The king appears to be the djt of the Middle East. And his family seems about as knowledgeable. The Yin and Yang of ineptitude.
3
Without a doubt we have lost Iraq to Iran and Russia will retain Syria. On the horizon I see us backing the Saudis in their fight against Iran's regional reach similar to how we backed Saddam in the Iran-Iraq eight year war which ended in a draw. Once again we stick our nose where it doesn't belong and may be backing another loser. It seems that the Republicans may get their war with Iran yet by proxy, but proxy or not I predict the same result. We wind up with nothing.
4
ah well, nominate (by any means) a young (or not so young) man without government experience, a proneness to impulsive and ill thought decisions and an autocratic streak. What could go wrong ?
4
It's a coup. Put the country to war and then shift in the new "Prince". Not much choice for the royal family and of course, no choice for the people.
Petty princes, supported by outsiders, don't last long. But the end game for Saudi royalty is to take all available money and flee.
Petty princes, supported by outsiders, don't last long. But the end game for Saudi royalty is to take all available money and flee.
1
That this evil bunch are our closest allies is truly at the core of all our problems.
3
I read an article about the sham kingdom of Saudi Arabia and realize that I couldn't care less. This is a vile country lead by despotic rulers so the fact that they welcomed the current president of this country in splendor was not a surprise at all but, on the contrary, expected. These lands which were built over vast reserves of oil and nothing else other than sand are the lands where EVERYTHING is gold plated. I 'm waiting for the doorknobs of the White House to be dipped in gold at any moment. Honestly, what does it matter? The history of whatever we thought our society had accomplished has been defiled. I feel genuinely sick in my gut typing these words: POTUS more at home in Saudi Arabia than the United Kingdom, France, or any other civilized country. Translation? WE ARE DOOMED to irrelevance within a hundred years.
7
In this day and age, to elevate a human being to great power and wealth over any other solely because of nepotism or the whims of a dictator is obscene on so many levels.
To subjugate the people along the way, even more so .
To subjugate the people along the way, even more so .
4
The "Traders" on Wall Street are preparing to invest in Saudi Arabia's national, I wrote national oil company while America fails economically.
"Traders" indeed.
"Traders" indeed.
1
At the end of the day, the biggest losers are the hundred of thousands of migrant workers. Companies have tighter grip on the lives of workers earning miserable salaries, sending memos to workers announcing cut in salary. Companies getting used to the end of free for all, now paying taxes and passing their losses to the backs of voiceless migrant workers. Nobody talks about inflation in Saudi Arabia, prices doubled, tripled in basic article of daily use. Of course the Saudi citizens don't care, they benefit from the huge salaries that the government provides. Another apartheid that nobody talks about it. The migrant workers earning 300 dollars a month versus a the average Saudi citizen earning 7,000 to 10,000 dollars per month.
6
Ah our friend and ally Saudi Arabia!
Saudi Arabia, the only country in the world that not quite as bad as North Korea.
Saudi Arabia, the country whose citizens carried out the 9-11 attacks.
We are so lucky to have Saudi Arabia on our side!
Saudi Arabia, the only country in the world that not quite as bad as North Korea.
Saudi Arabia, the country whose citizens carried out the 9-11 attacks.
We are so lucky to have Saudi Arabia on our side!
6
Prince Mohammed bin Salman has made a name for himself by promoting adventures like the Yemen war, adventures that are not turning out well at all. Reckless adventures.
One possibility is that he exploited the drama to promote himself, and now that he has gotten what he wanted he will back off.
The other possibility is that he is a reckless adventurer on a path to multiple defeats in the not too distant future. I'd be surprised if that route ends with him as king. If he passes any time on the throne under this possibility, it might well be the end of the throne as it has been.
So how cynical is he? Machiavelli, or just a reckless fool?
One possibility is that he exploited the drama to promote himself, and now that he has gotten what he wanted he will back off.
The other possibility is that he is a reckless adventurer on a path to multiple defeats in the not too distant future. I'd be surprised if that route ends with him as king. If he passes any time on the throne under this possibility, it might well be the end of the throne as it has been.
So how cynical is he? Machiavelli, or just a reckless fool?
2
And so the infighting begins. Donald, Jr., Eric and Barron...with Princesses Ivana and Tiffany (and could there be more? Time will tell, as Trump heirs emerge from the woodwork) waiting in the wings. Welcome the American dynasty!
4
Let's see - how about Jared K replacing the ineffectual S of S?
3
“Even if people are uncomfortable, at the end of the day this is a monarchical decision, and people will either have to accept the new arrangement or they will essentially have to keep their mouths shut.”
This is just what Trump thought being POTUS would entail.
This is just what Trump thought being POTUS would entail.
19
When ya can't trust anyone, hire the nephew, oops, son.
3
Best wishes to the new Crown Prince, Mohammed bin Salman.
The world prays that your kingdom ceases its support of terrorism.
The world prays that your kingdom ceases its support of terrorism.
10
Can you imagine a world in which Middle Eastern countries like Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Bahrain and Qatar were not extremist Wahabists but instead a moderate form of Islam, similar to Sufi? No al Qaeda, ISIS, Boka Haram, Taliban, or al Shabaab. Madrassas might actually teach students something useful. Nice to dream...
1
This story is about the same as the one about Prince Jared of the New York, (and farreaching), Trump Real Estate, Retail, and Reality TV Empire.
Saudis have oil, the Trump/Kushner empire has Real Estate and licensing. These family's ownership and control their respective empires major resources for their own benefit and continued dynasties is spectacular and maybe not quite ethical in its extreme.
Saudis have oil, the Trump/Kushner empire has Real Estate and licensing. These family's ownership and control their respective empires major resources for their own benefit and continued dynasties is spectacular and maybe not quite ethical in its extreme.
2
Misread the headline; thought that Jared was being replaced by Eric.
8
I hope that Trump will find it in himself to nominate his son-in-law Jared as his successor. I am sure he will turn out to be a better ruler than his two grownup sons.
I am not sure if Putin has a son, but he too has a capable son-in-law. Can he nominate him as his successor?
This will eventually lead to a rule-of -aw, which we all would like to have.
I am not sure if Putin has a son, but he too has a capable son-in-law. Can he nominate him as his successor?
This will eventually lead to a rule-of -aw, which we all would like to have.
2
Family of gangsters cloaked in religious mumbo jumbo. They are not our friends.
13
Sons or sons in law, what's the difference? At least the king is a king.
4
Does it really matter how they move the deck chairs on the Titanic? This family's despotic (by definition) rule is at the core of the strife in the Middle East. They can be no legitimate royal rule. A more sincere article would address the gross corruption and human rights violations in the kingdom. How about a weekly article on who was stoned, had a limb amputated, spine severed or was beheaded this week in the public square. And, I wish I was being sarcastic but that is how justice is still served in Saudi Arabia. And, we are associated and allied with this regime having fought wars on their behalf and currently engaging their enemies, the Iranians.
12
One foreseeable problem may be that the young prince, heir to the throne, has already embarked on a path to diversify the Saudi economy and to change the social norms. When a repressive regime implements changes, there are usually some unforeseen consequences.
There may be a fight with Iran to unify the factions, whatever they may be, in Saudi Arabia. The social reforms, desirable as they may be, have the potential to unleash reactions. New economic realities can provoke reactions; people get upset when they have to pay more for food and other essentials.
Given our government's apparent alignment with the Saudi regime, we ought to be concerned about this development. I would feel more confident if the State Department was being enhanced rather than allowed to deteriorate.
There may be a fight with Iran to unify the factions, whatever they may be, in Saudi Arabia. The social reforms, desirable as they may be, have the potential to unleash reactions. New economic realities can provoke reactions; people get upset when they have to pay more for food and other essentials.
Given our government's apparent alignment with the Saudi regime, we ought to be concerned about this development. I would feel more confident if the State Department was being enhanced rather than allowed to deteriorate.
1
They knew they needed the younger generation so they took the chance and while he still has the powers do so, forced the older generations to step off the mainline to the sidelines so that the youthful could lead a lot longer than 5 to 10 years, but maybe 20 or more. For the long term that might be the best move, though they will slowly fade if they only live off oil wealth, they have a lot solar potential, they should use it now.
3
Mohammed bin Salman from various articles in financial publications seems to hate waste and understands that Saudi Arabia needs to re-think its dependence on oil. Since oil is not a renewable energy source. And like with ALL royal families kids work for the family 'company'.
5
You gotta check this guy out, Joseph A. Kechichian. This is the kind of person that the US needs to help guide our Mid East policy. He's in the right crowd, speaks every language you need, except maybe Hebrew, and he understands the neighborhood. You know the Bush years they (Bush boys) didn't even know how to pronounce some of these Mid East country names let alone understand Sunni/Shia tribal mentalities. Save him for when we have a sane president, if we use him now he'll just get abused and ignored.
5
Since the people of Saudi Arabia are temperamentally incapable of democracy, it is a good thing they have a ruthless dictatorship in place forever to keep them in their places. What could be more forward looking than a dynastic monarchy?
The United States is nearly incapable of self-rule which is why it has already undergone a devastating Civil War, is tangled up in gerrymandering and sabotaged by the electoral college, and is not in the midst of "deconstructing the administrative state" in favor of a plutocracy. No doubt our great leader Trump will guide us like pliant sheep to our rightful destiny. Lucky us!
The United States is nearly incapable of self-rule which is why it has already undergone a devastating Civil War, is tangled up in gerrymandering and sabotaged by the electoral college, and is not in the midst of "deconstructing the administrative state" in favor of a plutocracy. No doubt our great leader Trump will guide us like pliant sheep to our rightful destiny. Lucky us!
14
"Since the people of Saudi Arabia are temperamentally incapable of democracy, it is a good thing they have a ruthless dictatorship"
The people of Saudi Arabia are more like cats, and the monarch is trying to herd them. It requires constant cajoling and compromise.
It is not a ruthless dictatorship; that could not be done with them. The tribes would explode.
It is medieval, but that is not the same thing. They stand around and enjoy the spectacles. Big crowds for beheadings in the street or lashings. If they were democratic, they might vote for things even worse.
The people of Saudi Arabia are more like cats, and the monarch is trying to herd them. It requires constant cajoling and compromise.
It is not a ruthless dictatorship; that could not be done with them. The tribes would explode.
It is medieval, but that is not the same thing. They stand around and enjoy the spectacles. Big crowds for beheadings in the street or lashings. If they were democratic, they might vote for things even worse.
3
How sweet to cover the re-orderings in totalitarian Saudi Arabia with a little input from the guy with the King Faisal think tank! I wonder if the NYT is going to extend this kind of thing to other nations. When Putin reshuffles, are we going to have little quotes about his youthfulness from the Putin Institute for Russian studies? This article is a reminder that Saudi investors have shrewdly put a lot of money in media stock. It pays!
13
Not often mentioned in any articles about SA is their native unemployment rates - estimated to be anywhere from 12, up to nearly 20%. Nationals of course. As they don't pay attention to all the imported workers, who dont really exist, as they are barely thought to be human, and do most of the real labor and dirty work. No true Saudi would do such things. National Saudis were mostly employed by the gov't, and in upper level non-physical work in the oil industry, but cutbacks have tightened those, and the national youth population keeps growing...
Unemployment will be a huge issue for the new heir to the throne.
Distractions with their military will only go so far...and Trump won't be much help in this issue...
Ah, the Middle East...the gift that keeps on giving...while taking so much from us...
Unemployment will be a huge issue for the new heir to the throne.
Distractions with their military will only go so far...and Trump won't be much help in this issue...
Ah, the Middle East...the gift that keeps on giving...while taking so much from us...
21
You are entirely right.
The House of Saud has Prince Mohammad Bin Salman. While the House of Trump has Prince Jared Kushner. And the leading men of both houses were recently in Riyadh dancing with their swords and rubbing magical orbs.
Neither prince nor their respective father has ever been bravely patriotic and honorable enough to wear the military uniform of any armed force. Saudi Arabia is a theocratic royal fossil fuel autocratic generator and sponsor of terrorism armed and trained by America. The Saudis are engaged in ethnic sectarian genocide against the Houthi in Yemen.
If America wanted divinely selected royals then our national anthem would be 'God Be God Save the Queen' and our key Princes would be named Charles and William. In addition to Jared we have Donnie, Jr. and Eric also playing pathetic parasite scavenger by birth.
Neither prince nor their respective father has ever been bravely patriotic and honorable enough to wear the military uniform of any armed force. Saudi Arabia is a theocratic royal fossil fuel autocratic generator and sponsor of terrorism armed and trained by America. The Saudis are engaged in ethnic sectarian genocide against the Houthi in Yemen.
If America wanted divinely selected royals then our national anthem would be 'God Be God Save the Queen' and our key Princes would be named Charles and William. In addition to Jared we have Donnie, Jr. and Eric also playing pathetic parasite scavenger by birth.
23
How telling that President Trump phoned the Saudi King congratulating him on the move to install is son. What better indicator of Trump's political ideal: nepotism.
70
Why would anyone be surprised by this. It is logical to appoint one's own son ahead of a nephew. It isn't as if Saudi Arabia is a democracy where appointing close family members is taboo. We should mind our own business about something that is also happening in our country and the perpetrator's own party declines to denounce it.
17
What does the twitter message in the story say? Or does the NYT expect us to be proficient in Arabic? Let us hope the new designated successor will be more sensible that his dad. The 80+ years old King S looked very nervous when Trump visited his palace and gave a speech last month. I was wondering what made the King so nervous.
Dynastic political intrigue? Sounds like the Bushes or the Clintons...
Just what the Middle East and the world needs -- more upheaval, and a young man now in line for throne who seems to believe that military force is the answer to a problem. Destroying Yemen (as a proxy for Iran) in the name of religion is an old story. It has never ended well for anyone.
If this planet survives to the year 2500, I wonder if the humans alive at that point will look back at the years since 1900 as characterized by an irrational use of force that is by their definition, crazy.
If this planet survives to the year 2500, I wonder if the humans alive at that point will look back at the years since 1900 as characterized by an irrational use of force that is by their definition, crazy.
5
Mohammed bin Salman has won praise for his youthful energy, but he has shown a worrisome lack of humility. Even if he turns out to be a very effective leader, he has all the makings of a megalomaniacal tyrant.
40 years of absolute power over one of the most restrictive societies in the world could easily turn into a nightmare for both the Saudi people, to say nothing of the dangers they pose to regional and international stability.
Even though Prince bin Salman is called a "reformer," there is virtually no way to predict how his notions of reform will evolve over the years.
His decisions regarding the brutal war against the Houthis in Yemen are darkly foreboding. No one should expect bin Salman to become another Kemal Ataturk. Stalin or Mao are much more likely to become apt analogies. "Reformers" often become despots.
I pray that the more experienced members of the House of Saud will find ways to keep his ear. Even though I am not favorably disposed towards the Saudi monarch overall, I respect their efforts to root out al-Qaeda and other violent extremists. We shall see whether or not they have acted out of mere self-interest, or have a more far-reaching understanding of the dangers of continuing to tolerate Wahabbist extremism. Sadly, given the monarchy's present obsession with Iran and Shiites in general, as well as their recent ham-handed attempts to intimidate the Qataris, I'm very skeptical that they will adopt a wiser foreign policy in the foreseeable future.
40 years of absolute power over one of the most restrictive societies in the world could easily turn into a nightmare for both the Saudi people, to say nothing of the dangers they pose to regional and international stability.
Even though Prince bin Salman is called a "reformer," there is virtually no way to predict how his notions of reform will evolve over the years.
His decisions regarding the brutal war against the Houthis in Yemen are darkly foreboding. No one should expect bin Salman to become another Kemal Ataturk. Stalin or Mao are much more likely to become apt analogies. "Reformers" often become despots.
I pray that the more experienced members of the House of Saud will find ways to keep his ear. Even though I am not favorably disposed towards the Saudi monarch overall, I respect their efforts to root out al-Qaeda and other violent extremists. We shall see whether or not they have acted out of mere self-interest, or have a more far-reaching understanding of the dangers of continuing to tolerate Wahabbist extremism. Sadly, given the monarchy's present obsession with Iran and Shiites in general, as well as their recent ham-handed attempts to intimidate the Qataris, I'm very skeptical that they will adopt a wiser foreign policy in the foreseeable future.
4
Great point about "reformers". IMO, they aint one till the reformations grow in number and breadth and take hold enough to truly fix that which needs reforming...SA still under 5% of what should change for all their people, especially their female populations.
This move is driven by Saudi Arabia's rivalry with Iran. For all its faults, Iran looks poised to transition into the 21st Century better than Saudi Arabia. It has a more diverse economy less dependent on oil, its women are empowered (relative to Saudi Arabia), and political reform is slowly transforming the country. None of this can be said about Saudi Arabia. When (not if) the world transitions from oil, the Saudi family risks having nothing to show for it other than managing access to the holy cities of Mecca and Medina.
12
Iran is also four times bigger in population, and already partly industrialized, with a wealth in natural resources far beyond oil and gas.
1
One day, Saudi Arabia will simply be Arabia again.
I think we are now seeing that the Qatar crisis was after all manufactured to this end. Oh wait, that was Trump's idea, so it can't be.
5
I would like to see an article explaining why we are friends with the Saudis and not the Iranians. Throughout history the Iranians have had a culture that is for want of a better term "more civilized" than the Saudis.
I suspect it is because we backed their last Shah and thereby made a lot of enemies within Iran. Now they most likely just don't trust us. Since we not need oil from either country why are we always taking sides in that part of the world.
I suspect it is because we backed their last Shah and thereby made a lot of enemies within Iran. Now they most likely just don't trust us. Since we not need oil from either country why are we always taking sides in that part of the world.
15
It was not that the USA "backed" the Shah. The USA overthrew a democraticly elected government and replaced it with a severely repressive dictatorship of the Shah's regime. Not exactly a minor whoops. Just like Chile and installing the repressive regime of Pinochet.
10
There was a little thing we did - overthrowing a fairly elected president, who was seen as not a friendly enough US ally. Then replacing him with a major despot.
Check it out.
Check it out.
7
So they put an inexperienced young man in charge of their interior ministry responsible for keeping the monarchy in power. What could go wrong?
7
The head of Saudi Arabia reminds me of someone... Oh yes, Donald Trump. Who needs experience when we can have nepotism. Watch your back Mike Pence - you will soon be replaced by the golden child (not to be confused with golden showers) Ivanka Trump as Vice-President and next in line for the Presidency.
3
Will Trump emulate the Saudi Royal and replace Pence with Jared in the succession plans for the 45th and final POTUS?
2
Jared is a close personal friend of Nayef, the removed crown prince.
2
Astonishing that the inciters of 9-11 are described as "a close American ally". They may favor some craven, multimillionaire kleptocrats and money men currently living here, but the House of Saud is not, and never has been, a friend of the American people.
21
And the doors open for another dictator - whoops, I mean king!
1
Soon to be Trumped by Donnie Dollars and his klan?
3
The succession in SA has always been opaque, and until now has passed down the sons of Abdul Aziz skipping those thought to be incompetent or tinged by scandal. When Salman took over on Abdullah's death it appeared for a while that this might continue, as Murqin, the last of the second generation, was the initial choice for heir. He was replaced by Mohammed bin (son of) Naïf as the first of the third generation. This meant that the sons of prior kings such as Faisal, Khalid and Fahd were bypassed but at least Mohammed bin Naïf was widely seen as competent. Now that MbN has been tossed from the mix and Salman's own inexperienced and impulsive son has been handed the torch, those third generation sons are in the cold despite seniority and sometimes massive experience. This will not end well.
3
Nepotism at the height of its powers. Dad is 81 years old. Is his vision impaired?
Undoubtedly. This nepotic episode is radical at best. These guys are too young.
Undoubtedly. This nepotic episode is radical at best. These guys are too young.
A "key" US ally where the burning societal question is whether to allow women to drive. Positively Jeffersonian!!!!
10
Perhaps the move is for plausible deniability; 31-16 = 15, hey I was in puberty when the towers fell. Ask my dad.
2
My gosh- Trump has really clouded the thinking of so many NYT readers- comparing this Mohammed to Jared? Comparing US democracy to monarchy?- that simple informed logic escapes them. So, simply stated:
1. Prince Mohammed has more than 5 years experience in the public realm; he is not a neophyte. You don't have to agree with him, but we best honestly evaluate and create relationships with him, because this young man may turn out to be the Saudi Queen Elizabeth II, but one with real power and influence.
2. This is how the Saudis rule and govern. We are not in the business of regime change, and certainly not with an important regionally ally like the Saudis.
Please, fellow NYT readers- it's ok to be Anti-Trump. But our rationality has been thrown out with the bathwater. Eyes on the prize.
1. Prince Mohammed has more than 5 years experience in the public realm; he is not a neophyte. You don't have to agree with him, but we best honestly evaluate and create relationships with him, because this young man may turn out to be the Saudi Queen Elizabeth II, but one with real power and influence.
2. This is how the Saudis rule and govern. We are not in the business of regime change, and certainly not with an important regionally ally like the Saudis.
Please, fellow NYT readers- it's ok to be Anti-Trump. But our rationality has been thrown out with the bathwater. Eyes on the prize.
21
Jonny. Sarcasm.
It will be interesting how the wider House of Saud family reacts to these developments. For generations the family has done well to rotate the top roles among the multiple lines of Ibn Saud descendants. If that is lost and one family line moves to centralize power it would seem the other family lines could react unfavorably. Stay tuned.
76
An unfavorable reaction is even more "explosive" amongst the Saudi Royals with $100's of billions in military weaponry supplied by us to settle family squabbles.
6
Trump love Saudi Arabia and he's jealous he's not their King as he'd have no press or Congress to deal with. In any event, Saudi Arabia faces a plethora of issues in the next quarter century.
11
Without stepping into the political issues, there is an interesting language point here--really an editorial issue. The story, in large part, concerns Mohammed bin Salman and Mohammed bin Nayef. Although the writer tried to keep things in order, we learn that the King's decree "removed Prince Mohammed" and also ordered "Prince Mohammed's promotion"; furthermore, "Prince Mohammed has taken a hard line on Iran". (There are more examples.) Was anyone else checking back to guide their interpretation? A new naming approach seems to be called for.
10
History tells us that royal dynasties have to modernize and improvise in order to survive, and it would seem that skipping a generation to name as heir an energetic, younger person more familiar with the modern world is a smart move.
3
It's great to be young if you want to be a gymnast, but not an inexperienced ruler.
It may come as a shock to Donald Trump and his followers, but a handshake is not enough and unwillingness to learn is not a virtue. Thank goodness our country still have spokesmen who are steeped in history and enjoy political experience.
It may come as a shock to Donald Trump and his followers, but a handshake is not enough and unwillingness to learn is not a virtue. Thank goodness our country still have spokesmen who are steeped in history and enjoy political experience.
3
King Trump has done the same thing in terms of his son--in-law and daughter. Given that crown princes can ascend the throne at any age, Donald Baron Trump ould be anointed crown prince at any time
Unlike Saudi Arabia, the United States is not supposed to be an absolute monarchy, but the Trump is behaving as it is ,while those who should
be intervening have failed to step forward to proclaim :" The Emperor has no Clothes."
Perhaps some small children will step forward, as in the fable. Children
speak the truth as they see it, and aren't generally in positions of power they
are afraid to risk -unless they are crown princes.
Unlike Saudi Arabia, the United States is not supposed to be an absolute monarchy, but the Trump is behaving as it is ,while those who should
be intervening have failed to step forward to proclaim :" The Emperor has no Clothes."
Perhaps some small children will step forward, as in the fable. Children
speak the truth as they see it, and aren't generally in positions of power they
are afraid to risk -unless they are crown princes.
21
We almost had a monarchy with Clinton but we'll let that one slide. The US isn't even near to being a monarchy, please stop with the hyperbole.
1
These children are stepping forward with a lawsuit against the U.S.
Their position is that they would like to extend a livable planet to future generations.
https://www.ourchildrenstrust.org/us/federal-lawsuit/
Their position is that they would like to extend a livable planet to future generations.
https://www.ourchildrenstrust.org/us/federal-lawsuit/
1
It is unavoidable. If Saudi needs to survive in the 21th century, the selection system of a successor has to change. It is better that the change occurs sooner rather than it is forced to change later.
Selecting within themselves is hardly a change. A real change would be if the people of the country, including women, can vote in a leader with the monarchy sidelined to a ceremonial head of state.
3
Sounds like the King got reminded of the pleasantries of in-house power dealings from Donald.
The world is getting smaller- the Saudi family + Exxon are branching out from oil to build the world's largest steam cracker plant right on the Gulf of Mexico in South Texas. Locals got sidelined in the decision to basically build a plastics plant 3 miles from a high school and elementary school. "Thousands of jobs" to build what in a few years will be run by a handful but they will "definitlely be monitoring air quality" of ethylene. Uh hunh.
You have to appreciate their irony index of having Texas good old boys work for the Saudi King, who in his wisdom probably didnt want his own people breathing this stuff.
The world is getting smaller- the Saudi family + Exxon are branching out from oil to build the world's largest steam cracker plant right on the Gulf of Mexico in South Texas. Locals got sidelined in the decision to basically build a plastics plant 3 miles from a high school and elementary school. "Thousands of jobs" to build what in a few years will be run by a handful but they will "definitlely be monitoring air quality" of ethylene. Uh hunh.
You have to appreciate their irony index of having Texas good old boys work for the Saudi King, who in his wisdom probably didnt want his own people breathing this stuff.
15
I don,t see any better future for the people of Saudi Arabia, because all the members of the Al Saud are the same , power- thirsty,egoist, tyrant and dictator ,No difference Young or Old!! The political and security situation in the turmoil-effected Middle East region requires a wise ,experienced and open-minded ruler in The richest country of the region. To extinguish the burning fire of the domestic wars in Syria and Yemen ,where the KSA plays destructive role and shed oil on the fire, requires peace loving politicians who can play the role of mediator , while Mohammad Ben Salman has been the main igniter to make fire!! The stifling political situation in Saudi Arabia has left no room for the people to say their words , detention,torture ,imprisonment and execution is the certain destiny of those who oppose the ruling system or ask for their primary human rights . To establish freedom , in different aspects, an open -minded ruler should come to recognize democracy and respect Human Rights and grant the people the rights of choosing their own destiny . Surely this guy can not be found among Al Saud dynasty. So we should be sorry for the Saudi people who will witness not only a better situation , but worse conditions.
3
What kind of leader of a major country just appoints a young, inexperienced family member to run critical parts of the government? Those countries are so backwards.
Oh wait, I guess we don't hold the morale high-ground there anymore either.
Oh wait, I guess we don't hold the morale high-ground there anymore either.
97
Perhaps you meant "moral" instead of "morale?" Yet, my view is that lack of better "morals" in D.C. has severely dampened our nation's morale.
2
At least we and Saudis have a couple of things in common. 1) Both are currently ruled by dynasties. 2) Where the leaders promote members of their own family to important positions.
No wonder Donald Loves Salman!
No wonder Donald Loves Salman!
25
Ah, nothing like being allied with proponents of democracy... oh, wait a second!
Trump, Putin, Erdogan, bin Salman... what do they ALL have in common? They certainly all like each others, and emulate the same practices...
Trump, Putin, Erdogan, bin Salman... what do they ALL have in common? They certainly all like each others, and emulate the same practices...
39
Outing of incompetent Nayef shows that Saudi campaign against Daesh/ISIL, Muslim Brotherhood, and Iran is not going well. But it will likely go worse under untested mercurial Salman.
With Iran-Saudi and US-Russia rivalry rife in the Middle East, and Saudi fate in young hands, the ME future is a foregone conclusion.
This move is also classical Islam. Saudi Arabia continues 1400 years history of dynastic rule - father following son in Sunni Kaliphates or Monarchies in futile pursuit of gore, glory, conquest, and colonialism, just to live off other people's money (OPM) by imposing Tariffs (Arabic word of Kaliphate origin) and controlling world trade. The Kaliphate finally closed the Silk Road and starved Europe until they found new routes to Asia (and new lands as bonus). Maggie Thatcher famously said the trouble with OPM is that it soon runs out, and it did.
WIth the rise of Daesh/ISIL, and in-fighting between Sunni Turks, Saudis, Egyptians, the writing for the House of Saud, and their version of Islam in general, is on the wall. China's revival of the New Silk Road can only happen by Sunni control of that strategic area coming to an inglorious end. It has been a long 1,400 year long run.
But why are we the West on the wrong side of history?
With Iran-Saudi and US-Russia rivalry rife in the Middle East, and Saudi fate in young hands, the ME future is a foregone conclusion.
This move is also classical Islam. Saudi Arabia continues 1400 years history of dynastic rule - father following son in Sunni Kaliphates or Monarchies in futile pursuit of gore, glory, conquest, and colonialism, just to live off other people's money (OPM) by imposing Tariffs (Arabic word of Kaliphate origin) and controlling world trade. The Kaliphate finally closed the Silk Road and starved Europe until they found new routes to Asia (and new lands as bonus). Maggie Thatcher famously said the trouble with OPM is that it soon runs out, and it did.
WIth the rise of Daesh/ISIL, and in-fighting between Sunni Turks, Saudis, Egyptians, the writing for the House of Saud, and their version of Islam in general, is on the wall. China's revival of the New Silk Road can only happen by Sunni control of that strategic area coming to an inglorious end. It has been a long 1,400 year long run.
But why are we the West on the wrong side of history?
5
One Kim Jong-un was enough. Youth, abrasiveness are overvalued
16
In parallel with the US media obsession with the value and wisdom of the "youth vote".
Maybe Crown Prince Jared can hang out with Crown Prince Mohammed - perhaps on the $500 million yacht that Mohammed bought a Russian billionaire tycoon on a whim - while Prince Jared brings peace to the Middle East next week. They can discuss how much they have in common: thirty-somethings with zero personal accomplishments in their lives based on merit, infinitely better at faking results than delivering results, being an embarrassment when speaking publicly (heard Prince Jared for the first time this week and now understand why he avoids speaking in public), everything they have is based on the family they happened to be born into and nepotism (in Prince Jared's case, you can add being married to Princess Ivanka), being the favorite of the ruler.
And that peace mission that Prince Jared is leading requires the King Netanyahu (who once slept in Prince Jared's bedroom while visiting the Kushner Clan) and Israel to more openly (they have done so more discreetly for decades) ally with the Sunni autocrats/dictators like Pharaoh Sisi of Egypt who oppress their people, and absolute monarchies (in the 21st century, really?!?) like Saudi Arabia whose toxic poison that is Wahhabism (18th century invention) destroys moderate Islam (the dominant form from 7th to 19th centuries) and forms the ideological foundation for Al Qaeda and ISIS. While Emperor Trump fiddles/tweets.
And that peace mission that Prince Jared is leading requires the King Netanyahu (who once slept in Prince Jared's bedroom while visiting the Kushner Clan) and Israel to more openly (they have done so more discreetly for decades) ally with the Sunni autocrats/dictators like Pharaoh Sisi of Egypt who oppress their people, and absolute monarchies (in the 21st century, really?!?) like Saudi Arabia whose toxic poison that is Wahhabism (18th century invention) destroys moderate Islam (the dominant form from 7th to 19th centuries) and forms the ideological foundation for Al Qaeda and ISIS. While Emperor Trump fiddles/tweets.
21
I don't think the comparison to Ivanka and Jared are fair. Prince bin Salman seems to at least have a few years experience working in the government. You don't have to agree with what he does, but he is probably not hopelessly incompetent..
16
That remains to be seen.
By referring to Saudi Arabia here, and elsewhere, as a 'key' or 'crucial' ally is a failure of reporting by the NYT to be consistent in acknowledging the human rights abuses of this nation including funding of terrorist organizations (all the way to the top of the royal family), a vast network of secret police, abuse of women and beheads people annually at rates equal, if not greater, than our ISIS enemies (and often for the same reasons as them!). NYT where is your backbone, your consistency in reporting to the people who our 'crucial ally' truly is?
6
If Saudi Arabia was compared to a large company, then Mr Salman would sadly be the most unsuitable successor. He has little or no experience in public, private or military service. His few accomplishments in the last two years are a brutal genocidal war on its poor neighbor Yemen which is long overdue for a UN investigation; incoherent intervention in Aramco which is just about the only part of the Saudi economy which functions smoothly and is somewhat free of corruption; and the ratcheting up of tensions with close neighbors such as Iran and Qatar with whom Saudi Arabia has to get along for the long run, once again with few if any clear goals or results.
We are about to get an inexperienced, trigger happy, impulsive Prince as the absolute ruler of the world's largest oil exporter which has funded extremist ideology throughout the Islamic world and elsewhere. It reminds me of a nasty version of medieval monarchs in the twenty first century!
If President Trump has any influence (and he has plenty) then he could ensure that instead of a young inexperienced absolute monarch the Kingdom shifts towards democracy, women's rights, human rights and more tolerant schools of Islam.
We are about to get an inexperienced, trigger happy, impulsive Prince as the absolute ruler of the world's largest oil exporter which has funded extremist ideology throughout the Islamic world and elsewhere. It reminds me of a nasty version of medieval monarchs in the twenty first century!
If President Trump has any influence (and he has plenty) then he could ensure that instead of a young inexperienced absolute monarch the Kingdom shifts towards democracy, women's rights, human rights and more tolerant schools of Islam.
6
Oli, Maybe Trump could invite him for a round of golf and discuss the human rights, democracy, women's rights, and more tolerant schools of Islam you mention.
For any dictator to appoint a young kid to be the next ruler is living in the past and very dangerous - North Korea comes to mind.
8
""“We won’t wait for the battle to be in Saudi Arabia. Instead, we’ll work so that the battle is for them in Iran.”"
And then he sent his ISIS terrorist pals to Tehran killing scores.
And then he sent his ISIS terrorist pals to Tehran killing scores.
8
As long as he provides cheap oil, buys $billions of weapons from us, opposes Iran, supports Israel, we will forgive everything else - an absolute monarchy in the 21st century, targeting Yemeni civilians for bombing, one the worst human rights records on the planet, one of the worst records for women's rights (can be stoned by death! or beheaded! for adultery; do not have equal voting rights; they still cannot drive!) for LBGTQ rights (can be executed!) for religious minorities (Shia and Sufi and all non-Wahhabi persecuted, even executed; no churches or synagogues; Jews banned without special visa), public beheadings, hands cut off, flogging, the petrodollar fueled Wahhabism that is destroying Islam and forms ideological foundation for AQ and ISIS. So welcome Crown Prince Mohammed, you will fit right in.
17
"And it came as Saudi Arabia was already grappling with low oil prices, and intensifying hostilities both with Iran and in its own circle of Sunni Arab states."
You left out its murderous aggression against Yemen, 10,000 battle deaths, 10,000 additional children died from lack of clean water or medicine UNICEF (NYT March 30, 2016) and now a plague of cholera, 100,000 cases and so far 900 deaths. M.B.S. has a huge rule in this. Perhaps the NYT could call for the International Criminal Court to look into this. More about the Saudi regime at: SaudiUS.org
You left out its murderous aggression against Yemen, 10,000 battle deaths, 10,000 additional children died from lack of clean water or medicine UNICEF (NYT March 30, 2016) and now a plague of cholera, 100,000 cases and so far 900 deaths. M.B.S. has a huge rule in this. Perhaps the NYT could call for the International Criminal Court to look into this. More about the Saudi regime at: SaudiUS.org
12
Installing family members ahead of established experience into positions of power? Who does that sound like? I guess he can't trust anybody but family members either to get behind any questionable issues either. The only difference is a King can take the direct route while our King has to go the long way around using lawyers and demanding loyalty from his ambitious sycophants.
5
"If Mohammed bin Salman succeeds his father, he could rule the kingdom for many decades."
Take it from me — he will self destruct!
Take it from me — he will self destruct!
6
The butcher o Yemen.
7
Thank you, Stanley, for pointing out the squeeze Prince Mohammed and bin Zayed are putting on Qatar. I do so heartily suspect that it is more the market share of oil than the 'supporting of terrorists'. After all, SA is the greatest direct and indirect funder of ISIS, IS, ISIL, that there is.
Thank you, also, for mentioning "Saudi Vision 2030", the targeted date of when SA will become fully solar/wind. They know very well that their oil and gas will be gone by then and are preparing for that day.
America isn't half so bright as it thinks it is. It is bought and paid for by "Defense" which wants its trillions. A national program to free the US from foreign and domestic gas and oil? Never. We would rather blather about "coal" and getting "coal jobs" back that alert the nation that, yup, in about 10 more years it will all be fracked out, worldwide. Don't be counting on Putin's stash up in the North Sea. What he'll be charging will be "HUUUGGGEEE!"
Thanks for nothing, Donnie.
Thank you, even though, in truth, your article made my flesh crawl.... or was that just someone walking over my grave....?
Thank you, also, for mentioning "Saudi Vision 2030", the targeted date of when SA will become fully solar/wind. They know very well that their oil and gas will be gone by then and are preparing for that day.
America isn't half so bright as it thinks it is. It is bought and paid for by "Defense" which wants its trillions. A national program to free the US from foreign and domestic gas and oil? Never. We would rather blather about "coal" and getting "coal jobs" back that alert the nation that, yup, in about 10 more years it will all be fracked out, worldwide. Don't be counting on Putin's stash up in the North Sea. What he'll be charging will be "HUUUGGGEEE!"
Thanks for nothing, Donnie.
Thank you, even though, in truth, your article made my flesh crawl.... or was that just someone walking over my grave....?
11
The Great Showman,
T-Rex, first of his name sent for Jefferson Beauregard
and asked:
"Can I do this with Pence and Incitatus Kushner?"
T-Rex, first of his name sent for Jefferson Beauregard
and asked:
"Can I do this with Pence and Incitatus Kushner?"
1
Bashar al-Assad of Syria is a monarch, the son of Hafez al-Assad.
Kim Jong-un of North Korea is a monarch, the son of Kim Jong-il.
The Kims and the Assads show us how monarchies come into existence. A brute seizes a country by force and considers it his property, which he keeps in his family.
The Bible tells us that monarchy is a bad idea:
"And ye shall cry out in that day because of your king" (I Samuel 8:18)
Kim Jong-un of North Korea is a monarch, the son of Kim Jong-il.
The Kims and the Assads show us how monarchies come into existence. A brute seizes a country by force and considers it his property, which he keeps in his family.
The Bible tells us that monarchy is a bad idea:
"And ye shall cry out in that day because of your king" (I Samuel 8:18)
23
Thank heavens that our own leaders don't appoint their inexperienced and unprepared sons and sons-in-law to positions of major responsibility...
162
I'm enjoying your quip while gritting my teeth. The truth is painful.
1
don't forget daughters, please
Beyond the royal succession there lies a more substantial issue of transition from the repressive monarchy to the democratisation of the Saudi polity.
3
So, an illegitimate leader has appointed his son to replace him, and some are hoping the next king will be more progressive than the last, even though his power is based on a concept that has been obsolete in the modern world since about 1776, when a functional government was established with a leader chosen by the people rather than "God".
Perhaps by revamping the economy the prince will actually move it towards a meritocracy and create a thriving middle class, rendering his own title obsolete. Than he can run for office.
One is allowed to dream.
Perhaps by revamping the economy the prince will actually move it towards a meritocracy and create a thriving middle class, rendering his own title obsolete. Than he can run for office.
One is allowed to dream.
60
People already see Jared Kushner as King Trump's choice as crowned prince over his own sons, Eric and Donald Jr.. This decision by Trump's Saudi homologue is in perfect step with the new world order. Just ask Putin.
99
bin Salman is very much a modernist, but he seems also to be the (or at least one of the) main proponents of the war in Yemen, and quite likely the recent anti-Iran initiatives among Gulf Arab states. People should be wary of his apparent rapport with the current White House residency.
42
is he a modernist as far as rights for women goes?
or a rapproachment with Israel?
or a rapproachment with Israel?
1
The son (or sometimes, the son-in-law) also rises.
67
It is an interesting contrast to contrast this bunch of rich non elected rulers in Saudi Arabia with the poor non elected rulers of Cuba. The oil rich Saudi administration established during oil exploration of the area are great allies of the United States. They hand down power to siblings who are directly connected to the military. Cuba on the other hand is a poor Carribean island alienated then isolated by the United State after establishing its government on its own and nationalizing assets of United States citizens. It handed down rule to the apparently non militarist brother of the former ruller. Cuba is not an ally of the United States. It really has nothing that the United States economy can use other than sunny beaches and possibly land for golf courses. These arrangements have gone on for decades and mirror the dichotomy of society in the United States. The gap has once again continued to widen.
27
Excellent points that only serve to illustrate the hypocrisy of U.S.policy towards Cuba. Trump reaffirms a failed policy towards Cuba because of its human rights record yet embraces Saudi rulers in a kingdom. The notion of kings and princes seems absurd in this day and age yet there it is. It is time to establish a full and working relationship with Cuba and let the Cubans sort out their form of governance and stop lecturing them about human rights even as we embrace kings and princes who can order a head to be chopped off with no more than a decree.
9
Just like our very own Jared bin Trump. They wish.
58
He'll get bogged down in Yemen (while destroying that country).
14
Strange that this article doesn't discuss the previous method of determining crown princes. The current king is the last of his generation and the title was passed from brother to brother in fairly orderly succession for decades. The assumption for a while was that the next generation would take over following King Salman in some form of respect for seniority. That was not the case when the former crown prince Muqrin was replaced by a younger Muhammad bin Nayef but this overturns the apple cart completely by establishing Salman's branch as dominant.
12
It will be interesting to see his attitude toward empowerment of women, who must wear black in that sizzling climate, and cannot drive. Making them equals, or close, would double the talent pool.
At least now they can go in public without a male "chaperone", and can uncover their face. But many work areas tend to be completely segregated.
At least now they can go in public without a male "chaperone", and can uncover their face. But many work areas tend to be completely segregated.
30
Empowerment of women? Not happening anytime soon. If you look at most Islamic countries (except for a few modern enlightened ones) they keep their womenfolk uneducated, unemployed and at home thus easier to control. When half the population is unable to question their place in society, you will rule indefinitely or as long as you can keep them under control.
1
Saudi Arabia is a disaster waiting to happen. Irrespective of which member of the Royal family leads , Wahhabism rules. They spread their hate of Westerners , Shias through their armed wings ISIS , AlQuaeda etc.
bin Salaman with his hatred of Iran and Shias in general will further enable ISIS and Alquaeda.
His total disregard for human life is tragically seen in the slaughter of civilians in Yeman . Soon Wahhibism , the youth of Saudi Arabiia will turn on the royal family , a situation we have seen before in Iran
The USA must distance itself from Saudi Arabia and focus on building energy independence .
Encouragement of conservation , intensification of renewable energy , even converting our national truck fleet to natural gas will enable energy independence and create jobs here in the USA.
bin Salaman with his hatred of Iran and Shias in general will further enable ISIS and Alquaeda.
His total disregard for human life is tragically seen in the slaughter of civilians in Yeman . Soon Wahhibism , the youth of Saudi Arabiia will turn on the royal family , a situation we have seen before in Iran
The USA must distance itself from Saudi Arabia and focus on building energy independence .
Encouragement of conservation , intensification of renewable energy , even converting our national truck fleet to natural gas will enable energy independence and create jobs here in the USA.
116
" ... Saudi Arabia is a disaster waiting to happen .."
It has happened already.
It has happened already.
3
This is a game-changing decision for the future of Saudi Arabia and the Middle East.
In a country where rulers usually ascend to power in their late 70's, Mr Salman could rule Saudi Arabia for the next 50 to 60 years. Will the other members of the Saud family agree to this? It seems like now they don't have a choice. The King and his son have chosen the perfect timing. They have taken advantage of the external crisis created with Qatar.
The crown prince is apparently the one responsible for manufacturing the crisis with Qatar. More than 3 weeks after the total embargo, Saudi Arabia has not offered any official justification. Like he did with Yemen, the prince rushed in, with no way out.
Based on his Yemen and Qatar decisions, Prince Salman who in 2 to 3 years will be Saudi Arabia new king has shown us what type of Ruler he will be. The volatile and dangerous Middle East doesn't need that.
You think the Middle East is in trouble now, wait until Prince Salman becomes King.
In a country where rulers usually ascend to power in their late 70's, Mr Salman could rule Saudi Arabia for the next 50 to 60 years. Will the other members of the Saud family agree to this? It seems like now they don't have a choice. The King and his son have chosen the perfect timing. They have taken advantage of the external crisis created with Qatar.
The crown prince is apparently the one responsible for manufacturing the crisis with Qatar. More than 3 weeks after the total embargo, Saudi Arabia has not offered any official justification. Like he did with Yemen, the prince rushed in, with no way out.
Based on his Yemen and Qatar decisions, Prince Salman who in 2 to 3 years will be Saudi Arabia new king has shown us what type of Ruler he will be. The volatile and dangerous Middle East doesn't need that.
You think the Middle East is in trouble now, wait until Prince Salman becomes King.
175
Does one really call him "Mr. Salman" or "Prince Salman"? As I understand it, "bin" is "son of," and he is "Mohammed bin Salman" because his given name is Mohammed and he is the son of King Salman. The article calls him "Price Mohammed," which I believe is correct.
1
" ... Mr Salman could rule Saudi Arabia for the next 50 to 60 years .."
A bold prediction, given that with rise of Turkey and Iran against Saudi hegemony, will the kingdom survive another decade, nay even half?
A bold prediction, given that with rise of Turkey and Iran against Saudi hegemony, will the kingdom survive another decade, nay even half?
2
Yaw. Who cares.
"Prince"? Do not tell me you still believe in princess kissing frogs too.
"Prince"? Do not tell me you still believe in princess kissing frogs too.
1
Saudi Arabia is known for being ruled by a frail gerontocracy. The reshuffle that ushers in a younger generation of leaders is per se not a bad idea. The danger is that they lack the experience and acumen to handle the most intricate conflicts of the region. The new crown prince, Mohammed bin Salman is known for his impetuousness.
With some 22,000 members, competition is a way of life in the world’s largest ruling family. The succession to the throne was set in motion by the Kingdom’s founder, Abdul Aziz Al Saud, as he sought to secure the role of his 43 sons as future rulers. From the outset, power was grouped on the basis of coalitions of full brothers, the most significant of whom were the “Sudeiri Seven,” Abdul Aziz’s seven sons with his wife Hissah Al Sudeiri. The seven Sudeiri princes, in order of age - Fahd, Sultan, Naif, Abdul Rahman,Turki, Salman and Ahmad.
King Salman and his younger brother Ahmad are the only surviving members of the power Sudeiri clan. The deposed crown pince, Mohammed bin Nayef is the son of the late Prince Naif. Most likely when Mohammed succeeds his father, King Salman, he would have no qualms about appointing his own son to be crown prince, instead of one of his brothers or cousins.
With some 22,000 members, competition is a way of life in the world’s largest ruling family. The succession to the throne was set in motion by the Kingdom’s founder, Abdul Aziz Al Saud, as he sought to secure the role of his 43 sons as future rulers. From the outset, power was grouped on the basis of coalitions of full brothers, the most significant of whom were the “Sudeiri Seven,” Abdul Aziz’s seven sons with his wife Hissah Al Sudeiri. The seven Sudeiri princes, in order of age - Fahd, Sultan, Naif, Abdul Rahman,Turki, Salman and Ahmad.
King Salman and his younger brother Ahmad are the only surviving members of the power Sudeiri clan. The deposed crown pince, Mohammed bin Nayef is the son of the late Prince Naif. Most likely when Mohammed succeeds his father, King Salman, he would have no qualms about appointing his own son to be crown prince, instead of one of his brothers or cousins.
22
Prince Mohammed bin Salman:Prince Jared:Princess Ivanka?
126
So basically he is the Jared Kushner of Saudi Arabia?
242
Oy Vey. I suppose there is a contest on whether this Saudi Arabia son, or the Trump son-in-law can be "the one" to be credited for the Future Middle East Peace Contract. Looks like another boy has entered "the Messiah" contest!
30
Don't forget Ivanka. She's Trump's crown princess.
1
"Credited for the Future East Peace Contract "?! Or responsible for escalating tensions in the mideast, and the increase of terrorism, including that which
will reach our shores in the United States ?
will reach our shores in the United States ?
1
Let's see - absolute monarchy, nepotism, inexperience, unpredictability, questionable advisors - no wonder Trump prefers the Saudis to our democratic allies!
256
We have democratic allies in the middle east? Aside from Israel who are they?
33
Hey, the Saudis are America's ally (when it comes to selling 100 billion dollars worth of arms)!
2
Iran comes the closest, friend no, Bad!
Jefferson, Lafayette, and Paine et al are doing backflips in their graves over the International Joker Trump running to go make nice with this insane Theological Oligarchy in Saudi Arabia. Every decent humanist on who ever lived mocks us from the beyond. How about we stop teaching US history in public schools seeing that it's ignored anyway.