I think it is useful to share points of view, but do not talk politicians, talk positions and priorities. Be able to briefly summarize what is important to you and why, listen respectfully to what other people think and don't try to resolve anything or change any minds in real time. That you got them to listen and maybe think is enough.
While a a calm, reasoned exchange of views sounds wonderful, the chances of it happening if you get involved with talking politics at work are close to zero. More likely you will end up disliking someone you were fine with before, which will make work more difficult for both of you. With an upside unlikely, and the downside potentially painful, why would you do it? This does not include standing up for basic human rights, though, such as speaking up against racist remarks at work, which is generally required of decent human beings.
I went to a talk by a wise imam recently who was asked how to engage family members with radically different opinions on politics. He advised talking about the weather, lol.
I went to a talk by a wise imam recently who was asked how to engage family members with radically different opinions on politics. He advised talking about the weather, lol.
4
I agree, it's not a good idea to discuss personal issues at work with people other than your very good friends. Now if the article had explained how to tactfully keep co-workers from coming to you with their very distracting problems I'd have been more impressed.
1
we spend most of our lives at work and we shouldn't talk politics there?
strange. how about we talk policies? I just wonder if we landed up in the polarized mess we are in because too many of us didn't talk politics / policies. No one said you have to have a fist fight at the water cooler but speaking out about concerns from the left or right might help people understand each other better. After all, these people that you work with are the people you see, day in and day out. People you may like. so maybe if they have a different view than yours you might be inclined to listen to them and they to you.
strange. how about we talk policies? I just wonder if we landed up in the polarized mess we are in because too many of us didn't talk politics / policies. No one said you have to have a fist fight at the water cooler but speaking out about concerns from the left or right might help people understand each other better. After all, these people that you work with are the people you see, day in and day out. People you may like. so maybe if they have a different view than yours you might be inclined to listen to them and they to you.
2
Not all who voted for Donald Trump are Nazis. But so many of them are, and given Trump's inability to condemn them, you just have to go with the dawning conviction (if it hasn't already dawned on you) that the man is a closet Nazi.
You'll notice that in Charlottesville, almost more slogans were anti-semitic than anti anything else.
But we don't worry about Ivanka and her family. When you have friends in high places, you make do. Even Gertrude Stein managed to remain in France during World War II without suffering very much.
As for the rest of the Jews, and gay people, and blacks, and women who use birth control, and everyone who cherishes nature and our National Park system, and our clean water . . . .
You'll notice that in Charlottesville, almost more slogans were anti-semitic than anti anything else.
But we don't worry about Ivanka and her family. When you have friends in high places, you make do. Even Gertrude Stein managed to remain in France during World War II without suffering very much.
As for the rest of the Jews, and gay people, and blacks, and women who use birth control, and everyone who cherishes nature and our National Park system, and our clean water . . . .
4
DUAL DIATRIBE
"Noisy neighbors,
What a pain!"
"Do me a favor,
Don't call again!"
"Noisy neighbors,
What a pain!"
"Do me a favor,
Don't call again!"
“To the extent that we are avoiding these conversations in the workplace, we’re losing out on one of the few venues where we may encounter ideas that are different from our own, and therefore, our own ideas may become stale and less principled.”
I'm not interested in hearing that other people have stone age views of women's rights. At this point, certain principles ought to be beyond debate. Unfortunately, they're not.
One thing that kept nagging me about the Google memo controversy: Might not women (and other underrepresented groups) suffer from more "neuroticism" if their very right to work is being challenged by white men?
I'm not interested in hearing that other people have stone age views of women's rights. At this point, certain principles ought to be beyond debate. Unfortunately, they're not.
One thing that kept nagging me about the Google memo controversy: Might not women (and other underrepresented groups) suffer from more "neuroticism" if their very right to work is being challenged by white men?
4
I am, or have been, a noisy neighbor. I did not engage in stereotypical noisy-nabe activity like blasting the stereo or a musical instrument, but I managed to drive a downstairs neighbor crazy while wearing headphones - by bouncing up and down to the music in my chair.
Yes, I'm weird, keep reading.
He was convinced I was pounding on a set of drums on the floor of my living room. He, apparently a sane, youngish New Yorker, had a lively vision of this happening; he said my living room floor must be covered in congas. Pounding on my ceiling led to my knocking on his door, which led to his pounding on my door, which led to mutual threats to call the police.
Finally after a couple of weeks I woke up and sanity seemed to have dawned. I left a note on his door with my phone number, and asked him to call me anytime my noise bothered him. He responded with a similar note, thanking me and leaving his phone. There were no more notes.
Also, for the remainder of the times I was given to bouncing up and down in time to music, I sat or lay on the living room floor. This did not offend as long as there were no chair legs to transmit the impact.
Yes, I'm weird, keep reading.
He was convinced I was pounding on a set of drums on the floor of my living room. He, apparently a sane, youngish New Yorker, had a lively vision of this happening; he said my living room floor must be covered in congas. Pounding on my ceiling led to my knocking on his door, which led to his pounding on my door, which led to mutual threats to call the police.
Finally after a couple of weeks I woke up and sanity seemed to have dawned. I left a note on his door with my phone number, and asked him to call me anytime my noise bothered him. He responded with a similar note, thanking me and leaving his phone. There were no more notes.
Also, for the remainder of the times I was given to bouncing up and down in time to music, I sat or lay on the living room floor. This did not offend as long as there were no chair legs to transmit the impact.
2
Sharing your reaction/emotions/deep concern about the fact that white supremacists marched openly in Charlottesville, spewing their message of hate empowered by the current administration and too many in his party, resulting in loss of life, injury and fear across swaths of our society is not "talking politics." It is being human. (And that this follows on the heels of a week when talk of possible nuclear war is surreal.) I cannot understand the opinions of those who advise instead to just talk about things that will make the company money (?!?! Are we all part of the capitalist enterprise? And for those who are, are they only robots now?). They must be living in a world that is not threatened as the administration continues its march to marginalized if not remove people of color, women, the LGBTIQ community, Muslims and other non-Christians (preferably keeping only the evangelicals of that tribe too), the undocumented and the disabled.
These are raw and scary times-they are weighing on many of us heavily, and to recommend that office talk be limited to the weather might help explain part of how we got to a place where bro-Nazis march down the streets of a college town and the president doesn't condemn it. We cannot simply ignore it and bury our fears and pain that this is happening.
These are raw and scary times-they are weighing on many of us heavily, and to recommend that office talk be limited to the weather might help explain part of how we got to a place where bro-Nazis march down the streets of a college town and the president doesn't condemn it. We cannot simply ignore it and bury our fears and pain that this is happening.
7
In my experience, it's a remarkable boss (left or right) who, in making office rules, is more concerned with society than his or her own bottom line.
2
People now spend most of their time at work, where they must remember that the people with whom they share their lives are not their friends. Expressing the 'wrong' views puts one at risk of being fired, and loosing everything. We have become serfs, stifling our thoughts and remaining submissive to our corporate lords. No wonder we can't fix our political system. It no longer belongs to us.
3
This is a good guide for talking politics at work. I've so many coworkers who would do well to read this; I might print it and leave it in the lunch room. In truth, I've come to detest one coworker in particular as she does not tolerate differing view points, is quick to shoot down or dismiss an idea different from her own, and speaks her mind with such certainty as if to be the final arbiter of politics or even anything about which one may hold an opinion. The narrow-mindedness is infuriating. It's become such that I refuse to interact with her beyond single syllable words (fortunately, this is possible) as somehow everything comes back to politics or one of her small and unnecessary opinions - I don't need to hear a jeremiad on Pres. Obama or a monologue on global warming when remarking upon the weather. I don't care if her ideas differ from mine (they sometimes align) but the manner in which she speaks is quite offensive. By now, I think I've talked myself into plastering her cubicle with this guide. Thank you for making this the subject of "New York Today" today.
5
Politics is a big NO at work. Even discussing that with coworkers at after hours get together is a bad idea(unless you know they share ur views or are really close friends)
5
We U.S. citizens have recently confronted the inanity of Trump vs. Kim, quickly followed by President Trump's initial ill-focused response to the sequence of horrors in Charlottesville.
Thomas Jefferson's words immediately came to mind when I first heard of the horrendous sequence of events in Charlottesville:
"[T]he people can not be all, & always, well informed. [The] part which is wrong . . . will be discontented in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. [If we] remain quiet under such misconceptions it is a lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public."
Jefferson implies that true patriots are those who can recognize lies, manipulation and misinformation for what they actually are. True patriots recognize and oppose tyranny whenever and however it reveals itself. They oppose both the rise of a would-be dictator and the mass tyranny inherent to the unreflective emotion and blind willfulness of the mob.
Jefferson was a man of the Enlightenment. Are those committed to the intellectual values of the Enlightenment hopelessly misguided? Should we give up the belief that humans, through education and through responsible dialogue and debate, can come to acknowledge that they themselves or others are uninformed, misinformed or illogical--and then take appropriate action?
Thomas Jefferson's words immediately came to mind when I first heard of the horrendous sequence of events in Charlottesville:
"[T]he people can not be all, & always, well informed. [The] part which is wrong . . . will be discontented in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. [If we] remain quiet under such misconceptions it is a lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public."
Jefferson implies that true patriots are those who can recognize lies, manipulation and misinformation for what they actually are. True patriots recognize and oppose tyranny whenever and however it reveals itself. They oppose both the rise of a would-be dictator and the mass tyranny inherent to the unreflective emotion and blind willfulness of the mob.
Jefferson was a man of the Enlightenment. Are those committed to the intellectual values of the Enlightenment hopelessly misguided? Should we give up the belief that humans, through education and through responsible dialogue and debate, can come to acknowledge that they themselves or others are uninformed, misinformed or illogical--and then take appropriate action?
3
My brother pretty much talks politics. He won't talk about anything else such as sports because he doesn't follow it. Just about every time I see him, he will say something from his side of the political spectrum, which happens to be conservative, while I happen to be a liberal. There are even times, when he does ramble about news he finds either on his Youtube subscriptions or his right wing websites. Also, he is very much a news buff by watching the news several times a day as if they say the same things all the time. It's not that I'm against talking politics, I just don't like talking politics all the time like he does. The only problem is that that I have a family that isn't interested in anything else.
1
I have talked with, basically listened to, to be more accurate, Trump supporters. I have engaged some who do not appear to be hotheads. I offer my opinion, which countermands their arguments for supporting someone whom I consider the worse president ever. But, in the end, I have no illusions to persuade. No matter what case Trumpists make for casting their vote for this incompetent, I have yet to meet one, I repeat one, who has presented a logical premise for their vote.
How am I able, so far, to converse with Trumpists and come away unscathed? Probably for the same reason I, an old codger in his late Seventies, has been able to do so since the Sixties. I offer my opinion, always stating I speak just for me. Most importantly, at no time do I ever assume the purpose of our intercourse will result in minds being changed. I'm pretty sure, in hindsight, it has some effect, but that never is my attention.
In the case of someone so odious a creature as Trump, someone, as a native New Yorker, I have been familiar with for decades. I am aware of his dubious business deals he's been involved with his entire career. I realize many who voted Trump will not be swayed, ever, to see that Trump has no moral compass, empathy and concern for others. Trump cares for no one except himself. I believe Trumpists use him as a cudgel against people like me, a lifelong Liberal, because they are so filled with anger they will stick with Trump to the bitter end. And it will be bitter
DD
Manhattan
How am I able, so far, to converse with Trumpists and come away unscathed? Probably for the same reason I, an old codger in his late Seventies, has been able to do so since the Sixties. I offer my opinion, always stating I speak just for me. Most importantly, at no time do I ever assume the purpose of our intercourse will result in minds being changed. I'm pretty sure, in hindsight, it has some effect, but that never is my attention.
In the case of someone so odious a creature as Trump, someone, as a native New Yorker, I have been familiar with for decades. I am aware of his dubious business deals he's been involved with his entire career. I realize many who voted Trump will not be swayed, ever, to see that Trump has no moral compass, empathy and concern for others. Trump cares for no one except himself. I believe Trumpists use him as a cudgel against people like me, a lifelong Liberal, because they are so filled with anger they will stick with Trump to the bitter end. And it will be bitter
DD
Manhattan
12
noisy neighbors are difficult because they'll be living there for awhile & you'll be interacting with them again. hammering, swearing & loud arguments will pass, but LOUD music? never. i ring the doorbell on the recalcitrant party's door & smile, then politely inform them that the building's soundproofing isn't as good as it might otherwise be. therefore, if it's not too much of an imposition, would you please turn your music down. generally, they'll apologize & comply, though sometimes i'll have to return, particularly if it's 2:00 a.m. or thereabouts.
4
You have a moral obligation to fight racism and bigotry wherever it manifests itself, in the home, the streets or the office.
9
I have a rule: Three things you never discuss at work-- politics, religion, and salary.
1
Rebecca, the professor, is right regarding political issue discussions at work! Nyet!! Name , rank and serial number only.
4
agreed. And by the way, asking 3 professors about this is ridiculous. They know nothing about the real world workplaces in which we live.
2
"[Professors] know nothing about the real-world workplaces in which we live."
Yes, they probably do, since they too must contend with people who do not respect them (both administrators and students) and toe the party line in order to keep their jobs. That means letting eighteen-year-olds evaluate them, making nice in regard to "trigger warnings," and controlling their tempers at condescending "facilitators" who are called in to run faculty meetings.
By the by, your blanket condemnation of "professors" smacks of the same anti-intellectualism, anti-education, anti-expert cant that makes the United States lag behind other countries. Do we care about our air quality? rising seas? melting icecaps? the ability of lead of interfere with a child's development?
Americans think that their ability to shoot a gun and their tenth-grade education qualifies them as experts on everything.
More of them believe in ghosts than in the law of gravity.
Yes, they probably do, since they too must contend with people who do not respect them (both administrators and students) and toe the party line in order to keep their jobs. That means letting eighteen-year-olds evaluate them, making nice in regard to "trigger warnings," and controlling their tempers at condescending "facilitators" who are called in to run faculty meetings.
By the by, your blanket condemnation of "professors" smacks of the same anti-intellectualism, anti-education, anti-expert cant that makes the United States lag behind other countries. Do we care about our air quality? rising seas? melting icecaps? the ability of lead of interfere with a child's development?
Americans think that their ability to shoot a gun and their tenth-grade education qualifies them as experts on everything.
More of them believe in ghosts than in the law of gravity.
1
"Rebecca Merkin, a professor at Baruch College who teaches communication strategies for the workplace, said to leave your political opinion at the door.
“It’s inappropriate because it leads to conflict,” she said. “And if there’s conflict, you can’t function. And if you can’t function, you don’t make money."
Well isn't that quite the inferential leap...I guess the only companies making money out there are those who are totally "conflict free?" Maybe people at work could start giving "trigger warnings" before discussing anything that might create conflict like they now have to do on many college campuses?
“It’s inappropriate because it leads to conflict,” she said. “And if there’s conflict, you can’t function. And if you can’t function, you don’t make money."
Well isn't that quite the inferential leap...I guess the only companies making money out there are those who are totally "conflict free?" Maybe people at work could start giving "trigger warnings" before discussing anything that might create conflict like they now have to do on many college campuses?
9
I read it as, when you can't function at work due to the conflict, you quit or get fired, hence you do not make make money. That's true
3
In the "politics" piece, one of the experts says, "In what terrain of your life..." What is this 'terrain" business? I don't have "terrains" in my life. "Terrain" has to do with land surface, not lives. I can't believe the jargon and misuse of language these days.
8
“It’s inappropriate because it leads to conflict,” she said. “And if there’s conflict, you can’t function. And if you can’t function, you don’t make money.”
And -- of course -- after that, nothing else really matters - and, in fact - based upon that reasoning - people at work should confine their verbal communication to nothing but the tasks at hand - because any other subject could cause "conflict" -- such as tonight's "Subway Series" game between the Mets and Yankees --
"If you do decide to discuss politics at your job, here are some tips:
• Don’t assume every co-worker will agree with your opinions."
Or the opposite - which is worse -
In a small group at the office, somebody makes a disparaging remark about Trump and everyone laughs and nods in agreement -- except for he one person who may still be holding out hope that Trump will figure it out and turn things around -- and obviously cannot express their opinion for fear of being ostracized by their co-workers --
I've adopted a tactic to circumvent this --
Whenever someone starts in on a political diatribe -- no matter if its from the right or left -- I reply with something like -- "How about those Yankees?" -- or -- "Have you ridden on the new Second Avenue Subway line yet?" -
Actually -- going back to that prime directive about making money -- this is the perfect time to remember that time-honored adage --
"Talk is cheap" --
And no talk is cheaper than a political argument...
And -- of course -- after that, nothing else really matters - and, in fact - based upon that reasoning - people at work should confine their verbal communication to nothing but the tasks at hand - because any other subject could cause "conflict" -- such as tonight's "Subway Series" game between the Mets and Yankees --
"If you do decide to discuss politics at your job, here are some tips:
• Don’t assume every co-worker will agree with your opinions."
Or the opposite - which is worse -
In a small group at the office, somebody makes a disparaging remark about Trump and everyone laughs and nods in agreement -- except for he one person who may still be holding out hope that Trump will figure it out and turn things around -- and obviously cannot express their opinion for fear of being ostracized by their co-workers --
I've adopted a tactic to circumvent this --
Whenever someone starts in on a political diatribe -- no matter if its from the right or left -- I reply with something like -- "How about those Yankees?" -- or -- "Have you ridden on the new Second Avenue Subway line yet?" -
Actually -- going back to that prime directive about making money -- this is the perfect time to remember that time-honored adage --
"Talk is cheap" --
And no talk is cheaper than a political argument...
1
A friendly word of advice to anyone listening. DON'T talk politics at work. Especially now with Mercury, planet of communications in retrograde.
Talk about the weather instead....
Talk about the weather instead....
5
What a coincidence! Earth is in retrograde too!
5
I would talk politics with others, but not partisan politics. Some polices are economically workable, some aren't except in an imaginary world. I was at Stanford for the Nixon McGovern election. Since everyone around me was a McGovernite I played Devil's Advocate. It was dismaying to find that no one could put their finger on what Nixon had done to make them hate him (before Watergate). I voted Labour in England, so was hardly a rabid Republican.
I wouldn't expect much different now, but the atmosphere is such that it would be dangerous to try. People get sacked for disrupting the workplace. You don't want to make bitter unforgiving enemies whichever side you are on. Sometimes you can't help it, and you don't do anything except exist: I was told I had no future in one NY company because it was an Irish company, and I'm not Irish. . .
I wouldn't expect much different now, but the atmosphere is such that it would be dangerous to try. People get sacked for disrupting the workplace. You don't want to make bitter unforgiving enemies whichever side you are on. Sometimes you can't help it, and you don't do anything except exist: I was told I had no future in one NY company because it was an Irish company, and I'm not Irish. . .
4
In addition to noise, any advice on smoky neighbor syndrome? I'm talking barbecue, cigars, other substances that probably aren't legal...it's gotten to the point that I have to close my windows almost every day.
2
A siren? If wanted to get fancy you could easily cobble together a smoke detector/alarm combo, and maybe include a recorded announcement (be sure device is protected against incursions) .
Do not answer door when device has been recently activated.
Do not answer door when device has been recently activated.
3
Seriously, the opinions offered in this article pale in comparison to the actions that are being displayed. IF the discussion was about spray tan vs ultra violet light causing cancer, perhaps. But it is not. Nazis in our society are wrong and more wrong. Our opinion cannot be tamed without denigrating the sacrifice that millions gave to free Europe from what is a well documented sad and sick time of history. It should NEVER be shuffled under the rug to " make money ". Now we have another death to add to a sickness in our society . It is wrong to accept neo nazi behaviour anytime, anyplace.
27
If one don't talk about what happened in Charlottesville it just becomes another news story we will soon forget. People ARE thinking about it - to not give voice to what happens in our world is to put one's head in the sand. I cannot imagine not talking about this sad, terrible event.
16
The rules anywhere I’ve been or seen seem to be keep politics out of the office conversation, except for how the President affects business and taxes. But I assume kvetching about the street traffic around the office because of the President’s visit would be fair game.
Tune of "One's On The Way"
The talk around our home can get real raucous and real loud
We love to speak our minds here and we love to speak it proud
The weekend, we all worry for the good old U.S.A.
But here in the workplace, the talk is all sunny
We concentrate on making our boss lots of money
The Prez’s name comes up ‘cause the traffic is all funny, ‘cause
Trump's on the way
I'm glad that on the weekend, I can offer my two cents
‘Cause holding it all in too long can make me feel real tense
But now for these 8 hours, we must hold it in all day
‘Cause here in the workplace, the “rules” are emphatic
That no one’s G.O.P. here and no one’s Democratic
Except for pointing out that the traffic is erratic, ‘cause
Trump's on the way
Tune of "One's On The Way"
The talk around our home can get real raucous and real loud
We love to speak our minds here and we love to speak it proud
The weekend, we all worry for the good old U.S.A.
But here in the workplace, the talk is all sunny
We concentrate on making our boss lots of money
The Prez’s name comes up ‘cause the traffic is all funny, ‘cause
Trump's on the way
I'm glad that on the weekend, I can offer my two cents
‘Cause holding it all in too long can make me feel real tense
But now for these 8 hours, we must hold it in all day
‘Cause here in the workplace, the “rules” are emphatic
That no one’s G.O.P. here and no one’s Democratic
Except for pointing out that the traffic is erratic, ‘cause
Trump's on the way
13
I guess talking about the traffic is a roundabout way to talk about politics, but my question is when does the political discussion need to become a discussion about values? I'm pretty sure I couldn't get through all of today without talking about the events in and implications of Charlottesville. I'm a retired teacher. There's absolutely no way I could have walked into school without preparing to discuss the weekend's effect on my students. They would have wanted to talk. Their teachers would have wanted to listen and even mediate. However, maybe the world of classrooms isn't the real world of cubicles and water coolers. In the real world, are there adults in the room?
20
agreed. I teach in college classrooms, so indeed I would walk in prepared to discuss. I think office water coolers are the classrooms in the adult world. it is the culture [think Google memo debacle] it would be better if employers engaged with employees, teach listening skills, and talk across differences. and to those in corporate world who think not, how will you sell the product in a global market, if you can't help employees talk WITH each other
3