If you're so afraid of getting caught being here illegally, why drive? Why speed? Why not put kids in car seats? Do they simply think none of our laws apply to them?
23
Don't ya luv when ILLEGALS TELL US WHAT WE SHOULD DO! "We need to advance." Liz Robbins, for the love of God when will ONE SINGLE reporter show the true side of ILLEGALS instead of the sapping stories trying to sway our thoughts in pity. Pro ILLEGAL groups are very organized with massive #'s & get ILLEGALS off all the time from being deported even with prior criminal records, so I doubt this guys going anywhere. Go interview MS13, I dare ya. Or, I work at the IRS, why don't ya do a story how they are number 1 fraudulent filer of tax returns STEALING MONEY FROM US DAILY & allowed to STEAL & FILE USING STOLEN SSN's with no punishment, fine or anything. Hopefully your SSN is one they are using bcuz we never even notified the AMERICANS whose SSN they steal whether it be a 4 yr old child or 90 yr old woman, we are all up for grabs for them to file returns. Do a story on how much $$ it cost to run detainment centers supporting these folks 100% for yrs (it's all posted online & public info). Just report on BCFS & the billions they get every year. Report on how much $ we pay for medical, food stamps, housing, schools, interpreters etc. No, you won't bcuz it would piss everyone off & doesn't fit the liberal sad sap agenda. Find out why those that have been here for 20 yrs REFUSE TO LEARN THE LANGUAGE!! I dare you to take on even one of the scenarios, just dare ya.
40
The article said that this man was stopped because he was speeding, that he had two children who were not properly secured in the vehicle and that he is in this country in violation of the law. So exactly why am I supposed to feel sorry for a man who endangers himself, endanger the public and endangered the lives of children in his own vehicle?
43
I think The NY Times needs to do an article on the virtual impossibility for most people of obtaining a visa or green card no matter how long they wait. It is a complete myth that you just need to get in line and wait. A decade in line and active citizen sponsors won't get most people a visa.
2
Please !
to all of you, writing theses negatives comments about immigrants , I invite you to read the Bret Stephens column (some weeks ago) about who should be deported ,
I'm very much sure y'all will fit right there
to all of you, writing theses negatives comments about immigrants , I invite you to read the Bret Stephens column (some weeks ago) about who should be deported ,
I'm very much sure y'all will fit right there
1
No sympathy here. When you drive without a license and insurance as well as being illegally here, you must face the consequences. Deportation is the answer! They shouldn't be here in the first place! DEPORT
23
The illegals took the risk of deportation by coming here ILLEGALLY! Why does NYT post articles trying to make us be sympathetic to them, hoping we will accept their presence here? Right now I have an illegal across the street being employed by a family whose car I see every Tuesday and Friday freely walking their child on my street. Also, the car washes I won't go to have them as well. I don't want to coexist with them. We need ICE to come to Southern California to round them up and ship them out now! California has declared themselves to be a sanctuary city. The illegals think, wrongfully so, that they're protected by virtue of the citizens treating them as unwelcome. As a taxpayer on my pension in California, we NEED to deport them all!
24
Do you know who profits from having people who are illegally here and who drive without licenses and insurance? It is employers who pay little to these people and that is why the NYT and others want to protect them. They get workers in their businesses to whom they give inadequate pay. Many of those people here illegally have large families, many of the kids having been born in this country and who are now anchor babies. It is cheap labor for businesses and that is the bottom line.
29
My wife was involved in a head on collision with an illegal immigrant. Incredibly she survived with minor injuries but her car was totaled. But he should have never been on the road...period...he was here illegally. Since I have personal experience with this let me address another outrageous lie advocates fail to mention. Illegal immigrants will not carry insurance. This according to the prosecutor at our trial who sees these cases all the time. Oh, I'm sorry I forgot to tell you after the head on collision the driver jumped out of his car and ran. That's why we had a trial. We were responsible for the medical & auto expenses our insurance didn't cover.
Let me ask some sensible questions? Wouldn't giving drivers licenses to those here illegally encourage more illegal immigration...is that what we want? OK let's put aside the illegal immigration issue for the moment. Wouldn't this lead to more accidents because "undocumented" immigrants drive older, less reliable cars and can’t read road signs in English? I see column after column in the NYT saying we need fewer cars on the road...isn't this a good place to start? Just curious who will pay for the cost of this outreach to get everyone signed up...it will cost millions...the legal citizens? Please, someone, explain to me why we as Democrats are always on the wrong side of so many issues...but especially the problems of illegal immigration. Why are we determined to make an already bad situation much, much worse? Unbelievable.
Let me ask some sensible questions? Wouldn't giving drivers licenses to those here illegally encourage more illegal immigration...is that what we want? OK let's put aside the illegal immigration issue for the moment. Wouldn't this lead to more accidents because "undocumented" immigrants drive older, less reliable cars and can’t read road signs in English? I see column after column in the NYT saying we need fewer cars on the road...isn't this a good place to start? Just curious who will pay for the cost of this outreach to get everyone signed up...it will cost millions...the legal citizens? Please, someone, explain to me why we as Democrats are always on the wrong side of so many issues...but especially the problems of illegal immigration. Why are we determined to make an already bad situation much, much worse? Unbelievable.
33
My wife was rear-ended by an illegal alien driver 20 years ago and her life has never been the same. Multiple surgeries and constant pain are a fact of life for her. At times, she wished she had died in the accident because of the pain she has to live with now.
Would the collision (not accident by the way) have been avoided if the illegal alien had received a driver's license? We will never know, but I do know it never would have happened if he had never illegally entered the USA.
I think legal immigration is one of the enduring strengths of America but I absolutely detest those who flaunt our sovereignty and make a mockery of those around the world who get in line for a visa or green card and play by the rules. By the way, I also think anyone who employs a illegal alien should suffer serious consequences under the law.
Would the collision (not accident by the way) have been avoided if the illegal alien had received a driver's license? We will never know, but I do know it never would have happened if he had never illegally entered the USA.
I think legal immigration is one of the enduring strengths of America but I absolutely detest those who flaunt our sovereignty and make a mockery of those around the world who get in line for a visa or green card and play by the rules. By the way, I also think anyone who employs a illegal alien should suffer serious consequences under the law.
40
What difference does it make? Licensed, registered and insured drivers don't follow any of the basic driving regulations (stop signs, red lights, keep right, speed limits, etc.) any more, so why worry about people without licenses? We're in the midst of an overall societal breakdown; this is small potatoes.
4
Such self-righteous indignation from those who have never cheated on their taxes or their spouses, have never lied on an expense account, have never stolen from their employer. We should all be law-abiding but let's be careful to separate sin from violation of a statute. The penalties seem to be excessive compared to the crimes.
4
I see nothing self-righteous about anyone pointing out a violation of the law. Is your posting meant to imply that only those who have never committed a violation of the law have the righteousness needed to point out violations committed by others? Equal protection under the law also means equal application of the law.
24
I'm a Democrat and acutely aware of the privilege of being born in this country with all its attendant privileges. Unfortunately, most of the world was not born in the US and immigration needs to be handled responsibly. We want to avoid a repeat of this situation going forward and so careful consideration has to be given to any policies going forward. I am for some path forward but not amnesty for current undocumented immigrants. There is a rule of law that must be followed and while that may see harsh to you, it's a slippery slope otherwise. Just as much as I hate jingoism from the right, I also hate it from the left. No, illegal immigrants are not voting in droves and yes, illegal immigration does have costs to society (it's not a boon for everyone in the US). The citizens of this nation have a right to enforce our own laws.
26
Every 3 years, like clockwork, my employer, a university, renews my H1B at great cost to them (I'm an academic physician), and I go back to India, family in tow ($1500 per head, plus all the expenses that come with living a metro (Mumbai city) x 10 days. I have to retain a lawyer ($3000/ year plus incidental expenses). every 3 years I go to the DMV and get treated like a leper and renew my driving license. Overall in the last 13 years that I worked in the US, waiting for my Green card, I have spent about $55,000 on lawyers and immigration expenses. It seems that the NYT tells me that I've got it all wrong. I should just wing it...
49
It appears the Times favors lawlessness over obeying the laws that govern our country. They continue to apologize for those who knowingly break our laws to get here, every week another sob story. Good luck to you.
20
Also, drive without a license, don't put your kids in car seats and speed!
9
'We have had a defacto open border for a long time. As soon as these folks have kids in the US they are here permanently. Mexico is a rich country. Why can`t we offer all Mexicans US citizenship and just make it another state? We now have to provide for the population without the benefit of the natural resources. It would be a lot more fair to the US taxpayer........who is not the .1%.....and we could allow unions to organize the auto plants and other facctories and raise their wages to US standards. It would be a win for everyone except for the corrupt oligarchs.
5
Great idea. We start with Mexico and Canada. So opposed to a country, we can leverage ourselves as a continent. Kind of what the EU is doing and kicking our?
It's a ridiculous law granting US citizenship if your parents broke laws to gain entry. No other country gives you that right. We are suckers.
25
Remind me as to why we need to feel bad about this? I'm a bleeding heart liberal, yet I think folks have to follow the law. I'm with the Republicans on this one.
59
Seriously, you might not have broken any laws that are Federal or considered felonious. I am willing to bet that 95% of you on this site have broken the law in one way or another. So enough about law. You people do realize that we basically took this country away from Mexico. Here is a list of explorers that actually came to the " New World " before the Mayflower. Columbus, Pizarro, Vasco De Gamma, Magellan, Cortez, do I need to go on. And if that doesn't make you think. New Mexico, Arizona, California, Colorado, Texas, Montana, Nevada and Florida. Spanish or Hispanic namesakes. 23 other state names were given by the true owners of the this country. We as a country have the right and responsibility to do what's right for us. At the end, I hope that we also have the will and temerity to make sure that this country I love so much does the right thing.
1
Here is a question for everyone including members of Congress and the Senate to ponder; either work on legislation that fixes the healthcare insurance issues and enforce immigration laws or let the AHA ( aka Obamacare) take its own course and work on legislation to that economically discourages sanctuary actions by states in issuing every type of license to illegal undocumented people.
13
Two dangerous roadways abutting my town teeming with illegal aliens, Bergenline Ave. in North Bergen, Broadway I'm Washington Heights, just crossing the street can be life threatening.
21
Mr. Cardona didn't mind breaking the law when he came to this country illegally though.
39
I'm a Democrat, and I want our immigration laws enforced. I'm horrified by Trump and I want him impeached, and I want our immigration laws enforced. Building a wall is stupid and it won't happen, but I still want our immigration laws enforced.
Many liberals agree with me on this issue. The Democrats need to come back from the edge on immigration.
Many liberals agree with me on this issue. The Democrats need to come back from the edge on immigration.
57
Impeachment does not mean removal from office. I keep reading this kind of comment and cannot get over the ignorance behind it. We have had two presidents impeached and neither were removed. Too tough for you?
7
Maybe Lilith does know what impeachment means. Why the nastiness coupled with your assumption?
5
Only the NYT or WAPA would print an article like this. We don't need a broken headlight or any other infraction to deport illegals. When are the liberals going to get it, illegal means illegal. We lock people up in this country for leaving dogs in hot cars. These people are illegally in this country, no drivers license, speeding and endangering their kids by not securing them properly in the car.
48
Whenever I hear people say that illegals take jobs that Americans don't want and won't do, I want to scream. Nobody should have to do horrible jobs. Make them jobs that Americans will do. Provide job security and benefits, e.g. Start a federal program to support farm workers who must migrate with crops, so that they have steady employment through a federal agency, e.g. Middle class people don't understand this. They think it's lovely that there are people who will mow their lawns and refinish their floors so cheaply. Working class Americans are the ones who suffer every time illegals take a job for a ridiculously low wage. Illegal immigration is a huge problem for working people, but a boon for the middle class.
28
Anyone here illegally should be deported, period. Being in the U.S. is not an entitlement for everybody that wants to come here. We're already the third most populous nation on Earth, behind China and India, and I don't want to live in a situation that resembles either of those countries. At some point, citizens of problem countries have to work to make their country a better place to live, not dump the problem on us by contributing to overpopulation. Enough is enough.
44
One cannot snidely violate a country's immigration laws and think they'll never have to pay for their transgressions.
39
When will the Times feature a sympathetic piece detailing prospective U.S. Immigrant candidates going through the arduous process including accompanying swearing in photo upon completion?
33
These are people who's first act is to break the law. As crossing the border illegally is a federal crime. Because their lawlessness has been tolerated for so long by corrupt politicians. The illegal aliens become embolden to break other laws like driving without a license and without insurance. One reason that President Eisenhower gave for cracking down on illegal aliens is the lawlessness that comes with this crime. Not just by those who enter the country illegally who go on to break other laws but also by the corrupt Americans who break the law by hiring them. If you want to encourage respect for the law the last thing you should do is give drivers licenses or amnesty to those who had no respect for the law.
38
Bravo Times! Another well balanced piece with many tear producing tales of immigration advocates and one so-so supporter of the law.
These articles are so biased that they are a disgrace!
These articles are so biased that they are a disgrace!
44
Too bad the article did not discuss insurance. I would bet most of the unlicensed are also uninsured, a financial burden on the rest of us who do properly insure our vehicles.
41
Those who get deported after traffic stops are the lucky ones. These days cops will murder you if you have dark skin and have (or don't have) a broken tail light. The prosecutors will look the other way and so will many jurors. Face it, americans, racism is rampant in the United States of America, and this is one of the ways it shows. They won't be satisfied until they deport everyone who is not White. You know, the good old days.
If you were right it would be scary.
8
Crickets.
3
No, contrary to your front-page heading, a broken headlight is not getting the two sisters deported. Remaining in the US illegally is getting them deported.
63
You lost me with the part about driving without licenses.
Scofflaws in more ways than one.
Scofflaws in more ways than one.
29
Last line of the article: "I have to be perfect."
No, you don't have to be perfect, but you DO have to be law abiding or deal with the consequences.
No, you don't have to be perfect, but you DO have to be law abiding or deal with the consequences.
43
Good heavens. An article on illegal immigration where the comments are surprisingly anti-illegal immigration. The tide is finally turning. People have had enough — even NY Times readers!
49
I'm not remotely close to being a Trump fan. Sooner he's out of the Whitehouse the better. I do agree with enforcing laws against illegal immigration. This also needs to include businesses which hire them. If the regulations or laws need to be updated then do so. People deserve opportunities and legal efficient ways to do so.
26
when I arrived in this country many years ago I did not have a license. Guess what, I took the bus. it was painful and slow but I did not break the law and start driving a car without a valid license. why does the New York Times think is okay for illegal immigrants to do so?
54
"When a Broken Headlight Leads to Deportation" - Fake news headline.
"Illegal Immigrants Violate Multiple Laws, Face Deportation" - Truth.
"Illegal Immigrants Violate Multiple Laws, Face Deportation" - Truth.
48
Although it's often the Editorial Board that puts out these pro-illegal op-eds, this one is written by Ms. Robbins, who holds the title of "immigration reporter" according to her LinkedIn page. Seems she's held this title for a couple of years now and has produced related pieces every week or 10 days.
With a full timer or the beat, I expect we'll see more of these tear-jerkers as time goes on. Based on the general tone of the comments here, seems like a thankless job.
With a full timer or the beat, I expect we'll see more of these tear-jerkers as time goes on. Based on the general tone of the comments here, seems like a thankless job.
27
By "undocumented" and "unauthorized," do you mean people who knowingly came here illegally? People who bypassed not only our immigration laws, but also bypassed the millions of people who play by the rules and wait their turn?
This sort of politically motivated doublespeak puts your feelings where facts should be... and hence it's lousy journalism.
This sort of politically motivated doublespeak puts your feelings where facts should be... and hence it's lousy journalism.
46
Perhaps Liz Robbins and the New York Times should assist Mr Córdona become a US citizen or at least encourage him and guide him on how to navigate through the process rather than promote that New York State and other states issue licenses of any sort that discourages a pathway to legal status.
5
Reporters will watch you starve as they report their story. How does navigating the INS fit it?
2
Business opportunity for Uber and Lyft???
4
This is just another example of how the media (yes, The New York Times) does not give a balanced view of issues. It is either far right or far left folderol to "better" their respective agendas. How refreshing it would be to see balanced reporting of issues instead of poorly disguised jabs at the "other side". Alas, fair and unbiased reporting is a thing of the past.
I subscribe to the Times, and will probably continue to do so. However, when I read more and more articles of this type, I begin to question why.
I subscribe to the Times, and will probably continue to do so. However, when I read more and more articles of this type, I begin to question why.
33
I do not feel sorry for any of these people. If I went to EU and entered illegally, and got caught doing ANYTHING wrong, I would expect to be deported. In this case you have people who probably never took drivers ed, dont speak english, cant read english, who are endangering their own children by not having safety seats, and the rest of us. I do not understand why the media is so bleeding heart about this. go home and enter through the proper channels. and learn English please!
43
There are "no proper channels" to enter.
Question: I'm confused. Is an "unauthorized immigrant" anything like an "illegal immigrant"? An illegal immigrant, I believe, is one who has entered the USA without permission and without the proper documentation. That is clearly against the law, for many obvious reasons. But what exactly is an "unauthorized immigrant'?
Also in this article, the term "undocumented immigrant". What's that, exactly? Anything like an illegal immigrant?
Also in this article, the term "undocumented immigrant". What's that, exactly? Anything like an illegal immigrant?
41
A broken headlight didn't lead to deportation - a broken law did. A law that exists to protect EVERYONE driving in a car in this great country, man woman and child. There should be zero wiggle room on this law.
33
Articles like this one is one of the reasons Democrats lose elections. They care more about the Illegal immigrants than they do some U.S citizens.
43
I am ignorant, as in not possessing enough knowledge, on the subject but I don't know why many illegal immigrants did not take advantage of the various amnesty windows that have been provided for them in the past. I can understand why those with criminal records did not apply for green cards, but why not the rest?
There is no excuse for driving without a license, and as adults they should have known this without being told. Adults with family who will suffer too from their lack of responsibility.
I welcome all but there is an immigration process that must be followed, and laws that must be obeyed even if your citizen status is only temporary.
There is no excuse for driving without a license, and as adults they should have known this without being told. Adults with family who will suffer too from their lack of responsibility.
I welcome all but there is an immigration process that must be followed, and laws that must be obeyed even if your citizen status is only temporary.
13
There were no "amnesties". It is not a matter of "going through the process" to apply for a greencard. THERE IS NO WAY for the vast majority of people like the ones depicted in this article- to come here legally or to regularize their status. There was ONE amnesty and ONLY for people who had worked in agriculture, and that was under President Reagan. So yes, you are ignorant on this matter.
1
Besides the fact that she was driving without a license, the bigger crime is not having insurance. In some places, they would impound your vehicle. Besides putting themselves and their children at risk, the risk the lives of innocent people on foot, on a bicycle on in another vehicle.
If you get in an accident and and do not have uninsured motorist or under insured motorist, the Victim becomes the real loser. The driver can just leave the country and their problems are over, while the victims problems just begin. This is wrong. If a citizen did this they would be fined or put in jail for driving unlicensed or being uninsured. I do not see any argument here....
If you get in an accident and and do not have uninsured motorist or under insured motorist, the Victim becomes the real loser. The driver can just leave the country and their problems are over, while the victims problems just begin. This is wrong. If a citizen did this they would be fined or put in jail for driving unlicensed or being uninsured. I do not see any argument here....
26
If I knowingly commit a crime and flee from the police, I can expect to be arrested if I am pulled over for a traffic violation. Why should those who knowingly break the law by illegally crossing the border be treated any differently?
28
When I drive in Joliet, IL which has a high Latino population, I often suspect that another driver is illegally in the US. They drive slowly and follow all of the traffic and driving laws. Police have no probable cause to stop them. Those persons in the US legally drive the same way as most Americans.
4
So yet again the poor, poor immigrant sisters who nevertheless were 'driving with their FIVE children.' Poor Carlos Cardona, with his child with a woman with whom he is not married. Each of those children were probably delivered in an American hospital for free at a cost of at least $10,000 a piece.
Soon they will each go to school and they each will cost $10,000 a year to educate.
California has issued licenses to 600,00 illegal aliens in 2015. How does that impact the traffic jams and climate change in the state.
I don't worry about terrorists among them, I am bothered when i can't afford to go to the dentists, I am worried about skyrocketing medical premiums and deductibles, i am bothered about picking and choosing t
I am worried about population in the USA and the world.
It all comes together there with the license issue.
I can't stand Trump but this is why he was elected; it had little to do with ACA but rather the impact of immigrants on emergency room care and how it works its way into medical insurance coverage, etc.
It's all part of the same ball of wax.
Soon they will each go to school and they each will cost $10,000 a year to educate.
California has issued licenses to 600,00 illegal aliens in 2015. How does that impact the traffic jams and climate change in the state.
I don't worry about terrorists among them, I am bothered when i can't afford to go to the dentists, I am worried about skyrocketing medical premiums and deductibles, i am bothered about picking and choosing t
I am worried about population in the USA and the world.
It all comes together there with the license issue.
I can't stand Trump but this is why he was elected; it had little to do with ACA but rather the impact of immigrants on emergency room care and how it works its way into medical insurance coverage, etc.
It's all part of the same ball of wax.
34
Have a hard time agreeing that somehow the longer you successfully break a law or laws, you are no longer subject to them. Would anyone expect this to happen in Mexico or anywhere else?
I have sympathy for the children brought over who had no choice in the matter. Don't have much for these people. You deliberately break the law here, you take your chances just like anywhere else.
I have sympathy for the children brought over who had no choice in the matter. Don't have much for these people. You deliberately break the law here, you take your chances just like anywhere else.
30
Another overlooked problem from granting driver's licenses to illegal aliens is the issue of automatic voter registration via Motor Voter laws. Vermont's Jim Condos, the Secretary of State in charge of voter registration, admitted this past February that there has been a problem with the Motor Voter law automatically registering anyone who gets a driver's license, including both legal and illegal aliens. Some thoughtful foreign citizens with legal residency brought this to the attention of the authorities.
19
I have one question? Do "Undocumented Immigrants" follow ANY laws?
33
If you do not have the legal permission to be here, you should not have legal permission to drive here either. When someone is breaking a federal law to enter the country, they know they are risking getting sent back. It is truly arrogant when someone believes they have a right to stay in a country when they never had the permission to enter. It is not the U.S. fault that Mexico and other countries south of the border are not taking care of their people. Where are those people demanding that Mexico and its southern neighbors to do something to take better care of their own people? If all those vocal activists for all those immigrants that are here without permission were to activate against the Mexican government and it southern neighbors maybe the people in those countries would not feel they need to leave their country.
22
The State of Illinois allows illegal immigrants to have drivers licenses. Because the hard working illegal immigrants help our economy. Yeah right. So why are we on the verge of bankruptcy and have record gun violence? I'm a democrat who voted for Sanders - but this is looney public policy.
28
All immigrants to be held accountable to US law.
17
Illegal aliens need licenses in order to be productive members of the community; goes the argument. First law broken, entering illegally, followed by multiple vehicular violations:unlicensed operator of vehicle; uninsured and unregistered vehicle. The argument that less laws would be violated if illegal aliens were given the opportunity to obtain a driver license is spurious. Further it is believed, illegal aliens would contribute millions in registration and licenses fees; but could not the same argument be made if they legally entered the US. I do not sympathize with these tales of "woe"! A person who decided to enter illegally; live in the shadows and circumvent rules and regulation that define the community in which they inhabit, did so by choice. Any encounter with law enforcement is a burden on them. A person who is in NY state illegally and obtains a vehicle to operate shows the contempt for the rules of a lawful society!
33
I am not quite sure what the point of these articles is. Presumably we are supposed to sympathize with the illegal immigrants and help turn the tide against them.
I am a naturalized US citizen, I don't feel strongly about illegal immigration, but tend to be against it.
The one thing I know for sure is the rules are being enforced because Trump was elected president and his posture on immigration helped get him elected in a big way.
Any candidate that is deemed to be soft on immigration starts at a disadvantage in any future elections. The majority of the population is against illegal immigration.
In my parochial view, getting rid of the "great negotiator" is of paramount importance in future elections, as such these articles help not one bit.
The democratic party needs to articulate a strong position on illegal immigration, otherwise they will remain as the party of no power.
I am a naturalized US citizen, I don't feel strongly about illegal immigration, but tend to be against it.
The one thing I know for sure is the rules are being enforced because Trump was elected president and his posture on immigration helped get him elected in a big way.
Any candidate that is deemed to be soft on immigration starts at a disadvantage in any future elections. The majority of the population is against illegal immigration.
In my parochial view, getting rid of the "great negotiator" is of paramount importance in future elections, as such these articles help not one bit.
The democratic party needs to articulate a strong position on illegal immigration, otherwise they will remain as the party of no power.
44
Your chances to become a victim of terrorism in the US are statistically infinitesimally small. Your chances to become a victim in a traffic incident in the US are quite substantial. My 20 year old sun was recently mowed down on his bicycle by a car. The driver came from behind and clearly was at fault, he simply overlooked him. Through a combination of extreme luck (no traffic from the other side, impact was only with the bike and not the body, etc,. he only ended up with a few skin abrasions and bruises in the back, resulting in back pain for a couple of days. The driver stopped, but could hardly communicate in English, and drove away when the word let's call the police was mentioned. My son, still sitting dazed on the ground, was not able to gather any license plate information. You can think about the immigration status of this driver what you want, and maybe he had a license, who knows, but cars can and do cause great damage to so many people in our society and I can't really understand why anyone would condone driving without a license.
43
Deliberate lawbreakers from other countries shouldn't expect special favors.
We live in New York and my wife is a legal immigrant. We didn't break laws. Instead we followed the process, and New York issued a driver's license to her with no problem at all. The current system works for those who obey the law rather than break it and ask for privileged treatment.
We have far too many working-class Americans barely making ends meet. Once we have full employment and livable wages for every American citizen- including our fellow Hispanic American citizens struggling in Puerto Rico, then we can talk about making immigration for non-citizens easier. America first!
We live in New York and my wife is a legal immigrant. We didn't break laws. Instead we followed the process, and New York issued a driver's license to her with no problem at all. The current system works for those who obey the law rather than break it and ask for privileged treatment.
We have far too many working-class Americans barely making ends meet. Once we have full employment and livable wages for every American citizen- including our fellow Hispanic American citizens struggling in Puerto Rico, then we can talk about making immigration for non-citizens easier. America first!
59
People must understand that many organizations that promote very liberal causes such as providing "driving" privileges to illegal/ undocumented people do not always have the best interest of the people they claim to represent, but rather it is their own economic interests ( getting a paycheck) from donations, government funding and / or payment from those seeking their services that driving motivation.
33
Personally I fail to see how permitting unlawfully present foreign law breakers the privilege of a driver’s license will change how many people flee the scene after a traffic accident. People of good character will stop and wait for the police if they caused an accident regardless of their immigration status. People of poor character will flee the scene; after all it happens every day regardless immigration status.
27
They are here illegally. The word 'undocumented' makes not sense - it implies the person left their valid visa, birth certificate etc at home when questioned and could produce it.
Persons here illegally should not be given drivers licenses. The license might be displayed as 'evidence' that the person is here legally in other venues.
Persons here illegally should not be given drivers licenses. The license might be displayed as 'evidence' that the person is here legally in other venues.
19
My friend, people of good character do not drive with the potential of causing financial ruin and inadequate care for their victim(s). Whether they should have licenses and insurance is another issue. But don't pontificate about good character
when your argument is so obviously faulty.
when your argument is so obviously faulty.
4
There is, or shouldn't be, any discussion about driving without a license. The car should be impounded and the person taken to court whether immigrant with or without papers or non immigrant with papers.
Driving without a license and insurance is Dangerous, puts the population in danger in every case. It should not be tolerated.
Driving without a license and insurance is Dangerous, puts the population in danger in every case. It should not be tolerated.
53
America cannot provide jobs for everyone. Hispanics take many jobs from Americans, especially African-Americans. Get them all out!
35
You realize that you are implying that Hispanics are not Americans, right? Where do you get that from?
4
So - there is a significant number of people (seeming in the majority) that say the President and executive branch should not aggressively enforce and uphold laws that are on the books governing immigration/residency requirements. Does this group then also support the President and executive branch taking a similar approach to the Affordable Care Act and not fund it fully or have other provisions in it enforced?
27
Obama decided to not enforce the long term care provisions of the Obamacare law. That part called the CLASS Act, was supposed to save 800 billion dollars in Medicaid expenses.
3
That is the problem with picking and choosing what laws are enforced based on politics. The failure not just by Obama but by previous Democrat and Republican administrations is what got Trump elected POTUS. If you are POTUS what you do not do is fail to uphold and enforce the law as the Constitution requires. If you do not like the current immigration laws the proper approach is to get Congress to change them. If Congress won't change the law you get the people to elect a different Congress.
6
This is "legal" terrorism, intended to strike fear in undocumented immigrants. It is the moral equivalent of randomly shooting them.
1
Honestly Larry, why should people who broke the law to enter this country (many of them more than once) not live an apprehensive existence here? We are a nation of laws. We teach and socialize children to learn and respect our laws so that society as a whole can remain stable and hopefully prosper. How does ignoring many many (many!) millions of law breakers further this bedrock notion of all civilized nations? And look how slippery the slope indeed has already become? It is patently absurd to bestow a privilege such as a driver's license on people who violated our Country and our Society from the very get go.
26
No, it's not terrorism.
Perhaps what they're feeling is guilt. They should.
Perhaps what they're feeling is guilt. They should.
14
Larry. Please explain. Fear of our laws being enforced is the "moral equivalent of shooting them??"
8
Does Mr. Bartolucci actually think that only illegal immigrants drink and drive? Recent data shows that over 20% of US lawyers have a drinking problem. Many believe that the numbers are understated. And for those of you who hate immigrants, what is your excuse for denying the real issues of BLM? Most white americans are 3rd or 4th generation americans. Black americans are typically many many more generation americans. I'm tired of listening to the opinions of racist people.
2
OK, but what does this have to do with people who are NOT citizens of this country and who came here illegally? Almost everyone I speak with - on the left and the right - loves immigration and understands how important it is to our Country.
It ILLEGAL immigration that is eating away at the core of us.
Hate and Racism has nothing to do with this and conflating the two issues is tiresome and played out.
It ILLEGAL immigration that is eating away at the core of us.
Hate and Racism has nothing to do with this and conflating the two issues is tiresome and played out.
16
Do you habitually drive without a license? Would you ever do so? Would you think about doing so in a country other than your own?
5
Actually, it sounds like you have a problem with smarter people who have a different opinion than you.
2
A greater risk surely is faced by those who are out with these people on the road who not only cause horrible accidents but then flee. They rarely speak or read English which causes more problems when they drive. Add to that the alcohol use by Hispanic males and it's terrifying. And yes I live in California.
38
They often flee to Mexico (funny how doing that after a bad accident is suddenly ok) where prosecution is basically impossible.
9
Reagan signed an amnesty during his presidency on the promise that our borders would be secured and our immigration laws enforced henceforth. That didn't happen.
Had we been strictly enforcing our immigration laws since then, we wouldn't have 11 or 12 million illegals and there would be scant justification for awarding driving licenses to the few who might be here illegally.
Better late than never. In this one arena, Trump is moving us in the right direction.
Had we been strictly enforcing our immigration laws since then, we wouldn't have 11 or 12 million illegals and there would be scant justification for awarding driving licenses to the few who might be here illegally.
Better late than never. In this one arena, Trump is moving us in the right direction.
59
Once more with feeling:
You either have an immigration law, or you don't.
You either enforce it, or you don't.
There is no reform which will do anything that was not done thirty years ago. People who clamor for reform really mean amnesty. We had amnesty once. How many amnesties would you like? If you have an amnesty cycle, what is the point of having an immigration law?
You either have an immigration law, or you don't.
You either enforce it, or you don't.
There is no reform which will do anything that was not done thirty years ago. People who clamor for reform really mean amnesty. We had amnesty once. How many amnesties would you like? If you have an amnesty cycle, what is the point of having an immigration law?
78
I had a friend who was struck and seriously injured by an illegal alien who was driving a pickup without a license. Whatever the politics of handling illegal aliens we just cannot afford to have unlicensed drivers on the road and deportation seems a minor penalty for the crime.
74
Fortunately Obamacare paid the medical costs.
There are truck driving operations that want to hire these illegals if they can receive their driver's licenses. Don't allow them to hire these people as commercial operators. It endangers the highways and our lives.
Plus again, it lowers the wages of our homegrown workers. You know, men and women who need to provide and feed their families right here in America.
Plus again, it lowers the wages of our homegrown workers. You know, men and women who need to provide and feed their families right here in America.
80
You make a good point, one I had not thought of.
14
You make a good point, one I had not thought of. But let's take it further, shall we? I mean, as Cod says, "Illegals" don't know how to drive. Must be something in their genes. Or skin color. Or foreign language. Let's stop endangering our lives and let's stop lowering the wages of our "homegrown" workers.
And by all means, let's keep those barbarians at the gate subdued, perhaps with Percocet, until our beloved president comes up with another reason to stop calling this place the land of the free.
And by all means, let's keep those barbarians at the gate subdued, perhaps with Percocet, until our beloved president comes up with another reason to stop calling this place the land of the free.
This is not about illegals being able to drive or not. The issue is that you need a license to drive. Can't show it? you have a problem. Happen to be illegally here? then double problem.
Some of us had to pay a lot of money and spend a lot of effort to get green cards. Everyone should have to go follow the rules.
Some of us had to pay a lot of money and spend a lot of effort to get green cards. Everyone should have to go follow the rules.
10
If people are in the US illegaly, then they are violating the laws of this country and must be sent back to their country of origin. Having illegal immigrants be given licences to drive automobiles is wrong and without merit.
69
It's not the headlight. It's the fact that they are here illegally.
70
People who are undocumented can only be placed in removal proceedings if ICE has either: a)documents that show alienage (i.e., a cedula, a passport, an international driver's license), b) a statement from the individual, or c) Other evidence of alienage, like pictures and fingerprints of that person if he/she was previously apprehended at the border. If you are undocumented and law enforcement or ICE gets a hold of you, DO NOT offer to provide any kind of documentation that shows your country of origin/nationality. Do not lie: do not say you are a US citizen if you are not, but people are under NO OBLIGATION to answer the question: "where are you from?". The correct answer is: "I invoke my right to remain silent". That should be the end of it. Yes, a police officer can give you a ticket for driving without a license, but ICE will never succeed in deporting you if you do not offer proof of your country of origin. ICE has the BURDEN OF PROOF to show that a person that is placed in removal proceedings is NOT a US citizen. Having an accent, being unable to speak English or one's skin color IS NOT proof of alienage. ICE can only start removal proceedings if you provide them with proof that you are not a US citizen. Do not give them ammunition: a)do not drive with any documentation showing your country of origin, b) do not tell any law enforcement officer where you are from, if you are not a U.S. citizen.
And also, keep driving an uninsured car which fails to pass inspection because you came to the U.S. to take advantage of all the services that the U.S. provides, not to obey the laws and become a legal citizen.
22
There are pull and push factors to immigration, and the truth is that all of us living in this country benefit from illegal immigration. The point of this article is that if undocumented people were able to get driver's licenses, then they would not need to drive uninsured cars, which would be safer for everyone. I do not know where you get the information about immigrants "taking advantage" of "all the services" that this country provides. I have been representing that population for 18 years and, in my experience, the vast majority of them go out of their way to pay taxes, while being INELIGIBLE to receive any kind of means-tested benefits, but you do not need to take my word for it, there is plenty of research backing those facts. Also, there is no way to become a legal permanent resident, let alone citizen for most of these people, because our immigration system is a disaster, it is obsolete and does not meet the needs of this country.
At least in the future visa overstayers will have biometric data on file, so that "loophole" will disappear.
I suspect failure to provide any identification will result in the vehicle being seized and the driver jailed.
I suspect failure to provide any identification will result in the vehicle being seized and the driver jailed.
7
And if one of these people kills or maims a child of one of our elitists on the upper west side, then what? And if they had a license do you think they would buy car insurance anyway any more than the minimum if that?
55
if they can only buy minimum car insurance they are like more than half of millennials. So what?
1
Incredible. Driving a 5000 pound murder weapon without insurance is somehow OK if you are undocumented? Not to me. And the same goes for citizens who do the same. The difference is that there is a process for ridding us of the undocumented drivers who have no regard for the rest of us; unfortunately there is little we can do about our fellow Americans who are equally morally bankrupt.
63
Illegals are criminals. Giving them licenses merely allows them to do their criminal activities, including stealing jobs, destroying our schools, raising our rents, with more ease and comfort. I want them to be miserable, to be uncomfortable. They are here stealing the American life. It should not be easy or comfortable for them. When they are caught, they need to be deported.
55
Don't blame them, blame your friendly neighborhood politician for this.
6
I am a Democrat, and find most Republican 'policies' absolutely loathsome but they are right about this. Illegal immigrants should self deport.
8
I'm supposed to feel sorry for them - - why?
70
I'm excited to hear about Democratic plans to roll back immigration laws since according to the NY Times they don't need to be enforced. And think of how cheap the cleaning ladies will get after that. The competition on the UES will be intense!
41
I would like to see politicians cleaning their own offices.
4
I'd like to see politicians cleaning OUT their offices permanently.
Pretty depressing, how every article in NYT about immigrants and the undocumented is sure to be accompanied by comments lacking in compassion toward fellow human beings-- or worse, outright vitriol. A quick look at top comment picks nowadays serves mostly to confirm how mean spirited & rigid fellow readers seem to be regarding this topic (woeful especially since approach gives only emotional satisfaction to commenter yet provides zero practical answers).
Also sad because NYT comments section generally has been source for thoughtful insights and additional perspectives. Immigration however stands as clear exception (other controversial article topics such as reproductive rights or 2nd amendment have less monolithic comments than immigration).
Also sad because NYT comments section generally has been source for thoughtful insights and additional perspectives. Immigration however stands as clear exception (other controversial article topics such as reproductive rights or 2nd amendment have less monolithic comments than immigration).
6
I am curious, what do you mean when you say: "legalize all foreign criminals"? Undocumented people are not criminals. Immigration laws are administrative laws, not criminal. Violating immigration law is not tantamount to committing a crime.
2
@ Mafi28
Good John Fagin is quite correct to call illegal aliens criminals. It is nearly impossible for an adult illegal alien to make a living in this country without breaking criminal laws; working in violation of the law and lying on government documents are just two examples of criminal violations of the law. Illegal entry and illegal presents are rarely the only laws violated by illegal aliens.
Good John Fagin is quite correct to call illegal aliens criminals. It is nearly impossible for an adult illegal alien to make a living in this country without breaking criminal laws; working in violation of the law and lying on government documents are just two examples of criminal violations of the law. Illegal entry and illegal presents are rarely the only laws violated by illegal aliens.
4
Breaking immigrants laws makes a person a criminal like it or not.
6
They're here illegally. The more we give them in documentation, the more the expectation is that their illegal entry will go away. And they are then surprised when they are deported. This simply has to stop.
65
Did you read the article? The insurance benefits to society alone would be worth it. They are here anyway, so why not make it safer for everyone also? Please try to look past your feelings and look at issue from a practical stand point.
4
most can't afford the car, much less insurance. do you even know any illegals?
8
What insurance benefits? Unless you mean people with good driving records will receive discounts since the insurers will possibly pay out more than the can collect from undocumented/ illegals purchasing liability insurance.
2
This article suggests more than once that a number of American states don't allow non-citizens to obtain driver's licenses. But surely non-Americans who are legally resident in the U.S. can get driver's licenses in an any state, can't they?
I suspect that it's only non-citizens who are illegally in the U.S. who have trouble getting driver's licenses.
I suspect that it's only non-citizens who are illegally in the U.S. who have trouble getting driver's licenses.
25
Wow. I read several of the comments below and conclude that it looks like the nattering negative trolls are out in force today. As usual, they miss the point of the article. The point is that persons who are illegally in the USA to work are unable to obtain drivers licenses which puts others at risk since unlicensed drivers often do not know the rules of the road and they do not carry insurance. There are no violins playing in the background. A special license would act as an ID and also enable them to obtain driver's training and insurance. It could be limited to driving, not valid to fly on an airplane or enter any federal building. It could be made to be renewable annually. If used as an ID for any purpose other than driving it could be a red flag to officers and other authorities. If the 9/11 hijackers, for example, had been required to have a license that expired with their visas and that were limited to driving, they would not have been able to use them to get on planes or to go to flight school. It is a no brainer. We would be SAFER in this country and on the roads if undocumented workers were required to at least be document as drivers.
6
So a special drivers permit should be issued to people here illegally so at least they can drive 'legally'.
And then hand a flashlight to the burglar who breaks into my house so at least he can see well?
And then hand a flashlight to the burglar who breaks into my house so at least he can see well?
28
We have such a law in Maryland where I live. It has not protected us from illegals who get drunk and kill other drivers, as a quick Google search will confirm. It has not protected us from an avalanche of accidents involving uninsured illegals. What it has done is make it nearly impossible for teenage citizens to schedule a driver's test as that resource is overwhelmed by illegals. And it has attracted more illegals here from Virginia and West Virginia as it has become clear Maryland has no problem spending massive amounts of tax dollars accommodating them with health care, endless spending in the school system for English as a Second Language programs (the highest single expenditure in the once exemplary state schools) for food stamps and for expensive state advocacy programs. New Yorkers should resist such a program in every possible legal way.
16
You buried the lede in the third sentence. They can't legally work. If they can't legally work, they don't need transportation to a job.
32
Why do we bend over backwards making excuses for lawbreakers when they are illegal immigrants?
Driving a car with a bunch of kids in it on public roads without a license? I haven't met anyone in my adult life who has ever done that. That's frightening.
In any event, the public policy and laws of the United States provide that illegal immigrants have no legal right to enter, work and live in this country. The fact that our laws are being enforced is fairly unremarkable and uncontroversial in my opinion. If you want different laws, pass them.
Driving a car with a bunch of kids in it on public roads without a license? I haven't met anyone in my adult life who has ever done that. That's frightening.
In any event, the public policy and laws of the United States provide that illegal immigrants have no legal right to enter, work and live in this country. The fact that our laws are being enforced is fairly unremarkable and uncontroversial in my opinion. If you want different laws, pass them.
80
Furthermore, the illegals in this incident were breaking the law by not having their young children in car seats. It's hard to feel sympathy for these negligent parents.
20
Giving driver's licenses to illegal aliens is giving them one more step towards amnesty. I'd like to know how many illegal alien drunk drivers with no license have been stopped, how many were jailed and how many have been deported. The farmworker and her sister stopped for speeding were driving with 5 children in the car, two without the required car seats. How many other violations are they guilty of? They should not be facing deportation, they should BE deported.
61
There are fines for all the "minor traffic violations" the NYT claim are minor. A broken headlight is not nearly the same as a child not in the proper chair. These people are illegal aliens, not "undocumented". The "moving car" has not recently become an "easy target"; it's just lately the laws are (hopefully) being enforced. This is a biased article starting with the child in the photo. The child that isn't even protected by the parent, but used to gain sympathy from readers? The wording is wrong, the slant of "minor" offenses being "used" is biased. Why have special rights for illegal aliens? If anyone wants an eye-opening experience go to "Spanish interpretation" day in traffic court. You will witness Multiple violations by single individuals. I experienced this when I was in court for a seat belt violation years ago. Every week the courts pay extra to attempt to fine and/or arrest these illegals. They just refuse to pay, they flee either the county or the demand letters. The court had a variations of their commonly used three names (their middle name and last being used on fines). It was laughable it was so ridiculous to try and get any money for disregard or to get any adherence to the laws. Read all these comments and by far we are sick of this special treatment of illegals -- starting with not even using the correct language! Deport illegal aliens ASAP and as cheaply as possible. Take their many children with them. Do not give a drivers license to these illegals.
47
Is the reporter expecting a sympathetic reader when the article begins with a speeding car and two children not in car seats??
70
Good article.. I wish I could clone myself so I could vote for Trump twice !! Keep up the progressive nonsense.. maybe it is time to focus more on hard working deserving Americans in the future..
47
Save your wishes for other concerns. With articles like this, the NYT is cloning your vote on your behalf.
10
An American friend of mine overstayed his 90 day EU visa. When he was found out he was deported. Heavy fine and he's not allowed back for years, if ever. This has happened to many Americans. Where's the sympathetic NYT article about the Illegal Americans kicked out of Europe? That article might come when the editors see the 'American refugees fleeing Trump's USA' angle.
65
First and foremost are the considerations of officer safety. The most dangerous part of policing is making traffic stops. And if the driver has no license or other adequate ID, the officer has no way of knowing whether he has sopped a choir boy or a mass murderer. As a practical matte, there are 11 million illegals in this country and they all need to drive. When any of them are stopped -- and that's inevitable -- officer safety is at stake. Illegals must be issued some form of id so that the police know who they are dealing with. Risking police lives in order to identify illegals is a terrible mistake in priorities.
3
There are far more than 11 million illegals here, to be sure. Dont fall for the pro-illegal propaganda.
Cali, texas and florida likely have 10 million illegals between them and that is just the tip of the iceberg lettuce.
Cali, texas and florida likely have 10 million illegals between them and that is just the tip of the iceberg lettuce.
22
Why would you think for one minute that an ID card will make an officer safer when they pull over a person who is ACTIVELY VIOLATING the law? Is an officer safer when they pull over a drunk with an ID?
6
So their first act in their adopted country is to break the law and then they want to have the right to drive. Really? I would never drive a child around without a car seat, or fail to put on a seatbelt. The are not minor traffic violations. They have broken the law by being here illegally and should be sent back to where they came from. I don't agree with Trump on anything, other than this. I am a legal immigrant, I waited in line, paid to apply and have abided by all laws in the country since I came here. Anyone who doesn't, needs to be returned to where they came from. Get with it NYT, we're fed up with stories about people who line jump and then have 5 kids and whine when they get caught breaking 'minor' laws.
53
The illegal aliens don't respect any of our laws. They drive without a license or insurance. They get forged documents to work which is identity theft, or they work under the table which is tax evasion. Since the Democrats told them not to worry about breaking these laws, they had no reason to respect any of our other laws either. A lot of them drive drunk. If they have an accident, they will try to escape the scene of the accident. Check the names and mugshots from your local sheriff. See who are committing all of the crime in your area. These people are in our country illegally, and all should, and will be deported.
46
The 2 woman in the story were speeding and some of the kids were not in child seats and they didn't have a license. I am fine with deporting people with such little regard for our laws.
77
More free advertising for Trump 2020.
51
If democrats want to win in the midterms & in 2020 they need to stop the pro illegal immigration policies.
I will not vote for Trump in 2020 but the democrats could swing over some independents & moderate republicans.
I will not vote for Trump in 2020 but the democrats could swing over some independents & moderate republicans.
7
The argument that "this would not have happened had he not been in the country" is superfluous. That can be said with any murderer/criminal. "Had he not been born this would not have happened". Lets stop vilifying immigrants into specific categories "rapists" "drunk drivers" etc. when one person does something wrong. Lets stop giving credit to this nonsensical argument.
4
Illegals are not immigrants. They are criminals. If we started arresting those like yourself who are giving aid and comfort the illegals criminals, that would be a very good thing.
21
A range of risks, known and unknown ones, measurable and unmeasurable ones, controllable and uncontrollable ones, with a myriad of expected and unexpected outcomes and implications are part of the ongoing, complexities of known, unknown and unknowable refugees and immigrants. Whatever their legal status. Their self and labeled identities by others. In our WE-THEY toxic,violating cultures.Ironically, risk management,
an available, accessible dynamic process and concept, of dimensionalized levels and qualities, is associated with money. Investments. Not so much with people. So, we continue, daily, to do more, and more if the same, institutionalizing and anchoring social-policy failures.
an available, accessible dynamic process and concept, of dimensionalized levels and qualities, is associated with money. Investments. Not so much with people. So, we continue, daily, to do more, and more if the same, institutionalizing and anchoring social-policy failures.
1
Breast-feeding a child while that child is in a car seat is not illegal and perfectly feasible. (I have done it.) Not putting your child I a carseat is a serious crime, as is DUI. Don't confuse these things with not being able to get a driver's license. The Times has lately confused being an innocent illegal immigrant with those who are arrested for serious crimes.
I am in favor of driver's licenses for illegal immigrants, but more important is a path to becoming legal. And it must include higher wages for ALL Americans.
I am in favor of driver's licenses for illegal immigrants, but more important is a path to becoming legal. And it must include higher wages for ALL Americans.
2
"innocent illegal immigrant" makes no sense. There is no such thing as an "innocent" illegal immigrant. Illegal immigrants are, by definition, guilty of breaking a serious law, and should be punished accordingly.
There is no other law in our country that we look the other way on and only enforce if a person commits more crimes on top of it. When did it become normal to ignore breaking the law if the person is not breaking even more laws in addition?
There is no other law in our country that we look the other way on and only enforce if a person commits more crimes on top of it. When did it become normal to ignore breaking the law if the person is not breaking even more laws in addition?
18
So are you saying breast feeding while driving is not considered a means of distraction for the driver and / or other drivers on the road?
1
These folks can always get an international drivers license, so there is really no excuse.
Also, if a law is passed to grant licenses to illegals, will there be increased penalties for driving without insurance. Getting a license does not guarantee the driver will get insured. Raise the penalties for driving without insurance - to automatic deportation.
Also, if a law is passed to grant licenses to illegals, will there be increased penalties for driving without insurance. Getting a license does not guarantee the driver will get insured. Raise the penalties for driving without insurance - to automatic deportation.
22
Very sensible but this opposes the liberal minded to gain any traction since one side of the legislative branch is stuck on conspiracy theories as the other side is stepping on the own feet with attempting to fix the healthcare insurance problems.
Perhaps part of the penalty should be fines levied against the countries where the illegal immigrates are from , which can go towards medical insurance for citizens who are struggling even with Obamacare.
Perhaps part of the penalty should be fines levied against the countries where the illegal immigrates are from , which can go towards medical insurance for citizens who are struggling even with Obamacare.
7
MDcooks8. The World Bank estimates that $120 Billion dollars a year leaves this country by remittances from 'immigrants'. That would go far to help pay for healthcare
5
Let me ask those who say the illegals do work Americans won't, does that apply to the Dreamers? The ones competing for college placement or jobs with American kids?
Why would we tolerate this? Why do we?
Why would we tolerate this? Why do we?
47
You will never see articles about "Dreamers" who turn out to be MS-13 gang members on Long Island. The narrative is only written one way.
33
We can and should deport the illegals. We can do this humanely and we can help people in need wherever they are in many ways. We cannot be in a position where those who are here illegally and their supporters get to impose a one sided viewpoint where the only thing that is humane is to allow the illegals to stay with all the rights of US Citizens. We can give them assistance so that their return home is humane and gentle.
32
Who's going to finance all of that?
2
YHB. The same people that are financing the: education, health care, criminal justice system etc for illegals and their kids now.
10
The California/Stanford study showed the number of "hit and run" accidents decreased. Once again the NY Times is asking the wrong question and reporting the wrong facts. The real question is did the number of accidents decrease? This is the important question! The bias of the NY Times is in selecting the liberal bias to phrase the questions and issues - not in the facts it reports.
31
I am a democrat who thinks Trump is incompetent but I do agree with his immigration policies. I am tired of the liberal bias in news reporting. It's ridiculous.
6
Every Times article compelling acceptance upon perceived deviants (illegal immigrants, so-called transgendered) nullifies ten pieces detailing sordid Trump-Russia connection thus ensuring Trump reelection.
28
What I'm even more concerned about is BAD DRIVERS who never had a license in their homeland to start with - and drive around to their heart's content. Isn't that the idea of a legal driver's license? To pass tests? Other than that - I agree with the intelligent comments here. Yes, it's hard to be an illegal, and often unfair, too - but so is life for the rest of us - who came here and went through considerable and costly efforts to achieve legal status.
30
One must believe the purpose of requiring a license is to ensure drivers have demonstrated driving skills, understand traffic and safety regulations, can read traffic and highway signs, and are insured. Otherwise, why would your teenage son or daughter require a license and not go directly from their 16th birthday party to the garage? No matter citizenship status, how sad the story, or need to drive, no unlicensed person should drive a vehicle. Oh, and the legal doctrine on ignorance of the law, anyone want to discuss that? Probably not it, doesn't fit the alt-left narrative.
32
Things would be a lot easier for many if they didn't pay taxes. They would be able to afford a nicer home, and probably send their kids to better schools. They might be able to pay for dental treatments that would make their smile nicer and enable them to get better jobs. Maybe they could afford more education, which would enable them to get a better job. Maybe it would mean one parent would not have to work, and would be able to stay home with the kids. Or maybe younger people would be able to help their aging parents more.
There are a ton of socially useful, personally bettering things people could do if they didn't pay their taxes. But it is against the law.
Driving without a license is against the law.
There are a ton of socially useful, personally bettering things people could do if they didn't pay their taxes. But it is against the law.
Driving without a license is against the law.
49
The comments under these and other "hardships of illegal immigrants" articles fascinate me. Generally, the readership of NYT is a tolerant group who wants nobody to suffer. That sympathy dries up for illegal immigrants. Why? Because I'm sure the overwhelming majority of us take great care to follow laws and rules of whatever country we are in. As a traveler in Asia I was scrupulous about it. In London I once found about $250 in GBP lying on the sidewalk and turned it into the police station (which happened to be around the corner, so it made my decision much easier). The police officers told me, when I went to claim it six weeks later, that a lively conversation ensued, when I left, as to whether any of them would have done the same.
Human rights are inviolable for everyone, but driving is a solemn responsibility and a privilege. There's no grey area in my mind here.
Human rights are inviolable for everyone, but driving is a solemn responsibility and a privilege. There's no grey area in my mind here.
50
there are two reasons for the perceived lack of sympathy
1) it's a hot button issue for many conservatives, who have been taught to be triggered by the mere mention of undocumented drivers. Like much fox news propaganda, it's rooted in partial truth - i.e. anecdotal stories like the tragedy outside Rochester as noted in the article. Thus, to them it is a simple problem with simple solutions - fodder for prolific commenting.
2) on the other hand, as with most hard issues, liberals see that the complicated problem has no easy answer. that is not fodder for commenting - little point in muddying the waters by injecting uncertain discourse.
it's the conflict of our times. Anger and indignation are easy, and easily espoused. Actually solving problems is hard, and complicated solutions are hard to convey. Most people choose the easy way out.
1) it's a hot button issue for many conservatives, who have been taught to be triggered by the mere mention of undocumented drivers. Like much fox news propaganda, it's rooted in partial truth - i.e. anecdotal stories like the tragedy outside Rochester as noted in the article. Thus, to them it is a simple problem with simple solutions - fodder for prolific commenting.
2) on the other hand, as with most hard issues, liberals see that the complicated problem has no easy answer. that is not fodder for commenting - little point in muddying the waters by injecting uncertain discourse.
it's the conflict of our times. Anger and indignation are easy, and easily espoused. Actually solving problems is hard, and complicated solutions are hard to convey. Most people choose the easy way out.
2
As an immigrant myself who waited for 10 years to come to this great country, and I am very progressive, I have great sympathy for other's American dream, but open border is not a solution.
43
No, its actually against the law Einstein. Period, end of discussion.
10
They'll be able to drive legally back in their own countries - problem solved.
53
How many accommodations are we going to make for people here illegally? Deport.
66
Driving while undocumented means authorized vehicle operator gets ticketed for traffic offense. Illegal aliens operating car without documents should get a double boot: confiscation of car in lieu of fines then deportation. Caught reentering U.S.? Felony, substantial prison term, internment.
37
Apparently, if you come here illegally, it doesn't matter what other laws you break. Breaking laws becomes the norm. The New York Times is back on its elitist victim propaganda agenda. The Times seems to think that they have the corner on truth and has learned nothing from the Trump election. Sad that this is a major source of news for so many.
56
Unfortunately you can't choose which laws you wish to abide by and those you wantonly wish to break. Doesn't work that way. They broke laws to enter into this country in the first place. Many are uneducated, have many children and no skills. So we get to take care of them for life. Sorry we are busting at the seams and enough is enough. Deportation is a must.
31
As Camille Paglia would say "Elitist, snobbish, top down..." Too many suffering American citizens are tired of picking up the tab for the social costs of cheap labor used by American companies.
25
Arrest and deport illegals. If they have children they can take them with them as would any other responsible adult.
50
Thanks, New York Times, for sticking to your guns and avoiding the term 'Illegal Immigrants.' 'Undocumented' is so much more progressive, and makes it sound more like some pesky piece of paper was misfiled rather than that laws were broken.
But for consistency's sake, please start calling bank robbers 'Undocumented Cash Withdrawers.' And rapists should be called 'Undocumented Sexual Partners.' If the language is going to be abused for purposes of political correctness, then go all the way.
But for consistency's sake, please start calling bank robbers 'Undocumented Cash Withdrawers.' And rapists should be called 'Undocumented Sexual Partners.' If the language is going to be abused for purposes of political correctness, then go all the way.
69
Exactly! And let's not forget to refer to all drug dealers from now on as Undocumented pharmacists.
31
The NY Times is sliding in quality...badly. So,very badly.
25
Hands down the best comment of all-time!!!!
7
And please, stop these grotesquely biased articles. This is supposed to be the New York Times, not a liberal version of Fox News. I should not be able to guess the political opinion of Liz Robbins or anyone else who writes a straight news article. That means telling both sides of a story, rather than portraying one side while violins play in the background. Oh, yeah, and holding a cute little kid in the photo. Come on.
82
On their way to church....
21
That ship left port in the early 1990's concerning the ideology of the NYT, which they are sailing in circles now since they only have their compass bearing left towards California
4
Five kids. Two not in car seats. Any American who did that would be in serious trouble.
5
"When a Broken Headlight Leads to Deportation"
How about, when being here illegally leads to deportation? Why does the NYT insist that illegal immigrants must commit additional offenses before being eligible for deportation? Why even have immigrant laws at all if they aren't enforced?
How about, when being here illegally leads to deportation? Why does the NYT insist that illegal immigrants must commit additional offenses before being eligible for deportation? Why even have immigrant laws at all if they aren't enforced?
73
If a legal US citizen were caught driving without a license, an expired or revoked license they would get a ticket and most likely a court date. Why should those who are here illegally be given a pass? They broke the law by being here illegally in the first place---and to continue to break it by driving without a license, an expired or revoked license and no insurance. Why should they be given a break that a legal citizen wouldn't get? Not on my watch. Deport them.
47
Anyone who would like to know how many of the undocumented are managing to get cash from the I.R.S. (even though virtually none of them pay any income tax), please go to youtube and watch the video titled "Part one: 13 Investigates IRS tax loophole”.
An eyewitness news team explains how undocumented workers were able to receive $4.2 billion from the I.R.S. in 2010. This ruse continues to this day, only the amount of taxpayer money the I.R.S. is now paying to the undocumented is likely much higher.
An eyewitness news team explains how undocumented workers were able to receive $4.2 billion from the I.R.S. in 2010. This ruse continues to this day, only the amount of taxpayer money the I.R.S. is now paying to the undocumented is likely much higher.
37
In my small, CT hometown, ICE is getting ready to deport a Guatemalan woman who has been here 24 years, has 4 children including one who is disabled, and who has worked hard all of her years here with not a single violation, traffic or otherwise. Seems inhumane beyond measure. She fled the violence of her home country and does not dare take her kids back to a violent place.
Let's adopt Obama's approach to illegal immigrants and put families before felons.
Let's adopt Obama's approach to illegal immigrants and put families before felons.
4
What was she doing for 24 years that she couldn't file for citizenship--at least make an attempt to do so? There are plenty of US citizens who are law abiding and who also have disabled children they're trying to care for--and some of those have fled violent domestic situations as well. Where's all the sympathy for the legal citizens with families who are sick and/or in need
10
If the US freely admits everyone in the world who comes from a violent place, we are going to admit millions more people. There are many violent places in the world. Do we want to admit everyone from all of them?
18
We have lawlessness and violence in Chicago on a daily basis perhaps they should move to Guatemala for safety. Sorry they broke the law, deport them. And after 24 years why didn't she ever apply for citizenship?
17
This demonstrates, once again, how other people need to 'support' the illegal immigration burden. How? If a person who is here illegally, who is driving without a license, who probably doesn't know English gets in an accident with me, MY insurance will pay the damages and MY insurance will go up and the illegal will STILL continue to drive around illegally. One can only wonder if the illegal immigrants who are driving without a license have a hand in the uptick of hit and run incidents.
34
I wonder how much more spinning nyt needs to go through before the editors realize illegal immigration is despised by most Americans - not the far right, not the lunatic fringe but decent, hard working, everyday Americans.
Everyone has a heart. We all agree that conditions are deplorable(for a lack of better term; not intended to be a dig against nyt or hillary clinton) in countries from where people are pouring into the United States. We all agree that people whose entire lives have been spent in the service sectors in the United States without any legal status have to be somehow recognized. But granting blanket immunity to all illegal immigrants is not the way to do it. Providing driving licenses to "illegal" immigrants (not non-citizens) is just the first step toward that goal.
Everyone has a heart. We all agree that conditions are deplorable(for a lack of better term; not intended to be a dig against nyt or hillary clinton) in countries from where people are pouring into the United States. We all agree that people whose entire lives have been spent in the service sectors in the United States without any legal status have to be somehow recognized. But granting blanket immunity to all illegal immigrants is not the way to do it. Providing driving licenses to "illegal" immigrants (not non-citizens) is just the first step toward that goal.
38
Anyone can drive on our roads as long as they are following the law. I drive in Mexico a couple times a month and I carry Mexican insurance and comply with their laws. Especially since Mexico just significantly increased the liability of at-fault drivers and the penalty (immediate jail) for lack of insurance.
As for unlicenced or uninsured drivers? With my kids out there? Toss the book at them. Inclusive of deportation if warranted.
As for unlicenced or uninsured drivers? With my kids out there? Toss the book at them. Inclusive of deportation if warranted.
36
Just another Trumped-up reason to kick out valuable people who want to contribute to our society. (Pun intended.) This reminds of how slave owners would withhold food from their slaves, then catch them "stealing from the smokehouse" so their families could eat. Making someone wrong as a way of perpetuating oppression. First we don't allow people to have a license they need to function effectively in society, then we bust them for the same thing.
BTW RickNYC, driving without a license is nothing like "waving a gun around a room." Even the safest undocumented driver in the US could be in that position. It's more like having your auto registration expire because you forgot to remew, except you don't have the option of renewing.
BTW RickNYC, driving without a license is nothing like "waving a gun around a room." Even the safest undocumented driver in the US could be in that position. It's more like having your auto registration expire because you forgot to remew, except you don't have the option of renewing.
71% of Illegal Alien Families receive one form of welfare how is that valuable to the U.S when they cost the U.S over $100 Billion a year after all taxes they pay. Illegal Aliens over crowd schools, bankrupt hospitals, lower wages and taking jobs from Blue collar workers/
Breaking into someone's home doesnt make you a guest and it doesnt mean you can stay or provide any value to the homeowner and that is the same with illegal aliens.
They need to go home since they can not follow U.S laws that put more Citizens in danger
Breaking into someone's home doesnt make you a guest and it doesnt mean you can stay or provide any value to the homeowner and that is the same with illegal aliens.
They need to go home since they can not follow U.S laws that put more Citizens in danger
23
Oh, great, so now illegals should be allowed to drive without a license -- a crime that would get any of us arrested?
These law breakers are endangering everyone by driving without a license. Just one of many reasons to catch them and send them home.
These law breakers are endangering everyone by driving without a license. Just one of many reasons to catch them and send them home.
40
If you knowingly broke federal law, and then continued doing so around the clock every day thereafter, you presumably are assuming the risk that you might get busted eventually. And logically, you realize that if you violate other laws or norms or otherwise call attention to yourself, you are more likely to be caught. While I feel sad for the families these folks foolishly build in the U.S. while here illegally (as the kids have no say in their parents' actions), you shouldn't get a bigger pass the longer and worse you break the law.
32
It's sad but the laws must be enforced. I spent many years living in Los Angeles and the number of hit and run accidents multiplied like crazy over the years, which was attributed to illegal immigrant drivers fleeing the scene of an accident, breaking yet another law in the process.
22
Millions of Americans are unemployed or are being paid less than their work is worth. We all help support them and their families. More of them would find work and would be earning higher wages, if they would not have to compete with illegal immigrants.
Proponents of illegal immigrants say they do the work that Americans don’t want, and that they keep prices down. They ignore the fact that society is subsidizing illegal immigrants and their families in myriad ways beyond free education such as free pre-school and after school programs, free bus passes, subsidies for heating bills, cash from the I.R.S. under the Additional Child Tax Credit law (which is free money, not a refund for income taxes), free emergency room health care, free or reduced cost care at public health clinics, and free long term hospital care.
According to the PEW Research Center, only 5% of illegal immigrants work in agriculture. If there are not enough Americans who want these jobs, they could be filled with temporary workers who come without their families.
The other 95% of jobs now held by illegal immigrants could be filled by Americans. Yes, many employers would have to raise wages, but then the public would not have to pick up so much of the other costs we now have for unemployed Americans and their families along with all of the subsidies we are providing to illegal immigrants and their families.
Proponents of illegal immigrants say they do the work that Americans don’t want, and that they keep prices down. They ignore the fact that society is subsidizing illegal immigrants and their families in myriad ways beyond free education such as free pre-school and after school programs, free bus passes, subsidies for heating bills, cash from the I.R.S. under the Additional Child Tax Credit law (which is free money, not a refund for income taxes), free emergency room health care, free or reduced cost care at public health clinics, and free long term hospital care.
According to the PEW Research Center, only 5% of illegal immigrants work in agriculture. If there are not enough Americans who want these jobs, they could be filled with temporary workers who come without their families.
The other 95% of jobs now held by illegal immigrants could be filled by Americans. Yes, many employers would have to raise wages, but then the public would not have to pick up so much of the other costs we now have for unemployed Americans and their families along with all of the subsidies we are providing to illegal immigrants and their families.
60
Many of these undocumented immigrants didn't enter the county illegally. They entered the country on work and student visas, enticed by companies, employers, and colleges who promised them that their hard work would be rewarded with an honest path toward citizenship. 9 times out of 10, these people fulfilled their end of the bargain, but when the time came for their American employers and sponsors to honor their own pledges, they reneged on their promises. Their internships would end without full employment, their college educations would end without jobs, their time in fields and factories would be rewarded by sudden downsizing, often right at the very time that their visas were up for renewal. Without work, those visas expire. They were cheated, plain and simple, and now you would rub salt in the wound by having them sent back, even though many have already built lives and put down roots here, because you can't stand the thought of even the smallest bit of aid going their way? Where is your honor, sir? Where is your Christian sense of charity? I would rather have my tax dollars go towards helping these newcomers than being spent on more bombs and more tax breaks for the rich.
2
Non-immigrant visas (including student visas and short-term work visas) are very explicitly time-limited, with no guaranteed "honest path toward citizenship". The State Department will not issue them if there is evidence that the recipient does not intent to return to an unrelinquished domicile abroad after the term of the visa.
10
That's not how it works. Once in the States and under the right circumstances, you can apply for a longer-term visa. That's what many of these immigrants (and you better start calling them that) were told when they first applied.
1
Yes, we should arrest and deport illegal immigrants, and especially if they are driving without insurance or a license. The alternative, to look the other way and allow them to continue driving illegally is just crazy. The idea of allowing illegal immigrants to get driver's licenses is equally insane - to help them be able to drive and to board aircraft while here illegally might be a very low risk to citizens for a Guatemalan dairy farm worker, but for recently arrived single male unemployed Yemenis it could be more problematic. yes, comprehensive immigration reform providing documentation for temporary workers with a clear, rational path to permanent residency and citizenship would be best, and the lack of such a program combined with lax border controls is a cause of much current illegal residencies, but until that is fixed, we should be able to enforce the law with a clear conscience.
40
Why is that every time I read about illegal immigrants, most of the time they have 4 or 5 kids, I bet they don't have a high paying jobs, and why reproduce so many?...I am in the top 2% of the income bracket and I can barely afford my two...
77
How many children they have is nobody's business but theirs. The problem is their legal status in this country and that should be the focus of discussion.
2
Cuts to planned parenthood/religion.
1
The more kids the more subsidies they can receive from the state coffers.
10
I am getting really tired of bending the rules to accommodate immigrants. If I drove around without a license and no insurance, I am quite sure there would be no mercy shown to me. Immigrants who live upstate (Hudson Valley) do not care and will snub you with their 'protected' status. Meanwhile, we pay for everything for them. If you are here for 11 years, or for any amount of time, you work here and enjoy the benefits of this land and country, there is no excuse that you can tell me that will make me have any sympathy for you. You should have learned the language and obtained legal status as soon as possible. It is disgusting, self fish, outrageous and reckless to get in a car without a license and insurance and endanger other people. In my opinion, show them the door and get out.
55
These are not immigrants, they crossed our border or flew in and overstayed their welcome. They are still citizens of their birth as well as their 5 children. When oh when will the left and our lowly pols realize this?
11
Illegals in California with Driver;s License didnt bother to get Insurance but they probably voted.
They should not be in the U.S ILLEGALLY to drive nor steal IDs and SSN. They didn't bother to follow the law to get to the U.S and they will not bother to follow any laws or customs once here.
Enforce the Immigration laws and deport. There better way of life shouldn't cost U.S Citizens their lives and $100 Billon a year
They should not be in the U.S ILLEGALLY to drive nor steal IDs and SSN. They didn't bother to follow the law to get to the U.S and they will not bother to follow any laws or customs once here.
Enforce the Immigration laws and deport. There better way of life shouldn't cost U.S Citizens their lives and $100 Billon a year
39
I disagree with your statement "they probably voted." Where are the facts to back that up? Actually, illegal immigrants do not vote. They lay low. This whole story about voter fraud by illegal aliens is just a GOP meme to spread fear among their already fearful followers. It's been shown time and again that voter fraud, the little there is, has been committed by overzealous GOP'ers. Ironic but true.
2
5.7 Million Non Citizens Voted in 2008 amd 7.9 Non Citizens Registered to Vote Stop watching FakeNews CNN
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/jun/19/noncitizen-illegal-vote-...
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/jun/19/noncitizen-illegal-vote-...
3
I am sympathetic to people seeking to immigrate and build a life for themselves. I was lucky to be born into an educated, middle-class, American family. I believe we should make it easier for people with drive and good intentions, versus simply the very rich, to immigrate legally. However, there's a point at which my sympathy ends. If you came here illegally or overstayed your visa, you were fully aware of the risks. You knew you could be deported. You knew you would be in the shadows and not be able to drive legally. Why should you be given a state issued ID? Why should we continue to let people who are here illegally build up equities in the U.S.? That only makes it appear more cruel when they are finally deported.
129
After 11 million have been allowed to enter the country and stay, what is the deterrence? The fault lies with several gutless administrations that were unable to face and deal with the problem as it was happening.
10
Unwilling, not unable. It was a choice.
10
Question: Should these "minor violations" be ignored for every driver, or just for illegal immigrants? If so, then why have them on the books at all?
Plus, these people are terrible drivers. I think we all know that. And it just makes no sense at all to be handing drivers' licenses to people who should not be here in the first place! Driving is a privilege, not a right FOR CITIZENS, so certainly not a right for interlopers.
Are we going to say, you have no right to live and work in our country but here are all the same perks that actual citizens enjoy?
"We are not here to harm anybody?" But you do. Mr. Bartolucci is a lot more forgiving than I would be!
Anne Doebler seems to think that if illegal immigrants are given licenses, they will also purchase insurance. That's a stretch! Do insurers even insure the cars of illegal immigrants??? Please investigate!
And a "nonpartisan think tank" is trying to temp legislators and the public with estimates of the heaps of doubloons we would take in in "taxes and fees." I laugh!
At least this article is somewhat balanced.
Plus, these people are terrible drivers. I think we all know that. And it just makes no sense at all to be handing drivers' licenses to people who should not be here in the first place! Driving is a privilege, not a right FOR CITIZENS, so certainly not a right for interlopers.
Are we going to say, you have no right to live and work in our country but here are all the same perks that actual citizens enjoy?
"We are not here to harm anybody?" But you do. Mr. Bartolucci is a lot more forgiving than I would be!
Anne Doebler seems to think that if illegal immigrants are given licenses, they will also purchase insurance. That's a stretch! Do insurers even insure the cars of illegal immigrants??? Please investigate!
And a "nonpartisan think tank" is trying to temp legislators and the public with estimates of the heaps of doubloons we would take in in "taxes and fees." I laugh!
At least this article is somewhat balanced.
36
this is half the story. now i'm waiting for your story about american citizens hurt in collisions with these illegal immigrants who are driving illegally without a license or insurance to compensate their victims. i'm sure i'll be waiting a long time.
60
Can't tell you how many of these sob stories have appeared within the last month with not one article devoted to the subject of which you speak. In this article they afforded the father of one such victim two sentences. You have a better chance at winning Powerball than an article appearing here.
12
It's all in how you spin it, really.
The mother breast-feeding in the back seast should not be deported. No...
But the American mother who takes her child out of the mandated child safety seat, that we have all been educated and assimilated to accept (they loan them out free) to protect our American babies lives for whatever reason, will face serious issues if the car is hit and the baby is ejected. As will the American citizen driver who might have had a fender-bender had the child been strapped in.
There is a reason we vaccinate our children. There is a reason we mandate, and verify, driver's licences, citizenship papers, employment documents, and Rule of Law for all people living here.
Unless we want to continue to create Two Americas, we should not permit some of the states to issue drivers licences that will seem valid in other states where illegal immigrants are not needed for exploitative labor practices. We encourage people to immigrate legally, as they and their children will be safer not being underground and being able to assimilate as so many legal Americans have done already.
The mother breast-feeding in the back seast should not be deported. No...
But the American mother who takes her child out of the mandated child safety seat, that we have all been educated and assimilated to accept (they loan them out free) to protect our American babies lives for whatever reason, will face serious issues if the car is hit and the baby is ejected. As will the American citizen driver who might have had a fender-bender had the child been strapped in.
There is a reason we vaccinate our children. There is a reason we mandate, and verify, driver's licences, citizenship papers, employment documents, and Rule of Law for all people living here.
Unless we want to continue to create Two Americas, we should not permit some of the states to issue drivers licences that will seem valid in other states where illegal immigrants are not needed for exploitative labor practices. We encourage people to immigrate legally, as they and their children will be safer not being underground and being able to assimilate as so many legal Americans have done already.
30
CT giving drivers licenses to illegal immigrants now means that citizens need a 'verified ' license at an extra cost naturally that must be obtained at the DMV vs. the easier and cheaper AAA.
Because heaven forbid we don't expend more of our own money and tolerate increased crowding and inconvenience to support those here illegally. That would be 'mean' and 'xenophobic'.
Because heaven forbid we don't expend more of our own money and tolerate increased crowding and inconvenience to support those here illegally. That would be 'mean' and 'xenophobic'.
36
This is crazy, take public transportation or bike to work if you don't have license, it doesn't get any simpler than that; illegal or undocumented workers or not.
36
FYI -- to those who insist on using the term "illegal alien" instead of "undocumented ". There are 2 ways you can be without legal papers in the US (i.e., undocumented). First, you sneak across the border, formally known as "enter without inspection (EWI)". This is the alien you're picturing, and yes, it's a crime to enter the country without inspection by a CBP agent. The second way you can be undocumented is if your visa has expired and you remain in the country. This is a civil infraction, not a criminal offense. I think there are more people in this second category than in the first category (and sometimes they do get a SSN when they have temporary work authorization). People can live here under the radar for years, then marry a US citizen, get paperwork done to avoid penalties for overstaying the visa, and eventually get on a path to citizenship.
But whether you're in the first category or the second, you are undocumented and you can't legally work. In NC you would not be able to get a drivers license if you lacked documentation (the license for someone on a student, for example, expires when the visa expires). And if you use someone else's SSN to get a job, then yes, you've committed a crime.
But whether you're in the first category or the second, you are undocumented and you can't legally work. In NC you would not be able to get a drivers license if you lacked documentation (the license for someone on a student, for example, expires when the visa expires). And if you use someone else's SSN to get a job, then yes, you've committed a crime.
16
It's illegal to drive 75 on the interstate, although the state may call it a civil infraction. It's illegal to smoke weed in certain states, although the result may be a civil infraction and a fine (I support full legalization). Thus, civil or criminal, it still falls under the broad category "illegal". Thus, "illegal alien".
9
I'm generally sympathetic to the situation of immigrants, but this article -- and the cases discussed -- really suggests a problem.
Someone enters the country illegally and stays, then drives a car without a license, and then proceeds to speed while driving? That's a lot of "mistakes"
Apart from the clear danger to others posed by an unlicensed driver (perhaps not knowing how to drive, which is what a license is meant to certify) who speeds, this really suggests a pattern of disdain for the law. (Sorry, it doesn't matter if they got stopped for speeding going to church -- an obvious journalistic play for sympathy in the very first line of the article -- objectivity?)
I also agree with others about the Doublespeak aspect how the term "undocumented" is used (here and elsewhere in news). "Undocumented" means you lack documents you're entitled to have, or actually do have -- such as a passport-holder who loses a passport, or a US citizen who doesn't have an actual copy of their Birth Certificate.
If you knowingly enter a country (however sympathetic your case), you're doing something "illegal" and your stay in the country is against the law -- thus, "illegal" is the accurate term, according the definition of the words.
Use of the term "undocumented" is an attempt to "spin" the implication of the term -- to make it more sympathetic than "illegal." In terms of the an Orwellian assault on English, this distortion is really akin to Trump's use of the term "alternate facts."
Someone enters the country illegally and stays, then drives a car without a license, and then proceeds to speed while driving? That's a lot of "mistakes"
Apart from the clear danger to others posed by an unlicensed driver (perhaps not knowing how to drive, which is what a license is meant to certify) who speeds, this really suggests a pattern of disdain for the law. (Sorry, it doesn't matter if they got stopped for speeding going to church -- an obvious journalistic play for sympathy in the very first line of the article -- objectivity?)
I also agree with others about the Doublespeak aspect how the term "undocumented" is used (here and elsewhere in news). "Undocumented" means you lack documents you're entitled to have, or actually do have -- such as a passport-holder who loses a passport, or a US citizen who doesn't have an actual copy of their Birth Certificate.
If you knowingly enter a country (however sympathetic your case), you're doing something "illegal" and your stay in the country is against the law -- thus, "illegal" is the accurate term, according the definition of the words.
Use of the term "undocumented" is an attempt to "spin" the implication of the term -- to make it more sympathetic than "illegal." In terms of the an Orwellian assault on English, this distortion is really akin to Trump's use of the term "alternate facts."
48
Trump never said that
4
The journey of illegal immigrants to US starts with a crime . They trample on a sovereign countries immigration laws, get paid under the table, use loopholes to file for taxes to get child tax credits, get taxpayer funded food stamps illegally, drive without a licence illegally, steal social security illegally. Everything they do is illegal and shamelessly criticize GOP and trump for trying to enforce the countries immigration laws. Illegals need to look into the mirror to check their moral compass.
28
Not true. A LOT of undocumented people here entered the country legally, then overstayed their visa. The US does not track individuals once they enter the country -- there's an "honor system" that assumes that the non-US citizen will leave before the visa expired. If someone overstays and then leaves, the penalty is a multi-year bar from re entering the country (e.g., barred for 10 years). But if you just stay and don't attract attention, you can stay indefinitely. Banks will lend you money to buy businesses, houses, etc. There's no "extreme vetting" going on in the US!
I don't think simply overstaying your visa makes you deportable if you haven't committed a crime.
People come here to work. Take away the opportunities to work, by cracking down on employers as Reagan's 1986 immigration reform was supposed to do, and many people will "self-deport" just like Romney famously asserted.
I don't think simply overstaying your visa makes you deportable if you haven't committed a crime.
People come here to work. Take away the opportunities to work, by cracking down on employers as Reagan's 1986 immigration reform was supposed to do, and many people will "self-deport" just like Romney famously asserted.
Visa overstay is a statutory ground for removal (deportation) under the Immigration and Nationality Act, no further criminal acts are required to make someone subject to deportation. There isn't the manpower to check and track down every person who overstays, but they do put some of these folks into removal proceedings. I do agree it is more effective to crack down on the employers rather than the people seeking to work illegally.
11
"I don't think simply overstaying your visa makes you deportable if you haven't committed a crime."
Incorrect.
Incorrect.
9
The penalty for US citizens randomly caught “driving while Black” is death.
For someone who enters the country illegally, violates the law to work, violates the law to operate a vehicle, violates the law to drive drunk, and finally violates the law by taking the life of another human being, the penalty is deportation.
For someone who enters the country illegally, violates the law to work, violates the law to operate a vehicle, violates the law to drive drunk, and finally violates the law by taking the life of another human being, the penalty is deportation.
10
The great African-American congresswoman Barbara Jordan would be appalled at the current state of the Democratic party and their attempts to dilute and weaken the voting power and citizenship rights of all Americans. Heard this recently with respect to the Democrats current stance on immigration and undermining working opportunities for US citizens and was forced to admit there's a grain of truth to it: "If you're white, you're alright; if you're brown, come around; if you're black, go to the back."
4
Dear Democratic Party:
The "rights" of the illegally present is not a hill on which you consider risking your party to conquer. There is nothing to win there, and every other thing that you stand for is at risk because enough people think your position on illegal aliens is unacceptable.
Stop turning people Republican with your position on illegal immigration.
Of Trump has shown anything, illegal immigration has declined by just saying mean things. Saying mean things! That was all it took? Why haven't politicians been saying mean things for the last 30 years?
The "rights" of the illegally present is not a hill on which you consider risking your party to conquer. There is nothing to win there, and every other thing that you stand for is at risk because enough people think your position on illegal aliens is unacceptable.
Stop turning people Republican with your position on illegal immigration.
Of Trump has shown anything, illegal immigration has declined by just saying mean things. Saying mean things! That was all it took? Why haven't politicians been saying mean things for the last 30 years?
43
Too late, the Democratic Party already decided this is the hill they want to die on. I voted Democrat at the Presidential level for 30 years from 1992 through 2012 but this issue and their stance on it in 2016 was too much (not to mention Hillary's Iraq War support and destruction of Libya).
The Democratic Party has made clear they believe in diluting the power and value of US citizenship in order to serve corporate campaign donors & gain more votes. Also, while I couldn't stomach voting for Bush nor McCain nor Romney, many of us observed back in 2007 when there was a chance for real immigration reform that Bush would sign, the Democrats defeated it in order to deny Bush and GOP a "victory" in this area. The bill would have moved us closer to Canadian and Australian style legal immigration & provided badly needed chain migration reform. GOP gets smeared by NYT as supposedly being racist but it was 33 Democrats who defeated this bill, while only 12 GOP voted against. Democrats prefer this as a wedge issue for votes rather than actually doing anything about it.
The Democratic Party has made clear they believe in diluting the power and value of US citizenship in order to serve corporate campaign donors & gain more votes. Also, while I couldn't stomach voting for Bush nor McCain nor Romney, many of us observed back in 2007 when there was a chance for real immigration reform that Bush would sign, the Democrats defeated it in order to deny Bush and GOP a "victory" in this area. The bill would have moved us closer to Canadian and Australian style legal immigration & provided badly needed chain migration reform. GOP gets smeared by NYT as supposedly being racist but it was 33 Democrats who defeated this bill, while only 12 GOP voted against. Democrats prefer this as a wedge issue for votes rather than actually doing anything about it.
5
Is it possible that between 15 and 18 % of car drivers are not insured in the United States ? It would appear that the problem is not only confined to the undocumented but is also there among the documented. Perhaps a 5c increase per gallon on gas prices into a fund might pay for damages caused by non insurance.
2
If an uninsured "documented" person causes a problem, you can at least track him down. Why should the law abiding citizens get penalized for paying their insurance and the additional tax?
12
File a lawsuit against the state where the driving infraction took place for not enforcing federal laws on immigration,which ineffective is not protecting citizens.
When a state such as California gives out licenses not only for driving but professional licenses to go into business, lawsuits that will cost the state resources may be the only measure to take for them to enforce illegal immigration laws.
When a state such as California gives out licenses not only for driving but professional licenses to go into business, lawsuits that will cost the state resources may be the only measure to take for them to enforce illegal immigration laws.
10
If illegal immigrants do not have to pay for car insurance or health insurance, why should citizens? Some states require Uninsured/Underinsured motorist coverage, so if an Uninsured/Underinsured vehicle hits you, your own policy pays out.
The Rule of Law dissipates if some people have to have licenses, insure their cars, pay for their hospital bills, etc. and others are permitted to take the risk and pay the consequences. American citizens should be allowed to opt out too, or we should enforce the laws regardless of race or national origin. That's the law, in fact.
The Rule of Law dissipates if some people have to have licenses, insure their cars, pay for their hospital bills, etc. and others are permitted to take the risk and pay the consequences. American citizens should be allowed to opt out too, or we should enforce the laws regardless of race or national origin. That's the law, in fact.
6
The argument for safety is partially rebutted by the subject's own admission: "I have to be (drive) perfect(ly).".... When the consequences are even greater than a traffic ticket the driver has to be really careful to follow traffic laws. This for some would lead to safer driving. .... As for the habitual drunk drivers....catching them once then deporting would solve the problem....IF THERE WAS A 'WALL' (an effective border control system).
13
Before we had mandatory car insurance, I noticed the less weatlhy kids always drove better, understanding there was no free "replacement" car coming from insurance funds. Boy did the rich kids, who knew they had insurance, smash up their first few cars... (and themselves!)
You take better care of something if you don't think it is disposable. Whether that's a marriage, a car, an electronic device, or loyalty to a home country. I liked when new citizens took the oath to this country and foreswore their loyalty to other lands.
You take better care of something if you don't think it is disposable. Whether that's a marriage, a car, an electronic device, or loyalty to a home country. I liked when new citizens took the oath to this country and foreswore their loyalty to other lands.
5
Taxes and fees could assist the annual economy in counties and the state by $57 million, the report showed....."
EVERYTHING is a business decision. That is what has kept donald in the white house. It is OK that we have two sets of laws for those who want to obey them and for those that wish to ignore them. We have become an nn anti-law nation and that will eventually come back to bite us on the tail.
My wife nearly died after being struck by an undocumented, unlicensed, UNINSURED, driver. so I have absolutely NO sympathy. I'll leave it at that.
EVERYTHING is a business decision. That is what has kept donald in the white house. It is OK that we have two sets of laws for those who want to obey them and for those that wish to ignore them. We have become an nn anti-law nation and that will eventually come back to bite us on the tail.
My wife nearly died after being struck by an undocumented, unlicensed, UNINSURED, driver. so I have absolutely NO sympathy. I'll leave it at that.
24
What is the difference between being struck by an undocumented, unlicensed, UNINSURED driver, and being struck by a native-born citizen, unlicensed, UNINSURED, driver?
Both individuals are violating state laws independent of their immigration status.
I have NO sympathy for BOTH OF THEM.
Both individuals are violating state laws independent of their immigration status.
I have NO sympathy for BOTH OF THEM.
5
You can possibly file a lawsuit against the US citizen that does not have the necessary documentation to legally drive and try to obtain a lean against their wages.
But against an " illegal / undocumented " person the are very few remedies if any at all to seek compensation.
That is the difference.
But against an " illegal / undocumented " person the are very few remedies if any at all to seek compensation.
That is the difference.
10
People who enter this country illegally are not "undocumented" immigrants. They are illegal immigrants. The Times, which likes to think of itself as the "paper of record" needs to stop practicing Orwellian doublespeak.
The people who are found to be here illegally are not being given jail terms, they are being sent back to their home countries. In most cases, this is how it should be.
There are many, many people in the world who live in places in which economic and social circumstances are much worse than in the United States. We are a rich country (though there are all too many legal residents who do not share the wealth her, but that is another story); we should allow as many as practical to immigrate here. But this should be via a legislated program of legal immigration, not by rewarding those who illegally cut the line.
Also, it is very unlikely that illegal immigrants who are given drivers licenses will get insurance. Insurance is expensive, and most insurance companies will probably, and understandably, not wish to sell policies to illegal immigrants.
Unfortunately, the most telling anecdote here is the illegal immigrant who repeatedly drove while drunk, and killed the poor 4 year old girl.
So....charity, yes. Legal immigration, yes. Encouraging illegal immigration, no.
The people who are found to be here illegally are not being given jail terms, they are being sent back to their home countries. In most cases, this is how it should be.
There are many, many people in the world who live in places in which economic and social circumstances are much worse than in the United States. We are a rich country (though there are all too many legal residents who do not share the wealth her, but that is another story); we should allow as many as practical to immigrate here. But this should be via a legislated program of legal immigration, not by rewarding those who illegally cut the line.
Also, it is very unlikely that illegal immigrants who are given drivers licenses will get insurance. Insurance is expensive, and most insurance companies will probably, and understandably, not wish to sell policies to illegal immigrants.
Unfortunately, the most telling anecdote here is the illegal immigrant who repeatedly drove while drunk, and killed the poor 4 year old girl.
So....charity, yes. Legal immigration, yes. Encouraging illegal immigration, no.
59
"We're not hurting anyone." Bank robbers don't hurt anyone either, so should that be legal too? Actually, they do harm Americans by lowering wages when they compete for the same kind of low-wage, low-skill jobs, though no economist will admit it. They compete for other limited resources as well, like space in public schools, public health clinics, etc.
82
I used to be proud of living in a country where they concept of "show us your papers" was not implemented. Oh well.
4
Good, then dont be proud. Laws are laws.
20
so if someone went to the bank, passed off a check forged with your name and the teller didn't check because we are nation that doesn't honor "show me your papers" you would be OK with that as they cleaned out your account?
24
...and?
6
Yes, Alberto, you do have to be perfect. You are here illegally.
40
Twice I had illegal aliens hit my car while driving. Neither had any insurance let alone a drivers license. One ran from his car never to be found again. "Driving while undocumented" - US citizens face the risks and forget them. I'm also getting tired of calling illegals "undocumented" as if they left their paperwork back home. They are illegal.
125
I don't have much empathy for people who drive without a license. A car has the capacity to commit grievous harm to others and no license means no insurance on the car. The NY, Penn, and Ohio communities all have amish or mennonite people who do not drive and they find a way to get around. All communities have people in them that do not or should not drive. You don't have to drive. They just choose to drive illegally putting others at risk.
61
First of all these people should not even be in the country. They are here illegally. It is the right thing to arrest them and send them back to their home country.
Obama turned a blind eye to the problem by only arresting and deporting those with felonies and/of convicted of a serious crime. He ignored the rest of the illegal population. So of course we got more illegal aliens who knew they would not be deported.
Now with Trump as President Illegal aliens are being picked up wherever they are found. Whether they have a serious conviction or not they will be picked up and deported. It will take a while to get rid of 11 million. But at least Trump is working on it which is more than could be said for Obama
We need to arrest and deport any person here illegally. If we don't then our laws mean nothing.
Obama turned a blind eye to the problem by only arresting and deporting those with felonies and/of convicted of a serious crime. He ignored the rest of the illegal population. So of course we got more illegal aliens who knew they would not be deported.
Now with Trump as President Illegal aliens are being picked up wherever they are found. Whether they have a serious conviction or not they will be picked up and deported. It will take a while to get rid of 11 million. But at least Trump is working on it which is more than could be said for Obama
We need to arrest and deport any person here illegally. If we don't then our laws mean nothing.
51
We need to arrest and deport any person here illegally. If we don't then our laws mean nothing."
..........
That is the IRONY with trump is that HE breaks the laws we have concerning public office holders but holds everyone else to a different standard.
..........
That is the IRONY with trump is that HE breaks the laws we have concerning public office holders but holds everyone else to a different standard.
2
This is a happy story in part. The two Guatemalan economic terrorists--the real term for illegal immigrants or the undocumented--have now been detained and are facing deportation. Thanks to Trump's new priorities, perhaps they will be deported, as they should. Hopefully, ALL other illegal immigrants who are breaking our laws by being here, and breaking other laws by driving without a license--a privilege, not a right--will be discovered and deported.
37
Auto insurance is expensive, especially for illegal aliens.
I propose we raise taxes on "millionaires and billionaires" in order for illegal aliens to obtain free drivers licenses and auto insurance. Once this is accomplished, I propose we provide free autos for the little darlings so they can get to work.
I propose we raise taxes on "millionaires and billionaires" in order for illegal aliens to obtain free drivers licenses and auto insurance. Once this is accomplished, I propose we provide free autos for the little darlings so they can get to work.
29
We need comprehensive immigration reform. Period. The current broken system is harming everyone. In NC undocumented immigrants cannot get drivers licenses, so they have to get their cars registered in someone else's name and they probably don't maintain insurance (not sure that insurance would cover an unlicensed driver anyway). Which means that my insurance rates are slightly higher to help cover the costs of uninsured drivers. But the undocumented immigrants aren't going to leave -- they're working, have kids in school, etc.
There would be a dramatic change if the undocumented immigrants couldn't work here so easily. Did you know that the e-verify program is voluntary? Making it mandatory would probably uncover identity fraud and make it much more difficult for undocumented workers to get jobs. So would enforcing penalties against employers who hire people without work authorization (which would include people who entered the country legally but overstated their visas and those who never even had work authorization -- such as students, visitors, etc). But here even some die-hard Trump supporters don't want to change the system because it might hurt their own businesses. Look at the recent Trump plan to bring in more foreign workers to do jobs Americans supposedly don't want -- it's like the Cuban-Americans who want strict sanctions against Cuba but exceptions for their own family members in Cuba!
Let the Trumpistas have their way. Watch them reap what they sowed.
There would be a dramatic change if the undocumented immigrants couldn't work here so easily. Did you know that the e-verify program is voluntary? Making it mandatory would probably uncover identity fraud and make it much more difficult for undocumented workers to get jobs. So would enforcing penalties against employers who hire people without work authorization (which would include people who entered the country legally but overstated their visas and those who never even had work authorization -- such as students, visitors, etc). But here even some die-hard Trump supporters don't want to change the system because it might hurt their own businesses. Look at the recent Trump plan to bring in more foreign workers to do jobs Americans supposedly don't want -- it's like the Cuban-Americans who want strict sanctions against Cuba but exceptions for their own family members in Cuba!
Let the Trumpistas have their way. Watch them reap what they sowed.
3
Trumpistas? How mature.
9
But here even some die-hard Trump supporters don't want to change the system because it might hurt their own businesses."
EVERYTHING is a business decision. EVERYTHING.
EVERYTHING is a business decision. EVERYTHING.
2
Where is the article covering the extensive damages and financial difficulties faced by the people who have been subject to a hit and run by someone who has no insurance, no drivers license and no clear understanding of US driving laws? It's a sadly common occurrence here in Texas.
110
If I am injured, disabled or killed, can my family sue the corporations who employ illegal workers?
Why not?
They know their workers are illegal. They pay them cash under the table, they don't pay withholding tax. If they pay them on the books, that means an illegal SS number is being used and that's easy enough for an employer to check.
If you go after the employers, then unlicensed illegal immigrants driving children around without car seats will no longer be a problem and everyone will be safer. Don't we want everyone to be safe? If a "businessman" can't figure out how to pay a legal worker a decent, livable wage, then who cares if he goes under? He wasn't much of a businessman, was he?
Why not?
They know their workers are illegal. They pay them cash under the table, they don't pay withholding tax. If they pay them on the books, that means an illegal SS number is being used and that's easy enough for an employer to check.
If you go after the employers, then unlicensed illegal immigrants driving children around without car seats will no longer be a problem and everyone will be safer. Don't we want everyone to be safe? If a "businessman" can't figure out how to pay a legal worker a decent, livable wage, then who cares if he goes under? He wasn't much of a businessman, was he?
40
Gee another tear jerker article about the plight of lawbreakers. Shocking. A close friend of mine lost a son to an undocumented, unlicensed, un-insured ILLEGAL ALIEN. I have not one iota of sympathy for the plight of those who break the law to get here. I shed not a tear for them or their children. They don't belong here they broke our laws to get here. Send them back.
87
What is never mentioned by the proponents of illegal immigration is that the illegal aliens who violate laws in the United States should have never been here in the first place. When the illegal alien violates a law, even a summary offense like traffic laws, they should be detained and deported. There is absolutely no excuse for someone to enter the United States without reporting to Immigration and Customs Enforcement, or to overstay a visa and not leave the United States when required.
There are no set of circumstances or "sob stories" that justify illegal aliens in the United States.
There are no set of circumstances or "sob stories" that justify illegal aliens in the United States.
63
If you don't have a drivers license why speed? And why don't you put your kids in seat belts? Why do you drink and drive? Not very smart.
48
Yea but don't US citizens already do that as well???
1
False narrative. Sorry.
4
Please, NY Times, whenever an article highlighting the plight of illegal immigrants in the US is published, publish a parallel account of what happens to US citizens who break the immigration laws of any other country. It's a pretty short article, so it shouldn't take up too much space: "Fined, deported, barred from re-entry." Feel free to use that whenever you like.
158
That is a great idea. I would suggest the NYT's have a reporter travel to Switzerland on vacation and see what happens when they try to apply for a job or get medical care.
35
In Switzerland, without papers - you cannot do anything. Anything at all. And you'd get no sympathy from the Swiss whatsoever.
19
Did you read the section on the passenger killed?
2
Some of the biggest and dirtiest food suppliers in the country have illegal immigrants working for them. Why not start on the factory floors of all these companies...Tyson, Smithfield, Cargill, etc...before you start deporting mothers and fathers who are trying to make a living for their legal families.
5
Because Americans love them some bacon.
These companies cannot find Americans for $8 / hour to slaughter a 700-lb hog every 20 seconds on the assembly line.
If you want to pay $10 for bacon, deport the illegal immigrants.
These companies cannot find Americans for $8 / hour to slaughter a 700-lb hog every 20 seconds on the assembly line.
If you want to pay $10 for bacon, deport the illegal immigrants.
4
Love them some bacon? The snark and immaturity of the left sinks below that of the right. Now that is an achievement.
10
Wages aren't that big a proportion of the cost of production in these businesses.
4
How is driving a child without a car seat a minor offense?
54
Does the NYT's have a recurring item setup on their calendar to publish an article about the plight of people in our country illegally. These people are not undocumented, they are here illegally.
The majority of Americans believe in enforcing our immigration laws. That the NYT's continues to publish article after article about people here illegally shows how out of touch they are.
The majority of Americans believe in enforcing our immigration laws. That the NYT's continues to publish article after article about people here illegally shows how out of touch they are.
128
No license no insurance coverage.
What about the damage that this unlicensed and undocumented driver might cause to someone else.
Who pays?
Who gets sued?
No license, no insurance and probably no money.
What about the damage that this unlicensed and undocumented driver might cause to someone else.
Who pays?
Who gets sued?
No license, no insurance and probably no money.
47
The NYT is officially bananas. Its articles and ideas like this that lead to Trump being elected, and will likely lead to his reelection. The fact that the NYT and supporters of illegal immigration are blind to this is scary.
122
It's flouting the law, not flaunting the law...
28
Remember they fired a bunch of copyeditors.
9
When I got a DUI I wasnt able to drive a car for 5 years bc I couldnt afford to get my license back.
I had to feed myself. I had to survive. I used this wonderful thing called the bus to get around. I know illegal immigrants should be given extra rights and all, but if you dont have a license you should ride the bus, not illegally drive a car around.
I find it kind of sickening how the NYT cares so much about illegal immigrants that they promote ideas like giving them drivers licences and reducing the sentences of minor crimes so that illegals dont get deported.
What about the millions of us citizens who actually follow the rule of law? Do we mean anything to the NYT?
I had to feed myself. I had to survive. I used this wonderful thing called the bus to get around. I know illegal immigrants should be given extra rights and all, but if you dont have a license you should ride the bus, not illegally drive a car around.
I find it kind of sickening how the NYT cares so much about illegal immigrants that they promote ideas like giving them drivers licences and reducing the sentences of minor crimes so that illegals dont get deported.
What about the millions of us citizens who actually follow the rule of law? Do we mean anything to the NYT?
162
But where are the farms ?? Isolated areas where their is no public transportation
2
Americans won't work for $8 / hour to produce food, meat and milk.
Something's got to give. The price of food will definitely go way up.
Something's got to give. The price of food will definitely go way up.
2
If I have a DUI, I can not enter Canada, even as a tourist. I am inadmissible. Likewise, the USA refuses entry to any Canadian with a DUI. If an alien has a DUI, he should be immediately deport because he is inadmissible.
8
Who is facing the risk? The children without car seats and the public in general. Tired of high insurance payments to cover uninsured motorists? Kick these illegals out.
38
This kind of sentiment is exactly how the democratic party lost me. I voted democrat for the last 30 years of my life until the last election when I did a write in. I will get stopped and have to deal with serious consequences if I were to drive without a license/insurance. Somehow some people seem to think that we should allow these illegal aliens (NOT immigrants) to do things that are illegal to ordinary American citizens. For the record, I stood in line and waited a long time before having the privilege to live and work in the US and become a citizen. I cannot repeat enough times that being in this country is a privilege, not a right. If people cannot respect the laws of the land, they should not be here.
181
Those drivers are not "facing the risk", others in the general public are facing a higher risk - the lack of insurance coverage in case of an accident. It is a highly irresponsible decision to drive not only without a license but without proper insurance coverage. I have zero empathy for the problems of someone who is undocumented and decides to drive without license or insurance.
200
Absolutely!
Take the bus, which is one more reason to come legally: to be in public.
Take the bus, which is one more reason to come legally: to be in public.
7
Between the articles about immigration lawyers who are themselves undocumented immigrants and illegal immigrants driving illegally, I see a serious problem in the United States. I agree with earlier commenters who say these undocumented immigrants are breaking American laws, and they should be deported on those grounds. Immigration lawyers should know better than to break the laws they are supposedly sworn to uphold, and I am embarrassed as a California resident that the CA state bar allows them to practice the law. And I voted for Hillary Clinton, but in this part of the Democratic platform regarding deportation of illegal immigrants, I differ from many Democratic voters.
85
I agree! I know that to become a member of the New York bar, you have to swear to uphold our laws and swear that you have not broken any laws. Maybe that's all changed! Wouldn't that be funny? You can break our nations laws and still get a license to practice in California. You gotta love California and their free-wheeling ways.
5
Very well put. But I don't think you differ from as many Democratic voters as you think--it's more likely that Dem leadership has staked out the wrong position on this issue. I agree that it is embarrassing that CA has allowed illegal aliens to practice law. I didn't even know that law had passed, and, as you have said, it demonstrates a very serious problem that will only get worse.
7
Maybe not as many as you think. I think many Democrats and/or progressives are hesitant to speak up for fear of being labeled racist and/or politically incorrect in terms of enforcing immigration laws.
2
Why can't there be some type of traveler's permit only useful for driving? I used an international driver's license abroad when in Europe and paid insurance on it. Not useful for anything else.
3
An international driver's license is only a certification that you have a license, current and properly issued, in your home country. It is not a special license - just confirmation of an existing license.
9
This is very distressing. It is reminiscent of Europe in the 1930s. This is not America.
1
why? The police are pulling them over for an infraction such as a broken taillight, breastfeeding a non-secure infant, etc. They've never taken a driver's test or exam nor do they have insurance. It's not a witch hunt, so to speak. These people are breaking the law every day that they drive. What if all citizens decided to choose which laws they wanted to uphold and which they wanted to break?
20
No it's not. It's nothing like Europe in the 1930s.
I have friends who have had their cars TOTALED by illegal drivers who then fled the scene. Just because you are insured does not guarantee that your insurance company will work to help you when the person who hit you left the scene and cannot be held accountable. In fact most insurance companies will use it as a reason to delay making you whole. Imagine losing your car through no fault of your own because someone else took it upon themselves to get behind the wheel without insurance or an understanding of US driving law.
I have friends who have had their cars TOTALED by illegal drivers who then fled the scene. Just because you are insured does not guarantee that your insurance company will work to help you when the person who hit you left the scene and cannot be held accountable. In fact most insurance companies will use it as a reason to delay making you whole. Imagine losing your car through no fault of your own because someone else took it upon themselves to get behind the wheel without insurance or an understanding of US driving law.
27
Well, Blessinggirl, let's hope no one in your family is involved in an accident with an uninsured driver.
6
What is the argument in favor of letting people flaunt our laws and sneak into the country?
101
Because Americans are sneaking to other's countries too.
The Right want people to follow the law
The Left apparently condone lawbreakers and want to reward them with a driver's license.
The Left apparently condone lawbreakers and want to reward them with a driver's license.
6
Yeah so many people trying to get into Cuba, China, Russia. Yup by the busload. Not!
6
I remind everyone I know to buy supplemental auto insurance that covers you and your vehicle just in case you get hit by an uninsured driver. Allowing illegal aliens in our country to have driver's licenses makes this even more prudent.
Very often illegals involved with a car crash flee the country. I know a woman who is permanently paralyzed from a drunken crash and since the offender left the US to Brazil she has absolutely no recourse. Plus her life is ruined.
Very often illegals involved with a car crash flee the country. I know a woman who is permanently paralyzed from a drunken crash and since the offender left the US to Brazil she has absolutely no recourse. Plus her life is ruined.
52
Perhaps a 0.5% mandatory tax or charge on the standard car or truck insurance to pay for damage by people who fail to insure their cars - whether they are documented or not documented. There are a thousand arguments not to do it - there is only one argument for it. The argument for it is that the fund could be drawn down on to pay for injuries, hospitalisation, damage in case of uninsured drivers without grief and problems.
So everyone must suffer because people refuse to get insurance or drive w/o insurance/license? Not going to happen. Fine the offenders not those who follow the rules.
7
Without a driver's license there is no way of ensuring a traffic violator will appear in court. In the case of a traffic accident an unlicensed driver is not insured. The unlicensed driver has no reason to appear in court. Detention would solve this problem.
22
The unlicensed driver in that case is arrested in my state.
8
It seems like just another public gift to corporate america to conflate human rights and dignity with a right to drive. California's minimum insurance rates don't come close to the public cost of an injury accident. Aren't 35-40 thousand auto accident deaths per year, devotion of vast swaths of public space, and the annihilation of the environment enough of a giveaway?
12
Driving a car and getting a license is not a right it is a privilege. Get that straight. And legal documents should not be given out like candy to someone who isn't a citizen and broke the law to get into this country. When they get into an accident who pays? Them??? No we do those who pay insurance premiums that go up every year because you think that everyone has a right to drive. You are clueless.
26
The Times does the English language, and its readers, a disservice in using the term "undocumented". It is fraudulent. The term implies that it is the absence of a mere piece of paper that is the offense, as though the person stopped simply left it at home on top of the dresser that morning and forgot to put it in his wallet. Moreover, drivers' licenses are not the end of it; the left will assure that.
The single most popular part of the Trump agenda is his stance on illegal immigration, and rightly so. But the left remains wholly befuddled why his supporters are willing to overlook so much else about him--such as the attempts to repeal Obamacare. Effective public policy cannot be based on anecdotes.
The single most popular part of the Trump agenda is his stance on illegal immigration, and rightly so. But the left remains wholly befuddled why his supporters are willing to overlook so much else about him--such as the attempts to repeal Obamacare. Effective public policy cannot be based on anecdotes.
133
The Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (Affordable Care Act).
I have a very easygoing attitude towards immigration both legal and otherwise but I find myself furious when the subject of unlicensed drivers comes up. I live in Brooklyn but was originally from upstate so I'm familiar with two sides to the pro-licensing coin. I've worked construction where workers who had to get a ride to work were handed the keys to huge trucks to buy lumber or take scrap to the dump. In the city I see an endless supply of work trucks and vans with nyc business names and phone numbers painted on the doors driving around with 1 out of state plate from PA, Maryland, Georgia, or VA on the back.
I believe anyone caught driving without a drivers license should be treated the same as someone waiving a gun around a room because it is just as lethal. My sympathies with hardworking immigrants ends when there is an accident or drunk driving arrest.
I say give illegals the chance for a conditional license like the sort you can keep if your license is suspended; you can drive to work and school and that's it. In addition, raise the level of punishment for non compliance to brutally effective; deport anyone caught driving drunk or illegally once the ability to get a license has been achieved. It should satisfy the argument of those in the pro-licensing camp by allowing those folks to provide for their family, but it will guard against drivers with a cavalier attitude towards driving no matter what.
I believe anyone caught driving without a drivers license should be treated the same as someone waiving a gun around a room because it is just as lethal. My sympathies with hardworking immigrants ends when there is an accident or drunk driving arrest.
I say give illegals the chance for a conditional license like the sort you can keep if your license is suspended; you can drive to work and school and that's it. In addition, raise the level of punishment for non compliance to brutally effective; deport anyone caught driving drunk or illegally once the ability to get a license has been achieved. It should satisfy the argument of those in the pro-licensing camp by allowing those folks to provide for their family, but it will guard against drivers with a cavalier attitude towards driving no matter what.
67
Who will be enforcing a conditional license? As if the police don't already have enough road infractions to deal with, that are never or rarely enforced either.
I worry about those who can't read English driving on our roads to begin with.
I worry about those who can't read English driving on our roads to begin with.
10
Don't we have plenty of American citizens who would take those driving jobs?
6
I was with you till the last paragraph. We don't need to "give" them anything. Rather, we need to stop them from taking what doesn't belong to them.
6
Giving driver's licenses to illegal aliens is basically conferring legitimacy upon them. After all a driver's license is more than just a license to drive, it is the de facto form of identification in this country.
Since the vast majority of illegal immigrants are economic migrants, making driver's licenses available to them greatly reduces the cost of living in the US illegally and thus encourages more illegal immigration.
It is clear that the issue of driver's licenses for illegal aliens is more about imposing illegal aliens upon our society without our consent and increasing their value to corrupt employers than making the roads safer for everyday citizens.
Since the vast majority of illegal immigrants are economic migrants, making driver's licenses available to them greatly reduces the cost of living in the US illegally and thus encourages more illegal immigration.
It is clear that the issue of driver's licenses for illegal aliens is more about imposing illegal aliens upon our society without our consent and increasing their value to corrupt employers than making the roads safer for everyday citizens.
115
That is the OTHER infuriating thing about Licenses - they are the only real form of I.D. taken seriously - from drinking age to voting status. It's a joke. There should be National or State i.d. issued to every legal person - period.
If you want to walk or ride a bicycle for monetary or health and environmental reasons, you are a second class citizen.
I've always railed at this stupid, ingrained, accepted status quo.
If you want to walk or ride a bicycle for monetary or health and environmental reasons, you are a second class citizen.
I've always railed at this stupid, ingrained, accepted status quo.
11
Oddly though is that "illegal" or "undocumented" people can obtain legal forms of a "photo id" yet people if a liberal and/ or left leaning way of thinking baulk at the idea to require photo ids for voting.
Now this is the pretzel logic the NYT advocates daily.
Now this is the pretzel logic the NYT advocates daily.
3
Since Los Angeles started offering drivers licenses a few years ago to undocumented people the traffic has gotten insane, making the city unlivable. A Latino guy I hire a lot said in his neighborhood there used to be 1 car per house, but now it's about 6 or 7 (many share housing) and there's no place to park so they park on the sidewalks, lawns, anywhere. He was riding in my car and I was complaining about the traffic when he explained this to me. I never had insight into this but yes it makes sense. We are a city of undocumented people and letting them all have cars is insane. Even he thought so. Meanwhile the city can't figure out why bus ridership has plummeted. Well duh. Undocumented people should not be allowed to have cars. There is plenty of public transportation in Los Angeles now but hardly anyone left to use it.
55
Excuse me?! So, only undocumented people should be riding buses?
How about all the rich high schoolers in LA who also have their own cars and their homes have 4-5 cars (and they are not sharing any housing!). Well Duh back!
How about all the rich high schoolers in LA who also have their own cars and their homes have 4-5 cars (and they are not sharing any housing!). Well Duh back!
The rich high schoolers in LA who have cars are American citizens and have real drivers licenses. It has nothing to do with the topic.
6
i don't see anything here about 'only" illegals should ride buses
4
Do you know what would happen to me, an American citizen, if I were in Switzerland, Australia or Mexico illegally and I got caught jaywalking? I'd be deported after paying a hefty fine for violating that country's laws, and I'd probably be put on a list of people restricted from entering that country under any circumstances.
Why is it that in the eyes of the New York Times there is something insidious and hateful if the United States makes an effort to enforce the routine laws that every nation has to protect its borders and its sovereignty?
Why is it that in the eyes of the New York Times there is something insidious and hateful if the United States makes an effort to enforce the routine laws that every nation has to protect its borders and its sovereignty?
257
Your statement about countries deporting for jaywalking sounds like fake news. Attempted to research it...but...Could not find an article to confirm it.
1
Really? Jaywalking. What an absurd comment.
1
If you are jaywalking in Denmark or Sweden, the police will stop you (personal experience). My passport and date of entry were checked. If I was there longer than 90 days, I would have been arrested and deported. I got off with a stern warning about the respecting the laws of the country.
12
Democrat wisdom backed by California research of the Stanford variety:
- if you don't give licenses to illegals, you'll have more accidents
- if you don't give free contraceptives, there'll be more unwanted pregnancies
- if you don't legalize marijuana, crime will shoot up
- if you don't support Paris, you'll drop dead one day
Voter wisdom backing Trump: we didn't have Democrats, America would be great again.
So, the choice's between Trump common sense and Democrat, err, non sense. Take your pick. While the Dems are still around, that is.
- if you don't give licenses to illegals, you'll have more accidents
- if you don't give free contraceptives, there'll be more unwanted pregnancies
- if you don't legalize marijuana, crime will shoot up
- if you don't support Paris, you'll drop dead one day
Voter wisdom backing Trump: we didn't have Democrats, America would be great again.
So, the choice's between Trump common sense and Democrat, err, non sense. Take your pick. While the Dems are still around, that is.
19
Yeah with no dems around the government is fully functional. HA! Have you seen Republicans obstructing their own obstructionists in the Senate lately?
You need ideas to govern - not spite. Republicans are in short supply.
You need ideas to govern - not spite. Republicans are in short supply.
5
The fact is that there are fewer unwanted pregnancies in those towns that provide free accessible contraception. And there is nothing wrong with smoking marijuana. Alcohol is more dangerous. Don't confuse the issue.
4
With both houses, they still couldn't repeal Obamacare so how's that going for you?
When they cannot produce a license, arrest and detain them.
When we confirm they are here illegally, deport them.
Make it clear that if they are caught here again they will be jailed for a long stretch, at hard, hot labor.
Oh, and take your illegal family members with you.
When we confirm they are here illegally, deport them.
Make it clear that if they are caught here again they will be jailed for a long stretch, at hard, hot labor.
Oh, and take your illegal family members with you.
107
I dont support illegal immigration. I like how our municipalities are willing to go so out of their way to help illegal immigrants, but when it comes to citizens I feel that there is less support.
21
The Dems efforts to give licenses to illegal immigrants is red meat to Trump supporters. With all due respect to the subjects of this story, who are clearly here to work hard and to better their lives, we need to be a nation of laws. Creating support systems for people who have entered our country illegally makes a bad problem worse. But I don't see Mr. Cardona or the other illegal immigrants as the criminals here, it is 1) the dairy owners and other employers who knowingly hire them and then don't support them when they need to, say, go to the hospital, and 2) the legislators who refuse to create visa programs to allow guest workers to come in to our country. Great story highlighting a disgrace all around.
126
There are visa programs for guest worker - H2B
Trump officials order 15,000 new visas for low-wage, seasonal workers
http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-h2b-visas-low-wage-workers-201...
Trump officials order 15,000 new visas for low-wage, seasonal workers
http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-h2b-visas-low-wage-workers-201...
5
Some don't seem to understand we are a country of laws. obey them or go to jail. I don't like alternate side of the street parking but I obey it. Such things are fundamental to a functioning society.
166
Yeah but in law, the punishment has to be proportionate to the crime.
"They emphasized the public safety aspect of having noncitizen licenses so that all drivers know the rules of the road and carry insurance."
Here's a better idea: while the illegal aliens are riding on the deportation trains and buses on their way back to their own country, hand out State Department pamphlets explaining how to apply for legal entry to our country. That way, all illegal aliens will know the rules and they will not enter or remain illegally in our country.
Here's a better idea: while the illegal aliens are riding on the deportation trains and buses on their way back to their own country, hand out State Department pamphlets explaining how to apply for legal entry to our country. That way, all illegal aliens will know the rules and they will not enter or remain illegally in our country.
82
It took my wife, who entered the USA legally from Malaysia, almost 10 years and $20000 in legal fees to get her Green Card; and she is a Pediatric Oncologist with multiple degrees. The time is long overdue to stop allowing ILLEGAL Immigrants/Aliens to get away with breaking our Country's laws. When you come to this country illegally, and you get caught, you get punished. Sorry if you took the risk of coming here, knowing full well that you were not supposed to. Illegal aliens caught entering the country should be deported immediately. Illegal aliens caught driving without a license/insurance, should have their vehicle impounded, serve jail time ( hard labor!), and subsequently be deported when their jail time is up. No exceptions.
Don't you see that this country is like a ship. At some point it becomes overcrowded and starts to sink. We can no longer take everybody who wants to come here like we did 100 years ago ! We need a worker system where people from other countries apply for available jobs, and when we need them, we will call
Don't you see that this country is like a ship. At some point it becomes overcrowded and starts to sink. We can no longer take everybody who wants to come here like we did 100 years ago ! We need a worker system where people from other countries apply for available jobs, and when we need them, we will call
Which part of "illegal immigrant" do people not understand?
If they are caught, deport them quickly and cheaply. This will dissuade others from coming here in the future.
If they are caught, deport them quickly and cheaply. This will dissuade others from coming here in the future.
144
You should use your real name instead of a pseudonym. In any event, these are human beings with lives in this Country. They cannot be simply deported like cattle.
Well, they need time to tidy up their affairs, sell property, and arrange for shipping of their possession to another country. So I don't think it needs to be done quickly.
It also doesn't need to cost the public anything - people will pay their own way home.
It also doesn't need to cost the public anything - people will pay their own way home.
1
I prefer illegal alien myself.
2
Guest agricultural workers should be registered, coming only by themselves and returning to their home country after a limited time. They should be housed on site and only driven around by Americans. No need for anyone to be illegally here, for extended family members to also be here which adds to social costs in education and health, and allows for the birth of future citizens. We have had such programs in the 1950's and it was workable. Farmers love to socialize the costs while privatizing the profits. Time for the rule of law to be enforced for the safety and security of all Americans.
53
So if we allow people who have flaunted the law the ability to register their vehicles, buy expensive insurance, and obtain licenses they will suddenly become law-abiding residents? I'm not buying that. Insurance is expensive in New York, undocumented workers are usually poorly paid. I doubt they will rush to the motor vehicle office or the insurance companies to become legitimate.
79
The Times has found a new euphemism -- we have "undocumented" immigrants and, now, "unauthorized" immigrants. Both terms are designed to obscure the simple fact that there presence here is in violation of immigration law; if the editors don't like the term "illegal" immigrants perhaps they should consider "unlawful" immigrants.
No matter which term is used, the simple fact is that it refers to people who should not be in this country and I see no reason to make it easier from them to stay here by issuing driver's licenses.
No matter which term is used, the simple fact is that it refers to people who should not be in this country and I see no reason to make it easier from them to stay here by issuing driver's licenses.
211
You want to place a pejorative moniker on anyone who does not follow the law. Fine, then do it. Illegal midterms, illegal speeders, illegal jay walkers.
Calling people names leads to many negative connotations which have no justification in our society. You may not like to see Mexicans who crossed the border without documents, but they are here feeding our fat selves, washing the dishes and making the beds we won't, digging the ditches we won't. They have the same constitutional rights we all have, they have the right to buy groceries, send their children to school, pay taxes through payroll deductions and purchase of goods and yes many already buy insurance on the their vehicles.
To say that they will not buy insurance when they obtain a drivers license is a specious argument at best.
Calling people names leads to many negative connotations which have no justification in our society. You may not like to see Mexicans who crossed the border without documents, but they are here feeding our fat selves, washing the dishes and making the beds we won't, digging the ditches we won't. They have the same constitutional rights we all have, they have the right to buy groceries, send their children to school, pay taxes through payroll deductions and purchase of goods and yes many already buy insurance on the their vehicles.
To say that they will not buy insurance when they obtain a drivers license is a specious argument at best.
2
And for what its worth, our federal laws refer to these individuals as aliens. See 8 U.S.C. 1325.
13
Pay a decent wage, get on the backs of the employers and perhaps you'll have some LEGAL CITIZENS to do the work. I will bet the farm that they will NOT purchase insurance. You bleeding hearts just don't get it and sadly you never will.
10
Let's not confound the issue with anecdotes. And giving people proper identification is not tantamount to criminal activity. Our fear of foreign terrorists ignores the facts that those who took down the twin towers were in fact here legally and other terror attacks in this country were by US citizens.
To place the burden on undocumented people with the inability to drive legally only leads to illegal driving, uninsured motorists, and untrained drivers who do not know NY traffic laws. It does not prevent people from driving.
Do not confuse immigration laws and policies with NYS laws of public safety. Driving may be considered a privilege but it is also a necessity in rural areas of New York State. Work, church, school, and doctors cannot be reached on foot or on public transportation.
To place the burden on undocumented people with the inability to drive legally only leads to illegal driving, uninsured motorists, and untrained drivers who do not know NY traffic laws. It does not prevent people from driving.
Do not confuse immigration laws and policies with NYS laws of public safety. Driving may be considered a privilege but it is also a necessity in rural areas of New York State. Work, church, school, and doctors cannot be reached on foot or on public transportation.
10
Rather than making life easier for the illegals, we should come together to make life impossible for anyone with obvious terrorist potential. The people who took down the twin towers, and tried their best at the Pentagon at the same people who attacked at the Boston marathon. They should not be allowed in our country, and if that is racial profiling, so be it in the interests of public welfare. These creeps do nothing for the betterment of the United States or the world at large. And no privileges, or courtesies for the invaders. There are something like 30 million illegals in the country and that is roughly the population of Canada. I am an old man and remember well Ronald Reagan extending amnesty -- my heart sank.
11
By extension to your argument, people who have flaunted much more serious laws than driving without insurance will hardly feel compelled to maintain proper insurance just because you have given them the legal ability to do so. People also have the legal ability to emigrate to the United States but the population in question have chosen a much riskier route to circumvent the law. Why not compromise and allow for the provisional license with the caveat that if you have a vehicle and allow insurance to lapse AND you are caught operating the vehicle, you get a felony on your record and you are deported. If you have dependents that are US Citizens then you get to stay with the felony on your record but forfeit your Social Security benefits to a reduced additional benefit that passes on to your dependents.
Why keep the felony? As an incentive for the State to pass effective expungement laws to allow reformed brothers and sisters to get a true second chance to live and thrive here. Seems the only way meaningful reform happens is if it is shown to benefit illegal immigrants with no skin in the game.
Why keep the felony? As an incentive for the State to pass effective expungement laws to allow reformed brothers and sisters to get a true second chance to live and thrive here. Seems the only way meaningful reform happens is if it is shown to benefit illegal immigrants with no skin in the game.
In NY at least, it seems based on recent accidents, that there are heightened risks. However if the NYTEB feels they are subordinate to the current social goals, so be it. Funny how one infraction spawns another though, isn't it?
11