Trillions of dollars turned over to the CIA vermin, who lose every conflict and make the world a radically more dangerous place for all of us.
20
Yes we backed the rebels to please Saudis, Israelis, and Turks. Spent $billions to placate these countries. Let them do their own dirty work and give us taxpayer our money back! Syria was never a threat to us.
19
Every year the Senate reads George Washington's "Farewell Address", and every year they ignore it. One of the costliest in lives and treasure is year after year ignoring:
"The nation which indulges towards another an habitual hatred, or an habitual fondness, is in some degree a slave. It is a slave to its animosity or to its affection, either of which is sufficient to lead it astray from its duty and its interest. Antipathy in one nation against another disposes each more readily to offer insult and injury, to lay hold of slight causes of umbrage, and to be haughty and intractable when accidental or trifling occasions of dispute occur."
"The nation which indulges towards another an habitual hatred, or an habitual fondness, is in some degree a slave. It is a slave to its animosity or to its affection, either of which is sufficient to lead it astray from its duty and its interest. Antipathy in one nation against another disposes each more readily to offer insult and injury, to lay hold of slight causes of umbrage, and to be haughty and intractable when accidental or trifling occasions of dispute occur."
9
Lesson for any ally in the world how American leadership will treat you when you risk you life and family thinking you have a partner in US.
1
As another reader points out below, this never had the chance to succeed. It shouldn't have even if it could because despite the propaganda points expounded especially by the like of McCain, Graham and the neo-con war-mongers, they did not represent the will of the vast majority of Syrians, even the Sunnis. This Potemkin-village style army was a complete phony force from the beginning. Journalists and investigators from around the world who did any SERIOUS digging found them to be either jihadists, mercenaries or outright psychopaths, the latter who only joined so that they could be allowed to murder legally, that made up the bulk of this so-called force.
9
“In many ways, I would put the blame on the Obama administration,” Mr. Lister said of the C.I.A. program.
And at a cost of $10,000,000 per Syrian rebel yielded, Obama should recommend additional funding? And Mister Lister is throwing blame around?
And at a cost of $10,000,000 per Syrian rebel yielded, Obama should recommend additional funding? And Mister Lister is throwing blame around?
10
We got involved in Syria to create a corridor for a natural gas pipeline from Kuwait to Europe, via Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Syria, and Turkey. This would have enabled us to put price pressure on Russian gas exports, limiting their budget, and perhaps ultimately lead to Putin's ouster.
It's no wonder Russia got involved. So much for our Plan A.
Fortunately, we've moved on to Plan B, bringing in liquified natural gas to new terminals being built across Europe. This will have the extra benefit of adding U.S. natural gas to the supply mix. LNG can't compete on price, so we won't be able to pressure Russia quite like we planned, but we can at least guarantee supply and establish a de facto price cap.
As such, our only reason to stay involved in Syria is to control overland routes from Iran to Hezbollah. We should succeed in this limited mission by using more effective proxies such as the Kurds in central Syria.
It's no wonder Russia got involved. So much for our Plan A.
Fortunately, we've moved on to Plan B, bringing in liquified natural gas to new terminals being built across Europe. This will have the extra benefit of adding U.S. natural gas to the supply mix. LNG can't compete on price, so we won't be able to pressure Russia quite like we planned, but we can at least guarantee supply and establish a de facto price cap.
As such, our only reason to stay involved in Syria is to control overland routes from Iran to Hezbollah. We should succeed in this limited mission by using more effective proxies such as the Kurds in central Syria.
6
Dear President Trump, Congratulations for becoming the POTUS ! You're a great man, a great leader, a great global business builder and one of the most charismatic and honest people Ive ever seen. The constraints placed on you by the "office" are overly constricting and do not allow you to fully MAGA. It seems to be a poor fit, no one wins, no one loses, just a poor fit. Allow the American people, the people that love and believe in you, to be your shepard, your guide into a journey where the light that emulates from your presence be captured and delivered from a position of utter freedom. You are in control, the American People need your guidance, allows us, not Congress, not the DOJ, to be the shepards at your feet as the waters separate and you cross into that space of freedom - into the privacy and unbridled world of Trump Tower - your golden home of peace and serenity - into the light. Allow it to happen and you will flourish knowing you can answer to a higher authority and will only then be in a position to MAGA. Time is of the essence, move with steadfast speed and agility as the light that shines may dim. Your servants - the American People.
6
I really love Obama and I believe he was one of the best presidents the US ever had, but his Libya and Syria policies were foolishly naive. The fact that Bush jr.'s invasion of Iraq was a total clusterfxxx doesn't excuse Obama's naivety.
Yes, Gaddafi was a bloody dictator slaughtering innocents and Assad still is, but they were/are less evil than the Islamists. There are no and never were, any democratic moderate forces in the whole middle-east.
We should really stay well clear of these civil wars and not take sides.
Yes, Gaddafi was a bloody dictator slaughtering innocents and Assad still is, but they were/are less evil than the Islamists. There are no and never were, any democratic moderate forces in the whole middle-east.
We should really stay well clear of these civil wars and not take sides.
10
Just another wast of taxpayer hard earned money.
10
Now see here, Mr Medvedev, Trump is doing what Putin tells him in Syria. You got that, and you got political turmoil in the USA. He is a good employee, don't hurt his sensitive feelings with criticism just because he gets one thing wrong.
1
What an amazingly disingenuous headline and story. President Trump simply ended an ill conceived program initiated by President Obama and then hamstrung by impossible rules of engagement so that it ended up completely ineffective and a waste of money. Entire stupid program should have been terminated with extreme prejudice years ago.
If you want to place blame, place it squarely where it belongs: on President Obama for an ill conceived program and on his administration's impractical views on how to fight this war.
If you want to place blame, place it squarely where it belongs: on President Obama for an ill conceived program and on his administration's impractical views on how to fight this war.
14
Anyone who believes the CIA is anything other than monumentally incompetent needs their head examined. Their culture prevents them from seeing the world as it is. And that world is not American....
10
Lessons Learned
1.You must have a clear cut vision of what you want to achieve keeping in view your national interests, chances of its success as well as the unintended consequences
2.We must avoid Gung-ho operations-they ultimately fail i.e. Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya Yemen etc
3. Once it has been decided to intervene,then it should be backed by full plotical commitment at the highest level and with full human, financial and material resources. Half hearted attempts lead to nowhere
1.You must have a clear cut vision of what you want to achieve keeping in view your national interests, chances of its success as well as the unintended consequences
2.We must avoid Gung-ho operations-they ultimately fail i.e. Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya Yemen etc
3. Once it has been decided to intervene,then it should be backed by full plotical commitment at the highest level and with full human, financial and material resources. Half hearted attempts lead to nowhere
5
I just hope we don't forget the Special Operations Soldier who died in Syria supporting these operations. His life is far more precious than the billion we spent. Regardless of our policies, his sacrifice is supreme and should never be forgotten.
3
Good idea.
Syrian rebels include ISIS plus, Syria is just not our problem.
For that matter let's shutdown our activities in Afghanistan. It is also not our problem.
Syrian rebels include ISIS plus, Syria is just not our problem.
For that matter let's shutdown our activities in Afghanistan. It is also not our problem.
13
So as I thought the Obama administration helped prolong the Syrian civil war which has resulted in so much misery and millions of refugees. This is what Obama termed "smart power". Assad is no angel, but the attempt to implement regime change was not smart and has made matters much, much worse.
15
If the Middle East nations want to form true republics and representative democracies, Islam will first need to have its own Age of Enlightenment as the West went through with Christendom in the 17-18th centuries.
Until then, give me secular dictators who can be reasoned with to rule the Middle East any day of the week over failed states and Islamic zealots.
Until then, give me secular dictators who can be reasoned with to rule the Middle East any day of the week over failed states and Islamic zealots.
10
I look forward to the approaching crash of the US Empire. Maybe then our newspapers and reporters will once again see something wrong with bombing and sowing chaos in sovereign nations outside the bounds of international law, and without a declaration of war. It is shameful the way our nation has funded for-hire mercenary jihadists in the Middle East, beginning with Osama Bin Laden in the 1980s, and continuing endlessly since then. Worked out great for Raytheon and Halliburton, but not so much for the safety and security and future prospects of the people of the United States. The breathless reporting of war crimes in this story being presented like the descriptions of attendee costuming at an awards show is beyond Kafkaesque. No wonder the world is so scared of us - they should be.
18
Despite the fact that the Assad regime has destroyed people, cities, and moralities, creating more problems by its very existence than any other Middle east faction over the last half dozen years, the American people can seemingly only focus on the dangers of small groups of militant Muslims who swear jihad on Westerners. I guess the image of a smiling mass murderer just doesn't create the visceral threat of a Muslim with a gun.
1
Exact same can be said of LIncoln
The thing what most Americans don't realize is who is going to get all the contracts for rebuilding Syria is not America once again. It is going to be China once again getting to rebuild another country. Syria gave China, Russia, Iran priority over rebuilding Syria. So all in all America looks like the biggest loser and rightfully so it should be ashamed of itself. It is like this Americans how would you like it if say Russia said at that time Mr. Obama must go even though he is liked by most Americans. Then Obama said no my people love me then Russia said fine we will just go in and covertly get rid of you. That is exactly what happened in Syria. The media has only shown you one side of the story all along. If you really want to know what Syria is like all you have to do is go to the govt controlled areas of Syria and you will see it for yourself it is rebuilding and beautiful where as the so called rebel held area is a war zone.
10
Very well said. Unfortunately the American public is brainwashed like sheep as our government uses the news media to push their agendas. There is no public outcry about the billions spent for war which should be used instead to help the American people. Americans first!
5
When it comes to American wars, when has the military brass or CIA units participating in military action ever wanted to concede defeat regardless of their own internal assessments marked confidential to conceal the truth from the public or Congress? Propaganda at its finest.
10
You must come from the John McCain school of military strategy.
Our support of the Syrian "rebels" was Cold War proxy fighting at its worst. It was aimed at nothing nobler than countering the Russians' support of Assad. It never had any chance of succeeding, needlessly prolonged the war, and likely led directly to several hundred thousand additional refugees-not one of whom we are willing to admit into our country. It was a mistake from first to last, and Trump deserves credit for ending it. Though I have seen a few op-ed pieces characterizing the decision as Trump "knuckling user" to Putin. Anyone expressing this opinion should open their own home to at least ten Syrian refugees.
27
Foreign policy professionals of both parties did not learn from disastrous regime change mistakes in Iraq or Libya. They apparently forgot any long term lessons learned from the support of Islamist jihadists in Afghanistan during the 80's. While it may have had a positive effect in aiding the collapse of the USSR, it resulted in a nation brutalized and further regressed by Taliban rule.
Unfortunately, even NY Times editorials, columns by Richard Cohen, and news articles very sympathetic to the rebels (often penned by Ann Barnard) appeared to support the ill conceived regime change efforts in Syria.
No credible post regime change plan was floated as an outcome of this civil war -- especially by its proponents. Advocating for regime change while ignoring or giving curt treatment to this especially crucial issue is irresponsible and very troubling.
It was obvious from the beginning that there were no good outcomes, nor any viable "good guys" w/regard to a Syrian civil war. The nature of the schisms pointed to religious/tribalistic/sectarian motivations. The most powerful "home grown" rebels were Al Qaeda or ISIS in nature. There was no logic nor evidence that indicated that "moderate" rebels would be dominant. Promoting an escalation of a Syrian civil war for a lost cause or such that even worse outcomes were more likely should have indicated that prolonging such a tragic war should have been seen as a crime against humanity.
Unfortunately, even NY Times editorials, columns by Richard Cohen, and news articles very sympathetic to the rebels (often penned by Ann Barnard) appeared to support the ill conceived regime change efforts in Syria.
No credible post regime change plan was floated as an outcome of this civil war -- especially by its proponents. Advocating for regime change while ignoring or giving curt treatment to this especially crucial issue is irresponsible and very troubling.
It was obvious from the beginning that there were no good outcomes, nor any viable "good guys" w/regard to a Syrian civil war. The nature of the schisms pointed to religious/tribalistic/sectarian motivations. The most powerful "home grown" rebels were Al Qaeda or ISIS in nature. There was no logic nor evidence that indicated that "moderate" rebels would be dominant. Promoting an escalation of a Syrian civil war for a lost cause or such that even worse outcomes were more likely should have indicated that prolonging such a tragic war should have been seen as a crime against humanity.
22
note: I am sorry; there needs to be correction for an error --"...columns by Roger Cohen ..." -- it should be Roger, not Richard.
2
The opposition group that we supported was the only Arab nationalist force in the region that was not Jihadist. The Arab Spring gave us the opportunity, or at least the hope, that oppressive governments, such as the Assad regime which had ruled Syria and acted as a tool of the Russians for decades could be taken down. Sadly, with Russian pressure in support of Assad and lack of support by the US, that no longer seems to be possible for the foreseeable future. A moderate Syria similar to Tunisia was the hope, or a sectarian democracy such as neighboring Lebanon. We lost an opportunity to counter Russian policy in the Middle East and will pay for decades to come.
1
Wow. How about we let Syria decide what's best for Syria? Democracy and self-determination of nations? Is it your job of that of the US to decide which foreign governments should and should not be "taken down"?
I wish you could hear yourself talk, because you sound like you're manipulating a machine, but in fact it's nations and human beings you're talking about. Wow.
I wish you could hear yourself talk, because you sound like you're manipulating a machine, but in fact it's nations and human beings you're talking about. Wow.
13
Even if it had "succeeded" the project would have been a Libya style failure.
The main advocate of the operation was Saudi Arabia and the US was in essence doing their bidding. It didn't help that CIA director Brennan had strong Saudi connections.
The project never had a clear goal beyond overthrowing Assad. Most "moderates" were opportunists who liked the spoils of being on the winning side of a revolution. True moderates were bound to be sidelined as the Saudi's didn't appreciate their efforts to negotiate with Assad in order to stop the blood shed.
The Russian intervention finally robbed the project of its last traces of credibility. Russian bombers were an important factor, but at least as important were their contribution to the "reconciliation" efforts. By stressing "reconciliation" they offered truly moderate rebels a way out. Truces, evacuation to Idlib and reconciliation may sound like betrayal to arm chair war mongers in the West and Saudi Arabia, but they are serious options for war weary rebels who previously saw fighting to death or (unlikely) victory as the only option.
But this doesn't mean that anything has been learned. In Yemen the US is still following the Saudi agenda slavishly. The problems with this operation are very similar: weak local support, divisions among the supported factions and morally dubious allies.
The main advocate of the operation was Saudi Arabia and the US was in essence doing their bidding. It didn't help that CIA director Brennan had strong Saudi connections.
The project never had a clear goal beyond overthrowing Assad. Most "moderates" were opportunists who liked the spoils of being on the winning side of a revolution. True moderates were bound to be sidelined as the Saudi's didn't appreciate their efforts to negotiate with Assad in order to stop the blood shed.
The Russian intervention finally robbed the project of its last traces of credibility. Russian bombers were an important factor, but at least as important were their contribution to the "reconciliation" efforts. By stressing "reconciliation" they offered truly moderate rebels a way out. Truces, evacuation to Idlib and reconciliation may sound like betrayal to arm chair war mongers in the West and Saudi Arabia, but they are serious options for war weary rebels who previously saw fighting to death or (unlikely) victory as the only option.
But this doesn't mean that anything has been learned. In Yemen the US is still following the Saudi agenda slavishly. The problems with this operation are very similar: weak local support, divisions among the supported factions and morally dubious allies.
9
The FSA hasnt existed in reality since 2015. Those advances mentioned in the article were mostly accomplished using Al-Nusra (today they have a different name but the same Islamism) fighters and money. The FSA were controlled by Al-Nusra and the CIA turned a blind eye to this.
The TOW missles mentioned were essentially directed by Al-Nusra and shot by "FSA" soldiers who maintained a fictional separation from Al-Nusra to get free missles.
The CIA blundered into this job and now they blunder out, only causing deaths. The only fighting force we can and should trust are the Kurds. We should be fighting to restore Assad and carve out an autonomous zone or nation for the Kurds. Assad has the support of every religious minority in Syria besides the Kurds. If he falls. there will be a sectarian bloodbath of Alawites, Christians, Shia and Druze.
Assad is evil, but he is the lesser evil in this situation. Unless we are willing to invade and annex Syria then we must admit reality exists.
The TOW missles mentioned were essentially directed by Al-Nusra and shot by "FSA" soldiers who maintained a fictional separation from Al-Nusra to get free missles.
The CIA blundered into this job and now they blunder out, only causing deaths. The only fighting force we can and should trust are the Kurds. We should be fighting to restore Assad and carve out an autonomous zone or nation for the Kurds. Assad has the support of every religious minority in Syria besides the Kurds. If he falls. there will be a sectarian bloodbath of Alawites, Christians, Shia and Druze.
Assad is evil, but he is the lesser evil in this situation. Unless we are willing to invade and annex Syria then we must admit reality exists.
15
The Syrian conflict was brought to you by the mass television media. Like any number of our recent interventions in the Arab world, we are shown images of awful things happening, and the television media asks, "Why aren't we doing anything?" Knowing full well that in X amount of years, if they have pushed us to intervene, they'll be saying "questions need to be asked about why the government put us into another unwinnable situation". The print media has fortunately been sobered by its initial support of the Iraq War. There is no victory for the US in Syria. It's bad guys on every side. If we topple Assad we give ISIS more room to grow. It seems the government thinks we're making progress on ISIS, but their ideology has been already been spread. Their threat to the West has never been greater. We may kill leaders but we can't kill a system of beliefs. At least not in the short term. Obama was right that we need to pivot to Asia. There are no actionable objectives for us in the Middle East.
8
The one basic question remains conspicuously absent in even this NYT reports. When it comes to successes/failures, what had really been the goals of the programs? Is it to tear down a government in Syria that US had worked with for decades but had since fallen out of flavor? Is it for humanitarian reasons? Russian involvement or not, ultimately Americans have the right to demand answers as to why we are injecting ourselves (and spending $1b+ on it) into someone else's wars that were never meant to be our fight.
In the end, money wasted, lives lost, homes and cities ruined, and we are at a loss as to why we were there in the first place. Worse yet, hatred of Americans have become such rallying cry of all fronts in that region because, surprise, no one wanted us there.
Trump is never to my liking, but this is one decision that I find myself in total agreement with him, and no one (yes, including Obama!) had the guts to mention the elephant in the room or do the obvious (to end our involvement in that god-forsaken region).
In the end, money wasted, lives lost, homes and cities ruined, and we are at a loss as to why we were there in the first place. Worse yet, hatred of Americans have become such rallying cry of all fronts in that region because, surprise, no one wanted us there.
Trump is never to my liking, but this is one decision that I find myself in total agreement with him, and no one (yes, including Obama!) had the guts to mention the elephant in the room or do the obvious (to end our involvement in that god-forsaken region).
16
The roots of this debacle lie with Pres. Obama and his sycophant White House aides. Obama has, since college, considered the US to be an "imperialist" power, and one of his primary goals was to withdraw the US from global involvement. This, predictably, created power vacuums in nearly every region of the world. Sensing weakness, these vacuums were promptly filled by Putin, China, Iran, N. Korea, ISIS, Baku Harem, and others. Thus, the mess we find ourselves in.
Obama, notoriously soft on Russia long before those giddy "reset" days, weakened any resistance to Assad, a key Russian ally, from the beginning. He managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory and allowed Russia to dominate the area. The Syrian people never had a chance.
Obama, notoriously soft on Russia long before those giddy "reset" days, weakened any resistance to Assad, a key Russian ally, from the beginning. He managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory and allowed Russia to dominate the area. The Syrian people never had a chance.
Its alarming how many times we here that support for the Commander in Chief will be given or taken away by comments about issues that may be perceived and taken personally by government workers like the CIA or FBI or NSA. If these people are that unprofessional to blur the lines of decisions based on outcomes, i.e., removing a program that isn't working, or criticizing deficiencies within our agencies, then those persons should be fired. Loyalty to your country & leader, Trump should be a given, and not a calculation of whether you like the policy or words of the day. If you flip that easy, your thin-skinned, and narcissistic and should not be carrying a weapon to begin with. Trump speaks tough and honest, which is refreshing to many, and uncomfortable to a lot in DC who want everything dumbed down so we the people don't know what has been going on with our tax $$ and slush funds and lobbyist. For any employee to then sabotage, leak or rebel like a child, is an employee that should be out on the street and not worthy to enjoy the privilege of working in government or military. Most military I know are NOT that type of people, but after Obama, who knows. As for the intelligence agencies, Comey has proven the most embarrassing example of narcissist and failure to respect the people who elected the President to be his boss. He demeanor and lies about Trump, prove him to be one that cannot and would not be the leader Trump needs to run the FBI, Clinton free because of him
2
For some reason I am unable to point out the glaring flaws in this comment. I guess it's forbidden to contradict anyone who loves Trump more than logic.
2
Interesting how completely wrong this is. Trump is not tough and honest, he is cowardly and a liar. He lies all the time, brazenly, like claiming the president of Mexico and the King of the Boy Scouts both called him to praise him mightily, and neither one did.
People who leak things about Trump's administration are acting out of loyalty to the nation, which is where their loyalty really belongs. Duty, honor, and country are what are important, not fealty to King Trump.
I know you're probably incapable of remedying your lack of knowledge or accepting that you're wrong, like all the determined Trump followers, but you are actually wrong, and I just thought it'd be good to point that out for other readers.
People who leak things about Trump's administration are acting out of loyalty to the nation, which is where their loyalty really belongs. Duty, honor, and country are what are important, not fealty to King Trump.
I know you're probably incapable of remedying your lack of knowledge or accepting that you're wrong, like all the determined Trump followers, but you are actually wrong, and I just thought it'd be good to point that out for other readers.
2
Sorry but anyone who thinks Trump is honest, after all his constant lies, is a bit unclear on reality. I owe my allegiance to Duty, Honor, and Country. I owe nothing to that liar Trump.
2
you mean Putin ended the program!
3
Should we have the C.I.A. setting and implementing foreign policy? NO MORE. Meanwhile it's only a matter of time before Robt Muller says "guess what, it wasn't the Russians."
12
No doubt, Mr. Mueller will find that it was Trump's team that connected with Russia to collude on subverting our elections, and not the other way around. Also, the CIA was ordered to do this Syrian thing, they didn't decide to do it on their own.
2
There is not a big difference between the " moderate" rebels and Al Nusra. One of those vetted moderate groups we supported for awhile chopped the head off a captured teenager and filmed it for the world. Kind of embarrassing who we support while bringing the blessings of liberty to the benighted foreigners.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nour_al-Din_al-Zenki_Movement
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nour_al-Din_al-Zenki_Movement
15
True enough, barbarity is the Syrian way of life, and should be expected. The only way to stop that war would have been complete invasion and occupation, then decades of re-education to eliminate the current culture.
However, climate change will stop this war since nobody else can, the water will run out and nobody will be able to live in Syria ever again. And it will be peaceful.
However, climate change will stop this war since nobody else can, the water will run out and nobody will be able to live in Syria ever again. And it will be peaceful.
2
The barbarism came from the west through illegal bombing and funding of mercenary warriors intent on destroying the country, with funding from US taxpayers. Let's have a global poll on who the barbarians really are in the last 15 years or so, and see how much your opinion really matters to most people, Mr. Stackhouse.
But maybe you don't really mean any of the things you say. Maybe you're just trying to boost your Raytheon and Boeing stock performance for next quarter. And the eugenics-type argument against Syrians is very 1930s chic, darling - very chic these days, apparently.
But maybe you don't really mean any of the things you say. Maybe you're just trying to boost your Raytheon and Boeing stock performance for next quarter. And the eugenics-type argument against Syrians is very 1930s chic, darling - very chic these days, apparently.
3
Why don't you this in Libya, Iraq, Afganistan then? Why do you want to desroy Sirya, the only christian contry in the region?
1
The real question that readers should be asking is, "What U.S. political faction demanded this covert support for Syrian rebels in the first place." Our wars, secret and not, have constituencies --powerful domestic groups who press the Administration and Congress for funding and support. What constituency was behind the assault on the Assad government? Whose interests were served? Ours, or those of a friendly foreign power?
15
First, these actions in Syria and other areas are covert and secret only to the American people. Second, it would be interesting to know the calculus employed by advocates of such measures to determine how many innocent lives, how much destruction of a nation's infrastructure and cultural monuments is considered an acceptable justification of using our tax dollars to such ends? Third, when the history of this period is written, do we really wish to be immortalized alongside our client state Israel as having shown complete indifference to concepts like national sovereignty and international law, let alone basic human decency?
13
Falsely optimistic reports pervade assistance programs. The contractors flatter, bribe, threaten and cajole (come to think of it, they behave much like Mr. Trump) in their fight to keep USG funds coming. The actual program results can be good, bad or indifferent -- no matter, the flattering verbiage in the reports is the same.
The USG employees who supervise are sometimes contractors themselves and, even if they are actual USG employees or military service people, have their eyes out for retirement employment opportunities.
The result: we know nothing about how these programs actually work. I have long suspected that the victorious ISIS sweep was enabled by falsely rosy reports of results of training programs for the Iraqi military. (From the Iraqi soldiers' point of view, they will go through the motions that the foreigners with money want, but when it comes to doing something serious, like risk life and limb to protect land or populations not belonging to their tribal or ethnic group -- forget it. They are not about to do that. )
Our funding these programs make sense only if we are supporting and reinforcing a genuinely felt movement. Holding out money in return for a hollow promise to be against x or y group will just result in our spending money, not in our accomplishing our goal.
The USG employees who supervise are sometimes contractors themselves and, even if they are actual USG employees or military service people, have their eyes out for retirement employment opportunities.
The result: we know nothing about how these programs actually work. I have long suspected that the victorious ISIS sweep was enabled by falsely rosy reports of results of training programs for the Iraqi military. (From the Iraqi soldiers' point of view, they will go through the motions that the foreigners with money want, but when it comes to doing something serious, like risk life and limb to protect land or populations not belonging to their tribal or ethnic group -- forget it. They are not about to do that. )
Our funding these programs make sense only if we are supporting and reinforcing a genuinely felt movement. Holding out money in return for a hollow promise to be against x or y group will just result in our spending money, not in our accomplishing our goal.
9
Our foreign policy establishment does n't know that it's impossible to step from a tribal society to a democratic one?
1
Next its time to leave Afghanistan too! Too many shady "partners" are making money off the US backs while we lose young Americans and spend countless dollars there for what we all know is, but are afraid to say " is a lost cause and worst investment in resources ever! Time to leave, although the Pakistanis, and Afghan government will surely miss the billions they stole from US funding. Anyone recover that "missing" billion dollars of cash on cargo palette that 60 minutes reported on? I could only imagine what that trillion dollars we wasted in this war could have been used for
11
It would be interesting to know what Trump and Putin discussed at their private dinner meeting. Maybe Trump agreed not to attack Assad, Putin's ally. Maybe this was one of the prices Trump had to pay for Russian support in the election of something else. The US defunding announcement happened days after that meeting. Anyway it left the US's Syrian allies high and dry. What kind of message does that send to other US allies or potential allies. It does send a message that Russia stands by their protégés.
2
Please add Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, and every other needless operation to the defunding list.
These proxy wars create millions of refugee/immigrants who would rather stay in their own homelands.
War Reform = Immigration Reform
These proxy wars create millions of refugee/immigrants who would rather stay in their own homelands.
War Reform = Immigration Reform
15
Wait!!! Fighting by these rebels, while justifiable, contributed heavily to the total destruction of Syria. They positioned themselves in various places in the country. The Syrian air force, and later the Russians, massively bombed the rebel locations , destroying the structures and vast numbers of Syrians. And ,all for naught. They could not defeat the Syrian army and then the Russians, with their vast air war resources.
4
I see many comments here criticizing the program and praising Trump for shutting it down. What are we to do when a dictator uses chemical weapons on his own people? Even after the chemical weapons were supposed to be gone, do you remember the "barrel bombs" with chlorine gas dumped out of Russian helicopters onto areas occupied by civilians? Are we to stand aside, allow this behavior, and state proudly "I'm not getting involved!"
There is much to be said both for and against involvement. I believe Obama took a middle road, after being threatened with impeachment by McCain if direct military action was taken. Blame the Syria crisis on the Republicans, who refused to act after threatening Obama.
There is much to be said both for and against involvement. I believe Obama took a middle road, after being threatened with impeachment by McCain if direct military action was taken. Blame the Syria crisis on the Republicans, who refused to act after threatening Obama.
6
Yeah because thats what really matters here. being able to put the blame on the Republicans. As long as its their fault we are all good, right?
1
First of all, establish proof that Assad actually used chemical weapons on his people, instead of relying on the White Helmets and other Anglo-Saxon astroturf nonsense from the UK and other places with no skin in the game. Then, work through the proper international channels and use diplomacy, in accordance with international law. If proof of wrongdoing is found, seek redress.
And to hold McCain up as some peace-loving blockade to Obama's warmongering is a sick, sick joke - his fingerprints are all over our aggression in Syria, and have been from the beginning.
And to hold McCain up as some peace-loving blockade to Obama's warmongering is a sick, sick joke - his fingerprints are all over our aggression in Syria, and have been from the beginning.
4
Thank you President Trump for ending this outrageous CIA program. I'd like to see the CIA budget reduced by $10 or $20 billion.
17
I think the founding fathers would have been aghast that we manipulate governments abroad, regardless of the fact of how often it backfires. Take a look:
http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/CIAtimeline.html
It's always a handful of paranoid people who think America will fall part somehow if we are not invested in manipulating and causing the wholesale slaughter of other people. Look at Vietnam, how many people's sad viewpoint caused the death of maybe a million people? Twenty? Ten? Absolutely horrifying. In retrospect almost all admit they made a boo-boo. Somehow we have to make a million lives a little more boo-boo proof.
We have to figure out how to take power out of the hands of a handful of people who like to play chess on the backs of citizens around the world that have no dog in these fights. I think there is a mentality that the world cannot get along with this constant chaos, much of it engineered by a handful of people going back thousands of years.
We could have left a sleeping dog lie in the middle east, but the CIA willful lie of WMD came along, how many deaths, in total for poking that dog with a stick?
http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/CIAtimeline.html
It's always a handful of paranoid people who think America will fall part somehow if we are not invested in manipulating and causing the wholesale slaughter of other people. Look at Vietnam, how many people's sad viewpoint caused the death of maybe a million people? Twenty? Ten? Absolutely horrifying. In retrospect almost all admit they made a boo-boo. Somehow we have to make a million lives a little more boo-boo proof.
We have to figure out how to take power out of the hands of a handful of people who like to play chess on the backs of citizens around the world that have no dog in these fights. I think there is a mentality that the world cannot get along with this constant chaos, much of it engineered by a handful of people going back thousands of years.
We could have left a sleeping dog lie in the middle east, but the CIA willful lie of WMD came along, how many deaths, in total for poking that dog with a stick?
13
Hoorah for President Trump. Although I did not vote for him, he has done a good thing. Anything that curtails the national security military industrial complex (the complex) is a good thing.
The NYT did mention the dollar cost, but how about the human cost of lives in Syria purchased by the 'complex'? How many Syrian civilians died? How many fighters? This program prolonged a stupid war and so caused the destruction of how many homes and businesses? How many people were forced into displaced person camps because of arming the Syrian rebels?
So the CIA lost a program and may be retaliating against President Trump because of his opposition to one of its killing programs? Let's hope the President shuts down more deadly killing programs.
The NYT did mention the dollar cost, but how about the human cost of lives in Syria purchased by the 'complex'? How many Syrian civilians died? How many fighters? This program prolonged a stupid war and so caused the destruction of how many homes and businesses? How many people were forced into displaced person camps because of arming the Syrian rebels?
So the CIA lost a program and may be retaliating against President Trump because of his opposition to one of its killing programs? Let's hope the President shuts down more deadly killing programs.
24
Of course, Obama did everything possible to not support the rebels and was hounded into it.
6
“In many ways, I would put the blame on the Obama administration,” Mr. Lister said of the C.I.A. program. “They never gave it the necessary resources or space to determine the dynamics of the battlefield. They were drip-feeding opposition groups just enough to survive but never enough to become dominant actors.”
If you can't figure out how to get any traction in a military campaign with a billion dollars, Mr. Lister, let me be the first to suggest that you find another line of work.
If you can't figure out how to get any traction in a military campaign with a billion dollars, Mr. Lister, let me be the first to suggest that you find another line of work.
23
About time!
And then we worry about the "possible" Russian interference in our elections! When the US does interfere it is with direct intervention in a civil war! We should learn to mind our own business....
And then we worry about the "possible" Russian interference in our elections! When the US does interfere it is with direct intervention in a civil war! We should learn to mind our own business....
24
US exceptionalism dictates that the issue of "hypocrisy" cannot be raised in the media narrative on the alleged Russian meddling.
10
Because of Obama's typically indolent manner and his particular mode of "governance" which was to use 'presidential findings' to attempt to subvert the democratic process American's use, Congress never had the opportunity to hash this out and craft a program with clearly stated goals, funding, and execution.
Obama gets a free pass for his mediocre presidency and anti-democratic methods and I put this down to racism.
Obama gets a free pass for his mediocre presidency and anti-democratic methods and I put this down to racism.
8
The CIA arming of "rebels" to overthrow any government is called terrorism, plain and simple. Henry Kissinger as a National Security Advisor to Nixon said.. "The US must make use of terrorism as a centerpiece of our foreign policy goals".
The CIA and many in our government fully support that philosophy.
The CIA and many in our government fully support that philosophy.
19
When did he say that? I am no fan of his but I don't recall that quote from the Nixon tapes.
4
Kissinger wouldn't use the term "terrorism" in that context - he'd substitute one of the accepted euphemisms, "freedom fighting", "pacification" etc.
7
He used the words "terrorism and counterterrorism" as policy. And he also said..
"Military men are just dumb, stupid animals to be used as pawns in foreign policy".
"Military men are just dumb, stupid animals to be used as pawns in foreign policy".
4
The CIA needs to be audited and its criminal activity exposed for what it is. Its history of recent abuse and torture have not been addressed. Corruption, murder, torture, all fine when painted as protecting American interests. What are those interests? We know that answer and it isn't pretty.
23
Was all of this paid for with Tax Cuts?
1
Read "Legacy of Ashes" by NYT writer Tim Weiner and you will wonder why we even have a CIA.
7
Such a sad story. After laying waste to an entire country and provoking a civil war that has killed hundreds of thousands of Syrians, the CIA is giving up on its project of installing another democracy like Saudi Arabia in the heart of the Middle East.
25
Afraid there is a bit of an odor of week old fish in Copenhagen here. But let's get to square one in The Big Game...
If having the CIA support the goal of overthrow after the trouble started was in play, why wouldn't they have been given the green light to create the problem in the first place as excuse for regime change? Done it dozens of times, check Kermit's book (Roosevelt, not the little green guy)
Occam applies.
So we should round file the narrative that it ever was working, until the dirty Russkies interfered... this piece blames air power, not tanks, as the tide turner, well... the Syrian government ALWAYS had the air there, tide never big against that. (the real CIA scenario, I bet, was Turkey would move in to implant safe zones in air and on ground in No. Syria, as the tide was made to appear turning, and that was what Moscow pre-empted.)
It is important to mark this as an over throw Op fail, and apply that lesson to future potential adventures. Like Venezuela (after all if the Gov inflated the vote by a million of the 8.3 that still means they out polled the CLAIMED and unverifiable opposition's 7.
But beyond that, Syria proved a committed organized Gov, unlike in Ukraine, can snuff out a huge conflagration. The army in Venezuela has long been Chavista to its bone marrow. If martial law is called the rebels will be, like in Syria, heading for the exits fast.)
If having the CIA support the goal of overthrow after the trouble started was in play, why wouldn't they have been given the green light to create the problem in the first place as excuse for regime change? Done it dozens of times, check Kermit's book (Roosevelt, not the little green guy)
Occam applies.
So we should round file the narrative that it ever was working, until the dirty Russkies interfered... this piece blames air power, not tanks, as the tide turner, well... the Syrian government ALWAYS had the air there, tide never big against that. (the real CIA scenario, I bet, was Turkey would move in to implant safe zones in air and on ground in No. Syria, as the tide was made to appear turning, and that was what Moscow pre-empted.)
It is important to mark this as an over throw Op fail, and apply that lesson to future potential adventures. Like Venezuela (after all if the Gov inflated the vote by a million of the 8.3 that still means they out polled the CLAIMED and unverifiable opposition's 7.
But beyond that, Syria proved a committed organized Gov, unlike in Ukraine, can snuff out a huge conflagration. The army in Venezuela has long been Chavista to its bone marrow. If martial law is called the rebels will be, like in Syria, heading for the exits fast.)
5
Seems our involvement started as far back as 2006 where millions were provided to the anti government forces in Syria, according to the Washington Post and other media outlets.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/us-secretly-backed-syrian-oppositio...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/us-secretly-backed-syrian-oppositio...
11
This is a complex issue. To resolve it, one has to simplify it to its core.
And that is: what business is, was and will be that of the United States to get involved in Syria in the first place?
The answer is: none. And from there comes the conclusion, that the 'covert' CIA operation was illegal and without merit.
The End.
And that is: what business is, was and will be that of the United States to get involved in Syria in the first place?
The answer is: none. And from there comes the conclusion, that the 'covert' CIA operation was illegal and without merit.
The End.
13
For all the show of sanctions, the Traitor in the Wig, D. Trump keeps in line with Little Putin's demands in another clear example that this traitor to the United States who sits in the Oval Office belongs to the murderer, dictator of Russia, Little Vladimir Putin.
The Republican controlled US Congress is nothing but enabling the greatest act of treachery against the American people since the Revolutionary War. Thank you McConnell, Ryan. The People will remember you for what you are.
The Republican controlled US Congress is nothing but enabling the greatest act of treachery against the American people since the Revolutionary War. Thank you McConnell, Ryan. The People will remember you for what you are.
3
Astonishing really. Pay $1 billion to support a proxy organization to do the dirty work of taking out a government leader. How cowardly and stupid. It's a great representation of how we, and nations, engage in war. With this approach and even sending in troops, it is the ordinary citizens whose lives and home are destroyed that suffer. If the President of the United States believes that the President of Syria should be ousted, he should undertake an effort to go after the Syrian President directly, saving millions of lives and property and billions of dollars. What a waste of money and innocent lives.
5
You were making sense until you said:
"If the President of the United States believes that the President of Syria should be ousted, he should undertake an effort to go after the Syrian President directly, saving millions of lives and property and billions of dollars".
The US, or any other country, does not have the right to go after any President or political leader anywhere in this world. If the US is allowed to kill Assad, then why would our own President not be subjected to the same fate?
We must be careful we don't set precedents for others to follow.
"If the President of the United States believes that the President of Syria should be ousted, he should undertake an effort to go after the Syrian President directly, saving millions of lives and property and billions of dollars".
The US, or any other country, does not have the right to go after any President or political leader anywhere in this world. If the US is allowed to kill Assad, then why would our own President not be subjected to the same fate?
We must be careful we don't set precedents for others to follow.
18
Vlad: Thank you Donald
2
The CIA was never able to accurately assess who was a moderate and who was a terrorist. The result we armed a lot of Jihdists. Glad to see the end of this wasteful, useless program.
17
“God helps those that help themselves
He will help only those who help themselves
He cannot help those who do not help themselves
Outsiders can contribute but cannot win an unconventional war by themselves.”
Douglas Pike 1966
He will help only those who help themselves
He cannot help those who do not help themselves
Outsiders can contribute but cannot win an unconventional war by themselves.”
Douglas Pike 1966
1
Millions of Dollars of tax payers money wasted to arm Al Qaeda linked terrorist groups. These people should be held accountable and prosecuted in a court of law. This is exactly why republican Tulsi Gabbard’s has introduced the stop arming terrorists bill.
10
Very few people have signed onto that bill you can guess why it is because most if not all Congress are in the pockets of the weapons industries. They are getting a lot of kickbacks from this stuff.
16
Tulsi Gabbard is a Democrat. Actually, a very progressive Democrat.
8
Even though the US now ends the once secret programme to arm the anti-Assad rebels, they aren't going anywhere or returning to civilian life. Instead they will join other Islamist groups or seek support from regional Sunni backers. And the war in Syria isn't going to end anytime soon.
Libya after the fall of the Gaddafi regime has seen thousands of militia groups who carry on fighting. In the absence of stability and prosperity many see no life or prospects beyond the battlefield.
Libya after the fall of the Gaddafi regime has seen thousands of militia groups who carry on fighting. In the absence of stability and prosperity many see no life or prospects beyond the battlefield.
7
Missing from this piece is any discussion of the fate of the Kurdish resistance to Assad that has been the only democracy-like force the conflict, and one of the only progressive forces in the Islamic world. Search "Rojava" in the Times archives and you'll learn that in the enclave they control in northeast Syria, women have equal rights (including service as armed combatants), there is religious tolerance and respect for human rights.
Should we be arming these folks? You betcha.
Should we be arming these folks? You betcha.
2
Except the Kurdish resistance was to ISIS and very effective too. Rojava is quite admirable but their prospects are not particularly good.
1
Say how does American interference in Syria compare with Russian "interference" in US elections?
I think most of the pique is just directed at RT in English being a credible alternative view point.
I think most of the pique is just directed at RT in English being a credible alternative view point.
18
he did not end this because of the cost. Putin asked him to do this at the G20. I am sure that Comrade Trump was not aware that we were arming the rebels in Syria.
3
To support oppositiongroups militarily in other, souvereign nations is against international law. And I can’t believe that individuals like David H. Petraeus or the CIA or the politicians who made these decisions are not accountable for this. The destruction that these incompetent decisions have wrought upon Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria and Jemen is just breathtaking.
21
It is all part and parcel with Cheney's trying to start a permanent regional war with him as Chief Contractor for arms, oil products and services. He and his cohorts were, and have still been tryng to start a WWIII in either the Middle East with Iran, In the Pacific with N. Korea or with Russia through using the Ukraine and the Belarus. Hillary, who has always acted like she has been an undercover Republican, was very happy to work with Soros in destabilizing the Ukraine and they are making plenty of money from the operation, I am sure. Follow the money and you will find Bush and Clinton family members.
9
What took so long? Program should have been shut under Obama. Next the WH needs to shutdown the Afghanistan money pit. Good place to find those funds the DoD needs to rebuild our military.
14
Then we can transfer all government bureaucracies to the Kremlin, and turn DC into a national park, once the great capital of a nation, taken over by traitors with wigs = D. Trump and his masters in the Kremlin.
BTW, Bayricker, does the FSB provide medical benefits?
BTW, Bayricker, does the FSB provide medical benefits?
3
@McQuicker
Sounds very much like, "Are you now or have you ever been a member of the Communist Party."
Sounds very much like, "Are you now or have you ever been a member of the Communist Party."
10
It's heartwarming to see how some liberals have embraced their inner Joseph McCarthy. Maybe there is hope for bipartisanship after all.
3
The 47 in AK-47 stands for the year it was invented. Yes, 70 years ago the Kalishinokov came to our world, and 70 years on, it's still being used all over Africa and the ME to kill thousands of people. These weapons "may" help in the short run, but these guns will be floating around the region now for another 20 years, and they're not going to be used for hunting rabbits.
2
Dear Harry,
That's true, but we don't usually supply AK-47's to people. The main suppliers are Russia and China, although a few dozen countries manufacture some variant, and while America does produce some, they're mainly for domestic consumption.
Overall though, sending weapons anywhere always insures that there will not be peace. Give people guns, and they will kill each other, that's how people are.
That's true, but we don't usually supply AK-47's to people. The main suppliers are Russia and China, although a few dozen countries manufacture some variant, and while America does produce some, they're mainly for domestic consumption.
Overall though, sending weapons anywhere always insures that there will not be peace. Give people guns, and they will kill each other, that's how people are.
4
The CIA does not learn from its mistakes. Remember when we armed Afghan rebels against the soviets. One of their leaders was none other than Osama Ben Laden.... I do not need to remind you how this turned out! Obama armed people cur from the same cloth. Their only beef with Assad is his religion. If you go back to 2011, can you name 5 rulers better than Bashar in the entire middle east or Muslim world?
These type of world events cannot be looked at in Isolation. We have a Nuclear North Korea because we killed Muammar Quadafi after he gave up his program, and we now have friendly relations with China despite calling them a rogue state for several decades. So what should our friends and enemies take away from this? You decide but the lessons are obvious as far as Korea is concerned!
These type of world events cannot be looked at in Isolation. We have a Nuclear North Korea because we killed Muammar Quadafi after he gave up his program, and we now have friendly relations with China despite calling them a rogue state for several decades. So what should our friends and enemies take away from this? You decide but the lessons are obvious as far as Korea is concerned!
17
Let's save this money and spend it on healthcare for our own citizens. None of these covert operations ever ended well, and nothing about our involvement in the Middle East and Afghanistan has ended well. In fact, we'll probably be in Iraq and Afghanistan for the unforeseeable future. And yet, we have to fight tooth and nail for healthcare coverage, like we, the citizens and taxpayers of this "great"country, are asking for way too much. What a joke!
17
But the defense contractors and companies became rich.
12
Exactly.
6
CIA's program on Syria, The State Department's program on Syria, The Pentagon's program on Syria, The NY Times' program on Syria.......
Multiple hundred thousands dead, half the nation's population displaced from homes and livelihoods, a generation of children ruined, a country in rubbles.... Bad dream. NO, all far, far away from NY. Phew!
Multiple hundred thousands dead, half the nation's population displaced from homes and livelihoods, a generation of children ruined, a country in rubbles.... Bad dream. NO, all far, far away from NY. Phew!
14
The CIA never likes to surrender to the Russians. But under Trump they will have to get used to it.
1
Yeah, we should be all manly and fight the Russians via proxies even if every last Syrian has to die for it.
5
The policy here should have been pressuring the other nations in the region to arm and assist the rebels. We sell enough arms in the Middle East so there were certainly enough to go around. Assad is a monster and should be removed, but the players in the region always rely on the US instead of using their own military and special forces to get the job done.
This is also the case with ISIS. Turkey is right there. So is Jordan and Saudi Arabia. Had they acted in the very beginning ISIS would never have grown to what is was.
The real problem is half these countries actually finance terror when it suits their self serving needs.
This area of the world will always be a mess. Religion, cultural issues, education or the lack thereof and treatment of women add to the instability.
This is also the case with ISIS. Turkey is right there. So is Jordan and Saudi Arabia. Had they acted in the very beginning ISIS would never have grown to what is was.
The real problem is half these countries actually finance terror when it suits their self serving needs.
This area of the world will always be a mess. Religion, cultural issues, education or the lack thereof and treatment of women add to the instability.
4
You seem deeply confused. The Saudis and Turkey have been arming the rebels from the beginning. Guess which ones?
7
Finally.
Defund this entirely and get out of Syria. Let these people fend for themselves.
Not another drop of American blood for these people.
Defund this entirely and get out of Syria. Let these people fend for themselves.
Not another drop of American blood for these people.
4
Your American blood is not being shed for "these people" but for the people of Wall Street.
9
American involvement in overthrowing the Syrian government is not new nor is it restricted to Asad or minority rule. As early as 1948, we interfered in Damascus’ politics. Decades before Hafiz al-Asad came to power, we worked with NATO allies, like Britain, and local Arab friends, like Iraq, to remove Sunni governments. As for minority rule, we had no problem with Saddam’s rule until he threaten our oil position.
Succeeding administrations have sold us a story about our “war on terrorism” and how we must oppose extremists. This tale falls apart in Syria. Blaming the CIA or past presidents for not doing enough, one seems to ignore that the tens of millions of dollars spent by the Gulf sheiks, or the free passage to jihadists provided by Turkey, or the safe havens for rebels along Syria's southern and northern borders.
Al Qaeda and ISIS are battling to remove Asad’s government. Every attack upon Syrian forces aids and abets our sworn enemies since 2001. Billions have been spent on Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, and now Syria. Our leaders have learned nothing.
When it comes to the terror wars, the American public is still buying a pig in a poke.
Succeeding administrations have sold us a story about our “war on terrorism” and how we must oppose extremists. This tale falls apart in Syria. Blaming the CIA or past presidents for not doing enough, one seems to ignore that the tens of millions of dollars spent by the Gulf sheiks, or the free passage to jihadists provided by Turkey, or the safe havens for rebels along Syria's southern and northern borders.
Al Qaeda and ISIS are battling to remove Asad’s government. Every attack upon Syrian forces aids and abets our sworn enemies since 2001. Billions have been spent on Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, and now Syria. Our leaders have learned nothing.
When it comes to the terror wars, the American public is still buying a pig in a poke.
14
From what I have read, allowing Assad, the Russians, and Iranian backed forces to win in Syria, was not in the long term interests of the area or the West. The Jordanians and Israelis have made that clear. Should more or less support have been given I cannot say, but I do know that President Obama was a very thoughful man, much more so than most of the comments that I have read on this story.
6
Let's see now..... according to the article, Gen. Petraeus proposed the CIA program in the summer of 2012 and Obama signed on in 2013 after intense lobbying by Israel's Netanyahu. No mention of Hillary in all this though she was an activist Secretary of State from 2009 to 2013.
Sorry, this doesn't square with the reality that we all know. How can you write a piece like this without mentioning candidate Clinton who made continued intervention in Syria the centerpiece of her foreign policy agenda??
Truth be told, Netanyahu cooked up this whole mess and Clinton went along with it.
And no mention of the massive dislocation of Syrians -- probably the greatest short term displacement of human beings since WW II if not in the history of the planet.
Fast forward to today and we see the same CIA up to its ears in regime change in Venezuela. Hmmm......they have a lot of oil too don't they. What a coincidence. Good ol imperialism. The Romans would be envious.
Sorry, this doesn't square with the reality that we all know. How can you write a piece like this without mentioning candidate Clinton who made continued intervention in Syria the centerpiece of her foreign policy agenda??
Truth be told, Netanyahu cooked up this whole mess and Clinton went along with it.
And no mention of the massive dislocation of Syrians -- probably the greatest short term displacement of human beings since WW II if not in the history of the planet.
Fast forward to today and we see the same CIA up to its ears in regime change in Venezuela. Hmmm......they have a lot of oil too don't they. What a coincidence. Good ol imperialism. The Romans would be envious.
22
And why is there no one talking about John McCain and and his buddies and the whole republican congress every day yelling " Obama is not doing enough in Syria," along with pictures on TV showing how we are letting all these people just die. Its all Obama's fault. What a crock.
10
Obama was heavily criticized by people in his own party and by liberal columnists in this paper for not doing anything in Syria, when actually we were doing a lot and making the situation worse. Partisanship is the wrong approach here-- there were idiots clamoring for yet more intervention in both parties.
8
I seem to recall that during the election Trump made all these big promises of great plans he was keeping secret that would solve all our problems in Syria, Afghanistan, and, of course, healthcare. Apparently they were so secret that once he got into office he forgot what they were.
7
Sounds strangely like the bay of pigs disaster. Indeed, when will we ever learn?
7
Right. And now Trump has to be careful and remember the Kennedy brothers.
4
Not to worry, pal, we'll always have Afghanistan.
7
"Not to worry, pal, we'll always have Afghanistan."
Four more years and we get a gold watch.
Four more years and we get a gold watch.
They really should have a sign placed in front of CIA headquarters in Langley with the words "Covert Operations Never Work!" in giant letters. The CIA invented the term "Blowback" to describe the unfortunate results of the many covert ops they ran over the course of the Cold War. Overthrowing democratic-elected leftist governments like Iran and Guatemala left horrible right-wing dictators in charge of those countries, and has led millions worldwide to hate the USA. The long history of covert US support for fundamentalist Islam (read Robert Dreyfuss' "The Devil's Game" for the full story) created the terrorists that we now fight in the Middle East. And as Alfred McCoy ("CIA Complicity in the Global Drug Trade") has proven, the CIA has repeatedly facilitated drug-running in order to fund various covert operations, to the extent of smuggling drugs into the US and undermining the DEA. [Garry Webb's "Dark Alliance" on the Contra-CIA drug connection, the "Snowfall" series on FX, the upcoming Tom Cruise film "American Made" on Barry Seal, Peter Dale Scott's "Cocaine Politics," and Douglas Valentine's books on the CIA and DEA]
24
It worked in Chile though.
Why not stop using CIA as a military service? It is supposed to gather intelligence for the President and apparently also Congress (not sure), but has evolved into rogue elements which defies both Presidents and Congress when they feel like it. They also took over the drone strikes which have become a huge element of our projection of lethal force across the world. Give it back to the Army, Air Force, Marines, or Navy which are set up for warfare, including special ops, and are obviously more accountable and operate within US and international law.
5
For a detailed analysis of the CIA using the same planes that were bringing arms to the Contras to bring back cocaine to the US, see the Kerry Contra Hearings:
https://books.google.com/books?id=9-IP6ASjCL4C&pg=PA166&lpg=PA16...
Too see the declassified documents go to National Security Archives at GWU:
http://nsarchive.gwu.edu/NSAEBB/NSAEBB2/index.html
By the way, Gary Webb, who broke the original story, committed suicide by shooting himself in the head, twice.
https://books.google.com/books?id=9-IP6ASjCL4C&pg=PA166&lpg=PA16...
Too see the declassified documents go to National Security Archives at GWU:
http://nsarchive.gwu.edu/NSAEBB/NSAEBB2/index.html
By the way, Gary Webb, who broke the original story, committed suicide by shooting himself in the head, twice.
7
How was the money spent and who profited?
10
You always start to worry when the CIA funds so called freedom fighters. Mujahideen in sheep's clothing....
9
They funded Castro against Batista until they then tried to assassinate him and then invade at the Bay of Pigs.
2
How does the CIA continue to exist? I'm writing this from Cambodia, where there were appalling consequences from their meddling 40 years ago - millions killed and tortured, a whole generation missing, government delivered into dubious hands.
In neighbouring Laos, CIA plots and misinformation resulted in more hardship, including the dropping of more bombs in a small remote area (the Plain of Jars) which consisted of more tonnage than all the bombs dropped in WWII.
Episodes like these chipped away at American confidence in their leadership and arguably started a political trajectory which has brought us to the current political shambles.
Has the CIA ever achieved any good, apart from giving modern-day cowboys a prairie to play on?
In neighbouring Laos, CIA plots and misinformation resulted in more hardship, including the dropping of more bombs in a small remote area (the Plain of Jars) which consisted of more tonnage than all the bombs dropped in WWII.
Episodes like these chipped away at American confidence in their leadership and arguably started a political trajectory which has brought us to the current political shambles.
Has the CIA ever achieved any good, apart from giving modern-day cowboys a prairie to play on?
38
They don't say "the" CIA, just CIA, just like you don't say the GOD.
remember the late Sen. Frank Church and Church Commission?
Successes?
In October 2012 the NYT wrote:
['Most of the arms shipped at the behest of Saudi Arabia and Qatar to supply Syrian rebel groups fighting the government of Bashar al-Assad are going to hard-line Islamic jihadists, and not the more secular opposition groups that the West wants to bolster, according to American officials and Middle Eastern diplomats.']
That's 2012.
In October 2012 the NYT wrote:
['Most of the arms shipped at the behest of Saudi Arabia and Qatar to supply Syrian rebel groups fighting the government of Bashar al-Assad are going to hard-line Islamic jihadists, and not the more secular opposition groups that the West wants to bolster, according to American officials and Middle Eastern diplomats.']
That's 2012.
18
That is what happened in Egypt too, when Hilary's State dept backed the Muslim Brotherhood and urged the military council to favor the election of Morsi in a less than fair voting. Dig up the Egyptian Billionaire Sawiris speech (circa 2011) at the press club when he wonders why the US supports people who are at odds with its core beliefs.
6
Interesting how the lede differs from the content and is a fine example of NYT approach to reporting: rebel support program was "hollowed out" under Trump vs. program never achieved its goals under Obama. I hope that once the Trump era is over the NYT and other media will examine their complicity in undermining the public's trust in the media and take corrective action.
6
The Obama administration is to blame for setting up the program in the first place, as opposed to simply starving it of resources. There never was a practical possibility of turning the dollars spent into a cohesive, effective force. This was the biggest CIA boondoggle since Cuba in the early 1960s. We should've stayed out of Syria, one of the few disasters around the world that we actually didn't cause or help cause. This was money thrown at a problem (in other words, wasted) -- my money, your money, taxpayer's money.
8
Our policy of arming "nice" rebels did not work. What it was doing is was arming very nasty people like al qaeda.
10
I'm with Trump on this one. Unless there is national security imperative (like N Korea) we should respect the sovereignty of nations. Plus, isn't two centuries of disastrous results not enough empirical evidence to stop messing around in MENA?
7
One of the most foolish endeavors the Obama Administration ever undertook has come to a deserved termination. "Moderate rebels"? When I heard that term for the first time, I wondered if these were the guys who only cut off one of their enemy's arms instead of both.
18
I admire President obama however he lowered his resolve to meet the expectations of military and intelligence officials. We cant get involved in factional disputes. Colin Powell called for military interventions when their was y clear cut political objectives; use of overwhelming force and a clear cut exit strategy. Our Syrian engagement did not meet this criteria. This is one that Trump got right.
4
A billion dollars? for a CIA "covert activity?"
not very covert and not a good use by ANY stretch of taxpayer money.
not very covert and not a good use by ANY stretch of taxpayer money.
7
To sum up:
1) The US government spends over $1B in a few years secretly arming and funding Assad's opponents in Syria: a country halfway around the world where the US has never declared war and has few potential allies;
2) US government and media emphasize the horrors of Assad's regime and play up the alleged existence of "moderates" as a serious force within Syria;
3) However, since these moderates do not actually exist as a serious force within Syria, many if not most of these $1B are spent on arming ISIS, al Qaeda, and their affiliates;
4) The Syrian war continues with appalling violence on both sides, but Assad comes out ahead;
5) While arming and funding ISIS and its allies in Syria, the US is simultaneously arming and funding the Iraqi Army in preparation for a massive siege against ISIS in Mosul. The appalling violence in Mosul is barely covered by US media;
6) Meanwhile, the US government insists - according to this article, even in internal discussions on how the US is funding ISIS - that fighting ISIS is the top priority;
7) Finally, the funding ends, and the foreign policy establishment whines that it was never enough, that it wasn't given a chance to succeed. Surely with time it could have succeeded even better than our covert funding of bin Laden in Soviet Afghanistan.
Imagine a country where such a patient and nurturing approach was applied to investments in its domestic welfare, rather than to investments in endless, self-perpetuating foreign wars.
1) The US government spends over $1B in a few years secretly arming and funding Assad's opponents in Syria: a country halfway around the world where the US has never declared war and has few potential allies;
2) US government and media emphasize the horrors of Assad's regime and play up the alleged existence of "moderates" as a serious force within Syria;
3) However, since these moderates do not actually exist as a serious force within Syria, many if not most of these $1B are spent on arming ISIS, al Qaeda, and their affiliates;
4) The Syrian war continues with appalling violence on both sides, but Assad comes out ahead;
5) While arming and funding ISIS and its allies in Syria, the US is simultaneously arming and funding the Iraqi Army in preparation for a massive siege against ISIS in Mosul. The appalling violence in Mosul is barely covered by US media;
6) Meanwhile, the US government insists - according to this article, even in internal discussions on how the US is funding ISIS - that fighting ISIS is the top priority;
7) Finally, the funding ends, and the foreign policy establishment whines that it was never enough, that it wasn't given a chance to succeed. Surely with time it could have succeeded even better than our covert funding of bin Laden in Soviet Afghanistan.
Imagine a country where such a patient and nurturing approach was applied to investments in its domestic welfare, rather than to investments in endless, self-perpetuating foreign wars.
53
Why am I not surprised that Netanyahu pressured Obama to arm the Syrian rebels. In 2002, he testified in Congress about Iraq's "WMD" program and exhorted Bush to invade. Today he is arming the terrorists aiming to overthrow Assad.
17
Smart move by Trump and Obama did not have his heart in such programs anyway. They were a political response to charges that we need to do something – short of committing our own troops – to solve the “problems” in Iraq and Syria.
Trump is no doubt mindful of ISIS’ taking of the city of Tikrit in 2014 and so much US equipment fell into the hands of ISIS. When Mosul fell to ISIS it was declared “a devastating defeat given that there were 30,000 Iraqi troops in the city facing 1,500 ISIS fighters. Most of the Iraqi soldiers refused to fight and fled.”
There are also so many “rebel” groups out there that it must be impossible to know which ones to support.
Tikrit was retaken the following year. Iraqi forces consisted of the Government's Security Forces and the Popular Mobilization Forces (a state-sponsored group of some 40 militias). They were assisted by Iran's Quds Force officers on the ground, and the American, British, and French air forces.
That’s a mix that might work in Syria. Although the Iraqi Government is our friend; Syria’s Government led by Bashar al-Assad is not. Also the US has designated Iran’s Quds Force a terrorist organization. (However their terrorism is surely much less than that of Joe Stalin prior to WW2 and he was openly embraced by the Allies.)
It’s not easy - but ISIS has shown itself to be an efficient fighting force and will not be defeated by rag bag groups of part-timers, armed with US weapons they probably don't know how to use..
Trump is no doubt mindful of ISIS’ taking of the city of Tikrit in 2014 and so much US equipment fell into the hands of ISIS. When Mosul fell to ISIS it was declared “a devastating defeat given that there were 30,000 Iraqi troops in the city facing 1,500 ISIS fighters. Most of the Iraqi soldiers refused to fight and fled.”
There are also so many “rebel” groups out there that it must be impossible to know which ones to support.
Tikrit was retaken the following year. Iraqi forces consisted of the Government's Security Forces and the Popular Mobilization Forces (a state-sponsored group of some 40 militias). They were assisted by Iran's Quds Force officers on the ground, and the American, British, and French air forces.
That’s a mix that might work in Syria. Although the Iraqi Government is our friend; Syria’s Government led by Bashar al-Assad is not. Also the US has designated Iran’s Quds Force a terrorist organization. (However their terrorism is surely much less than that of Joe Stalin prior to WW2 and he was openly embraced by the Allies.)
It’s not easy - but ISIS has shown itself to be an efficient fighting force and will not be defeated by rag bag groups of part-timers, armed with US weapons they probably don't know how to use..
1
This seems to be yet another example of how you can't rule people at a distance. I'm sure that overthrowing Assad's government seemed like a good idea at the time. But as soon as Russia became involved, the real danger was war between the US and Russia. It moved from being a proxy war with Russia to a situation where so many interests were involved that so-called "Friendly Fire" could easily have started a hot war. For once I actually think that Trump did the right thing. I suppose even a broken clock is right twice a day.
3
War on Terror. War on Drugs. War on Poverty.
Whenever the US declares a war on something it generally has the unintended, opposite affect.
Maybe we should declare a War on Green Technology, a War on Infrastructure and a War on Peace just to see how it goes.
Whenever the US declares a war on something it generally has the unintended, opposite affect.
Maybe we should declare a War on Green Technology, a War on Infrastructure and a War on Peace just to see how it goes.
12
The US is Israel and Saudi Arabia's jukebox. The Saudis put coins in it while the Israelis kick its sides to play the songs they want.
"The president’s reversal came in part because of intense lobbying by foreign leaders, including King Abdullah II of Jordan and Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu of Israel, who argued that the United States should take a more active role in trying to end the conflict."
"The president’s reversal came in part because of intense lobbying by foreign leaders, including King Abdullah II of Jordan and Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu of Israel, who argued that the United States should take a more active role in trying to end the conflict."
12
I do not think much of Trump but Syria is not a US concern. Hilary the warmonger would have been all in from day one.
16
Since the end of WWII, the US has been permanently fighting proxy-direct wars all over the globe, particularly in the third world. A privilege and power bestowed by the mighty dollar, the global currency.
Ending the financing for Syrian radical groups will help to end one of the cruelest and bloody civil wars in modern decades. President Donald Trump deserves credit for that.
Ending the financing for Syrian radical groups will help to end one of the cruelest and bloody civil wars in modern decades. President Donald Trump deserves credit for that.
14
I'm pleased with the decision to end the program. We have wasted enough money and life's in Syria. We don't have a better solution than what is currently in place. Unfortunately.
2
Trump de-funding the CIA's operations with the 'rebels' in Syria that has armed, trained, directed and protected jihadist fighters in Syria...that's a start...
Does that mean the US are out of the regime change business?
That'll be quite a surprise to Iran, Venezuela, Libya, Yemen, Honduras, Ukraine, Haiti, Bolivia, Philippines, and wherever else... but, yeah, those darn Russians who "might" have helped expose the shenanigans of the DNC and HRC to the American electorate, they are a menace to world peace and must be stopped at all costs !
Talk about morally bankrupt and hypocrisy.
And just like Bush/Cheney and his cabal of war criminals got away with it, so will Obama/HRC and their cabal of war criminals.
Isn't America great again already ?
Does that mean the US are out of the regime change business?
That'll be quite a surprise to Iran, Venezuela, Libya, Yemen, Honduras, Ukraine, Haiti, Bolivia, Philippines, and wherever else... but, yeah, those darn Russians who "might" have helped expose the shenanigans of the DNC and HRC to the American electorate, they are a menace to world peace and must be stopped at all costs !
Talk about morally bankrupt and hypocrisy.
And just like Bush/Cheney and his cabal of war criminals got away with it, so will Obama/HRC and their cabal of war criminals.
Isn't America great again already ?
14
Did not Obama ask congress to vote for the US to get involved in Syria,and once that happened the all the phony warriors went silent. Not a one of them wanted their names attached to this foolishness,but they wanted Obama to wade right in.
3
But wait for years all I heard was Obama was doing nothing in Syria, but seems he was doing plenty, arming extremist to toggle another elected leader. Just another stop on the Clinton/Obama regime change express.
13
Yeah, I heard that too, often from liberal columnists in this paper. Fake opinions.
3
Proves the old proverb that even a broken clock...
4
Enough. We are NOT the police of the world. We have nothing in common with the middle east with the exception of four things, which we have in common with everyone that inhabits this planet. We are born, we age, we get sick, we die.
6
We have one more thing in common with the ME-- petrodollars.
2
See NYT 2012: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/15/world/middleeast/jihadists-receiving-m...
" Most of the arms shipped at the behest of Saudi Arabia and Qatar to supply Syrian rebel groups fighting the government of Bashar al-Assad are going to hard-line Islamic jihadists, and not the more secular opposition groups that the West wants to bolster, according to American officials and Middle Eastern diplomats." And now in 2017 this is the best NYT can come up with, 'successes (?) and failures' ?
" Most of the arms shipped at the behest of Saudi Arabia and Qatar to supply Syrian rebel groups fighting the government of Bashar al-Assad are going to hard-line Islamic jihadists, and not the more secular opposition groups that the West wants to bolster, according to American officials and Middle Eastern diplomats." And now in 2017 this is the best NYT can come up with, 'successes (?) and failures' ?
5
Considering what America and its allies have done to Libya, Iraq, ..., and the Ukraine, thank heaven Russia is saving Syrian sovereignty. How much more death and destruction by the war machine before it spends and loses enough as the client of Israel, Goldman-Sachs, ..., and Lockheed, to turn to reforming a crippled homeland?
9
Don't blame this on Trump buckling to Putin, blame it on the US-backed Nour al-Din al-Zinki Movement. Trump was shown a video of them beheading a 12-year-old boy. Mark Tonner said that "al-Zinki has said they will investigate this incident, and we hope they do so thoroughly and transparently."
3
Another attempt at installing our puppet leader has failed, in Russia's backyard. We created the refugee crisis then didn't want to deal with it.
6
This is such a "pleasant" sanitized admission of the havoc and destruction WE created in Aleppo, the migration crisis that killed innocent children, arming of radical extremists, to name a few instances.
Hurray to the Arms trade and the Military Industrial Complex.
Even Obama, Hillary & Kerry could not stop them !
The editorial board of NYT ignored this catastrophy and failed t.o educate the average citizen.
Waiting eagerly for the revelation on the butchery in Yemen.
"Eyes wide shut" indeed!
Hurray to the Arms trade and the Military Industrial Complex.
Even Obama, Hillary & Kerry could not stop them !
The editorial board of NYT ignored this catastrophy and failed t.o educate the average citizen.
Waiting eagerly for the revelation on the butchery in Yemen.
"Eyes wide shut" indeed!
11
Heartbreaking story. The real catalyst of this upheaval was the deceitfully misguided U. S. invasion of Iraq after 9/11 and the diversion of forces from Afghanistan. I remember thinking at the time that we'd be paying for this for a long time (wasted resources, destabilized region, loss of life), but people forget to connect the dots...
6
Susan Rice: 'The president's priority wad fighting ISIS'
This policy of lying to the American people under covert operations with the real aim of toppling the secular Assad regime has gone amok. Without the US meddling into Syria, this so called 'moderate rebels' and/or 'ISIS' would have gone extinct by the Syrian army that has been supported by Iran, Iraq and Russia.
But no, of course not, CIA and the juggernaut US military complex did not see it as simple and have been supporting these terrorists mostly via proxies but masterminding the strategy.
The Trump administration decision of stopping CIA covert operations will not change much as the US has already switched to support independent Kurdish state (look at unknown number of soldiers and third party contractors in the region) for a long time regardless of what the officials said publicly. This policy is also well known by the regional powers (Iran, Turkey, Iraq) and their population and will cause regional war between Iran, Turkey and the Kurds backed by the US.
May be that's what the US policy has been all along: more chaos in the Middle East!?..
This policy of lying to the American people under covert operations with the real aim of toppling the secular Assad regime has gone amok. Without the US meddling into Syria, this so called 'moderate rebels' and/or 'ISIS' would have gone extinct by the Syrian army that has been supported by Iran, Iraq and Russia.
But no, of course not, CIA and the juggernaut US military complex did not see it as simple and have been supporting these terrorists mostly via proxies but masterminding the strategy.
The Trump administration decision of stopping CIA covert operations will not change much as the US has already switched to support independent Kurdish state (look at unknown number of soldiers and third party contractors in the region) for a long time regardless of what the officials said publicly. This policy is also well known by the regional powers (Iran, Turkey, Iraq) and their population and will cause regional war between Iran, Turkey and the Kurds backed by the US.
May be that's what the US policy has been all along: more chaos in the Middle East!?..
8
DJT is in a box...and its rapidly shrinking. Lets come up with a "hey, this just wasnt for you" process to show the world America is for adults.
1
Surprise, surprise - now an old ally of General Flynn has been fired. Every new day, it seems, as the Trump Tweets begin and the news media come alive I begin to feel that I am watching an old Laurel and Hardy movie without the pratfalls............and, as I see who has been fired I ask myself "Who Is Next?".
1
Funding anti-Assad forces in Syria has been a mistake from the beginning.
While one of President Trump's harshest critics, I must admit he actually got this one right. I am amazed. The President is, otherwise, an unmitigated failure--or worse.
All the so-called Syrian revolution could ever accomplish was the destabilization of Syria and the empowerment of militants. This was an obvious fact from the beginning of the conflict. Arming the rebels, after destroying secular government in Iraq, only created the conditions for the rise of ISIS. We are to blame for that debacle.
While one of President Trump's harshest critics, I must admit he actually got this one right. I am amazed. The President is, otherwise, an unmitigated failure--or worse.
All the so-called Syrian revolution could ever accomplish was the destabilization of Syria and the empowerment of militants. This was an obvious fact from the beginning of the conflict. Arming the rebels, after destroying secular government in Iraq, only created the conditions for the rise of ISIS. We are to blame for that debacle.
32
Just to get a more rounded picture of this issue: How many hundred millions did we spend on Diplomacy in this crisis? Oh wait, we actually had a 100 or so "Diplomats" write the President (Obama) telling him war was the only answer.
One of the biggest problems we have had in the Middle East is we have no clear objective. We just know we like some people and hate some others, and then try to find some short-term game to advance our friends and destroy our supposed enemies. All that results is our so-called friends use us, our so-called enemies team up with our other enemies (Russia, China, etc...) and public and private contractors make a lot of money off the US taxpayer. The media in the meantime provides us with a nice, shiny excretum of biased narratives, full with dramatic shots of explosions and gunfire, and bleeding victims. No clear goal, just a lot of noise, with real people dying or having their money used to bomb schools and hospitals instead of building them.
One of the biggest problems we have had in the Middle East is we have no clear objective. We just know we like some people and hate some others, and then try to find some short-term game to advance our friends and destroy our supposed enemies. All that results is our so-called friends use us, our so-called enemies team up with our other enemies (Russia, China, etc...) and public and private contractors make a lot of money off the US taxpayer. The media in the meantime provides us with a nice, shiny excretum of biased narratives, full with dramatic shots of explosions and gunfire, and bleeding victims. No clear goal, just a lot of noise, with real people dying or having their money used to bomb schools and hospitals instead of building them.
42
Nice observations. I'd like to add to your commentary with a theory of the causal forces at work in Syria and other countries of the Arab Spring. It is that when there is heavy repression, torture, disappearing behind the scenes for years, there are going to be bombs going off soon. This to me has the weight of a law of physics: the screams in the night in the cellars of prisons turn eventually into terrorist bombs going off in the streets. The actual details of whose bombs they are and what the motives are is essentially immaterial.
The law "explains" Iraq, Syria, and Libya and other countries ruled by men tyrants.
A corollary of this law we can witness in America with shootings. The anguish and, in effect, torture of economic injustice is not as blatant as the methods of the strongmen of these countries, so the bombs in the street are smaller: bullets only.
There is only one cure or fix for both America and all these countries: improvements in justice. If you had to make a mathematical formula relating justice to terrorism it is one over justice equals terrorism.
Curiously, the animal kingdom shows the law in effect as well. Elephants, for example, if they experience trauma in their youth, frequently become violent against their captors. Ultimately there is a logic of survival at work: random violence is a randomization routine that changes the environmental parameters. Our instinct when trapped is to thrash around with all our strength: it generally works.
The law "explains" Iraq, Syria, and Libya and other countries ruled by men tyrants.
A corollary of this law we can witness in America with shootings. The anguish and, in effect, torture of economic injustice is not as blatant as the methods of the strongmen of these countries, so the bombs in the street are smaller: bullets only.
There is only one cure or fix for both America and all these countries: improvements in justice. If you had to make a mathematical formula relating justice to terrorism it is one over justice equals terrorism.
Curiously, the animal kingdom shows the law in effect as well. Elephants, for example, if they experience trauma in their youth, frequently become violent against their captors. Ultimately there is a logic of survival at work: random violence is a randomization routine that changes the environmental parameters. Our instinct when trapped is to thrash around with all our strength: it generally works.
That's exactly right. See: Libya, Yemen, Iraq, etc.
2
Sometimes the only objective you can have is to keep hope alive for millions of people, but now they don't even have that. It is the ultimate hallmark of the Trump presidency to take hope away from those most in need even as he panders to their hopelessness.
1
Whatever the motives behind the current Pentagon move to stop funding the Syrian covert operations the US' foreign wars have always been a drag on its material and human resources, let alone a clear violation of the international law, and the sovereignty of nations.
28
How dare you question of the US, dont you know the westerners cannot be bad!.
2
Funding rebel troupes means funding proxy wars unauthorized by the Congress and in breach of Constitutional reasons to go to war.
72
I am happy it happened. CIA has been always arming rogue enemies. USA and my tax payer money shouldn't go into arming rogue, murderous rebels trained to topple various disobedient regimes.
68
Listen to this. We speak openly and unapologetically of overthrowing a sovereign country. When will this madness end? We have, throughout our history, overthrown democratically elected governments, assassinated foreign leaders, and staged numerous proxy wars. This latest example in Syria, after our disastrous overthrow of the Libya and Iraq, has destabilized yet another secular middle east country resulting in a Islamic fundamentalism terror center. For God's sakes, will we never learn? Our CIA armed the Taliban and Osama bin Laden to overthrow a secular government. We really need to overhaul our foreign policy objectives and stop our counterproductive military interventions.
116
Over a long period of time, our leaders, of both parties, have transformed the U.S. into simply another Banana Republic without the gaudy uniforms. So far. Our hands are as dirty as any of the tyrants we have overthrown. Getting the CIA out of the sneak and kill business may be a good idea after all.......
9
And also cry about foreign meddling in the election. (the meddling part is probably untrue)
8
Afghanistan, Iran, Lybia, Iraq, Syria, Egypt.... Perhaps the only logical conclusion is that the CIA/State department has been infiltrated by Islamic Jihadi types who seek to overthrow secular dictators and replace them with even worse Islamic dictators!
7
Never thought I'd see the day, but I actually agree with Trump's having done this, although I am comforted that he did it on orders from Mr. Pompeo, and that he probably didn't really know what he was doing.
Supporters and opponents of this program were both right; it was too weak an effort to really accomplish anything, and it was far too expensive, antagonized Russia, and really had no clear goals.
But there's a bigger flaw, it was "one of the most expensive efforts to arm and train rebels since the agency’s program arming the mujahedeen in Afghanistan during the 1980s". I hope we all recall that the training of the mujahedeen led directly to the 9/11 attacks. Picking some Syrians, from a warlike and religiously fundamentalist nation, just because they opposed the butcher Assad, and training them in combat, would not lead anywhere good.
If we wanted to save Syria from itself, then five years ago we should have formed a coalition with Russia, Iran, NATO, and anybody else who wanted in, and conquered and occupied it as a group. It could have been split into zones by sectarian lines, and different nations could have administered the regions until they were ready for self-governing. Only then could we have reached peace.
As it is, nearly every effort in Syria is wasted, if it is not aimed at total conquest and the elimination of the current government. Syria is running out of water, and when it does, all investments will reach a value of zero.
Supporters and opponents of this program were both right; it was too weak an effort to really accomplish anything, and it was far too expensive, antagonized Russia, and really had no clear goals.
But there's a bigger flaw, it was "one of the most expensive efforts to arm and train rebels since the agency’s program arming the mujahedeen in Afghanistan during the 1980s". I hope we all recall that the training of the mujahedeen led directly to the 9/11 attacks. Picking some Syrians, from a warlike and religiously fundamentalist nation, just because they opposed the butcher Assad, and training them in combat, would not lead anywhere good.
If we wanted to save Syria from itself, then five years ago we should have formed a coalition with Russia, Iran, NATO, and anybody else who wanted in, and conquered and occupied it as a group. It could have been split into zones by sectarian lines, and different nations could have administered the regions until they were ready for self-governing. Only then could we have reached peace.
As it is, nearly every effort in Syria is wasted, if it is not aimed at total conquest and the elimination of the current government. Syria is running out of water, and when it does, all investments will reach a value of zero.
6
Agreed that Trump likely did not know what he was doing, but then neither did Obama when he dragged the US into this war (and Libya and Yemen) without Congressional authorization.
22
"he probably didn't really know what he was doing"????Does he ever? Just ask Mexico or the Boy Scouts about the praise-filled phone calls they made to our Chief Tweeter............
1
There never was a viable opposition to the Assad government that was not ISIS or Al-Qaeda. Trump had a "secret plan" to eliminate ISIS. I guess the plan was to shore up Assad! Oh yes, and blame Iran for doing the same thing.
Trump is a charlatan and a joke.
Trump is a charlatan and a joke.
13
US intervention in Syria was short-sighted, unnecessary, and ultimately, another tragic foreign policy misadventure. The Syrian Civil War has killed nearly 500,000 people. One-third of Syria's population have been displaced, creating millions of refugees which destabilized other countries as far away as in Europe. What benefit had there been from this interference in another nation's internal affairs?
Last week, North Korea launched an ICBM, having already achieved the capability of making nuclear bombs. As usual, the US huffs and puffs. Has the US considered that North Korea is a backlash from decades of unwanted American invasions and 'regime changes'? The world has seen what happened to non-nuclear states such as Iraq, Syria and Libya. They tended to be attacked with impunity. Muammar Gaddafi even renounced his rudimentary nuclear program to appease the West. He ended up dead in a civil war instigated by the West. Why shouldn't North Korea or Iran seek the ultimate deterrent to protect themselves from foreign aggression?
Last week, North Korea launched an ICBM, having already achieved the capability of making nuclear bombs. As usual, the US huffs and puffs. Has the US considered that North Korea is a backlash from decades of unwanted American invasions and 'regime changes'? The world has seen what happened to non-nuclear states such as Iraq, Syria and Libya. They tended to be attacked with impunity. Muammar Gaddafi even renounced his rudimentary nuclear program to appease the West. He ended up dead in a civil war instigated by the West. Why shouldn't North Korea or Iran seek the ultimate deterrent to protect themselves from foreign aggression?
62
It only took one tête-à-tête with Putin at diner with his Russian translator to shut this thing down. What's next.
4
"Foolhardy, expensive and ineffective" that pretty much describes every failed US regime change/nation building and "democracy promotion" effort from the invasion of Iraq on. Re Syria our "rebels"? What? The ones with the shorter beards? Of course the CIA is disappointed. This is first and foremost a budget and interbureaucratic power issue to them and a profit issue to the huge network of companies the CIA buys the weapons from and subcontracts to do so much of its "training" work. (These are the companies who so successfully lobby to keep these conflicts going and the profits rolling in.) But make no mistake despite spending close to a billion on just this operation they still barely comprehend the environments they are operating in. But hey - the beauty of this for the war profiteers is the checks from the US treasury clear whether the weapons are ultimately used against US enemies or US forces and the longer the conflicts go on the more money they make.
37
Where was my place at the table when this whole disasterous scheme was cooked up? My visit to Syria in 2000 showed me a beautiful country with intact historical monuments, old cities with history and intact neighborhoods. I saw bazaars where generations of shopkeepers had formed a community. I saw intact strong families out at night in the safe and beautiful streets. Now it is all destroyed and we have 25,000 refugees pressing on Europe. This intervention scheme was the special project of Hillary Clinton as SOS and that's why I didn't vote for her. This was all for an oil pipeline? What hubris! Too many in Washington see the rest of the world as an opportunity for conquering and destroying. They view those they destroy as no more than an ant colony.
65
So we were supposed to look the other way while ISIS ran amok and Assad (Putin's friend) used chemical weapons on his countrymen? Ask W how this mess got started. His administration was never held accountable.
1
The Syrian crises occured because of and extended draught. The rebel portions of Syria was being flooded with farmers from the country. They protested Assads lack of help with acquiring new water. Protest erupted. He began to suppress the protest with violence. He used Chemical weapons..remember the line?...many, both left and right, wanted intervention. Reasons are to numerous to write. The question was always who. Initially I heard calls to just armed the Rebels, but Hillary et al realized that would mean arming the likes of Isis. So they took a minimalist approach, supporting only groups that seemed to support a liberal democracy. Those forces where few and far between. There were few good options.
Excellent point: we need to hear more about who the instigators of this exercise in hubris were.
2
While it seems as if there are only bad options in Syria, and why Obama chose one of these, the real story here is the capitulation to Russia.
3
Macron als said he wouldn't push further to dethrone Assad. Is he wrong, too? How much more war in Syria do you want? Trump did the right thing here.
10
No it's not. For once I agree with what's his name.
Are you suggesting we continue a stupid ineffective policy costing lives and treasure just because continuing it would annoy Russia?
Are you suggesting we continue a stupid ineffective policy costing lives and treasure just because continuing it would annoy Russia?
7
"The rebel army was by then a shell, hollowed out by more than a year of bombing by Russian planes and confined to ever-shrinking patches of Syria that government troops had not reconquered."
That "rebel army" was also not the moderates the US meant to support. It was al Qaeda, and its many co-opted allies. There were no moderates. When we looked, we found five guys, and promptly got them killed.
That rebel army was not hollowed out by the Russians. It was taken over by al Qaeda a long time ago, except those who went to ISIS instead. The US was feeding weapons to its own enemies. It was a colossal mess, totally FUBAR.
That "rebel army" was also not the moderates the US meant to support. It was al Qaeda, and its many co-opted allies. There were no moderates. When we looked, we found five guys, and promptly got them killed.
That rebel army was not hollowed out by the Russians. It was taken over by al Qaeda a long time ago, except those who went to ISIS instead. The US was feeding weapons to its own enemies. It was a colossal mess, totally FUBAR.
54
There's a lot of accurately reported nonsense in this article.
Start with Mr. Lister's contention the Obama administration, which put a billion dollars into this covert boondoggle didn't give it enough support. Should Obama or Trump have thrown another billion away on a program based on the pious hope there were "moderates" in Syrian foxholes?
Michael Hayden appears mixed up. No President should "have the CIA's back'"when a program of this magnitude fails; what is extremely troubling, as Hayden has pointed out in his sensible moments is Trump's effort to smear clandestinely collected evidence of Russia's intervention in the 2016 elections as "fake news", branding honest analysts at CIA, NSA and FBI as as liars.
To expect the CIA to "control" a foreign guerrilla force is foolish. Though the Agency purged the Bay of Pigs Brigade it could not will them to victory, nor could the CIA "control" factions among the contras, where squabbling, brutality and corruption eroded what little chance the contras had of making a dent in the Sandinista grip on Nicaragua. In Afghanistan, the CIA supported but did not "control" a successful insurgency against the Soviet Unon, an insurgency which unfortunately included Osama Bin Laden.
Start with Mr. Lister's contention the Obama administration, which put a billion dollars into this covert boondoggle didn't give it enough support. Should Obama or Trump have thrown another billion away on a program based on the pious hope there were "moderates" in Syrian foxholes?
Michael Hayden appears mixed up. No President should "have the CIA's back'"when a program of this magnitude fails; what is extremely troubling, as Hayden has pointed out in his sensible moments is Trump's effort to smear clandestinely collected evidence of Russia's intervention in the 2016 elections as "fake news", branding honest analysts at CIA, NSA and FBI as as liars.
To expect the CIA to "control" a foreign guerrilla force is foolish. Though the Agency purged the Bay of Pigs Brigade it could not will them to victory, nor could the CIA "control" factions among the contras, where squabbling, brutality and corruption eroded what little chance the contras had of making a dent in the Sandinista grip on Nicaragua. In Afghanistan, the CIA supported but did not "control" a successful insurgency against the Soviet Unon, an insurgency which unfortunately included Osama Bin Laden.
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“In many ways, I would put the blame on the Obama administration,” Mr. Lister said of the C.I.A. program. “They never gave it the necessary resources or space to determine the dynamics of the battlefield. They were drip-feeding opposition groups just enough to survive but never enough to become dominant actors.”....
"President Barack Obama had reluctantly agreed to the program in 2013 as the administration was struggling to blunt the momentum of Syrian government forces loyal to President Bashar al-Assad."....
"But by the final year of the Obama administration, the program had lost many supporters in the White House — especially after the administration’s top priority in Syria became battling the Islamic State, also known as ISIS or ISIL, rather than seeking an end to Mr. Assad’s government."...
A half-baked program, with minimal success and which made no effort to deal with the Butcher of Damascus who has killed more Syrians than ISIS.
"Aleppo fell to Syrian government troops in December."
Syria was Mr. Obama's fiasco, from his red lines to the fall of Aleppo to the Butcher's forces.
"President Barack Obama had reluctantly agreed to the program in 2013 as the administration was struggling to blunt the momentum of Syrian government forces loyal to President Bashar al-Assad."....
"But by the final year of the Obama administration, the program had lost many supporters in the White House — especially after the administration’s top priority in Syria became battling the Islamic State, also known as ISIS or ISIL, rather than seeking an end to Mr. Assad’s government."...
A half-baked program, with minimal success and which made no effort to deal with the Butcher of Damascus who has killed more Syrians than ISIS.
"Aleppo fell to Syrian government troops in December."
Syria was Mr. Obama's fiasco, from his red lines to the fall of Aleppo to the Butcher's forces.
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Joshua Schwarz tells us that Asad was the villain in Syria, which the facts do not justify. There isn't a single democratic state in the Arab League. Prison and torture for political and religious opponents is commonplace. What sets Syria apart, is that it is the only Arab state that enjoys religious freedom - not just every Moslem sect imaginable, but also Christians of all varieties.
What I as a Brit, find extraordinary is that the US government in any form - CIA, the Pentagon, State, would have ANY dealings with al Qaeda, other than at the point of a gun,these terrorists who only 15 years ago killed 3000 New Yorkers in the Twin Towers. Don't you guys do revenge?
The US trained rebels described in this comments strand, were fighting alongside Al Qaeda's local branch, al Nusra Front, to overthrow Assad who had never done any harm to the USA. Schwartz refers to the fall of Aleppo to Asads forces. Doesn't he know that the rebels holding out in Aleppo were al Nusra /al Qaeda? The bombing of Aleppo was the cause of frightful civilian casualties, but no different in kind from the US bombing of Mosul and Raqqah. Thats why terrorists occupy cities - to surround themselves with helpless civilians, as a barrier to bombardment and for the publicity civilian casualties gives to them. The US media never gave an unbiased account of the Syrian war, probably influenced by Israeli interests, but the truths are emerging now.
What I as a Brit, find extraordinary is that the US government in any form - CIA, the Pentagon, State, would have ANY dealings with al Qaeda, other than at the point of a gun,these terrorists who only 15 years ago killed 3000 New Yorkers in the Twin Towers. Don't you guys do revenge?
The US trained rebels described in this comments strand, were fighting alongside Al Qaeda's local branch, al Nusra Front, to overthrow Assad who had never done any harm to the USA. Schwartz refers to the fall of Aleppo to Asads forces. Doesn't he know that the rebels holding out in Aleppo were al Nusra /al Qaeda? The bombing of Aleppo was the cause of frightful civilian casualties, but no different in kind from the US bombing of Mosul and Raqqah. Thats why terrorists occupy cities - to surround themselves with helpless civilians, as a barrier to bombardment and for the publicity civilian casualties gives to them. The US media never gave an unbiased account of the Syrian war, probably influenced by Israeli interests, but the truths are emerging now.
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The weapons manufacturers may not be entirely pleased, but there seems great promise with North Korea and Iran, and the Congressional GOP seem amenable to an overall buildup that will only serve to drive our adversaries away from anything except pushback. We have learned nothing. We play this game like we think we are going to win something. The planet does not have time for this.
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I was, and still am a staunch supporter of President Obama and his administration, but this is the one area of policy, where I am deeply disappointed.
Congress ( republican controlled since 2010 ) is the sole declarer of war. President Obama went to congress for military authorization ( after they balked at him doing anything ) and they declined to act.
Allowing the CIA to circumvent that in Syria ( or anywhere ) is wrong on so many levels. The US cannot keep sending troops, military hardware or covert anything anywhere in the world, on the basis of a decade(s) old declaration of stopping terror.
Bring all the troops home now from everywhere.
Congress ( republican controlled since 2010 ) is the sole declarer of war. President Obama went to congress for military authorization ( after they balked at him doing anything ) and they declined to act.
Allowing the CIA to circumvent that in Syria ( or anywhere ) is wrong on so many levels. The US cannot keep sending troops, military hardware or covert anything anywhere in the world, on the basis of a decade(s) old declaration of stopping terror.
Bring all the troops home now from everywhere.
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Dear FunkyIrishman,
I agree that sending troops and hardware into Syria was a mistake, although it's because it had no chance of bringing peace, and what was needed was all-out invasion by a major coalition, including Russia. We've made many such mistakes, as a nation.
But, we can't bring all the troops home from everywhere; most of the troops now are aiding our allies. There's a lot of dangerous people out there, and our allies need help protecting themselves, particularly brand-new and tottering places like Iraq and Afghanistan, but also sturdy democracies like South Korea. We cannot simply renege on all our commitments, it would wreak havoc and strengthen the most despotic nations and groups.
I agree that sending troops and hardware into Syria was a mistake, although it's because it had no chance of bringing peace, and what was needed was all-out invasion by a major coalition, including Russia. We've made many such mistakes, as a nation.
But, we can't bring all the troops home from everywhere; most of the troops now are aiding our allies. There's a lot of dangerous people out there, and our allies need help protecting themselves, particularly brand-new and tottering places like Iraq and Afghanistan, but also sturdy democracies like South Korea. We cannot simply renege on all our commitments, it would wreak havoc and strengthen the most despotic nations and groups.
5
When we send our women & men to represent, stand and fight for us ...spending billions in tax revenue in the national "interest", that "interest" should be clearly defined and debated on the open House, Senate floor, Town meetings and diverse media.
Our history of undeclared covert action, wars and their direct & "collateral" damage is directly responsible for the rise in terrorism and the dismal state of our debt.
Yes, there are a lot of "dangerous people out there", we should do a better job of making sure we are not them.
Our history of undeclared covert action, wars and their direct & "collateral" damage is directly responsible for the rise in terrorism and the dismal state of our debt.
Yes, there are a lot of "dangerous people out there", we should do a better job of making sure we are not them.
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@Dan
Howdy mate ( long time )
As for Syria in particular, Russia was and is backing Syria\Assad, so I am not sure how they would be in a coalition with us ?
As for all of the other countries, a few of them were ''wars' based on lies. Troops are still there propping up failed states in the aftermath at great cost to the US, while every other coalition gets to spend their GDP on social programs for their citizens.
It would seem to me that many of the forces are also just guarding the oil. That has to change.
I am also not sure tens of thousands of troops in Japan or Germany does much. I understand your point of view, but the excess of the US military needs to be drawn down somewhere. I would start there. ( perhaps an aircraft carrier or two as well )
Just a thought
Howdy mate ( long time )
As for Syria in particular, Russia was and is backing Syria\Assad, so I am not sure how they would be in a coalition with us ?
As for all of the other countries, a few of them were ''wars' based on lies. Troops are still there propping up failed states in the aftermath at great cost to the US, while every other coalition gets to spend their GDP on social programs for their citizens.
It would seem to me that many of the forces are also just guarding the oil. That has to change.
I am also not sure tens of thousands of troops in Japan or Germany does much. I understand your point of view, but the excess of the US military needs to be drawn down somewhere. I would start there. ( perhaps an aircraft carrier or two as well )
Just a thought
6
And now how much will the US spend on reparations to Syria? For all the dead and the ruins.....Half a trillion? That might do it.
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The US destroyed Iraq and it's infrastructure, killed 2 million Iraqis, and no war reparations. Even Germany had to pay reparations and it's leaders faced justice in Nuremberg after WWII.
7
One wonders if the US will now face another period of blowback and terrorism from formerly US-trained and US-armed contra forces in Syria, as it did in Afghanistan when an end to the funding and arming of Maktab al-Khidamat (MAK) led to the rise of Al Qaeda?
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thanks to uncle sam. Europe will face the migrants, refugees, and extremists for years to come.
1
This is one case where Trump addressed Obamas incompetent Syrian policy. We of course should vamoose. This clearly is Russian territory.
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What do you mean when you say this is Russian territory? What a ridiculous remark. To the extent the Russians engaged in tainting our election. To the extent that they occupied Crimea and used proxies and their own troops to attack and disrupt Ukraine, given indications that they arm Taliban against us in Afghanistan and encourage the ballistic and nuclear efforts of North Korea, it seems unfortunate but apparent to me anyway that we should engage in undermining them in many more parts of the world, wherever and whenever we are able.
With that said, peace on earth, good will to all.
With that said, peace on earth, good will to all.
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Now you know how Russians are feeling about America that armed Taliban against Russians, occupied Iraq, dismembered Serbia, bombed Libya, supported the rebels in Syria, meddled in Russian politics and etc. I guess that should be enough to justify their wish to undermine the US.
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Point well taken Yulia. You forgot to mention the U.S. arming the Afghani Mujahedeen during the cold war. That action appears to have really gotten the ball rolling of Islamic jihad. Our two country's animosities go back quite a ways.
2
Obama should have stuck to his principal of not involving the US in other nations' civil wars.
Syria demonstrates that you cannot just look at a country ruled by a 15% minority population and assume that every member of the other 85% want their leader replaced, particularly at a time when sectarian allies of that 85% have been committing ghastly atrocities in the purported name of their faith over the past 20 years. A 2015 West Point study noted that Assad has considerable support among Sunnis in the merchant and certain other classes, whose members apparently prefer to be ruled by a brutal albeit sane Alawite than take their chances with a Saudi funded Wahabit fundamentalist.
Syria demonstrates that you cannot just look at a country ruled by a 15% minority population and assume that every member of the other 85% want their leader replaced, particularly at a time when sectarian allies of that 85% have been committing ghastly atrocities in the purported name of their faith over the past 20 years. A 2015 West Point study noted that Assad has considerable support among Sunnis in the merchant and certain other classes, whose members apparently prefer to be ruled by a brutal albeit sane Alawite than take their chances with a Saudi funded Wahabit fundamentalist.
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rjh - The Syrian rebels had a a lot off success initially in gaining territory and were very motivated in wanting to get rid of Assad who is a dictator. It wasn't until Russia joined the war and mercilessly bombed rebel positions as well as many civilians (a war crime) that the tide turned.
5
Not sure collateral damage (civilian deaths) by bombing is listed as a war crime.
If it were, the International War Crimes Commission would have a long list of countries to be tried and punished.
The most alarming of the current crop being Saudi Arabia knowingly and deliberately bombing civilians by military jets over Yemen, a country in famine.
Nobody seems to want to upset the Saudi oil King and his evil family — no matter what — despite how many atrocities they carry out by proxy.
Except the Russians, that is. They don't mind killing murderous Saudi-backed Wahabit fundamentalist fighters/ISIL/Daesh/Al Qaeda in Syria.
It may seem to the rest of the world that the Ruski’s are doing the Americans’ (claimed) job for them.
If it were, the International War Crimes Commission would have a long list of countries to be tried and punished.
The most alarming of the current crop being Saudi Arabia knowingly and deliberately bombing civilians by military jets over Yemen, a country in famine.
Nobody seems to want to upset the Saudi oil King and his evil family — no matter what — despite how many atrocities they carry out by proxy.
Except the Russians, that is. They don't mind killing murderous Saudi-backed Wahabit fundamentalist fighters/ISIL/Daesh/Al Qaeda in Syria.
It may seem to the rest of the world that the Ruski’s are doing the Americans’ (claimed) job for them.
5
Now we know the reason for this "success". CIA backing, not the support of the Syrian people, as we were told before. By the way, last time I checked, summarily executions were war crimes
5
Thank goodness. The U.S. has no business arming jihadi rebels in a sovereign nation. Syria did not ask the U.S. for help. Syria did not ask the U.S. to bomb it.
Not the U.S.'s business. It never was.
Not the U.S.'s business. It never was.
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we made it our business. don't believe me? google: u.s. embassy complex, Baghdad, Iraq. why built the world's largest embassy complex if we have no intention of hanging around.
the Iraqis invited us to leave. and they invited us back because of ISIS. why ISIS popped up of nowhere?
we will be in there for years to come.
the Iraqis invited us to leave. and they invited us back because of ISIS. why ISIS popped up of nowhere?
we will be in there for years to come.
The rebel problems from the start were the lack of defined goals and a cohesive effort to achieve them. Disunity of this type is easily defeated regardless of country or conflict.
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In all fairness to Donald Trump, Vladimir Putin might have told him to end the program. :(
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To be fair, Vladimir Putin advised George W. Bush against invading Iraq, too.
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And indeed that would clear him of all blame, as he would have had no choice but to obey.
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Trump will find another war to engage in otherwise why an enormous increase in military spending he has planned? He loves to bash Obama but he will make his own massive, bigly, yuge mistakes just to look to be outsmarting Obama.
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Give the rotten place to the Russians. They deserve it and will certainly be better getting rid of ISIS.
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President Obama was never all in on his CIA commitment to Syria. Russia, Turkey and Iran are regional players and have skin in the game. We are not. Good riddance.
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Sure he was. The NYT reported early in the war in 2011 that Obama had covertly sent advisors to Jordan to train Syrian rebels, then he covertly armed them, and finally he asked for funding. This has been Obama's war from the outset, and he has ferociously defended his desire to effectuate regime change.
10
This is one of the moves I agree with Trump on it is like this folks do you all know who the rebels really are. They are the worst of the worst there was no moderates to begin with it was a big scam that the US govt and the media made it out to be. They wanted to get rid of Bashar Al-Assad to get a pipeline through to Europe to cut off Russian influence and they wanted to do it with less fan fair like they did with Iraq but it has failed miserably. They have been trying to get rid of Assad since the 80s so if you think we are the good guys we are not. We have not been the good guys for a long time.
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Exactly! Thank-you.
3
What a complex story about the limitations of force at a distance. Quick! lets make it a simplistic story about political divisions in the United States!
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