There is so much to say about harassment and it is so intertwined in our culture. Two men get paid millions after they sexual harassed their employees and/or coworkers for years . Some woman get paid millions for being harassed. Most woman never get anything but crap for being harassed. Most females in the US have been harassed in their lifetime. I have seen male on male harassment just as bad. Anyone they can take advantage of and/or is considered weak is going to be their target. It is going to take a lot of time and effort to break the mountain of inferiority complex masked as superiority complex that a harasser inflicts on anyone he/she wants to. The good old boys club attitude is still alive but it is not as well as it used to be. Maybe we all can do our part to move it along into the past. On the subject of unions... I will say Unions! Yes! Great pay, good benefits, hope.
40
Supposed to be "good" not "igloos"
6
You were not as intent on going after Bill Clinton when he was accused of sexual harassment with numerous women as you have been with Bill O'Reilly. Is it because Mr. Clinton was a liberal Democrat and Mr. O'Reilly was a conservative?
Mr. O'Reilly was critical of the liberal media including the New York Times and they were determined to get him terminated. He also was fair in his reporting of President Trump while the others were biased. The New York Times succeeded in their mission but Bill O'Reilly will resurface when they least expect it. He still has his many fans and he will begin a new chapter of his career. He will be bigger and better than before.
Mr. O'Reilly was critical of the liberal media including the New York Times and they were determined to get him terminated. He also was fair in his reporting of President Trump while the others were biased. The New York Times succeeded in their mission but Bill O'Reilly will resurface when they least expect it. He still has his many fans and he will begin a new chapter of his career. He will be bigger and better than before.
"For Women, It’s Not Just the O’Reilly Problem"
Do ALL women think in lockstep with the New York Times' editorial board then?
And, if women do not, are they not "real" women (google: No True Scotsman fallacy).
What a bizarrely insulting headline, one of many in this paper, unfortunately.
Do ALL women think in lockstep with the New York Times' editorial board then?
And, if women do not, are they not "real" women (google: No True Scotsman fallacy).
What a bizarrely insulting headline, one of many in this paper, unfortunately.
Fox executives have known about O'Reilly's sexual harassment issues for many years. They never did anything about it until the bad publicity and withdrawal of advertisers caused them financial damage. That is the real story here.
Off color jokes, unwanted attention to your appearance, the supervisor rubbing his crotch against your rear end in the elevator; hey, it's never meant to offend you...just having some fun and showing the rest of the boys that they are in charge. It is a corporate cultural issue and fines, demotions and training programs (please!) will not change it. Men have to own it and hold themselves accountable stop it. Don't hold your breath.
Off color jokes, unwanted attention to your appearance, the supervisor rubbing his crotch against your rear end in the elevator; hey, it's never meant to offend you...just having some fun and showing the rest of the boys that they are in charge. It is a corporate cultural issue and fines, demotions and training programs (please!) will not change it. Men have to own it and hold themselves accountable stop it. Don't hold your breath.
32
In my view, the disparity of pay, rights, opportunities, respect, etc. is encapsulated in the mantra of male "bullying." Just think about Donnie Dollars for a moment, his Attorney General Disaster, and Billow Reilly. They each embody the Neanderthal personality and practices that have served them so well in material life. They won't change; there is no reward for doing so. I don't enjoy this view nor my prediction that there's not a snowball's chance in hell of true equality arriving in America for a very long time. Ladies, prove me wrong.
25
The GOP's main mission since Clinton was elected has been to rent any protections for groups other than white men and to create a legal case for discrimination against white men. O'Reilly is just the latest example of their spectacular success.
19
All that's well and good, but you're not covering the sexual harassment lawsuit that's been filed against your own organization, or if you do it's a brief mention buried in some other article. It's the pot calling all the other kettles black.
11
As far back as I can see, women have always had to fight - not for respect, that's out of one's control and doesn't matter that much. Women have had to fight for dignity - their own dignity.
When you keep getting kicked, keep getting abused - even watching a despicable person like Bill O'Reilly walk away with millions and a thanks from Fox - it's easy to question your own self worth, your own dignity.
Women are stronger than men though, always have been because they've always had to be. That's why they make good role models.
At least Bill O'Reilly has plenty of money - because that's the only way a pig like him can get dignity, by buying it. But of course it can'e be bought. You have it or you don't.
Good riddance to him. As for women, they will fight on. They always do, and with dignity and grace.
When you keep getting kicked, keep getting abused - even watching a despicable person like Bill O'Reilly walk away with millions and a thanks from Fox - it's easy to question your own self worth, your own dignity.
Women are stronger than men though, always have been because they've always had to be. That's why they make good role models.
At least Bill O'Reilly has plenty of money - because that's the only way a pig like him can get dignity, by buying it. But of course it can'e be bought. You have it or you don't.
Good riddance to him. As for women, they will fight on. They always do, and with dignity and grace.
41
If O'Reilly, Ailes and Trump had black or brown skin, they would quickly be labeled "sexual predators" and prosecuted to the maximum. But they are rich, white and what has now come to be called "conservative." Part of the road to equal treatment for women is equal treatment for those who prey on them. Remember the pledge? It says "liberty and justice for ALL."
38
Not all sexual approaches by men are harassment. If the woman is interested i-- a little innuendo, an invitation to the dance, etc. is accepted. If, on the other hand, the woman isn't, the man may take a 2nd or 3rd swing but generally moves along. How often does it occur that a man in a position to advance the career of a woman (boss, mentor, some place up the chain), doesn't take no for an answer? How often do they keep trying once it is clear she isn't interested? How often do they escalate to groping or the offer of a quid pro quo OR threaten to hurt the woman's career?
I'm sure there are some boors who keep asking and hoping even though it is clear the object of their affection is not interested. And there is probably an even smaller % who attempt to use their position to coerce sexual favors.
Think of it this way. Lots of women dress to show off what their creator gave them and to turn male attention to their advantage -- I'm fun to look at -- hire me! A smaller % flirt but have no interest other than gaining favor with a man who can help them. A perhaps smaller % are seductive with or without intent to follow through. A % may actually fall for their boss. And a smaller %, perhaps equivalent to true harassers, try to sleep their way to the top.
A small % of men may harass, but women use their charms, sometimes quite deliberately, to gain favor.
And if a guy calls with sex on his mind and a woman isn't interested, hang up.
I'm sure there are some boors who keep asking and hoping even though it is clear the object of their affection is not interested. And there is probably an even smaller % who attempt to use their position to coerce sexual favors.
Think of it this way. Lots of women dress to show off what their creator gave them and to turn male attention to their advantage -- I'm fun to look at -- hire me! A smaller % flirt but have no interest other than gaining favor with a man who can help them. A perhaps smaller % are seductive with or without intent to follow through. A % may actually fall for their boss. And a smaller %, perhaps equivalent to true harassers, try to sleep their way to the top.
A small % of men may harass, but women use their charms, sometimes quite deliberately, to gain favor.
And if a guy calls with sex on his mind and a woman isn't interested, hang up.
6
This is an old boys world. The Koch Brothers, Warren Buffett, Bill Gates, and a massive population of Wall Street old boys. There is a woman here and there but just for salting the mother lode and making the old boys look more acceptable. Mr. Trump, perhaps an ex groper presumably along the lines of Ailes and O'Reilly, is now not only in Trump Tower but the Oval Office as well so it is high fives for the old boys again. We need a Bella Abzug or two or three to dish out the insults a la Mr. Trump and pack some political clout. Fading like Hillary after sandbagging Bernie Sanders is no way to put the old boys to flight. Maybe, like for Mr. Trump a fancy new hairdo along with some timely insults would put at least some of the old boys out to pasture.
9
From the Editorial "Reaching the top of the corporate ladder does not improve the situation. Among top earners in corporate America — at the 95th percentile of the wage distribution — women earn 74 cents for every dollar their male peers make." Question: 95th percentile of what wage distribution? I believe the 95th percentile of wage earners begins at about $150,000, hardly an income for someone at the "top of the corporate ladder." Please clarify.
3
I wonder if accountability is better in private companies vs public companies who have shareholders to answer to and the 99 percenters income wise pull the puppet strings. Shareholders need to vote better officers because government regulation is practically absent. The military has always been a leveler of diversity.
3
Corporate America is NOT fair to the worker, male or female. Letting the male subjugate the female makes the male feel better about the abuse he suffers. Let's face it, the workplace is designed for profit and making the male majority of workers feel more important helps keep them content.
19
Once, long ago, I thought I had complimented a woman I worked with during the Census by saying she looked nice. I was flabbergasted when she got angry at me for saying so. Is that really a serious faux pas for women these days?
It would be interesting to see how the women here will vote on that question.
It would be interesting to see how the women here will vote on that question.
2
This article raises great issues, & here are a few others I've noticed working in the nonprofit world: women get paid less for doing more, particularly of the "taking care of" work in the workplace: setting up, breaking down, taking notes, smoothing over relationships among workers, even if none of these things are part of their formal jobs. If someone needs to get things ready for a meeting, or if someone needs to volunteer to take notes, & all of the people around the table are generally of equal status, a woman usually ends up doing these things.
And another aspect of boards: people who serve on nonprofit boards serve for free. I haven't seen statistics, but I'll just bet you anything that the gender percentages on nonprofit boards is quite different from paid corporate board positions. Nonprofit board members are basically volunteers, & the world of volunteering is full of women: schools, churches, community foundations, charity groups. And many of these women, of course, also work for pay & have family responsibilities. I sure know I did, & I was expected to treat my board positions like part time jobs. I noticed that men were often on these nonprofit boards for the status their higher positions lent to the organizations, while women were there to do the real work.
And women are still usually the ones performing the "second shift" at home. Whether or not both members in a relationship work, the female member still does most of the housework, child, & eldercare.
And another aspect of boards: people who serve on nonprofit boards serve for free. I haven't seen statistics, but I'll just bet you anything that the gender percentages on nonprofit boards is quite different from paid corporate board positions. Nonprofit board members are basically volunteers, & the world of volunteering is full of women: schools, churches, community foundations, charity groups. And many of these women, of course, also work for pay & have family responsibilities. I sure know I did, & I was expected to treat my board positions like part time jobs. I noticed that men were often on these nonprofit boards for the status their higher positions lent to the organizations, while women were there to do the real work.
And women are still usually the ones performing the "second shift" at home. Whether or not both members in a relationship work, the female member still does most of the housework, child, & eldercare.
18
I am a woman, now sixty, and have worked in the construction field (contracts, project manager, etc.) at quite a few construction companies over the years.
I would advise all women and men to dress appropriately and conservatively for the job they were hired to do.
This is especially true of women. If they dress provocatively to attract attention it will invariably lead to attention they don't want.
Please don't allow the discussion of equal pay, etc., to be dominated by men claiming that your provocative attire, demeanor, etc., led to an uneven playing field with them.
I would advise all women and men to dress appropriately and conservatively for the job they were hired to do.
This is especially true of women. If they dress provocatively to attract attention it will invariably lead to attention they don't want.
Please don't allow the discussion of equal pay, etc., to be dominated by men claiming that your provocative attire, demeanor, etc., led to an uneven playing field with them.
16
In one of the most supposedly progressive countries in the world, the disparities between men and women in the American work place is stunning. It is not helpful that one looks at the Trump White House and sees an overwhelmingly male administration, and white, at that. The women who have achieved success in the workplace probably had to endure numerous Bill O'Reillys in their professional lives. Women who are economically marginalized with no way forward likely endure harassment on a regular basis, with no avenue for litigation. Unfortunately, our current administration is not going to do much to discourage the current atmosphere that exists in the American workplace. Trump himself exhibited, and still exhibits misogynistic behavior towards women, a reality that can be attested to by his testosterone-laden administration, as well as his outright support for Bill O'Reilly. It remains to be seen whether he will pay any heed to daughter Ivanka's "equal pay for equal work" campaign. For all of her conflicts of interest, this is one area where she could achieve some good for women. But on the local level, unionization would indeed provide a way forward, but once again, Republicans are not union-friendly, and alas, we are living in Republican times. We need to start locally by electing Democratic women to positions in which they can fight for unions, for the economically marginalized, and be role models for young girls. Role models who show us that we no longer have to be silent.
18
"Still other research shows that decision making improves when it involves both men and women."
Tom Brady recently won his fifth Super Bowl (seventh appearance) not doing that. I "never made the team" because I wasn't good enough. He's at the stadium before Coach Belichick, saying, "It's not like I have any hobbies." Who should I sue? Sometimes other people are just better.
Tom Brady recently won his fifth Super Bowl (seventh appearance) not doing that. I "never made the team" because I wasn't good enough. He's at the stadium before Coach Belichick, saying, "It's not like I have any hobbies." Who should I sue? Sometimes other people are just better.
3
Having been through the workplace gauntlet, one senses it is either have children or work (twice as hard as a man) for promotion. Why is that? Because at a certain age, women are no longer considered the bright rising symbol of corporate diversity. Experience is something that only counts for older men but not for older women. How many people can make the executive committee by age 40-45. Boy everything better go right and on track to do that. Certainly after age 45-50, women have fewer opportunities to move into leadership positions. Women have fewer years to be rewarded for a lifetime of work, just as though it's a beauty contest. Just look at the numbers, not the age of leading now, but the age they are elevated. Sure there are exceptions, but the numbers tell the story.
It starts in the home. If boys are not taught to respect elders and others, they grow into men that have little concept of communication and respect of others. If girls are not respected by older females and males, they will not learn to respect themselves and ask for what's right and fair.
By 2017, we are no longer Puritans in the this country. Let's leave the puritanical yoke of oppression that places women and children as chattel.
It will only change when the old patriarchal guard dies out and more enlightened & educated generations lead. Let's encourage that patriarchy (AND the misguided matriarchy that is slave to the patriarch) to take early retirement!
By 2017, we are no longer Puritans in the this country. Let's leave the puritanical yoke of oppression that places women and children as chattel.
It will only change when the old patriarchal guard dies out and more enlightened & educated generations lead. Let's encourage that patriarchy (AND the misguided matriarchy that is slave to the patriarch) to take early retirement!
13
It is not just males who are keeping female wages low.
Upper class females oppress lower class females.
http://wamc.org/post/dr-vanessa-may-seton-hall-university-labor-law-and-...
Domestics represented the largest category of women workers before 1940 but were excluded from wage and hour legislation until 1974. In contrast, many women industrial workers were covered by labor laws as early as 1908. By 1938, New Deal labor legislation covered both men and women. How had domestics been left out of these reforms?
In 1938, reformers launched a nationwide campaign to pass state labor laws for workers not covered by the federal Fair Labor Standards Act, including domestics. In New York, two bills proposed a minimum wage and maximum hours for domestics. Surprisingly, prominent WOMEN’S organizations, including the YWCA, the Consumers' League, the League of WOMEN Voters, and the WOMEN’S City Club, refused to fully support the bills. These groups had lobbied hard for the Fair Labor Standards Act. They had written, campaigned for, and championed much of the progressive legislation that made the New Deal transformative. A bill for domestic labor standards could not pass without their support.
Why were they so reluctant? First, the members of these organizations were middle and upper-class WOMEN worried about maintaining access to CHEAP household help. They, like professionals today, depended on domestics to do the housework while they pursued other interests
Upper class females oppress lower class females.
http://wamc.org/post/dr-vanessa-may-seton-hall-university-labor-law-and-...
Domestics represented the largest category of women workers before 1940 but were excluded from wage and hour legislation until 1974. In contrast, many women industrial workers were covered by labor laws as early as 1908. By 1938, New Deal labor legislation covered both men and women. How had domestics been left out of these reforms?
In 1938, reformers launched a nationwide campaign to pass state labor laws for workers not covered by the federal Fair Labor Standards Act, including domestics. In New York, two bills proposed a minimum wage and maximum hours for domestics. Surprisingly, prominent WOMEN’S organizations, including the YWCA, the Consumers' League, the League of WOMEN Voters, and the WOMEN’S City Club, refused to fully support the bills. These groups had lobbied hard for the Fair Labor Standards Act. They had written, campaigned for, and championed much of the progressive legislation that made the New Deal transformative. A bill for domestic labor standards could not pass without their support.
Why were they so reluctant? First, the members of these organizations were middle and upper-class WOMEN worried about maintaining access to CHEAP household help. They, like professionals today, depended on domestics to do the housework while they pursued other interests
14
Somehow I think we're all missing something here. We talk endlessly about gender rights and parity - and no one ever brings up children's rights. I'm not advocating relegating women to child raising (although it is they who actually bring the child into the world), but I am seriously questioning where attention to the rights of children fit into this discussion. They need nurture - it can be provided in many ways, but in the end we should be concerned about the rights of ALL and how we can arrange for everyone to fulfill their life without excessive hassle.
3
As a father, I am equally responsible for bringing my child into the world and the subsequent nurture.
4
What is it that you are advocating then? A woman's working life is 50 years. How many of those years will she be spending full-time nurturing her 2.1 children on average? Shall she accept 20% less for her labor for those entire 50 years because of time spent with the kids when they are young? Who will advocate for the children if those caring for them have no voice?
11
So there are untold numbers of women who are terribly fearful for untold decades? Not any women that I have known. I smell rotten fish. It makes no logical sense except when the money factor is put in, then it becomes a matter of selling one's soul for a buck, and the buck never coming. Streetwalkers have always had this problem. And the advertisers are cowards giving in to blackmailers.
2
So because you've never known a woman who is afraid to report an abusive man for fear it will get discounted or in some way come back to haunt them means that there's no such thing?
5
@kenneth casper---
So there are untold numbers of women who are terribly fearful for untold decades? Not any women that I have known.
Wow..where to begin with this. I suggest you read every comment in this section and count your stars that your livelihood was never based on how pretty you looked or whether you were going to put out for your next pay raise. Your comment is stunning to me.
So there are untold numbers of women who are terribly fearful for untold decades? Not any women that I have known.
Wow..where to begin with this. I suggest you read every comment in this section and count your stars that your livelihood was never based on how pretty you looked or whether you were going to put out for your next pay raise. Your comment is stunning to me.
21
Was O'Reilly Lying during his recorded conversation(s) or just acting?
2
April 23, 2017
However, in our social media knows and sees everything there's hope for these type of warfare attacks to find retribution - all towards the quality for having an honorable mature adult pride in living with grace's moderation in all the affairs that we must deliver as worthy American citizens as examples to each other - so the O'Reilly restitution is best for him and especially our finest cultural for personal & national family to emulate.
Even this quote is not forever - we all must work to keeping faith in social discourse with honor and exemplary happiness.
“One half of the world cannot understand the pleasures of the other.”
― Jane Austen, Emma
jja Manhattan, N.Y.
However, in our social media knows and sees everything there's hope for these type of warfare attacks to find retribution - all towards the quality for having an honorable mature adult pride in living with grace's moderation in all the affairs that we must deliver as worthy American citizens as examples to each other - so the O'Reilly restitution is best for him and especially our finest cultural for personal & national family to emulate.
Even this quote is not forever - we all must work to keeping faith in social discourse with honor and exemplary happiness.
“One half of the world cannot understand the pleasures of the other.”
― Jane Austen, Emma
jja Manhattan, N.Y.
3
We have to acknowledge the bigger issue in society. In aggregate, the work place reflects the mores of larger society. Who are these employers? The vast majority have wives and daughters. Who are these male harassers? The vast majority have wives, and daughters. Although there are pockets of exception, society as a whole still sees less value in women--and it starts with the lowest denominator the family unit.
I employ professional women. I am particularly sensitive to development and promotion and fair compensation. However, I frequently loose out as many women leave in consideration of their husband's careers--many who are not as accomplished. For other women, all domestic activities are near 100% there's, with minimal help from their husbands-- even if the male partner is in a less demanding position. We make accommodations at work in consideration of domestic pressures, but careers develop much slower when things are unequal at home.
I'm always perplexed that many women accept this arrangement as normal and the natural order of things. It seems these family units have self defined the worth of the women in the household and thus set societal expectations. The work place merely holds up the mirror and is a reflection of what goes on in the majority of our homes.
I employ professional women. I am particularly sensitive to development and promotion and fair compensation. However, I frequently loose out as many women leave in consideration of their husband's careers--many who are not as accomplished. For other women, all domestic activities are near 100% there's, with minimal help from their husbands-- even if the male partner is in a less demanding position. We make accommodations at work in consideration of domestic pressures, but careers develop much slower when things are unequal at home.
I'm always perplexed that many women accept this arrangement as normal and the natural order of things. It seems these family units have self defined the worth of the women in the household and thus set societal expectations. The work place merely holds up the mirror and is a reflection of what goes on in the majority of our homes.
22
Yes, it starts in the home when daughters witness their mothers having their fathers' last names, doing the bulk of unpaid caregiving and participating in patriarchal religious and cultural institutions. Even Eve was blamed for leading poor Adam astray in the Garden of Eden. Women have less power but more blame for men's behavior. Boys learn these things too, as evidenced by some of the attitudes expressed in these comments.
18
From the earliest days of the suffrage movement, to the Civil Rights era, to the VietNam protests it seems that social movements need the edge of radicalism to make their points. To the degree that there even is a women's "movement" at this moment, there needs to be leadership and focus on a single or very limited number of issues. Societal pain points need to be assessed and pressed; kumbaya will not do. Nevertheless ... we must persist.
6
Part of the corporate culture has made it taboo for workers to discuss their pay with co-workers. This permits corporations to pay unfairly. The person sitting in the next cube, doing the same job as you, may make more or less than you do on the whim of your supervisor.
12
I was a federal civil servant for 27 years. Our pay levels were public knowledge always.
8
Sexism and gender discrimination is not a partisan issue and the debate should be squarely on why the United States lags behind its western counterparts in gender equality and women's rights. The revelation that Fox News' defiance against Punitive measures came only after weighting the financial implications of stock shares and advertising dollars should be unacceptable to every American. How can a major News Network be a seen again as a credible source of information if they can not uphold appropriate workplace rules and practices. There are no lessons drawn here if we just go back to business as usual. Some of the comments in this editorial ask Women to Stand up and speak out. Women have been standing up and speaking out, and often face retaliation. Their creditability and motives often questioned. Instead, Men should stand along side women and speak out. Advertisers stand with women -- who are your mothers, daughters, nieces, colleagues, friends - and invest only in companies that uphold equitable work place practices.
9
Way back then, when I was a single parent, they hired a guy to work for me. They paid him more than I made. The reason: he had a family to support! Unfortunately, in the 48 years since then, the mindset is the same, despite years of women fighting for equality. (Picture the room full of dark-suited men discussing womens' health issues!) I just wish I could say something more positive.
37
I'm surprised that this isn't brought up more. I think men still being thought of as supporting families is a significant part of the reason for pay differences between the sexes.
9
That Lily Ledbetter case in AL was dripping in that issue (Managers with less years, less experience paid more than her). Even after she "Proved" what was claimed as a False Case,..they then hit her with,..well you proved it too Late.
The irony is only surpassed by the tragedy of it.
The irony is only surpassed by the tragedy of it.
I'd like to believe these things will change, but we live in a world where a room full of men (white, rich, powerful) feel completely comfortable making life-or-death decisions for women, without consulting us, or considering what we've said (or yelled at a march), or even noticing that there isn't so much as one of us in the room with them.
But we can't give up the fight. They'll never give us anything; we have to take it.
But we can't give up the fight. They'll never give us anything; we have to take it.
23
Y'know, guys, calling on women to fix this just rankles. You have a role to play, too. One of my favorite signs at the Women's March was carried by men and read: "Not my locker room"; these men stepped up to change the culture. This is a change we all need to be engaged in. Will you just stand there while a colleague harasses a fellow worker, expecting her to "get over" the mental and physical drain of the abuse to lead the fight to stop it? How do we work together to fix this? Here are some steps the largest geoscience society is taking: http://harassment.agu.org/ One mechanism, as mentioned by others, will be a way to report independent of HR. Another is Bystander Intervention Training: how to have that tough conversation that ends with: "...so we don't tolerate that behavior here".
17
Igloos points, but I would think most harassment takes place when nobody is around so that the accuser has no witnesses and the accused can deny.
3
I use to work for a large aerospace firm. We were regularly enforced by government contracts to attend "diversity" training by company representatives. At one such session addressing women in the work place, some brave soul pointed that out the entire management chain top to bottom was almost exclusively white males. The company response was that the company couldn't find any qualified women to be managers. Being the dutiful drone that I was not wanting to lose my job refrained from pointing out that I had worked for a number of different managers that were incompetent and woefully unqualified and that didn't seem to stop the company from promoting them.
20
Throughout recorded history and with rare exception we men have physically forced women to bend to our will. The reason, if it can be considered such, may hinge on our knowledge that women are biologically more important.
While both sperm and ova can be stored in a frozen state only women provide the physical incubator needed for embryonic growth which may be why at some level we men try to keep women "barefoot in the winter and pregnant in the summer" as a form of acceptable slavery. Thanks in part to this attitude workplace disparity of both pay and promotion maintains its' foothold.
At some point in early human history some historians and anthropologists consider the possibility that a matriarchy was the basis of social order and while this is a debate which may never be settled it does seem a reasonable position. Men rule by virtue of force which some may consider an extension of reason while others, myself included, think of it as the abandonment of same.
The clear message sent by wage and promotional disparity is that men's rule sublimates reason in favor of force as the means of social control.
Until we men abandon this knuckle dragging attitude the societies we represent will remain our own planet of the apes.
While both sperm and ova can be stored in a frozen state only women provide the physical incubator needed for embryonic growth which may be why at some level we men try to keep women "barefoot in the winter and pregnant in the summer" as a form of acceptable slavery. Thanks in part to this attitude workplace disparity of both pay and promotion maintains its' foothold.
At some point in early human history some historians and anthropologists consider the possibility that a matriarchy was the basis of social order and while this is a debate which may never be settled it does seem a reasonable position. Men rule by virtue of force which some may consider an extension of reason while others, myself included, think of it as the abandonment of same.
The clear message sent by wage and promotional disparity is that men's rule sublimates reason in favor of force as the means of social control.
Until we men abandon this knuckle dragging attitude the societies we represent will remain our own planet of the apes.
15
Trump killed the "Fair Pay and Safe Workplaces" order by President Obama that forced federal contractors to follow federal laws such as OSHA, ADA, Minimum Wage, FMLA, etc., without violations for the previous three years. It meant that contractors could not require arbitration for disputes from Title VII of the Civil Rights Act or related to sexual assault or harassment but would permit victims to have their day in court. Trump himself had many accusations against him for sexual misconduct (by at least 15 women) and openly bragged about being able to grab women between the legs since he was wealthy. As with other lawsuits, his habit was to threaten the victims with lengthy and expensive legal proceedings or to pay them off including non-disclosure agreements.
There will never be justice for women or minorities in a Trump administration. Trump brought out an avalanche of misogyny (seen vividly on this comment board, for example) and emboldened sexism as well as the rise of hate crimes and hate speech.
There will never be justice for women or minorities in a Trump administration. Trump brought out an avalanche of misogyny (seen vividly on this comment board, for example) and emboldened sexism as well as the rise of hate crimes and hate speech.
19
You have the wrong guy.
Gays shun women and are covertly misogynists.
3
I'll hazard a guess that O'Reilly never demanded sexual favors, never physically touched ladies where he worked. Does that exonerate him? No. But there does seem to be some sort of irony here. Regardless, his manner and speech was consistently boorish and vulgar. Such offenses against decorum should be cast out from the public arena and the workplace, whether the object is women, men CEOs, wasps - whomever. One can be frivolous or lighthearted without a descent to the gutter.
1
And just why do you think he was basically a saint?
7
And yet, with so many allegations running counter to your hazarded guess, this is now for the court--or the marketplace FOX is so fond of preserving--to decide.
The media did not report Bill Clinton's sexual harassment to the extent that they are reporting Bill O'Reilly's. That was probably due to his being a liberal Democrat but surprising since he held the most important office in the world. Hillary Clinton blamed and defamed those women who came forward and ruined these women's reputations.
Bill O'Reilly was a conservative and called out the unfair treatment of them and this was his downfall. The progressives were determined to have him terminated and they succeeded.
We will no doubt see and hear from Bill O'Reilly in the near future as he embarks on a second venture. Those of us who support him cannot wait. He will be bigger and better than before. You cannot keep down talented people as they are rare these days.
Bill O'Reilly was a conservative and called out the unfair treatment of them and this was his downfall. The progressives were determined to have him terminated and they succeeded.
We will no doubt see and hear from Bill O'Reilly in the near future as he embarks on a second venture. Those of us who support him cannot wait. He will be bigger and better than before. You cannot keep down talented people as they are rare these days.
As is the case with every known social problem -- misogyny has a core issue, that must be addressed, before all other related issues can be ameliorated.
And, such a core issue, in regard to misogyny, is religion.
Every religion is misogynistic, only some much more misogynistic than others.
And, as long as females, continue to be the glue, that holds all of these misogynistic religions together, their male counterparts know that institutionalized misogyny has a life of its own.
Marx calls such self-imposed female misogyny. having a "false consciousness."
A false consciousness brainwashed into the overwhelming majority of females, by their man-dominated social groups -- and legitimized by their man-dominated religious beliefs (which are all man-made).
All females should convert to Unitarianism -- as their first step towards emancipation.
And, such a core issue, in regard to misogyny, is religion.
Every religion is misogynistic, only some much more misogynistic than others.
And, as long as females, continue to be the glue, that holds all of these misogynistic religions together, their male counterparts know that institutionalized misogyny has a life of its own.
Marx calls such self-imposed female misogyny. having a "false consciousness."
A false consciousness brainwashed into the overwhelming majority of females, by their man-dominated social groups -- and legitimized by their man-dominated religious beliefs (which are all man-made).
All females should convert to Unitarianism -- as their first step towards emancipation.
Not a comment, just a kind of vote: please keep writing editorials like this, please keep focused on issues of women's equality. From the number of comments, you can see that your readers care about this.
12
They are, and have been for decades, preaching to the choir. Fear not for they will not be changing anytime soon.
1
Women are human beings - this is still the most radical statement that it is possible to make.
10
This is true in the entertainment industry, which is what news becomes once it has to "make money". Men dominate everywhere. Why? Fox chooses its female anchors based mostly on looks first and ability next.
Do you know how few women conduct operas or musicals? Do you know how few women are record producers? Do you know how few women are record companies or opera company executives? Broadway producers (maybe a few more there), or movie directors are producers? Any almost none are non-white. We might have made some progress, but not much. Those who complain are kicked out. That's not new.
Shame on the women who voted for the man in the oval office who is one of those same men who prey on women when they can get away with it. "Nice" to women when it seems expedient and behind closed doors, just a creep. Does Melania ever look happy to you?
Decades more work ahead.
Do you know how few women conduct operas or musicals? Do you know how few women are record producers? Do you know how few women are record companies or opera company executives? Broadway producers (maybe a few more there), or movie directors are producers? Any almost none are non-white. We might have made some progress, but not much. Those who complain are kicked out. That's not new.
Shame on the women who voted for the man in the oval office who is one of those same men who prey on women when they can get away with it. "Nice" to women when it seems expedient and behind closed doors, just a creep. Does Melania ever look happy to you?
Decades more work ahead.
20
Women own extraordinary stock positions, they simply don't vote them.
2
Women need to embrace unions, perhaps even organize female only unions until the pay gap is eliminated. Corporations should cease offering golden parachutes to abusers like O'Reilly and instead turn them over to police for prosecution.
10
Attitudes about men and women begin at home.How was your Mom treated by your Dad?He didn't have to beat her to show how little respect he had for her.
This pervasive lack of respect has grown into a huge number of corporations and in our Government where a female Senator,senator Warren is forced to stop reading a letter having to do with civil rights.Look at business ceos ...men. and the Congress The majority of members are men,a few are African American.The intelligence level does not stand out in regard to their bills and decisions.Perhaps they really do represent us!A really scary thought!
This pervasive lack of respect has grown into a huge number of corporations and in our Government where a female Senator,senator Warren is forced to stop reading a letter having to do with civil rights.Look at business ceos ...men. and the Congress The majority of members are men,a few are African American.The intelligence level does not stand out in regard to their bills and decisions.Perhaps they really do represent us!A really scary thought!
11
When I read these comments I notice that no one wants to address the real issue here, it is called racism. The women that vote for Republicans are racist in the fact that this is the fundamental tenet of the party. So, if we are going to make progress, stop normalizing racism. If women are going to attain equality on all levels; then racism needs to be obliterated. Keep it front and center.
4
This is only half the problem, the other half is sexism.
9
Thank you for mansplaining.
7
Thank you Times for making the obvious connection between O'Reilly's decades old harassment allegations and the famous Pay Gap. O'Reilly's clumsy advances clearly cost women everywhere money by making them poorer negotiators. Also, timely too, because we should focus on a very serious Pay Gap offender: Senator Elizabeth Warren who was found by the Washington Times to pay women only 71% of what she pays men. Hillary Clinton and President Obama had similar Pay Gaps - Google it. And we know that last month the NYT was accused of sexism for not promoting female editors by its female editorial staff. So I agree with the Times, if we can somehow tackle the rank misogyny of Warren, Clinton, Obama, and the sexism of the New York Times, we can begin to make the working world a better place for women.
The Times should publish its comp averages by gender. First, comparison of average comp paid across the organization. What I'm sure they'll show is men on average are paid more. So let's all boycott those who advertise with the Times. Outrageous you say? Maybe not.
And let's say the boycott was successful -- and readers started cancelling their subscriptions in protest as well. What would the Times do? Well, they might promise to do better, but then they also might delve deeper into their own data and protest that the average comp differences merely reflect market differences in what different jobs are paid and that women at the Times are over represented in lower paid jobs. BUT -- that in the same job, women and men receive equal pay. Higher % of women in clerical positions, higher percentage of male ace reporters and editors.
But readers then protest the Time's hiring and promotional policies create the job imbalance. At that point the Times will do more digging and defend itself by saying while they hire equally for entry level jobs, the overall market place at higher levels has more males AND that despite their best efforts, more women elect to opt out of journalism as a career. Or similar arguments -- which may hold more than a grain of truth.
Oh, and just found something interesting -- of all media outlets, according to a study in USA Today, the Times has the lowest rate of female byline % of any major news outlet. Hmmmm....
And let's say the boycott was successful -- and readers started cancelling their subscriptions in protest as well. What would the Times do? Well, they might promise to do better, but then they also might delve deeper into their own data and protest that the average comp differences merely reflect market differences in what different jobs are paid and that women at the Times are over represented in lower paid jobs. BUT -- that in the same job, women and men receive equal pay. Higher % of women in clerical positions, higher percentage of male ace reporters and editors.
But readers then protest the Time's hiring and promotional policies create the job imbalance. At that point the Times will do more digging and defend itself by saying while they hire equally for entry level jobs, the overall market place at higher levels has more males AND that despite their best efforts, more women elect to opt out of journalism as a career. Or similar arguments -- which may hold more than a grain of truth.
Oh, and just found something interesting -- of all media outlets, according to a study in USA Today, the Times has the lowest rate of female byline % of any major news outlet. Hmmmm....
9
Corporations via committee need to evaluate themselves on women's issues. They need to first identify the issues and then measure themselves against others who are doing it right.
The matter of sexual harassment should be spelled out clearly in a policy statement. Termination should be a given.
Now for this O'Reilly schadenfreude festival. First, we have to stop using the noun "predator." Bill Cosby was a predator. Bill Clinton was accused of rape in addition to his use of power over an intern his daughter's age.
Roger Ailes and O'Reilly were boors. There's a difference. No hands were placed on any women. Just their boorish language resulted in their demise. And rightfully so.
CNN, MSNBC, and the liberal print media were unrestrained in pummeling Fox News and these two older pathetic men. This used to be the stuff of supermarket tabloids. There was a time that this newspaper would not stoop to such obvious glee.
Next, I'll eat my hat if there is no sexual harassment at the other cable stations. And what makes you think the NY Times is so pristine? Perhaps it's not boorish, but I'll bet its there in another shape or manner.
My advice to women being harassed is as follows:
1. Stop he abuser in his tracks. 2. Go straight to HR and make record of it. 3. If they stall, contact the Human Rights commission and make a workplace complaint.
The matter of sexual harassment should be spelled out clearly in a policy statement. Termination should be a given.
Now for this O'Reilly schadenfreude festival. First, we have to stop using the noun "predator." Bill Cosby was a predator. Bill Clinton was accused of rape in addition to his use of power over an intern his daughter's age.
Roger Ailes and O'Reilly were boors. There's a difference. No hands were placed on any women. Just their boorish language resulted in their demise. And rightfully so.
CNN, MSNBC, and the liberal print media were unrestrained in pummeling Fox News and these two older pathetic men. This used to be the stuff of supermarket tabloids. There was a time that this newspaper would not stoop to such obvious glee.
Next, I'll eat my hat if there is no sexual harassment at the other cable stations. And what makes you think the NY Times is so pristine? Perhaps it's not boorish, but I'll bet its there in another shape or manner.
My advice to women being harassed is as follows:
1. Stop he abuser in his tracks. 2. Go straight to HR and make record of it. 3. If they stall, contact the Human Rights commission and make a workplace complaint.
5
"Casting stones in glass towers" as a sad attempt to obtain absolution, yet it is so apropos for an organization that masters the parsing of information on a mass scale.
https://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/15/business/media/jill-abramson-being-re...
Perhaps the New York Times should release to the public their employment and salary data, to see if New York Times is actually worthy of promoting "pay equality" or is the organization just like any other business promoting their product in a less than factual reality only to make money?
https://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/15/business/media/jill-abramson-being-re...
Perhaps the New York Times should release to the public their employment and salary data, to see if New York Times is actually worthy of promoting "pay equality" or is the organization just like any other business promoting their product in a less than factual reality only to make money?
9
Witness poor women in our country. They need subsidized child care to help stop their poverty cycle. Religious groups need to let them access family planning. The patriarchal foundations that force poor women into unwanted pregnancies and then keep them metaphorically barefoot tell all women what we think of their hopes and dreams.
6
Some things must be said again and again:
Nationally, Republicans are planning to make healthcare & contraception harder for women to obtain. Trump's order to defund Planned Parenthood affects millions of working women, low income, and the poorest.
This is a male majority of Republicans determining women's private lives.
Secondly, if Trump and his party continue to sabotage the Affordable Care Act,
55 million women will lose access to birth control, and thus lose control of their personal lives.
The ACA provides for no-copay birth control. And women achieved personal reproductive freedom: control of their own destinies by control over their own reproductive lives.
Prescriptions for pills can be as much as $50 a month. An IUD is $1000.
A birth control implant in the arm goes for $400 and $800. These costs would be difficult for many women. Plus the costs for follow up care.
Also, under the ACA, women obtained preventive care and were no longer charged more than men or denied coverage for being pregnant.
This last bill Republicans tried to pass to replace the ACA denied women that coverage.
In January, it took a female----Democratic Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand--- to step up with an amendment to protect/preserve women’s health care, including contraceptive counseling, birth control, and maternity care, and primary and preventive health care.
https://www.congress.gov/amendment/115th-congress/senate-amendment/82/text
Nationally, Republicans are planning to make healthcare & contraception harder for women to obtain. Trump's order to defund Planned Parenthood affects millions of working women, low income, and the poorest.
This is a male majority of Republicans determining women's private lives.
Secondly, if Trump and his party continue to sabotage the Affordable Care Act,
55 million women will lose access to birth control, and thus lose control of their personal lives.
The ACA provides for no-copay birth control. And women achieved personal reproductive freedom: control of their own destinies by control over their own reproductive lives.
Prescriptions for pills can be as much as $50 a month. An IUD is $1000.
A birth control implant in the arm goes for $400 and $800. These costs would be difficult for many women. Plus the costs for follow up care.
Also, under the ACA, women obtained preventive care and were no longer charged more than men or denied coverage for being pregnant.
This last bill Republicans tried to pass to replace the ACA denied women that coverage.
In January, it took a female----Democratic Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand--- to step up with an amendment to protect/preserve women’s health care, including contraceptive counseling, birth control, and maternity care, and primary and preventive health care.
https://www.congress.gov/amendment/115th-congress/senate-amendment/82/text
13
Lots of incomplete / misinformation here. If anyone would actually like to be informed about the actual data and reality behind the claims in this editorial, check this podcast out from a Harvard professor that has spent years studying the issue.
http://freakonomics.com/podcast/the-true-story-of-the-gender-pay-gap-a-n...
http://freakonomics.com/podcast/the-true-story-of-the-gender-pay-gap-a-n...
1
I don't believe women want equality with men; they want preference over them.
Is it not true that there's no law prohibiting a woman from starting her own business and discriminating against men in hiring an all female staff? The SBA has a website that encourages just that. https://www.sba.gov/starting-business/how-start-business/business-types/....
Is it not true that women dress seductively in certain employment settings, knowing that this draws a man's attention to their body parts rather than their brains?
Is it still not true that women are more likely to receive child custody, alimony, and child support than men and that any attempt to level the playing field in child rearing post divorce is vehemently resisted by women?
Rather than portraying women as victims, I believe the conversation should revolve around concepts that men should totally avoid women and their sexual advances, particularly in the workplace. The moment a man compliments a woman's femininity or engages her on an emotional level, that's the moment she has the upper hand, can scream "abuse", and shun responsibility for her own role in creating the situation.
Is it not true that there's no law prohibiting a woman from starting her own business and discriminating against men in hiring an all female staff? The SBA has a website that encourages just that. https://www.sba.gov/starting-business/how-start-business/business-types/....
Is it not true that women dress seductively in certain employment settings, knowing that this draws a man's attention to their body parts rather than their brains?
Is it still not true that women are more likely to receive child custody, alimony, and child support than men and that any attempt to level the playing field in child rearing post divorce is vehemently resisted by women?
Rather than portraying women as victims, I believe the conversation should revolve around concepts that men should totally avoid women and their sexual advances, particularly in the workplace. The moment a man compliments a woman's femininity or engages her on an emotional level, that's the moment she has the upper hand, can scream "abuse", and shun responsibility for her own role in creating the situation.
1
Why isn't there a reject opinion choice to go along with the recommend?
I do not know where to start except to ask is it not true that you are a boor?
I do not know where to start except to ask is it not true that you are a boor?
2
May you be reincarnated as a woman.
8
Perhaps you might wish to reconsider that your assumptions about women and their alleged advantages are a reflection of social prejudices.
It's also a NYT problem. My gender got a step up when Jill Abramson was promoted to the top job, and then we were taken aback, two steps. She found out she earned a lot less than her male predecessor, and seems some found her not deferential to her male junior's ego, and he got her job and probably contributed to this piece. How much is the man who now has her job paid? Please forgive me if I am less than grateful for your editorial.
10
Sweden gives women 480 days of paid leave after a child is born. So you see, we could do much more by making better policy choices to support families.
https://sweden.se/society/10-things-that-make-sweden-family-friendly/
U.S. policies are ruled by people who bow down to competition for Mamen when they need to show deep respect to their Mama and every other woman in their lives by equal pay in recognition and support for the loving work they do, in all our families which makes society a place of human flourishing instead of a place of human degradation and exploitation which it has become and is becoming for more and more people.
https://sweden.se/society/10-things-that-make-sweden-family-friendly/
U.S. policies are ruled by people who bow down to competition for Mamen when they need to show deep respect to their Mama and every other woman in their lives by equal pay in recognition and support for the loving work they do, in all our families which makes society a place of human flourishing instead of a place of human degradation and exploitation which it has become and is becoming for more and more people.
9
Sexual harassment is wrong period.
Discrimination in the work place is wrong period.
However men and women are treated differently.
Women were not subject to the draft.
Women do not now have to register.
The issue is not whether woman should have the opportunity of combat rules but whether [if there is a draft]that they be required to have a combat role.
Women are punished less severely by the criminal justice system. A male female pair commit several murders. The male is usually sentenced to death; the woman to a long prison term.
Life insurance premiums for men are higher than for women. Presumably this is because women live longer.
That is sex discrimination.
But whites live longer than blacks but the Court struck down allowing insurance companies to charge blacks higher premiums.
The best way to end discrimination in the workplace is to have an expanding economy that provides good jobs for all. Then there would be no need for any type of discrimination.
Discrimination in the work place is wrong period.
However men and women are treated differently.
Women were not subject to the draft.
Women do not now have to register.
The issue is not whether woman should have the opportunity of combat rules but whether [if there is a draft]that they be required to have a combat role.
Women are punished less severely by the criminal justice system. A male female pair commit several murders. The male is usually sentenced to death; the woman to a long prison term.
Life insurance premiums for men are higher than for women. Presumably this is because women live longer.
That is sex discrimination.
But whites live longer than blacks but the Court struck down allowing insurance companies to charge blacks higher premiums.
The best way to end discrimination in the workplace is to have an expanding economy that provides good jobs for all. Then there would be no need for any type of discrimination.
1
I don't think the jail sentence one is true. Women who commit crimes on their own receive as harsh or harsher sentences. women who 'help' killers and adductors and would never think do do such stuff if they were not under the influence of some violent man are prosecuted. Women now receive harsh sentences for being patsies. More women are now in prison than ever before. There are differences between the secession and one is less prone to violence.
3
Women libbers in America should examine the situation with women in Russia, but they can't do that. Russia made the great Woman Hope Hillary Clinton lose the election to the misogynist Donald Trump.
I'm not gonna "mansplain" it. Do your own work.
I'm not gonna "mansplain" it. Do your own work.
3
"Women libbers?"
It is too much work to figure out what you are trying to say here, Aristotle Gluteus Maximus.
4
why does the commentariat throw stones at Trump for being a harasser and give Bill Clinton a pass?
Whatever Trump may or may not have done (we don't really have any evidence other than a locker room type chat -- men do tend to brag) but whatever his sins, they were committed as a private citizen.
Clinton on the other hand committed his philandering and sexual assaults as an office holder -- first as governor of Arkansas then as President. Don't try to fob off Monica Lewinsky as a consenting adult -- the power discrepancy was as great as possible (the most powerful man on the planet, intern) and would have gotten him fired from almost any corporation.
And let us not forget that Bill Clinton lied under oath re his relationship with Lewinsky -- and he settled out court with Paula Jones to the tune of $850k.
Where is the outrage? None apparently among progs. They happily have cheered Bill, supported him twice for president (when knowledge of his philandering was public knowledge) and supported his spouse for president with nary a word of concern for Bill's past behavior or the implications of returning him to the White House.
Whatever Trump may or may not have done (we don't really have any evidence other than a locker room type chat -- men do tend to brag) but whatever his sins, they were committed as a private citizen.
Clinton on the other hand committed his philandering and sexual assaults as an office holder -- first as governor of Arkansas then as President. Don't try to fob off Monica Lewinsky as a consenting adult -- the power discrepancy was as great as possible (the most powerful man on the planet, intern) and would have gotten him fired from almost any corporation.
And let us not forget that Bill Clinton lied under oath re his relationship with Lewinsky -- and he settled out court with Paula Jones to the tune of $850k.
Where is the outrage? None apparently among progs. They happily have cheered Bill, supported him twice for president (when knowledge of his philandering was public knowledge) and supported his spouse for president with nary a word of concern for Bill's past behavior or the implications of returning him to the White House.
11
Bill. Clinton. Was. Not. Running. For. President.
4
Condone Bill Clinton? Not me or millions of other people. Bill's predator escapades, appeased by a lot of men who drove him to his assignations over decades and made it easy as pie for Al Gore to have his election win stolen by thugs and an obviously partisan court that defiled its own ideology. To think they put W in power. I voted for Hillary. Since she graduated validictorian at Yale Law school, she's been maligned and attacked with a ferocity that both women and men should be ashamed of. Give us a break. Bill's past behaviors? 850K? Fox just rewarded Ailes and O-Reilly between them with $65 million. And Trump, forget the very young women he has abused sexually. He uses the courts not to pay his blue-collar male workers.
Maybe because Trump is the president? Maybe because Trump just praised Bill O'Reilly? Let us not forget that Trump lies continually. This is now. This is your president. How many decades back do you want to go? Trump was accused of sexual harassment or racism during most of them.
3
self employment. the only answer.
4
Interesting editorial from the Times Editorial Board, when I recall that way back in 1972 or so when the Times was being pressured by the government because they had NO women working on the editorial side, particularly at the Sunday Magazine section. Gloria Steinem, a professional friend at the time, sent me to see the editor of the magazine section. I was brought to his office to wait for a brief time. While I was there alone, I noticed a photograph on his desk and looked more closely. It was a somewhat sexual photo of a younger Gloria Steinem reclining on a chaise lounge obviously. I had heard that when Gloria was younger, and just starting out she, had posed for some pictures for those romance magazine popular at the time. It filled me with horror that this man would have a semi-sexual or even suggestive photo of a professional colleague on his desk. I doubt that Gloria knew about it but I bet any woman who came into the room felt somehow degraded and offended by the display (sexual harassment by proxy?) And I bet any man that came into the room at that time leered and laughed, thereby degrading Gloria in absentia. I edited an article about sun tan lotion they gave me with diminished interest and was called by a seemingly younger man to say how much they liked me and wanted me to do another. I had moved on and never did it. Later, I heard they (you) hired a black woman for the job, thereby filling two government requests. Times have changed?
It sure didn't help Hillary to be linked to Anthony Weiner.
4
The "optics" of the connection was planted into undecided minds.
2
Steve, Linked how, because she knew him? And that makes her, what, accountable? ...
1
Sexual harassment is caused by men who think that their penises and testicles are weapons of destruction, knives, war clubs, spears, torpedoes, bullets, and the like which they can use whenever they get the urge to.
11
Ahh but it's also the reverse,..
Men who think their privates aren't quite Up to Snuff,..so they have to overcompensate.
Men who think their privates aren't quite Up to Snuff,..so they have to overcompensate.
5
The biggest hurdle, IMO, is the lack of employee advocacy in HR. Women are told to report their abusers/harassers to HR, but that is a fool's errand. HR is not in place to advocate for the wronged employee--it's to protect the company from lawsuits. As shown in the Susan Fowler/Uber case, even when presented with incontrovertible evidence of wrongdoing in the form of computer screen captures, HR ignored the complaint and the harasser was still employed. To me, the harasser should have been fired on the spot. And of course, it didn't happen.
We need a mechanism for sexual misconduct and discrimination whistleblowing modeled after what OSHA has for safety violations on factory floors or construction sites. If a woman can provide evidence of sexual harassment or gender discrimination to that entity, investigators would then drop in to that workplace unannounced to make a determination of whether the claim has merit. If so, the company gets fined, the harasser/abuser gets fired, the woman in question is compensated for the past injury, and the company would have to demonstrate how they plan to roll out remediations to the culture they have allowed to put women at risk.
We need a mechanism for sexual misconduct and discrimination whistleblowing modeled after what OSHA has for safety violations on factory floors or construction sites. If a woman can provide evidence of sexual harassment or gender discrimination to that entity, investigators would then drop in to that workplace unannounced to make a determination of whether the claim has merit. If so, the company gets fined, the harasser/abuser gets fired, the woman in question is compensated for the past injury, and the company would have to demonstrate how they plan to roll out remediations to the culture they have allowed to put women at risk.
35
Funny article, I was expecting a review of FOX News, instead I received a lecture on why women should be paid the same as men.
I was completely ready to say people flirt in different ways, what may be sexual harrasement to you is "strutting my stuff" to me, perhaps I even thought you liked it, or you pretended to like it.
Instead I was told why women make less money. They make less money because society does not view employment equally. Yes, a college educated woman should make more than a sanitation worker, however, try the job, see if you can do it. Same with a jack hammer or piano mover, try the job.
As far as discounting, demeaning and derailing...I haven't done any of that later, most of the women I know are so much better off today than ever before they have no need to complain, ( to be honest most of them are retired or my family members ).
Nothing is as it was, the feminists have ripped the covers off sexual foreplay.
4
I see you weren't confused by the facts.
For example, in this article:
"On average, women today make 22 percent less per hour than men, even after controlling for experience, education and location."
"Across all levels at companies, women are 15 percent less likely than men to be promoted..."
Could you please try to reread this article without emotion?
For example, in this article:
"On average, women today make 22 percent less per hour than men, even after controlling for experience, education and location."
"Across all levels at companies, women are 15 percent less likely than men to be promoted..."
Could you please try to reread this article without emotion?
10
For Luddites, the title of the article should have been a clue, "For women, It's not just the O'Reilly problem." But for Luddites, it's all about the fact that cutesy crude flirting thing they meant was not interpreted by most self respecting women to be anything more than a misogynist's attempt at a flirtation that will always be interpreted negatively and lead to failure on his part. Never having any success with it, as Bill Maher has pointed out O'Reilly doesn't seem to have, should clue the guys in that it's not effective, won't get them what they want and perhaps they prefer living a lonely, clueless life.
Your comment discounts, demeans and derails,
"I thought you liked it" is particularly revealing
"I thought you liked it" is particularly revealing
4
I'm sure that many will claim that these instances are not political in nature. That is a mistake. The abuse of women by people like O'Reilly is an indicator of their values and priorities. Trump is one of these men. They see people who aren't like them as objects to be used or despised, sometimes both. They lack empathy. They are narcissistic. They are incapable of acknowledging a mistake. This is bad in people like O'Reilly. It is extremely dangerous in a person with power like Trump. And don't forget, Trump and O'Reilly defended each other.
22
Max Deitenbeck,
What Mr. O'Reilly and Mr. Ailes, and all before them did is unacceptable. Question for you, did former President Clinton acknowledge his mistake? Just wondering?
What Mr. O'Reilly and Mr. Ailes, and all before them did is unacceptable. Question for you, did former President Clinton acknowledge his mistake? Just wondering?
Guess you hadn't been born yet, or were too young at the time to remember. He apologized over and over again, to his family, to his staff, to the joint chiefs, to the entire leadership of the Democratic Party. It was excruciating, but at least he had enough of a conscience, and enough self-awareness, to realize the magnitude of his error. That's more than anyone can say for Ailes, O'Reilly, and their number-one fan, Trump.
4
There is no mention of Bill Clinton's sexual harassment of women that went on for years. The media did not report this nearly enough probably due to his being a liberal Democrat. Hillary Clinton even went as far as to blame and defame these women who reported this abuse.
Bill O'Reilly was a conservative and an easy target for progressives to attack. They were determined to get him terminated from Fox News and succeeded. I am sure we have not heard the last from Mr. O'Reilly and he will be starting the second phase of his career soon. Many of us look forward to his return in whatever capacity he chooses.
Bill O'Reilly was a conservative and an easy target for progressives to attack. They were determined to get him terminated from Fox News and succeeded. I am sure we have not heard the last from Mr. O'Reilly and he will be starting the second phase of his career soon. Many of us look forward to his return in whatever capacity he chooses.
In 1985 I was told by my boss that I didn't get the promotion that I was the best person for because she'd promoted a male colleague who'd been with the agency for a shorter amount of time. The reason I was given was because our customers would feel more comfortable hearing a "man's" voice on the phone. At that point this guy was known for having temper tantrums in the office. When I asked my boss about this I was told that he was advised to take "anger management" training but that they still felt that HE would be better in a supervisory position.
The only difference really between then and now is that they wouldn't be honest about the "reason" you were passed up for the promotion. You would get a lie instead.
The only difference really between then and now is that they wouldn't be honest about the "reason" you were passed up for the promotion. You would get a lie instead.
32
i hope you walked out and sued them
5
Some people need to eat.
It's all true but it's not the whole story. Left out is that women use their sexual attractiveness in kind, to put themselves over on men for workplace gains they do not merit, and to dominate and pass by other women. Although attractive women suffer the consequences of a male dominated work life in America, less than attractive women suffer too, particularly in hiring, where beauty has the power of a huge lever. It is wrong to portray the problem of bias between genders as one sides affair of men over women, we should drill down to the fundamentals of human psychology, where most issues cut evenly across gender lines.
4
While this is true, it's also part of women feeling they can't get ahead on the basis of merit alone.
On a more everyday level, how many women work full time and also do almost all of the childcare and housework?
13
The problem of sexual harassment is not as one sided as it seems. There are plenty of daily examples in everyones life of women dressing provocatively for attention, for being looked at favorably, etc. The immense popularity of Kardashian circus is mostly among WOMEN. Why would you dress in the skinny sexy outfits we see on TV news and thenclaim shock and outrage when some idiotic bore steps out of line. Why provoke problems. We are not talking about burkas here. How about just not dressing half naked.
Unwanted harassment should cause termination of employment for sure, and should be a part of your record so that other firms know to avoid you, but maybe women can stop acting so innocent when dressing half naked as one can see on Fox News. Maybe everyone can help this situation instead of letting it continue, then making millions in a lawsuit.
Conservative societies like Moslem or Conservative Jewish , Amish and serious Christian societies all know this, and it seems to not be as much of a problem. I am a liberal person, but i can't help but make these observations.
Unwanted harassment should cause termination of employment for sure, and should be a part of your record so that other firms know to avoid you, but maybe women can stop acting so innocent when dressing half naked as one can see on Fox News. Maybe everyone can help this situation instead of letting it continue, then making millions in a lawsuit.
Conservative societies like Moslem or Conservative Jewish , Amish and serious Christian societies all know this, and it seems to not be as much of a problem. I am a liberal person, but i can't help but make these observations.
5
I've wondered the same thing about the way female anchors dress compared to male anchors. I remember some creepy stories (from a friend at CNN) about Ted Turner years ago - he would only hire blonds who looked and dressed a certain way. I'm willing to guess that FOX continues some/most/more of this tradition. I'm also guessing that if the women refused, they'd lose their jobs.
I would much prefer a more equitable dress code - women should look as professional as men.
I would much prefer a more equitable dress code - women should look as professional as men.
1
Women broadcasters at Fox News dress the way they do because management tells them how to dress: management believes "sexy" sells. Hence their preference for younger women as well. Compare their dress to that of other women broadcasters on major news networks, and the difference is quite apparent. Women broadcasters dress professionally.
1
Blame the victim? Do men have no ability to control themselves from any stimulus? All the more reason to promote women.
When women stop seeing themselves as "girls," "moms," "babes" and "ladies," and begin to see themselves as VITAL humans, the gap will remain. People get away with what they are allowed to get away with. Women better toughen up and fight back any way they can.
1
As a woman who worked in broadcast news and left the industry after it took a huge personal toll this article resonates deeply. Women trying to make a career in competitive professions experience death by a thousand cuts. The ones who make it through to the top are remarkably resilient. But it shouldn't just be the tough ones; all have a right to fulfill their potential and contribute to the workforce. Our companies, country and economy will do best when all working people are treated with dignity, respect and fairness.
89
Women just don't get it.
Even women executive or in leading professions.
If men had their knees exposed even women would look at them out of curiosity. When men see women's knees they see more than their knees. They see someone who is not bothered by men looking at their knees or them.
Advice to women: Try wearing a longer skirt that—at least—covers your knees when you are sitting.
You will probably be paid attention to when you speak rather than men being distracted by your body.
Same goes for plunging necklines partially baring one's breasts.
The secret of attraction is in the moral makeup of any person and good works they do—in their personal or professional life.
Remember Mother Theresa?
1
Yes. Resilient as in thick skinned. Women who compete with men for power jobs have to be the best of the best, have a genuine passion for the job ( to make it worth her while) and an athlete's endurance and stamina. And on top of that to be lucky. And she'll still be paid less and vulnerable to a man who wants her job.
4
The answer is simple. Socially conscious Women MUST step up take one-half the power in The United States of America and around the world. Women are doing it right now. Emily's List has 11,000 women interested in running for elected office - up from about 950 last year. New community-based groups, as well as national advocate groups, are forming every day with women in the lead.
Women are speaking out. Women are acting out. Women are supporting other women who speak/act out. Women WILL NOT GO BACK to the 5th/ 15th century or 1950s, as the current male/radical christian hostile takeover artists of OUR governments would have.
Civil lawsuits, rather than corporate payoffs, are another answer. Shed a million watt light on the rampant sexism in America. Young college men seem to think they have a right to rape college women. They do not.
Men need to be blasted with the truth of what their supposed "leaders" and heroes are doing to their mothers, sisters, friends and future partners. The vast majority of young men of today will not stand for it and the world will be better for it.
Women are speaking out. Women are acting out. Women are supporting other women who speak/act out. Women WILL NOT GO BACK to the 5th/ 15th century or 1950s, as the current male/radical christian hostile takeover artists of OUR governments would have.
Civil lawsuits, rather than corporate payoffs, are another answer. Shed a million watt light on the rampant sexism in America. Young college men seem to think they have a right to rape college women. They do not.
Men need to be blasted with the truth of what their supposed "leaders" and heroes are doing to their mothers, sisters, friends and future partners. The vast majority of young men of today will not stand for it and the world will be better for it.
34
It is foolish to deny that there are attitudinal differences between the two sexes that co-evolved with males as the hunters and females as the gatherers.
It is also foolish for one sex to claim superiority over the other, because their specializations are complementary.
It is also foolish for one sex to claim superiority over the other, because their specializations are complementary.
3
When workplace harassment hits the headlines, people often react by asking why victims don't simply stand up for themselves like why didn't they make a fuss, or firmly put their harasser in his or her place? This attitude completely fails to take into account the power dynamics of many workplace harassment scenarios like the vulnerability of many victims and the fear of losing one's job, particularly at a time when employment is scarce and public attitudes towards victims are unsympathetic. Even if some people are able to stand up for themselves in such a scenario, the point is that nobody should have to - these are serious offenses, protected against by law, and they should be treated as such and some people should start going to jail!
The ongoing ubiquity of sexual harassment is on full display in the election of Donald Trump after the release of the tape of him bragging about his own pattern of not just harassment but outright sexual assault on women - with impunity.
The fact that many women voted for him testifies to the truth of an old axiom from Pogo: "We have met the enemy, and it is us." To eradicate the persistent attitudes that encourage abusive treatment of women requires conscious effort by women, men and institutions; and consciousness must be instilled early - in childhood - before negative expectations become normative. A primary reason that misogyny thrives is that young girls - and boys - are taught in childhood that such thinking is normal and not to be challenged.
Later in life, these early lessons become unconscious directives that nourish our cultural tendency to blame the victim. This leaves women feeling shamed, isolated and without recourse.
The fact that many women voted for him testifies to the truth of an old axiom from Pogo: "We have met the enemy, and it is us." To eradicate the persistent attitudes that encourage abusive treatment of women requires conscious effort by women, men and institutions; and consciousness must be instilled early - in childhood - before negative expectations become normative. A primary reason that misogyny thrives is that young girls - and boys - are taught in childhood that such thinking is normal and not to be challenged.
Later in life, these early lessons become unconscious directives that nourish our cultural tendency to blame the victim. This leaves women feeling shamed, isolated and without recourse.
18
About 35 years ago Pat, a 4"10' women and a manager for a corporate client, who was my friend and I knew to be a conservative Republican told me that she had changed her name after being hospitalized for domestic violence for a third time, trying and failing to leave her abusive husband , a cop.
Her abuser knew she would not leave her two small kids; but on her final night at home she parked her car on an incline, so her husband would not be awakened by the sound of a car starting.
At 4 am she bundled her kids, got them into the car, which was hers, released the brake and let it roll down the hill when she started it a few blocks away. She drive through the night to a good sized town where she sold her car for cash and bought bus tickets for NYC over 1000 miles away.
I asked Pat with her experience how she could be a conservative Republican with their anti women approach to just about everything. She said my problem were mine and I risked my life to escape. I was not striking a blow for women, I was fighting for my own freedom. If a woman has a problem and she is not willing to fight and take the risk of failure for her own rights or freedom then she does not want it enough. Pat may have been wrong 35 years ago but in the age of Trump we need an army of Pats willing to take the risk.
Her abuser knew she would not leave her two small kids; but on her final night at home she parked her car on an incline, so her husband would not be awakened by the sound of a car starting.
At 4 am she bundled her kids, got them into the car, which was hers, released the brake and let it roll down the hill when she started it a few blocks away. She drive through the night to a good sized town where she sold her car for cash and bought bus tickets for NYC over 1000 miles away.
I asked Pat with her experience how she could be a conservative Republican with their anti women approach to just about everything. She said my problem were mine and I risked my life to escape. I was not striking a blow for women, I was fighting for my own freedom. If a woman has a problem and she is not willing to fight and take the risk of failure for her own rights or freedom then she does not want it enough. Pat may have been wrong 35 years ago but in the age of Trump we need an army of Pats willing to take the risk.
8
And that's it, huh? There's only one reason women don't succeed or get where they want to be. All of it is their fault and that they weren't willing to fight and take the risk of failure. Wow, I find that astonishing. If only we'd all known that was the secret to success, equal pay and happiness for women to succeed in the work place.
3
The number of American troops killed in Afghanistan and Iraq between 2001 and 2012 was 6,488. The number of American women who were murdered by current or ex male partners during that time was 11,766. That’s nearly double the amount of casualties lost during war.
I am glad Pat was not one of those statistics.
I am glad Pat was not one of those statistics.
4
What about the woman with no car. Or the woman whose husband controls the money, so there can be no NYC bus tickets. The woman who speaks no English, suffers from a disability, is pregnant, has a newborn, has no marketable skills...
Don't blame the victims, I beg you. Failing doesn't mean they "didn't want it badly enough." This doesn't diminish what Pat did. But her success should not be used to belittle other women who may lose their battles.
Don't blame the victims, I beg you. Failing doesn't mean they "didn't want it badly enough." This doesn't diminish what Pat did. But her success should not be used to belittle other women who may lose their battles.
1
There is a lot of comments making the strong argument that there is more of an underlying issue of sexism in general, the long-lasting issue that the male is simply perceived as the dominant power in our society; and that women need to stand up and fight for change, more deeply than just in the workforce but in our culture's way of thinking. Agreed. I think we need to look at how we raise our children, teach our young girls why they don't have to be that sexy babe who is currently posted all over our media. But then, I wonder, why aren't we looking at our young boys? What is our mother, our liberal-minding father telling their son why all these remarks about the over-weight, "ugly" female professional simply wrong and should not continue? I'm sure the young boys in their groups find this kind of talk to be amusing, and there are plenty of reports of sexual abuse in schools to back this up. This is why this kind of behavior continues into the workforce. It should not solely be on the woman to change it - we need to do more to teach our next generation of males to have more respect for the opposite sex. Moms have a lot of power there, but our dads need to step up as well.
17
Longstanding valid and accurate issues must be addressed for women in the workplace. Disparities in pay and promotion, as well as structural impediments — in scheduling and other workplace policies happen to all people who are not white men, and also must be acknowledged and remedied.
It is strange the number of men who would deny women equal pay even though increasing their wife's pay would help their entire family. The main reason being this challenges the established pecking order which puts men above women. If they could get their heads around it equal pay for equal work would lift the entire economy.
14
It's about control too. With more money comes power.
Good luck to Fox and all of global corporate conglomerate media reforming themselves to the bulk of the U.S. and global population that is now overwhelmingly under age 40, female, better education and demanding their rightful place in society with every passing year.
It's infuriating what Baby Boomer females have been forced to endure, as it was with their mothers and grandmothers. Yet, it's instructive - ought be, at least - to all females AND MALES that the worldwide overt and proudly male culture, discrimination, sexism, misogyny, violence and sex trafficking of even little girls remains so prevalent.
It's infuriating what Baby Boomer females have been forced to endure, as it was with their mothers and grandmothers. Yet, it's instructive - ought be, at least - to all females AND MALES that the worldwide overt and proudly male culture, discrimination, sexism, misogyny, violence and sex trafficking of even little girls remains so prevalent.
13
Let's face it. This country is misogynistic and having t-rump as the misogynist in chief will hinder the process of change. We are shameful. Time for women to stand up and be heard. Okay women, the smarter ones, get out there and vote. For women.
18
I agree EXCEPT it's not exclusive to Women Solving the Problem.
NO WAY would Civil/Voting Rights causes succeeded W/O the direct assistance, votes, legislation, marches, of Whites along with minorities.
Similar for suffrage.
NO WAY would Civil/Voting Rights causes succeeded W/O the direct assistance, votes, legislation, marches, of Whites along with minorities.
Similar for suffrage.
5
and yet on the front page if this very paper? rupert murdoch,and sean hannity are listed as key advisors to trump.
13
Ah, the liberal language warriors are at it again. Now he's a sexual abuser, is he? ("Alleged" of course. Don't want one of those pesky defamation lawsuits). Isn't that a defined term under the NY Penal Law? I wonder which one of his lewd comments or masturbation phone calls falls under §130.55? No matter. As we all know, words and definitions are the playground of the left. Why not just go all in and call him what he is: A murderer (allegedly).
The article really isn't about O'Reilly but more about what he represents, and you haven't provided any alternative terms that would suit you. Maybe harassment? The fact that Ailes and O'Reilly were released, with huge payouts, just means that both of them, and Fox, got away with it. An abuse of power, with absolutely no contrition. What is your view of Bill Clinton's "alleged" adventures and, yes, "sexual abuse" in using his position as leverage? Where does "liberal language" fit into that? And don't forget, the "playground of the right" accuses Clinton of murder as well.
4
Again, amanda, what source backs up your claim? Stand and deliver.
1
We're 20 years late on this subject. The country really should have started to focus on this during the sexual harrasssment committed Bill Clinton against Monica Lewisky. It is never okay for a superior to have sex with a subordinate, much less the most powerful man in the world having a sexual relationship with the lowest-rung worker in the White House. If the President doesn't set the right example with his subordinates, why should Bill O'Reilly?
For young people it sends the wrong message. You harass women and get 25 million dollars.
13
Or the other way round even; Listen to someone tell you what they will do to you with a falafel and get a million dollary payout.
And if you demean women on the air you get high ratings.
2
Reminder, look who sits in the Oval Office.
5
It is quite reassuring that The New York Times is above this type of skullduggery. No hanky panky in Mid Town.
Just out of curiosity, what's the composition of the editorial board?
13
7 women,
9 men.
The editor is a man.
The deputy editor is a woman.
details are here: http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/opinion/editorialboard.html
9 men.
The editor is a man.
The deputy editor is a woman.
details are here: http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/opinion/editorialboard.html
2
The only female editor in chief brought the paper back from the brink and into the digital age, learned she earned far less than her predecessor and asked for an increase, was told no and then lost her job when the current editor in chief, with the back-up of some other editors, some of them other women, claimed she was not deferential to the current male editor-chief's most brilliant and masculine ideas, after he'd cozied up to the owner, whispered in his male ear and then threatened to quit over his humiliation over having to accept the authority of woman.
It isn't just numbers. It's salary and respect.
Question: When was 'deferential' a job description for an editor in chief?
Answer: once, when a woman had the job.
It isn't just numbers. It's salary and respect.
Question: When was 'deferential' a job description for an editor in chief?
Answer: once, when a woman had the job.
3
The story of Bill O'Reilly is an old one, going back as far as women have been employed in this country. Given the universality of male bosses making inappropriate sexual comments to employees, through to passing over women for senior positions, there would almost seem to be some flaw in the genetic makeup of men. The males of other species don't abuse the females--they may dominate them, but they don't harm them physically or kill them.
And the contempt that the Bill O'Reilly's have towards women is much too commonplace in America. I have to wonder why psychologists and other mental health care professionals don't put more resources into this widespread and disturbing problem.
This extreme chauvinism costs all American taxpayers, too. The health costs directed towards battered women exceed $5 billion. And while Bill O'Reily himself didn't batter anyone as far as we know, it's his attitude and the attitude of so many American men that leads to physical abuse.
And the contempt that the Bill O'Reilly's have towards women is much too commonplace in America. I have to wonder why psychologists and other mental health care professionals don't put more resources into this widespread and disturbing problem.
This extreme chauvinism costs all American taxpayers, too. The health costs directed towards battered women exceed $5 billion. And while Bill O'Reily himself didn't batter anyone as far as we know, it's his attitude and the attitude of so many American men that leads to physical abuse.
16
There will always be an important role for lawsuits and legislative changes, though lawsuits are often not an option for women who aren’t wealthy, and legislative progress, especially in this conservative and polarized time, is unlikely. Besides, to date, they have only gotten women so far — and there is so much further to go.
I think it is time for the owners/directors of our media outlets including the NYT to put a great deal more of the 4th estate light on this years and years long epidemic of injustice to the people. When women are abused in any of the multitude ways that you mention and many others that you do not like spousal abuse we are all injured. This kind of criminal cruelty damages the Common Good. Women are not separated from humanity. When a woman is maltreated that carries over to to her family, her friends, her children and husbands of significant others. The emotional and mental damage to one's self respect radiates through all of one's actions and actions. Equality is a Human thing in all respects.
It may be hard to go here, but there is no rationality in paying a person based on the kind of labor he/she performs. O'Reilly's labor was not worth more than the labor of the least clerk in that Propaganda corporation.
I think it is time for the owners/directors of our media outlets including the NYT to put a great deal more of the 4th estate light on this years and years long epidemic of injustice to the people. When women are abused in any of the multitude ways that you mention and many others that you do not like spousal abuse we are all injured. This kind of criminal cruelty damages the Common Good. Women are not separated from humanity. When a woman is maltreated that carries over to to her family, her friends, her children and husbands of significant others. The emotional and mental damage to one's self respect radiates through all of one's actions and actions. Equality is a Human thing in all respects.
It may be hard to go here, but there is no rationality in paying a person based on the kind of labor he/she performs. O'Reilly's labor was not worth more than the labor of the least clerk in that Propaganda corporation.
8
The demeaning of the women that led the fight for Women's Voting Rights persists even with their supporters.
They were Suffragists not Suffragettes. The ending ettes is a diminutive and appropriate when minimizing the efforts of those pesky girls.
They were Suffragists not Suffragettes. The ending ettes is a diminutive and appropriate when minimizing the efforts of those pesky girls.
9
It's clear that the problem of unequal treatment of women is culturally and politically ingrained, not just in the US but worldwide. Corrective progress is being made in small steps, a slow and laborious march, but it is coming. Given the deep seated nature of the problem and its numerous manifestations, we should know that there are no quick fixes. Perhaps the growing power of global communications can speed the pace but, regardless, only dedicated, long term commitment plus leadership from courageous individuals willing to risk careers and relationships will get us there. In the meantime, every little bit helps, including articles like this one.
7
It's strange when I look at the picture of the woman sitting at her desk looking weary and concerned, because I'm a man and I'm sure I often sit feeling that way too, only my shoes aren't red.
2
Only your paycheck is most likely larger.
7
Likely not. Most of these pay gap studies don't look at people in the same jobs. They just average across large groups doing different jobs.
1
So you still have the heels and long hair?
2
I am retired, but I fully remember my first sexual harassment encounter when I was in my early 20s working for a small news outlet in New York. My boss and his female lieutenant gently tried to correct me after I rebuffed the obnoxious advances of an executive with whom they were friends. The executive complained to my boss about my lack of manners. I was told I needed to learn how to brush off an unwanted advance with more finesse. I was given some latitude because I was young and unsophisticated. The jerk was an executive at Metromedia, later purchased by Fox.
15
I work at an institute of higher education in NYC, and women are well represented in the faculty, upper administration and HR (100% women). Women are in positions of authority to hire, to fire, to make policy changes yet there are no women of color (or people of color for that matter) at the upper-levels of the organization.
And, to make matters ever more absurd, I have two female deans who vigilantly guard against anti-male bias. Recently the female deans promoted a white male colleague who only met (that is, did not exceed) performance expectations. The kicker - he did not even ask for the promotion! Meanwhile a female colleague who measurably outperformed expectations asked for a raise and was denied by the same deans. People may recall an article published earlier this year in The Atlantic on children's gendered beliefs about intelligence. By age 6 years, girls began to associate brilliance and intelligence with boys, not with their own gender. If this is how 6 year old girls see themselves and see other women, is it indicative of how adult women see each other?
I feel I'm in an alternate universe or a time machine, but this is real folx. I'm a woman of color, and I'm doing what I can, but I have been denied a seat at the power table. The experience is both absurd and painful.
Women in positions of power, let's not be complicit in workplace discrimination that hold us all back. Let's examine our own inherent biases.
And, to make matters ever more absurd, I have two female deans who vigilantly guard against anti-male bias. Recently the female deans promoted a white male colleague who only met (that is, did not exceed) performance expectations. The kicker - he did not even ask for the promotion! Meanwhile a female colleague who measurably outperformed expectations asked for a raise and was denied by the same deans. People may recall an article published earlier this year in The Atlantic on children's gendered beliefs about intelligence. By age 6 years, girls began to associate brilliance and intelligence with boys, not with their own gender. If this is how 6 year old girls see themselves and see other women, is it indicative of how adult women see each other?
I feel I'm in an alternate universe or a time machine, but this is real folx. I'm a woman of color, and I'm doing what I can, but I have been denied a seat at the power table. The experience is both absurd and painful.
Women in positions of power, let's not be complicit in workplace discrimination that hold us all back. Let's examine our own inherent biases.
15
The evidence that O'Reilly's termination was not prompted by the allegations of sexual harassment themselves is clear, because Fox knew about O'Reilly's behavior for many years, and condoned it by hiding it from the public and keeping O'Reilly on the payroll. But what evidence do we have that his demise was brought about by advertiser defections and a drop in stock prices, both of which might very well have been temporary?
Look at Rush Limbaugh. His behavior on and off the air was at least as offensive as O'Reilly's, yet he's still running a profitable show, isn't he? Do the owners/operators of Fox really calculate that their brand needs to appear to support a certain standard of behavior in its public personalities? Where do they draw the line that separates the acceptable from the intolerable? I'm curious to know.
Look at Rush Limbaugh. His behavior on and off the air was at least as offensive as O'Reilly's, yet he's still running a profitable show, isn't he? Do the owners/operators of Fox really calculate that their brand needs to appear to support a certain standard of behavior in its public personalities? Where do they draw the line that separates the acceptable from the intolerable? I'm curious to know.
5
Limbaugh operates in a U.S. right wing talk radio forum, whereas, the Murdochs are running their empire in a global environment and are particularly vulnerable to UK laws regarding corporate conglomerate regulations, M & A, etc... Different kettle of (rotted) fish.
3
The EB is advocating for 2 opposing propositions. One is to pay women based on our abilities. The other is to admit an ever-increasing number of Muslim refugees, whose cultures denigrate women.
The U.S. has admitted many cultures, over its history, which have denigrated women. They have evolved, with the rest of the country, to see women on more of an equal basis as men. Should we assume that Muslim cultures will also evolve this way? If we look at Europe, we see that that Muslims are continuing to practice polygamy. Islamic law allows a man to have up to 4 wives. British newspapers have reported on how polygamy has become widespread. A man will marry his first wife under both religious and civil laws, and then marry succeeding wives under only religious law.
If the Times would look at Somali and other Muslim communities, here in our country, it would find that polygamy is also being practiced here. My neighbor teaches in an elementary school with a high percentage of Somali students. It is not uncommon for there to be 2, 3, or even 4 half siblings in the same grade. They have the same father, but different mothers.
Will Muslim communities evolve in the U.S., and if so, how many generations will it take? Our country needs to reaffirm its stance against polygamy.
The U.S. has admitted many cultures, over its history, which have denigrated women. They have evolved, with the rest of the country, to see women on more of an equal basis as men. Should we assume that Muslim cultures will also evolve this way? If we look at Europe, we see that that Muslims are continuing to practice polygamy. Islamic law allows a man to have up to 4 wives. British newspapers have reported on how polygamy has become widespread. A man will marry his first wife under both religious and civil laws, and then marry succeeding wives under only religious law.
If the Times would look at Somali and other Muslim communities, here in our country, it would find that polygamy is also being practiced here. My neighbor teaches in an elementary school with a high percentage of Somali students. It is not uncommon for there to be 2, 3, or even 4 half siblings in the same grade. They have the same father, but different mothers.
Will Muslim communities evolve in the U.S., and if so, how many generations will it take? Our country needs to reaffirm its stance against polygamy.
6
It is not just FOX but similar headlines emerged in case
of military, politicians and corporate executives. The only
constant is the older powerful white male targeting
women. The deeper problem is the perception of women
as sex object and the mindset of powerful male that
power entitles them to everything including the attractive
women.
of military, politicians and corporate executives. The only
constant is the older powerful white male targeting
women. The deeper problem is the perception of women
as sex object and the mindset of powerful male that
power entitles them to everything including the attractive
women.
8
Gee, I'll suffer an off-color remark for a million dollar payout. I'd recover nicely in Hawaii.
5
Ahh but "Self Inflicted" Verbal will probably get you some therapy and then firing.
And a physical "Self-Inflicted" Encounter will get you some therapy too but via the Prison Psychiatrist.
And a physical "Self-Inflicted" Encounter will get you some therapy too but via the Prison Psychiatrist.
Complicit. While Bill O'Reilly is a horrible human being who did not receive nearly the punishment he should have, these women were complicit. It's not like they didn't have other choices in life. They chose to stay in their jobs because they were getting something out of it, whether it was career advancement, proximity to powerful men, whatever. Because of their political beliefs these women consciously rejected things like equal pay, feminism a women's right to choose in favor of losing their dignity as human beings. This is not to say that left leaning media outlets are any better but that the onus for change in the sexual harassment battle is not only on men. Women who can afford to leave these oppressive environments really need to do a little more soul searching around their personal self worth and be ready to make the hard choices. The data proves that more diverse "progressive" work environments are more competitive and more importantly, more respectful of the worth of individuals.
The problem with this editorial as with all feminist analyses is that this opinion piece is entirely built on the faulty premise that total and complete parity between the sexes in all fields of life is the expected and natural outcome if it weren't for oppressive social structures and discrimination. What should be expected in a sexually dimorphic species such as homo sapiens is that males have better outcomes in some aspects of life while women have better outcomes in other aspects, another thing we should expect based on an evolutionary history of much higher variance in male reproductive success is that men will tend to dominate both at the top and bottom of societies.
And this is precisely what we see, there are far more male CEOs than female but also far more rough sleepers, drug addicts, prisoners, and far more men live without any friends or social network. This is the result of very different evolutionary histories for men and women, as evidenced by DNA showing much higher male reproductive success and the sex difference in muscle mass which is one of the largest in the primate order. That is why we see the same pattern worldwide in every culture known. It's evolurion that is the culprit not arbitrarily social constructs.
And this is precisely what we see, there are far more male CEOs than female but also far more rough sleepers, drug addicts, prisoners, and far more men live without any friends or social network. This is the result of very different evolutionary histories for men and women, as evidenced by DNA showing much higher male reproductive success and the sex difference in muscle mass which is one of the largest in the primate order. That is why we see the same pattern worldwide in every culture known. It's evolurion that is the culprit not arbitrarily social constructs.
10
Bill O'Reilly's behavior is not forgiven by his genes or evolution. He lives in a society that has reasonable expectations of it's prominent people. Not serially molesting or harassing women who work in less powerful positions is one of those expectations, and one that most of the cable news celebrities outside of Fox seem to manage.
If he cannot live up to this small expectation, then he does not deserve a job where he has the opportunity to serially harass women, whether it's at a network or a MacDonalds.
If he cannot live up to this small expectation, then he does not deserve a job where he has the opportunity to serially harass women, whether it's at a network or a MacDonalds.
2
Linda Stockholm" It's evolution that is the culprit not arbitrarily social constructs."
How do you square that with successful matriarchal societies. In many societies, especially BC women had power and equal to or more than men, power they did not appear to abuse unlike the abuse seen in most all patriarchal societies. They were warriors - many consigned to myth, possibly as a control mechanism to oppress. These 'myths' are now being exposed as a historical reality. Many indigenous societies and ancient cultures are matriarchal. History is replete with powerful, intelligent, visionary women across the world in all fields but still to this day women, and in the relatively recent history that is taught, are presented as a specialized subject of study as if an aberration of the norm further shoring up this erroneous and controlled perception of who/what woman is.
Muscles might have evolved but the mind certainly hasn't and it is the mind / thought that is involved in building the perception of an individual, group, or idea that is then 'constructed' as a 'truth' through cultural or social practice.
How do you square that with successful matriarchal societies. In many societies, especially BC women had power and equal to or more than men, power they did not appear to abuse unlike the abuse seen in most all patriarchal societies. They were warriors - many consigned to myth, possibly as a control mechanism to oppress. These 'myths' are now being exposed as a historical reality. Many indigenous societies and ancient cultures are matriarchal. History is replete with powerful, intelligent, visionary women across the world in all fields but still to this day women, and in the relatively recent history that is taught, are presented as a specialized subject of study as if an aberration of the norm further shoring up this erroneous and controlled perception of who/what woman is.
Muscles might have evolved but the mind certainly hasn't and it is the mind / thought that is involved in building the perception of an individual, group, or idea that is then 'constructed' as a 'truth' through cultural or social practice.
4
The problem with your analysis is your biological science ignorance and illiteracy.
Until the discovery of DNA everyone knew who the baby momma was but baby daddy was always in doubt. Matrilineal inheritance and worshipping female deities was the norm. Men made gods in their own image.
The primate apes most closely related to humans by DNA genetic heritage include the matriarchal gentle bonobos and the patriarchal violent chimpanzees. Gorillas troops are gentle patriarchies. An elephant herd is a matriarchy as is a hyena clan. Females are the enduring core a pride of lions.
While there is no primitive Neanderthal DNA in Sub-Saharan Africans about 2-5% lives in European and Asians. There are all female vertebrate species. No man has ever carried nor given birth to a baby no nursed them by their mammary glands.
Every man approaching a woman should imagine how they would react if a man came on to their mother, daughter, sister or aunt in a similar manner.
Until the discovery of DNA everyone knew who the baby momma was but baby daddy was always in doubt. Matrilineal inheritance and worshipping female deities was the norm. Men made gods in their own image.
The primate apes most closely related to humans by DNA genetic heritage include the matriarchal gentle bonobos and the patriarchal violent chimpanzees. Gorillas troops are gentle patriarchies. An elephant herd is a matriarchy as is a hyena clan. Females are the enduring core a pride of lions.
While there is no primitive Neanderthal DNA in Sub-Saharan Africans about 2-5% lives in European and Asians. There are all female vertebrate species. No man has ever carried nor given birth to a baby no nursed them by their mammary glands.
Every man approaching a woman should imagine how they would react if a man came on to their mother, daughter, sister or aunt in a similar manner.
2
Too many Republican women have made a career of being made "powerful" by demeaning other women, all the time. It's bizarre. Hillary Clinton was made immobile by other women enabling a culture of anti-intellectualism, dishonesty, and insecurity about her feminist power. Republican men and women are still wandering in the wilderness, dismantling families and children with twigs and stones. Hillary Clinton's legacy for women and girls across the world is her resolute voice, which will never be silenced. Powerful, progressive, women are here to stay, and kudos to the women at Fox News who came forward, at last. It's not funny anymore. They all have sons and daughters. But most importantly, they have themselves.
38
From my experience (too many Girlfriends and Friends that were Female) it's our society as a whole.
I'm dang near 50 and close to 1/2 the women I've known were: sexually abused, harassed, and/or were in very dysfunctional relationships.
Which makes a LOT of dudes out there with a messed Psychological Profile and what's worse, with such a level,..makes an environment of expectation and acceptance.
BTW, it's ONE issue that's Fully Inclusive, All: Races, Religions, Income Levels, Professions, Ideologies,...
I'm dang near 50 and close to 1/2 the women I've known were: sexually abused, harassed, and/or were in very dysfunctional relationships.
Which makes a LOT of dudes out there with a messed Psychological Profile and what's worse, with such a level,..makes an environment of expectation and acceptance.
BTW, it's ONE issue that's Fully Inclusive, All: Races, Religions, Income Levels, Professions, Ideologies,...
The problems women face in the workplace will stop when the idle male segment, who sees the insults, the harassment, etc - steps up and stops it.
More males are guilty of standing idly by as their more neanderthal male associates do the insulting, then those who are perpetrating the acts. How many males reading this column can think of at least 3 male associates at work that they should have reported to Human Resources, Management, etc...?
But most men are only upset by such actions when it hits home, and the women in their lives, their wives and girlfriends, sisters, tell them they were harassed at work. Plus, how many women don't tell their men at home about the incidents, for fear of arousing their mates suspicions that maybe they brought it on themselves? Wore the wrong outfits, acted too flirty, sent the wrong signals.
If tomorrow, half of the US working male population went to work and did something about at least one of the male harassers, or stepped in when witnessing such behaviors, it would go a long way to helping move the needle in the right direction. A committed effort by the men who claim to be on the side of justice and equal rights, and a harassment free-workplace for everyone, is the only way things truly change. Without draconian laws put in place.
More males are guilty of standing idly by as their more neanderthal male associates do the insulting, then those who are perpetrating the acts. How many males reading this column can think of at least 3 male associates at work that they should have reported to Human Resources, Management, etc...?
But most men are only upset by such actions when it hits home, and the women in their lives, their wives and girlfriends, sisters, tell them they were harassed at work. Plus, how many women don't tell their men at home about the incidents, for fear of arousing their mates suspicions that maybe they brought it on themselves? Wore the wrong outfits, acted too flirty, sent the wrong signals.
If tomorrow, half of the US working male population went to work and did something about at least one of the male harassers, or stepped in when witnessing such behaviors, it would go a long way to helping move the needle in the right direction. A committed effort by the men who claim to be on the side of justice and equal rights, and a harassment free-workplace for everyone, is the only way things truly change. Without draconian laws put in place.
27
Absolutely. And on the other hand, women who are abused also have to come forward. Virtually all the women I know have had some kind of sexual attack directed at them. If they all spoke up, instead of hiding behind their shame, it would become harder and harder for destructive males to justify the narrative that abuse isn't that common, that women report it to get "attention" (what human being wants to be publicly shamed?!), that reporting abuse publicly is easy emotionally and frequently used to manipulate situations, etc. Public sharing of experience is the path to truth and freedom.
Sexual harassment and abuse in the workplace has been around as long as men and women have been in the work force.
There is no excuse for it, but it is not a problem that will be solved in our lifetime, no matter what activists think and what laws the politicians decide to pass.
This needs to be approached much the way that cigarette smoking was removed as a socially inappropriate practice.
I would be willing to bet that NBC, CBS and ABC have the exact same type of sexual predators on their staffs...
And then there are the women, "cougers" if you will, that set their sights on a man...or a woman...in the office and won't stop until they get what they want.
There is no excuse for it, but it is not a problem that will be solved in our lifetime, no matter what activists think and what laws the politicians decide to pass.
This needs to be approached much the way that cigarette smoking was removed as a socially inappropriate practice.
I would be willing to bet that NBC, CBS and ABC have the exact same type of sexual predators on their staffs...
And then there are the women, "cougers" if you will, that set their sights on a man...or a woman...in the office and won't stop until they get what they want.
6
what is sexual harassment; a woman showing cleavage, buttocks?
Addendum:
So how many regular columnists who contribute to the New York Times Opinion Section are female?
I can think of three. Gail Collins (a comedian, very sharp), Maureen Dowd (hates the Clintons, adores fancy lunches, also tries to be a comedian), and Linda Greenhouse (courts).
And how many men are recognized as columnists? Let's try to count the ways.
Frank Bruni. Charles Blow. Nicholas Kristof, David Brooks, Ross Douthat, Roger Cohen, Thomas Friedman, Paul Krugman, David Leonhardt, Andrew Rosenthal.
The Times has never bothered to recruit a committed and non-comedic steady, articulate feminist to contribute, on a regular basis, to its editorials.
Congrats.
So how many regular columnists who contribute to the New York Times Opinion Section are female?
I can think of three. Gail Collins (a comedian, very sharp), Maureen Dowd (hates the Clintons, adores fancy lunches, also tries to be a comedian), and Linda Greenhouse (courts).
And how many men are recognized as columnists? Let's try to count the ways.
Frank Bruni. Charles Blow. Nicholas Kristof, David Brooks, Ross Douthat, Roger Cohen, Thomas Friedman, Paul Krugman, David Leonhardt, Andrew Rosenthal.
The Times has never bothered to recruit a committed and non-comedic steady, articulate feminist to contribute, on a regular basis, to its editorials.
Congrats.
49
The essence of the editorial is correct, our laws should respect and enforce gender equality.
But, at the same time, it only presents half the story.
Men and women who came of age during the 1960’s and 1970’s experienced by far the most consequential form of legislated gender discrimination in our history: the military draft.
Young men, but not women, were required to register with the Selective Service, and were subject to conscription. Hundreds of thousands of men were sent to southeast Asia against their will, and forced to take part in a war they had no role in starting, and often did not believe in. Tens of thousands of draftees were killed, and many more were crippled for life.
Today, there is no military draft, but there is still mandatory registration for the Selective Service, for young men but not for young women. It is time to end this egregious gender disparity, if we are to send the important message that men and women are equal under the law. Or better yet, we should end the Selective Service altogether. It is a an unnecessary expense to taxpayers, and in this age of multiple public and private computer databases that record who we are and where we live, the Selective Service serves no useful purpose.
But, at the same time, it only presents half the story.
Men and women who came of age during the 1960’s and 1970’s experienced by far the most consequential form of legislated gender discrimination in our history: the military draft.
Young men, but not women, were required to register with the Selective Service, and were subject to conscription. Hundreds of thousands of men were sent to southeast Asia against their will, and forced to take part in a war they had no role in starting, and often did not believe in. Tens of thousands of draftees were killed, and many more were crippled for life.
Today, there is no military draft, but there is still mandatory registration for the Selective Service, for young men but not for young women. It is time to end this egregious gender disparity, if we are to send the important message that men and women are equal under the law. Or better yet, we should end the Selective Service altogether. It is a an unnecessary expense to taxpayers, and in this age of multiple public and private computer databases that record who we are and where we live, the Selective Service serves no useful purpose.
6
So, perhaps young males ought begin to take it upon themselves to resist registering for the military, instead of trying to force females into that same coffin. We have had a voluntary military since 1973. Maybe one day males will stop viewing the job of warrior for the employer of last resort as a pivotal notch up the ladder and beneficial to anyone but the corporate military conglomerates of Pentagon Inc.
2
Speak to the ones who are perpetuating the disparity - the male members of Congress. Work to ratify the Equal Rights Amendment.
Do not point at women for not registering when registering is denied to them.
Do not point at women for not registering when registering is denied to them.
5
The complicated fact is that as long as women are the usual caregivers for children (mothers and teachers) this problem will persist. That is, when boys are small, the women around them are authority figures. And then, when they grow up, they spend the rest of their lives trying to topple that authority--and we end up with the society we live in: deeply misogynist. I admit --as a mother of three daughters--I don't know a solution to this. But I do know rage when I see it, and it stems from a primal place. So often I've asked myself, looking this year at Trump, and Fox, and the laws trying to control and repress women, What are they so angry about? Well, there it is. Are there men who respect women? Yes, but most of us know just how far that goes, in both private and public life, and how quickly that can slip. We view these things as separate problems: inequity in the workplace, domestic violence, sex-trafficing, sexual assault, repression of the reproductive rights of women, transgender bias: they're all the same thing.
29
The problem isn't just Oedipal acting out among boys to men, it is that every single society tilts toward sons and rewards females who breed sons. This serves to inherently force all females into a subservient position, the mothers, the childless women, the daughters, etc... from generation to generation. Males love that dynamic. While there are some daddy's girls, the mama's boys are the trophy sons, because society sadly only gives voice and strength and rewards to females who breed males and then serve them unconditionally, at the overt expense of daughters cast aside and taught to also be self-defeated subservient. And transgenderism by the tiny, tiny segment of mostly heterosexual males in society has nothing whatsoever to do with any positive remedy for 3.5 billion females.
6
There is no question that the harassment scandals at Fox News are part of a much larger national malaise. Specifically, Fox's decision to fire O Reilly and his mentor Ailes were purely economic decisions and not based on any ethical standards. The effusive manner in which these two pillars of conservative thought were dispatched suggests that Fox's current attitude to workplace sexual harassment will continue so long as ad revenues and ratings remain high. It is insulting to the impacted women that 75% of the 85 million dollar settlement costs went to the perpetrators. It is amazing that workplace harassment at Fox and other organizations is tolerated despite federal regulations in place for decades. We continue to read reports of campus assaults on women, sexual abuse at elite schools and in sports teams. We gave not been able to put behind us the sexual abuse that occurred at Catholic Churches and scout organizations. We pride ourselves as a nation of laws but in fact the federal regulations are not being enforced. Sad.
12
Out of curiosity with all the attention to FOX News, have there been similar investigations and analogous issues at other major media companies? CNN, MSNBC, Time magazine, the Wall Street Journal, Huffington Post (the list could be endless)? Is this a phenomenon strictly limited to FOX or is there a larger systemic problem that afflicts multiple media outlets as it affects multiple industries? Are there similar yet to be discussed issues at tech companies such as Facebook and google?
The behavior reported is grotesque and inexcusable, and I understand the need for a strong identifiable example so that we're all better aware of sinister impulses.
But before we pass too much judgement shouldn't we all (companies included, they are comprised of people who are fallible like anyone else) take a good hard look in the mirror and ensure that at ALL levels and in every sense of the issue: we are not also complicit or guilty of transgression?
The behavior reported is grotesque and inexcusable, and I understand the need for a strong identifiable example so that we're all better aware of sinister impulses.
But before we pass too much judgement shouldn't we all (companies included, they are comprised of people who are fallible like anyone else) take a good hard look in the mirror and ensure that at ALL levels and in every sense of the issue: we are not also complicit or guilty of transgression?
4
To see the pay disparity in 2017 is disheartening to say the least. Women in publishing in the Boston area fought in the courts for pay and promotion equity in the 1970s. We won, too, more or less. The company I worked for denied wrongdoing but offered hefty lump-sum payouts as well as raises to women employees; it also reviewed and changed the organizational structure. Seeing this article makes me wonder now if the changes were permanent.
4
In Sunday's (April 23, 2017) Philadelphia Inquirer I was reading a letter from a woman who still does not believe that Bill O'Reilly is guilty as charged. He was a victim of powerful people having enemies, she says.
Unfortunately, in our society many men in position of power abuse women but it seems there are many women who may be the bigger enabler of abuse of women than many men.
Unfortunately, in our society many men in position of power abuse women but it seems there are many women who may be the bigger enabler of abuse of women than many men.
11
As they say, can't fix stupid. And we seem to be producing a lot more stupid than we used to.
5
Any well educated American must have learned at least fifteen years ago that Fox is the Evil Empire: immoral; corrupt; and corrupting.
The ex-beauty queens are hired by Fox for their photogenic looks on camera. These women choose to join and support a nefarious enterprise. By the standards of most folks, they are well paid for their participation. In taking money from Fox in return for providing their labour, they are complicit in promoting the aims of Murdoch and his ilk.
Subsequently, the same beauty queens are dismayed to learn that it is not their brains that appeal to their lecherous overlords. They sue. They walk away with more money than most Americans can earn in ten years. Nice work if you can get it.
The ex-beauty queens are hired by Fox for their photogenic looks on camera. These women choose to join and support a nefarious enterprise. By the standards of most folks, they are well paid for their participation. In taking money from Fox in return for providing their labour, they are complicit in promoting the aims of Murdoch and his ilk.
Subsequently, the same beauty queens are dismayed to learn that it is not their brains that appeal to their lecherous overlords. They sue. They walk away with more money than most Americans can earn in ten years. Nice work if you can get it.
There is another interesting question hidden next to the question of equal pay for women. Who gets paid what, and who decides?
In my work experience, when we hire a new member for my team, we all interview them and decide who to hire, but I have no idea who decides what to pay them. Individual contributors are not privy to that privileged information.
I work in a field that has similar numbers of men and women, but the first- and second-level managers are overwhelmingly women. My guess is that this is a diversity issue; there are other professions in the companies I've worked for where the individual contributors and the managers are almost all male, so perhaps they skew the numbers in mine to balance the books overall. I don't know this; no one discloses these things to individual contributors. It's not quite a 'soft' field like human resources, but it's not a 'hard' field like engineering either.
As long as the decisions about compensation are opaque, we can argue over the results without any real knowledge of how it came to be that way. Fix that and the rest will fix itself.
In my work experience, when we hire a new member for my team, we all interview them and decide who to hire, but I have no idea who decides what to pay them. Individual contributors are not privy to that privileged information.
I work in a field that has similar numbers of men and women, but the first- and second-level managers are overwhelmingly women. My guess is that this is a diversity issue; there are other professions in the companies I've worked for where the individual contributors and the managers are almost all male, so perhaps they skew the numbers in mine to balance the books overall. I don't know this; no one discloses these things to individual contributors. It's not quite a 'soft' field like human resources, but it's not a 'hard' field like engineering either.
As long as the decisions about compensation are opaque, we can argue over the results without any real knowledge of how it came to be that way. Fix that and the rest will fix itself.
In 1974, about 10 of us filed a class action lawsuit against our company, then as disgraceful as Fox right down to the Ailes and O'Reilly types. Our
"O'Reilly" was in charge of hiring, and had made a career of sexually harassing women as a condition of employment. In order to make the "O'Reilly" subpoena-proof, the company transferred him to Asia, though the company had never done business in Asia. In response to the suit, which eventually included women from every department, the company filed an affirmation action plan with the court. As at Fox, the enablers were left in place, though the guy in Asia was never brought back. Still, the affirmative action plan was adhered to by the company, and women were hired for jobs they'd never occupied before. In about 5 to 7 years, there was roughly an equal number of men and women at every level and within 20 years, women had the two top jobs. The success of the suit owed much to the fact that there was a union in place to keep the salaries equivalent at the low and mid-levels--but not at the highest levels, where the union had no reach. The challenge now for women at Fox and other companies is for women to step up and file both sexual discrimination and sexual harassment class action lawsuits and not retreat until there is a plan in place to remedy the disparities and inequalities that still exist. If wishing were having, I would want proof of company sincerity with guarantees that enabling behavior was punishable by firing.
"O'Reilly" was in charge of hiring, and had made a career of sexually harassing women as a condition of employment. In order to make the "O'Reilly" subpoena-proof, the company transferred him to Asia, though the company had never done business in Asia. In response to the suit, which eventually included women from every department, the company filed an affirmation action plan with the court. As at Fox, the enablers were left in place, though the guy in Asia was never brought back. Still, the affirmative action plan was adhered to by the company, and women were hired for jobs they'd never occupied before. In about 5 to 7 years, there was roughly an equal number of men and women at every level and within 20 years, women had the two top jobs. The success of the suit owed much to the fact that there was a union in place to keep the salaries equivalent at the low and mid-levels--but not at the highest levels, where the union had no reach. The challenge now for women at Fox and other companies is for women to step up and file both sexual discrimination and sexual harassment class action lawsuits and not retreat until there is a plan in place to remedy the disparities and inequalities that still exist. If wishing were having, I would want proof of company sincerity with guarantees that enabling behavior was punishable by firing.
9
Pretty sure most class action suits have been outlawed by you guessed it, white men in power.
3
I hope that Fox is an outlier where the corporate culture and treatment of women is an anomaly and does not represent the norm.
Unfortunately, even if that's the case, the systemic problems that this article describes will never be fixed by this congress or this administration, or likely even addressed. And we cannot count on employers to do it on their own.
The only way this will change and the rights of women and others will be promoted and protected is through continuous and effective action designed to change the cultural and political landscape in which we live every day.
Unfortunately, even if that's the case, the systemic problems that this article describes will never be fixed by this congress or this administration, or likely even addressed. And we cannot count on employers to do it on their own.
The only way this will change and the rights of women and others will be promoted and protected is through continuous and effective action designed to change the cultural and political landscape in which we live every day.
2
Absolutely no change will take place on in the understanding and social and criminal prosecution of sexual abuse and harassment until one thing happens. That one thing is a shift of blame from the victims to the perpetrators. Until our society gets itself untied from the tangled knot that it has created by this backward thought, no progress will be possible on this issue. The belief that in cases of abuse and harassment, the victim has participated willing or not fought back hard enough has been fiercely protected by perpetrators of all sexes, creeds, colours, etc. Their reasoning may differ but the result is the same. Ailes and O'Reilly no doubt feel perfectly innocent in their own minds for just this reason. And so it will be until blaming the victim, which is especially easy in cases that involve women and anything remotely sexual given our western civilization's Puritanical Christian foundation, gives way to a more humane understanding of this horrifying behavior.
4
It's not just an abusive coworker, its capitalism.
Capitalism is the system that prioritizes monetary over ethical value If a person generates revenue, their unprofessional and ethical misdeeds will be absorbed by the system as an opportunity cost.
Because capitalism is a cultural myth, abusive and aggressive behavior have been mythologized as the natural tendencies of successful people. Studies have shown that "Type A" personalities are often irrational and problematic in their decision making.
Capitalism is the system that prioritizes monetary over ethical value If a person generates revenue, their unprofessional and ethical misdeeds will be absorbed by the system as an opportunity cost.
Because capitalism is a cultural myth, abusive and aggressive behavior have been mythologized as the natural tendencies of successful people. Studies have shown that "Type A" personalities are often irrational and problematic in their decision making.
7
The problem is that men, who control most of the power, really don't believe what women are telling them. When the subject comes up, a man frequently says "well, women make things up". Even when they themselves have never engaged in harassment, they have turned a blind eye to what other men are doing and to what women are experiencing. To believe that "women make things up" (I keep putting that in quotes because I've had men say exactly those words) requires them also to believe that women not only lie but are willing to suffer public humiliation as a result of doing so.
10
@Ian Maitland
According to you, "Women still disproportionately make the choice to let their family shape their career." Okay, we should refrain from making that "choice. We'll just refuse to make that choice in favor making as much money as you do. Please give us your estimate of how many years of women refusing to bear and nurture children will it take before there are no children.
According to you, "Women still disproportionately make the choice to let their family shape their career." Okay, we should refrain from making that "choice. We'll just refuse to make that choice in favor making as much money as you do. Please give us your estimate of how many years of women refusing to bear and nurture children will it take before there are no children.
8
Pure fake news for the most part.
1) The evidence cited for the gender gap is bunk. If you look at compensation studies conducted by pros, where people are matched on exact job responsibilities (not just title), size of company, scope of responsibility, geography, industry, etc. -- gender gap does not exist. AND -- if the Times knew anything about analysis, you would know the way to determine if a variable contributes significantly to outcomes is through multivariate regression with the variable at issue entered last after the effect of other relevant variables have been determined.
2) McKinsey is a consulting firm specializing in HR. Their research is designed to generate business. There are many factors in determining who gets promoted -- and gender might play a role -- but the McKinsey study really doesn't get at gender discrimination.
3) Sexual harassment happens in the workplace and those who commit that sin should be punished. But in all the years I spent in school and the workplace working for and with and managing lots of people, I only met one male who was clearly a harasser. Conversely, I met lots of women who used their sex appeal. Relationships happen at work. Often they involve a more senior male and a younger attractive female. Is that harassment or human nature?
4) Fox paid more to O'Reilly and Ailes to buy out their contracts. The women who alleged harassment settled possible legal action. Apples and oranges.
1) The evidence cited for the gender gap is bunk. If you look at compensation studies conducted by pros, where people are matched on exact job responsibilities (not just title), size of company, scope of responsibility, geography, industry, etc. -- gender gap does not exist. AND -- if the Times knew anything about analysis, you would know the way to determine if a variable contributes significantly to outcomes is through multivariate regression with the variable at issue entered last after the effect of other relevant variables have been determined.
2) McKinsey is a consulting firm specializing in HR. Their research is designed to generate business. There are many factors in determining who gets promoted -- and gender might play a role -- but the McKinsey study really doesn't get at gender discrimination.
3) Sexual harassment happens in the workplace and those who commit that sin should be punished. But in all the years I spent in school and the workplace working for and with and managing lots of people, I only met one male who was clearly a harasser. Conversely, I met lots of women who used their sex appeal. Relationships happen at work. Often they involve a more senior male and a younger attractive female. Is that harassment or human nature?
4) Fox paid more to O'Reilly and Ailes to buy out their contracts. The women who alleged harassment settled possible legal action. Apples and oranges.
7
Are women with the same education and experience paid less than equivalent men? This is never clear.
Because the women who settled their cases can't talk were their careers threaten by Ailes and O'Reilly if they did not put up with them? This is not clear in most of the coverage of this story. Boorish behavior seemed rampant at Fox was there more?
Because the women who settled their cases can't talk were their careers threaten by Ailes and O'Reilly if they did not put up with them? This is not clear in most of the coverage of this story. Boorish behavior seemed rampant at Fox was there more?
2
Yes, women with the same skills are paid less and they are passed over for promotions even when they are better than the white man who gets the position.
I can tell you about a big and famous law firm in the late 80s who now had female attorneys and were allowing some to become partners. One of those women found out that for a man with whom she had equal experience and a better education was making a whole lot more money than she was. She filed a lawsuit and was paid millions. That still goes on. There are definitely women in the work place, professionals, who make deals with the firms and companies by whom they're employed that have to do with more time off so they can be wives and mothers. That is entirely different. They make the deal tailored to being able to have those other advantages. What a lot of men in this discussion today don't seem to understand is women are not asking for better than. They can cut their deals for a lesser share of the pie and be perfectly content. It's the women who sacrifice a lot of their personal lives for the job the same as men and don't get the same pay that's a bother. And it happens all to often.
Evil triumphs when good people do nothing. In this Nation good people have been shirking their duty to vote and contribute to their governing far too long.
t rump was not elected by a majority of white, college educated women, as many comments here suggest.
He was elected by the 46% of voters who stayed home.
He was elected by the pundits who have kept suggesting these many years that both parties are the same and all politicians are lying crooks.
He was elected by an apathetic Nation that seem to have given up hope for a decent future for themselves and their children.
Voters can unelect every single politician who stands in the way of women's rights, children's rights, gay/lesbian rights, the right to a good job, the right to a habitable planet in the future.
t rump was not elected by a majority of white, college educated women, as many comments here suggest.
He was elected by the 46% of voters who stayed home.
He was elected by the pundits who have kept suggesting these many years that both parties are the same and all politicians are lying crooks.
He was elected by an apathetic Nation that seem to have given up hope for a decent future for themselves and their children.
Voters can unelect every single politician who stands in the way of women's rights, children's rights, gay/lesbian rights, the right to a good job, the right to a habitable planet in the future.
12
The problem is much bigger than most people realize. Proof positive: O'Reilly was able to get away with his attacks on women for many years, although the consciousness and understanding of women's rights has never been stronger.
11
After the election, I discovered my parents had "held their noses" and voted for Trump. Why? Because nasty Hillary was a dirty, scheming, ambitious liar. And they were "conservatives". They would never vote for a Democrat. These are the people who heard me vent and gnash my teeth over the years about the relentless sexism I've encountered in my career as an engineer in the biotech industry.
They know that I've had to run a gauntlet of jerks and groupers since high school. I told them I was devastated by the election of a man who embodied the absolutely worst traits of my male bosses. I wanted a better world for my daughter. It felt like a betrayal. It felt like they'd chosen their political tribe over their own family.
The response? We're sorry that you hate men so much, and are now teaching your daughter to hate. We raised you as a Christian but you've rejected our values. How dare you insult us - we're godly, patriotic people who are fighting for the soul of America!
This response led me to understand how so many of our culture's ills - including misogyny and systemic racism - truly aren't seen as such. They are pillars of what a lot of people on the Right consider "American culture". And by confronting and calling out the behavior and its impacts, you are really attacking a worldview.
My parents supported me emotionally when I suffered sexism in the workplace, but in the end, they could not tolerate my challenge to their worldview.
They know that I've had to run a gauntlet of jerks and groupers since high school. I told them I was devastated by the election of a man who embodied the absolutely worst traits of my male bosses. I wanted a better world for my daughter. It felt like a betrayal. It felt like they'd chosen their political tribe over their own family.
The response? We're sorry that you hate men so much, and are now teaching your daughter to hate. We raised you as a Christian but you've rejected our values. How dare you insult us - we're godly, patriotic people who are fighting for the soul of America!
This response led me to understand how so many of our culture's ills - including misogyny and systemic racism - truly aren't seen as such. They are pillars of what a lot of people on the Right consider "American culture". And by confronting and calling out the behavior and its impacts, you are really attacking a worldview.
My parents supported me emotionally when I suffered sexism in the workplace, but in the end, they could not tolerate my challenge to their worldview.
15
We will not be able to get to a truer level of equality unless and until our society can provide (ideally) on site child care. Much of the pay discrepancy that exists is created during the child rearing years when the burden of the work is carried out without pay and without credit and without anything for their Social Security in old age -- by WOMEN! Those years when you don't get paid put you behind the eight ball for the rest of your life.
5
It's regrettable that no mention was made of the sexual harassment and sexual abuse that is so rampant in all branches of the American military. The problem continues with very little, to nothing being done about it. Leadership acknowledges that the problem exists. Studies are conducted, hearings are held and lip service is paid to the problem. Yet the problem persists. Why is this? Is it because the military is so male dominant? Boys will be boys and men will be men. Get past this mentality, and maybe something can be accomplished, but don't hold your breath.
5
White women elected Donald Trump. White women organized the march on Washington (I walked it in Vancouver). Since those events I've had chance meetings with women in their 6th, 7th and 8th decades in the US and Canada. They feel good about the Women's March. Yet nothing will change unless women, of every stripe, continue their march. Every week, every day, bang the drum slowly, deliberately, constantly, ferociously. And don't look to men to help you. You have some momentum - don't waste it. Remember, the whole world is watching, and if you don't follow up, if you let it go, you are complicit in the perpetuation of all the ills dealt to women of which you complain. You have endless power - push aside your fear and assert. Yes, the whole world is watching, much of it hoping you will fail. Go for it. When you win, I hope in my lifetime, they'll get used to it.
2
When a mother told her teenage daughter that all boys want is sex, she was not only addressing a genetic verity, but also the greatest unspoken reason behind the disparity in the incomes of men and women. Not only is the male sex drive overarching, it also tends to separate men into winners and losers. "Loser" is a term commonly employed by women to describe undesirable men. "Alphas and omegas" are often used to describe men; because, like other primates, it's the alpha males who gets the females.
I once met a beautiful, insightful, and cynical woman who said that she would be surprised if any wealthy man would ever get married, because otherwise he could have all the beautiful women he could handle, which is all men really want anyway. But this is not just cynicism. As Henry Kissinger (the horny hamster) once said "power is the greatest aphrodisiac." Similarly, men do not "get more handsome" as they age, they get more powerful.
It doesn't take a young man long to learn that the secret to sexual success is not his unalterable appearance, but wealth and power, which can often obtained with enough drive. It is this huge difference in motivation towards wealth and power which underlies the unexplained difference in the earning power of men and women.
I once met a beautiful, insightful, and cynical woman who said that she would be surprised if any wealthy man would ever get married, because otherwise he could have all the beautiful women he could handle, which is all men really want anyway. But this is not just cynicism. As Henry Kissinger (the horny hamster) once said "power is the greatest aphrodisiac." Similarly, men do not "get more handsome" as they age, they get more powerful.
It doesn't take a young man long to learn that the secret to sexual success is not his unalterable appearance, but wealth and power, which can often obtained with enough drive. It is this huge difference in motivation towards wealth and power which underlies the unexplained difference in the earning power of men and women.
Why do nearly half our women vote to remain second class citizens?
Or support the advertisers at Fox News? In the rural South and Midwest it is well over 50% and in the right wing fundamentalist Christian communities - particularly those in Idaho, Utah, and Arizona the figure is nearly 80 %. Why is that?
Even so, men must also do a better job of protecting all of us from the abuse of predators.
Or support the advertisers at Fox News? In the rural South and Midwest it is well over 50% and in the right wing fundamentalist Christian communities - particularly those in Idaho, Utah, and Arizona the figure is nearly 80 %. Why is that?
Even so, men must also do a better job of protecting all of us from the abuse of predators.
2
I don't know a single woman who voted for Donald Trump. How could they? He was proud of being a bad father, a serial philanderer, a sexist, chauvinist pig and he didn't care for women's reproductive rights and health care. More than that, he regurgitated tasteless jokes and retweeted the most odious "jokes."
The status of women improved under Obama. In the succeeding "Vulgar Era" the best we can hope for is not to retreat so far we lose sight of the goal.
The status of women improved under Obama. In the succeeding "Vulgar Era" the best we can hope for is not to retreat so far we lose sight of the goal.
4
I recently met a woman through business who, I thought, had the potential to become a good friend. We have so much in common, similar work ethics, similar senses of humor.
She is more well-to-do than I and works at a sort of "ladies who lunch" job with lots of free time for spa treatments and the like. I do not and in fact would love to run my side business full time but am afraid to quit my salaried job due to the jeopardy the ACA is in. She has a wealthy husband to fall back on.
Recently at lunch she giggled and said "I am not really a Trump supporter but I just can't stand Hilary so I couldn't vote for HER."
Scratch that potential friendship. Basically this woman and so many others voted against HRC due to a personal distaste and little knowledge of policy. They couldn't or didn't compute that by doing so they were jeopardizing the health, welfare and safety of people like me whom they consider friends and peers.
Until we have a populace that can vote with its brain instead of its gut, we are pretty well doomed. I expect it to get only worse in what's left of my lifetime.
She is more well-to-do than I and works at a sort of "ladies who lunch" job with lots of free time for spa treatments and the like. I do not and in fact would love to run my side business full time but am afraid to quit my salaried job due to the jeopardy the ACA is in. She has a wealthy husband to fall back on.
Recently at lunch she giggled and said "I am not really a Trump supporter but I just can't stand Hilary so I couldn't vote for HER."
Scratch that potential friendship. Basically this woman and so many others voted against HRC due to a personal distaste and little knowledge of policy. They couldn't or didn't compute that by doing so they were jeopardizing the health, welfare and safety of people like me whom they consider friends and peers.
Until we have a populace that can vote with its brain instead of its gut, we are pretty well doomed. I expect it to get only worse in what's left of my lifetime.
5
The only way to really stop sex discrimination and harassment is to stop settling out of court for money. Stop with the money and take them to court for all to see. Those huge companies could care less about the checks they issue.
BTW.... Fox is is guilty but so are the other big media companies . They are just easier to pick on at this point in time.
BTW.... Fox is is guilty but so are the other big media companies . They are just easier to pick on at this point in time.
4
The gender discrimination practices outlined here have been prevalent for ages. Last year, Fox News fired Roger Ailes because of his sexual predations. Donald Trump promptly brought him on board as a principal adviser. Trump after securing the GOP presidential nomination hired the unabashed misogynist Steve Bannon as his campaign czar.
Fifty percent of white American women went to the polls and voted for Trump. Women's votes played a large role in electing other Republicans, helping to give them control of Congress and most of our state governments.
And women cannot figure out why sexual harassment and pay discrimination persist? Sorry, ladies. You can't have your cake and eat it,too. You lie down with dogs, you wake up with fleas. Quit whining and see to the election of a Democratic Congress in 2018. Then come talk.
Fifty percent of white American women went to the polls and voted for Trump. Women's votes played a large role in electing other Republicans, helping to give them control of Congress and most of our state governments.
And women cannot figure out why sexual harassment and pay discrimination persist? Sorry, ladies. You can't have your cake and eat it,too. You lie down with dogs, you wake up with fleas. Quit whining and see to the election of a Democratic Congress in 2018. Then come talk.
Most white women voted for Trump. People who want change need to put their votes where there mouths are. These things will continue to happen as long as perpetrators can get away with it. Individual victims are not generally in a position to effect the needed changes, and pay too much of a price standing up on behalf of everyone else. The majority of white women voted for a sexual predator, so now I frankly don't want to hear about it.
2
oreilly really had to go because we have trump. if we have him (trump) then we cant have oreilly as well. its that simple. its just too much to handle in the public winds. mr. bill would have continued on had hillary won. he would probably have gotten more advertisers not less. this is our world pretending we just cant take it anymore. it is pretense. because our dear leader will never pay for what he did. so oreilly must. thanks for the balancing act foxxy news. you are a great muse and thank you thinking strategists who dominate news conversation. saying the same thing over and over. well paid for nothing and understanding nothing. even the women who feel it wont say it because the men will laugh at them and they want to be taken seriously. so they pretend to see what only men see. its alternative objectivity making its debut this week. as it will next time something about trump bothers us into action to do the right thing. i think the french call it farce. the brithish call it theater and we call it whats in the news.
6
Once a sexual predator, always a sexual predator. This is a corporate culture established by Rupert "Page 3" Murdoch and Roger Ailes, champions of sexual assault boaster Trump. The misogyny the election brought out was a reminder of the inequality faced by women. But st least the Fox women were able to get a small measure of justice and expose the sick, ugly and disgusting culture of Fox.
Millions of women turned out to protest Trump's election. He and the Republicans in Congress ignore half the population and half the voters at their peril. Their unrelenting attacks on women's healthcare and equal rights are noted.
One of the saddest actions of Trump's first hundred days was his killing of the Lily Ledbetter Fair Pay and Civil Rights Act. The 2018 elections are coming. No woman should vote Republican, and every woman and man, every parent and grandparent of daughters and granddaughters who believe in fair pay and equal rights must vote.
Millions of women turned out to protest Trump's election. He and the Republicans in Congress ignore half the population and half the voters at their peril. Their unrelenting attacks on women's healthcare and equal rights are noted.
One of the saddest actions of Trump's first hundred days was his killing of the Lily Ledbetter Fair Pay and Civil Rights Act. The 2018 elections are coming. No woman should vote Republican, and every woman and man, every parent and grandparent of daughters and granddaughters who believe in fair pay and equal rights must vote.
6
When did 'sexual abuse' (which is physical) happen? I've not read that anywhere. It's 'harassment'. Why mislead?
2
What women must put up with at work in order to pay for food to eat and rent to live. Yes, women too enjoy eating and living within 4 walls and a roof over their heads.
6
The toxic culture still exist at Fox, until that is gone this problem will happen again and again. Yes a union is needed and the elder Murdock needs the boot and so does Bill Shine.
2
I'm picturing my recently deceased father-in-law from Iowa, a mid-western traditional Republican who became more and more strident with the emergence of Fox news, which was turned on in his living room daily until he died at 87. Yet he was loving, open to discussions, and reasonable, especially with our daughter who challenged his ideas. Would he for a moment have tolerated his beautiful grand daughter to be treated as Bill Reilly treated these women? Not for minute. Bringing this treatment of women home to those to don't understand or who dismiss it may -- be the most effective way to use these moments to reshape opinions.
67
Yet, he tolerated and daily enjoyed someone else's daughter being treated that way. This is the soul-crushing delusion many females build around themselves in order to not have to make hard decisions and confront reality. Far too many, if not most, women tell themselves that the demeaning sexism, violence against girls and women, the gratuitous sexual leering is always done by someone else's father, son, brother, husband.
It isn't.
It isn't.
2
How did you feel about Bill Clinton?
3
Maybe women need a union. The Women Worker's Union - promoting equal pay and equality.
107
Convincing working Americans that Unions are their enemy has been the most dangerous and pervasive problem keeping America from being Great Again. Worker income is what needs to be spent to keep industry moving and as Union membership dropped so too has American's income. The same amount of money is flowing around but now is funneled into fewer and fewer hands. Just as genital grabbing simplistic thinking inexperienced administrators that refuse to pay their workers were selected by the public to raise respect for moral decision making and to renegotiate agreements that took decades to fine tune so too did the public decide organizations that promote higher wages, safer working conditions and better benefits should be wiped out so the bosses and company owners can decide what's fair to provide workers. What all this proves is that our school systems fail to teach logical or linear thinking and allow the corporations printing history and government and economics textbooks to filter what is printed.
2
Sorry, but O’Reilly wasn’t let go for his behavior toward women, not directly. He was let go because what he would have cost them in lawsuits. While related, they are by no means the same thing. And let’s not ignore that Murdoch supported Trump, who also engages in widely witnessed sexist behavior, if not assault. And he’s President? That’s beyond sick for women; it’s entrenched danger.
After seeing how this country treated Hillary Clinton -- from wearing pantsuits to blaming her for her husband’s behavior, from the commonly accepted code of “just don’t like her” -- this editorial is far too weak. Glad to see it - but give me Steinem instead.
After seeing how this country treated Hillary Clinton -- from wearing pantsuits to blaming her for her husband’s behavior, from the commonly accepted code of “just don’t like her” -- this editorial is far too weak. Glad to see it - but give me Steinem instead.
152
I'm one of those who "just didn't like HC". She was elitist, aligned with and supported by corporatists, represented a continuation of the status quo, and would have been the second member of a family dynasty elected President. We had that with Bush I and II. It's not healthy for a democracy.
I want to vote for a woman because she is qualified and good for the country. Not because she is a woman.
I want to vote for a woman because she is qualified and good for the country. Not because she is a woman.
As a woman railroad brakeman for 16 years, I made as much as my coworkers due to being a member of a union. I would never have been hired to begin with if not for the company having a contract with Amtrak. Yes, affirmative action, something which puts the hackles up on many folks. But here's the thing: I was stronger, more eager, and more reliable than many of my coworkers. I earned every dollar I was paid. I had absolutely no support from management concerning my years of sexual harassment [and, boy, could I tell stories!] but I took home the same hourly wage as all the good o' boys. It afforded me enough money to buy 11 acres of land and build a house on it with my own two hands.
227
Good for you. As for 'affirmative action' I know some hackles do rise, but I see nothing wrong with it and everything right with it. White men in particular receive affirmative action as a birthright, the inheritance of generations of social constructs and beliefs that favor them above all others.
Legally imposed affirmative action levels this extremely inequitable playing field for everyone who does not inherit it be it through being born the 'wrong' color, gender, ethnicity etc. i.e billions of people. I can think of nothing better for the well-being of society, culture, the future, than for everyone to be a part of it and allow them (even if it takes a law to insist on it) to offer their best towards their own future and the future of our species.
Legally imposed affirmative action levels this extremely inequitable playing field for everyone who does not inherit it be it through being born the 'wrong' color, gender, ethnicity etc. i.e billions of people. I can think of nothing better for the well-being of society, culture, the future, than for everyone to be a part of it and allow them (even if it takes a law to insist on it) to offer their best towards their own future and the future of our species.
1
This comment shows how tough women can really be. I admire you.
2
NYT Editorial Drones, please publish demographics and salaries of your employees. I bet your "white men" make more money than the rest of the staff. Hippocrates!
The problem is bigger than FOX news it is a societal problem .......
No sex education ,no ethical standards for television, kids think sex is very day event , you can't turn on evening shows without watching people getting undress .............certainly not like tv in the fifties and sixties . The main problem is men are in charge and women are afraid they will lose their paycheck . Even women Senators are afraid to report.
Just a few hours after Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand (D-NY) went public with accounts of sexual harassment from her fellow lawmakers, male reporters question her credibility.
Politico’s senior congressional reporter, John Bresnahan, posted “I challenge this story. called it “moronic.”
New York Times’ Nick Confessore and Politico’s Alex Burns, have gone after Gillibrand for telling the truth, but not the whole truth.
“Shouldn’t Gillbrand name these Senate guys who fat-shamed her? Doesn’t she kind of have a responsibility to name them?” Confessore tweeted.
Current military leadership(particularly Army) maintains a control over sexual assault programs by assigning enlisted (E-7's) to positions (SACR) of authority over programs where many officers can inject and control the entire process. These E-7 SACR are also have authority over many victim advocates and SACR civilians GS-9-13. Military commanders (99%male)
, the rapist’s commander, not a legally trained prosecutor, has the power to decide if the case goes to trial. Men/women protect each other
22
I agree wholeheartedly it's a Societal Issue. However I don't agree it's because of Education, TV,...
Here's why, very prominent, educated, "Well Raised",..folks have been some of our most famous perps.
Not to mention this has been going on since the advent of time, before TV, Sex in TV,...
Inspite of progress, laws, and I believe personally better attitudes, mechanisms in place (than in the past),..there's just a pervasive "Attitude" that women are subservient to its Male Masters.
I'll leave you with this, there's a reason our POTUS was allowed to get away (% wise) with claiming it's just "Locker Room Talk".
I've been a ton of locker rooms (football, basketball, track, and baseball),..and the ONLY folks I heard talking like that should've been in Prison Rooms; which more than a few of them ended up being in,..later on in life.
Here's why, very prominent, educated, "Well Raised",..folks have been some of our most famous perps.
Not to mention this has been going on since the advent of time, before TV, Sex in TV,...
Inspite of progress, laws, and I believe personally better attitudes, mechanisms in place (than in the past),..there's just a pervasive "Attitude" that women are subservient to its Male Masters.
I'll leave you with this, there's a reason our POTUS was allowed to get away (% wise) with claiming it's just "Locker Room Talk".
I've been a ton of locker rooms (football, basketball, track, and baseball),..and the ONLY folks I heard talking like that should've been in Prison Rooms; which more than a few of them ended up being in,..later on in life.
3
The NYT is hypocritical and water is wet. Look at the permanent columnists on the Op Ed page. Only Gail Collins and Maureen Dowd. They're both more or less humorists. They don't take on heavy lifting subjects like foreign policy. Economic policy. No, they write about personalities. And Dowd rarely appears anymore. The "profound" guys dominate: Krugman, Brooks, Blow, Friedman, Douthat, Cohen. The NYT has the gall to lecture the world at large and it can't even find a way to balance the male female columnists on this page. (I wonder if Gail makes as much as Tom.) And I hear they just hired another guy away from the WSJ. Keep lecturing the world. It's just white noise.
49
I am now middle aged. Going all the way back to my entry into the workforce in other careers before medicine what has also persisted is that women are called bitches when men are called good bosses. We are judged harshly. We are held to impossible standards. We are supposed to be 'ladylike', good mothers and great at our jobs. If we are straight forward we are accused of being unprofessional. I have never heard these insults hurled at men.
Even dominion over our own bodies is somehow considered fair game. No where is there a fight in public over what men can do with theirs, but somehow what women can or cannot do is considered public domain. What access we have to healthcare absolutely affects our choices in life and the progress we can make. All the responsibility of children and the home falls on our shoulders quite unfairly without compensation.
We as a society have to change this neanderthal approach to how we treat women. I am appalled that in my lifetime things have gone backwards.
Even dominion over our own bodies is somehow considered fair game. No where is there a fight in public over what men can do with theirs, but somehow what women can or cannot do is considered public domain. What access we have to healthcare absolutely affects our choices in life and the progress we can make. All the responsibility of children and the home falls on our shoulders quite unfairly without compensation.
We as a society have to change this neanderthal approach to how we treat women. I am appalled that in my lifetime things have gone backwards.
30
I practiced medicine for more than 40 years, now retired for four years. There is not enough space here for me to detail all the instances of gender discrimination/sexual discrimination I observed and/or experienced over the years. In essence, intelligent, capable women physicians were usually seen as bitchy or aggressive while intelligent, capable men were said to be assertive. Nobody ever paid attention to what women said during faculty meetings. Rarely were women acknowledged to know something that the men did not know on rounds. I recently noticed that little attention has been paid to the recent study which showed better outcomes when care was provided by female physicians. Something about listening more attentively to the patients and following guidelines??
5
More than half of women voters helped elected the crotch grabber in chief. The deserve every humiliation, harassment, and unequal pay coming their way
4
Thats absurd. So the other ones who didn't vote for Trump, did all they could not to get him elected, they should suffer?
BTW; the inequality is already there, it could only get worse. Is that a good way to move the needle? Good way to make a point, so to maybe get those female Trump voters to not do it again?
No one deserves to be humiliated just to make an absurd point.
BTW; the inequality is already there, it could only get worse. Is that a good way to move the needle? Good way to make a point, so to maybe get those female Trump voters to not do it again?
No one deserves to be humiliated just to make an absurd point.
Nope, more than half of *White* women voters. Women of color voted overwhelmingly against him. The distinction is important. We white women need to stop choosing racial privilege over what is right. If and when we do, we can start to make a real difference.
no, they don't. Even if you're just referring to the women who voted for him, internalizrd sexism is a thing. As usual, you can blame the patriarchy for that.
I understand the desire to be vindictive, but it's more complicated than that.
I understand the desire to be vindictive, but it's more complicated than that.
1
This is not news -
11
Correct. It's an editorial about recent actual news.
1
It's an editorial which generally means a comment on something that has happened recently in the news.
2
What about the female genital mutilation surgery taking place in Detroit? Where is NOW? Where are the women politicians? Where is help for these little girls?
6
You think only males were involved with passing those anti-FGM laws, for alerting authorities and then arresting those responsible? Wow, what planet and century do you live in to not understand how incredibly difficult it is to confront ANY religion in the U.S., particularly the obvious dangerous misogynies of Islam and the Vatican.
2
It does keep those broads under control. Make sure that they become pregnant (knocked up), make sure that they stay pregnant (anti abortion), make sure that they have babies, and then nothing. They are evil. They brought it on.
Perfect for the men, as usual.
And on top of that, pay them less than men. It's just perfect. If women ever get organized, look out.
Meanwhile we elect Trump. Go figure.
He even objectifies his own daughter. What chance does a mere woman have?
Perfect for the men, as usual.
And on top of that, pay them less than men. It's just perfect. If women ever get organized, look out.
Meanwhile we elect Trump. Go figure.
He even objectifies his own daughter. What chance does a mere woman have?
25
The Times and feminists contend that paying women less than men for the same job is "sexual abuse".
If local gardeners charge $35 to mow my lawn, but I pay the neighbor's teenager $25 to do it instead, then I suppose the Times editor will accuse me of "child abuse".
If local gardeners charge $35 to mow my lawn, but I pay the neighbor's teenager $25 to do it instead, then I suppose the Times editor will accuse me of "child abuse".
8
What do you call paying women less than men for the same job?
2
Please, don't give them any ideas...This paper is deeply invested in the grievance industry. A growth industry if there ever was one.
1
You have to ask yourself why you chose to compare a Woman's Salary to a Teenager cutting your lawn?
The problem is bigger than FOX news it is a societal problem .......
No sex education ,no ethical standards for television, kids think sex is very day event , you can't turn on evening shows without watching people getting undress .............certainly not like tv in the fifties and sixties . The main problem is men are in charge and women are afraid they will lose their paycheck . Even women Senators are afraid to report.
Just a few hours after Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand (D-NY) went public with accounts of sexual harassment from her fellow lawmakers, male reporters question her credibility.
Politico’s senior congressional reporter, John Bresnahan, posted “I challenge this story. called it “moronic.”
New York Times’ Nick Confessore and Politico’s Alex Burns, have gone after Gillibrand for telling the truth, but not the whole truth.
“Shouldn’t Gillbrand name these Senate guys who fat-shamed her? Doesn’t she kind of have a responsibility to name them?” Confessore tweeted.
Current military leadership(particularly Army) maintains a control over sexual assault programs by assigning enlisted (E-7's) to positions (SACR) of authority over programs where many officers can inject and control the entire process. These E-7 SACR are also have authority over many victim advocates and SACR civilians GS-9-13. Military commanders (99%male)
, the rapist’s commander, not a legally trained prosecutor, has the power to decide if the case goes to trial. Men stand up your mothers .
No sex education ,no ethical standards for television, kids think sex is very day event , you can't turn on evening shows without watching people getting undress .............certainly not like tv in the fifties and sixties . The main problem is men are in charge and women are afraid they will lose their paycheck . Even women Senators are afraid to report.
Just a few hours after Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand (D-NY) went public with accounts of sexual harassment from her fellow lawmakers, male reporters question her credibility.
Politico’s senior congressional reporter, John Bresnahan, posted “I challenge this story. called it “moronic.”
New York Times’ Nick Confessore and Politico’s Alex Burns, have gone after Gillibrand for telling the truth, but not the whole truth.
“Shouldn’t Gillbrand name these Senate guys who fat-shamed her? Doesn’t she kind of have a responsibility to name them?” Confessore tweeted.
Current military leadership(particularly Army) maintains a control over sexual assault programs by assigning enlisted (E-7's) to positions (SACR) of authority over programs where many officers can inject and control the entire process. These E-7 SACR are also have authority over many victim advocates and SACR civilians GS-9-13. Military commanders (99%male)
, the rapist’s commander, not a legally trained prosecutor, has the power to decide if the case goes to trial. Men stand up your mothers .
3
Libel, I'm with you, but is there something wrong with sex being an everyday event?
Sex harassment has been on the map since the early (Clarence Thomas) and mid-1990s, when legal secretary Rena Weeks sued major law firm Baker & McKenzie for turning a blind eye to its rainmaking sexual predator/partner - $6.8 million, or 10% of the whole firm's profits for that year.
The mechanisms for nipping it in the bud have been in place for almost as long - the 1998 SCOTUS opinions in the 'Ellerth' and 'Farragher' cases crafted a road map for corporate prevention. That's twenty years, folks - half a career.
Conclusion: ANY contemporary failure-to-act demonstrates an extreme and callous Lack of Corporate Will, Not Ignorance. It's just Not that hard on the merits, only on the courage to act against bullies.
In-House Legal and HR: DO YOUR JOBS!
The mechanisms for nipping it in the bud have been in place for almost as long - the 1998 SCOTUS opinions in the 'Ellerth' and 'Farragher' cases crafted a road map for corporate prevention. That's twenty years, folks - half a career.
Conclusion: ANY contemporary failure-to-act demonstrates an extreme and callous Lack of Corporate Will, Not Ignorance. It's just Not that hard on the merits, only on the courage to act against bullies.
In-House Legal and HR: DO YOUR JOBS!
Fox News should never have seen the light of day. A foreigner should never have been allowed to own an American news network. Profits were shamelessly put ahead of integrity. Damage was done to the democracy... the low point is the election of Trump as president.
Europe be ware! Do not let Fox acquire Sky tv!!!
Europe be ware! Do not let Fox acquire Sky tv!!!
23
Forgive me for asking, but is "Elsewhere" synonymous with "The Twilight Zone".
You grant far too much power to a cable news network the average number of views of which rarely tops 1.4 million viewers.
You also seem to forget that the First Amendment of the United States grants great freedoms to those who wish to speak and to engage in activities that are considered to be "press".
I am not sure that I, or many others, would be interested in living in a society that adheres to the type of standards that you are projecting...
It's called tyranny.
You grant far too much power to a cable news network the average number of views of which rarely tops 1.4 million viewers.
You also seem to forget that the First Amendment of the United States grants great freedoms to those who wish to speak and to engage in activities that are considered to be "press".
I am not sure that I, or many others, would be interested in living in a society that adheres to the type of standards that you are projecting...
It's called tyranny.
rupey became a us citizen just so he could make a mockery of your media
what a sport, eh
25 MILLION !!!!! and that is a victory for women .... you're kidding
4
The women getting $25 million is better than the usual--i.e. $zero!!! But you're right--the WAY bigger payouts to the entitled predatory white guys is a horrifying reminder of how much farther we still have to go in this cultural shift.
1
It is absolutely atrocious to be forced to pay for the Fox News cauldron of sociopathy to get high speed internet access in this moronic nation of government-mandated servitude to rentiers.
In the recent interview with Jake Tapper, Sarah Palin said women should not put up with sexual harassment or "stick around for a paycheck for years and years and then complain after the fact". Imagine your next job interview when asked why you left your previous employer and honestly reply you were harassed. How well do you think that will work for you?
19
The ignorant and sexist comments here prove the point of the article, women are deliberately and commonly held down and back in terms of pay and opportunity. This cave man attitude has to be fought at every level for true equality to ever occur.
24
Trump himself mainstreamed caveman behavior. This is his legacy.
Melania must be so embarrassed she put up with it for the past 10 years.
Wonder what horrid thing he said to her at his inauguration that fully wiped the smile away from her face, and made her look tearful, as Ivanka also looked askance at him.
Melania must be so embarrassed she put up with it for the past 10 years.
Wonder what horrid thing he said to her at his inauguration that fully wiped the smile away from her face, and made her look tearful, as Ivanka also looked askance at him.
4
Look at that video. Not just when Melania's face drops to the Capitol steps, but when Trump turns back to the camera, with a self-satisfied smirk. That ending shot encapsulates perfectly the bullying, narcissistic character of the White House's present occupant.
1
I love the way that well-heeled American white women eagerly and shamelessly appropriate the sufferings of very poor black girls in Haiti to indignantly proclaim, 'See how we women are oppressed!'.
3
The real issue is not "black girls in Haiti."
It is the issue that practically everywhere, one way or another, women are second-class citizens, and men are first-class citizens. The girls in Haiti, the girls who suffer FGM, the girls who are kidnapped and made into sex slaves, are are the ones at the very worst end of this situation, but it's a spectrum.
The REAL question is, after all this time, why aren't women on an equal footing with men? Are we not human, or something?
It is the issue that practically everywhere, one way or another, women are second-class citizens, and men are first-class citizens. The girls in Haiti, the girls who suffer FGM, the girls who are kidnapped and made into sex slaves, are are the ones at the very worst end of this situation, but it's a spectrum.
The REAL question is, after all this time, why aren't women on an equal footing with men? Are we not human, or something?
2
Currently I am teaching 3 sections of an MBA course at my university.
Barely 25% of the class are women. So the Times is going to have to wait a long time for what it calls "gender parity" in the board room.
In the meantime, doubtless the Times will go on blaming misogyny for the lack of gender parity. What does the Times suggest we do? Force women into the class at gunpoint?
By setting a preposterous goal that disregards men's and women's choices, the Times guarantees that its war against men will go on for eternity. I suppose the plus is that Times writers can go on recycling the same material ad nauseam.
For God's sake, let's stop the finger-pointing.
Barely 25% of the class are women. So the Times is going to have to wait a long time for what it calls "gender parity" in the board room.
In the meantime, doubtless the Times will go on blaming misogyny for the lack of gender parity. What does the Times suggest we do? Force women into the class at gunpoint?
By setting a preposterous goal that disregards men's and women's choices, the Times guarantees that its war against men will go on for eternity. I suppose the plus is that Times writers can go on recycling the same material ad nauseam.
For God's sake, let's stop the finger-pointing.
8
And yet more female MBA's are graduated each year than male MBA's. Must be our own fault somewhere else in the pipeline?
3
Many of a woman's choices are based on the reality of discrimination. Why get into a MBA program when the instructors (predominantly male) openly discourage and belittle them? why do all that hard work when they know they will not be hired or will receive lower wages, fewer promotions and less meaningful assignments than their male classmates?
It's been very disheartening to read a lot of the comments attached to articles about O'Reilly's ouster on the Web this past week. Those comments were full of ignorance about the nature of sexual harassment and contempt for the women. There is still an attitude that women who are victims of domestic abuse and domestic abuse are causing their own problems because they "choose" to stay. Sarah Palin's response was repugnant, basically saying what too many do, that there isn't a problem with men behaving that way; the problem is with the women who are (too weak, stupid, complicit, ambitious...) to (quit, fight back, leave the husband...).
I was sexually harassed on a job, and I can assure these ignorants that it is not at all the same as a man making a pass at you. I was afraid my boss would murder me. I was desperately trying to find another job, to no avail (Reagan recession). I had no money. My life was a living hell because of this man who could not take no for an answer. He finally fired me because I would not appease his grotesque advances and engage in his Trump-like discourse about his amazing sexual conquests. So yes, it changed the trajectory of my life in a big way, and not in a positive way. And all I'd ever done was get up in the morning and go to work and try my best to do my best job. And now I had to explain why I was fired after only three months in ensuing job interviews. This is NOT men making passes at women. It's bosses really ruining lives.
I was sexually harassed on a job, and I can assure these ignorants that it is not at all the same as a man making a pass at you. I was afraid my boss would murder me. I was desperately trying to find another job, to no avail (Reagan recession). I had no money. My life was a living hell because of this man who could not take no for an answer. He finally fired me because I would not appease his grotesque advances and engage in his Trump-like discourse about his amazing sexual conquests. So yes, it changed the trajectory of my life in a big way, and not in a positive way. And all I'd ever done was get up in the morning and go to work and try my best to do my best job. And now I had to explain why I was fired after only three months in ensuing job interviews. This is NOT men making passes at women. It's bosses really ruining lives.
More identity politics from the Editorial Board. The Times was deadly silent over eight years of Bill Clinton's Presidency and all of his low brow antics involving women. Then all last year The Times made no inquiry with those women who adamantly maintain that the former President sexually assaulted them and that further Mrs. Clinton was his greatest enabler. Now conveniently this paper's editors are greatly distressed by the behavior of a conservative television personality. How selective.
5
Bill Clinton started this whole degradation of women thing.
5
Bill Clinton started this whole degradation of women thing?
I hope you are joking, but in the context of so many of the comments here, it's hard to tell!
"This whole degradation of women" thing has been going on for thousands of years. It's very pervasiveness in our culture is what makes it so challenging to deal with.
It went on everywhere--including the White House--long before Bill Clinton. Bill Clinton was simply the first to be publicly called out on it. AND he was called out on it as a way for the Clintons' right wing tormentors to bring him down more than as a way to establish women's right to do their jobs without having to provide sexual favors or serve as sexual fantasy foils for their powerful bosses.
I hope you are joking, but in the context of so many of the comments here, it's hard to tell!
"This whole degradation of women" thing has been going on for thousands of years. It's very pervasiveness in our culture is what makes it so challenging to deal with.
It went on everywhere--including the White House--long before Bill Clinton. Bill Clinton was simply the first to be publicly called out on it. AND he was called out on it as a way for the Clintons' right wing tormentors to bring him down more than as a way to establish women's right to do their jobs without having to provide sexual favors or serve as sexual fantasy foils for their powerful bosses.
2
Another male pointing out Bill Clinton... who hired and promoted a lot of women. Off topic, please try to stay focused. One way you can is think about how you did not adequately address this issue before you retired.
How ignorant! "The degradation of women thing" has been going on for thousands of years.
1
How ironic that an ad featuring a scantily clad young woman should appear in the online version of this column. Perhaps the NYT should look at itself as part of the problem.
For American women it is men with neither morals nor respect nor humility nor empathy but with lots of money or power or fame. America was founded upon the principle of second class female citizenship and misogyny. It is not about sex.
In the beginning there was Thomas Jefferson having serial procreative sex with his enslaved African property dusky Sallie Hemmings. John Fitzgerald Kennedy and William Jefferson Clinton had sexual affairs with White House staff members. Mahatma Gandhi, Nelson Mandela and Martin L. King, Sr. were all serial adulterers with their "colleagues. Then there is Donald John Trump and there was William H. Cosby.
Indeed, this is much more than an Bill O'Reilly or Roger Ailes or Fox News problem.
In the beginning there was Thomas Jefferson having serial procreative sex with his enslaved African property dusky Sallie Hemmings. John Fitzgerald Kennedy and William Jefferson Clinton had sexual affairs with White House staff members. Mahatma Gandhi, Nelson Mandela and Martin L. King, Sr. were all serial adulterers with their "colleagues. Then there is Donald John Trump and there was William H. Cosby.
Indeed, this is much more than an Bill O'Reilly or Roger Ailes or Fox News problem.
8
I suspect that the same sort of situation exists within the newsroom and hierarchy of the Times's offices.
Donald Trump, among many despicable things he did in the campaign to the White House, one incident which should have ended his campaign and destroyed his chances for the White House was the infamous Billy Bush tape. Trump was caught stating what he believes about women: grabbing a woman's genitals was not only good, but sport and easy for him. After that, normally disgustingly appalling revelation, 53% of white women voted for Trump, along with 63% of white men, which means they agree with and condone that behavior, along with the hate, racism and lies.
This is exactly why I insisted my daughter get her black belt before going off the college. I told her to scream 'rape' at the top of her voice if she were physically harassed, then beat the clown into a coma.
From a father. Enough is too much
From a father. Enough is too much
1
The New York Times should look in the mirror regarding treatment of women in the workplace.
1
The dirty little secret is that Oreilly was never a conservative. He did not even have the gumption to endorse Trump. The fake scandal that brought him down was hatched in the NY times boardroom. The liberals took their scalp and Oreilly got 40 million to take a year off. Big victory. Oh yea...Trump won. Gorsuch not Garland will be deciding cases for the next 30 years. Republicans control both houses. And sorry...Trump will be a 2 term president. Mark it down.
1
Funny how you think Trump "won." Not in the number of popular votes, and not on Long Island. The world is leaving you behind.... in more places than you think. And when women stop accepting they have a different role (as I am sure you believe) than men in society, you will have an even harder time. I look forward to it. Hillary "lost" this round. Women will win the next one to the benefit of all of us.
I was reminded again this week, after seeing the documentary 'Boston', how stunted the American culture has been and still is about women. If we want to move beyond these perceptions, then it has to start in the classroom and at home. Education is so important in derailing ideas that women are second to men. It has to be relentless and never silenced. And it can't be selective.
3
Agreed. And this has sooooo much to do with what a young girl views in the media - the Internet, social media being such powerful forces now for our youth. This is where a young girl will learn how she should act and how she should look. So much of it today suggests that even a "strong, smart and driven woman looking for that high-level job in the workforce" will need to look pretty, a woman in good shape, well-dressed and wearing her make-up. I am a male, never married and without kids, even a sister, so I cannot speak for what occurs in a household today; so I ask, "What do moms - even dads - tell their daughters what is so wrong with this sexist culture?" Why do so many young girls immediately fall into this way of thinking? Is it perceived simply as the best way to survive? Its sad, but so much of our culture is enforcing it from Day One. I am even shocked that so many girls-only schools still require a mini-dress uniform; how many commercials supposedly concentrating on family values have their young girls in bathing suits, or often cuddling with their daddies, maybe licking an ice cream (take a look at those insurance or travel ads).
1
If the metric were competence in this country, women would pretty much be running things.
But as we can see with the election of Trump and his appointment of cabinet officers and aides, competence has nothing to do with it--including which candidate voters vote for.
Women do better in school and college than boys and men; plus are generally the ones in the family who act as the "executive in juggling the demands of work and family, In my experience, maybe dad takes the kids to the orthodontist, but all too often it is mom who sets up the appointments and gives dad the schedule and history of issues and concerns.
I have had a number of recent conversations with owners of small business who say they prefer to hire women--not because women will work for lower wages, but because increasingly too many men are "goof-offs" and unreliable, so, if you want the job done, hire women.
What is interesting is how white men cope with competing with women (or minorities) for jobs. Do they up their skills, work harder, and improve their performance, or do they indulge in self-pity and blame women for taking "their" jobs? Not a formula for success for anyone or any country. Trump milked that cow for all it was worth in the 2016 election.
Incompetents of the world unite!
But as we can see with the election of Trump and his appointment of cabinet officers and aides, competence has nothing to do with it--including which candidate voters vote for.
Women do better in school and college than boys and men; plus are generally the ones in the family who act as the "executive in juggling the demands of work and family, In my experience, maybe dad takes the kids to the orthodontist, but all too often it is mom who sets up the appointments and gives dad the schedule and history of issues and concerns.
I have had a number of recent conversations with owners of small business who say they prefer to hire women--not because women will work for lower wages, but because increasingly too many men are "goof-offs" and unreliable, so, if you want the job done, hire women.
What is interesting is how white men cope with competing with women (or minorities) for jobs. Do they up their skills, work harder, and improve their performance, or do they indulge in self-pity and blame women for taking "their" jobs? Not a formula for success for anyone or any country. Trump milked that cow for all it was worth in the 2016 election.
Incompetents of the world unite!
5
Do you wonder why so many women voted FOR Trump?
For some Women, I suspect there is a come-on displayed in hope to advance with less talent and work, a lot more than one might think!
2
One would think the gender pay gap would not show up in higher education, but alas, it's thriving there. Women continue to make significantly less than men, across the board (at the rank of full professor, women make about 15 percent less than men who are full professors--in comparable fields).
I was a full professor who, on top of my regular salary, had an extra salary boost that was awarded because of my exceptional professional accomplishments. I was also consistently rated the best teacher in my department.
Even so, when I took early retirement in 2014, I found out I was making about 25 percent less than the two male colleagues in my department of the same rank, and in my same area of specialization. Neither had the professional accomplishments I did.
In academe, people are very secretive about salaries, and stupid me, I'd never done the research that would have led me to discover that at the moment women are hired, they're offered less. Those doing the hiring know they can get away with this because they know women will always be grateful for whatever they're offered.
I spent more than four decades clawing my way to the top of academe, and I am proud to say I got there--but not in pay. What galls me isn't the money. It's the injustice. The rank, insulting, crude, exploitative injustice of it all.
I was a full professor who, on top of my regular salary, had an extra salary boost that was awarded because of my exceptional professional accomplishments. I was also consistently rated the best teacher in my department.
Even so, when I took early retirement in 2014, I found out I was making about 25 percent less than the two male colleagues in my department of the same rank, and in my same area of specialization. Neither had the professional accomplishments I did.
In academe, people are very secretive about salaries, and stupid me, I'd never done the research that would have led me to discover that at the moment women are hired, they're offered less. Those doing the hiring know they can get away with this because they know women will always be grateful for whatever they're offered.
I spent more than four decades clawing my way to the top of academe, and I am proud to say I got there--but not in pay. What galls me isn't the money. It's the injustice. The rank, insulting, crude, exploitative injustice of it all.
9
The ERA would have given women a legal basis for contesting wage and other discrimination. That's probably why it failed. It would appear that it needs to be reconsidered.
All the unions in the world will not overcome the mostly old white male billionaires and corporate boardrooms made up of, yes old wealthy white males, that make the decisions (wage differences) and run companies as though they were their own private kingdom. As long as they make more money than they have to payout in legal fees and settlements, they just look at it as an acceptable risk. No different than when a company keep a defective product on the market, so long as the dollar intake is more than the dollar output. They buy excess risk insurance to cover and pay for it. And guess what, we as consumers pay in the end, as they pass it along in the form of higher prices. Isn't capitalism wonderful.
5
Excellent article. However, one sentence tripped me up, revealing a problem that often irks me as a longtime subscriber: You too often assume that your readers are all members of the ruling class. When you write "If highly paid women in glamorous media jobs feel that way, imagine what it’s like for women living paycheck to paycheck," you assume your reader will have to imagine such a thing because she herself could not possibly be living paycheck to paycheck. A quick edit, along the lines of "As bad as things are for highly paid women in glamorous media jobs, it's far worse for women living paycheck to paycheck," would have fixed the problem. I hope you will take more care in the future not to alienate those of your readers (or potential readers) who are not economically or otherwise privileged.
7
I'm at somewhat of a loss here. Now, I'm constantly being told that men and women are the same. Women can be just as tough as men. This is the argument for women serving in combat units. Yet, at the same time, women are victims? So, if you're the same, can't you defend yourself as many men do? Hmm, I guess I need to spend more time in a cocoon, such as a sociology class.
2
Who is telling you that? You need to get out of that particular cocoon. Defend themselves? Do you imagine that men in the workplace engage in physical combat to determine who earns what salary and who is promoted? You need to get out of the particular cocoon.
Yes, Mortarman, just as men can feel like "victims" (you know, those Trump voters in the so-called Rust Belt) while men rule the boardrooms. Geez, life is complicated isn't it? Fact is that this does not change the fact that women can be, and often are, extremely tough. Even those women who are toughing out as they are victimized in the workplace.
No one is denying that men have the physical advantage over women regarding raw strength. And as this article points out, men continue to hold advantage in the workplace using various means, including the ever-pervasive threat of physical violence. What we are asking is that men stop using these unfair means, and "structural impediments" in the workplace, and let women compete on intelligence, creativity, and talent alone. The science is there...corporate bottom lines improve when women have equal power in the workplace.
After a lifetime of working for small companies to major corporations, mostly in media, here's the sad news: sexual harassment exists everywhere and will continue, hopefully less rather than more. We rarely hear about
cases that are settled out of court. But on air personalities or any case involving. a celebrity gets the coverage. Other women who "settle" don't get multimillion dollar payouts and then, what company do they use for a reference?
cases that are settled out of court. But on air personalities or any case involving. a celebrity gets the coverage. Other women who "settle" don't get multimillion dollar payouts and then, what company do they use for a reference?
4
In the wake of the O'Reilly affair, i am interested in seeing if Fox News pursues other reforms such as abolishing the "leg cam" which focuses on the legs of female correspondents, otherwise their interest in workplce equality is meaningless. Thank you.
4
When a mother told her teenage daughter that all boys want is sex, she was not only addressing a genetic verity, but also the greatest unspoken reason behind the disparity between the incomes of men and women. Not only is the male sex drive overarching, it also tends to separate men into winners and losers. "Loser" is a term commonly employed by women to describe undesirable men. "Alphas and omegas" are seldom used to describe women; because, like other primates it's the alpha men who attract the women.
I once met a beautiful, insightful, and cynical woman who said that she was surprised that any wealthy man would ever get married, because he could have all the beautiful women he could handle, which is all men really want anyway. But this is not just pure cynicism. As Henry Kissinger (the horny hamster) once said "power is the greatest aphrodisiac." Similarly, men do not get more handsome as they age, they get more powerful.
It doesn't take a young man long to learn that the secret to sexual success is not the lottery of birth, which they may or may not have won, but wealth and power, which they can often obtain with enough drive. It is this huge difference in motivation towards wealth and power which underlies the unexplained difference in the earning power of men and women.
I once met a beautiful, insightful, and cynical woman who said that she was surprised that any wealthy man would ever get married, because he could have all the beautiful women he could handle, which is all men really want anyway. But this is not just pure cynicism. As Henry Kissinger (the horny hamster) once said "power is the greatest aphrodisiac." Similarly, men do not get more handsome as they age, they get more powerful.
It doesn't take a young man long to learn that the secret to sexual success is not the lottery of birth, which they may or may not have won, but wealth and power, which they can often obtain with enough drive. It is this huge difference in motivation towards wealth and power which underlies the unexplained difference in the earning power of men and women.
I read references to men in these comments that implicitly rationalize male sexual harassment as "old school" or committed by "guys." As someone who thinks of himself as both "old school" and a "guy," I think I speak for millions of American men who find abusive behavior toward women by the Roger Aileses and Bill O'Reillys of this world disgusting and inexcusable. And my father and grandfathers and their fathers and grandfathers - all "old school" - would have felt the same way.
2
FOX News? Murdoch's propaganda agency to fulfill his dream of being a real life "Citizen Kane"? I have to wonder why anyone who cared about their reputation amongst their peers would go to work there? The Money? The masses who watch it because the graphics are designed to mesmerize? Or because anyone who would work there, allowing their image and voice be used to promote nonsense, lack essential character, dignity, and morality to begin with. Above and beyond being a "journalist", as a person, or citizen of the United States. They are not alone. It is chronic in all professions and trades in this nation. But as a woman, going to work there, I guess equality was achieved by the theory of "the least common denominator". Everyone who broadcasts there, Male or Female, are all prostituting themselves, and what is left of the fourth estate. So how many men or women there, who had their careers advance at FOX readily jumped into bed with the likes of Ailes, or O'Reilly, to benefit themselves? How many other stars, or managers, at FOX continue with this pattern, and how many subordinates gladly jump into bed, to benefit their resumes, and undermine the competition within their ranks. Oh, and am I to believe this has not gone on at CNBC, CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS, etc., etc.
A problem we women must confront is the many ways we hold ourselves back and allow discrimination. We have to look inside, not just outside, to free ourselves. When Donald Trump's comments on Access Hollywood came out, I thought he was finished, just like Romney was finished with his 47% comment. I thought women would not elect him. Wrong.
How did Hillary Hatred Derangement Syndrome, the headline of Dorothy Rabinowitz' memorable piece in the WSJ, proliferate so widely? I saw it everywhere I looked here in the deep south. It's women's own disdain for, as in some cases resentment of, truly capable fellow females like Hillary. Oh, do we pay for it societally, by holding half of our society back and down. This clearly includes the best and the brightest who are true leaders and stateswomen. Even proven ones.
And look who we have as president today.
How did Hillary Hatred Derangement Syndrome, the headline of Dorothy Rabinowitz' memorable piece in the WSJ, proliferate so widely? I saw it everywhere I looked here in the deep south. It's women's own disdain for, as in some cases resentment of, truly capable fellow females like Hillary. Oh, do we pay for it societally, by holding half of our society back and down. This clearly includes the best and the brightest who are true leaders and stateswomen. Even proven ones.
And look who we have as president today.
3
You were upset that Romney actually wanted and had qualified women in his businesses? The democrats along with their allies in the press totally took his comment out of context. Talk about low-information voters. This is how we ended up with Obama.
Women (and many others) are second class citizens in American society and culture. Equality and freedom from sexual harassment in the workplace will not occur until our culture and society change.
Women in college who are sexually assaulted are more often than not blamed as the victim. Witness the cases at Baylor University and Stanford. Victim shaming is so pervasive in America especially when women confront men. Rape kits go untested. Child pornography is rampant. Why is this subject never a topic of discussion or national policy? Because (mostly white) men hold all the power.
Power in the form of job titles, money, law enforcement up to the judiciary, you name it.
Women are going to have to Take Away that power because it will not be given up lightly. Look at men like Rep. Chaffetz who could not look his 15 year old daughter in the eye and vote for sexual predator Trump and then just turned around and did just that. So much for 'women rights'.
No, women must use every tool in the book to actively change not only laws but our national all male all the time mindset. If we do not stand up for ourselves no one else will.
Women in college who are sexually assaulted are more often than not blamed as the victim. Witness the cases at Baylor University and Stanford. Victim shaming is so pervasive in America especially when women confront men. Rape kits go untested. Child pornography is rampant. Why is this subject never a topic of discussion or national policy? Because (mostly white) men hold all the power.
Power in the form of job titles, money, law enforcement up to the judiciary, you name it.
Women are going to have to Take Away that power because it will not be given up lightly. Look at men like Rep. Chaffetz who could not look his 15 year old daughter in the eye and vote for sexual predator Trump and then just turned around and did just that. So much for 'women rights'.
No, women must use every tool in the book to actively change not only laws but our national all male all the time mindset. If we do not stand up for ourselves no one else will.
3
I am 46 years old. I learned at the age of 18 that if you complained no one believed you, thanks to Clarence Thomas. I learned at the age of 25, thanks to Bill Clinton and Monica Lewinsky, that if you were in an unequal power relationship with your boss, you would be vilified and have no future; he would go on to reinvent himself and get reelected. At the age of 45, I learned that most Americans are OK with a president who said he lusts after his daughter and bragged about assaulting women. And I'd note that I didn't change the profile here to show my name rather than my spouse's because the chances that I'll be trolled, harassed, and threatened with rape and death because of my comments are rather high. I have been harassed in almost every job, from the time I was 15. This has included men leering at me, so I now almost never wear skirts or heels, being told I'd be fired if I got pregnant, being denied pay and promotions despite asking, being told stories by my boss of women being raped, being denied access to cellphones and cars in remote locations, being forced to work in dangerous situations. Nevertheless, I persisted, but I often wonder why. What did it matter? I fear as my daughter enters the workforce. She's already been physically assaulted at school by boys, and begged me not to tell the administration because she'd be retaliated against. And I knew she was right. Don't tell me to step up, stop being a victim, dress differently, act differently. Tell men to stop.
9
A need to eat? And when you tell your experience lots of men will defend themselves as if it's about them and give those off topic comments about evolution favoring their lust. Yet they could hold it back if their mom was watching, or a female police officer watching. It only 'natural' when they think they can get away with it. It's all of us. Some of us are in denial, or take personal responsibility and try to change ourselves.
We work because we need to eat and feed our young. And they can express their moral objections to our terminating pregnancies as if we are just loose sluts, that decision isn't the hardest one to make, and we did it to ourselves. Go figure.
We work because we need to eat and feed our young. And they can express their moral objections to our terminating pregnancies as if we are just loose sluts, that decision isn't the hardest one to make, and we did it to ourselves. Go figure.
"The question is how to bridge the gulf between what women deserve and what they’re getting." Completely wrong. The question to answer should be, "What are the reasons that create the gulf between what women feel they deserve and what they're getting?"
All the editorial board did to fill column space was dust off the worn out "I'm not getting my fair share; now fix it!" argument, print it and waste our time reading it. It's a newspaper, remember?
All the editorial board did to fill column space was dust off the worn out "I'm not getting my fair share; now fix it!" argument, print it and waste our time reading it. It's a newspaper, remember?
Sad to say women have climbed about two steps on the economic, gender equality of the ladder. But about the sexual abuse, we are in the caveman ages.
2
What is wrong with the executives at Fox?
Why do they hire so many lying, men-hating females? Fox needs to train their obviously stupid and unobservant executives to pick the right women.
We know all the men at Fox are men of impeccable integrity because they have told us so.
Why do they hire so many lying, men-hating females? Fox needs to train their obviously stupid and unobservant executives to pick the right women.
We know all the men at Fox are men of impeccable integrity because they have told us so.
1
One thing (among many) continues to bother me about the fight for women's rights--in the work world as well as in health and politics---
where are the men?
(White) male politicians and business leaders fill the photo ops when policies are being signed to suppress women.
But in photos of politicians signing bills that protect women, the photos feature mostly women.
This perpetuates the belief that these are "just" women's issues, that "just" women care about, when in reality they affect us all.
Kudos to the intelligent, brave men who are vocal supporters, but many more men need to step up, join the fight and be visible.
where are the men?
(White) male politicians and business leaders fill the photo ops when policies are being signed to suppress women.
But in photos of politicians signing bills that protect women, the photos feature mostly women.
This perpetuates the belief that these are "just" women's issues, that "just" women care about, when in reality they affect us all.
Kudos to the intelligent, brave men who are vocal supporters, but many more men need to step up, join the fight and be visible.
190
@SLBvt You're assuming that at least some of the missing men care about the status of women but what data have you that supports that assumption? Elevating women would cause more competition for the "pie," making things more difficult for men.
That's the bottom line, I'm afraid.
That's the bottom line, I'm afraid.
I've asked that question of many a man with no response, they just dismiss the question.
We just saw this on a national scale. Hillary Clinton was said to be one of the most qualified people to run for President, and Donald Trump one of the least qualified, having worked nowhere but in his own company. People are now exhaustively looking into why she lost. Her campaign team made mistakes and didn't always listen to advice. Of course, Trump's team was in disarray most of the time, and Trump didn't listen to them anyway. She was "secretive" and thus tried to control her emails. He was a sexual predator and allegedly stiffed workers and those at Trump University, and constantly not only lied, but told whoppers. She made money giving Wall Street speeches, he made millions, who knows how, because he wouldn't release his taxes. She was constantly disparaged for what she wore, and how she looked, while The Donald, well, I leave that one to you to figure out. Now I know that the reason she lost was not just because she is a woman, but add that one fact to the playing field after taking a look at the two candidates, and I think it was a tipping point in Trump's direction. Too bad. We could use a woman in charge at the moment, and it would have helped a bit with some of the points made in this article.
218
it should be clear to all who view their news and opinion programming that Fox hires women for their sex appeal. I rarely watch Fox so I don't know the names of the women or the shows they appear on, but I do notice that all of the females look and dress like Melania Trump, former model, broadcasting their curvaceous bodies as much as their intelligence. One show always positions the female commentator at the front end of the semi-circular table so that her long, shapely legs and spike heels are visible. That should be a clue to all serious female journalists and guest contributors and experts that Fox views women as talkng arm candy. I'd like to know if Fox has a "dress code" for women who appear on camera.
154
All networks seem to have the "eye candy" requirement or pressure! It makes me sick, even in the midst of a snowstorm, that the women newscasters are wearing tight, sleeveless dresses with spike heels and the men are buttoned up to the chin in suit attire.
One woman revealed that she had a blanket on her lap in order to cope.
One woman revealed that she had a blanket on her lap in order to cope.
it's not just Fox. Take a look at other media outlet like the weather channels...the men are clothed in a professional looking suit & tie or long sleeved shirts & slacks & comfortable/sensible shoes. Never once have i seen the women meterologists wear a pant suit...always tight fitting dresses most often sleeveless (as much skin as possible) & hi-heels. It's the same in movies...women are almost always half naked while men are fully clothed - even when it's a winter scene. Lets change this type of messaging - women are more than just 'pin-ups'.
1
Fox does dictate the way its women journalists dress. Several former Fox employees have spoken to that fact.
There there is a readily drawn parabola that plots the relationship between how much a bloke is worth to an organisation against how dissolute he must be before the the organisation will dispense with him.
The best player in a sports franchise for example can commit almost limitless atrocities and remain whilst the under achiever is out for a trifle.
The dollar as in this case is the deciding factor.
It took the sponsors, ie the dollars for a call to be made here.
The best player in a sports franchise for example can commit almost limitless atrocities and remain whilst the under achiever is out for a trifle.
The dollar as in this case is the deciding factor.
It took the sponsors, ie the dollars for a call to be made here.
The large number of chest thumping misogynists and MRAs this article has brought out of the woodwork is an indication of how much worse the situation is in the U.S. for girls and women - as if we needed confirmation of that.
28
So is the election of not only Donald Trump, but Trump over a profoundly qualified, skilled, intelligent, and knowledgeable woman.
Just think, those are only the ones who got past the editors to have their posts accepted. I'm sure we're not seeing the worst of them.
1
This article was informative and also depressing. However, we need to remember that O'Reilly was on top one day and gone the next. Why? Because of at least two females, Emily Steele who was one of the investigative journalists who wrote the article that started the fall of the O'Reilly dominoes, and because of Lisa Bloom, the attorney who represents the latest victims who have come forward. Its war on the old white guys and Trump, you're next. There is reason to be hopeful. Resist!
21
Nope. It isn't "war" on old, white guys. It's war on sexism and misogyny, on privileges that are doled out unequally and a lack of understanding or respect for the importance of what women contribute to our society. This privilege and lack of awareness tends to be concentrated in the old-white-guy population, but it's also in the young-white-guy and other populations, too. So, let's target the ignorance, attitude, expression and behaviour, not blankets of people.
These are good points and I hope it all leads to more equality between the sexes insofar as possible. As a heterosexual single male I look forward to the day when I am not picking up the check 98% of the time, old men have as much wealth as their aged female counterparts and we men get to live as long as women. Viva true equality!
9
What a surprise to "learn" from this comment that "aged female counterparts" to "old men" somehow managed to scrape together more "wealth" than those men! Unfortunately research does not back up this claim. The figures I just found say women have 84% of male wealth in that age group. Looks like the sexist earning gap more than made up for all that "picking up the check," even for the men who whined about it.
I have never expected a man to pay for my meal unless its offered first, as I have taken out men when I ask them out to dinner. What is your point? You paying for dinner has nothing to do with equality in the workplace, its about cultural norms that you, yourself, are responsible for changing. It would be great to be a woman, now approaching 50, and not get honked at, yelled at, harassed, grabbed and assaulted your entire life. That is what this is about, not your pocket book and failure to date in a contemporary way.
Here's a reality check from the Social Security Administration:
In 2014, women over 65 received an average of $13,000 a year in Social Security benefits, compared to an average of $17,000 for men.
For unmarried women, including widows, 65 or over, Social Security benefits composed an average of 47 percent of their total income, compared to 34 percent for men.
For 46 percent of unmarried women, including widows, 65 or over, Social Security benefits were 90 percent or more of their total income.
https://www.ssa.gov/news/press/factsheets/ss-customer/women-ret.pdf
Given all that, I'm totally with you in hoping for more equality between the sexes.
In 2014, women over 65 received an average of $13,000 a year in Social Security benefits, compared to an average of $17,000 for men.
For unmarried women, including widows, 65 or over, Social Security benefits composed an average of 47 percent of their total income, compared to 34 percent for men.
For 46 percent of unmarried women, including widows, 65 or over, Social Security benefits were 90 percent or more of their total income.
https://www.ssa.gov/news/press/factsheets/ss-customer/women-ret.pdf
Given all that, I'm totally with you in hoping for more equality between the sexes.
To me Bill O'Reilly represents all the old white men that run my government agency and continue to have multiple opportunities to promote amazing competent females, in engineering no less, and refuse to do so. Instead I'm left to work with his hires, some of whose skills are questionable. The big boss does just enough to fill his "quotas" but not at the high levels unfortunately. Many of the women I work with are perplexed at this behavior. My only response is to find a more forward thinking work place that doesn't take gender into consideration. It is a big ask but I will not be deterred and will not be treated as a second class citizen when I bring an amazing skill set to the table. Change only comes with effort not with silence. May many more "O'Reilly's" be silenced by workplaces like FOX who see the downside to this behavior.
16
I have an oddball theory as to why men like that rise to powerful positions. It's because they want to be able to act like they do with impunity, and without rank and star power, they can't get away with it. So some subset of men work really hard to rise up high enough just so that they can be pigs and get away with it. When that behavior is no longer tolerated, they will lose that motivation, and things should even out.
This is a terrible way to start my day.
One summer during college I stitched awnings to make 'money'. Day after day stitching the same seams in a hot room making minimum wage. Meanwhile my two male friends were hanging those awnings and what a grand time they had being outside away from surveillance, lots of breaks to hang out while making considerably more money. After college I became a teacher and had a union to see to it women got equal pay. But unions have gone the way of the dinosaurs. I never experienced work place sexual harassment except from a student, but outside of work was another story.
When eating out I often feeling badly for female waiters who mostly work in affordable restaurants, but men seem to be the waiters of choice in high end restaurants. Say you as a customer always tip 20%, but that percentage of $25 for a dinner for two is vastly different from 20% of a $100 dinner for two. (do the arithmetic) Each worker is pretty much doing the same job (except for maybe suggesting wines) but the take home pay is vastly different.
When I was young and an early feminist I thought things would be different 50 years on, but sadly they are not. That's why I marched in Washington on 1/21. We still have a long way to go to reach equality and a safe from unfairness and harassment in the workplace.
One summer during college I stitched awnings to make 'money'. Day after day stitching the same seams in a hot room making minimum wage. Meanwhile my two male friends were hanging those awnings and what a grand time they had being outside away from surveillance, lots of breaks to hang out while making considerably more money. After college I became a teacher and had a union to see to it women got equal pay. But unions have gone the way of the dinosaurs. I never experienced work place sexual harassment except from a student, but outside of work was another story.
When eating out I often feeling badly for female waiters who mostly work in affordable restaurants, but men seem to be the waiters of choice in high end restaurants. Say you as a customer always tip 20%, but that percentage of $25 for a dinner for two is vastly different from 20% of a $100 dinner for two. (do the arithmetic) Each worker is pretty much doing the same job (except for maybe suggesting wines) but the take home pay is vastly different.
When I was young and an early feminist I thought things would be different 50 years on, but sadly they are not. That's why I marched in Washington on 1/21. We still have a long way to go to reach equality and a safe from unfairness and harassment in the workplace.
28
Follow the money. If advertisers hadn't bailed on O'Reilly and Sky merger wasn't on the table, he'd still be on the air. By the same token, Megyn Kelly was offered a huge salary to stay because she brought in high ratings=bucks to Fox. She will be paid more than most men at NBC.
In industries where results can be measured by revenues generated, such as my old job in global banking, bonuses and salaries were equal to men's. Where pay scales are allowed to be subjective and secret, disparities are more prevalent.
In industries where results can be measured by revenues generated, such as my old job in global banking, bonuses and salaries were equal to men's. Where pay scales are allowed to be subjective and secret, disparities are more prevalent.
13
I agree with this op-ed and many of the responses. The problem with change is that we are dealing with a culture whose values are implicit and unexamined. Men say and do things without understanding there impact. Women dress and act without understanding there impact. And the economic life of our culture is deaf to underlying prejudices. All this despite the wealth of explicit observations such as this op-ed? Go figure! Or realize that a lot of belief is, indeed, implicit and thereby hidden from the conscious mind.
2
You are absolutely right in that it takes two to tango and that women don't want to admit their roles in these situations.
"But social media has amplified the power of speaking out, while reducing opportunities for companies to retaliate in secret."
Not so sure about this. Retaliation could be all the greater because of unwanted public exposure and a way or a reason will be found to retaliate.
Not so sure about this. Retaliation could be all the greater because of unwanted public exposure and a way or a reason will be found to retaliate.
6
This whole sordid tale with O'Reilly and Ailes proves one clear point - when it comes to sexual harassment, many corporations will make a calculation: What will cost us more - ignoring the harassment or ignoring her? The message for all of us? Powerful men can get away with a lot, for a long time, as long as it doesn't cost their companies more money than they bring in.
21
Paying Mr. O'Reilly $25 million to go away makes me wonder about the contracts such people have: are there no "moral turpitude" clauses in them?
Perhaps there should be, if this behavior is anything like as common as women's complaints indicate it is. After all, to pay the miscreant nearly twice as much as the collective victims get doesn't seem very punitive, except to the shareholders of the company.
Perhaps there should be, if this behavior is anything like as common as women's complaints indicate it is. After all, to pay the miscreant nearly twice as much as the collective victims get doesn't seem very punitive, except to the shareholders of the company.
The disrespect of others in the workplace is WRONG. The reality is that most of this disrespect is shown to women, but not exclusively. I was the victim of anti male discrimination in a female dominated work environment, rare but occasionally true. The only real solution is to hold the perpetrators seriously responsible, immediate termination without the beloved golden parachutes. Please, all of these contracts contain morality clauses that allow for dismissal based on behavior not suited to the work place (pun definitely intended). One or two firings and the rest of these jerks will get the message to curtail their libidinous behavior.
8
Great article NYT. More like these need to be published. ONE problem though - according to the World Policy Institute as recently as 2016, 65% of NYT OP-EDS are written by men, and 71% of the front page quotes come from men. We have to practice what we preach, no?
22
The higher cost of being a women is well documented - not just in earning but in spending. Women pay more for everything (cars, dry cleaning, haircuts, etc.) and they earn less. Another example of asking people carrying an extra 30 lbs. of weight why they don't win more races.
8
Women pay taxes that also overwhelmingly go to support male endeavors: criminals, courts and law enforcement, as well as the constant erosion of one's self via looking over the shoulder for predators, having to lock doors, use security systems, distrust any male one encounters when simply going about one's daily life, thinking twice if it is okay to go for a 30-minute jog because rapists now haunt walking trails as much as they do public streets.
There is an extremely wide gray zone between harassment and sexism that must be acknowledged to advance fairness in the workplace for women. Examples of these subtle every day acts at work all around the country include:
1. What (else) is thought of a 30 year old women who asks a male worker to lunch or dinner to discuss a new venture?
2. When 3 workers are up for raises and two are males who happen to take the boss golfing and have his ear while coaching him, who will get the raises?
3. If a woman one day and a man the next speak up loudly and passionately in a meeting, are the male and female viewed similarly?
Fairness pervades in the workplace only after woman make up larger and larger percentages of the leadership roles.
Let's go.
1. What (else) is thought of a 30 year old women who asks a male worker to lunch or dinner to discuss a new venture?
2. When 3 workers are up for raises and two are males who happen to take the boss golfing and have his ear while coaching him, who will get the raises?
3. If a woman one day and a man the next speak up loudly and passionately in a meeting, are the male and female viewed similarly?
Fairness pervades in the workplace only after woman make up larger and larger percentages of the leadership roles.
Let's go.
9
This article is a solid primer on the struggles that women face in the workplace, with one glaring omission: 50% of all workplace bullying is between a female boss and a female employee. I have been on the ugly receiving end of that scenario several times. It's awful. And it has to stop.
Women, we must support and encourage one another just as much as we seek to right the horrible wrongs of sexual harassment. A healthy workplace will not be created if we just focus on gender disparity in all its hideous forms. For every O'Reilly, there are many more acts of micro-aggression that over time do just as much damage. This is not an issue of men vs. women. This is a human issue. Everyone needs to be a part of solving it. O'Reilly and others like him get away with this behavior because too many people, men and women, look the other way because they aren't directly impacted.
The workplace often lacks empathy, compassion, and true collaboration. That plays out in wage and promotion disparity, diverse representation at every level of a company, in products and product marketing, and in daily team dynamics. We need to stand side-by-side, men and women, roll up our sleeves, and solve problems together.
In-fighting and aggression doesn't solve anything; it makes everything worse for everyone—employees, employers, companies, shareholders, and customers. When we go to work tomorrow, let's take action to make the environment better for all people. Let's raise the tide.
Women, we must support and encourage one another just as much as we seek to right the horrible wrongs of sexual harassment. A healthy workplace will not be created if we just focus on gender disparity in all its hideous forms. For every O'Reilly, there are many more acts of micro-aggression that over time do just as much damage. This is not an issue of men vs. women. This is a human issue. Everyone needs to be a part of solving it. O'Reilly and others like him get away with this behavior because too many people, men and women, look the other way because they aren't directly impacted.
The workplace often lacks empathy, compassion, and true collaboration. That plays out in wage and promotion disparity, diverse representation at every level of a company, in products and product marketing, and in daily team dynamics. We need to stand side-by-side, men and women, roll up our sleeves, and solve problems together.
In-fighting and aggression doesn't solve anything; it makes everything worse for everyone—employees, employers, companies, shareholders, and customers. When we go to work tomorrow, let's take action to make the environment better for all people. Let's raise the tide.
9
Is it not true that the workplace should be about making money and not coddling people's feelings?
I think there's an awesome point here, something that was boiling in my mind as I read the comments and thought of my own comment. As the male in mid-management within a company that had a ton of fantastic female employees and even male managers who I believe had a respect for fairness, I think how a person hires or promotes still comes down to one significant bias: comfort level. When you're building this team, don't you want a bunch of people that you "get", a feel that you will be able to work well with this person? I think a lot of male decision-makers simply still feel uncomfortable around their female employees, especially if those females are clearly driven to seize your job at the next opportunity, particularly because you are that male, inferior pig. And yes, a lot of seemingly powerful men do have these fears, that underlying lack of confidence. Men simply connect with other males more easily, many are still trying to figure that female out. I think a lot of sexist jokes that come out are simply a feeble attempt by a man to gain some confidence around a woman. "Hey, don't you get it - I'm the guy in power here." I myself had stronger connections with many of the females at my former company, but I must say those were often mutual love-hate workplace relationships. The women knew I was getting paid more, that they would probably never get my job; and we would throw our hits at each other in an open, play-battle. It wasn't sexist, but there was antagonism.
It's a simple standard, one that our society should uphold but does not. That standard is that a woman should be safe. Safe at home, safe at work, safe at school and safe in her daily life. This standard seems so rational, so reasonable and yet it is violated everyday and everywhere that it should apply.
Everyone should embrace this standard and every man should uphold it. Too many men use their power over a woman rather than using their power for women. First, make women safe, then tell me what a man you are. Women don't need to be coddled, just safe, unassailed.
Everyone should embrace this standard and every man should uphold it. Too many men use their power over a woman rather than using their power for women. First, make women safe, then tell me what a man you are. Women don't need to be coddled, just safe, unassailed.
13
In parenting my daughter, I have always told her to be careful of old white guys. And I just asked her to read this article as more proof of what I have been telling her for 14 years now. But I wish the article has been more specific. The problem isn't corporations, it's the old white guys who run them. I encourage my daughter to be an entrepreneur or find some other way to make a living outside the corporate structure.
As minorities we all have the talk with our children about the police. We should also have the talk about old white guys.
As minorities we all have the talk with our children about the police. We should also have the talk about old white guys.
9
Nearly 100% of the crime in he last two cities we lived in was of the violent felony type committed by latino and black males. Minorities need to #RaiseBetterSons.
Bill o'Reilly and Roger Ailes practiced sexual extortion. Isn't extortion illegal in New York City? Why aren't we seeing criminal charges against either man?
10
I can't believe the NYT is still trotting out the long debunked gender wage gap stat. And I am a woman.
There is a difference between what you are paid and what you earn. I can PAY workers equally but if one chooses to put in fewer hours, produce less, take long voluntary gaps from the workplace and have frequent absences due to lifestyle choices, she will EARN less. That is not discrimination. It is the direct result of personal prioritization.
My business is not a charity. I pay my full share of taxes and i pay workers conmensurate with how much they produce. Some choose to produce lessand thus earn less.
There is a difference between what you are paid and what you earn. I can PAY workers equally but if one chooses to put in fewer hours, produce less, take long voluntary gaps from the workplace and have frequent absences due to lifestyle choices, she will EARN less. That is not discrimination. It is the direct result of personal prioritization.
My business is not a charity. I pay my full share of taxes and i pay workers conmensurate with how much they produce. Some choose to produce lessand thus earn less.
7
Thanks Kosher Dill for not toeing the party line.
You restore my faith in women!
You restore my faith in women!
This is forceful and impressive advocacy. But if you don't practice what you preach, your words are hollow. I would like to know where the NY Times stands in all of this. I have seen more women joining your top ranks, and females are 40% of your Masthead, if I did the math right. While that is still nor reflective of the population balance, it could be that it's a step up from ten years ago. What is your policy about equal pay; is there a gender discrepancy at the Times? How about promotions? Hiring practices? I would assume you have done some kind of analysis; will you share it?
8
The sheer fact that these 2 sexual predators were paid $65 million makes me gasp. This is like a reward for their gross and unacceptable behavior
That ANY woman still buys into the misogynistic culture literally baffles me. I urge you to respect yourself and separate yourself from this hating and demeaning culture.
That ANY woman still buys into the misogynistic culture literally baffles me. I urge you to respect yourself and separate yourself from this hating and demeaning culture.
10
That, Adam, would require all age females have their own separate country. An island, surrounding by man eating sharks. Even then, more than a few predators would parachute in.
There is a perfectly obvious correlation between right wing thought and female exploitation. Check any of the righty publications, websites, etc., and you will find a collection of features and ads using semi-dressed, buxom women. All those "shot at Walmart," and "the photographer never expected..." titilators mix with editorial attacks on substantive women. Rachel Maddow, Nancy Pelosi, Elizabeth Warren, et al take beatings regularly from the manly men of the right. Mix in the gun worship and you have a clear cut profile of an American phenomenon.
10
Take a look at the female staffers on network TV news shows: CBS: sleeveless dresses, flowing hairdos, and spike heels; NBC: sleeveless dresses, flowing hairdos, and spike heels; ABC: sleeveless dresses, flowing hairdos, and spike heels. Then check out your local TV weather staff. Pls explain how this uniformity is limited to right-wing media?
And how about the bizarre suggestive way women stand on the sports shows with tight dresses and legs miles apart. It isn't even a natural looking way to stand. Even my male friends comment how weird and purposeful that looks for male viewership of sports talk.
After decades of working in the broadcasting industry, I never made the salary of my male co-workers, even though I did the same work and always put in much more effort. I have witnessed and experienced disgraceful newsroom behavior many times. I'd love to believe things will improve for women in the workplace and the industry in general but I doubt it. When two men are rewarded with several million dollars as they exit, what kind of a message does that send?
221
I spent 19 years working in 7 TV newsrooms throughout the West , where I was screamed at by overpaid male anchors and received shamefully low wages compared to male co-workers. In one newsroom, my news director was allowed to have a mistress and a son with her, while keeping his job—and his wife. In another newsroom, a male journalist stood in front of me and slowly looked at my body from head to toe, undressing me with his eyes. If a woman had behaved as Roger Ailes and Bill O'Reilly have, she would be vilified instead of rewarded for leaving. This double standard in TV news really needs to be exposed and removed once and for all.
The same message we sent when we rewarded another of their kind with the presidency of the United States!
People don't realize that even with the laws that have been put in place, it is practically impossible for women to report sexual harassment in the workplace and expect anything good to come of it. Exhibit A: Bill O'Reilly exiting Fox News with tens of millions in Golden Parachute money. Meanwhile, the women he harassed still don't have jobs or are stuck wherever they were if they are lucky.
Women who report harassment by superiors find themselves ousted or at best, their careers get stalled. If the situation becomes public, she becomes virtually unemployable. Meanwhile, the man gets a slap on the wrist and continues to prosper, either at the same company or elsewhere. What woman in her right mind would report anything unless she thought she'd get such a huge payout she'd never have to work again? Because the odds are, she'll never be able to.
Women who report harassment by superiors find themselves ousted or at best, their careers get stalled. If the situation becomes public, she becomes virtually unemployable. Meanwhile, the man gets a slap on the wrist and continues to prosper, either at the same company or elsewhere. What woman in her right mind would report anything unless she thought she'd get such a huge payout she'd never have to work again? Because the odds are, she'll never be able to.
22
These are the same reasons that women have not been eager to report rapes, which expose them to social censure rather than support.
2
Elizabeth:
Practically impossible? Take the case at hand: Gretchen Carlson enjoyed a $20 million payday, and according to a New York Times investigation, O’Reilly and Fox have paid $13 million to settle complaints lodged by five women dating to 2002.
Practically impossible? Take the case at hand: Gretchen Carlson enjoyed a $20 million payday, and according to a New York Times investigation, O’Reilly and Fox have paid $13 million to settle complaints lodged by five women dating to 2002.
Coming up with one high-powered woman who did this successfully proves nothing. And see if you see those women on the air anyplace again.
The defining (negative) characteristics of American culture are greed, violence and hatred (there are many positives, but that is another story). These are all predominantly male matters.
Men are not born this way.
Young boys learn that the main criterion of success is wealth - the more you have, the more you are respected.
Young boys learn that violence is an acceptable response to personal or community affront.
Young boys learn that 'others' are responsible for personal or community ills - be they blacks, Muslims, gays, immigrants, or the poor.
The largest group of 'others' that men encounter, outside the home, are women.
Men are not born this way.
Young boys learn that the main criterion of success is wealth - the more you have, the more you are respected.
Young boys learn that violence is an acceptable response to personal or community affront.
Young boys learn that 'others' are responsible for personal or community ills - be they blacks, Muslims, gays, immigrants, or the poor.
The largest group of 'others' that men encounter, outside the home, are women.
103
Men created this problem, and on some level it will take enlightened men to help fix it. At least we have a good role model for that in Washington, right? Ugh.
68
Certainly many men need to change their behavior and way of thinking. But I also think some women should too. Women should stop seeing themselves as powerless victims, or whose only source of power is sexual. Women can be shrewd negotiators, assertive, and unwavering in getting what they want. Use your intelligence and don't be afraid to "act like a man".
As I read this article, I reflected back on my own experiences...as well as my victories. One small victory in particular makes me smile to this day: When I was in my early thirties, I needed to buy a car. Before I headed to the dealership, I did my homework regarding dealer cost, and had a shrewd plan for how I was going to structure the negotiations. At the dealership, the salesman thought I was going to be an easy profit. You see, I am a petite, young-looking female, easily mistaken for someone passive and not-too-bright. As expected, the salesman was patronizing and condescending, as they all are. During the negotiations, I was assertive, demanding, and unwavering, which took him completely by surprise. I outsmarted the salesman and took control of the deal. I got the car on MY terms.
Women need to recognize when they have power (intellectual, experiential), and use it to their advantage. They need to be shrewd, strategize like in a chess game, and fiercely negotiate for their interests. Even small victories are incredibly empowering, providing self confidence for the next male-dominated situation that comes up.
As I read this article, I reflected back on my own experiences...as well as my victories. One small victory in particular makes me smile to this day: When I was in my early thirties, I needed to buy a car. Before I headed to the dealership, I did my homework regarding dealer cost, and had a shrewd plan for how I was going to structure the negotiations. At the dealership, the salesman thought I was going to be an easy profit. You see, I am a petite, young-looking female, easily mistaken for someone passive and not-too-bright. As expected, the salesman was patronizing and condescending, as they all are. During the negotiations, I was assertive, demanding, and unwavering, which took him completely by surprise. I outsmarted the salesman and took control of the deal. I got the car on MY terms.
Women need to recognize when they have power (intellectual, experiential), and use it to their advantage. They need to be shrewd, strategize like in a chess game, and fiercely negotiate for their interests. Even small victories are incredibly empowering, providing self confidence for the next male-dominated situation that comes up.
22
Excuse me, but how far and how fast did your advice help African Americans and other minorities? Yes, you may need all those good behaviors and educational smarts but you can still be a VP and have the President press you for "favors."
The salesman cheated you anyways, I am sorry to say. And the imbalance of power in car buying negotiations -- at dealers, anyways -- is so vast and unfair, and tilted to the seller, that honestly nobody has a chance. Not men, not women, not older, not younger, not richer or poorer.
I recommend a very good (if outdated) book that spells the whole thing out -- "Don't Get Taken Every Time" by Remar Sutton.
I recommend a very good (if outdated) book that spells the whole thing out -- "Don't Get Taken Every Time" by Remar Sutton.
I'm all for women seizing and wielding power when it's possible to do so, but let's remember that some of us have more access to it than others, whether because we are white, highly educated, economically privileged, have a supportive family, etc. It's easy to encourage women to "lean in," but we have to remember that a good proportion of us are still having trouble getting a foot in the door in the first place. Institutional change needs to happen to cure that particular ill.
It is truly unbelievable to me-- women make up more than half of the population. Yet we make lackluster progress, at best.
Why is this? The blatant barriers (e.g., discrimination sand stereotyping) certainly exist. But there are many additional barriers-- namely, women's unwillingness to embrace and claim our own power. I have seen so many times where women have a choice to make a difference and have chosen to go the opposite way. Trump's election is a perfect case in point. Millions and millions voting against their own interests. Endorsing a candidate who openly behaves in an uncivil manner towards women without apologies. And appointed an overwhelmingly majority male cabinet to guide him. Trump supporting women should be up in arms, but where are they?? I think we can only assume that these women quietly support the status quo.
We need women to take on all the challenges of womanhood. This means we need to be able to support our families, lead in the workplace, and raise our children with grace. This is possible. But only if women are willing to drop their fear and start to insist that our whole society values our worth.
Why is this? The blatant barriers (e.g., discrimination sand stereotyping) certainly exist. But there are many additional barriers-- namely, women's unwillingness to embrace and claim our own power. I have seen so many times where women have a choice to make a difference and have chosen to go the opposite way. Trump's election is a perfect case in point. Millions and millions voting against their own interests. Endorsing a candidate who openly behaves in an uncivil manner towards women without apologies. And appointed an overwhelmingly majority male cabinet to guide him. Trump supporting women should be up in arms, but where are they?? I think we can only assume that these women quietly support the status quo.
We need women to take on all the challenges of womanhood. This means we need to be able to support our families, lead in the workplace, and raise our children with grace. This is possible. But only if women are willing to drop their fear and start to insist that our whole society values our worth.
17
Trump has only been around a few months! he didn't create this!
For many years, I have observed very smart, successful women -- with ample money and resources -- who achieve the highest educational success, get fantastic jobs (lawyers, doctors, engineers, scientists) and then QUIT to stay home and raise children. Then a decade later, they are gobsmacked that their careers have derailed and they can't make the same money as a man who stayed in the workforce all those years.
Or they go on the "mommy track" and ask for part time hours, to leave early to pick children up and so on.
Few of these women demand their husbands make these sacrifices to have children.
It is far more likely to see this behavior amongst the very affluent upper middle classes than the lower middle, working class or poor -- because they cannot afford to lose their 2nd incomes this way.
I actually PERSONALLY know women who went all through MEDICAL school, then quit being DOCTORS to stay home with their children. You cannot blame that on lack of money for child care!
For many years, I have observed very smart, successful women -- with ample money and resources -- who achieve the highest educational success, get fantastic jobs (lawyers, doctors, engineers, scientists) and then QUIT to stay home and raise children. Then a decade later, they are gobsmacked that their careers have derailed and they can't make the same money as a man who stayed in the workforce all those years.
Or they go on the "mommy track" and ask for part time hours, to leave early to pick children up and so on.
Few of these women demand their husbands make these sacrifices to have children.
It is far more likely to see this behavior amongst the very affluent upper middle classes than the lower middle, working class or poor -- because they cannot afford to lose their 2nd incomes this way.
I actually PERSONALLY know women who went all through MEDICAL school, then quit being DOCTORS to stay home with their children. You cannot blame that on lack of money for child care!
Completely agree. These women are complicit because they want their cake and eat it too. They are eroding our possibilities of success because they cannot embrace their own power, question norms and carve a better way forward. So wracked by guilt for not upholding some ridiculous male standard of what it means to be a mother or wife. They sacrifice everything to meet that picture and then wonder why we are where we are. a
The only way to ensure equality for women is to get it written into the Constitution. We've formed an ERA Action Team in Maine; Nevada has already ratified the ERA; it's time for other states to get on board. Shamefully, we are the only Western nation that does not guarantee equality to women and recognize them as equal to men in every sphere of activity, yet 80% of Americans believe that women already have equal rights. Time to get everyone excited about passing the Equal Rights Amendment and get it into our Constitution.
I read this article and thought, well, I'm happy that my employer doesn't have this problem--when gender based harassment is brought to our attention, we act; we recently spent significant sums to train all employees in anti-harassment law.
Then I reached the part about pay equity. And thought about a recent analysis of salaries I performed showed that my employer has, for many years, paid jobs that are more typically held by men more than those typically held by women. When men promote, their new titles typically come with a larger raise than those that women promote to. And this is in a union environment, where a contract and salary schedule dictate pay.
And then I thought about my own situation: when my prior boss left, the higher ups never even considered me to succeed him, in spite of the fact that I had two advanced degrees, including a law degree from a top five law school. They brought in someone who had only a BA, paid him more than his predecessor, and have since increased his salary by 14 percent to my six percent. He oversees my division, and routinely takes the work I do and presents it as his own. And I say nothing about it, because of three factors:
I know that is what his higher ups want;
If I address it, they will not change it, but will instead get annoyed at me for "rocking the boat;" or, worst of all,
they will tell me all the reasons they believe he is better suited for the job than I am.
So I say nothing, and the problem continues.
Then I reached the part about pay equity. And thought about a recent analysis of salaries I performed showed that my employer has, for many years, paid jobs that are more typically held by men more than those typically held by women. When men promote, their new titles typically come with a larger raise than those that women promote to. And this is in a union environment, where a contract and salary schedule dictate pay.
And then I thought about my own situation: when my prior boss left, the higher ups never even considered me to succeed him, in spite of the fact that I had two advanced degrees, including a law degree from a top five law school. They brought in someone who had only a BA, paid him more than his predecessor, and have since increased his salary by 14 percent to my six percent. He oversees my division, and routinely takes the work I do and presents it as his own. And I say nothing about it, because of three factors:
I know that is what his higher ups want;
If I address it, they will not change it, but will instead get annoyed at me for "rocking the boat;" or, worst of all,
they will tell me all the reasons they believe he is better suited for the job than I am.
So I say nothing, and the problem continues.
It certainly is exhausting to read another analysis of this--a good analysis but this is really getting old. I think we all know the data by now. And many of us (women) have lived this story--worked through it, gone to school with it, been denied opportunities and, of course, pay, because of it, been mistreated and even abused, then finally retired and are still seeing it every day.
Can we stipulate this as fact, for now, and see more stories about the causes of this--deep-rooted misogyny, dominating patriarchy, and the oppression of women by men (and by women who "benefit" from this culture)? Perhaps throw in what the political scene contributes--go through the history of union busting, court decisions, laws that have tried to help (Lily Ledbetter), and which politicians and parties have been the actors there. I see this as the only way people will see what has happened here, in terms of policy, and who's responsible.
Can we stipulate this as fact, for now, and see more stories about the causes of this--deep-rooted misogyny, dominating patriarchy, and the oppression of women by men (and by women who "benefit" from this culture)? Perhaps throw in what the political scene contributes--go through the history of union busting, court decisions, laws that have tried to help (Lily Ledbetter), and which politicians and parties have been the actors there. I see this as the only way people will see what has happened here, in terms of policy, and who's responsible.
15
It's not an accident that nearly every woman on Fox seems to be outfitted in a tight dress and heels. It may not be official company policy that this is the uniform for women, but it sure looks like it is strongly encouraged - at the very least. And this speaks to how the network views women generally, as pretty things for men to enjoy. And I'm not saying women are culpable for dressing this way, I'm simply saying it shouldn't be required/strongly encouraged to get ahead.
23
Not just on Fox,either. I've often wondered why the women anchors of the morning shows are often in dresses that look better suited for a night on the town. How is it that they are frequently sleeveless when their male counterparts are in shirts with a suit jacket on top? How can that be when it's always the women that are cold anyplace I seem to go....home, work, restaurants.....how can these anchors be comfortable in less than half the clothes that their male co-workers are wearing? That tells me it's not logical.
1
Really? it's just Fox? look on local news channels. It is almost always a pretty, thin, young blonde in tight dresses who is accompanied by a distinguished older man in a suit. In fact, I've never seen it any other way -- have you ever seen the news delivered by some pretty-boy hottie and accompanied by a serious, older woman in a pantsuit?
They all do it. Look at Nora O'donnell on CBS in her tight jellybean dresses or CNN's females in sleeveless cocktail dresses in the dead of winter to anchor or appear on "news" programs. Their evening female host sits at a clear table with hemlines practically to her crotch. As a woman I despair.
The skin shown is in inverse proportion to brainpower. Christiane Amanpour dresses professionally, one notes. She doesn't have to distract anyone with thighs and cleavage.
The skin shown is in inverse proportion to brainpower. Christiane Amanpour dresses professionally, one notes. She doesn't have to distract anyone with thighs and cleavage.
One would hope that Fox has learned lessons on fostering a fair and abuse free environment. O'Reilly was clearly a talented super star at Fox and his bosses should have warned him when the first complain of sexual harassment came up several tears ago. Instead Fox has been paying off those who complained based on a cost benefit ratio. As O'Reilly became more and more successful in terms of ratings and revenues and so did Fox along with him, the need for ensuring a decent work place withered away. In future Fox and other networks and corporations should pay close attention to the inner workings of their work place and should strive to be receptive to the concerns of all its employees and handle sexual harassment as well as professional jealousies with utmost care.
4
The Trump election cleared the situation for this man, decisively: as long as women, women, vote as they do their issues aired here will remain issues. Women defeated the equal rights amendment. Women elected Trump. Evidently, many many women are content with or prefer the way the game is played. So be it.
8
Here are the facts: White women voted for Trump by 53%. All women voted 54% for Clinton. This comment manages to hit the trifecta: misogynist, racist, and victim-blaming. It is true that some women "play the game" by tearing down other women (Maureen Dowd at this newspaper is a prime example), but the women's march, the town halls that helped defeat the AHCA and are continuing to hold politicians accountable, and the growing resistance around the country, all of which has been organized, led, and supported mainly by women, tell a different story. Emily's List reported that, in 2016, they received 900 inquiries from women about running for office. In the first three months of this year, they have already received 11,000 such inquiries. We are not going away, and we will not be silent. Get used to it.
Im a progressive, always Dem-viting woman and i feel the same. I have done very well for myself in the business world and am no longer going to worry about the dolts whose votes have given Repugs a lock on governance & legislation at the local, state and fed levels.
Going to enjoy my coming lower tax bill & book some Viking River Cruises. I'm out of energy for trying to sway the stubbornly ignorant.
Going to enjoy my coming lower tax bill & book some Viking River Cruises. I'm out of energy for trying to sway the stubbornly ignorant.
The gender pay gap is another piece of urban mythology, when factors like time off for child rearing are taken account it disappears. And I would like to see the raw evidence of a male kindergarten teacher being paid more than a female kindergarten teacher in the same school system. Teacher's unions make sure that the any pay discrepancy can be explained by experience (i.e., longevity), not gender or performance.
And, for all these women now complaining of being harassed by O'Reilly or particularly Roger Ailes, how many more knowingly used their sexuality to secure the sorts of positions they sought? And wouldn't have had it any other way? Is the real objection to quid pro quo sexual harassment that it excludes less attractive women? Women have always used their sexual attractiveness to get what they want. Some women more successfully than others. And that's not likely to change just because feminist scolds say it should.
And, for all these women now complaining of being harassed by O'Reilly or particularly Roger Ailes, how many more knowingly used their sexuality to secure the sorts of positions they sought? And wouldn't have had it any other way? Is the real objection to quid pro quo sexual harassment that it excludes less attractive women? Women have always used their sexual attractiveness to get what they want. Some women more successfully than others. And that's not likely to change just because feminist scolds say it should.
7
In public union environments like public schools, this does NOT exist.
It would be exceeding rare in other private industry unions, as well.
The fact is, at graduation from college, women get the same money or even more than a male graduate does. And more women have degrees! but it is 10-15 years later that there is a HUGE split. Women take off to have children, and men do not -- THEY sacrifice, but their husbands and partners DO NOT.
Feminism promised me, 45 years ago, that my husband would do half the childcare and half the housework -- due to feminism of course! -- and that my employer would BEND OVER backwards to accommodate my needs (as a valuable, experienced worker) with flextime, part-time, job sharing and other practices.
I can hardly stop laughing now, just thinking about all that. FEMINISM LIED TO US.
It would be exceeding rare in other private industry unions, as well.
The fact is, at graduation from college, women get the same money or even more than a male graduate does. And more women have degrees! but it is 10-15 years later that there is a HUGE split. Women take off to have children, and men do not -- THEY sacrifice, but their husbands and partners DO NOT.
Feminism promised me, 45 years ago, that my husband would do half the childcare and half the housework -- due to feminism of course! -- and that my employer would BEND OVER backwards to accommodate my needs (as a valuable, experienced worker) with flextime, part-time, job sharing and other practices.
I can hardly stop laughing now, just thinking about all that. FEMINISM LIED TO US.
1
Forget about men for a moment. As a female worker, I have witness attractive young female co-workers who blatantly used their sexuality to attract the boss or supervisor -- who had affairs so they would get promoted (even if it meant boinking homely, fat older guys not unlike Trump) -- who laughed at the rest of us dull, ordinary, hardworking women who did not have the looks or youth to "market ourselves" as they could.
Nobody talks about the "sexual harassment" that comes to women who are considered UN-attractive -- I've been mocked at work for my age, for being a grandmother (at 46, the first time) -- for not being beautiful or wearing makeup, dresses, high heels.
Do you think I can sue over that?
Nobody talks about the "sexual harassment" that comes to women who are considered UN-attractive -- I've been mocked at work for my age, for being a grandmother (at 46, the first time) -- for not being beautiful or wearing makeup, dresses, high heels.
Do you think I can sue over that?
It was all OK until the advertisers got worried. That's what bothers me the most in today's America. Nothing gets done until "business" is unhappy. Case in point: the backlash against Pence's "Religious Freedom" legislation in Indiana. Indiana lawmakers thumbed their noses at everyday citizens who opposed this legislation but once the "business community" registered its objection and started boycotting the state they were falling all over themselves to "fix" the law.
And all of these advertisers who are now so offended have been supporting Fox News for years. It's hard for me to see how O'Reilly's behavior has suddenly become a bridge too far. Fox has been displaying misogyny, racial discrimination, and outright hate for decades. Did they not notice that?
And all of these advertisers who are now so offended have been supporting Fox News for years. It's hard for me to see how O'Reilly's behavior has suddenly become a bridge too far. Fox has been displaying misogyny, racial discrimination, and outright hate for decades. Did they not notice that?
28
So now this is front page everyday.
This happens to both men and women, so let's be fair here. It's also much less common than it was.
I would also dare say that it's a slippery slope as to whom is actually guilty as these accusers often have paydays in mind.
This happens to both men and women, so let's be fair here. It's also much less common than it was.
I would also dare say that it's a slippery slope as to whom is actually guilty as these accusers often have paydays in mind.
6
"Unions are needed". Of course they are. It was unions that broke the "gilded age" barons from finding ways to create virtual slavery--overpriced housing, overpriced company store, wages paid in useless scrip, good only for the housing and store, and teams of thugs to prevent workers leaving their artificial "debts" behind. THAT was union-free industrial America! "I owe my soul to the company store!" goes the song Sixteen Tons.
Yet union-busting and paint labor unions as in league with Satan has been the most consistent Republican meme for the last 36 years, since Ronald Reagan decided the allowing planes full of passengers to crash, for air travel to become dangerous and draconionly slow was a small price to pay to NOT have to address the air-traffic controllers' valid reasons for striking: THEY knew they were over-worked and were putting planes at risked and they cared enough to try to fix it. Reagan saw only an "illegal" strike and fired every one of them, setting our nation's air safety back at least a decade.
He then went on to sign tax loopholes that encouraged companies to move manufacturing off-shore, undercutting far more unions. Remember the jingle "Look for the Union label" by the International Ladies Garment Workers Union? It was dissolved in 1995 having once had a half-million members, but Reagan encouraged the clothing companies to have underpaid 3rd world workers do it. Ivanka does it.
The GOP killed the unions. Sexism is a by-product.
Yet union-busting and paint labor unions as in league with Satan has been the most consistent Republican meme for the last 36 years, since Ronald Reagan decided the allowing planes full of passengers to crash, for air travel to become dangerous and draconionly slow was a small price to pay to NOT have to address the air-traffic controllers' valid reasons for striking: THEY knew they were over-worked and were putting planes at risked and they cared enough to try to fix it. Reagan saw only an "illegal" strike and fired every one of them, setting our nation's air safety back at least a decade.
He then went on to sign tax loopholes that encouraged companies to move manufacturing off-shore, undercutting far more unions. Remember the jingle "Look for the Union label" by the International Ladies Garment Workers Union? It was dissolved in 1995 having once had a half-million members, but Reagan encouraged the clothing companies to have underpaid 3rd world workers do it. Ivanka does it.
The GOP killed the unions. Sexism is a by-product.
19
Blaming Reagan for all this is silly. It was CLINTON who sent jobs to Mexico with NAFTA.
Wanting to blame just one political party for this mess is why nothing ever gets done or changed.
Also: unions were deeply complicit in their own demise. The air controllers strike WAS illegal -- they had other options to bring their concerns to the public.
Wanting to blame just one political party for this mess is why nothing ever gets done or changed.
Also: unions were deeply complicit in their own demise. The air controllers strike WAS illegal -- they had other options to bring their concerns to the public.
Silly? Reagan started union busting. He started tax incentives for moving manufacturing off shore. George H.W. Bush negotiated NAFTA and Clinton completed it.
Keep living in your Fox bubble while the world comes down around all our ears.
Keep living in your Fox bubble while the world comes down around all our ears.
I sincerely wish someone would investigate the national security implications for a political propaganda outlet to be the main source of "news" for millions of citizens in a democracy. News media does indeed matter in a democracy. An uniformed or misinformed populace is a very dangerous one.
5
Yes, it's terrible that Bill O'Reilly was paid millions even after it was established that he was a predator. But at least he was fired. Even Lawrence Summers was fired from Harvard for making sexist remarks about the reasons for the shortage of women in science and math. But what about our current president who boasted on the microphone about his predatory skills and was still voted in? Also, I am so tired of the comment that women voted for Trump. Yes, but a SUBSTANTIALLY smaller proportion of women and a overwhelming proportion of minority women (who actually suffer the consequences of the wage gap in far greater magnitude) voted for him, so please spare us that constant taunt. Also - Charles from Mankato who states that the wage gap is a myth and asks why companies would not then overwhelmingly hire women instead of men if there is a wage gap has plagiarized from an equally stupid question in Quora.com. If this logic holds, then unemployment should always be zero because there will always be somebody who is willing to work for less. Market imperfections are way more complex than silly arguments like that. 99% of wage rates are administratively determined by managers (predominantly male) rather than determined by free markets.
8
In fairness, Trump was bragging to another (much younger) man in what he had reason to think was private -- it was taped illegally -- and it was 12 years ago. In all that time, no woman he bragged about EVER came forward to file rape or sexual harassment charges on Trump -- not one.
Vague accusations are not charges or indictments, let alone convictions for a CRIME. Being a braggart or a jerk is not a crime.
Vague accusations are not charges or indictments, let alone convictions for a CRIME. Being a braggart or a jerk is not a crime.
The payout says it all. $65 million to two men (where there's at least enough evidence to remove them) and $20 million to the women who were harassed. Nothing more need be said about inequality.
31
It's sad to see the NYTimes still trotting out the sketchy canard of the 22 percent less per hour for women workers statistic. The linked infographic on the "Economic Policy Institute" website (can't we have a link to a peer-reviewed article rather than an advocacy group's "analysis"?) does NOT indicate that women's wages are 22 percent lower after controlling both BOTH education and job type. Instead, it shows the difference in wages after controlling for one, and then the difference after controlling for the other. The obvious question (and scientifically accurate method...) is what happens when you simultaneously control for all factors that make men and women different? After all, the population is not split only by single characteristics. Why are you hiding this information? A very clever piece of trickery.
12
Exactly. That stat has been debunked for years. Why does Dean Baquet still allow its use?
The fed's own CONSAD report says real gender pay gap is tiny and is attributable to personal lifestyle choices.
I outearn my male colleagues by far. Because I'm a smart, effective and reliable manager not constantly asking for special accommodations and without huge voluntary gaps in my work continuity.
The fed's own CONSAD report says real gender pay gap is tiny and is attributable to personal lifestyle choices.
I outearn my male colleagues by far. Because I'm a smart, effective and reliable manager not constantly asking for special accommodations and without huge voluntary gaps in my work continuity.
1
It's clever sophistry alright. It is comparing apples and oranges -- a woman who has taken a lower paying job, out of personal preference (social work vs. finance) and then taken a decade out of the work force to raise her children. -- and comparing that to a man in a tech field who has worked continuously from age 22 or 23 with NO breaks or absences.
It is far fairer to compare people in the same field, with the same years of experience and if you do so -- women only earn about 1-2% less. We've closed a really extraordinary gap in 40 years! That's to be applauded, not dismissed.
It is far fairer to compare people in the same field, with the same years of experience and if you do so -- women only earn about 1-2% less. We've closed a really extraordinary gap in 40 years! That's to be applauded, not dismissed.
I believe it was Eleanor Roosevelt who said that there is nothing men hate more than a woman in a position of power. The last presidential election proves without a doubt how right she was. People preferred a crazy, ignorant boor like El Trumpo over a most qualified, seasoned candidate, like Ms. Clinton, just because she was a woman. Pathetic.
38
Mrs. Clinton's only qualifications -- her entire life -- were built on favoritism she got from being married to her very successful husband. She's NEVER once gotten a real job on her own merits -- never. Her law career in Arkansas came directly from being married to the GOVERNOR of the State. She was First Lady because....Bill. She became a Senator because...First Lady. She ran for POTUS because she was handed a Senator's job (*in a state she had never lived in!) and she ran for POTUS because...Bill, Senate, etc.
She's a brand at this point, and not a person. And she HAS NO QUALIFICATIONS. She's never held a real job that wasn't a patronage job.
Thank god, our President Trump has kicked her and her family into the dustbin of history.
She's a brand at this point, and not a person. And she HAS NO QUALIFICATIONS. She's never held a real job that wasn't a patronage job.
Thank god, our President Trump has kicked her and her family into the dustbin of history.
Lots of women voted for him too.
Maybe it's that her husband got where he did because of who he was married to? She did go to Wellesley and Yale Law School. Or do you think those acceptances were because of who she would marry in the future?
Your comment only exacerbates the problem of sexism.
Your comment only exacerbates the problem of sexism.
Oreilly ouster may have been justified but who is the arbiter of work place misconduct. The wives of Murdocks sons? Did they hear or allow Oreilly to respond to the allegations? Without a thorough review of the facts, oreilly could have had an actionable case of wrongful termination. I guess the 25m payout was the kicker here that he'll go away quietly and put this miserable chapter in his life behind him.
2
A huge impediment today is, of course, is the presence of the Crazy Man and the pictures of him on a daily surrounded by only men (in uniform). There is no female presence except that of a very young daughter who is a bigger money grabber than daddy. This is a hopeless situation for young women of today to even hope they can gain a foothold into the power sources. Even the churches only have males in power positions and they have no intention of changing. Hopeless.
10
"Very young daughter"? That would be Sasha or Malia Obama! Ivanka Trump Kushner is a 36 year old, married mother of three children. She is not "very young".
There is so much to consider here because there really is a problem, and even when everyone talks about it little changes. Some of us can recall the Mad Men world of male entitlements, but nowadays even a corporate swamp like Fox now has awareness of the issue despite mad old geezers like O'Reilly and Ailes.
The problem runs deep and starts early: developmental psychology has researched gender and elementary children separate themselves socially at a very early age, more prejudiced against the opposite sex than race or religion. Little boys may play with toy weapons, but little girls use relationships as weapons.
Women as adults seem to inhibit progress through their own spirited disagreements: the fractured failure of the Equal Rights Amendment in the 70s was televised; the recent election where over 50% of white women who knew about his history nevertheless voted for a proud, shameless, serial abuser of women because they did not like the woman candidate.
Within my own experiences as a working man for 40 years, I can honestly state that the very best supervisor I ever had was a woman. It was great. But using the same standards, it is also true that the very worst supervisor I have ever had was a woman. It was terrible.
The divisions
The problem runs deep and starts early: developmental psychology has researched gender and elementary children separate themselves socially at a very early age, more prejudiced against the opposite sex than race or religion. Little boys may play with toy weapons, but little girls use relationships as weapons.
Women as adults seem to inhibit progress through their own spirited disagreements: the fractured failure of the Equal Rights Amendment in the 70s was televised; the recent election where over 50% of white women who knew about his history nevertheless voted for a proud, shameless, serial abuser of women because they did not like the woman candidate.
Within my own experiences as a working man for 40 years, I can honestly state that the very best supervisor I ever had was a woman. It was great. But using the same standards, it is also true that the very worst supervisor I have ever had was a woman. It was terrible.
The divisions
Change will come when the abuses against women are viewed by the law as coercion towards violence.
Men are stuck in their realized role as drones and that Eve was the thinker and doer.
Men are stuck in their realized role as drones and that Eve was the thinker and doer.
1
Women have the power over men, but we do not know how to use it. Centuries ago, women forced men to stop war by refusing to work or have sex. If women want to force change in the workplace and elsewhere, we just have to join forces, come up with our plan, and carry it out on a huge scale. Women have the power. Men are like putty in our hands, girls, if we just realize it and make our demands that they treat us with respect and like human beings, not their subservient property. Join together and get the rights we deserve!
4
Tell me all about the vast power I hold, sir -- as a 61 year old woman, in a lookist, ageist society. I have ZERO power. I can't use sex (or withhold) sex as a threat, as a post-menopausal woman. I can't use my looks or youth as bargaining chips to get male attention or gaze.
I have ZERO power, and most of it is due to my age, not my gender.
I have ZERO power, and most of it is due to my age, not my gender.
Engineering is difficult. You spend a long time stretching your brain around all the math and concepts necessary, and then fight self-doubt in your creative efforts because a badly designed or built object has the potential to harm the users. You don't have the ego of a surgeon; they don't have the brain for all the math. Then add on that each day you get left out of key discussions, sneared at that you won't be able to 'cut the mustard', assured that you are exceptional because most of your kind can't do math, and bathed in an environment where speculating on a colleague's bra size is water cooler talk. This is why I am no longer an engineer. Day in and day out of fighting the good fight. Thank god thirty years have passed and my self proclaimed geek daughter is having an easier time of it.
5
I cannot answer for your personal experience, Blue State. But my husband is an engineer, and he's seen women engineers EAGERLY recruited by big companies to satisfy government requirements for "equal opportunity hiring". If anything, they get sweeter deals than the guys, because they are rarer.
He has, at least twice in his career, been REPLACED at a job -- laid off, then saw one or two women right out of college hired to do his job. Yes, it took TWO women to do what he did. They both ended up quitting before 3 years went by -- why? they decided engineering was too boring and dry a field, and quit high paying jobs with Fortune 100 (yes 100) corporations. Meanwhile, my husband did not get HIS job back -- why? over 50, might as well be invisible.
He has, at least twice in his career, been REPLACED at a job -- laid off, then saw one or two women right out of college hired to do his job. Yes, it took TWO women to do what he did. They both ended up quitting before 3 years went by -- why? they decided engineering was too boring and dry a field, and quit high paying jobs with Fortune 100 (yes 100) corporations. Meanwhile, my husband did not get HIS job back -- why? over 50, might as well be invisible.
How true that "exposing wrongdoing is no guarantee of change." Look who Fox put in O'Reilly's slot-none other than Tucker Carlson who is another insult to women.
4
Perhaps people should begin boycotting companies like Bergdorf Goodman, BMW, Toyota, Lincoln Center Theater & all other companies that advertise with online or in print with the New York Times since the do not practice what they preach about "Equal Pay".
2
Agree with earlier comment: sexual harassment and abuse is age old but the biggest legitimizers of it in our era were Bill and Hillary Clinton. Bill took advantage of an intern and Hillary pilloried her in the media, and the entire tenor shifted the country's discussion to a point where many people began to say "what's the big deal."
2
Nothing less than a humbling live apology from the entire Murdoch hierarchy (Rupert, James, and Lachlan) would begin to show a culture change at Fox News. It should be aired at 8pm on Monday night just before the beginning of the change over from O'Reilly to Tucker Carlson.
I'm a 70 year old one male history wonk. I believe that all men know deep down that women can do anything men can do - plus one - and it's the big one. We also know that if women ran the world guys like Paul Newman would have huge harems and the rest of us would have paid sex if we could afford it. The first deity was female. In the birthplace of civilization a female's rite of passage into womanhood was to wait outside the local Ishtar temple until a man, any man, paid her to have sex - not vice versa. Those temples, by the way, were also the first banks.This business of male superiority is just us men trying to convince ourselves 24/7 that most men are not redundant. We are. The only reason women need men is to make more women.
2
The comments on this straightforward editorial appear to prove that the most basic, most common, and most immovable hatred among humans is against women.
4
Three points to be made here..
1-Although great strides have been made against sexual harassment since 1980, Fox News proves it is still there if we don't stay vigilant.
2-Re the other points you made, equal pay, promotion etc., you are getting close to "playing the female card". It is one of the reasons Hillary lost the election. White women voted 53% against her not because they love to be discriminated against because they don't want to play the card meaning they don't want total complete equality in every minute facet of life because they are women. They want to earn it.
3-Last but not least you don't say anything about the other side of playing the female card ie using their sex to have men do their jobs, get more money and get promotions. It is more rampant than pure sexual harassment by men. Believe me I know. I saw it in my entire career. You are completely silent on it in this editorial....not a word.
1-Although great strides have been made against sexual harassment since 1980, Fox News proves it is still there if we don't stay vigilant.
2-Re the other points you made, equal pay, promotion etc., you are getting close to "playing the female card". It is one of the reasons Hillary lost the election. White women voted 53% against her not because they love to be discriminated against because they don't want to play the card meaning they don't want total complete equality in every minute facet of life because they are women. They want to earn it.
3-Last but not least you don't say anything about the other side of playing the female card ie using their sex to have men do their jobs, get more money and get promotions. It is more rampant than pure sexual harassment by men. Believe me I know. I saw it in my entire career. You are completely silent on it in this editorial....not a word.
2
Sadly men like Bill O'Reilly, Roger Ailes and Donald Trump are the problem with the antiquated perspective of the fairer sex. Analyzing conditions, what do these three men have in common?
They are men of financial wealth and privilege who fell emboldened to do as they please, yet not all men with these characteristics are chauvinist pigs. They are Caucasian though thankfully not all white men act like them. They are Republicans which I feel is more to the core of the concern.
Republican leadership in the Grand Old Party fails to politically define women as equals. The Equal Rights Amendment was first proposed in 1923 and garnered approval in both houses of Congress by 1972, then conservative activist Phyllis Schafly mobilized some women to believe the RA would disadvantage housewives. All sarcasm intended, housewives could not somehow stay married to their houses?
Conservative Republican leadership is the root of needlessly continuing patriarchal chauvinism. O'Reilly et al are merely modern by-products.
They are men of financial wealth and privilege who fell emboldened to do as they please, yet not all men with these characteristics are chauvinist pigs. They are Caucasian though thankfully not all white men act like them. They are Republicans which I feel is more to the core of the concern.
Republican leadership in the Grand Old Party fails to politically define women as equals. The Equal Rights Amendment was first proposed in 1923 and garnered approval in both houses of Congress by 1972, then conservative activist Phyllis Schafly mobilized some women to believe the RA would disadvantage housewives. All sarcasm intended, housewives could not somehow stay married to their houses?
Conservative Republican leadership is the root of needlessly continuing patriarchal chauvinism. O'Reilly et al are merely modern by-products.
1
In this editorial, the Times editor engages in misleading, deceptive use of the term "sexual abuse". The 2 categories of disadvantaged treatment that are described (paid less, promoted less) are not "sexual abuse" at all.
Nor even, are the O'Reilly accusations that I have thus far read really "sexual abuse". It cannot truly be sexual abuse unless some sexual activity takes place (even mere touching could be sufficient). Prior to actual sexual activity, the bad behavior could be harassment but not abuse.
This misuse of the phrase "sexual abuse" is an intentional effort to deceive and manipulate the reader or hearer. Misuse of the phrase has been a standard tactic of feminists for many years.
Nor even, are the O'Reilly accusations that I have thus far read really "sexual abuse". It cannot truly be sexual abuse unless some sexual activity takes place (even mere touching could be sufficient). Prior to actual sexual activity, the bad behavior could be harassment but not abuse.
This misuse of the phrase "sexual abuse" is an intentional effort to deceive and manipulate the reader or hearer. Misuse of the phrase has been a standard tactic of feminists for many years.
2
And the American people now have a President who thinks O'Reilly is "...a nice guy." Whoever coined the phrase "What goes around comes around" was mistaken - there are those who get away with reprehensible behavior and never look back - and with pockets bulging with cash. Sad...
1
Nice try NYT editorial board in trying to convince us the O'Reilly take down had anything to do with the treatment of women and wasn't a politically motivated mob hit.If the NYT and the activist groups that pressure advertisers were truly on a crusade to stamp out harassment and inequality the Clinton machine would have been gone a decade ago, or stopped in it's tracks altogether 25 years ago.Hollywood has been abusing women for a century,doling out parts according to looks and age, and to those who succumb to sexual coercion,not a word from the social justice warriors.
Are there any 60 year old matronly females long on experience but short on youthful looks holding down the anchor desk on any network news shows? The message from the NYT and the SJW's is basically this,ladies if you work for a man who we despise,or in an industry that is on our enemies list,we got your back,if you work for someone sympathetic to us,you're on your own.
Are there any 60 year old matronly females long on experience but short on youthful looks holding down the anchor desk on any network news shows? The message from the NYT and the SJW's is basically this,ladies if you work for a man who we despise,or in an industry that is on our enemies list,we got your back,if you work for someone sympathetic to us,you're on your own.
3
"SPEAK OUT AND THEN WHAT?"
In the case of those women who spoke out about Bill Clinton, they were publicly dragged through the mud by Hillary, George Stephanopoulos, etc.. No comfort or quarter given. Don't think that didn't set the tone for many, many years.
In the case of those women who spoke out about Bill Clinton, they were publicly dragged through the mud by Hillary, George Stephanopoulos, etc.. No comfort or quarter given. Don't think that didn't set the tone for many, many years.
3
No, they were dragged through the mud by the Republicans independent counsel, Ken Starr, who was recently fired by Baylor University for not mishandling several sexual assaults at the school.
3
That is bull. Give one example of Hillary Clinton or GS publicly dragging anyone though the mud. Besides, to begrudge any wife of saying anything negative about women who have affairs with their husbands, who they know are married, continues to put the onus on the wrong person. A woman has an affair with my husband when she knows he's married, you think I should be polite and quiet? Spare me. And we're not talking about consensual affairs anyway. We're talking about, in Trump's case, sexual assault (and Trump DID drag those women, and others, through the mud publicly - no outcry from the right, and I daresay you) and relentless unwanted advancements in the workplace.
It's just gross how many Americans no longer seem to possess critical thinking skills and in fact know know their you-know-whats from their elbows, never mind the difference between sexual assault, harassment, and consensual, legal, but immoral, affairs between adults.
It's just gross how many Americans no longer seem to possess critical thinking skills and in fact know know their you-know-whats from their elbows, never mind the difference between sexual assault, harassment, and consensual, legal, but immoral, affairs between adults.
Well, I guess women in the US should be grateful we're not yet in burkas, haven't had our feet maimed and bound in childhood to prevent us from running (though spike heels serve the same purpose ... see: Melania), haven't been stoned and murdered in public by a mob that includes our fathers and brothers because we were discovered to have had sex, haven't been subjected to female genital mutilation, usually haven't been denied elementary education by radical militias, haven't ... the list goes on.
Must say, I think that Donald Trump, Steve Bannon, Andrew Puzder, Roger Ailes, and Bill O'Reilly would LIKE to have all their women in burkas, so long as the outfits were skin-tight and fully veiled the gal's face, including her eyes.
So. How did Donald Trump get elected as president with the help of a substantial number (majority?) of white female voters?
Because all those voters are tired, tired of liberal complaints about sexism, inequitable pay, racism, gun violence, and climate change. Tired to the bone. They don't like gay marriage. They don't like legal safe abortions or, in fact, contraception for women. They think, "The New York Times Editorial Board has never visited my house. It doesn't know my town. It doesn't know my territory."
And many many women around the world assume this is how the world keeps turning. They have the babies. Men get the money.
It's a very old game.
Must say, I think that Donald Trump, Steve Bannon, Andrew Puzder, Roger Ailes, and Bill O'Reilly would LIKE to have all their women in burkas, so long as the outfits were skin-tight and fully veiled the gal's face, including her eyes.
So. How did Donald Trump get elected as president with the help of a substantial number (majority?) of white female voters?
Because all those voters are tired, tired of liberal complaints about sexism, inequitable pay, racism, gun violence, and climate change. Tired to the bone. They don't like gay marriage. They don't like legal safe abortions or, in fact, contraception for women. They think, "The New York Times Editorial Board has never visited my house. It doesn't know my town. It doesn't know my territory."
And many many women around the world assume this is how the world keeps turning. They have the babies. Men get the money.
It's a very old game.
1
Perhaps we are seeing the beginnings of the third wave of feminism. Phase one was mostly about getting the vote. Phase two sexual liberation made possible by the Pill ((and possibly Gunwald (sp?) v. Connecticut)), BroadBase higher education, Title IX, and other advances that changed society and enabled women to enter the workforce in large numbers. Phase three might be about human dignity, for that's what's lacking in the Fox story. But it won't happen with incremental steps involving equal pay, for instance. The evolution and advance of women owned and operated businesses might hold some answers. We need more. It has never been so easy to start and operate a business than it is today with so many business services offered through networks supported by the Internet. It's not a perfect solution but by first building up an economy that shields women from the predations of old school guys, we might be able to see faster change than by women continuing to participate in male dominated places. I realize this would constrain many people and possibly keep them from achieving their full potential but maybe not. As a practical exercise, embarking on such a path might set an example that's hard to ignore and create a momentum of its own.
53
"On average, women today make 22 percent less per hour than men, even after controlling for experience, education and location."
Did they also control for women with and without children? In over 25 years working at a large Fortune 20 company I've run into many very successful women, and they all had one thing in common - they either had no children, or had a partner willing to assume the primary care-giving role.
Did they also control for women with and without children? In over 25 years working at a large Fortune 20 company I've run into many very successful women, and they all had one thing in common - they either had no children, or had a partner willing to assume the primary care-giving role.
1
There are three things in American life today that are not just wrong but unfathomable:
1) The presence of Donald Trump in the office of President of the United States
2) Widespread acceptance of the gun culture, even after Sandy Hook
3) Unequal pay for equal work, based on sex
We're bound to disagree about some things -- but those?
http://thefamilyproperty.blogspot.jp/
1) The presence of Donald Trump in the office of President of the United States
2) Widespread acceptance of the gun culture, even after Sandy Hook
3) Unequal pay for equal work, based on sex
We're bound to disagree about some things -- but those?
http://thefamilyproperty.blogspot.jp/
When Times reporter Emily Steel wrote about O'Reilly embellishment of his coverage of the Falklands war, he supposedly said to her, "I'm coming after you with everything that I have. You can take that as a threat."
In a twist of irony, Emily Steele was the co-author of the Times story on Fox News' sexual harassment settlement involving O'Reilly which proved to be the beginning of the end for him at Fox News.
Steel reported and Fox News decided to let him go.
Bravo Emily!
In a twist of irony, Emily Steele was the co-author of the Times story on Fox News' sexual harassment settlement involving O'Reilly which proved to be the beginning of the end for him at Fox News.
Steel reported and Fox News decided to let him go.
Bravo Emily!
2
This is not going to be a popular comment!
Men suffer harassment too. Even sexual harassment. Men generally accept the idea that abusive interactions are normal and essential to being men. Men abuse each other, just as they abuse women. Men make "jokes" about other men's sexual "equipment". Men make "jokes" about other men's power.
They can't believe women should have freedom from harassment because they have to put up with it whenever they are with other men. We live in a culture in which everyone puts up with "joking" insults.
Women are vulnerable and have begun to speak out. But men don't dare speak out about their own suffering. Why is insult the default interaction here in America? That's a long long long study.
Men suffer harassment too. Even sexual harassment. Men generally accept the idea that abusive interactions are normal and essential to being men. Men abuse each other, just as they abuse women. Men make "jokes" about other men's sexual "equipment". Men make "jokes" about other men's power.
They can't believe women should have freedom from harassment because they have to put up with it whenever they are with other men. We live in a culture in which everyone puts up with "joking" insults.
Women are vulnerable and have begun to speak out. But men don't dare speak out about their own suffering. Why is insult the default interaction here in America? That's a long long long study.
1
"PAID LESS FOR BEING FEMALE"
Do men and women do exactly the same jobs?
Where I live, 'Pay Equity' has been on the books for over 30 years, i.e. people DOING THE SAME JOB have to be paid the same. In fact men and women in aggregate don't do the same jobs. This is a simple stat that Feminists never bother to talk about as it is a 'fact' that diminishes their argument.
So, for instance, should the female doing office work for a coal company be 'paid the same' and the male who goes down into the mine? And is the coal company discriminating against women by refusing to hire them as coal miners? Or is it that very few women want to work as coal miners?
Of course all this is very easily swept away if you assume there is the vast cloud of "misogyny" hanging over the entire economy as does the editorial board.
Do men and women do exactly the same jobs?
Where I live, 'Pay Equity' has been on the books for over 30 years, i.e. people DOING THE SAME JOB have to be paid the same. In fact men and women in aggregate don't do the same jobs. This is a simple stat that Feminists never bother to talk about as it is a 'fact' that diminishes their argument.
So, for instance, should the female doing office work for a coal company be 'paid the same' and the male who goes down into the mine? And is the coal company discriminating against women by refusing to hire them as coal miners? Or is it that very few women want to work as coal miners?
Of course all this is very easily swept away if you assume there is the vast cloud of "misogyny" hanging over the entire economy as does the editorial board.
4
Equal pay for equal work has nothing to do with feminism. Goodness, what a misunderstanding of the simple facts of inequality.
3
on-line reader...agree.........while sexual harassment is still a on going very serious problem as evidenced by Fox News, the "total equality" between male and female is a debatable topic ie approaching playing the female card...ie I am female so thus I should be given everything a man has.
Also, the editorial board writes nothing about women using their sex to get ahead, ie...to get men to do their work, raises, promotions etc.
Also, the editorial board writes nothing about women using their sex to get ahead, ie...to get men to do their work, raises, promotions etc.
1
I'm sorry but that is such a tone-deaf man thing to say, about an experience you couldn't possibly understand if you've never experienced it. There are women, yes, who use sex to get ahead. I've seen it over long years of my working life. It's disgusting. I don't believe that gives a pass to the facts and that was way more prevalent in the 60s, 70s and 80s and as things have equalized a lot and lawsuits have been filed, famous ones over inequality in pay with some serious money being paid out, it has improved. But where the job is not one that carries much power, it hasn't changed much. Maybe the editorial board didn't write about women using their sex to get ahead because it's not nearly as prevalent and doesn't entail nearly as many jobs as some terribly uninformed, sorry, mostly men like to think. It equates well to thinking Trump would make a good president because some think that sorry thing he calls doing business, which many of us see as grifting in his case, would qualify him for anything other than the predatory ogre he is. I'd suggest gathering a lot more information about what actually happens and what has happened over a very long period of time before making such a ridiculous comment. There are always exceptions to the rule of the discussion at hand but that doesn't make them worthy of an aha moment. It's tantamount to the raging Republican war on voter fraud, that barely existing thing that seems to be infracted most of all by Republicans.
1
An undercurrent in the trend for male executives to be viewed as more valuable is that they tend to be more judgmental and ruthless in business whereas women tend to be more contemplative and consensus builders. Stock traders want outsized returns and demand ruthlessness to get them. They don't think that women can deliver.
1
Harassment and discrimination are against the law same as breaking into someones house. The problem I see is if I break into someones house I go to jail, if I harass them I pay a penalty. In this case Mr. Ailes and Mr. O’Reilly should go to jail, instead they both got lots of money along with the women who were harassed courtesy of FOX. The justice system should be changed here, when I hear about harassment the first thing I think of is making a case to get money.
1
It seems many readers this morning aren't aware of the fact the women who are coming forth now that O'Reilly can't cost them their jobs have not filed suits for compensation. And even the ones who did, like Carlson, did not get as much for their grievance as O'Reilly did to leave. Part of justice is some kind of compensation for the grievance. If you don't like it, you might like it even less were that removed. Hit people in the pocketbook has always been a great way to see justice carried out. Hit them where it always hurts.
3
Agree Thomas...Fox News is reverting back to pay the victim off but continue the crime.
It has pretty much ended with sexual harassment in general since 1980 but every now and then you see its' ugly head reared as with Fox News.
The pay the victim off but continue the crime is rampant now with age discrimination....
It has pretty much ended with sexual harassment in general since 1980 but every now and then you see its' ugly head reared as with Fox News.
The pay the victim off but continue the crime is rampant now with age discrimination....
2
It seems the editorial board should be doing more than just reporting on a problem. Same with their stable of commentators, Brooks, Egan, Cohen and a half-dozen more -- liked and respected all. But you all report, while I look to the NYT for a different quality of leadership.
This is about quality, innocence, and intimacy; about inadequate breadth in most-fundamental learning, thus with narrowness in one's *way of being* with self and others. How so?
We all share a fundamental preference in behavior, but there are two types of preference, our earliest learned being copied/emulated (thus hierarchy-premised) quality followed by questioning quality (thus equalitarian-established opposed learning). Universally, this is how we better fund. quality, how we become leaders more than followers, authenticity occurring through fleshing out opposed learning.
Yes, I am sorry; we need to mature; the problem is us! The NYT needs to start leading, stop being part of the problem with not yet balanced learning. Discuss/question equality, how we found it. Become your own authority, and your philosophy will change/evolve from earlier years.
Identify our processes, fund. values. Answers come through individuals, not academia, come through e-e (not h-p) learning. Increasingly, violence fits less, no longer useful. Other cultures ask questions. Ditto ISIS, Israel too.
New York Times: Be leaders, not followers. Costs go down, not up. It is all relative, and you can do it.
This is about quality, innocence, and intimacy; about inadequate breadth in most-fundamental learning, thus with narrowness in one's *way of being* with self and others. How so?
We all share a fundamental preference in behavior, but there are two types of preference, our earliest learned being copied/emulated (thus hierarchy-premised) quality followed by questioning quality (thus equalitarian-established opposed learning). Universally, this is how we better fund. quality, how we become leaders more than followers, authenticity occurring through fleshing out opposed learning.
Yes, I am sorry; we need to mature; the problem is us! The NYT needs to start leading, stop being part of the problem with not yet balanced learning. Discuss/question equality, how we found it. Become your own authority, and your philosophy will change/evolve from earlier years.
Identify our processes, fund. values. Answers come through individuals, not academia, come through e-e (not h-p) learning. Increasingly, violence fits less, no longer useful. Other cultures ask questions. Ditto ISIS, Israel too.
New York Times: Be leaders, not followers. Costs go down, not up. It is all relative, and you can do it.
"In all, the company has paid at least $85 million to resolve sexual abuse scandals involving Mr, Ailes and Mr. O'Reilly. Of that sum, at least $65 million went to the two men, in the form of exit pay."
That's Fox "News" for you: "Fair and Balanced".
That's Fox "News" for you: "Fair and Balanced".
The scandal is the corporate leaders here as well. They should be held culpable and subject to termination or penalties for inadequate management. They are throwing the stockholders money away with no consequence to themselves. And women should be paid the same as men but it is more than sexual harassment that leads to that situation. Women have more to do that just show up for work.
The sexual harassment inflicted on women by both O'Reilly and of Roger Ailes before him have nothing in common with the more general problem of sexual harassment that women face in the workplace. The actions of O'Reilly and Ailes are in a category of their own. And that is men, in particular older men, with power, who use their positions in the workplace to try to sexually harass younger women who in real life they would stand no chance of ever getting to interact in a sexual context.
On the other hand, basic harassment of a sexual nature that goes on in the workplace is not much different than the same type of harassment that women undergo in all sorts of setting where men are present, such as in bars or at parties and basically any setting where they are mixing with men.
So the former type of sexual harassment, which is by older men trying to use their power in the workplace to sexually interact with younger and attractive women is unique and limited to the workplace. However sexual harassment in general is based simply on men harassing women because they have the opportunity to do so because they are sharing a common environment.
And since the basis of this type of harassment is men behaving badly, women can employ the same strategies they do to defend themselves against crude and bad behavior by men regardless of the precise circumstances in which that behavior is taking place,
On the other hand, basic harassment of a sexual nature that goes on in the workplace is not much different than the same type of harassment that women undergo in all sorts of setting where men are present, such as in bars or at parties and basically any setting where they are mixing with men.
So the former type of sexual harassment, which is by older men trying to use their power in the workplace to sexually interact with younger and attractive women is unique and limited to the workplace. However sexual harassment in general is based simply on men harassing women because they have the opportunity to do so because they are sharing a common environment.
And since the basis of this type of harassment is men behaving badly, women can employ the same strategies they do to defend themselves against crude and bad behavior by men regardless of the precise circumstances in which that behavior is taking place,
1
In my already long life there has never been a more discouraging and upsetting cascade of horrors to encounter every single new day than has begun its spilling since Trump entered the White House as the president of the U.S. I can barely make myself type those words. Across the board, the U.S. is now in a state of degrading devolution, with Trump's appointees chosen because they want to eliminate the agencies they head, the AG wants to drag the U.S. back to a head and master state of mind with women taking their proper places at home in the kitchen, barefoot and pregnant and social advances turned back at least to the 1950s and maybe even the 1850s. And then done with the help of women who will be hurt most of all by these attitudes and actions. The U.S. is doomed. There's a reason we get old and finally die. Who needs this.
10
I read somewhere recently that the disrespect of the Earth is a manifestation of the disrespect of the Feminine, which also manifests as disrespect of women. I do get tired of reading what seems to be an endless stream of complaints, and it would be easy to turn away from all of it. However -- what if it's true?
Everyone, all of us, contain within ourselves both masculine and feminine. To harm the Feminine is to harm an essential part of who we each are, male or female. Turning away from this amounts to a form of suicide.
Everyone, all of us, contain within ourselves both masculine and feminine. To harm the Feminine is to harm an essential part of who we each are, male or female. Turning away from this amounts to a form of suicide.
8
And here we are in 2017 still fighting this crap. People think it is better, but it really is not. It is still the 'good old boys club.' We need stronger female leaders to speak up about this. We need less "our word against theirs" and more of what's right and wrong. And boy there is a lot of wrong still.
21
One very strong woman, Hillary Clinton, was taken down by forces resisting change. Even many in the Democratic party were swayed by the lies and vitriol during the election. It was spirit crushing; our country is not what I thought it was.
2
You say:
" In all, the company has paid at least $85 million to resolve sexual abuse scandals involving Mr. Ailes and Mr. O’Reilly. Of that sum, as much as $65 million went to the two men, in the form of exit pay. That’s not deterrence, let alone true accountability. "
We would go further, saying that in fact - through all these years - advertisers have in effect been subsidizing this well-known work climate at Faux Noise; and the climate won't get appreciably better there, as long as they don't cover the blaring news their own personnel are making.
We'll no doubt shortly get to see which companies actually follow their vaunted mission statements and corporate ethics policies, when we see where The Factor host lands next, won't we ?
" In all, the company has paid at least $85 million to resolve sexual abuse scandals involving Mr. Ailes and Mr. O’Reilly. Of that sum, as much as $65 million went to the two men, in the form of exit pay. That’s not deterrence, let alone true accountability. "
We would go further, saying that in fact - through all these years - advertisers have in effect been subsidizing this well-known work climate at Faux Noise; and the climate won't get appreciably better there, as long as they don't cover the blaring news their own personnel are making.
We'll no doubt shortly get to see which companies actually follow their vaunted mission statements and corporate ethics policies, when we see where The Factor host lands next, won't we ?
15
All men are loathsome all women helpless
My kingdom for a horse
My kingdom for a horse
8
No point in making sense, eh?
5
No point in ignoring sense.
Makes about as much sense as the article itself.
This topic is tiresome.
This topic is tiresome.
The basic, simple 'no spin' points:
- Fox News paid more to the harassers than the harassed
- Fox News encouraged the harassers by not dealing with the issue
- Fox and Friends have yet to apologize publicly for the evil they allowed.
Murdoch and clan became rich through a dirty, filthy, enterprise -- and they have yet to acknowledge their evil. Yet Fox News and Bill O'Reilly defend "family values." Some family. Some values.
- Fox News paid more to the harassers than the harassed
- Fox News encouraged the harassers by not dealing with the issue
- Fox and Friends have yet to apologize publicly for the evil they allowed.
Murdoch and clan became rich through a dirty, filthy, enterprise -- and they have yet to acknowledge their evil. Yet Fox News and Bill O'Reilly defend "family values." Some family. Some values.
89
No family without women. Lysestrsta please.
The US obviously has a very significant and vocal faction of people who see bullying as an essential virtue.
36
When the Hollywood tape exploded onto the scene I recall numerous interviews with women, trump supporters, older women, in working/middle class America: get over it, they said; toughen up, they said; get a thicker skin, they said. Why? Is it a reflection of these women being somehow "left behind", never feeling they had the power or the support they needed to take a stance? Something besides "trump the great businessman will save us" is going on. And so much focus post-election has been on white working class men....women being left behind again?
24
For girls and women to keep moving that rock uphill, we are in the place now where a lot of women will have to not just raise better sons but also call out their fathers, husbands, brothers, uncles, neighbors, co-workers, priest and preachers.
T'aint gonna happen. Men know this. That's why little has changed for many middle and lower income women who cannot economically and psychologically afford to escape the suffocating straightjacket they were born into, one that seems utterly controlled by a phalanx of toxic men who see them solely as inferior free housekeepers and baby machines. There are plenty of those males and females on both sides of the political spectrum in America, which is why we need to Venn Diagram the underlying common reasons for this sick, dangerous country the U.S. continues to be for all females, cradle to grave.
T'aint gonna happen. Men know this. That's why little has changed for many middle and lower income women who cannot economically and psychologically afford to escape the suffocating straightjacket they were born into, one that seems utterly controlled by a phalanx of toxic men who see them solely as inferior free housekeepers and baby machines. There are plenty of those males and females on both sides of the political spectrum in America, which is why we need to Venn Diagram the underlying common reasons for this sick, dangerous country the U.S. continues to be for all females, cradle to grave.
79
A great point! Thank for articulating what so many women know, but can't express.
NYT Editorials while I'm mostly in agreement lack rigor, documentation, betray laziness or maybe a certain insouciance for facts. I must say this is a truly outstanding editorial replete with facts. The bottom line is well referenced: it is a financial disaster even now to be a woman despite equal competence with any man.
14
"On average, women today make 22 percent less per hour than men, even after controlling for experience, education and location."
What is the Times's source for this? Studies I have seen show numbers more like 9 percent.
What is the Times's source for this? Studies I have seen show numbers more like 9 percent.
3
Ok, step up and show your studies. Where are they?
Hillary paid women less. So does Warren. Women heal thyselves, then start carping about others.
7
As per 'amanda' above, where's your evidence? Stand and deliver.
2
Neither Clinton nor Warren have sexually harassed their staff.
As for women being paid less, it's a problem everywhere.
Perhaps even you have done it. At the very least, you have probably experienced it. You know how you "heal" it thyself?
By speaking up. Or, as you call it, "carping."
As for women being paid less, it's a problem everywhere.
Perhaps even you have done it. At the very least, you have probably experienced it. You know how you "heal" it thyself?
By speaking up. Or, as you call it, "carping."
Evidence, please.
4
What about his obnoxious $25m parachute? That sounds like a man-bro high five for bad behavior. Worse, it's incentive for future anchors. If you want a high-profile exit, become a predator, enjoy while it cooks, then walk-out with milllions, high-fiving your way to the exit. Why, thank you Fox. How about moving to Rikers Island? The mayor has a deal for you.
34
There has been a lot of comment about O'Reilly leaving with $25 million. There is a more interesting and detailed accounting of this. His contract was recently renewed, just in March, and written into the contract because it was evident this problem existed and could become bigger than it was at contract-signing time, there were outs written in for the Murdochs and one of them was that O'Reilly would only get the one year's salary, $25 million, if he were to be ousted. The facts are that as long as O'Reilly was bringing in a measurable $440 something million a year in advertising revenue for The O'Reilly Factor, he was worth the $25 million. Think how much worse it could be. He could have been this disgusting but unsuccessful sexual predator/insulter and walked away with $100 million. Small comfort, I know, but still it says a lot more about the business community, money motivating and the old guard allowing this to go on for upwards of 15 years, the elder Murdoch. It seems James and Lachlan want to create a different imagine. James appeared before a meeting of NatGeo last week. He sounds like a decent younger man, believes in climate change, wants to fight it and has a lot of other worthy goals on his plate, as does his brother. It's still business. They do not believe the father's business model of ignoring predation for money is sustainable over the long haul. So they will tamp down the predators for awhile, as long as it doesn't affect the bottom line too much
2
Basically, O'Reilly's payout is something Fox is doing to avoid getting sued by him. Remember, he just signed a new contract a few months ago. Unless there was a behavior or morality clause in his contract, which I highly doubt, then Fox is on the hook for part of the money.
Is O'Reilly a terrible person? Yes.
Is Fox News a biased network with a questionable workplace culture? Also yes.
But there are laws that have to be followed, especially regarding money, if they want to continue being a biased network with a questionable workplace culture.
Is O'Reilly a terrible person? Yes.
Is Fox News a biased network with a questionable workplace culture? Also yes.
But there are laws that have to be followed, especially regarding money, if they want to continue being a biased network with a questionable workplace culture.
32
It doesn't seem Fox has had a lot of qualms paying up, whether it be O'Reilly and Ailes or all the women who've been wronged. The guys still get more, the guys who did the wrong. Wow.
2
What lessons are learned (or taught!) when a sexual abuser is rewarded with 25 million dollars by the company that fired him?
36
You would think that a blow hard pundit was the source of these problems...he wasn't. He was a symptom of a much bigger problem that is the power of religious leaders to get legislators to treat women like the source of all evil. They pass laws to punish women, take away their health care and stifle reproductive autonomy; legitimize state sponsored rape...forced vaginal sonograms..; lecture women about how rape is a blessing and carrying a dead fetus is god's will even if it kills you! Sexual abuse, discrimination, humiliation and domestic violence is all an out growth of the status religious leaders perpetuate when they tell women and men that a woman's value is her ability to bear children and that her place is defined by that fact. Submission and obedience is her lot and failure to acquiesce requires punishment.
When a VICE PRESIDENT cannot be in a room alone with a woman..you know we all have a big problem!
When a VICE PRESIDENT cannot be in a room alone with a woman..you know we all have a big problem!
124
While I agree with your overall view on the subject of women, I am not sure I agree with your assessment of religion's place in all this and I most certainly do not agree with your castigation of Vice President Pence's decision moral decisions. I am a Gay man and I do not allow myself to be alone with young men who I am mentoring! Period, not open for discussion. We are in public and almost always with others present.
2
AMEN!!!!!
Yes, the true problem with sexual inequality is that it reaches much farther than Him and FOX "Spews". For instance, why does it seem that Women in the Broadcast Media have to pass the "Curtie" test, before the questions of--conciseness, on-air professional presence, understands the subject matter, have pertinent follow-up questions, and know how to handle a response-evader. In essence, is she a good journalist? Guys don't seem to have to meet the same good looks.
https://thetruthoncommonsense.com
https://thetruthoncommonsense.com
11
President Trump was challenged during the presidential race for his treatment of
women. He was elected but Billy Bush, who was taped with Trump having a raucous conversation in 2005, was discharged, and still can't find a job. The bottom line is that Roger Ailes and Bill O'Reilly made enormous fortunes for
FOX. Bill O'Reilly is a best selling author, and will remain in the public eye.
Corporate behavior will not be changed by O'Reilly being fired.
women. He was elected but Billy Bush, who was taped with Trump having a raucous conversation in 2005, was discharged, and still can't find a job. The bottom line is that Roger Ailes and Bill O'Reilly made enormous fortunes for
FOX. Bill O'Reilly is a best selling author, and will remain in the public eye.
Corporate behavior will not be changed by O'Reilly being fired.
10
Our very smart and capable school secretary practically ran the school, and after more than 20 years of service, she was making 9 dollars an hour. Our male principal who was helpless and lost without our secretary, made 5 times more per hour. Our secretary was worth her weight in gold. She also put up with a lot of mistreatments and put downs, because she needed the job.
44
If you knew all this why didn't you all go to the school board and the media?!
1
Wage disparity is a real issue, I get all that.
But I don't get the Bill O'Reilly problem -- he SAID things, but what did he DO that cost him $13 mil, his job, and probably his career ?
Do not conflate a real issue like wage disparity, with a questionable "judge, jury, and execution", of Bill O'Reilly, when we do not know its full details.
But I don't get the Bill O'Reilly problem -- he SAID things, but what did he DO that cost him $13 mil, his job, and probably his career ?
Do not conflate a real issue like wage disparity, with a questionable "judge, jury, and execution", of Bill O'Reilly, when we do not know its full details.
2
It didn't cost o'reilly $13 million- Fox News paid that. He (amongst other things) offered to help women with their careers and then tried to have sex with them & if they did not go along with it, he withdrew his offers of help & made efforts to sabotage their careers. Do you think that is okay?
2
Homey, his corporate masters baled on him, not to mention paying millions in hush money.
1
::sigh:: O'Reilly broke the law. We don't know all he did, due to those confidentiality agreements drawn up by Fox lawyers and other white shoe pettifogs on retainer by the Murdochs. If you've been paying attention - and it's clear you have not - O'Reilly did more than say things, though, again, that is against the law.
2
It's more than just equal pay or being sexually harassed, degraded and abused or not getting to be in the club that is doing the harassing, degrading and abusing.
Many jobs are so awful, the job itself is abusive, harassing and degrading. The only way to get through the day is by being part of a club. Not being allowed into the club while doing same kind of work as everyone else? Well, the injustice of THAT, is staggering. Thank about being a new mom and all the other moms simply don't let you "in". You are still a mom, you have a child, but to be pushed out, we can all imagine the harm in that.
So lets call it out for what it really is, the right of all civil human beings to be treated civilly as human beings, in short, it's about basic human rights.
A principle on which our country was founded. A principle that needs to be moved into the workplace.
Many jobs are so awful, the job itself is abusive, harassing and degrading. The only way to get through the day is by being part of a club. Not being allowed into the club while doing same kind of work as everyone else? Well, the injustice of THAT, is staggering. Thank about being a new mom and all the other moms simply don't let you "in". You are still a mom, you have a child, but to be pushed out, we can all imagine the harm in that.
So lets call it out for what it really is, the right of all civil human beings to be treated civilly as human beings, in short, it's about basic human rights.
A principle on which our country was founded. A principle that needs to be moved into the workplace.
13
Where is the accountability of the Board of Directors of Fox? Don't their shareholders care that the millions of dollars of their money going to sexual predators or to pay for their behaviors?
24
No, they don't. And that is part of the problem.
I cant stand Faux Noos. I cant stand Ailes. I cant stand O'Reilly or anything about anybody else who works there esp the talking head maniquins with Murdoch's hand up their shirts making their lips move including laughable tools like Steve Doosey. They are a poisonous and corrosive force to American democracy. And they're also a corporation, a legit business and they should be free to run their business how they see fit unless its for financial malfeasance or similar. Nobody made these offended women seek employment there or once seeing what it is, staying there. The slick ones with good lawyers play both sides; "oh, I am SOOOOOO a victim, that will be $5M to make shut up, or I'l quit wearing low necklines and short skirts. oh spare me. these women should have been the ones given golden parachutes (I'll bet they could have done it for less than $65M too) and glowing references when a company who would treat them better (but not make them so famoes or pay them as well) this shows how ad $ still makes even the lowest of the low turn into camp followers. Murdoch has enough money, he should have weathered the storm and told Madison Ave to go fly a kite. THAT would have been a shot over the bow. I never did understand why these companies cater to the ad clowns. I strenuously avoid ads at every opportunity. watching them changes you and turns you into one of the nit wits who's constantly staring at their little dope boxes while in line or worse weaving down the road. its gota stop.
2
Am I the only one who has noticed that commercial television news media, especially Fox News, has more than its share of young, pretty women? Fox seems to have a high percentage of blondes. Who are these young women? Are they experienced journalists? Why are they there? I would like to see this statistic: the percentage of women on camera who are over 50 and overweight compared to the percentage of men.
28
Fox has the best-looking women and the most biased news. Take any brand-name conservative, give her a short haircut and have her gain 30 pounds and no one would listen to her, and that's not just within the Fox organization. Eye candy and biased baloney.
3
The Ailes winning formula was young women, wearing skimpy dresses, displaying
great legs, uttering political nonsense. A winning formula, still continuing.
I am a firm viewer. By the way, O'Reilly will come back because
an enormous number of people are his fans and will support him on another
network.
great legs, uttering political nonsense. A winning formula, still continuing.
I am a firm viewer. By the way, O'Reilly will come back because
an enormous number of people are his fans and will support him on another
network.
1
What is really dangerous a out FOX is it's use of fake news, opinion, and propaganda to brainwash gullible people. Trump would not be President if it were not for FOX news.
15
yes. they are the news station of choice for "low-information" voters. I wouldn't just call them gullible though. racist and angry. gullible makes it seem like they didn't really know what they were doing when they voted for him when there was a slew of evidence showing what he was really like.
O'Reilly was fired, not out of any sense of concern or morality about his abuse of women, but because a lot of advertisers started leaving.
Advertisers now need pull their ads to protest Fox's $25 million cash payout to O'Reilly - to make it clear: predators shouldn't have golden parachutes.
Advertisers now need pull their ads to protest Fox's $25 million cash payout to O'Reilly - to make it clear: predators shouldn't have golden parachutes.
20
When the left stops lionizing the Bill Clintons and Ted (Mary Jo Kopechne) Kennedys, maybe the right will also stop mistreating women. The schadenfreude here is too palpable.
8
Another right-wing false equivalency. My Kingdom for some critical thinking skills!
1) Bill Clinton had consensual affairs. I cannot figure out why the right wing in this country can't seem to decipher between consensual and unwanted;
2) If Clinton made unwanted passes at women, he did not pursue those women. That is when it becomes harassment, or if jobs are threatened, etc. Men make passes at women all the time. That is not a crime. In fact, the on sexual harassment case brought against Clinton was thrown out by the judge for "lacking merit" in that Jones could show NO retaliation or pattern of harassment. Clinton took no for an answer, in other words.
3) You think Ted Kennedy left Kopechne there because she was a woman??? Great thinking skills there, older and not very wise. He left out of fear because he'd was drunk when he was driving. Had his passenger been a man, the outcome would have been the same.
These attempts at using Bill Clinton, and in your case Ted Kennedy, to try to equate them with actual sexual harassers and assaulters (Trump, whom you voted to be president, so no finger pointing by you, Mister) are desperate, admissions of guilt, and not well thought out.
1) Bill Clinton had consensual affairs. I cannot figure out why the right wing in this country can't seem to decipher between consensual and unwanted;
2) If Clinton made unwanted passes at women, he did not pursue those women. That is when it becomes harassment, or if jobs are threatened, etc. Men make passes at women all the time. That is not a crime. In fact, the on sexual harassment case brought against Clinton was thrown out by the judge for "lacking merit" in that Jones could show NO retaliation or pattern of harassment. Clinton took no for an answer, in other words.
3) You think Ted Kennedy left Kopechne there because she was a woman??? Great thinking skills there, older and not very wise. He left out of fear because he'd was drunk when he was driving. Had his passenger been a man, the outcome would have been the same.
These attempts at using Bill Clinton, and in your case Ted Kennedy, to try to equate them with actual sexual harassers and assaulters (Trump, whom you voted to be president, so no finger pointing by you, Mister) are desperate, admissions of guilt, and not well thought out.
2
Both are wrong, and plenty of news organizations have said so. The liberal east coast news media and liberal west coast entertainment media is run by men who excuse their own revolting behaviors and those of their sons and grandsons at the expense of all females. Plenty of females in those news and entertainment organization corporate cartels have had their lives ruined or they just quit and found jobs elsewhere due to men just like Ailes and O'Reilly that are the norm EVERYWHERE. You don't ignore one fatal disease because the body has another fatal disease.
Yes, these two politicians did mis-treat women. However, they didn't institutionalize or legislate to strip women of basic rights, i.e., control of your own body. To use this as a false equalivancy between the left and the right is as you say palpable.
Bill and Teds were personal failings. Their health care didn't exempt maturnaty coverage, or require state sponsored sonograms.
Bill and Teds were personal failings. Their health care didn't exempt maturnaty coverage, or require state sponsored sonograms.
1
Aside from sexual harassment, I take issue with the topics Bill O'Reilly's chose to cover and not cover. Lots of segments about Benghazi, crimes committed by immigrants, Christians who feel persecuted and political correctness. Far too often, O'Reilly missed the bigger picture of current events.
A prime example of O'Reilly's misguided journalistic priorities was the contrast between the attention he paid to the Clinton/Lewinski affair vs. The Factor's dearth of discussion regarding the circumstances about the US entering into the 2003 war in Iraq.
In 1998, O'Reilly was totally obsessed with Clinton/Lewinsky. He lead with it day after day as if it was really important. Get real! Conversely, in the years following the US invasion of Iraq, O'Reilly allocated FAR less time discussing the GW Bush administration's motivations for committing US resources to this ill-advised war.
Such miniscule (if any) coverage about the Bush people's cherry-picking of raw CIA data, made-up narratives about aluminum tubes and Iraq importing uranium, plus the administration's dependence on dubious sources like “Curveball” and Ahmed Chalabi. This was a war that cost 4,500 US deaths and 32,000 wounded, 500,000 Iraqi deaths, and $800 billion (and still counting) in US taxpayers' money. A far more important story than a President's extra-martial affair!
To the extent the harassment charges against O'Reilly are true just adds a layer of hypocrisy on top of horrendous journalistic judgment.
A prime example of O'Reilly's misguided journalistic priorities was the contrast between the attention he paid to the Clinton/Lewinski affair vs. The Factor's dearth of discussion regarding the circumstances about the US entering into the 2003 war in Iraq.
In 1998, O'Reilly was totally obsessed with Clinton/Lewinsky. He lead with it day after day as if it was really important. Get real! Conversely, in the years following the US invasion of Iraq, O'Reilly allocated FAR less time discussing the GW Bush administration's motivations for committing US resources to this ill-advised war.
Such miniscule (if any) coverage about the Bush people's cherry-picking of raw CIA data, made-up narratives about aluminum tubes and Iraq importing uranium, plus the administration's dependence on dubious sources like “Curveball” and Ahmed Chalabi. This was a war that cost 4,500 US deaths and 32,000 wounded, 500,000 Iraqi deaths, and $800 billion (and still counting) in US taxpayers' money. A far more important story than a President's extra-martial affair!
To the extent the harassment charges against O'Reilly are true just adds a layer of hypocrisy on top of horrendous journalistic judgment.
30
Stop saying "women!"
49% of WHITE college graduates voted for Trump--the majority of them were women.
Most people think the video of Trump talking about what he can grab was an indictment of Trump; it was; but it was also an absolute indictment of women because it AMPLY demonstrated EXACTLY what you can say about them and STILL get their support. Not ALL women of course; just enough for Trump to get elected to the most powerful office on earth.
Men may wear the hoods but you know who sews them, right?
49% of WHITE college graduates voted for Trump--the majority of them were women.
Most people think the video of Trump talking about what he can grab was an indictment of Trump; it was; but it was also an absolute indictment of women because it AMPLY demonstrated EXACTLY what you can say about them and STILL get their support. Not ALL women of course; just enough for Trump to get elected to the most powerful office on earth.
Men may wear the hoods but you know who sews them, right?
11
Many politically centrist non-college educated white females voted for Trump because they were disgusted with or fearful of the the fringe left 8 years of Obama. And because they are just as sexist as the men. The lesson in that ought be this nation is centrist at its core and both parties need to hew to the middle, just as there is much work to be done in this fragmented nation where men pit women against each other, carping and demeaning the Hillary Clintons and Elizabeth Warrens simply because they are female. The misogyny - the physical and sexual threats made by GOP voters AND the Bernie Bros. against female candidates is nothing but disgusting and a symptom of just how violent and misogynist the United States still is. The GOP is now learning this. Time will tell if the Democrats do. I'm not holding my breath. I fear my teen daughter will face the same America I do, and I have had many conversations with her, explaining sexism and layers of damage that all arenas of American life to do all age females. I've pointed out to her that it is boys of her generation that will either continue the dreadful harm done to females or they will do a 180 and become human. If only Americans would educate and fix their sons. If the best we can do is explain to girls how sick our porn addicted and violent rapist society is then the U.S. is far worse off than even the NYT wants to admit.
4
Lots of women have given me hugs and none asked for my permission before. Indeed a hug would be pointless if such a thing were done.
For something perhaps a bit more relevant, of all the women I have kissed, I only asked one for permission. In particular when I first kissed my wife, to whom I was married for 26 years, I did NOT ask for permission. Sexual relationships and expression of affection between men and women is a complex affair subject to subtle signals and not to written permissions.
This is not to say that there is no such thing as sexual harassment or that sexual harassment is OK.
But the NY Times takes its position on the issue from feminists who are only a minority of women. And thus the NY Times cannot really go into the question of "What do women want? What do men want?"
I am not saying that the issue does not need addressing. But a publication which is so far on the left - on social issues, is not the right agent to advocate for the right changes.
For something perhaps a bit more relevant, of all the women I have kissed, I only asked one for permission. In particular when I first kissed my wife, to whom I was married for 26 years, I did NOT ask for permission. Sexual relationships and expression of affection between men and women is a complex affair subject to subtle signals and not to written permissions.
This is not to say that there is no such thing as sexual harassment or that sexual harassment is OK.
But the NY Times takes its position on the issue from feminists who are only a minority of women. And thus the NY Times cannot really go into the question of "What do women want? What do men want?"
I am not saying that the issue does not need addressing. But a publication which is so far on the left - on social issues, is not the right agent to advocate for the right changes.
3
And Mary, what do you say about the attacks on Sarah Palin AND her daughters? What do you say about the fact that Condi Rice was not allowed to speak at Rutgers and that Ann Coulter is being prevented from speaking at Berkeley? These are also attacks on women. And they did not come from the right.
Many women are centrist and some are even conservative. Until the "women's movement" acknowledges this reality and does not write of these other women as "deplorables," many of the centrist and conservative women WILL vote for people like Trump.
Many women are centrist and some are even conservative. Until the "women's movement" acknowledges this reality and does not write of these other women as "deplorables," many of the centrist and conservative women WILL vote for people like Trump.
1
How does the NYT perpetuate this fallacy of the wage gap? Every liberal commentary always neglects the #1 difference between men/woman pay - number of hours worked. Woman continue to prioritize child rearing and make their careers and hours a secondary priority to work .. men do not. Why can you not tell the truth??
4
My single mother raised me and my siblings while working just as many hours as the men for less pay. The notion that some pampered man child with an alpha complex could do that is laughable.
What a disjointed article. The first two paragraphs rail, rightly, against Bill O'Reilly. Then, the rest of the article is about ynfair pay to women which is a phenomena of difficult proportion to analyze and correct.
3
Where in O'Reilly's contract did it stipulate that he would receive compensation if caught sexually harassing women? If anyone else in the world were to lose their job (no matter how good they are) due to similar accusations, you can be 100% sure that they will not receive a single cent.
Why did Fox seem so eager to pay him?
O'Reilly's nightly howling about "personal responsibility" ring extremely hollow.
Why did Fox seem so eager to pay him?
O'Reilly's nightly howling about "personal responsibility" ring extremely hollow.
15
The " studs " at FOX need to look in the mirror. An actual mirror, without the special lighting, and the Make-up. Just saying.
12
Even though in the Federal Government wage are published with the GS scale that does not mean pay equality either. I have witnessed men in the Federal Government being promoted to SES jobs, and females being down graded from GS -15 to 14's with classification studies. Then why not get a double minority by promoting an unqualified black women who will do the bidding of those in power rather than promote the qualified white female.
4
This is pretty much what media - especially journalism - and academia have done since the late 1970s. It's part and parcel of corporate 2 for 1 affirmative action PC policies.
1
The fact that a sexual predator, a male, won more electoral votes than one of the most qualified individuals to run for president, a woman, says a great deal as well.
317
Perhaps this has been enough to finally wake up a lot of American males and females, but I doubt it. Btw, the U.S. has doubled its population since the 1960s, mostly from 2nd and 3rd world immigrants from places where females are on par with the livestock.
It is possible that the outcome of the presidential race had little to do with sexual predication but much to do with the political state of mind of the populous.
Wait - I thought Hillary Clinton ran against Trump. Who are you talking about?
And while everyone argues over which President or Senator or First Lady or other infamous person is at fault, another everyday sort of woman gets assaulted in some way. I was sexually assaulted thirty years ago during an internship. Nothing has changed, and it's time it did.
62
I and many other women are profoundly disgusted at the smug and condescending rhetoric from the right that trivializes sexual harassment as a made-up problem and mischaracterizes the dynamic between the abuser and the victim, typically a boss and a subordinate, as a "he said, she said" verbal disagreement between equals. A far better comparison is date rape, in which the rapist uses the trappings of normal social interaction to catch his victim off guard and to excuse and camouflage his criminal behavior as something that the victim herself invited.
108
I was very well appreciated and acknowledged for my good work until I applied for my bosses position. Not only did I not get it I was thereafter osterized. People love good female workers but hate them when they try to move up.
68
And now we can add the presidency, where a qualified female candidate lost to a completely unqualified, less intelligent version of O'reilly.
261
Ironically Hillary Clinton did not even listen to her own husband's advice, which we are finding out is the most realistic cause for her defeat to President Trump.
Wait - I thought Hillary Clinton ran against Trump. Who are you talking about "a qualified female candidate"?. Sure not Clinton.
Male nurses make more because (as an average) they received their training i the military and more often go into trauma care.
Also, the military pays for certificate training to advancd their careers.
Women have the same options: they just don't choose to join themilitary as often and more often choose palliative care.
Stop lying about the gender wage gap and start talking about the gender death gap: men are 90 of work place fatalities as they take the more dangerous jobs.
Also, the military pays for certificate training to advancd their careers.
Women have the same options: they just don't choose to join themilitary as often and more often choose palliative care.
Stop lying about the gender wage gap and start talking about the gender death gap: men are 90 of work place fatalities as they take the more dangerous jobs.
14
Male nurses also often don't take time off to have children, and are willing to put in long hours of overtime. And they SEEK OUT management jobs, which some female nurses don't want -- they prefer the flexibility of hours built around their children or family, or part time hours. (Nursing is one of those jobs with extreme flexibility and where you can work part time hours at excellent wages.)
It's not all some giant conspiracy. We women are as much part of the problem, as we could be part of the solution -- but the lefty liberal "meme" here seems to be that women want it ALL -- to work part time, take off for kids and yet not lose time in the work force, or have to take lesser positions at lower wages. They are asking for something highly impractical economically and very unlikely to occur.
It's not all some giant conspiracy. We women are as much part of the problem, as we could be part of the solution -- but the lefty liberal "meme" here seems to be that women want it ALL -- to work part time, take off for kids and yet not lose time in the work force, or have to take lesser positions at lower wages. They are asking for something highly impractical economically and very unlikely to occur.
1
I have met many, many nurses in my lifetime. Yes, even some of them had been in the military. Women nurses are found in the ER (trauma care, buddy), ICU (acute care), surgery, and everywhere else. Palliative care is such a small subset of health care, let alone nursing, that it could not provide jobs for the army of nurses.
Yes, more men die on the job. More men die earlier, period. Some of it is from macho behavior in not wearing protective gear and in taking unnecessary chances. Obviously, you do not consider sexual harassment that extends on occasion to molesting and rape to be dangerous. I do hope your next female superior will help you become sensitized by grabbing you by the doggie.
As Shakespeare said, "everyone can bear an ill but he that has it."
Yes, more men die on the job. More men die earlier, period. Some of it is from macho behavior in not wearing protective gear and in taking unnecessary chances. Obviously, you do not consider sexual harassment that extends on occasion to molesting and rape to be dangerous. I do hope your next female superior will help you become sensitized by grabbing you by the doggie.
As Shakespeare said, "everyone can bear an ill but he that has it."
3
I lack empathy for the women victims at FOX. They were part of the right wing forces which have helped elect the worst elements of the GOP, including our current grabber-in-chief.
They were in effect collaborators, putting careers first.
Yes they are victims, but they are hardly innocent.
No Norma Rae's. No Anita Hill's.
They were in effect collaborators, putting careers first.
Yes they are victims, but they are hardly innocent.
No Norma Rae's. No Anita Hill's.
53
I lack empathy for the male liberals who don't see how their sexist logic is no better than that of the GOP.
4
When are often between a rock and a hard place. Socially they are viewed as sexual objects, mothers, servants. Look at the current newscasters. Models or journalists? Many women are single mothers and caretakers. A good paying is a priority. In a society that compromises a woman integrity, what the choices?
2
Your name calling can't absolve the FOX women of their complicity. They helped damage the country. Sorry if the truth offends you.
For many people in the US, the best standard is how a business is run. This is a good example of what that means. Fox only cares about profit and that profit comes from advertising.
Business standards are no standard at all.
Business standards are no standard at all.
20
It is certainly the libertarian view.
Jerry,
Unfortunately, and I truly mean that word, as a society we tolerate antisocial behavior in corporations that would get any minority person a prison term. We have been conditioned to believe that, since corporations are only people for first amendment purposes, they cannot be held to any standards of decency and public accountability. I believe this myth hurts us all. Because of it, we tolerate abuse and criminal behavior on the part of corporate executives and their boards. When Bernie Sanders said that the business model of Wall Street is fraud, he spoke the truth.
We alternate between tittering and shock over Trump's behavior. Well, America, wake up. He and his entire class have been doing the same things for decades. Trump won't release his taxes? How many more of the leading 500 families would have as much to hide as he has if there were reasons to demand to see their returns? I suspect most of them. He differs from most of them in one regard: he is utterly uncouth, and it for that reason alone that they have never accepted him. (Well, maybe stiffing them when they invested in one of his ventures didn't help.)
Come on, folks. Demand better. We only suffer abuse as long as we permit it. Let's get some people in office who will take a hard look at our lax standards for corporate behavior and who will enact a law declaring that corporations are most assuredly not people.
Unfortunately, and I truly mean that word, as a society we tolerate antisocial behavior in corporations that would get any minority person a prison term. We have been conditioned to believe that, since corporations are only people for first amendment purposes, they cannot be held to any standards of decency and public accountability. I believe this myth hurts us all. Because of it, we tolerate abuse and criminal behavior on the part of corporate executives and their boards. When Bernie Sanders said that the business model of Wall Street is fraud, he spoke the truth.
We alternate between tittering and shock over Trump's behavior. Well, America, wake up. He and his entire class have been doing the same things for decades. Trump won't release his taxes? How many more of the leading 500 families would have as much to hide as he has if there were reasons to demand to see their returns? I suspect most of them. He differs from most of them in one regard: he is utterly uncouth, and it for that reason alone that they have never accepted him. (Well, maybe stiffing them when they invested in one of his ventures didn't help.)
Come on, folks. Demand better. We only suffer abuse as long as we permit it. Let's get some people in office who will take a hard look at our lax standards for corporate behavior and who will enact a law declaring that corporations are most assuredly not people.
Women have no sense of justice and love psychopaths. I watched it in the workplace and it is disgusting. They engage in sexual activity with the boss to get power and then complain about being victimized. They are not all like that but too many are. There was one that was married and technically smart that I used to go to for technical help. Every time I did this, another one would come into the area and drag her out. I was finally told that the reason was that she was having an affair with the boss and was trying to get the smart one to loge a complain against me because I told the manager about the affair.
6
So, once in a workplace, you felt disadvantaged because a woman gave in to sexual harassment on the job and got favors in return? Is that your point? That made you feel disadvantaged, right?
Gee, it is nice to understand why men resent women in the workplace.
Gee, it is nice to understand why men resent women in the workplace.
3
I've been in numerous workplace situations where one of the female employees was having an affair with a boss or supervisor -- consensually -- and abused that power to slack off work on others, or be abusive herself.
While some women hate being flirted with at work, and reject it -- plenty of other women SEEK IT OUT (some males do this too!). They WANT an affair with the boss, which garners them special treatment and promotions and raises.
Articles like this make it sound like all women are morally upright and a bit prudish, and are deeply offended that the boss flirts with them! In fact, a lot of women like this -- a lot -- and USE IT to their advantage.
While some women hate being flirted with at work, and reject it -- plenty of other women SEEK IT OUT (some males do this too!). They WANT an affair with the boss, which garners them special treatment and promotions and raises.
Articles like this make it sound like all women are morally upright and a bit prudish, and are deeply offended that the boss flirts with them! In fact, a lot of women like this -- a lot -- and USE IT to their advantage.
2
And thus the old adage that women use sexuality as a weapon because they so badly need a weapon. The workplace remains a male bastion of male power, economically and psychologically, with males setting those rules to benefit themselves. There are no arenas of life that females control or even just safely and peacefully are allowed to exist, certainly none that involve their economic independence from males.
3
The factor that many articles, including this one, prevents the advancement and enforcement of women's rights is women who truly believe men are superior in every way. And there are many of those.
35
Because male superiority is what all male-created religions profess in order to shore up fragile male egos - the self-congratulatory reward that keeps males at the tippy top of those cultures, and because female inferiority is what all male-created religions profess in order to fragment the stronger female ego and control reproductive age young females - the reward allegedly being protection by the aforementioned bribed males from other males that are violent because all males are raised in a son-tilt world that for 2000 years reconfigured the human species so half of it believes it is superior.
The constant threat of violent males is what has kept females everywhere subjugated by males and the male-created patriarchal religions, under the paradigm that the enslavement of females will serve to civilize at least some males while punishing the other rapists and murderers in the after life. Were women to send religions to the curb, literally just stop colluding in their own demise by genuflecting to that misogynist superstitious junk, then successive generations of sons would not have that added alleviation and daughters would not be crippled, and society would not be forever deformed.
The constant threat of violent males is what has kept females everywhere subjugated by males and the male-created patriarchal religions, under the paradigm that the enslavement of females will serve to civilize at least some males while punishing the other rapists and murderers in the after life. Were women to send religions to the curb, literally just stop colluding in their own demise by genuflecting to that misogynist superstitious junk, then successive generations of sons would not have that added alleviation and daughters would not be crippled, and society would not be forever deformed.
There Times goes again.
In its wisdom, the Time editors pretend to know what a gender-fair society would look like. It is a society where there would be "parity" in executive ranks and company board rooms. How do they know that? They don't say. (Doubtless the Times trying to protect its sources).
Seriously, the Times' parity standard is totally unserious, so long as men and women make different choices in the workplace and marketplace. Take law. There is substantial gender diversity variances across all practice areas. Women (30% of the total) make up 60% of immigration practices, 48% of family law groups and 45% in health care work.
Practice areas with the highest compensation, such as banking, intellectual property and litigation, have the lowest percentages of women
Why? One legal recruiter said women choose those niche practices "perhaps because they believe there will be more flexibility in their hours, and they have more control over the hours unlike a M&A or a finance deal that has to be worked on all weekend because [of] a deal.”
A woman litigation partner said: “Attorneys are essentially at the beck and call of their clients and the court." That means that female litigators can be forced to spend a significant amount of time away from home, something that she said leads many women to opt out of high-stakes and national litigation proceedings.
Doesn't the Times get it that if men and women were the same, there couldn't be such a thing as gender diversity?
In its wisdom, the Time editors pretend to know what a gender-fair society would look like. It is a society where there would be "parity" in executive ranks and company board rooms. How do they know that? They don't say. (Doubtless the Times trying to protect its sources).
Seriously, the Times' parity standard is totally unserious, so long as men and women make different choices in the workplace and marketplace. Take law. There is substantial gender diversity variances across all practice areas. Women (30% of the total) make up 60% of immigration practices, 48% of family law groups and 45% in health care work.
Practice areas with the highest compensation, such as banking, intellectual property and litigation, have the lowest percentages of women
Why? One legal recruiter said women choose those niche practices "perhaps because they believe there will be more flexibility in their hours, and they have more control over the hours unlike a M&A or a finance deal that has to be worked on all weekend because [of] a deal.”
A woman litigation partner said: “Attorneys are essentially at the beck and call of their clients and the court." That means that female litigators can be forced to spend a significant amount of time away from home, something that she said leads many women to opt out of high-stakes and national litigation proceedings.
Doesn't the Times get it that if men and women were the same, there couldn't be such a thing as gender diversity?
8
Respectfully, you are wrong. Women are fearful that that they will lose their families if they take these jobs. Imaging what would happen,if-- instead of taking these jobs which have marginally less jours, they took these higher paying jobs and insisted that their workplaces accommodated their needs?
The men currently in these higher paying jobs would not be able to do them were it not for women in the background supporting them to do it. Many of the men in these positions have very large families yet there is someone behind them making their lives easier. If those very same talented women who are taking care of these men were out in the workplace, these very high-paying positions might look somewhat different.
The men currently in these higher paying jobs would not be able to do them were it not for women in the background supporting them to do it. Many of the men in these positions have very large families yet there is someone behind them making their lives easier. If those very same talented women who are taking care of these men were out in the workplace, these very high-paying positions might look somewhat different.
7
Of course you are right. But you are making my point for me.
Women still disproportionately make the choice to let their family shape their career. So long as they choose to do so, there won't be gender parity.
So why beat up on ourselves over the lack of gender parity?
Women still disproportionately make the choice to let their family shape their career. So long as they choose to do so, there won't be gender parity.
So why beat up on ourselves over the lack of gender parity?
5
Choices? You're kidding me. My female employee is about to step out of the workforce or into a lower-payed job because her husband won't help her take care of their son or show some flexibility to move to a place where she could get a job. This is despite the fact that he makes far less than what she could earn if she pursued her career. Both their families are completely unsupportive and tell her to 'get home and take care of the kids'. She could divorce him. But then she couldn't move to a location with a good job either because judges rule against the divorced parent who leaves town.
6
Another factor that's overlooked is that women like my wife, with decades of corporate experience, are always asked to disclose their prior salary when applying for a new job. The pay inequity established decades earlier continues and is multiplied with higher positions compared to her male colleagues. There oughta be a law!
14
Systemic discrimination that victimizes minorities and women would be of no benefit to the topmost of the topmost (AKA the only people who matter) if it didn't also drastically undermine the human dignity and reasonable prospects of the white man thereby ensuring an homogenous beaten down general workforce a massive portion of which hasn't any energy left over after cataloguing and rehearsing reasons to hate minorities and feel superior to women to concern itself over such things as regret over their twisted, remorselessly hateful and thoroughly nonsensical lives.
3
This gender inequality, in an advanced society (really?), shows we are still a "macho" society, intent in 'showing' women their subservient role, undeserving a promotion in work and life, no matter how deserving. Could it be we men were not taught, as children, to respect, even love, our sisters? Or is this all just a hormonal drive? Or a deep ingrained insecurity requiring masking via bullying our way? It is high time we sit down and have an honest conversation.
13
To say that women's work lives are derailed by structural impediments such as child care and scheduling reveals a further structural impediment: that mothers are expected to take primary responsibility for child-rearing.
20
Yes, woman are expected to care for children and without the assistance of high quality, low expense child care. Ever heard of an employer asking a man if he planned to have children?
Something doesn't add up here. I believe discrimination is wrong, any type, period. Full stop.
What I question is the severity of the problem as portrayed here. I can think about any number of reasons why the disparity exists, but the notion of "oppressed 50% of the workforce" seems off to me.
If 50% of available workers were this oppressed some astute entrepreneur would have already tapped this large pool of talent. Some contend that the anti-Jewish sentiment in the first part of the XX-th century that closed the doors of the Ivy League to many qualified Jews who ended up at MIT is responsible for the institute becoming the most prominent engineering university in the world.
If so many uber qualified women are waiting in the line for a chance to prove themselves, some entrepreneur (a woman, perhaps?) will seize the opportunity. If this is not happening, perhaps it is time to look at the possibility that men and women are not motivated by the same stuff in life and that might be the real reason why the disparity exists!
What I question is the severity of the problem as portrayed here. I can think about any number of reasons why the disparity exists, but the notion of "oppressed 50% of the workforce" seems off to me.
If 50% of available workers were this oppressed some astute entrepreneur would have already tapped this large pool of talent. Some contend that the anti-Jewish sentiment in the first part of the XX-th century that closed the doors of the Ivy League to many qualified Jews who ended up at MIT is responsible for the institute becoming the most prominent engineering university in the world.
If so many uber qualified women are waiting in the line for a chance to prove themselves, some entrepreneur (a woman, perhaps?) will seize the opportunity. If this is not happening, perhaps it is time to look at the possibility that men and women are not motivated by the same stuff in life and that might be the real reason why the disparity exists!
10
In the US motivation is changing. Look out!
In the 1980s, sexual harassment was rampant and blatant. My boss would actually call me to his office and heap sexual comments on my head for two hours at a time while I squirmed with discomfort. As a single mom, I was terrified to quit my job. Today, sexual discrimination takes another form, no less harmful, but more subtle. Cute, young girls are given favoritism and I have to work twice as hard just to keep my place.
21
Ann Coulter is a prime example of this discrimination against a women as a state institution has blocked her from speaking just like the state in the old E. German and Soviet Union refused diversity of opinion. But it is the intolerant, boring monolith American left who hate diversity of thought (especially from a woman) who are to blame in this case.
The arguments in this piece are the same tired statistically biased arguments from very non-thinking, non-intellectually curious people who unfortunately are the same ilk who block Ms. Coulter from speaking. For example, I imagine the people who wrote this piece have never been even a hundred yards from a construction site because they have lived very soft feminine lives (even if male). On a construction site, women are unlikely to climb 100 ft. ladders for example while carrying hundred pound loads but this is not controlled here - it does pay the mostly male workers well who do this kind of work - but most women (and feminine men) would prefer not to do this kind of work.
The arguments in this piece are the same tired statistically biased arguments from very non-thinking, non-intellectually curious people who unfortunately are the same ilk who block Ms. Coulter from speaking. For example, I imagine the people who wrote this piece have never been even a hundred yards from a construction site because they have lived very soft feminine lives (even if male). On a construction site, women are unlikely to climb 100 ft. ladders for example while carrying hundred pound loads but this is not controlled here - it does pay the mostly male workers well who do this kind of work - but most women (and feminine men) would prefer not to do this kind of work.
4
Ms Coulter has never supported feminist issues although she has benefited a lot with her nasty mouth.
1
Ann "hate-speech" Coulter who is backed by the Koch network to speak at universities where their money pays her speaker fees, as they have for similar people? (They plant reactionaries on campuses in several ways. She is just one example.) She is a victim? I think one of those hundred pound loads fell on your head. Ann is a daughter of the rich who makes her living trash-talking about people who are not white, straight, rich, and male. I am sure you fit right in there.
I have zero sympathy for your position.
I have zero sympathy for your position.
It has recently occurred to me that until.a greater percentage of women take an interest in the US government and their legal rights, sexual harassment in both business and academia will continue to prevail.
Women also need to take stock of where their hard-earned tax dollars are going and decide whether they wish to go on funding a government that spends more on war than on education and health, as well as job training and scientific research.
They need to understand that the power of the purse is much greater than advertising expenditures at a major TV network. They may also begin to wonder whether the tacitly accepted culture of sexual.harassment and discrimination against gays is just the tip of the iceberg in a society that values might over right.
The recent news stories on United Airlines and Fox TV may usefully start to challenge the status quo.
Women also need to take stock of where their hard-earned tax dollars are going and decide whether they wish to go on funding a government that spends more on war than on education and health, as well as job training and scientific research.
They need to understand that the power of the purse is much greater than advertising expenditures at a major TV network. They may also begin to wonder whether the tacitly accepted culture of sexual.harassment and discrimination against gays is just the tip of the iceberg in a society that values might over right.
The recent news stories on United Airlines and Fox TV may usefully start to challenge the status quo.
11
No demographic in the history of the world has deserved less sympathy than what it has actually received than the 21st Century American woman. There are so many exaggerations, half-truths and outright falsehoods in this story and the "studies" relied upon.
Male athletes are paid more. Sexism? No, ratings and viewership are higher. There are more male doctors. Sexism? No, more women choose to be nurses for better work-life balance. Far more men die on the job than women. Sexism? No, men choose to work these dangerous professions because they pay a bit more. Fewer women serve on boards. Sexism? No, fewer women continue the climb due to child rearing. More men are physicists. Sexism? No, fewer women choose to study physics. Men in sales are paid more in the aggregate. Sexism? No, they work more hours in the aggregate.
Regarding harassment - how many women lie and exaggerate their claims for money? Thousands and thousands. How many women (and men) sleep with superiors to get promoted? Thousands and thousands. How many women lie about being abused in marriage to get more money in the divorce or custody of the kids? Thousands and thousands.
The empresses have no clothes. And they certainly aren't victims.
Male athletes are paid more. Sexism? No, ratings and viewership are higher. There are more male doctors. Sexism? No, more women choose to be nurses for better work-life balance. Far more men die on the job than women. Sexism? No, men choose to work these dangerous professions because they pay a bit more. Fewer women serve on boards. Sexism? No, fewer women continue the climb due to child rearing. More men are physicists. Sexism? No, fewer women choose to study physics. Men in sales are paid more in the aggregate. Sexism? No, they work more hours in the aggregate.
Regarding harassment - how many women lie and exaggerate their claims for money? Thousands and thousands. How many women (and men) sleep with superiors to get promoted? Thousands and thousands. How many women lie about being abused in marriage to get more money in the divorce or custody of the kids? Thousands and thousands.
The empresses have no clothes. And they certainly aren't victims.
14
How do you feel about men helping out more with the child rearing? Or is that necessarily unpaid women's work?
1
As usual moral structures in the real world is never clear. We are of human bondage.
The sexism starts at an early age, since birth even, which is the reason the latter issues manifest. I learnt this as an immigrant who would be considered successful and believed I would be, when I first came here at age 17 and didn't quite get why certain (groups of) people couldn't work as hard/smart as I did and "make it." Then I saw the way they were treated/perceived by the rest of society, which is a very small thing from person to person and time to time, but in the aggregate, it amounts to a systematic pressure (and I myself never had/have been treated that way). It takes a lot of self confidence to say "screw all the naysayers, I'm going to do what I want." To develop this self confidence requires good parents and teachers who will nurture your growth, and that's what's missing. It's a massive cycle and there are no easy solutions.
1
I believe there is a deeper issue here that isn't being discussed. It is the continued emasculation of the male in our school systems. It is not for nothing that more women than men now go onto college.
The masculine is struggling for survival in a feminine world. Nature is feminine. Men don't birth babies. The masculine seeks expression in the outside world, a world now more heavily invaded by the feminine and they are feeling themselves being subsumed. That's very dangerous for a sane society.
In grade school, little Susie sticks her tongue out at little Johnny and shouts "Nyah, Nayh". Then little Johnny points his finger and says "Bang". Guess who gets kicked out of school. It isn't Susie.
Further, we make a huge societal mistake putting same age boys and girls together in school. Girls at school age develop more quickly than boys. Nature favors the feminine because they carry on the population. Just a fact. Boys are always disadvantaged in that respect. If we were smart, we'd even the playing field and put five-year-old girls with six-year-old boys.
All of this plays out unconsciously in the work place where the masculine is intent on not being subsumed anymore. So, the pay inequality, etc., are all just symptoms of a deeper psychological issue from childhood. See Iron John by Robert Bly. Also, John Sanford's books on male and female relationships.
The masculine is struggling for survival in a feminine world. Nature is feminine. Men don't birth babies. The masculine seeks expression in the outside world, a world now more heavily invaded by the feminine and they are feeling themselves being subsumed. That's very dangerous for a sane society.
In grade school, little Susie sticks her tongue out at little Johnny and shouts "Nyah, Nayh". Then little Johnny points his finger and says "Bang". Guess who gets kicked out of school. It isn't Susie.
Further, we make a huge societal mistake putting same age boys and girls together in school. Girls at school age develop more quickly than boys. Nature favors the feminine because they carry on the population. Just a fact. Boys are always disadvantaged in that respect. If we were smart, we'd even the playing field and put five-year-old girls with six-year-old boys.
All of this plays out unconsciously in the work place where the masculine is intent on not being subsumed anymore. So, the pay inequality, etc., are all just symptoms of a deeper psychological issue from childhood. See Iron John by Robert Bly. Also, John Sanford's books on male and female relationships.
5
You don't see the difference between tongue waging and "bang." As a male child at 8, the son of a hunter and a kid who use to read gun catalogs, I knew the difference. Taunting is one thing. Bang is a whole nother mind set. I am chilled and deeply concerned/worried you cite this as an example of discrimination and what you call the emasculation of young males. Your views exceed the status quo, and frankly, illustrate the problem--and its systematic, counter-narrative denial.
20
Oh, poor baby! Did those naughty girls outsmart you? The hussies! How dare they! Everybody knows that boys are frail, none too bright, and their little egos need constant stroking. Then, they go to school, and it is full of girls! Why aren't they back home helping mommy pluck the chicken and churn the butter so you can have a nice dinner when you come home. Well, at least you can best them in your paycheck, dear. That and the right to harass them should mollify your tender sensibilities a bit. Mommy will come tuck you in as soon as she finishes changing the tire on the car.
1
would have been the superior name for the O'Reilly Factor, paraphrasing his children book "Give please a chance".
Male predatory entitlement is a problem that don't stop for no aisle, school, church or commerce, when it spots young (female) flesh.
The Dems feature Bill Clinton, Jeffrey Epstein and Anthony Weiner, who set off some nuclear spinning in the depths of the rich vast right wing conspiracy minds that had them envy a conjured-up Democratic paradisiacal sex xanadu for decades, from which they constructed a pizza cellar child porn ring with their own hands-on minds to make sure voters would remember how bad the Democratic establishment had looked in some instances.
Andrea Tantaros described Fox News as a sex-fueled, Playboy-mansion like cult, steeped in intimidation, indecency and misogyny (predatory psychopathy born out of neediness - one you missed, Andrea), masquerading behind traditional family values.
Bill O'Reilly claimed blacks can't get any jobs, as they enter their interviews with tattoos on their forehead. And he's right. Not one black who did not get himself the plantation pigmentation tattoo.
As women got your entitlement tattooed on their curves, lustful lips and nipples, Mr. O'Reilly?
Andrea Tantaros was lucky she wasn't in the army like Carri Noling.
Or born in Romania, which would have ended her up trafficked to a European premium brothel with a well over 90% chance.
Carl Vinson, Houston, humanity: we keep keep bleeding and having a problem.
Male predatory entitlement is a problem that don't stop for no aisle, school, church or commerce, when it spots young (female) flesh.
The Dems feature Bill Clinton, Jeffrey Epstein and Anthony Weiner, who set off some nuclear spinning in the depths of the rich vast right wing conspiracy minds that had them envy a conjured-up Democratic paradisiacal sex xanadu for decades, from which they constructed a pizza cellar child porn ring with their own hands-on minds to make sure voters would remember how bad the Democratic establishment had looked in some instances.
Andrea Tantaros described Fox News as a sex-fueled, Playboy-mansion like cult, steeped in intimidation, indecency and misogyny (predatory psychopathy born out of neediness - one you missed, Andrea), masquerading behind traditional family values.
Bill O'Reilly claimed blacks can't get any jobs, as they enter their interviews with tattoos on their forehead. And he's right. Not one black who did not get himself the plantation pigmentation tattoo.
As women got your entitlement tattooed on their curves, lustful lips and nipples, Mr. O'Reilly?
Andrea Tantaros was lucky she wasn't in the army like Carri Noling.
Or born in Romania, which would have ended her up trafficked to a European premium brothel with a well over 90% chance.
Carl Vinson, Houston, humanity: we keep keep bleeding and having a problem.
3
Almost certainly the biggest loss for women in fighting sexual harassment was the general rush of feminists and liberals to support serial predator Bill Clinton, who as president continued a pattern of abuse that seems to have originated before taking office. Sadly, this hypocrisy continued when his wife Hillary Clinton choose to run for office. Her campaign continued to ignore Mr. Clinton's victims, which, one supposes, is an improvement over the campaign of intimidation Ms. Clinton led while serving as first lady.
17
I know of no females who defended Bill Clinton and certainly did not hold his wife accountable for his actions. What conflicted feminists was that a 20-something young woman with a massive ego zeroed in on a womanizer who happened to be president, just as other women seemed to have done in the past, while his wife's well-being was clearly not a priority of either Bill Clinton nor any of the women who pursued him over the decades.
2
Wow, MFW. Feminists, liberals and the Clintons were responsible for two solid decades of sexual harassment at Fox? You mean Roger Ailes and Bill O'Reilly would have treated women as their colleagues and equals, if only H.W. Bush had won in 1992? Anita Hill would have prevailed against Clarence Thomas? A crude Queens real estate heir would have kept his hands to himself all these years? "But...but...but the Clintons made me do it!"
They must be smoking some strong stuff down in Tampa these days.
They must be smoking some strong stuff down in Tampa these days.
2
The blatant and continuing discrimination against women in the business world must be considered the canary in the mind shaft. It signals that our businesses are not meritocracies. They are in fact fraternities, which rely on size to drive out competition. The productivity problem....
Consider the difference between Google with its predominance of white and Asian males and the New York Yankees. The Yankees only care about whether a player delivers an outspreading performance. As a result the team includes a fine mix of men from different races and nationalities.
Consider the difference between Google with its predominance of white and Asian males and the New York Yankees. The Yankees only care about whether a player delivers an outspreading performance. As a result the team includes a fine mix of men from different races and nationalities.
12
excellent comparison - thank you
I am 100% against women (or workers) getting less than they deserve but there is a larger control aspect than just the oppression of men or bosses. It is the acquiescence of the victims. If you want an abortion your path is blocked by millions of women as well as men. If you want a similar wage to a man your position is undermined by millions of women who are willing to take your job at a woman's (lower) wage. The same is true in a non-union car factory down south.
There may be no perfect answer but at least a partial solution is getting together and organizing. Women may feel it's beneath them or is unfair to their individuality but a lot of society's work is done by replaceable people who still deserve to be paid fairly. Getting together makes the powerless less so.
There may be no perfect answer but at least a partial solution is getting together and organizing. Women may feel it's beneath them or is unfair to their individuality but a lot of society's work is done by replaceable people who still deserve to be paid fairly. Getting together makes the powerless less so.
20
I don't think women fail to organize because they think it is beneath them. I think they are just scared of the retaliation. Far more women than men are the sole head of household, raising children on sub-par wages. If they lose their jobs, they aren't the only ones to suffer. Their children go hungry and are in danger of losing their home and thus their school. The fear of women benefits corporations who can and do discriminate them with little fear of reprisal. The women cannot afford to hire lawyers and cannot afford to be unemployed, so they feel cornered and endure what they do not believe they can cure.
I suspect there is a connection between our lack of social safety net programs to keep women and children housed, fed, and given medical care and the oppression women face. Fear is a powerful motivator. The longer the patriarchy can keep women insecure and fearful, the more money can be made on their backs.
I suspect there is a connection between our lack of social safety net programs to keep women and children housed, fed, and given medical care and the oppression women face. Fear is a powerful motivator. The longer the patriarchy can keep women insecure and fearful, the more money can be made on their backs.
I'm a 73 year old female. In the 60s, 70s, and into the 80s we were subjected to far more of this sort of thing than happens now, however, it is extremely disheartening to see how little progress has been made in the undercurrents of this behavior. I went into business and made more money than most of the men in my chosen field because working for others in that field had the same problems. I can't understand why there hasn't been more progress in equal pay and not being subjected to sexual harassment, particularly on the level that exists with the Aileses, a truly evil man and the Bill O'Reillys of the world. I have to enjoy Bill Maher's take on Bill O'Reilly. It seems with all his supposed power and money, he was so repugnant he doesn't seem to have found a way to be successful with his crude, awkward and unusually obvious attempts. It doesn't speak well for our civilization that women are subjected to this outrageously unfair treatment in the 21st Century. I can say women of my age who tried and tried have found some small measure of success escaping it but that's only because of some higher level of luck and persistence in finding a door to open that lead to success and security. It's gratifying to see men of these types ejected from the work place but it solves no problems for us really. In the final tally, it's all about the money. Unless it impacts the bottom line, these predators are allowed to continue.
72
Raise better sons. Even the enlightened and privileged women cannot seem to do this. Those women also far too often damage their daughters in order to elevate their sons. The misogyny begins at home as much as it is then in the larger society. Girls of all social strata are subjected to abuse and incest inside their own homes - often by those sons and husbands, while the women look the other way. Society needs to understand why that is.
3
I don't have any children at all. That was the sacrifice I willingly made for the success I had but most of my friends did have children and most had sons. They raised good sons but it's not that simple. There is the message fathers give their sons behind the scenes. There's peer pressure. There are a lot of men who were raised well and are great to women out there. Who knows what all the influences are that make someone understand this situation. What in the long run really makes us who we are seems to have something to do with the level of humanity and humaneness and empathy we're able to access.
Most of the countries in this world are patriarchal societies where the male dominates all aspects of life including political leadership, moral authority, social privilege and controls property.
What rights women have were given to them by men and there are men who would like to take away those rights when they see women challenging their authority. Many men think that the more women are treated equally to them, that it takes away their power over women.
This social system is still prevalent in most work forces. It is part of our culture and so is very difficult to change when it is ingrained in men and women what their roles in society are.
Until we have a more egalitarian society, little will change in people's attitudes about what is normal behavior for the sexes.
What rights women have were given to them by men and there are men who would like to take away those rights when they see women challenging their authority. Many men think that the more women are treated equally to them, that it takes away their power over women.
This social system is still prevalent in most work forces. It is part of our culture and so is very difficult to change when it is ingrained in men and women what their roles in society are.
Until we have a more egalitarian society, little will change in people's attitudes about what is normal behavior for the sexes.
35
The suffragettes, who were force-fed in prison for the crime of having the audacity to want the right to vote, would disagree with your characterization of having been "given" the right by men. No, they grabbed it with their own hands! They fought for decades, from the Civil War through the First World War, for that right. They were attacked, jailed, jeered at, humiliated, and suffered mightily for a right far too many women take for granted - just as younger women take for granted the right to abortion and birth control. Katie Stanton is rolling in her grave.
Power is NEVER given. It is taken by those who refuse to be oppressed any longer. And, yes, taking that power from men does interfere with their supposed right to abuse and oppress women. Poor babies! I am sure they want us to soothe their wounded pride.
Power is NEVER given. It is taken by those who refuse to be oppressed any longer. And, yes, taking that power from men does interfere with their supposed right to abuse and oppress women. Poor babies! I am sure they want us to soothe their wounded pride.
275
I think you are wrong there. Without the men giving them the right to vote, there is no way they would have gotten that right.
Sure, they had to make a lot of noise and march, etc. but in the end it was public pressure that made the men legislators give them that right.
Sure, they had to make a lot of noise and march, etc. but in the end it was public pressure that made the men legislators give them that right.
Really a very good point and it's a shame (or maybe to be expected, alas) that the article didn't point this out. You, Tom Petty, and many others are right.
Ya have to fight to be free.
Ya have to fight to be free.
Colonial women wereb often indentured servants. Slave women were owned by their Masters. Married women were controlled by their husbands. And women were not allowed to work outside of the home.
The Industrial Revolution exploded. Women were allowed to work long hours under strict supervision, but they could not vote, and some women opposed those women who demanded the franchise.
Congress talks about "real" rape. Legislators deny funding for victim support. College age rapist get away with incredibly light sentences. States deny a woman's right to choose and legislate intrusion into their bodies. the President of the United States denies 14 creditable accounts of groping and assault. Florida jailed a woman for defending her family against domestic violence. Mothers see their children shot dead in the streets.
Globally, violence against women is a tactic of war and terror. Women have a full dossier of cruelty and inequity to confront.
The Industrial Revolution exploded. Women were allowed to work long hours under strict supervision, but they could not vote, and some women opposed those women who demanded the franchise.
Congress talks about "real" rape. Legislators deny funding for victim support. College age rapist get away with incredibly light sentences. States deny a woman's right to choose and legislate intrusion into their bodies. the President of the United States denies 14 creditable accounts of groping and assault. Florida jailed a woman for defending her family against domestic violence. Mothers see their children shot dead in the streets.
Globally, violence against women is a tactic of war and terror. Women have a full dossier of cruelty and inequity to confront.
74
Many comments express the stereotypes and blame that women confront (yes, women are imperfect and socially conditioned; they have self-doubts and believe external criticisms)--but even the stereotypes and blaming prove the need for change--for a better system in which society is more sensitive to women's issues, and that new awareness and the accompanying behavioral change is not a partisan, political issue--it is an issue that must change judges and legislators as well as fathers and co-workers. Women, too, must change.
But isn't time to put blame aside and for all of us to become a part of the solution rather hanging on to our pet peeves as proof we are right. Wouldn't change be better?
But isn't time to put blame aside and for all of us to become a part of the solution rather hanging on to our pet peeves as proof we are right. Wouldn't change be better?
4
Just to review: O'Reilly's gone, Cosby's on trial, Billy Bush vanished, and Trump's president...
13
Guilty before the "tribunal". Interesting how the women are after the money. Gee, how time flies. Keep emasculating men. Ideas will be stifled. But who needs the likes of Shakespeare, Plato, Socrates, Bach, Ford, Edison, Jobs, Gates, and on and on. Have your feel good, drink the red wine moment, you want to survive, "man up" as the feminists like to say. By the way, I am a liberal.
4
Emasculating men? Yeah you're a liberal.
2
You're a liberal. Please don't make me laugh. The only one that has emasculated you is YOURSELF with lies and Faux News.
4
All the women involved in the O'Reilly scandal did not sue for money, in particular the main one responsible for bringing him down. Nor the one he called "Hot Chocolate". One has to wonder what's wrong with a man who would utter that to a clerk who has no power and think he was being what, clever? Complimentary? It's laughable. If there's no justice in action and behavior, at least there's monetary compensation.
1
Real Journalism. Like nowhere else.
Then why ignore one of the leading scholars on the topic of the gender wage gap? Because she is a woman? Claudia Goldin, a professor of economics at Harvard University, has spent years researching gender economics. Her conclusion is that gender discrimination has little, if anything, to do with the wage gap. Google her name and familiarise yourself with her compelling research.
As for the news about the $65M paid to O'Reilly and Ailes. Good journalism. I did not see that anywhere else. Bravo. Well done.
Let's hope an investor lawsuit is brought against Fox and its board for wasting the shareholder's money. And we see another set of lawsuits to claw back that $65M.
Then why ignore one of the leading scholars on the topic of the gender wage gap? Because she is a woman? Claudia Goldin, a professor of economics at Harvard University, has spent years researching gender economics. Her conclusion is that gender discrimination has little, if anything, to do with the wage gap. Google her name and familiarise yourself with her compelling research.
As for the news about the $65M paid to O'Reilly and Ailes. Good journalism. I did not see that anywhere else. Bravo. Well done.
Let's hope an investor lawsuit is brought against Fox and its board for wasting the shareholder's money. And we see another set of lawsuits to claw back that $65M.
17
There has been fallout with one more firing of one more powerful and wealthy sexual predator at Fox. 21st Century Fox, I believe that's the parent company also run and owned in large part by the Murdochs, wanted a lucrative contract in England which has now been denied because of this. One has to remember the genesis of Rupert Murdoch's great success was a gossipy rag that brought itself down with lies and hacking. England seems to have more conscience and sense than in the U.S. The main reason they ousted O'Reilly when they did was to prove they were morally fit. Too little too late apparently.
6
For women and men who voted for Trump knowing that he bragged of his sexual assaults on women, shame on you. For Fox News viewers who supported sexual predators Roger Ailes and Bill O'Reilly, shame on you.
Yes, it is true that for women, it's not just the O'Reilly problem, it is a societal problem that devalues and demeans women not only in this country but throughout the world.
Elizabeth Cady Stanton in 1848 at the Women's Rights Convention in Seneca Falls listed grievances stemming from the "usurpations on the part of men towards women."
Almost 170 years later women have the same grievances. O'Reilly is just a despicable symbol of white male privilege. But having the electoral college cast their votes for this so called president who is vile in his misogyny is an insult to all women.
Today is Earth Day and our Mother is crying out against her defilement. Trump wants to rape and plunder her of coal, poison the streams and air that will hurt her creatures, because he believes it is in his power to do so.
Just as advertisers ran away from O'Reilly when they realized they would lose profits, the Republican party is on notice to distance itself from Trump.
We women have long memories and the powers to persevere. As Sojourner Truth said:
"If the first woman God ever made was strong enough to turn the world upside down all alone, these women together ought to turn it back and get it right side
up again. And now they is asking to do it,the men better let them!"
Yes, it is true that for women, it's not just the O'Reilly problem, it is a societal problem that devalues and demeans women not only in this country but throughout the world.
Elizabeth Cady Stanton in 1848 at the Women's Rights Convention in Seneca Falls listed grievances stemming from the "usurpations on the part of men towards women."
Almost 170 years later women have the same grievances. O'Reilly is just a despicable symbol of white male privilege. But having the electoral college cast their votes for this so called president who is vile in his misogyny is an insult to all women.
Today is Earth Day and our Mother is crying out against her defilement. Trump wants to rape and plunder her of coal, poison the streams and air that will hurt her creatures, because he believes it is in his power to do so.
Just as advertisers ran away from O'Reilly when they realized they would lose profits, the Republican party is on notice to distance itself from Trump.
We women have long memories and the powers to persevere. As Sojourner Truth said:
"If the first woman God ever made was strong enough to turn the world upside down all alone, these women together ought to turn it back and get it right side
up again. And now they is asking to do it,the men better let them!"
27
Many who voted Trump believed Ivanka that we saw innocent locker room braggadocio to impress the fellas with something not worth the fuss and that her father was really very different, as she has witnessed him all her life.
They were also deeply and truly convinced the Democrats and their gang, like Anthony Weiner and Jeffrey Epstein, were the far more depraven.
They saw Trump against the backdrop of a church supporting him, and those in charge in the church know in a holified way whom they support and why.
And they think some exhaust fumes are a healthy medicine to the earth.
8 years of Obama had brought economic gridlock and Syria and Isis, in their eyes.
That did not make them feel safe, and don't get them started on stifling regulations killing jobs. As a successful businessman, he would mend that.
Not how much women get paid, but whether their men would bring home a good pay might well have been their concern. And that he don't lose his job to an illegal alien.
All they went for in the voting booth was hope and change, and "to get things right side up again."
They were also deeply and truly convinced the Democrats and their gang, like Anthony Weiner and Jeffrey Epstein, were the far more depraven.
They saw Trump against the backdrop of a church supporting him, and those in charge in the church know in a holified way whom they support and why.
And they think some exhaust fumes are a healthy medicine to the earth.
8 years of Obama had brought economic gridlock and Syria and Isis, in their eyes.
That did not make them feel safe, and don't get them started on stifling regulations killing jobs. As a successful businessman, he would mend that.
Not how much women get paid, but whether their men would bring home a good pay might well have been their concern. And that he don't lose his job to an illegal alien.
All they went for in the voting booth was hope and change, and "to get things right side up again."
3
The sort of corporate dishonesty and spin exhibited by Fox in handling O'Reilly and Ailes is the real problem, and it affects much more than the sexual abuse of women. We saw it also in how Wells Fargo handled its recent difficulties. As long as this is normal corporate behavior, accepted as such by most, and deplored by some as if it were unusual, only small changes will be won. And these changes will be used to hide the true intractability of the problem by providing false evidence that it can easily be, and is being, addressed and fixed.
People think much too highly of corporations, partly because of corporate public relations and spin and partially because many of us work for corporations and do not like to accept that we are part of an enterprise that is set up to care about money and nothing else. Corporations have the morality of a cat, which will refrain from doing things you do not want it to do only when you are around, and sometimes not even then. Our corporate cats are useful, and we have nothing to replace them with that is as productive as they are. But that should not mean that we kid ourselves about what makes them tick.
People think much too highly of corporations, partly because of corporate public relations and spin and partially because many of us work for corporations and do not like to accept that we are part of an enterprise that is set up to care about money and nothing else. Corporations have the morality of a cat, which will refrain from doing things you do not want it to do only when you are around, and sometimes not even then. Our corporate cats are useful, and we have nothing to replace them with that is as productive as they are. But that should not mean that we kid ourselves about what makes them tick.
13
Well said, sdavidc9. The classic irony of the marriage between unchecked capitalism and democracy dictates that corporations are themselves pockets of authoritatian cultures within the larger democratic culture. In also classic authoritatian form, they continue to tend towards misogyny, homophobia, etc, even now in the 21st century. Not only was/is trickle-down a collossal hoax where economics is concerned, the fact that corporations still try to package themselves as beacons of ethics and integrity is nothing short of astounding. The unbridled hypocrisy and condescension is breathtaking.
2
None of the women with whom Fox settled because of O'Reilly's behavior got a severance package like his. He is still getting far more, despite being an [alleged and multiply confirmed] abuser, than any of his [alleged, very believable] victims will get in compensation.
26
Numerous assertions in the editorial misstate the nature of contemporary life, painting women in the U.S. as uniquely in danger when, overall, women are safer even than children. It also emphasizes a very few jobs at the top ignoring, as the NYTimes invariably does, that men take most of the millions of dirtiest, most dangerous jobs at the bottom. Sexual assault against women is mentioned variously, a terrible problem to be sure, but if it is, why does the NYTimes so rarely mention that more men in the U.S. are raped each year than women?
Is it sometimes difficult for women to call attention to sexual harassment? Of course it is and no one should diminish that, but put that in the context of regular prime time hilarity at the idea of a man being raped, even gang raped, in prison.
In truth, women in the U.S. have been receiving preferential treatment in nearly every area of life for 50 years, to the point where women now lead men in 9 of 10 critical quality of life areas:
Longevity, health, health care spending (even after accounting for maternal and reproductive care), education, suicide, homeless, preferential treatment in the criminal justice system, reproductive rights (men have none, of course), and violent crime victimization. In all these areas women do better than men, often far better, yet we still have massive programs in place in many areas to make sure women do even better.
The problem before us is serious, but needs context.
Is it sometimes difficult for women to call attention to sexual harassment? Of course it is and no one should diminish that, but put that in the context of regular prime time hilarity at the idea of a man being raped, even gang raped, in prison.
In truth, women in the U.S. have been receiving preferential treatment in nearly every area of life for 50 years, to the point where women now lead men in 9 of 10 critical quality of life areas:
Longevity, health, health care spending (even after accounting for maternal and reproductive care), education, suicide, homeless, preferential treatment in the criminal justice system, reproductive rights (men have none, of course), and violent crime victimization. In all these areas women do better than men, often far better, yet we still have massive programs in place in many areas to make sure women do even better.
The problem before us is serious, but needs context.
11
Yes, context matters. The question is who is deciding who gets what treatment, and I submit these decisions are being made by men about women, rather than the other way around, generally (on average). Take one of your own specific examples, violent crime victimisation. Violent crimes are committed way more often by men than by women (I've come across statistics as high as 90%) and so it goes to reason that a disproportionate number are women. So there's the context - what you call preferential treatment may not be preferential enough. But that's still not the point. These decisions about what constitutes a violent crime are made by men, not so much women. Women take what they can get, and so in some areas there may be a perceived imbalance.
At the same time, I agree there's a kernel of truth about playing the victim card and I think it'll take generations of education of our sons and daughters to achieve parity in the right context. Until then we'll stumble about back and forth.
When I was younger, I used to hear this more often than I do now but I still hear it and it's mostly one way: women wished they had been born as men, but men didn't want to be born as a woman. It's rarer now but I still know a few women who feel this way (but very rarely or never any men), for a variety of reasons. Why is this? If it was better to be a woman, would you agree it would have been better if you had been born as one? (Forgetting about your own specific identity for a second.)
At the same time, I agree there's a kernel of truth about playing the victim card and I think it'll take generations of education of our sons and daughters to achieve parity in the right context. Until then we'll stumble about back and forth.
When I was younger, I used to hear this more often than I do now but I still hear it and it's mostly one way: women wished they had been born as men, but men didn't want to be born as a woman. It's rarer now but I still know a few women who feel this way (but very rarely or never any men), for a variety of reasons. Why is this? If it was better to be a woman, would you agree it would have been better if you had been born as one? (Forgetting about your own specific identity for a second.)
3
Um, context is great, but this essay's thesis is clearly more surgical than the sweeping, overall report card on the state of female life in the U.S. you seek to employ, making your response clearly out of context. Like it or not, the statistics provided in relation to the supporting prose are both accurate and verifiable. Reaching beyond the scope of the thesis to sound learned and articulate isn't helpful, and in this case, seems hopelessly........condescending. Hmmm.
1
Wait...what? For 50 years women and girls have fought tooth and nail to become educated and protect themselves from all the males around them forever trying to drag them down, even to the extent of holding them hostage to fear of attack, rape and murder the moment they step too far outside the piddly norm that evolved for females in the U.S. after WWII. SOME females have achieved over the last 50 years because those few had a support system as children and the grit to not get dragged down by the many slings and arrows that perpetually came their way after puberty.
Women don't live longer than men in many areas of this nation, and certainly not in other parts of the world. Women's health is also in crisis due to the male dominated medical community and Big Pharma still using the male as its standard, when we know women's bodies react differently to cancers and heart disease and pharmaceuticals. Btw, 1 in 3 American women DOES have heart disease. If you did not know that, then I rest my case.
Women don't live longer than men in many areas of this nation, and certainly not in other parts of the world. Women's health is also in crisis due to the male dominated medical community and Big Pharma still using the male as its standard, when we know women's bodies react differently to cancers and heart disease and pharmaceuticals. Btw, 1 in 3 American women DOES have heart disease. If you did not know that, then I rest my case.
3
It sickens me that Fox paid $65 million to two lecherous misogynists who by all rights should have been sued for even more than that by the women they abused. I hope that Fox sinks in its own slime and goes off the air-it certainly deserves to.
32
The New York Times's newsroom is more male-dominated than its peers, and your previous editor-in-chief was forced out when she requested the same pay as her male predecessor. This paper has also produced sexist coverage of Hillary Clinton for nearly 30 years. Try looking in the mirror.
74
The NY Times is always inspiring in its crusade for social justice. The best way to lead is by example. The last - and only - executive editor of the Times was Jill Abramson who left in a haze of accusations about unfair treatment and compensation. Let the Times publish a study of its staff salaries and whether women are paid the same as men for equal work. Then, the Times can lecture the rest of us.
85
It's always amusing when readers interpret an informative article as a lecture. It says a lot about the reader.
If women are as capable as men, then let them start their own businesses and big corporations and pay themselves whatever they wish. The glass ceiling is only a myth.
7
Clearly not very curious -- the discrimination against women also applies to financing sources for businesses like bank loans, venture capital and private equity. You might try a little homework before pronouncing your myth.
5
Don't worry, soon there will be a law that only women will be able to run a business. I am a democrat but I completely understand why the male species is in an uproar. For over 4 million years nature has put man on top of the intelligence and food chain. Now we are told not so fast by the left. It won't hold. The cream rises to the top.
In addition, there is a major gap between men and women on all the quantitative (mathematical) standardized tests, such as the SAT, GRE, etc. There is also a major paucity of female patents, especially in tech fields, and any company must be built on innovation. If women are not able to start their own companies, why would existing companies want to hire them as CEOs or board members?
The problem is access to capital, as some have opined? You mean banks and venture capitalists would forego a chance to make major bucks on the next big thing because the inventor was a woman? Puleaze.
The problem is access to capital, as some have opined? You mean banks and venture capitalists would forego a chance to make major bucks on the next big thing because the inventor was a woman? Puleaze.
Gender bias in addition to racism were the major factors determinants for Trump voters according to studies. In another article today, the top 20 advisers to Trump include 18 men (and all are white). To level the playing field for women and minorities, there must be mechanisms such as the law or unions. Discrimination is worse than ever.
The Fox variant was obvious from watching the programming, the leg cams, the sleeveless short dresses, the usually blonde hair, the sandwiching of a woman seen from just below her skirt between two men as the main format for "Fox & Friends". Octogenarian Rupert Murdoch (one of Trump's closest advisers) was famous in the tabloid world for introducing the Page 3 topless glamor shots objectifying women, and recently in 2015 when The Sun first dropped and then re-added it, Murdoch tweeted a la Trump, "Much fuss and publicity in UK as horrible elites yak on about Page 3."
This is Trump World where women's looks matter more than their abilities. On March 27th, Trump ended the Obama "Fair Pay and Safe Workplaces" order that made companies with federal contracts comply with labor and civil rights laws. Two rules for women in the workplace then went down the drain - paycheck transparency and forced arbitration for sexual harassment, sexual assault, and discrimination claims (especially important for Trump personally). Trump wants to eliminate the federal minimum wage.
Going backwards to sexist primordial sludge in Trump SwampLand.
The Fox variant was obvious from watching the programming, the leg cams, the sleeveless short dresses, the usually blonde hair, the sandwiching of a woman seen from just below her skirt between two men as the main format for "Fox & Friends". Octogenarian Rupert Murdoch (one of Trump's closest advisers) was famous in the tabloid world for introducing the Page 3 topless glamor shots objectifying women, and recently in 2015 when The Sun first dropped and then re-added it, Murdoch tweeted a la Trump, "Much fuss and publicity in UK as horrible elites yak on about Page 3."
This is Trump World where women's looks matter more than their abilities. On March 27th, Trump ended the Obama "Fair Pay and Safe Workplaces" order that made companies with federal contracts comply with labor and civil rights laws. Two rules for women in the workplace then went down the drain - paycheck transparency and forced arbitration for sexual harassment, sexual assault, and discrimination claims (especially important for Trump personally). Trump wants to eliminate the federal minimum wage.
Going backwards to sexist primordial sludge in Trump SwampLand.
14
It's hardly just Fox, though. Every news show -- especially the local ones -- features young, very good looking females paired with distinguished, aging males. The women are discarded when they hit around 40 (or lose their looks, or gain weight). We have some local male newscasters who have served for decades, but the "pretty blondes" last a few seasons and then are rotated out.
2
The election showed that sexual harassment is alive and well AND tolerated as normal for women. To the point that many of them voted for the sexual assaulter. That so many women accept this as part and parcel of everyday life is very sad. The stockroom syndrome is alive and we have ample evidence it exists. We must put a stop to this.
10
In reading the Editorial nothing really new to me in the disparity towards women popped up. And I kept saying to myself why in the hell don’t the women in the workplace unionize. Then towards the end of the article it is mentioned. There is just so much power in unions. Where I worked for 35 years we had a designers union that comprised about a third of the company employees and they determined what the rest of us received in our annual increases. Not until sometime after working for the company did I realize the designers union was doing the heavy lifting for the rest of us.
But that’s just a part of it. Unions represent you and only you. Have a sexual harassment situation you don’t go to the company, the union will handle it and they “do not” need a “hotline”. They are the “hotline”. I’m in my 70’s and in so many articles I read about the injustices towards women, minorities, low wage earners, etc. I see a solution or at least a good start to a turnaround. Unions.
Ask yourself this question. Why do companies resist having unions? Down deep we all know the answer. My answer is “control of the worker” in all respects. Then ask why do so many Southern and Midwestern states have “Right to Work” laws? A similar answer. Their union killing laws to discourage organized labor and take away your rights in the workplace.
Unions are a good start to equality!
But that’s just a part of it. Unions represent you and only you. Have a sexual harassment situation you don’t go to the company, the union will handle it and they “do not” need a “hotline”. They are the “hotline”. I’m in my 70’s and in so many articles I read about the injustices towards women, minorities, low wage earners, etc. I see a solution or at least a good start to a turnaround. Unions.
Ask yourself this question. Why do companies resist having unions? Down deep we all know the answer. My answer is “control of the worker” in all respects. Then ask why do so many Southern and Midwestern states have “Right to Work” laws? A similar answer. Their union killing laws to discourage organized labor and take away your rights in the workplace.
Unions are a good start to equality!
15
This is absolutely true. It's anecdotal, but I've seen this in my own union workplace. A young woman in the cafeteria was constantly harassed by her supervisor. She was close to quitting, but the union went to bat for her and filed a grievance. The supervisor ended up losing his job. Without the union, she might have quit in frustration and a predator would go on to harass others. People think they are too special and high and mighty to be part of a union, but I thank my union for my benefits and protections!
7
"Right to work" laws do not affect unions at all; they simply allow workers to CHOOSE whether or not to join one. It is telling you wish to make this mandatory.
Unions in the US destroyed themselves, with greedy demands and corruption.
There are no laws that prevent unions. The reality is that American workers don't seem to want or desire unions, because they have seen too many unions that resulted in jobs being sent overseas (rather than companies kowtow to strikes and demands).
The left just doesn't GET this. You want unions? go unionized Walmart. There's your target -- they have 2 MILLION employees. If you cannot unionized Walmart, you've lost total control of the narrative and almost all power. Get out of your lounge chair and DO SOMETHING. Talk is cheap!
Unions in the US destroyed themselves, with greedy demands and corruption.
There are no laws that prevent unions. The reality is that American workers don't seem to want or desire unions, because they have seen too many unions that resulted in jobs being sent overseas (rather than companies kowtow to strikes and demands).
The left just doesn't GET this. You want unions? go unionized Walmart. There's your target -- they have 2 MILLION employees. If you cannot unionized Walmart, you've lost total control of the narrative and almost all power. Get out of your lounge chair and DO SOMETHING. Talk is cheap!
1
"Unions are also needed.."
You guys are going to have to get over trying to catch that liberal unicorn- Those days are coming to a slow and painful end. Right to work laws are being implemented in red states [Red- because Democrats do not bother to vote in local and state elections] and soon the entire country will fall within that scope. Unions themselves need to be overhauled and streamlined to embrace the fact that you can no longer pay a high school graduate $45 dollars an hour to work in a union run shop. Technology and automation are transforming manufacturing. Take the Ports in Long Beach, CA- For years they have been trying to switch from hand written, multi-colored carbon copies to a digital scan system. The unions fight the change in order to preserve $165,000 a year jobs for 12 people when it can now be done by a single person. Unless the unions wake up and smell the coffee - they will ALL be out of work. It's survival of the fittest now and it doesn't matter which sex you are..
You guys are going to have to get over trying to catch that liberal unicorn- Those days are coming to a slow and painful end. Right to work laws are being implemented in red states [Red- because Democrats do not bother to vote in local and state elections] and soon the entire country will fall within that scope. Unions themselves need to be overhauled and streamlined to embrace the fact that you can no longer pay a high school graduate $45 dollars an hour to work in a union run shop. Technology and automation are transforming manufacturing. Take the Ports in Long Beach, CA- For years they have been trying to switch from hand written, multi-colored carbon copies to a digital scan system. The unions fight the change in order to preserve $165,000 a year jobs for 12 people when it can now be done by a single person. Unless the unions wake up and smell the coffee - they will ALL be out of work. It's survival of the fittest now and it doesn't matter which sex you are..
1
But that's why people JOIN A UNION -- to make $45 for a low skilled job.
The unions that still exist are mostly PUBLIC unions. My district is in the Rustbelt Midwest, yet we pay public union schoolteachers here $52,000 to start -- age 22, no experience at all -- 6 hours a day, 180 days a year, 14 weeks paid vacation from day one -- tenure after 3 years. At that point, they are no more "skilled" than an Uber driver. But the union pays them 35% above the average local median wage! and with gold-plated benefits for life and early retirement and a huge pension.
THAT IS WHY PEOPLE WANT UNIONS. But unions are also against change and efficiency, as you point out clearly here. They pad jobs, and demand redundancy, and threaten strikes unless they get very high wages -- unrelated to actual skills or demand.
Unions have been dying in the US for 40 years.
The unions that still exist are mostly PUBLIC unions. My district is in the Rustbelt Midwest, yet we pay public union schoolteachers here $52,000 to start -- age 22, no experience at all -- 6 hours a day, 180 days a year, 14 weeks paid vacation from day one -- tenure after 3 years. At that point, they are no more "skilled" than an Uber driver. But the union pays them 35% above the average local median wage! and with gold-plated benefits for life and early retirement and a huge pension.
THAT IS WHY PEOPLE WANT UNIONS. But unions are also against change and efficiency, as you point out clearly here. They pad jobs, and demand redundancy, and threaten strikes unless they get very high wages -- unrelated to actual skills or demand.
Unions have been dying in the US for 40 years.
1
"Another result is sexual harassment, as economically vulnerable women tolerate abuse." Unequal pay for women and sexual harrassment or abuse are two areas which urgently need to be explored and corrected. But that won't happen as long as the New York Times makes absurd statements like the one above. All those women who were harrassed at Fox can not be described in any way as "economically vulnerable women:" Yet they tolerated abuse for years.
There is much more to this story. How did an electorate which is 53% women elect the most anti-women president in our lifetime. What compunction led them to tolerate President Trump? Your facts and your theories and your remedies need rethinking.
There is much more to this story. How did an electorate which is 53% women elect the most anti-women president in our lifetime. What compunction led them to tolerate President Trump? Your facts and your theories and your remedies need rethinking.
6
The women at Fox were very beautiful....young...talented...and earned millions of dollars a year. Plenty enough to take a walk rather than stay working with a pervert boss who flirts with you! Yet they stayed on -- presumably for the fame & money.
1
"Social media has amplified the power of speaking out..." Of course, before Twitter and Facebook, all media were social media and they remain so. The many non-media corporations are much more resistant to booting out the sexists, misogynists, and sexual harassers than any media corporation with a public face like O'Reilly.
2
I'm with Bruce R. Women, until you look your female colleagues in the eye and ask them in all seriousness, why in holy hell they keep voting for men who oppress them, nothing will change. The imbecilic and quite misogynistic so called president we have is a prime example of this. Dems are not pure as the driven snow in this by any means, but Republicans own the brand of female oppression, yet women keep electing them. WHY?
37
Byron: yet women keep electing them. WHY?
These women have been inculcated, from before day one of their lives, into the Patriarchal Way.
Years ago I witnessed, when this Why question was asked, a woman replied:
"Because my husband told me to."
These women have been inculcated, from before day one of their lives, into the Patriarchal Way.
Years ago I witnessed, when this Why question was asked, a woman replied:
"Because my husband told me to."
2
No, certainly it's not JUST the O'Reilly problem.
But women everywhere can take pride in fact that they took down a brutish, conniving, insult-slinging ignoramus who just happened to have deep influence in a segment of our debilitated electorate.
If even the Murdochs get the message(!), can further progress be far behind?
Regards,
JV
But women everywhere can take pride in fact that they took down a brutish, conniving, insult-slinging ignoramus who just happened to have deep influence in a segment of our debilitated electorate.
If even the Murdochs get the message(!), can further progress be far behind?
Regards,
JV
12
A Martian landing on earth in late 2016 would conclude the following: some people make a lot of money or become POTUS even after sexual misconduct even while others lose their jobs or go to jail for much lesser crimes.
13
A Martian landing on Earth in late 2016 would conclude the following: Half of the human population lives in fear of the other half and is subjugated to horrific atrocities in many places, while the the other half of the human population that is male is violent, predatory, cowardly narcissist or just clueless.
Call me insensitive, but I have little sympathy for careerist women who were quite willing to misprision the values of journalism for the sake of getting a gig at Fox News, and are now trying to sanctimoniously pile on about having been sexually harassed.
Even these women knew that Fox News was not about journalism. And now they're trying to pretend that all of the Roger Ailes and Billl O'Reilly stuff was not assumed to be part of the package deal?
Do they really think that they were hired on their merits as journalists? As, for example, Rachel Maddow was?
Even these women knew that Fox News was not about journalism. And now they're trying to pretend that all of the Roger Ailes and Billl O'Reilly stuff was not assumed to be part of the package deal?
Do they really think that they were hired on their merits as journalists? As, for example, Rachel Maddow was?
11
Ummm, while I can't stand Fox News, and I don't care for either the men or women who carry (or carried) its water, that doesn't mean it's not subject to the laws against harassment and discrimination, or that the women working for it don't deserve protection from such behavior. No matter what the motivation in hiring them was.
2
So you're saying what Ailes and O'Reilly did was okay? If women wanted to work at Fox, sexual harassment was the price they had to pay, and they chose it? No comments from you about whether the disgusting harassment of women by the men in power was fundamentally and objectively bad? Your argument fails.
5
Hmm you seem to have forgotten that MEN make the largest percentage of the workforce at Faux News. How about their values and morals? They work for a corporation that has REPEATEDLY LIED about multiple issues and of course the well known sex harassment. How come you aren't calling on the men of Faux News to stand up for what is right and proper? I guess you only consider females to be money grubbing and the men well they just once again get a pass
4
It would be nice if we also had a way to look at women in healthcare and other professions. Medical students and others being hit on by senior colleagues who have significant say in their careers. Fox News is a deserving target. Lets keep draining those swamps.
18
It is very difficult to imagine any true progress in our society while the President (and of course supporter of O'Reilly) is himself a documented and self-described sexual predator. So long as Trump remains in office the whole cause is poisoned.
40
From a pure business sense the only way to change Fox news and their behavior is solely through their sponsors (corporations)
Their viewers care not a whit about any of this as witnessed by their voting for Trump, an admitted sex offender.
But the sponsors care about their image outside of Fox viewers.
Corporations strangely are becoming the representative of the majority of the voters while the government is of the minority
Another example is what happened with North Carolina and the transgender situation
We in the majority of voters need to bypass government and look for capitalistic representation - corporations
The governments self interest is elections not the majority anymore
Follow the money is even a bigger idea now
Their viewers care not a whit about any of this as witnessed by their voting for Trump, an admitted sex offender.
But the sponsors care about their image outside of Fox viewers.
Corporations strangely are becoming the representative of the majority of the voters while the government is of the minority
Another example is what happened with North Carolina and the transgender situation
We in the majority of voters need to bypass government and look for capitalistic representation - corporations
The governments self interest is elections not the majority anymore
Follow the money is even a bigger idea now
18
Millions of households in America are headed by single mothers and their dependent children. These women need to earn on average the same as their male peers. Without pay equality we're not only penalizing women but their children as well. This in itself is reprehensible.
41
The first female executive editor at this paper, Jill Abramson, was fired according to credible reports - after confronting her male superiors about the fact that her pay and pension benefits were significantly lower than that of her male predecessors. Oh, and she was "pushy." Her appointment - in a newspaper once sued by female employees for discrimination - had been touted as a boon for the advancement of women in media. She didn't last three years. Turn out the Uber problem is a Walmart problem is a Fox problem is a New York Times problem and on and on since women joined the workforce decades ago. No institution can throw stones, and that includes this one.
287
I'm 63 now but when I was young I was very beautiful.
When the Thomas /Hill hearings were going on , my own
brother said to me , " well why didn't she just quit
her job?" I replied, " if I had quit every job where I was
sexually harassed, I would have been unemployed
my whole life."
And I have STILLhad to put up with it in my 50s
and 60s. Harassment of women by men is very real
and very insidious. I love men and most are not
harassers. But a lot of them are including the current
sexual predator in the White House who openly
admits to lusting after his own daughter and admiring
Bill Reilly.
When the Thomas /Hill hearings were going on , my own
brother said to me , " well why didn't she just quit
her job?" I replied, " if I had quit every job where I was
sexually harassed, I would have been unemployed
my whole life."
And I have STILLhad to put up with it in my 50s
and 60s. Harassment of women by men is very real
and very insidious. I love men and most are not
harassers. But a lot of them are including the current
sexual predator in the White House who openly
admits to lusting after his own daughter and admiring
Bill Reilly.
274
Carla, I have through hard work, gained a reason for women to harass me. They were gold-diggers. They did not want to work. Where is the outrage. Women are mostly-what did Shakespeare call them. It is nature-survival.
You mention your age as if that would indicate a loss of beauty and value for women. Closely related to valuing women for their appearance and sexual favors is the devaluing of older women rather than a deep appreciation of all women's humanity and dignity. Ageism, like sexual harassment also seems to impact women more than men, another side of the same coin?
Feminists and other members of the p.c. crowd , having destroyed comedy and comedic writing, are now intent on destroying the news business.Soon, those in public life or the entertainment business will be afraid of saying or doing anything without looking over their shoulder first. Bill O REILLY, while not the greatest writer in the field, was the best news broadcaster, and when he spoke, people listened,because his editorials were cogent, always seeming to articulate what many of us had been thinking. Present and future of the business is left to politically correct folks like Anderson Cooper, Rachel Maddow and Mika Brezinski. No disrespect intended, but Mika, always a fashion plate, has never written anything of note, and who would not be on Morning Joe were it not for her father, a noted political scientist and former Carter admin. official, Zbigniew Brezinski. Was asked by Language Services in 1975 to interpret for him and a French mayor, JP Chevenement, and found Mr. Brezinski to be a good bloke,whom one can't help liking. One thing in favor of his daughter, she is an altruist when it comes to rescuing four legged creatures, dogs and cats, a virtue that makes up for her failings as a newsman or newswoman.Just as the Oakland Raiders were never the same after Al Davis's retirement, Fox News is forever transformed, negatively. as a result of Bill O Reilly's forced departure.
5
The fact that you think O'Reilly was a "great" broadcaster is telling. He is/was a blowhard not particularly concerned with the facts, although always concerned with supporting right wing tropes. More to the point, he destroyed his own career - the "PC" people didn't destroy it. If you look around, there are plenty of broadcasters, right wing and left, who are not being "destroyed" by those nasty "PC" people. I loathe Sean Hannity, but apparently his prominence has not led to women making him a target. Maybe he doesn't harass women? O'Reilly did. I can promise you that he and Fox didn't pay $13 million to settle false or fraudulent claims.
5
What a tragedy so many readers in the U.S. look for reading material that will reinforce whatever terrible things they may think rather than accepting a factual accounting of events and situations. What benefit is there to reading something that reinforces the worst thoughts we can have based on nothing more than our hurt feelings and greatest fears, that somehow we are being left behind and we need someone to blame. Perhaps the blame should go to factless "news". Bill O'Reilly can be accused of a lot of things but reporting and reporting news is not one of them.
1
The fact this FOX situation went on so long and nobody challenged the status quo until the NYT investigations, which prompted the flight of advertisers, just attests to how entrenched the system is. Only money talks apparently: a lot of it.
I don't know what the answer is, frankly. We had one candidate who knew only too well how hard it is for women to break down barriers. A big part of her platform promised to address gender inequality.
Yet this woman was crucified by her opponent and his supporters based on lies while his supporters gave him a free pass on his own sexual problems and entitlement. To this day, Donald Trump will defend Bill O'Reilly because to admit his guilt means admitting to his own.
It's going to take, I think, at least 2-3 more generations until women break down more barriers: the right to be free from sexual predators, sexual quid pro quos, and equal pay for equal work.
In the meantime, misogyny runs deep in some portions of American culture. Getting rid of that is the sine qua non to achieving greater respect and parity between the sexes.
I don't know what the answer is, frankly. We had one candidate who knew only too well how hard it is for women to break down barriers. A big part of her platform promised to address gender inequality.
Yet this woman was crucified by her opponent and his supporters based on lies while his supporters gave him a free pass on his own sexual problems and entitlement. To this day, Donald Trump will defend Bill O'Reilly because to admit his guilt means admitting to his own.
It's going to take, I think, at least 2-3 more generations until women break down more barriers: the right to be free from sexual predators, sexual quid pro quos, and equal pay for equal work.
In the meantime, misogyny runs deep in some portions of American culture. Getting rid of that is the sine qua non to achieving greater respect and parity between the sexes.
241
Misogyny is not solely a male problem Think Stockholm Syndrome. Why is there no ERA? How did an electorate of 53% women elect the most anti-woman president since women got the vote?
2
Well said, Christine, though I hope that women's lives will improve sooner. After all, there are more women than men. We could win all elections if we banded together.
1
The the ouster was caused by the loss of advertising dollars illustrates how the media is controlled by business interests. The purpose of the media is to direct consumers to businesses through advertising.
32
You write this as if you are providing insight. During the McCarthy witch hunt era advertisers were spooked, and helped fuel the prevailing fear.
1
@David Henry: The point I was trying to make is that Fox could tolerate O’ Reilly’s predatory behavior towards women as long as he was an economy asset. When this was no longer the case he had to go. It was a business decision, not an ethical one.
To be an economic asset O’ Reilly had to be able to attract views who could then be directed by advertising to various sponsors. This was the model of the media worked out by Noam Chomsky in Manufacturing Consent and explains why the media has a bias towards American business interests and away from other interests such as those of labor. When I read the piece, it seemed to be a good example illustrating Chomsky’s thesis.
To be an economic asset O’ Reilly had to be able to attract views who could then be directed by advertising to various sponsors. This was the model of the media worked out by Noam Chomsky in Manufacturing Consent and explains why the media has a bias towards American business interests and away from other interests such as those of labor. When I read the piece, it seemed to be a good example illustrating Chomsky’s thesis.
Good riddance to O'Reilly and all like him. There is no place for discrimination, abuse or sexual harassment in any form against women, or anyone else.
The pay gap figures the Times quotes however don't seem to reflect studies by other groups. Several groups that are pro-women and for equal treatment of employees find almost no gap if you compare like for like.
Payscale finds: Nationally, when we control for job title, job level and other important influencers of wages (like years of work experience), women make 98 cents for every dollar earned by men.
http://www.payscale.com/data-packages/gender-pay-gap
Another consulting firm finds: Our global research confirms this gap but also shows that when compared “like for like”, the gender pay gap reduces to 1.6%. Put simply a man and a woman doing the same job in the same function and company, get paid almost exactly the same.
http://www.haygroup.com/en/our-library/whitepapers/gender-pay-gap/#.V7HR...
I think we all want equal and fair treatment for women on the job, and in any area of society. But it doesn't seem wages are out of wack when one controls for common sense factors. Clearly though one seems to be able to find a study out there that supports whatever one's view is.
The pay gap figures the Times quotes however don't seem to reflect studies by other groups. Several groups that are pro-women and for equal treatment of employees find almost no gap if you compare like for like.
Payscale finds: Nationally, when we control for job title, job level and other important influencers of wages (like years of work experience), women make 98 cents for every dollar earned by men.
http://www.payscale.com/data-packages/gender-pay-gap
Another consulting firm finds: Our global research confirms this gap but also shows that when compared “like for like”, the gender pay gap reduces to 1.6%. Put simply a man and a woman doing the same job in the same function and company, get paid almost exactly the same.
http://www.haygroup.com/en/our-library/whitepapers/gender-pay-gap/#.V7HR...
I think we all want equal and fair treatment for women on the job, and in any area of society. But it doesn't seem wages are out of wack when one controls for common sense factors. Clearly though one seems to be able to find a study out there that supports whatever one's view is.
12
Still ignores the fact that women and men are often not in the same jobs. Also the additional barriers women overcome to get to the same positions.
1
Unfortunately, what lefty liberals WANT is not "equality of opportunity" but "ENFORCED equality of outcomes". That is very hard to legislate.
They want a man and woman to be paid identically -- even if he puts in longer hours and she takes off at 30 for 8 years to raise her children and then wants to come back at the same level she'd be at had she NOT taken off.
While there is some discrimination by gender (as there is by race), it is NOTHING compared to 50-60 years ago (the "Mad Men" era) and it is bizarre to keep claiming that it is still the same.
They want a man and woman to be paid identically -- even if he puts in longer hours and she takes off at 30 for 8 years to raise her children and then wants to come back at the same level she'd be at had she NOT taken off.
While there is some discrimination by gender (as there is by race), it is NOTHING compared to 50-60 years ago (the "Mad Men" era) and it is bizarre to keep claiming that it is still the same.
2
One way to reduce the gender pay gap would be for companies to make everyones salary public.
167
You would not have to identify who gets what pay, but you should publish the title of the person and the compensation they receive. The government at least in California does this.
Like the federal government.
We tried that with the Paycheck Fairness Act, which would have made it illegal for employers to retaliate against employees who have the audacity to discuss their own paychecks. No Republicans would support it.
I remember seeing a female Republican, whose name I can no longer remember, on TV discussing the proposed legislation. Her contention was that salaries are proprietary information "owned" by the employer. Really? Try telling the loan officer that next time you apply for a mortgage. "I'm sorry, but I am not allowed to disclose that information as it belongs to my employer. You'll just have to guess."
I remember seeing a female Republican, whose name I can no longer remember, on TV discussing the proposed legislation. Her contention was that salaries are proprietary information "owned" by the employer. Really? Try telling the loan officer that next time you apply for a mortgage. "I'm sorry, but I am not allowed to disclose that information as it belongs to my employer. You'll just have to guess."
3
Is it any different at the top B-schools? Likely that this is where this behavior is tolerated if not learned and propagated on the job.
20
At this point, any human being of any gender who is willing to work for Fox News deserves (putting it as delicately as possible) to work for Fox News. Sometimes the most powerful political statements are made with the feet — and perhaps one hand waving goodbye.
"A Day without Fox" would be a great start, but it's a project for those already on the inside.
"A Day without Fox" would be a great start, but it's a project for those already on the inside.
45
Very simplistic, as those people need to feed and house their families too. A smart person is not going to walk out the door just on principle without another job already lined up if it will have an averse effect on their family, since this is proven by the amount of abuse that is tolerated at all companies. Better to keep making the abuse public and continue the public shaming to advertisers to make real changes in the way corporations actually act vs. the way they claim to act.
2
For every one highly visible Bill O'Reilly who gets the ax due to sexual harassment and discrimination, there are still at least 100 out there who continue to get away with it. All the time. Every day. most workplaces.
I remember applying for a management position in 1983 and being asked how I could possibly manage the job and my two children - questions never posed to a male candidate for the same job. I remember the owner of a small company insisting that I have dinner with him alone before he made his final decision, and while at dinner he asked me how "solid" my relationship with my husband was. I had only agreed to have dinner with him was because of my fear of not getting the job.
More recently in a job where education and rank is important, I sat in a meeting where 3 men talked as if I weren't there in the room. In another meeting with two male colleagues, as we divided up the administrative duties in our department, I was asked to answer all incoming correspondence and plan our twice yearly social events. They were putting themselves in charge of websites, outcome assessment, and serving as spokespersons for our planned departmental changes. That's when I drew the line and reminded both that I was senior faculty, had been there longer, and was not interested in answering all e-mails or planning socials.
With our current president, I can't imagine that women's situations will improve much.
I remember applying for a management position in 1983 and being asked how I could possibly manage the job and my two children - questions never posed to a male candidate for the same job. I remember the owner of a small company insisting that I have dinner with him alone before he made his final decision, and while at dinner he asked me how "solid" my relationship with my husband was. I had only agreed to have dinner with him was because of my fear of not getting the job.
More recently in a job where education and rank is important, I sat in a meeting where 3 men talked as if I weren't there in the room. In another meeting with two male colleagues, as we divided up the administrative duties in our department, I was asked to answer all incoming correspondence and plan our twice yearly social events. They were putting themselves in charge of websites, outcome assessment, and serving as spokespersons for our planned departmental changes. That's when I drew the line and reminded both that I was senior faculty, had been there longer, and was not interested in answering all e-mails or planning socials.
With our current president, I can't imagine that women's situations will improve much.
291
Just the other day a study came out about female faculty doing the lion's share of internal service. Sure, women can run the committees that eat up time and do nothing to promote tenure while men spend their time in research and serving on national professional boards. Who gets the raises and promotions? Right!
2
When I started many years ago, even women who were making promotions and raises were doing a lot of peripheral duties for the department to make it a nicer place to work. We worked at least as many hours as our male colleagues every week, but often had to host or attend baby/wedding showers on weekends, plan dinners for candidates coming for interviews, plan holiday parties, and shepherd new graduate students into the fold by having lunch or coffee with them on an ongoing basis. Others might say that we should have just put our foot down and refused, but that was back in a time when you didn't rock the boat for fear of missing out on a good committee assignment, not being approved for sabbatical, and maybe not making a promotion.
1
Bill OReilly's escapades are painfully public but similar things have happened and still happen to many of us, regardless of age, ethnicity or social status. I am glad that O'R's victims have received some justice and hopefully it will inspire other employers to take it seriously.
Lest any of the readers think that it is isolated I will share a recent incident. I am a faculty member at a small college. After a typical faculty meeting in which I shared some thoughts about one of our programs, the less-than-committed director of that program came to my office to tell me that I was ignorant and then proceeded to throw files at me. He is tenured--and as a kicker, the director of a social work program. On a previous occasion, he told me that I was a stupid woman.
I threatened to file a formal complaint and that stopped him for the time being. I hope that it does not go further.
Although I hope that the ERA eventually becomes part of the Constitution, today and tomorrow, as individuals and in collaboration, it is urgent for all of us to take a stand. We must make it clear that women must be treated equally and afforded appropriate opportunities. If we don't take a stand, we empower O'Reilly wannabes.
Lest any of the readers think that it is isolated I will share a recent incident. I am a faculty member at a small college. After a typical faculty meeting in which I shared some thoughts about one of our programs, the less-than-committed director of that program came to my office to tell me that I was ignorant and then proceeded to throw files at me. He is tenured--and as a kicker, the director of a social work program. On a previous occasion, he told me that I was a stupid woman.
I threatened to file a formal complaint and that stopped him for the time being. I hope that it does not go further.
Although I hope that the ERA eventually becomes part of the Constitution, today and tomorrow, as individuals and in collaboration, it is urgent for all of us to take a stand. We must make it clear that women must be treated equally and afforded appropriate opportunities. If we don't take a stand, we empower O'Reilly wannabes.
99
Yes, take a stand. File a formal complaint. Don't sit around mute while "hoping" it does not go further. Speak out. Get loud! Silence only allows it all to continue in the shadows.
2
The ERA as you remember it, is from the 1970s. It failed to get ratified by enough states, and therefore, it expired sometime in the 1980s.
1
"I threatened to file a formal complaint and that stopped him for the time being..."
Sigh. And here once again is the heart of the problem in attacking sexual harassment. "Threatened". I guess you didn't list the reasons why you actual didn't take action, "scared of your job", somehow you would be humiliated, nobody would listen, etc., etc. Maybe ten years from now, if he continues his past practices and dozens of woman come forward you'll join them in a lawsuit based on entirely on the weight of multiple accusations since of course by that time any actual evidence would be impossible to prove.
Of course the first part of your history wasn't sexual harassment, and any complaint would have to been owing to his highly unprofessional behavior. Even a man would have the right to complain about actions like if indeed the boss had a superior.
And it's a close call on the second complaint. Calling someone a stupid woman I would hazard is not sexual harassment, perhaps if had said you're stupid because your a woman. If my boss called me the stupidest man he had ever known, I don't think that would be sexual harassment.
There's enough prima facie sexual harassment existing in the US workplace without having to wrap every negative interaction between the sexes into the mix.
Sigh. And here once again is the heart of the problem in attacking sexual harassment. "Threatened". I guess you didn't list the reasons why you actual didn't take action, "scared of your job", somehow you would be humiliated, nobody would listen, etc., etc. Maybe ten years from now, if he continues his past practices and dozens of woman come forward you'll join them in a lawsuit based on entirely on the weight of multiple accusations since of course by that time any actual evidence would be impossible to prove.
Of course the first part of your history wasn't sexual harassment, and any complaint would have to been owing to his highly unprofessional behavior. Even a man would have the right to complain about actions like if indeed the boss had a superior.
And it's a close call on the second complaint. Calling someone a stupid woman I would hazard is not sexual harassment, perhaps if had said you're stupid because your a woman. If my boss called me the stupidest man he had ever known, I don't think that would be sexual harassment.
There's enough prima facie sexual harassment existing in the US workplace without having to wrap every negative interaction between the sexes into the mix.
1
This is a curious time to be writing this opinion piece. In the first few months of this year civil rights, job and wage protections have taken a body blow. With Trump and the GOP in charge and an increasingly conservative Supreme Court it will surely get much worse. Whether it is women, immigrants, or the poor and forgotten, this Administration is looking for every dollar it can claw back from them to enrich employers. While everything you discuss is true and important, the biggest roadblock to wage equality and pay commensurate with value is Trump.
55
As a 58 year old woman who suffered sexual harassment (and pay inequity) in the workplace in the 1970's, I can tell you that Trump is not the cause current attitudes. He merely reflects and emboldens them. He has however, as you say, re-opened the door to overt and legitimized chauvinism.
3
I am dismayed that more of us are not outraged by the continued second class treatment of women not only around the globe, but in the US. In addition to the obvious areas of inequality you mention, both men and women seem more than ready to ignore the structural inequalities in world religions (think Catholicism and some branches of Protestantism, Judaism and Muslim faiths which don't allow women to have leadership positions) and societal practices such as women (and/or her children) assuming a man's name upon marriage and in families. These misogynistic practices are excused as "cultural" or "traditional" when we would not minimize any other group's blatant oppression in this way.
161
The women inside each religion should certainly be supported in their struggle for equality, but there are many forms of oppression, including being struck by "the mother or all bombs" (Afghanistan) or suffering under brutal dictatorships propped up by US financial interests (Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Egypt, Thailand). Any attempt to attack religions around the world in the name of "global feminism" smacks of imperialism and has its roots in European/US empire. The US and its citizenry minimize the suffering and oppression of most of the world's population everyday, making the last sentence of this post truly absurd. To conclude with a simple example, US military support of Saudi Arabian bombing is pushing upwards of 20 million Yemeni toward mass starvation. Where is the support for the women (or men) of Yemen? Does anyone honestly think that their place in the mosque is their primary concern of the moment?
1
You are absolutely right. The USA needs to ratify CEDAW and ENFORCE IT. So long as the numerous faith traditions in the United States are entitled to preach the subjugation of women, we will continue to have severe struggles asserting women's rights.
There is no right to oppress women and girls. Religions that teach female subordination do violent harm to women & girls' psyches & to the whole social dynamic.
There is no right to oppress women and girls. Religions that teach female subordination do violent harm to women & girls' psyches & to the whole social dynamic.
The naming practices of Nordic cultures are different from ours. I wonder if that contributes in any way to their gender equality?
I was in Iceland recently and the news carried stories about a young woman who had been abducted while walking home late at night. She was murdered and her body dumped in the ocean by two sailors from Greenland. Here, that would be a ho-hum event. It is just too common. There, the country was incensed by it. They could not believe that such a thing could happen. Interestingly, not one word was said about the fact that she had left a bar was out alone at night. They didn't blame her for doing what men do routinely: walking alone.
I was in Iceland recently and the news carried stories about a young woman who had been abducted while walking home late at night. She was murdered and her body dumped in the ocean by two sailors from Greenland. Here, that would be a ho-hum event. It is just too common. There, the country was incensed by it. They could not believe that such a thing could happen. Interestingly, not one word was said about the fact that she had left a bar was out alone at night. They didn't blame her for doing what men do routinely: walking alone.
2
One of the hidden reasons that women get lower pay than men is that they often don't demand higher pay. Women in our society are taught to be more compliant generally than men and, some would say, the role of women in child birth and often as primary supervisors of children causes many to be more flexible than males. Additionally, the lower pay and the potential that a woman might be more compliant and follow corporate rules encourages employers to hire women.
I fully realize that these comments will not be welcomed by some, perhaps many. It is now a social sin to note any differences between men and women, except those by which women are mistreated or those characteristics which indicate that women are better suited than men. We can no longer have an open and free discussion because the thought police have stepped in to tell us how to view the world.
I write these comments taking note of that fact that, as an employer, the highest paid employee I ever hired was female and fully aware that the contribution of women in the workplace is tremendous. In the real world, most of the time if you want more money, you have to demand it and you have to be willing to take the risk of losing your job to get it. Crying about it or demanding that people give in and change their ways doesn't often work. Power is not granted, it is more often taken by the means at hand.
I fully realize that these comments will not be welcomed by some, perhaps many. It is now a social sin to note any differences between men and women, except those by which women are mistreated or those characteristics which indicate that women are better suited than men. We can no longer have an open and free discussion because the thought police have stepped in to tell us how to view the world.
I write these comments taking note of that fact that, as an employer, the highest paid employee I ever hired was female and fully aware that the contribution of women in the workplace is tremendous. In the real world, most of the time if you want more money, you have to demand it and you have to be willing to take the risk of losing your job to get it. Crying about it or demanding that people give in and change their ways doesn't often work. Power is not granted, it is more often taken by the means at hand.
10
I have known multiple men go in to demand raises when they get married or have children on the basis that they were "providing for their family" -- and were granted raises on that basis alone. Women however, are often penalized regardless of their marital status -- they are told they need "more experience" before receiving promotions and/or raises while men are given them based on potential. Make no mistake: misogyny is alive and well.
7
I don't welcome your comment because it stops short of considering the full picture. You're right that women are taught to be more compliant, and they are often expected to be more flexible in relationships. And those traits can carry over into the workplace. But there are plenty of women that aren't more compliant or flexible than men, and we've all witnessed the double standard in their treatment. Non compliant women are dubbed "unlikable," "too demanding," "aggressive," "abrasive," "emotional" and "bitchy." Every high-performing woman I know has been pulled aside by a boss or HR person and told to "soften the elbows." Meanwhile our male colleagues displaying the same behavior are rewarded for being "passionate" and "hard-charging." Women aren't stupid -- they learn very early that asking for more (or "taking power" as you call it) is a lose-lose and often puts them at great risk.
13
No comment will be welcomed by everyone, and perhaps by many. :)
I don't necessarily disagree with your analysis (though it may or not be true - that requires other information) but I also think that just because some people may react negatively to any kind of a comment, it doesn't become a social sin, any more than it was already (i.e., the thought police have always been with us). I'd like to think that people still are capable of, and interested in, intelligent debates without getting emotionally invested in the outcome (at least the people you wish to discuss this with will be and the rest can be ignored).
I don't necessarily disagree with your analysis (though it may or not be true - that requires other information) but I also think that just because some people may react negatively to any kind of a comment, it doesn't become a social sin, any more than it was already (i.e., the thought police have always been with us). I'd like to think that people still are capable of, and interested in, intelligent debates without getting emotionally invested in the outcome (at least the people you wish to discuss this with will be and the rest can be ignored).
We probably should not just assume that men and women are equal in all areas of abilities and talents. We desire equality for all people but that desire does not guarantee equal outcomes. If one looks at the index of a history of western civilization, it is almost all about men. Is that just the result of discrimination against women through the centuries or is it something more basic such as biological differences ? Some things will likely never change because they cannot.
4
It is the result of the oppression of women throughout the ages. Trump and his fanatical minions recognize that if women have control over their own bodies in the form of birth control and access to abortion, and if women are free to earn a living on their own, then women can say no to abusive men. Trump and his pals hate the idea of women being free. This is why Trump and his pals are "pro-life" and want to force women out of the workplace by sexually harassing them and throwing up other barriers.
8
What? More basic such as biological differences?
What were the biological differences of Hypatia, a teacher of advanced mathematics in Ancient Greece, or of Ada Lovelace, the first database engineer, or Maria Goeppert Mayer, a Nobel prize winning atomic physicist, or Maria Curie, the first woman to have discovered with her own hands, radiation.
There are thousands of women in history, ancient and modern, who clearly you are ignorant of, and for whom their biology had no bearing on their intellectual achievements.
Intellect has no sexuality.
What were the biological differences of Hypatia, a teacher of advanced mathematics in Ancient Greece, or of Ada Lovelace, the first database engineer, or Maria Goeppert Mayer, a Nobel prize winning atomic physicist, or Maria Curie, the first woman to have discovered with her own hands, radiation.
There are thousands of women in history, ancient and modern, who clearly you are ignorant of, and for whom their biology had no bearing on their intellectual achievements.
Intellect has no sexuality.
8
sure, like men are totally horrible by being self-aggrandizing. They hog the spot light constantly and also constantly put down women and belittle their talents and contributions.
So, for the good of humanity we should all just admit that Men are horrible leaders and should never, never be trusted with any leadership position.
In fact, men should have live subject to female guardianship their whole lives. Let's set that up as a system.
That's such a great idea, thanks for sparking it for me. The whole world will thank you.
So, for the good of humanity we should all just admit that Men are horrible leaders and should never, never be trusted with any leadership position.
In fact, men should have live subject to female guardianship their whole lives. Let's set that up as a system.
That's such a great idea, thanks for sparking it for me. The whole world will thank you.
2
Like most women - I've been sexually harassed at jobs from summer retail to white collar positions. I've had to play dumb or smile agreeably with the hopes that they would just move on. I've had to deal with the wrath of rejected men and the fallout which is always meant changing jobs as HR is a joke and will always side with the more powerful person - usually the harasser. Fast forward to he pregnancy and young children years when harassment changes to the more subtle form of questioning competence and commitment and that is when the double standard truly hits overdrive. Companies will always turn their head until things explode. There is absolutely no incentive for corporate America to address harassment, inequity and abuse aside from litigation which is expensive, costly and out of reach for most - and hardly a sure thing even if accessible. Until there is a true, transparent, zero tolerance policing at corporations that does not require litigation to enforce - nothing will change.
161
The subjugation of women is factored into their business plan. It makes them more profitable. The supreme court will uphold that.
3
The Census Bureau reported that in 2014, 29.9% of men had a bachelor's degree, while 30.2% of women did. Also, per the Education Department, women accounted for 55 percent of undergraduates enrolled at four-year colleges in the United States as of fall 2014. So at some point of time in the near future, demographics are going to force changes in the way women are treated in the workplace, whether it’s equal pay for equal work, promotions, speaking out on sexual harassment, etc.
Yet when 76% of Human Resources Managers are women, according to 2014 statistics from the US Department of Labor, it is inexplicable that women haven’t made faster progress with regards to the aforementioned issues. Last year’s presidential election clearly established how much higher the standards for personal conduct are for a woman. Women can rapidly achieve parity with men in the workplace, if more women supported each other in these difficult and unfair situations.
Yet when 76% of Human Resources Managers are women, according to 2014 statistics from the US Department of Labor, it is inexplicable that women haven’t made faster progress with regards to the aforementioned issues. Last year’s presidential election clearly established how much higher the standards for personal conduct are for a woman. Women can rapidly achieve parity with men in the workplace, if more women supported each other in these difficult and unfair situations.
25
A couple of observations: 1 the Murdoch clan wants to expand their empire in England. The British government will not allow this if they feel that the Murdoch s will not be good stewards of their vast new opportunity to influence the media.. The deal in England is worth billions more to the Murdoch clan vs. Millions at Fox with O'Reilly. 2. Just like with smoking, through a concerted effort within the school system,students can be taught what sexual harassment is, and how to stop it. We taught them from early age that smoking is bad and it has had an effect. And in the school system at EVERY LEVEL, sexual harassment training is sorely needed. That has been my observation for decades.
47
Any form of harassment must be abhorred in our schools. Yes the golden rule is more important than Civil War battles
at school yes; at home absolutely; and in the media world an absolute must!
Will Fox be able to declare these payments as a deduction from its taxes? If so, then a change in the law prohibiting this practice might contribute to a change in corporate policy.
96
All true... but women will still choose a man with no experience and no preparation for a job over a woman who is eminently qualified for the same position. Instead of dismantling the patriarchy, women vote to maintain it. When Trump, for example, chooses few women for his cabinet, we only have ourselves to blame.
51
No, we only have the men and women who voted for Trump to blame.
6
Female, No Self Respecting Woman would even Want to be part of this cabinet. Horrors!!
1
I don't blame myself. Why should I? I didn't vote for the creep, nor did most women. Just because a few women are idiots doesn't mean we all are.
5
The career of a woman can be summed up with this example --- take note next time you drive by a road construction crew. Who's holding the SLOW sign to warn drivers? Invariably, the woman on the crew. She's not operating any equipment that will advance her job skills, she's nowhere near the foreman who's teaching all the other crew members how to get things done on time. No --she holding the SLOW sign. She'll be gone in five years, frustrated after being told over and over that she has no skills that will get her promoted. Remember, she's been given the task of holding the SLOW sign. It's a perfect metaphor that illustrates why women can't get ahead.
74
You make a very important point. Often when I get into a discussion with a man about pay inequality in the workplace, they counter with the argument that women refuse to take on "hard labor" jobs like construction, mining, etc. They fail to realize that the reason most women opt to not do these jobs is because they will be relegated to holding the SLOW sign or some other menial task. Once the (male) bosses at these sites begin hiring and putting women into key positions, then women will begin seeing these fields as potential career paths they want to take.
1
Maybe we should take a step back and ask are people paid the same for similar risk levels in employment. From my observation, those who take more risks are compensated more. As a 60-year old male former executive, I have made a concerted effort over the last few decades to even the playing field for women. However, if this pay disparity still exists, I want to ask women if you are willing to take the risks that I see men at the executive levels taking. When seeking women for leadership positions, I have heard a number of women say they do not feel comfortable taking on the risks. I have never heard a man say this.
Frankly, I do not understand this "lean in" philosophy. I think that successful executives "jump" in or "push" their way in. What's holding you back? No one makes you a CEO as a favor. You either do the job or you don't. And if you want to make more money, then ask for it. Demand it.
Business only incrementally rewards good grades. But if you want to get into the executive suite, then you need to muscle your way in.
Frankly, I do not understand this "lean in" philosophy. I think that successful executives "jump" in or "push" their way in. What's holding you back? No one makes you a CEO as a favor. You either do the job or you don't. And if you want to make more money, then ask for it. Demand it.
Business only incrementally rewards good grades. But if you want to get into the executive suite, then you need to muscle your way in.
5
I think you need to consider the context in which women are saying and doing these things. You cant possibly believe women are born with an inherent hesitation to be a "risk taker." So think harder and smarter about why that might be- women cant always "muscle" their way to the top because there are negative consequences to engaging in behavior some might consider too aggressive for a woman. Women who act this way are often considered "unlikeable" and their careers suffer for it.
8
I was around in the 60s and 70s when women could not get credit to buy a house - I understand the context. To combat this, I have promoted women in the scientific field - keep in mind that I got to the executive suite by grit and determination myself. However, I stand by my statement, that only women have told me (and I believe honestly) that they are too risk averse to take on certain management roles, particularly in startups. My comment above is aimed at women so they do take the leap.
"We shall not be safe until the principle of equal rights is written into the framework of our government."
~Alice Paul 1923 original ERA sponsor
Women are still treated like second class citizens in this country. We like to think that we are progressive but attacks on planned parenthood, the recent ousters of Bill O'Reilly and Roger Ailes, the husband shooting his wife and himself in her classroom, the continued pay disparities, and the fact that access to affordable birth control and daycare are still an issue nearly 100 years after the Women's rights movement speaks volumes.
Currently the United States ranks 45th in gender equality. Clearly we're doing something wrong. At what point do we look at the top 10 countries and implement policies that they use to make our country more equal.
The fact that the United States is one of seven countries who have yet to ratify the Convention on the Elimination of Discrimination Against Women which is the international bill of rights for women speaks volumes. The world wide Womens Rights March right after Trump's inauguration should tell Washington that we've had enough. Until we get our own house in order we have no standing in telling other countries what they are doing wrong in their own country.
~Alice Paul 1923 original ERA sponsor
Women are still treated like second class citizens in this country. We like to think that we are progressive but attacks on planned parenthood, the recent ousters of Bill O'Reilly and Roger Ailes, the husband shooting his wife and himself in her classroom, the continued pay disparities, and the fact that access to affordable birth control and daycare are still an issue nearly 100 years after the Women's rights movement speaks volumes.
Currently the United States ranks 45th in gender equality. Clearly we're doing something wrong. At what point do we look at the top 10 countries and implement policies that they use to make our country more equal.
The fact that the United States is one of seven countries who have yet to ratify the Convention on the Elimination of Discrimination Against Women which is the international bill of rights for women speaks volumes. The world wide Womens Rights March right after Trump's inauguration should tell Washington that we've had enough. Until we get our own house in order we have no standing in telling other countries what they are doing wrong in their own country.
160
While I haven't looked it up, I suspect those top ten countries are all Nordic. That means they are - ew! - democratic socialist! Can't sully our rapacious capitalism that way. What were you thinking?
Nora 01: I did look up the listing and was surprised that Canada is ranked 35th, still ahead of the U.S., and way ahead of Russia at 75th. And not all the top ten were Nordic either. Trump will probably want to pass laws to make the U.S. # 85, thinking that Russia has beat him again!!
one thing missing from this discussion is a simple fact, Human Nature . as long as there is a mixed gendered workplace, the incidents of harassment will continue. maybe it's time for a Radical Idea "segregated workplace".
fight against human nature is a lost cause
fight against human nature is a lost cause
2
False. Harassment (sexual or otherwise) is about power dynamics and perceived threat to power, not attraction or desire. The only people that need to be segregated are those with attitudes like yours.
10
So 'boys will be boys' in other words. Men can't help themselves, because they're uncontrollable. Puleez. Tell me again, why are they running things, if they have such poor impulse control?
13
Human nature also dictates we murder each other for food and water. Leave the cave grow up
5
This piece should be required annual reading for every student from grade 7 upward. After reading, discussion and solution invention and testing. Every year.
9
One way to begin to address this problem is to write into the contracts of people that is they are fired due to sexual harassment or other illegal behavior, they will receive no severance pay. Their contract provisions shall be null and void regarding any pay if the contract is terminated for cause. FOX has a long way to go to convince people they are going to change given the fact they clearly made an economic decision. Advertisers and investors need to make it clear to corporations that they will not tolerate allowing this kind of behavior. Money talks and unfortunately it speaks louder than enforcing policies regarding improper conduct in the workplace, providing women with equal pay and basically treating all employees with respect.
135
A few major lawsuits, which fixed on those huge bonuses, and sucked them dry to repay victims, would have the same effect.
1
Good luck with that. Big business now has a full-time resident representative living in the White House, and he has surrounded himself with robotic business representatives in his cabinet. Congress is absolutely stuffed with business hand-maidens who go so far as to place the health of the planet below the bottom line. Governors work hand-in-hand with big business to crush unions.
Powell and his memo have just about completed their takeover of this democracy.
Powell and his memo have just about completed their takeover of this democracy.
It is an abomination that the two discriminators got more than 75% of the amount that Fox spent to clean up the mess at Fox that those two created. O'Reilly and Ailes got $65,000,000 of the $85,000,000 that Fox spent to voluntarily to clean it up and get back the sponsors that have left in droves.
Parity is one of the aims of our anti-discrimination laws. The women who were the victims of the discriminatory acts of Ailes and O'Reilly should file law suits against seeking at least as much as was paid to Ailes and O'Reilly. In the alternative or additionally, they should file suits against Ailes and O'Reilly seeking disgorgement of those ill gotten gains. Discriminators should not be permitted to profit from their violation of anti-discrimination laws.
Parity is one of the aims of our anti-discrimination laws. The women who were the victims of the discriminatory acts of Ailes and O'Reilly should file law suits against seeking at least as much as was paid to Ailes and O'Reilly. In the alternative or additionally, they should file suits against Ailes and O'Reilly seeking disgorgement of those ill gotten gains. Discriminators should not be permitted to profit from their violation of anti-discrimination laws.
45
From day one, Fox News made it fairly obvious that its female commentators were eye candy for its white rural male audiences. It really could not be more obvious. Even the on camera verbal interaction with male hosts had the nostalgic quality of a 50's Madmen script. If it was this blatant on screen, one could only imagine what was going on behind the cameras. That Ailes and O'Reilly treated these women as perks and bargaining chips they were entitled to should come as no surprise. Finally after decades of abuse and humiliation certain women at Fox stood up, went public, and filed law suits. Once the bad publicity flowed, corporations pulled their advertising dollars and Fox management hand was forced to take action. Through this continuing saga, one most important fact stands out, 75% of the Fox audience is still hog wild over the network. Fox has not had a dent in their audience, fact is it has grown.. Nothing disturbs these people. Do they have daughters, sisters, and mothers? And what message does their continued viewership send to these women in their lives?
182
I think you'd have to be some form of crazy to work at Fox, but that's a whole nuther issue.
1
Eye candy is on all networks. Even the weather people.
It is not just the workplace. It is the country at large.
When I started dating in my middle years, after getting divorced, I was amazed by the high percentage of women I met who had been abused in relationships, both physically and emotionally (none of which was in my background).
As the saying goes, we need to do better. Do not expect old white guys to lead the way.
When I started dating in my middle years, after getting divorced, I was amazed by the high percentage of women I met who had been abused in relationships, both physically and emotionally (none of which was in my background).
As the saying goes, we need to do better. Do not expect old white guys to lead the way.
23
What we've seen lately at FOX does not indicate that fairness is returning to the workplace - not even at FOX. It only reminds us of this pervasive problem. Fat exit bonuses reveal both a corporate decision to avoid lengthy (and embarrassing) public disputes and a moral & political failing in society generally.
Does anyone imagine eight-digit payments to women accused (though not convicted) of serial offenses against their subordinates, sexual or otherwise? Let's not celebrate prematurely that the departures of Ailes and O'Reilly signal a change in corporate culture. What see so far is evidence of the lack of change.
Is it too obvious to state that there is a double standard not only for promotion & pay but also for accountability? (How long would a female president survive generating the kinds of headlines Donald Trump has produced? Would she retain the partisan backing of her political tribe at this point?)
The problem writ large is not just that it's harder for women to climb the ladder in the first place, but also that men on the higher rungs are often immune to the consequences of their behavior until someone else starts losing money - and even then, they might find a very soft and cushy landing when they are belatedly pushed off the ladder, claiming victimhood as they tumble into their bed of money.
Does anyone imagine eight-digit payments to women accused (though not convicted) of serial offenses against their subordinates, sexual or otherwise? Let's not celebrate prematurely that the departures of Ailes and O'Reilly signal a change in corporate culture. What see so far is evidence of the lack of change.
Is it too obvious to state that there is a double standard not only for promotion & pay but also for accountability? (How long would a female president survive generating the kinds of headlines Donald Trump has produced? Would she retain the partisan backing of her political tribe at this point?)
The problem writ large is not just that it's harder for women to climb the ladder in the first place, but also that men on the higher rungs are often immune to the consequences of their behavior until someone else starts losing money - and even then, they might find a very soft and cushy landing when they are belatedly pushed off the ladder, claiming victimhood as they tumble into their bed of money.
22
Waiting for any challenge to the white male-dominated power structure is a fool's errand. It is like depending on corporations (which *aren't* people too my friend) to act responsibly for the collective public good. Regulation is needed in a capitalist economy and fierce resistance is needed to remedy the inherent injustice of gender oppression.
Resistance sometimes ain't pretty but it is always prerequisite to progressive justice.
Resistance sometimes ain't pretty but it is always prerequisite to progressive justice.
20
Fox didn't fire O'Reilly because women complained of his harassment. But they sure did when advertisers pulled their ads. Not too much credit goes to Fox, but kudos to the companies who rejected O'Reilly despite his high ratings.
Mercedes Benz was the first to pull its ads for the O'Reilly Factor, followed by Hyundai, BMW, T. Rowe Price, Allstate insurance, GlaxoSmithKline, and online marketing firm Constant Contact.
I can't say I always love all these companies, but they certainly did a good deed here.
Mercedes Benz was the first to pull its ads for the O'Reilly Factor, followed by Hyundai, BMW, T. Rowe Price, Allstate insurance, GlaxoSmithKline, and online marketing firm Constant Contact.
I can't say I always love all these companies, but they certainly did a good deed here.
61
I think the companies acted because they were forced to by their markets, not out of principle. We need to persist in holding them all to account.
5
'Those practices include not only sexual harassment, but also persistent disparities in pay and promotion, as well as structural impediments — in child care, scheduling and other workplace policies.'
The worst practise and structural impediment in the USA and elsewhere against many millions of older workers, male and female alike, is unfair age based discrimination by employers. Try finding a decent job once you've been laid off in your fifties.
Widespread age discrimination in the USA is followed by widespread unfair discrimination based on so-called race or ethnicity.
Nevertheless, whatever our age, our skin colour, biological sex or chosen gender, the worst thing about so many workplaces is the endless bullying that takes place by bosses, supervisors and coworkers. The youngest and oldest workers, those who work part time or on temporary contracts, and those who are just plain different, are most vulnerable to this.
The worst practise and structural impediment in the USA and elsewhere against many millions of older workers, male and female alike, is unfair age based discrimination by employers. Try finding a decent job once you've been laid off in your fifties.
Widespread age discrimination in the USA is followed by widespread unfair discrimination based on so-called race or ethnicity.
Nevertheless, whatever our age, our skin colour, biological sex or chosen gender, the worst thing about so many workplaces is the endless bullying that takes place by bosses, supervisors and coworkers. The youngest and oldest workers, those who work part time or on temporary contracts, and those who are just plain different, are most vulnerable to this.
17
@Colenso: absolutely correct. In most cases, the sexual discrimination claimed here is more like stupid flirting than any serious attack.
But to be paid off in late middle age is a utter financial disaster. The 20-something who quits to get away from an overly flirtatious boss can easily find a great new job -- the 50-something who is laid off because of their age cannot.
Also while age discrimination affects BOTH men and women, it is my observation that women are affected more and earlier. A man can be a desired worker into his 50s. Women are often obsoleted by 45. And women tend to have made less, due to time out of the work force for child-rearing -- AND culturally, many are not shrewd investors nor savers. They face mid-life unemployment with fewer resources AND with cultural discrimination against older women.
There is a whole other, new problem as you correctly allege with gig and temp workers, that isn't even explored here. And it has HUGE repercussions for the future, where full time jobs will be even scarcer and harder to hold onto.
But to be paid off in late middle age is a utter financial disaster. The 20-something who quits to get away from an overly flirtatious boss can easily find a great new job -- the 50-something who is laid off because of their age cannot.
Also while age discrimination affects BOTH men and women, it is my observation that women are affected more and earlier. A man can be a desired worker into his 50s. Women are often obsoleted by 45. And women tend to have made less, due to time out of the work force for child-rearing -- AND culturally, many are not shrewd investors nor savers. They face mid-life unemployment with fewer resources AND with cultural discrimination against older women.
There is a whole other, new problem as you correctly allege with gig and temp workers, that isn't even explored here. And it has HUGE repercussions for the future, where full time jobs will be even scarcer and harder to hold onto.
1
That's LAID OFF...not "paid off"...my bad internet typing. Sorry.
1
Most women understand that Misogyny is ubiquitous; most men can't see it.
I worked in a male dominated field. The women who worked there abused verbally & in work assignments until there were women in management, who were willing to speak up.
Woman make up more than 50% of this country why are we so behind in treatment & assets? It's only women that will set us free. Uppity women.
Fox News fired O'Reilly only for financial considerations, bad publicity.
Women, do not settle for disrespect.
I worked in a male dominated field. The women who worked there abused verbally & in work assignments until there were women in management, who were willing to speak up.
Woman make up more than 50% of this country why are we so behind in treatment & assets? It's only women that will set us free. Uppity women.
Fox News fired O'Reilly only for financial considerations, bad publicity.
Women, do not settle for disrespect.
12
The workplace is not a democracy. It is economic dictatorship in a political democracy. How did the women rise to leadership positions in your place where "misogyny is ubiquitous"? Your answer might be useful to other similar places. Please share some details.
It's not just sexual harassment and pay discrimination that bedevil women in the workforce, in some industries they have to work doubly hard to earn the respect they deserve, even if they are at the top of their field.
As we saw with Susan Fowler's experience at Uber, it often doesn't matter how competent you are or how hard you work at your job, if the culture rewards sexism or does nothing to stop it, a woman's work life can be a living hell.
http://nymag.com/selectall/2017/02/susan-fowler-alleges-sexual-discrimin...
As we saw with Susan Fowler's experience at Uber, it often doesn't matter how competent you are or how hard you work at your job, if the culture rewards sexism or does nothing to stop it, a woman's work life can be a living hell.
http://nymag.com/selectall/2017/02/susan-fowler-alleges-sexual-discrimin...
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Susan Fowler should have applied for the CEO job at Yahoo that could use someone as incompetent as Ms. Mayer or Hewlett Packard or Ford or whatever in her league. At any rate, women who have a lot of labor market leverage should _not_be the poster child for the millions of voiceless women. But that's what corporate media and public opinion focus on. Do we know why so many women voted for President Trump? No we don't, but it is safe to assume it is not as simple as "false consciousness."
"Workers would have to embrace unions, and corporations would have to allow union organizing without interference, which is a long shot, but likelier in the face of public pressure."
They don't need "public pressure" they need law enforcement. If those laws have been gutted, they need them back too.
This is not something that should be voluntary or a public relations problem.
They don't need "public pressure" they need law enforcement. If those laws have been gutted, they need them back too.
This is not something that should be voluntary or a public relations problem.
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The most progressive of governments, say oh California, nearly always if not always reject sexual harassment cases in work place discrimination. Our progressive government watch dogs, such as the California Labor Board have been declawed.
@RR: if California -- a ONE PARTY, all Democrat, all liberal State -- cannot enforce these anti-harassment laws under GOVERNOR MOONBEAM -- then there is no hope, anywhere, ever.
1
I was referring to enforcing the laws protecting the right to form unions, and protect all worker rights, rather than just rely on public opinion.
"Of that sum, as much as $65 million went to the two men, in the form of exit pay."
That is a fact to be used in setting the punitive damages in a civil suit to follow. Share it out among the victims.
That is a fact to be used in setting the punitive damages in a civil suit to follow. Share it out among the victims.
400
I certainly hope that civil suits follow and that both Ailes and O'Reilly's payouts go entirely to the women they harassed. And we women (and sympathetic men) all learned the power we now have with social media to get the word out quickly and hit these harassers where it hurts the most: not there, in their wallets.
16
'Victims' that all settled with multimillion private settlements.
Yes, this is a striking fact, and makes for a great sound bite/ headline.
I assume you also studied the terms of the contract between Fox and O'Reilly? Maybe it was a bad contract, but it had to be honored when Fox terminated it.
Were the victims forced to agree to their individual settlements? Maybe if you were their lawyer, you would've advised them to hold out for more. But willing parties all agreed to terms for their own reasons.
So what exactly is your point of calling this fact out? What should be done differently? Should Fox not honor the terms of their contract with O'Reilly and then be forced by a court to pay later? Should the victims go back and try to renegotiate their terms? Should Fox be forced to pay more money to victims just because of optics?
I assume you also studied the terms of the contract between Fox and O'Reilly? Maybe it was a bad contract, but it had to be honored when Fox terminated it.
Were the victims forced to agree to their individual settlements? Maybe if you were their lawyer, you would've advised them to hold out for more. But willing parties all agreed to terms for their own reasons.
So what exactly is your point of calling this fact out? What should be done differently? Should Fox not honor the terms of their contract with O'Reilly and then be forced by a court to pay later? Should the victims go back and try to renegotiate their terms? Should Fox be forced to pay more money to victims just because of optics?
Anita Hill got pilloried and Clarence Thomas got a seat on the Supreme Court. Women across the country knew she wasn't lying. Several other women who had complaints against Thomas weren't allowed to testify at his hearings. I think we have made some progress in that women are more likely to be believed now. Still, O'Reilly insists he did nothing wrong, liberals are out to get him and the women are lying to get money. Yawn. Does anyone really believe that? Of course with his paltry $25 million severance package, life will be hard. O'Reilly's reputation may suffer but I expect he'll have his apologists, like DJT.
724
I honestly don't think we have made progress. At a company that I worked at the company got rid of 6 female engineers in the Electrical and Mechanical Engineering group containing over 110+ male engineers. They did this through hostile environment. They got rid entire segments of women by laying them off in the software group. This happened between 2009 and 2013.
9
@Barbara
/Anita Hill got pilloried and Clarence Thomas got a seat on the Supreme Court./
Thank you, Senator Biden.
/Anita Hill got pilloried and Clarence Thomas got a seat on the Supreme Court./
Thank you, Senator Biden.
1
Yes. Comrade P. Grabber believes O'Reilly completely. To do otherwise might require that he confront his own (mis)behavior. Fat chance of that!
4
Decades after it was introduced, we still need an Equal Rights Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. Perhaps passage of the ERA would help to reduce or eliminate gender-based pay disparities.
By the way, would ERA passage establish the groundwork to pass a federal statute prohibiting gender-based wage disparity?
Absent a Constitutional Amendment and a federal law banning gender-based pay discrimination, the unveiling of specific pay disparities in traditional and social media would be a great help. It is one thing to know that women generally make 22% less than men. It is another thing to know that (for example), male engineers at your company make 22% more than female engineers, or that Jane Doe in legal makes 15% less than John Doe in legal, even though she holds a more senior position.
Sunshine is often the best disinfectant.
By the way, would ERA passage establish the groundwork to pass a federal statute prohibiting gender-based wage disparity?
Absent a Constitutional Amendment and a federal law banning gender-based pay discrimination, the unveiling of specific pay disparities in traditional and social media would be a great help. It is one thing to know that women generally make 22% less than men. It is another thing to know that (for example), male engineers at your company make 22% more than female engineers, or that Jane Doe in legal makes 15% less than John Doe in legal, even though she holds a more senior position.
Sunshine is often the best disinfectant.
389
I wonder that companies such as the ones you mention don't hire mostly female workers since they're apparently much cheaper. I don't think males are a protected category for employers. I'm not suggesting there's no wage disparity but most companies do not seek out the most expensive employees as a matter of policy.
5
The ERA expired as an Amendment in 1983. To enact such a law today, would require a NEW Amendment to be proposed and passed through Congress. Which is majority Republican. Good luck.
Also there are already rock-solid laws about equality in pay. The Editorial Board is very deceptive here. When engineers are HIRED, male & female are paid identically. (I know; I have female engineers in my family!) But after 10 years, there is a divergence -- the males keep working and putting in long hours. The females TEND to take time off to have children. Some even quit entirely for a decade.
The inequality of their wages, therefore, represent different career paths and differing amounts of time spent at their job. This is a CHOICE that women freely undertake, as birth control and abortion are legal and available to all. Women WANT children. They WANT to stay home with their own children -- at least, many do. And female engineers (scientists, computer programmers, etc.) are well paid, and certainly able to afford day care. IT IS A CHOICE.
Feminism was supposed to be about CHOICES.
Also there are already rock-solid laws about equality in pay. The Editorial Board is very deceptive here. When engineers are HIRED, male & female are paid identically. (I know; I have female engineers in my family!) But after 10 years, there is a divergence -- the males keep working and putting in long hours. The females TEND to take time off to have children. Some even quit entirely for a decade.
The inequality of their wages, therefore, represent different career paths and differing amounts of time spent at their job. This is a CHOICE that women freely undertake, as birth control and abortion are legal and available to all. Women WANT children. They WANT to stay home with their own children -- at least, many do. And female engineers (scientists, computer programmers, etc.) are well paid, and certainly able to afford day care. IT IS A CHOICE.
Feminism was supposed to be about CHOICES.
3
Thirty-five years ago, women earned 78 cents for every dollar earned by men. It's tragic that, despite efforts to empower women, our worth in the workplace is still the same 78 cents.
2
I couldn't agree more that harassment at the workplace is inappropriate. I don't see how unions are the solution to any workplace problem - they will probably protect the offenders as per their contracts. If I'm not mistaken William Jefferson Clinton took advantage of a vowel junior subordinate as well as others but we were led to believe it was a personal matter. Cant have it both ways.
17
Former President Bill Clinton -- the man almost became First Husband! -- was actually CONVICTED (not merely accused) of sexual harassment of Paula Jones, and had to pay her $800,000 and lost his law license.
1
The young lady in question did walk into the Oval Office and lifted her skirt, revealing a thong.
2
What is a "vowel junior subordinate"? If you are talking about Monica, read her memoir. She targeted him and she admits it.
8
Women for Trump!
Women for Trump!
Women for Trump!
How many times did we see those signs and hear that chant during the campaign?
It's OK, all guys talk that way. It was just locker room talk, that's all.
Over 50% of women voted for that idiot in spite of everything he said and did. After all,Trump is going to make America great. So we can just ignore all that other stuff.
No we can't.
The cause of equality cannot advance when so many women refuse to acknowledge the situation they are in. I understand that many women have become trapped in an abusive relationship which is horrible. But many more women are trapped in an abusive society.
Men cannot free them. Their abusers will not free them. They make too much money off of them. Easy for me to say, but ladies, you are all going have to take a stand against this abuse.
That's really hard to do when over half of you voted for the likes of Trump. Even harder when many college educated professional women voted for that vacuous shell of a man.
The suffragettes took it to the street. They raised hell and won. Back in the 70's, a big battle was fought and won. But the tide has turned because of complacency. They abusers have risen from their ashes. Fox News is their campground. Again, the abuse was rooted in profit and power. It always has been and always will. That's why the fight cannot end. At least, not until the Fox News types are sweeping your floors.
Women for Trump!
Women for Trump!
How many times did we see those signs and hear that chant during the campaign?
It's OK, all guys talk that way. It was just locker room talk, that's all.
Over 50% of women voted for that idiot in spite of everything he said and did. After all,Trump is going to make America great. So we can just ignore all that other stuff.
No we can't.
The cause of equality cannot advance when so many women refuse to acknowledge the situation they are in. I understand that many women have become trapped in an abusive relationship which is horrible. But many more women are trapped in an abusive society.
Men cannot free them. Their abusers will not free them. They make too much money off of them. Easy for me to say, but ladies, you are all going have to take a stand against this abuse.
That's really hard to do when over half of you voted for the likes of Trump. Even harder when many college educated professional women voted for that vacuous shell of a man.
The suffragettes took it to the street. They raised hell and won. Back in the 70's, a big battle was fought and won. But the tide has turned because of complacency. They abusers have risen from their ashes. Fox News is their campground. Again, the abuse was rooted in profit and power. It always has been and always will. That's why the fight cannot end. At least, not until the Fox News types are sweeping your floors.
776
Fifty percent of women didn't support Trump. Perhaps 50% of the 25% of voters who were Trump voters supported him. Too many eligible voters stayed home. Both males and females supported him. There is no gender protection against being sold a pig in a poke. The sad thing is many of these folks still like and support him! I talked to a woman just the other day who defended Trump's "locker room talk" and says all men talk like that. I know men who I am sure don't talk like that and certainly know men who don't grope women and think it's just fine. Most women know the difference between a gentleman with integrity and a jerk. We tend to avoid the latter.
344
I am really trying to get my head around why women don't think they deserve better. I think that's why so many of them voted for Trump. They will defend men they are involved with when they engage in egregious behavior. What is that about? How are women being socialized in our society? We need to get a better understanding of this.
20
A lioness will not have the aggressive tact of a Lion. If my children are in a burning pre-war classic six, I want a Fireman, not a Firewoman there to help out. I speak from experience, Quang-Tri Province, June 1971. Why were thew women not protesting about their inability to fight in that fun and sunny spot.
3
It is notable that it was the loss of advertising dollars not moral principles that are important to Trump, Fox, and corporate America. It is still difficult to fathom American support for the promoters of crimes against women.
638
Some men think women are too sensitive about this issue or making up their outrage. Women should just buck up, they say. Can't women take a joke, they think? Aren't they flattered to be found sexually attractive? What's the big deal? That's the attitude of some men.
275
Fox News executives knew for years Ailes and Bill O’Reilly and others they put in the bully pulpit were serial haters, sexual predators, bigots, and misogynists, and that systematic sexual harassment and other types of abuse were par for employees. Fox News advertising boycott will continue. So will the boycott of corporations supporting Trump. We're just getting started. N.http://foxnewsboycott.com/fox-news-sponsors/fox-sponsors-a-l/
http://foxnewsboycott.com/fox-news-sponsors/fox-sponsors-m-z/
http://foxnewsboycott.com/fox-news-sponsors/fox-sponsors-m-z/
25
Some men are so dense and live in a self-serving fantasy world that completely misreads and misunderstands women. I'm wondering what it would take for them to really get the experience of how it feels to be a woman and be subject to regular abuse: to be violated, shamed, threatened, demeaned, disrespected, overworked, under valued, and paid less? Would placing a 2-ton truck on their chest help?
25
Women's status in the workplace reflects women's status in the rest of society. The vulnerabilities women face as employees - sexual harassment, exploitive low pay, little representation in positions of power - mirror how women fare, generally, next to men.
So, yes, keep fighting the legal battles and for institutional reforms, but know that progress within the work force will go hand-in-hand with progress outside of the work force.
So, yes, keep fighting the legal battles and for institutional reforms, but know that progress within the work force will go hand-in-hand with progress outside of the work force.
407
True. And raising children: somehow birth control, child care, etc--are considered the women's problem--rather than a family issue, as it rightly is.
For a society that says it is for family values, compared to other industrial countries--we don't.
For a society that says it is for family values, compared to other industrial countries--we don't.
36
Susan: the most common birth control method BY FAR is condoms. Condoms are used by MEN.
Therefore your statement ("birth control is the woman's problem) is provably untrue.
For what it is worth: I'm a woman. And frankly, since I was the one at risk for pregnancy (not anymore; that ship has sailed), I only trusted MYSELF to make the final decisions on contraception! But most women do not. They have a partner who uses condoms. This is a fact and you can look it up, or even refer to Planned Parenthood.
Therefore your statement ("birth control is the woman's problem) is provably untrue.
For what it is worth: I'm a woman. And frankly, since I was the one at risk for pregnancy (not anymore; that ship has sailed), I only trusted MYSELF to make the final decisions on contraception! But most women do not. They have a partner who uses condoms. This is a fact and you can look it up, or even refer to Planned Parenthood.
4
Concerned Citizen,
You too are incorrect.
Actually what's Taken most (as it pertains to Birth Control) is CHANCES.
You too are incorrect.
Actually what's Taken most (as it pertains to Birth Control) is CHANCES.
3
Well, one of my favorite sayings in this forum is that the best time to kick someone is when he's down. Kick hard enough, he may never get up again. Clearly, this cheery thought is caroming around the editors' heads as they consider the chaos in which Fox finds itself, and feel the need to contribute a sense of perspective.
For my own part, Fox's comeuppance is valuable if it instills the broad-based fear of consequences from which ALL decent social behavior evolves as starting-point. Let's hope that however it ends for Fox that society benefits from that comeuppance as much as it can.
For my own part, Fox's comeuppance is valuable if it instills the broad-based fear of consequences from which ALL decent social behavior evolves as starting-point. Let's hope that however it ends for Fox that society benefits from that comeuppance as much as it can.
56
When a self-important hypocrite finally suffers some consequences for his behavior in a public way, I don't think discussing it is kicking him when he is down. Especially when he has spent so much time lecturing others about their lack of moral character. Also, you may have missed a point of the article, that Fox, of the "family values" remains misogynistic.
79
@Richard Luettgen: The sympathy for Fox you reveal in your first paragraph is disgusting.
14
Fox News should cease to exist. Sheppard Smith is the only one left over there with a shred of integrity.
10
Have a look at the games men and women play with each other. Boys and girls, actually.
The manipulation. The treachery. The "war between the sexes."
Heck, have a look at the divorce rate.
Can't even work all that out - don't expect male/female relationships in the boardroom or anywhere else work-related to just smooth itself out. It won't.
You ladies have got to demand your rights - and I don't mean with signs. I mean with lawsuits.
The only way any woman is going to get the same pay as a man is if the man, who probably owns the business, gives it to them.
Did the slaves free themselves?
Neither will waiting until the creatures with the penises deign to pay women the same as the same job a man does. And then, when women have finally gotten equal pay, for good measure, quit saying stupid stuff to them. Quit hinting. Quit pinching. Quit being vindictive when she doesn't want your you-know-what. Quit beeping your horns. Quit whistling. Be a gentleman, for goodness' sake.
Not holding my breath, though.
But have at it, ladies. Lord knows the men have it coming to them. Hell, by filing lawsuits (and winning them, of course) you'll just be getting back the hundreds of millions of dollars denied to you in the first place.
Hit 'em in the bank account.