Recruiting " top black athletes " only difference between the mid 19th. Century, and now, no chains. Alumni are the plantation owners, and the coaches are the overseers. On Friday, rant and rave about racism, then on Saturday, go to the big game, drink some beer, stay out late, and on Monday, continue to fight the good fight.
Tom Franzson. Brevard N.C.
Tom Franzson. Brevard N.C.
15
The Civil War never ends, and it reminds us all of the work still to be done to make this the land of the free. The racism of the old south and also of the new south needs to end.
9
Providing context is important in these cases. We shouldn't forget that some of these characters were the pro-slavery Democrats who refused to accept the results of the 1860 presidential election and tried to split the nation with the confederacy.
3
All yes, the civil war or the war between the States. Whichever you want to call it, it was still the rebellion of the Southern Slave holding States against the Northern States over the right to own human beings. In prior history to our Civil War war the rebels or traitors were often if not always brought to trial for treasonous crimes against the homeland and often lynched. How ironic that the leadership escaped that punishment yet, used lynching to punish and intimidate the former slaves and their ancestors until recent history. President Abraham Lincoln a man of great wisdom and forethought saw no need to continue the suffering of the country and allowed the Southern soldier to return home to reconstruct their lives. We as a nation and in particular the black citizens of our "civilized" country continue to suffer the bitterness of the South's forced repatriation into modern society by their children's children. Think about how far advanced as a country we would be if not for all the issues we continue to fight over again and again with each new brainwashed generation of Southern school children. It's high past time that the South acknowledges it lost the Civil War. That and its long held belief that it was morally right to own other human beings. To continue to ignore the war for what it was about is to continue to a psychological amoral war of beliefs that they will never win. All at the expense of our country's future generations.
11
I think contextualization rather than removal makes sense - assuming that the former is done well. If we erase history, i.e., remove the statues etc., because they offend, future generations learn nothing. Do liberals (of which I am one) and people of color what the nation to remember or to 'forget'? It is far, far better to remember and to understand the injustice and horror than it is to remove the statue entirely and put up something non-controversial which is simply part of the background of students' lives like a bed of flowers.
17
One plaque, placed at the monument to a Confederate soldier, was thrown out and redone last year. Both the campus NAACP and some history professors objected to its original wording because it failed to mention slavery as the cause of the Civil War.
The issues that caused the Civil War are many. Slavery was just one of them. And falls under the ambit of the larger reason: economics.
Maybe these professors should bone up on their history before playing the PC Card.
The issues that caused the Civil War are many. Slavery was just one of them. And falls under the ambit of the larger reason: economics.
Maybe these professors should bone up on their history before playing the PC Card.
8
Ah...Lisa, Lisa...let me start by saying I am a progressive libertarian.
Yes...the PC card has been played by many groups over many periods of time.
Yes economics are the cause of all wars, but during the Civil War, the cause of slavery and economics were one and the same.
There is no PC here Lisa. Lincoln was right in fighting the war. The south was wrong. Period...
Do not try to rewrite history.
If you have any doubt visit the Lincoln Memorial in DC. Look at the plaque. In this temple as in the hearts of the people for whom he saved the union, the memory of A. Lincoln is enshrined forever....
Yes...the PC card has been played by many groups over many periods of time.
Yes economics are the cause of all wars, but during the Civil War, the cause of slavery and economics were one and the same.
There is no PC here Lisa. Lincoln was right in fighting the war. The south was wrong. Period...
Do not try to rewrite history.
If you have any doubt visit the Lincoln Memorial in DC. Look at the plaque. In this temple as in the hearts of the people for whom he saved the union, the memory of A. Lincoln is enshrined forever....
5
Um, before you going saying it wasn’t all about slavery, might want to read the statements of secession adopted by the state legislatures of Georgia, Mississippi, Alabama, Virginia, South Carolina. Matter of fact, the only “state’s right” ever cited was the right of one human being to own another as a piece of property, no different from a cow! And the outrage committed by the North was that those states refused to return the slaveowner’s “property” if said cow – oops, human being – happened to cross the state line.
3
It was NOT "economics." (Unless you assetr that "property rights" include the right to own humans.) Those states seceded for one reason and one reason only. Not nullification. Not tariffs. Their filthy regime was not in any way threatened by Lincoln's election, and their stranglehold on the Senate was in no doubt. They simply could not stomach a president who opposed the expansion of slavery to the territories. It wasn't that their filthy, stinking sado-terror state was actually in any danger; they were so offended by the thought of a president who dared speak ill of their regime of kidnapping, sex trafficking, rape and murder that they couldn't stand to remain. And thus they precipitated emancipation (such as it was) years before their peculiar institution might otherwise have ended.
16
Last year I took an official tour of Ole Miss with an undergraduate admissions guide. Aside from the constant reference to "the Harvard of the South", the running theme was that the university was "at the center " of the civil rights movement". The statue of James Meredith was prominently featured as a breakthrough for the school but there was no discussion of the brutal violence and pervasive racism of the era in Oxford.
The courthouse in downtown Oxford still has a confederate flag flying outside, as do most state buildings.
Ole Miss has a long way to go. Mississippi has a long way to go. Most of us have a long way to go.
The courthouse in downtown Oxford still has a confederate flag flying outside, as do most state buildings.
Ole Miss has a long way to go. Mississippi has a long way to go. Most of us have a long way to go.
40
Hey Honor Student, I am gonna throw you a bone.
In your post, you did not advocate bringing back slavery or ending the democratic union.
Lincoln would have loved you back in 1860. He would have put you on the top of his list of best, patriotic Americans.
In your post, you did not advocate bringing back slavery or ending the democratic union.
Lincoln would have loved you back in 1860. He would have put you on the top of his list of best, patriotic Americans.
2
As a white Southerner and former long time resident of Oxford MS, I applaud the University's efforts to remove the most offensive symbols of oppression. Dr. Khayat showed remarkable courage in the late 90s when he led the effort to ban the Confederate flag. That was an ugly time at Ole Miss, but the university is far better for it. That action, among many others (including substantial improvements in academic quality), set the stage for Ole Miss to become a much better college. Isn't that what higher education is really about?
19
America. Still reluctant to draw a sharp line between its racist past, and present is scary enough.
But now, with a president who caters to, and cajoles every instance of white fears with becoming a minority, it's even more frightening.
However, if for whatever reason, the Southern States didn't get the message, it should be elucidated loud and clear: The Civil War, and the Confederacy is over. You lost.
And no matter how many Klan Marches, and Right-wing white supremacist Hate Marches you stage, it won't bring Ole Miss, or ol' Dixie back.
Not without a fight anyway.
America has come too far to go back now.
Get used to it.
But now, with a president who caters to, and cajoles every instance of white fears with becoming a minority, it's even more frightening.
However, if for whatever reason, the Southern States didn't get the message, it should be elucidated loud and clear: The Civil War, and the Confederacy is over. You lost.
And no matter how many Klan Marches, and Right-wing white supremacist Hate Marches you stage, it won't bring Ole Miss, or ol' Dixie back.
Not without a fight anyway.
America has come too far to go back now.
Get used to it.
25
As a white northerner, all I can say is that, listening to some of the stuff on Fox news, the stuff from Breitbart, the stuff coming out of southern senators and representatives, and now our current president, it's clear that you're wrong - the Civil War is decidedly NOT over - it continues to be fought in the here and now, every minute of every day.
20
You cannot address the past if you are still living in it.
14
I propose another kind of change: instead of "offensive", say "iniquitous" or something equivalent. The crimes these people committed were by no means merely subjective or relative to contemporary morals.
2
Personally, I agree: kidnapping, rape, sex trafficking; forced labor; assault; murder. Many modern AMericans might think that these are self evident crimes, and that a regime based on them pretty much in thrall to Satan. But, then, we must be considerate of the sensitivities of those devoted to the heritage of the Sons of the Confederacy, eh?
3
I not sure these symbols of America's slave empire and its bloody, unholy rebellion should be completely erased. We were enjoying a visit to Louisiana a few years ago but after a few days accumulation of racist memorials I became sickened and just plain creeped out. The casual advancement of these racist symbols by southern state and city governments helped me realize how deeply and cavalierly modern racism is imbedded in some regions of America. It might be unfair to the many southerners who are sickened by these memorials and I appreciate how more advanced nations such as Germany pretty much obliterated memorials and paeans to their brutal, rampaging racists, but given the many citizens who still worship and glorify their racist ancestors, America needs to keep a place for these historical reminders of the great evils in our nation.
Maybe there is a compromise, a common place to deposit the memorials in each state where those who would worship and glorify the racist leaders and their soldiers could do their business. And then like ape cages in a zoo, school children could safely view them protected by a moat and safety glass. I know for me my trip to Louisiana powerfully helped my realize that those who have have been seduced by evil look just like everyone else and to this day they are legion.
Maybe there is a compromise, a common place to deposit the memorials in each state where those who would worship and glorify the racist leaders and their soldiers could do their business. And then like ape cages in a zoo, school children could safely view them protected by a moat and safety glass. I know for me my trip to Louisiana powerfully helped my realize that those who have have been seduced by evil look just like everyone else and to this day they are legion.
13
I was born in Mississippi and still own land there, but am finding it harder and harder to return to that beautiful state. Attitudes have improved but racism and ignorance are still deeply entrenched there. The fact that Ole' Miss has dropped the use of the Confederate flag is truly amazing and wonderful. But progress in so many areas is so slow.
14
That the federal government would be so enlightened. When, oh when, will the FBI remove "J. Edgar Hoover" from its headquarters in Washington, D.C.?
16
Pending the aproval of the disappearance of Vardaman Hall, it would be instructrive to hear the reasoning of the state college board's dissenters to the motion to rename it. Perhaps the citizens of Mississippi should be congratulated for allowing that lynching was deemed exceptional and we fellow citizens can mark that as progress and move on.
1
I have never understood how The South, with it's hundreds of years of history, stubbornly continues to highlight 4 years of rebellion in a struggle to continue to own other human beings.
22
Haven't you heard? It wasn't about slavery - it was about state's rights. "Everybody" knows that.
10
It was about what the states' Declarations of Secession called "property rights." That meant the RIGHT of dark-skinned American citizens TO BE PROPERTY of other people.
11
The University of Virginia was founded by Thomas Jefferson, one of our founding fathers who also owned slaves and apparently fathered children with a slave mistress named Sally Hemmings. Both the University and Jefferson's home, Monticello, now have programs and exhibits telling the story of Jefferson's owning slaves, and how slaves were used in the construction of the university's historic grounds, built in 1819 in Charlottesville Va. UVA also has full racial integration on its campus, with student life programs to help all of its students have a good experience, whether they are white, black, Asian or foreign born.
6
A lesser point here... but in the spirit of contextualization..... Sally Hemmings was Thomas Jefferson's deceased wife's half-sister. History, it's always a bit more nuanced than most can, or ever care to, grasp.
2
so Hemmings was the product of slave rape, just happened to be by the same man who also sired Jefferson's wife. Not nuanced, just doubly disturbing.
6
When I was a college student in the Sixties, we wore coats and ties to football games, to movies and to dances. It had nothing to do with the Confederacy and the Civil War. Old photos show college students across the nation did the same.
7
I was an undergraduate student at the University of Mississippi from 1966-1970 and a law student from 1971-1974. We dressed up in "our Sunday best" for football games, because we wanted to look our best. I never heard this foolishness about the Confederacy and the Civil War being a motivator until reading this article.
10
I certainly agree with the concerns expressed here. But I don't understand, and I am apprehensive about, the use of the phrase "offensive history".
Certainly the history of our country contains disturbing passages, tragedies, and incidents that we find distressing and shameful. But history itself cannot be offensive. It is the story, or the alternative accounts, of what has taken place.
The phrase suggests something that should be erased. If it is offensive, get rid of it.
But if we do not confront where we have been as honestly and dispassionately as we can, we will not be able to plan where we want to go.
Certainly the history of our country contains disturbing passages, tragedies, and incidents that we find distressing and shameful. But history itself cannot be offensive. It is the story, or the alternative accounts, of what has taken place.
The phrase suggests something that should be erased. If it is offensive, get rid of it.
But if we do not confront where we have been as honestly and dispassionately as we can, we will not be able to plan where we want to go.
15
I think the issue is at base one of presentation. Our Holocaust Museum and Museum of the American Indian in DC, or the ubiquitous sidewalk memorials throughout Germany to the murdered Jewish population and dynamited synagogues are wonderful memorials to our dark past, and serve an invaluable purpose in reminding us of the evil we all are capable of. The memorials throughout the south are to the defenders of the slave power, heroes in the fight against Reconstruction, valiant founders of the KKK, and, apparently, at least one liutenant governor who thought lynching was just peachy. Glorifying those race-crazed sado-terorists seems to me to be a generally undesirable position for our society to assume.
4
I'm a yankee who went to law school at Ole Miss. On my first day of legal research and writing I walked into the classroom right before class started and there were two tables a four top and an eight top. Sitting at the 8 top were two black students and sitting at the four top were 6 white students, so I sat down at the 8-top and introduced myself to the two students.
As I sat down, the white students looked at me with surprise, as did the professor. When we made our introductions and they discovered I was a yankee they realized I didn't know any better...that pretty much set the tone for my three years in Oxford.
Despite the advances in society, there is still an undertone of racism across the culture that will likely never be fixed regardless of whether there are statutes, streets, plaques, etc;
As I sat down, the white students looked at me with surprise, as did the professor. When we made our introductions and they discovered I was a yankee they realized I didn't know any better...that pretty much set the tone for my three years in Oxford.
Despite the advances in society, there is still an undertone of racism across the culture that will likely never be fixed regardless of whether there are statutes, streets, plaques, etc;
22
A native Mississippian, I made a point if sitting next to African-American students while a UM student in the sixties. Also, my white friends and I regularly went to local restaurants and other businesses with African-American friends. I never experience the surprise you felt, other than by one or two elderly store workers. Maybe you are projecting a bit?
4
Put all of that mess, plus the truth about slavery, in history books, and recognize the history that way. Symbols should not be a part of college campuses in 2017, even at the University of Mississippi!
3
"It was partly the university’s difficulty in recruiting top black athletes that led to the removal of the most offensive symbol. Two decades ago, the chancellor at the time, Robert Khayat, received death threats after he decided to eliminate the Confederate flag."
At least they removed the flag for a good reason: To help the football team.
At least they removed the flag for a good reason: To help the football team.
9
I literally don't believe the anecdote about the tour guide. As an alumnus of the university, and former resident of the state, I have literally never heard that. If a tour guide said it, they made it up.
We dressed up for football games because we're snobs that enjoy playing up our reputation of drinking too much while looking good.
We dressed up for football games because we're snobs that enjoy playing up our reputation of drinking too much while looking good.
7
Mississippi. Or the state that has the Presidential Library of Jefferson Davis (supported by the state of Mississippi), and the state flag incorporating the Confederate Battle Flag. Is this edging out of the Confederate shadow?
10
Mississippi also has the Presidential Library of Ulysses S. Grant, is that edging out of the Confederate shadow?
3
Two co-workers of mine, both African American, were in Oxford the day President Obama was re-elected. It was the year 2012 and they could not leave their hotel because of all the hatred around them. They were not safe in Mississippi in 2012. I think there are just some people who can never stop hating something they were taught to hate and their parents were taught to hate and on it went. When I see pictures of lynchings and all the white people and their children smiling and pointing and eating their picnics of fried chicken and potato salad prepared by their black nannies, I see people with dead hearts and minds. And it may remain so for many more years to come.
20
I respect the effort of Ole Miss to address Confederate symbols on campus. They have as much or more Confederate symbolism and history than any other university in the country. It is not an easy task.
The University of Texas has dealt with the same issues. When I moved to Austin 12 years ago, I was shocked to see a statue of Jefferson Davis in the most prominent location of honor along the South Mall. Robert E. Lee was close at hand, though he doesn't seem to generate quite as much outrage, being a respected military leader, rather than a political one.
To me, the timing and context of these Confederate monuments makes all the difference. A statue erected just after the Civil War, honoring the Confederate soldiers lost in the conflict, holds more value than something erected years later as an homage to white dominion over black.
In the case at UT, the fountain and statues weren't completed until 1932. And while the design was changed, the intent is clear. The inscription spoke of states' rights and free government. A mile away, one of the numerous Confederate monuments on the state capitol grounds actually tries to argue that the Confederates were fighting to uphold the Constitution. Whitewashing history with a bazooka-sized paintball gun. A common attitude, and thread, in the erection of these monuments to white power.
In 1932, the issue wasn't history, it was segregation and Jim Crow. Couldn't be clearer than a "WHITES ONLY" sign out front.
The University of Texas has dealt with the same issues. When I moved to Austin 12 years ago, I was shocked to see a statue of Jefferson Davis in the most prominent location of honor along the South Mall. Robert E. Lee was close at hand, though he doesn't seem to generate quite as much outrage, being a respected military leader, rather than a political one.
To me, the timing and context of these Confederate monuments makes all the difference. A statue erected just after the Civil War, honoring the Confederate soldiers lost in the conflict, holds more value than something erected years later as an homage to white dominion over black.
In the case at UT, the fountain and statues weren't completed until 1932. And while the design was changed, the intent is clear. The inscription spoke of states' rights and free government. A mile away, one of the numerous Confederate monuments on the state capitol grounds actually tries to argue that the Confederates were fighting to uphold the Constitution. Whitewashing history with a bazooka-sized paintball gun. A common attitude, and thread, in the erection of these monuments to white power.
In 1932, the issue wasn't history, it was segregation and Jim Crow. Couldn't be clearer than a "WHITES ONLY" sign out front.
36
The article notes that Ole' Miss students in 1861 left en masse to join the Confederate army. Proud to say that every single male in the class of 1861 at my own college, Alfred University in western NY state, joined the Union Army after graduation.
27
My great-grandfater, a private in the 27th Ohio Volunteer Regiment would salute them if he was here!
5
Sorry, but I have zero sympathy for the alumni and any current students whose identity is intertwined with slavery and the Jim Crow era. When your traditions and sense of self are wrapped up in the brutal and immoral legacy of owning other human beings, whose family members could be separated and sold at will, and making them work for nothing for life so you can make profits from agriculture and other labor-intensive ventures, then you need to take a cold hard look in the mirror again because you are missing all the ugly.
The fact that you may be good people who love their mamas and kids and Ole Miss does not trump the ugly past - unless it does for you, which just makes it all the more indefensible. I'm from NC, which has a similar ugly past and present, but I have never thought that way, nor does half the state.
The fact that you may be good people who love their mamas and kids and Ole Miss does not trump the ugly past - unless it does for you, which just makes it all the more indefensible. I'm from NC, which has a similar ugly past and present, but I have never thought that way, nor does half the state.
43
The Civil War was about slavery. The Civil War was also about an agrarian society against the big bankers in the North. Reconstruction was about undoing the culture of slavery. Reconstruction was also about the North looting the South.
After the war the poor white people of the South who did the fighting for the Confederacy were first punished by Reconstruction, then pushed into sharecropping lives along with Black people. After the war the rich white plantation owners, the architects of the slave society and secession got rich off of Wall Street investment.
Not a simple story at all.
After the war the poor white people of the South who did the fighting for the Confederacy were first punished by Reconstruction, then pushed into sharecropping lives along with Black people. After the war the rich white plantation owners, the architects of the slave society and secession got rich off of Wall Street investment.
Not a simple story at all.
22
The legacy of slavery remains strong throughout the nation, hence the controversial nature of the topic. The northern states are by no means immune to racism. However, the Deep South remains somewhat in a league of its own in terms of racism and intolerance - as somewhat evidenced by the “deep red” nature of the entire deep south. Today the South is actually more "solid republican" than it had been "solid democratic" during the days of Jim Crow (a previous NYT's article addressed this).
6
An agrarian society powered by slaves.
Pretty simple at that.
Pretty simple at that.
9
The South went to war over slavery; Lee and the other Confederate generals were traitors and could have been court-martialed and shot at war's end; the North sold out African-Americans over Reconstruction - always surprised when people argue over these basic facts.
16
The South may have lost the civil war but it won the long battle. Only in America would traitors be glorified. We're never going to move forward if we don't put the past behind us. Confederate history belongs in a museum but not in public spaces.
I'm glad that plaques are being used to conceptualize the historical context and that's a good place to start. But buildings and streets named after Confederate heroes need to be changed, Confederate statues need to be moved to museums, and the Confederate flag has no place in public spaces. People who use racist language should be condemned not condoned and more needs to be done to preserve black history that has been allowed to decay while the Confederate history was celebrated and protected.
Sadly none of these things will happen. People will hide behind free speech and use it as a shield to protect a past best left behind.
I'm glad that plaques are being used to conceptualize the historical context and that's a good place to start. But buildings and streets named after Confederate heroes need to be changed, Confederate statues need to be moved to museums, and the Confederate flag has no place in public spaces. People who use racist language should be condemned not condoned and more needs to be done to preserve black history that has been allowed to decay while the Confederate history was celebrated and protected.
Sadly none of these things will happen. People will hide behind free speech and use it as a shield to protect a past best left behind.
22
I'm white and from the South, from many generations of Southerners. For God's sake, let the symbols of the Confederacy go. It's not about denying history. It's about putting history where it belongs, in the past.
21
If more people were aware of their own family history they would have more nuanced views of the world we have made for ourselves. ALL of us alive today have ancestors that did horrible things in today's view.
Respecting the past is of some value but understanding it more important.
Respecting the past is of some value but understanding it more important.
9
But most of us do not fete our inglorious, murderous ancestors with statues, flags and parades.
5
It is more than 150 years since The Civil War was fought. Reconstruction ended 140 years ago. Civil Rights finally passed Congress a little more than 50 years ago. The battle to right wrongs continues and will continue for some time to come, perhaps forever.
14
If I were a student at "Ole Miss", I would make it my mission to BURN/VANDALIZE all these legacies to slaveholders, bigots, murderers, lynchers, etc. If students in Germany burned down a university building named after Hitler, the whole country would be celebrating that arson.
Arson and vandalism is the proper response to all these offensive "monuments" to slavery, Jim Crow, murder, and rape.
Arson and vandalism is the proper response to all these offensive "monuments" to slavery, Jim Crow, murder, and rape.
2
Amazed that NYT would post a comment like this advocating criminal activity.
I am guessing, Richard, that you are either not very old or not very bright or both. Gandhi would condemn what you advocate. So would Martin Luther, Jr. Violence, as they say, only begets violence.
Of course monuments and traditions that glorify slavery and offend people should disappear, but such things do not happen overnight. Such is the nature of human nature. The Civil War was the most cataclysmic event this nation has ever seen. The scars run deep. Healing takes a long, long time, as does reaching a true understanding after so many generations of mis-truths. I find little to criticize in reading how the university in question here has been tackling things. They are making progress, and so long as progress is being made, that is a good thing.
Now, if you wish to vandalize something, do it in the way that Corey Menafee did. He's the black dining hall worker at Calhoun College at Yale who last year broke a stained glass window depicting slaves picking cotton. He described it as a spontaneous act--after seeing the window day after day, something inside him just snapped. After breaking the window, Mr. Menafee shaved, then waited for police to arrive. He explained that he wanted to look respectable when he was arrested. The way that he did what he did, knowing that he'd lose his job and be charged with a crime, forced Yale to rename the college.
That, Richard, is a noble vandal. Don't burn stuff.
I am guessing, Richard, that you are either not very old or not very bright or both. Gandhi would condemn what you advocate. So would Martin Luther, Jr. Violence, as they say, only begets violence.
Of course monuments and traditions that glorify slavery and offend people should disappear, but such things do not happen overnight. Such is the nature of human nature. The Civil War was the most cataclysmic event this nation has ever seen. The scars run deep. Healing takes a long, long time, as does reaching a true understanding after so many generations of mis-truths. I find little to criticize in reading how the university in question here has been tackling things. They are making progress, and so long as progress is being made, that is a good thing.
Now, if you wish to vandalize something, do it in the way that Corey Menafee did. He's the black dining hall worker at Calhoun College at Yale who last year broke a stained glass window depicting slaves picking cotton. He described it as a spontaneous act--after seeing the window day after day, something inside him just snapped. After breaking the window, Mr. Menafee shaved, then waited for police to arrive. He explained that he wanted to look respectable when he was arrested. The way that he did what he did, knowing that he'd lose his job and be charged with a crime, forced Yale to rename the college.
That, Richard, is a noble vandal. Don't burn stuff.
3
For 53 years, any mention of Oxford, Mississippi or Ole Miss has sent a chill through my body. As a naïve 18 year old US Navy student at USNATTC Memphis, two of my friends and I, all from the Northeast decided to travel to Oxford (wearing civilian clothing) in the hopes of meeting Co-eds from Ole Miss.
We arrived to friendly greetings from the townsfolk while walking the town square. We would nod and smile, but there was no verbal interaction. We (three well-scrubbed white Yankees) decided to get lunch at a Luncheonette on the square. Everything was fine until we ordered our food in our northern accents. The normal noise of conversation and dishes stopped immediately and all eyes bore down on us. We ate our lunch and retreated outside after paying. The news of the Yankee boys in town had spread quickly and we were the object of everyone's attention from a growing crowd. We left town and returned to Memphis with constant vigilance in the rear view mirror.
I was never more in fear for my life. I should have realized the danger because it was within weeks of the discovery the bodies of three young civil rights workers in Philadelphia, Mississippi. The TV show "Aerial America - Mississippi" episode showed the Oxford town square and I started shaking involuntarily after decades of never thinking about that situation.
We arrived to friendly greetings from the townsfolk while walking the town square. We would nod and smile, but there was no verbal interaction. We (three well-scrubbed white Yankees) decided to get lunch at a Luncheonette on the square. Everything was fine until we ordered our food in our northern accents. The normal noise of conversation and dishes stopped immediately and all eyes bore down on us. We ate our lunch and retreated outside after paying. The news of the Yankee boys in town had spread quickly and we were the object of everyone's attention from a growing crowd. We left town and returned to Memphis with constant vigilance in the rear view mirror.
I was never more in fear for my life. I should have realized the danger because it was within weeks of the discovery the bodies of three young civil rights workers in Philadelphia, Mississippi. The TV show "Aerial America - Mississippi" episode showed the Oxford town square and I started shaking involuntarily after decades of never thinking about that situation.
15
And Peyton Manning???
@Richard Frauenglass,
Peyton Manning is an alum of the University of Tennessee. Go Vols!
Peyton Manning is an alum of the University of Tennessee. Go Vols!
4
In the 80s, I terminated a dependable employee because he hung a Confederate flag in the back of the company truck. He said he hadn't intended it as bigoted and I replied that perception overruled intention.
Whitewashing (no pun intended) our past might do just that...make us forget that families like mine once owned humans. I believe monuments that were intended to honor our forefathers serve as a reminder of how sinful they were, and reflect a denial of their sins by those who erected the monuments. They are disgraceful and should remain intact.
For me, when I visit these monuments or even look at a portrait or bust of George Washington, I am reminder of the disgrace and how far we still have to go to eliminate prejudice and inequality.
We should use these memorials of our racist forefathers as an opportunity to teach colorblindness.
Whitewashing (no pun intended) our past might do just that...make us forget that families like mine once owned humans. I believe monuments that were intended to honor our forefathers serve as a reminder of how sinful they were, and reflect a denial of their sins by those who erected the monuments. They are disgraceful and should remain intact.
For me, when I visit these monuments or even look at a portrait or bust of George Washington, I am reminder of the disgrace and how far we still have to go to eliminate prejudice and inequality.
We should use these memorials of our racist forefathers as an opportunity to teach colorblindness.
3
Yeah, it's all about home, hearth and honor
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/20/sports/ncaafootball/hugh-freeze-resig...
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/20/sports/ncaafootball/hugh-freeze-resig...
There has been, and will be much discussion regarding the causes of the Civil War.
The South could not economically survive without slavery and that system was, obviously, essential.
The South wanted to continue that system during the Westward expansion, the North did not. Andi-slavery absolutely, but abolishment , which many desired, was not the primary argument.
As such the issue became a state's rights issue and a test of the powers of the Federal Government. The South, feeling hemmed in, seceded.
So while it might be nice to posture the moral argument for causality, it really can not be supported factually.
The South could not economically survive without slavery and that system was, obviously, essential.
The South wanted to continue that system during the Westward expansion, the North did not. Andi-slavery absolutely, but abolishment , which many desired, was not the primary argument.
As such the issue became a state's rights issue and a test of the powers of the Federal Government. The South, feeling hemmed in, seceded.
So while it might be nice to posture the moral argument for causality, it really can not be supported factually.
3
The South could have survived without slavery and as evidence I give you the 21st century South. But instead of basing their economy on large holdings of land and dependence on labor intensive crops, they needed to create more industrial sources of wealth and quit relying on african american labor (slave prewar and low wage black labor post war) in order to be competitive with northern industry.
1
Nice in theoretical hindsight but at the time there was no reason to do so. And by the way, where did the cotton come from that fed the New England, and English mills?
1
"It was partly the university’s difficulty in recruiting top black athletes that led to the removal of the most offensive symbol."
It is interesting to see that in many, if not most cases these decisions are based on financial considerations, and not primarily on the ethics behind the issue. The same was true, if I remember correctly, for Arizona's refusal to acknowledge MLK Day in the 1980s (?) - only when the NFL threatened to boycott the state, it gave in.
It is interesting to see that in many, if not most cases these decisions are based on financial considerations, and not primarily on the ethics behind the issue. The same was true, if I remember correctly, for Arizona's refusal to acknowledge MLK Day in the 1980s (?) - only when the NFL threatened to boycott the state, it gave in.
12
It's always all been about financial considerations. Everything that happens now and everything that happened then.
3
In 1775, the Society of Friends, the Quakers. forbade their members from owning slaves. All people are equal. They Society of Friends gave us many lessons.
27
What is fascinating is vast majority of the people whose families died for rhe institution of slavery and states rights did NOT own slaves. They were sold a bill of goods by the rich equivalent of agricultural elite ie the equivalent of Wall Street, Big Oil , Walmart ie THE WINNERS. As losers they fought the war for the 1%, drank the potion, and still do. Gamed again, SAD.
27
Sounds like present day Trump's supporters who want to lose access to health insurance and support tax cuts for the rich.
10
Honor Senior, what you should be honoring and cherishing and promoting are not rebel traitors but the great story of how in as little as the last 60 yrs, the south went from segregation, oppression and lynching of blacks to total equality.
Be proud of that.
Be proud of that.
1
When total equality happens, you let us know. That which you proclaim, the rest of us are awaiting.
5
Yeah, Ole MIss edges out of its confederate shadow.
They could not compete in Southeastern Conference football games without African Americans. The Rebels got future NFL hall of famer Patrick Willis out of the cotton fields of Tennessee, and that's to their credit.
I'd like to see some of these racists and scions of the Confederacy explain their heritage to players like Willis, who was described as a vicious tackling machine.
I guess they want their Confederate monuments, while accommodating good football players of any color. Old times there are not forgotten, except when it is inconvenient.
They could not compete in Southeastern Conference football games without African Americans. The Rebels got future NFL hall of famer Patrick Willis out of the cotton fields of Tennessee, and that's to their credit.
I'd like to see some of these racists and scions of the Confederacy explain their heritage to players like Willis, who was described as a vicious tackling machine.
I guess they want their Confederate monuments, while accommodating good football players of any color. Old times there are not forgotten, except when it is inconvenient.
12
The confederate culture is definitely still alive and well. While I was in Gainseville (UF) rather than Ole Miss, the environment was pretty similar to the article (although they're definitely not being open about the severity).
The statues, flags, and buildings aren't really the problem; it's the people who ardently support them. History is important to preserve and learn from, but there is a stark difference between celebration and acknowledgement.
Speaking of history, part of my reason for leaving UF was thanks to lessons imparted from my ancestors. During the Great Migration, 6 mil (47%) of black people fled the South including my grandparents. And without the better liberty and equality, there would have never been a Renaissance. Did I have to as well? No. I'm well aware that I was partially in culture shock considering I never had even seen a confederate flag in Chicago/Ithaca, walked past KKK graffiti for weeks simply to get lunch, drove past deface solidarity signs, been ignored by coworkers in same lab for months after coming out, nor been told by staff "[The department] had a black student about 10 years ago, and it was the worst thing that happened to the department" (not only in person upon meeting me, but in closed administrative level meetings).
Anyways, I just wanted to add a bit of anecdotal nuance that is often inaccessible due to fear. Sometimes you simply have to change your path and hope for the best.
The statues, flags, and buildings aren't really the problem; it's the people who ardently support them. History is important to preserve and learn from, but there is a stark difference between celebration and acknowledgement.
Speaking of history, part of my reason for leaving UF was thanks to lessons imparted from my ancestors. During the Great Migration, 6 mil (47%) of black people fled the South including my grandparents. And without the better liberty and equality, there would have never been a Renaissance. Did I have to as well? No. I'm well aware that I was partially in culture shock considering I never had even seen a confederate flag in Chicago/Ithaca, walked past KKK graffiti for weeks simply to get lunch, drove past deface solidarity signs, been ignored by coworkers in same lab for months after coming out, nor been told by staff "[The department] had a black student about 10 years ago, and it was the worst thing that happened to the department" (not only in person upon meeting me, but in closed administrative level meetings).
Anyways, I just wanted to add a bit of anecdotal nuance that is often inaccessible due to fear. Sometimes you simply have to change your path and hope for the best.
29
I find it hard to reconcile how a state where support for President Trump and loud patriotism is so common worships men who went to war in defiance of a US President to kill US soldiers and split the US in half.
34
Agreed DSM, rocked ribbed extreme conservatives will call you a traitor if you say anything against the USA but owning slaves and taking up arms against your country are ok.
Baffling.
Baffling.
18
To change the attitude of all the defenders of Ole Miss and what it stands for, recruit an all white football team and see how well they do.
21
I spent a long weekend in Oxford many years ago while working on my hero William Faulkner. All was politeness in the best Southern tradition. But I the Myth of the Old South was everywhere. Statues of Civil War and Reconstruction-era slavery-lovers in spots of honor. That was 45 years ago. The student body is less overtly racist now, and the town seems to be.
But when I was there, every server was a light-skinned woman of color, and every supervisor a white male. No jokes were shared between servers and white customers. I never have seen such abject fear as I saw then.
Is the New South in Mississippi compatible with honoring Vardaman, Johnson, Bilbo, slavers, traitors, segregationists, the dark Philadelphia, Mississippi where Reagan gave his first election speech soon after 3 Civil Rights workers were tortured, shot, and buried alive?
Germany outlawed monuments to Hitler and the Nazis, and despite some anti-immigrant neo-Nazis rallying, it is a democratic, liberal, and successful nation - but toleration is limited by law. I prefer the "marketplace of ideas", though Mississippi and the alt.Right make me look for what eludes America, a universal rejection of racism, slavery, and treason. Maybe apologies need to be on all commemoratives, "Our history includes veneration of a slave-holding past, our future depends on not honoring that..."
But when I was there, every server was a light-skinned woman of color, and every supervisor a white male. No jokes were shared between servers and white customers. I never have seen such abject fear as I saw then.
Is the New South in Mississippi compatible with honoring Vardaman, Johnson, Bilbo, slavers, traitors, segregationists, the dark Philadelphia, Mississippi where Reagan gave his first election speech soon after 3 Civil Rights workers were tortured, shot, and buried alive?
Germany outlawed monuments to Hitler and the Nazis, and despite some anti-immigrant neo-Nazis rallying, it is a democratic, liberal, and successful nation - but toleration is limited by law. I prefer the "marketplace of ideas", though Mississippi and the alt.Right make me look for what eludes America, a universal rejection of racism, slavery, and treason. Maybe apologies need to be on all commemoratives, "Our history includes veneration of a slave-holding past, our future depends on not honoring that..."
25
What is lost in this ongoing debate is the failure to recognize the story of human resilience as is witnessed in the story of people of color in the United States. A study of their survival of the brutality of slavery and Jim Crow should be a testament to all people of the intrinsic power of the human soul. The horrific evil of those two institutions eclipses all other experiences because of their length and their pervasiveness through out our society. And yet as the poet Maya Angelou declared, "I Still Rise".
21
4therecord, Why do we never hear when you speak of resilience my Southern White Ancestors who suffered the loss of everything in the invasion and takeover of Lincoln's coup. Farms, Towns, cities, destroyed, 600,000 dead soldiers and uncounted millions from Sherman's War on Civilians and deaths throughout the entire states due to starvation and murder. There was no award of reparations from Washington DC, instead there were TAXES paid up to WWII. The yankees stole more after the war than they did before. Yes, my people built it back by the sweat of their brow. Lincoln promised to bottle the ex-slaves up in the South because the other states didnot want them. My people took care of them as well, gave them jobs, clothes, and land to farm that kept them alive.
I have struggled to try to understand why so many are committed to the notion of superiority. While I recognize that it is innate to the individual human collectively, as the human race we have been able to rise above this very human character flaw. Those who remain anchored to this flaw were conditioned by decades of religious and economic justification from 1619 to 1775. The horror was codified not only by white southerners but by all of the founding fathers of our nation who became complicit in their self delusion of the slave holding states in the "Great Compromise". We need to jettison our moral superiority regarding this matter and understand that without this agreement there would be no United States of America. Could something better have been devised? Only a sanctimonious revisionist would be certain that it would. Our history is our history. What we must struggle with now is the carnage that is its result. History is not meant to be fixed, but it is necessary that it is understood.
4
I'm from Oxford and am a direct descendant of James Z. George, and I applaud the efforts of the university to contextualize his legacy. As the most famous Oxonian wrote, "The past is never dead. It isn't even past." George's actions still impact the present, and it's essential for Ole Miss, as an educational institution, to confront his legacy directly.
50
Hummm? Slavery is indefensible, of course.
I am sick to my stomach of fake news from the right now made worse by fake history from the left.
“The Confederate soldier is mind-baffling, “Why is that needed? You have students here who are offended by it.”
Likely as not, there are students that take pride in it.
In answer to Mr. King's question, I submit that the statue is needed to honor those who fought to protect home and hearth.
Try your best to distinguish between those that fought for slavery and those that fought for home and hearth.
Let the rants begin.
I am sick to my stomach of fake news from the right now made worse by fake history from the left.
“The Confederate soldier is mind-baffling, “Why is that needed? You have students here who are offended by it.”
Likely as not, there are students that take pride in it.
In answer to Mr. King's question, I submit that the statue is needed to honor those who fought to protect home and hearth.
Try your best to distinguish between those that fought for slavery and those that fought for home and hearth.
Let the rants begin.
10
The fact that defending home and hearth also defended slavery is indefensible. There is no way to justify fighting on the side of slavery no matter what else you think was going on. Period.
27
" I submit that the statue is needed to honor those who fought to protect home and hearth. "
Then why not a statue of a Union solider also? Or better yet, why not a statue of an American solider? Is the confederacy more worthy of praise than the country you reside in?
Then why not a statue of a Union solider also? Or better yet, why not a statue of an American solider? Is the confederacy more worthy of praise than the country you reside in?
19
Susankm, agreed and you forgot one minor point. The rebel slave owners fired on their own gov't making them also traitors.
9
Ugh. I fear the emphasis on whether something is "offensive" will needlessly add subjectivity to the debate. Monuments to white supremacy, slavery, and treason are simply inappropriate, whether you're offended by them or you cherish them as part of your white identity.
And that story about church clothes at football games is obviously a recent invention. There's simply no need for it.
And that story about church clothes at football games is obviously a recent invention. There's simply no need for it.
14
"Gradualism" is the means by which fundraisers and college presidents get to sit on both sides of the fence and not offend those sports recruits who might bump revenue and alumni who may write a check but only if reassured that they were never racist, just "traditionalist". Sadly, they probably don't care which side wins as long as they keep increasing the endowment. Welcome to race in America.
20
Went there once.
Just so I could say I had been there.
Never need to go back.
Ever.
Just so I could say I had been there.
Never need to go back.
Ever.
9
I think a big thing the University of Mississippi could do would be to stop using the term Ole Miss. Not necessarily to confront alumni who use it, but representatives of the school should just stop using it themselves. Let it slowly die.
4
this is already happening. the school is still known colloquially as "ole miss," but you'd be hard pressed to find a university employee who actually calls it that. which is great. i also think "ole miss" needs to die. it probably won't happen in my lifetime (and i'm only 22) but eventually it should and will.
7
As a born and raised Christian white male Southerner, I cheer the day when people of gumption tear down these statues honoring traitors to the Constitution. I am so done with "our heritage " blather.
I'm glad old great grandpa lost the war. It saved my eternal soul.
I'm glad old great grandpa lost the war. It saved my eternal soul.
159
I admire you, Malcolm!
Easy, M. Visit Gettysburg, where the dead of both sides are buried. Those with open minds will notice that some Confederates decided to be buried there, 20+ years after Appomattox, and were allowed by the USA, to do so. There were enemies, at one time -- also some relatives.
This is not easy work.
This is not easy work.
1
And you were there? You know of it's past through what? Divine inspiration?
As a Yankee, I could through condescending epithets at Ole Miss and its loyal constituents ad infinitum. What right does this barbarian institution have to honor lynching, slavery, Jim Crow laws and naked institutionalized racism? That being said, destroying the historical memory of Ole Miss destroys the South doesn't it? It destroys the cultural roots of Southern whites who are entitled to a measure of ethnic identity in the same way every other ethnic group in the United States has an identity rooted in historical memory. Historical memory is not history. That is the rub. It is a continuous reconstruction of the past that serves the interests of an imagined living community with a shared culture including political interests.
Some historical figures are simply beyond the pale. Adolf Hitler and anything to do with the Nazis is one example of a history that we will not mythologize. But can we allow the Confederacy, both the antebellum, bellum and post bellum South to be mythologized in the present when we know of the irredeemable aspects of that "Southern Heritage?" I think Ole Miss is trying to negotiate that. That is probably the only thing they can do.
Some historical figures are simply beyond the pale. Adolf Hitler and anything to do with the Nazis is one example of a history that we will not mythologize. But can we allow the Confederacy, both the antebellum, bellum and post bellum South to be mythologized in the present when we know of the irredeemable aspects of that "Southern Heritage?" I think Ole Miss is trying to negotiate that. That is probably the only thing they can do.
2
My Ole Miss professors usually used "throw" instead of "through."
2
Just how much "context" is needed for the Whites of Mississippi to acknowledge that those who supported and fought for the Confederacy were traitors? There are no statues in Germany today to Adolph Hitler, no Goebbels Avenue, no university with major buildings named for Rommel. The vicious racial oppression visited on African-Americans by White Southerners was every bit has heinous and inhuman as the crimes of the Nazis. Germans did not take generations to understand their crimes. So why the need for "gradualism" from White Southerners?
The White South simply refuses to admit that the legacy of the Confederacy is nothing of which to be proud, their Confederate "heritage" is nothing to cherish. If White Southerners want to be considered full Americans, and embrace what the rest of Americans cherish, and the rest of the world admires, let them discard the remnants of their racist past. And do it now.
The White South simply refuses to admit that the legacy of the Confederacy is nothing of which to be proud, their Confederate "heritage" is nothing to cherish. If White Southerners want to be considered full Americans, and embrace what the rest of Americans cherish, and the rest of the world admires, let them discard the remnants of their racist past. And do it now.
95
Dear "Sean"......You might help to get a lot more necessary work done if you would take the trouble to drop this business of referring to "White Southerners" and "The White South".
Thanks for telling me what I (a white southerner, through and through) need to do/must do in order for you to consider me a "Full-American" (your phrase, and I quote).
Do, please, tell me what "The White South" is, and what "White Southerners" are. You seem to know so very-very much about everything and everyone, right????....
Quite sincerely
David Terry
Hillsborough, NC
Thanks for telling me what I (a white southerner, through and through) need to do/must do in order for you to consider me a "Full-American" (your phrase, and I quote).
Do, please, tell me what "The White South" is, and what "White Southerners" are. You seem to know so very-very much about everything and everyone, right????....
Quite sincerely
David Terry
Hillsborough, NC
2
Rebels who attend football games dressed to the nines. LOL. Oh those scamps, what will they be up to next, donning bow ties and venting rebellion on Fox News. Mercy me, somebody get me a glass of water, its getting hot in here.
9
As a(n) African-American, Black man, negro, colored man, person of color, United States citizen who happens to be non-white (choose your favored identification I don't much care because I know who I am), and a History major and continued student of history, contextualization seems about right. No response to the horror of slavery and Jim Crow will ever satisfy all particular segments of the population. At the same time no one should be afraid of factual information being made available. I suspect that those who fear contextualization continue to harbor the darkness that allowed the barbarism and un-Americanism of those days to fester. I will not applaud Ole Miss for their struggle, however, I am sympathetic with them for the challenges that they face.
26
Might I recommend to The Times readers a book: "The Myth Of The Lost Cause: Why The South Fought The Civil War And Why The North Won" by Edward Bonekemper III. It will do much to explain why 150 years later we are dealing with monuments, parks and schools named after secessionist traitors.
7
The "blind side" doesn't just apply to an Ole Miss football player's position. It also applies to the position of those who do not recognize the cost "our History" has imposed upon this country from the founding of Mississippi until today. I was born in Mississippi, and my family on both sides goes by multiple generations in that state. I remember segregation, and remember when the Ole Miss riots occurred over a black man trying simply to enter that public university paid for by taxes from all Mississippians. Those rioters were truly spurred on by rabble rousers. I'm not particularly liberal, and not a minority, but the past in Mississippi is my past, as well as the past of others, and it is not a re-write of history to bring attention to the incredible harm the secessionist slaveholders caused.
53
The university of Mississippi is a place where overt racism is celebrated. I visited a few times last decade and was always shocked by it. And for a top tier university in it's state, it is a pretty poor example of an academic institution. Essentially sports and a legacy of white supremacy is all they have.
41
Use hyperbole much, sir? I would not sugarcoat how some people associated with the university still hold on to racist traditions, but they are in the minority and are only becoming more so. They are quite vocal, as is typical of those who see their way of thinking being left behind. They are vocal not because they are winning, but because they are losing.
Your statement regarding academics is simply untrue. So I guess the place should shut its doors for failure to accomplish the most basic mission of educating and graduating students? There are more than several programs--Accounting, Business, Pharmaceutical Sciences, off the top of my head--that have distinguished themselves nationally. Our colleges are indeed playing a game of catch-up trying to recify historical deficits to do with poverty and literacy. We are reaching back to pull up a lot of people.
Your comment is a backwards-looking one. I agree that there remain artifacts, both mental and actual, that should have already been dealt with. But believe me when I say that these things are like the walking dead, like the chicken that has been decapitated, yet is still running around the barnyard, making an awful scene in the final seconds before its collapse. I invite you to stay tuned as the many dedicated faculty, staff, and students continue to remake this university in the image of all its people.
Your statement regarding academics is simply untrue. So I guess the place should shut its doors for failure to accomplish the most basic mission of educating and graduating students? There are more than several programs--Accounting, Business, Pharmaceutical Sciences, off the top of my head--that have distinguished themselves nationally. Our colleges are indeed playing a game of catch-up trying to recify historical deficits to do with poverty and literacy. We are reaching back to pull up a lot of people.
Your comment is a backwards-looking one. I agree that there remain artifacts, both mental and actual, that should have already been dealt with. But believe me when I say that these things are like the walking dead, like the chicken that has been decapitated, yet is still running around the barnyard, making an awful scene in the final seconds before its collapse. I invite you to stay tuned as the many dedicated faculty, staff, and students continue to remake this university in the image of all its people.
1
As a graduate of the University of Mississippi, I welcome the contextualization. To oppose is to suggest that one is incapable of holding two thoughts in one's head simultaneously. Specifically, that a person can be a great statesman, working for what he/she feels is the good of their constituents, but still be on the wrong side of history and human rights. As an alumnus, I welcome the continuing dialogue, and look forward to the day when students of all races, ethnicities, and backgrounds feel welcome and safe on the Mississippi campus so that they can hopefully learn from their shared, and unshared, histories together.
21
I appreciate the approach of 'socializing' change and moving gradually - however, these guys are still fighting the civil war. Time to 'rip the band-aid off'.
3
Ole Miss, your "confederate shadow" will always be with you. You cannot change history............
8
According to the article, Lamar drafted the state's orders of secession. Here is the opening of the Mississippi Declaration of Secession:
"In the momentous step, which our State has taken of dissolving its connection with the government of which we so long formed a part, it is but just that we should declare the prominent reasons which have induced our course.
Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery - the greatest material interest of the world. . . ."
"In the momentous step, which our State has taken of dissolving its connection with the government of which we so long formed a part, it is but just that we should declare the prominent reasons which have induced our course.
Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery - the greatest material interest of the world. . . ."
60
Great reporting. As society deals with the history of overt racism in south, the analysis must turn to the equally dreadful racism of the north. Whites only wasn't restricted to just Mississippi. Perhaps as a society we can then address our collective guilt over the history of slavery and its aftermath. Perhaps we can study how Germany has dealt with its dark past and learn from them. Never forget seems a start.
37
Yes. I see the remnants of our collective guilt up north here in Cleveland OH. There are plenty of people in Greater Cleveland who are just as guilty as southerners. Some more so. Including in the homes I have to pass on my way to work with Confederate flags hanging in front yards in a Cleveland suburb.
2
The history of this country is intertwined with that of slavery. It is cowardly to refuse to contextualize that this history for history which is not understood is bound to be repeated.
By the way what is a minority?
Musings of a proud graduate of Yale College, class of 1977
By the way what is a minority?
Musings of a proud graduate of Yale College, class of 1977
6
Confederates were traitors who rebelled against the concept of a United States. Confederate army officers had sworn to uphold the US Constitution and violated that promise. And for what? To uphold the vile institution of slavery! And before anyone starts in with the revisionist excuse that it was really about "state's rights" - please read the articles of succession in which upholding the practice of slavery was given as a paramount reason.
105
SES,
Right on the money. The only "states rights" the seceding states wanted to protect was their right to own other human beings as slaves. Any other argument is pure spin.
Right on the money. The only "states rights" the seceding states wanted to protect was their right to own other human beings as slaves. Any other argument is pure spin.
51
Secession.
2
That's completely wrong.
There are no "traitors" in a civil war.
There are no "traitors" in a civil war.
what other country has monuments to traitors?
89
Not to defend slavery--it's abhorrent and the monuments should come down. Still, whether one is a traitor or not somewhat depends on the eye of the beholder. Nathan Hale, for instance, was hanged as a traitor.
Abraham Lincoln was wise enough to see that labeling folks as traitors and treating them as such would be simply be more destructive in the wake of the most awful war this country has ever seen. I'm willing to go with Lincoln on this one.
Abraham Lincoln was wise enough to see that labeling folks as traitors and treating them as such would be simply be more destructive in the wake of the most awful war this country has ever seen. I'm willing to go with Lincoln on this one.
1
How ignorant that an Ole Miss football player understands so little history.
How frightening that we live in an era when words that express different views from our own, are said to be dangerous and "unsafe."
Unsafe to learning and critical thinking perhaps.
How frightening that we live in an era when words that express different views from our own, are said to be dangerous and "unsafe."
Unsafe to learning and critical thinking perhaps.
4
I, a fifth-generation Mississippian, was born in Oxford, graduated from Ole Miss, where my mother was the reference librarian and my father had been on the ROTC faculty. I just got back from fishing in British Columbia with 4 old friends wearing "Ole Miss" fishing shirts. But I cannot live there anymore. Now I live in Maine and teach courses on the Civil War at University of Maine in Augusta Senior College. You left out that John Kennedy included LQC Lamar in "Profiles in Courage." As Alice said "Curioser and curioser." My Name "Feagin" was invented about 1750 by Uncle Ned Feagin and every Feagin but one who served in the Civil War was a Confederate. Now, on Facebook, about half of us are African-American. Even curioser. In conclusion, all I can say is "Go figure."
5
It would appear that New England should follow suit with Mississippi in purging the state of honored slave traders. Apparently, though, New England thinks it's exempt from this whole process. Mississippi appears to be trying harder and doing a much better job.