The problem is that the real estate of highest value is precisely where the jobs are. Rich people with their children in the same neighborhoods as the drivers of the economy. This is the challenge of NYC.
1
All these tax schemes, always taking the easy way out instead of actually admitting what the problem is and dealing with it. The issue isn't whether there is enough tax revenue, it is how the MTA spends its money...which means looking at costs--mostly at the adminstrative burden along with wages and especially benefits. I promise you that raising taxes will just push the same problem down the tracks a few years, and then it just comes right back. Unless you find a way to cut costs no amount of taxpayer fleecing will do any long term good.
3
The MTA has a five year capital budget of, as the article mentioned, $32.5 BILLION, or $6.5 BILLION EVERY SINGLE YEAR. It is not like there is zero money being spent. But the LIRR East Side Access project is already $7 billion over budget, and 13 years behind schedule...so far.
Throwing money at the problems doesn't help until the MTA transforms itself into a responsible steward of the public fisc. Right now, that is not the case.
Throwing money at the problems doesn't help until the MTA transforms itself into a responsible steward of the public fisc. Right now, that is not the case.
5
All this talk of congestion pricing ignores the reason for the congestion in the first place...rampant development, particularly in the outer boroughs, without any thought as to how the new residents would commute. What does our department of city planning do? Will the city curb residential development while the transit system crumbles? or start doing commercial development in the outer boroughs instead of just residential? Or start requiring that outer borough developers pay into a transit fund of some sort when they build in the areas? Without some attention to this, we are just rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.
3
For many New Yorkers who immigrated here from other places, car ownership is one of those inalienable rights, like free speech. That car which clogs the side streets looking for parking, or when double parked blocks the bus and bike lanes is often one of, if not actually the most important thing in their lives. A NYC resident car tax with access to low cost outer borough parking would do wonders to clear up congestion. But the car owning minority in the City would howl.
Congestion pricing should be considered however there are three fundamental issues.
1. This is loosely based on London's successful congestion zone, however it works because all the suburbs around London's congestion zone require resident permits to park there. Without the same in NY, places like Williamsburg, West Bronx, and LI City will be inundated with commuters using their streets as a parking lot.
2. The money raised and the subsequent infrastructure improvements would lag years behind the extra demand created by congestion charging in the first place. NYC needs huge investment in commuter solutions NOW, TODAY - not ten years from now.
3. The MTA are one of the most backward, inefficient government bodies in existence and shouldn't be trusted with a dime.
1. This is loosely based on London's successful congestion zone, however it works because all the suburbs around London's congestion zone require resident permits to park there. Without the same in NY, places like Williamsburg, West Bronx, and LI City will be inundated with commuters using their streets as a parking lot.
2. The money raised and the subsequent infrastructure improvements would lag years behind the extra demand created by congestion charging in the first place. NYC needs huge investment in commuter solutions NOW, TODAY - not ten years from now.
3. The MTA are one of the most backward, inefficient government bodies in existence and shouldn't be trusted with a dime.
3
Congestion pricing will not do what it's intended to do -- if anything, it will only increase congestion, what with the slowdown incurred while vehicles halt to either pay the toll or have it processed by EZ-Pass.
The only way it'd actually decrease congestion is if the toll were so cost-prohibitive as to really impact those who have to get through. Say, $100, or some amount that is not nearly as easily swallowed. Then, cars and truck and buses would be dissuaded from traveling.
Otherwise, there is no point to this. You want to ease congestion, here's an idea -- dump those silly pedestrian plazas, clean up the construction projects that choke the streets, and eliminate the bike lanes.
The only way it'd actually decrease congestion is if the toll were so cost-prohibitive as to really impact those who have to get through. Say, $100, or some amount that is not nearly as easily swallowed. Then, cars and truck and buses would be dissuaded from traveling.
Otherwise, there is no point to this. You want to ease congestion, here's an idea -- dump those silly pedestrian plazas, clean up the construction projects that choke the streets, and eliminate the bike lanes.
2
No, the current EZ Pass reader technology allows passage without slowing down at all. The problem is with people who don't have EZ Pass. The state blithely tells us that they send bills in the mail to the registered owner of the vehicle. It happily ignores the burgeoning cottage industry of making license plates hard to photograph. A year or two ago, a Joisey business owner was found to have had his trucks evade over $100,000 in tolls. And what of all those Virginia, Georgia and Florida plates sported by actual Noo Yawkers? Will those states cooperate with databases, as Joisey and Connecticut do? Don't hold your breath.
1
Note Andrew Cuomo:
Please tell your demographers and pollsters as you plot your political future:
I am a white, middle-aged, female voter, active Democrat, long time resident of NYC and I would NEVER cast another vote for you for ANYTHING. Witnessing the Trump debacle, it is easy now to see the craven and manipulative politicians for what they really are. Epic fail.
Please tell your demographers and pollsters as you plot your political future:
I am a white, middle-aged, female voter, active Democrat, long time resident of NYC and I would NEVER cast another vote for you for ANYTHING. Witnessing the Trump debacle, it is easy now to see the craven and manipulative politicians for what they really are. Epic fail.
2
One more tax for the middle classes. This will certainly make life for the 1% much easier. Less traffic and fewer of those pesky commuters. For the 1% who can afford to live in Manhattan these tolls will not make any difference, but for poor middle classes that may need a car for work or commute from areas short on public transportation this will be another step towards poverty. How about taxing the rich? How about progressive tax on the Multi-million dollar apartments used as tax shelters? Guess what, with this new tax there will be less people attending theaters, less people going out to restaurants, clubs, etc. Thanks a lot, Governor for supporting the bridge and tunnel residents.
3
There are many people who are not in the 1% living in Manhattan, and because living in Manhattan has always been more expensive than living in the outer boroughs, many of these people have made do with less living space than they would have elsewhere and without cars. If some people want more space and cars and don't want to settle for the smaller spaces they would have in Manhattan and live without cars, fine, but keep the cars outside Manhattan. You can't have it both ways.
Really? Charging NYC residents a toll to come into the city? Foolish. Place the tolls at the Queens/Brooklyn -Nassau County line and at the Bronx - Westchester Line (drivers coming from Jersey already pay up via the PATH). And while they're at it, re-enact the token "commuter tax" (great name-eh?) to have non-NYC residents help defray the cost of Emergency Services and transit costs.
Those who use the subways the most should pay the increase, and those people all buy monthly subway passes which is where the price increases should be.
Additionally, New York City residents should pay increased NYC Income taxes, but only those earning over $30k per year.
Additionally, NYS Income taxes should be increased state-wide, by .5% for those earning over $30k per year.
Additionally, NYS Income taxes should be based on all earnings, not just wages.
All those tax increases should be used to pay for NYC subways.
Additionally, New York City residents should pay increased NYC Income taxes, but only those earning over $30k per year.
Additionally, NYS Income taxes should be increased state-wide, by .5% for those earning over $30k per year.
Additionally, NYS Income taxes should be based on all earnings, not just wages.
All those tax increases should be used to pay for NYC subways.
1
over 30K? shouldn't it be higher?
Why is the remedy to always raise taxes instead of seeking alternative sources or means to defray any cost increases?
I rarely ageee with Cuomo but I must admit his recent proposal to replace all bridge lights to LEDs is a step in the right and correct direction to not only save taxpayers money in the long term but this will reduce the amount of contributing CO2 emissions due to the energy savings.
I rarely ageee with Cuomo but I must admit his recent proposal to replace all bridge lights to LEDs is a step in the right and correct direction to not only save taxpayers money in the long term but this will reduce the amount of contributing CO2 emissions due to the energy savings.
New York State Income tax already taxes interest and dividends, not just salary.
How about taxing public pensions over $100K? The retired superintendent of my elementary district, which has fewer than 2000 students in two schools, has a pension of over $250,000 per year, and the state doesn't get a dime in taxes on it, though the Feds do. He can pay the tax on it...
How about taxing public pensions over $100K? The retired superintendent of my elementary district, which has fewer than 2000 students in two schools, has a pension of over $250,000 per year, and the state doesn't get a dime in taxes on it, though the Feds do. He can pay the tax on it...
2
This will lead to huge lines at the toll areas.
How about getting rid of private car traffic from Manhattan altogether?
How about getting rid of private car traffic from Manhattan altogether?
1
There would not be any toll booths. Ez-pass or license plate pictures.
Technology is already implemented on the existing tolled bridges/tunnels.
Technology is already implemented on the existing tolled bridges/tunnels.
3
Where did all the money for the upkeep of the subway system go? Has NY not put away money to maintain such a vital piece of infrastructure?
1
The money went to the MTA Unions benefits/pensions.
3
You know the answer to that - NOT REALLY.
1
the subway isn't a mess because it's underfunded. the subway is a mess because of the TWU. drivers should not have yet another tax on top of the constant unreasonable photo ticketing and timed red light traps that are draining money from working people in this city.
also, many cars would not be on the road if our mass transit wasn't like a 3rd world system. it's a disgrace. many of us are forced to drive if we want to support our family and keep the lights on.
fellow progressives- unions don't always represent the working man. sometimes they hurt the working man much more than a capitalist oligarch could. don't reflexively associate unions with the working class; it outs you as a book smart liberal who never really worked a day in your life.
dissolve the TWU and start over!
also, many cars would not be on the road if our mass transit wasn't like a 3rd world system. it's a disgrace. many of us are forced to drive if we want to support our family and keep the lights on.
fellow progressives- unions don't always represent the working man. sometimes they hurt the working man much more than a capitalist oligarch could. don't reflexively associate unions with the working class; it outs you as a book smart liberal who never really worked a day in your life.
dissolve the TWU and start over!
7
Bob,
Stop speeding = no speeding camera tickets
Stop running red lights = no red light camera tickets
Don't drive in Manhattan = no congestion fee (after congestion pricing is implemented)
This is not rocket science
Stop speeding = no speeding camera tickets
Stop running red lights = no red light camera tickets
Don't drive in Manhattan = no congestion fee (after congestion pricing is implemented)
This is not rocket science
7
Bob, the real waste in the MTA is in its bloated capital budget. As the article states, $32.5 BILLION for its five year plan, or $6.5 billion, every year. LIRR East Side Access is already $7 billion over budget and 13 years late, with tunneling under some of the most expensive real estate in the world yet to happen (63 St from 2d Av to Park Av., and Park Ave from 63 St.-42 St.)
$7 billion pays for a whole army of transit workers...
$7 billion pays for a whole army of transit workers...
The biggest congestion problem in the city is the outgoing traffic of the toll free Holland Tunnel. This traffic of mostly single driver occupancy that snarls the BQE, Williamsburg Bridge, LES, Soho, West Village, Tribeca and the West Side Highway is an ideal place for revenue. Why isn't there a toll for outgoing traffic?
3
Because the tolls for incoming traffic were doubled. In other words, there WAS a toll for outgoing traffic but to speed up out going traffic the PA dropped the out going tolls but doubled the incoming tolls. If outgoing tolls are brought back, the incoming tolls must be cut in half to make up for it. Of course this will make outgoing traffic slow down even more.
Bloomberg: A leader who is ahead of the times instead of one dragged kicking and screaming into the present.
3
I wish Rahm Emanuel would pay a similar level of attention to traffic problems in Chicago. It's getting ridiculous to be driving a car in and out of the city --- on I-90, from 7am to 8pm, every hour is like rush hour. It wasn't like this five years ago.
So now that for self-preservation we can't use the subways, Cuomo wants us to pay to use autos for driving into Manhattan. Sorry, but those of us living in the 'outer' boros shouldn't have to foot more of the the bill to fix them than we already do.
What about a tax on those living outside NYC who work here, use our infrastructure, but pay nothing more than than their daily subway fare?
It's expensive enough to live in NYC without the governor trying to offload his responsibility on our backs!
What about a tax on those living outside NYC who work here, use our infrastructure, but pay nothing more than than their daily subway fare?
It's expensive enough to live in NYC without the governor trying to offload his responsibility on our backs!
3
If you live in the outer boros and don't travel into Manhattan, you wont have to pay a dime.
1
It is only logical to apply congestion pricing to mass transit as well. Over chronic crowding on the subways is inexcusable with proper management.
Subway fares need to be higher at peak times. The resistance to such a common sense idea is inherent in all government programs. Riders think they are Entitled to subsidized fares simply because of past practices.
The original rationale of subsidized fares was to increase ridership so as to better utilize the enormous capital costs of a subway system. lower fares could b e justified by increased ridership even when total revenues declined as a result. But once the system becomes so congested that the actual capacity is shrunk by the many delays that occur from the difficulty in loading and unloading overcrowded trains so that as many as 1/3 of trains are cancelled at peak times (as reported by the new York Times) it is simply insane to persist with artificially low fares at peak times.
Technology makes this fare adjust very easy with the automation in the fares collection process and the use of fare cards.
With an incentives from higher peak fares, those riders who can will shift there travel times to save money and reduce congestion. meanwhile the increased revenues can finance improvements in service
Subway fares need to be higher at peak times. The resistance to such a common sense idea is inherent in all government programs. Riders think they are Entitled to subsidized fares simply because of past practices.
The original rationale of subsidized fares was to increase ridership so as to better utilize the enormous capital costs of a subway system. lower fares could b e justified by increased ridership even when total revenues declined as a result. But once the system becomes so congested that the actual capacity is shrunk by the many delays that occur from the difficulty in loading and unloading overcrowded trains so that as many as 1/3 of trains are cancelled at peak times (as reported by the new York Times) it is simply insane to persist with artificially low fares at peak times.
Technology makes this fare adjust very easy with the automation in the fares collection process and the use of fare cards.
With an incentives from higher peak fares, those riders who can will shift there travel times to save money and reduce congestion. meanwhile the increased revenues can finance improvements in service
5
I really think that discouraging commuters from taking mass transit through higher fares will only force more cars into the most congested parts of the city. Not the best idea.
Bloomberg was ahead of his time and should have been listened to nine years ago. This project was successful from the start in London (which he visited to learn more), where the original cost in February 2003 was 5 GBP. By the end of the first day the fee had been collected for 57,000 vehicles. After a couple of bumps in price "congestion charge" is now 11.50 GBP per day (about $15 USD), reduced to 10.50 GBP through a signup program(me) in which the money is deducted automatically.
https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/congestion-charge
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-21451245
https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/congestion-charge
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-21451245
3
Instead of backing a tiny .5% tax on the wealthiest 1% of New Yorkers like Mayor De Blasio proposes- Gov Cuomo wants to CHARGE THE PEOPLE. Not a good plan, not good for average New Yorkers. Please support the millionaires tax and Fair Fares!
5
Makes sense. And while we are at it, raise the fare to a reasonable market level. Bear in mind that the Zone One fare in London is GBP 4.80. In this way, everyone has skin in the game and in outcome.
2
I believe central London has a similar program. Can we check it out before we implement or fight over it ?
2
Yes, London has a similar program
Net summary - it worked exceedingly well.
Results:
-30% reduction in congestion delays
-Travel fatalities and serious injuries at record lows
-The London Underground runs 5% more train miles and rider delays are down by one-third
-50 year high in bus usage
Net summary - it worked exceedingly well.
Results:
-30% reduction in congestion delays
-Travel fatalities and serious injuries at record lows
-The London Underground runs 5% more train miles and rider delays are down by one-third
-50 year high in bus usage
3
And, in my experience, riding a bus a breeze because they actually move, unlike those in NYC.
2
Again the outer boroughs are being punished.
Car and car ownership is needed in northeast Queens.
Look at a Subway map and wow the 7 train's last stop, is what 20 miles or more from the border with Nassau.
Andy your a failure ......man up and come up with money.
Car and car ownership is needed in northeast Queens.
Look at a Subway map and wow the 7 train's last stop, is what 20 miles or more from the border with Nassau.
Andy your a failure ......man up and come up with money.
3
Stop throwing money at MTA. They need to go to a rehab.
7
This solves nothing.
2
Let's face it New York is not a Car Town.Subways and buses shut down the Majority of workers can not get int Manhattan. Something has to be done. The subways are under decades of neglect. Congestion Pricing would have a two fold effect. One raise revenue and two less car in Manhattan. Yes some will be hurt, but no mater what plan the City and State come up with there will be those that will be hurt. Unlike other places in the world the New York City Subway system is the Life Blood of the City.
1
There's a three. Many argue that this will lead to less congestion in Manhattan. It would also lead to less congestion in the surrounding boroughs which is far more important than anything happening in Manhattan. All the cars that make the daily trip from Brooklyn to Manhattan are the problem. The congestion stems outward. Uber should get NO discount on new tolls - they have contributed to the problem just as much as an outdated subway system.
1
If the politicians had any foresight they would be banning cars from Manhattan.
7
I think (actually, dream) about that every time I try to make my way around midtown Manhattan on foot.
2
On foot is the only way to get around reliably/efficiently!
The the huge influx of Uber Lyft Via vehicles roaming and clogging the streets of NYC would not be reduced by this. Until they are controlled the people who need cars in Manhattan will be punished. Not fair.
4
I heard on the radio this morning (WQXR) that De Blasio opposes Cuomo's proposal to replace existing lights on the bridges to LEDs .
This is a no brained for the financial and environmental savings but the Mayor opposes!
So much for the environment unlike the rhetoric he proclaims .
This is a no brained for the financial and environmental savings but the Mayor opposes!
So much for the environment unlike the rhetoric he proclaims .
2
Is it any wonder that the Times, as handmaiden of the NYC real estate cabal and from whom they derive substantial income, is promoting Cuomo's plan over De Blasio's? After all, we can't expect these wealthy wunderkinden to pay for Carrara marble bathtubs AND a working subway system.
3
That is a poor idea, Mr., Cuomo.,
You politicians are always conspiring to snatch money prom citizens' wallets.
You politicians are always conspiring to snatch money prom citizens' wallets.
4
This is, in fact, a step in the right direction, but we need desperately to embrace the commuter tax. It was a travesty that the commuter tax was eliminated in the 1st place. Certainly people who commute into the city from other municipalities and states need police, fire, and other services while they are here working. Shouldn't they contribute too?
And I am 100% for additional taxes and fees on ultra luxury development. It is 100% fair because so often those who own these properties do not pay NYC income tax.
Let's not forget Cuomo secured property tax relief for a tower that casts an enormous shadow across Central Park for two $100,000 donations. (ONE57) I know he needs his PAC money to support his re-election bid, but I think we need to see contributions to our infrastructure (tax base) from development projects, especially if they rob the central feature (sunlight) from our precious and finite public parks.
And I am 100% for additional taxes and fees on ultra luxury development. It is 100% fair because so often those who own these properties do not pay NYC income tax.
Let's not forget Cuomo secured property tax relief for a tower that casts an enormous shadow across Central Park for two $100,000 donations. (ONE57) I know he needs his PAC money to support his re-election bid, but I think we need to see contributions to our infrastructure (tax base) from development projects, especially if they rob the central feature (sunlight) from our precious and finite public parks.
6
Good old trickle down taxation. Give corporations and employers tax breaks and charge the little people - with commuter taxes - to pay for them.
For heaven's sake - TAX THE WEALTHIEST and CORPORATIONS TO PAY FOR IT.
They are so bloated with money they couldn't spend it in 100 lifetimes. Use estate and inheritance taxes to claw back the stolen wealth and prevent more inherited wealth never-worked-a-day-in-their-lives robbers like The Con Don and his criminal, tax-evading brethren.
For heaven's sake - TAX THE WEALTHIEST and CORPORATIONS TO PAY FOR IT.
They are so bloated with money they couldn't spend it in 100 lifetimes. Use estate and inheritance taxes to claw back the stolen wealth and prevent more inherited wealth never-worked-a-day-in-their-lives robbers like The Con Don and his criminal, tax-evading brethren.
5
So tell me, what is the maximum amount of money people should have?
1
Politicians face their constituents who want more and better services and dream of sources of revenue from individuals who can't vote them out of office. Congestion pricing may raise money from some of those people but don't insult our intelligence by saying it will reduce congestion and pollution. Stand on Sixth Avenue and take an inventory of the vehicles going by. The vast majority are taxis, black cars and trucks many of whom cruise the city 24 hours a day and are populated or owned by the wealth not the working class commuter. As often happens the small guy gets it from both sides: an overwhelmed MTA and a tax just to get to work. Do a real study and see who would end up paying the bulk of the money.
4
Well, the devil is in the details. It will raise some money, no doubt, so there is a plus there, but it won't reduce congestion. Congestion has increased in Manhattan even though there are 45,000 fewer vehicles entering Manhattan per day than in 2010. Same in London, fewer cars but more traffic. But there are problems that I'd like to see addressed in the details: why charge people for leaving the congestion zone? Isn't getting them out of the area the whole idea? If 60th street is going to be the cutoff, what is this going to do to traffic and parking in the very residential areas north of there? The last plans exempted a lot of vehicles: cabs, car services, city vehicles and delivery trucks. Conduct a test yourself: next time you are in midtown and see a traffic jam, count how many personal vehicles are involved. Honestly, not that many. And now we get to the real sticking point - the elephant in the room: class. California charged a surcharge for cars to drive in certain lanes of the highway. It became known as the Lexus lane; the poor working class guy was stuck on the thruway while the rich guy just paid the $5 and went merrily on his way! Same thing will happen here; when you count the number of private cars in the experiment above, how many are beat up clinkers? The point is the ppl in the Range Rovers will gladly pay (and easily afford) the $5 for the privilege of driving thru a, hopefully, less congested midtown. The working stiff from Glendale...
5
The "working stiff from Glendale" is on the subway/bus
1
Congestion pricing is touted as a way to reduce traffic, however, many of those people driving into lower Manhattan from outer boroughs do so because they are making deliveries, transporting tools, or like myself are using car services because I am disabled and can't get access to an overcrowded subway system with a handful of working elevators. It doesn't fit the happy model that marketers like to visualize. We don't have a choice to get on a Citi bike and ride in.
Shouldn't funds to repair and maintain regional transit be borne equally by all who use and benefit from it? Why hasn't there been a surcharge on all the new construction and condominiums going up all over the city? As noted in other comments, shouldn't there be a little more transparency about where that $36 billion goes - like the monument to Calatrava's ego downtown?
Shouldn't funds to repair and maintain regional transit be borne equally by all who use and benefit from it? Why hasn't there been a surcharge on all the new construction and condominiums going up all over the city? As noted in other comments, shouldn't there be a little more transparency about where that $36 billion goes - like the monument to Calatrava's ego downtown?
7
I live quite near the entrance/exit of the 59th Street Bridge - the only existing means of entering or departing NYC without a toll. There are many middle-aged and elderly people who live in my building and neighborhood and crossing the street is very dangerous for us. There have been many accidents (vehicular and pedestrian) in that area. I have seen more blood and bodies (and one brain) due to the rush to get onto the bridge with no consideration for life or limb. The crossing signs should read "Don't Walk" and "Run for your Life." Cars will drive through red lights and into oncoming traffic lanes to get onto the bridge. The backup of traffic at all hours, seven days a week is intense as well as the horns - honked out of mere frustration by drivers. The traffic police don't seem to know what keeping the intersection and crosswalks clear actually entails or where these areas are located when they are not standing on the corners watching the mess. Finally, I don't understand why drivers would prefer to sit idle in traffic and spend $20 in gas then to use the other, tolled entrances/exits.
I understand that the area on the far east side near the 59th St. bridge exits/entrances. as well as the nearby FDR entrance/exist has the highest pedestrian (hit by car) fatality rate on the east side.
1
"the only existing means of entering or departing NYC without a toll"
Brooklyn Bridge
Manhattan Bridge
Williamsburg Bridge
Broadway Bridge
Brooklyn Bridge
Manhattan Bridge
Williamsburg Bridge
Broadway Bridge
1
FYI, the Brooklyn, Manhattan, and Williamsburg bridges are all toll-free. Likewise, there are several Bronx-to-Manhattan bridges without tolls. The Queensboro is not the only option, and I'm sure many living at the base of these other bridges would share similar stories.
The way to solve our transit issues is to make a tax policy change that ensures more people take transit! Brilliant!
2
"“Congestion pricing is an idea whose time has come, Mr. Cuomo said. He declined to provide specifics about how the plan would work and what it would charge."
What a fiasco: Cuomo, in thrall to the rich and connected, won't even tell us how he plans to pick our pockets. Although I voted for him (twice, I'm sorry to say), he can be sure of being dumped if his corrupt administration pushes one more regressive tax on the most taxed citizens in the country.
What a fiasco: Cuomo, in thrall to the rich and connected, won't even tell us how he plans to pick our pockets. Although I voted for him (twice, I'm sorry to say), he can be sure of being dumped if his corrupt administration pushes one more regressive tax on the most taxed citizens in the country.
4
People want a $5 subway ride for $2.50. Who picks up the balance: state, city, commuters, motorists, upstate? Maybe subway riders should pay the whole cost than they can have the quality of subway they are willing to pay for and non riders aren't fleeced.
2
I actually agree...partly. Both should be raised. But mainly for Uber, livery cabs and yellow / green cabs. It's the rich that ride around in paid for drivers - make them pay too. 2.75 for a subway ride is way too cheap. Coffee is more expensive
1
As a small business owner let's see:
New 5 paid sick days law. New Paid Family Leave law. Multiple large increases to minimum wages. Highest vehicle insurance rates in the country,
and now additional tolls on multiple freight trucks running 365 days a year which will cost me tens of thousands of dollars annually.
I've been raising prices every year lately and eventually my customers will say no at which point I will close shop and fire a few dozen NYC residents so they can have their jobs outsourced to a robot in Pennsylvania.
Not saying that all these laws are bad, but small businesses a groaning under them.
New 5 paid sick days law. New Paid Family Leave law. Multiple large increases to minimum wages. Highest vehicle insurance rates in the country,
and now additional tolls on multiple freight trucks running 365 days a year which will cost me tens of thousands of dollars annually.
I've been raising prices every year lately and eventually my customers will say no at which point I will close shop and fire a few dozen NYC residents so they can have their jobs outsourced to a robot in Pennsylvania.
Not saying that all these laws are bad, but small businesses a groaning under them.
6
So sick days are bad? Maternity leave is bad? Minimum wages are bad? Newsflash, if your sick, pregnant underpaid workers can't get to work because of too much congestion and decrepit transit, that is what would be bad.
The majority of residents of the outer boroughs or near suburbs who drive into Manhattan do so because their jobs require making stops in different places during the day (sometimes in and outside the city), or commute to/from places that are not well connected by mass transit. Just because keeping a car in the city is expensive doesn't mean that these folks are richie-riches who can easily afford an extra lump of money per week; many are struggling to make it work as it is. The ones who are genuinely wealthy are all in cabs or Town Cars.
4
Frankly, people who want to drive a lot, drive in connection with their jobs, to their jobs, etc., should move to cities that were built for car culture -- like in Texas, Arizona and the like. New York City was not built for cars -- it was built for horses and buggies, then streetcars, subways, buses and the like. It has tried to adapt to cars,but has become overwhelmed by them. Car culture states and cities are newer and were built with cars, suburbs and the like in mind. Cheap parking, cheap gas, good highways, no competition with public transit because there is hardly any public transit, etc. People who are really into doing everything in their cars should move there. I would if I had a car and wanted to drive a lot.
1
bob d'amico: I gave up YEARS AGO trying to find someone to do a decent paint job, etc. And I do all the cleaning myself. I also put all my IKEA type furniture together myself because can't even find someone competent to do that. And I am 70. There is plenty of work for people like you out in places like Texas.
2
Kale salad clean up specialists typically live in LI. Tolls could be budgeted by business and built into fixing kale debacles. Pass on the charge as they say
Cuomo would not care about the MTA if he wasn't planning to run for higher office or nervous about re-election. He's concerned about his own interests and this just happens to coincide lately.
2
Sad but true. Frankly, I never thought we would hear such a proposal with "car guys" serving as both Governor and Mayor.
You know an idea whose time has come? Telecommuting. It makes no sense for most people to commute to any job, to Manhattan or any other central place, that involves sitting in front of a computer, attending meetings or other tasks that could easily be done at home or even anywhere with an Internet connection. This outdated modality of having to spend an inordinate amount of time to move your body to another place and pollute the environment in the process in order to make a living will lessen the load on our infrastructure and will improve the lives of all people at all incomes much more than a misguided idea of a congestion tax paid for by the rich that may or not go toward said infrastructure.
5
In the 2017 MTA budget over $800 million goes to something called "other fringe benefits."
That's separate from payroll, pensions, and health and wellfare costs.
It's double what's spent on electricity and 5 times what's spent on fuel.
It's double the annual shortfall.
So what exactly is it?
That's separate from payroll, pensions, and health and wellfare costs.
It's double what's spent on electricity and 5 times what's spent on fuel.
It's double the annual shortfall.
So what exactly is it?
6
NYC's congestion could be significantly improved if there was stricter enforcement of traffic rules. London's congestion pricing affects a very small business district of the city and is effective since it's implemented in conjunction with a very strict camera enforcement of traffic rules throughout the entire city. Block the box, double park, stand in a no standing zone and the vehicle is automatically issued a fine. Drivers learn quickly to keep things moving. I drive often in Manhattan and am amazed by how much congestion could be avoided by simply cracking down on double parked vehicles, delivery trucks in particular.
14
It's an idea who time came a long time ago, but Cuomo refused to recognize how seriously failing to acknowledge it could affect his chances for higher office and/or his "legacy."
Commercial and residential real estate developers are not licensed, use other peoples money, and like Trump often enjoy tax breaks for robbing the public and congesting our cities. Why doesn't Cuomo charge them, and why does he tip toe around criticizing Trump? Wouldn't have anything to do with the 40 years of the Cuomo family seeing contributions from the Trumps would it?
A fractional commuter tax should be restored, but a tax on luxury and commercial New York City real estate based on congestion valuation should provide the funds to maintain our public transportation provided it can be dedicated and not diverted to that purpose. The skepticism toward this notion from comments below is entirely justified by history and experience.
A fractional commuter tax should be restored, but a tax on luxury and commercial New York City real estate based on congestion valuation should provide the funds to maintain our public transportation provided it can be dedicated and not diverted to that purpose. The skepticism toward this notion from comments below is entirely justified by history and experience.
4
Yes, and I would also consider even higher taxes on luxury developments that offer parking, thereby encouraging even more people to have cars in the city.
1
You might want an uber tax on the condo by Seldorf that includes the drive in elevator garage to your particular condo floor.
I do not see how this is fair to car-owning residents of the non-Manhattan boroughs. The taxes they pay should be sufficient to allow them to take their cars anywhere in their city and not be unduly burdened to cross a bridge that was built for the benefit of all NYC residents. To the extent that they are not allowed to take them into Manhattan, then maybe they should have their taxes lowered accordingly.
4
Many of the car-owning residents of the non-Manhattan boroughs live in private homes, for which they pay some of the lowest property taxes in the NY metro area. Have you ever compared the property taxes of a private home in Ditmas Park or Forest Hill with those of a comparably sized house in Scarsdale?
2
Car-owning residents of New York CIty should be paying extra personal property taxes for the privilege of owning cars within the city. If you want "lower" taxes, then move to New Jersey.
2
Apparently you didn't see what Nassau taxpayers pay n property taxes Ellie.
Before putting tolls on the East RIver crossings how about encouraging businesses in Manhattan to embrace remote workers sitting at home with their computers. No reason to clog up the subways and roads with people who would be better off working from home.
3
not enough money. taxes the wrong people. Como has yet to bite the bullet,
and tax the poeple he is lothe to tax. Both the businesses who benefit from the subways, and those who can afford to be taxed.
and tax the poeple he is lothe to tax. Both the businesses who benefit from the subways, and those who can afford to be taxed.
2
So let's say that our dopey, enemy-of-the-people governor is allowed to impose tolls in Manhattan. How is he going to collect it? Will huge, unsightly towers with sensors and cameras be erected on our streets to read license plates?
2
Yet another way the rich can buy themselves out of inconvenience.
2
And benefit the rest of us? Yes.
There are better solutions that all that is said and done re taxes and fixing the system.... A) Don't have kids and B) Don't work or live in NY. It's totally overrated at this point.
I would be happy to forego congestion pricing if we could finally bring the property taxes on single family homes in the outer boroughs up to where they should be. People with 5-bedroom houses in Ditmas Park pay $3,000 - $5,000 a year in property taxes (and often have a couple of cars), while the property taxes on a comparable home in a decent suburb would be 5 X that.
1
So, some poor blue-collar worker living out in Corona or Jamaica or another part of the outer boroughs just trying to keep body and soul together with his battered van or pickup is going to shoulder the same tolls as a couple tooling in from Scarsdale for dinner, a show, and after dinner drinks. Scarsdale will keep driving in while Jamaica loses his work. But that's the NYC that Bloomberg handed us, more billionaires wanted, others need not apply.
5
They can both use public transportation.
3
no they can't. a construction worker has tools/equipment/materials he needs to transport in a vehicle. do you think he should put a table saw, a jackhammer, a 4 5lb cans of compound on his back and lug it on the subway and/or the bus?
your statement really is indicative of the city that we now have in 2017. it's people like you, ellienyc, who have invaded our city with your entitlement and lack of empathy to the long term detriment and soul of what was once the greatest city in the world.
your statement really is indicative of the city that we now have in 2017. it's people like you, ellienyc, who have invaded our city with your entitlement and lack of empathy to the long term detriment and soul of what was once the greatest city in the world.
4
My sense of entitlement is to a safe environment where I can cross the street in a crosswalk with a green light without being run over by an overpaid construction worker in an SUV or a truck. At 70 years old and having lived in the city for more than 40 years, I am sick and tired of of all the weeping and wailing of all the highly paid construction workers and cops and firefighters. Frankly, I think there would be plenty of money in the public coffers to deal with public transit if (1) we didn't have to so many 6 figure cops and firefighters and construction workers retiring on fat pensions in their 40s w/free lifetime family health care and (2) we didn't have people owning single family homes (not to mention multiple cars) in the outer boroughs and paying property taxes that are only 20-30% of the property taxes they would pay on comparable homes in comparable neighborhoods in the suburbs!
It's not that there aren't jobs in the empty states, it's just that there apparently aren't enough overpaid ones to satisfy people like you.
It's not that there aren't jobs in the empty states, it's just that there apparently aren't enough overpaid ones to satisfy people like you.
1
Much as I always distrust the Governor's motives, he's making sense here.
1
Funds earmarked seemingly wind up in a general fund for other purposes.
Tolls on the MTA bridges, 75% was supposedly earmarked for MTA; where did that money go.??
We pay gasoline taxes on each gallon of gas; where did that money go?
Tolls on the MTA bridges, 75% was supposedly earmarked for MTA; where did that money go.??
We pay gasoline taxes on each gallon of gas; where did that money go?
1
You've got to be kidding! We pay NY City, State and Fed Gov. taxes, we pay taxes to own a car and outrageously high insurance rates to drive in NY. Now we are supposed to pay this ridiculously high price to go between one borough and another as though we are not citizens of the SAME CITY. This is not the answer.
Mine is one vote for sure that will never again go to Cuomo for any reason (and yes, I do vote and I did vote for him last time, much to my chagrin).
Mine is one vote for sure that will never again go to Cuomo for any reason (and yes, I do vote and I did vote for him last time, much to my chagrin).
6
"We" (at least the "wes" in the outer boroughs) also pay some of the lowest property taxes on single family homes in the NY metro area.
Best plan is to reinstate the commuter tax. With all of the building construction going on now & in the past few years, the need for all types of transportation will surely increase. Pretty soon, no one will be able to get anywhere. All modes of transportation need to be updated. Blaming cars is not the solution.
2
Cuomo anounces a brand new tax on New Yorkers! That should be the headline. When will these greedy and wasteful career politicians get their hands off the citizens' pockets?! We are already the highest taxed people in the entire nation! How much should it cost us to live in this city and state? We are paying with our hard earned tax money for free legal services for people braking the law! What pet programs will they cut to pay for the work that needs to be done in our overpriced mass transit? This is outrageous. Be a man and call it a tax, Cuomo!
5
Umm, How long have we been the "highest taxed people in the entire nation?" How long have you chosen, by your own free will, to live in Manhattan? Why should we consider your opinion at all?
1
Nassau County taxpayers pay some of THE Highest tax rates in the country and according to USA today as of 2017 NYS pays the highest rate.
"Congestion pricing is an idea whose time has come".
Andrew Cuomo is a man whose time came and went.
Andrew Cuomo is a man whose time came and went.
3
Congestion pricing has been working well in London for several years. And it isn't just a question of having more money for public trans (though their system works MUCH better than ours), it's also a question of not having so many vehicles clogging the streets and despoiling the city. Further, in my experience, the cars in NYC most likely to be violating traffic rules (for example, running down pedestrians with the right of way in crosswalks) are people from the suburbs in huge SUVs.
2
In true Democratic style, let's not be fiscally responsible, let's just find the easiest target available to tax.
1
I'm all for raising and adding tolls to pay for road and bridge repair, as that would be the fairest funding mechanism - based on individual use. While better than a higher income tax, charging drivers for subways is apples and oranges. Charge subway riders for subways! If that means doubling or tripling subway fares, so be it, that's what it costs. People should be required to pay for what they use, and shouldn't expect drivers or anyone else to subsidize them. If they can't afford it, they can walk, ride a bike or not work in the city. If enough people can't afford it, there will be a labor shortage. In reality, wages will have to rise to compensate, meaning the cost will be shared between those using the subway and those relying on the labor of those using the subway, which is exactly how it should be.
3
re: "paying for what they use": let's start with on-street parking on public roads. Car ownership is heavily subsidized in NYC given the high land values and the fact that car owners get to use a huge amount of publicly owned land to store their cars for free.
And congestion pricing forces drivers to pay the cost they impose on other drivers by contributing to congestion and therefore longer commutes.
I think if car uses/owners paid the true cost of car use/ownership (including the externalities of contributing to congestion and pollution) then maybe an argument could be made for subway riders paying the full cost of subway ridership. But as it stands car users benefit greatly from subsidized subways, as without the subsidies even more cars would be on the roads and commutes by car would be even longer.
And congestion pricing forces drivers to pay the cost they impose on other drivers by contributing to congestion and therefore longer commutes.
I think if car uses/owners paid the true cost of car use/ownership (including the externalities of contributing to congestion and pollution) then maybe an argument could be made for subway riders paying the full cost of subway ridership. But as it stands car users benefit greatly from subsidized subways, as without the subsidies even more cars would be on the roads and commutes by car would be even longer.
4
Forget about the cost of public transit -- Manhattan is overecrowded, and overcrowded with cars and other motor vehicles. They are dangerous and there are too many of them here. They routinely run down pedestrians exercising their right to cross a street in a crosswalk. They diminish our quality of life. If you think Manhattan is such a great place that you need to drive here in your personal vehicle, then move here. But we don't want you so much we are wiling to put up with your disgusting cars any longer.
1
For every one person crossing in the crosswalk there are a dozen who jaywalk and forget about the kamikaze cyclists who DON'T obey traffic rules. So Ellie let's get rid of the repairmen, the deliverymen, and all others who rely on vans to commute. Good luck fixing your stove (if you even use it) when it breaks down.
1
This will just be another tax on the poor and the subway fares will simply continue to go up and the delays will remain the same. Why? Because it is Government mismanagement; not a lack of funds. They spent 4 Billion dollars on one new subway station at the former WTC site. 4 Billion dollars for one subway station! Maybe they should have planned better? Don't you think? Ridership is at an all time high. Weekday average ridership is 5,655,755 daily at a cost of $2.75, meaning approximately $15.5 million dollars is generated every day of the year by the MTA. Where is the money going? That is the conversation the Governor and Mayor should be having; not who to tax next.
9
It's not a tax, it's a usage fee.
Driving in Manhattan is entirely optional.
And those that do are by no measure poor or middle class. The average driver in Manhattan makes over 3 times average income.
Driving in Manhattan is entirely optional.
And those that do are by no measure poor or middle class. The average driver in Manhattan makes over 3 times average income.
7
Steve, since it's a usage fee, then it's ok if the revenues go to helping the poor? Otherwise, it's a tax.
1
"driving in manhattan is totally optional"??????
so when i work in manhattan (for very little after already being overburdened with taxes, insurance,constant ticketing, etc) painting someone's apartment or office, i should strap 5 gallon pails of paint/jont compound, extension ladders, drop cloths, poles, and scaffolding to my back and walk to the bus, then transfer to the subway, then transfer to the other train and down the street to your entitled, gentrification-ridden abode to work after you've already talked me down on the price 3 times because that's what you're trained to do in your daily work life?
so when i work in manhattan (for very little after already being overburdened with taxes, insurance,constant ticketing, etc) painting someone's apartment or office, i should strap 5 gallon pails of paint/jont compound, extension ladders, drop cloths, poles, and scaffolding to my back and walk to the bus, then transfer to the subway, then transfer to the other train and down the street to your entitled, gentrification-ridden abode to work after you've already talked me down on the price 3 times because that's what you're trained to do in your daily work life?
2
Yet another reason never to visit NYC. For someone born in Manhattan and lived in every borough except Staten Island until 1989 I can say this after moving to Westchester, I don't miss NYC one bit. So charge $ 800 for all I care. If I need anything Amazon will be there for me. And we all know that whatever money is generated by this new tax it will only go to sweeten the bloated pensions and benefits of the Unions and not improvement of service.
7
The solution to subway funding is as obvious as the solution to runway congestion at LaGuardia (sending the cargo to Islip or Newburgh, as cargo doesn't care where it flies out of, people do).
Suburbanites don't want a commuter tax, while city residents want better subways (assuming of course that every suburban commuter works inside Penn or Grand Central Station and doesn't use the subway)? Payroll tax. Implement a .45% tax on all payrolls within the city, applicable to residents and commuters alike. No discrimination against commuters here. Then, when the crisis passes, lower the city income tax paid by residents. Don't tell me it can't happen, it has happened in the past. Easy as reducing runway congestion.
Suburbanites don't want a commuter tax, while city residents want better subways (assuming of course that every suburban commuter works inside Penn or Grand Central Station and doesn't use the subway)? Payroll tax. Implement a .45% tax on all payrolls within the city, applicable to residents and commuters alike. No discrimination against commuters here. Then, when the crisis passes, lower the city income tax paid by residents. Don't tell me it can't happen, it has happened in the past. Easy as reducing runway congestion.
1
I suggest the commuters just get jobs in suburbs and stop complaining. That will not only help clear our streets and sidewalks; but it will create more jobs for city residents.
2
Hilarious.
A congestion tax targets people who create legitimate costs to society:
1. Congestion
2. Pollution
3. Accidents
4. Noise
Drivers *are* creating these costs. They should pay for them. It's that simple.
Oh, and city policy is not to be dictated by the wants and needs of suburbanites.
If you don't want to pay a congestion tax, come live in the city and take the hot, smelly, dirty subway like the rest of us. Or take the train. Or carpool with a few buddies and split the toll. You have options.
Otherwise, be happy that our city provides you with endless economic opportunity and pay the darn toll.
A congestion tax targets people who create legitimate costs to society:
1. Congestion
2. Pollution
3. Accidents
4. Noise
Drivers *are* creating these costs. They should pay for them. It's that simple.
Oh, and city policy is not to be dictated by the wants and needs of suburbanites.
If you don't want to pay a congestion tax, come live in the city and take the hot, smelly, dirty subway like the rest of us. Or take the train. Or carpool with a few buddies and split the toll. You have options.
Otherwise, be happy that our city provides you with endless economic opportunity and pay the darn toll.
Lets not forget the Staten Island Ferry - we need to start charging a metrocard
fare for the crossing
fare for the crossing
2
Congestion pricing is a good idea. However the basic problem with funding the MTA is that subway tickets are too cheap, they are a fraction of the price of most developed countries.
1
Basic fare Paris, $2.05, Basic fare Berlin, $3.00, yes, I guess 70% and 108% are fractions. The difference of course is choosing or not choosing to fund the subway system.
1
Subway fares cover 100% of operating costs in Manhattan.
1
Well, yes but if you raise them to what they are in DC -- approx $5.50 each way + $5 to park = $15 / day, $75 / week.
A lot of people will just drive and get a monthly parking pass at that point.
A lot of people will just drive and get a monthly parking pass at that point.
The NY Times should do a story on the congestion pricing situation in London. Word of mouth from passengers in my cab is that it has only decreased the numbers of vehicles in the congestion zone by 1% and has resulted in massive bureaucratic headaches for its citizens.
9
That's not my impression from recent trips in London. Have you noticed that street traffic actually moves there? Have you recently been reluctant to get on a bus there, fearing you'd get stuck in traffic? Personally, I find it a much more pleasant, not to mention safe, place to walk in. I'm not constantly being cut off by giant hulking black SUVS fighting me for the right to be in a crosswalk
Look to London and its daily congestion charges for traffic entering certain parts of the city -- has been successful.
3
So, let me get this straight: the subways don't work, so let's tax drivers who choose to use their cars to avoid the subway in order to pay for fixing the broken subway? That's not very rational.
What makes far more sense is to tax the wealthy. Why? Not because I believe in redistribution per se, but because the wealthy own/manage companies that benefit from employees getting to work on time. Late employees = lost productivity = lower bottom lines. It's basic economics.
What makes far more sense is to tax the wealthy. Why? Not because I believe in redistribution per se, but because the wealthy own/manage companies that benefit from employees getting to work on time. Late employees = lost productivity = lower bottom lines. It's basic economics.
6
Tfd, why is it that you want to encourage more people to use their cars to commute into the city? Do you want more traffic? Do you want more competition for limited parking? Tell us how encouraging more driving is rational? What's rational is getting cars off the roads in the city.
I'm guessing that a lot of people that are against implementing congesting pricing now were also against it 10 years ago when Bloomberg originally proposed it. Well, guess what, as all who ride subways and buses know, in the last 10 years the service has become overwhelmed and horrible. Most cab drivers I've talked to seem to agree that the congestion in Manhattan has gotten far worse also, no thanks to Uber I suppose. Too many cars, too few well running, efficient public transit options. I wonder where we would be now if congestion pricing had been adopted 10 years ago? It doesn't seem hard to imagine that we'd have less congestion in the city and better public transit now had the extra tolls gone into funding mass transit. Now its an "emergency". Would've been better to act before we got to this point. Bloomberg was right on congestion pricing. In 10 years from now, the problems will only be worse unless we recognize that private and for-hire vehicles in Manhattan need to pay the true cost that they impose on the rest of the population.
5
The proceeds from the Bloomberg scheme were not earmarked for mass transit, but for any number of other PlaNYC objectives like turning schoolyards into playgrounds and encouraging massive population growth in order to increase the economy. There was no subway crisis then, and actually the current crisis is self created by Cuomo to underlmine and bully the mayor.
Where'd you get that? That wasn't my understanding at the time. This is what I've just found on wikipidedia and other sources:
"The accelerated MTA Capital Plan for 2008–2013[37] details transit investments[38] that revenue from congestion pricing would pay for. These include 44 subway station rehabilitations, increased bus service, new Select Bus Service bus rapid transit in all 5 boroughs, $40 million for suburban park and ride facilities, Metro-North and LIRR station rehabilitations, third track work, East Side Access, Second Avenue Subway, and [[Fulton Street Transit Center]."
And in a paper published by the city, there was this,
"The net proceeds of congestion fees would be devoted to transportation improvements through a $31
billion regional SMART Financing Authority."
"The accelerated MTA Capital Plan for 2008–2013[37] details transit investments[38] that revenue from congestion pricing would pay for. These include 44 subway station rehabilitations, increased bus service, new Select Bus Service bus rapid transit in all 5 boroughs, $40 million for suburban park and ride facilities, Metro-North and LIRR station rehabilitations, third track work, East Side Access, Second Avenue Subway, and [[Fulton Street Transit Center]."
And in a paper published by the city, there was this,
"The net proceeds of congestion fees would be devoted to transportation improvements through a $31
billion regional SMART Financing Authority."
1
See the following nyc.gov link: http://www.nyc.gov/html/dot/downloads/pdf/schaller_paper_2010trb.pdf
Your quotes rankle of mere vapid city planese speak. Congestion Pricing was going to pay for the Second Ave Subway, Fulton Center, 44 stations and all those other things? You might consider that the MTA, In 2008, instead announced a 25% fare increase along side implementing numerous service cuts to bus and other routes, some of which affected my commute and many of which have never been restored. So it looks like there wasn't too much behind their claims, and their only intention was to fold any proceeds into their operating budget. What's that line about a bridge for sale?
Your quotes rankle of mere vapid city planese speak. Congestion Pricing was going to pay for the Second Ave Subway, Fulton Center, 44 stations and all those other things? You might consider that the MTA, In 2008, instead announced a 25% fare increase along side implementing numerous service cuts to bus and other routes, some of which affected my commute and many of which have never been restored. So it looks like there wasn't too much behind their claims, and their only intention was to fold any proceeds into their operating budget. What's that line about a bridge for sale?
1
Why not incentive businesses to promote telecommuting, alternative work schedules outside the 8AM-6PM window, and other ways to diffuse the congestion that happens during 'rush hour'? Also, is there enough outside the box thinking about how to better use NYC's buses, including express buses? For example, closing a few major arteries in brooklyn completely to cars for exclusive use by buses to connect underserved neighborhoods with downtown subway stations would help to immediately alleviate some of the most overcrowded subways like the A train. not years, not decades, but now. We need transformative change.
3
As long as the people doing the telecommuting are from the burbs.
Why do vehicles cross into Manhattan for free when MTA riders have to pay an ever escalating fare?
17
If by MTA you mean MetroNorth and LIRR -- yes.
It is way too expensive to commute into NYC from the near suburbs.
It's got to be bad for business and for the city. People used to want to work in NYC. Now people are turning down opportunities in NYC because of the commuting nightmare.
It is way too expensive to commute into NYC from the near suburbs.
It's got to be bad for business and for the city. People used to want to work in NYC. Now people are turning down opportunities in NYC because of the commuting nightmare.
Not all vehicles get into Manhattan free of charge, Lincoln, Holland & QMT and various GW Bridge, Verrazano Bridge charge to get into the city.
How exactly are we motorists getting a free ride to get into Manhattan? The very highways and bridges that don't have tolls are actually paid for via taxes for infrastructure. In a way, we are paying for them even if it's not directly. Just to let you know, many of the highways and the crossings involved with them in the city are at least state owned in which I am paying for them despite not living there as well as some being federally owned to which the entire country pays for.
1
America's anti-social 'conservative' hijacking of common sense and national tax policy has run our entire national transportation infrastructure into the ground over the last 30 years.
Infrastructure requires continuous maintenance and investment.
America has been investing in billionaires and millionaires for decades while the country falls into total disrepair.
Cuomo's band-aid will help, but what America really needs is a big nationwide slap in the face to corporate and 0.1% welfare and the sociopathic No-New-Tax-Nincompoopery Nihilism that has made our national infrastructure a 3rd-wold attraction.
Check the Cayman Islands: all the diverted taxpayer dollars to Make America Great Again are resting comfortably in the tax dodging accounts of America's billionaire/millionaire class.
Infrastructure requires continuous maintenance and investment.
America has been investing in billionaires and millionaires for decades while the country falls into total disrepair.
Cuomo's band-aid will help, but what America really needs is a big nationwide slap in the face to corporate and 0.1% welfare and the sociopathic No-New-Tax-Nincompoopery Nihilism that has made our national infrastructure a 3rd-wold attraction.
Check the Cayman Islands: all the diverted taxpayer dollars to Make America Great Again are resting comfortably in the tax dodging accounts of America's billionaire/millionaire class.
21
Sorry, this one cannot be placed at the feet of conservatives. Our Democratic politicians are a corrupt bunch that have allowed the MTA and the unions to fleece the taxpayer while the infrastructure of our mass transit system crumbles.
3
Blame the republicans...easy enough.
Exactly.
1
Here's what congestion pricing will bring (if the MoveNY plan is implemented):
Economic benefits: Traffic congestion is a big drag on our economy. I once heard an economist say that because of this, East River tolls would be worthwhile, even if we dumped the toll money in the river.
Fairness: No longer will the rich drive to Manhattan for free while the poor pay to get there by mass transit. More money for mass transit means more benefits to the working classes. Tolls will be reduced at crossings where there are fewer mass transit options.
Better mass transit: More money for subways and buses. More express buses to outer borough neighborhoods.
Paying to get to Manhattan is something that most of us already do. Congestion pricing is a no-brainer!
Economic benefits: Traffic congestion is a big drag on our economy. I once heard an economist say that because of this, East River tolls would be worthwhile, even if we dumped the toll money in the river.
Fairness: No longer will the rich drive to Manhattan for free while the poor pay to get there by mass transit. More money for mass transit means more benefits to the working classes. Tolls will be reduced at crossings where there are fewer mass transit options.
Better mass transit: More money for subways and buses. More express buses to outer borough neighborhoods.
Paying to get to Manhattan is something that most of us already do. Congestion pricing is a no-brainer!
10
Just because it works in theory doesn't mean that it will work in practice especially when you know how the MTA has a history of handling much of their existing revenue sources.
1
Forcing people to use the overwhelmed mass-transit system instead of their cars seems like a good idea until you actually think.
This is a chicken-egg problem. The MTA needs to raise funds for upgrades aand actually perform said upgrades before the city or state starts forcing more people to use it.
Bonds are the best way to get this done, but the powers that be have to have the political courage to enact new fees to maintain the system after the upgrades.
This is a chicken-egg problem. The MTA needs to raise funds for upgrades aand actually perform said upgrades before the city or state starts forcing more people to use it.
Bonds are the best way to get this done, but the powers that be have to have the political courage to enact new fees to maintain the system after the upgrades.
2
The subway and bus system can easily absorb the small amount of drivers that will choose to shift.
Compare the size of a single occupancy car to a single person on transit and it will make sense.
Compare the size of a single occupancy car to a single person on transit and it will make sense.
2
Bonds are authorized for capital funded projects not maintenance, which comes from operating expense budget. This structural flaw lies at the root of why our infrastructure is poorly maintained while capital projects cost far more over time than people realize as the bonds are paid down but the Robert Moses spawned "Authorities" live on like a Soviet era kleptocracy.
So the burden is passed onto average NYers living in outer boroughs? As a Brooklyn resident, I will literally not be able to leave the city without the State extracting yet another share of my middle class wages. Unbelievable. Tax the wealthy! Tax Uber, who clogs up our streets with their out of control, unregulated numbers! Do not pass the tax onto average New Yorkers. Now musicians and performers will have to pay $11 for the privilege of driving to their gig in the city? Enough. I honestly think this will be the last straw. This is a city for the rich and the rich alone, that has become very, very clear.
16
How about an SUV tax?
7
Unless you're a contractor or drive off-road there's nothing dumber than driving an SUV.
I think it takes a lot of chutzpah to talk about taxing drivers right after naming a brand new four billion dollar bridge after his father.
7
Exactly, I hate when politicians do that. It's still The Triborough, Interborough,, 59th Street Bridge etc. And the Tappan Zee. Funny isn't Cuomo helicoptered everywhere he goes? When was the last time HE drove?
1
Instead of new taxes Cuomo ought to look into the corruption that is the MTA. Padded OT, slacking on the job and the bloated salaries of top management. Politicians have been in bed with Unions and obviously Cuomo and every other pol wants to be re-elected to the graft and corruption is allowed to continue. But his answer is to raise taxes by way of tolls. Where has the money gone?
8
Congestion taxes will only add to the burden carried by an already over-stressed, under-funded mass transit system. Here are two ideas for raise revenue to rebuild it:
#1. Why is the city still hostage of decades of tax breaks handed out to real estate developers like con artist Trump when the city was weak? Remedy: end unfair abatements and tax the companies who keep slamming through these luxury high rises and increasing the city's density. Time to pay up folks!
#2: Landlords who raise rents and force out small businesses and causing the current epidemic of empty storefronts are responsible for urban blight. Remedy:
after 60 days of empty store, they need to pay the NBA - Neighborhood Blight Assessment. Starting at $10,000/day per store and ramping up from there, with all funds going to mass transit, increased sanitation and neighborhood improvement.
#1. Why is the city still hostage of decades of tax breaks handed out to real estate developers like con artist Trump when the city was weak? Remedy: end unfair abatements and tax the companies who keep slamming through these luxury high rises and increasing the city's density. Time to pay up folks!
#2: Landlords who raise rents and force out small businesses and causing the current epidemic of empty storefronts are responsible for urban blight. Remedy:
after 60 days of empty store, they need to pay the NBA - Neighborhood Blight Assessment. Starting at $10,000/day per store and ramping up from there, with all funds going to mass transit, increased sanitation and neighborhood improvement.
6
The NYTimes should publish an audit of the MTA, going back at least a decade. Where are the billions going? Government seems to see spending as the solution to inefficiency and incompetence. NY has incredible taxes and fees, but where does that money go?
7
The pensions for those who work on MetroNorth and LIRR are just ridiculous.
1
Uber and Lyft drivers should be the only drivers forced to pay a congestion charge! There are 50,00 of these drivers clogging the city's streets as opposed to the 14,000 medallion taxis. Since the advent of ride sharing apps a couple of years ago, the traffic in Manhattan is unbearable.
24
make mass transit free. raise the gas tax.
1
Politicians talk as if it's a luxury to be forced to have to get to someplace that's congested. I'll tell them what . . .I'll be happy to quit my job and stop working and spending money, go out and live in a cave somewhere in the wilderness, and they can support me. There, there's one less bit of traffic congestion to accuse me for being the cause of.
5
Did Cuomo note how the tolls on the Westside Highway or the Williamsburg Bridge are to be paid? What if one doesn’t have E-Z Pass? Will it be like the preposterous, and inaccurate, system used on the Henry Hudson Bridge?
What about tolls on busy highways in Brooklyn, ever seen the Belt Parkway at evening rush hour?
Also regards toll revenue from say the East River bridges: Does Cuomo, or this article, mean to imply that they’re in perfect structural shape so repairs to them wouldn’t cost the City any part of this new revenue?
Seems like there’s a lot missing from this reporting, and Cuomo’s proposal. Bloomberg’s plan was typically out of touch, for the well to do, and included all sorts of problems. Cuomo appears to have learnt nothing.
What about tolls on busy highways in Brooklyn, ever seen the Belt Parkway at evening rush hour?
Also regards toll revenue from say the East River bridges: Does Cuomo, or this article, mean to imply that they’re in perfect structural shape so repairs to them wouldn’t cost the City any part of this new revenue?
Seems like there’s a lot missing from this reporting, and Cuomo’s proposal. Bloomberg’s plan was typically out of touch, for the well to do, and included all sorts of problems. Cuomo appears to have learnt nothing.
New York City has become a haven for the rich! Yes, the subways absolutely need repair but where does all the money go now! Never a person cleaning the subway, the smell of urine stinks and the rats are there! All these proposed extra dollars may never get to the core of the core issue, that is, steady upkeep OF FACILITIES, a process that has never been taken care of in our beloved new York City. Put some of those people without jobs to work, help beautify our City...not just increase the cost of enjoying it.
6
Seriously -- the stench in the subways, the rats in the stations, rats the size of small cats that roam the streets on nights when the garbage is put out -- no thanks.
BTW Mike Bloomberg tried very hard to fix all these problems but no one listened to him.
BTW Mike Bloomberg tried very hard to fix all these problems but no one listened to him.
Our shared right for a decent, clean, efficient transit system far outweighs a car owner's privilege to drive whenever and wherever he/she pleases.
6
With the subways bursting with unprecedented numbers of riders, where is the money from all those fares going?
4
Lining the pockets of workers and management with padded OT. Must be nice being a civil servant in NYC. Last time I saw construction in the city 6 guys standing around gabbing while the other was literally in a ditch. The waste is ridiculous.
3
Actually, John, not everyone pays. I see plenty of people boarding those SBS buses without having bought tix from the sidewalk kiosks, including stroller-pushing mothers on the Upper East Side.
When in doubt, slap another toll on the bridges and tunnels. It's always the fallback position for Democrat administrations. Heaven forbid that subway and buys users in New York City pay the full cost of their rides. Whatever happened to paying for the services that you use? It's the American way. What is not the American way is expecting somebody else to pay your way. That's the Democrat way.
4
When you directly pay the full cost of the roads you drive on -- ALL the roads, we'll pay the full cost of public transit. I bet you won't like what THAT will do you to your monthly budget.
6
Reposting this from another comment that is very similar to yours, simply because, well, it's an incredibly fallacious argument.
"Contrary to your belief, the people who ride the subway already pay for it; in fact, the farebox recovery ratio for the Subways is among, if not the highest, in the country. You can see this in how fares are subsidized for the Subways and the LIRR/MNRR: the subway gets roughly a $1 subsidy per ride, while the LIRR gets a $7.34, and MNRR gets a $4.26 subsidy per ride. In other words, it's a variant of a long running story - the City essentially subsidizing suburbia. What else is new."
"Contrary to your belief, the people who ride the subway already pay for it; in fact, the farebox recovery ratio for the Subways is among, if not the highest, in the country. You can see this in how fares are subsidized for the Subways and the LIRR/MNRR: the subway gets roughly a $1 subsidy per ride, while the LIRR gets a $7.34, and MNRR gets a $4.26 subsidy per ride. In other words, it's a variant of a long running story - the City essentially subsidizing suburbia. What else is new."
3
Sir -- calling them a Democrat administration vs. a Democratic administration tips us off about where you're coming from.
Nevertheless, the subway is part of why NYC is the thriving city it is.
If you raise the one-way fare to what it is in DC, for example, $5+ each way, lower income people cannot afford to use it to get the jobs that everyone needs to have filled -- coffee shops, deliveries, retail, etc.
~
Nevertheless, the subway is part of why NYC is the thriving city it is.
If you raise the one-way fare to what it is in DC, for example, $5+ each way, lower income people cannot afford to use it to get the jobs that everyone needs to have filled -- coffee shops, deliveries, retail, etc.
~
So... The plan to preserve the flow of corrupt theft of tax dollars to maintain the political chicanery that New York, California and Illinois perfected will continue unabated.
You can hear, if you listen closely the wheels turning in every greedy political head... Why didn't I think of that? How can I institute another money grab? Can I control the flow and conducting of businesses another way? "What a Concept" another way to charge for something free, I can buy even more votes.
Thank you God, de Blasio/Cuomo, SF council/La Mayor/Brown and of course Ram the Slam thank you Ma'm.
You can hear, if you listen closely the wheels turning in every greedy political head... Why didn't I think of that? How can I institute another money grab? Can I control the flow and conducting of businesses another way? "What a Concept" another way to charge for something free, I can buy even more votes.
Thank you God, de Blasio/Cuomo, SF council/La Mayor/Brown and of course Ram the Slam thank you Ma'm.
3
Where are all those drivers coming into the city going to go if they decide not drive?
On the subway of course! Which will make things even more congested and delay service even more. The system is already bursting at seams.
Also, living on 96th st. right at the buffer zone, I suspect many will try and park in the neighborhoods before they have to pay the toll, creating traffic jams and horn honking in those neighborhoods, and depriving residents of parking spaces.
This is a bad idea all around. Never work.
On the subway of course! Which will make things even more congested and delay service even more. The system is already bursting at seams.
Also, living on 96th st. right at the buffer zone, I suspect many will try and park in the neighborhoods before they have to pay the toll, creating traffic jams and horn honking in those neighborhoods, and depriving residents of parking spaces.
This is a bad idea all around. Never work.
1
i doubt they would be able to park in your neighborhood. They would probably have to park much further up or in an outer borough.
It is a good idea to apply fees and taxes to automobile travel and use that money to subsidize mass transit. The cost of traveling on the LIRR and the subways needs to be brought down so ridership will increase. Infrastructure needs to be improved.
2
Landlords should be forced to return a percentage of the exorbitant rents they are charging. They are the prime profiteers of people coming here and working in the city. All that sensless development also contributes to more congestion and overcrowding, instead we should reduce density and have more open green spaces. This malaise ultimately is a result of a longterm failure of sensible urban planning under a system that is only interested in the shorter term profits of its most powerful players.
8
They do, it's called property tax.
4
Anyone who lives here knows that we should have had congestion pricing years ago. People come in the city, go to dinner, see a show and spend upwards of $500. They could easily pay more for bridges and tunnels.
6
Or just not come to NYC as often or at all and spend that money elsewhere. NYC has no monopoly on good food and entertainment.
Wait...the solution for inadequate mass transit infrastructure to handle the demand is to make it more costly for people to drive into or through the city? Doesn't that just increase the demand for the mass transit infrastructure that is already overwhelmed?
8
You forgot the money part. Where it's used to fund more mass transit.
1
Assuming they actually do that and don't divert the proceeds to some other purpose, don't you realize how long the lead time between fundraising and completing the extra capacity would be? What are all the people incentivized to use the already crammed subways going to be doing in the interim years?
1
I am opposed to congestion pricing which favors the interests of the wealthy for whom the toll is inconsequential and who will continue to drive in Manhattan. I did a back of the envelope calculation comparing the impact of a toll on someone making the minimum wage against former Mayor Bloomberg's income. To make it equitable, Mr. Bloomberg would have to pay $50,000 each time he crossed the East River.
12
Minimum-wage earners don't own cars in NYC. They would benefit from the increase is mass transit funding. Yes, the rich would continue to drive. The point is that now they would have to pay.
5
Actually, I don't think it's just the rich who drive. Have you passed a public housing project recently? I am thinking of one in particular near the East River with a large, and full, parking lot. I can't believe all those cars belong to people who work in the building.
I live in an apartment building in Turtle Bay, and many, if not most, of the employees in my building (doormen, handymen, etc.) drive to work, some from places like Long Island and Pennsylvania. They aren't what I would call high income.
I live in an apartment building in Turtle Bay, and many, if not most, of the employees in my building (doormen, handymen, etc.) drive to work, some from places like Long Island and Pennsylvania. They aren't what I would call high income.
1
You know, it's already expensive to drive in Manhattan, so expensive (parking, parking tickets, wasted time sitting in traffic) that I don't think these charges would make much difference. No matter what type of business you go into in Manhattan, you are already paying more for whatever you buy than you would outside Manhattan. The added cost will just get passed along to the consumer. WHile I think some lower income people drive personal vehicles in Manhattan, I don't think many that are minimum wage do.
Jobs in NYC, professional, professional support, skilled blue collar, pay more than in other parts of the country mostly I think because of higher "cost of living." So if these charges negatively affect workers they want to move elsewhere, then employers will just have to increase wages.
Jobs in NYC, professional, professional support, skilled blue collar, pay more than in other parts of the country mostly I think because of higher "cost of living." So if these charges negatively affect workers they want to move elsewhere, then employers will just have to increase wages.
I'm sitting in a Manhattan office building with hundreds of my co-workers doing work that involves spending the day in front of a computer. There is no business reason for any us to be in Manhattan past our company's outdated ideas that management needs to see a physical presence. Imagine if all of us, along with the countless others in Manhattan who do similar work, were able to work from home or at least in satellite locations outside of the city. Plenty of seats would free up on the subways and trains.
90
Even the best employees lose structure when the boss is not around.
2
In Arizona there are no tolls on the highways or bridges (what counts as a bridge anyway). There is no real mass transportation system either. We do however pay a yearly car registration fee based on the value of our car which is hundreds of dollars. At least it keeps the roads in good shape.
1
Many communities in the east also have car registration fees and for the life of me I've never understood NYC doesn't.
There are a number comments arguing against both congestion pricing and the subsidization of public transport that ignore the economic justification for both.
Any time I opt to drive a car, I'm imposing a small cost on everyone else using the road, by contributing to congestion and making everyone else's commute marginally slower than it would have been if I hadn't been on the road. When I make the decision to drive (or not), I'm not internalizing this cost--in lost time--I'm imposing on other drivers. If I were forced to pay the cost I'm imposing on others, I may not opt to drive my car if the trip is not super important. Congestion pricing forces me as a driver to pay the true cost of my trip; without congestion pricing, car trips are cheaper than their true cost, and so too many car trips are taken.
I see a number of comments focusing on the cost of congestion pricing (the toll) but ignoring the benefit--the reduced congestion! This saves people time and money.
Regarding the frustration some drivers express that they are subsidizing subway rides through their taxes/tolls: drivers ought to be relieved that people are incentivized to take the subway, because the less incentive there is to take the subway, the more people will drive, which will only make congestion worse for the people who currently drive.
Any time I opt to drive a car, I'm imposing a small cost on everyone else using the road, by contributing to congestion and making everyone else's commute marginally slower than it would have been if I hadn't been on the road. When I make the decision to drive (or not), I'm not internalizing this cost--in lost time--I'm imposing on other drivers. If I were forced to pay the cost I'm imposing on others, I may not opt to drive my car if the trip is not super important. Congestion pricing forces me as a driver to pay the true cost of my trip; without congestion pricing, car trips are cheaper than their true cost, and so too many car trips are taken.
I see a number of comments focusing on the cost of congestion pricing (the toll) but ignoring the benefit--the reduced congestion! This saves people time and money.
Regarding the frustration some drivers express that they are subsidizing subway rides through their taxes/tolls: drivers ought to be relieved that people are incentivized to take the subway, because the less incentive there is to take the subway, the more people will drive, which will only make congestion worse for the people who currently drive.
24
Nice to read a comment by someone who has taken Economics 101. The subways were built mainly to get working people to jobs from areas of the city where lower cost housing could be built, or to replace elevated lines in Manhattan that reduced property values and disincentivized development along streets lined with tenements. For example, no number 7, no Jackson Heights with its middle class 'garden' apartments; no number 6, no Parkchester or Coop City, no plans for the D train under it, no development of Grand Concourse, although street rail did go up to the Bronx. And so forth.
1
The congestion that this is supposed to be a solution is on the subways not the roads. The city has already imposed major disincentives to driving, like turning major thoroughfares into sidewalk cafes. That has likely contributed to subway overcrowding. Less drivers = more subway passengers.
2
@Robert: So basically you're saying: the rich can afford to drive & they'll benefit from lower congestion - and too bad about the rest of us? If EVERYONE got off the road, there'd be NO congestion at all - wouldn't that be perfect?
Now, if you're a patient needing treatment for cancer or many other things, you may NEED to go by car from wherever you live into Manhattan for treatment. You think that should be congestion-charged? It's not enough that people already living in the 5 boroughs pay taxes on just about every single thing they do; you'd like to make sure even those who are weak from chemo or other medical treatment (or from any kind of surgery) are going to pay extra to get where they need to go, even if it's to get from home to hospital, or from hospital to home?
How do you "incentivize" corporations from needing to make truck deliveries? Are you proposing a surcharge (to be paid by the recipient) for every package delivered by UPS, FedEx, DHL, Amazon, etc.?
There are a bunch of things you can't incentivize people out of; some of those are: the need to take a car when you're going to/from a hospital (for treatment, after surgery, etc.), the need to use a car to shop at Costco and other big-box stores, the need to make deliveries to sustain businesses in NYC. How do you think HOSPITALS get their deliveries? How do you think CITY HALL gets its deliveries? How does your your local supermarket get new stock for its shelves? It's all coming in by car or truck.
Now, if you're a patient needing treatment for cancer or many other things, you may NEED to go by car from wherever you live into Manhattan for treatment. You think that should be congestion-charged? It's not enough that people already living in the 5 boroughs pay taxes on just about every single thing they do; you'd like to make sure even those who are weak from chemo or other medical treatment (or from any kind of surgery) are going to pay extra to get where they need to go, even if it's to get from home to hospital, or from hospital to home?
How do you "incentivize" corporations from needing to make truck deliveries? Are you proposing a surcharge (to be paid by the recipient) for every package delivered by UPS, FedEx, DHL, Amazon, etc.?
There are a bunch of things you can't incentivize people out of; some of those are: the need to take a car when you're going to/from a hospital (for treatment, after surgery, etc.), the need to use a car to shop at Costco and other big-box stores, the need to make deliveries to sustain businesses in NYC. How do you think HOSPITALS get their deliveries? How do you think CITY HALL gets its deliveries? How does your your local supermarket get new stock for its shelves? It's all coming in by car or truck.
1
Congestion charging, used successfully in London - just look at their new tube/subway stations and weep - is not a ban on traffic, it is just a tax.
If you can afford to garage or park a car south of 125th Street you can afford a $11 a day tax for driving in and out. Sheesh, I get charged $13 for parking my car at a Metro-North station, plus the train fare.
Number-plate readers and toll-booth free collection - like Massachusetts have on the Turnpike make this a no brainer.
If you can afford to garage or park a car south of 125th Street you can afford a $11 a day tax for driving in and out. Sheesh, I get charged $13 for parking my car at a Metro-North station, plus the train fare.
Number-plate readers and toll-booth free collection - like Massachusetts have on the Turnpike make this a no brainer.
15
Actually it was found to be a failure for London, but supporters such as Ken Livingstone, who was the mayor of London at the time, made excuses to keep it going in the claim of good faith. The real reason why he expanded the zone within two years wasn't because it was successful, but because it was actually failing and even had the tax doubled to make up for lost revenues. Just imagine what will happen if this gets past in NYC and is found to be a net money loser. This will probably result in making the zone possibly going up to 125th Street or even the entire island of Manhattan with the tax increased as well in the claims that it's still needed rather than just throwing the baby out with the bathwater on this. Of course, I'm not surprised that most of those who support this don't drive on a normal basis like I do, which is why they support it so much in that it won't affect them.
Bronx resident here--I drive in when the subway isn't running or massively delayed. Which is fairly often.
Let me make a prediction--They'll charge us the tolls, but they still won't fix the subways.
Mark my words.
Let me make a prediction--They'll charge us the tolls, but they still won't fix the subways.
Mark my words.
88
That's like predicting it'll be hot in Death Valley tomorrow.
Absolutely.
1
That sound you are hearing is money upstate slushing from one agency to another. Any new revenue additions to the MTA must come with oversight and transparency, as well as benchmarks and provability mechanisms to make sure it is spent where it is supposed to be spent. I was flabbergasted when it came time to pay for Cuomo's big bridge lighting project (seriously why is this a thing?) and the agency/agencies who were to pay for it shifted nearly daily. The budget is a ruse if it is clear, transparent, finite, and adhered to.
Traffic congestion was bad two years ago when I left Manhattan and it is much, much worse now. I regularly get off buses because I can walk faster.
There are fewer and fewer regular- or reasonable-size cars any more in midtown; only Escalade-size usually with only a driver. These take up more space on the roads that they also chew up, and they should pay for the privilege, as two of these huge SUVs takes up space for 3 cars of a normal size.
Secondly, the number of tall buildings recently completed and still being built result in an ever-expanding number of people who have expectations of entitlement while older people are staying put, younger people are coming in and young families are expanding in place.
London is another place facing the fact that the teachers, nurses, police, domestic help, et al cannot afford to live anywhere near their jobs and must commute long distances. So if some solution is not found to keep buses and subways running efficiently and cost-effectively (and not by raising fares to ridiculous levels so poorer people can't afford to get to a job) then I see total gridlock as the future of Manhattan.
Happily, after about 50 years as a resident of midtown, I won't be here.
There are fewer and fewer regular- or reasonable-size cars any more in midtown; only Escalade-size usually with only a driver. These take up more space on the roads that they also chew up, and they should pay for the privilege, as two of these huge SUVs takes up space for 3 cars of a normal size.
Secondly, the number of tall buildings recently completed and still being built result in an ever-expanding number of people who have expectations of entitlement while older people are staying put, younger people are coming in and young families are expanding in place.
London is another place facing the fact that the teachers, nurses, police, domestic help, et al cannot afford to live anywhere near their jobs and must commute long distances. So if some solution is not found to keep buses and subways running efficiently and cost-effectively (and not by raising fares to ridiculous levels so poorer people can't afford to get to a job) then I see total gridlock as the future of Manhattan.
Happily, after about 50 years as a resident of midtown, I won't be here.
2
Since you brought up London, many have tried to use that model to make a claim that such a plan, but here's what they didn't know. Within two years the congestion zone was already being seen as a failure especially with many either parking their cars outside the zone to save money, using the free roads more when in effect, or even just waiting until after the fee was lifted to enter the CBD. That resulted in Ken Livingstone, who was the mayor of London at that time, to not only expand the zone, but to even increase the tax itself just to make up for lost revenue. Many felt that the idea for congestion pricing for London was also a regressive tax and had a lot of opposition making the passing of it a form of elitism. After seeing how it wasn't doing good many feared that if it was passed here in NYC and failed the same thing would have happened here as well in the claims to keeping it. Although Boris Johnson, who won the election for mayor of London, didn't like the idea, he only agreed to revert the zone back to its original parameters rather than just get rid of it completely. In reality, the claim that we can always get rid of the idea if it fails is more easier said and done and supporters will always try to doing things such as fudge data to make it look as if it's working as their claim to keeping or even amending it rather than just ending it.
1
Suburban commuters don't ride the subway, nor do most rich folks. Yet they're being asked to pay for it?
How about we ask only the people who ride the subway to pay for it? In fact, hike the fare high enough that the city can provide subsidized tickets to low-income residents.
The bottom line is that the people who actually ride the subway aren't paying what it costs to RUN the subway.
How about we ask only the people who ride the subway to pay for it? In fact, hike the fare high enough that the city can provide subsidized tickets to low-income residents.
The bottom line is that the people who actually ride the subway aren't paying what it costs to RUN the subway.
2
"Suburban commuters don't ride the subway,"
How so? Do all suburban commuters drive into Manhattan, and then park near their places of work?
"The bottom line is that the people who actually ride the subway aren't paying what it costs to RUN the subway."
Do you mean to imply that users of highways pay the costs of repair?
How so? Do all suburban commuters drive into Manhattan, and then park near their places of work?
"The bottom line is that the people who actually ride the subway aren't paying what it costs to RUN the subway."
Do you mean to imply that users of highways pay the costs of repair?
6
My guess, the vast majority of subway riders are low income and it would not be fair to tax a minority of 'higher income' riders for this by raising the fare substantially. The subway brings people to work in NYC so is therefore a vital part of the NYC economy. As the principle form of convenient transportation in NYC it should be supported by everyone: those who use it and those who live and/or work in NYC, whether they use it or not. The State which receives money from income tax here should also assist.
2
When those coming in from the Suburbs via the LIRR/NJT at Penn (or Atlantic Terminal in Brooklyn for the former) and the MNRR at GCT disembark, where do they go to get to their ultimate destination? Mostly, the subway. There's a reason why E trains going uptown are packed from Penn to Lex-53 during the AM rush, and the reverse is true in the PM rush as well.
Contrary to your belief, the people who ride the subway already pay for it; in fact, the farebox recovery ratio for the Subways is among, if not the highest in the country. You can see this in how fares are subsidized for the Subways and the LIRR/MNRR: the subway gets roughly a $1 subsidy per ride, while the LIRR gets a $7.34, and MNRR gets a $4.26 subsidy per ride. In other words, it's a variant of a long running story - the City essentially subsidizing suburbia. What else is new.
Also, I think you know this, but everyone benefits from a reliable subway system, and mass transit in general. I already detailed how suburban residents benefit - do I really need to go into detail on how the rich CEO of a major company in the City benefits when his/her workers, the vast majority of whom probably take the subway, have a reliable mass transit system they can depend on?
Contrary to your belief, the people who ride the subway already pay for it; in fact, the farebox recovery ratio for the Subways is among, if not the highest in the country. You can see this in how fares are subsidized for the Subways and the LIRR/MNRR: the subway gets roughly a $1 subsidy per ride, while the LIRR gets a $7.34, and MNRR gets a $4.26 subsidy per ride. In other words, it's a variant of a long running story - the City essentially subsidizing suburbia. What else is new.
Also, I think you know this, but everyone benefits from a reliable subway system, and mass transit in general. I already detailed how suburban residents benefit - do I really need to go into detail on how the rich CEO of a major company in the City benefits when his/her workers, the vast majority of whom probably take the subway, have a reliable mass transit system they can depend on?
11
Maybe we should fix the subway before we introduce tens of thousands more commuters to it's already delayed and overcrowded system. It is because the system is so over burdened that commuters choose to drive and now you want to take that option away. How is the mass transit system going to handle the new influx of commuters who will not be able to afford to drive.
1
No toll booths, that's the beauty of license plate recognition as is now coming on line all over the NY metro area. You don't have to dig in your pocket or even confront the fact that you are being tolled. Sooner or later this will happen on every bridge and entry point, it is just too painless and efficient not to. Kind of like a mosquito bite.
1
It's time came years ago when Bloomberg's team introduced it. It was killed by corrupt Sheldon Silver. There would have been plenty of money to stave off the backlog now. Well better late than never.
NYC is a global city. In other global cities - mass transit is king - not cars! In Shanghai and Hong Kong and Tokyo the trains literally run on time 99 percent of the time. NY needs to do better. This is not LA or Miami or Vegas.
As to the reality of the issue - I hope Move NY's plan gets implemented. There is no reason someone from the Bronx trying to go to LaGuardia airport should pay 15 dollars round trip and people can drive into Manhattan free. Outer borough tolls indeed should be lowered.
Lastly Uber cars need an extra surcharge - unless they are a zero emissions. Then they could get a discount - but being they wouldn't be paying gas taxes they need to contribute to wear and tear they put on the roads.
NYC is a global city. In other global cities - mass transit is king - not cars! In Shanghai and Hong Kong and Tokyo the trains literally run on time 99 percent of the time. NY needs to do better. This is not LA or Miami or Vegas.
As to the reality of the issue - I hope Move NY's plan gets implemented. There is no reason someone from the Bronx trying to go to LaGuardia airport should pay 15 dollars round trip and people can drive into Manhattan free. Outer borough tolls indeed should be lowered.
Lastly Uber cars need an extra surcharge - unless they are a zero emissions. Then they could get a discount - but being they wouldn't be paying gas taxes they need to contribute to wear and tear they put on the roads.
3
Yes by all means stick it to the people again more tolls, none of which our politicians use. They are helicoptered or expense their way via tax payer money. Cuomo who doesn't use the roadways but is chauffeured at our expense can spew anything he likes he doesn't have to pay.
1
The city subway system moves more people than ever and it is dilapidated. So let's charge the people who can't afford to not know if and when they are gonna get there even MORE money for using an alternative to "public' transportation. That way maybe those drivers will decide to join the crowd crammed into the subway cars causing an even bigger crush.
1
(Electric) bikes should be a big part of the solution here. They take up only a little road space, the infrastructure they require is cheap, they are cheap to own and operate, and they are more reliable than anything else in NYC these days.
1
As a start, the head of the MTA and all "management" should be fired. I live on the Upper East Side where they were working on the new subway line. The creation of it ran way over budget and I think I know why. Every time I walked past that area all I saw were men standing around drinking coffee and smoking. It's obvious that "management" is incapable of managing.
3
Note to Legislature: stop this tax increase in its tracks. Put modest one-way tolls on the East River bridges with E-Zee Pass readers and that's all.
Why are the salaries of the MTA brass not made public? Too embarrassing?
18
Tolls should be waived for residents of NYC, why should we pay tolls to enter our own neighborhood? Commuters need to pay way more of their share for the infrastructure. If they don't want to pay a commuter tolls to work and play in Manhattan, then stay the heck in Jersey.
2
Earth to Bill: the proposed tolls are for people crossing the East River going west. NJ'ers already pay tolls on Port Authority crossings going east.
4
Bill. Out of state commuters pay city and state income tax, but don't use city services 24/7. NY/NJ suburbanites use train service, maybe a subway or not depending on if they work near GCT, Penn Station or lower Manhattan transit stops. Major issue is inability of Transit Authority to complete jobs on time and on budget. Second Avenue being the latest fiasco - delays and cost; plus the line doe not go to 42nd street,
Commuters do not pay city tax, only State tax. We used to have a city based commuter tax but the state did away with it as it was unfair to people who did not live it the city.
1
So the poor people who are forced to drive will pay for the subway? Echh. I will never, ever vote for Cuomo again.
3
Who is forcing poor people to drive again?
1
I can’t understand all of the scrambling to find money to fix the subways. The MTA is a state agency that has been collecting tax money for many years. According to De Blasio the state has taken about a half Billion dollars out of the MTA to pay for other state obligations, all Cuomo has to do now is return the money.
5
"In Manhattan, drivers crossing 60th Street northbound or southbound would also be charged a $5.54 toll, including along the West Side Highway and the Franklin D. Roosevelt Drive."
This is a crazy idea because people will take alternative street routes to avoid using the West Side Highway or the FDR to save on the toll which will create much more congestion on city streets (Such as First Avenue going uptown). To save on the 'crossing 60th street' toll, I imagine cars and taxis stopping short of crossing that street to avoid the toll and/or turning around. Imagine the congestion that would cause. For example I can imagine taking a taxi and being told crossing 60 would cost a surcharge over $5.54 many customers will be saying "Drop me off at 61st street. I will walk the rest of the way. Then the taxis would likely turn around and go uptown saving the $5.54, leading to more traffic jams on side streets in the process.
This is a crazy idea because people will take alternative street routes to avoid using the West Side Highway or the FDR to save on the toll which will create much more congestion on city streets (Such as First Avenue going uptown). To save on the 'crossing 60th street' toll, I imagine cars and taxis stopping short of crossing that street to avoid the toll and/or turning around. Imagine the congestion that would cause. For example I can imagine taking a taxi and being told crossing 60 would cost a surcharge over $5.54 many customers will be saying "Drop me off at 61st street. I will walk the rest of the way. Then the taxis would likely turn around and go uptown saving the $5.54, leading to more traffic jams on side streets in the process.
1
This will take courage on the part of the governor, but he may be right. It works in London. I confess I have never purchased a car and found operating one while living in Manhattan was a nuisance, cause I couldn't afford to garage it. I commuted to work on a crowded subway from UES to downtown for 35 years. During the 70s and 80s it was certainly unpleasant in summer, but AC took hold. I resent people who live in the burbs and insist on driving into Manhattan. They may feel put upon by the railroads, but mostly these modes work well. Many of the comments here bespeak an ignorance about how NYC works and a clear anti-urban bias. The guy who drives his BMW into town from Great Neck probably benefits from the labor pool in NYC that rides subways -- not just at his company but at all the service industries he uses here. It is one economy. The traffic plan could exclude the handicapped and others, such as shift workers.
13
So Cuomo wants to charge an additional $8 for cars, delivery trucks and Ubers to enter mid town Manhattan -- after already paying $15 just to cross the George Washington bridge. Commuters and residents will bear this burden along with higher prices on everything from bread to milk so that Cuomo can raise $500 million for the subway that he has been ignoring for years. In the mean time, he also wants to spend $350 million -- a year -- just to light up all the bridges with pretty colored lights. And he wants to rename one of those bridges after his own father.
What sin have we New Yorkers committed that we should be plagued by Cuomo and DeBlasio?
What sin have we New Yorkers committed that we should be plagued by Cuomo and DeBlasio?
7
Taxis, limos and delivery trucks were exempt under Bloomberg plan thta Cuomo is trying to revive.
1
Oakwood: 2 questions: 1) How many people would pay both the Port Authority charge to enter Manhattan going east and the proposed charge to travel west across the East river? 2) The cost for the lights (which is a dumb idea) is $200 million, one time. Not each year.
You have it backwards. Consumers will benefit from reduced congestion costs. NYC deliveries are expensive because of time, not tolls.
1
Cars are registered with home addresses. How about starting by charging those who have reasonably convenient access to mass transit and still decide to drive. And yes, cars for hire (yellow cabs, Uber, etc.) too. Just look at how many yellow cabs are on any congested street in Manhattan. Those in Manhattan already have access to mass transit options, if they want the convenience of taking a cab let them pay for it.
1
And a tax rebate for drivers who live in underserved mass transit areas? Don't like the big brother aspect. You basically have to spy on people to see where they go the way Uber does.
For many years yellow cabs have been subsidizing the MTA by means of a 50 cent surcharge each time the meter is turned on.
Although I don't have the misfortune to live in New York, I must say that New York is slowly destroying itself. All the money that people who live in the metropolitan area have to pay for taxes, tolls, rent, etc. gives them less money to sustain the economy. I remember a friend of mine once telling me that one of the biggest contributors to the City's coffers was UPS. Legions of traffic ticket writers walked up and down the streets handing out tickets for double parking, or parking in no parking zones. If you've ever been to the "Center of the Universe" you know that every street (save some residential areas) prohibit parking or standing 24 hours per day.
UPS of course had a solution: they simply increased the shipping rates for packages coming into or leaving the City. Problem solved, right?
UPS of course had a solution: they simply increased the shipping rates for packages coming into or leaving the City. Problem solved, right?
6
Stop taxing those outside of NYC for the subway. The riders need to pay for the use of the subway along with the New York employers, who get a huge benefit for their employees. They should not get a free ride off of other commuters. NYC doesn't have the infrastructure to push more people to the trains and buses to fix a subway system that has long needed repairs.
5
Free ride? They pay $2.75 each way, Ace.
In what world are NYC residents not already paying for the subway/transit system?
I drive in Queens, I work part-time as a taxi driver, and also in my personal car, I also ride a bicycle every day, and of course I'm a pedestrian.
The car driving culture in NYC has long been way too aggressive, this has left many people hurt, and giving drivers a sense of impunity.
It's time we keep using Vision Zero and add to it by substantially reducing vehicle traffic and adding public transit.
A congestion fee in midtown makes sense, and it will fund the MTA.
The car driving culture in NYC has long been way too aggressive, this has left many people hurt, and giving drivers a sense of impunity.
It's time we keep using Vision Zero and add to it by substantially reducing vehicle traffic and adding public transit.
A congestion fee in midtown makes sense, and it will fund the MTA.
3
The bicycle culture is also dangerous : Lack of enforcement has resulted in serious pedestrian injures including brain damage from head trauma when folks are struck by bycycles coming from all compass point in violation of the traffic rules. The Brooklyn Bridge is so bad that GEICO's geko was almost killed by a cyclist while doing a commercial!
3
Indeed it's the byciclists that are doing the only right thing i.e. to not drive a vehicle and they are the ones that often are paying the ultimate price by being killed by cars.
Bycicles need to be given more space so they don't have to resort to pedestrian zones to keep themselves safe.
Bycicles need to be given more space so they don't have to resort to pedestrian zones to keep themselves safe.
1
Want to make bicycling safer in NYC? The city should mandate that all bicycles be equipped with both front and rear lights. Take a look at the bicycles riding by and do a count. Easily half of them do not have any lights at all, thus rendering their riders close to invisible after dark.
Any funding model should include contributions from all variables that make up the problem. For example, the previous discussion has mentioned population density, but not proposed funding related to it. For example, additional taxes could be imposed on those who increase the number of housing units, either by remodeling or new construction through increases on fees such as building inspection permits.
Also, as a former New. Yorker, it is not clear to me why Albany has to approve a city tax.
Also, as a former New. Yorker, it is not clear to me why Albany has to approve a city tax.
3
But if there are fewer cars won't more people take the subway?
4
Yes
Has it ever crossed any politician's mind to look more closely at the efficiency of MTA workers and OT payments? It seems fairly logical to examine internal expenses and labor costs to see where savings could be had. I wish the Yankees had pitching that could throw as well as the city throws money at "problems" without proper internal audits!
36
I concur.
The MTA is a pension and benefit organization operating a Transit System and not a Transit System that provides a pension and other benefits to its employees.
That's the problem.
The MTA is a pension and benefit organization operating a Transit System and not a Transit System that provides a pension and other benefits to its employees.
That's the problem.
6
Data to support you feeling?
50 years of first hand experience riding the rails.
Cuomo's plan costs, fees and taxes the working class people. De Blasio's plan taxes the super-rich.
Which is more just and better for our economy?
Cuomo's plan is not progressive.
Which is more just and better for our economy?
Cuomo's plan is not progressive.
5
Both would be nice, but having that the tax on the super-rich doesn't decrease traffic in Manhattan, I'd like both, there's no reason why the East River bridges should be free, it's insane, and it creates too much traffic. I'm not a fan of Cuomo but I think this is a great idea that Bloomberg should have gotten through before.
3
Do you want to compare the average income of people that own cars and drive into midtown, versus people that take the subway?
It won't help your argument.
It won't help your argument.
1
Cuomo acts like he has unlimited funds, which of course he does, just keep soaking the public. Use the funds he wants for his shiny new lights on the bridges to fix the infrastructure, rather than reaching once again into the publics' pockets.
3
The funds for the lights (which is a dumb idea) won't cover one percent of the money needed for the repairs. Read the papers before you post.
Instead of this lunatic idea which will make traffic horrendous on the brooklyn and queens side of bridges who have no room for tolls - they were never built with tolls in mind and have small street lead-ins on both sides, how about not spending so many billions of dollars each year educating, feeding, clothing, housing and offering free medical care for illegal aliens?
NYC/NYS spends almost FIVE BILLION DOLLARS PER YEAR to educate illegal alien children, think of how much better the NYC subway would be were those funds to be directed to it instead of buying votes for the atrocious democratic party?
Oh but that's right, I'm a "racist" for even raising the subject...and we can't do anything that prevents the democratic party from buying more votes with our tax dollars, importing so much of central/south america to do so.
NYC/NYS spends almost FIVE BILLION DOLLARS PER YEAR to educate illegal alien children, think of how much better the NYC subway would be were those funds to be directed to it instead of buying votes for the atrocious democratic party?
Oh but that's right, I'm a "racist" for even raising the subject...and we can't do anything that prevents the democratic party from buying more votes with our tax dollars, importing so much of central/south america to do so.
16
Education for "illegal alien children" is a red herring here. Stay on track.
Also, in case you haven't noticed, MTA B&T (under Cuomo's direction, btw) just instituted cashless tolling on all of it's bridges and tunnels. So, it stands to reason that that would be way to go is tolls are instituted on the East River Bridges and for cars entering the CBD at 60th Street. No need of bulky toll plazas of yore, just cameras and sensors above the roadway to capture your E-Z Pass (or license plate, if you don't have one).
Also, in case you haven't noticed, MTA B&T (under Cuomo's direction, btw) just instituted cashless tolling on all of it's bridges and tunnels. So, it stands to reason that that would be way to go is tolls are instituted on the East River Bridges and for cars entering the CBD at 60th Street. No need of bulky toll plazas of yore, just cameras and sensors above the roadway to capture your E-Z Pass (or license plate, if you don't have one).
Bob Jones - toll booths are being removed everywhere else. Why would you possibly think thy would put them there????
1
In this era of completely electronic toll and violation ticketing systems, continuing to raise the bloody shirt of " no room for toll plazas" at the currently free bridges, should be seen for what it is: totally agenda driven claptrap and nonsense!
I live uptown and i'm fortunate enough to own a car and have a garage space. I rarely use my car and when I do it's usually a short trip to haul groceries or some other item that would be really cumbersome on a bus or subway.
I support the idea of congestion pricing tax. No one likes new taxes, but I use the subway every day and for work and bear the burden of its constant breakdowns.
But I also know that some of my fellow New Yorkers in Queens and Brooklyn don't have easy subway access, so I hope congestion pricing would give them more leeway than us Manhattanites.
It's also critical that any dedicated revenue stream for the subways be put in a legislative lock box.
I remember when the state lottery money was supposed to improve public education. Then the legislature simply subtracted the amount of lottery money they previously allocated for schools from the budget and spent that money elsewhere. So we had no new net increase. This can't happen again with money dedicated for public transportation, but it will if we aren't careful.
I support the idea of congestion pricing tax. No one likes new taxes, but I use the subway every day and for work and bear the burden of its constant breakdowns.
But I also know that some of my fellow New Yorkers in Queens and Brooklyn don't have easy subway access, so I hope congestion pricing would give them more leeway than us Manhattanites.
It's also critical that any dedicated revenue stream for the subways be put in a legislative lock box.
I remember when the state lottery money was supposed to improve public education. Then the legislature simply subtracted the amount of lottery money they previously allocated for schools from the budget and spent that money elsewhere. So we had no new net increase. This can't happen again with money dedicated for public transportation, but it will if we aren't careful.
58
Cuomo has been taking money away from the MTA for years, but now since things are so bad, he can take credit for this.
I agree with you, and I live in Queens, and I think that we should pay access to Manhattan in all crossings.
I agree with you, and I live in Queens, and I think that we should pay access to Manhattan in all crossings.
You know the politicians will spend it elsewhere. Where's the money that was supposed to maintain the subways?
It's been the Holy Grail since Lindsay was mayor. How to collect tolls on the East River bridges considering that the bridges don't have space for toll plazas ?
The new EZ Pass readers at The Midtown and Brooklyn/ Battery tunnels and the Marine Park and Alexander Hamilton Bridges show how fast they can be constructed and efficiently the state can start collecting tolls. The East River bridges are certainly next up. The city and state have been salivating over them for fifty or sixty years.
Of course, today the MTA collects north of 15.7 billion dollars annually and where is the accounting and accountability? $15.7 billion collected and there's outdated equipment failing in your system? How is this possible?
So, now more people will abandon the idea of driving in to the City and in favor of what? The subways and busses cannot handle their volumes today!
More money is the answer? It always seems to be.
The new EZ Pass readers at The Midtown and Brooklyn/ Battery tunnels and the Marine Park and Alexander Hamilton Bridges show how fast they can be constructed and efficiently the state can start collecting tolls. The East River bridges are certainly next up. The city and state have been salivating over them for fifty or sixty years.
Of course, today the MTA collects north of 15.7 billion dollars annually and where is the accounting and accountability? $15.7 billion collected and there's outdated equipment failing in your system? How is this possible?
So, now more people will abandon the idea of driving in to the City and in favor of what? The subways and busses cannot handle their volumes today!
More money is the answer? It always seems to be.
19
A simple solution: make more room for bicycles. Add paths and protected bike lanes. Make it easier to travel by bike to Manhattan, and inside Manhattan. This doesn't require more infrastructure spending and higher taxes.
5
You need both, we can do congestion pricing and add bike lanes.
2
Eddie B:
But would you pay a rush hour fee to use the Belt Parkway, or some other highway in Queens?
But would you pay a rush hour fee to use the Belt Parkway, or some other highway in Queens?
I am a biker. The vast majority of commuters either do not ride bikes, or are uncomfortable riding them to work, even with bike lanes.
I remember when the toll on the Tri-Borough Bridge was 5 cents. On the George Washington Bridge it was the same, for a while and I think the Bronx Whitestone Bridge was about the same. I don't recall the tolls for the tunnels or the Brooklyn Bridge. Almost forgot, the subway was a dime and the bus didn't require a mortgage against the house either.
Ok, I admit, that was many thousands of years ago when Baby Boomers were just beginning to arrive. There was no toll at the gate for that but ultimately there was a price for their arrival. We're still paying it.
Now some of you may remember when it was fun to pay the nickel and our parents or grandparents would let us roll down the window to reach out and give the nickel to the toll taker. While on the subway they'd tell us to slip us under the turn stile to avoid paying the dime. Life was tough back then. Our folks had to find ways to save money. Not going to Astoria or to Fort Lee was one way.
Somehow back then, before the Cross Bronx Expressway and the Thruway we managed to get around. I think I remember gas being only about 19 cents a gallon too.
So, here we are today. You know what? I don't know how we got here. Life is faster but traffic slower and more congested and the toll is about to be paid...and paid...and paid. The new number is $1.47 billion but only $1.1 billion will go to public transit.
We need a Moses to lead us out of the wilderness to cross the river Hudson,and the East River, and a few other waterways.
Ok, I admit, that was many thousands of years ago when Baby Boomers were just beginning to arrive. There was no toll at the gate for that but ultimately there was a price for their arrival. We're still paying it.
Now some of you may remember when it was fun to pay the nickel and our parents or grandparents would let us roll down the window to reach out and give the nickel to the toll taker. While on the subway they'd tell us to slip us under the turn stile to avoid paying the dime. Life was tough back then. Our folks had to find ways to save money. Not going to Astoria or to Fort Lee was one way.
Somehow back then, before the Cross Bronx Expressway and the Thruway we managed to get around. I think I remember gas being only about 19 cents a gallon too.
So, here we are today. You know what? I don't know how we got here. Life is faster but traffic slower and more congested and the toll is about to be paid...and paid...and paid. The new number is $1.47 billion but only $1.1 billion will go to public transit.
We need a Moses to lead us out of the wilderness to cross the river Hudson,and the East River, and a few other waterways.
2
Moses got us into this wilderness. He refused to make accomodations for mass transit. Refused to construct Whitestone bridge to handle trains. Every road he ever built was congested within a few years of construction. The Cross Bronx Expressway eviscerated the South Bronx and led to it's decline. Same for his "Urban renewal" in downtown Brooklyn. God help us for another Robert Moses. READ THE POWERBROKER
5
Yes, I read the Power Broker. I said we got around before the Cross Bronx Exp. It should never have been built. Also, I said we need a Moses, not Robert Moses. I'll be more clear next time. I also condemn white supremacy and white supremacists.
1
I think the real problem was making tolls into revenue sources rather than being used for the original purpose, which was to pay of the bonds used to build said highway and/or crossing. Ever since Moses did it that way, tolls were getting constantly hiked even though so many places were long paid off. The claim for the hikes were originally to claim that they would maintain whatever they were on, but were later found out to be going elsewhere such as pet projects. If anything, I feel that all existing tolls should have been removed decades ago once they have been paid off while having taxes for infrastructure take over on that. IMO, it feels insane to pay a toll to go from on borough to the other or in some cases within the same borough such as the bridges that connect the Roackaways and Broad Channel to the rest of Queens. As a matter of fact, the northeast as a whole as among the highest in tolls yet the roads are still in bad shape, which makes me wonder where is the revenue from them really going to. Meanwhile, the southern states have a low toll and their roads and crossings are good shape, which makes me feel that nobody is misusing them. I guess for here, there can only be support for tolls as long those who back them will benefit from them otherwise they will oppose them. Nevertheless, tolling has always felt as a regressive idea and this goes all the way back to the Middle Ages when only those who could afford them had freedom of movement.
1
Governor Cuomo think of all the cities and towns throughout the State of New York where you can increase peoples' taxes to help pay for repairs on a subway system they don't use either. Perhaps you can makes "tax deals" with the Democratic governors of several contiguous states to have them tax their residents for NYC subway repairs and then send you the money. Of course so many NYT readers will think this redistribution of wealth is FAIR!
4
How does congestion pricing in NYC affect people taxes upstate?
Funny how we have gotten to a place that anything to pay for something is wrong. There are too many cars, trucks and Ubers in the city at the same time. If they can structure this properly and make sure politicians don't steal the money like Social Security it can be a great stream. Nothing can help the city / suburbs of NYC more than great transit infrastructure!!
I drive in all the time and also take mass transit - traffic is worse than ever, Metro North is Always late and the subways are a mess.
Time to stop blaming immigrants, politicians etc and get the right people to do it right!
Funny how we have gotten to a place that anything to pay for something is wrong. There are too many cars, trucks and Ubers in the city at the same time. If they can structure this properly and make sure politicians don't steal the money like Social Security it can be a great stream. Nothing can help the city / suburbs of NYC more than great transit infrastructure!!
I drive in all the time and also take mass transit - traffic is worse than ever, Metro North is Always late and the subways are a mess.
Time to stop blaming immigrants, politicians etc and get the right people to do it right!
2
NYC gives more to Albany in tax revenue than we get back - about $4.1 billion, according to the Rockefeller Institute. Upstate takes more than what they put in. So yeah, upstate may not use the subway, but you live off the City's tax payments to Albany, which comes from all the economic activity that occurs here - which depends on a reliable mass transit system. Where the City goes (financially), Albany and the rest of the state does too - whether you like it or not.
1
Brian - Your solution? Should NYC stop sending tax payments to Albany? Should Albany tax up-state residents more to help NYC's subway?
Tolls should be the same as a a subway ride ($2.75 per passenger)if enacted;otherwise it result in a rise of prices for all goods and services, especially food. London's example has simply created great inequality and a city whose costs for goods and services far exceeds that of NYC.
3
You're exactly right about that. Whenever new tolls or taxes or imposed, the powers that be just think that those affected will just willingly absorb those costs, which is a fools assumption. Make no mistake about it; those costs will just be passed on to the consumer. Get ready for higher grocery costs and costs for just about anything. Be careful what you wish for.
1
It seems to me that the fares need to be raised so that they cover the true cost of a subway/bus ride. Drivers from Orange/Rockland counties who must commute to work (and already pay 15 dollars for the George Washington Bridge) should not be forced to further subsidize NYC subway/bus fares..
3
Every commuter on the subway is a commuter who's not on the road. Anyone who drives a car into Manhattan should be thankful to subway riders; if people on the subway switched to cars, the congestion would get even more hellish and your commute time would go up.
And congestion pricing is an attempt at making drivers pay the true cost of driving, by forcing drivers to internalize the cost they impose on other drivers by taking up space on the road and making everyone else's drive marginally slower.
And congestion pricing is an attempt at making drivers pay the true cost of driving, by forcing drivers to internalize the cost they impose on other drivers by taking up space on the road and making everyone else's drive marginally slower.
1
And by that argument why should any part of taxes paid by those living in NYC pay for highways in Rockland County?
1
Finally! If only this had happened years ago.... It should not cost more to take MetroNorth rail into Manhattan than driving.
3
Privatize it.
4
This transportation disaster did not just happen overnight.
This is the result of years of abject neglect by our incompetent, vain elected officials who clearly do not belong in their jobs.
Right now the faces of these failures are Cuomo and DeBlasio and while I'm satisfied to put the blame on these two clowns, in truth their predecessors are equally to blame.
This is the result of years of abject neglect by our incompetent, vain elected officials who clearly do not belong in their jobs.
Right now the faces of these failures are Cuomo and DeBlasio and while I'm satisfied to put the blame on these two clowns, in truth their predecessors are equally to blame.
10
No. Bloomberg tried to get this implemented years ago. He saw what was coming. Corrupt Sheldon Silver got it killed in Albany.
Yes the city's subways are in crisis. So the Governor wants to do something about traffic. Unfortunately, the solutions proposed for this will do nothing but exacerbate the overcrowded transit system and increase costs across the board for goods brought into the city by truck.
It's said that congestion pricing and instituting new tolls on bridges may reduce traffic, but it will only do so by imposing regressive fees on those who can't afford them. What isn't mentioned is that those people will be forced to use the already overcrowded mass transit system. So much for a solution to that problem. In addition, companies that use trucks to deliver freight, which can't simply use mass transit, will pass on this enormous new cost to the rest of us. (Is there anyone sentient who doesn't think that the initial $5.54 toll and $15/day congestion price won't rise exponentially?)
But one group will benefit enormously: millionaires. They will not only be spared a modest tax (opposed by their Republican protectors, anyway), but their commute and transit within the city will be that much easier, as chauffeur-driven vehicles sail through a city where a good percentage of all those people in cars driven by the riff-raff will have been magically disappeared somewhere.
But think of the all revenue and concomitant corruption to be had! Mmmmmmm....
It's said that congestion pricing and instituting new tolls on bridges may reduce traffic, but it will only do so by imposing regressive fees on those who can't afford them. What isn't mentioned is that those people will be forced to use the already overcrowded mass transit system. So much for a solution to that problem. In addition, companies that use trucks to deliver freight, which can't simply use mass transit, will pass on this enormous new cost to the rest of us. (Is there anyone sentient who doesn't think that the initial $5.54 toll and $15/day congestion price won't rise exponentially?)
But one group will benefit enormously: millionaires. They will not only be spared a modest tax (opposed by their Republican protectors, anyway), but their commute and transit within the city will be that much easier, as chauffeur-driven vehicles sail through a city where a good percentage of all those people in cars driven by the riff-raff will have been magically disappeared somewhere.
But think of the all revenue and concomitant corruption to be had! Mmmmmmm....
8
If you can afford to drive in Manhattan and park - then you are not poor!! If you can own a car in NYC you are not poor!!! An actually - delivery trucks will save time if there is less traffic. Or they will deliver off hours. Plus those charges can be written off as business expenses. I work in a company who does just that. Faster is better. You can make more deliveries!!!
2
If the chauffeur-driven millionaires benefit from reduced congestion, then so too will the companies that rely on trucks to deliver freight. Truck drivers are paid while they are sitting in traffic, so the cost of a delivery will decrease if the commute time decreases. (The reduced fuel consumption will help to lower the cost, too.) Whether this will offset the cost of the tolls, it's hard to predict, but it's wrong to ignore the benefit that comes with reduced congestion.
1
How about we agree that any congestion pricing plan or raise on taxes to benefit an MTA entity be linked to a requirement for the Governor to open up the MTA books for independent fiscal audit on an annual basis? Every governor of this state has enjoyed the black book setup that is the MTA and how many times have we heard about their dire straits only to be shown as liars when millions of dollars are discovered at the last minute, always chalked up to an oops moment?
5
Congestion pricing makes sense in other service economies (airline ticket pricing, Uber, boutique medical services) so why not try it? Another idea might be to increase vehicle registration fees (based on miles driven per year or county of residence) in an effort to, like all of this, either reduce usage or increase taxes on the price of driving. Maybe the price of pubic trans needs to come down rather than go up - render it nearly idiotic not to get on public transportation. A round trip Metro North ticket for my family from White Plains to GCT costs so much friends often drive into the city and drive around looking for a parking space on Saturday or Wednesday afternoon rather than get on the train! Neglect, delays, accidents, fires, buses that crawl...this is no way for a great city to do things. This whole thing reminds me of the current climate change situation we're in...we cannot avoid realities for decades then wake up and think a 500 million dollar public policy debate will solve our problems...we must act now, act decisively and stop ignoring the obvious!
what will happen when I take a cab or Uber across the $5 barrier? is my $10 cab fare going to $15?? What WILL happen is rather than drive, folks will now flood mass transit resulting in even more horrible crowds on our subways and buses. In addition to the useless "make work" individuals with flashlights signaling the conductor that (as he can surly see on his own) it's safe to close the doors, we'll have, as they do in Japan, "pushers" who cram folks into already overpacked subway cars like sardines in a can
3
Cuomo is a whining incompetent.
Please somebody good please run against him.
It's as simple as ABC, Anybody But Cuomo!
Maybe we'll let his successor name a bridge after her or his own daddy.
Please somebody good please run against him.
It's as simple as ABC, Anybody But Cuomo!
Maybe we'll let his successor name a bridge after her or his own daddy.
4
And how about the masters of the universe that live in Manhattan? What toll will their black town cars pay as they line up at Goldman Sachs obstructing traffic? Instead, charge me as I drive my 80 year old father from a working class neighborhood in Brooklyn to Sloan for his cancer treatments.
87
Exactly. How about taxing the livery companies $50.00 per mile driven and $50.00 per trip. I am sure they will pass this on to the customers. Any drivers who lose their jobs can drive buses, for as Lou from Rego Park has mentioned, additional mass transit must be in place first.
amen.
Be reasonable. You cannot get rid of the rich. They make many wonderful things available in NYC because they work and live in the city and pay higher taxes than any where else. MSKCC you mention-G-d bless them. They take care of senior people and treat them beautifully-the best cancer center in the world. You must think about all the things going on in NYC, especially the mix of people- poor and rich. One thing supports another. Bloomberg's idea was always spectacular. That man didn't get there from being short sided. Let us not criticize, let us do the right thing and if the working class has to contribute a bit that is the right thing.
Yet another reason to avoid Manhattan.
5
I have not read any studies of what new tolls on East River crossings will mean for the neighborhoods adjacent to these bridges. Will drivers from distant neighborhoods without too public transit drive and park near Brooklyn and Queens subway stops that are close to Manhattan? And what would this mean for congestion and the limited parking in those mainly residential neighborhoods?
1
Should read "without good public transit"
The trouble is that every time the Governor and Albany legislators create these types of funds with new tolls and taxes on drivers, the monies are used for something else. The highways around the city are clogged with people driving to work because Albany has never lived up to their promises and Mayors in New York City continue to allow uncurtailed development, packing more and more people into the city. The highways from upstate leading to the city are jammed as well. Until all of it is addressed holistically, nothing is going to change.
9
"The trouble is that every time the Governor and Albany legislators create these types of funds with new tolls and taxes on drivers, the monies are used for something else."
Yeah like salaries.
Yeah like salaries.
1
Here we go again. Soak the immoral driving public even more to subsidize the subways. Drivers already do that through the outrageous bridge and tunnel tolls which have almost nothing to do with operating the bridges and tunnels. It is an unfair funneling of lots of money from people who do not use the subways to people who do.
Those who drive do so because public transportation is not convenient in every part of the tri-state region, nor even in every part of the City. They drive out of necessity.
Want to cut traffic down in Manhattan? That's easy if the Governor and Mayor had any courage. Stop the free parking for police, city workers, teachers and doctors for openers. Thousands of free parking places are provided for these and other categories of privileged drivers, all of whom are attracted to drive into Manhattan on a daily basis.
Those who drive do so because public transportation is not convenient in every part of the tri-state region, nor even in every part of the City. They drive out of necessity.
Want to cut traffic down in Manhattan? That's easy if the Governor and Mayor had any courage. Stop the free parking for police, city workers, teachers and doctors for openers. Thousands of free parking places are provided for these and other categories of privileged drivers, all of whom are attracted to drive into Manhattan on a daily basis.
5
Did you not read the article? The proposal involves putting tolls on the Brooklyn/Manhattan bridges and REDUCING THEM on the other toll bridges (Verizano, Throggs Neck, etc)
2
Let me see if I understand. De Blasio wishes to tax the people who generally do not use the subways in order to fix the subways for those who do use the subways. Why doesn't the fare cover the cost of repairs?
Are the rich receiving equal protection of the laws as specified in the 14 th Amendment?
Are the rich receiving equal protection of the laws as specified in the 14 th Amendment?
5
Car people think they do not benefit from the subways but they do.
Just imagine the traffic jam encircling you if the hundreds of thousands of people commuting via public transportation were commuting, like you, in individual cars
Just imagine the traffic jam encircling you if the hundreds of thousands of people commuting via public transportation were commuting, like you, in individual cars
5
The rich receive far more than an equitable share of the prosperity of New York. It is way past time for those who receive an inordinately large share of the society's output to shoulder a proportionately appropriate share of its maintenance.
1
Equal protection for the rich! Now there's a winning political slogan.
Full disclosure: I'm a mass transit rider without a car. While congestion pricing might be a good idea, I''m concerned about the consequences. The good news is that it would lower traffic congestion and bring in additional revenues for mass transit. The bad news is that it would increase the number of bus and subway riders on an already over congested system. Before any congestion pricing system goes into affect, there must be measures to deal with increased ridership.
62
It takes money to increase service. Frankly - those who drive already will most likely keep driving. Let them pay. People pay to go between Brooklyn and Staten Island and Queens and The Bronx. Manhattan is more crowded. Keeping it free from Brooklyn and Queens makes no sense. In the rest of the world it would be the exact opposite. Manhattan would be charged more.
1
With less congestion the buses would be able to run far more efficiently and carry more people, and as a result more people would use buses and then more buses could be implemented. An articulated bus has about 64 seats, so it can probably hold at least 80 or 90 passengers. Tell me, what takes up more space, 80 cars holding a single passenger (cab driver doesn't count) or one articulated bus?
Unless there is a plan to fix capacity on mass transit right now, the problem will just go from bad to worse especially if more will be using it just to avoid paying the fee for congestion pricing.
This subways are packed to capacity and adding more trains isn't a solution. So let's enact congestion pricing in order to force even more passengers into those trains. Great logic. It sounds like just another tax cut for the city's wealthiest citizens on the UES who would not have to pay, despite those streets being some of the most congested. Not only that, they would even get a toll reduction on the RFK Bridge for their weekend trips to the Hampton's. This has always been nothing but an elitist scheme to tax the lower middle and working class. But Andy knows where his bread is buttered.
19
Driving is already expensive. People who do so are not suddenly going to take the train.
1
Manhattan drivers should also pay their fair share. I suggest removing the lower parking tax on monthly parking for them. They will benefit from decreased traffic and better subways most, and should contribute also.
The idea for congestion pricing was hated then and it will be continued to be hated again. The reason why it keeps on losing is because it's not just seen as a regressive tax for the lower income, but also as a punishment to those to those living in areas who have very little viable alternatives to driving. In reality, we motorists already pay a lot to fund public transportation through the yearly taxes, fees, and tolls we pay. Keep in mind that the MTA is funded by all of downstate NY, not just NYC itself yet there isn't that great of transit outside the city despite that. Another thing is that transit deserts do exist within NYC itself. Also, there is a fear that many motorists will use places just outside the zone as parking lots just avoid paying for it as that was done originally in London, the very first city in the world to introduce congestion pricing even though it's seen as a failure there. Until commuter trains and buses as well as special express buses have better schedules to help those who don't have regular work schedules, many will have to resort to driving to getting around more efficiently. More importantly, I would like to have the MTA audited to see where there current revenues are going to first before even thinking of placing this idea as well as claiming that they have to raise their existing revenues through hiking fares and tolls. Maybe if they cracked down more on fare beaters, they wouldn't even need to resort to this.
23
London was not the first city in the world to introduce congestion charging - it was up and running in Singapore more than a decade before London started. Singapore traffic flow is just fine - and the subway there beats NYC's hands down.
2
What lower income people drive to work in Manhattan???? I'm sorry but that's not reality. Lower income people already take te bus and train.
1
I don't entirely disagree with you, but you're mistaken on the London plan, London is able to afford many improvements on their tube, and invest in their infrastructure even recently building new lines like the "CrossRail".
In regards to people parking near the zone, that's total nonsense, I dare you to find good parking spots now in the upper west side, and the toll is not that much that people are willing to sacrifice them having to park and finding another way to get to their final destination.
Finally, the people that would benefit the most are those from transit deserts and working class people. Driving a car in NY, or any big city, is a luxury and it should be priced that way.
In regards to people parking near the zone, that's total nonsense, I dare you to find good parking spots now in the upper west side, and the toll is not that much that people are willing to sacrifice them having to park and finding another way to get to their final destination.
Finally, the people that would benefit the most are those from transit deserts and working class people. Driving a car in NY, or any big city, is a luxury and it should be priced that way.
2
If you can afford to own a car, drive it into Manhattan and pay an outrageous monthly garage fee, you can afford an additional daily $5.54. The plan makes total sense.
116
@Erik: Some people own cars that they garage in other boroughs, where, when they need their car, they have to take public transportation to get the car. Not everyone can afford "outrageous monthly garage fees".
4
excuse me, but what are you talking about? you assume that people driving cars into manhattan all have garage spaces? they're just driving in for leisure? most are working people that can barely afford to keep their work trucks on the road as it is. no, they don't have garage space, they park on the street like most working people do. you've outed yourself as a booksmart liberal who's never worked a day in your life.
1
The MoveNY plan sounds like it could cost more than $5.54, especially if you get charged for crossing 60th Street northbound or southbound. If you commute into Manhattan over the Triboro, for example, you'll pay that toll twice (coming and going) and the 60th Street toll twice (coming and going). And they'd better include the Willis Avenue bridge in the scheme - if that is the only free entry into and out of the city, you can bet that route will get overwhelmed with traffic. The plan needs some clarification.
1
"Congestion pricing" is horsefeathers, because the congestion WAS DELIBERATELY CAUSED by NYC GOVERNMENT. Existing congestion is due to Bloomberg's small-minded retaliation for not getting his congestion pricing approved when he was mayor - instead, he went hell-for-leather on bike lanes.
So, take Manhattan's population, and now ADD a lot of people to that due to new condo/rental construction. You now need MORE capacity for transportation of all kinds and DELIVERIES (b/c we're on an island and everything gets brought in by TRUCK, and BTW, hello, Amazon!).
Next, remove many lanes of the avenues/streets from use by trucks/taxis/cars by creating bike lanes, "buffer" lanes, and bus lanes. Create places where it's nearly impossible to legally get out of a taxi at the curb. Also take out the ability to drive a bus, car, truck or taxi on Broadway from 59th St. to Union Square. NOW you have massive congestion, thanks entirely to NYC administration's actions - and the government's answer to that is that all of us who are paying taxes to live in NYC need to suddenly pay MORE to get around.
More people needing more deliveries, after removing about 30-40% of lane space from the public streets/avenues will get you exactly what we're experiencing in congestion.
THANKS FOR NOTHING, CUOMO. And thanks for CONGESTION, Bloomberg & De Blasio!
So, take Manhattan's population, and now ADD a lot of people to that due to new condo/rental construction. You now need MORE capacity for transportation of all kinds and DELIVERIES (b/c we're on an island and everything gets brought in by TRUCK, and BTW, hello, Amazon!).
Next, remove many lanes of the avenues/streets from use by trucks/taxis/cars by creating bike lanes, "buffer" lanes, and bus lanes. Create places where it's nearly impossible to legally get out of a taxi at the curb. Also take out the ability to drive a bus, car, truck or taxi on Broadway from 59th St. to Union Square. NOW you have massive congestion, thanks entirely to NYC administration's actions - and the government's answer to that is that all of us who are paying taxes to live in NYC need to suddenly pay MORE to get around.
More people needing more deliveries, after removing about 30-40% of lane space from the public streets/avenues will get you exactly what we're experiencing in congestion.
THANKS FOR NOTHING, CUOMO. And thanks for CONGESTION, Bloomberg & De Blasio!
35
Lol @ blaming Bloomberg and De Blasio for congestion like this city doesn't have a century-plus long history of building more and more roads to the sole benefit of the minority who drives while watching those roads do nothing to ease congestion or benefit the greater public.
More lanes does not mean less traffic.
You need to incentivize people to take efficient modes of transportation -- walking, biking, subways, buses, trains, etc. -- and disincentivize people from taking inefficient modes of transportation like cars.
Congestion pricing does just that. It is *exactly* what this city needs.
More lanes does not mean less traffic.
You need to incentivize people to take efficient modes of transportation -- walking, biking, subways, buses, trains, etc. -- and disincentivize people from taking inefficient modes of transportation like cars.
Congestion pricing does just that. It is *exactly* what this city needs.
5
Actually, bike lanes reduce congestion because they remove (not displace) drivers from the street. Same thing for bus lanes, too. I don't get why you're so worked up -- who honestly prefers to travel Manhattan by car? And keep in mind that that 6 feet of bike lane is actually reclaimed space from a time (pre1920s) when the street belonged to everyone, not just cars.
Do yourself a favor: hop on a bike, pedal around on the easy, flat Manhattan terrain, and then let's see if you still feel the need to type in all-caps. ;)
Do yourself a favor: hop on a bike, pedal around on the easy, flat Manhattan terrain, and then let's see if you still feel the need to type in all-caps. ;)
1
Let me guess......congestion pricing is now on the table so Cuomo doesn't have to upset his wealthy donors by raising their taxes. After all, Cuomo has delusions that he might be our next president. It costs over a billion dollars to run for president. Who will pay for that?
While Republicans need to purge their party of neo-fascists and sociopaths, Democrats have to purge their party of career opportunists like Cuomo. Do we really need more people in our government protecting the interests of the wealthy? Between both parties, I'd say the rich are already well-represented. Enough.
While Republicans need to purge their party of neo-fascists and sociopaths, Democrats have to purge their party of career opportunists like Cuomo. Do we really need more people in our government protecting the interests of the wealthy? Between both parties, I'd say the rich are already well-represented. Enough.
55
The top earners in New York City pay more than 50% of their income in Federal, State and Local taxes (more than almost all socialist European countries the left loves to admire). How much do you pay?
7
The finances of the MTA should be analyzed and printed in this journal of record. Administrative salaries, benefits, would be highlighted. No one ever seems to question where the additional money goes when fares are increased.
Look to the MTA itself as one source of revenue.
And hold those accountable to the lack of maintenance, accountable.
Look to the MTA itself as one source of revenue.
And hold those accountable to the lack of maintenance, accountable.
133
Just look at the staff increases at the MTA toll booths. I remember the days when you had toll collectors and just a few police. Now it looks like a staff of hundreds even with EZ-Pass lanes.
9
I also remember the occasional article in Newsday about the highest paid state workers and seeing the toll collectors topping the list with healthy six figure salaries because of overtime and union rules.
Besides talking about congestion pricing, how about eliminating all of the outdated union rules that inflate the salaries of MTA workers.
Besides talking about congestion pricing, how about eliminating all of the outdated union rules that inflate the salaries of MTA workers.
10
I agree, starting with Joe Lhota. The man is being paid to work at NYULMC
and now has an MTA job? I presume he is being paid for the 2nd job as well?
I also agree that a congestion tax makes sense. Indeed, anyone who lives in Manhattan and has a car should be taxed for the priviledge of driving on the streets in the city.
and now has an MTA job? I presume he is being paid for the 2nd job as well?
I also agree that a congestion tax makes sense. Indeed, anyone who lives in Manhattan and has a car should be taxed for the priviledge of driving on the streets in the city.
Why not a lottery specifically for the subways? i.e. not the entire MTA It should be stipulated that neither Albany nor NYC could "re-direct" one single penny away from infrastructure repairs, e.g. not to pensions.
8
Both Coumo and DeBlasio are cut from the same cloth, probably different ends, but nevertheless the same. Both are running with populist themes, blame everyone but themselves for not taking care of business. the city collects absurd amounts of money for bridges and tunnels already, and I see no evidence of any use of funds go to better roads, so to think we will buy into these new " congestion " charges because it will help is another political promise that will never be kept. Rather funds will be deviated to projects that will better each political position with some type of new entitlement to buy votes.
The congestion, especially in Manhattan is not through some mysterious development , rather due to public transportation that is not reliable and suffers from gross over congestion, leaving many to opt for their own ride, Uber, private cars, taxis, etc. Metro North is slow, sloppy and congested and taking a subway is challenge is spatial relationships.
Additionally, there is the issue of subsidies. the subway ride we all take today is not even priced right. We are not paying the true price, rather a subsidised price. How about these politicians having the courage to say we cannot afford to provide service at current price points, and charge the correct price so that we may have a properly funded public transit that works ?
The congestion, especially in Manhattan is not through some mysterious development , rather due to public transportation that is not reliable and suffers from gross over congestion, leaving many to opt for their own ride, Uber, private cars, taxis, etc. Metro North is slow, sloppy and congested and taking a subway is challenge is spatial relationships.
Additionally, there is the issue of subsidies. the subway ride we all take today is not even priced right. We are not paying the true price, rather a subsidised price. How about these politicians having the courage to say we cannot afford to provide service at current price points, and charge the correct price so that we may have a properly funded public transit that works ?
11
There should be high tolls on all pollution emitting vehicles that enter the city, while electric, zero emissions vehicles should be able to get in for free.
Not only that, but the free charging stations that once lined sidewalks--in the 1870's, ought to be restored, as well.
Not only that, but the free charging stations that once lined sidewalks--in the 1870's, ought to be restored, as well.
26
Free charging stations lining the sidewalks in the 1870's, you mean like feed throughs for the horses? How do comments like this get approved?
3
Electric vehicles cause just as much congestion as gasoline vehicles. The problem is that cars are so space-inefficient.
7
Dave - zero emission vehicles should get a discount but NOT free. They are still adding to congestion! And since they aren't paying gas taxes they are not contributing to maintenance of the wear and tear on roads. So maybe they shouldn't even get a discount at all.
1
It sounds like a person who, say, lives above 60th street in Manhattan and has to make a round trip to Brooklyn (during a congestion period) has pay $11.08 back and forth 60th Street plus $11.08 back and forth across one of the East River bridges for a total of $22.16. People having to get to Brooklyn from NJ using the FDR would experience the same thing unless they used the Lincoln Tunnel and crossed Manhattan or used the GWB and the BQE. Significant, undesirable traffic pattern distortions would be the result.
Would there be a duplicate charge for crossing 60th street and for crossing one of the East River bridges?
Would there be a duplicate charge for crossing 60th street and for crossing one of the East River bridges?
6
You bring up some good points here. The MoveNY prices are not simple tolls, and would in some cases be consolidated / reduced based on your trip. Commercial drivers only pay $5.54 to enter/leave the CBD once per day, no matter how many times they enter or leave it. ALL drivers from the Bronx to Manhattan who take the Triborough Bridge into Manhattan only pay a total of $5.54, not $5.54+$3.04.
This plan actually lowers tolls for many people, and encourages them to use highway bridges (Henry Hudson, RFK), rather than crowding onto local streets (Queensboro, Broadway Bridge). To compensate, non-commercial driving between points that are well-served by transit is discouraged. Both the UES and Brooklyn are both well-served by transit; so yes, that round trip will end up costing more than it does today. However, that driver might find that driving north to 125 St and taking the RFK bridge is both cheaper and faster. Which will help lower congestion in the CBD.
Here is a good detailed guide to the Move NY proposal:
http://nyc.streetsblog.org/2015/02/17/the-complete-guide-to-the-final-mo...
> People having to get to Brooklyn from NJ...
They could avoid all that congestion and extra tolls by using the Verrazzano Narrows Bridge, where today's punitive tolls will go down by 45%. As usual, there is little coordination with a dysfunctional NJ, already saddled with sky-high tolls.
This plan actually lowers tolls for many people, and encourages them to use highway bridges (Henry Hudson, RFK), rather than crowding onto local streets (Queensboro, Broadway Bridge). To compensate, non-commercial driving between points that are well-served by transit is discouraged. Both the UES and Brooklyn are both well-served by transit; so yes, that round trip will end up costing more than it does today. However, that driver might find that driving north to 125 St and taking the RFK bridge is both cheaper and faster. Which will help lower congestion in the CBD.
Here is a good detailed guide to the Move NY proposal:
http://nyc.streetsblog.org/2015/02/17/the-complete-guide-to-the-final-mo...
> People having to get to Brooklyn from NJ...
They could avoid all that congestion and extra tolls by using the Verrazzano Narrows Bridge, where today's punitive tolls will go down by 45%. As usual, there is little coordination with a dysfunctional NJ, already saddled with sky-high tolls.
5
It's absurd to talk about driving from the Upper East Side to Brooklyn. The area is well served by the 4, 5 and 6 lines. I live in Turtle Bay, just below E 60th St. and it takes me about a half an hour to get to downtown Brooklyn from Grand Central on the 4 train.
The State and the City, according to our state controller who sends me email every weekend touting his accomplishments, have huge surpluses. Use the surpluses to fix the transportation systems.
The government has no business holding on to the exorbitant surpluses. They are not corporations. If they were they'd be paying dividends.
The government has no business holding on to the exorbitant surpluses. They are not corporations. If they were they'd be paying dividends.
1
And what happens when the surpluses are all spent?
1
Andrew cup o was quoted as saying:
“Sometimes,” he said, “society needs a wake-up call that readjusts their priorities.”
He might be regretting that statementbif the electorate in New York State applies that rhetoric to his 2018 gubernatorial campaign!
“Sometimes,” he said, “society needs a wake-up call that readjusts their priorities.”
He might be regretting that statementbif the electorate in New York State applies that rhetoric to his 2018 gubernatorial campaign!
3
What about the people who live within the zone in Manhattan? Would we have to pay to drive our cars in Manhattan? Geez....
6
Most Manhattanites with cars already pay MUCH MORE than that just to keep their cars in Manhattan. I don't see how this proposal will seriously affect overall cost of living for the small minority of Manhattan residents with cars.
6
What about commercial deliveries from below 60th Street to above 60th Street in Manhattan? And taxi and other for-hire rides?
60th street would become a Berlin Wall with all sorts of distortions caused by attempts to avoid an $11.08 fee for crossing it to reach destinations short distances above or below it. For example, parking garages on say, 61st street would greatly benefit at the expense of garages on 59th St.
60th street would become a Berlin Wall with all sorts of distortions caused by attempts to avoid an $11.08 fee for crossing it to reach destinations short distances above or below it. For example, parking garages on say, 61st street would greatly benefit at the expense of garages on 59th St.
2
The proposal would probably have minor effects on people who live and park their cars in Manhattan.
First of all, the incremental effects would be felt essentially only by those who park their cars above 60th street. Most such residents only maintain their cars for personal use during non-congestion weekend and evening periods: (a) essentially for getting out of the city (with the option of going north to the GW and RFK Bridges and to Westchester) and (b) visiting restaurants, shopping and tourism destinations in lower Manhattan. Extremely few need or want to put up with the and nuisance of using their cars to reach destinations and parking in lower Manhattan during congestion periods when superior mass transit and for-hire cars alternatives available.
A small number of people living above 60th St. maintain cars because they have to do business outside of Manhattan regularly during congestion periods. For them, their need to get in and out of Manhattan does not contribute much to the congestion problem and they often have the option of traveling north. Perhaps, a special commercial designation would be made available for Manhattanites who regularly have to do business out of Manhattan.
First of all, the incremental effects would be felt essentially only by those who park their cars above 60th street. Most such residents only maintain their cars for personal use during non-congestion weekend and evening periods: (a) essentially for getting out of the city (with the option of going north to the GW and RFK Bridges and to Westchester) and (b) visiting restaurants, shopping and tourism destinations in lower Manhattan. Extremely few need or want to put up with the and nuisance of using their cars to reach destinations and parking in lower Manhattan during congestion periods when superior mass transit and for-hire cars alternatives available.
A small number of people living above 60th St. maintain cars because they have to do business outside of Manhattan regularly during congestion periods. For them, their need to get in and out of Manhattan does not contribute much to the congestion problem and they often have the option of traveling north. Perhaps, a special commercial designation would be made available for Manhattanites who regularly have to do business out of Manhattan.
Maybe. I need to see how the Cuomo plan affects S.I. and the other outer boroughs. Returning to 2-way tolling on the Verrazano is being studied and it may make sense now with the cashless tolling. But with despicable people like Jerold Nadler pushing for it I can't see how it would benefit Staten Island. Staten Islanders have only received empty promises from the MTA when it comes to expanding our critical express bus network so I have my doubts.
Cashless tolling may allow for relatively seamless tolls on the East River bridges but the Bklyn, Queens and Bronx electeds need to study this carefully. What about delivery trucks and people like plumbers and electricians who have to drive into Manhattan with equipment?
As I said - maybe.
Cashless tolling may allow for relatively seamless tolls on the East River bridges but the Bklyn, Queens and Bronx electeds need to study this carefully. What about delivery trucks and people like plumbers and electricians who have to drive into Manhattan with equipment?
As I said - maybe.
1
The proposal is to lower Verrazzano tolls by 45%. I would think that would help SI?
Firstly he needs to get rid of the Independent Democratic Caucus since the Republican State Senate will block some of the solutions to the funding problem. Congestion pricing may be just one new revenue stream but fair minded taxation should also be among the options.
1
Instead of trying to constantly punish the taxpayer with more taxes how about rewarding the taxpayer?
Commuting expenses to and from work regardless of the conveyance are presently not deductible on income tax returns. Make commuting expenses paid to public transportation deductible on the State and City returns. That will move many people from car to train and bus.
Of course our genius politicians would never think of anything as constructive as that.
Commuting expenses to and from work regardless of the conveyance are presently not deductible on income tax returns. Make commuting expenses paid to public transportation deductible on the State and City returns. That will move many people from car to train and bus.
Of course our genius politicians would never think of anything as constructive as that.
22
the idea is to raise more money for subway capital works and repairs - not to give it away!
1
Many employers already provide transportation accounts that allow you to pay up to the federal limit of $255/mo into a pre-tax account to use for things like metrocards: http://web.mta.info/mta/farebenefits.htm
That's why NY state will not be able to do what you suggest - you can't deduct the same thing twice on state and federal returns and it would be a nightmare to track this.
If you want this benefit, ask your employer. It's very easy for them to set up. The fact that $255 doesn't fully cover some monthly commuting costs here is another problem.
That's why NY state will not be able to do what you suggest - you can't deduct the same thing twice on state and federal returns and it would be a nightmare to track this.
If you want this benefit, ask your employer. It's very easy for them to set up. The fact that $255 doesn't fully cover some monthly commuting costs here is another problem.
3
Actually, it is deductible if you use Transit Check or something similar.
1