I have live in the US, Canada and Mexico. Canada is a frozen tundra with a small need of backbraking jobs compared to the US who has good weather in the south and vast fertile land from California to Florida.
In all three countries politics stink. Most people writing here seemed brainwashed with a lack of common sense. Immigration is all about economics and have zero relation to whatever your political preferences are, wheather you are blue or red or white, black, hispanic or asian, it doesn't matter. It's all about the market and shrinking labor force. Canadians are getting old. Its population is aging rapidly. Europe is facing the same issue. The US is not so far behind with babyboomers retiring in droves. You need to keep a healthy number of people in the labor force otherwise your economy will crumble. Also companies don't like a shrinking market with fewer consumers, who would buy houses, clothes, cars? Who has more influence in immigration policy making, an investor in wall street or a bunch of xenophics in the middle of nowhere?.
Canadian workforce would shrink, as well as their market size if there is no immigration, same as Europe. The US is a few years from getting there with a shrinking worforce already taking place.
In all three countries politics stink. Most people writing here seemed brainwashed with a lack of common sense. Immigration is all about economics and have zero relation to whatever your political preferences are, wheather you are blue or red or white, black, hispanic or asian, it doesn't matter. It's all about the market and shrinking labor force. Canadians are getting old. Its population is aging rapidly. Europe is facing the same issue. The US is not so far behind with babyboomers retiring in droves. You need to keep a healthy number of people in the labor force otherwise your economy will crumble. Also companies don't like a shrinking market with fewer consumers, who would buy houses, clothes, cars? Who has more influence in immigration policy making, an investor in wall street or a bunch of xenophics in the middle of nowhere?.
Canadian workforce would shrink, as well as their market size if there is no immigration, same as Europe. The US is a few years from getting there with a shrinking worforce already taking place.
3
While the US has been aggressively creating refugees through its regime changes in the Middle East and northern Africa, Canada has been quietly scooping up the best to match business, economic needs for many years. Refugees with education and skills from all countries likewise prefer Canada because it is not associated with the world's leading bully, and racism. And Canada welcomes those with significant assets who in turn create jobs. It has also been a huge benefit to its health care system.
As a frequent visitor from a foreign country for 20 years, it is interesting to see all Canadians remain polite and helpful while its demographic has visibly changed.
The concensus is that if the US did not wage wars, the better people would want to go there, but then it would introduce competition where we do not need it.
As a frequent visitor from a foreign country for 20 years, it is interesting to see all Canadians remain polite and helpful while its demographic has visibly changed.
The concensus is that if the US did not wage wars, the better people would want to go there, but then it would introduce competition where we do not need it.
8
When you next are about to praise Canada for its multiculturalism and tolerance, remember the figures in this article about the education and class of Canada's immigrants. Immigrants to Canada are drawn principally from the global middle to upper-middle class - a group with a tremendous convergence in core values across nations, even though more superficial aspects of retained culture may create an initial impression of deep diversity.
17
Trump has not thought about how to reform the legal immigration system. The nice sound of a points-based system has attractive US politicians repeatedly over the years, but to redesign the system would require a substantial effort, time, and organization. A man who hasn't even budgeted for The Wall - the only thing he's ever really been committed to -- is not a man who can focus for the time it would take to transform our system.
If negotiating and compromising with the Democrats were not completely taboo for GOP politicians, the effort could be made in Congress, but until the Nativist wing of the GOP loses its control over the party, this won't happen.
If negotiating and compromising with the Democrats were not completely taboo for GOP politicians, the effort could be made in Congress, but until the Nativist wing of the GOP loses its control over the party, this won't happen.
7
I believe it would be very good to model Canada's immigration policies.
There are a couple of challenges. The US shares a border with Mexico and there will always be family based imigration from South of the border. Canada does not share a border where millions of people have crossed over and who's families follow.
Also, the Trump administration lacks any real drive or capability of championing and pushing through such policy changes. All we get are sound bites.
There are a couple of challenges. The US shares a border with Mexico and there will always be family based imigration from South of the border. Canada does not share a border where millions of people have crossed over and who's families follow.
Also, the Trump administration lacks any real drive or capability of championing and pushing through such policy changes. All we get are sound bites.
6
I work for a US headquartered technology company and in the Edmonton office I have worked with colleagues from India, Egypt, Chile, Ecuador, Colombia, Sri Lanka and Ireland. All of them came to Canada with a minimum of bachelor degrees and some have master level degrees (paid by their native countries).
They work hard and contribute greatly to our community, pay their fair share of taxes and work at becoming Canadian citizens. I'm proud to work with them and consider them as Canadian as someone born in Canada.
We also have some US employees that can no longer work in the US because their H-1B visas are not being renewed. We are looking at relocating them to Vancouver (time zone aligns with San Jose, short trip to HQ if required). We are happy to have them in Canada.
They work hard and contribute greatly to our community, pay their fair share of taxes and work at becoming Canadian citizens. I'm proud to work with them and consider them as Canadian as someone born in Canada.
We also have some US employees that can no longer work in the US because their H-1B visas are not being renewed. We are looking at relocating them to Vancouver (time zone aligns with San Jose, short trip to HQ if required). We are happy to have them in Canada.
19
"Immigrant children in Canadian schools read at the same level as the native born, while the gap is huge in the United States."
This may point to part of the problem in the United States. In Canada we have recognized the need for extra literacy supports in our schools for the children of parents who do not speak English or French fluently at home.
This may point to part of the problem in the United States. In Canada we have recognized the need for extra literacy supports in our schools for the children of parents who do not speak English or French fluently at home.
12
Here is a crazy idea: train and educate our own people.
There will be 10 billion people by 2050. No country needs to import people- for any reason.
We should all be actively pushing for a lower population growth rate.
Educated, uneducated, here by choice or as a 'refugee'- it does not really matter. In the long run any immigration is more harmful than beneficial.
There will be 10 billion people by 2050. No country needs to import people- for any reason.
We should all be actively pushing for a lower population growth rate.
Educated, uneducated, here by choice or as a 'refugee'- it does not really matter. In the long run any immigration is more harmful than beneficial.
15
What nonsense. Many areas(e.g., mid western states) and even countries (Japan, Russia) are losing population, and many others need infusions of capable people. I am quite certain that the folks coming into Canada have more to offer a civilized country than do any number of nativists. I suspect that the same would even apply to our cohort of undocumented immigrants, most of whom work hard for minimal pay and keep their noses clean.
This country has hobbled itself with nativism since Germans and Irish arrived 200 years ago. The industry and education of newcomers is better for any decent country than the bile of bigots.
This country has hobbled itself with nativism since Germans and Irish arrived 200 years ago. The industry and education of newcomers is better for any decent country than the bile of bigots.
10
First of all, being compared to Scandinavia, a big compliment for Canada.
Secondly, it is not that great of an immigration system -- efficient for immigrants who fall under the rich category and are accepted because they bring a large amount of money to Canada, glacially slow and inefficient for ordinary poor saps and expensive to boot, with plenty of marginal immigration services who rip off desperate souls and who do little to actually help them. Also the educated immigrants who do get it are treated quite badly, they often have to re-do all their professional requirements from scratch even if they have been practicing for years in their home country and end up working at menial jobs just to get by -- this in many provinces that lack the very professions that these immigrants practice. And let us not even get into the French language requirements in Quebec which prevent many from practicing their profession even when they speak perfectly adequate French, can communicate very well and in languages that many residents, immigrants themselves, actually speak and are on top of that highly specializing in areas where they are desperately needed in Quebec -- laughable if it wasn't so pathetic. So it looks good from the outside but far from great.
Secondly, it is not that great of an immigration system -- efficient for immigrants who fall under the rich category and are accepted because they bring a large amount of money to Canada, glacially slow and inefficient for ordinary poor saps and expensive to boot, with plenty of marginal immigration services who rip off desperate souls and who do little to actually help them. Also the educated immigrants who do get it are treated quite badly, they often have to re-do all their professional requirements from scratch even if they have been practicing for years in their home country and end up working at menial jobs just to get by -- this in many provinces that lack the very professions that these immigrants practice. And let us not even get into the French language requirements in Quebec which prevent many from practicing their profession even when they speak perfectly adequate French, can communicate very well and in languages that many residents, immigrants themselves, actually speak and are on top of that highly specializing in areas where they are desperately needed in Quebec -- laughable if it wasn't so pathetic. So it looks good from the outside but far from great.
6
Why not require English proficiency, modern skills, a certain amount of capital, good health, no criminal record for would be immigrants? We don't need more poor or unhealthy people. We have the right to pick the best as much as Canada does.
12
This comment has some merit but does not tell the whole story. Canada has a very high standard for educating the professional class. We rank in the top 5 in most major professions such as medicine and engineering. While to some degree truly disheartening, requiring immigrants to meet these standards does everyone including immigrant professionals a service in the long run. Some degree of ruthlessness is always required.
12
Australia has a similar Immigration intake as seen in Canada and are in fact the most Multicultural Country in the World with over 33% of Australians born in another Country...
And the majority of our immigrants are finally now coming from Asian Countries versus the White European, (mainly British Immigrants ) that dominated for years.
Variety is the Spice of Life!
And the majority of our immigrants are finally now coming from Asian Countries versus the White European, (mainly British Immigrants ) that dominated for years.
Variety is the Spice of Life!
4
Actually the number is 26.8% for Australia vs 20.6% for Canada. But intake far less diverse: your main sources are Britain and NZ. Just like Switzerland has a similarly high rate of immigration with most immigrants from France and Germany.
By comparison, Canada's top groups are Philippines, China and India. You don't get to similar others until Americans, in 7th spot on the list.
By comparison, Canada's top groups are Philippines, China and India. You don't get to similar others until Americans, in 7th spot on the list.
6
I could not agree more with this piece. After some years abroad, we are returning to Canada and recently went there to buy a house. We looked in an very nice suburban neighborhood, and after living in a similar neighborhood in Indiana in the 90's, I was so afraid I would be one of the few dark skin people with an accent living there! I have visited the area only once, briefly some years ago, and I could not really noticed any ethnic diversity. I was so happily surprised when I noticed that many, many of my future neighbors are immigrants! I saw people from Asia, the Middle East, Africa, you name it, and all looked so happy and relax going to the park, school, and about their business in general. It was such a striking contrast with my USA experience, where unfortunately, the immigrant neighborhoods at least in the Northwest Indiana and Chicago areas, were considered poor and dangerous. I do not think the immigration system in Canada is perfect and to be honest, I do hope in my heart that we do not have any terrorist among our midst, but it is one of the very, very few things I think President Trump is actually being smart to consider: implementing something similar to the Canadian immigration system in The United States.
12
Canadians also bring in more refugees - how many have college degrees and assets to bring with them?
For Trump, his "merit based system" is for those who have enough money to invest in his son-in-law's projects in exchange for green-cards and a path to citizenship. Are those the kind of immigrants the nation really wants? The wealthy class overseas is just as self-entitled as the wealthy here, reaping the benefits from tax cuts, tax dodges, offering little to no benefit to society.
For Trump, his "merit based system" is for those who have enough money to invest in his son-in-law's projects in exchange for green-cards and a path to citizenship. Are those the kind of immigrants the nation really wants? The wealthy class overseas is just as self-entitled as the wealthy here, reaping the benefits from tax cuts, tax dodges, offering little to no benefit to society.
10
I believe Canada also has investor visas. It's not unusual.
7
What is wrong with preferring someone with $ to start a business? Sounds like a win! We need all the businesses and jobs we can get....
3
An excellent article. In the current US world of illegal immigrants, "anchor" babies, and admittance of any definition of refugee, we don't have an merit-based system. We should move towards that. I hope Trump does this.
12
At the bottom of the immigration debate there is a clash between idealists who believe all people in the world are equal in contribution and ability and therefore they should enjoy a level playing field, and realists who see that humankind has only about 20% of its population - the smartest and most educated - who preserve and further improve civilization.
It's the 80/20 famous Fibonacci Rule for everything. How can you be a great country if you stock up on the 80 percent of the backward people, not the 20% with the most valuable contributions?
It's the 80/20 famous Fibonacci Rule for everything. How can you be a great country if you stock up on the 80 percent of the backward people, not the 20% with the most valuable contributions?
18
"Great countries" don't think about the admission of people in terms of their being "backward" or "valuable"--if that were true, why would your view (and perhaps mine) have been published? And by the way, do you think of the current US president as among the "backward" or the "most valuable" citizens?
6
Mr. Tepperman, Canada may be deemed to have a Ruthlessly Smart Immigration Policy only compared to the US immigration policy, but not in itself, and not for the majority of Canadians.
Many friends in Canada told me that they had grown up in a country of European heritage and woke up - after 20 years of new immigration policy - as a minority in their native land, and they don't welcome the change. Their elected officials abandoned and betrayed them. When all PC talk is silenced, it's about diminished opportunities and a diminished quality of life, and a loss of community and culture. It is all doubled by a sense of alienation for everyone, because at the bottom of all hearts the birds of the same feather flock together.
Some of my friends had tried marriages with people from other races and cultures that failed miserably because of cultural differences, left them with kids they have to pay child support although they will have very limiting parental rights.
Many friends in Canada told me that they had grown up in a country of European heritage and woke up - after 20 years of new immigration policy - as a minority in their native land, and they don't welcome the change. Their elected officials abandoned and betrayed them. When all PC talk is silenced, it's about diminished opportunities and a diminished quality of life, and a loss of community and culture. It is all doubled by a sense of alienation for everyone, because at the bottom of all hearts the birds of the same feather flock together.
Some of my friends had tried marriages with people from other races and cultures that failed miserably because of cultural differences, left them with kids they have to pay child support although they will have very limiting parental rights.
12
You need to get some new friends, preferably from outside Ontario.And what kind of people "try marriages".
Canada is a country that welcomes diversity. It does, after all, have three founding peoples. Apart from our Aboriginal population, there have been people of non-European descent in Canada from the early 17thC. We are a vast land that needs many hands to make things work
Canada is a country that welcomes diversity. It does, after all, have three founding peoples. Apart from our Aboriginal population, there have been people of non-European descent in Canada from the early 17thC. We are a vast land that needs many hands to make things work
10
Who the heck do you know in Canada? I've never in 60 years met these people. Seriously. Sure they exist because I've seen anonymous comments on news articles so we have our handful of racist bigots too. But they are by far a minority and not representative if the country as a whole. Not by a long shot.
10
Canada is a nation in which intelligence and the good of the nation as a whole still matters in contrast to our own sad country with a petty strongman supported by pirates, preachers, and klansmen.
8
@ against rhetoric:
Yes. And if a sufficient number of intelligent, decent newcomers arrived here, the ascent of those thugs might stop.
Yes. And if a sufficient number of intelligent, decent newcomers arrived here, the ascent of those thugs might stop.
3
Canada currently has about a 19% visible minority population. About 2.9% are of African heritage.
Canada, you are downright white and homogenous compared to the United States and remain the great white north.
You do appear to have a smart immigration policy.
Canada, you are downright white and homogenous compared to the United States and remain the great white north.
You do appear to have a smart immigration policy.
13
Yellowknife, Canada's most northerly city, has a population of approx. 22,000. 13% are immigrants from Newfoundland :). Of the remaining 83%, about one third are First Nations and the rest contains people from over 90 of the World nations.
Have you been to Vancouver, a beautiful and extremely diverse city. Don't judge the rest of Canada by what you find in Ontario.
Have you been to Vancouver, a beautiful and extremely diverse city. Don't judge the rest of Canada by what you find in Ontario.
4
I wish I could say that our immigration policy was smarter than it's made out here. I assess many new Canadians and the college educations the article mentions are nowhere near what we call postsecondary. Many of those Sikh immigrants from Punjab, a state in India with almost as many people as Canada, typically complete ten years of school, some in English and some in Punjabi, then take two years of "college" for a "degree." I get to test their skills and abilities later and most of them are nowhere near Grade 12. Nor are they taking skilled and professional jobs, but mostly low end service occupations.
The immigrants who actually do get advanced educations are in even worse shape when they come here, since their credentials are not recognized. Immigration Canada is happy to let in doctors and nurses, but we they get to Toronto, Montreal or Vancouver they find the College of Physicians will give them next to no credit. They practically have to do med school all over again and they won't even let them work as hospital orderlies without doing a five month certificate program first.
Every time I take a cab in a Canadian city I asked the driver what degree he's got (it's never a woman), and my God I've met a lot of engineers, lawyers, academics, and other professionals. No wonder they give up on their old careers and try small business. We're wasting them.
The immigrants who actually do get advanced educations are in even worse shape when they come here, since their credentials are not recognized. Immigration Canada is happy to let in doctors and nurses, but we they get to Toronto, Montreal or Vancouver they find the College of Physicians will give them next to no credit. They practically have to do med school all over again and they won't even let them work as hospital orderlies without doing a five month certificate program first.
Every time I take a cab in a Canadian city I asked the driver what degree he's got (it's never a woman), and my God I've met a lot of engineers, lawyers, academics, and other professionals. No wonder they give up on their old careers and try small business. We're wasting them.
6
Interestingly, low skill, poorly educated immigrants from Mexico and Central America don't make the cut? In other words- they pick their immigrants, they don't take just anyone coming over the border. This would be a great plan for the US and we can get rid of the H1B program which largely benefits the Tata company in India to the exclusion of individuals.
11
Let's see. Canada has a little more than a tenth of our population. It is a net energy and resource exporter. If it keeps its head it may actually figure out how to reign its population in before it becomes ridiculously over populated, polluted and, despite obamas effort to drill everywhere an energy importer, like its southern neighbor. They are a 21 st century version of what we were 200 years ago. An resource rich, empty continent. Screw it up like we did and continue to do, and they'll look just as bad as we do now. Sure, it helps, particularly
now, to be selective of who you let in- our and europes policies are proving that. But There's nothing magic about Canada. It's just simple numbers. They're empty. We aren't.
now, to be selective of who you let in- our and europes policies are proving that. But There's nothing magic about Canada. It's just simple numbers. They're empty. We aren't.
6
If only Canada were to admit that their immigration policy was designed from scratch by Donald Trump in 1969 and acknowledge his undisputed genius in anything he undertakes...
4
If we select only the smart and college educated immigrants are we not limiting the future and development of the countries from which they came? Are foreign doctors really as good as American trained doctors and if yes, why do so many of them qualify as psychiarists (can't kill anyone in that profession, patients kill themselves) or work in SNFs where they use their license to write Death Certificates. Can we really select by merit or are we just fooling ourselves?
4
Trumpkins will not be happier with immigrants whose 14-year-old just got a scholarship to MIT. The irony is that Trump won the election because Reagan fumbled the 1986 amnesty and didn't require legislation for onerous criminal penalties for giving undocumented workers a paycheck.
So, can America just get smart and satisfy its people? Every year that we fail to legislate "onerous criminal penalties" onto employers, hundreds of thousands of undocumented workers start a new job.
All non-criminals here can stay for their ump-teen-year path to citizenship, everyone unhappy with that can report to the slaughter houses or the back-breaking fields.
Then it will be done, people, no additional millions. Let's just save our ruthlessness for the employers who forgot who got America into this mess and who think that they'll get away with it again. (Penalty: 1 year per undocumented worker.)
So, can America just get smart and satisfy its people? Every year that we fail to legislate "onerous criminal penalties" onto employers, hundreds of thousands of undocumented workers start a new job.
All non-criminals here can stay for their ump-teen-year path to citizenship, everyone unhappy with that can report to the slaughter houses or the back-breaking fields.
Then it will be done, people, no additional millions. Let's just save our ruthlessness for the employers who forgot who got America into this mess and who think that they'll get away with it again. (Penalty: 1 year per undocumented worker.)
4
Canada has a "ruthlessly smart immigration policy"? That's news to me and many other Canadians.
13
Spot on.
6
Maybe it's news because Canadians are in denial that their immigration is run
primarily for the benefit of people already living there, just as Trump would like to do?
primarily for the benefit of people already living there, just as Trump would like to do?
6
When my husband to be arrived in this country in 1960, he was required to read and speak English. He had to have someone sponsor him and place a $1000 in the bank for a return ticket. Because he came on a student visa, he had to register every year with immigration and he was not supposed to work, but heads were turned since he was accepted in college and ended up at Georgia Tech. With waves of immigrants coming to the US he often asked, 'Where are the requirements?" And he lamented the lack of Americans in tough schools like Georgia Tech and other universities. He lived the American dream and his only regrets were in seeing the invasion of Iraq (he said it would lead to a civil war and chaos in the Middle East) and the slow destruction of democracy in his homeland, Turkey. I am glad he is not alive to see the changes in the United States today. Perhaps Canada would have been a better choice.
10
Please cut some slack for the President of the Electoral College of the United States. This op-ed criticizes him for talking a big game about merit-based immigration but not actually doing anything.
This President doesn't *do* things. He blusters, he insults, he boasts, he whines, he threatens, he tweets and he hangs fake TIME magazine covers featuring his stupendousness in his golf clubhouses.
But doing things? He's too busy being "charlatan-of-the-year" and anyway, real work doing stuff is strictly for losers.
This President doesn't *do* things. He blusters, he insults, he boasts, he whines, he threatens, he tweets and he hangs fake TIME magazine covers featuring his stupendousness in his golf clubhouses.
But doing things? He's too busy being "charlatan-of-the-year" and anyway, real work doing stuff is strictly for losers.
8
Since when did the ideologues at the NY Times decide that ANY country - especially in North America! - had the right to control immigration?
When Barack the Brittle decided to ignore the law of the land regarding immigration, you all cooed and giggled.
So what changed?
Oh - I see. It's another excuse to present the American President as the worst person ever.
Get back to us when you all have an immigrant family living in your apartments with you.
When Barack the Brittle decided to ignore the law of the land regarding immigration, you all cooed and giggled.
So what changed?
Oh - I see. It's another excuse to present the American President as the worst person ever.
Get back to us when you all have an immigrant family living in your apartments with you.
14
Batak the Brittle? You're on to something. How about Barack the Blinder, Barak the Bumbler, Barak the Blip, etc., etc. ? They all fit.... It will take years to undo all the harm he wrought...
5
FYI: Every country (and by this I mean its citizens) has the right to control immigration and all other government aspects and it usually decides so by popular will expressed in national elections and - in many countries which prohibit immigration all together - in its constitution. Every country does so. Of course, some bigger countries (see Germany) bully smaller ones now like 100 or 200 years ago into trampling the will of their citizens to suit their interests and whims. Every country should control and manage immigration trying to look at the effects in 20, 30, 100 years. etc. The US founding fathers - all European heritage - prohibited immigration from third world, non European countries because they took the long term view and need of its citizens into account. The Congress later changed the will of the founding fathers opening a can of worms.
11
There is only one explanation for the fact that Canadians think that multi-culturalism and immigration are good for their country and even rate it higher than hockey - Canada does a better job of educating it citizens.
8
Yet they spend quite a bit less per student.
Perhaps their teachers' unions don't carry much political weight?
Perhaps their teachers' unions don't carry much political weight?
8
l'Os
Our Prime Minister was a school teacher for eight years before entering politics. Like the uS we have some superb teachers and others that have no business in a classroom.
Our Prime Minister was a school teacher for eight years before entering politics. Like the uS we have some superb teachers and others that have no business in a classroom.
4
Let me play the role of a sage by citing "sagacious" remarks. Meden agan (Nothing in excess). "It is not smart to be too smart." Do not be too ruthless.
There is something to be said against admitting too many "highly qualified" immigrants; and something to be said about admitting some unskilled and poorly educated migrants. Deciding on a meritorious immigration policy should take into account "the time and the circumstances." My recommendation requires hard work: :Do what is right and just." Figure out the what and how of "doing what is right and just." Care to make your critiques and contributions?
There is something to be said against admitting too many "highly qualified" immigrants; and something to be said about admitting some unskilled and poorly educated migrants. Deciding on a meritorious immigration policy should take into account "the time and the circumstances." My recommendation requires hard work: :Do what is right and just." Figure out the what and how of "doing what is right and just." Care to make your critiques and contributions?
and I forgot to mention IF you want to emmigrate to Canada, the cost of the paperwork is a staggering $1500 USD, and there is NO guarantee.
6
There is growing a belief that we Americans are xenophobic, driven by some anger over illegal immigration. This is rubbish. The majority of us are at best ambivalent about illegal immigration and what to do about it. We are captive to a small but very vocal minority within the country and treating that voice as truth. Just like those Democrats who thought the GOP was dead because they could not attract Hispanic voters. We are assuming Trump's musing on immigration is the voice of the people. Yet, the people who are being described as anti-illegal immigration voted for Obama twice including once when he trounced Romney who ran the same domestic agenda but with softer edges. Trump's deportation force was once Romney's self-deportation force! Trump won this election because he, like Obama, showed up at town hall meetings and empathised about their problems. He never promised easy solutions but he was there to listen. Hillary may have been the best prepared to be president but she was a terrible politician and elections are won by retail politicians.
Immigration to most Americans is a complex problem. It is a proxy for taxes, education, health care, wages, fairness, law and order, etc. It needs leadership that is currently missing from both sides of the aisle. What we lack right now is not consensus on how to address the problems but leadership to try and fix a complicated problem. We American not longer believe we can solve complex problems. As we now say SAD!
Immigration to most Americans is a complex problem. It is a proxy for taxes, education, health care, wages, fairness, law and order, etc. It needs leadership that is currently missing from both sides of the aisle. What we lack right now is not consensus on how to address the problems but leadership to try and fix a complicated problem. We American not longer believe we can solve complex problems. As we now say SAD!
3
I would like very much to be considered for Canadian citizenship, but my age and retired status make that impossible. I would be happy to "buy in" to the Canadian social system to compensate for not having paid Canadian taxes. I would be happy to spend my comfortable retirement income in Canada. Reviving my French would be a pleasure. I could move some investments into Canadian companies.
But I have no inclination to start a Canadian business. The laws preclude any flexibility, as the article points out. I have made a couple of good decisions, and more often I have been lucky. My failure was in not going to Canada when I had the opportunities--who knew?
But I have no inclination to start a Canadian business. The laws preclude any flexibility, as the article points out. I have made a couple of good decisions, and more often I have been lucky. My failure was in not going to Canada when I had the opportunities--who knew?
9
As I sit here in Montreal, preparing to buy a condo as a rental property (not wealthy enough to just use it the 6 months of the year I'd be allowed to--much less start up a new company here), I couldn't agree more. Wish Canada would let more retirees in, but it's a buyer's market up here as far as immigrants go, and polite and friendly as they are, they just don't need modestly well-off me. So I savor my too brief visits here, bless their far better-regulated banking system (which will be keeping my investments here safe as Wall Street prepares to start spinning its roulette wheel again), and wish them much happiness and success.
9
Many would be willing to help you move...
7
In his harsh immigration rhetoric, Trump has focused on illegal immigrants from South America and the Middle East. Thus far he has silently ignored the largest group of visa violators here who are white Canadians. The other big immigration secrets of Canada is that its head of state is the British Monarch, that it fears the United States is after it's fresh water (one of the largest reserves in the world), and it's Constitution until the 1950s declared that it was "a country for white people." And Canada's ruthless immigration policy with its emphasis on admitting immigrants on "economic grounds" has effectively also maintained that racial demographic ever since. One would hope that a large enough majority of American voters would block that kind of collateral racism in Canada's immigration policies.
7
Have you ever been to Canada? I challenge you to take a walk in any large Canadian city. Your own eyes will refute your assertion of racism in Canada's immigration policies. For that you can look much closer to home.
12
Pretty difficult to be a visa violator when we don't require a visa in the first place.
9
We also have eyes across the border, as well as ears. Multiracial demographics in some large (500K or more) Canadian cities are not reflected in multiracial Canadian media, parliament, provincial government bureaucracy, the RCMP, sports like Hockey, university faculty, and municipal employment. Read your Canadian newspapers, your slick journals ("The Walrus," "McLean's," etc., watch your television news (CBC, ATL etc.): it's hard not to notice the stark white racial homogeneity in Canada's content & ads missing in the United States media.
Could it be that your ruthless class immigration barriers also sustain your racial demographics as much as the barriers permit you to claim all the while that they are not inspired by racism? And does immigration have still to be legally biased if culture alone results in the same racial end, when your government has no affirmative action laws in place to redress it?
And if you permit an American to make an observation from our past that might benefit Canadians, the social and economic qualities you want in your immigrants, along with fluency in French and English, self-segregate your so-called "sensible" immigrant preferences, almost as though your country still preferred people of independent means from France or Britain and its other dominions. Or does the phrase "fast-track business investor/immigrant" ring any bells?
Could it be that your ruthless class immigration barriers also sustain your racial demographics as much as the barriers permit you to claim all the while that they are not inspired by racism? And does immigration have still to be legally biased if culture alone results in the same racial end, when your government has no affirmative action laws in place to redress it?
And if you permit an American to make an observation from our past that might benefit Canadians, the social and economic qualities you want in your immigrants, along with fluency in French and English, self-segregate your so-called "sensible" immigrant preferences, almost as though your country still preferred people of independent means from France or Britain and its other dominions. Or does the phrase "fast-track business investor/immigrant" ring any bells?
5
Canada may be able to put educational, wage, worth, language abilities on immigration, but the US is not Candad. The US has had more open policy for much of it's existence, but not always in limiting people from certain countries and religions many times since the beginning. But net worth and education has never been a criteria, and that has been one of the great things about this country. This characteristic so impressed the French that they made and gave the Statue of Liberty to the US in honor and respect of the cuontry's usual immigration policy to let people into the country from all over the world, those with the most hope, those with th most to gain. And so many have proved this policy the correct one with the immigrants willing to do anything for a job, with their children supassing thei parents, and the next generation evern doing more in education, net worth, giving back to their communities, and more. The US need to continue it's original course not try to transform into a mimic of another.
5
The Statue of Liberty has NOTHING to do with immigration. Read much?
America took the people who didn't fit in Europe and made the world's most free country where the poor worker could improve himself or herself and rise to the top.
Our freedom based on a very small federal government and very large people is what the Statue of Liberty is all about. Countries based on elites call the shots need not aplly.
America took the people who didn't fit in Europe and made the world's most free country where the poor worker could improve himself or herself and rise to the top.
Our freedom based on a very small federal government and very large people is what the Statue of Liberty is all about. Countries based on elites call the shots need not aplly.
7
Canada's immigration policy has proven to been a disaster for long time Vancouver residents as well as young people seeking housing near their places of work. Listen to CBC Vancouver for a few hours. The average home price is $1.1 million dollars. Additionally, the occupancy rate is not consistent with real estate sales, additionally. It is a haven for foreign investors looking to hide capital from taxation. Ever since the city government has imposed a 15% tax on foreign residential real estate purchases, the investments have now shifted southward to the greater Seattle area (I am a resident of a northern suburb of Seattle), even further worsening the housing crunch. It is sad that young teachers and other young middle class workers can't afford to live in either area anymore.
10
And what one city represents all of the USA?
2
Is it the open immigration policy or foreign buyers who don't live in Canada that are the cause of the spike in real estate costs in Vancouver (to say nothing of Toronto)? Our immigration policies have been around much longer than the recent spikes in real estate costs.
8
In 2012 the U.S. suffered a total of 8,813 murders involving the use of firearms. According to a StatsCan report from 2012 – the most recent year available Canada, in the same year, recorded 172 firearms-related homicides. If you wanted to get away from war and violence, where would you go?
7
The result of the current immigration policy has created a large, staggering under-class of people who live in a dehumanized poverty un-imaginable in the poorest European country, and who are a shocking reality to all the European visitors.
13
You did get Wayne Gretzky, if that makes anyone feel any better.
2
Not only is the grass greener, the snow is "whiter."
4
And the trees higher, but the bacon crisper? Not so much...
3
Big problem with Canada: you can't buy Canadian bacon. Sad
1
want people here who speak the language, know the culture, have at least a high school degree, who are willing to work hard, who have been carefully and thoroughly vetted, who would be loyal American citizens; in short, who would be assets?
the Dreamers.
the Dreamers.
11
This editorial rings true. However, it says nothing about " Canadian Experience" a term used to nullify much foreign education and work experience when new Canadians arrive. Talk to a cab driver or two, perhaps a Tim Hortons worker, and find out about how their education and work experience is deemed irrelevant because it is not " Canadian experience". In theory Canadian immigration is something the USA could learn and borrow from, but skilled worker class does not always equate to finding a good skilled job once on the ground in Canada. Ask anyone in Canada who works with " landed immigrants", go to a career expo, network with new Canadians trying to get their foot in the door and one will undoubtedly hear the term " Canadian experience".
3
Immigrants are what made America great, not clinging to a 1950's era nostalgia for white male dominance. I personally love the idea of merit-based immigration. As far as I am concerned, if you are a foreign national who graduates from an American university with a STEM degree, we should offer you citizenship. If you are a foreigner working a STEM field in this country, or are a leading researcher or business owner in a foreign country, we should offer you citizenship. There is nothing shameful about poaching the best and brightest from our competitors in the global economy.
The Statue of Liberty says: “Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free.” It never said they ALL had to be tired and poor. You can let the educated and skilled in, too! If you have the goods, our door should be wiiiiide open.
The Statue of Liberty says: “Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free.” It never said they ALL had to be tired and poor. You can let the educated and skilled in, too! If you have the goods, our door should be wiiiiide open.
3
In many cases, you're taking the educated and skilled in from the poor countries that educated them and -- especially in health care -- need them. I'm not convinced this is a great thing.
4
No Steve. We should NOT offer citizenship to foreign students who graduate with a STEM degree. That would mean the effective immigration decisions would be made by university admissions offices.
That is not a good idea on so many levels.
That is not a good idea on so many levels.
7
Canada does few things right --- Immigration is one that has been done really well.
Americans deserve to be selective about who they let into their country and under which conditions. Canadians do this as a normal practice. The results are clear.
Sadly, American fixation with race has put common sense on the back-burner. Common sense says that immigration should be prioritized for those who speak English and have skills needed by the American economy.
So-called 'liberal' Americans mistakenly argue that language and job-skills tests are a ploy to keep America 'white'. That is utter nonsense.
Just take a peek up north. Insisting on language and job skills (and rigorous criminal background checks!) has not resulted in any kind of race-specific immigration.
The evidence speaks loud and clear. Accept it.
Americans deserve to be selective about who they let into their country and under which conditions. Canadians do this as a normal practice. The results are clear.
Sadly, American fixation with race has put common sense on the back-burner. Common sense says that immigration should be prioritized for those who speak English and have skills needed by the American economy.
So-called 'liberal' Americans mistakenly argue that language and job-skills tests are a ploy to keep America 'white'. That is utter nonsense.
Just take a peek up north. Insisting on language and job skills (and rigorous criminal background checks!) has not resulted in any kind of race-specific immigration.
The evidence speaks loud and clear. Accept it.
2
Funny how Americans disparage Canadians but live to take their money. The west coast Florida economy would collapse into one of the areas many sinkhole if it weren't for the Canadian snowbirds that flock down in the winter. I have yet to hear a Canadian say they wish they had our health care system back in the provinces. I only hope they don't decide to build a border wall to keep expatriate Americans out as conditions continue to tank here.
8
That's terrific, because a population equal to Canada, and Australia combined have moved here in the past 20 years!
'95 US pop 266 million. '15 US pop 322 million.
And we accomplished that feat with a negative birthrate! 1.8 to 1.9 during the past 20 years.
Where did those folks come from? We have two states where 25% of the pop is foreign born. That's not xenophobia, it's an open border and poor planning by a dysfunctional Congress. Anyone remember what President Clinton said in 1996? He was right.
Worst, $65 million of illegal drugs cross our Southern border, mainly heroin and fentanyl. It gets to the streets and sells for cheap. A whole lot cheaper than opiate pills.
Clinton had no idea that would happen.
'95 US pop 266 million. '15 US pop 322 million.
And we accomplished that feat with a negative birthrate! 1.8 to 1.9 during the past 20 years.
Where did those folks come from? We have two states where 25% of the pop is foreign born. That's not xenophobia, it's an open border and poor planning by a dysfunctional Congress. Anyone remember what President Clinton said in 1996? He was right.
Worst, $65 million of illegal drugs cross our Southern border, mainly heroin and fentanyl. It gets to the streets and sells for cheap. A whole lot cheaper than opiate pills.
Clinton had no idea that would happen.
9
Hawk. You talk as though an unending supply of poor, uneducated people with huge families is a bad thing coming to your country. As we and Europe continue to run this experiment, it will be interesting when the facts finally dawn on us that this can't ever work.
4
I was sworn in NYC in 2004. In a room of 1000 people only 8 were white.
95% of the immigrants looked like a third world slum: ugly, decrepit, old, poor, and they could barely speak or understood English although by the time they were admitted they had spent 5 to 10 years in the US. The immigration "exam" was a joke for most of these people couldn't answer if they tied their shoes, had anyone asked. The customs officers were relieved when they saw me and finally found someone who looked civilized and spoke with ease. It was very depressing to see what American immigration had become. Certainly not what I had expected while living in Europe and watching US movies.
As for President Trump, he had said in the first debate that he was for universal healthcare which worked well in Canada. His fellow Republicans were quick to explain to him that universal healthcare is 'unAmerican' and Trump has since changed his position. But his instincts are always spots on- like it or not - and in tune with what people want.
95% of the immigrants looked like a third world slum: ugly, decrepit, old, poor, and they could barely speak or understood English although by the time they were admitted they had spent 5 to 10 years in the US. The immigration "exam" was a joke for most of these people couldn't answer if they tied their shoes, had anyone asked. The customs officers were relieved when they saw me and finally found someone who looked civilized and spoke with ease. It was very depressing to see what American immigration had become. Certainly not what I had expected while living in Europe and watching US movies.
As for President Trump, he had said in the first debate that he was for universal healthcare which worked well in Canada. His fellow Republicans were quick to explain to him that universal healthcare is 'unAmerican' and Trump has since changed his position. But his instincts are always spots on- like it or not - and in tune with what people want.
10
1. I believe he said "single payer" in that debate. Single payer healthcare and universal healthcare are different.
2. As for Trump being "In tune with what people want", he was voted in by ~19% of the population (about a quarter of the eligible voting population). As hard as it is to believe, minority Americans/immigrants are economically conservative. They tend to be pro-business, like a smaller state and are not too hot on government spending programmes. At any rate, they don't exhibit anything resembling the sort affinity for government programmes that we see in Europe. The liberals singing praises of Europe and its "modern", "civilised" welfare programmes are often Caucasian Americans. Maybe this has something to do with their very recent cultural memory of deprivation at the hands of Europeans who then used that stolen wealth to fund their welfare programmes?
2. As for Trump being "In tune with what people want", he was voted in by ~19% of the population (about a quarter of the eligible voting population). As hard as it is to believe, minority Americans/immigrants are economically conservative. They tend to be pro-business, like a smaller state and are not too hot on government spending programmes. At any rate, they don't exhibit anything resembling the sort affinity for government programmes that we see in Europe. The liberals singing praises of Europe and its "modern", "civilised" welfare programmes are often Caucasian Americans. Maybe this has something to do with their very recent cultural memory of deprivation at the hands of Europeans who then used that stolen wealth to fund their welfare programmes?
1
Trump was voted by 30 states out of 50.
"The customs officers were relieved when they saw me and finally found someone who looked civilized and spoke with ease"
What an awful attitude - shame you didn't stay across the pond.
What an awful attitude - shame you didn't stay across the pond.
5
The downside is wage deflation for professionals. Doctors, dentist, architects, engineers all make less in Canada than in the U.S. Skilled trades are also hit.
Lawyers seem to exempt, as it also seems to be a #1 profession for politicians.
Also - the family reunification is brutal. Immigrants are more family oriented, and this may the Achilles heel to this policy. For child care - it is easier to get a Filipino nanny in the country then your mother-in-law.
Lawyers seem to exempt, as it also seems to be a #1 profession for politicians.
Also - the family reunification is brutal. Immigrants are more family oriented, and this may the Achilles heel to this policy. For child care - it is easier to get a Filipino nanny in the country then your mother-in-law.
1
It is a known fact that people in third world countries with less education start having children very early and have 1o children. The current system has encouraged for decades the chain-importation of these people to the detriment of nominal, merit based immigration. A Somali woman with no skills and education cam bring her 10-12 relatives, and each of her imported relatives will bring his or her chain of 12-12 relatives which makes this process unsustainable and unproductive. Meanwhile a single child-free scientist or artist or businessman can't come to the US even when he or she is an outstanding individual. The current bar is set unrealistically high for accomplished people and rock bottom for all the people with a relative in the US.
12
You are so right about the Somali immigration. I witness this on a near-daily basis as my church is a "sponsor" of two such families. Tutors offer free ESL classes 4 days a wk. It quickly went from 12 students (all adults) to one or two, but these tutors trudge along anyhow in our building. We had no idea just how many people we were going to end up with, and now what? Two families = two parents, 10 children each family and then these other adult relatives somehow got added on.
10
Our immigration "policy" and I use the word loosely, is based on uniting families. Not on what's best for u.s. citizens. Recent immigrants may, u can manipulated the numbers, cause less crime than native Americans, however, this IS NOT true of the 2nd and 3rd generations. We have an extravagant over supply of poor, uneducated, unskilled people now. Time to change our criteria for who comes in and who they can bring with them.
5
Canada doesn't have millions of uneducated, low-skilled people crossing its borders. Their attitudes about immigration would surely change if they did. I'd also be interested to know how they handle special worker visas like our H1-B. My guess is that they are very good at keeping out people whose "skills" are doing for less money jobs that Canadians could do. There is also a high rate of Canadian immigrants immigrating again to the U.S. as soon as they can -- in other words, parking themselves in Canada until the U.S. allows them in.
11
"Canada doesn't have millions of uneducated, low-skilled people crossing its borders."
neither does America. But I've met quite a few uneducated Americans living here, taking low wage jobs or welfare. In the 60s, Canada had it's share of draft dodgers - most of them had no experience or education either. You were saying?
neither does America. But I've met quite a few uneducated Americans living here, taking low wage jobs or welfare. In the 60s, Canada had it's share of draft dodgers - most of them had no experience or education either. You were saying?
3
The only draft dodger I met was in the early seventies at the U of A in Edmonton. Some of them must have been furthering their education in Canada And most of the Syrian refugees brought in by the resettlement program - the government re unskilled, with low levels of education, and no language skills - the government rationale that they would be self-sufficient after one year of support was obviously unrealistic.
1
Contrary to Jonathon Tepperman's smug and politicized opinion piece, recent migrants to Canada are being held in legal limbo as the surge in migrant numbers have overwhelmed Canada's bureaucracy. When those migrants finally see their cases ruled on, many will deported given that they aren't in Canada because of "war or political prosecution" in other countries.
In contrast to the U.S.'s 240 million people, Canada has a population of 35 million, most of whom are of European heritage. Canada for the most part doesn't have the problems of demographics failing to assimilate into a Western culture like the United States currently does. Comparing Canada and the U.S. on admitting migrants and immigrants is naively comparing apples to oranges.
In contrast to the U.S.'s 240 million people, Canada has a population of 35 million, most of whom are of European heritage. Canada for the most part doesn't have the problems of demographics failing to assimilate into a Western culture like the United States currently does. Comparing Canada and the U.S. on admitting migrants and immigrants is naively comparing apples to oranges.
10
Yes, Canada's merit-based immigration policy makes much better sense that the U.S. immigration policy which sets aside large portions of immigration slots for family-based immigration.
Furthermore, in general, Canada is a great country with much to commend.
However, before getting too starry-eyed about Canada,
consider this --
http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/11-008-x/2010002/t/11287/tbl001-eng.htm
http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/11-008-x/2010002/t/11287/tbl001-fra.htm
In short, people vote with their feet:
For decades, on a net basis, the USA attracted immigrants from Canada itself:
For decades, net "migration" has flowed from Canada to the USA:
Persons born in Canada who migrated to the USA outnumbered persons born in the USA who migrated to Canada.
Furthermore, persons born in the USA who had previously migrated to Canada and then returned to the USA outnumbered persons born in Canada who had previously migrated to the USA and then returned to Canada.
Finally, and most revealing of all, persons born in third countries who had previously migrated to Canada and then migrated onwards to the USA outnumbered persons born in third countries who had previously migrated to the USA and then migrated onwards to Canada.
Somehow, in the end, they found their way to Rick's.
Will this continue in this decade and in the next decade?
Maybe.
Maybe not.
Time will tell.
Just remember, people who vote seriously vote with their feet,
not with comments in the media or on the internet.
Furthermore, in general, Canada is a great country with much to commend.
However, before getting too starry-eyed about Canada,
consider this --
http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/11-008-x/2010002/t/11287/tbl001-eng.htm
http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/11-008-x/2010002/t/11287/tbl001-fra.htm
In short, people vote with their feet:
For decades, on a net basis, the USA attracted immigrants from Canada itself:
For decades, net "migration" has flowed from Canada to the USA:
Persons born in Canada who migrated to the USA outnumbered persons born in the USA who migrated to Canada.
Furthermore, persons born in the USA who had previously migrated to Canada and then returned to the USA outnumbered persons born in Canada who had previously migrated to the USA and then returned to Canada.
Finally, and most revealing of all, persons born in third countries who had previously migrated to Canada and then migrated onwards to the USA outnumbered persons born in third countries who had previously migrated to the USA and then migrated onwards to Canada.
Somehow, in the end, they found their way to Rick's.
Will this continue in this decade and in the next decade?
Maybe.
Maybe not.
Time will tell.
Just remember, people who vote seriously vote with their feet,
not with comments in the media or on the internet.
4
I am only guessing that many more Americans would move to Canada if Canada would let them. But as it is today it is near to impossible for us to move there.
If we take x amount from Canada annually then there should be a reciprocal agreement to accept that x amount of Americans in return.
If we take x amount from Canada annually then there should be a reciprocal agreement to accept that x amount of Americans in return.
10
Gee whiz,
I thought the prevailing wisdom was that it was the U.S. that was "restrictionist".
I thought the prevailing wisdom was that it was the U.S. that was "restrictionist".
Canada's awesome, and this is a thought-provoking piece I almost totally agree with. Almost.
Immigrants to Canada largely fly there. In other words, they have the means to get families onto airplanes, and if not, ships. Immigrants to the US walk through hundreds of miles of perilous, lawless country with nothing. Many Canadian immigrants come with some education. That's awesome. Most Mexican and Central American immigrants don't. We educate them from the ground up.
I'm a teacher and am fiercely pro-immigration. Our southern immigrants make our economy work, and they deserve better than the vilification they receive. But Canada doesn't have the same set of concerns with immigration that the US does. Will Canada accommodate our immigrants as well? Let's share them all.
Immigrants to Canada largely fly there. In other words, they have the means to get families onto airplanes, and if not, ships. Immigrants to the US walk through hundreds of miles of perilous, lawless country with nothing. Many Canadian immigrants come with some education. That's awesome. Most Mexican and Central American immigrants don't. We educate them from the ground up.
I'm a teacher and am fiercely pro-immigration. Our southern immigrants make our economy work, and they deserve better than the vilification they receive. But Canada doesn't have the same set of concerns with immigration that the US does. Will Canada accommodate our immigrants as well? Let's share them all.
3
If Canada is so wise and wonderful maybe they should take in say 100,000 Central Americans each year to lessen our load so to speak.
6
You have been sharing them. Immigrants who now feel unwelcome in the USA have been walking across the Canada/U.S. border in large numbers in the last six months. They have to enter illegally because the Safe Third Country Agreement means Canadian border officials would by law be required to send them back to the USA where - in fact - they do not feel at all safe. So they walk across the border in the dead of night knowing they will be arrested, but also knowing they will be given a refugee hearing and legal aid to guide them through the process once here.
2
Canada has taken in close to 50K Syrian refugees in the last two years, despite the fact that most of the mess they are fleeing is attributable to American meddling and incomptence.
Your president has banned refugees from Syria. You're on your own.
Your president has banned refugees from Syria. You're on your own.
4
A change in American immigration policy to favor better skilled and educated workers over family unification is long overdo. But it requires a basic change in mindset to one where immigration policy is primarily about what is best for the United States as a whole. It would also probably help increase wages for low skill American workers as well.
14
Canada puts the United States to shame on almost every policy front.
14
I'd love a merit-based immigration policy, where newcomers were expected to get skilled jobs and participate in our society. What we have now is a flood of uneducated and unskilled workers coming from Mexico and Central America. Let's keep the good fish and throw back the bad.
14
If the U.S. has a problem with Mexican migrants it should consider the possibility that American and IMF economic policies including NAFTA have led to millions of peasant farmers leaving their land. With no prospects in their own country they have moved north.
The last good thing America did in the world was the Marshall plan. The rest has been a stew of bungling and brutality from the Bay of Pigs to Iraq and Syria. Americans are currently up in arms over supposed Russian meddling in their election and have no memory of their own much more brutal meddling in the politics of Iran, Nicaragua and Chile to name a few. All of that, by the way, related to American economic interests and not the best interests of the citizens of those nations.
The last good thing America did in the world was the Marshall plan. The rest has been a stew of bungling and brutality from the Bay of Pigs to Iraq and Syria. Americans are currently up in arms over supposed Russian meddling in their election and have no memory of their own much more brutal meddling in the politics of Iran, Nicaragua and Chile to name a few. All of that, by the way, related to American economic interests and not the best interests of the citizens of those nations.
14
Immigrants to the US also tend to work harder than native born Americans. I think there must be a certain quality of initiative that causes people to emigrate in the first place.
4
Borders are for losers--imaginary lines that exist only in the minds of humans brainwashed since birth to believe in nations, which are also invisible constructs of men. Ever notice how bears, wolves, fish, etc., don't really pay much attention to these concepts? If it were a natural phenomenon, it stands to reason we'd see it manifest in a LOT more species. It's yet another pathetic attempt by homo erectus to impose its idea of order on a universe that swats aside every such attempt laughing.
1
Excellence the comment. I for on have always been impressed with the civilizations created by bears, wolves, fishes, and weird thinkers...
6
Alas, had Canada not required merit-based settlement we would not have been blessed with Senator Ted Cruz. Of all the words of tongue and pen, the saddest are "It might have been."
9
LOL - but unfortunately, Cruz was born here and we can't - and don't - hold those already here to nearly as high a standard as we do immigrants.
3
Ah, but Cruz pere might have stayed and spared us fils.
1
Comparing Canada to the U.S. with regards to immigration policy is like comparing a peanut to a watermelon. The author does not write one word about farm workers. Canada does not have a California, a huge agricultural producer, the number one farm state in the U.S., and also shares a border with Mexico. California used to be part of Mexico. Texas is a top 3 farm state, also shares a border with and used to be part of Mexico. None of these historical, geographical, or agricultural factors apply to Canada. Zero.
It might be convenient for the author to ignore this but it's totally unrealistic.
It might be convenient for the author to ignore this but it's totally unrealistic.
42
Actually, we have a thriving agricultural industry. It's one of our biggest. And it employs a large number of workers from Mexico, Guatemala, etc. They're admitted on seasonal guest worker visas.
6
Sorry. You are wrong. Canada (in fact) *does* account for a disproportionately high number of temporary and agricultural workers. This is woven into our immigration and tax policies (and has been for years).
Statistically, the number of seasonal farm workers has DOUBLED in the past decade in Canada. Illegal immigration has not.
The American issue with illegal Mexican farm labor is self-perpetuated. Employers want cheap labor and illegal Mexican workers provide it.
In Canada, employers are subject-to genuine civil penalties and even criminal prosecution for hiring illegal immigrants (We don't use sugary terms like "undocumented workers"; they are "illegal immigrants").
I don't agree with very much that Trump has said about immigrants. Having said this, he's bang-on with his comments on a merit-based system.
Statistically, the number of seasonal farm workers has DOUBLED in the past decade in Canada. Illegal immigration has not.
The American issue with illegal Mexican farm labor is self-perpetuated. Employers want cheap labor and illegal Mexican workers provide it.
In Canada, employers are subject-to genuine civil penalties and even criminal prosecution for hiring illegal immigrants (We don't use sugary terms like "undocumented workers"; they are "illegal immigrants").
I don't agree with very much that Trump has said about immigrants. Having said this, he's bang-on with his comments on a merit-based system.
7
That's the point isn't it? US agribusiness has grown faster and bigger on a diet of unfettered unregulated employment, and would implode if subjected to the kinds of regulations on seasonal workers used by Canada. Canada's model is sustainable, while the US is in convulsions.
5
Bravo for sanity. That said, if memory serves, there has been a backlash regarding the religious practices of Muslims -- demanding time for the daily prayer schedule, the burka. Neither has a place in secular society and is non-assimilation in practice. Multiculturalism has its limits. Remember too that immigrants should be additive to the society they wish to join -- leaving the humanitarian issue as a separate discussion and being applied under more extraordinary circumstances.
10
Hey Richard, are you additive? What did you bring to the Native Americans?
5
Yeah well, us westerners don't always "comply" with dress standards in the foreign countries we visit and live in as oil workers etc. do we?
Why the double standards, the air of superiority?
Why the double standards, the air of superiority?
4
Native born so moot point. I guess you wish to go back to Columbus --
Without going much further, I can ask the same question of you, but I suspect I might know the answer.
And that discussion goes much deeper.
Without going much further, I can ask the same question of you, but I suspect I might know the answer.
And that discussion goes much deeper.
2
I’m married to a Canadian, so I have a sensitivity to all things Canadian. When I read the headline for this article, I thought that this would be yet another occasion when I’d forward an article to my wife so that she, with the perpetual Canadian chip on her expat shoulder, could be proud. But as I read the article, I wondered: is a “merit”-based immigration system such a good thing?
The inscription from Emma Lazarus above which the Statue of Liberty stands reads: “Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free.” It does not read: “Give me your able, your well-to-do, your folks who would still have it pretty good if they were to stay put.”
I love my wife. I appreciate her heritage. But I don’t think Canada quite has it right on this one. Having an immigration system that focuses so intently on “merit” presupposes that certain people are worth more than others, as much a faulty premise in everyday life as immigration policy.
This reminds me of the debate about affirmative action and admission policies at universities. The point is that “merit” is a loaded term, and a system that rewards only “merit” is stacked against those who start life with fewer resources than others. Moreover, getting the smartest people in the room isn’t the only end. Getting a diverse group of people with different backgrounds and viewpoints is perhaps just as important.
The inscription from Emma Lazarus above which the Statue of Liberty stands reads: “Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free.” It does not read: “Give me your able, your well-to-do, your folks who would still have it pretty good if they were to stay put.”
I love my wife. I appreciate her heritage. But I don’t think Canada quite has it right on this one. Having an immigration system that focuses so intently on “merit” presupposes that certain people are worth more than others, as much a faulty premise in everyday life as immigration policy.
This reminds me of the debate about affirmative action and admission policies at universities. The point is that “merit” is a loaded term, and a system that rewards only “merit” is stacked against those who start life with fewer resources than others. Moreover, getting the smartest people in the room isn’t the only end. Getting a diverse group of people with different backgrounds and viewpoints is perhaps just as important.
17
@ Steven Austin your comment makes clearer what I allude to in my main comment, that the author, Tepperman, should have told us if Canada has a separate policy for asylum seekers. Then he could have explained the rules that apply to those who cannot claim refugee status but simply want to come to Canada and eventually become citizens.
I have met easily more than 2000 asylum seekers in my 15 or so years as a volunteer at the Red Cross. Many of these have no record of merits because they never went to school at all or because they only went to school for perhaps up to 6 years. Some fraction of these will show that although they never had a chance in their home country, given the chance in Sweden, they can demonstrate that in time they can become just as valuable as some of the carefully selected immigrants.
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
Dual citizen US SE
I have met easily more than 2000 asylum seekers in my 15 or so years as a volunteer at the Red Cross. Many of these have no record of merits because they never went to school at all or because they only went to school for perhaps up to 6 years. Some fraction of these will show that although they never had a chance in their home country, given the chance in Sweden, they can demonstrate that in time they can become just as valuable as some of the carefully selected immigrants.
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
Dual citizen US SE
3
If Canada's policy wasn't what it is then my middle-class Iranian parents wouldn't have been able to escape the oppression and limitations they suffered in their own country. It was precisely because my parents worked hard as students, earned graduate degrees, and became successful young professionals that they were able to come to Canada.
How's that for merit.
Why resent Canadians our current highly successful system in favour of some lesser version that's bound to leave almost everybody worse off. I've grown up witnessing the wonders of our system and I am eternally grateful that it exists. I've seen countless numbers of my first generation immigrant peers vault themselves to heights unseen in countries with policies that are closer to what you're advocating.
Good grief.
How's that for merit.
Why resent Canadians our current highly successful system in favour of some lesser version that's bound to leave almost everybody worse off. I've grown up witnessing the wonders of our system and I am eternally grateful that it exists. I've seen countless numbers of my first generation immigrant peers vault themselves to heights unseen in countries with policies that are closer to what you're advocating.
Good grief.
14
Canada recently admitted 25,000 Syrian refugees. Canada was also accepting of Vietnamese boat people as well as other refugees. So not all immigrants are accepted on a "merit-based" policy.
4
Is there anyway we can deport Justin Bieber and Celine Dion back to Canada?
We'll keep Capt. Kirk, however.
We'll keep Capt. Kirk, however.
10
mookie....if you knew the actual list of canadians both now--and in the past--who many americans think are americans, you'd faint. also, many that had a canadian parent(s) who'd moved to the states.
5
I'll keep Mr. Spock and the rest of Enterprise crew too.
1
You can try beaming them up.
from the Calgary Herald, 2016:
“There’s a joke in Toronto that the best place to have a heart attack is in a cab because there’ll be a doctor driving that cab,” said Margaret Eaton, executive director of the Toronto Region Immigrant Employment Council.
In reality, fewer than one per cent of immigrant doctors drove taxis, according to the 2011 National Household Survey.
But almost half never get to practice medicine in Canada.
Instead, they wind up as nurses, sonographers and care aides, among other related fields that don’t use their full skill set, even though they may have years of experience abroad.
This is a common experience for skilled immigrants.
Academic studies show that those who do find work in their field often end up working below their level of qualifications.
In Ontario, many foreign-born and educated engineers have ended up becoming IT managers, janitors and truck drivers, 2011 data shows. Top jobs for foreign-born and educated accountants outside of their field include bookkeeping, serving food and working as cashiers.
http://calgaryherald.com/storyline/skilled-immigrants-wasting-their-tale...
“There’s a joke in Toronto that the best place to have a heart attack is in a cab because there’ll be a doctor driving that cab,” said Margaret Eaton, executive director of the Toronto Region Immigrant Employment Council.
In reality, fewer than one per cent of immigrant doctors drove taxis, according to the 2011 National Household Survey.
But almost half never get to practice medicine in Canada.
Instead, they wind up as nurses, sonographers and care aides, among other related fields that don’t use their full skill set, even though they may have years of experience abroad.
This is a common experience for skilled immigrants.
Academic studies show that those who do find work in their field often end up working below their level of qualifications.
In Ontario, many foreign-born and educated engineers have ended up becoming IT managers, janitors and truck drivers, 2011 data shows. Top jobs for foreign-born and educated accountants outside of their field include bookkeeping, serving food and working as cashiers.
http://calgaryherald.com/storyline/skilled-immigrants-wasting-their-tale...
8
This same thing happens in " first world" nations all over the globe.
11
This is true of native-born professionals also, so not sure what point you are trying to make.
1
I guess that my several Canadian friends (none of whom know each other and who live in different cities: Toronto, Vancouver and Montreal) and who all have similar complaints regarding the flood of immigrants, the resulting increase in crime and the many cultural clashes, are all in some unaware minority.
WhIle I abhor Trump, I also think that US Immigration policy is absurdly loose. The US is free to let anybody in for any reason and equally free to forbid entry to anybody - also for any reason.
Only US citizens have a right of entry. As silly as it might be - if the US decides to forbid entry to right-handed, brown eyed people - it may do so. Period. The US Constitution does not apply to foreigners any more than a foreign constitution applies to us. While this policy or that might be prejudicial for or against a particular country - the citizens of that country have *no* US Constitutional rights!
Sorry.
BTW and FWIW - Trump is (IMO), the worst president the US has ever had.
When my grandparents came, they became Americans. They paid their taxes, their kids served in the armed forces, they spoke their native language at home but they learned English, my parents did not get ESL schooling, did not turn their neighborhood into a no-go zone, etc., etc., etc.
WhIle I abhor Trump, I also think that US Immigration policy is absurdly loose. The US is free to let anybody in for any reason and equally free to forbid entry to anybody - also for any reason.
Only US citizens have a right of entry. As silly as it might be - if the US decides to forbid entry to right-handed, brown eyed people - it may do so. Period. The US Constitution does not apply to foreigners any more than a foreign constitution applies to us. While this policy or that might be prejudicial for or against a particular country - the citizens of that country have *no* US Constitutional rights!
Sorry.
BTW and FWIW - Trump is (IMO), the worst president the US has ever had.
When my grandparents came, they became Americans. They paid their taxes, their kids served in the armed forces, they spoke their native language at home but they learned English, my parents did not get ESL schooling, did not turn their neighborhood into a no-go zone, etc., etc., etc.
24
Possible I know of one of your several Canadian friends. The rest of my friends seem to have no problems with it.
4
By your rationale, people who have waited and gotten their green cards after years of waiting should be disallowed into the US. Sorry, but that is not up to the US. Legal immigrants followed every law in the book to become what they are and no one can forbid them entry into the country unless they committed a serious crime. This type of xenophobia would become the end of prosperous America.
Untrue. Green card holders are subject to and protected by all us laws including the constitution. There is also a long history of constitutional potection extended to non us citizens on us soil.
3
"...having been evaluated under a nine-point rubric that ignores their race, religion and ethnicity and instead looks at their age, education, job skills, language ability and other attributes that define their potential contribution to the national work force."
They have left us with the "tired and the poor" so it would seem. That wouldn't be immigration on a humanitarian scale then, would it? They pick and choose, reject the halt and the lame, the blind, and the ignorant. The great brain-drain, which on the face of it seems no better than giving out citizenship based on how many dollars you bring with and what business you might start.
The best immigration policy is one that excludes all, but the world gets together to help imporve living conditions in the countries where these people seem to be forced to leave. Pretty soon, there won't be a Canada,, just like there is less and less of Sweden for all the immigrants they take in. According to family, that is soon coming to a halt, universal health care is a JOKE, hospitals practically close over the summer, elective surgery could take 3-4 years, etc. Beggars on every corner, crime, guns--all the things that were never there before modern immigration policies. There's a utopia around every corner.
They have left us with the "tired and the poor" so it would seem. That wouldn't be immigration on a humanitarian scale then, would it? They pick and choose, reject the halt and the lame, the blind, and the ignorant. The great brain-drain, which on the face of it seems no better than giving out citizenship based on how many dollars you bring with and what business you might start.
The best immigration policy is one that excludes all, but the world gets together to help imporve living conditions in the countries where these people seem to be forced to leave. Pretty soon, there won't be a Canada,, just like there is less and less of Sweden for all the immigrants they take in. According to family, that is soon coming to a halt, universal health care is a JOKE, hospitals practically close over the summer, elective surgery could take 3-4 years, etc. Beggars on every corner, crime, guns--all the things that were never there before modern immigration policies. There's a utopia around every corner.
11
We also take in thousands of refugees every year. Completely separate issue from immigration.
10
Hospitals close for the summer?!? Universal health care a joke? Crime because of immigrants? Talk about a joke!
6
With all the problems the US has right now, the LAST thing you should be conjecturing about is Canada's future.
We're fine, thank you very much - focus on your own MANY problems.
We're fine, thank you very much - focus on your own MANY problems.
1
When you reach out with an open hand tied to smart common sense immigration policy then you get overall positive results. Here in America we truly don't want immigrants on equal footing with fellow Americans. We prefer the status quo to having ultra dirt cheap labor that we can pay under the table. If we fully integrated the 11 and half million immigrants into our society then they would be subject to labor law and have the right to vote. That what's truly scares the politicians on the Right. A new found American citizen with the ability to vote them out of power.
8
While we are at it, we should also re-amend the Constitution to remove automatic birthright citizenship as enshrined in the 14th amendment.
Once, there was a valid and just reason, mostly to ensure that children of freed slaves were protected and given full benefits and rights of citizenship.
It was never meant for the US born children of IT workers on H1B visas (for example) to automatically become American citizens.
It is absurd. It is widely abused (anchor babies) And no other western country has this.
Once, there was a valid and just reason, mostly to ensure that children of freed slaves were protected and given full benefits and rights of citizenship.
It was never meant for the US born children of IT workers on H1B visas (for example) to automatically become American citizens.
It is absurd. It is widely abused (anchor babies) And no other western country has this.
22
Untrue. Canada has this as well, and it has even been used to extend citizenship to the children of women who gave birth in airplanes that happened to be in Canadian airspace at the time of birth but never landed in Canada.
3
While we're at amending the constitution we should also modify that outdated, misinterpreted menace to public health called the second amendment.
1
Matt - I agree with that too.
1
Missing from this article is the fact that Canada has high barriers to immigrants with disabilities. They don't want anyone that they think might be a drag on social services. I love our neighbors to the north, but their immigration policies are downright Darwinian.
10
The wall Canada has built is the point value system, it avoids a sub-economy for illegal immigrants and allows for people to prepare themselves to contribute to their new home, Canada.
Canada has an advantage in recruiting talent, balance the number of taxpayers as the future depends on new contributors.
And there is one addition, most people can see themselves recognized as Canadians regardless of race, religion and sexual orientation. It forces Canadians to know more about other cultures than their own and embrace traditions from all over the world. In a way, Canada is the antithesis of the US on immigration. So far, without being perfect, it provides a broader unity in politics, less populism, fewer conflicts and more opportunities to prepare many more generations of a multicultural workforce that can influence and benefit from the countries of origin.
Even being a small country at least in population, there is greatness in the way Canada leads by example.
Canada has an advantage in recruiting talent, balance the number of taxpayers as the future depends on new contributors.
And there is one addition, most people can see themselves recognized as Canadians regardless of race, religion and sexual orientation. It forces Canadians to know more about other cultures than their own and embrace traditions from all over the world. In a way, Canada is the antithesis of the US on immigration. So far, without being perfect, it provides a broader unity in politics, less populism, fewer conflicts and more opportunities to prepare many more generations of a multicultural workforce that can influence and benefit from the countries of origin.
Even being a small country at least in population, there is greatness in the way Canada leads by example.
14
This article is really disingenuous, it falsely implies that the difference between Canada and the US is that the US has a family reunification policy for immigration as opposed to Canada's, which has a merit based policy. Canada has family reunification policies too. If a person that immigrates to Canada on his own merit wants to bring his family along he can. And then if he wants to bring his parents/siblings he can. And once his parents and extended family is in Canada they in turn can bring more family. This is the same family reunification policy that exists in the US. The other thing is that you just cannot compare US's immigration policy to another country's. The US's situation and need is unique. This is a super humongous economy that is powered in great measure by the undocumented. You cannot do any serious changes to immigration. Which is why comprehensive immigration reform just will not happen. It cannot.
6
Canada's family reunification policies are much more restrictive than those of the US. A person who has no immediate family in Canada can sponsor a single relative to enter. Canadians who sponsor relatives must also agree to support them financially (and stop them from going on welfare) for up to 20 years. Canada will also outright deny immigration (even to the immediate family of skilled immigrants) if they project that the immigrant's healthcare will cost more than the median per capita healthcare expenditure, eg if a child has autism, or some other serious illness.
The vast majority of Canadian immigrants come directly through the skilled-immigrant program, not the family reunification program. The converse is true in the US.
The vast majority of Canadian immigrants come directly through the skilled-immigrant program, not the family reunification program. The converse is true in the US.
17
If a person that immigrates to Canada on his own merit wants to bring his family along he can. And then if he wants to bring his parents/siblings he can. And once his parents and extended family is in Canada they in turn can bring more family.
sounds like TOO much of a good thing. There must be limits on anything we do or have a very HIGH economic self-sufficiency bar.
sounds like TOO much of a good thing. There must be limits on anything we do or have a very HIGH economic self-sufficiency bar.
3
and you can't emmigrate to Canada IF YOU ARE RETIRED. You are personal non grata.
5
Jonathan Tepperman's opinion, along with its headline, "Canada's Ruthlessly Smart Immigration Policy," begs the question why the majority of our illegal immigrants are Canadian.
2
"the majority of our illegal immigrants are Canadian."
This is not true. According to a recent Pew report, Canada is way, way down on the list.
This is not true. According to a recent Pew report, Canada is way, way down on the list.
3
If you can read (there are lots of graphics) this website http://immigration.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=000845 shows the demographics of illegal immigrants in the US. Canada is not even on the list.
Anyone who DID immigrate illegally from Canada to the US where they have no health care, low minimum wages and risk incarceration/deportation for attempting to educate their children or accessing healthcare in an emergency, would clearly be a fool.
Incidentally, more highly educated immigrants from the US are begging for admission to Canada than ever before since Nov 2016. The Canadian immigrations service cannot even keep up with processing applications.
There are so many "recovered Americans" living in our part of Canada that US presidential campaign drives were held here. Unfortunately, to no avail.
Anyone who DID immigrate illegally from Canada to the US where they have no health care, low minimum wages and risk incarceration/deportation for attempting to educate their children or accessing healthcare in an emergency, would clearly be a fool.
Incidentally, more highly educated immigrants from the US are begging for admission to Canada than ever before since Nov 2016. The Canadian immigrations service cannot even keep up with processing applications.
There are so many "recovered Americans" living in our part of Canada that US presidential campaign drives were held here. Unfortunately, to no avail.
8
Really? That seems unlikely. Where did you get your data?
1
Canada's approach to immigration is smart. So is Australia's. So is New Zealand's. It is smart to be selective, to have a vigorously enforced legal immigration system.
Of course people are supportive of immigrants when they have been very purposely and selectively admitted. What we have allowed to happen is the exact opposite. This has understandably and, predictably, produced a backlash.
Our legal immigration system doesn't admit very many people on purpose, letting in relatives based on nothing through "family reunification".
But the worst aspect of our "immigration" system has been our bi-partisan failure over decades to adequately enforce our immigration system, resulting in millions of illegal "immigrants" who have proceeded to have families to burden schools and entitlement programs. The entire word "immigrant" has become tainted because of this.
Anyone wanting to see what illegal "immigration" can do to a city should read the following editorial from the LA Times. LA has become a third world enclave to be supported by the taxpayers of the US.
http://www.latimes.com/opinion/editorials/la-ed-la-county-ahca-20170627-...
How's that for a statistic: LA now has more Medicaid recipients than 45 states!
Of course people are supportive of immigrants when they have been very purposely and selectively admitted. What we have allowed to happen is the exact opposite. This has understandably and, predictably, produced a backlash.
Our legal immigration system doesn't admit very many people on purpose, letting in relatives based on nothing through "family reunification".
But the worst aspect of our "immigration" system has been our bi-partisan failure over decades to adequately enforce our immigration system, resulting in millions of illegal "immigrants" who have proceeded to have families to burden schools and entitlement programs. The entire word "immigrant" has become tainted because of this.
Anyone wanting to see what illegal "immigration" can do to a city should read the following editorial from the LA Times. LA has become a third world enclave to be supported by the taxpayers of the US.
http://www.latimes.com/opinion/editorials/la-ed-la-county-ahca-20170627-...
How's that for a statistic: LA now has more Medicaid recipients than 45 states!
11
L.A. itself, just the city, has a higher population than 23 states!
Cities are magnets for the needy because they hold a concentration of social services (because this concentration is efficient).
Learn. To. Think.
Cities are magnets for the needy because they hold a concentration of social services (because this concentration is efficient).
Learn. To. Think.
2
Please remember the one common factor all those countries also have. Small population with small families and large areas of unoccupied territory.
America's immigration is molded on a different criteria and has been neglected by our politicians. We have not addressed our immigration laws in 30 years. Thirty years ago they were building cars and ships in Philadelphia and the Naval Yards was not condos but actual navy ships. Live Aid was held at JFK Stadium where Phil Collins played in both London and Philly thanks to the Concorde. Wilson Goode was still the mayor even after he authorised the police to fire bomb an entire neighborhood over a weird noise and nuisance complaint, leading to the rise of Ed Rendell. Finally, Comcast was a small cable company with 1 million customers!
Just think how much has changed since that last immigration laws. No wonder we are struggling to meet the challenges of immigration today.
America's immigration is molded on a different criteria and has been neglected by our politicians. We have not addressed our immigration laws in 30 years. Thirty years ago they were building cars and ships in Philadelphia and the Naval Yards was not condos but actual navy ships. Live Aid was held at JFK Stadium where Phil Collins played in both London and Philly thanks to the Concorde. Wilson Goode was still the mayor even after he authorised the police to fire bomb an entire neighborhood over a weird noise and nuisance complaint, leading to the rise of Ed Rendell. Finally, Comcast was a small cable company with 1 million customers!
Just think how much has changed since that last immigration laws. No wonder we are struggling to meet the challenges of immigration today.
2
If what you say were inescapably true, it would mean that all cities were doomed to have eroding tax bases and a huge population of entitlement collectors. It would be even more "efficient", I guess, with even more concentration. Nothing makes for more concentration and "efficiency" than importing poverty to support. Thanks for the cheery thought.
2
It all depends upon what you mean by merit. Do you mean MBAs who have turned the US away from small market capitalism to giant corporate financialism? People with advanced training willing to work here for less than the workers they would displace (but for more than they would make building their native lands? People who would follow the big bucks rather than their conscience?
Or do you mean merit like a family man or woman willing to work in the hot sun harvesting crops that would have to be plowed under otherwise just to support their kids and give them a chance to do better? Those kind of people, that kind of merit?
Or do you mean merit like a family man or woman willing to work in the hot sun harvesting crops that would have to be plowed under otherwise just to support their kids and give them a chance to do better? Those kind of people, that kind of merit?
7
I am a Canadian who has worked with newcomers to Canada- a term that we prefer to use to immigrants because it is more welcoming. The people I worked with were looking for jobs and sadly the majority ran into our immigration policy dilemma; we have well trained foreign professionals who lack Canadian work experience and can't get hired using their preferred skills.
It takes 8-12 years to get back to the level of income status they enjoyed back home. Some never do. They work as cab drivers, cleaners, if they're lucky doctors work as medical lab technicians here. And they are not often told this will be the case before they arrive so they are justifiably upset. It was my job to help them to gain that Canadian work experience but in doing so I was the bearer of some awful realities. Never stopped one person from taking a job though and not one person asked me about welfare.
It takes 8-12 years to get back to the level of income status they enjoyed back home. Some never do. They work as cab drivers, cleaners, if they're lucky doctors work as medical lab technicians here. And they are not often told this will be the case before they arrive so they are justifiably upset. It was my job to help them to gain that Canadian work experience but in doing so I was the bearer of some awful realities. Never stopped one person from taking a job though and not one person asked me about welfare.
4
I do think we should change "family reunification" policy. We should limit family reunification to father/mother/children under 18.We should eliminate grandparents, aunt, uncles, nephews, nieces etc. etc.
I like the idea of a merit based system and I would include a good temporary work permits so agriculture could get the workers it needs. We used to have a good program like like that called the Bracero Program. It is essential that temporary workers return to their home country when the Visa expires. They should not be eligible for citizenship.
We also need to change our policy with regards to illegal immigrants' children. We need to eliminate ius solis (birthright citizenship). European countries and the UK all have eliminate their birthright citizenship policies and we should do likewise.
I like the idea of a merit based system and I would include a good temporary work permits so agriculture could get the workers it needs. We used to have a good program like like that called the Bracero Program. It is essential that temporary workers return to their home country when the Visa expires. They should not be eligible for citizenship.
We also need to change our policy with regards to illegal immigrants' children. We need to eliminate ius solis (birthright citizenship). European countries and the UK all have eliminate their birthright citizenship policies and we should do likewise.
15
Really? You want to exploit desperate people via a temporary foreign workers program, not even offering them a chance at citizenship in thanks.
Shame (but full disclosure that Canada does that too, and it is just as wrong here).
Shame (but full disclosure that Canada does that too, and it is just as wrong here).
2
The problem with the Bracero Program is that the beneficiaries (farmers) couldn't bothered lifting a finger to enforce that end-of-the-season return. The incentives were upside down.
6
My recollection was that the main complaint about the Bracero program from the left was that is withheld a portion of the wages and that portion could only be collected when the worker returned to his home country.
Withholding wages were done as a way to ensure the worker returned to his home country, not the duty of the employer.
Withholding wages were done as a way to ensure the worker returned to his home country, not the duty of the employer.
3
Here's a nifty little tidbit: by and large immigrants, however they get there, are welcomed as Canadians end encouraged as Canadians to participate and, if they can, to do well. Maybe even provide opportunities for native-born Canadians.
Somehow America, with our penchant for arrogance and nationalism, and our apparent tendency to be afraid of things that aren't easy or familiar, makes our immigrants, even the 'good ones', feel suspected, mistrusted, unwelcome and unwanted.
I'm not saying anything here , but one does wonder if that detracts from the life course of those who had the vision, the will, the resources and the courage to get here in the first place. Seems like a crowd I would want to encourage. Seems like a group that would have much to teach many of our entitled more, umm, selective citizens.
But there's too much political hay to made from hatred. And even our unconscionably rich people live in fear that somebody is going to come along and take their stuff.
Way have many "immigrant problems" for sure. But many of them are self-imposed.
Somehow America, with our penchant for arrogance and nationalism, and our apparent tendency to be afraid of things that aren't easy or familiar, makes our immigrants, even the 'good ones', feel suspected, mistrusted, unwelcome and unwanted.
I'm not saying anything here , but one does wonder if that detracts from the life course of those who had the vision, the will, the resources and the courage to get here in the first place. Seems like a crowd I would want to encourage. Seems like a group that would have much to teach many of our entitled more, umm, selective citizens.
But there's too much political hay to made from hatred. And even our unconscionably rich people live in fear that somebody is going to come along and take their stuff.
Way have many "immigrant problems" for sure. But many of them are self-imposed.
7
I wonder though: is it a good liberal, progressive, recommendable thing to deprive developing countries of their most creative and productive citizens? I think even the FMI has concluded that East European countries, for instance, suffered in terms of growth and public policy - such as fighting corruption and modernizing civil society and state institutions - because of the huge brain drain (and labor drain in general); the same goes for many African countries, for the same reasons. The famous remittances sent home by immigrants only help consumption, not creative activities such as start-ups or other productive local businesses. The loss of young, ambitious, hard working individuals most likely to want to work toward a better economy and a better society is devastating for countries who are already in much weaker position compared to Canada and the US. It is another way of the rich stealing from the poor but with a good conscience this time because the stealing in question is covered up by multiculturalism (another benefit denied to weaker countries). I believe the goal should be to try to minimize inequalities between geographic zones and maybe encourage first world young people to collaborate with their counter parts elsewhere, rather than poaching talent from those already struggling, imho.
12
Tell that to the skilled and well-educated young people facing chronic unemployment at home. I've also read that eastern european countries are havens for hackers precisely because of this problem: they have much more IT-educated young people than they can employ. Silicon Valley, in case you didn't notice, took plenty of US military contracting and at least four generations to become Silicon Valley.
2
What on earth are you thinking? Nobody is "stealing" anyone from anywhere. People want to come to places like the U.S. and Canada because they don't want to remain in the places they're leaving. If those "young, ambitious, hard working individuals [who] most likely to want to work toward a better economy and a better society" you're talking about want to help their homelands, then why don't they stay there and do it? Either you favor immigration or you don't. And here's the bitter truth: We do not need droves of uneducated and unskilled laborers, nor does Canada. Those days and needs are long gone. There is nothing "ruthless" about intelligently conceived and strictly implemented immigration laws.... Without them a nation becomes nothing but part of the Third World the Left is always weeping for...
1
Eastern Europe has problems that go beyond the brain drain.
Just go compare the specifics of the nation that used to be Czechoslovakia. Several years after Communists were driven out in the Velvet Revolution, it broke into two nations, the Czech Republic and Slovakia. They now couldn't be more different from each other, and are good case studies.
Just go compare the specifics of the nation that used to be Czechoslovakia. Several years after Communists were driven out in the Velvet Revolution, it broke into two nations, the Czech Republic and Slovakia. They now couldn't be more different from each other, and are good case studies.
2
I understand that a change to the constitution is necessary to change a policy which presently exists whereby a child born in the US is a US citizen even if the parents are illegal. The families just wait until the child is 18 and then the child acts as a sponsor for the parents immigration. Recently in Orange County, CA. a ring of criminals was broken up whereby they were bringing pregnant Chinese to the the US and arranging for the birth and receiving US passports for the children. $50,000. per mother is my understanding. Are these the types of citizens we want? The constitution was written many years ago. Maybe it is time for some changes!
12
If parents come here illegally, US law allows them to be denied legal immigration, no matter who sponsors them...
2
Of course, but all they have to do is go home when their child turns 18, then wait for their US citizen child to sponsor them, and they go to the head of the line. Who says cheating doesn't pay?
4
These Chinese pregnancy schemes are still in operation. There are many of them in other parts of the country, not just in Cali alone. Many foreigners will do whatever it takes to get here. Some Chinese do it for the state university systems to insure a place for their kid when they return to the US when they turn 18.
4
I'm impressed. A merit-based system certainly seems like the way to go. Can't believe we haven't tried this road yet. I'm all for expedited citizenship for those who want to pay ($2 million for immediate citizenship) as long as they are cleared and fully vetted.
3
Canada had a policy like that for a while, although not quite that blatant. You could get permanent residency (the path to citizenship) if you invested a certain amount in opening a business in Canada. The program was a disaster; most of the businesses never actually opened, or failed very soon, and most of those new 'citizens' spent most of their actual time and money in their original countries. They just wanted a second option, for convenience.
5
It is half a million here,
2
Trump bashed Hispanic immigrants in his campaign ("rapists, criminals") and whipped up hatred of Muslims and refugees as potential terrorists. He did not simply advocate reform of immigration to advocate a merit-based system. Trump and his supporters ignore facts: net immigration across the border with Mexico has been negative in every year since 2008. The wall against Mexican and other Latino immigrants stands in the minds of Trump's followers as a symbol of safety. They are hardly prepared to consider a reform to follow the Canadian model.
7
Indeed. Everything you said, plus where's the compassionate refugee system that is supposed to go with it?
2
This article references a survey done in June of 2015 prior to Trudeau's Liberals coming into power. The survey would have been in reflection of Stephen Harper's immigration policies. Justin Trudeau's immigration policy is anything but responsible, it undermines our laws and encourages foreigners to simply walk across the border from the US instead of going through legal means. The problem is so out of control the current estimates predict a back log of case vetting to take 11 years to complete and cost taxpayers an additional 2 billion dollars while these asylum seekers wait in limbo to have their case reviewed. This article is misleading and inaccurate the author should really do some research prior to posting lies.
6
The author is correct.
You, on the other hand, are confusing refugees and immigrants. And our immigration policies were in place prior to Harper. Harper's government did put an end to the terrible 'buy Canadian citizenship' option which had been put in place by a previous Liberal government.
You, on the other hand, are confusing refugees and immigrants. And our immigration policies were in place prior to Harper. Harper's government did put an end to the terrible 'buy Canadian citizenship' option which had been put in place by a previous Liberal government.
4
Immigration is not all about the economy. If it were, we could probably just sell out to China and have the Chinese run it. Look at how China has taken over Vancouver, for example. No, America prioritizes family reunification. Do we really want to greatly expand the H1-B program? Because that is how we'd implement Mr. Tepperman's (Canada's) ideas.
4
I don't think the H1B program would pass muster in Canada. Large businesses have perverted its intent to take jobs away from US Citizens by replacing them with less expensive H1B staff who are virtually indentured servants. According to my limited understanding of Canada's program, they would not allow that to happen.
9
What do Canadians think about massive illegal immigration? Perhaps they should totally open their borders. You'all could open your arms to the 12 Million + of the illegal immigrants residing in the US. Perhaps build a railroad from the US southern border to the US northern border? The author of this opinion seems to not understand there is a difference between illegal and legal immigration.
10
It's all about legal immigration. I've never met any US citizen against legal immigration. Sure they argue about numbers, but this is where compromise begins.
Washington has to build a new immigration policy.
A merit-based policy based on economics sounds like a good place to start. Yes, immediate well-vetted citizenship is for sale at a seven-figure price tag. Illegal immigration hurts and hinders legal immigration.
Unfortunately, we've gotten ourselves into a mess.
I don't think to deport 11 million illegals is necessarily the way to go. It's too costly for many reasons. We have to bite the bullet here and move forward. It is time for Washington to act and build a proper immigration policy.
Moving forward there will be no place for illegal immigration. You break the law you are on the next plane or bus back to your place of origin.
Washington has to build a new immigration policy.
A merit-based policy based on economics sounds like a good place to start. Yes, immediate well-vetted citizenship is for sale at a seven-figure price tag. Illegal immigration hurts and hinders legal immigration.
Unfortunately, we've gotten ourselves into a mess.
I don't think to deport 11 million illegals is necessarily the way to go. It's too costly for many reasons. We have to bite the bullet here and move forward. It is time for Washington to act and build a proper immigration policy.
Moving forward there will be no place for illegal immigration. You break the law you are on the next plane or bus back to your place of origin.
3
POOR US--So close to Trump. So far from Canada. Trump does not have the presence of mind (if ever he did) to emulate Canada's model for immigration. We could increase the number of high-achieving people here in the US by using precisely the same criteria as Canada. There could be some tweaking to admit immigrants who have relatives here. But Canada's the way to go. Now if we could only merge with Canada and benefit from its government.
3
Ah...Merge? Better a complete regime change down there. Dems need to show up and vote. MAGA.
1
Canada changed its points system in Jan 2015 to the Express System that - essentially - issues visas based on a job offer. Then Minister of Immigration Jason Kenny sounded the death knell for the point system when in Dec 2012 he said publicly that it made no sense to bring in engineers and doctors if they end up driving cabs and waiting on tables. Canada is wonderful for trades people manual workers and refugees less so for university educated that make up half of all of Canada's poor immigrants. Mr Trump and this article have an erroneous view of Canada's immigration system.
3
Whilst the US immigration system is much less sophisticated than that of countries such as Canada and Australia, it actually has the means in place to quickly change to one based more on the ability to economically establish. That could be achieved by simply making it easier for foreign nationals who are working or studying in the US to apply for permanent residence provided they can meet certain educational, language and occupational experience requirements and/or have a job offer from an American employer. We should do everything we can to keep foreign graduates from our universities in the US, particularly in the STEM fields.
But the best thing we can do to stimulate our economy is to graduate more home-grown graduates in the STEM subjects. For that we still need to work harder to improve our state K-12 systems so that they all meet at least the level of that of Massachusetts.
But the best thing we can do to stimulate our economy is to graduate more home-grown graduates in the STEM subjects. For that we still need to work harder to improve our state K-12 systems so that they all meet at least the level of that of Massachusetts.
7
You forget that in the early days of emigration to Australia a criminal record was a requirement!
Meritocracy is subjective, and not always based on the same merits. For example, bilingualism or multilingualism is something most "traditional Americans" would fail miserably at on a competitive global stage. Shoving Montenegrins or anyone else out of your way too, probably not going to be seen as meritorious behavior outside our borders.
Meritocracy is subjective, and not always based on the same merits. For example, bilingualism or multilingualism is something most "traditional Americans" would fail miserably at on a competitive global stage. Shoving Montenegrins or anyone else out of your way too, probably not going to be seen as meritorious behavior outside our borders.
1
Many comments here. Here's one from my personal experience. I'm one of those cherry picked by Canada to come in and I've been in this country 22 years. It felt like home the second I stepped out of Pearson, my life belongings in two suitcases and my wife right next to me. Conditions to be admitted in Canada back then (1995) were quite tough. Degree in Engineering, at least one year proven experience in your field, good command of the English language (with French as a big additional asset), absolutely healthy (had to go thru a full medical exam, x-rays and all that jazz) plus a nice sum of money as a reserve to live on for at least 6 months (for Toronto and two adults it was 10 grand) plus a $1000 processing free, non refundable in case your application was rejected. We also had a hearing with the Canadian Consul much like a job interview. So yes, we were cherry picked indeed. However back then getting on welfare was not exactly easy, you had to justify every penny you spent and all the big purchases (such as a PC both my wife and I needed for job training) had to be preapproved by your case officer. You also had to show reasonable effort in looking for a job and that in itself, at $1.50 per fax (1995, was not entirely cheap. My wife took longer to find a job at a cost of 1200 resumes sent I was much luckier and find a tooling designer job in less than 2 months of searching. I love Canada, it's my home but getting accepted was far from easy.
18
Every immigrant has a duty to promote the interests of his new country; likewise, every native has a duty to treat their immigrants as their own. It's already happening in the U.S., but I guess Canada took it to an analytical level.
1
Concurrent with the opinion written by Mr Tepperman was an opinion by Edward Lazear in the June 27 WSJ, It deals favorably with the more balanced approach of admission (Canada) based on skills rather than family reunification; as advocated by Mr Teperman.
2
But remember that we do have both, Stanley, including our own family reunification program.
2
If Canada is so famously liberal, why do we constantly hear about tar sands and pipelines coming from our northern neighbor? Their immigration policy sounds like the opposite of compassionate, much like the American one of citizenship if you bring enough loot with you. So much for all the media hype about how they've accepted far more destitute refugees from Syria.
Hardly sounds liberal at all, sounds downright Republican.
Hardly sounds liberal at all, sounds downright Republican.
1
Imagine that - we're a complex country with lots of variety and differences of opinion.
But for the most part - far more than just about everywhere outside of Hollywood - liberal.
But for the most part - far more than just about everywhere outside of Hollywood - liberal.
5
Getting tired of NYT platitudes about Canada: "modest, unassuming lot, used to being overlooked and overshadowed." If Canadians are this way it is because we observes the norms of civil behavior that are found in most countries, including the USA (but not apparently, American political circles).
The generalizations about immigrations stand, but don't forget that foreign born engineers and MDs can't become become P.Eng and MDs without going back to school for the entire course work due to restrictions from these professions' certification bodies.
Having said this, people around the world put Canada as a favored immigration destination because we are a civil society with respect built into our societal norms. Oh yeah, and we have weapon control so people with a grudge don't go around blasting their neighbors into smithereens.
The generalizations about immigrations stand, but don't forget that foreign born engineers and MDs can't become become P.Eng and MDs without going back to school for the entire course work due to restrictions from these professions' certification bodies.
Having said this, people around the world put Canada as a favored immigration destination because we are a civil society with respect built into our societal norms. Oh yeah, and we have weapon control so people with a grudge don't go around blasting their neighbors into smithereens.
5
Ruthlessly rational, ruthlessly selfish -- what does that matter? It is too important a source of skills and educated contributors to society. By the way, very much like the Trump policy - America First! -- this is the earlier version, Canada First!!
4
Oh, would Trump pas the immigration testing here? His literacy is low. His college record dubious. His employment history a list of bankruptcies - of casinos, yet. His knowledge of foreign languages nil. His knowledge of Canada non-existent. His ethics and judicial histories patently undesirable.
And his health suspect. His awareness of and dedication to law nil, too.
I took my test in 1967 and the Canadians wanted me.
Today's tests are stricter, the applicants more numerous. But my PhD, derided by Trump's cabinet, still seals the deal here. Not in DC!
He wouldn't understand our system. I doubt the U.S. would accept an application from him, an illiterate, abusive, much-sued, grifting, bankrupted dolt. Trump vs. a sincere but impoverished refugee Syrian goat-seller? Not close, I hope. Can rich relatives sneak him in? Change that system now.
Trump's non-ban Muslim ban #2 is a rehearsal for a new immigration system, evil and insensitive, that in no way equals Canada's. And how he likes to brag about! Humility is another Canadian trait Trump will never possess. Send us a literate goat-seller any day.
And his health suspect. His awareness of and dedication to law nil, too.
I took my test in 1967 and the Canadians wanted me.
Today's tests are stricter, the applicants more numerous. But my PhD, derided by Trump's cabinet, still seals the deal here. Not in DC!
He wouldn't understand our system. I doubt the U.S. would accept an application from him, an illiterate, abusive, much-sued, grifting, bankrupted dolt. Trump vs. a sincere but impoverished refugee Syrian goat-seller? Not close, I hope. Can rich relatives sneak him in? Change that system now.
Trump's non-ban Muslim ban #2 is a rehearsal for a new immigration system, evil and insensitive, that in no way equals Canada's. And how he likes to brag about! Humility is another Canadian trait Trump will never possess. Send us a literate goat-seller any day.
10
Maybe not now, but remember that during the Harper years, we welcomed back that convicted criminal, Conrad Black...
"Humility is another Canadian trait..."
Yes, indeed. Quite apparent from your comment...
Yes, indeed. Quite apparent from your comment...
4
I feel like a meritocratic U.S. immigration system would look a lot like the H1B visa system. Businesses recruiting skilled labor from abroad in exchange for citizenship. Under a broad meritocracy though, U.S. employers wouldn't need a labor shortage and skilled immigrants would jump to the front of the line. This is type of policy can become successful in Canadian society. In the U.S., the practice is destined to become corrupted and abused.
4
Yes, the H1B system, in which we encourage immigration by people here specifically to take jobs away from better paid Americans.
Excellent idea.
Excellent idea.
6
But don't kid yourself - there are abuses here, too (check out our 'temporary' foreign workers program); however, for the most part, we get it right.
And you could too, but somehow, I don't think Trump has any intention of offering the kind of generous refugee program that complements our merit-based immigration program.
And you could too, but somehow, I don't think Trump has any intention of offering the kind of generous refugee program that complements our merit-based immigration program.
1
All those readers who believe that because Canada has a smaller population (about the size of California) that the US can't borrow some policy ideas from it (on immigration, medicare, social assistance, multiculturalism) miss the central point of the piece: think and act rationally. You are welcome to your own rationale, but that doesn't mean you actually have one. It seems you don't and if you did, you might not have so many undocumented migrants either. Your rationale might have to do with workforce demands in the sectors that employ them; it might be related to your foreign policy, your drug policy (I'm doing you a favour by calling them policies, they are basically prejudices masquerading as policies). And lastly, please ignore us. As other has written, we don't really want the attention. It limits our ability to do what we want to do, instead of what you want us to do. Thanks so much....
7
One of the reasons immigrants to Canada, including children, read at a level with Canadian children is because many of the immigrants come from countries that were part of the British colonial countries - as Canada was. If they took in adults and children from other countries, they would be starting from scratch, as are many immigrants to this country.
11
Tens of thousands emigrated from Hong Kong to Vancouver and drove the housing out of reach of the average Canadian.
6
I lived in Toronto for years, among immigrants from Poland, Italy, the Ukraine, etc. No, most immigrants in Canada don't come from Commonwealth countries, though these days there's been a surge from the US.
8
Ignorance fuels sanctimony.
The top 25 countries providing immigrants to Canada in 2016 were:
Philippines (14.2%), India (13.5%), Syria (11.8%), China (9.1%), Pakistan (3.8%), USA (2.8%), Iran (2.2%), France (2.1%), UK and colonies (2%), Eritrea (1.6%), Nigeria (1.5%), South Korea (1.4%), Jamaica (1.2%), Mexico (1.1%), Ukraine (1.1%), Bangladesh (1.1%), Egypt (1%), Haiti (1%), Algeria (1%), Afghanistan (0.9%), Democratic Republic of Congo (0.9%), Vietnam (0.8%), Colombia (0.8%), Russia (0.8%) and Iraq (0.8%). The rest come from 165 other countries. Large former colonies such as Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, Jamaica, etc. don't make the top 25 and are less than 1% of immigrants to Canada. "British" indeed.
The top 25 countries providing immigrants to Canada in 2016 were:
Philippines (14.2%), India (13.5%), Syria (11.8%), China (9.1%), Pakistan (3.8%), USA (2.8%), Iran (2.2%), France (2.1%), UK and colonies (2%), Eritrea (1.6%), Nigeria (1.5%), South Korea (1.4%), Jamaica (1.2%), Mexico (1.1%), Ukraine (1.1%), Bangladesh (1.1%), Egypt (1%), Haiti (1%), Algeria (1%), Afghanistan (0.9%), Democratic Republic of Congo (0.9%), Vietnam (0.8%), Colombia (0.8%), Russia (0.8%) and Iraq (0.8%). The rest come from 165 other countries. Large former colonies such as Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, Jamaica, etc. don't make the top 25 and are less than 1% of immigrants to Canada. "British" indeed.
10
Well, there is little or no affordable housing for the citizens. Immigrants, refugees, asylum seekers want to live in the big cities - Toronto, Vancouver, Montreal - they are not likely to go and live in Yellowknife, NWT. Where will the municipalities house all these people?
3
I question the same about our nation. Immigrants almost always want to live in cities and mostly along the coasts. There is absolutely no housing available in most of those cities but nobody wants to live in Buffalo or East Osh Kosh.
Where do we put these newcomers? The supply is not keeping up with the demand therefore rents have increased to stratospheric levels.
Where do we put these newcomers? The supply is not keeping up with the demand therefore rents have increased to stratospheric levels.
5
Dear New York Times, you've published a number of pro-Canada articles lately.
We're flattered and all, but please stop talking about us. We don't want your attention. It's never good for a country when Americans start paying attention to it. Remember "freedom fries"? Well, we do, because Canada also refused to join the "Coalition of the Willing (to completely destabilize the middle east)", but you didn't notice that, so we didn't have to deal with your xenophobic hysteria.
You have ginormous problems that no one else can fix, because the only other countries who elect people like Trump have those kind of problems too. So please sort it out yourselves and go back to ignoring us. Thank you.
We're flattered and all, but please stop talking about us. We don't want your attention. It's never good for a country when Americans start paying attention to it. Remember "freedom fries"? Well, we do, because Canada also refused to join the "Coalition of the Willing (to completely destabilize the middle east)", but you didn't notice that, so we didn't have to deal with your xenophobic hysteria.
You have ginormous problems that no one else can fix, because the only other countries who elect people like Trump have those kind of problems too. So please sort it out yourselves and go back to ignoring us. Thank you.
108
When Oregon put up billboards years ago with similar message, telling Californians to stop thinking about living in Oregon, it backfired. Just made Oregon more enticing.
2
Who are you to tell a newspaper what and what not to discuss and investigate?
This is the Canadian arrogance and rudeness that many Americans either don't believe or don't understand. Let me make it clear: Canadians have NO interest in Americans living and/or working there and are only interested in Americans when it comes to spending tourism dollars there. After that, get out. You should hear how they talk about Americans when they think none of us can hear them.
This is the Canadian arrogance and rudeness that many Americans either don't believe or don't understand. Let me make it clear: Canadians have NO interest in Americans living and/or working there and are only interested in Americans when it comes to spending tourism dollars there. After that, get out. You should hear how they talk about Americans when they think none of us can hear them.
3
See what I mean?
3
Saying our immigration system is based on pure luck is being too positive. For highly educated Asians, as Suhindra points out, it's a combination of economic grounds AND often luck via the H1-B lottery. For others, descent from someone who snuck into the country is the path to citizenship, especially given the periodic amnesties for the undocumented. This favors on the one hand people who displayed a lot of initiative in getting here, and on the other hand people who take a flexible approach to following the law.
3
I have written my member of parliament pledging my support to her (a member of our 50% female cabinet) my support for the government and our Prime Minister. Even as I support our Liberal government I will be offering my financial and political support to a turban wearing Sikh seeking to lead our New Democratic Party who I hope will be our next Prime Minister. This is the opportunity America has lost and this is what makes Canada the best country on this planet.
30
Before going awash with platitudes comparing Canada's numbers to those of the United States (apples to oranges), consider the demographics.
Canada's est 2016 population: 36,443,632.
CALIFORNIA's 2016 est population: 39,250,017.
How many thousands of "undocumented workers" are crossing Canada's southern border compared to the United States southern border?
YES. It's much easier to have a SMART and EFFECTIVE Immigration Policy when there's a sponge of democratic freedoms pampering a nation's underbelly.
Canada's est 2016 population: 36,443,632.
CALIFORNIA's 2016 est population: 39,250,017.
How many thousands of "undocumented workers" are crossing Canada's southern border compared to the United States southern border?
YES. It's much easier to have a SMART and EFFECTIVE Immigration Policy when there's a sponge of democratic freedoms pampering a nation's underbelly.
7
Give me a break. Canada has about 10% of the population of the U.S. California alone has more people than Canada. What works there (if it really does work?) can not automatically be put in practice here.
8
Actually, if anything, your immigration system should therefore be better than ours, attracting the best to your greater opportunities, no?
Time for you to admit that the greatest impediment to doing it the right way is your politics.
Time for you to admit that the greatest impediment to doing it the right way is your politics.
12
Your Arab immigrants are granted passports if they have engineering degrees, or equal. You are hardly taking Mother Theresa's patients.
6
Aaah, Michele K, to paraphrase Abba Eban (oft mistaken for Winston Churchill) America only admits to something and does it the right way after exhausting all the alternatives.
1
Not really true. Canada accepts highly educated immigrants but does not allow them to practice their trade. Canada imposes high barriers of entry for foreign educated immigrants. Have you not heard of countless articles on some PhDs, MDs, MBAs, MS, etc, who work as janitors or factory work workers? To work in Canada they only recognize Canadian or US work experience. How could you have these work experiences when you just moved from elsewhere? They also require these immigrants to study in Canadian universities to have recognized diplomas. High fees and then no or menial jobs. Total scam!!! BEWARE!
I have a cousin and family friends undergo such painful process. They thought they will be similar to US immigrants but not really. At least in the US if you pass their board exams you have a chance. Your relevant past experiences generally count too.
I have a cousin and family friends undergo such painful process. They thought they will be similar to US immigrants but not really. At least in the US if you pass their board exams you have a chance. Your relevant past experiences generally count too.
1
Simply untrue - show us the law that supposedly irrationally says, 'come to our country, we want your qualifications, but we don't want you to use them' . Your personal anecdote is proof of nothing.
Just as in your country, all they have to do is pass their board exams, etc.
Just as in your country, all they have to do is pass their board exams, etc.
6
Tepperman calls Canada's immigration policy "ruthlessly rational." It could be more accurately called "ruthlessly selfish." That is, Canada properly evaluates immigrants in terms of their likely economic contribution, and selects only those most advantageous to Canada. In conrtast, the US policy of family reunification offers a generous hand-shake to the families of immigrants who may themselves have been admitted on the strength of family reunion rather than hard-headed economic calculation of national advantage. If this advice sounds nasty bear in mind that immigrants are not charity cases; refugees are! Countries should open their borders generously to refugees, especially when their war policies have helped to displace them from their homes.
4
The difficulty is that when our policies create millions of refugees, we admit a few thousand and feel good about it, we have actually not really addressed the problem. Mr. Obama's cries "Assad must go" have contributed vastly to the refugee problem from Syria.
"But hey, Obama is a nice man and Assad isn't so what Obama did must be right."
Was it?
The tragedy is that the anti-Syria, pro Saudi Arabia policy of Mr. Obama has now been taken over by Mr. Trump who certainly is not one to stand by his previous statements.
"But hey, Obama is a nice man and Assad isn't so what Obama did must be right."
Was it?
The tragedy is that the anti-Syria, pro Saudi Arabia policy of Mr. Obama has now been taken over by Mr. Trump who certainly is not one to stand by his previous statements.
1
The word "selfish" applies to persons, not to countries. Historically immigration to this country came about due to a demand for labor. Opening up the U.S. to refugees seems like a wonderful idea: perhaps we should depopulate Syria, Libya, Somalia, and many other countries and have them come to live here. Who then will get the spoils of their abandoned countries? Warlords?
2
Countries are not charity cases either. A government that won't work in the self interest of most Americans does not deserve support from most Americans.
5
Mr. Kellerman, it isn't necessary to praise our rational approach to immigration while denigrating many of our other equally rational policies: our health care system is cheaper than yours and has better mortality and morbidity outcomes; race, gender and sexuality rights are sturdier and face far fewer expensive and polarizing court challenges; we're in Oregon at the moment and y'all seem to be catching up on the notion that pot is no more dangerous than tobacco or alcohol and very expensive to police. Sorry, sweetie (you shouldn't imagine that every Canadian apology is sincere) but your country is a bit of a hot mess. Steal more of our ideas. Peace, Order and Good Government seem to be giving Life, Liberty and the Pusuit of Happiness a run for your money.
Roberta Ellis
Immigrant
Roberta Ellis
Immigrant
2
"about half of all Canadian immigrants arrive with a college degree, while the figure in the United States is just 27 percent." While I understand why the author wants to recommend the United States adopt an elitist immigration policy, I like many other Americans don't want to shut the doors to so many who do not have college degrees. I believe some of those without college degrees should have the chance to come to America too. The problem is we have disagreement on the number of immigrants to allow in the United States - those who think we should allow more desire to ignore immigration laws and let everyone in. Mr. Tepperman seems to suggest we expand the number we let in - but just restrict those entering to those with college degrees.
2
Through its private sponsorship refugee program, Canada has taken in many destitute and under educated immigrants. I am living here as a dual US/Canadian citizen because I was so impressed when 30 years ago when I visited Canada for the first time. I helped my U.S. church transport Central American refugees to the Canada to apply for political asylum. They were sponsored by Canadian churches and quickly enrolled in adult education classes and were working at jobs within a year. I remember being astonished at seeing that most of the airport security were Sikh men with turbans and ads to "Visit sunny Cuba" in the Toronto subway. Even more amazing as a person who grew up in the segregated and crime ridden city of Chicago, I could walk around any ethnic neighborhood without fear - even at night! Yes, things can better as the result of good government policies and allowing private citizens to make a difference.
Yesterday my church here received the good news that a large Syrian family that we are sponsoring is due to arrive in a few months. They have no formal education but we have organized everything to help them adjust to an enormous cultural change.
A number of my graduate students are from the banned countries and their careers have been hurt as they have not been able to attend scientific meetings. They are all planning to take advantage of the fast track to Canadian citizenship that is offered to foreign students attending Canadian universities.
Yesterday my church here received the good news that a large Syrian family that we are sponsoring is due to arrive in a few months. They have no formal education but we have organized everything to help them adjust to an enormous cultural change.
A number of my graduate students are from the banned countries and their careers have been hurt as they have not been able to attend scientific meetings. They are all planning to take advantage of the fast track to Canadian citizenship that is offered to foreign students attending Canadian universities.
14
That still has nothing to do with the vast number of unskilled Latinos who want to move here.
3
Reading some of these comments one would think we're sneaking over and kidnapping would be immigrants. We're not. All we're doing is advertising.....Thinking of immigrating, here's what we need. Interested? Give us a call.
9
Yes, I used to get your ads when I lived in Abu Dhabi. If you were under 40 with a college degree in engineering, you could enter either Canada or Australia.
My office-mate, a well educated Egyptian was required to learn to speak French before they would admit him because they had enough Project Managers in the English speaking Canadian provinces.
My office-mate, a well educated Egyptian was required to learn to speak French before they would admit him because they had enough Project Managers in the English speaking Canadian provinces.
4
More than advertising - we're welcoming.
The element of dumb luck is very revealing. Dumb luck is pervasive as to whether a person fits the criteria for a merit based system as well. I believe the author and the rest of us will be hard pressed to truly attribute that it was only that person's efforts that fit the bill.
It is "dumb" smarts or "captain obvious" to look to what a person can add; however, it is the misinformed or uninformed that negate consideration of other factors.
It is "dumb" smarts or "captain obvious" to look to what a person can add; however, it is the misinformed or uninformed that negate consideration of other factors.
Having lived in Canada (Montreal specifically) during my college days, I saw first-hand the positive impact of immigration on the country. The sane point-based immigration policy, generous refugee program and fair family reunification program has shown that the contributions of immigrants have been invaluable to Canada's development. Canadians see clearly the overall benefits of immigration and both Canada's government and its people go to great lengths to integrate newcomers into their society. Canadians also allow latitude for newcomers to maintain at least some of their own traditions. Canada is a tossed salad, not a melting pot.
The problem with Americans is that they see immigrants as either a necessary evil or altogether unnecessary. They do not see that undocumented/illegal immigrants essentially keep the cost of food and services low. That all immigrants are among the hardest working and most law-abiding people in the land. That immigrants are far over-represented in creating new businesses, at the elite universities and in technology and the professions (e.g. ~25 of all physicians are from the Indian sub-continent or their children). They also do not see that but for immigrants, the U.S. would have the low economic growth rates of Europe and would be headed towards the geriatric population of Japan.
Like many things, immigration is complex and not without problems. A positive and constructive attitude, however, would be good for everyone. Canadians know this.
The problem with Americans is that they see immigrants as either a necessary evil or altogether unnecessary. They do not see that undocumented/illegal immigrants essentially keep the cost of food and services low. That all immigrants are among the hardest working and most law-abiding people in the land. That immigrants are far over-represented in creating new businesses, at the elite universities and in technology and the professions (e.g. ~25 of all physicians are from the Indian sub-continent or their children). They also do not see that but for immigrants, the U.S. would have the low economic growth rates of Europe and would be headed towards the geriatric population of Japan.
Like many things, immigration is complex and not without problems. A positive and constructive attitude, however, would be good for everyone. Canadians know this.
13
Americans let in about half a million people here legally each year. Americans are perfectly fine having legal, vetted immigrants here. We're not fine with being forced to allow in lots of unskilled migrants who break our laws and do not contribute anything. You Canadians don't want them either.
6
Based on this op-ed, it seems the Canadian immigration system has its pros and cons. I don’t think, however, it would fly here in the US. It would face much opposition from the liberal opposition, which wants to open the border to just anyone. Also it would face opposition from the industries which hire illegal immigrants to do the back breaking physical labor that most Americans refuse to do. The US needs a guest worker program in which immigrant labor is brought in for a predetermined amount of time to work, like seasonally to work on farms. What’s wrong with that? Oh, I forgot, the liberal opposition sees them as future constituents. America, from its outset, has been a land of immigrants; it is land of many cultures, but which are secondary to the main uniquely American culture. American exceptionalism. American nationalism. American populism. I support America. I support Trump.
5
The have a farm program. Problem was it was not enforced and was abused.
1
What's wrong with that is that it constitutes pseudo-slavery, taking advantage of vulnerable people.
There is no such thing as jobs Americans who won't do certain jobs (or Canadians, because alas, we have our own exploitive and regrettable 'temporary' foreign workers program). There are simply employers who refuse to pay market wages - and people like you who would facilitate their doing so.
There is no such thing as jobs Americans who won't do certain jobs (or Canadians, because alas, we have our own exploitive and regrettable 'temporary' foreign workers program). There are simply employers who refuse to pay market wages - and people like you who would facilitate their doing so.
5
13 Muslims sit on the government benches and 2-3 are Cabinet members with one, a Somali refugee, Minister of citizenship and immigration. Sikhs are in cabinet as well and the Minister of National Defence wears a turban. 2 past Govern General were immigrants one Chines and the other Haitian, both women. With half the cabinet women, some think tank for the CBC declared 3 of the top 5 performing cabinet members are portfolios held by women. And when making up his cabinet after the election, Trudeau was asked why half are women. He replied " because it's 2015"
11
The US is also diverse. We allow in hundreds of thousands of people here legally. Are you Canuks prepared to give us any credit at all?
4
The article describe teh Governor-General as Canada's ceremonial; head of state. This is doubly wrong. Firstly the Governor-General is no the head of sate; teh Queen is. Secondly, teh Governor-General office is not ceremonial. It plays an important role and has significant powers . The GG office has the power to select a government. it also has the power to dissolve and prorogue Parliament. The decision by GG Jean to accept PM Harper's request to prorogue Parliament to stave off a coalition attempt to defeat his government demonstrates teh significant powers and responsibilities held by those who hold this office. These powers are not the less because they are erercised on rare occasions. they are a fundamental feature of a parliamentary system.
3
Maybe we are missing the forest here.
Canada has always had firm plans for immigrants entering the Nation, whereas the USA has admitted many people who are actually fleeing from abuse and terror of wars.
Canada has always had firm plans for immigrants entering the Nation, whereas the USA has admitted many people who are actually fleeing from abuse and terror of wars.
1
With all due respect, you're the one missing the forest - Canada has both an immigration system and a robust refugee system, and one much more sympathetic than yours.
5
Yet another article that demolishes a straw man based on dishonest conflation of legal and illegal immigration. Even when the author (backhandedly) praises Trump's eminently sane and uncontroversial approach to restoring control over our immigration policy, he repeats the made-up, Orwellian nonsense term "undocumented immigrant." There is no such thing. The correct term, used in the statute and the courts and universally understood, is ILLEGAL ALIEN.
Again: those like Trump who oppose America's insane embrace of illegal aliens are NOT AGAINST IMMIGRATION.
Many are themselves legal immigrants, which helps explain why 30% of latinos voted for trump last fall.
All are solidly in favor of restoring control over our immigration policy, as well as rule of law and border security.
When will the Times stop with these mendacious, offensive, and stupid mischaracterizations regarding this issue?
Are you all trying to ensure that Trump is re-elected?
Again: those like Trump who oppose America's insane embrace of illegal aliens are NOT AGAINST IMMIGRATION.
Many are themselves legal immigrants, which helps explain why 30% of latinos voted for trump last fall.
All are solidly in favor of restoring control over our immigration policy, as well as rule of law and border security.
When will the Times stop with these mendacious, offensive, and stupid mischaracterizations regarding this issue?
Are you all trying to ensure that Trump is re-elected?
14
The U.S. Supreme Court has stated unequivocally that it is not a crime to be in the U.S. without documents. The term "illegal alien" is fear propaganda.
8
The term illegal alien is accurate. It's a crime to violate our laws. No one has an inherent right to immigrate anywhere they please.
7
I don't think the writer of this op-ed has any idea of how family "reunification" works..... nor do most Americans. The adult children of United States Citizens who are Mexican have to wait twenty-two (yes, 22 !!!) years after parents file a petition (with fees and all proper documents) before they can submit their own paperwork to the consulate.
6
By choosing to profile their immigrants, Canada has avoided the problems of lack of assimilation that many other countries including the USA have endured. If we tried to profile in the same way, we could expect howls from the left with charges of racism, sexism, Islamophobia and God knows what else. The Canadians may indeed have a higher immigration "rate" than anyone, the USA is still the #1 immigration country in the world with over a million immigrants per year coming in. In order to properly vet these immigrants, we should follow Canada and have a more meritorious program of admittance rather than continuing with the insane program for "asylum" seekers (moochers) who do not wish to be Americans but desire their own country within ours.
5
Ok then, you speak so admiringly of Canada which can apparently do no wrong. Let's do what they do. Only let in the elites and the underclasses can go elsewhere. Works for me.
5
They also take Syrian refugees who are not so "elite:"
14
Oh, they aren't perfect. The Darkness of their twilight and evenings stretches on and on for hours more each 24 hours much of the year. And the cold of winters in 2/3 of the nation!!!
Guess what. Canada doesn't allow employers to prey upon illegal immigrants or to profit from their lack of legal status.
We would not have an immigration problem if those who employ and profit off of illegal labor were held accountable. Follow the money.
Once again the moneyed class are not really serious about treating immigrants legally as it would hurt their profits. Trump is blowing smoke and preying on the poor. How many illegal workers are employed by Trump and his businesses? Maybe the NYTimes would do a bit of investigating, eh?
We would not have an immigration problem if those who employ and profit off of illegal labor were held accountable. Follow the money.
Once again the moneyed class are not really serious about treating immigrants legally as it would hurt their profits. Trump is blowing smoke and preying on the poor. How many illegal workers are employed by Trump and his businesses? Maybe the NYTimes would do a bit of investigating, eh?
17
I certainly take your point, but unfortunately, we've got another program - the so-called, 'temporary' foreign workers program - that is equally exploitive and used to the same ends :(
2
Not all Canadians are enthused about hordes of immigrants. There will be politicians somewhat like Trump campaigning in the next election. Watch for it...
2
You must live in total isolation.
#1, you forget that we had Harper BEFORE Trump and have already unceremoniously dumped him.
#2, there is no new Harper or Trump rising here - even the Conservatives just rejected that bigot, Leitch, for leadership.
#1, you forget that we had Harper BEFORE Trump and have already unceremoniously dumped him.
#2, there is no new Harper or Trump rising here - even the Conservatives just rejected that bigot, Leitch, for leadership.
4
It's rich that the present POTUS should be seen supporting any merit-based system, seeing his election is proof that America is not a merit-based society, just the opposite. Did the smartest rise to the top as POTUS last year? What's been meritorious about his career except that he was born into wealth and used that wealth for self promotion and further self enrichment?
Our country in this young century is leaning toward being a militarized plutocracy that's prone to violence both at home and abroad and that's leaning toward authoritarianism.
Since Dubya and Cheney's Patriot Act went into place where every US citizen's records are shared with Canada, smart and talented people like Russell Brand have been banned from entering Canada not to immigrate, but just to visit for a stand-up routine, a brief work stint, for the same youthful misdemeanors that Dubya and Cheney were guilty of, drinking a few too many beers and then driving home. Extreme vetting sees Americans with decades old misdemeanors like marijuana possession turned back at the Canadian border now when they just want to go on fishing trips or visit relatives in Canada, not immigrate.
No sir, extreme vetting is a form of double jeopardy and in violation of American citizens and other citizens civil and human rights to freedom of movement. People are meant to to be free in this world, not subject to authoritarian vetting no matter how well it's packaged and sold, it's still less freedom and rights for the plebs.
Our country in this young century is leaning toward being a militarized plutocracy that's prone to violence both at home and abroad and that's leaning toward authoritarianism.
Since Dubya and Cheney's Patriot Act went into place where every US citizen's records are shared with Canada, smart and talented people like Russell Brand have been banned from entering Canada not to immigrate, but just to visit for a stand-up routine, a brief work stint, for the same youthful misdemeanors that Dubya and Cheney were guilty of, drinking a few too many beers and then driving home. Extreme vetting sees Americans with decades old misdemeanors like marijuana possession turned back at the Canadian border now when they just want to go on fishing trips or visit relatives in Canada, not immigrate.
No sir, extreme vetting is a form of double jeopardy and in violation of American citizens and other citizens civil and human rights to freedom of movement. People are meant to to be free in this world, not subject to authoritarian vetting no matter how well it's packaged and sold, it's still less freedom and rights for the plebs.
6
It certainly is rich, because nowhere do you see Trump advocating for the other part of Canada's successful immigration program - the part that welcomes the world's refugees.
5
When it comes to immigration, we tend to forget who we are and how we got here. The Canadian system is a no-brainer; of course the best educated and skilled people should be admitted. But they also admit refugees at a far higher rate than we do and then provide the social safety net that we don't. Without the latter, even skilled people are going to have more problems contributing to society.
Can we emulate Canada? Not without a cultural overhaul. We have a long history of letting in "white" Europeans; non European, not so much except to get cheap labor. Then we discriminated against them and treated them as shabbily as we did poor native born folks. Those immigrants left a hard place to land in another hard place, but they tended to have the same skill sets as native born Americans. Learn the language, learn the culture, work hard at low level jobs, and in a generation, fit right in an contribute. Maybe contribute even more because they had a reason to feel grateful and to love their new country.
Alas, times have changed. There is nothing wrong with that Century old model, but we are even more clannish than we used to be. Its harder to fit in and the jobs we want filled require higher skill sets than they used to. In the meantime there is a global refugee crisis and America has cravenly turned its back on them out of irrational fear. Worst, the country founded on freedom of religion now actively seeks to discriminate on the basis of religion.
Sad.
Can we emulate Canada? Not without a cultural overhaul. We have a long history of letting in "white" Europeans; non European, not so much except to get cheap labor. Then we discriminated against them and treated them as shabbily as we did poor native born folks. Those immigrants left a hard place to land in another hard place, but they tended to have the same skill sets as native born Americans. Learn the language, learn the culture, work hard at low level jobs, and in a generation, fit right in an contribute. Maybe contribute even more because they had a reason to feel grateful and to love their new country.
Alas, times have changed. There is nothing wrong with that Century old model, but we are even more clannish than we used to be. Its harder to fit in and the jobs we want filled require higher skill sets than they used to. In the meantime there is a global refugee crisis and America has cravenly turned its back on them out of irrational fear. Worst, the country founded on freedom of religion now actively seeks to discriminate on the basis of religion.
Sad.
Canada is smart. It doesn't admit 15 million low-skill illegals like we do. Instead, they admit based on merit - PhDs, engineers and scientists.
Dems are ridiculous. When Canada does it, good for them. When Trump proposes it, what a racist!
Dems are ridiculous. When Canada does it, good for them. When Trump proposes it, what a racist!
8
The points system does not guarantee entry, but is used to prioritize who gets to move up and down the line. It is a traffic control system. Also the skills requirements are not restricted to formal college education. The points system give credits for specific types of education BUT skills requirements are flexible. Canada knows it needs technical vocations as well as medical doctors. For example, English speakers with a B.A. maybe get less priority compared to a trained plumber with French heritage and a desire to live in Quebec (assuming they score the same range of points). The points system is a guideposts to ensure everyone understands the process before they pack and move to Canada. Unlike our system where on any given day no one really knows what the magic formula is for easy migration to the USA, beyond crossing the southern border or flying into JFK and overstaying your visa. The process gives clarity to a difficult and frustrating system while trying to accomplish the one thing Canadians love about their society, it tries to remove human bias from the process. As unusual as it may sound in this day and age the need for fairness is a very important part of Canadian administrative policies. It is the one value we are losing in this new "winner takes all" climate of 21st century American politics.
2
Canada may possibly be committing cultural suicide if they prefer to keep their 'mosaic' unassimilated. This social experiment is already negatively playing out in many areas because of the religious demands of the Muslim population, both in schools and places of employment.
It'll be interesting to see how this all goes in the next decade or two.
Canadians might be disappointed with the outcome or strongly regret their current immigrant decisions. I do not believe it is all a bed of roses up north.
It'll be interesting to see how this all goes in the next decade or two.
Canadians might be disappointed with the outcome or strongly regret their current immigrant decisions. I do not believe it is all a bed of roses up north.
6
You're right that it's not all a bed of roses here, but you're wrong if you think our immigrants and refugees aren't assimilating.
Most are, but they do it by choice and to the extent that they wish, which is about the furthest thing possible from cultural suicide. What it gives us is a rich and dynamic culture.
If I were taking bets on which of our countries could fail over the next couple of decades, it would be yours, not ours.
I mean, look around you!
Most are, but they do it by choice and to the extent that they wish, which is about the furthest thing possible from cultural suicide. What it gives us is a rich and dynamic culture.
If I were taking bets on which of our countries could fail over the next couple of decades, it would be yours, not ours.
I mean, look around you!
2
"Merit" can be confusing; so too "meritocracy."
It can mean power, rule and reward based on knowledge, competence and accomplishment--the natural basis of authority-deference relations: from parent-child, to teacher-student, to professional-client ("clients" like "patients" are not employers but dependents, paying for the privilege).
But political, legal and economic power--authority-deference--need not be knowledge based; so often galling. Rights/ duties, powers/liabilities in these systems can be arbitrary, irrational. But also customary--and so they seem natural, normal, fair, deserving and "due"--thus meritocratic. Good discrimination lets all and only relevant facts count in decision making. Bad discrimination counts irrelevant ones, or not all those relevant. Bad discrimination, if customary, can seem natural, normal and merited. Thus racism--rights/duties based on race alone. But also money-ball, plutocracy--rights and duties based on money alone, regardless of how ignorant and incompetent they are.
Canada gets it right. But "merit" to Trump means scratching his back--right or wrong.
Thus his flunkies and cronies "merit" their jobs. But as "alternate facts" proves, such merit is not based on knowledge and competence regarding the public good. Rather "merit" is based on the ability to lie with a straight face, collude with Russians without getting caught, and enriching the Trump brand.
It can mean power, rule and reward based on knowledge, competence and accomplishment--the natural basis of authority-deference relations: from parent-child, to teacher-student, to professional-client ("clients" like "patients" are not employers but dependents, paying for the privilege).
But political, legal and economic power--authority-deference--need not be knowledge based; so often galling. Rights/ duties, powers/liabilities in these systems can be arbitrary, irrational. But also customary--and so they seem natural, normal, fair, deserving and "due"--thus meritocratic. Good discrimination lets all and only relevant facts count in decision making. Bad discrimination counts irrelevant ones, or not all those relevant. Bad discrimination, if customary, can seem natural, normal and merited. Thus racism--rights/duties based on race alone. But also money-ball, plutocracy--rights and duties based on money alone, regardless of how ignorant and incompetent they are.
Canada gets it right. But "merit" to Trump means scratching his back--right or wrong.
Thus his flunkies and cronies "merit" their jobs. But as "alternate facts" proves, such merit is not based on knowledge and competence regarding the public good. Rather "merit" is based on the ability to lie with a straight face, collude with Russians without getting caught, and enriching the Trump brand.
7
One of the concerns with a merit based system is that is drains countries of their best citizens when those people decide to immigrate to Canada. Canada benefits but the country from which they came falls behind in its own development and this encourages more emigration.
In a perfect world we would all be able to follow our hopes and dreams in the country of our choice. Sadly we see huge numbers of people risking everything to get to countries that offer hope.
In a perfect world we would all be able to follow our hopes and dreams in the country of our choice. Sadly we see huge numbers of people risking everything to get to countries that offer hope.
1
The author says: "Given the xenophobia now sweeping the rest of the West, Canadians’ openness might seem bizarrely magnanimous. In fact, it’s a reasonable attitude rooted in national interest."
Canada is different from the rest of the West in one fundamental way: it is huge, and it's mostly empty. It has plenty of room, and no problem expanding its infrastructure and housing stock to accommodate the additional people.
Germany, France, America, and other Western countries have less space, and less inclination to build more infrastructure in the remaining space. More people means more crowding, more traffic, and more housing shortages. Americans might be more amenable to increased immigration if the government would make a commitment to zone equivalent housing and infrastructure to match the numbers that they allow in.
This is not to detract from Canada's policy of screening for quality immigrants. Cherry picking is always a good choice when you can get away with it.
Canada is different from the rest of the West in one fundamental way: it is huge, and it's mostly empty. It has plenty of room, and no problem expanding its infrastructure and housing stock to accommodate the additional people.
Germany, France, America, and other Western countries have less space, and less inclination to build more infrastructure in the remaining space. More people means more crowding, more traffic, and more housing shortages. Americans might be more amenable to increased immigration if the government would make a commitment to zone equivalent housing and infrastructure to match the numbers that they allow in.
This is not to detract from Canada's policy of screening for quality immigrants. Cherry picking is always a good choice when you can get away with it.
5
Wow. You don't know Canada at all. Nor the US apparently. The better comparison is between US & Canada vs Europe... not all Western nations vs Canada. Wide open spaces? US has none? From an infrastructure point of view Canada and the US are very similar - even our power grids are integrated!
Americans' opposition to more immigration is not about zoning and infrastructure... need to be honest and instead to look a at culture and attitudes.
As for success in Canada... it is mixed. There is always a more detailed, nuanced story than a one page news article can cover.
Americans' opposition to more immigration is not about zoning and infrastructure... need to be honest and instead to look a at culture and attitudes.
As for success in Canada... it is mixed. There is always a more detailed, nuanced story than a one page news article can cover.
4
There is also a more nuanced story about open space and infrastructure. America has lots of space, true, but most of it is in the so-called flyover states, and much of it has limited potential for development due to water shortages, especially in the West. Most immigrants end up on the coasts, and/or in the big cities where there are plenty of people already, and little desire, budget, or space to expand the infrastructure or housing stock.
You're right though, I just guessed that Canada is more willing to expand the places where the immigrants end up, instead of packing them into more crowded cities like what happens in the US. Also, Canada is bigger than the US, with a fraction of the population.
America's cultural attitude against immigration is the worst in (you guessed it) the places with all the extra space.
You're right though, I just guessed that Canada is more willing to expand the places where the immigrants end up, instead of packing them into more crowded cities like what happens in the US. Also, Canada is bigger than the US, with a fraction of the population.
America's cultural attitude against immigration is the worst in (you guessed it) the places with all the extra space.
2
Wasn't there an article in the NYT just a few short weeks ago about some growing discontent about problems with refugees integrating and adapting to Canadian law, particularly older immigrants from these patriarchal cultures. I believe the article highlighted a few men arrested for spousal abuse (one insisted he did not know he could not hit his wives, despite his sponsors exhortations and seemed unable to desist until the police arrested him). Along with the anecdotal cases of abuse, the piece highlighted the isolation these often older male immigrants felt as well as some growing pushback among Canadian citizens about these issues.
So, I would say Canadian citizens are not necessarily in a lock-step about immigration policy and when looking for a model for US policy, no system will be perfect but perhaps we should look to develop the "merit" of our own "human capital" by investing in our citizenry...with well funded schools, removing impediments to college and training programs and keeping our population healthy throughout their lives so they can achieve and succeed ala universal healthcare. I do not understand how the GOP accepts the logic of importing talent but does next to nothing to create pathways to success for our own citizens and in fact, creates policy that impedes it.
So, I would say Canadian citizens are not necessarily in a lock-step about immigration policy and when looking for a model for US policy, no system will be perfect but perhaps we should look to develop the "merit" of our own "human capital" by investing in our citizenry...with well funded schools, removing impediments to college and training programs and keeping our population healthy throughout their lives so they can achieve and succeed ala universal healthcare. I do not understand how the GOP accepts the logic of importing talent but does next to nothing to create pathways to success for our own citizens and in fact, creates policy that impedes it.
8
It would be interesting to know details on the type of vetting done by Canada Immigration and how well that part of the government is funded for that effort.
I suspect the US ICE funding lags behind in at least some key areas. A comparison of that aspect of immigration policy would be good.
I suspect the US ICE funding lags behind in at least some key areas. A comparison of that aspect of immigration policy would be good.
3
The article is correct. But a very large number of immigrants are accepted for family reunification, as my American spouse, who I sponsored recently as a immigrant to Canada, would attest. He holds a high school diploma, is not rich and is retired, with a modest U.S. Social Security pension. As all immigrant spouses, he is also exempt from the health requirements imposed to other potential immigrants, who can be disqualified if they have serious medical conditions that could burden our health care system. So in short, our immigration system is not devoid of the "sofheaded, pinko" aspects to which the article refers - and that I would more properly call "compassion."
13
Hmmm the US does have a sort of merit based immigration policy especially for Indian and Chinese immigrants. An Indian simply can not qualify for a immigrant or work visa if she has had 3rd grade education if she can't qualify for family unification or investor categories.
2
If you ask any Canadian on his/her opinion of our immigration policy the conversation will quickly turn to our healthcare system. We all allocate a portion of our income to healthcare in every province throughout our working lives expecting that it will be there for us when and if we need it. It is there of course.
However, the average Canadian hospital emergency waiting room is crammed with people who have never contributed to the system and who came to this country after a lifetime of healthcare which was either non existant or below the standards we accept. I agree with the overall benefits of our immigration policy but we are paying a heavy price in a very sensitive area; our healthcare system.
However, the average Canadian hospital emergency waiting room is crammed with people who have never contributed to the system and who came to this country after a lifetime of healthcare which was either non existant or below the standards we accept. I agree with the overall benefits of our immigration policy but we are paying a heavy price in a very sensitive area; our healthcare system.
9
This is not how the health care is financed. It is financed through general revenues and income surtaxes, among other things. It is not something to which we "contribute" in the sense that one contributes to a pension plan. A large majority of immigrants hold jobs, and pay income and sales taxes, and are therefore contributing. But unfortunately, a certain number of Canadians do not hesitate to camouflage their uneasiness concerning immigrants behind economic concerns. Since Canada's birth rate is low (lower than that of the U.S.), we need immigrants to sustain our economy. The idea that immigrants are a financial burden is false.
14
Missing the obvious point that when your northern border is protected by the Arctic and your east/west border is protected by 1,000 of miles of ocean and your southern border is protected by the USA, you can crow all you want about "managing" immigration.
The USA does not have a problem with legal immigration.
The USA does not have a problem with legal immigration.
1
Adopting Canada’s commonsense merit-based immigration policy would lead to decades of lawsuits in the United States, where it would be labeled as racist. Open border advocates would argue that the disparate impact concept that has become entrenched in U.S. civil rights legislation also should apply to immigration. In their view, merit-based immigration would discriminate against blacks and Hispanics.
8
And yet, Trump is actually discriminating in immigration on a xenophobic basis right now. That's racism/xenophobia.
It is not racist to establish immigration criteria that apply equally to all, supplemented by a generous refugee policy that properly undertakes to do one's moral duty in the world.
Knowing what we do of Trump, it's easy to see that while he may favour a Canadian-style immigration program, that he very definitely would not complete it with an appropriate refugee program.
It is not racist to establish immigration criteria that apply equally to all, supplemented by a generous refugee policy that properly undertakes to do one's moral duty in the world.
Knowing what we do of Trump, it's easy to see that while he may favour a Canadian-style immigration program, that he very definitely would not complete it with an appropriate refugee program.
Trump hasn't proposed any changes in U.S. immigration law. He proposes to enforce immigration and deportation laws already on the book. Since most illegal immigrants are Hispanic, the laws has a disparate impact on Hispanics, but that doesn't make our immigration laws racist or xenophobia. Most Hispanic immigrants, by the way, are white.
5
So universal healthcare, not fighting a pointless war on pot and being polite are effete? How's your approach working out for you? I'd say let's settle it with a sniper dual, but non-sexist reasoning sounds a little better.
7
There is a very simple way to apply a merit based system to American immigration policy and that is employ e-verify. Fine, the first time, jail the second time, ANYONE who employs an illegal immigrant. That means the nanny, the housekeeper, the gardener, the roofer, the manicurist and the factory worker. Take out the monetary incentive for coming illegally and they won't come. Canada's point system benefits the country, while at the same time allowing refugees, who display a real need and fear. The problem the US and Europe have seen, is that anyone who gets there can claim refugee status and even if their claims are false, it can take months or years to deport them. Canada has a reality show about it's border control operations, can't see that happening in the US. Denmark simply pays immigrants who falsely claim refugee status, to return to where they came from. The US has every right to control it's borders and also every right to deport people who get there illegally. Mexico does this, Russia does this, Peru does this...somehow the US gets villified for wanting to control their borders. Canada's immigration policy has been beneficial to it's citizens and that is what a responsible government is supposed to do.
9
Canada's immigration policy is described as "ruthlessly rational." It's merit-based, seeking the highly skilled and educated, so the wretched huddled masses need not apply. The immigrants to Canada "work harder, create more businesses and typically use fewer welfare dollars." If you're a drain on the economy, you're not welcome. Sounds pretty Republican to me.
4
Actually plenty of indigents are allowed into Canada, often as refugees. One would not call most of the Cambodians, Vietnamese and many others in Canada wealthy or even economically comfortable when they arrive.
9
Canada has taken in hundreds of thousands of refugees from all over the world based on nothing more than a willingness to help those in desperate need. Doesn't sound very Republican to me!
3
Only if you ignore our generous refugee program - where is yours in the US?
4
People with higher educations tend to have less children. People without have more. Two thirds of the babies born in California come from Hispanic mothers and more than half of those are teenage girls. Higher education means more than just having better educated workers.
14
If only it would mean that everyone - Hispanic, or not - would learn basic grammar:
people with higher educations tend to have FEWER children.
people with higher educations tend to have FEWER children.
2
2/3 of babies born in California come from Hispanic mothers and more than half of those from teenage girls? Citation needed, please.
3
Where was the editor? A good one would have gotten rid of the parentheticals and too cute references.
"If it seems weird that Mr. Trump would propose Canada as a model for anything, that’s understandable."
Simply because Mr. Tepperman lacks an imagination and can only parrot the current NYTimes anti-Trump line, it does not follow that our president cannot recognize good practices when he sees them.
More significantly, if Tepperman knew anything about Trump, he would know that he is anything but conventional, so telling us what conservatives think is remarkably pointless.
Finally, it is not a given that xenophobia is sweeping the West, unless Tepperman is referring to the racial makeup of the editorial board.
Simply because Mr. Tepperman lacks an imagination and can only parrot the current NYTimes anti-Trump line, it does not follow that our president cannot recognize good practices when he sees them.
More significantly, if Tepperman knew anything about Trump, he would know that he is anything but conventional, so telling us what conservatives think is remarkably pointless.
Finally, it is not a given that xenophobia is sweeping the West, unless Tepperman is referring to the racial makeup of the editorial board.
3
I think the article is poorly researched.
Canadian immigration system has been reformed in the last decade and a half at least half a dozen times. Every time the new changes rolled out, the system became unrecognizable. Problem is, few people are aware of it, since, well, few people actively use the system more than once.
The "true" points system many refer to ceased to be some time in 2004-2006, depending on how you count; it was one of the first things that Harper reformed completely. Prior to the "reform", the points system was almost purely education-based (hence so many Ph.D.'s among immigrants); after Harper took over, it became a funny system "we admit you on points if you belong to a list of 30 professions, including line cooks, but excluding IT, or you apply through other means. Then there was a "provincial nominee" reform, where a good number of the people admitted into Canada were chosen by provinces on very different criteria. Now the "points system" essentially lets you into a pool of workers who are allowed to come to Canada and get residency if they actually get a job offer - but there are other classes too.
Mind it, that all at the same time Canada gave a very easy path to permanent residency to people on work visas (and a slightly harder path for foreign graduates of Canadian colleges), but it counted differently - in 2002, it was "points"; now it's different.
So please be specific about which Canadian system as of when you refer to.
Canadian immigration system has been reformed in the last decade and a half at least half a dozen times. Every time the new changes rolled out, the system became unrecognizable. Problem is, few people are aware of it, since, well, few people actively use the system more than once.
The "true" points system many refer to ceased to be some time in 2004-2006, depending on how you count; it was one of the first things that Harper reformed completely. Prior to the "reform", the points system was almost purely education-based (hence so many Ph.D.'s among immigrants); after Harper took over, it became a funny system "we admit you on points if you belong to a list of 30 professions, including line cooks, but excluding IT, or you apply through other means. Then there was a "provincial nominee" reform, where a good number of the people admitted into Canada were chosen by provinces on very different criteria. Now the "points system" essentially lets you into a pool of workers who are allowed to come to Canada and get residency if they actually get a job offer - but there are other classes too.
Mind it, that all at the same time Canada gave a very easy path to permanent residency to people on work visas (and a slightly harder path for foreign graduates of Canadian colleges), but it counted differently - in 2002, it was "points"; now it's different.
So please be specific about which Canadian system as of when you refer to.
It's an article of general interest, not a PhD thesis.
2
The grass is always greener on the other side of the border... Lots more trees, too...
1
I would immigrate from the neo-fascist US to Canada if it weren't for 9 months of Winter followed by 3 months of Autumn. That shows us how desperate immigrants must be.
1
You know why Canada's immigration policy is ruthless? Because they seek to take the cream-of-the-crop immigrants. Those who can only pick fruits and vegetables and slaughter meat and mow lawns and clean toilets are relegated to seeking admission to, or sneaking into, the US&A.
8
Actually we also have a scam of a program re: what we laughingly refer to as 'temporary' foreign workers, who are then readily exploited to pick fruit, staff restaurants and do all the work for which irresponsible employers refuse to pay competitive wages.
But as Canadian workers are now learning, that has been keeping all of our wages down (to say nothing of exploiting the vulnerable), so we will stop it.
Even here, though life is good, it is far from perfect.
But as Canadian workers are now learning, that has been keeping all of our wages down (to say nothing of exploiting the vulnerable), so we will stop it.
Even here, though life is good, it is far from perfect.
2
Are you saying no Canadians "pick fruits and vegetables and slaughter meat and mow lawns and clean toilets". Why that's exactly like the U.S. where there's a labor shortage on the farms and ranches.
I wonder how the Canadians manage their agricultural sector? Maybe we can learn another something from the Canadians?.
I wonder how the Canadians manage their agricultural sector? Maybe we can learn another something from the Canadians?.
1
Canada has generally always cherry picked the cream of the crop when it comes to their refugees and immigrants. Which may end up turning their society into a much more competitive environment for positions in employment and education.
Not everyone can be white collar professionals, there's also a need for hotel cleaners and restaurant staff. In the US we love taking in lower skilled to fill those growing, in demand jobs. We don't take the highly skilled as easily for some reason or another unless we need their expertise. And we already have way too many lawyers.
Not everyone can be white collar professionals, there's also a need for hotel cleaners and restaurant staff. In the US we love taking in lower skilled to fill those growing, in demand jobs. We don't take the highly skilled as easily for some reason or another unless we need their expertise. And we already have way too many lawyers.
6
By keeping families separated and not permitting poor economic migrants from Central America who cross her border illegally in search of a better life for them and their children to stay, Canada is showing herself to be heartless and cruel in a way that does not follow the lead of her kinder and and gentler neighbor to the south.
Wait. You say Canada's people are happy with their immigrants? And that the immigrants are generally accepted, well-educated, assimilating, and thriving? And that there is no spillover of disdain toward legal immigrants because everyone has confidence in a system being created for the good of the nation? How can that be?
Wait. You say Canada's people are happy with their immigrants? And that the immigrants are generally accepted, well-educated, assimilating, and thriving? And that there is no spillover of disdain toward legal immigrants because everyone has confidence in a system being created for the good of the nation? How can that be?
It isn't 1984.
1
This article is oblivious to the predominant immigrant labor need of many (most?) areas of the USA: farm workers. An article from my local paper that received national coverage discussed the crops that will not be harvested due to deported workers. All the anti immigrant sound and fury is running up against the reality of who is actually willing to do back breaking work.
1
This article sounds so logical to me. And then I realized with a start that under such a policy, I wouldn't exist. My grandfather immigrated from Europe with a 3rd grade education. He started a little business in SF and raised three children. One was my dad who became a teacher and raised three kids who also went to college. We're all employed, all taxpayers, all active members of our communities. There needs to be a path that doesn't require prosperity and education prior to arrival.
2
Your grandfather started a business: met one of the requirements so not sure what your point was supposed to be. Plus you would have existed wherever your grandfather started a family, right?
1
Certainly a merit based immigration system has its merits but we should not assume that everything is "roses" in Canada. Witness the exorbitant cost of housing in Vancouver and Toronto driven by immigration. The locals are not able to afford housing and that has translated into growing dissent.
5
As a native born Canadian, this particular passage had me rolling my eyes, "Immigrants to Canada work harder, create more businesses and typically use fewer welfare dollars than do their native-born compatriots." First, how are you measuring 'work harder'? Most Canadians work hard, immigrants and native born. Second, it is grossly inaccurate to talk about welfare usage among immigrants, since many refugees and immigrants are sponsored and are not eligible for traditional government welfare programs, but are not self-supporting yet either. I went to the link you cited supporting your statement about welfare usage and found this, "As a whole, immigrants have a somewhat higher incidence of welfare usage than the general population, but some classes of immigrants use the system far less." In other words, it's complicated.
I agree that our immigration policy is successful, but you overlook other reasons why immigrants succeed in Canada and integrate into the community smoothly. We have a well-funded public education system, an accessible post-secondary education system, a strong social safety net (including single-payer health care, unemployment insurance, maternity benefits), and strong labor laws and unions. We have access to subsidized housing and child care for those in poverty. In other words, there are many avenues to go up the ladder that are available to everyone and there are reliable safety nets if you fall. It's much easier to welcome newcomers in these conditions.
I agree that our immigration policy is successful, but you overlook other reasons why immigrants succeed in Canada and integrate into the community smoothly. We have a well-funded public education system, an accessible post-secondary education system, a strong social safety net (including single-payer health care, unemployment insurance, maternity benefits), and strong labor laws and unions. We have access to subsidized housing and child care for those in poverty. In other words, there are many avenues to go up the ladder that are available to everyone and there are reliable safety nets if you fall. It's much easier to welcome newcomers in these conditions.
21
With all respect to Canada, and to this article, we do not have to imitate anyone.
What we need is an improvement to our current immigration system.
We are all proud of our country. Immigrants into this country, have contributed significantly to that pride. Mr. Trump should be mindful of this.
What we need is an improvement to our current immigration system.
We are all proud of our country. Immigrants into this country, have contributed significantly to that pride. Mr. Trump should be mindful of this.
3
You're right. You don't have to imitate anyone. Just look at how well your attempt at health care worked out.
There are so many half truths and outright lies in this article.
First of all, we will see at the next election if Trudeau is re elected.
As for immigration, it's not true that everyone is applauding the number of immigrants and refugees. There also the problem of family reunification.There are too many older family family members admitted that drain, among other things our supposedly free healthcare. They are old, sick, and have never paid any income taxes.
Regarding this kumbaya attitude, let's start by stating that Americans would never be willing to pay the level of income taxes Canadians are stuck with. In Quebec, the sales tax is over 15%, and the income tax is sky high.
As for the free healthcare, it's going to implode soon. What with the aging population and the difficulty to find a doctor. You sometimes have to wait many many months to see a specialist and sometimes years to get an operation. All those who are in love with single payer system, please revisit your hopes, as you will get the same in terms of very very high income taxes.
With so many new comers, you also have rarity in terms of housing. Look at the market in major cities. The middle class is being chased by immigrants.
Now the deficits. Trudeau repeats over and over that deficits don't matter. I he is just like his father who left the country bankrupt.
And you want to emulate Canada, a country that does not have a culture. Dixie Trudeau. No, Canadians are not thrilled.
First of all, we will see at the next election if Trudeau is re elected.
As for immigration, it's not true that everyone is applauding the number of immigrants and refugees. There also the problem of family reunification.There are too many older family family members admitted that drain, among other things our supposedly free healthcare. They are old, sick, and have never paid any income taxes.
Regarding this kumbaya attitude, let's start by stating that Americans would never be willing to pay the level of income taxes Canadians are stuck with. In Quebec, the sales tax is over 15%, and the income tax is sky high.
As for the free healthcare, it's going to implode soon. What with the aging population and the difficulty to find a doctor. You sometimes have to wait many many months to see a specialist and sometimes years to get an operation. All those who are in love with single payer system, please revisit your hopes, as you will get the same in terms of very very high income taxes.
With so many new comers, you also have rarity in terms of housing. Look at the market in major cities. The middle class is being chased by immigrants.
Now the deficits. Trudeau repeats over and over that deficits don't matter. I he is just like his father who left the country bankrupt.
And you want to emulate Canada, a country that does not have a culture. Dixie Trudeau. No, Canadians are not thrilled.
1
Canada does not want it's immigrants to assimilate. The message is: your culture is a plus for the country. So what happens is you have enclaves of ethnicities that don't speak with each other. And many who don't even speak English or French. You have cultures that are opposed to our western ways and we applaud. How crazy is that?
Look at Trudeau. He loves to put on disguises. Seriously. He dresses in all kinds of foreign garbs. He even called a newly accepted Canadian who was wearing a full face veil to congratulate her. Again, how crazy is that? He visited a mosque with female ministers and these women had to hide on the balcony as not to offend Muslim men. And you want that kind of culture?
The US should control its immigration with a point based system, but please don't take Canada as a reference.
Look at Trudeau. He loves to put on disguises. Seriously. He dresses in all kinds of foreign garbs. He even called a newly accepted Canadian who was wearing a full face veil to congratulate her. Again, how crazy is that? He visited a mosque with female ministers and these women had to hide on the balcony as not to offend Muslim men. And you want that kind of culture?
The US should control its immigration with a point based system, but please don't take Canada as a reference.
1
President Trump's fault is that he knows a good thing when he sees it and says so, unlike the typical the politician who tries to game both sides.
Indeed, meritocratic immigration would be the smarter way to run policy for the US, but it's not this President nor Republicans that need convincing on the matter.
The idea is anathema for Democrats who've campaigned for decades to maintain the status quo or to grant amnesty as a means of grooming generations of loyal voters. Turn the Democrats and a merit-based policy will become reality.
Indeed, meritocratic immigration would be the smarter way to run policy for the US, but it's not this President nor Republicans that need convincing on the matter.
The idea is anathema for Democrats who've campaigned for decades to maintain the status quo or to grant amnesty as a means of grooming generations of loyal voters. Turn the Democrats and a merit-based policy will become reality.
2
One of the main qualities of Canada's immigration policy is that it is relatively objective, clear and transparent. The evaluation variables are explicit and the process is standardized. Like for a lot else, policy, rules and administration are far less convoluted in Canada than in the USA.
Implementation, however, is another matter. There is a huge backlog that causes many people a great deal of stress and hardship. The government is taking measures to clear the backlog, but its sheer size is very challenging, causing people to be in limbo sometimes for years.
There are also serious issues for credentialed people trying to settle in Canada. They settle only to learn that their credentials are not recognized, it is often insanely difficult to become credentialed, so they give up and manage working in occupations well below their skill levels just to survive.
Tolerance in Canada ranges from very satisfactory to terrible, depending on where you are and who you talk with.
Implementation, however, is another matter. There is a huge backlog that causes many people a great deal of stress and hardship. The government is taking measures to clear the backlog, but its sheer size is very challenging, causing people to be in limbo sometimes for years.
There are also serious issues for credentialed people trying to settle in Canada. They settle only to learn that their credentials are not recognized, it is often insanely difficult to become credentialed, so they give up and manage working in occupations well below their skill levels just to survive.
Tolerance in Canada ranges from very satisfactory to terrible, depending on where you are and who you talk with.
8
The reason Canada's immigration system would not work in the US is our lack of systems caring for current citizens. While Canada's provinces vary by how they spend what resources they have on health care, income support and education for citizens, overall Canada provides its citizens with the foundations for a safe and healthy life without demeaning, useless means testing for essential programs. Canada is in the position of welcoming immigrants through a merit-based system into a country where current citizens have basic needs met.
Canada still faces the challenges of the burdens of fixing past damage to First People (or whatever their current respectful term is for indigenous people) whose outcomes often do not rise to the level expected of Canadian citizens. Unlike the US which has not kept the promises it made in treaty documents, Canada under many governments seems to keep trying.
The individual families, charities, religious organizations in Canada who have sponsored their most recent refugees from war are very similar to the groups in the US who also welcomed refugees from war, famine and civil unrest. Helping people from cities in warm climates adjust to life in rural Nova Scotia as a recent NYT article showed is no easy task just as it wasn't for the Hmong farmers and Somalia professionals who came to Minnesota. Local communities can succeed where governments fail because people see each other as individuals not groups to be feared or used by politicians.
Canada still faces the challenges of the burdens of fixing past damage to First People (or whatever their current respectful term is for indigenous people) whose outcomes often do not rise to the level expected of Canadian citizens. Unlike the US which has not kept the promises it made in treaty documents, Canada under many governments seems to keep trying.
The individual families, charities, religious organizations in Canada who have sponsored their most recent refugees from war are very similar to the groups in the US who also welcomed refugees from war, famine and civil unrest. Helping people from cities in warm climates adjust to life in rural Nova Scotia as a recent NYT article showed is no easy task just as it wasn't for the Hmong farmers and Somalia professionals who came to Minnesota. Local communities can succeed where governments fail because people see each other as individuals not groups to be feared or used by politicians.
10
The southern border of Canada is very different than the southern border of the US.
That apart a few immediate changes could greatly impact the legal immigration process. This is not dissimilar to the Canadian model.
Firstly, get rid of the so called diversity visa program. This admits 50,000 people to the US every year for no other reason than being historically under-represented in the US. No education or skills required. Aren't we diverse enough?
Secondly, an immigration application should stop with immediate family - immigrant, spouse and minor kids.
An immigrant should not be allowed to achieve citizenship and then "sponsor" a whole lot of family - from parents to siblings.
Too often immigrants - especially the elderly - can get citizenship after 5 years and claim services for which he has not really contributed.
An immigrant makes a choice to go to a different land. If they miss family, they can always go back.
Thirdly focus on immigrants who will contribute. Yes immigrants spur the growth that is vital to the economy. But growth in productive sectors must be emphasized.
An option is for the H1 - a much derided visa program - to be modified to become the sole pathway to a work permit and immigration to this country. This will mean making the H1 more broad based (away from the tech focus).
If a person can work and be productive here, giving such people an immigrant visa makes more sense. Obviously American workers also need to be safeguarded.
That apart a few immediate changes could greatly impact the legal immigration process. This is not dissimilar to the Canadian model.
Firstly, get rid of the so called diversity visa program. This admits 50,000 people to the US every year for no other reason than being historically under-represented in the US. No education or skills required. Aren't we diverse enough?
Secondly, an immigration application should stop with immediate family - immigrant, spouse and minor kids.
An immigrant should not be allowed to achieve citizenship and then "sponsor" a whole lot of family - from parents to siblings.
Too often immigrants - especially the elderly - can get citizenship after 5 years and claim services for which he has not really contributed.
An immigrant makes a choice to go to a different land. If they miss family, they can always go back.
Thirdly focus on immigrants who will contribute. Yes immigrants spur the growth that is vital to the economy. But growth in productive sectors must be emphasized.
An option is for the H1 - a much derided visa program - to be modified to become the sole pathway to a work permit and immigration to this country. This will mean making the H1 more broad based (away from the tech focus).
If a person can work and be productive here, giving such people an immigrant visa makes more sense. Obviously American workers also need to be safeguarded.
7
This article praises Canada’s merit based system of legal immigration. It’s a no-brainer that admitting skilled, well educated immigrants is a win-win for all involved. The new global economic model is skill, not labor based. Canada’s legal immigrants are much more likely to be self sufficient and embrace their national values.
Conversely, most of the millions of illegals immigrants that have crossed into the US from our southern border would be rejected by a merit based system. Their educational levels and literacy are low. Most can’t read/write/speak our language. Their poor skills force them to live in poverty and live in self imposed ghettos, thereby rejecting assimilation.
Their children have a disproportionately higher drop-out rate. Teen pregnancies are common, locking the next generation into a cycle of failure.
We need to fix both forms of immigration and seek the best the world has to offer.
Conversely, most of the millions of illegals immigrants that have crossed into the US from our southern border would be rejected by a merit based system. Their educational levels and literacy are low. Most can’t read/write/speak our language. Their poor skills force them to live in poverty and live in self imposed ghettos, thereby rejecting assimilation.
Their children have a disproportionately higher drop-out rate. Teen pregnancies are common, locking the next generation into a cycle of failure.
We need to fix both forms of immigration and seek the best the world has to offer.
7
For the most part immigration into the US means cheap labor. This may increase profits and total production, but it does not necessarily increase GDP/capita, and certainly tends to reduce low-end wages, even outside the areas (e.g. agriculture, construction) which use the labor the most. We need immigration policies which are aimed at benefiting everyone, not just employers. Liberals should be working toward a decent wage for immigrants as well as natives.
A decent minimum wage would reduce illegal immigration considerably. Of course it would have to be strictly enforced (as well as other labor laws). Canada's minimum wage is set by the provinces, but starts at over $10.
A decent minimum wage would reduce illegal immigration considerably. Of course it would have to be strictly enforced (as well as other labor laws). Canada's minimum wage is set by the provinces, but starts at over $10.
5
Check out what the $15 min wage has done in Seattle
A merit-based immigration system would be a good solution for the EU as well. Freedom of movement within the EU has led to a great influx of unskilled people from poorer EU member states to richer ones, with mostly low educated migrants struggling to get jobs and relying on public assistance. With migrants from outside the EU the situation is even worse because their educational level is usually generally lower. Instead of allowing in sorely needed skilled specialists, many people who are effectively illiterate and unsuited for today's modern job market are being let in with little prospect of succeeding in a modern society. At the same time, their countries of origin are being drained of workers who could contribute to building up their own domestic economies. Another example of globalization often creating more problems than it solves.
9
Actually there is a family reunification immigration policy in Canada also but it probably not as big a factor as in the US. Should note also the point system works with the current job needs of the country to bring people who can contribute to specific skill shortages. Canada also has a seasonal agricultural worker program and high skills temporary worker program along with one linked to our higher education system. There is a belief among some in the current government that Canada should be looking at a population at the end of the century of a 100 million. This might make sense with global warming and the increase in livable land. Historically Canada did take in many landless people just as the US did, but that was was when there was plenty of free land in both countries and plentiful jobs in expanding manufacturing. That is not true in either country any more. On the other side Canadians are a little hypocritical since we essentially have no borders that can easily be crossed and there fore can pick and choose..
8
Picking the cream of the crop makes practical sense, but it's out of keeping with the U.S. tradition of welcoming the outcast and the downtrodden. Our nation was built by those who fled oppression and misery at home and sought new opportunity in a strange land.
In practice we have often failed to live up to the ideals of optimism and hospitality, but still I would grieve to see us officially jettison those ideals in favor of cold pragmatism.
In practice we have often failed to live up to the ideals of optimism and hospitality, but still I would grieve to see us officially jettison those ideals in favor of cold pragmatism.
6
The irony being that our President is a meritless boob who was born into wealth, and is failing miserably at the first job he's ever had with oversight of his performance.
8
Canada, a model country for
diversity and inclusion, without the U.S.'s shackles of 'racism' still rearing it's ugly face....and currently with an arrogant know-nothing vulgar bully at the helm, one where humility, and apology when insulting and screwing up, is absent from his lexicon. Canada is a fresh breath of air compared with the toxic environment of incompetence and corruption elsewhere.
diversity and inclusion, without the U.S.'s shackles of 'racism' still rearing it's ugly face....and currently with an arrogant know-nothing vulgar bully at the helm, one where humility, and apology when insulting and screwing up, is absent from his lexicon. Canada is a fresh breath of air compared with the toxic environment of incompetence and corruption elsewhere.
1
Please don't lecture us about the quality of Canadian immigrants when only a week ago one of them came to America and stabbed a police officer in the neck shouting an Islamic phrase. Geeez...
9
OK, we won't. It would obviously be pointless anyway.
3
My goodness...The NY Times is allowing an op-ed that denies open borders?
I'm in shock.
I'm in shock.
6
There is some problem with the statistics. "7% less likely to live in poverty" is stongly contradictory, subjectively, (or a misprint) to the much more optimistic data presented on education and home ownership. NYT: Is it 17% or 27%? A typo?
2
While Trudeau is wearing silly socks to gay pride parades, Canada's immigration policy is falling apart. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-immigration-canada-refugees-idUSK...
4
Hardly falling apart - just over-burdened with refugees coming from an unexpected direction - the US.
The unemployment rate among young black men is astronomical.
Yet the same folks who purport to care deeply about this cohort also advocate for unfettered immigration.
We need to overhaul our immigration policy to reflect the needs of Americans already here.
There is no need for millions more unskilled labor when we have a large labor pool already here, and willing to work, and yet remain unemployed.
Of course, the more one analyzes this strange position from the left, it becomes apparent that a great many on the left actually do buy into the canard that Americans don't want to work. Yet they point fingers at others. It's distressing to see so-called progressives claim they want to help, but do the opposite.
They can help out of work, low-wage earners in an instant- stem the flow of immigration of unskilled workers. It will help reduce unemployment among younger black workers.
Yet the same folks who purport to care deeply about this cohort also advocate for unfettered immigration.
We need to overhaul our immigration policy to reflect the needs of Americans already here.
There is no need for millions more unskilled labor when we have a large labor pool already here, and willing to work, and yet remain unemployed.
Of course, the more one analyzes this strange position from the left, it becomes apparent that a great many on the left actually do buy into the canard that Americans don't want to work. Yet they point fingers at others. It's distressing to see so-called progressives claim they want to help, but do the opposite.
They can help out of work, low-wage earners in an instant- stem the flow of immigration of unskilled workers. It will help reduce unemployment among younger black workers.
13
Although this a rational suggestion in theory, the problem is that these people are not where many of the jobs that unskilled immigrants are performing are. For example, how would inner city unemployed get to the sites where migrant farm workers go to harvest crops? This was discussed during the recession, and the few city people who went to farms rarely lasted a full day, because it is really hard work. There are many jobs in cities that are taken by undocumented immigrants but they also tend to be of the backbreaking type, such as maids and janitors, health aids, back-of-the-house restaurant workers. Are the workers you reference willing to take these jobs, or move to other parts of the country where work might be available?
2
I suspect it's not as simple as that. For one thing, most young black men live in cities and are unlikely to move to agriculture centers for work. But I concede your point and have come round to it, despite being a first-generation immigrant myself.
The Trump phenomenon has forced me to reevaluate my core belief that the benefits of immigration, globalization and free trade have outweighed the costs. For too long, Democrats have ignored the "losers" under our current system and we're paying for it now, election loss after loss. Surely, our current opioid crisis is one of the unintended consequences.
From my vantage in Los Angeles, perhaps the epicenter of the immigration debate, I have come to believe that a merit-based system makes sense economically, and more importantly, politically. Nothing else will nudge us out of our stalemate. The fact that I only came to this conclusion after a week of thoughtful essays such as this is proof that rational debate is possible.
The Trump phenomenon has forced me to reevaluate my core belief that the benefits of immigration, globalization and free trade have outweighed the costs. For too long, Democrats have ignored the "losers" under our current system and we're paying for it now, election loss after loss. Surely, our current opioid crisis is one of the unintended consequences.
From my vantage in Los Angeles, perhaps the epicenter of the immigration debate, I have come to believe that a merit-based system makes sense economically, and more importantly, politically. Nothing else will nudge us out of our stalemate. The fact that I only came to this conclusion after a week of thoughtful essays such as this is proof that rational debate is possible.
No such thing as an undocumented immigrant, immigrants some to the US legally, the others are illegal aliens
1
Canada accepts between 240,000 to 265,000,000 to 265,000 legal immigrants per year while the United States accepts about one million legal immigrant a year while absorbing more illegal immigrants per year than Canada accepts legal immigrants. Canada has a population density of nine people per square mile while the United States has a population density of 86 per square mile.
The United States is much more racially diverse than Canada. The United States is about 67 percent nom-Hispanic white while Canada is about 76 percent non-Hispanic white. Canada seems more ethnically diverse only because it doesn't lump its white residents into a single ethnic group labeled non-Hispanic white. It breaks them down into ancestral groups such as English Canadian, French Canadian, German Canadian, Irish Canadian, Swiss Canadian, etc.
The United States is much more racially diverse than Canada. The United States is about 67 percent nom-Hispanic white while Canada is about 76 percent non-Hispanic white. Canada seems more ethnically diverse only because it doesn't lump its white residents into a single ethnic group labeled non-Hispanic white. It breaks them down into ancestral groups such as English Canadian, French Canadian, German Canadian, Irish Canadian, Swiss Canadian, etc.
4
Most simply, Canada's unofficial (official) motto is; Peace, order, and good government. Whereas the US it's Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
See the nuance?
See the nuance?
7
Canada's point-based system screens out: older applicants, less educated, nonfluent in English and/or French, and less likely to assimilate (no friends or relatives in Canada.) Thus more successful integration, more private support network, and less likely to go on public assistance or burden the national healthcare system (since older immigrants pretty much screened out.) Our unmanaged system ensures the majority of immigrants (undocumented) are not educated, not fluent in English, likely to need public services, etc, while our legal immigration system limits highly educated first world applicants.
And, while Canada has reformed its "investor" visa system, access to the US is still open to the highest bidder (hello, Trump family!)
Broken indeed!
And, while Canada has reformed its "investor" visa system, access to the US is still open to the highest bidder (hello, Trump family!)
Broken indeed!
2
Can I just point out we have spent some time this morning discussing immigration rationally, largely free of insults or personal recriminations.
So why can't Congress do the same?
So why can't Congress do the same?
7
We don't have to concern ourselves with getting elected again. Once they get elected, they spend 3/4 of the time getting themselves elected the next time. And the current Mob mentality around elections encourages the nastier the more successful.
1
Is it ruthlessly smart? Liberals in the US often point to Canada as a wonderful almost socialist experiment. This very liberal country is one of the worst exploiters of the worlds carbon resources. Extracting and selling huge amounts of natural resources, not dissimilar to Norway. While they aren't big carbon users, they are big carbon enablers. Not dissimilar to drug producing countries who export addiction and family destruction. There immigration policy is very similar. Bring in the elites with money and pour it into the Canadian economy.
The US expanded from sea to shining sea by bringing in the oppressed across the globe who actually built this country with their labor instead of their checkbooks.
"Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore, Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"
The US is about more than your wallet, it's about your potential and opportunity and a very large diverse population that brings a huge pool of labor and ideas along with it.
Our roads are crumbling, parks and schools failing, public institutions are disappearing. You can't just write a check. You need people to build and use them.
The US expanded from sea to shining sea by bringing in the oppressed across the globe who actually built this country with their labor instead of their checkbooks.
"Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore, Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"
The US is about more than your wallet, it's about your potential and opportunity and a very large diverse population that brings a huge pool of labor and ideas along with it.
Our roads are crumbling, parks and schools failing, public institutions are disappearing. You can't just write a check. You need people to build and use them.
I'm not planning on over-admiring Canada anytime soon. Their mining and energy companies are raping the world. Their history with their own indigenous populations is as bad as ours.
And the challenges they are soon going to have with all those generously-resettled refugees--when even highly-educated South Asian immigrants bring retrograde social attitudes with them--
A former niece-by-marriage and her husband--nice "modern" young people who married for love--have four daughters, most born and all raised in Canada. The husband completed his graduate education in Canada, got a good job, and the family has dual citizenship. Their youngest child was born with a severe heart defect and has several surgeries, and may possibly need more as she grows. But the parents have moved back to Pakistan--to a province riven by terrorist violence and where their daughters--as children of a "high-status" family--will be expected to be veiled in public. The greater danger, as far as the parents are concerned, is the freedom of Western society and how it might seduce their girls.
One anecdote, sure--but quite illustrative of how a very large segment of the immigrant population thinks. They can go back to Canada if they need to--but those girls will likely be "safely" married by then. Too bad they had that taste of how most Canadians live. It's just a memory now.
And the challenges they are soon going to have with all those generously-resettled refugees--when even highly-educated South Asian immigrants bring retrograde social attitudes with them--
A former niece-by-marriage and her husband--nice "modern" young people who married for love--have four daughters, most born and all raised in Canada. The husband completed his graduate education in Canada, got a good job, and the family has dual citizenship. Their youngest child was born with a severe heart defect and has several surgeries, and may possibly need more as she grows. But the parents have moved back to Pakistan--to a province riven by terrorist violence and where their daughters--as children of a "high-status" family--will be expected to be veiled in public. The greater danger, as far as the parents are concerned, is the freedom of Western society and how it might seduce their girls.
One anecdote, sure--but quite illustrative of how a very large segment of the immigrant population thinks. They can go back to Canada if they need to--but those girls will likely be "safely" married by then. Too bad they had that taste of how most Canadians live. It's just a memory now.
6
A terrific piece. Well done, Tepperman.
3
Sounds like an elitist....
Perhaps Mr Tepperman should read the complete immigration laws of Canada, such as this section:
"The maximum penalty for a person who commits such a general offense as entering the country unlawfully or unlawfully overstaying a visa is a fine of Can$50,000 and imprisonment for two years, if prosecuted by way of an indictment, and a fine of $10,000 and imprisonment for six months, if prosecuted in summary proceedings."
Be careful what you wish for, you might get it.
"The maximum penalty for a person who commits such a general offense as entering the country unlawfully or unlawfully overstaying a visa is a fine of Can$50,000 and imprisonment for two years, if prosecuted by way of an indictment, and a fine of $10,000 and imprisonment for six months, if prosecuted in summary proceedings."
Be careful what you wish for, you might get it.
2
May be time to revisit the 1965 immigration act
1
Yep, Canada will not take American retirees as immigrants. No contribution to industry or education, not welcome. So, no refuge in Canada from Trump and Republican destruction of our country.
4
This piece is fundamentally dishonest. Trump's immigration platform during his presidential campaign centered on ILLEGAL immigration. Most articles on immigration that the NY Times publishes purposefully ignores the distinction between illegal and legal entry into the USA. It seems that no major "news" source these days is even close to free from transparent political bias.
5
Oh, Canada! Home to our own Nez Perce Chief Joseph who fled from our persecution and who said, “I believe much trouble and blood would be saved if we opened our hearts more.”
Home to our own persecuted and desperate slaves who followed the stars to get to Canada and to freedom.
Good for them and good for Canada.
Home to our own persecuted and desperate slaves who followed the stars to get to Canada and to freedom.
Good for them and good for Canada.
2
What? We don't have an accent!
4
Canada is on the road to ruin. Multiculturalism does not work in the long run and too much immigration is insanity. Have they learned nothing from Europe's mistakes? But enjoy your economy in the meantime.
2
How about RETAINING one's citizenship based on merit?
Ooooh - let's not go there....
Ooooh - let's not go there....
1
Do, let's go there, Jim: New Canadian citizens retain thei citizenship of their country of birth. We have dual citizenship.
One thing this article misses is that most Canadian immigrants come from Asia, not Mexico.
2
Would such a policy work here with our porous southern border?
2
Canada does not have immigration as such since most immigrants settle in a few large cities such as Vancouver and Toronto and often create enclaves. Most of our immigration historically has been by those with a desire for a better life our new policy accepts those who are usually well off in their own country. We Canadians do not have the Mexican border or the mass of illegal immigrants that America does. Canada has it's own problems and we are also very diverse just like America so comparisons can be difficult. We have health care and I paid a lot of income tax and others but I went without a family doctor for six years while my taxes paid for others doctors. Immigration and culture all have issues that impact individuals differently. Come to Canada and see for yourself.
Extended family reunification was always a bad idea: it is eternal nepotism, nothing more. Only 16 percent of immigrants to the US come for business purposes. The idea of a meritocratic system isn't just Canada's; it was one of many fine recommendations made by the Jordan Commission during the Clinton presidency -- another was a ban on new low-skill immigrants, a protection for America's working poor and also for our threadbare social safety net. That Bill Clinton didn't adopt the recommendations was one of the greatest mistakes of his presidency. But let's also be a bit kinder to the US. The Canadian system is smart and comparatively generous: Canada takes, according to the piece, some 350,00 immigrants a year. Compare that to the US's taking in 1.2 million legal immigrants while anywhere from 400,000 to 600,000 enter illegally --- the combination is like adding two cities the size of Philadelphia every year with predictable impacts on the welfare system, job competition, etc President Trump has been the only public figure to have proposed bringing these astronomical numbers back to "historic norms," i.e. lowering the numbers radically. It was a centerpiece of his immigration speech in Phoenix during the campaign. But in a recent interview with "The Economist" he walked back the pledge. As long as our numbers remain this absurdly high -- we take more immigrants a year than the entire rest of the world combined -- our reforms come down to worrying about wimples.
47
Canada is taking in 1% of its population as legal immigrants per year. The USA is taking in less than 4/10ths of 1%. Roughly one-third or so of Canada's annual immigrants settle in the Greater Toronto Area, so the challenge there is not much different than it would be for mid and large size US cities, and there are more of them in which to spread the numbers compared with Canada.
1
25% of Boston's metro region population are recently landed immigrants.
We need a time out or slow down of legal immigration to allow assimilation.
The extraordinary rising rents are reflected in a larger population, as well as congestion on public transport and roads.
We can not keep these immigration numbers up as it is.
We need a time out or slow down of legal immigration to allow assimilation.
The extraordinary rising rents are reflected in a larger population, as well as congestion on public transport and roads.
We can not keep these immigration numbers up as it is.
1
Cod has a point. The tendency of recent immigrants to "cluster" in certain areas can become a problem.
As seen in the real estate boom in parts of British Columbia, Toronto and Montreal since the late 1980s, the effect of this clustering is much higher real estate prices, making those areas significantly less affordable. In Canada, too, the more favorable areas are limited by harsh winters which most immigrants have trouble accepting.
As seen in the real estate boom in parts of British Columbia, Toronto and Montreal since the late 1980s, the effect of this clustering is much higher real estate prices, making those areas significantly less affordable. In Canada, too, the more favorable areas are limited by harsh winters which most immigrants have trouble accepting.
Canada handles immigration correctly. Certainly the USA should follow suit. But I doubt that "Progressives" would be happy with the policy. I'd bet they'd claim it was discriminatory.
1
You can't have a merit based immigration system in the U.S. without a wall, and much stricter immigration control across the board. What if the U.S. implemented a Canadian type policy tomorrow. What would change at the southern border? Managing legal immigration and controlling illegal immigration are two separate issues.
1
And Canadians have universal healthcare and sensible gun control. If Canada can figure these things out, what's America's excuse?
15
The editorial makes an important omission that factors into Canadian immigration policies yet would never be adopted here in the United States. As a matter of law, Canadian employers must prioritize citizens and Landed Immigrants in hiring decisions. To offer a job to a non-citizen, employers must first prove that they could not find a qualified Canadian. For all his "America First" rhetoric, Trump would never dare attempt something similar.
7
We Canadians welcome Americans to immigrate to our country too. You'll have to pass the merit points threshold like everyone else, and we won't even consider if you come from a red state.
But you may not like it here. Healthcare is generally paid by the state, guns are pretty much outlawed, no one asks the religious practices of politicians, and we like multi-national trade treaties and organizations.
But you may not like it here. Healthcare is generally paid by the state, guns are pretty much outlawed, no one asks the religious practices of politicians, and we like multi-national trade treaties and organizations.
11
There are lots of guns here and even legal ones and while we may like multi national trade agreements we do not allow much inter provincial trade. Our last Prime Minister wore his religion on his shirt sleeve. I find that America and Canada are often similar but we should try to copy each other's success stories and that goes for the regions in each country as well. Canadians and Americans should not be smug and one countries gain is often good for the other and the same for losses.
3
Please see the comment on geography below and how it affects immigration patters to the US and Canada. Many (perhaps most) of the impoverished immigrants who enter the US through our southern border wouldn't pass the merit points threshold (especially the education and English/French language fluency requirements). They might indeed love Canada, but will never get a chance to live there.
Hey Tom
Of course there are guns in Canada, and the last PM was somewhat religious, and inter-provincial trade has barriers.
My post was a bit cheeky, sure, but my comparatives between the two countries are very true. Compared to the US, it is extremely hard to get a gun (ergo violent crimes and incarceration rates are much lower), and the PM's religious affairs were very private (I actually don't know his religion, and don't care).
Canada has always had a great admiration for the US in many areas. I think most Canadians are very concerned with the way the US is heading these years, with it's poisonous politics and retraction from world leadership.
Of course there are guns in Canada, and the last PM was somewhat religious, and inter-provincial trade has barriers.
My post was a bit cheeky, sure, but my comparatives between the two countries are very true. Compared to the US, it is extremely hard to get a gun (ergo violent crimes and incarceration rates are much lower), and the PM's religious affairs were very private (I actually don't know his religion, and don't care).
Canada has always had a great admiration for the US in many areas. I think most Canadians are very concerned with the way the US is heading these years, with it's poisonous politics and retraction from world leadership.
1
This piece misses an important point: geography. Canada has the US on its border and by and large the US doesn't have a lot of desperately poor people trying to cross into Canada to send a little money home to families (although it might make sense for some of us to do that). The US has Mexico on its border and is close to Central America, where desperately poor and oppressed people, some illiterate in their own languages, will risk death to cross over to the US in search of a better life. Therefore, US immigration policies cannot be like Canada's. We have two radically different immigration patterns.
21
You have a valid point there, but the US has very strict laws even for people who want to migrate Legally, people who happen to have Education, are in Good Health and have Specialized Skills, and who might want to migrate to the U. S. for more opportunities or more challenging and better-paid jobs, so having a system similar to Canada for Legal Inmigration would not be a bad idea, since Canadian Inmigration asks you to come to their country with CA$10,000, be in good health, have already a job offer before you even get to the country and some points if you already have well-educated family in the country, a minimum level of English, background checks and if you are married you win more points, to mention the key Canadian requirements. At least for Legal Inmigration, it would not be a bad idea for the U.S. to look at the Canadian Inmigration System, with modifications that correspond to the U.S. goals and interests, as far as illegal immigration I acknowledge that many of the countries where this type of immigration come from would need to greatly improve the quality of life so that people would not feel the need to leave their country, even if that entails doing it in an illegal way, a lot of cooperation needs to be done between the U.S., Canada, Mexico and Central America to solve this particular problem and to start making progress.
2
All I can tell you is that I love the cosmopolitan mix that the large number of immigrants provides the "Canadian experience" when I visit. I wish more places in the US were like that.
4
Where do you visit since most immigrants go to a few cities such as Toronto. The concentration of immigrants and population will eventually cause problems with demographics and political concentration of power. I see a time when my country disintegrates because of immigration
1
My wife is a wonderful UK trained nurse and immigrant. You can't do any better than this. I may be prejudiced, but every doctor she has worked confirms it.
Immigrants have always been the life blood of our nation though we always complain about it due to our me first attitude. The problem is we barely educate our long term residents. Without a deeper commitment to educating all of our residents we will become a second class nation with or without immigrants.
Immigrants have always been the life blood of our nation though we always complain about it due to our me first attitude. The problem is we barely educate our long term residents. Without a deeper commitment to educating all of our residents we will become a second class nation with or without immigrants.
10
The Canadian system can be modified to include one more criteria and that is Family unification. The idea is not to make it the only criteria but one of the six or seven items on a point system. The statistic which is most telling is the 27% of college grads who are admitted to the US. That percentage should be higher and close to 50% or more.
7
When we take highly educated immigrants we are poaching skills from countries that often need those people and skills. Countries spend a lot educating people and then to have them leave for wealthy countries seems less than fair. Increasing population in Canada increases the amount of resources we use and carbon we create so it is not neutral.
Merit-based immigration is essentially a more effective form of colonialism.
In the colonial model, the colonizer extracted natural resources, but incurred a substantial cost of administering/subjugating the population.
In today’s economy, human resources are even more important than natural resources. Merit-based immigration brilliantly eliminates the cost of administration/subjugation as well as the cost of resource development (i.e. education), but retains all the benefits of the resource for the colonizer.
All things considered, it would be a good deal for the U.S.
In the colonial model, the colonizer extracted natural resources, but incurred a substantial cost of administering/subjugating the population.
In today’s economy, human resources are even more important than natural resources. Merit-based immigration brilliantly eliminates the cost of administration/subjugation as well as the cost of resource development (i.e. education), but retains all the benefits of the resource for the colonizer.
All things considered, it would be a good deal for the U.S.
9
Indian emigrants, probably the largest well-educated diaspora in the world, send back over $70 billion every year in remittances.
I believe the number for China and Mexico is about $50 billion per annum.
This is not colonialism. And its not just a good deal for the host country but also for the 'exporting' country.
I believe the number for China and Mexico is about $50 billion per annum.
This is not colonialism. And its not just a good deal for the host country but also for the 'exporting' country.
2
Serial:
Excellent point on remittances. I hadn't considered that.
Thanks.
Excellent point on remittances. I hadn't considered that.
Thanks.
2
Frankly any thinking person would have adopted the Canadian (reasoned) approach to immigration a long time ago. Our "family" oriented policies and the allocation to achieve diversity are not rational if one wants prosperity and not decline.
13
We need to get away from this idea expressed by many in this blog that meritocracy means that we will be limiting immigration to white engineers from Europe. Many of these same bloggers say that we need illegal immigration for menial jobs. Why not fill these jobs with legal immigrants from diverse geographic, racial, and religious backgrounds?
7
This policy would be a disaster for the US. I'll leave it to our incompetent leaders to figure out why, and I'm sure they'll fail.
Canada has taken the position that in order to compete globally it must find ways to grow. The electorate understands that future success is in part based on successfully managed population growth. With the birth rate being approximately 1% immigration has to pick up the slack. But perhaps more importantly the electorate understands that diversity is a strength to be leveraged and enjoyed. For example, who would have thought that Shawarma and Bi Bim Bap would as popular as Poutine? The world is big and small at the same time. We should all try to enjoy it.
Happy 150 Canada!!!!!
Happy 150 Canada!!!!!
26
Why do we need to grow the population and what is the ideal number or should we have eternal growth. I support immigration but there are questions and problems that need attention.
The US should allow merit based entry along with reunification and cancel all other forms of immigration aside from refugee and asylum programs. End result = more immigrants and that is a very good thing for our economy.
2
Here in Quebec 70% of our new doctors are female. There is no quota system our new doctors graduate with little debt whether their parents are millionaires or paupers. This alone is in total contradiction to the GOP moral philosophy. Our new doctors enter medicine as the best qualified not with the best parents or bank account. I cannot imagine the Kochs, Mitt Romney, John McCain or George Bush Sr or Jr reaching the top on their merit in anything. William F Buckley Jr was the son of one of the world's richest men with the best education money could buy but underperformed in debate against real intellectuals.
There is no way the GOP base would accept Canadian immigration policies given their inability to compete given a playing field that is even now tilted heavily in their favour.
America's inability to adapt since Reagan can be attributed to a political system that handicaps cities and their diversity and puts old ignorant men in charge.
What this article fails to mention is that Adrienne Clarkson the Hong Kong born Governor General is one of the World's leading intellectuals.
Her latest books on the immigrant experience are a must read.
There is no way the GOP base would accept Canadian immigration policies given their inability to compete given a playing field that is even now tilted heavily in their favour.
America's inability to adapt since Reagan can be attributed to a political system that handicaps cities and their diversity and puts old ignorant men in charge.
What this article fails to mention is that Adrienne Clarkson the Hong Kong born Governor General is one of the World's leading intellectuals.
Her latest books on the immigrant experience are a must read.
34
Madame Jean was an immigrant from the Caribbean..and yes, black.
1
sjag37
Madame Jean is indeed black and brilliant. Madame Jean is still making her mark in the world. Adrienne Clarkson is of Chinese ancestry and continues make a huge mark. We have every reason to be grateful to both of them.
I grew up with Adrienne Clarkson when there were few faces of colour on television and even then we knew Adrienne Clarkson was very special. Madame Jean is of a younger generation when we were exposed to many brilliant and talented people who didn't quite look like us.
Madame Jean is 59 and Adrienne Clarkson is 78 and they are still both brilliant and beautiful.
Madame Jean is indeed black and brilliant. Madame Jean is still making her mark in the world. Adrienne Clarkson is of Chinese ancestry and continues make a huge mark. We have every reason to be grateful to both of them.
I grew up with Adrienne Clarkson when there were few faces of colour on television and even then we knew Adrienne Clarkson was very special. Madame Jean is of a younger generation when we were exposed to many brilliant and talented people who didn't quite look like us.
Madame Jean is 59 and Adrienne Clarkson is 78 and they are still both brilliant and beautiful.
1
With an immigration system based on merit points, Canada is effectively cherry picking those who had the best opportunities and most money in their native countries .In other words, the country is importing people with "the best parents and best bank accounts."
A US immigration policy to establish a plutocracy that is ultimately self-defeating? "Ruth"less policies aren't smart. Duh! Short-sighted, stupid are the accurate descriptors. Instead, strike the necessary balance that ALSO accounts for vital contributions of hands-on service. Support admitting those who will harvest produce, lay concrete, drive, repair, carpent-wire-plumb-paint homes, cook, wash dishes, clean floors & bathrooms, child & elder care, and myriad other jobs that will not be filled when college grads are preferred.
2
Yes.
Our immigration policy should based on what's best for our country and not what's best for a future would-be immigrant.
Trump and all Republicans agree.
America First!
Our immigration policy should based on what's best for our country and not what's best for a future would-be immigrant.
Trump and all Republicans agree.
America First!
15
Canada continues to look better and better to me as a country in which I may want to live soon. We are so on the wrong track here in so many ways. These last five months have been brutal and I expect the rest of the year to be just as ugly. O Canada!
15
Canada has established a de facto rule that makes French bureaucracy look sane:
You can get a residency permit in Canada unless you have a job there. And, you can't get a job there unless you have a residency permit.
You can get a residency permit in Canada unless you have a job there. And, you can't get a job there unless you have a residency permit.
1
You may want to visit first and it depends where you wish to live. I have spent lots of time in America and liked most places that I have been. Comparing Canada and America is complex just like comparing California to Maine or New Brunswick to Toronto
1
While you are at it (BTW great article) would you please explain how Canada turned out so well and America has bombed? We both started out with English roots. And their climate is worse than ours. Was it slavery? The French influence? A parliamentary form of government? I really would like to know.
27
Great comment/question! I, too "would really like to know" as would millions of other Americans. Your mention of "A parliamentary form of government " is the same question I had just last night while watching the shenanigans of our Congress over health care ( world without end amen.)
But I do think the reason is indeed connected to slavery. Look at the founding fathers who made up the first congress, very wealthy men who exploited the poor was the norm, John Adams not withstanding.
But I do think the reason is indeed connected to slavery. Look at the founding fathers who made up the first congress, very wealthy men who exploited the poor was the norm, John Adams not withstanding.
9
A dogged separation of church and state makes a huge difference, as well as a commitment to the social contract, recognizing our responsibility to each other as human beings. Funny how this country, with its quiet and almost apologetic nationalism, recognizes the strength that comes from diversity and takes so much better care of its residents (aboriginal population being a notable exception), than their "Christian values" neighbor to the south.
6
"would you please explain how Canada turned out so well and America has bombed?"
Only the USA , of the world`s democracies, allows lobbies to control their legislatures. Eg. If lobbies were only as legal in the USA as in other democracies then the USA would have had single payer universal healthcare many years ago. eg Canada`s is 33 years young.
Only the USA , of the world`s democracies, allows lobbies to control their legislatures. Eg. If lobbies were only as legal in the USA as in other democracies then the USA would have had single payer universal healthcare many years ago. eg Canada`s is 33 years young.
4
So according to this author my great grandparents would not have made the cut since they were uneducated and unskilled Jews from what is now Ukraine who left during the Russian Revolution. Family reunification is perfectly acceptable to me seeing as most immigrants are fleeing extremely volatile and unstable nation's. I put morality before profit and not to mention unskilled non-professional immigrants often have kids that climb the economic ladder and become skilled professionals.
7
Republicans want the cheap labor for agriculture and food/hospitality services and Dems want the cheap unquestioning votes of immigrants. Nothing is gonna change anytime soon.
12
Interesting piece but it is factually wrong to say that "[l]ast year, Canada admitted more than 320,000 newcomers — the most on record." The link itself points out that it was the highest total since 1971. The record number of immigrants in a year actually occurred in 1912 with over 400,000 people arriving in a Canada that had just over 7 million people in total.
4
Such dishonesty, is the author intentionally obtuse, or just obtuse? Trump and most of us are not in any way opposed to LEGAL immigration. On the other hand we believe ILLEGAL immigration is out of hand and a danger to standards of living, as well as our democracy.
The US already has 325 million people, it is not unreasonable nor is it racist to limit that number, we don't have infinite resources to support unlimited ILLEGAL immigration.
The US already has 325 million people, it is not unreasonable nor is it racist to limit that number, we don't have infinite resources to support unlimited ILLEGAL immigration.
15
If you limit the population growth it simply ages and GDP, the Real American god, declines.
2
Americans are oddly suspicious of intellectual ability and education. Presidential candidates typically dumb down their language on the campaign trail.
"Give me a president I can have a beer with."
And Trump.
"Give me a president I can have a beer with."
And Trump.
5
"Canadians are a modest, unassuming lot, used to being overlooked and overshadowed. They won’t mind keeping his secret."
Why would Canadians want to broadcast their government's policy of strip-mining other countries of their intellectual capital? Trump, like pinko Canadians, is OK with other people carrying the cost. It makes him smart. One of our leading socialists years ago called it socialism for the rich. Nice, and naive start with the same letter. Keep your head up, is another Canadianism, eh?
Why would Canadians want to broadcast their government's policy of strip-mining other countries of their intellectual capital? Trump, like pinko Canadians, is OK with other people carrying the cost. It makes him smart. One of our leading socialists years ago called it socialism for the rich. Nice, and naive start with the same letter. Keep your head up, is another Canadianism, eh?
2
Young Mr. Justin Trudeau at 45 years old has more governing political nation state executive and legislative talent, smarts, wisdom and experience than Mr. Trump and his Cabinet and White House staff combined.
Canada has accepted over twice as many Syrian refugees as America. Steve Jobs biological father was a Syrian Arab Muslim American immigrant from Homs.
Turkey has taken 4 million Syrian refugees and Germany has taken about a million refugees. America would have to admit 4x those numbers to match the humble humane empathy of those two nations.
Because the American invasion and occupation of Iraq based upon lies about Iraqi WMD's and an Iraqi connection to 9/11 began this massive Mideast mess, America and Americans should be honor bound to accept not only the best and the brightest but the most desperate and needy families. America does not need any more Czech nor Slovenian female models.
Canada has accepted over twice as many Syrian refugees as America. Steve Jobs biological father was a Syrian Arab Muslim American immigrant from Homs.
Turkey has taken 4 million Syrian refugees and Germany has taken about a million refugees. America would have to admit 4x those numbers to match the humble humane empathy of those two nations.
Because the American invasion and occupation of Iraq based upon lies about Iraqi WMD's and an Iraqi connection to 9/11 began this massive Mideast mess, America and Americans should be honor bound to accept not only the best and the brightest but the most desperate and needy families. America does not need any more Czech nor Slovenian female models.
9
There obviously is a philosophical difference between 2 policies. Whether US should adopt what can be described as (sorry if a little harsh) 'we'll just take the best and not worry about others', I will not discuss.
If anyone in the white house is smart enough, they should recognize this is an approach which can in principle split Democrats and get something achieved, instead of repealing Obamacare, tax "reform" etc. But then again, it shouldn't be a surprise to anyone that all Republicans ever want to do is cutting taxes for the rich...
If anyone in the white house is smart enough, they should recognize this is an approach which can in principle split Democrats and get something achieved, instead of repealing Obamacare, tax "reform" etc. But then again, it shouldn't be a surprise to anyone that all Republicans ever want to do is cutting taxes for the rich...
1
Canada does worry about the rest - they have one of the most progressive immigration policies for refugees and people in need of protection in the world, as well as a transparent process for family reunification and an inland stream for those making humanitarian and compassionate applications. What Canada does well is balancing its humanitarian obligations with its economic realities. State pension plans, high quality public education and universal health care don't come cheap so bringing in work-ready immigrants is good for all Canadians, current and future, native-born and those yet to arrive.
6
Now tell me who can afford to buy a nice (not palatial, nice) home in Vancouver these days. Emigrants from Hong Kong and from mainland China have transformed the city and put it mostly out of reach of the children of those who were born there.
As in New York, foreign money looking for a safe place to park itself invests in real estate and jacks up the market.
Canadians aren't as happy about all this as you'd like us to think.
As in New York, foreign money looking for a safe place to park itself invests in real estate and jacks up the market.
Canadians aren't as happy about all this as you'd like us to think.
15
It isn't a human right to be able to afford a house in Vancouver (or Toronto). Try Calgary, another world class city, but half the cost.
1
I am Canadian and Tepperman's comments ring true. However, I am increasingly concerned for the true refugees of the world, who bring little to the table other than a pledge to do their best in the future. And I worry for the countries of origin of these "super immigrants". All of the strengths and advantages we gained in the west are losses to the countries of origin. Just as we continue to accept increasing number of skilled immigrants we need to increase our foreign aid by a considerable margin.
13
This article is as troubling as the recent SCOTUS agreement to review Trump's travel "ban". Let's hope the Associate Justices read this Opinion and in their exclusions to the ban include those refugees who pass the 2 year vetting process conducted by the IOM and our own Department of State. If this is not done, quid pro quo the US should increase funding to countries like Greece that are sheltering those refugees.
6
Please tell us why the American taxpayer should fund Greece's immigration efforts?
Since Greece is a member of the European Union, shouldn't the overwhelming majority of the support funds come from them? After all, the EU has a vested interest in the matter.
Since Greece is a member of the European Union, shouldn't the overwhelming majority of the support funds come from them? After all, the EU has a vested interest in the matter.
4
Hey, I thought it was Americans who had an accent :-)
Seriously though, it isn't always a bed of roses here in the Great White North. Often, resources and preferential treatment are given to immigrants, leaving Canadian-born graduates behind. (My son is 28, has a Masters from the best university in Canada, is one of the hardest working people I know and can't find a full time job - he is really trying).
There is a seething resentment building.
Seriously though, it isn't always a bed of roses here in the Great White North. Often, resources and preferential treatment are given to immigrants, leaving Canadian-born graduates behind. (My son is 28, has a Masters from the best university in Canada, is one of the hardest working people I know and can't find a full time job - he is really trying).
There is a seething resentment building.
23
I would love to have a single example of resources and "preferential treatment" being given to immigrants in Canada. If anything, exactly the opposite is true. If there is a "seething resentment building", it sounds to me like it is because of that hoary old throwback: blame the newcomers for every problem that you have because they are the easiest to scapegoat. There are economic problems in Canada and we can do a better job of redistributing wealth and doing what is necessary to provide good work for all. But don't blame those internal failings of the Canadian system on immigrants.
1
Thom Resney - no, it's not always a bed of roses in Canada. But can you really connect your son's employment woes to our immigration policy? Our economy is lagging in many ways, but not because of immigration. As a Canuck, I strongly encourage the "seething resentment" crowd, the Ford Nation crew, the wannabe Alt-Righters, to seek out the like-minded elsewhere. The last thing Canada needs now is the kind of pointless and harmful nativism that threatens much of the West and that only serves as a welcome cover for the .01% (i.e., the real problem) trying to complete their takeover of the world.
1
Canada made the decision to increase immigration to 0.6% of the population in 1986 (the highest sustained immigration in the world). The target has been reached in all but 2 of the last 30 years.
The decision to concentrate on independent immigration above family classes was made at the same time - with a bias towards accommodating future refugee programmes as part of the immigration objective (especially community sponsored refugees).
The sole factual flaw in the article was to state that Canada's recent immigration was the highest ever. Not so! Canada took in more than 300,000 immigrants in each of the 3 years immediately before WW I (when the total population was only in the 10 million range)!
BTW. the 1986 decision came after an analysis of how to finance the national pension plans (Old Age Security and Canada Pension Plan) when we could see costs spiralling to an "unacceptable" level by 2020 (i.e. about now!) as well as Canada's national health care costs. We felt young vibrant immigrant families could both expand the economy and provide a tax / contribution base to stabilize pension and medical care costs. So it has turned out - to the extend that the current government is considering further increasing the immigration targets.
The decision to concentrate on independent immigration above family classes was made at the same time - with a bias towards accommodating future refugee programmes as part of the immigration objective (especially community sponsored refugees).
The sole factual flaw in the article was to state that Canada's recent immigration was the highest ever. Not so! Canada took in more than 300,000 immigrants in each of the 3 years immediately before WW I (when the total population was only in the 10 million range)!
BTW. the 1986 decision came after an analysis of how to finance the national pension plans (Old Age Security and Canada Pension Plan) when we could see costs spiralling to an "unacceptable" level by 2020 (i.e. about now!) as well as Canada's national health care costs. We felt young vibrant immigrant families could both expand the economy and provide a tax / contribution base to stabilize pension and medical care costs. So it has turned out - to the extend that the current government is considering further increasing the immigration targets.
17
Sounds good but then I consider my mom's family -- two uneducated adults with three children none of whom spoke English and who arrived in the United States in 1950 owing money for their passage. Success followed thanks in large part to a Fortune 500 company that took a chance on a poor immigrant and gave him a job in the company mailroom with great benefits and stock grants (yes stock grants) while he went to English classes at night.
The family would have had zero points under the Canadian system.
The family would have had zero points under the Canadian system.
3
Times have changed. that family would not make it in contemporary America. Those jobs don't exist, and a Fortune 500 company would not take such a risk. It is hard to admit how limited our resources are. Granted the 0.1 percent has taken enormous resources out of circulation but that is a done deal.
1
Canada's system can be cruel and slow: The widowed 93 year old mother of a friend of ours - from Kenya - had to wait more than 5 years to get legal status to remain here in Ottawa with her daughter. During that time the elderly mother had to pay for all health expenses out of pocket and she lived in fear that she could be sent back to Kenya where she had not a single relative. Eventually the mother got her landed immigrant papers - after tens of thousands of dollars spent for health and legal expenses and much worry.
2
As an immigrant in high skilled category to both Canada and US I have come to realize how unnecessarily convoluted the US system of immigration is. With my US education and credentials it took me 8 years to get a green card while the Canadian PR took a third of the time and and a fraction of the cost. Here is the underlying difference, US with its skeletal social safety net does not care about the well being of its citizen, let alone immigrant population. Whereas Canada with its progressive social safety systems needs economically stable immigrants to keep it that way. US immigration system is utterly broken and wall will not fix any bit of it.
17
As a Canadian/American who has split his life between the two countries, I've seen both systems at work. It is hard to fault Canada for pursuing a merit based system despite the criticism of brain drain in these comments. I grew up with the children of these kind of educated immigrants, mostly from Hong Kong and Korea. Smart, hard working people that brought something new to my formerly white bread neighborhood.
For the US, I know many like me who came here via work visa or the lottery. I don't think it is anti-immigrant to be skeptical of family reunification being such a large segment of immigration. I'm an engineer and worked on a job with a crew of Salvadorian laborers. One of them got in on the lottery and he was able to bring immediate family and cousins in based on his status. They were all hard working and that's great, but it just seems bizarre that all these people came based purely on luck. Is it so wrong to want to implement some other criteria for such a large segment of US immigration?
For the US, I know many like me who came here via work visa or the lottery. I don't think it is anti-immigrant to be skeptical of family reunification being such a large segment of immigration. I'm an engineer and worked on a job with a crew of Salvadorian laborers. One of them got in on the lottery and he was able to bring immediate family and cousins in based on his status. They were all hard working and that's great, but it just seems bizarre that all these people came based purely on luck. Is it so wrong to want to implement some other criteria for such a large segment of US immigration?
13
A very narrow-minded perspective of both countries.
The problem with Canada is that they let poor countries invest their limited money in educating someone to fill critical local needs, then take him/her into Canada with no compensation ... so it's just another way the rich get richer and the poor get poorer.
The US immigration policy on the other hand has been a source of hope and inspiration through the ages - for example, many Irish benefited during the famine when it was the only hope. I wish more Americans could see their policies through the eyes of foreigners, and feel proud - and then try to stop President Trump from destroying them.
The problem with Canada is that they let poor countries invest their limited money in educating someone to fill critical local needs, then take him/her into Canada with no compensation ... so it's just another way the rich get richer and the poor get poorer.
The US immigration policy on the other hand has been a source of hope and inspiration through the ages - for example, many Irish benefited during the famine when it was the only hope. I wish more Americans could see their policies through the eyes of foreigners, and feel proud - and then try to stop President Trump from destroying them.
17
What's the point of comparing Canada's Immigration system today to that of the USA's 100 years ago?
2
I'm no Trump fan, but he's not trying to destroy our immigration system, he's trying to stop illegal immigration. There's a big difference between the two.
2
Denis, the Irish came in the 1840s, at the tail end of the canal era and the beginnings of the railroad era and vast industrialization of the United States. Demand for semi-skilled and unskilled labor was enormous, which enabled many, despite nativist sentiment against them, to get their foot in the door and learn one of the many new industrial trades, for many of which, no ready-made native workforce even existed. Insofar as I have heard from Canadians I know, that nation still protects industrial and even semi-skilled employment, likely because those are the workers most vulnerable to widespread displacement. I happen to live in an area where a great many South Asian knowledge workers are employed. Insofar as I know, they are not displacing any vast pool of American coders, but in the Bay Area where I used to live, one could spend weeks looking for a US born gardener, or bricklayer, or construction laborer without finding one. This is the class division at the heart of the Trumpista nativist movement, and frankly, though I didn't vote for the big monkey, it's hard not to see their point.
1
Nice apolitical article issue-based captures the facts perfectly. Thank you. More per capita immigration with greater satisfaction among native population.
6
America faces some different needs than Canada - one size may not fit all. For example, America needs migrant workers for its agricultural industry. It will be a test this summer to see if American citizens will fill in the slack this year since migrant workers' numbers will probably be down this year. If that doesn't work, this would be a good time to have a humane immigration policy to let farm workers travel/cross borders legally so they perform the tasks we need but have the life they want.
4
The US has a migrant agriculture worker program that Caesar Chavez fought years for. Mr. Chavez warned the US NOT to allow illegal aliens to take the migrants jobs. He stated that allowing illegal aliens to circumvent the LAW would destroy the program.
Illegal aliens take the agri-jobs long enough to get to a large sanctuary city where they can push out US citizens and collect benefits. LESS then 3% of the illegal aliens work in agriculture, most take US citizen jobs in construction, and service, lower wages with a deficient quality of service. The sanctuary city gets more federal funding and maintains it population count while US citizens move to less crime ridden places.
Illegal aliens take the agri-jobs long enough to get to a large sanctuary city where they can push out US citizens and collect benefits. LESS then 3% of the illegal aliens work in agriculture, most take US citizen jobs in construction, and service, lower wages with a deficient quality of service. The sanctuary city gets more federal funding and maintains it population count while US citizens move to less crime ridden places.
4
"If that doesn't work, this would be a good time to have a humane immigration policy to let farm workers travel/cross borders legally so they perform the tasks we need but have the life they want."-NA Bangerter
Can you actually have a nice slave economy dependent upon destroying the home economies of the immigrant slaves? America's history in Central and South America would suggest, not.
Can you actually have a nice slave economy dependent upon destroying the home economies of the immigrant slaves? America's history in Central and South America would suggest, not.
1
I too had hoped documented workers would be the norm, but if it is, why are farms in Wisconsin, Maine and California unable to harvest crops. The reality on the ground is crops are lying waste. So somewhere the current system is broken.
I do not advocate slave labor. I lived in Arizona for 12 years and many undocumented workers wished they could travel to see their families while working in the US to support them. Should they be paid more - definitely, but again, this is not the reality for many undocumented workers.
Our current economic system relies on undocumented workers - lets have a humane system which should also include fair wages.
I do not advocate slave labor. I lived in Arizona for 12 years and many undocumented workers wished they could travel to see their families while working in the US to support them. Should they be paid more - definitely, but again, this is not the reality for many undocumented workers.
Our current economic system relies on undocumented workers - lets have a humane system which should also include fair wages.
1
I will agree that some immigrants to the United States should be selected on the basis of "merit." On the other hand, I do not see why immigration should become like the college admissions rat race. Throughout its history, the U.S. has admitted millions of poor people, working people, landless farmers, and refugees--many of whom contributed to our country and proved to have "merit," too. We should ensure that the U.S. remains a land of opportunity for these people, and not simply look to admit engineers, computer programmers, and the like.
9
Unfortunatley, because many of our immigrants come from countries rampant with corruption in the educational system, many of them cannot practice their professions when they arrive in Canada. Many end up doing low paying work in the service industry and live in poverty (especially in Toronto which is VERY expensive and has the highest concentration of them). Their children, however have the benefit of a middle class cultural upbringing which can make them a pleasure to teach (the school I'm at is 99% "minority", almost all immigrants and the students are absolutely LOVELY to work with - so polite and co-operative, they literally open doors for us and greet us with the deepest respect. - I feel lucky to work with them). Their children have a decent shot at upward mobility because of this (outside of the insane cost of living here compared to the average salaries)
2
'Throughout its history, the U.S. has admitted millions of poor people, working people, landless farmers, and refugees--many of whom contributed to our country and proved to have "merit," too.'-Chris Rasmussen
Would it be fair to say that their primary merit was their eagerness to benefit from the indigenous genocide upon which America is founded?
Would it be fair to say that their primary merit was their eagerness to benefit from the indigenous genocide upon which America is founded?
It would make sense that a country with a social welfare states as robust as Canada's would have more barriers to entry than a country that believes "freedom" is a government in name only. If we had universal healthcare, well-funded public schools, as well as state programs for the needy, there might be an incentive to limit entry only to those who have something "exceptional" to contribute. As it stands, we refuse to meaningfully take care of our own citizens and residents despite our "exceptional" wealth, and last time I checked, there weren't any displaced coal miners or steel workers lining up for service industry positions filled by H2B visa holders. What would be the point of limiting immigration in those circumstances?
5
We have a safety net for the poor, its a patchwork of welfare, including medicaid, which is for medical purposes. Many of our schools in the worst performing districts spend over $15,000 per student. We have Social Security and medicare for retirees. One of most important freedoms is the 1st amendment, which allows people to spout off about subjects they obviously know nothing about without fear of government censure. You can't do that in Canada.
2
Yes, indeed, some people do spout off about thing of which they know naught. Freedom of speech in Canada is protected as a "fundamental freedom" by Section 2 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. We will have to agree to disagree about the robustness our social welfare state. Have a nice day.
2
There is a reason that the Statue of Liberty does not stand at the entrance of the St. Lawrence River. Americans, until recently, were proud of its declaration:
"Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"
This author does not confide in the reader the fact that Canada's "merit based" immigration policy is a "pay to play" policy. Canada essentially eliminates the "poor" and "huddled masses" by making a requirement for a "proof of funds." Please see their current policy and "prices" at this government website. http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/skilled/funds.asp
I find the Tory (Loyalist) version of North American immigration policy as a corrupted version of one the founding principles of the United States: EQUALITY. Above all else, I hope we Americans never put a price tag on becoming an American. Leave that to Canadians and "coyotes."
(N.B. The author of this essay has chosen to use percentages and not real numbers. It might be helpful to know that Canada took in 272,000 immigrants in 2015 compared to the United States' welcome to 1.38 million in the same year. Yes, Canada is smaller than California, but nevertheless, America welcomed 5X more immigrants without a "proof of funds.")
"Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"
This author does not confide in the reader the fact that Canada's "merit based" immigration policy is a "pay to play" policy. Canada essentially eliminates the "poor" and "huddled masses" by making a requirement for a "proof of funds." Please see their current policy and "prices" at this government website. http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/skilled/funds.asp
I find the Tory (Loyalist) version of North American immigration policy as a corrupted version of one the founding principles of the United States: EQUALITY. Above all else, I hope we Americans never put a price tag on becoming an American. Leave that to Canadians and "coyotes."
(N.B. The author of this essay has chosen to use percentages and not real numbers. It might be helpful to know that Canada took in 272,000 immigrants in 2015 compared to the United States' welcome to 1.38 million in the same year. Yes, Canada is smaller than California, but nevertheless, America welcomed 5X more immigrants without a "proof of funds.")
11
Canada has a population smaller than California's, is that what you mean?
1
Thank you for clarifying.
Yes.
Yes.
And the proof of funds is extremely low as the website clearly states...CAD12k for a single person. And it's not like Canada doesn't have a family based immigration policy as well, they do, but if you immigrate through Express Entry then yes, there is a proof of funds requirement, but it is kept so low that I would certainly not characterize it as a significant barrier, on the contrary, clearly Canada has great confidence in the future success of immigrants to make the funds requirement this low. In the US, on the contrary, you do have a real "pay to play" policy, the EB5 Green Card Program that requires an 'investment' of 500k to 1 million. Not to mention that even if you were to try to get a Green Card in the US through other means (of course way more difficult than in Canada), you most certainly would need an immigration lawyer for that which can easily cost you 12k....while the Canadian Express Entry program can be done without a lawyer since it is a completely efficient online system that only costs CAD500 and to top it of is processed within 6 months while the processing time for a Green Card in the US can take years....during which time your legal fees will compound.
1
I'm Canadian, and so is my husband, though we currently live in the US. (We both have multiple graduate degrees, and I was initially recruited for a job at Harvard.). Believe me, Canadians are anything but modest and unassuming. We like tooting our horns, and are very proud of our country. It's just that there are so few of us that no one can hear us over the din the Americans make next door! ;-)
20
Yes, a merit-based immigration policy benefits the country of entry, but why does no one ever discuss the effect on the country of exit? Does no one see a connection between dysfunctional states and brain drain? Also, there is an eternal tension between monoculture and multi-culture, the rooted ones versus the rootless. The multi-culturalists are learning their celebration of the wandering rootless has its own problems, such as the spread of a global economic system that rests upon principles of inevitable inequality, that is, merit-based.
3
Well its a better way to evaluate immigrants rather than based on race, ethnicity and religion.
5
And what might the "total rewrite of our immigration system into a merit-based system" look like under a Trump administration?
2
One need only look at Trump's Cabinet, presumably. I'm thinking here of the rather cloying loyalty embarrassment of recent memory. Smarmy, how I love you, how I love you, my dear old Smarmy...?
I read with exasperation such comments as the United States needs "a much higher population" and "plenty of room to put it." In what sort of natural environment do these people live? I enjoy contact with new immigrants as much as the next liberal, I support a few hundred thousand immigrants per year, and I certainly don't care what part of the world new immigrants come from. BUT.... does anyone drive cars and see our overtaxed road system? Does anyone lament the spoilage of the natural environment by tacky strip malls and urban sprawl? Just how many is too many? Just how many species do you want decimated by increased human population? Currently, we are accepting over a million LEGAL immigration per year. Just how many open, wild, windswept locations do you want to put a new large city in, EVERY SINGLE YEAR? How big is too big?Presumably, China and India are too big, right? Ever been to New Delhi or Beijing? So, if these two countries are too big, population-wise, how big do you want the United States to be? A billion? Well, no. How about 750 million? Well, no. Well then, again, how big?
A sane immigration policy would, yes, be meritocratic, and for the reasons stated in the article, would not be based on family unification. A sane policy would halve immigration numbers, protect the environment, and work to limit the INsane atomization of the individual at the behest of growth uber alles, a hideous, inhuman philosophy of human mechanization and environmental spoilage.
A sane immigration policy would, yes, be meritocratic, and for the reasons stated in the article, would not be based on family unification. A sane policy would halve immigration numbers, protect the environment, and work to limit the INsane atomization of the individual at the behest of growth uber alles, a hideous, inhuman philosophy of human mechanization and environmental spoilage.
26
thank you Tristan, absolutely right!
3
Your comment identifies some real problems and yet conflates them in a strange way. There is no doubt that high population growth hurts the environment and we should work to bring this down in the poorest countries substantively. At the same time, the US' population growth would be negative but for immigration, and there is no reason to not to keep it at least steady. The poor condition of roads etc is due to a different reason altogether: tax cuts over decades. Immigrants are not flowing into the suburbs, they are mostly concentrated around the cities. Solving all of these require informed political leadership, that much is true.
8
Tristan:
Some interesting thoughts, but I think you are missing a/the key point.
Public retirement funds (i.e. Social Security, state/local pension funds) are built on the assumption of population/economy growth, somewhat akin to a Ponzi scheme.
There are three basic ways to avoid these funds insolvency: raise taxes, decrease benefits, or grow the population/economy. The first two are politically difficult, so the easiest approach is to grow the population/economy.
Some interesting thoughts, but I think you are missing a/the key point.
Public retirement funds (i.e. Social Security, state/local pension funds) are built on the assumption of population/economy growth, somewhat akin to a Ponzi scheme.
There are three basic ways to avoid these funds insolvency: raise taxes, decrease benefits, or grow the population/economy. The first two are politically difficult, so the easiest approach is to grow the population/economy.
1
Family reunification has been a priority in U.S. immigration policy since the early 1920s. For almost 100 years this has meant that family ties, regardless of social status or wealth have built immigrant communities in a very continuous way. I don't think this is such a terrible foundation! Why not reform the truly dysfunctional parts of the immigration system -- interminable waits for visas, skill-based visa categories that are too narrow, "guest" and "exchange" visa programs that are abused -- before doing away with something that has actually worked well for the country?
8
Excellent illustration by Joao Fazenda of our weirdly-coiffed president looking towards Canada in J. Tepperman's "Smart Immigration Policy" column today. In this life we live, there are no Mulligans - no do-overs - notwithstanding our gallant former Arkansas Governor's First Lady, New York State Senator, two term First Lady of the United States, President Obama's Secretary of State and now, former Democratic candidate for the Presidency in 2016, Mrs. Hillary Clinton. We don't know if Hillary woulda, coulda been able to confect a smarter immigration policy for America, President Trump has been unable to work his ill-chosen government to his nefarious and malign ends. Wishing we had a President like Justin Trudeau. Wishing we had an open-arms immigrant policy like Canada. Alas, wishing won't make it so. If wishes were horses, beggars would ride.
3
So what this piece is saying is that many of our immigrants, who wind up working in fields, on roofs, as domestics, mowing lawns, picking fruits and vegetables, slaughtering meat, and cleaning toilets, you know, doing work that spoiled Americans don't want to do, wouldn't be allowed in.
17
They would be allowed in to the extent that we need them, and no more. Same for people who specialize in IT, science, and any other unmet need our country may have. Blinded to race or religion, stratified geographically to increase diversity. Right now our diversity needs are not being met by allowing in hoards of random people from Mexico and Central America.
6
It's exactly what it means. It is not open-arms; it's show me the money and/or your resume first.
Not mentioned her, however, is a very rational guest worker system, where foreign workers are admitted legally to do agricultural work on a seasonable basis.
Not mentioned her, however, is a very rational guest worker system, where foreign workers are admitted legally to do agricultural work on a seasonable basis.
5
We have millions of uneducated people who could do these jobs.
Right now, employers prefer illegal immigrants, because they will work hard for low wages. But if illegal immigrants were not available, employers would have to raise wages and improve working conditions in order to get the workers they need. While few American workers would work as a janitor for $8 an hour, a certain number would consider $12 -15. Guy who didn't graduate from high school, and are not very good at reading and writing, would definitely be interested.
Right now, employers prefer illegal immigrants, because they will work hard for low wages. But if illegal immigrants were not available, employers would have to raise wages and improve working conditions in order to get the workers they need. While few American workers would work as a janitor for $8 an hour, a certain number would consider $12 -15. Guy who didn't graduate from high school, and are not very good at reading and writing, would definitely be interested.
5
Totally agree! Immigration should be based on merits and the channel is H1B. Further, small business should have equal access to the program. In fact, abuses are mostly done by a few outsourcing firms.
BTW, the nonsense of political correctness should be stopped. It does not severe national interests. I learned the question "are you a communist party member" was asked during a recent citizenship interview from a colleague. Well, if political affiliation can be asked, then why not religion? To my knowledge, true communists are rare species facing extinctions. Not to mention that even "die-hard" communists want to send their kids and fortunate to this country.
I would argue immigration policy is the most critical policy to make because it has long lasting impacts. If President Trump truly want to make America great again and winning of course, bringing in selected people through H1B and stopping the uncontrolled influx from Southern border only make sense.
BTW, the nonsense of political correctness should be stopped. It does not severe national interests. I learned the question "are you a communist party member" was asked during a recent citizenship interview from a colleague. Well, if political affiliation can be asked, then why not religion? To my knowledge, true communists are rare species facing extinctions. Not to mention that even "die-hard" communists want to send their kids and fortunate to this country.
I would argue immigration policy is the most critical policy to make because it has long lasting impacts. If President Trump truly want to make America great again and winning of course, bringing in selected people through H1B and stopping the uncontrolled influx from Southern border only make sense.
Mr. Tepperman is wrong when he says, "family reunification sounds nice on an emotional level (who doesn't want to unit families?). But it's a lousy basis for government policy..." Canada does value family. Immensely. See:
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/evaluation/frp/index.asp "Family reunification is one of the three pillars of CIC’s immigration program. ... The FRP has been successful at reuniting families and there are considerable benefits to sponsor families resulting from this reunification.... Although it is not an economic immigration program, Family Class immigrants have positive economic outcomes... " etc. Perhaps a little more research (it took me under a minute) would be useful in the future. Canada succeeds because it values people. All people.
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/evaluation/frp/index.asp "Family reunification is one of the three pillars of CIC’s immigration program. ... The FRP has been successful at reuniting families and there are considerable benefits to sponsor families resulting from this reunification.... Although it is not an economic immigration program, Family Class immigrants have positive economic outcomes... " etc. Perhaps a little more research (it took me under a minute) would be useful in the future. Canada succeeds because it values people. All people.
10
'' With its liberal, tattooed prime minister, its universal health care, its enthusiastic embrace of pot and gay marriage and its generous refugee policies, Canada can sometimes seem downright Scandinavian. ''
Aye, we are sorry about that.
I would quibble that Canada is much more progressive on immigration policy than Scandinavia. ( Having lived extensively in both places ) There is considerable backlash especially to refugees. ( racism ) Canada has let in thousands more of them with much more open arms. Just a side note.
Canada's entire existence has been made up of multiculturalism and immigration more so than any country on earth. ( even more than the melting pot of America ) Still to this day there is a constant push and pull between French and English Canada ( the two bonded together at the beginning of the formed country )
Imagine crossing into Louisiana from any surrounding state and are greeted by a whole other series of senses, building and culture around you. Not only that, most of the people are speaking fluent french. That is the reality of passing from Ontario into Quebec.
W have out differences, ( and occasionally we will vote for a divorce ) but we love our neighbors. We celebrate them and their diversity. All peoples. ( including our first citizens which we are trying to work through with legislation and self governance. )
Imagine if America did the same with natives ? Can't can, you ...sigh...
Aye, we are sorry about that.
I would quibble that Canada is much more progressive on immigration policy than Scandinavia. ( Having lived extensively in both places ) There is considerable backlash especially to refugees. ( racism ) Canada has let in thousands more of them with much more open arms. Just a side note.
Canada's entire existence has been made up of multiculturalism and immigration more so than any country on earth. ( even more than the melting pot of America ) Still to this day there is a constant push and pull between French and English Canada ( the two bonded together at the beginning of the formed country )
Imagine crossing into Louisiana from any surrounding state and are greeted by a whole other series of senses, building and culture around you. Not only that, most of the people are speaking fluent french. That is the reality of passing from Ontario into Quebec.
W have out differences, ( and occasionally we will vote for a divorce ) but we love our neighbors. We celebrate them and their diversity. All peoples. ( including our first citizens which we are trying to work through with legislation and self governance. )
Imagine if America did the same with natives ? Can't can, you ...sigh...
10
You are conflating two different things, illegal vs. legal immigration. I've never met a person yet that was against legal immigration, though some would like to change the amount or how it is done. However, we have a serious problem with illegal immigration. I don't think you would be so blase' if you had the problem we have.
3
@Moira
I am sorry luv, but I was not conflating anything. It would seem that you wish to push your agenda about not wanting ''illegal immigration '' , While I appreciate the sentiment, I do not so for the way you have gone about exclaiming what my thoughts might be.
Having said that , ( and standing by my comment ) Any country is made up of the people that are in it. Whether they have a piece of paper saying they are bonafide is another conversation.
Have a great day.
I am sorry luv, but I was not conflating anything. It would seem that you wish to push your agenda about not wanting ''illegal immigration '' , While I appreciate the sentiment, I do not so for the way you have gone about exclaiming what my thoughts might be.
Having said that , ( and standing by my comment ) Any country is made up of the people that are in it. Whether they have a piece of paper saying they are bonafide is another conversation.
Have a great day.
2
It's pretty silly to think that Democrats would oppose this because they might lose voters. Basically, you're saying that with a policy like Canada's, Democrats would worry that they could never get a guy like Justin Trudeau elected. That doesn't make any sense, especially when it's Democrats who have been urging immigration reform.
Also, Democrats love educated voters - but would also want a policy to be tempered with compassion. This article doesn't mention it, but Canada accepts a lot more refugees that the US does, per capita.
Also, Democrats love educated voters - but would also want a policy to be tempered with compassion. This article doesn't mention it, but Canada accepts a lot more refugees that the US does, per capita.
15
Can we look at the rational why Canada doesn't "let just anyone in" and apply that to liberal progressive globalist Democratic Party ideals screamed about in the US, please?
8
Canada is emerging as a world leader as a result of our last election...voids are filled and falls from grace are rapid.
Why, decades of leadership evidently can be squandered in mere months!
Why, decades of leadership evidently can be squandered in mere months!
5
Don't they call this "brain drain"? The less developed countries are supposed to need their doctors, lawyers, engineers etc.
4
This makes a lot of sense, but Republicans will reject it because it won't guarantee them a supply of cheap labor, and Democrats will reject it because it won't guarantee them a supply of loyal (impoverished) voters.
6
In addition to being a good way to grow our country, immigration policies in Canada are driven by a sense of social justice as defined by the nebulous "what it means to be Canadian". Our culture is also defined by a compelling drive to be different from USians, an attitude that seems to have its roots in the War of 1812, and is sustained by our daily shock and awe at the political news radiating nightly from our TVs from south of our common border, and the presumption of so many that they can easily join our country. First you have to get over our wall, currently a mere metaphorical hedge. But hey, we welcome immigrants, eh?
6
How will this brain drain of "meritorious" into already prosperous countries affect the poorer sending country?
Where will we get our indentured servants to be our nannies and agricultural workers?
Where will we get our indentured servants to be our nannies and agricultural workers?
1
People come to Canada and then sneak into the U.S. Most hate the Canadian winter and Canada does not offer the employment opportunities the U.S. does. We can take legal immigrants. And until we get universal health care right, we do not need more immigrants. That is the last thing we need right now more masses of uneducated people.
4
Actually, they're trudging across the border INTO Canada, often in winter and at great personal peril.
3
Brain Drain? How does this immigration policy affect Canada's foreign policy and diplomacy?
Canada ruthlessly limits the "rights" of immigration law violators. This sharply reduces illegal immigration. Recently they took back a large monetary award from an auto accident victim who won a lawsuit after it was determined he was in the county illeglly. The encourage self sufficient people with needed skill sets in nursing, engineering and technology. They discourage single, uneducated, skill deficient older teenage gang members being passed off as "children".
8
Must everything be viewed through the prism of economics and contributions to GDP? What about the moral dimension, "give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free."
4
Great 100 years ago. Not so great in the midst of the robot revolution. We should stop all the wars that make all the refugees, but then all our defense contractor workers would also be out of jobs. We are the horses of the post auto era.
2
The extreme right is holding America hostage on this issue.
4
There are many lefties against open, and illegal, immigration. Ask anyone who wants to run a construction business with American employees how hard it is to compete against companies willing to hire illegal workers. Ask the IT guy who has to train his Indian replacement, who was hired on an H1B meant solely for those with skills not available in the US.
3
It would be lovely if the Immigration scene in the US. could be more like Canada,which is better able to control its borders thanks to a buffer zone on its southern border called the USA.
5
What ever happened to "Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses Yearning to breathe free" -- (Part of the poem on a plaque at the Statute of Liberty)
2
for those interested, here's the questionnaire that Canada uses to determine eligibility, outline criteria
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/eligibility.asp
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/eligibility.asp
2
So basically the immigrants to Canada are the small proportion from failed and failing states whose upper class families can send them to private schools where they acquire language skills and the education needed to thrive in Canada. Their family members who have already immigrated before them facilitate the path to Canada.
Those who do not qualify, the poor, the victims or terror and rape remain in the squalid UN refugee camps for generations.
Canada and the United States strip mines the most qualified who should be solving the nation's problems from those countries and takes their human and social capital without compensation to the losing country.
Sounds like a "win-lose" policy to me. Just another form of post colonial exploitation.
Vietnam Veteran
Those who do not qualify, the poor, the victims or terror and rape remain in the squalid UN refugee camps for generations.
Canada and the United States strip mines the most qualified who should be solving the nation's problems from those countries and takes their human and social capital without compensation to the losing country.
Sounds like a "win-lose" policy to me. Just another form of post colonial exploitation.
Vietnam Veteran
4
Um, yes. We can reject the best or accept the best. No one wants the worst. If a 50 year old blue collar white guy is unneeded in Robot America, why would we ever need someone who is not literate in their own language. Some languages don't even have written forms. Imagine this person writing software, one of the few jobs left until the robots can do it. Perhaps you imagine they (and the rest of us) will all be nurses in elder care.
Clueless. A refugee in a refugee camp without skills is not "the worst". They are a victim of state failure. If we take the doctors and engineers, what is left? Who then builds the country from the ground up? This policy consigns the failed states to failure by taking "the best". Is that simple enough for you to understand??????
1
I wonder what the Italian and Libyan coastguards, who rescued 5000 refugees in the Mediterranean last month, think about Canada's immigration policy?
The subtext to this article young Americans is that if you are a multi-lingual (French preferred), university educated, or accomplished individual who yearns to be free, apply to emigrate to Canada.
The freedom to which I refer is the freedom of sane gun control, freedom from fear of a medical disaster driven bankruptcy with single payer, freedom of choice for women, freedom from Neanderthal conservatives and so much more.
Also, depending upon where you live, your taxes would be in the same range as a higher tax state.
Oh, the weather.... you'll get used to it.
The freedom to which I refer is the freedom of sane gun control, freedom from fear of a medical disaster driven bankruptcy with single payer, freedom of choice for women, freedom from Neanderthal conservatives and so much more.
Also, depending upon where you live, your taxes would be in the same range as a higher tax state.
Oh, the weather.... you'll get used to it.
13
That's awesome if it you find it is working for you all - keep em!
What's missing here is mention of refugees. How do they figure in the Canadian policy? Of course we want the best and the brightest, but we cannot—must not—turn our backs on "... your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore."
So they just take all the smartest people from the least livable places on earth??
Super brain drain!
All that is going to do is make sure those places stay like that... totally unsustainable and just leads to further immigration
Super brain drain!
All that is going to do is make sure those places stay like that... totally unsustainable and just leads to further immigration
Canada has a long history of being very selective (at times discriminatory) when it comes to immigration. From 1885-1923, they charged Chinese immigrants a head tax and had many exclusionary laws discriminate against non-WASPs (leading to situations like the Komagata Maru and MS St. Louis, Jewish refugees fleeing Nazi Europe). It has turned out ok now, but the basis of Canada's immigration policy was a lot of racism, trial and error.
1
The US Immigration system is based on racism so it makes it harder to follow a country like Canada
3
Canada has the US as it's southern border, their illegal immigration situation is quite different than ours.
However a merit based policy makes good sense, once we have secured our own borders.
However a merit based policy makes good sense, once we have secured our own borders.
2
Canadian immigrants are referred to in their laws as..."occupant aliens trying to incorporate into Canadian society" We could learn a lot from that statement.
2
President Trump has liked Canadian Immigration Policy since around 1977
I have waited years for your article on Canada's successful immigration policies.
The inch- high politicians here in Sweden have caused us all great suffering with their idiotic, uninformed, and shifting policies on immigration. They should go to jail for the damage tbey have done to us all, and for the chance they missed to send a helpful message to men and women in the middle east.No appeal. Inexcusable. Ken Lockridge
The inch- high politicians here in Sweden have caused us all great suffering with their idiotic, uninformed, and shifting policies on immigration. They should go to jail for the damage tbey have done to us all, and for the chance they missed to send a helpful message to men and women in the middle east.No appeal. Inexcusable. Ken Lockridge
1
Yea - right. Trump wants immigration rules from Canada, and healthcare from Australia, and what else? Economic growth rate from China?
What a bunch of meaningless baloney and lies designed always to misinform and just create a desired effect. There is a concept in signal-processing of different colors of noise. Allow me to submit a new one: Orange noise.
What a bunch of meaningless baloney and lies designed always to misinform and just create a desired effect. There is a concept in signal-processing of different colors of noise. Allow me to submit a new one: Orange noise.
2
No aspiration to emulate anything in Canada.......they're Canada and we're us for a reason.
2
Canada balances a sensible, hard-nosed merit system for immigration with a humane refugee program. Many refugees are privately sponsored by groups of individuals. Six people in my town recently sponsored a mother and three kids from Syria. Furniture and supplies were donated by others in the community and within weeks everything needed was supplied. I myself purchased everything required for their bathroom (soaps, TP, toothpaste, towels, cleaning supplies etc,) and had the satisfaction of helping four other human beings while symbolically giving Trump and his supporters the middle finger. Sponsors help with finding homes, schools, doctors and jobs and provide financial support for a year.
A large percentage of the accounting, medical and engineering graduates from our universities are from first-generation immigrants. They get jobs and pay taxes.
The US can laugh at Canada and the Scandinavian countries all you want but everyone I know would rather live in a country where sickness or an accident doesn't mean financial catastrophe, where the middle class is disappearing, where a large percentage of the population is incarcerated, and where the much-lauded "freedom" is the freedom to be around people with guns, die without health insurance or go broke paying for it, and have a federal government, a Supreme Court and gerrymandered voting system bought by special interests and a few billionaire families.
A large percentage of the accounting, medical and engineering graduates from our universities are from first-generation immigrants. They get jobs and pay taxes.
The US can laugh at Canada and the Scandinavian countries all you want but everyone I know would rather live in a country where sickness or an accident doesn't mean financial catastrophe, where the middle class is disappearing, where a large percentage of the population is incarcerated, and where the much-lauded "freedom" is the freedom to be around people with guns, die without health insurance or go broke paying for it, and have a federal government, a Supreme Court and gerrymandered voting system bought by special interests and a few billionaire families.
559
Who is laughing at Canada and Scandinavia? They are the envy of most.
2
@ Patricia - Times Pick - Patricia I am with you and immediately on returning to Sweden after 30 days in my USA - New England and New York - I started filing comments on appropriate articles noting that I had a great time in the US but my experiences with transportation, roads, driving, and more taught me I am living in the right place at this time in my life, Sweden.
Here as you probably know the government makes large-scale expenditures supporting asylum seekers. The Canadian approach you describe is admirable but could never take care of the number of asylum seekers Sweden has taken in during the past 2 or 3 years.
Well deserving Times Pick Status!
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
Dual citizen US SE
Here as you probably know the government makes large-scale expenditures supporting asylum seekers. The Canadian approach you describe is admirable but could never take care of the number of asylum seekers Sweden has taken in during the past 2 or 3 years.
Well deserving Times Pick Status!
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
Dual citizen US SE
1
Patricia,
Agreed that Canada is a much better place to live, save for the weather,
than the United States.
However, the Free Market and Greed will bring Canada down to earth
and then what ?
Agreed that Canada is a much better place to live, save for the weather,
than the United States.
However, the Free Market and Greed will bring Canada down to earth
and then what ?
1
There is something troubling about this opinion piece. The underlying assumption is that poor recent immigrants to America are leeches. It also assumes that if recent immigrants to the US were more educated, then the current crop of Americans would love and accept them more. There is nothing in our history that says this would be true.
There is nothing magnanimous about Canada's immigration policy. They "cream" from the rest of the world. What they do best is to make those who do come to Canada feel a part of the Canadian mosaic. This is their success and the part of their identity that should be celebrated. (Moreover, the Canadian immigrant success may not be replicable if the other supports that keep people in the middle class are not offered - free health care and cheap colleges.)
I want to remind NYT readers that the great thing about America is that people have the opportunity to move ahead no matter where they start in life. I understand that this promise is currently and historically checkered. Your first-generation-immigrant-laborer may not stay that way for long.
We can do better than pick the one item Canada is "ruthlessly rational" about and claim that it will solve all of our problems.
There is nothing magnanimous about Canada's immigration policy. They "cream" from the rest of the world. What they do best is to make those who do come to Canada feel a part of the Canadian mosaic. This is their success and the part of their identity that should be celebrated. (Moreover, the Canadian immigrant success may not be replicable if the other supports that keep people in the middle class are not offered - free health care and cheap colleges.)
I want to remind NYT readers that the great thing about America is that people have the opportunity to move ahead no matter where they start in life. I understand that this promise is currently and historically checkered. Your first-generation-immigrant-laborer may not stay that way for long.
We can do better than pick the one item Canada is "ruthlessly rational" about and claim that it will solve all of our problems.
111
Although many Americans believe the statement that "the great thing about America is that people have the opportunity to move ahead no matter where they start in life", actual income mobility in the U.S. doesn't live up to this promise. According to a recent study, "[w]hile Americans like to think of their country as one where everyone has a relatively equal chance of success, the fact is that the U.S. has less equality of opportunity than most of its peers...This disconnect is brought into particular relief by placing the United States in an international context. In fact, children are much more likely as adults to end up in the same place on the income and status ladder as their parents in the United States than in most other countries." Source: Conference Board of Canada - Intergenerational Income Mobility.
3
How true, especially when you see the latent anger we see towards better educated STEM workers from Asia.
1
Isn't a big part of the problem in the US today exactly the fact that people don't move ahead of where they start? Social and economic mobility in the US today is much less than it is in Canada or any of the Western European states. You note this but you still put this forward as something that is "great about America." But how can it be "great" when it is not true? If someone really wants to move ahead in life, move to Canada or Europe. In the US, you will likely stay stuck exactly where you are.
4
This sounds good... but what of "give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses?" The US has taken in many illiterate, poor, oppressed people over the years - those other countries found not worthwhile. Their descendants, in many cases, have become businesspeople, doctors, engineers, lawyers, artists, teachers, and contributed much to our society.
I am not convinced that we ought to take account of any qualities that immigrants have other than the desire to come and contribute to our society.
I am not convinced that we ought to take account of any qualities that immigrants have other than the desire to come and contribute to our society.
114
Well said, Wesley. My family is living proof of what you have written. My grandparents were poor peasants from Istria (now part of Slovenia and Croatia). They went through living Hell during WWII, escaped Tito's subsequent purge, immigrated to the US with essentially no money and no education, just the will to survive and better their lives. Their son, my father, held two jobs, raised a family of four and graduated with an E.E. degree from City College (the public Harvard of the 60s), and his sons became a dentist and a doctor (now an associate professor at Columbia Medical Center). In short, it is impossible to predict the inherent "value" of an immigrant, nor predict the trajectory of their offspring. I thank God each and every day for the opportunities afforded by this country-- and the courage of my grandparents to gamble their entire future on the shores of America.
A slogan on a statute isn't a cohesive immigration policy.
3
Wesley
Well said ... it is true that the temporal stage of a person on knowledge, skills and abilities is a factor but so often it occurs because of the efforts of a village and likely that of the extended family. However, if that extended family is geographically distant - How is the situation sustainable for the both the person and the country?
Solid organizations institute initial and ongoing on boarding and mentoring programs and processes - it seems that both Canadian and US policies may fall short in that regard.
Well said ... it is true that the temporal stage of a person on knowledge, skills and abilities is a factor but so often it occurs because of the efforts of a village and likely that of the extended family. However, if that extended family is geographically distant - How is the situation sustainable for the both the person and the country?
Solid organizations institute initial and ongoing on boarding and mentoring programs and processes - it seems that both Canadian and US policies may fall short in that regard.
Our "immigration policies" are all over the map. We have the "don't ask don't tell" policy of allowing low skilled immigrants to work here. Our business owners could use our E-Verify program to ensure they all satisfy our citizenship requirements, but they won't because they need their cheap labor. Sometimes workers are seasonal and return to their home countries. Sometimes they stay. If they stay, they start families and the cycle of being hidden in plain sight for generations begins.
But that's our "undocumented" immigrant problem, which you may or may not have to the extent we do. You don't really talk about how you handle that.
Now, about our "documented" immigrants: Trump couldn't care less, no matter what nice words he uses in speeches someone else writes for him. The words "merit based" are a real button pusher here because they're the same two words conservatives use to bash all affirmative action programs. We're really big on "merit based" this and that, but don't take it seriously, it's just general conservative babble used to bad mouth all our social programs.
Let me make this clear: Trump campaigned on getting rid of illegal Mexicans by building a big, beautiful wall, and banning Muslims from entering the country. That's it. So thanks for your tips, but I think you'd better forget about teaching us how to do immigration and focus on Nafta, because he campaigned on that too, and it's not looking good for you.
But that's our "undocumented" immigrant problem, which you may or may not have to the extent we do. You don't really talk about how you handle that.
Now, about our "documented" immigrants: Trump couldn't care less, no matter what nice words he uses in speeches someone else writes for him. The words "merit based" are a real button pusher here because they're the same two words conservatives use to bash all affirmative action programs. We're really big on "merit based" this and that, but don't take it seriously, it's just general conservative babble used to bad mouth all our social programs.
Let me make this clear: Trump campaigned on getting rid of illegal Mexicans by building a big, beautiful wall, and banning Muslims from entering the country. That's it. So thanks for your tips, but I think you'd better forget about teaching us how to do immigration and focus on Nafta, because he campaigned on that too, and it's not looking good for you.
39
And it's looking terrible for all the US border states whose economies depend on Nafta and on Canada
4
Illegal Mexicans? You mean illegal aliens from Mexico. His promise to send them home where they belong is why he won. His other promise to demand vetting for any Muslim visiting or staying here is also why he won.
Why is that a bad thing?
Why is that a bad thing?
1
Let me make this clear: I'm fairly certain these "tips" were written by an American, so no thanks required.
Okay this sounds great except that as Americans we have to take responsibility for the people we bomb out of their homes so we can take the resources of their countries for our billionaire elite. So are we to take only the educated victims of our aggression? Millions of refugees are produced by our arming of ISIS and our bombing of those countries that are repulsed by our belligerence and have the nerve to say so.
America is not Canada and though Canada often gets caught up in our violent treatment of the world it does not have the moral baggage of the USA. Our penance is to take all the huddled masses because we produce them in great numbers all over the world while raping them of all their resources that could have brought prosperity to them in their own lands. No Canada you keep taking the best and brightest. We must take the remnants of our selfish savagery.
America is not Canada and though Canada often gets caught up in our violent treatment of the world it does not have the moral baggage of the USA. Our penance is to take all the huddled masses because we produce them in great numbers all over the world while raping them of all their resources that could have brought prosperity to them in their own lands. No Canada you keep taking the best and brightest. We must take the remnants of our selfish savagery.
281
no we must not patty...if you want to take them into your house without any vetting, ect, fine...just dont impose them on everyone else...
2
In addition to immigrants, Canada takes in refugees. Last year it was Syrian refugees (50,000) which would be the equivalent of 500,000 refugees to the U.S.
One of the successes has been 'community based sponsorship for refugees' where government helps, but local communities step up to sponsor and welcome refugees.
One of the successes has been 'community based sponsorship for refugees' where government helps, but local communities step up to sponsor and welcome refugees.
1
Patty Ann B, what resources are we taking from other countries "for our billionaire elites?" For most of the past decade, Muslim "migrants" are pouring into Europe because of warring Muslim factions, not because of American "bombing." That's nice you've received a NYTImes "pick," but you and the NYTimes are naive at best.
2
No doubt the average Canadian immigrant performance is moved up by the large number of Chinese seeking a refuge against the the regime. Starting with the Hong Kong takeover and continuing with entitled kids of the nouveau riche, Canada has courted the well off who can easily afford an investment or student visa and establish a safe place to go in case of a clampdown or spend in ostentatious way that is dangerous at home.
Its a service similar to the money laundering central park condo towers.
Its a service similar to the money laundering central park condo towers.
6
Dual US/Canadian citizen....and mighty pleased for that, because while I was raised here, was educated here, fought for this nation in the 60's, raised my children, here and live here I am decidedly NOT pleased with the direction this nation is moving in with its fear-based and mean-spirited approach to virtually every important issue it faces. So I go back to Canada often simply to get away from the stresses here.
9
Immigration should be a benefit to the host society and not a favor to those who emigrate. They can reunite their families elsewhere.
12
This comparison with Canada is all fine and dandy, but it fails to take into consideration that the single largest employment sector of the foreign born in the United States is agriculture and food processing. In a direct comparison with Canada's economy, this sector is much larger in the U.S. yet it doesn't demand highly educated workers. Immigration reformers who argue that the U.S. should only take in the highly educated need to open both eyes to reality, not just one.
15
But if we improved our immigration policy, how would people like Trump get elected?
13
I'm educated as are my friends. We voted for President Trump and would again over any Clinton.
3
Anyone from Concord isn't educated, per se. Definitely entitled, but not educated. I guess I understand how you could be so mesmerized by a flimflam man a first time. Someone who could give lessons to 'The Music Man'. But you just said 'again'. That's on you. You people will be held to account. This willful ignorance does not come without consequences, no matter how entitled you claim to be.
2
So much for the tired, poor, huddled masses yearning to be free. In a merit system my illiterate grandparents would not be admitted now- yet their children and grandchildren (except for one slacker cousin) have all contributed greatly to our economy and culture.
I know that 2017 is not like 1917 but let's leave the golden door at least ajar for those who come here with no education, no skills but great hope and ambition.
I know that 2017 is not like 1917 but let's leave the golden door at least ajar for those who come here with no education, no skills but great hope and ambition.
19
to Dee: The Syrian refugees have the same lack of education and hope as your grandparents. They are welcome.
To the writer of this great op-ed, thank you. What a nice Birthday gift, for Canada; as a Canadian I loved it and our country!
To the writer of this great op-ed, thank you. What a nice Birthday gift, for Canada; as a Canadian I loved it and our country!
7
Merit isn't just education and employment qualifications, it's trackability, lack of legal problems, age (potential to have kids) verbal language skills, potential to benefit from education, potential to benefit from work training, connection to an existing community or other family who may have the possibility of sponsoring those who couldn't come otherwise. There is a points system rubric used, not a yes-or-no checklist. The refugee program is a separate system which employs its own criteria.
Don't forget, too, that coming to Canada with that prized and favored degree doesn't mean instant success. Many foreign-issued credentials are not transferable here, and immigrants must retrain and recertify, if they can get into the requisite programs. Plenty of cardiologists, engineers and architects driving cabs and working in restaurants and admin. There's also plenty of overt racism in many places, especially egregious in QC, so even the "ideal" immigrants, the highly educated, the multilingual, still face pushback and discrimination. It's not upward mobility for everyone who comes here, and may in fact be a downgrade for the most desirable applicants.
In the end, more modestly schooled or experienced newcomers may in fact have a more satisfying and successful experience and produce more impressive integration results.
Don't forget, too, that coming to Canada with that prized and favored degree doesn't mean instant success. Many foreign-issued credentials are not transferable here, and immigrants must retrain and recertify, if they can get into the requisite programs. Plenty of cardiologists, engineers and architects driving cabs and working in restaurants and admin. There's also plenty of overt racism in many places, especially egregious in QC, so even the "ideal" immigrants, the highly educated, the multilingual, still face pushback and discrimination. It's not upward mobility for everyone who comes here, and may in fact be a downgrade for the most desirable applicants.
In the end, more modestly schooled or experienced newcomers may in fact have a more satisfying and successful experience and produce more impressive integration results.
2
A hundred years ago almost no American graduated from high school. Today. less than half of all illegals have even a high school diploma while most Americans have one. Let the huddled masses stay home and fix up their own home nations. It's not 1917 anymore. We have over three hundred million people. The last thing we need are people with no education or skills.
1
to Lawrence L>
The article states that "Last year, Canada admitted more than 320,000 newcomers". Mr L writes that "In Canada, about 26,000 refugees have entered each year in the past 10 years". Larry clearly doesn't like to read the articles he criticizes.
Canada is one of the two largest countries (based on number of acres of land) in the world, but very sparsely populated. It would be illogical for them not to want much more new blood. We are the third largest country (by area) in the world, but we have a very small population, compared to our landsize.
We do need to be extremely careful, as always, about the people we invite into our country, but we do need a much larger population than we have now, and we have lots of under populated towns and cities all over the north, south, east and west.
On a personal level, I started teaching in the late sixties and will be retiring this coming fall. In 1973 I was running a school for recent immigrants from China. We had almost 500 students. Now I am also teaching Chinese immigrants and have met very, very few who are trying to cheat the system, although I've met many many, many who beg me to find more hours in the day to help them become more fluent in English.
The article states that "Last year, Canada admitted more than 320,000 newcomers". Mr L writes that "In Canada, about 26,000 refugees have entered each year in the past 10 years". Larry clearly doesn't like to read the articles he criticizes.
Canada is one of the two largest countries (based on number of acres of land) in the world, but very sparsely populated. It would be illogical for them not to want much more new blood. We are the third largest country (by area) in the world, but we have a very small population, compared to our landsize.
We do need to be extremely careful, as always, about the people we invite into our country, but we do need a much larger population than we have now, and we have lots of under populated towns and cities all over the north, south, east and west.
On a personal level, I started teaching in the late sixties and will be retiring this coming fall. In 1973 I was running a school for recent immigrants from China. We had almost 500 students. Now I am also teaching Chinese immigrants and have met very, very few who are trying to cheat the system, although I've met many many, many who beg me to find more hours in the day to help them become more fluent in English.
6
When a country allows only successful educated immigration these immigrants and their very bright children will overwhelm the middle class.
They will compete against present day residents but mostly their children for education, jobs, housing. Life will become more stressful and people unhappy.
They will compete against present day residents but mostly their children for education, jobs, housing. Life will become more stressful and people unhappy.
4
Their children will be Canadians. They will bring more prosperity to all of Canada. Only a country that favors a particular ethnic or racial group (as th U.S. seems to do) would have a problem with this.
2
I remember when Americans didn't fear competition. Let our kids compete. It will make them stronger and smarter
1
Policy wonks seem NOT to take into consideration the lives of the very real people on the ground.
Neighborhoods will change and original residents will become strangers, isolated, friendless, ostracized, threatened, minimized, irrelevant in the neighborhoods that they lived their lives before immigrant invasion, whatever the demography.
Grand policy decisions have consequences, for example, Robert Moses, physically destroyed the lives, the neighborhoods, the jobs of millions, NYC has not been the same since.
Neighborhoods will change and original residents will become strangers, isolated, friendless, ostracized, threatened, minimized, irrelevant in the neighborhoods that they lived their lives before immigrant invasion, whatever the demography.
Grand policy decisions have consequences, for example, Robert Moses, physically destroyed the lives, the neighborhoods, the jobs of millions, NYC has not been the same since.
1
Describing Canada's sensible health care and other policies as "effete" or "downright Scandinavian". As the US continues down spiral, many of these so-called effete policies are moving other countries up.
No these places are far from perfect. But they at least provide the basics of what folks (even here) would like: affordable health care and child care, economic supports when needed, reasonable immigration policies.... In a few words -- hope and a sense of societal and economic security so lacking here.
When I lived overseas (in counties with policies similar to these) I was often asked "What is the USA's contract with her people?" My answer: "Easy - you're on your own". It was almost impossible for people to comprehend.
No society is perfect. But the USA could do better.
No these places are far from perfect. But they at least provide the basics of what folks (even here) would like: affordable health care and child care, economic supports when needed, reasonable immigration policies.... In a few words -- hope and a sense of societal and economic security so lacking here.
When I lived overseas (in counties with policies similar to these) I was often asked "What is the USA's contract with her people?" My answer: "Easy - you're on your own". It was almost impossible for people to comprehend.
No society is perfect. But the USA could do better.
24
As a Canadian immigrant to America I agree that it is a oft neglected point how different the immigration policies of the two nations are. Canada is lauded for it's immigration but it is highly selective and structured so it's social systems can absorb the influx, grow it's economy and bring in the skilled workers it specifically needs. It is designed in the narrow Canadian interest.
America's antiquated immigration system is simply broken and out of control with millions of illegal immigrants in the country. The influx is straining social systems to a breaking point. A Canadian immigrant will within a few years find their footing and start to prosper economically. Yet in America the working class as a whole is under siege and struggling, what opportunity is there for the immigrant?
Another neglected point of illegal immigration is vaccinations and public health. One of my more memorable moments in my immigration process was being asked for paperwork on my vaccinations in Canada. I had no evidence of my lifetime of personal vaccinations. The Doctor promptly gave me about a dozen needles of vaccinations for everything you could imagine.
Has it occurred to anyone that having 10-14 million people potentially unvaccinated people in the country may be a public health risk?
As a dual citizen and an immigrant myself, I am a supporter of immigration reform. To narrow immigration in the interest of the nation is what Canada does and what America should do as well.
America's antiquated immigration system is simply broken and out of control with millions of illegal immigrants in the country. The influx is straining social systems to a breaking point. A Canadian immigrant will within a few years find their footing and start to prosper economically. Yet in America the working class as a whole is under siege and struggling, what opportunity is there for the immigrant?
Another neglected point of illegal immigration is vaccinations and public health. One of my more memorable moments in my immigration process was being asked for paperwork on my vaccinations in Canada. I had no evidence of my lifetime of personal vaccinations. The Doctor promptly gave me about a dozen needles of vaccinations for everything you could imagine.
Has it occurred to anyone that having 10-14 million people potentially unvaccinated people in the country may be a public health risk?
As a dual citizen and an immigrant myself, I am a supporter of immigration reform. To narrow immigration in the interest of the nation is what Canada does and what America should do as well.
21
Many from South America and China come with tuberculosis and remain untreated for long periods of time until one of the kids is infected.
2
I too am a Canadian who now lives in the US. when my children crossed the border with in 1983 they had had far more vaccinations in Canada than the local pediatrician in Mass. saw in his daily practice. Not sure why you would not have been able to get records for yours. It is not just immigrants in the US who are unvaccinated. It is a matter of choice in many parts of the country and many home grown parents opt out of vaccinating their children - to the detriment of the general public.
3
While I am glad Canada is enjoying so much success, I believe you might have a hard sell in America. Not because of the whole Democrat/Republican issue that some here are already trying to make it.
America has, as her base, a sense that we are on the side of the poor, the oppressed, the humble folks that no other country wants. We take pride in this. We want to be seen as the kindergarten nation, a beacon of hope, a Christian nation practicing Christian charity. Spoken or not, this is one of the main pillars for America. I do not believe the home of the brave will become the fear based mean that other countries have, current evidence not with-standing.
America has, as her base, a sense that we are on the side of the poor, the oppressed, the humble folks that no other country wants. We take pride in this. We want to be seen as the kindergarten nation, a beacon of hope, a Christian nation practicing Christian charity. Spoken or not, this is one of the main pillars for America. I do not believe the home of the brave will become the fear based mean that other countries have, current evidence not with-standing.
1
Many Americans think in terms of the low cost services those poor people provide; a hold over from slavery and the exploitation of others mentality.
3
This is not quite complete. Canada too has a family reunification programme and has a large refugee programme--arounf 40,000 Syrians in a little over a year and almost as many planned for this year. So, not quite as 'ruthless' as claimed.
24
Our country has plenty of room and a definite economic need for the Advantage immigrants bring. How about a hybrid proposal:
1- unrestricted entry based upon merit.
2- restricted entry (for a season) if you are willing to relocate to areas that could use the population.
Otherwise, if you gain a green card on merit you can relocate anywhere, but if not you must locate in some place like Detroit that could use the energy of immigrants. This would be done on an unrestricted basis except requiring you have a marketable job skill and can speak the common language.
Finally, I would like to see a Schengen Area agreement between the US and Canada. Our nations need no fence between us and anyone legally admitted to one should be able to move to the other as in the EU.
1- unrestricted entry based upon merit.
2- restricted entry (for a season) if you are willing to relocate to areas that could use the population.
Otherwise, if you gain a green card on merit you can relocate anywhere, but if not you must locate in some place like Detroit that could use the energy of immigrants. This would be done on an unrestricted basis except requiring you have a marketable job skill and can speak the common language.
Finally, I would like to see a Schengen Area agreement between the US and Canada. Our nations need no fence between us and anyone legally admitted to one should be able to move to the other as in the EU.
8
The USA needs some mix of the two approaches.
We cannot turn our backs on what the Statue of Liberty represents: the humanitarian needs of many to become refugees in our land. ( There is no reason we cannot tie in a requirement that relatives, faith groups or communities agree to support and aid most of the refugees admitted for one year. )
But we also have a desperate need for more of the educated. The well trained physicians from Pakistan and parts of Middle East and even Africa already are critical for filling positions in medically underserved portions of our nation. Requiring such refugees to stay in such regions for five years would do much to help ourselves while helping our own nation.
We cannot turn our backs on what the Statue of Liberty represents: the humanitarian needs of many to become refugees in our land. ( There is no reason we cannot tie in a requirement that relatives, faith groups or communities agree to support and aid most of the refugees admitted for one year. )
But we also have a desperate need for more of the educated. The well trained physicians from Pakistan and parts of Middle East and even Africa already are critical for filling positions in medically underserved portions of our nation. Requiring such refugees to stay in such regions for five years would do much to help ourselves while helping our own nation.
6
Why don't we just educated our people, why don't we make college affordable to all. Why is medical school so expensive that the debt students come out of college with is so high they have to specialize in order to service the debt. We would have more general practitioners if college was free and if we had requirement that they had to fulfil a two year community service in areas that desperately needed doctors.
5
Even Africa?
There is a good medical school in Nigeria. That nation needs its physicians, but some of the Christian physicians are being targeted by some of the Nigerian terrorists. Thus, the desire of some to relocate to USA and practice medicine here. In some cases, they have to repeat a residency in USA before allowed medical license. Licensing occurs State by state in requirements, so I don't know how many states make them jump through that hoop. The Nigerians who finished their training don't have to repeat post-medical school residency in USA. (Obviously there is confidence in the basic years of medical school, but often not in the Nigerian residency program standards.)
The one point not addressed is Trump's idea of merit, i.e white and Christian v. "other"
4
This is disingenuous. That said, we need diversity of immigration in this country, which does not include large numbers of undocumented immigrants from one part of the world: Mexico and Central America.
7
Rich, did you see a picture of Trump embracing Modi who is neither white nor Christian? Why not look away from your faux Trump for a moment, a creation of the MSM, and look to see what Trump DOES?
5
Most illegals are Latinos and therefore both white and Christian. Try again.
2
While I support Canada's immigration policy and find multiculturalism a positive experience on balance, it is not perfect. Some new Canadians in my community cannot literally speak either of our official languages. However they are for the most part solid citizens from what I can see (own houses etc) but how did they get into Canada without speaking our language? Also some ethnic groups openly self-segregate and boast of their access to their own newspapers, radio/TV, restaurants, etc. One often hears that newcomers will integrate after the first generation or so but I wonder. There is also a running debate about whether new Canadians should show support for our basic values (eg men and women are fully equal in every respect) which is of course a very controversial area itself. Contrary to this, our ultra-liberal PM has said there is no such as a core Canadian identity which I strongly disagree with. So Canada's immigration system is not perfect by a long shot but still very effective overall. And most importantly I enjoy the diversity and zest that new Canadians bring to our society. My father's own ancestors left America to come to New Brunswick in the US Revolutionary War as so were political refugees themselves, and immigration worked out very well for them.
29
why is any of the immigrant behavior you mention problematic?
2
Canadians have more respect for education in all areas not just in admitting immigrants. Perhaps if the US had a greater respect for meritocracy the current society would be in better shape and the industries of the 21st century would be accepted as better than those of the 19th century - i.e. solar and wind power vs. coal! Further , it is unlikely the president would have risen to the top job if US society valued education and intellectual skills in their leaders. There are many occasions when the president appears to be functionally illiterate. His access to wealth and power was not based on merit but on rich parents! Canada has been held in high regard around the world for many decades and this week the country celebrates 150 years as a great country - Happy Birthday Canada! Keep up the good work as a great democracy.
32
I consider Canada a second home, and I admire it on many levels. But the writer understands very little about what actually happens to many of the immigrants there whom this points system has favored. The country often refuses to recognize their professional qualifications, consigning well educated people to menial work. And employers regularly use a lack of "Canadian experience" to justify not hiring immigrants. It all makes for a tough life.
8
I agree. My wife moved here 2 years ago (we met in Central America and got married soon after). While she studied at Georgetown, Chile, Germany, there was not much recognition here and had to work sales jobs at Banana Republic and Nordstrom in Toronto. However her persistence worked out as those 2 companies gave her ''Canadian experience'' and started a well paying job 2 years after arriving here. Immigrants who uproot their lives to come to Canada definitely have the perseverance to overcome this reality. My wife has done it and more recently, so have her friends who have also just arrived in Canada.
3
And this is different from the US?
2
This is not a partisan issue. It is a money issue.
Republicans and corporate Dems would never support this.
Big Agriculture relies on cheap, scared labor to exploit.
Big Agriculture owns legislators in the Midwest and Northern California.
Wake up, people. Canada puts its people first, not its corporations.
When our government represents people again, it will take meaningful action.
Republicans and corporate Dems would never support this.
Big Agriculture relies on cheap, scared labor to exploit.
Big Agriculture owns legislators in the Midwest and Northern California.
Wake up, people. Canada puts its people first, not its corporations.
When our government represents people again, it will take meaningful action.
82
You overlook the silly dictum of the US Supreme Court that corporations are people.
2
"Wake up, people. Canada puts its people first, not its corporations."
Only the USA allows Lobbies to control their Legislature (Congress & WH). If the USA did not have lobbies in DC they would of had a universal , single payer healthcare system many years ago (Canada` is 33 years young & considered a precious jewel by Canadians).
FYI, when the 45,000 Syrian REFUGEES landed in Canada over the last 2 years they were instantly enrolled in Canada`s single payer universal healthcare system. Many needed immediate healthcare attention as much as the other services they obtained (language , homes , money, culture, etc.) that were in part provided by the individual sponsors of the refugee families.
Only the USA allows Lobbies to control their Legislature (Congress & WH). If the USA did not have lobbies in DC they would of had a universal , single payer healthcare system many years ago (Canada` is 33 years young & considered a precious jewel by Canadians).
FYI, when the 45,000 Syrian REFUGEES landed in Canada over the last 2 years they were instantly enrolled in Canada`s single payer universal healthcare system. Many needed immediate healthcare attention as much as the other services they obtained (language , homes , money, culture, etc.) that were in part provided by the individual sponsors of the refugee families.
4
Viewed from Canada this enthusiastic article seems a little remote from ordinary experience. Canadians are not reproducing themselves, marriage is less popular and children are expensive. So, we need immigrants to pay the taxes and maintain our welfare systems; in particular we need immigrants who are immediately able to go to work and become positive financial contributors. But whereas after WW2 most immigrants were of European descent ( I was one of them) and therefore "invisible" now most immigrants are from south of the equator and their visibility lead recently to a woman in a Toronto medical clinic notoriously proclaiming, "I want a white doctor."
It's not all wine and roses!
It's not all wine and roses!
7
And most Canadians were rightfully horrified by that woman's ridiculous request.
4
The U.S. immigration policy is one that has been devised to keep the majority of our immigrants both poor and uneducated. That way, they will work for less, thus keeping everyone's salaries in check, and they will also be less likely to organize and fight to change their circumstances out of fear.
As usual, the U.S. policy favors the rich. It's all about cheap labor and keeping the profits at the top. This is unlikely to change once we factor in the campaign donations that pour into politicians' pockets every election cycle to make sure that this modern-day system of indentured servitude is maintained.
As usual, the U.S. policy favors the rich. It's all about cheap labor and keeping the profits at the top. This is unlikely to change once we factor in the campaign donations that pour into politicians' pockets every election cycle to make sure that this modern-day system of indentured servitude is maintained.
23
Immigration based on merit because that's what's best for the country?
The Democrats would never go for that. Improving the nation is low on their priority list.
The Democrats would never go for that. Improving the nation is low on their priority list.
16
Merit based immigration sounds great, but it would never work in the US. Oh, Republicans would support it but the last thing Democrats want is an immigration policy that favors well-educated applicants less likely to become dependent on government programs. Why? Simple; those immigrants might vote Republican and the overriding immigration goal for Democrats is to admit only those likely to become Democratic voters.
18
You might be surprised there. While many immigrants might be moderately conservative economically; most of the highly educated are socially liberal; and find no representation in the current GOP.
8
Don't you realize that 75% of today's GOP voters either can't or don't read? And the GOP relies on these voters to maintain their majorities.
2
"...the last thing Democrats want is an immigration policy that favors well-educated applicants less likely to become dependent on government programs......the overriding immigration goal for Democrats is to admit only those likely to become Democratic voters."
What a short-sighted, unhelpful generality.
Nobody wants government programs supporting a working person - taxpayers are especially interested in a lean budget, and yes, Democrats are taxpayers.
Self-sufficient immigrants are great for the budget.
An ethical economy thriving on genuine, useful production with adequate compensation would eliminate a lot of government regulation and governmental entitlements.
But we don't have that. We have a mosh pit. And there's a few shards of that pesky "we the people" ethic floating around, stubbornly poking our better nature and keeping us from kicking unfortunate folks into the garbage. I hope we can keep those shards around. And I hope that ethical pillar won't continue to be the public talking point that divides these two political parties.
What a short-sighted, unhelpful generality.
Nobody wants government programs supporting a working person - taxpayers are especially interested in a lean budget, and yes, Democrats are taxpayers.
Self-sufficient immigrants are great for the budget.
An ethical economy thriving on genuine, useful production with adequate compensation would eliminate a lot of government regulation and governmental entitlements.
But we don't have that. We have a mosh pit. And there's a few shards of that pesky "we the people" ethic floating around, stubbornly poking our better nature and keeping us from kicking unfortunate folks into the garbage. I hope we can keep those shards around. And I hope that ethical pillar won't continue to be the public talking point that divides these two political parties.
1
I'm a fan of Canada's immigration policies but in all fairness, like much else in Canada, it is made possible by sharing a lone border with the US. No offense to Mexico, but sharing a border with it creates problems for the US that Canada doesn't share. It is quite difficult to sneak into Canada, while in the US we have an undocumented (mostly Latin American) population 40% the size of Canada's entire population. Thus, the two immigrant populations' profiles look quite different.
129
"In all fairness" the population of Canada is slightly smaller than the population of California - around 40 million people.
Even in the worst fever dreams of anti-immigrant Republicans, nobody claims an undocumented population in the U.S. of more than about 11 million.
Your estimate of over 15 million undocumented in the U.S. is radical. Where are you getting your claims?
Even in the worst fever dreams of anti-immigrant Republicans, nobody claims an undocumented population in the U.S. of more than about 11 million.
Your estimate of over 15 million undocumented in the U.S. is radical. Where are you getting your claims?
2
For many years I have commuted regularly between my Canadian home and my US employment which covers most of the States. As a salesman I'm always alert to my surroundings and I particularly enjoy observing my fellow travellers as i fly into Toronto or Montreal. The complexion of Canada has been changing before my very eyes in recent decades and I have never been prouder of my country. We still line up at ticket counters so peaceably and still are polite to each other regardess of skin colour Do we have problems? Absolutely. But, compared to our great neighbour, we're looking good. Real good. I love my many American friends and wish them bon chance but in this chaotic world, Canada is an oasis. Well, maybe ice flow's a better analogy You get my point.
116
Great idea.
Yet the basis for granting privileged access is effective border security to prevent non-privileged access. Hence the need for physical border security and prevention of visa overstays.
Laws that are not enforced are meaningless.
Yet the basis for granting privileged access is effective border security to prevent non-privileged access. Hence the need for physical border security and prevention of visa overstays.
Laws that are not enforced are meaningless.
12
Not really, while there is demand there will be methods to circumvent the wall. Temporary programs for farm workers, where everyone is legal would be more effective. That could be part of said merit-bases immigration system.
3
I have family in Canada, I spend a lot of time in both Ontario and Quebec, and I know many Canadians. Canadians are often thought of as being polite, kind, cooperative and in general "nicer" than Americans, but in my opinion and experience, that stereotype is unfounded. In addition, albeit this is totally anecdotal, I hear more racist and otherwise bigoted comments in conversations with Canadians than with Americans of similar backgrounds. And yet, there is no question that on a societal level, Canada is much more tolerant and accommodating of cultural differences than the U.S. It seems, as this opinion piece points out, that Canada has managed to implement policies and programs that serve to overcome individuals' prejudices. We can learn from that.
15
"Mr. Trump has spoken about adopting a merit-based system before, and done nothing."
I suspect that if he tried to do something he would be criticized by the New York Times on the grounds of being heartless. The LESS qualified a potential immigrant, the MORE the NYT loves him/her.
That is the reality. If this article is a sign that the progressives are changing their tune, then it is good news.
I suspect that if he tried to do something he would be criticized by the New York Times on the grounds of being heartless. The LESS qualified a potential immigrant, the MORE the NYT loves him/her.
That is the reality. If this article is a sign that the progressives are changing their tune, then it is good news.
16
I'm French-Canadian, and in 1964, I immigrated to the US as a secretary. At the time, I needed $1,000 to get a green card to gain entry (a lot of money in those days). The reasoning being that with that money, you could support yourself for 3 months. And indeed, within a few weeks, I bought a car ($300), rented an apartment ($95 a month with a roommate), and landed a job ($35 a week). It never occurred to me that this was an unreasonable demand. How does this compare to today's policy? I don't know. Perhaps some commenters can elucidate.
8
Thank you for this. For the most part, liberals and conservatives are in agreement on immigration. It is Congress that stands in the way (as usual). For the vote conscious Congress, it boils dow to votes. A merit based system is more in line with a Republican view. Democrats do not like this because they may get a smaller percentage of these voters. A non merit based system results in voters who need more help and will vote Democratic. The Congress and the press turns this into a morality play. Most voters could figure this out. If we could just figure out how to get rid of the partisans in Congress.
6
A couple of points: Canada also has family reunification. Also, as much as I think that the Canadian immigration system makes sense, it also has one massive flaw: many of the qualified, highly educated people who get into Canada cannot use their skills once they get here. This is a colossal loss of human skills and initiative. For many years, Toronto had the best educated cab driver population in the world. Canada has said it will take measure to fix the incredibly destructive and wasteful barriers to the utilization of professional skills that this policy entails, but it has done relatively little so far. Until it does, Canada's merit-based system is. too often, a policy that brings in the best immigrants in the world and then makes it incredibly difficult for many of them to make their full contribution to their new country.
On the positive front, most Canadians understand that Canada's population only grows through immigration. Canadians also, generally, have the attitude that the only non-immigrants to the country are the native people. That makes it harder to make a proprietary claim on the country.
On the positive front, most Canadians understand that Canada's population only grows through immigration. Canadians also, generally, have the attitude that the only non-immigrants to the country are the native people. That makes it harder to make a proprietary claim on the country.
19
The commendable aspect of the Canadian treatment of the native population is that they regard them as "First Nation" and reserve for them the respect they deserve. Here in America we regard the native population (called Indians although none ever arrived from India) as a bothersome encumbrance to the acquisition of land. Despite the Proclamation of 1763 (a topic that is never discussed in the public schools) the quest for land was so great that our entire disgraceful history centered on the subjugation of the natives.
4
Motivational speakers often embrace the idea that failure has its positive side. That one is stronger bringing oneself up again from the bootstraps. Well, that may work on an individual basis, and I guess defeated nations can give that way of thinking a nod. Japan, Germany, and Vietnam can attest to that.
But Americans, in general, have not been put to the test. Our turn is around the corner and we will see if America, downtrodden by policy alone can recover whether Democrats are again in the majority or not.
But Americans, in general, have not been put to the test. Our turn is around the corner and we will see if America, downtrodden by policy alone can recover whether Democrats are again in the majority or not.
3
I heard many years ago that our family runification based immergration system was the result of pressure from US organized labor. Union leaders in skilled trades were afraid that their high paid members would have to compete with skillled europeans and assians who were trained under apprenticeship systems.
1
just to be accurate - the US brings in plenty of highly skilled people as well as admitting incredible numbers of unskilled - (a million and a half (plus) immigrants a year.)
the computer field is loaded with programmers from abroad - where it doesn't already actually ship the jobs overseas - it has crushed workers compensation in the programming field unless you are so brilliant or just plain lucky to get stock options that pan out - etc. (my last job half the workers where green cards - Russia, China, Jamaica, India) - computer programmers make less on average than high school teachers, and get no retirement benefits and tiny vacations-
Decades ago many warned of us turning into a 3rd world country and we are well on our way with our immigration policy.
From 200 million in 1980 to 300 million people in 2010 - a 50% population increase -- forget climate change issues, environmental issues, bifurcation of the US population. Until Democrats address the issue square on they will be a brand worse than Trumps.
the computer field is loaded with programmers from abroad - where it doesn't already actually ship the jobs overseas - it has crushed workers compensation in the programming field unless you are so brilliant or just plain lucky to get stock options that pan out - etc. (my last job half the workers where green cards - Russia, China, Jamaica, India) - computer programmers make less on average than high school teachers, and get no retirement benefits and tiny vacations-
Decades ago many warned of us turning into a 3rd world country and we are well on our way with our immigration policy.
From 200 million in 1980 to 300 million people in 2010 - a 50% population increase -- forget climate change issues, environmental issues, bifurcation of the US population. Until Democrats address the issue square on they will be a brand worse than Trumps.
4
In the middle of last century, Australia had a policy to favor European immigrants. Consequently, it chose to send Asian students back after the university studies were through even some wanted to stay because of job prospects and they had accustomed to the adopted country's way of life. To add insult to injury, the only European immigrants willing to move to Australia at that time were retirees who chose that country instead of say Britain because of the cost of living. Australia has learned its lesson.
America used to have a far better immigration policy and better job prospects. Besides, she is supposed to have learned her lesson from her history. Remember Chinese Exclusion Act of 1882? This makes the current regressive impulse makes it harder to reconcile
America used to have a far better immigration policy and better job prospects. Besides, she is supposed to have learned her lesson from her history. Remember Chinese Exclusion Act of 1882? This makes the current regressive impulse makes it harder to reconcile
7
What modern country allows in millions of unskilled migrants? Australia certainly doesn't.
3
@NL452KH
I so happen to know two unskilled immigrants just raised a MBA and Doctor (pediatrician). They worked hard the entire life and have retired with a couple of rental properties paying serious taxes, never once used government money.
How about you?
I so happen to know two unskilled immigrants just raised a MBA and Doctor (pediatrician). They worked hard the entire life and have retired with a couple of rental properties paying serious taxes, never once used government money.
How about you?
1
It is a smarter system focusing on skills, and needs of the nation. Unfortunately Democrats have lost their minds on Immigration, and cannot even admit that there are some big negatives to the UNDOCUMENTED. They refuse to push for mandatory Everify. They refuse to force the IRS and SS Administration to end the use of STOLEN IDENTITIES. In fact, the US government is complicit in ID theft fraud because as the IRS commissioner says they know someone's ID has been stolen but since the FEDS get some tax money from the theft its all good.
In Canada if you can't support yourself as an immigrant you are not welcome. IN the US if you become a public charge as an immigrant. The Dems won't let the government laws against such practices be enforced.
Farmers who refuse to use the Temporary Farm workers program because it affords the immigrant a basic level of housing, food and work conditions are protected. Instead of amending the program Democrats and Republicans would rather just look the other way.
The CBO, the Fed, numerous studies have said that undocumented low skilled immigrants are taking the entry level jobs of American citizen high schoolers, college kids, ed-cons trying to renter the workforce and the elderly looking for supplemental income. These starter jobs were to give valuable experience to first time workers at minimum wages.
In Canada if you can't support yourself as an immigrant you are not welcome. IN the US if you become a public charge as an immigrant. The Dems won't let the government laws against such practices be enforced.
Farmers who refuse to use the Temporary Farm workers program because it affords the immigrant a basic level of housing, food and work conditions are protected. Instead of amending the program Democrats and Republicans would rather just look the other way.
The CBO, the Fed, numerous studies have said that undocumented low skilled immigrants are taking the entry level jobs of American citizen high schoolers, college kids, ed-cons trying to renter the workforce and the elderly looking for supplemental income. These starter jobs were to give valuable experience to first time workers at minimum wages.
37
The undocumented in this country fill an enormous void in the workforce, something the conservatives are loathe to admit. Our agricultural sector almost entirely depends on those workers. And these workers are productive and live stable lives and raise families. Most of them are practicing Christians. It's time to recognize their contribution and to make it legal for them to work for us.
8
Actually, those who are most opposed to illegal immigrants are the ex-democrats from the working class. It was GW Bush who said they do the jobs that Americans don't want. I would amend that to Can't do.
2
Since no Democratic program has gotten through Congress in the last six years, you really should be directing all of this to the republicans.
2
Keep in mind that we do have merit based immigration. We also have various groups for various reasons who do not wish to have skilled immigrants in the US.
I remember the strict quotas on Eastern Europeans a few decades back. Unions in particular then did not want skilled tradesmen immigrants in any quantity.
Of course, we were and are selective. In the past, we were more than willing to take in the best scientists, engineers, doctors and such from Germany, USSR and China. Perhaps the "brain drain" will reverse.
Cheap unskilled labor seems to be a different set of stories. At one time, we did have a functioning work VISA program, particularly with our southern neighbors. Folks could come and go with relative ease to say pick crops. But wrenches were thrown into that system in DC and it seems to have fallen into broad ruin. Yet we still need the labor, and they still want the work. It's easier to deal with coming in, often with great risk, than trying to do it legally. It's a self created problem. Fix the immigration laws and the "illegal" problem disappears.
When I think about illegal immigrants I consider that they had to have the focus, drive, desire and ability to get here. Work under harsh conditions, send money back home, in some cases build new homes here. Some start businesses, educate their children, get involved in their communities even at the risk of being discovered and deported, or worse. Aren't these the same traits we worship about our pioneer ancestors?
I remember the strict quotas on Eastern Europeans a few decades back. Unions in particular then did not want skilled tradesmen immigrants in any quantity.
Of course, we were and are selective. In the past, we were more than willing to take in the best scientists, engineers, doctors and such from Germany, USSR and China. Perhaps the "brain drain" will reverse.
Cheap unskilled labor seems to be a different set of stories. At one time, we did have a functioning work VISA program, particularly with our southern neighbors. Folks could come and go with relative ease to say pick crops. But wrenches were thrown into that system in DC and it seems to have fallen into broad ruin. Yet we still need the labor, and they still want the work. It's easier to deal with coming in, often with great risk, than trying to do it legally. It's a self created problem. Fix the immigration laws and the "illegal" problem disappears.
When I think about illegal immigrants I consider that they had to have the focus, drive, desire and ability to get here. Work under harsh conditions, send money back home, in some cases build new homes here. Some start businesses, educate their children, get involved in their communities even at the risk of being discovered and deported, or worse. Aren't these the same traits we worship about our pioneer ancestors?
75
doctorij, what groups in the United States don't want to have verified, skilled immigrants in the U.S.? Please cite your sources. Thank you.
2
If only we had a merit-based system for electing presidents...
3
The Canadian system is the right way to go, period. We don't need more people, but more smart, hard-working individuals who can contribute positively to our society. Admission should be based on educational achievement, prospects for being able to work productively or start a business, and language skills. We should of course continue to offer refuge to people who are persecuted or suffering (but not purely "economic refugees" fleeing economically dysfunctional societies). We stopped needing cheap manual labor a long time ago. We need smart, talented people who want to work and create wealth. Our immigration policy should reflect this.
41
We do need more people. Or native born population is dropping (in actual numbers not as a percentage.) Without population from the outside we can't support our way of life.
"The Canadian system is the right way to go, period. We don't need more people, but more smart, hard-working individuals who can contribute positively to our society. "
But Jon please do not forget that Canada has taken in 45,000 Syrian REFUGEES in the last 2years and Canada did not get to do the selecting. The UN referred the Syrians to Canada as being the most in need & in danger. My family sponsored a Syrian family of 5 which languished in a UN Lebanon refugee camp for 2 years before coming to Canada where they were provided a home & living expenses & immediately enrolled in our universal healthcare program along with many other benefits. The 3 kids are doing well (kids are so pliable). The dad has a delivery job , a car and a future for his family. Something he sacrificed for to escape the war in Syria. Their language skills are improving with the help of English classes for all.
FYI, Steve Jobs , the founder of the most valuable US company by market cap (apple) was born to Syrian parents. Undoubtedly Canada will benefit from both their Immigration & Refugee programs.
Dump Trump , please, ASAP.
But Jon please do not forget that Canada has taken in 45,000 Syrian REFUGEES in the last 2years and Canada did not get to do the selecting. The UN referred the Syrians to Canada as being the most in need & in danger. My family sponsored a Syrian family of 5 which languished in a UN Lebanon refugee camp for 2 years before coming to Canada where they were provided a home & living expenses & immediately enrolled in our universal healthcare program along with many other benefits. The 3 kids are doing well (kids are so pliable). The dad has a delivery job , a car and a future for his family. Something he sacrificed for to escape the war in Syria. Their language skills are improving with the help of English classes for all.
FYI, Steve Jobs , the founder of the most valuable US company by market cap (apple) was born to Syrian parents. Undoubtedly Canada will benefit from both their Immigration & Refugee programs.
Dump Trump , please, ASAP.
2
'Our way of life' is fundamentally unsustainable, and the carrying capacity of our part of North America for people living 'our way of life' is substantially less than what we've got now.
Immigration to Canada is necessary because our economy needs the market that immigrants provide. It's also quite true that many immigrants have university degrees but getting them recognized in Canada is not so easy. Lastly, too many immigrants come to metropolitan Toronto, Vancouver or Montreal and leave out the rest of the country creating urban pressures never imagined and in Toronto and Vancouver unbelievable prices for housing. On the other hand, we have to be tolerant; your server in the cafeteria is from the Caribbean, the man behind you is from Pakistan, the woman ahead of you is Chinese, and the cook is from Sri Lanka.
55
I don't know about Totonto, but Vancouver's market is heavily driven by Pacific Rim hot money, like Florida is driven by that from Latin America.
1
Where do the workers fit in? Who provides Canada's cheap farm labor and construction labor? The US doesn't seem especially interested in the best but in laborers who do not have any rights and so who can make no complaints about work conditions.
13
Canada welcomes migrant farm workers usually from Mexico and the Caribbean. In my area they arrive each spring and stay until the crops are harvested in the autumn. Our community calls them guest workers and rallies round them providing warm clothing, bicycles and odd jobs while they are here. They abide by government regulations and are very welcome in our community.
8
Canada's (38 million) southern border is America, while our neighbor is Mexico (120 million) who have large pockets of poverty, poor education and extreme inequality. That population is drawn to America due to simple survival instincts helping to distorting regional labor markets especially in low skill sectors of the economy. That migrant labor pool also influences the economic decisions made by farmers and other labor intensive industries. For example, after slavery and the antidiscrimination laws, most black southern farm labor migrated to big cities. They were replaced by automation, poor immigrants and migrant Mexican farm labor. From 1986, as we started to criminalize the employment of illegal migration, Mexican families altered their migration patterns and started to planted roots on this side of the border, where it was easy to avoid enforcement (initially in California). In the 1986 fight to add employment verification (for the first time), rural farm bureaus and businesses fought attempts to introduce strict rules. In one of the most ironic acts of modern political history, the Democrats (white blue collar unions) wanted controls while the Republicans (chambers of commerce) fought reforms. The result was a compromise where verification occurs only at the workplace as part of the HR record. The subsequent size of the problem today is simply the result of 30 years of negligence by our elected national representatives.
2
We also have family reunification as a policy.
13
It is not surprising that Trump would look favorably on Canada's model. Conservatives' gripe is with illegal/undocumented immigration, not legal immigration -- and definitely not legal immigration of high-skilled workers.
Liberal-leaning commentators (including the NY Times) spin it as objection to all immigration, or even to the immigrants themselves as people, but that is a distortion. That spin is useful for scoring rhetorical points during political campaigns, but it is not a fair characterization of the average conservative's position.
It would be wonderful if the parties could put aside their partisan bickering long enough to realize there is sufficient common ground to fix our badly broken current system.
Liberal-leaning commentators (including the NY Times) spin it as objection to all immigration, or even to the immigrants themselves as people, but that is a distortion. That spin is useful for scoring rhetorical points during political campaigns, but it is not a fair characterization of the average conservative's position.
It would be wonderful if the parties could put aside their partisan bickering long enough to realize there is sufficient common ground to fix our badly broken current system.
44
Anon makes categorical statements that don't appear to be true. A large fraction of the current negative comments about, for example, H1-B visas comes from people who label themselves conservatives. The same applies to comments about immigrants not being white and Christian. Many of the companies that encouraged illegal immigration and that still use it when it is available are run by self-described conservatives. Conservatives are also active in the general movement to restrict immigration of skilled workers who might take "good" jobs away from "real Americans".
13
When you say that the Republicans' issue is not with legal immigration but with illegal/undocumented immigration, I think you fail to include that 20-25% of hardcore Republican Trump supporters who are flat-out racist. Look at those rallies he has to pump himself up in these hard times for his administration: the faces behind him are all white.
6
Interesting that the majority of anger toward illegal immigrants is directed at people from Mexico and Latin America while no mention is made of people from Canada or Western European nations who can also be illegal immigrants.
1
Yes, we all want the best and brightest to augment our economy, that is until they start taking high paying jobs away from us and lowering our children's trajectile in life (as any reasonable person would expect from the 1 million international students now crowding into our colleges). Canada has roughly 1/10th the population of America (35 million vs our 321 million). Let them take the newcomers and enjoy a rapid period of unbridled growth. Have fun, we have already done that and our urban centers have ballooned. America is now struggling to provide for its own population. We need to build up the base of well paying jobs first, take care of our own second and allow immigration (to mostly desperate people) third.
20
Hello from Canada. First, Canada calls its immigrants "new Canadians." I think we have less of an us v. them mentality. Also, I have no problem with my kids having to compete with more recently arrived classmates. If my kids want the scholarship or the high paying job, they'll have to work harder and be better. Why would I want them to just assume those jobs are "theirs"? That breeds mediocrity. I'd rather have my kids pushed to be smarter, to work harder, to make greater contributions to society.
4
Why should American youths be afraid of competition against their peers around the world? If American students lack the skills necessary for high-paying jobs, even though hypothetically the US deported all foreign students and STEM workers, do you think Corporate America would lower their standards and hire American students en masse instead? No! They would open branches in other countries and completely bypass the US immigration bureaucracy.
4
"America is now struggling to provide for its own population."
That is not because of immigrants, legal or illegal, but because of the greed of the richest Americans, a country in which the twenty wealthiest Americans have more wealth than the lowest 50 percent of the population. Our national wealth needs to be flowing through the population, but instead it is tied up in the bank accounts and stock holdings if a few people.
That is not because of immigrants, legal or illegal, but because of the greed of the richest Americans, a country in which the twenty wealthiest Americans have more wealth than the lowest 50 percent of the population. Our national wealth needs to be flowing through the population, but instead it is tied up in the bank accounts and stock holdings if a few people.
3
Very interesting and seemingly logical immigration policy. So, how does Canada deal with ILLEGAL immigration?
17
We do not like illegal immigrants. I can't imagine that illegals could get the same benefits in Canada (frre schooling for their children, Medicaid) as in the US.
5
How about having the Atlantic ocean on one side, the Pacific on the other and the US boarder to the south?
4
They send them to the US
4
Family reuinification was not designed to actively increase the number of people with few job skills or little education. But when the results of our system are compared to Canada's, that's exactly what we're doing.
I think a move to a system similar to Canada's will open our doors to millions who would not be able to enter because they don't already have family here. It would also benefit our country as a whole.
I think a move to a system similar to Canada's will open our doors to millions who would not be able to enter because they don't already have family here. It would also benefit our country as a whole.
119
As Canadians, most of us realize that our social safety net (universal health care, quality education, pension plans etc.) costs a lot, and requires a large number of tax payers. With a relatively low birthrate we need immigrants to come and work and build their lives here, so that they can help pay for the society that we have built.
372
@ Adam James Hamilton - Good point Adam, but maybe you need a larger number of refugees who will be willing to work at all levels within the health care system as is true here in Sweden.
As a result of working with 100s of Somali-born refugees, I learned long ago that apparently at least females are instantly advised - here in Linköping - to go to Birgittaskolan to become at least undersköterskor (practical nurses or nurse assistants) and from the many of these I know it appears they are a major asset for the Swedish health care system.
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
Dual citizen US SE
As a result of working with 100s of Somali-born refugees, I learned long ago that apparently at least females are instantly advised - here in Linköping - to go to Birgittaskolan to become at least undersköterskor (practical nurses or nurse assistants) and from the many of these I know it appears they are a major asset for the Swedish health care system.
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
Dual citizen US SE
1
A Chinese or Indian national with a doctorate degree from a top US institution usually has to wait for years to get a green card. Many of such people would be forced to leave the US because their temporary working visas would expire before their green cards are issued.
In contrast, a Chinese or Indian national who hasn't even finished high school and is on welfare can easily hire an immigration attorney who will fabricate fake documents to help him/her apply for a green card through the "political asylum" category, which typically takes a couple of months.
If you go to the Manhattan Chinatown or Flushing, you will find lots of Chinese people who have been in the US for only one or two years, working in restaurants and nail salons, to have green cards. If you go to Morningside Heights or Lenox Hill, you will probably find equal number of Chinese doctorate students and scholars who are worrying about not being able to get green cards even though they've been in the US for years and have published dozens of research papers on top scientific journals.
This is the reality of the US immigration system.
In contrast, a Chinese or Indian national who hasn't even finished high school and is on welfare can easily hire an immigration attorney who will fabricate fake documents to help him/her apply for a green card through the "political asylum" category, which typically takes a couple of months.
If you go to the Manhattan Chinatown or Flushing, you will find lots of Chinese people who have been in the US for only one or two years, working in restaurants and nail salons, to have green cards. If you go to Morningside Heights or Lenox Hill, you will probably find equal number of Chinese doctorate students and scholars who are worrying about not being able to get green cards even though they've been in the US for years and have published dozens of research papers on top scientific journals.
This is the reality of the US immigration system.
265
@dt
Just curious, how do you know that this group of immigrants in this area of the city are on welfare and that their immigration attorneys provide them all with fake and illegal documents?
Just curious, how do you know that this group of immigrants in this area of the city are on welfare and that their immigration attorneys provide them all with fake and illegal documents?
1
I'm a Chinese national who got PhD from Columbia in 2014 and has published first-author papers on journals like Science and Nature. My wife got her PhD from Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center and also has published a first-author paper on Nature. We both have been in the US for more than 7 years and are still waiting for our green card application to be cleared.
We've met so many other Chinese people in NYC, usually from Fujian or Guangdong provinces, who have much lower educational attainment and have been in the US for much less time than us. To our surprise, they all seem to have green cards already. When we asked them about their tricks, we always got the answer "political asylum". So what qualifies for political asylum? One does not need to be an activist or a rights lawyer. As long as one claims that he/she is the victim of the one-child policy, either a parent or a child, the green card will be swiftly issued. You think these people dared to confront the one-child policy because they were dissidents to the Chinese government? No! They simply preferred boys over girls and wouldn't stop until a boy was born.
In my original comment, I didn't assume that every of such immigrants fabricated their papers. It's just very easy to do so in the current system.
We've met so many other Chinese people in NYC, usually from Fujian or Guangdong provinces, who have much lower educational attainment and have been in the US for much less time than us. To our surprise, they all seem to have green cards already. When we asked them about their tricks, we always got the answer "political asylum". So what qualifies for political asylum? One does not need to be an activist or a rights lawyer. As long as one claims that he/she is the victim of the one-child policy, either a parent or a child, the green card will be swiftly issued. You think these people dared to confront the one-child policy because they were dissidents to the Chinese government? No! They simply preferred boys over girls and wouldn't stop until a boy was born.
In my original comment, I didn't assume that every of such immigrants fabricated their papers. It's just very easy to do so in the current system.
7
Many Chinese are told by their immigration lawyers to say they'd be persecuted back in China for being Christian or forced to have an abortion. This is what the immigration judge hears each and every day and yet still allows them to stay.
5
Absolutely. I say this knowing full well that I know that I wouldn't be eligible to immigrate to Canada due to my age(50 plus). At one point I had explored moving to Canada as I've spent time there and feel an affinity for it. I worked my way through the quizzes that give you a good estimate as to how likely you would be to be allowed to immigrate; at the time I would have been fine due to my educational level and work history. Once I turned 50 that was no longer the case unless I had a significant amount of money to invest in a business there.
What Canada does in general is to favor those who have the most to offer the country. Even though, as the article pointed out, they tend towards being uber liberal they are very careful to admit those who will be a net gain for the country. We should follow their lead.
What Canada does in general is to favor those who have the most to offer the country. Even though, as the article pointed out, they tend towards being uber liberal they are very careful to admit those who will be a net gain for the country. We should follow their lead.
208
Not nessarily true about age. I was 64 but scored high on everything else, as my 66 year old wife also did when we were admitted 7 years ago. We too tried to come when we were younger, but persisted We know quite a few others like ourselves. We were middle class, healthy, had education, job skills and SSI/ pension income and owned property in Canada. Suggest that other people like ourselves give it a try
2
Jonathan Tepperman provides us only with information about immigration in Canada and says nothing about refugees (called asylsökande in Sweden that is asylum seeking people). This is not a sufficient basis for making comparisons with Trump's positions concerning those who enter or want to enter the USA. Trump's concerns include undocumented immigrants (also called illegal immigrants) and asylum seekers (also called refugees).
Tepperman writes that Canada can sometimes seem downright Scandinavian. This may be true as concerns Universal Health Care but it is not even close to being true as concerns asylum seekers.
In 2015 Sweden was number 1 among so-called western countries, taking in 163,000 asylum seekers who simply entered in the hope that they could be granted permanent residence and even citizenship. In Canada, about 26,000 refugees have entered each year in the past 10 years. Since the total population of Sweden is 10,000,000 and of Canada 36,000,000 it is easy to see that Canada will be far down any list of refugees per capita population.
It would really help if all who write in the Times immigration and asylum seeking would at least give us one table with number in category x and the total population of each country under discussion.
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
Dual citizen US SE
Tepperman writes that Canada can sometimes seem downright Scandinavian. This may be true as concerns Universal Health Care but it is not even close to being true as concerns asylum seekers.
In 2015 Sweden was number 1 among so-called western countries, taking in 163,000 asylum seekers who simply entered in the hope that they could be granted permanent residence and even citizenship. In Canada, about 26,000 refugees have entered each year in the past 10 years. Since the total population of Sweden is 10,000,000 and of Canada 36,000,000 it is easy to see that Canada will be far down any list of refugees per capita population.
It would really help if all who write in the Times immigration and asylum seeking would at least give us one table with number in category x and the total population of each country under discussion.
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
Dual citizen US SE
59
The author is quite correct in drawing attention to Canada's historic disinterest in assisting those in need -- yes, some refugees have been sporadically admitted, but the policy is directed at improving Canada by selection of immigrants, not a relief programme as in Sweden. Canada is, of course, assisted by a rather large expanse of water between her shores and those of Europe, Africa and Asia, and the southern border is contiguous with the USA, not Mexico through which travel the desperate of Central America.
2
Sweden is not a good example when it comes to immigrations.It is a cautionary tale.
Canada has a better system which prioritizes people who contribute and not just take out the system.Highly educated immigrants are more desirable.They are more adaptable and have more social and cultural capital.Combine that with the fact that non-Muslim immigrants are easier to integrate you have a winner in Canada's system.
Sweden is more high tech than the US and more liberal.You cannot have people coming in who undermine that.That means choosing your future neighbours and even family members carefully.Canada wins.
Canada has a better system which prioritizes people who contribute and not just take out the system.Highly educated immigrants are more desirable.They are more adaptable and have more social and cultural capital.Combine that with the fact that non-Muslim immigrants are easier to integrate you have a winner in Canada's system.
Sweden is more high tech than the US and more liberal.You cannot have people coming in who undermine that.That means choosing your future neighbours and even family members carefully.Canada wins.
4
It's unclear how well that open arms refugee program is working out. Check back in a few.
5
Don't forget that one can pay to play in Canada and in the US.
If one is willing to invest $800,000 as a business person in Canada and one meets all other criteria, one can gain residency and ultimately, a passport.
In the United States, it is between $500,000-$1,000,000 for a green card depending on the type of investment that is made.
If one is willing to invest $800,000 as a business person in Canada and one meets all other criteria, one can gain residency and ultimately, a passport.
In the United States, it is between $500,000-$1,000,000 for a green card depending on the type of investment that is made.
27
I do not want to the diminish the comparison to Canada's amazing progress with Immigration, but may I point out the last major/wholesale review of Immigration Law in America was in 1986 under Ronald Reagan. Ironically, every major actor in that review is either retired from Congress or has passed away. The illegal immigration crisis is a direct result of the neglect by the congress towards immigration laws despite the significant demographic and economic changes that have occurred over the last 30 years.
97
i like this topic because i'm intersted in immigration to canada. i'm 29 years old man with a license degree in interpreting and translation. i've already heard alot about immigration to canada so i want to immigrate there to work and to look for better living conditions.anyboy can help me and guide me to reach my goals. i really appreciate that.
4
Do you speak/write French as well as English? (I'm thinking that in Algeria you might.) That would put you up on their points chart. But the system is an open book so I wonder why you are asking here.
17
You can check out china immigration website and peruse their immigration policy
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/
You simply need to Google: "Ambassade du Canada en Algérie" and you will find all the information you need. Bonne chance dans votre démarche!
4
Immigration reform, unlike almost any other major problem the U.S. faces, is a relatively easy fix. The obstacle is the most partisan politics the U.S. has faced since the Civil War. The Republicans want to keep out the "poor huddled masses yearning to be free," because those immigrants are more likely to vote Democratic. The Democrats don't want a merit based system -- especially one that requires immigrants to show a certain minimum wealth, or a needed skill, or a job in hand -- because they are more likely to vote Republican. Leave any two Americans of average intelligence in a room for 24 hours and they'll arrive at a viable immigration system. That rules out our politicians.
89
Both parties love cheap labor, as both parties are owned - completely - by business.
53
I agree.
Just prior to the revolution there was a pamphlet issued that addressed this, not immigration per se,, thought that put a couple of non partisans in a room and many of our problems could be solved. It took more than two but a group of men, of course, gathered in Philadelphia and made the big Declaration.
The Pamphlet was Common Sense. We need another. But from who.
Just prior to the revolution there was a pamphlet issued that addressed this, not immigration per se,, thought that put a couple of non partisans in a room and many of our problems could be solved. It took more than two but a group of men, of course, gathered in Philadelphia and made the big Declaration.
The Pamphlet was Common Sense. We need another. But from who.
1
Canada's immigration policy is anything but friendly. My family applied for a skilled worker visa on their previous points-based system (which allowed you to check and see if you qualified before you went through the application process), paid the substantial deposits required and then waited five years for our turn to be considered to come up. Only to be told that Canada had changed its immigration laws retrospectively to only allow people from certain professions that they were lacking. So basically, if you didn't hold a qualification on the list of about 20 selected professions (many from healthcare) then you didn't stand a chance, unless you were fabulously wealthy. Don't be fooled by their government spin. They are simply cherry-picking the cream of the crop and everyone else can go hang. Unless they are welcoming Syrian refugees for the sake of the world media's cameras, that is.
98
And good for them. It should be a rare privilege to live in Canada. As it should be here in the US.
53
It's understandable that you feel bitter about not being accepted, but "cherry-picking" is the whole point of this article--matching immigrants to the needs of the country.
Syrian refugees to Canada certainly have attracted a great deal of media attention, especially in the U.S., but to suggest that private Canadian citizens take on the huge burden of assisting refugee families for the sake of publicity is quite mistaken.
Syrian refugees to Canada certainly have attracted a great deal of media attention, especially in the U.S., but to suggest that private Canadian citizens take on the huge burden of assisting refugee families for the sake of publicity is quite mistaken.
120
If you are a foreign medical doctor you will not be allowed into Canada, other "health" professionals usually have to retrain and re-certify.
7
With Mr Trump I've had my fill,
He acts, not for good, just for ill
You can always depend
He'll go wrong in the end,
Smart Immigration? Bitter pill.
He acts, not for good, just for ill
You can always depend
He'll go wrong in the end,
Smart Immigration? Bitter pill.
49
Every country has the right to secure their border. Americans have no issue with legal immigrants or refugees. Our most divisive issue is how to address illegal immigrants.
If we're going to be serious about addressing our immigration policies that means that we're going to need to actually hold employers accountable for hiring illegal immigrants. There can't be exceptions for day laborers, farmers, domestic workers, or private employees. All employers must use e-verify and need to face steep penalties for non-compliance.
We've always danced around addressing our immigration policies but too many powerful businesses fight change or try to exempt themselves because they are able to pay immigrants lower wages with our current system. The h1b visa program is a good example. American workers are forced to train their replacement from another country and then are laid off. Unless such exploitation is addressed any changes to our current system is meaningless.
If we're going to be serious about addressing our immigration policies that means that we're going to need to actually hold employers accountable for hiring illegal immigrants. There can't be exceptions for day laborers, farmers, domestic workers, or private employees. All employers must use e-verify and need to face steep penalties for non-compliance.
We've always danced around addressing our immigration policies but too many powerful businesses fight change or try to exempt themselves because they are able to pay immigrants lower wages with our current system. The h1b visa program is a good example. American workers are forced to train their replacement from another country and then are laid off. Unless such exploitation is addressed any changes to our current system is meaningless.
164
"Americans have no issue with legal immigrants or refugees"? I'd say you do, as does the president. People who come in on the h1b visa program, to which you object, are legal immigrants. Most of the people who want to come here from the 6 countries on Trump's travel ban are refugees. Businesses you criticize for trying to change immigration laws to save themselves labor costs may be self-serving, but they are trying to increase legal immigration by doing so.
27
Illegal immigration happens because the US hasn't been willing to give work visas to field and migrant workers. And the reason why agricultural employers don't use E-verify on their illegal workers is because they wouldn't have anyone to work in the field. Until you put those coal miners who lost their jobs in the field to pick our vegetables, we will have to rely on illegal immigrants to eat.
5
America has no issue with documented immigrants and refugees?! Did you miss the 2016 election. Did you miss the initial enactment of Trump's Muslin ban? Republicans, especially their winning presidential candidate, go out of their way to promote fear of any immigrants.
6
Mr. Tepperman seems to relate only to "immigrants" and not to refugees who seem to enter Canada under different criteria.
But even regarding immigrants and immigration it pays to maintain a clear perspective.
Canada has a serious racism problem regarding its Aboriginal population:
http://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/out-of-sight-out-of-mind-2/
Perhaps they should get their own act together first.
But even regarding immigrants and immigration it pays to maintain a clear perspective.
Canada has a serious racism problem regarding its Aboriginal population:
http://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/out-of-sight-out-of-mind-2/
Perhaps they should get their own act together first.
11
To Amanda:
150 years ago Ramat-Gan was pasture land and probably nobody was living there. When my wife moved in to her families new apartment in Ramat Gan in 1974 there were still cows and sheep wandering by.
Of course if I lived in Sheboygan, or in Oxford, your reply would not be ad hominem. I suggest you read further on those problems in Canada. My location is irrelevant.
150 years ago Ramat-Gan was pasture land and probably nobody was living there. When my wife moved in to her families new apartment in Ramat Gan in 1974 there were still cows and sheep wandering by.
Of course if I lived in Sheboygan, or in Oxford, your reply would not be ad hominem. I suggest you read further on those problems in Canada. My location is irrelevant.
5
How much education do you have and how much money to bring to Canada ?
Not enough, well don't bother even showing up at the border for you will
not be admitted.
As for Canada's Immigration policy what will native born Canadians being
thinking and feeling when they wake up one day and find that they are working
for Immigrants and being governed by Immigrants - who, oddly enough, now
find it in their economic interested to discriminate against lazier native Canadians.