Love the Patriots , NYT's everything you write is so divisive, my god your become evil
11
The New York Times has thoroughly embarrassed itself on this issue with shamelessly, inexcusably bad reporting. The whole thing was baloney, no less than the reporting that Saddam had WMD's. It's not acceptable. Ms. Macur should never be allowed to publish again.
https://consortiumnews.com/2017/02/02/deflategate-cloud-over-the-super-b...
https://consortiumnews.com/2017/02/02/deflategate-cloud-over-the-super-b...
22
The ''so-called" fans are akin to the ''so-called" president who calls the ''so-called" judge ''so-called".
In another part of the world less than 100 years ago a ''so-called" former army messenger was appointed ''so-called" Chancellor by a ''so-called" government leader who was like the ''so-called" president Reagan kind of brain dead so that ''so-called" party leader he appointed would fail and the people could move on.
Our version of the ''so-called" president is that he has ''so-called" the victor so the game should be stopped and declared as he predicted or the ''so-called" home of the
brave and the free can remain as its was under the ''so-called" Constitution and ''so-called" Bill of Rights and stay the ''so-called" beacon of light (or 10,000 lights under a wasteful ''so-called" president Bush I) with the ''so-called" president Trump as the ''so-called" vision of peace, love and justice the American 1% way.
'Look up in the sky, is it a bird (no), is it a plane (no), no its super Trump calling the game and making all the rules (subject to change to fit each lie and bad call.)
Remember in England that trump is a verb which means to pass gas, not a pass!
In another part of the world less than 100 years ago a ''so-called" former army messenger was appointed ''so-called" Chancellor by a ''so-called" government leader who was like the ''so-called" president Reagan kind of brain dead so that ''so-called" party leader he appointed would fail and the people could move on.
Our version of the ''so-called" president is that he has ''so-called" the victor so the game should be stopped and declared as he predicted or the ''so-called" home of the
brave and the free can remain as its was under the ''so-called" Constitution and ''so-called" Bill of Rights and stay the ''so-called" beacon of light (or 10,000 lights under a wasteful ''so-called" president Bush I) with the ''so-called" president Trump as the ''so-called" vision of peace, love and justice the American 1% way.
'Look up in the sky, is it a bird (no), is it a plane (no), no its super Trump calling the game and making all the rules (subject to change to fit each lie and bad call.)
Remember in England that trump is a verb which means to pass gas, not a pass!
7
Only the Patriots fans excuse this behavior.
No one else does.
Which is why the Patriots are the most hated team in football.
No one else does.
Which is why the Patriots are the most hated team in football.
27
Ms. Macur, unintentionally and almost certainly unknowingly has set herself as the Times sports moralist. What makes her work difficult to digest is her self-righteousness. There is no acknowledgment that the psychology she writes about, which appears to apply to almost everyone also applies to her. There is never any hint in her writing that she recognizes her own frailty as a human being.
In this article there isn't the slightest hint the league's findings in deflate gate have been challenged or that even if true, might well apply to other teams that haven't been caught. Why would they not cheat given that the league never devised (over a decade) a way to enforce this rule among others (raise your hand if you think receivers stopped using "stickum" just because the league says they can't given that nobody checks).
So the Patriots should be condemned. Why? Apparently because they got caught. That would seem the real "crime" in Ms. Macur's world unless she believes that no one else in the NFL cheats. But the very study she cites in this article suggests that absent the possibility of being caught, most people will cheat even when there aren't careers and tens of millions at stake.
In this article there isn't the slightest hint the league's findings in deflate gate have been challenged or that even if true, might well apply to other teams that haven't been caught. Why would they not cheat given that the league never devised (over a decade) a way to enforce this rule among others (raise your hand if you think receivers stopped using "stickum" just because the league says they can't given that nobody checks).
So the Patriots should be condemned. Why? Apparently because they got caught. That would seem the real "crime" in Ms. Macur's world unless she believes that no one else in the NFL cheats. But the very study she cites in this article suggests that absent the possibility of being caught, most people will cheat even when there aren't careers and tens of millions at stake.
10
New England has no major college football power, and baseball teams that break your heart. The Patriots attract an extremely loyal fan base because of a dearth of other successful teams---not everyone follows pro basketball. Loyalty is laudable, but blind loyalty is sadly dishonorable. As to Brady, when he played at Michigan he lost his starting stop to a sophomore. I come from a football family and I am not blinded with awe by hothouse, in-the-pocket QBs. For those who like that sort of thing, well, that is the sort of thing they like....
6
I meant to write "starting spot," not "starting stop," which is an oxymoron comparable to "honorable New England Patriots" :-))
What strikes me is the apologetic tone with which those who exhibit group bias are apparently pardoned. The empiric findings of social psychology are here brought to bear. Sure we can be more understanding with knowledge of our biases source, but that does not grant permission. In the same way ignorance of the law does not forgive transgression of it, individuals have a responsibility to be self-aware of biases if we can ever expect to collectively act against them as a society.
Couldn't care less about the Patriots, but I suppose the defensive reflexes on display in the comments are telling of the issue. No one seems to be interested in the substance of this article so much as to engage the tribalism it critiques. Sports are to 21st century America what Marx rightly labeled religion in the 19th: the opiate of the masses. Enjoy your super bowl, America.
Couldn't care less about the Patriots, but I suppose the defensive reflexes on display in the comments are telling of the issue. No one seems to be interested in the substance of this article so much as to engage the tribalism it critiques. Sports are to 21st century America what Marx rightly labeled religion in the 19th: the opiate of the masses. Enjoy your super bowl, America.
12
Why? Because as La Rochefoucauld said, "The heart has its reasons that reasons knows not of." You'll never persuade someone to believe something he does not wish to hold. And if he holds a belief strongly, you'll never dissuade him from it.
Which helps explains the current political situation, too. -- thegamesmenplay.com
Which helps explains the current political situation, too. -- thegamesmenplay.com
7
It's not that deep. Brady is a winner, handsome personable and well-spoken. Men want to be him and women want to be with him . That adulation carries over to the Patriots. No one cares about partially-deflated balls of any type.
9
A sizable minority of Americans voted for Trump, who considers himself "smart" for enriching himself by stiffing contractors, not paying federal taxes, etc. Cheating is apparently okay now. Even "smart."
This old fogey still considers it shameful and unAmerican.
This old fogey still considers it shameful and unAmerican.
32
When it comes to the NFL, the rules change, and America reverts to the caveman lifestyle of 2500BC. Whoever has the largest club, yells the loudest, and is the best cheater.......................always wins.
6
meh Tom Bratty, Bill Billious and Josh McDoodle are all "hated" for various reasons in this region. lol. Go Falcons!!
4
We all know the American way is to believe "alternative facts". Is it any wonder that Trump and Brady are friends?
GO FALCONS!
GO FALCONS!
14
If you think this degree of loyalty in spite of evidence is extreme, try criticizing Lance Armstrong sometime.
5
There's nothing new about this. It's a tribal thing -- the barbarians in 31 other NFL cities against Us!
2
America loves a cheater.The bigger the lie the better the story,the greater the sale.
9
Same thing as San Francisco Giants supporting one of the biggest cheaters of all time - Barry Bonds. It's always fine if the cheater is one of yours.
4
In one of my classes on international cooperation I have my students play a version of the Prisoner's Dilemma game in which the class is divided into two teams. In most years in which I conduct this exercise the teams opt for the defection strategy which yields fewer rewards than if they chose to cooperate. When the students are allowed to have a representative from their team negotiate with a representative from the other team, they nonetheless go back on their word and try to cheat the other side. No one is surprised.
1
I will say I am a Patriots fan. I'm not a conservative, but after reading this article, I can better understand how some conservatives take issue with "liberal" media.
First, the article pre-supposes the Patriots' guilt and takes no interest at all determining whether the cheating scandals were based in fact and fair. SpyGate was punishment for violating a memo indicating a new location for filming. Memos are not the official method for changing rules. Belichick certainly violated the spirit of the memo, but he was technically correct. It's like saying he didn't break the law, but wasn't right. DeflateGate was pre-determined guilt looking for evidence. Science (logic and reason) don't uphold the finding. Exponent was the hired hand used to make the assertions match the alternative facts. The suspension was an add-on when the problems with the Wells Report became exposed.
If Brady or the Patriots were guilty beyond using every square inch of the rule book, then punish them. And punish every other similar transgression by other teams with equal vigor. That is only fair and upholds the integrity of the sport.
If you wonder why Patriots fans are angry, imagine your government punishing you and pursuing "justice" in equally unsettling ways. If you don't understand that, then we certainly deserve the new administration that has just gotten started with its new "law and order" AG.
Maybe I'm just validating DeSteno's observations. But please provide a better example.
First, the article pre-supposes the Patriots' guilt and takes no interest at all determining whether the cheating scandals were based in fact and fair. SpyGate was punishment for violating a memo indicating a new location for filming. Memos are not the official method for changing rules. Belichick certainly violated the spirit of the memo, but he was technically correct. It's like saying he didn't break the law, but wasn't right. DeflateGate was pre-determined guilt looking for evidence. Science (logic and reason) don't uphold the finding. Exponent was the hired hand used to make the assertions match the alternative facts. The suspension was an add-on when the problems with the Wells Report became exposed.
If Brady or the Patriots were guilty beyond using every square inch of the rule book, then punish them. And punish every other similar transgression by other teams with equal vigor. That is only fair and upholds the integrity of the sport.
If you wonder why Patriots fans are angry, imagine your government punishing you and pursuing "justice" in equally unsettling ways. If you don't understand that, then we certainly deserve the new administration that has just gotten started with its new "law and order" AG.
Maybe I'm just validating DeSteno's observations. But please provide a better example.
21
How nice to have a commenter prove the point of this article. Thanks.
8
How nice to have a commentor prove the point of the previous commentor. Thanks
5
I never root for the Patriots but this headline and article is a prime example of how a news outlet can influence the public by its choices. Deflategate has been debunked by eminent scientists yet the NYT chooses to perpetuate it regardless. Not a Trump fan, but things like this makes one pause and take notice when he rails against the media.
14
Deflategate just showed what cheaters do.
6
So many jingoistic Pats' fans outraged and trolling on this page kind of prove the author's point.
I'd add two points: 1) fluffing the perception of attendance by adding crowd noise is NO where near as morally reprehensible as trying to influence action on the field; and 2) one of the most galling things is that the Pats didn't NEED to cheat to win, they have had great teams with tons of talent, but they did it anyway. It's like my father-in-law cheating at cards with his 7-year-old grandson. Sickening.
I'd add two points: 1) fluffing the perception of attendance by adding crowd noise is NO where near as morally reprehensible as trying to influence action on the field; and 2) one of the most galling things is that the Pats didn't NEED to cheat to win, they have had great teams with tons of talent, but they did it anyway. It's like my father-in-law cheating at cards with his 7-year-old grandson. Sickening.
15
Would not this rocket science research explain why a merry band in Congress who, just months ago was fulminating about executive overreach, is now cheering it on? The political examples of such selective morality are legion. Ask Merrick Garland about this.
www.endthemadnessnow.org
www.endthemadnessnow.org
25
Perhaps the Times could hire a psychologist to help us all understand why its sports columnists have such an unhealthy and distorted perception of reality. http://yourteamcheats.com/
8
The reason Pats fans are re-hashing the two incidents in question, and decrying the lack of evidence in Deflategate, is because the premise of this article, that there's an amazing type of cognitive dissonance going on with New England fans, who, given the overwhelming evidence of a sophisticated pattern of cheating from their hometown team, choose to look the other way and accept them anyway, is hogwash. If your enemies say you cheat, then furnish no credible evidence, there is no disassociative process required to say "hogwash". Hogwash.
6
We will never forget "deflate-gate", but the game goes on. There's lots of cheating in sports, always has been, will be and still is. It's just a matter of who gets caught.
2
Forget about the cheating past, how about Brady, Belichick and Kraft all fans of the Donald, the unfit. I used to like the Patriots, but the mere mention of any chumminess between any of the above and trump has me pulling mightily for the Falcons and makes me nauseous.
12
Exactly, the Pats' leadership bromance with Trump has ruined the team for me.
Even leaving politics aside, how could someone as disciplined and analytical as Belichick find anything to admire in Trump's shambolic and narcissistic approach to campaigning and governing, beyond, I suppose, the raw fact of his winning?
Even leaving politics aside, how could someone as disciplined and analytical as Belichick find anything to admire in Trump's shambolic and narcissistic approach to campaigning and governing, beyond, I suppose, the raw fact of his winning?
2
It's not that complicated. It's called tribalism and we see it in politics, ethnic groups, even Trump supporters. It takes a lot more than a deflate-gate to break the bond.
5
I think we can turn to the NCAA for some answers. These are the most unrepentant and blindly loyal fans around. They are willing to overlook massive academic fraud, sexual abuse cover ups, bar fights, and the list goes on and on.
7
Wow. This psychology explains a lot about our current president's supporters!
7
It explains a lot about the blind support liberals gave to the highly ethically challenged Hillary Clinton too. Is Trump worse? Certainly. Did I vote for Clinton? Yes, I did, but only as the lesser of two evils. But I cannot fool myself into thinking I was voting for a good person, only one less bad than the other.
3
Did Tom Brady and the Patriots commit a crime? The evidence presented should have been laughed out of court. Face it, our national tolerance of football in the first place is a prior crime that warps the moral compass of anyone who watches its brain and body-destroying violence. As for role-models of moral integrity, thank God we have the US Congress and our newly-installed Tyrant-in-Chief!
That said, Go Pats! Please don't tell the grandkids I'll be watching.
www.endthemadnessnow.org
That said, Go Pats! Please don't tell the grandkids I'll be watching.
www.endthemadnessnow.org
6
Nobody cares about cheating. The beloved Falcons used to exceed the noise limit when opponents had the ball. Who remembers that? Deflategate happened after Josh McDaniels outsmarted the refs and made them and the rest of the league look stupid. Against Baltimore, when the Ravens defense couldn't figure out who the pass receivers were. Then they later won the Super Bowl by jumping Seattle's last second pass. Another outsmarting.
Nobody wants to look stupid. Instead of staying stupid jealous, try smarten' up!
Nobody wants to look stupid. Instead of staying stupid jealous, try smarten' up!
1
I'm probably taking this article too seriously, but it does seem that the research cited doesn't actually show that people "can't help" believing that their team is in the right, and it's dubious that the principle that a father's defense of his child is not open to criticism is absolute.
1
Explains the Trump supporters too.
Facts don't matter, go Trump is their sick motto.
Facts don't matter, go Trump is their sick motto.
18
Time to go watch some of the strongest men in the USA break each other's bones and give each other concussions and brain damage.
I just hope I don't have to see any player take a knee during the anthem or lady Gaga criticize President Trump.
That would ruin all the fun.
I just hope I don't have to see any player take a knee during the anthem or lady Gaga criticize President Trump.
That would ruin all the fun.
6
I'm a Rams fan. I think they cheated to beat us by filming our practices.
Since they got caught cheating in spygate they haven't won a Super Bowl in the over ten years since.
And for Pats fans, you didn't beat Seattle, they lost on the worst play call in Super Bowl history.
Since they got caught cheating in spygate they haven't won a Super Bowl in the over ten years since.
And for Pats fans, you didn't beat Seattle, they lost on the worst play call in Super Bowl history.
6
LOL. The guy who said they taped the Rams practices was discredited. Your rams barely beat the Titans in the other SB.
Seattle was inside the 5 because a broken up pass landed on a receivers stomach while he was lying on the ground. And Lynch had sucked on short yardage games most of the season.
Oh and the Pats would have won two more superbowls had a guy who never did anything previously and was never in the league again hadn't caught a ball on top of his head, and Wes Welker hadn't dropped an easy pass.
Seattle was inside the 5 because a broken up pass landed on a receivers stomach while he was lying on the ground. And Lynch had sucked on short yardage games most of the season.
Oh and the Pats would have won two more superbowls had a guy who never did anything previously and was never in the league again hadn't caught a ball on top of his head, and Wes Welker hadn't dropped an easy pass.
2
Give me a break.
2
I've always been struck by what seems a contradiction in a football zealot's characterization of a football as a war and his general scorn for cheaters like Bill Bellichick. In a war, a little information collection (spying on the enemy) is always welcome. Why not football? Perhaps because it is only a game after all and the football-as-war tag was cooked up by someone who has never seen combat.
3
Juliet Macur, when was the last time you stopped to think that you might have behaved like the people in the experiment (according to you, everyone does behave this way):
- ignoring some facts (like winning without "cheating"),
- accepting others (like videotaping and deflating), and
- assuming that your chosen facts help a team to win (not proven),
to write the article you set out to write?
- ignoring some facts (like winning without "cheating"),
- accepting others (like videotaping and deflating), and
- assuming that your chosen facts help a team to win (not proven),
to write the article you set out to write?
6
Your story assumes that the balls were deflated by an effort to cheat, when the effect of the temperature on the balls was exactly what 2 Noble award winning scientist, were not Patriots fans, said that it should be. That is why the Colts' ball were under inflated as well.
Maybe the real psychological experiment should be focused on people who deny that they are witnessing the greatest quarterback and coach combination in the history of the game and are so tied to their home team they can face that reality and just enjoy greatness when they see it.
Maybe the real psychological experiment should be focused on people who deny that they are witnessing the greatest quarterback and coach combination in the history of the game and are so tied to their home team they can face that reality and just enjoy greatness when they see it.
9
he is an incredibly great quarterback who almost comically denied his cheating. his denials were amusing at best. i am not judging him for this, only stating what is obvious. i think most times readers realize that winners generally write history, and that many players cheat, like brady, and simply don't get caught.
a cool story would be outing all the ways some of the greatest players have cheated in the past.
a cool story would be outing all the ways some of the greatest players have cheated in the past.
4
It's it's not the cheating, it's the lying about the cheating, that is so annoying.
10
The real question is why does the New York Times is belaboring the nonsense about the air pressure that demonstrably had NO impact on outcomes????? where is the cheating that needs to be excused?
I strongly recommend to Juliet Macur to be less partizan in his criticism. Real cheating is injuring players on purpose.
I strongly recommend to Juliet Macur to be less partizan in his criticism. Real cheating is injuring players on purpose.
4
Apart from wishing that Ray knew how to spell partisan, I'd observe only that the Patriot's compulsion to cheat even when it's unnecessary is the very point. Just as it was when Nixon, although almost guaranteed re-election in 1972, shouldn't have felt the need to burglarize the Democrats' headquarters.
It's all about character — an attribute that's in short supply in Foxborough.
It's all about character — an attribute that's in short supply in Foxborough.
8
Video-gate is not cheating because no one was injured? Interesting theory.
4
14-2 was pure victory with no cheating. Sorry it hurts, all of you so much including Juliet Macur. that I strongly recommend to be less partisan in his criticism. Is this better?
If Pats fans acknowledged their cheating past, they'd have to acknowledge their cheating present. History has shown that if you think that Pats aren't cheating, it just means that you haven't figured out how they're cheating yet.
7
A total waste of editorial space on this day and if it makes everyone feel good to try to put this label on the most successful sports franchise in the country, go for it. In fact, the Patriots got caught cheating once and paid a steep price for it. The Deflategate fiasco was one of the most ridiculous witch hunts in all of sports history. This was a case of a total non-issue turning into a blazing cauldron of revenge enacted by a weak, spineless commissioner as he was prodded by some small-minded owners. If you actually watch the Patriots play week after week after week, and if you know anything about football, you see that their dominance is accomplished on the field by the best QB of all time coached by the greatest coach of all time, a coach who is playing chess while the rest of them are playing checkers. Cheating has zero to do with this and the decision to run this stupid piece on Super Bowl Sunday is shameful.
9
Facts?
1. NFL never cared about ball pressures until it was about the Patriots
2. Wells report is fatally flawed garbage, a rationalisation of weak evidence.
3. Witness Deflategate 2 this year. NFL response: 'These aren't the droids you're looking for.' They knew if they checked the pressures they would paint themselves into a corner. Because if the pressures were low, then their whole argument against Tom Brady falls apart. So they ignored the claim.
4. NFL coaches all videotaped. One coach too successful? Get him!
5. Winners attract haters.
1. NFL never cared about ball pressures until it was about the Patriots
2. Wells report is fatally flawed garbage, a rationalisation of weak evidence.
3. Witness Deflategate 2 this year. NFL response: 'These aren't the droids you're looking for.' They knew if they checked the pressures they would paint themselves into a corner. Because if the pressures were low, then their whole argument against Tom Brady falls apart. So they ignored the claim.
4. NFL coaches all videotaped. One coach too successful? Get him!
5. Winners attract haters.
10
Shout out to Olde England from New England. You hit the nail right on the head.
2
How come Donald Trump has not ask to see Tom Brady's e-mails? Oh, I forgot he likes cheaters.
2
Beli may be a snake but to Pats fans he is their snake -and Pats fans are no different than any other fans -hey it's only football.
4
Pv=nrt. P is pressure, v is volume t is temperature and n and r are constants, so in a ball of constant volume, pressure is proportional to temp. r is the universal gas constant and n is the moles of gas which can be considered a constant inside a football. In short: when the temperature is decreased, air pressure is naturally deflated. That's why you fill your car's tires with air when they're cold. Duh...
4
Brady and Belichick are BFF's with President Trump.
That's enough of a reason for me to be a NE hater!
That's enough of a reason for me to be a NE hater!
13
Bullies and cheaters. No wonder they're friends with The Vulgarian in Chief.
12
Same reason millions of people voted for a thoroughly immoral man for president.
8
3
Teams have been filming each other and altering the balls since I played football in the 1960's.
All of a sudden rule changes made in the mid 2000's make it cheating?
Lets go back and see if the Steelers, Cowboys, and 49 ers were doing back then.
The modern fan is somewhat historically illiterate.
All of a sudden rule changes made in the mid 2000's make it cheating?
Lets go back and see if the Steelers, Cowboys, and 49 ers were doing back then.
The modern fan is somewhat historically illiterate.
5
if it's *not* against the rules, it's not cheating.
if it *is* against the rules it's cheating.
sometimes rules change and something that *wasn't* cheating becomes cheating. do you follow now?
if it *is* against the rules it's cheating.
sometimes rules change and something that *wasn't* cheating becomes cheating. do you follow now?
5
Okay but what about the Patriot haters? Thank god for their rationality.
2
Does consistently losing remove the "shadow" of "cheating" from the Jets?
1
Take a step back for a wider view. Am I the only one who remembers school football players and coaches as total jerks? So who CARES what they do as adults? They see not a penny from me, nor an hour of my time. These are our dregs. What is the MATTER with all of you "fans"?
7
I suggest we hold the actual game on a different network than the Super Bowl Show. I like watching football games. I never watch the half time show, that when do some more cooking or bartending. I ignore super bowl ads the same way i ignore ads during the regular season. We don't need political hype or personality conflicts except those occurring on the field between combatants. Maybe we can play the game the day before or the day after the Super Bowl Show?
2
The Patriots would need to double their cheating and maintain it for decades to match the persistent institutionalized cheating that New York has built it's professional sports teams on.
I am willing to take criticism from Seattle or Atlanta when it comes to cheating, but not New York. Please try to tone down the hypocrisy NYT. I don't pay for my subscription to this newspaper to be called a cheater by the masters of the discipline.
I am willing to take criticism from Seattle or Atlanta when it comes to cheating, but not New York. Please try to tone down the hypocrisy NYT. I don't pay for my subscription to this newspaper to be called a cheater by the masters of the discipline.
6
Having watched New England fans up close through four decades as a New Yorker in exile, I can assure you that the phenomenon extends to the fans of all the Boston/New England teams. The Red Sox fans with reason jeer Alex Rodriguez for taking PEDs. But when the evidence points to David Ortiz, lo, the situational ethicists and the deniers suddenly start quibbling. I write it off to having grown up living with Zip codes that begin with a zero.
3
If the NFL says it's true then it must be true. Just like the tobacco companies who said tobacco is good for you and doesn't cause cancer. Control the media and manipulate the masses. Really disappointing how far the mighty NY Times can fall. Do your research, read the extremely flawed Wells Report (which used the same firm that defended tobacco companies to confirm flawed deflation conclusion). Despite no evidence, debunked by all scientific review regarding ideal gas law, the misinformation campaign of the NFL permeates all media. But I guess I am just a classic New Englander who thinks for himself and tries to avoid manipulation by the NFL. Let's all protect the shield together and frame the Patriots !
4
Uhhhhh....why is choosing the easier task deemed unfair when the test subjects were merely asked to make a choice? There must be some information missing or not fully specified from the description of the experiment.
3
They were supposed to use a coin flip to determine which task to take.
1
It's not the choosing of the easier task. It's the lying about it afterwards that is a notable finding.
Juliet Macur writes: "Yet they keep winning, with a roster full of retreads and spare parts. Could they be skirting the rules even today, in new or undetected ways? Many football fans — nearly all of them outside New England — would not be surprised."
The Times I've long revered’s reduced to unsupported innuendo? There are 32 teams in the NFL. Why wouldn’t evidence they're skirting rules pop out from the league-full of former Patriot coaches? Shame on Meyers and The Times for printing unsupported trash.
The "research" Meyers referred to has no bearing on the Patriots' fans. It's not based on any comparative sample of the attitudes or opinions of Pat fans vs. others. Meyers notes: "science, psychology and experiments aside we do know that love can be blind." The science of Goodell's research has already been in serious doubt as the Gray Lady itself has itself previously made clear:
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/09/sports/football/roger-goodell-nfl-pla...
In the words of The Times' Joe Nocera: "NFL Ignores Ball Deflation Science."
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/23/sports/football/nfl-ignores-ball-defl...
Macur's "science" is a lot flakier than the Pat’s as The Grey Lady archives proves. Were The Times' other writers "in love" or "blind" or should your hatchet lady and her editor be fired?
If you love her, go ahead, keep her on. After all, as Pitiful Poor Macur said: "Love can be blind."
The Times I've long revered’s reduced to unsupported innuendo? There are 32 teams in the NFL. Why wouldn’t evidence they're skirting rules pop out from the league-full of former Patriot coaches? Shame on Meyers and The Times for printing unsupported trash.
The "research" Meyers referred to has no bearing on the Patriots' fans. It's not based on any comparative sample of the attitudes or opinions of Pat fans vs. others. Meyers notes: "science, psychology and experiments aside we do know that love can be blind." The science of Goodell's research has already been in serious doubt as the Gray Lady itself has itself previously made clear:
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/09/sports/football/roger-goodell-nfl-pla...
In the words of The Times' Joe Nocera: "NFL Ignores Ball Deflation Science."
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/23/sports/football/nfl-ignores-ball-defl...
Macur's "science" is a lot flakier than the Pat’s as The Grey Lady archives proves. Were The Times' other writers "in love" or "blind" or should your hatchet lady and her editor be fired?
If you love her, go ahead, keep her on. After all, as Pitiful Poor Macur said: "Love can be blind."
9
A moral compass gone awry? Sounds a lot more like sour grapes and jealousy to me.
4
Same reasons Trump supporters defend Trump no matter what.
They are irrational and they too think the rest of the nation is wrong.
They are irrational and they too think the rest of the nation is wrong.
12
Will - is that opinion based on any actual fact, or is that just your own personal speculation? [g] The rest of the nation, followed headlines all through the Deflategate mess and Patriot fans to a very large degree, read all the coverage, all the documents and made a very real attempt to determine where the truth of the matter was. Nothing irrational about that.
2
We should be more worried about CTE whether we as a society are like the Romans vis-a-vis bread and circuses when we get involved in anything that involves promoting this sport.
5
Great article. It immediately took me back to those arguments I had with my Dad during the Watergate hearings. He was a lifelong Republican who couldn't accept that Nixon had done anything really wrong. When the facts were trotted out on national TV and the newspaper he insisted to the end that Nixon hadn't done anything any other President hadn't done, but they had been Democrats and so escaped persecution. Ah, memories, Thanks!
9
Where are the "facts" here about deflategate? Are you sure that footballs were even deflated? I'm more than willing to admit guilt, but I haven't seen anything convincing.
2
That's because the evidence disappeared with Tom's phone.
2
The author seems to be under the mis-impression that New England cheats more than other teams, or that the most significant things that NE has done had any appreciable impact.
First off, if you check out yourteamcheats.com, you will be able to compare the records of all 32 teams; NE ranks about average.
The two most 'significant' cheats have been the footballs and the cameras. In the case of the footballs, only 1 of 12 footballs was 2 pounds out of range; the remainder were either properly inflated, or within 0.2 psi (or 1.5%) of accepted range.
In the case of the cameras, ("Spygate"), the only issue was the placement of the camera; it was improperly placed by ten yards or so. Not the same as completely unauthorized taping of a practice session, which other teams have been caught doing.
But all those who 'hate' the NE team don't bother with facts, so it must really be about emotion. But what's the unspoken emotion; my guess would be jealousy.
First off, if you check out yourteamcheats.com, you will be able to compare the records of all 32 teams; NE ranks about average.
The two most 'significant' cheats have been the footballs and the cameras. In the case of the footballs, only 1 of 12 footballs was 2 pounds out of range; the remainder were either properly inflated, or within 0.2 psi (or 1.5%) of accepted range.
In the case of the cameras, ("Spygate"), the only issue was the placement of the camera; it was improperly placed by ten yards or so. Not the same as completely unauthorized taping of a practice session, which other teams have been caught doing.
But all those who 'hate' the NE team don't bother with facts, so it must really be about emotion. But what's the unspoken emotion; my guess would be jealousy.
12
Yeah, this isn't exactly journalism, is it?
1
Ironically the author mentioned your very rationalization you start your first sentence with.
4
Thank you for admitting the Patriots do cheat, that's a good first step to dealing with their cheating problem.
3
This isn't much of a scientific experiment as I see it, as the universe of those being tested is drawn from a small a small geography, and this universe has demonstrated it will support a cheating team. Maybe the right conclusion from the study is that it's just people who live in the New England area that are cheaters and support cheaters...Maybe supporting the NE team has caused the cheating behaviour in the experiment - if you live in this geography, it would be socially anathema not to support the local team and you would be ostracised. So it's necessary to learn to ignore inconvenient facts - and this mindset carries over to other actions the fans undertake such as this test. I would hesitate to use this limited experiment to over extrapolate the behaviour of "all of us".
I am no expert, but since we are offering opinions: Deflate Gate would not have occurred if the sensible option of having teams play with the same set of balls, managed by the referees.
Has everyone heard the podcast on Pop Warner on Radio Lab? see http://www.radiolab.org/story/football/
Has everyone heard the podcast on Pop Warner on Radio Lab? see http://www.radiolab.org/story/football/
1
As a Patriots fan, I do not "excuse the Patriot's cheating past" as this article claims. Yes, they cheated. What drives me and other Pats fans crazy however is that fans of other teams like to act as if no other team cheats. Guess what? Coach Tomlin tried to trip an opposing player. The Falcons and Colts were punished for using fake crowd noise. Players from all teams are busted all of the time for using banned substances. According to the website yourteamcheats, the Patriots are no where near the top of cheating offenders. The Patriots are clearly picked on for being the best and because their coach and quarterback come off as unlikable, which admittedly they probably are. Any fan of most any other team who says that they wouldn't have been overjoyed to have Brady and Belichick on their team these past 15 years instead of the Patriots is as delusional as this article claims Patriots fans are.
10
I ran the NYRR Gridiron race today and we had to run through chutes to express our support for either the Falcons or the Patriots. I was torn cause I am so disheartened by Trump and rightly and wrongly I can't understand how any rational being would support him. However, all (Jones, Mara, Johnson etc.) owners of football teams except the Packers are in a very Trumpian world of predator privilege that one can only expect his world to dominate. So all things being equal and my son so loves the Patriots, I ran through the Patriot chute.
4
In case, you are unaware, Robert Kraft has been asked in an interview why he is friends with Trump and here was his answer….
"When [Kraft's wife] Myra died [in 2011], Melania [Trump] and Donald came up to the funeral in our synagogue, then they came for memorial week to visit with me," Kraft told Gary Myers of the New York Daily News. "Then he called me once a week for the whole year, the most depressing year of my life when I was down and out. He called me every week to see how I was doing, invited me to things, tried to lift my spirits. He was one of five or six people that were like that. I remember that."
I don't know about you, but if I had a friend who stuck by me in that way, I would not be rejecting them because we had different political views.
"When [Kraft's wife] Myra died [in 2011], Melania [Trump] and Donald came up to the funeral in our synagogue, then they came for memorial week to visit with me," Kraft told Gary Myers of the New York Daily News. "Then he called me once a week for the whole year, the most depressing year of my life when I was down and out. He called me every week to see how I was doing, invited me to things, tried to lift my spirits. He was one of five or six people that were like that. I remember that."
I don't know about you, but if I had a friend who stuck by me in that way, I would not be rejecting them because we had different political views.
5
Great article and great study by the Professor. Sadly, I fear one can extend these incites to our Nation's general ethicical belief system (with some exceptions) particularly amongst the powerful - but the playing field would be Wall Street, and the White House, and Congress (and on both sides of the aisle). Even many of my most liberal friends (with whom this commenter identifies) can't seem to own up to truths that might upend the higher moral authority with which they/we regard our own views - for instance, our Democratic National Commitee's unethical treatment of Bernie Sanders candidacy, or even, say, our secret history (upwards of 75 years) of unethical actions in South America and the Middle East, to name but a few. We judge those seeking nuclear armaments - yet we're the only country who's used them in war. The tacit opinion is we are "in the right" , "responsible" - but why should another Nation feel that way -
With Sports - it feels less like ethics perhaps - more like locker room behavior - getting the edge -so to speak. And now - it seems - whatever happens (is said or done) in the locker room - no matter how egregious - is permissible. As long as you win.
Well I'm rooting for Atlanta - but I'm not betting any money on them- it's hard to beat a cheat.
With Sports - it feels less like ethics perhaps - more like locker room behavior - getting the edge -so to speak. And now - it seems - whatever happens (is said or done) in the locker room - no matter how egregious - is permissible. As long as you win.
Well I'm rooting for Atlanta - but I'm not betting any money on them- it's hard to beat a cheat.
3
The author assumes that the evidence in both these cases proved wrongdoing by the Patriots. The Deflategate evidence is very flimsy, and does not justify Brady's suspension. Filming other teams has apparently been widely done in the NFL--the Pats were just caught at it. Other teams were not. This whole article is based on a NY fantasy, designed to make the achievements of the Patriots seem compromised. Shame on the author.
10
Yet, another thinly veiled anti-Trump article. Seriously, all the news in the world, and all the resources of the Times, although those resources are dwindling rapidly, and Trump is the fixation.
The same reason people dismiss Bill Clinton's affairs, Hillary's actions as Secretary of State, and Trump's comments about women. People excuse their hero's. They do not want to admit they are flawed, and they don't want to be perceived as supporting people with flaws. We expect our heroes to be better than we are. And,we don't want to be associated with our heroes' flaws.
Personally, I think Brady and Belichik should have been banned, for life, as MLB banned Pete Rose. But, the lesson there is money. They bring in too much money for the NFL, where viewer and fans are decreasing.
With respect to sports, the fault is ours for seeking inappropriate heroes, and elevating them to Godlike status, with Godlike pay.
My father was a POW in a German camp for 33 months. I never had to look anywhere but home to find a hero.
The same reason people dismiss Bill Clinton's affairs, Hillary's actions as Secretary of State, and Trump's comments about women. People excuse their hero's. They do not want to admit they are flawed, and they don't want to be perceived as supporting people with flaws. We expect our heroes to be better than we are. And,we don't want to be associated with our heroes' flaws.
Personally, I think Brady and Belichik should have been banned, for life, as MLB banned Pete Rose. But, the lesson there is money. They bring in too much money for the NFL, where viewer and fans are decreasing.
With respect to sports, the fault is ours for seeking inappropriate heroes, and elevating them to Godlike status, with Godlike pay.
My father was a POW in a German camp for 33 months. I never had to look anywhere but home to find a hero.
4
This article wasn't about Trump. Do cognitive biases play a role in politics? Yes, but so do many, many, many things. If the style section runs a piece on clothing... it isn't about necessarily about Trump. When the real estate section talks about... real estate development ... it isn't about Trump. etc...
4
If the women of America can excuse locker room talk....then whomever can excuse a little bit of alleged ball deflating.....
2
Trump would definitely NOT call your father a hero, but I would
2
Sports are about winning even if you have to cheat. It's better not to be caught, but it simply doesn't matter to fans as long as the team wins.
6
Rooting for Patriots is like rooting for Donald Trump.
As Bill Maher so eloquently put it: Go Falcons!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1QthkJVqDI
As Bill Maher so eloquently put it: Go Falcons!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1QthkJVqDI
7
Couldn't agreed more!
2
I think the question that needs to be asked is why are people complaining about the Patriots when none of their alleged misdeeds has led them to the success that they have had, but, instead, have it because of a combination of recruiting, talent, and coaching.
3
If the illegal actions did not help the team but cost them draft picks and fines, then they are even more moronic then the national perception!
3
The _alleged_ illegal actions didn't help them. Just look at deflategate. Who benefited from the deflated balls.... Indianapolis apparently. In the first half of the 2014-15 AFC Championship - the half with the deflated balls - the score was 17-7 New England. In the second half with normal balls, the scoring was 21-0 New England. So, Indy couldn't even score with normal balls while New England did better with normal balls. So, yeah, New England really loves to play with deflated footballs...
Whereas not reporting that you evaded the salary cap ( SF & Denver ) is not so bad.
1
"Just being a part of a group, any group, is enough to excuse moral transgressions because in some way, you’re benefiting from it. Your moral compass shifts."
Hello Republicans. Enjoy the game.
Hello Republicans. Enjoy the game.
2
I believe the phrase you're so desperately searching for is . . . Winning is everything. What's left besides everything? No excuses are necessary.
1
Cheating is a part of sports, and always has been. I am more familiar with baseball. Individual players get involved with PEDs. Groundskeepers adjust grass and field gradients to keep bunts in, or out, of fair territory, depending on whether the home team has, or does not have, a good small ball game. I seem to remember, at Giants Stadium, somebody would open or close a door at the end of the stadium to strategically alter wind conditions on the field depending on the situation. Players have been stealing signals for years. In auto racing, trying to get away with illegal modifications to the cars is routine.
In basketball, players try to make small incidental contact look like major, on the court assaults to get a four call that is undeserved.
I remember, a generation ago, when that kid reached below the fence to grab a fly ball that could have been caught, to turn it into an undeserved home run in a playoff game against the Orioles, the New York press and Yankee fans thought it amusing, and not a miscarriage of sports justice.
Instant replay has helped to correct some of the officiating errors, but organized cheating seems to be accepted, so long as it is your team doing the cheating and getting away with it.
In basketball, players try to make small incidental contact look like major, on the court assaults to get a four call that is undeserved.
I remember, a generation ago, when that kid reached below the fence to grab a fly ball that could have been caught, to turn it into an undeserved home run in a playoff game against the Orioles, the New York press and Yankee fans thought it amusing, and not a miscarriage of sports justice.
Instant replay has helped to correct some of the officiating errors, but organized cheating seems to be accepted, so long as it is your team doing the cheating and getting away with it.
7
On Deflategate: what is not admitted is that Tom Brady, at minimum, destroyed evidence and failed to cooperate with an NFL investigation. The Wells Report-- although its forensic evidence has been successfully challenged-- also establishes that Brady and Pats equipment managers went to considerable lengths to alter the air pressure of footballs, perhaps to illegal levels, on some occasions.
The evidence hardly exonerates the Patriots' conduct.
The evidence hardly exonerates the Patriots' conduct.
4
Phoeey and other words that can't be posted in the comments.
Brady was told by Wells his cell phone was not needed and he disposed of it in the normal manner he does his phones. Goodell, like a rat in a corner, then used that to justify his punishment. Let's not forget it's the 21st century, and your text message records exist somewhere besides your phone, in fact, Brady gave his text records to the NFL...
Brady was told by Wells his cell phone was not needed and he disposed of it in the normal manner he does his phones. Goodell, like a rat in a corner, then used that to justify his punishment. Let's not forget it's the 21st century, and your text message records exist somewhere besides your phone, in fact, Brady gave his text records to the NFL...
6
Brady did not destroy evidence. He was told his phone was no longer needed. Furthermore the NFL has no right to see his personal phone. They do not have subpoena powers. There are any number of reasons why he might refuse to hand over his phone:
1. He is subject to the rules of the CBA (Collective Bargaining Agreement) signed with the NFL. The CBA does not give the NFL the right to see his phone. Turning over his phone would be a bad precedent to establish. Other players have refused to turn over their phones without punishment.
2. He is a superstar player with a superstar model wife. The NFL consistently demonstrated that it could not prevent leaks of private information.
Cooperating with an investigation conducted with integrity might make sense. Cooperating with an unfair investigation whose aim is to find you guilty makes no sense at all.
Finally, the Wells Investigation established no such thing at all. And there is not a thing wrong with altered the pressure of footballs to within legal limits as long as it is done before the refs test them. There is not a shred of evidence Brady participated in anything other than that.
1. He is subject to the rules of the CBA (Collective Bargaining Agreement) signed with the NFL. The CBA does not give the NFL the right to see his phone. Turning over his phone would be a bad precedent to establish. Other players have refused to turn over their phones without punishment.
2. He is a superstar player with a superstar model wife. The NFL consistently demonstrated that it could not prevent leaks of private information.
Cooperating with an investigation conducted with integrity might make sense. Cooperating with an unfair investigation whose aim is to find you guilty makes no sense at all.
Finally, the Wells Investigation established no such thing at all. And there is not a thing wrong with altered the pressure of footballs to within legal limits as long as it is done before the refs test them. There is not a shred of evidence Brady participated in anything other than that.
5
Native Bostonian, here. The Patriots cheated in 2007 and, at minimum, skated right up to the line in Deflategate. Whatever their football prowess (and, yes, it is outsized), they have tarnished it irredeemably.
Would be nice to see the Pats try something new: commit to rigorously ethical behavior. That would be worthy of respect.
Would be nice to see the Pats try something new: commit to rigorously ethical behavior. That would be worthy of respect.
11
You admit that there is a line. Did they go over it? I don't think so. Rules are in black and white, you either violated the rules and should be punished, or you skate up to the line and get on with playing. If they cheated, like many claim, then come forward with the evidence and disqualify them from playing. I get a bit tired of people hating on a great team. I am not a Pat's fan, I am a Seahawk fan, but I recognize a great football team and system. Say what you will, Kraft has put together a killer team.
3
Being a native Bostonian and not following the coverage on Deflatgate enough to realize that no one deflated any footballs or destroyed evidence, is so much worse, then being a New York newspaper with the same opinion.
Speaking of cheaters, how are the Yankees doing?
10
"Yet they keep winning"..... And there lies the age old problem!!!
2
Sports fans are a curious bunch to me. They spend so much time worrying or concerning themselves about events that have no practical implications in their lives, all the while handing over large portions of their resources to billionaire owners and multimillionaire players. And they literally grovel to these guys they will never know and likely never even meet!
It's a mental disorder.
It's a mental disorder.
17
That pretty much sums it up right there.
2
By matching this study with election exit poll results, the researchers determined that those who excuse the Patriot's cheating are the same voters who also excused Trump's lying.
My jaw dropped when I read the preliminary report, which is scheduled to be released to the press on April 1.
My jaw dropped when I read the preliminary report, which is scheduled to be released to the press on April 1.
5
Free will is an illusion. This applies to wrongdoers too.
The Steelers have played in eight Super Bowls, winning six of them, including four in six years. !!!!
Our country has been taken over by the Republican Faction that is installing a Fascist Theocracy of supreme white rule as we speak. Sorry, but I will not be watching this childish game. I will go as far to say that any one that watches is showing their support for Trump and the racist republican faction (republicans, all republicans, are no longer a legitimate party, they are traitors and enemies of the US).
6
Lighten up Francis.
2
Boy, you are going to be disappointed when billions of people tune in, essentially "showing their support for Trump". Based on your analysis, Trump will be the most popular President in history.
2
It’s startling how unfair this article is to both the Patriots and their fan base, whom I liken to “high-information voters” when it comes to Patriots matters. More motivated than the rest of the nation to look closely at Deflategate, Patriots fans actually read the Wells report and followed the ongoing stream of evidence that eventually exposed the scandal as a series of flimsy, unsubstantiated charges—whereas fans of other teams, “low-information voters” about the Patriots, supported their tribes by just repeating the tabloid headlines that branded the Patriots as cheaters.
That all makes sense. The only real question is why did the author of this piece so thoughtlessly align herself with the low-information Patriots “haters,” and why did the New York Times give the piece such prominence in their newspaper? Could it be that the "elitist" Times, taking a page from Roger Goodell’s playbook, found it convenient to score some cheap points with America's football illiterati on Super Bowl Sunday by throwing Tom Brady and company under the bus?
That all makes sense. The only real question is why did the author of this piece so thoughtlessly align herself with the low-information Patriots “haters,” and why did the New York Times give the piece such prominence in their newspaper? Could it be that the "elitist" Times, taking a page from Roger Goodell’s playbook, found it convenient to score some cheap points with America's football illiterati on Super Bowl Sunday by throwing Tom Brady and company under the bus?
24
Let me begin this by saying that I am neither a Patriots fan nor a fan of the NFL. The article is right that Patriots cheated in 2007 when they were caught filming other teams. Period. There should be no argument about that.
But I feel compelled to defend Patriots fans who are defending Tom Brady when it comes to "Deflategate." A good, sound analysis--using the Ideal Gas Law--of Deflategate shows that the Patriots are most likely innocent: http://www.si.com/nfl/2016/10/04/tom-brady-deflategate-ideal-gas-law
So now we have a team that cheated ten years ago and was correctly punished for it. What are Patriots fans supposed to do? Stop rooting for their team because they cheated ten years ago?
But I feel compelled to defend Patriots fans who are defending Tom Brady when it comes to "Deflategate." A good, sound analysis--using the Ideal Gas Law--of Deflategate shows that the Patriots are most likely innocent: http://www.si.com/nfl/2016/10/04/tom-brady-deflategate-ideal-gas-law
So now we have a team that cheated ten years ago and was correctly punished for it. What are Patriots fans supposed to do? Stop rooting for their team because they cheated ten years ago?
9
So wait, the TImes is lecturing others on not being able to stop being biased?
Heal thyself, "journalist".
Heal thyself, "journalist".
7
February 5, 2017
For the love of the games of life: from the ball to the oval office...
"Doubt thou the stars are fire; Doubt that the sun doth move; Doubt truth to be a liar; But never doubt I love." William Shakespeare
jja Manhattan, N.Y.
For the love of the games of life: from the ball to the oval office...
"Doubt thou the stars are fire; Doubt that the sun doth move; Doubt truth to be a liar; But never doubt I love." William Shakespeare
jja Manhattan, N.Y.
2
Apparently the art of cheating is alive and well in the USA. If a country can nominate and elect a pathological liar what hope do we have for sport? In my life, and it has been long, America is a depressing place to be. We are back to the sixties when every week is a series of protests.
5
Very flimsy argument.
First, my bona fides. New York area native, Boston area resident for 25 years, still a fan of NYC teams. Rooted for the Giants when they beat the Pats (hah! twice!), wore my Yankees cap to the 2003 Yanks - Red Sox game at Fenway AFTER the Zimmer - Martinez rhubarb game. So I absorb all the local stuff, but with a grain of salt.
Let's be honest. The Pats probably bend the same rules that all the other teams do. But they probably do it in a maximal, organized, and consistent manner -- like they plan, scout, practice, and prepare in general.
The key passage for me is: "Outside New England... The Patriots are considered unrepentant cheaters... Yet they keep winning, with a roster full of retreads and spare parts. Could they be skirting the rules even today, in new or undetected ways? Many football fans — nearly all of them outside New England — would not be surprised."
Maybe. Or maybe they are just a better organization and a better football team. And maybe the self-deluding tribalism is on the other side of the line of scrimmage, among the jealous Pats haters. Just like Pats fans who will NEVER see cheating even where it exists, the above quote suggests that many Pats haters will ALWAYS see cheating, even where it doesn't.
First, my bona fides. New York area native, Boston area resident for 25 years, still a fan of NYC teams. Rooted for the Giants when they beat the Pats (hah! twice!), wore my Yankees cap to the 2003 Yanks - Red Sox game at Fenway AFTER the Zimmer - Martinez rhubarb game. So I absorb all the local stuff, but with a grain of salt.
Let's be honest. The Pats probably bend the same rules that all the other teams do. But they probably do it in a maximal, organized, and consistent manner -- like they plan, scout, practice, and prepare in general.
The key passage for me is: "Outside New England... The Patriots are considered unrepentant cheaters... Yet they keep winning, with a roster full of retreads and spare parts. Could they be skirting the rules even today, in new or undetected ways? Many football fans — nearly all of them outside New England — would not be surprised."
Maybe. Or maybe they are just a better organization and a better football team. And maybe the self-deluding tribalism is on the other side of the line of scrimmage, among the jealous Pats haters. Just like Pats fans who will NEVER see cheating even where it exists, the above quote suggests that many Pats haters will ALWAYS see cheating, even where it doesn't.
8
Maybe Macur should have read this times article before she published today's.
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/23/sports/football/nfl-ignores-ball-defl...
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/23/sports/football/nfl-ignores-ball-defl...
10
Or this:
https://wellsreportcontext.com/
https://wellsreportcontext.com/
Scoring during first half with deflated ball: Patriots 17, Colts 7. Scoring during second half with inflated ball: Patriots 28, Colts 0. Final: Patriots 45 Colts 7. Need I say more?
9
Wow the NYT whining about the cheating Patriots. I'm shocked I tell you, Shocked!!!!
7
Where was the lament of the New York Times when Donna Brazile was feeding debate questions in advance to the Clinton campaign?
6
Why do fans CARE about cheating pasts? How can fans tell when cheating occurs? The players, so-called, probably take a number to get in line for it.....there is so much of it and so common, the players should demand a raise for the most skilled ones who can do it without being caught. Since it goes on in so many endeavors, why should fans have to pay big, big bucks to see it. Talk about rip-offs! The fact that it is so common does not make it any more degrading and "slimy", does it? And the author should not limit her comments to pro-football......
1
Another way of saying this is that people are known by the company they keep. Bill Belichick, Tom Brady, and Robert Kraft are good friends with Donald Trump.
6
Yes and so were the Clintons.
1
The balls being deflated was a complete which hunt , Physics was to blame , but this paper does not like the facts of physics or any other facts
8
I can accept the Pats cheat and stretch the rules. But this story doesn't examine the corollary; fans in other parts of the country may overstate the Patriots' offenses and dishonesty for the same, flip-side of reasons why Patriots fans are irrationally supportive. For New England, Pats are the in group. For others, Pats are the out group. All sports dynasties have been despised by outsiders.
6
coach, owner, qb- friends of trump.
7
This is an easy one, because the Patriots didn't cheat.
5
Well here's the problem 21 prominent scientists have proved nothing happened. The writer presumes guilt along with many in the media.
5
There is no surprise here, really. It is typical hypocritical human behavior. Look at the very devout evangelicals who blithely ignore Trumps divorces and marriages. Look at very conservative politicians who call on the almighty to defend our Constitution and then ignore Trump's very obviously trample of it. There is nothing new here. So why not extend that to sports and football. We all, both liberals and conservatives, very easily mind split and do not think critically.
Ok I am not a fan of Tom Brady but I do recognize that he is still a great QB, he will be in the Hall of Fame one of these days. I think Deflategate was much overblown. I seriously doubt that the slight reduction in air pressure would have much effect on Brady's passing game, which is superb with a ball with normal pressure. That was basically a Red Herring and much ado about nothing. Haters are gonna hate.
Ok I am not a fan of Tom Brady but I do recognize that he is still a great QB, he will be in the Hall of Fame one of these days. I think Deflategate was much overblown. I seriously doubt that the slight reduction in air pressure would have much effect on Brady's passing game, which is superb with a ball with normal pressure. That was basically a Red Herring and much ado about nothing. Haters are gonna hate.
6
"I seriously doubt that the slight reduction in air pressure would have much effect on Brady's passing game"
It makes a huge difference. The ball indents under your fingers maybe 3mm but that is a huge difference to an elite quarterback. I only played peewee football as a QB and even I loooved under-inflated footballs.
When we would play at recess, we would intentionally use underinflated balls because they are way easier both to throw and to catch.
People who think deflate-gate wasn't a big deal have probably never played football for a few years.
It makes a huge difference. The ball indents under your fingers maybe 3mm but that is a huge difference to an elite quarterback. I only played peewee football as a QB and even I loooved under-inflated footballs.
When we would play at recess, we would intentionally use underinflated balls because they are way easier both to throw and to catch.
People who think deflate-gate wasn't a big deal have probably never played football for a few years.
Perhaps for the amateur or in Pee-Wee league underinflated balls may be more fun. However, for elite QBs, such as Brady, I seriously doubt that it added much. Look at his overall record as a QB, he is a tremendous passer. It is not just passing but reading defenses that is also important. I am sorry, I just don't buy into Deflategate as some serious boost to Brady's abilities.
As I said, I am not a fan of Tom Brady, I am a Seahawks fan, but I hate to see this dumping on a great QB. He may have faults, either on the field or in his personal life, but I don't they are all that serious. Just admit it, Brady is a great QB.
As I said, I am not a fan of Tom Brady, I am a Seahawks fan, but I hate to see this dumping on a great QB. He may have faults, either on the field or in his personal life, but I don't they are all that serious. Just admit it, Brady is a great QB.
Not sure you caught the score in the second half of that game?
Because they celebrate the past, starting with plowgate.
1982, the snowplow game, the driver was on a work furlough.
The John Deere and plow are in the Pat's museum.
1982, the snowplow game, the driver was on a work furlough.
The John Deere and plow are in the Pat's museum.
Hey, If you can't beat em, cheat em!
3
And that worked out real well for the other teams, right??
Why do Patriots fans excuse the cheating and lying? Same reason the Trump fans excuse the cheating and lying.
Senseless, irrational loyalty.
Senseless, irrational loyalty.
7
And the same goes for Hillary and Bill fans.
2
"With an allegiance like that, built over years and years of fandom, the Patriots could basically be caught with 22 players on the field and have their fans justify it, somehow, someway."
There is so much pop-psych and hyperbole in this article its astounding, except for the fact that it is coming out of NY by a writer who....
Well, anyway, the real issue isn't the cheating, its the perception that everything the Patriots do is cheating, and that is a view perpetuated by the media. In the case of spygate, yes that was admitted to... but what else? The football deflation was due entirely to physics... oh yeah, I forgot, we are a nation where science doesn't count for anything more than a million dollar opinion, physicists at Harvard don't know anything more about the subject than some dudes in a law office.
This newspaper among others refuses to acknowledge that the physicists might be right and that there was no cheating. So maybe the psychologists should have been looking at the question from the other side, which in fact they did, oh but wait, that doesn't fit the narrative of the Patriots being cheaters and their fans supporting them no matter what.
But then, that's what pop-psychology is all about....
There is so much pop-psych and hyperbole in this article its astounding, except for the fact that it is coming out of NY by a writer who....
Well, anyway, the real issue isn't the cheating, its the perception that everything the Patriots do is cheating, and that is a view perpetuated by the media. In the case of spygate, yes that was admitted to... but what else? The football deflation was due entirely to physics... oh yeah, I forgot, we are a nation where science doesn't count for anything more than a million dollar opinion, physicists at Harvard don't know anything more about the subject than some dudes in a law office.
This newspaper among others refuses to acknowledge that the physicists might be right and that there was no cheating. So maybe the psychologists should have been looking at the question from the other side, which in fact they did, oh but wait, that doesn't fit the narrative of the Patriots being cheaters and their fans supporting them no matter what.
But then, that's what pop-psychology is all about....
4
They excuse the cheating past for the same reason Trump's voters excuse him, and Clinton's voters (lest the sanctimonious liberals of the NYT forget) excuse Hillary and Bill.
7
A completely biased take about being biased.
Fans can be biased. A survey taken after Deflategate showed two things. First, where you lived often determined what you believed about it, and second, the more people actually knew about the facts, the more likely were they too think Brady innocent.
Despite ignorant statements that he "cheated," Brady wasn't even accused of that, but of being "generally aware" of "inappropriate activity," a standard was never applied before or since. Imagine if all players were liable for knowing some teammates used steroids? There would be no teams.
I don't know what TB knew. I'd be disappointed if it turned out he knew b/c everything else about him indicates to me that he is one of the most decent people in any sport. I've never heard him speak badly about his opponents, even when they deserve it and his teammates rave about him.
And, lets not ignore that at least 4 physics professors who have looked at this have said the NFL screwed up the testing and that there was no evidence of deflation. I can't understand the physics, but its out there.
Also, about 2007. The Pats got in trouble not for videotaping, but for doing from the wrong place - not during a game, after their opponents did it to them. This year, the Giants got in trouble for using illegal communicators during an actual game - what's worse?
In short, phooey. Some fans are just jealous of the Pats/Brady. I like teams b/c of what they are, not b/c of where I live.
Go Pats!
Fans can be biased. A survey taken after Deflategate showed two things. First, where you lived often determined what you believed about it, and second, the more people actually knew about the facts, the more likely were they too think Brady innocent.
Despite ignorant statements that he "cheated," Brady wasn't even accused of that, but of being "generally aware" of "inappropriate activity," a standard was never applied before or since. Imagine if all players were liable for knowing some teammates used steroids? There would be no teams.
I don't know what TB knew. I'd be disappointed if it turned out he knew b/c everything else about him indicates to me that he is one of the most decent people in any sport. I've never heard him speak badly about his opponents, even when they deserve it and his teammates rave about him.
And, lets not ignore that at least 4 physics professors who have looked at this have said the NFL screwed up the testing and that there was no evidence of deflation. I can't understand the physics, but its out there.
Also, about 2007. The Pats got in trouble not for videotaping, but for doing from the wrong place - not during a game, after their opponents did it to them. This year, the Giants got in trouble for using illegal communicators during an actual game - what's worse?
In short, phooey. Some fans are just jealous of the Pats/Brady. I like teams b/c of what they are, not b/c of where I live.
Go Pats!
13
David, thank you for your reasonable attitude, as a Pat's fan who has had more than their fill of criticism, I really appreciate it. Just to add to what you said, there were also 21 expert scientists from around the country from the best schools in the country, who testified in an amicus brief to the court, that the evidence did not support any other conclusion but that the deflation of the footballs was due to physics. So anyone who still believes otherwise, are on the side or irrationality in the face of actual facts and evidence. But that doesn't stop them from attacking the Patriots and their fans relentlessly.
you're really writing about why people still support trump, right? if trump is the leader of "their tribe", either he doesn't cheat or his cheating doesn't matter, as long as it leads to "winning."
but all people don't think this way. not everyone's human nature is to support cheating. and cheating personalities only support winners, right?
please do a similar study in which "moral leniency" is measured in both "winning" and "losing" environments. do you think patriot fans would remain loyal if the patriots went 0-16?
so the key to those fearful of trump and repub soul-sellers is to "defeat him", first in court and second in comedy outlets like s.n.l.--where millions of people laugh at him.
but all people don't think this way. not everyone's human nature is to support cheating. and cheating personalities only support winners, right?
please do a similar study in which "moral leniency" is measured in both "winning" and "losing" environments. do you think patriot fans would remain loyal if the patriots went 0-16?
so the key to those fearful of trump and repub soul-sellers is to "defeat him", first in court and second in comedy outlets like s.n.l.--where millions of people laugh at him.
6
I have come to the conclusion that the NY Times will take every opportunity, real or contrived to take a shot at Trump, and truth, or real news, doesn't matter. Hence, the puzzle section is the strongest.
We will never read about the issues with a government established universal poverty level, even though living in Mississippi is much less expensive than NYC, or NJ. An interesting situation, given that they recognize the cost of living difference in federal pay scales.
We won't read how lawsuits brought against supervisors by local, state, and federal employees impact taxpayers when the employee is deemed right. We won't read about the number of kids in foster care or the challenges and benefits of adoption. We won't read about our communities, unless they are somehow connected to Trump. We won't read about the ridiculous standards the Obama administration made for dishwashers, one the manufacturers said could not produce a machine that worked. We will just read about hate, in almost every article, every issue, every day.
We will never read about the issues with a government established universal poverty level, even though living in Mississippi is much less expensive than NYC, or NJ. An interesting situation, given that they recognize the cost of living difference in federal pay scales.
We won't read how lawsuits brought against supervisors by local, state, and federal employees impact taxpayers when the employee is deemed right. We won't read about the number of kids in foster care or the challenges and benefits of adoption. We won't read about our communities, unless they are somehow connected to Trump. We won't read about the ridiculous standards the Obama administration made for dishwashers, one the manufacturers said could not produce a machine that worked. We will just read about hate, in almost every article, every issue, every day.
2
This article via comments is really part of another psychological experiment to see how many people can see the similarity in the premises here and the ends to which Trump supporters will stand by their man
5
It's more like an experiment to see how many pathologically negative people will associate a purely sports-related article with their own political views. Sad...
2
What do Donald Trump and Tom Brady have in common? I'll let you answer.
10
Macur ends her screed with "THESE [my emphasis] people just can't help it."
What is it with The Times? There is always a THEM or THEY or OTHER at the end of the Times' indictments. THOSE people just don't have the advanced moral facilities humbly possessed by Times Nation. And to prove this law of nature, we have the first rate, peer reviewed research based on a "study" of students enrolled in an introductory psych course at Northeastern.
To be fair, I am sure that the fack that Belicheat and Brady leaned against The Times' anointed candidate had nothing to do with this rehash of old news appearing on game day.
What is it with The Times? There is always a THEM or THEY or OTHER at the end of the Times' indictments. THOSE people just don't have the advanced moral facilities humbly possessed by Times Nation. And to prove this law of nature, we have the first rate, peer reviewed research based on a "study" of students enrolled in an introductory psych course at Northeastern.
To be fair, I am sure that the fack that Belicheat and Brady leaned against The Times' anointed candidate had nothing to do with this rehash of old news appearing on game day.
2
This is such a flimsy argument! As a Boston fan, I always suspected the worst of the Yankees and jumped on any hint that they were cheating or enjoying unfair advantages. I wasn't rational or disinterested, as you seem to think fans of other NFL teams are being in this case. It is very simplistic on your part to assume that the irrationality of "human nature" only applies to the accused group and not to the groups of accusers. Also, since you seem to be implying that patriots fans are symptomatic of a "post-truth" age, I wonder whether you earnestly believe that the NFL's internal investigation procedures actually produce something akin to objective Truth. If you do, you might be suffering from the effects of a concussion.
7
Its something about Boston. I remember the Celtics from the old Lakers Celtics collisions. There were never bigger whiners than Celtic fans, even when a foul was obvious the AWWW chorus from the stands was just cringe inducing. Ainge, McHale were among the dirtiest players in NBA history, Bird not so much. There's a story I'll never forget that Pat Riley tells of how the visitor's locker room at the Garden always had a malfunction with the air conditioning. That cheap edge seems to be acceptable territory where winning is a pathology that goes beyond sport.
3
Oh let’s add to the legend.
That Boston parquet floor? Yeah it had “dead spots” where the ball didn’t bounce as well. The Celtics, especially Bird, all knew them and knew how to force the opposition to those spots--easy steal!
Bird not so much? Are you kidding? He was ferocious and didn’t care who he hurt! I LOVED HIM!
I personally knew Kevin, DJ, ML Carr, (Ainge, not so much--as a University of Utah fan I HAD to hate Danny Ainge--he played at BYU!) and they played hard.
Perhaps you’re thinking of Bill Laimbeer of the Pistons, John Stockton of the Jazz, Charles Oakley, Dennis Rodman...
http://www.foxsports.com/nba/gallery/draymond-green-nba-dirtiest-players...
Look. “Dirty” is in the eye of the beholder! I will always HATE Michael Jordan for his DIRTY offensive foul against MY Jazz to win the NBA championship.
Of interest? 99.9% of people thought that was one of MJ’s GREATEST plays ever! Had the flu and a temp of 104 and still got through the Jazz defense to score an AMAZING end to end dribble and goal.
As I said--“dirt” depends on which one is on YOUR team!
I had mid court, front row seats (“Thigh high” level) for my Utah Jazz. These guys are YUGE! Fighting through a pro defense is equivalent to watching a goal line stand with a loaded box! Ice Hockey and the NFL have NOTHING on the bruising these guys inflict and take in the NBA--and these guys don’t have pads and helmets.
That Boston parquet floor? Yeah it had “dead spots” where the ball didn’t bounce as well. The Celtics, especially Bird, all knew them and knew how to force the opposition to those spots--easy steal!
Bird not so much? Are you kidding? He was ferocious and didn’t care who he hurt! I LOVED HIM!
I personally knew Kevin, DJ, ML Carr, (Ainge, not so much--as a University of Utah fan I HAD to hate Danny Ainge--he played at BYU!) and they played hard.
Perhaps you’re thinking of Bill Laimbeer of the Pistons, John Stockton of the Jazz, Charles Oakley, Dennis Rodman...
http://www.foxsports.com/nba/gallery/draymond-green-nba-dirtiest-players...
Look. “Dirty” is in the eye of the beholder! I will always HATE Michael Jordan for his DIRTY offensive foul against MY Jazz to win the NBA championship.
Of interest? 99.9% of people thought that was one of MJ’s GREATEST plays ever! Had the flu and a temp of 104 and still got through the Jazz defense to score an AMAZING end to end dribble and goal.
As I said--“dirt” depends on which one is on YOUR team!
I had mid court, front row seats (“Thigh high” level) for my Utah Jazz. These guys are YUGE! Fighting through a pro defense is equivalent to watching a goal line stand with a loaded box! Ice Hockey and the NFL have NOTHING on the bruising these guys inflict and take in the NBA--and these guys don’t have pads and helmets.
1
Wow!
What a SUPERB psychological study! NOT the article but the comments show that NO ONE READS ANYMORE!!
HA! 90% of the comments prove that the “click-bait” headline (to them) was all they needed to get so angry they HAD to defend their team!
Thank you for the unintended circumstance that NO ONE READS ANYMORE IN AMERICA! Click-bait headlines are most people’s awareness of the world.
How truly, truly sad!
What a SUPERB psychological study! NOT the article but the comments show that NO ONE READS ANYMORE!!
HA! 90% of the comments prove that the “click-bait” headline (to them) was all they needed to get so angry they HAD to defend their team!
Thank you for the unintended circumstance that NO ONE READS ANYMORE IN AMERICA! Click-bait headlines are most people’s awareness of the world.
How truly, truly sad!
5
Sorry--
I meant the Law of unintended CONSEQUENCES.
I meant the Law of unintended CONSEQUENCES.
1
Normally, I would agree with you, but on this particular subject, Patriot fans have heard it all. Read it all. Are sick of it all and as long as the media and other NFL fans continue to malign the team and their fans, then expect Patriot fans to add their perspective to the comment sections and correct the inaccuracies.
As a matter of fact, the reason there is such a discrepancy between the way the Patriots fans see it and the rest of the NFL is very much because the fans of other NFL teams read headlines only and didn't do the in depth reading and study of the subject the Patriot fans did.
As a matter of fact, the reason there is such a discrepancy between the way the Patriots fans see it and the rest of the NFL is very much because the fans of other NFL teams read headlines only and didn't do the in depth reading and study of the subject the Patriot fans did.
2
@liz
You didn’t read the article--didja?
You didn’t read the article--didja?
2
thank goodness that doesn't happen in politics. perfect example would be that mr trump's insulting vocal disagreements and tweets and lies are being considered over the top by democrats.
2
That our culture of winner take all mentality especially when it comes to your team, be it the Patriots or red team politics, produces cheaters and fans that don't care, Trump supporters that don't care Trump is a con man and a liar does not surprise me, but it certainly taints the sport and the team. Roger Goodell, count me as another person that now loathes football because of the Patriots and tunes it out. How sad this is what America has become, a nation that rewards and values the cheaters, even electing one to the highest office in the country.
5
Sure they can help it. If they live by personal ethics, they can discern the truth.
There may be a survival-based tendency to change views based on group membership, but the whole point of good ethics and religion is to over-ride that when necessary ... which creates a more ethical group; that's a survival value too.
During my career as a lawyer however I noticed how profoundly become a partner changes the moral views of male attorneys. The willingness to trust the partner in-group even in the face of grossly immoral or unethical behavior ... very impressive, and women partners were both less susceptible to the group-centered moral blindness AND much more likely to be thrown out of the group if they themselves did something that would earn an easy pass for the males.
Primarily -- it's the men. And it's optional and could be changed if people cared.
There may be a survival-based tendency to change views based on group membership, but the whole point of good ethics and religion is to over-ride that when necessary ... which creates a more ethical group; that's a survival value too.
During my career as a lawyer however I noticed how profoundly become a partner changes the moral views of male attorneys. The willingness to trust the partner in-group even in the face of grossly immoral or unethical behavior ... very impressive, and women partners were both less susceptible to the group-centered moral blindness AND much more likely to be thrown out of the group if they themselves did something that would earn an easy pass for the males.
Primarily -- it's the men. And it's optional and could be changed if people cared.
5
"moral views of male attorneys"? Aren't you, by profession, supposed to ignore morality?
Oh how I enjoy watching millionaires giving brain concussions to each other on a lazy Sunday afternoon. Nice, very nice.
8
Due to all the concerns about 'cheating', the Patriots are probably one of the most highly scrutinized teams in all of sports. There are multitudes of people closely watching and waiting to pounce on any irregularity or perceived illegal tactic.
Yet despite all this, the Patriots keep winning, and winning, and winning.
You don't suppose it could be because they're simply outstanding at what they do?
Yet despite all this, the Patriots keep winning, and winning, and winning.
You don't suppose it could be because they're simply outstanding at what they do?
4
Member when the steelers also had deflated balls back in december, and it was ignored by Goodell?
I member
I member
3
I am now a Falcons fan because of the Grifter’s love for the Patriots. Go Falcons Go.
6
Hey you forgot that Belichick paid a fan to throw the fire alarm on the Steelers and hired a murderer to play tight end! See - once you cheat, people see it everywhere. Too bad. The Patriots are even more amazing when they don't cheat.
3
Interesting as this may be as it pertains to football, while reading the article I could not help but equate the same herd morality described in the article to our current political and civil divisiveness.
I believe it explains in part why the outrageous acts and utterances by Trump, which would historically derail any other candidate for public office, have gone seemingly unnoticed by his supporters.
I believe it explains in part why the outrageous acts and utterances by Trump, which would historically derail any other candidate for public office, have gone seemingly unnoticed by his supporters.
6
As a long time NY Giants fan, ahem, I think this is much ado about nothing. So a little air was taken out of a few balls. Who cares and I certainly don't think it impacted the games in any capacity. But Tawmmy trying to deny he did so is a joke. New Englanders tend to circle the wagons in such situations. Go Falcons!
3
It is absolutely stunning that so many people could read this article then post comments that unwittingly support its thesis.
8
It is stunning that you assume they read anything other than the headline. We're talking about Pats fans, remember?
2
This is a very insightful article. It made me think of the automatic response of voters to ethical accusations against their chosen candidate or office-holder. I'm certain that most voters would, if given a "neutral choice", choose to condemn illegal or unethical behavior, but when their loyalties are involved or they feel attacked by a group they regard as the "enemy", the sort of sophistry you describe comes (virulently, these days) into play. In football, this tendency is more or less trivial. In politics, not. Thank you for so lucidly presenting this idea.
6
Cheatriot supporters are sycophants of Win Win Win No Matter If You Have To Cheat, just like Brady's golf buddy, Der Gropenfuherer. The deplorable team should have been disbanded, and Brady should be banned for life. As for any team from the South, not interested, too much baggage, thanks.
It's the Puppy Bowl for millions of sports fans.
It's the Puppy Bowl for millions of sports fans.
2
Not only did the NFL have no evidence that Tom Brady organized a scheme to deflate footballs, the league had no evidence that the balls were tampered with in any way shape or form.
I think this study applies more to non Patriot fans, who refuse to accept the evidence at face value.
I think this study applies more to non Patriot fans, who refuse to accept the evidence at face value.
12
glib rehash clickbait that's been debunked. From a New Yorker trying to stablish cred. Half the league is emulating Kraft & Belichick trying to repeat their success.
3
Please. Get past the headline and actually READ the article.
It’s a superb psychological study NOT a rehash of deflategate!
It’s a superb psychological study NOT a rehash of deflategate!
4
First of all, Nuschler, be fair. The field of Psychology has devolved into a chaotic mess. Second of all, while it might be all the rage to attempt to diagnose entire groups of people based on a psychological study or diagnosis, it's without merit. The person writing the article, was not a Pat's fan, and can't speak intelligently to the subject.
And what I also can't get past, is how many negative, insulting articles can one publication make against a team that is a rival team to their own state's two teams? And what would motivate the paper to publish an insulting article about one of the teams in the Super Bowl on the day of the Super Bowl? What's the intent there?
And what I also can't get past, is how many negative, insulting articles can one publication make against a team that is a rival team to their own state's two teams? And what would motivate the paper to publish an insulting article about one of the teams in the Super Bowl on the day of the Super Bowl? What's the intent there?
2
The Broncos were the recipient of the largest fines in NFL history when they circumvented the salary cap to put more talent on the field during their "this one's for John" SB years. Think of Denvers chances if Terrell Davis was on another team because they couldn't afford him. Much more egregious than whatever the Patriots were stained with.
3
I'm a Patriot's fan. I accept they videotaped opposing teams. They got caught and they got punished. IF there were indisputable proof the Patriot's deflated the footballs I'd accept that as well. I won't believe the league when it's burden of proof is "more likely than not" I suspect we all support our teams, warts and all, because they're teams. I also suspect many Pat's fans dispute the cheating stigma despite evidence. What is hard to comprehend is the hatred around the country for this team. Many teams have cheated, been caught and been punished. They are not hated. Leaves only one conclusion in my mind. They are hated because they win. End of story.
6
The new President of the US and his administration are a bunch of pathological liars and the NY Times worries about what an NFL team does and how their fans think about it. Of course they don't care. Winning is everything.
1
Let's assume all the cheating occurred. They were punished and paid the price. Isn't that enough? What do you recommend, banishing the team from existence and salting the Boston Common? Stop all the whining and envy and hate. It's a game folks!
3
1
Psychology also tells us that many times the accusers are hiding agendas that are far more devious and immoral. Anyone with a knowledge of the accusations knows that the were produced by individuals with personal and team agendas. They also greatly exaggerated and distorted the actual facts of the so called cheating ( which they were all doing)
They were also investigated by a league who has shown that the owners will use their personal positions to attempt to attack the Patriots, because they cant beat them on the field.
This is another one of those grandiose conclusions in search of a study.
Can you be suspended?
They were also investigated by a league who has shown that the owners will use their personal positions to attempt to attack the Patriots, because they cant beat them on the field.
This is another one of those grandiose conclusions in search of a study.
Can you be suspended?
6
What a disgraceful article to publish, and on the morning of the Super Bowl no less. It drags the Patriots' organization through the slime once again, and even darkly hints that the outcome of today's game could be affected by them twisting or breaking the rules. As if the body of work that the Patriots have produced over the past l6 years is not evidence enough of a supremely skilled and dedicated succession of teams unparalleled in NFL history.
The only egregious example of their misbehavior was Spygate, which happened 10 years ago. While the practice of NFL teams stealing secrets from one another, in many different ways, was a widespread practice at the time, it doesn't excuse what the Patriots did, and they paid a heavy price for this misake through an enormous fine, and the loss of a precious first-round draft pick.
The Deflategate episode was a joke, with even legal opinion sharply divided over the entire case. What did in Tom Brady and the Patriots, was a poorly conceived collective bargaining agreement, which ceded to the NFL Commissioner, the power of judge, jury and executioner. The legality of the commissioner to exercise those powers was upheld, NOT the guilt of Tom Brady. No court of law would have convicted him of ANYTHING had due process and rules of evidence been in place.
Stripped bare, the witch hunt of Patriot motives and actions, is nothing less than unvarnished envy. In truth, they have simply outplayed their opponents year after year.
The only egregious example of their misbehavior was Spygate, which happened 10 years ago. While the practice of NFL teams stealing secrets from one another, in many different ways, was a widespread practice at the time, it doesn't excuse what the Patriots did, and they paid a heavy price for this misake through an enormous fine, and the loss of a precious first-round draft pick.
The Deflategate episode was a joke, with even legal opinion sharply divided over the entire case. What did in Tom Brady and the Patriots, was a poorly conceived collective bargaining agreement, which ceded to the NFL Commissioner, the power of judge, jury and executioner. The legality of the commissioner to exercise those powers was upheld, NOT the guilt of Tom Brady. No court of law would have convicted him of ANYTHING had due process and rules of evidence been in place.
Stripped bare, the witch hunt of Patriot motives and actions, is nothing less than unvarnished envy. In truth, they have simply outplayed their opponents year after year.
8
I ignored the Pats' past because even though I'm from Massachusetts I don't care about them or football. In years past I would just say "Go Pats" and ask somebody to lmk when a decent halftime show was starting, which is all I'm interested in watching.
This year, well, they're all Trump tushie kissers so I hope they lose big. Especially so I can hear Trump call them losers or say the game was rigged. Oh wait, he'll say the game was rigged no matter who wins.
This year, well, they're all Trump tushie kissers so I hope they lose big. Especially so I can hear Trump call them losers or say the game was rigged. Oh wait, he'll say the game was rigged no matter who wins.
1
The Patriots are the perfect team for the age of Trump. Trump lies, cheats, and molests his way through life and is rewarded with what? Why, the White House of course! The Patriots are caught cheating twice in important playoff games and what is their reward? Why, Superbowl championships of course!
And a vast ocean of Americans living in the alternative fact universe we all now occupy don't seem to care as long as they are entertained, and as long as they can feel like winners. I tell you right now that the Pats represent some kind of zeitgeist for our country. They truly have captured through their sport the spirit of the age!
I hope they win.
And a vast ocean of Americans living in the alternative fact universe we all now occupy don't seem to care as long as they are entertained, and as long as they can feel like winners. I tell you right now that the Pats represent some kind of zeitgeist for our country. They truly have captured through their sport the spirit of the age!
I hope they win.
2
Nothing to do with you living in Atlanta, right?
1
@David H. Eisenberg
Actually, no. I'm originally from NYC, so my hometown team was bounced by the Pack. I really do want the Pats to win, and for the reasons I stated.
Actually, no. I'm originally from NYC, so my hometown team was bounced by the Pack. I really do want the Pats to win, and for the reasons I stated.
Why Do Fans Excuse the Patriots’ Cheating Past?
because they want and love winners?
because they want and love winners?
We don't care because there is no way we could cheat and play as well as Brady.
We also know that deflating the ball is not the reason the Patriots won. Does anyone really believe that a game was won 45-7 because some air was let out of the ball?
We also know that deflating the ball is not the reason the Patriots won. Does anyone really believe that a game was won 45-7 because some air was let out of the ball?
1
The coach of the New York Football Giants did more to impact the results of a game by illegally using walkie talkies during a game than anything the Patriots have ever been accused of.
1
Gregg from RI, Respectfully, your comment (as well as all the other pro-Pat comments printed here) only proves the very thesis of the article.
2
In what way?
Only if you want it to. Clearly you're looking at it in a less than objective manner.
It's all in the nature of sports. You're supposed to love your team unquestioningly, except when they don't win as much as you'd like, and hate anyone who tries to keep your team from the success you feel it deserves. It's a great you're-either-with-us-or-you're-against-us mentality for those who don't want to have to think, but it's not the way the real world works. Those of us who aren't hardcore sports fans know as much.
1
Deflategate has been thoroughly and completely debunked beyond any shadow of a doubt.
Numerous scientists from around the country and in Europe have looked at the numbers in the Wells report and stated unanimously and unambiguously that there is no scientific evidence of tampering and that weather can account for all pressure measurements. Others have published critiques of the report that identify an incredible amount of deceit and fraud in the report. The Wells report is indefensible. The nfl leaked false information to the press at the very start to set public opinion against the Patriots. Goodell and others got caught blatantly and completely (hands down, pants on fire, hand in the cookie jar) lying when the Brady appeal transcripts were unexpectedly made public by judge Berman. Goodell obviously thought those transcripts would never see the light of day. The nfl admitted in court that they had no evidence against Brady. Even if you accept all the bogus and some false (according to the Wells report itself) assumptions made in the Wells report the most amount of pressure that could have been unaccounted for according to the "calculations" in the report is barely above the accuracy of the gauges which is precisely why the report never stated how much PSI they thought was unaccounted for. The amount is so minuscule it is laughable and again, that is only if you accept their absurd assumptions.
But dont let science get in the way of your need believe they cheated.
Numerous scientists from around the country and in Europe have looked at the numbers in the Wells report and stated unanimously and unambiguously that there is no scientific evidence of tampering and that weather can account for all pressure measurements. Others have published critiques of the report that identify an incredible amount of deceit and fraud in the report. The Wells report is indefensible. The nfl leaked false information to the press at the very start to set public opinion against the Patriots. Goodell and others got caught blatantly and completely (hands down, pants on fire, hand in the cookie jar) lying when the Brady appeal transcripts were unexpectedly made public by judge Berman. Goodell obviously thought those transcripts would never see the light of day. The nfl admitted in court that they had no evidence against Brady. Even if you accept all the bogus and some false (according to the Wells report itself) assumptions made in the Wells report the most amount of pressure that could have been unaccounted for according to the "calculations" in the report is barely above the accuracy of the gauges which is precisely why the report never stated how much PSI they thought was unaccounted for. The amount is so minuscule it is laughable and again, that is only if you accept their absurd assumptions.
But dont let science get in the way of your need believe they cheated.
7
Gotta Love the New York Times pretending to know anything about sports! Psh Belichick, he's no genius, just a cheater! Gotcha New England. Thats how he manages to build the deepest teams year in and year out, simply by cheating! Ha!
"Could they be skirting the rules even today, in new or undetected ways? Many football fans — nearly all of them outside New England — would not be surprised." Maybe by warming footballs on the sideline? Or hiding a nagging injury to their star cornerback? Or worse, piping in crowd noise to mess with the opposing offense?! Oh wait...that was the Vikings, Seahawks, and Atlanta. Wait...Atlanta? Aren't they playing tonight as well...?
"Could they be skirting the rules even today, in new or undetected ways? Many football fans — nearly all of them outside New England — would not be surprised." Maybe by warming footballs on the sideline? Or hiding a nagging injury to their star cornerback? Or worse, piping in crowd noise to mess with the opposing offense?! Oh wait...that was the Vikings, Seahawks, and Atlanta. Wait...Atlanta? Aren't they playing tonight as well...?
7
I have a problem with your using "ethics" and professional "sports" in the same piece without noting that they are, quite often, mutually exclusive. This is driven by big money and there ain't much ethics associated with that! Whether it is professional baseball, college basketball, college football or the NFL, there is too much money involved for us to expect much purity of motive or intent. This takes the fun out of a lot of sports, right down to the elementary school level; where parents frequently see their children as future all-star millionaires.
2
The Patriots cheated? Really? Then how comne the NFL awarded them 4 Super Bowl trophies and the Pats still have them. Guess the League did not think the cheating was very serious. More like an under 20+ speeding ticket rather than guilty of homicide. Belichick is definitely one of the best head coaches ever, and that even gives him a pass for being a Trump fan by the way (but barely!). Same for Brady. Little scandals to give the the lesser teams a reason to feel good about themselves, it's not like the Patriots are getting 5 downs per series.
1
mostly because the football issue is an NFL falsehood. They did not cheat and multiple physics departments have shown it is a dubious acquisition at best
1
It's only football. I'm more concerned about the flaunting of rules in the government and financial sector.
2
Fans like the Patriots for the same reason they like Trump. Because like the Donald, the Patriots cheat and get away with it. This also explains why the Patriots' owner and Tom Brady, are such good friends with Donald Trump. They have a lot in common.
7
I was going to say the same thing . . the psychology of the aggrieved New England Patriot fan is exactly the same as that of the aggrieved White voter. Call it sore winning, I guess.
That said, as a native New Englander, I'm still a huge Pats fan . . . my reaction to Trump, though, is more like my reaction to the Jets.
That said, as a native New Englander, I'm still a huge Pats fan . . . my reaction to Trump, though, is more like my reaction to the Jets.
God forgive me: football is just a game. Like any other game: It doesn't deserve the amount of attention it gets. The players are not heroes. It doesn't much matter who wins or loses. Its an afternoon distraction at best.
4
Seemingly great things can rest on flimsy foundations. The entire Iraq War rested on lies, forgeries, whackjobs like "Curveball." This entire starting premise that the Patriots are "cheater" because of the video nonsense of ten years ago and the Colts-created "Deflategate" fiasco, is one such flimsy foundation. And then the author seriously believes that the Patriots are cheating because their roster is suspiciously stocked with "retreads"? And somehow Tom Brady isn't in fact the GOAT? If Chris Hogan is a retread, get us some more of those. This article is about as lame as I figured it would be when I saw the headline.
5
Thanks to all the posters who proved the author's points.
6
If the author's points had any validity to begin with, they wouldn't need to be proven by random commenters, now would they, jp? Truth is not a popularity contest.
As a sports purist, I have no compassion for cheaters. I have not and will not forgive Patriots for their nefarious behaviors under Belichick. Being a devout member of Steeler Nation, I do not support AFC champions in the Super Bowl that aren't the Steelers. Fortunately, the "cowboys" aren't in it this year and I can watch in hopes that the Patriots get beat; hopefully, due to a pick-six thrown by Deflate-Brady. Go Falcons!
2
Maybe nobody cares about a bunch of millionaires playing a game?
I don't know it's all about the money and power just like the GOP.
The super bowl is however a good excuse to eat a pile of chicken wings and drink a few beers so in the end it does have some redeeming social value.
I don't know it's all about the money and power just like the GOP.
The super bowl is however a good excuse to eat a pile of chicken wings and drink a few beers so in the end it does have some redeeming social value.
Patriots: pioneers in the post factual age? Winning is everything in America. It doesn't matter how you get there. Just ask our present... never mind.
2
Because it doesn't matter to them HOW they win. Obviously.
2
Gee Wiz, when will the NYT finally tire of using fake science to say that they hate the Patriots? I recall reading an article in this esteemed publication complete with statistics and graphs showing how the Patriots fumbled the ball far less than any other NFL team, which in the NYT's view supported the notion that the Patriots used under-inflated footballs. Meanwhile the Patriots continue to protect the football better than other teams and fumble less. Still waiting for a retraction on that silly piece of 'investigative reporting'. Go Pats!!!
4
Incidents from last year, or the years before, have nothing to do with this season—the Patriots have earned their way into this year's Super Bowl.
2
This would be funny if it weren't so pitiful. Apparently Juliet Macur and those at the NYT who determine what is worth front page coverage, don't read their own newspaper. Her underlying assumption that the Patriots cheat is totally belied in the January 22nd NYT article by Joe Nocera "True Scandal of Deflategate Lies in the NFL's Behavior". Macur's sloppiness - as well as the daily front page banner announcing Hillary's 85% chance of winning the election - really undermine my confidence in the worthiness of continuing my NYT subscription.
6
Thank you for this column!
I’m a woman, remembering “my” University of Utah Utes and how I planned my life around the hoops games. Getting tickets at the height of this team with Danny Vranes, Tom Chambers, Jeff Judkins was so difficult that this is how they gave out tickets to students. They would announce where they were giving out numbered tickets (1-5,000) and those tickets allowed you to buy tickets. We would try to guess where this would happen. You could see groups of students crowded together in spots on the beautiful upper campus of green sloping lawns, giant granite boulders, set against the snow capped Wasatch Mountains. They announced the location over the PA and you would see masses of students racing to the location--knocking over smaller students, cursing, elbowing, fighting their way to get a ticket. I had friends who had incapacitating Migraine headaches with vomiting they got so emotional about getting tickets--and the games themselves? Well you’ve watched the Duke student section on TV. Other schools are JUST as obnoxious and scream horrific things too,we just weren’t on TV.
I had the same feelings for MY Utah Jazz.I planned my life around their schedule. Baltimore Orioles,same thing when I worked in Bawl’mer. I applied to work at the University of MD trauma center ONLY if they could accommodate the O’s schedule,even had a crush on Cal Ripken Jr (to my new husband’s dismay!)
Looking back I now realize how these teams filled huge holes in my heart!
I’m a woman, remembering “my” University of Utah Utes and how I planned my life around the hoops games. Getting tickets at the height of this team with Danny Vranes, Tom Chambers, Jeff Judkins was so difficult that this is how they gave out tickets to students. They would announce where they were giving out numbered tickets (1-5,000) and those tickets allowed you to buy tickets. We would try to guess where this would happen. You could see groups of students crowded together in spots on the beautiful upper campus of green sloping lawns, giant granite boulders, set against the snow capped Wasatch Mountains. They announced the location over the PA and you would see masses of students racing to the location--knocking over smaller students, cursing, elbowing, fighting their way to get a ticket. I had friends who had incapacitating Migraine headaches with vomiting they got so emotional about getting tickets--and the games themselves? Well you’ve watched the Duke student section on TV. Other schools are JUST as obnoxious and scream horrific things too,we just weren’t on TV.
I had the same feelings for MY Utah Jazz.I planned my life around their schedule. Baltimore Orioles,same thing when I worked in Bawl’mer. I applied to work at the University of MD trauma center ONLY if they could accommodate the O’s schedule,even had a crush on Cal Ripken Jr (to my new husband’s dismay!)
Looking back I now realize how these teams filled huge holes in my heart!
2
You seem to assume that the Patriots were cheating. Maybe the fans think the Patriots have been singled out . Pittsburgh had deflated balls this year and they weren't punished for it. Why the double standard?
4
Number one - this article is in a NY paper, where Goodell and the NFL front office abide. And the NY fans all hate New England fans and teams.
Number two - since Juliet Macur is not a Patriots fan, she has no validity to speak of what fans response is or why. And thinking she can diagnose millions of fans using "psychology", is just sad.
Number three - I am a Patriots fan. And I can tell you that I don't excuse cheating. I see Sypgate in context, that other NFL fans refuse to consider. I've read Coach of the Steeler's Bill Cowher who went on record to say, everyone was videotaping. The NYJets videotaped from the same location the year before the Pats did, and it was not a crime.
Number four - Deflategate was and always will be a witch hunt by a corrupt NFL and I stand by John Dowd's evaluation of it, who was special prosecutor for Pete Rose and Steinbrenner. There was no cheating. None. There was no lying. There was no destroying of evidence. That is my belief after spending 9 months of my life researching it daily and reading all the applicable documents to the case. No one deflated any footballs.
So I am very happy to be a Patriot's fan. But you keep trying New York to tear down the Patriots and their fans, if it makes you feel better.
Number two - since Juliet Macur is not a Patriots fan, she has no validity to speak of what fans response is or why. And thinking she can diagnose millions of fans using "psychology", is just sad.
Number three - I am a Patriots fan. And I can tell you that I don't excuse cheating. I see Sypgate in context, that other NFL fans refuse to consider. I've read Coach of the Steeler's Bill Cowher who went on record to say, everyone was videotaping. The NYJets videotaped from the same location the year before the Pats did, and it was not a crime.
Number four - Deflategate was and always will be a witch hunt by a corrupt NFL and I stand by John Dowd's evaluation of it, who was special prosecutor for Pete Rose and Steinbrenner. There was no cheating. None. There was no lying. There was no destroying of evidence. That is my belief after spending 9 months of my life researching it daily and reading all the applicable documents to the case. No one deflated any footballs.
So I am very happy to be a Patriot's fan. But you keep trying New York to tear down the Patriots and their fans, if it makes you feel better.
7
Among the many false (or unproven) premises in this article, here's another one. That is that most fans outside of New England think the Patriots cheated in Deflategate. From my reading of football articles and blog posts around the country, my impression is that most knowledgeable fans think that Deflategate was a completely trumped up affair. You'd be surprised at the number of fans who hate Tom Brady, hate the Patriots, yet at the same time believe Deflategate was bogus.
5
Get your facts straight and try again. Defamation is not a fun game to play to razz your opponents, it's illegal and immoral. It pains me to open NYT and actually see actual fake news like this as I have been defending the NYT recently. I'll have to agree when people call out this publication as "FAKE NEWS"
7
Killing the messenger?
This article makes the assumption that they do cheat. An example of the genesis of "alternative facts" and the nonsense they precipitate. This so called 'study' is absurd!
7
About deflategate: I know very little about football. Can someone explain to me why each team brings its own footballs to the game? Why don't both teams play with the same ball (as they do in baseball)? As I recall, the football air pressures were measured, but not under the same conditions. It seems to me that the present situation encourages cheating. Or is that intentional, part of the game?
3
I am from Massachusetts so there may be some bias here. The reason was because the NFL allowed for teams to prepare the footballs to the preference of the quarterback within a certain range. They wanted the quarterbacks to feel comfortable with the footballs so they could be more successful. The issue was they had to pass a quick inspection by the referees before they could be used in the game. What the Patriots are accused of doing was tampering with the balls AFTER the referees had approved them. Apparently they were dropping the PSI below the acceptable level. The outrage from Boston came with the leagues inability to prove it and the massive suspension of Tom Brady. Four games in the NFL is a ridiculous amount, especially when it doubles domestic abuse suspensions of Ray Rice and others. But thats beside the point. Hope that clears it up.
Newsflash!! The Colts balls that were tested came in under the 12.5. Btw, Pats played in 18 deg weather this season. A ball measured on the field would have measured 9.6 psi on no one would have taken air out of it. PSI would have returned when the balls warmed back up. Carry on.
1
Football has always been and will always be a metaphor for war. Intel is accepted in warfare... it is in fact required.
Was it cheating when Bletchley Park broke the German codes? Hardly. Counterintelligence is the responsibility of each sides over all Intel.
In poker, is it “cheating” to recognize and make use of the other players’ tells? Hardly. Do professional poker players just happen to detect tells? Or do they actively seek them out? I would bet the latter.
Any tactic that is not explicitly forbidden is fair game: especially in Football. Football is War.
Go Pats!
Was it cheating when Bletchley Park broke the German codes? Hardly. Counterintelligence is the responsibility of each sides over all Intel.
In poker, is it “cheating” to recognize and make use of the other players’ tells? Hardly. Do professional poker players just happen to detect tells? Or do they actively seek them out? I would bet the latter.
Any tactic that is not explicitly forbidden is fair game: especially in Football. Football is War.
Go Pats!
Alternative morals?
Former Patriots fan here. No longer. I believe that they have cheated and I am unwilling to support that. It is pretty simple.
3
So, what team have you found to root for that doesn't cheat?
In the study, why is it unfair to pick the easier task? It may not be the nicest thing to do, but that's not the same as being unfair. When given a choice between the two, either choice is "fair game".
1
Hi Bob,
Thanks for the question. When cheating was so high, we wondered if people actually believed choosing not to flip the coin was immoral. So we surveyed over 100 people, asking them if in this situation, choosing not to flip was immoral. The answer was clear and completely unanimous. !00% indicated doing so was a type of cheating.
Thanks for the question. When cheating was so high, we wondered if people actually believed choosing not to flip the coin was immoral. So we surveyed over 100 people, asking them if in this situation, choosing not to flip was immoral. The answer was clear and completely unanimous. !00% indicated doing so was a type of cheating.
It must be comforting, in some way, for Patriots haters to believe their success is attributable to a videotape TEN YEARS AGO and a couple of squishy pigskins. Of course people have loyalties. The real reason people hate the Patriots is because they win, not because they violated a few rules over the years! How do you know this? Ask any fan of an average or below average team if they would accept Belichick-Brady to take over their team. It's not about forgiving ethical transgressions, of which there are relatively few. It's about winning.
7
I subscribe to the Boston Globe--both print and digital.
The comment sections are filled with loyal, nay OBSESSIVE fans (well the word “fans” does come from “fanatics.”) angry at any perceived slight to their team. Brady IS a golden god, Belichick IS the Patton of x’s and o’s. Kraft IS everyone’s loving father--to them.
I’m a fool. I tried to answer with logic, reason. “Why is it so important that you get this angry over anything negative written or said about your team? It’s not as if Belichick, Brady, or owner Kraft give a dang about YOU the fan. As long as you keep buying your outlandishly expensive season tickets they couldn’t care less about you as a person! Do you think that you are buddies with Tom and he will invite you to his multi-million dollar mansion to have a cookout with his perfectly stunning super-model wife? He won’t.”
Then I went on to say “I can understand your outrage if someone sullied your mother or sister...but a pro football team?” I got the most “dislikes” of any comment ever!
Boy am I dumb! I took the human being and his psyche completely out of the
equation! The author is right--there is no logic EVER in love. An emotion that makes us ill (lovesick, heartsick, crazy in love) and can be COMPLETELY irrational.
Let’s hope we never become bots that lose this emotion!
With that...GO FALCONS!
The comment sections are filled with loyal, nay OBSESSIVE fans (well the word “fans” does come from “fanatics.”) angry at any perceived slight to their team. Brady IS a golden god, Belichick IS the Patton of x’s and o’s. Kraft IS everyone’s loving father--to them.
I’m a fool. I tried to answer with logic, reason. “Why is it so important that you get this angry over anything negative written or said about your team? It’s not as if Belichick, Brady, or owner Kraft give a dang about YOU the fan. As long as you keep buying your outlandishly expensive season tickets they couldn’t care less about you as a person! Do you think that you are buddies with Tom and he will invite you to his multi-million dollar mansion to have a cookout with his perfectly stunning super-model wife? He won’t.”
Then I went on to say “I can understand your outrage if someone sullied your mother or sister...but a pro football team?” I got the most “dislikes” of any comment ever!
Boy am I dumb! I took the human being and his psyche completely out of the
equation! The author is right--there is no logic EVER in love. An emotion that makes us ill (lovesick, heartsick, crazy in love) and can be COMPLETELY irrational.
Let’s hope we never become bots that lose this emotion!
With that...GO FALCONS!
3
I think most people don't hate the Patriots, but instead and just like the Yankees, hate their fans.
3
The super bowl is the most visible symbol of the decline of American civilization. The Chinese don't waste billions on monumental stadiums. Instead they build apartment towers, officers, and factories. Their primary and secondary schools focus on academics above all else, with a healthy dose of non-contact physical exercise for healthy bodies and minds. Our primary and secondary schools elevate the athletes, particularly the football team, above academics and prioritize football practice facilities over exercise for the whole student body.
Our country has misplaced priorities and there is no better place to see those misplaced priorities on display than at the super bowl.
Our country has misplaced priorities and there is no better place to see those misplaced priorities on display than at the super bowl.
3
Oh come on!! Decline of civilization??
I think we saw that in the 2016 presidential campaign.
Sports is fun! It gives us all a chance to be with like-minded folks who understand the nuances of a game--to remember back to some of the best times in our lives! When Henry Aaron bashed his 715th tater, every Atlanta fan, wherever they were in the world was jubilant--felt part of something wonderful!
I am sorry that you only see the excesses of pro sports. Go watch a girl’s soccer game. Watch as these young women who had been “condemned” to only waving pom-poms and wearing short skirts as cheerleaders on the sidelines are NOW the ones participating..growing stronger, developing better self esteem--these are the women who will do something about the glass ceilings of CEOs and POTUS.
Go watch OR EVEN PLAY in pickup games at the Y or on public courts. It’s a FACT that you can see better hoops players on an outer borough NY court than any NBA arena. Go find where people are having fun playing games..the camaraderie, the smiles, laughs, and just feeling joy after stressful jobs and lives become too much.
LIGHTEN UP BUD!
I think we saw that in the 2016 presidential campaign.
Sports is fun! It gives us all a chance to be with like-minded folks who understand the nuances of a game--to remember back to some of the best times in our lives! When Henry Aaron bashed his 715th tater, every Atlanta fan, wherever they were in the world was jubilant--felt part of something wonderful!
I am sorry that you only see the excesses of pro sports. Go watch a girl’s soccer game. Watch as these young women who had been “condemned” to only waving pom-poms and wearing short skirts as cheerleaders on the sidelines are NOW the ones participating..growing stronger, developing better self esteem--these are the women who will do something about the glass ceilings of CEOs and POTUS.
Go watch OR EVEN PLAY in pickup games at the Y or on public courts. It’s a FACT that you can see better hoops players on an outer borough NY court than any NBA arena. Go find where people are having fun playing games..the camaraderie, the smiles, laughs, and just feeling joy after stressful jobs and lives become too much.
LIGHTEN UP BUD!
1
It is the culture of sports not merely the Patriots that has a problem with ethics. Maybe even of sports "journalists" who thrive on creating heroes and villians from flawed cloth.
1
I think fans excuse the Pats cheating past for the same reason they agree to pay taxes to fund NFL stadiums, while knowing that players, coaches and owners are multi-millionaires and do not need taxpayer support; and for the same reason people spend exorbitant amounts of money for tickets and other goods to support these wealthy folks. (Glad the Packers are community owned.) Remember, "fan" is short for "fanatic."
2
I would have hoped the NYT would have had someone a bit more knowledgeable write this article. At WORST, the Patriots alleged cheating were minor violations that had nothing to do with the outcome of the games. Spygate? Filming the opposing teams signals (which is legal, done by many teams all the time) from a position that was not allowed after they had been warned. Deflategate? Nothing there really, at worst a minor equipment violation. In both cases, any real infractions were greatly amplified by outright lies (many people still believe Pats filmed the Rams practice, they didn't, the balls were not seriously underinflated although ESPN and the NFL lied that they were and refused to retract the falsehood).
Sorry to belabor these points. But Pats fans can see past them because the alleged infractions were at worst trivial but were amplified by outright lies to negate the team's accomplishments.
The history of the NFL is replete with unethical behavior. How about Bill Parcells negotiating with the Jets when he was the Pats coach the week before the Super Bowl? He couldn't wait a week? What a betrayal of trust! Maybe nobody cared because he never won after that.
Sorry to belabor these points. But Pats fans can see past them because the alleged infractions were at worst trivial but were amplified by outright lies to negate the team's accomplishments.
The history of the NFL is replete with unethical behavior. How about Bill Parcells negotiating with the Jets when he was the Pats coach the week before the Super Bowl? He couldn't wait a week? What a betrayal of trust! Maybe nobody cared because he never won after that.
6
This article is about any facet of life. On the opinion pages, it explains why Dems and Reps are pretty sure only the other side lies, distorts, and obstructs, when in fact both have and do and are happy to escalate. In fact, the comments here show that partisans do not see how this applies to them. They are pretty sure the political opposition is the problem, unable to see that two parties have been down in the mud together for a long, long, time.
2
Did you actually do any research for this article? Bellichick broke the rules by filming from field level, for the first seven minutes of the first quarter of the first game of the season, when the previous season filming from field level was legal. The opposing coach, Mangini, who just left as Bellichick's assistant under strained circumstances, saw the filming and blew the whistle. Done. Penalized. Brady's "deflate gate" accusation was and is ridiculous."Even after an NFL investigation had caught them using deflated footballs", is a false statement. Seventh grade science fair students across the country replicated the deflation of the footballs. The NFL is covering up it's "data collection" of PSI levels in cold weather games from the past two seasons. Ms. Karkera's father wasn't being blind to the facts. You are missing the point that the "facts" were manipulated by the NFL, and that no clear "facts" were ever verified. There was a Keystone Kops "investigation" that was laughable, and turned up tangential maybes.
The NFL is as political as any nation, and with much more money at stake than most countries. A monopoly on winning directly affects fan attendance, merchandising, branding, radio and tv rights, you know, the business of accumulating wealth by owning a sports franchise. Why watch a Bills, Jets, Dolphins game when you know your team isn't going anywhere. If you can't beat em on the field, let's keep throwing mud and delegitimize what they've accomplished.
The NFL is as political as any nation, and with much more money at stake than most countries. A monopoly on winning directly affects fan attendance, merchandising, branding, radio and tv rights, you know, the business of accumulating wealth by owning a sports franchise. Why watch a Bills, Jets, Dolphins game when you know your team isn't going anywhere. If you can't beat em on the field, let's keep throwing mud and delegitimize what they've accomplished.
13
"Brady's "deflate gate" accusation was and is ridiculous."
Highly debatable.
Highly debatable.
1
Not by people who actually followed the case and read all the accompanying documents. Not by the most expert and respected scientists in the country.
1
One would expect this reaction from the newspaper that's home to the NJ Jets and the NJ Giants. Do you talk this way about the NY Yankees? As a former Brooklyn resident, all I can say is gimme a break. All this much ado about air pressure is just sour grapes people trying to find an excuse for their teams losing. Later today we'll see. And if the Pats lose, you can tell us I told you so. If they win, whaddya gonna say?
8
Win, lose or draw, I follow the Patriots, know their players to the extent any fan usually does, admire the discipline, work, training that this team is committed to and am very happy they landed in the Super Bowl…again. Last year, they lost the AFC game to the Broncos, after our team was decimated with injuries all season, one after the other. Behind an ineffective O Line, Tom Brady was hit 25 times, and still…we almost tied that game up in the last minutes of the game. I was prouder of that team in that game last year, then some of the wins that have come easily to them. Go Pats!
It can all be summed up with the following statements:
It's a crime if YOU do it; it's not a crime if I do it.
Get results and everything else will be forgiven.
And that sums up American morality these days. The Patriots are by no means the only offenders in this regard; they may not be in some respects the worst offenders. They just happen to be in the spotlight right now. But what worries me is the message that's being sent: breaking rules doesn't *always* have consequences (cf. the steroid users in baseball being considered for the Hall of Fame; see also Pete Rose).
BTW: go Falcons.
It's a crime if YOU do it; it's not a crime if I do it.
Get results and everything else will be forgiven.
And that sums up American morality these days. The Patriots are by no means the only offenders in this regard; they may not be in some respects the worst offenders. They just happen to be in the spotlight right now. But what worries me is the message that's being sent: breaking rules doesn't *always* have consequences (cf. the steroid users in baseball being considered for the Hall of Fame; see also Pete Rose).
BTW: go Falcons.
1
I don't think St. Brady could be dissed in Boston. It's against the law. He and Gisele are the modern day version of Jack & Jacqueline Kennedy. They are almost holy beings and revered as such. You can not say anything bad about the Patriots (or the Red Sox) in Boston. You will be tarred and feathered and dunked into the Charles River. Do not wear New York sports team apparel when visiting.
1
As sports go, so goes life.
The Romans knew this well, and engineered their mass entertainments to harness this human tendency specifically to reinforce public support for govermnent actions with another emotional component.
"History may not repeat itself, but it sure do rhyme"
--Twain
The Romans knew this well, and engineered their mass entertainments to harness this human tendency specifically to reinforce public support for govermnent actions with another emotional component.
"History may not repeat itself, but it sure do rhyme"
--Twain
Spygate was something that *every* team was doing which was filming. Belichick's violation was filming from an "unauthorized" location. Belichick nearly lost his job for that. Mr. Craft asked him exactly how much of an edge it gave him. His answer was "less than one percent." Kraft told him to never do it again. It wasn't even a written rule. The NFL had sent down in a *letter* as something "not to do". It was never written into any rule book until after the violation.
Deflategate was never proven. In fact, because of the ideal gas law, it was disproven. A few games ago the NFL commented on a game earlier THIS season that had ball issues because of cold weather and they were just reinflated on the side line and he said that the variations were ok. The NFL doesn't *care* about ball handling. The investigation DID show that the NFL has a complete disregard for its own rules on ball handling AND yet nothing has changed since "Deflategate" happened. The wording of "Brady was more likely than not to have known (about unproven air manipulation)", and I can't help but wonder who actually believes this bull. Cripes, there was a team HEATING up their balls in front of a heater during a game and they were given a couple thousand dollar fine! That's it! The NFL regularly gives wife beaters 1 or 2 game suspensions, but can't prove it's case against Brady and suspends him for 4 games. How is that fair?
Also, www.yourteamcheats.com. The Pats are FAR from the most prolific cheaters.
Deflategate was never proven. In fact, because of the ideal gas law, it was disproven. A few games ago the NFL commented on a game earlier THIS season that had ball issues because of cold weather and they were just reinflated on the side line and he said that the variations were ok. The NFL doesn't *care* about ball handling. The investigation DID show that the NFL has a complete disregard for its own rules on ball handling AND yet nothing has changed since "Deflategate" happened. The wording of "Brady was more likely than not to have known (about unproven air manipulation)", and I can't help but wonder who actually believes this bull. Cripes, there was a team HEATING up their balls in front of a heater during a game and they were given a couple thousand dollar fine! That's it! The NFL regularly gives wife beaters 1 or 2 game suspensions, but can't prove it's case against Brady and suspends him for 4 games. How is that fair?
Also, www.yourteamcheats.com. The Pats are FAR from the most prolific cheaters.
5
This article is the best explanation for Trump and his supporters and the Republicans in Congess that I have heard. It is a fascinating explanation of us vs them. Probably applicable to all people who feel part of a team or a group. So why do all these organizations do team-building exercises? May be more downside than upside.
6
Funny how they keep winning even though...Wait, this is the NYTs...FAKE NEWS!
3
Yet Dan is here screaming the usual infantile nonsense.
Weird!
Weird!
Hey, Relax,
The Dallas and Vikings fan base should be upset! Just let's enjoy the game and hope that the Falcons win! Yeah I'm still smarting from the Seahawks loss!
Go Hawks!!
The Dallas and Vikings fan base should be upset! Just let's enjoy the game and hope that the Falcons win! Yeah I'm still smarting from the Seahawks loss!
Go Hawks!!
1
Contrary to the author's assertion that any group (not just football or sports) behaves like this, I think it is mostly just sports groups.
Sports is a metaphor for "war," amongst a large segment of our frustrated male population, who would probably like to actually be doing "war" -- but that's not acceptable in modern society. So they do sports.
And in war "anything goes" -- lying, cheating, stealing, killing -- whatever it takes to win. So, there you have it. Anything NE does is OK by their fans...b/c it's "war." Anything goes.
Sports is a metaphor for "war," amongst a large segment of our frustrated male population, who would probably like to actually be doing "war" -- but that's not acceptable in modern society. So they do sports.
And in war "anything goes" -- lying, cheating, stealing, killing -- whatever it takes to win. So, there you have it. Anything NE does is OK by their fans...b/c it's "war." Anything goes.
1
#alternativewinning
2
This is so typical of NYT - bashing Patriots on Super Bowl day. The premise of this article is also questionable: the so-called "cheating" is cut and dried. It is not. How about piece on how the Pats have been so consistently successful (hint: it's not through "cheating"). Another hit piece disguised as some psychological study. The best revenge is for Pats to win today.
11
Brady and his coach and teammates who handle the ball must think the fans are idiots. NBA players hand the ball to the ref if it feels soft. Baseball players ask the ump to check a baseball, sometimes because of a soft spot. PGA touring pros can squeeze a golf ball and tell if it it "dead" or soft. So the best playoff quarterback in history can't tell if a football is soft?
I recall Terry Bradshaw wanting them harder, so it hurt the defender's hand if he tried tom intercept.
I recall Terry Bradshaw wanting them harder, so it hurt the defender's hand if he tried tom intercept.
Really NYT? Putting this bit of incendiary fluff out there on SB day is somewhat analogous to the FBI's putting HRC on notice for possible additional email transgressions mere days before the general election. Though the implications in this case have little to no import and will have zero impact on the actual outcome, was this really necessary, today?
As to the particulars, yeah, basically everyone cheats in the NFL to whatever extent they can to gain an advantage, hopefully without being caught. The Patriots suffer a disadvantage in that they are constantly under the microscope due to their success, and/ or they're lousy cheaters. That a team that good has to resort to a Spygate I'll admit, is a little cheesy. As to under inflated footballs, scientific theories aside, it's a tempest in a teapot. Anyone who happened to catch the 2nd half of that Colts game will take note of how thoroughly they were dismantled when the Patriots scored 28 unanswered points, ball pressure notwithstanding.
As to the particulars, yeah, basically everyone cheats in the NFL to whatever extent they can to gain an advantage, hopefully without being caught. The Patriots suffer a disadvantage in that they are constantly under the microscope due to their success, and/ or they're lousy cheaters. That a team that good has to resort to a Spygate I'll admit, is a little cheesy. As to under inflated footballs, scientific theories aside, it's a tempest in a teapot. Anyone who happened to catch the 2nd half of that Colts game will take note of how thoroughly they were dismantled when the Patriots scored 28 unanswered points, ball pressure notwithstanding.
4
I completely agree; Macur's article starts with a confusing and addled account of an experiment which to my mind has nothing to do with the real intent of the article, which is to create a pre-emptive strike on the validity of a Patriots' victory today. If they win, the suggestion is darkly made that it will be because of skulduggery which no doubt will be revealed tomorrow, or something. Perhaps Mr. Comey was her consultant.
1
To be clear, although I live in New England, I couldn't care less about football.
Still, I do hope that the Patriots win. The "moral compass" of the NFL and Goodell is what is missing. Wife-beaters and child-abusers are barely admonished, but Brady has a 4 game suspension for cheating that may or may not have happened?
Still, I do hope that the Patriots win. The "moral compass" of the NFL and Goodell is what is missing. Wife-beaters and child-abusers are barely admonished, but Brady has a 4 game suspension for cheating that may or may not have happened?
6
Thank you Laura, for someone who is not even into football, you have summed it up with a clear eye.
1
It's only called 'cheating' when the other side didn't think about it first. Otherwise, it's just called 'strategy.'
3
The best thing about the super bowl is it means the season is over.
7
Yes! Yes! Yes! Can we please end this ridiculous sport that causes head injuries for the season? I wish we could end it forever. Sadly, we must have the circus part of "bread and circus" to appease the masses. So very sad.
Insightful, interesting and depressing story. It would appear to explain how flimsy the illusion of morality can be, and how easy it is for rationalization to erase "facts". Apparently belief is the strongest force in our "society".
This succinctly sums up our current political morass.
This succinctly sums up our current political morass.
2
The Pats have never cheated. Deflategate has been demonstrated not to have happened, spygate never happened, and the video infraction while against the spirit of the rules was within the memo. It was magnanimous of Kraft to submit to penalties in both cases where he did so, and he got nothing for it that is detectable.
Looking forward to seeing the Falcons later today in a game at a site where they cannot pump in fake crowd noise to drown out the opposing team's signals.
Looking forward to seeing the Falcons later today in a game at a site where they cannot pump in fake crowd noise to drown out the opposing team's signals.
2
It's reflection of American politics and business ethics.
Period.
Period.
3
Because the fans cheat too.
The Patriots were caught twice. First, the video, which would appear to be blatant, particularly because the Patriots had asked a specific question previously on this issue, and were told it couldn't be done (Belichick's excuse that he didn't understand seems a little childish). The football issue seems to be disputed, and ridiculous since they team did much better in the second half with the other team's balls than with their balls in the first half (and there seemed to be at least one subsequent instance with Pittsburgh when their balls seemed to half less than the required amount at games end).
Football is about pushing the limits. Cheating should not be permitted. But is the statute of liberty cheating? Formations that are unique but not outside the rules cheating? Is the draw play cheating (they are set up to pass, but run instead). Faking a handoff?? A screen play??
The Patriots have a record over the past 15 years that is enviable. Pervasive cheating is not the reason - hard work and imagination and studying all aspects is the reason.
Football is about pushing the limits. Cheating should not be permitted. But is the statute of liberty cheating? Formations that are unique but not outside the rules cheating? Is the draw play cheating (they are set up to pass, but run instead). Faking a handoff?? A screen play??
The Patriots have a record over the past 15 years that is enviable. Pervasive cheating is not the reason - hard work and imagination and studying all aspects is the reason.
2
True new england patriots fans will boycott tonight's game so the resulting paltry ratings, and revenues, will surly get Roger Goodell fired by the money the filthy grubbing owners like kraft himself.
Goodell would be gone by Monday morning if the ratings showed a precipitous drop.
Real Pats fans won't watch and their boycott will be Goodell's death knell.
Goodell would be gone by Monday morning if the ratings showed a precipitous drop.
Real Pats fans won't watch and their boycott will be Goodell's death knell.
Soooo tired of another Patriots Super Bowl, and imagine that their fans will excuse anything coming up today, next year, etc.
1
What a smear job by Macur who obviously is either prejudiced herself or hasn't done her research or both. In Short, Goodell, the NFL and its Wells Report have been often debunked, most notably by scientists from MIT, among others, and as well by multiple sports journalists, including Sally Jenkins of The Washington Post, Dan Wetzel of Yahoo sports, Mile Florio of NBC sports, etc. As far as so-called "Spygate" goes, that was also a spurious charge for countless reasons, to wit, the filming was commonly done and acknowledged by other coaches, including Jimmy Johnson of the Dallas Cowboys and by the accuser, Eric Mangini who has said he regrets he said anything; the filming was legal shortly before the game in question and was not a "legal" rule at the time; it was only newly outlawed on the sidelines (hardly secret in front of thousands of fans and could have been done easily from the stands or elsewhere).
And what difference did it make anyway in either case? The Patriots went on to compile an undefeated record in the regular season and, in the case of Brady and footballs, he played better in the second half of the game in question, plus all reports are that he's playing better than ever currently under what must be intense observation.
In short, the charges of cheating are "Trumped" up, likely from jealous competitors and fans, including perhaps Macur, herself. It's unfortunate that she brings disrepute to The New York Times, my home page newspaper.
And what difference did it make anyway in either case? The Patriots went on to compile an undefeated record in the regular season and, in the case of Brady and footballs, he played better in the second half of the game in question, plus all reports are that he's playing better than ever currently under what must be intense observation.
In short, the charges of cheating are "Trumped" up, likely from jealous competitors and fans, including perhaps Macur, herself. It's unfortunate that she brings disrepute to The New York Times, my home page newspaper.
15
A pox on pro football. If I watch the Superbowl, I'll do it for the commercials and for Lady Gaga.
Watching a bunch of overpaid, over-muscled guys choosing to get brain injuries that will eventually kill them isn't the best use of my time.
Watching a bunch of overpaid, over-muscled guys choosing to get brain injuries that will eventually kill them isn't the best use of my time.
2
This is such starchy nonsense it's hard to understand the lack of sports understanding of the author and his cohorts.
Although banned from baseball for many years, the spitball, vaseline ball, and scratched ball have been used by pitchers for many years. The fans accept it as part of the effort to win.
Flopping in basketball is widely still done although declared against the rules.
Fouls in football, basket ball and Hockey are intrinsic parts of the game.
So, to go over the top at a pecadillo like a few ounces of air pressure is just plain silly.
Get a life.
Although banned from baseball for many years, the spitball, vaseline ball, and scratched ball have been used by pitchers for many years. The fans accept it as part of the effort to win.
Flopping in basketball is widely still done although declared against the rules.
Fouls in football, basket ball and Hockey are intrinsic parts of the game.
So, to go over the top at a pecadillo like a few ounces of air pressure is just plain silly.
Get a life.
3
Of course a newspaper in NEW YORK does not pick a team from NEW ENGLAND to win the Superbowl. No surprise, but a lot of veiled jealously.
3
The Patriots success has nothing to do with cheating. It has to do with commitment to principles, to team-first, to the constant balancing of salary and performance. Belichick is more like a great portfolio manager than a coach or GM, and his "risk adjusted returns" have been exemplary.
8
What a slanderous article. NYT should be ashamed. What "cheating"? Spygate in 2006, for a practice that was practically universal among teams, taping signals that can be also seen by 80,000 spectators and for which they were levied a historically heavy penalty. How did that work? They followed that with an undefeated season, losing in the Superbowl in the final minutes. So really, a huge "cheating" advantage? What else? Noting other than the botched sting operation known as Deflategate, where scientists and informed observers found no evidence of cheating other than committed by the league. Again, absurdly disproportional penalties, including a first round pick and benching Brady for a quarter of a season. How did that work? In fact, every team "cheats." Interesting that NO former player has come forward with tales of nefarious cheating. Stop the slander.
9
What I find revealing about this publication and the author of the article, is that they're not the least afraid of being seen as attempting to smear a team the day of the Super Bowl game. [g] They don't care how it looks to try to make a team and their fans feel maligned on the day of the game. Pretty impolite behavior on the part of the Times, but not the first time.
4
It's the same reason why we subscribers keep supporting the biased news published in the New York Times: Passion and entertainment.
3
Forget the Patriots alleged cheating. That's minor league nonsense. The real `cheater' here is the NFL itself. And its crime is far worse that a deflated football or some video-tape spying. The NFL cheats young men out of their lives. By ignoring the grotesque legacy of concussions, the NFL's very existence is based on cheating. It sacrifices lives for profit. That's real cheating. And it's no game.
7
An employee calling himself “the deflator” dragging balls into the bathroom. I would have respected the team if they had just been open about what happened, but no. Exponent Labs of Menlo Park, California, a highly respected scientific lab, is utterly skewered. The entire thing is a disgrace.
There is no evidence of any kind of moral character on display here by the New England Patriots. This is what we teach our children. Very nice. As Bill Belichick is fond of saying: “End of Story.”
There is no evidence of any kind of moral character on display here by the New England Patriots. This is what we teach our children. Very nice. As Bill Belichick is fond of saying: “End of Story.”
I just wish Americans would value NASA more than the NFL. Which N word brings more value to us as citizens, let us ponder. Society funds the crybaby billionaires when they demand new stadiums and infrastructure, the payback is negative on every economic metric. We funded the space program in the 60's and 70's and we are still reaping from the scientific studies across the board. Kraft gave Putin his Super Bowl trinket, what did we get. Go Falcons.
2
"Deflategate": Just to reiterate, the football pressure, to within the measurement uncertainty of the gauges used, behaved exactly like the ideal gas law predicts. In this case the NFL/Goodell is ignoring the basic laws of physics and cheating the Pats.
(It added to the confusion that people from both Harvard and MIT applied the ideal gas law incorrectly in the days following the game and used gage pressure instead of absolute pressure.)
(It added to the confusion that people from both Harvard and MIT applied the ideal gas law incorrectly in the days following the game and used gage pressure instead of absolute pressure.)
1
It is funny reading this article because I know how hard it can be to understand football for women (I have tried and continue to fail). Juliet and Alisha show how the nuances of the game escape them. As explained to me by my father (a high school football coach),"cheating" is part of the game. Some cheating is acceptable (extra practices, spying, recruiting) some abhorrent (playing an ineligible player or injecting an injured player with drugs so he can play). You are always trying to get in the other guys head. Filming the opponent, deflating the footballs are considered as wrong as lying to a police officer to get out of a ticket. It is part of the game. Both sides are aware it happens. My suggestion is that if you don't understand, don't try. Those who understand can't really explain it. It is too confusing for the rest of us. I just watch the games for the food and beer anyway.
Lauren,
“I know how hard it can be to understand football for women (I have tried and continue to fail).”
As a woman who DOES understand the plays, the nuances, the complex offensive AND defensive plays--I am appalled that you would group ALL WOMEN AS TWITS! There is NOTHING special about the male brain to understand a game. There are men who also know absolutely nothing about football. Men aren’t born with a “football knowledge” gene.
As with any activity be it watching or playing sports, knitting or crocheting, doing one’s job whether as an MD or a tech expert--it’s the constant reading any and all magazine articles, blogs, SI, Bleacher Report, CBSSPORTS.com and so on. Watching the game from one’s favorite sports bar, with friends at a home, lucky enough to be in the stands, you talk football. Talking about the Wildcat, shotgun, pistol, three step QB drop back, fumblerooski--all comes with repetition, discussion--at times VERY heated discussions.
My first boyfriend was a ref. He taught me--Watch the refs on the field, THEY know the game--watch where they position themselves (True in football, hoops, baseball, soccer etc). Now at age 68 I’m the first one (man or woman) to say out loud--holding! Illegal receiver down field, illegal procedure--only four offensive players on the line...
PLEASE, do NOT continue the ridiculous statement that we dumb women just can’t understand football!! It’s only a game! Not a Spec Ops planned by Admiral William McRaven (USSOCOM)!!!
“I know how hard it can be to understand football for women (I have tried and continue to fail).”
As a woman who DOES understand the plays, the nuances, the complex offensive AND defensive plays--I am appalled that you would group ALL WOMEN AS TWITS! There is NOTHING special about the male brain to understand a game. There are men who also know absolutely nothing about football. Men aren’t born with a “football knowledge” gene.
As with any activity be it watching or playing sports, knitting or crocheting, doing one’s job whether as an MD or a tech expert--it’s the constant reading any and all magazine articles, blogs, SI, Bleacher Report, CBSSPORTS.com and so on. Watching the game from one’s favorite sports bar, with friends at a home, lucky enough to be in the stands, you talk football. Talking about the Wildcat, shotgun, pistol, three step QB drop back, fumblerooski--all comes with repetition, discussion--at times VERY heated discussions.
My first boyfriend was a ref. He taught me--Watch the refs on the field, THEY know the game--watch where they position themselves (True in football, hoops, baseball, soccer etc). Now at age 68 I’m the first one (man or woman) to say out loud--holding! Illegal receiver down field, illegal procedure--only four offensive players on the line...
PLEASE, do NOT continue the ridiculous statement that we dumb women just can’t understand football!! It’s only a game! Not a Spec Ops planned by Admiral William McRaven (USSOCOM)!!!
1
I'm a football fan and a woman, and something I've long recognized is that as much as I enjoy the complexities of the game and the strategy, I know that never having played football, does leave me at a distinct disadvantage that I can never overcome. As would be true in any endeavor that I could not participate in. And I have no interest in playing football, so, I'm content to enjoy football despite that fact.
@liz
Maybe girls and women aren’t playing American style football, WE ARE playing what the rest of the world calls futbal, soccer!
In fact in 2015 the USA WOMEN’S soccer team won the world FIFA championship!
“USA becomes first country to win three FIFA women’s world cup titles; Carli Lloyd scores first hat trick in WWC final history; Lauren Holiday and Tobin Heath add goals, their first of tournament.”
http://www.ussoccer.com/stories/2015/07/05/21/19/150705-wnt-v-jpn-game-s...
You don’t have to play football to understand the camaraderie and passion involved. A girl/woman can be part of a team of scientists who figured out genome sequencing--yeah we high five each other and understand the long hours of “practice” and the reaching the goal.
Women play in the WNBA, professional softball--(Men say they could NEVER hit these fast pitch softballs!). Women do play football in many states--some on the men’s teams. We play all the sports and play them well.
You don’t have to specifically play football to understand team work.
Maybe girls and women aren’t playing American style football, WE ARE playing what the rest of the world calls futbal, soccer!
In fact in 2015 the USA WOMEN’S soccer team won the world FIFA championship!
“USA becomes first country to win three FIFA women’s world cup titles; Carli Lloyd scores first hat trick in WWC final history; Lauren Holiday and Tobin Heath add goals, their first of tournament.”
http://www.ussoccer.com/stories/2015/07/05/21/19/150705-wnt-v-jpn-game-s...
You don’t have to play football to understand the camaraderie and passion involved. A girl/woman can be part of a team of scientists who figured out genome sequencing--yeah we high five each other and understand the long hours of “practice” and the reaching the goal.
Women play in the WNBA, professional softball--(Men say they could NEVER hit these fast pitch softballs!). Women do play football in many states--some on the men’s teams. We play all the sports and play them well.
You don’t have to specifically play football to understand team work.
1
Okay, well --
New York Yankees
"The New York Yankees are an American professional baseball team based in the New York City borough of the Bronx.
One of the most successful sports clubs in the world, the Yankees have won 18 division titles, 40 AL pennants, and 27 World Series championships, all of which are MLB records. 44 Yankees players and 11 Yankees managers have been inducted into the National Baseball Hall of Fame...
With their recurring success since the 1920s, the Yankees have since been one of the most popular teams in the world, with their fan base coming from much further than the New York metropolitan area.
The Yankees typically bring an upsurge in attendance at all or most of their various road-trip venues, drawing crowds of their own fans, as well as home-town fans whose interest is heightened when the Yankees come to town.
The first 1 million-fan season was in 1920, when 1,289,422 fans attended Yankee games at the Polo Grounds. The first 2 million-fan season was in 1946, when 2,265,512 fans attended the games at Yankee Stadium.
The Yankees have beaten the league average for home attendance 83 out of the last 87 years..."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_Yankees#World_Series_championships
While there is a population of die-hard "Yankee Haters" throughout the country - and possibly the world - those of us who are life-long fans of the Yankees are very comfortable with their winning history - so we really can't blame the Pats fans - can we... ?
New York Yankees
"The New York Yankees are an American professional baseball team based in the New York City borough of the Bronx.
One of the most successful sports clubs in the world, the Yankees have won 18 division titles, 40 AL pennants, and 27 World Series championships, all of which are MLB records. 44 Yankees players and 11 Yankees managers have been inducted into the National Baseball Hall of Fame...
With their recurring success since the 1920s, the Yankees have since been one of the most popular teams in the world, with their fan base coming from much further than the New York metropolitan area.
The Yankees typically bring an upsurge in attendance at all or most of their various road-trip venues, drawing crowds of their own fans, as well as home-town fans whose interest is heightened when the Yankees come to town.
The first 1 million-fan season was in 1920, when 1,289,422 fans attended Yankee games at the Polo Grounds. The first 2 million-fan season was in 1946, when 2,265,512 fans attended the games at Yankee Stadium.
The Yankees have beaten the league average for home attendance 83 out of the last 87 years..."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_Yankees#World_Series_championships
While there is a population of die-hard "Yankee Haters" throughout the country - and possibly the world - those of us who are life-long fans of the Yankees are very comfortable with their winning history - so we really can't blame the Pats fans - can we... ?
I have one thing to say.
Did you ever see the broadway play (or movie) “Damn Yankees?”
Nuff said. I HATE the Yankees--mainly b/c I’m an O’s fanatic. We ALL despise your cockiness and your owner’s unlimited funds to BUY any super star he wanted!
Gee! Eight years since YOUR last World Series win--2009! Wot happened?? Meantime the SF Giants have won three times--and the KC Royals?? Chicago Cubbies?
What Yankee powerhouse??--you’re living in the past brother and the “Captain” is gone along with Mario!
Did you ever see the broadway play (or movie) “Damn Yankees?”
Nuff said. I HATE the Yankees--mainly b/c I’m an O’s fanatic. We ALL despise your cockiness and your owner’s unlimited funds to BUY any super star he wanted!
Gee! Eight years since YOUR last World Series win--2009! Wot happened?? Meantime the SF Giants have won three times--and the KC Royals?? Chicago Cubbies?
What Yankee powerhouse??--you’re living in the past brother and the “Captain” is gone along with Mario!
1
The independent report was damning. No one would mess with Tom's footballs without his express order. Statistically near impossible for the variations to be random. Further, Nate Silver found the Pat's low number of fumbles over this period were statistically significant and also nearly impossible to be random. Something was at work. The crime was bad enough, but the cover up was arrogant and deceitful. Reflective of the current belief that winning is the only thing that matters, no matter the methods used to achieve that win. The fact that the player and the team continue to be glorified by the media and individuals indicative of the deterioration of morals in this country under which we are now all suffering.
1
1. Everyone from an MIT Professor to a sixth grade science student has poked holes in the "damning" not (as admitted in court) independent report. I had my doubts the day after the game when I started my car and found two underinflated inflated tires that had been normal the afternoon before. Hmmm... Hmm 2. The fumbles theory has likewise had many holes punched in it and didn't do things like controlling for coaching methodology (try carrying a football around with you for a week after dropping one in a game then see if you pay more attention to ball security). Guess who still has one of the lower but not the lowest fumble rates in the league ? 3. The NFL proved when employee electronic privacy rights matter in the age of text and social media. Stringing together a bunch of decontextualized messages to sway public opinion isn't the same as proving a point that will stand up. 4. Let's not forget: when asked in Court if it had any evidence that the Patriots had cheated regarding footballs, the NFL's answer was "no." 5. what was this about ? Besides the envy and whining of less successful teams ? Labor rights. The NFL had to find a way to reassert its ability to impose discipline on its players as per the agreement the PA had signed with it in the last negotiation. When the Second Circuit Court three judge panel ruled, that's what it ruled on. As for Spygate ? They did it, that's on them but they weren't the only team doing it.
You need to keep up. The variation in the footballs is explained by 3 factors. 1) variation in the wetness of the footballs (Headsmart labs who actually wet the footballs said that can account for up to 0.7 psi), 2) variation in the gloving affect (which Exponent admitted in the Brady appeal they didnt take into account because they assumed Jastremski gloved the footballs after setting the pressure when the Wells report explicitly states the gloved them just before setting the pressure, 3) the fact the footballs were kept in a bag up against the wall during halftime until just before each ball was measured (which by the way completely invalidates the transient curves in the Wells report which did not account for this). Footballs in the bottom of the bag surrounded by other cold footballs do not warm at the same rate as those at the top. You really need to learn facts before you post.
1
You are uninformed Christine. And the bunk about the fumbles statistics, was debunked a month after it made news by many professional statisticians.
It is amazing to me that a newspaper which has written lengthy articles about the fact that the "overwhelming scientific consensus" (the article's words) is that no deflation occurred (search "True Scandal of Deflategate Lies in the NFL's Behavior") continues to use something that has clearly been debunked as a "fact". A newspaper which has an ad on this very page that says "Truth. It's hard to find."
Yes, the Patriots cheated by filming from an enclosed location (which was not an approved location - although it is allowed to film). Yes, the Patriots had found the Jets doing the same thing and only had them stop. But still, the Patriots did do that. But we all know we can go to a site like Your Team Cheats and read about all sorts of things like this. Atlanta has admitted pumping in artificial crowd noise (2014). They have admitted to running illegal practices (2016). OK, that is wrong. Punish them and move on. Same with "spygate."
But for an article from the same paper that has shown how ridiculous the NFL has been regarding Deflategate (such as the NFL stating that there are "no records" of the testing of balls at halftime...even though referees are supposed to make measurements, record them, and preserve the records). We all know why the PSI was below 12.5. Dozens of scientists have explained it. You either believe science and facts as the truth, or you don't. This article shows at least one writer at the Times and one editor apparently don't.
Yes, the Patriots cheated by filming from an enclosed location (which was not an approved location - although it is allowed to film). Yes, the Patriots had found the Jets doing the same thing and only had them stop. But still, the Patriots did do that. But we all know we can go to a site like Your Team Cheats and read about all sorts of things like this. Atlanta has admitted pumping in artificial crowd noise (2014). They have admitted to running illegal practices (2016). OK, that is wrong. Punish them and move on. Same with "spygate."
But for an article from the same paper that has shown how ridiculous the NFL has been regarding Deflategate (such as the NFL stating that there are "no records" of the testing of balls at halftime...even though referees are supposed to make measurements, record them, and preserve the records). We all know why the PSI was below 12.5. Dozens of scientists have explained it. You either believe science and facts as the truth, or you don't. This article shows at least one writer at the Times and one editor apparently don't.
10
Don't forget that Bill Cowher, past coach for the Steelers, said every team was doing the same thing. The Jets, it was documented were doing the same thing. But Bill Cowher, was the only one with enough courage to come forward and admit it. Everyone else in the League preferred to make Bill a scapegoat. He makes such an easy target though, doesn't he?
And recently I wanted to find out about arrests in the NFL. Wow, what a shocker that is. There is a database of all the arrests of every team in the League and every team is represented there. It comes up as the first link in a Google search. A lot of arrests for Domestic abuse, DUIs and not a heck of a lot of consequences for most of them. Which makes me wonder just how much influence the NFL has had in keeping their players out of jail. The hypocrisy is very difficult to take.
And recently I wanted to find out about arrests in the NFL. Wow, what a shocker that is. There is a database of all the arrests of every team in the League and every team is represented there. It comes up as the first link in a Google search. A lot of arrests for Domestic abuse, DUIs and not a heck of a lot of consequences for most of them. Which makes me wonder just how much influence the NFL has had in keeping their players out of jail. The hypocrisy is very difficult to take.
It may be human nature to be prideful, envious, gluttonous, lustful, wrathful, greedy, and lazy but it's not our destiny. Yes, to continue to support the team that cheats appeals to the same rationalizing impulse that lying about our "fairness" does when we unfairly advantage ourselves thinking we won't be caught. And that rationalizing impulse is also at work when the evangelical Christian votes for the politician who embodies the 7 deadly sins.
1
Are there NFL teams out there with perfect sports ethics? Cf. Atlanta's Practicegate 2016, Noisegate 2013-14, Cellphonegate 2005. Is there a politician who's never fibbed? Wake up and get a life, Juliet!
10
When does wrong wrong justify another?
When I was a kid playing hard-touch football on empty, broken glass and rock strewn parking lots, cheating was an expected and accepted part of the game. Back then games were never policed by parents, coaches or referees and typically broke up when the sky was growing dark, unless some added time was needed to finish a fight.
2
The reasons people dislike the Patriots are very similar to why people dislike Hillary Clinton:
1. both the Pats and HRC have been very successful over a long period of time
2. that success was earned through lots of hard work - no one is just handed a Lombardi trophy or Senator race
3. in an effort to delegitimize that success, their detractors look for "scandals" which in turn get lots of coverage
4. The Pats' leaders (Brady and Belichick), just like HRC, are not relatable and refuse to adjust their personality to appease the mass audience
Does anyone who understands football seriously think that deflategate gave the Patriots an unfair advantage? No. Does anyone who understands the job of Secretary of State really think HRC was responsible for Benghazi? Of course not.
A report on the psychology of losers justifying their position by ignoring the facts (less talent, less drive) and instead seeking "alternative" reasons for the success of their rivals, would be more interesting.
1. both the Pats and HRC have been very successful over a long period of time
2. that success was earned through lots of hard work - no one is just handed a Lombardi trophy or Senator race
3. in an effort to delegitimize that success, their detractors look for "scandals" which in turn get lots of coverage
4. The Pats' leaders (Brady and Belichick), just like HRC, are not relatable and refuse to adjust their personality to appease the mass audience
Does anyone who understands football seriously think that deflategate gave the Patriots an unfair advantage? No. Does anyone who understands the job of Secretary of State really think HRC was responsible for Benghazi? Of course not.
A report on the psychology of losers justifying their position by ignoring the facts (less talent, less drive) and instead seeking "alternative" reasons for the success of their rivals, would be more interesting.
100
Right, cheating is okay because they would have won anyway.
2
You need to read Christopher Hitchens' 1999 book, "No One Left To Lie To - The Triangulations of William Jefferson Clinton" and lose your delusion. Two Arkansas grifters betray every entity they ever came in contact with, to great success.
3
Isn't this about Trump, the Trump government, and Trump supporters? Once a supporter, almost anything goes, almost any facts can be twisted. The recipe for authoritarianism is widespread, and the battle to save ourselves ongoing and difficult.
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It would be fun to say that football is a window onto our our civic institutions and loyalties, but i'm afraid it's much more serious than that.
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It would be fun to say that football is a window onto our our civic institutions and loyalties, but i'm afraid it's much more serious than that.
9
About Trump? Well isn't everything about Trump now? [g] And you do know that every state in New England supported Clinton, right?
In law there is always a term called best evidence. The "facts" referred to in the article are at the very least questionable. The Wells report based its conclusions on a lab for hire that had in other cases found that asbestos did not cause disabilities and smoking wasn't primarily responsible for cancer' They came to the conclusions that Goodell wanted. Independent university research, including exhaustive work done at MIT among other schools, found that the ideal gas law supported the Patriot's assertion that the balls were not purposely deflated. In an actual court of law, as opposed to Goodell's Star Chamber, best evidence would have overwhelmingly favored the Patriots. Most people also don't know that the NFL's own punishment even if this so called "Deflategate" was true is a $20,000 fine. Unfortunately we are in a universe of alternate facts and its unfortunate that your writer did not take the time to examine the truth behind the baloney.
44
"winning isn't everything,.. it's the only thing" ,..regardless of who originally said it, has, unsurprisingly, come to dominate pro sports ,..and where it reflects or informs our new commander in chief's approach perfectly....Not to mention the republicans in the house and senate as they attempt to steal a supreme court seat
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3
Truly pathetic to read these desperate attempts to find greater depth and make political points in NFL.
I am certain you are as aware as I am that Biden and the Democrat Senate told W. that in his lame duck year he will get no SCOTUS appointment. Do you not suffer cognitive dissonance?
I am certain you are as aware as I am that Biden and the Democrat Senate told W. that in his lame duck year he will get no SCOTUS appointment. Do you not suffer cognitive dissonance?
it's easy to quip on what's seen on the surface from afar
unless we spend time really understanding the issues it's not really fair to the accused. would Spygatr have happened if an overzealous ex coach fraught with a loss had accused his ex mentor? Mangini has since stated he regrets his actions. and yes apparently everyone was doing it? but the pats paid the price for everyone. would deflategate have happened if the 5 owners (two in same division) had not pressured the commissioner? if other losing coaches and gm had not accused prior to the afc championships when there was a process in place the nfl was responsible for. what if Spygate never happened would deflate gate be an issue? the bottomline and common denominator is envy jealousy money etc.... if the patriots weren't so good no one would care.
unless we spend time really understanding the issues it's not really fair to the accused. would Spygatr have happened if an overzealous ex coach fraught with a loss had accused his ex mentor? Mangini has since stated he regrets his actions. and yes apparently everyone was doing it? but the pats paid the price for everyone. would deflategate have happened if the 5 owners (two in same division) had not pressured the commissioner? if other losing coaches and gm had not accused prior to the afc championships when there was a process in place the nfl was responsible for. what if Spygate never happened would deflate gate be an issue? the bottomline and common denominator is envy jealousy money etc.... if the patriots weren't so good no one would care.
7
Pats-haters are blind to the many similar indiscretions (cheating) that goes on right in plain sight around the league. Last year when the Pats went to Green Bay--i watched Aaron Rodgers being interviewed. this was before "deflate-gate." He said he liked his balls over-inflated---"even past the limit." no one--including me--thought anything of it.
The Jets have been caught taping the Pats as well. just google it. but this was not news. why? hhmmmmm? because they keep winning? more than any team ever in the NFL? and the haters claim this is due to cheating? ridiculous. any true fan of the game can see the excellence and preperation behind the Patriots epic dynasty. they are 86--0 when ahead at the half at home!! this is genius---which--sadly--is so often envied and despised in this new USA of "alternative facts."
The Jets have been caught taping the Pats as well. just google it. but this was not news. why? hhmmmmm? because they keep winning? more than any team ever in the NFL? and the haters claim this is due to cheating? ridiculous. any true fan of the game can see the excellence and preperation behind the Patriots epic dynasty. they are 86--0 when ahead at the half at home!! this is genius---which--sadly--is so often envied and despised in this new USA of "alternative facts."
10
For all my football fan life, I have always rooted against the Patriots and Bill Bellicheat but it was always in good fun. It is just a game after all, outside of commercial interests and entertainment it has no impact on society overall.
What is more concerning though is the unabashed support they (Bellichick, Brady, and Kraft) have for Trump even after all Trump has said and done. These are not factory workers who lost their job to immigrants or automation or environmental regulations, or had their life uprooted by some other event and think Trump is the only way out. These are the guys who play with majority non-white (Blacks and Latino) athletes and are supposed to be model people in their respective setup - coach, player, owner; but they would still support a racist and xenophobic person is beyond me!
What is more concerning though is the unabashed support they (Bellichick, Brady, and Kraft) have for Trump even after all Trump has said and done. These are not factory workers who lost their job to immigrants or automation or environmental regulations, or had their life uprooted by some other event and think Trump is the only way out. These are the guys who play with majority non-white (Blacks and Latino) athletes and are supposed to be model people in their respective setup - coach, player, owner; but they would still support a racist and xenophobic person is beyond me!
9
Sometimes a football game is just a football game. I, too, despise Trump. But I still back the Patriots.
1
I agree with your points wholeheartedly. In addition, if Bellicheat is such a genius, why was he unable to make an impact on the woeful Browns? They had a roster full of those elements for which he excels--"retreads and spare parts."
If morality can change by the second, then let's praise all the introverts, whose reliance on the group is minimal and are more inclined to follow their moral compass.
If morality can change by the second, then let's praise all the introverts, whose reliance on the group is minimal and are more inclined to follow their moral compass.
I think you should read the history of BB when he was at the Browns. He actually was having an impact, which considering the state the Browns were in when he arrived, did not happen instantly. And just as they started to make progress, the team was told as the final season began, that the team was going to be moving to another city. Not difficult to grasp why they underperformed the rest of that season.
I'm sorry, but if cheating is human nature, we need to rethink what it means to be human.
7
Except that they didn't cheat.
1
Are you kidding me? Have you never read any history? Humans cheat. In Christianity the Prince of this world is Lucifer. We are not sons of God in our natural state. Only if we embrace the God of the Bible and live according to His rules can we become sons of God.
Interesting piece, but based on the flawed premise that the Patriots cheat more than the typical NFL franchise. http://yourteamcheats.com/cheaters/
18
Why? Because all these transgressions are inconsequential much like doing 60 in a 55 zone. The real question is why do loser fans have to grab onto something, anything, to ease their bruised egos. You can't imagine how ticky-tacky and envious all of you sound to Patriots fans. You've latched on to a fraction of a psi so you don't have to face the reality of your losing team. That's it? Thats the best you can do?
20
Are you kidding me, NYT? Wasn't there enough to fill your pages today? I'm not a regular sports watcher nor do I have a strong allegiance to any professional sports teams, including the New England Patriots. That being said, this op-ed (yeah that's what it is) is a terribly biased, unprofessional and unfair piece to be printing anytime but especially on the day of the big game. It doesn't take a genius (or maybe it does) to understand the long time winning statistics of the Patriots, which are really the only explanation for yet another Super Bowl appearance. If the other NFL teams could figure out how to replicate the things that make the Patriots successful, they'd be doing it in a heartbeat. It seems to me that Patriots fans don't blindly love and support a bunch of "cheaters", they love and support a bunch of winners who repeatedly do their jobs very, very well. It also seems to me that in NFL country, all the haters, the author included, just can't help the hating either.
76
Thank you Laura!
3
The issue here is that there are no real facts that the Patriots have cheated. People want to believe they have because they don't like too much success. The deflategate report actually was all supposition with no actual facts behind it. The fact that science has debunked the whole thing is somehow overlooked. This would never had stood up in a real court of law. The only thing the court really ruled on is Goodell's right to punish as he sees fit, facts be damned. In regards to the spygate issue, Yes, it was wrong but they were indeed not the only team to be doing this as many players throughout the league have intimated. The difference is that jealously reared its ugly head against a great team that many are hoping to take down in other ways since they can't do it on the field. This sportswriter is a case in point. The Patriots have proved time and time again that they win because they just have what it takes and they work hard. So stop being jealous.
22
Something is missing in this analysis.
It completely ignores the ways in which the NFL -- and MLB for that matter -- and what was once known as the "sporting press" created the myth that a team, any team, or player(s) "belong" to the fans.
It was created by owners and the leagues decades and decades ago, to build their business. The "fan" is part of an economic model owners need, and the fans themselves appear to lack the requisite intelligence to understand this manipulation.
When you are told over and over again by local team sportswriters/broadcasters and the owner (not as often) the Patriots belong to you, and Brady is your man, and the coach is Vince Lombardi six times over, well, Pats fans actually believe it. It's right there in some sports column, or in some crumb thrown to the fans by the owner of the team.
What's also missing in this column is the fact that win or lose, absolutely nothing the Patriots, or any team, does has any impact on the lives of these obsessed fanatics. Nothing. If the Patriots win tonight, it will not improve the life of one person in Boston or its suburbs. It won't get them a new job, a raise, or erase college loan debt. It has absolutely nothing to do with them.
It's fine to root for a local team. But the extreme identification of Pats fans to a business franchise is very twisted.
Need they be reminded, yet again, that if it suits the owner, he'll move the Patriots to Montana next week?
Ask loyal Baltimore Colt fans, just for starters.
It completely ignores the ways in which the NFL -- and MLB for that matter -- and what was once known as the "sporting press" created the myth that a team, any team, or player(s) "belong" to the fans.
It was created by owners and the leagues decades and decades ago, to build their business. The "fan" is part of an economic model owners need, and the fans themselves appear to lack the requisite intelligence to understand this manipulation.
When you are told over and over again by local team sportswriters/broadcasters and the owner (not as often) the Patriots belong to you, and Brady is your man, and the coach is Vince Lombardi six times over, well, Pats fans actually believe it. It's right there in some sports column, or in some crumb thrown to the fans by the owner of the team.
What's also missing in this column is the fact that win or lose, absolutely nothing the Patriots, or any team, does has any impact on the lives of these obsessed fanatics. Nothing. If the Patriots win tonight, it will not improve the life of one person in Boston or its suburbs. It won't get them a new job, a raise, or erase college loan debt. It has absolutely nothing to do with them.
It's fine to root for a local team. But the extreme identification of Pats fans to a business franchise is very twisted.
Need they be reminded, yet again, that if it suits the owner, he'll move the Patriots to Montana next week?
Ask loyal Baltimore Colt fans, just for starters.
7
There is so little information in this article. And what there is, is innuendo: "they cheated in the past, and they are still winning so they must still be cheating", "They are staffed with rejects, but they are still winning, so they must be cheating."
Add that to a gobbledygook overarching premise that people take the easy way out, and lie about it (I was not sure what that applied to: the Patriots because they supposedly cheat and lie about it, of the fans because it is easier to like the team in your neighborhood than not???).
As a Boston sports fan, I have always thought that that it is way more fun for the home town team to win a disputed game. We loved the "snow bowl" with the snow plow out of the field clearing the kick, or the fumble that was called an incomplete pass. I think it comes from living next to the Yankees for years.
Add that to a gobbledygook overarching premise that people take the easy way out, and lie about it (I was not sure what that applied to: the Patriots because they supposedly cheat and lie about it, of the fans because it is easier to like the team in your neighborhood than not???).
As a Boston sports fan, I have always thought that that it is way more fun for the home town team to win a disputed game. We loved the "snow bowl" with the snow plow out of the field clearing the kick, or the fumble that was called an incomplete pass. I think it comes from living next to the Yankees for years.
14
We ought to also ask why the press and supporters of other teams are inclined to believe the absolute worst and to exaggerate it. The press of course needs stories, so their precise account of the truth is always in doubt. And for the same psychobabble reasons adduced here, when it isn't your team, you tend to ascribe their success to extraneous ("unfair") factors. Precisely: the Spygate incident was about having a cameraman on the field rather than in the stands. The size of the fine was because BB had egregiously ignored repeated directives from the league to keep cameramen off the field. The punishment was not for getting an unfair advantage but for disregarding the authorities in the league office. THAT's what matters to the NFL. Deflategate: No science just "take 'em down a peg." In the end, Roger the Dodger claimed that the punishment was because Brady wouldn't show deference to the league and turn over his phone. Would you? The Times can do better than this shallow hackery.
11
EXCELLENT. A bunch of crybaby loser/owners who do all the same type of things. But are missing a couple ingredients: Belichick, Brady, team approach like the Auerbach Celtics and trophies!
1
I've read the court transcripts, the Wells Report, scientific PSI studies, and much more. My conclusion is that there was no ball deflation.
The NFL reached a hasty conclusion and worked backward from there. They admitted in court that they hadn't known about the Ideal Gas Law and had no direct evidence of any wrongdoing at the AFC championship game that was the subject of the investigation. Ted Wells, with the assistance of the NFL's own Jeff Pash, mischaracterized many points of evidence in the report and tried hard to stop the report from being released to the public. Roger Goodell has lied several times about what happened and even just this week insisted on mischaracterizing the Second Circuit's court ruling.
The NFL leaked to Chris Mortensen that the Patriots' balls were severely underinflated and the Colts' balls weren't. Not true, but the League didn't correct the false report and Mortensen left it up on his Twitter feed for many months. League investigators told Brady they didn't need his cellphone but when, months later, they learned that he'd destroyed it after getting a new phone, the League jumped all over it as evidence of wrongdoing. The court of public opinion did the League's work and Brady's good name has been tarnished.
Sportswriters who are not Patriots fans––Mike Florio for example––now agree that there was no delfation. Independent scientists have shown that the ball PSIs were as expected for the weather conditions. But the harm has been done.
The NFL reached a hasty conclusion and worked backward from there. They admitted in court that they hadn't known about the Ideal Gas Law and had no direct evidence of any wrongdoing at the AFC championship game that was the subject of the investigation. Ted Wells, with the assistance of the NFL's own Jeff Pash, mischaracterized many points of evidence in the report and tried hard to stop the report from being released to the public. Roger Goodell has lied several times about what happened and even just this week insisted on mischaracterizing the Second Circuit's court ruling.
The NFL leaked to Chris Mortensen that the Patriots' balls were severely underinflated and the Colts' balls weren't. Not true, but the League didn't correct the false report and Mortensen left it up on his Twitter feed for many months. League investigators told Brady they didn't need his cellphone but when, months later, they learned that he'd destroyed it after getting a new phone, the League jumped all over it as evidence of wrongdoing. The court of public opinion did the League's work and Brady's good name has been tarnished.
Sportswriters who are not Patriots fans––Mike Florio for example––now agree that there was no delfation. Independent scientists have shown that the ball PSIs were as expected for the weather conditions. But the harm has been done.
33
An Employee calling himself "the deflator" dragging balls into the bathroom. As Bill Belichick is fond of saying: "End of Story." I would have respected the team if they had just owned up, but no.
I notice you don't mention the definitive work done by Exponent Labs. Cherry picking facts is also a fun pastime these days.
I notice you don't mention the definitive work done by Exponent Labs. Cherry picking facts is also a fun pastime these days.
1
Thanks for proving the point of the article. PS - Did you even read it?
1
"Definitive work" by Exponent? You've got to be kidding. This is the same company that shaped its findings for Big Tobacco and denied that secondhand smoke causes cancer. Numerous researchers have poked holes in the Wells report (try "Deflating Deflategate" by the American Enterprise Institute, for starters). The word "deflator" was used *once,* in a text sent during the off-season. You're not just cherry-picking facts yourself; you're cherry-picking alternative facts. Well done.
1
The punishment for cheating is less than the reward for winning, so the incentive is to cheat to win. The NFL needs a rule that would vacate Super Bowl titles won by teams found to have cheated. The NCAA does this, and so should the NFL.
6
I guess then that they would have to show that cheating occurred. The Wells report has been thoroughly and completely debunked by numerous scientists all around the country and in Europe.
The Patriots cheated by getting their dupes, Goodell and the other owners, to suspend Brady for four games so he is rested for the Super Bowl
10
You certainly are not trying to argue that "Spygate" was about cheating, are you? Surely you understand that "Spygate" was merely about filming from a level in the stands that had previously been allowed and was only slightly lower than what was being practiced by all other teams? Surely you understand that NO pregame "walk-throughs" were ever filmed, and that no information not otherwise available to every other team was used by the Pats?
And as for Deflategate.... Have you read the Wells report? Have you read the rebuttals by the Zoatriots and the science community? Have you made an effort to understand the ideal gas law? Have you made an effort to analyze the conduct of Roger Goodell and his Fifth Ave cronies sho have had long time biases against the Pats? Have you seen the recent documentary on the league's dishonest. Induct in this affair?
I'm guessing not. As in so much in this day and age, the actual facts are tough to swallow. Tgere is an enormous amount of hate and jealousy for Tom Brady, I'll Bekichick, and the New England Patriots, who have shown nothing but class and the personification of excellence for nearly two decades. That's ok. It's human nature. It's also pretty pathetic.
And as for Deflategate.... Have you read the Wells report? Have you read the rebuttals by the Zoatriots and the science community? Have you made an effort to understand the ideal gas law? Have you made an effort to analyze the conduct of Roger Goodell and his Fifth Ave cronies sho have had long time biases against the Pats? Have you seen the recent documentary on the league's dishonest. Induct in this affair?
I'm guessing not. As in so much in this day and age, the actual facts are tough to swallow. Tgere is an enormous amount of hate and jealousy for Tom Brady, I'll Bekichick, and the New England Patriots, who have shown nothing but class and the personification of excellence for nearly two decades. That's ok. It's human nature. It's also pretty pathetic.
24
Where are your Pat's season tickets?
1
The problem with this article is that you start the analysis with a statement of fact that the Patriots have been caught twice cheating. They have been punished twice for cheating, not the same as being guilty. I will fully give you spygate, but deflategate has been proven a fraud and a witch hunt. The Wells report has been decimated by scientists, many outside of new england and even the country. The scientific firm they hired is known to write whatever you pay them to write.
So you write an article that assumes certain facts and then ask why we forgive them? I could ask why do you insist on repeating misleading facts? Why psychologically are you desperate to disparage the Patriots?
So you write an article that assumes certain facts and then ask why we forgive them? I could ask why do you insist on repeating misleading facts? Why psychologically are you desperate to disparage the Patriots?
28
Apologies if someone has already written this, but Seinfeld was correct. In the end we just cheer for a piece of laundry.
7
Scratch the surface of the average person with strong opinions about X, or who "knows" Y --- more often than not, they don't really know anything about it at all.
Spygate? -- probably a rules infraction, a widespread one according to Jimmy Johnson, but also probably of zero consequence.
Deflategate? -- doubtful that it happened at all and demonstrated to be of zero consequence in any case.
Trumpgate? -- Brady, Belichick and the embarrassing Krafts supporting Donald Trump. Now that's a problem.
Spygate? -- probably a rules infraction, a widespread one according to Jimmy Johnson, but also probably of zero consequence.
Deflategate? -- doubtful that it happened at all and demonstrated to be of zero consequence in any case.
Trumpgate? -- Brady, Belichick and the embarrassing Krafts supporting Donald Trump. Now that's a problem.
9
Why do we accept cheating? It's quite simple actually. We are a nation of cheaters, liars and thieves. Yes,yes I know..Not YOU :) I know, not me either but let's get real.
We just elected, as a leader, a known liar,cheater and thief. Why should Americas sports teams be any different? Americans want results..at any cost. Cheat to win? Absolutely. Steal legally and use the law to get away with it? Now you are a hero.
Tom Brady is the perfect example of white conservative, he oozes it. I am thinking that he couldn't cheat..just look at him! Why, he looks just like my second grade teacher..
Sigh. We need to begin a new trend here in America. We need to own us. We need to acknowledge and embrace our American ideology. We lie. We cheat. We steal.All the time. In almost every way.
We knowingly take advantage when we can, we are Americans.The only people on the planet that don't know this..are us:( I myself am guilty of living in the bubble, I had no idea. We are a nation of make believe and now that facts are decided by the individual, why, the sky is the limit.
I say cheat if you can. Winning is the only thing! Lie if you get caught and make the facts up as you go. Make America great..again?
Trump is great! Putin is our friend and the New England Patriots deserve to win if they can get away with it.Life is good and it was cold this morning here in Arizona, so I know climate change is false.
My grandmother told me. "Cheaters never prosper."
Hmmm. Tom B. is doing well. Sorry Gran.
We just elected, as a leader, a known liar,cheater and thief. Why should Americas sports teams be any different? Americans want results..at any cost. Cheat to win? Absolutely. Steal legally and use the law to get away with it? Now you are a hero.
Tom Brady is the perfect example of white conservative, he oozes it. I am thinking that he couldn't cheat..just look at him! Why, he looks just like my second grade teacher..
Sigh. We need to begin a new trend here in America. We need to own us. We need to acknowledge and embrace our American ideology. We lie. We cheat. We steal.All the time. In almost every way.
We knowingly take advantage when we can, we are Americans.The only people on the planet that don't know this..are us:( I myself am guilty of living in the bubble, I had no idea. We are a nation of make believe and now that facts are decided by the individual, why, the sky is the limit.
I say cheat if you can. Winning is the only thing! Lie if you get caught and make the facts up as you go. Make America great..again?
Trump is great! Putin is our friend and the New England Patriots deserve to win if they can get away with it.Life is good and it was cold this morning here in Arizona, so I know climate change is false.
My grandmother told me. "Cheaters never prosper."
Hmmm. Tom B. is doing well. Sorry Gran.
11
The question is more, why do every team and it's fans and their related media insist on asking why Patriot fans "excuse" cheating, which I believe they don't, but why do other fans excuse the cheating by everyone in the League but the Patriots? [g] Why do so many Americans excuse their own behavior of maligning a team in the League on the day of the biggest game of the season, in light of the fact that same team has been crucified in the media, relentlessly for two years? I'd really like to know what motivates them to do it? Is there a psychological study about that? [g]
New England Patriots cheat
Owner, coach and quarterback support Trump
Trump lies cheats hates and steals
One big happy American success story
GO FALCONS!!!!!!
Owner, coach and quarterback support Trump
Trump lies cheats hates and steals
One big happy American success story
GO FALCONS!!!!!!
7
I have a simple theory...cheaters stick together. Not all Patriots fans are cheaters, of course, but generally people who cheat or will knowingly do wrong in order to win at any cost, tend to support one another to absolve guilt and justify their behavior. My sister-in-law, a Boston resident and staunch NE fan, has a reputation of engaging in slip-n-fall lawsuits of deeply dubious bases. A loud and obnoxious bully, she steadfastly denies her Hispanic heritage in her quest to climb the social ladder. An equally stanch Trump supporter, she will bellow her disapproval and lack of compassion of the less fortunate, of which she was one in her early life. She, too, will do anything to feel like a winner by siding with what she perceives to be winners.
3
Do you really imagine that New England is a region of Trump-supporting insurance cheats? Clinton beat Trump 2-to-1 in Mass. The real mystery is that liberals here can overlook the team leaders' strong support of a President that we generally despise. Yet another form of cognitive dissonance.
2
Aside from being caught with a red hat and a few e-mails, Brady and Belichick did nothing to further Trump's campaign in Massachusetts or anywhere else, as opposed to a LeBron James who was all in for Clinton. Patriot's owner Bob Kraft has been a life long Democrat and any closeness to Trump now evolved from Trump's kind actions after the death of his wife Myra, which even I who find Trump a disaster as President, recognize as compelling.
2
Love may be blind, but Roger Goodell wasn't loving and was blind to the evidence on "deflategate." The Patriots didn't cheat. Goodell was wrong from the start and refused to accept the overwhelming evidence that he simply didn't have a case.
17
Like many of your readers, I've had countless arguments with friends who are die-hard Pats fans about the cheating history. They offer up an explanation for everything, and no matter how flimsy their defenses are, they stick to them to the (usually not very) bitter end. What I find effective in closing out the discussion -- you can try this yourselves -- is to point out that no matter how much we may disagree about the 1982 game against the Dolphins with the snow-clearing fiasco, Spygate, and Deflategate, we ALL know how that fourth paragraph of Tom Terrific's obituary will read . . . except that it may not appear at all, or at best be buried at the bottom of the story, in the news organs in his Loyal-to-the-End New England.
3
In sports, this is amusing. In politics and related issues (like race relations), the implications are frightening.
1
For me the deal breaker with the Pats has not been the cheating- because, having lived with Yankee fans all my young life, I believe that all teams cheat. It is the support of the big 3 for Trump
Football is one thing- Begging Russia to hack Clinton is another!
Alternative facts? right out of 1984!
I have been a Pats fan since Steve Grogan- but no more
Go Falcons!
Football is one thing- Begging Russia to hack Clinton is another!
Alternative facts? right out of 1984!
I have been a Pats fan since Steve Grogan- but no more
Go Falcons!
6
I've been a fan since Jim Plunkett was QB...no more.
I might flick back after kraft dies and belechik and brady are long gone but until then I'm good.
I might flick back after kraft dies and belechik and brady are long gone but until then I'm good.
Same reason a lot of them voted for Trump: they want to win, at any cost. And lying, cheating, stealing and berating opponents is all seen as ok. There's a sickness in America that approves of winning without honor. The players who beat up their wives and girlfriends, yet aren't penalized or fired. The players who cheat by deflating the ball, and are only tapped on the wrist. The team owners who try to strong arm cities into paying for huge stadiums, on the flimsy and breakable promise that a team will stay put. Step away from the emotions and you can begin to see the deep lack of ethics in professional sports.
3
You think a lot of New England fans voted for Trump? You know New England is one of the most loyal democratic strongholds in the country right?
3
Winning allows fans to forgive anything. I remember how Bill Parcells ran a tough, disciplined Giants team in the 1980's and early 90's. Lawrence Taylor was using drugs and doing all sorts of things outside the mainstream, but the fans didn't seem to care, and neither did Parcells. They overlooked everything because Taylor made the Giants a winner. It's hypocritical, but it's that simple.
3
Ok, you got me with click-bait.
Juliet, you obviously know nothing about football and have little understanding of the facts. This has nothing to do with cheating. This is simply an NFL optics issue, spanking the Patriots for being for thumbing their noses at how fake and disingenuous the league is.
Juliet, you obviously know nothing about football and have little understanding of the facts. This has nothing to do with cheating. This is simply an NFL optics issue, spanking the Patriots for being for thumbing their noses at how fake and disingenuous the league is.
6
This whole psychology applies equally to sports, politics, religion and nationality.
3
I wonder if there's any connection between this ends-justify-the-means thinking in sports and members of a political party turning a blind eye to the same unethical behavior currently taking place in the White House. President Trump was elected by people who fully knew that he cheated contractors, exploited his tax advantages, abused women, lied constantly in his public appearances, disparaged the truth and much more. So when it comes to sports and games, how is this any kind of surprise???
6
Although Macur is writing about the willingness of Patriots’ fans to overlook cheating, the research she discusses relates to political culture as well as sports culture. This is therefore helpful to those of us who are trying to understand how Republican family members and friends could vote for Trump even though we know they abhor his low ethical standards. Apparently they can’t help themselves. He’s the leader of their team, and so they are willing to give him more leeway in order to improve their own chances for prosperity. But at what cost to their self-respect, and, of course, the good of our country? It’s a frightening equation.
1
"Your moral compass shifts." Exactly. It is the same way that certain people (including, bizarrely, some women) excuse Trump's abhorrent "grabbing" behaviour, and now that he is in office, excuse his self-absorbed crudeness, lack of governing skills, and perhaps worst of all, his placing in positions of power individuals with no qualifications for the job and with highly questionable motives. Sadly it is not just a sport that is at issue.
2
This country is obsessed with escape from reality.
1
Explains why moral outrage rarely spans both sides of the political aisle.
1
Well, of course in relentlessly focusing on the cheating narrative with the pats it could be that there is widespread commercial interests and petty sore loserism at work in the minds of fans and media alike. For example, on the day of the Super Bowl a relatively important publication like the NYTimes publishes this without a peep about an actual cheating scandal that mattered involving -- I dunno -- the Falcons! Pumped in noise, but whatever.
It is unreal. You will also notice that this article exists exclusively in the echo chamber of anti-Pats rhetoric in which the specific details of how shoddy these cases were is never considered. You people are all nuts.
go to: yourteamcheats.com
The issue is not that the Pats cheat more -- if they cheat at all it is less than the median. It is that they win.
It is unreal. You will also notice that this article exists exclusively in the echo chamber of anti-Pats rhetoric in which the specific details of how shoddy these cases were is never considered. You people are all nuts.
go to: yourteamcheats.com
The issue is not that the Pats cheat more -- if they cheat at all it is less than the median. It is that they win.
5
What a think piece. Except the reporter does not exhibit much thinking, or chops for reportage, research, and ability to truly find a new angle on this story. Why did the reporter incorrectly characterize Spygate as an a transgression of filming other teams when TO THIS day, per the NFL rulebook, you can film opposing coaches so long as you do you use the film in real time? The Patriots were never fined for violating that part of the rule, they were fined for failing to film from a location with a roof covering (ie. the booth), a new specification that came out the year before. And how is it possible the reporter failed to mention that numerous scientists, including an MIT scientist, have demonstrated beyond the slightest scintilla of a doubt that the "science" referred to in the so called "deflategate" Wells Report was utter junk? Lastly, and most troublingly, the reporter failed or chose not to provide the slightest context of "cheating" around the league. A cursory review of yourteamcheats.com documents all the gamesmanship, edge-seeking behavior around the league. Was the reporter just not ready to adjudicate the degree of transgression between the Patriots' past and, say, the Atlanta Falcons being fined for pumping fake crowd noise into their stadium while their opponents were on offense? Maybe then the article could have expanded to feature an with interview a expert who specializes in faux moral superiority to shed some light on this tired, played out issue.
5
We are hard-wired to believe strongly in our tribe because our very survival depended upon it for much of human history. For only the past 250 or so years has the capitalist economy allowed (and even glorified) autonomy. But human nature changes only gradually, so despite all the affluence of modern society, we have much higher rates of mental illness now than ever before because the social interconnections we crave are so sorely lacking. For more on this, please read "Tribe: On Homecoming and Belonging" by Sebastian Junger.
5
Why do fans excuse Jets coaches from tripping players on the sidelines, or their players getting caught using PED's, allowing abrett Favre to harass female employees, or their owner tampering with Reevis? Why would they excuse the Giants from their culture of PED use, Taylorgate, and ILLEGALY using walkie talkies to communicate with Manning? Unfortunately the author failed to be unbiased in her opinion, actually research the issue and instead cites "a student who transferred from Northeastern University to UT Dallas". That is laughable.
It's sad that people can't actually admit when something is just plain better. I despise the Yankees and their long storied history of cheating but I would never say during those runs that they were not the best team.
Every single football team cheats. If you don't belive me, there is a source that cites material that doesn't come from the mouth of a student who couldn't make it in Boston and then went back home to daddy's ranch in Texas.
A better article would have focused on the real issue in the NFL and the true answer to why the Patriots are so far ahead of everyone else. It's because 95% of the coaches in the league suck and there are only 7-12 serviceable NFL quarterbacks. If you list out all 32 teams with their quarterbacks and coaches I would challenge you to provide me with 20 names total.
It's sad that people can't actually admit when something is just plain better. I despise the Yankees and their long storied history of cheating but I would never say during those runs that they were not the best team.
Every single football team cheats. If you don't belive me, there is a source that cites material that doesn't come from the mouth of a student who couldn't make it in Boston and then went back home to daddy's ranch in Texas.
A better article would have focused on the real issue in the NFL and the true answer to why the Patriots are so far ahead of everyone else. It's because 95% of the coaches in the league suck and there are only 7-12 serviceable NFL quarterbacks. If you list out all 32 teams with their quarterbacks and coaches I would challenge you to provide me with 20 names total.
6
When the Yankees were winning all those championships everyone hated them.
Same story with the pats, a great team that just keeps winning. One more win today and they will cement their standing as greatest football team ever!
Same story with the pats, a great team that just keeps winning. One more win today and they will cement their standing as greatest football team ever!
5
Interesting, but why leave out all the the other cheating...by the Falcons (piping in artificial sound), Steelers (not disclosing injuries), Saints (bounties), and others (using 2 way communications on the sidelines, using illegal substances on gloves, etc)?? Maybe someone should do a study about why only some infractions are harped on and others get a pass. Jealousy at success, I guess. No one cares if losers cheat and if you're successful long term everyone is jealous and will find or make up any way to denigrate success.
10
Fans excuse the Patriots, for lying and cheating, for the same reasons that they forgive our "leaders." They want to be JUST LIKE THESE people. THAT, my friends, is what's wrong with our country. Let' not forget that old bill is a "friend" of trump, not that trump has any real friends. Birds of a feather flock together.
3
There are two "teams" here, Patriot fans and Patriot haters. The writer is clearly in the latter camp. That camp has been calling the Patriots cheaters for a decade now because video, video that no member of the Patriot organization ever viewded, was filmed in the first quarter of the first game of the season. Granted, they attempted to cheat. On the other hand the Atlanta falcons as an organization piped artificial crowd noise into their stadium for 3 years, an infraction that could actually change the outcome of games. No mention of that in this story. Nor was anything mentioned about the ideal gas law. Patriot fans sleep very well.
6
It's almost laughable to use the patriot fans as an example ....just look at Trump's loyal, steadfast supporters as his history of cheating, lying, abusing grows longer by the day, and yet like parents in denial of their childs obvious flaws, forgive all and point the finger at everyone else. No wonder Trump is so closely affilated with the Patriots leadership, birds of a feather flock together.
It's just sad so many of the hardworking players get dragged down with them.
It's just sad so many of the hardworking players get dragged down with them.
5
If you begin a game on a cold day with footballs at the bare minimum "legal" air pressure, they will fall below that legal limit during the first series.
And if the balls are deemed illegal, the rules say put them away and use the other team's, not embark on a witch hunt.
Deflategate was a sham, the Wells Report a work up for Goodell's overly aggressive prosecution.
And if the balls are deemed illegal, the rules say put them away and use the other team's, not embark on a witch hunt.
Deflategate was a sham, the Wells Report a work up for Goodell's overly aggressive prosecution.
6
At least a few researchers argue that temperature alone would not account for the drop. Pats are indeed an excellent team, but it's naive to think a quarterback thought of as royalty doesn't get his footballs exactly how he wants them.
http://www.popsci.com/football-physics-and-science-deflategate
http://www.popsci.com/football-physics-and-science-deflategate
1
Without this moral flexibility we could not have our current President. We would not enter so many wars. Lots of stuff would be just plain different. Who among us would so cherish the nation state?
2
Pats haters focus on the process rather than the details. In this column for example the claim is made that the Patriots ... Brady in particular... cheated in "deflate gate" because the NFL process led to his suspension. Patriots fans seem to focus on the evidence, or rather the complete lack of any. The only ball found to be underinflated was the one held by the Colts for 1/2 hour, and all the others fell in the inflation pressure range predicted by the ideal gas law.
Since the evidence in dgate was so insubstantial, people who are naturally inclined towards skepticism and against abuse of power view Roger Goodell as the villain in the piece, and Brady as the victim of an injustice promoted by Goodell because Goodell doesn't want to see his authority challenged. Hey, if I were paid at his rates, I'd protect my job too. ;)
Much of the rest of the country wants to believe the Pats "cheat" because they're tired of seeing the Patriots in January. Have to sympathise with them. Does anyone outside of NYC want to see the Yankees after September? Not much.
Since the evidence in dgate was so insubstantial, people who are naturally inclined towards skepticism and against abuse of power view Roger Goodell as the villain in the piece, and Brady as the victim of an injustice promoted by Goodell because Goodell doesn't want to see his authority challenged. Hey, if I were paid at his rates, I'd protect my job too. ;)
Much of the rest of the country wants to believe the Pats "cheat" because they're tired of seeing the Patriots in January. Have to sympathise with them. Does anyone outside of NYC want to see the Yankees after September? Not much.
4
The psychological test analogy is absurd. Patriot fans support the team because they know that the Patriots are better than the other teams, because they are Patriot fans, and because its our team.
2
Good...you can have them.
I am allergic to penicillin anyway...
I am allergic to penicillin anyway...
For starters, the Patriots won the 2015 Super Bowl, presumably well after the cheating they had done was curtailed. This is one of the many pieces of evidence that it's actually their superior on-field talent and coaching that explains their incredible success.
2
Actually the Patriots were ONCE caught cheating in the Spygate incident where they taped (legally) the opposition from an illegal position. As for Deflategate, the evidence is circumstantial and equivocal at best. While it is possible that the team deliberately lowered the air pressure in footballs, it is equally, if not more, likely that the action of gas under pressure in changing external conditions as defined by the Ideal Gas Law was the responsible party.
In stating that the Patriots have been "twice caught cheating" reflects the psychological bias of the writer, but after all what else could be expected of someone writing about spports for a paper in the home of the NY J-E-S-T.
In stating that the Patriots have been "twice caught cheating" reflects the psychological bias of the writer, but after all what else could be expected of someone writing about spports for a paper in the home of the NY J-E-S-T.
6
As a New Englander, it is difficult to be unbiased here. At the same time, the evidence of cheating has been weak and the punishment did not really fit the crime (4 games for under inflated balls - really?) Anyway, the Packers and the Vikings have also been caught manipulating ball pressure and it was no big deal. The Patriots draw more attention because they have been so good for so long.
3
I love the NY Times, but if it weren't the Pats, it would be the Sox or the Celtics, the Bruins or even the UConn ladies basketball team. This article is the usual Pats hating bovine feces. Brady's has a strong case, Goodell has proved nothing. Next time you see your favorite Yankees pitcher cover his mouth with his glove when he's talking to the other half of his battery, ask yourself why he's doing it, or why the Jets coach covers his mouth with the play card when he calls the next play into the huddle. It's because all professional sports franchises cheat to get an edge. The Seahawks are the biggest cheaters in football, but NY sportswriters don't seem to care about that. They are just jealous of anything Boston, never mentioning the years of store bought championships allowing the Yankees to cheat the system.
2
Character is what you do when (you think) nobody is watching.
2
I'm more concerned with why the NYT and liberals in general excuse the Clinton's cheating pasts (both). Find an answer to that and you'll answer your own question.
3
It's seems societal certainly.
Examples:
The Banks that hired the Ratings agencies(Moody's,etc.) to hire University Prof's on the White House Council of Economic advisors as contractors, that created the derivative Swaps that crushed the financial system in 2008.
Banks, Large corp behavior overseas, over and over.
Bribery and cheating as a business plan, only bad if you get caught.
Nice, huh.
Doping, spygate, is this really a surprise? The higher the title, the more 3 letters behind it, the bigger the con.
Examples:
The Banks that hired the Ratings agencies(Moody's,etc.) to hire University Prof's on the White House Council of Economic advisors as contractors, that created the derivative Swaps that crushed the financial system in 2008.
Banks, Large corp behavior overseas, over and over.
Bribery and cheating as a business plan, only bad if you get caught.
Nice, huh.
Doping, spygate, is this really a surprise? The higher the title, the more 3 letters behind it, the bigger the con.
Perspective, please. The NY Yankees are the most cheating franchise in sports history: A-Rod's steroids, A-Rod's glove-slap, Reggie Jackson's swivel-hips, Steinbrenner (and others) buying pennants, etc. etc.
I will root fervently for Brady until the day he retires. Then I will never forgive him for backing Trump. As a Michigan grad, Brady should know better. New Englanders certainly do.
I will root fervently for Brady until the day he retires. Then I will never forgive him for backing Trump. As a Michigan grad, Brady should know better. New Englanders certainly do.
4
What a silly and poorly researched story. Even a cursory look at the scandal that became "Spygate" reveals that the Patriots were fined for filming from a location that had been tagged as illegal in a memo from the NFL front office (not the official rulebook). The filming itself was never illegal, contrary to what DeStano says in this story, not just because all other teams were doing it, but because the official rules *allowed it,* and in fact still do. (To state it more simply, from Wikipedia: "Videotaping opposing coaches is not illegal in the NFL but there are designated areas allowed by the league to do such taping. The Patriots were videotaping the Jets' coaches from their own sideline, which is not allowed.")
"Deflategate," on the other hand, was clearly a mythical, made-up "violation" from the beginning. If it weren't, the NFL would release all the spot-check ball pressure (PSI) data it collected throughout the 2015 season. But that will never happen, because that data will contradict the "findings" of the infamous Wells report—the report upon which NFL commissioner Roger Goodell based all his absurd accusations and ridiculous grandstanding. You can label Patriots fans as aggrieved or paranoid, but an objective look at the evidence in Deflategate reveals it to be a sham. Sally Jenkins at the Washington Post knows this. Why doesn't Juliet Macur? I wonder.
"Deflategate," on the other hand, was clearly a mythical, made-up "violation" from the beginning. If it weren't, the NFL would release all the spot-check ball pressure (PSI) data it collected throughout the 2015 season. But that will never happen, because that data will contradict the "findings" of the infamous Wells report—the report upon which NFL commissioner Roger Goodell based all his absurd accusations and ridiculous grandstanding. You can label Patriots fans as aggrieved or paranoid, but an objective look at the evidence in Deflategate reveals it to be a sham. Sally Jenkins at the Washington Post knows this. Why doesn't Juliet Macur? I wonder.
7
I think that Ms. Macur fails to recognize the true angst of Pat's fans....which is that some non-Pat's fans attribute the success to cheating, which should be demonstrably false. For example, point me to evidence that deflategate helped win any games. One can rightfully argue that any cheater should be penalized. But if anyone is thinking that only the Pat's have cheated is pretty blind - please notice how every coach covers his mouth when speaking. Is this because they have bad breath? Or are they convinced that other teams are spying on them at every moment - which would seem to qualify as cheating in my mind. Ms. Macur's shout out to group think also very interesting to think about in the context of today's politics.....
Immediately made me think about the Trump followers and fake-news and alternative facts. Followers of Trump are part of a cult -- they can excuse any misbehavior.
1
The problem with the decision to suspend Brady came about not by strength of the evidence, there is none and has never been any actual evidence of him or the ball handlers committing the offense charged by the NFL, but by the NFLPA union that allowed the commissioner, Roger Goodell, complete control of any determination of violation and subsequent punishment. All appeals of his decision are determined by the commissioner himself, the one who issued the verdict. The counter evidence "the ideal gas law" presented by professors at MIT to school kids as their science project more than raised the doubt of proof of evidence of a conspiracy to deflate footballs. All the NFL evidence, at a unbelievable cost of 11 million dollars, was suspect. In a court of law, with an impartial set of jurists, the question of evidence provided by the NFL and the strength of the defendants counter arguments would not likely have come to the same finding as the commissioner rendered. The strength of support for Brady within Patriot's nation is that he was screwed by Goodell and treated unfairly.
3
Simply because every NFL team cheats and the NFL Commissioner and owners manipulate the rules and scheduling of games to manage outcomes. The New England Patriots have had the unfortunate experience of getting caught. Other teams get caught with under inflated balls and get a slap on the wrist which is quickly forgotten.
The Patriots are a winning team that has won for over 15 years and jealousy runs wild among the owners suites and the commissioner's office. Increasingly rigorous rules targeting the Patriots have failed to curtail the teams winning seasons.
I've been a New England Patriot fans going back to the 60's and Babe Parrili as quarterback. The millions of New England Patriot fans have been experienced Red Sox victories and losses and are a hardy stock with deep loyalties for their Patriots!
GO PATS - WIN THIS ONE for the fans!
The Patriots are a winning team that has won for over 15 years and jealousy runs wild among the owners suites and the commissioner's office. Increasingly rigorous rules targeting the Patriots have failed to curtail the teams winning seasons.
I've been a New England Patriot fans going back to the 60's and Babe Parrili as quarterback. The millions of New England Patriot fans have been experienced Red Sox victories and losses and are a hardy stock with deep loyalties for their Patriots!
GO PATS - WIN THIS ONE for the fans!
2
While these studies teach us a lot about why die hard fans believe what they believe, it doesn't explain why sports writers and cable announcers ignore this evidence?
Belichick is routinely being hailed as being the greatest coach ever, the most brilliant defensive mastermind of all time. If that's so, then why did he dispatch his staff to secretly film a Jet's pre-game practice? Couldn't a brilliant defensive mind figure out a game plan without cheating?
When players cheat the press comes down on them like a ton of bricks. They are vilified, castigated, suspended, fined, or even after a career forever marked with an asterisk. So where's the asterisk behind Belichick's name?
And Brady, for all his skill and accomplishments never adequately explained how or why out of the clear blue sky he decided to destroy a particular cell phone and any evidence it might have revealed?
The team took the hit for the first cheating scandal and the player took the suspension for the next one. Have there been others? We don't know, but we do know that coach Bilichick runs that program from top to bottom. He's praised for being a detail guy who sees everything and adjusts everything for the next game.
But when these cheating issues came up the man of detail says he saw nothing and knew nothing. To be fair, there's no proof that he did. But there a lot of players in baseball with that asterisk simply because of a smoking gun. Bilichick has earned his rings but also earned an asterisk*
Belichick is routinely being hailed as being the greatest coach ever, the most brilliant defensive mastermind of all time. If that's so, then why did he dispatch his staff to secretly film a Jet's pre-game practice? Couldn't a brilliant defensive mind figure out a game plan without cheating?
When players cheat the press comes down on them like a ton of bricks. They are vilified, castigated, suspended, fined, or even after a career forever marked with an asterisk. So where's the asterisk behind Belichick's name?
And Brady, for all his skill and accomplishments never adequately explained how or why out of the clear blue sky he decided to destroy a particular cell phone and any evidence it might have revealed?
The team took the hit for the first cheating scandal and the player took the suspension for the next one. Have there been others? We don't know, but we do know that coach Bilichick runs that program from top to bottom. He's praised for being a detail guy who sees everything and adjusts everything for the next game.
But when these cheating issues came up the man of detail says he saw nothing and knew nothing. To be fair, there's no proof that he did. But there a lot of players in baseball with that asterisk simply because of a smoking gun. Bilichick has earned his rings but also earned an asterisk*
i do not care for cheaters and liars even though they sometimes seemingly win. a team that has a history of cheating is owned and run by cheaters. the players are not to blame in most cases. they do what the bosses indicate they want them to do. we all get our just rewards in the end.
I used to be a Patriots fan.
Then they cheated.
Then I gave up on football.
Then they cheated.
Then I gave up on football.
2
Forget the sport of football for a minute. This demonstration of people's moral/ethical foundation, or should I say lack of moral/ethical foundation, is difficult to stomach.
Now onto football. The Patriots have been caught cheating. And the shame is they didn't need to cheat because they had the talent and the coaching to have the same success had they not cheated. That said I hope the Falcons win. It's hard to root for a dynasty and not the underdog unless the dynasty team is yours.
Now onto football. The Patriots have been caught cheating. And the shame is they didn't need to cheat because they had the talent and the coaching to have the same success had they not cheated. That said I hope the Falcons win. It's hard to root for a dynasty and not the underdog unless the dynasty team is yours.
Very interesting, especially if applied outside of sports, for example racial bigotry. If your "group" has developed a bias, then contrary facts fail to undermine the bias.
Which brings me back to sports and racial bigotry, and this year's super bowl. The Atlanta Falcons, a deep South team, might have fans who might have been racial bigots but being fans, they knew the stars of their team. This would include Julio Jone, who is black, from Alabama University. Would this soften their inherent bigotry? Was and is sports, collegiate and professional, a powerful force in reducing racial bigotry?
Which brings me back to sports and racial bigotry, and this year's super bowl. The Atlanta Falcons, a deep South team, might have fans who might have been racial bigots but being fans, they knew the stars of their team. This would include Julio Jone, who is black, from Alabama University. Would this soften their inherent bigotry? Was and is sports, collegiate and professional, a powerful force in reducing racial bigotry?
If I were a player, I would not want to win by cheating. I would want to win, because I am the best at what I do. Something to actually be proud about!
It seems in this new world disorder, of not only sports teams cheating, but politicians, CEO's, etc. That the theme is being proud at getting over on others!
Like one is so smart, or has some sort of privilege to be above the law. Whatever the case may be. Cheating, lying, stealing, or otherwise hurting others for personal gain. IS STILL THE WRONG PATH IN LIFE! And in this case, cheaters should be thrown out of the NFL, and restore the integrity of the game! To be a better example to our youth, who are being influenced by professional sports.
It seems in this new world disorder, of not only sports teams cheating, but politicians, CEO's, etc. That the theme is being proud at getting over on others!
Like one is so smart, or has some sort of privilege to be above the law. Whatever the case may be. Cheating, lying, stealing, or otherwise hurting others for personal gain. IS STILL THE WRONG PATH IN LIFE! And in this case, cheaters should be thrown out of the NFL, and restore the integrity of the game! To be a better example to our youth, who are being influenced by professional sports.
We're a country whose moral compass has busted, and we collectively believe that the ends justify the means. So, we'll celebrate you if you've climbed to the top of our cultural pyramid, without judgement...and forgive you the sins of outright cheating to excel in your field...but we'll also forgive you your infidelities, bullying, sexual harassment's, draft dodging, tax fraud, and a myriad of other personal transgressions. That's just who we've become as a nation.
1
The whole concept of an NFL organization "cheating" is mirthful. NFL teams are run by billionaires and played by millionaires within stadiums that are granted tax breaks of all kinds. The drama we see on TV is nothing compared to the massive daily dose of political and monetary welfare handed to each team. San Diegans were right to oppose giving more cash and perks to the Chargers and more rejection will follow. Being humble is not an NFL credo, and I think it will eventually cause the entire league to fall in on itself. Lower TV ratings are a sign the current greedy business model is not working.
1
I'm sure this plays well in J-E-T-S country, but the entire piece is fueled by the assumption that the Pats actually "cheat."
Sadly, this article confuses allegations and vendettas, from regular Joes to the top Roger, and doesn't make a case that the Pats are worse than other teams.
How about a piece that looks into their ability to read the rule book and know what they can legally get away with? Begin with showing how confusing Baltimore with legal formations was having the better coached team, not cheating.
Sadly, this article confuses allegations and vendettas, from regular Joes to the top Roger, and doesn't make a case that the Pats are worse than other teams.
How about a piece that looks into their ability to read the rule book and know what they can legally get away with? Begin with showing how confusing Baltimore with legal formations was having the better coached team, not cheating.
1
Why do fans excuse the Patriots' cheating past you ask? That's what society does. We hold our tribe blameless for all indiscretions while concurrently holding our opponents to highest ethical standards peppered with an exceeding amount of self righteousness. You need look no further than the front page of this newspaper to see the consequences of this hypocrisy.
4
To the author ‘The facts are right there. Why don’t you believe them?’ As to brady the facts are NOT all there. Even Goodell claimed he "thought" Bradt cheated but could show no proof connecting Brady to it. Originally the NFL thought the Pat's ball handlers did and made the Pats fire them. Kraft later asked the HFL to reinstate them which they did because Kraft threatened a lawsuit in their behalf. The ball handlers not being covered by the players union contract could not be punished under the union contract as Brady was for Goodel just thinking Tom knew. Goodel and the NFL knew they would most likely lose any law suit and possibly for a big sum so allowed the the Pats to rehire them.
6
Hope Cheater Brady has his stuff together today. Hope the ball is as inflated as his head!
3
hmmm....sounds a bit like our "game" of politics. Only the political games in Washington today put lives and well-being at risk. Any advice, Professor, on how we can all think like an outsider?
2
Just when I thought it was safe to read the NYT on a Sunday morning, here lies yet another "story" about the Patriots and their past discretions. On a similar note of a previous commenter, the deeper question is why does Roger Goodell consistently allows ANY team to cheat, season after season? Frankly, I'm drained from reading this same type story whenever we hit the playoffs and finally the Super Bowl, year after year after year. It's politics - football style. Class, character and integrity doesn't seem to play into the sport for many players, coaches or especially, the Commissioner. Bring on the commercials - that's what so many people tune in for anyway.
3
Pathetic. Time to let it go Patriots haters. The team really is that good, and it has nothing to do with cheating.
12
Now I understand how Trump supporters must excuse his un-American behavior. They must believe that Trump will somehow be of benefit to them. I guess they just can't comprehend that they are excusing Donald Trump. That's right - Donald Trump. I'm a Jet fan and it's easier for me to excuse the Pats!
3
Brady was disliked before he cheated. He's an entitled, smug crybaby who has everything a human could want and football is what's important to him. Shallow and douchy. We saw in November there are plenty of people who admire someone for all the wrong reasons.
5
I remember visiting family (Patriot-fans all) many years ago at a time when both Barry Bonds (of my SF Giants) and Bill Belichick were in the news for cheating. Back in California, my sport-fan friends were frothing at the mouth about the transgressions of the Patriots. Belichick should be banned from the game, they told me. Absolutely outrageous, they fumed. Nobody was particularly concerned about what Barry Bonds was up to. In New England, I heard only that "everyone does it [steals signals], what's the big deal?" But Barry? Lock him up and throw away the key. The ability to forgive your own team is seemingly limitless.
1
The patriots cheated once, spygate. Deflategate, never actually proven by NFL or the Wells Report, has been 100% debunked by elementary school physics. The NFL consultants "Exponent, who conducted experiments on ball pressure have also been proven to have used completely flawed and erroneous scientific methods. It's fact, No ball deflation occurred. Watch the you tube video of MIT mechanical engineering professor and NFL Colts fan prove this fact. Perhaps it is the same psychology that explains why most people ignore this fact, the group outside of Patriot Nation, including my favorite media outlet, The NY Times?
5
Brady's phone self destructs.
Every team has a ball boy with the nickname "deflator" who takes the balls in a locked bathroom for 20 minutes shortly after the balls are tested and before the game and who, after the investigation starts talks to Tom notsoTerrific for 45 minutes who has a ball boy's telephone number on his phone that gets recycled.
Where is MIT again? Geographically?
Who invented and perfected the pic play?
The player who intercepted the pass at the end of the half was told in advance that the balls had been tampered with. They knew from the regular season.
Every team has a ball boy with the nickname "deflator" who takes the balls in a locked bathroom for 20 minutes shortly after the balls are tested and before the game and who, after the investigation starts talks to Tom notsoTerrific for 45 minutes who has a ball boy's telephone number on his phone that gets recycled.
Where is MIT again? Geographically?
Who invented and perfected the pic play?
The player who intercepted the pass at the end of the half was told in advance that the balls had been tampered with. They knew from the regular season.
Most NE fans understand that the Inflategate was a power play by the league, the film incident was reflective of several teams doing the same thing, and the vast majority of NFL players know just how hard all teams hedge bets and bend rules to gain an advantage...it is the bitterness of non-Patriot fans and owners who refuse to see the bigger picture...to have been as successful as the Pats for the last 15-16 years requires more than any of the incidents in question....it requires a commitment that is hard to replicate. Any time a team dominates a sport, people grow tired or their success...it's natural, it's ok...it's life...and, let's not forget, it's only a game....enjoy the one being played today!
3
Of course Tom Brady and Donald Trump are friends... birds of a feather.
5
This article is an excellent example of how the media continues to repeat lies until the lies become, in many readers' minds, truth.
The article states the Patriots were "twice caught cheating by the N.F.L." That is not true. The writer obviously has failed to understand the first instance, known as Spygate, was a case where the Patriots were fined on the basis of the camera's placement, not that they were filming the other team in the first place. If the camera had been moved 15 feet back there would have been no violation. It takes an Orwell/1984 redefinition of words to call that "cheating."
Deflategate is an even more egregious example of a falsely constructed meme. Again, the writer is ignorant of the facts, and evidently too lazy to care to research them. The balls in that game were never proven to have been deflated beyond the extent to which they reacted to the laws of physics on a cold night. Is that so difficult to grasp"
Sure, all of this makes for a good story for those envious of the Patriots' success. But it's based on lies. Ms. Macur might as well write for Fox News. She should be ashamed.
The article states the Patriots were "twice caught cheating by the N.F.L." That is not true. The writer obviously has failed to understand the first instance, known as Spygate, was a case where the Patriots were fined on the basis of the camera's placement, not that they were filming the other team in the first place. If the camera had been moved 15 feet back there would have been no violation. It takes an Orwell/1984 redefinition of words to call that "cheating."
Deflategate is an even more egregious example of a falsely constructed meme. Again, the writer is ignorant of the facts, and evidently too lazy to care to research them. The balls in that game were never proven to have been deflated beyond the extent to which they reacted to the laws of physics on a cold night. Is that so difficult to grasp"
Sure, all of this makes for a good story for those envious of the Patriots' success. But it's based on lies. Ms. Macur might as well write for Fox News. She should be ashamed.
7
No shame in 'any press is good press.' She' just following 45 examples :-D
Easy answer to headline: Because they win. Period.
3
Ah the psychology of cheating- cute. How about the psychology of finding justification for why your team fails while the Patriots just keep winning? No real evaluation of the wins vs losses % prior to 07 vs after (5% better) or how Brady performance has altered pre/post deflated balls - it hasn't. People conveniently forget that the Wells report was done by the same people who concluded there was no issue around concussions. So tonight I'll sit and take in this special run of my team, boring my Eagles friends about genius of this coach and how he defies the odds by winning in a system designed for parity.
2
Why do U of Michigan fans ignore the huge $100's of thousands kickbacks to the 'Fab-5'? Why do Penn State fans somehow ignore Joe Paterno's 'look the other way' methods while child abuse was occurring in HIS football facilities? It's because fans = fanatics and some fanatics are know as suicide bombers. It's a mental illness.
2
Go back to the dawn of time where the first man\neanderthal raise his club against another man\neanderthal and you will begin to understand the idea of ''tribalism'' .
That is not to impune Patriot fans as knuckle dragging neanderthals that blindly support their team and players, but if the club fits ...
( smile )
That is not to impune Patriot fans as knuckle dragging neanderthals that blindly support their team and players, but if the club fits ...
( smile )
2
For me, this explained more about our recent election than it did about the Super Bowl.
3
You write that “Outside New England…. The Patriots are considered unrepentant cheaters, caught (and punished) more than once for their football crimes. Yet they keep winning, with a roster full of retreads and spare parts. Could they be skirting the rules even today, in new or undetected ways? Many football fans — nearly all of them outside New England — would not be surprised.”
I have experienced this many times. Many of my co-workers in the Washington-Baltimore corridor feel this way. They’re just being home-town fans. Two of my best friends, an Iggles fan and a Jets fan can be excused for feeling this way. They are, after all, knuckle-dragging mouth breathers.
But here’s the rub. Not once do you turn that study’s conclusion that “[people pick] the easy task for themselves, without even flipping the coin, wrongly believing that no one was watching” on the people who claim that the Patriots are cheaters and thus never, for all time, are any good at what they do. Maybe, despite the cheating in the taping, the Patriots players, coaches and management are just flat out good at what they do?
Yours is the same argument my politically conservative friends have for believing that the New York Times is an organization of distrustful, feckless liars simply because, if you examine all you do in all time you find examples of editors and journalists who… make bad judgements.
Makes no sense to me…
I have experienced this many times. Many of my co-workers in the Washington-Baltimore corridor feel this way. They’re just being home-town fans. Two of my best friends, an Iggles fan and a Jets fan can be excused for feeling this way. They are, after all, knuckle-dragging mouth breathers.
But here’s the rub. Not once do you turn that study’s conclusion that “[people pick] the easy task for themselves, without even flipping the coin, wrongly believing that no one was watching” on the people who claim that the Patriots are cheaters and thus never, for all time, are any good at what they do. Maybe, despite the cheating in the taping, the Patriots players, coaches and management are just flat out good at what they do?
Yours is the same argument my politically conservative friends have for believing that the New York Times is an organization of distrustful, feckless liars simply because, if you examine all you do in all time you find examples of editors and journalists who… make bad judgements.
Makes no sense to me…
1
Pats fans don't argue Spygate. Deflategate only counts if you can ignore the laws of science. Pat's fans don't - this writer does. It seems to me that this logic applies for those that hate the patriots - in order to not admit their teams are inferior, they perpetuate the falsehoods.
Congratulations to the Falcons on a great season, and go Pats - if the Pats are going to be hated anyway, let them be hated with one more Super Bowl victory on the books!
Congratulations to the Falcons on a great season, and go Pats - if the Pats are going to be hated anyway, let them be hated with one more Super Bowl victory on the books!
2
“It’s not about the true facts, or about how honest you believe a group is, or what the group’s past behavior is,” he said. “It doesn’t matter what sport it is, or what team it is, or even if it’s sports at all. Just being a part of a group, any group, is enough to excuse moral transgressions because in some way, you’re benefiting from it. Your moral compass shifts.”
Far be it from me to claim to be any kind of authority on human nature, but don't these kinds of articles often times fall on deaf ears? So many people love football, they love being entertained and they love the excitement. The shifting moral compass is so eggheadish to discuss much less explore on Super Bowl Sunday. The two best teams are playing today. I humbly believe most people will be focusing on the game. PERIOD. The only shifting my moral compass will be doing will be when I keep eating too much before, during and after the Super Bowl, thinking I should stop, but I won't.
1
Brady, Belichick and many of the other NE organizational grown ups are avid trump supporters. That alone is reason for me to root against them. That they willingly cross the line while looking for any competitive edge is not surprising.
I do not support bullying, raping mother nature, delegitimizing the media, creation of alternate facts, or alienating and victimizing whole groups of people.
Therefore, I cannot support others who do. Yes, its just a game, but its also big business, and there are deeper concerns that will last long after the final play. Win or lose, my condolences to those NE players who's political opinions run counter to their management's, who probably must remain quiet to keep the peace.
I do not support bullying, raping mother nature, delegitimizing the media, creation of alternate facts, or alienating and victimizing whole groups of people.
Therefore, I cannot support others who do. Yes, its just a game, but its also big business, and there are deeper concerns that will last long after the final play. Win or lose, my condolences to those NE players who's political opinions run counter to their management's, who probably must remain quiet to keep the peace.
1
I LOVE sport for its rules and its clear outcomes and thus, cheating once was anathema to me. Over a lifetime as a fan (and an American), I have realized that we are a nation of rascals who often by sheer will can seize and hold the high ground by cheating. Baseball taught me this as its history is full of scamps who altered balls, bats, blood chemistry and even the physics of stadia to prosper. At first, playing "Gotcha!" with the Patriots seemed an easy way to define my honor through their lack thereof. The more I learned how the Patriots approach rules and competition. the more their will seemed to have qualities of overt larceny I could place amidst the bigger picture of human character. Cheaters exist and they prosper. In business, sport and in our personal lives we sometimes push the envelope of morality in order to increase our chances at success. The Patriots are an exceptional organization amidst the orchestrated parity of their sport and I admire their will if not always their larcenous culture. I think that one can own the Patriots' morality in context of the bigger picture of human frailty just as one admires Mother Theresa or Ghandi for their aspirational humanity. I found my way to give the Patriots a pass, partially because I better know existence and the human condition. Also, my Giants wrecked their perfect season and this has gifted me clarity, compassion and glee.
1
What cheating are talking about ? Deflategate was NFL politics, that ignored the simple science cold has on air pressure ( check your car tires). The NFL put out bogus info and then morphed the whole thing into cell phones. The company that did the initial analysis also defended big tobacco in second hand smoke claims( cheating my xxxx).
2
All of it sounds like a conspiracy till you realize there are 12 professionals well paid and full of pride and are going to do everything they can.
And here is the thing, there is more onfield cheating by both sides that all players must over come in order to excel. Off field spying only works if the other team runs those, and only helps if a player can remember every detail in heat of battle.
Next time you write about a sport you never played professionally, don't. Its readily apparent this is a man bashing article at best.
.
And here is the thing, there is more onfield cheating by both sides that all players must over come in order to excel. Off field spying only works if the other team runs those, and only helps if a player can remember every detail in heat of battle.
Next time you write about a sport you never played professionally, don't. Its readily apparent this is a man bashing article at best.
.
The point is..they tried. When you try to take advantage..you are a cheater. Period. You say there is cheating on both sides? And you still watch right? The author is correct.
I can't believe the Times is resurrecting all of this old "news", flimsy evidence (or none)against the Patriots, whose main claim to hatred is that they really are a superior team.........
I thought you were better than that!
I thought you were better than that!
2
Along with developing tunnel vision to protect an iconic team that a home group of fans identify with, there may be an underlying belief that they all do it [whatever they can get away with], the Pats just do it better?
There have been other studies reported that indicate that hardcore fans really feel elated or devastated personally by their team's performance. So - an attack on the team or sign of weakness is felt like a blow to one's own ego.
Personally, as a NE fan -- not extreme - it bothered me much more to see the Pats owner, head coach and aging star endorse Trump. That created a little too much cognitive dissonance to deny!
There have been other studies reported that indicate that hardcore fans really feel elated or devastated personally by their team's performance. So - an attack on the team or sign of weakness is felt like a blow to one's own ego.
Personally, as a NE fan -- not extreme - it bothered me much more to see the Pats owner, head coach and aging star endorse Trump. That created a little too much cognitive dissonance to deny!
6
I am not much a football fan whatever the club, but for once I wish very much that prominent members of a club, who so publicly embraced cheater-lier-clown-egomaniac in chief will loose, and badly !
8
Several people have cast doubt on the evidence of cheating by basically saying, "But the Patriots are so talented . . . why would players like that feel the need to cheat? But there are numerous examples in sports of highly talented athletes seeking an extra advantage.
Consider former baseball star Barry Bonds. Or look at Gaylord Perry, a pitcher who frequently threw spitballs (illegal). Perry is in the Hall of Fame and he won at least 20 games in five seasons. It's safe to assume his talent was the main reason why, but we shouldn't excuse the fact that he sometimes got guys out by throwing an illegal pitch. So it shouldn't shock us that an excellent athlete or team would try to break the rules every now and then.
Consider former baseball star Barry Bonds. Or look at Gaylord Perry, a pitcher who frequently threw spitballs (illegal). Perry is in the Hall of Fame and he won at least 20 games in five seasons. It's safe to assume his talent was the main reason why, but we shouldn't excuse the fact that he sometimes got guys out by throwing an illegal pitch. So it shouldn't shock us that an excellent athlete or team would try to break the rules every now and then.
1
I'd like to comment but I'm still wondering why the game is called football.
7
I couldn't agree more.
The NFL is a business that fans might take a little too seriously. The Patriots have been caught cheating and the Patriots have been punished. Throughout our society, cheating occurs everywhere. Look at Wall Street where cheating that occurs actually has serious consequences that negatively impact peoples lives. In sports cheating occurs everywhere at all levels. From FIFA to the Tour de France to the Olympics. In sports we can still enjoy watching outstanding athletes perform feats that most of us have know chance of ever doing. Watching the Patriots, you see players that are very well coached and perform their assignments which is the most significant reason they are successful. With that said, there is something to the fact that fans will tolerate almost anything by their team in any sport to see them win. It's not just New England. It is fun. Go PATS!
9
The Patriots don't just have a cheating past; they have a culture of cheating. I've never really excused that and still don't.
5
I'm sure that Patriots Nation really cares about your opinion. But it is yours, so live with it. People said the same thing about Red Auerbach when the Celtics of the 60s, 70s and even 80s were winning NBA titles.
It's just envy.
It would have been interesting if the author of this article interviewed people like yourself when your time won a title in any sport where there was any taint or question. Should the Marlins fire Barry Bonds because he took steroids? Is his advice as a batting coach questionable? Is he telling his protégées to cork their bats? It does get silly, doesn't it?
Should the Red Sox give back their titles recently because Manny Ramirez took PEDS? How about Roger Clemens after he left the Red Sox? Punish the Yankees? And what of the HOF? A separate wing for drug takers?
It's just envy.
It would have been interesting if the author of this article interviewed people like yourself when your time won a title in any sport where there was any taint or question. Should the Marlins fire Barry Bonds because he took steroids? Is his advice as a batting coach questionable? Is he telling his protégées to cork their bats? It does get silly, doesn't it?
Should the Red Sox give back their titles recently because Manny Ramirez took PEDS? How about Roger Clemens after he left the Red Sox? Punish the Yankees? And what of the HOF? A separate wing for drug takers?
They are one of the least penalized teams year after year.
You would have a case if you could actually provide a list of transgressions.
But I've looked, so I know you can't.
You would have a case if you could actually provide a list of transgressions.
But I've looked, so I know you can't.
1
Objectively speaking, the evidence about the air pressure in the footballs was weak, and Brady was "convicted' with what was far from a fair proceding. Combine those facts with the fierce team loyalty of other fans, and their non stop trolling of the team, and you have convicted a man under a less than equitable system ( NFL code) .
18
Because the cheating was inconsequential both times. Regarding the ball deflation, the Wells report was flawed but, most important, every QB likes to customize his own ball. Aaron Rodgers, for example, likes an overinflated ball. The deflated balls also had no effect on the outcome of the game. That whole controversy was manufactured by the Colts and Ravens owners who have continually been humiliated by the Patriots. It didn't help that Brady told the media after a playoff game with the Ravens that Harbaugh should read the rulebook about offensive formations. Taping signals was also a lot to-do about nothing. They taped them from an undesignated spot. Big deal. Every team tries to steal signals. Why do you think a baseball pitcher puts his glove over his mouth when the catcher comes to the mound? The cheating charge is for losers.
52
We love the Pats because of their competitive spirit, their loyalty to their fans, and their commitment to New England, down to the last man. The only other team I've seen with this type of fan/team loyalty is the Packers. As for Brady, how many other quarterbacks have taken pay cuts to benefit their team. It's unheard of. Has this ever happened with a New York team? It's confuses me why people outside of New England are so quick to judge 'guilty' on Deflategate in spite of so much contradictory evidence. Now that would be an interesting psychological study.
40
Would have loved to have seen Pats versus Packers, just for the nostalgia factor.
Maybe part of the reason Pat fans are so defensive is the hypocrisy. The Falcons were guilty of pumping fake crowd noise into their stadium, yet that story barely had legs. Why? Because they stunk. If the Pats had done that it would be NoiseGate - the Story of the Year, and for several years after. Why? Because the Pats are great.
78
This article has some gross inaccuracies. I think most Pats fans acknowledge Spygate was a violation of the rules. The question for us fans, however, is whether or not Goodell acted evenhandedly in his punishment. Why, for instance, did the Patriots receive such a harsh punishment while Atlanta received a slap on the wrist for piping in artificial crowd noise? As other instances have shown (Ray Rice, Bountygate, Peyton's HGH use), Goodell can be extremely arbitrary in enforcing league rules. What is truly bothersome about this article, though, is that it ignores the scientific consensus that there was no actual wrongdoing in Deflategate, neglects to mention the multiple times throughout the investigation that the NFL was caught in a lie, and doesn't call into question the alternative facts on which Goodell based his case. Maybe next time you write a thinkpiece like this, you also include some actual journalism.
82
In his Northeastern University page regarding the Patriots, DeSterno states, "First let me state that I haven't reviewed all the evidence...with regard to (sic) Spygate or Deflategate..." So this Scarsdale, New York native then attempts to innocently propose a theory as to "Why Do Fans Excuse the Patriots' Cheating Past?" Without investigating he PRESUMES the Patriots cheated? Why would anyone, never mind a purported 'expert' in psychology, attempt to address such an issue? How much time and money was wasted on this theory? And then people wonder why the social sciences are treated the way they are in academia. Go away, David DeSterno. Just go away.
17
People who want to maintain personal ethical and moral standards should learn to apply the "outsider test" when it comes to their dearly held beliefs, whether religious, political or, as in this piece, allegiance to a sports, or anything else.
To do so, they must try to see their beliefs as someone who does not share them. Thus, a religious believer in faith X, who finds the myths, rules and proposition of faith Y, absurd, should turn the table and examine his own beliefs with the same critical eye.
Patriots fans would ask themselves, for example, how they would feel if the Falcons had been accused of "Deflategate."
It's not always easy to do. But it's an honest and ethical practice.
To do so, they must try to see their beliefs as someone who does not share them. Thus, a religious believer in faith X, who finds the myths, rules and proposition of faith Y, absurd, should turn the table and examine his own beliefs with the same critical eye.
Patriots fans would ask themselves, for example, how they would feel if the Falcons had been accused of "Deflategate."
It's not always easy to do. But it's an honest and ethical practice.
3
It's a fine rule for these times, but I'm not sure it's necessary to do the religious faith thought experiment. It can be just as simple as asking yourself, "How would I feel if my side did the same thing"?
Spygate was cheating and the Patriots are apparently still paying the price. Deflategate was a farce created by teams and certain owners that are tired of losing to the Patriots (even though many of them also prepare the footballs to one end of the allowed range as the Patriots did). Goodell went along because who wouldn't want a $40M/year salary? If we are serious about NFL issues, let's investigate owners and the league for what they knew and when they knew it regarding concussions.
37
The Falcons were caught cheating by the league, and punished, too. More recently than the Patriots. Where is this in the article?
17
There is no gray area with honor, integrity and ethics. You either have it or you don't and any debate just vitiates any rationale on it. One has to internalize and accept the above standards to their own satisfaction which may not pass the sniff test above.
1
As a Patriot season ticket holder for 25 years I personally will NEVER excuse or forgive Bill Belichick for Spygate. I have often wondered what his father Steve would have said. He had been a long time Naval Academy coach but had passed away by the time BB ignored the league's reminder. Deflategate is another matter entirely. Between the erroneous ESPN report and the flawed CBA there was no place to turn for truth in reporting except our Boston media, and even some of them waffled. If other fans feel better believing we only win because we cheat that is their right. I just know it is not true. Remember, people hate the Yankees simply because they win, nothing more.
10
I would like to edit part of your last sentence. "people hated the Yankees simply because they won." You probably agree that is much harder these days to hate them. Everything else you wrote is spot on!
If you like sports, play them. Why do you care which team of millionairs wins? They arent even from your town. Bread and circuses. Seesh, no wonder Trump won.
5
Dear J, When I was in high school and college I DID play field hockey, basketball and lacrosse. Now that I am 69 I swim and walk six days a week............I feel sorry for people like you who aren't fans of any team, you have missed alot of bonding with other fans, joy of victory, etc. Oh, by the way, I did not vote for that orange faced buffoon.
"Why do fans excuse the Patriot's cheating past?" Give me a break. Why do they excuse the Falcon's cheating past? "Have you stopped beating your wife yet?"
Because deflategate was nonsense. If the league suspected a problem they should have stopped it just like they do in baseball, have the officials in charge of all the balls. Allowing teams to have their own special balls is admitting that there can be differences and asking teams to maximize those differences. The way it was handled was a trap and a disgrace to the NFL, not the Patriots.
Anyone remember the scientific evidence from MIT explaining that there was no evidence there was any infraction?
How can people claim suspending arguing the game's arguably greatest active player for 4 games at age 39 is not a severe punishment. Not to mention paying a $1Million fine.
Come on, Kellyanne, let's deal in real facts.
Because deflategate was nonsense. If the league suspected a problem they should have stopped it just like they do in baseball, have the officials in charge of all the balls. Allowing teams to have their own special balls is admitting that there can be differences and asking teams to maximize those differences. The way it was handled was a trap and a disgrace to the NFL, not the Patriots.
Anyone remember the scientific evidence from MIT explaining that there was no evidence there was any infraction?
How can people claim suspending arguing the game's arguably greatest active player for 4 games at age 39 is not a severe punishment. Not to mention paying a $1Million fine.
Come on, Kellyanne, let's deal in real facts.
20
GO New England!
We excuse it because it wasn't defined as a suspension offense at the time he did it. It's not at all clear to me that the degree of inflation of a ball was ever viewed as such a big deal until this happened. Now it's different because everyone is on notice.
5
SO many points to mention: from Joe Montana saying (roughly) 'if you are not cheating, you are not competing;' to the loyalty of political supporters that either overlooks transgressions of the one supported or permits false equivalencies punishing the other; and the many examples of winning teams gaining an edge in the eyes of on-the-field officiating, e.g. Derek Jeter's infamously theatrical and successful double play phantom swipes at second base, oft called an out; to the ridiculously transparent 'Hatetriot' vibe of the author.
I wanted to email Ms. Macur or tweet out something to her but thought better of it - why validate what amounts to a slight hack piece rather than a piece of integrity? Why not 'Why Do Fans Excuse *Cheating?' Why single out the Patriots on Super Bowl Sunday rather than tribal support from any team, following?
Ms. Macur is either a Ravens, Giants or Jets fan - or jaded Skins fan or is merely propelled by an objective to garner paper-in-hand readers, online clicks and reactions like this one (in which case I guess her hatchet job is a success) based on subjective transparent sentiments against one team. Sad !
I wanted to email Ms. Macur or tweet out something to her but thought better of it - why validate what amounts to a slight hack piece rather than a piece of integrity? Why not 'Why Do Fans Excuse *Cheating?' Why single out the Patriots on Super Bowl Sunday rather than tribal support from any team, following?
Ms. Macur is either a Ravens, Giants or Jets fan - or jaded Skins fan or is merely propelled by an objective to garner paper-in-hand readers, online clicks and reactions like this one (in which case I guess her hatchet job is a success) based on subjective transparent sentiments against one team. Sad !
10
Sigh - Problem with this article is the assumption that everyone "knows" that Brady "cheated" and that New England fans are engaging in a bit of "nudge nudge wink wink" as they used to say on Monty Python.
An objective look at the facts shows that there was never any good evidence that Brady was involved in anything. In the end, Goodell insisted in suspending Brady not for the alleged cheating but because Brady destroyed his cell phone, a cell phone from which all the text messages had already been given to the NFL and from which there was never any smoking gun. This was all about Goodell throwing his weight around.
So yes, spare us Pats fans the psychobabble. The Pats have been winning because they play the game well. Pats fans recognize that.
An objective look at the facts shows that there was never any good evidence that Brady was involved in anything. In the end, Goodell insisted in suspending Brady not for the alleged cheating but because Brady destroyed his cell phone, a cell phone from which all the text messages had already been given to the NFL and from which there was never any smoking gun. This was all about Goodell throwing his weight around.
So yes, spare us Pats fans the psychobabble. The Pats have been winning because they play the game well. Pats fans recognize that.
22
Oh my goodness, an article praising the virtues of soft science over hard science! I can't dispute the premise that group affiliation leads to moral leniency for members of that group. But that's not what the Deflategate brouhaha is about (and this article would not exist today without that brouhaha.) The reason that certain Patriots fans (and non-Patriots fans) are besides themselves is that the science is completely clear. A ball inflated to a certain pressure at room temperature will lose pressure as it cools. The extent to which that was seen in the Patriots balls is predicted by environmental factors assuming they were inflated to 12.5 PSI before the game.
You might instead want to ask the question, why is it that smart people who believe that the Patriots cheated continue to believe this despite the scientific explanation for the change in pressure. There again, moral leniency is not in the picture. The simple explanation is that a general mistrust of science and rational argument is present throughout much of our society, especially when it runs afoul of our own inclinations or interests. Whether or not this has always been there or has become more acute recently is up for debate. Ironically, our politics would suggest that this has grown as an issue in the last few years or perhaps beyond. Perhaps the author might be better served exploring this area of investigation.
You might instead want to ask the question, why is it that smart people who believe that the Patriots cheated continue to believe this despite the scientific explanation for the change in pressure. There again, moral leniency is not in the picture. The simple explanation is that a general mistrust of science and rational argument is present throughout much of our society, especially when it runs afoul of our own inclinations or interests. Whether or not this has always been there or has become more acute recently is up for debate. Ironically, our politics would suggest that this has grown as an issue in the last few years or perhaps beyond. Perhaps the author might be better served exploring this area of investigation.
22
Patriots fans who excuse their cheating tell us a lot about the America that elected Trump president, don't they? What a shock that Kraft, Belichick, and Brady are all thick as thieves (I use the term advisedly) with our oligarch in chief! Patriots fans has the same completely "what's in it for me" "principles" as these Patriots jerks and our esteemed leader, but so does nearly half the electorate which voted for Trump and didn't take him "literally," because it didn't matter precisely what he would do, as long as he would find some way to "make the deal" the mob behind him wants Deflating game balls and the rest were simply part of the same mentality of win by any means necessary, and let the losers worry about the "ethics" of it all. America has more and more become all about "winning," as the only Wall St.-like goal there is, and less and less about the values of "winners" like Washington and Lincoln and FDR who actually believed in moral principles even higher than mere "winning" as an end in itself.
All one needs to know here is Fred's from Baltimore!
2
Patriots fans who excuse their cheating tell us a lot ...
You don't have a clue, if you believe that the Patriot's extended streak of excellence has been maintained through cheating.
It will be rewarding to watch President Trump's congratulatory phone call to Robert Kraft and the Patriots.
You don't have a clue, if you believe that the Patriot's extended streak of excellence has been maintained through cheating.
It will be rewarding to watch President Trump's congratulatory phone call to Robert Kraft and the Patriots.
Interestingly enough, this is a case of "alternative facts". It's ridiculous how this can be published given the facts available about why footballs deflate - the ideal gas law. Many universities and scientists have proved beyond a shadow of a doubt why footballs lose air. A better psychology themed story would be trying to understand why masses of people continue to believe false facts. Period. Full stop.
10
Civilization is sadly still so tribal. We seem to have an overwhelming need to belong to something, (religion, political party, race, state, sports team, left handers......ad infinitum). While this behavior may have been a survival mechanism defending against outsiders in the distant past, today because we belong to so many different groups at once it feels like we're in a constant state of war. When you don't need the intelligence to independently judge (or even see) the facts, it becomes a game anyone can play.
2
I dunno, why does a clueless sports writer bring it up? We did not forgive them, we aren't sure the accusations really stick, and we believe every team and every participant in every professional sport looks for every edge to win. Maybe what we really like is a track record of excellence, a true embellishment of "team sports" no stupid celebrations and dancing even when your down 30 points. No room for clowns like Odell Beckit jr. no poor losers like Cam Newton. So how's that for a reason to like teams like the Patriots and Packers.
3
I cannot evaluate the psychological study from the data given in the article, but the claim that "lying is human nature" is simply false, though often used when we don't know what else to say. Human nature, what defines us as humans, is far more elusive than this, and a very complicated concept. It is not determined by empirical studies, tests, experiments, etc., but through complex philosophical analyses. The article is simply an example of common reductive thinking that we all practice at times because we lack the time or the inclination to think deeply.
2
What undermines the argument in this article is the stated certainty that Brady, and by extension the Patriots, actually cheated. In fact the NFL and Godell prevailed not because they were proven right (in fact on the deflated balls science suggests otherwise) but on the narrow point of law that the collective bargaining agreement allowed the commissioner to make a judgement regardless of the evidence. Kind of like working with a set of alternative facts. There is even a lack of consensus on the "spy-gate" issue with regards to Belicheck's use of illegal video.
While the author is undoubtably correct in quoting research that suggests we are more likely to tolerate miscreant behavior from people we deem to be 'on our side' (witness the comfort level of Trump supporters with outright and provable prevarication) the presumption (and click bait) of this article is somewhat fraudulent. Every fan base supports its team but nothing suggests that Patriot fans support their team in full knowledge of their teams (alleged) cheating. The article skirts the truth in an attempt to make the author's research conflate with a pretty thin premise.
And I am a Packer fan.
While the author is undoubtably correct in quoting research that suggests we are more likely to tolerate miscreant behavior from people we deem to be 'on our side' (witness the comfort level of Trump supporters with outright and provable prevarication) the presumption (and click bait) of this article is somewhat fraudulent. Every fan base supports its team but nothing suggests that Patriot fans support their team in full knowledge of their teams (alleged) cheating. The article skirts the truth in an attempt to make the author's research conflate with a pretty thin premise.
And I am a Packer fan.
5
This is the worst sort of academic pseudo-science masquerading as moral authority. When did professors of psychology become "expert on ... hypocrisy and moral judgment"? Prof. DeSteno seems oblivious of the fact that his "experiments" do not prove anything he claims because they are subject to uncontrolled, multiple interpretations. That is the problem with academic psychology. It fails to be a science like physics, so now it wants to be a moral authority.
Not all Patriots fans are in denial. The infractions they are accused of simply do not rise to the level of "cheating". That word is just a provocation, unfit to print. Cheating implies taking advantagge and no one has ever shown that the Pats got any advantage from any of their alleged infractions. Brady prefers a softer football, others prefer it otherwise. That is a preference, not an advantage. If it is not an advantage, it isn't cheating.
Not all Patriots fans are in denial. The infractions they are accused of simply do not rise to the level of "cheating". That word is just a provocation, unfit to print. Cheating implies taking advantagge and no one has ever shown that the Pats got any advantage from any of their alleged infractions. Brady prefers a softer football, others prefer it otherwise. That is a preference, not an advantage. If it is not an advantage, it isn't cheating.
1
Sad in a way that so many commenters who are Patriots fans spend time justifying and/or denying the team's misbehavior, completely missing the point of the article, which was to use fan group reactions as an illustration of a basic human instinct we all have due to evolutionary experience, and how it leads us to bad outcomes. Groupthink doesn't much matter in sports -- it does matter in its effect on how we manage to govern ourselves, as history, say of the 20th century, clearly shows.
2
Not only do I remember every cheat that The Patriots were reported for, but I have always hated the Patriots ever since their coach said women reporters do not belong in the locker room.
I am one of the few Bostonians who doesn't watch or follow the Patriots, and certainly will not be watching the Superbowl. First, professional football and baseball, along with other sports, are no longer simply a game to be played and enjoyed. They have all become giant corporations: all about money. Winning is everything, for winning is where the god of gold rules. Second, even if I were a Patriots fan, I could not idolize celebrities like Brady, Belichick et all, who are friends and supporters of Trump. Third, I cannot support cheating in any form. My husband and I will spend this afternoon listening to music, reading, and enjoying pleasant conversation with a couple of our friends.
Human nature is universal and football teams and fans are made up of Homo sapiens. The Patriots were fined for filming opposing coaches, after the practice was banned by the league. Angry and jealous fans continue to cling to this stale story line. Why aren't fans bored with this tired and old narrative. Because the media clings to the same narrative. Ditto for sports talk radio. The Patriots are cheaters, period, case closed. A narrative easy to digest. It nicely explains the reality that the Pats keep winning. I have been reading psychology literature for 40 years.....the weakest is in the area of emotions. For insight on human emotions we need to turn to novelists and poets, not professors! Group behavior research is more helpful in the issue of Patriots versus their detractors: Zimbardo, Asch, Moscovici, Janis etc. Also look to cognitive heuristics, for example discounting. When a Ph.D. physicist explains deflated footballs by the laws of nature, fans and pundits alike scoff. Why? The explanation does not fit the stale narrative. The explanation is simply discounted. The Patriots are cheaters. They must be, they keep winning. The Pats coach did wrong and was punished. That was a long time ago. But long live the narrative! Perhaps when the Pats begin to lose, the narrative will lose traction. The Patriots were 4 and 12......they are no longer cheaters. Stay healthy Tom!
1
An interesting article nicely introducing group-based moral blindness. But the tone assuming Brady's guilt is not warranted (and no, I only occasionally root for the team - consider me an independent). The same moral adaptability highlighted in the psychological experiments can explain the howling of the anti-Brady mob - 31 of 32 NFL teams (and hence fans) are not Boston. The Deflategate study had many flaws, not least the secrecy and unscientific judgments, the failure to openly seek out and resolve contrary explanations. This is why we don't normally convict citizens based on the standard of "more probable than not", hardly more than a game coin flip.
Of course we all know that this article is really written about Trump supporters.
Of course we all know that this article is really written about Trump supporters.
17
You could easily flip this question and ask why the fans of lesser teams are so eager to accept flimsy evidence of cheating thrown at the Patriots. Perhaps they're looking for the reason why the Patriots beat their teams year after year and they can't accept the notion that the Patriots are simply better. It's far easier to call the Patriots cheaters than it is to hold your own team accountable for their failures.
92
They punish possession of paraphernalia because they might not be able to prove you used it to shoot up but common sense tells you there is no other reason to possess it.
The rule the Patriots violated as to where to cameras could and could not be located was created just that year and for exactly that reason and they were thusly and rightly punished.
Some think it's not cheating if you don't get caught. IT's not a penalty if they don't call it. If you get caught cheating and punished for cheating guess what it is: cheating.
If your testimony at your hearing is unbelievable then don't be surprised if they don't believe you.
The rule the Patriots violated as to where to cameras could and could not be located was created just that year and for exactly that reason and they were thusly and rightly punished.
Some think it's not cheating if you don't get caught. IT's not a penalty if they don't call it. If you get caught cheating and punished for cheating guess what it is: cheating.
If your testimony at your hearing is unbelievable then don't be surprised if they don't believe you.
All human being make mistakes, in sport and business it is expected to work hard and do anything possible to win. The Patriots are not the only team to ever film a game. The Patriots are always under the microscope. Other teams cheat in so many ways to win so stop with the finger wagging! They beat their wives, their children, do drugs ro get an edge, are suspended and it's all forgotten a day later. For every Patriot fan, that is absolutely hypocritical and comical that we IGNORE IT. Don't lose sight of the records broken by Tom Brady, the plays orchestrated by Bil Belichick, the bones broken by Gronk and all of the hard working players under Kraft that have had the honor of working for such a well prestigious organization. Every article like this, focusing on only 5% of what the Patriots have accomplished, this only clarifies to Patriot fans that people will never stop envying a team that WINS...... a lot. That's human nature and its to be expected. So there's a Patriot fan's point of view, in response to a non Patriot article. Give Tom Brady respect for his hard work and records as the greatest QB of all time and enough with minimizing the teams efforts. How many penalty flags get thrown throughout the season? How many calls are overlooked by the "league"? Write an article about the whole team history and every aspect of the game, not a biased one. Where are YOUR ethics? (Red Flag Thrown!). -E.W
13
Alternative Facts on this article's title: "False Equivalencies." I like reading comments that support my mostly objective sanity and (debatable:) intelligence. Thanks for this one !
No mention of when Atlanta was found guilty of piping in fake crowd noise while tho opposing team is on offense.
26
When we peel away the layers of our "civilized selves," we're highly evolved tribal mammals. Given that, it would be surprising if most fans of a team didn't turn a blind eye when their team (tribe) cheats. With that, the best thing about today's game for me is that it marks the end of the football season, a.k.a., the long period of high holy days for the American religion. Call me a party pooper, but I don't like the relentless hype and attention given to this mediocre sport. For several months, I go through the channels on the weekend and my options are football, football or football. Then I try tuning in for a moment and there's the constant roar from the crowd, the ball that gets thrown 5 yards, then the bigger roar, and then very large men in armor jumping on and running into each other. Once the last expression of this ritual is over tonight, we'll be that much closer to baseball season, a truly great American sport.
1
Cheating goes on in every NFL football game.
When an offensive lineman holds a defender, that lineman is cheating. When a defensive back grabs a receiver trying to catch a ball, he is cheating. Many times the cheater is caught and a penalty measured in yards and/or downs is assessed. But sometimes the cheater is not caught. They got away with cheating. At the NFL level a highly paid lineman knows the mechanics of blocking, legally, in and out. When they commit a holding penalty they are knowingly cheating. Cheating occurs frequently in any NFL game. It's simply that the media, fans, etc., don't refer to it by name as cheating, when in fact it is. They call it a "penalty." Well the player was penalized for CHEATING.
There is no difference between holding, pass interference, etc., and under-inflating a football. ALL are forms of cheating, and it's part and parcel of the game.
When an offensive lineman holds a defender, that lineman is cheating. When a defensive back grabs a receiver trying to catch a ball, he is cheating. Many times the cheater is caught and a penalty measured in yards and/or downs is assessed. But sometimes the cheater is not caught. They got away with cheating. At the NFL level a highly paid lineman knows the mechanics of blocking, legally, in and out. When they commit a holding penalty they are knowingly cheating. Cheating occurs frequently in any NFL game. It's simply that the media, fans, etc., don't refer to it by name as cheating, when in fact it is. They call it a "penalty." Well the player was penalized for CHEATING.
There is no difference between holding, pass interference, etc., and under-inflating a football. ALL are forms of cheating, and it's part and parcel of the game.
5
I've been saying this for years, but no one seems to care.
I'm with Bill Maher on this Superbowl. I don't really care about the Falcons but I refuse to back the Patriots when the owner, the coach and the quarterback are all Trump supporters. Go Atlanta! Stop Brady from getting his fifth ring!!
4
Daydreamer,
Believe me, this Pats fan is sick to his stomach about Brady and BB supporting Trump. But Kraft is actually a democrat, who throws a good deal of his money behind progressive causes. Just sayin...
Believe me, this Pats fan is sick to his stomach about Brady and BB supporting Trump. But Kraft is actually a democrat, who throws a good deal of his money behind progressive causes. Just sayin...
4
Or it could just be that we here in Massachusetts do not take rules seriously.
Remember we told King George where to go when he got ham handed with rules for the colonies.
Remember we told King George where to go when he got ham handed with rules for the colonies.
Perhaps the better question is why losing teams fans look to label the other team as cheaters, rather than do the hard work of competing with the better coached and better led team. If you want a team that really cheated, look to the Atlanta Falcons, who were punished for pumping in crowd noise to their stadium.
10
I actually read the NFL decision on deflategate. It was a bunch of malarkey that only serves to reduce the image of the NFL. When Brady goes, so do I.
14
I don't like any of the teams from Boston. None of them. Not because they cheat. I don't care if they cheat or not. I am not that wild about football, so it doesn't matter. What matters to me is that Boston loses today. Because I don't like Boston. I'm from New York. New York does not like Boston.
Lose Boston, Lose. Boo hiss boo.
Lose Boston, Lose. Boo hiss boo.
1
Read Interference a book by Dan Moldea about the NFL owners that the NFL tried to prevent from being published. It will tell you all you need to know about the NFL.
3
When Patriot fans or others reject the penalty to Brady because everybody is doing it, they are not ignoring the claim. They are making a fairness claim of their own: we are no different from others, why are we being singled out? We accept this claim sometimes (for example, if they are being singled out because of their race), but reject it other times. Here, it's a football game, and every team/player tries get an edge by "skirting" the rules. Hence, so many penalties. Why was Brady singled out and why was it handled in the way it was (they knew about it). The answer is that the Patriots may be probably the best and most successful at skirting the rules. Doesn't make them great, but many champions (hockey) are accused of being so, and, while it's possible that the team deflated balls, the science is not perfect and there's little evidence that Brady participated. There's even less evidence that it affected Brady.
All the teams are looking for an edge just look at the NCAA. Think the pro's are different. Think about how you do your taxes if you are so innocent.
Fact: I am a Pats fan, since about 1976 when I went to college in VT. (Loved the hapless Grogan years.)
Fact #2: I was a Giants fan from the 1960s until after the second Pats/GIants Super Bowl. (I grew up in Binghampton and on Long Island, NY.) But after the amazing Giants Super Bowl wins over the Pats, the claims and behavior of "most" Giants fan made me drop my allegiance to the Giants. Note: I still prefer the Yankess to the Red Sox, although I've learned to appreciate the Red Sox, my allegiance has never changed.
Of the three great Pats "cheats" this is my take.
Great Cheat #1: the great snow removal heist (yeah, I know, before Bel/Brady years). It was hilarious. Not scripted. Not actually done by the team. Totally affected the game. Not covered by the rules. Nothing to be done. Laugh, or cry and tear your hair, and move on.
Great Cheat #2: The spy cam filming. Many, if not most teams did it. Not covered explicitly by the rules. Every team had and has multiple cameras all the time, anyone with the brains and skill should have been doing it. Uncertain effect on game outcomes.
Great Cheat #3: Deflategate. Trivial. No effect on games. Not clearly prohibited by rules; as balls are given to refs at specified PSI. Balls are then given back to team, with no prohibitions on what the team can do to make them comfortable to team. No rule says don't scuff, polish, add or subtract air.
Fact #2: I was a Giants fan from the 1960s until after the second Pats/GIants Super Bowl. (I grew up in Binghampton and on Long Island, NY.) But after the amazing Giants Super Bowl wins over the Pats, the claims and behavior of "most" Giants fan made me drop my allegiance to the Giants. Note: I still prefer the Yankess to the Red Sox, although I've learned to appreciate the Red Sox, my allegiance has never changed.
Of the three great Pats "cheats" this is my take.
Great Cheat #1: the great snow removal heist (yeah, I know, before Bel/Brady years). It was hilarious. Not scripted. Not actually done by the team. Totally affected the game. Not covered by the rules. Nothing to be done. Laugh, or cry and tear your hair, and move on.
Great Cheat #2: The spy cam filming. Many, if not most teams did it. Not covered explicitly by the rules. Every team had and has multiple cameras all the time, anyone with the brains and skill should have been doing it. Uncertain effect on game outcomes.
Great Cheat #3: Deflategate. Trivial. No effect on games. Not clearly prohibited by rules; as balls are given to refs at specified PSI. Balls are then given back to team, with no prohibitions on what the team can do to make them comfortable to team. No rule says don't scuff, polish, add or subtract air.
2
On number 3- actually the balls are not given back to the teams and the rules are clear that after checked by the referee they are not to be altered in any way.
That a part time employee of the club removed the balls without permission is a violation, even if he routinely was to carry the balls to the field in sight of the referee after asking as part of his normal routine.
That a part time employee of the club removed the balls without permission is a violation, even if he routinely was to carry the balls to the field in sight of the referee after asking as part of his normal routine.
This whole "cheating" scandal is silly. What is not silly is Mr. Super White Tom Brady standing up our president at white house when Brady is in sport dominated by non-white players. An Irish-American and Patriots fan for decades, now I ma pulling for Matt Ryan. Brady lacks character and may be a racist to boot.
2
I don't live in New England, I despise radical sport fans of all types, and I am old enough to still be a ((moderate) Brooklyn Dodgers fan. I am also a retired lawyer, and have served as a judge. Notwithstanding the report relied on by Goodell was written by a lawyer, I have yet to find a practicing attorney who agrees with Goodell's finding of guilt. The lone judge who looked at the facts agreed and threw the case out. He was reversed solely by a finding that Goodell had the authority to make the final decision.
Even by the civil standard of "preponderance of credible evidence" there is nothing there. "Beyond a reasonable doubt", the standard in a criminal case? Laughable.
For whatever reason Goodell had it in for Brady. Psychobabble aside, depriving the public of watching this extremely talented man for four games based on no credible evidence warrants the Commissioner's removal, if not his real embarrassment.
Even by the civil standard of "preponderance of credible evidence" there is nothing there. "Beyond a reasonable doubt", the standard in a criminal case? Laughable.
For whatever reason Goodell had it in for Brady. Psychobabble aside, depriving the public of watching this extremely talented man for four games based on no credible evidence warrants the Commissioner's removal, if not his real embarrassment.
17
I imagine that Pats fans -definitely not one myself- are like people everywhere. Any person or institution that delivers victory and stature will have transgressions and character flaws overlooked by fans and followers. Remember what Lombardi said about winning. I was a Rams fan when they were in St. Louis, having grown up just east of there. I'll never forget the 2002 Super Bowl, watching the Pats D making amazingly prescient shifts and stunts, always making the right 'guess', stifling the most powerful offense in the league. Turns out they had video'd the Rams practices. They walked away with a Lombardi Trophy and a hand slap for getting caught. The tapes were destroyed and that incident somehow slipped below the radar, beneath the Jets incident and 'deflate-gate', even though that cheating delivered a championship in a game decided by a field goal as time expired. I think that Kraft is the best owner in sports; Belichick is the best head coach ever; and any conversation of best quarterback ever will include Brady. Shame is that they didn't need to cheat, but they have, and that will always be a part of their legacy.
1
The Rams lost because players and coaches study film. It's not that hard when your team doesn't make adjustments.
Pretty sure the story about filming practices was bogus, considering the person who claimed he taped them recanted.
Pretty sure the story about filming practices was bogus, considering the person who claimed he taped them recanted.
4
The rules still do not say that you cannot videotape opposing coaches, only that you cannot use those videotapes during the course of a game.
And the rules say that footballs must be given to the officials two hours before the game and not tampered with after that time. They do not say that the quarterback is responsible for what naturally happens to the air pressure in the footballs as they reach thermal equilibrium on the football field.
The NFL rules are set by the NFL Competition Committee and approved by the NFL Executive Committee and should be applied fairly to all teams, but the NFL Office in New York and the other 31 owners feel that the Patriots need to be held to a different standard. That is the life of a Patriots fan.
And the rules say that footballs must be given to the officials two hours before the game and not tampered with after that time. They do not say that the quarterback is responsible for what naturally happens to the air pressure in the footballs as they reach thermal equilibrium on the football field.
The NFL rules are set by the NFL Competition Committee and approved by the NFL Executive Committee and should be applied fairly to all teams, but the NFL Office in New York and the other 31 owners feel that the Patriots need to be held to a different standard. That is the life of a Patriots fan.
5
Baking's attempt to rationalize these transgressions actually reinforces Macur's point that for football fans, love is blind. There is no explanation for why Brady (soon after the game in question) instructs someone to take his cell phone and destroy. Nor is there any acknowledgement that the two Patriots staff implicated in Deflategate had exchanged texts stating that Brady was unhappy with the inflation level of footballs.
No one is saying the Patriots aren't an excellent team or that Brady doesn't belong in the Hall of Fame. But the evidence points to at least two incidents of cheating. New England fans should quite trying to ignore or rationalize this.
No one is saying the Patriots aren't an excellent team or that Brady doesn't belong in the Hall of Fame. But the evidence points to at least two incidents of cheating. New England fans should quite trying to ignore or rationalize this.
The full-page lead story on Super Bowl Sunday is: we all KNOW the success of the most successful NFL team of the past two decades is illegitimate ("the facts are there"), they probably STILL are cheating, so the only question is, how to explain the irrationality of their supporters? I'm obviously SO completely right, people who disagree must be crazy. The actual game, by the way, is irrelevant. That's some real classy sports journalism right there.
26
Anyone who thinks that such a detail-oriented person as Brady did not supervise the deflation of the balls is delusional. Do you really think this decision was left to an equipment manager who made the same "mistake" game after game? If so, next question is why Brady destroyed his cell phone in the midst of the investigation? It truly is the Trump phenomenon all over again, or to be chronologically correct, Trump is the Brady phenomenon all over again. Excuse it, call it gamesmanship, praise it, whatever. But don't deny that it's intentional breaking of a clear rule.
2
True. Bill and Hillary Clinton are also the Brady Phenomenon. And, I believe, the phenomenon goes both ways--your side can do no wrong, but also the other side can do no right,
Unfortunately, while football is merely a game, politics have real effects.
Unfortunately, while football is merely a game, politics have real effects.
Hasn't this cheating story already been debunked many times over? How about the penalties imposed, whether just or not, endured for the alleged infractions. Yet still they win. This story reminds me of the "sudden acceleration" myth of Toyota vehicles propogated by the Big Three several years ago. If you can't beat them, make something up.
7
Why do Atlanta Falcon fans overlook their team's pumping noise into their stadium.
7
Is that cheating?
Patriots fan checking in here.
The Patriots were not caught cheating twice. They were caught cheating once. Spygate was a clear violation of the rules of the league, and they received the harshest penalty in league history at the time.
The evidence does not support that they were cheating in Deflategate. The evidence supports the assertion that the balls were deflated naturally in accordance with the Ideal Gas Law. The actions of the NFL are consistent with the assertion that the Patriots were railroaded:
1. The morning after the game, ESPN reported (incorrectly) that 11 of 12 balls were 2+ pounds underinflated. The Patriots asked the NHL to publically correct this incorrect information, and they never did.
2. The "independent" investigators were retained as the league's counsel on repeated appeals.
3. The NFL repeatedly moved the goalposts. First it was "the Patriots deflated footballs." Then "Brady was more likely than not aware" of something happening. Then it was "Brady obstructed the investigation by destroying his phone."
4. The focus on the appeals in federal court was not the indefensible science behind deflation. It was over whether Comissioner Goodell has the authority to suspend players for whatever he wants, and his word is final.
Please do not continue to perpetuate the myth that Deflategate was cheating. There is no evidence of this, unless you are Roger Goodell.
But Spygate? Yep. Guilty. The Pats went 17-1 the rest of the season, under enhanced scrutiny.
The Patriots were not caught cheating twice. They were caught cheating once. Spygate was a clear violation of the rules of the league, and they received the harshest penalty in league history at the time.
The evidence does not support that they were cheating in Deflategate. The evidence supports the assertion that the balls were deflated naturally in accordance with the Ideal Gas Law. The actions of the NFL are consistent with the assertion that the Patriots were railroaded:
1. The morning after the game, ESPN reported (incorrectly) that 11 of 12 balls were 2+ pounds underinflated. The Patriots asked the NHL to publically correct this incorrect information, and they never did.
2. The "independent" investigators were retained as the league's counsel on repeated appeals.
3. The NFL repeatedly moved the goalposts. First it was "the Patriots deflated footballs." Then "Brady was more likely than not aware" of something happening. Then it was "Brady obstructed the investigation by destroying his phone."
4. The focus on the appeals in federal court was not the indefensible science behind deflation. It was over whether Comissioner Goodell has the authority to suspend players for whatever he wants, and his word is final.
Please do not continue to perpetuate the myth that Deflategate was cheating. There is no evidence of this, unless you are Roger Goodell.
But Spygate? Yep. Guilty. The Pats went 17-1 the rest of the season, under enhanced scrutiny.
17
Let me give you a stock liberal response to the question in the headline: they all do it.
Anyone who thinks other quarterbacks have not abused the power given to quarterbacks by the NFL to control the condition of the balls is an idiot. Anyone who thinks other NFL teams have not used any of the various new technologies to gain unfair advantage over other teams is naive. This has been going on since Bobby Thompson was informed by a man with a telescope that Branca was going to throw him a fastball in 1951. With the amount of money at stake in pro football (the winners of the Super Bowl this year will bring home over $100,000 per player) cheating is to be expected. The Patriots, because they are so successful, get caught more at cheating than others. Their constant and continuing success has annoyed the powers that be, i.e. the other owners, who then instruct the local constabulary, i.e., the commissioner's office, to spy on them.
This will be Tom Brady's 7th Super Bowl, which puts him way out in front of all the others, including John Elway (5), Terry Bradshaw (5) and Joe Montana (4).
Now that it's been revealed that top Patriots are Trump supporters, we can expect to see these kinds of articles excoriating them for everything under the sun.
They will be the designated villains in today's game. The irony is that rank sectionalism of the nation's left-wing elites will have to be suspended for a day when they are forced to root for a team from Georgia.
Anyone who thinks other quarterbacks have not abused the power given to quarterbacks by the NFL to control the condition of the balls is an idiot. Anyone who thinks other NFL teams have not used any of the various new technologies to gain unfair advantage over other teams is naive. This has been going on since Bobby Thompson was informed by a man with a telescope that Branca was going to throw him a fastball in 1951. With the amount of money at stake in pro football (the winners of the Super Bowl this year will bring home over $100,000 per player) cheating is to be expected. The Patriots, because they are so successful, get caught more at cheating than others. Their constant and continuing success has annoyed the powers that be, i.e. the other owners, who then instruct the local constabulary, i.e., the commissioner's office, to spy on them.
This will be Tom Brady's 7th Super Bowl, which puts him way out in front of all the others, including John Elway (5), Terry Bradshaw (5) and Joe Montana (4).
Now that it's been revealed that top Patriots are Trump supporters, we can expect to see these kinds of articles excoriating them for everything under the sun.
They will be the designated villains in today's game. The irony is that rank sectionalism of the nation's left-wing elites will have to be suspended for a day when they are forced to root for a team from Georgia.
3
"they all do it" is not something a liberal would say. Quite the contrary actually.
4
Bradshaw 4. All wins in which he threw a TD pass in the 4th quarter.
I stand corrected. He and Montana are tied with Brady with four Super Bowl wins, but they have the distinction of never having lost one.
I was living in the Bay Area during Montana's reign of excellence. It was thing of beauty. Brady was a high school kid in San Mateo during at the tail end of that time.
I was living in the Bay Area during Montana's reign of excellence. It was thing of beauty. Brady was a high school kid in San Mateo during at the tail end of that time.
I'm not from Boston but I've always admired the Patriots as a well-run organization and highly effective football team. By training I'm a physicist and statistician. I won't go into the physics of deflategate and the endless debate therein, but the statistics of this article are appalling.
First, social studies such as the ones quoted here are typically underpowered, unrepeatable and unscientific. Furthermore, an author gets to choose which studies to quote.
Secondly, in statistics you have to consider not just whether something is 'proven' but whether it matters, e.g. size of effect, the 'so-what' syndrome. Did videotaping other coaches give Belichick a significant advantage? Did Deflategate? My recollection is that in the second half, after the football pressure had been corrected, Brady slaughtered the Colts, so clearly even if true it was not significant.
Thirdly, the author suggests cheating is still responsible for the Patriots success. The two 'prior' example are both marginal in effect, so from a Bayesian point of view to explain the success of the team suggests something massive. While most of us secretly think perhaps Brady is a Terminator-style robot this seems unlikely.
Fourthly, the Patriots are under much more scrutiny than other teams, leading to a bias in discovery. Fifthly, Debategate was, well, a debate.. quality of 'data' here is poor. Sixthly, two events in ten years? Quantity is lacking too.
This is a poorly reasoned, highly biased smear piece.
First, social studies such as the ones quoted here are typically underpowered, unrepeatable and unscientific. Furthermore, an author gets to choose which studies to quote.
Secondly, in statistics you have to consider not just whether something is 'proven' but whether it matters, e.g. size of effect, the 'so-what' syndrome. Did videotaping other coaches give Belichick a significant advantage? Did Deflategate? My recollection is that in the second half, after the football pressure had been corrected, Brady slaughtered the Colts, so clearly even if true it was not significant.
Thirdly, the author suggests cheating is still responsible for the Patriots success. The two 'prior' example are both marginal in effect, so from a Bayesian point of view to explain the success of the team suggests something massive. While most of us secretly think perhaps Brady is a Terminator-style robot this seems unlikely.
Fourthly, the Patriots are under much more scrutiny than other teams, leading to a bias in discovery. Fifthly, Debategate was, well, a debate.. quality of 'data' here is poor. Sixthly, two events in ten years? Quantity is lacking too.
This is a poorly reasoned, highly biased smear piece.
169
Thank you, thank you Mr. Nicholls from Santa Fe for this well reasoned response. After suffering with the Patsies for years It would take a HUGE incident of malfeasance for me to stop rooting for them and loving the teams of the past 13 years. I can even forgive Mr. Kraft for visiting Trump after the election and Tom Brady for being a friend. After all his wife posted a big NO when asked if they voted for Trump. Of course who you vote for is a secret (hopefully). Who I will root for is not a secret.
GO PATS!
GO PATS!
3
What an allegory for the politics and government in our country today!
5
My family all defend Brady and the team. No matter what I say about facts. The point this article makes about not being able to acknowledge facts you don't want to believe is a national epidemic. Whether it be Brady, Trump, bigotry or actions that destroy the climate. Knowledge is our friend not our enemy. The strong survive but their quality of life diminishes overtime until their uninformed mistakes add up. Let's watch the game and hope no cheating comes back into fashion.
3
Well for one thing, Brady was accused of deflating footballs and most of us struggle to see how that act would help the Patriots win.
In baseball, Fenway Park has different dimensions than, say, Dodger Stadium - so the Red Sox stock their most with hitters who hit high fly balls to left field. Balls that would be outs at most stadiums are home runs at Fenway. Is that "cheating"?
In basketball, you have arenas where there are dead spots in the floor. The home team knows about it - the visitors not so much. If impacts the game and the home team knows where the dead spots are - but is it cheating?
In the Super Bowl there is an official whose job it is to make sure that the right balls are used and that they're properly inflated. Thats his job - he apparently didn't do it. Why is it any different than somebody dropping a pass but the pass being called complete by mistake? There are more protections against this than years ago - but it still happens.
In baseball, Fenway Park has different dimensions than, say, Dodger Stadium - so the Red Sox stock their most with hitters who hit high fly balls to left field. Balls that would be outs at most stadiums are home runs at Fenway. Is that "cheating"?
In basketball, you have arenas where there are dead spots in the floor. The home team knows about it - the visitors not so much. If impacts the game and the home team knows where the dead spots are - but is it cheating?
In the Super Bowl there is an official whose job it is to make sure that the right balls are used and that they're properly inflated. Thats his job - he apparently didn't do it. Why is it any different than somebody dropping a pass but the pass being called complete by mistake? There are more protections against this than years ago - but it still happens.
3
Today's game may be the strangest professional sports championship game in history on the basis of the relationship of one team with the US President and their fan base.
Normally I would not root for the Patriots even though I 've come to respect Robert Kraft several years ago on his philosophy, but as a life long Giants fan (anyone under 50 heard of Norm Snead, Ron Johnson, Tucker Fredrickson...) I rarely favor any teams when the Giants are not playing, but in this political climate where most of America (causal observes of football) outside of the north east states aka New England will probably be rooting for the Atlanta Falcons only because of the Patriots ties to President Trump, so I will root for the Patriots, even though most of their fan base most likely did not vote for President Trump.
Hopefully the game will be closely played to keep the game interesting on the field and that the entertainer at half time does not try to upstage the players with any political jabber because for those 3 to 4 hours may be the only time in a while that we are not bombarded with politics.
Normally I would not root for the Patriots even though I 've come to respect Robert Kraft several years ago on his philosophy, but as a life long Giants fan (anyone under 50 heard of Norm Snead, Ron Johnson, Tucker Fredrickson...) I rarely favor any teams when the Giants are not playing, but in this political climate where most of America (causal observes of football) outside of the north east states aka New England will probably be rooting for the Atlanta Falcons only because of the Patriots ties to President Trump, so I will root for the Patriots, even though most of their fan base most likely did not vote for President Trump.
Hopefully the game will be closely played to keep the game interesting on the field and that the entertainer at half time does not try to upstage the players with any political jabber because for those 3 to 4 hours may be the only time in a while that we are not bombarded with politics.
1
It's really the opposite: it' not comforting at all that "we can't help it." It's pretty scary, football aside. And it is wrong: we CAN help it: we can commit ourselves to confront our own "braintality." We can attempt to become conscious of our so-called implicit, sub-conscious, un-concious self. We can ask ourselves, what's the benefit to me? What is my motivation?
2
The Patriots and their documented predilection to cheat represent a more disturbing cultural and social disease embodied by most Americans over the last 3 decades - cheating, lying, and stealing, as well as abandoning all ethical and moral values in their never-ending and ruthless pursuit of "winning" by any and all means necessary. Which might be somewhat rationalized if "winning" was actually benefiting or gaining from these nefarious acts but as it turns out and is being proven daily by a documented conman, liar, and grand larcenists aka Mr, Trump, clearly the American definition of "winning" has been redefined by American biggest losers as having NO Integrity, Honesty, Fair Play, A Touch of Class, Ethics or Morals. And just like the losers intone ad nausea, if you say the lies enough they become the truth. The only place Trump and the Patriots belong is in the Hall of Shame. If America and Americans had any left.
3
Please try to understand that the Patriots and the Falcons have been caught cheating. I agree with you on Trump, but why conflate one team over another? Sports are my respite from politics. Enjoy the game for what it is-a game.
1
The fixed World Series of 1919 was in the last 3 decades? The 1951 NY Giants placing a person in the locker room to signal the batter the incoming pitch was in the last 3 decades? The 1950s fixing of college basketball games was in the last 3 decades? The corking of bats started long before the last 3 decades. East German and Russian jocks used drugs 50 years ago. Rosie Ruiz who was first declared the Boston Marathon winner after she didn't run the whole race but came out of the crowd and bolted to the ehad of the field as over 30 years ago. Ben Johnson caught using steroids for the Olympics over 30 years ago. Tonya Harding having Nancy Kerrigan assaulted was over 3 decades ago. I tire of all those claiming the "old days," were so more moral and ethical when they weren't. And to try to tie Trump to this is even more foolish. And I am not a Trump supporter. Perhaps YOU heard of Nixon from over 3 decades ago?
1
"We do know that love can be blind."
Certainly, the same can be said about hatred. And jealousy.
The columnist fails to mention that, in the deflategate "scandal," the outcome of the game was not changed, and the "evidence" against Brady was beyond flimsy. His punishment was a tremendous miscarriage of justice.
I am, by the way, a long-time resident of New Jersey, home of the Patriot-hating Jets, and a lifelong fan of the Detroit Lions, the team of my youth. I have no innate love of the Patriots, but I appreciate their excellence, which is a product of far more than whatever minor cheating they may (or may not have) engaged in.
I will be rooting for Bill and Tom today.
Certainly, the same can be said about hatred. And jealousy.
The columnist fails to mention that, in the deflategate "scandal," the outcome of the game was not changed, and the "evidence" against Brady was beyond flimsy. His punishment was a tremendous miscarriage of justice.
I am, by the way, a long-time resident of New Jersey, home of the Patriot-hating Jets, and a lifelong fan of the Detroit Lions, the team of my youth. I have no innate love of the Patriots, but I appreciate their excellence, which is a product of far more than whatever minor cheating they may (or may not have) engaged in.
I will be rooting for Bill and Tom today.
10
Excellence is always rewarded with someone on the sidelines trying to make a name for themselves explaining it away to make others, at lower levels of performance, feel better. And as for "many patriot fans," I've never met anyone who roots for a team, quarterback, or coach based on their political preferences. Beyond being irrelevant in terms of performance, it's a sad commentary that people can't even enjoy sports when they're unhappy with a free election.
2
This article is trying to make out of a game an exercise in moral reflection. While there have been two famous cases of "cheating" related to the Patriots, the author suggests that Patriot fans should rent their garments over the incidents. Trying to find out the strategy of the opposite team is inherent in all games. The guy in centerfield who tries to spot the catcher's signals or the hiring of an expert lip reader to see what the coach is saying, is "cheating". Notice that players and coaches cover their mouths to prevent disclosure of their strategy. Is the studying the opponent's game tapes a way of getting an unfair advantage. Is holding a player not carrying the ball in a football game another way of cheating? Is knocking down an adversary to prevent a goal a form of cheating? The moral lines are kind of blurred when dealing with modern sports. It used to be that in tennis you only applauded a good shot, now people applaud the opponent's double fault With respect to fans who forgive and forget all game transgression, there isn't a fan alive (maybe a couple) that wouldn't prefer a victory achieved "irregularly", than an "honorable" loss.
2
if a team uses banned ways to find the game plan of another team YES it is cheating. The guy in center field is on the same team as his catcher. If YOU knew baseball you would know the 2nd basement usually signals the catchers signs to the outfield so he can adjust his position a sto wher ethe ball might be hit be it to the left or right. Lip reading is NOT banned by baseball hence they use gloves to cover their mouth. Studing games tapes is common in ALL professional sports because its LEGAL. Holding a football player in football is usually followed by a penalty. Is it cheating or just rule breaking hence a penalty? As is knocking down a player to keep from scoring . The tennis thing is really dumb since cheering when or why is up to the fans not those playing the match. It use to good etiquette for certain times to cheer like holding open a door for a woman. But after an elderly woman cursed me out telling me she was capable of doing it herself, I stopped that. They still tell the fans to be quiet on the serve. if they don't what would they do? Sports are not defined by any moral codes since morality is personal and is not codified into laws. Sports are run by agreed to rules by what ever governing bodies.
I am not referring to a center fielder, but to the guy sitting in the stand with binoculars. The point is that the article seems to criticize Patriot fans for not being bothered by the cheating, when fans don't care how their team wins, ugly or not.
Why do Trump supporters continue to support him despite his immortality, ignorance, and narcissism? Loyalty, like faith, is blind.
60
"immortality" ? I hope not.
3
Why, because Hillary is worse, just more subtle. At least you know his thinking.
1
Dear Stephen, I presume you meant "immorality" and not "immortality." An "immortal Trump" would be the stuff of nightmares.
When I found out that the owner, quarterback and many others within the team were major supporters of the 45th, that ended it for me. They had my cheers for the Superbowl until then. GO ATLANTA!
22
It really doesn't matter were you live and cheat, does it? Granted, Tom Brady is a great quarterback and Bill Belichick is an awesome coach. The very simple reason why there were no punishments is because of the NFL money making machine needs that grease- if two of the most talented individuals in the company are sidelined, well, then what happens? Reputations will be destroyed, wins will be lost and the NFL will loose money. A simple slap on the hand will suffice. Patriot Fans turned the other cheek because they just cannot handle seeing their darling quarterback and coach being punished.
3
There were punishments for Brady and the team. Brady lost 25% of his regular season salary, since he didn't play 25% of the season, and the team was fined a large amount also. The seats were empty when Brady didn't play? No they sold out.
Spygate was an issue because of where the Pats filmed from, not because they filmed. This article needed more accuracy.
64
This article is completely biased and insulting to the Patriots. All I see is a hard working team capable of athletic miracles. This article covers two weak points and nothing else. I should write for the Times. Worst article I have ever wasted my time on.
3
John G., thank you! Too much in the article is about not merely accuracy but objectivity.
1
Hello? You are citing psychological studies as hard science while ignoring an MIT physicists two hour long explanation of ACTUAL science that explains why the balls could not have been deflated. The truth is often in the middle: the Patriots push the boundaries of the rules during games and clearly violated a league rule by videotaping opposing coach's signals from field level with disguised cameras. And they used the eligible receiver reporting rule in a way that defied the spirit of the rule. But they have been falsely accused of filming opponent's practices, jamming opponent's headsets, stealing play books, and deflating balls. A psychological study on professional envy would be just as valid as the one you cite here.
131
In fact, you are a fine example of the topic of this article:
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/direct-evidence-shows-tom-brady-knew-about-d...
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/direct-evidence-shows-tom-brady-knew-about-d...
The Falcons were found guilty of piping in extra crowd noise for two seasons and were fined $350,000 and lost a 2015 draft pick. That sounds like cheating. Since their home record was not good those two seasons I guess no one cared. Last December the Giants reported to the NFL that the Steelers had under-inflated balls (sound familiar?). Goodell quickly dismissed the claim.
156
Very good points. It's only cheating if the Patriots do it. This article feels like a post on a Jets forum, except with much better usage of the English language.
10
I'm a neutral (non-Patriot) fan, but it seems to me that the leap from this silly coin-flip experiment to "Patriots fans excusing cheating" is either disingenuous or just non-sensical. There's no doubt that the writer has no idea what the Patriots were punished for: 1). Videotaping opposing coaches - from the wrong part of the stadium. -- a refinement of the videotaping rule just made illegal that year. Yes they violated it and deserved a punishment, though a 1st round draft pick and 500000$ was harsh. NO ONE thinks that videotaping had anything to do with their success. Didn't they go 19-0 the next year?
And the deflated footballs thing weren't there studies showing that fi led conditions may have caused a slight deflation? Weren't the Colts balls not tested? Wasn't the score 43-8? Does anyone think those balls had anything to do with anything?
Players and coaches know the Patriots success has nothing to do with anything but having a great owner, savvy player management, maybe the greatest QB of all time and probably the greatest coach of all time. They're the smartest guys in the room. And that's the SAME reason why Other Teams' Fans hate them. They win. A lot. And there's nothing they or their teams can do about. So they cry sorcery, like some medieval inquisition or primitive Stone Age mob.
And no sophomoric psych pseudoscience can dress up one of the basest of human emotions, jealousy. But apparently it can you published in the NYT!
And the deflated footballs thing weren't there studies showing that fi led conditions may have caused a slight deflation? Weren't the Colts balls not tested? Wasn't the score 43-8? Does anyone think those balls had anything to do with anything?
Players and coaches know the Patriots success has nothing to do with anything but having a great owner, savvy player management, maybe the greatest QB of all time and probably the greatest coach of all time. They're the smartest guys in the room. And that's the SAME reason why Other Teams' Fans hate them. They win. A lot. And there's nothing they or their teams can do about. So they cry sorcery, like some medieval inquisition or primitive Stone Age mob.
And no sophomoric psych pseudoscience can dress up one of the basest of human emotions, jealousy. But apparently it can you published in the NYT!
199
The Best! Geez, if you were a running back I could've used your tenacity all those years of scrambling...scrambling. Btw, I was right about Joe Kapp!
And to think they wanted to tar and feather Belichik in Cleveland.
It's the NFL itself that is corrupt. Instead of making transparent and open attempts to ensure 'competitive balance' like other sports organizations, they use stupid boys club allegations that play out like a soap opera.
This helps keep fans interested during their absurdly long off season. The league also undermine their players, under paying them when compared to other major sports despite being much more unsafe.
This helps keep fans interested during their absurdly long off season. The league also undermine their players, under paying them when compared to other major sports despite being much more unsafe.
Not exactly. Most Pats fans acknowledge that Spygate happened and that it was wrong--but that it probably didn't help the Pats all that much, anyway (which is debatable).
Most Pats fans also believe that Deflategate is different--that it was trumped up (no pun intended) by a league office that needed to over-punish the Pats to satisfy the wrath of the other team owners who felt the Pats hadn't been punished harshly enough for Spygate.
It's pretty obvious in both cases, whatever else you believe about them, that the Pats are able to win without any "cheating." If you think the Pats are winning only, or mainly, because of cheating, your thinking is probably being affected by biases of your own. (Probably a similar process to that mentioned in the article.)
As far as Kraft, Belichick, and Brady supporting Trump--that's having a major effect on me and on many Pats fans--enough so that the outcome of tonight's game will matter less to us than the Superbowl games in the past. Many of us are more worried about justice for immigrants, a kind society, and avoiding war than the outcome of a football game.
Most Pats fans also believe that Deflategate is different--that it was trumped up (no pun intended) by a league office that needed to over-punish the Pats to satisfy the wrath of the other team owners who felt the Pats hadn't been punished harshly enough for Spygate.
It's pretty obvious in both cases, whatever else you believe about them, that the Pats are able to win without any "cheating." If you think the Pats are winning only, or mainly, because of cheating, your thinking is probably being affected by biases of your own. (Probably a similar process to that mentioned in the article.)
As far as Kraft, Belichick, and Brady supporting Trump--that's having a major effect on me and on many Pats fans--enough so that the outcome of tonight's game will matter less to us than the Superbowl games in the past. Many of us are more worried about justice for immigrants, a kind society, and avoiding war than the outcome of a football game.
310
@Jimfromnextdoor: Completely agree with you.
By some strange coincidence all my closest friends from grad school are Patriots fans and their defense closely mirrors what you wrote. In particular about Spygate: it didn't help the Pats much.
I've enjoyed forwarding them all Bill Maher's rant about supporting the Falcons today. Given that they all vote Democrat, I'm pretty sure they are quite conflicted about today - whether or not they admit it!
By some strange coincidence all my closest friends from grad school are Patriots fans and their defense closely mirrors what you wrote. In particular about Spygate: it didn't help the Pats much.
I've enjoyed forwarding them all Bill Maher's rant about supporting the Falcons today. Given that they all vote Democrat, I'm pretty sure they are quite conflicted about today - whether or not they admit it!
Jim, how is it "obvious to people that "the Pats are able to win without any "cheating"?" Are you saying that the fact that they haven't been caught cheating in the current season proves they aren't cheaters? Does that mean that an unfaithful wife or husband who hasn't been caught cheating in the current year is no longer a cheater? Does the "cheater" clock reset at the start of every year or season? Because - if it does - then there must be a serious uptick in room occupancy rates at "No-Tell Motels" in December of every year.
Spot on
As a teacher I'm more than familiar with that popular American piece of folk wisdom; "If you're not cheatin', you're not tryin'"
So, I leave the ultimate judgement to God.
Go Pats !! :)
So, I leave the ultimate judgement to God.
Go Pats !! :)
9
The psychology at issue is well known, and no doubt New England fans (I am one) don't view the facts the same way as non-NE fans. But the entire issue is far more complicated. Many if not all NFL franchises have broken rules, important ones from cheating the salary cap to communicating with players in illegal ways. So, equally interesting is how so many non-NE fans are so sure that Bill and Brady are devils incarnate. Success is a factor, and you entirely miss it. Also interesting is how Goodell is still widely (outside NE) loathed, and in part from they way he went after Brady, and that is neglected as well.
And I agree with abo that the Trump connection is more disturbing than any other past behavior.
And I agree with abo that the Trump connection is more disturbing than any other past behavior.
5
It's not about ignoring the negatives, it's about not wanting to dwell on them forever. Most teams have bent the rules; the Pats are probably the best team right now; Brady was railroaded on "Deflategate"; people are poor sports and bad, bad losers.
The entire Falcons team has more respect for Brady and his coaches than you do. And a lot of innocent players on the Pats are being tarred with same whiners' brush as purported cheaters. Enjoy the game.
The entire Falcons team has more respect for Brady and his coaches than you do. And a lot of innocent players on the Pats are being tarred with same whiners' brush as purported cheaters. Enjoy the game.
6
In the "experiment", the 90% who said they had acted fairly were not "lying". They had, in fact, followed the rules that the experimenter had given them. Therefore they had acted "fairly". If they had broken the rules but said they had followed them, then they would have been lying. Nor is rule-breaking necessarily cheating. If a baseball player runs outside the lines to avoid a tag he should be called out - he has broken a rule. But has he "cheated"? Put another way, if a Yankees player runs outside the lines to avoid a tag, is he cheating? Or is this another "thought experiment"?
3
I would like to know the source of the psychological experiment that began this article. I spent 30 minutes searching for it and found research that indicated a far higher percentage of human beings would opt for fairness when the outcome was only known to them.
It is important that the author's information is accurate on this because the cynicism promoted by the premise that such a high percentage of human beings cheat when free from fear of exposure is of much greater social import than the rest of the trivia that constitutes this article.
It is important that the author's information is accurate on this because the cynicism promoted by the premise that such a high percentage of human beings cheat when free from fear of exposure is of much greater social import than the rest of the trivia that constitutes this article.
22
Thank God for this article.
I think Brady cheated in every Playoff Game of his career.
Deflating footballs was his thing.
And the fact that one single ball not deflated, out of 12,
tells you their "explanation defense" that "the cold did it",
was false and Brady knew it was false.
11 balls cannot be deflated by cold and one ball not.
So Brady is also a liar.
I think Brady cheated in every Playoff Game of his career.
Deflating footballs was his thing.
And the fact that one single ball not deflated, out of 12,
tells you their "explanation defense" that "the cold did it",
was false and Brady knew it was false.
11 balls cannot be deflated by cold and one ball not.
So Brady is also a liar.
8
So deflated balls is the excuse that the New England team is in the Super Bowl but no New York team is?
I say humbug! New York lost fair and square.
I say humbug! New York lost fair and square.
4
Did Brady deflate the Colts footballs as well?
4
Sounds like a deflated Browns fan(Pun intended). My opinion is that Brady probably was in some way involved in deflating the footballs. I still think the punishment didn't fit the "crime". Akin to a long prison sentence for a speeding ticket. From what I could find, the actual NFL parameters for the amount of air pressure in the footballs was totally arbitrary. It calls for between 11.5 - 13.5 PSI. Where did they come up with this #? If Brady likes the PSI a liitle lower, and Arron Rodgers a little higher, who cares. Nobody ever complains against the real cheaters in NFL. Performance enhancement drugs. A defensive linemen taking it bulls over an offensive linemen that is clean,sacks the QB. Thats cheating!
2
This article is ridiculous. The story is why Colts executives can get away with exploiting personal relationships in NFL HQ to use prejudice and jealousy against the Patriots, and the NFL leadership took that prejudice and false accusation to the max. That's cheating at the highest level and it's the majority culture in America now. No wonder the country is in the situation we are in. Write about that.
53
What I can't stand about the Patriots is that the punishment doesn't fit the crime. How are they allowed to keep their championships when they were proven to have cheated in those years? "Cheaters never win" you learn growing up. Not in this case.
For example, an Australian football (rugby league) team had its championship win taken away for violating the league's salary cap rules. There is now no champion from that year. In my view that is the only fair punishment.
I'm not even really a big football fan, I am just a fan of fairness. So today, I say Go Falcons.
For example, an Australian football (rugby league) team had its championship win taken away for violating the league's salary cap rules. There is now no champion from that year. In my view that is the only fair punishment.
I'm not even really a big football fan, I am just a fan of fairness. So today, I say Go Falcons.
6
The psychological mechanism at work in the cases described, also affects politics, religion, press, courts, criticism, and education; not to mention breast feeding!
3
My thoughts exactly. It's tribalism and the more it's rewarded, the more intense the rivalry.
Why does the NY media refuse to report on the Giants ongoing cheating: deflating balls, tampering with undrafted college players, illegal helmet hits to the ribs?
24
Oh please. Cheating?? Filming your opponents and soft footballs are hardly that. What really annoys, especially those morbid Jets fans, is the continued, uninterrupted and total domination of that division - and gang green - by the B&B era of the Boston/New England Patriots. The current NFL bureaucracy hates innovation, detests the unmasking of its parochial status quo and absolutely shakes wth the violence of snake charming Elmer Gantrys when they are given the finger by any of its mavericks. Al Davis was one such string-puller; these Patriots are another. Kudos to them! Blow the falcons out by halftime and show no mercy. I might have empathy for the embarrassed falcon players, but putting a thumb in the eye of the league is reason enough for dancing in the streets, or at least, around the coffee table.
13
Well, Tarkenton, filming your opponents practices and drills, and deflating footballs are cheating, as plainly expressed in the rulebook. Don't know what your profession is, but you definitely show talent for spin doctoring. Trump can always use help tampering with the facts.
3
HPS:
You've outed me! Cool name you chose btw...
You've outed me! Cool name you chose btw...
This is also cheating:
The Atlanta Falcons forfeited a fifth-round 2016 draft pick and were fined $350,000 by the NFL for using artificial crowd noise during games at the Georgia Dome over the past two seasons.
The Atlanta Falcons forfeited a fifth-round 2016 draft pick and were fined $350,000 by the NFL for using artificial crowd noise during games at the Georgia Dome over the past two seasons.
40
That's true. That was cheating. And we got penalized.
But we didn't cheat and then pretend we didn't do it, and act like we were the victims.
And I wouldn't keep bringing up your cheating every chance you get like it's some sort of badge of honor.
You're a great football team. You didn't have to do those things. Say you're sorry. Own up to it like men.
But we didn't cheat and then pretend we didn't do it, and act like we were the victims.
And I wouldn't keep bringing up your cheating every chance you get like it's some sort of badge of honor.
You're a great football team. You didn't have to do those things. Say you're sorry. Own up to it like men.
1
A just punishment. Winning post-season games through even more blatant cheating should result in something more severe -like forfeiture of victories.
1
They tried to sting the Patriots and it blew up in their face. That's what happened.
2
I'm not sure you can extrapolate test results from New England with the entire population of Homo Sapiens. It could be that horrible weather, poor diet and a lack of courtesy lead to an infantile group attachment and propensity to lie and cheat. If the same study was run in Atlanta, you would see righteous and moral people. Go Falcons.
3
It's definitely true that the average Pats fan is incapable of criticizing the team's behavior. But it's just as true that fans in the rest of the league are just as eager to explain the Patriots complete domination by saying it's because they're cheaters. The two incidents the Pats got busted for had nothing to do with them winning four super bowls. Bill Belichick IS a mastermind, Tom Brady is superhuman and the rest of the organization really is a model of perfection.
Is there no room for the possibility that the Patriots have cheated in the past and may do so in the future, but are also an incredible football team with brilliant coaching and good management?
Is there no room for the possibility that the Patriots have cheated in the past and may do so in the future, but are also an incredible football team with brilliant coaching and good management?
19
All true, except they did win their first Super Bowl by videoing the Rams' workouts. They got a couple hand slaps for it, and Goodell ordered the tapes destroyed. This was by far their worst cheating, but somehow that treachery has slipped from the conversation.
2
Are you sure about that? I'm pretty sure Matt Walsh said it didn't happen. He's the guy who said it did happen, then said it didn't.
So which is it?
So which is it?
1
Speaking just of Deflategate, that shameful episode was exposed by eminent statisticians and physicists to be a load of malarkey, an embarrassment for the NFL and Goodell who didn't even have the decency to admit he was wrong. But what do you expect from a league of billionaire that extort cities to pay for their extravagant stadiums? Or who ignore the physical damage done to their players until forced to take some pathetically inadequate action? Or who wrap themselves in the flag while charging the Pentagon for it? Get the point, the whole league is shady.
90
Science does not support the notion that any cheating occurred with Deflategate. No air was missing from the balls if one applies the ideal gas law to the measured pressures. Listen to an MIT professor explain the science here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwxXsEltyas.
The national failure of the news media to push back against NFL lies is an example of how "fake news" has taken over our society. Science has been expelled from the national dialogue. Sadly, the NYTIMES continues to cover lies rather than report accurate information.
The national failure of the news media to push back against NFL lies is an example of how "fake news" has taken over our society. Science has been expelled from the national dialogue. Sadly, the NYTIMES continues to cover lies rather than report accurate information.
105
A better article would center on the psychology of envy. "Spygate" involved the trivial issue of from which place in a stadium taping of the game could be done. There is no reason to believe any advantage at was obtained, Belichick shrugged it off, paid the fines, and unlike the teams that consistently lose to the Patriots, moved on. The deflategate non-sense simply never happened. The NFL had no rigorous way of checking the pressure of the footballs, used several different gauges and found the Colts balls deflated as well. Other teams have manipulated the balls and received warnings. But the owners pressured Goodell to whack the Pats and its good business all around. The losers can cling to these distractions, it's understandable, its easier than admitting inferiority, but the Pats will be "on to the Super Bowl".
62
So happy to see an article that is not political!
I think that the heart of the matter is the trend to create an enemy from a competitor, then to make a case against that enemy demonizing them, without forgiveness, reconciliation with the amends that have been made or reference to any context. It is sad for all concerned because I love to watch good competition and I do not see it as a zero sum game for fans or players - in this case, football, it is entertainment and jobs, not right and wrong, true and false, good and evil. Just a bunch of men playing a game for TV money.
The crap that is consuming politics today, the side that loses an election moving from a minority party to a loyal opposition to a 'resistance' that is demonized and demonizes in return is another symptom of this trend, and an unhealthy one. A first step back might be to take down the whole label of 'cheaters' and the inflammatory passions that raises, and simply enjoy a really good game between two good teams with solid players who shake hands after the game and go home to their families and who respect each other and the game. That, in my view is what we need to see in Washington, too.
I think that the heart of the matter is the trend to create an enemy from a competitor, then to make a case against that enemy demonizing them, without forgiveness, reconciliation with the amends that have been made or reference to any context. It is sad for all concerned because I love to watch good competition and I do not see it as a zero sum game for fans or players - in this case, football, it is entertainment and jobs, not right and wrong, true and false, good and evil. Just a bunch of men playing a game for TV money.
The crap that is consuming politics today, the side that loses an election moving from a minority party to a loyal opposition to a 'resistance' that is demonized and demonizes in return is another symptom of this trend, and an unhealthy one. A first step back might be to take down the whole label of 'cheaters' and the inflammatory passions that raises, and simply enjoy a really good game between two good teams with solid players who shake hands after the game and go home to their families and who respect each other and the game. That, in my view is what we need to see in Washington, too.
1
John?
You are decidedly in the minority. Sports are MEANT to elicit great emotion. Do you have cheerleaders with pom-poms exhorting you to do the BEST job you can every day at work?
This is a time when it’s okay to be human, to be with like minded individuals who would never be friends with outside a stadium or arena--just coming together to cheer for YOUR team, to applaud super human plays that we can only dream of doing. To cheer like a maniac and maybe yell “You suck!” that we REALLY can’t do in our normal everyday lives.
We still remember the “shot heard round the world” “Miracle on Ice” “I’m the luckiest man alive”---all times of great emotion whether gawd-awful depression or one of the finest moments of our lives!
It’s about having PASSION and it’s okay to show it!
It’s about being human!
You want to see passion at its best? I just watched the movie “Sully” yesterday-watched the hi-def DVD three times. And EVERY time I cried with joy watching humans, yes New Yorkers, at their BEST.
We ALL need passion in our lives. It won’t be “Wuthering Heights” but we can all enjoy that one handed catch in the endzone OR watching NY Giants’ Eli Peyton escaping three tacklers to hit wide receiver Tyree to win the 2009 Super Bowl against (oh gee!) the NE Pats!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGe65YgzV_k
You are decidedly in the minority. Sports are MEANT to elicit great emotion. Do you have cheerleaders with pom-poms exhorting you to do the BEST job you can every day at work?
This is a time when it’s okay to be human, to be with like minded individuals who would never be friends with outside a stadium or arena--just coming together to cheer for YOUR team, to applaud super human plays that we can only dream of doing. To cheer like a maniac and maybe yell “You suck!” that we REALLY can’t do in our normal everyday lives.
We still remember the “shot heard round the world” “Miracle on Ice” “I’m the luckiest man alive”---all times of great emotion whether gawd-awful depression or one of the finest moments of our lives!
It’s about having PASSION and it’s okay to show it!
It’s about being human!
You want to see passion at its best? I just watched the movie “Sully” yesterday-watched the hi-def DVD three times. And EVERY time I cried with joy watching humans, yes New Yorkers, at their BEST.
We ALL need passion in our lives. It won’t be “Wuthering Heights” but we can all enjoy that one handed catch in the endzone OR watching NY Giants’ Eli Peyton escaping three tacklers to hit wide receiver Tyree to win the 2009 Super Bowl against (oh gee!) the NE Pats!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGe65YgzV_k
1
What bothers me about this article is that it is based on the supposition that they actually cheated. I admit I'm a life long Pats fan - all through the bad years, enduring them being called the "Patsies" and ecstatic when they won their first Super Bowl. But I'm not blind either. I was bothered by the deflate gate story - and I read a lot about it. What I discovered was that there was a robust and convincing group of scientists and analysts that seriously questioned the facts as the NFL set them forth. And the degree of punishment far exceeded any precedent for this type of offense. This was never a cut and dried situation. Since then, several other teams have been charged and fined for various types of "cheating". I'm not saying that excuses either the Patriots or those teams - just that the nature of the game is that teams and players are constantly pushing the envelope - it's part of the game. What's hard for me is that the Pats always seem to be judged so harshly compared to everyone else. There are many reasons for this: envy, Bilichick's distain for seemingly everyone and everything but his team, and the general obnoxiousness of the Boston fan base. But to say we blindly look past facts just isn't true.
52
Morality behind closed doors usually rings hollow.
2
Actually one's morality is how one behaves when no one is watching.
3
But we cannot excuse Belichick and Brady for their support of Trump. People in Massachusetts will suffer. The two have no regard for the people who support them. Why do they support Trump? Selfish macho types flock together.
13
The Super Bowl trophy is named after a coach who once said "Winning isn't everything. It's the only thing."
Fans will excuse anything as long as their guys bring home another trophy for the trophy case. As Jay Pritchard once observed on Modern Family "Guilt fades. Hardware is forever.
Fans will excuse anything as long as their guys bring home another trophy for the trophy case. As Jay Pritchard once observed on Modern Family "Guilt fades. Hardware is forever.
3
This article is total nonsense. The Patriots were not 'caught' deflating footballs: the scientific evidence demonstrated quite conclusively that the footballs lost pressure because of the temperature drop, not because of any action by Patriots' players (Brady) or locker room attendants or anyone else. And as for their previous offense: yes they were caught cheating and punished ... and many other teams have been caught cheating and punished ... and more often than the Patriots.
45
First point: It's far more disturbing to many if not most Patriot fans that Brady, Belichick, and Kraft are Trump supporters than that they have cheated.
Second point; the NYT didn't seem to mind Alex Rodriguez's cheating in its effusive coverage of the cheater at the beginning of this past season.
Third point: this article talks about Boston fan bias, but what's evident from the article is NY - and anti-Patriot - fan bias. The reporter doesn't seem to have enough self-realization to consider the possibility that it is *his* moral compass which is defective and biased. Why does the NYT and many NY fans continually find it necessary to denigrate the Patriots? Why is this article dressed up as objective when it's just whining? Could it be the reporter is just a sore loser?
Second point; the NYT didn't seem to mind Alex Rodriguez's cheating in its effusive coverage of the cheater at the beginning of this past season.
Third point: this article talks about Boston fan bias, but what's evident from the article is NY - and anti-Patriot - fan bias. The reporter doesn't seem to have enough self-realization to consider the possibility that it is *his* moral compass which is defective and biased. Why does the NYT and many NY fans continually find it necessary to denigrate the Patriots? Why is this article dressed up as objective when it's just whining? Could it be the reporter is just a sore loser?
286
Well said. You have captured precisely my thoughts about the clear anti-Patriots bias of the NYT that has been spouted for years. Is this even a story? As much as people like to claim that Belichick and Brady are cheaters, there isn't an NFL team or fan base that wouldn't openly welcome either of them to their organization. Play the game and let the amazing talent speak for itself.
1
Well said, abo. The NYT is predictably hostile to New England sports teams. but glosses over the NY teams' sins. For a newspaper that prides itself in being a national voice, the Times is surprisingly slanted and parochial when it comes to New York--New England sports rivalries.
On the other hand, there is the opportunity to pander to all the hyped up anti-Patriot sentiment in the country. The latter is very tempting for second-rate sports writers and radio sports talkmeisters.
On the other hand, there is the opportunity to pander to all the hyped up anti-Patriot sentiment in the country. The latter is very tempting for second-rate sports writers and radio sports talkmeisters.
8
Well, there is definitely some "whining" going on around here...
4