Now we sunk to new lows where China gets to admonish US?
I can see Trump diverting the crisis of potential global thermonuclear war
"So Xi, enough on North Korea, tell me more about how this wall thing works, I mean, can you give me any tips?"
"So Xi, enough on North Korea, tell me more about how this wall thing works, I mean, can you give me any tips?"
I have a solution for North Korea.
I think it's without question they will never give up the nuclear weapons - UNLESS- the world doesn't give up on North Korea.
I argue- nations of the world ? Send North Korea all your surplus grains- foods- goods. And even then some.
Let the entire collection of nations in the world send gifts to North Korea for the people.
The read I get on Kim is he's rather Westernized, I think he isn't happy about having to inherit the 'project' bestowed upon him.
I also truly think North Korea has amazing potential for tourism, getting Kim Jong Un on board can be EASILY done with money and maybe a nice house and two pools beside it next to Dennis Rodman. Ok, throw in 10 billion cash but really, 10 billion cash ponied up by nations of the world is a LOT less expensive than TRILLIONS in health care from nuclear fallout? Let alone all other costs from destruction OF the eve we are upon? I like my 'eve' - my evening sunsets plutonium free. If a basket of bananas can prevent that ? then so be it.
I think if Kim gets on board? He alone can use that centralized power he has, that people unconditionally - sure out of fear of being killed or sent to camp 21 (an infelicitous labor camp) - but he COULD USE that power to his advantage to say- OKAY EVERYONE - today- we become North Korea THEME PARK - Pick up your paychecks on Fridays- we all have jobs - be nice to the visitors to the park, let us all look back on this page in history and learn
I think it's without question they will never give up the nuclear weapons - UNLESS- the world doesn't give up on North Korea.
I argue- nations of the world ? Send North Korea all your surplus grains- foods- goods. And even then some.
Let the entire collection of nations in the world send gifts to North Korea for the people.
The read I get on Kim is he's rather Westernized, I think he isn't happy about having to inherit the 'project' bestowed upon him.
I also truly think North Korea has amazing potential for tourism, getting Kim Jong Un on board can be EASILY done with money and maybe a nice house and two pools beside it next to Dennis Rodman. Ok, throw in 10 billion cash but really, 10 billion cash ponied up by nations of the world is a LOT less expensive than TRILLIONS in health care from nuclear fallout? Let alone all other costs from destruction OF the eve we are upon? I like my 'eve' - my evening sunsets plutonium free. If a basket of bananas can prevent that ? then so be it.
I think if Kim gets on board? He alone can use that centralized power he has, that people unconditionally - sure out of fear of being killed or sent to camp 21 (an infelicitous labor camp) - but he COULD USE that power to his advantage to say- OKAY EVERYONE - today- we become North Korea THEME PARK - Pick up your paychecks on Fridays- we all have jobs - be nice to the visitors to the park, let us all look back on this page in history and learn
1
What goes on in Kim's mind? Given the grave situation one should put aside all prejudices and one should also not to be afraid to be politically incorrect. So if people will call my explanation racist, I challenge them to come up with a better one.
Koreans, and many Asians, are good in copying. They focus on it. Kim or North Korea, are copying the components of the nuclear deterrence forces developed by the US and Russia. It is well known that use of these forces was considered to be in no one's interest, as shown by the acronym MAD for 'mutually assured destruction'.
This dependence on copying instead of creativity may result in an inferiority complex and envy in some Asians (compare the envy of Jewish creativity by antisemites). Most inventions and new cultural developments have been the work of Caucasians, by Europeans in the past, and mostly white Americans at present. I once read in a book on WWII that during the Japanese occupation of Indonesia many Indonesians thought that Japan could never win the war because they 'only could copy', and could not invent such as the whites could.
Moreover, many people are guided by the wish to be a celebrity, to be important, to be in the spotlight. Kim's nuclear arsenal puts him in the spotlight. He will be noticed. So that may be his motivation as well.
Given that Kim has little regard for human life, including the lives of his own people, the situation is grave, and indeed getting worse.
I hope I am wrong.
Koreans, and many Asians, are good in copying. They focus on it. Kim or North Korea, are copying the components of the nuclear deterrence forces developed by the US and Russia. It is well known that use of these forces was considered to be in no one's interest, as shown by the acronym MAD for 'mutually assured destruction'.
This dependence on copying instead of creativity may result in an inferiority complex and envy in some Asians (compare the envy of Jewish creativity by antisemites). Most inventions and new cultural developments have been the work of Caucasians, by Europeans in the past, and mostly white Americans at present. I once read in a book on WWII that during the Japanese occupation of Indonesia many Indonesians thought that Japan could never win the war because they 'only could copy', and could not invent such as the whites could.
Moreover, many people are guided by the wish to be a celebrity, to be important, to be in the spotlight. Kim's nuclear arsenal puts him in the spotlight. He will be noticed. So that may be his motivation as well.
Given that Kim has little regard for human life, including the lives of his own people, the situation is grave, and indeed getting worse.
I hope I am wrong.
Well, your commentary got one thing absolutely right, it is racist.
I'll give this one to Trump - he did inherit a mess re. North Korea and he alone will not solve this problem, so enough of the saber rattling as it only fires up that nutcase. This is an international crisis the likes of which eclipses "the weapons of mass destruction" fiasco and, at least for the present, does call for "restraint" as the Chinese caution. The United Nations Security Council needs to aggressively push for increased sanctions although it is doubtful that Russia and China are really showing their hands. Japan and South Korea have much to lose in the event of a military scenario as the North is capable of turning that section of the world into a nuclear nightmare with incalculable devastation. It is obvious that a preemptive attack on North Korea might temporally resolve matters but this too would likely result in untold civilian deaths and unforeseen retaliation most likely against South Korea and Japan. But it is of course impossible to predict outcomes with so many scenarios possible. For the moment it seems most appropriate for the United States to advocate for the following: messages to China and Russia to pony up and stop using North Korea as chip in their respective dealings with us; increased pressure on China to step up sanctions; continued message to North Korea their unabated actions will result in continued and stiffer sanctions with military intervention the ultimate option; and continued movement toward diplomatic talks involving all parties.
This could br resolved by addressing two tinder boxes simulaneusly. Xi pressures North Korea to abandon their nuclear weapons program and Trump does the same with Israel. Two countries quickly escape the cost of developing and retaining nuclear weapons. For the World hard working peaceful family people the threat of war diminishes while the prospect for peace increases.
1
Right. Great logic.And how about a BDS move on Israel to force N.Korea to give up the bomb.
1
It's amazing how tepidly much of the media and folks in general are viewing the current situation with North Korea. This is the major global story of the moment- we are on the path to War with NK. Yet, to the greatest extent everyone seems to be blissfully ignorant to the situation.
We cannot allow NK to continue their nuclear and missile development. Kim and his regime cannot abandon their program. China appears content to skirt around the edges and reckon on the fallout- and it very well might be 'real fallout' in the nuclear sense. Bluffs have been called, the time has come to show cards- we are quickly approaching the zero hour.
Where is the reporting, where is the urgency? Trump is sending the signals, probably more intended for the Chinese. He has called the entire senate to a briefing about national security and North Korea, the only other occasions this has occurred was as a precursor to War. Where is the reporting?
One thing seems certain, conflict with NK will result in the use of Nuclear force, and as for the aftermath... regionally? globally?
The time is NOW for China to show their cards.
We cannot allow NK to continue their nuclear and missile development. Kim and his regime cannot abandon their program. China appears content to skirt around the edges and reckon on the fallout- and it very well might be 'real fallout' in the nuclear sense. Bluffs have been called, the time has come to show cards- we are quickly approaching the zero hour.
Where is the reporting, where is the urgency? Trump is sending the signals, probably more intended for the Chinese. He has called the entire senate to a briefing about national security and North Korea, the only other occasions this has occurred was as a precursor to War. Where is the reporting?
One thing seems certain, conflict with NK will result in the use of Nuclear force, and as for the aftermath... regionally? globally?
The time is NOW for China to show their cards.
5
Totally agree. The media is not treating this with the attention it deserves.
1
This is bogus, -- China has been enabling North Korea for many years -- as a defense against the US fighting back against China on China's' aggressive Trade practices
Its very obvious: "Don't start a trade war with us," China implicitly says, "Because you need us to rein in North Korea." -- all while China keeps supporting and encouraging North Korea to build more and more bombs.
The more bombs North Korea builds, the more China says the US "needs" China to control North Korea, which means we "must" let China keep getting its way on Trade.
It is time to stop this -- China and North Korea are playing the US like a chump.
No -- its over -- North Korea must go down. Now. Completely and absolutely and quickly -- it must have no ability to retaliate by bombing other neighbor countries. Partial solutions and compromises are how we got into this mess.
Its very obvious: "Don't start a trade war with us," China implicitly says, "Because you need us to rein in North Korea." -- all while China keeps supporting and encouraging North Korea to build more and more bombs.
The more bombs North Korea builds, the more China says the US "needs" China to control North Korea, which means we "must" let China keep getting its way on Trade.
It is time to stop this -- China and North Korea are playing the US like a chump.
No -- its over -- North Korea must go down. Now. Completely and absolutely and quickly -- it must have no ability to retaliate by bombing other neighbor countries. Partial solutions and compromises are how we got into this mess.
2
Oh I see. We must annihilate North Korea. Would you include carpet bombs in your repertoire?
This is bogus, -- China has been enabling North Korea for many years -- as a defense against the US fighting back against China on China's' aggressive Trade practices
Its very obvious: "Don't start a trade war with us," China implicitly says, "Because you need us to rein in North Korea." -- all while China keeps supporting and encouraging North Korea to build more and more bombs.
The more bombs North Korea builds, the more China says the US "needs" China to control North Korea, which means we "must" let China keep getting its way on Trade.
It is time to stop this -- China and North Korea are playing the US like a chump.
Its very obvious: "Don't start a trade war with us," China implicitly says, "Because you need us to rein in North Korea." -- all while China keeps supporting and encouraging North Korea to build more and more bombs.
The more bombs North Korea builds, the more China says the US "needs" China to control North Korea, which means we "must" let China keep getting its way on Trade.
It is time to stop this -- China and North Korea are playing the US like a chump.
North Korea has seriously (and not surprisingly) misread this situation.
Regardless of what China wants and regardless of any leverage they claim to be able to exercise against this nut job (the one in Pyongyang - not the one in The White House), at some point, America will collectively tire of dealing with this situation as a constant threat. We have lives to deal with, lawns to mow, daily commutes to make, ballgames to shuttle children to and from. The lives of a largely obscure and secretive people who have willfully isolated themselves from the rest of the world will not matter when balanced with our own interests and those of our allies in the region. And when Trump pulls that trigger, which you know is as inevitable as his looming impeachment, I'm guessing there won't be a whole lot of hand-wringing here in the West.
It's been my experience that Americans have no distaste for war. What they have no stomach for is inaction, endless churn and threats from abroad.
Regardless of what China wants and regardless of any leverage they claim to be able to exercise against this nut job (the one in Pyongyang - not the one in The White House), at some point, America will collectively tire of dealing with this situation as a constant threat. We have lives to deal with, lawns to mow, daily commutes to make, ballgames to shuttle children to and from. The lives of a largely obscure and secretive people who have willfully isolated themselves from the rest of the world will not matter when balanced with our own interests and those of our allies in the region. And when Trump pulls that trigger, which you know is as inevitable as his looming impeachment, I'm guessing there won't be a whole lot of hand-wringing here in the West.
It's been my experience that Americans have no distaste for war. What they have no stomach for is inaction, endless churn and threats from abroad.
1
"Chinese diplomats have urged the United States to suspend major military exercises with South Korea in return for North Korea’s suspending nuclear and missile tests."
It would be reasonable to take up the Chinese offer. If the North Koreans renege, this would give the US more leverage to ask Beijing to increase sanctions.
It would be reasonable to take up the Chinese offer. If the North Koreans renege, this would give the US more leverage to ask Beijing to increase sanctions.
2
Trump found a way to dodge from 45% import tax on China, N Korea was a convenient excuse. China is vigorously becoming a world power and Trump has no way to stand up to China. China will use N Korea as a proxy for war and keep US promising they will do something but they will not Chinese are shrewd and merciless. Trump is no match to the Chinese president.
The last thing we should be doing is cancelling exercises. This is the way we actually train to fight with our allies which means we are prepared to win. North Korea knows this which is why they want us to cancel the exercises. Mr, Kim is too unpredictable to trust with a large arsenal of nuclear weapons. It can't be his way anymore.
Restraint? Fine, but solution does China have for dealing with Kim? Let's not be ridiculous. Diplomacy and restraint are impossible with North Korea. They are determined to blackmail the entire world with nuclear weapons.
2
It is inescapable that the leadership in North Korea is so dangerous and unpredictable that it must be stopped. It is equally inescapable that the colossally unprepared and ego-maniacal Trump is not the person to lead this effort. But this is the time and place in which we find ourselves. Let us hope that the War College training of some of Trump's top advisers have sufficient influence on him so that catastrophe may be avoided.
1
China is using N Korea as proxy against US and using Pakistan as proxy against India both democratic countries. Chinese leadership wants to dominate the world and it seems like no one is willing to stand up or stop them.
2
It was not so long ago tensions were extremely high and volatile with China because of their human rights records. China has changed tremendously since then as a country and military threats and actions played no part of in this. The evolution came through political and social dialogue and behaviour gradually improving their trust. The same approach overtime could possibly work with North Korea. The old saying "keep your friends close and your enemies even closer" is probably the best analogy. Also there is another good piece of guidance that can be taken from fiction writing from Gene Roddenberry with the meaning of the Prime Directive which basically means; we may not agree with your culture or politics but we will respect your right to govern yourselves the way you want to be. No nation has the right to play the world piece unless invited to do so.
China needs to keep working to calm the current American propensity to threaten every which way. We need to return to diplomacy.
3
Sorry, but diplomacy hasn't worked since Nixon accepted it after the deaths of 31 Americans when NK shot down an American plane in 1971. Successive wishful thinking diplomats have brought us to this place.
Earth to China -- we and the rest of the world have had "restraint" with North Korea while the South gained a top economic position in the world while the South gained a brutal, dictator family that destroyed its citizens.
Almost forget the planet-ending realities of this paranoid NK jerk, how about the poor people. Chine, you've had 60 years to fix the problem -- either step up NOW, or admit you're not strong enough a country to make a difference.
NOW. No Restraint!
Almost forget the planet-ending realities of this paranoid NK jerk, how about the poor people. Chine, you've had 60 years to fix the problem -- either step up NOW, or admit you're not strong enough a country to make a difference.
NOW. No Restraint!
6
China needs to persuade Trump that verbal threats, nuclear tests, and missile launches don't justify a first strike. I think it can do so.
But what about a repeat of border skirmishes in the late 1960s that killed over 3 dozen US soldiers? Or the taking of another vessel in international waters like the USS Pueblo with the holding of the US crew for a yr, also in the late 1960s? Trump is implusive, and these warlike acts may well suffice. Good thing that N Korea has not repeated these outrages, at least against the US, for nearly 50 yrs.
Somehow, someone must help Trump acquire context, and fast. Trump shocks at several levels, but his lack of historical and cultural contexts is perhaps most worrisome. He seems to have almost no sense that anything has preceded him other than Obama, Clinton, and his father.
It seems from its track record the past 50 yrs that N Korea is capable of caution. N Korea needs to understand that we have now joined them in governance by a cult of personality, but we remain militarily and economically a force that N Korea cannot even measure. Lacking any semblance of gravitas, the leader of the free world doesn't even know where his ships are, but we must assume that he can and will erase N Korea from the map if he thinks he, and I mean he, has been provoked.
I've never known a real estate developer with a destructive bent. But if the chocolate cake one night is a bust and the nuclear football is handy, who knows?
But what about a repeat of border skirmishes in the late 1960s that killed over 3 dozen US soldiers? Or the taking of another vessel in international waters like the USS Pueblo with the holding of the US crew for a yr, also in the late 1960s? Trump is implusive, and these warlike acts may well suffice. Good thing that N Korea has not repeated these outrages, at least against the US, for nearly 50 yrs.
Somehow, someone must help Trump acquire context, and fast. Trump shocks at several levels, but his lack of historical and cultural contexts is perhaps most worrisome. He seems to have almost no sense that anything has preceded him other than Obama, Clinton, and his father.
It seems from its track record the past 50 yrs that N Korea is capable of caution. N Korea needs to understand that we have now joined them in governance by a cult of personality, but we remain militarily and economically a force that N Korea cannot even measure. Lacking any semblance of gravitas, the leader of the free world doesn't even know where his ships are, but we must assume that he can and will erase N Korea from the map if he thinks he, and I mean he, has been provoked.
I've never known a real estate developer with a destructive bent. But if the chocolate cake one night is a bust and the nuclear football is handy, who knows?
2
Jinping can't sink a twelve foot putt...
Restraint is not one of Comrade Trump's seventy word vocabulary...Sorry...
(see photo) "Can you send me some of them delicious ducks to me?"
Restraint is not one of Comrade Trump's seventy word vocabulary...Sorry...
(see photo) "Can you send me some of them delicious ducks to me?"
1
My guess is that Trump used the call as an opportunity to talk about a piece of pie he ate a few days ago. I mean does anyone think the orange fool and his circle of toadies and his greedy daughter and airhead son-in-law know what they are doing. As much as I despite Mike Pence as a homophobic misogynistic Evangelical fanatic, he is a reasonably competent man. Trump had a face to face the interview with the AP where portions of the transcript read unintelligible.
2
Trump needs to appoint Dennis Rodman ambassador to North Korea to get a dialogue up and running with Lil' Kim. Those two, Rodman and Kim, seemed to hit it off pretty well in 2014.
It wouldn't be the craziest thing Trump has every done.
Trump would likely spin it along the lines of when Nixon sent Kissinger to China. And his base would cheer him bigly for it.
It wouldn't be the craziest thing Trump has every done.
Trump would likely spin it along the lines of when Nixon sent Kissinger to China. And his base would cheer him bigly for it.
1
Kim's current round of saber rattling is not much different than his previous ones, or those of his father. Trump pays undue attention to this, when he should be finding ways of permanently stripping his enemies of power at home. China, for its part, is largely willing to compromise on economic issues, as long as they do not obstruct China's rise.
2
NoKor is doing what Iraq CANNOT, protecting their own citizens from war, act of murder. Looking at US behavior, if not for nuclear deterrent, NoKor would have been invaded. NoKoreans have every right as any free nation around the world to "Right to Defend" there country and people, and follow due process of their own choice for change at the speed they choose. For US to threaten NoKor for right to protect their women and children, shows how dangerous this world is without nuclear deterrent. Unlike Iraq women and children, NoKorean women and children will not regret their path to future determined by NoKorea, not by foreign dictatorship. Let the world view and see what happens to those who HAVE nuclear deterrent, and US will help prove it! There are two outcomes: NoKorea defend their nation with nuclear options peacefully, or North Korea and US destroy themselves with US, South Korea and Japan's economies in the dust along with world economy. Nice....all that for nuclear monopoly. Life is fair for everyone, not just for US citizens. Equality is not for US citizens alone, but for EVERYONE. Right to defend is RIGHT for ALL, not just for US citizens. Is this too hard to understand or just proud to be the dictatorship for the world. Do NOT kid yourself, US, as you are NOT symbol or democratic nation for the world. Accepting US demand will only invite more threats later and faster path to war without nuclear deterrent.
Ummmmmm - you have some notion that North Korea has real nukes? They don't have range to hit America, they don't have range to hit much of anything, nor particularly effective warheads.
This fantasy that we would destroy each other is just a fantasy.
Nor is North Korea in any way interested in protecting their citizens - they use them, torture them, keep them in poverty, kill them at a whim.
This fantasy that we would destroy each other is just a fantasy.
Nor is North Korea in any way interested in protecting their citizens - they use them, torture them, keep them in poverty, kill them at a whim.
2
Would you sacrifice Paris to save France, and prevent a potential attack on the U.S.? That's essentially what the military option against N. Korea requires. The N. Koreans have powerful deterrence against all forms of attack because their conventional artillery holds Seoul hostage, and could reduce the city to rubble in a matter of a few hours. I don't know anyone who has a special list of options that make this situation get better.
2
Purposely targeting civilians (i.e. Seoul) is a war crime, and following orders is no defense.
As for Seoul, they have had decades to prepare for this eventuality.
North Korea has to go. It is as simple as that.
As for Seoul, they have had decades to prepare for this eventuality.
North Korea has to go. It is as simple as that.
1
With each passing day, it becomes more and more obvious that the Trump presidency is a failed catastrophe. In less than one hundred days, this supposed president of the United States elected by fools, ignorance and stupidity, has brought this country to the brink of nuclear war. He has made this country the laughing stock of the world. A spineless and gutless congress sits on there rear ends and does absolutely nothing. If this aberration is allowed to continue to destroy this country, we have no one to blame but ourselves.
This entire nightmare is suddenly becoming deadly serious. The man that most reasonable people considered a bad joke, is now in a position to get million of people killed. This is no longer funny or even amusing.
This entire nightmare is suddenly becoming deadly serious. The man that most reasonable people considered a bad joke, is now in a position to get million of people killed. This is no longer funny or even amusing.
11
Trump brought us to the brink of nuclear war? Not the US Presidents who for the last 45 years have allowed North Korea to say one thing to our diplomats and do something entirely different?
Not the successive presidents who looked the other way and got us to this position?
Trump at least is facing this imminent disaster, entirely NOT of his making, and forcing us all to think about the unthinkable.
Not the successive presidents who looked the other way and got us to this position?
Trump at least is facing this imminent disaster, entirely NOT of his making, and forcing us all to think about the unthinkable.
The question is whether President Trump can actually work with President Xi. I surely hope so, since Xi understands diplomacy while Trump is only just learning.
1
Xi understands diplomacy? Then why doesn't China step up to the plate and stop being an ally of North Korea? Cut off economic ties and all trade with North Korea? Thanks for your help China.
1
And where is the State Department?
6
For all practical purposes, we have no State Department. Putin's stooge, Rex Tillerson is running the show at State, so we're told.
2
The only reason that Tillerson was appointed Secretary of State, is to insure that the Trump coffers are filled with Russian oil money. As to how he handles United States matters, Trump could care less. This is all about Trump and money. Tillerson is just another high level thief in the Trump White House.
1
Run from Russia remotely. No doubt they'd be happy to have America and China have a proxy war.
We need to back off. Yes, Kim is a dictator and his people are enslaved, but we need to remove our the new defense system we installed in the south and cut out the provocative tests and most importantly - TALK. We did this in the 90's and under 'W' and we did achieve stability. It's ridiculous to think China will help while we take these provocative actions, which they perceive as a threat too. I know we're getting impatient with the North Korea regime not collapsing due to the sanctions, but we need to talk. There's 75 million people on that peninsula, whose lives are at risk, not to mention the rest of the world. We don't need this bluster from Trump!!
7
The new defense system is the very least we can do to protect South Korea & Japan.
3
We achieved stability? Are you kidding me? As North Korea joined the nuclear club and refined their ballistic missile technology? Is that the "stability" you're talking about?
"Adding to the friction, North Korea detained a United States citizen over the weekend, adding to the two Americans already known to be in custody there. The latest man believed to be held, Tony Kim, had been teaching accounting at the Pyongyang University of Science and Technology."
Considering all that we have known about N. Korea for the past four decades, when it comes to Americans traveling there, regardless of whether they have dual citizenship, which Tony Kim holds, why should the US care anymore? They are always taken and used as bargaining chips. And they always will be, as long as they enter N. Korea.
Considering all that we have known about N. Korea for the past four decades, when it comes to Americans traveling there, regardless of whether they have dual citizenship, which Tony Kim holds, why should the US care anymore? They are always taken and used as bargaining chips. And they always will be, as long as they enter N. Korea.
6
Other nations have ineffectively threatened North Korea ever since Nixon ignored its killing of 31 Americans in a shot-down plane in 1971.
North Korea has continued to ignore all threats from the West, and the West has continued to ignore its progress in nuclear arming because of the danger to our allies of responding aggressively.
North Korea is almost capable of creating ICBMs that could carry nuclear weapons to the USA.
Is President Trump going to consider his obligation to protect Americans ahead of the likely damage to Asian allies who are within North Korea's reach?
North Korea has continued to ignore all threats from the West, and the West has continued to ignore its progress in nuclear arming because of the danger to our allies of responding aggressively.
North Korea is almost capable of creating ICBMs that could carry nuclear weapons to the USA.
Is President Trump going to consider his obligation to protect Americans ahead of the likely damage to Asian allies who are within North Korea's reach?
4
You mean China told the megalomaniac to shut his trap? Good luck!
5
The North Koreans are now afraid of a CPA. My god what a sick regime!!
China can control what North Korea does at any moment.
We can control what China does at any moment by buying and supporting local businesses. ( cutting off the flow of profit to them ) If China no longer has the money to support their social compact of a burgeoning middle class in lieu of human rights, then they collapse. They know that. We know that, yet we continue to prop them up.
We can end it. We have the power. Military suicide is not required.
We can control what China does at any moment by buying and supporting local businesses. ( cutting off the flow of profit to them ) If China no longer has the money to support their social compact of a burgeoning middle class in lieu of human rights, then they collapse. They know that. We know that, yet we continue to prop them up.
We can end it. We have the power. Military suicide is not required.
6
The only solution is not do anything.
Trump and restraint are mutually exclusive...
See Twitter for proof...
See Twitter for proof...
9
North Korean leaders have been behaving (beyond) horribly for so long time. It is extremely frustrating, indeed. However, Trump administration needs to be extremely cautious and wise before making any decision and action against North Korea. The most important reason: South Koreans. They need to be the one who should make important decisions related to their lives and their country. Trump administration has focused on its relation with China, which is definitely necessary and helpful. But they need to work with South Koreans more closely with more respect and with better understanding, and need to put the lives of South Koreans as top priority. US has military bases in South Korea, to benefit both South Korean and American interests. But the most important consideration should be the importance of lives in South Korea. I have never heard from people in Korea about how concerned they are about the possibility of war triggered by the Trump administration, and therefore losing their or their loved ones' lives. North Koreans are tricky to deal with and they behave beyond bad. But South Korean lives should come first before making any decision.
8
I do NOT think US will find South Korea lives more important US citizens. If NoKor have capability to hit back US mainland, then South Koreans can sleep at night knowing US will not attack North Korea. US is dictating to NoKorean citizens that they do not have right to defend themselves. How do you reason or argue with people like that??? It is beyond vulgar.
The President of China and President Trump are good friends. That's a good thing.
1
Wow, you can become good friends after meeting once? I suppose one can be optimistic at best but I certainly wouldn't count on a "friendship".
3
You are very naive......US has more nuclear missiles aimed at China than NoKor.
1
That would require Trump to think before he acts. Not a likely scenario given his course of actions so far.
7
Trump has no choice but to play really tough on this one. You have a North Korean leader who is like a child playing with matches. There is only one language he might understand.
4
That of another child...an orange child?
That's not a half bad idea.
That's not a half bad idea.
2
Showing power and toughness can be done diplomatically and very smart way without military solution. Any small military action by Trump against North Korea can put 25 million people in Seoul and another 25 million people in South Korea.
3
I mean 50 million people in South Korea, especially 25 million in Seoul (Yes in one metropolitan area alone has 25 million people) can easily be attacked my North Korea which is really scary.
1
China is driving the train on this. They know that there are two unstable leaders posturing and bloviating...If China truly wanted the North Koreans to cease and desist with nuclear ambitions, North Korea would stop immediately. It is in China's interest to keep a rogue leader at bay with their neighboring rogue leader.
2
China was driving this train.
Wait...no..you don't really think that Trump is now driving the train?
That man wouldn't qualify to ride in a caboose of a train.
That man wouldn't qualify to ride in a caboose of a train.
We are hoping for thoughtfully informed care where mindfulness is in very short supply.
4
Normally the Chinese are a self effacing group when it comes to international leadership. However, because of Trump's erratic international presence, the Chinese are being forced out of character to take up leadership in World affairs. Their restraint vs Trump's bombast. I like their restraint much more than Trump's buffoonery.
6
While Xi Jinping urged Washington and Pyongyang to meet each other halfway, Shinzo Abe demanded that North Korea stop repeating “dangerously provocative actions,” warning that Japan would "respond resolutely.”
For another president the North Korean crisis would be a litmus test for political acumen and diplomatic skills. But Trump could make a mess out of it. No wonder Xi called him thrice to ensure that his counterpart in the Oval Office wouldn't act on impulse, which could lead to an outbreak of a nuclear war. Xi's strategy seems to bleed the Kim regime financially. Unfortunately the others don't have the patience.
For another president the North Korean crisis would be a litmus test for political acumen and diplomatic skills. But Trump could make a mess out of it. No wonder Xi called him thrice to ensure that his counterpart in the Oval Office wouldn't act on impulse, which could lead to an outbreak of a nuclear war. Xi's strategy seems to bleed the Kim regime financially. Unfortunately the others don't have the patience.
3
Didn't Russia supply the know-how to build their rockets? Why are we not putting pressure on Russia to stop developing their technology? How come their is little mention of this?
A dog that's cornered will do anything; Kim sent out that signal by 'suddenly' murdered his step brother in broad daylight. For this reason even China's pressure, such as cutting off oil supply, will not extract any concession from him. Any attack will have to be decisive or the respond won't be pretty. Let's hope the cool heads will result in peaceful negotiation.
4
Let's hope the cool heads develope a plan of action that swiftly neutralizes ALL of north koreas responses. Destroy his artillery forces threatening Seoul, etc...
1
North Korea is a very real problem. My view of the matter is that the real question that needs to be answered is the will of the South Korean people, they have a choice:
* be prepared to confront North Korea now, that might lead to serious casualties
* or admit that they will not, in which case they may as well surrender to Kim Jong Un now and get it over with ... or ...
* South Korea can start its own nuclear program, so that it can protect itself ... to the extent it thinks the North Korean regime can be deterred.
The United States cannot reasonably protect South Korea from a nuclearized North Korea, particularly so if/when North Korea has the capability to attack the US with nuclear weapons.
China must confront the question of what its policy will be ... but i cannot see that a nuclearized North Korea is to its advantage, particularly if the longer-term outcome of that is that South Korea, Japan, and possibly Taiwan all nuclearize.
* be prepared to confront North Korea now, that might lead to serious casualties
* or admit that they will not, in which case they may as well surrender to Kim Jong Un now and get it over with ... or ...
* South Korea can start its own nuclear program, so that it can protect itself ... to the extent it thinks the North Korean regime can be deterred.
The United States cannot reasonably protect South Korea from a nuclearized North Korea, particularly so if/when North Korea has the capability to attack the US with nuclear weapons.
China must confront the question of what its policy will be ... but i cannot see that a nuclearized North Korea is to its advantage, particularly if the longer-term outcome of that is that South Korea, Japan, and possibly Taiwan all nuclearize.
2
"South Korea can start its own nuclear program, so that it can protect itself ... to the extent it thinks the North Korean regime can be deterred. " This has been on South Korean politicians choice for decades. Matter fact, South Korea started nuclear weapons program in the 1960's and back down from US pressure. If China and Russia threatened South Korea, like US threatened NoKor, South Korea would already have nuclear weapons. Now with NoKorea having nukes, that option is very clear, and especially with Trump behavior, South Korea nuclear option is even more clear. Once South Korea goes nuclear, South Korea will ask US bases to leave and if there are any issue between NoKorea and US, South Korea will not be target of retaliation.
President Xi -- “China adamantly opposes any actions in contravention of the United Nations Security Council resolutions"?
How about enforcing the UN sanctions and not leak any technology and money to this rogue regime?
Truth is, the only reason N Korea is a nuclear threat is because of China's willful cultivation for decades.
China has blood on its hands.
How about enforcing the UN sanctions and not leak any technology and money to this rogue regime?
Truth is, the only reason N Korea is a nuclear threat is because of China's willful cultivation for decades.
China has blood on its hands.
8
Trump needs a win "bigly", a few megatons should do the trick.....
Scary, who voted for thus guy?
Scary, who voted for thus guy?
6
Lazy rust belt losers who need their factory based piece working jobs that they lost to robots 20 years ago.
10
This is just great -- two nuclear-armed nations, both headed by the two looniest "leaders" in the world today! What could possibly go wrong?
11
With draft dodger trump' habit of acting on the last thing he heard, please, can we make sure he speaks to an American after he meets with President Xi Jinping.
Preferably an educated American.
Preferably an educated American.
13
Educated? Not likely. Trump loves the uneducated and he isn't fond of folks who know things. He said so during his campaign.
2
One can dream...
Get the USA movie industry, Hollywood, to keep turning out movies like 'Saving Private Ryan', as this North Korean dude defected to South Korea once he viewed smuggled foreign films that debunked the propaganda about the western world. Seems if North Koreas citizens are exposed to western world movies then the brainwashing by their North Korean government can be turned into a revolution type rebellion within their own nation. Maybe smuggle in LOTS of USA movies and just let the brainwashed North Koreans do your work for you. New ways of thinking required to get rid of North Korean leader and his nuclear state.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/poverty/news/article.cfm?c_id=286&objectid...
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/poverty/news/article.cfm?c_id=286&objectid...
2
Ask Dennis "The Worm" Rodman to play mediator. Sound crazy? Who has a better idea?
1
No such word (restraint) in Trumpov's brain.
He cannot concentrate that long.
He cannot concentrate that long.
6
caption for header pic
but, xi, im still a little confused ...
how many times must i tell you, its the south we like and the north we hate
ok ok, i think i got it now ... south, good, north bad -- south, good, north, bad
5
Restraint, because restraint has worked so well in the past with North Korea.
7
Sorry but, it has.
Short of launching a few missiles (half of which crash and burn) what has the sawed off little north Korean twerp done to America or her allies?
Un's acting up now because he knows that draft dodger trump is a fool and coward.
Short of launching a few missiles (half of which crash and burn) what has the sawed off little north Korean twerp done to America or her allies?
Un's acting up now because he knows that draft dodger trump is a fool and coward.
6
There may be a very positive meaning in Xi's message -- they're telling Trump not to worry about that other idiot.
5
North Korea can be deterred by the prospect of an American nuclear response. There seems to be no need for a pre-emptive strike, which could lead to war. Patience was a successful strategy for the Soviet Union. It can also work for the North.
I get the "complicated" situation but the longer we wait the more complicated it will get. It is complicated because we have kicked this can down road time and again. DNK is doing a superb job of putting the world in a corner and it's getting late. We can react to a strike or take the offensive and move this crises to the next notch. Then again - what the heck do I know. Regime change here will be messy and will take two full generations.
4
Non military sanctions are important tools.
Yes food and medicines brokered through China perhaps can be a cushion against out of control hostility and radioactive saber waving. Of course if the Chinese or any other nation are providing those things now then we need to look at pressure on them to stop. The overt and clearly stated nuclear threats were regarding retaliation to military actions.
Yes food and medicines brokered through China perhaps can be a cushion against out of control hostility and radioactive saber waving. Of course if the Chinese or any other nation are providing those things now then we need to look at pressure on them to stop. The overt and clearly stated nuclear threats were regarding retaliation to military actions.
China is now fully in command of the world. Xi sized up Trump and explained the complexities of the Korean Peninsula over chocolate cake in Florida and is now entirely comfortable lecturing him in a very public way.
Trump is in over his head and possibly doesn't realize how close his bluster is to starting a shooting war.
The one positive note in this story is Trump has found his Armada.
Trump is in over his head and possibly doesn't realize how close his bluster is to starting a shooting war.
The one positive note in this story is Trump has found his Armada.
20
Over chocolate cake while being informed that the US had just cropped the MOAB on Syria.
3
China urges restraint, but China is not threatened by North Korea's nuclear weapons, even the fallout from retaliation-in-kind will blow the other way. The US and its allies, including Australia now, are threatened by North Korea's growing nuclear capability. Given the combination of belligerance and lack of accountability of the North Korean leadership (at least Donald Trump has to answer to the American people), their growing nuclear threat should be stopped in its tracks. This is no longer a charade, and the West would be silly to let it develop any further. The DPNK army can govern the nation quite well.
4
"China is not threatened by North Korea's nuclear weapons, even the fallout from retaliation-in-kind will blow the other way"
What a nonsensical farce...
What a nonsensical farce...
3
incorrect about the wind
the usual west to east flow across asia is quite variable
often jet streams traveling at 200 kts flow from the north and spread west across china
1
Okay. Cautious restraint with the North Korean madman after he made many explicit nuclear threats against the US is very complicated. China aided North Korea to get to this place regardless of the facts that Pakistan and Pakistani scientists sold them the science, for personal gain along with Libya. All of the world, European and Asian nations knew of the growing menace. Eyes wide open. Jong-un and Putin are paranoid lunatics and are both afraid of any overt or covert interference with their status. Thus the assassinations of journalists and even relatives at home and abroad. We live now with the POTUS whose lack of depth or analytic thinking and the reality of and blundering swagger via the input of his appointees and family has us in his crazy billionaire world reality show.
7
Putin may be many things, but he is not a fool. Kim Jong-un poses a danger not just to the U.S. and our friends but to Russia as well. As another commenter has pointed out, one of the greatest dangers is the possibility -- in fact, more accurately, the probability -- that if permitted to continue unchecked, the Kim regime will provide easily transportable small-size nukes to terrorist groups who will see the cities of our coastal areas as well as those in Europe including Russia as inviting targets...
Like it or not, the NK problem must be squarely confronted and dealt with now. If not, it will surely grow greater with each passing day. And it really doesn't move us any closer to a solution or otherwise do any good to keep attacking the POTUS...
Like it or not, the NK problem must be squarely confronted and dealt with now. If not, it will surely grow greater with each passing day. And it really doesn't move us any closer to a solution or otherwise do any good to keep attacking the POTUS...
5
The Trump foreign policy in a nutshell: I came. I saw. I went to Mar a Lago to play golf.
2
This situation highlights the danger of the current administration. North Korea periodically spews bellicose hyperbole. Anyone and everyone who knows anything about foreign affairs is aware of this. Much like a toddler with a stinky diaper, Kim does this to get attention and maybe get changed and powdered.
However, our current administration is headed by a man who does the same thing, but is ignorant to his core about anything occurring anywhere in the world. The only things he understands are scripted "reality" television bluster, and how to cheat people out of money.
Two ignorant toddlers with large military capacities need adults to step in and take charge. It is a great and embarrassing reality that the Chinese government is playing that role. Thankfully our toddler may listen since he has so many business dealings with China in providing him and his kids cheap merchandise they can sell at a yuge markup. It may be a violation of the Constitution, US law, and a terrible precedent of having foreign policy decided by the economic ties the White House to foreign nations, but it beats a war.
However, our current administration is headed by a man who does the same thing, but is ignorant to his core about anything occurring anywhere in the world. The only things he understands are scripted "reality" television bluster, and how to cheat people out of money.
Two ignorant toddlers with large military capacities need adults to step in and take charge. It is a great and embarrassing reality that the Chinese government is playing that role. Thankfully our toddler may listen since he has so many business dealings with China in providing him and his kids cheap merchandise they can sell at a yuge markup. It may be a violation of the Constitution, US law, and a terrible precedent of having foreign policy decided by the economic ties the White House to foreign nations, but it beats a war.
11
I fear that this will end badly.
5
america has ended badly
whattlaya gonna do, huh ?
Once again the President of China has to school the President of the United States in the nuances of international relations and the responsibilities of a superpower. GOD help us all.
17
Yes. because the communist leader of a nation that supports a tyrannical despot must be a wise sage.
3
No, because our guy is an ignoramus. Angela Merkel had to tell him TEN TIMES that Germany could not negotiate trade with the US unilaterally because of a little thing called the EU. Trump's ignorance is wide, deep, and dangerous.
6
The understanding of "nuances" didn't help much for the last eight years, did it? Nor for that matter, during the preceding sixteen or so. Kim isn't big on "nuanced" conversations. He's pretty straight forward. He says, in effect, "Give me the time and chance, and I'll do my best to bury you..." He understands one thing: power...
5
Strategic patience became strategic problem denial years ago by all the players in the region.
The Kim regime will fall in the not so distant future and then there will be a monumental humanitarian crisis that the players want no part of.
It is not just the nuclear issue, N.K. has the 4th largest army on the planet, what will become of it?
The entire N.K. economy is dependent on the state, what will become of it?
The UN, China, Russia, Japan, South Korea and the USA are somehow going to have to figure out a way to take control of that country and rebuild it.
That is going to take generations.
The Kim regime will fall in the not so distant future and then there will be a monumental humanitarian crisis that the players want no part of.
It is not just the nuclear issue, N.K. has the 4th largest army on the planet, what will become of it?
The entire N.K. economy is dependent on the state, what will become of it?
The UN, China, Russia, Japan, South Korea and the USA are somehow going to have to figure out a way to take control of that country and rebuild it.
That is going to take generations.
8
Mr Trump. Do the right thing and sit down and talk to Kim-jung un. Having to talk with you would undoubtedly literally bore him to death.
4
Have you seen his "sit down interviews" on television? Or the disasters he has had in his sit down conversations with FRIENDLY leaders? He would precipitate a war in minutes if he actually tries to "sit down and talk" with kim.
Our B-2's are going to take care of the N.Korean nuclear program. Our carrier group(s) will be there to contain any resulting aggressive moves by the N.Korean military.
2
Are you sure they can find North Korea? Is the Armada there yet?
12
And conventional weapons retaliatory strike launched by the North will turn Seoul into a parking lot 20 minutes later at a cost of 20 million S. Korean lives.
Sounds like a stalemate, except if you happen to be one of the 20 million.
Sounds like a stalemate, except if you happen to be one of the 20 million.
4
Uh huh. And China will be OK with that. Sure.
1
im not sure which madman with the wild hair style and the ego is the scariest. at the moment i might even call it a draw. but they both are a problem for the rest of us.
7
The glaringly obvious - and the only - solution to the North Korean crisis is to slap sanctions on China as long as it keeps supplying Pyongyang with military technology. Kim's antics are serving Chinese interests and it is time to concentrate the Chinese minds.
Really? That is the "solution?" And just exactly what do you imagine China would do in such an (illegal) situation? China holds what in diplomatic terms is called "Most Favored Nation" status with the US. It would preclude any type of sanctioning.
3
I see you do not deny the statement that China is supplying Pyongyang with military hardware (and software). Is this a country that should hold the "Most Favored Nation" designation?
The question we need to ask is whether irking China (who has been blatantly using protectionism against US imports) is worth denuclearization of NK. We all know that China - the de facto enabler of Korean nuclear threats - has much more to lose than the West.
The question we need to ask is whether irking China (who has been blatantly using protectionism against US imports) is worth denuclearization of NK. We all know that China - the de facto enabler of Korean nuclear threats - has much more to lose than the West.
1
More unsubstantiated claims...
Then, what about making peace with NK as a "glaringly obvious" solution? is that too hard for the US because of their constant need of a remote bogeyman to agitate?
"North Korea says it could stop nuclear tests in exchange for the U.S. scrapping joint military drills with South Korea, while also calling for a peace treaty with the U.S. in an echo of demands that Washington had rejected in the past." (Associated Press, "North Korea says it could halt nuke tests if US scraps drills", 15 january 2016)
"The isolated state [North Korea] has long sought a peace treaty with the United States and other parties in the 1950-53 Korean War, as well as an end to military exercises by South Korea and the United States, which has about 28,500 troops based in South Korea." (Reuters, "U.S. rejected North Korea peace talks offer before last nuclear test: State Department", Feb 22, 2016)
Then, what about making peace with NK as a "glaringly obvious" solution? is that too hard for the US because of their constant need of a remote bogeyman to agitate?
"North Korea says it could stop nuclear tests in exchange for the U.S. scrapping joint military drills with South Korea, while also calling for a peace treaty with the U.S. in an echo of demands that Washington had rejected in the past." (Associated Press, "North Korea says it could halt nuke tests if US scraps drills", 15 january 2016)
"The isolated state [North Korea] has long sought a peace treaty with the United States and other parties in the 1950-53 Korean War, as well as an end to military exercises by South Korea and the United States, which has about 28,500 troops based in South Korea." (Reuters, "U.S. rejected North Korea peace talks offer before last nuclear test: State Department", Feb 22, 2016)
"“President Trump criticized North Korea’s continued belligerence...” the White House said in its brief account of Mr. Trump’s call with Mr. Xi. "
I don't think an imperialist America which has killed millions of people in unjustified invasions has any right to judge other countries as good, evil, or belligerent.
Unfortunately, North Korea is the land of terrible options when it comes to military action. If there was a 'magic bullet' for the NK situation, then previous administrations would have fired it a long time ago. That they haven't should provide you with some indication as to how tricky this situation is. There is no version of events in which a preemptive strike on NK is a 'one-and-done' deal. There will be retaliation, more than likely nuclear. Millions will die.
Some kind of careful management is probably the least worst option here.
North Korea has demonstrated that having a nuclear weapon gives them an insurance, the ultimate insurance. It's definitely not what we want but it is a rational response to what the US has been doing around the world.
You can't expect NK to be 'rational' when the US and Western policy in terms of Iraq etc. has been so irrational that it actually makes sense to be belligerent. If you look at it from NK perspective, they want to stay in power, the US wants them out of power and have been deposing regimes across the globe with impunity.
I would want nuclear weapons if I were ruling in Pyongyang.
Time for less US belligerence already
I don't think an imperialist America which has killed millions of people in unjustified invasions has any right to judge other countries as good, evil, or belligerent.
Unfortunately, North Korea is the land of terrible options when it comes to military action. If there was a 'magic bullet' for the NK situation, then previous administrations would have fired it a long time ago. That they haven't should provide you with some indication as to how tricky this situation is. There is no version of events in which a preemptive strike on NK is a 'one-and-done' deal. There will be retaliation, more than likely nuclear. Millions will die.
Some kind of careful management is probably the least worst option here.
North Korea has demonstrated that having a nuclear weapon gives them an insurance, the ultimate insurance. It's definitely not what we want but it is a rational response to what the US has been doing around the world.
You can't expect NK to be 'rational' when the US and Western policy in terms of Iraq etc. has been so irrational that it actually makes sense to be belligerent. If you look at it from NK perspective, they want to stay in power, the US wants them out of power and have been deposing regimes across the globe with impunity.
I would want nuclear weapons if I were ruling in Pyongyang.
Time for less US belligerence already
4
"Washington and allied governments believe that North Korea’s weapons development is getting closer to mastering the means to hit the continental United States with a ballistic missile. And they have become increasingly impatient with China to do more to rein in North Korea."
No politicians anticipated this for so many years? Why did not they ask China then? Is it now the only option to look up to China? But neither Carl Vinson nor Kim listen to China, or maybe the delay of the 6th test was a possible sign?
No politicians anticipated this for so many years? Why did not they ask China then? Is it now the only option to look up to China? But neither Carl Vinson nor Kim listen to China, or maybe the delay of the 6th test was a possible sign?
2
First off, why are we allowing Americans to go to North Korea knowing full well that they can be taken as hostages? Secondly, if North Korea attacks any of our ships in international waters that is an act of war and would require a military response. North Korea feels that they have the right to nuclear weapon and maybe they do. The ability to have such weapons should not be contingent upon being an ally to the US, but it also doesn't give North Korea the right to threaten the US either. This is a situation that has to be handled intelligently with deliberation. I hope that there are some clear heads in the Trump administration as this can get out of hand very quickly.
9
I would normally agree that all nations have the right to develop nukes (although we should be working to decrease the number of these weapons) but North Korea seems to be a special case.
just bomb north korea trump
1
Very pathetic for us ; as we are the citizens of the world.we do not expect any kind of catastrophically conclusion without any discussion. The world leaders should come forward to arrange round table meeting between two opposite leaders by any means....as they lead the world. What is work of United Nation ? Is it Useless ? Can't it comeforward to minimize rising tension by arrenging round table meeting between two groups? Is it dummy or puppet by someone? we want a peaceful world. Everything is possible if we look into the matter in positve point of view. we hate war ;love brotherhood.
1
One thing that struck me was Spicer's recriminating response to a question about the the false statements about the "Armada" heading to Korean waters.
"We received the information from the Pentagon, so I suggest to pose this question to them." It harkens back to the policy of an earlier President who first faced conflict with North Korea, "The Buck Stops Here" President Trump, while relishing his authority over all of the vast administrative empire, doesn't seem to accept the responsibility that goes with it.
He has grasped the tail of the tiger of a nuclear N.Korea, which would be a positive step, if it weren't that he doesn't have the grasp of international processes to begin to think about a resolution. It takes diplomacy, which he can only internalize as weakness.
At an historical crossroads in world events that requires wisdom, we have Donald J. Trump.
"We received the information from the Pentagon, so I suggest to pose this question to them." It harkens back to the policy of an earlier President who first faced conflict with North Korea, "The Buck Stops Here" President Trump, while relishing his authority over all of the vast administrative empire, doesn't seem to accept the responsibility that goes with it.
He has grasped the tail of the tiger of a nuclear N.Korea, which would be a positive step, if it weren't that he doesn't have the grasp of international processes to begin to think about a resolution. It takes diplomacy, which he can only internalize as weakness.
At an historical crossroads in world events that requires wisdom, we have Donald J. Trump.
3
Rather the taunting Mr. Kim, we should be giving N. Korea food and medical aid. Their belligerence was at its worse during the famine in which 10% of their people died.
2
I'm sure they'd appreciate it - that way, they could spend even more on the militarization and nuclear programs without having to fret too much about those annoying masses.
Do you honestly think a man like Kim would suddenly - or ever - take any aid and then change his behavior?
Do you honestly think a man like Kim would suddenly - or ever - take any aid and then change his behavior?
6
Millions of Trump working class voters cast their ballots based on his promises to "drain the swamp" and create millions and millions of "incredible" jobs... So far, he has done nothing to achieve either..
But, in less than one hundred days, he has force-fed another corporate fascist to our highest court, gutted environmental protections, revoked Obama's fair pay and safe workplaces orders, appointed an oil baron to lead the State dept, a racist to head Justice, and an anti-education billionaire to head up Education, fired hundreds of millions of dollars worth of tomahawk missiles into the Syrian sand, became the first to drop a MOAB, lost track of an "armada" (the USS Vinson supercarrier strike group), and now has millions of Asians facing the prospect of nuclear disaster...
Did I mention our so-called president has spent more than half of his weekends enjoying taxpayer funded golf excursions in Mar-a-lago?
If you bought into Trump's "alternate fact" claims that the last administration was a "total disaster", you ain't seen nothin' yet.
But, in less than one hundred days, he has force-fed another corporate fascist to our highest court, gutted environmental protections, revoked Obama's fair pay and safe workplaces orders, appointed an oil baron to lead the State dept, a racist to head Justice, and an anti-education billionaire to head up Education, fired hundreds of millions of dollars worth of tomahawk missiles into the Syrian sand, became the first to drop a MOAB, lost track of an "armada" (the USS Vinson supercarrier strike group), and now has millions of Asians facing the prospect of nuclear disaster...
Did I mention our so-called president has spent more than half of his weekends enjoying taxpayer funded golf excursions in Mar-a-lago?
If you bought into Trump's "alternate fact" claims that the last administration was a "total disaster", you ain't seen nothin' yet.
25
This entire episode (of season 1) is a work any hack Hollywood screenwriter could have scribed. Aside from keeping up political appearances, China would NEVER work with the US to remove DPRK leadership, because it would only add yet another potential dangerous western ally at extremely close range. The rest is posturing because the US will NEVER go up against China over DPRK. It's a distraction, and really just an issue of small hands on the wrong person at the wrong time in history.
Think of it in the reverse: would the US enter into resolving a situation that could conceivably result with Canada or Mexico becoming communist ally of China?
Think of it in the reverse: would the US enter into resolving a situation that could conceivably result with Canada or Mexico becoming communist ally of China?
3
In fact, the Resident is once again doing the EXACT wrong thing here. As Obama and other experts have pointed out, this is a situation that requires delicacy and diplomacy because the only way out of this is to allow all parties to save face.
And that, is exactly what the Resident is destroying right now so that he can justify more budget for the military (thanks again GOP), and to keep the cover of political infighting here at home.
And that, is exactly what the Resident is destroying right now so that he can justify more budget for the military (thanks again GOP), and to keep the cover of political infighting here at home.
1
So I suspect that in regard to the ongoing dialogue about North Korea there would be broad consensus (at least by NYT readers) of the statement "Donald Trump is a madman!".
The question becomes whether this is due to personality flaws, repugnat attitudes and incompetence or is it "strategy". Remember Richard Nixon's policy with Communist leaders in the 1970's dubbed as "madman diplomacy" with folks in DoD and State suggesting to them that RMN was crazy enough to bring on the apocalypse and so keep the enemy guessing as to what the next move might be.
Now I have heard no one comparing Donald Trump to Richard Nixon but this present mounting situation on the Korean peninsula does seem Nixon-esque...
The question becomes whether this is due to personality flaws, repugnat attitudes and incompetence or is it "strategy". Remember Richard Nixon's policy with Communist leaders in the 1970's dubbed as "madman diplomacy" with folks in DoD and State suggesting to them that RMN was crazy enough to bring on the apocalypse and so keep the enemy guessing as to what the next move might be.
Now I have heard no one comparing Donald Trump to Richard Nixon but this present mounting situation on the Korean peninsula does seem Nixon-esque...
1
Did he mention the chocolate cake? I heard it was amazing
9
Why not invite NK to peace talks between all nuclear nations, no conditions. See if they come or not. Step one.
3
Americans fondly believe that for every problem, there is a solution. This is not true in history. There is NO solution to the problem of the nuclear weapons' development of the DPRK. None. Not Chinese pressure, not American bloviating, not negotiating, not Special Forces ops, not massive bombing--nothing. Don't believe me? Read Max Fisher in the NYT:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/17/world/asia/north-korea-nuclear-weapon...
We need to grow up, and recognize that history matters, that we are not the center of the universe, and that the best way forward is the kind of messy, risky, deterrent posture that (scarily, and with high risk) maintained the peace during the Cold War. This is not a "solution," but it might be a feasible "management strategy." Given our political culture--and that of the DPRK--it is hard to be optimistic.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/17/world/asia/north-korea-nuclear-weapon...
We need to grow up, and recognize that history matters, that we are not the center of the universe, and that the best way forward is the kind of messy, risky, deterrent posture that (scarily, and with high risk) maintained the peace during the Cold War. This is not a "solution," but it might be a feasible "management strategy." Given our political culture--and that of the DPRK--it is hard to be optimistic.
61
All well and good, I suppose, but how does this "management strategy" actually stop North Korea from threatening or, worse, actually acting the US, its military or its allies? No solution? Well certainly, perhaps, no easy or desirable solution, but if one takes the removal or neutering of the North Korean state as a solution then your assertion is untrue.
4
What about a peace treaty that the US have rejected for decades?
"North Korea says it could stop nuclear tests in exchange for the U.S. scrapping joint military drills with South Korea, while also calling for a peace treaty with the U.S. in an echo of demands that Washington had rejected in the past." (Associated Press, "North Korea says it could halt nuke tests if US scraps drills", 15 january 2016)
"The isolated state [North Korea] has long sought a peace treaty with the United States and other parties in the 1950-53 Korean War, as well as an end to military exercises by South Korea and the United States, which has about 28,500 troops based in South Korea." (Reuters, "U.S. rejected North Korea peace talks offer before last nuclear test: State Department", Feb 22, 2016)
"North Korea says it could stop nuclear tests in exchange for the U.S. scrapping joint military drills with South Korea, while also calling for a peace treaty with the U.S. in an echo of demands that Washington had rejected in the past." (Associated Press, "North Korea says it could halt nuke tests if US scraps drills", 15 january 2016)
"The isolated state [North Korea] has long sought a peace treaty with the United States and other parties in the 1950-53 Korean War, as well as an end to military exercises by South Korea and the United States, which has about 28,500 troops based in South Korea." (Reuters, "U.S. rejected North Korea peace talks offer before last nuclear test: State Department", Feb 22, 2016)
This was the first comment I read - so true.
I really love your realism that not everything HAS to be - or IS solvable.
My personal solution to the matter isn't to press North Korea, but to offer them gifts- help the people- send ALL surplus food to North Korea and even then some - I think Kim is westernized enough to be willing to disinherit what he likely never wanted to inherit to begin with, that facade.
My other solution is to just turn on a light switch and open the doors in North Korea - deem the entire region as a Theme Park - everyone still does what they do - except they all get paid $35,000 a year for playing their role, like Williamsburg in the United States. I really think it could work.
I really love your realism that not everything HAS to be - or IS solvable.
My personal solution to the matter isn't to press North Korea, but to offer them gifts- help the people- send ALL surplus food to North Korea and even then some - I think Kim is westernized enough to be willing to disinherit what he likely never wanted to inherit to begin with, that facade.
My other solution is to just turn on a light switch and open the doors in North Korea - deem the entire region as a Theme Park - everyone still does what they do - except they all get paid $35,000 a year for playing their role, like Williamsburg in the United States. I really think it could work.
..., well, also here, China "trumps" the USA in terms of displaying statesmanship, and with that strategic restraint.
Skirmishes in between a declining superpower and an emerging one are quite the spectacle to observe.
And the outcome - well, as noted, quite the spectacle ...
Skirmishes in between a declining superpower and an emerging one are quite the spectacle to observe.
And the outcome - well, as noted, quite the spectacle ...
3
The world is a large arena with tier upon tier for spectators. It's always reassuring to find that those seated farthest from the action have something to say...
1
Trump has no value for human life and he does not process information he only reacts. The US is in grave danger and any day a huge catastrophe can take place. I am just sad and depressed that people in positions of power are not stopping him and that more of the American population does not realize this.
I hope I am wrong but I have never ever been more scared as with Trump as POTUS. His need to be the biggest and the greatest and this will lead to the biggest world war ever!!!! Why don't people realize this? The media cannot normalize or make fun of him. This is not a funny situation. I just pray and pray and pray that people wake up to the realization that Trump will destroy the world any day now!!!!!!!!!!!! I truly wish I am wrong about this.
I hope I am wrong but I have never ever been more scared as with Trump as POTUS. His need to be the biggest and the greatest and this will lead to the biggest world war ever!!!! Why don't people realize this? The media cannot normalize or make fun of him. This is not a funny situation. I just pray and pray and pray that people wake up to the realization that Trump will destroy the world any day now!!!!!!!!!!!! I truly wish I am wrong about this.
5
"Trump has no value for human life and he does not process information he only reacts." Based on what do you determine that President Trump doesn't value human life? I suppose when actions approved by Obama resulted in deaths it didn't change your opinion.
And isn't the person who REALLY fits the above line Kim in North Korea? Put aside partisan hatred for a moment and accept the danger Kim poses to the region, world and the US.
And isn't the person who REALLY fits the above line Kim in North Korea? Put aside partisan hatred for a moment and accept the danger Kim poses to the region, world and the US.
3
What good does hysteria do?
2
Unfortunately many readers seem to be under the impression that China is the adult in the room. China can defend Kim (NK) but at what cost? Does China actually think those "American" factories in China will stay open if China starts shooting at US planes or ships?
Those cargo ships carrying Chinese made goods will be sent back to China and manufacturing in China will thankfully move elsewhere. Perhaps to a nation that values human rights and freedoms? Sending ships of coal back to NK is for the public consumption as that coal will eventually make its way through the black market to those Chinese factories who depend on that coal.
China, the "adult" in the room, has supported a ruthless and brutal family dynasty for generations and now somehow they are supposed to help in maintaining peace on the Korean peninsula? Review history and look at the results achieved from Chinese influence over the Kim family through the decades. Kim is now closer to attacking their neighbors and the US with nuclear missiles thanks to the assistance and support NK has received from China. China has benefited greatly from maintaining the Kim family while SK, Japan, Taiwan and the US have not. People need to come to the reality of what China is actually doing which is biding for time as they continue to gain economic and military strength.
If Xi and a communist China want to keep those factories open then they need to be quiet and stand aside because this is a war they will not win.
Those cargo ships carrying Chinese made goods will be sent back to China and manufacturing in China will thankfully move elsewhere. Perhaps to a nation that values human rights and freedoms? Sending ships of coal back to NK is for the public consumption as that coal will eventually make its way through the black market to those Chinese factories who depend on that coal.
China, the "adult" in the room, has supported a ruthless and brutal family dynasty for generations and now somehow they are supposed to help in maintaining peace on the Korean peninsula? Review history and look at the results achieved from Chinese influence over the Kim family through the decades. Kim is now closer to attacking their neighbors and the US with nuclear missiles thanks to the assistance and support NK has received from China. China has benefited greatly from maintaining the Kim family while SK, Japan, Taiwan and the US have not. People need to come to the reality of what China is actually doing which is biding for time as they continue to gain economic and military strength.
If Xi and a communist China want to keep those factories open then they need to be quiet and stand aside because this is a war they will not win.
4
The Chinese factories will be humming along superbly producing Ms Trump's shoes, bags and Mr. trump's Ties, till end of presidency, hopefully and not beyond 2020.
1
You actually think he can last until 2020? Figure he is lucky if he makes it to 2018. Being president is really hard work, something he does not do. And then there is trumprussia which continues to fester just below the surface, with investigations continuing and the rats abandoning ship
3
John, I am being sarcastic and wish and pray your assessment holds true. I am losing hope as each day passes by and cringe at destruction this character causes on a daily basis.
1
How about a chess match or a go game between Kim and Emperor Donnie? You know, using a real board and pieces. Best 11 out of 21 games. Winner gets bragging rights. (That should keep them both busy and out of trouble for a while.)
They could even play using the internet.
These two ignoramuses need to remember that there are no winners in a shooting war, just losers and bigger losers.
Maybe the Chinese can explain to Kim that if he uses even one nuke, ever, anywhere, or even through a surrogate, he and his whole country will be fried. For real. Not a threat, a promise.
They could even play using the internet.
These two ignoramuses need to remember that there are no winners in a shooting war, just losers and bigger losers.
Maybe the Chinese can explain to Kim that if he uses even one nuke, ever, anywhere, or even through a surrogate, he and his whole country will be fried. For real. Not a threat, a promise.
2
Trump threatens to shut down government if democrats won't give him money for a wall. If that's any indication of how he's dealing with Korea then President Xi is wasting his time.
6
The US Answer must be "We will show restraint if China shows resolve. We ask China to take the lead in helping their ally transition to a more rational government and a peace time economy. We stand ready to assist our Chinese friends in this difficult endeavor just as we remain committed to protecting and assisting our friends in S. Korea during this difficult transition."
23
If we make regime change our condition for restraint, then we are choosing war.
3
The US have been refusing a peace treaty with North Korea for decades: how does your "peace time economy" works exactly when the US still refuse to make peace while holding, every year, up to 300.000+ troops strong military drills off NK coasts?
"North Korea says it could stop nuclear tests in exchange for the U.S. scrapping joint military drills with South Korea, while also calling for a peace treaty with the U.S. in an echo of demands that Washington had rejected in the past." (Associated Press, "North Korea says it could halt nuke tests if US scraps drills", 15 january 2016)
"The isolated state [North Korea] has long sought a peace treaty with the United States and other parties in the 1950-53 Korean War, as well as an end to military exercises by South Korea and the United States, which has about 28,500 troops based in South Korea." (Reuters, "U.S. rejected North Korea peace talks offer before last nuclear test: State Department", Feb 22, 2016)
"North Korea says it could stop nuclear tests in exchange for the U.S. scrapping joint military drills with South Korea, while also calling for a peace treaty with the U.S. in an echo of demands that Washington had rejected in the past." (Associated Press, "North Korea says it could halt nuke tests if US scraps drills", 15 january 2016)
"The isolated state [North Korea] has long sought a peace treaty with the United States and other parties in the 1950-53 Korean War, as well as an end to military exercises by South Korea and the United States, which has about 28,500 troops based in South Korea." (Reuters, "U.S. rejected North Korea peace talks offer before last nuclear test: State Department", Feb 22, 2016)
2
Kim Jung Eun seeks to blackmail the world into providing his people, and his kleptocracy, what the DPRK has never had: development and a decent, modern standard of living. I think the US should keep it very simple -- ANY nuclear test, now or in the future (and I mean 100 years from now) will immediately result in the US installing nuclear weapons and medium-range missiles in South Korea, ostensibly aimed at North Korea, well as nuclear armed subs in permanent patrol around the DPRK (with frequent missile testing just offshore). And we must make it clear we will use them, and use them thoroughly, if there is an attack or the threat of an imminent attack, or any attempt at nuclear proliferation beyond North Korean borders..
North Korea is, rather artfully, using a ratchet set against the world community. China is the only country that can pacify the situation and they are also the country that will suffer the gravest consequences if it gets out of control. Clearly the ONLY way to get them to remove this fool from power and demilitarize the North is to show North Korea that they might have a nice ratchet set, but we have a hydraulic hammer.
Could it spiral out of control? Yes. Will it be much worse five to 10 years from now? Clearly. We need to act now and show China they have no choice but to deal with Kim Jung Eun precipitously and immediately.
North Korea is, rather artfully, using a ratchet set against the world community. China is the only country that can pacify the situation and they are also the country that will suffer the gravest consequences if it gets out of control. Clearly the ONLY way to get them to remove this fool from power and demilitarize the North is to show North Korea that they might have a nice ratchet set, but we have a hydraulic hammer.
Could it spiral out of control? Yes. Will it be much worse five to 10 years from now? Clearly. We need to act now and show China they have no choice but to deal with Kim Jung Eun precipitously and immediately.
2
China's allies include North Korea and Pakistan. These three countries seem to have exchanged nuclear and missile technologies. They are now helping each other to make proxy threats and challenges to their rivals, like Japan, US, India, and South Korea. Both North Korea and Pakistan have continuously and incrementally enhanced their missile and nuclear capabilities for decades while China has continued its friendship with them. So, US and its allies will have to come up with some response, like asking China to stop assisting NK and Pakistan.
JFYI Pakistan is an US ally...
Very volatile times we live in. If Trump doesn’t get what he wants in the upcoming Federal budget negotiations and gets a really bad report card for his first 100 days, what happens? One can only imagine the catastrophe that he may unleash on the world. And North Korea with the other maniac in charge it’s the perfect place and setting to start a diversion (War). It diverts his poor performance, and good ole “Patriotism” and flag waving kicks in. The propaganda machine will be in full play, rallies, lots of fireworks, etc.
Now will he get what he wants in the budget, like the "Wall" and tons more money for the military? Not likely. Will he get a good report card for his first 100 days? Absolutely not.
So where does that leave us? Yep, Armageddon right around the corner.
Now will he get what he wants in the budget, like the "Wall" and tons more money for the military? Not likely. Will he get a good report card for his first 100 days? Absolutely not.
So where does that leave us? Yep, Armageddon right around the corner.
3
The sanctions through the U.N clearly are not working. Other actions are called for. If necessary, warn the South Koreans to prepare for war, and re-institute the draft in the U.S; the last time this happened, we ended up fighting the Chinese.
Who could have imagined we'd count on China to keep a Lunatic in line?
8
Which one?
4
The bloviator in chief will soon have us in at least one war, maybe more. His mouth alienates all of our friends. The war machine will march on, making money for the 1% on the backs of the poor. Thank heavens the Chinese have a grip on this.
5
This is the ultimate test for the Trump administration. After years of declining American credibility and even displays of outright timidity, we have a dangerous dictator armed with nuclear weapons challenging the U.S. like a roaring mouse. If we back down now then we are nothing but a scare elephant. I hope Obama is enjoying his vacations and I hope he ends up teaching law at Harvard, but I glad that Trump is president for this crisis.
2
What would be ideal would be a secret agreement between Xi and Trump wherein we get to knock that nutcase of a kid in NK off and reunite Korea in exchange for removing every American soldier from the Korean peninsula and bringing them home (and not stationing them in Japan).
China has so much more to gain from a united, prosperous Korea than by propping up a scourge to all of East Asia, and soon enough to the continental United States.
C'mon, Donnie. Use those "negotiatiing" chops.
China has so much more to gain from a united, prosperous Korea than by propping up a scourge to all of East Asia, and soon enough to the continental United States.
C'mon, Donnie. Use those "negotiatiing" chops.
6
Nikki Haley just issued what could be interpreted as an ultimatum to N. Korea. She stated “But right now, we're saying don't test, don’t use nuclear missiles, don’t try and do any more actions and I think he's understanding that and China’s helping us really put that pressure on him.” She said that the U.S. is prepared for the use of military force in that event. Haley has an accounting degree form Clemson. One wonders if she has ever read about the consequences of the issuing of an ultimatum. Perhaps she feels embolden by the positive press that she has received about her comments on Russia. In any event she is a dangerously, incompetent person. She mirrors the other incompetents including Tillerson Pence and the military cabal ( "Mad God", McMasters, and Kelly).
Seems like Trump's schedule for the week included new healthcare law, tax reform, keeping the government open, and a possible conflict with N. Korea. A busy schedule to be sure.
Seems like Trump's schedule for the week included new healthcare law, tax reform, keeping the government open, and a possible conflict with N. Korea. A busy schedule to be sure.
13
Cec
But that schedule omits the two most important activities of Emperor Donnie: tweeting and golfing. Please revisit his schedule, and make sure there is ample time for his two favorite activities.
But that schedule omits the two most important activities of Emperor Donnie: tweeting and golfing. Please revisit his schedule, and make sure there is ample time for his two favorite activities.
3
Mattis & McMaster aren't incompetent and I am no fan of this administration. IMO those two are proly the most qualified in the whole WH to be there.
I won't argue Kim situation needs to be resolved some how. But nor should they rush into a situation stupidly. Which has been the MO of this administration from day one.
I won't argue Kim situation needs to be resolved some how. But nor should they rush into a situation stupidly. Which has been the MO of this administration from day one.
1
"One wonders if she has ever read about the consequences of the issuing of an ultimatum."
I'm sure she has seen what Obama's failure to enforce the imaginary "red line" led to...
I'm sure she has seen what Obama's failure to enforce the imaginary "red line" led to...
1
Kim Jong-un vs. Donald J(ong-un) Trump for the world heavyweight championship of Malignant Narcissistic Personality Disorder.
What a thrill.
What a thrill.
79
It would actually be Kim Donald.
2
I know that, Zilla, but then the J in Donald's name doesn't work for the joke.
Work with me.
Work with me.
3
While we must not be rash and must act prudently yet forcefully (the latter being something Obama had little stomach for), if we contemplate some actions to protect ourselves and our allies like Japan we would be the bad guys and "in contravention of the United Nations Security Council resolutions". Gasp, oh dear, please say it's not so. Yet North Korea has violated every single one of the useless UN resolutions to which the response from nations like China and it's proxies in the West is a collective, "meh". It is precisely that double standard attitude that has allowed North Korea to become the very dangerous threat they now are.
5
You are absolutely right about double standard. Israel has violated every UN resolution with US support. The US has effectively used a captured, enslaved population for gun practice. With US support, Israel has used napalm and barrel bombs. Yes, there is a double standard in the US.
5
Sounds like the "Domino Theory" all over again. All we need is a Gulf of Tonkin resolution. Perhaps the non-investigated Syrian gas attack will serve that purpose.
4
What terrifies me is knowing that the Bannon wing of the White House no doubt sees a conflagration on the Korean peninsula as a prelude to the existential face-off with China it darkly sees as critical to our "manifest destiny".
27
With these two 'leaders' being so much alike an intellectual decision is not possible. Two four year olds who don't really like each other, playing with guns. Oh, if only it was that simple.
28
It's China Stupid!
2
Time to break out those Apprentice negotiation skills, eh?
2
It's interesting to see how many NYT readers want diplomacy, and appeasement.
Some bring up Gaddafi as an example. He was more reasonable and less isolated than Kim. But you can also counter that diplomacy doesn't always work. And Gaddafi turned around after US invaded Iraq, so military force actually worked!
Want an example NYT and fellow readers? Do you think Neville Chamberlain has any regrets on how he handled Hitler? How do you think the Jews would've prefer things? Appeasement or nip Hitler in the bud before he had the chance to massacre millions and bring about huge loss of life and suffering?
So many NYT readers assume Kim is rational. But there isn't much indication to say he is. Some people don't respond to reason, only to force.
It is incredibly distressing to hear "intelligent" liberal elites advocating restraint. Nuclear proliferation is a serious issue. We need to decrease nukes being built, not more. If DPRK has nukes, South Korea and Japan will build or US will station nuclear weapons there. Rationalizing North Korea building nukes is similar to rationalizing Taiwan should build nukes. Nuclear weapons will proliferate and we shouldn't rationalize nuclear weapons as legit self-defense. North Korea tried to help Syria with nuclear weapons, search "Operation Orchard". Does NYT support Israel under a mushroom cloud? Cause that's a real possibility if DPRK continues with nuclear development. Be ready for that NYT readers.
Some bring up Gaddafi as an example. He was more reasonable and less isolated than Kim. But you can also counter that diplomacy doesn't always work. And Gaddafi turned around after US invaded Iraq, so military force actually worked!
Want an example NYT and fellow readers? Do you think Neville Chamberlain has any regrets on how he handled Hitler? How do you think the Jews would've prefer things? Appeasement or nip Hitler in the bud before he had the chance to massacre millions and bring about huge loss of life and suffering?
So many NYT readers assume Kim is rational. But there isn't much indication to say he is. Some people don't respond to reason, only to force.
It is incredibly distressing to hear "intelligent" liberal elites advocating restraint. Nuclear proliferation is a serious issue. We need to decrease nukes being built, not more. If DPRK has nukes, South Korea and Japan will build or US will station nuclear weapons there. Rationalizing North Korea building nukes is similar to rationalizing Taiwan should build nukes. Nuclear weapons will proliferate and we shouldn't rationalize nuclear weapons as legit self-defense. North Korea tried to help Syria with nuclear weapons, search "Operation Orchard". Does NYT support Israel under a mushroom cloud? Cause that's a real possibility if DPRK continues with nuclear development. Be ready for that NYT readers.
14
The only nuclear weapons use against civilians was dropped by the US. In the last 70 years the US has been at war with any nation that will not be dominated by it. This is way nations need a nuclear deterrent- not against NK but against US aggression.
1
Neither of your examples is useful for understanding this situation. Gaddafi did not have the ability to project power beyond his borders, did not have the ability to immediately destroy both US bases and tens of thousands of civilians in nations allied with us and to whom we have promised protection. Kim has that, through his conventional forces, and now he has nukes too. The Libya example is simply not informative.
And if you think Chamberlain is a relevant example for the Korean situation, then what you are saying is that the DPRK is going to escalate the conflict no matter what we or other powers do, so negotiation is pointless. I just don't see that at all, Kim and the rest of the DPRK leadership know that the beginning of another war on the Korean peninsula means the end of the DPRK no matter what. They cannot win. It's only a question of how many casualties they can inflict. He is building nukes and missiles to improve his negotiating position and to guarantee that other powers actually help his regime survive. This is a far different situation than what Chamberlain faced in 1938.
And if you think Chamberlain is a relevant example for the Korean situation, then what you are saying is that the DPRK is going to escalate the conflict no matter what we or other powers do, so negotiation is pointless. I just don't see that at all, Kim and the rest of the DPRK leadership know that the beginning of another war on the Korean peninsula means the end of the DPRK no matter what. They cannot win. It's only a question of how many casualties they can inflict. He is building nukes and missiles to improve his negotiating position and to guarantee that other powers actually help his regime survive. This is a far different situation than what Chamberlain faced in 1938.
17
“Appeasement or nip Hitler in the bud before he had the chance to massacre millions and bring about huge loss of life and suffering?”
Chamberlain, Britain and the Commonwealth did not have the resources to “nip Hitler in the bud.” Chamberlain needed to time to ramp up his military. This was proven out as the war progressed. Britain won with the help of the Americans and the Soviets.
Also in the mid-1930s, following budget cuts by Republican President, Herbert Hoover, it has been documented that the US army was smaller than that of Romania. Democrat Franklin Roosevelt began to correct that.
Today the US spends more on defense than the next 10 nations combined. The Chamberlain analogy is out of place here.
Chamberlain, Britain and the Commonwealth did not have the resources to “nip Hitler in the bud.” Chamberlain needed to time to ramp up his military. This was proven out as the war progressed. Britain won with the help of the Americans and the Soviets.
Also in the mid-1930s, following budget cuts by Republican President, Herbert Hoover, it has been documented that the US army was smaller than that of Romania. Democrat Franklin Roosevelt began to correct that.
Today the US spends more on defense than the next 10 nations combined. The Chamberlain analogy is out of place here.
8
Typical do little, promise more of China, not a friend, a competitor, who sees N.Korea's threat to the US as a distraction for us, as they vie for supremacy in the World. We should never trust them, but present them and Russia with a fait accompli, in both N.Korea and Iran.
3
"but present them and Russia with a fait accompli, in both N.Korea and Iran."
Last week, Trump's State Department informed Congress that Iran is in compliance with the nuclear deal and that the United States will continue its ease of sanctions under the agreement.
Doesn't sound much like a fait accompli.
Last week, Trump's State Department informed Congress that Iran is in compliance with the nuclear deal and that the United States will continue its ease of sanctions under the agreement.
Doesn't sound much like a fait accompli.
"they vie for supremacy in the World"
Thanks to remind us why the US are globally considered the biggest threat to peace in the world (WIN/Gallup international)...
Thanks to remind us why the US are globally considered the biggest threat to peace in the world (WIN/Gallup international)...
Not what has been done, what should be done!
Donald Trump should be reminded ad nauseum that this is not a reality show. He's an idiot.
40
Good idea, Susan. That'll really show North Korea...
trump needs war to get total control of your govt
there will be war by summer
mark my words
3
Yup, a crazy warmonger in Nork w nukes and this is Donald's fault
4
Might not be his fault but he's the president so he and his rust belt base should stop whining like little girls and deal with him.
It turned out the Carl Vinson was headed nowhere near the Korean Peninsula, but the carrier and accompanying ships have since moved into the region, prompting warnings of a retaliatory strike from North Korea.
Considering how long it probably takes to turn a big ship like that around, perhaps Trump is due an apology for all the carrying on the media made of the fact that the aircraft carrier couldn't turn on a dime last week.
Considering how long it probably takes to turn a big ship like that around, perhaps Trump is due an apology for all the carrying on the media made of the fact that the aircraft carrier couldn't turn on a dime last week.
We are witnessing a watershed moment in which the US is receding as the world leader and China is rapidly emerging as the most prominent world leader and it is also interesting to note that China, a one-party state, is the defender of the current global trading regime and system, of the largely status quo international order that the US has built for the last 70 years, and above all, a defender of world peace and stability.
8
We're witnessing the battle of two infantile narcissists each of whom feel threatened that the other will get more attention..
52
I guess when we asked Xi to stop this delusional fool with his nuclear weapons, we should've been clearer about WHICH delusional fool we meant.
61
Good luck President Xi Jinping because while our last President was an educated, lucid man this one is a child.
89
Yes, well, that "educated, lucid man" did nothing to stop men like Kim or Assad and we see the mess left for today.
2
The last president was too timid to do anything and everyone knew it. This president is will take action and everyone, including North Korea, China and Russia, knows it.
3
George S
We have tried being the world's policeman.
It does not work very well, often because we fail to understand what the protagonists are doing and why they are doing what they do.
Generally, we just end up being the "Ugly Americans", and often we make things worse where we interfere. It costs us in blood and treasure, and often gets us nothing good in return.
We have tried being the world's policeman.
It does not work very well, often because we fail to understand what the protagonists are doing and why they are doing what they do.
Generally, we just end up being the "Ugly Americans", and often we make things worse where we interfere. It costs us in blood and treasure, and often gets us nothing good in return.
2
North Korea issue has to be handled at some point.
We all know China is playing a game and has no intent of ever toppling Kim Jong-Un. And presidents endlessly passing the baton, delaying the inevitable, has led us to here. China is also afraid of North Korea, as Kim might launch a strike on Beijing.
I support Trump on this because delaying it only will make things much worse. USA doesn't need to use nuclear weapons, only North Korea will fire the first nuclear weapon. If China and Russia get involved, it gets much worse.
The biggest danger as I've said repeatedly, isn't North Korea launching a nuclear warhead. It's North Korea selling a miniature nuclear warhead to a stateless organization used to attack the US, NYC, the West, China or any country. That's the biggest danger to the world, one Kim isn't afraid to do.
This madman needs to be stopped and maybe it takes a madman to stop another madman. Because I'm frankly sick and tired of North Korea, giving them aid, just for them to threaten all of humanity.
We all know China is playing a game and has no intent of ever toppling Kim Jong-Un. And presidents endlessly passing the baton, delaying the inevitable, has led us to here. China is also afraid of North Korea, as Kim might launch a strike on Beijing.
I support Trump on this because delaying it only will make things much worse. USA doesn't need to use nuclear weapons, only North Korea will fire the first nuclear weapon. If China and Russia get involved, it gets much worse.
The biggest danger as I've said repeatedly, isn't North Korea launching a nuclear warhead. It's North Korea selling a miniature nuclear warhead to a stateless organization used to attack the US, NYC, the West, China or any country. That's the biggest danger to the world, one Kim isn't afraid to do.
This madman needs to be stopped and maybe it takes a madman to stop another madman. Because I'm frankly sick and tired of North Korea, giving them aid, just for them to threaten all of humanity.
26
So let me get this straight. You acknowledge the possibility of a confrontation touching off a global nuclear war, but it is worth the risk to eliminate the danger of N. Korea selling a small weapon to what I assume would be a terrorist group. Again, POTENTIALLY saving tens or hundreds of thousands is worth POTENTIALLY killing all of humanity? Not real sure how your logic works d.
4
Suit up and enlist. Or have your kids enlist. Mine will never fight for a fools errand or because of the failures of a madman who cheated, lied, lost the vote, and stole the office with Russian help.
3
Yeah, just look at how it turned out between Hitler and Stalin.
2
Two men playing chicken, both dumb as rocks. That's what it looks like to me. The consequences will be disastrous unless one of them flinches. Dumb people don't know when to say "uncle".
58
"Dumb people don't know when to say 'uncle'."
Good point. Smart people -- Neville Chamberlain, for example -- often yell "I give!" before the last echo of the threatening words is no longer audible. That's apparently the partisan left's idea of strong "nuanced" leadership...
Good point. Smart people -- Neville Chamberlain, for example -- often yell "I give!" before the last echo of the threatening words is no longer audible. That's apparently the partisan left's idea of strong "nuanced" leadership...
You must learn to see every action taken by North Korea as a chess move by the Chinese. North Korea is a Chinese pawn which they have always used to bargain for things they want with the west while pretending they have no hand in it. It is well beyond the time we force them to acknowledge this and bring them not the North Koreans whom are only doing their bidding, under control.
In this case they are using the pawn to gain concessions for the illegal basses they have built off the coast of the Phillipines and elsewhere. They want unchecked control of the Western Pacific Ocean.
We need to be ready to go to war with them as they don't care how many people suffer or die, if they get something at the end. Think Assad and realize they have presided over the torture and starvation of millions in North Korea without blinking an eye at their hand in it.
In this case they are using the pawn to gain concessions for the illegal basses they have built off the coast of the Phillipines and elsewhere. They want unchecked control of the Western Pacific Ocean.
We need to be ready to go to war with them as they don't care how many people suffer or die, if they get something at the end. Think Assad and realize they have presided over the torture and starvation of millions in North Korea without blinking an eye at their hand in it.
8
I'm watching our UN Ambassador say things that make no sense. "The Chinese are doing their best?!" When did we star believing the Chinese were honest or honorable? How can so many rabid nationalists be so stupid about a nation that has been our enemy since it came into existence?
I remind you of an apocryphal tale told of Kruschev. It is said that he claimed that "the west would sell us the rope we use to hang it". Maybe I'm the only one who heard that tale but clearly the Chinese Communists have not been won over to be more open and kind by Capitalism.
I'm fairly sure they think they have bought enough rope and are now testing its tensile strength.
I remind you of an apocryphal tale told of Kruschev. It is said that he claimed that "the west would sell us the rope we use to hang it". Maybe I'm the only one who heard that tale but clearly the Chinese Communists have not been won over to be more open and kind by Capitalism.
I'm fairly sure they think they have bought enough rope and are now testing its tensile strength.
1
Lenin is the actual author of that quote, not NK
1
So Xi has realized Trump is as crazy as 55% of Americans know him to be. Keep calling President Xi, we are going to need your pressure to keep Donald's finger off that big red button. Never thought I would see the day when the fate of the world might rely on the rationality of Chinese leaders.
30
as we continue to ignore this thing we are getting closer to have north korean weaponry on our shores
we need to do something, because today its japan and south korea next year it will be us
what other option is there?
we need to do something, because today its japan and south korea next year it will be us
what other option is there?
2
I believe there is a little known understanding among the nations in the nuclear club; 'once you got them you realize you can't use them.' The U.S. and the Soviet Union called it Mutually Assured Destruction (MAD). This has to be true otherwise, since the fall of the USSR, someone would have used one already. This belief is not scientific, it just makes sense. The "race" seems to be whether you have them or not to be taken more seriously on the world stage. North Korea is yet to make such a realization but they will. They may consider the South to be nuclear armed already as a protectorate of the US. To them, it's just leveling the playing field.
Yes, Kim Jong-un is "mad" but he's actually on a leach. The Chinese have become good capitalists and do not want N. Korea blowing up their fat export markets in America or America defaulting on debt. On this basis China is a rev limiter that Trump is fortunate to have. Maybe Trump should "pledge" not to use nukes in any interventions which could slow the North's nuclear haste. Trump is up a tree with no way to step down unless the Chinese give him a latter. America and China are intertwined in ways the US and Russia are not (commerce). This is not the "winning" that everyone thought we were being signed up for. There are no quick strike Trumpian "wins" here, just watch for diplomacy based on the 'bottom line.' Trump can't resolve N Korea any more than he'll provide jobs or health care. Sad.
Yes, Kim Jong-un is "mad" but he's actually on a leach. The Chinese have become good capitalists and do not want N. Korea blowing up their fat export markets in America or America defaulting on debt. On this basis China is a rev limiter that Trump is fortunate to have. Maybe Trump should "pledge" not to use nukes in any interventions which could slow the North's nuclear haste. Trump is up a tree with no way to step down unless the Chinese give him a latter. America and China are intertwined in ways the US and Russia are not (commerce). This is not the "winning" that everyone thought we were being signed up for. There are no quick strike Trumpian "wins" here, just watch for diplomacy based on the 'bottom line.' Trump can't resolve N Korea any more than he'll provide jobs or health care. Sad.
1
The North Korean nuclear agenda is going to be the real test of Mr. Trump's presidency. There are no good options other than a mutually acceptable resolution that includes both Mr. Trump and his counterpart Mr. Kim in North Korea. (Will an adult accommodation be possible between two adolescent boys?)What that resolution will entail might be the great diplomatic feat of the Century. Is Donald Trump up to it?
3
The fact that Trump is not including South Korea in these discussions with Japan and China is troubling - the power vacuum there right now provides the opportunity for it to be exploited.
Hoping the ego of Trump doesn't condemn hundreds or thousands of S.Koreans from a brutal retaliatory strike that would be sure to follow any immediate military intervention in North Korea.
Hoping the ego of Trump doesn't condemn hundreds or thousands of S.Koreans from a brutal retaliatory strike that would be sure to follow any immediate military intervention in North Korea.
3
North Korea's risk has been silently increasing like type-2 diabetes. There are many factors that cause the disease, but the smoking gun is the sugar. In North Korea's case, the smoking gun is China that have maintained ambivalent attitude to North Korea. The US and The UN security council and other countries are the possible causes that triggered North Korea's nuclear ambition.
The Trump administration seems to have no strategy toward North Korea's crisis, and the crisis may end up in real war as China expresses as if China is the earnest observer of the situation. When the military attack by the US occurs, it will be China, before the US, to invade (or being invited) the North Korea, similar to the last Korean War. China will use all the excuse, but they will try to persuade North Korea to give up the nuclear ambition with possible regime change that would be friendly to China. In the meantime, The US solders, the South Koreans and the Japanese will encounter enormous casualties. Type-2 diabetes can be treated by the lifestyle change of the patient, but North Korea needs to realize lifestyle change is necessary.
The Trump administration seems to have no strategy toward North Korea's crisis, and the crisis may end up in real war as China expresses as if China is the earnest observer of the situation. When the military attack by the US occurs, it will be China, before the US, to invade (or being invited) the North Korea, similar to the last Korean War. China will use all the excuse, but they will try to persuade North Korea to give up the nuclear ambition with possible regime change that would be friendly to China. In the meantime, The US solders, the South Koreans and the Japanese will encounter enormous casualties. Type-2 diabetes can be treated by the lifestyle change of the patient, but North Korea needs to realize lifestyle change is necessary.
President Xi now has personal experience with President Trump. Post that meeting, China's comments, as related in this article, now confirm their legitimate belief, and my own, that China is the only adult in the room.
We have a SecState in Rex Tillerson who appears more to be the SecDef and a president whose temperament, inexperience and limited attention span presage a movement toward war.
Clearly, the Chinese recognize the bellicosity on both sides of the equation but their influence with N. Korea only goes so far. Relying upon China to conduct the foreign policy of the United States is a zero sum game.
Donald Trump's greatest test will determine the fate of over 25,000,000 million in and around the Korean Peninsula, at a minimum. As he looks into the abyss you have to wonder if his calculus includes an understanding that "winning" is about diplomacy and not war. Nothing to date suggest we ought be optimistic.
We have a SecState in Rex Tillerson who appears more to be the SecDef and a president whose temperament, inexperience and limited attention span presage a movement toward war.
Clearly, the Chinese recognize the bellicosity on both sides of the equation but their influence with N. Korea only goes so far. Relying upon China to conduct the foreign policy of the United States is a zero sum game.
Donald Trump's greatest test will determine the fate of over 25,000,000 million in and around the Korean Peninsula, at a minimum. As he looks into the abyss you have to wonder if his calculus includes an understanding that "winning" is about diplomacy and not war. Nothing to date suggest we ought be optimistic.
2
Almost made it through the entire article until I read the phrase, complicated and sensitive---a phrase that could signal a doomsday scenario with two leaders that are simple and callous.
37
On one side we have a psychopath who appears to have closed his mind to any rational thought; on the other, a narcissistic ignoramus hurtling threats with no effect. Why is it that the warmongers have rarely served in the military or any conflict? Those of us who have, cringe as these two megalomaniacs dare the other to make a move. Unless Trump listens to wise counsel (surely there must be some in the White House?) we could be on the brink of World War III.
71
"Unless Trump listens to wise counsel (surely there must be some in the White House?)"
They were replaced by rich old white yes-men from Mar-a-Loco, so nope.
They were replaced by rich old white yes-men from Mar-a-Loco, so nope.
14
On one side we have a psychopath who appears to have closed his mind to any rational thought; on the other, a narcissistic ignoramus hurtling threats with no effect
which is which again ?
i forget sometimes ...
11
This is humiliating. China as leader of the free world, lecturing the U.S.
72
I don't think it's a fair reading of Mr. Xi's comments to call it lecturing. Mr. Trump has called on China to help in this tense situation and the comments of Mr. Xi seem measured and helpful. Haven't we in the last century expended enough lives in armed conflict in that area of the world? We need reasoned heads, not hot heads to avert another asian disaster.
4
Thank goodness someone is talking back to him -- attempting to get him to connect with reality. The yes-men he's surrounded himself with certainly aren't.
8
No, China is lecturing the ignorant, clueless idiot sitting in the WH. Yes, it is humiliating for his voters.
6
This ignorant egomaniac must not be allowed to lead the world into nuclear war.
Is this not the "red line" that all patriotic Americans can draw in reigning in this man as President? We must speak loud and clear - in one voice - "NO" you will not take us into a nuclear - or any - war with North Korea just because you "love war"!
Do not bring down the wrath of the US on the people of North Korea just because they live under the rule of a narcissistic, immature mad man.
Is this not the "red line" that all patriotic Americans can draw in reigning in this man as President? We must speak loud and clear - in one voice - "NO" you will not take us into a nuclear - or any - war with North Korea just because you "love war"!
Do not bring down the wrath of the US on the people of North Korea just because they live under the rule of a narcissistic, immature mad man.
90
These are very scary times with a lunatic man in Pyongyang and an unstable and inexperienced man in the Washington.
I don't see how this crisis is going to end well.
I don't see how this crisis is going to end well.
110
Yes, it is extremely concerning situation...
Xi's not going to do anything about North Korea. Ever.
39
I think it's all showmanship. Trump doesn't have the votes in D.C. for a war with NK (or even a health care overhaul or tax cut bill). There's insufficient reason to get involved. SK would lose the most. You would need troops on the ground, costs would be huge...
On the other hand, war powers could be a pretext for other changes in the U.S. under the the rationale of "national security".
On the other hand, war powers could be a pretext for other changes in the U.S. under the the rationale of "national security".
25
"Trump doesn't have the votes in D.C. for a war with NK"
He didn't have "votes" for an attack on Syria either. Remember that he thinks it's his right to act "unpredictably" and without telling anyone what he intends to do—and that means not consulting Congress.
We are in deep water here, with a fool with no experience and no judgment with his tiny, insecure finger on the nuclear button.
Joe Scarborough and other Repubs claimed that those of us who were worried about that were exaggerating. Why? You don't give a three-year-old a loaded gun either.
He didn't have "votes" for an attack on Syria either. Remember that he thinks it's his right to act "unpredictably" and without telling anyone what he intends to do—and that means not consulting Congress.
We are in deep water here, with a fool with no experience and no judgment with his tiny, insecure finger on the nuclear button.
Joe Scarborough and other Repubs claimed that those of us who were worried about that were exaggerating. Why? You don't give a three-year-old a loaded gun either.
14