Thank you for immediate, expert, informative coverage. In Manhattan Dr. .Larry Myers of St. John's University & Director of the Playwrights Sanctuary is off toe Houston to help. His volunteerism has been chronicle in various plays. He was in the South after Katrina. His "Hurricane Irma & Twin Flames" will be performed as a reading in San Francisco to help the Florida victims and Island victims. Dr. Myers is an "advanced catholic" who penned a book
Advanced Catholics (Walking on Water) explaining how service can inspire new future dramatic arts -- poetic & prophetic.
Advanced Catholics (Walking on Water) explaining how service can inspire new future dramatic arts -- poetic & prophetic.
A tny shred of positiveness - palm trees. Sure, plenty of them blow down in 185 mph winds; but not all. And it seems to take a wind over 130 mph just to start stripping fronds off. But in the photos of devastation, there are often a few palms; looking very ragged - but with the growing tip intact. They are already putting out new fronds.
It is possible to survive. That's good to know.
It is possible to survive. That's good to know.
2
The U.S. is running headlong into the catastrophic consequences of climate change denial by continuing construction of residential and commercial infrastructure in the most at-risk areas along coastlines, creating a false sense of security from upgraded building codes and flood insurance. Like the certainty of catastrophic earthquakes along the west coast, there is now nothing we can do to prevent the consequences of human caused global warming we are seeing now except to get out of the way.
Violent weather like this has just begun.
Violent weather like this has just begun.
"Gaston Browne, prime minister of Antigua and Barbuda, said Irma had destroyed 95 percent of the structures on Barbuda, an island with about 1,600 people."
Clearly a "catastrophic" choice of words. Browne was quoted in other papers as stating that 95% of the structures were "damaged" not "destroyed". Which is the truer statement?
I am hoping the NYT did not change a word to instill additional fear for those still in the path of Irma.
Clearly a "catastrophic" choice of words. Browne was quoted in other papers as stating that 95% of the structures were "damaged" not "destroyed". Which is the truer statement?
I am hoping the NYT did not change a word to instill additional fear for those still in the path of Irma.
To downgrade it further, we're talking about 1,600 people overall. More people than that live in the apartment building I reside in.
The hurricane isn't even in the top 10, and those lists don't cover much before World War II to begin with. But that won't stop the New York Times and its liberal followers from trying to use this to advance their global warming cult.
Remember when you people would piously lecture everyone about the difference between weather and climate? Not anymore. You have no truth, fact, or principles. Only talking points, and then you wonder why so many people don't believe anything you say.
Remember when you people would piously lecture everyone about the difference between weather and climate? Not anymore. You have no truth, fact, or principles. Only talking points, and then you wonder why so many people don't believe anything you say.
1
This kind of ignorance is incredibly sad.
3
Leave it to the knuckle draggers to come out of the woodwork lecturing everyone about their own delusional beliefs when their own home hasn't been flooded or destroyed, and then begging for Federal assistance when it does....
2
Walking out of the 68 degree house and jumping into the 8 passenger 4x4 suv to drive 1/8 a mile to the store for a quart of milk sure is worth it isnt it?
8
The eastern seaboard could have ongoing bouts of snowstorms above normal this winter, with the drought cycle finally finished, and regardless of global warming. Water, water, everywhere, for sure.
Nations collaborate for wars and even space programs but there is no effective collaboration when it comes to natural disasters which affect all of us. That has to change.
2
Enough of the arm-chair pontiffs and climate plaintiffs. Very easy to be high and mighty for we who are on higher (and dryer) ground, but empathy and sympathy are lacking in these commenting cacophony's. I hope no one is killed or injured by this dangerous storm. For all of this talk of global-warming, you'd think people's hearts would actually warm up occasionally.
5
Democrats have been trying to help for years, we've been voting for adequate FEMA funding, sound energy policy etc., right wingers told us to go pound sand. Now those same right wingers want us to cry for them and shell out even more tax dollars to help them out.
3
“Puerto Rico braces but is spared worst of hurricane Irma,” so the fellow will request the minimum financial assistance from the taxpayers to rebuild his golf courts. He is nervous though about the possible floating fate of his Mar-O-Lago compound. But, knowing the subservience of the GOP to the abject subject, most likely them GOPers will make you and I to pay for its restoration.
More coverage of the US Virgin Islands please, it has been devastated and there has been barely a mention of it.
1
It's not widely reported, but the last time (800,000 years ago) the atmosphere contained more than 400 ppm of carbon dioxide--as it does today--the oceans were 100 feet higher; the average global temperature 13F warmer. This is where we're heading. Simply put, there's not enough money in the world to make adequate preparations--if there are any--for mitigating the effects of rising oceans, temperatures and cataclysmic weather, while also repairing destroyed infrastructure and making the lives of the millions of dispossessed whole. Welcome to the beginning of the Sixth Extinction.
2
Not sure Florida is handling the planning too well. Gov. Scott is telling people to evacuate--it is not clear what the term means, evacuate your homes and go to a secure refuge nearby? Or advising people to leave the state. I'm seeing long lines of traffic jams. There is not enough gas for people to flee the state, nor the route of the hurricane clear yet to know where to take refuge elsewhere in the state. People can get caught up in hose traffic jams for hours. And the highways may not clear up before the storm hits.Plus, how many cars without gas to fill up along the way will get stuck on the shoulders of highways or little towns. This does not sound like good planning. Good to be dealing with evacuations of hospitals and senior centers in advance, but not a mass evacuation in cars. Also, hopefully, Florida will start using concrete in their roofs rather than wood, as in P.R. for instance.
2
I think that a lot of the damage has already taken place, before the hurricane hits Florida. Three days--or more-- days before the hurricane is predicted there is a paralysis of the economy. Schools and universities closed since Wednesday, work centers closed, the economy pretty much shut down (except for the disaster economy--water, gas, food). I hear from friends everything has closed. That paralysis of the normal economy must mean thousands and millions of dollars lost per day. Can the NYT report on this side of the hurricane story? A more in depth reportage is needed, at least after the event. Enough of winds and water--there are other (human) aspects to an event like this.
1
Global warming is not a religion or a choice. It's a scientific fact, and we need to do something constructive about it. If the debate is over whether or not it is being caused by "man," we need to consider the fact that business is always trying to persuade us that there is no truth to it, since it is not in their best interests to admit to it. That should be enough to prove that there is truth to global warming, and it will not be admitted as a concept until business can figure out how to make a profit off of it. In this, though, there is a conflict, since if you build it up and tear it down and then build it up again, over and over, it's kind of a money making proposition as is. Without regulations, penalties (enforced), and a constructive plan, we will only witness more like the kind of destruction we have seen in Houston. We should not be building with total disregard of the possibilities that individual home owners might face.
1
Besides all of the talk about whether our weather is being impacted by man made gases, etc. What has become frighteningly obvious to me after watching both of these episodes unfold is this:
Even with days of warning our infrastructure just cannot adequately evacuate the millions of people in harm's way. Someday it's going to be gut wrenching to watch the carnage unfold in slow motion.
Even with days of warning our infrastructure just cannot adequately evacuate the millions of people in harm's way. Someday it's going to be gut wrenching to watch the carnage unfold in slow motion.
2
whoa, scary commenters. most rational people recognize that rush limbaugh et al are blowhards that take extreme conservative views for commercial reasons; i.e. they sell more advertising. it appears the commenters in this article are nascent rush limbaughs; crackpot city!
2
If, God forbid, Irma chews up and spits out Republican, Trump-voting Florida, will NY Times commenters cast the same vicious, cruel, anti-relief schadenfreude against Floridians that they have hurled against Texans ruined by Harvey? Or, given the number of New York retirees in Florida, will readers be shamed into sympathy once their own ox is gored?
3
Katrina, Sandy, Harvey, Irma, Jose....does POTUS still think that there is not global warming and that we do not need Paris Agreement?
9
The real question is, does the POTUS think?
8
Apparently Mother Nature is a transgendered DACA student. Bye-bye, Mar-a-Lago.
11
The result of climate change are upon us--anyone with half a brain knows this. The polar ice caps are melting, sea levels are rising, weather is unpredictable and storms and forest fires are ruining our communities. The people really suffering are the poor.
Pres. Trump's withdrawing the US from playing its role in the Paris Agreement is one of the most devastating events to impact our situation. It's criminal in my opinion and one has to ask what sort of democracy does the US have, that one uneducated man can impact the whole world as we stand by and watch.
Pres. Trump's withdrawing the US from playing its role in the Paris Agreement is one of the most devastating events to impact our situation. It's criminal in my opinion and one has to ask what sort of democracy does the US have, that one uneducated man can impact the whole world as we stand by and watch.
10
While so many comments are addressing issues of science and climate change and the wrath of Mother Nature , I have to make note of the financial pages of multiple news outlets and their ghoulish recommendations this week for hurricane investing. As families and businesses face agonizing devastation and loss, there will be companies and industries that will profit greatly from the aftermath. Seems like Lowes and Home Depot are a sure thing, and sheet rock and gypsum companies , a given. Lumber, roofing, you get the picture. And Bechtel and Halliburton etc... will enrich their coffers on infrastructure. They will contract contractors who will contract even more contractors and eventually try to hire immigrants who will work for for smallest amount of money to do the actual rebuilding after everyone else has gotten a cut. Even insurance companies will get a boost from people who are impelled by the misfortunes of the victims to protect themselves from a similar fate (I hope that those buyers will do their homework and pick a company that does-right by its claimants).
Maybe trump can have a 'look on the bright side' press conference announcing the very very great economic boost that will come of this tragedy.
Maybe trump can have a 'look on the bright side' press conference announcing the very very great economic boost that will come of this tragedy.
2
The Florida AG has already put businesses on notice concerning price gouging.
Profiting off others' tragedies is sadly nothing new. Wherever a buck is to be made...
Profiting off others' tragedies is sadly nothing new. Wherever a buck is to be made...
1
Holy Climate Change Batman, some people still don't understand that Climate Change is increasing the intensity of these storms. Both Climate Change Irma and Climate Change Harvey were more intense or carried more water due to Climate Change.
Batman: Now wonder boy, just leave those people alone, they will never figure it out.
Batman: Now wonder boy, just leave those people alone, they will never figure it out.
11
The New York Times continues to devote an entire section of its paper to automobiles. Why? Are you a paper with a public mission, or are you merely chasing revenue?
There is much content that could replace this product promotion section. Coverage of public transportation, bicycling and walking would be a logical choice.
There is much content that could replace this product promotion section. Coverage of public transportation, bicycling and walking would be a logical choice.
3
If they don;t successfully nab that revenue they're chasing, I would hate to imagine the cost of a subscription . . .
3
A lot of people love that section....if they continue to water it down, I'll cancel my subscription
I hate to damper your idealism childofsol, however, I worked at LAT in marketing for many years. I saw how funding from auto ads kept the whole enterprise afloat. I am a fan of electric vehicles but they're a very small segment. The subscription prices are a very small pieces. Without some kind of ad revenue newspapers go under as we see now. Your idea is unfortunately not viable.
3
I looks like opinion's become really polarized over this issue in the comments. And I'm thinking it's irresponsible of the NYT to make half of the NYT Picks those in favor of one side and the other half those in favor of the other.
Climate scientists may not know every last thing about the connection between climate change and hurricanes or particular hurricanes. But I think it’s not really informative to go beyond that, and say that climate change doesn’t have anything to do with them, or that climate change shouldn’t be talked about in the context of the hurricanes.
Climate scientists may not know every last thing about the connection between climate change and hurricanes or particular hurricanes. But I think it’s not really informative to go beyond that, and say that climate change doesn’t have anything to do with them, or that climate change shouldn’t be talked about in the context of the hurricanes.
3
Gee Governor Scott, you banned all your government officials from discussing Climate Change and removed it from all the Florida government websites. Now your state is the Bulls Eye for a monstrous Cat 4 Hurricane. 100 year storms are now flooding Miami on a yearly basis.
Governor Scott, you, just like Mr. Trump, ignore the effects of Climate Change at your citizens' peril to life and property.
Governor Scott, you, just like Mr. Trump, ignore the effects of Climate Change at your citizens' peril to life and property.
9
Is this correct?
"Sandy wasn't even a 1- that's why we call it super-storm Sandy' and not 'Hurricane Sandy.'"
If Harvey was only a Category 3 storm, and "Sandy wasn't even a 1," what about Katrina? Surely Katrina must have been a 5.
The Times says no Category 5 storm has hit the US in 25 years -- that can't be correct, can it?
"Sandy wasn't even a 1- that's why we call it super-storm Sandy' and not 'Hurricane Sandy.'"
If Harvey was only a Category 3 storm, and "Sandy wasn't even a 1," what about Katrina? Surely Katrina must have been a 5.
The Times says no Category 5 storm has hit the US in 25 years -- that can't be correct, can it?
Dear MyThreeCents,
That is all correct. Sandy downgraded from a category 1 right before it hit land. Harvey was only a 3, Katrina also a 3. However, there have been a few category 5 hurricanes that hit in the last 25 years, Wilma and Rita in 2005, for example. It's rare that the strong storms stay category 5 right up to landfall.
That is all correct. Sandy downgraded from a category 1 right before it hit land. Harvey was only a 3, Katrina also a 3. However, there have been a few category 5 hurricanes that hit in the last 25 years, Wilma and Rita in 2005, for example. It's rare that the strong storms stay category 5 right up to landfall.
Katrina was cat 3 when it came ashore in the US.
New Orleans was a disaster waiting to happen. Houston was a disaster waiting to happen.
And almost all of coastal Florida is a disaster waiting to happen ... and it looks as though southeast florida will not be waiting much longer.
New Orleans was a disaster waiting to happen. Houston was a disaster waiting to happen.
And almost all of coastal Florida is a disaster waiting to happen ... and it looks as though southeast florida will not be waiting much longer.
2
Katrina was "only" a Cat 3 when she first made landfall near Bura-Triumph, LA. The extreme damage to New Orleans was caused when the swells of water from the hurricane weakened and broke 50 levees and other foods walls. Those breaks flooded 80% of New Orleans.
Irma bearing down on us is going to be a real mother to end all mother hurricanes. If I lived anywhere near where she's projected to hit, I'd get me and my family out today.
Irma bearing down on us is going to be a real mother to end all mother hurricanes. If I lived anywhere near where she's projected to hit, I'd get me and my family out today.
4
" “We would like to start out thanking the Almighty,” Mr. Rosselló said. “Our prayers were answered.” "
Mr. Rosselló's statement is perhaps the dumbest one I've ever heard from a public official. I fail to see the logic in thanking a capricious and cruel deity for so much destruction. Perhaps Mr. Rosselló or one of the Times' readers can explain it to me?
Mr. Rosselló's statement is perhaps the dumbest one I've ever heard from a public official. I fail to see the logic in thanking a capricious and cruel deity for so much destruction. Perhaps Mr. Rosselló or one of the Times' readers can explain it to me?
2
This is life on a Caribbean island. With paradise comes the risk of devastation. If not biblical, at least it is synergistic.
1
Thank you Robles, Semple, and Perez-Pena for this wonderfully written and informative article about the current situation in the Caribbean. It is great to hear that the U.S. and other local nations are actively tracking Hurricane Irma and its route. It is hard to forget the recent Hurricane Harvey which ravished Houston and other parts of Texas little over a week ago. The United States has never been hit by two large hurricanes in the same season before, let alone one being Category 4 (Harvey) and the other being Category 5 (Irma). Despite this, I believe the scale of impact by Hurricane Irma is still underestimated by people in the U.S. Hurricane Irma, as described in this article, already has stronger winds than Katrina ever had (exceeding 185 mph), and it is also on track to cover more ground than Katrina. Hopefully, Hurricane Irma will dissipate over the mountainous terrain of Cuba and spare more lives, but it is still too soon to tell. I have a friend in Miami who barely booked a flight to leave on Thursday. Flights from Florida are costing $2,000+ one-way, and are being bought up near instantly online. Those who aren't able to get a flight are seeking alternate routes such as Amtrak train rides to Jacksonville and other destinations, or by driving north and inland to somewhere safer. While scary, we have to be strong as a nation in times like this, and be prepared to provide aid to all people who were affected, as well as identify possible causes for this destruction.
3
What is there to say? Those who make these islands -- and Florida -- their homes get to enjoy tropical weather, sunshine and pleasantness most of the year. Then there are these storms -- fully predictable and nearly inevitable. I guess one takes the bad with the good.
1
I pray the Trump Administration will reconsider its ongoing deportation of tens of thousands of Haitians whose TPS status expired in July. Where will they go with Hurricane Irma now headed to Haiti? The island nation has never recovered from other recent Hurricane disasters. One wonders if Haiti (one of the poorest nations on the globe) is even on this President's cognitive "radar."
You're understating the case here:
"We know that the temperature of the oceans is rising and we do know the effect on rain and wind of increasing water temperatures."
Since World War II, ocean temperature has risen over a full degree (Fahrenheit), so you're correct about that. (Reportedly, the Atlantic Ocean has started to cool recently, but I haven't seen any actual measurements that reflect a cooling trend.)
But your implication understates the point, nevertheless made by many others: Rising ocean temperatures may cause not only MORE rainfall, as in Houston recently, but also may cause LESS rainfall, as in drought areas. For example, here in California, the continuing drought in Southern California is due to global warming, and the much-heavier-than-usual rains in Northern California last winter also were due to global warming. The winter before last, rainfall here in Northern California was about normal (just a tad above), which also was due to global warming, while rainfall in Southern California remained far lower than usual -- also due to global warming. Two winters back, and three winters back, rainfall in Northern California was also much lower than usual -- global warming yet again.
"We know that the temperature of the oceans is rising and we do know the effect on rain and wind of increasing water temperatures."
Since World War II, ocean temperature has risen over a full degree (Fahrenheit), so you're correct about that. (Reportedly, the Atlantic Ocean has started to cool recently, but I haven't seen any actual measurements that reflect a cooling trend.)
But your implication understates the point, nevertheless made by many others: Rising ocean temperatures may cause not only MORE rainfall, as in Houston recently, but also may cause LESS rainfall, as in drought areas. For example, here in California, the continuing drought in Southern California is due to global warming, and the much-heavier-than-usual rains in Northern California last winter also were due to global warming. The winter before last, rainfall here in Northern California was about normal (just a tad above), which also was due to global warming, while rainfall in Southern California remained far lower than usual -- also due to global warming. Two winters back, and three winters back, rainfall in Northern California was also much lower than usual -- global warming yet again.
1
Let's assume, for arguments sake, that greenhouse gasses do not do what they do, and that climate change and global warming is an open question.
We already know that the contamination of the air due to the widespread burning of fossil fuels is responsible for many, many respiratory diseases and deaths. (At least I believe that is largely a settled issue, but who knows?)
We also know that transitioning on a widespread scale to "cleaner" energy will create jobs and opportunities on a massive scale. It would probably be on a scale with the New Deal or the Marshall plan. Doing so would also enable us to stay even with other countries who are embracing the change, like China and India.
Again, putting aside the scientific evidence/consensus that it is leading us to a climate calamity, what is the argument against transitioning from fossil fuels to a new energy era?
We already know that the contamination of the air due to the widespread burning of fossil fuels is responsible for many, many respiratory diseases and deaths. (At least I believe that is largely a settled issue, but who knows?)
We also know that transitioning on a widespread scale to "cleaner" energy will create jobs and opportunities on a massive scale. It would probably be on a scale with the New Deal or the Marshall plan. Doing so would also enable us to stay even with other countries who are embracing the change, like China and India.
Again, putting aside the scientific evidence/consensus that it is leading us to a climate calamity, what is the argument against transitioning from fossil fuels to a new energy era?
6
Why isn't Gov. Scott turning at least one of the southbound lanes on I-95 into a reversible lane heading north to help facilitate the evacuation? Seems pretty straightforward to me. Close the southbound lanes to all but emergency vehicles, gas trucks and other hurricane material suppliers.
8
Like we were told in the old commercials for margarine, "It's not nice to fool Mother Nature".
For those who don't know it, here's one ad from 1970. The environment was just becoming a part of the cultural conversation -- i.e. the first Earth Day was held.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijVijP-CDVI
For those who don't know it, here's one ad from 1970. The environment was just becoming a part of the cultural conversation -- i.e. the first Earth Day was held.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijVijP-CDVI
4
As Dr. Who said: "Water ALWAYS wins!"
6
I am so dismayed by some of these comments in light of impending disasters. When did we become so cynical? When did it become acceptable to be so disrespectful and disdainful of our fellow Americans? Come on, people now. Smile on your brother. Everybody get together. Try to love one another.
Right now.
Right now.
8
Dear American,
We got so cynical, disrespectful, and disdainful, when it became clear, starting maybe around 2000, that a large segment of the population was stridently racist, denied all scientific facts, sought to impose fascism, refused to listen to opposing views, and much more.
It's the ignorant rabble who started this disrespect, and I for one have no reason to respect them now, or sympathize much with the hardships brought on by their ignorance. And, I view these people as the enemies of America and myself, and I'm not going to smile on them or any of that.
We got so cynical, disrespectful, and disdainful, when it became clear, starting maybe around 2000, that a large segment of the population was stridently racist, denied all scientific facts, sought to impose fascism, refused to listen to opposing views, and much more.
It's the ignorant rabble who started this disrespect, and I for one have no reason to respect them now, or sympathize much with the hardships brought on by their ignorance. And, I view these people as the enemies of America and myself, and I'm not going to smile on them or any of that.
9
Oh, I'm perfectly happy to smile on my brother ... no problem there!
But when he comes and tells me that I must pay to rebuild his waterfront property that costs 10 times mine -- now we have an issue.
And then beyond that ... I was a working "climate scientist" for 30+ years, about 6 years ago I shifted into studying hurricanes ... because guess why? Because the climate-science issues, particularly in the area I was working on, really are substantially known now. What remains isn't all that important to policy, and the public doesn't want to pay for the research it would take.
Hurricanes on the other hand ...
But when this "brother" has the unmitigated gall to call me a liar, a member of a conspiracy, and insist that they know more than all the scientists put together AND demand that I pay for their repeated hurricane claims....
BASTA!
But when he comes and tells me that I must pay to rebuild his waterfront property that costs 10 times mine -- now we have an issue.
And then beyond that ... I was a working "climate scientist" for 30+ years, about 6 years ago I shifted into studying hurricanes ... because guess why? Because the climate-science issues, particularly in the area I was working on, really are substantially known now. What remains isn't all that important to policy, and the public doesn't want to pay for the research it would take.
Hurricanes on the other hand ...
But when this "brother" has the unmitigated gall to call me a liar, a member of a conspiracy, and insist that they know more than all the scientists put together AND demand that I pay for their repeated hurricane claims....
BASTA!
5
I'm no fan of the insurance industry, but am weary of paying taxes to rebuild the homes of folks who don't have flood, earthquake or other home insurance. And, after the disaster, they rebuild on the same location. This is not sustainable. And it is fixable with zoning and other regulations, at least in the US. My deepest sympathies to the Harvey and Irma victims. You are true heroes and heroines.
The discussion going forward from these twin disasters should include climate change, without a doubt, but let's be clear: the science flat out does not support the notion that this hurricane season is enhanced or caused by climate change. We've seen this before and we'll see it again.
What we should focus first and foremost on is how and why we build in these danger areas. Climate change or not, horrific hurricanes with immense destructive force will continue to strike the Caribbean, the gulf, and the entire Atlantic coast. It's incredibly sad to see this but let's not forget that it will happen again, and again. We need far greater focus and planning on how and where structures are constructed, floodplains are managed, and preparation/evacuation/recovery is executed. Let's stop discussing these storms in the context of climate change and steer it towards making things better for people when they happen again.
What we should focus first and foremost on is how and why we build in these danger areas. Climate change or not, horrific hurricanes with immense destructive force will continue to strike the Caribbean, the gulf, and the entire Atlantic coast. It's incredibly sad to see this but let's not forget that it will happen again, and again. We need far greater focus and planning on how and where structures are constructed, floodplains are managed, and preparation/evacuation/recovery is executed. Let's stop discussing these storms in the context of climate change and steer it towards making things better for people when they happen again.
13
There's a Norwegian folktale about a stubborn woman. She and her husband disagree about whether to clip or cut the barley in their field. The wife thinks it ought to be clipped and makes a scissor with her hand and sticks it in her husband's face and says "Clip, clip, clip!" as she makes herself more and more annoying. The husband, fed up with listening to his wife's sharp tongue, ends up drowning her in the creek that runs by the house. But even as he holds her head under water, the wife pokes her arm up out of the water and clips, clips, clips with her fingers in his face. Republican climate-deniers will persist in denying the obvious even as they disappear beneath the flood waters of new and more powerful storms.
5
Mr Wu should write to his Chinese law makers and ask why they aren't doing anything rather than complain about Republican climate-deniers.
For all of you complaining about climate change, I suggest you write to your Congressmen in China and India and demand they reduce their nations' emission standards sooner than 2030. These guys are the real culprits.
7
Not surprising:
"We've seen one or two sentences about Haiti and the Dominican Republic, but essentially nothing about Cuba."
Very rarely do we get actual news reports about Cuba. Arm-chair opinionating, to be sure, but not much actual news.
"We've seen one or two sentences about Haiti and the Dominican Republic, but essentially nothing about Cuba."
Very rarely do we get actual news reports about Cuba. Arm-chair opinionating, to be sure, but not much actual news.
4
Because the media is controlled by the Cuban government, who has to approved media requests from other countries. Bureaucracy, process, time.
6
Adapt or die -- Mother Nature doesn't care either way. See: Evolution; Global Heating; human overpopulations; failure of self governance.
6
I wonder what theory the alleged Christians like those who blamed damage to New Orleans from Hurricane Katrina on homosexuality will come up with to explain why Florida is being hit with Irma. Hurricanes seem to be targeting red states; the conclusion that these states are being punished for something seems inescapable. And they should remember that Mar-a-Lago is in Florida, and facing Hurricane Irma as well as the rest of the state.
I do not of course subscribe to such appalling beliefs, but for those who do, a conclusion tying the hurricanes to the redness of the states they are hitting seems ineluctable.
Denying climate change also has to be getting harder and harder to justify as more and more terrible and tragic events are at least in part resulting from climate change. I hope that climate change deniers have sufficient intelligence to change their indefensible views in response to the facts and to the actual events that are occurring as I write this. But I am not optimistic. The capacity of the human race to ignore, rationalize away, or just lie about facts that they don't like seems shockingly limitless.
I do not of course subscribe to such appalling beliefs, but for those who do, a conclusion tying the hurricanes to the redness of the states they are hitting seems ineluctable.
Denying climate change also has to be getting harder and harder to justify as more and more terrible and tragic events are at least in part resulting from climate change. I hope that climate change deniers have sufficient intelligence to change their indefensible views in response to the facts and to the actual events that are occurring as I write this. But I am not optimistic. The capacity of the human race to ignore, rationalize away, or just lie about facts that they don't like seems shockingly limitless.
9
Is the Times correct?
In another article on Irma, the Times wrote that Irma would be the first Category 5 storm to hit the US in 25 years (Hurricane Andrew being the last, in 1992.
Is that true?
I'd thought Katrina, and Sandy, and Harvey were all Category 5 storms. I guess not. Another commenter reported that Harvey was only Category 3, which surprised me.
In another article on Irma, the Times wrote that Irma would be the first Category 5 storm to hit the US in 25 years (Hurricane Andrew being the last, in 1992.
Is that true?
I'd thought Katrina, and Sandy, and Harvey were all Category 5 storms. I guess not. Another commenter reported that Harvey was only Category 3, which surprised me.
This is really scary-
Sandy wasn't even a 1- that's why we call it "super-storm Sandy" and not "Hurricane Sandy". Its storm surge effects were exponentially magnified by a high tide/full moon.
I shudder to think what would happen if we in the NYC region were to be hit with a full-on major hurricane, Cat-3 or above. We are long overdue- supposedly once every 50 years or so, with the last being "The Long Island Express" hurricane of 1938. Think of how building growth has expanded the population has exploded in the area over the past 80 years.....
Sandy wasn't even a 1- that's why we call it "super-storm Sandy" and not "Hurricane Sandy". Its storm surge effects were exponentially magnified by a high tide/full moon.
I shudder to think what would happen if we in the NYC region were to be hit with a full-on major hurricane, Cat-3 or above. We are long overdue- supposedly once every 50 years or so, with the last being "The Long Island Express" hurricane of 1938. Think of how building growth has expanded the population has exploded in the area over the past 80 years.....
5
It's actually quite rare for a force 5 hurricane to make landfall, because hurricanes usually downgrade prior to making landfall. Andrew was a force 5 hurricane when it made landfall the first time, but then downgraded to a 3 when it made landfall the second time. Katrina made landfall as a category 3 storm. Prior to Andrew, the last hurricane that made landfall at hurricane force 5 conditions was Camille, in 1969.
3
A hurricane's category is determined by wind speed rather than storm surge or water volume. Much of the damage from Katrina, Sandy, and Harvey was caused by water, which can be far more destructive and deadly than wind.
2
Global warming is real
3
A commenter correctly points out:
"Atlantic waters are warming."
Not just in the Atlantic. Since World War II, ocean temperatures world-wide have risen more than a full degree (Fahrenheit). I've read there is a downward trend in the Atlantic, but I don't know whether that's been reflected in any measurements.
We've been lucky out here in San Francisco. It's definitely warmer (6 degrees warmer, in the 40+ years I've been here, which I consider a significant increase). So far, though, we've avoided any serious consequences of the warming (other than much-higher rents – one son is paying $4,000/month for a 3 BR apartment in a not-all-that-nice area). No hurricanes or other storms here, and sea level rise appears to be negligible -- a bit over 1 inch so far this century (after whole-century predictions ranging from 36 inches to 96 inches); in some coastal areas north of here, and along most of the Alaska coast, sea level is actually falling! I've never noticed any coastal property owner making any change to deal with rising sea levels. Most prognosticators, though, expect a "hockey stick" -- where sea level rise accelerates later in the century -- so it's probably to early to tell.
"Atlantic waters are warming."
Not just in the Atlantic. Since World War II, ocean temperatures world-wide have risen more than a full degree (Fahrenheit). I've read there is a downward trend in the Atlantic, but I don't know whether that's been reflected in any measurements.
We've been lucky out here in San Francisco. It's definitely warmer (6 degrees warmer, in the 40+ years I've been here, which I consider a significant increase). So far, though, we've avoided any serious consequences of the warming (other than much-higher rents – one son is paying $4,000/month for a 3 BR apartment in a not-all-that-nice area). No hurricanes or other storms here, and sea level rise appears to be negligible -- a bit over 1 inch so far this century (after whole-century predictions ranging from 36 inches to 96 inches); in some coastal areas north of here, and along most of the Alaska coast, sea level is actually falling! I've never noticed any coastal property owner making any change to deal with rising sea levels. Most prognosticators, though, expect a "hockey stick" -- where sea level rise accelerates later in the century -- so it's probably to early to tell.
2
How is Cuba preparing for Irma's drive-by? We've seen one or two sentences about Haiti and the Dominican Republic, but essentially nothing about Cuba.
3
I wish them well, but at the same time I am glad of this storm and hope for a couple more just like it.
Why? A bigger issue than storms and those hit. This is what it takes to get the attention of the planet's politics.
Limiting global warming to just another few degrees just is not good enough, and even that is failing. We are not even talking about what is really needed, and we can't even do what we talk about.
So, wake up calls. Big loud ones. Very sorry for those who get hurt, but more will be hurt, a lot more, if we don't wake up.
Why? A bigger issue than storms and those hit. This is what it takes to get the attention of the planet's politics.
Limiting global warming to just another few degrees just is not good enough, and even that is failing. We are not even talking about what is really needed, and we can't even do what we talk about.
So, wake up calls. Big loud ones. Very sorry for those who get hurt, but more will be hurt, a lot more, if we don't wake up.
3
Since it would take Hollywood movie damage levels to get their attention, and even then only if those living in denial are directly affected, I suspect we're better off with fewer, rather than more, damage, thank you very much.
2
This is brutal stuff.
Our hearts go out to all those suffering and all those who will suffer.
Our hearts go out to all those suffering and all those who will suffer.
7
No one likes to see others suffer, but these storms are a predictable part of the landscape. It seems to me to be foolish to live in their path, knowing full well its a matter of time before they strike. I thought homo sapiens were blessed with the ability to plan?
3
I say these hurricanes are not happening.
I stand with Limbaugh.
I stand with Limbaugh.
3
Could it be climate change?
3
I always cringe a bit when I see people making the link to climate change in the face of the natural events we're seeing. There is a lot we don't yet know.
But those who stridently point to the fact we don't know miss the point.
I happened to be driving through Hartford, CT yesterday. The Insurance City. A local radio program was talking about the impact on the insurance industry of the current weather situation.
What we DON'T know is exactly what concerns that industry looking forward. It ought to concern us as well.
But those who stridently point to the fact we don't know miss the point.
I happened to be driving through Hartford, CT yesterday. The Insurance City. A local radio program was talking about the impact on the insurance industry of the current weather situation.
What we DON'T know is exactly what concerns that industry looking forward. It ought to concern us as well.
6
We do know that Houston experienced the heaviest rain fall in history and that the winds over the Atlantic are the strongest in history and that these storms are happening more frequently. We know that the temperature of the oceans is rising and we do know the effect on rain and wind of increasing water temperatures.
9
What YOU don't know stems from an unwillingness to do any research into the subject matter. Do not lump the rest of us in with those who willfully ignore what we DO know. If you literally do not know what is known, look at NASA's website. Look at NOAA (quickly, before it's defunded by those who do not know). Knowledge really isn't that hard to acquire; you just have to be open to it.
3
"One of the most contentious issues in climate research involves the impacts of climate change on tropical cyclone behavior"
Not my words, the IPCC on page 62 of Dire Predictions, the guide to the most recent findings. Not to suggest nothing is known, simply that it isn't settled yet.
Not my words, the IPCC on page 62 of Dire Predictions, the guide to the most recent findings. Not to suggest nothing is known, simply that it isn't settled yet.
1
If this hurricane 'hits' Mar-a-largo, we can safely bet Trump will dive in head first to make all kinds of claims (including 'lost business') - The Rich Will Get Rich and The Poor Will SUFFER badly!
14
Imagine how worse these recording-breaking storms would be if climate change were actually happening?
7
You will be accused of snark too.
1
CNN telling Miami skyrise dwellers to "get out" because the winds could knock their buildings down is the height of irresponsible reporting and fear mongering.
The skyrise dwellers aren't in danger, it's the poor of South Florida, who live in substandard, low rise housing who always face the most hazard.
The skyrise dwellers aren't in danger, it's the poor of South Florida, who live in substandard, low rise housing who always face the most hazard.
6
Religious Crutches
“We would like to start out thanking the Almighty,” [Gov. Ricardo] Rosselló said. “Our prayers were answered.”
I'm always curious when a government official -- or anyone for that matter -- believes the "Almighty" has the power keep people from being injured or killed in a storm ... but doesn't use his power to moderate or cancel the storm in the first place. I mean, what's the point?
That Almighty must be a really weird chap with a strange set of values. "Yeah, I'll wipe out everything they've got with this storm, but I'll give them an opportunity to thank me for not killing them in the process."
What a guy!
“We would like to start out thanking the Almighty,” [Gov. Ricardo] Rosselló said. “Our prayers were answered.”
I'm always curious when a government official -- or anyone for that matter -- believes the "Almighty" has the power keep people from being injured or killed in a storm ... but doesn't use his power to moderate or cancel the storm in the first place. I mean, what's the point?
That Almighty must be a really weird chap with a strange set of values. "Yeah, I'll wipe out everything they've got with this storm, but I'll give them an opportunity to thank me for not killing them in the process."
What a guy!
26
So far, so good. Sounds like minimal loss of life from this remarkably powerful hurricane. The real potential for disaster will come when it hits Florida, due to the highest population in the path being right there, but people have had plenty of warning.
If people chose not to evacuate or prepare, then that's OK too, we definitely have no shortage of humans, and these people had their chance. I just hope no lives are lost trying to rescue such people.
As for rebuilding, at some point we're going to have to accept that we should not rebuild. More hurricanes will come, within the next decade these same areas will get hit. Either people should build structures that can weather a cat 5 storm, with some repair, or they should build elsewhere.
If this all sounds callous, well I'm bracing myself. After Irma there are at least two more hurricanes inbound, and I am running out of sympathy for people who are surprised by these events, or who are using all their time to deny climate change, desperately, as if it will help matters.
If people chose not to evacuate or prepare, then that's OK too, we definitely have no shortage of humans, and these people had their chance. I just hope no lives are lost trying to rescue such people.
As for rebuilding, at some point we're going to have to accept that we should not rebuild. More hurricanes will come, within the next decade these same areas will get hit. Either people should build structures that can weather a cat 5 storm, with some repair, or they should build elsewhere.
If this all sounds callous, well I'm bracing myself. After Irma there are at least two more hurricanes inbound, and I am running out of sympathy for people who are surprised by these events, or who are using all their time to deny climate change, desperately, as if it will help matters.
7
Minimalish human loss so far.
Lots of destruction.
Lots of destruction.
1
Rush Limbaugh, a la Alex Jones, has insinuated that the storm has been exaggerated by the "fake media" in the service of corrupt businesses and the media promoting climate change theory. Limbaugh is headquartered in Palm Beach, Florida, and actually influencing people NOT to believe what they hear about the storm.
9
Anyone stupid enough to listen to Rush gets what they deserve.
12
I lived in Miami for over a decade and remember these storms well. I absolutely agree that climate change is strengthening these storms, and over-development putting people in places where they shouldn't.
However, I am glad I do not live there now, in this new media age, and social media age, where everything is an echo chamber.
It must be terrifying for the residents to hear horror stories 24/7 from every media outlet, every amateur reporter. I get that preparedness is key, but at what point is too much, just plain too much.
However, I am glad I do not live there now, in this new media age, and social media age, where everything is an echo chamber.
It must be terrifying for the residents to hear horror stories 24/7 from every media outlet, every amateur reporter. I get that preparedness is key, but at what point is too much, just plain too much.
5
There is a striking time-lapse video of Irma's eye taken from the International Space Station. The fact that multiple nations cooperated to develop, fund, and build a structure capable of sustaining human life in space, and can travel to and from said structure, is an awe-inspiring example of the great things people can accomplish collectively through science and technology. The fact that our government cannot cooperate with other nations to collectively study the environment and develop a responsible plan to be stewards of our own planet is shameful. We should be one of the leaders in this endeavor, yet we are lagging behind in many key areas of scientific research because of political agendas that block funding if the proposals even hint at a changing climate. At some point -- hopefully before too much more death and destruction -- the Republican puppets of industry will look at their children and grandchildren and decide that their futures are more important than certain factions' financial interests.
41
Thank you Erin for this great comment.
4
Your comment should be a NYT Pick. Excellent, thanks.
5
"The fact that our government cannot cooperate with other nations to collectively study the environment and develop a responsible plan to be stewards of our own planet is shameful."
Please do not confuse the stubborn human propensity for not learning from history -- in this case, moving away from islands that are smack dab in the path of major hurricanes, year after year -- with the politics of our government.
Please do not confuse the stubborn human propensity for not learning from history -- in this case, moving away from islands that are smack dab in the path of major hurricanes, year after year -- with the politics of our government.
Re: Most destructive
The Sea Islands Hurricane (named after Beaufort County, South Carolina of 1893 killed 2,000 to 2,500 people
Irma will not come even close.
The Sea Islands Hurricane (named after Beaufort County, South Carolina of 1893 killed 2,000 to 2,500 people
Irma will not come even close.
1
Dear Gerhard,
Apples and oranges there. In 1893 there was practically no warning of such storms. The 1900 Galveston hurricane killed even more, again due to no preparation. This will be far more destructive than both those storms in terms of property damage, because there wasn't as much property in those days. It will be less lethal than those, as will all modern storms, because we get plenty of warning now, and people get out of the way.
Apples and oranges there. In 1893 there was practically no warning of such storms. The 1900 Galveston hurricane killed even more, again due to no preparation. This will be far more destructive than both those storms in terms of property damage, because there wasn't as much property in those days. It will be less lethal than those, as will all modern storms, because we get plenty of warning now, and people get out of the way.
9
This storm gives the liberals, as demonstrated by some of the comments, the opportunity to politicize tragedy. Can't the environmental class put aside their politics in the wake of these tragic events? Thank you.
5
Dear Southern Boy,
It also gives plenty of conservatives the opportunity to politicize the upcoming tragedy, by trumpeting that climate change is a myth. But in the big picture, it doesn't matter what either camp says about this, this hurricane is going to hit, going to kill more people and destroy more property, and nothing anyone says will alter that in the slightest.
It also gives plenty of conservatives the opportunity to politicize the upcoming tragedy, by trumpeting that climate change is a myth. But in the big picture, it doesn't matter what either camp says about this, this hurricane is going to hit, going to kill more people and destroy more property, and nothing anyone says will alter that in the slightest.
6
Right, like the outpouring of sympathy and support that comes from right wingers when a blue state gets hit with a blizzard?
7
I suppose you'd have us wait for a calm day in the future, when the memory of tragedy has faded, to make our case without the benefit of glaring proof. It's the same with gun issues. We mustn't discuss it in the wake of a mass shooting; wouldn't be fair, emotions are too raw! We also can't enact financial regulations during a monetary crisis - too much danger that we might actually do something!
12
One of the excuses of the climate change deniers is that the economy will suffer if we address the issues and phase out carbon pollution, move to clean energy, etc. It's pretty obvious that our economy is already suffering from the massive bailouts and insurance coverage for all of these "superstorms" never mind the issues of fires in the west, record heat waves, etc. That's what is so frustrating to the majority of the people who believe the weather is changing and we must do as much as we can to prevent the worsening, etc. It's really common sense.
15
....and then you have Trump voters listening to Rush Limbaugh and Alex Jones who are suggesting Irma and Harvey's ferocity is fake news dreamed up for retail and advertising profit and suggesting that the storms are manmade by the "deep state" to help liberals further climate change debate.
12
I'd be happy to buy all such people bus tickets to Key West, where they can hang out on the beach and prove the storm is fake news.
10
I am reminded of a tsumani warning where I lived, years ago. I went to a high place, and watched. I saw people gathering on the beach, hoping to see the waves coming in, fascinated as the tide receded un-naturally, while the police were frantic trying to drag them off.
7
Maybe it high time that Florida and Texas implement a state income tax, and use most of it to fund these inevitable natural disasters. I see images of flooding streets in Miami on sunny days at high tide. Can anyone predict the damage if Irma hits at high tide, a trillion in damages? I have some degree of empathy for people of modest means who lose their stuff, but my tax dollars should not be supporting the 1% with their ocean front mansions. You red staters elected a bankruptcy expert, now reap what you sow.
21
Half of the boats in the United States are in Florida (according to BoatUS); should this storm hit directly, especially on the east coast and the Keys..the monetary damage not to include homes, etc will be in the tens of billions of dollars.
2
For many in the U.S., owning boats as found in Florida and the Keys, is a luxury we cannot comprehend.
5
For many in the U.S., living with sky-high-cost of living as found in NYC and the northeast in general is a luxury we cannot comprehend.
People should be thankful that non-existent global warming added nothing to the intensity of Harvey or Irma.
Thank god for the deniers.
Thank god for the deniers.
7
Thank god for snark-laden factually empty opportunistic comments too.
8
Oh, come in from the dark,
These times demand snark.
Post-snark is alright,
But it's not what I write,
Snark is part of my trademark.
These times demand snark.
Post-snark is alright,
But it's not what I write,
Snark is part of my trademark.
7
Nancy Parker makes a very good point. The mostly Republican climate change deniers have been shouting "No Fire" for years. The Democrats should have the courage to point this out more clearly. Some people might change their minds about the urgency of the situation and take action if they were receiving clearer information from leading Democrats. Senators Sanders and Whitehouse can do only so much, and many others do not emphasize climate change as much as they should.
6
This article interested me because of how close to home this hurricane is hitting.
Hurricane Irma is going to be the definition of a catastrophe. It is devastating to watch and hear all the tragic stories from Hurricane Harvey and now we are bracing for a Category five hurricane. Where I live, I have only experience very minor hurricanes and I can't imagine going through these higher category hurricanes losing absolutely everything from cars, houses, pets, etc. We can only hope that everyone does their best to stay safe during this storm. Us humans have very little control over these horrific storms which is the scary part. People need to realize the power in which a hurricane has and how they can destroy us.
Hurricane Irma is going to be the definition of a catastrophe. It is devastating to watch and hear all the tragic stories from Hurricane Harvey and now we are bracing for a Category five hurricane. Where I live, I have only experience very minor hurricanes and I can't imagine going through these higher category hurricanes losing absolutely everything from cars, houses, pets, etc. We can only hope that everyone does their best to stay safe during this storm. Us humans have very little control over these horrific storms which is the scary part. People need to realize the power in which a hurricane has and how they can destroy us.
2
Never underestimate the power of momentum. If true, (a bone to the deniers) the climate change we are now experiencing has been growing and developing for over a century. There is little we can do to add to or detract from its inevitable progression. The carbon emissions of ever increasing numbers of vehicles over a hundred years (1.2 billion and counting), 150 years of belching smokestacks, the never ending determination to turn the Earth to our own enrichment has little by little set into motion forces that will grind slowly but exceedingly fine. You can, perhaps, excuse the businessman too self absorbed with short term profits or the politician only clever enough to get him/herself elected; but sooner or later, reality will impose itself on even them. As for now, we have paid our admission, the coaster is at the top of the first drop and all we can do is hold on. It promises to be quite a ride.
10
Yes, the car is hurtling toward the cliff. Why bother applying the brakes or turn the wheel? That's too hard! Might as well accept our fate.
5
Irma's heading for Mar-a-Lago
9
Not that it's really pertinent to the article's content, but it really irks me that The New York TImes and other publications still use "Fla." to abbreviate Florida. The accepted usage has been FL since 1963. Why is this the only state to get a three letter abbreviation? Reminds me of my Brooklyn born great aunt who retired to Boca Raton, and proudly proclaims she lives in "Flaaaaaahrida."
1
FL is the postal abbreviation, not the official abbreviation use in writing. Publications have their own style manuals for usage, and most use either the full name of the state or the tradition abbreviation. The two-letter capitalized state abbreviations are used in addresses and with the zip code.
Fore more, see http://apvschicago.com/2011/05/state-abbreviations-use-traditional-or.html
Fore more, see http://apvschicago.com/2011/05/state-abbreviations-use-traditional-or.html
1
Let me guess. Yes, this is all due to anthropogenic global warming. Right? Am I right? Every misfortune is now due to AGW.
1
This might be due to global warming, but definitely not all misfortunes are. The rise in autism isn't, it's probably due to older parents and increased pharmaceutical use damaging genomes. The election of Trump wasn't global warming either, it was the American people becoming less educated and intelligent. All sorts of disasters have no relation to global warming.
And if people want to deny global warming that's fine too, makes no difference to the hurricanes at all. I encourage them to go surfing when the storm gets to shore.
And if people want to deny global warming that's fine too, makes no difference to the hurricanes at all. I encourage them to go surfing when the storm gets to shore.
7
No, not every misfortune is due to anthropogenic global warming. Like, earthquakes aren't. But higher sea levels, stronger hurricanes, and unprecented rainfall/flooding are due to AGW, as so are, or were, once upon a time, preventable.
5
No, you're not right. Absolutely no one has said that "every misfortune" results from AGW. What many DO say, with considerable evidence, is that severe storms will be more frequent, and that hurricanes, when they occur, will be somewhat stronger than they would otherwise have been. Also, the near-certain increase in sea level means storm surges are beginning to reach further inland.
4
There's never a policeman around when you need one
Same with a strong wind from CANADA.
But both right there when you don't.
Same with a strong wind from CANADA.
But both right there when you don't.
2
My daughter just recently returned from a trip to the Keys. She said that some places in Homestead that had been devastated by Andrew were finally being rebuilt. Seems our memory is not quite long enough to keep us from rebuilding in storm areas.
4
People who rebuild in hurricane areas should be never be given government assistance twice.
9
Ditto those affected by earthquakes.
3
American -- there is no National Earthquake Insurance Program.
It's going to be pretty funny watching Trump and Republicans dance around NFIP ... but you know what they'll do -- real-estate interests are the biggest swamp, and they rule.
It's going to be pretty funny watching Trump and Republicans dance around NFIP ... but you know what they'll do -- real-estate interests are the biggest swamp, and they rule.
Society can't figure out what to do with Syrian refugees, much less climate refugees.
2
I think that the hurricans are getting worse and worse every year, i also think that it is time for people to wake up and know that we are in fact living in some of the last times that the bible speak of. Instead of running around acting clueless, everyone should be some where praying. I also think it is a shame that it takes something so devastating as a storm for people to come togeher and help each other. I also think it is a shame how gas stations and stores use times like this to jack up their prices. People, wake up, and know that God will get his message across one way or another. All I can do is pray that he spare the lives of so many and to send this storm back to which it came in the name of Jesus. Wake up People!
1
Prayer? Seriously? If there is a God, she helps those who help themselves.
3
The Bible is an interesting collection of fables, it has no bearing on what will happen. Praying won't affect the course of the storm at all, but hurricanes aren't a sign that the end of the world is nigh. People have predicted the apocalypse for thousands of years, and every single prediction has been wrong.
8
This storm and Harvey have and will cost lives, lots of money and untold hardship. I believe in global warming as it makes sense to me. Even if you do not isn't it better to be safe rather than sorry. Isn't it better to have clean air and water?
13
People who go to a politician for advice about weather and climate, do they also go to a witch doctor when they feel ill, to a carpenter to fix their car, to a mechanic to pour their patio, to an ice cream stand for financial advice ?
Climate scientists have been predicting for two decades that we would begin having record-breaking storms in the near future, and now here are two record breakers in a short row.
Climate scientists are the only people who understand weather and climate in any factual way. That is also why they are notably cautious in making predictions, and also why they should not be ignored.
Climate scientists have been predicting for two decades that we would begin having record-breaking storms in the near future, and now here are two record breakers in a short row.
Climate scientists are the only people who understand weather and climate in any factual way. That is also why they are notably cautious in making predictions, and also why they should not be ignored.
17
What never ceases to amaze me from these pictures is the durability of palm trees. As much as I can't stand that their fronds keep trying to kill me when their razor sharp stalks come crashing down, they are literally indestructible. Something must really like them and wants to keep them around.
3
please, before one more person writes "we know we can't prove that climate change is tied to any one weather event"? read. please read.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/yes-some-extreme-weather-can-...
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/yes-some-extreme-weather-can-...
6
The deniers don't read Scientific American, nor do the Trumpettes. Facts just roll off these people as they cling to their brand of stupidity and know nothingism and continue whistling past the graveyard.
11
The commentators here rushing to point out that no single hurricane can be blamed on climate change (or even any two or five) , or bray why can't we focus on the afflicted humanity and not on politics completely miss the point. We have to deal, one way or another, with what is going on, on a very personal and practical level whether anyone thinks climate change is a pseudo religon or political belief system or not. If you are a banker making mortgages in Texas you have to decide if three 500 year events in a few years means the 100 year FIRM maps are useless garbage or not. You are holding notes on thousands of severely damaged properties you didn't require to have flood insurance. Rising sea level does not care what any of us thinks is causing it, the question is what are you going to do with ports and naval bases critical to national security going underwater like Norfolk? And let us not even consider, although we will with much kicking and screaming when its too late, what changing rates of rainfall, higher here, lower there, does to agriculture. We need reliable, scientific answers about what is going on. Back when America was Great, the scientists who took us to the moon were heroes who created wonders Now, they are looked on as untrustworthy heretics by a certain segment of the population. Yes, lets get the politics out of science, its science not religon, forecasting how badly I will be clobbered Sunday night.
45
I just read in WaPo that Rush Limbaugh and Alex Jones are telling listeners that Irma is "fake news" and that the government and media always lie about the severity and place of landfall of storms to 1) extend their talk about man made climate change and 2) conspire with business to sell, at the highest rate possible, provisions and fuel and construction materials to panicked consumers over a wider swath than necessary, panicking them to an extent not necessary by the level of the storm predicted to buy more "stuff".
This outrageous behavior in the face of an impending disaster that threatens lives should not be tolerated, it should be a violation of their licenses to broadcast. Any costs of people who stay because of the credibility they have established with their fans should be reimbursed to the first responders, and any they should be subject to criminal charges for the deaths of people who stayed at their behest. Murder, or second degree murder or reckless endangerment - instead of crying "Fire" in a crowed theater, they failed to call that there was a fire in a crowded they they know was really burning.
Their social irresponsibility must end at fake news and alternative truths endangers people.
This outrageous behavior in the face of an impending disaster that threatens lives should not be tolerated, it should be a violation of their licenses to broadcast. Any costs of people who stay because of the credibility they have established with their fans should be reimbursed to the first responders, and any they should be subject to criminal charges for the deaths of people who stayed at their behest. Murder, or second degree murder or reckless endangerment - instead of crying "Fire" in a crowed theater, they failed to call that there was a fire in a crowded they they know was really burning.
Their social irresponsibility must end at fake news and alternative truths endangers people.
66
If people are stupid enough to go to Rush Limbaugh and Alex Jones for weather updates they are probably too stupid to manage any other aspect of their lives. It's called Darwinism.
10
The main purpose of Limbaugh's outrage and outrageousness is to sell "stuff." His whole shtick is geared toward high ratings and the advertising that those ratings generate. It's too bad that the dupes and "dittos" who pump up these ratings can't see it for what it is.
4
In addition to the vast human suffering wreaked by Harvey - and now Irma, disasters give politicians photo-ops of them assisting in the recovery. (See Mike Pence carrying branches; see Donald Trump handing a bucket to the driver of a pickup truck.)
One can only hope that these photos of compassionate action do not lead observers to forget that Trump and Pence...and so many of their party...are dooming future generations to even worse environmental disasters through their active dismantling of efforts to deal with human-influenced climate change.
When the USDA and EPA prohibit the use of even the words "climate change," preferring "extreme weather event," and remove any scientific research from their web pages (shades of '1984), they show thrir abject fear of defining the problem that we so desperately need to address.
One can only hope that these photos of compassionate action do not lead observers to forget that Trump and Pence...and so many of their party...are dooming future generations to even worse environmental disasters through their active dismantling of efforts to deal with human-influenced climate change.
When the USDA and EPA prohibit the use of even the words "climate change," preferring "extreme weather event," and remove any scientific research from their web pages (shades of '1984), they show thrir abject fear of defining the problem that we so desperately need to address.
125
Still, the Paris Accords were too weak and too late to stop the oncoming trainwreck. Kyoto was early enough and strong enough to have an effect, but Bush killed it.
1
While Governor Scott of Florida is doing everything he can to assure the safety of citizens and tourists, Miami-based Carnival Cruise Line still has not canceled cruises scheduled to leave Miami this Saturday. While the cruise line is telling customers to stay tuned for an update supposedly coming later today, the delay is a breathtaking display of bad customer relations and disregard for public safety. By suggesting that it still has to "evaluate" the situation and that the cruise might still somehow get out of port on Saturday or be delayed by a couple of days, Carnival is essentially encouraging its customers to come to a state of emergency and potential disaster zone. Governor Scott and Miami's mayor may want to have a talk with Carnival and any other corporate citizens who are making their job of evacuations and public safety harder.
23
Everybody knows these hurricanes have nothing to do with so called "climate change". They are obviously caused by the Devil. Unless they land in "blue" states, in which case they are the wrath of God.
20
So much for how enlightened and intellectual we thought we all we'd all become thanks to our own scribblings and babblings. You can fool some of the people some of the time but you can't fool all of the people all of the time.
1
Well, Gov Rick Scott is on TV exhorting hotels on the evacuation routes to waive pet policies so refugees can bring their domestic animals with them. One of the few decent things that man has ever done, and better late than never.
I donated to animal relief charities for Harvey and will do so again for Irma. The suffering wildlife and domesticated livestock aren't responsible for their fate.
I donated to animal relief charities for Harvey and will do so again for Irma. The suffering wildlife and domesticated livestock aren't responsible for their fate.
26
Hurricanes, earthquakes, fires, etc. should remind us that, as humans we have little control over big natural catastrophes. Climate change or not, they are going to happen. One of our biggest failing is an inability to plan for and invest in ways to be better prepared and protect ourselves. We don't tend to worry about disasters until they are, literally, on our doorstep.
Given the current state of the American consciousness, don't expect a lot of foresight or planning or thoughtful planning. It seems that we have money to build military toys, but we can't seem to find resources for prevention and infrastructural rejuvenation.
Oh well. I just hope people don't get hurt.
Given the current state of the American consciousness, don't expect a lot of foresight or planning or thoughtful planning. It seems that we have money to build military toys, but we can't seem to find resources for prevention and infrastructural rejuvenation.
Oh well. I just hope people don't get hurt.
64
It possible that humans will destroy themselves with the military toys you reference in the relative short term, which, among other things, will make the entire discussion of planning for natural disasters moot. Silver lining there.
7
From another NYT article on Irma -- surprising if true:
"[Hurricane] Andrew, which blew in 25 years ago, was the last Category 5 storm to hit the United States."
I thought Katrina and Harvey were Category 5 storms. I guess not.
"[Hurricane] Andrew, which blew in 25 years ago, was the last Category 5 storm to hit the United States."
I thought Katrina and Harvey were Category 5 storms. I guess not.
3
Katrina was not cat 5 when it made landfall. Not sure about Harvey.
3
To Three cents: Harvey was a category 3 hurricane. The fact that it stalled and dumped tons of water on Houston is what caused the disaster.
6
J.,
Harvey was only Category 3? What about Katrina? Sandy?
Harvey was only Category 3? What about Katrina? Sandy?
and meanwhile Trumpy nominates a climate change denier to head NASA
The last bastion of science for education on the climate
We are the architects of our doom because just when we needed the most intelligent leadership of generations, we have the biggest bunch of idiots ever assembled.
The last bastion of science for education on the climate
We are the architects of our doom because just when we needed the most intelligent leadership of generations, we have the biggest bunch of idiots ever assembled.
80
Please stop using inflammatory language to describe hurricanes. Camille had 200 mph winds almost 50 years ago and less hype than Irma and the world still turns, as do hurricanes still spin.
Why hasn't the USA and other nuclear powers moved toward global diarmament and social and ethnic equity rather than whip up weather frenzy to enrich and empower a few globe trotting climate hypocrites at the expense of the wealthy energy producers?
The failed "new world order" of 25 years ago has only benefitted the wealthy and secretive well connected. The climate is not some new religion that helps the working person pay their bills or live their dreams. Branson and Trump's islands had some storm property damage, oh the humanity!
Why hasn't the USA and other nuclear powers moved toward global diarmament and social and ethnic equity rather than whip up weather frenzy to enrich and empower a few globe trotting climate hypocrites at the expense of the wealthy energy producers?
The failed "new world order" of 25 years ago has only benefitted the wealthy and secretive well connected. The climate is not some new religion that helps the working person pay their bills or live their dreams. Branson and Trump's islands had some storm property damage, oh the humanity!
9
Not a "a few," every climate scientist on earth (except "a few" paid by the fossil fuel industry) have been predicting climate change and the horrible effects. But let's not do anything because it's no big deal, right?
1
Camille had plenty of hype at the time. I remember it.
2
A question - the map shows the storm running right up the eastern coast of Florida - is that better or worst than the storm going up the center of the state?
Am I correct, that while one half of the storm is offshore, it's big enough to cover the whole state anyway, and the maximum low pressure at the shore line will cause the worst imaginable storm surge?
The author did not seem to discuss this issue.
Am I correct, that while one half of the storm is offshore, it's big enough to cover the whole state anyway, and the maximum low pressure at the shore line will cause the worst imaginable storm surge?
The author did not seem to discuss this issue.
5
Peter Zenger, it's a complicated question but you can find answers at the Weather Underground blog. Basically there are two threats: one from the 185 - 200 + winds near the eyewall so the center of the storm will cause wind damage, and one from the storm surge which will affect a larger area on the coasts. From the blog: "Irma’s large wind field is putting in motion a vast amount of water, which is spiraling into the center of Irma and creating a large mound. ... Once the hurricane drives that mound of water into a shallow area near land, the water cannot flow downwards, and instead piles up and is forced on land, creating a storm surge."
https://www.wunderground.com/cat6/hurricane-irma-extreme-storm-surge-thr...
https://www.wunderground.com/cat6/hurricane-irma-extreme-storm-surge-thr...
7
This is so crazy that is hitting Swainsboro and we are feeling the fry of this hurricane and I am 12 and might die from the hurricane!!!
Hayden, if the hurricane or the storm waters come your way I'm sure your parents will find a safe place to protect you from harm.
5
So, this has gone from `the most power storm every recorded` to `one of the most powerful storms every recorded`. The fact is this storm is powerful but small compared to many hurricanes of the past, which had stronger winds much farther from the eye and thus capable of far more damage. But that doesn't fit the global warming/climate change narrative.
3
cjhsa, Hurricane Irma is the most powerful Atlantic storm ever recorded; now, it is creeping up the scale of the most powerful hurricane/typhoons of all time, anywhere. That is why you have seen the change in terminology. It is the fact that a hurricane packing 185 mph sustained winds, and wind gusts over 200 mph developed in the Atlantic that is unprecedented. Atlantic waters are warming.
17
Yeah just keep ignoring the scientists because scientists don't know anything. These storms are, in fact, occurring more frequently. The rain fall in Houston was the heaviest in history and the winds over the Atlantic the strongest in history. The rising temperatures on the ocean cause more intense storms. But hey, scientists don't know anything. Rush Limbaugh knows it all.
2
Considering Senator Inhofe suggested a snowball was "proof" that climate change is some kind of hoax, it's time for a Congressional representative to rebut that stupidity since the frequency of two "hurricanes of the century" happened weeks apart.
While individual meteorological events should not be used to define climate, an increased frequency and intensity of extreme meteorological is evidence of anthropogenic climate change and to deny that is sticking your head in the sand or the "fake news" echo chamber of conservative media outlets.
While individual meteorological events should not be used to define climate, an increased frequency and intensity of extreme meteorological is evidence of anthropogenic climate change and to deny that is sticking your head in the sand or the "fake news" echo chamber of conservative media outlets.
47
Given the current state of climate change, most of Florida could easily be uninhabitable within the next century. The parts that aren't flooded will be scoured by super storms. SO, where will those 21 million people go? ...long with all those people living everywhere else along the gulf coast and the coastal plains all the way up the Eastern seabord. Earth does not have a plan B folks...this is it.
23
You've been watching too many disaster films....
2
The beginning of the hurricane season and so far Harvey and Irma will have already been two of the most destructive storms ever. Will the Republican climate change deniers including our so-called president finally acknowledge that human release of greenhouse gases from fossil fuel use may have something to do with weather related catastrophes? Wake up America. We could support all the coal miners in the country on retirement pensions and have plenty left over with all the money that will be spent cleaning up after these storms.
21
Hurricane season is actually June 1 through November 30, so we are half way through now.
4
Peggy -- Hurricane season may be lasting longer. There were always early and late season hurricanes, so we can't be sure yet, but we had some very late ones in the last few years, after the official season. They are still hurricanes even if they don't devastate population centers.
Hurricane diversion technology has been available since the '50s. Why hasn't FEMA seeded some clouds to send Irma harmlessly away into the Atlantic?
1
Because what you suggest is fiction, that's why.
36
Um, JC? You know all those movies and Twilight Zone shows from the 50s that you like? They're not documentaries.
10
This reminds me of the Army Air Corps bombing lava flows in Hawaii before WW2. That did not work either.
3
While the country argues about climate change the government is reducing funding for NOAA. We can't do anything about the climate in the short term but we do need to improve our forecasting capabilities. The European models are now superior as they have done a better job of investment in the scientific infrastructure required to predict storms. It's a shame and an embarrassment.
187
Last year, the times reported that our taxes bought new super computers for NOAA and they are now running the same new models that Europe is. So our hurricane forecasting this season has been much more accurate to the models.
As our climate changes, weather forecasting becomes less reliable because it relies on history to interpret the data statistically. No amount of computing power can alleviate this discrepancy in times of fast climate change until we get quantum computers.
As our climate changes, weather forecasting becomes less reliable because it relies on history to interpret the data statistically. No amount of computing power can alleviate this discrepancy in times of fast climate change until we get quantum computers.
1
Will Harvey and Irma finally wake up Trump and all the other Republican climate deniers? True, climate scientists will never be able to prove that these specific very destructive storms are the result of the increased greenhouse gases in the atmosphere due to fossil fuel use. But when in doubt why not opt for doing what might be best? The fossil fuel industry can restructure their businesses to be profitable using ecologically friendly energy sources like wind and sun, and government can support these industries by giving tax rebates for greenhouse gas extraction from the atmosphere. The earth is the only planet we have.
91
They will Never wake up. Rush even says the hurricane is a liberal conspiracy ;) Maybe when his mansion washes away he'll wake up. Nahhh.
1
I wish the Times commentariat would get it through their heads that there is no evidence that these storms are caused or enhanced by climate change. Single weather events are not evidence. We've had hurricanes of this magnitude since before it was possible to have man made CC. Based on known history since 1851 we should have expected 7.2 major hurricanes to hit the US since 2006 but Irma will make only the 2nd. Harvey was the 1st.
Moreover, even if you BELIEVE CC has something to do with these storms, you can't blame Harvey or Irma on Trump. He's only been in office 6 months whereas CO2 emissions have been increasing since 1900 -- under both Republican and Democratic administrations. More CO2 was pumped into the atmosphere during Obama's admin than any other president. And the wonderful nonbinding Paris Accord that the Obama admin negotiated does nothing to slow the growth of emissions of India, China and other emerging economies -- and that's where the emissions are growing. Total and per capita emissions have declined in the US since 2007. That's the crux of the issue. At 5% of the world's population and with declining emissions, what the US does domestically will have little impact CO2 emissions globally. Do the math.
Or you can use every weather event to bash Trump.
Moreover, even if you BELIEVE CC has something to do with these storms, you can't blame Harvey or Irma on Trump. He's only been in office 6 months whereas CO2 emissions have been increasing since 1900 -- under both Republican and Democratic administrations. More CO2 was pumped into the atmosphere during Obama's admin than any other president. And the wonderful nonbinding Paris Accord that the Obama admin negotiated does nothing to slow the growth of emissions of India, China and other emerging economies -- and that's where the emissions are growing. Total and per capita emissions have declined in the US since 2007. That's the crux of the issue. At 5% of the world's population and with declining emissions, what the US does domestically will have little impact CO2 emissions globally. Do the math.
Or you can use every weather event to bash Trump.
35
I have to ask if someone pays you to say things like this? You can't be serious.
10
This problem is not a United States problem; it's not a China problem; it's not a 3rd world problem. It's a global, human problem in which nations must act individually to change the way we get our energy. Every man, woman and child who has lived since the industrial revolution is part of this problem, and some people far more a part of it than others. This nest floating in space may be permanenty fouled.
What we *know* is that burning fossil fuels and the resultant release of CO2 worldwide have caused this problem. You can deny it all you want but the science and the evidence is conclusive.
Homo sapiens may not be as sapient as we always thought we were. For the first time in human history we must act as citizens of the planet and not just a single nation. Can we do it?
Place your bet—or don't—and stay tuned.
What we *know* is that burning fossil fuels and the resultant release of CO2 worldwide have caused this problem. You can deny it all you want but the science and the evidence is conclusive.
Homo sapiens may not be as sapient as we always thought we were. For the first time in human history we must act as citizens of the planet and not just a single nation. Can we do it?
Place your bet—or don't—and stay tuned.
29
Climate change was predicted more that 150 years ago, by a Swedish scientist, Svante Arrhenius, who visited London and was appalled by the amount of smoke coming from all the coal fires. The evidence we've compiled isn't from two to three years ago, or even two or three decades. It's been following the exact "hockey stick" curve Arrhenius developed more than a century ago.
This isn't a new phenomenon, nor are the predictions. Climate change denial is.
This isn't a new phenomenon, nor are the predictions. Climate change denial is.
29
We can't ascribe the intensity or frequency of hurricanes to global warming because there aren't enough cases. It's a statistical thing. But we do know for sure that warmer sea surface temperatures at the equator will produce stronger storms. Florida, including Mar a Lago, is in big trouble.
125
Regardless of the actual reason for what seems like climate change over the past century or so, is it reasonable for the human race, through the leaders of certain of its most influential nations, to totally discount the potential for negative human influence upon the climate of the Earth in its entirely? Seems like a pretty risky bet to me, one that should be hedged to the max ASAP, if not earlier.
6
Maybe once it impacts him personally and financially (in theory), dt will exhibit a natural tone of compassion.
1
Maybe this storm will damage Mar a Lago.
That might move the political needle.
That might move the political needle.
I think the reader who outlined Hurricane reimbursement form Insurance and government is correct.
Private homes are not covered by Fema . There are loans and some help. We lived it in Hurricane Sandy which may be the costliest. Public Institutions and Infrastructure in America is reimbursed by governmental sources .Thankfully we are a great, rich nation if the current administration does not mess up the economy. Finally the wonderful Caribbean Islands have been destroyed and for all the years we have used them as vacation spots. Our government should help . It would not be much compared to our needs in Texas and other places.
Private homes are not covered by Fema . There are loans and some help. We lived it in Hurricane Sandy which may be the costliest. Public Institutions and Infrastructure in America is reimbursed by governmental sources .Thankfully we are a great, rich nation if the current administration does not mess up the economy. Finally the wonderful Caribbean Islands have been destroyed and for all the years we have used them as vacation spots. Our government should help . It would not be much compared to our needs in Texas and other places.
7
Trump, Harvey, Irma, etc. = This is our Annus horribilis. The stress from this year will take its toll in many ways that we aren't even measuring, yet.
How many lost hours of sleep have you suffered?
Just a few hours drive from my home, Harvey tore houses to the ground. Six million people, just in Houston alone, were directly in the storm's rage. The echoes of sadness from these people could be felt all over Texas and Louisana. So much sorrow was in the air that their anxiety was palpable; no one could even think of anything but them.
How will the children of this time be affected by the natural and man made disasters we are living through?
Now, Irma stands to topple Florida with two other named hurricanes right behind her. Trying to fathom that we will be watching this train wreck of a natural disaster for a few more weeks is almost too much. We are helpless.
We need to start a BIG discussion of the new normal called Global Warming. If these storms don't open the eyes of the unbelieving then nothing will. Period.
But the rest of us, we are awake and certainly not sleeping.
How many lost hours of sleep have you suffered?
Just a few hours drive from my home, Harvey tore houses to the ground. Six million people, just in Houston alone, were directly in the storm's rage. The echoes of sadness from these people could be felt all over Texas and Louisana. So much sorrow was in the air that their anxiety was palpable; no one could even think of anything but them.
How will the children of this time be affected by the natural and man made disasters we are living through?
Now, Irma stands to topple Florida with two other named hurricanes right behind her. Trying to fathom that we will be watching this train wreck of a natural disaster for a few more weeks is almost too much. We are helpless.
We need to start a BIG discussion of the new normal called Global Warming. If these storms don't open the eyes of the unbelieving then nothing will. Period.
But the rest of us, we are awake and certainly not sleeping.
70
Oh the melodrama. I remember Camille with it's 200 mph winds almost 50 years ago. Back then we just called these powerful hurricanes. Nowadays a hurricane can't happen without having to listen to whiny lazy jet setting carbon energy and perpetual warfare supporting hypocrites looking for handouts from big energy. The sky is falling! Get on yer knees and worship at the feet of your new climate masters!
The genie is out of the bottle, the only way to effect change would be for all 8 billion of us to live like monks, especially the wealthy, give up your jet setting lavish lifestyles.
The genie is out of the bottle, the only way to effect change would be for all 8 billion of us to live like monks, especially the wealthy, give up your jet setting lavish lifestyles.
1
Just like Sandy Hook didn't bring forth gun control legislation, I am not hopeful that these intensified storms will open the eyes of the deniers.
9
@EC Speake
Thanks for the breath of fresh air. Excellent description of the Geary-eyed know-littles who seem to think the world began the day of their birth...
Thanks for the breath of fresh air. Excellent description of the Geary-eyed know-littles who seem to think the world began the day of their birth...
Photos should be published of damage, if any (and with a storm surge like that shown in the photo below, I would imagine substantial), to Trump's St Martin palace, followed by a series of photos depicting its restoration to its former glory, while the rest of the island languishes in its destruction - except the airport, of course.
14
The upcoming storm surge upon the Miami vicinity and other low elevation laying areas, is going to be devastating. This may be the clarion call to those seeking to build or live by the shoreline, hopefully.
Or they most likely will continue baling water as the taxpayers keep bailing them out with large amounts of our federal dollars.
Or they most likely will continue baling water as the taxpayers keep bailing them out with large amounts of our federal dollars.
15
Hate to point this out but, all of Massachusetts is considered part of the coastline. I suggest everyone in the Boston area give up their homes and move further inland. Likewise, everyone in NYC, New Jersey, and the Carolinas. Also, the entire population of California should move away from that earthquake zone they call home. In fact, let's all just huddle in the middle of the country and hope for the best.
4
Yup, agreed. Cape Cod is next as are other areas nearby. Unfortunately, they include old, decrepit nuclear power plants located along the shoreline, (Pilgrim and Indian Point). A hard hit similar to the Hurricane of '38 will devastate things here as well, perhaps permanently.
2
Perhaps Rush Limbaugh would like to explain to the citizens of the countries already leveled by Irma how this storm is just a liberal hoax. Republicans, and other Americans of common sense, isn't about time that this right-wing media dishonesty and stupidity come to an end? Why do we continue to accept and ignore blatant lies? What does that say about us? Nothing we want to hear. Be safe all those in harm's way of this liberal hoax Irma.
56
Do you think Rush will evacuate his Palm Beach bunker today? Got to leave quick so he can get his Gulfstream Jet out of harms way. No extra room for excavates just like the Joel Osteen Lakewood Church, they might mess-up the interior.
He can broadcast from Satellite Phone in his plane.
He can broadcast from Satellite Phone in his plane.
5
Congratulations to the paper of record for detailed hurricane coverage with scant if any reference to climate change.
Disgusting.
Disgusting.
3
I can't find any page in the NYTimes telling us ways to help the people of these devastated Caribbean islands. Can you please display that information more clearly?
5
NOW can we talk about climate change?
17
I'm not a particularly religious person, but I think nature (or a higher power) is trying to give us strong, convincing evidence of global warming and showing Trump how nature builds a wall.
40
Florida leaders have been extinguishing science & data for many years:
"We were told not to use the terms ‘climate change,’ ‘global warming’ or ‘sustainability,’ " said Christopher Byrd, an attorney with the Florida state’s Department of Environmental Protection from 2008 until 2013. "That message was communicated to me and my colleagues by our superiors in the Office of General Counsel."
Trump profited from the 2005 hurricane that hit Mar A Lago ($17 million) for undocumented damages.
Are other New Yorkers that own property in Florida also quiet because they profit from these disasters?
"We were told not to use the terms ‘climate change,’ ‘global warming’ or ‘sustainability,’ " said Christopher Byrd, an attorney with the Florida state’s Department of Environmental Protection from 2008 until 2013. "That message was communicated to me and my colleagues by our superiors in the Office of General Counsel."
Trump profited from the 2005 hurricane that hit Mar A Lago ($17 million) for undocumented damages.
Are other New Yorkers that own property in Florida also quiet because they profit from these disasters?
46
The signs of global warming have been clear in Miami with flooding due to sea level rise for some time. Any idiot can see the proof on the ground. Florida's future will depend on taking these changes seriously and coming up with $$$$ to put up a sea wall...that's the wall they need, Donald Trump!
5
PLEASE--do not lump all New Yorkers in with Trump. In fact, except for his unfortunate progeny, do not lump ANY New Yorkers in with Trump.
No, New Yorkers are not "quiet" about FL's ridiculous response to climate change because they own property there and somehow profit from the damage that hurricanes do. Having lived through the rebuilding process from one (Sandy), I assure you virtually no homeowner in the path of a storm is looking at its approach as a profit making venture (unless that person also runs a shady home rehab business).
Floridians voted for their Governor, and he appointed those officials whose response to climate change is (essentially) to stick their fingers in their ears, close their eyes, and says "BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, I can't hear you!!" until the conversation changes. If they (or you) are looking for someone to blame, the ones who elected these fools (as well as the ones who gave us the Climate Change Denier in Chief) can just look in the mirror.
No, New Yorkers are not "quiet" about FL's ridiculous response to climate change because they own property there and somehow profit from the damage that hurricanes do. Having lived through the rebuilding process from one (Sandy), I assure you virtually no homeowner in the path of a storm is looking at its approach as a profit making venture (unless that person also runs a shady home rehab business).
Floridians voted for their Governor, and he appointed those officials whose response to climate change is (essentially) to stick their fingers in their ears, close their eyes, and says "BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, I can't hear you!!" until the conversation changes. If they (or you) are looking for someone to blame, the ones who elected these fools (as well as the ones who gave us the Climate Change Denier in Chief) can just look in the mirror.
9
This narrative of "All New Yorkers - good. All Floridians, Texans, Southerners - bad." is not only tiring, but inaccurate. Plenty of New Yorkers voted for Trump, just as many voters in Florida and Texas voted for Clinton. It's unfair to hold every citizen in a state responsible for how that state's electoral votes were ultimately cast. To lump everyone together, regardless of his individual vote, would mean that EVERY citizen of the US should be held responsible for the ultimate election of Donald Trump, including you, sir.
1
For those living in Florida, Georgia, and SC, this is looking to be one or two categories stronger than Matthew. Be forewarned.
6
A correction to locally reported news (WIOD 710 MIA)
"AAL fights available at $99 price cap"
From my voice conservation with AAL RES agent in RDU @approx 0500 EDT
No AAL flights out of FLL .
No $99 price cap
Lowest priced fare I found on AAL site yesterday was $1400 (approx) Tried to book but was not available and got caught in web site loop
"Hurricane" insurance is no longer "Replacement"
2 Components 1.) Wind/Storm 2.) Fed Subsidized Flood
(Maybe more now. Have not followed since I sold my FLA RE in 2005. )
FYI
If damage to physical asset occurs, it will not be rebuilt as is. with exiting insurance mechanisms.
Like Houston, that would require additional Congressional/Presidential action.
Hope this is helpful to my fellow Americans and all humans currently residing in affected areas.
DAB
"AAL fights available at $99 price cap"
From my voice conservation with AAL RES agent in RDU @approx 0500 EDT
No AAL flights out of FLL .
No $99 price cap
Lowest priced fare I found on AAL site yesterday was $1400 (approx) Tried to book but was not available and got caught in web site loop
"Hurricane" insurance is no longer "Replacement"
2 Components 1.) Wind/Storm 2.) Fed Subsidized Flood
(Maybe more now. Have not followed since I sold my FLA RE in 2005. )
FYI
If damage to physical asset occurs, it will not be rebuilt as is. with exiting insurance mechanisms.
Like Houston, that would require additional Congressional/Presidential action.
Hope this is helpful to my fellow Americans and all humans currently residing in affected areas.
DAB
6
Climate change. Please say it. I understand Fox News won't. But The Times is real news.
30
The epa won't accept research proposals that have the words "clinate change". We're back in the Middle Ages.
13
Not only the EPA.
At its early stages, lots of hurricanes are candidates for the worst ever. To emphasize that about Irma is to emphasize the unknown. Speculation becomes news. The reports of Harvery told us that it was the costliest hurricane ever. Generally unmentioned was the fact that its death toll was far shy of the worst hurricanes. I would like a balanced and truthful account of these hurricanes. Instead, their extremes are emphasized and anything moderate about them is buried. It certainly doesn't contribute to public understanding to skew the facts. The message we get is that Irma and Harvey are among the worst hurricanes ever. The truth is yes and no. Distorting the seriousness of these storms is dishonest and serves some purpose of the media that is in conflict with the public interest to know.
7
Very easy for you to say Pheonix!
I see nothing distorted about this or any other report I've read or heard about Irma.
What's the matter? Does the coverage of Irma conflict with the widespread, nonsensical and ultimately self-defeating denial of climate change?
I see nothing distorted about this or any other report I've read or heard about Irma.
What's the matter? Does the coverage of Irma conflict with the widespread, nonsensical and ultimately self-defeating denial of climate change?
14
The public needs to know that these are Not Moderate events.
All time record rainfall from Harvey.
Highest sustained wind speeds (185) over 24hrs for Irma.
Yes, the public needs to know what is happening. Extreme events and extreme damage and disruption.
All time record rainfall from Harvey.
Highest sustained wind speeds (185) over 24hrs for Irma.
Yes, the public needs to know what is happening. Extreme events and extreme damage and disruption.
6
The truth is these storms are far stronger and more dangerous than most in recorded history. Reporters who risk their lives to share eyewitness accounts are quite aware of the difference between mild disruption and utter devastation. I have lived through Hugo, Fran, Floyd, Ernesto, Irene, and Sandy, and I can tell you that to quibble about which words most accurately describe such an event is pointless. The Great New England Hurricane of 1938 (aka the Long Island Express) was the costliest and deadliest hurricane to hit the US in the 20th century, surpassed possibly only by the Great Colonial Hurricane of 1635. At 185 mph, Irma's winds are 25 mph stronger than those of 1938. Irma carries the strongest winds ever recorded over the Atlantic Ocean. This is not a maybe yes, maybe no event, and the reporting is not skewed. Maybe someday the good people of Phoenix can have a go at describing the Great Hurricane of Scottsdale!
4
With the monstrous devastation of Harvey, and now Irma so close behind, it feels like something has changed. Have we reached the tipping point, is that what this is? I can't imagine that we should wait until next year to see of the trend continues. Instead, shouldn't we lobby our officials at every level to make climate change their number one priority?
Our scientists, and some of our politicians have been warning us, and now our planet is sounding the alarm in a way we can't ignore. Woe unto all of us if we don't take it seriously. It looks like time is running out.
Our scientists, and some of our politicians have been warning us, and now our planet is sounding the alarm in a way we can't ignore. Woe unto all of us if we don't take it seriously. It looks like time is running out.
30
It looks to me as if time has already run out.
8
The NYT point out that the truly sad thing is that Jose will follow a path very similar to Irma and rake the Northern Lesser Antilles and Virgin Islands as a major hurricane (albeit not nearly as strong as Irma) in just a couple of days.
7
Island living can be idyllic, slow and beautiful, more village-like, hearkening back to an earlier day in the development of man - at least if you choose wisely and stay out of the cities incongruously transplanted to some islands.
But with the exposure to the beauty of nature, comes the exposure to her wrath, a fact island people have lived with for thousand of years.
We now have the benefit of science to give us some lead time to prepare for the coming of the wrath, something they did not have for most of the history of the islands. They had only the behavior of the wind and water and birds and animals and their gut to know what was approaching.
The same science we rely on to predict the impending storm, to rely on the hospitals to save us if we get hurt, to build the roads and bridges and planes we use to get out of the way if we can, that same science is saying climate change is occurring at an alarmingly fast rate - our weather will continue to get more severe - the water will continue to rise leaving island people at more risk.
Why are we eager to accept science and their results in the fields of meteorology, medicine, aviation, space travel. We trust them with our food and water safety, submit ourselves to their scalpels and machines and medicines, fly in their contraptions through the air, watch in awe as men walk on the moon - and come back alive - but we choose, for political reasons to deny their expertise in something that threatens life on earth?
But with the exposure to the beauty of nature, comes the exposure to her wrath, a fact island people have lived with for thousand of years.
We now have the benefit of science to give us some lead time to prepare for the coming of the wrath, something they did not have for most of the history of the islands. They had only the behavior of the wind and water and birds and animals and their gut to know what was approaching.
The same science we rely on to predict the impending storm, to rely on the hospitals to save us if we get hurt, to build the roads and bridges and planes we use to get out of the way if we can, that same science is saying climate change is occurring at an alarmingly fast rate - our weather will continue to get more severe - the water will continue to rise leaving island people at more risk.
Why are we eager to accept science and their results in the fields of meteorology, medicine, aviation, space travel. We trust them with our food and water safety, submit ourselves to their scalpels and machines and medicines, fly in their contraptions through the air, watch in awe as men walk on the moon - and come back alive - but we choose, for political reasons to deny their expertise in something that threatens life on earth?
316
Well, take one example: aviation. It has been thoroughly proven: you get an a plane and it does indeed fly.
The doctrine of climate change is a long way from meeting that simple bar of credibility.
The more the media pushes certain very specific perspectives, with a frenzied near-religious conviction, the less many people feel they can trust those theories--or the media that tries to browbeat people into accepting them.
The doctrine of climate change is a long way from meeting that simple bar of credibility.
The more the media pushes certain very specific perspectives, with a frenzied near-religious conviction, the less many people feel they can trust those theories--or the media that tries to browbeat people into accepting them.
3
Scientists have reached a consensus that climate change due to human activity is real.
To obtain a consensus, many scientists from many different specialties must run peer reviewed experiments and/or observation which means the report was published in a respected journal and then was replicated by other scientists in many fields before becoming accepted. When the results of all of the peer reviewed experiments and observations all point to the same conclusion, meaning literally hundreds of scientists in different fields all over the world reached the same conclusion and confirmed the data as accurate, scientists reach at consensus which is released to the scientific and lay communities.
The fact that the media accepts the consensus and then tries to get our attention with this critical information is to their credit, not disparagement.
To obtain a consensus, many scientists from many different specialties must run peer reviewed experiments and/or observation which means the report was published in a respected journal and then was replicated by other scientists in many fields before becoming accepted. When the results of all of the peer reviewed experiments and observations all point to the same conclusion, meaning literally hundreds of scientists in different fields all over the world reached the same conclusion and confirmed the data as accurate, scientists reach at consensus which is released to the scientific and lay communities.
The fact that the media accepts the consensus and then tries to get our attention with this critical information is to their credit, not disparagement.
4
Money's. Lots of it. Cutting back on big oil means some very powerful people are going to see the money flow slow or stop. That's why they push climate change a fake and the low informed believe it.
1
Photographs of St Barts posted on Facebook show an island utterly stripped of leaves and having suffered severe storm surge flooding with broken roadways. And yet most of the roofs appear to have held. Months of repairs are ahead but it is a wealthy and well-run island and will recover, happily.
5
While I'm glad St. Barts can afford these repairs, many of the poorer islands cannot and will suffer for months as a result. This hurricane's long-term impact, like the long-term impact of many disasters, will disproportionately effect the poor.
The world needs to go to school on all these terrible storms although it will be after the fact. We need to learn quickly. I'm encouraged that Florida is moving people away from Ira's track and I wish all of Florida good luck.
8
Harvey, Irma - two hurricanes of a century within a few weeks of each other.
No mention of climate change.
Ironic that the governors and senators (Abbot, Scot, Cruz, Rubio, et al) of the two most heavily impacted states are rabid climate change deniers.
Disclaimer needed to fend off the deniers:
Climate change does not 'cause' hurricanes, it merely 'exacerbates' their impact - higher sea levels, and increased moisture carrying capacity due to warmer ocean and atmosphere.
No mention of climate change.
Ironic that the governors and senators (Abbot, Scot, Cruz, Rubio, et al) of the two most heavily impacted states are rabid climate change deniers.
Disclaimer needed to fend off the deniers:
Climate change does not 'cause' hurricanes, it merely 'exacerbates' their impact - higher sea levels, and increased moisture carrying capacity due to warmer ocean and atmosphere.
339
@RPSmith99
Apparently I needed two disclaimers, disclaimer two:
For those who deplore others for bringing up the politics of the situation at a time of personal tragedy for large numbers of victims, please spare me the alligator tears. Please pull your collective heads out of the sand. Please stop rubber necking the disasters, then when it's over stay silent and ignore steps that must be taken to mitigate future such events. I find deniers to be deplorable.
Apparently I needed two disclaimers, disclaimer two:
For those who deplore others for bringing up the politics of the situation at a time of personal tragedy for large numbers of victims, please spare me the alligator tears. Please pull your collective heads out of the sand. Please stop rubber necking the disasters, then when it's over stay silent and ignore steps that must be taken to mitigate future such events. I find deniers to be deplorable.
16
I have read the same carefully and conservatively worded conclusions in various articles and reports - but this non-scientist says that heck yeah, three hurricanes of major significance forming over the Atlantic AT ONE TIME isn't just coincidence, it's caused by climate change, PERIOD. (Emphasis courtesy of Sean Spicer). A nephew, with a PhD in something I call "high atmospherics" as best I understand his esoteric field, goes particularly ballistic at the blatant lying and denial put forth by various elements in the fossil fuel industry (gee, wonder why THEY would lie?) and the politicians they own lock, stock, and barrel (literally, by the barrel full) who continue to fiddle while the nation's coastal cities (that we waste endless money on rebuilding in the same stupid placees) will continue to drown. It's not going to get better, folks. It's only going to get worse.
1
Just horrifying. Absolutely horrifying.
13
Having been through the eye of Hugo at its peak I can safely say the power of these storms is beyond imagination for those who have not experienced them.
The risk to Florida is extreme. Miami is just seven feet above sea level and most of the southern half of FL is under 10' elevation. Evacuation is your only option. Please do not delay.
The risk to Florida is extreme. Miami is just seven feet above sea level and most of the southern half of FL is under 10' elevation. Evacuation is your only option. Please do not delay.
39
Nah ! The climate is not changing It's the people who are changing, they're not the sturdy men and women of yore.What a joke !!!. Two major storms whose strength and ferocity have never been recorded before, Temperatures in San Francisco over 100 degrees. How long are governments and climate-deniers going to keep their heads buried in the sand ??
137
We need to keep Harvey and Houston in our thoughts and prayers as Irma and Jose now bear down on us. It is too late to gripe about climate change and government -- we simply need to ensure that we take care of *everyone* impacted by these unpredictable and unrelenting maelstroms. We're all in this together.
15
It is not too late to "gripe" about climate change. We can take care of those affected, but we cannot allow the deniers and their patrons in the fossil fuel industry to stand in the way of progress.
21
It's not too late, we still need to act but I agree that we need to put some focus on taking care of everyone who is impacted by this.
4
Pat:
I am certainly not a climate-change denier. We obviously need to deal with global warming and climate change. They represent *the* major threat to our national security and future well-being. I suspect that most of the "deniers" in Congress realize the threat is absolutely real but have simply been bought off by the fossil fuel industry, among others -- and they all simply cater to their own short-term personal gains with utter disregard for those who are and will be suffering.
What I am trying to say is that at this point, the *immediate future* -- we need to focus on making sure people are taken care of -- in particular, the devastation these new storms will bring could cause us to lose sight of the people needing help in the Houston area. In that sense, the prospect of additional "collateral damage" for them is all too real.
I am certainly not a climate-change denier. We obviously need to deal with global warming and climate change. They represent *the* major threat to our national security and future well-being. I suspect that most of the "deniers" in Congress realize the threat is absolutely real but have simply been bought off by the fossil fuel industry, among others -- and they all simply cater to their own short-term personal gains with utter disregard for those who are and will be suffering.
What I am trying to say is that at this point, the *immediate future* -- we need to focus on making sure people are taken care of -- in particular, the devastation these new storms will bring could cause us to lose sight of the people needing help in the Houston area. In that sense, the prospect of additional "collateral damage" for them is all too real.
6
Truly horrifying. Can we keep the politics out of this, come together and help Houston, the Caribbean and the next round of victims?
7
Can we bring politicians together to help hurricane victims and work to slow and mitigate the inevitable damage that's coming from human-induced climate change with its attendant global warming?
2
With all of these once-a-century storms serially stacked up, perhaps Mother Nature is trying to give us a message.
81
To keep the reason for increased intensity fresh in our minds, I would suggest changing the moniker Hurricane to Climate Change. So we should say Climate Change Irma or Climate Change Harvey.
16
Perhaps in dealing with the horrific effects of these storms in our own quarter of the world, more people will come to the realization that we barely have the resources to deal with unavoidable destruction from natural events, without piling on manmade disruption - whether through unabated assaults on the environment or war.
What are our plans for dealing with higher levels of the oceans around the world? For more extreme conditions including prolonged droughts or flooding - at "1000 year" levels? Irma is "weather" but arguably amped by rising ocean temperatures. Harvey's prolonged floods are related to ignoring identified risks by allowing development with absolutely no regard to mitigation or preventive measures.
For an advanced country to stumble forward as if every single natural disaster is a complete surprise is equal to condoning future destruction of many areas.
This isn't just a story about individual human loss.
What are our plans for dealing with higher levels of the oceans around the world? For more extreme conditions including prolonged droughts or flooding - at "1000 year" levels? Irma is "weather" but arguably amped by rising ocean temperatures. Harvey's prolonged floods are related to ignoring identified risks by allowing development with absolutely no regard to mitigation or preventive measures.
For an advanced country to stumble forward as if every single natural disaster is a complete surprise is equal to condoning future destruction of many areas.
This isn't just a story about individual human loss.
387
Cheryl, The way a good half of Americans have chosen to deal with the mounting evidence of the issues you raised (higher oceans, extreme weather) is to deny and / or ignore them completely, and to elect into the Oval Office an ignorant con man who pulled the United States out of the Paris Climate Accord and who placed into the highest positions of our government Tillerson, Pruitt and Solis, the very men who will surely make the world even greater and safer for the fossil fuel and petrochemical industries.
15
I have been optimistic that relative to the destruction of the world through human violence, WWIII for example, all out nuclear war, I held the belief that the species was just not so stupid as to destroy itself. Apocalypse. Our apparent unshakeable attitude about our role in changing our environment causes me to believe that maybe we really are stupid enough to destroy it all.
1
Well this IS no "plans for dealing with higher levels of the oceans around the world". There simply is NOT a way to move the huge population - billions - living on the coast lines worldwide to higher ground. It would require massive natural resources to implement, massive bulldozing of currently vacant land (with presumably some intact nature environment still in place) and massive outlays of CO2 into the atmosphere. It's in no way feasible even as it is absolutely imperative for survival. So the "plan" will be mad scrambles as the world bites us back for what we've done to it. Mad scrambles for anything and everything. It's gonna get ugly.
We are the frog in the slowly heating pot except there is no place to jump out to once the pot gets too hot. And we are still adding tens of millions more frogs into the pot each year. We are a truly stupid species.
We are the frog in the slowly heating pot except there is no place to jump out to once the pot gets too hot. And we are still adding tens of millions more frogs into the pot each year. We are a truly stupid species.
1
The comments in the NY Times about this storm over the past couple days have been deplorable. There are plenty of stories where people can vent their outrage about the president, or politics in general. I hope today is different, because I want to read about the weather, and people's personal stories about this storm.
17
You have a point. I think it's important for us to address the issues around this storm, FEMA funding, climate etc. but right now we should take a break from the anger and disappointment, however justifiable and focus on helping people in need.
6
You must not understand what politics means. Politics are directly related to what we do in response to a storm, or other natural disaster. This weird kneejerk reaction that some people have to "politics" shows me that they really don't understand how the world works at all, and that they're angry when political actions or perspectives bump up against things that actually happen in the world.
67
Being maudlin accomplishes nothing; nor does wasting time reporting dozens of repetitive personal anecdotes. Holding lawmakers and public servants accountable is a better use of jounalistic resources. Holding individuals accountable for their own choices is the only way they will ever learn.
25
If the "four sturdiest" buildings on St. Martin were destroyed, I imagine
St. Martin is totally devastated.
St. Martin is totally devastated.
21
In 1933, before we would be seeing effects of CC & when -- according to NOAA -- global & SSTs were lower than today -- there were 20 tropical storms. 11 became hurricanes: 2 cat 5, 3 cat 4, 1 cat 3. A total of 6 major hurricanes. The hurricane season lasted from June through Nov and there were only 13 days without an active storm.
As the following chart from the National Hurricane center shows, the decade with the most hurricanes hitting the US was the 1940's. There is no upward trend for either frequency or intensity. If anything the trend may be decreasing because tropical storms weren't always detected in earlier decades.
http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/pastdec.shtml
Nor does there appear to be an upward trend in total tropical storms, hurricanes or major hurricanes although 2005 was an especially busy season. But so was 1887 -- and again many storms may have been undetected.
If there is a strong link between warmer water and hurricanes we should see an upward trend in # & intensity of hurricanes. Climatologists should be able to correlate storm intensity & water temps. The only study I've seen that examines this I have attached. This is for major hurricanes striking Texas. Note gulf temps appear to vary normally and no relationship between storm intensity and temp.
Hurricanes, like climate, are more complex than a single causal variable.
http://www.drroyspencer.com/wp-content/uploads/TX-major-hurricanes-vs-Gu...