Wonder how many of these protests are organized by Russian operatives attempting to cause division? Seems "progressives" and Russians share a goal in that regard.
2
The demonstrators made their point long ago now its time to actually help st louis become a safe place to demonstrate by demonstrating against the daily shootings that now take place anywhere at anytime throughout st louis. The victims and their family's still expect police to find and arrest the shooters butthe demonstrators would rather have the police watching them as they disrupt life
4
I saved this article from the St. Louis Dispatch. It left me speechless.
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/undercover-cop-air-f...
1
While Trump and his ilk keep painting Chicago as a Dystopian city, most miss the point that East St Louis is the most dangerous city in America.
1
Before posting knee-jerk, pro-police comments -- or disparaging remarks about protestors -- immerse yourself in the federal investigations of urban police forces. They thoroughly document *racist* patterns in arrests, mistreatment of minorities, and excessive use of force. Come back to us *after* you have learned about what is actually going on.
"Investigation of the Ferguson Police Department" https://www.justice.gov/sites/default/files/opa/press-releases/attachmen...
"Feds fault San Francisco police for violence against minorities and recommend 272 reforms" http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-san-francisco-police-bias-20...
"Justice Department Finds a Pattern of Civil Rights Violations by the Chicago Police Department" https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justice-department-announces-findings-inv...
"Report says Chicago police violated civil rights for years" https://www.usnews.com/news/us/articles/2017-01-13/doj-to-release-report...
3
Good for the people of St Louis getting off their hind ends and protesting the oppressive White business and police environment. I just read Jack Spanns account of living there. By my wifes story of visiting a non enlightened political Missouri one an only imagine the challenges!People were afraid to admit they were liberal for fear of losing their jobs.Only through bent knee and constant reminders can we get the message of oppression through. Horray!
2
People in Missouri have has a dim view of visiting downtown St. Louis for 30 years. The crime rate is too scary. The only reason to go down there would be to see the cardinals
1
I lived in Saint Louis for 35 years before moving to New York. The police there are out of control. Most of the time, in most neighborhoods, there is simply no place for young folks to gather, so they gather on the streets, where they are easy targets for police. There are so many tiny communities, each has their own court system and police dept, and the vast majority of the black middle class has disappeared, along with white people, who have mostly moved to suburbs, after industries died. Public transportation, while available, is very limited. Saint Louis' main asset, the Mississippi River, is mostly closed off to the public, choked off by polluting industries. The school system in the city itself is a crumbling mess, someone could correct me, but I do not remember one new school being built, ever.
With poor education, poor infrastructure, nothing to do, no jobs (or only fast food jobs in dangerous areas), very loose gun laws (concealed carry laws are in force, people commonly holster guns), a police force and court system that is mostly white while the population is black, and close to three hundred gun murders per year, no wonder the young population of Saint Louis rally and protest every night.
3
This forced the police to use chemical substances (non-deadly) when the protesters wouldn't stop their actions and move out of the residential area.
The author likewise dismisses another protest late in the article when he refers to the "questionable" arrests that were made. He dismisses the illegal acts of the protesters by saying protesters were "swept up", failing to put into context that their arrests happened as a direct result of another night of widespread vandalism and after they had all been given multiple orders and opportunities to leave the area.
It's unclear if the reporter visited the area or spoke with anyone other than a protester about what happened those nights, but that's what the article suggests.
4
People outside of St. Louis do not understand the policing dynamic here. I am from St. Louis County, lived in NYC for 27 years and am now back living in St. Louis City. Imagine if you will that Manhattan is its own entity and the other boroughs formed a separate entity. Imagine also if the people from Westchester, Long Island and New Jersey went primarily into the Bronx, Queens and Brooklyn for work. Imagine then that those boroughs did not have to share their tax revenue with Manhattan. Finally, imagine that Astoria, Rego Park, Forest Hills, Brooklyn Heights, Park Slope, Riverdale et. al EACH had their own police departments. There is no training standard for metro area police. It also means that the police forces here can be infiltrated by a small percentage of the racist element that is not flushed out by their fellow officers because of the Thin Blue Line. Finally, imagine being poor and black, pulled over for a minor traffic offense, thrown in jail because you can't pay, then lose your minimum wage job because you've been in jail for three days. Oh, and you still owe the fine for the ticket plus fees AFTER your jail time. This is the major reason for the outrage. They system is corrupt and the protesters are trying to draw attention to it. I am not in favor of violence or vandalism, but I've witnessed much worse damage in other cities when celebrating after their teams have won the World Series or Superbowl. A little perspective is needed on all sides.
7
If the police want a pay raise they should be awarded it, but in a different way. The raise should be dependent upon police officers arresting and testifying against other police officers. For every officer they arrest and testify against the police department is awarded an amount equal to the jailed officers annual salary to distribute amongst the other officers. The department still gets the arrested officers base salary to hire a replacement.
2
Too many communities have such a large criminal element that there is inherent antagonism towards police.
Why are there no protests in these communities against violence by criminals?
There are more than 17,000 homicides in the U.S. yearly.
6
These *are* protests against criminals -- criminals who hide their crimes behind blue uniforms, and who are abetted by the solidarity of their tribe.
4
This may be slightly off-topic, but the underlying idea that the disruption of economic activity is the only thing that might bring a measure of justice or change says a great deal about the state of American society.
8
As long as there are no serious efforts to evaluate the attitudes and personality traits of people seeking police jobs, the status quo will not change. Give some people a uniform, badge, and a gun and their worst traits seem to materialize.
5
You can’t eat attention. You can’t be educated by attention. Protest and criticism is not change. It is asking for someone else to do the work. I fear this makes for media, but does not really help the citizens.
7
How you treat regular citizens separates the police from the goons
6
Sounds like it's time to clear the streets. Your freedom ends when you encroach upon mine. The police refer to it as hats and bats. Repeat offenders should have restraining orders barring them from blocking the roadways. Time to get tough.
13
Humans are social animals, and the nature of society is compromise. What you describe is the fast track to chaos.
3
Police need to be included with the "offenders"
They need to discipline rogue officers.
4
People in the US have a right to protest in general, and they have a right to protest murderous cops specifically, even if protesting causes you inconvenience. Stay in Mexico where you are, please.
2
I look at a group of people oppressed by the police and think, isnt this EXACTLY why we have the first and second amendments?
I think everyone can agree that the first amendmenr is a powerful tool for an oppressed community. However, Ive also read in this newspaper that we need to repeal the second amendment.
The Black Panthers may have ended ingloriously, but it began on the premise that black men with guns needed to monitor and police the police. Back then, the police were even more racist and violent than today, we just dont seem to realize that. The police and FBI were able to defeat the Black Panthers, but today the power of social media could allow black men and women to accomplish what the Panthers could not.
White people love guns because it gives us power. Black people have historically been oppressed by white people with guns. Black people could use guns to gain power. They wouldnt have to shooy anyone, and in fact would not want to. They just do what the Zapatistas did and the Panthera tried to do. Form community protection patrols and monitor the police peacefully with rifles ready. Spread injustices on social media and equalize the power dynamic.
Its not very liberal friendly. But it will work and ideally not a shot is fired. It probably wont happen ideally, but then again how many black people were shot and killed last year with guns? And how many times was a cop holding that gun?
The second amendment is not just a relic. It is relevant today.
5
Are you a writer for The Onion?! If not, you should be!
Well done satire!
1
"Peaceful" protests. Maybe they shouldn't read so many of your articles.
7
I grew up in St.Louis County. One of my first jobs was with the County Council. When I first heard of Michael Brown's death, I thought not racism of poor training and control. A major problem in metro St. Louis--surely not the only one--is fragmentation of governments. There are more than 90 municipalities in St. Louis County, which does not include St. Louis. There are some 60 police departments in the County. How do you keep them well-organized?
St. Louis is not unique. The US has around 19,000 police departments. Germany, a federal country with 16 states and some 80 million people, has 19. Each year the US has around 1000 people killed by police; Germany has ten or fewer. Better organization is not the only reason for such disparity, but it is contributing one.
15
I read this piece carefully and am of course familiar with events in the St. Louis area. My opinion is that the police chief does indeed need to be replaced, and that as much of the police force as possible needs to be carefully retrained on when and how to use non-lethal tactics, if at all. Taking down the wrong people, shooting pellets at patrons of stores , if all true, make the police look like neanderthals. Police can do far better than this, and be far more effective. Poor leadership and resource deployement seem to exist now.
On the flip side, protesters/demonstrators who engage in violent and abusive tactics on any level, need to be recorded, identified, and publicly listed so that any and all future employers can make rational hiring decisions. Eventually, all the un-civil stuff that goes on in the streets and college campuses needs to be replaced with far more civil and productive action and dialog. If you want to achieve something in life, be smarter and learn to listen, and then act carefully. That goes for all parties.
9
I was raised in West St. Louis County in the 60s and 70s and attended college and medical school in St. Louis. I still see Facebook posts from high school classmates who remain in St. Louis County and I return there often to see family.
When I lived in St. Louis, segregation was definitely extensive and affluent white families had left the city. Yet, I don't recall the overt racism that seems to exist now. This worsened in the 1980s when legal decisions prompted school desegregation via busing between the city and the county.
Bigoted Facebook posts and chain emails increased with the election of President Obama and escalated even further with the most recent Presidential campaign/election. Amazingly, many of those who perpetrate this hatred would describe themselves as highly observant Christians, in stark contrast to the message of love that Jesus tried to convey.
I'm also horrified at the way in which people who I knew as decent caring empathetic individuals seem to have morphed into hateful beings. I really don't believe that they were always this way and that I just didn't see it. I think that peer-pressure, group think, and spread of fear-generating lies have fueled this hatred about other races, religions and sexual orientations to higher and higher levels.
It makes me quite sad. There is much to like about the area: Washington University is superb and I love Forest Park and the Zoo. But I could never return to St. Louis and live in such a culture.
20
"Amazingly, many of those who perpetrate this hatred would describe themselves as highly observant Christians, in stark contrast to the message of love that Jesus tried to convey. " Perhaps you are thinking of the Rev Jeremiah Wright and those who attended his sermons?
Police refuse to listen to civilian demands for change. Police exert their authority over society and civic leaders. It is not right and must change. What does it take to get real change? Civil disorder?
11
You should be a police officer for a day.
2
I hope that Chris Sommers is satisfied when his businesses go under, with the rest of the city, thanks to his buddies.
14
Good for the protesters - it is not enough to make a fuss after a major civil rights violation then go home - that is precisely why nothing changes, esp with entrenched centuries-old attitudes.
As a parallel, women have continued speaking up, since the Weinstein revelations; the Women's March was not enough
Now that a few weeks have passed since the Las Vegas shootings, people have already forgotten about gun violence and gun control - until the next outbreak - which exactly what the NRA and its supporters count on - collective amnesia or fatigue
15
"Major civil rights violation?" What do you mean by that? Mr. Smith was a heroin dealer who led police on a high-speed chase. The cop who shot him was put on trial. A respected jurist with no hint of racism in his career rightly acquitted the officer because there was insufficient evidence. Although not required to do so, the judge issued a written finding, taking 30 pages to explain the case and his decision in the apparent hope of keeping the city calm. By all appearances, some folks would rather shout than read.
All of this could have been avoided if prosecutors had done the right thing and not filed charges when any fool could see that they couldn't win. Charging someone with a crime when you know you can't win is the only civil rights violation I see here. Instead of explaining the case to the public, the prosecutor took the coward's way out and dumped it on a judge.
It also could have been avoided if Mr. Smith had not decided to sell heroin. That's a high risk occupation. To coin a phrase, he knew what he signed up for.
27
Being murdered is a civil rights abuse of the first order. I challenge you to examine the court proceedings and attempt to square the verdict.
Shockley walks free today because of incompetence, bias or corruption, and I'm not simply talking about judges here, but enablers and accomplices like the people posting here. The foolish attitudes seem like a time warp, but no, it's just the racist attitudes and fascist reflexes have never gone away.
That's why it is so important the NYT step into the breach and expose the incompetence, bias, corruption and criminal repression of the police and the magistrates who cover for them. It's not the '50s anymore and literally the whole world is watching you, August, in real time.
2
Smith's conviction, as I understand it, was for weed. The rest is part of the garbage to justify murder.
I’m a white liberal mother of a Saint Louis city cop. He was called to my neighborhood to try to keep the recent protests (against the cops) safe and peaceful. Protestors, including a large proportion of white liberals, threw bricks at my son. Ten cops went to the hospital. We white liberals need to do some soul-searching. What are we doing, blaming this whole horrible outcome of years of racism on the cops? Trying to offload our white guilt onto the cops? We need to “own” our guilt for participating in a racist society and take some constructive action. Get involved politically. Fight poverty. Find out what people of color are telling us and do something about it. Take a class on racism in America. We need to consider that our guilt is about our personal collusion with racism and white privilege. Throwing bricks at cops and criticizing them for doing our dirty work in high crime areas will never alleviate the white guilt we feel.
49
And supporting cops doing white folks dirty work doesn't help either - in fact it is really boiling down to folks who recognize the racism and those who still think the emperor is wearing a nice suit.
1
Kylie, feel for what your son went through.
But do not excuse police brutality and excessive use of force. Yes, deep-seated racism and savage inequalities in the society need to be addressed. But that college class on racism in America that you want us to take will teach *you* that the police reflect that societal racism, that their training is in use of force and viewing the residents as the "enemy", that they are not taught de-escalation techniques, that the police have been militarized with high-grade military equipment, and that there are not just a few bad apples in the police force but that there is a deep-seated culture of violence, intimidation, and oppression.
You'd also learn that community policing, which forged bonds and lead to deeper understanding and respect on both sides, has been largely abandoned.
By the way, re-read your own comment! You have the *entire* group of protesters -- along with white liberals -- ALL throwing bricks at your son and his fellow policemen. That's hyperbole!
While I'm an advocate of non-violent demonstrations, we also need to contrast some bricks being thrown and some injuries -- as bad as that is -- with years of police beatings, shootings, and killings of minority community members.
And the supposed "fact based" impartial media bends over backwards to paint these confused, misguided mobs as peaceful, righteous protestors ... and then spends the rest of it's time trying to comprehend how Trump got elected. Like it's really hard to understated.
35
We stayed in St Louis, Mo on a cross country summer road trip across the US after the police killed Michael Brown in Ferguson.
What struck me about this big city, St Louis, is that it felt empty and barren on the streets and lacked the buzz and culturally vibrant atmosphere of other similarly sized cities around the world. Months before, we had unknowingly booked our hotel in a planned and sanitized area of St Louis that turned out to feel "gated". It was a distinctly curious environment where white people had the "front of house" jobs, no diversity in sight. We had visited Grant's House towards the end of the long hot summer day we arrived to check in, anxious to get to the pool for a long refreshing swim. We found it "removed", deliberately closed down that week to make way for a Spa.
I specifically chose that hotel for the pool.
Management was incurious about why their guests would stay with them, and made no effort to email and inform us that they planned to remove the pool at the height of the hot summer swimming season.
Spa services generate much revenue for hotels, but pools generate mingling where
guests are at their most relaxed and would otherwise not encounter each other.
St Louis could use more mingling and less
segregation.
The St Louis Art Museum was good,
but my lasting impression of St Louis was
the one I came away with from that hotel.
I have no plans to EVER stay with that hotel chain again, but I wish St Louis becomes the city it should be.
14
The reason St. Louis and (and many other US cities) are empty is that most people prefer to feel safe, and so they move away from crime ridden areas.
17
St. Louis is a poor and violent city. Its population has dropped steadily from almost 1 million 50 years ago to 300,000 today. Much of the population drop is due to white flight. A city that was once mostly white is now mostly black. City revenues have dried up. All the money and all the whites are entrenched in the county. St. Louis is Detroit's little brother. These are the causes of the problem. Blaming the police or the demonstrators totally misses the point.
41
Well, this piece convinced me St. Louis is not some place I would care to go to.
19
Talk about media bias. The gaping omissions in this article are big enough to drive a truck through! Some basic FACTS that got left out:
• Anthony Lamar Smith, for whom the protests were started, was a career criminal and convicted heroin dealer who tried to run police down with his car, sped through city streets at 80+ MPH, and very likely tried to pull a gun while he was resisting arrest.
• The protests have included vandalism of numerous businesses, trespassing on private property, vandalism of the mayor's home, harassment of innocent bystanders, blocking of streets & highways, smashing police car windows, and throwing bricks, rocks, concrete and urine at police officers (some of whom have been injured).
• The photo of the "elderly black woman" with the police officer grabbing her throat was preceded by another of photo of the same woman, age 56, jumping on the back of a police officer as she tried to interfere with a lawful arrest. She is facing felony assault charges.
• The Air Force lieutenant who was "swept up" during a mass arrest has since been found to be a protestor himself. There are photos & video showing him and his wife purposely injecting themselves into an area where police had already called for disbursement.
Of course, that's not to say that police reforms aren't needed or that further policy discussions shouldn't be had. But the people reading articles like this should at least get the full truth of what is happening here.
62
Thanks for pointing out what some people miss. The media has a narrative they want to promote. So when you read an article like this, you have to keep that in mind. Honest journalism seems to have gone the way rotary phone and the 8 track tape.
5
Since the Shockley incident occurred, there have been over 1000 black men killed by other black men in St. Louis. Every year the vast majority (over 95%) of the shooting in St. Louis our black men by other black men. The dug dealer that was shot was a violent criminals and bares responsibility for much of the violence that has plagued the city. Like many cities, St. Louis is one of contrast with the vast majority of people going about their business, and St. Louis ha s a lot to offer. But all of these things are being jeopardized by a small group of people who prey on everyone else. This small group of people is being supported by a very small group of violent protesters and an ignorant media. The police are not our problem in St. Louis.
37
Yes, black on black crime is very high. As is white on white crime- most white people are killed by other whites people. But white people are to systematically targeted by the organisations created to protect and serve them.
4
Your comment isn't supported out by the data. Crimes tend to be committed by the people around us - within our own communities. We live in a fairly segregated society. There's as much white on white crime as black on black crime. You are propagating a dangerous myth. To continue to do so after knowing the facts is a racist act. Please stop.
11
Uninformed accusations of racism, built on unfounded assertions, are reprehensible.
6
I grew up in St. Louis, left in l957 to go East to college and never really went back except to visit.
When I was about 12 years old, I was waiting for my parents while they conversed with a white official of the City of St. Louis.
They were talking about "colored" neighborhoods. The city was completely segregated at that time. The only black folk I ever saw were servants coming or going to work in white folks houses.
I was shocked to hear this official say this about "colored" neighborhoods:
"We don't send the police in there. We don't care if they kill each other."
Those are his exact words remembered for over 60 years.
The city was racist then and apparently is still racist. There was no public safety for African Americans then and none now.
All the citizens of St. Louis and its suburbs need to think carefully about their beliefs and about their fears.
25
Now that's the St. Louis I remember! And I'm white -- and had lots of Irish relatives on the police force. Isn't New England grand?
9
My best friend was black when I was a teenager in St. Louis. That only happened because I was a poor white who had lived in the only integrated area of St. Louis -- the housing projects.
(Cheers to anyone who still still lives in Clinton-Peabody! Does it still exist?)
St. Louis was a concealed outpost of the ante-bellum South. Good luck to its Mayor, Lydia Krewson. She is doomed. I'd be glad to tell her some anecdotes about her predecessors Bernie Dickman and Ray Tucker ... which I'm sure she would resign if she could hear!
9
Sounds like “black on black crime” is an older red herring than we realized.
The "peaceful" protesters blocked an interstate, broke windows and battered businesses in The Loop area of University City, threw bricks at St. Louis City Police, broke windows and threatened the safety of Mayor Krewson's home, and have never stopped hurling unprintable insults at police.
Perhaps your journalists and your editorial board, and the protesters, should read the judge's decision before reacting. It was a clear exoneration of Officer Stockley and it was written by a well-respected member of the St. Louis Judiciary who has support from all sides. The heroin dealer who was killed had a long record of dealing and arrests. Apparently, the judge's decision and the history of lawlessness by the perpetrator is not enough to satisfy the race-baiting ugliness of the left.
If this weren't enough, our disgraceful Board of Aldermen chose to unanimously honor the heroin dealer with a posthumous proclamation for the dealer (and a nice big hug for the Mom from Mayor Krewson) and refused to give the same honor to our police force.
As for Chris Sommers, he has lost a great deal of respect in this City, despite making a pretty good pizza.
37
Once, again, as so often before, the protesters are mindlessly destroying their own neighborhoods. Good luck opening businesses and bringing in jobs!
22
Uh, these protests are happening all over St. Louis, mostly in places where the middle class and well-off work, shop and live. There has been little property damage.
Please educate yourself.
7
I grew up in Washington, DC and moved to attend St. Louis University in 1971. I had been to massive anti-war demonstrations in D.C. and never felt threatened by the police in D.C.
The St. Louis I experienced was was a wake up call. I had attended desegregated schools in Maryland but in St. Louis the schools were still completely segregated when i left in 1979. I spent one year teaching English at Sumner High in 1977 and it was all black then.
As a white man, moving through white society in St. Louis, I was let in on the dirty secret of continuous police brutality against blacks, which was welcomed and encouraged by the white majority.
St. Louis in the 70's had a City Hospital for Whites, City Hospital #1. It was newer, better equipped compared to City Hospital #2, Homer G. Phillips hospital.
I marched in my first civil rights protest in St. Louis in 1971. The police were holding a civil rights activist at the black hospital, under armed guard and had him chained to the bed. When we arrived at the hospital, we were peaceful and our group included local nuns and priests from St. Louis Univ. We were not outside agitators but the police were brutal with german shepherds biting protestors just like I knew they did in Alabama.
St. Louis was a great town that got stuck thinking it was 1904 and Judy Garland was singing at their World's Fair. It's never too late St. Louis.
7
I left St. Louis in the 1960's. Sorry to hear it was still the same in the 1970's. But, I respectfully disagree ... it is too late for St. Louis. Montomery AL has a better chance of moving into the future than a place like St. Louis which cannot bring itself to recognize the vomitrocious truth of its past.
Now that I am old, my memories of summer swims at a pool owned by the John Brown family are the only relief from awareness of that god-awful truth. We are always too young to realize how close we live to the past -- which will becomes our own legacy unless we disavow what was wrong about it.
6
Can all of you who left St. Louis DECADES AGO please just stop!? You have zero knowledge of what the community is like today and you're doing a great disservice to those of us who actually live here and work tirelessly to improve it.
If you want to keep name-dropping Ferguson (my hometown from 1999-2014), why don't you move back and put your money where your mouth is? The idea that ANYWHERE in the United States is exactly the same in race relations as it was 40+ years ago is frankly absurd.
17
St. Louis' economy is already on its knees. Kicking it in the teeth is hardly a great or noble achievement. This is the equivalent of beating up an old man who lives next door in response to your bosses disrespectful treatment of you. It's cowardice, not principle.
20
So your argument is that the REAL victims are white shop owners? Hmm...
4
In other words, you don't think white murder and robbery victims matter.
2
So your argument is that shop owners aren't victims? or ar just bad people who should be punished? or that you hate their whiteness?
8
I say the police department should take a 1 month leave of absence and let the dice roll where they may....lets call it an experiment in human nature.
20
Alas, if you read the article carefully -- and other stories like it -- that's what the police have done in some places! Yes, they essentially abandoned their sworn duty to serve and protect!
They were forced to stop that.
It's a heartless, cruel response by the police to their heartless, cruel pattern of mistreatment of community residents.
1
No they should do their jobs and uphold the country’s laws instead of behaving like a gang of thugs.
Public law and order take first place. Protests, in order to be effective, must work within this framework. No one wants people destroying their homes and businesses.
18
I suspect that until a federal consent decree is signed and in force, there will be no improvement. St. Louis has a cultural policing problem (as do many other large cities) and until that bad leadership is replaced and a new "authority" is established--that authority being respect for the rule of law--there will be little improvement.
5
St Louis does indeed have a cultural problem. A culture of violence and irresponsibility.
5
You think Jeff Sessions is going to go after the St. Louis PD?
2
Have you looked up the word "stereotype" recently?!
Or, "hyperbole"?!
St. Louis does NOT have one culture, but many. Nor is crime the province of any single group or culture. St. Louis, which is a city, cannot have a "culture", in any event.
You are casting aspersions upon an entire city, its diverse people, and its hard-working, tax-paying, law-abiding residents.
No matter the level of crime, the pattern of racist, violent policing in many urban areas, with an excessive use of force against minorities, has been well-documented.
You may not want to see it, but it's a reality nonetheless!
After living in St Louis for many years and seeing the institutional racism day in and day out, it’s unfortunate it’s taken many deaths for the nation to see it too. But they do see it now. A good start would be electing people who will pursue racial justice and replace those who have benefited from the racism. Start with the St Louis County prosecutor,
Robert P. McCulloch who is certainly part of the problem. This needs to be done locally as well as state-wide. It won’t be easy and it won’t happen overnight, but this is the time to start and stay the course.
15
Lets be clear on the lies being told by protesters. The police were very clear about getting off the streets and told people to clear the area repeatedly. The protesters had turned violent breaking numerous windows and damaging property on the street at which point the police stepped in and started arresting people. Almost none of the protesters arrested were local and with the situation as it was you would have had to be completely lacking in common sense to be on the street, or you had an agenda.
These protesters were there to cause trouble and most of the residents were grateful that they acted to stem the violence when they did, through you will not hear this from the local media. Most of the St. Louis community does not support this small group of protesters (often less then a couple of dozen people).
38
Still worried about those real estate values I guess. there's nothing the this person with most inappropriate user name (not tough enough to use their REAL name) can't blame on the black community, especially when they try top speak out. Keep trying to tell The Truth.
5
Easy to be flippant when it’s not your property being destroyed.
10
Easy to be glib when it's not your family members or neighbors who are being harassed by the police, unfairly arrested, wantonly brutalized, and killed.
The social contract includes accepting the verdict of the courts. Acquittals cannot be appealed---that would be double jeopardy. Perhaps the system is biased in favor of defendants; better to acquit the guilty than to convict the innocent. If the prosecution's case is not proved "beyond a reasonable doubt", acquit. That used to be considered a liberal principle.
This is the lynch mob mentality: A crime is alleged, the accused must be punished without the uncertainties of the legal system.
The peaceful protests have been accompanied by hoodlums wreaking unreasoned destruction. In the suburb of University City (where one of the Pi Pizza restaurants is located), dozens of plate glass windows were smashed after one of the demonstrations. These all belonged to small businesses with limited resources for repair. If insured, insurance rates will increase or coverage will become unavailable.
34
The protesters are not asking for a new appeal on the Stockley verdict. They are protesting a case being decided by a judge who felt that the overwhelming evidence that suggests that Stockley planted a gun (video of him rummaging through his bag, an empty gun bag found in his bag, his taking off of his gloves before digging through the suspect's car, the fact that the weapon only had Stockley's fingerprints on it) was not as compelling as the judge's own feelings that, gee, well, doesn't it seem likely that an urban drug dealer would have a weapon?
The social contract only works if there is trust in the justice system. The police in St Louis erode that trust by protecting officers like Jason Stockley. So do the courts when a judge says there is no evidence to support the idea that the gun was the victim's, but hey, he was a black drug dealer so I think it probably was.
Finally, I would just point out that there have been daily protests since the Stockley verdicts, and no damage has been done to businesses since the initial three days.
8
The "social contract" also includes reform of institutions that produce systemic injustice. When the reform is always promised and never materializes, what do you think should happen?
10
Your attitude is the reason that violence is the only resolution. And then, as in the Revolution, all will be well.
lnsurance rates are actually not the issue. In fact, you should be ashamed for suggesting such a thing.
5
I do not understand that if the Chief of Police is unwilling to change and punish uncivil behavior in his own ranks ,WHY DOES HE STILL HAVE A JOB? Law enforcement is only getting worse under the fascist Trump reign egged on by his Russian overlords who are looking to create a race war here. The real criminals are at Facebook and Twitter and in the GOP and the NRA. Time is running out on something being done . OBAMA, BUSH, CLINTON, TIME TO SPEAK UP.
14
The first two spoke yesterday. Maybe the will help more.
Police can be our best friends and also our worst enemies. The high stress of the job, coupled with the enormous power they wield on the street, is a recipe ripe for abuse. Unfortunately, people are hired who are not up to the task and training lacks. The City of Chicago has spent half a billion dollars due to bad cops, mostly white and who mostly abused blacks. Had a small percentage of that money bee spent to ensure better recruits and better training the city would be much better off. Until police unions accept that they need to take ownership of this debacle and more money spent on training we won't see improvement.
13
What about if thugs and criminals "took ownership" of the harm they do to their victims and entire communities? Why does no one ever suggest that?
9
me: Because they are thugs and criminals. What on earth does your question have to do with the police attacking regular black civilians?
25 y/o I was livng in Chesterfield, MO, a suburb of STL. It was around 10:00 p.m. on a Friday night the phone rang and my husband answered. The caller was law enforcement, but I don't remember if the officer was a county law officer or a Chesterfield law officer. The officer said something like "I just gave your son a speeding ticket for driving 90 mph on Hwy 40. When I saw from your son's driver's license that he lived in Chesterfield, I thought you would be the kind of parents who would want to know." While, we appreciated the call, I was furious at the assumption/implication that if we lived in Ferguson, Normandy, Jennings, Dellwood, Kinloch, Pine Lawn, etc. we couldn't have gotten/deserved a call from the officer. I can't help but wonder, if our son had been Black, would he have been killed that night?
16
I was taken aback that instead of thanking the officer and being mad at your reckless kid, you went the other way around in an instance where the police were trying to be helpful.
25
Killed? By driving too fast or by having the police kill him? Really?
10
Did you see her point or are just ignoring it? That she got the call because of the perception given to her community, but if her address was in a black/ poor community she would not have been given that same respect.
8
Elections have consequences. Keep doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different out come is the definition of insanity.
3
A few thoughts that may be relevant.
Of course, every incident of misbehavior is one too many, but other jurisdictions might look at the New York City police department.
NYPD looks for college grads. I don't know if college changes people, or merely being willing to sit through the classes selects out some people, but NYPD recruits are different.
The NYPD has extensive psychological examinations to weed out those who may be unsuited to the job.
The head of the NYPD is a civilian, not a police officer (although recent commissioners have come up through the ranks).
The NYPD has serious supervision. Nearly half of the department consists of supervisors and discipline can be harsh on a precinct commander (captain or deputy inspector) who permits bad behavior. There are probably 100 (or more) chiefs who serve at the commissioner's pleasure.
There is a "use of force" unit headed by ranking management, that reviews officers' use of force. "I was in fear of my life", the textbook excuse, had better be backed up by facts -- and the Patrol Guide which discourages use of force except as a last resort.
In New York, where everyone is within 19 feet of someone, police don't shoot a person because s/he is within 19 feet of them.
22
It’s great that they’re trained not to shoot in crowded situations. Can they also be trained to not choke to death unarmed men who are not resisting them?
3
It is a rare occurrence, and a violation of the Patrol Guide. And there are consequences.
Even when an officer's use of force IS within Department guidelines, it is reviewed to determine if the guidelines should be changed / adjusted.
No group of 35,000 people is perfect, but there are far fewer incidents per capita in New York than almost any other place in the country.
And, despite the high level of supervision and oversight (or because of it) police do their jobs and have made New York the safest big city in the country with a daytime population of 10 - 12 million and a nighttime population of over 8.5 million.
3
As a New Yorker, your comment fails to include the systemic incidents of police violence. To cite a contemporary example, the death of Eric Garner due to an illegal chokehold is sufficient evidence that police training is ineffective when policy is not upheld. Additionally, NYPD have been charged and/or accused of alleged drug-dealing, drunk driving, engaging in prostitution and domestic violence. Abner Louima, Amadou Diallo, Sean Bell, Ramarley Graham, and many others represent a long list of victims of alleged police brutality. The NYPD role in brothels, drug-dealing, double-dipping with the Mafia, rape,and ticket fixing demonstrates that the force continues to fail at professionalism, accountability, and adherence to the law.
Your story starts out implying Chris was possibly a conservative who switched sides. But in the interest of truth, he was such a big supporter of President Obama’s back in 2008, that he and his pizza cooks were invited to make pizza for the first family in the White House kitchen. In other words, he’s has leaned to the left for a long time. So “choosing sides” was not agonizing for him.
15
No, the story implies (or, perhaps, just "says") that Chris supported both the police and the protesters. Support for the police is not a uniquely conservative attribute.
3
True, but I follow Chris on twitter. His tweets were always in support of the protests. So I’m not sure he was just the unbiased nube at the start of this that the NYT author wants us to believe. But I’m sure he would prefer that the police and everyone do their protesting and policing without violence as we all do to protect his businesses. Which the police have been doing until a protester smashes a window. The we expect the police to separate out the non complying peaceful protesters in a crowd from the non-complying rioters one by one. If it is that easy, then NYT should just tell us the names of the violence policemen one by one and not accuse the ones protecting us lawfully.
1
St. Louis has the fourth highest homicide rate in the nation; car theft is near the top of the list also. Reduce the crime rate, get the city under control and police will be less tense on the street. When crime, especially violent crime, is rampant, expect LE to be on edge. Why wouldn't they be? Everyone else in the city is.
37
Just an FYI. St. Louis numbers are skewed because no suburbs are included in these calculations. If the crime rate included even the inner suburbs (which happens in the calculations for most cities) the crime rates would be much lower on a per capita basis. But I grant you, any crime is unacceptable.
7
"City" rankings look bad for St. Louis because the city limits are the inner 1/10 of the metro, and it is where nearly all the crime is. In full metro rankings, St. Louis ranks in the middle or better. And St. Louis suburbs rank as nearly the safest, unlike many Western metros.
https://nextstl.com/2017/10/crime-vs-home-prices-50-largest-metros/
3
That applies only inside the city limits. St. Louis Metro isn't even in the top 50.
2
I wonder where this protest is going. Attention is not the goal. Jail a police officer is not the end point. What are the concrete agenda items and policy changes these protesters are proposing? Sure, improve police training and standardized their protocols. But the fact is these policemen and women are working in a city close to the top of the murder rate, and they make mistakes sometimes. Changes have to come from both sides including the protesters’. They need to strengthen their families and communities, clean up their streets, cooperate with the police (with constructive feedbacks), and help their kids graduate from schools... so get back to work, there’s a lot to accomplish one step at a time.
39
Wow ... do you have any idea that you're as so backward to others (such as myself) as those you've just maligned?
1
@St. Louis
I think the main agenda item is to stop the police from murdering black people.
6
Please compare the number of people (of all races) murdered by African Americans in any given year to the number murdered by police (957 in 2016). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_crime_in_the_United_States
2
I am a white St. Louis native who grew up in Ferguson and the immediate surrounding area. I've made the California my home for 34 years to escape the the mentality of the midwest and St. Louis' white population. That St. Louis raised racial discrimination in housing to a fine art is well documented and had, by itself, become a body of academic study. Unfortunately this is a situation nearly as intractable as peace in the Middle East. Only prolonged countrywide intervention by outside authorities will ever change the city and county is significant ways. The fact St. Louis' black police officers have a separate union from white officers should tell you all you need to know.
135
In New York every major ethnic group has its own police union. It only means that people are more comfortable with people with whom they have much in common.
4
rdscally: first of all you've been gone for a long time, so you can't speak on what's going on NOW in St. Louis. Is there racism? Probably, but I would argue that racism exists everywhere. Don't forget that every story has two sides, but right now the only side that is being published and heard is that of the "protesters".
Second, there is no "white" officer union. The St. Louis Police Officers Association is all-inclusive. It is represented by more officers than any other union, including many minority officers.
13
Strange how everyone grew up in Ferguson because that seems to be a buzz word that everyone understands so that they can push a racist agenda.
2
My wife and I own a loft in downtown St. Louis, a block away from where the arrests took place in September. We spent a night concerned that the protesters violence would continue to get out of hand and our property and safety were at risk. We believe that the police acted responsibly and correctly to arrest protesters who were there to cause trouble after being repeatedly told to clear the area. We could hear the demands through our closed windows any only someone completely lacking in common sense, or someone looking for trouble would have been on the streets at the time of these arrests.
The NYT's needs to dig deeper and not just repeat the untrue narrative being pout out by the St. Louis media and protesters. There have been real people injured as a result of these often violent protests over a convicted drug dealer. Meanwhile the black on black homicide rate continues to skyrocket.
54
You sound exactly like the people who -- in Alabama in the 1960's -- complained about "outside agitators" stirring up race relations in a community where whites and blacks had living happily alongside each other.
Which is to say ... exactly like white St. Louisans sounded in the 1960's.
9
Just another typical St. Louis attitude. No matter what the protestors did this person would be most concerned with real estate values.
7
The question is not, were people looking for trouble, but did the police officers, who are sworn to uphold the law, obey it.
5
I spent my 1st 18 years in Ferguson. Then went to college at the University of Missouri St Louis, and left a few years after graduation. St Louis has always been a hotbed of racism. But it long kept it under wraps. St Louis did not burn in the 60’s. It did not reform. It did nothing. But it did decline. From 850,000 residents to 315,000 residents. Now it has an opportunity to do something. But I will only believe it when I see it. Remember, this City was desperate to spend a billion dollars to keep a losing NFL team the same year it ignored most recommendations made by the Ferguson Commission.
http://3680or2khmk3bzkp33juiea1.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploa...
A football team that plays 8-10 games a year...worth a billion dollars.
A set of recommendations that improve the St Louis economy and the lives of tens-of-thousands of its residents? Not so much...
80
Wrong. A Federal judge just lauded the progress on the Ferguson consent decree. Ferguson now has an African American Police Chief, and most officials are also African American, but still need to continue progress toward full implementation of the decree. You need to update your research. Read these 2 stories.
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/federal-judge-lauds-...
http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-0225-ferguson-black-20160225-story.html
2
Too many police see themselves as military. There are too many ex military in the police force. They need more imagination and brain power and less muscle. Overall, I see way too much backward thinking.
34
There's nothing new about the kind of unconscionable police behavior reported here - police using violence against people who are not violent or threatening anyone with violence, especially people who are members of minority groups. It's been going on all my life. What's new is the use of social media to publicize incidents that the corporate media and most politicians and business leaders have long chosen to ignore. Thanks to social media, people affected by these atrocities don't have to beg the corporate media to cover them. That's a good thing.
14
As a native St. Louisan, the inequality hurts deeply. I have been in NY for two years now for college, and the intermeshing of race so common to New York is a source of division in Missouri. It is sad to see the established racial undertones of the civil war still penetrate into Missouri culture and thwart real societal progress.
70
Good to hear that NY is good again after the Eric Garner chokehold incident.
Then when you graduate, you need to return to St Louis and be a catalyst for racial change in the city. One person can do amazing things.
1
Go St. Louis protestors! St Louis was a horrifically segregated city when I (white) grew up there in the 50's and 60's.
It will never be a truly modern American city until it extirpates its Deep South roots in slavery. Its aristocratic former resident, Robert E. Lee, has never seriously overshadowed its other famous historical residents, Grant and Sherman.
23
In 1861 St. Louis was firmly anti-slavery and pro-Union.
Lee was a Virginian, not a St. Louisan.
4
Lee was stationed in St. Louis in the 1850's. In 1861, St. Louis was the site of the very first violence of the Civil War. Crowds on the streets (pro-Southern) attacked federal troops on Olive Street in the center of the city. Grant's Farm, the home of a US President, on Gravois Rd, remains pretty obscure.
Like me, you apparently were raised in St. Louis, and had no idea of your own history.
I was raised in St. Louis. I believe Mr. Katz is correct: St. Louis was anti-slavery and pro-Union. German Americans like to remember how their ancestors in St Louis kept Missouri in the Union. Many were abolitionists.
2
This is an old pattern of oppression, resistance, and response. During the civil rights movement, it was southern white civic leaders that felt the pain and the embarrassment of unrest and oppression in the loss of business. Once they were affected, especially local businesses, they began to call on political leaders to change their ways.
The problem is that it took a long time and many hurt people to make even small progress. As Mr. Sommers shows, literally being in the line of fire seems necessary to bring awareness of what life with police is like for people of color.
In our Twitter-inflamed environment, our path to progress and healing is much more fraught today.
8
It is sad to watch a major American city committing suicide.
It is also sad to read articles in which the author feels compelled to identify the race of each interviewee in order to understand his or her comments.
It is the inevitable outcome of the toxic and divisive racial and ethnic identity politics fostered by one of our political parties.
One can only imagine what MLK would have thought of all this.
17
By both of our political parties.
5
I've already recounted in other comments aspects of my history in Saint Louis while in a relationship with a high-level university administrator. That afforded me a unique look into the white upper-class society of the region as we conducted fundraising for the university. And living in Downtown from 2003-10 placed me at a fast-evolving interface of both the white and black communities. I lived the reality firsthand as a white woman from elsewhere.
Like the Harvey Weinstein industry scandal engulfing New York and LA, it's down to people, people who know exactly what's going on but are too chicken, too sexist, or, in the case of Saint Louis, too racist to stand up for change. The scene of white people cheering pro-police speeches while remaining decidedly silent when police reforms are presented says it all. This is a racist, has-been city in decline, trapped in and perpetuating a 1944 MGM white-washed technicolor vision of itself and its history while Judy Garland sings from the grave.
Saint Louis deserves all the economic disruption it's getting and more. It does not deserve Amazon or anything handed to it until its white community hiding out in "The County" approaches its black community saying, "We hear you. We are truly sorry. Tell us more so we can better understand. How can we help? What about your schools? To whom should we write the check?" And most importantly, "How can we rebuild our community together?"
23
"To whom should we write the check?" Extortion.
4
This. All of this.
My time living in St. Louis for an academic fellowship during the Obama era removed any illusions I had that we lived in a post-racial America. The citizens of this region, generations deep, tied to the rich white suburbs of Ladue, Creve Coeur, Chesterfield, Des Peres, and Kirkwood, pass on their biases and overt racism like family heirlooms from generation to generation. They withdrew from the city generations ago, only claiming St. Louis when it comes to Budweiser, the Cardinals or the Blues, while not taking any ownership of their role in the city's death. It is a has-been city - these citizens often refer back to their glory days more than a hundred years ago when they hosted the World Fair and the Olympics. You know - during segregation. Nothing good has come there since.
4
LCF, You were in a relationship with a high level college administrator? Wow, that explains a lot!
2
The police can't win, and everybody looses in this case. The problem is not the protesters. The problem is the rampant increase in crime, across the city. The racially mixed neighborhoods in south Saint Louis have increases in home burglaries (I personally had this happen to my house three times), car break ins, muggings, and armed robberies. With cameras being cheap(er) these days, a lot of surveillance video is posted to "neighborhood social media", Like NextDoor. My unscientific estimate of these videos, is that 95%
+ of perpetrators are black.
It has become a "catch 22" for the police. You can't racial profile the perpetrators and aggressive policing is verboten.
I understand why the protesters and activists are protesting racial injustice in the criminal justice system. The end result though, is police not even considering crimes against property a crime. Say goodbye Saint Louis and hello to white and black middle class flight to the suburbs.
So sad. Saint Louis is a great place. The community has to come together on this or everybody looses.
Only My 2 Cents
43
The issue is not enforcing the law, it's executing suspects before they have a trial. It's attacking peaceful protestors with tear gas. If police are not doing their job protecting your property, you should join the protests and demand they change. They're withdrawing from property crime in order to force the white community into supporting them unconditionally. These are the tactics of a fascist state. Resist it and call them out on it.
17
You live in an environment where blacks were treated like newly-free slaves when I was a child. What do you expect?
4
So explain how the NYPD has been able to reduce crime so dramatically.
Of course, one reason may be that New York has effectively outlawed gun nuts. If you walk around with a six shooter there is an excellent chance that you will receive free accommodations on Rikers Island.
But the other reason is that we have a professional police department effectively and competently managed.
3
Hooray to these courageous protestors taking direct action against state-sponsored violence.
Since when has our country become so timid to stand up and practice nonviolent protest?
The more these brave men and women continue, the more people of all backgrounds will take to the streets against violence at home and abroad.
9
The protesters should feel free to stand in front of /encircle/chant at city hall and/or the police station but they have no business interrupting others going about their daily lives either. The rational espoused by people like LaShell Eikerenkoetter that "'We are bringing it to the doors of people who do not have to live this life and just giving that little bit of uncomfortableness Now you understand what we as black folks feel and why we are out here.'” isn't a winning strategy. Marching though a predominately white neighborhood or a suburban mall nowhere near the events being protested certainly wouldn't change my mind about their grievances, legitimate or not. Further, I certainly would remember being terrorized though.
8
NYT failed to report that only the City choose to persecute this officer after FBI and Eric Holder declined. Then a respected Federal Judge found him innocent of the only charge — 1st degree murder. Drug suspect was shot at the end of a car chase after ramming Police, so premeditation was not easily proved.
So why protest the city who brought the charges? Only because the judge wasn’t available I guess. The Mayor husband was killed in the city in a robbery. She is on the side of the protesters general aims, but cannot co done the violence that often accompanies the protests. Tell the whole story.
26
You seem to be under the impression that Obama was a black radical.
That would explain your inflated expectations of Eric Holder.
4
The officer was not tried in federal court. He was tried in state court. Circuit Court of St Louis City. No jury.
2
Not at all. More like the best President in my lifetime.
1
There are more effective ways to effect change than driving away the very businesses that could employ more people, not to mention ruining what was once a fine university. Try sending community representatives to respectfully engage with representatives of police at least once a month, for a start. Look for ways to reduce crime in your communities. Confrontation with police never ends well. Respectful engagement will pay dividends, though it might take a while.
19
@Sarnt Major: That accomplishes nothing. Over and over, it and similar methods have been tried.
7
I would argue that indeed engagement would work more effectively, especially if a concerted advertising campaign were undertaken. Choose a catchy slogan -- 'Let's get together' or something similar -- and go on television with PSAs documenting how headway is being made, i.e. community-based programs aimed at improving education, nutrition, etc. for the neediest and most vulnerable children to prevent them from growing up into crime. The police could do the same -- 'Here's how we're educating our officers on how to more effectively respond to criminal situations' (which would involve classes on how to de-escalate situations, rather than go for the gun right away).
'Us vs. them' clearly doesn't work. Only an aggressive, concerted effort will.
2
I would dispute that.
I was at a police event and walked up to a police chief in NYC. I pointed out that they had invited the public to the event and taken all of the good parking spaces for themselves. He looked at me and then turned to a sergeant and told him to move the NYPD cars and allow the public to park in the nearby spaces.
At a following event, he had officers stationed to allow attendees to park in "no parking" areas.
Good police officers will listen to and respond reasonably to responsible challenges.
13
This country is tearing apart. It’s sad to see the falling of that beautiful experiment, where Liberty, Freedom, and the persuit of Happiness were its pillars. What of beautiful experiment! I have been living in heaven
1
Don't despair yet. Out here in California, multiculturalism is moving forward relatively easily. I have neighbors and friends of all nationalities all over LA. The Southern California economy just hit $1 trillion, with only 3
states and 15 countries ahead of it in rankings. Yes, we have issues, yes, there's a stubborn group of Nazis in Orange and Riverside counties. But the diversity of 38 million people is overwhelming them and the economy is rewarding diversity. The answer is to get over fear of The Other and embrace the future. This is what the South and states like Missouri are refusing to do. Instead, they point fingers at liberals and non-Christians and blame them for their own decision to remain in an antebellum past.
62
On my street, one mile from the St. Louis City line, in 12 houses there are people of several different races and several different religions. We all get along fine.
The problem isn't race. It is class, culture and morality.
9
The St. Louis metro has 40 majority African American towns in it, more than any other metro. Many metros, such as Dallas and Boston, have zero majority African American towns. I see LA has 6 and San Francisco has zero.
Most of the 40 in St. Louis peacefully transitioned from majority white to majority black without incident over 50+ years span. A few, such as Ferguson, were slow to make the police force and government match the composition of the town, possibly because so many of the new residents lived in apartments and were not as involved in voting and government. But that is changing fast with the consent decree compliance.
2
"rein in its high murder rate"
What is the ratio of police kills to civilian kills? What is the method of the kills: guns? Perhaps they are protesting the wrong thing?
15
Maybe they expect a little better from trained and taxpayer-paid, well-benefited police officers sworn to protect them.
14
A black man is 2xs as likely to be killed by the police in St. Louis that the average person is to be killed by anyone in the US. St. Louis police stand out for the propensity to kill - they are well above the national average, which is already too high to be conscionable.
10
Disappointing, especially when you consider that about 1/3 of the St. Louis officers are black themselves.
1
As a resident of St. Louis for over 50 years, I believe the police need to evolve in their thinking. They should not judge the situation based upon the color of the skin of the suspect. Some of these cops are not trained well enough or are too immature to wear a badge.
On the other side, the protesters would garner more support if they did not hold up a convicted heroin dealer who led the police on a high speed chase through St. Louis as a role model. Second, they should police themselves, and when a member of their protest destroys property, they should turn them in.
St. Louis just sent in a bid for the new Amazon Headquarters. We don't have a snowballs chance in hell of getting that kind of business until we put our house in order.
80
The city NEVER had a chance. STL's white leaders now must sleep in a bed nearly 170 years in the making.
Anthony Lamar Smith was not a convicted heroin dealer. http://www.kmov.com/story/36407224/answering-viewers-questions-about-ant...
2
They are not claiming that the man who was killed was a role model. Our legal code does not support street executions of suspects for crimes, especially unarmed suspects, even if fleeing. They are protesting these unpunished street executions.
4
As a former St. Louis resident, I am proud to see the persistence of the demonstrators for justice, but sad that it has taken this long to get even a little national attention. A few more corporate boycotts and cancellations may yet do the trick. May the city that gave us Curt Flood see the light while it still can !
19
The Greater St. Louis metropolitan area is, I think, mostly red with a few blue pockets.
I fear that Pi Pizzeria (owned by Chris Sommers) will be made to suffer for his (now public) views in that many St. Louisans will now choose NOT to dine there.
8
Pi is in a blue island in a sea of red. None of his customers have any objection to what he’s doing. We support him absolutely, thanks very much.
15
No. St Louis City is solud blue and St Louis County is majority blue with a Democratic County Executive. Both Mayor & Executive are now white, even though City is mostly black. St Louis County is 75% white but previous County Executive for 10 Years was black. Please update your wrong assumptions about the metro area. You know little.
11
The St. Louis County Police Association already tried to silence Mr. Sommers by encouraging their followers on social media to harass his businesses. The St. Louis Police Officers Association, represented by blatant racist Jeff Roorda (a former officer who was fired for misconduct) followed up the next day by encouraging people to boycott the businesses. The community supported Mr. Sommers by turning out in force to dine in his restaurants in the days after he was targeted by the police.
15
If the NYTimes and other publications were honest they would look more deeply into the St. Louis situation. St. Louis has 60 municipal police departments. By far the worst offenders in ticketing and citation, which is where the abuse/hatred starts, are tiny communities led by black mayors and alderman who hire the cheapest green police cadets they can find, or officers fired by other departments. They prey on their own citizens and visitors. This has been covered at some length by the St. Louis Post Dispatch and Riverfront Times, studied by ArchDefenders, etc. yet the vilification of all white police in St. Louis continues unabated.
77
USAF non-protester, neighborhood resident Lt. Alex Nelson, 27, says he was kicked in the head, sprayed with a chemical and dragged off to a police van Sunday night when he and his wife, who live downtown, went to see what was happening. A police officer told him he didn't care that he was in the military, he said. - St. Louis Post-Dispatch
1
It is not the vilification of all white police officers. It is the vilification of police officers who murder unarmed Black men, plant evidence and walk away.
7
I love it. Another example of the St. Louis attitude.
3
Economy. Training. Jobs. Amazon should do something memorable here. Put an economic base beneath the drive for cultural change.
3
Why is it Amazon's responsibility to fix the city that gave us Dred Scott? This is the fault of generations of white Saint Louis families and citizens. Many are extremely wealthy and can afford to marshal their own resources to effect change. Rather than locate corporations like Monsanto out in West County, they could relocate them to the North County, invest in local schools, mentor young people and more. But they choose to remain in West County and beyond while digging in deeper. This is no one's responsibility but the white community of Saint Louis.
5
So other people have no right to prioritize their own and their family's safety?? They have some obligation to move to a dangerous neighborhood and to donate their assets according to your specifications??
4
OK. Good luck with that.
2
The protests at Mizzou backfired in a big way. Enrollment plunged, dorms have been closed, jobs have been lost (including many low-skilled jobs), and the value of a degree from Mizzou has likely been negatively impacted for all graduates of every race. Even liberal parents, it seems, don't want to send their child to an unstable riot-zone.
Activists must learn from this. They can and must continue to demand lawful treatment of all people, but they've got to tread carefully or they will prompt a middle-class flight from the city that mirrors the flight from Mizzou. It will be Detroit all over again, and the poorest among them will be stuck there forever.
I'd advise finding a way that doesn't bankrupt the city due to police overtime and causing businesses to close temporarily before closing permanently. That's not victory; that's suicide.
101
Honeybee - the precipitous decline at Mizzou was not the fault of the activists. First, all midwestern colleges are facing steep declines because of population loss and too few young people. Second, my young relative from St. Louis, a freshman at an out of state university, said that none of his high school colleagues considered Mizzou because it is a party school. Serious students go to Missouri State. Finally and most importantly, the disaster at Mizzou is the fault of the horrid president and others who maintained a racist environment, not the activists who publicized the awfulness.
56
Honeybee, Mizzou isn't in St. Louis. One might ask whether it is helpful or necessary for someone with as little apparent knowledge about the state of Missouri to speculate on the future of the University of Missouri in Columbia, or on the fate of that lovely city.
4
Cousy, sorry, you're wrong. The decline in enrollment, which resulted in 7 dorms being shuttered, was absolutely a result of the misguided protests that found the way from Ferguson to Columbia in short order.
6
This is a fantastically racially divided area--so much so that Amazon and not a few other concerns probably gave up on anchoring themselves here long ago. The middle of the country--Flyover Country, some call it--is isolated, with many pockets starved for cultural diversity. And clearly, we must have peace. But St. Louis police and their backers won't allow it. I don't know where all this will end, but I'm not hopeful that it will end in a good place.
16
What if residents of flyover country don't feel "starved" for so called "cultural diversity"? What if they like their communities fine as they are? Do they have that right? Who are you to dictate how other people feel or interact?
6
Contrast the response of police to demonstrators in St. Louis with that of the police in Charlottesville. In St. Louis a diverse group is attacked with pellets and tear gas, for the crime of peaceful assembly. In Charlottesville, police stand idly by as aggressive, gun-toting fascists and white supremacists march in Nazi homage while chanting "Jews will not replace us".
It's a cop thing. You wouldn't understand.
87
Not too long ago we were visiting St. Louis looking at homes and thinking about retiring there. We had a nasty interaction with a police officer. He was rude and aggressive, threatening us with arrest, all because we slightly drove into a gated community in order to turn around on a very busy street, one right off Forest Park. This was in broad daylight and we were driving a nice new car. We stopped considering St. Louis. There is something seriously wrong with the police there, although I would like to note that he was so aggressive "protecting" an extremely affluent community. Maybe the problem isn't so much with the police but the people who demand such protective bulldogs.
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I think I know exactly to which community you are referring. It has some of the most wealthy and historic homes in the region. Meanwhile, continue north on the same street, then head east, and you'll end up in North Saint Louis County very quickly. That's why the police are so aggressive, to protect from the "have nots" up the road. It's truly like India with the wealthy next to the poor and not having a care in the world about it. Rather than work to change the situation, they put up gates and hire thugs to protect themselves from reality.
12
St,. Louis' white officers protect this neighborhood like they were hired thugs. I've seen this too. The county os a filled with "gitcha" speed traps designed to keep people in the place with big fines.
5
Left Coast Finch, You have no idea what you are talking about. Those old mansions are not worth that much. Only a liberal who loves the park and the city would live there. The wealthy and conservatives live well outside the city limits in West County. The City is only the inner 1/10th of the metro area.
4
I visited St. Louis on a college trip for my son last year. We live in Manhattan, a tad progressive, arguably, and were rudely surprised to see that the Civil War is not over in the MidWest.
Not by a long shot. Segregation was subtle. and yet so obvious!
28
The Republicans thank you in advance for improving their chances in 2018.
16
Your idea is that arresting black people is a plan for the Republican Party? Well, I guess it does kind of jibe with their voter-suppression and gerrymandering activities, so you may be right.
6
And we all thank you for the reminder of just how naive and easily frightened white people in small towns are.
3
I've been to Saint Louis twice this year for personal reasons.
Since the verdict and the ensuing protests started I've been trying to find reports on developments. There are none, unless you follow local news, social media or personal contacts.
Contrast next to zero coverage of Saint Louis with daily media treatment of the constitutional crisis in Catalonia. We're talking here about the US where this one incident, placed against all the others, appear to demonstrate that the constitution has no tangible existence on the ground, in a major US city.
The Shockley verdict was frankly, shocking. Testimony, transcripts and footage depict a flat out assassination. Not just one more assassination by trigger happy police claiming self defence, but a hunt and kill mission with recorded statement of intent to murder, followed in fact by the use of an unauthorised personal weapon (AK47 assault rifle!!!!). The verdict is so out of line with the facts of the case that I can't help but wonder if corruption, and not simply bias, was involved.
Step into the breach, NYT. Tell Americans what life really is like in the US. Tell us how judges could reasonably come to an acquittal (the defense chose not to have a jury) . Or find out what other elements influenced the judges.
Events in Catalonia are simple entertainment next to Saint Louis.
67
This story provides some good insight into the declining state of civic order in St. Louis. There are shocking reports every week that seemingly get very little national attention. There have been violent protesters to be sure. But some police tactics used against peaceful protesters have been brutal and reminiscent of a repressive police state. The Times and other national news outlets would do well to shine more light on the conflicts taking place in this American city.
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How long, how long will it take us to learn??
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A: Forever as long as GOPera reign.
2
Hey Einstein, Smith was shot in December, 2011, care to guess who was president at that time?
3
"...And some wonder whether the unrest will harm the region’s bid to lure the new Amazon headquarters..."
Oh my. St. Louis has huge problems. Really huge. The murder and violence rates top the nation. The business sector is evaporating. The education system is awful. And I'll put their race relation problems up against any city except maybe Memphis. In no one's wildest imagination would Amazon choose St. Louis, and not only because the city meets almost none of the criteria Amazon set forth. It has been a city in stark decline even before Ferguson.
I pray for all of these folks, even the police. I don't know the way forward for them, although new leadership would be a start.
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According to reports on some news wires, St. Louis isn't even in the top 10 of choices. Afraid the damage is already done. And here's a reason why, http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/st-louis-aldermen-pa....
We honor criminals before police and victims of the crimes they commit.
12
You’re wrong. At the intersection of North and South, St Louis has a lot of activists and is a very diverse metro. The metro is 18% African American, and the City of St Louis is only the inner 1/10 of the metro. It is 48% African American and that percentage is going down as affluent black kids move to the suburbs and other ethnic groups and millennial move to the core. The large Muslim Bosnian community growing rapidly in the City is awesome and revitalizing the South side. St Louis City is Democratic and the 1 million in the separate St Louis County are mostly Democratic.
3
Crime in St. Louis is generally relegated to only some neighborhoods and is very easy to avoid. I lived there for more than a decade (in the city limits) and never had an incident of any kind. Similarly, there are many truly awful schools but also some excellent schools, both public and private.
St. Louis is really a tale of two cities - if you live in the safe part, it’s a great city. I wouldn’t want to live in the dangerous parts. And that is what allows the situation there to fester. It’s very easy to live your life and enjoy all the great things that St. Louis has to offer without ever encountering crime, poverty, etc.
I’m generally liberal but pro-law enforcement. I only ever had good experiences with police in St. Louis, but I was very troubled to read about how aggressive their tactics have been during this round of protests. I’d like to see a more relaxed response, (though I wholeheartedly approve of preventing protestors from blocking the interstate).
I love that city, and I believe there’s a path forward there. I hope people can come together and find it.
1