Please don't insult the dads on father's day or you'll push even more people to Trump & Co. Make it a parent/child event and make it clear that any adult caregiver or relative will be welcomed with open arms.
7
I grew upon Los Angeles in the 40s and never heard of such a thing
2
Agree this is somewhat creepy. Possibly shapes some little girls in unhealthy ways. Moreover, if the goal is to promote healthy interactive relationships between Dads and daughters, why not have regularly scheduled school activities more frequently with an emphasis on communication and family teamwork?
6
If we had to do everything in this world with the idea that we would could only do things that didn't offend anyone, then almost no fun would be allowed. Yes, some kids might feel left out because they don't have a dad to take them, or some dad's might feel dad cause he only has sons. That is sad and unfair. But life is that way and you can always look for someone worse off than you that would feel even worse. Such as: some kids are born with birth defects and can't dance. Should we not allow dances? Same kids might not be able to camp or go on a hike. Well, then we can't have those either. My daughters happen to like practicing and pretending
to be an adult for a night with their dad and grandpa. Its completely innocent.
No one is thinking that its anything close to a date, yuck. The dad's hang out in the corner and talk sports and work, and the girls run around and dance. Some girls we know don't like to get dressed up. That's great for them too. Isn't it great that we all have options for fun things. If you don't think this event is fun, then don't go. But please don't feel entitled to judge it so harshly. There are far worse things in this world to be concerned about.
to be an adult for a night with their dad and grandpa. Its completely innocent.
No one is thinking that its anything close to a date, yuck. The dad's hang out in the corner and talk sports and work, and the girls run around and dance. Some girls we know don't like to get dressed up. That's great for them too. Isn't it great that we all have options for fun things. If you don't think this event is fun, then don't go. But please don't feel entitled to judge it so harshly. There are far worse things in this world to be concerned about.
10
Thank goodness I missed this faux prom/faux date - with my father! either because it went to school in late 40s/50s or lived in Massachusetts. My father was a hero to me, a strict dad, a factory worked doing everything to be sure I had a better education. We went to Mass together every Sunday as a family; he took my sister and me out trick or treating. But no dances as my escort, my faux date. Plus reading the costs, for some dinner, flowers, a tux, prom dresses...and was this every year?, not just say 9th grade, my family did not have such money. We had neither a car nor TV.
What my father, with his 6th grade education and then into the mills background, did give me was meeting my date before real prom, a curfew that took no prisoners, a college education, values that lead me to the Peace Corps and then decades of service as a US Diplomat. And walked me down the aisle, both of us all dressed up, as my real escort at my real wedding. Thanks Dad.
What my father, with his 6th grade education and then into the mills background, did give me was meeting my date before real prom, a curfew that took no prisoners, a college education, values that lead me to the Peace Corps and then decades of service as a US Diplomat. And walked me down the aisle, both of us all dressed up, as my real escort at my real wedding. Thanks Dad.
15
Joan : Thanks to your dad for raising such an insightful and appreciative daughter. We need many more of his caliber ..and yours ..today.
4
There is something creepy about father/daughter dances. Why do we want fathers and daughters to have a mock "date"? Yes, dads and daughters should do things together and bond, but why should that activity be in a date like atmosphere? So happy these did not exist in the 1970s.
15
Please tell me this will go the way of the boys aisle and girls aisle in the toy stores. Luckily I never has to attend this dance as a little girl. Hopefully I was skiing or playing in the fort in the woods instead.
8
In the 1950s my mother cajoled and badgered my father into "escorting" me to my one and only event of this kind. Having another "father figure" take me was out of the question as doing so would "embarrass" my violent and abusive alcoholic "daddy." Six decades and thousands of dollars of therapy later, the memory of this "bonding" experience still makes Big Nina nauseated and Little Nina jealous.
4
I'd be upset if my kid's school stopped having kids make a Father's Day card, but not if they did away with one of these dances. Yes, some families look different. The thing is, are kids dealing with those differences more privately and individually, such as giving the Father's Day craft to an uncle back at home because dad's out of the picture, or publicly, at this big social event, when mom #2 escorts the little girl to the dance? Why does this even need to be a thing?
My daughter and son learn how a man treats a lady by watching how dad and other men in their lives treat women. That's how I learned, by observation, not by going to a dance with my father. Hate to be old-fashioned here, but when (and why) did these dances even start? Were events like these created because kids can't observe these behaviors at home anymore? For those who say it's educational, I only see the girls "learning" anything through these dances. When do boys learn how to treat a woman? When I was a kid, the tweens and teens went to school dances... with each other, not their parents.
My daughter and son learn how a man treats a lady by watching how dad and other men in their lives treat women. That's how I learned, by observation, not by going to a dance with my father. Hate to be old-fashioned here, but when (and why) did these dances even start? Were events like these created because kids can't observe these behaviors at home anymore? For those who say it's educational, I only see the girls "learning" anything through these dances. When do boys learn how to treat a woman? When I was a kid, the tweens and teens went to school dances... with each other, not their parents.
7
This will turn out to be a happy story, keep reading.
I was born in 1941 in Germany, my father was in Russia (WWII). I was nearly five when he got home and I called him uncle. Maybe I thought I was being polite to the stranger in my mothers bedroom..He treated me like I was not part of the family until I was about 16, when he decided to enforce a curfew that I was not aware of by hitting me so hard that I saw stars and heard my head crack.I told him at one point if he hit me again I would kill him, he believed me.
I got married very young, had a child 10 years later, wrote nice letters and sent pictures to my dad and when my husband and son and I moved to Germany when my son was 12 we took him to meet his Opa and it was instant love. Dad and I got along splendidly, I had a demanding job but I still took care of him, he had a big garden and cooked lunch for my son every day. It was not unusual to visit him on Friday only to find 39 heads of cabbage in crates that he had harvested to shred and freeze over the weekend. I made sauerkraut instead and he bought me a Porsche 911 out of gratitude. We enjoyed each other for several years until he had a stroke. He refused to go to the hospital so I took care of him at home for two weeks until he died peacefully holding my hand. (Germany has great docs that make house calls and nurses that assist people like me, so I can't take all the credit for his care). Happy Father's Day
I was born in 1941 in Germany, my father was in Russia (WWII). I was nearly five when he got home and I called him uncle. Maybe I thought I was being polite to the stranger in my mothers bedroom..He treated me like I was not part of the family until I was about 16, when he decided to enforce a curfew that I was not aware of by hitting me so hard that I saw stars and heard my head crack.I told him at one point if he hit me again I would kill him, he believed me.
I got married very young, had a child 10 years later, wrote nice letters and sent pictures to my dad and when my husband and son and I moved to Germany when my son was 12 we took him to meet his Opa and it was instant love. Dad and I got along splendidly, I had a demanding job but I still took care of him, he had a big garden and cooked lunch for my son every day. It was not unusual to visit him on Friday only to find 39 heads of cabbage in crates that he had harvested to shred and freeze over the weekend. I made sauerkraut instead and he bought me a Porsche 911 out of gratitude. We enjoyed each other for several years until he had a stroke. He refused to go to the hospital so I took care of him at home for two weeks until he died peacefully holding my hand. (Germany has great docs that make house calls and nurses that assist people like me, so I can't take all the credit for his care). Happy Father's Day
6
The NYT could have written a story on Father's Day on the positive impact Father's have on their children. Scientists, Doctors and Educator's all agree that the best developed most successful children are those who had a father in their lives.
Why couldn't you focus on the positives on Father's Day? It feels like an attempt to devalue Father's Day. I would bet that a small minority of school districts still even have these dances. You went looking for a controversy instead of appealing to the majority of us who celebrate our dads and cherish them.
Why couldn't you focus on the positives on Father's Day? It feels like an attempt to devalue Father's Day. I would bet that a small minority of school districts still even have these dances. You went looking for a controversy instead of appealing to the majority of us who celebrate our dads and cherish them.
8
I grew up in the 50s and was lucky to have a wonderful dad, but we never attended such an event because they simply did not exist. Could the events today be part of effort to take us back to a more "innocent" (read: prefeminist) time?
As others have pointed out, the quasi-romantic aspect seems slightly creepy, and more than slightly for girls whose dads have molested them.
As to why there is no mother-son dance, I suspect it's because such an arrangement would up-end our idea of the appropriate power differential vis a vis parent/child, male/female, like a romantic film where the actress is taller or older* than the actor.
*Defined in Hollywood as younger than the actor by anything less than 20 years.
As others have pointed out, the quasi-romantic aspect seems slightly creepy, and more than slightly for girls whose dads have molested them.
As to why there is no mother-son dance, I suspect it's because such an arrangement would up-end our idea of the appropriate power differential vis a vis parent/child, male/female, like a romantic film where the actress is taller or older* than the actor.
*Defined in Hollywood as younger than the actor by anything less than 20 years.
6
Oh for heaven's sake! You're over thinking this one. I suppose all those opposed are also opposed to the father/daughter dance at the daughter's wedding? Also, perhaps the mother/son dance?
Contrary to the media, the majority of "married couples" in this country are still of the opposite sex. I don't really care how those of the same sex handle this - do whatever they choose and and makes them comfortable.
Contrary to the media, the majority of "married couples" in this country are still of the opposite sex. I don't really care how those of the same sex handle this - do whatever they choose and and makes them comfortable.
7
My daughter's dad died when she was five. When her kindergarten did a dad/daughter dance, just months after her dad's death, she begged me to take her. What a mistake! She was so sad to see all the other girls with their dads, so she became angry with me for not being her dad. We both ended up in tears. If I had it to go over again, I'm not sure I'd have taken her (but you sort of stumble through those sorts of things when you're trying to do your best to be both parents to your child.). At this point (ten years on), I guess I really don't see a whole lot of good that comes from functions like this. Life is just too complicated to try to make it fit into outdated paradigms.
11
How utterly ironic this story is on Father's Day. Just another way to relegate the role of a Father to some gender less almost reviled role. Well this is one guy who went to one of these dances. I actually assumed my "role " in my wonderful daughter's life and I guess she turned out ok if she graduated from Princeton and is working on a PhD at the University of Chicago. Why is there this endless assault on those of us who just happen to be traditionalists and just try to do something nice for our daughters ? Guess I should let somebody else walk her down the aisle since that's to stereotypic a gender role.
13
Maybe because it's hurtful when kids who don't have dads get left out of things like this. There are many other ways for dads to have special time with their daughters ... that don't need to be school-based ... where the fatherless kids don't have to feel excluded because all their friends have dads. I hope that one of the things you taught your amazing daughter is that it isn't always about her or you. Be as traditionalist as you want, but do it in a way that doesn't rip the scab off of someone else's kid's broken heart. Have a little empathy.
10
re the ACLU - does that mean no valentine's day dances if you don't have a valentine ? does it ever end? having a 'family dance' sounds great to me.
4
Imagine how a child who was subjected to sexual abuse by her father would feel with him as her "first date."
9
Father/daughter dances are leftovers from a time when fathers where not expected to be involved in their children's lives, especially not their daughter's. By having a father/daughter dance, it somehow implies that being with your own father is "special," as in "something that doesn't happen normally." That's kind of sad. And, it is also sad to make a fatherless child feel left out -- even if she can bring her uncle or her mom.
Why is this still a thing?
Why is this still a thing?
8
These are not a thing in Australia thank goodness. The sexual overtones are creepy....your father being "your first date" and girls being dressed up like princesses - because being good looking and on the arm of a man is all you should aspire to?! Father-daughter bonding should not require a single social event. It should be a daily occurrence. My father showed me this. How? Because he worked 7 days a week on building sites...but even when he'd come home exhausted, he'd tell my mother to sit down and relax. Then he'd feed us, bathe us and read us stories or play with us.
9
Does the father still walk the bride down the aisle and give her away to another man in Australia? Seems creepy right? And the parents dance at a wedding is so hurtful to those in attendance who got divorced...I think we should do away with weddings!
2
As someone whose father dies when I was 5, I'm glad these dances are being done away with. It's devastating to a child to be excluded from something because his or her father is deceased.
7
Folks,
When does it stop ?
If you have two Mommies, go to the Mommy/Child Dance.
If you have two Dads, to to the Dad/Child Dance.
People are starving to death, cannot get necessary medical care,
wars lasting more than a decade are still being fought...
Take the things in life that need to be taken seriously, seriously
and don't even report this wisp - of a - willow.
When does it stop ?
If you have two Mommies, go to the Mommy/Child Dance.
If you have two Dads, to to the Dad/Child Dance.
People are starving to death, cannot get necessary medical care,
wars lasting more than a decade are still being fought...
Take the things in life that need to be taken seriously, seriously
and don't even report this wisp - of a - willow.
12
Another Father's Day article with a negative spin. Thanks again, NYT.
12
Add another dance to the calendar. Do not do away with the Father Daughter dance. This is just another example of how things have got out of control in our society.
Not to discount other types of families at all, but there are many positive traditions which do not need to be changed to suit today's environment.
Not to discount other types of families at all, but there are many positive traditions which do not need to be changed to suit today's environment.
7
I would rather have read an article on how important father's our to a child's development as a kid, and to their success as an adult. Father's Day should have articles on how Dad's make us all better. Not everything should be a controversy.
10
Father daughter dances need to be changed to family dances. Some families only haves sons, some children only have mothers or grandparents and some children only have foster parents. If you are special in a child's life you deserve a dance with that child.
5
You can never take all the pain away for everybody all the time. Suppose we call this "Family Dance?" MY pain was seeing my children, who had a deadbeat dad in the men's section of the shul (we attended an Orthodox synagogue) standing alone on our holidays, while none of the men thought of asking them to sit next to them, or grab a siddur (prayerbook) for them. While I realize many people would want to remarry after a traumatic divorce, and besides, not everybody would be able to find a new partner who is willing to take on his wife's children, I did. My husband became a wonderful (second) father to my sons. This doesn't take away the pain 100 %-a stepfather is not the same as you own father, no matter how good or loving- I remain convinced that my boys are doing so well because they had a stable father figure in the home, ALONG, of course with a very loving and caring Mom! We can deny uncomfortable truths, but the statistics prove it-kids do better when they grow up in a two parent-home. (I think that holds true for a two-parent-but same-sex parent household, too, but I'm not sure.) I think it is good thing to emphasize the merit of having a loving father in your life, while making room for those whose fathers have passed away or who have two-or NO- dads, for instance. We can be sensitive to the wishes of people who don't fit the traditional mold, but why break the mold altogether or admit that it is of value to the emotional and intellectual development of our children?
1
Sorry guys, I accidentally left out the very signifant word "not", read "NOT many people would want to remarry after a traumatic divorce". And in the last sentence, please strike "admit" and read "deny" instead, as in "or DENY it is of value". Im not a native speaker and sometimes I make mistakes.
I guess we should also stopped celebrating father's day since many down not who or where their father is.
5
" “I don’t understand why the relationship between the daughter and the dad is somehow the chosen relationship to nurture,” she said." Seriously?
So many women complain of having had distant or physically or emotionally absent or unappreciative fathers.
I feel so privileged to have had a very present, nurturing, loving, supportive, accepting father who had high academic expectations for me.
There was no such thing as a father-daughter dance where I was growing up. I have no idea whether that would have been a good or bad thing, but I can't understand why some people can't understand why there would be.
So many women complain of having had distant or physically or emotionally absent or unappreciative fathers.
I feel so privileged to have had a very present, nurturing, loving, supportive, accepting father who had high academic expectations for me.
There was no such thing as a father-daughter dance where I was growing up. I have no idea whether that would have been a good or bad thing, but I can't understand why some people can't understand why there would be.
4
There is an easy fix. Make it the 'family dance' and tell the kids (boys and girls) that they can invite an adult family member of their choosing as their escort.
It's a good idea, for kids that are about to start going out on their own in a few years, to have a safe practice event to learn about social norms and how to behave in that kind of a setting.
The most valuable lesson to the boys and girls is that they get to start taking charge of their social lives. They can choose who they socialize with and have some control/responsibility for what happens.
It's a good idea, for kids that are about to start going out on their own in a few years, to have a safe practice event to learn about social norms and how to behave in that kind of a setting.
The most valuable lesson to the boys and girls is that they get to start taking charge of their social lives. They can choose who they socialize with and have some control/responsibility for what happens.
5
They should do away with father-daughter dances because they're creepy. Is there no other way to encourage and celebrate parents spending quality time with their kids other than creating some weird parallel to the daughter's coming years going to dances with a crush or date? Not all dances are romantic, but most of the ones I was forced to attend and those I see these days involve fancy clothes and even corsages or a nice dinner with their "date." Gross. Children should get their models for healthy relationships by watching their parents, not role-playing as a partner.
17
I lost my father at the age of 7 in 1989 from cancer. He was 38.
I remember my Mom arguing with the school administrators in the parking lot by the buses over the concept of the "father-daughter dance." For me, there was no nearby Uncle, Grandpa, or male "friend" to speak of. This tradition did nothing but make me feel excluded and my Mom feel inadequate.
Our bad luck shouldn't infringe on other families. I am happy to see that 28 years after my Dad's death, there is a movement to create a more inclusive event that nurtures parent-child bonding beyond some bizarre daughter/dad prom scenario that doesn't fit the modern (and in my case, 1980s) definition of "family."
I remember my Mom arguing with the school administrators in the parking lot by the buses over the concept of the "father-daughter dance." For me, there was no nearby Uncle, Grandpa, or male "friend" to speak of. This tradition did nothing but make me feel excluded and my Mom feel inadequate.
Our bad luck shouldn't infringe on other families. I am happy to see that 28 years after my Dad's death, there is a movement to create a more inclusive event that nurtures parent-child bonding beyond some bizarre daughter/dad prom scenario that doesn't fit the modern (and in my case, 1980s) definition of "family."
10
How about "Family Dance Night"?
8
Beautiful picture of father and daughter on this article; only the NYT would trash that for this click bait nonsense. My bad for falling for this author's (and paper's) sad hunger for clicks. I need a better filter. Please turn to SI.com for some inspiring pictures and videos of fathers and families posted by some of our sports heroes and smile. The world is a lot better than people who make a living profiting from selling division and envy and yes hate would like you to believe. and really how cool to be a kid and have Lebron James throwing water balloons at you!
8
This sounds like one of the early building blocks for a future argument against father's day (and probably mother's day).
Somebody please save us from ourselves.
Somebody please save us from ourselves.
17
Curiously enough, Donald Trump is strongly supporting Father-Daughter Dances, big league.
5
Good for him.
2
I got it, Dave. Thanks for the laugh.
Wait, there are still fathers? I thought they were made obsolete in this post-gender society.
That said, the idea of a father-daughter dance is almost as creepy as a purity ball
That said, the idea of a father-daughter dance is almost as creepy as a purity ball
12
I respect that family is a concept. I don't care about the gender of your parents. I could not care less about your gender. Regardless of this post-gender society, my father was a man and my mother was a woman. I loved them half as much as they loved me. These PEOPLE loved me and my siblings. I commend their service.
10
This is the best the NYT can come up with for Father's Day? I get that the NYT doesn't particularly care for anything heteronormative, but give me a break.
32
Why not both?
I find that it's very considerate for places to call them "Family Ball/Dance". Those who don't have fathers for whatever reason can still feel entirely included and not looking for a stand in or alternative.
On the same token, those fathers/daughters or mothers/sons going on a date are still more than welcome to call it that! Post it on Facebook, announce it out loud! What the event itself is called shouldn't have any impact on a special night for them.
I find that it's very considerate for places to call them "Family Ball/Dance". Those who don't have fathers for whatever reason can still feel entirely included and not looking for a stand in or alternative.
On the same token, those fathers/daughters or mothers/sons going on a date are still more than welcome to call it that! Post it on Facebook, announce it out loud! What the event itself is called shouldn't have any impact on a special night for them.
1
I'm all for positive events for any permutation of guardian and dependent. Since households with both parents present are scientifically proven to be a better environment for the child, we shouldn't alienate fathers or take away bonding events such as this. It is a nice move to have other guardians be included in such events, no matter the situation or sexual orientation.
3
Everyone should just realize that Father's aren't viewed as that important anymore because fewer and fewer people have them. That is a sad indictment on the prevailing culture in many communities in this country. Ironically, marriage is one of the few vehicles towards a better life, but the poor are becoming more blind to marriage. Marriage is bmore and more seen as a luxury of the well educated and affluent. Sayings bubble up, like "My baby's Daddy" or "I stay at such and such place". These are new and inventive ways for describing the family decay these individuals experience around them. Otherwise, they would have to say very clunky things like "I had a child with a man who is not committed to me or our child, I know this because he didn't take us into his home/hearth/etc, or didn't have one to offer" or "I have a chaotic life because my parents weren't there for me and didn't invest the emotional/financial capital necessary for my success in a knowledge economy, now I don't really have any set course in life and as such can't afford my own place, so I STAY on the couch over at such and such place". The reality is it's just too hard to raise a child with only one poor parent, (if you're rich, sure be as libertine as you want, your money will be a cushion).
11
We have now expanded the definition of family in this country and that is a good thing. That does not mean however that we abandon every positive past tradition simply because everybody cannot be stuffed under that one umbrella. Father's do count and the Father daughter dance is a good thing. Let's keep it!!!
25
Good comment, Marian. Thank you.
1
It should be, like, the cardboard cut-out of your favorite celebrity / daughter dance, or, the mom's friend from college / daughter dance.
Instead of the father-daughter dance, how about the imam-daughter dance, or sufi-daughter dance. Or like, the refugee-daughter dance.
That's all like, a lot more sensible, a lot more relevant.
I bet if this was for refugees or homeless families, though, then we'd all be like, "Oh yeah, they can have a father-daughter dance, that's really nice. Who dares stand in the way of funding for the father-daughter dance for homeless men and their daughters?" We wouldn't think it was anti-feminist at all. We'd remember that fathers are ok and important.
I just kinda don't like the synopsis under the headline. Seems a little wack.
That's all like, a lot more sensible, a lot more relevant.
I bet if this was for refugees or homeless families, though, then we'd all be like, "Oh yeah, they can have a father-daughter dance, that's really nice. Who dares stand in the way of funding for the father-daughter dance for homeless men and their daughters?" We wouldn't think it was anti-feminist at all. We'd remember that fathers are ok and important.
I just kinda don't like the synopsis under the headline. Seems a little wack.
5
As a survivor of father-daughter abuse, I have always thought these father-daughter dances creepily incestuous.
15
I went to an All Girls high schooling the Bronx in the early 70s. I hadn't thought about the 4 Pop Hops my dad and I attended to for a long time. These are happy days to look back on for me. I lucky enough to be able to go to with my dad. They were fun dances with no hint of sexuality. I'm sorry that something so innocent and nice has to be denigrated in our current culture. Sad there is all this sniping about this on Father's Day.
17
When I was raising my son in Columbia, Md, a wonderful place for families with literally catalogues of special programs offered every year, it struck me that there are many father-daughter teas and dances, and many father-son outings as well, plus a few mother-daughter events. But there were never, ever, any mother-son gatherings of any kind. Of course moms often offered to coach or run the boyscout troop, but the sense I got was this: of course, some of the reason was the tradition of fathers not being the child rearers, so these events developed to fill a void. But also I had the sense that fathers and children should be given special opportunities to "make memories" and be closer, while sons should separate from mothers as early as possible. If you don't think that's part of it, let me ask: if there were a mother-son dance, would you find that just a bit icky; if so, why is that? In one of the most full-of-events areas in the country, in 18 years, I never saw a single mother-son fishing trip or hike or anything else, in 18 years of raising my son. We danced in our kitchen, though, and cooked together, and weight-lifted together...we didn't need an event. But every time I saw one of these father-child things, I wondered why there were never any mother-son things.
24
I wish schools would get over the gender-specific activities that lock kids into roles from the 1950s. Our local elementary school does father/daughter dances which are the traditional dances described in this article and mother/son adventures with inflatable obstacle courses, climbing walls and ball pits. Every year our 4th and 5th grade girls, the majority of whom play sports, circulate a petition to open up both events to just be "family dance" and a "family adventure" night and every year the sponsoring organization says no. I've suggested they at least survey the school community to find out their preferences, but they want to keep the "tradition". And then they're surprised when only the Kinders-second graders show up at the dance. It's time to move into the 21st century and make these events about community--whatever that looks like and not about reinforcing stereotypes from a century ago. That way kids don't have to feel out of place if they show up with mom or dad or grandma or older brother or if little boys want to get in on some of the musical action. (And little girls can do the same if they aren't into the sparkly dress thing).
12
So what if a girl has two father's what is supposed to happen then? Choose between the two? Let's face it this is an outdated event and so are mother/son dances. Aside from gay and lesbian parents plenty of kids live with Grandma and Grandpa or some other guardian situation. Or it could be simply that one's dad is out of town or unable to attend. I think the PTA people turn this into an event for themselves and act as if it is meant for the kids.
4
I was happy to see that the most recommended comment was about what Tom Burns had to say - I had copied this part of his quote because it was the most insightful part of the article:
Tom Burns, 40, who lives outside Detroit - “She is going to learn about respect — how a woman should expect respect and admiration and support from a partner — by how I treat her mom, not me going to a faux prom with her.”
Let's all practice that - little eyes/ears are watching & listening.
Tom Burns, 40, who lives outside Detroit - “She is going to learn about respect — how a woman should expect respect and admiration and support from a partner — by how I treat her mom, not me going to a faux prom with her.”
Let's all practice that - little eyes/ears are watching & listening.
19
After our divorce, my children and I moved to this country from Spain; their father stayed in Spain. We'd never even heard of a father-daughter dance; it came as a surprise. My daughter's best friend's father actually wrote to my ex-husband (this was 20 years ago) and asked his permission to be the escort for both girls, which I thought was very charming and made my daughter feel not quite so left out. I expect my ex-husband found the whole thing a bit weird.
4
These events may seem harmless, but we do need to recognize that there are many different types of families out there. My husband died a few years ago, and events like this are painful for my kids. My daughter's school had a Father Daughter dance, and she refused to go, even though her grandfather or one of her uncles would have been happy to take her. It just made her feel different, which in middle school is not something any kid wants. If the event is promoted as a family event for kids to attend with an important person in their life, it is much easier on the kids involved.
7
My father died when I was 5 years old in 1956.
I was excluded from any and all "father" themed things in school. It still makes me sad even after 60 years.
I was excluded from any and all "father" themed things in school. It still makes me sad even after 60 years.
12
I feel you Anne. I bet your dad was a good father who loved you so much.
2
I'm recently retired from an all-girls' academy which very year held a Father-Daughter Dance. No father? Another male figure, sometimes a stepdad, sometimes grandfather or uncle, but usually it was Dad. No problem. There's always someone claiming "not politically correct" and it's too much.
Some who have commented claimed it's just for this area. So? A good friend who grew up in Georgia shared with me how she attended "antebellum" dances when in her teens. She loved dressing up for what was in her area, was her tradition.
Let's not agree to take everything away because it's unfamiliar, or someone calls it non-PC.
Some who have commented claimed it's just for this area. So? A good friend who grew up in Georgia shared with me how she attended "antebellum" dances when in her teens. She loved dressing up for what was in her area, was her tradition.
Let's not agree to take everything away because it's unfamiliar, or someone calls it non-PC.
12
And why in the world publish this on Father's Day?
8
My daughter's school has a father-daughter dance and I find the concept detestable because there are always children that will be left out, whether it's because they don't have a father or the money for outfits and admission.
Schools should not provide entertainment that excludes children,
Schools should not provide entertainment that excludes children,
16
Men and dads have been so demonized these days, it's hard to be a hero anymore, especially to a daughter. I do think the dad-daughter dance is outdated, but I used to go on a dad-daughter "dates" with my daughter when she was 5-10, and I do think it laid the groundwork and expectations of what a real date might entail: a quite conversation at a restaurant, maybe ice cream afterwards, some awesome memories. After all, there are so many "dates" that moms have with the girls, it's hard for dad to get any time alone with the girls. Everyone is so concerned with incest and pedophilia that a dad and daughter can't spend quality time alone anymore. I am glad I did. When my daughter comes home to visit, we still make time to go to a movie and chat; it's still our special time. Dads need so spend time alone with the kids, just like mom, both boys and girls. It's only natural.
13
I think it's wonderful that you used to take your daughter on dad -daughter
dates when she was 5-10.I'm wondering why you stopped taking her
on those dates when she was 10.
"Everyone is so concerned about pedophilia such that father and daughters
can't spend quality time alone together.
This is the first time I have heard that sentiment expressed.
I didn't have "dates " with my mom.
I wish I'd had some with my father. My father used to come home from
work in Manhattan, gulp down dinner, then head out to a board meeting
for one charitable organization or another Sunday mornings were also
devoted to philanthropic meetings. My father was also the Democratic Zone
leader for our area. He had little time for his five children.
I do treasure the times when my father took my younger brother and myself
to Rockaway Playland amusement park,and out for ice cream.
I think the only day I ever spent alone with. my father was the day my father drove me my Harvard interview. I did not get into Harvard, but it was one of the best
days of my life. My father took me out to eat afterwards,It was one of the few
times in my life that I had the opportunity to be alone with my father.I will treasure that day always.
My father died suddenly when he was 51,and I was 21, so there has been no time
to make up for lost time.
Your daughter is very fortunate to have you as a father. Happy Father's Day !
dates when she was 5-10.I'm wondering why you stopped taking her
on those dates when she was 10.
"Everyone is so concerned about pedophilia such that father and daughters
can't spend quality time alone together.
This is the first time I have heard that sentiment expressed.
I didn't have "dates " with my mom.
I wish I'd had some with my father. My father used to come home from
work in Manhattan, gulp down dinner, then head out to a board meeting
for one charitable organization or another Sunday mornings were also
devoted to philanthropic meetings. My father was also the Democratic Zone
leader for our area. He had little time for his five children.
I do treasure the times when my father took my younger brother and myself
to Rockaway Playland amusement park,and out for ice cream.
I think the only day I ever spent alone with. my father was the day my father drove me my Harvard interview. I did not get into Harvard, but it was one of the best
days of my life. My father took me out to eat afterwards,It was one of the few
times in my life that I had the opportunity to be alone with my father.I will treasure that day always.
My father died suddenly when he was 51,and I was 21, so there has been no time
to make up for lost time.
Your daughter is very fortunate to have you as a father. Happy Father's Day !
9
My father and I also went out for "dates", but it was simply called " our special day." We would go to an art exhibition, drinks and a full dinner, and a play afterwards; I still remember our own "Shakespeare in the Park", which, thankfully, did not involve anything political or a man dressed up as Donald Trump, but was simply The Midsummer Night's Dream in a magically illuminated woodsy park. We had long talks about what was important in life, boys/men and what to expect-and sometimes what to be careful about. Although they are still a lovely memory, what was important were and are not those once-a - year outings, special though they were, it was my father's consistent parenting, caring, and loving us throughout his entire life-which later included loving my brother's and my kids, too, with fierce devotion. My father as well as my mother were Holocaust survivors, but my mother's brother and her parents survived-my father's parents did not. He was a war orphan and he felt it very keenly, always saying "I have no family." That he became the father and pater familias of 2 kids and 9 grandchildren was the greatest joy of his life, and though he wasn't that good about expression his emotions, we always knew and felt that love and caring, nay that passion for family. Thank you, Dad-you passsed away a year ago but this one is for you! You gave me so much, and I still miss you so much. My father was not lucky, but I was. Your loss became our gain. Love always, your daughter.
5
I like the idea of the "daughter's dance" for those where a father is not available for whatever reason. Our son-in-law takes both daughters to the father-daughter dance at school and they are sooo happy to do so. And we live in the reflected glow of that joy.
5
Why do we have to take a stand on every minute event today? Both sides need to lighten up a little.
12
Reminds me of an article last year that said a town canceled its Santa parade because some people were not Christian and could be offended by Santa. If you are offended by Santa, you really need to get a life. Or just not go to the parade.
Have the dance. Let girls bring whatever male role model they like. Believe it or not, men actually do serve an important function in kids' lives.
Have the dance. Let girls bring whatever male role model they like. Believe it or not, men actually do serve an important function in kids' lives.
Why does everyone have to do the same thing? If there is an area where little girls want to dress up like princesses and dance with their fathers, then let them. If another area doesn't want to then don't. People who think this is creepy have a dirty mind. There is nothing creepy about the love of a father for his little girl or her love for her father. If a child has two mothers or two fathers, they can still attend or not. We don't have to eliminate traditions to accommodate a few, we just need to make adjustments so everyone feels welcome.
10
Exactly, Teddi!
Now I have no daughters, but two young granddaughters, so I haven't any direct experience , but these dances do call to my mind those 'purity balls' that caught press attention a few years ago, and that I find disturbingly creepy. So I can see all sorts of concerns people might have to innocent father-daughter dances, but I think the widening of participation when a family might not be quite traditional is a good step. Also parent/son dances are fine. And all sorts of other activities with family participation. Anything that promotes family whatever form it takes.
5
What mean-spirited and frankly - silly comments - creepy?
I guess next in the sights will be father-daughter dance at weddings.
I guess next in the sights will be father-daughter dance at weddings.
9
Today is nothing special. I just do what I need to do like every other Sunday. I am a father with two grown-up daughters. So I am a father every day. I don't need a special day to remind my daughters or to celebrate it. This is just for commerce. Pretty soon we will have a Uncle Day to celebrate to be an uncle if business decides we need something to cheer or spend.
10
I was a Girl Scout leader and the local GS community had a father-daughter dance. I asked if bringing a mom was okay because one girl's dad had recently died and the other leaders insisted she had to bring "an uncle or other male friend" Most single moms just don't have available guys they can ask to do such a thing for one night so I felt awful for the mom. The mom did ask her brother to leave work early, then the dance was cancelled anyway, and the mom yelled at me. It was horrible. I hope anyone planning such an event considers how difficult it is for many families!
10
when I was young (eons ago), my father didn't go to church. There was a father_daughter luncheon. Our family lawyer had two daughters but they were away at school. The luncheon was at a church I didn't go to regularly but for some reason I went to the luncheon. It was a meal and I was always in favor of eating.
I really loved the photo at the beginning of the article. I think lots of children like to get dressed up in costumes. My cousins and I did a lot of this in the summer when they visited. We also built forts in the barn with straw and hay bales. We have funny pictures to remind us.
I really loved the photo at the beginning of the article. I think lots of children like to get dressed up in costumes. My cousins and I did a lot of this in the summer when they visited. We also built forts in the barn with straw and hay bales. We have funny pictures to remind us.
1
Daughters and Dads have a special relationship.
Let's not mess that up to appease those who don't fit into the category or for the sake of political correctness.
Let's not mess that up to appease those who don't fit into the category or for the sake of political correctness.
16
Some people don't have fathers. My father died when he was young , and my four siblings and I were young. My school didn't have any father daughter dances, but if it did.I would have wanted the option of attending. It is painful to be left out when one is a child. Try thinking of the CHILDREN. I'm not referring to political correctness. I'm not the only one of my friends who had a father who died young. One of my friends lost her father when she was four.
12
Some people don't have mothers. My daughter was abused by her mother and now I have 100% legal and physical custody. Do you think that I should lobby to remove mother-child events from the school calendar? Maybe it would be better to explain carefully to my daughter that there are some good reasons for the fact that her mother is not part of our lives.
8
Politically correct just means good manners. Is it good manners to leave some of the kids out of an event because they don't have a dad? I don't think so.
5
I never heard of such a thing growing up in NYC. These dances do occur in the suburbs of DC, where I now live. We first encountered them when my older child was in Girl Scouts. As a single mother, I always found all "fathers" events a little bit awkward, but that didn't prevent me from participating with my daughters. It's just a dance, and an excuse to dress up, and a nice night out for the girls with the parent they tend to spend less time with But I really don't think it's a widespread American phenomenon.
1
My father was in Viet Nam and my mother took me to my father's daughter dance and no one said a bad word. It's great to have a more inclusive theme. Maybe daughter's dance.
9
There have always been children who have been excluded from father-daughter or mother-daughter events. I had a fatherless classmate in my first-grade class. Her father had died. My mom used to invite a motherless brownie in our group to mother-daughter dinners. The local skating group used to have a father-daughter waltz on the ice. Those that didn't have a skating father borrowed one for the night. There will never be an event where all children will fit into the parameters. I think being inclusive in this instance is great. I don't see the need to include boys on this evening. Sometimes girls and boys should have separate events. The idea that boys and girls are not different is totally bogus.
15
The idea that boys and boys are not different, and that girls and girls are not different, is entirely bogus.
3
Most likely this is a regional phenomenon of some type. I've seen shows on TV with father/daughter dances but they never had them at any school I ever attended (all public in the midwest). Probably is more frequent in private schools. That being said if I public school wants to hold a father/daughter dance the name doesn't really matter as long as its made very clear that everyone is welcome to attend, mothers, sons, cousins, uncles, whatever. A theme for an event should never become more important than the inclusion of the community in the event itself.
5
Why? Then it wouldn't be what it was intended to be.
Why do you feel the need to criticize others like that? What makes you the arbiter of manners?
Why do you feel the need to criticize others like that? What makes you the arbiter of manners?
3
Uh, because public schools are funded by tax payer money and are required by law to not act in a discriminatory manner and excluding elements of the community from attending public events is discriminatory.
It's good of you to be honest about yourself and argue for exclusion of others though. Way to own it.
It's good of you to be honest about yourself and argue for exclusion of others though. Way to own it.
4
This entire article just completely creeps me out. Also, it's just another attempt to line the pockets of retailers at the expense of too many who can't afford it and if you're 'not on board' with it all, then you're the misfit. Ugh.
24
Thanks. I didn't want to read it anyway
Floored by the number of commentators who say these dances are silly/stupid/creepy/not cool. They didn't have them when and where I went to school, but they seem to be most popular these days. According to the article, one of these dances in Atlanta was sold out. The one featured in El Paso had 300 attendees. There is no evidence that anyone was forced to go.
Commenters who are calling these events creepy and silly should pause, perhaps, and consider whether they are being overly judgmental. When so many people from a single community/school get together for anything, that can be nothing but good.
Commenters who are calling these events creepy and silly should pause, perhaps, and consider whether they are being overly judgmental. When so many people from a single community/school get together for anything, that can be nothing but good.
34
You didn't think that the photo of that little girl (5 years old?) wearing a wedding dress including holding a bride's corsage creepy?
How about instead taking her hiking, or swimming, or helping her build a doll house or putting train tracks together, or cooking a meal, or or or. As for a school and/or community getting together, traditionally the children perform songs or plays, or enjoy the face painting and other fun activities often provided. The possibility of father/daughter bonding are limitless, both within a special occasion but most importantly in the consistency of everyday life.
So there's no need to pretend the girl is a bride and her father is her first "date" in order to create bonding between a man and a little girl. It's even worse in the purity dances where fathers actually give rings to their daughters...
How about instead taking her hiking, or swimming, or helping her build a doll house or putting train tracks together, or cooking a meal, or or or. As for a school and/or community getting together, traditionally the children perform songs or plays, or enjoy the face painting and other fun activities often provided. The possibility of father/daughter bonding are limitless, both within a special occasion but most importantly in the consistency of everyday life.
So there's no need to pretend the girl is a bride and her father is her first "date" in order to create bonding between a man and a little girl. It's even worse in the purity dances where fathers actually give rings to their daughters...
3
My daughter's preschool always had a mother's day and father's day breakfast. For the father's day breakfast, I always invited one of her uncles to partake in the breakfast and never asked once if a substitute were allowed! The father's day gift my daughter made was given to the uncle who attended! It was a great bonding moment for my daughter and her uncle. Always nice to know that someone loves you! I saw the best picture on pinterest of a mom who dressed up as a man so that her son would be able to partake in the father and son breakfast with his boy scout troupe! We all have different family configurations and there will be times when one child or another may feel left out, which is heartbreaking when it is the lack of a parent. You dont need permission to attend a school dance with your child, or to have a close friend or relative do the same. If the school is inflexible, than maybe it is not the right fit for your family.
22
It's a nice idea, but sounds to me like it could be done more simply:
"Tickets cost $250 per couple and include a three-course meal, as well as a corsage and a boutonniere. The event this year, with space for 750, is already sold out. Guests, clad in formal attire...."
$250 for two people to attend?? The 'three-course meal' bit means squat. Three courses could be a caesar salad, minestrone soup out of a can, and pasta with red sauce. Throw in a generic corsage and....those prices are criminal. Not to mention that most attendees (esp. the parents of the little girls) are probably buying overpriced frilly dresses that the girls will never wear again.
Our society as a whole is so utterly wasteful, and in so many ways. This event needn't cost so much, and the girls should just be able to wear something nice. It needn't be a 'formal dress'.
"Tickets cost $250 per couple and include a three-course meal, as well as a corsage and a boutonniere. The event this year, with space for 750, is already sold out. Guests, clad in formal attire...."
$250 for two people to attend?? The 'three-course meal' bit means squat. Three courses could be a caesar salad, minestrone soup out of a can, and pasta with red sauce. Throw in a generic corsage and....those prices are criminal. Not to mention that most attendees (esp. the parents of the little girls) are probably buying overpriced frilly dresses that the girls will never wear again.
Our society as a whole is so utterly wasteful, and in so many ways. This event needn't cost so much, and the girls should just be able to wear something nice. It needn't be a 'formal dress'.
19
And probably tax-deductible as a school fundraiser, too.
I believe the article specified that the tickets you refer to are for Mr. Cameron's foundation, "which promotes leadership skills in youth." The article also notes that this particular event is held outside of a school setting.
5
It's a fundraiser. Did you not read that part?
1
Imagine how offended all the men and and women who can't be dads are today. Fathers day should be changed to "June Edition of Whatever Caregiver You Choose to Acknowledge Day".
Let's take it a step further and get rid of the terms "Father" and "Daughter" all together along with every other 'antiquated' term and blend everybody into one ambiguous pot of non identity.
OR
Keep the Daddy Daughter dance and make sure you're inclusive of others.
Let's take it a step further and get rid of the terms "Father" and "Daughter" all together along with every other 'antiquated' term and blend everybody into one ambiguous pot of non identity.
OR
Keep the Daddy Daughter dance and make sure you're inclusive of others.
16
I imagine that Father's Day it is quite painful for many men who can not be Dads,
just as it is for me, a daughter whose father died at a young age.
just as it is for me, a daughter whose father died at a young age.
4
Too many politically correct responses. Just enjoy the picture at the top of the article. Its so charming and warms my heart. It takes me away from all the current bad news out there.
38
Father-daughter dances? Sometimes the American culture baffles this Canadian. I'm not judging, just trying to make sense of it.
14
Yeah, like log rolling make perfect sense to us, either.
5
Also, curling! ;-)
3
I love the idea of a "Father-Daughter" Dance. If schools are so sensitive that they don't want to have events that "leave out" a portion of their population, perhaps they should not have all-boy football and basketball teams. N'est ce pas?
9
I think it's good that the dances are being inclusive and provide the most opportunities for girls to attend regardless of family arrangements. These policies should be continued. To remove the word father from the dances all together is a disgrace. While many children no longer grow up in what we think of as a traditional family, there is no substitute for a father, father figure or strong male role model in a kids life. For NYT to run this article on Father's Day is disrespectful and dumb.
17
As a dad and now a grandfather, who has not always made the best choice, I want to give a huge shout out to Phil Mickelson who skipped the US Open to attend his daughter's graduation. Good On You, Mate!
23
graduation, yes! father-daughter dance, no thanks.
2
What about our community of undocumented immigrant workers? Shouldn't they have an opportunity to attend a father and daughter dance? Our undocumented immigrant workers come to our country for a better life.. many work 3 jobs. I think we owe them some time to spend with their families and loved ones. A Father-Daughter dance is an excellent idea and a wonderful first step to bridge the divide which separates. I might add, our small but growing community of Syrian refugees- they too deserve a Father-Daughter dance.
4
I love this idea!
4
As far as I know the illegal immigrants can come to dances.
Understand that our laws are on the books for a reason. For example, we need to screen immigrants before they are admitted into the country temporarily or permanently.
Suffolk county on Long Island is an extremely low crime area. That is why middle class people work hard to bring their families there. Since January 1, 2016 MS-13 has slaughtered 45 people, that we know of. That doesn't include the lives that were ruined by selling drugs to our youth.
The MS-13 operations involves sending low level illegal immigrants up north to sell drugs to kids and sending the proceeds back to their bosses in Central America.
The laws are in place for a reason. Think about the daughters who are missing because of the havoc caused by illegal immigrants.
As far as opportunities for illegals. I believe that Mexico has the resources to secure jobs for their citizens. They need to get their act together and stop suppressing wages by sending cheap illegal labor north. From my understanding Mexico's ills revolve around crime. They need to get tougher and root out corruption. The US can help them with that
Understand that our laws are on the books for a reason. For example, we need to screen immigrants before they are admitted into the country temporarily or permanently.
Suffolk county on Long Island is an extremely low crime area. That is why middle class people work hard to bring their families there. Since January 1, 2016 MS-13 has slaughtered 45 people, that we know of. That doesn't include the lives that were ruined by selling drugs to our youth.
The MS-13 operations involves sending low level illegal immigrants up north to sell drugs to kids and sending the proceeds back to their bosses in Central America.
The laws are in place for a reason. Think about the daughters who are missing because of the havoc caused by illegal immigrants.
As far as opportunities for illegals. I believe that Mexico has the resources to secure jobs for their citizens. They need to get their act together and stop suppressing wages by sending cheap illegal labor north. From my understanding Mexico's ills revolve around crime. They need to get tougher and root out corruption. The US can help them with that
9
Let them dance in TJ.
2
I wonder if this is a regional phenomenon - I've never heard of any school anywhere near me (Seattle area) doing this, or at least not the public ones.
7
That photo. Wonderful. I can't remember the last time I was so touched by a photo.
14
This is just an activity, or occasion, and should not be blown out of propostion.
Growing up, I do not recall any father-daughter dances but I do recall mother-daughter banquets. I never thought about it much, but I wonder if my dad felt left out. And what of families who had only boys, or just a mother and son? We have traditionally excluded one parent or another or one child or another from these festivities. And, now, in light of same sex parents we are evaluating the fairness of such events?
I believe that in most cases, if there were no biological father involved, a mother would certainly be welcome to attend a father-daughter dance, and vice versa in the case of a mother-daughter or mother-son banquet. I have, however, not heard of being welcomed to substitute a son for a daughter or the reverse.
The bottom line is we should not exclude parents or children from events, and should find a way not to do so. Mothers should be able to attend a "father-daughter dance," if there is no father or if the father is ill or away on business, etc. And the reverse should be true. So we may not be stepping on tradition as much as simply making it more flexible.
Growing up, I do not recall any father-daughter dances but I do recall mother-daughter banquets. I never thought about it much, but I wonder if my dad felt left out. And what of families who had only boys, or just a mother and son? We have traditionally excluded one parent or another or one child or another from these festivities. And, now, in light of same sex parents we are evaluating the fairness of such events?
I believe that in most cases, if there were no biological father involved, a mother would certainly be welcome to attend a father-daughter dance, and vice versa in the case of a mother-daughter or mother-son banquet. I have, however, not heard of being welcomed to substitute a son for a daughter or the reverse.
The bottom line is we should not exclude parents or children from events, and should find a way not to do so. Mothers should be able to attend a "father-daughter dance," if there is no father or if the father is ill or away on business, etc. And the reverse should be true. So we may not be stepping on tradition as much as simply making it more flexible.
11
I never got to attend one of these, and my dad might not have been the best date. But I would have liked the chance.
14
I always get angry when I hear about irresponsible fathers. Girls relationships with their dads are so important.
I had a male friend who because a Boy Scout Leader to fill the void caused by his missing dad. Helping others is a great way to make up for those things we missed in our childhood.
I had a male friend who because a Boy Scout Leader to fill the void caused by his missing dad. Helping others is a great way to make up for those things we missed in our childhood.
2
On Father's Day I would have rather seen a story on how important and impactful it is in a child's development to have a Father? Scientists and Educators agree on this fact!
22
Right?!
Not in this era I'm afraid.
Not in this era I'm afraid.
5
That sounds like a good subject to search for in another publication! Good luck.
My public schools never had a father-daughter dance. I had only seen it or heard about it on tv.
But I do want to say the picture in this article of the father and daughter - with the little girl in the white dress - should win a Pulitzer prize for Photojournalism. It is wonderful.
But I do want to say the picture in this article of the father and daughter - with the little girl in the white dress - should win a Pulitzer prize for Photojournalism. It is wonderful.
27
I agree with you about the photo! It is a treasure!
9
The photo is credited to the Ryan Cameron Foundation, so no Pulitzer for the Times this time around.
3
I went to an all-girls private school in NYC. Every year for the Christmas Assembly, there was a "fathers chorus". The fathers would sing one part of a song, and the girls from one grade would sing the other part. For example the fathers would be King Wencelas and the girls would be the page. We all loved it, and would laugh at the mens' voices.
20
That is just awesome.
7
"...a handful of parents complained."
This will most certainly be the official epitaph of our country.
Small groups of entitled and vocal groups have been overly empowered and encouraged in recent years to seemingly lead the assault on every single established tradition, institution and ideology in our country - no matter how small or large/inconsequential or meaningful. This now obligatory and compulsive behavioral trend is driven by the childish notion that achieving some politically correct/conformist utopia, free of all inequities, is possible. Whittle it all away piece by piece and there will be nothing left. These parents are no better/different than the Koch brothers in my mind. When did the majority allow themselves to be subjugated out of existence? Why? Answer: fear.
This will most certainly be the official epitaph of our country.
Small groups of entitled and vocal groups have been overly empowered and encouraged in recent years to seemingly lead the assault on every single established tradition, institution and ideology in our country - no matter how small or large/inconsequential or meaningful. This now obligatory and compulsive behavioral trend is driven by the childish notion that achieving some politically correct/conformist utopia, free of all inequities, is possible. Whittle it all away piece by piece and there will be nothing left. These parents are no better/different than the Koch brothers in my mind. When did the majority allow themselves to be subjugated out of existence? Why? Answer: fear.
48
My dad and I attended my (Catholic all-girls) high school's annual "father-daughter dinner-dance" every year. He thought it was a hoot, despite our failing four times to win any of the dancing prizes. It was a hokey event, but not weird. I don't recall any rule that only "dads" could attend. I think uncles, brothers, grandfathers and probably some moms went too. My dad (now 96) remembers those dances fondly, and still says we wuz robbed!)
27
My dad did not ever go to my catholic girls school father/daughter events. I would not even have asked him (long story) .
But I was never jealous of the girls whose dads could go, and I certainly was not "traumatized" as a result. )
I did, however, marry a man who LOVED the annual father/daughter Shamrock Ball in our town.
But I was never jealous of the girls whose dads could go, and I certainly was not "traumatized" as a result. )
I did, however, marry a man who LOVED the annual father/daughter Shamrock Ball in our town.
6
"The whole father-daughter dance concept is so antiquated."
"I don't understand why the relationship between the daughter and the das is somehow the chosen relationship to nurture."
I consider myself a left-leaning progressive, but these quotes, and others, in the story made me throw up a little in my mouth.
Understanding that Leave It To Beaver was always a myth, we live in a time when strong relationships between parents and offspring should be both encouraged and celebrated, and so this is political correctness gone amok. To cancel this sort of tradition because a minority of folks are somehow not comfortable is ridiculous. The problem, I submit, is more theirs than anyone else's.
Sometimes, we over-think and over-engineer things. In a perfect world, we would continue these dances without changing the name, and at the same time notify parents that all are welcome, and go out of our way to make sure that everyone really is welcome. Otherwise, we are saying, in so many words, that dads aren't special, and they are. I don't know how many kids attend Benito Martinez Elementary School, but that 300 people came is testament that it is a tradition worth keeping. And the way the school handled it, with the welcoming sign declaring other possibilities, should be a template for schools elsewhere. Sometimes, public schools actually do things right.
"I don't understand why the relationship between the daughter and the das is somehow the chosen relationship to nurture."
I consider myself a left-leaning progressive, but these quotes, and others, in the story made me throw up a little in my mouth.
Understanding that Leave It To Beaver was always a myth, we live in a time when strong relationships between parents and offspring should be both encouraged and celebrated, and so this is political correctness gone amok. To cancel this sort of tradition because a minority of folks are somehow not comfortable is ridiculous. The problem, I submit, is more theirs than anyone else's.
Sometimes, we over-think and over-engineer things. In a perfect world, we would continue these dances without changing the name, and at the same time notify parents that all are welcome, and go out of our way to make sure that everyone really is welcome. Otherwise, we are saying, in so many words, that dads aren't special, and they are. I don't know how many kids attend Benito Martinez Elementary School, but that 300 people came is testament that it is a tradition worth keeping. And the way the school handled it, with the welcoming sign declaring other possibilities, should be a template for schools elsewhere. Sometimes, public schools actually do things right.
59
A very sweet column. It actually brought tears to my eyes; perhaps seeing what I missed.
4
Our Girl Scout Service Unit sponsored a "Man in My Life Dance" every year to honor the choice of all the scouts to have the person of their choice accompany them. The first dance for my daughter was about 15 years ago and that was already the tradition/format. Both my daughters always attended with their dad and everyone had a great time regardless of the actual legal relationship.
14
That's a actually a lovely way to refer to these dances: inclusive of any man the girl appreciates and admires.
I do have a little queasiness about these events, though. What's the equivalent for boys and the women in their lives? Is having a girl start the hair/makeup/dress routine so young helpful to her self-image? What about the many girls who chafe at the whole princess thing? Maybe there's a different way to celebrate this special relationship: a day of service perhaps.
I do have a little queasiness about these events, though. What's the equivalent for boys and the women in their lives? Is having a girl start the hair/makeup/dress routine so young helpful to her self-image? What about the many girls who chafe at the whole princess thing? Maybe there's a different way to celebrate this special relationship: a day of service perhaps.
10
I can't take my eyes off this little cutie-pie with the heart cut-out on her beautiful dress. What a great idea for fathers and daughters. MY father would not have taken part, however.
7
These "hallmark" events in May and June bring up pain for many.
12
They do indeed. I'm a grandma now but still remember the pain caused when father/daughter events came along after my father's death. Did I have uncles or grandfathers willing to step in? Yes. Did I want to tell my teacher I no longer had a father and ask if it was okay to bring someone else? No. Children don't want to feel different. And a traumatic loss due to death, divorce, or other forces can't be glossed over. The family dance idea is much better for all.
15
jeez, so does Christmas. Doesn't mean we should end it.
4
Christmas was not created by Hallmark !
2
Let's celebrate activities that involve the social development and relationship building among family members. I do agree the father daughter label is a bit antiquated and leaves those without fathers in their lives the lack of an opportunity to participate. We live in a complex world where family roles have shifted for whatever reason--divorce, death, war, military, addiction, incarceration, etc. Sheryl Sandberg's children wouldn't even be able to participate in this if their school sponsored it. I couldn't even imagine how this is promoted in school, "Ok children anyone with a father in their life this week, I hope to see you and him this weekend wearing your mini prom outfits." Instead the message should be, "There's a family dance this weekend. Bring your family members--moms, dads, gramies, aunties, uncles." It's about the connection to each other, having fun, and being off devices for a hot minute.
10
I've never seen so much anxiety over 3 hours in a school gym on a Saturday night. I'm quite sure the reality is eight year olds with glow sticks dancing with their friends while the dads make awkward conversation back at the folding tables.
9
Does ever single thing have to pass some weird PC test that somebody else is writing ?
Have the father/ daughter dance for heavens sake !
And if the Dad is out of the picture, or the family is 2 Moms - either do something else or invite an uncle, a brother, a neighbor, a friend.
We have enough real problems in the word without inventing new ones
Have the father/ daughter dance for heavens sake !
And if the Dad is out of the picture, or the family is 2 Moms - either do something else or invite an uncle, a brother, a neighbor, a friend.
We have enough real problems in the word without inventing new ones
54
There are so many variations on the human situations that are not in the idyllic image conjured up by the title of father-daughter dance. Not only are these also-ran situations the source of pain in the living, but the source of additional pain on the occurrence of events like these dances. There is no easy answer like asking other people to stand in for the father or changing the name of the event.
6
I don't think it is a PC issue, but a child development issue. My parents were divorced before I was in kindergarden in the 1960's, and I usually look at articles like this with "Awe, how cute" or at most, a wish I had gone to one with my dad. But the comment on how big an impact it is to a child to exclude them from an event brought back and opened up a gaping hole that I hadnt realized was there, remembering how hurt I had been that I couldn't go to such a dance/dinnner at school while my friends did. I'm sure my father would have come to it, but my parents had a contencious relationship so I didnt get to see him often. I had a grandfather and uncle that could have stepped in, but I dont know if that would have been aceptable in the 1960's. Or did my mom just not want to do anything to emphasize her divorced status? Too late to ask any of those people now.
2
By the same logic - let's change today from Father's Day to "Everyone Day". I am sure that "Father's Day" is offensive to many men who chose not to, or were unable to have children and thus we should abandon such silly and antiquated traditions.
In fact - I now realize that Earth Day may be offensive to the planet Mars and by golly something needs to be done about it!
In fact - I now realize that Earth Day may be offensive to the planet Mars and by golly something needs to be done about it!
36
You are confusing apples and oranges. Father's day does celebrate fathers and the constant care and love a good father gives to his children. Fathers day is about fathers being fathers and grateful children and former children expressing their love.
What is it that a father/daughter dance in which a little girl is dressed as a bride celebrate?
(or worse those purity dances where fathers give wedding rings to their daughter who pledges to not date anyone till marriage approved by her father)
What is it that a father/daughter dance in which a little girl is dressed as a bride celebrate?
(or worse those purity dances where fathers give wedding rings to their daughter who pledges to not date anyone till marriage approved by her father)
1
Instead of jettisoning an institution that serves the help daughters lucky enough to grow up in a family with an intact father, let's preserve those who can still benefit it. I'm tired, in the name of "tolerance" that embraces everything except the traditional, of abandoning and debasing traditions such as these to cater to broken families and imitation "marriages."
13
These events arent meant to celebrate the adults, but the child. Why should any child be excluded for any reason from an event at her school that all her friends attend? Did you read the comment on how harmful it is to kids to be excluded in such curcumstances? That comment brought tears to my eyes, remembering how I couldnt go to one such event in the 1960's because my parents were divorced. At that age, being different equates to being "wrong" in a child's eyes. It took me years as an adult to shake that deep feeling.
3
There's a lot more "non-traditional" families now--maybe equal number to "traditional" (whatever that means). Forget about "traditional." There's no such thing anymore. It's not the 1950's anymore. People need to get on board with the times. Would you rather leave out those children who don't have an "intact" father (don't forget that also includes children with a deceased father--who may have once fallen into the "traditional" category). Would you really want to ignore children who don't have a father for whatever reason? Isn't that cruel and defeating the purpose?
1
I have bittersweet feelings about these dances but I think that is OK. It's OK to feel regret that my adopted daughter does not have a father and that I have no partner. It is something I wish I could have provided for her (and myself) but life is imperfect. I do not begrudge her classmates the chance to have a special time with their Dad, Second Mom or less omnipresent parent.
Many elementary kids have times when their parents can't participate in something special that other parents join. There are kids whose parents both work to the extent that they almost never come to school events at all. Other kids usually share their parents, or grandparents, on these days. At the Dad's dance my daughter's two closest friends shared their Dad's with her and the whole group had a great time.
I think it is important that parents and grandparents feel connected to the school and to their fellow parents and these events help forge that connection.
Many elementary kids have times when their parents can't participate in something special that other parents join. There are kids whose parents both work to the extent that they almost never come to school events at all. Other kids usually share their parents, or grandparents, on these days. At the Dad's dance my daughter's two closest friends shared their Dad's with her and the whole group had a great time.
I think it is important that parents and grandparents feel connected to the school and to their fellow parents and these events help forge that connection.
15
My culture is rather ancient, I realize. In the old world we fortified a child's perspective with a sense of identity he was inheriting, so that by adolescence, the creature could embrace all or some of it, or even define himself contrary to it.
All children have this identity core, and if not shared by the household of toddler-hood, they pick it up off the floor.
All children have this identity core, and if not shared by the household of toddler-hood, they pick it up off the floor.
1
I would totally agree with your perspective. The statement you make "they pick it up off the floor" is what I believe to be occurring within our society. I would challenge those who believe that your culture is ancient by looking at statistics that report on this "old culture" where two parents are present in the child bearing. I understand that our culture has changed but that does not mean it has been for the better...specifically for our children. i would love to hear others feedback and welcome comments
3
In my community, such dances feature a Disney princess theme, which makes the underlying gender stereotypes even more apparent. These dances reinforce the idea that the most exciting thing for a girl to be is a doll, a date, a bride. And for those who would say I'm "reading too much into it," ask yourselves: where and when do girls get these ideas? From a culture that still encourages them, from day one, to be beautiful objects rather than agents of their destiny. Give me Wonder Woman any day.
34
Like Wonder Woman isn't some hot chick running around in a bathing suit? It's really everywhere in society. You send a different message to your girls at home, if you're lucky.
6
What is an agent of destiny? Is it different from being a beautiful object?
1
Wonder Woman may be a "hot chick" but she's a powerful one. Btw, out of curiosity--what image would you use for a "non-hot chick" Wonder Woman?
2
Good grief.
Let the schools hold father/daughter dances (I like the idea of offering other options for kids who want to go but don't have a father in their lives).
I've chaperoned my share of these dances and the kids are so proud to be with their dads (grandfathers, uncles, brothers, family friends), and vice versa.
Let the schools hold father/daughter dances (I like the idea of offering other options for kids who want to go but don't have a father in their lives).
I've chaperoned my share of these dances and the kids are so proud to be with their dads (grandfathers, uncles, brothers, family friends), and vice versa.
29
Think those opposed to this actually are using the anti-sane sex marriage right wing arguments, saying what's different is threatening. I don't feel that fathers engaging in traditional (loaded term to begin with) should feel threatened by less traditional relationships - but the reverse should be true. Otherwise, it's just intolerance. Think about it: intolerance is still intolerance.
16
Father-Daughter dances are a relic from the past. My daughter and husband attended one in her freshman year of high school and my daughter declared it weird and uncomfortable. If schools want to have an event why not just call it a formal dance for students, friends and families and remove the implicit paternalism and misogyny?
20
The father is usually the first man in a young daughter's life. He sets the tone and hopefully the right example, how a "woman" should be treated and respected by a man, and subsequently other men. It defines how she eventually looks at herself, and then incorporates this image into self respect.
Denigrating this role, or homogenizing it in this ever-more tolerant culture, which seems bent on erasing or stretching tradition, is perilous.
Denigrating this role, or homogenizing it in this ever-more tolerant culture, which seems bent on erasing or stretching tradition, is perilous.
23
Thank you.
1
People enjoy father-daughter dances (i.e., one-song events) at weddings because their attention is focused for a few minutes on what it means to the father to have his daughter reach this particular milestone in life. If a couple decides that this should be one of the rituals observed, you may depend on its being jam-packed with emotion. Grade school father-daughter dances, on the other hand, run the risk of sentimentalizing what should be multifaceted, authentic relationships. And it isn't just nontraditional parents who are a poor fit with the Daddy's Little Girl narrative; tomboys, too, would be a blight on this gauzy vision.
6
I assume this is some sort of regional thing b/c I never heard of it (while attending public school in Northern NJ). Then again, except for the senior prom, we literally didn't have any dances at all. I don't think it was a Footloose type situation, but rather that the idea was abandoned b/c of poor attendance. If people really don't like these things, then why have them at all? Is it the parents that want to hold dances or is it the kids?
2
I like the idea of the "Family Dance" This way, families with only sons can participate. I dislike events that are exclusionary.
10
Why not have a Mother-Son Dance?
3
Why do we need to have one kind of celebratory event for fathers/mothers/guardians? If the "Father-Daughter dance" doesn't work for one family, they don't have to do it. They can start their own tradition, or bail altogether. Why does making room for other kinds of families require rejecting more "traditional" approaches to family life? There are families who love the father-daughter dance. Yay! There are those who don't. Yay! Can't all these options--and more!--be accepted and embraced?
25
It's unfortunate that we are declaring father daughter dances antiquated, but still put such great emphasis on Mother's Day. If anything, a generic parents day may be more representative of a changing demographic.
12
Nick - don't mess with my breakfast in bed!! One day a year I get to sleep in and eat burnt toast and lukewarm coffee while reading homemade cards and I like it like that. If you get rid of Mother's Day, I'll really have to think about going on strike the other 364 days a year.
Never heard of this when I was growing up in NJ in the early 1970s. We had Indian Princesses, an organization that offered activities for dads and their daughters. As an adult, I find the name and cultural appropriation offensive (for example, this little Jewess had a feather headdress and wore a Shrinky Dink necklace that bore the name "Running Water"). However, I do cherish the memories of adventure, camping, and trips with my dad - activities that were at that time considered in the "boy" realm. We tore it up all over the tri-state area, but there wasn't a single dance I can recall. It would have felt so weirdly out of sync. That said, anything that helps family members spend a bit of time together can't be all bad.
9
Jewess? Now THAT is word that makes ME uncomfortable. Nobody talks about "Jewesses" anymore, I should hope-that's something out of Walter Scott-the exotic "Jewess" Rebecca, if I remember correctly. Ugh! Nothing "exotic" anymore about Jewish women, or so I hope.
..."but others cling" add father-daughter dances to guns and religion, I guess.
6
I have 3 daughters and have had the great fortune to go to Father Daughter dances with all three. No one was dressed as a princess, or was looked at as a date, or objectified.It was just a wonderful night spent individually with each of my kids. The time spent with each other is what's of value.
Why call for the end of the event? Why not have a "daughter dance", or "parent daughter dance", or "the person who pays for everything dance", etc etc.
This seems to be another case where the adults aren't thinking about the kids and are too worried about their own perceptions. It's 2017, do as many dances as possible. Parents time with their children in a public/social setting is good for everyone.
Why call for the end of the event? Why not have a "daughter dance", or "parent daughter dance", or "the person who pays for everything dance", etc etc.
This seems to be another case where the adults aren't thinking about the kids and are too worried about their own perceptions. It's 2017, do as many dances as possible. Parents time with their children in a public/social setting is good for everyone.
73
What do you mean "the person who pays for everything dance"?
It strikes me as a passive-aggressive expression?
It strikes me as a passive-aggressive expression?
1
Having been sexually abused by my father for years, the idea of going to a "romantic" dance with him turns my stomach.
31
Joanne, So sorry this happened to you....
The picture of a little girl dressed like a bride walking next to, in contrast, her huge father is enough to trigger a PTSD episode in anyone who has been abused or who has empathy for victims of abuse.
People who feel that picture is "creepy" are indeed thinking about sexual abuse but few in this discussion are admitting it. It echoes the horrors of so many abused children who are not believed by their other family members.
Some of us feel the situation is creepy, not for political reasons and certainly not for PC reasons but because it is creepy.
The picture of a little girl dressed like a bride walking next to, in contrast, her huge father is enough to trigger a PTSD episode in anyone who has been abused or who has empathy for victims of abuse.
People who feel that picture is "creepy" are indeed thinking about sexual abuse but few in this discussion are admitting it. It echoes the horrors of so many abused children who are not believed by their other family members.
Some of us feel the situation is creepy, not for political reasons and certainly not for PC reasons but because it is creepy.
2
This comes from a someone who grew up with no Mother, in a state (Utah), and a time when have a single father was very unusual. I felt the awkwardness of my situation - the lack of a Mother - when any type of Mother/Daughter event was happening (which some could argue was daily!), or really in any situation where a parent (presumably Mom) was needed. There were A LOT of these awkward situations, where I had to explain my Mom was dead and my Dad at work. I dealt with this from age 4-18, and here's the thing: We can all be offended, or have our feelings hurt in one hundred different ways throughout each day, should we choose to. I didn't like the awkwardness, but has that discomfort altered my sense of self, or life? No. My own children have "Grandparents Day" at school, and my children don't have Grandparents to take. Are they hurt? Offended? No. We substitute a special neighbor, a friend, an Aunt or and Uncle. Everyone is different - be ok with your own different.
Let's not make an issue, especially in the NYT, over something that doesn't need to be brought to national attention from such an esteemed publication. Reading about this on smaller sites, maybe? But you guys? No, please. I don't think we all need to take father/daughter so literally. I doubt you'd be turned away if you showed up with an uncle, special friend, Mom - whatever. Let's not take this any farther than we need to.
Let's not make an issue, especially in the NYT, over something that doesn't need to be brought to national attention from such an esteemed publication. Reading about this on smaller sites, maybe? But you guys? No, please. I don't think we all need to take father/daughter so literally. I doubt you'd be turned away if you showed up with an uncle, special friend, Mom - whatever. Let's not take this any farther than we need to.
80
A very sensible comment!
8
I think your recommendation about substituting someone is a good one, but children tend to be literal. I wouldn't want to be the kid who is asked by every classmate why the father is not there. The school could make it easier by not making it specifically about fathers.
2
Father-daughter dances are simply another way of stereotyping the relationship between men and women. Please let's take our girls outside let them play in the mud, become comfortable with the outdoors, play on play grounds etc before they get "gussied" up and go on a "date."
33
These activities are not mutually exclusive,
11
I guess you can say the same about "mothers day" and "take our daughters to work day."
4
It's now Take our Children to Work Day. And as long as there is a Mother's Day and a Father's Day, your analogy is faulty.
4
And what about the handicap that can't dance? Let's just stop dancing.
13
So much insight, sir.
There are dances performed by those in wheelchairs--it's an actual art/athletic form, and I say more power to those who can/do participate.
I suspect, though, that Jim was being sarcastic, implying that since the disabled can't do the "traditional" on-your-feet dances, it's okay to exclude them.
Btw, "handicapped" is a pejorative word in the disabled world. Very offensive.
I suspect, though, that Jim was being sarcastic, implying that since the disabled can't do the "traditional" on-your-feet dances, it's okay to exclude them.
Btw, "handicapped" is a pejorative word in the disabled world. Very offensive.
1
I am 50. My father would have hated this and refused to go. I would have been devastated. I'm glad my NY school never heard of this stuff.
8
I think people are getting too worried about the "correctness" of this dance. Some little girls love to dress up in fancy dresses, some don't. I can't imagine anyone is forced to go to these dances; don't go if it's not what the child wants to do.
It is often said that a father is a girl's first love. If that is the case, what is wrong with being treated as special for an evening with dad (be it actual or stand in)? If it brings them closer and creates nice memories, isn't it a good thing?
It is often said that a father is a girl's first love. If that is the case, what is wrong with being treated as special for an evening with dad (be it actual or stand in)? If it brings them closer and creates nice memories, isn't it a good thing?
20
Not everything has to be a political statement. Can't we just celebrate fathers?
58
Of course we can just celebrate fathers! That's what Father's Day is for. Why do they have to do this dance thing with daughters? Because if that's celebrating Father's Day, when do sons celebrate dad?
2
I can think of so many other ways to celebrate fathers than by dressing up a 5 year old girl in a wedding dress and taking her to a dance.
How about father and daughter playing ball together? Or constructing a lego structure? Or baking cookies? or going for a walk? etc etc etc
How about father and daughter playing ball together? Or constructing a lego structure? Or baking cookies? or going for a walk? etc etc etc
2
I remember attending a father (mine was a step dad)-daughter dinner and it was fun. It was just a time set aside for a "special" dinner with my dad and me. And with a family of 5 kids, time alone with my dad was a very rare event.
I think these dances give special alone time regardless of who the "adult" participant is, and why is this so bad?
I think these dances give special alone time regardless of who the "adult" participant is, and why is this so bad?
26
The military and its civilian counterpart assume adulthood equates to maturity. It doesn't. Simply because a person has aged into the prime of life does not mean they have matured as a person. The most obvious example is Donald Trump. Before children are nurtured with learning opportunities that make them a useful soldier, scientist, engineer, businessman or responsible citizen, they need nurturing and affirmation as a person. The vast majority of what transpires when we communicate isn't from the literal meaning of words, but from the associations that accompany the acquisition of words. Fundamental forms of nurturing must precede the formal forms. As Erasmus said: Experience must precede learning. Nurturing provides us with the fundamental sense of who we are as well as the foundation upon which we engage the world. Some scientists may disapprove of the idea of a soul. But it is very real. The soul is what separates us from the abyss of nothingness. The empty void, such as that which was experienced by thousands of infants in Serbia when Milosocev believed that birthrate alone would produce national greatness. I didn't. It simply produced an immense moral and ethical problem. The love and wisdom of a mother and a father are essential to the development of every human being.
There is no equivalent substitute.
In many areas, we've become a nation that "eats its young" because the rush to make conquests of wealth & power consumes a sublime resource. -- Love of our young.
There is no equivalent substitute.
In many areas, we've become a nation that "eats its young" because the rush to make conquests of wealth & power consumes a sublime resource. -- Love of our young.
3
I think the occasion is worthy of keeping with an update -- "The Daughters' Dinner/Dance" -- allowing the selection of partner/guardian/best adult friend to be made by the daughter, of course! While I don't have actual pictures of my special night out with my special adult friend back when I was at this stage of my budding life ... my heart and mind does. Many happy memories in the making from one who had many happy memories!
7
Don't underestimate what a child remembers later on in life, nor how it could affect and shape them as a person. It can be the smallest thing or the most meaningful, that they got to share a special moment out in public with their significant parental figure.
What may be the hokiest or even the most embarrassing moment at the time, could possibly evolve into one of the proudest moments that evolves as th decades pass.
Parenting is serious business on the scale of .... well, like nothing.
What may be the hokiest or even the most embarrassing moment at the time, could possibly evolve into one of the proudest moments that evolves as th decades pass.
Parenting is serious business on the scale of .... well, like nothing.
17
Father/daughter relationships are very unique and not to be compared with mother/daughter relationships. Just as you don't want non-traditional families mocked, do not mock traditional ones. It is all about family, and all about love, whatever the dynamics or genders involved.
I still remember my dad, my pal, and how he would often be the mediator between my mother and I when we clashed. When we spent time together it was memorable because he worked long, hard hours. But all his free time was spent with his family because that is where he wanted to be. Yes, our bond was special and traditional and all about love.
Decades later, and long after his death, his loving memorial still lives on in the hearts of his three daughters.
I still remember my dad, my pal, and how he would often be the mediator between my mother and I when we clashed. When we spent time together it was memorable because he worked long, hard hours. But all his free time was spent with his family because that is where he wanted to be. Yes, our bond was special and traditional and all about love.
Decades later, and long after his death, his loving memorial still lives on in the hearts of his three daughters.
51
Interesting (and sad?) that some posters here interpret the updating of the father-daughter dances to be more inclusive as being a denigration of father-daughter dances or relationships. Did anyone in the article say that father-daughter dances represented "oppression?" I didn't see that in the article at all.
12
Daddy Daughter Dances the next front in the war on the family. When will someone have the courage to say that the emperor is not wearing any clothes?
12
The Father-Daughter dance antiquated? Who comes up with this stuff? This is so far out in coo-coo land, it's unbelievable. This is a beautiful tradition that, like so many others, are being erased by sheer secular blindness.
47
My father died when I was 8. Thankfully, my school didn't have anything beyond that point that was exclusively focused on fathers. It's a shame you can't have any sympathy for children without fathers.
14
This dad is up early getting loads of laundry done, while everyone else is sleeping in, excitedly anticipating receiving a
Home Depot gift card, and then experiencing the pure joy I'll derive from buying a new hedge trimmer and breaking that bad boy out later today, busting through that daddy to do
list. THIS is living large.
Home Depot gift card, and then experiencing the pure joy I'll derive from buying a new hedge trimmer and breaking that bad boy out later today, busting through that daddy to do
list. THIS is living large.
43
Preach it brother.
2
Yes, by all means these dances should be eliminated. Just the concept of a heterosexual father is antiquated.
2
The concept of a heterosexual father isn't actually antiquated - I'm a liberal. I know lots. C'mon.
22
Stereotyping at its finest. The first time I heard about a father daughter dance I got nauseous. It promotes a princess attitude. Females should be put on pedestals, wear dresses, put on make-up and start thinking about finding prince charming. Why would we ever promote this in elementary age children of any gender? Harmful for boys and girls.
92
Agree, Lucy. Also, it probably makes boys feel that they are not prized nor celebrated.
3
Sure. They should alternate whittling and dancing in twirly dresses for both genders, whoever wants to do it. I'm serious, not sarcastic here.
This is news to me too.
A while ago, there were the REALLY weird high-school father-daughter 'purity dances', but where did these proms for little girls come from?
And why were teacher laughing at 'grown men' dancing to 'YMCA'? It was released in 1978.
This whole article seems as if it's from outer space.
A while ago, there were the REALLY weird high-school father-daughter 'purity dances', but where did these proms for little girls come from?
And why were teacher laughing at 'grown men' dancing to 'YMCA'? It was released in 1978.
This whole article seems as if it's from outer space.
7
I'm a father of two beautiful young girls. I spend every minute I can with them: reading, talking, hiking, skiing, etc... This is where I cultivate the special relationship and bond, not a some creepy dance with a bunch of grown men and 10 year old girls.
155
Thank you '96 Statesman! Yes, these "dances" are creepy. I don't care if the men/girls are related. The idea of having a "date" with your dressed up daughter is weird, imo. And no, I don't have a "dirty mind" as some people might infer (just because I don't like the idea).
I like your idea of spending all the time you can with them. Fatherhood is not a one-time event. My father spent lots of time with me growing up (and with my mother as a family unit). He would not have enjoyed a "father-daughter" dance, and I would have been embarrassed at such an event.
I like your idea of spending all the time you can with them. Fatherhood is not a one-time event. My father spent lots of time with me growing up (and with my mother as a family unit). He would not have enjoyed a "father-daughter" dance, and I would have been embarrassed at such an event.
1
To say that in these days of same sex marriages, father daughter dances seems antiquated, makes zero sense at any level.
31
My father died when I was 14 years old. The pillar of local society who was kind and gracious enough to escort me to my father-daughter dance attempted to sexually assault me. I carried years of shame and self-loathing related to that night. I skipped on reading this article.
23
I attended my first father daughter dance this year with my five year old, and my daughter was kind enough to spare once dance for me. The dance was about he girls, not their dates. It was a nice night for girls to get dressed up, dance, talk to their friends, show off and act like big shots. This article over complicates it.
113
When I was growing up girls did all that at this event we called a "slumber party"... without dads around. I wonder if these events are more about parents helicoptering over all child interactions.
1
If your 5-year-old danced with you once, who did she dance with the rest of the time? The other fathers?
at 5 years old?
1
I don't like this idea at all. It verges on the father being a kind of "boyfriend" for the little girl. At best, it is not a suitable activity for a child - boasting a glamor that is distinctly not childlike.
117
It is indeed confusing. I am a single dad who enjoys a great relationship with my daughters mom, which 50% physical and legal custody. I think traditionally most dads didn't spend so much time with their daughters, so these dances are a way to mitigate that and enrich the very important father-daughter relationship. I've heard that girls model who they choose as lovers and friends on their relationship with their dads, so I think this is a testament to that. However, obviously not everyone has a dad, and roles have certainly changed, where maybe mom spends more time at work than dad. Maybe just have a parents dance instead of a father-daughter dance?
2
So what's next? No dance with Dad at the wedding? I had a very dysfunctional relationship with an abusive father, but one of the only positive memories I have is standing in his shoes for my first dance. I danced with my Mom all the time--it's not the same thing. This is not to say that only father's can attend these dances and broadening the options is very healthy.
1
Or maybe it's just a special evening with Daddy where a girl can start to learn about the manners and customs surrounding formal events.
1
Calling this dances "dates" make it so weird. There are many other activities you can do with your dad without getting all "dolled-up": Hiking, going to a movie, etc... this is a very weird thing, just like these "purity" ceremonies where the daughter wears a ring her dad gives her.
49
I too was reminded of those purity ceremonies where the daughter is actually placed into a symbolic "marriage" with her own father! If not actually incestuous, it certainly points towards it in my opinion. These dances are a slightly softer version.
@fotoflo:
The "purity dances" came to my mind too. They are occasions where the girl pledges that she'll remain a virgin till marriage. In the meanwhile they are required to act as if their father is their husband. I've seen photographs and they are gross.... So I got unsettled by the photo of the child in what looks like a wedding dress on her way to the dance.
I'm aghast at the notion that going to a dance and behaving as a "date" is the only time and way a father can bond with his daughter?
The "purity dances" came to my mind too. They are occasions where the girl pledges that she'll remain a virgin till marriage. In the meanwhile they are required to act as if their father is their husband. I've seen photographs and they are gross.... So I got unsettled by the photo of the child in what looks like a wedding dress on her way to the dance.
I'm aghast at the notion that going to a dance and behaving as a "date" is the only time and way a father can bond with his daughter?
1
Great tradition.
Don't care if it offends same sex couples.
Get over it.
Don't care if it offends same sex couples.
Get over it.
45
What about the feelings of girls whose fathers (like mine) died, or girls whose fathers are not involved in their lives? Is it a great tradition for them?
11
We don't care if we offend you either. (Just in case that's not perfectly clear to you.)
And we got over you a long time ago. Now there's work to be done.
And we got over you a long time ago. Now there's work to be done.
2
Dad as the guardian of a daughter's sexual life (chastity balls) or role model for her inteactions with future sexual parnetrs Is so creepy. Just have a fun family day.
38
I think it is creepy to dress up an adorable little girl to look like a mini bride, complete with bridal bouquet, with Dad as escort. Dance with Dad, 2 Dads, Mom, 2 Moms, ... sure thing! But as a bride? Give the child a break.
13
Detroit father Tom Burns, midway through this article, says it perfectly. His daughter is going to learn about respect from how he treats her mother, not by going to a faux prom, "a really weird idea".
194
“I’m all for events that bring kids and their parents together,” he said. “I just don’t know why we settled on this one really weird idea.”
Do the schools have a boys oriented dance as well? Or is it a sports themed boys' event? As an educator, I see the value of providing opportunities for parents and children to engage socially and for young people to be exposed to social customs in a non-threatening way. Nevertheless, most of these events seem designed to reinforce "traditional" gender roles, and I applaud those schools who are trying to expand the definition of parent.
Do the schools have a boys oriented dance as well? Or is it a sports themed boys' event? As an educator, I see the value of providing opportunities for parents and children to engage socially and for young people to be exposed to social customs in a non-threatening way. Nevertheless, most of these events seem designed to reinforce "traditional" gender roles, and I applaud those schools who are trying to expand the definition of parent.
22
"She is going to learn about respect — how a woman should expect respect and admiration and support from a partner — by how I treat her mom, not me going to a faux prom with her.”
Yes. This sums up my thoughts exactly! I never attended a father-daughter dance as a child, but was very lucky to have an amazing dad who treated me and my Mom and sister with love and respect and kindness. He made us feel safe and also taught us independence.
Yes. This sums up my thoughts exactly! I never attended a father-daughter dance as a child, but was very lucky to have an amazing dad who treated me and my Mom and sister with love and respect and kindness. He made us feel safe and also taught us independence.
46
I've always had a great relationship with my dad, but agree the romantic undertones of these father-daughter dances are kind of creepy. I helped my dad work on the car or in the yard.
29
@FilmFan
Perfectly expressed!
Perfectly expressed!
My dad taught me how to dance. First, by standing on his shoes (see Leon Redbone's "Dancin' on Daddy's Shoes") and later as a real partner. Dancing with him was magical, and I would have loved the opportunity to go to a dance with him as my partner. for the evening. Our understanding of changed family structures is essential to a better world, so I am pleased to see that reflected in these events. Keep them going! There is something so sweet in seeing a parent (or uncle or aunt or whomever) sharing the dance floor with his/her youngster. Makes me smile.
31
You want to make people run to Trump, trash talk father-daughter dances. Why does an institution like a father-daughter dance have to be held up as an instrument of oppression? Anything that strengthens and celebrates a family bond like this should be celebrated. By all means find ways to include more children with great bonds (or not so great bonds) with their parents, but to dilute it so traditional families' relationships are denigrated, disdained, and dismissed as reflective of an age of intolerance leads to the kind of nonsense, where, as happened in Emerson College this past month, one race seeks to exclude another from everything for a day and the ACLU and the like do not bat an eye.
60
This article is not "trash talking" father-daughter dances. Many voices are represented in this story, but apparently hearing other points of view makes people like you "run to Donald Trump" (as if though he is a paragon of traditional values).
10
Wasn't Emerson, it was Evergreen. But, I understand what you are saying.
Seems everyone is so in to making little boys & girls exactly alike that it is ludicrous.
A father daughter dance, sporting event, literary tea, whatever, can include parents of other genders if the normally required one isn't available (many fathers work nights, dances are out). If that idea makes the child feel weird, then look for a trusted male to take his place. Or a trusted female. Or older brother/sister. Those with fathers won't care. Something mother son should also be on the calendar. Just please make it something that most boys enjoy? Dancing isn't it. Maybe even let them decide. Could be a wood working class (teach a boy to work with written directions & someday some woman will convince him it's no different than cooking with a recipe). Father daughter cooking class, someday a man will convince her that it's no different than building something from directions.
It is the adults who sexualize things like this, not the kids. They are just proud to be with Dad. Mom, not so much because all kids spend more time with one parent (the one who takes care of them), that one isn't quite so special. If you have 2 dads or 2 moms or only one parent, it's the same. Sort of a 'see what I have'. Somewhat on a par (at 7) with look at this neat lizard I have, but, it's better than a yuck.
Seems everyone is so in to making little boys & girls exactly alike that it is ludicrous.
A father daughter dance, sporting event, literary tea, whatever, can include parents of other genders if the normally required one isn't available (many fathers work nights, dances are out). If that idea makes the child feel weird, then look for a trusted male to take his place. Or a trusted female. Or older brother/sister. Those with fathers won't care. Something mother son should also be on the calendar. Just please make it something that most boys enjoy? Dancing isn't it. Maybe even let them decide. Could be a wood working class (teach a boy to work with written directions & someday some woman will convince him it's no different than cooking with a recipe). Father daughter cooking class, someday a man will convince her that it's no different than building something from directions.
It is the adults who sexualize things like this, not the kids. They are just proud to be with Dad. Mom, not so much because all kids spend more time with one parent (the one who takes care of them), that one isn't quite so special. If you have 2 dads or 2 moms or only one parent, it's the same. Sort of a 'see what I have'. Somewhat on a par (at 7) with look at this neat lizard I have, but, it's better than a yuck.
5
Practically any event that includes one person or more can be attacked for whatever its presumed and assumed values. To the spirit of the commenters both within and on the sidelines of this article, take a breath. Not every human activity is symbolic of everything wrong under the sun. It's just another example of driving adult symbolic values to lower levels of maturity so far that the children no longer understand the point. My daughter graduated from kindergarten wearing a gown and mortarboard with a procession to "Pomp and Circumstance". For this occasion, it seemed to her like Halloween. For the several repetitions thereafter (6th grade, 8th grade, high school and college) it remained a costume party to her that perfectly illustrated how adults can ruin most anything by making it some kind of imitative milestone. Symbolic acts are supposed to illustrate internal transitions of values and growth. Today, not so much.
40
On Father's Day it's usual to read encomiums to Dad (for which thanks). Every other day, I guess, is Kids's Day, when Dads can give thanks for the things that make their days light up, however cloudy, like the sound of a daughter or son saying "Hi Daddy," or the willingness to laugh (even if it comes to sound like a groan) at "Dad jokes." So for tomorrow (and yesterday) Happy Daughters and Sons Day.
1
The first picture in this article is adorable. The Father-Daughter Dance worked for us, but I understand how it can be problematic for what used to be non-traditional families.
12
I have fond memories and pictures with my bad hair style of a Father-daughter dance in 1998 with my daughter.
Some girls (are we still allowed to call them "girls" in this politically correct environment?) were escorted by uncles, older brothers, grandfathers. It was fun and another bonding activity. I also coached sports, went to pta meetings and tried to fully participate in the lives of daughters and son.
While there are today more different kinds of families, that doesn't mean there should be an assault on traditional ones or opportunities such as father-daughter events whether it be dance, sports, scouting or other.
If commentators don't like traditional events like these, don't attend them.
Some girls (are we still allowed to call them "girls" in this politically correct environment?) were escorted by uncles, older brothers, grandfathers. It was fun and another bonding activity. I also coached sports, went to pta meetings and tried to fully participate in the lives of daughters and son.
While there are today more different kinds of families, that doesn't mean there should be an assault on traditional ones or opportunities such as father-daughter events whether it be dance, sports, scouting or other.
If commentators don't like traditional events like these, don't attend them.
71
roy nirschel: Some girls (are we still allowed to call them "girls" in this politically correct environment?) were escorted by uncles, older brothers, grandfathers.
If they are female and under 18, they are girls.
Age 18 or over, women. Not girls, ladies, honeys, sweethearts . . . women.
If they are female and under 18, they are girls.
Age 18 or over, women. Not girls, ladies, honeys, sweethearts . . . women.
11
It's sad that your tradition is more important than children's feelings. My school never had anything like this, thankfully. My father died when I was young, and I had no brother and no nearby uncles or grandfathers. I wouldn't have been allowed to attend by virtue of a lack of relatives of the right gender. That seems rather mean and exclusionary to this adult.
6
You still don't seem to get it. It's not about the adults. It's not about you. It's about the kids. EVERY child needs to feel included and welcome to attend.
2
My daughter's complaint was that her school had a father-daughter dance but mother-son snow tubing. She wasn't interested in the dance. Snow tubing was way more fun.
138
Thank you Margery! This couldn't be a better example of why this idea is silly and enforces awful stereotypes. Daughters get to dress up and pretend to be a date/bride, while sons get to go outside and play.
Everyone complaining about political correctness and non-traditional families spoiling your "fun," please really try to understand Margery's anecdote. This is the crux of the problem.
Everyone complaining about political correctness and non-traditional families spoiling your "fun," please really try to understand Margery's anecdote. This is the crux of the problem.
I grew up with a dad who traveled a lot for work, so he usually wasn't around for these, and I'd just bring my mom. But they weren't school sponsored, they were run by girls scouts. I think it's odd that a school would organize an event for only half their student population. Is there a similar mother son dance?
20
I had quite forgotten the father-daughter dinner (don't remember dancing) my Camp Fire group held about 60+ years ago. My father also traveled for work, so our neighbor went with me. I don't recall any trauma; my father being out of town was normal.
I agree - why have a dance for the girls? Why not a ball game, something more physical, more masculine?
I agree - why have a dance for the girls? Why not a ball game, something more physical, more masculine?
7
I would never go to one anyway. Families are developed in the home. At dinner, on weekends, after school. Spend time with your kids everyday and you won't need a dance to create or strengthen your bond. A nice benefit of that is you don't have to get involved in all the politics and debate that come with any organized event these days that doesn't accomodate every possible situation of the potential participants. Can't get out of bed without offending someone.
29
Not only is it odd, it's such a painful ordeal for children in non-traditional households (I'm in a traditional household, but i have divorced siblings) and really, who wants it? Answer, the type A crazy, gotta be in charge of PTA to have a fulfilling life, parent. I know, that's a gross generalization but lots of you are nodding in agreement. Many of these events are just parental validations.
99
Then don't do it but don't discourage others because you're family doesn't have the tight bond other do.
10
My family had a tight bond. My father died when I was 8. Such a thing would have been a painful ordeal for me, too, unless they opted for something more inclusive. It's a shame that people so intent on tradition can't see beyond their own nose.
5
Pretty cynical - but possibly accurate...
1
Some expressed concern,” Mr. McCord said, asking, “‘Are we downgrading the role of the father?’"
No, and by the way, that's the wrong question to ask.
The proper question, to me, would involve seeing this through the eyes of the child who has no father - for any reason. If a child has two mothers, or has lost their father, or for whatever reason cannot be represented by a traditional dad at the dance, why should that child be penalized? Why should that child not be permitted to participate?
This is not about the diminishing of fathers' roles in society. It is not about religion, politics, or ideology. It is about the ability to create a platform that allows *every* child to be attend - and be represented - at this wonderful event.
Get every kid out on that dance floor. Period.
No, and by the way, that's the wrong question to ask.
The proper question, to me, would involve seeing this through the eyes of the child who has no father - for any reason. If a child has two mothers, or has lost their father, or for whatever reason cannot be represented by a traditional dad at the dance, why should that child be penalized? Why should that child not be permitted to participate?
This is not about the diminishing of fathers' roles in society. It is not about religion, politics, or ideology. It is about the ability to create a platform that allows *every* child to be attend - and be represented - at this wonderful event.
Get every kid out on that dance floor. Period.
130
They aren't being penalized, just like I wasn't being penalized for never having a Mom at maturation/puberty programs, doctor appts, school appts, Mother/Daughter Easter brunches etc. They don't organize this kind of thing to attack anyone in particular. To see it that way is distorted. Substitute someone - it's not that hard. Help the kid understand how lucky they are to take a super special guest, and they will be thrilled.
3
This comment is perfect. We didn't have such occasions when I was in school, so when I began to notice their proliferation much later in life, I wondered how I would have felt if I had had to face the additional pain of exclusion after my father died when I was three. Life is hard enough for children.
3
I've never heard of such an event, where ANY child was excluded for lacking a father -- no matter the reason -- you can bring other male adults like uncles, older brothers, friends of the family, grandpa -- some schools let Mom sub for Dad.
The problem I see isn't in the dance, or who comes, but in the whole lefty liberal PC paradigm -- where you can't do ANYTHING without being critiqued to death about who you are leaving out or excluding, whose precious little feelings are hurt, etc.
It is the families without fathers -- DELIBERATELY without -- that are the problem. Not father/daughter dances.
The problem I see isn't in the dance, or who comes, but in the whole lefty liberal PC paradigm -- where you can't do ANYTHING without being critiqued to death about who you are leaving out or excluding, whose precious little feelings are hurt, etc.
It is the families without fathers -- DELIBERATELY without -- that are the problem. Not father/daughter dances.
4
The idea of going on a date with your dad seems very strange. They didn't have these dances when I was growing up, although apparently the elementary schools there started them long after I'd graduated from high school.
Was this really a tradition or was this part of 90's rhetoric about so-called "absent" fathers?
Was this really a tradition or was this part of 90's rhetoric about so-called "absent" fathers?
47
I'm not sure where you grew up. Maybe this is a local phenomenon/custom. I grew up in the late 50's/early 60's in NYC and it was definitely a thing already, a pretty entrenched event. So it's not part of any 90's rhetoric about absent Dads.
I get why some people are uncomfortable with the pseudo-dating aura of the father/daughter dance. Maybe some other, less teen-like event would be better. When my sons were little, the Cub Scouts always had a father/son camping weekend at the end of the school year that was always something they looked forward to. And there was a mother/son Holiday lunch where the boys planned the menu. prepared the food & served before sitting down to eat with their moms (or grandmothers, aunts, sisters, etc.). Also lots of fun and without the borderline pseudo-dating vibe of the dance.
I get why some people are uncomfortable with the pseudo-dating aura of the father/daughter dance. Maybe some other, less teen-like event would be better. When my sons were little, the Cub Scouts always had a father/son camping weekend at the end of the school year that was always something they looked forward to. And there was a mother/son Holiday lunch where the boys planned the menu. prepared the food & served before sitting down to eat with their moms (or grandmothers, aunts, sisters, etc.). Also lots of fun and without the borderline pseudo-dating vibe of the dance.
69
It must have been a "northern" thing then; I never heard of such a thing in the places where I lived (Georgia and North Carolina) until the 1990s, and most of them were church- or community-sponsored, not school-sponsored. Schools in our area don't sponsor any such events now, as far as I know.
1
I completely agree with Tom Burns in the story. There is something creepy about having fathers role play boyfriends.
14