There is a right and wrong way to run. For right way see Jay Dicharry's book "Running Rewired". If you run correctly you will strengthen your knees and there are huge Cochrane reviews to prove that, which I read about in other NYT articles. If you run incorrectly like 95% of runners you will injure your knees. It's been 50 years and the same ignorance and fears still rage. You have to be taught how to run. You can't run the way you think feels right for you, you have to run according to some principles such as stand up straight. See the book. Please.
5
It’s too bad this type of information is primarily read by the already converted. As someone mentioned there are many approaches to running (I.e., plyometrics). Impact exercises are important to keeping bones (and joints) healthy.
I am an advocate of shallow water running, which provides the same benefits of running on a track with the additional benefits of resistance and core strengthening.
6
I had my first major knee injury at about age 19. And other twistsand turns thru the years. Lots of sitting,no running... but now I have two artificial knees that I would like to keep in good shape as long as possible. How about an article on that subject?? PS I waited for 12 yearsuntil age 70 to have the surgery... given the 20 year life span.
3
I am a consistent runner. I have extreme osteoarthritis from a childhood ACL. Running a moderately paced 3 miles 3 times a week is the only thing that keeps my knee feeling pain free. Alternately, sitting for a long time causes pain in my knee. I think there is something to this study just based on how I've managed pain within the 30 years of living with almost no cartilage .
6
What incentive did the researchers use to convince the volunteers to allow extraction of their knee fluid? Seems like a risky procedure to me with a high potential for serious harm if something goes wrong.
3
I hope they would also include a group of walkers for comparison.
1
I question the discussion of COMP build up. What if COMP is simply a byproduct of damaged knees? In that case, the ability of frequent running to expel COMP into the bloodstream would be akin to simply taking out the trash. There is nothing in this piece about whether increased COMP is actually harmful to the knee joint. Does the study address this?
1
Maybe the people that continue to run, do so because they have proper running mechanics. People always questioned me when they saw me run and I told them they were wrong. Three ankle surgeries, two arthritic knees and two hip replacements later, I am afraid they were right.
2
There is jogging, loping, sprinting... all very different kinds of running, affecting the knees differently, as well as different muscles (jogging affects the calves, sprinting the hamstrings), also there are the differences in surfaces, street, dirt path, grass, sand. Flat or hills? Running shoes or barefoot?
I do soft and hard sand running (jogging and sprinting) on the beach, barefoot. That has to be completely different on my knees than would jogging on the street.
It's a very limited study.
I do soft and hard sand running (jogging and sprinting) on the beach, barefoot. That has to be completely different on my knees than would jogging on the street.
It's a very limited study.
2
with a sample size that small how can the results be viewed credibly.
2
Because of the extremely focused study design, and because the results are essentially binary rather than a spectrum of variation. But you're right of course in saying the results don't prove anything -- even the author admits the results only point in the direction of future research.
My hope is that this is expanded to other forms of exercise, because whatever effects it has on blood proteins, running HURTS my knees, and I have to do other things!
My hope is that this is expanded to other forms of exercise, because whatever effects it has on blood proteins, running HURTS my knees, and I have to do other things!
1
I might suggest considering rowing as an alternative to running.
Full body extension, sliding seat rowing works most major muscle groups,
not only in the legs, and it definitely protects the knees from balistic injuries typical of running.
And done right, it's aerobic, besides.
That said, I'm not running up here, in the winter. But when I do, I revisit the high school and college kid in me who used to run cross country. The old zen rhythms come right back. Right up until some 72 year old body part starts to ping, that is. And back to rowing we go. :)
Full body extension, sliding seat rowing works most major muscle groups,
not only in the legs, and it definitely protects the knees from balistic injuries typical of running.
And done right, it's aerobic, besides.
That said, I'm not running up here, in the winter. But when I do, I revisit the high school and college kid in me who used to run cross country. The old zen rhythms come right back. Right up until some 72 year old body part starts to ping, that is. And back to rowing we go. :)
5
Cool it, NYT critics. This is not the New England Journal of Medicine. There's nothing wrong with reporting some preliminary results on a subject of wide interest.
Previous articles implicated jogging in osteoarthritis, equally without proof:
http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/07/09/relief-for-joints-besieged-by-a...
Previous articles implicated jogging in osteoarthritis, equally without proof:
http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/07/09/relief-for-joints-besieged-by-a...
8
I found this to be an interesting report on what even the headline clearly implies are merely exploratory findings ("Running MAY Be Good for Your Knees").
No, Gretchen's column doesn't provide any p-values or confidence intervals, but then it's not journal article, so no one should expect that.
What the column does provide is a preliminary look at some important, ongoing research, and I, for one, found it fascinating.
No, Gretchen's column doesn't provide any p-values or confidence intervals, but then it's not journal article, so no one should expect that.
What the column does provide is a preliminary look at some important, ongoing research, and I, for one, found it fascinating.
1
Thank you very much for this article! Per usual, the advice falls on deaf ears from the NYT exercise-shy.
People, stop making excuses and get outside - exercise! You can do it. Begin with a slow walk/trot.
Just do it!
People, stop making excuses and get outside - exercise! You can do it. Begin with a slow walk/trot.
Just do it!
1
My philosophy is to run until you can't, then walk until you can't. Or ask yourself, what walks on four legs in the morning, runs with two legs in the afternoon, walks with two legs in the evening, and needs a carriage at midnight?
1
By accident, this appeared on the same day as a visit to the knee replacement surgeon. Forgetting the look on his face when he began reading, the only comment he made was that you would have to have a specific genetic disposition on the plus side and then a big maybe.
And as far as the rest of the body ????
Just hope no one does damage in the name of "health".
And as far as the rest of the body ????
Just hope no one does damage in the name of "health".
Why editorialize a study on young people who have no degenerative joint disease? The outcomes do not measure the frequency of degenerative joint disease; the time frame is too short! Popularizing studies that cast themselves as identifying a factor associated with a lower incidence of DJD is bad science. Measure the molecular element in 60 year old runners and compare to same age group of non-runners with knee DJD, models a better research design. An argument challenging the premise that running prevents DJD is that people with incipient cartilage disrepair stop running, leaving only runners with genetically engineered joints. (I am the former; had to retool exercising from running to the low impact elliptical due to knee DJD, hoping to procrastinate a joint arthroplasty.)
1
Interesting findings which, incidentally, support the experience I've always had. Having run fairly regularly since the age of 15 (I'm now 61), I find that it's easier to stay free of joint pain by running every day. Only when I lay off for a few days at a time do my knees feel sore or creaky. Now maybe I know why.
1
"But sitting for 30 minutes also changed the knee, he points out, which he and his colleagues had not expected. Sitting seemed to make the knee biochemically more vulnerable to later disease."
More evidence that the chair is evil, first identified as evil by Galen Cranz's book The Chair: Rethinking Culture, Body, and Design http://www.bodyconsciousdesign.com/uploads/interview_galen_cranz_portlan...
More evidence that the chair is evil, first identified as evil by Galen Cranz's book The Chair: Rethinking Culture, Body, and Design http://www.bodyconsciousdesign.com/uploads/interview_galen_cranz_portlan...
1
Dear Ms. Reynolds -
I am somewhat dismayed for you by the comments here. Let me say this. Thank you for an interesting article. As an adult, I did notice that 6 is not a big number. But, as an adult, I was also able to put that bit of information in context (with your help) and still manage find the article interesting. I did not feel the edifices of science or journalism crashing down on my head because of your temerity in writing about preliminary research.
Since it only took 3 minutes to read, I feel that my time was well spent to boot. Thank you.
I am somewhat dismayed for you by the comments here. Let me say this. Thank you for an interesting article. As an adult, I did notice that 6 is not a big number. But, as an adult, I was also able to put that bit of information in context (with your help) and still manage find the article interesting. I did not feel the edifices of science or journalism crashing down on my head because of your temerity in writing about preliminary research.
Since it only took 3 minutes to read, I feel that my time was well spent to boot. Thank you.
2
So, obviously exercise is good for (so far as I know) everybody.
But it seems totally plausible that different forms of exercise are good and bad for different people.
I have run 4-6 days a week for 20 years, including marathons etc., with no "repetitive use" injuries yet (knock wood), while I know other people my age who have already suffered from those things and have had to cut back.
But about 10 years ago I tried to take up soccer again (I played as a kid) and I only made it about a year. It was just one thing after another--I would pull something in my leg, twist my ankle--got the first asthma attack I'd had since high school--and everyone else seemed fine, even though some of them were much older than me. It was like my body wasn't built for it. The exercise was so complicated and *intense* with all the sudden stopping and starting and switching directions, not like my daily jogs.
But it seems totally plausible that different forms of exercise are good and bad for different people.
I have run 4-6 days a week for 20 years, including marathons etc., with no "repetitive use" injuries yet (knock wood), while I know other people my age who have already suffered from those things and have had to cut back.
But about 10 years ago I tried to take up soccer again (I played as a kid) and I only made it about a year. It was just one thing after another--I would pull something in my leg, twist my ankle--got the first asthma attack I'd had since high school--and everyone else seemed fine, even though some of them were much older than me. It was like my body wasn't built for it. The exercise was so complicated and *intense* with all the sudden stopping and starting and switching directions, not like my daily jogs.
3
Correlation is not causation. This pattern could be explained by a model in which folks with better knees are the ones that keep running.
2
Overuse ("daily" anything is Not Wise, aside from eating, breathing, and sleep; a nice bowel movement too, but let's not digress too much).
Cross-train; always, and mix it up seasonally (and do the same with your diet).
Yoga, baby. Swim. Old fashioned push-ups when you don't want to do anything but know you ought. Do it all and like it.
Then eat doughnuts and laugh at all those "sugar is the devil!" people. Think I'll buy one tomorrow. Maybe two. One for each knee.
(And then 30 minutes of intervals on the (indoor) track the next day with 1.5 hours of spinning. Winter sucks.)
But move. Daily. That you should do. Even just walking.
(but walk for an hour, at least. 2 is better.)
Cross-train; always, and mix it up seasonally (and do the same with your diet).
Yoga, baby. Swim. Old fashioned push-ups when you don't want to do anything but know you ought. Do it all and like it.
Then eat doughnuts and laugh at all those "sugar is the devil!" people. Think I'll buy one tomorrow. Maybe two. One for each knee.
(And then 30 minutes of intervals on the (indoor) track the next day with 1.5 hours of spinning. Winter sucks.)
But move. Daily. That you should do. Even just walking.
(but walk for an hour, at least. 2 is better.)
1
Yet another in a seemingly endless series of silly science articles. Given the minuscule size of the study, it is absolutely impossible and irresponsible to try and draw any conclusions whatsoever. And to suggest that this highly questionable "result" might be generalizable and clinically relevant could only be described as an "alternative fact". I have the highest respect for the NYT, but it seems as if these articles are reviewed by people completely lacking in qualifications The author's m.o. seems to consist of reviewing a large number of third rate journals in hopes of finding something that can be foisted upon the naive. As I have said before, if the NYT doesn't care to hire a reviewer with some basic background in statistics, physiology, and medicine, I have no doubt that any number of qualified academics could be called upon to give an opinion about these "silly science" articles, and if they feel it is without merit, that it not be published. These articles are such a glaring exception to the high standards of the Times, that I find them truly painful. I know this rant may seem ridiculous in the context of our current political crisis--it's just the principle of the thing. J S, retired MD
2
Sorry, Gretchen, a sample size of six does not constitute "a growing body of research". The holes in this report, and in the sketchy, preliminary investigation offered as a study, boggle the mind.
Although the discussion might be worth having, NYT has failed its editing responsibilities in this piece.
Although the discussion might be worth having, NYT has failed its editing responsibilities in this piece.
It's best not to worry about all the nutrition and exercise people too much. I like hard workouts and running as much as I like steak and pizza and beer (though the former is harder to get off the ground) and will continue to indulge in both indefinitely
This should never have been reported except as an example of excessively small samples, poor controls and inductive bias. Six cases is not enough even to make a claim about COMP in blood or synovial fluid, much less what it means either in the short or long term. If you wish to see what happens to knees from running, then survey the knees of 2-3K persons of various age and experience.
1
Sure - much easier to do but then the study would be only correlational and would have to be statistically corrected (to the extent possible) for all the many variables differing across those people - years exercising, years running, running surface (most likely multiple across the years), etc. ad nauseum.
Sometimes smaller and better controlled studies are better - this one was just a bit TOO small but they recognized that - and it's fine in terms of an exploratory pilot to plan a better and larger future study.
I am 65, and used to run a fair bit. Knees have been fine, but calf and piriformis issues have caused me to tend more towards cycling. One point i would stress is that maintaining good strength in the muscles of the thigh goes a long way to stabilizing the knee and avoiding deterioration and pain.
2
I think it's time for Gretchen to go back to journalism school - and maybe get passing grades this time.
To add a point to the critical comments posted: The article is premised on the primary issue cited by regular runners - degenerative meniscus tears - then fails completely to address it.
Either this article is not up to NYT standards or the NYT is lowering its standards.
To add a point to the critical comments posted: The article is premised on the primary issue cited by regular runners - degenerative meniscus tears - then fails completely to address it.
Either this article is not up to NYT standards or the NYT is lowering its standards.
9
And what exactly does that critique have to do with the journalistic skill set this article's author, smart guy?
1
The limitations .of the study and the article are listed in the article. The article is explanatory and appropriate if one reads *and* thinks. Apparently your opinion of the typical NYT reader is pretty low.
1
I'm always amazed by the fact that many commentators think their anecdotal contributions actually contribute value to these health discussions.
To them: Please don't tell me how long you've been running, etc, and whether or not you developed arthritis, perhaps or perhaps not as a result. I promise that I will not regale you with my health history either.
To them: Please don't tell me how long you've been running, etc, and whether or not you developed arthritis, perhaps or perhaps not as a result. I promise that I will not regale you with my health history either.
15
We know all about your health history after the incident on Mustafar and the respirator and armored suit you were forced to wear.
2
Good to hear. Please next educate us on the effect of running on hips!
5
I suspect that if you are overweight and start a running program - and stay overweight (it's very possible) - you will harm your knees. A slender fit person who runs for years is not in the same category.
3
The article states that running is associated with relatively low body mass. It's in there, take note, large people may not experience the same "benefits".
Invest in a good pair of sneakers. KEEP MOVING !
4
I just love it when the medical profession advocates for something that could have (maybe?) detrimental effect on your body. After 16 years of ice hockey, 45+ years of running and tennis, and just about anything I could run or jump I can tell you it leaves the body with a lot of aches and pains as you get older.
I look wistfully at my generation that only started to exercise much later in life. They are in so much better health than myself who thought those miles at 7:30 per would do me a world of good later in life.
I look wistfully at my generation that only started to exercise much later in life. They are in so much better health than myself who thought those miles at 7:30 per would do me a world of good later in life.
12
Abusing your body in competitive sports is not the same as "running".
1
6? The sample size of this study is a complete joke. Such a short term observation of the knee is totally useless. Further, any observational study of "long-term runners" is majorly flawed by survivorship bias. The runners who have become crippled from pounding their knees into the concrete are not included in this study. Neither are the ones who were killed by running too much. It's sad that this basic level of junk science continues to be published in the mainstream media.
19
Cynic, the article was careful to discuss it's limitations. Even the final sentence reflects that. You sound like someone in the camp of science deniers.
Both of my parents were wracked with arthritis most of their adult lives and they did nothing in the way of walking or running for fitness. I am 65 years old and have been running since I was 15 years old as a member of my high school cross-country team. Obviously that proves nothing, especially to you, but it might suggest something and certainly is consistent with the study's small findings.
Both of my parents were wracked with arthritis most of their adult lives and they did nothing in the way of walking or running for fitness. I am 65 years old and have been running since I was 15 years old as a member of my high school cross-country team. Obviously that proves nothing, especially to you, but it might suggest something and certainly is consistent with the study's small findings.
15
@Cynic:
"Killed by running"? You couldn't even find 6 people to begin with for a study of those who have been "killed by running." Unless you mean killed by automobile accidents while running?
"Killed by running"? You couldn't even find 6 people to begin with for a study of those who have been "killed by running." Unless you mean killed by automobile accidents while running?
5
@Zygoma: There is nothing wrong with performing a preliminary study on a few volunteers. The biggest problem with this article is its prominent positioning, given the weakness of the study's result.
6
As someone who has had TKR in both knees, and lived out of two hand bags that I carried around the world for almost 4 years, I can tell you that the more wear and tear ( ie. "impact") the more damage you are going to do to your knee joints. Repeated impact and weight wears down the cartalige, and when that happens you have arthritis . To suggest otherwise, is just plain denial
13
@Jerry Howe:
Except the body has repair mechanisms to repair cartilage and build stronger joints and connective tissues. Why these fail in some people is a good question. We _require_ some impact and loading to have strong, healthy joints, bones, and muscles. Note what happens to the musculoskeletal systems of astronauts who go weeks or months without any joint loading. Obviously "too much" impact and weight can cause damage, but the definition of "too much" will vary by individual.
Except the body has repair mechanisms to repair cartilage and build stronger joints and connective tissues. Why these fail in some people is a good question. We _require_ some impact and loading to have strong, healthy joints, bones, and muscles. Note what happens to the musculoskeletal systems of astronauts who go weeks or months without any joint loading. Obviously "too much" impact and weight can cause damage, but the definition of "too much" will vary by individual.
8
I can believe all the negative comments- if you do not like to run or to lazy to get off the couch then shutup
6
Studies prove running does not help you lose weight. And it doesn't take science to figure out that smashing your knees 1000's of times a day on artificial pavement is not good. Running is bad for you, and every runner I've ever known has stopped due to injuries.
1
How mean you are - or sound, anyway.
I ran for more than 20 years. I quit when my knees preoccupied me with pain, discomfort, and noise. 15 years later, I still MISS running.
I walk, lots of people like me do that now. And, I always want to break into a run, but worry about what else will break.
Not running, and understanding the damage that it can do is not "negative comments", it is "feedback".
And there are a lot more involved in the feedback here than there were in the study written about.
I suggest you get off your whatever and get a book of etiquette. "Shutup" is not helpful or kind.
I ran for more than 20 years. I quit when my knees preoccupied me with pain, discomfort, and noise. 15 years later, I still MISS running.
I walk, lots of people like me do that now. And, I always want to break into a run, but worry about what else will break.
Not running, and understanding the damage that it can do is not "negative comments", it is "feedback".
And there are a lot more involved in the feedback here than there were in the study written about.
I suggest you get off your whatever and get a book of etiquette. "Shutup" is not helpful or kind.
16
Take a seat !
1
True, running may be good for your knees.
Or, running may not be good for your knees.
Or, not running may be good for your knees.
Or, not running may not be . . . . . .
Now, what did they say about eggs?
Or, running may not be good for your knees.
Or, not running may be good for your knees.
Or, not running may not be . . . . . .
Now, what did they say about eggs?
11
I just read an article in the LA Times about the swimmer, Diana Nyad. She advocates walking as the exercise almost anyone can do. Not running, walking. In fact, she has co-organized walking events around Southern California. What a breathe of fresh air in an exercise world that is tone deaf to non-runners. Thank you, Ms. Nyad!.
6
I'm always on the lookout for vested interest advertorials for the for-profit fitness industry
I glanced at this article a couple of days ago and didn't think more about it - but looking again today I noticed the headline's central words 'may be' - maybe ?
that's the basic principle of advertising - suggest benefits that cannot be proven - so in the absence of facts - just 'imagine' ...
sure - running may be good for the knees - but given most people ain't gonna take up running if they ain't done it much before - especially overweight or sedentary by preference or necessity - I revert back to 'another vested interest advertorial' ...
I glanced at this article a couple of days ago and didn't think more about it - but looking again today I noticed the headline's central words 'may be' - maybe ?
that's the basic principle of advertising - suggest benefits that cannot be proven - so in the absence of facts - just 'imagine' ...
sure - running may be good for the knees - but given most people ain't gonna take up running if they ain't done it much before - especially overweight or sedentary by preference or necessity - I revert back to 'another vested interest advertorial' ...
1
"Running May Be Good for Your Knees"
I impatiently await the future Well columns entitled "Drinking May Be Good for Your Liver" and "Studies Show Smoking Has a Positive Impact on Lung Health."
If you're going to study only those people whose bodies seem especially resistant to the damage common to runners, why not study their physiology, running style, chemistry, astral signs, etc. to determine what might be providing joint protection? That would be far more useful than this circular exercise.
I impatiently await the future Well columns entitled "Drinking May Be Good for Your Liver" and "Studies Show Smoking Has a Positive Impact on Lung Health."
If you're going to study only those people whose bodies seem especially resistant to the damage common to runners, why not study their physiology, running style, chemistry, astral signs, etc. to determine what might be providing joint protection? That would be far more useful than this circular exercise.
9
It is a sin to die with good mileage still left on your tires.
10
It's completely believable that running may build up cartilage in the knees.
But _only_ if the runner's weight is not too high.
If the runner's weight is beyond a certain point, even running with cushioned running shoes on dirt will not be enough to protect the knees from becoming damaged by the accumulated effects of impact.
This article fails to even mention the risk of running when one is too heavy.
There should be a law against publishing such dangerously misguided advice.
But _only_ if the runner's weight is not too high.
If the runner's weight is beyond a certain point, even running with cushioned running shoes on dirt will not be enough to protect the knees from becoming damaged by the accumulated effects of impact.
This article fails to even mention the risk of running when one is too heavy.
There should be a law against publishing such dangerously misguided advice.
12
Did you miss this part, "Some scientists have speculated that running may protect knees because it also often is associated with relatively low body mass. Carrying less weight is known to reduce the risk for knee arthritis."?
4
I find it very hard to believe that you actually build more cartalige over time. It wears out from age, overuse, and abuse. At that time you need a replacement material. At this point in time, you may need to alter your activities a little.
That includes no running. You will be just fine.
That includes no running. You will be just fine.
3
Very limited study with very limited generalizability. An N of only 6? What if the same experiment had been conducted with a non-impact sport like bicycling? And what if the results had been even more encouraging, suggesting that a non-impact sport which involved the knees generated even more of these "good" chemicals which stave off arthritis and other knee problems? Could we then conclude that cycling is better for the knees than running (which is commonly believed by experts to be the case)?
11
Yes, so frustrating that the control group is not really a control group. i.e. compare to 30 min of biking as you suggested, 30 min of walking or 30 min of swimming. This goes under the category of classic NYTimes stretching the science.
2
A headline run on this tiny of a study is irresponsible - I expect better science writing from this newspaper.
8
My word: another bad science complaint, coupled with a bad reporting complaint? A twofer!! Seriously, you suggest this research is supposed to remain secret information? The article is interesting and suggests some issues. If you want to continue sitting and barely moving...you think that is a good choice?
2
Sir - the commenter made no judgement about the efficacy of running, but rather that the article itself was not a responsible scientific study (the reason: only 6 sets of knees were the basis of the study) and that therefore the headline was unmerited (reason: big headline and conclusion for small research study). These points seem to reais reasonable objections. Your ad hominem attack of the writer, implying that s/he is someone who sits and barely moves, is totally inappropriate and negates the legitimacy of your criticismas a result.
2
Isn't the knee bone connected to the hip bone?
Did these "few" runners have any hip problems?
Too much information.
Too little knowledge.
Did these "few" runners have any hip problems?
Too much information.
Too little knowledge.
6
This just in: using the body for its intended purpose IAW its design specifications rather than resting on one's laurels or buttocks results in the maintenance of a healthier human. Story at 11.
5
The human body was not designed to run on mad-made surfaces like rock hard asphalt for hours on end.
Oy. Another "very small and short-term study." And we should be changing up your physical activity again because of this? I thought the medical community had come down on the side of realizing that running for most folks is NOT a good idea. Activity? Yes. Walk? Oh, yes. But running? Remember how and where most folks run: on surfaces that are NOT good and definitely not ideal. They're not running on tracks (per the photo), but on asphalt streets, uneven pavement, concrete sidewalks. Accidents waiting to happen.
2
68 years old, running for 50 years and my knees are fine. So are my ankles, legs and feet. I know I have trained my lower body to find the optimal gait, strengthened the muscles and tendons, and kept great blood flow to my lower extremities. As a side note I have bladder cancer and after the first round of chemo/radiation(6, 6 hour treatments and 38 radiation treatments), I was walking 2 miles a day within a week and half. Docs said it was because of my health from running.
13
It's people like you that keep me motivated! I am an avid runner, but currently am 36 weeks pregnant with 2nd child and body is just not agreeing with running so I am walking instead. But the double jogging stroller is bought and raring to go. I ran up until delivery with my first child. I always find you lifers to be an inspiration when out for a run. Long may you run!
3
I am a lifelong cycling enthusiast and have been primarily a road cyclist my entire adult life. I have had no knee problems from all those miles on the bike. Unless I was playing baseball, softball or a little touch football, I have followed the dictum of that great philosopher and pitcher, Satchel Paige, "Avoid running at all times."
Over the years I have had a number of runner friends, coworkers and clients, as they entered their mid-40s to early 50s, call me for advice about purchasing a decent bike. It seems that their knees had had it from the years of pounding they took and their doctors told them to ease off or quit altogether.
Yes, reader Nathan, I understand that running makes folks "feel soooo much better when they run" and indeed "helps" their energy level." But so does some dedicated bike riding (and not necessarily being a roadie) and one day some of those kids will have to make that switch as older adults. Or, better yet, cut back the running to a reasonable degree and mix in some cycling. Their knees will thank them.
Over the years I have had a number of runner friends, coworkers and clients, as they entered their mid-40s to early 50s, call me for advice about purchasing a decent bike. It seems that their knees had had it from the years of pounding they took and their doctors told them to ease off or quit altogether.
Yes, reader Nathan, I understand that running makes folks "feel soooo much better when they run" and indeed "helps" their energy level." But so does some dedicated bike riding (and not necessarily being a roadie) and one day some of those kids will have to make that switch as older adults. Or, better yet, cut back the running to a reasonable degree and mix in some cycling. Their knees will thank them.
10
@RDG:
Some people get joint and lower back problems from cycling. Some people get joint problems from running. If your runner friends are "pounding" then perhaps there is a technique issue?
Some people get joint and lower back problems from cycling. Some people get joint problems from running. If your runner friends are "pounding" then perhaps there is a technique issue?
One problem with cycling: when you fall it really, really hurts. And I found out that growing old does not lessen pain. After 3 falls I gave it up and I just love my fitness club!
Cycling is a great form of exercise. Now if we could just do something about the cars.
1
I am 66 and have been running all my life beginning with the 50 yard dash at our 4th of July community picnics as a child and still do. After 9 marathons and many half-marathons and short races, my knees are fine. I prefer to stand than sit. I feel strong and have had no knee issues. I have found that the addition of yoga in the last 2 years has helped my running and has lengthened the muscles that were getting tight from running. I feel very lucky!
9
You are running on borrowed time.
3
"Better to wear out than to rust out." Unknown author
9
Benjamin Franklin.
That's a rather silly article about a study in six subjects. Statistical significance?
The NYT article doesn't say much about the difference between osteoarthritis and rheumatoid arthritis. OA is a joint's response to injury, often repeated injury. RA is an autoimmune condition and if it's attacked your knees (both), it's probably attacked your hips, ankles, wrists, elbows, shoulders, and some or all of your spine. All of those spots probably won't all be miserable on the same days, but running is probably going to be painful.
I kept good mobility and range of motion (including full splits and lotus position) into my middle 50s with gentle yoga (no headstands), but each of us with RA will reach a point where we cannot pretend we no longer mind the pain. Listen to your body.
Find out whether you have OA or RA, the condition of the cartilage and ligaments in your knees, and if your rheumatologist agrees, start slowly with running or walking. Why a rheumatologist instead of an orthopedist? Orthopedists are surgeons. Rheumatologists will try less invasive treatments and will let you know if and when you should see an orthopedist. Avoid surgery if you can.
The NYT article doesn't say much about the difference between osteoarthritis and rheumatoid arthritis. OA is a joint's response to injury, often repeated injury. RA is an autoimmune condition and if it's attacked your knees (both), it's probably attacked your hips, ankles, wrists, elbows, shoulders, and some or all of your spine. All of those spots probably won't all be miserable on the same days, but running is probably going to be painful.
I kept good mobility and range of motion (including full splits and lotus position) into my middle 50s with gentle yoga (no headstands), but each of us with RA will reach a point where we cannot pretend we no longer mind the pain. Listen to your body.
Find out whether you have OA or RA, the condition of the cartilage and ligaments in your knees, and if your rheumatologist agrees, start slowly with running or walking. Why a rheumatologist instead of an orthopedist? Orthopedists are surgeons. Rheumatologists will try less invasive treatments and will let you know if and when you should see an orthopedist. Avoid surgery if you can.
10
These are all 30 year olds! Ask aging NYT health writer Jane Brody how her knees are doing now after decades of writing enthusiastic descriptions of her exercise routine: now she writes about knee pain and knee remedies. II'm an admirer of her work -- and I wish she had been more careful -- but the lesson seems clear.
8
Another good article; carefully reported. Experiments on non-fatal (and non-commercializable) issues are always difficult. Low funding and many more restrictions than experiments on metal oxides or gluons. Also, general appreciation is difficult since the public wants probabilities of only zero or one and scientists recognize all probabilities except zero and one.
5
I'm a 65 year old, who has been a recreational to semi-competive runner for the last forty years. While I haven't run in a competitive race since 2006, a half marathon, I still run several times a week, mostly on treadmills during the winter. As runners go, I'm a fairly big guy, six feet two, and around 205 pounds currently. I really want to believe that running is at least a part of my never having knee, or other joint problems.
Or might it be just good genes? So many variables.
Or might it be just good genes? So many variables.
5
Thank you very much for this article. I am Exhibit A of a long term runner who logged many miles. I had many knee surgeries to just my left knee because of squash and tennis injuries, not running. I recently had a total knee replacement but it turns out there is plenty of cartilage and no joint damage to my right knee, only the one with the racquet-sports damage. I am hoping to run some, on some surfaces, after my full recovery.
4
Am an 80 year old male. Still running (as well as tennis and some golf) 2 to 3 times a week with no knee problems. Body mass stats probably the key - 5'8"/140lbs. No meds. Very aware of my genetics luck.
Even without that, it can be a great life if you stick at what you can manage. Good luck all.
Even without that, it can be a great life if you stick at what you can manage. Good luck all.
Some kids on the block behind me said that they feel soooo much better when they run. There are SEVEN of them! It's not just their knees, but it helps their energy level, and it strengthens their friendship, too. They asked me to write and tell you about this. They've heard about your health and science reporting, and they figured you'd want to know.
16
There is actually pretty good evidence that if you take someone with a non-surgical knee (i.e. no prior meniscal tear, ACL tear s/p repair, etc) that long-term running is not detrimental and perhaps even protective.
HOWEVER, if one has preexisting knee damage of the kind mentioned above, running is almost certainly detrimental. This has been demonstrated through multiple observational studies. What's problematic is that many of these injuries are subclinical. I myself had a partial tear in my L ACL that was only recognized when I fully ruptured my R ACL (after years of intense soccer) - luckily my menisci have been spared. So a large portion of these anecdotally observed runners-requiring-early replacement may have had unbeknownst surgical knees being exposed to running. Additionally I'm sure a number had known injuries that felt better after use (as early osteoarthritis usually does) and continued to run anyway only to have wrecked knees later on.
I enjoy using my body and I'll probably need replacements later. At least enjoying it and staying active will keep me in the shape to be able to have that surgery done at an older age.
HOWEVER, if one has preexisting knee damage of the kind mentioned above, running is almost certainly detrimental. This has been demonstrated through multiple observational studies. What's problematic is that many of these injuries are subclinical. I myself had a partial tear in my L ACL that was only recognized when I fully ruptured my R ACL (after years of intense soccer) - luckily my menisci have been spared. So a large portion of these anecdotally observed runners-requiring-early replacement may have had unbeknownst surgical knees being exposed to running. Additionally I'm sure a number had known injuries that felt better after use (as early osteoarthritis usually does) and continued to run anyway only to have wrecked knees later on.
I enjoy using my body and I'll probably need replacements later. At least enjoying it and staying active will keep me in the shape to be able to have that surgery done at an older age.
10
How about running and dancing? I did both about 35 years ago and thought my knees would turn into jelly. Glad I stopped running and kept dancing.
3
I'm sorry but this is rather silly. No one develops osteoarthritis after a single run. That's kind of like expecting to see evidence of chronic traumatic encephalopathy after the first football game. Or obesity after a single hamburger.
5
I stopped running at 55, arthritis made it too painful. why didn't the study examine the effects of running on arthritic knees, or pick a population that is prone to arthritis? studying top end of gene pool in athletes proves nothing but how lucky the subjects were.
13
I am 80 years old. Everyone who knows me knows that I would always rather stand than sit down. I would prefer trotting around to standing still. My knees are better if I keep them exercised. Ten days walking up and down Ragusa Sicily had them feeling really great. I think I should go back.
7
Headlining grabbing waste of an article, it's specific to each persons physiology.
13
Thank you.
3
I started running after recovering from a knee injury from skiing. I thought that strengthening my leg muscles, improving my alignment by working on running form, and stretching and rolling the IT bands in conjunction with might help prevent further injuries. So I'm only an n of one, but, after several years and a couple of marathons, my knees have never felt better.
2
I use to run 6 miles every day, until 2 miles out one day my knee gave out. Torn meniscus. Got it fixed. I've been fine ever since. I stopped running.
7
Not hard to believe, I've logged over 30,000 miles and have gone through my share of injuries including Piriformis Syndrome. That hurt but was treatable, while at the same time too, my knees have never been a problem.
3
I am a clinical statistician by trade - use stats on clinical trial data day in and day out. The most important thing when beginning a study is to make sure you will have enough 'subjects' to conclusively draw statistical inferences. This so-called study ended up having a disappointing 6 'data points'. I do not want to discredit the study, but 6 ? On the other hand, NYT - this is sub par. At this rate I/anyone can be a columnist just by perusing insignificant studies in science journals. I shall be wary of what Gretchen Reynolds writes in the future.
I just re-read the title of the article and cringed. It hurts (not in the knee).
I just re-read the title of the article and cringed. It hurts (not in the knee).
22
But the point is that all that information is DISCLOSED, not hidden. The point is that people need to get information and then think. And think for themselves. And Ms. reynolds may not have written the headline.
2
Hogwash! My knees are crippled from years of running. They don't call it runner's knee for nothing. The cartilage in your knees breaks down and your knees get weak and full of pain. I can't walk more than a block or two without stopping to stretch and rest. I can't stand for more than two or three minutes without intense pain. I used to run five miles a day and more on weekends. Never run on concrete or asphalt.
16
"runner's knee"....In the vernacular of runners, runner's knee means something completely different. It refers to a pain at the side of the knee joint which occurs when a runner moves up too quickly in speed or distance. It is easily ameliorated by backing off for a couple of weeks to the runners previous speed or distance, and confers no permanent harm to the joint.
4
As you read the comments, there are plenty of folks who haven't experienced knee problems running while other folks like yourself have experienced knee problems running. My personal experience has shown that heel striking was responsible for the knee issues I have had running. I stopped heel striking 7 years ago and now forefoot strike. No more knee problems. It was that simple for me. I also run marathons.
8
Ditto! 78 years old now and I have to virtually crawl up & down the 14 stairs in our home. 3 marathons& 40+ foot races did me in
3
At age 25, I injured meniscus cartilages in both knees. Treatment was non-surgical; quadriceps strengthening allowed normal function. Subsequently, I trained and competed in race walking for many years with no side effects or limitation due to my imperfect cartilages. I was never able to run however; running caused pain and swelling. For those with known cartilage injuries, race walking may be preferable.
11
People who look upon running as some kind of punishment for their sinful lifestyle will always be prone to injury. Meanwhile those of us with a good attitude who look forward every day to the fresh air and changing seasons find our joints growing stronger as we stride into old age. Attitude always trumps health science, though I am grateful for scraps of evidence which confirm what I already know.
5
People tell how great running is to stay fit and I always reply, "Oh, I'm sure, but my knees are bad, so I can't run." Thanks a lot for taking away my excuse.
But wait! I'll take a page from this year's election cycle and proclaim that I just flat out don't believe any of this.
Whew. I feel better...
But wait! I'll take a page from this year's election cycle and proclaim that I just flat out don't believe any of this.
Whew. I feel better...
13
"... the scientists wound up with complete numbers from only six of the runners."
Sounds fantastic and conclusive.
Sounds fantastic and conclusive.
17
Perhaps accounting for the use of "may" in the article.
1
And all the subjects were under 30. Nothing to indicate a benefit for the 45 year-old guy who suddenly wants to train for marathons and do 50 mile bike rides on weekends. Running may be protective for younger people without osteoarthritis and an existing history of running, but certainly can provoke knee problems in previously untrained, older, beginning runners, Anecdotal evidence points to nice business for orthopedic surgeons.
5
instead of 'may' they shouldn't have published this. It's irresponsible journalism. certain people look at the headline and think oh hey I'm injured but running may be good for my knee so I'll keep at it. A study of 6 means that Gretchen should have looked for more info.
3
Tale from the cadavers of runners: "Don't run, use elipticals," said a family friend after three months of dissecting cadavers as part of a doctoral program to become an occupational therapist. "We know a lot about these people. The runners's joints were in lousy condition. Joints of the more sedentary people were normal-to-good."
5
@John:
How were the muscles, hearts, arteries, bone density, etc, of the sedentary people?
Some people run their entire lives and their joints are stronger for it. Some people have running injuries, or just don't like running, and do other exercises. Any exercise is better for the body (and the joints!) than being sedentary.
How were the muscles, hearts, arteries, bone density, etc, of the sedentary people?
Some people run their entire lives and their joints are stronger for it. Some people have running injuries, or just don't like running, and do other exercises. Any exercise is better for the body (and the joints!) than being sedentary.
1
What do you mean by "runners?" And what do you mean by "use ellipticals?" BTW, it's good to hear about your family friend. Everyone is a scientist in the NYT.
5
I'm an experienced triathlete (30 years, 61 races, three more this year), age 58, who has no trouble running but get all kinds of leg discomfort, including knee issues, when sitting at my desk or in tight theater or airplane seats. There seems to be no correlation between training and races and knee discomfort. Stretching, standing and walking around alleviates the pain.
7
Why do these studies get a news write up in NYT? This is a small study published in a low impact journal. There are far greater scientific and medical strides forward in Cell, Nature, and Science every week. These articles should be brought to the public attention.
21
Right, and this kind of misuse of statistics is what is undermining the confidence of the general public in statistics and science.
Shame on you, NYT.
Shame on you, NYT.
28
This is an excellent article. The research is clearly exploratory in an area that has next to nothing already published. The common refrain that running will wreck your knees simply does not explain why so many of us can get into our 70s and have healthier joints than the more sedentary in their 40s.
This study did not settle any issues at all, and Ms. Reynolds and the researchers make that very clear, but it does suggest a possible mechanism to explain why so many marathoners from the 70's and 80's are not in wheelchairs today.
The negative comments on the nature of the study and on Ms. Reynold's reporting are goofy and show a lack of understanding of the research in human performance. There simply is not much money around to work with large samples of people over long periods of time under controlled conditions in this field. Most of what we "know" about training and performance is based on small studies and the limited experiences of athletes and coaches. That's not great science, but it's what we have.
Scientists now have a possible mechanism to study. A few more studies with small sample sizes are the best we can hope for.
This study did not settle any issues at all, and Ms. Reynolds and the researchers make that very clear, but it does suggest a possible mechanism to explain why so many marathoners from the 70's and 80's are not in wheelchairs today.
The negative comments on the nature of the study and on Ms. Reynold's reporting are goofy and show a lack of understanding of the research in human performance. There simply is not much money around to work with large samples of people over long periods of time under controlled conditions in this field. Most of what we "know" about training and performance is based on small studies and the limited experiences of athletes and coaches. That's not great science, but it's what we have.
Scientists now have a possible mechanism to study. A few more studies with small sample sizes are the best we can hope for.
11
Maybe it's bending the knees that is good for the knees.
5
Running ruined my knees, and jeopardized my vertebrae. Walking is way better, and less dangerous. But, I DO miss the high.
6
OK, I have have a lifelong bias toward health and fitness, and running has been my main exercise practice for 60 years. I also for the things I do daily within my community (errands, meetings, etc.)
I have had concerns about having healthy knees in my 80s and 90s. I figure a healthy lifestyle and genetics are the foundations, but will I injure my knees by running? I have taken a cursory look into the research, but relied mostly on paying attention to my own experience: What do my knees tell me? How does it test against the research and statistics?
My knees are healthier and more flexible now than they were 20 years ago, when I started including deep knee bends to my activities. They are fully recovered from Lyme Disease (I could barely walk before diagnosis and immediate treatment.)
I acknowledge most of the critical points made about Ms. Reynolds' presentation of science, but I also find the article quite useful and appropriate — it indicates a possible direction of research as well as for ways to hypothesize about how exercise may benefit knees, and then to continue to test hypotheses. To present or read this as a assertion of fact about running and positive knee health, rather than as what science is exploring and learning, is short-sighted and, I feel, overly dismissive.
If this study had been the opposite, well I'd likely have expected more contextualizing with the range of relevant studies and statistics.
I have had concerns about having healthy knees in my 80s and 90s. I figure a healthy lifestyle and genetics are the foundations, but will I injure my knees by running? I have taken a cursory look into the research, but relied mostly on paying attention to my own experience: What do my knees tell me? How does it test against the research and statistics?
My knees are healthier and more flexible now than they were 20 years ago, when I started including deep knee bends to my activities. They are fully recovered from Lyme Disease (I could barely walk before diagnosis and immediate treatment.)
I acknowledge most of the critical points made about Ms. Reynolds' presentation of science, but I also find the article quite useful and appropriate — it indicates a possible direction of research as well as for ways to hypothesize about how exercise may benefit knees, and then to continue to test hypotheses. To present or read this as a assertion of fact about running and positive knee health, rather than as what science is exploring and learning, is short-sighted and, I feel, overly dismissive.
If this study had been the opposite, well I'd likely have expected more contextualizing with the range of relevant studies and statistics.
2
Seriously, why report a study that collected data from 6 people, that's patently absurd and not even science.
19
Yes, activity will keep joints strong. However, most people have over time developed small, even microscopic changes in their postural alignments, resulting in abnormal joint mechanics. Thus, typical activity/exercise will result in abnormal forces through a joint, which means the joint is not functioning as it was designed to work, resulting in excessive wear to aspects of the joint surfaces. Theoretically, since we are living, breathing beings, our physiology is designed to restore our bodies, in this case to regenerate the integrity of the joint surfaces. But, if the degenerative influences ultimately outpace the rejuvenation processes, then inflammation develops.
Nutrition also plays an important role in our bodies' regenerative powers. The standard American diet is woefully inadequate in supplying the nutrients required to rebuild our joint surfaces, even contributing to inflammation. Nutrient deficient processed foods, too much sugar, inadequate hydration...the list goes on, just don't support the physiological, healing processes. This malnourished state, over time, also contributes to other degenerative processes our bodies' other systems, ie. endocrine, nervous (the brain), immune. If we can't properly replenish the "ingredients" needed for these constant regenerative processes, over time we'll wear down faster than our genetics may have dictated.
Nutrition also plays an important role in our bodies' regenerative powers. The standard American diet is woefully inadequate in supplying the nutrients required to rebuild our joint surfaces, even contributing to inflammation. Nutrient deficient processed foods, too much sugar, inadequate hydration...the list goes on, just don't support the physiological, healing processes. This malnourished state, over time, also contributes to other degenerative processes our bodies' other systems, ie. endocrine, nervous (the brain), immune. If we can't properly replenish the "ingredients" needed for these constant regenerative processes, over time we'll wear down faster than our genetics may have dictated.
4
As previously noted, the surface you run on, along withthe way you run is of huge impact.
;)
;)
5
This study makes sense to me. I have been a short distance runner ( 4 miles a week ) for the last forty years. At age 61 I started having mild knee troubles. For an unrelated health problem I became a "Forks over Knives" kind-of near-vegan. My knee problems disappeared slowly over a year. I'm back to running 4 miles a week.
I think the synovial fluid exchange is improved when you stop eating meat and dairy. I like to see a study of synovial fluids in vegans v. carnivores.
I think the synovial fluid exchange is improved when you stop eating meat and dairy. I like to see a study of synovial fluids in vegans v. carnivores.
3
@Tom Brown:
The vast majority of athletes in all sports are omnivores. Very few people are strictly carnivores. By what mechanism do you propose meat and/or dairy to affect the synovial fluid? And how would you separate effects of meat or dairy from numerous other dietary and lifestyle factors?
The vast majority of athletes in all sports are omnivores. Very few people are strictly carnivores. By what mechanism do you propose meat and/or dairy to affect the synovial fluid? And how would you separate effects of meat or dairy from numerous other dietary and lifestyle factors?
6 People!? I'm sorry, but this is not news. It's barely even science. If one of my 8th grade science students submitted this as their science project, they'd get no better than a B+ with that small of a sample size.
19
"Running" can mean a lot of different things. Form and technique vary, mileage varies, also intensity, distance vs. sprinting, trails vs. pavement, etc. It's a little silly to say that "running" in general is good or bad, because there are so many different ways to do it.
5
I have knocked-knees and have had to work with them all my life. I call this my "structural engineering fate" and have quit trying to fight it. I fall down when I run but I do swimmingly well when I dance, lift free weights or jump on the elliptical. Amputees are my greatest role models for the "going with what you got!"philosophy that I've adopted. If they can "make a basket" without legs, then I can certainly get over my imperfect knees!
2
For whose knees? Not mine.
3
I am an aging runner who has completed 35 NYC Marathons, 6 other marathons and, literally, hundreds of other races. Despite the dire warnings and questions that I have received over the years regarding the adverse effects of running on the knees, I have always maintained (somewhat, facetiously, I thought) that "running is bad for the knees of people who are prone to knee injuries from running. And, if you are one of those and you persist in running, you will injure your knees." I have always considered myself lucky that I wasn't one of those and my body continued to let me do what I wanted. Now, however, in my 70s, my knees have let me down (my left knee, anyway) and for the first time since since 1977, I was not able to run the NYCM. Did the running do it? I have friends who have had knee replacements who never ran a step in their lives. So, who knows?
8
There seems to be too many variables here. Everybody's physique is different. Running shoes are different. Running styles are different. People can get slightly injured without knowing it, and that leads to something else.
I have found that weight bearing exercise to strengthen the muscles above and below the knee has helped a lot. As with many other things, do it moderately and if it starts to hurt, slow down or stop. Just like a car with 300,000 miles, you can get there as long as you don't push it too hard along the way. I don't think this is rocket science, it's just the common sense of being an amateur athlete and knowing how to listen to your body instead of your ego.
I have found that weight bearing exercise to strengthen the muscles above and below the knee has helped a lot. As with many other things, do it moderately and if it starts to hurt, slow down or stop. Just like a car with 300,000 miles, you can get there as long as you don't push it too hard along the way. I don't think this is rocket science, it's just the common sense of being an amateur athlete and knowing how to listen to your body instead of your ego.
1
As a long distance runner in my distant youth I found the main difference was the surface. Most of my running was on grass (not that kind!) or cross-country. When I competed on tarmac or other unyielding surfaces I would notice the difference in my knee and hip joints.
Now in my '60s, all my old injuries and joint issues are coming home to roost.
Now in my '60s, all my old injuries and joint issues are coming home to roost.
1
All baloney. There seems to be a cult in journalism that promotes the opposite of the intuitive and logical. It all reminds me of adolescents rejecting whatever their parents say is true. Indeed, I have seen articles arguing that smoking, heavy drinking, fast food, lack of sleep, etc. may be good for some people. I can imagine that is true for a some limited number of people. But do we need articles that legitimize these crazy ideas as universal truths? Serves nobody.
6
Please provide some citations for articles in legitimate papers and journals that claim "smoking, heavy drinking, fast food, ... may be good some for people. And while the need for sleep hours may decline over a lifetime, I doubt you can find an article that says lack of sleep as such is healthy. Not does this article claim to present a "universal truth." While there may be a "cult" about to set up in the White House that makes up its own evidence ("thousands of cheering Muslims," etc), I think you can do better.
1
Why are these ideas crazy?
2
I'm a retired machine designer. I think it would be helpful to look at the knee (and the ankle and foot) as mechanical devices. Any mechanical device is subject to loads of various kinds. There are steady, constant loads, and there are sudden impact loads. The steady loads wear the bearing surfaces. The impact loads send shock waves through all the components in addition to the bearing wear. Running consists of leaving the ground and falling back to earth sending a shock wave up the leg. Walking is similar, with a much gentler impact. Bicycling applies a steady, smooth motion, with almost no impact. The amount of load depends very much on bodyweight; a heavier person applies a much greater impact load than a lighter person and there fore would suffer greater damage.
In sum, the most potentially damaging exercise is running, the least damaging is bicycling. There are variables such as bodyweight, running style and genetic variables such as general body structure. This study was woefully lacking in allowing for these, and such a tiny sample size makes any results scarcely better than guesswork.
In sum, the most potentially damaging exercise is running, the least damaging is bicycling. There are variables such as bodyweight, running style and genetic variables such as general body structure. This study was woefully lacking in allowing for these, and such a tiny sample size makes any results scarcely better than guesswork.
3
Not sure I personally agree, for a few reasons. Only 6 subjects were involved; hardly a comprehensive study. Sometimes just knowing basic anatomy, which body parts are used during a workout - running or another - and throwing in a huge amount of common sense, can afford the greatest chance to keep one's body injury free. Having said this, repetitive motion is not healthy for any joint. But there are proven means to prolong the healthy and pain free use of not only joints, but bones, muscles, and tendons. The article failed to include the huge benefits, in progression, of proper gear, warming up, cross-training (maintaining proper form), strength dry land weight training
(proper form while using free weights or machines), listening to your body, cooling down, and the always-ignored post workout stretching.
(proper form while using free weights or machines), listening to your body, cooling down, and the always-ignored post workout stretching.
2
What is this, Fake News, Physiology Division? Gretchen Reynolds is once again taking a ridiculous piece of research fluff - 15 people! - and blowing it into an article. It's a pattern with this columnist. As the doc himself says, "this was a very small and short-term study". Definitely not worthy of the headline : Running May Be Good for Your Knees. That is misleading, and very likely not true.
5
I had knee and lower back problems since my early 20s. After starting running in my early 40s, neither improved for a time, until I researched proper running technique. There are a few schools, the Pose Method and Chi Running being the most popular. I read a book about the latter, employed its methods, and as a result I finished five marathons, and have never had a problem with knees or back since.
When I was starting running, I was told by my doctors to avoid "high impact" exercise, and take up something like bicycling. While this is probably good generic advice, in my case doing the research and learning proper technique changed my life.
When I was starting running, I was told by my doctors to avoid "high impact" exercise, and take up something like bicycling. While this is probably good generic advice, in my case doing the research and learning proper technique changed my life.
1
For a runner this sounds great. But from my anecdotal experience, the people that I know who have had to have their knees replaced have all been athletes especially runners.
Maybe this study should be subject to more scrutiny or I have been associating with an anomaly of athletes endowed with bad genes.
Maybe this study should be subject to more scrutiny or I have been associating with an anomaly of athletes endowed with bad genes.
2
While I'm a lifelong runner and certainly believe running's benefits far outweigh its risks, this type of article is what's wrong with so much medical and health reporting.
A study with 15 people and results from only 6 people? Give me a break. These results are utterly meaningless.
I could find you six people who think the moon is made of cheese. Would you write a story headlined "Moon May Be Made of Cheese?"
C'mon, NYT, you're better than this.
A study with 15 people and results from only 6 people? Give me a break. These results are utterly meaningless.
I could find you six people who think the moon is made of cheese. Would you write a story headlined "Moon May Be Made of Cheese?"
C'mon, NYT, you're better than this.
7
I see selection bias in this study. All participants were already runners and already had healthy knees. And the population was small, very small. So it doesn't tell us much about the general population.
4
The article boasts a whopping 6 participants who actually completed the study and then only "most of them" demonstrated the findings put forth to prove that running is good for your knees. Clearly further research needs to be done on a larger scale before publishing these kinds of "facts"
2
A long term (many decades!) study by Dr. Fries of Stanford on runners vs. non-runners has already proven that running doesn't harm knees.
When Fries and his team began this research in 1984, many scientists thought vigorous exercise would do older folks more harm than good. Some feared the long-term effect of the then-new jogging craze would be floods of orthopedic injuries, with older runners permanently hobbled by their exercise habit.
....
Fries' team began tracking 538 runners over age 50, comparing them to a similar group of nonrunners. The subjects, now in their 70s and 80s, have answered yearly questionnaires about their ability to perform everyday activities such as walking, dressing and grooming, getting out of a chair and gripping objects.
But so far, the effect of running on delaying death has also been more dramatic than the scientists expected. Not surprisingly, running has slowed cardiovascular deaths. However, it has also been associated with fewer early deaths from cancer, neurological disease, infections and other causes.
Fries published a companion paper in the August issue of the American Journal of Preventive Medicine showing running was not associated with greater rates of osteoarthritis in their elderly runners. Runners also do not require more total knee replacements than nonrunners, Fries said.
for more see the published article:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3175643/
When Fries and his team began this research in 1984, many scientists thought vigorous exercise would do older folks more harm than good. Some feared the long-term effect of the then-new jogging craze would be floods of orthopedic injuries, with older runners permanently hobbled by their exercise habit.
....
Fries' team began tracking 538 runners over age 50, comparing them to a similar group of nonrunners. The subjects, now in their 70s and 80s, have answered yearly questionnaires about their ability to perform everyday activities such as walking, dressing and grooming, getting out of a chair and gripping objects.
But so far, the effect of running on delaying death has also been more dramatic than the scientists expected. Not surprisingly, running has slowed cardiovascular deaths. However, it has also been associated with fewer early deaths from cancer, neurological disease, infections and other causes.
Fries published a companion paper in the August issue of the American Journal of Preventive Medicine showing running was not associated with greater rates of osteoarthritis in their elderly runners. Runners also do not require more total knee replacements than nonrunners, Fries said.
for more see the published article:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3175643/
7
I wonder if there can be a similar effect in ankles. I was nervous before a backpacking trip because I had recently recovered from sprains in both ankles. But it seemed like a week of hiking was like intensive but pleasurable physical therapy. No pain; all gain. My ankles loved it. It was therapeutic rather than harmful.
1
Running on a treadmill is vastly different from running on pavement. Huge difference in shock absorption!
1
Risky procedure, pulling synovial fluid from the knee. A septic joint (infected joint) is a potentially devastating condition.
1
The research and this article is misleading. The article is confusing association with causation. The research shows an association with running and lower osteoarthritis. However, it could be that people who run are simply lighter and it is the lighter weight that is better for their knees. The research should control for body weight. In addition, people who run simply do so because they experience no or little pain including knee pain. So in that respect, the running population may be self-selective and not representative of the overall population. Finally, people who run tend to be health conscious, and probably look after themselves in all spheres of life. They might be active in other areas, more so than non runners.
These would need to be investigated as potential explainers.
My advice is that if you find it painful to run, then walk. Move. Moving just 5-10 minutes an hour is terrific for us.
These would need to be investigated as potential explainers.
My advice is that if you find it painful to run, then walk. Move. Moving just 5-10 minutes an hour is terrific for us.
2
This article is funny, I don't need a study to tell me. Everytime I get the whim to start running, my knees scream at me. The pain lasts for days or more and then I once again give in to the obvious: if I still plan on being able to walk, I better stop running.
2
The error most people make when they take up running is that they start too fast and quit too soon. If you have not been running regularly it is important to start very gradually and work up to distance and speed slowly. If you want to run a marathon for instance, the necessary preparation should take years, not weeks or months.
3
Of course knee joints benefit from activity. But excessive arduous activity can wear them out. You only put your knees at risk if you ignore warning signs of overuse. Some people are genetically advantaged and have knees less likely to wear out. Others aren't so lucky. Gentle (no rough terrain, no steep descents) running on a good surface with expensive shoes is probably safer for the knees than people think. Bicycling, even safer for knees. A lot of knee issues arise when people who are out of shape or overweight try to do too much too soon, especially too much running.
2
"But excessive arduous activity can wear them out."....If you are referring to car parts the concept of wearing out from arduous use is valid. However, every evidence suggests that when it comes to biological components, the more you use them the stronger they become. There is no analogy.
2
I agree with readers below, how is this even suggestive of a change in COMP? It could have easily been sampling error - only results from six people! It's suggestive at best.
4
If we talking about One's health
Only One thing and just One thing matters
GENES you inherited
That's it !
Only One thing and just One thing matters
GENES you inherited
That's it !
1
@Cheikh:
So... smoking cigarettes doesn't matter?
So... smoking cigarettes doesn't matter?
Utterly untrue!
Genes give you the raw material. What you do with that material matters very much.
2
Not for anything but this is just one study. If any of this is to be taken as possible truth, the we need these results corroborated by at least two more studies otherwise it is very much suspect. All these one time studies are to be taken with a grain salt as time after time they have often been refuted by other studies. The press should demand corroborated studies or stop printing this stuff. Bad studies can have harmful effects on folks who take them at face value.
3
All running is not the same. Running on pavement puts very different stress on the knees than running on a wooden gym floor, a running track, packed dirt or grass.
It is well known that floors with some give to them in factories result in less back, hip, knee and foot pain compared to concrete because of the give those surfaces allow. In running, that would be magnified by some considerable amount.
I walk 5 miles a day- rain or shine, hot or cold, holiday or workday. I feel the difference between walking on the asphalt of my residential street, the running track at our High School, grass in parks, dirt trails, and the indoor running track at my YMCA and it is considerable. Add that up over time, it has to make a huge difference.
Having spent the last 30 years doing CT Scans, X-Rays and MRIs for a living, I have counted more than a few runners among my patients. Early in my career, I worked in a large Army Medical Center on a training installation where thousands of troops were running daily in Army PT and some much more on their own, which means I have seen and talked to a lot of runners and injured runners.
Walking will get you there, will burn calories, will exercise the joints, etc. just like running- with significantly lower impact on the joints. We do need to be active, but many cannot run and other probably should not run. My suggestion would be to ask your Doctor what is right for you and your situation, but find a way to move.
It is well known that floors with some give to them in factories result in less back, hip, knee and foot pain compared to concrete because of the give those surfaces allow. In running, that would be magnified by some considerable amount.
I walk 5 miles a day- rain or shine, hot or cold, holiday or workday. I feel the difference between walking on the asphalt of my residential street, the running track at our High School, grass in parks, dirt trails, and the indoor running track at my YMCA and it is considerable. Add that up over time, it has to make a huge difference.
Having spent the last 30 years doing CT Scans, X-Rays and MRIs for a living, I have counted more than a few runners among my patients. Early in my career, I worked in a large Army Medical Center on a training installation where thousands of troops were running daily in Army PT and some much more on their own, which means I have seen and talked to a lot of runners and injured runners.
Walking will get you there, will burn calories, will exercise the joints, etc. just like running- with significantly lower impact on the joints. We do need to be active, but many cannot run and other probably should not run. My suggestion would be to ask your Doctor what is right for you and your situation, but find a way to move.
5
@David Gregory
I always have found walking on asphalt uncomfortable. That's the reason why I love walking in the woods, aside from enjoying nature and cleaner air.
I always have found walking on asphalt uncomfortable. That's the reason why I love walking in the woods, aside from enjoying nature and cleaner air.
Sample of 15 runners under 30, absurd to suggest that provides a basis for any conclusions. As a former runner (30-50 miles/week) who is married to a former runner, we would challenge the conclusion that running promotes healthy knees. I have had surgery on both knees and my wife just had total knee replacement of her right knee. Our orthopedic surgeons (who practice in one of the top orthopedic practices in the country) strongly discourage running post-surgery and see a clear connection between intensive running and arthritic, damaged knees.
7
whenever I get stiff or sore the best thing I can do for myself is move....I would think that knees like other joints stiffen with age and the lack of estrogen (for women) etc. and that use remains critical for all of our joints/muscles. Move, move, move. (and participate in your democracy!)
1
Even if runners' blood and synovial fluid are perfectly fine (which is questionable, given the study's tiny size, as the article noted), it is not clear that running doesn't "wear away the cartilage," which was mentioned as the greatest threat in the article's second paragraph.
5
All you can conclude from this study is that it might be interesting to study more people. This is a pre-selected, not random, group of people who already run on a regular basis. It is just as likely that some people have a genetic make up that protects their joints more and that this allows the to become regular runners. And that other people may have a very different genetic make up that fails to protect their knees. Medicine has known for some time now that osteoarthritis has a familial component. That it's not just "wear and tear" though that can have an effect as well. I am disappointed in the NYT for publishing this article in this way. The conclusion "that moderated running is not likely to harm healthy knees and probably offers protection against joint damage" can not be in any way drawn from this tiny and highly flawed study. You are just pouring more disinformation into the already existing soup of health disinformation.
26
Physical Therapist here. Though the sample size and follow-up do reduce the generalizability of the results, the sentiment of this study is logical from a biomechanics point of view. While it is true that running can decrease cartilage around the knee joint and subsequently result in arthritis, there are other benefits that accompany running. Running, unlike sitting, allows the knee to span a greater range of motion. This decreases stiffness and allows our joints to be properly nourished with synovial fluid. Synovial fluid is a substance released by the membrane surrounding our joints. It acts as a lubricant to ease sliding motion between bones and also provides nutrients to the cartilage. Activities, like running, help offset joint stiffness by allowing for increased active range of motion and thus proper lubrication of the joints. Note that arthritis of the elbow is far less common than the hip or the knee. We move our elbows through their full range all day long when we eat, pick up objects, etc. By allowing the joint to go through its full range of motion, we are able to better maintain joint health.
Another important point is that knee pain with running can be the victim of a plethora of causes. In particular, lack of gluteal strength or activation when running can lead to overuse of the quads. This results in undue pressure on the knee during running. Oftentimes, gluteal strengthening is an effective way to offset knee pain.
Another important point is that knee pain with running can be the victim of a plethora of causes. In particular, lack of gluteal strength or activation when running can lead to overuse of the quads. This results in undue pressure on the knee during running. Oftentimes, gluteal strengthening is an effective way to offset knee pain.
61
Thank you for that, its very helpful, and just what I was considering last night when my knees were hurting. I sit alot as Im an animator.
Aqua--likely patellofemoral syndrome is your problem
Six subjects, and they only got synovial fluid from ONE of them? This does not rise to the level of being worthy of being reported on in the NY Times.
45
Sounds like when it comes to knees, use 'em or lose 'em.
7
Laughable pseudo-"study"
Minute sample size just one limitation
WHO published this?!
Minute sample size just one limitation
WHO published this?!
14
I'm 73,and have been running four times a day for some 50 years in addition to much weight training for my legs and elsewhere. Running up steep hills after the gym is my favorite. Might seem like a drag to many, but all, and I mean all,systems are go. My doc says that I have the health and looks of a guy in his early 50s. My lovely girlfriend says the same. Also,as a managing attorney of a law firm,my cognitive abilities are better than ever. I thank running for all of that.
12
Four times a DAY?
1
Yes, that must be a typo? When would he have time for the gym, work or anything else?
1
I have been running continuously since I was 29. I am about to turn 64. I run about 30 miles a week. In my 40's, I would run 45 miles a week (OK, nuts!) I have never had a running injury of any kind. My doctor keeps asking about arthritis, but although I have a second cousin who is on her third knee replacement, I charge on in complete comfort. I think part of it is that I came to running from dance, and understood form. I think that a part of it is genetics. The only change as I age is that I run shorter distances (7 miles as opposed to 10) and run the last mile or so as fast as I can (great for making love handles disappear). The other element is that I have been bodybuilding even longer than I have been running. I think that weight training, running, and eating well play into it.
But there is one more factor. I have never run a race. I suspect that race preparation pushes people to ignore the screaming of the body telling you to STOP!!! None of the marathoners who pestered me for years can run regularly anymore. Most of them moved on (quite expensively, I might add) to triathlons.
It's weird because I don't know anyone like me, so I feel like an odd experiment.
But there is one more factor. I have never run a race. I suspect that race preparation pushes people to ignore the screaming of the body telling you to STOP!!! None of the marathoners who pestered me for years can run regularly anymore. Most of them moved on (quite expensively, I might add) to triathlons.
It's weird because I don't know anyone like me, so I feel like an odd experiment.
25
Hi - Could you tell us what type or brand of shoes you run in? And has that changed over the years?
You are not the only odd experiment. Although I ran occasionally when younger, I started running in earnest (20-30 miles/week) at age 50 when my weight hit 200. Twelve year later I'm a comfortable 180 pounds, still drinking beer and running 15-20 miles/week. I generally eschew races - I run when I feel like it, at a comfortable 8-9 minute/mile pace, and have no compunctions against stopping to catch my breath every few miles. Running 4 miles at 6AM is better than coffee for waking up, especially in the winter! Knees feel fine, except when I take more than a few days off, and they stiffen up.
1
Certainly. I started by getting fitted by a gentleman who worked for a running shoe store who put me into Saucony Lady Dixon's, which were great. But discontinued.
So my next recommended shoe was made by Turntec. They were fantastic. They only lasted six months, but my feet loved them. The company went under.
Then I moved to New Balance for several years. They worked well.
But the best, and my shoes for at least the last 15 years, are Asics. Not the expensive ones. Not the Gel K's, which I found where I lived, were always worn by people who believed that the more you paid the better the shoes were. They were close to $200, and worn by people who ran 15 miles a week.
The Asics I wear are the old 1000 series, which get discontinued and "upgraded" (which translates into a $10 price increase). When I started wearing them years ago, they were $70. Now they are $110. But I have trick.
Nordstrom has a website called Haute Look. They sell the $110 Asics for $64. I buy three pairs of shoes at a time, mark them, and rotate them. I can get 500 miles out of a pair of shoes by rotating them. I just got three more. Free shipping, free returns.
I should add that when I can't get my old shoes I go to a running store that caters to serious runners. I had originally worn a motion control shoe but was told that what I really needed was a stability shoe (read cushioning). I have a low, strong arch.
Lastly, I never run on concrete. Never, never, never.
So my next recommended shoe was made by Turntec. They were fantastic. They only lasted six months, but my feet loved them. The company went under.
Then I moved to New Balance for several years. They worked well.
But the best, and my shoes for at least the last 15 years, are Asics. Not the expensive ones. Not the Gel K's, which I found where I lived, were always worn by people who believed that the more you paid the better the shoes were. They were close to $200, and worn by people who ran 15 miles a week.
The Asics I wear are the old 1000 series, which get discontinued and "upgraded" (which translates into a $10 price increase). When I started wearing them years ago, they were $70. Now they are $110. But I have trick.
Nordstrom has a website called Haute Look. They sell the $110 Asics for $64. I buy three pairs of shoes at a time, mark them, and rotate them. I can get 500 miles out of a pair of shoes by rotating them. I just got three more. Free shipping, free returns.
I should add that when I can't get my old shoes I go to a running store that caters to serious runners. I had originally worn a motion control shoe but was told that what I really needed was a stability shoe (read cushioning). I have a low, strong arch.
Lastly, I never run on concrete. Never, never, never.
Anecdotal but relevant: I had ACL replacement (using a piece of my own patellar ligament as the graft) 10 years ago, at age 54. Although I am a lifelong runner (3 or 4 miles, several days a week since age 18), the broken ACL was an accident, not related to running. During surgery, I had the privilege of seeing the inside of my knee. The surgeon said that everything except the actual broken ligament was in perfect shape -- looked like the knee of a 20 year old! I am still running, just as much, at age 64.
28
Which of the following would you choose to be required to visit at 60 years old?
Cardiologist or Orthopedist?
Oncologist or Podiatrist?
Diabetes Specialist or Physical Therapist?
I choose the latter in all three cases, so running FTW!!!
Cardiologist or Orthopedist?
Oncologist or Podiatrist?
Diabetes Specialist or Physical Therapist?
I choose the latter in all three cases, so running FTW!!!
12
Many people have switched from running to other activities, like swimming or cycling, to get many of the same health benefits with less pounding on the knees.
2
But different benefits.
You arent building bones mass by swimming.
You arent building bones mass by swimming.
1
@Aqua: Yes, no two activities provide exactly the same benefits, but I was mostly addressing the issues Chris suggested (heart disease, cancer, diabetes). Running won't really help you avoid those conditions any more than most other forms of aerobic exercise.
1
Does walking achieve the same benefit?
What about bicycling?
Is the argument there is something unique about running?
Or is it merely, "as long as you're not just sitting?"
What about bicycling?
Is the argument there is something unique about running?
Or is it merely, "as long as you're not just sitting?"
50
We did not have any chairs in prehistory, did we? Typing this sitting in the sofa with both feet up.
Thirty-five years of running were lots of fun but left me with menisci in tatters in both knees.
8
I'm being unscientific and am only using my powers of observation, but while serving in the US Army for three years, I met a great number of soldiers who damaged their knees enough to require surgery. Our battalion typically ran 4 times a week for 30 to 40 minutes at a time on concrete and the ones that had the worst knee problems were people who were in the service longer than 10 years. Several of my friends who were only in a couple of years also had bad knees (ACL, blown out and/or arthritic knees). By the way, I was in unit that never crawled around (like the infantry) in field exercises.
7
Makes sense to me.... use it or lose it
2
I am 60 and have been running for years, sometimes 30-35 miles per week (10-15 miles on Saturday). That is, I used to run that much. Can't any more. My left knee has asked me to register its strong disagreement with this story.
39
I use an elliptical machine and do not jog. My knees are great and I am 66 years old. You are also forgetting: What about you feet and ankles from running? What is the verdict on that.? So even if it helps your knees what about your feet and ankles?
6
Running is hard on the joints of the lower extremity. I do not think this can be disputed.
2
Running does not cause arthritis in the select group of people who can run day in and day out, year after year, without significant injuries. Most people have to quit from the myriad of other things that hurt, warning signs that running is not for them. "Arthritis" grabs headlines because it sounds so awful, but tendinitis and other soft tissue inflammations can be more crippling and painful. Some of these conditions become chronic, such as calcification of the Achilles tendon.
6
Its truly sad, indeed, to die with a great set of knees but with a busted heart and a fat belly. There are tradeoffs in everything we do. Been running for over 45 yrs. I picked my poison. Haha!
11
Here's a similar type Medical study of 75,000 people about joints and osteoarthritis:
medicalxpress.com/news/2013-03-excess-doesnt-osteoarthritis-hip.html#jCp
Many of my large-ish pals constantly warn me (running 15 years+ Age 60) of coming knee disasters as they are on their 2nd hip and knee replacements (they are proud of not "stressing" their bodies). Best way to fend off joint problems when running "Chi Running" fall forward as you run and don't heel strike:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWWRKX6BH4I
medicalxpress.com/news/2013-03-excess-doesnt-osteoarthritis-hip.html#jCp
Many of my large-ish pals constantly warn me (running 15 years+ Age 60) of coming knee disasters as they are on their 2nd hip and knee replacements (they are proud of not "stressing" their bodies). Best way to fend off joint problems when running "Chi Running" fall forward as you run and don't heel strike:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWWRKX6BH4I
4
Who would voluntarily and unnecessarily have their knee joints tapped?
Who would propose that anyone should consider volunteering for such a procedure?
Who would propose that anyone should consider volunteering for such a procedure?
16
Exactly.I can't imagine running for 30 minutes after having sinovial fluid tapped from my knee. Also, I am only 37, but after years of running on asphalt (in retrospect, not my brightest idea, given my flat feet), my knees are all but kaput, and I struggle with yoga poses involving the knee the way an 80-year-old might. Running now causes intense knee pain, but thank goodness I was always a better swimmer than runner.
3
Interesting but limited study. What is needed are longterm studies carefully calibrated for age, sex, weight, general health, and quantity and quality of running or jogging. I ran somewhat when I was younger. Now I am 80 and have osteroarthritis in both knees and must limit and space out my walking to avoid worse pain. But so far I have avoided or postponed knee replacement.
7
Ever since childhood I disliked running, even though I was a very active child. My reason is simple: I am not built for running.
- My torso is long, the legs are comparatively short, especially the shins.
- I have very slight knock knees, putting uneven stress on the knee joints.
- I don't seem to have many fast muscle fibers.
In my thirties I tried to run on a school track and hated every minute of it. This leads me to the most sensible conclusion: Why run, when it doesn't do any good? Instead I walk (pretty fast) and do all kinds of exercises.
Some of my relatives and friends have been running for years and are doing well. But all of them have the ideal runners body, short torso and long legs with no skeletal imbalances.
On my walks I have seen too many joggers with severe skeletal problems. All of them seemed to experience pain and probably gave up running pretty soon. They might have been better off by just walking, cycling or swimming and doing some appropriate exercises.
Needless to say, I am sure the small group of longtime runners in the study must fit the ideal runner's body type.
- My torso is long, the legs are comparatively short, especially the shins.
- I have very slight knock knees, putting uneven stress on the knee joints.
- I don't seem to have many fast muscle fibers.
In my thirties I tried to run on a school track and hated every minute of it. This leads me to the most sensible conclusion: Why run, when it doesn't do any good? Instead I walk (pretty fast) and do all kinds of exercises.
Some of my relatives and friends have been running for years and are doing well. But all of them have the ideal runners body, short torso and long legs with no skeletal imbalances.
On my walks I have seen too many joggers with severe skeletal problems. All of them seemed to experience pain and probably gave up running pretty soon. They might have been better off by just walking, cycling or swimming and doing some appropriate exercises.
Needless to say, I am sure the small group of longtime runners in the study must fit the ideal runner's body type.
2
"Good for your knees..." Whose knees? We are all different. Ask my doctor? He's 40 pounds overweight. I've been running for over 40 years -- have never had any problems with knees, back, arches, neck or teeth. My best friend, also a runner, is on his second knee replacement. Genes, dear, genes are key.
9
I love to run and have had no knee problems. That said I would never volunteer to have needles stuck into my knees. Who are these crazy people? No wonder this sample is so small. Perhaps a study on the long term effect of needle poking is next. Or on the psychological make up of the people who participate in this nonsense?
1
This study is completely insignificant because, among other things, there were way too few participants and they were way too young. I have never met anybody still in his/her twnenties complaining about knee pain from running. Troubles typically start in one's forties. So the title "running may be good for your knee" is a major case of jumping the gun. I am really disappointed that the NYC allowed this sensationalistic article to be published at all as it may encourage irresponsible behaviors such as continuing one's running regimen with already badly damaged knees.
More generally, the secret to gracefully aging is moderation, be it for excercise, drinking or nutrition. And the best form of exercise has time and again proven to be a combination of aerobic (running would not be my first choice for people over 40 because it is high impact) and weight training.
More on this here
http://www.fitandwise.com/2010/08/all-aerobic-myth.html
More generally, the secret to gracefully aging is moderation, be it for excercise, drinking or nutrition. And the best form of exercise has time and again proven to be a combination of aerobic (running would not be my first choice for people over 40 because it is high impact) and weight training.
http://www.fitandwise.com/2010/08/all-aerobic-myth.html
4
A small and short-term study, as noted in the column, so somewhat limited - but hopeful stuff. I like the article. Keep it up, NYTs
2
To study only runners about this issue misses the point. One question that was not asked was the familial history of osteoarthritis. Given that this is likely genetically linked, it seems likely that aging long distance runners likely have no family history of osteoarthritis and thus are somehow protected from repetitive stress injuries to their joints. My wife's father had very bad knees and a history of osteoarthritis. That was not present in my family. We have both walked (together) as exercise for most of the 36 years of our marriage. She has osteoarthritis throughout, and at the age of 68 had one hip replaced. I don't have osteoarthritis and my joints are fine. This study seems fatally flawed.
2
Moderate amounts of any physical activity are beneficial as long as you do not overdo it. Otherwise, you will "use it AND lose it." Don't use data like these as an excuse to go beyond your body's ability to regenerate itself.
Optimize your exercise.
Optimize your exercise.
4
I'm in my seventies, and with forty-odd years of running at least 25 mi/wk on pavement (I hew to blacktop; avoid harder cement and concrete), I can predict that the last thing to go on me will be my knees. They're fine.
I'll probably die from an attack of the vapors caused by non-running friends and neighbors incessantly asking me how my knees are.
I'll probably die from an attack of the vapors caused by non-running friends and neighbors incessantly asking me how my knees are.
10
As so many have pointed out, with such a small sample size, it's hard to say that this study does more than HINT that running MIGHT have beneficial effects on the knees. But I'm extremely skeptical when the only options studied were sitting still and running. Why not a group that WALKED for 30 minutes?
Also, speaking as one who BEGAN running road races at 71, if running is so beneficial to the knees, why am I so often the only person in my F70+ age group? [g]
Also, speaking as one who BEGAN running road races at 71, if running is so beneficial to the knees, why am I so often the only person in my F70+ age group? [g]
1
Twenty-five years a runner, now at age 58, I've just had both knees replaced due to advanced OA.
Yet, of my "events", only one knee injury occurred running, the rest were hiking, playing men's league bball and work.
I'd still go back to running (and might).
Yet, of my "events", only one knee injury occurred running, the rest were hiking, playing men's league bball and work.
I'd still go back to running (and might).
2
I don't plan on taking up running, but if your knees are bothering you, try bicycling. You also can get the benefit on a stationary bicycle. The thing is, you are moving that knee joint without the pounding of running. The knee movement allows the fluid in the knee to bathe the joint properly. My doctor, who played tennis, was told by his orthopedist to stay off the treadmill. So I took that advice and my knee pain went away. I am now trying the "manual" treadmill at the gym; it's a rubbery surfaced, non-electric thing that I walk on. It burns calories very well also. So far, no return of the knee pain.
5
Man has been running for millions of years since we stood upright. Legs are half our body for a reason. It's only since we've developed into a lazy society do you hear the cry "it'll ruin your knees"
5
How long did humans live one million years ago? Probably not long enough to develop arthritis.
2
@Marc A:
Hunter-gatherers had low _average_ life expectancy due to infant mortality, infectious disease, and trauma/violence. Those who survived to adulthood lived lifespans comparable to modern humans, and they lived those lifespans largely free of chronic disease like arthritis.
Hunter-gatherers had low _average_ life expectancy due to infant mortality, infectious disease, and trauma/violence. Those who survived to adulthood lived lifespans comparable to modern humans, and they lived those lifespans largely free of chronic disease like arthritis.
The problem is that you may not know you have “unhealthy” knees until you start running.
My knees never seemed problematic. I can do a lotus pose without any effort at all. But anytime I’ve tried to get into even moderate running, after a couple weeks my one knee reliably starts developing severe pains, and then I’m forced to give it up.
It's an anecdotal case, sure, but it seems misleading to give a blanket impression that running is “good” for your knees.
My knees never seemed problematic. I can do a lotus pose without any effort at all. But anytime I’ve tried to get into even moderate running, after a couple weeks my one knee reliably starts developing severe pains, and then I’m forced to give it up.
It's an anecdotal case, sure, but it seems misleading to give a blanket impression that running is “good” for your knees.
8
As others have noted, a self-selected sample of six is pretty much meaningless. This type of reporting just feeds into people questioning all studies and all advice since it's too hard to sort out the meaningful (get vaccinated) from the pointless (like this one).
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/16/upshot/how-to-prevent-whiplash-from-e...®ion=rank&module=package&version=highlights&contentPlacement=5&pgtype=sectionfront
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/16/upshot/how-to-prevent-whiplash-from-e...®ion=rank&module=package&version=highlights&contentPlacement=5&pgtype=sectionfront
21
Define running. I feel safe in saying that running on level ground, on a track or a treadmill, subjects the knee to significantly less stress than running up and down on concrete.
12
I started running at age 25, 37 years ago. I always tried to use common sense while running, always in short supply in a lot of runners, myself included, and mixed it up with weights and other aerobic activities. I now only run a few days a week, and do spinning or stair master mixed in with weights the other days. I would love to run daily, but I have to be realistic. When I do run it is an exhilarating feeling. I can still do 4-6 miles at a 7:30 -8:00 minute pace. Mixing up my workouts has enabled me to maintain and slightly improve my aerobic capacity.
5
Seems to me that running is good for one's :
- heart
- lungs
- muscles
- joints and bones
- attitude, and
- soul
I don't see any downside, but that's me. To each his or her own...
- heart
- lungs
- muscles
- joints and bones
- attitude, and
- soul
I don't see any downside, but that's me. To each his or her own...
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Sean G:
There is plenty of downside to thinking that one size fits all in terms of the public's health. As to benefiting one's soul, I'll leave that to others.
There is plenty of downside to thinking that one size fits all in terms of the public's health. As to benefiting one's soul, I'll leave that to others.
1
That is not what I have seen from friends and family who have run moderate to heavy their whole life and are now "crippled" seniors with all sorts of bone, lig., muscle problems and countless operations...it also go for other exercises like tennis, cardio....even golf if done enough.
Bottom line exercise, stretch but with extreme moderation....
I followed that most of my life and never had a problem.
Bottom line exercise, stretch but with extreme moderation....
I followed that most of my life and never had a problem.
5
@Sean: Running is REALLY good for my orthopedic surgeon's income!
1
Lousy study, small sample short follow up, select population. The only valid conclusion to be made is one you could have come to on your own: "moderate amount of running" is ok with the emphasis on moderate
but hey, in the world of of academic medicine where there is no value placed on being a good educator but rather how much you publish...publishing a 2nd rate study in an obscure journal in order to comply with the publish or perish paradigm. Well ya gotta do what ya gotta do
but hey, in the world of of academic medicine where there is no value placed on being a good educator but rather how much you publish...publishing a 2nd rate study in an obscure journal in order to comply with the publish or perish paradigm. Well ya gotta do what ya gotta do
18
Well is a subset of the Science section, and should reflect sound science. Six self-selecting subjects is not sound science. We ridicule people who deny global warming, and this is about as bad.
3
Did you miss the part where the researchers noted the small sample size and their intention to conduct follow-up studies with larger samples? Did you consider that the study may be costly to organize and funding may only have been available for a small pilot initially?
1
I ran for years and developed severe knee problems. Can no longer run, or even walk very far.
2
No offense but are you overweight? That would negatively affect your knees, hips, ankles etc and later, your ability to run/walk.
3
Try bicycling, either outdoors or on a stationary bicycle inside. Stay off the electrified treadmills at the gym (this advice from my doctor to me.) Your knee's cycling motion causes the knee to be bathed properly in its own lubricant. Don't push too hard at first. It's the simple motion, not necessarily the muscle force of the calf or thigh in movement.
1
And I've been running for 20+ years, including 26 marathons, with #27 a few months away.
Anecdotes aren't very useful.
Anecdotes aren't very useful.
3
What kind of running? Marathon, 20 minutes on a treadmill?
Be careful doing any activity. Consult a doctor before you start. You only have one body. Permanent injuries aren't fun.
Be careful doing any activity. Consult a doctor before you start. You only have one body. Permanent injuries aren't fun.
17
Definitely consult a doctor before doing any activity. Great advice.
A group of people selected because they enjoy running have little to do with the general population. Many people give up running because of pain, or at least discomfort. These people might show quite a different chemical response to running. Also, how important is this response?
36
What was the distribution of men and women in the sample? I doubt that this holds true for women.
1
Paragraph six answers that question for you. Not sure how you missed it, especially since it's so central to your concern.
3
Thanks for helping me out. I was reading the article while on the treadmill. :-)
2
No. It does not. Fifteen people total, not each, is how that sentence is written and therefore should be taken.
Small study, but interesting results. It would be interesting to see a larger result set, as well as whether cycling has comparable effects.
3
This study has issues and I would not use this info to make any decisions about whether to run or not. Why does the NYTimes report this stuff?
85
One should never rely on a single study to make medical decisions. There are 100's of studies published on the effect of exercise on knee joints. the vast majority are in professional journals behind paywalls, and of course written in a style that people who are not Doctors would find hard to follow.
The Times endeavors to to put some of it before the general public, as, say, "interesting findings".
I started running decades ago, before anything was known about it's long term effects. After 40 years of running I don't have knee problems. The study from which I concluded running was safe (for knees) was done on 10,000 Nordic skiers from their teens to their 80's; showing no adverse conditions from that exercise.
The Times endeavors to to put some of it before the general public, as, say, "interesting findings".
I started running decades ago, before anything was known about it's long term effects. After 40 years of running I don't have knee problems. The study from which I concluded running was safe (for knees) was done on 10,000 Nordic skiers from their teens to their 80's; showing no adverse conditions from that exercise.
Note that, although the article focuses on the new study, but reports it as part of a growing body of evidence: "Epidemiological studies of long-term runners show that they generally are less likely to develop osteoarthritis in the knees than people of the same age who do not run." Of course, it would help to have links to those studies, but footnotes are sadly rare in blog posts.
1
I am totally lacking in athletic ability. So I began running years ago. After 35 years, my shoulder ails for unknown reasons, my hand strength just isn't there, and my lower back flares up from time to time. But my knees are pain free. My suspicion is that all my other pain is transferred from my knees. 35 years of pounding have surely taken a toll. But running is the only "sport" I am good at. So this illogical situation seems like a clear case of mind over matter.
2
such a grand idea, but only six subjects?
2
They started with 15 subjects but could safely get sufficient samples to test from only six, and the article makes clear (at the end) that researchers are hoping to expand upon the research in several ways.
More likely not, especially after 40. Get off your obsession with running and start diversifying your exercise recommendations.
4
seems reasonable - I've had several knee operations and was hesitant about running, but got interested in triathlons so have been running more the last couple of years - the more I run, the stronger my knees seem to be - BUT have been carefully doing the 'good form running' techniques, which really help - when I stop following those, my knees start to act up.
8
The only valid conclusion to draw from this study is that it's difficult to draw synovial fluid from healthy knees.
102
Whether running is good or bad for the knees appears to relate most of all to whether the person running shares the same natural skeletal alignment that is discovered by well-developing babies and toddlers everywhere. Those women in the world who manage to successfully carry heavy loads on their heads without developing problems, as well as those who age into their 80s and 90s with flexible joints and elongated spines, are those who have never lost this natural alignment. This is the one and only design that applies to the healthy functioning of the human body (like a one and only design for specific species of horses, or cheetahs or giraffes). doesn't allow for artificial or contrived ways of inhabiting a body. As a society, we subscribe to a "chest up, shoulders back" approach to good posture to counteract its opposite, collapsed slouching. Both contribute to the epidemic of pain. We evolved to inhabit our bodies with our skeletons aligned along the vertical axis, so the forces of gravity can be distributed through aligned bones and naturally configured joints, such as the knees.
This is a subject that goes largely unrecognized in our culture. I have written a book based on my years of study and observations of naturally aligned people in the world called Natural Posture for Pain-Free Living that includes many photos and illustrations that describe this alignment. One is (almost) never too old to improve one's posture.
This is a subject that goes largely unrecognized in our culture. I have written a book based on my years of study and observations of naturally aligned people in the world called Natural Posture for Pain-Free Living that includes many photos and illustrations that describe this alignment. One is (almost) never too old to improve one's posture.
4
The caveat "not likely to harm healthy knees" is the key. I was a long time (30+ years) competitive and then recreational runner starting in high school. I enjoyed it but my mistake was not giving it up once knee pain began. Nothing I tried from new shoes to running on soft surfaces helped and while trying to find a solution I was just doing more damage. For me cycling (road or mountain) is very good exercise, lots of fun and, as opposed to running, therapeutic for my knees. My wife and I now plan at least one vacation a year around a cycling destination.
15
I'm nearly 43 and have been running consistently (36 marathons and counting) since I was 18. And (knock on wood), I've never had the slightest problem with my knees.
Like the author, I too have had dozens of people over the years tell me I'm damaging my knees. But these warnings have come from non-runners.
In my profession, I often speak with orthopedic surgeons and I always ask, "do you see many runners?" They always tell me that they rarely, if ever, treat runners.
Hopefully, this study (and others like it) and this article (and others like it) will put an end to what appears to be a myth.
And also motivates non-runners to get off the couch.
Like the author, I too have had dozens of people over the years tell me I'm damaging my knees. But these warnings have come from non-runners.
In my profession, I often speak with orthopedic surgeons and I always ask, "do you see many runners?" They always tell me that they rarely, if ever, treat runners.
Hopefully, this study (and others like it) and this article (and others like it) will put an end to what appears to be a myth.
And also motivates non-runners to get off the couch.
60
Not everybody is built for every sport - I find high-impact sports and heavy weight lifting painful and injurious if pushed too far, but have been a long-distance runner for 42+ years. At this point, I have developed fairly severe arthritis in my hands and elbows, but my knees, hips, ankles, and back are still in great shape. I know plenty of people in their 70's and 80's that are still dedicated golf and tennis players, but I had to give both of those up before age 50 because of the hand and elbow pain. It's a matter of finding what sport works for you, and what you can enjoy for life.
5
I would have written the same thing at age 43 (I am now 72). At age 49, I suffered the fate of most middle age runners-- "Runner's Knee," that is, patella femoral stress syndrome. Orthopedists don't find it interesting because it is not arthritis, but it does prevent you from walking like a normal human being for a month or two. Young people usually bounce back but older folks have to make do with the elliptical walker from then on.
2
@Matt: You don't quite get it: many of the non-runners are non-runners because running would (or already has) landed them in a doctor's office for pain or damage.
For instance, I am a non-runner because after 3 knee surgeries, I don't have enough cartilage left to make it safe for me to run. How did I need 3 knee surgeries? Take a guess! Some people have bodies - and leg issues - that make running genuinely bad for them.
For instance, I am a non-runner because after 3 knee surgeries, I don't have enough cartilage left to make it safe for me to run. How did I need 3 knee surgeries? Take a guess! Some people have bodies - and leg issues - that make running genuinely bad for them.
3
My knees always feel terrible from too much sitting. Walking, hiking and light jogging are no problem. Walking on sand and loose snow makes my "bad" knee feel mushy. I'll have to try a little more of the jogging....
8
Very small samples, no?
38
I am surprised that Ms. Reynolds keeps writing columns about such poorly supported, preliminary studies. The study she now highlights is based on six (6) recreational runners. The conversation is then extended by a number of hypotheticals focused on short-term changes various inflammatory mediators.
The study does not suggest anything about confounding variables such as age, weight, pre-existing joint damage, gender or concurrent medications. It does not consider long-term issues.
I am not objecting to the idea of a pilot study suggesting possibilities--but a full column in the public press? I can accept the idea (before this report) that running may be beneficial for many people.
This does point to problems with media reporting on medicine and other elements of science: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/in-theory/wp/2016/08/17/the-media-is... . Here is the concluding paragraph:
"The unfortunate reality is that some scholarly research cannot be simplified without giving up essential nuance. The general public can’t blame science for being too hard — it can only blame reporters for not having the intellectual rigor or, more likely, the time to work through the difficult questions."
The NYTs should do better--no matter the hypothetical benefits of running.
The study does not suggest anything about confounding variables such as age, weight, pre-existing joint damage, gender or concurrent medications. It does not consider long-term issues.
I am not objecting to the idea of a pilot study suggesting possibilities--but a full column in the public press? I can accept the idea (before this report) that running may be beneficial for many people.
This does point to problems with media reporting on medicine and other elements of science: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/in-theory/wp/2016/08/17/the-media-is... . Here is the concluding paragraph:
"The unfortunate reality is that some scholarly research cannot be simplified without giving up essential nuance. The general public can’t blame science for being too hard — it can only blame reporters for not having the intellectual rigor or, more likely, the time to work through the difficult questions."
The NYTs should do better--no matter the hypothetical benefits of running.
157
Amen! These articles, mere summaries of questionable studies, are little more than click bait, and they damage the integrity of the res of the paper by eroding reader trust.
7
Agreed that this small study does not meet the rigor for a definitive study. However, I enjoy reading and pondering these reports as well as full blown double blind, random trials. A lifelong runner and competitive athlete in high school and college I have no knee pain or issues. That is why I like to read these reports they might explain my good fortune. Keep them coming at NYT
2
You forgot about all the anecdotal evidence in the comments section supporting the conclusion! "I ran for 30 years and my knees are healthy!"
Print it!
Print it!
You've got to be kidding me.
27
Running is great not only for knees, embracing running as a habit means major benefits for your heart. I'm training for marathon with SportMe running appwhich calculates distance, pace, time and calories and adjusts running plans to my progress.
3
The Magic 8-Ball says maybe.
37