Spent my entire working life in the magazine business in NYC. My 30 year old daughter, raised in Brooklyn Heights, ups and moves to Nashville where we learned for the very first time that my grandmother (for whom she is named) was born and raised there. This has gone a long way to helping her fit in. We are now living half the year in Asheville and my take on both cities is that you can find whatever lifestyle you are looking for and be comfortable. If you like really fantastic food, you will be very happy!
10
There is a small section of the city in which I live that is well situated and close to everything. It is a slum and it is so bad that the local residents cut down city park pine trees to use as Christmas trees. It always has been utterly low rent, but for decades people have said that it will change(!) and get better because... location?
It never does improve and never will, just like the "southland". Yes, there are isolated points of light in the sea of dark ignorance that defines this region, but 'they' will never change in the larger sense; they will cling to their guns, religion and ignorance for dear life.
It never does improve and never will, just like the "southland". Yes, there are isolated points of light in the sea of dark ignorance that defines this region, but 'they' will never change in the larger sense; they will cling to their guns, religion and ignorance for dear life.
16
As a native New Yorker living in the southern Appalachians, this look into the complexity of southern cultures is much appreciated. In these polarized times, any nuanced look at the peoples and letters coming from the southern states will push against the facile stereotyping that is thriving today.
22
As a native Southerner who thought she understood our history and culture, it was only after living away for three decades and observing the people and the place from a distance that I came to terms with both. Now that I've returned, I feel like an outsider, though I keep my opinions to myself. Quite simply, we Southerners need to do a lot of quiet and honest reflecting before we can move forward. For we are not yet as special as we think.
49
Why do southerners always talk about their Southern Heritage. I've never heard that from anyone in the Pacific Northwest, I have never heard that in the Northeast,I have never heard that in the Southwest. I have always found it strange.
51
The South is a nice place to live if you are white and like material things. Cost of living is low, taxes are low, people are nice, weather is good, you feel like a valued member of society. You just have this feeling in the back of your mind that this is all superficial - that you survive because of air conditioning, artificial lakes, cheap illegal labor, ..
40
You know, God does not care one whit about football, especially the SEC variety.
24
I grew up in the south but have lived in the northeast and midwest for many years. I just have no interest in going back there other than to vacation and visit relatives. Based on my own experiences, if you are a progressive and a non-believer, and not into college football or "keeping up with the Joneses," you are just not going to fit in there, at least not where I was hanging out. Maybe larger urban areas would be better.
I admit my current city is not utopia (though it feels like it sometimes!) and my state seems like it's going backward instead of forward lately. I guess there's always the northwest coast!
I admit my current city is not utopia (though it feels like it sometimes!) and my state seems like it's going backward instead of forward lately. I guess there's always the northwest coast!
22
I lived outside of Charleston, SC, for four years in the mid to late 2000's, worked in the downtown area a few times, and moved to rural FL for six and a half long grueling months, only to flee back to my home state. I met many nice people, good people, caring people. But mostly, it appeared superficial to me. Underneath that "Southern charm" is suspiciousness of outsiders, an undercurrent of hostility, and misplaced pride in the "Southern" way of living. I even worked with one young man, who was in medical school no less, who still called the Civil War the "War of Northern Aggression." The South has a long way to go to pull itself out of it's racist past.
71
Had to work in North Carolina for a few months, not too long ago. My impression of Raleigh-Durham (after landing there) was that it must be similar to landing on an aircraft carrier in the middle of the ocean. Utterly alone and forlorn, surrounded by a barren yet hostile sea. Yeah, I know, lots of things in the ocean, and it's actually a very interesting entity to study, but it doesn't change the fact that it's the ocean and it is not your world.
21
It's always easier to throw the baby out with the bathwater than to ask the baby how it thinks and feels. Last time I checked the electoral map, this entire country has a race problem. But blame the South. It's much easier than looking in the mirror.
82
A lifelong Northerner living in one of the most segregated cities in America agrees with you, that racism and hate is an ongoing problem everywhere. Placing blame rather than admitting fault comes too naturally. There’s no difference between black kids being murdered on a whites only Chicago beach and what the South is accused of. Anyone who is comfortable with their American heritage is ignorant of that heritage. America is nothing but imperfect people, but mostly good people that make mistakes from time to time. Accusers need to admit that there is massive goodness that makes up the majority of America and the deniers of the present and past need to admit and accept the bad and strive to do better. I admit that my country and I have done, and continue to do, bad things to each other and I resolve to be a better person and to teach my children that citizenship is the only status that makes us true Americans.
14
How could you possibly leave out the best of all the southern publications - The Texas Monthly?
17
Texas Monthly. No "The."
And Texas isn't southern.
2
Texas is not part of the deep south but it was part of the confederacy. In my experience the difference is that Texans haven't been taught to celebrate or romanticize the culture of their slave-owning past.
instead, they're taught to celebrate their unique TEXAS! heritage—much to the annoyance of the rest of America.
Here's a great piece on that particular topic written last year by NYT Houston Bureau chief, Manny Fernandez.
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/08/us/what-makes-texas-texas.html
Mr. Fernandez should win a Pulitzer for his incredibly accurate and moving coverage of Harvey's impact on the city and state he's come to know. This is just one example of HIS "remarkable heart and grit":
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/03/us/houston-highway-resilience-snapsho...®ion=stream&module=stream_unit&version=latest&contentPlacement=2&pgtype=collection
Here is another:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/29/us/volunteer-rescue-crews-hurricane-h...
instead, they're taught to celebrate their unique TEXAS! heritage—much to the annoyance of the rest of America.
Here's a great piece on that particular topic written last year by NYT Houston Bureau chief, Manny Fernandez.
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/08/us/what-makes-texas-texas.html
Mr. Fernandez should win a Pulitzer for his incredibly accurate and moving coverage of Harvey's impact on the city and state he's come to know. This is just one example of HIS "remarkable heart and grit":
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/03/us/houston-highway-resilience-snapsho...®ion=stream&module=stream_unit&version=latest&contentPlacement=2&pgtype=collection
Here is another:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/29/us/volunteer-rescue-crews-hurricane-h...
5
All of these magazines (and other South-producing machines, such as the NYT) offer two-ingredient variations of the same recipe. The ingredients are "racist" and "anti-modern" (artisanal, agricultural, down-home, "hospitality," senseofplacecommunityfamilyhistory, old-timey [but possibly with a dash of sophistication], Such Good Manners, "they really appreciate leisure down there!", etc., etc.) It's a pointless recipe, excepting demand for it.
6
Might want to actually read these magazines or sites before making a sweeping comment about them.
31
I've read them all, and the branding is only slightly different. SL is bourgeois azaleas + heritage festivals + Rick Bragg. G&G is $37k shotguns (as noted) and super-authentic heritage grains. Oxford American offers "think pieces" on southern identity by persons slightly more literate than Rick Bragg, plus foodways. Bitter Southerner is $40 hand forged bottle cap openers, "southern identity" from the hipster angst POV, and (also) azaleas. Haven't read scalawag. But (with the exception of SL, which, to its credit, has gone mostly pure anodyne: more cheese straws, less Bragg et al), they all sell a navel-gazing version of "what it means to be southern" and what you can buy to support that identity. The last part may be unfair to OA.
11
I love Garden and Gun. The American Rifleman smashed with Southern living. Where else do you have ads for custom made English shotguns that start at $37k?
7
Encountering the North-South cultural context, which seems to live heavily in the South, when you are from the West has always been a bit like hearing about the old world countries where people are full of "their" history. But history does not and never has represented the lives of individuals very well. Stories do that better. Thanks for the reminder about the Oxford American, which I lost track of, and an introduction to the Bitter Southerner. I will get a year subscription to each.
10
One of the things that makes the South distinctive is its strong tie to history. And this history, first and foremost, revolves around the Civil War. The Bitter Southerner expressly excludes those who champion states rights, the rebel flag, and men who like hoop skirts, The price it places on cultural modernization appears to be the denial of history. That seems like feel good reform that fails to reconcile with a past that is present for most.
3
No. It's the denial of myth -- in particular, the negative feedback loop of cosplay dixie-ism -- in place of history.
23
You can't possibly have read it, then. There are constant explorations of the South's history, placed in various contexts.
6
Walt Whitman's masterpiece "When Lilacs Last in the Dooryard Bloom'd" is easily the best work of literature to emerge from the aftermath of the Lincoln assassination if not from the entire Civil War. The southern legacy of that war is buried in Arlington National Cemetery It was Robert E. Lee's estate in Northern Virginia. He was the commandant of the U.S. Military Academy at West Point and subsequently the commander of the Army of Northern Virginia. His treachery to the United States was paid back by the unpaid use of his property. No historian much less a stringer for a evanescent magazine would or could say otherwise.
10
Thank you for introducing me to these magazines. I'm from Brooklyn and recently bought a house in Savannah. In a very short time I've realized that the South is not as "foreign" as us northerners think.
21
Please do not turn Savannah into Brooklyn! A "foreign exchange" program should be established which requires an equal number of Georgians to re-locate to Brooklyn.
6
There are plenty of Georgians in NYC.....including me.
12
Just returned to Birmingham after avoiding Alabama since the election. I found the city more diverse than ever, same sex couples holding hands, multiracial couples, much less Fox on TV and frankly, less discussion about football and more about the environment and sustainable living. I saw only one DT sign. I was shocked and had expected much worse. While this "little blue dot in a big red state" may be the exception and not the rule, the same goes for my hometown of Miami and the rest of Florida.
11
You need to spend some quality time in the Tampa Bay area, Gablesgirl. There are more blue dots afloat in this state than you may have expected.
4
Ignorance obviously doesn't respect borders.
3
Sadly, this seems like just about any article about the South whether it comes from a native or a visitor. We forget that all parts of the country have their complexity and their skels in the closet. The flipside is that we tolerate Southern exceptionalism. Things as mundane as recipe comments can be filled with scorn about dishes being "Southern" and made only a certain way when in fact the ingredients have always been available to all and prepared in a variety of different ways for generations. Whether its biscuits, cornbread or flags, it gets to be tiresome to here from Southerners how they're unique. Sadly, its the extremes of feudalism and subjugation that are unique along with the persistence of poverty and its consequences like poor health. I'd be interested if the magazines took on those things as more than just injured buried pieces of well intentioned White Southerners. then perhaps the South could teach us something rather than just complain.
6
Might help if you read us, dude.
36
I don't recall ever reading a recipe comment full of "scorn".
Get some real problems to complain about!
Get some real problems to complain about!
6
Interesting article.
No doubt the South has been jolted by the influx of Northerners in the past 20-30 years. A friend of mine from Ohio got his PhD at UNC in the early '80s and were surprised to discover he and his Hoosier wife were still very much considered outsider Yankees. They moved back North, glad they'd gotten out, but recently they moved back to N Carolina for a new job and don't mind.
Things have changed, clearly. Quite likely, there is a much higher percentage of "outsiders" putting down roots in the South. But change can be difficult for so many. Good for these people for facing it head on!
No doubt the South has been jolted by the influx of Northerners in the past 20-30 years. A friend of mine from Ohio got his PhD at UNC in the early '80s and were surprised to discover he and his Hoosier wife were still very much considered outsider Yankees. They moved back North, glad they'd gotten out, but recently they moved back to N Carolina for a new job and don't mind.
Things have changed, clearly. Quite likely, there is a much higher percentage of "outsiders" putting down roots in the South. But change can be difficult for so many. Good for these people for facing it head on!
10
There are no simple solutions to deeply complex and variegated issues. As a student of American history, I have always been perplexed by the poor white Southerner's stubborn political attachment to rich Southerners whose interests are diametrically opposed to his. A logical political coalition of poor whites and poor blacks has never occurred, to the detriment of both. Like oil and water, fusing the interests of these two groups has stubbornly remained Mission Impossible. Perhaps this fact alone can explain the reason for the South's tangled and oppositional grasp on the cultural reality of living in the 21st Century.
20
Mr. Reed, my father was stationed to the south (VA and NC) while in the USMC many years ago. While our family is from the north originally, the south eventually became our home. And with that the open fact of race. I was called a honky by young black boys while riding my bicycle through the then rural parts of Virginia Beach. I graduated from Booker T. Washington High School (happily I might add) -- truly one of the most amazing experiences in my life. I went to the University of Virginia, and the recent events there make me cry. Mr. Jefferson would be sad. Indeed, current race relations are a complex situation, but while one small part of this history I try in my own way to make peace and understanding with it. May all of this on this path prevail.
14
Here by me in rural Draketown, Georgia outside Atlanta there is the Georgia Peach Bar. (gapeachbar.com)
The owner calls itself the Original Oyster bar, a bar much like the one in this article.I walked in having NO idea what it was. By the entrance is a plastic model, a black boy in a noose hanging from a beam. There are horrid signs everywhere and few hard drinkin’ rednecks at the bar. I retreated immediately and looked it up online:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/03/patrick-lanzo-georgia-bar-n-wor...
This is a story from five years ago and the bar is still there. The neighbors have tried to shut it down, but since Mr. Lanza’s road sign is on private property, the law can do nothing.
After living here in the South I have found that most everyone here has the same angry feelings from that War of Northern Aggression from 1861-1865. The Lost Cause.
They still resent all Yankees. Most STILL feel that slavery was OK. “Hey they had a job, housing, 3 meals a day...better that what they had in Africa.”
You want to know the REAL south? Read Tony Horwitz’ book “Confederates in the Attic.” The Sons of the Confederacy and Daughters of the Confederacy are thriving right by the KKK.
I actually saw my first march of the Mississippi KKK here in Douglasville, GA. These fools were in their satin and embroidered robes WITH HOODS OFF. I was nauseated!
http://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/kkk-plans-protest-sheriff-asks-public-to...
THIS is the South!
The owner calls itself the Original Oyster bar, a bar much like the one in this article.I walked in having NO idea what it was. By the entrance is a plastic model, a black boy in a noose hanging from a beam. There are horrid signs everywhere and few hard drinkin’ rednecks at the bar. I retreated immediately and looked it up online:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/03/patrick-lanzo-georgia-bar-n-wor...
This is a story from five years ago and the bar is still there. The neighbors have tried to shut it down, but since Mr. Lanza’s road sign is on private property, the law can do nothing.
After living here in the South I have found that most everyone here has the same angry feelings from that War of Northern Aggression from 1861-1865. The Lost Cause.
They still resent all Yankees. Most STILL feel that slavery was OK. “Hey they had a job, housing, 3 meals a day...better that what they had in Africa.”
You want to know the REAL south? Read Tony Horwitz’ book “Confederates in the Attic.” The Sons of the Confederacy and Daughters of the Confederacy are thriving right by the KKK.
I actually saw my first march of the Mississippi KKK here in Douglasville, GA. These fools were in their satin and embroidered robes WITH HOODS OFF. I was nauseated!
http://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/kkk-plans-protest-sheriff-asks-public-to...
THIS is the South!
18
Having lived in Europe for a number of years, I am always amazed when I read or hear sentences that begin with" Americans.... think, like, etc. No one in Europe would ever lump together Belgians, Austrians, Estonians, and Poles, yet here we are living in a much larger geographical space, all calling ourselves "American." The reality is that there is as much variety within the United States as there is in a place like Europe made up of many countries. I would never take it upon myself to say there is anything that all Americans like, don't like, think, believe, etc. We are too many from too different backgrounds, and too different geographical areas. The best we can hope for is good regional voices who can help us understand their own region. Since no one region is better than any of the others, a composite of good regional publications would be the best way that a person could gain an understanding, still imperfect to be sure, of our country.
Then the rest of the world will need to learn that there is no such thing as one American perspective or voice. E Pluribus Unum, yes; but never forget the pluribus part of that motto.
Then the rest of the world will need to learn that there is no such thing as one American perspective or voice. E Pluribus Unum, yes; but never forget the pluribus part of that motto.
15
valuable as...the right to write, communicate, free speech"
1
Thanks for an interesting, resource-filled and thoughtful article. I spent my high school years in Atlanta in the 1960s and a couple of years at Georgia State U before fleeing to "anywhere but the south." My experience at that time, coming from "the north" was the deep level of resentment so many let percolate from beneath the surface of the need to promulgate a specific religion while actually praying at the alter of football. The favorite expression was, "why do you want to change our way of life?" An expression still heard today sadly.
The sense of entitlement and racism of white people there was astounding. There were "good" people, those trying to figure out how to make something else out of the place. It was not my battle so I left. However, Georgia remains basically the same: Atlanta is "blueish" and the rest of the state is mostly red. Not too different from much of the south and much of the US for that matter. Urban areas tend toward the "blue" while the resentment fueled suburban and rural areas tend toward Trumplandia. Also there are those who want to mimic "the southern way."
When poor and middle class "white" people realize just how they have been manipulated by the power structure, they may actually come around. That may be everywhere in the US but extremely so in the south.
Now, when will they be removing the three horsemen of the apocalypse on Stone Mountain just outside of Atlanta? It is one of the most blatant and disgraceful Confederate monuments of all!
The sense of entitlement and racism of white people there was astounding. There were "good" people, those trying to figure out how to make something else out of the place. It was not my battle so I left. However, Georgia remains basically the same: Atlanta is "blueish" and the rest of the state is mostly red. Not too different from much of the south and much of the US for that matter. Urban areas tend toward the "blue" while the resentment fueled suburban and rural areas tend toward Trumplandia. Also there are those who want to mimic "the southern way."
When poor and middle class "white" people realize just how they have been manipulated by the power structure, they may actually come around. That may be everywhere in the US but extremely so in the south.
Now, when will they be removing the three horsemen of the apocalypse on Stone Mountain just outside of Atlanta? It is one of the most blatant and disgraceful Confederate monuments of all!
17
They will be removing the three horse man when they tear down Berkley " the home of free speech"
1
The South is like every other place, it has great beauty, fascinating people, really distinct locations - if you look hard enough, and yes, there's also darkness, evil, and trouble here too. People can chose what they want to see about it, but I would strongly caution against anyone using the vague generality "The South". The South is many things, places, and people who share a geographic location, and sometimes not much else. I think how the place is seen reflects as much about the place as it does about the beholder. People who lump it into superficial categories, think every town looks the same, and chose not to get to know the people well enough, will never see anything else. People who are curious, have humanity, and like to explore with an open mind, will find some totally different in the same place.
"The past is never gone, it even isn't even past," as they say.
...and don't move here.
"The past is never gone, it even isn't even past," as they say.
...and don't move here.
28
Why does the Times hit me with blaring Allstate insurance commercials when I read this article? Intrusive, unwanted, with no buttons to turn it off. Starting to make the WaPo subscription the winner in this contest I'm having for my subscription dollar.
4
The paradoxes of the South have contributed to a body of great literature as a direct result of the moral and social conflicts presented by slavery, segregation, and racism. None of us native Southerners can explain it or even understand it. But white people all over this country read "To Kill a Mockingbird" and then participate in a system of criminal law that overwhelmingly convicts and imprisons people of color. Reminds me of going to see "Unto These Hills" in Cherokee, N.C. as a child, and watching the pageant explain the forcible removal and ethnic cleansing of Native Americans from Georgia and Alabama by foot to Oklahoma under the direct orders of President Andrew Jackson, who outright defied a ruling of the Supreme Court to disregard treaties with the Cherokee people. Andrew Jackson's picture is on the $20 bill.
30
The South is complex and contradictory. As a child of this region and now an adult, there were and are many things that dismay and delight. Family is what generally keeps us in place. Internet magazines like the Bitter Southerner shine a light on our benign or amusing peculiarities as well as on the uncomfortable truths that plague us. While I am proud to be a southerner, I feel the same way my great-aunt Charlotte did when she said, “I don’t want to leave this place but I wish some of my kin would.”
22
I love you, Bonnie. Thanks, boss.
3
The South exhausts me. Include Arkansas and East Texas and you have a largely Third World nation within our own borders. The poverty, the hate, the self-imposed celebrated ignorance are the result of many many years of bad choices. The region hoovers up federal money and then hates the federal government. Celebrating any type of Southern exceptionalism is suspect. This is a part of the country that cannot figure out how to deliver basic services. There are islands - Atlanta, Miami, spring to mind - that have shed some of the disastrous legacies, but by and large, the biggest parts of the South are content to sink ever-deeper into the muck of ignorance and racism - and drag down the rest of the country with them.
58
I've lived in the north and south about the same amount of time (25 + years in each). The south is a great place to live (as is the north). I've raised a child here (yes, a yankee parent of a southern child!) I've come to love it and call it home. I've recently discovered The Bitter Southerner and think it's a gem; so glad to see it mentioned here.
One big issue that I've noticed in my time in GA is that while racism seems to exist in both places about equally, fewer people seem willing to admit to it in the south. I had racist relatives, and friends in the north, but down here I run into many southerns who tell me: 1. No one in their family was racist. 2. Many slaves were treated better than poor white southerners. 3. Some slave owners were "nice" slave owners who "loved" their slaves 4. If they had African American hired help in the past they were treated "like members of the family." Many southerners go to great lenghts to depict their ancestors as far poorer and worse off than slaves, as though it were a competition. Makes me wonder how all of the Jim Crow laws were passed without any racists down here. I don't blame anyone for the faults of their anscestors, but I do have a problem with the attempts at humanizing the institution of slavery and the deep denial of racism down here. Can't we all, north and south, admit to racism being a national problem? Slavery is a national disgrace? We can't change anything unless we first admit to it.
One big issue that I've noticed in my time in GA is that while racism seems to exist in both places about equally, fewer people seem willing to admit to it in the south. I had racist relatives, and friends in the north, but down here I run into many southerns who tell me: 1. No one in their family was racist. 2. Many slaves were treated better than poor white southerners. 3. Some slave owners were "nice" slave owners who "loved" their slaves 4. If they had African American hired help in the past they were treated "like members of the family." Many southerners go to great lenghts to depict their ancestors as far poorer and worse off than slaves, as though it were a competition. Makes me wonder how all of the Jim Crow laws were passed without any racists down here. I don't blame anyone for the faults of their anscestors, but I do have a problem with the attempts at humanizing the institution of slavery and the deep denial of racism down here. Can't we all, north and south, admit to racism being a national problem? Slavery is a national disgrace? We can't change anything unless we first admit to it.
22
Save the nuanced descriptions, folks. They don't matter.
This discussion is about as consequential as those that examined the better rooms on the Titanic, critiqued the string quartet, and provided a lengthy discussion of what people were wearing in the steerage.
Talk all you want, the icebergs of race and religion, and its close cousins of segregation, extremism, violence, hatred, bigotry are too many to avoid. The south is a space where someone claiming Harvey was caused by gays receives traction. And the dedication to mumbo jumbo, conspiracy theories, and paranoia gets in the way of social justice, education . . . . and eventually the right to exist.
I am sure the south is a very nice, very complex place. Of course there are good people everywhere. But none of that matters when one lynching begins, when half the country thinks the antifa and flag waving Nazis are morally equivalent (a major push for this equivalence pushed by Fox).
I love a lot of things southern, not just Alabama football, bourbon, barbecue, country and folk music, southern rock, New Orleans jazz, and Tom Petty (too many to count). And I, like Texans, believe Texas is fantastic. And of course I can appreciate nuanced arguments and shades of grayness.
But this discussion is a careful attempt - whether explicitly so intended or not - to navigate around the very large icebergs that doom all ships.
Kalidan
This discussion is about as consequential as those that examined the better rooms on the Titanic, critiqued the string quartet, and provided a lengthy discussion of what people were wearing in the steerage.
Talk all you want, the icebergs of race and religion, and its close cousins of segregation, extremism, violence, hatred, bigotry are too many to avoid. The south is a space where someone claiming Harvey was caused by gays receives traction. And the dedication to mumbo jumbo, conspiracy theories, and paranoia gets in the way of social justice, education . . . . and eventually the right to exist.
I am sure the south is a very nice, very complex place. Of course there are good people everywhere. But none of that matters when one lynching begins, when half the country thinks the antifa and flag waving Nazis are morally equivalent (a major push for this equivalence pushed by Fox).
I love a lot of things southern, not just Alabama football, bourbon, barbecue, country and folk music, southern rock, New Orleans jazz, and Tom Petty (too many to count). And I, like Texans, believe Texas is fantastic. And of course I can appreciate nuanced arguments and shades of grayness.
But this discussion is a careful attempt - whether explicitly so intended or not - to navigate around the very large icebergs that doom all ships.
Kalidan
13
I subscribe to two magazines, the New Yorker and the Oxford Review for the same reasons: great writing and an wide array of topics. (Plus each year the Oxford Review sends out a compilation CD of some genre of southern music. This year it was the blues)
23
It's actually called "The Oxford American".
2
Me too--both mags. & the compilation is great!
1
I am the bitter new southerner of 5 years. There are some places where you will never feel you belong unless you were born there and the the South is one of them in a way that is difficult to understand or accept. A strange, beautiful place, but as a Yankee I fear I will never feel at home.
28
14 generations in Virginia and you are correct. The culture difference is amazing. Finally moved to Ca and felt at home immediately! Good luck!
1
And you will never “feel at home.”
I bought a foreclosed home here in Georgia on a lake. Dead end road and I have gone out of my way to help my neighbors. When I go to Home Depot or the grocery store I always ask: “What can I pick up for you?” I make Christmas cookies and knit hats and scarves for them. I’m in Americorps (VISTA) running a free medical clinic here. (Americorps is being slashed completely in Trump’s budget.)
When I’m out mowing my lawn with a push mower or planting butterfly bushes and flowers. I ALWAYS wave at neighbors coming and going. Not ONCE has anyone waved back.
There’s an older couple up the road with a home they’ve made just beautiful with landscaping timbers, shrubs, dogwood and crape myrtle. The older gentleman walks his dog down to the lake and back three times a day for 10 years. Having a service dog, I introduced myself to him and have been in their home.
I finally asked Mr. Snow (from Montana!-really!) “Why doesn’t anyone invite me over or even wave?”
He said “If you ain’t kin, you’re nothing.” He’s right. These people have lived here for generations. Most everyone on this road is related to each other. They just don’t fully trust us Yankees.
Their knowledge of the outside world (Outside the state line) is abysmal. I went over to borrow a bolt cutter from the next door neighbor. Now I’m white but from Hawai’i. While this gentleman looked for a cutter (never to be found) he said “You’re from that place with pineapples..right?”
I bought a foreclosed home here in Georgia on a lake. Dead end road and I have gone out of my way to help my neighbors. When I go to Home Depot or the grocery store I always ask: “What can I pick up for you?” I make Christmas cookies and knit hats and scarves for them. I’m in Americorps (VISTA) running a free medical clinic here. (Americorps is being slashed completely in Trump’s budget.)
When I’m out mowing my lawn with a push mower or planting butterfly bushes and flowers. I ALWAYS wave at neighbors coming and going. Not ONCE has anyone waved back.
There’s an older couple up the road with a home they’ve made just beautiful with landscaping timbers, shrubs, dogwood and crape myrtle. The older gentleman walks his dog down to the lake and back three times a day for 10 years. Having a service dog, I introduced myself to him and have been in their home.
I finally asked Mr. Snow (from Montana!-really!) “Why doesn’t anyone invite me over or even wave?”
He said “If you ain’t kin, you’re nothing.” He’s right. These people have lived here for generations. Most everyone on this road is related to each other. They just don’t fully trust us Yankees.
Their knowledge of the outside world (Outside the state line) is abysmal. I went over to borrow a bolt cutter from the next door neighbor. Now I’m white but from Hawai’i. While this gentleman looked for a cutter (never to be found) he said “You’re from that place with pineapples..right?”
13
They will make sure you don't.
7
There's a reason Hotlanta is universally known as "Black Mecca," since the city always heads the list of best cities in the world for blacks to do business in, and since the city has the richest black upper class anywhere. If you want to grasp the quite hopeful future of race in America--Trump and Nazis or no--look to Atlanta, not tragic hell holes like Baltimore and the South side of Chicago. Obama, not Trump, was the true harbinger of our racial future. After Trump, expect a "better" South to lead America out of its racial morass. This Atlanta mag is typical of how younger, hipper Southerners of all races are seeing the racial divide of the past as just as stupid as homophobia was. And look how fast the American mainstream grew out of the homophobia idiocy. Can race in the New New South be far behind? Especially since there's so much money to be made from improved race relations. Just ask Hotlanta.
54
The progression of social gentrification needs to be highlighted in the south now. The battleground monuments can be a source of educational tourism and moved out of the piblic square to fields where the re-enacters play out the civil war. The multi-cultural hipsters who call that geographical area home now should redefine the song of the south as they pour their drinks by updating the message of those lyrics.
3
Because the history of the region supports an influx of Northerners telling them how they ought to think/feel/speak/behave/eat/drink? One of my favorite memories of New York is of a doyenne of the upper east side who had never dared to venture south of New Jersey in her lifetime lecturing me on the proper way to make pimento cheese. I listened politely and thanked her for her help.
10
The South has always been fertile ground for writers, and the themes may often be driven by the tension in what Patterson Hood called "the duality of the Southern thing." However, I am not one to buy into the meaning of that duality as one that is embodied in the "typical" Southerner, and perhaps it is not meant to be taken that way. The duality is simply a euphemism for racism and its continued support by some not insignificant portion of the population. And as such, it is not more complex than any other simple moral question - you either are or you aren't a racist. There is no need to wrestle with some imagined complexity or nuance to the question or in interpretations of the "good" people in our past and present who still deeply embrace those views. The correct side is clear.
Now, how that past affected the population, which is a mix of racists, victims, and non-racists, is interesting. The past primarily affected Southerners psychologically; for the perpetrators, by the long years of telling themselves why it is OK when most know down deep it isn't, for the victims, overcoming the effects of being scarred deeply and forever, and for the non-racists, grappling simultaneously with anger at both the perpetrators and themselves for often not doing enough. That psychology has deeply informed the culture, art, and writing of the South, not always in overt ways.
Would that it were that it was the perpetrators who feel bitter. But, they don't, not here, not elsewhere.
Now, how that past affected the population, which is a mix of racists, victims, and non-racists, is interesting. The past primarily affected Southerners psychologically; for the perpetrators, by the long years of telling themselves why it is OK when most know down deep it isn't, for the victims, overcoming the effects of being scarred deeply and forever, and for the non-racists, grappling simultaneously with anger at both the perpetrators and themselves for often not doing enough. That psychology has deeply informed the culture, art, and writing of the South, not always in overt ways.
Would that it were that it was the perpetrators who feel bitter. But, they don't, not here, not elsewhere.
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Not sure about the others, but I can vouch that "Garden & Gun" is a great read.
10
Agreed... However, those prone to posing are content to let the title determine that it is beneath them.
2
I was astonished and then horrified when I first saw this glossy, now popular, magazine with the word garden followed, with evidently no irony whatsoever, by the word gun. Am I the only person who looks at this magazine's masthead and wants to cry?
I was born and raised in the South and I love it with that broken-hearted love you have for something that you fear can't be fixed, a marriage that can't be saved . . . there's so much everyday goodness there; it can put a smile on your face just remembering the last coffee you bought on the long drive back to New York in a small Virginia town where someone leapt up from eating breakfast a table nearby to help you with the door and the waitress called you "baby" . . . and yet.
I suppose this is what exile means.
I was born and raised in the South and I love it with that broken-hearted love you have for something that you fear can't be fixed, a marriage that can't be saved . . . there's so much everyday goodness there; it can put a smile on your face just remembering the last coffee you bought on the long drive back to New York in a small Virginia town where someone leapt up from eating breakfast a table nearby to help you with the door and the waitress called you "baby" . . . and yet.
I suppose this is what exile means.
49
I want to cry whenever I see a book that talks about killing mockingbirds
2
Sounds more like a self-exile.
3
Enough of the fake drama, Rajesh. Are you equally appalled by the notion of killing a mockingbird?
5
Ah, yes:
"From the outside, the American South of 2017 may seem stuck in a one-note loop of grim historical disputation..."
Except of course when those backwards sinning southerners adopt the New York City attitude.
Seems to me that this site knows little about the South, except when it needs to be put in its place with a condescending tone.
"From the outside, the American South of 2017 may seem stuck in a one-note loop of grim historical disputation..."
Except of course when those backwards sinning southerners adopt the New York City attitude.
Seems to me that this site knows little about the South, except when it needs to be put in its place with a condescending tone.
28
I read and re-read this article and somehow I am missing something in it. I lived in a part America where there was a mix of south and north, Cincinnati Ohio. I was shocked to hear people (mainly all white) tell me that slavery was not all that bad! Really!! We fought that battle nearly 150 years ago and somehow have not come to terms on who won and who lost. If you listen to right-wing talks shows, you would think that the south actually won. It took another 100 years for people of color to get even a semblance of equality and we still fight on.
Other nations have struggled with evil in their society and have moved on. Case in point Nazi Germany. Yes you will find the occasional German who will support Naziism but by far and large Germans have moved on and denounce Naziism for
all its evil. Unless we in America acknowledge the evils of Slavery and remove the symbols of Slavery we will still have that racial divide. We are making progress but sometimes we take a step forward (like with Obama) and then a step back (like with Trump). As has been shown in the last election cycle, racial division is a very easy subject to exploit and misuse.
Other nations have struggled with evil in their society and have moved on. Case in point Nazi Germany. Yes you will find the occasional German who will support Naziism but by far and large Germans have moved on and denounce Naziism for
all its evil. Unless we in America acknowledge the evils of Slavery and remove the symbols of Slavery we will still have that racial divide. We are making progress but sometimes we take a step forward (like with Obama) and then a step back (like with Trump). As has been shown in the last election cycle, racial division is a very easy subject to exploit and misuse.
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I'm afraid it's two steps back with Trump and not only in the South. Unless you draw the Mason-Dixon line at the Canadian border.
Let's hope his technical election is the White Man's Last Stand.
Let's hope his technical election is the White Man's Last Stand.
4
I went to college in the South.
It was quite an eye-opening experience that I value.
But I NEVER need to go back or here about the place EVER again.
It was quite an eye-opening experience that I value.
But I NEVER need to go back or here about the place EVER again.
39
...And you lernt to spel reel gud to!
10
As an inhabitant of Texas, I am happy to see The Bitter Southerner. There are many in the region who are willing to move forward, some who are even progressive. Texas was a great state to grow up in, we even can boast of such luminaries as Lyndon Johnson and Ann Richards. George HW Bush was a fine man, and George W Bush loves his country, his state and his fellow man. We were not always a mean, nasty place, and in fact, we were once a diverse yet incredibly united state.
14
And as a non-Texan, I am jealous that you get to have Texas Monthly, which is also a wonderful magazine.
2
Four years ago I moved back to GA from WI because the winters were long and cold and the state taxes were very high. I first lived in Athens GA, moving from Navy OCS in Newport RI. Newport was wonderful for young men and several of my class mates got married. Then off to Athens for 6 months. The worst shore duty is always better than the best sea duty. Well the Navy School in Athens was the only place in the area where you could get a mixed drink and the coeds at UGA were always welcome at our O Club. The winter was warm and the people greeted us warmly. I remember attending a football game at U of GA - most of us attending the Navy Supply Corps school were from the north and this was the height of the Vietnam war and all of us young Ensigns were there to avoid being a Army Private fighting in Vietnam. We went to this football game dressed like we were going to a Big 10 game - jeans and sweat shirts. Wow the gals were wearing heels, hose and nice dressed and the guys were decked out in 3 piece suits.
After the Navy it was NYC and the Upper East Side and then I was hired by The Coca-Cola Company in Atlanta. This was over 30 YAG and because Atlanta was really growing then, few young professionals were from the south. Forsyth County, where I now live, is the fastest growing large county in the USA for good reason - great schools, low taxes, no crime and a great airport for us frequent flyers.
There is no reason not to live here - summers are longer not hotter.
After the Navy it was NYC and the Upper East Side and then I was hired by The Coca-Cola Company in Atlanta. This was over 30 YAG and because Atlanta was really growing then, few young professionals were from the south. Forsyth County, where I now live, is the fastest growing large county in the USA for good reason - great schools, low taxes, no crime and a great airport for us frequent flyers.
There is no reason not to live here - summers are longer not hotter.
5
Forsyth County??? Ugh!
3
Interesting
2
Thank you, Mr. Fausset, for an article exploring the complexities of "the South". The region - which has nebulous borders really - is not the homogenous politically incorrect entity portrayed by too many news stories.
It is a curiosity to me, that folks who rail against the "all Muslims are terrorists" or "all Blacks are criminals" beliefs are also the ones who emphatically state that "all Southerns are racist".
This piece shines a light on the idea that in the end, Southerners are just like most other folks. We have our faults, a small number of us do bad things, we have a heritage much larger than what outsiders believe and we hope for a future that is better.
It is a curiosity to me, that folks who rail against the "all Muslims are terrorists" or "all Blacks are criminals" beliefs are also the ones who emphatically state that "all Southerns are racist".
This piece shines a light on the idea that in the end, Southerners are just like most other folks. We have our faults, a small number of us do bad things, we have a heritage much larger than what outsiders believe and we hope for a future that is better.
102
Yes, it's so complex!
White southern Christians, in the name of their loving white God, enslaved and committed genocide against Africans and African-Americans for centuries.
However, thanks to the War of Northern Aggression, the loving white God's plan for His creation was disturbed, much the way Satan overthrew the original creation and introduced sin and death.
Since that time, white southern Christians have be trying to undo their horrible reverses to their fortunes.
White southern Christians, in the name of their loving white God, enslaved and committed genocide against Africans and African-Americans for centuries.
However, thanks to the War of Northern Aggression, the loving white God's plan for His creation was disturbed, much the way Satan overthrew the original creation and introduced sin and death.
Since that time, white southern Christians have be trying to undo their horrible reverses to their fortunes.
18
It is a curiosity to me how any can state that "folks who rail against the 'all Muslims are terrorists' or ' all blacks are criminals' beliefs are also the ones who emphatically state that 'all southerners are racist' " who are you quoting? How do you quantify your statement? Or are you lumping all non- Souherners together and attributing quotes to them en masse?
20
I note that you hail from West Virginia Mr. Dawson. I'm originally from Ohio and would often travel down Route 33 to Hico WVa to the Upper Gauley to go white water rafting. About 4 or 5 miles after crossing into WVa there was a barn with a painting of the Stars and Bars on its roof. And I always wondered, "does the owner of that barn have any idea how West Virginian came into being?" And then I realized it wasn't about being part of the former CSA it was about racism. He was screaming it out for all the world to hear. Just like those folks in Charlottesville.
4
What a great source of inspiration these magazines are (G&G, SL notwithstanding). I find it harder and harder to claim my Southern heritage these days, especially with what has been happening in our country since last Nov. But these magazines help. Years ago as editor of a regional Gulf Coast magazine called Southern Breeze (RIP) I did my best to create a "safe place" for Southerners of all cultures, races, etc. I even had the first cover with a human on it (and a handsome Creole gentleman at that!), but the most response I ever got from readers was an editor's letter lamenting the Buick-sized Confederate flag along I-10 at the Mississippi/Alabama border. Oh well, baby steps I guess ...
18
154 years after the Emancipation Proclamation and you speak positively about "baby steps"!!! Oh, and about your cover with the "Creole" gentleman on the cover--how white of you.
4
"From the outside, the American South of 2017 may seem stuck in a one-note loop of grim historical disputation..."
I have often wondered why The Times is only able to view the South as a one-note loop when it is not. I suggest it is time to update your understanding. You make a good start with this article. Consider recognizing progressive Southern institutions like The Southern Poverty Law Center and try to look for complexity. You are sure to find it.
I have often wondered why The Times is only able to view the South as a one-note loop when it is not. I suggest it is time to update your understanding. You make a good start with this article. Consider recognizing progressive Southern institutions like The Southern Poverty Law Center and try to look for complexity. You are sure to find it.
92
Hear, hear!
9
Thank you, Madeleine!
This comment certainly deserves to be one of the NYT Picks.
This comment certainly deserves to be one of the NYT Picks.
3
Isn't recognizing that complexity what this article is all about? I was born and lived the first ten years of my life in the deep South (in the 1940s), returning after retirement. While racism was endemic in my childhood, there were always a few people who tried hard not to be racist. What I found when I returned south ten years ago was that the "always" Southerners who were educated lived a life of quiet changes but were hesitant to rock the status quo. The biggest bigots were those who had retired from the North and had little or no daily contact with any minorities other than servants and low income workers. I got tired of observing and listening to the ugly comments and no longer live in the South.
3
The problem is that these are what I call the Faulkner Southerners. It's the South we all want to experience. They are a minority in a world of lifted pickups with the Confederate flag proudly displayed.
61
I am a progressive, gay, Jewish, liberal who moved from New York City to the Deep South 6 years ago for work. I enjoy having my stereotypes dispelled. Just like everywhere else, in the South there is a diversity of attitudes and personalities. Georgia is the birthplace of the modern civil rights movement, the home of Jimmy Carter, and Atlanta – the city too busy to hate (Mayor William Hartsfield, 1960). Yes, some of my in-laws voted for Trump. But they are decent, caring people who happen to be misinformed on that matter. We Yankees need to get out of our bubbles and experience more of the country and its people.
28
Are we really a minority, or does the narrative of the all encompassing blanket of Southern poverty and ignorance just hold too much appeal for the rest of the world to let it go? I don't think we're a minority, but then I also go out of my way to live in 'blue' cities full of people like me.
This is based on....what?
4
"Now I want you to tell me just one thing more. Why do you hate the South."
"I don't hate it" Quentin said, quickly, at once, immediately; I don't hate it," he said. I don't hate it he thought, panting in the cold air, the iron New England dark; I don't. I don't! I don't hate it! I don't hate it!"
William Faulkner
Absalom, Absalom
"I don't hate it" Quentin said, quickly, at once, immediately; I don't hate it," he said. I don't hate it he thought, panting in the cold air, the iron New England dark; I don't. I don't! I don't hate it! I don't hate it!"
William Faulkner
Absalom, Absalom
45