Seems the MTA cannot do anything right. As for me, I say Bravo on the Second Avenue Subway, it looks great.;
1
This would all be so much faster, safer and cheaper if only organized crime could be eliminated from the equation. Unfortunately neither our mayor nor our governor nor our leading journalists seem interested in pursuing the appropriate investigations; it's just "the cost of doing business" in New York.
1
The Capital Program Management Department at NYC Transit has two goals, and two goals only: Stay within schedule and budget. It does not matter IF the result is inadequate, unsafe or obviously incomplete. (I worked for Transit for 24 years.)
1
Perhaps slightly off topic, but I would suggest that it goes to the heart of the subway problems and the Cuomo - De Blasio feud.
The subway system is wholly owned NYC property entrusted to the MTA for operation and maintenance. That is to say, in return for custody of the system the state's MTA has accepted responsibility for it's maintenance.
This being the case, why hasn't the mayor directed the Law Department to sue the MTA for failing to properly maintain the city property in its custody?
Further, since the city's full faith and credit stands behind NYC bonds, would a bondholder have standing to sue the MTA for failure to maintain city property that backs the bond?
4
1) On the positive side, the new Q stops are great! Clean, fast, & convienient.
2) It is hard to tell what "17,000 defects" referst to. Except for placing crews to watch for fires while the fire alarms are getting tested, what are the issues? The number is so large I wonder if they count not verifying each of 500 tiles are not slippery as 500 defects? And is every "defect" a safety issue? A reader might get that impression but it's never stated in the article.
I understand that a crew watching for fires instead of an automated fire alarm relieves that safety issue. I would imagine that a brand new station may be more safe than the many old decaying stations even if not every detail was inspected. So we need examples of the 17,000 issues to know if they represent true dangers or instead represent 17,000 formalities about documenting minor things and burocratic requirments.
So, NYTimes, please provide enough info for the reader to judge whether or not the 2nd Ave subway is safe or there are just minor issues.
2
17,000 defects found but not addressed. No offense and don't mean to minimize safety in any way, but 17,000 defects and the subway actually travels down the track still? What are the defects - make work for union employees? Over-regulation? I mean that is a LOT of 'DEFECTS' and all are assigned as safety issues?
2
I use the Q regularly. Just this past Monday two escalators were out at the 72nd Street station. They have also been out intermittently at 86th Street at the 83rd Street entrance. Why? They were installed less than a year ago or not much before that. This subway has been planned since I believe the 1920s or 1930s. So it took 80 years before being built. And they still couldn't get it right. Makes you wonder how long it will take for the next phase!
1
Behind every move that Cuomo makes is his motive to be president of the United States. Pushing the opening knowing that there are potential risks to the public is just one more example. He has made so many enemies in his administration it seems almost impossible for him to achieve his goal. His ego will be his undoing, I hope. Michael Shnayerson's biography, The Contender shows that he shares a number of character traits with the U.S. president--only he's smart. Hopefully, no citizens will be physically hurt by his impetuous behavior.
7
I seem to recall Fearless Leader (Cuomo) suddenly taking an interest in it last December and pushing to get it open, because it absolutely had to be open by the new year. Are those articles linked below?
1
It would have been nice to know more about the 17,000 defects -- how many related to track, escalators, elevators, alert systems, drainage -- and how does this number compare to other projects. Remember, this was 3 new stations. These stations would not have opened had the defects posed a public risk, no matter how much the governor pushed. Knowing a top-level categorization of the defects would have helped.
2
Of course safety, security and customer satisfaction and peace of mind is compromised. I expect nothing less from the MTA and NYS in general.
A delay in implementing a Positive Train Control System led to the Spuyten Duyvil crash on the Metro North line, although the federal deadline for installing the system had not passed.
Overall, I give Cuomo very poor marks on subway issues.
Rules and regulations need to be revised. And after that, they need to be enforced.
Start with loitering issues. Why is it that anyone with no money, nothing to do, no place to go, or worse, looking for trouble, ends up in the subway system??
Cuomo has zero skills in identifying and fixing quality of life problems in the system: eating meals on trains or in stations, noise from passengers listening to music on their devices, unwanted performances, panhandlers everywhere, people living, defecating/urinating and leaving trash everywhere.
It appears that the Governor and MTA are highly skilled at threading the needle of leniency and avoid making and/or enforcing rules that matter so everyone can have a better experience. And because of that shortcoming, the system is populated by a significant amount of people who turn it into a toxic hellhole.
2
I'm far less concerned about the "quality of life" issues on the subway, which are completely irrelevant to this topic. I have control over where I sit/stand and I can ask someone to turn down music. I'm not saying those problems don't exist, but those are problems citizens manage/create.
System safety issues are a government/agency generated issue. We can't see them, we can't fix them, we can be injured by them. Our options here are limited to complaining while paying taxes and fares that are being spent inefficiently.
2
"Why is it that anyone with no money, nothing to do, no place to go, or worse, looking for trouble, ends up in the subway system??"
Because the city's mental health facilities have been gutted over the course of a generation, and the wrecking ball continues to swing; the last large outpatient mental health clinic in midtown is closing its doors.
1
The sunway system is a magnet for every type of miscreant and as such, any wanna be miscreant or antisocial person sees what the landscape is and feels completely comfortable using the system as a theater for acting out one thing or another.
The MTA does nothing about the homeless or loitering issues.
The police do not want to engage or arrest any homeless person who is panhandling.
Nobody wants them in their patrol car or wants to fingerprint them or touch them or get near them, let alone have them in the transit police stations.
Arresting homeless loiterers in the system sounds harsh, but it can be the first step in identifying who they are and then, getting them the help they need or reunited with their family.
How many passengers have been injured or killed by psychotic residents of the subway system? It happens every once in a while, folks. It is a safety issue, plain and simple.
This homeless/loitering issue sets the whole status quo for what is acceptable in the subway system and sends the message that it is okay to do whatever you want.
As far as live music performances on moving trains go, it is amazing to me that the musical instruments or playback devices are not seized as evidence. They should be, and upon conviction or plea bargain, instruments and playback devices should be sold at auction. This strategy would really make great strides in putting repeat offenders out out of business.
Cuomo is just another sleazy politician.
4
"But Mr. Cuomo insisted that the line be ready on time — to prove that government can do big things ..." Yes, like big screw ups! Once, again, the governor's monumental ego must prevail over everything else. And he wants to be president (and would no doubt be endorsed by the NYT for he is, after all, a 'D'!). Yet another example of why people - and not just those on the right - have a mistrust of government when the motivation is often not for the people but for the politicians.
Then we're treated to the bureaucratic nonsense from the MTA spokesman about how the line is "completely safe" - well, if that's the case, then why do they need fire spotters, for example or why is there a "temporary" safety certificate? Seems like an outright lie. No doubt, many of the 17,000 items on the punch list are indeed minor, but any that affect critical systems like fire alarms should never be ignored or put off, especially when you consider that in all likelihood the people who grant those exemptions (and certainly some like the governor or mayor) will never be in danger because they won't be using the system! And spare me the tiresome "latest technology" tripe, for it often is faulty due to needless complexity and poor modern construction.
What a mess we've created.
2
Has any New Yorker any idea of how many MILES have been added to the London Underground in the last 40 years? The MTA is a grotesque case of a dysfunctional entity. Will NYC ever wake up?
16
If they don't know, they can click on 1977 here http: //www.clarksbury.com/cdl/maps.html and click here for 2017: http://content.tfl.gov.uk/standard-tube-map.pdf
1
Miles and stations running correctly--maintained in good working order--is a much better metric than miles added.
1
One detail to be aware of though - the NYC Subways DOES NOT SHUT DOWN for maintenance. It is the only major subways system in the world that has no maintenance window. This impacts everything, including the ability to add to the system. So, how many miles were added to the London Underground over the last 40 years versus how many miles were added to the NYC Subway? And, at what cost? P.S. Both the state and the city have seriously underfund the capital program at NYC Transit.
The Transit Authority (TA) was not in compliance with minimal fire safety requirements, hence the LEGAL requirement of a fire watch due to an IMPAIRED safety environment. There are no fire watches in places that are up to code in the TA.
The whole concept of FASTRACK http://web.mta.info/nyct/service/fastrackSchedule2017.htm arose because you cannot close a section except briefly to perform necessary work without riders being tremendously affected. So when you have a section that is not yet on line, and NO rider is affected by its closure, you make the management decision to start service KNOWING you will have to give riders more inconvenience and less satisfaction?
Internal users-workers-are exposed to increased hazards having to work around real life operations as opposed to a non-operational construction site.
Safety will never be more important than managing perception to the TA.
The TA knows riders are captives. You are not truly customers-what other choice do you have as a working person to get to your job with a manageable cost?
Riders are forced to deal with a MONOPOLY that has NO accountability.
NYS will vote on a Constitution Convention ( http://www.newyorkconcon.info/ , http://www.rockinst.org/nys_concon2017/ , http://www.nypirg.org/goodgov/concon/ ) this November. Vote YES to start giving a voice to accountability for the TA & MTA so that you can have some protection from a monopoly that does not care about your safety or satisfaction.
4
He got it done, on time; stop carping. Perfect is the enemy of good. I ride the Q every day to and from work downtown. It is cleaner, quieter and faster than the Lexington Ave. line. Talk about safety issues try taking the 4,5, or 6 from 86th Street. Yeech.
13
Exactly. 1000%. Now, if they could just cut the rest of the corners and finish it . . !
2
He managed to build the most expensive subway expansion on a dollar per mile basis in the world. Wow, great job Andrew!
1
Given Cuomo's grandstanding, this isn't surprising.
Incidentally, the escalators on the 83rd Street exit of the 86th Street stop have been broken or in repair at least a dozen times. And morning delays on the downtown train are not uncommon these days - keep in mind, this is only the second stop on the route.
On the shiny new jewel of the MTA.
To summarize: The MTA was *years* behind schedule and millions of dollars over budget. And although the line is *less than one year old* broken down escalators and subway delays are par for the course. This for a line that runs for FOUR STOPS.
What a sad, inept agency the MTA is. Cities all over the world seem to do just fine running a public subway system. But "the greatest city in the world" can't even do a half-rate job.
14
Blame lies squarely with the politicians that we elect that serve on the MTA board and the politicians in Albany.
2
The City of NY does NOT run the subway or the MTA.
That you think it does says you're not real familiar with the subways within NYC.
By all means complain to the state assembly member for the upper east side regards the escalators.
2
This reporting is better than most NY Times subway reporting, so it's a start, like the Times' "discovery" that the MTA simply wasn't running anywhere near the number of 6 trains it claimed to on the east side IRT line during rush hour.
But sped up processes that simply cover problems aren't new to the NYC subways.
Almost all the underground stations that were "redone" in the 1990s, simply had tile badly applied over old decaying tile, and heavy coats of paint applied to leaking and water damaged ceilings.
Needless to say, 20 years later, the tiles are falling off the walls and the paint is peeling off the ceilings.
Newly built above ground station houses on the IRT leak--wooden doors are highly decayed, since cheap coatings were used. That is what happens when quick drying "lacquer" is used in place of marine grade coatings that take weeks to harden fully.
This kind of thing is hardly new to the administration of Andrew Cuomo, even if he's at fault for pushing to open the 2nd avenue subway before something like the fire alarm was fully functioning.
11
Sounds like they require some unnecessary tests.
2
We can't all be lucky enough to ride a mule to work every morning.
1
I'm still rather upset that 1/3 of the money spent, or something like $1.3 billion was spent on the unnecessarily opulent stations.
6
I don't see chandeliers. I'm curious what you see as opulent?
11
@KellyNYC. Have you been in them? They are huge. Totally unnecessary to be so big. For comparison look at the size of the 86th station on the Lexington Line. And that has four tracks, in comparison to just two on the Second Ave line. And lots more people.
1
Comparing the 86&Lex station to the Second Avenue stations is not a black mark against the new stations' spaciousness. They are built to accommodate growth. We have so many stations that are dangerously crowded.
3
"A temporary safety certificate..." Goodness-- how I love a bureaucrat's facility with the English language!
7
Just another example of why the MTA, under Cuomo's control now, but for many years, has been an abysmal steward of the public fisc.
The LIRR's East Side Access is 13 years late and between 250-400% over budget...so far.
8
This scenario is so bad on so many levels it isn't funny. Accelerating a deadline to appease the politicians, meanwhile, final safety testing failed and the subway line is "operating under a temporary safety certificate" until November per the FTA. The amount of overtime being paid to crews to watch for fires is hardly a solution but one which I assume the FTA was in agreement with because it meets some level of acceptance. I guess I just don't understand why the safety of the riding public has to be compromised in the first place. Since would MTA management find that acceptable? I find it terrifying that subway riders are actually riding on borrowed time. Shame on Gov. Cuomo and the MTA upper management who agreed to this situation.
12
" The amount of overtime being paid to crews to watch for fires is hardly a solution"
It's a solution to the critical shortage of no-show or no-work jobs transit workers demand.
1
Hopefully there will not be an issue that affects passengers , staff or work crews well-being before the final safety inspection is completed. However, if this winds up being not the case any bets whether Mr. Cuomo will accept full responsibility, resign office and accept criminal responsibility for his politically driven demands?
6
To think that, having just spent the weekend in NYC, I thought the Q line, being brand new, was the most efficient and actually running... the one exception to being completely stressed out by the schedule changes throughout the entire system (in spite having used the MTA for years, can't imagine how poor tourists deal with it), such that I was forced to take the cab on 2 occasions just to make it to my destination. I understand the need for repairs, but communication has always been, and remains terrible (I am now considering signing up for Uber)
Glad I didn't read this article before boarding the Q, or I would have been even more worried... :)
And kudos to all New Yorkers, not only for suffering through this, but for lending a warm helping hand the many times I had to ask for help or direction!
10
The Q was an existing line extended to the new stations. It used to be a relatively reliable and fairly lower-stress line compared to other lines. The extension to the new stations destroyed the entire Q line, it's horrible now. Thanks, Andy.
3
@tml: Please don't sign up with Uber. At least go with Lyft or Via.
And yes, weekend schedule changes are apparently the MTA's attempt to make sure we all stay mentally sharp (though high blood pressure is a bad side-effect).
6
@tmL:
"schedule changes"? That suggests you aren't familiar with the NYC subway system.
There's no posted subway schedule for the public to read--anywhere, not paper, not online. They aren't like commuter trains.
Yes, on the weekends there are always service changes because of work being done. Also no one, unless he/she is transfering from another train, ever takes the subway only 10 or 15 short blocks in Manhattan.
Looks like Showtime is more important than structural integrity and public safety.
19
What did it take? Over three decades to get this done? And you want inspections? Don't make me laff! Don't you know that this had to get opened, inspections or not, because Andrew is running for office again? We're lucky that he didn't name the subway after his daddy.
37
No surprise to anyone familiar with the MTA.
"...after nearly a century of planning and delays..." Good thing the MTA wasn't in charge of the Hoover Dam, NASA, the Manhattan Project or anything else requiring competence and the ability to get big things done.
16
"Mr. Cuomo insisted that the line be ready on time — to prove that government can do big things" - and cause big accidents. Safety should never be compromised to speed up a project. This is an absolute outrage. And it demands we ask the question, where else is the MTA lying to us about safety?
28
I use these stations when I'm in town for work, and I have enjoyed the clean, beautiful new stations. Reports like this one give me pause, tough - sounds like the backstory to a future subway disaster. It won't stop me from riding, but it does warrant a little extra vigilance on my part as a rider.
5
Hope the next governor will care more about people than meeting unrealistic schedules.
25
To be fair, the 2nd Avenue subway is 30 to 40 years behind schedule.
1
Imagine the size of the lawsuit if something goes wrong here!
6
I'm glad the line was opened on time. We need the Federal Government to go back to Washington.
I love the Q train and the stations. Seems perfectly fine to me, and apparently no problems to speak of or we'd have heard plenty.
3
My husband asked Cuomo about this in late 2016 when he was hanging around the construction site to prove that the job was going to be done by 12/31/16. Cuomo reassured him that safety came first and inspections weren't being neglected. I was skeptical then, and I'm sorry to be right. There are still tons of construction workers on site at each station, every day.
34
"more than 17,000 defects found during inspections had not been fixed, according to the reports."
American quality, engineering and craftsmanship shine brightly in the bowels of Manhattan.
31
Well at least we can rest assured that it's bound to be more safe than the entire rest of the subway system, which has had track fires, derailments, and other problems consistently. No way could a brand new track system be in anywhere near as bad shape as the system as a whole is, right?
7
@Dan Stackhouse: Dan, Dan, Dan, you're such an optimist! Have you learned nothing from your years in NYC? Give it a couple of years and the new stations will have track fires of their own, and the elevators will randomly be out of order (and will stink of urine when they are working).
2