Twenty years ago China needed HK as a gateway to the world. Now Shanghai offers China everything HK offered two decades ago. Until China deviates from it's path of authoritarianism, HK will continue to resist, though the slow assimilation from Mainland may temper that.
What HK was supposed to offer, twenty years ago, was a roadmap for re-integration of Taiwan. Clearly that is now a dead issue. Taiwanese need only look at HK to see what freedoms China has to offer.
What HK was supposed to offer, twenty years ago, was a roadmap for re-integration of Taiwan. Clearly that is now a dead issue. Taiwanese need only look at HK to see what freedoms China has to offer.
27
The conclusion of this article seems to be that anything that is good and promising should be attributed to good old colonial Hong Kong and democracy, whereas anything that is problematic and challenging is the fault of the central gov. The central gov seems to be blamed for authoritarian leanings which causes concerns and its abiding by the democratic legislative process that leads to gridlock. Isn't that democracy in practice? In other countries term limits for politicians are seen as a good thing, but in HK it's seen as "accountability to Beijing". And the two young legislators who were not seated to their elected posts, I challenge author to print what they actually said in their swearing in ceremony. Be my guest - print it, word for word. For a sample, see here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hong_Kong_Legislative_Council_oath-taking_.... If what they said was said in the British gov or US Congress in an oath taking ceremony, it would be a problem too. Speaking of infrastructure building, the author failed to even mention the on-going constructions of the longest ocean crossing bridge, the HK-Zhuhai-Macau Bridge, which is to cost $10+B dollars, with a B.
While the author has a point, in that it's a tough and delicate road that Hong Kong is treading, it is also terribly one-sided with one pair of democracy-or-not lens to look through on everything.
While the author has a point, in that it's a tough and delicate road that Hong Kong is treading, it is also terribly one-sided with one pair of democracy-or-not lens to look through on everything.
19
While they ruled the British did not talk much about democracy, but as they were leaving, they started the illusion that the Hong Kongers would have a say and maybe have autonomy.
With Hong Kong's contribution to China's GDP going down from 20% at handover now down to 3% and even that dependent on China, what are the odds that China is going to allow any form of democracy. The smart ones go the US, Canadian, and Australian citizenship prior to the handover. For the others including the younger protesters , certainly they can keep protesting, but it will be a futile cause. They will only succeed if the liberalization movement gains ground in China, but there again with its strong grip, the Party is not going to let it happen.
For the last 100 years Hong Kong always bounced back no matter what happened. It is shocking to read the stalling of the high speed railway and the fact that there has not been a single new housing state since the hand over. This in a city which was the most efficient in the world and where everything worked . This is clear sign that the Hong Kong's better days are behind it and what you will see is the slow gradual decline. Its a pit.
With Hong Kong's contribution to China's GDP going down from 20% at handover now down to 3% and even that dependent on China, what are the odds that China is going to allow any form of democracy. The smart ones go the US, Canadian, and Australian citizenship prior to the handover. For the others including the younger protesters , certainly they can keep protesting, but it will be a futile cause. They will only succeed if the liberalization movement gains ground in China, but there again with its strong grip, the Party is not going to let it happen.
For the last 100 years Hong Kong always bounced back no matter what happened. It is shocking to read the stalling of the high speed railway and the fact that there has not been a single new housing state since the hand over. This in a city which was the most efficient in the world and where everything worked . This is clear sign that the Hong Kong's better days are behind it and what you will see is the slow gradual decline. Its a pit.
21
I enjoy reading replies from NYT. It is an excellent idea to increase communication between NYT readers and NYT writers and reporters.
11
10 year's ago any people from the world can come in Hong kong, open a company and open bank account, and make business.
Now you can open a company, but you cannot open a bank account, very difficult, the bank's in Hong kong afraid of the law FATCA BY USA, so you are foreigner, they will not open a account for you.
No account bank, you cannot transfert the money = you cannot make business, it's easy to understand.
Go in china, you can open account bank with only your passeport, nothing else.
Now you can open a company, but you cannot open a bank account, very difficult, the bank's in Hong kong afraid of the law FATCA BY USA, so you are foreigner, they will not open a account for you.
No account bank, you cannot transfert the money = you cannot make business, it's easy to understand.
Go in china, you can open account bank with only your passeport, nothing else.
7
I have lived in NY and HK for extended periods of time (years) and I love both cities. This is my prediction for HK 20 years from now -
1. Air pollution will be less than NY. HK has been aggressively investing in clean tech.
2. It will retain its status as Asia's financial hub. It is Asia's financial hub today.
3. There will be cultural harmony with mainland China. China's contribution to HK has already been tremendous. China will look more like HK than the other way around.
4. It will still have a housing shortage, like every other major city in the world.
5. HK infrastructure will be the envy of the world. The infrastructure in HK is already leading edge by any standard. There are more than 1000 electric car chargers just on HK island.
6. Nobody will miss colonialism and the colonists. Good riddles!
7. HK will continue to be a destination for foodies around the world. It's cuisine will be more diverse, more inviting than ever before.
That's it!
1. Air pollution will be less than NY. HK has been aggressively investing in clean tech.
2. It will retain its status as Asia's financial hub. It is Asia's financial hub today.
3. There will be cultural harmony with mainland China. China's contribution to HK has already been tremendous. China will look more like HK than the other way around.
4. It will still have a housing shortage, like every other major city in the world.
5. HK infrastructure will be the envy of the world. The infrastructure in HK is already leading edge by any standard. There are more than 1000 electric car chargers just on HK island.
6. Nobody will miss colonialism and the colonists. Good riddles!
7. HK will continue to be a destination for foodies around the world. It's cuisine will be more diverse, more inviting than ever before.
That's it!
16
When China decided to allow limited capitalism and took back Hong Kong, it was clear to me that Hong Kong was destined to become the barely tolerated step-sister. Shanghai was where China was putting its money. China had a strong need to prove that it could do it better and supporting Hong Kong wasn't going to give the needed result.
7
The comments often conflate economic success with political freedom and liberal culture. The article does not spend time exploring the possibility that while there are problems that those problems would have existed regardless of the change in power.
Many of the problems described could be said of ANY major city in ANY developed country: overcrowding, high cost of living, income/wealth inequality, political corruption, transportation problems, etc. Change the names and they could be talking about NYC.
Many of the problems described could be said of ANY major city in ANY developed country: overcrowding, high cost of living, income/wealth inequality, political corruption, transportation problems, etc. Change the names and they could be talking about NYC.
4
I was born, grew up and educated in Hong Kong as a non Chinese person went to Chinese schools and then British secondary schools. I worked for many years in hotels in Hong Kong and left to make a new life in Britain in the year of the handover 1997, in my early 30's.
This June, 20 years later I returned to HK for a holiday. It's changed enormously and agree with another comment made here that it feels like it has lost its soul.
Life moves on and changes come and go, while many buildings remain the same, the dichotomy of a heart that is westernised and the influence of the mainland is palpable.
I fear that the future will be a confused mess of conflict and what makes the people and place so unique will be lost. Already there are generations that don't remember a pre-handover Hong Kong and inevitably the city will morph into some new uncharted type of city in the future, no doubt.
Physically still one of the most beautiful, enchanting cities in the world! Good luck for the future my HK friends!
This June, 20 years later I returned to HK for a holiday. It's changed enormously and agree with another comment made here that it feels like it has lost its soul.
Life moves on and changes come and go, while many buildings remain the same, the dichotomy of a heart that is westernised and the influence of the mainland is palpable.
I fear that the future will be a confused mess of conflict and what makes the people and place so unique will be lost. Already there are generations that don't remember a pre-handover Hong Kong and inevitably the city will morph into some new uncharted type of city in the future, no doubt.
Physically still one of the most beautiful, enchanting cities in the world! Good luck for the future my HK friends!
11
Stunning photographs. Thanks!
8
Hong Kong is simply going the way of all things on earth which is downward. It is de-volving rather than evolving upward. The trend of the planet, the globe, the world is such that no further advancement is probable and certainly not possible.
Every country, nation, city, metropolis, rural area, etc. -- developed, semi-developed or undeveloped has reached its nadir. No further forward or progressive development or life is possible on this planet Earth. The planet and whatever species it has spawned have reached maximum capacity for any further advancement in any evolutionary chain.
Be it through ideological, religious, secular, chemical, mechanical, nuclear or conventional means, the promised Apocalypse and Armageddon are easily within reach in the lifetimes of many of us. Every living organism has a lifespan -- including this planet and its beings -- be they human beings or otherwise. Our days are numbered and the most important thing to remember is that no one gets out alive.
Every country, nation, city, metropolis, rural area, etc. -- developed, semi-developed or undeveloped has reached its nadir. No further forward or progressive development or life is possible on this planet Earth. The planet and whatever species it has spawned have reached maximum capacity for any further advancement in any evolutionary chain.
Be it through ideological, religious, secular, chemical, mechanical, nuclear or conventional means, the promised Apocalypse and Armageddon are easily within reach in the lifetimes of many of us. Every living organism has a lifespan -- including this planet and its beings -- be they human beings or otherwise. Our days are numbered and the most important thing to remember is that no one gets out alive.
6
"One country two system" formula was a good political experiment when it was promulgated by Mr. Deng Xiaoping back then, and in the past 20 years after the handover of power from Britian to PRC, the formula has been implemented with a considerable number of fruits, to name a few, Hong Kong's prosperity and stability has been maintained, and rule of law still remains an admirable assets. The problems emerged when there was irreconcilable division regarding what kind of democracy should be carried out in Hongkong, the pro-Beijing side prefer controlled suffrage first, but the anti-Beijing side prefer to copy the free version of Western democracy in one stroke. Then the political roadmap for Hokong to have an election in 2017 aborted. Now the chasm turns wider, so much so that it takes more time and patience to mend.
4
Having spoken to people who have traveled to authoritarian countries like Russia, Egypt, and China, it seems to me authoritarian regimes are rarely efficient. On paper, it looks like democracy leads to gridlock. But in actuality, government with no accountability or transparency becomes dysfunctional much more quickly and much more dramatically. Corruptions becomes normal. Institutions serve those in power instead of the people they were intended to serve.
Democracies might hardly be utopias, but there is a mechanism for self-correction, lurching as that process might be. In authoritarian regimes, there is no inherent incentive for the government to fix itself. It's much easier to just fix the people who dare to complain.
Democracies might hardly be utopias, but there is a mechanism for self-correction, lurching as that process might be. In authoritarian regimes, there is no inherent incentive for the government to fix itself. It's much easier to just fix the people who dare to complain.
13
My view is most of HK's problems are self created.
The city was and still is designed and managed for business, not living residents. Best to view HK as a workplace that happen to have 6+ million people living right on the premise. Its laws and policies--low tax, minimum regulation, minimum social service, etc--are all designed for the benefit of the businesses. Its public health care system depends overwhelmingly on funding from the private race track.
The current government structure is a holdover from the British colonial era. UK never made effort to democratize or to give local a voice until early 90s, just before Beijing regained control. Its legislative body has always been dominated by business groups, so they have little incentive to give citizens more voice that would raise their tax burdens. London backed them before '97, Beijing back them after '97. So this is not a sign that Mainland China is messing with HK. It is what HK businesses want.
HK is a fine example of what is wrong with a government that favors low tax and minimum involvement, because minimal government involvement means it focuses overwhelming on business needs and leave ordinary citizens to fend for themselves. HK is a great example of what US can look like if the Republicans get their way.
The city was and still is designed and managed for business, not living residents. Best to view HK as a workplace that happen to have 6+ million people living right on the premise. Its laws and policies--low tax, minimum regulation, minimum social service, etc--are all designed for the benefit of the businesses. Its public health care system depends overwhelmingly on funding from the private race track.
The current government structure is a holdover from the British colonial era. UK never made effort to democratize or to give local a voice until early 90s, just before Beijing regained control. Its legislative body has always been dominated by business groups, so they have little incentive to give citizens more voice that would raise their tax burdens. London backed them before '97, Beijing back them after '97. So this is not a sign that Mainland China is messing with HK. It is what HK businesses want.
HK is a fine example of what is wrong with a government that favors low tax and minimum involvement, because minimal government involvement means it focuses overwhelming on business needs and leave ordinary citizens to fend for themselves. HK is a great example of what US can look like if the Republicans get their way.
7
The hardest part for me about living in HK is that there is just no optimism for the future. This negative attitude seems to permeate every aspect of life here. It's a very different energy from a place like Shanghai, which seems to know its future will be much brighter. The "Hong Kong dream," if there is one, seems not to be the ability to buy an apartment - as hard a feat as that actually is (I recently saw a place in my very modest building advertise for ~$800k) - but the ability to have an escape plan. Anyone wealthy enough to have a second passport, residency card, or property somewhere else almost certainly does.
9
Bottom line: HK was a better place under British rule. China has put control ahead of what is good for the city and this article documents the decline. They certainly have succeeded in implementing their authority, but they can't ignore the sad result. China has it's own vision that is out of sync with the rest of the developed world. That is not going to change.
10
I grew up in NY and recently returned after working and living in HK for 17 years and living in Beijing and Shanghai for almost 5 years, I applaud this article and its writer for the insight into a great city and its remarkable people.
It is a sad tale with an even worse inevitable outcome for anyone who values individual freedoms, rule of law, a clean government and true universal suffrage.
Critics of the pro-democracy camp often say that the British never granted real democracy either. Yes, that is true. But Hong Kong people had enjoyed much more freedom and legal protections than any mainland Chinese can dare to dream about.
Mainlanders have been voting with their feet and wallets to get away from the corruption and lack of legal protections by emigrating to HK and elsewhere, often through foreign investor immigration to launder and protect their ill-begotten wealth.
Great Britain betrayed its former subjects by not granting residency to all Hong Kong people after signing the Joint Declaration. The generation in the 80s that sought safety by emigrating to Canada and other Western democracies are now vindicated. Unfortunately, the current global environment for refugees is poor.
But several Western countries like Canada, USA and Australia can easily absorb all HK people. As seen in the previous immigration wave, these countries will gain one of the hardest working, entrepreneurial, honest and law-abiding groups of people in the world.
It is a sad tale with an even worse inevitable outcome for anyone who values individual freedoms, rule of law, a clean government and true universal suffrage.
Critics of the pro-democracy camp often say that the British never granted real democracy either. Yes, that is true. But Hong Kong people had enjoyed much more freedom and legal protections than any mainland Chinese can dare to dream about.
Mainlanders have been voting with their feet and wallets to get away from the corruption and lack of legal protections by emigrating to HK and elsewhere, often through foreign investor immigration to launder and protect their ill-begotten wealth.
Great Britain betrayed its former subjects by not granting residency to all Hong Kong people after signing the Joint Declaration. The generation in the 80s that sought safety by emigrating to Canada and other Western democracies are now vindicated. Unfortunately, the current global environment for refugees is poor.
But several Western countries like Canada, USA and Australia can easily absorb all HK people. As seen in the previous immigration wave, these countries will gain one of the hardest working, entrepreneurial, honest and law-abiding groups of people in the world.
16
The fundamental problem between Hong Kong and China is lack of foundation of trust. The trust was fragile and has been broken by the Beijing administration.
According to the "Two Systems One Country" promised for fifty years, the Beijing administration has no jurisdiction to arrest people in Hong Kong. But as reported here Chinese officers abducting the booksellers and a tycoon in last few years has made the fragile commitment a joke. No body in Hong Kong will trust the Communists.
The trend of Hong Kong is similar to what has been developing in Taiwan. Lack of foundation of trust can only harden the conviction of seeking independence from China.
If China cannot understand it, it is impossible for China to make Hong Kong fall into its arms.
According to the "Two Systems One Country" promised for fifty years, the Beijing administration has no jurisdiction to arrest people in Hong Kong. But as reported here Chinese officers abducting the booksellers and a tycoon in last few years has made the fragile commitment a joke. No body in Hong Kong will trust the Communists.
The trend of Hong Kong is similar to what has been developing in Taiwan. Lack of foundation of trust can only harden the conviction of seeking independence from China.
If China cannot understand it, it is impossible for China to make Hong Kong fall into its arms.
9
I have gone to HK many, many times in the last 11 years. Have lots of good friends. It is a shame to see the mainland government slowly squeeze the life and culture and vibrancy out of HK judo so it suits the mainland leadership. I feel sorry for the people of that wonderful city. Xi and his crowd are showing how rigid and fearful they are. Chinese civilization seems to have been at its best when its diversity was allowed to express itself in arts and culture.
27
Thanks for this excellent article - I live for almost 6 years in Hong Kong and love the place - though political development is not encouraging... One problem is that well educated people have too many options here - including the expats - which means if the situation gets tough they just will move on to the next hot spot. Including many young and well educated Hong Konger, who often have dual citizenship (US, AUS, UK, CAN etc), those are most likely not the ones which will stand up and resist, since this will come with a price tag. The people who really have a lot to lose and don't have alternatives, are often not so well educated and don't have a distinguished voice in the society, hence chances are little to be successful.
There is no press institution in Hong Kong which would be able to produce such a great piece of work as nytimes did. Thanks a lot! Great pictures!!
There is no press institution in Hong Kong which would be able to produce such a great piece of work as nytimes did. Thanks a lot! Great pictures!!
26
For fearless English language journalism, try the Hong Kong Free Press. Their limitations are only budgetary, so if you like them, contribute!
8
Beijing's narrative would be more convincing if the rest of China were some kind of functional utopia. But based on most accounts, including a family member who travels there regularly for business, authoritarianism has hardly yield efficiency. Making government a black box with zero transparency or accountability has made it rife with corruption and kakfa-esque non-logic.
18
As we navigate the world, things are changing every where, people, economy, politics, law, weather, tech, belief, etc. And all things weren't rosy and cosy before 97 and the cynics who predicted dire comparisons were wrong. Hong Kong has moved on and still unique and vibrant in Asia and more so in China in which ever way you compare. The challenge we have a large density of population and emigrants moving in more so than leaving this city but I think this is a separate issue altogether.
6
Twenty years ago, Hong Kong is clearly the greatest city in China with almost no rival in Asia except Tokyo. Today, Hong Kong is just one of the many great cities competing for resources and talents. Does being peerless and number one matter? You bet.
9
We could fill 10,000 pages with arguments about China
6
Sitting here in Hong Kong, it seems to be doing much better than Washington, DC.
29
You should sit in Beijing for a few years.
6
Hk is ranked number 1 in human freedom index by the Cato institute el al. Just a fun fact.
1
I read thru the comments and it appears that opinions supporting the Communist dictatorship are at about even with those who seem to sympathize with the Democracy movement...
A good insight into the average NYT reader and their appreciation (or dislike) of Democracy.
A good insight into the average NYT reader and their appreciation (or dislike) of Democracy.
6
I was in Hong Kong last November.
It seemed like a seedy shadow of it's former vibrant self. It's soul was gone.
It seemed like a seedy shadow of it's former vibrant self. It's soul was gone.
9
The city's soul is intact, but it is endangered.
3
From the article: "Beijing began encroaching on this former British colony’s freedoms"
Former British colony’s freedoms. Former British colony’s freedoms! How many decades must one toil away in the Ministry of Truth before one can string phrases like that together?
Britain murdered a load of Chinese people 175 years ago in order to forcibly seize land for a port on which they could push heroin and opium on the Chinese. The Chinese people were finally liberated from this colonial/imperial "freedom" twenty years ago, thank the heavens.
On the other side of the world, the six northern counties of Ireland just voted to remain in the EU. 18 MP's for Westminster were just elected as well - the 11 unionists are going to Westminster, but all 7 nationalist MPs will not go to Westminster because they don't recognize Britain's colonial claim to their six counties. The Britain which is about to put up borders across an Ireland that has, on both sides of the border, voted for the EU (and against Brexit in the six county north).
That's British colonial democracy for you. Congratulations to the Chinese for being free of it and the New York Times liberal blessings.
Former British colony’s freedoms. Former British colony’s freedoms! How many decades must one toil away in the Ministry of Truth before one can string phrases like that together?
Britain murdered a load of Chinese people 175 years ago in order to forcibly seize land for a port on which they could push heroin and opium on the Chinese. The Chinese people were finally liberated from this colonial/imperial "freedom" twenty years ago, thank the heavens.
On the other side of the world, the six northern counties of Ireland just voted to remain in the EU. 18 MP's for Westminster were just elected as well - the 11 unionists are going to Westminster, but all 7 nationalist MPs will not go to Westminster because they don't recognize Britain's colonial claim to their six counties. The Britain which is about to put up borders across an Ireland that has, on both sides of the border, voted for the EU (and against Brexit in the six county north).
That's British colonial democracy for you. Congratulations to the Chinese for being free of it and the New York Times liberal blessings.
16
I have no idea what you are raging about with that headline. Hong Kong is in fact a former British colony. One might say that does not have a great deal of relevance to its current struggle for democracy and self-governance. However, the label is accurate. Beijing is in fact encroaching on its freedoms. In fact, the Beijing government doesn't even really deny that, since Beijing's view is those freedoms are inappropriate.
Don't play apologist for an authoritarian regime just so you can criticize Britain, an don't throw the people of Hong Kong under the bus.
Don't play apologist for an authoritarian regime just so you can criticize Britain, an don't throw the people of Hong Kong under the bus.
50
I grew up in Hong Kong and enjoyed the freedom the British established which included free press, rule of law, an effective ICAC (Independant Commission Against Corruption), affordable medical and education system. The Hong Kong Police was excellent too. Most people I grew up with were grateful to have the British government. No government is perfect. If we were ruled by any other government that is not influenced by western civilization, our lot would have been much worse. Please study more history.
11
So - the majority of elected representatives choose to go to Westminster and choose to be part of the UK. Sounds democratic to me.
By the way 'nationalist' MPs do take their seats at Westminster and have done so ever since the C19th. 'Republican' MPs do not take their seats. You would know this if your knowledge of Ireland was more than ancestral and anecdotal.
By the way 'nationalist' MPs do take their seats at Westminster and have done so ever since the C19th. 'Republican' MPs do not take their seats. You would know this if your knowledge of Ireland was more than ancestral and anecdotal.
3
I had the privilege of spending about one weekend a month in Hong Kong during the three years I traveled between the US and Kunming, Yunnan, PRC. I had ample opportunity to sample both a chinese city and a western city with chinese characteristics. I also visited Hong Kong in the years immediately following the handover.
My belief then and now is that under influence of the Chinese Communist Party and the PRC central government in Beijing there were only three possible outcomes from the new regime. Hong Kong would be improved as a place to live and work, it would stay the same, or it would be degraded. As this article points out, the answer is now clear.
My belief then and now is that under influence of the Chinese Communist Party and the PRC central government in Beijing there were only three possible outcomes from the new regime. Hong Kong would be improved as a place to live and work, it would stay the same, or it would be degraded. As this article points out, the answer is now clear.
8
I encourage you to visit Kunming and Hong Kong and see for yourself. You might also ask what are people's view of MAGA.
1
Why does it make sense for people that cannot afford to live in the city to live in the city? If we must have subsidized housing let the rich pay for all of it. The high prices exist only because employers choose to put many thousands of jobs in locations that create supply problems. With the communication we have today, there is no productivity advantage to putting large groups of tall buildings all in one place. In fact, it is less productive because the travel from home to work for many wastes a lot of time.
4
Job opportunities only contributed very little part of the skyrocketing housing price. The major cause is the influx of Mainland population after the return in 97, Mainland mothers come to Hong Kong to give birth so their kids could get HK citizenship, in order to gain access to better social welfare, safer food, and for better or worse, more freedom.
And as the article mentioned, there're also rich Chinese people who want to get their money out of China, with the high demand of housing and relationship with China, Hong Kong becomes an obvious investment option for them.
And as the article mentioned, there're also rich Chinese people who want to get their money out of China, with the high demand of housing and relationship with China, Hong Kong becomes an obvious investment option for them.
4
so many people were so optimistic when Hong Kong was taken over by china, but it was inevitable that a police state would be imposed. those who got out made the right choice.
8
all of my friends sent their kids to college overseas. all of them returned to hong kong after they graduated from college.
there is no place like home.
there is no place like home.
I have a friend in her late 20s who lives in Xi an. When I asked her about the Umbrella movement, she had no idea what I was talking about. When I asked whether she saw problems with the Chinese gov, she essentially avoided my question (this was over Skype). My guess is that only very observant, cynical mainland citizens really know what's going on there.
10
I wish readers would spend more time processing things they read before accusing journalists of being biased and resorting to ad hominem attacks. The author doesn't imply British rule was better in every way, he just uses facts to argue that HK now has different challenges than before. Few can argue that there was more external influence on domestic policy when the British ruled, than today under Beijing. Beijing is simply more influential, good or bad. The thesis here is because of this increased influence, it makes it harder to enact policies. And the problems HK faces now are in housing, education, and public construction. The challenge is how to solve them under this new political Beijing vs local party gridlock. Maybe the critics of the article can focus on that? Thanks for making us think and discuss, Keith.
10
The best written story about Hong Kong's beautiful past and hopeless future. I went to Hong Kong as a child in 1939 during the Sino-Japanese War. I came to the U.S. in 1949 and building a new life in America. I love Hong Kong and I have been visiting Hong Kong once every few years. Hong Kong belongs to Hong Kong people. Chinese dictators come and go but Hong Kong freedom loving people will always be in Hong Kong fighting for their better future. Hong Kong's democracy is in the hands of Hong Kong's young people. America is now a divided country but American young people are also fighting for their better future. Do not abandon hope.
15
As an expat American in Hong Kong for the past ten years, I enjoy Mr Brasher's work on Hong Kong and agree with the primary thesis that both Pro-democracy and Pro-Beijing groups will find different faults in the Hong Kong model insofar as their willingness to blame to the 'failed' philosophy of the the other group's political vision of long-term stability. However the major missing element is that both groups benefit from the status quo of watching Hong Kong fail. Beijing uses Hong Kong as a foil and demonstrates to its real constituency, China, the Hong Kong's 'freedoms' would lead to social collapse on the Mainland, which may well be true. After all China's leadership won a Nobel Prize just for keeping one billion people alive and out of starvation, no mean feat. On the other hand, Hong Kong's symbolic resistance allows both groups to allow their political philosophies to enter the Chinese public domain of political conception at a controlled rate. China democratizes while Hong Kong acts as a brake on the process. As an English Teacher in local schools I see Beijing's practical concern that foreign influence is political brainwashing. You can imagine how we might feel in America if every school had a Chinese teacher promoting Chinese socialism as a cure to America's woes, which arguably are severe in a very different way.
12
Soft soap. Pandering to the mainland government
5
Hong Kong was British colonies. You call it democracy?
13
Hong Kong is bad compared to what, Detroit, Camden, Baltimore, Washington DC, Chicago, New York and many other American Cities. t is one of the Great cities of the World, whether you know it or not. Why not talk about one of these lovely American Cities. Hong Kong is far ahead of New York City, by any measure.
11
When I speak to expats and locals in Hong Kong, they all seem demoralized and unhappy with the way things are going, focused on the past.
When I speak to expats and locals in Shenzhen, they're busy working on two startups, all focused on the future.
They're only a river apart, but they might as well be 1,000 miles. The miserable folks in Hong Kong claim that Shenzhen is awful, yet the folks I meet working in Shenzhen seem much busier and happier- and were I to move down to the PRD, I know which side of the divide I'd be on.
Hong Kongers need to accept that there's no future without the PRC, and that future doesn't have to be all bad. Life here in Shanghai is quite good. Life in Shenzhen is quite good. Don't look back. We're too busy looking forward.
When I speak to expats and locals in Shenzhen, they're busy working on two startups, all focused on the future.
They're only a river apart, but they might as well be 1,000 miles. The miserable folks in Hong Kong claim that Shenzhen is awful, yet the folks I meet working in Shenzhen seem much busier and happier- and were I to move down to the PRD, I know which side of the divide I'd be on.
Hong Kongers need to accept that there's no future without the PRC, and that future doesn't have to be all bad. Life here in Shanghai is quite good. Life in Shenzhen is quite good. Don't look back. We're too busy looking forward.
13
First, the Chinese government should be given all due credit for lifting most of its people out of subsistence poverty in less than 30 years. Its economic development especially in manufacturing and technology is breathtaking.
However we should not lose sight of the social and environmental costs and the legal (or lack of) environment with which mainlanders still have to contend.
We really need to applaud these startups because we hope they succeed in spite of all that they have to navigate through: corruption, lack of legal protection for IP, regulatory maze and turf wars, unenforceable contracts, etc.
However we should not lose sight of the social and environmental costs and the legal (or lack of) environment with which mainlanders still have to contend.
We really need to applaud these startups because we hope they succeed in spite of all that they have to navigate through: corruption, lack of legal protection for IP, regulatory maze and turf wars, unenforceable contracts, etc.
1
Life, for you, appears to involve opportunities for making money. God knows Hongkongers are into that, too. But their experience under Chinese rule has broadened their horizons.
3
Trust me, when you learn the fact that no matter how hard you work, you will almost never be able to buy you own house unless you are born in a wealthy family, when you see the price of commodities rises without end because people are buying them in bulk and reselling them in Mainland China for better profit, when you read about people being abducted because they said or published something the Chinese gov doesn't like when your city was once proud of its freedom of speech and publish, when the police force is no longer trustworthy because instead of protecting the citizens, when your local government spends huge amount of money on projects that bring more wealth to the wealthy Chinese merchants while cutting budgets on local medical, education system, when you try to make a different by protesting against the government, but only met with pepper spray, baton in the face and even rubber bullets...
Maybe it is hard for someone to stay optimistic under such situation?
Maybe it is hard for someone to stay optimistic under such situation?
8
Isn't it amazing that many commenters seem to forget one key piece of history - that for all time before the handover, HK under the British rule was never a "democracy"? What are those few HK people thinking when they yearned for British rule as against the return to China? Worship of the god of democracy can be so blinding.
25
how convenient commenters forget hong kong was leased to uk under the barrels of guns after the opium war.
Chinese are pragmatic. they would choose stability over democracy any day of the week.
Chinese are pragmatic. they would choose stability over democracy any day of the week.
Andrew, I presume some of these well educated, intelligent and proud members of the Pro-Democracy Movement or Party are not just being nostalgic for the good ole days of the British Raj. That would be so ridiculous. Hong Kong was a colony...through and through, under Her Majesty's rule. It was not a Democracy. I presume they are trying to build one...which is difficult with too much interference from anywhere, including England, the US, Israel, Mauritius (humor here) or Saudi Arabia, etc. On the other hand getting things done does require resolving gridlock, stalemate, too much partisanship and the unwillingness to negotiate and compromise to move forward. Did anyone consideration Third Party that is not divided between two extremes and total distrust of the other?
HK was never a democracy because the Chinese government insisted that the British not institute it.
4
Many in Hong Kong say the "one-country-two-system" principle formulated by Deng Xiaoping in the 1980s was merely a lip service. During the last twenty years since Britain's handover of the colony to China, activists say the 1984 pact - the Sino-British Joint Declaration - signed by Margaret Thatcher and Deng did not oblige Beijing to accept a Western-style democracy in Hong Kong for 50 years.
The pact did promise the territory “a high degree of autonomy,” in issues that don't clash with Chinese national security. Critics say it's now clear that the wording gave China enough room to control the policy and decision making for the millions of Hong Kong citizens. Britain has been blamed for not pushing hard enough for a more precise language and intent of the 1984 declaration.
The pact did promise the territory “a high degree of autonomy,” in issues that don't clash with Chinese national security. Critics say it's now clear that the wording gave China enough room to control the policy and decision making for the millions of Hong Kong citizens. Britain has been blamed for not pushing hard enough for a more precise language and intent of the 1984 declaration.
16
Precise wording? What about the domestic and international behavior of the autocratic Chinese government leads you to believe that they would care one whit about the precise wording of their deal with the British? Is it not clear that they will, over time and in their own charming way, do exactly what they want regardless of what treaties do or don't say?
9
One China, two systems is honoured. Two hideous systems - worse in Hong Kong as it has a pretence of voting by people.
3
How many seats did Hong Kong people have in the UK Parliament? Oh, that's right, none. A bit late for Westerners to agonize over lack of democracy in Hong Kong.
26
You guys trusted Britain too much. Did you not see or know what happened with South Asia,the Middle East, Africa...when Britain ruled them and when Britain left them? All kinds of land disputes, territorial problems and cultural conflicts emerged. Why did the people of Hong Kong trust Britain too much on this very important long-term matter? That shows Hong Kong has not decolonized itself that much. Maybe it will be easier to fight for democracy and sustain democracy when there is less or no internalized colonialism, or internal mental and cultural colonization.
4
That is why the West is suggesting improvements based on their mistakes. You seem to share the widely held view among some Chinese who have superficial experience with the Western democracy that CCP is entitled to experiment with already proven failed ideas (totalitarian societies) with a sweeping assumption that the Chinese are a different kind of homo sapiens.
2
Most 'Westerners' aren't agonising over it. Many expats in HK couldn't tell you what the Basic Law means or, to be frank, care what is going on. The people who care are HK's proud and resilient residents (those of them who have not sold their souls in the name of Mainland business opportunities to the CPC
6
i spent about 10 days in hong kong and guangzhou starting xmas day 1993.
i also lived in the neighbourhood, japan, for a number of years.
anybody who thought this would turn out well for hong kong is, at best, naive.
i also lived in the neighbourhood, japan, for a number of years.
anybody who thought this would turn out well for hong kong is, at best, naive.
15
China's government seems to think that Hong Kong's citizens will be satisfied with business opportunities given the growth of China. Recent rhetoric has even explicitly talked about growth of opportunities for HK residents who want to work in nearby Guangzhou or Shenzhen. And HK is being integrated into the Pearl River Delta through HSR and new infrastructure, with the city still retaining a role as a high-level financial, service, and culture center. Yet, they're missing the point. The discontent is not all economic, it's a feeling of loss of control, loss of culture, loss of culture, and dominance of luxury stores and luxury real estate in the city. The belief in Marxist historical materialism by the Communist Party has been warped into a peculiarly strong form of consumerism and materialism that generally fails to incorporate social or cultural elements in the official rhetoric of fazhan, or "development".
9
Very sad. However, this state of affairs was entirely predictable 20 years ago when Hong Kong was turned over to a brutal government that hates a free people. But then authoritarianism, whether in the guise of communism or its close cousin, fascism, destroys individual freedom, turning people into nothing more than wards of the state, dictated to as to what they should or can do.
6
Hi Tex, please provide data rather than cheerleader chants. The real situation is a lot more complex. From what I know, and I almost certainly know more about Hong Kong and China than you do, the leadership in Beijing does not have any nefarious plans for Hong Kong. As China has risen economically, they are less and less focussed on HK and just wish that it would get on with things and with one another. There are problems with corruption and lack of rule of law in mainland China, but Hong Kong is largely continuing under the system that it had before handover, including both government structure and judiciary, so many choose to do business here rather than in mainland cities because of that.
3
Excellent point! As you know, both Communism and Capitalism are Material theories with two different approaches to economic security, welfare and/ or wealth. This might explain why many Chinese from mainland China go from Communism to Consumerism without balance. This is a danger to a government that wants control and loyalty while some Chinese are willing to sell their country (and practice corruption) for Rolex watches and expensive Italian shoes. Lot of developing and growing Chinese cities are now shopping malls, eateries and parking garages. So sad!
2
I don't mean to question your expertise, but if you think that " Hong Kong is largely continuing under the system that it had before handover," you just haven't been paying attention.
5
The irony here is that if you flip the coin the argument can easily be HK is less nimble precisely because it is more democratic now. People always look at the past with rose color glasses.
The problem is that China's is willing to tolerate enough to keep up its end of the bargain of 1984 (when the join declaration was signed) but not enough to effect its perceived sovereignty. On the other end you have a bunch of HKers who do not perceive themselves as Chinese and want independence. Therefore it is very difficult to compromise on any issues. Funny how this sounds very much like the state of things in Washington...
The problem is that China's is willing to tolerate enough to keep up its end of the bargain of 1984 (when the join declaration was signed) but not enough to effect its perceived sovereignty. On the other end you have a bunch of HKers who do not perceive themselves as Chinese and want independence. Therefore it is very difficult to compromise on any issues. Funny how this sounds very much like the state of things in Washington...
7
1. Hong Kong is not demonstrably "more democratic now" than it was at the end of British rule. The Legislative Council is freely elected, but only within a system jerry-rigged by the CPC to ensure favorable results for sufficient pro-Beijing candidates in competitive races, and an ultimate Legco majority through the rotten boroughs of the functional constituencies.
2. Very few Hongkongers advocate outright independence from China. This controversy was manufactured by the outgoing Chief Executive, CY Leung, at the behest of his bosses in Beijing. It was intended to drive a wedge between factions of the pro-democracy movement. Insofar as the strategy has succeeded, it's entirely because increasing numbers of people find CPC rule repugant and intolerable.
2. Very few Hongkongers advocate outright independence from China. This controversy was manufactured by the outgoing Chief Executive, CY Leung, at the behest of his bosses in Beijing. It was intended to drive a wedge between factions of the pro-democracy movement. Insofar as the strategy has succeeded, it's entirely because increasing numbers of people find CPC rule repugant and intolerable.
5
The spoiled "democracy activists" of HK and the NYT file to see the reality of the past 20 years.
Over the past 2 decades, many cities in China are becoming more and more like HK. Cosmopolitan, vibrant, fast developing, with growing middle classes and growing wealth.
HK, if it continues with its inpetulance, risks being left way behind. They better wake up and shape up.
Over the past 2 decades, many cities in China are becoming more and more like HK. Cosmopolitan, vibrant, fast developing, with growing middle classes and growing wealth.
HK, if it continues with its inpetulance, risks being left way behind. They better wake up and shape up.
9
I note that you've left the concept of free expression out of your picture of a Chinese middle class utopia, and that your model is framed from an exclusively economic perspective.
1
This is so true. I would much rather be in Shenzhen than Hong Kong today. Shenzhen is where all the excitement has gone- yet to many Hong Kongers, moving there would be utterly unthinkable.
yes, that one party authoritarian rule is really the way to go...ask the dissidents and Falun Gong followers how they like it.
4
No longer a "playground for whites" as one poster put it, and thank the heavens for that. "Expat" status was always an abominable conceit. Yet HK is still a good place to live for foreigners who can demonstrate their worth and pay their way like everyone else. Best wishes to the city, despite the challenges.
8
I don't understand why people are so surprised. The British, a colonial ruler, gave Hong Kong back to China, communist rule. Whenever Britain colonized countries they always stomped on peoples rights. All Communist rule is by nature authoritarian and autocratic. I don't understand why there are still individuals out there who believe communism is best. It's not. And if you think so, spend some time in Cuba, North Korea, Venezuela or China. You will soon find out.
6
Twenty years ago, it was just still possible that the lies and propaganda of the NYTs and the other, similar screed merchants, could; in some vague way, afford themselves the pretense of presenting an accurate presentation of China or its various regions, provinces or cities. Today that is no longer the case. Whatever one sees in Hong Kong; or Taiwan is simply less than China. In fact, it’s no more China, than Mexico City is, Siberia.
Foremost of all; none of these appendages of Western infection or pollution (Taiwan or Hong Kong); is in any way significant to the current and for the seeable destiny of China. China is almost incalculably bigger on its own; and the world’s stage; than these two little places, combined. If they are lesser, today; than they could have been pretended to be, twenty years ago; it is simply because China is so much greater.
And that great Western fantasy, that somehow China either needed, or had a use for Hong Kong or Taiwan, as a “beacon” for illuminating a particular, or possibly; a favorite course of national destiny for them, is only crazy. And the last twenty years has demonstrated, that the Chinese never entertained such a notion; not even for one second.
Foremost of all; none of these appendages of Western infection or pollution (Taiwan or Hong Kong); is in any way significant to the current and for the seeable destiny of China. China is almost incalculably bigger on its own; and the world’s stage; than these two little places, combined. If they are lesser, today; than they could have been pretended to be, twenty years ago; it is simply because China is so much greater.
And that great Western fantasy, that somehow China either needed, or had a use for Hong Kong or Taiwan, as a “beacon” for illuminating a particular, or possibly; a favorite course of national destiny for them, is only crazy. And the last twenty years has demonstrated, that the Chinese never entertained such a notion; not even for one second.
11
Mostly true - but not entirely. Economically the mainland did lean on Taiwan - Hong Kong (and Singapore) to learn and get investment. But yes - faster than anyone thought- they surpassed them. So now indeed there is angst.
4
I see lots of apologists and revisionists posting today, deflecting as well as any Central Committee hack. I wish them well, but no one else need be as deluded, nor expect anyone else to be.
No, Hong Kong was never a democracy. Not the UK's fault I'm afraid. China did not permit it. Never did, never will, in my lifetime. What Hong Kong did have was the rule of law, thanks to the Brits and no one else. Now they have central committee appointees. Is that aspirational?
Leave it to the bought and paid for to say differently. I and everyone else alive at the time lived through it, so please sell Kai Tak airport to some other sucker.
No, Hong Kong was never a democracy. Not the UK's fault I'm afraid. China did not permit it. Never did, never will, in my lifetime. What Hong Kong did have was the rule of law, thanks to the Brits and no one else. Now they have central committee appointees. Is that aspirational?
Leave it to the bought and paid for to say differently. I and everyone else alive at the time lived through it, so please sell Kai Tak airport to some other sucker.
10
Bottom line about this article: Hong Kong now has economic competition from other Chinese cities like Shanghai, Shenzhen, Guangzhou, Beijing, Qingdao and Hangzhou. Shanghai being the biggest competitor for financial, tech and China headquarter jobs.
The same fate will fall upon London with Brexit as Germany and Netherlands spruce up their financial centers now that London with Brexit will no longer act as the middle-man into the EU for the US.
The same fate will fall upon London with Brexit as Germany and Netherlands spruce up their financial centers now that London with Brexit will no longer act as the middle-man into the EU for the US.
46
We have to admit that Hong Kong is a part of China. That is a reality which barely changes at least in a long term. But at the meantime, once China promised "one country, two systems" for British, so China is responsible to deliver its promise that China should hold its power which don't interfere Hong Kong's autonomy. Even though I don't live in Hong Kong, I have a special feeling for Hong Kong because I watched Hong Kong's tv programs in my childhood. I think Hong Kong should preserve its unique culture and juridical system in terms of becoming just a regular big city among China. Hopefully, the 20th handover event would be a peaceful event and a turning point for both Hong Kong and Mainland China.
1
The paradox of Hong Kong is that its key economic role, and in fact the key reason it exists in the first place, is as a gateway for international business, finance, and investment in China, & as a place for money from mainland China to be laundered out of the country, or for Chinese companies to be listed. This was especially true before China embarked on its market reforms. But as China develops, and Shanghai and Beijing have grown or even surpassed Hong Kong, this role is diminished to the point of it being less relevant for China. The balance of whether China needs Hong Kong more than Hong Kong needs China is important. In recent years, this balance has shifted, & China no longer needs Hong Kong as it once did. Yet, it refuses to loosen its grip. HK is still useful in many ways, and politically it would be very risky to let it go its own way.
However, the comparison of Singapore is instructive. In recent years, Singapore has surpassed HK in terms of living standards, housing, economic growth. Its government, while mostly run by one party still has political independence, has the flexibility, freedom, and foresight to pursue policies that benefit it, and attracts business from many countries in Asia, including India, Indonesia, and beyond. Could Hong Kong follow Singapore's lead in being a truly independent city state? Most think this is not realistic, and yet for China's sake, independence might allow financial relationships to continue without the political liability.
However, the comparison of Singapore is instructive. In recent years, Singapore has surpassed HK in terms of living standards, housing, economic growth. Its government, while mostly run by one party still has political independence, has the flexibility, freedom, and foresight to pursue policies that benefit it, and attracts business from many countries in Asia, including India, Indonesia, and beyond. Could Hong Kong follow Singapore's lead in being a truly independent city state? Most think this is not realistic, and yet for China's sake, independence might allow financial relationships to continue without the political liability.
6
What you say is correct (not to be lost is Singapore is also majority ethnic Chinese). But the reason they won't let Hong Kong become independent is similar reason they won't let Taiwan declare. Economically it doesn't "need" Taiwan either. Aside from the historical prestige - it is a national security issue for them. Independence for either almost certainly means US military bases.
2
you nailed it. military base. the same is true with Tibet.
uncle sam's pivot to asia: south china sea and tpp.
uncle sam's pivot to asia: south china sea and tpp.
2
Yes, that's certainly the case. Both Taiwan and HK are extremely important for political/prestige, symbol of righting the wrongs of Wester colonialism, etc. But, I suppose one just wonders in the case of HK how much of a liability to China as a whole it is to "own" HK, in the sense that political problems or the movement in HK could potentially spread to the mainland, at least if conditions there ever deteriorated.
"Many say the fight over Hong Kong’s political future has paralyzed it..."
Yet another NYT article implying the pesky populous demanding civil rights are impeding the elite's ability for economic progress. This falls right in line with coverage of Occupy Wall Street and Bernie Sander's 2016 Democratic primary campaign
Yet another NYT article implying the pesky populous demanding civil rights are impeding the elite's ability for economic progress. This falls right in line with coverage of Occupy Wall Street and Bernie Sander's 2016 Democratic primary campaign
7
As a Chinese, I can fell the anxiety among the new generation in Hong Kong, and also I am so sad that the iconic city is fading away.
However, I do not like the way The New York Times reporting. This article accredits all Hong Kong fading reasons to the government, it is not true!
Historically, Hong Kong was a small fish village, it was not until Mainland China close all its other ports did Hong Kong become the financial center of Asia. Hong Kong is facing the competition with Shanghai. For China, Hong Kong is not centralized enough, for western people, it is not westernized enough, what is Hong Kong's advantage in this competition? Think about it.
It sounds to be cruel, but Hong Kong will not be as important as it was.
However, I do not like the way The New York Times reporting. This article accredits all Hong Kong fading reasons to the government, it is not true!
Historically, Hong Kong was a small fish village, it was not until Mainland China close all its other ports did Hong Kong become the financial center of Asia. Hong Kong is facing the competition with Shanghai. For China, Hong Kong is not centralized enough, for western people, it is not westernized enough, what is Hong Kong's advantage in this competition? Think about it.
It sounds to be cruel, but Hong Kong will not be as important as it was.
11
Hong Kong is no longer be a play ground for the whites, but I have hope
it will reborn as a special Chinese city. I understand there are certain of people don't want to be Chinese or associated with China in any shape or form, but
I'm sure they will find their places somewhere else. Western media like NYT
can badmouth the changes in Hong Kong anyway they want, I can't care less except to ask: Was Hong Kong a pillar of democracy back then?
it will reborn as a special Chinese city. I understand there are certain of people don't want to be Chinese or associated with China in any shape or form, but
I'm sure they will find their places somewhere else. Western media like NYT
can badmouth the changes in Hong Kong anyway they want, I can't care less except to ask: Was Hong Kong a pillar of democracy back then?
13
The way I read the article, ever since the Chinese took over, the city has started to fail. Go ahead and keep your Chinese city the whites will go play somewhere else.
1
Exactly. As Americans more and more go to China, live in China and make Chinese friends - not just English speaking dissidents with a gripe and just seeking a foreign voice- but regular people who struggle daily with societal problems and get them solved through the system that is theirs, then we will get a more balanced view of China. The NYT needs to close the HK office for Bad Mouthing China for good. They have proven time and time again of being incapable of unbiased reporting. It's a real shame!
hong kong was 'window-shopping for democracy' under the british.
A lot of comments here try to oversimplify this complex article into a question of whether Hong Kong was better off under British or Chinese rule. The answer is neither; the people of Hong Kong have suffered from a lack of true democratic rights under both the British and Chinese.
13
Rumours of my demise are greatly exaggerated...
2
When I was in graduate school, 20 years before the handover, I briefly dated a beautiful, shy girl from Hong Kong. She was terrified at the approach of 1997, almost in a panic and, I think, even ready to marry me as a future escape route. In 1994, I visited Hong Kong, staying at the old Hilton, a beautiful hotel that reminded me of the Guggenheim Museum. I fell in love with the city. So vibrant. A wonderful park and aviary in the middle of town. Better than New York. Sam the Tailor made me a suit. I met Joyce Bar Nathan, the BusinessWeek bureau chief. In 1997, I went back to Hong Kong for a few days at the end of a visit to China. At an old Sephardic synagogue, I was called to the bema to chant at the opening of the Torah scroll. The elegant Hilton was gone, which was a shock. Ground was breaking for the new airport. Now it's 20 years since my last visit, and 40 years since I dated a Hong Kong Chinese girl in Bloomington, Indiana. She was so frightened. I wonder what happened to her.
4
Look her up on Facebook. Old friends are only lost if you don't look for them.
2
It's worth remembering that the UK did Hong Kong no favors when it came to developing democratic rule. Hong Kong had very little autonomy under the British. Limited reforms and elections were only begun after the handover process was well underway. Hong Kong had no chance to develop a functional democracy before China took over, and has been unable to create one under the heavy hand of Beijing, to no one's surprise. China is no friend of democracy, but Britain also refused to allow it, and insisted on Hong Kong's subjugation as a territory under colonial rule.
10
but some people still want to live in a fiction that living as a subject of the colonial rule is better. It's pure servility. I feel it awkward that actually it is westerners whose positions are more objective on Hong Kong's history.
2
The western world does democracy best! All Communist countries evolve into a Democracy, if given freedom of choice, and no Democracy ever evolves into a communist nation.
Democracy is the fairest form of government if it is a true democracy. (Not a pseudo democracy like North Korea that calls itself the Democratic Republic of North Korea.)
Democracy is the fairest form of government if it is a true democracy. (Not a pseudo democracy like North Korea that calls itself the Democratic Republic of North Korea.)
1
Communism is a western idea as well you know. The irony is the Chinese "communists" are now ultra capitalists. Capitalism does not mean democracy though. Completely different issues.
3
Plenty of "democratic" nations go authoritarian, and vise-versa. It's a two way street.
The article is incredibly biased.
Hong Kong is a world powerhouse in finance and boasts the second highest real estate prices in the world and such a high degree of wealth because of mainland China not in spite of Mainland China.
Believe it or not, the other extreme, a completely closed off Mainland China from Hong Kong would collapse the city.
No one is debating that there are real problems that need to be figured out and quickly in terms of how to co-exist. But to suggest that the city is in crisis because of Beijing is patently false and irresponsible.
Hong Kong is a world powerhouse in finance and boasts the second highest real estate prices in the world and such a high degree of wealth because of mainland China not in spite of Mainland China.
Believe it or not, the other extreme, a completely closed off Mainland China from Hong Kong would collapse the city.
No one is debating that there are real problems that need to be figured out and quickly in terms of how to co-exist. But to suggest that the city is in crisis because of Beijing is patently false and irresponsible.
21
1. Proprosing that China is in any way responsible for HK's status as a financial center is simply laughable.
2. You talk about a brutal real estate bubble like it's a good thing.
3. Hongkongers want the high degree of autonomy promised them, full stop. The premise of a "completely closed off Mainland China" is a paranoid CPC
scare tactic; even if HK achieved true independence, interaction with China would continue. That's just the way the world works.
4. HK has internal problems (most stemming from the corrupt real estate oligarchy), but the current crisis was generated pretty much entirely by the CPC's fear of its own people. Reflexive paranoia and civic violence are indelible characteristics of authoritarian regimes.
2. You talk about a brutal real estate bubble like it's a good thing.
3. Hongkongers want the high degree of autonomy promised them, full stop. The premise of a "completely closed off Mainland China" is a paranoid CPC
scare tactic; even if HK achieved true independence, interaction with China would continue. That's just the way the world works.
4. HK has internal problems (most stemming from the corrupt real estate oligarchy), but the current crisis was generated pretty much entirely by the CPC's fear of its own people. Reflexive paranoia and civic violence are indelible characteristics of authoritarian regimes.
4
Central control is global disaster. Working government is a spare operating system. Decisions are best made at the local level where problems still have pertinent solutions.
In all of recorded human history, there is only one - ONE! - socialist nation that has succeeded: The next one
In all of recorded human history, there is only one - ONE! - socialist nation that has succeeded: The next one
2
The Chinese Ambassador to the UK, when repeatedly asked on BBC this morning about the state of democracy in Hong Kong now, wanted to know: How many British Governors of Hong Kong during British Rule were elected by the people of Hong Kong?
8
And does anyone care? The Brits gave HKers wealth and prosperity.
3
HK's prosperity has more to do with its geographical location and Brits surely took the advantage of it.
1
At least the governors were top-notched graduates from Oxbridge and they did wonderful job. Now, we have people educated from some bottom-ranked University in North Korea ruling over us. Mind you, the British once tried to introduce democracy to HK after the WWII but China threatened to invade. So, it was not the Brtis but the communists will NEVER give democracy to HK.
3
Hong Kong---once a free capitalistic city---the land of opportunity. Not any longer---no more freedom, run by a corrupt communist system. Our firm no longer does any business there---too many regulations and payoffs.
5
So where is your firm now?
1
In San Diego, selling things to Mexico.
The Chinese Ambassador to the UK was interviewed on BBC this morning and was relentlessly asked about the lack of complete democracy in Hong Kong now. The Ambassador was patient and mildly asked: "How many British Governors of Hong Kong during 100 years of British rule were elected by the people of Hong Kong?
To which I say who cares, unless you live in Hong Kong.
2
Wow. That was really enlightening. If you don't care, don't read.
9
Democracy gone wild will solve all of HK's problems. Sure. :-)
3
Where are the Sikh traffic cops & the 10 cent an hour rickshaws? Hong Kong took over the shipping business from Macao long ago. Macao has been the Monte Carlo of the East for over a hundred years. Seems that the gambling business is a good bet.
3
Except that the casino market in Macao has crashed (ironically, in part because of the Xi regime's crackdown on corruption), although never fear, both Macau and Hong Kong retain their status as money-laundering hubs for mainland elites and gangsters.
1
Hong Kong was never a "model city". An overpopulated, crime-ridden nest of smugglers.
8
Yes but it was ruled by Anglos so it was all good (sarcasm). Yeah not to mention the Asians were treated like second class citizens
8
I absolutely love these photographs. The photographer Him Yik Fyi is to be highily commended. Fantastic! I was recently in Hong Kong and it is one of my ultimate favorite cities to photograph.
6
I agree. Hong Kong is the place to walk with a camera or two and one can immerse oneself in the images, imagined or real. I never lived in Hong Kong. But visited there often enough over a few decades mostly before 1997 but also after 1997. It was even more interesting earlier because of varying 'colonial' hue that can be captured in photographs.
Of course Mr. Xi is a committed authoritarian; can you think of a communist leader in the past, that was not? They can't survive an open, pluralistic society with a free press.
In China there is no time to consider what a billion+ citizens want and there is not democratic underpinnings that would help with an open and freewheeling national conversation. Hong Kong never stood a chance. Many of its affluent citizens immediately moved big chunks of their assets out into the world. Canada became a sanctuary. Just look at the real estate market in Vancouver and Seattle used as a safe haven for the top 1 or 2%.
It has always been the long game for Mainland China. The prized financial connections of Hong Kong and its incredible wealth, a way of underpinning and enriching the communist state.
In China there is no time to consider what a billion+ citizens want and there is not democratic underpinnings that would help with an open and freewheeling national conversation. Hong Kong never stood a chance. Many of its affluent citizens immediately moved big chunks of their assets out into the world. Canada became a sanctuary. Just look at the real estate market in Vancouver and Seattle used as a safe haven for the top 1 or 2%.
It has always been the long game for Mainland China. The prized financial connections of Hong Kong and its incredible wealth, a way of underpinning and enriching the communist state.
2
British colonialism was benign??? Talk about revisionist history!!! In any event - as a few other noted - it is the competition with mainland cities (and citizens moving into HK) since they opened up that is the problem. HK does hold the same favored status anymore. Pining away for the old masters is why neighboring Shenzen has begun to pass HK in many ways (especially technology). I actually find it sad considering until VERY late in the colonial period did the Brits stop treating HK people badly.
1
This is a cautionary tale on several levels--most importantly, that of human scale in a finite space. Think Earth, burgeoning human population and collapsing environment, the warring religious factions, rising authoritarianism conflicting with democratic principles, the rich and powerful perpetuating their brethren's powerlessness, the Goliath capitalists and governments threatening the shrinking life support that is defended passionately by small groups who will need to prove their David, crime and corruption perpetuating more of the same, the competition, the anxiety, the fear, the desire for survival and escape….
Growth cannot be infinite. No survivalist bunker in New Zealand, Kansas, or Texas will save us. And I have to ask: Who would want to "survive" in those conditions? Humans, let's be smarter and compassionate about this. Birth control, lower consumption, steady state economics, "development" over "growth." Happiness is not a $600K parking space or a multi-million dollar bunker with indoor shooting range and equestrian center (aka, short-term meat market when desperation strikes), which seem exquisitely tailored for a modern rendition of Jared Diamond's Collapse.
Thank you NYT for this article. Although your headline likely pointed to political cautionary tales, I think the message is more profound than that. I am not optimistic we will heed, but I have no other acceptable choice than to hope.
Growth cannot be infinite. No survivalist bunker in New Zealand, Kansas, or Texas will save us. And I have to ask: Who would want to "survive" in those conditions? Humans, let's be smarter and compassionate about this. Birth control, lower consumption, steady state economics, "development" over "growth." Happiness is not a $600K parking space or a multi-million dollar bunker with indoor shooting range and equestrian center (aka, short-term meat market when desperation strikes), which seem exquisitely tailored for a modern rendition of Jared Diamond's Collapse.
Thank you NYT for this article. Although your headline likely pointed to political cautionary tales, I think the message is more profound than that. I am not optimistic we will heed, but I have no other acceptable choice than to hope.
4
Growth can be infinite- provided we reset to zero on a regular basis.
Taiwan is the bastion of hope for a free Chinese society.
11
Lungmen Nuclear Power Plant has been under construction for 17 years and who knows how many billion over budget and still not complete. Democracy is leaving its marks.
1
I know what is going to say before I read the article. This said a lot.
I am always amazed how people think HK under UK was a better place. Picture this, stranger take your kid, and you only do business with outside through your kid.
Also picture this, Chinese cross the sea, go to other people homeland, take over a coastal city, rule it over 100 years. Is it evil ? How come UK walk away with all these with so many thanks.
I am always amazed how people think HK under UK was a better place. Picture this, stranger take your kid, and you only do business with outside through your kid.
Also picture this, Chinese cross the sea, go to other people homeland, take over a coastal city, rule it over 100 years. Is it evil ? How come UK walk away with all these with so many thanks.
5
Simple. Inferiority complex. For most of colonial rule they were second class citizens. Now the British were so great. Peculiar also the mainland is blamed for not being as efficient as the Brits - when the mainland is out competing the Brits in everything nowadays.
5
I see lots of apologists and revisionists posting today, deflecting as well as any Central Committee hack. I wish them well, but no one else need be as deluded, nor expect anyone else to be.
No, Hong Kong was never a democracy. Not the UK's fault I'm afraid. China did not permit it. Never did, never will, in my lifetime. What Hong Kong did have was the rule of law, thanks to the Brits and no one else. Now they have central committee appointees. Is that aspirational?
Leave it to the bought and paid for to say differently. I and everyone else alive at the time lived through it, so please sell Kai Tak airport to some other sucker.
No, Hong Kong was never a democracy. Not the UK's fault I'm afraid. China did not permit it. Never did, never will, in my lifetime. What Hong Kong did have was the rule of law, thanks to the Brits and no one else. Now they have central committee appointees. Is that aspirational?
Leave it to the bought and paid for to say differently. I and everyone else alive at the time lived through it, so please sell Kai Tak airport to some other sucker.
2
Say what you will but the Brits were great administrators. HK Govt learned a lot from the british. They weren't "nice" but they were not corrupt. Under the brits, we had the opportunity to become a prosperous city.
The people of HK benefited from the city being a colony. At least, it was the better alternative than living in communist China.
The people of HK benefited from the city being a colony. At least, it was the better alternative than living in communist China.
3
The article is overblown and a typical example of western self-righteousness and hypocrisy. The British ruled HK as a colony and had imposed absolute imperial control over the Island implemented through civil service, police force and a bunch of high paid useless expatriates treating locals as their colonial servitude.
HK is thriving over the 20 years I have been travelling to HK, it is a richer and more prosperous city by any standard of measure. The unproven innuendos and speculative contextualizing if completely false and one-sided reporting.
HK is thriving over the 20 years I have been travelling to HK, it is a richer and more prosperous city by any standard of measure. The unproven innuendos and speculative contextualizing if completely false and one-sided reporting.
11
When it comes to China never look for unbiased reporting in the NYT.
3
My family and I are from HK. I have lived there for most my life. HK's golden age started from the 80s with the brits. Most HKers prefer the british.
Ironically, your marxist argument is the insensitive and "self-righteous" one. Sure,HK was a british colony and they ruled HK as imperialists but that rule was meritocratic. Now, the city is run by sycophants who put authoritarian interests of China ahead of the local people. This level of cronyism is something that never happened under the british.
All of us in HK know how bad corruption is in China, we fear that the one thing that made HK great - it's capitalist values - will mutate into crony capitalism we see in China.
It's sad. It's very very sad.
Ironically, your marxist argument is the insensitive and "self-righteous" one. Sure,HK was a british colony and they ruled HK as imperialists but that rule was meritocratic. Now, the city is run by sycophants who put authoritarian interests of China ahead of the local people. This level of cronyism is something that never happened under the british.
All of us in HK know how bad corruption is in China, we fear that the one thing that made HK great - it's capitalist values - will mutate into crony capitalism we see in China.
It's sad. It's very very sad.
6
So, is someone at last admitting, at least in an indirect backhanded manner, that meritocracy is superior to democracy? Or are people still confusing competence with popularity?
Sad. But this just reinforces the idea that the USA is the shining light in a sea filled with dictators, autocrats, and criminal enterprises. And when we look in the mirror we see Trump, but what has Trump accomplished?
3
shining light of the incoming tomahawk or cluster bombs?
care to ask the orphans, widows, maimed, wounded, or the dead whether they prefer Saddam Hussein, Khaddafi, Assad, or Uncle Sam?
care to ask the orphans, widows, maimed, wounded, or the dead whether they prefer Saddam Hussein, Khaddafi, Assad, or Uncle Sam?
You can almost see the flop sweat forming on the NYT executives and editors as they strive to manage their coverage of China directing their editors and reporters to ensure the right geo politically useful "narrative" on China continues to be put out. This piece is a perfect example. It's unbalanced, uninformed, and highly selective but precisely because of this it achieves its purpose which is not so much to inform its readers about the current political situation in Hong Kong and China in a balanced and informative way but rather to continue the NYT drumbeat of "China - bad". So while this piece and all the others like it are great if you want your daily NYT dose of "bad China". Those who really want to be informed in a somewhat balanced way of what is happening in Hong Kong and China should look to the South China Morning Post and other Asian papers as a necessary counter balance to the NYT's constant China derangement syndrome. They say the further you are from a place the easier it is to be an expert. The NYT's own little "Pacific Pivot" in its coverage to cheerlead US geopolitical interests and increase domestic support for ongoing and upcoming meddling in Asia is proving that in spades.
18
The Times' reporting on China is at times shallow. In this article, for instance, the author notes the high-speed rail delays as an indicator of Hong Kong's declining mojo. In fact, though, this rail link is and always was a Beijing initiative, part of the CPC's strategy of tying HK to the mainland's Borg-like tractor beam. Hongkongers are less tan thrilled that their tax dollars are going down the rathole of this white elephant (then there's the Zhuhai bridge to nowhere...).
But to propose that readers should turn to the South China Morning Post for a fresh, unbiased perspective is at best naive and at worst disingenuous. The Post has had pro-Beijing ownership for some time, with an exclamation point added through the paper's purchase by Alibaba's Jack Ma. Mr. Ma is what passes for an indpendent entrepreneur in China, meaning that his wealth and economic clout are always contingent on the approval of the Communist Party of China.
But to propose that readers should turn to the South China Morning Post for a fresh, unbiased perspective is at best naive and at worst disingenuous. The Post has had pro-Beijing ownership for some time, with an exclamation point added through the paper's purchase by Alibaba's Jack Ma. Mr. Ma is what passes for an indpendent entrepreneur in China, meaning that his wealth and economic clout are always contingent on the approval of the Communist Party of China.
3
The South China Morning Post is now owned by Beijing. The commentary there has changed significantly over the last few years. It can no longer be assumed to present balanced views of Hong Kong.
HK natives I have talked to support quite a bit.
If you are going to talk about media bias, isn't it fair to mention South China Morning Post's new ownership's connections to Beijing authorities?
If you are going to talk about media bias, isn't it fair to mention South China Morning Post's new ownership's connections to Beijing authorities?
1
I love Hong Kong. Though I haven't been there since 2010, I still hold it in my heart as everything a city should be--cosmopolitan, beautiful, and easy to get around, with lovely green spaces offering respite from high rises and concrete. Its flaws, as detailed in this article, are real, and immiserate the lives of some of its residents, even as it offers so much to others in that complex way cities do.
But lest one slip too easily into bemoaning Chinese rule and praising the Brits for all the infrastructure they put in, we ought to acknowledge that under the British Hong Kong was in many ways a site of unbridled capitalism, with all its attending perils. I lived on the mainland in the 1980s, and watched in horror as unregulated hotel/apartment houses went up in flames, their residents trapped without fire escapes. So, the Brits were good about order in some arenas, but by no means all.
But lest one slip too easily into bemoaning Chinese rule and praising the Brits for all the infrastructure they put in, we ought to acknowledge that under the British Hong Kong was in many ways a site of unbridled capitalism, with all its attending perils. I lived on the mainland in the 1980s, and watched in horror as unregulated hotel/apartment houses went up in flames, their residents trapped without fire escapes. So, the Brits were good about order in some arenas, but by no means all.
29
I don't understand your point about investment under the British vs now. HK has changed, but, apart from sovereignty, the changes are mostly steady and incremental, and there is plenty of investment in infrastructure. Just in the XRL express link project alone, there is twice the length of the 2nd avenue subway, and most of it is tunnels. HK is also building two new subway lines, one already complete and has extended other lines. There is a 6-lane 30km bridge under construction across the Pearl River Delta, and a new (third) runway for the airport. All of this and with a financial surplus. I think you don't have the full picture.
1
There is a historical, cultural and political gap between the Chinese central government and Hong Kong. The former did not know how to handle Hong Kong in 1997 and they still do not understand Hong Kong that well. They didn't want to lord over Hong Kong like the British did but they are disappointed with the lack of development in Hong Kong, to say the least.
For Hong Kong's part, 1997 was a shock, perhaps too soon. People have been having a hard time adjusting to the concept of One Country, Two Systems.
I wonder if things would have been different if the handover had not happened in 1997, but in 2007 or even today in 2017, with a more professional and confident Chinese government, and with Hong Kong people having gotten used to the ascent of China...
For Hong Kong's part, 1997 was a shock, perhaps too soon. People have been having a hard time adjusting to the concept of One Country, Two Systems.
I wonder if things would have been different if the handover had not happened in 1997, but in 2007 or even today in 2017, with a more professional and confident Chinese government, and with Hong Kong people having gotten used to the ascent of China...
5
This exploration of Hong Kong's complex position fails in the way that so many other news articles have. The British built this, Beijing is ruining that - you have taken away the autonomy Hong Kong citizens, portraying them as if they are only to be blown about by the West's or China's wind. Maybe that it is the point of this article, that Hong Kong is helpless in the shadow of the superpowers. But I disagree. It is through their perceptiveness and determination that they have reconciled their clash of cultures and histories to carve out a unique position in the world that is admired by most. Sure it has no world class museums but many are envious of the sort of vibrancy the city exudes that can only be created when traditional dried goods stores stand next to new tapas bars like its been that way forever. Hong Kong absorbs and changes but it never looses its distinctness. Democracy might be in peril, but never underestimate those that are fiercely proud of what they've build despite knocked down by others.
It was only a few weeks ago that the NYT had an article about Hong Kong titled 'Living the Hong Kong Dream' with the description "Ranked as the world’s freest economy, Hong Kong is an entrepreneurial boomtown, standing tall alongside the world metropolises of New York and London. With its global status, common law legal system and business-friendly economy, this success story is now primed for new waves of opportunity."
I'm far from being an expert on China/Hong Kong politics but this article is so flawed with contradictions and confusing arguments. For example, their educational testing system existed for many decades and way before Beijing came on the scene. Also, the high cost of housing has been around since the 1960s when the British ruled the island.
I'm far from being an expert on China/Hong Kong politics but this article is so flawed with contradictions and confusing arguments. For example, their educational testing system existed for many decades and way before Beijing came on the scene. Also, the high cost of housing has been around since the 1960s when the British ruled the island.
8
If you look at photos of the ceremony as Hong Kong was handed back, the British look a bit befuddled and shocked; the Chinese bored and patient. 100 years means very different things to a 1000-year-old versus 5000 year old civilization.
The differences are more glaring if we compare how various first world leaders are preparing their citizens for the next 100 years.
The differences are more glaring if we compare how various first world leaders are preparing their citizens for the next 100 years.
2
I have the utmost respect for the quality of journalism in NYT., but this article's portrait of Hong Kong is unfair, misleading and biased.
First some fact check:
1. Hong Kong always had a housing shortage problem since the 60s. There was a real estate bubble leading up to the handover in 1997 when the British constrained land supply.
2. Taiwan is not flourishing. It is being cornered by China diplomatically and struggling economically to become a developed economy. If you want to move from New York to Cincinnati, that is your choice.
3. The British spent 20 billion USD to build an airport and it was a disaster when it first opened in 1998. They left and we picked up the mess.
The fact that so many initiatives are being stalled show there is strong oversight over the local government. And would Beijing have tolerated if this happened in a mainland city? Definitely not.
The mix of an autocratic chief executive branch and a filibuster legislature is clearly creating a gridlock. However, this city is not fading. The economy, civil society and no-nonsense Hong Kong culture have never been so vibrant and strong.
I would hope your reporting is more balanced in highlighting how Hong Kong is still THE melting pot of Asia, because it ain't Singapore, Tokyo, Shanghai or Mumbai.
First some fact check:
1. Hong Kong always had a housing shortage problem since the 60s. There was a real estate bubble leading up to the handover in 1997 when the British constrained land supply.
2. Taiwan is not flourishing. It is being cornered by China diplomatically and struggling economically to become a developed economy. If you want to move from New York to Cincinnati, that is your choice.
3. The British spent 20 billion USD to build an airport and it was a disaster when it first opened in 1998. They left and we picked up the mess.
The fact that so many initiatives are being stalled show there is strong oversight over the local government. And would Beijing have tolerated if this happened in a mainland city? Definitely not.
The mix of an autocratic chief executive branch and a filibuster legislature is clearly creating a gridlock. However, this city is not fading. The economy, civil society and no-nonsense Hong Kong culture have never been so vibrant and strong.
I would hope your reporting is more balanced in highlighting how Hong Kong is still THE melting pot of Asia, because it ain't Singapore, Tokyo, Shanghai or Mumbai.
9
The GDP (PPP) of Hong Kong is $430 billion and of Taiwan is $1.2 trillion. Which is the New York and which is the Cincinnati in your analogy?
3
the british built the airport in order to drain the hong kong treasury before they handed it to the Chinese.
the hsbc building was overpriced to increase their tax write off.
the hsbc building was overpriced to increase their tax write off.
6
China took over HK in a clever way - by bribing its rich and through the gradual dismantling of personal freedoms. Now it is up to ordinary people to decide whether staying quiet is worth joining the communist paradise and its perks - pollution, corruption, suppression of ethnic minorities and absence of human rights.
3
Huh? What? Hong Kong was China until the Brits invaded and took. Communist Party or not - it belonged to China. It was given back by treaty (because the Brits learned like Americans that holding territory all over the place is draining). Not by bribery nor force. In many ways - the mainland has been propping up HK since the handover as other Chinese cities take away a lot of its importance.
Overpopulation, Environmentalism, historic landowners rights, speculative "foreign" investors, housing shortage, unfinished Infrastructure projects, etc. Sounds like most any major city in America. The problem doesn't seem to me to be the Communist Party Government supporters or the HK Democracy Government supporters but rather just the Government supporters in general. Its either "democratic" chaos or authoritarian rule. The British model only worked as a business oriented model with "benign" authoritarian rule (at least for the British) because at the time it was the dominant power. That type of Imperialism is now frowned upon (unless of course its China, Venezuela, or Cuba etc doing it to their own citizens....). Neither statism (China is neither a communist country nor a republic , just another oligarchical dictatorship) nor populist democracy are effective (or desirable) forms of governance to get things done on their own while maintaining individual freedoms, yet that is what HK has both of. I wish them well in balancing the two.
1
The real problem in Hong Kong is not a political one. During the British ruling, no one cared about politics and people did not ask for a general election to choose the governor. Life was good back then and anyone who had a stable income can afford housing. Not anymore now. Even a university grad with a decent job can't afford housing, let alone the working class young people. Income disparity makes the problem worse. You can have a meal for less than $4 or more than $100 within a block. When young people don't see the future, they go to the street. Very simple.
6
All cities are perpetually in trouble, many in precisely the same ways as those Hong Kong is described as suffering. See "Seattle process," for example. See housing crises in Auckland, Vancouver, Sydney, NYC, elsewhere. Let's guess that there are quite a few cities that would happily places with Hong Kong, which has fantastic transit with farebox recovery above unity rather than the below .3 for a limited and creaky system that's typical for North America. Having said that, we get that a crisis gets the pageviews. Bradsher is a fantastic journalist and the article is both well-written and beautifully presented - thanks for that.
1
The article assumes throughout that democracy is a better form of government, and uses that as a measurement of Hong Kong's alleged decline. No explanation is given, nor any reason why democracy is desirable.
A less conceited view:
Democracy is strictly a product of western culture, unsuited for non-western cultures. I'd argue it doesn't work for the west either. Rule by popular opinion is not enlightened. Systemic political partisanship is not enlightened. Egalitarianism, in any form, is profoundly ignorant of human differences and values. Hierarchy -- what you call bigotry -- is what I call social justice.
The west succeeds despite democracy, not because of it. Without the violent plunder of colonialism and a technological head start, the west would not have half of what it does today, democracy or not. Without the relatively unified, hierarchical and undemocratic social structures of the west's recent past, it would not have advanced to this stage.
From a global perspective, democracy's record is not any better than autocracy. In some places, it's much worse. The non-west has every right to reject democracy, as well as any western value that comes with it, without being talked down to.
Hong Kong was not a true democracy under British rule. Land issues and coffin apartments were problems before the handoff, and is only worsening now because space is running out. Demographic changes are admittedly an issue, but unrelated to political systems.
A less conceited view:
Democracy is strictly a product of western culture, unsuited for non-western cultures. I'd argue it doesn't work for the west either. Rule by popular opinion is not enlightened. Systemic political partisanship is not enlightened. Egalitarianism, in any form, is profoundly ignorant of human differences and values. Hierarchy -- what you call bigotry -- is what I call social justice.
The west succeeds despite democracy, not because of it. Without the violent plunder of colonialism and a technological head start, the west would not have half of what it does today, democracy or not. Without the relatively unified, hierarchical and undemocratic social structures of the west's recent past, it would not have advanced to this stage.
From a global perspective, democracy's record is not any better than autocracy. In some places, it's much worse. The non-west has every right to reject democracy, as well as any western value that comes with it, without being talked down to.
Hong Kong was not a true democracy under British rule. Land issues and coffin apartments were problems before the handoff, and is only worsening now because space is running out. Demographic changes are admittedly an issue, but unrelated to political systems.
11
I have elsewhere explained why I feel the view of HK democracy in this article misses the full picture, but your points seem skewed in the opposite direction. There is democracy in Hong Kong, even if it doesn't look exactly like that in the US. There is no reason to assume that some form of democracy should not work in Asia, and your comments border on the paternalistic side as well, just in the opposite direction. Let's hope that the politicians can get their act together in HK (just as they need to in the US...).
1
Explain the success of post-war Japan, then, if democracy is a "western" conceit unsuited for non-western culture.
1
@John
Japan was quite successful before WW2 and Japan is one party rule for most it's post-WW2 era. Same for Taiwan, S Korea and Singapore.
Japan was quite successful before WW2 and Japan is one party rule for most it's post-WW2 era. Same for Taiwan, S Korea and Singapore.
3
The situation in Hong Kong is unfortunate and one that is not easily resolved, especially when democratic agitators are opposed by a regime that is decidedly authoritarian and sees democracy as a real and existential threat.
I would caution against the prospect of comparing Hong Kong's situation of political deadlock with that of the United States. There are two very different historical and political contexts that frame political problems in Hong Kong and the United States.
Dysfunction within the U.S. system is symptomatic of partisanship and a failure of political leaders to view and convince the electorate that compromise is necessary for effective governance. If leaders compromised across the aisle to address major problems, would voters have run to the extremes of alt-right and illiberal policies?
In Hong Kong, however, there is no recourse for pro-democracy leaders and supporters. The specter of arbitrary imprisonment or other forms of reprisal are real and deadly. In the USA, the opposition is guaranteed rights and protected by law. That is not the case in Hong Kong.
Hubris, a failure to listen, and a disregard for facts and truth define the political rancor in the USA. A real fear of lost political rights, perpetual loss of opportunity, and oppression from an authoritarian government frame and fuel the fight for more political freedom in Hong Kong.
I, for one, will not equate one to the other.
I would caution against the prospect of comparing Hong Kong's situation of political deadlock with that of the United States. There are two very different historical and political contexts that frame political problems in Hong Kong and the United States.
Dysfunction within the U.S. system is symptomatic of partisanship and a failure of political leaders to view and convince the electorate that compromise is necessary for effective governance. If leaders compromised across the aisle to address major problems, would voters have run to the extremes of alt-right and illiberal policies?
In Hong Kong, however, there is no recourse for pro-democracy leaders and supporters. The specter of arbitrary imprisonment or other forms of reprisal are real and deadly. In the USA, the opposition is guaranteed rights and protected by law. That is not the case in Hong Kong.
Hubris, a failure to listen, and a disregard for facts and truth define the political rancor in the USA. A real fear of lost political rights, perpetual loss of opportunity, and oppression from an authoritarian government frame and fuel the fight for more political freedom in Hong Kong.
I, for one, will not equate one to the other.
1
I don't think your picture is all that accurate. It is true that Beijing could step in, but it is clear that they would rather let HK sort itself out within the fairly broad freedom that it has to do its own thing. And recent events in the US have given us all pause for thought about the stability of government there. Hubris indeed.
2
The Liaison office of CCP is overseeing everything in HK including all the rigged legco elections. The HK government is a puppet government that afraid to do anything against the will of the CCP. Do you think Carrie Lan would win the last election without the strong arms from CCP?
I would have to do more research on the mechanisms of HK governance to fully flesh out how involved the Chinese government is in the day-to-day management and major decision making of HK. However, I based my comments on the information presented in this article, which presents the people of HK as wary of and resistant to the Communist Party's intervention and rule by fiat. I think that the Communist Party's hand in elections and who makes decisions in HK sends a message that they are not willing to let the city sort itself out. The article presents such as "sorting" as falling on the side of more democratic structures in the government, which is not in the Communist Party's favor. Thanks for your comment, too.
Just want to point out one aspect: before the economic reforms on mainland and the opening of the country, Hong Kong was the golden gateway to a gigantic but dormant market. In addition, during and after the civil war, huge numbers of rich and educated mainlanders from metropolis such as Shanghai fled to Hong Kong. Hong Kong thrived in the 1960s and 70s because of such influx of talent and capital, and its geopolitical significance as the financial, shipping, and insurance center midway between Singapore and Japan, not just because of British rule or democracy. After PRC thawed its economy, Shanghai, what was once Paris of the east, a city much more powerful in the past than Hong Kong was before WWII and civil war destroyed its infrastructure and significance, revived and begin to capture Hong Kong's share in the global market. It has access to deep water harbor, enormous mechanized agriculture based on the Yangtze Delta, complete industrial setup, and is only short of investment to revive its service, finance, and insurance industry.
To blame everything on an evil tyrant is all too easy, which may hinder us from observing the larger picture and finding an actual, meaningful solution. I don't have much of an expert's insight as an outsider, but the whole "commie PRC bad, British and democracy good, want good o' times" nostalgia is certainly not very helpful.
To blame everything on an evil tyrant is all too easy, which may hinder us from observing the larger picture and finding an actual, meaningful solution. I don't have much of an expert's insight as an outsider, but the whole "commie PRC bad, British and democracy good, want good o' times" nostalgia is certainly not very helpful.
9
Actually you summed it up perfectly. Though it's not just Shanghai. Shenzen and Guangzhou - its neighbors in the Pearl River Delta - are also taking some of its prominence.
5
A discussion of Hong Kong - China politics and no mention that one of the driving forces behind Hong Kong's hard feelings toward the mainland and HK's almost inevitable decline is the reversal of roles that occurred in the past 30 years? HK's special position and status as one of the world's great environments for buccaneering business from shoving unwanted UK opium into China right up to acting as the Asian headquarters for international financial finagling rested largely on its status as the "window" to China; a place where British rule of law and gunships protected businesses interests. Hong Kong was never even a partial democracy during British rule and the only steps in that direction were done under the Chinese during the past 20 years. What also crucially happened during that period is that HK's coveted status as a window into China became less and less an advantage as China itself opened up. The special status Hong Kongers had as middle men has been removed. The Cantonese in HK used to see themselves as the urban sophisticated rich ones and the Mandarin speaking population in the mainland as their rustic country cousins. Well, the tables turned and now the people from the mainland have the money and the power which has instigated an awful lot of very ugly tribalism including vicious attacks on mainland visitors and arrivals from the previous top dog Cantonese. They call them locusts. This "tribalism" is referred to as "localism" by anti-mainland HK politicians.
8
“More and more, there is a sense of futility,”
Sounds like an American to me.
Sounds like an American to me.
Hong Kong's uncertain future is no news to the wave of emigrants who left Hong Kong prior to 1997 for Canada, Australia, NZ and the US, spurred on by fears of China's heavy hand. One must remember that many Hong Kong residents descended from those who had fled Mao, and so the fears born of that memory pushed many of those who had the means, to anticipate the worst. If anything China's (ahem) "light touch" has been the surprise for them, as much as the rise of the other coastal mainland economic juggernaughts. Though some have returned in the interim, I suspect most remained in their new homelands with few existential regrets .
31
This is what people feared with the changeover. Looks like all those folks who fled to Vancouver were pretty smart. It's just a slow motion take over.
52
The ones who left knew this would happen. The writing was on the wall.
1
"There has also been a generational shift in the pro-democracy camp. Voters have replaced older, more pragmatic politicians with younger candidates more stridently opposed to the Communist authorities and willing to engage in all-out resistance." - I can't help but wonder what OUR younger generation is thinking when they walk around with "CHE" t-shirts, after the hard Left here has sold them on the complete opposite idea: Socialism and Communism are the best thing since sliced bread. Papa (or Mama) government is here to give you everything, and someone else is going to pay for it. Never mind that the Chinese have HAD to resort to the implementation of Capitalistic ideas to be able to bring their country forward. With 594 Chinese billionaires (more than the U.S.) as of last year, our new generation of Leftists should ask themselves if they had been sold crap wrapped in gold foil.
8
The story in the US is the polar opposite, so the comparison is specious. Or is it? Until the Occupy movement, born in Vancouver, BC, the U.S. was awash in its own self promotional propaganda which denied yhe reality : US oligarchs are little different from the Chinese version, in that they have bought and paid for a political system skewed to their interests. Only the assets of US oligarchs are far more secure... prompting Chinese to park their money in the US.And so the wheel turns, a Full circle.
"Leftists" nor anyone with a brain in their head aren't going back to the "job creator" myth anytime soon. The bigger question is how the rest manage to live with their own contradictions?
"Leftists" nor anyone with a brain in their head aren't going back to the "job creator" myth anytime soon. The bigger question is how the rest manage to live with their own contradictions?
3
Chinese billionaires = 1 in 2,255,892
US billionaires = 1 in 581,495
The per capita difference tells a different story than your numbers.
US billionaires = 1 in 581,495
The per capita difference tells a different story than your numbers.
1
Kate, really? The question should be "What are 594 billionaires and the second largest number of millionaires in the World doing in a country that massacred Millions during the cultural revolution; all in the name of Communism; a system that is, supposedly, the private profit motive's number one enemy?"
1
i like and welcome the article. but like nearly everything from yemen to current euro poltics (especially macronomics) the nytimes is past it's sell-by date.
hong kong was never more than a stop over at the peninsula and a night at the race track before getting smashed with banned City traders who couldnt trade their way out of a paper bag when on your way to sydney.
singapore only offers a grand prix circuit and an on-the-spot $2,500 fine for people dropping gum in it's favour.
macau was dead by the late '70s, it was just a casino; hong kong dead by '87 so it was done and dusted as far as the british were concerned.
the only pleasure left was the excitement of the landing at kai tak airport as you waved to residents in tower blocks hanging out the laundry whilst the pilot had to negotiate one of the shortest landings for a 747.
smile and cherish the memories
hong kong was never more than a stop over at the peninsula and a night at the race track before getting smashed with banned City traders who couldnt trade their way out of a paper bag when on your way to sydney.
singapore only offers a grand prix circuit and an on-the-spot $2,500 fine for people dropping gum in it's favour.
macau was dead by the late '70s, it was just a casino; hong kong dead by '87 so it was done and dusted as far as the british were concerned.
the only pleasure left was the excitement of the landing at kai tak airport as you waved to residents in tower blocks hanging out the laundry whilst the pilot had to negotiate one of the shortest landings for a 747.
smile and cherish the memories
14
I remember the 1997 handover quite well and what a massive party it was. Many people from all over the world flew in to celebrate the return to Chinese rule and the end of the British Empire. At the time everyone was thrilled with how China was opening up and thought this is the real deal. All our leading prognosticators said that a totalitarian state cannot exist with a market economy, and in a very short time China would have new freedoms. Similar arguments were made when they awarded Beijing the Olympics.
Now we have learned a bitter truth. Not only only can dictatorships have market economies, but that seems to be the growing consensus in much of the world as the best way. China has grown massively since 1997 and now Hong Kong is fairly inconsequential to them, allowing them to tighten the screws rather than grant freedoms. Sadly, from FDR at Yalta to all the China boosters in the 1990s, there is always an idea that Communists will become benign Social Democrats if only they are enticed correctly. But the tiger never changes its stripes.
Now we have learned a bitter truth. Not only only can dictatorships have market economies, but that seems to be the growing consensus in much of the world as the best way. China has grown massively since 1997 and now Hong Kong is fairly inconsequential to them, allowing them to tighten the screws rather than grant freedoms. Sadly, from FDR at Yalta to all the China boosters in the 1990s, there is always an idea that Communists will become benign Social Democrats if only they are enticed correctly. But the tiger never changes its stripes.
82
China isn't communist, it is communist in name only. China is being China, the longest continuous imperial and by far the most successful power the world has ever seen. Unlike Rome, Ottoman, Spanish, British, China always reinvent itself every couple hundred years and maintain its position in the pecking order.
The best way to describe China is Confucianism or simply father-knows-best.
The best way to describe China is Confucianism or simply father-knows-best.
4
There were more than a few people who saw it coming and, where opportunities presented itself, fled for the US, Canada, Australia, UK, and other places oversea.
1
I don't understand why ppl take British ruled hk as role model. It was a colony with no right to vote, right? Hk is loosing its special status because China opens up. It used to be the only city connecting China with the western world yet not anymore. Beijing, Shanghai and Guangzhou are the new alternatives. Former Singapore president Lee kuan yew famously said in 1997 that 50yrs later hk is gonna be no different from other Chinese coastal cities.
13
What a mistake to assume that China will emulates our way of blending the east and the west. President Nixon made more mistakes than we know.
7
why we normalized relation with Myanmar, viet-nam, laos? allied with india? to contain/encircle china.
the same reason we admitted the former soviet bloc into nato. to encircle Russia and have the missiles right at their doorstep. they are more than willing to play along as long as we pay the bulk of the bills.
the same reason we admitted the former soviet bloc into nato. to encircle Russia and have the missiles right at their doorstep. they are more than willing to play along as long as we pay the bulk of the bills.
1
The Hong Kong residents who were apprehensive about the end of British rule were correct. It seems there is something to be said for British efficiency and organization. Watching China emasculate this once great city is just plain sad. What a waste.
23
Who has done better in the last 20 years? UK or China? Yeah, tons of people made the wrong pick and now are whinnying about it.
Wanna make a bet on 2037 EU vs China?
Wanna make a bet on 2037 EU vs China?
3
I'll take that bet. In fact, I have.
1
In the eyes of Beijing, autonomous HK is a ticking time bomb. If the Chinese government has learned anything from the oppositions in the past, it is that any sign of the demand for democracy should be nipped in the bud. The chaos and incoherent leadership HK is facing are the results of deliberate sabotage from the very man who claims his affection of HK.
3
Political disruption by anti-Beijing interests is plainly harming development and impeding problem-solving in Hong Kong. Foreign political control was returned to China but foreign investors and foreign governments remain deeply entrenched there. China has proceeded, as she always does, very cautiously, playing the long game. Meanwhile, Hong Kong's special role as portal into China has vanished; Shanghai usurped it. An analogue would be the very rich and important city of Liverpool which grew fat on slaving, sugar, tobacco and cotton, then declined into a giant slum after world war 2 because its historic role connecting England to America vanished with technological and political change. Singapore is now the shipping hub and Shanghai is the Chinese gateway, leaving Hong Kong feasting on past glory, a far eastern (albeit much more prosperous) Liverpool. It remains, however, the place with the greatest life expectancy and lowest infant mortality in the world, so Hong Kong has a very long way to fall before it matches America, let alone Liverpool. It's worth noting many refugees from the political transfer who fled to Vancouver, Canada, have returned to Hong Kong because it's still easier to make money there than in North America.
15
Now the mainlanders are richer than native Hong Kongers, and hoards of
them flocked to HK on shopping sprees and buying up properties. The
only superiority left for HK is the systems and the memory of British rule.
I don't think HK really care about democracy, which it never had under the British, what it cares about is to be different (better than) from the Chinese.
them flocked to HK on shopping sprees and buying up properties. The
only superiority left for HK is the systems and the memory of British rule.
I don't think HK really care about democracy, which it never had under the British, what it cares about is to be different (better than) from the Chinese.
12
Justice and the rule of law as the western tradition does not hold water. The West practiced imperialism and monarchy as long as the East and the Nazism and Fascism all originated from the West recently. I see it as a universal human value rather than Western one.
Conflating the inherently human value and western one can only exacerbate the white supremacy going on in Hong Kong and China (mostly practiced by Chinese) that worships anything and everything Western. Just look at how they go gaga over Ivanka Trump, a white Blonde woman peddling Western designer goods. Conversely it can also inflame the false Chinese nationalism that rejects Democracy and rule of law as a Western thing. Only when people accept justice as a human value they'll strike the right balance of just politics and identity.
Conflating the inherently human value and western one can only exacerbate the white supremacy going on in Hong Kong and China (mostly practiced by Chinese) that worships anything and everything Western. Just look at how they go gaga over Ivanka Trump, a white Blonde woman peddling Western designer goods. Conversely it can also inflame the false Chinese nationalism that rejects Democracy and rule of law as a Western thing. Only when people accept justice as a human value they'll strike the right balance of just politics and identity.
3
Hong Kong is indeed a remarkable place and vibrant when I last visited. What scares the Beijing about it, I wonder? Perhaps the thought that its now limited model of democracy might spread.
6
The stresses well described but for the tourists a graceful entry to China and with the bridges and tunnels connecting Hong Kong to Macau and Zhuhai scheduled to open this year it takes on the attributes of a metropolitan area offering diversified options that could inject vigor for those who stay and look for new opportunities. Hong Kong will be all right.
4
Dear Taiwan,
You have been warned.
You have been warned.
12
They've been watching.
Within 30 years Taiwan will beg to reunite with mainland. Money talks and Shanghai is already wealthier than Taiwan.
1
The money worshiping Chinese are destroying what vestiges of HK that are left. Museums? Naw, it is ALL about the money. Always has been, always will be. Those who live here know one thing, money matters. That is it, nothing else.
It is a serious dog eat dog society. Fiercely competitive and ruthless. Greed rules. Similar to what is happening in many of our North American cities. It is both entirely gauche and gross.
It is a serious dog eat dog society. Fiercely competitive and ruthless. Greed rules. Similar to what is happening in many of our North American cities. It is both entirely gauche and gross.
30
Don't even know why Hong Kong needs a museum. It was a fishing village and the only history there are just the city's history. It doesn't need a Met, Louvre, British, Hermitage, Palace, it only needs a city museum.
2
I guess all the social. economic and political problems HK are experiencing now have nothing to do with colonialism.
2
Since things worked better then, according to the article, I would say so.
Many problems the article discussed are the extension and complication of issues that had been brewing for over 100 years during colonial times. It is disappointing that the article fails to present a more comprehensive historical context of HK.
Its simple. You cannot trust communist oligarchs keep their word.
4
A cautionary tale, indeed. But will the correct lesson be learned? Namely, that the more government obstructs commerce and trade, and insinuates itself into the affairs of free people, the more it is an impediment to peace and prosperity.
3
No, the lesson is that a dogmatic application of any philosophy about how to govern will cause problems.
That includes free market hogwash. Everything in moderation.
That includes free market hogwash. Everything in moderation.
2
Any assurances of Independence were always a lie. China is a patient country that's in it for the long haul; it will gradually integrate HK as another mainland city. And one suspects China would prefer that Shanghai, not Hong Kong, be its financial center.
5
Hong Kong, South China Sea, Taiwan, in that order, if we live long enough, will be absorbed into the new superpower, China. It's just a matter of time.
3
Funny how the British empire's dictatorship is now reinterpreted. But mainly this article made me think of Seattle, which has similar problems, and a similar relationship to (admittedly, elected) the state and national government.
4
Let this be an abject lesson for Taiwan as well. China will not stop pushing for total and complete subservience of all fringe countries/municipalities/etc. Taiwan, Hong Kong, Macau and maybe even Singapore are all in danger of losing their independence to the monster that is Mainland China. This is a direct result of disengaged foreign policy for the last 30 years on our part. Hopefully Trump can bring Beijing back into line somewhat, but I fear it is already too late and that some kind of extended military conflict is coming.
3
The problems described in this article seem interchangeable with those of America, (as a matter of fact I thought I was looking at the 30 Stockton Bus in San Francisco when it actually was a Hong Kong subway), the cost of living, the inequality, the corruption, the years and cost overruns it takes to get something, Transbay tube, the big dig, compared with the efficiency of mainland China and the tendency to deal swiftly with corruption, a quick trial, a bullet to the back of the head, yes we could learn much from the Chinese. To those of us who have not visited China the pictures should speak, no scream, volumes, the sheer number of Chinese, their ruthless brand of capitalism, their tenacity, and the governments, "China First", behavior in all things(no feigned human rights concerns here, do what's best for China and let other people take care of their own problems). It should be clear to us that Americas century is over, what we have not given away we have allowed corrupt special interests to steal. We have continued to give our technology to China to allow big paydays for C.E.O.S when engaging in M. and A. Activities, we have permitted our middle class to wither and die as Chinas has exploded. Worst of all we have no one to blame but ourselves as we buy a cheap shirt made in China to save a buck or as our President, Kushner, Cohen and Mnunchin put the final nail in our coffin as they carry out agendas to benefit themselves or their bosses at Goldman Sachs.
7
I lived in HK from 2011 to early 2013. I truly feel for my people with everything they're going through. Hard to believe it's been 20 years since The Handover but hoping for a brighter and fresher start with a new leader in place who has her work cut out. Stay strong Hong Kong!
5
I wonder if, not when, the NYT might understand that carrying a torch for Imperial Britain is recognized around the world as a symptom of the parallel decline of American "exceptional" imperialism.
Temporally dislocated by a couple of World Wars, witness the same tale of successful uprisings followed by the inevitable whine of those who missed their chance at playing Quisling.
Any citizen of Earth steps back before the farce that is Trump playing at Colonel Blimp...and hears the drone of Cold War themes humming along in the background.
Temporally dislocated by a couple of World Wars, witness the same tale of successful uprisings followed by the inevitable whine of those who missed their chance at playing Quisling.
Any citizen of Earth steps back before the farce that is Trump playing at Colonel Blimp...and hears the drone of Cold War themes humming along in the background.
3
It will eventually come down to choosing our way or theirs. Our way being a somewhat authoritarian capitalism, and theirs being a totally authoritarian capitalism... with the nasty exception of no free speech, assembly, or right to a fair and open judicial system, but hey, other than that, right?
As a permanent resident, I don't fully recognise the city that you have described. Certainly I recognise some of the issues, but it is not the whole picture.
The photos are gorgeous, but again, they are not really the city I know. I feel that you have come in with an outsider's perspective, seeing things that are here, but that are not so representative of general life in Hong Kong.
I agree that there is quite a bit of a mess in the legislature, but government generally runs smoothly. There have been delays on some major projects, but the scale is breathtaking. New York has finally finished 2nd Ave subway after decades of planning, and that is only one line. Hong Kong is building two new lines (one already completed) and extending yet another, in addition to building the XRL Express rail link to Beijing. Given that there are only a limited number of people and firms with relevant tunnelling experience, it is not surprising that XRL has fallen behind. And to be fair, the ground conditions were a lot more tricky than anticipated, and this has affected both budgets and schedules.
All in all, if you compare Hong Kong with other large cities, say New York, for example (which is another city I like), it doesn't really need to feel ashamed.
The photos are gorgeous, but again, they are not really the city I know. I feel that you have come in with an outsider's perspective, seeing things that are here, but that are not so representative of general life in Hong Kong.
I agree that there is quite a bit of a mess in the legislature, but government generally runs smoothly. There have been delays on some major projects, but the scale is breathtaking. New York has finally finished 2nd Ave subway after decades of planning, and that is only one line. Hong Kong is building two new lines (one already completed) and extending yet another, in addition to building the XRL Express rail link to Beijing. Given that there are only a limited number of people and firms with relevant tunnelling experience, it is not surprising that XRL has fallen behind. And to be fair, the ground conditions were a lot more tricky than anticipated, and this has affected both budgets and schedules.
All in all, if you compare Hong Kong with other large cities, say New York, for example (which is another city I like), it doesn't really need to feel ashamed.
146
I've not been to Hong Kong, but I have lived for a few years in Asia. I have been to China. I agree with your assessment of NY. I visited there for the first time in many years (husband native NYer, I'm from Jersey). The lack of infrastructure work was very surprising. It takes so long to finish a project, why? With all the tax dollars up there you'd think they'd have more to show for it. We're taxed quite a bit in Texas (but no income tax), but at least you can see where the money is going, roads, schools, etc. It's a conundrum.
Andrew, are you sure you are not working for Sai Wan or Tai Kung Poa or the HK government information office? Why don't you go to Donguan for a few days to take a break from defending the CCP.
2
There was an approach to finance that said to secure the property and then find a way to pay for it. That relied on the predicate that things would eventually settle down and all would be well. Well, as the spectacular pictures in this fine article convey, there are a lot more skyscrapers on Victoria Harbor than I remember the two times I visited since 1997. Apparently, some are optimistic regarding the stability of Hong Kong. We'll see in thirty years?
2
This article seems just mention the "bad" side of HK, which, in my opinion, does not reflect the overall achievement HK has gained during the last 20 years.
5
Colonialism has had its critics but doesn't Hong Kong show some of the benefits?
As an aside, the Midland Bank was founded in Birmingham, UK in the 19th century. Prior to the Chinese taking control in Hong Kong, HSBC bought out the
Midland and moved their HQ to London. A wonderful example, surely, of the colonized becoming so successful that they took over the colonizer.
As an aside, the Midland Bank was founded in Birmingham, UK in the 19th century. Prior to the Chinese taking control in Hong Kong, HSBC bought out the
Midland and moved their HQ to London. A wonderful example, surely, of the colonized becoming so successful that they took over the colonizer.
3
hong kong and shanghai bank is hong kong and shanghai in name only.
it's british owned from day one.
it's british owned from day one.
1
So a major city with an affordable housing crisis and infrastructure problems is now a "cautionary tale". Sounds like another major city I know.
2
Continuation...
And what about the politics? Democracy is not an single type of system, nor can it be perfect, but Hong Kong certainly has a good measure of it.
Looking from the outside, Democracy in the US seems to be taking a battering, but from the outside it probably looks worse than it is, and the same could be said of Hong Kong. While Carrie would not have won the popular vote, the same situation does arise in other political systems from time to time, and there is more representation than you might guess when looking in.
The gap between rich and poor is an issue, as in the US, and it would be good to see more public housing, but then that would probably be the case in some US cities as well.
When I think back over the article, I feel that the authors have drawn a bleaker picture than is appropriate for people reading about Hong Kong in the US. There may be some tensions, but overall Beijing wishes Hong Kong well and most people in Hong Kong are OK with the somewhat limited level of democracy, provided there is stability. A comparison of voting percentages shows 73% of eligible people are registered to vote and 53% of them voted in the last election. Both figures are almost identical to the US. Overall, I don't feel the negative tone was warranted. Still well-written and presented, though.
And what about the politics? Democracy is not an single type of system, nor can it be perfect, but Hong Kong certainly has a good measure of it.
Looking from the outside, Democracy in the US seems to be taking a battering, but from the outside it probably looks worse than it is, and the same could be said of Hong Kong. While Carrie would not have won the popular vote, the same situation does arise in other political systems from time to time, and there is more representation than you might guess when looking in.
The gap between rich and poor is an issue, as in the US, and it would be good to see more public housing, but then that would probably be the case in some US cities as well.
When I think back over the article, I feel that the authors have drawn a bleaker picture than is appropriate for people reading about Hong Kong in the US. There may be some tensions, but overall Beijing wishes Hong Kong well and most people in Hong Kong are OK with the somewhat limited level of democracy, provided there is stability. A comparison of voting percentages shows 73% of eligible people are registered to vote and 53% of them voted in the last election. Both figures are almost identical to the US. Overall, I don't feel the negative tone was warranted. Still well-written and presented, though.
5
The young people I know in Hong Kong are indeed depressed about the future of their city-state. More so than young people in America (not that America is in any way relevant to the story here). They all believe that Beijing has been heavy-handed and is slowly tightening freedoms over the 50-year plan to full integration. At the most basic level: Hong Kongers value freedom, and Beijing does not. There are a lot of practical issues at play here, but that is the fundamental issue.
1
Did anyone believe that Hong Kong would do as well under China as under Great Britain?
3
HK is doing fine under China. This article does not paint an altogether accurate picture, especially if you don't know much about Hong Kong. I don't think these sorts of comparisons are helpful, especially as they tend to have whiff of paternalism about them.
3
Chinese interference in Hong Kong government doesn't bother you?
does it bother you we do regime change around the world?
what if you were Iraqi, Libyan, Syrian?
what if you were Iraqi, Libyan, Syrian?
1
For 100 years, the British ruled Hong Kong with an iron fist. there was not even a hint of democracy. just before it turned over Hong Kong to its rightful owners, it fomented dissent and a demand for democracy. once again the British make a mess to further its own interests. sad.
4
One country, two systems - unwieldy. One country, two realities - untenable. Wonder which of us is the other's future?
35
As a HK native this makes me incredibly sad. My parents foresaw this outcome, and applied for US citizenship before my older brother was born. We emigrated from HK in 1995 basically to avoid this. I don't know what the solution is, but I will always have love and nostalgia for the HK of my childhood.
226
Don't believe everything times publishes. Visit and spend some time. I really like it here. Democracy in US right now is showing us the worst of capitalism and democracy - if US can't be a model, Britain is going through its own mess - and let's not forget how many democratic countries have had the same political party in power for many many years.
1
We still have relatives there and I visit once a year. When I go back there is always some issue on the news that seems irrelevant (e.g., expansion of cable news channels) that gets deadlocked because of the parties cannot agree. Every night before the evening news comes on the Chinese national anthem is played, which angers a lot of HKers. HK is not the same as it was pre-1997 and I think it would be clear to anyone who's spent time in that city during both periods.
1
Hope you are living well in Trump's America!
Have you been back? If not, you should. Instead of speaking ignorantly of things you know nothing of - that of Hong Kong today.
Have you been back? If not, you should. Instead of speaking ignorantly of things you know nothing of - that of Hong Kong today.
During the transition many Hong Kongians travelled to GB with their "British" passports with hopes of escaping the aftermath of transition. They were "pleasantly surprised" to learn that there were two kinds of British passports and that their kind didn't have the right kind to claim a British homeland. Ahhhhh! Liberte, Equalite, Fraternite under British.
58
You didn't actually expect the ruling classes over here to do the right thing, did you?
1
Hong Kong people are smarter than you suggest. I don't think any were unaware of the games played by the UK government. Still, think about the potential of suddenly gaining up to 5 or so million new immigrants for the UK, a country of 60million. The equivalent for the US would be 20-25 million potential immigrants(!). By way of comparison, there were 1 million immigrants to the US in 2015, and 40% came because of relatives.
2
Of course mainland PRC couldn't resist meddling with the rule of law in HK as their need for power, bribes and payoffs is so enormous. After all, condos in Vancouver BC plus tuition for the kids at Barnard and USC are all expensive!
10
Very cynical. Numbers and facts please. Assertions based on gut feeling don't count.
1
My fear is that HK is simply another "land of oligarchs," where money justifies everything, democratic protesters are silenced, and everyday people shut their door in despair. Is this the world of the future? With Xi, Putin, and Trump, very possibly.
127
How on earth was Obama not an authoritarian??
2
Indeed, there are many similarities with the US: defeat of the candidate with the popular vote, most of the wealth in a few hands, massive public debt... wait a minute... that last one is only the US. HK is doing fine.
Cathryn,
HK has always been a "land of oligarchs," and that is one of its root problems. Even to date, HSBC still has 50-60% market share of HK banking business. Imagine Washington or London let the British bank has such a control in its market.
Every business segment is concentrated in a few hands in HK.
HK has always been a "land of oligarchs," and that is one of its root problems. Even to date, HSBC still has 50-60% market share of HK banking business. Imagine Washington or London let the British bank has such a control in its market.
Every business segment is concentrated in a few hands in HK.
I used to love Hong Kong and looked forward to leaving China and spending the weekend in the city. Now the Hong Kong is crowded and a bit of a mess. Shop owners who were once frinedly are now rude unless you are rich mainlanders. I've taken the hint and now fly to Ho Chi Minh City in Vietnam for the weekend. Now that's a fun city!
12
Ah yes- Vietnam. Another communist country with even lower "freedom" ranking than China. But since they are so small they or ok against the big bad China now? SMH
The very idea that East Asian needs British rule to prospect is offensive. One look at Japan, Korea, China and it is obvious Asian countries are prosperous because of Asian's work ethics and innate sense of order. If British rule is the prerequisite for prosperity, how come the British Commonwealth's average GDP per capital is below Thailand's and half of China's?
Hong Kong was prosperous because the communist made Hong Kong the sole open port of China. Now all Chinese ports are open to trade, Shanghai, Guangdong, Qingdao and Tianjin are going to resume their places as mainports of China as they have been for centuries.
Hong Konger failed to understand it is they hard work and unique circumstance that made Hong Kong what it was, not British rule. Continue to look down on other Asians and clamoring for white people to come back and rule them is what delays necessary projects for Hong Kong's continuous prosperity.
I am going to Hong Kong in November and that will be the last time I go there. People travel to Hong Kong for what Hong Kong was, like they did Athens, Thebes and Rome. Hong Kong is the past and it peaked in the 70s and 80s. The future belong to Shanghai.
Hong Kong was prosperous because the communist made Hong Kong the sole open port of China. Now all Chinese ports are open to trade, Shanghai, Guangdong, Qingdao and Tianjin are going to resume their places as mainports of China as they have been for centuries.
Hong Konger failed to understand it is they hard work and unique circumstance that made Hong Kong what it was, not British rule. Continue to look down on other Asians and clamoring for white people to come back and rule them is what delays necessary projects for Hong Kong's continuous prosperity.
I am going to Hong Kong in November and that will be the last time I go there. People travel to Hong Kong for what Hong Kong was, like they did Athens, Thebes and Rome. Hong Kong is the past and it peaked in the 70s and 80s. The future belong to Shanghai.
43
The communists did not "make" Hong Kong the open part of China -- Hong Kong was open long before the communist party got its grubby, corrupt hands on the government of the territory. The fantasy of One Country, Two Systems has been exposed as a sham. And cities like Shanghai are hurtling towards the same decline after their meteoric rise, for the same reasons.
4
Red pill, blue pill...?
1
Agreed to the fullest extent.
Are you kidding? Hong Kong was a model city until China intruded in its usual awful ways. With the US under the sway of a pack of idiots (giving up TTP was devestating for the region), their is no counter to China's inroads to Hong Kong. Hong Kong is losing its independence and as a result its functioning democracy. This is such a clear cut story. This is reality-- not some fake news. Your efforts to see both sides is ridiculous. Shades of Tienamen Square now. China killed thousands, possibly 10s of thousands of its own people, mostly its most idealistic young people, and has kept this a buried dirty secret ever since. It is illegal to even mention the uprising. Colleges throughout China are on a permanent lock down. The gates are there for the students protection (NOT). These young people went off to school with open minds and were murdered with impunity by their government. This is China. It is a China now casting its shadow over Hong Kong. Do not kid yourself about what authoritarianism truly is and does. The people of HOng Kong know the truth and attept to speak it about China. China is a bully with no limits. My prayers (also not tolerated by China) and hopes are with the people of Hong Kong. But I fear for them.
61
Please could you provide some data to back up your assertions? China actually gave Hong Kong a massive boost by opening up its markets. This was a deliberate act of care for HK. And Hong Kong provided expertise and investment that boosted development in China. The relationship has been extremely beneficial on both sides, even when factoring in all of the downsides.
some hongkong folks would rather be second-class citizen of UK than up-standing Chinese. serves them right
4
It serves them right for preferring freedom?
5
I don't think you really know Hong Kong. There are lots of different positions, and your broad brush insults miss the mark in so many ways.
7.4 Million people in a space that would be very crowded with ONE Million.
Wow, what's the REAL problem?????
Wow, what's the REAL problem?????
8
Actually NYC has about the same number of people but is one third the size of HK.
5
Actually we have more green space than built up. Our country parks cover 40% of the total area of the territory, and only 25% is built up. I can walk into a country park within 40 minutes from where I live and it would be even quicker by taxi (I don't have a car and I don't need one).
1
Yes, NYT, we understand: China = bad. An affordable housing crisis and 1 million mainlanders bringing talent and energy to the city are a crisis?
We need to rethink some of the underlying assumptions in this piece. British "rule" in HK was a vestige of colonial times. HK was Chinese prior to the bizarre lease to Britain. It is again Chinese. The economy is thriving. mainlanders are invigorating the city.
Why not write about the impending decline of San Francisco instead? There's an affordable housing crisis there and, over the last 15-20 years, Silicon Valley residents have come into the city and have taken some of the best locally available jobs.
I understand that the NYT has a long standing bias against China, but Keith Bradsher can do better.
We need to rethink some of the underlying assumptions in this piece. British "rule" in HK was a vestige of colonial times. HK was Chinese prior to the bizarre lease to Britain. It is again Chinese. The economy is thriving. mainlanders are invigorating the city.
Why not write about the impending decline of San Francisco instead? There's an affordable housing crisis there and, over the last 15-20 years, Silicon Valley residents have come into the city and have taken some of the best locally available jobs.
I understand that the NYT has a long standing bias against China, but Keith Bradsher can do better.
86
Invigorating the city by weakening democracy? In the long run--Nation states like Britain or China will rise and fall. The sad truth here is that everyday people are suffering because democracy is waning in the face of authoritarianism.
1
Impending decline of San Francisco?
Ha.
This is a city of boom and bust, I've lived here less than half my life and seen two boom/bust cycles already. There will be another tech bust, and the city will let out a sigh in relief as rent prices stabilize. From the perspective of those making less than $80,000/yr (poverty line in SF) this won't be seen as a decline but boon.
Our biggest problem now is all the private multi-billion dollar companies sucking up tax benefits designed to keep them here resulting in squeezed social programs like public education. Good riddance.
Ha.
This is a city of boom and bust, I've lived here less than half my life and seen two boom/bust cycles already. There will be another tech bust, and the city will let out a sigh in relief as rent prices stabilize. From the perspective of those making less than $80,000/yr (poverty line in SF) this won't be seen as a decline but boon.
Our biggest problem now is all the private multi-billion dollar companies sucking up tax benefits designed to keep them here resulting in squeezed social programs like public education. Good riddance.
1
I can agree with most of this, and having lived in both SF and HK, I think I have a good perspective.
Not only is the article patronising, but many of the commenters are way off the mark as well. I have ended up writing long responses when I should be asleep....
Not only is the article patronising, but many of the commenters are way off the mark as well. I have ended up writing long responses when I should be asleep....
2
Hong Kong; one of the earliest examples in modern society of east meets west. The confluence of both streams of influence is what made Hong Kong great. Japan developed into the prototype of an advanced eastern civilization that took advantage of western capitalist influence. Chinese bureaucrats are too deeply entrenched to allow that to continue on its own turf. After the dismantling of the pro-democracy movement of the early nineties Beijing is not about to let its guard down. I really feel for the people of Hong Kong who had transformed this extension of China into an economic powerhouse. Let us learn from this and not take democracy for granted.
7
The general gist of this article is that Hong Kong is too expensive, too cushy, and too engulfed in political stalemate to compete with Mainland Chinese cities like Shanghai and Beijing that are not restricted by democracy and property protections. That's not a surprise. Shanghai built 10 subway lines and dozens of highway tunnels in the time NYC and HK built one station. Shanghai and Beijing's airports are much more impressive than anything in NYC or HK.
This is the price for democracy, pensions and welfare.
This is the price for democracy, pensions and welfare.
8
I'd rather be known for a social safety net that doesn't throw the poor and elderly under the train, than have a train line built in 1/10th the time.
Just sayin'...
Just sayin'...
2
It's the price we pay for a Republican party which only cares about tax cuts for the wealthy. Where's all the infrastructure Trump promised to build?
1
Right. Price to pay for free education, top infrastructure, universal healthcare, a green environment and smog-free skies.
To me the deeper story compares the impact of the state (China), which is profoundly against personal liberty, and the Hong Kong of yesterday, awash with freedom of expression and the rule of law. Why must China compel and coerce its people to live under a system that allows them no redress? Why don't the people rebel?
5
I don't think you understand Hong Kong. Sadly the writer of the article wasn't too clear either. HK already has some level of democracy, even if the candidate who won the popular vote did not get in. Hmmm... sounds familiar. Registration of eligible voters and voter turnout is almost identical with the US (for presidential elections), so obviously people think it is worth voting... There is no one system of democracy, and most in Hong Kong are satisfied with what they have. Don't do Hong Kong down, just because you don't understand it.
1
No matter how benign, foreign control in any country will always be a complicated, messy thing and will lead to disputes, economic malaise, and sullen resentment. Halfway arrangements don't work. Either full integration, or full independence. America has an example of this much closer to home: Puerto Rico. It's not working for Hong Kong, and let me assure you as a resident of America's colony, it's not working for us either.
6
Big difference. Hong Kong was part of China before the British took it.
remember the opium war? hong kong was leased to uk..
I would like to see we return Guantanamo bay to the Cubans.
I would like to see we return Guantanamo bay to the Cubans.
Hong Kong island was part of Qing Dynasty China, 175 years and two Chinese revolutions ago, before it was ceded to the British. It does not obviously follow that the modern PRC state should have perpetual dominion over the people of the modern city of Hong Kong.
Sad to see a great city come to this point. Excellent coverage of a complicated issue. Also, terrific photographs of the cloudy, moody side of Hong Kong.
3
It is indeed sad. Or it would be if the author had been correct in his angle, and if the photographer were truly showing the reality of life in Hong Kong. The article is well-written and the photographs are stunning, but the reality on the ground is no ways as dismal. HK actually compares very well with NY and SF, as I have made clear in a number of replies.
No surprises here.
As the article makes very clear, Hong Kong had more individual freedom and was better run under the British.
As the article makes very clear, Hong Kong had more individual freedom and was better run under the British.
12
This article fails to make a lot of things clear. Things are much more complex, and different people feel different things. My personal experience does not match with what you have described. What experience do you actually have of Hong Kong?
1
Fake news. Educate yourself. I was there and I am here again. No comparison.
Hong Kong Chinese are the heads of government, business, and everything else where the British would not allow Chinese to be in any top position.
The protests in the 60s were brutally suppressed by the British whereas that in 2014 was largely peaceful and allowed to occupy the crucial part of business centre for a over a month.
There were NO free elections under the British, let along any talk of universal suffrage.
The unease you have with Hong Kong is tinged with racism - anything to do with China is ill-regarded by some people, despite overwhelming evidence against it.
Hong Kong Chinese are the heads of government, business, and everything else where the British would not allow Chinese to be in any top position.
The protests in the 60s were brutally suppressed by the British whereas that in 2014 was largely peaceful and allowed to occupy the crucial part of business centre for a over a month.
There were NO free elections under the British, let along any talk of universal suffrage.
The unease you have with Hong Kong is tinged with racism - anything to do with China is ill-regarded by some people, despite overwhelming evidence against it.
2
Keith Bradsher's portrait of Hong Kong is written with some sort of utopian ideal in mind. It is not exactly clear what that ideal could be. Since he is writing from an American perspective, one glaring missing angle is which American city he could put up against Hong Kong to contrast what Hong Kong lacks: a highly efficient place where transportation runs on time, streets are clean and safe, public health standard is high, government office workers are courteous, competent and diligent, food & water safety is well-managed, gun violence is a rarity, students are still competitive in worldwide tests, technology is adopted all over the place at breakneck speed, ... The list goes on. On the "negative" - of course housing is extremely expensive. Job opportunity for the young graduates tough. What to expect with supply-demand? Packing so many people into such a thin slice of land brings its built-in issues. Democracy American styles can only amplify the paralysis of decision making, also American style. The only solution, and Chinese look at the term "long-term" very differently with its long history, is the eventual full integration of Hong Kong into China's fabric, when Hong Kong is just another mega-city competing with the likes of Shanghai and Chengdu. Then it must decide how to exploits its many unique capabilities.
5
I am generally in agreement, but it is not clear what form that integration will take. I also don't think that all the movement has to be in one direction. HK is a useful little experiment for the government in Beijing, as well as a good place to keep some investments.
1
A very interesting and shining city to visit, but one always senses the undercurrent of the presence of Beijing. While HK remains a vital part of the global economy, it blinds people to the reality of what exists on the mainland and perhaps is its fate - yet another victim of the vileness of communist dictatorship. For all they allow their version of capitalism to exist, and have shiny high speed trains and the like that people in the West ooh and ahh over ("why can't we do that?") the truth remains the nation is not free under such a crushing centralized system. It's not democracy light or any such nonsense - it is a crushing affront to free thinking people.
10
Strange - I was more aware of China as a presence when HK was a British Colony. Now it is just a place to go for cheap items (although less and less cheap as time goes by).
"[...] prosperous, modern, international, with the broad protections of the rule of law."
Well, Hong Kong was a colony with a British governor appointed by the Queen of the UK. The concept of "rule of law" here is void.
"When the British left 20 years ago, Hong Kong was seen as a rare blend of East and West that China might seek to emulate. Now, increasingly, it’s a cautionary tale."
When we analyse this thesis, we must first ask ourselves: according to who was Hong Kong "a blend of East and West China might seek to emulate"? One of the many Western think tanks pundits?
During the Chinese period (1997-2016), Hong Kong grew at an average of 3.2% annually. High if you would consider it a developed nation (it wasn't and isn't), but much inferior to the average of the Mainland.
In my opinion, the answer to why this thesis is wrong is simple: the capitalist economic model the British created for Hong Kong is inherently inferior to the socialist model of Mainland China. In 1997, there was this illusion China would try to copy HK because China started way behind, but it was just a matter of time.
It wouldn't make a difference if HK was still under British rule, as the Taiwan case shows us clearly: just like them, HK would be simply absorbed by China. It would be a de facto province of Mainland China, just like Taiwan still is -- and they still wouldn't have their precious democracy.
Well, Hong Kong was a colony with a British governor appointed by the Queen of the UK. The concept of "rule of law" here is void.
"When the British left 20 years ago, Hong Kong was seen as a rare blend of East and West that China might seek to emulate. Now, increasingly, it’s a cautionary tale."
When we analyse this thesis, we must first ask ourselves: according to who was Hong Kong "a blend of East and West China might seek to emulate"? One of the many Western think tanks pundits?
During the Chinese period (1997-2016), Hong Kong grew at an average of 3.2% annually. High if you would consider it a developed nation (it wasn't and isn't), but much inferior to the average of the Mainland.
In my opinion, the answer to why this thesis is wrong is simple: the capitalist economic model the British created for Hong Kong is inherently inferior to the socialist model of Mainland China. In 1997, there was this illusion China would try to copy HK because China started way behind, but it was just a matter of time.
It wouldn't make a difference if HK was still under British rule, as the Taiwan case shows us clearly: just like them, HK would be simply absorbed by China. It would be a de facto province of Mainland China, just like Taiwan still is -- and they still wouldn't have their precious democracy.
3
The governor did not rule by fiat. HK was and still is under the system of common and case law that derives from British Law. Thus it is similar to the system in most of the US. So what was your point?
Your growth comparison is irrelevant. Hong Kong is continuing to do well financially with US $100 billion in assets and lots of infrastructure investment. Your comments do not appear to be built on any relevant data.
Your growth comparison is irrelevant. Hong Kong is continuing to do well financially with US $100 billion in assets and lots of infrastructure investment. Your comments do not appear to be built on any relevant data.
1
Given Trump's inability to understand world politics and power and that the voters who elected him expect America First China has an amazing opportunity
China can flex its power for conquest unabated by the US
With a leadership vacuum from the US each step China takes will encourage the next.
China will continue to give Trump and his family personal business opportunities China
Everyone is too busy looking for Russian collusion to realize China is outright bribing Trump, Ivanka and Jared.
China can flex its power for conquest unabated by the US
With a leadership vacuum from the US each step China takes will encourage the next.
China will continue to give Trump and his family personal business opportunities China
Everyone is too busy looking for Russian collusion to realize China is outright bribing Trump, Ivanka and Jared.
5
One could say far worse about NYC, its affordable housing and subway system, and no one is on here attacking America's democratic institutions for it.
57
Communist China does not have "democratic institutions". We may be in a bad state in many ways here, but, despite what some think and how lazy a lot of the electorate is, we can do something about it at the ballot box.
2
The New York Times most definitely criticizes the city and state governments over their handling of transit and housing.
3
Interestingly the 2nd Ave Subway is half the length of the XRL length in HK (mostly tunnel), and at the same time HK is adding two other subway lines... there is also the six lane 30km bridge to Macau with a few new islands, and the third airport runway.... (US$100billion net assets and no debt) not such a backwater...
Well, the inflow of cheaper and more skilled workforce is just a natural consequence of globalization - in this case from a very concentrated source. Hong Kong has been a part of china (that's why Brits gave it back) so now it's up to the Hong Kong people (who are in fact governed by the Chinese system) to seek for their own ways to thrive in this new reality. Hongkongese has long been struggling with self identity issues - under brits rule, they were proud of the place they built under that rule and struggled to identify themselves - the world don't see them as British, Chinese don't see them as Chinese, and they themselves have a sense of superiority over mainland china. Now with the takeover it's this identity crisis in much bigger form - their kids can't compete with the higher scored mainland kids, they can't compete with the cheaper, more connected, and even harder working mainland labor. Market is fair, its the false sense of superiority that is making people bitter. Fact is - they are not more superior. It's time the Hong Kong people join the game that all the rest of the world plays - make the best of the system you are in, make it better with all you got, not just sit and complain and disrupt, step up and make change happen. The universe doesn't care. Chinese government has what it needs at grand scheme. It's the local people people (for generations) who will suffer if they don't step up and be leaders.
4
Sounds like what's going in the U.S. - a dysfunctional do-nothing Congress, in-fighting among Parties, hard-lined politics, tepid growth, increasing wealth inequality, the rise of Hate groups, protectionist rhetoric...all of which is leading the United States towards a secondary and non-leadership position that is the envy of no one. We should heed Hong Kong's tale.
13
Yes indeed... except HK is doing a lot better in most regards on a per capita basis. This article paints a very gloomy picture that is not really warranted. HK does have problems, and the winner of the popular vote won't make it into power... so far, just like the US... but HK has massive infrastructure investment and is still running a surplus, so you probably wish the US was doing that well.
2
A lot of mainland Chinese would argue that China has come a long way over the past 20 years and that if you look, a lot of big cities in China look like Hong Kong with its large skyscrapers and public transportation, etc. The problem that many mainland Chinese do not see or are in denial about is that China has had very little social progress over the past 20 years. All of the things that China sets importance by--taller buildings, more cars, more restaurants and Starbucks, more high end shops, etc.--are just improvements on the surface, there has been no real, meaningful change in China's culture or society.
Unfortunately, the Chinese government has always been more interested in improving the country's economic side and what the country looks like as opposed to improving the social well-being of its citizens. Until they get leadership who is more interested in human progress, very little change will happen.
Unfortunately, the Chinese government has always been more interested in improving the country's economic side and what the country looks like as opposed to improving the social well-being of its citizens. Until they get leadership who is more interested in human progress, very little change will happen.
185
I care about democracy, speech freedom, fresh air. However, I do not want starving, wars like my grandma experienced.
You are always using your standard to measure everything, have you take mainland Chinese feelings into consideration? What I feel from your words is superiority which come from nowhere.
Do I like value human rights? Yes. Does it matter? Yes. Is there no human rights in China? No, there is.
Why you think you know everything? You don't even know how to speak Mandarin, then how do you know the situation in China? Take a look at how many Chinese are leaning English, how many Chinese can speak English. As a student in NYU, I would not claim I know what is going on in NYC, then how could you make this false statement about China?
You are always using your standard to measure everything, have you take mainland Chinese feelings into consideration? What I feel from your words is superiority which come from nowhere.
Do I like value human rights? Yes. Does it matter? Yes. Is there no human rights in China? No, there is.
Why you think you know everything? You don't even know how to speak Mandarin, then how do you know the situation in China? Take a look at how many Chinese are leaning English, how many Chinese can speak English. As a student in NYU, I would not claim I know what is going on in NYC, then how could you make this false statement about China?
1
What about sharpest decline in China's poverty rate since 1981 and sharpest decline in China's illiteracy rate over the past 30 year? Are these not human and social improvements? Never mind. You just don't have any reason to really care about China's obvious progress. Never!
2
Even China doesn't have a magic touch. See: reality bites.
3
Thought Hong Kong was done when Asian economic crisis and SARS came. The Hong Kong people are some of the most resourseful people on this planet. No doubt they will get through this one.
1
The tyrants in Beijing won't rest until Hong Kong is fully under their thumb if only to discourage those in mainland China who still believe in political reform and dream of living in a free country.
8
The tragic erosion of the great HongKong is a cautionary tale. I've been studying China for 40 years and first saw HongKong in 1982. I remember the trepidation as July 1, 1997, approached. Then people didn't believe that the PRC would allow HongKong to retain its character, laws, freedoms. But the current stalemates were not predicted. How does it end? I'm waiting to see the moral of the story.
10
For years now everyone I know who's been to Hong Kong waxes warmly about it's offerings -- beautiful, efficient, economical. But this story makes it sound like America's political gridlock, crumbling infrastructure, expensive.
25
There are aspects of Hong Kong that certainly remain beautiful, efficient and economical. But costs have been rising, and nearly three years of gridlock in the legislature has delayed a variety of investment programs as well.
8
Hi Keith, what you say is true, but you only paint a partial picture. There are massive investments in infrastructure, and HK still maintains a very healthy surplus. Public housing could do with some investment, but it is streets ahead of US cities.
1
Agreed. The cost of living in so astronomically high that the Gov must subsidize nearly everything for lower income people.
I am a global citizen born three times lucky ( white\in the west\male )
I have taken my human rights ( given automatically at birth to all citizens on this planet, although allowed to practice them is another thing ) for granted too many times, that I cannot count.
I am not sure I would take the bargain of a greater chance of upward mobility ( when the taxes are zero or close to it ) in lieu of not being able to speak my mind. ( ask my kids about that one and they might make the trade for me )
I certainly would not want to go to sleep with the chance I may never wake up, disappear or be transported to a cell on the whims of the state.
Nobody should be taking that chance.
I have taken my human rights ( given automatically at birth to all citizens on this planet, although allowed to practice them is another thing ) for granted too many times, that I cannot count.
I am not sure I would take the bargain of a greater chance of upward mobility ( when the taxes are zero or close to it ) in lieu of not being able to speak my mind. ( ask my kids about that one and they might make the trade for me )
I certainly would not want to go to sleep with the chance I may never wake up, disappear or be transported to a cell on the whims of the state.
Nobody should be taking that chance.
100
What an asinine comment, "lucky - white - male - west."
Liberal brainwashing & irrelevant factors in success.
Are you saying that all the other races; that other female sex; & people born in the east have a disadvantage. There are many poor white males in the west that suffer the same disadvantages in their parallel universe. Failure in this world is an option & so is success.
Liberal brainwashing & irrelevant factors in success.
Are you saying that all the other races; that other female sex; & people born in the east have a disadvantage. There are many poor white males in the west that suffer the same disadvantages in their parallel universe. Failure in this world is an option & so is success.
2
Try being Black in America.
2
You can bet that Taiwan is watching this and seeing the destruction wrought by the mainland's political policies, not to mention the problems caused by the influx of mainlanders taking hospital beds, buying up goods, ,and generally behaving as the most nouveau of riche in Hong Kong.
43
I wonder the number of influx of westerners who live and work in HK. I guess they are so much more welcomed than mainlanders. Maybe building a wall can solve all HK issues.
"Hong Kong was seen as a rare blend of East and West that China might seek to emulate."
Now it's a blend that Xi Jinping China seeks to eliminate.
Now it's a blend that Xi Jinping China seeks to eliminate.
16
This could make a lesser Brit feel smug
19
What a depressing article about Hong Kong. Where are the talents of NY times writers? A friend recently told me that his son graduated from Harvard and later a PhD degree from Beijing University is happily working for a Wall Street firm in Hong Kong. In addition, he is going to marry a Chinese girl, and continue to stay in Hong Kong.
With the RMB in the SDR, Chinese A share in MSCI index, and privilege to sell Chinese government bonds openly and transparently by Hong Kong, the world will have a great demand for Chinese government bonds. Hong Kong will blossom in the business. People will benefit tremendously from the trades.
Future Hong Kong generations will take time and learn what Chinese government has done for them. They will appreciate the effort when they grow up and go out to see the world. Only by comparison, one will see and learn.
Compare to 20 years ago of Hong Kong, she has already done and accomplish a lot. However, I think the next 20 years of Hong Kong will have nothing but the best when they fully embrace the mainland China.
With the RMB in the SDR, Chinese A share in MSCI index, and privilege to sell Chinese government bonds openly and transparently by Hong Kong, the world will have a great demand for Chinese government bonds. Hong Kong will blossom in the business. People will benefit tremendously from the trades.
Future Hong Kong generations will take time and learn what Chinese government has done for them. They will appreciate the effort when they grow up and go out to see the world. Only by comparison, one will see and learn.
Compare to 20 years ago of Hong Kong, she has already done and accomplish a lot. However, I think the next 20 years of Hong Kong will have nothing but the best when they fully embrace the mainland China.
14
The stooges are loyal to the death.
Alas.
Alas.
6
Longtime Hong Kong residents who speak fluent Mandarin and have developed connections on the mainland, either through relatives there or by attending university there, do indeed have fairly strong job prospects these days. But that describes a small share of Hong Kong's population -- although a growing share, given steady immigration from the mainland. The large majority of longtime Hong Kong residents are most comfortable speaking Cantonese, and find themselves struggling as the language of business, and even to some extent the language of government decision making, shifts increasingly toward Mandarin.
33
"with the broad protections of the rule of law"
Tienanmen square ring a bell?
Tienanmen square ring a bell?
2
"The “one country, two systems” formula ... promised Hong Kong a high degree of autonomy when Britain returned it to China. But [it has] been weakened as the Communist Party increasingly meddles in the city’s affairs."
China had a unique opportunity to persuade Taiwan and the world of their good intentions. They blew it.
China had a unique opportunity to persuade Taiwan and the world of their good intentions. They blew it.
149
Communist dictatorships don't have deep seated "good intentions", for the fundamental premise of their power is evil.
3
They didn't blow it. China itself became more economically competitive than both Hong Kong and Taiwan, thus taking away economic opportunity from those two places. That's the biggest issue. HK's opportunity has shrunk as other Chinese cities like Shanghai have stolen its lucrative finance jobs.
1
Megalomaniacs and sociopaths have always and will always seek to rule and control...and they usually do. So the rest of us suffer. What else is new?
15
At least they still believe in conservation of the public spaces. It looks tantalizing to me, nevertheless.
6
Hong Kong's country parks are absolutely spectacular. Much of the foliage is not indigenous -- Hong Kong Island in particular was almost completely defoliated during World War II and its hillsides were replanted with trees and shrubs brought in from Malaysia and even East Africa. The New Territories has more indigenous foliage. But in any case, the parks are beautiful. And particularly in eastern Hong Kong, on the island and in the New Territories, the beaches are impressive as well.
20
The biggest concern for the people of HK is the graft and corruption that is being imported from the mainland
129
Hong Kong Today: A perfect example of why communism / socialism dos not work.
34
They aren't either?
2
No such thing as a perfect example. And socialism works, in some capacity, in every capitalist country in the world.
5
Couldn't have said it better myself!!! BZ!
"Once a Model City....." "The World of Suzie Wong" was made when Hong Kong was under the British. Keith Bradsher might want to watch it with his family.
3
As soon as China got its hand on HK it went to pot. Shocking.
1
Hong Kong is more prosperous today than it ever was under the British. This is according to BBC this morning.
Is there a true democracy in the world outside the artic countries and Oceania?
3
what are the arctic countries and oceania or I am missing the joke (ie no one lives in the artic )
Unfortunate but Hong Kong is like a drop of water on a counter top and China is the sponge that will absorb it.
99
What makes HK not part of the sponge? Colonialism.
1
It strikes me as inaccurate to say that Hong Kong demonstrates a "peril of democracy."
Instead, it would be more accurate to say that Hong Kong demonstrates the peril of a bastardized version of democracy where authoritarians and autocrats influence the system and undermine the process.
Something like America.
Instead, it would be more accurate to say that Hong Kong demonstrates the peril of a bastardized version of democracy where authoritarians and autocrats influence the system and undermine the process.
Something like America.
309
it does remind me of america. But at least they're building high speed rail, and at least they have infrastructure, jobs, and things work. But too much gridlock and it will be even more like the US.
4
Yes, clearly the 'cautionary tale' of the headline is specifically meant to comment on our own dysfunctional politics.
1
Ha! It's quite funny how Western journalists/critics speak ill of other democracies without realizing the speck in its own eye.
That is the essential story of Hong Kong.
The British waged war on China to enforce their drug dealing operations and seized Hong Kong as their drug base for 99 years. At the end of the 99 years Hong Kong had to revert to China. There was no room for negotiation - at end of all leases property reverts to the owner.
But then other then exploiting the colony for all its economic worth, what kind of democracy did the British introduce? Nothing more then the guided democracy of many third world countries. And the bad faith promises of Patton just before the handover.
So the Chinese have begun to integrate Hong Kong into their system. The stolen child when returned must be brought up as any other child.
Perhaps the problem lies with Hong Kong. The opportunities to develop their land base into China was always there. But only Shenzhen was used - for manufacturing and home for mistress and concubines (Hong Kong view).
And a terribly racist attitude - calling China Cheena.
As for democracy - it is an ideal held by Chinese also - but it is a slow evolving process for an authoritarian state.
Hong Kong could help by lighting candles and not cursing the darkness.