Rebuild those snapped power lines quickly so they can snap again when, not if, the next hurricane or tornado hits the area. The definition of insanity? All those utility lines should have been buried underground decades ago especially in states that aren't prone to earthquakes.
If nothing else we did it in our neighborhood voluntarily, every homeowner on our street agreed to chip in ten grand. It's amazing how it beautifies the neighborhood and most visitors are astounded that something's different with the view of their surroundings but can't quite figure out what it is until the lack of utility lines running everywhere is pointed out to them. Besides the visual aspect, taking the long term view you get your investment back because the Sisyphean efforts to trim the incessant growth of trees and other flora encroaching on the power lines is no longer necessary.
5
Overhead cable plants are unsightly compared to underground cable plants. If ratepayers had to pay for underground cables, political chaos would ensue.
In 2002 a Maryland Highways Research project consluded:
"Based on the information gathered from each of the eight work tasks, a number of conclusions can be drawn regarding the cost effectiveness of overhead and underground utilities. Data obtained from Maryland utility
companies indicate that construction costs for overhead utilities range from $0.62 million per mile to $1.02 million per mile and underground comparable service ranges from $3.3 million to $8.3 million per mile.
http://www.roads.maryland.gov/opr_research/md-03-sp208b4c-cost-benefits-...
In the 2002 report, underground cable was six times more expensive to construct than overhead cable. Over 15 years, we still have utilities reconstructing overhead lines with experienced linesmen/women using cherry-pickers after major weather power outages.
If Florida's utilities determined that underground cable plants offered better ROI for longer duration, we would have more use of underground utility cabling plants. When the service areais flooded - wholly or partly, you need a means to get undeground without flooding the conduits that thread the cable plant throughout the service area and the distribution transformer vaults that are also underground - mainly in downtown districts.
1
I agree with others who say rebuilding needs to come with better zoning considerations. We taxpayers and insurance payers from every state in the country are all paying for these disasters with higher premiums, military rescue and intervention, tax breaks, FEMA aid, etc.
3
Would any researcher take the opportunity, unfortunate the situation may be, to do an investigation concerning the impact on morbid obesity so prevalent in the US? Since the recovery would presumably require more physical activity for the individuals and less easy access to food (no ice cream and less fast food, for example)? Might help to bust the self-delusion that "I can't help being obese".
Yep, I know this will step on someone's nerve but, look, this is free speech!
1
I already see it in between the lines. You know, that map of - Eco America. Gateway communes to a half dozen North American eco regions, all inter connected with corridors of sustainable, high density, eco roof top gardenend, highrise (Section 8) villages, along eco high speed rail. ASTM, Agenda 21, Sierra Club...pit is predictably here, in between the lines:
http://jh.brainfork.net/files/2012/10/bioregions.jpg
http://jh.brainfork.net/files/2012/10/bioregions.jpg
This statement, according to Monroe county officials is FALSE:
"Later on Monday, the Defense Department said that damage to the Keys was so extensive that it might be necessary to evacuate the 10,000 residents who rode out the storm on the islands."
"Later on Monday, the Defense Department said that damage to the Keys was so extensive that it might be necessary to evacuate the 10,000 residents who rode out the storm on the islands."
1
The "Conchs" need to carefully assess the future expectation that the Keys will be permenantly underwater. The Conch Community should band together and engage in discussion with the state and federal governments to release properties in the Keys for a future acquatic or terrestial national park. The exchange would be a resettlement to more suitable locations in the state, including fair compensation. What's the value t the government (taxpayers) to move the Conchs? The costs involved in trying to save lives and reconstruct utilities in the keys will increasingly become more prohibitive: itis better to negotiate a deal now to resolve the expected future flooding of the Keys than wait to see neighbors financially crushed and homeless. Nostalgic community living in the Keys should not over-ride rational exercise of personal and family security, and financial well-being. If Jimmy Buffett can move north, so can other Conchs:
http://www.news-journalonline.com/news/20170216/jimmy-buffett-community-...
http://www.news-journalonline.com/news/20170216/jimmy-buffett-community-...
Two words of advice to everyone: Emergency Kit!
Be ready to go with a backpack with everything you need.
Don't forget your pets!
Have list of phone numbers in your wallet.
Include extra batteries for your cell phone.
Really you just never know what is going to happen next.
Be ready to go with a backpack with everything you need.
Don't forget your pets!
Have list of phone numbers in your wallet.
Include extra batteries for your cell phone.
Really you just never know what is going to happen next.
3
President Trump has to rethink this corporate tax cut obsession. It will make the deficit worse. Too bad he's never going to be the president who forces corporations to stop parking profits overseas tax free. We can't afford cutting corporate taxes. In fact, time to close the loopholes.
Hurricane Harvey flooded toxic sites and brought mercury to the shore. Trump wants to slash the dangerous waste remediation Superfund at the EPA by one third. And Florida has numerous toxic waste areas that also need addressed.
Accu-Weather's analysis is the Harvey & Irma disasters are on the road to a combined $290 billion in costs.
But Trump's budget makes deep cuts to agencies assisting disaster response such as grants for State/Local First Responders, Watershed Prevention Operations, Regional Coastal Resilience Grants, Army Corps of Engineers, National Weather Service & a Sea Grant Program where 33 universities around the country work on health/vitality of coastal and community resources.
Hurricane Harvey flooded toxic sites and brought mercury to the shore. Trump wants to slash the dangerous waste remediation Superfund at the EPA by one third. And Florida has numerous toxic waste areas that also need addressed.
Accu-Weather's analysis is the Harvey & Irma disasters are on the road to a combined $290 billion in costs.
But Trump's budget makes deep cuts to agencies assisting disaster response such as grants for State/Local First Responders, Watershed Prevention Operations, Regional Coastal Resilience Grants, Army Corps of Engineers, National Weather Service & a Sea Grant Program where 33 universities around the country work on health/vitality of coastal and community resources.
3
Since Hurricane Wilma about 10 years ago, FPL has spent loads of money and added numerous surcharges on monthly electric bills to upgrade, strengthen, improve their system so it could withstand high velocity hurricanes. Yet most of the electrical outages began early when only tropical storm winds were hitting South Florida (Dade & Broward Counties).
PLEASE REPORTERS: Stop mindlessly reporting the horrible conditions and repeating whatever FPL says and ask them WHY DID THEIR SYSTEM FAIL after spending hundreds of millions of dollars over the past decade to prevent this. Who is going to be held accountable?
PLEASE REPORTERS: Stop mindlessly reporting the horrible conditions and repeating whatever FPL says and ask them WHY DID THEIR SYSTEM FAIL after spending hundreds of millions of dollars over the past decade to prevent this. Who is going to be held accountable?
8
But, as our president said, it's wonderful what Hurricanes Irma and Harvey have done for the U.S. Coast Guard "brand". He also said that people in the Houston shelters were having lots of fun. I guess there's a very fine line between a president who looks at the glass as half full, and one who is utterly and embarrassingly tone-deaf. Oh, and I hope nobody is insensitive enough to bring up the "Chinese hoax" of global warming/climate change now.
14
For the cost of a destroyer or two, we probably could bury all the power lines and transformers currently hanging on poles.
14
That is something Germans and other European countries don't understand: Why, even with new housing developments, or with neighbourhood renovations projects, we don't bury our power lines and transformers. I'm continually asked why that is - no logical answer to give...
6
I currently live in Florida up in the panhandle. Which is about 11 hours away from the keys. If I would have been told to leave I would have left. I have to say the governor did say the correct thing when told people that you can get some more stuff you cannot get another life. I am looking into using my skills to help those in need in the state. There was a republican congresswoman from south Florida on the news saying we need to pay more attention to what the scientist are saying about global warming. Finally!
10
Yup. Ileana Ros-Lehtinen.
She's been there for over two decades. Haven't heard too much from her on this subject before, have you? ...But now that she's retiring......a day late and a dollar short.
She's been there for over two decades. Haven't heard too much from her on this subject before, have you? ...But now that she's retiring......a day late and a dollar short.
3
A prudent decision might be to plan on moving out of Florida. Between hotter weather, rising seas and bigger storms, why stay?
6
I live in Refugio, Tx. We're 15 miles across the bay from Rockport, where the storm came ashore. It squatted over Refugio for hours and hours, first as a Cat 4 and then a Cat 3 storm. Strongest gust was 143 mph about 2 am Sat.
The town is isolated, poor, without a Home Depot or large supply store. These towns are desperate for building supplies: Tivoli, Aransas Pass, Refugio, Woodsboro. If we'd had an Irma, we'd be drinking beer and BBQing. Instead, we're tarping roofs and waiting.
The town is isolated, poor, without a Home Depot or large supply store. These towns are desperate for building supplies: Tivoli, Aransas Pass, Refugio, Woodsboro. If we'd had an Irma, we'd be drinking beer and BBQing. Instead, we're tarping roofs and waiting.
2
There has been very good reporting about neighbor helping neighbor during this sad and unfortunate time and other do gooders assisting those in dire straits. Why has there not been any mention of the looting that has occurred during this tragedy? There have been several videos circulating about nine individuals carrying out shoes from a shoe store in Ft. Lauderdale and the eventual capture of the criminals but not from the NYT. Also there has been no mention of price gouging from certain businesses. These should have been included as part of Hurricane Irma.
3
Really, you see the thought of a handful of people taking some shoes as hard news on par with massive storm damage? The equivalent in shop lifting probably happens every day.
3
Global warming is real, whether caused by fossil fuel burning or some other cause. More hurricanes with higher and higher destructive power will occur in the future. A category 6 intensity may have to be added in the near future.
What to do?
We can stop building in coastal areas that are prone to hurricane exposure. Or, if build we must, revise the building codes that can withstand hurricane strength winds and flooding. This will at least reduce the huge recurring cost of rebuilding and rehabilitation after each hurricane.
We are now measuring rain in some areas in feet, rather than in inches. What does that mean? That means low lying flood prone areas should be declared non-habitable, unfit for safe living.
The United States have a very large land mass. Populations should be shifted to higher ground and away from hurricane allays.
So far, the government has played little role in formulating policies for land development. However, when a calamity occurs, the government is expected to intervene and pay for recovery efforts. Only the government can stop development in areas that are prone to wind and flood damage. This is a new role that our government needs to assume. In the long run, it will save money and lives.
What to do?
We can stop building in coastal areas that are prone to hurricane exposure. Or, if build we must, revise the building codes that can withstand hurricane strength winds and flooding. This will at least reduce the huge recurring cost of rebuilding and rehabilitation after each hurricane.
We are now measuring rain in some areas in feet, rather than in inches. What does that mean? That means low lying flood prone areas should be declared non-habitable, unfit for safe living.
The United States have a very large land mass. Populations should be shifted to higher ground and away from hurricane allays.
So far, the government has played little role in formulating policies for land development. However, when a calamity occurs, the government is expected to intervene and pay for recovery efforts. Only the government can stop development in areas that are prone to wind and flood damage. This is a new role that our government needs to assume. In the long run, it will save money and lives.
5
You speak to my earlier unpublished comment as to how this will become a managed event which will reinforce the logic of ill-conceived ideas. I am patiently waiting. If it doesn't pop up soon then there are other places to exercise my thoughts. Perhaps as a going away gift. That would be nice.
"Hardly any deaths--could that be because 6.3 million evacuated?"
Maybe. But as others have pointed out, evacuation isn't always easy, especially in a state with a large elderly population. For example, will your destination have a dialysis machine available for Grandpa? Should you make room in the trunk for Grandma's wheel chair? Will Grandpa and Grandma be able to sleep for several weeks on a wrestling mat in a high school gym? When you come home, will your house have been looted? Should you reduce that risk by taking your TV and jewelry with you?
For such reasons -- and many others I undoubtedly haven't thought of -- I can understand why many Floridians chose to stay put rather than to evacuate. It's easy enough to order an evacuation, and doing so reduces the risk of second-guessing, but let's not pretend that evacuation is always the best course. I wouldn't have ordered it, period. I'd have very strongly advised it for Keys residents, and would have advised it for people in other areas. But to say that evacuation is "mandatory" means that people will be punished if they don't -- fined, imprisoned, or both. That strikes me as way too extreme. Government should -- and does -- step in to help people in a crisis, but that doesn't give government a right to insist that people do everything that government demands as a condition to that assistance. There still should be room for common sense.
Maybe. But as others have pointed out, evacuation isn't always easy, especially in a state with a large elderly population. For example, will your destination have a dialysis machine available for Grandpa? Should you make room in the trunk for Grandma's wheel chair? Will Grandpa and Grandma be able to sleep for several weeks on a wrestling mat in a high school gym? When you come home, will your house have been looted? Should you reduce that risk by taking your TV and jewelry with you?
For such reasons -- and many others I undoubtedly haven't thought of -- I can understand why many Floridians chose to stay put rather than to evacuate. It's easy enough to order an evacuation, and doing so reduces the risk of second-guessing, but let's not pretend that evacuation is always the best course. I wouldn't have ordered it, period. I'd have very strongly advised it for Keys residents, and would have advised it for people in other areas. But to say that evacuation is "mandatory" means that people will be punished if they don't -- fined, imprisoned, or both. That strikes me as way too extreme. Government should -- and does -- step in to help people in a crisis, but that doesn't give government a right to insist that people do everything that government demands as a condition to that assistance. There still should be room for common sense.
This seems to be the prevailing sentiment, but many people who say they feel that way actually support the opposite view:
"I'm all for providing help with relocation, not for rebuilding in areas that have flooded."
The NYT editorial board probably feels the same way. But when the NYT ran an article two weeks back about FEMA guarantees of flood-insurance premiums, the writer didn't argue that FEMA shouldn't be subsidizing flood-insurance premiums; he complained only that Congress hadn't properly funded FEMA's premium guarantees.
When someone who has flood insurance paid for with FEMA-guaranteed premiums incurs a flood loss and collects on her flood-insurance policy, do you suppose the insurance company tells her she can't use the insurance payments to rebuild in the same place? Of course not -- she can use those payments however she sees fit. Next question: If that policy holder applies for flood insurance on her new home, built in exactly the same place, which of the following do you suppose the insurance company decides?
1. "We're not going to issue a flood insurance policy to that woman because she's building in a flood-prone area -- regardless of whether FEMA is willing to subsidize her policy premiums."
OR
3. "As long as FEMA is willing to guarantee this woman's premiums, we're willing to issue her a flood-insurance policy on her new place, just like last time."
"I'm all for providing help with relocation, not for rebuilding in areas that have flooded."
The NYT editorial board probably feels the same way. But when the NYT ran an article two weeks back about FEMA guarantees of flood-insurance premiums, the writer didn't argue that FEMA shouldn't be subsidizing flood-insurance premiums; he complained only that Congress hadn't properly funded FEMA's premium guarantees.
When someone who has flood insurance paid for with FEMA-guaranteed premiums incurs a flood loss and collects on her flood-insurance policy, do you suppose the insurance company tells her she can't use the insurance payments to rebuild in the same place? Of course not -- she can use those payments however she sees fit. Next question: If that policy holder applies for flood insurance on her new home, built in exactly the same place, which of the following do you suppose the insurance company decides?
1. "We're not going to issue a flood insurance policy to that woman because she's building in a flood-prone area -- regardless of whether FEMA is willing to subsidize her policy premiums."
OR
3. "As long as FEMA is willing to guarantee this woman's premiums, we're willing to issue her a flood-insurance policy on her new place, just like last time."
1
Have the impression that our moderator loves your ideas. I do, to a disproportionate exclusion.
Having compassion for and helping those in Texas and Florida and elsewhere who are hurting from the latest natural disasters known as Harvey and Irma is a good thing. But our reaction mustn't stop there. We must finally take a giant leap forward and actively do what's necessary to address the cause of all this human suffering and war-like displacement. And that doesn't mean limiting our actions to just rebuilding stronger and higher up dwellings.
According to most scientists, our warming planet, that's caused by human behavior, is the reason for worsening natural disasters. And that includes wild fires caused by drought, arctic ice melting leading to a rise in sea level that's flooding low lying areas, as well as, warmer oceans fueling hurricanes and making them even more catastrophic.
We must take these warnings from Mother Nature seriously. We must raise our consciousness and voices and do whatever is necessary to halt this "inconvenient truth" before it's too late, before it does even more damage to our fellow Americans and fellow humans. If we fail to heed these warnings of a clear and present danger, the deadly consequences will most likely visit us all, sooner or later, and especially future generations.
According to most scientists, our warming planet, that's caused by human behavior, is the reason for worsening natural disasters. And that includes wild fires caused by drought, arctic ice melting leading to a rise in sea level that's flooding low lying areas, as well as, warmer oceans fueling hurricanes and making them even more catastrophic.
We must take these warnings from Mother Nature seriously. We must raise our consciousness and voices and do whatever is necessary to halt this "inconvenient truth" before it's too late, before it does even more damage to our fellow Americans and fellow humans. If we fail to heed these warnings of a clear and present danger, the deadly consequences will most likely visit us all, sooner or later, and especially future generations.
3
that means not putting gasoline in your car, not burning natural gas to heat your home or to cook with, not using electricity generated with coal or natural gas, not buying stuff from Amazon that is delivered in a truck, not using products that are made or shipped using fuels that are burnt, and a million other things that, as far as I can tell, cannot be done.
raising consciousness? what is that and how does it result in less burning of carbon-based fuels?
raising consciousness? what is that and how does it result in less burning of carbon-based fuels?
1
Ingolf Stern, "Raising consciousness" means when we know better we do better, even for climate change deniers.
1
American War' by Omar El Akkad is a very interesting book that combines all the important elements of our country's current problems. it is a fictionalized account of how climate change brings about a second civil war in the United States in 2075. The Federal government banned the use of all fossil fuels and things went downhill from there. Reading it opens a window into a possible future, if we don't manage to stop this Republican and Trumpian madness.
6
Perhaps a big coastal wall would put an end to those pesky hurricanes.
10
I don't object at all to someone buying a house right on the ocean, if they pay for it without taxpayer help. I do object, however, to subsidizing flood insurance premiums for that house. While it's much tougher than has been reported to qualify for a FEMA insurance-premium guarantee, or a FEMA loan guarantee, I do know wealthy people that have managed to qualify. That shouldn't be possible.
12
The maximum FEMA flood insurance pays for a dwelling is $250,000. The NFIP is self sustaining so the taxpayer doesn't subsidize anyone's premiums. The bail outs for the extreme expenses of hurricanes Katrina and Rita are loans that will be paid back. You aren't subsidizing anyone who buys flood insurance.
2
A close friend had traveled to Florida and hadn't reach us here. A full week later, we suspected the worst. I imagined every scenario--none good.
Turns out a four year old dropped her phone in the water. She didn't know any of the cell numbers by heart.
Sounds almost embarrassingly simplistic, but take the time to write down the names & numbers from your cell phone and keep them with you when traveling. Technology is not always our best friend when streets become streams.
Turns out a four year old dropped her phone in the water. She didn't know any of the cell numbers by heart.
Sounds almost embarrassingly simplistic, but take the time to write down the names & numbers from your cell phone and keep them with you when traveling. Technology is not always our best friend when streets become streams.
8
Tell Scott Pruitt to get the hamsters back into the wheels and generating some power for South Florida. I certain that's where Pruitt thinks the stuff in the "holes" (see George Costanza - "The Frogger") comes from...
5
I have just one question: where is our president in all this? Total silence from tweeter in chief. Sorry, couldn't help but notice the silence. Is he afraid his base might connect his name with the two unfortunate storms?
13
Ah, yes, all the advantages of a low tax state. I'm sure my long dead relatives remember it fondly. That was the reason they moved there.
6
I'm not surprised that so many commenters are carrying on about the "media hype." It's a catch-22, isn't it? The hype motivated people to take this storm seriously, board up their houses and get the heck out. The result of being so prepared meant minimal loss of life and property damage. If the media had not "hyped" the storm, it would have been catastrophic. Jim complained that Miami just had a few broken windows. Pay attention Jim. Miami is on the opposite side of the state from where the hurricane landed. And a few broken windows is not the only damage, if you'd bother to read the article. Irma didn't hit a city, like Katrina and Harvey. It hit an entire state, not to mention a chain of islands on the way.
Honestly, I am impressed with how well Florida and Floridians responded. Both the state government and the citizens should get an award for being so responsible and pro-active. Far from being overhyped, Florida is setting the standard for hurricane response.
Honestly, I am impressed with how well Florida and Floridians responded. Both the state government and the citizens should get an award for being so responsible and pro-active. Far from being overhyped, Florida is setting the standard for hurricane response.
20
But I fear that next time people who's houses weren't badly damaged and who evacuated will not evacuate the next time, saying "the government" or "the media" was wrong the last time.
2
first the media just reported - the governor and state official set whatever tone that was prevalent.
1
My contribution as an engineer (M.S. structural engineering, UC Berkeley)
After every event like this (hurricanes, earthquakes, tornadoes) engineers from all over the country visit the disaster site to inspect the damaged buildings and learn more about how building failures happen. It's one of the more interesting parts of our jobs.
These observations lead to building code revisions. After Hurricane Andrew we learned A LOT about weaknesses in residential wood frame construction and codes saw a lot of updating. In recent years, I've noticed that NEW homes which show significant damage, have almost always shown shoddy construction that either did not meet code at all or was executed poorly and should have failed inspections. A typical example, the carpenter nail gunning the plywood roof deck to the trusses is 3/4" off ... doesn't sound like much but it's exactly enough to result in the entire row of nails missing the trusses completely, so that the plywood is not attached at all. (See link below for a photo.)
With old buildings there may not be a lot we can do. But with new buildings we really must demand that builders EXCEED the building code. And there must be serious consequences to individual inspectors who fail to uphold their end by letting builders get away with substandard work.
This means building less square footage at a higher quality. As consumers we need to accept that trade-off.
http://honorconstruction.com/blog1/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/8d-nails.jpg
After every event like this (hurricanes, earthquakes, tornadoes) engineers from all over the country visit the disaster site to inspect the damaged buildings and learn more about how building failures happen. It's one of the more interesting parts of our jobs.
These observations lead to building code revisions. After Hurricane Andrew we learned A LOT about weaknesses in residential wood frame construction and codes saw a lot of updating. In recent years, I've noticed that NEW homes which show significant damage, have almost always shown shoddy construction that either did not meet code at all or was executed poorly and should have failed inspections. A typical example, the carpenter nail gunning the plywood roof deck to the trusses is 3/4" off ... doesn't sound like much but it's exactly enough to result in the entire row of nails missing the trusses completely, so that the plywood is not attached at all. (See link below for a photo.)
With old buildings there may not be a lot we can do. But with new buildings we really must demand that builders EXCEED the building code. And there must be serious consequences to individual inspectors who fail to uphold their end by letting builders get away with substandard work.
This means building less square footage at a higher quality. As consumers we need to accept that trade-off.
http://honorconstruction.com/blog1/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/8d-nails.jpg
15
Less square footage, higher quality - a good phrase.
1
Less square footage equals less carbon pumped into the atmosphere too. (and more money in the pockets of everyone but the fossil fuel companies).
1
That's a failure of the building inspector. He should have caught that. That sort of thing is certainly addressed by the current building codes.
2
This will sadly continue to happen and those deniers of climate change will continue to keep their cowardly heads in the sand. As my father correctly said, these people need to just die off before we can start clearing a better path. I fear the superstorms they deny will help with that
4
My 95 year mother lives in a condo in the NE section of Ft. Lauderdale near the beach.
Her power was miraculously restored at 6:54 a.m. this morning.
THANK YOU Florida Power and Light!!!
Her power was miraculously restored at 6:54 a.m. this morning.
THANK YOU Florida Power and Light!!!
8
Anybody else ready to move on? What ELSE is happening in the country? In the government, for that matter? "Meet the Press" and "Morning Joe" were interrupted on Sunday and Monday respectively, for coverage of beached dolphin rescues and interviews with intrepid storm "enthusiasts," who ignored evacuation orders, as they clearly knew better than the local authorities. No Emmys or Pulitzers emerging from this wind blown dreck. This hurricane coverage was hackneyed, overhyped, and exhausting, especially for those of us in less vulnerable areas of the country that will have to pay to again rebuild to accommodate the folly of our countrymen, who've decided that running away from their homes in search of shelter is a potential adventure worth an annual undertaking, as long as someone else is paying. Enough to both practices.
1
I guess I am dumb. Or innocent. Or disadvantaged. Or SOMETHING. I live in the wealthiest country in the whole world. We have a population of 350 million people. We have hundreds of ships. Thousand of aircraft. Millions of military people with thousands of helicopters. Hundreds of landing craft, aircraft carriers, trucks, tankers. etc. And the list goes on.......Yet we cannot deliver food, water, fuel, medical care, tent cities, medics, and all the other needs to the helpless people in the Southeast - Florida, Louisiana, Georgia, the Keys, and other un-noticed, hurting people. Where did we go wrong? Where ARE WE GOING WRONG as I write this? Wake up, America!!!!!
27
The federal government is known as the enemy in the states you mentioned.
1
Are we talking about the victims of Irma or Southern poor men, women and children? if you are talking about the poor sir, this is no time to bring them up. For God's sake man, show some sensitivity.
1
@Pogo
Remember during Hurricane Katrina when people were on the streets and a little boy --as the television camera passed-- said "This is ridiculous." They were standing on dry land, still not being assisted.
Such a bungled administrative response. Helicopters could have dropped bottled water and sandwiches for people stranded. It took days for anything good to happen to help those Louisiana residents. You'd think by now we'd have this down to a science. I'll never forget the elderly woman in a wheelchair who died and a blanket was thrown over her as she remained in the hot sun.
The Bush administration seemed fearful of the residents, the local police more worried about looting--- and that Heckava Job Brownie guy was having dinner in a parish not affected, emailing about what clothes he was going to wear.
Remember during Hurricane Katrina when people were on the streets and a little boy --as the television camera passed-- said "This is ridiculous." They were standing on dry land, still not being assisted.
Such a bungled administrative response. Helicopters could have dropped bottled water and sandwiches for people stranded. It took days for anything good to happen to help those Louisiana residents. You'd think by now we'd have this down to a science. I'll never forget the elderly woman in a wheelchair who died and a blanket was thrown over her as she remained in the hot sun.
The Bush administration seemed fearful of the residents, the local police more worried about looting--- and that Heckava Job Brownie guy was having dinner in a parish not affected, emailing about what clothes he was going to wear.
Almost everyone I know who has moved there has done so for the weather.
3
Weeks and weeks without power? Sheesh. What a nightmare. In remembering living through several days-long power outages over the past few years, one of which in mid-summer, life without power is very, very difficult. Hopefully those who decided not to leave Florida will be able to cope and have sufficient drinking water and food to make it through OK until power is restored.
Perhaps more, not less, of the state should have been under evacuation orders before the storm hit.
Perhaps more, not less, of the state should have been under evacuation orders before the storm hit.
3
Houston and South Florida are severely overdeveloped, a move supported by politicians who want to "grow the tax base" instead of raising taxes. Now they want the rest of us to bail them out, repeatedly. I'm all for providing help with relocation, not for rebuilding in areas that have flooded.
10
"The United States is now $20 trillion in monstrous debt."
Sometimes it helps to write out "$20 trillion" using numerals instead of words: $20,000,000,000,000. There -- seem even bigger now?
To be $20,000,000,000,000 in debt means you're borrowing money that has to be paid back some day, by someone. That "someone," of course, is our children and grandchildren -- unless they too kick the can down the road by "rolling over" that $20,000,000,000,000 so that THEIR children and grandchildren get stuck with the tab.
If someone "borrows" money, spends it today, insists that YOU must pay it back some time in the future, but doesn't ask you whether that's OK with you, wouldn't you say they've stolen that money from you? I would.
Most of us understand that borrowing sometimes is appropriate. For example, farmers typically borrow from banks to buy seeds in the spring. But those farmers pay back those loans when the seeds turn into crops that get sold in the fall; they don't just "roll over" that debt to future years. (Actually, many farmers DO roll it over these days, but that' another story.) What bothers many of us, though, is that the federal government doesn't just borrow to smooth out cash flows. It keeps adding to the national debt, year after year after year.
Rejecting increases on the debt ceiling isn't responsible behavior; that amounts to reneging on a debt you've already incurred. The proper course is to stop incurring the debt.
Sometimes it helps to write out "$20 trillion" using numerals instead of words: $20,000,000,000,000. There -- seem even bigger now?
To be $20,000,000,000,000 in debt means you're borrowing money that has to be paid back some day, by someone. That "someone," of course, is our children and grandchildren -- unless they too kick the can down the road by "rolling over" that $20,000,000,000,000 so that THEIR children and grandchildren get stuck with the tab.
If someone "borrows" money, spends it today, insists that YOU must pay it back some time in the future, but doesn't ask you whether that's OK with you, wouldn't you say they've stolen that money from you? I would.
Most of us understand that borrowing sometimes is appropriate. For example, farmers typically borrow from banks to buy seeds in the spring. But those farmers pay back those loans when the seeds turn into crops that get sold in the fall; they don't just "roll over" that debt to future years. (Actually, many farmers DO roll it over these days, but that' another story.) What bothers many of us, though, is that the federal government doesn't just borrow to smooth out cash flows. It keeps adding to the national debt, year after year after year.
Rejecting increases on the debt ceiling isn't responsible behavior; that amounts to reneging on a debt you've already incurred. The proper course is to stop incurring the debt.
2
We have been wondering in Europe - Why don't the US put their electricity cables in the ground like we do? The damage during storms would be reduced to almost nothing.
12
One reason is that (especially in Republican majority states) people don't like to spend money on their infrastructure. They seem to prefer spending money on cleaning up and rebuilding the same weak, poorly designed, structures over and over in areas that flood. Hard to believe, isn't it?
1
Because as I understand it some places are too sandy and thus incompatible with underground cables. -- thegamesmenplay.com
1
Scott Pruitt (head of the EPA) really needs to get on the ball. If 7th graders can understand that CO2 is a greenhouse gas, I'm sure he should be able to!
7
As Upton Sinclair wrote,
“It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.”
“It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.”
5
None of us will survive well, if Republicans do not stop lying about climate
change and other issues.
change and other issues.
2
Thank heavens that we have Ben Carson as head of Housing and Urban Development. His qualifications, oops, qualification is that he owns a house (with a painting of him together with Jesus). Floridians will need all the help they can get.
13
It's nice to live in war sunny place. All these retirees who migrated to florida have woke up to a horror. I know it has been years since last large Hurricane hit Florida. I'll take the North East Winters, than to be knee deep in water and no power for who who knows how long in my 70's and 80s.
10
Up north, my property is knee-deep in water several times a year. But it's frozen, so I just shovel it off the driveway and go about my business.
7
But a lot of them come back when they need care. . .
"The evacuation that prevented a higher death toll was unnecessary because the death toll wasn't high enough!" - That is a distillation of the right-wing pretzel logic making the rounds right now. Thanks for the laughs, boys!
12
Lenders typically DO require flood insurance if a home is in a flood plain -- right now, today. (Even if the home is not, in fact, as I can attest from personal experience: I struggled years ago to get a mortgage loan on the house where I now live because the lender insisted I get flood insurance. I finally got the lender to waive that requirement by pointing out that I live on top of a hill several hundred feet above San Francisco Bay; I doubt there's been a flood here for several million years.)
The Times pointed out in another recent article that the federal government got into the flood insurance business after (the Times wrote) private insurance companies pulled out of it in 1968. FEMA now guarantees 5 million flood insurance policies, with $25 billion exposure. (It's not really fair to say FEMA "insures" these policy holders, or even guarantees insurance coverage. FEMA just guarantees that insurance premiums will be paid, and only if the policy holder qualifies. Contrary to what the NYT reported, private insurance companies are still in the flood insurance business -- big time, in fact.)
What strikes me as sensible:
1. Lenders continue to require flood insurance if the mortgaged property is in an area where a flood risk exists.
2. The federal government not guarantee flood-insurance premium payments.
The likely result will be that flood-prone properties will decline in price. Conversely, properties AWAY from flood zones will increase in price. Sounds right to me.
The Times pointed out in another recent article that the federal government got into the flood insurance business after (the Times wrote) private insurance companies pulled out of it in 1968. FEMA now guarantees 5 million flood insurance policies, with $25 billion exposure. (It's not really fair to say FEMA "insures" these policy holders, or even guarantees insurance coverage. FEMA just guarantees that insurance premiums will be paid, and only if the policy holder qualifies. Contrary to what the NYT reported, private insurance companies are still in the flood insurance business -- big time, in fact.)
What strikes me as sensible:
1. Lenders continue to require flood insurance if the mortgaged property is in an area where a flood risk exists.
2. The federal government not guarantee flood-insurance premium payments.
The likely result will be that flood-prone properties will decline in price. Conversely, properties AWAY from flood zones will increase in price. Sounds right to me.
5
Sounds bad to us!
We want prices to be radically higher in flood-prone areas, not less!
Indeed, few people should live in flood-prone locations in general and those that do should have to comply with strict building codes, appropriate regulation, good nearby wetlands, flood mitigation efforts, limited development, and aggressive policies to combat global warming!
We want prices to be radically higher in flood-prone areas, not less!
Indeed, few people should live in flood-prone locations in general and those that do should have to comply with strict building codes, appropriate regulation, good nearby wetlands, flood mitigation efforts, limited development, and aggressive policies to combat global warming!
3
The photograph taken by Johnny Milano of the sculpture surrounded by flood waters in Jacksonville is extraordinary. It so powerfully depicts the awe-inducing might and jaw-dropping havoc wrought by Hurricane Irma. I can't stop staring at the image. Outstanding photo journalism. Bravo!
18
Yes, it is worthy of a Pulitzer prize for photojournalism. Superb work!
1
Given that most of Florida except for Dade county is deeply Republican and Tea Party republican at that, I trust all who are against government aid for others will do the honorable thing and refuse all Federal aid themselves. At the least, they should have to wear signs until the next Federal election declaring their hypocrisy and inconstancy.
22
This storm was totally overhyped by media. I am almost positive one weather guy had someone off to the side of the camera throwing water in at one point - wouldn't put it past them.
Right before Katrina struck New Orleans there was another storm earlier that summer (can't recall the name) that was over-hypted. We were told to evacuate. We did. The storm never came. I believe this was part of the reason many did not evacuate for Katrina - and paid with their lives.
Right before Katrina struck New Orleans there was another storm earlier that summer (can't recall the name) that was over-hypted. We were told to evacuate. We did. The storm never came. I believe this was part of the reason many did not evacuate for Katrina - and paid with their lives.
3
So, what was the overhyped part?
Was it the 6 million homes without electricity--possibly for weeks--or the 50 billion dollars in damage or the 11 people that died in the US so far?
Had the steering currents for the storm pushed the storm 50 miles to the east, the storm surge could have really devastated the east coast in addition to the wind and rain damage.
Chance with such storms is not something to bet on when presenting information to the public.
Was it the 6 million homes without electricity--possibly for weeks--or the 50 billion dollars in damage or the 11 people that died in the US so far?
Had the steering currents for the storm pushed the storm 50 miles to the east, the storm surge could have really devastated the east coast in addition to the wind and rain damage.
Chance with such storms is not something to bet on when presenting information to the public.
20
Well, Doc, the solution isn't for the media to ignore potentially dangerous storms. The solution is for people to take every evacuation recommendation seriously. Remember, storms are unpredictable and forecasts don't always pan out. That doesn't mean the next one won't be accurate.
12
It's sort of like this: MAYBE the probability of the storm being exactly as predicted is 1%; but if it happened to as intense and following the original track, and you were in it, your odds of being injured, or marooned without hope of rescue for days on end were 99%. It doesn't matter to others what you do as long as you do not put anyone else at risk.
Do you really think that NOAA was "hyping" the information it provided? That they invented a few twists in the storyline?
The media always hypes everything that attracts attention and runs the same stuff repeatedly. You don't have to watch or listen. But among the hype were some messages to keep people safer.
So far, it doesn't appear that there have been a great number of storm related deaths in this country. Don't you think some of the hype helped prevent them?
Do you really think that NOAA was "hyping" the information it provided? That they invented a few twists in the storyline?
The media always hypes everything that attracts attention and runs the same stuff repeatedly. You don't have to watch or listen. But among the hype were some messages to keep people safer.
So far, it doesn't appear that there have been a great number of storm related deaths in this country. Don't you think some of the hype helped prevent them?
The United States is now $20 trillion in monstrous debt. When are the oblivious citizens of this country going to wake up and realize we are not the wealthy country we used to be. We have money for a Cadillac military and endless war-making or we have money for a major rebuilding of our climate-change affected infrastructure, but my fellow Americans, we do not have money for BOTH.
15
I think I'm seeing a solution here!
"Let me first say, I will make a contribution to the relief effort. ... Meanwhile, our Caribbean neighbors fared much worse."
How about this? Rather than kvetch about the one-percenters in Florida unfairly receiving your relief donation, find some organization that's focused on helping our Caribbean neighbors -- especially an organization that doesn't help one-percenters who own fancy vacation homes there?
Win-win!
"Let me first say, I will make a contribution to the relief effort. ... Meanwhile, our Caribbean neighbors fared much worse."
How about this? Rather than kvetch about the one-percenters in Florida unfairly receiving your relief donation, find some organization that's focused on helping our Caribbean neighbors -- especially an organization that doesn't help one-percenters who own fancy vacation homes there?
Win-win!
7
That's a lovely thought, has it occurred to you that we would have more money to donate to the people who really need it if we weren't subsidizing the wealthy?
We need to stop rebuilding some of these communities. If we really believe storms are going to be more frequent and violent why on earth would we, as a society, rebuild anything in the Florida Keys? Move everyone out now. Same thing for much of coastal Florida. Why should we spend a hundred billion dollars to rebuild communities that long-term are not sustainable?
15
Can't say I agree with this:
"Many will be without power for weeks. If they relied on windmills and solar panels, it might be months."
It wasn't the power SOURCES that caused outages. It was power DISTRIBUTION that failed (power lines knocked down by trees -- that sort of thing). One may fault the power companies (or not, as one sees fit) for power-distribution problems resulting from Irma, but those problems would have arisen whether the power had been produced by windmills, solar panels, coal or oil.
"Many will be without power for weeks. If they relied on windmills and solar panels, it might be months."
It wasn't the power SOURCES that caused outages. It was power DISTRIBUTION that failed (power lines knocked down by trees -- that sort of thing). One may fault the power companies (or not, as one sees fit) for power-distribution problems resulting from Irma, but those problems would have arisen whether the power had been produced by windmills, solar panels, coal or oil.
7
There are very few wind-turbines in Florida, mean wind speeds are low.
The advancing technologies and reduced costs of the really big turbines coming may change that, but so far wind-power hasn't been economic in FL.
Building codes require that attached PV meet the design wind loads; so if the building hasn't failed due to wind loads, the PV on it should be OK. The exception might be damage from blowing debris., or falling trees etc.
The advancing technologies and reduced costs of the really big turbines coming may change that, but so far wind-power hasn't been economic in FL.
Building codes require that attached PV meet the design wind loads; so if the building hasn't failed due to wind loads, the PV on it should be OK. The exception might be damage from blowing debris., or falling trees etc.
Under Florida's authoritarian legislative and administrative government the last 8 years, laws were passed to take away local and county government limiting development, the Department of Community Affairs was disseminated which worked on local and sustainable growth, continued deforestation and removal of regulations of pollution controls, defunding of infastructure and utility controls limiting underground utilities and limiting solar installiation, refusal of high speed rail money for entire state which would have helped in evacuations and funded job growth and spent on building up of cruise ports that many legislators and government officials are indirectly invested, refusal to talk climate change or health care for many poor floridians who could not afford to evacuate, high costs of insurance to support the million dollar castles in Naples and Palm Beach and Miami Beach, refusal to talk state income tax instead of burdening millions with increasing mortgage taxes. But Florida Republicans now will ask for Federal Help although supporting cutting of FEMA budget and all social programs. Becoming people focused after the fact must be a humble moment...and moments are forgotten. People need to vote for community and common good for all..and that means looking a state income tax that would tax all equally and fund many of the local needs of counties and cities!.
4
People who refused to obey the so-called 'mandatory' evacuation order should be charged for a subsequent evacuation. I bet if we decided that people who refused to evacuate would be ineligible for federal assistance, a lot more people would decide to obey mandatory orders.
4
They should have been given the same choice that the homeless of Miami were given - go to a shelter or go to mandatory psychiatric evaluation.
1
People with the big bucks want their big houses and high-rises RIGHT on the water. Frankly, nobody can afford that anymore. The damage is too costly for EVERYONE. Coastlines need their natural barriers. Houses need to be farther away from the coast and SMALLER.
12
"Don't think about climate change at a time like this!" Oops. Doggone it, I thought about it.
5
According to Rush, this never happened, right? Wasn't this all just FAKE NEWS?
4
Totally overhype storm, weather hysteria egged on by global warming alarmism. Hardly any deaths (9 people a day die in Florida due to car accidents). Where is the storm surge? Where is the catastrophic damage? All fake news. It's just tree limbs down. It's a total pain because AC is out and it's in the 90s, that does not constitute a disaster.
5
Would you stop? Forecasting these storms is based on probability. It's not an exact science. Many scenarios showed the path escaping land, others showed direct hits.
7
People, this is what happens when you let your political opinions warp your perceptions and disable your reasoning powers. Take it as a cautionary tale.
5
Hardly any deaths--could that be because 6.3 million evacuated? The catastrophic damage is affecting others--that shouldn't make you blind to it.
5
Does anyone know of The No Name pub on Big Pine key is still there?
The media is afraid to talk about climate change, but notice that Irma and Jose formed as powerful storms in the mid-Atlantic and not, as was more common, in the warmer waters of the Gulf Stream. This gives the storms longer life and may well add two new colors to the NOAA wind speed maps.
We deregulate the businesses contributing to these disasters and then underfund repairs for the communities we destroy by public policy.
This arrogance is the copyrighted brand of the Republican Party, alone in the world.
We deregulate the businesses contributing to these disasters and then underfund repairs for the communities we destroy by public policy.
This arrogance is the copyrighted brand of the Republican Party, alone in the world.
8
Let me first say, I will make a contribution to the relief effort. That having been said, the very government officials screaming for help are the ones who want to 1) secede from the Union ( Texas), 2) get way more back from the Feds than they give, and 3) ironically, want those same feds out of their lives.
Meanwhile, our Caribbean neighbors fared much worse. And all the one percenters in FL and Texas and elsewhere would do well to stop whining about loses they can afford or are insured by, and open their wallets for the Caribbean indigenous population who have neither funds nor insurance but serve all the American society ladies margaritas when they lounge on the nice white beaches these same Caribbeans call home.
Finally, Pat Robertson said years ago after Katrina that it was God who was punishing New Orleans for its decadent lifestyle. So since all the areas affected by the two Hurricanes are mostly Trump territory, is God now not happy with those folks? We did this to ourselves ( ruining the climate) and the very people suffering and paying for it are those who can least afford it.
Meanwhile, our Caribbean neighbors fared much worse. And all the one percenters in FL and Texas and elsewhere would do well to stop whining about loses they can afford or are insured by, and open their wallets for the Caribbean indigenous population who have neither funds nor insurance but serve all the American society ladies margaritas when they lounge on the nice white beaches these same Caribbeans call home.
Finally, Pat Robertson said years ago after Katrina that it was God who was punishing New Orleans for its decadent lifestyle. So since all the areas affected by the two Hurricanes are mostly Trump territory, is God now not happy with those folks? We did this to ourselves ( ruining the climate) and the very people suffering and paying for it are those who can least afford it.
9
Has Rick Scott suggested building codes should be weakened? I hadn't heard this? Can you tell us where you heard it -- or did you just make it up?
"The building codes that were strengthened after Andrew made a huge difference this time. ... I guess sometimes government regulations DO make a difference. I hope Rick Scott acknowledges this..."
Some government regulations DO make a difference -- building codes, for example. They were pretty tough out here even before the 1989 earthquake, and got even tougher after it. They've added considerably to the cost of many remodeling projects, but I'm glad we have them.
But just because SOME regulations are good doesn't mean that ALL regulations are good. Some are; some aren't.
But back to Rick Scott, whom you brought up. Has he said that building codes in Florida should be weakened? I've never heard that. Have you, or did you just make that up?
"The building codes that were strengthened after Andrew made a huge difference this time. ... I guess sometimes government regulations DO make a difference. I hope Rick Scott acknowledges this..."
Some government regulations DO make a difference -- building codes, for example. They were pretty tough out here even before the 1989 earthquake, and got even tougher after it. They've added considerably to the cost of many remodeling projects, but I'm glad we have them.
But just because SOME regulations are good doesn't mean that ALL regulations are good. Some are; some aren't.
But back to Rick Scott, whom you brought up. Has he said that building codes in Florida should be weakened? I've never heard that. Have you, or did you just make that up?
3
Speaking of infrastructure... This would be a good opportunity to make a case for buried power lines.
8
“I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones.”--Einstein
This warning of the potential dark days consequences of a nuclear world war, described in this terrifying quote by Albert Einstein, might also be used metaphorically to describer what might eventually happen to humankind on this planet unless we wake up and do whatever is required to stop global warming.
According to most scientists, our warming planet (caused by human behavior) is the reason for increased and worsening natural disasters like drought and Wild Fires, a decline in arctic ice leading to a rise in sea level that's flooding low lying areas, as well as, warmer oceans providing fuel for hurricanes making them even more catastrophic like a Harvey and an Irma.
We must take this seriously. We must raise our voices and do whatever is necessary to reduce the extraordinary suffering and war-like displacement of our fellow Americans; our fellow humans caused by this "inconvenient truth.". If we fail to heed Mother Nature's warnings, the deadly consequences will most likely sooner or later visit us all in one way or another, and especially future generations.
This warning of the potential dark days consequences of a nuclear world war, described in this terrifying quote by Albert Einstein, might also be used metaphorically to describer what might eventually happen to humankind on this planet unless we wake up and do whatever is required to stop global warming.
According to most scientists, our warming planet (caused by human behavior) is the reason for increased and worsening natural disasters like drought and Wild Fires, a decline in arctic ice leading to a rise in sea level that's flooding low lying areas, as well as, warmer oceans providing fuel for hurricanes making them even more catastrophic like a Harvey and an Irma.
We must take this seriously. We must raise our voices and do whatever is necessary to reduce the extraordinary suffering and war-like displacement of our fellow Americans; our fellow humans caused by this "inconvenient truth.". If we fail to heed Mother Nature's warnings, the deadly consequences will most likely sooner or later visit us all in one way or another, and especially future generations.
5
"a long road"? Given global heating, this may happen every couple of years. The whole southeast coast needs not just 'rebuilding' but reengineering.
12
Yes, Patrick, I agree...AND we need to radically decrease our dependence on fossil fuels which help to "juice up" all of these deadly storms.
Besides making the earth warmer, coal and oil---especially the latter---create smoke that is toxic to breathe. Their extraction, transportation, refinement and distribution are also toxic to one degree or another.
We have to make a transition---rapidly---to a combination of wind, solar, solar thermal, tidal power, geothermal and other ways of generating power.
China is moving towards banning the internal combustion engine. Volvo has announced that they are going "all electric" in a few years and it is rumored that other companies are set to follow them.
Get with it, my fellow Americans. The time to take our ecological AND financial future into our own hands is here now---and so is the technology to help us successfully make that transition. Let's stop denying the obvious and become the global leaders on this now!
Besides making the earth warmer, coal and oil---especially the latter---create smoke that is toxic to breathe. Their extraction, transportation, refinement and distribution are also toxic to one degree or another.
We have to make a transition---rapidly---to a combination of wind, solar, solar thermal, tidal power, geothermal and other ways of generating power.
China is moving towards banning the internal combustion engine. Volvo has announced that they are going "all electric" in a few years and it is rumored that other companies are set to follow them.
Get with it, my fellow Americans. The time to take our ecological AND financial future into our own hands is here now---and so is the technology to help us successfully make that transition. Let's stop denying the obvious and become the global leaders on this now!
3
How are you going to "reengineer" this coast?
2
Yep, and yep:
"Building on the shoreline is made possible by government flood insurance."
The NYT ran an article about a week ago that explained how the federal government got into the flood insurance business after most private insurers pulled out in 1968. According to the article, there are now about 5 million policies out there. The Times didn't think it was a bad idea for the federal government to be in the flood insurance business. The article complained only that Congress hadn't actually funded the FEMA guarantees. (Maybe not, but guess what? The US government isn't going to renege on FEMA guarantees. They'll be honored, and taxpayers present and future will bear the cost.)
"It is time to rethink this and how it is mostly a handout to the rich."
Think so? Surely you know a lot of poor people who own homes along the coast. Don't you?
"Building on the shoreline is made possible by government flood insurance."
The NYT ran an article about a week ago that explained how the federal government got into the flood insurance business after most private insurers pulled out in 1968. According to the article, there are now about 5 million policies out there. The Times didn't think it was a bad idea for the federal government to be in the flood insurance business. The article complained only that Congress hadn't actually funded the FEMA guarantees. (Maybe not, but guess what? The US government isn't going to renege on FEMA guarantees. They'll be honored, and taxpayers present and future will bear the cost.)
"It is time to rethink this and how it is mostly a handout to the rich."
Think so? Surely you know a lot of poor people who own homes along the coast. Don't you?
6
Flood insurance is expensive. On a coastal property it can be very,very expensive- up to thousands of dollars more a year that people would have to find in a tight budget. In Texas maybe 80% did not have it because they weren't expecting the magnitude of the flood or couldn't afford it. I suspect it is the same for Florida. Unless a lender requires it, some will not get it for a number of reasons including costs. the huge costs of insurance are why a number of homes don't even have other hazard (including wind) insurance either. For example, mobile home (and there are many in Florida) wind coverage could be about 1300, that is a lot for someone living on a fixed incomes. So yes there are many poor people who own homes along the coast, and many of them are un or underinsured
2
Exactly. Live in "Paradise" and have the tax payer pick up the tab. Hmmm! Most people don't have the cash up front to get in to the game, and some people are simply not scammers. Sounds like a good deal. We need to have standards before insuring anyone and these standards have to be high. Trump is trying to rescind what's there and all the new proposals that are currently on the board to quantify and manage the risk. Combine what you say with those that never took the insurance, or couldn't really qualify, and it becomes a big tab, time after time, storm after storm. These places are all overdeveloped, so the costs to America keep rising and rising, like the water levels. You want to live there. Then you pay the costs, but it might be wiser to just turn these places in to a national shore line and end the agony. New standard: no building in a flood plane.
2
So? Why would the rest of America have to make up for their short fall?
1
We can play whack-a-mole with every hurricane that comes along by trying to save our coastal cities by constantly rebuilding their infrastructure, raising streets sidewalks, everything, and easily go broke in the process, or we can start thinking ahead. People understandably have an afinity for their homes, communities, and cultural identities, and is what matters to them, not climate change. Then one day a record hurricane hits, then another and another, worse and worse, until we can clearly see the trend into oblivion. We need to understand that climate change not only involves changes in the climate, but changes in food, shelter, and existence. There is a small window of opportunity for us to make milder changes now versus exponentially major ones later. I suggest we get there fast and without fuels from extinct fossils, lest we will become them.
57
I'm not in total disagreement about the issues with the government flood insurance program but if you are going to single out people living on the Gulf and Atlantic coasts, then I would suggest ALSO withholding government aide from the millions of middle class and upper middle class people who have moved east of places like Los Angeles and San Diego into areas that are prone to wildfires. They have no business living in steep canyons filled with dry fuel and yet the government undoubtedly helps with "disaster funds" when their homes burn up. Same with all the people who live in flood plains alongside rivers like the Mississippi, Ohio, etc. Probably should do the same for Californians living on fault lines. (I believe CA offered state-subsidized earthquake insurance.) Throw in the rich people living on the beaches of southern California — Malibu is RIGHT on the water and if there is a tsunami, I don't want taxpayers' money going to rebuild any expensive homes or replacing any sand. And not to pick on them because they are suffering now, many people in Houston are living in areas that should never have been paved over or built on. (Same with Orlando, btw.) When there is a natural disaster and FEMA rolls in, no matter the cause, we as taxpayers ultimately pay the price. But I'd rather have my tax dollars go to FEMA than many of the other options.
17
FEMA's policy is that every location in the country is subject to a disaster; there is no 'safe place'. We've got to build, but we can't build stupid.
3
I think it was the cyclone hurricane of 1928: back in the 1970s, a man told me about how his parents lashed him and his siblings to the tops of palm trees as the storm approached. He was the smallest and the only one of his family that survived. Entire communities were wiped out, thousands dead. For a little historical perspective on Irma, here's a link to the 1928 storm which, along with the 1926 Miami hurricane, pitched Florida into an early financial depression.
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sfl-ahurricane14sep14-story.html
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sfl-ahurricane14sep14-story.html
7
How quickly we forget. The Great Hurricane of '38 devastated the coastline of southern New England. Many, many hundreds of people were killed. If today something of same or similar impact hit, it would be cataclysmic. I worry about the nuclear power plants scattered right along side the water's edge. Just lethal sitting ducks waiting for a melt down.
8
No jim, Today we have things like the national weather service that can predict to a degree when these storms are going to effect us. In 1938 they didn't. Back then they went from reports on the wire service from places that hadn't already lost their service.
The main difference since 1938 is the construction that has occurred. It might be cataclysmic for property loss, but that property was put there deliberately, on the coast, in the flood zone.
The main difference since 1938 is the construction that has occurred. It might be cataclysmic for property loss, but that property was put there deliberately, on the coast, in the flood zone.
1
Hard to have much sympathy, when most of the extensive damage was done to luxurious recreational boats, beachfront property, and barrier islands. Floridians chose to build in dangerous places, and now they expect the federal government (which means everyone of us) to pay for their hubris.
8
Chino Hills sits atop the Chino Fault, a branch of the San Andreas Fault. There was an earthquake there as recently as 2008. I hope the citizens of Florida are kinder to residents impacted by the "big one" predicted to hit California (possibly devastating Chino Hills). We know not where it will strike or when, just like hurricanes. Our citizens need to show more kindness toward each other and less snarking, class warfare and blaming people for where they live.
When all the damage is assessed in Florida, I highly doubt that only the "1%" experienced property damage and losses. If that were so, the price tag of the storm would be quite low.
When all the damage is assessed in Florida, I highly doubt that only the "1%" experienced property damage and losses. If that were so, the price tag of the storm would be quite low.
9
I can only speak of Naples, but the most extensive damage has been to the inland communities. Most of the luxury beach front property has been built to withstand hurricane force winds and to some extent storm surges. Extreme weather can happen anywhere- you should try sympathy.
4
Susan -- there isn't any "National Earthquake Insurance Program" ...let alone one 30 B$ in debt right now, to the US taxpayer.
And earthquakes are not expected to increase, globally.
And why pick on Chino (in the LA Basin) as opposed to something closer to home in the Bay Area ... like Burlingame?
I don't know what your circumstances are, but a great deal of the Bay Area real estate is very expensive. I grew up in the Bay Area, could not possibly afford the home I grew up in, even though I am a PhD scientist/engineer.
I'm for helping people in need, but not paying off hugely expensive bad gambles. How about giving people 20 k$ or a half-year's salary, whichever is less, to make a new start?
And earthquakes are not expected to increase, globally.
And why pick on Chino (in the LA Basin) as opposed to something closer to home in the Bay Area ... like Burlingame?
I don't know what your circumstances are, but a great deal of the Bay Area real estate is very expensive. I grew up in the Bay Area, could not possibly afford the home I grew up in, even though I am a PhD scientist/engineer.
I'm for helping people in need, but not paying off hugely expensive bad gambles. How about giving people 20 k$ or a half-year's salary, whichever is less, to make a new start?
1
The building codes that were strengthened after Andrew made a huge difference this time.
I have family in high rises on the west coast whose buildings have hurricane-resistant glass, generators to power elevators and emergency lights, and critical equipment secured above expected flood levels. They came through fine (though they were also spared the worst of the storm). Roof straps and other upgraded building requirements probably kept much of the state from looking like the devastated islands in the Caribbean.
I guess sometimes government regulations DO make a difference. I hope Rick Scott acknowledges this as the state recovers. But I'm not holding my breath.
I have family in high rises on the west coast whose buildings have hurricane-resistant glass, generators to power elevators and emergency lights, and critical equipment secured above expected flood levels. They came through fine (though they were also spared the worst of the storm). Roof straps and other upgraded building requirements probably kept much of the state from looking like the devastated islands in the Caribbean.
I guess sometimes government regulations DO make a difference. I hope Rick Scott acknowledges this as the state recovers. But I'm not holding my breath.
40
The loss of life could have been so much worse. Or as the NYT puts it, a “bit of good fortune was the product of some meteorological luck.” That explanation reminds of the guy who was running late to a do-or-die business meeting; he circled the block several times but couldn’t find parking. Finally, in a panic he prayed, “Lord, please find me a parking spot and I promise to lead a better life.” Just then, he saw a car pulling out of a parking spot. The man looks upward and says, “Never mind, God, I found a space myself.”
9
Many will be without power for weeks. If they relied on windmills and solar panels, it might be months.
4
Not if they had their own panels or windmills! Local, independent power sources are more reliable than large distributed systems, if they are properly deployed.
5
Proof of this assertion?
3
Relying on any single system is a recipe for failure. Resilience comes from having redundancy built into the system. If residential electrical systems routinely included battery backups and means for connecting portable generators as part of their PV rooftop systems, all tied into the grid, we would have the best of all the systems. Utility grid goes down? Use the generator or battery power that had been stored from the sunshine of the week before.
Of course, I'm talking about high winds, not floods. We don't want to be running electrical systems in flooded homes.
By the way, I'm an engineer too, Master's in structural engineering, UC Berkeley.
Of course, I'm talking about high winds, not floods. We don't want to be running electrical systems in flooded homes.
By the way, I'm an engineer too, Master's in structural engineering, UC Berkeley.
3
It depends on where in Florida. Friends and family that live throughout florida report differences. In Tampa area, it is approaching two thirds of the population having power. Other locations, not so much I see fpl has restored about 1.6 million out of 2.8 million outages.
3
The trendiness of reporting on the hurricane disasters has been been more than evident. Meanwhile, over a million acres are burning in Montana, and it's being ignored.
10
Who did Montanans vote for? Oh yeah, they guy who said climate change is a hoax.
With that said, I'd suggest Montanans are ignoring it, too.
With that said, I'd suggest Montanans are ignoring it, too.
10
Who did Texas and Florida vote for? Same guy.
1
Who did Montanans vote for?
174,521 voted for Hillary Clinton. Not enough, but let's not oversimplify things. She nearly matched Trump in votes in Florida. This business of saying any state voted "for" someone is faulty thinking. People vote, individuals. We need to keep that in mind if we want to change things.
174,521 voted for Hillary Clinton. Not enough, but let's not oversimplify things. She nearly matched Trump in votes in Florida. This business of saying any state voted "for" someone is faulty thinking. People vote, individuals. We need to keep that in mind if we want to change things.
2
We cannot prevent hurricanes. They have been around for thousands of years. What we can do however, is stop reimbursing homeowners with beachfront property. My insurance rates and taxes should not go up because a select few want to "hog" the beach.
49
The model already exists to some extent in Hawaii, our 50th state, where no private party is allowed to "own" beachfront property. The beaches belong to all of us, regardless of how much money we have or don't have and it should be that way, worldwide.
2
I guess I don't understand what perhaps 10,000 people in the Keys didn't understand about "mandatory evacuation". I have been led to believe from news accounts that the Keys were under a mandatory evacuation order. Why on earth would anyone, let alone perhaps 10,000 people plan to remain for the hurricane? And now extensive assistance may well be needed to help them and evacuate them to a safer locale? I sure hope they are billed for this.
I guess there are so many things I don't get about the reaction to this storm. While storm track forecasting has much improved it's still imperfect. We are in much better shape than back in the old days such as when a hurricane hit Galveston without warning. Still, if it looks like it's coming your way why not leave? What exactly do you think you will accomplish by hunkering down to "save your stuff"? Take the irreplaceable photos and whatnot with you and just leave; stuff is just stuff in the end.
The other thing I don't get is that I'm afraid it will all be business as usual, rebuilding the coasts but this time maybe "stronger". Perhaps we need to recognize that the coasts shouldn't be built on? Barrier islands shouldn't be built on. Maybe we could leave these places unsettled and just use them recreationally? We can camp there, stay with RV's etc but no major permanent structures allowed.
I guess there are so many things I don't get about the reaction to this storm. While storm track forecasting has much improved it's still imperfect. We are in much better shape than back in the old days such as when a hurricane hit Galveston without warning. Still, if it looks like it's coming your way why not leave? What exactly do you think you will accomplish by hunkering down to "save your stuff"? Take the irreplaceable photos and whatnot with you and just leave; stuff is just stuff in the end.
The other thing I don't get is that I'm afraid it will all be business as usual, rebuilding the coasts but this time maybe "stronger". Perhaps we need to recognize that the coasts shouldn't be built on? Barrier islands shouldn't be built on. Maybe we could leave these places unsettled and just use them recreationally? We can camp there, stay with RV's etc but no major permanent structures allowed.
64
I totally agree that barrier islands should not be built on. This is a problem all along the Atlantic coast. They are just spits of sand really, and nature intended them to be free to move around in reaction to winds, tides and storms. Beautiful, useful and ephemeral. I also wonder at people who are willing to risk death to save stuff. However, as population grows in these areas with only a few, sometimes only one road out, timely evacuation for all becomes impossible. And when storms are so huge and their movements so unpredictable, how do people even know where they should flee to? Numerous people left in good time heading to places that were supposed to be safe only to find the storm's path had changed and those places were inundated. The only certain pattern was that coastal areas and low lying places were inundated, even places hundreds of miles from the eye of the storm. Most of the big cities are on the coast. Where to go?
2
This was not a drill.
8
The Con Don and his Robber Baron friends are ecstatic about the storm. MONEY for them. The Robber Baron governors of Texas and Florida are going to make their BIG money masters very happy by rewarding the "clean-up" and "reconstruction" contracts to them at extremely inflated prices. Perhaps The Con Don will make sure the Russian government, through a shell company, has the "rebuilding" contract on his Florida/ Texas properties.
It's OUR money they are throwing around ladies and gentlemen. OUR hard-earned taxpayer dollars. OUR hard-earned 401K dollars. OUR consumer dollars. They intend to bill us for the "repairs and reconstruction" and pocket the immense profits. Profit out of tragedy. Isn't that the "American" way? Let the "little people" suffer - who cares?
Florida should not "be". New Orleans should not "be". They encroach on Mother Nature and SHE doesn't like it and continually tries to purge them. And WE get to pay the costs for all the "retirees" to have beachfront property. Those angry Americans who voted for The Con Don and the despicable Florida/Texas governors. To top it off they whine because "the government" isn't moving fast enough to "save" them. It boggles the mind.
Now one of the richest men in the world - Richard Branson - wants The United States to come up with a Marshall plan to "rebuild" the Caribbean - playground of the rich. NO. HIStory of greed, death, destruction goes on and on until WE THE PEOPLE stop it.
It's OUR money they are throwing around ladies and gentlemen. OUR hard-earned taxpayer dollars. OUR hard-earned 401K dollars. OUR consumer dollars. They intend to bill us for the "repairs and reconstruction" and pocket the immense profits. Profit out of tragedy. Isn't that the "American" way? Let the "little people" suffer - who cares?
Florida should not "be". New Orleans should not "be". They encroach on Mother Nature and SHE doesn't like it and continually tries to purge them. And WE get to pay the costs for all the "retirees" to have beachfront property. Those angry Americans who voted for The Con Don and the despicable Florida/Texas governors. To top it off they whine because "the government" isn't moving fast enough to "save" them. It boggles the mind.
Now one of the richest men in the world - Richard Branson - wants The United States to come up with a Marshall plan to "rebuild" the Caribbean - playground of the rich. NO. HIStory of greed, death, destruction goes on and on until WE THE PEOPLE stop it.
60
Seattle should not be, it's built over a major earthquake fault, goes right through lake union and downtown. And we live there, a very liberal city, what's your excuse about that?
9
There are many poor people living in Florida. They are not all millionaires and billionaires. I attended school in Florida years ago and know that not all its citizens live in mansions. It has not changed. There are neighborhoods all over Florida that are inhabited by lower and middle class people. They need our help and I thought the liberals were all about helping the less fortunate. I guess not all are.
It could be you njglea or me who might need financial assistance some day after we experience a disaster. I hope it never happens to you or me but you never know. I am sure we would want the government to help us. I know I would.
It could be you njglea or me who might need financial assistance some day after we experience a disaster. I hope it never happens to you or me but you never know. I am sure we would want the government to help us. I know I would.
7
What about those who are not rich who live there all the time? Without tourism they will be left with no jobs. Many have lived there for generations. Are we-wealthier protectorates-to abandon people in need?
2
Over the coming years and decades the invisible hand will have a force greater than Irma. After a few more major hurricanes in as many years, Floridians will have had enough power outages, flooding, and rebuilding. Real estate prices will plummet, people will leave, and Florida's pro-fossil-fuel, anti-science political influence will decline. It's as inevitable as climate change itself.
17
That narrative is repeated every hurricane, that's the only thing inevitable here. No mass exodus from the gulf or east coast is ever going to happen.
4
People will leave? Inevitable?
I'm not one to predict the future, but Florida had a population of 13.65 million when Hurricane Andrew hit in 1992, and it has a population of 20.6 million today.
I'm not one to predict the future, but Florida had a population of 13.65 million when Hurricane Andrew hit in 1992, and it has a population of 20.6 million today.
Michael, you are missing it. People do leave after hurricanes. It's just that there have always been "a sucker born every minute."
1
Hey Rick Scott. I trust that you'll turn down aid dollars from Washington like you did turn down Medicaid. Texas and Florida be proud and put away the tin can.
81
To be clear, the public and the hurricane "Experts," Have tracked and attempted to measure FOUR major Southern states, not three. While perhaps the least of the four, Anyone who (x=broken key) uestion's Harvey's destructive power should consult a Gulf Coast Texan! And nearly all know the difference between three and four. Have we ever recorded FOUR hurricanes within Ten Days? If so, it was before I cared and I do not recall.
Many will dismiss the idea of Climate Change,, bit if that is wrong, then what is it? How else would you explain it to your Grand Kids? Many will dismiss the idea as simply wrong, bit I do not think so. More than anyone, I hope that this is a long-term, yet temporary situation. Within our lifetimes, we will not know - an We should be trying to fix some problems, NOW.
Many will dismiss the idea of Climate Change,, bit if that is wrong, then what is it? How else would you explain it to your Grand Kids? Many will dismiss the idea as simply wrong, bit I do not think so. More than anyone, I hope that this is a long-term, yet temporary situation. Within our lifetimes, we will not know - an We should be trying to fix some problems, NOW.
4
Having storms occur back to back within days of peak hurricane activity (September 10) is less odd than going 12 years without landfall in the US of a major storm.
Emotion clouds science.
Emotion clouds science.
4
Building on the shoreline is made possible by government flood insurance. It is time to rethink this and how it is mostly a handout to the rich. Climate change shows that building on the shoreline is only going to become more vulnerable.
Also in light of the vast power failures, it is sad to see that there is not widespread use of solar power, to eliminate more power lines.
32
On the issue of solar power, our main electricity provider (Alabama Power) actively DISCOURAGES the use of solar panels by penalizing you if you install them and also want to be connected to the power grid. They charge you a commercial rate, which is much higher than a household rate. Not sure about our rural electric co-op. That being said, with as many straight-line winds and tornado warnings we have, not to mention lightning, the idea of having expensive solar panels on my roof seems like a high cost risk. I had them in CA but it was cost effective because the state government offered an incentive program and the electrical companies were willing to buy back power from us.
4
More solar panels would be a good thing. A more appropriate and cost effective measure first would be to have the power lines underground. Out of sight, out of harms way, no costly and timely effort to restore power, no danger to the public with downed power lines. What is there not to like about that?
1
As I look out my balcony, I see quite a few solar panels on rooftops. It would not take a very strong wind to blow them off of the roof and be back to no power. Fortunately, we do not get hail, tornadoes, hurricanes, high-winds, or even thunder and lightning except in very rare cases. Personally I keep a solar powered battery in my earthquake kit along with a water filter so when the big quake hits I will at least be able to light a string of lights, recharge laptops and cellphones. Sadly, the battery will not run my espresso maker so I do not know how I will cope but I will survive somehow.
our vicinity (as were many others) was out of power for 2 - 4 weeks in some areas after a derachio came thru in 2012. weather happens. no one to blame. we bought a generator.
3
What do you do if your generator is flooded?
8
or run out of gas to run it?
I have a solar powered battery in my earthquake kit. The company I bought it from makes many sizes and models. I spent a year once living in a Seattle park with the battery as my only power source and it worked even in Seattle winter weather. I bought the smallest kit the company sells and they go all the way up to running refrigerators and medical equipment. And they are a LOT quieter than a generator.
From the west coast of Florida, it could hardly have gone better. The exception of course is Naples and Marco Island. The rest of the west coast suffered some wind damage but very little water damage. Most of us were hunkered down for this storm like no other. All of our preparations paid off with very little damage to most of the suburban developments down here. We hope though that this is the last hurricane we will see for awhile.
8
How exactly did your preparation affect the course of the storm or its diminishing intensity? And don't think we didn't notice your "suburban" dog whistle.
3
Please don't see everything as political. Our preparations helped mitigate our damages, not the course of the storm. And there were no "dog whistles" in my comment.
3
With all these intense hurricanes caused by global warming, people need to move away from coastal cities. It will only get worse, and the government can't keep paying billions to rebuild every year.
14
Uh, Mel. Isn't San Diego a coastal city?
2
I live in Delray Beach on the water in the wintertime. I followed the storm waiting for the disaster that everyone was predicting to happen in my area including the Governor. I could not find any information other than a map with colored circles covering all of Florida and a few reporters standing in puddles of water with wind at their backs. I could see no destruction in my area although they just kept up their disaster mode panicking everybody. A few days later, we had friends visit our place and it looked like it always has, nothing happened. We even had power. It reminded me of the folk tale Chicken Little.
4
It was not a case of "chicken little". Authorities had to issue those warnings in advance of the approaching storm, because it was very powerful and very large. But Irma veered west ... storms can do that. So Delray was spared. Many places were not. Consider yourself lucky. That's it.
9
Because of the incorrect forecast and the unpredictability of the storm, the next hurricane that is forecast to strike our area will unfortunately be ignored.
How's Mar-A-Lago?
14
I assume the question is facetious.
Who cares? If it did get damaged, no doubt POTUS would be the first in line for federal aid.
Who cares? If it did get damaged, no doubt POTUS would be the first in line for federal aid.
13
yes .. all that "pure gold" that was destroyed....
1
Please more info on Florida east coast
6
agreed. It wasn't as dramatic but there was serious flooding, and it's hard to tell how serious.
3
Well. I am not sure about any unique hurricane event, as hurricanes represent a natural phenomenon that have been occuring for probably eons of time. My opinion is that the most devasting winds this year have been blowing thru the press corps. So much hyperventilating and irrational opinions about climate and weather, some how connected to american guilt and corporate greed and oil and this and that.......Category 5!!!
5
Yeah. Scientists don't know nothing! Limbaugh knows it all!
10
You fail to grasp my comment.
Rush is not denying climate change.
He is denying that it is America's fault.
He also is attempting to undermine the DNC's narrow political agenda of using Climate Change as a pretext for imposing more taxation and regulation on US business.
Rush is not denying climate change.
He is denying that it is America's fault.
He also is attempting to undermine the DNC's narrow political agenda of using Climate Change as a pretext for imposing more taxation and regulation on US business.
Here some 25 miles from Center Of Atlanta, GA. there was essentially no wind over 35 mph and very slight rain and absolutely no other side effects etc. All in all, there was no need for County Court House and other facilities to shut down .Of course FL has some major damage , but all in all except of a few select areas, this storm was not much different then others at this time of hurricane season. Notwithstanding that Climate Change in fact is indeed happening and the worst is come. All we can hope is that this marred, nation, that is politically divided, polarized will wake up to realize that the likes of Trump and his entourage is not the kind of Governing that this nation needs in this time and age in our history.
23
The worst is over? This is the beginning of what is the new normal. More powerful storms, much more frequently, more extremes of weather, drought, flooding, hurricanes, tornadoes, blizzards, wildfires, and earthquakes. We must change while we still can, there will be more and it will be worse. We need to stop pretending, we have reached the tipping point.
10
Didn't the poster write "the worst is [yet to] come," not that it's "over"?
1
We taxpayers should help rebuild/replace the primary residences of those victims who live inland. (Wealthier) people who choose to build/rent oceanfront in harm's way, especially second and third vacation homes, should be left totally on their own - their insurance or investment portfolios will pick up the pieces, or in some cases LOCAL property tax funds will help out. I'm sick of the poor having to bail out the rich under the guise of "FEDERAL Government" Assistance. We the people are the government. The government has no money of its own. It extorts it from us in the form of taxes, taken from the poor and middle class to further enrich the wealthy.
141
Full time residents should have priority, let owners of second+ homes and rental property wait.
9
Perhaps, Ms. Garratt, full-time residents should live somewhere else. I can't afford very many more hurricanes, can you?
Why should rental properties wait? Not all full time residents own their own homes!
1
Even after the storm is over and the damage is nothing compared to the hype the hype continues. Look at the struggle to find damage in the photos. Love the one of the broken window in Miami. Wow a broken window. I am sure everyone is happy they left Miami after seeing that window.
3
The Keys are a mess and look at other parts of FLA as well. What about not having power, water for possibly weeks? The elderly and others who can stand 100 plus temps without AC and those who need power to survive and water (even for showers and toilets in some areas). There's enough damage -- glad I left and would do it again.
16
Having survived three major hurricanes, I can tell you there is nothing hyperbolic about them. In Florida, the after-effects will be disastrous. No electricity for weeks is a real prospect in a high heat-high humidity state in that part of the world and something that a northern state like Wisconsin will likely never have to face. Hype or not, the disaster inflicted by Irma is real.
79
Well in Sandy, I was without electricity for 13 days. When you have oil heat, unless you have your own generator, you lose heat and hot water. How about compassion for others?
34
Every rational thinking person on the planet has come to accept that climate change is a reality and the seas are rising. That said, maybe it's time to stop building right on the oceanfront. If there are wealthy folks (who else can afford oceanfront?) who want to ignore reality to get their picture window view, let them deal with the consequences when reality comes crashing through the pretty picture window.
101
So, is it time to have a rational discussion regarding Looting, why amoral people take advantage of people when they are vulnerable.
10
Which group of Looters are you talking about?
Those who are down on their luck and take / steal a crust from an abandoned shop?
Or those developers and city planners who forewent standards to save a few dollars?
Those who are down on their luck and take / steal a crust from an abandoned shop?
Or those developers and city planners who forewent standards to save a few dollars?
105
Or we could just not listen to the Republican talking points.
35
The ones who steal sneakers and TVs and if an investigation shows corrupt city planners, those people too
5
No one is reporting on Orlando. Why not? It's major city in Florida as well.
4
There were three paragraphs on Orlando at 8:45 a.m. It's in Orange County.
2
Because it hit us as of four and hit them as a one, it was just a nice thunderstorm for Orlando, much bigger deal for us in Miami
4
Reports show that Orlando had 80 mph winds as the eye passed just west of the city. More than a "nice thunderstorm." eh?
Congratulations to FEMA, on handling both Harvey and Irma without major incident. Local and state leaders have performed amazingly. Private citizens have jumped in, to help their neighbors. From top to bottom, this restores my faith in our society.
Stay strong Florida - we Texans know what you're going through!
Stay strong Florida - we Texans know what you're going through!
27
I see a common theme among Floridians that is encouraging. Rather than being disgruntled about evacuating away from a storm that wasn't as bad as anticipated, they wisely acknowledge that they dodged a bullet and were very lucky. This bodes well for public reaction to future storms.
29
And as long as we pretend global warming is a hoax, we'll have more and more vicious storms. Mother Nature's maiden name is Karma.
26
That last line wins the Internet for today, and perhaps for the entire hurricane season.
The commoners who are probably the most affected by the storm get it. The know nothing governor, Rick Scott however will remain in denial because the donor class that supports him demands it. In the next election Floridians need to remind him that they are the ones he needs to answer to not his donor s.
Our thoughts and prayers go out to everyone in Florida as we grabble with 150,000 homes ruined and over 58,000 businesses wiped out in Houston alone.
12
William, I'm sorry for all the devastation that Harvey wrought on Texas so please encourage your fellow staters to not build on wetlands, marshes, landfilled bayous and the like. Greedy shortsighted developers and weak zoning decision makers made this much much worse than it needed to be.
The reason no one has died from the massive Eagle Creek Fire in the Columbia River Gorge is that we will not let developers build ridiculous projects that they keep trying to push there. Very few people actually live in the Gorge and that's how we're going to keep it.
The reason no one has died from the massive Eagle Creek Fire in the Columbia River Gorge is that we will not let developers build ridiculous projects that they keep trying to push there. Very few people actually live in the Gorge and that's how we're going to keep it.
14
Just think how bad the damage would have been if global warming/climate change was real and not fake news. The people of Florida don't need a sarcastic remark, but all of us need the U.S. government and president to recognize the scientists' prediction that these storms will become more frequent. Global warming, they say, doesn't cause hurricanes, but increases the intensity. In any case, what would we have to lose to take steps to reduce warming? And how can our government continue to fund rebuilding in coastal areas, particularly if real issues aren't addressed and dealt with?
79
I just read a promoted-and-paid-for piece on the NYTimes site about how Florida is expecting to become the new IT and spaceport experts of the world. Lots of investment and lots of profit. It made me laugh. Nine million people, probably many more, were out of electricity during these latest weather events. How do you promote such a backward state as Florida, that can't even keep its power going, as a powerhouse of profit? Well, I guess if you're following the model that the state is not responsible for its infrastructure costs, but rather the whole country is, then it make perfect sense. But I think you people living in Florida are about to get a comeuppance. We don't want to support your special retirement lives anymore. We think that, like the rest of the country, you should be accountable for yourselves.
1
So, is it time to have a rational discussion regarding burying power lines?
84
It's time to have a rational discussion about where the power in those lines is coming from.
6
Let''s also have a discussion and engineering study of "pooing source" power generation, "neighborhood" generation along with a "hardened" distribution system.
The "local" generation can take the form of solar PV, hydrogen "Fuel cell" technology (ala Toyota Mirai). wind or biomass. Chosen as and where appropriate.
A "distributed" generation system is much more survivable for the most part than what we have now.
The biggest problem with the current concept of huge plants and a "Grid" is just what we see now. Storms and other disasters destroy or damage the distribution networks much more than the actual generating systems.
The "local" generation can take the form of solar PV, hydrogen "Fuel cell" technology (ala Toyota Mirai). wind or biomass. Chosen as and where appropriate.
A "distributed" generation system is much more survivable for the most part than what we have now.
The biggest problem with the current concept of huge plants and a "Grid" is just what we see now. Storms and other disasters destroy or damage the distribution networks much more than the actual generating systems.
8
Per FPL: "While underground facilities are not as susceptible to wind and debris-blown damage, they are more susceptible to water intrusion and local flood damage, which can make repairs more time consuming and costly. Overhead facility damage is easier to locate than underground and can generally be repaired quicker. Underground interruptions may be less frequent, but typically last longer due to more complex repair requirements. Following recent hurricanes, we’ve found that areas that took the longest to repair were generally those served by underground facilities still flooded days after the storm passed. Damage and corrosion of underground electrical systems often shows up days or even months later, causing additional outages and inconvenience to customers. Storm winds can damage both types of systems, causing outages. Overhead systems face outages resulting from trees and debris blowing into lines. Underground systems face outages from trees collapsing on above-ground transformers and switch boxes or from tree root systems uprooting buried cable when trees topple."
14
I guess I will have to wait on friends in Sarasota to find out exactly what I happened to them. Note there was a shortage of gas fro the very start of Irma in Florida,
7
I just received a text from a friend who has a retirement home in Sarasota and he got word that there is a lot of debris in the neighborhood but no significant damage. All I can tell you is that they are just a few minutes from the downtown area of Sarasota. I hope this gives you some optimism that you friends are in good shape.
5
As bad as the damage is, it could easily have been worse. Both Miami and Tampa Bay were spared from direct hits.
There will be more large storms in the years to come. Sooner or later, one will make a direct hit on one of Florida's seaside metropolises.
Time to talk about climate change, no matter if it hurts Scott Pruitt's feelings.
There will be more large storms in the years to come. Sooner or later, one will make a direct hit on one of Florida's seaside metropolises.
Time to talk about climate change, no matter if it hurts Scott Pruitt's feelings.
210
Oh, it doesn't really hurt Scott's feelings. It hurts the wallets of those for whom Pruitt is a shill and catspaw: fossil fuel interests.
The reality is that big Florida money loves a hurricane: it brings in a lot of federal dollars, it wipes out a bunch of suckers so that they are off the land, new ones will buy and build at even higher prices.
It also buries the mistakes and misdeeds of local governments. Nobody looks back or holds anyone accountable now that "the slate is wiped clean."
It's Governor Scott, not Scott Pruitt, who is really in the spot-light here. The big problem for Florida is that it is going away. No other state or governor faces what Florida faces.
Governor Scott needs to keep the "Florida system" going. He needs to keep the next generation of suckers eager to move to Florida, needs to keep real estate prices going up. It is fundamentally a Ponzi scheme, that the rising waters will end ... some time.
The reality is that big Florida money loves a hurricane: it brings in a lot of federal dollars, it wipes out a bunch of suckers so that they are off the land, new ones will buy and build at even higher prices.
It also buries the mistakes and misdeeds of local governments. Nobody looks back or holds anyone accountable now that "the slate is wiped clean."
It's Governor Scott, not Scott Pruitt, who is really in the spot-light here. The big problem for Florida is that it is going away. No other state or governor faces what Florida faces.
Governor Scott needs to keep the "Florida system" going. He needs to keep the next generation of suckers eager to move to Florida, needs to keep real estate prices going up. It is fundamentally a Ponzi scheme, that the rising waters will end ... some time.
10
yes. Let's talk about climate change. Lets restrict coastal development in inundation zones. lets enforce improved public drainage systems, let's harden building codes. Great Idea...and one we can all get behind.
2
Joel, there was no talk about global warming after the first hurricane recorded by Europeans (1494 in Hispaniola) or the hundreds of hurricanes that followed thereafter in the 500 years that followed. Hurricanes are very normal this time of year.
2
What are the conditions in the Keys?
3
Depends on which Key -- Cudjoe Key was hit very badly. Key West, only about 20 miles farther west, survived better than expected.
6
Thanks for your comprehensive report NYT. The news has been sparse on what damage occurred where in Florida, and your report was helpful in understanding how wide and bad the damage was. Also, excellent photo of that statue in the Jacksonville park...does not look like it was easy to take...
32
I'm not sorry for sounding like a broken record but~ the price these days for living in a flood zone, below sea level habitat that becomes increasingly vulnerable to the warming of a planet, is unsustainable. To put yourself in harms way and then ask the government to bail you out, is nuts. Once the building is totaled, the govt. should pay the owner for the land.
“We didn’t dodge a bullet, we dodged a cannon,” a Miami resident said on Monday. “And we’re very happy about that.”
As the risk in these areas increases, more damaging storms continue to act like a wreaking ball, lives lost and lives devastated through loss, things HAVE to change or else we all become victims of an irrational building policy that doesn't factor climate change into its calculus.
“We didn’t dodge a bullet, we dodged a cannon,” a Miami resident said on Monday. “And we’re very happy about that.”
As the risk in these areas increases, more damaging storms continue to act like a wreaking ball, lives lost and lives devastated through loss, things HAVE to change or else we all become victims of an irrational building policy that doesn't factor climate change into its calculus.
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Why should the government (by which you mean me and - I assume - you) pay for the land? If they chose to ignore the realities of climate change and bought property on the ocean and then that property disappears, I don't think we should bear any responsibility past the immediate emergency and disaster recovery efforts. If you don't want to lose your home to floods, you shouldn't buy land next to a body of water known to be rising over time. And who buys oceanfront property these days? Wealthy folks who apparently have an absurd sense of entitlement. If I sound insensitive, I'm sorry, but I can entertain and humor this selfish foolishness for only so long.
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Let me ask you this, to WHERE should all these people relocate? I can see not taking more wetlands and building more in fragile areas such as they are continuing to do in Houston (or, in New Orlean's case, re-settled people in exactly the area that is most prone to flooding because it was not politically popular?
I do agree with you that the government should not pick up the tab for repeated floods in particular areas. Just like not paying a single mother for more than one out-of-marriage child would make sense. If the government does not help I doubt there are few insurers that would be willing to take the risk. People would still live on the coast. Only now it would be those who could afford to lose everything and rebuild on their own nickel. I doubt the coasts would remain clear, pun intended.
I do agree with you that the government should not pick up the tab for repeated floods in particular areas. Just like not paying a single mother for more than one out-of-marriage child would make sense. If the government does not help I doubt there are few insurers that would be willing to take the risk. People would still live on the coast. Only now it would be those who could afford to lose everything and rebuild on their own nickel. I doubt the coasts would remain clear, pun intended.
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Unlike, say, living near an earthquake fault, in tornado alley or maybe along the Mississippi?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Mississippi_Flood_of_1927
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Mississippi_Flood_of_1927
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I have a feeling that tragic writeups like this one will become more common.
Federal relief money should come with commitments from receiving states that they will develop plans to mitigate damage in the future. Such plans should include aspects such as zoning and the restoration of natural protection against flooding.
The rest of the USA should not foot the bill for perpetual irresponsibility.
Federal relief money should come with commitments from receiving states that they will develop plans to mitigate damage in the future. Such plans should include aspects such as zoning and the restoration of natural protection against flooding.
The rest of the USA should not foot the bill for perpetual irresponsibility.
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Florida building codes, especially around Miami and in the Keys, are very strict. Many newer buildings on the Keys are built with the ground floor dedicated only to open parking areas and some storage ... and they are concrete with wind resistant roofs of tiles or metal. that's why some key areas aren't totally demolished. The folks between Summerland and Marathon had Cat 4 winds and a 10 foot storm surge, which is way more than what can reasonably be designed for. There isn't much natural protection for flooding there either.
Houston has more issues with poor planning, poor zoning, and poor construction (although wind is easier to plan for than floods).
Both Harvey and Irma really are tremendous storms that aren't easy to plan for ... and both qualify as events that we, the US people, should feel obligated and even happy to pay for. Triple that for the poor folks in the USVI and other islands.
And the people of Florida did save us a lot of rescue money and even money for water and MREs by evacuating, on their own dime. Great for them and the taxpayer.
Houston has more issues with poor planning, poor zoning, and poor construction (although wind is easier to plan for than floods).
Both Harvey and Irma really are tremendous storms that aren't easy to plan for ... and both qualify as events that we, the US people, should feel obligated and even happy to pay for. Triple that for the poor folks in the USVI and other islands.
And the people of Florida did save us a lot of rescue money and even money for water and MREs by evacuating, on their own dime. Great for them and the taxpayer.
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Badger -- you are expecting that politicians will slit their own throats. The reality almost everywhere is that state and local politicians cater to development interests, but Florida is the place where this is taken to the extreme.
There is no way that Florida politicians can be brought to interfering with the gravy train by mere "be a good boy and eat your spinach" arguments. One of the ugly facts almost everywhere in the US is that the life-cycle of residential development is a Ponzi scheme to the local governments. Real estate taxes are generally not sufficient to cover the costs that residences impose on local governments, longer term. Local governments become addicted to development, because the fees charged as developments go in, and the fact that new developments don't cost the local government as much for a decade or so, keep them hooked.
And again this generic reality is amped on steroids in most places in Florida.
The only way forward is major change at the federal level, so that hazardous development is not subsidized by the country as a whole. It is the externalized costs that make the risky-development game lucrative. Remember that Florida wins when a hurricane like Irma happens: a lot of federal money flows in. Some suckers lose everything they have -- they end up living in trailer parks somewhere, but another sucker will build again on the land.
There is no way that Florida politicians can be brought to interfering with the gravy train by mere "be a good boy and eat your spinach" arguments. One of the ugly facts almost everywhere in the US is that the life-cycle of residential development is a Ponzi scheme to the local governments. Real estate taxes are generally not sufficient to cover the costs that residences impose on local governments, longer term. Local governments become addicted to development, because the fees charged as developments go in, and the fact that new developments don't cost the local government as much for a decade or so, keep them hooked.
And again this generic reality is amped on steroids in most places in Florida.
The only way forward is major change at the federal level, so that hazardous development is not subsidized by the country as a whole. It is the externalized costs that make the risky-development game lucrative. Remember that Florida wins when a hurricane like Irma happens: a lot of federal money flows in. Some suckers lose everything they have -- they end up living in trailer parks somewhere, but another sucker will build again on the land.
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Real estate developers should also be held responsible for building substandard dwellings in known flood zone areas.
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