vis a vis the Wednesday Oct 18 puzzle---I have never heard the term "Can you do me a solid?" I have heard of can you do me a favor? What does can you do me a solid mean?
Today's puzzle was very difficult. Several answers that I'd never heard of but, as usual, the puzzle is very cleverly and thoughtfully constructed.
Thank you for the healthy word torture!!
2
Rumi has never made it in to the crossword?! I'm aghast!
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[lol]
...Ginny Rumi...
You are SUCH a card!!
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HepCatEight:
You’re exactly right. My ancestral family name was “van Hooglandte” when our first transplanted member arrived in New Amsterdam, from old Amsterdam, in 1638 - 26 years before there was even a New York. I won’t bore you with any further historical details (other than to mention that the van Hooglandte farm occupied, at one point, a sizable portion of Haarlem - where are those old deeds?) but in the ensuing centuries the “van” was dropped and the spelling “Americanized” to Hoagland.
Fun Thursday crossword - thanks!
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Really great Thursday puzzle today, with a smooth theme with a lovely execution that involved cool theme stuff like SCOUNDREL, TOP BANANA, NO GOODNIK, DIRTY RAT, and the terrific punchline, HEAD OVER HEELS. Just the right difficulty level for the punchline to be a funny revelation for this solver. By the way, about 12 years ago I happened to sit next to someone vaguely familiar on a commuter train who had a book of crosswords. He vaguely mumbled something about doing a little TV work, and (I think to end the conversation) gave me the book of crosswords; I learned it was Noah Wyle only later.
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Who knew that the actor billed as "Topol" in Fiddler, which I saw dozens of times, working in the Manhattan theatre where it had its first run, had a first name?
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His momma...his momma...
...his momma!
dai dai dee dai dai dai dai dee dai dah...his momma!
hee hee
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(Just an observation that the emus ate my utterly inoffensive, potentially humorous for fans of the musical, comment, for an entire day. Why? because no green check! I'm not frustrated, just completely annoyed...)
*sigh*
2
Neat puzzle. I liked this one a lot.
And with some political overtones, if one considers the juxtaposiitions: for instance, which well-known 64A is also a 67A? A few people in the news fit that criterion. Some consistently.
On other things, I kept trying to remember who Chaim Notok is. Natick at 50D crossing 56A -- never followed the Simpsons.
1
I'll add my vote to the general consensus that this puzzle is more of a Wednesday than a Thursday. But I think it would have been an _outstanding_ Wednesday.
4
Not buying APU
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Simpsons reference!
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Thus revealing a stunning gap in my cultural universe.
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Then get out of my store!
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A quick Thursday solve for me, although on my first pass through, I thought it would be a toughie. I too got the reveal before the theme answers and it was somewhat helpful in finishing. I was familiar with TOPOL, but not his first name. Several years ago, I thoroughly enjoyed some of Chaim Potok's novels. SYD the Kyd filled easily, but the only Syd the kid I know is Sydney Crosby, the pride of Coal Harbour, Nova Scotia.He has been criticizedrecently for not wanting to make a political statement by declining an invitation to the White House.
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Also Happy Birthday John LeCarre (David Corwell)
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Leave us not forget the NO GOODNIKS
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQhggbxh9og
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Not as tricky as I've come to expect on a Thursday, but I did like the juxtaposition of the themers, and got the reveal right away. (Actually I admit to thinking 36A might be BIGCHEESE with a rebus element.) I rushed into entering POTOK @47A without thinking through the clues. I also know TOPOL by just the one name. Didn't know TOD or LUSAKA as clued; needed the crosses.
Deb already treated us to the Go-Go's (I love the Go-Go's). Fortunately for me, the 80s were a prime decade for songs titled "HEAD OVER HEELS." ABBA and German heavy metal band Accept both recorded songs with that title, while in 1985, UK synthpop duo Tears For Fears made the TOP 10 on both sides of the pond with their composition:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsHiG-43Fzg
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I see that the replies to the comments are no longer being posted chronologically. I thought that had been resolved many months ago. Can someone with greater searching skills than I find the discussion and when it was corrected so I can cite it when I send my complaint to the IT people (a/k/a Cheese Relocation Team)?
Re the puzzle: Like others, I missed Thursday trickery. That said, this was a clever enough theme, and there were some fine moments. I didn't get the theme until I got to the reveal, then looked back up at 13 and 17A, so Aha! Hadn't finished entry at 36A yet, but looked at that, had a thought,l checked at 42A, and got the rest of the gimmick. Two asterisks = two Aha!s.
Only true unknowns: TOD, TSR, LUSAKA. Never heard of SYD tha Kyd, but the entry was inferrable from the clue. I will not investigate further.
I've never seen any production of "Fiddler," but my first thought of course was Zero Mostel. Then I remembered TOPOL did a revival. But wasn't he always billed simply as TOPOL? I don't think I'd ever even heard his first name before. I'm with the commenter (RiA?) who suggested keeping POTOK and linking CHAIM to that.
Glad, though, that RUMI bit the dust.
ER DOCTOR took a while I had ERDO... and couldn't think of anything except Erdogan, which (a) didn't fit, and (b) sounded an unlikely role for Clooney (not familiar with Wyle's work).
While I was disappointed that the puzzle wasn't Thursday-twisty, it was enjoyable. Thanks to all.
1
DL, I don't know if this is an answer to your observation on posting, but all comments nowadays seem to come accompanied by an age statement -- which apparently changes with elapsed time -- as to when it was posted -- to the nearest minute, or hour, or day. Not terribly satisfying, but then one is given some additional puzzle challenge to arrange one's perception of them in chronological order.
Re ERDO, there is a famous mathematician named Paul Erdös.
1
Both Clooney and Wyle played doctors in the NBC drama "ER"
Dr W: At the time the way the comments and replies were time-stamped (to the detriment of this part of Wordplay) they also started being posted in higgledy-piggledy order. Eventually that got straightened out, but I don't remember whether it was in one step or two (comments first, replies second). But it was okay.
Today I see that the comments are still being displayed chronologically (according to the silly system that is being used), but the replies underneath are not. So I'm seeing replies referring to earlier replies that are being posted lower down in the list, so it doesn't make sense until I check all the time stamps.
Also, I noticed that there seemed to be replies that referred to nothing I could find. I'm not sure whether it was here or over at Charles Blow's column, but there were some weird replies to something I couldn't find about "Kevin's dog."
Janet: Thanks. I did know that Clooney played a doc in some hospital drama that I'd never seen, and I've seen Noah Wyle's name but don't know who he is or what he's done. I tend to be a bit behind the times with this sort of thing.
I saw this one as a perfect Wednesday or even Friday puzzle. Not that I'm complaining, because I'm actually not a fan of the usual Thursday shenanigans!
Thanks for a clever theme, Ned! And although a song from Fiddler is probably in order, this old song from my youth came to mind. Enjoy the psychedelic throwback and smile =D
https://youtu.be/ptxwWt2JeGQ
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Clever theme well-executed, and an enjoyable solve, though I also wouldn't RESORT to calling it a full-blooded Thursday. Which should not detract from NedW's excellent design.
Personal enjoyments:
The synchronicity of Bru's recent comment about pigeons as DIRTY birds, which led me to Cagney's "You DIRTY RAT!"
The TOP SIDE Being that SE area with the Four TOPS: TUBETOP TOP BANANA TOPOL STOPGO
The interesting cross of RUDI Gernreich and TUBETOP, though he was clearly TOP[OL]-less
Personal disappointment (only one, but significant)
The loss of POTOK (which I saw immediately while finishing the SW). After yesterday's theatricals, I couldn't help but remember the production of "My Name Is Asher Lev" which I saw on {off?} Broadway a few years ago, all staged with a cast of three. The actors who played the parents both had multiple roles, and the lead was on stage with critical dialogue for Every Single Minute. Just outstanding.
With RiA, I think the cluing could have been worked out, but fortunately, I don't even need the PlayBill for the memories.
Doesn't RUDImentary rule of grammar make 19A EL TRAINO, si? Forgive the EFRONtery, NedWhite; after all the jokes and quibbles, you're the top!
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"Doesn't RUDImentary rule of grammar make 19A EL TRAINO, si?"
No (as you know). As New Yorkers of a certain age are well aware, "La via del TREN subterranneo es peligroso."
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I, like others, am always hoping for a rebus on a Thursday. But I was delighted with Ned's HEADOVERHEELS concept and even more so with his unexpected execution of it. The level of difficulty of construction definitely puts this in the Thursday "trickiness" category.
I loved it, thanks, Ned!
Here's one solver who did NOT find this Thursday too easy. I thought the TOPOL/LUSAKA crossing was close to a Natick. It's two proper names, neither of which have English or Latin roots. I had no way to get it other than to run the consonants. The rest of the fill was almost as challenging to me.
5
Mini in 30 seconds; Maxi scarcely longer. It filled in so quickly that I had to go back and ascertain the mechanism of the Cute Trick.
Just so happens we watched DIRTY ROTten SCOUNDRELs last night. There was a certain amount of name-calling, but "DIRTY ROT" was not among the labels. That one kinda went Clunk for me. On the other hand, I learned the capital of Zambia.
For any who didn't follow the link and listen to Deb's able interview with John Lithgow yesterday, I do suggest back-tracking. What a delightful conversation--eaves-dropping at its finest! Thanks, Deb!
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CS (below) gave me the clue that I finished with a wrong letter! Argh
My excuse is that the puzzle went by so quickly that there was no time to think... The MOL RUES the error...
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Hi, MOL, that's DIRTYRAT. I agree with you, though, it could've been either VoN or VAN.
Whoops! I missed your note.
I really liked a lot of the cluing in this puzzle, including a new definition for a crossword warhorse (SPLIT TO JOIN).
However, whenever one crosses French _____ with French _____ (as at 26 D and 33 A), one increases the amount of sadness and hopelessness in the world.
2
I agree - split to join is a clever clue for ELOPE, but it isn't the first time that I've seen it.
African capitals in the clues I generally come down with a case of the willies. Upon encountering clues of that ilk, I HOPE I am able to glean ample cross support and arrive at a reasonable conclusion. Today my guess at the Zambian city was reasonable enough but, sorry to report, a little off. I missed at sq. 50 with the letter 'v' instead of taking the EL (TRAIN)...I got a Tennessee Williams vibe in the NE with VUE intersecting le Carre's art...Diana Krall covers Cole Porter's standard, "Let's Do It (Let's Fall In Love)" sends me HEAD OVER HEELS every time I hear the upbeat ballad. How about you?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhWSUB7DYys
STAy, Classy WPers,
Bru
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Ned, yes on Rumi. Yes yes yes.
I like the ONE up, TEE up, and SHOT down. Cute theme, well executed and a solve that kept me on my toes.
The puzzle contrasts HEAD and HEEL, when during this Weinstein moment it's quite clear that the two can be congruent.
4
This was a very good puzzle and a feat of fine construction by Mr. White. It should not however have been run on a Thursday. Definitely more of a Wednesday.
I agree with RIA about NOT OK and what could've been used in its place.
At first, I was disturbed by the break up of BIG WHEEL and DIRTY RAT as mentioned by Deb, but then I read the earlier comments about the placement of the reveal halves and I am much more impressed.
For me, though, it solved much too fast for a Thursday.
2
Aaaaaand now I find I finished with an error! DIRTY RAT, not ROT.
Rembrandt VON Rijn misled me, and I failed to think about a VanDeVrande I once knew... Oh, the shame!
Rembrandt Harmenszoon VAN Rijn
Don't you remember seeing VAN Gogh?
1
Zero Mostel is the only dairyman I know so that presented a challenge. My most recent time sink is GeoGuessR and as such I knew LUSAKA. The rest of 47&57A came in the crosses
Today's fill was straightforward in a good way. Kept reading louse as Louise and wondered how my sister became a clue... I soldiered on.
After I exchanged the e for an i in 35D: Voila Monsieur Crayon Heureux.
Thanks Ned for another rebus free Thursday
2
Reasonably enjoyable puzzle; sort of a stop and go solve for me, with sussing out the theme answers being the key to working out the NW and SE in particular. As others have noted, it just didn't seem like a Thursday. I have two issues in particular with this.
Expanding on what others have said, the 'reveal' was (at least for me) not the 'key' to figuring out the theme answers. Those were clued and quite straightforwardly. If anything, it seems like the theme answers could have helped in figuring out the reveal, but I don't see how it works the other way around. I was half-convinced that when I read Mr. White's notes he was going to say that he originally just had asterisks for the theme clues. Now THAT would have made the reveal necessary (and turned this into a Thursday). As is, I'm just not getting it.
Then there's the notes on CHAIM, TOPOL and POTOK. I don't see the problem. Clue TOPOL by itself! I didn't even know his first name and even for those who did, he is certainly as well-known by the mononym. Then you can cross-reference CHAIM and POTOK and there is no 'unwieldy and convoluted' cluing. Plus you get another nice answer in the puzzle (certainly better than NOTOK). I'm kind of baffled by that.
Let me stress that I still enjoyed the solve. Those things just really jumped out for me.
7
I found a song for Deb. Heard this one the radio today - can't believe I'd never heard it before. This is actually a cover of a very old Chuck Berry song:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDwsOrK0snI
Lively lyrics. I especially like the last verse:
I met a German girl in England who was goin' to school in France
Said we danced the Mississippi at an Alpha Kappa dance
It wasn't me
woah, it wasn't me
It must have been some other body
no, no, child. it wasn't me.
2
I had the first batch of theme answers filled in, but wasn't seeing any connection until I got to the reveal, which produced a big smile. Like others I thought it was a fun theme, well executed, but not a Thursday type theme; I wonder if Ned intended it for a Wednesday perhaps.
4
This puzzle was far out of my wheelhouse, but I managed to get through it with several name look-ups, but no “check”s or “reveals”.
Starting with CHAIM, I soon had TAOISM and working up via HIYA to the revealer, I guessed HEAD OVER HEELS. Unfortunately, I interpreted as either 1: the theme entries have to be read backwards, or 2: they are two word entries in reverse order. It was a while before I realized that the theme was more straightforward: head -> honcho, heels -> louse.
The non-theme clue/entry that I liked best: ELOPE.
For a while I had STODGY before STOPGO, thus making Y the vowel in 69A. I wonder whether the emus would have passed it.
4
Held up a long time with HOT instead of HIP. Never parsed NOTOK until I came here. Never heard Kablooey. Never would have come up with the capital of Zambia without the crosses.
But on the plus side, I figured out the whole theme nearly before I entered a single letter - well, one word. When I entered SCOUNDREL and saw there were asterisks, my eye surfed the clues for the revealer. I counted out the letters and saw that my first guess fitted. And the whole thing came clear.
In the balance, a good puzzle. Kept me at it for a while because of the glitches mentioned above.
5
Somehow I missed The Fox and the Hound (34A) as a child, so I just looked it up on Wiki. What a dark theme for kids (happy ending aside)! The central premise is wrong, too. Dogs and foxes are not natural enemies. Hunters and foxes are. Big difference.
2
From the clue, I thought maybe it was something from Aesop, but it turns out it was a 1981 film "loosely based" on a novel I'd never heard of. From the first Wiki paragraph, I'm just as glad I missed both.
Needed all the crosses to get TOD.
1
I distinctly remember my grandfather taking my sisters and me to see Fox and the Hound in the theater when it first came out,i thought I was about 6 but I guess I was older if it was released in 1981; in any case that was the last time I saw it so didn't remember the character's name,i had Kit entered before getting Tod. I like the tricks on Thursday but overall this puzzle was more difficult for me.i got the revealer and the theme answers but didnt quite see the connection until I came here. Duh. And I still don't understand the"moolah" answer as doremi
3
Moolah and doremi are both slang terms for money.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46mO7jx3JEw
2
and Elke
Yesterday it was the Mikado - a TYPE of honcho and I was stuck with earworms, today it's CHAIM TOPOL and The Fiddler.
DOREMI , or rather the lack thereof , caused Tevye to sing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBHZFYpQ6nc
OT-Canada mourns the passing of Gord Downie of the Tragically HIP band .
3
and Elke
With the theme HEAD OVER HEELS love, and CHAIM TOPOL in the puzzle , I feel OBLIGEd to link this from the Fiddler On The Roof :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_y9F5St4j0
snif
4
Married 28 years myself. Triple sniff.
and Elke
PiP- the O-TYPE has been NUMERO UNO to the ONE and only B-neg. for more than half a century.....
3
Awww...big congratulations to you both!
My favorite movie scene about long-term marriage is in The Best Years of Our Lives. Myrna Loy and Frederick March take their adult daughter (Teresa Wright, who was just 12 years younger than Myrna Loy!) to task when she tells them they don't know what it is to really love someone. Loy and March exchange looks, and she says:
"How many times have I told you I hated you and believed it in my heart? How many times have you said you were sick and tired of me and that we were all washed up? How many times have we had to fall in love all over again?"
That and the scene where they are kind of shy with each other in the morning after being apart for years, and then they just go for it...wonderful!
2
I was worried that this was going to be too easy when I was able to fill the NW in one go. Not a good sign on a Thursday puzzle. I miss (as others have mentioned below) the extra twists we used to see on Thursdays. I'm no masochist, but I do like to be pushed around a bit late in the week.
I do like the clever theme fill, though. Would have been an extra treat if Trump had been wedged in among the heels! I have lots of clues for that fill, if anyone wants to hear them.
Other thoughts:
"One of the Obamas" could also be Barak Just saying.
Tahoe and Taos are not RESORTs, even if there are some resorts in those places. And it's Lake Tahoe, or (the city of) South Lake Tahoe, by the way.
Seeing the massively, shamefully, tragically abused chimpanzee Enos dropped nonchalantly into the middle of a puzzle with a jokey them is not a good look. It made me very sad.
I'm sorry, Enos, for what we did to you.
10
Oops on typo for ex-POTUS. My point was the clue for that was kind of blah, that's all. It's like saying one of the Bush clan, or one of the Nixons. Heck, "one of the Obamas" could have been SUNNY! Surely you could do more with SASHA?
I have no problem with ENOS the chimp being included in the XWP, as long as there the clue wasn't jokey or flippant.
But I'm glad you pointed out the cruelty, Peaches. I had thought of making some reference, but wasn't sure I'd be able to explain what was done to the generation(s) who don't remember back that far. I was appalled at the time. Likewise with Leika the Soviet dog.
4
I read the comment about the staggering of DIRTY RAT and BIG WHEEL, but in my opinion they are not a staggered pair but rather parts of two different pairs. I think BIG WHEEL is the Honcho over the HEEL part of the revealer, and DIRTY RAT is the Louse under the HEAD part of the revealer. Seems to make sense to me...
14
I think you nailed it.
1
QB, you're so right - supported by the double asterisk on the revealer clue!
2
Yes, yes, yes, QB!
I started mentally composing a similar comment when I read what Deb said. Before coming to Comments, though, I went to xwordinfo and found that Jeff apparently had a similar misconception.
To me, that was not at all a drawback, or something substandard to accommodate the theme. It was, in fact, a delicious extra that game me an extra Aha! moment (or two, depending on how you're counting).
1
From TOP BANANA to NOGOODNIK, this was quite a challenge. With the Mercury chimp, Zambia's capital, that Fiddler star, Syd somebody, and a few other obscure (to me) references, only a lot of extremely lucky stabs in the dark allowed me to complete this without resorting to Google. Finished about a minute better than usual for a Thusday; happy to have finished at all!
2
Straightforward... pretty much solved it from N to S and then E to W. But I didn’t get the relationship between the reveal and the theme entries until a few minutes after the full solve! So nice aha! at that point. Really liked the clue for RBIS. Thanks Ned!
3
Enjoyed the puzzle. Fun theme though lightweight for Thursday.
I said way much yesterday, so I'll say way little today.
Happy Birthday, John Lithgow!
3
Very clever, especially the three-level theme answer in the middle. Well done.
2
It felt like there were more theme entries than there actually were, so I'm glad Mr White cut back on them to improve the fill. Like Deb, I got the revealer before getting any of the specific theme entries, and it helped figure out what was NUM - - OUNO at 13A. This was another puzzle where a first pass through the Acrosses didn't produce much, but the Downs filled in quite nicely. I didn't know TOPOL's first name, but looked at - OTOK and thought POTOK as well. O TYPE was not the first blood type I thought of, or the second, and phrasing it that way sounded kind of odd to me.
BIG WHEEL is 36A, not 56A. Yes, in my previous life I was a proofreader.....
1
I enjoyed the puzzle (although I was not HEAD OVER HEELS), but I miss "Tricky Thursday." Clever and fun, but not devious. I HOPE for our SAKES Will OBLIGES by giving us a FRIGHT next Thursday.
8
I'm with you, Barry. I'd love to see some challenging rebus puzzles.
2