Obviously, Oscar Munoz underestimated the power of social media and apologized to his company's stock, NOT sincerely to all customers and the general public. He's the 1st one should be fired by shareholders.
12
This is about an airline that chose to remove a paid passenger from the plane to fly four employees to their job. If you have a full flight, put your employees on the next flight, not remove paying customers from the previous flight. The cops should be suspended; they used unreasonable force in a civil action -- this was not a criminal action. Contract dispute is not a criminal action, as so many comments have implied.
I will not fly United again.
I will not fly United again.
16
I am deeply concerned about the atrocious behaviours by employees of United Airlines and the Chicago Aviation Department onboard United Express Flight 3411. No one can torture another human-being (even criminals or prisoners) under any circumstances. Employees of United Airlines and the Chicago Aviation Department cannot abuse their power and attack citizens in such a manner. I encourage United Airlines and the City of Chicago take appropriate actions and provide adequate employee training and assessment. The City of Chicago should never again reward anyone for their violent behaviours. I have sent complaint letters to the City of Chicago, United Airlines, and FAA. To help United not to lose market value in the future and also to help all travellers, we should jointly request United to donate $1B to a traveller advocacy group to protect human rights of all travellers.
8
Unnecessary used of force. Police officers or private security are there to serve and protect. Period
"SERVE AND PROTECT "
"SERVE AND PROTECT "
10
United's culpability aside, what does it say about our society that we lack the empathy to respond to a fellow passenger in distress? It's safe to say that Dr. Dao was acting emotional enough to warrant law enforcement officials boarding the plane--before the video that was captured. I'm sad that he was strong-armed and dragged off, but I'm also dismayed that no one stood up in his place.
15
This is how capitalism is supposed to work. Why the outrage?
3
These are symptoms of the underlying problem: -Businesses decisions made in HQ that do not put the customer first. In this situation United chooses, as a matter of policy, to inconvenience customers. Sunday, to solve its staffing problem in Kentucky, United's policy was implemented resulting in inconveniencing of 4 customers, already boarded, who intended to depart from Chicago. In that this is United's chosen businesses practice, UNITED should hold four seats open on all flights to accommodate for the circumstance, and shouldering the potential monetary loss itself, -not at the expense of its customers.
10
I personally had a bad experience with United in 2013. I was treated with the utmost disrespect by a ticketing agent while being re-booked on another flight because the flight I was supposed to be on was cancelled. Long story short, there was no apology for the cancellation, then during the re-booking, I questioned her about something and she immediately snapped at me, “Do you want to get on this flight or not???” I was stunned. It wasn’t like I provoked her. I had to shut up and just let her put me wherever she wanted, because she was threatening to not book me on the next flight out. I filed a complaint with the airline, but I wasn’t compensated in any way. At the time of the incident, the CEO was Jeff Smisek. He resigned in 2015 after a government probe into what became known as the “chairman’s flight.” That was the personal flight of David Samson. United Airlines is as crooked as the day is long!
15
Firstly in these days of big data and sophisticated analytical software, the issue of overbooking seats by airlines is quite a puzzler. Booking seats in a plane should be quite a simple thing done by any PC worth its name, and usually be easily done by a simple transactional processing system. Overbooking seats has been a problem with airline for the past so many decades, perhaps from the beginning of commercial air travel and it is quite disconcerting that the issue still stands unresolved.
Secondly the whole affair is shrouded in mystery. Why should he be the only person refusing to deboard, that too when his own wife was already deboarded? What really went wrong ? Why should the staff resort to such force ? Did they try other means to bring the matter to a relatively amicable ending? We are fed information by the media, and such partial sensational video clips do not give the context. Nevertheless, the public sentiment gets stirred. The fiasco could partly be explained by the conditions in an airport where both the passengers and the crew of the plane are under duress and in frayed nerves, with the passengers wanting to get home at any cost and the crew who are mostly overworked, underpaid and impatient to get the plane off the ground. Off late, airports have become veritable battle grounds where the slightest slip could end in a major brawl. A thorough investigation into the incident is needed.
Secondly the whole affair is shrouded in mystery. Why should he be the only person refusing to deboard, that too when his own wife was already deboarded? What really went wrong ? Why should the staff resort to such force ? Did they try other means to bring the matter to a relatively amicable ending? We are fed information by the media, and such partial sensational video clips do not give the context. Nevertheless, the public sentiment gets stirred. The fiasco could partly be explained by the conditions in an airport where both the passengers and the crew of the plane are under duress and in frayed nerves, with the passengers wanting to get home at any cost and the crew who are mostly overworked, underpaid and impatient to get the plane off the ground. Off late, airports have become veritable battle grounds where the slightest slip could end in a major brawl. A thorough investigation into the incident is needed.
3
I stopped flying United years ago when an agent charged me $100 for a checked bag two pounds over their baggage weight limit even after I did what I could to shift the weight to another bag. Those who fly often know United staff are totally unconcerned with interpersonal decency and passenger comfort, so this latest example of their indecency surprised no one. And the CEO's original response revealed the misanthropic culture he's fostered. After all, an organization is the shadow of its leadership. But I've also reduced flying American Airlines, where I held the highest frequent flier status, because their new plane design is the most unpleasant of any airline flying: you can't even put a water bottle or a book in the seat pouch. Who designs such discomfort? So often --every flight-- I wish that their executives had to fly in coach to experience the demeaning discomfort. Overall flying has become an awful experience, especially when flying with one the big four airline monopolies. I was delighted when my Platinum frequent flier status was reduced to Gold because it confirmed that I was flying less. Let's face it, no one goes to work for an airline because they view it as a meaningful career. You see it in every one of their faces -- and hear it directly from them--that they work there because it is the only option available to them at that time and if they could work elsewhere they would. And our awful passenger experience reflects their alienated unhappiness.
14
The reason for the furor is that most of us fly. I'm a UA Frequent flyer. So we can empathize with the agony of being offloaded. What really hit home was the indignity of being assaulted! UA has lost me as a loyal customer for life! I've cut up my UA MileagePlus card & have changed June flight plans for LAS to JFK return to Delta. UA does appear to have a culture of corporate insensitivity & arrogance! The writer is right, the apologies ring hollow!
18
This story has made me glad I decided not to fly to Los Angeles this past winter, as I had been thinking about doing. Truth be told, I am not of the "Frequent Flyer Class," my last venture into the Wild Blue Yonder having been a two-week vacation in Europe -- London, Paris and Amsterdam -- way back in 1973. Since the dawning of this Brave New Century I have actually driven from New Jersey to California a few times as a summer road trip, but, as I was less than impressed by California, my more recent excursions on our magnificent Interstate Highway system have been shorter.
To the point, however. What stopped me from flying to L.A. was some quick research which showed me that there is no mass transit from LAX to the Downtown area where I wanted to go. Specifically I wanted to see the LA Opera production of Salome with Patricia Racette, having seen the Metropolitan Opera production in New York four times. I went so far as to purchase maps and L.A. guidebooks from Amazon, and learned that unless I rented a car, there is simply no way to get to most locations in Los Angeles.
To the point, however. What stopped me from flying to L.A. was some quick research which showed me that there is no mass transit from LAX to the Downtown area where I wanted to go. Specifically I wanted to see the LA Opera production of Salome with Patricia Racette, having seen the Metropolitan Opera production in New York four times. I went so far as to purchase maps and L.A. guidebooks from Amazon, and learned that unless I rented a car, there is simply no way to get to most locations in Los Angeles.
3
You're mistaken regarding no public transit to downtown LA from LAX. You can take a free shuttle bus to the Aviation/LAX station on the Green Line that is part of LA's Metro system. You can then switch to the Blue Line at the Willowbrooks/Rosa Parks station, which will then take you to downtown on 7th Street, near hotels and not too far from the Dorothy Chandler Pavilion. There are alternative routes too, which involve buses. Admittedly, none of these are that convenient - scheduled times are 90 minutes or more from LAX to downtown, and most routes require transfers - but it's incorrect to state that there's no way to get to downtown LA from LAX on mass transit.
However, your perception is widespread: I've yet to meet any travelers who have taken public transit from LAX to get to downtown LA - or anywhere in the LA area, for that matter. The NY Times hasn't helped by not mentioning any possibility of getting to LA-area destinations from LAX (or other airports) using public transit in their several articles over recent years about being a car-free tourist in LA.
If you do decide to fly to LAX, don't take United. As it seems you live somewhere in New Jersey, for non-stop flights, you can take Virgin America out of EWR. Or go to JFK and take Jet Blue or Delta - all three much better alternatives than United, even before the recent fiasco.
However, your perception is widespread: I've yet to meet any travelers who have taken public transit from LAX to get to downtown LA - or anywhere in the LA area, for that matter. The NY Times hasn't helped by not mentioning any possibility of getting to LA-area destinations from LAX (or other airports) using public transit in their several articles over recent years about being a car-free tourist in LA.
If you do decide to fly to LAX, don't take United. As it seems you live somewhere in New Jersey, for non-stop flights, you can take Virgin America out of EWR. Or go to JFK and take Jet Blue or Delta - all three much better alternatives than United, even before the recent fiasco.
8
Everyone who has ever flown on an airplane saw this video with horror.
We imagined ourselves being dragged, bleeding, from a seat we had paid for and were already occupying, while insisting that we needed to get to our destination. United Airlines should go out of business, and be replaced by a company that can figure out how to reserve seats for their employees on a regular schedule. How hard can that be?
We imagined ourselves being dragged, bleeding, from a seat we had paid for and were already occupying, while insisting that we needed to get to our destination. United Airlines should go out of business, and be replaced by a company that can figure out how to reserve seats for their employees on a regular schedule. How hard can that be?
24
If 434,000 voluntarily gave up seats and another 40,600 involuntarily gave up seats that tells me that although it is only a "fraction" of the 660 million people who flew - it was nevertheless a huge number of people inconvenienced because the airlines can't get their act together. They haven't had any motivation to change either but hopefully that will now change. But I'm not holding my breath.
14
No mention is made of the pilot, the captain of the ship and in full control, correct?
11
If 3 people were already removed from the flight and they needed 4 seats for the crew, why target a man who was reportedly with his wife? Wouldn't she be the 5th open seat or did they expect her to fly without her husband? That part doesn't make much sense and I have seen any reporter covering that angle.
11
United Airlines has always been notorious for arrogance and rude treatment of people. I'm a pilot, and many of my pilot friends have ended up working for United. Their personalities changed after going to work there - and not for the better. In fact, their friends have mostly given up on them. United has a corporate culture that is anti-social.
24
You are wrong about the $1350 upper limit. Airlines are limited on the least they can offer but not on the most. Mr. Munoz was too cheap to make it worth Dr. and Mrs. Dao's while to give up their seats.
16
I haven't flown United for years
But I do fly jetBlue about 45 times a year for years. And while I have never seen anything like what happened on the United flight I have been yelled at by the jetBlue gate folks a few times
Airline folks are very stressed out. They are underpaid and seem to have to work crazy hours.
Not an excuse but more of a warning this could happen on any airline.
But I do fly jetBlue about 45 times a year for years. And while I have never seen anything like what happened on the United flight I have been yelled at by the jetBlue gate folks a few times
Airline folks are very stressed out. They are underpaid and seem to have to work crazy hours.
Not an excuse but more of a warning this could happen on any airline.
9
"Airline folks are very stressed out."
Everyone today is "stressed out." Try using that excuse in traffic court.
Everyone today is "stressed out." Try using that excuse in traffic court.
8
United has admitted the flight was not "overbooked", as all passengers were in their seats at the time the four republic employees presented themselves for transportation. As they presumably did not actually pay for carriage, they were never "booked". Therefore, written procedures for overbooking did not technically apply. Consequently, United had no legal basis for removing the passenger from the jet by force. They then chose to involve some security personnel, who were not even permitted to carry lethal force to enforce what amounts to a disagreement over a civil contract of carriage where United was clearly in the wrong. Hopefully there will be a rather stiff punitive damages award against United to deter this reprehensible behavior.
22
Can someone explain why the aviation police who had to do United's dirty work were relieved of duty?
4
Probably because federal regulations on overbooking don't justify what they did; they should've refused to do it. Unfortunately the guy probably won't be able to sue the government for damages.
5
They are suffering the consequences of being poorly trained and poorly supervised. At the very least, if you are committed to physically removing him from the plane, then you should have a technique that doesn't involved the passenger's face getting smashed into an armrest. There was a shocking level of violence there.
I think I would have explained to the man that if he did not leave the plane he would be arrested upon arrival in Louisville.
Keep in mind that the passenger was hemmed in and probably embarrassed to be singled out.
This is where you needed de-escalation and talking, not violence.
You also needed better lines of communication all around.
But mostly, better training. If the security officer was not acting according to standards, why not? When was he last trained? Why did he think his behavior was what he was supposed to do?
I think I would have explained to the man that if he did not leave the plane he would be arrested upon arrival in Louisville.
Keep in mind that the passenger was hemmed in and probably embarrassed to be singled out.
This is where you needed de-escalation and talking, not violence.
You also needed better lines of communication all around.
But mostly, better training. If the security officer was not acting according to standards, why not? When was he last trained? Why did he think his behavior was what he was supposed to do?
7
This didn't happen in the Land of the Free, right?
It happened in United North Korean Airlines or Belarus or Tajikistan, or some similarl sort of place, didn't it?
In the US? really? GULP!
It happened in United North Korean Airlines or Belarus or Tajikistan, or some similarl sort of place, didn't it?
In the US? really? GULP!
13
Anyone been bumped due to overbooking on United since Sunday?
3
....Checking the local hospitals....
19
Don’t expect airlines to stop overbooking flights - they’ve done it forever to protect from no-shows. Hotels do it too, as do restaurants and doctors’ offices. The difference with the airlines is that if you’ve booked a non-refundable fare and don’t show up, for whatever reason, you’re going to lose multiple hundreds of dollars. No flat-tire rule any more! (And yes, I know the flight in question was not actually overbooked)
In this case: Should United have kept upping the reward for volunteers till they got one? Yes. Should they have paid for their crew to get to destination in another way? Yes. Why didn’t they? BECAUSE THEY ASSUMED THEY DIDN’T HAVE TO. They assumed that passengers would meekly follow their orders like sheep, because since 9/11 airline staff have been given god-like powers and people are afraid to say boo to them for fear of being kicked off or even arrested. I do hope Dr. Dao sues them but we’ll never hear the result because it’ll be settled out of court and sealed.
And for those who say they will never again fly United - or will never fly at all, I say this: The day you have a dear friend or relative getting married/graduating/having a baby thousands of miles away, you WILL fly. And if United happens to be $500-1000 per person cheaper than the next best choice, you WILL fly United. This is the way the airlines have us by the short hairs.
In this case: Should United have kept upping the reward for volunteers till they got one? Yes. Should they have paid for their crew to get to destination in another way? Yes. Why didn’t they? BECAUSE THEY ASSUMED THEY DIDN’T HAVE TO. They assumed that passengers would meekly follow their orders like sheep, because since 9/11 airline staff have been given god-like powers and people are afraid to say boo to them for fear of being kicked off or even arrested. I do hope Dr. Dao sues them but we’ll never hear the result because it’ll be settled out of court and sealed.
And for those who say they will never again fly United - or will never fly at all, I say this: The day you have a dear friend or relative getting married/graduating/having a baby thousands of miles away, you WILL fly. And if United happens to be $500-1000 per person cheaper than the next best choice, you WILL fly United. This is the way the airlines have us by the short hairs.
10
Bring back Continental!
8
An airline expert interviewed on NPR yesterday revealed that European airline passengers enjoy far greater rights than we do, thanks to the influence of PAC money in DC. Next time you buy a ticket, don't skip the fine print.
12
If airlines involuntarily bump over 40,000 flyers, and another 434,000 or so voluntarily bump themselves, that means that overbooking is actually happening at least 7.2% of the time. This means that 1 in every 14 ticket purchasers finds his/her ticket is not honored as purchased, despite the many regulations and strictures with which passengers must comply to travel.
As a consumer, I deem this unacceptable. When one purchases a ticket, and reserves a seat, etc. one enters a contract for travel services. To allow an airline unilaterally modify that contract without notice, compensation, and/or recourse is outrageous.
The practice of bumping passengers is especially egregious coming from an industry hat has gouged those passengers at every turn over the past decade. To bump a paying passenger, like Dr. Dao, at the last minute so that a crew can commute is a terrible precedent. Presumably the crew knew they would need to be in Louisville on Monday morning -- why this last minute scramble?
This whole situation stinks, and Dr. Dao deserves more than a lame, thrice-modified, quasi-apology from United and their thuggish enforcers.
As a consumer, I deem this unacceptable. When one purchases a ticket, and reserves a seat, etc. one enters a contract for travel services. To allow an airline unilaterally modify that contract without notice, compensation, and/or recourse is outrageous.
The practice of bumping passengers is especially egregious coming from an industry hat has gouged those passengers at every turn over the past decade. To bump a paying passenger, like Dr. Dao, at the last minute so that a crew can commute is a terrible precedent. Presumably the crew knew they would need to be in Louisville on Monday morning -- why this last minute scramble?
This whole situation stinks, and Dr. Dao deserves more than a lame, thrice-modified, quasi-apology from United and their thuggish enforcers.
16
Let's vote with out feet, put them out of business, make them unemployed (and unemployable). United employees--who are consistently rude and imperious--deserve the homeless shelters in which they will be living when the righteous wrath and indignation of the consumer strikes them down.
16
Let's keep this story in the news cycle, and not let it simply drift away. It doesn't necessarily have to distract our attention from the farce in the White House, and, in fact, it isn't distracting us at all. We can, of course, only focus on one thing at a time, as that should be understood from the definition of the word "focus." Nonetheless, even we relics of the pre-computer age have reluctantly acquired some ability at multi-tasking, albeit we are careful because we have seen the disastrous effects it can have on one's ability to think at all. Oops -- that last clause was an example of the "Post Hoc" fallacy, in its long form known as "Post Hoc, Ergo Propter Hoc."
What has dismayed me in these comments has been the occasional outlier view which would appear to defend the concept of "Authority" at all costs. That view of "Authority" as sacrosanct has never been what we Americans are about.
So let's keep this story alive. On that note, this present thread is (as I type) heading toward 3,000 comments, after having replaced a previous thread which was headed towards 7,000. Unfortunately, the middle portion of the old thread has become inaccessible -- scrolling from either end doesn't get you that far. Hey, we are pushing the technological envelope.
What has dismayed me in these comments has been the occasional outlier view which would appear to defend the concept of "Authority" at all costs. That view of "Authority" as sacrosanct has never been what we Americans are about.
So let's keep this story alive. On that note, this present thread is (as I type) heading toward 3,000 comments, after having replaced a previous thread which was headed towards 7,000. Unfortunately, the middle portion of the old thread has become inaccessible -- scrolling from either end doesn't get you that far. Hey, we are pushing the technological envelope.
14
I wish Bruce Lee would have been the Passenger. We would be watching a slight different outcome. Enter the Dragon version.
11
Many years ago we had a horrible experience with a nasty United flight attendant regarding travel with our 2 year old son. We had paid for a seat instead of having him sit in a lap. Just a few minutes before takeoff she came to us and demanded to see the FAA Orange sticker certifying our seat was rated. We didn't know what she was talking about. She insisted since we couldn't show her the sticker our son had to stay in our lap during takeoff. I told my husband: Strap him in (the heck with HER). Later, after landing, when we weren't flustered we flipped the chair over (which we had purchased from USAA) and there was the sticker. Later during the flight she again approached us and told us to keep our son quiet because he was disturbing a passenger a few rows back. The folks all around us were incredulous because he was quietly playing with his toy cars. No accounting for an attendant that has a terrible attitude. After writing a two page letter to United complaining about our treatment, we received a couple of worthless vouchers for our trouble. All I could think of was their slogan - Fly the (un)friendly skies of United. Wish I had had a cell phone back in that day. I would have posted it ASAP. Obviously United still isn't getting the training right.
19
I watched the video online and will never forget the terrible sight and sound of that poor man being dragged off and screaming like an animal being killed. And to think the other poor passengers had to witness and experience this savage attack first hand.
Then to hear from the airline spokesperson soon afterward that it was the victim's own fault for
not going along with the program he supposedly agreed to when purchasing his ticket, was just too much to bear!
Instead of sanctioning (assuming they had the legal right to) this passenger for future trips, or with a lawsuit to recoup the loss they feel he was responsible for, they opted to use the "Gestapo Squad" to solve this so-called big problem.
While I don't know which airline company I will fly with in the future, I do know for sure, IT WILL NOT BE UNITED AIRLINES!
Then to hear from the airline spokesperson soon afterward that it was the victim's own fault for
not going along with the program he supposedly agreed to when purchasing his ticket, was just too much to bear!
Instead of sanctioning (assuming they had the legal right to) this passenger for future trips, or with a lawsuit to recoup the loss they feel he was responsible for, they opted to use the "Gestapo Squad" to solve this so-called big problem.
While I don't know which airline company I will fly with in the future, I do know for sure, IT WILL NOT BE UNITED AIRLINES!
15
Sue them and hurt them. This is a result of allowing merger after merger and the milieu of money first and foremost. Add into that a bought and paid for Congress whose first instinct to do more for business interests and the rich instead of the vast majority of common, ordinary people. The government needs a drastic overhaul in every sphere it operates. There are a myriad of changes needed in how government is chosen and how it operates. But you won´t get it because they are all a bunch of power hungry, partisans, Democrat or Republican. The only difference is the Dems have a near conscience, sort of like near beer.
9
Two weeks ago United denied boarding to two girls wearing leggings. Last week CEO United threatened President of TriPacific Geoff Fearns with getting hand-cuffed. This week Dr David Dao gets dragged off a plane. Whats happening next week United?
12
You ask, "What's happening next week United?" If the company's past performance is any indicator, perhaps they will fire Oscar Munoz and replace him with Martin Shkreli as CEO.
1
This comes as no surprise to me. Six years ago, my husband and I were supposed to get on a flight back from Tokyo when United canceled our tickets with no explanation and no offer of an alternate flight or any kind of compensation. It cost us over $1,000 to book a flight back on another airline, and we never received a refund on the canceled tickets (in spite of numerous calls and emails to various customer service centers).
16
"'No one should ever be mistreated this way,' Oscar Munoz, the company’s chief executive, said in a statement."
Doesn't this mean there are better ways to "mistreat" passengers? Is the next step water-boarding if you refuse to give up your seat?
I am shocked by the level of violence displayed by the people who removed the passenger.
Doesn't this mean there are better ways to "mistreat" passengers? Is the next step water-boarding if you refuse to give up your seat?
I am shocked by the level of violence displayed by the people who removed the passenger.
18
Once upon a time I was a long-time United customer, but I stopped flying on United as a paying customer about three years ago. Thereafter, I quickly used up all my accumulated United mileage on reward flights and now I won't fly United at all.
In my experience, being a customer on the "new United" was just too likely to be really unpleasant. The only thing worse, from what I saw, is being an employee of the new United. Those people have my sympathy.
In my experience, being a customer on the "new United" was just too likely to be really unpleasant. The only thing worse, from what I saw, is being an employee of the new United. Those people have my sympathy.
8
The failure was with the gate agents. They should have had the seating sorted BEFORE anyone boarded the plane. This awful inhumane treatment is unforgivable. Air travel in the USA has become a travesty. Between the useless security theater to the airline corporations putting shareholder value ahead of the customer always comes first. Shame on you United Airlines.
17
United is now claiming the 4 people were removed from the plane for 4 airline employees could fly. An properly run airline should know in advance that employees have to fly for work. This excuse is worse than overbooking.
24
Received the following on WhatsApp and thought I should share.
Choice mottos from #NewUnitedAirlinesMottos
1. Enjoy a complementary copy of SkyMaul
2. United Airlines. Putting the hospital in hospitality"
3. "Not enough seating, prepare for a beating"
4. United Airlines App: "Now with Drag and Drop feature"
5. Southwest logo: "We beat the competition. Not You"
6. "Fly United and you'll have a bloody good time."
7. "Making sure doctors get to the hospital"
8. "Our prices are unbeatable. But not our customers. "
9. "Roses are red. Violets are blue. So will your face be when we're done with you"
10. "Now offering BOTH red eye and black eye flights."
Choice mottos from #NewUnitedAirlinesMottos
1. Enjoy a complementary copy of SkyMaul
2. United Airlines. Putting the hospital in hospitality"
3. "Not enough seating, prepare for a beating"
4. United Airlines App: "Now with Drag and Drop feature"
5. Southwest logo: "We beat the competition. Not You"
6. "Fly United and you'll have a bloody good time."
7. "Making sure doctors get to the hospital"
8. "Our prices are unbeatable. But not our customers. "
9. "Roses are red. Violets are blue. So will your face be when we're done with you"
10. "Now offering BOTH red eye and black eye flights."
46
11. "United: First, boarding... then, water-boarding (almost!)"
8
Maybe water-unboarding?
All this outrage at United Airlines, yet, it is only the video the act of force by the airport police that triggers the outrage.
Rather than focusing on airline booking policies, perhaps we really out to see this as yet another example of police using excessive force.
Why should police officers use force at all in this situation? This is not a case where the passenger is drunk, acting out or otherwise presenting a safety risk to the officers.
Shouldn't it be enough, as a matter of procedure that they advise the passenger that it is their understanding that he is legally obligated to leave the plane and if he refuses he will be in violation of such and such law or regulation and issue a corresponding citation/court summons pursuant to the Airline's complaint. The officers could then advise the airline that it should select someone else.
Perhaps, with the case before a judge, it would be determined that the passenger was justified in claiming right to stay in his seat. If the passenger is wrong, he will have to suffer the penalties.
What is the basis of a police officer ever using force without a judicial warrant or in a case where there is an immediate threat to public safety? Does the unwillingness of a citizen to do as a policeman commands warrant the use of force?
We have tolerated this only when we don't experience ourselves. It is wrong. And unfair to the police officers as well.
Rather than focusing on airline booking policies, perhaps we really out to see this as yet another example of police using excessive force.
Why should police officers use force at all in this situation? This is not a case where the passenger is drunk, acting out or otherwise presenting a safety risk to the officers.
Shouldn't it be enough, as a matter of procedure that they advise the passenger that it is their understanding that he is legally obligated to leave the plane and if he refuses he will be in violation of such and such law or regulation and issue a corresponding citation/court summons pursuant to the Airline's complaint. The officers could then advise the airline that it should select someone else.
Perhaps, with the case before a judge, it would be determined that the passenger was justified in claiming right to stay in his seat. If the passenger is wrong, he will have to suffer the penalties.
What is the basis of a police officer ever using force without a judicial warrant or in a case where there is an immediate threat to public safety? Does the unwillingness of a citizen to do as a policeman commands warrant the use of force?
We have tolerated this only when we don't experience ourselves. It is wrong. And unfair to the police officers as well.
15
I would love to see the arrogant, aggressive, abusive cops involved in this incident convicted of assault and spend the rest of their lives in prison or better yet be executed. Perhaps the dragged doctor could be invited to administer the lethal injections.
3
Dear United Airlines,
It's time to work on beating the competition, not your paying passengers.
It's time to work on beating the competition, not your paying passengers.
16
Why would ABC News attempt to discredit this 69-year-old physician by stating that he had been suspended from practicing medicine at least 10 years ago for some unnamed felony? This was broadcast last evening and I have seen no other references to it. Does ABC possibly have some corporate connection with United???
21
Agreed. That passenger's occupation, gender and ethnic background can in no way excuse the treatment he received.
11
by now folks have been informed of the felony conviction and subsequent suspension of Dr Dao's license, which was reinstated in 2015. The fact is that he paid his debt to society. Period.
10
Passengers are just annoying, animated cargo to Airlines.
14
Recently called United to ask about their policy for overbooked flights in light of the incident. Could NOT believe that the agent tried to convince me that the man was not actually dragged off the plane, she said "It just looked like he was."
15
You can drive from Chicago to Louisville in 5 hours. United certainly could have gotten those employees there without abusing a paying if it had chosen to do so.
13
The five hour drive could be shorter than the wait at the airport.
3
Three issues to remind voters as they discuss the situation
1. There needs to be adequate competition for markets to work. Either competition or regulation - can't not have both.
2. Since 1865, our country' s civic evolution can be reviewed to see how unusual or otherwise it is for corporate interests to use government to impose their will on the citizenry. What security could the passenger have called to protect himself from the corporate security. Think citizens united. No pun intended.
3.mandatory Disclosure and transparency of conditions of sale in simple language would go a long way towards greater balance in those terms and conditions.
1. There needs to be adequate competition for markets to work. Either competition or regulation - can't not have both.
2. Since 1865, our country' s civic evolution can be reviewed to see how unusual or otherwise it is for corporate interests to use government to impose their will on the citizenry. What security could the passenger have called to protect himself from the corporate security. Think citizens united. No pun intended.
3.mandatory Disclosure and transparency of conditions of sale in simple language would go a long way towards greater balance in those terms and conditions.
5
United was wrong. All they had to do was up the reward for getting off. I have been on many flights where this happens. They could have gone to $2000.00 and saved face, gotten great PR. and avoided a lawsuit in the millions.
I have been in business and once stiffed for $5000.00 U chalk it up to the price of doing business. I am sure they have ways of writing these "losses" off.
Fly another airline when possible. After all do u feel safe flying with a company that makes STUPID decisions??
I have been in business and once stiffed for $5000.00 U chalk it up to the price of doing business. I am sure they have ways of writing these "losses" off.
Fly another airline when possible. After all do u feel safe flying with a company that makes STUPID decisions??
9
In this globalized economy, transnational corporations are, by default, ambassadors of goodwill for their home countries. United Airlines's use of state-sanctioned violence to remove a law-abiding customer who had been seated for his flight has dealt a serious blow to the US's cultivated standing in the world on human rights, equality, and democracy. The time has come for the US Congress to re-examine and act to limit the powers of transnational corporations to undermine the interests of the United States.
11
That's the only "alternative" you can come up with? How about upping the "voucher" from $800 to maybe $1200? How about just taking the crew to Louisville by car or limo, which is only 5 hours away? Or putting the crew on another airline, or just charter a small plane?
19
Boycotting United alone is not enough. Boycott them all! This could have happened on any domestic carrier. Customers are not human beings who paid good money (even for "cheap" seats which aren't so cheap) to get somewhere, they are the inconvenient middle-men (and women) whom the airlines must deal with in order to get to their cash, end of story. If it were legal for big businesses to simply steal money openly, they would do that and drop the expensive pretext of providing some form of goods or service in exchange for money.
13
I have to be honest, United Airlines is my least favorite airline to fly on. After watching this video and realizing they can just tell you to get off the plane after you have paid and boarded, I'll never fly with them again.
19
Having flown 2.6 million miles on United, the conduct that occurred on Sunday was aberrant and extremely atypical for the airline. Their people are well trained and caring. I have never witnessed United representatives acting in such a callous or thoughtless manner. The entire incident could have been avoided simply by offering passengers the proverbial Don Corleone offer, an "offer that they couldn't refuse" meaning bidding up the amount of compensation to the point the airline obtained a sufficient number of volunteers. My guess is that United needs to provide more discretion to gate agents and other direct point of contact customer representatives so that they can resolve such difficult situations in the future by using ingenuity rather than calling on the police to confront a paying customer.
9
It seems it is time to re-accommodate Mr. Munoz.
26
Rule 25 of the Contract for Carriage only applies in the event a passenger is "denied boarding involuntarily." Once the passenger has boarded the flight, Rule 21 applies -- Refusal to Transport. Nothing in Rule 21 was applicable to Dr. Dao; he was entitled to keep his seat. And no, 21(H)(2) is not applicable. Any instruction or request by a member of the flight crew must be lawful and reasonable under the circumstances. They can't ask you to stab the person next to you and then kick you off the plane for not doing it.
25
Contract for carriage
or is it Contract for carnage?
or is it Contract for carnage?
9
I have already decided to boycott eh airline and have advised friends to do the same. This is not just because of what happened, but because they did not apologize until they realized their stocks were falling. It is outrageous that people should be bumped off their paid flight in the first place, but to do that to a doctor is also doing it to his patients. What kind of policy is that? Who would want to take an airline with that policy? How do we consumers get roped into this kind of small print deception? We need to understand what our rights are in big print, and we need to support those businesses who treat us with respect and fairness.
24
In his very late apology, Mr. Munoz wrote "It's never too late to do the write thing."
Mr. Muniz is wrong.
After poor staff schedule planning, beating an elderly man bloody, dragging him through a plane with his shirt up and glasses broken, refusing to apologize for beating him, publicly embarrassing him about his past - IT IS NOW FAR TOO LATE TO DO THE RIGHT THING.
Fix your broken United culture and remember the very simple maxim:
The customer is always right.
Mr. Muniz is wrong.
After poor staff schedule planning, beating an elderly man bloody, dragging him through a plane with his shirt up and glasses broken, refusing to apologize for beating him, publicly embarrassing him about his past - IT IS NOW FAR TOO LATE TO DO THE RIGHT THING.
Fix your broken United culture and remember the very simple maxim:
The customer is always right.
40
Corporate human resources training exists in this day and age. Conflict mediation anyone? If employees cannot discern the tipping point of a communication crisis at this level of customer service, there is serious lack of training within this company. How can the only alternative be to impose bodily harm on another person by involving law enforcement? There is not turning back once law enforcement is involved. What a sickening feeling this physician must have had during this encounter. Too much time has been allowed before the apology was offered. Its too late now for crisis communications to turn this situation around. Human beings need to be treated way better than this because its the right thing to do.
21
sorry, but united only apologized because people saw that what they did was wrong on a HUMAN level and it could have been any person who watched that video who could have been dragged off theplane. i'm still going to avoid flying on united from now on because of my disgust for
their behavior.
their behavior.
13
United's foolish behavior in the aftermath of this situation is typical of how it customarily treats customers. Some years back, I had to travel to Southern California on business and, although I'd had multiple bad experiences with it in the past, United was the only airline that could get me to where I needed to be when I needed to be there. Oops, not so fast. UAL canceled my flights two weeks in a row, via early morning (5:30) robocalls approximately 2 hours before flight time. When I scrambled to find another flight on each occasion, I was met with nonchalance and ineptitude. When I subsequently complained to UAL's customer "service" department and sought compensation (rather than a travel award) for the economic losses my firm had incurred, the airline simply ignored me after I challenged its boilerplate responses.
It was just a matter of time before United's contempt for its customers caught up with it. Couldn't happen to a more deserving company.
It was just a matter of time before United's contempt for its customers caught up with it. Couldn't happen to a more deserving company.
21
This is a leadership problem. Oscar Munoz needs to be booted from United. I've always liked United, but won't fly them again as long as this moron is at the helm. And NO paying passenger should be allowed to be booted from a flight without financial compensation. If the airlines overbook, then it's on them to fix the debacle that they created. If they need to get passengers off a flight, then they better start the bidding process. Once you buy a ticket for a flight, that is a CONTRACT. And anyway, offering financial incentives is ALWAYS good PR. It creates satisfied customers who become repeat customers. The fact that United didn't think about how much more it would cost them to physically assault a passenger, speaks volumes about its failure of leadership.
19
What I don't understand (I'm a 12 year old kid so this is very hard to understand) is why they had to pick that specific person?? Why couldn't they just announce that they will give 500$ in credit for any person to get off. Did the guy who got dragged off get lawyer and sue the business? To me this is very confusing and
I'm asking everyone I know. Can you guys give me some feedback on what actually happened so it is a little more clear.Thx
I'm asking everyone I know. Can you guys give me some feedback on what actually happened so it is a little more clear.Thx
8
United employees reportedly tried to get volunteers but didn't get any (they only offered 800 dollars in air miles when they can offer up to 1300 cash plus air miles). So they weren't offering a good deal and thus got no volunteers. When that happened they decided to randomly pick 4 people to get off the plane. This is a problem because the law says that can only happen before people are boarded, not after.
This passenger is a doctor who had patients to meet with and he didn't want to miss his flight, thus he refused to get up. Instead of picking another person United called the police and escalated the situation.
This passenger is a doctor who had patients to meet with and he didn't want to miss his flight, thus he refused to get up. Instead of picking another person United called the police and escalated the situation.
4
I can't imagine this happening on Southwest or WestJet (the Canadian airline modeled after Southwest). In fact, WestJet has a specific no-overbooking policy. If the load factor is too low, they change equipment for a smaller plane. In my experience (Toronto to Boston), UA simply cancels the flight if the load factor is too low.
4
Where is the consumer protection for paying customers? Does the Airlines get a free pass?
9
Our president would call UAL's treatment of its defenseless passengers " strong leadership ".
7
The board should seriously think of firing Munoz, his first two statements show just how much the man could have cared less, the fact that it took 3 attempts before admitting what happened was wrong and vowing to fix the problems shows that he has the attitude the rest of the airline industry has "the public be dammed" (unless, of course, you are flying first class or business class). It shouldn't have taken the outrage to get him to admit what everyone saw right away, that the airline was inconveniencing passengers for their own need and ended up treating a paying passenger like a criminal when he refused to accede. More importantly, what kind of person could see the video of what happened to the man and be disgusted by it, what kind of arrogant jerk could say the security people in question acted appropriately?
The only thing worse then him is the idiots on right wing talk radio or on here blaming the passenger for 'acting up', how dare he protest being thrown off a plane he bought a ticket on, after all the blessed corporation needed those seats *blah*. Blaming the victim is standard tactics when 'authority' acts out, and people who side with the airline should seriously do some self analysis, obediance to authority is the mainstay of totalitarian society, not a society who proclaims how we value individuals.
The only thing worse then him is the idiots on right wing talk radio or on here blaming the passenger for 'acting up', how dare he protest being thrown off a plane he bought a ticket on, after all the blessed corporation needed those seats *blah*. Blaming the victim is standard tactics when 'authority' acts out, and people who side with the airline should seriously do some self analysis, obediance to authority is the mainstay of totalitarian society, not a society who proclaims how we value individuals.
13
I want to emphasize that Dr. Dao was a physician who was vitally concerned about ministering to his patients. Compare this concern for human welfare and life with United Airlines' concern about profits and only profits.
America's airline carriers represent contemptuous, soulless capitalism at its very worst. I haven't forgotten how they were bailed out with taxpayer dollars some years ago, and what have we gotten for it? Clearly radical measures, like the expropriation and nationalization of the airlines, are needed.
America's airline carriers represent contemptuous, soulless capitalism at its very worst. I haven't forgotten how they were bailed out with taxpayer dollars some years ago, and what have we gotten for it? Clearly radical measures, like the expropriation and nationalization of the airlines, are needed.
10
New upgrade at United folks. Pay an additional $25 and we promise not to beat you in your seat. Another $25 and we will give you pretzels instead of rice crackers.
11
In all of this brouhaha, has any Government official thought about checking the flight manifest of the following day out of Louisville?
Did these four employees really work that flight as the CEO implied?
United --- bah!! United only for their own self-interests!!
Did these four employees really work that flight as the CEO implied?
United --- bah!! United only for their own self-interests!!
7
Airlines charge exorbitant fees if a passenger misses a flight and must rebook. So why on God's earth are airlines allowed to OVERBOOK their flights to make up for potential no-shows?? Isn't this the definition of having your cake and eating it too?
As for United's treatment of their passengers, I will make every effort to choose an alternative carrier going forward. I will remember the images of United's inhuman treatment of a paying passenger every time i have the choice to book between United and another airline.
As for United's treatment of their passengers, I will make every effort to choose an alternative carrier going forward. I will remember the images of United's inhuman treatment of a paying passenger every time i have the choice to book between United and another airline.
14
The "Friendly Skies"?
How is dragging a passenger off a flight an example of "Friendly Skies"?
How is dragging a passenger off a flight an example of "Friendly Skies"?
5
Well, at least they didn't kill him - that's Friendly Skies.
The current example of real world Friendly Skies can easily cost United a couple of billion dollars in lost sales in China alone, and may cost the shareholders a hundred million or two.
Besides, as can be seen in the videos, two of the executioners are clearly marked "POLICE" on the back of the uniforms. Chicago police re-enacting 'Gestapo and Jew'?
The current example of real world Friendly Skies can easily cost United a couple of billion dollars in lost sales in China alone, and may cost the shareholders a hundred million or two.
Besides, as can be seen in the videos, two of the executioners are clearly marked "POLICE" on the back of the uniforms. Chicago police re-enacting 'Gestapo and Jew'?
1
How is it that United gets so much blame when it was the police? And how is it that someone who resists an officer gets a pass for that? The man was really big into drama (mumbling "Just kill me") or just unwell. So, yeah, let's not let that person fly until he can be calm and respect the officers of the law.
1
"Resist an officer"? You got to be kidding. Was he combative? Why don't you google for the video that was shot before the officer dragged him off the plane. He was sitting in his seat and calming telling the officers that he has patients to see in the morning and that he does not wish to relinquish his RIGHTFUL seat. He was in a seat that he PAID for!. The officer had NO RIGHT to remove him. Why did the officer blinding listen to the airline to remove a passenger when he did NOTHING WRONG.
6
Unless a person is deemed a disruption to the safe operation of the plane or refusing to obey "Lawful" requests for the safety of the passengers and plane, this is a contract dispute, a civil matter, an internal UAL protocol issue. Not, a law enforcement issue. No laws were broken. It is incumbent on the officer to determine if any laws were broken or if there is any danger to the safe operation of the plane. If no law is broken, they advise the requesting party of this and leave. Law Enforcement are Not Bouncers for the disgruntled or a corporation or United Airlines. UAL was willing to give paying passenger seats to UAL employees deadheading to another flight. Law Enforcement does not exist to enforce corporate convenience, and a citizen has the right to disobey any unlawful, dangerous or illegal command given by a law enforcement officer. If this dr had been in a rental car or hotel room which a Agency wanted to give to the Boss's wife and he refused, should the police drag him from the rental car or hotel room and arrest him? Same thing my friend.
13
Unfortunately the officers of the law were violating federal airline regulations. Somehow you've ignored that minor little fact.
6
Shame on United and its inhuman policies. I will NEVER fly on United again. I will be happy too rent a car and drive. Did the Captain turn on the 'Fasten Seatbelt Sign'? "We will be experience a bit of turbulence". Glad there stock took a dive, hope it tanks even more. Glad there is video, now the man just needs good lawyers.
15
Return to those thrilling days of yesteryear when the airlines were regulated, one could go from here to there without going somewhere else, and travel was reasonably civilized, food, drink and even a pillow/blanket. Free market, competition, this ladies and gentlemen is the culmination of what we got after even the pathetic bag of free peanuts was taken away.
15
We decided several years ago, after repeated late arrivals that caused us to miss critical connections, that we will not fly United again. This situation confirms that we made the right choice. The alternatives aren't that much better, but we know that United does not mean friendly skies, that United does not mean that the customer comes first. There is a lot more than Dr. Dao's experience that Mr. Munoz should apologize for. Whatever happened to service?
15
Folks, let's vote with our wallets. Two American airlines are in Trip Advisor's list of the best airlines: Jet Blue and Alaska Airlines:
https://tripadvisor.mediaroom.com/2017-04-10-TripAdvisor-Names-The-Best-...
If you have a choice, and can pay the extra $30 or so it might cost, reward these airlines. And no, I'm not a paid shill from either of these airlines, just another passenger longing for a bit more respect!
https://tripadvisor.mediaroom.com/2017-04-10-TripAdvisor-Names-The-Best-...
If you have a choice, and can pay the extra $30 or so it might cost, reward these airlines. And no, I'm not a paid shill from either of these airlines, just another passenger longing for a bit more respect!
19
I still don't understand what happened. I read United's Contract of Carriage, and although it spells out conditions where United is allowed to deny boarding to a passenger, I don't see anything about United being allowed to remove people without their consent who have already boarded. United apparently didn't even follow their own terms.
21
I would like to point out that I am no so sure United act "within the law". You see, those overbooking practices refer to PRE-boarding. After the passenger is ALREADY boarded, he/she needs to be engaging in dangerous/obnoxious behavior to be booted. And, no, refusing to relinquish a paid seat to cover the company's own incompetence (drive your personnel, or lease an executive plane to get them there or pay MORE) is NOT obnoxious behavior.
27
The compensation to Dr. Dao should start by the re-accomodation of CEO Munoz's annual salary/bonus/stock options, and go up from there.
14
The alternative to removing a person who refused to leave would be to ground the aircraft and remove all the other passengers and call in a negotiating team to talk the one passenger off. I'm curious as to how Dr. Dao would deal with people that refuse to leave his place of business, or his home.
3
He probably wouldn't ask a customer who had paid for his product/service and was not causing a disturbance to leave without receiving that product or service.
6
Absolutely, it's always the victim's fault.
Did the plane crash? the passengers are to blame, they bought their tickets, didn't they?
Did the plane crash? the passengers are to blame, they bought their tickets, didn't they?
3
"United’s website says that when the airline cannot find volunteers, it will “deny boarding to passengers in accordance with our written policy on boarding priority.” Ms. McCarthy would not share the written policy." Well, then, I won't share my business with you, United. Ever. I fly the civilized skies - on Virgin.
16
So Munoz was ashamed when he saw the tape. Yet in his initial reaction he supported United's staff in their handling of the incident. Does that mean he took a position supporting the action taken, before he even looked at the tape? Hmmm.
Time for Munoz to go.
Time for Munoz to go.
19
yet another chilling vid clip of Dr. Dao in the aftermath of him being brutally removed from the UAL flight.
https://twitter.com/kaylyn_davis/status/851480498186485760
Dr Dao is seen there saying "just kill me" with a bloodied face still on the aircraft.
Like the Wells Fargo scandal, Wells CEO Stumph had to "step down" after mounting pressure from the media and stakeholders, UAL CEO Munoz should not only be removed from his post, but an investigation into UAL senior management and executive compensation is in order here.
https://twitter.com/kaylyn_davis/status/851480498186485760
Dr Dao is seen there saying "just kill me" with a bloodied face still on the aircraft.
Like the Wells Fargo scandal, Wells CEO Stumph had to "step down" after mounting pressure from the media and stakeholders, UAL CEO Munoz should not only be removed from his post, but an investigation into UAL senior management and executive compensation is in order here.
10
United couldn't possibly have been surprised that it needed those four staffers in Louisville for a flight on Monday. Wasn't that Louisville flight scheduled months in advance? Why was United shuffling to get the crew there the day before the flight? Not to minimize beating up paying passengers, but it looks like United also has a deeper issue of management incompetency.
11
The headline,across media, has been "United PR Nightmare". We read about United's stock tumbling, credit cards being cut up, customer protests,etc.
United is presented as the suffering victim here. Poor United. Another PR mess. Loss of revenue.
The story is that a private citizen was violently assaulted for no reason that can be ascribed to him. Imagine HIS nightmares. Imagine his nightmares as he relives this assault, and as he and his family view the endless scrolling of the scene of his nightmare over and over and over .
United is presented as the suffering victim here. Poor United. Another PR mess. Loss of revenue.
The story is that a private citizen was violently assaulted for no reason that can be ascribed to him. Imagine HIS nightmares. Imagine his nightmares as he relives this assault, and as he and his family view the endless scrolling of the scene of his nightmare over and over and over .
14
Can the dragged doctor sue UAL and the Chicago Police for violating his Cilil Rights or do only black, hispanic and LGBT people, but not whites or asians, have civil rights?
5
What's the retail equivalent here? Thank you for spending $500 on that item but we now would like to give it to one of our employees... surrender it or we will have security pummel you and drag you out.
What a business model. The corporate dystopia is already here.
What a business model. The corporate dystopia is already here.
20
Did we really watch of video of 20-something men dragging a 69-year old elder from an airplane?
Where was their sergeant? Where were their grandmothers? Where were their consciences?
Since airline selection systems for who can't board are not random, why can't they select for age?
Kudos to the passengers who yelled "This is wrong!" Crew, what were you doing off-camera? Last time I rode the bus, the driver explicitly instructed teens to stand up and give their seats to elders.
Where was their sergeant? Where were their grandmothers? Where were their consciences?
Since airline selection systems for who can't board are not random, why can't they select for age?
Kudos to the passengers who yelled "This is wrong!" Crew, what were you doing off-camera? Last time I rode the bus, the driver explicitly instructed teens to stand up and give their seats to elders.
16
Nothing will happen here. Oscar may not win an Oscar but his initial response definitely reflects whom we've become. Yes, things are exacerbated (against) at the bottom and (for) at the top, but make no mistake, the middle is rotten to the core. We have not evolved with the opportunities we have been given. We have become frightened, on edge, and have no energy for the future except at the spear's tip of development.
No one is going to stop flying United. People will only ask themselves if they made their connection. We'll say things like, "It could have been handled differently;" that is, "Excuse me, I'll miss my connection."
We are nation fractured beyond philosophical recognition, a scrambled egg trying to work its way back into the shell. We are horrified not by what we saw but by the subconscious knowledge that we are not really horrified at all.
We are Trump's blasts until the music stops.
No one is going to stop flying United. People will only ask themselves if they made their connection. We'll say things like, "It could have been handled differently;" that is, "Excuse me, I'll miss my connection."
We are nation fractured beyond philosophical recognition, a scrambled egg trying to work its way back into the shell. We are horrified not by what we saw but by the subconscious knowledge that we are not really horrified at all.
We are Trump's blasts until the music stops.
9
Ref:A.M.Payne--so you are what is referred to as a "glass half-full" person?? Now I feel motivated and enlightened.
1
No, never. And I am not alone.
2
I flew United from the East to West Coast last summer. I arrived within the time limit for checking my bags. At the desk, the unhelpful and rude 'customer service' agent told me that the flight was overweight (whatever that means) and that I could not check my bags.
Say what?
It's 6am, I am in the airport. What am I supposed to do with my luggage?
Then she told me that I was checking in too late (LIE) and refused to give me a boarding pass.
But I already had a boarding pass! Infuriated, she told me "It doesn't matter, you'll never make it through security in time to board your flight".
Lucky for me, my brother dropped me off and was still in the vicinity. He picked up my luggage. I went to the gate (with more than enough time to get through security).
More mayhem awaited-- the even more rude (if that can be possible) gate agent was harassing people about their carry-ons being too big. He took one look at my bag and TRIED TO DENY ME BOARDING because he said my bag was too big, without even putting it into the bag-sizer. My bag easily fit into the sizer, and I walked down the jetway.
I complained to United and got some lame travel vouchers--lame because who wants to travel with a company that so disregards and mistreats their customers? And all because United 'needed' to carry some extra cargo, so their paying customers were denied their right to bring luggage.
Welcome to 'the friendly skies of United!'
Say what?
It's 6am, I am in the airport. What am I supposed to do with my luggage?
Then she told me that I was checking in too late (LIE) and refused to give me a boarding pass.
But I already had a boarding pass! Infuriated, she told me "It doesn't matter, you'll never make it through security in time to board your flight".
Lucky for me, my brother dropped me off and was still in the vicinity. He picked up my luggage. I went to the gate (with more than enough time to get through security).
More mayhem awaited-- the even more rude (if that can be possible) gate agent was harassing people about their carry-ons being too big. He took one look at my bag and TRIED TO DENY ME BOARDING because he said my bag was too big, without even putting it into the bag-sizer. My bag easily fit into the sizer, and I walked down the jetway.
I complained to United and got some lame travel vouchers--lame because who wants to travel with a company that so disregards and mistreats their customers? And all because United 'needed' to carry some extra cargo, so their paying customers were denied their right to bring luggage.
Welcome to 'the friendly skies of United!'
18
What's wrong with wearing leggings on an airline and what possible justification could the airline ever provide? People in first class do it all the time. I'd like to see UAL just try to throw someone out of first class. The only way UAL will change is to hit them where they'll really hurt...their wallet. But they will be on good behavior for only a short while. Look at Wells Fargo.
UAL needs to check it's ego on the gateway because this behavior is unacceptable.
I hope Dr. Dao sues UAL for hundreds of millions of dollars because no jury would every accept or condone how he was treated.
UAL needs to check it's ego on the gateway because this behavior is unacceptable.
I hope Dr. Dao sues UAL for hundreds of millions of dollars because no jury would every accept or condone how he was treated.
6
Okay so I get why airliners overbook, if somebody does not show up than it makes sense that another person sits on their seat. More money for them, and its more efficient. However if a customer already sat down than that's it, no going back.
The policy should be the following. If two tickets are for the same seat, the person that comes later gets kicked of (by not being allowed on the plane at all), and purchased an immediate 1st class ticket on the first flight leaving to the customer's destination.
This way the air liners can still overbook, and those that get on a plane have assurance that they will stay on it.
The policy should be the following. If two tickets are for the same seat, the person that comes later gets kicked of (by not being allowed on the plane at all), and purchased an immediate 1st class ticket on the first flight leaving to the customer's destination.
This way the air liners can still overbook, and those that get on a plane have assurance that they will stay on it.
3
And not one single person on that flight stood up to help a man being dragged off the plane, people are so pathetic! But everyone just sits there and films it instead
3
Let's see - an unlicensed 'doctor' needs to see his 'patients' and refuses to leave the plane. Drag him off! 'Nuf said.
2
Ref: Garz--another brainless law an order type--no doubt someone entrusted you with a firearm as well.
6
The town dog catcher should be given the same respect as any other passenger. Who should judge worthy occupations?
7
What do you mean by "unlicensed"?
Alternative fact.
Dr. Dao's license was reinstated in 2015.
Alternative fact.
Dr. Dao's license was reinstated in 2015.
6
We certainly hope for more from service providers, but basic dignity is an abject requirement. Period. Full-stop.
5
What is missing from this discussion is the fact that flights are often overbooked because corporate contracts allow them guaranteed seats on planes at whim, and to be 'no-show' for those seats, with impunity. Other passengers are then bumped if these options are exercised on a full flight.
Large industrial or financial companies have travel contracts with the airlines that get their people on board at the drop of a hat. Even a mid sized company in a medium city might have this kind of option for their executives. The airline counts on them not using the option, which they don't 98% of the time. But when they do, other regular passengers are made to suffer.
Worth looking into NYT?
Large industrial or financial companies have travel contracts with the airlines that get their people on board at the drop of a hat. Even a mid sized company in a medium city might have this kind of option for their executives. The airline counts on them not using the option, which they don't 98% of the time. But when they do, other regular passengers are made to suffer.
Worth looking into NYT?
8
Why is it even legal for an airline to sell the same seat twice?
Why are airlines and cable companies exempt from basic customer service standards?
"Re-Accommodating"? Who at United decided to hire the PR firm of Orwell & Goebbles?
So many questions...
Why are airlines and cable companies exempt from basic customer service standards?
"Re-Accommodating"? Who at United decided to hire the PR firm of Orwell & Goebbles?
So many questions...
8
How many will remember United saying it screwed up? How many will remember that United said that only after 48 hours of blaming others created a PR inferno?
It's a simple rule: if you screw up, say so, fix it, and move on.
It's a simple rule: if you screw up, say so, fix it, and move on.
5
Clearly, the gate staff have an incentive to minimize the amount offered to get passengers to "volunteer". At $800, they had not even reached the $1350 maximum. So now you have employees not wanting to reach the maximum bribe due to their incentives. This is a clear failure for management, which comes from the top! Mr Munoz, that is you!
Why is the maximum of apparently $1350 a regulation from the FAA? It seems there should be no limit. Remember, this whole problem was caused by UA, not the customer!
UA has NOT yet provided the "published" policy.
Pathetic!!!
Why is the maximum of apparently $1350 a regulation from the FAA? It seems there should be no limit. Remember, this whole problem was caused by UA, not the customer!
UA has NOT yet provided the "published" policy.
Pathetic!!!
14
The word "R-E-S-P-E-C-T" hasn't come up enough in this incident. United clearly doesn't teach the concept to its employees. The company had good reason to ensure that 4 people debarked so their employees could get where they were much needed, and contractually they have the right to insist.
What seemed to be lacking was a respectful dialog with the passengers, explaining why the airline needed 4 people to accept a well-reimbursed inconvenience to avoid greater inconvenience to a large number of people, an approach that said, "Hey, here’s the situation- we're all in this together and here's how we can work together to achieve an acceptable outcome for the most people."
Instead, we saw the exercise of raw power and as some have pointed out, this is becoming more common in all walks of life, particularly in commerce and government. We fought a revolutionary war to make the point that government must be enabled by the general consent of the governed, but too many governments no longer respect that principle. Witness our current administration, which still hasn't acknowledged it lost the popular vote by 3 million legal voters. We speak of "voting with our wallets" but when commerce becomes a series of de facto monopolies, that doesn't work very well. That leaves us to fight our next revolutionary war in social media.
Aux claviers d'ordinateurs, citoyens! To the keyboards, citizens!
What seemed to be lacking was a respectful dialog with the passengers, explaining why the airline needed 4 people to accept a well-reimbursed inconvenience to avoid greater inconvenience to a large number of people, an approach that said, "Hey, here’s the situation- we're all in this together and here's how we can work together to achieve an acceptable outcome for the most people."
Instead, we saw the exercise of raw power and as some have pointed out, this is becoming more common in all walks of life, particularly in commerce and government. We fought a revolutionary war to make the point that government must be enabled by the general consent of the governed, but too many governments no longer respect that principle. Witness our current administration, which still hasn't acknowledged it lost the popular vote by 3 million legal voters. We speak of "voting with our wallets" but when commerce becomes a series of de facto monopolies, that doesn't work very well. That leaves us to fight our next revolutionary war in social media.
Aux claviers d'ordinateurs, citoyens! To the keyboards, citizens!
8
My wife and I have boycotted United for years. It kept us and other passengers waiting for hours before our pilot and copilot finally sauntered -- Starbucks cups in hand -- toward the packed plane in New Jersey for takeoff and a long, late, delayed flight.
13
Law and justice are not the same thing. Some bad laws need to be changed (remember legal slavery everyone?).
If the airlines want our purchased seats back, they need to buy them back from us at supply and demand prices (whatever prices passengers are willing to sell them at)! Change the laws so that airlines can't take back our purchased seats with violence and other forms of intimidation.
I and everyone I know are beyond outrage about this incident.
The man's background is irrelevant. At the time of the beating, bloodying, and dragging, the man's history was unbeknownst to United. At that point, he was a random passenger. If they would pull a doctor from the plane, they would have done the same to any one of us if we needed to get home immediately and refused to give up our seat. I can imagine several scenarios in my life (needing to get home) that might prompt me to do the same thing this man did.
What an outrage. The CEO and all involved should be fired.
If the airlines want our purchased seats back, they need to buy them back from us at supply and demand prices (whatever prices passengers are willing to sell them at)! Change the laws so that airlines can't take back our purchased seats with violence and other forms of intimidation.
I and everyone I know are beyond outrage about this incident.
The man's background is irrelevant. At the time of the beating, bloodying, and dragging, the man's history was unbeknownst to United. At that point, he was a random passenger. If they would pull a doctor from the plane, they would have done the same to any one of us if we needed to get home immediately and refused to give up our seat. I can imagine several scenarios in my life (needing to get home) that might prompt me to do the same thing this man did.
What an outrage. The CEO and all involved should be fired.
Everyone who flies on United is complicit.
If you read some of the aviation websites, the general response from people who work for the airlines is "The man deserved it." So even if United revises it's policies, I am not sure how much change we will see on the ground. The only thing that will matter is the bottom line so let's have more competition in the market. Only then will things improve. Otherwise we get platitudes.
Definitely an opportunity for the train to make a come back.
Say goodbye to being shoe-horned into a seat, there is standing room too and you get to see America in all its glorious diversity.
Say goodbye to being shoe-horned into a seat, there is standing room too and you get to see America in all its glorious diversity.
I recall that we have Ralph Nader to thank for any fair treatment at all. Back in the 60's or maybe early 70's he got bumped due to overbooking and sued. Out of that came publicity about the practice of overbooking and regulations requiring disclosure of policy and offering rebooking and compensation. Thanks, Ralph!.
I'm sad to see United has forgotten what used to be excellent customer service that I experienced many times.
I'm sad to see United has forgotten what used to be excellent customer service that I experienced many times.
I have the feeling that CEO Oscar Munoz is facing re-accommodtion in employment.
There is no need for United. Let it die as a warning to other corporations that serve themselves over the public.
14
I notice in the CEO's messages that he doesn't, at any point, mention how the airline will stop its practice of overbooking flights.
12
It is sadly telling of the state of airlines today that the CEO of United Airlines did not recognize that dragging a paying passenger off a plane was mistreatment. It took him several PR tries to finally see what the rest of us saw. In his eyes and those of his employees, dragging a paying passenger off a plane is normal airline behavior toward paying customers.
18
So buying an airline ticket is a gamble that consumers are forced to play if they want to fly. It's insane that Airlines are legally allowed to sell the same seat twice, and also kick off paying passengers to accommodate their free-ride employees. Who is responsible for that law?
Also, I do not understand why what was a civil problem between an airline and a paying passenger ended up by the passenger being brutalized by security forces. Are airlines crews not trained to handle disputes and fine resolutions. Where was the Captain? I am sure it is not the first time. Why this need to involve the heavy hand of the law. Lazy, lazy lack of leadership and training - saves money does it? Made me remember countries I have traveled through where the military or a dictator is in command, where the same thing often happened on buses, where brutalization was a fearful norm - not whether but when.
Corporations have been given the power of dictators ! When does it stop.
Also, I do not understand why what was a civil problem between an airline and a paying passenger ended up by the passenger being brutalized by security forces. Are airlines crews not trained to handle disputes and fine resolutions. Where was the Captain? I am sure it is not the first time. Why this need to involve the heavy hand of the law. Lazy, lazy lack of leadership and training - saves money does it? Made me remember countries I have traveled through where the military or a dictator is in command, where the same thing often happened on buses, where brutalization was a fearful norm - not whether but when.
Corporations have been given the power of dictators ! When does it stop.
18
Time to re-regulate the airlines, but it won't happen with Republicans in charge. Come to think of it, nothing that helps and protects the American people ever happens with Republicans in charge.
Wasn't the steep drop in fuel costs (now several years old) predicted to reduce the price of air travel? Instead we got corporate consolidation and a host of new surcharges.
Wasn't the steep drop in fuel costs (now several years old) predicted to reduce the price of air travel? Instead we got corporate consolidation and a host of new surcharges.
18
It's stupid for airlines to overbook!
First let me say with 4 airlines controlling 80% of the domestic flights, air travel will not get better anytime soon. We are a captive audience.
Secondly, all airlines that overbook their flights are well aware of the game they are playing to maximize profits, that I can understand. They are in a sense gambling, but the vig is in their favor. What should happen, when you are booking a flight, is that they should tell you that your ticket is an "overbook", and you run the risk of not making on a specific flight because of that fact. They should clearly state that you may not make a flight.
But they don't.
If I was booking a ticket and was noted that I was an overbook, I would consider going to another airline or flight to insure I was making the travel arrangements I wanted. An informed decision is all I want.
Not making the passenger aware of a flight overbook prior to finalizing a ticket is arrogance on their part. And this little debacle is going to cost them in many ways, and their public relations reaction was so poor that I would have failed any student that came up with their response in a Public Relations class. United needs new damage control people.
Secondly, all airlines that overbook their flights are well aware of the game they are playing to maximize profits, that I can understand. They are in a sense gambling, but the vig is in their favor. What should happen, when you are booking a flight, is that they should tell you that your ticket is an "overbook", and you run the risk of not making on a specific flight because of that fact. They should clearly state that you may not make a flight.
But they don't.
If I was booking a ticket and was noted that I was an overbook, I would consider going to another airline or flight to insure I was making the travel arrangements I wanted. An informed decision is all I want.
Not making the passenger aware of a flight overbook prior to finalizing a ticket is arrogance on their part. And this little debacle is going to cost them in many ways, and their public relations reaction was so poor that I would have failed any student that came up with their response in a Public Relations class. United needs new damage control people.
9
The overwhelming thrust of headlines in all media is "United PR Nightmare."
United is losing customers, United stock is falling, United credit cards are being destroyed. United is the suffering victim in this story?
A man was violently assaulted--imagine HIS nightmares!
United is losing customers, United stock is falling, United credit cards are being destroyed. United is the suffering victim in this story?
A man was violently assaulted--imagine HIS nightmares!
12
Maybe United should merge in some fashion with Wells Fargo. Sound like a good match.
11
The U.S. airline industry, including all companies, should hang their heads in shame. They offer quite simply the worst services and they overcharge for everything. Any other country has better airlines than the US. I am ashamed and I invite everyone to use foreign airlines as much as possible.
9
Oscar Munoz only apologized after UAL's stock took a devestating dive. The man is clueless with regards to customer service as are most CEO's. They have their head in the clouds.
When they chose the 4 people to be removed, I wonder whether first and business class passengers were included? Yes, I know, silly question.
well, at least he didnt have to eat the inflight meal
see, theres always a silver lining
7
Too late for Mr. Munoz' hypocritical apology. He already said what he REALLY though and felt in his earlier remarks blaming Dr. Dao.
In in addition to being violent and inhumane, United's response to this situation was just plain stupid. When a passenger objects so vehemently to being removed, he probably has good reason. The obvious solution--go on to the next candidate.
As for the employees needing to travel, send them by bus. They'll have a better ride.
With this and the leggings issue, United has shown itself to be the UNFRIENDLY SKIES.
In in addition to being violent and inhumane, United's response to this situation was just plain stupid. When a passenger objects so vehemently to being removed, he probably has good reason. The obvious solution--go on to the next candidate.
As for the employees needing to travel, send them by bus. They'll have a better ride.
With this and the leggings issue, United has shown itself to be the UNFRIENDLY SKIES.
"She said its agents follow a protocol for determining who will be selected, aiming to avoid families traveling together..."
In one of the videos, I see a woman following after Dr. Dao ...wasn't it his wife? She appeared to be travelling with him - I could be mistaken.
In one of the videos, I see a woman following after Dr. Dao ...wasn't it his wife? She appeared to be travelling with him - I could be mistaken.
2018 NYC 3 hours ago
I would never survive an assault such as this by anyone. It would kill me because I most likely would die of fright (as in sudden cardiac arrest for which I take medication twice per day to prevent to prevent.) United Airlines now has me terrified of it. I am a VIP, Frequent Flyer & all the rest of the special elite nonsense. I am in all their private little/big clubs etc. I have an "elite" VIP credit card.
I have now destroyed it.
Bye-bye United Airlines. You are NOT the only plane in town. And yet another "thank you" to Steve Jobs & his genius iPHONE. You've saved lives.
Who knew?
I would never survive an assault such as this by anyone. It would kill me because I most likely would die of fright (as in sudden cardiac arrest for which I take medication twice per day to prevent to prevent.) United Airlines now has me terrified of it. I am a VIP, Frequent Flyer & all the rest of the special elite nonsense. I am in all their private little/big clubs etc. I have an "elite" VIP credit card.
I have now destroyed it.
Bye-bye United Airlines. You are NOT the only plane in town. And yet another "thank you" to Steve Jobs & his genius iPHONE. You've saved lives.
Who knew?
15
I don't fly. Problem solved. And my life that much simpler
1
A day late....and a few dollars short.
They could have kept bumping up the rewards to their maximum, and they could have flown their morning flight staff on another airline.....but NEVER TOUCH a customer.
The airlines would do well to revise their algorithms regarding how full to book, and re-institute the standby basis to fill in the gap. This would be a nightmare to experience.
NOT SO FRIENDLY SKYS ANYMORE?
They could have kept bumping up the rewards to their maximum, and they could have flown their morning flight staff on another airline.....but NEVER TOUCH a customer.
The airlines would do well to revise their algorithms regarding how full to book, and re-institute the standby basis to fill in the gap. This would be a nightmare to experience.
NOT SO FRIENDLY SKYS ANYMORE?
7
Why not use one of the airline's executive jets or charter a small plane?
Not very imaginative leadership.
Not very imaginative leadership.
The government should intervene and regulate against involuntary removal immediately. We did out part by paying for the ticket and showing up for the flight. Absent regulation, airlines will do whatever they can get away with to maximize profit, at the expense of their passengers. It is the role of government to intervene. Absent government regulation, airlines rightly claim have no choice due to marketplace competition.
It's the same reason companies offshore jobs or in earlier days used child labor. Their competitors are doing it too and they would go out of business if they didn't follow suit.
It's the same reason companies offshore jobs or in earlier days used child labor. Their competitors are doing it too and they would go out of business if they didn't follow suit.
2
The idea of compensation for a later flight is a false and useless promise to many. It also might explain why they couldn't find any takers in this particular instance.
This was apparently the last Sunday evening flight before the work week started. So the odds of people being no-shows, or being flexible enough to take compensation is already greatly diminished. And the compensation is hardly a lot for even the average person to miss a few days of work, much less a high earner.
The other problem is when the next available flight is. Often times it's not for a day or two. Or it's got 15 connections. This also makes standard compensation inadequate. I'd love to know when the next direct flight from Chicago to Louisville was.
The airlines have changed the quality of their service, the timings of their routes, and number of times they fly their routes. They have not upgraded and changed their compensation patterns or contingencies when things go wrong-- which they seem to do more and more.
If Congress ever gets around to passing that pie in the sky infrastructure package, I hope it includes subsidies for smaller carriers to compete for more routes, instead of this unregulated monopolistic mess they have created for us. Thanks Congress!
This was apparently the last Sunday evening flight before the work week started. So the odds of people being no-shows, or being flexible enough to take compensation is already greatly diminished. And the compensation is hardly a lot for even the average person to miss a few days of work, much less a high earner.
The other problem is when the next available flight is. Often times it's not for a day or two. Or it's got 15 connections. This also makes standard compensation inadequate. I'd love to know when the next direct flight from Chicago to Louisville was.
The airlines have changed the quality of their service, the timings of their routes, and number of times they fly their routes. They have not upgraded and changed their compensation patterns or contingencies when things go wrong-- which they seem to do more and more.
If Congress ever gets around to passing that pie in the sky infrastructure package, I hope it includes subsidies for smaller carriers to compete for more routes, instead of this unregulated monopolistic mess they have created for us. Thanks Congress!
5
Understand that nothing will change.
Munoz may have been forced into a faint and reluctant "apology", but the message is clear:
Do not resist relinquishing your seat when 'asked' to do so, or we will do this to you, too.
Eagerly awaiting the civil action doubtless to follow.
Munoz may have been forced into a faint and reluctant "apology", but the message is clear:
Do not resist relinquishing your seat when 'asked' to do so, or we will do this to you, too.
Eagerly awaiting the civil action doubtless to follow.
10
Sickened by this event, but delighted it was taped. The video gives us a glimpse of brutality. This sort of brutality has been reported by many throughout the country and only half believed. Brutality preys on the weak and flummoxes the civilized, evidenced by a lack intervention on the part of the witnesses. The airline and the brutes should face serious consequences. In that greed and power are the culprits here, it is right that the consequences be both financial penalty and loss of professions.
10
...that government of the corporations, by the corporations, for the corporations, shall not perish from the earth.
For consumers, it has felt like this poorly deplaned passenger's day, for quite some time now. We who are victims of the large monopolist behemoths--from faulty product to faulty customer services accessed over voice mail hells or equally tortuous web text conversations. We have no choice, but put up with their ridiculous practices. Do we really need this endgame capitalism?
5
The People's Volunteer Army was what China deployed in the Korean War. That's UA's idea of volunteering. Is it so hard for brainless corporate employees to raise the dollar incentive to get real volunteers to give up their seats? And after that, UA chose to go the full Orwellian route in its twisting of what had happened.
I would have taken the money out of my pocket or did anything to avoid such a scene.
1
The only operational reform that is likely to arise from this event is that airlines will ensure that they do all their bumping before passengers are seated.
Oh yeah -- companies will be more careful not to speak their truths in public, as Oscar Munoz did initially. Those truths, however, will remain unchanged.
Oh yeah -- companies will be more careful not to speak their truths in public, as Oscar Munoz did initially. Those truths, however, will remain unchanged.
Why did it take the UAL stock price to start tumbling downward to suddenly this "revelation" ? They just don't mean it.
I will try never to use UNITED airlines ever again .
I had to use "try" since they could be the last resort airlines in many places in USA and they get to bump "human" beings unlike anywhere in the world even in deepest Africa.
I will try never to use UNITED airlines ever again .
I had to use "try" since they could be the last resort airlines in many places in USA and they get to bump "human" beings unlike anywhere in the world even in deepest Africa.
6
The victim is a physician married to a physician with two children who are physicians and another who is in medical school. The United/physician assault now seems virtual fuel for those who condemn the direction of US culture to a violent investor/plutocracy driven deregulated government and economy. Have the GOP and Trump White House headed further down this descending cul-de-sac of poor and middle class peasants living at gunpoint with toxic air & water with available jobs only to serve those with offshore accounts who fly private jets and socialize at Mira Lago?
5
Having been mistreated by United Airlines in the past, I have not used that airline for several years. I have traveled most of the world and over time have seen the general decline of service and comfort in air travel, most especially with American carriers. United is by far the worst of the lot. I can only hope that this latest outrage will result in their failure as a business and that they will cease to exist. It is time that we as American consumers stop patronizing corporations like United (and Wells Fargo) and punish them where it hurts most, at the bottom line.
Airlines optimize their profits by accepting the need to eject passengers who have paid for a seat. Said another way, it is part of the "business model." If airlines were required to pay $10,000 in cash, on the spot, before they could refuse to board a paying passenger who shows up on time, the "profit optimization model" in use would reduce drastically the practice of overbooking. Once paying passengers are boarded, the required payment in cash should be $20,000. With all the security measures in place, airlines should have no problem keeping $100,000 or so, in cash, at each airport they serve, should the need arise to pay compensation without delay. Stick that element into the profit optimization model and the instance of overbooking would likely disappear. It is all in the software . . . . DPD
6
This is why airline DE-regulation is not necessarily a good thing. Forcibly bumping a person from a flight should be illegal.
6
In March of 1969 several airlines went on strike and United carried on.
As a result of their employees being over worked a few became testy but not upsetting. I was informed that stewardesses and other personnel training included handling of emergency situations. Apparently that policy went by the wayside up and down the ranks of those involved in this recent situation. Flying use to be a beautiful experience.
As a result of their employees being over worked a few became testy but not upsetting. I was informed that stewardesses and other personnel training included handling of emergency situations. Apparently that policy went by the wayside up and down the ranks of those involved in this recent situation. Flying use to be a beautiful experience.
1
If this hadn't been made public and the passenger were to sue United would be issuing statements that justified dragging him from the plane. In other words, they're apologizing only because they were caught at it.
19
So Oscar Munoz, PR Week's Communicator of the Year, shot off a couple of missives before consulting a PR firm, and also before watching the video? Terrible performance.
13
If you think this has caused a furor wait until it gets reported how exactly the four to be bumped off were identified. All hell is going to break loose. I mean *if* it comes out. There are too many powerful interests here who will do all they can to make sure that bit of information doesn't come out. So here's a challenge to NYT: Make sure that bit of information comes out.
19
A few years ago, I flew Frontier Airlines and boarded the plane only to find another person in my seat. Yes, the seat was sold twice, even though I had bought my ticket a couple months in advance. I was put off the plane and told to report to Frontier's desk. When I complained loudly, I was threatened with security. ( I was a 57-year-old grandmother then on my way to help my daughter after giving birth.) Frontier said they would get me out in two days.
In another family incident, our 16-year-old son, a minor, was put off a Southwest plane in St. Louis on his way to Houston. No explanation whatsoever. It's time to contact our Senators and Congress members about the airline practice of overbooking.
In another family incident, our 16-year-old son, a minor, was put off a Southwest plane in St. Louis on his way to Houston. No explanation whatsoever. It's time to contact our Senators and Congress members about the airline practice of overbooking.
23
Sent an email to (R) Congressman Carlos Curbelo of Florida to hear his views on this matter. No response so far. Still waiting. Not holding my breath.
United Airlines needs to hire Sean Spicer.
17
"Mr. Munoz, who makes at least $1.2 million a year...."
A re-acommodator-in-chief should not be leading an airline that is already amongst the worst in customer satisfaction.
A re-acommodator-in-chief should not be leading an airline that is already amongst the worst in customer satisfaction.
8
I wonder if it's time to start regulating this industry again? it seems they have gotten a little too arrogant. Four major carriers that handle 80% of the passengers in the USA sounds close enough to a trust to me to call for some sort of regulation .
10
Can't see that happening under current administration.
The right type of corporate culture may exist on high, but its not filtering down. The root cause of this issue lies with the gate crew. United's gate crew are known to be the rudest and most arrogant in the industry. Sadly, many airline employees have used the horror of 9/11 and false claim of in-the-name-of security to justify their hostile behavior. On high the response was immediately wrong. In the trenches you have a bunch of over unionized slackers convincing each other they work too hard. This is Citizen's United come to life, corporate henchmen waging violence on consumers, both physical and economic!
6
American is guilty of these horrors too: I was coming to Albuquerque from Miami- every single plane change had me coming in too late to catch my connection- only reason I made the last ABQ flight was because that too was late. I told the gate guy that American Airlines is inept. He said- wait- I am calling the police! I said "do it young man and not only will I sue AA, but I will also sue you personally, He let me on the plane. Be tough!
1
If you don't show up for a flight, you've already paid for seat. If they then fill it with a waitlisted passenger, they're being paid twice for the same seat.
I fly a lot. Every recent flight has been overbooked. This has got to stop.
I fly a lot. Every recent flight has been overbooked. This has got to stop.
16
I understand that having a crew is essential to running an airline company, but having CUSTOMERS is essential to having ANY COMPANY at all. The first priority is the customer. United can argue that a plane full of passengers would have been affected by the crew's failure to arrive, but that was not the case. They had and have several alternative options available.
Put the crew on a different flight. I realize a direct flight may not have been available at another time that would have gotten them to there plane in time, but they could have arranged for connecting flights. Yes it would have been inconvenient, but that doesn't stop them from doing it to customers.
If they couldn't do connecting flights from their point of origin, United could have bused the crew to a different airport for a direct or connecting flights from there to their destination airport. Again it would be inconvenient, but that goes with United's poor planning in ensuring their crew members were at the necessary airport to do their job.
If of those options failed they also had the option of ........ I know this one will be difficult, but buy a ticket on a different carrier!
Should all of those be impossible then attempt to get an alternate crew. United could offer the substitute crew overtime to take on the last minute flight.
Hey airlines take a page from NetJets, your customers come first not last.
Put the crew on a different flight. I realize a direct flight may not have been available at another time that would have gotten them to there plane in time, but they could have arranged for connecting flights. Yes it would have been inconvenient, but that doesn't stop them from doing it to customers.
If they couldn't do connecting flights from their point of origin, United could have bused the crew to a different airport for a direct or connecting flights from there to their destination airport. Again it would be inconvenient, but that goes with United's poor planning in ensuring their crew members were at the necessary airport to do their job.
If of those options failed they also had the option of ........ I know this one will be difficult, but buy a ticket on a different carrier!
Should all of those be impossible then attempt to get an alternate crew. United could offer the substitute crew overtime to take on the last minute flight.
Hey airlines take a page from NetJets, your customers come first not last.
7
After reading some comments, all, please note that THERE WAS NO OVERBOOKING!! United bumped four paying passengers in order to move employees quickly to Kentucky from where these employees were scheduled to fly. My question: Why were these four in Chicago so close to a time when they had a job in Kentucky? It would have cost United much less than it will now to just have chartered a plane for its employees for the approximately 1.5 hour flight.
12
This was totally disturbing and I think the CEO should be the first to go in this public relations nightmare now. No one should be DRAGGED off a flight unless they are committing a crime or being disruptive in a threatening way.
This whole incident though should be a wake up call for all the major airlines.
American Air: I flew you the other day from Vegas to JFK and I'm only 5ft 3 inches tall. My knees were touching the seat in front of me! The row was way too squished (row 10) to the row 9 (last row of "premium economy". I would rather pay an extra $15 for all coach tickets if the gave us just 5 more inches in legroom. Sitting for 5 hrs on a flight in those conditions is not humane. Southwest and Jet Blue don't do that to their passengers!
UNITED, AMERICAN and even sometimes DELTA need to wake up and stop treating people like cattle.
This whole incident though should be a wake up call for all the major airlines.
American Air: I flew you the other day from Vegas to JFK and I'm only 5ft 3 inches tall. My knees were touching the seat in front of me! The row was way too squished (row 10) to the row 9 (last row of "premium economy". I would rather pay an extra $15 for all coach tickets if the gave us just 5 more inches in legroom. Sitting for 5 hrs on a flight in those conditions is not humane. Southwest and Jet Blue don't do that to their passengers!
UNITED, AMERICAN and even sometimes DELTA need to wake up and stop treating people like cattle.
14
How does a person without any common sense become CEO of a major corporation?
11
Oscar takes full responsibility? Does that mean he will quit voluntarily, or will shareholders have to call the cops to drag him kicking and screaming out of the executive suite?
17
This whole issue is really not about over-booking but rather that the airline had 4 employees who "had to go to " Louisville for United's convenience. They could have been booked on another flight or different airline rather than actually assaulting an existing paid customer. At the least, United could have sat the three other employees in the empty seats of those who agreed to give them up and called up a local employee from the Louisville area to fill the fourth staff need in Louisville. Or, increased the amount of the voucher. Or sat the passenger in first class - no one mentioned anything in regard to that possibility. BUT NEVER ASSAULT a paying customer in full view of an entire plane load of people - that is the worst possible publicity in the world - what were they ever thinking?
16
I understand that there is a fold-down seat in the cockpit that could have been used.
What I am surprised with is that not one passenger got up and took a lead of exhorting everyone to boycott the flight right there and then ? That kind of peaceful protest would have got even the right kind of negative publicity without any harm to anyone. If everyone of the passenger deplaned and they were only left with the 4 crew members would have made bigger headlines and taught airlines to start behaving humanely. They have gotten rid of food, charging for checked bags among others.
Will they be charging for going to the toilet while in air next ?
Will they be charging for going to the toilet while in air next ?
4
If I had been on that flight, I might have fled the plane after observing that chaos for fear that the plane had been taken over by maniacs. Who wants to get trapped in the air with that going on? And of course would have followed up with a hefty lawsuit for causing me such trauma. Will keep this in mind for future reference.
That airline in Ireland was thinking of pay toilets in the sky. Do not give United any ideas.
1
This is a result of the culture the UA conglomerate has cultivated in their organization.
What is the job of the staff? To serve the customer & keep them safe.
But what do they get told they should do? Treat different customers differently based upon their 'grade'.
This takes the form of rampant mistreatment, classification, (de) gradation, uncivilized and dangerous actions of the staff. They are doing the opposite of what they should be doing. They have no morals, no job satisfaction and highly over inflated egos.
The CEO is directly responsible.
What is the job of the staff? To serve the customer & keep them safe.
But what do they get told they should do? Treat different customers differently based upon their 'grade'.
This takes the form of rampant mistreatment, classification, (de) gradation, uncivilized and dangerous actions of the staff. They are doing the opposite of what they should be doing. They have no morals, no job satisfaction and highly over inflated egos.
The CEO is directly responsible.
7
United may as well offer a free Walmart "Dead Bat" salad on for the remaining few customers they have left. No one we know would ever fly United again which is ironic since we grew up with United and their "Fly the Friendly Skies of United". With friends like these in the already contentious and police state aura of just getting on a plane who needs villains?
10
If Munoz doesn't go, the FAA has to take away United Airlines' monopoly contract to handle US markets.
This is the best example in years of how monopolies, guaranteed by the US Government, turn the USA free economy into something more akin to the Soviet Union.
This is the best example in years of how monopolies, guaranteed by the US Government, turn the USA free economy into something more akin to the Soviet Union.
7
Mobster customer service. Munoz is the boss.
5
aggravated battery and unlawful detention
both serious felonies
2
I believe this is called assault and battery.
10
1984: NEWSPEAK.
United’s website says that when the airline cannot find volunteers, it will “deny boarding to passengers in accordance with our written policy on boarding priority.” Ms. McCarthy would not share the written policy.
United’s website says that when the airline cannot find volunteers, it will “deny boarding to passengers in accordance with our written policy on boarding priority.” Ms. McCarthy would not share the written policy.
9
United: The not so friendly skies. Why does the 'over-booking' issue come up? The flight WAS full with paying passengers boarded. There was no over-booking. This man became upset when he had to involuntarily disembark. When he became upset, United staff considered him a threat so they had him forcibly removed.
United staff on scene used very poor judgement. The cop on scene wanted nothing more than to bust heads. If he tried to mediate, he was unsuccessful. He's suspended. During this whole mess, I hope the policies that give immature flight crew an enormous amount of authority over others get challenged and reversed. Staff have become adept at instigating confrontations that result in them invoking their unofficial authority over others including vets.
If this flight crew needed to be at work the next day, why not provide them with your own transportation? Say an employee transport shuttle? This way they can wear their leggings for as long as they want.
United staff on scene used very poor judgement. The cop on scene wanted nothing more than to bust heads. If he tried to mediate, he was unsuccessful. He's suspended. During this whole mess, I hope the policies that give immature flight crew an enormous amount of authority over others get challenged and reversed. Staff have become adept at instigating confrontations that result in them invoking their unofficial authority over others including vets.
If this flight crew needed to be at work the next day, why not provide them with your own transportation? Say an employee transport shuttle? This way they can wear their leggings for as long as they want.
8
Anti-trust regulators take notice. If United still had to compete with Continental, would they feel free to treat customers this way?
The treatment is a cynical calculation about human nature: that people won't speak up for someone who is mistreated, because they benefit from the mistreatment and/or don't want to put themselves in crosshairs. Trump is exploiting the same levers. Let's all watch for this.
The treatment is a cynical calculation about human nature: that people won't speak up for someone who is mistreated, because they benefit from the mistreatment and/or don't want to put themselves in crosshairs. Trump is exploiting the same levers. Let's all watch for this.
5
Doesn't this suggest that late-stage capitalism isn't working?
Why didn't United already have in place the personnel for the Monday morning flight out of Louisville? Because the only goal that now matters is squeezing out every last penny for shareholders as possible, which means unrealistically tight personnel management.
Why didn't United already have in place the personnel for the Monday morning flight out of Louisville? Because the only goal that now matters is squeezing out every last penny for shareholders as possible, which means unrealistically tight personnel management.
10
My Grandfather, a United Airlines pilot in the 1940's-1970's I am SURE is rolling over in his grave. Time for United to sink or step up to a new and better way of doing business. What an embarrassment to the industry.
7
The event was a natural extension of a process that began innocently years ago when the airlines were struggling to make profits let alone costs. So they kept tightening up to maximize revenue per passenger, but at some point they crossed a line. It was like the frog that is put in cold water that is set to boil so he doesn't get what's happening to him. As I look back on my last few years of domestic and international flying I realize that I have been the frog. Airplanes are overcrowded and uncomfortable. Service and civility is declining. Only natural that passengers would eventually be subject beatings. But I hope we've all been slapped in the face enough to come back to reality. We need more room to sit, and we need not to pay outrageous extra fees for basic good service. And the reservation change fees need to be reduced to actual cost. And did I mention that we need more room to sit. If I didn't, let me state it now: we need more room to sit.
11
I am referring to Mr. Munoz' snide remark about Emirates not being a 'real' airline. Because they don't get down and dirty when removing paying customers by beating them up? Instead of bloodying their paying customers, why doesn't United try to get within site of Emirates ranking as the best airline of 2017? That would be a welcome change, though probably less likely than global cooling.
7
Lucky he wasn't black: he would have been shot
18
In this Donald Trump era, anything goes, and might is right. If people don't comply or agree, attack them, discredit them, and forcibly remove them. Didn't Trump incite supporters to remove hecklers at one of his rallies?
Those in power do not respect others, and as long as they can make money, they can trample on anyone. Isn't this a common attitude, especially under the current Trump administration?
It is the same attitude exhibited by Spicer, and Trump, and his cohorts. The airline overbooks, and it is the passenger's fault for not volunteering, and they pick the lowest paying, or one who is not a frequent flyer, the single traveler, the one without connecting flights registered on their other flights.
Then they apologize only when the public forces them to. The different statements by Munoz. United we stand is a must, against this airline, and against those with same attitude, like the Trump administration.
Communicator of the Year by PR Week was funny.
Those in power do not respect others, and as long as they can make money, they can trample on anyone. Isn't this a common attitude, especially under the current Trump administration?
It is the same attitude exhibited by Spicer, and Trump, and his cohorts. The airline overbooks, and it is the passenger's fault for not volunteering, and they pick the lowest paying, or one who is not a frequent flyer, the single traveler, the one without connecting flights registered on their other flights.
Then they apologize only when the public forces them to. The different statements by Munoz. United we stand is a must, against this airline, and against those with same attitude, like the Trump administration.
Communicator of the Year by PR Week was funny.
8
Right. Because no airline passenger was ever bumped while Obama was President.
It always Trump's fault. Isn't that right, precious snowflake?
It always Trump's fault. Isn't that right, precious snowflake?
Mookie, at least not like this. Trump has unfortunately ignited a culture of violence that us making things worse.
United and many airlines knowingly and intentionally do this- how can they justify intentionally upsetting their paying passengers' travel plans? What other industry is allowed this type of "falsehood"- pay for a trip and then forced off the plane? They would rather make more money (overbook flights), inconvenience paying passengers (and not their own crew) and won't "own up" until the PR nightmare and hysteria have unleashed from the video footage. While this incident was particularly egregious, United isn't the only airline culpable for poor practices such as these. It has become the industry standard. All of us who fly commercial airlines are vulnerable to these fundamentally greed-driven rules! Wasn't United's by-line "we are what the friendly skies are all about"?
5
Yes, there are several legitimate issues with the way this was handled, but let's look at the root of the problem: the overbooking and generally poor planning of UA and of airlines across the industry. Air travel has been deplorable for years now while the industry nickel and dimes customers for everything that used to be included gratis with your plane ticket. When gas prices fell very low a couple of years ago, BTW, I didn't notice any change to the cost of my air travel to reflect the cheaper gas prices. Not to mention the cramped seating so that only the financially well-off who can afford first or business class receive comfortable travel. I don't understand the need to overbook flights since airlines get the money whether people show up or not. If it's so they can "double-sell" the seat for a no-show, well, OK, more corporate greed I guess. Either stop overbooking or "re-accommodate" the policy/practice to reduce incidents like this. Or perhaps not overbook on final flights of the night. I'm sorry but most people don't have the luxury of being able to change their travel plans at the last minute no matter how much of an incentive is offered. Everyone's time and schedule is important and valuable to them. People generally buy a plane ticket for a specific time/date because they NEED to travel at said specific time/date. In what other industry are they allowed to take back a service they've sold to you? Insane. Bring back the rail industry and make high-speed trains!
9
"Bring back the rail industry and make high-speed trains!"
And just what will prevent overbooking on high-speed trains as well?
And just what will prevent overbooking on high-speed trains as well?
1
The Italians overbook their sleeper car trains all the time--not the solution.Stop overbookung period.
3
United was always my go-to airline, literally for decades. Now I use them internationally, and domestically when it is truly advantageous to me. What I have noticed is this horrendous categorization of customers as either elite, or, close to cattle. When several flights were cancelled for weather in one experience I had, whole planeloads of customers, including the elderly, were standing in line for hours at a time, while anyone with elite status just moseyed up to the head of the line and were cared for immediately. What United blindly and crassly did this week, was a reflection of what seems to be a movement toward the general militarization and de-democratization of our entire cultural body politic. And no, the airlines should not have that much power to break a contract with its customers.
7
We will no longer fly United. Period. Both legging and dragging reveal a deep, systemic problem that requires much, much more than an apology. Thankfully, this is a simple opportunity to see the result of corporate power and greed and the new world order that seeks to place everyone who is not at the wealthy elite table into a new melting pot of seething masses that will not only be kept ignorant for easier manipulation, but will also be kept in poverty with no real opportunities. This is a perfect example of the middle-upper class' descent.
Fight back. When money is involved, change will not occur without consequence. Not flying United is a contribution to that consequence. Would that so much else that ails our Nation and Earth could be communicated so simply.
Fight back. When money is involved, change will not occur without consequence. Not flying United is a contribution to that consequence. Would that so much else that ails our Nation and Earth could be communicated so simply.
7
What good are 800$ in vouchers from an airline you don't want to fly on ever again because they are yanking you from your seat?
8
Somebody would have voluntarily gotten off for the right price + hotel room
8
So...they "overbooked' the plane. Huh? Doesn't their computer system know how many seats are on that particular plane? Needed four more to get a crew to another airport/flight? Couldn't they have used a small commuter plane for that purpose or worst case scenario, that other plane will have to have a delayed departure. You can't take people off an existing flight after they've been seated. How bout this - keep a half dozen seats empty for such a contingency - deal with the relatively tiny loss of fares.
6
I agree. And they should not sell you a seat unless they can guarantee it. Ridiculous!
4
Dear Editor,
I don't think I have anything novel to offer - readers have appropriately dissected this issue and who was wrong and why?
All I'd offer is the old adage that reminds us to ask ourselves, "Will my response to this situation pass the newspaper test?". This cuts both ways -
for Dr. Dao and for United Airlines (Munoz). They both failed in answering that question correctly. So sad.
We answer that question time and again in our lives; we temper our reactions to situations & chose more peaceful paths to illustrate to our children and to our fellow citizens that civility still trumps everything else. I have seen many passengers voluntarily give up good window/aisle seats to let families sit together. Often you see airline staff bewildered at what pains folks are willing to endure to let fellow travelers have more rewarding experiences. This flies in the face to image-fearing baggage-fee-bilking feet-dragging doing-you-favors-by-handing-you-peanuts airline executives. I think the power of social media is being unleashed and driving results. Folks have no tolerance for bad behavior - again, on either side - and they are putting their money where they mouth is. If this is the ultimate manifestation of capitalism, then I'm loving it (thanks McDs)!
I don't think I have anything novel to offer - readers have appropriately dissected this issue and who was wrong and why?
All I'd offer is the old adage that reminds us to ask ourselves, "Will my response to this situation pass the newspaper test?". This cuts both ways -
for Dr. Dao and for United Airlines (Munoz). They both failed in answering that question correctly. So sad.
We answer that question time and again in our lives; we temper our reactions to situations & chose more peaceful paths to illustrate to our children and to our fellow citizens that civility still trumps everything else. I have seen many passengers voluntarily give up good window/aisle seats to let families sit together. Often you see airline staff bewildered at what pains folks are willing to endure to let fellow travelers have more rewarding experiences. This flies in the face to image-fearing baggage-fee-bilking feet-dragging doing-you-favors-by-handing-you-peanuts airline executives. I think the power of social media is being unleashed and driving results. Folks have no tolerance for bad behavior - again, on either side - and they are putting their money where they mouth is. If this is the ultimate manifestation of capitalism, then I'm loving it (thanks McDs)!
4
The incident itself was absolutely appalling. The fact that nobody in the whole chain of events hit the pause button, and asked, "Hang on guys. We're going to physically drag a paying customers off a flight? This is NOT a good idea." (For countless reasons - human decency, common sense - not to mention dozens of passengers holding video cameras/phones in their hands)
But what's even MORE bothersome in my view is Munoz's responses. He's supposed to be the leader, who can step back, and offer a rational view on all of this. His complete ineptitude in this regard should lead to his immediate dismissal. That is the only move that would help to slowly restore any customer confidence.
Munoz must resign.
But what's even MORE bothersome in my view is Munoz's responses. He's supposed to be the leader, who can step back, and offer a rational view on all of this. His complete ineptitude in this regard should lead to his immediate dismissal. That is the only move that would help to slowly restore any customer confidence.
Munoz must resign.
16
Dr. David Dao obviously didn't put on his seat belt.
3
He would be split in half and United and Rudolf and Chicago authorities would all then blame Dao for putting the seat belt and dying the death in half.
2
“No one should ever be mistreated this way,” Oscar Munoz, the company’s chief executive, said in a statement.
Don't worry, there are plenty of other ways to mistreat us when fly the friendly skies.
Don't worry, there are plenty of other ways to mistreat us when fly the friendly skies.
14
United's spokesperson said "If the crew members had not been allowed to board, Ms. McCarthy said, the Monday morning flight would have been canceled." However, United's corporate offices are located in in the Chicago area. That means that their corporate jet (or jets) are based there. Therefore, they had the option of flying that crew to Louisville on a corporate jet. Additionally, it is only a five hour drive from Chicago to Louisville. Either way, they would not have had to cancel the Monday morning flight. How many lies are they going to tell?
21
Maybe people need to start reading the contracts they enter into.
2
Its easy to project anger at the airlines (any airline). What United did was foolish but to those making this man a "hero" is nonsense. First he played the "race card" by claiming he was being targeted for being Chinese. That was simply untrue. The airlines uses a random program where race plays a zero part; how frequently you fly United is what United cares about.
This man was crying like a baby saying "just kill me". He is no hero. If he had simply walked off the plane -like the other three passengers - he would not have been dragged off the plane. Now this "child" is likely to get a huge financial reward for acting childish and out of control.
This man was crying like a baby saying "just kill me". He is no hero. If he had simply walked off the plane -like the other three passengers - he would not have been dragged off the plane. Now this "child" is likely to get a huge financial reward for acting childish and out of control.
3
This passenger was not playing the race card. You are. You have no idea what the airlines' algorithms are for selecting involuntary ejection of passengers from a flight. You are the one projecting anger onto this passenger. You have no idea what you would do in a situation like that. You are the one that displays childlike ignorance and lack of control in your critical thinking.
9
Live and learn I learned in the USA. Now the passenger who paid for a service has to relinquish his right to a company who did not do its work properly and took to the air after physically and morally injuring him calling him belligerent is beyond my capacity of comprehension, It did not matter that he has to take care of patients which apparently did not face the airline employees much less the CEO whom later on realize that no human being should be treated that way but the damage was done in more than one way.
2
Being such a big crybaby after being assaulted and beaten and bloodied by United may he get millions in settlements. Race had nothing to do with it.
1
Mistreated? Maybe in Chicago. In most places this looks like criminal assault. Oh to be on that jury.
13
I wouldn't give him anything. That noise he made was pitiful.
Some posted that UA has a right to revoke seats. But where does it say that it is legal to PHYSICALLY ASSAULT innocent law abiding people?? United Air president Munoz who makes a $53 million salary thinks its fine (though now he is reversing course and saying sorry for PR reasons) and the crew were totally involved (no crew member stopped the violence and then other UA crew members got on the plane afterwards to knowingly take the seat of a VIOLENTLY ejected passenger) . They have no conscience and don't care about the people who PAY and support their livelihoods. These are arrogant UA people with NO morals who should be fired and who should not represent America in the skies.
13
Oscar Munoz should be fired.
Not only were his comments irresponsible, but he has dramatically failed a test of leadership. Clearly United Airlines is a misdirected company, and has now lost the trust of the American people. In many ways, this is analogous to the Wells Fargo mess, and the failed leadership of that bank. I will never bank with Wells Fargo, and i will do everything that I can to avoid flying with United Airlines and their subsidiaries.
While corporations have the legal status as "people", they are repeatedly showing us their inhumanity.
These actions were inappropriate, disgusting, and unforgivable.
Shame on you United Airlines!
Not only were his comments irresponsible, but he has dramatically failed a test of leadership. Clearly United Airlines is a misdirected company, and has now lost the trust of the American people. In many ways, this is analogous to the Wells Fargo mess, and the failed leadership of that bank. I will never bank with Wells Fargo, and i will do everything that I can to avoid flying with United Airlines and their subsidiaries.
While corporations have the legal status as "people", they are repeatedly showing us their inhumanity.
These actions were inappropriate, disgusting, and unforgivable.
Shame on you United Airlines!
Here is what CEO Munoz might of said: "What United did was in keeping with all laws, procedures and policies and was consistent with Federal Air Regulations. That said, what United did was really stupid. When the existing laws, procedures, etc lead to stupid acts, it means those laws, etc are wrong. I plan to do all in my power to get them fixed."
5
Get Facts Straight- The flight was FULL, Not overbooked in this situation.
The real reason is that United failed to accommodate their flight crew placement needs and a UA manager FAILED to plan for travel of the four flight crew. IMO that manager needs to be FIRED and the four crew members disciplined or terminated for showing up to work 'late' -were they drinking in the bar until gate-time knowing they would displace passengers? or not care??
This is not an overbooking problem, it is a crew planning and logistics problem with UA and perhaps likely all US airlines in general. THAT is where the problem lay.
Oh, and police should not be used as the Gestapo on behalf of airlines against a normal, innocent passenger already seated. FIRE the 'officer' shown doing the dragging -he is a thug and a danger to the public.
We need an FAA regulation stating passengers already boarded and seated are never subject to random 're-accomodation' or removal. (I'm sure Trump can find two other regs. to toss in order to set in place this important one.)
Step Down Oscar, you have failed.
The real reason is that United failed to accommodate their flight crew placement needs and a UA manager FAILED to plan for travel of the four flight crew. IMO that manager needs to be FIRED and the four crew members disciplined or terminated for showing up to work 'late' -were they drinking in the bar until gate-time knowing they would displace passengers? or not care??
This is not an overbooking problem, it is a crew planning and logistics problem with UA and perhaps likely all US airlines in general. THAT is where the problem lay.
Oh, and police should not be used as the Gestapo on behalf of airlines against a normal, innocent passenger already seated. FIRE the 'officer' shown doing the dragging -he is a thug and a danger to the public.
We need an FAA regulation stating passengers already boarded and seated are never subject to random 're-accomodation' or removal. (I'm sure Trump can find two other regs. to toss in order to set in place this important one.)
Step Down Oscar, you have failed.
20
Well said!
1
"police should not be used as the Gestapo on behalf of airlines against a normal, innocent passenger already seated. FIRE the 'officer' shown doing the dragging -he is a thug and a danger to the public."
This government thug should not only loose his job and pension but also spend the rest of his life rotting away in jail.
This government thug should not only loose his job and pension but also spend the rest of his life rotting away in jail.
1
Free Flights for Life.
That's the very least United could do for this poor unfortunate man, and a reasonable starting-place for an apology.
Oh, and sack that cop. Thug, shouldn't be trusted with a gun. Can't differentiate between a criminal and a law-abiding citizen.
That's the very least United could do for this poor unfortunate man, and a reasonable starting-place for an apology.
Oh, and sack that cop. Thug, shouldn't be trusted with a gun. Can't differentiate between a criminal and a law-abiding citizen.
14
United used to be my airlines of choice, but the experience with almost all domestic carriers is such a turnoff that it hardly matters. United's particular problem is that it is so greedy that it insists on overbooking, then has to toss people off or provide incentives to not even board one's scheduled flight. This case shows how lost the management is -- it didn't have a protocol before getting passengers on, so it overstuffed the cabin, then had to pull someone off. As profits have gone up, the whole range of services has gone down. I was upgraded to first on a long flight last year. Lunch in first class was a microwaved hamburger. The bottom bun was literally fused to the plate and inedible. And some people paid full first class fare for that. None of the carriers understand that if customers came first, profits wouldn't have to be squeezed out of every possible niche. I have been waiting for the day when United advises that the cost of your ticket gets you onto the plane, then you have to pay separately for a seat.
11
Why on earth didn't United simply offer more money to any four passengers who would willingly leave the plane? If this is a market economy, at some point, the airline would have discovered the price they should pay to disrupt a passenger's plans.
8
They didn't offer any money in the first place. Vouchers for an arbitrarily priced service by the issuer of the voucher are not money.
5
This is the world we live in, Corporations and Cops victimizing us all. SAD.
8
The problem stems from overbooking, and is exacerbated by an attitude since 9/11 that looks on passengers with contempt at best and as potential terrorists at worst. Flying has become an ordeal even when all goes well. An apology and a band-aid isn't going to change that. There need to be laws in place to prevent airlines from overbooking, which is simply fraud.
12
I have flown United many times before the merger with Continental, out of the major US airlines, they were consistently the worst, rude gate agents, rude flight attendants and if you saw the pilot at the end of the flight, there was never a "thank you," or anything similar for flying on their planes, not that it really matters if you get to your destination safely, but still worth noting and I think probably representative of a poor customer service culture in general... I can only imagine that with the Continental merger this can only have gotten worse... I've certainly never seen an industry being allowed to turn in to an oligopoly and actually improving their product...
7
Corporate Insensitivity has finally hit a nerve with American Citizens. We have been demoted to second class Citizens by the Republican Court and Congress. The corporation with absolutely No Rights under the Constitution is allowed endless perks with Laws written just for "their" benefit. If the is "personhood", why do they escape personal income tax in addition to whatever business taxes seem fair for the special treatment?
We have no control over the Republican Congress and real Democrats need to rally those that identify as Conservatives to overthrow a party that works solely for the robotic corporate master. What would Jesus do?
We could all give up our seats, but We can not give up Our Country!
We have no control over the Republican Congress and real Democrats need to rally those that identify as Conservatives to overthrow a party that works solely for the robotic corporate master. What would Jesus do?
We could all give up our seats, but We can not give up Our Country!
7
The Airline Deregulation Act of 1978 was passed during DEMOCRAT Jimmy Carter's term and, to the best of my knowledge, airline passengers were mistreated and bumped during the DEMOCRAT Obama administration.
But, by all means, blame the Republican Congress for all of this.
The bleating of DEMOCRAT snowflakes is really getting tiresome.
But, by all means, blame the Republican Congress for all of this.
The bleating of DEMOCRAT snowflakes is really getting tiresome.
Brutish capitalism disguised as customer service.
9
I'm a Million Mile Flyer with United. Right now I have 3 long distance flights booked with them--one an international flight. What I saw on the video and what I heard initially from Mr Munoz has sickened me. If I could afford it, I would cancel those 3 flights and fly the "friendly skies" with an airline that does not abuse its passengers. And, if another airline would allow me to transfer my Million Mile status and accumulated air miles, I would transfer my loyalty to it. If United Airlines wants to survive it had better do something for everyone of its customers, especially its frequent flyers, to win back loyalty. It also should handsomely compensate Dr. Dao's patients as well as Dr. Dao for the damage it has caused them..
Understood that 4 United crew members needed to fly. So you randomly start targeting Passengers to make room for United staff? This makes no sense.
As a paying passenger, this is NOT my problem that crew members have to fly.
United has a whole team working on logistics and operations. This is a United problem made worse by an incompetent CEO who barks before he thinks.
As a paying passenger, this is NOT my problem that crew members have to fly.
United has a whole team working on logistics and operations. This is a United problem made worse by an incompetent CEO who barks before he thinks.
13
UA is apologizing the way they should have within the first hour of the incident. This CEO is clueless. He should be fired right away. People will not take this Airline until this goofy CEO is there. He can't tell the difference between humans and cargo.
First he was staunchly standing behind his staff now he has taken a 180 degree turn. This is the kind of executives who bring down the whole organization with just one blunder.
First he was staunchly standing behind his staff now he has taken a 180 degree turn. This is the kind of executives who bring down the whole organization with just one blunder.
10
"When Momma Parks sat down, the whole world stood up". Not really saying these are comparable events and in any case Momma Parks didn't get roughened up as Dao did. But curiously one is reminded of the ballad. Why are SO many people SO upset by this one incident? Is it because it's been So rough for SO long for SO many of us? All of a sudden, each and everyone of us seems to remember a not so positive experience to tell...
10
Perfect analogy.
2
It could have been worse for United. They could have been in mid-flight.
DD
Manhattan
DD
Manhattan
4
"Grandpa? Tell us again about the good old days when the only thing that scared people about flying was the plane crashing."
11
Grandpa says the train was more fun.
5
United Airlines was perfectly within its rights to revoke access to its flight with no prior notice and enlist publicly paid employees to physically assault a customer who did not comply with the arbitrary choices of private airline employees. That specific individuals suffered in this event is unfortunate; a larger problem is that the public has no recourse.
The dominant pressures on the evolution of airline regulation have been the industry itself, with little or no representation of consumer interests. The typical airline contract for carriage reads as a manifest of airline prerogative, and provides little protection or even consideration of passenger rights. For example, the maximum amount that an airline could be required to pay a passenger for involuntarily denying carriage is $1,350. There is no barrier to an airline offering any higher amount, and United did not even match this regulated maximum before turning to physical assault on a passenger.
The right to withhold our patronage in protest is impractical, as there are now so few airlines that United, and the other 3 major airlines, are near monopolies. Air routes are parceled such that in most cases there is little or no meaningful alternative to a given carrier, so the vast majority of United's business remains intact, and unassailable.
Perhaps we might take this as an example of the relief from "job killing regulation" that our elected officials are busily delivering to us. Satisfied?
The dominant pressures on the evolution of airline regulation have been the industry itself, with little or no representation of consumer interests. The typical airline contract for carriage reads as a manifest of airline prerogative, and provides little protection or even consideration of passenger rights. For example, the maximum amount that an airline could be required to pay a passenger for involuntarily denying carriage is $1,350. There is no barrier to an airline offering any higher amount, and United did not even match this regulated maximum before turning to physical assault on a passenger.
The right to withhold our patronage in protest is impractical, as there are now so few airlines that United, and the other 3 major airlines, are near monopolies. Air routes are parceled such that in most cases there is little or no meaningful alternative to a given carrier, so the vast majority of United's business remains intact, and unassailable.
Perhaps we might take this as an example of the relief from "job killing regulation" that our elected officials are busily delivering to us. Satisfied?
22
This is not about rights! This is about physical assault of a paid customer! That the guys in badges could drag another human being out with everyone looking, that the United crew stood there watching... If the United crew manager had selected "random" customers to be bumped off, that could be you on the floor, on your next flight!
2
The man dragged from the plane is an AMERICAN FOLK HERO. He deserves cult status. Without him standing up to UA and letting them show their true colors, we wouldn't be having this conversation. If he had voluntarily left and lodged a complaint later to UA or posted to Twitter, etc., then UA airlines' beliefs and processes would not have been exposed! I am sorry for the degradation and assault he experienced, it was inexcusable, but I thank him for his stance and the service he has done for all travelers by instigating this discussion and this takedown of UA. (UA is the worst!) Some say he should have complied, as many passengers are inconvenienced in similar ways every day. But that's the point! He peacefully protested the poor treatment of millions of passengers! I say "Thank you!"
Yes, the plane is UA's property and some say you always have to exit someone else's property when asked. But for example, I lease a house to a tenant (tenant=customer, I=service provider, and they occupy my property), but I can't randomly decide to expel my tenant one evening because I want to use the house for something else and then resort to physical force when the tenant doesn't leave. If you have a civil dispute with someone, file a legal claim, don't assault them! At what point will airlines respect the contract they've entered into with customers? Fine, maybe airlines need to reserve the right to eject passengers, but airlines have many other options before assault.
Yes, the plane is UA's property and some say you always have to exit someone else's property when asked. But for example, I lease a house to a tenant (tenant=customer, I=service provider, and they occupy my property), but I can't randomly decide to expel my tenant one evening because I want to use the house for something else and then resort to physical force when the tenant doesn't leave. If you have a civil dispute with someone, file a legal claim, don't assault them! At what point will airlines respect the contract they've entered into with customers? Fine, maybe airlines need to reserve the right to eject passengers, but airlines have many other options before assault.
29
And he was 69 years old! They picked a 69 year old man to attack, and he stood up to them.
15
This was a truly outrageous and incident. Hard to believe that any of the people involved could have thought this was the right approach or response under the circumstances by any stretch of the imagination.
But, I'm annoyed by the claims of racial discrimination, which I think is discrediting somewhat all of the legitimate outrage over this incident. What evidence is there that Dr. Dao was targeted because he is Asian?
Not everything bad that happens to a person who is a minority is based on discrimination. Sometimes it is just a bad thing that happened. To a person. Who just happened to be a member of a minority (like myself).
Yes, discrimination is alive and well, unfortunately. But, reflexive but otherwise baseless claims of discrimination are in fact hurting the cause because they have the effect of making the public discount the next legitimate claim of discrimination that comes along.
But, I'm annoyed by the claims of racial discrimination, which I think is discrediting somewhat all of the legitimate outrage over this incident. What evidence is there that Dr. Dao was targeted because he is Asian?
Not everything bad that happens to a person who is a minority is based on discrimination. Sometimes it is just a bad thing that happened. To a person. Who just happened to be a member of a minority (like myself).
Yes, discrimination is alive and well, unfortunately. But, reflexive but otherwise baseless claims of discrimination are in fact hurting the cause because they have the effect of making the public discount the next legitimate claim of discrimination that comes along.
5
I have flown twice on commercial flights, One experience was quite close to being in Hell. The latest flying event reported does absolutely nothing to inspire me to fly again. I was appalled that a customer should be manhandled in such a brutish way to maximize profits.
13
If nothing else, I think this episode has shown a spotlight on how we as American consumers have become so accustomed to mediocrity, incivility and unchecked abuse from those in positions of authority. We are now WOKE. Next time we see this sort of thing happening to an innocent person, on a plane or otherwise, it is our collective obligation to resist. I was not on the plane, but what I found quite disturbing was the nonchalance and seeming indifference of the other passengers while Dr. Dao was getting the daylights knocked out of him. The bully doing this to him should have been restrained and a human wall of protection should have been formed around Dr. Dao. Since our leaders have failed us by allowing the U.S. airline industry to become a monopoly along with airline-friendly regulations, we have no choice but to defend ourselves. Resist, resist and then resist some more!
17
A couple of other passengers were verbally protesting Dr. Dao's treatment. But if I'm confronted with law enforcement (I assume they were armed), I would be very fearful of challenging them. Please, some common sense.
6
At least there is one advantage to being an authoritarian dictatorship. China can cancel United's permission to operate in China and auction their former concession to other airlines. Too bad the US can react that way when businessmen turn into thugs.
8
In China the cop who dragged the doctor off the plane, especially a plane full of foreign tourists, might well have been executed on the spot for disgracing the government.
1
US mega airlines have been squeezing their customers for so long that nobody realizes that customer satisfaction may be an air carriers objective. Some international carriers have not forgotten that passenger satisfaction is important to them. After all, there are choices in international travel that do not exist in most US routes.
United has been throwing insulting policies at the wall for so long, it had forgotten that it was possible to go too far. When presented with a crisis, its mentality was to protect itself and blame the customer. Not the right thing to do but consistent with its mentality.
Munoz should be fired and United should undertake a program to rehumanize itself.
United has been throwing insulting policies at the wall for so long, it had forgotten that it was possible to go too far. When presented with a crisis, its mentality was to protect itself and blame the customer. Not the right thing to do but consistent with its mentality.
Munoz should be fired and United should undertake a program to rehumanize itself.
They would have to pry me out of my seat with the Jaws of Life. Reprehensible.
12
This gives new meaning to the euphemism 'deplaning'. I suppose with the additional groping and fondling by the TSA before boarding, charges for
every conceivable part of the air travel 'experience' ,it proves H.L. Mencken's
contention that ''The American public know what they want; and they deserve to
get it; good and hard''.
every conceivable part of the air travel 'experience' ,it proves H.L. Mencken's
contention that ''The American public know what they want; and they deserve to
get it; good and hard''.
2
United stinks and so do most of the other "American" airlines.
Taxpayers are always bailing out this industry.
It's long over due time for public/private industry partnerships.
The Aussies and the Kiwis do it and they have some of the best airlines in the world.
Collusion amongst America carriers is rampant. Customer service is pathetic.
The comfort of most airlines is just disgusting. The food is putrid.
Need I say more.
Taxpayers are always bailing out this industry.
It's long over due time for public/private industry partnerships.
The Aussies and the Kiwis do it and they have some of the best airlines in the world.
Collusion amongst America carriers is rampant. Customer service is pathetic.
The comfort of most airlines is just disgusting. The food is putrid.
Need I say more.
13
A couple of questions regarding Mr. Munoz. Who is this jerk and how did he become a chief executive?
14
"If the crew members had not been allowed to board, Ms. McCarthy said, the Monday morning flight would have been canceled."
How is it possible for an airline to not know that it needed to move what appears to be the only four people in the entire world who could fly that plane before they boarded the paying passengers?
How is it possible for an airline to not know that it needed to move what appears to be the only four people in the entire world who could fly that plane before they boarded the paying passengers?
22
My friend is a flight attendant for another airline. Her response: If a crew member had made an announcement over the PA stating, "this plane is not going anywhere until the gentleman in seat 55X deplanes in response to the airline's request that he do so immediately, thank you very much", the mob mentality of the passengers would not have been sympathy for this man as much as utter scorn because their travel plans were now at his mercy. Although there is plenty ugliness to go around United Airlines, (ALL airlines should be taking notice) the police, etc, this is about how we treat each other and how one small difference would have turned this crowd into "Lord of the Skies".
5
They tried that and it didn't work.
3
Keep in mind, this is the airline that devastated shareholders and employees when it bankrupted itself in 2002 - defaulted on its employee pension plan, wiping out all its employees who were forced to hold company shares. Before Munoz, there was CEO Smisek, who had to resign as a result of the Port Authority bribery scandal. This is a scandal ridden company.....
16
Here's an idea: If someone buys a ticket for a flight, and they don't show up, they lose the ticket and the money they used to pay for it. That's how it works in any industry. If you buy a concert ticket and don't go, you can't book another concert. If you buy an airline ticket and don't show up, you should not be able to simply transfer it to another flight. This way, airlines don't lose money on "unused" seats and the need to overbook will be eliminated.
4
I, for one, do not think taking more away from customers and citizens wing more money at companies is the way to solve this. Funny how in some other countries, and on their airlines, one is entitled to one free flight change on regular, boring economy fairs. There is no reason airlines can't provide excellent customer service and realize that people's plans change. Instead, they are busy squeezing us, with constantly shifting prices and horrible conditions.
1
Right. But tickets are already virtually unrefundable. You get a tiny fraction back for what you paid, if you are forced to cancel a flight. So what they are doing is double-dipping - selling more tickets than they have seats for, and pocketing all the money for seats they have AND seats they don't have, in hopes that some folks don't show up but they'll have their money anyway. Should be regarded as fraudulent and I don't know why it isn't.
2
If you pay for a ticket, you have a right to be on that plane. We need to put an end to the deliberate overbooking of flights. A passenger cannot make plans while they remain uncertain about whether they'll arrive at their destination, as planned / as agreed / as paid.
Over the last several years - here in the US, especially - it seems that, generally, those who have been given power to enforce a rule or law have developed shorter and shorter fuses that quickly trip to rage and unfettered cruelty against others. Having this authority seems to have become an expression of how people, quietly, feel these days. A feeling of having been diminished and not in control where its outlet, for some, has become this expressed rage and cruelty. Corporate and governing interests look to squeeze the last dime and behavioral quirk out of its consumers and constituents / squeezing them to a predictable middle that can be exploited and easily managed/manipulated. The more narrowly defined the predictable middle becomes, the greater the magnitude of the underlying rage and cruelty ready to be expressed against each other / the greater number of people involuntarily led astray to do as much. Soon, lost in the walls of a prison and even death will be "the" places to escape for more people than imaginable, today. We need to step back and rethink what corporate and governing interests are for / who should be serving who before it is too late.
We cannot sustain what we're expected to be, today.
Over the last several years - here in the US, especially - it seems that, generally, those who have been given power to enforce a rule or law have developed shorter and shorter fuses that quickly trip to rage and unfettered cruelty against others. Having this authority seems to have become an expression of how people, quietly, feel these days. A feeling of having been diminished and not in control where its outlet, for some, has become this expressed rage and cruelty. Corporate and governing interests look to squeeze the last dime and behavioral quirk out of its consumers and constituents / squeezing them to a predictable middle that can be exploited and easily managed/manipulated. The more narrowly defined the predictable middle becomes, the greater the magnitude of the underlying rage and cruelty ready to be expressed against each other / the greater number of people involuntarily led astray to do as much. Soon, lost in the walls of a prison and even death will be "the" places to escape for more people than imaginable, today. We need to step back and rethink what corporate and governing interests are for / who should be serving who before it is too late.
We cannot sustain what we're expected to be, today.
8
I was wondering how hard it would have been for United to send its 4 employees on another airline from Chicago to Louisville on a Sunday evening.
Turns out there are 5 other flights those 4 United employees could have been on - if United had wanted to pay for their tickets. Delta had three Sunday evening flights, and American had two.
Or, if United couldn't stomach paying one of its competitors, it could have put its 4 employees on the Greyhound bus at 3:15 PM for Louisville.
The clear message from this incident is that United wants to avoid paying the price of using any other carrier to transport its employees. The real price instead was paid by a United passenger.
Turns out there are 5 other flights those 4 United employees could have been on - if United had wanted to pay for their tickets. Delta had three Sunday evening flights, and American had two.
Or, if United couldn't stomach paying one of its competitors, it could have put its 4 employees on the Greyhound bus at 3:15 PM for Louisville.
The clear message from this incident is that United wants to avoid paying the price of using any other carrier to transport its employees. The real price instead was paid by a United passenger.
17
Our Government no longer protects "We the People". It's in the business of protecting Corporations and their profits. The abuse of this passenger by Delta and it's Agents is the result.
7
you cant even get the airline right, art
3
Yeah I see that. Point still valid.
I have been asked at the boarding gate to volunteer for some type of discount or whatever, and I've heard of flying standby, but I can't see how they could possibly give boarding passes to too many people. There are usually two staff members checking tickets and IDs as you board.
4
The United Express crew members showed up after the passengers had already boarded the airplane
"Instead, Megan McCarthy, a spokeswoman for United, said the flight was full and then crew members, who were scheduled to operate a flight Monday morning from Louisville to Newark, N.J., needed seats on the plane. If the crew members had not been allowed to board, Ms. McCarthy said, the Monday morning flight would have been canceled."
Not making allowance for its own flight crew's seats is simply managerial incompetence, and makes United look even worse. The company president ought to be fired for allowing such a circumstance to come up.
Not making allowance for its own flight crew's seats is simply managerial incompetence, and makes United look even worse. The company president ought to be fired for allowing such a circumstance to come up.
15
This is a basic issue of values, ethics, and human respect. Some businesses apparently don't understand "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." Consumers may not change their behavior over this (what choice is there?), but political support for re-regulating these public services is going to grow if the management doesn't change their values and principles.
4
Looks like this incident may solve United's problem with overbooked flights.
I wish people would stop saying the plane was overbooked. It was not. They wanted 4 seats for their employees, something they could have predicted and done something else about. Oh, and what about the guys who won't sit next to women? Do they get treated like this? United wouldn't dare.
9
United blew that one, no doubt, and they deserve to get ripped a new one! But even worse, how come not a single person from the flight crew, to include the four that had to be accommodated, did not see the absurdity of the situation and said - "Wait, there has to be a better way to handle this.." And these are the people whom passengers entrust their lives to when flying!?
8
Somebody probably already commented on this, but here is what UA should have done in the first place after realizing there were not enough volunteers:
Up the ante indefinitely. Someone would have eventually bitten.
Hire a van to take the UA employees to Louisville (4 hours /-).
Send them on another airline and pay full fare
Train their employees to use common sense.
Approximate total cost: $5k
Actual cost as of today: unknown but probably in the billions, counting stock depreciation and lost customers.
This is corporate culture gone berserk. And now we have a businessman in the White House.
Up the ante indefinitely. Someone would have eventually bitten.
Hire a van to take the UA employees to Louisville (4 hours /-).
Send them on another airline and pay full fare
Train their employees to use common sense.
Approximate total cost: $5k
Actual cost as of today: unknown but probably in the billions, counting stock depreciation and lost customers.
This is corporate culture gone berserk. And now we have a businessman in the White House.
Too late.
2
Doctor David Dao had every human right to have been" belligerent and uncooperative" while he was the victim of "re-accommodating" and "mistreatment" by United Against Humanity Airlines.
What is so really depressing and despairing is that beyond a few fellow passengers using their phones to record the incident along with some muted verbal protests that not one other passenger rose to stand with to protect Dr. Dao and be their brother's keeper. Instead they behaved like livestock headed to slaughter.
If Jack the Ripper paid his fare and refused to give his seat up because he had plans even he should not have been treated like this man.
What is so really depressing and despairing is that beyond a few fellow passengers using their phones to record the incident along with some muted verbal protests that not one other passenger rose to stand with to protect Dr. Dao and be their brother's keeper. Instead they behaved like livestock headed to slaughter.
If Jack the Ripper paid his fare and refused to give his seat up because he had plans even he should not have been treated like this man.
8
What is lost in this article and commentary is United was not maximizing profits. The seat was filled with a revenue paying passenger. The flight was evidently full. Seat revenue was decreased/eliminated by placing employees on the flight. UAL stated they used a random method to determine who to remove. Profits were clearly not the motive.
The question UAL must answer is why they removed paying passengers for non-revenue employees?
The question UAL must answer is why they removed paying passengers for non-revenue employees?
5
Traveling onUnited is a terrible experience. they seem to have a persistent problem with getting their air crews in place. This has delayed my more recent, and hopefully last, flights with them.
6
There is a constant mention of the individuals who accosted this gentlemen as being "police". I'm accustomed to a police officer or a law enforcement officer as having a badge with a number and a firearm which as best as I can tell these three people did not.
I have seen law enforcement people board an aircraft (not for an oversold situation) and they most certainly had shields and guns.
I have seen law enforcement people board an aircraft (not for an oversold situation) and they most certainly had shields and guns.
1
They were policemen who are members of the Chicago Department of Aviation Police Department. They do not carry weapons. Only members of the Chicago Policement are the only local cops who carry weapons at the airport.
1
There is something insidious occuring with our attitudes and treatment of people. We are developing an arrogante and a return to Barbarism. This is trickle down from the current administration and its Draconian approach. We are seeing a culture of intimidation, a smashing of environmental protection, of elegant and precise language, of polite discourse of facts. We are tolerating the violation of personal/sexual boundaries and of the truth and social customs by leaders, politicians, and other high profile citizens.
The use of unmerciful power, the power of CBP, ICE, abuse of police power, the scent of a police state, and expressed bias toward the racially different than the white rich establishment,...the poor, people of color, immigrants, different sexual orietntation, affect all people, including children who feel that it is ok to bully others. It includes bureaucrats who have a whiff of power, like a security guard, called by attendants with no imagination, no finesse, no judgment, and no concern for the public face of its company. We are following the example of the bullies in the White House.
We should have been more careful of whom we elected president.
The use of unmerciful power, the power of CBP, ICE, abuse of police power, the scent of a police state, and expressed bias toward the racially different than the white rich establishment,...the poor, people of color, immigrants, different sexual orietntation, affect all people, including children who feel that it is ok to bully others. It includes bureaucrats who have a whiff of power, like a security guard, called by attendants with no imagination, no finesse, no judgment, and no concern for the public face of its company. We are following the example of the bullies in the White House.
We should have been more careful of whom we elected president.
4
How much did United pay yesterday to retain the services of a "reputation management" firm?
Now multiply that by 5 for Dr. Dao and also make a distribution to all the other passengers on the flight who witnessed the brutal treatment of a fellow passenger. That's a trauma as well.
Next, fire the CEO. The degree of managerial incompetence evidenced by his moronic, tone-deaf responses on Monday is reason enough.
Now multiply that by 5 for Dr. Dao and also make a distribution to all the other passengers on the flight who witnessed the brutal treatment of a fellow passenger. That's a trauma as well.
Next, fire the CEO. The degree of managerial incompetence evidenced by his moronic, tone-deaf responses on Monday is reason enough.
7
I assign Bannon to investigate this incident.
1
This is a very ugly situation and I have a flight home to visit my parents from London on United. I don't know what to do...
Congress needs to change the laws. I'm quite disturbed by what I see. I wonder if the President was also moved by the video? All of the other passengers should file a lawsuit for the stress that it must have also caused them...
Congress needs to change the laws. I'm quite disturbed by what I see. I wonder if the President was also moved by the video? All of the other passengers should file a lawsuit for the stress that it must have also caused them...
The airlines' business practices defy logic. Event promoters stopped general admission seating long ago. In what other venue do you pay for a seat and it can be taken away because an employee needs it, or they didn't not keep track of how many times they sold that seat? And this isn't a $50 seat it's a $300 - $500 seat. You book a %500 seat at a show or restaurant and you are treated like royalty. Not United.
Classic example of an airline merger turning a good company, Continental, into the worst airline in the U.S.. And you have to wonder why the Asian was selected, even after identifying himself as a doctor. United still has not revealed the logic behind selecting this person.
Why the violence? There was a simple way to remedy the situation, just announce that the plane could not depart until one more person volunteered to give up the seat for a later flight, cash, and free lodging and meals.
Classic example of an airline merger turning a good company, Continental, into the worst airline in the U.S.. And you have to wonder why the Asian was selected, even after identifying himself as a doctor. United still has not revealed the logic behind selecting this person.
Why the violence? There was a simple way to remedy the situation, just announce that the plane could not depart until one more person volunteered to give up the seat for a later flight, cash, and free lodging and meals.
3
They tried that - no takers.
1
Why didn't he just leave peacefully like the other 3 passengers did, why did he resort to being REMOVED? His ethnicity has NOTHING to do with his treatment, he was asked to leave and he refused. End of story!
1
Think about it. Think really, really hard.
14
Because he had been seated, he had a valid ticket, UAL was too stupid and cheap to sweeten the pot for volunteers, and he was under absolutely, positively no obligation to get off, sick/ bad federal "law" and abuse thereof notwithstanding.
15
Really!? Dragging an older man down the isles? A doctor who felt as though he had a higher obligation to get back to his patients than give up his seat for the promise of first class seat on another flight-if they could get him on, that is, not a guarantee. Violence toward a paying customer is never an answer to a problem, never. Instead of overbooking, maybe United should have found an alternative solution to getting their employees to another destination. Do their needs supersede the paying public's? Your attitude is that of an administrative thug overseeing the herd.
United, we abuse you.
United, we do not understand how to solve customer issues that we create.
United, our CEO is a fountain of unrepeatable outrage.
United, we do not deserve your business.
United has brought shame on itself.
United, we do not understand how to solve customer issues that we create.
United, our CEO is a fountain of unrepeatable outrage.
United, we do not deserve your business.
United has brought shame on itself.
7
PR crisis? United's public relations team might consider a re-launch of their old marketing campaign, "Fly the Friendly Skies."
1
It is amazing at how they even bungled an apology after they thrashed a 69 year old man. They took it as an opportunity to craft an insincere and carefully worded release designed to admit no responsibility. It shows how out of touch this corporation is that it could not even figure out an apology was in order. I flew United for years but switched to Continental after several negative experiences. After the merger, I found myself as an unenthusiastic customer once again. I have one more non-refundable business trip with them and then I will find another carrier. Flying is stressful enough and they do nothing for a coach customer to make it pleasant. Every aspect of their business model is exploited to chisel every last cent out of the flying customer coming and going. I am surprised they have not instituted the pay-toilet on their flights. No thanks.
9
So many mistakes made by the United management here. And, as a former Security Chief I see a complete breakdown in training and preparation for this type of situation. If the customer, the paying customer, says "No" then you cannot touch him. It is assault and more. The guards should be criminally charged and the supervisor who ordered the physical removal should be arrested. I would like to see the NY Times publish the names of the United Airlines and Security company personnel involved for a proper public shaming.
9
Recently American Airlines forced a man with cerebral palsy off a flight apparently because of his disability! Mark E. Smith uses a wheelchair for his disability but flies as part of his business (see: American Airlines Checked My Dignity at the Gate). What is going on with our airlines?
6
The flight was not over-booked. UAL simply wanted four seats to transport its own employees. How Rule 25 applies to this scenario mystifies me, as does the preposterous failure in planning.
Now I read in these comments that the flight wasn't really UAL's, but an affiliated airline operating under UAL's aegis. But I'm not hearing that from Munoz. This is UAL's problem. And it's emblematic of the sorry state of air travel in America.
Now I read in these comments that the flight wasn't really UAL's, but an affiliated airline operating under UAL's aegis. But I'm not hearing that from Munoz. This is UAL's problem. And it's emblematic of the sorry state of air travel in America.
6
Why has no one brought up 14 CFR 220.a up yet? Seems applicable:
§ 250.2a Policy regarding denied boarding.
In the event of an oversold flight, every carrier shall ensure that the smallest practicable number of persons holding confirmed reserved space on that flight are denied boarding involuntarily.
§ 250.2a Policy regarding denied boarding.
In the event of an oversold flight, every carrier shall ensure that the smallest practicable number of persons holding confirmed reserved space on that flight are denied boarding involuntarily.
1
Because it wasn't an oversold flight? United didn't sell more tickets for the flight than the plane had seats.
2
Not applicable. The flight was not oversold.
1
They weren't denied boarding. They boarded. That policy is irrelevant.
4
Reaccommodate customers. Too funny! Way to go United!
4
Yes, Dr. Dao was re-accommodated alright -- into a hospital!
4
What blows my mind:
The flight was delayed for 3 hours. Nonstop flight from O'Hare to Louisville is a bit over an hour.
According to Google Maps, the drive time between O'Hare and SDF is just under 5 hours.
Honestly, why didn't United just hire a limo or car service to DRIVE its employees and avoid kicking its seated customers off the plane (much less assaulting one of them)?
Good for Dr. Dao for sticking to his guns.
The flight was delayed for 3 hours. Nonstop flight from O'Hare to Louisville is a bit over an hour.
According to Google Maps, the drive time between O'Hare and SDF is just under 5 hours.
Honestly, why didn't United just hire a limo or car service to DRIVE its employees and avoid kicking its seated customers off the plane (much less assaulting one of them)?
Good for Dr. Dao for sticking to his guns.
12
United should be fined by Fed and a compensation should be made to victim for the physical insult as well as for the humiliation he got subjected to
7
There's one question I haven't seen addressed, though maybe it was elsewhere: was first class full? I've been on flights where first class was half empty, and yet the airline was looking for volunteers to postpone travel.
5
I have had to re-accommodate my United/Chase charge card from my wallet to a waiting area in my desk drawer where it will remain on standby indefinitely.
7
The no-shows don't get a refund. So every seat on the plane is paid for and, one would assume, the airline has covered its costs and made a profit, albeit perhaps small, on that flight. In that case, the impetus mentioned in the article - "maximizing profits" - needs to be highlighted and clearly understood. This appears to be about greed and not survival. Corporate stockholders: Are you okay with brutal, inhumane episodes like this one as long as they tend to increase the value of your equity? If so, why not just oversell the entire plane, drag off all the passengers in the first wave and then seat the second set? Heck, it could be done several times per flight and profits would surpass even the oil companies'!
7
lots of opinions on this somewhat small (but deserving subject. it'd a very simple one to. NO passenger on any airline, train line, bus\line, or whatever, should ever ever ever be bumped for a company freebee flier. Period. period. period. Any employee who knowingly does so has a real problem with simple human ethics.
4
I have been bumped more than once.
And, it is quite annoying to be bumped when you are going for a 3-Day Vacation and are looking at loosing your first day.
The Airline Companies should be required to give you 2 free tickets to anywhere in the world and to pay for the lost vacation day.
Then, you would see this practice stopped.
And, it is quite annoying to be bumped when you are going for a 3-Day Vacation and are looking at loosing your first day.
The Airline Companies should be required to give you 2 free tickets to anywhere in the world and to pay for the lost vacation day.
Then, you would see this practice stopped.
12
I think it's interesting that a number of folks took out their phones and made videos, but not one actually stood up for the guy.
Because they fear they would be the ones next dragged off the plane!
5
Yes, they did! Several outraged passengers shouted OMG! "You shouldn't be doing this"!, etc. These cops have guns, as well.
1
People are reacting to more than just this incident. This is a cumulative reaction to the ever-increasing misery and inconvenience of air travel, the constant price increases for worsening service and conditions and fewer amenities. Air passengers are treated like cattle, not paying customers. A carrier like United has a virtual monopoly over certain routes, and this is reflected in the contempt they have for their customers.
If United doesn't want to sell me a seat for $800, I can't call the police to force them. Should be same if I don't want to sell United its seat back for $800. Companies decry government price controls... unless they're the buyers.
I believe the passenger was wrong.
the really stupid thing is that Louisville is a 4-hour drive from Chicago. By the time you check in 2 hours early and go thru all that nonsense, you could have rented a car and driven.
People have only themselves to blame on this one; stop complaining about the airlines and don't fly them if you don't like them. That's the market economy at work. United left JFK because noone wanted to fly them. Not hard to kick them out of a lot of other places.
People have only themselves to blame on this one; stop complaining about the airlines and don't fly them if you don't like them. That's the market economy at work. United left JFK because noone wanted to fly them. Not hard to kick them out of a lot of other places.
What really got United's attention was the stock falling; their actual attitude is reflected in the second statement where Munoz accuses the passenger of defying police, and therefore causing the problem. Our wellbeing and comfort as customers is secondary to a high rate of return to the stockholders.
6
If the employees had been allowed to bid the price to deplane high enough, I am sure 4 would eventually take it. Too expensive? How much is and was the cost of this debacle to United.
The man was a 68 year old senior citizen.
What world have we come to? In the past, seniors were invited to have the best seats when traveling, when on the bus, etc.
Now we are in a world where airlines like United are brutally beating up our senior citizens.
What world have we come to? In the past, seniors were invited to have the best seats when traveling, when on the bus, etc.
Now we are in a world where airlines like United are brutally beating up our senior citizens.
8
"mistakes were made."
3
This incident shows why we need regulation. Once seated, no person (except someone flying standby) should ever have to worry about being evicted. "Re-accommodate" is no accommodation. They created this problem all by themselves. On-time arrivals have improved mostly because airlines allow more leeway in their arrival times, not because they got off on time.
The other thing Congress should address is luggage and extra fees. The first bag should always be free and be required to be free. The reason for this is that it would make going through security much easier aiding everyone. As part of such a requirement, it would also make stowage space available so airline can dump their inefficient and anti-egalitarian boarding process. By all means, board 1st class first, but the rest of customers should board from the back to the front and the windows to the aisle. It takes enormous extra time to board because of this. I have status, but the prime reason I need it is to make sure I can stow my computer above my head instead of at my feet in the tine space allowed.
In this case, cost-savings, efficiency, and regulation would all be forwarded by sensible airline regulation. The last step would be to create a stronger passenger's bill of rights. Some regulation occurred a few years ago after the JetBlue incident, but more needs to be done, because the free enterprise system does not work in a oligopoly situation as here.
The other thing Congress should address is luggage and extra fees. The first bag should always be free and be required to be free. The reason for this is that it would make going through security much easier aiding everyone. As part of such a requirement, it would also make stowage space available so airline can dump their inefficient and anti-egalitarian boarding process. By all means, board 1st class first, but the rest of customers should board from the back to the front and the windows to the aisle. It takes enormous extra time to board because of this. I have status, but the prime reason I need it is to make sure I can stow my computer above my head instead of at my feet in the tine space allowed.
In this case, cost-savings, efficiency, and regulation would all be forwarded by sensible airline regulation. The last step would be to create a stronger passenger's bill of rights. Some regulation occurred a few years ago after the JetBlue incident, but more needs to be done, because the free enterprise system does not work in a oligopoly situation as here.
4
This incident by United isn't surprising. In August 2014, at Newark terminal C, I was not allowed to board a United flight because the gate agent had given my seat to "someone". Our group was never called, there was no final boarding announcement and my name was not called. The gate agent repeatedly lied about the incident. My wife, who was seated on the plane, left her seat to join me as we argued with the gate agent. There were police at the gate involved with other passengers. I was warned by the Police to calm down. I attribute the chaos and repressive atmosphere to United employees not having sufficient training and a culture that has no interest in customer service. After 3 letters to United and their subsequent denial of any responsibility they rewarded me with a 100 dollar voucher. I haven't flown United in 2 years and never will.
9
Do they still use the slogan, "Fly the friendly skies of United"? I guess not.
3
This wouldn't have been an issue if the hysterical DR wasn't screaming bloody murder. The other 3 left the plane. He must have felt he was above the fine print. However, United should never ask any civil passenger to leave once boarded.
@al - The doctor only began screaming after being assaulted by the airline police, who were called by United. United caused this problem and then made things worse every step of the way, up to and including Mr. Munoz's uninformed statement the first time, and his lame correction afterwards.
3
Booked a flight with family just last night. The cheaper airline was United. My Delta flight is going to be enjoyable in more ways than one.
Many people have long memories of abuse by UAL. When there is no goodwill in the bank, the knives come out.
Many people have long memories of abuse by UAL. When there is no goodwill in the bank, the knives come out.
6
What do this United Airlines incident and an anti-heroin video just released of the Lake County, FL sheriff flanked by masked law enforcement officials have in common: the militarization of police in which excessive and unnecessary force occurs with greater and greater frequency.
8
Overbooking has been a problem for years. I'm very happy that people have made this video viral and shamed the airline. At least in the good ole days before corporate greed became a cancer in this country, if you were bumped because the plane was overbooked, you would be upgraded to first class on the next flight or given a complimentary hotel room for the night.
9
I don't get it....the overbooking. If you have paid for your ticket but do not show up, does the airline get to sell that seat again? Perhaps, in order to accommodate stand-bys....to make more efficient use of the seats available.
Dear United Airlines, you're inability to properly plan or manage does not constitute an emergency on my part and certainly does not give you the right to rip any paying customer off a plane so that you can transport your employees.
22
Why can't competitive airlines share unoccupied seats to shuttle flight attendants and pilots around? I fly 100k miles a year and regularly see empty seats that could be used to move United personnel on an American flight, for instance. No revenue is lost by either carrier; no flight disruptions and no stormtrooper-like behavior by airport police. I would ask, however, that United personnel remove any identifiable logos or uniforms on American flights for fear that AA might adopt their tactics. Airlines tend to follow each others leads on eliminating any trace of customer service.
6
I don't blame United, I blame law enforcement. This was essentially a contract dispute that wasn't adjudicated. If United employees had dragged him off the plane I'm guessing United would have a real liability issue on their hands.
Why is law enforcement dragging a customer off a plane because it was overbooked? I can understand law enforcement dragging someone off a plane for breaking the law but not for a dispute on a ticket. Effectively tax payers are funding United enforcement. United should have used their own security personal to remove this passenger and been on the hook for the liability. The passengers are paying for this abuse with taxes.
Why is law enforcement dragging a customer off a plane because it was overbooked? I can understand law enforcement dragging someone off a plane for breaking the law but not for a dispute on a ticket. Effectively tax payers are funding United enforcement. United should have used their own security personal to remove this passenger and been on the hook for the liability. The passengers are paying for this abuse with taxes.
9
It was not overbooked as first thought. United needed the seats for crew members who just had arrived at the gate. The crew could have driven to Louisville in 6 hours. Complete lack of common sense here!
3
@HL - Nope, it's United's fault. It was United that called for airline police to remove the passenger.
3
There is a simple way to avoid such incidents: keep increasing the compensation offered to passengers to voluntarily leave the flight until you get a taker. Even if United had had to offer $10,000 (which surely would have been enough to entice at least one passenger), it is a pittance compared to the millions in lost business, fees to crisis management consultants and lost executive time incurred bt United.
12
I hope Dr. Dao gets a huge payout.
4
I also hope he does but I don't think it will happen in view of present day state of FAA regulations or non-regulations, if you prefer.
2
Let's remember airlines that over book have already been paid for the no show seat and are trying to resell it and any discount being offered is only a portion of the money paid by the no show passenger.
10
I had the unfortunity to had travelled by this company, after this, never more for shure. Despite the fact we cannot rely in any company, but UNITED has done for me.
5
Well, thanks to the United debacle, we now have another reason for the United States Senate to delay action on any number of pressing issues facing our country. Maybe the four Senators mentioned in the article have not gotten much recent press coverage, when compared to other senatorial newsmakers.
5
Here's what I don't understand about overbooking. If I book a flight, I have to pay for it, in advance. There are no refunds if you miss your flight. So how do no-shows cost the airline anything?
The only reason they overbook is so they can effectively sell seats twice. Once to the no-show, and again to somebody else. How is that fair to consumers?
The only reason they overbook is so they can effectively sell seats twice. Once to the no-show, and again to somebody else. How is that fair to consumers?
14
That is my reaction as well, but you can argue that an empty seat is inefficient use of capacity and that it can be used for the benefit of standby passengers. Perhaps Munoz came up through the Accounting Dept.
2
If you pay the cheapest fare or use miles and someone pays full fare, you will get thrown off.
Simple airline 101 economics.
Simple airline 101 economics.
2
We need Congress to restrict overbooking. In any other industry, this would be considered fraud. The airlines have made it clear that they cannot regulate themselves.
11
Don't forget it was the cops who actually roughed this guy up. The fact that US cops go hands-on so quickly and casually is disgusting and is a major cause of the problem.
7
This cooment explains the problem best. Where has "reasonable" gone?
Nope. Airport rent-a-cops...not 'the' cops (not Chicago police).
The cops were told by United that "they had a combative and disruptive passenger that needed to be removed from the plane." Didn't the cops realize the absurdity of this action when they met the customer?
1
United shows it's aggressive pricing and little regard for customers in many ways. Beating up a doc trying to get to his patients is taking it to a criminal level. The company deserves all the bad publicity it is getting. I only hope the executives don't get away with diverting all the punishment to the guards. I quit United several years ago when I was flying coach from Asia (14+ hrs) and realized that only 4 seats were occupied in the "more legroom" section of about 100 seats. The extra charge for these seats was more than a hotel room for the night.
9
Yeah right; and my name is Ronald Reagan.
1
Several observations & suggestions:
1. In my recollection, prior to this event, the only people who would randomly select innocent plane passengers and then attack them and forcibly remove them had been hijackers and terrorists.
2. If the United employee who was given Dr. Dao's seat had been PLACED in the seat using the exact same methods used to remove the good doctor -- in other words, dragged INTO the plane, then forcibly shoved over the armrest into the seat -- I believe that employee just might have opted to take the 4-hour car ride to Louisville.
3. United should be reminded that the only proper way to generate drag on an airplane is to use wing flaps. It's a confluence of simple aerodynamics plus customer relations plus stock value management.
4. Once United promises to swear off forcible restraint, they can change the name of the airline to "Untied."
1. In my recollection, prior to this event, the only people who would randomly select innocent plane passengers and then attack them and forcibly remove them had been hijackers and terrorists.
2. If the United employee who was given Dr. Dao's seat had been PLACED in the seat using the exact same methods used to remove the good doctor -- in other words, dragged INTO the plane, then forcibly shoved over the armrest into the seat -- I believe that employee just might have opted to take the 4-hour car ride to Louisville.
3. United should be reminded that the only proper way to generate drag on an airplane is to use wing flaps. It's a confluence of simple aerodynamics plus customer relations plus stock value management.
4. Once United promises to swear off forcible restraint, they can change the name of the airline to "Untied."
7
No defense for United's "solution" to this particular pincident. But many proposed "remedies" are wrong-headed. If airlines sell 70 tickets for a 70-seat plane, or use 120-seat planes on low traffic routes, they will be flying hundreds of empty seats every day. That will affect ticket prices. But as long as airlines continue to penalize no-shows with a steep change fee, the flip side is that the airlines MUST do whatever it takes to attract volunteers to disembark. Just keep upping the ante until 4 volunteers accept.
6
Why can't we allow a realtor sell a property to 2,3,4 or more buyers. Why can't a movie theater sell tickets to ten more customers than the seats in the theater? What is wrong with that. If airlines can do it other business should also do the same. It is a free democratic economy. Companies should not be told how to run their business. It is a cardinal sin in Capitalism.
5
Munos next job should be press secretary. He is almost as bad as Spicer.
9
It's not just when United customers board their planes that they're treated like dirt. We have a $2500 credit with United because our family had to suddenly cancel travel plans last summer, and they refused to refund our tickets. Now they're charging us a $200 per ticket "rebooking fee" in order to use our credit. That's an extra $600 for my three-person family. Imagine if you had a store credit and the store CHARGED you 25% of your credit in order to use it! Shame on these robbers!
15
You mean, like when "gift cards" purchased at retail, EXPIRE?
3
The distinction is the once the plane takes off with the empty seat, that product disappears, unlike the wrench you can return to the store.
The law was changed. Gift cards can't expire.
Doubtless, this was an "old" United crew. There is still a DRASTIC difference in attitude toward customer service between the "old" awesome Continental folks and the miserable United folks. This incident is one of a nearly infinite number of reasons the merger was a huge mistake.
4
So tired of the comments relating this to Trump. Not at all helpful or constructive.
Unacceptable!!!!
Boycott United. This is the only way to change UA's belief that their profits are more important than treating paying customers with dignity and fairness.
I've been in the corporate environment for forty years and I've also surmised there is nothing special about CEOs and upper management. Munoz proves my point. They get in their position by a combination of luck, willing to be brutal, showing no empathy and good political maneuvering. Nothing special about these people, they are average - definitely not leaders.
I am here hearing United Breaks Guitars in YouTube... Oh my! They never learned! And they escalated from Guitars to Humans! And the guy was 69 years old! And I cannot stop writing exclamation marks!
“No one should ever be mistreated this way,” Oscar Munoz, the company’s chief executive, said in a statement.
Translation:There are so many others ways to mistreat the customers. So many others ways to do it. So let's not put company's bottom line at risk.. Just keep demeaning them. As long as you do not get caught on camera. All is well.
Translation:There are so many others ways to mistreat the customers. So many others ways to do it. So let's not put company's bottom line at risk.. Just keep demeaning them. As long as you do not get caught on camera. All is well.
13
I have an alternate hypothesis: the problem here isn't limited to United, but rather to the FAA as well, for giving airlines nearly absolute control over who can or can't fly on any given flight. While this event may be the most violent and visually shocking to date, thanks to all the smartphone videos of it taking place, every major airline has routinely ejected passengers for exhibiting even vaguely "suspicious" behavior, e.g. the incident where a passenger was ejected solely because another passenger saw him writing notes in Arabic.
In addition to reevaluating its policies about the extent to which airlines should be allowed to oversell flights, how about the FAA also use this opportunity to look -- comprehensively look, that is, not a cursory analysis -- at what types of security controls of all stripes are and aren't necessary in the name of "safety"? (Case in point: I once witnessed a woman forcibly removed from, yep, a United flight -- as in walked off by armed police officers, albeit without struggle -- solely for refusing to get off her cellphone. The fact that she was clearly in distress and returning home after visiting her father's on his probable death bed -- which I overheard, without intending to, from her phone call comments, given that she was seated two rows behind me -- clearly didn't sway the airline in any manner. "Rules are rules," to paraphrase what they told her.)
In addition to reevaluating its policies about the extent to which airlines should be allowed to oversell flights, how about the FAA also use this opportunity to look -- comprehensively look, that is, not a cursory analysis -- at what types of security controls of all stripes are and aren't necessary in the name of "safety"? (Case in point: I once witnessed a woman forcibly removed from, yep, a United flight -- as in walked off by armed police officers, albeit without struggle -- solely for refusing to get off her cellphone. The fact that she was clearly in distress and returning home after visiting her father's on his probable death bed -- which I overheard, without intending to, from her phone call comments, given that she was seated two rows behind me -- clearly didn't sway the airline in any manner. "Rules are rules," to paraphrase what they told her.)
9
There was the incident in which a passenger was ejected because another passenger saw him writing notes in math - which this passenger thought was Arabic - demonstrating to the world just how ignorant and prejudiced America has become.
3
You cannot expect any airline to undertake an investigation into the passengers circumstances before making a decision to take them off. Other passengers would complain about the disaccommodation.
"Ms. McCarthy would not share the written policy."
Then its not a "written policy", but rather a secret policy. In other words, totally arbitrary.
Then its not a "written policy", but rather a secret policy. In other words, totally arbitrary.
UAL's actions in this situation contradict their own capitalist premise. The market value of giving up one's paid seat due to UAL's bad luck or bad planning is whatever the seat holder can squeeze out of UAL--that's how capitalist markets work. When shoe pinched, UAL called the cops. A lively parable for why we all hate capitalists: They so often cheat at their own rigged game.
8
As a world-traveling Asian myself, I'm baffled and ashamed of the way this grown man conducted himself with flight staff and security. If he was mentally unstable, I would have still wanted him off the flight. A plane readying for takeoff is truly no place for such disturbing confrontations. I believe there are strict FAA regulations on what protocols airlines must follow. If reassignment indeed constitutes gross violation of passenger rights, a lawyer should be involved, before inciting the arms of law enforcement. Personally I would have been one of the passengers who took the compensation and quietly disembarked. What frequent flyer has not suffered from inconvenience and frustration in one way or form at some point in their travels? How much worse will air travel become if every man, woman and 'child' threw a shrieking tantrum at the slightest reluctance felt? I would hate to see episodes such as this play out in infinite variations every time I sit down in a plane!
2
"As a world-traveling Asian myself", so this is an "Asian" view? Is it that different from the ordinary human view that no one should be physically roughened up as Dr. Dao was in order to have him removed? "Him" being a passenger who paid for his ticket, trekked all the way to the airport and was already IN HIS SEAT on the airplane? I take your point that " A plane readying for takeoff is truly no place for such disturbing confrontations". But WHO caused the confrontations? I further take your point that you "would have been one of the passengers who took the compensation and quietly disembarked". But one cannot help but suspect that one of the key reasons that United and its likes can ride roughshod over so many of us so many times with so much immunity is precisely because too many of us have done exactly that for too many times.
2
Nice to know you would have quietly disembarked. I guess you won't lose your job if you don't show up the next day. Perhaps you don't have elderly parents, young children, pets, or property awaiting your return from your trip. Perhaps you're not trying to get to your son's wedding or home in time for a funeral. Perhaps you don't have a limited number of vacation days, like the rest of the country does.
When I buy I ticket, and have my reservation confirmed, I expect to fly on the plane! I don't have a day to sit around in a hotel room, even if the airline is offering to cover the cost.
When I buy I ticket, and have my reservation confirmed, I expect to fly on the plane! I don't have a day to sit around in a hotel room, even if the airline is offering to cover the cost.
3
I am an Asian myself. I am very concerned about your health. You might have Stockholm syndrome. I would suggest you talk to a doctor.
3
Could NYT also put some focus on excess fees? Bags used to be free. Then for a long time they were $25. Yesterday United tried to charge $100 per bag. Outrageous! It is time to re-regulate this industry. They are out of control.
Perhaps there is hope if a carrier chooses the high service, no-extra-fee model. Alaska/Virgin, are you listening?
Perhaps there is hope if a carrier chooses the high service, no-extra-fee model. Alaska/Virgin, are you listening?
8
This while business of overbooking has gone on far too long. Most of take flights because we need to be somewhere perhaps to make another connection or for an important appointment. The threat of being forcefully denied what we paid for and expected is reprehensible. I will not fly United again until this policy is changed.
14
It is NOT a PR crisis. It is a crisis of a lack of humanity. Without the incident being recorded, United Airlines could have hidden behind character assassination of the passenger and his conduct to justify its actions. However, the video shows how little regard the airline and security personnel had for a human passenger.
The PR dust up is because United was not forthright about what happened -- as in the airline's initial responses were lies.
The PR dust up is because United was not forthright about what happened -- as in the airline's initial responses were lies.
While enablers like the Republicans distract us with shiny objects, the threat of militant capitalism is crushing the middle class and poor.
10
United may re-think their cost-benefit analysis after this guy sues them for tens of millions and wins.
13
What troubles me most about this story is that the slightest resistance to uniformed authority will leave you beaten or dead, and all the cameras trained on the scene have no impact on the behavior of the uniforms. This is not so much about United Airlines as it is about us as a people.
27
Precisely. Those police were wrong, wrong, wrong. They escalated a situation that they could have defused by merely calling for an actual rulebook.
If any of them had taken a minute to read United's rule about this situation, they would have realized that the company was already violating its own rules by forcing paid passengers from their seats to accommodate its own employees.
At that point they should have told the United staff to get a clue and figure out a different way to handle the problem. They should have then left the airplane.
They had no business acting as goons for a corporation that merely didn't want to honor its side of the contract it made with a customer. Roughing up a customer who has done nothing wrong, but who is simply less powerful than a corporation, is utterly immoral.
Everyone is in big trouble if police start taking orders from corporations that want them to do their dirty work for them.
If any of them had taken a minute to read United's rule about this situation, they would have realized that the company was already violating its own rules by forcing paid passengers from their seats to accommodate its own employees.
At that point they should have told the United staff to get a clue and figure out a different way to handle the problem. They should have then left the airplane.
They had no business acting as goons for a corporation that merely didn't want to honor its side of the contract it made with a customer. Roughing up a customer who has done nothing wrong, but who is simply less powerful than a corporation, is utterly immoral.
Everyone is in big trouble if police start taking orders from corporations that want them to do their dirty work for them.
Easy fix - you simply offer increasingly more money until you get enough volunteers to give up their seats. Don't stop at $800 - keep going higher until you get willing volunteers...
United could have easily avoided this by offering 4 passengers $1,200 each and a hotel room...
United could have easily avoided this by offering 4 passengers $1,200 each and a hotel room...
9
i have been flying for business purposes for many years. years ago it was not unusual for one airline to rebook me on another airline(at their expense) because of different problems. rebooking on a different airline was the norm. this does not seem to be the the norm anymore, however delta did this for me last year(rebooked me to United) and drove me to a different airport(one-half hour away) at their expense. ( i did have a first class ticket so maybe that is the reason). in any event i got home in due course, etc and am grateful for the help. maybe airlines should be quicker to rebook on other airlines or at least do so for their own employees(costs money). maybe employees should have to live in their home bases and not in some faraway place which requires much travel.
5
The CEO hasn't even resigned yet for the mistreatment and bad planning so I still think United will sink lower. I think I will need to save a lot more money for air travel to make sure I would be treated as a person.
5
We know what Munoz and United really think about the passenger they seated pursuant to their agreement and then violently threw off the plane. No amount of after-the-fact PR can cover their contempt for passengers. The only thing that will teach United a lesson is a consumer boycott.
17
"Last year, airlines involuntarily bumped about 40,600 people". 40,600 people actually purchased tickets and were not allowed to fly. How is this acceptable?
Tone deaf, heavy handed management. You'll never see that type of treatment on Southwest Airlines. They empower their employees.
Just remember to demand $1350 for you next bump and accept nothing less.
6
I'm sure that if the top compensation offered hadn't stopped at $1,000, United would have found more than enough volunteers. At $5,000 I would have taken it. (I'm in the 1% and even $1,000 would have merited serious thought. Perhaps that's why I'm in the 1%.)
Given what read about the dreadful state of the average American's finances, I'm surprised no one took them up on the $1,000. $1,000 is real money! Perhaps the typical domestic passenger is more prosperous than he or she looks while clogging the airplane aisle wheeling luggage that obviously violates the size restrictions just to save $25.
Given what read about the dreadful state of the average American's finances, I'm surprised no one took them up on the $1,000. $1,000 is real money! Perhaps the typical domestic passenger is more prosperous than he or she looks while clogging the airplane aisle wheeling luggage that obviously violates the size restrictions just to save $25.
2
Vouchers are not real money
1
"If the crew members had not been allowed to board, Ms. McCarthy said, the Monday morning flight would have been canceled." A frequent traveler posted in a travel blog that there is generally reciprocity among airlines for crews needing to be in other places for flights. The writer claims that there were several options available to the crew for getting to Louisville other than bumping already seated passengers. (If the crew actually needed to be in Louisville as stated.) The writer said he flies the route all the time and identified other options. I couldn't find source to link to this comment but will continue to look. Suggest some enterprising reporter explore 1) is it true that crew had to be in Louisville or flight would have been cancelled (or did they have a dinner reservation somewhere). 2) Check at the Chicago end - where there other options available for crew to get to Louisville in time for their scheduled flight (if there really was a scheduled flight) WITHOUT bumping already seated passengers (dragging a seated passenger). Explanations seem a bit smelly.
10
Wrong. Dinner reservations? You have to be kidding me. Do you have any idea how little a regional airline crew is paid? It's McDonald's or Subway.
Reciprocity is for jumps eats. This crew was on duty dead heading to cover a trip in the morning. Yes it would be cancelled. Maybe a flight later in the day was going to Louisville but the crew has a requirement to be in Louisville for required rest to be legal for the trip in the morning. We also have maximum duty day to account for. Max work day depends on circadian rhythm, legs flown, previous rest etc.. Very complicated.
Reciprocity is for jumps eats. This crew was on duty dead heading to cover a trip in the morning. Yes it would be cancelled. Maybe a flight later in the day was going to Louisville but the crew has a requirement to be in Louisville for required rest to be legal for the trip in the morning. We also have maximum duty day to account for. Max work day depends on circadian rhythm, legs flown, previous rest etc.. Very complicated.
1
Hopefully, Dr. Dao has hired a good lawyer. If I were the victim, I would sue them for a whole lot.
3
I hear Adele: "Skyfall".
1
I went to the US in 1980 to study. Although I am Australian now, I was going there from Pakistan. In my letters to my parents, I described US as paradise. Everything was perfect. Southwestern Bell gave me a phone line in 1 day... yes 1 day when, back then, it would have taken 17 years in Pakistan to get a phone line - I am not kidding, we did not have a phone in our house in Pakistan. Each and every service in the US was excellent. I loved everything about USA. I took many US domestic flights during the 80s and 90s and never ever was there any issue. In 1995 I dropped off my sister at the gate at Houston Intercontinental airport, after we all went thru security.
It is so sad what has happened to the USA. Very sad. I hope you guys get it together. You folks have become inhumane, worst than common crooks in 3rd world countries.
In re this event, this passenger, that police officer should have had more sense and at a minimum I think he should be fired for the mistreatment. A police officer here in Australia would NEVER do this, rather his job is to deescalate every situation and he would speak with respect - they don't even treat criminals like that here.
It is so sad what has happened to the USA. Very sad. I hope you guys get it together. You folks have become inhumane, worst than common crooks in 3rd world countries.
In re this event, this passenger, that police officer should have had more sense and at a minimum I think he should be fired for the mistreatment. A police officer here in Australia would NEVER do this, rather his job is to deescalate every situation and he would speak with respect - they don't even treat criminals like that here.
18
Of course not all of us "folks" have become inhumane. Three million more of us voted for Hillary Clinton than those who voted for the despicable man who became president. We folk are writing letters, living in anguish, contributing to all manner of worthy causes, marching, phoning our representatives - doing everything we can to show that our country is us - not the ones running the circus right now. We understand your concern, believe me.
7
Our demise started with Reagan.
I must clarify, that by "you folks", I meant ONLY some folks, like that police officer, the representatives of United Airlines at the counter who called the police when this was not a police matter, rather this was an issue of enough incentivization for someone to take the offer.
1
Why did Munoz issue a second apology? Apparently he had a change of heart.
2
He should have just gotten off the plane, why did he think he was so special? Refuse to follow the rules, pay the price and don't throw a tantrum.
Because they can't bump you after boarding. Go read the fine print.
3
The way we will know if United gets the message will be seeing how many officers of the company are fired for this inept policy and Mr. Moniz's initial responses.
4
My dear friend and a lady of 70 years was thrown off Air Canada a United Affiliate because she asked the flight attendant to help her stow her bag in the overhead compartment. They took her off in a closed airport after a flight delay of 8 hours for mechanical failure and left her to fend for herself. I also let the plane to ensure her safety. An outrage and truly disgusting behavior. I will never fly Air Canada or United again!
6
Apologized, eh? Losing a billion in stock value, in one day, will make it easy to do so....
4
Is there an airline that does not overbook so a person buying a ticket can be sure to have a seat on the plane?
Thanks,
Eric
Thanks,
Eric
3
jet blue reportedly does not overbook.
1
As you read these comments, please notice that most of the high mileage customers (1K mileage, very frequent flyers) have a bit different view. As a former high mileage flyer, I too was treated with some respect and was usually comfortable on United. Once I, thankfully, did not fly all the time for work, I moved out of the special client status and on my very first flight as a "normal" flyer, was shocked to find out that United employees could care less about passengers. I was merely a nuisance encased in an comfortable seat for hours at a time. As the corporate greed increased, so did the discomfort. On a recent trip to Japan for instance (11 hour flight?), the flight attendants clustered in the back of the plane only coming out once to serve the meal and a couple of times to serve water. Venturing to the back of the plane to request help with heating a baby bottle, get a drink, or to report a problem was met with disgust and a reluctance to respond from attendants reading magazines. I was unable to get my seat to recline (11 hrs. upright?); the disaffected flight attendant told me that was a mechanic problem and didn't even try to remove what was a simple blockage. We have a choice, and I now choose to fly any non US airline. And you now what, I discovered CUSTOMER SERVICE for all passengers there.
11
I also flew United a few years ago -- to China-- and my seat did not recline either, not because of a malfunction but because of its placement within the aircraft it was designed to not move back. And nobody warned me I'd be sitting in such a uncomfortable seat. No airline should let a passenger fly on such a long flight without reclining. After Dr. Dao's horrific episode I will never fly United again.
2
GREED IN THE AIR AND ON THE GROUND...
In the late 1960's I worked for PanAm at JFK as a special services supervisor. One of the worst tasks associated with my job was helping to select and remove seated passengers on overbooked flights, even though these passengers had booked and paid for their seats in advance. Sometimes offering them incentives to compensate them for their forced change of plans helped ease an extremely unfortunate and unpleasant experience for them. I felt PanAm should have offered to put them on a different flight, with their entire trip refunded to them in full. But it was not my position to express that to the affected passengers or to management.
The decision as to which passengers would be "bumped" from the flight was based on whether their record indicated that they were less "important" than those travelers who would be replacing them, even though the latter had not reserved or paid in advance.
It is typical for airlines to overbook flights in anticipation of "no shows", so that when a plane takes off every seat is filled, and of course there is a clear profit logic to that. But at least in the case of PanAm when I worked for them, their "no show" prediction was never modified even for the most highly traveled periods of the year, like Thanksgiving and Christmas. That was a recipe for heartache and disaster, and it made me ashamed to work for them.
But hey, it's all just business isn't it?
In the late 1960's I worked for PanAm at JFK as a special services supervisor. One of the worst tasks associated with my job was helping to select and remove seated passengers on overbooked flights, even though these passengers had booked and paid for their seats in advance. Sometimes offering them incentives to compensate them for their forced change of plans helped ease an extremely unfortunate and unpleasant experience for them. I felt PanAm should have offered to put them on a different flight, with their entire trip refunded to them in full. But it was not my position to express that to the affected passengers or to management.
The decision as to which passengers would be "bumped" from the flight was based on whether their record indicated that they were less "important" than those travelers who would be replacing them, even though the latter had not reserved or paid in advance.
It is typical for airlines to overbook flights in anticipation of "no shows", so that when a plane takes off every seat is filled, and of course there is a clear profit logic to that. But at least in the case of PanAm when I worked for them, their "no show" prediction was never modified even for the most highly traveled periods of the year, like Thanksgiving and Christmas. That was a recipe for heartache and disaster, and it made me ashamed to work for them.
But hey, it's all just business isn't it?
some businesses and business people will do anything they can get away with in order to further their own interests, usually more money. this is why many people want more government control(requiring laws and regulations) on some businesses such as banks, airlines, etc.
whether going back to strict government controls of airlines would be helpful is questionable. the airline industry would simply lobby(sometimes people call it bribing) congressmen to get what the industry wants, etc.
whether going back to strict government controls of airlines would be helpful is questionable. the airline industry would simply lobby(sometimes people call it bribing) congressmen to get what the industry wants, etc.
4
Lufthansa, Swiss and the other Star Alliance airlines need to rethink their partnership with United Airlines. They do not want to interline their passengers with an airline that brutally treats its paying passengers.
I travel regularly with both Swiss and Lufthansa. I will never again interline with United Airlines.
Done. Period. Game Over.
I travel regularly with both Swiss and Lufthansa. I will never again interline with United Airlines.
Done. Period. Game Over.
I've seen a lot of criticism here towards the other passengers for not offering to give up their seats when they saw that poor Dr. Dao being manhandled. Dr. Dao had the "best" reason for not being bumped but other passengers had their reasons as well. Maybe they were students and had a big test. Maybe they had to get their dog from the boarder. Maybe they had snuck away on a trip and had to be back in Louisville to avoid detection.
I've volunteered to be the bumped passenger before when I was a grad student and knew that there were no repercussions for my delay. To judge the passengers for their responses to the situation--sitting stock still in horror, pulling out their phones, trying to ignore the display--is wrong.
The fault here lies with United for its poor planning, the attitude that the paying passengers are of less value than the staff, and the lack of accountability. Finally, the brutality witnessed is the fault of the law officials that came on to that plane and did this to that poor man. My husband pointed out that most likely if the flight had been from Louisville TO Chicago, this probably wouldn't have occurred.
Oscar Munoz was in a bad situation but made it all the worse. Mud all over his face but the reputation of United was already a poor one for many people. Their shoddy behavior is now just reaching a wider audience.
And lastly, I detest United, I have held that attitude for years and will only fly them as a last resort, cost not a factor.
I've volunteered to be the bumped passenger before when I was a grad student and knew that there were no repercussions for my delay. To judge the passengers for their responses to the situation--sitting stock still in horror, pulling out their phones, trying to ignore the display--is wrong.
The fault here lies with United for its poor planning, the attitude that the paying passengers are of less value than the staff, and the lack of accountability. Finally, the brutality witnessed is the fault of the law officials that came on to that plane and did this to that poor man. My husband pointed out that most likely if the flight had been from Louisville TO Chicago, this probably wouldn't have occurred.
Oscar Munoz was in a bad situation but made it all the worse. Mud all over his face but the reputation of United was already a poor one for many people. Their shoddy behavior is now just reaching a wider audience.
And lastly, I detest United, I have held that attitude for years and will only fly them as a last resort, cost not a factor.
What kind of an amateurish security detail would do that to someone who posed no threat? Scenes like that make you understand the capability of authorities to engage in abuse. They just do it because they can. And decent people who know it's wrong let it happen - I'm certain that other passengers on that flight are wishing mightily that they intervened and did something (other than take a video). This is how crowds behave in the face of authorities gone rogue - they assume it's not rogue, and submit. Most of us, myself included, would probably do the same, even though we think we wouldn't. Frightening.
5
I don't think it's so much that. The very real risk is that there are police, who are in reality not really answerable to anyone, roughing up someone in front of you, and not only are there three of them, but they have guns. It's pretty realistic to be concerned that with you confronting three already violent armed officers with the entire power of the state behind them, that you might end up dead. It's not a matter of not thinking that authorities have not gone rogue (the audio clearly shows that most people are verbalizing their disagreement with what is occurring) but what is a realistic response in the moment. I very likely would not have done anything other than take video, which I freely admit, because of a very reasonable fear that anything more might result in my injury or death at the hands of the police. Sad that this is the America that my kids are growing up in.
Employees always reflect management. If management is psychotic, employees will exhibit psychotic behaviour.
5
United doesn't care about their passengers or the social media backlash. The only reason they changed their tune was because UAL stock opened almost 5% down on Tuesday.
Munoz simply made a business calculation that if his faux apology cost his shareholders almost $1 billion, he would likely be fired.
Munoz simply made a business calculation that if his faux apology cost his shareholders almost $1 billion, he would likely be fired.
9
Talk about human rights being violated! Looks like we have a very real problem here and might consider when discussing human rights around the world that it all starts at home.
6
I've been a United flyer for 7 years racking up 750k miles earning me either Platinum or 1K status. I came over from Continental. Continental was a culture of YES, while United was and still is a culture of NO. When I call the premier desk I make sure I am speaking with a Continental customer service hub because this is where the old Continental employees still are. After I ask what city they are in and if they are in a United hub, I call back. United employees are trained in the culture of NO while Continental employees still retain some of their culture of YES training. When a higher value is subsumed within a lower value, the lower value predominates. This is why Continental values are non-existent at United. I am stuck in a marriage from hell because of my status and the perks that come with it. Since the merger United has continually downgraded every perk that comes from loyalty. United really does not care about its most loyal customers, those who fly over 100k miles annually. We do not upgraded frequently or able to obtain bulkhead or emergency seating. It's hard to give up. There are just too many exigencies where United fails its customers and employees. United has a horrific corporate culture and even their own employees have no respect for management. What happened in Louisville is when the billion dollar corporate culture of NO meets the 300 dollar culture of NO. No contest. I revel when United screws up because they are just plain nasty.
This incident happened on Republic Airlines. They are a United Express carrier. None of the employees work for UA. They do not follow UA procedures. Unfortunately UA decided to outsource to them.
2
I wondered when someone would point this out.
So what? If you arae trying to de-escalate UAL's responsibility in this matter it doesn't work. When UAL bought Republic they made Republic and it's satellite businesses UAL. it's that simple.
I've said it before. I'll say it again. Why are airlines permitted to oversell in the first place? In what business can you sell the same product twice to different people? Maybe my local NHL team should take the lead from airlines and figure out how many folks statistically don't come to games. Then they can double sell some seats and make even more money!
My point is that if the seat is already bought and paid for, what difference does it make if no one is actually sitting in it when the plane takes off? The airlines just want to make even more money than they already are. It's the modern capitalist way...when maximizing profits is the only consideration. And this is the result. Paying customers are assaulted.
My point is that if the seat is already bought and paid for, what difference does it make if no one is actually sitting in it when the plane takes off? The airlines just want to make even more money than they already are. It's the modern capitalist way...when maximizing profits is the only consideration. And this is the result. Paying customers are assaulted.
4
Mark, great analogy!
The airlines are just greedy monsters and they have their statistics whizzes counting on no-shows to maximize profits, but now we live in the age of cell phone cams and the internet so the gig is up. Hopefully next time a passenger is threatened with expulsion, another passenger will stand up and say "I am Spartacus," and then another and another. (Folks, see the movie if the reference eludes you).
The airlines are just greedy monsters and they have their statistics whizzes counting on no-shows to maximize profits, but now we live in the age of cell phone cams and the internet so the gig is up. Hopefully next time a passenger is threatened with expulsion, another passenger will stand up and say "I am Spartacus," and then another and another. (Folks, see the movie if the reference eludes you).
It is probably time to break up United Airlines into two or three smaller airlines. No one should be stuck with no option but to fly on such an arrogant monster.
Also, if your airlines has sold you a ticket, and allowed you to board, it should be against the law to forcefully evict them due to some notion of overselling the plane.
Also, if your airlines has sold you a ticket, and allowed you to board, it should be against the law to forcefully evict them due to some notion of overselling the plane.
6
Airlines have become 'Cattlelines!' That is how humans are stuffed in impossible slots of plastic and rubber traps. During the course they're fed small 'treats' to make them feel obliged! Under the guise of safety & economy, they have made us into nothing more than cargo parcels, as earlier comment has noted.
Just see the United CEO response, adding insult to injury, he tried to shamelessly defend this unthinkable barbaric removal of an elderly human from his aircraft. It is time all the involved should be ejected in the same manner as this unfortunate passenger was. United does not deserve to operate with such attitude in truly open market economy. I know, it lost my buck!
Just see the United CEO response, adding insult to injury, he tried to shamelessly defend this unthinkable barbaric removal of an elderly human from his aircraft. It is time all the involved should be ejected in the same manner as this unfortunate passenger was. United does not deserve to operate with such attitude in truly open market economy. I know, it lost my buck!
4
Does Rule 25 cover the airlines right to deny BOARDING to ticketed passengers dues to overbooking? Does it actually apply once an aircraft has been boarded?
United apparently failed to try the obvious ploy of offering the full $1,350 per passenger IN CASH (not vouchers which are worth somewhat less than face value in practice) to induce passengers to fly the next morning. As a consequence, the cost to the company exceeds $5,400 by a considerable multiple (two orders of magnitude at least).
In short, UA management was plainly stupid in this instance.
United apparently failed to try the obvious ploy of offering the full $1,350 per passenger IN CASH (not vouchers which are worth somewhat less than face value in practice) to induce passengers to fly the next morning. As a consequence, the cost to the company exceeds $5,400 by a considerable multiple (two orders of magnitude at least).
In short, UA management was plainly stupid in this instance.
6
Mr. Munoz needs to go. Period.
6
So why is it about race? Who cares if they are black, white, yellow, red or purple?
It is about respect. I had no idea the practice of bumping paying customers to fly crew around the country happened. It is beyond comprehension that you remove 4 customers from a plane to shuttle employees around, sounds like poor planning on Uniteds part.
I will never fly United and encourage friends and coworkers to avoid them as well.
Respect.
It is about respect. I had no idea the practice of bumping paying customers to fly crew around the country happened. It is beyond comprehension that you remove 4 customers from a plane to shuttle employees around, sounds like poor planning on Uniteds part.
I will never fly United and encourage friends and coworkers to avoid them as well.
Respect.
6
Big business rules. Who cares about us dispensible little people? Well, maybe the people have power, after all. We have social media and don't have to fly with your airline. My worst flying experience was with United when my husband and I were barely allowed to board because of their gross incompetence. No admission of their error; instead, I was publicly scolded. This upcoming vacation, my husband and I are driving.
United's disdain for consumers is a larger industry pattern. Let's see: Wells Fargo, big pharma, healthcare, on and on. As for apology, Munoz uses the Sean Spicer template. Deny, deny bigger, deny bigly until you just can't get away with the lies.
United's disdain for consumers is a larger industry pattern. Let's see: Wells Fargo, big pharma, healthcare, on and on. As for apology, Munoz uses the Sean Spicer template. Deny, deny bigger, deny bigly until you just can't get away with the lies.
5
"United’s website says that when the airline cannot find volunteers, it will “deny boarding to passengers in accordance with our written policy on boarding priority.” Ms. McCarthy would not share the written policy.
She said its agents follow a protocol for determining who will be selected, aiming to avoid families traveling together and unaccompanied minors. United also tends to protect people with connecting flights, those with mileage status through frequent flier or credit card programs, fare buckets and “a whole number of things,” she said.
Ms. McCarthy said the protocol was followed on Dr. Dao’s flight. Three passengers got off the plane. But Dr. Dao did not give up his seat, and he was forcibly removed — dragged down the airplane aisle, his glasses askew, face bloodied — by several security officers."
He wan not denied boarding. He was boarded and in his seat. Exactly WHAT protocol was followed?
She said its agents follow a protocol for determining who will be selected, aiming to avoid families traveling together and unaccompanied minors. United also tends to protect people with connecting flights, those with mileage status through frequent flier or credit card programs, fare buckets and “a whole number of things,” she said.
Ms. McCarthy said the protocol was followed on Dr. Dao’s flight. Three passengers got off the plane. But Dr. Dao did not give up his seat, and he was forcibly removed — dragged down the airplane aisle, his glasses askew, face bloodied — by several security officers."
He wan not denied boarding. He was boarded and in his seat. Exactly WHAT protocol was followed?
8
What kind of algorithm picks a 69 year old to kick off a plane? They're lucky he didn't have a stroke or heart attack and die. Then Munoz' job would be the least of his worries, and they'd have to change United's name to Amnesia Airlines to get bookings.
United should have a special class of ticket/price which defines the risk. You are at risk of being deplaned at our discretion. It may help in getting fares higher and expectations appropriate.
Wonder how the United personnel, I assume stewardesses, felt when they took their seats.
Puts a realistic face on "Friendly Skies" ads.
Wonder how the United personnel, I assume stewardesses, felt when they took their seats.
Puts a realistic face on "Friendly Skies" ads.
4
You know, I have been thinking the same thing. How did the employee who sat in his seat feel? Personally, I would have been inclined to say "I can drive. It's only 4.5 hours." Would I have WANTED to? Would I have PREFERRED to fly? I have built a career on customer service and know that customer satisfaction sometimes comes with a slight inconvenience to myself, but that's my job and my satisfaction comes from a job well done. I wonder if just one of the United employees would have preferred a little inconvenience for this doctor to make it to his patients.
4
When was the last time you could book a seat and not pay for it in advance? The airlines say they are protecting themselves from non-shows. Why? No-shows cost them nothing. The seats are paid for...maybe it's the extras. If I rent a home and don't live in it, the landlord cant "re-rent" during my lease. Technically, am I not renting that seat once I pay for it.
Some really good attorney could change this rule.
Some really good attorney could change this rule.
5
Bye bye United. This kind of horrible treatment without intervention by ANY United personnel speaks very very poorly about United training and Employee selection policies.
4
Mr. Munoz must be extremely stubborn and tone-deaf as a matter of course, or he's extremely isolated and ignorant of social media, or both.
For someone in the business of customer service--because that is ultimately what an airline is in the business of--he is terrible at interacting with the public, thereby creating a much bigger PR crisis than would've resulted otherwise. I hope United shareholders and the board of directors are paying attention and looking around for better managerial talent if Mr. Munoz does not reform his terrible instincts when it comes to public outreach.
Mr. Munoz should also get a Facebook account and he should have an underling check it assiduously. This scandal spread like wildfire on Facebook--my feed was literally monopolized by it for a few hours yesterday. I think Mr. Munoz would've reacted with the appropriate alarm if he had seen the outrage I had seen.
For someone in the business of customer service--because that is ultimately what an airline is in the business of--he is terrible at interacting with the public, thereby creating a much bigger PR crisis than would've resulted otherwise. I hope United shareholders and the board of directors are paying attention and looking around for better managerial talent if Mr. Munoz does not reform his terrible instincts when it comes to public outreach.
Mr. Munoz should also get a Facebook account and he should have an underling check it assiduously. This scandal spread like wildfire on Facebook--my feed was literally monopolized by it for a few hours yesterday. I think Mr. Munoz would've reacted with the appropriate alarm if he had seen the outrage I had seen.
United has been my go to airline for many years. Although the expectations for a comfortable, flawless flight has diminished over the years, it has come to be the new norm. My worst experience up to this point has been when my wife and I and all the passengers were already boarded and on a plane, we were then told we had to leave as there was no crew to fly the plane. 3 1/2 hours later a crew finally showed up. They explained they were not scheduled but were put together as an emergency crew. My experince pales by this action of physically removing a passenger. All I can say is: Don't tase me bro.
4
Flown somewhere and then gotten sick? If not you're either lucky or have great immunity. Now that planes have Jammed in more seats, even removing mid plane restrooms to cram seats in, I'm think their air filtration is on overload, that and they aren't changing/cleaning the filters. On I recent flight I couldn't get to the only economy bathrooms in the tail (with a line) due to the drinks cart blocking the aisle, so I snuck under the first class curtain and used theirs, prepared for a battle royal. Whew! Relief and no battle. But don't try it or you may be bodily dragged out of the head and spanked.
What happened to the law of supply and demand? Corporations don't need to deal with laws of man nor nature. They have their brown shirts to enforce their profits.
4
Anyone want to lay bets on how long it takes United to change their customer policies to require all cell phones to be turned off before boarding? For this tone-deaf company the issue seems to be that it got caught assaulting a customer, not that it actually happened.
And how about the fun-house mirror effect of the United rep saying that it followed it's written policy in removing the paying passengers, but then refusing to provide that written policy to the NYT reporter? Really? The written policy is a secret, I guess. And I thought capitalism was based on transparency in the marketplace.
I hope Mr. Dao's horror will lead to legislation that protects passengers' rights; that legislation is long overdue.
And how about the fun-house mirror effect of the United rep saying that it followed it's written policy in removing the paying passengers, but then refusing to provide that written policy to the NYT reporter? Really? The written policy is a secret, I guess. And I thought capitalism was based on transparency in the marketplace.
I hope Mr. Dao's horror will lead to legislation that protects passengers' rights; that legislation is long overdue.
No threat of violence by the passenger, and excessive use of force by the airline's police. Then we have an attempted justification by UA of the rogue acts of its police force acting on UA's behalf-an affirmation. Oops. Then they libel the client by digging up some non-related dirt on him. How many millions will this cost them? The world will never know. Then the bandaid on the aorta "sorry we got caught" apology. The trouble is they are only thinking of the money it will cost them and not the goodwill. Do *not* ever cue Rhapsody in Blue again.
Your headline called this event a PR crisis. Wrong. It is a management crisis. Competent management would develop an overbooking strategy that did not require forcing passengers off a plane (either physically or by intimidation) against their will. It might cost more money to induce passengers to give up their seats voluntarily, but one should be able to build that into the booking algorithm. United needs to hire more intelligent strategists and fewer PR folk.
After two less-than-happy experiences flying on United and having the feeling I was being exploited, I avoided that airline. This incident solidifies my resolve. Why couldn't the flight crew that was imposed on this flight with such urgency that paying, seated customers were bumped and dragged out...why weren't the 4 crew members given a rental car to make the 5 or 6 hr drive to St. Louis?
4
This is a glaring consequence of corporate greed. Companies need to make number one the goal of providing for an excellent customer experience as opposed to squeezing every penny out of each seat. Disgraceful.
I don't know. When police tell me to do something, I do it. If an airline, TSA personnel, or custom agent tells me something I do it. What was all those hysterics about? The guy sounds like an idiot to me.
This reminds me of how Blockbuster died. It wasn't just because of Netflix. It was because of the late fees. Everyone was sick of it and when a competitor came alone that didn't charge one, everyone bailed. Everyone who has an air travel horror story will now take it all out on United by bailing as well. This video resonated with everyone emotionally. And the absolutely insincere apology from the CEO after -$1,000,000,000 in market value only made things worse. I bet the stock will continue to tank and Singapore Airlines or one of the other highly rated airlines will "re-accommodate" United for $20/share or less in about six months. What a disaster. As the saying goes, they literally only had to do one job, and their horribly toxic culture screwed it up and killed the company.
4
"No one should ever be mistreated this way." How should they be mistreated? United needs a new PR department. A grammar coach wouldn't hurt either.
I think this whole problem could be resolved if the airlines would always have 4 or 5 seats reserved specifically for their employees. They could go to non-employees if employees don't need them.
It's so simple! The airlines all, United especially, need to start caring more for their customers and stop being so damn greedy!
I, for one, do not accept the forced and unsincere apology!
It's so simple! The airlines all, United especially, need to start caring more for their customers and stop being so damn greedy!
I, for one, do not accept the forced and unsincere apology!
3
This is such nonsense ... simply don't fly United if this is how your going to be treated... WOW the outrage .. Let it rest... Get involved is things that matter... Then again this is the NY TIMES spin and the folks who read it
I am really happy that United is being seen as it should! The worst customer service I've ever experienced in an airline. Once, I purchased the economy plus ticket to be able to sit in the front row with my 6 months old baby. They gave my already paid and reserved seat to another person and I refused to take another seat. They called security!! For a mom with a 6 month baby inside the carrier! Insane! Luckily I stop flying with them. I had so many bad experiences with this company! And I am glad this is finally known!
Dear Mr. Munoz,
Your insensitivity angered me. How could you treat paying customers the way you did!!! You should know better that customer's satisfaction is the key to returning customers. I must tell you that I will never fly your Airlines anymore even if it is the last one left. I will also inform my investment manager to dump your company's shares.
Your insensitivity angered me. How could you treat paying customers the way you did!!! You should know better that customer's satisfaction is the key to returning customers. I must tell you that I will never fly your Airlines anymore even if it is the last one left. I will also inform my investment manager to dump your company's shares.
2
Mr. President, for a change there is an executive order that will immediately boost your polarity by 100%, Issue an executive order banning airline companies from overbooking their seats and fine them in millions of dollars for each incidents.
In addition to showing better judgement in its choice of Communicator of the Year, PR Week might think of hiring a copy editor with some grammar chops. It's *were* choosing, not was.
I'd hate to offend you anarchist liberals who think protesting and destroying property is another normal part of life. I'm pretty sure no one read that this particular belligerent passenger who must have complied with the rules and regulation is a convicted felon and a sexual deviant who had to undergo anger management classes in the past.
Really.. BOYCOTT UNITED!!! Send a message to these profit gluttons. Consumers are being held hostage by the airline companies and their insatiable demand for more and more profits. Unless you absolutely have to fly somewhere, then DON'T! Used to be that you had some legroom, could check a bag and get a decent meal. Now basic human decency has been dispensed with. Mr. Munoz should be fired! Dr. Dao should definitely sue United Airlines and I hope he gets a whopping big settlement. Consumers have quite a bit of power if they band together. Let's let United and all the airline companies know that we demand more respect and better treatment. Meanwhile, how 'bout that infrastructure program Donald? America needs highspeed rail! Oh, but wait, the money is getting spend on a damn wall. Dang!
1
The UAL "apology" is just blah, blah, blah. The aim is to make this go away and it will be back to business as usual once they get past it. It's time to refuse to patronize companies like this, which is really the only weapon we have. Airline travel is unpleasant enough without being assaulted for not agreeing to give up a seat that one paid for.
2
What no one speaks of in this discussion of "newspeak" and "oldspeak" and "politically correct" speech is the "LAWSPEAK". There are two set of laws being totally ignored in this discussion. First, there is contract law. No one ever reads their ticketing agreement but the airline has a contractual right to pull a passenger off of a flight for any reason they wish. If you don't like the agreement either negotiate another one (good luck with that) or don't fly. (We as passengers should unite, pun intended, and demand that ticketing contracts be changed).
The second law is based in maritime law and has been in effect for centuries. The chain of command on board a vessel is:
1. God.
2. The Captain.
You may not want to obey God but by god you will obey the Captain. If a passenger or crew member refuses a lawful order (and whether you like it or not the order to leave the plane was 100% lawful) the Captain is legally allowed to enforce compliance with the use of large, armed men. Case law further insulates the enforcement agents, Captain, and company from liability if the rebellious passenger is injured while resisting.
I have sailed to many far away ports and I have forcefully disembarked a few who did not understand that the orders of the Captain may not be disobeyed except under the most morally precise circumstances. In this case, the power of public opinion will be far more punishing than the power of the law. United has a very large PR problem but not much of a legal one.
The second law is based in maritime law and has been in effect for centuries. The chain of command on board a vessel is:
1. God.
2. The Captain.
You may not want to obey God but by god you will obey the Captain. If a passenger or crew member refuses a lawful order (and whether you like it or not the order to leave the plane was 100% lawful) the Captain is legally allowed to enforce compliance with the use of large, armed men. Case law further insulates the enforcement agents, Captain, and company from liability if the rebellious passenger is injured while resisting.
I have sailed to many far away ports and I have forcefully disembarked a few who did not understand that the orders of the Captain may not be disobeyed except under the most morally precise circumstances. In this case, the power of public opinion will be far more punishing than the power of the law. United has a very large PR problem but not much of a legal one.
The over booking policies are unacceptable given that they get paid for each seat sold regardless of whether passenger flies. So no show is still money for them. Therefore zero justified in selling more tickets than seats. The way they they treated this man outrageous and they deserve this fallout. Claims of "racism" are a stretch. I don't think he was targeted because he was Asian. Is every time a non-Caucasian involved racism? Give me a break.
1
Horrible. United is now on my no fly list. This is inexcusable. Bankruptcy, or a life sentence of sitting in United economy class, for the execs and all involved. Pathetic .
3
Any chance the NYT could do some REAL reporting? He's not "Asian", he's an American of Apparently Asian descent. Despite trying to create an international incident, he is Vietnamese not Chinese so apparently both the media AND the Chinese are race baiters. Finally, he is an ex-con with a history of mental problems who lost his license to practice medicine after being convicted in a drugs for sex scheme. So, maybe if we consider the situation--he disobeyed a direct order to disembark by a duly authorized official, secondly, he has a history of non compliance with authorities, and three the safety of the other 137 passengers could have been compromised, maybe then we get an accurate picture--not just a video after the facts.
Mr. Nunez' email address:
[email protected]
It's publicly available. Why not tell him what you think directly?
[email protected]
It's publicly available. Why not tell him what you think directly?
2
This was inevitable. United's algorithm for max number of seats to sell has to be updated to subtract seats for employee transfers.
Duh. Logistics 1-0-1.
Duh. Logistics 1-0-1.
Two things:
1. United did not ``deny boarding" to the passenger in this case. Rather, he was allowed to board, and only involuntary removed from the flight after that. I don't see anything in United's ``Contract of Carriage"
https://www.united.com/web/en-US/content/contract-of-carriage.aspx#sec25
that allows them to do that.
2. The flight was NOT overbooked or oversold. Rather, after regular boarding was completed, united wanted to remove 4 passengers to accommodate 4 of United's employees who did not actually have tickets. Again, I don't see anything in United's ``Contract of Carriage" that allows United to do that.
1. United did not ``deny boarding" to the passenger in this case. Rather, he was allowed to board, and only involuntary removed from the flight after that. I don't see anything in United's ``Contract of Carriage"
https://www.united.com/web/en-US/content/contract-of-carriage.aspx#sec25
that allows them to do that.
2. The flight was NOT overbooked or oversold. Rather, after regular boarding was completed, united wanted to remove 4 passengers to accommodate 4 of United's employees who did not actually have tickets. Again, I don't see anything in United's ``Contract of Carriage" that allows United to do that.
perhaps the reason Dr. Dao was violently removed from UAL Flight 3411 was the doctor may have been wearing lycra leggings underneath his pants, which is in strict violation of UAL's dress code. CEO Munoz not only has a strict "overbooking" policy that requires forceful removal of violators but is extremely adamant against passengers wearing lycra leggings.
It's unclear if the same passenger removal procedures for overbooking applies to lycra leggings dress code violators.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/26/us/united-airlines-leggings.html
It's unclear if the same passenger removal procedures for overbooking applies to lycra leggings dress code violators.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/26/us/united-airlines-leggings.html
2
People around the world are cutting up their United Airlines loyalty cards in a mass boycott after a shocking video clip emerged showing a passenger being dragged down the aisle.
More than 50,000 people have so far signed a petition entitled Chinese Lives Matter calling for a US federal investigation into the airline following accusations of racism.
The passenger, who is thought to be a doctor, was pulled from his seat and hauled down the aisle by security staff after a flight from Chicago to Louisville had been overbooked.
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/united-airlines-thousands-sign-chin...
More than 50,000 people have so far signed a petition entitled Chinese Lives Matter calling for a US federal investigation into the airline following accusations of racism.
The passenger, who is thought to be a doctor, was pulled from his seat and hauled down the aisle by security staff after a flight from Chicago to Louisville had been overbooked.
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/united-airlines-thousands-sign-chin...
1
There must be a special school out there for United Airlines attendants where they train obnoxious behavior. Those people came all out with A+ degrees...
United is also known for breaking guitars:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Breaks_Guitars
When I book, I make efforts to avoid them (not always possible).
United is also known for breaking guitars:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Breaks_Guitars
When I book, I make efforts to avoid them (not always possible).
1
Oscar Muñoz, CEO of United Airlines-- the buck stops right on your footsteps.
The buck encompasses nasty stewards, stewardesses, impoliteness, unprofessional behavior like gabbing amongst themselves while passengers are trying to get their attention for some service-- either pick up the trash sitting around for more than an hour, etc.
ceos like you have milked us, bilked us of disservice for years, treated us like cattle- packing into smelly, broken, disgusting coach class seats; while you charged for every single thing of substandard food/ service. Basta! Enough!
And now this-- dragging a paid passenger off his seat like a hog-tied pig is the last straw. That could have been me or my daughter.
The buck encompasses nasty stewards, stewardesses, impoliteness, unprofessional behavior like gabbing amongst themselves while passengers are trying to get their attention for some service-- either pick up the trash sitting around for more than an hour, etc.
ceos like you have milked us, bilked us of disservice for years, treated us like cattle- packing into smelly, broken, disgusting coach class seats; while you charged for every single thing of substandard food/ service. Basta! Enough!
And now this-- dragging a paid passenger off his seat like a hog-tied pig is the last straw. That could have been me or my daughter.
1
UA is so bad these days, especially since the Continental merger. Nickel and diming passengers (thank you FTC/DOT, whomever).
Overbooking should be outlawed. US and most Euro airlines just suck.
Overbooking should be outlawed. US and most Euro airlines just suck.
A few years ago my family and I were bumped off an AA flight. We had an 18 month old! I have never flown American again. Similarly, I will never fly United again having seen this video. There are alternatives! Alaskan, for example.
We have (some) power as consumers. I am never going to buy a Volkswagen or an Audi, not after their diabolical behavior, no way. I have a conscience and I have ethical standards and my purchases reflect them.
We have (some) power as consumers. I am never going to buy a Volkswagen or an Audi, not after their diabolical behavior, no way. I have a conscience and I have ethical standards and my purchases reflect them.
The new standard for airline travel is if you don't obey us we will sic the TSA on you, strip-search you, or if we must - drag you from your seat with total disregard for your personal safety.
There is absolutely nothing that can be done to dislodge such a horrific video from the minds of travellers. It will ensure compliance if nothing else.
In other news, Trump and the GOP are not in favour of the DOL fiduciary rile that (in essence) investment advisors don't need to provide advice that is in the best interests of their clients. Really - paid advisors? I see a trend.
There is absolutely nothing that can be done to dislodge such a horrific video from the minds of travellers. It will ensure compliance if nothing else.
In other news, Trump and the GOP are not in favour of the DOL fiduciary rile that (in essence) investment advisors don't need to provide advice that is in the best interests of their clients. Really - paid advisors? I see a trend.
7
When you buy an airline ticket you enter into a contract with the airline-- they will provide a service in exchange of your money ( look at the back of the ticket for all that legal contract language). The airline may offer you money to cancel the contract; and you may, at your choice, cancel the contract. But you may also refuse to cancel the contract, and expect the airline to honor the contract. The airline has no legal right to abrogate the contract by throwing you off the plane. Simple contract law.
13
Sorry my friend, but it is not that simple. The airline has the right to cancel the contract just like a store or restaurant has the right to refuse service.
Airlines overbook because people don't show up. If everyone stuck to their contract and made their flights this problem would not be happening.
This mess is not really UA anyway. UA outsources to United Express. This was a company called Republic Airlines. They have a checkered past at best. No UA employees were involved. Why UA does not point this out is a mystery.
Airlines overbook because people don't show up. If everyone stuck to their contract and made their flights this problem would not be happening.
This mess is not really UA anyway. UA outsources to United Express. This was a company called Republic Airlines. They have a checkered past at best. No UA employees were involved. Why UA does not point this out is a mystery.
1
"The airline has the right to cancel the contract just like a store or restaurant has the right to refuse service."
Not the same.. When you go to a restaurant you do not have a contract for dinner. You are mere a licensee. You have permission to the premises. A restaurant can't refuse service to 2 of you because 4 turn up for dinner.
Not the same.. When you go to a restaurant you do not have a contract for dinner. You are mere a licensee. You have permission to the premises. A restaurant can't refuse service to 2 of you because 4 turn up for dinner.
1
part of my comment got lost. A restaurant can refuse device if you are not wearing a coat and tie as that is part of the license agreement. But those restriction have to be posted in advance so you know the rule before you arrive.
1
So it appears that United now has a PR crisis!?!. How they care about the way they look to the world is obviously more important to them than treating people properly. I would suggest that if they cared about basic human decency in the first place, they wouldn't need to now hire a PR firm!
10
By a show of hands, how many remember what flying used to be like a few years ago? No charge for luggage, free food (even for short flights!), stewards actually happy to greet you at the door, more leg room, free blankets and pillows.
The good ol' days. When the airlines actually had to COMPETE for our business. I agree with a reader who posted the other day that she would rather drive 11 hours in her car than be subjected to the despicable way passengers are treated nowadays, whether or not they are dragged off the plane like the doc was.
Sounds good to me.
The good ol' days. When the airlines actually had to COMPETE for our business. I agree with a reader who posted the other day that she would rather drive 11 hours in her car than be subjected to the despicable way passengers are treated nowadays, whether or not they are dragged off the plane like the doc was.
Sounds good to me.
8
I'll never book a trip on United again, price does not matter. You guys blew it big time!
8
Who was it who said that greed in the United States will swallow up democracy? Maximizing profits - is there any company that just wants to make a reasonable profit? What is the sickness in this country about money? We are not the consumers. We are being eaten alive by profits.
10
Pass a law that bumped passengers will receive NO LESS than ten times the value they paid for for their ticket.
Problem solved.
Problem solved.
6
outrageous. if the airline wanted to bump someone, they should have done it before the passenger boarded the flight. i will never fly united airlines again
5
I have not seen any information on when "volunteers" could expect to be "re-accommodated" on another flight. In the past, when airlines offered several flights to destinations, volunteers rushed to the desk for the free tickets for future travel. I think people do not want to volunteer today, not because they're selfish, but because they know they might not be able to get another flight for days, not hours. Fewer, always full, often overbooked, flights have resulted in all the other problems passengers experience. There is no room to accommodate any situation. And because of industry consolidation those who sincerely want to express their outrage by boycotting United may find they cannot because no else flies where they need to go. Meanwhile, airline executives and board members never experience what we do.
5
Also missing from the article is the aggravation one has to go through to get to the boarding gate. Arrive hours early before the flight then go through TSA. As for Dr. Dao I read that he originally did agree to give up his seat then he realized the other flight he would get won't allow him to get back in time to attend to his patients on Monday morning.
The last time I flew United was going to Hong Kong in December 2009. When I tried to check in at the kiosk at JFK it told me to see the agent. I had an aisle seat. When I got to the counter they changed my seat and put me in the middle of two girls, who did not speak English, flying non-stop for 15 and 1/2 hours. Then before my connecting flight to Manila United had their own version of TSA that put me through a security charade removing my shoes, searching through my carry-on even though I never left the airport and I went through security at JFK. Looking at the news the very next day I saw that United was in the news where a young man, now known as the underwear bomber tried to blow up the plane over Detroit.
Contrast that to the last time I flew to Asia I used Japan Airline. The lady at the check-in told me she will put me in an exit seat. After being settled into the exit seat a Japanese flight attendant came up to me and asked me if in the event of an emergency I will be willing to help open the door? I said "of course." Upon which she took a deep bow. I can't imagine United flight attendants being that salutary.
The last time I flew United was going to Hong Kong in December 2009. When I tried to check in at the kiosk at JFK it told me to see the agent. I had an aisle seat. When I got to the counter they changed my seat and put me in the middle of two girls, who did not speak English, flying non-stop for 15 and 1/2 hours. Then before my connecting flight to Manila United had their own version of TSA that put me through a security charade removing my shoes, searching through my carry-on even though I never left the airport and I went through security at JFK. Looking at the news the very next day I saw that United was in the news where a young man, now known as the underwear bomber tried to blow up the plane over Detroit.
Contrast that to the last time I flew to Asia I used Japan Airline. The lady at the check-in told me she will put me in an exit seat. After being settled into the exit seat a Japanese flight attendant came up to me and asked me if in the event of an emergency I will be willing to help open the door? I said "of course." Upon which she took a deep bow. I can't imagine United flight attendants being that salutary.
3
Making it right should involve Mr Munoz resigning. I know I am not flying again. The passenger had boarded already so he was not being "denied boarding". This looks like pure breach of contract enforced by violence. I expect better from companies I do business with. The CEO's head needs to be on a metaphorical pike for me to fly that airline again.
7
My 10 year old daughter and I are travelling to USA on a group tour with her dance school. After this and I was relieved to see that our flights are with Qantas and American Airlines. But for when we have to go visit other places not part of the tour there is no way I would consider flying United. However, leaving this incident as a total outlier of nightmares the comments flowing on social media, flying in the US appears as if its often a major hassle and chore. Especially those comments about United. Rather than the customer being the centre of why they exist they appear to be treated as a nuiscance for basic passenger needs and services.
Why are there so many flights being overbooked? Is it necessary to overbook a flight? What if you made reservations at a restaurant, was seated and ready to be served your food and the server came to you and said "you have to give up your table because your table was double booked"? Would you give up your table? I don't think so. So airlines get with it, do some "oversight" on your "overbooking".
6
Mr. Munoz had an opportunity to "make it right" and he blew it. It's too late now... he should step down. As I said before... I will NEVER fly United Airlines again. NEVER.
Lessons we should have already known:
Everything a brand does to someone WILL be videoed.
There WILL be an activist waiting for the video to to pump up their job and the folks they pretend to represent. They WILL threaten anyone buying from you.
The media gets their views from sensational "breaking news" -- if the "news" is of a Democrat voting base, multiply by 10.
Everything a brand does to someone WILL be videoed.
There WILL be an activist waiting for the video to to pump up their job and the folks they pretend to represent. They WILL threaten anyone buying from you.
The media gets their views from sensational "breaking news" -- if the "news" is of a Democrat voting base, multiply by 10.
So much for United. I have been flying a lot lately; and I will never warm a seat in one of their airplanes again. This is such a gross example of corporate arrogance, where making a buck overrides common decency. And corporations are supposed to be people? Perhaps UAL fits in that category of people we call hoodlums.
6
Everything that needs to be said has been said. I will not fly United any more. I used to fly the non-stop from Newark to Delhi, will take Emirates which means an additional stop in Dubai. No problem, will handle the stop and retain my dignity.
5
United already has a better solution. They should have done what they did to my daughter that same day as she returned from Dublin to Washington: cynically assign sufficient passengers for the infamous "SSS," "selected for secondary screening", then make sure the hapless airport security people take their sweet time in "processing" them, keep up the illusion that the flight will wait for them (to minimize urging on the passengers' part to speed up the process) then simply make sure the flight leaves exactly on time, so that the selected passengers cannot even get to the gate in time. That way, no complaining or carrying on at the gate, no calling the police, no dragging passengers off the aircraft, and, best of all, no compensation to be paid to these unwitting "volunteers"! Genius, n'est-ce pas?!
9
Three other passengers got off, got some money and the next flight. Only this guy felt "entitled" enough (because he's a doctor?) and refused. He deserved exactly what he got.
2
Amen!
Hello
I don't think he was being entitled . From one video it appears he had patients scheduled the next day. As a physician myself I am always nervous about delayed flights because I have patients scheduled and don't want to cancel them- especially if they have waited a long time to be seen or are very sick. Imagine all his patients who couldn't be seen now because of United
I don't think he was being entitled . From one video it appears he had patients scheduled the next day. As a physician myself I am always nervous about delayed flights because I have patients scheduled and don't want to cancel them- especially if they have waited a long time to be seen or are very sick. Imagine all his patients who couldn't be seen now because of United
Read the comments and get the full story . The option would not have gotten him
Back on time for his meetings do he refused
The question is why did united have to get 4 p crew on a short notice to Louisville . If this is a scheduled op then united probably screwed up
Subu
Back on time for his meetings do he refused
The question is why did united have to get 4 p crew on a short notice to Louisville . If this is a scheduled op then united probably screwed up
Subu
Please, please, please let the CEO of United come to my restaurant. We have a new policy related to heads of companies that rough up customers rather than offer more than $800 cash. If he objects then we send out some non apologies and act like inhuman monsters.
8
So the industry decided long ago that a good biz strategy is to lie to customer and sell what they don't have. Our rotten vile gov't who ONLY caters to big business's and loves using violence against any perceived offense. I think it's time for a huge class action put them out of business law suit and maybe the airlines will get out of the "hate all customers" business.
6
I am astounded by Delta's apparent lack of common sense. It couldn't possibly escape the consequences of its act of brutality.
America is just not a under developed country under a tin pot dictator. Its communications landscape is highly dense, complex, and highly participatory, with the networked population gaining greater access to information, more opportunities to engage in public speech, and an enhanced ability to undertake collective action. Naturally these increased freedoms helps in coordinated demand for accountability, allowing people to privately and publicly articulate and debate a welter of conflicting views.
Delta management team ought to have read Warren Buffet “It takes years to build a reputation and five minutes to ruin it. If you think about that, you'll do things differently.”
America is just not a under developed country under a tin pot dictator. Its communications landscape is highly dense, complex, and highly participatory, with the networked population gaining greater access to information, more opportunities to engage in public speech, and an enhanced ability to undertake collective action. Naturally these increased freedoms helps in coordinated demand for accountability, allowing people to privately and publicly articulate and debate a welter of conflicting views.
Delta management team ought to have read Warren Buffet “It takes years to build a reputation and five minutes to ruin it. If you think about that, you'll do things differently.”
2
This was United Airlines. Nothing to do with Delta.
You mean United, not Delta.
Yes, it is United. Deeply regret the error!
After this incident I will avoid United airlines at all cost. Fortunately we still have South West airlines servicing Houston. I will choose a stop over the high price and poor service of United. SW has such cool people i doubt i will get dragged out the airplane. United airline is losing my frequent business.
5
What ever happened to "flying the friendly skies of United?" Apparently, that feature requires an upgrade and is longer included free of charge. The image of the Gestapo removal of that Asian doctor is what lawful disagreement gets you in the airline industry these days (What would United have done if the doctor had outbid the interloper, given him a seat in the cockpit?). Is this a case of: white green = right? These incidents highlight the sense of helplessness hovering over the American public these days; kind of like the evil and the most ignorant electing a lunatic to run your country.
Whether you realize it or not the airlines can hold you hostage (at great cost). This incident also suggests they can subject you to humiliation, water boarding, and torture as well. Remember the unconscionable delays on the tarmac without explanations? Not to mention the blow to those teenage girls' self esteem for their unwitting fashion faux pas and international embarrassment (Hey United, just publish your clothing requirements at the time of ticket purchase! Or are passengers expected to wear uniforms like employees?).
What we do know is that Oscar Munoz needs to be "re accommodated" out of a job for his pathetic facsimile of an apology and draconian policies. Fire a shot across the industry's bow. I guess Trump was right. There really are some bad hombres out there.
Whether you realize it or not the airlines can hold you hostage (at great cost). This incident also suggests they can subject you to humiliation, water boarding, and torture as well. Remember the unconscionable delays on the tarmac without explanations? Not to mention the blow to those teenage girls' self esteem for their unwitting fashion faux pas and international embarrassment (Hey United, just publish your clothing requirements at the time of ticket purchase! Or are passengers expected to wear uniforms like employees?).
What we do know is that Oscar Munoz needs to be "re accommodated" out of a job for his pathetic facsimile of an apology and draconian policies. Fire a shot across the industry's bow. I guess Trump was right. There really are some bad hombres out there.
1
We, the people, the flying public have been subjected to numerous impoliteness to abject nastiness by the attending crew, ground crew, airline officers, etc.
Never think everyone of us will never ever have to experience this. With the constant ripping away of daily civility, this is another line that was crossed by the airlines.
We need a people's march against all
these inhumane, uncivilized behavior by the authorities, airlines, corporations.
Never think everyone of us will never ever have to experience this. With the constant ripping away of daily civility, this is another line that was crossed by the airlines.
We need a people's march against all
these inhumane, uncivilized behavior by the authorities, airlines, corporations.
1
This is appalling! No matter what the United Airlines policy is, this mistreatment of a passenger is completely unacceptable. They should not overbook the way they do and should treat all passengers with respect and decency.
The Democrats break up the monopolies ... and the Republicans put them back together again. Remember "Ma Bell"?
They're BACK !!!
They're BACK !!!
5
Unfortunately more mergers occurred during Obama Clinton years than others. Rather than being partisan the correct word is politicians catering to money
I don't believe United overbooked this flight. After all the paying passengers were accommodated they decided they needed four of those seats for a United crew, non paying, that they needed in position at the terminating airport. So not sure they overbooked. They just wanted those seats for themselves, not other paying passengers. More's the shame. And yes, Oscar the grouch showed his bad hand throughout the whole day. I actually will avoid United in the future.
1
For shame. This was an easily avoidable situation -- not an action of last resort. United didn't offer enough incentive. The overbooking was United's doing. One of the costs of that business model should be compensation to inconvenienced passengers. Most everyone has a price for which they would willingly be bumped. United's cheapness will cost them more than an offer of compensation sufficient to get a volunteer to wait for a future flight. How much could that possibly have detracted from their bottom line. Sorry I am already booked on one of their flights. I've dealt with unpleasant cabin crew, uncomfortable seats, and truly horrible food on United flights. This incident displays a total lack of regard for their customers. Unfortunately the other US airlines aren't any better.
3
What reading the NY Times has taught me this week is that if I'm an overbooked passenger who's asked to leave a plane, I'm supposed to refuse to leave, and when they send a cop to eject me, I'm supposed to violently resist, and then drop to the floor and let myself be dragged off, like a child who won't go where his parents ask him to. And then the airline is supposed to apologize to me, and announce that it won't use cops to eject overbooked passengers who refuse to leave anymore. Or at least if I'm Asian, and the place is America. I don't know if it would be the same if you're white.
There should be like a book that collects all these bits of wisdom of how we're supposed to behave nowadays, kind of a new Bible. They could find one of those kids who did the brawls in the shopping malls after Christmas to write it.
There should be like a book that collects all these bits of wisdom of how we're supposed to behave nowadays, kind of a new Bible. They could find one of those kids who did the brawls in the shopping malls after Christmas to write it.
2
No mention of the real reason United is spooked. Their stock dived and, after the Robber Barons moved money around to shore it up when it lost substantially more, was down over 1% for the day.
The only place to hit The Con Don and his Top 1% Global Financial Elite Robber Baron/ Radical Religion mafia-model Good Old Boys' Club/ Corporate Cabal is in the wallet.
AMERICAN CONSUMERS, 401K "investors" and fund managers, have IMMENSE AND ULTIMATE power. WE must use it.
Today, every single person flying on United should ignore the calls to board for one-half hour. Throw off their little "schedule" for profit. Throw a monkey wrench into it.
This article is a stark reminder of how the Robber Barons want us all to live. In fear, no rights. The vast majority of Americans disagree but without action it means nothing.
FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT!
The only place to hit The Con Don and his Top 1% Global Financial Elite Robber Baron/ Radical Religion mafia-model Good Old Boys' Club/ Corporate Cabal is in the wallet.
AMERICAN CONSUMERS, 401K "investors" and fund managers, have IMMENSE AND ULTIMATE power. WE must use it.
Today, every single person flying on United should ignore the calls to board for one-half hour. Throw off their little "schedule" for profit. Throw a monkey wrench into it.
This article is a stark reminder of how the Robber Barons want us all to live. In fear, no rights. The vast majority of Americans disagree but without action it means nothing.
FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT!
4
Their protocol says United will deny boarding to oversold (or otherwise overbooked if some staff wander in late and decide they want the seats), but it doesn't say anything about prying people out of their seats and violently dragging them off the plane they have already boarded.
7
United has lost touch all with reality and their customers. Boycotting them is a good response and will show airlines they need to treat their customers better.
Why all of the passengers on that flight in United Airlines' unfriendly skies didn't get up and protest the appalling treatment of one of their own is beyond understanding. As for United, it's clear where its priority lies--Greed.
3
They were likely terrified of being treated the same way. Stewards/stewardesses today are very intimidating. Flying today is a nightmare. I have flown alone to care for relatives otherwise I would not set foot on a plane.
2
The passenger in question has a record of difficulty dealing with his emotions and controlling his actions. He, a 1995 immigrant from Viet Nam, had his medical license suspended over ten years ago as a result of multiple felony convictions for illegal use and sale of drugs and the abuse of his position as a physician. He is now allowed to practice, not his specialty, but only internal medicine in an outpatient setting and only for one day a week under the supervision of a licensed physician. (all this from the on line records of the Ky board of medical licensure.
Why does no one condemn his behavior? Like many people who have disrespect for others and for legal authority, he is reported to have accused the airline of racism (as do not a few commentators).
The airline acted within its legal rights and in conformity with government regulations. It is the passenger whose defiant and anti social behavior caused this uproar, emotionally harmed the other passengers, delayed the flight, and has caused financial damage to the airline. (The filming and posting of the video did a lot to inflame and not clarify the situation)
He refused to leave the plane as he was obligated to do by his contract with the carrier for passage. He was wrong. It is shocking that we have descended into a society where individual misbehavior is lauded and careers are destroyed by people who appear to be seriously mentally disturbed.
Why does no one condemn his behavior? Like many people who have disrespect for others and for legal authority, he is reported to have accused the airline of racism (as do not a few commentators).
The airline acted within its legal rights and in conformity with government regulations. It is the passenger whose defiant and anti social behavior caused this uproar, emotionally harmed the other passengers, delayed the flight, and has caused financial damage to the airline. (The filming and posting of the video did a lot to inflame and not clarify the situation)
He refused to leave the plane as he was obligated to do by his contract with the carrier for passage. He was wrong. It is shocking that we have descended into a society where individual misbehavior is lauded and careers are destroyed by people who appear to be seriously mentally disturbed.
I am very tired of the media saying that this flight was "overbooked." It was not overbooked. Everyone had a seat and was on the plane. The airline needed four seats for last-minute transport of a crew to Louisville; it did not have too many passengers to whom it had sold reservations. Incidentally, if United had put the employees in a car, they would have been in Louisville before the flight was.
This was not an overbooking issue. This was bad planning on United's part, in terms of where it (or a sister airline) needed crews and when. This makes it all the more unforgiveable.
This was not an overbooking issue. This was bad planning on United's part, in terms of where it (or a sister airline) needed crews and when. This makes it all the more unforgiveable.
10
So how much would it have cost to hire a limo driver to drive the "needed" crew to Louisville? Whatever the cost is would have been cheap dollars!
5
Chicago police and the passenger's resistence are to blame for excessively violent removal, United staff should have handled overbooking problem differently but were not the ones who dragged him off the plane. United staff are always the most courteous and helpful, it is unfair to attack the entire company's good reputation for one mistake. Providing us with safe, reliable, and inexpensive air travel is the most difficult and challenging business
1
United is the worst airline to fly. Terrible customer service and they make it clear that they don't care about their terrible customer service. I flew on united 20 years ago we got delayed on connecting flight do to winter weather they allowed people off plane after several hours of waiting. Then pulled away leaving 7 people sitting directly outside the gate without announcing that people should board. Great start to our Christmas trip home with my wife stranded without a flight in random airport. Didn't fly with them again for 15 years. Took a last minute flight with them 5 years ago. I left my kindle in the seat pocket when I exited the plane. I remembered just as I exited skybridge. I turned around immediately and other passengers are still disembarking. I tell the gate attendant my situation. She says you can't re-enter which I understand. I then tell them my seat number and item I left. She says sorry we can't have them bring that out to you. I ask if there is a lost and found number I can call. Answer ' No!' She then turned away and ignored me. I haven't flown with this terrible airline since. And after seeing this story it is clear the terrible cultural rot extends all the way to the top of this organization.
3
Yes, the behavior of the security people who physically dragged the customer off the plane was awful. But the passenger resisting and making those awful noises in the process is suspicious as well. This is how a doctor acts?
I don't think we're getting the entire story.
I don't think we're getting the entire story.
1
I'm so sorry that someone who is being beaten makes noises that make you feel uncomfortable. I think policies should be update to reflect your feelings "when you are being drag out from the plain avoid awful noises to prevent disturb other passenger or possible future viewers". (Insert sarcasm emoji here)
3
This article doesn't explain what happened ...this is my first viewing of this story and all I know is people are upset about a man being dragged off the airplane...why was he dragged off...shouldn't that br mentioned right away?
1
A 69 year old man behaved like he was 2 years old. Where is the outrage that an adult behaved in such a poor manner? This isn't about overbooking or race. This is about a passenger, who agreed to the possibility of being removed due to overbooking, not honoring that agreement.
For the cost of a rental car and a five-hour drive United could have gotten those four employees from O'Hare to Louisville in time for their morning flight. Who sets the policy that it is better to pay four passengers $800 each and put them up in a hotel in order to bump them from the flight? United shareholders (and ticket buyers) should be asking that question.
7
It is not a PR crisis, it is a crisis of human dignity and integrity. It is a wake up call for the consumers. If we do not unite our voices and bring justice to this horrible violation of the foundamental value of a civilized society, it is only going to get worse. This is also a opportunity to reshape the whole industry, if we care enough.
7
"The odds of actually being booted from a flight involuntarily are quite low. Last year, airlines involuntarily bumped about 40,600 people, a fraction of the roughly 660 million passengers who flew..."
Unless my math is wrong, that means almost 1% (0.07%) of passengers are involuntarily bumped annually. I don't agree that almost 1 out of 100 is "quite low."
Unless my math is wrong, that means almost 1% (0.07%) of passengers are involuntarily bumped annually. I don't agree that almost 1 out of 100 is "quite low."
5
From what I have seen of the video, it seemed like Dr. Dao was traveling with his wife. How could deplaning Dr. Dao (and only Dr. Dao) be in concordance with United's supposed policy of not separating families traveling together? I would be very interested to know who the other three passengers chosen for deplaning were and what criteria were used to choose them. Was it random, based on ticket fares, check-in times or was it racial profiling?
4
To resolve this, they will now forcefully confiscate all recordings of such beatings before they can be released to the public. They apologize for not collecting all the digital devices after the incident.
2
I imagine the earlier explanation/apology came from the Communications or PR department at United, not Mr Munoz himself. Only that kind of organization could invent such dishonest and disingenuous language such as "re-accomodate". Interesting that by the end of the string of statements he uttered something more straightforward; "No-one should ever be mistreated this way".
Let's have more direct communication from top managers responsible for their organization's performance and less reliance on smoothing the message by communications people.
Let's have more direct communication from top managers responsible for their organization's performance and less reliance on smoothing the message by communications people.
1
Hmm, if no one should ever be" mistreated this way," does that mean they should be mistreated in another way? Strange use of language.
1
Faced with a situation of their own making, the airline didn't even offer the maximum required monitary incentive before dragging a paying customer off the plane. If police were called, what crime was the passenger committing? Overbooking is a strategy to maximize income overall, but if it fails, the company should have sucked it up and made other arrangements at their expense to get the crew to their destination.
4
If they want people to voluntarily give up their seat they should offer cash and plenty of it. Giving up your seat often means taking a flight the next day as in this case and therefore you have to pay for a hotel and transportation back and forth to the airport plus meals. Getting a travel voucher for that airline is about as helpful as getting frequent flyer miles that are difficult to cash in on for decent flights and connections. No, give money so that the person is then free to fly another airline and have some cash to spare for his troubles.
The man in the video is very brave. Most people would just get up and walk off the plane so as not to make a disturbance. He knew what was happening was wrong and it violated his rights and he stood his ground. I don't think I would have the guts to do what he did. Because of him other people will not be treated like cattle by United.
183
Another Rosa Parks.
And he was Chinese!
There seems to be some illogic that supports United's cost model. They need seats for crew, but are they saying that they are getting those seats from a statistical determination of customers who won't show? Then, in this current debacle, United had to remove people from the plane for its crew, without whom the flight wouldn't go.
It seems to me that those crew seats should always be assigned to crew. If the profit margin is so narrow that United has to juggle operational activities then something is wrong in its business model.
There was some advantage to having the regulated airline industry. Deregulation was supposed to introduce the miracle of competition, but if only four airlines control 80% of the U.S. traffic, we're shy of competition.
Being bumped from a flight is, in itself, incongruous. Flying is not like waiting for the next subway train. Generally, one has a schedule to meet, such as a job interview, business meeting, vacation reservations or family event. Subjecting one's plans to a stochastic model that requires prolonged waits in a service that should be timely is unacceptable. But it's based on corporate profit. There was some advantage to the regulated airline system.
It seems to me that those crew seats should always be assigned to crew. If the profit margin is so narrow that United has to juggle operational activities then something is wrong in its business model.
There was some advantage to having the regulated airline industry. Deregulation was supposed to introduce the miracle of competition, but if only four airlines control 80% of the U.S. traffic, we're shy of competition.
Being bumped from a flight is, in itself, incongruous. Flying is not like waiting for the next subway train. Generally, one has a schedule to meet, such as a job interview, business meeting, vacation reservations or family event. Subjecting one's plans to a stochastic model that requires prolonged waits in a service that should be timely is unacceptable. But it's based on corporate profit. There was some advantage to the regulated airline system.
4
Your comment is perfect. The only things I'll add: United has no problem booting some or all family members. United has no idea how to talk to customers. It doesn't matter what you're offering if the way you communicate info is inappropriate. The 4 enployees needing transport could have shared a rental car and bern home in 4 hours. They weren't working the flight, they were bumming a ride so they could work following day.
1
Chicago police are the first to begin acting out again.
"The Sessions Effect"
Without the oversight from the Obama administration, Trump has unleashed the worst upon us. This KKK mentality is coming from the Alabama AG. Who is not a nice person.
Corporations, Polluters, The bad one's in the Police Dept. are now on the loose.
Ignoramus Trump, Making America......? ...? what was that again?
"The Sessions Effect"
Without the oversight from the Obama administration, Trump has unleashed the worst upon us. This KKK mentality is coming from the Alabama AG. Who is not a nice person.
Corporations, Polluters, The bad one's in the Police Dept. are now on the loose.
Ignoramus Trump, Making America......? ...? what was that again?
7
I've been a nervous traveler since September 11, 2001, but my job requires frequent travel, so I do it. Over the past 15 years, the airport experience has gone from inconvenient to horrific. The planes are crowded, the airline employees are stressed, and passengers seem to be increasingly stressed and rude. We get treated not like customers, but as inconveniences. But still, I dutifully fly my 100,000 miles a year to get my job done.
Now, thanks to United, I have a new fear that non-uniformed police officers can violently drag me off a plane. The people we trust to keep us safe in the air can arrange for us to be brutalized on the ground, not for safety but for profit. Mr Munoz, I am afraid to fly on your airline, and your apologies don't address that.
My plan is not to boycott United, but when I can, simply reduce my air travel to only when absolutely necessary. It's just not worth it any more.
Now, thanks to United, I have a new fear that non-uniformed police officers can violently drag me off a plane. The people we trust to keep us safe in the air can arrange for us to be brutalized on the ground, not for safety but for profit. Mr Munoz, I am afraid to fly on your airline, and your apologies don't address that.
My plan is not to boycott United, but when I can, simply reduce my air travel to only when absolutely necessary. It's just not worth it any more.
"We know you have a choice when deciding which airline to fly and thank you for choosing..." I remember when several different airlines regularly made this announcement after landing. Haven't heard it in some time.
David Dao: An aging citizen who refused to give up his seat. Our era's struggle will be that against runaway global corporate power and greed. I hope his name is around in 100 years. We will need many more unlikely lions like him.
21
i bet cheaper tickets make their planes fuller than full -
1
wake up buttercups.
the united attitude mystery is now self-evident.
their board hired a cargo carrying former railroad executive to run an airline that carries people.
so thats why we united customers are treated like cargo. cargo doesnt talk back, they own the gates like the right of ways, cargo doesnt need a meal, cargo can sit on a siding so why cant passengers sit on the tarmac. customers can pay whatever we want to charge.
railroad execs have always treated folks like dirt and ditched the human trade in 1972. remember, they own the "road" and are union haters as well.
are we getting it yet?
the united attitude mystery is now self-evident.
their board hired a cargo carrying former railroad executive to run an airline that carries people.
so thats why we united customers are treated like cargo. cargo doesnt talk back, they own the gates like the right of ways, cargo doesnt need a meal, cargo can sit on a siding so why cant passengers sit on the tarmac. customers can pay whatever we want to charge.
railroad execs have always treated folks like dirt and ditched the human trade in 1972. remember, they own the "road" and are union haters as well.
are we getting it yet?
16
Treated like cattle, not cargo.
2
United did not overbook this flight, which is legal. They instead removed four seats from their inventory so that four of their employees could travel on that flight.
I hope that this is a sufficient technical difference so that United can be held to account for its deplorable conduct. At a minimum, I hope it adds another 0 to the check that United will be sending to the doctor for the assault it perpetrated on him and that it comes out of the CEO's hide.
I hope that this is a sufficient technical difference so that United can be held to account for its deplorable conduct. At a minimum, I hope it adds another 0 to the check that United will be sending to the doctor for the assault it perpetrated on him and that it comes out of the CEO's hide.
9
Supposedly one airline's new slogan is "We beat the competition, not our passengers."
11
Good one!!!
1
$1350 is the maximum compensation the airlines are REQUIRED to give bumped passengers; they CAN offer more. It would appear that increasing the incentive amounts offered to passengers that are already seated on the plane would be a better policy than forcible ejection.
United was too cheap to offer more money or vouchers to passengers. They likely would have had takers if they had raised the amount of money even $200 or more to entice passengers to leave the overbooked flight. Instead, their employees acted like thugs with deplorable results. They deserve all the bad press, outrage in China, stock selloff and the blot on their reputation/brand.
14
What happened here is absolutely unacceptable. There is no excuse for what happened to this gentleman. Frankly, I think Oscar should be fired for his attitude alone. I also believe any united employee involved should be sued along with United. Since when is this behavior acceptable? I hope United is sued for every penny they have
10
"Last year, airlines involuntarily bumped about 40,600 people, a fraction of the roughly 660 million passengers who flew, ..."
Ask those 40,600 people how they felt.
Airlines should be required to offer compensation until someone volunteers.
Ask those 40,600 people how they felt.
Airlines should be required to offer compensation until someone volunteers.
8
People keep asking - why didn't anyone just volunteer? I'll tell you why. The airlines have become so unreliable -- and those express jets are somehow excluded from having to give statistics for their on-time performance. Many of these secondary cities are served by the minor league jets -- in contract with the big 3 (American, United and Delta). The planes are tiny -- so are always jammed full and the next available flight might be 24-48 hours away. Because we already have to build-in in the likelihood of a cancel -- i am already flying 6-24 hours before i would have needed to a decade ago. I'm taking more time away from home or work -- just to make sure i get there when i MUST be there.
That is the other thing people are forgetting -- Travel is part of a supply chain -- you take a plane for an immediate, time-sensitive reason: A family event, business meeting, a vacation, return from school break. We have a paltry amount of vacation here in the states, and extra day can be 20% of your entire time off.
Deregulation has completely destroyed air travel - it is not reliable nor pleasant.
That is the other thing people are forgetting -- Travel is part of a supply chain -- you take a plane for an immediate, time-sensitive reason: A family event, business meeting, a vacation, return from school break. We have a paltry amount of vacation here in the states, and extra day can be 20% of your entire time off.
Deregulation has completely destroyed air travel - it is not reliable nor pleasant.
16
I hope all personnel in situations of authority realize one thing - calling security or the police may bring the law but it does not necessarily bring order! Think twice before you resort to such tactics.
12
What was wrong with the ground crew locally. Did they not know beforehand that the flight was oversold and therefore they would need to bump four people? Wouldn't it have been easier to resolve this issue before everyone had boarded the flight? This is sheer incompetence and should have been preventable if anyone had been thinking. Obviously they weren't.
11
United could have put those 4 employees in one rental car. They would have taken a 4 hour ride. Dr. Dao was traveling for work. But it doesn't matter why he needed that seat. He paid for it, it was his. Overbooking creates more problems than it solves. People rarely skip flights anymore. United bullshits when they say that they don't bump families traveling together. My 3 yr old and I were stranded overnight without our luggage in an airport and hotel without food. Phoenix. We wound up on another flight next day, heading to JFK when we needed Newark. Our bag did not arrive for 2 hours, and our stroller was broken.
I recently checked in for a United flight with two bags, each of which was small and could easily qualify as a personal handbag that you might use as a purse or, at most, a small tote bag. I intended to carry both bags onto the plane and store them under my seat. I have traveled with these bags many times before and never was asked to pay a fee to bring them into the cabin.
This time, I was told that I would be charged a $25 fee since only one free bag in the cabin was allowed for each traveler. I quickly repacked my pocketbook into a small suitcase that I was paying to check and boarded with my small tote bag. I thought to myself that United must be kidding if they thought I was that easy a target for an extra fee.
This time, I was told that I would be charged a $25 fee since only one free bag in the cabin was allowed for each traveler. I quickly repacked my pocketbook into a small suitcase that I was paying to check and boarded with my small tote bag. I thought to myself that United must be kidding if they thought I was that easy a target for an extra fee.
10
This is typical of how most corporations treat and wil continue to treat their customers after a corrupt Supreme Court has decided that corporations have the same rights as citizens. It will only get worse as the bought and paid for Republican Party follows through on the complete corporatization of American public and private life. If you vote for any of these Republican frauds, you will get what you vote for.
9
I was bumped once due to overbooking. While I was not happy and can appreciate a person wanting to say no, I complied. I was compensated as I believe this gentlemen would of been. Providing the airline did provide explanations regarding policy/compensation and then the man continued to refuse to deplane on his own, assistance would be needed. Unfortunately for the man and United, removing someone by force is not pretty. The man should of deplaned prior to the escalation of the event. How scary our sky's would be if people do not follow rules/laws when flying. As comments have suggested, all Airlines will now be taking a look at overbooking.
1
Would you vacate your home if requested? You already paid for it.
1
American businesses are all about the "free market," right? Our (nauseating) republican Congress is another cabal of "free market" fanatics, right? Then, let us "free market" away - scrap the maximum allowance airlines can offer to customers to rectify the airlines' mistakes. I am certain 4 passengers would have made the deal to exit for $2000 or $5000. More "free market" reality - scraping "mediation" or "binding arbitration" as these are industry-orchestrated show events that we are all locked into the minute we sing a contract to fly, use a credit card, talk on a cell phone, rent a car, etc. Going forward, let's give the customer the right to purchase the legal counsel that will decide on the binding outcome. Or, here's a better idea for the consumers of America: stop voting for the elected buffoons who believe these corporations are better than you and deserve greater protections. These senators are no more committed to meaningful reform today than they were last Friday; stop pretending otherwise. Publicity vultures themselves, they're just riding the updraft of public scorn - there will be no meaningful reform, nothing that challenges the indulgent corporate donations to our for-profit congressional representatives. Ya' get what you pay for and our Congress people are the wholly-owned subsidiaries of their major donors.
What's the up-charge for dragging? Can we use air miles to cover that fee?... the doctor will see you now (in court).
"Fly the friendly skies?" Ha! Doesn't pass the laugh test and never will again.
5
I stopped flying United airlines 2 years ago, when they canceled a flight and I could not get home for two days. There policies of treatment of passengers is horrendous. After been stuck for one night you would think passengers would be the first listed on the morning flights, no such luck.
They over book flights cancel flights and the passenger is the loser. I think they should boycotted.
They over book flights cancel flights and the passenger is the loser. I think they should boycotted.
My own experiences with United employees has been all positive - they have made great effort to help. This case is obviously an absurd misjudgment by one employees greatly magnified by the stupid effort of the CEO to minimize it. Let's hope they reeducate their staff quick.
5
I am simply ashamed at the barbaric way in which Dr. Dao was treated! Watching the coverage and the viral video on the 8 o'clock new here in Europe, it seemed like my home country is unrecognizable. Where has human decency gone?
14
Oooh, if this isn't a promo for the proposed research on fast tube trains as well as more train rails to come to the fore. Let the airline industry continue to destruct!
The way this event unfolded is stunning. I had no idea I could forcibly be removed from a plane to accommodate another passenger. I disagree very strongly with anyone who asserts that this fellow should have just meekly hung his head and walked off the plane in deference to United Airlines. I’ve seen people being asked not to board a plane due to an overbooking situation, but that always happened in the terminal. I assumed once you were seated, that was it.
For some of us who are nervous flyers, finally sitting in that seat begins a mental process of resigning ourselves to being stuck in an uncomfortable environment in a flying tin can for the duration. I can’t imagine being told I have to get off a plane because an airline didn’t figure out its problems before I was seated. Boarding a plane is not the same as getting on bus where another one will be along in half an hour or so.
United has no respect for its customers. Their first “apology” said it all. We’re just cattle.
For some of us who are nervous flyers, finally sitting in that seat begins a mental process of resigning ourselves to being stuck in an uncomfortable environment in a flying tin can for the duration. I can’t imagine being told I have to get off a plane because an airline didn’t figure out its problems before I was seated. Boarding a plane is not the same as getting on bus where another one will be along in half an hour or so.
United has no respect for its customers. Their first “apology” said it all. We’re just cattle.
Overbooking seems to be a rational way to be sure all seats are filled. But that doesn't mean the airline doesn't have to have a rational way to execute the policy. If they let the auction reach a couple thousand dollars they would have have found takers. Then they can factor that expense in their decision as to how much over they overbook.
You'd think businesses that spend millions advertising how friendly they are would allocate a few thousand to being friendly. Just like with the police, powerful corporations like to use the cover of darkness to do what they want. Cell phones are the sun.
You'd think businesses that spend millions advertising how friendly they are would allocate a few thousand to being friendly. Just like with the police, powerful corporations like to use the cover of darkness to do what they want. Cell phones are the sun.
10
I am not completely surprised at the barbaric treatment and racial profiling and injustice conducted by low rank, less educated UAL and airport security personnel.
I am disgusted beyond belief at the apathy in full display towards us Chinese Americans -- On a plane full of hundreds of American citizens, no one, not a single citizen, dare to stand up (except for a couple of nice ladies who protested against the security officers by yelling), after witnessing such a barbaric treatment of a fellow American. Not a single American is willing to stand up to UAL and airport security's tyranny and racial injustice, or at minimum, to give up his or her seat for a 69 years doctor who needs to make patient appointment next morning.
Across the Pacific Ocean, 200 million Chinese citizens - top CEOs Chinese corporation, including Chinese Amazon, top Chinese celebrities, and actors and actress, and tens of millions Vietnam citizens are protesting for a fellow Chinese American of Vietnam origin.
That 200 million Chinese citizens strongly protested against American airline and American security officers tyranny and racial injustice against a fellow American. That is shameful, sickening and disgusting, not on the part of the 200 millions Chinese and Vienamese netizens with good conscience, who care about their own blood brothers and sisters across the ocean, but shameful, sickening and disgusting on the entire American nation.
I am disgusted beyond belief at the apathy in full display towards us Chinese Americans -- On a plane full of hundreds of American citizens, no one, not a single citizen, dare to stand up (except for a couple of nice ladies who protested against the security officers by yelling), after witnessing such a barbaric treatment of a fellow American. Not a single American is willing to stand up to UAL and airport security's tyranny and racial injustice, or at minimum, to give up his or her seat for a 69 years doctor who needs to make patient appointment next morning.
Across the Pacific Ocean, 200 million Chinese citizens - top CEOs Chinese corporation, including Chinese Amazon, top Chinese celebrities, and actors and actress, and tens of millions Vietnam citizens are protesting for a fellow Chinese American of Vietnam origin.
That 200 million Chinese citizens strongly protested against American airline and American security officers tyranny and racial injustice against a fellow American. That is shameful, sickening and disgusting, not on the part of the 200 millions Chinese and Vienamese netizens with good conscience, who care about their own blood brothers and sisters across the ocean, but shameful, sickening and disgusting on the entire American nation.
1
I wonder why we do not hear from other passengers watching (from their seats) a passenger is being taken - Did they help the officer who grab the physician ?
Did they continue with the flight ? Or maybe just did selfie from their B23 sit ..
Only because passengers were passive UA could do it !
Did they continue with the flight ? Or maybe just did selfie from their B23 sit ..
Only because passengers were passive UA could do it !
2
On it's best days, United is callous and indifferent to customer needs and happiness. But on days like this it shows how little disregard they have for passenger dignity and that the welcome video at the start of each flight, featuring the CEO, is a big fat lie and that he is a big fat liar. I fly internationally over 20 times a year and I do everything possible to avoid giving United a thin dime of the money I spend. They deserve everything bad that comes next.
5
If ONE Republican Congressman/woman was chosen "at random" to be kicked off a flight..................a solution to this airline GREED would be almost immediate.
7
I'm fundamentally confused. Under whose auspices (local law enforcement, government?), and under what laws, did this happen? If overbooking to maximize profit is justification for ejecting paying customers using physical force, should we expect this as a possibility at restaurants, hotels, venues? Don't each of these industries factor in unsold tables/seats/rooms and price accordingly? When does my buying a service leave me vulnerable to forcible ejection at the direction of a company?
9
What about compairing this to the Kitty Genovese murder? Everyone stood by, watched, did nothing and took out their phones. $800 I would be the first to volunteer, seeing a man dragged from his seat I can't see why someone didn't try to stop it or say let him be and take me instead. United has a pr nightmare but anyone who didn't stand up to intervene should feel shame as well
4
A woman in an adjacent seat challenged these thugs repeatedly and quite loudly stating "Look at what you're doing". And yelling at them to stop. Not sure what else she could do. One certainly could not engage in any physical contact in this charged situation. Just wanted to give that woman credit.
Even the New York Times - in this article - buys into the ridiculous notion that the only way the Airline could transport its employees was on that plane. That's simply not true. There was time to get them there in many other ways, maybe not free for the airline, but chartering a private jet - in retrospect - would have been cheaper than what this debacle has cost them.
7
This doesn't just affect United it is a further trashing of America's
image and costs you all lost tourism and trade. It adds to the existing nightmare of rude and ignorant border control and hopelessly inconvenient and uncomfortable airports. So many people I know now simply avoid flying west through the US, much as they like visiting it, in favour of the superb infrastructure of Asia.
image and costs you all lost tourism and trade. It adds to the existing nightmare of rude and ignorant border control and hopelessly inconvenient and uncomfortable airports. So many people I know now simply avoid flying west through the US, much as they like visiting it, in favour of the superb infrastructure of Asia.
4
The way this situation was handled by dragging the man off the plane was completely wrong. However, wouldn't you just get up and walk off the plane if police told you they were going to physically remove you? As annoyed and angry as I would be to have to give up my seat I wouldn't let it go so far as to be dragged off the plane. Everyone is saying that this man's past doesn't matter. But maybe it shows that he doesn't have the best judgement and perhaps that is why he let it get to the point where they dragged him off the plane.
2
This is when one does not wish to be 'United'. Maybe it will take a nail in the cog of our very Being to wake up to the reality that we are in danger of losing our Land where war was once being fought by the first Governor of Maryland. Sometimes one has to go back to the Past in order to pause and consider the Present. Let us act upon it or we will not have a Future.
2
Mr. Munoz needs to be fired - and his salary reclaimed. No stock, no parachute ... a pink slip. The lead, out-of-uniform cop needs to be fired (and possibly prosecuted). The public needs to stop flying United. The government needs to restore competition - a cornerstone of capitalism.
10
This is really simple. United should deal with this problem at the gate. If they know, and they should, that 4 employees have priority, the employees get seats and the last in line don't. Airline travel is a horrible experience today. Any airline should know that their customers are stressed and all too often angry. If a passenger refuses to leave without resisting, everyone gets off the plane while security fights the passenger. Engaging in close quarters hand to hand combat in the narrow confines of a regional jet risks bodily injury to innocent bystanders and possibly psychological injury as well. I used to love to fly. Not any more.
3
"Everyone gets off while security fights the passenger?" Are you serious? No video evidence then! More empowerment to the corporate thugs? They are already out of control with unfettered power. Time to stop the practice of overbooking. The practice also creates an environment of more delays and compromises safety. And which airline practices exploit apparent security measures when they are in reality manipulating situations for monetary gain? We don't know do we? Time for more accountability and busting up these monopolies. No more airline consolidation. In this deregulated environment the vast US population now has a handful of health insurrers, a paltry few cable companies and four airlines? Recipe for abuse of the consumer.
1
Absolutely disgraceful behaviour. An investigation ordered by the CEO is insufficient. The error was United's. If they cannot manage their booking system in this age of IT technology, then their IT director should be fired, not drag a poor PAYING passenger ignominiously off the plane. I hope he wins a hefty settlement. All any intelligent airline official had to do was to offer a free flight to any person who had no special urgency to fly that day. Too intelligent a solution for United to conceive, I guess. Perhaps Emirates and Etihad from the airlines Gulf with their impeccable service should service America, which certainly needs some proper quality competition.
3
The video does highlight passengers' vulnerability. We have a new worry now. As passengers we know that so many things can, and do, go wrong on a flight but you don't imagine the possibility of being forced off a flight while in your seat holding a valid ticket. That really hits home. The airline may have changed part of its story but not the lie used to defend its action; that another flight, from Louisville, would have to be cancelled if those employees weren't flown to Louisville (on that flight in the places of the removed passengers). It is difficult to believe that UA couldn't have found seats for their employees - from Chicago - on some airline without forcing passengers off that flight.
6
They tried to throw him off of the plane, and he defied them.
They tried again. And "nonetheless, he persisted."
We get it.
They tried again. And "nonetheless, he persisted."
We get it.
I refuse to book or fly on United Airlines. Several years ago, I was in Washington DC flying out of Dulles. For several days, the news media featured stories about a storm coming in. But when it did arrive, United Airlines was totally unprepared. They had two agents for hundreds of people waiting to be rebooked. I stood in line for hours (as many as six hours, I recall) before an airline representative walked around with slips of paper - call this number to get rebooked. I missed a family event due to this debacle. I vowed never to place my life in their hands again. If they aren't able to handle a known weather event, what else are they not doing? Fixing the planes? Ensuring they have enough fuel? United totally failed the flying public on this occasion. An entire terminal of people endured hours of waiting and uncertainty, and days of delays in reaching their destinations. It seems their incompetence has only grown over time. Never again, United. Never again. I want to live.
Deregulation and lack of enforcement antitrust laws has made UA TOO BIG TO BOYCOTT. How's that small government working out for ya?
"Mistreated?" I would say he was "assaulted." I'm booking my next flight this week, and it certainly won't be with United, even though their fare is lower.
5
Oscar Munoz is not just a disgrace to himself, his company and employees, but he's also a sad example of a human being. Hopefully United's board will get rid of him pronto!
As for Dr. Dao, I take comfort in the fact that instead of getting a few hundred dollars in travel vouchers for his seat he will now get millions of dollars in cash. He should definitely consider throwing a few bucks to the people that took the cellphone video and made him a millionaire.
As for Dr. Dao, I take comfort in the fact that instead of getting a few hundred dollars in travel vouchers for his seat he will now get millions of dollars in cash. He should definitely consider throwing a few bucks to the people that took the cellphone video and made him a millionaire.
2
The general commentary here is a sad reflection of the current state of our society. No wonder Trump is president.
Anyone who dislikes United should fly another airline or not fly at all. Or pay full fare.
How many readers upset about this incident scour the internet for the lowest fares when they travel? Most I would guess.
United may be maximizing profits but for many many years, there were huge losses due to low fares that did not cover the cost of running an airline.
The public created this travel machine, or monster if you like. So if you are upset by the treatment you get on your flight, take look at yourself and ask are you actually paying for the service that you expect.
If the answer is no, pay full fare next time and perhaps you may get treated better!
Anyone who dislikes United should fly another airline or not fly at all. Or pay full fare.
How many readers upset about this incident scour the internet for the lowest fares when they travel? Most I would guess.
United may be maximizing profits but for many many years, there were huge losses due to low fares that did not cover the cost of running an airline.
The public created this travel machine, or monster if you like. So if you are upset by the treatment you get on your flight, take look at yourself and ask are you actually paying for the service that you expect.
If the answer is no, pay full fare next time and perhaps you may get treated better!
How on earth did the public create this travel machine? Nowhere on my ticket does it ask if I would like to make a contribution to United Airlines so in the future I wouldn't have to be treated like cattle.
Sure, I can go first class to get better accommodations, and I do because the cattle car arrangement is too much for these old bones. But back in my younger days a coach seat was a coach seat. What did I have to do with the rates? Is there some 'morality' issue in looking to pay less? I wasn't treated any better if I paid full fare coach versus cheap deal coach.
In this age of computers, it would be nothing for United to figure out a traveler's position on the "re-accommodation" list so that there would be no surprises. It's common decency.
Sure, I can go first class to get better accommodations, and I do because the cattle car arrangement is too much for these old bones. But back in my younger days a coach seat was a coach seat. What did I have to do with the rates? Is there some 'morality' issue in looking to pay less? I wasn't treated any better if I paid full fare coach versus cheap deal coach.
In this age of computers, it would be nothing for United to figure out a traveler's position on the "re-accommodation" list so that there would be no surprises. It's common decency.
How is this United's problem, they have zero control or authority over police conduct? What about the three Americans who got off the plane voluntarily and only this Chinese guy wouldn't obey.
3
How do we know the nationality of the three passengers who were removed earlier? Why does it matter?
United messed up --Standby employees should not be able to eject passengers whose boarding passes had already been accepted by the airline.
United messed up --Standby employees should not be able to eject passengers whose boarding passes had already been accepted by the airline.
Profits over individual rights: not my America.
Flubbed, half-hearted apology: pathetic.
Loss of corporate value on the market: deserved.
Further apology: unconvincing.
Citizens, we have voted into power a Congress and President (who has now also seated a Supreme Court justice) who approve corporate profits over individual rights. How will history view these times?
Flubbed, half-hearted apology: pathetic.
Loss of corporate value on the market: deserved.
Further apology: unconvincing.
Citizens, we have voted into power a Congress and President (who has now also seated a Supreme Court justice) who approve corporate profits over individual rights. How will history view these times?
What saddens me the most out of all this is the fact that today's society takes no responsibility for their actions and consequences following. Deplaning is done from the lowest fare up. This passenger re-boarded the aircraft after being deplaned. That is a federal offence. You don't own the aircraft. Everyone believes they should be an exception.
1
It's time for Mr. Munoz to accept responsibility and step down. United has become so disrespectful of his customers. I was scheduled to leave on United last Saturday from San Francisco to London at 7:35PM. United claimed that the flight was delayed by an hour, only to announce by 9PM that flight was cancelled. There was no attempt to help find alternative. The event with Dr. Dao showed that the abusive culture starts from the very top. Mr. Munoz, it's time for you to go!!!!
5
United like most US airlines is awful and it is a real trial to be forced to fly any US carrier. Time to make America great? (I resist the "again": because I cannot recall such a period.)
So we have two accounts: the "computer" "randomly selected" those to be ejected from the plane; or today's story in which United says it followed a "protocol". A protocol is hardly random. So, it seems, United first gave us an explanation that sounded better, even it it wasn't actually accurate. What a curious PR strategy.
2
That does it for me. Time to nationalize the airlines. Take the profits and ridiculous executive salaries out of the price of a flight, please. The fantasy that competition keeps fares low is about as valid as every other capitalist propaganda piece. Notice how well private enterprise is keeping health care and drug prices low in the US?
There are a few things that a civilized society can expect to be delivered efficiently at "cost": water, healthcare, education, trash pick up, utilities including high speed INTERNET, police, fire, emergency services, justice system including incarceration and mass transit. That's a few of them.
Let the capitalists compete with clothing, TVs and games. The essentials of modern living should be provided sans price gouging and financing some jerks yacht.
There are a few things that a civilized society can expect to be delivered efficiently at "cost": water, healthcare, education, trash pick up, utilities including high speed INTERNET, police, fire, emergency services, justice system including incarceration and mass transit. That's a few of them.
Let the capitalists compete with clothing, TVs and games. The essentials of modern living should be provided sans price gouging and financing some jerks yacht.
In one wonderful video the American public and the world get to see 1) United Airlines' utter contempt for its passengers and 2) Chicago law enforcement's police-state tactics.
Unfortunately in many places boycotting United may be difficult or inconvenient due to lack of other options. But if you own a United credit card you can always cut it up. And Chinese public opinion is also outraged, which could put a nice dent in UA's bottom line or expansion plans.
Ah, how I wish I could on be on the jury when Dr. Dao's civil suit comes to trial! (One can always dream.)
A hint to CEO Munoz: when you're in a hole, stop digging.
Unfortunately in many places boycotting United may be difficult or inconvenient due to lack of other options. But if you own a United credit card you can always cut it up. And Chinese public opinion is also outraged, which could put a nice dent in UA's bottom line or expansion plans.
Ah, how I wish I could on be on the jury when Dr. Dao's civil suit comes to trial! (One can always dream.)
A hint to CEO Munoz: when you're in a hole, stop digging.
3
So, I may not have 23 million miles on United as some Kellogg School professor who believes this will all blow over as Frequent Fliers are unlikely to react negatively to this...
But, I'll let my 100,000 miles on United lapse rather than fly with them again.
The CEO was forced to apologize given his initial reaction which was a non-apology. It's completely insincere.
What is a ticket worth if it doesn't even guarantee you a seat? The airlines make more profit by overselling seats but why should paying passengers bear the brunt of their loss aversion.
This is completely asymmetric power because everyone else in the industry has banded together to protect their profits, but passengers can get bumped off for no fault of theirs.
United needs to pay a heavy price for this action.
But, I'll let my 100,000 miles on United lapse rather than fly with them again.
The CEO was forced to apologize given his initial reaction which was a non-apology. It's completely insincere.
What is a ticket worth if it doesn't even guarantee you a seat? The airlines make more profit by overselling seats but why should paying passengers bear the brunt of their loss aversion.
This is completely asymmetric power because everyone else in the industry has banded together to protect their profits, but passengers can get bumped off for no fault of theirs.
United needs to pay a heavy price for this action.
4
I am employed as a teacher on the island of Guam. Unfortunately, there are not many airlines that can take us off of the island - United is one of the few. They put their ticket prices a bit lower than other airline options, so people often chose them. However, the prices are still excruciatingly high: $1600 to $2600 because United tries to get as much airfare as possible due to the lack of airline choice for certain destinations. I have to return to the States for my dependent's medical issues at least 3 times a year and although I am a frequent flyer, United nickles and dimes passengers to death to upgrade to three more precious inches of room, charges $10/for ridiculous tiny snack boxes, charges $70 for 55 extra inches of baggage and packs the aircraft to the gills - with no medical personal on board to fly 300 people - some quite elderly - for 12 hour flights. And: the attendants are mostly mean and spiteful - regardless of how kind one is to them. Although United is better than two years ago...I would rather fly any other airline EXCEPT for United. But we don't have much choice. United is raking in huge amounts of money on the monopoly they have on the island. Greedy and incomprehensibly selfish.
The only thing United will comprehend is passengers taking their money somewhere else. Delta: Are you listening? Philippine Air are you listening? Korean Air, stop being so greedy. Expand your flight choices and lower your prices and help put United where it belongs
The only thing United will comprehend is passengers taking their money somewhere else. Delta: Are you listening? Philippine Air are you listening? Korean Air, stop being so greedy. Expand your flight choices and lower your prices and help put United where it belongs
3
Simple solution: remove the ceiling on the bumping fees and remove abilility of airlines to blacklist customers for not accepting low-value compensation.
According to article, about 10% of those who get bumped do not feel like the amount they were offered was enough to make it worth their while. That speaks volumes.
I can imagine the bump fee action could go as high 10x the fare -- which seems fair to me.
According to article, about 10% of those who get bumped do not feel like the amount they were offered was enough to make it worth their while. That speaks volumes.
I can imagine the bump fee action could go as high 10x the fare -- which seems fair to me.
Legal does not equal ethical. Laws governing the airline industry are written by airline lobbyists. They have no basis in ethics.
Congress (and their staffers reading this)... How about a passenger bill of rights where the bumped passenger is entitled to twice the profit the airline makes by over-selling the plane. For example, United sells 4 more seats. Then the bumped passenger gets twice the cost of the 4 most expensive seats in the same class of service (e.g. coach). The money must be in cash, not airline credit, since a bumped passenger must not be required to use the bumping airline again.
The airline cannot have its cake and eat it too, and such a policy should eliminate the overselling of seats.
Congress (and their staffers reading this)... How about a passenger bill of rights where the bumped passenger is entitled to twice the profit the airline makes by over-selling the plane. For example, United sells 4 more seats. Then the bumped passenger gets twice the cost of the 4 most expensive seats in the same class of service (e.g. coach). The money must be in cash, not airline credit, since a bumped passenger must not be required to use the bumping airline again.
The airline cannot have its cake and eat it too, and such a policy should eliminate the overselling of seats.
2
United continues to hide behind the "if the are no takers" fallacy. If there are no takers at your current offer, you need to increase the offer. Brute force is never an option.
5
Imagine what would have happened if the passenger were Black?
1
Corporations can be as brutal as dictators if not regulated, especially if they have a monopoly on their market. I hope the passenger who had this injustice thrown apon him and will fine some peace and calm in the future. As for United Airlines, please fire Mr. Munoz immediately.
2
I condemn ejection of a revenue paying customer. In this dark situation, what amuses me is the coal calling cattle black. I have personal experience of knowing the number of passengers booted out by Emirates. The accolades it boasts about are fake. All airlines are guilty of this mean practice without exception. Sorry but I am yet to find an airline or its regulator with a healthy morale.
1
Enough is enough. The airlines need a lession they will not forget for a long time. The arrogance of United is overwhelming. It needs to fold.
1
United has no excuse in treatment Dr. Dao received. In the case of the girls, United had every right. They were on passes for airline employees snd their families. You get to fly for free and you must follow the dress code. It was a fair trade when I flew non-rev.
1
United's PR team suffers from many ills, including poor grammar: "no one should ever be mistreated this way" is a glaring example of just how pervasive our lack of proper grammar is. The statement indicates there are other ways to mistreat people. Sadly, even venerable institutions like The Times fall victim. A new generation of writers and editors, a product of over-burdened, misguided education systems and social media communication protocols, is dumbing down our language.
I absolutly agree with you: no one should ever be TREATED this way, least of all with violence, especially in this case; there's simply no call for it!
Yeah, after teaching English in Asia the past 14 years, I'm horrified at how the accuracy of professional English writers is degenerating globally.
Yeah, after teaching English in Asia the past 14 years, I'm horrified at how the accuracy of professional English writers is degenerating globally.
The article misses the point slightly. This is a story about inept management from the very top, all the way to the staff on the ground. Although overbooking is a problem generally, it actually wasn't in this case. The passengers were being turfed off to make way for United staff. Only a half hearted effort was made to pursaude passengers to volunteer before the easy option of enlisting "muscle" to impose what United wanted over the rights of the customers who had already paid for and boarded their flight. And then it was clear the CEO did his best to employ management-speak to weasel out of the situation. Only the world is not so easily hoodwinked nowadays and hence at last United is trying to back peddle and feign sincerity in response to the outrage at their behavior. Although it seems they are also concurrently trying to dig dirt on the victim and sprinkle excuses in forum comments. It's amazing how one can dig a deeper hole if one is pig headed enough!
This was not the work of Chechen separates but airline staff; not bandit country but at O'Hare Airport. What Oscar Munoz and the United Airlines Board should be reflecting on is how this disgraceful behaviour was not just tolerated but positively encouraged by the airline. The email Munoz sent to staff was unforgivable. Apologies from PR departments come cheap; the culture of a company is set at the top and the man at the top should have been the one dragged off the plane and beaten up.
Once upon I time -- pre 9/11 -- I flew United frequently, and in those halcyon days the experiences were on the whole quite nice. (They even had blankets for passengers in those days -- raise your hand if you recall such simple yet thoughtful amenities . . . )
Just two weeks ago, however, I booked a flight on United, straying from my normal carrier due to short notice and thus limited options.
NEVER AGAIN. The seating space is now incredibly cramped, and the high-volume blasting of All-Things-United through the entertainment system could not have been more obtrusive an obnoxious - and at a grossly unnecessary high volume. IT screamed "Trying too hard (we'ere desperate for your business!)". Beyond that, the luggage check-in was brusque and costly (really: $100 for an extra bag???), and the in-flight attendants couldn't have been more disengaged.
Whatever happened to "customer service"? Whatever happened treating others as you would be treated??? If this is an attempt to impress, it's horribly backwards.
Friendly skies? Those days are long gone.
Just two weeks ago, however, I booked a flight on United, straying from my normal carrier due to short notice and thus limited options.
NEVER AGAIN. The seating space is now incredibly cramped, and the high-volume blasting of All-Things-United through the entertainment system could not have been more obtrusive an obnoxious - and at a grossly unnecessary high volume. IT screamed "Trying too hard (we'ere desperate for your business!)". Beyond that, the luggage check-in was brusque and costly (really: $100 for an extra bag???), and the in-flight attendants couldn't have been more disengaged.
Whatever happened to "customer service"? Whatever happened treating others as you would be treated??? If this is an attempt to impress, it's horribly backwards.
Friendly skies? Those days are long gone.
Dear United CEO, Management and Employees: I am United Global Services member. What happened to that passenger is appalling. What was also completely unacceptable was the response and comments from the United CEO. Here is how I decide to show displeasure at the treatment a customer got: I will need to continue using United as they have a major hub in Newark but every opportunity I get I will look for alternatives. I changed my fully refundable international flight back to Delta today - some loss of revenue to United. Finally, advice for the CEO: Be empathetic to your customers - they are why United exists! While I agree that your crew should be trained to follow procedures and protocols that ensure safety they should also be trained to know when to intervene and not let a passenger be beaten, dragged, bloodied - that is safety too. Don't hide behind fine print and behind union protections. You have a culture of bullying passengers in many situations - for your own sake please change. Step up and show empathy - have you no humanity left?