A partial solution is to get a Panasonic cordless phone (at least the ones sold at Costco). They have a built in phone number blocker that allows blocking of over 300 numbers. It even has a Block button to click on once you get a bad call that you want to block going forward. You can even block all calls from a particular area code or country code. I've cut out a number of calls using that and using
http://800notes.com
which lets you look up the status of reported scam numbers.
http://800notes.com
which lets you look up the status of reported scam numbers.
10
I no longer answer my phones unless I recognize the caller. Period. Never. Problem solved. Same for emails and never, ever click on a link or open an attachment.
I don't even understand how pollsters operate anymore because most people I know don't answer either. Scammers rule and until the government mandates phone companies address this it will continue. I don't expect much from the Trumpster and his merry band of free marketeers.
I don't even understand how pollsters operate anymore because most people I know don't answer either. Scammers rule and until the government mandates phone companies address this it will continue. I don't expect much from the Trumpster and his merry band of free marketeers.
9
Oh we humans need to work on our super powers - such as listening!
A call from the IRS left on my answering machine by a foreign young man sternly gave me the warning not to ignore his message about my so called fraudulent payment. But at the end of the call he said 'have a nice day'.
A big red flag, beside knowing the IRS will only contact you by mail, never the phone.
A call from the IRS left on my answering machine by a foreign young man sternly gave me the warning not to ignore his message about my so called fraudulent payment. But at the end of the call he said 'have a nice day'.
A big red flag, beside knowing the IRS will only contact you by mail, never the phone.
16
Did they find out how the scammers got the phone numbers of gullible US citizens, especially the new immigrants?
12
This problem is easily fixable. All telecom companies need to be *required* to collect a $0.01 origination fee for any and all calls from the originator. Calls inbound to the US need to be blocked unless *somebody* on the originating end pays the 1 cent fee.
This problem exists only because the variable cost of making a call is zero.
The fact that is problem remained unaddressed is purely because neither the government nor the telecom companies have any economic incentive to solve the problem.
This problem exists only because the variable cost of making a call is zero.
The fact that is problem remained unaddressed is purely because neither the government nor the telecom companies have any economic incentive to solve the problem.
22
We used to get scam type calls, including the phony IRS ones, until we found a way to prevent them from getting through. We signed up for a free service called NoMoRoBo.com. Now, when a phony call tries to sneak through (landline or cell), the phone rings just once and the incoming call is stopped in its tracks. It's even better than listening to multiple rings without picking up. Just think, if everyone used this type of service, problem solved.
12
My sons computer got a virus from some gaming site. I took it to Best Buy and paid the geeks $200 to re-image the machine, remove the partition and only put the latest copy of windows 10 and my disk of Microsoft professional and the webroot software they sell
Boom! Clean and back in business with no junk software or nonsense. Warranted for a year
Boom! Clean and back in business with no junk software or nonsense. Warranted for a year
5
Shamefully harmful practice, now here is a trade problem that surely needs to be addressed by the coming president. India must properly police such practices.
4
Did you even read the article? This is called fraud, not trade.
16
The biggest crime associated with this years lond foreign organized crime plague is that the US government has not set up any expedited system for US citizens to report these suspected frauds, and then a fast response hit team to attack these groups either with armed agents or cooperating local police from nations of origin! There has been a "can't hurt the spirit of globalization and elite profits" pussy footing around by our law enforcement officials, while common Americans are crucified by these schemes - again apparently intentionally so the grand crusade of globalization is not hindered by any bad publicity.
11
So today I read about how women are raped, hassled, and violently tormented across India, their president has limited a majority of the country access to their hard earned cash, and he is an openly hateful and prejudiced (sounds familiar - Donald Trump) leader of a democracy?, and now this?! I do not profile, nor am I racist, far to the contrary, I am a lover of man and woman-kind.
India is a nation besieged by abusive personal, corporate and political greed, it has the highest percentile of suicide worldwide, resulting from corporate and sadistic overseers of farmers and laborers, ranks in the top hierarchy of the planet's polluters, and the only country in the world that actually legally sanctions a major portion of it's populous to be categorized and marginalized as "untouchables", all whilst professing to be a spiritual, humanitarian, progressive hub?
I think India should be summarily cut off from being able to do trade with the US until they take legal responsibility for these and other issues.
India is a nation besieged by abusive personal, corporate and political greed, it has the highest percentile of suicide worldwide, resulting from corporate and sadistic overseers of farmers and laborers, ranks in the top hierarchy of the planet's polluters, and the only country in the world that actually legally sanctions a major portion of it's populous to be categorized and marginalized as "untouchables", all whilst professing to be a spiritual, humanitarian, progressive hub?
I think India should be summarily cut off from being able to do trade with the US until they take legal responsibility for these and other issues.
15
"If I owe that much money, then it's worth your while to see me in person at my home with proper ID and a gun, because I will definitely have both as well."
9
I'm struck by the facial expressions of these trolls in the accompanying photo.
Contemptuous doesn't even get there.
Donald, do the deal !!!
Indian prisons for the accused on Day 1 in exchange for less of a trade war on offshore Indian call centers
Contemptuous doesn't even get there.
Donald, do the deal !!!
Indian prisons for the accused on Day 1 in exchange for less of a trade war on offshore Indian call centers
4
Do the scammers attack only people in the USA? This article implicitly makes it seem so, there is no mention of calling people in other countries.
I'm puzzled why it would be. Do other countries phone systems have better blocking? Or do they have more vigorous enforcement?
I'm puzzled why it would be. Do other countries phone systems have better blocking? Or do they have more vigorous enforcement?
5
Scammers like other crooks go where the money is. Do you expect them to call people in Uganda, for example?
6
I say, "May I put you on hold or a sec?" Then make them wait and do something else. They can't scam someone when you have them on hold.
7
1. Don't talk to anyone on the phone who has an accent.
2. Don't talk to anyone on the phone you don't know.
3. If you have to call somewhere that has a call center, ask them if they are in the U.S. If the answer is no (usually is) ask to be transferred to a U.S. call center and verify their location and only speak to them if they don't have an accent.
2. Don't talk to anyone on the phone you don't know.
3. If you have to call somewhere that has a call center, ask them if they are in the U.S. If the answer is no (usually is) ask to be transferred to a U.S. call center and verify their location and only speak to them if they don't have an accent.
9
Doesn't no. 2 take care of no. 1? Unless you think we shouldn't talk to anyone we know with an accent...?
4
Re #1: How about our incoming first lady? Would you talk to Melania Trump?
6
There have always been scammers and fraudsters, some small-time others big-time. The only thing that changes is the MO, and advances in technology makes things easier and easier.
There is a way to help deter this. Treat these "white collar" criminals the same as any other run-of-the-mill perp. Catch them, indict them, convict them and send them to jail.
There is a way to help deter this. Treat these "white collar" criminals the same as any other run-of-the-mill perp. Catch them, indict them, convict them and send them to jail.
6
So, HIRE AMERICANS! Duh!
2
Some of the biggest con artists are in Congress and soon the White House!
19
Some of the biggest con artists are in Congress, and soon will be in the White House
4
I used to work in a tech call center in 94. Then some had the bright idea to move it all to India and with it my career path and IP. Don't hear Republicans talking about these jobs.
9
My 82 yr old mother, whose memory and judgement are fading, has been getting calls from "Windows tech support" for a couple years. I keep telling her to just hang up, it's a scam, but she keeps talking to them. So far they only got $300, but last month had a couple close calls. One guy took control of her computer and tried to have her sign up for online banking (she called me before they got any money). I am taking steps to limit her access to her money. This is the only way to protect someone like her from these awful scams. Unfortunately there are thousands of elderly people who fall victim to these scams.
We should pressure the Indian government to crack down on them. We need better consumer protections for the digital age.
We should pressure the Indian government to crack down on them. We need better consumer protections for the digital age.
45
There is approximately a 0% chance that these young men get a US visa. It's hard enough under normal circumstances. But when you've committed to a crime involving moral turpitude (in this case, fraud), you've made yourself inadmissible. And then admitting to it in print doesn't exactly help matters (but lying about it doesn't work anyway, and getting caught in a lie just gives another ground for inadmissibility). Maybe someday if they become eligible for a family visa (generally an American spouse), they'll get a waiver of this inadmissibility but that's a whole lot of maybes.
Maybe they're angling for the "informant" visa, if they know it exists, but the problem with that is that they've already given the information they had and it may or may not have been used. Plus, that's generally more for use in investigating US based organized crime.
Maybe they're angling for the "informant" visa, if they know it exists, but the problem with that is that they've already given the information they had and it may or may not have been used. Plus, that's generally more for use in investigating US based organized crime.
8
I am angry that this article seems to demonize people from India. I am aware that there are people from India involved in this but there are many, many more red-white-and-blue AMERICANS callously targeting their own countrymen for scams like this. Let's not fall into the Trumpistic xenophobia of the day, NYT, by making foreigners the bad guys!
21
Simple, store all your contacts. Any calls you don't recognize, do not answer. If you have a landline, have those calls transferred to your cellphone to screen.
Download an app to block calls (your phone also blocks calls but may limit it to say 200 blocked numbers).
The rules: Never answer a call you don't recognize. Anyone who had a legitimate reason to contact you, will leave you a message. If you feel you must check, block your own number and call that number back. 100% of the time that number will be a scam - you won't be able to reach it, it won't be in service, will be busy, etc. Get over the impulse to answer your phone's every call. If it's an unknown number, including those in you own area code (those are also scams), it's a scam.
Be careful, the scammers in my state have highjacked some of our State offices numbers.
Never ever acknowledge, you are you, even if they know your name. Ask them who they are repeatedly. Control the conversation. If they can't answer, hang up. Don't be afraid to be rude. They are wasting your time and are criminals trying to separate you from your money.
Don't answer unknown numbers. Use your cellphone's reject feature to stop the ringing. If you do answer, hang up the minute you realize you don't know this person. Block your own number.
Download an app to block calls (your phone also blocks calls but may limit it to say 200 blocked numbers).
The rules: Never answer a call you don't recognize. Anyone who had a legitimate reason to contact you, will leave you a message. If you feel you must check, block your own number and call that number back. 100% of the time that number will be a scam - you won't be able to reach it, it won't be in service, will be busy, etc. Get over the impulse to answer your phone's every call. If it's an unknown number, including those in you own area code (those are also scams), it's a scam.
Be careful, the scammers in my state have highjacked some of our State offices numbers.
Never ever acknowledge, you are you, even if they know your name. Ask them who they are repeatedly. Control the conversation. If they can't answer, hang up. Don't be afraid to be rude. They are wasting your time and are criminals trying to separate you from your money.
Don't answer unknown numbers. Use your cellphone's reject feature to stop the ringing. If you do answer, hang up the minute you realize you don't know this person. Block your own number.
12
Some scammers buy information from U.S. federal government employees. One had found out I had received some money from my parents that I didn't declare for taxes, and he called me on the telephone and threatened me with arrest, but he didn't know that I had already been caught a year earlier and had had to pay fines that had eaten up all the money. The scammer had been scammed himself when he didn't pay enough for full information.
11
No, Dubey and Poojary, if you are reading this. No. That is not how you emigrate to the US. Do you have any idea how hard it was over twenty years ago, when I stood in line at the Madras (the city is not even called that anymore, and Google was probably in a garage) Consulate for a student visa? The paperwork involved? Including the amount of money my parents had to show they had? That is the hard way - and is even harder now. That is the right way even - even though sometimes I wonder, do those same restrictions apply to every citizen of every country? Anyway - just like you realized there is hardly any get-rich-quick scheme out there that is honest, there is no easy way to settling in the US. It is all hard, honest work.
24
My elderly aunt with cognitive impairments was frightened out of her mind by the "computer repair" scam. They offered to fix her Windows computer. I couldn't get her to understand she only had an Apple device and that there was nothing wrong with it.
To my even greater dismay, my elderly mother with full cognitive capacity but lots of elderly paranoia from watching the news particularly about hacking, viruses, malware, computers being taken over for ransom, couldn't be assured that "Robert" who called daily for weeks to repair her computer, was a scammer with no access to do anything but harass.
To my even greater dismay, my elderly mother with full cognitive capacity but lots of elderly paranoia from watching the news particularly about hacking, viruses, malware, computers being taken over for ransom, couldn't be assured that "Robert" who called daily for weeks to repair her computer, was a scammer with no access to do anything but harass.
7
I used to work in IT and actually had experience dealing with Microsoft (the real one). When I got those Windows calls ( and now that I ditched the land line, life is much better), I had two responses:
1. Microsoft? I have a Mac (or, I don't have a computer)
2. I've worked with Microsoft. When you have a problem with Windows, you sit on the support line for years waiting for help--THEY DON'T CALL YOU. Stop scamming people!
They usually hang up at this point.
1. Microsoft? I have a Mac (or, I don't have a computer)
2. I've worked with Microsoft. When you have a problem with Windows, you sit on the support line for years waiting for help--THEY DON'T CALL YOU. Stop scamming people!
They usually hang up at this point.
11
Come on, Trump, bring these jobs back to the U.S. so we can be defrauded by real Americans.
14
These scammers want VISAs to come to the US? What, and start up call centers in the US for these scams?! I say no. Let them relish in their perceived bringing down of a scammer; it is clear they did not as it was being tracked for 3 years by 'intelligence' agencies. They probably want money, as the article calls them whisleblowers, but they should not receive anything. They are not being arrested, that is all. And they would never have considered it unless they were fired. We need to re-evaluate who we call whistle blowers.
The US government should shut down half their agencies that are supposed to look into fraud and make those remaining actually responsible for doing their jobs vs. pointing fingers at the 'other' agencies. This includes the infamous 'do not call' center. Then we should spend a fraction on the money saved and run ads during the 6 o'clock news, Voice, dancing with the stars, jeopardy - any shows on TV or radio that are typically seen by the elderly.
The US government should shut down half their agencies that are supposed to look into fraud and make those remaining actually responsible for doing their jobs vs. pointing fingers at the 'other' agencies. This includes the infamous 'do not call' center. Then we should spend a fraction on the money saved and run ads during the 6 o'clock news, Voice, dancing with the stars, jeopardy - any shows on TV or radio that are typically seen by the elderly.
4
The fact that their plight has made it into the NYT says something. Desperate people will do or say anything to get into the country. Rewarding and allowing former scammers knowingly into our country is dubious and wrong.
6
Not just the elderly, but the gullible young are preyed upon by these Indian scams. In September, my 20 year old with learning disabilities came to me with his iphone asking me to talk to the Indian scammer. The young male scammer said he represented the IRS that was giving away $9000 tax free scholarships funded by Western Union! That last corporate name was only extracted by me when I said the IRS never ever calls let alone gives money away. He wanted my son to buy $300 in iTune cards from the local 7-11 and use Western Union at Walmart to send the iTune $ to them! In return the Indian scammers would send my not-so-stupid son (he came to me) the $9000. When I asked for more information, he put on an older Indian woman who I subjected to rather vulgar language and said never ever to call my son again. They got the message.
7
Re-reading the article, I noticed a native resident of India stating that he takes great umbrage that these telemarketers cheat native India residents; but had no problem with their cheating America, as it cheats the world. To that person I propose the following.... America is a conglomeration of peoples whose individual beliefs, customs and ethnicities is a reflection of the world. Buying his logic would I be wrong to state that India malfeasance toward America is cheating the world!
6
I have been called by the IRS scammers and the Windows scammers... of course, being in the computer industry, I immediately recognized what it was about. I had the pleasure of yelling at them in Hindi... ha ha! Most of the targets of these attacks that I know are Indian immigrants. What a shame... no way to prevent these things from happening other than being informed and very careful.
9
I was working in 1099 5 years back then decided to start a S corp. Instead of filing a S corp I registered for a C Corp. Then decided to change it to S corp the following year. With the help of Intuit I filed the 1st year C corp tax returns. I was claiming the meals, Internet, phone charges, new laptop I bought, few printers and all health insurance, 401 K, depreciation,charity contribution(very less),car mileage,preventive repairs,etc. It was something new to me to file the corp tax return. This is exactly 5 years back.I thought I did a reasonable job in filing the tax return.After 5 weeks I received this scam IRS call. I can't even think that time that IRS won't communicate through phone.The guy told that I will be arrested for IRS tax dues and penalty. Literally I was shocked. I thought I didn't file the tax properly or maybe took too many deductions which are not allowed. Then he said if I can pay him immediately then the arrest can be avoided. Then I realized immediately this was a scam. Pretty much I was receiving the calls for few days continuously. I used to ignore it . Its very easy to target elderly people. I think its a very huge business in India.We need to be extra cautious.
4
I regularly get a call from “Windows Technical Department”. Unlikely - Microsoft never calls you. Ever try to call them? An Indian accented guy introduces himself as “Scott Johnson”. One can see the incongruity right there. He proceeds to tell me that a message appeared in his inbox that there is a serous virus on my computer. I respond “Really, you can detect that from your office? “That is very impressive” I tell him, "especially since I have a Mac." A quick hang-up follows without even a goodbye. Lately, when they call and first ask me how I am today, I reply ‘I’m fine, thank you for asking” and then I hang up.
9
Well, what did we expect would happen when we exported all of our call centers to India?! We get what we deserve when we let our rapacious greed drive all of our business decisions.
49
The NYT is doing an yeomen service to the American people by disseminating information about the CON JOB through Call centres emanating from India being used to fleece innocent Americans of their hard earned money not to mention depriving them of their peace of mind.
The stress in dealing with this online terrorist is unbelievably high.
We live in an quick buck making world without any ethics or principles.
Such unscrupulous Con Artist should be severely punished.
Unless the American Authorities exert pressure on their counterparts in India,it's unlikely to speed up investigation.
The NYT should follow up in the days to come with an additional reporting on the progress of investigation in India,you owe your readers at least this help as an solace to this reprehensible act which I liken to Financial Terrorism.
This acts tarnish the image of a nation.
Most Despicable to say the least.An act of Blatant Cheating.
The stress in dealing with this online terrorist is unbelievably high.
We live in an quick buck making world without any ethics or principles.
Such unscrupulous Con Artist should be severely punished.
Unless the American Authorities exert pressure on their counterparts in India,it's unlikely to speed up investigation.
The NYT should follow up in the days to come with an additional reporting on the progress of investigation in India,you owe your readers at least this help as an solace to this reprehensible act which I liken to Financial Terrorism.
This acts tarnish the image of a nation.
Most Despicable to say the least.An act of Blatant Cheating.
3
When I get the "Windows" callers - about once every two months - I just start talking about how happy I am that they called because I need to replace my living room windows, and go on from there chattering about double hung vs casement, wood vs vinyl, blinds vs curtains, paint vs stain, etc etc. When they try to take back the conversation by saying - "No, I mean windows for your computer" I reply that my computer doesn't need windows, my living room does, and keep going from there. I am always surprised by how long it takes them to figure out I am not a potential victim, and I always hope I am wasting enough of their time to keep them from making a victim of someone else.
52
The scammers appear to increase after you reach 65:
1. It appears the IRS and let me fix your PC scam is still working as I get the PC call about once a month even though I have told these creeps that they are obvious crooks and their parents should be ashamed of them.
2. As many others have stated here, I have come not to trust an Indian speaking voice on any phone interaction.
3. Blocking phone numbers seems only to work sometimes. Bridget and Carmen and their credit card scam seem to get thru all my efforts.
4. Before Trump and his anti-protection team destroy the Consumer Protection
Agency can they please help. I would like my phone back.
1. It appears the IRS and let me fix your PC scam is still working as I get the PC call about once a month even though I have told these creeps that they are obvious crooks and their parents should be ashamed of them.
2. As many others have stated here, I have come not to trust an Indian speaking voice on any phone interaction.
3. Blocking phone numbers seems only to work sometimes. Bridget and Carmen and their credit card scam seem to get thru all my efforts.
4. Before Trump and his anti-protection team destroy the Consumer Protection
Agency can they please help. I would like my phone back.
9
On multiple occasions I have received phone calls from a "Mr. Steve Martin" informing me that there is a judgment against me and that I am liable for unpaid taxes. I have informed Mr. Martin on those occasions that he is a fraud and that he should roast in hell. Nevertheless, he has continued to call me over the years. It is interesting to note that this scam seems to target land lines phones because I am told older people who are more gullible are more likely to have them.
8
Excellent article!
"a tech scam, which warned Americans that their computer had been infected by a virus"
After many such calls were intercepted by my answering machine, I finally answered and politely said I couldn't care less about Microsoft, etc., or I told the caller he was breaking the law since I was no the No Call List. His vulgar reply suggested that he really wasn't a Microsoft employee. What a surprise! If time permitted, I wasted considerable time for the caller by asking naive questions or providing non-responsive answers -- all quite sincerely. Their time is precious; it was fun.
The calls stopped completely after several such encounters.
"a tech scam, which warned Americans that their computer had been infected by a virus"
After many such calls were intercepted by my answering machine, I finally answered and politely said I couldn't care less about Microsoft, etc., or I told the caller he was breaking the law since I was no the No Call List. His vulgar reply suggested that he really wasn't a Microsoft employee. What a surprise! If time permitted, I wasted considerable time for the caller by asking naive questions or providing non-responsive answers -- all quite sincerely. Their time is precious; it was fun.
The calls stopped completely after several such encounters.
13
"Several trends have converged to make this happen, he said: a demographic bulge of computer-savvy, young, English-speaking job seekers; a vast call-center culture; super-efficient technology; and what can only be described as ingenuity."
Sad these trends skipped the rust belt and went to India.
But we're #1 in oxycontin abuse!
Sad these trends skipped the rust belt and went to India.
But we're #1 in oxycontin abuse!
15
Whenever I receive a call from a number I don't recognize I don't answer it. If it doesn't go into voicemail, I go to Recent/Missed Calls, hit the info icon after the number, scroll down and hit Block Caller. Done.
11
My advice is to invest in a call blocker. If you don't recognize the number or it's a number from another state where you don't know anyone or there is no name associated with the number then let the call go to voicemail. One call, that I still saved on my voicemail, said he is "Steve Parker from the Internal Revenue Services." Well anyone who works for the IRS should know that the word is "service" and not "services." He went on to say that I should call the number he gave me before I am arrested for the tax fraud I committed so I can avoid going to federal claims court. Well last I checked the government likes to write and cite regulatory codes that gives them the authorization to contact you. Also if you really commit tax fraud the government is not going to rectify that by allowing you to send them money. You're going to prison. Now if you carelessly owes them money they will just charge you interest with a penalty along with the original amount owed. The IRS won't be able to function if it needed to go to court to get money from anyone. It can legally put a freeze on someone's bank account and take the money it's owed.
Sorry for the Indian victims in America but it's not true that they are not targeting Indian. The best scammers are the ones who share the same culture.
“He said, ‘What happened?’” said Parag Manere, a deputy commissioner of police. “‘We are not cheating people in India! We are cheating people in the U.S.! And the U.S. cheats the whole world!’”
Sorry for the Indian victims in America but it's not true that they are not targeting Indian. The best scammers are the ones who share the same culture.
“He said, ‘What happened?’” said Parag Manere, a deputy commissioner of police. “‘We are not cheating people in India! We are cheating people in the U.S.! And the U.S. cheats the whole world!’”
5
The scammers often spoof their phone numbers; .e.g, they'll use a Washington D.C. area code to make the call look more official. This is why I let all calls go to voicemail, unless it is from someone I know personally.
18
I usually answer and tell them that I know they are committing fraud.They harassed me for a week: I reported them to the FTC and the FBI, and told them, adding that they would be tracked. They stopped calling me.
Beware also of those calls that tell you they will lower your credit card interest. The other thing you can do is to put them on hold, and leave them there, or tell them that you are recording the conversation.
Fight back..they need to know that there are people who are on to them.
Beware also of those calls that tell you they will lower your credit card interest. The other thing you can do is to put them on hold, and leave them there, or tell them that you are recording the conversation.
Fight back..they need to know that there are people who are on to them.
13
I am retired and last year I received many fake IRS calls. I loved wasting their time because I knew the scammer was "working" and I was just goofing off as a retiree. Sometimes I acted confused and ordered take out Chinese food. I always called them back when they left a fake IRS threatening message on my voice mail. I pranked them with a recording of "Chantilly Lace" which begins with "Hello there" and gets progressively more animated as it plays. I saved a copy of it on my small hand held dictating recorder and I blasted it when one of the scammers answered the line. That song drove them nuts as I heard one scammer say, "Stop it" when the song was at the "jigglin' walk and gigglin' talk" section. That made my day. I think all the calls I received must have been generated from one of the now defunct sites because I have not received a call in quite some time. Well, it was fun while it lasted.
86
Great. Now I've got "Chantilly Lace" in my head for the rest of the day!
2
Good for you, fellow NWer! You know what I like!
I don't engage these scammers in conversation, but I have used a recording T.S. Eliot reading "The Hollow Men" to much the same effect.
And perhaps not too surprisingly, it works on peddlers of various religions who come calling in person, as well.
I don't engage these scammers in conversation, but I have used a recording T.S. Eliot reading "The Hollow Men" to much the same effect.
And perhaps not too surprisingly, it works on peddlers of various religions who come calling in person, as well.
5
What amazes me is that these guys voluntarily call the IRS and blow the whistle on this scam and the people at the IRS laugh at them!!! This is like the idiot working for the DNC who thought the FBI agent leaving messages on his phone about hacking was an impersonator. How many of these people in responsible positions are smug, complacent, idiots?
“I just feel guilty at that time,” he said. “We are also Indians. We also don’t have money. They also don’t have money.”
A few days later, he called the main switchboard at the I.R.S. and said he wanted to pass on information about a crime. “They are not listening, they are just laughing at me,” he said.
Finally, he was transferred to Ms. Broder, the Federal Trade Commission’s counsel for international consumer protection.
“He was fairly insistent,” she recalled. “He was determined. The number of times he called me was overwhelming. I would guess that is why he was reaching out to me, because he wanted some form of law enforcement to take it down.”
Yet, the government is wasting hundreds of billions spying on everybody while ignoring the information being handed to them repeatedly and earnestly on a silver platter.
“I just feel guilty at that time,” he said. “We are also Indians. We also don’t have money. They also don’t have money.”
A few days later, he called the main switchboard at the I.R.S. and said he wanted to pass on information about a crime. “They are not listening, they are just laughing at me,” he said.
Finally, he was transferred to Ms. Broder, the Federal Trade Commission’s counsel for international consumer protection.
“He was fairly insistent,” she recalled. “He was determined. The number of times he called me was overwhelming. I would guess that is why he was reaching out to me, because he wanted some form of law enforcement to take it down.”
Yet, the government is wasting hundreds of billions spying on everybody while ignoring the information being handed to them repeatedly and earnestly on a silver platter.
24
"What amazes me is that these guys voluntarily call the IRS and ... and the people at the IRS laugh at them!!! ... like the idiot working for the DNC who thought the FBI agent ... was an impersonator. "
Only amazing if I you still hold the quaint belief that someone on the phone is who he claims to be. Call centers of various stripes have destroyed that trust.
Only amazing if I you still hold the quaint belief that someone on the phone is who he claims to be. Call centers of various stripes have destroyed that trust.
7
There really needs to be some PSA (Public Service Announcements) out there -especially on TV warning people of phone and Internet scams. If they were made by the Consumer Finance Protection Bureau they'd probably carry more weight, yet that's one agency the Orange One wants to eliminate.
I do taxes and every chance I get I tell people that the IRS will never, ever call you and they'll never, ever e-mail you about your taxes. The IRS always - always sends a letter first if they want to talk to you. Also, it takes a LONG time for a tax issue to get to the point of having the sheriff come to the house. Actually, it's the U.S. Marshall that helps the IRS.
What amazes me, though, is that people don't know their own history. Wouldn't you know if you owed taxes or a traffic ticket? But I understand age and forgetfulness, too.
These scammers are awful. I guess just keep getting the word out - it might help.
I do taxes and every chance I get I tell people that the IRS will never, ever call you and they'll never, ever e-mail you about your taxes. The IRS always - always sends a letter first if they want to talk to you. Also, it takes a LONG time for a tax issue to get to the point of having the sheriff come to the house. Actually, it's the U.S. Marshall that helps the IRS.
What amazes me, though, is that people don't know their own history. Wouldn't you know if you owed taxes or a traffic ticket? But I understand age and forgetfulness, too.
These scammers are awful. I guess just keep getting the word out - it might help.
21
I am running for President in 2020.
I promise to put the full weight of the CIA, FBI, NSA and the U.S military behind ending these calls.
With drone strikes if needed.
I expect to win all the states, and the District of Columbia by a larger percentage margin than any previous candidate in history.
I promise to put the full weight of the CIA, FBI, NSA and the U.S military behind ending these calls.
With drone strikes if needed.
I expect to win all the states, and the District of Columbia by a larger percentage margin than any previous candidate in history.
9
Plese send cash contribution in small bill to my campagain headquarters in Mumbai.
2
Add loading all airplanes back to front and you have my vote
3
I truly feel sorry about this and apologize on behalf of law abiding Indians, which is most of us. A few bad apples do bring the full barrel a bad name. It is also a fact that the scam was outed by Indians that blew the whistle on this. Indian authorities instantly and brought in the FBI because the scam was guided by someone in America, possibly American citizens.
8
In the movie "Slumdog Millionaire", the call center personnel in India had contemptuous lies to tell to those they were calling in the U.S. Run those images through your mind.
The musical scene at the end of that movie, however, was very catchy, with almost everyone dancing in the train station.
The musical scene at the end of that movie, however, was very catchy, with almost everyone dancing in the train station.
1
Indirect evidence of the need to abolish the IRS in its current form. Singapore tax filing - 30 seconds and a few pages of documents. US tax filing - days and hundreds of pages. One step at a time to reduce bureaucracy and, in turn, the ability of scammers to perpetrate their acts.
2
If those evangelical TV ministries spent a minute or two every show informing viewers of these scams they would reach millions of seniors. This would show us where their hearts really are.
5
A possible cure at very low cost might be to start a fad phone game among American teens to see who can keep scammers and robot callers on the phone for the longest times. It could be done just for bragging rights among their peers. Eventually the scam would no longer be cost effective and the rental rates for office space in Mumbai would go down.
2
Outsourced call centers and now offshored scams are the least of the ways India's talent is ripping off the USA. The "legitimate" call centers routinely have personal information stolen ("compromised"), and the poor pay makes doing so extremely attractive.
Technology outsourcing services have far more access and commit far greater sins, especially in the health care, insurance, credit card processing, banking, ... and every major industry looking to save a buck via globalization. IP and personal information is compromised at scale, routinely. This is never discussed, and would make an excellent future article. It makes the example in this story look insignificant in comparison.
Technology outsourcing services have far more access and commit far greater sins, especially in the health care, insurance, credit card processing, banking, ... and every major industry looking to save a buck via globalization. IP and personal information is compromised at scale, routinely. This is never discussed, and would make an excellent future article. It makes the example in this story look insignificant in comparison.
6
I'd say these scammers have a profession after jail of working in collections agencies. The tactic of preying on American fears of government power and legal action is likely the only thing that will catch people's attention from a random solicitor for more than ten seconds.
Sadly, the reason that the scammer's business expanded so rapidly and the owners were able to afford luxury goods is because it worked. To be able to pay wages and performance bonuses means that there's a lot of gullible answering the phones.
Sadly, the reason that the scammer's business expanded so rapidly and the owners were able to afford luxury goods is because it worked. To be able to pay wages and performance bonuses means that there's a lot of gullible answering the phones.
2
I have a checking and savings account with a major US bank. One day, I went online to do some banking and there was another account listed - a credit card that I had never opened. About a year earlier I had gotten a letter in the mail from this bank with a credit card included and I cut up the card and threw it away.
I did nothing for a while about this new card, but one day I accidentally transferred money from my savings account into this credit card account, rather than my checking account. I was debited $6.00 as a "transfer fee." I put the money back into my savings, called the bank and asked them to cancel the credit card. I had never used it. They refused to close it. I wrote them a letter and got no reply. I called again and they said that unless I spoke with one of their credit counselors about the impact closing this account would have on my credit rating, they would not close the account. I spoke to this credit person and he refused to close the account. I notified the Federal Reserve. They told me they had referred my case back to my bank. I got an apology from the bank and was assured that the account would be closed. This was three months ago. It's still not closed.
I did nothing for a while about this new card, but one day I accidentally transferred money from my savings account into this credit card account, rather than my checking account. I was debited $6.00 as a "transfer fee." I put the money back into my savings, called the bank and asked them to cancel the credit card. I had never used it. They refused to close it. I wrote them a letter and got no reply. I called again and they said that unless I spoke with one of their credit counselors about the impact closing this account would have on my credit rating, they would not close the account. I spoke to this credit person and he refused to close the account. I notified the Federal Reserve. They told me they had referred my case back to my bank. I got an apology from the bank and was assured that the account would be closed. This was three months ago. It's still not closed.
10
Wells Fargo?
4
For the last 5 years I have received calls at least twice a day from "Rachel from Card Services". Its always a different number calling. I find the entire experience comical, annoying, disturbing, and at times, quite entertaining. The FTC doesn't have the intelligence or the interest to shut these operations down.
Its important to note that there are a lot of gullible people and scammers have existed since the beginning of time. This will not change.
Its important to note that there are a lot of gullible people and scammers have existed since the beginning of time. This will not change.
12
If this president elect wants to keep jobs in America, he could begin with banning overseas call centers and pay decent wages to American call center employees.
10
The first email request I received to help bring some unknown persons fortune into this country (a classic scam) can associated with a telephone number. It was straightforward to trace the area code. The operator informed me that it was from the Indian Ocean! This is piracy. We did well stopping pirates in the 18th century. Why can't we stop it today?
6
These scam calls are a fairly consistent part of the day for many American households, especially those of senior citizens. As a public service, all media sources should unite as one voice and inform the masses that these calls come from ruthless swine who, like poisonous spiders, fling out their flimsy filament until they snatch a fearful fly. These dishonest thieves invade the homes of easy victims, terrify them, deny them of the little money they have, and leave them broken. Where is our government? If we cannot stop this abuse, how can we expect to deal with the complex and ultimately much more dangerous possibilities planned for our destruction!
7
" The key to the whole thing, Mr. Dubey decided, was a psychological fact: Americans fear their state."
This factor rarely expressed in the media -- i.e., fear of the state-- provides a powerful insight into the American society's behavior lately. It seems the land of the brave is no longer the land of the free.
This factor rarely expressed in the media -- i.e., fear of the state-- provides a powerful insight into the American society's behavior lately. It seems the land of the brave is no longer the land of the free.
7
Just curious why most Times posed photos of men are face-on, aggressive postures, while so many of women have their hands chastely crossed in front with eyes looking toward heaven, as if they were posing as the madonna (the mother of Jesus, not the singer)? - - - Serious question, times people.
6
With great technology, great scams follow. It is a crime that is impossible to apprehend, prosecute and jail these cyber criminals. The best defense, view every communication with suspicion, hang up repeatedly and, unfortunately, as so aptly described in the article, a person with a distinct accent and introduces himself with a western name, must raise the bar of suspicion higher. In this time of transition, with heightened sensitivities and polarization, the victims of these cyber crimes are newly arrived immigrants who are in fear of the next presidential administartion and susceptible to these scams.
1
An important insight this article reveals at the very end is that the reason most people wish to come here, want that visa because of their worship of the dollar. They do not want to emigrate for liberty or justice or democracy but to get more money. Note the movies these two loved.
Maybe it's time to not only learn how poorer countries will scam us, but they scam us into believing that they want to come here for democracy. It's time to find a way to reform the immigration laws along with strengthening the criteria of immigration of any kind.
These two want to be rewarded when they were part of the crime. How about they never are allowed to and anyone who has worked in a call center like this one does not get to come here either.
That plus pulling out these call centers altogether would send a message to a government there that we have values above the dollar saved by putting them there in the first place.
Maybe it's time to not only learn how poorer countries will scam us, but they scam us into believing that they want to come here for democracy. It's time to find a way to reform the immigration laws along with strengthening the criteria of immigration of any kind.
These two want to be rewarded when they were part of the crime. How about they never are allowed to and anyone who has worked in a call center like this one does not get to come here either.
That plus pulling out these call centers altogether would send a message to a government there that we have values above the dollar saved by putting them there in the first place.
18
It is ironic that swindling is outsourced. But the same goes for such as Microsoft. For $200, you become a member of ASSURE. I know something about tech having worked in it. You get a low-level fellow in India. He starts to correct one problem by taking over my computer and adding a new user while I type frantically not to do that. Two techs later, I have three user names and one is corrupt. Outlook fails after a patch containing bugs. I suddenly have three data files, my email goes to 2015, my categories are wiped out. I am upped to Level II and their response is to download WIN10 which causes the computer to crash. A Level III tech decides to merge all username and Outlook data files (I am avoiding using technical terms as to what they were doing). Word after a patch began not saving files or creating a backup file (ends in *.asd). So a level II tech on 9/7/16 demolishes the system, deletes 3,000 files, documents, the registry and msconfig sys so now there are no paths or plug-ins for apps. When I ask the next Level II (somehow I've been bumped down during this process) to undelete and restore, he says you cannot undo an undelete. I said it was a level one undelete and could be undeleted. I buy an undelete program. The emails and documents are gone but I get back data files and over a month, piece back those files and restore my categories. I hire an outside firm to fix Outlook's send/receive so at least I can email. I rework Word but it still does not save files.
5
I get these phone calls everyday. If the US government really cared about this problem, it would fix it at its source: the telecom companies. Without the ability to make high-speed automated phone calls, these scamming centers would quickly close down.
The phone companies make a lot of money from leasing its trunk lines, so naturally claim that it is technically impossible to block the calls. To that I say "hogwash"! When thousands of calls originate from the same point, the phone companies definitely have the ability to identify those calls and immediately block them.
This problem will not stop as long as the phone companies have a profit motive for the problem continuing, and the government refuses to force those companies to take action.
The phone companies make a lot of money from leasing its trunk lines, so naturally claim that it is technically impossible to block the calls. To that I say "hogwash"! When thousands of calls originate from the same point, the phone companies definitely have the ability to identify those calls and immediately block them.
This problem will not stop as long as the phone companies have a profit motive for the problem continuing, and the government refuses to force those companies to take action.
56
Every Indian should read this article, what a shame to the country!
5
Some folks before asked about status of investigation, it's king pin etc.
I live in india and can tell what is reported here in the newspapers.
There are so many scams here in india where scammers are scamming their own fellow Indians- throw in Nigerians, the authorities are overwhelmed.
It has been reported that the "kingpin" has a ascended and reported to be living in the middle east.
It has also been reported that some arrests have been made in the USA.
For the most part, this story has largely disappeared in the newspapers. Reason being Indian government itself has perpetrated the biggest scam on its citizens with demonetization.
As to how this investigation will unfold, here is a factoid.
When someone is arrested in such highly publicized crime, it typical takes 3 to 5 years to actually file a charge sheet. And these charge sheets number into thousands of pages.
So imagine, after charges are filed, discovery motions etc, an accused would be tried no sooner than 8 plus years.
And this crime involves victims in foreign countries, so add another 5 years.
I am expecting first verdict in 2030 at the earliest.
I live in india and can tell what is reported here in the newspapers.
There are so many scams here in india where scammers are scamming their own fellow Indians- throw in Nigerians, the authorities are overwhelmed.
It has been reported that the "kingpin" has a ascended and reported to be living in the middle east.
It has also been reported that some arrests have been made in the USA.
For the most part, this story has largely disappeared in the newspapers. Reason being Indian government itself has perpetrated the biggest scam on its citizens with demonetization.
As to how this investigation will unfold, here is a factoid.
When someone is arrested in such highly publicized crime, it typical takes 3 to 5 years to actually file a charge sheet. And these charge sheets number into thousands of pages.
So imagine, after charges are filed, discovery motions etc, an accused would be tried no sooner than 8 plus years.
And this crime involves victims in foreign countries, so add another 5 years.
I am expecting first verdict in 2030 at the earliest.
17
Does it surprise anyone here ? Americans generally open their door with a gun ( at least in the south )..... but we opened this call center door with such ease and inviting lots of opportunities for fraud and crime !
2
I was gotten by one posing as an Apple employee. Screen froze, virus is in this computer call this number which was in large font. After letting him in my computer-said he was in New Jersey when asked his location as I could tell he was Indian-I needed to buy virus protection at $995 plus tax -$1100 total-called son in New Jersey who is in high tech computers- man said who you talking to? Long story short had given my bank account info but at last minute hung up. Wells Fargo closed the account as I was on way racing to the bank! When I called local Apple Store they said don't call that number-gotten calls all day about this! Feel stupid! Son said Mom, that's what you paid for the Apple-you could just throw it out and buy another! I did ask isn't that a little expensive? Learned a lesson ! These guys are sharp! Oh, aside -we all don't answer the door with a loaded shotgun in the South! We don't own a gun !
2
''Americans generally open their door with a gun ( at least in the south ''
That is the elitist coastal attitude that got Donald Trump elected.
And in cities like Detroit, Baltimore,Chicago, and New Orleans, (all controlled by the Democratic Party), perhaps prudent behavior.
That is the elitist coastal attitude that got Donald Trump elected.
And in cities like Detroit, Baltimore,Chicago, and New Orleans, (all controlled by the Democratic Party), perhaps prudent behavior.
6
Don't accept call service from abroad, they have no security that is trustworthy and the use of foreign based systems is part of the way hackers are defrauding and destroying the utility of the internet. It is clear that Russia is actively promoting hacking as an industry, a way to rob and steal from 'foreigners' and no one is ever prosecuted. Refuse to do business with countries that shelter fraud, stay away from them and avoid contact with any of their nationals. The risk is apparent. Why take a chance with your purse and privacy? Our goodwill is used against us. We need to stop acting like a bunch of fools.
8
They don't call Americans on identifiable foreign phone lines. They jack into inexpensive american service with spoofed or real phone numbers. Filipinos and Indians both very often have smoothed their accents and studied the American Carnie way before they make their first call.
5
I have such distain for phone scammers. The 'IT department from Windows' would call to tell me that I have a problem with my PC 4 times a week. Then the "IRS" called to tell me that I would be arrested if I didn't pay them right away over the phone.
I tried everything from telling them I knew they were they scamming me right up front to pretending to go along and would tell them at the end that I just kept them from scamming someone else while I waisted their time. The best line I came up with was just to ask " How many elderly people have you scammed today? Because God will ask you that when you die"
Then I signed up with a free service called NOMOROBO (no more robo calls). They won a government sponsored contest that wanted a way to block robo calls-calls dialed by computers and telemarketers. I have not had a scammer call come through since I signed up. (I do not work for the NOMOROBO company).
Along with yourself if you have an elder friend or parent who are vulnerable to becoming a victim of phone scammers sign them up for NOMOROBO - go to nomorobo.com. Then you will not have to worry about them picking up the phone and being drawn into scams. It also blocks regular telemarketers. Maybe If everyone signed up then the scammers would stop-
I tried everything from telling them I knew they were they scamming me right up front to pretending to go along and would tell them at the end that I just kept them from scamming someone else while I waisted their time. The best line I came up with was just to ask " How many elderly people have you scammed today? Because God will ask you that when you die"
Then I signed up with a free service called NOMOROBO (no more robo calls). They won a government sponsored contest that wanted a way to block robo calls-calls dialed by computers and telemarketers. I have not had a scammer call come through since I signed up. (I do not work for the NOMOROBO company).
Along with yourself if you have an elder friend or parent who are vulnerable to becoming a victim of phone scammers sign them up for NOMOROBO - go to nomorobo.com. Then you will not have to worry about them picking up the phone and being drawn into scams. It also blocks regular telemarketers. Maybe If everyone signed up then the scammers would stop-
21
There seems to be so many snakes in this dark cesspool with different agendas.
Even the whistle blowers think they deserve visa !
U. S. companies need to give some thought to having off shore call centers for one. If someone acts up here with a scam they can nip it in the bud by either firing the person or having them arrested.
I'm glad the NYT is here to shine a light on these scams and make people aware of these frauds. Stay vigilant people !
Even the whistle blowers think they deserve visa !
U. S. companies need to give some thought to having off shore call centers for one. If someone acts up here with a scam they can nip it in the bud by either firing the person or having them arrested.
I'm glad the NYT is here to shine a light on these scams and make people aware of these frauds. Stay vigilant people !
8
Welcome to our world as we have also been receiving these phone calls for some time. They either 1.pretend to be IRS or other Tax office agents; 2. say there is a problem with Windows and 'they are here to help"; 3 say there is a virus that they need to extinguish on your computer. Best to warn everyone, particularly the elderly and non-tech savvy, that they should never give out File numbers or passwords. If they feel uneasy, get them to ask the caller for a number to phone back. This doesn't always work of course as, once, the number I was given was legit. but routed back to India.
4
I answer the phone about twice a week. If the call is important, the caller will leave a message. If people really want to contact me, they will use email. I will choose which ones I will read in my own time and the remainder go to trash.
I am 80 years old and not as dimwit as you young people suppose. I TRUST NO ONE!
I am 80 years old and not as dimwit as you young people suppose. I TRUST NO ONE!
42
Honestly, I welcome the "Microsoft" calls as a source of entertainment. I'm semi-retired and when I hear the heavily-accented voice tell me my computer is "sending signals it is infected", I stop everything and try to keep the scammer on the phone as long as possible, both to prevent them preying on someone innocent and just maybe, instilling a sense of shame.
I pretend to be as ignorant as possible. No, I don't use a computer, but my son does. The "signals" must be coming from his bedroom. No, he isn't home. No, I can't boot his computer. But we've had this problem before, I say, and I paid "Microsoft" $300 to fix it. Oh, but does this ever get the caller's interest. At this point, I apologize that I must walk away for a moment, but please stay on the line. You bet they will.
Ten (plus) minutes later, I'm back. I've been thinking about this over. I can't keep paying "Microsoft" for repairs, so I'm taking away my son's computer. He doesn't really need it for schoolwork. I don't believe what his teachers say about possible college science scholarships. I didn't have a computer when I was his age and I turned out fine. I want to thank you for bringing this to my family's attention. You've done us all a great favor and I want you to think about what you've done for us, just as you go to sleep tonight.
I pretend to be as ignorant as possible. No, I don't use a computer, but my son does. The "signals" must be coming from his bedroom. No, he isn't home. No, I can't boot his computer. But we've had this problem before, I say, and I paid "Microsoft" $300 to fix it. Oh, but does this ever get the caller's interest. At this point, I apologize that I must walk away for a moment, but please stay on the line. You bet they will.
Ten (plus) minutes later, I'm back. I've been thinking about this over. I can't keep paying "Microsoft" for repairs, so I'm taking away my son's computer. He doesn't really need it for schoolwork. I don't believe what his teachers say about possible college science scholarships. I didn't have a computer when I was his age and I turned out fine. I want to thank you for bringing this to my family's attention. You've done us all a great favor and I want you to think about what you've done for us, just as you go to sleep tonight.
37
Can't help but wonder why 5 days elapsed between the first raid and the second one - enough time to clear out all evidence? "Empty. Nothing. Not a piece of paper." Maybe next time don't give the perpetrators 5 days' notice.
13
It took them 5 days to find out the headquarters of the operation was in Ahmedabad, which is in a neighboring state to Mumbai, where the first raid took place. It was reportedly all done by the local police with no FBI or other US involvment. And by local, not just "Indian", but parochial - kind of like Long Island PD raiding the first place and then informing the cops in Jersey City the HQ was there.
2
I received many of these fake IRS calls over the past year, sometimes often as three a day, and filed many reports about them with the FCC. Of course I knew the calls were fraudulent, but the recorded messages were so aggressive that I felt a chill while listening to them, and can imagine how frightening they were to older and more naive recipients. Once I called back and spoke to a young Indian man, who admitted he knew it was a fraud and that he was committing a crime. When I demanded he stop working for the call center, he unconvincingly said he would. Like the young whistle blowers in your article, he had little remorse for the his part in the scam, and nothing I could say seemed to convince him of its seriousness.
7
I also have reported some of these calls to the FBI as wire fraud.
5
Scams like this were the reason I gave up my landline. I got tired of paying $50 a month to be harassed by telemarketers and scammers. The phone company could easily block these calls, but don't. At least with a mobile phone the calls are few and far between and very easy to block.
Give up your landline--you'll save $600 or more a year and be relatively free of constant harassment.
Give up your landline--you'll save $600 or more a year and be relatively free of constant harassment.
14
Despite the progress that India has made in recent years, it largely remains a desperately poor and corrupt country. There are still many millions living in poverty for whom there is never going to be a decent job. Thankfully, US and India share good relations. The US government needs to setup a hotline with Indian law enforcement to crack down on these crimes at the earliest. I think this is possible. There just needs to be will on the part of US government.
17
No, the thing to do is for the government to start up its own corrupt boiler rooms right here in the states and start scammin' the induns back! Better yet, maybe set them up in India and even hire genuine induns to man those phone banks! Getting even ironically, is the best revenge!
"Steeped in Corruption & Scams"
2
Unfortunately, I doubt that Indian law enforcement has any interest in stopping these scams. They bring money into the country, after all. And since the Trump administration plans to turn the US into a third world country we can look forward to a time when we'll be grateful for jobs as scammers.
The moral of the story is our government simply does not want to protect us.
12
Get real.
You are in charge of picking up and answering the phone.
You are in charge of not giving any information to anyone who has no right to have it.
You are in charge of learning how to secure your information when you use a sophisticated piece of communication equipment like a smart phone, tablet or computer.
The NYT is trying to put the knowledge out there for all of us to help you protect yourself and your family.
Refuse to do business with any company that uses a call center outside the United States.
Call your Senator and your Representative and express your interest in curbing these businesses.
You, not the government are still in charge of how you respond.
And yes strengthen the FTC and the FCC to protect our rights not to be scammed.
Thanks Ms Broder...
You are in charge of picking up and answering the phone.
You are in charge of not giving any information to anyone who has no right to have it.
You are in charge of learning how to secure your information when you use a sophisticated piece of communication equipment like a smart phone, tablet or computer.
The NYT is trying to put the knowledge out there for all of us to help you protect yourself and your family.
Refuse to do business with any company that uses a call center outside the United States.
Call your Senator and your Representative and express your interest in curbing these businesses.
You, not the government are still in charge of how you respond.
And yes strengthen the FTC and the FCC to protect our rights not to be scammed.
Thanks Ms Broder...
5
I get a bunch of these scams on my iPhone, which indicates they come from various U.S. area codes. They either offer some sort of Florida vacation or something related to a credit card.
Either I hang up, play dumb and ask specifics about WHICH credit card, or trash talk to the person, usually telling them to perform incest.
Either I hang up, play dumb and ask specifics about WHICH credit card, or trash talk to the person, usually telling them to perform incest.
9
There are millions of youth added to Indian demographics every month - if the economy does not grow enough to give them jobs, their active minds will seek the devious ploys continually.
What is next?
Could the argument be applied on a global scale as well - if the teeming youth across the globe are not afforded opportunities through global growth, they will use internet, global connectivity to torment our lives?
Mr Trump - what say you?
What is next?
Could the argument be applied on a global scale as well - if the teeming youth across the globe are not afforded opportunities through global growth, they will use internet, global connectivity to torment our lives?
Mr Trump - what say you?
8
These scams aren't being created by deviant unemployed youths, they are run by sophisticated criminals with the money to rent offices, equipment and the software and systems to operate a call center. These types of criminals are constantly thinking up ways to defraud. in India it's the IRS scam, in Russia and Romania it's malware and holding your computer data for ransom. Don't blame misguided young people, blame the organized crime syndicates running these operations.
7
Received a call from 'FBI' (collaborated by caller ID) telling me of warrant for arrest for something IRS related. Spoke with three different heavily accented men - all with American whitebread names. When the last one grossly mispronounced affidavit, I finally called him out as being a scammer. Though recognizable as a scam on many points, I can see why some one may fall for it - until you get to sending money by any other method than check to the US Treasury.
11
I got an idea...our government should tell India shut these people down or else!
6
Or else what?
6
Maybe like Hillary to the bankers and Obama to Putin we should just tell them to "Knock it Off!" And just wait and watch the results roll in? :)
Never answer any call from an unfamiliar number. Google afterwards and you might find out it is from the cable company - very unlikely. Protect elderly parents and grandparents from these scams - they are from a generation that still believes that official sounding calls must be real.
8
I have not had the IRS scammers, mostly the your computer is infected ones.
I just play along with them use a voice that makes me sound old, and hesitant. Talk like I don't understand and make them go over their instructions as man time as can get them to. They think I am a mark, and get frustrates wen I don't understand their instructions. Oh I am trying I keep saying, and keep asking dumb questions. I have had them swear and yell at me, give them false information, string them along until they give up.
Since your number is on several lists it does not top the calls, but they are getting fewer. But the American companies are just as bad, they seem to congregate in Florida, and then there are the cruise lines.I just don't have the time nd effort to take them to court, I think a smart lawyer could make a good living suing these scum, it is worth $1500 a call, and I would be happy to give them $1400 of it, just the $100 for a finder fee. So any recent law school grads want to make a buck, there is and opportunity.
I just play along with them use a voice that makes me sound old, and hesitant. Talk like I don't understand and make them go over their instructions as man time as can get them to. They think I am a mark, and get frustrates wen I don't understand their instructions. Oh I am trying I keep saying, and keep asking dumb questions. I have had them swear and yell at me, give them false information, string them along until they give up.
Since your number is on several lists it does not top the calls, but they are getting fewer. But the American companies are just as bad, they seem to congregate in Florida, and then there are the cruise lines.I just don't have the time nd effort to take them to court, I think a smart lawyer could make a good living suing these scum, it is worth $1500 a call, and I would be happy to give them $1400 of it, just the $100 for a finder fee. So any recent law school grads want to make a buck, there is and opportunity.
10
Go to nomorobo.com It really does work.
8
I've taken to answering these phone calls by saying, "Does your mother know you are a thief? Is she proud of you?"
15
Do not give these guys visas. They are criminals. Their effort to take down the call center was for personal profit. They have no moral compass and we don't need more criminals.
22
Note to all. The IRS does not call you or email you. They communicate through the mail. The postal mail. That is all
35
The computer is the big, bright shiny object of our era. While we were busy watching it work wonders, our pockets were picked. Business, government and private citizens set themselves up for a fleecing by not even considering a downside to it all.
In exchange for convenience, we made ourselves vulnerable.
It is hard to hack a piece of paper from a call center halfway around the globe. Sometimes I wonder if we should all stop running forward and back up a bit to take another look at the road ahead before proceeding.
In exchange for convenience, we made ourselves vulnerable.
It is hard to hack a piece of paper from a call center halfway around the globe. Sometimes I wonder if we should all stop running forward and back up a bit to take another look at the road ahead before proceeding.
8
One of the best responses to the phone scam was a man who wrote to the local paper about his tactics. He told the caller to please take his wife. Then he asked what she should wear when she went to court and jail. He further asked if he could have conjugal visits during holidays. He said the caller hung up in frustration. With his caller ID, he called the person back and asked why he hung up on him. Needless to say, he never got called again.
15
Unfortunately a great many people have fallen prey to these telephonic schemes. People who are likely leading marginal lives, made more marginal with a bit of foreign guile. Yet after reading a great many replies to this article by sophisticated New York Times readers, with many saying, "a fool and their money will be departed", "...I have received many calls from these scammers [but I do "x" because I'm intelligent and a proud member of MENSA, blah blah blah]. Great. I get it. Especially the sympathetic views about those poor Indians wanting visas. Understood. This scheme is just a microcosm of the bank bailouts and the blame and suffering shifting toward the poor and marginal in the US outside New York City. Don't be so dumbfounded wondering why so many people voted for Trump. At least Benjamin Franklin understood that "Democracy is two wolves and a sheep deciding what's for dinner"
16
You can demean those who fell for the scam, but what excuse is there for a lack of security in banking, industry, and yes, even government computer networks???
7
I agree that our abstract and physical infrastructures are in need of a major overhaul. That people were misled in the 80s by a misguided view on Keynesian expansionary economics using our wealth instead on the chaos and destruction of the Vietnam war. With the only return on that being PTSD veterans living under a bridge somewhere (or dead by now), and the wild inflation of the 70s. Of course Ronald Regan was elected, and that PTSD veteran never received keen advice from financial planners sipping on his $13 hipster brew. Now, with the help of Clinton's Rubinism of the 90s, free market liberals preach bond market disaster, and Alan Greenspan's the-markets-are-going-to-make-everyone-rich gospel all led to a shortfall in expenditures that prolonged our recession. Combined with Republicans who are rallying behind Trump whose world view is looking at the US Gov. as Carl Ichan would look at a corporation he is about to devour as a corporate raider, our country is coming apart at the seams. So what rough beast is slouching toward D.C. come January 20th you might wonder?
3
I constantly get the "virus in the computer" call. Depending on my mood, sometimes I enquire about the proclivities of their female relatives, and their proclivities for the sacred cow;and sometimes I pretend to be confused as how to allow them to "remote" my computer. That can take about 15 minutes while expressing high anxiety that my computer is not functioning correctly.
They constantly change phone numbers. One phone number I researched was for the Federal Reserve of New York. I tried to contact them to report the unauthorized use of their number, but there is no human contact extension; only a form to convey information or leave a detailed message.
They constantly change phone numbers. One phone number I researched was for the Federal Reserve of New York. I tried to contact them to report the unauthorized use of their number, but there is no human contact extension; only a form to convey information or leave a detailed message.
5
I'll bet there are ways to report people who are cheating them!
1
When I read the story, it's easy to guess what may be the possible reason for these boys not receiving the whistleblower reward. There is a good chance, the police that raided the office probably got rewarded. This is how it works in India. Unfortunately it is one of the most corrupt nation.
What surprises me most about the article is that there is no discussion around who were the owners/promoters of these call centers? What was their fate? Did they receive severe penalties? Or did they walk free by bribing the corrupt judges and police officers? Was any of the stolen money recovered? Did any of the people who lost their money ever compensated from recovered monies? What's been done to avoid this in the future? Can any of the criminals behind these acts be extradited and face criminal charges in the US?
What surprises me most about the article is that there is no discussion around who were the owners/promoters of these call centers? What was their fate? Did they receive severe penalties? Or did they walk free by bribing the corrupt judges and police officers? Was any of the stolen money recovered? Did any of the people who lost their money ever compensated from recovered monies? What's been done to avoid this in the future? Can any of the criminals behind these acts be extradited and face criminal charges in the US?
19
People with dementia and pre-dementia are hugely at risk for this type of crime. Since such people can't tell anything is wrong with them, they refuse to heed warnings. We finally had my mother declared incompetent so that she would not have access to her assets, but it then took us four months and about 100 hours on the phone to get Vanguard to honor the new trust agreement. We figure that, in the prior five years, she lost about $70,000 to unscrupulous contractors and in unnecessary taxes because she kept churning her investments. My mother worked hourly wage jobs her whole life. $70,000 was a lot of bussed tables. We need better ways to protect such people.
34
The only person who can/will protect elderly relatives are their own relatives or real friends. I sympathize with your troubles with Vanguard. I was declared my aunt's guardian. I personally travelled to NYC to Bowery Savings Bank with the copy of the order and asked for a check for the balance of her account to be made out to her, not me. After an hour of arguing up the food chain I told one of their lawyers that I would lie down in the lobby unless they gave me the check. That worked.
1
In Los Angeles (and possibly other parts of the U.S.) there is a very annoying phone scam that proceeds as follows: the caller states that he or she is a licensed contractor who has just finished a job in your neighborhood, and since he or she has some free time they would be willing to come to your house to give you free estimates on any home repairs you might need or home improvements you might want. I have been getting this call, which obviously comes from a call center, three to five times per week for the last six months. I usually ask the caller for their contractor license number and in most cases they then hang up, but in one case the caller said "tell me your social security number and I'll tell you my license number." I have heard various theories as to how this scam works: they send two or more people to your house and when one is discussing what they propose to do the others are casing your house or perhaps stealing items; or they actually do home repairs which are very shoddy. This must be a profitable scam because it continues unabated.
16
I work at home so I get these occasionally. On a slow day, I've kept them on the phone for up to 14 minutes. I channel a computer illiterate 90 year old....when I'm done with "microsoft tech support" I ask them what the Apple key on my computer does...that gets them to hang up.
It was more fun when the IRS called. It was a local caller ID which came back as a cell phone..and forwarded to an offshore boiler room. I set my fax machine to autodial, and learned that there were six people in the boiler room, none of them knew what a fax auto-beep sounded like, and that machine went for four-five hours before they pulled the plug. Clearly Caller ID didn't get past the number forward. Hearing them get angry and say "THIS IS THE IRS ! WE WILL ARREST YOU" was very, very funny and I was glad I kept them from actually scamming someone, even for a few hours.
My wife just asks "Does your mother know what you do for a living ? What does she think of it ?".
Scambaiting these folks is the Lord's work.
It was more fun when the IRS called. It was a local caller ID which came back as a cell phone..and forwarded to an offshore boiler room. I set my fax machine to autodial, and learned that there were six people in the boiler room, none of them knew what a fax auto-beep sounded like, and that machine went for four-five hours before they pulled the plug. Clearly Caller ID didn't get past the number forward. Hearing them get angry and say "THIS IS THE IRS ! WE WILL ARREST YOU" was very, very funny and I was glad I kept them from actually scamming someone, even for a few hours.
My wife just asks "Does your mother know what you do for a living ? What does she think of it ?".
Scambaiting these folks is the Lord's work.
31
I do not give info over the phone or in response to email. If a caller insists they must have information, I ask for a number where they can be reached and say I will call back when it is more convenient. An email request, no matter how official looking, could be a scam, so I close the email and go directly to the site that supposedly wants info. In both the phone and email instances, most demands for action are attempts at fraud, and I turn them in -- EVERY one of them.
8
People who run a business out of their homes, people expecting a call from someone, people selling a car or something and I could go on. You should now get the picture.
3
I remember the very old-fashioned scammers. The ones who knocked on peoples' doors (mostly the trusting-elderly) about a 'sick tree'; a roof or driveway problem that needed fixing. Then, the first fraud-calls started going out. Often the victims seemed to be blamed for their gullibility.
It kept entering my mind -- where is the societal outrage towards what is being done? Don't people really care -- or, is this a sign of an underlying cynicism that harkens back to the 1940's/50's:'Every one has his price' . . . 'Anything for a buck' . . .'the rat-race' . . . 'get him by the ____'
Today, we are suffering their full fruition with the lack of integrity and ethics that pervades too much of our economic and political life.
It kept entering my mind -- where is the societal outrage towards what is being done? Don't people really care -- or, is this a sign of an underlying cynicism that harkens back to the 1940's/50's:'Every one has his price' . . . 'Anything for a buck' . . .'the rat-race' . . . 'get him by the ____'
Today, we are suffering their full fruition with the lack of integrity and ethics that pervades too much of our economic and political life.
14
In the past 2 years I've had 4 calls from the IRS scammers and 2 from the tech scammers. I am well informed thankfully and knew that they were fraudulent. Each time I told them that they were abusive and threatening. It is tragic that they have terrorized so many people and stolen money that will never be recovered . Why are we not better protected? Because this seems like the tip of a very dangerous iceberg.
12
I suppose I get one of these Indian-accented scam calls every day among several other robo marketing calls. Most every call shows up on my caller ID as originating from a U.S. city.
9
Many people ask "what can be done?"
I'll tell you: demand that the FCC force the telecom companies to fix caller ID so that it can't be spoofed. And, while we're at it, force the credit card companies to implement two-factor authentication. And, finally, why must we pay to "protect our credit"? That's a *major* scam, right there. How can we do this? Through the power of our government. That's what it's *for*.
I'll tell you: demand that the FCC force the telecom companies to fix caller ID so that it can't be spoofed. And, while we're at it, force the credit card companies to implement two-factor authentication. And, finally, why must we pay to "protect our credit"? That's a *major* scam, right there. How can we do this? Through the power of our government. That's what it's *for*.
17
Call centers are a hotbed of cyber atrocities.
These jobs require little technical skills and setup, and should be top on the list to bring back to our country : note to Trump.
The telecom companies share equal blame by allowing such operations on their infrastructure : another note to Trump.
The Indian government does not feel any pressure or responsibility to rope in such crimes : one more note to Trump.
Are you taking notes, Mr. Trump ?
These jobs require little technical skills and setup, and should be top on the list to bring back to our country : note to Trump.
The telecom companies share equal blame by allowing such operations on their infrastructure : another note to Trump.
The Indian government does not feel any pressure or responsibility to rope in such crimes : one more note to Trump.
Are you taking notes, Mr. Trump ?
25
Too bad Trump outsources his manufacturing, hires foreign workers on visas, and hires illegal immigrants.
18
No, too busy tweeting.
1
My mother, 81, was dying of cancer. Since the hospice nurse was there, I answered the phone to hear a threat that from the IRS and that the police were on their way to arrest my parents over fraudulent foreign bank accounts. My father had died 2 years before. I'll give you his new address.
I asked them to send the police and to stay on the line with me until they arrived. Poof, they hung up.
I knew my parents were as honest as the day is long and this was a scam. But, had my sick Mom answered, with all she was going through...she wold have freaked out.
I called the police and filed a report. They knew all about it. I asked why, if it was such common knowledge, they were not warning the senior's about this. No real good answer.
That was June 2014.
Those freaks called my house too. I asked them "do you believe in God? Because what you are doing is wrong and God will punish you Scammer." Coincidently, no more calls to me from them.
I asked them to send the police and to stay on the line with me until they arrived. Poof, they hung up.
I knew my parents were as honest as the day is long and this was a scam. But, had my sick Mom answered, with all she was going through...she wold have freaked out.
I called the police and filed a report. They knew all about it. I asked why, if it was such common knowledge, they were not warning the senior's about this. No real good answer.
That was June 2014.
Those freaks called my house too. I asked them "do you believe in God? Because what you are doing is wrong and God will punish you Scammer." Coincidently, no more calls to me from them.
18
My favorites are the faux-IRS calls. The last time one of these guys threatened to send the police to my door to arrest me for non-payment of back taxes, I told him to make sure he sent a really cute, young "officer" and that looked forward to meeting him. I was about to go into further details regarding preferred physical attributes when my would-be scammer hung up. We vulnerable, gullible old ladies have to find amusement somewhere, after all. Scammers aren't smart; they're just dumb criminal.
18
'A fool and his/her money are soon parted'. I've had numerous phone calls from both the 'I.R.S.' and 'Revenue Canada' as I'm a dual citizen. They started once I'd turned 65. They continue to this day. That neither entity communicates with tax-payers by phone seems to matter not. I feel pity for those who fall for these scams but, when they allow their emotions to overcomes their logic, they're going to fall prey.
4
I left india 50 years ago and returned here 18 months back to live in "modern" india.
Yes, this news has been covered here locally.
What the young man said about "not being afraid" of police will probably happen in this case also. If justice delayed is justice denied, in india justice is so delayed that this young man's grand children will probably help him into the court when he is tried if ever.
To me, the sorry part of the story are those two pix. The youth are standing in garbage filled street and the call center building also appears to be in shambles. With all this money flying around, no one cares about fixing anything as logood so they are making money.
Indians simply love money - an attachment hard to describe.
Call centers for Indian IT companies here including Tata's train their operators to have phony British accents. I have to remind them that it does not impress me. I get many calls asking for bills you be paid which were settled long ago.
Unfortunately, this whole IT culture here is that you either emigrate or "connect" with the West. The last comment about getting visas to america is telling.
And it provides some back up for American IT professionals who were laid off but had to train cheap Indian labor brought in under H1B scam.
Time for Congress to really a dress this whole Visa scam.
Yes, this news has been covered here locally.
What the young man said about "not being afraid" of police will probably happen in this case also. If justice delayed is justice denied, in india justice is so delayed that this young man's grand children will probably help him into the court when he is tried if ever.
To me, the sorry part of the story are those two pix. The youth are standing in garbage filled street and the call center building also appears to be in shambles. With all this money flying around, no one cares about fixing anything as logood so they are making money.
Indians simply love money - an attachment hard to describe.
Call centers for Indian IT companies here including Tata's train their operators to have phony British accents. I have to remind them that it does not impress me. I get many calls asking for bills you be paid which were settled long ago.
Unfortunately, this whole IT culture here is that you either emigrate or "connect" with the West. The last comment about getting visas to america is telling.
And it provides some back up for American IT professionals who were laid off but had to train cheap Indian labor brought in under H1B scam.
Time for Congress to really a dress this whole Visa scam.
10
Hi Neil M, I totally agree with you. It is not the India of my boyhood. Your statement about their love for money is right on the nail. In my last thee visits to India,I observed crooked doctors/hospitals, tech support companies, and politicians. And when if an Indian living in the west happen to die, the priest do the scamming to the relatives of the dead, with their scam ransom-rituals. It is very painful personally to me to see what has happened to India.
13
I know quite a few Indians, and most of them are decent, nice people. It's a pity they have to go through so much.
But what is wrong with a British accent, anyway?
But what is wrong with a British accent, anyway?
3
I get these calls all the time. Computer viruses, discount drugs, the IRS, charities, you name it. I've also won an amazing number of "free trips" in contests I've never heard of. A few years back our local police chief put a notice in the paper saying that the callers purporting to be local officers raising funds for bereaved families were phonies.
So if I don't know the caller, I hang up. Immediately. If you're real, write me a letter.
So if I don't know the caller, I hang up. Immediately. If you're real, write me a letter.
12
Yeah, I won a lot of contests for free all-expense-paid cruises to the Bahamas.
5
I always enjoy connecting the scammers to Jolly Roger for some entertainment:
http://www.jollyrogertelco.com/
The longer Jolly Roger keeps them on the phone, the less time they have to rob someone :)
http://www.jollyrogertelco.com/
The longer Jolly Roger keeps them on the phone, the less time they have to rob someone :)
5
Frankly, as we have seen over the last number of years, on several levels, Americans are among the easiest people on the planet to scam.
6
Ownage pranks on YouTube had a video on this.
2
Oh really...I've been receiving these crank calls from E. Indians for years. This is a revelation? What took you so long to cover this story?
5
These two gentlemen should be acknowledged for their effort to bring this scam operation to the attention of U.S. officials. I've gotten two or three calls a day for various scams many times. Nothing can be done about this? The IRS laughed at it? And the US gave Indian authorities no information regarding this illegal operation?
Thank you India for looking after we Americans. It doesn't seem as anyone here at home is going to help.
Thank you India for looking after we Americans. It doesn't seem as anyone here at home is going to help.
3
Scary to say the least. It is compounded by the fact that the CEO of Microsoft is of Indian origin and the fact that Microsoft has legit call center in India. That makes it very difficult to distinguish between the legit from the scam artists. Hoping Trump Presidency can come down strongly on these practices, unlike the current cerebral but ineffective admininstration
6
I am American who was brought up in India so I speak fluent Hindi. When I got the IRS calls I talked back to the callers in Hindi and then after they blocked my number I used different phones (including friends' cell phones) to call back and tell the scammers in Hindi and in very culturally-appropriate ways that what they were doing was shameful. Some were intrigued how someone with such an Anglo-sounding name knew Hindi. For me this was an amusing diversion, but the sad part is that these scams prey on the elderly and vulnerable.
11
I can't be the only one who keeps these guys - all telephone scammers - on the line as long as possible until they finally get angry and hang up.
5
Has anyone heard of the mail scam going around wealthy suburbs? Upper middle class (and above) professional men receive letters in the mail addressed specifically to them. They are informed by the anonymous scammer that he holds evidence that the man has been cheating on his wife. In very subtle but threatening language, specific directions are given for the scam victim to make a blind payment of $2000. to a website, using bitcoin. The person being scammed is told that if he does not comply, his wife will be notified. So many men are "on the edge" in their fidelity to their marriage vows, God knows how many gladly fork over $2000. to make the potential problem go away. Meanwhile, no one tells anyone else about being scammed; they are just happy for this threat to evaporate, and $2K doesn't seem all that much to pay, since many truly are engaged in activities that could be considered "cheating"--like pornography, attending strip clubs, or having an extra-marital affair.
4
I hate these fake Microsoft calls. I work in IT and I used to view them as a challenge, even setting up a test PC to understand their techniques. It was mildly interesting at first, but it's so common that I've lost all patience with it, mostly because the telecom companies and the government could easily make this risky, difficult or both but both are preoccupied, cramming fraudulent charges on bills or persecuting American technology companies for providing the encryption necessary for safety on the internet.
I've lost enough patience that I'm now outright hostile to them, personally insulting them in ways that kind of make me feel guilty. It's surprising how many will take the bait and scream at you, which of course means I have won and I can continue to pile on.
I've lost enough patience that I'm now outright hostile to them, personally insulting them in ways that kind of make me feel guilty. It's surprising how many will take the bait and scream at you, which of course means I have won and I can continue to pile on.
26
It is easy to see why people are duped by these frauds. I've received at least 1/2 dozen calls over the past two years from "the Microsoft Security Center" (or the like) saying that they have detected a virus on my computer and need my logon information to clear it. I string them along by asking which of my two computers is affected...my Mac or PC? Every time they say "PC" at which time I tell them I don't own one, and then educate them as loudly as I can with some new vocabulary words and phrases.
3
The outsourcing of basic services is a huge threat to American citizens. Somewhere in India or other countries, there are complete records of American tax returns, Social Security numbers, how much people make per year, their addresses and everything else. Putting all of this information in foreign hands is dangerous.
What happens, additionally, if international fiber optic cables are cut? Where would all of that information go and how would it be brought back here? What happens if there is a major, international war? (This same question applies to the assembly of electronics including computers and smartphones. How long would it take to set up assembly here? How many of the parts could not be obtained at all?)
We are selling out our own nation in the name of profit. It is not surprising that this is coming back to haunt us and it could get much, much worse in the future.
The worst part day by day is that the people on the other end of the phone can't understand you and you can't understand them. In my own case, I once had to buy a new last minute airline ticket back from Mexico because the person on the other end of the call did not complete my rerouting request. In general, you can't get anything constructive done across 10,000 miles where cultural differences and lack of knowledge impact what occurs. This is a massive disservice to the customers of American businesses, but the owners/managers don't care because they get to keep more money.
What happens, additionally, if international fiber optic cables are cut? Where would all of that information go and how would it be brought back here? What happens if there is a major, international war? (This same question applies to the assembly of electronics including computers and smartphones. How long would it take to set up assembly here? How many of the parts could not be obtained at all?)
We are selling out our own nation in the name of profit. It is not surprising that this is coming back to haunt us and it could get much, much worse in the future.
The worst part day by day is that the people on the other end of the phone can't understand you and you can't understand them. In my own case, I once had to buy a new last minute airline ticket back from Mexico because the person on the other end of the call did not complete my rerouting request. In general, you can't get anything constructive done across 10,000 miles where cultural differences and lack of knowledge impact what occurs. This is a massive disservice to the customers of American businesses, but the owners/managers don't care because they get to keep more money.
13
These psychopaths can spend hours with you on the phone showing you malware they actually downloaded themselves to try to get you to pay a $180 credit card fee to protect your computer, I got scammed after running Windows 10 "Defender" 80 minutes to secure my computer. Within 3 seconds after finishing, my computer was blocked and a message said to call their repair service. Why is Microsoft and the computer industry allowed to manufacture defective equipment? Too big to fail?
4
The random calls are bad, but the callers that specifically target you using your personal information are downright creepy. I don't have a land line anymore, only a magic jack and a cell that is not listed on any public directory. I try not to give out the cell number (it's a prepay and junk calls cost me money), but have given both numbers to my mortgage company, banks, my health insurance company and medical offices.
Last week I received two identical voice mails in quick succession on both lines - indicating a hack of information or a leak by an insider who has knowledge of both numbers.
The caller, a "Kimberly Ross" said she was with the "Philadelphia County (garbled word) Division" and that I was in jeopardy of missing a court date. She did not have a Philadelphia accent though - and spoke with American-sounding English except for lengthened "r's", reminiscent of Filipino accents. She referenced a realistic-sounding court docket number, including the year. Because sometimes defendants are improperly served, I had to check my local court dockets and fortunately found nothing.
If somebody ever blows up a call center, I will cheer. If I'm on the jury when the bomber goes on trial, I will definitely acquit!
Last week I received two identical voice mails in quick succession on both lines - indicating a hack of information or a leak by an insider who has knowledge of both numbers.
The caller, a "Kimberly Ross" said she was with the "Philadelphia County (garbled word) Division" and that I was in jeopardy of missing a court date. She did not have a Philadelphia accent though - and spoke with American-sounding English except for lengthened "r's", reminiscent of Filipino accents. She referenced a realistic-sounding court docket number, including the year. Because sometimes defendants are improperly served, I had to check my local court dockets and fortunately found nothing.
If somebody ever blows up a call center, I will cheer. If I'm on the jury when the bomber goes on trial, I will definitely acquit!
17
For a couple of month I kept getting calls from this guy (I think it was always the same guy) who insisted he was from Microsoft, and who always started out by asking, in a thick Indian accent, "Are you the owner of the computer?" He kept calling even though I told him I knew it was a scam. One time I played along for a while, just to see what he would do. He walked me through some Windows menus to a list of services, some of which were "Stopped," and told me this meant something was wrong with my computer. When I told him this was actually normal he got angry and abusive -- and yet he continued to call.
I haven't heard from him for a while, so maybe his outfit got raided. It's good to know that the Indian authorities are turning a totally blind eye to this! Still, what can you do in a world when con men can make their pitches without even having to take the risk of being physically present? I don't see any obvious answer, and I suspect the problem is going to get much worse as the world gets more and more connected.
I haven't heard from him for a while, so maybe his outfit got raided. It's good to know that the Indian authorities are turning a totally blind eye to this! Still, what can you do in a world when con men can make their pitches without even having to take the risk of being physically present? I don't see any obvious answer, and I suspect the problem is going to get much worse as the world gets more and more connected.
8
Who answers unknown callers?
WHO?!!!!!
WHO?!!!!!
12
My 85-year-old mother. That's WHO. These scammers are always on the prowl for easy victims.
19
Elderly people like my mother who don't understand that ou can screen calls. But I can't bring myself to take away the phone. She feels she can still do something by answering it.
6
Just. Hang. Up.
12
I got a call a few months back from some woman with a thick accent claiming she was, I forget what, but it was supposedly the IRS. Of course I knew it wad a scam and told her so in no uncertain terms. She got very aggressive, so did I. And then I looked up her number, White Plains, NY and got a look at her house on Google maps. Then I called her back and read her house address back to her and described her house. She got very upset at that. And told her I was reporting her to the fraud division of the IRS ( convenient online form to fill out) and to my local police department. Which I did and spoke with a detective giving him all the necessary information. I suggest everyone do this as well. Never got another call. But if I did, I know how easy it is to get these people back and report them. Boy was she scared when I hung up after I called her back.
26
Why doesn't the US government lessen the impact of this scams with public service announcement on Television. A simple message, The IRS doe snot contact people b phone or ask for payment b phone would have killed this scam. I have received several over the last year and they usually hang up when I tell them my friends in the IRS say you folks are a scam.
13
As seen on (late night - lowlife) TV!
Can just imagine the adverts they're going to do.
Can just imagine the adverts they're going to do.
2
I was a victim of the tech scam by an outfit called ESoftData which actually checked out online as a "ONCE" legitimate company. My loss $150 and my card number. They even had a secure page set up. They gave themselves away when the young Indians tried it again by selling me "Computer driver" protection after I'd bought what appeared to be a good Firewall system. Live and learn.
3
This is indeed bad news. One can understand why young people in India might do this, but from my experience, there are many nice guys like the ones in the article. I told one of them who phoned me that he sounded like a decent person, and to my surprise, he apologized. It would be nice to think that he stopped.
5
This is precisely why any company that handles sensitive financial information of Americans (not just banks, medical, and brokerages but any company where the outsourced company can ask for or access your credit card number) should outsource work. Corrupt governments like India, China, Russia, Philippines, etc will be no help other than superficially investigate their own citizens for the benefit of Americans. Even citizens of our ally Israel carry out numerous computer scams of American citizens so don't expect anything from less cooperative governments. Donald Trump, if you're reading this, stop this outsourcing to protect American citizens and our economic interests.
7
A fun and highly education series of videos on YouTube about this very topic can be found on the Hoax Hotel channel. The host records his interactions with scammers peddling all types of offers.
2
I have received both IRS and Microsoft scams alike. No offense but frankly the West Indian accent and poor phone connection was a dead giveaway. I immediately called their bluff and they each had the same impolite cowardly response--the hung up without apologizing or saying goodby.
1
These calls can be stopped by simply threatening to report them to the local and state police departments immediately.
3
And the IRS fraud line. Online form, easy to fill out and submit.
3
Oh I think not. We have abandoned our line line and only use it for out going calls or faxing. Otherwise, we get as many as 5 calls a day. One of these scammers has called our number over 36 times since Nov 7th. I can tell they called from my phone caller ID.
Some of these calls are voice activated robo calls. Try telling the robo caller you are going to report them to the authorities. What authorities would you suggest? If you do talk to a live person, they laugh at you and then proceed to cuss YOU out since they have absolutely immunity from you reporting them to anybody.
I have learned this from 800Notes.com it allows you to report these spam calls. So, no we don't answer calls from numbers we do not know. Although these criminals try all kind of gimmicks to get you to answer. One called our number using our number showing in the caller ID. They called here 20 some times before they gave up.
So please take some time to recognize this as a huge problem for many Americans. Our calls started when we purchased a new Honda and financed through Capital One. I remember feeling "funny" when I put in our home number on the application. Am convinced our unlisted/unpublished number was sold by Capital One since the calls started about when our first payment was due.
Some of these calls are voice activated robo calls. Try telling the robo caller you are going to report them to the authorities. What authorities would you suggest? If you do talk to a live person, they laugh at you and then proceed to cuss YOU out since they have absolutely immunity from you reporting them to anybody.
I have learned this from 800Notes.com it allows you to report these spam calls. So, no we don't answer calls from numbers we do not know. Although these criminals try all kind of gimmicks to get you to answer. One called our number using our number showing in the caller ID. They called here 20 some times before they gave up.
So please take some time to recognize this as a huge problem for many Americans. Our calls started when we purchased a new Honda and financed through Capital One. I remember feeling "funny" when I put in our home number on the application. Am convinced our unlisted/unpublished number was sold by Capital One since the calls started about when our first payment was due.
7
I too get calls like these but never respond after a first few. But I have no way stopping emails, one of which happened just a few days back, that when opened leads to a pop up that says in a female voice that my computer is infected with virus and that I should call the number on the screen. It froze my computer. I plugged out the power cord and started the computer after a couple of minutes. That solved the freeze. There was another similar occasion about a year back. I called the number, and the guy on the other side with a foreign accent wanted to take over the computer claiming he is from Microsoft. I did let him takeover. But then I noticed him getting into my "C" Disc. I asked him "Are you really from Microsoft?" He did not answer instead offered to fix my problem. I got suspicious and turned off the computer. That ended that call. Similar emails claiming to be some US corporations keep coming, landing mostly to my "Junk." I forwarded one such mail to the genuine company that is claimed like Bank of America to "abuse@bankofamerica." BOA responded to warn me not to open such mails and guide me how to handle if I had opened them. Sometimes I try to block. But the pop up says there is no sender email, so can not be blocked. I am sure there are many out there with similar experience. The public needs to be educated or made aware.
Thank you for this article.
Thank you for this article.
6
The emails are as bad as the calls, maybe worse because they must be deleted without opening and gone through one by one.
1
No caller ID here, just an old-fashioned land line answering machine. It answers in a language other than English. This stops scammers, telemarketers, etc.
10
Please, oh please say it's in Klingon!
6
These call centers sound just like the ones you call when your 3 in 1 printer does not work( which is often). The people you talk to have deep accents, want information, and then want you to buy something and need your credit card number. I had to purchase another year of support to get help. But, I got an emails reflecting a purchase of something else than what I did want. It took me another hour to get through to cancel the transaction, if that was actually accomplished. My wife actually did give some one access to our computer and he sold her "more protection" for $79.00. He too had a deep accent.
2
If you find yourself using your credit card to purchase something that appears suspicious all you have to do is call the credit card company afterwards and they will block the purchase and take care of the entire problem. I fell for the one where suddenly my computer froze and a loud voice was telling me to call Microsoft. In my fear I did and I did turn over my computer to the guy with the thick Indian accent. I was on the phone with him about three hours detected all these viruses that kept coming back (he was actually putting them on) and in the end he said he would help me with purchasing protection if I wanted. I agreed that he could check that out and then when he came up with a plan that was $150 I challenged him. Then he came back with a plan for $250 and I hung up on him. I called my computer fixer guy the next day and had him go to my computer getting rid of the hundreds of viruses that the Indian guy had put on there the night before. I think that cost me about $100 end of lesson well learned.
3
I get called by these scammers every few months. The first time they called, I kept them on the phone for a while to try and figure out their angle. After they figured out I wasn't going to fall for their con, they started yelling profanity at me and one of them told me that a nuclear missile had just been launched from Pakistan aimed "straight for my nose".
12
At the county library I work at, we got,what sounded like a fraudulent call from an Indian individual last week saying our power bill was late and that our electricity was going to be shut off that day if we didn't give them a credit card number to pay the bill. We did not comply and the lights stayed on.
4
Such things happen when we want goodies for free. If each phone call cost ten cents or even five, it would not be economical for these people to keep calling and calling. If each email cost one cent per recipient, or even one tenth of a cent, spam would disappear. It is because things are free that multiple approaches of this kind succeed. And it is easy to see why the people who call are in India. The cost of an Indian caller is less than that of an American caller. Plus an American caller would be vulnerable to prosecution.
So the market can solve such problems if we harness the market for this purpose.
Here is another example. When you drive in the countryside, hoping the enjoy the view suddenly a billboard springs up and blocks or spoils your view.
But again, spoiling your view costs the advertiser nothing. They have to pay ONCE the farmer on whose land their billboard is. But they do not have to pay the motorists and their passengers even though they are stealing something valuable from the latter - namely their enjoyment.
Let people who put up billboards pay one dollar to EACH person who travels on that highway. They would soon find that other forms of advertising are cheaper.
Your time and your enjoyment of nature are also your possessions. Someone who takes them without paying is stealing.
So the market can solve such problems if we harness the market for this purpose.
Here is another example. When you drive in the countryside, hoping the enjoy the view suddenly a billboard springs up and blocks or spoils your view.
But again, spoiling your view costs the advertiser nothing. They have to pay ONCE the farmer on whose land their billboard is. But they do not have to pay the motorists and their passengers even though they are stealing something valuable from the latter - namely their enjoyment.
Let people who put up billboards pay one dollar to EACH person who travels on that highway. They would soon find that other forms of advertising are cheaper.
Your time and your enjoyment of nature are also your possessions. Someone who takes them without paying is stealing.
15
I was contacted by the Indian IRS scammers once. There were so many red flags that I though it was a joke. I've heard of some pretty slick scams but I don't know how anyone can fall for paying your IRS fines with pre-paid cards. Everyone knows they want cold, hard cash.
7
If this is proven correct, then our Government should stop these call centers. If not proven correct I support helping poor people earn a living. Most in the US who would work a minimum wage job would never take this type of illiterate, skilled work.
1
I have received these or similar calls many times in the last two years. Of course, I ignore them knowing full well that they were scams.
Twice I informed the FBI by email but never heard anything from the agency. Apparently, they have more important things to do.
This issue has been covered several times in India West or other Indo-American newspapers, and most Indo-Americans are familiar with these scams.
I use caller ID on my telephone to filter out unfamiliar calls. Callers are asked to leave their numbers and messages on my answering machine. Few do. There are also robocalls from the same scammers. The accents of the callers or robocalls are not always Indian.
Twice I informed the FBI by email but never heard anything from the agency. Apparently, they have more important things to do.
This issue has been covered several times in India West or other Indo-American newspapers, and most Indo-Americans are familiar with these scams.
I use caller ID on my telephone to filter out unfamiliar calls. Callers are asked to leave their numbers and messages on my answering machine. Few do. There are also robocalls from the same scammers. The accents of the callers or robocalls are not always Indian.
6
I was contacted a few months ago by a man with a heavy Indian accent. He stated that he worked for dell and asked that I deposit $1000 into an account, because apparently, he wanted to help me resolve all of my computer related issues. I informed him that I would not provide him any money (and I used a few expletives to really drive home my point). I ended the call by stating that he picked the wrong person, because I would be reporting him to the U.S. government.
I haven't received any new scam calls, I imagine they deleted my number from their database..
I haven't received any new scam calls, I imagine they deleted my number from their database..
9
My 70 year old tech savvy (and scam wary) sister received a tech scam call purportedly from Microsoft. She almost fell for it, because just a day earlier she had hooked up a new Microsoft operating system... the timing was perfect.
As someone who has had a traumatic brain injury, I know all too well that we are ALL potential victims: compromised brains are often unable to differentiate truth from lies. A few years back I would have done almost anything I was told to do, short of jumping out of a window.
Until we live in not just a nation, but a whole world, that no longer has vast degrees of income inequality, these crimes will continue.
My heart goes out to those who were scammed.
The people who are vulnerable to such crimes are typically those least able to afford it.
As someone who has had a traumatic brain injury, I know all too well that we are ALL potential victims: compromised brains are often unable to differentiate truth from lies. A few years back I would have done almost anything I was told to do, short of jumping out of a window.
Until we live in not just a nation, but a whole world, that no longer has vast degrees of income inequality, these crimes will continue.
My heart goes out to those who were scammed.
The people who are vulnerable to such crimes are typically those least able to afford it.
22
I received numerous such calls for a few years, but was never fooled. As a journalist, I simply was not fooled. The 'come ons' from the calls seemed obvious to me:
"Hello, I am General Deborah W****** of the Internal Revenue Service, and..."
My reply to this was as follows: "Hello: You are a scam. The IRS does NOT use the title of "General" and does not call people with the demands you've stated, but...my government WILL track you down, and WILL arrest you and you WILL be in jail for a very long time. Do NOT call me again."
I did get numerous similar calls, and I stopped picking up my landline unless I knew who was calling me. (I don't answer my cell, either, unless I know who's calling me.) A couple of years into this I did read that the Attorneys General in the U.S. were onto this scam, and I added that news bit as a warning to the caller.
It is sad that many did fall for this.
"Hello, I am General Deborah W****** of the Internal Revenue Service, and..."
My reply to this was as follows: "Hello: You are a scam. The IRS does NOT use the title of "General" and does not call people with the demands you've stated, but...my government WILL track you down, and WILL arrest you and you WILL be in jail for a very long time. Do NOT call me again."
I did get numerous similar calls, and I stopped picking up my landline unless I knew who was calling me. (I don't answer my cell, either, unless I know who's calling me.) A couple of years into this I did read that the Attorneys General in the U.S. were onto this scam, and I added that news bit as a warning to the caller.
It is sad that many did fall for this.
4
Yhe last time I received a call like this from "Microsoft Tech Support" - warning me that they had detected that my Windows PC had become badly infected by viruses and malware - I sat quietly for a few moments, listening to the voice of a woman with a lovely foreign-sounding accent, as she described the terrors I could face unless I took immediate action --
After about two minutes, I gently interrupted her --
Me: "Excuse me - we don't own any PC's - only Macs."
Her: "...and we we can scan your systems to...what did you say..?"
Me: "We're an all Apple/Mac family here - we have five Macs, but I've never owned a PC." (Not true)
Her: Umm....
My other tack is to pretend I don't speak English and talk back to them in an irritated voice speaking unintelligible gibberish -- that's also quite effective...
After about two minutes, I gently interrupted her --
Me: "Excuse me - we don't own any PC's - only Macs."
Her: "...and we we can scan your systems to...what did you say..?"
Me: "We're an all Apple/Mac family here - we have five Macs, but I've never owned a PC." (Not true)
Her: Umm....
My other tack is to pretend I don't speak English and talk back to them in an irritated voice speaking unintelligible gibberish -- that's also quite effective...
20
Only too angry about all these scams. You can never protect your old folks enough from the torments from these tech frauds.
7
Unfortunately this is what you get when you outsource all IT. ENJOY.
15
I used to get some of these calls during dinner hours. It was Telemarketers and scammers. Then I discovered the "Do Not Disturb" feature of my iPhone. I set it up to Do Not Disturb around 6:00 PM to 8:00 AM. I don't get those calls anymore. You can also set it so that it allows you to receive calls from your "Favorites". I assign my friends and family as my favorites. So those calls will always go through. If you have an android phone I'm sure it has the same feature.
6
Indian citizen here & ashamed to be one this evening. I have just written an email to the NASSCOM (National Association of Software & Service companies). I am also going to write to the Indian Police and/or the Indian Ambassador in the US.
Without being racist or xenophobic, I invite you to share your thoughts or ideas on how to eradicate this problem. Please try to remain constructive & please keep in mind that Indian citizens living abroad are victims of these scams too.
Without being racist or xenophobic, I invite you to share your thoughts or ideas on how to eradicate this problem. Please try to remain constructive & please keep in mind that Indian citizens living abroad are victims of these scams too.
35
Apparently you have many Indians that believe it is okay to make money by threatening the elderly.
Perhaps if India started to give long jail sentences to these thieves there would be less Indians that believe that it is okay to make money by threatening the elderly.
Perhaps if India started to give long jail sentences to these thieves there would be less Indians that believe that it is okay to make money by threatening the elderly.
17
I can understand your concerns. My understanding is that English is a second language for just about every Indian national. The country is populated with well educated young people who cannot get good jobs commensurate with their education. But they can speak English. I have dealt with young Indians on legitimate calls (credit card stuff). They are polite and helpful. I just assume this is a structural economic problem in India, that when better money can be made, certain individuals will be drawn to dishonest work.
2
This seems to go hand in hand with the current "black money" cash crisis. News reports are telling us that the majority of Indians are corrupt and dishonest in their daily financial dealings. Cheating the tax man is a way of life with 2 rupees owed for every one collected. How can a culture of casual dishonesty not eventually destroy a nations Karma . I think your PM may be on to something. You must address the little lies first.
3
I got the you have a virus call and ended up almost in tears. I had to replace my credit card afterwards. The person who called even sent me a letter from Legal, at Microsoft saying the call was legit. (Of course the letter was not.) I was very suspicious. And today someone said she was from Google and did I want to renew my business listing with them? It is impossible not to get frazzled by these people who sound so sincere.
8
I get the Google call about renewing my business all the time but just hang up. I did not know it was a fraud call! Thanks for sharing.
2
I received one of these fake IRS calls a couple of years ago. I called the FBI to report it, and they couldn't care less.
A much more frequent Indian scam is impersonating a Microsoft technician, and calling strangers to tell them that their computer is infected. I get these calls frequently and always tell the caller that they are involved in a crooked scam and that they should get another job. Most of my friends have received similar calls, but are too smart and too technical to fall for this. But a neighbor of mine fell for this, and the scammers deleted everything on her computer hard drive, including the Windows Operating System. I had to install a new copy of Windows to make her PC work.
A much more frequent Indian scam is impersonating a Microsoft technician, and calling strangers to tell them that their computer is infected. I get these calls frequently and always tell the caller that they are involved in a crooked scam and that they should get another job. Most of my friends have received similar calls, but are too smart and too technical to fall for this. But a neighbor of mine fell for this, and the scammers deleted everything on her computer hard drive, including the Windows Operating System. I had to install a new copy of Windows to make her PC work.
9
It's not that the FBI couldn't care less. they are overwhelmed--in particular with identity theft. You want small government? This is what you get
2
Thanks corporate America. Another wonderful unintended side effect of your treating your workers like widgets.
29
I fielded a couple of these phone calls recently, informing me that I'd be served with "legal documents" at either my "job or place of employment" on an upcoming Friday, and that I "had been notified." I was so incensed at having received such threatening messages that I prayed that they'd stop by either location, so that I could deliver a proper "response."
Alas, it wasn't meant to be; the origins of these calls were disguised/routed as though they were local, using Chicagoland area codes. Juxtaposing these types of calls, similar entreaties via phone to "lower my energy bill," and credit card consolidation offers when I make it a point to keep zero balances, against the ever increasing taxes for simply having a landline makes it all the easier to cut back and limit my exposure to these cretins. It's quite unfortunate, as it's made me adamant in avoiding dealing with these individuals, whether they be legitimate technical assistance employees or not.
Alas, it wasn't meant to be; the origins of these calls were disguised/routed as though they were local, using Chicagoland area codes. Juxtaposing these types of calls, similar entreaties via phone to "lower my energy bill," and credit card consolidation offers when I make it a point to keep zero balances, against the ever increasing taxes for simply having a landline makes it all the easier to cut back and limit my exposure to these cretins. It's quite unfortunate, as it's made me adamant in avoiding dealing with these individuals, whether they be legitimate technical assistance employees or not.
3
Unfortunately, for the most part the same people who bought the Trump scam are the one susceptible to these kinds of scams.
12
Lol, right, for no Democrat could ever be duped, right? Please.
5
There couldn't be a riper terriortory for scam artists than a country that just made the "master of the tweet" the most powerful man in the world.
30
I am worried to send my X-ray to radiologists and other service providers, however qualified they may be to overseas consultants and their boundless talent for scamming their own people first and now... after all, India shines very bright and gets brighter... That great nation export pharmaceuticals by plane loads to The Americas, but fail to provide people of India with genuine medicine. India is flooded with fake Asian origin adulterated concoctions called medicine that is difficult to distinguish from original. India need to shine its brass with a dose of Brasso and feel the pain of the "leaving of corruption" , even demonetisation.. Those who cook for daemons are serving the and fuelling evil that is rampant anyway
3
1. My advice:If your phone system can use it sign up for Nomorobo. My phone system is VOIP and Nomorobo works well with it.
2. A recurring problem: It's easy to "spoof" the apparent phone number of an incoming call. That is: the ID number of the incoming call is faked, rendering Caller ID useless. For me, on occasion, the faked number has been the last person who called my number (how do they even know this?). Recently a friend of mine got a call that listed the ID number as the 800 number of AARP auto insurance, for example. The caller left a number of messages falsely claiming money was owed, of course.
There is no excuse for this. Telephone technology that we all reply should not be so shoddy that it is easy or even possible to spoof a Caller ID. Phone companies and the companies that manufacture telephone are are to blame for such negligence.
2. A recurring problem: It's easy to "spoof" the apparent phone number of an incoming call. That is: the ID number of the incoming call is faked, rendering Caller ID useless. For me, on occasion, the faked number has been the last person who called my number (how do they even know this?). Recently a friend of mine got a call that listed the ID number as the 800 number of AARP auto insurance, for example. The caller left a number of messages falsely claiming money was owed, of course.
There is no excuse for this. Telephone technology that we all reply should not be so shoddy that it is easy or even possible to spoof a Caller ID. Phone companies and the companies that manufacture telephone are are to blame for such negligence.
12
Har de har har. You think this is a problem. Apparently the russians hacked the dnc computers and influenced the outcome of our presidential elections. I know. The orange buffoon is not convinced.
If you want to look at a real problem.
If you want to look at a real problem.
17
My elderly mother got one of these calls about a virus on her computer. Though stil sharp at 84, she has not tech knowledge (the computer was my dads who is now in a nursing home). In addition she had been waiting for a call from the home security people about screen troubles with her alarm unit. What ensued resulted in the scammer totally confused and frustrated with my mother who kept him on the phone for at least thirty minutes tried to follow his instructions for a computer on the screen of the alarm controller. Finally she told the man to call back to talk to me when I got home. He never did and she was never called again.
If every scammer got this treatment they would go out of business soon. Sadly too many seniors fall for this. I do my best to protect my parents when I can but many seniors live alone.
I know it is very unpopular to use this term these days but what these people do is just evil.
If every scammer got this treatment they would go out of business soon. Sadly too many seniors fall for this. I do my best to protect my parents when I can but many seniors live alone.
I know it is very unpopular to use this term these days but what these people do is just evil.
26
If I were truly paranoid I could think it would be a great way to fund contra like schemes to support terrorists. No drug smuggling, just nice clean money to buy weapons (and like the originals, pay a hefty kickback to the government employees running the scam.) Perhaps that's why it took the feds three years to shut it down.
3
This scam was easy to perpetrate and went unnoticed because we contract so much of our tech/call center responsibilities to overseas entities as American Companies look to lower costs and increase profits. Key Bank, Mobil OilCredit Services and Citibank ( VISA) Credit Services are among the many companies that contract our personal information and acoount services. . Discover Card Credit Services does not. In this day of cyber crimes it is in our National interest to stop doing business this way.
17
There's a sucker born every minute.
5
You should always check your wallet if anyone you know tells you a sucker is born every minute since a thief is born every two minutes.
6
Americans are so gullible. Nigerians and Jamaicans operate similar scams. and even with extended exposure of the scams, they continue. I am an immigrant and I have been targeted before without success for the scammers. I know how the IRS works and knew immediately that the calls were fraudulent.
5
Are you gullible if you give money to a thug threatens you with a knife? I guess we all should be smug if Lucille Brown is mugged.
2
Maybe the tragedy of the commons applies to the digital free range as well. When the internet becomes dominated by scammers, ad ware, and other means to legally and illegally pick our pockets, then it becomes not just of no use, but a threat to our freedoms and security and like an overgrazed pasture or overfished ocean will become a non productive weed patch. If that happens we may witness the fall of Amazon, google and the other titans of the intenet and people in Seattle will once again wonder if the last person leaving will turn the lights out.
10
For those that have the time, do what I do. When the scammer calls, I pretend that I'm not tech-savvy. When they ask if I'm at my computer, I tell them, "let me turn it on. Give me couple minutes; it's an old computer and it takes awhile to boot up," and so on, for as long as I can string them along.
The 5-10 minutes I keep these guys on the phone are 5-10 minutes that they're not victimizing someone else. Not only is this a public service, I also find it tremendously satisfying (and you might, too).
The 5-10 minutes I keep these guys on the phone are 5-10 minutes that they're not victimizing someone else. Not only is this a public service, I also find it tremendously satisfying (and you might, too).
20
I have repeatedly received the recorded phone message with broken English ("This is IRS calling...call us immediately....) and, if I have time at the moment, I have come to view this as an opportunity to have some fun at their expense. I call back and always get someone with a name like "special agent Thomas Parker, IRS investigations department" who speaks in a heavily accented S. Asian accent. They ask for money, even suggesting that the police will be sent to my door to arrest me if I don't start procedures to pay them. I can act sufficiently innocent and ignorant enough to keep these guys on the phone for nearly an hour, which essentially ties them up. It's always fun to end the call with a "gee, did I just waste your time" finish. If more people did this I suspect it would put a dent in the profits of these bozos.
14
The real loser here is the world economy, and the US economy.
Most people I know never answer unknown numbers anymore, so legitimate calls get dumped because of the volume of scams.
It seems to be getting worse, so pretty soon no business will be able to call anyone... the vast bulk of people will just reject the call....
Most people I know never answer unknown numbers anymore, so legitimate calls get dumped because of the volume of scams.
It seems to be getting worse, so pretty soon no business will be able to call anyone... the vast bulk of people will just reject the call....
11
Just got one this afternoon! Heavy South Asian accent informed me that I'm eligible for a lifetime low interest rate on my Visa card if I just confirm a few account details (of course including card number, expiration date, and security code). I asked why I couldn't find anything about the offer on the website until the guy got hostile asking did I want the deal or not and why wouldn't I when it's so good for me. I hung up. Pfft.
7
We should have the technology to identify the location of these scammers and send in a drone strike.
8
Telephone providers should not put through telephone calls that do not give the telephone number of the caller.
By the way the telephone providers know the scammers since their records show the callers with high number of calls.
But of course the telephone providers do not want to stop the scammers since they make money on each call.
By the way the telephone providers know the scammers since their records show the callers with high number of calls.
But of course the telephone providers do not want to stop the scammers since they make money on each call.
7
"But of course the telephone providers do not want to stop the scammers since they make money on each call."
Actually, how does that work? Are the scammers paying something to Verizon for each call they make? Would Verizon lose a lot of money if the scammers stopped calling?
Actually, how does that work? Are the scammers paying something to Verizon for each call they make? Would Verizon lose a lot of money if the scammers stopped calling?
It would be interesting to know what percentage of the victims were US citizens and how many were illegal aliens? It would also be interesting to know what pecentage of the registered voters among the victims voted for Trump or Clinton? I'm not suggesting anything but I am curious.
If I'm not busy when I get one of these calls (average of 1 every 2 days) just play along with them and let them do their thing. Then, when they think they've closed the deal, I say something like "Thank you, very much. I'll be in touch when I've thought about. Don't worry. I taped the whole conversation so I'll be in touch or ..." and hang up. They never call back.
If I'm not busy when I get one of these calls (average of 1 every 2 days) just play along with them and let them do their thing. Then, when they think they've closed the deal, I say something like "Thank you, very much. I'll be in touch when I've thought about. Don't worry. I taped the whole conversation so I'll be in touch or ..." and hang up. They never call back.
5
Calls come to my office so not answering is not an option. I started telling them they had reached a call center for a suicide prevention center. Then I asked the caller if they were suicidal. It substantially reduced the calls.
13
"Though India had no reputation as a large-scale exporter of fraud in the past..."
Hmmm. The reporter may want to look into the H-1B visa program. India's reputation is well-established there.
Hmmm. The reporter may want to look into the H-1B visa program. India's reputation is well-established there.
26
If you suspect that a phone call may be part of a scam, you can do a quick web search. Type in the phone number followed by, "Is this a scam?" The search result will often show comments by many people who think that this phone message is a scam.
The following is a glaring example of a home-grown state government scam here in the U.S.A.
- Article - "A Gang Of Thieves: Not A Metaphor" - lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com - Lawyers, Guns & Money - Dec. 19, 2016
The Michigan state government has used an automated computer program, called "MIDAS", to process unemployment insurance applications. This program has wrongly accused at least 20,000 state residents (93% of applicants !!!) of fraud. Erroneous threats of criminal activity have intimidated many thousands of innocent people into paying a total of $150 million dollars in fines. This is money which the state legislature "can plunder at will" to try to prop up the state budget, which has a major shortage of revenue related to cuts in state taxes.
The lead-laced water scandal in Flint, and the "MIDAS" program rip-off of innocent citizens. Don't you just love how Michigan government officials show such "heart-felt concern" (Not) for the well-being of their state's residents?
Rachel Maddow reported on the MIDAS rip-off before Christmas. I'm surprised that The New York Times has not reported on this story.
The following is a glaring example of a home-grown state government scam here in the U.S.A.
- Article - "A Gang Of Thieves: Not A Metaphor" - lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com - Lawyers, Guns & Money - Dec. 19, 2016
The Michigan state government has used an automated computer program, called "MIDAS", to process unemployment insurance applications. This program has wrongly accused at least 20,000 state residents (93% of applicants !!!) of fraud. Erroneous threats of criminal activity have intimidated many thousands of innocent people into paying a total of $150 million dollars in fines. This is money which the state legislature "can plunder at will" to try to prop up the state budget, which has a major shortage of revenue related to cuts in state taxes.
The lead-laced water scandal in Flint, and the "MIDAS" program rip-off of innocent citizens. Don't you just love how Michigan government officials show such "heart-felt concern" (Not) for the well-being of their state's residents?
Rachel Maddow reported on the MIDAS rip-off before Christmas. I'm surprised that The New York Times has not reported on this story.
5
I always tell them, " You are a bad man. What you are doing is bad karma. You will come back and suffer greatly!" Then they become quite defensive and upset. They try to argue with me about it, and I say, "No, no, it's true! You are very bad and you are doomed!" I derive much pleasure from this.
28
The IRS is the first to tell the public they don't call taxpayers, the public is notified by mail. They are very good about that. Can't speak to other Gov't agencies though.
7
Then try calling them back when you get a letter. Horrible!!
The take away here is the gullibility of Americans who fear government enough to withdraw their savings and send it off to some stranger on the phone. It's the Justice System that is so feared in this country. The real fear of people with limited recourses that could be ruined by even a small legal mistake.
This is the culmination of the monied class instituting, on everyone else, a low level of economic expectation. It's the fact that many people expect that they should be barely at a subsistence level of poverty. Any, legal altercation results in the next step down the ladder to the street. No one, cares anymore.
Many commenters relate their own experiences with these scammers and try to report them, and they are laughed at. This is attempted robbery and fraud. And, huge corporations, (Version), do nothing to stop it.
The people that should have fear, is the perpetrators of these scams. They should be the ones who lose everything, and be afraid of the knock on the door.
This is the culmination of the monied class instituting, on everyone else, a low level of economic expectation. It's the fact that many people expect that they should be barely at a subsistence level of poverty. Any, legal altercation results in the next step down the ladder to the street. No one, cares anymore.
Many commenters relate their own experiences with these scammers and try to report them, and they are laughed at. This is attempted robbery and fraud. And, huge corporations, (Version), do nothing to stop it.
The people that should have fear, is the perpetrators of these scams. They should be the ones who lose everything, and be afraid of the knock on the door.
7
Next time I receive a call re my computer I'm going to tell them I'm following the Pres elects advice. I've thrown out my computer and I'm going to courier everything from now on.
4
These kids should patent their story so no one steals it, and then get someone to make a movie out of it.
3
A well-known Boston-based financial services company agent called my elderly father, and over the course of many phone calls, using an emotional appeal that he would be able to help out a troubled son financially with the additional money he could make, talked my initially reluctant father into investing most of his extremely modest life savings in a stock market account with the firm, which the agent then "churned", receiving a "fee" for the "service" every time the account was churned. Stocks went down, and the fees were high, and his life savings were much reduced by the time he died. This was before internet call centers, but shows the need for regulating financial services and employing competent investigators and attorneys to enforce.
35
That is a sad story. A friend of mine, a widow of limited means, had a similar story. When she went to fire her financial advisor, he pulled a guilt trip on her. He thought more of her!! How could she do that to him, etc. Like a jilted lover. She was shaken by his response. We now have laws requiring financial advisors have a fiduciary responsibility to their clients. Maybe things will change.
5
I'd an old uncle who'd go into a hilarious act of being a crazy, old farmer and starts screaming at these callers, "Did you let my cows out of barn? Come help me get them back inside! I know you dun it, now you get right over here...."
Click.
Click.
21
I am sure the US government could stop this in a couple of days if they wanted to. They just don't want to, for some reason.
We're supposed to believe they need access to all our communications and are protecting us from terrorists, but they can't root out these scammers? I think not.
Maybe Trump will do something. Seriously, how bizarre is it that a Liberal like myself has written off the entire Democratic Party which does nothing good about anything and just lines its graft ridden pockets.
We're supposed to believe they need access to all our communications and are protecting us from terrorists, but they can't root out these scammers? I think not.
Maybe Trump will do something. Seriously, how bizarre is it that a Liberal like myself has written off the entire Democratic Party which does nothing good about anything and just lines its graft ridden pockets.
13
would you be surprised to learn that Trump invests in Call Centers?
2
I agree that the government could stop this type of activity if were a priority. Doesn't seem like it is.
1
Did you read the article? What has the democrats have to do with the scamming?
5
Our local Police Department posted a notice on Facebook about scam calls from alleged police charities. That's how bad it is.
14
I was at my desk and the phone rang. I normally don't answer the phone but that day I was expecting a call back from a customer at that time so I picked up. It was the tax scam call. Amused and a bit annoyed an idea popped into my head. I asked the to hold on for a moment, made some random typing noises the I asked caller "What is the answer to IRS security question of the day. " Puzzled, he said he didn't know what i meant. I told him it was a random question that you get sent to your email from the IRS web site to verify phone agents identity the one they sent me was " Who is Assistant Secretary of the Army? I heard a loud shout in the background and the caller immediately hung up.
You really need to "lock down " you home phone access. My number is unlisted and I forward my call to a virtual phone service that has voice mail forwarding that sends a transcript of the VM. I also block numbers with out caller ID or "Unknown". Basically, no voice message, no meaningful caller ID you don't talk to me or my family.
You really need to "lock down " you home phone access. My number is unlisted and I forward my call to a virtual phone service that has voice mail forwarding that sends a transcript of the VM. I also block numbers with out caller ID or "Unknown". Basically, no voice message, no meaningful caller ID you don't talk to me or my family.
21
I received many of this calls, usually at dinner time. With a glass of wine in my hand, I would call back (often to spoofed phone numbers in Washington state) and offered to meet the caller outside of their building to discuss the matter with them personally. This was fun for a couple of weeks until my wife shut me down.
7
How can you call back to a spoofed number?
Are the people who fall for these phone scams the same individuals who believed the campaign promise to bring back high paying coal mining jobs?
41
Most likely.
6
High paying, dirty , dangerous jobs that will leave you gasping for air by the time you are 35 and dead by the time you are 45. Desperation comes in all shades and degrees, doesn't it?
No, they are the same individuals who believed that Bill Clinton and Loretta Lynch were just talking "grandkids" on the tarmac.
2
I told a caller that my windows did need work, and that they were really dirty, but as soon as the weather broke I'd be out there washing and squeegeeing them and would he come over to help me?
I use Mr Number (free) on my cell phones, and don't answer unidentified landline calls. If they know me, they can leave a message.
I use Mr Number (free) on my cell phones, and don't answer unidentified landline calls. If they know me, they can leave a message.
5
We have to be more vigilant with our phones. I can’t believe that I am saying this. Here is a list of things that you can do if you would like to assist with reporting scams:
1. https://www.usa.gov/stop-scams-frauds - Identify and Report Scams and Frauds
2. https://www.irs.gov/uac/stay-vigilant-against-bogus-irs-phone-calls-and-... - Stay Vigilant Against Bogus IRS Phone Calls and Emails
3. https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/0076-phone-scams - FEDERAL TRADE COMMISSION
DO NOT SEND ANY MONEY to anyone based on a random call until you have completely verified the person or company.
1. https://www.usa.gov/stop-scams-frauds - Identify and Report Scams and Frauds
2. https://www.irs.gov/uac/stay-vigilant-against-bogus-irs-phone-calls-and-... - Stay Vigilant Against Bogus IRS Phone Calls and Emails
3. https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/0076-phone-scams - FEDERAL TRADE COMMISSION
DO NOT SEND ANY MONEY to anyone based on a random call until you have completely verified the person or company.
7
Mr. Poojary, 18, said it all, “At that time, in my mind is that I want money ... That’s it. I want money. That’s why.” Quite an explanation for committing fraud.
Sad but true - the people from 3rd world countries are desperate for money and will do most anything to obtain it. Shysters have always existed, but the numbers have grown astronomically.
Sad but true - the people from 3rd world countries are desperate for money and will do most anything to obtain it. Shysters have always existed, but the numbers have grown astronomically.
16
And you don't for a moment think people in the '1st world' are not desperate fr money. All the banksters. All the real estate crooks. All the wall street crooks. the arg dealers. Give me a break. It is not a 1st or 2nd or 3rd world thing -- it is a human greed-fear thing.
14
American companies compromised the private information of Americans by shifting call centers to India and other third world countries. Trump will bring back all those call center jobs back to U.S. Otherwise, he will tax them to pay for losses incurred by Americans. Help is on the way, be careful until Jan 20.
8
Dream on.
4
Hahahaha!
8
Trump doesn't even know what you are talking about.
7
I would like to know why Verizon has "willful blindness" regarding these obviously fraudulent automated scams. It couldn't be because they make a few pennies on each call, could it?
I received the Indian IRS scam calls for MONTHS, and every day now I get automated calls offering pyramid schemes. I believe that automated calling should be prohibited except in an emergency situation. Are you listening Verizon?
I received the Indian IRS scam calls for MONTHS, and every day now I get automated calls offering pyramid schemes. I believe that automated calling should be prohibited except in an emergency situation. Are you listening Verizon?
37
The phone calls were terrifying. I got several messages from them.
10
These offshore boiler rooms are often the same ones hired by legitimate companies to provide outsourced customer support/service by major American companies. Banning call center outsourcing will starve shady operators of the legitimate income they need to support their scamming activities.
26
My father, over 80, routinely gets tech scam calls. He figures they target the aged. If he can't understand the scammer, he just hangs up. If they tell them they need to get into the computer, he replies, "I'm sorry. I have a laptop. It's too small for you to get into it." Other times he tells them he runs Linux, and that ends the call. Occasionally he's made them so made they threatened to "block his computer."
20
After reading nearly the whole article, I came to the part about "learning an accent". I was wondering why anyone would send money to the IRS based on a call from the typical person in an Indian call center, who has a strong Indian accent. I am not being critical of Indian call centers. I have had very good results with tech support from some people with Indian accents. It's just that one would expect tech support folks to sound like that, not the IRS.
6
With a new computer and install of Microsoft's Office365, I was having some issues with set up so I called the number. I was connected to a third party in India. The tech was pleasant but then it got strange when they wanted to "escalate" the issue and asked me for my credit card number and were trying to sell me loads of crap playing upon my lack of knowledge of the technical aspects of software. They also wanted access to my machine to "purge" the hard drive. While it might have been legit, it crossed a line and felt like a scam. And Microsoft was behind it. I hung up the phone and called my brother for help.
19
In your description, you said that you placed a call to Microsoft, to get product suppprt. If you placed the call TO them, I strongly doubt that you called a legit Microsoft number.
Their website is set up with a function where you can request customer support by entering a number where you can be reached, and THEY call you, at that number. The website also estimates WHEN you will receive the call from Microsoft (and the call arrived, within seconds of the estimate.) Lastly, the call comes from the area code for Seattle, WA- 425.
I am not a Microsoft employee. I have, however, used this service several times.
Their website is set up with a function where you can request customer support by entering a number where you can be reached, and THEY call you, at that number. The website also estimates WHEN you will receive the call from Microsoft (and the call arrived, within seconds of the estimate.) Lastly, the call comes from the area code for Seattle, WA- 425.
I am not a Microsoft employee. I have, however, used this service several times.
2
My local NextDoor site always has people posting about these calls. It appears that word has not gotten out yet about these scams. The first time I got one of these (the IRS call) it was pretty scary, but I figured out quickly (Google search) that it was a scam. It is very easy to search under the phrases they use or the names they use. (The scammer who called me used the name "Steve Martin.")
When US companies decided to close up call centers here so they could pay low wages to people overseas they set us all up for this. Now we are reaping the "rewards". And I don't hear Mr. "Make America Great Again" saying a thing about this. First the corporations fired Americans, then they trained people to scam us.
When US companies decided to close up call centers here so they could pay low wages to people overseas they set us all up for this. Now we are reaping the "rewards". And I don't hear Mr. "Make America Great Again" saying a thing about this. First the corporations fired Americans, then they trained people to scam us.
29
So you'd like Trump to bring the scam call centers back to the USA so we can be scammed by our own fellow citizens??
4
I wonder if John Podesta has fallen for this IRS scam?
8
There *was* a tech/virus scam? Good grief, I got one of those calls just this morning!!
When you know what's going on, it's great to have a little fun at the perp's expense. The longer you keep them on the line, the less time they have to approach potential victims....
When you know what's going on, it's great to have a little fun at the perp's expense. The longer you keep them on the line, the less time they have to approach potential victims....
10
Except they get paid when you answer the phone and you phone number gets passed around.
3
As an old immigrant from India (since the 1960s), it shames me to read this piece. But hide, I can't. That's not an option. So what do we do?
First and foremost, US telephone companies and the foreign companies connecting with US should be directed to have in place technology that displays on the receiving screens the originating overseas telephone number of the caller, not just its US cover number, VOIP or otherwise.
Two, NAASCOM, the national association of Indian software companies and call centers, neeeds to announce tempting awards to whistle blowers for passing information about the illegal or unethical practices originating from India.
Three, NASSCOM should consider putting up a Website that carries names, photographs and entecedents of the ring leaders engaged in this acitivity. As quick as the the Indian grapewine works, it seems to me the association should have no difficulty in obtaining this information and shutting down these activities and their ring leaders. Time is of the essence.
Fianally, it ought to be done with the speed of light, this week or before the end of next week. It is not only ruining India's reputation in this field, it has played havoc on many hardworking Americans who have lost substantial amount of money through this nerve wrecking experience.
First and foremost, US telephone companies and the foreign companies connecting with US should be directed to have in place technology that displays on the receiving screens the originating overseas telephone number of the caller, not just its US cover number, VOIP or otherwise.
Two, NAASCOM, the national association of Indian software companies and call centers, neeeds to announce tempting awards to whistle blowers for passing information about the illegal or unethical practices originating from India.
Three, NASSCOM should consider putting up a Website that carries names, photographs and entecedents of the ring leaders engaged in this acitivity. As quick as the the Indian grapewine works, it seems to me the association should have no difficulty in obtaining this information and shutting down these activities and their ring leaders. Time is of the essence.
Fianally, it ought to be done with the speed of light, this week or before the end of next week. It is not only ruining India's reputation in this field, it has played havoc on many hardworking Americans who have lost substantial amount of money through this nerve wrecking experience.
52
Excellent and practical suggestions. NYT please make KCS's comment a pick so more folks will see it.
As others have stated we never answer the phone unless the caller ID indicates it's someone we want to talk to. But I never thought of checking the number on Google and contacting the do not call center. For the past several weeks we've been getting a call from Oxnard, CA at the same time every day. Sometimes a message will be left saying it's the IRS and we owe money. Ha! I'd call my accountant first. If only these fraudulent call centers could be taken down, our lives would be much more peaceful. I'm just glad we have caller ID right now.
But the scams are also on the internet. I got one about my Macbook having a virus that needed to be fixed. I called Apple and they said there were no problems that needed to be fixed. Also, I get emails from friends with no reasonable message. I contact them myself and discover that they haven't sent me anything. These scams just continue to interfere with life every which way. And they prey on the elderly which is sad. I'm approaching elderly, myself at 75. I hope these people can be stopped before I enter senility.
But the scams are also on the internet. I got one about my Macbook having a virus that needed to be fixed. I called Apple and they said there were no problems that needed to be fixed. Also, I get emails from friends with no reasonable message. I contact them myself and discover that they haven't sent me anything. These scams just continue to interfere with life every which way. And they prey on the elderly which is sad. I'm approaching elderly, myself at 75. I hope these people can be stopped before I enter senility.
18
There are some companies selling legitimate products or services, which use similar practices. The scammers can just imitate them. My mother had her laptop hijacked when she clicked on a link for Windows 10 installation. Microsoft actually does distribute Windows 10 this way, and she had just requested Windows 10 so it was challenging to recognize the scam email. The virus launched immediately and she quickly received phone calls demanding a ransom payment to unlock it. There was nothing to do at that point. Likewise, if you ever buy something online, your email address and phone number get added to lists and many are bombarded by messages and calls.
5
Software never arrives in an email. And it's too bad the (we hope) installed anti-virus program didn't catch it.
1
When our Prime Minister told us and the world whatever Canadians do in our name we all do he acknowledged that it was 2016.
In 2016 Americans elected a scam artist as its face to the world. This may not end up well for the world's kleptocracies but I fear we in the world's democracies will experience much pain before the citizens of Russia, China, India and the USA wake up and smell the coffee.
In 2016 Americans elected a scam artist as its face to the world. This may not end up well for the world's kleptocracies but I fear we in the world's democracies will experience much pain before the citizens of Russia, China, India and the USA wake up and smell the coffee.
7
Apart from fraudulent or commercial telemarketers, I have a very conflicted opinion about many charities using telemarketing with exactly the same techniques. Those techniques exploit psychological triggers to ‘hook’ the listener into the unwanted conversation and induce feelings like guilt, cognitive dissonance or just mere confusion in order to get the call-recipient to make a donation that, if rationally considered, would or could not make otherwise (I warmly recommend the book on the subject by the social psychologists Anthony Pratkanis and Elliot Aronson, “The Age of Propaganda”).
OK, helping veterans or children with cancer are fantastic causes, but the end does not justify the means. The recipient of the call may find them worthy, but maybe donates to other organizations or simply cannot afford the donation and, in any case, should be encouraged to donate based on objective information rather than on psychological tricks over a phone call, without a chance to verify the charity and information.
A second problem is that most often charities hire for-profit telemarketing firms for those campaigns, contributing to further that industry while diverting funds from their original, legitimate purpose.
OK, helping veterans or children with cancer are fantastic causes, but the end does not justify the means. The recipient of the call may find them worthy, but maybe donates to other organizations or simply cannot afford the donation and, in any case, should be encouraged to donate based on objective information rather than on psychological tricks over a phone call, without a chance to verify the charity and information.
A second problem is that most often charities hire for-profit telemarketing firms for those campaigns, contributing to further that industry while diverting funds from their original, legitimate purpose.
25
If they call you on the phone, and ask for money, they are probably not quite the charities you think they are; they keep 95% for themselves and maybe give 5% to the charity. The only honest ones that use the phone are those that pick up clothing (like Purple Heart) or those that have you give envelopes to neighbors with the REAL address of the charity on the envelopes.
I hate when a paid "rep" of a police union calls so you can fund their beer parties.
I hate when a paid "rep" of a police union calls so you can fund their beer parties.
10
Completely agree, NMAAHC. Two very useful resources to check whether a charity is legit and how do they use their funds are Charity Navigator (www.charitynavigator.org) and Charity Watch (www.charitywatch.org).
The sad part is that I've also got calls from charities that appear to be completely legit and should not retort to that sort of thing.
The sad part is that I've also got calls from charities that appear to be completely legit and should not retort to that sort of thing.
4
I'm impressed the two teenagers had the guts to decide and report against their employer - most people anywhere would hesitate doing that for fear of consequences, including harassment by their employer, the law-enforcement (which in India might typically be paid off by the employer/ owner) as well as job-loss. Whether it was their actions that helped expose this scam - or that of India/ American authorities, they deserve kudos for persisting and reporting it to the FTC.
As for the scammers, my family and friends here in the Bay Area have been at the receiving end of such calls much of the past 12-18 months - but they seem to have dropped off now. Some were hilarious, most were highly aggressive and offensive. My solution to such calls is never to pick up calls from unrecognizable numbers! If the caller is genuine, they will leave a message. Thankfully my Panasonic phone allows me to block calls directly on the instrument!
Finally, I wish the article had identified the business owner(s) or the corporation so we know who these people are! Hopefully, they will.
As for the scammers, my family and friends here in the Bay Area have been at the receiving end of such calls much of the past 12-18 months - but they seem to have dropped off now. Some were hilarious, most were highly aggressive and offensive. My solution to such calls is never to pick up calls from unrecognizable numbers! If the caller is genuine, they will leave a message. Thankfully my Panasonic phone allows me to block calls directly on the instrument!
Finally, I wish the article had identified the business owner(s) or the corporation so we know who these people are! Hopefully, they will.
27
Immorality is not the worst human vice--amorality is. Is this what the human race has come to? India is known as the 'world' largest democracy.' What are they teaching over there?
9
I've received all too many calls from scammers in India pretending to be from Microsoft, the Treasury Department, Internal Revenue Service, etc.
My approach is to respond by saying, "Namaste", and then going on (taking as much time as possible) to inform them that there have been recent news articles about them in the New York Times. I continue on by explaining that the New York Times articles have documented that the widespread problem of public defecation in rural areas of India has resulted in a significant number of people with stunted physical and mental growth due to bacterial exposure. I conclude that the caller must be suffering from stunted mental growth since the only job he or she has found is a dishonest one.
The usual response is a burst of obscene and profane statements during which I simply laugh at them. I recommend this approach to others.
My approach is to respond by saying, "Namaste", and then going on (taking as much time as possible) to inform them that there have been recent news articles about them in the New York Times. I continue on by explaining that the New York Times articles have documented that the widespread problem of public defecation in rural areas of India has resulted in a significant number of people with stunted physical and mental growth due to bacterial exposure. I conclude that the caller must be suffering from stunted mental growth since the only job he or she has found is a dishonest one.
The usual response is a burst of obscene and profane statements during which I simply laugh at them. I recommend this approach to others.
21
and as I prepared to write this comment- in comes a call from a 347 area code (New York?). I don't answer, Google the number (it is a scam), block the number on my phone, and call redial from a landline. The message "the survey that..." I have heard that multiple times. I would love to know why Verizon allows these calls to be placed and the profit motive for their willful blindness.
28
I used to get these calls a lot, mostly at dinner time. I usually ignored them.
Then one fine evening when I got another call like this, I told "Andy", "where were you? I have been looking all over the place for you." etc. etc. The guy looked shocked, and said "why were you looking for me", and I told him "I wanted you to come help me shovel the snow on my driveway" (we had a nine-inch layer of snow outdoors). That shut him up. I noticed that if I start some bogus conversation with these folks, they became wiser and called less and less. Someone in the Comments section here mentioned he/she kept the scammers busy on the phone so they had less chance to go bother someone else. That seemed to have worked in my case. Needless to say, don't give away personal information to anyone who calls.
Then one fine evening when I got another call like this, I told "Andy", "where were you? I have been looking all over the place for you." etc. etc. The guy looked shocked, and said "why were you looking for me", and I told him "I wanted you to come help me shovel the snow on my driveway" (we had a nine-inch layer of snow outdoors). That shut him up. I noticed that if I start some bogus conversation with these folks, they became wiser and called less and less. Someone in the Comments section here mentioned he/she kept the scammers busy on the phone so they had less chance to go bother someone else. That seemed to have worked in my case. Needless to say, don't give away personal information to anyone who calls.
8
It's cute, how we get back at these callers. We're a pretty clever bunch, alrighty.
What's not cute is the billions of dollars removed from our economy and spent, more than likely, to damage us further.
What's not cute is my 94 year old mother spending many days in a panic because these gutless, heartless thugs know what buttons to push and jump up and down on them mercilessly.
What's really not cute is the clear demonstration we get of our own government's inability to cope with teenagers who just want money, and their Fagans.
I recall the cold war "we can read your license plate from space" scam. Now it's, "we can track every call ever made to anybody in the world". And, of course, the Republicans who adore the idea they could do it if they felt like it.
But they can't. Our government harbors many liars and bullies. Small-power people who can't accomplish anything on their own, but give them a government ID and funding from a corrupt and willing Congress and watch out.
Ironically, the callers in India are rapidly doing themselves in. "Americans are easy targets because they actually fear their government".
Not for long. Due to decades of anti-Americanism from Republicans, thanks to bully-boy tactics from the police, the now-revealed-to-be-the-source-of-government-bias-and-corruption-FBI, and many slimy others, we undercut respect for our own government. The ongoing sale of the Supreme Court to fanatics of the Right Wing has sealed the deal.
What's not cute is the billions of dollars removed from our economy and spent, more than likely, to damage us further.
What's not cute is my 94 year old mother spending many days in a panic because these gutless, heartless thugs know what buttons to push and jump up and down on them mercilessly.
What's really not cute is the clear demonstration we get of our own government's inability to cope with teenagers who just want money, and their Fagans.
I recall the cold war "we can read your license plate from space" scam. Now it's, "we can track every call ever made to anybody in the world". And, of course, the Republicans who adore the idea they could do it if they felt like it.
But they can't. Our government harbors many liars and bullies. Small-power people who can't accomplish anything on their own, but give them a government ID and funding from a corrupt and willing Congress and watch out.
Ironically, the callers in India are rapidly doing themselves in. "Americans are easy targets because they actually fear their government".
Not for long. Due to decades of anti-Americanism from Republicans, thanks to bully-boy tactics from the police, the now-revealed-to-be-the-source-of-government-bias-and-corruption-FBI, and many slimy others, we undercut respect for our own government. The ongoing sale of the Supreme Court to fanatics of the Right Wing has sealed the deal.
7
Not that your political rant has anything to do with the topic of this article, but since you started it, remember one of the reasons HRC isn't President-elect? Her dishonesty, and the crookedness of her foundation. Your tally isn't entirely wrong, it's just incomplete if you insist on ignoring responsibility of the Left in undercutting respect for the government.
3
My political ranting aside,m I envy you your Paris location,
and I wish you good times, good health, and enjoyment of whatever fortune brought you there.
I have yet to see anything that leads me to conclude the Clinton Foundation is somehow crooked. At least not on a par with Trump's. So, while you're brieing away the days, perhaps you could dig some up.
and I wish you good times, good health, and enjoyment of whatever fortune brought you there.
I have yet to see anything that leads me to conclude the Clinton Foundation is somehow crooked. At least not on a par with Trump's. So, while you're brieing away the days, perhaps you could dig some up.
5
So the U.S. investigation begins in 2013...but nothing happens till 2016? Three years of gullible but scared people being scammed while the government "investigates"? Shaking my head.
11
I received the Dell computer scam call, where they claim your computer has a virus, but.... it's important my story is heard because involves Dell.
Prior to the scam, I called Dell on behalf of my father in law, registered his computer for support under his name but gave my cell phone. We needed to get a software driver. Three months later (after the support contract expired), I started getting calls to my cell phone for my father in law, the caller was claiming to be from Dell, but they were the Indian scam outfit, and they made it a point to say that they "knew" I had a Dell computer, including the make/model. This is why the scam was so successful, it was believable since they knew the model.
So.... clearly the scammers got their hands on privileged data from Dells support database, question is did they hack it or did they buy it from Dell?
Prior to the scam, I called Dell on behalf of my father in law, registered his computer for support under his name but gave my cell phone. We needed to get a software driver. Three months later (after the support contract expired), I started getting calls to my cell phone for my father in law, the caller was claiming to be from Dell, but they were the Indian scam outfit, and they made it a point to say that they "knew" I had a Dell computer, including the make/model. This is why the scam was so successful, it was believable since they knew the model.
So.... clearly the scammers got their hands on privileged data from Dells support database, question is did they hack it or did they buy it from Dell?
55
We get the Indian-accented microsoft calls all the time, along with a recording from the "IRS." But my personal favourite was actually an Hispanic-accented call from Bridgeport, CT with the claim that my brother had been in a bad accident and I needed to pay for an ambulance for him. The caller then asked me to tell him my name and my brother's name so he could be sure he had called "the right person." I hung up on him and reported the call. So enterprising scams come in all varieties.
11
Some wise man recently came up with an easy solution to these types of scams: Never use the telephone! Only receive and deliver messages by courier service instead. Problem solved.
14
I worked in IT for 30 years Indian IT "experts" have been scamming the US for that long through misrepresentation of their credentials, lies and unethical behavior in the work place etc. this with the complicity of corporate America.
Time to wake up to reality.
Time to wake up to reality.
34
We need to start taxing government ineptitude and or put a quota on government workers to stop Internet crime or get fired. It doesn't seem to matter to the US government that their citizens be robbed daily over the Internet. What would really stop it? If the corrupt mafia and government officials of third world nations were being threatened by the US military.
4
When I was job-hunting, I was getting at least 5 calls a day from "job recruiters" with heavy Indian accents named Steve, John, Brett or Jennifer (always generic English names).
It gave the impression that Indian-Americans suddenly cornered the US HR market.
Of course, I quickly figured out that it was Indian scammers calling me (the heavy phone static was also a dead giveaway).
It gave the impression that Indian-Americans suddenly cornered the US HR market.
Of course, I quickly figured out that it was Indian scammers calling me (the heavy phone static was also a dead giveaway).
14
If I get a call from a number I don't know from an area I don't know I usually don't pick up. If it's something that matters they will leave a message. If I get 2 calls from that number I block it. I have no time or patience for these charlatans.
Thing is.. that works for me... and probably 99.8% of other people. It's the .2% that, sadly, pay for the whole operation. Often they are old people who don't know a lot (especially about computers) or are maybe lonely and desperate. In other words, these people deserve sympathy and protection, not mockery.
Thing is.. that works for me... and probably 99.8% of other people. It's the .2% that, sadly, pay for the whole operation. Often they are old people who don't know a lot (especially about computers) or are maybe lonely and desperate. In other words, these people deserve sympathy and protection, not mockery.
25
Sad that people are so gullible and that they have become so afraid of our government - partly the fault of the government itself, e.g., the IRS, partly the fault of political charlatans stoking fear.
That said, when I receive a call from someone named "Andy" with an obvious Indian accent, I reply that my name is Sanjivi in my American accent (I have no Asian blood other than some indigenous American blood) and then say, goodbye.
That said, when I receive a call from someone named "Andy" with an obvious Indian accent, I reply that my name is Sanjivi in my American accent (I have no Asian blood other than some indigenous American blood) and then say, goodbye.
7
Unfortunately, some people will take away from your experience that you're insensitive, disrespectful, and need sensitivity training in diversity. Lol.
5
I am in the demographic of those who tend to keep home landlines, but I killed mine simply because (1) 95% of the calls we were getting were scams and (2) my wife is a gullible person. I'm not going to pay the phone company for the privilege of being abused.
23
One of the most satisfying responses to scam calls is to redirect the call to the 'Jolly Roger Telephone Company' (http://www.jollyrogertelco.com) which is of course not a real telco, it's a website/service set up by a fellow named Roger with a clever bot that will respond to telemarketers calls so as to waste the maximum amount of time. The most amusing conversations that the bot has with telemarketers get posted to the website. Unfortunately, they now require a (very inexpensive) subscription, but if you get a lot of such calls it's well worthwhile.
6
If the consumers in the USA simply refuse to deal with ALL businesses that use call centers in India and force them to bring the jobs back these scams will get cleaned up in no time.
25
Come on! Is it really that easy America?
$100,000,000 in gift/iTunes cards to settle a bogus IRS claim to date?
$100,000,000 in gift/iTunes cards to settle a bogus IRS claim to date?
4
I have called many Indian tech scammers and watched many scam-baiters' videos uploaded in Youtube (search for "tech support scam" in Youtube) and what I find is thatall of the scammers think Americans (and British and Australians) as fools and easy prey. Many scammers admit they have only passed high school and gone through English accent enhancement course. They even go through "christening ceremony" where they introduce themselves to the "class' as Mike, Julia, John and Jessica. Another common trait they all have is that once exposed they use very filthy English and Hindi swear words. The Indian scammers are very greedy and shameless.
14
set up nomorerobo. it is free, and it works.
2
Maybe the government could spend more time going after real security threats & stop harping on Clinton's emails.
Not only would they actually be helping the American public, but we likely wouldn't have elected Trump as our next president.
Nice job FBI... Comey should be proud. (sarcasm)
Not only would they actually be helping the American public, but we likely wouldn't have elected Trump as our next president.
Nice job FBI... Comey should be proud. (sarcasm)
37
What you're saying is that government agencies should not investigate people you support. Sounds like a plan. And your conclusion that people might have voted for Hillary if they hadn't found out she's an incompetent, evidence-deleting, corrupt being makes a lot of sense as well.
2
I get these all the time. for some reason they have targeted my work phone whose number I never give to anyone outside of the office, so it's easy to screen/avoid the calls. The whole scenario is ludicrous to me, esp. given that the calls come from places that have no IRS office, but i can see where they do get other people, esp. if they hit them out of the blue.
10
Most fake Indian IRS callers have VOIP (voice Over IP) phone with he area code 202, Washington DC. Their scam call center is typically in Mumbai, Ahmedabad, Delhi, Gurgaon. Noida, Jaipur, Katakana and Hyderabad. One group recently moved from Ahmedabad to Nepal. Te moved after the October raid of fake IRS call centers in Ahemdabad, India. I have talked to some Indian scammers in English and Hindi. After some repertoire some Indian scammers do reveal details of their shady job.
3
This article highlights the challenges for local law enforcement and for those of us working with elderly scam victims. The scammers operate off shore and continuously update their pitch. We need to be more proactive in this arena regarding educating others regarding these tactics. Its not just seniors who fall prey to these scams, but they are less likely to report because of fear and shame. We also need to think about how to support local law enforcement and agencies to assist victims and their families to end the scams.
12
I recently experience a questionable encounter with good old Chase Credit Card. I was dealing with a "gentleman" from Mumbai who somehow got involved with my problem with my Chase Blue Sapphire card. I pay $95.00/year to get hassled ? No thanks. My dispute was settled after much dispute, never a follow up from my Mumbai guy, and cancelled my card . No more business with Chase thank you
33
A small part of me wishes that Uncle Sam could use drone strikes in 'friendly' countries; of course there's no telling what trump might do...
8
Sometimes I give the scammer a made up credit card number one digit short of the full complement then keep changing the sequence when they read it back. I can still make dinner while I'm doing this on speaker phone.
60
I particularly enjoyed a Jamaica-accented call I received a few years ago, claiming that a large package of illegal drugs had reportedly been sent to my home, and the DEA would be coming to arrest me immediately if I did not pay a "fine" via credit card. I laughed, and hung up, and they called back, insisting that they were legitimate members of law enforcement and that I was about to be arrested.
My sister in law actually sent $1600 to someone in NYC, who claimed to be a friend of her grandson. Purportedly the grandson had been arrested and needed bail, when in fact he was sitting in his college dorm in IL.
Only a full fledged public education effort will stop these thieves.
My sister in law actually sent $1600 to someone in NYC, who claimed to be a friend of her grandson. Purportedly the grandson had been arrested and needed bail, when in fact he was sitting in his college dorm in IL.
Only a full fledged public education effort will stop these thieves.
17
I was cursed out by one this morning for asking them to take ny number of the call list. The call "came" from an upstate NY number but there was no mistaking the accent.
10
We Americans are an easy lot to scam. It seems to be in our DNA. Any lingering doubts about the gullibility and foolishness of us Americans were eliminated on November 8, 2016.
38
I guess blaming the victim is OK when older (read privileged) Americans are involved. You seem to mistake the culture of older people (those most easily scammed) with stupidity. Their only fault is to have been raised in an environment where wholesomeness, earnestness, and trustworthiness were common and praised values. The inner-city culture of jacking your neighbors, preying on others and scamming from afar for those who haven't immigrated yet is something they aren't acculturated to as of yet. It will be a nasty country to live in when everyone is suspicious of everyone else enough to deserve not to be cast as "foolish" by self-loathing globalists...
5
No surprise here, corruption is a national pastime in India, Pakistan and most Middle Eastern countries. It is so common that it cripples their economies. Trust is the keystone of commerce, nothing functions without it.
This results in a reliance upon clans and families, since all others are distrusted.
This results in a reliance upon clans and families, since all others are distrusted.
30
Kinda like lobbying and networking in Washington...
1
And then there was the voice with an Indian accent who called to tell me that big changes were being made to Social Security (I am retired) and he would need my Social Security number. Before hanging up on him, I told him that he was a fraud.
9
The only time I have gotten one of the Scammers to hang up on me is when I said "I am sorry I'm busy right now, I just paid your mother $5 and she is ................
15
The FTC has proved itself to be an entirely ineffectual and incompetent organization. It should be disbanded.
It is a disgrace that millions of Americans have to tolerate tens of millions (or more) robocalls every single day. My parents were victims of one of these scams. It is often the elderly who believe it is the IRS or Microsoft calling them.
When I get a call now I play along for a bit and when they ask for my credit card I tell them I'll get my wallet.. and then put the phone down. It's an ineffectual gesture but if I can make these evil bandits day just a little more stressful then I am happy to do it.
It is a disgrace that millions of Americans have to tolerate tens of millions (or more) robocalls every single day. My parents were victims of one of these scams. It is often the elderly who believe it is the IRS or Microsoft calling them.
When I get a call now I play along for a bit and when they ask for my credit card I tell them I'll get my wallet.. and then put the phone down. It's an ineffectual gesture but if I can make these evil bandits day just a little more stressful then I am happy to do it.
21
"The FTC has proved itself to be an entirely ineffectual and incompetent organization. It should be disbanded."
And replaced by...?
And replaced by...?
3
Without any FTC we would be even more susceptible. What we need is better, more caring workers at these government bureaus.
3
Yeah, this happened to me once too.
As soon as they asked for a credit card number (to verify my identity!) they never heard from me again. And vice versa.
But it is true, people become afraid when they threaten to shut down your email access. Or they think the IRS is calling.
As soon as they asked for a credit card number (to verify my identity!) they never heard from me again. And vice versa.
But it is true, people become afraid when they threaten to shut down your email access. Or they think the IRS is calling.
3
Play with them and have fun. I told one guy that I was in a wheel chair, and the only place I could send money from was a western union. Of course, he went to the western union, called me back and was "very angry" that his money was not there. Be creative, waste their time.
Or at least, tell them someone is at the door, and to hold on for a minute, and never come back.
Or at least, tell them someone is at the door, and to hold on for a minute, and never come back.
32
I've often received the excited E.Indian accent caller telling me my MicroSoft PC has been hacked and he needs access to clean up my system. When I tell him I don't have a computer, it's always interesting to listen to the weasel wiggle.
40
When I receive a nuisance call of any kind, if I've the time, I listen to the scripted spiel, and at the first break, I say: "Can I ask you something? Do you know Jesus?" Passionately proselytizing, I take control and completely derail the call. Fun! Satisfying! I find virtually all of these callers have no interest whatsoever in being saved.
58
That is fanstastic.
5
As a recent victim of identity theft, I've learned that the "game" has moved on from creating fake credit card accounts. The fraud detection methods here have gotten too good to make this profitable.
The current "scam" is to apply for fraudulent payday loans, an industry that is not well regulated. As part of the scam you receive a robo-voicemail to "approve" the loan from, say The Quick Cash Center, and when you call the number, the person on the line usually speaks with an Indian accent.
When you start asking to be transferred to "the fraud department" you will get an immediate hangup, or a "masala" of American swear words.
The current "scam" is to apply for fraudulent payday loans, an industry that is not well regulated. As part of the scam you receive a robo-voicemail to "approve" the loan from, say The Quick Cash Center, and when you call the number, the person on the line usually speaks with an Indian accent.
When you start asking to be transferred to "the fraud department" you will get an immediate hangup, or a "masala" of American swear words.
1
NEVER CALL THEM BACK. Never.
6
Scam calls about Microsoft viruses, etc. continue to come from a certain "Amy Brooks" calling from the 330 area code (Akron, OH). Caller asks for access to your computer to get rid of viruses! Get rid of this caller.
1
As a seventy year old, I do believe I've started to lose a few brain cells. Mine was Microsoft, they claimed they would clean my computer for once a month for a year and I could call anytime. Well, I paid and as soon as I did I phoned Microsoft and they told me the awful truth. Fortunately the salesperson gave me his number and I phoned back. I have my own persuasive skills. It took me three hours to get to the owner, at least I think he was the owner. He spoke in a sophisticated British accent and was very intelligent. He gave me back my $300. I think I've the only person in history that did this, but it came with a cost. I had to admit to him that we were all crooks; no problem there. I did receive a check, It did go through. I was most pleased with myself. But there was a glitch, I don't think the boss were happy to whoever put me through and that person has been harassing me now for four years, all times of day. I've tried a lot of strategies and the harassment has slowed down.
10
Governments need to act to require phone service providers to use technology to reduce the volume of telemarketing calls, which is truly enormous.
If scammers are allowed to continually use automatic dialers and spoofed phone numbers to troll through millions of phone numbers, they eventually find a small percentage of people to victimize... those who may be vulnerable because of age, hearing or cognitive problems, language barriers, etc., even though most people immediately realize that the calls are from scammers.
If scammers are allowed to continually use automatic dialers and spoofed phone numbers to troll through millions of phone numbers, they eventually find a small percentage of people to victimize... those who may be vulnerable because of age, hearing or cognitive problems, language barriers, etc., even though most people immediately realize that the calls are from scammers.
19
Economic desperation on a global scale. Prepare for more, not less of this in a world completely callous to inequality and class dichotomies.
26
Scammers goal is to make easy money off of vulnerable, trusting, or gullible people. You should not confuse social issues with criminality.
11
When confronted with a pop-up, instructing me that my computer was infected w the Zeus virus and not to turn it off but to call an 800 #. Of course I tried to get out of the pop(block)-up and couldn't so I called, and was quoted several different dollar amounts to fix it. I agreed only to have it diagnosed, and was then asked to write a check, which I did not but offered credit card transaction. He said they only accept checks. I refused again, he instructed me to take it somewhere to get it fixed. After that I decided to work on it myself and was able to get to the net and research and found out it's a scam. A couple of days later my computer greeted me with a black screen frozen, prompting for my log-in password but wouldn't respond when I typed it in. A really sharp savvy comp dude w a business locally knew right away that it was a fake virus scam, Zeus was once but is out of commission now, figured it was a break in into the computer by changing the password. He also thought at first it might be the hard drive, which turned out not to be. He kept it over night and got it going again. Att technicians, other local comp guys all claimed it was the virus. They all wanted $200 to fix it, my guy took $20. and 3 doz of home-made oatmeal cookies for Christmas. The funny thing is when my computer was still under warranty with dell, I couldn't log in once, so they send me a USB flash drive which would return it to factory state. The dell tech sounded Indian then.
4
I know the standard advice is not to engage the scammer and just hang up, but if I'm in the mood and have nothing better to do, I love to play dumb just to see how long I can string them along before they catch on that I'm punking them. (And I figure that by wasting their time I might be saving someone hopelessly naive from getting conned). My all-time record is about 25 minutes with "IRS legal office" where I ended up making them actually search for the address of real IRS field offices. I count the true measure of success, though, when the scammer gets so frustrated that he ends up screaming at me.
50
I, too, occasionally like to try to string the callers along. The "IRS" one was a treat. And I enjoy the folks who tell me there are no problems with my credit cards ... yet. (I don't have any credit cards,)
But I'm wondering how many folks exist out there who will fall for any of this nonsense to make it a worthwhile game for so many crooks?
Shouldn't every town's senior center (for starters) be running classes to help their populations? And social service agencies?
But I'm wondering how many folks exist out there who will fall for any of this nonsense to make it a worthwhile game for so many crooks?
Shouldn't every town's senior center (for starters) be running classes to help their populations? And social service agencies?
8
The approach I use is that if notice that SOMETHING BIG AND IMPORTANT!!! is happpening in my life -- e.g., a debt that I didn't know I owed or a prize that I have miraculously won -- didn't come to me in the form of actual physical paper mail, (1) it probably isn't real, and (2) if it *is* real, they'll eventually send me paper about it after their phone calls or emails go unanswered. As far as I know, it hasn't failed me yet.
(The filter only works one-way, alas: the fact that a paper letter was delivered by the USPS is no proof that it still isn't a scam, of course.)
(The filter only works one-way, alas: the fact that a paper letter was delivered by the USPS is no proof that it still isn't a scam, of course.)
6
Easy solution:
1. Ban Indian IT companies from doing business with the American government, and American companies. But sanctions.
2. Drastically reduce Indian immigration to the US.
3. Get rid of political correctness.
1. Ban Indian IT companies from doing business with the American government, and American companies. But sanctions.
2. Drastically reduce Indian immigration to the US.
3. Get rid of political correctness.
17
It would be nice to only be scammed by home-grown fraudsters, say like our own banks, for example.
11
An alternative would be educating the public to better recognize scams. For example, when somebody offers you easy solutions that seem to apply to basically every single problem, and that are based on identifying whom to blame rather than on nuanced, in-depth analysis, it is almost invariably a scam.
4
The most fun I've had is to keep the scammers on the line for as long as possible. Ask them inane questions. Act like you are going to Walmart to purchase iTunes cards. When the finally ask for the codes on the back of the card let them know they have been scammed. Then call them back again and again to talk with different agents. Repeat until you have to stop from laughing too much.
8
"English-speaking job seekers." Right. If that's English that I've been subjected to, then I can speak fluent Hindi.
16
How to spot a scammer in one easy step: Someone asking you to buy prePaid iTunes cards to take care of your back taxes.
34
The first time I got an IRS call, I knew it was a scam. Who doesn't know their tax status? If I make a mistake on my forms, not being the best at math, I get a correction letter from IRS. Also, I love the Microsoft calls. I string them along asking how do they know I use a computer with Microsoft. They either hang up then or tell me to turn on my computer. I explain that we are an all Apple household, I know they are scammers, and I will report them. They hang up.
11
I said, "I don't have a computer." They hung up. And, so far after several months, these particular calls have stopped.
6
This biggest take I got from reading this article is this paragraph below, it really shows the American people the fear we live under.
“I think they actually are really afraid of their government,” he said. “In India, people are not afraid of police. If anyone wants to come and arrest, they say, ‘Come and arrest.’ It is easy to get out of anything. But in America they are afraid. We just need to tell them, ‘You are messing with the federal government,’ and that is all.”
“I think they actually are really afraid of their government,” he said. “In India, people are not afraid of police. If anyone wants to come and arrest, they say, ‘Come and arrest.’ It is easy to get out of anything. But in America they are afraid. We just need to tell them, ‘You are messing with the federal government,’ and that is all.”
14
That is so true. Americans are afraid of their own government, police and most of all, the IRS. How did we get here?
13
"How did we get here?"
I would say through propaganda. I am pretty sure people in India would have many, many more reasons to distrust their government than Americans but, you know, Benghazi, the ACA death panels, the war on Christmas...
I would say through propaganda. I am pretty sure people in India would have many, many more reasons to distrust their government than Americans but, you know, Benghazi, the ACA death panels, the war on Christmas...
3
In a sense, we are afraid of the government because 1) government employees not dishonest and easily bribed, 2) our government employees can make mistakes and they are unshakeable in the belief that they are right and the average person being investigated is wrong. The first part is a good thing; the second is the part to worry about.
4
I get the "Microsoft Support" calls fairly regularly. The usual pitch, "We have detected that your PC is infected...". My response is to play along: "Oh, no! No, I am not in front of my PC right now...", "I'm going to put the phone down while my PC boots up..." Then I just put the phone down. I wait until I hear the scammer shouting themselves hoarse for me to come back to the phone. Then I ask them if their mother knows that they are working as a scammer. That's when they curse and hang up. It's so satisfying.
The trick here is that you waste their time. It slows them from moving on to someone more gullible, thus reducing the profitability of the operation. If everyone in the know treated them thus, it might cut down on the prevalence of the scam.
The trick here is that you waste their time. It slows them from moving on to someone more gullible, thus reducing the profitability of the operation. If everyone in the know treated them thus, it might cut down on the prevalence of the scam.
547
Never have done that, maybe I should start.
1
Bien fait!
I'll try that.
I'll try that.
Yes, one of my lines usually is "Do your family and friends know you're a thief?" Or, "Does your family know you're a criminal engaged in stealing money?" And, "Is this the best you can do with you life?"
5
The IRS will never contact you via phone, if anything it's a certified/registered letter. Never give out any information over the phone and when in doubt ask the caller to send something in the mail. I get calls from charities when I tell them mail me something it never shows up.
14
This is why very few people actually have my direct home (VOIP) number. I use two free Google Voice numbers for my personal and home office lines, both of which forward to my home number or cell depending where I am. That way, of the very few scam calls I get (VOIP #s as far as I know aren't listed), go through one of my Google Voice #s. Then, after hanging up, I block the # which called, meaning that they will get an "out of service" message if they try again. One thing that call centers do very well is to clean up their lists of "out of service" or other bad numbers. Problem solved.
However, treating all people with Indian accents as criminals is a bit much and xenophobic. Remember that there are tons of legitimate Indian professionals here like the head of Microsoft for one. If Satya Nadella calls, you better believe I'm taking the call and not insulting him!
However, treating all people with Indian accents as criminals is a bit much and xenophobic. Remember that there are tons of legitimate Indian professionals here like the head of Microsoft for one. If Satya Nadella calls, you better believe I'm taking the call and not insulting him!
13
Why doesn't the FCC and the Commerce Department put some teeth in the do not call list? The technology exists to identify and ban the scammers but US businesses are major culprits in nuisance calls and the authorities have no intention of actually helping consumers avoid multiple calls. The telephone companies seem to actively facilitate such calls by allowing you to block only a few numbers or charging you for doing so. My solution was to buy a call blocker (originally made in the UK) that can hold thousands of numbers but I still get multiple new calls each day.
3
So are the politicians at election time. I received a number of calls this election season from various representatives, even one with a recording of Michelle Obama. They are just as guilty as any corporation.
3
Here in Canada, many of our friends and I received similar calls from Pakistan. The callers (and, we could recognize very well from their accents), in fact, asked us to deposit x amount of money in one of the banks failing which there would be a raid at our house (giving exactly our home address with the zip code). The local police knew about such calls.
I became friendly with one of the callers -- when he made a repeat call -- and talked to him in Hindi-Urdu pointing out to him his fraudulent activities.
He said he and his ring were active because "we have no source of income, here."
And to my question what was the rate of success, he said, "We do make a lot of money."
I became friendly with one of the callers -- when he made a repeat call -- and talked to him in Hindi-Urdu pointing out to him his fraudulent activities.
He said he and his ring were active because "we have no source of income, here."
And to my question what was the rate of success, he said, "We do make a lot of money."
14
I was a target of such a scam but with my AML compliance background, I was able to detect the illegality of the call quickly. And by my asking the caller certain questions, the call was terminated.
However, we need to regulate these non-U.S call centers so as to drastically curtail such activities. Such centers should be in the U.S.A where these illicit activities can be curtailed by our regulators. In addition, we can create more employment in our own country.
However, we need to regulate these non-U.S call centers so as to drastically curtail such activities. Such centers should be in the U.S.A where these illicit activities can be curtailed by our regulators. In addition, we can create more employment in our own country.
16
That's a great idea: Pass a law in the US regulating potential unknown criminals from making phone calls from India. Then have the local county police arrest them with very long handcuffs. That'll stop them!!!
2
Babu and Pawan are very close to me.
They have called at least 10 times over the past year.
I haven't talked to them personally, as I usually don't answer calls I do not recognize, but I appreciate the capitalistic spirit they have shown on the phone messages they have left.
My take is that we first exported our jobs to India and now we have taught them scamming techniques. The jobs we have exported are not only call center jobs but also hundreds of thousands of software development jobs.
They have called at least 10 times over the past year.
I haven't talked to them personally, as I usually don't answer calls I do not recognize, but I appreciate the capitalistic spirit they have shown on the phone messages they have left.
My take is that we first exported our jobs to India and now we have taught them scamming techniques. The jobs we have exported are not only call center jobs but also hundreds of thousands of software development jobs.
15
Heres what I do...resist the temptation to answer them. No guarantee that if they leave a message they are still not scammers but that lessens the chances.
Block the number. Apple is better than Android in that regard. There is an option that enables you to block anonymous calls but in my case with my Android phone the call does not ring but they manage to leave a message. There are several third-party apps that will not just screen but BLOCK the number. If you answer or if the voice-mail picks up, the scammers know it is a legitimate number and they will include it in the package that eventually gets sold to other scammers. Sometimes by picking up the phone, you incur a charge and of course, they will then know it is a good number. Apple vets all its apps but Android allows developers more freedom. I encountered a case where a supposed anti-virus app was itself a virus, basically picking-off my number and those numbers in my contacts. You need to scrutinize the permissions section before you download an app or have it scanned as soon as it loads. Mine is set up to do that automatically and then indicates whether it is safe to open and use it
Block the number. Apple is better than Android in that regard. There is an option that enables you to block anonymous calls but in my case with my Android phone the call does not ring but they manage to leave a message. There are several third-party apps that will not just screen but BLOCK the number. If you answer or if the voice-mail picks up, the scammers know it is a legitimate number and they will include it in the package that eventually gets sold to other scammers. Sometimes by picking up the phone, you incur a charge and of course, they will then know it is a good number. Apple vets all its apps but Android allows developers more freedom. I encountered a case where a supposed anti-virus app was itself a virus, basically picking-off my number and those numbers in my contacts. You need to scrutinize the permissions section before you download an app or have it scanned as soon as it loads. Mine is set up to do that automatically and then indicates whether it is safe to open and use it
2
Two thoughts:
1. The real culprits in all these scamming environments are the Corporations that off-shore their call centers to any place whatsoever - but to India in particular.
Bring those call centers back home immediately and provide jobs here in the USA.
Corporate profit making by way of lower employment costs and corporate bad business behavior is paid for by our vulnerable citizens.
2. The normal distribution of IQ indicates that a half a population has an IQ less than 100.
That is the way it is. Those vulnerable people do exist and are entitled to as much protection as possible. Give them a break.
The approach I use when receiving such scamming phone calls is to say:
Please give me your phone number and location and I will have my attorney call you. End of story.
1. The real culprits in all these scamming environments are the Corporations that off-shore their call centers to any place whatsoever - but to India in particular.
Bring those call centers back home immediately and provide jobs here in the USA.
Corporate profit making by way of lower employment costs and corporate bad business behavior is paid for by our vulnerable citizens.
2. The normal distribution of IQ indicates that a half a population has an IQ less than 100.
That is the way it is. Those vulnerable people do exist and are entitled to as much protection as possible. Give them a break.
The approach I use when receiving such scamming phone calls is to say:
Please give me your phone number and location and I will have my attorney call you. End of story.
268
@ MNW, did that very thing once (attorney phone call) they hung up rather abruptly.
2
If criminals are setting up call centers in India, what does that have to do with legitimate companies setting up call centers in India? Does anyone really believe that shutting down legitimate businesses that give poor people a chance to earn more will stop criminal enterprises there? Perhaps we should shut down physical therapy businesses in the US because there are also "massage parlors".
1
To NMAAHC.
Where do you think the criminal call centers got the idea for implementing criminal behavior in call centers.
The corporate call centers also serve unknowingly(?) to train some of the people used by the criminal call centers.
Bring the call center function back to America.
Also I wouldn't be at all surprised to find that the hacking of our election systems came out of India as well - actually or by example in other venues.
(Your last sentence is a false equivalency, by the way.)
Where do you think the criminal call centers got the idea for implementing criminal behavior in call centers.
The corporate call centers also serve unknowingly(?) to train some of the people used by the criminal call centers.
Bring the call center function back to America.
Also I wouldn't be at all surprised to find that the hacking of our election systems came out of India as well - actually or by example in other venues.
(Your last sentence is a false equivalency, by the way.)
6
These idiots do not discriminate. They also scam (though differently) people within India. Get their number through caller ID and pay attention to their script. Call them back and repeat the script...it irritates them much that you are trying their lines with them (and blocking their lines) !!
2
Never conduct business on the phone.
18
We always get several phone calls about noon every single day. I've answered calls on the IRS scam and the Windows scam. So I tell the man, "Budmash" or worse and hang up. The most annoying calls come from scam artists who want to assume your time-share ownership, for a big fee of course. They seem to originate in the USA or Canada.
2
I always hang up when I get calls like this one, and never click on a link even if it's from my own bank, instead I go using the URL I know to see if the email was legitimate.
I also have a rule of changing vendors when I realize they use foreign call centers. Think about it, we are NOT saving money because the vendor has fired its US workforce. We pay benefits for those unemployed people which wipes out the consumers' savings and just makes the senior management make much more money.
There are lots of scams out there, one of the biggest one is the Binary Options scam that has ripped off 10s of thousands of people across US and EU of their life savings. For some reason NYT hasn't gotten around covering this scam.
I also have a rule of changing vendors when I realize they use foreign call centers. Think about it, we are NOT saving money because the vendor has fired its US workforce. We pay benefits for those unemployed people which wipes out the consumers' savings and just makes the senior management make much more money.
There are lots of scams out there, one of the biggest one is the Binary Options scam that has ripped off 10s of thousands of people across US and EU of their life savings. For some reason NYT hasn't gotten around covering this scam.
14
I believe the Times of Israel had a nice article on it.
http://www.timesofisrael.com/the-wolves-of-tel-aviv-israels-vast-amoral-...
http://www.timesofisrael.com/the-wolves-of-tel-aviv-israels-vast-amoral-...
A friend of mine who lives in Florida received a call from one of these scammers claiming to be from the IRS. I was the first person he contacted after the call was received. I recalled telling him that the IRS will not call you, they send you a latter in the mail then you can call them.
Coupled with the thick Indian accent, I told my buddy where to tell this guy to go the next time he called - he did and they never called back.
I have also received calls from them and know immediately that they're scammers and I usually tell them what to do.
Coupled with the thick Indian accent, I told my buddy where to tell this guy to go the next time he called - he did and they never called back.
I have also received calls from them and know immediately that they're scammers and I usually tell them what to do.
4
The real story to me, here, and not covered, is that no matter how detailed and credible a whistle blower is in reporting a crime, the agency responsible will do nothing. I get the distinct impression that the FTC couldn't of cared less.
215
......couldn't HAVE cared.....
8
Perhaps, but how do they prosecute foreigners calling from overseas? We have no jurisdiction in other countries and the likelihood of any cooperation let alone extradition (even if you could identify the culprits) makes this very hard to address.
3
"I get the distinct impression that the FTC couldn't of cared less."
Or, they don't have the resources to make it even a remote priority because too many citizens have been convinced that big government is the Enemy -- and regulatory agencies triply so, squared, and doubled again -- and therefore electing representatives who promise to shrink or kill the federal government is a *good* thing. (Idiots.)
Or, they don't have the resources to make it even a remote priority because too many citizens have been convinced that big government is the Enemy -- and regulatory agencies triply so, squared, and doubled again -- and therefore electing representatives who promise to shrink or kill the federal government is a *good* thing. (Idiots.)
5
Population control of some sort has to happen in India. Too many desperate people and not enough jobs. The fear of being sent back is what drove the first lady. Everyone in India wants out. There are just too many people and not enough resources.
6
Fraud is cultural, has nothing to do with poverty. Populations from well to do countries are engaged in some of the worst frauds out there. The assumption that the poor engage in fraud is bigotry. Madoff wasn't a poor man.
7
True, I've traveled to like 25 countries, and the only difference is corruption and fraud are more vertical (from head of state to post office) in poorer countries. Recall in the U.S., we had savings and loans crisis, mortgage crisis, and have a system of legalized and institutionalized bribery of politicians (lobbying, Citizens United, revolving door between federal agencies and contractors, ...). There are dishonest people everywhere. Get smart and they lose.
4
One effective way to have these callers never again that I've used is to say " Can you call back later, I'm in the middle of making love?" Those idiots don't know what to say!
10
The best defense against robocalls is to use NoMoRobo, a service that's been endorsed by the FTC. It's free for landlines, and there's a small monthly fee for cell phones. The setup can be done in minutes by anyone who can use a computer, and using it requires no action at all.
After installation the vast majority of robocalls ring once and then stop. I've had it for months, and have experienced a huge decrease in the number of calls coming through. Legitimate robocalls, like appointment reminders from doctor's offices, get through without a problem.
After installation the vast majority of robocalls ring once and then stop. I've had it for months, and have experienced a huge decrease in the number of calls coming through. Legitimate robocalls, like appointment reminders from doctor's offices, get through without a problem.
5
Call me racist..........but when I need to call one of these centers I ask for someone who is American. Companies don't tell you this but once you ask, these people have to transfer you. I did this when I called Best Buy. I can barely understand the way they speak and they are for the most part rude. On two occasions I spoke to two women supervisors and told them to slow down the way they speak ( I am from NY and I thought I talked fast), both didn't so I hung up on them and found a workaround. Never give out any sensitive information no matter where they say they are calling from.
12
Nothing racist about asking to speak with someone you can understand. I am of S. Asian descent myself and see no issue with that. What I would have an issue with is assuming that people who speak like one's own self are honest, and others are dishonest. Besides being naive, that's probably at least xenophobic, if not racist as well.
15
I used to try to shame them - "Does your mother know what you do for a living? does she know that you scam people for a living?". Occasionally, I got profanity in return.
I've since switched to NOMOROBO, which blocks the calls after a single ring. When I first installed NOMOROBO, we were still getting the usual 6 - 8 calls/day. Now, we're down to less than that per week.
I've since switched to NOMOROBO, which blocks the calls after a single ring. When I first installed NOMOROBO, we were still getting the usual 6 - 8 calls/day. Now, we're down to less than that per week.
107
I use that as well, and it's been fantastic. However, the other night (1AM!), I received several robo calls - I didn't pick up but they were able to leave VMs. I'm now worried that they have found a way around the blocks. So frustrating. :-(
4
I can't believe it. I tell them the same thing !!! I thought I was so original. Bravo .
Sometimes I talk to the Indian tech support scammers in Hindi and a few admit that their family members do not know to the shady work they do. Specially they shield their mothers from this.
3
Too many calls from Microsoft. I tell them to stop the fraud and get a real job and they curse me to hell and call me names. And this is why I pay Verizon for Phone service!
2
Um, Verizon uses Indian call centers...and they are awful!
3
Um, Verizon has Indian call centers and they are awful!
@lechrist - Um, I use Verizon and have never once spoken to an India based call center.
3
There may be little we can do about these overseas calls, other than avoid being stupid. However, why can we not do anything about calls from America that come in trying to sell or scam us? I don't answer most, but I take some calls with spoofed ID showing up as local calls. Most common recently have been vacation offers falsely claiming to be from some reputable hotel chain.
These people are clearly native speaking Americans. It should be easy to trace credit card info back to the operators. Why is it not a criminal act to operate, or use the services of, a call center that violates the do-not-call list? Civil actions have not stopped these calls. Prison time would.
These people are clearly native speaking Americans. It should be easy to trace credit card info back to the operators. Why is it not a criminal act to operate, or use the services of, a call center that violates the do-not-call list? Civil actions have not stopped these calls. Prison time would.
11
About 2 years ago, I called what was supposed to be a comcast service number as I was experiencing internet problems. I was told by the young man from the call center that if I sent $150, my problems would disappear. I found another number for comcast , told them what happened (this call office was in the US) and was told that this wasn't something that comcast would do. (Turned out it was comcast-related and was finally fixed)
4
The biggest issue of all is the fact that we have a useless do-nothing Congress that refuses to act on matters of any importance to the American people such as prosecuting scam phone call centers.
Scam telephone calls have become so common and constant that I never answer my phone unless the number is already in my contacts.
There is NOTHING important that ever comes from a phone call these days.
If you owe taxes the IRS sends a certified letter.
If you are in any kind of trouble the police knock on your door.
You never will get a "heads-up" phone call first, let alone a price to pay in prepaid cards to avoid prosecution.
Scam telephone calls have become so common and constant that I never answer my phone unless the number is already in my contacts.
There is NOTHING important that ever comes from a phone call these days.
If you owe taxes the IRS sends a certified letter.
If you are in any kind of trouble the police knock on your door.
You never will get a "heads-up" phone call first, let alone a price to pay in prepaid cards to avoid prosecution.
10
Ummmm. Congress is the
biggest scam of all.
biggest scam of all.
2
Committing telephone fraud IS against the law (18 USC 2325-2327), thus the "do-nothing Congress" has addressed this. They write laws but have no power to prosecute anyone - that falls to the Executive Branch headed by the President. The problem is that prosecuting it is very difficult especially when the calls originate from overseas, where we have zero jurisdiction to act.
4
I used to get calls like this, first time was a few years ago and got worried then a friend notified me of these scammers. Next time onward I let them leave a message and never bother to answer or pickup the phone.
Having a land line has too many pitfalls , one has to put up with annoying phone calls.
Being in OH was worse during election from Trump-sters , then came the holiday season.
So many folks these days do away with their land lines for such reasons.
Having a land line has too many pitfalls , one has to put up with annoying phone calls.
Being in OH was worse during election from Trump-sters , then came the holiday season.
So many folks these days do away with their land lines for such reasons.
2
Perhaps you should get a new, unlisted number. Give it only to those you trust. Worked for us.
1
What is astounding to me is that people would think the United States Government would payment for fees and fines in iTunes or prepaid debit cards. The federal government needs to be much more aggressive in educating the public about these types of scams. Our local news station does a great job about publicizing these scams and trying to educate people, but I've never really seen a concerted effort on behalf of the public by government. Having worked for the federal government that gives me an advantage when these scammers call, because I know that the federal government would never operate in this manner. Unfortunately the elderly, new immigrants and other unsophisticated people can be scared into believing these things. I do remember on occasion when I was irritated enough to stay on line long enough to call the guy a crook. He didn't take it very well and actually hung up on me.
11
Years ago the hint of the slightest regional accent was enough to get locals a little suspicious and wary. Nowadays it's overwhelming. Recently my wife's computer froze up with some invasion alert the led me to a lengthy conversation with someone with a thick Indian accent. I finally hung up when I realized I was being attemptedly shaken down for two hundred dollars in some kind of malware scam. I have nothing against India, but when it comes to computers and people's voices, I just assume unplug them both and not hear a thing.
4
Let's provide these whistle blowers with incentives. Anybody who brings down and operation like this gets a US Visa. No doubt that they'll be hugely successful in the US as well.
3
Our reputation for gullibility is spreading fast. The next time a scammer calls asking for 10000$ to be wired in return for a high wage manufacturing job in the mid west, beware and just don't fall for it!
4
To punish Indian scammers and hackers, at what point do we ask Indian diplomats to leave the US&A?
13
Just after all foreign governments ask American diplomats to leave their countries because of all the drone strikes and invasions conducted by the US military and CIA throughout the world.
PS Mike - there is no ampersand in USA, or would only someone in Mumbai confuse "&" for the word "of"?
PS Mike - there is no ampersand in USA, or would only someone in Mumbai confuse "&" for the word "of"?
5
Given the scale of the problem, the US government should probably take a out a 30 second ad, and air it during a Sunday night football broadcast to remind Americans that: 1) its agencies don't cold call anyone and demand payment and 2) anyone who tells you that you can pay off your debt to the US government with a gift card of any sort is lying to you, and most importantly 3) the US government will not ask for any information that would compromise access to your bank account.
Something like that might get more Americans to hang up their phones when they get these sort of calls. But given the fact our government will probably continue to ignore the problem, I echo the advice of other here: don't answer the phone if you don't recognize the number!
Something like that might get more Americans to hang up their phones when they get these sort of calls. But given the fact our government will probably continue to ignore the problem, I echo the advice of other here: don't answer the phone if you don't recognize the number!
7
A simple solution to such problems including spamming and such fake calls: don't let emails or phone calls be free. Even a nominal cost of $0.10 per phone call or 1c per email will eliminate most of these calls and the spam emails which make people's lives difficult.
If the cost of such calls exceeds the expected profit then the calls will die a natural death. But if the cost is zero, well we know what to expect.
If the cost of such calls exceeds the expected profit then the calls will die a natural death. But if the cost is zero, well we know what to expect.
5
When I hear an Indian voice on the phone, I immediately distrust whoever it is. That is sad. These people are doing no service for their own country. They are giving India a bad reputation.
For this reason, I also dislike it when a legitimate company uses a call center based in India. I am glad that a person has a good job and can support their family. But I'm not pleased about having to discuss personal financial details with them.
For this reason, I also dislike it when a legitimate company uses a call center based in India. I am glad that a person has a good job and can support their family. But I'm not pleased about having to discuss personal financial details with them.
345
I agree, these scammers are doing no service to India. Not only they harm ordinary Americans financially, they use very filthy language when they get exposed. I have talked to many tech scammers in India and invariably they say, Americans are so stupid and why not take advantage. The fact is Americans are trusting and Indian scammers are very cunning. The take pride in the fact they are "chalaak", a Hindi word commonly interpreted as cunning.
4
I have to admit that I won't discuss personal information with people based in other countries. I've closed bank accounts when I found out the bank used a call center based overseas. There are no protections for customers when an organization does that.
7
Sad indeed. The worst part is that even legitimate call center employees give you the "Hi, I'm Brad Johnson" treatment with a heavy accent out of a Bollywood flick, which lets you know these people and their employers have no problem lying to you from the first sentence. Hard to stay polite after that.
7
There are many others more skilled and more crafty and dishonest than those you pointed out. Be very careful and cautious and do not part with your money for ANY reason, including fear of the government. You are, remember, an amateur....and those after your money are experts......
4
If Donald Trump wants to bring jobs back to the US, call centers is a good start. The rational would be to protect US citizens from criminals. By utilizing today's technology call centers in the US can be made, cost wise, competitive to outsourcing. Call centers in the US can be more productive and efficient and, moreover, it is the right of American consumers to have a stress, safe and hustle free customer service.
11
Everybody over 60 (and maybe everybody, period) should simply install a low-tech call blocker on their home phone line.
These are widely available, they cost about $40 and they are based on the principle of "white-listing" -- you ONLY answer calls from known numbers.
Any number not on the white list does not even ring your phone. Instead the block device intercepts the call and it goes to voice mail. If it's someone you want to talk to, you add them on the white list. Of course there is inconvenience to some legitimate callers and to you, but the cost benefit analysis for most people will be very favorable.
This gets rid of scammers but it also gets rid of charities and other business that rely on telemarketing -- which are, by and large, people you don't want to do business with anyway. There are so many deserving charities in the world -- why should you give money to the one that interrupts your dinner with a phone call? Just block them all.
White-listing is increasingly used by server administrators who are tired of relentless hacking attempts, most of them from the third world. They basically ban, by default, any IPs not already pre-authorized from having back-door access to their servers.
These are widely available, they cost about $40 and they are based on the principle of "white-listing" -- you ONLY answer calls from known numbers.
Any number not on the white list does not even ring your phone. Instead the block device intercepts the call and it goes to voice mail. If it's someone you want to talk to, you add them on the white list. Of course there is inconvenience to some legitimate callers and to you, but the cost benefit analysis for most people will be very favorable.
This gets rid of scammers but it also gets rid of charities and other business that rely on telemarketing -- which are, by and large, people you don't want to do business with anyway. There are so many deserving charities in the world -- why should you give money to the one that interrupts your dinner with a phone call? Just block them all.
White-listing is increasingly used by server administrators who are tired of relentless hacking attempts, most of them from the third world. They basically ban, by default, any IPs not already pre-authorized from having back-door access to their servers.
41
The call blockers only record a few hundred numbers, if that many. They are a waste of money in general. Furthermore, "people over 60" (I'm almost 70 so start being less discriminatory and thinking of using words like "people with dementia") are tech smart in general and penny wise overall. All people need to be told to not answer the phone if they don't recognize the phone number! If they insist on answering the phone you should insist that they conference you in. If they can't conference and the caller won't conference, their phones should be on a call forwarding system to whomever is looking out for them. My telephone provider provides this Ring Everywhere service so I always knew who was calling my 100 year old parents with dementia. I could easily pick up the phone before they did even when I was 3000 miles away.
I have all my calls roll over to my cell which I use to screen calls. I never answer my home phone because of the rollover and because I never give that number out so I know it's no one I know. I never answer unknown numbers, including from my area code and quickly add all new numbers that I want so I'll recognize them. If someone I'm doing businesses with is to call me back, I ask which number will they be calling from so I'll pick up.
I block my number should I test call unknown numbers back or I Google them. I use call reject from my cell as well. If I accidentally answer a call and it's a scam, I immediately block that number.
It's a daily job blocking numbers to be sure!
I block my number should I test call unknown numbers back or I Google them. I use call reject from my cell as well. If I accidentally answer a call and it's a scam, I immediately block that number.
It's a daily job blocking numbers to be sure!
Excellent for high call volume. I don't get many calls, so rely on caller id.
These scams only work on the uninformed. Immigrants mostly. I, of course, am presuming that natives are in tune with their tax situation and how the IRS works. If not, good luck.
3
If NSA can listen to every phone call and read every e-mail, why can't they be used in the battle against telephone fraud? Indeed, why can't they be used to enforce the "do not call" list, which has become an absolute joke? Frankly, I'd have a much more positive view of NSA if they did some real good.
435
One of the NSA's good points - they aren't trying to suck all the money out of my bank account.
2
The "do not call" list does work. Most people just don't bother to use it with any regularity. Similar to the Better Business Bureau, only the extremely aggrieved and the habitually cranky ever use the service. Much easier for the busy adult to just ignore the number or hang up the phone. How is law enforcement supposed to do anything effectual when the vast majority of crime goes unreported?
Furthermore, the Federal Trade Commission manages the call list, not the NSA. The NSA is primarily responsible for signals intelligence. The FTC is responsible for consumer protection. Big difference. If phone spam really annoys you that much, vote for someone that wants to give the FTC regulatory teeth. Personally, I'd prefer to see the FCC grow a spine first.
Furthermore, the Federal Trade Commission manages the call list, not the NSA. The NSA is primarily responsible for signals intelligence. The FTC is responsible for consumer protection. Big difference. If phone spam really annoys you that much, vote for someone that wants to give the FTC regulatory teeth. Personally, I'd prefer to see the FCC grow a spine first.
3
Whether a cyber/phone scam is local, national, or international, one of the law enforcement problems is that a victim does not know where to go for help. There are roughly 18,000 state and local law enforcement agencies in the USA, most of which have neither the expertise nor the time to investigate these individual, “minor” frauds. The NSA is doubtless overkill as a partner in fighting these crimes, but surely this growing problem requires a national not a local program.
1
Yeah, no kidding. How many of us have been receiving at least one call per day from a person with a heavy Indian, or Pakistani, accent, calling himself "Bill," or "Brad," or "Craig," telling you that he's calling from Microsoft to warn you about a threat to your personal computer, and wanting you to give him control of it, so he can "fix" it. Or maybe your "Bill" is calling to sell you solar panels. "Do Not Call" doesn't work, anyway, but it particularly doesn't work on these scams. Also, older folks, there's been a rash of "grandma calls," where your supposed grandchild is in big trouble, and needs you to send money. NEVER mention the gender, or the name, of your grandchild, let the caller tell YOU who is calling. Just beware.
17
I have caller ID. If I don't recognize the name, I don't pick up the phone. They never leave a message on the answering machine. If just a number is shown, sometimes I pick up. And if no one answers immediately, I hang up.
4
I love wasting these kids' time. They'll call about once a week and I'll play along for about 30 minutes or so, pretending to be on my way to the ATM. It always ends in them, angry and frustrated, swearing me off the phone. And yet they keep calling back.
One of the highlights of my week.
One of the highlights of my week.
14
This is just a result of American companies using cheap labor at India call centers. The profit of these call centers is decreasing so of course the call center owners decide to make money by using call centers to defraud Americans who can not defend themselves.
Time to recognize that most American companies and Indian entrepreneurs do not care how they make a profit.
Americans phone companies could easily deal with this problem, but they make a profit from every Indian worker that makes a call to try to defraud an American.
Time to recognize that Globalization simply means cheap labor and "anything goes" to make a larger profit.
Time to recognize that most American companies and Indian entrepreneurs do not care how they make a profit.
Americans phone companies could easily deal with this problem, but they make a profit from every Indian worker that makes a call to try to defraud an American.
Time to recognize that Globalization simply means cheap labor and "anything goes" to make a larger profit.
12
I will no long deal with American companies who off-source their call centers to countries like India where there are few protections for American consumers!
5
Good luck.
9
I do not ever, ever, ever answer a call from a number I don't recognize - ever, not at home, not on my cell, not at work.
If it's important, and genuine, the caller usually leaves a message and I return the call if I choose. No scammer has ever left a message on my voice mail. That's how you know.
If it's important, and genuine, the caller usually leaves a message and I return the call if I choose. No scammer has ever left a message on my voice mail. That's how you know.
434
also, their numbers do not appear on caller id. If it was a legit phone, especially govt, that number would appear.
You've never had a delivery driver call you? If you don't "ever, ever, ever" pick up, you might be waiting a long time for your pizza.
2
My daughter used to do that... until recently she picked the phone and it was a real collection agency trying to collect on a fraudulent charge on a faked Paypal account on her name.
Thanks God she answered the phone this time and later called Paypal to fix the problem.
Not answering is not necessarily a good idea. I usually just call back and if no one picks the phone send to the reject list.
Thanks God she answered the phone this time and later called Paypal to fix the problem.
Not answering is not necessarily a good idea. I usually just call back and if no one picks the phone send to the reject list.
7
Report suspected fraudulent numbers to the "Do Not Call Registry". Check your credit on a regular basis. Don't pay for either service. They're included in your taxes. Spam any email you didn't ask to receive. Don't open them. Clean your computer on a regular basis. Even the tech-savy mess up occasionally. If you or a relative isn't capable of doing this on your own, go to a reputable repair shop for help. It's like changing your oil. The computer needs to go into the shop every once in a while. The frequency depends on your habits. If you're not sure, annual is a good benchmark for all the above.
4
There are many lessons for all of us in this story.
I'm sure that many, if not all, of the employees at this call center knew that their actions were morally and legally wrong. But, over a period of time, we can rationalize almost anything.
We need to be less gullible and careful about giving away either information or money. Don't let skeletons in the closet force you to jump to conclusions.
Take whistle blowers seriously. Listen, understand and act fast.
I'm sure that many, if not all, of the employees at this call center knew that their actions were morally and legally wrong. But, over a period of time, we can rationalize almost anything.
We need to be less gullible and careful about giving away either information or money. Don't let skeletons in the closet force you to jump to conclusions.
Take whistle blowers seriously. Listen, understand and act fast.
This is a rather race-discriminating article. I'm getting zillions of fake messages on the phone all with perfect American accents and words of wisdom ("Hi, how are you today").
4
Yes, not only from India, but let's look at where it's coming from. I get IRS and credit card scams from US-sounding crooks, and fix your computer scams from Indians, who usually say something technically wrong, since I have a MAC instead of a PC. Cyber hustles are new, and require new self-protections.
2
I sometimes get calls from these guys. There's a temptation to pick up the phone and ask them "Does your momma know what you do for a living?"-- but that temptation should be resisted. Use Caller ID, ignore them if they don't leave a message, ignore them if they're obviously bogus.
6
As it happened, the United States government had been tracking this India-based scheme since 2013, a period during which Americans, many of them recent immigrants, have lost $100 million to it.
The Election gets hacked, the Pentagon gets hacked, foreign nations roam at will across US networks, and USGovernment watches as Americans are ripped off to the tune of $100 million.
Exactly who is protecting Americans from E-Crime?
The Election gets hacked, the Pentagon gets hacked, foreign nations roam at will across US networks, and USGovernment watches as Americans are ripped off to the tune of $100 million.
Exactly who is protecting Americans from E-Crime?
15
primarily themselves.
4
If there was, after Trump, there most certainly won't be. The sheep are plump with fur and ready for shearing.
4
The Republican House members keep cutting budgets which doesn't help, but I'm afraid way too many American workers who have jobs spend too much of their work time chatting on their cell phones, putting photos on their Facebook pages, or even playing computer games. Have you ever called a state agency only to have the person you need to talk to "away from their desk"? I realize there are "calls of nature" and lunch hours, but at 9am?
2
I received several calls from IRS scammers saying that I owed the IRS money, but I soon realized that this was a scam and reported it to the IRS online. I was unable to report it to a live person there.
5
This is not just fraud; it is financial terrorism.
I have received a few of the IRS calls, and MANY of the tech scam calls. They always begin with "I am calling about your Windows computer." This is a giveaway for me as I have a Mac, but the poor English of the always Indian callers would also be a giveaway. Tech company Indian employees always speak better English.
I used to play alone, then attack them with obscene threats involving castration. Now I just say I don't have a computer.
I wish the US government would get India to put these terrorists in jail.
I have received a few of the IRS calls, and MANY of the tech scam calls. They always begin with "I am calling about your Windows computer." This is a giveaway for me as I have a Mac, but the poor English of the always Indian callers would also be a giveaway. Tech company Indian employees always speak better English.
I used to play alone, then attack them with obscene threats involving castration. Now I just say I don't have a computer.
I wish the US government would get India to put these terrorists in jail.
17
I get calls once a week for a year now from an Indian call center. They tell me my computer must be turned on. That I have a serious windows infection and they must download a program immediately to fix it. It is always frightening for me to consider how many people must fall for this scam and download malware of some sort.
14
I get similar calls from people with Indian accent, ever since I purchased a DELL computer. They seem to know the basic number of my computer and want to come into it to "fix the critical problem". I do not allow them. But when I call DELL to report, the response is from Delhi center in India and same Indian voices respond. When I try to explain the problem, they advise me to call F.T.C. and hang up. Seems to me DELL needs to look into this situation or all DELL user must boycott DELL. I have called DELL HeadQuarters in USA and they just do not care!
8
@Madigan - Why are you angry with Dell, when the scammers are calling you from an illegal call center in another country on your phone? They're not responsible for scam phone calls, they only made your computer. Even Apple users with Mac computers get such calls.
3
I'm a middle-aged American savvy with computers, having worked in IT my whole career. I thought I was impervious to scams since I had installed security software from a known, trusted company ("ABC").
Two months ago ABC sent me an email saying that I didn't have adequate protection on my system. The email asked me to download a new module to update my security package. Not even thinking remotely about potential problems with this approach, I did as they asked. But the module wouldn't install, and it gave me an error code and a number to call. Not only that, but I was called several times from someone claiming to be their representative who would help me with this problem. So I called them back and was connected to "Chris Coleman," a fellow with a deep accent who spoke broken English. "Chris" told me he needed to "take control" of my system to search for viruses. Long story short, I finally tumbled to the truth when Chris asked me for my credit card to "buy" some new, improved security software!
After consulting with some expert friends I now have a reliable security system and a virus-free disk drive.
The moral of the story is that the scammers seem to always be one step ahead of us, particularly those of us who aren't constantly vigilant.
Don't let this happen to you!
Two months ago ABC sent me an email saying that I didn't have adequate protection on my system. The email asked me to download a new module to update my security package. Not even thinking remotely about potential problems with this approach, I did as they asked. But the module wouldn't install, and it gave me an error code and a number to call. Not only that, but I was called several times from someone claiming to be their representative who would help me with this problem. So I called them back and was connected to "Chris Coleman," a fellow with a deep accent who spoke broken English. "Chris" told me he needed to "take control" of my system to search for viruses. Long story short, I finally tumbled to the truth when Chris asked me for my credit card to "buy" some new, improved security software!
After consulting with some expert friends I now have a reliable security system and a virus-free disk drive.
The moral of the story is that the scammers seem to always be one step ahead of us, particularly those of us who aren't constantly vigilant.
Don't let this happen to you!
252
you need to be a lot more careful. Legit companies do not call out of the blue. it is way too expensive (and easy). Legit companies force you to go through hoops to fix any problems. Scammers make solutions sound easy and indivicualized.
2
abc, the american television network, makes security software ??
My email ATT.Net was hacked 2 years ago and when I called AT&T to correct it they sent me to a AT&T contractor who wanted $300 to fix it. Emter India, Good bye ME
2
Face it. Its time for America to see to its cyber defences. This country needs some some sort of organization to track and help the victims of cyber crime. The question is who does a person turn top when he think he is a victim oof such a scam?
3
These are largely phone scams, set up illegally in foreign countries. How exactly do you expect it's possible for "an organization to track and help the victims" when it's impossible to even know where the caller is let alone a phone number?
1
@lotusflower: US law enforcement and regulatory agencies (such as the FBI and FTC) regularly track international fraud and help victims. Betsy Broder, mentioned in this article, is an example of that. They often work with foreign law enforcement to take action against scammers located abroad. (This article suggests that the action against Mira Road was a unilateral Indian effort, though I'd be surprised if the US government didn't press the Indians to take action.) Presumably Jon Laughlin was suggesting that the federal government's work on this issue be more centralized, so that there is a single agency to coordinate such work.
2
I cannot believe in this day and age that people are still gullible to be swindled over the phone on a cold call. Really ?
You pick up the phone and say; '' Hello ''
''Babu'' on the other end starts in on his spiel; '' Hello, I would like to present to you an opportun.... ''
Click. Simple.
You pick up the phone and say; '' Hello ''
''Babu'' on the other end starts in on his spiel; '' Hello, I would like to present to you an opportun.... ''
Click. Simple.
9
Like other commenters noted: there are aging people out there who are the prime targets for this. They are who I fear for when I get one of these calls.
Don't be so smug.
Don't be so smug.
2
Well, since Reagan taught us that government is the problem, we are ripe for the picking. I don't care at this point if we never throw out another illegal if we would only throw out Rupert Murdoch, the cause of the death of reason and the pushing of fear.
10
so if Reagon never existed these scams would not either? I think you need to blame the root cause - these Indian scammers.
3
Ronald Reagan taught us it was okay to intimidate anyone. Just ask an air traffic controller.
2
intimidators existed long before Reagan.
Scams aren't going away. They will always be with us. To protect the rest of us from those who fall for these scams I suggest the gullible be immediately removed from the voters list.
5
I am a naturalized Indian-American and these bozos targeted me too. I responded to them by goading them to send the FBI and the local police and I promised them that I would be on the line with them while I was being arrested. The next time they called, I mocked them mercilessly for their skullduggery and malfeasance.
9
Be careful .. they will send a SWAT team to your house
1
I have had a VoIP line for 11 years and I never get those calls. I get emails with job offers from England that want my banking info and SS# to send my sign on bonus and sometimes a Nigerian prince needs my assistance and even though I could use that bonus and would like to meet a handsome Nigerian prince I just delete those.
9
The phone is becoming a worthless tool, I mean, if you are called and told to evacuate because of a tsunami, everyone would be like, sure, up yours. And so is the internet, particularly after our military starts attacking, watch out, there goes a good thing.
4
I formerly worked for a large international investment bank (which is now in a LOT of hot water for all sorts of malfeasance), and was given the choice: be terminated or go to India to train your replacements, or in Bankglish, "feed your own vultures."
It was blatantly obvious to the most casual observer that the long-term collateral damage from giving brilliant but impoverished young South Indians the keys to the treasury would be enormous.
But the higher ups who made the decision to outsource (and pocketed my salary, along with that of all the others that they made redundant as bonuses for being such brilliant businessman) are now long gone, and it is too late to lock the barn door. As a result of their decisions, Indian teenagers now have access to more personal and confidential information about you than you probably do yourself.
It will be verrrry interesting to see how this all plays out.
It was blatantly obvious to the most casual observer that the long-term collateral damage from giving brilliant but impoverished young South Indians the keys to the treasury would be enormous.
But the higher ups who made the decision to outsource (and pocketed my salary, along with that of all the others that they made redundant as bonuses for being such brilliant businessman) are now long gone, and it is too late to lock the barn door. As a result of their decisions, Indian teenagers now have access to more personal and confidential information about you than you probably do yourself.
It will be verrrry interesting to see how this all plays out.
28
Most of the comments on this article have no comprehension of dealing with older persons in the very early stages of dementia. Being the victim of financial fraud is often one of the first signs that someone is suffering from this disease. Caller ID is of no use to someone who is beginning to lose their faculties. I watched my father deal with this on a daily basis for six years, screening phone calls, intercepting letters from fraudulent charities and contests (an average of about six per day), and doing other things to protect a relative with dementia. He had to answer every call because otherwise the dementia sufferer would have picked it up. One called back and told him to look out his front window; he was about to be killed by someone waiting outside. Blaming people for being stupid may make you feel superior, but does nothing to solve the problem.
The people who run and work in these scams are truly the scum of the earth.
The people who run and work in these scams are truly the scum of the earth.
92
Thank you. I'm wincing at these comments calling people 'stupid' for falling for these things. My mother used to be an extremely sharp woman. Then her memory and judgment started failing. Now I live with her and control her finances, so these scammers can't take her.
Dementia can happen to anyone. Be careful who you call stupid; it could be you one day.
Dementia can happen to anyone. Be careful who you call stupid; it could be you one day.
13
Home calls can be routed to another phone. Your dad today would be able to intercept and/or block grandpop's calls.
The internet can be a wonderful place. Everyone has the same problems. I Google mine and always find a legitimate solution.
Also, we can finally take charge of mom and dad's bank accounts online and have their mail rerouted as well as get text alerts messages for any activity on their accounts. We can also change their phone numbers or make them private. We have to be proactive and take advantage of technology, just like the scammers do, to protect our elderly.
The internet can be a wonderful place. Everyone has the same problems. I Google mine and always find a legitimate solution.
Also, we can finally take charge of mom and dad's bank accounts online and have their mail rerouted as well as get text alerts messages for any activity on their accounts. We can also change their phone numbers or make them private. We have to be proactive and take advantage of technology, just like the scammers do, to protect our elderly.
1
I was called by several people many times. They left messages. I called them back every time, pretended I was scared and tried to find out which part of India they were from. I am Indian born myself. And then I shouted profanities. The scams were so mind bogglingly stupid that it never occurred to me that people would actually fall for them; otherwise I would have called law enforcement [I did try to scare these people by saying that I am going to sic the FBI onto them.]
Now that I see how real people can be hurt by these scums, let me warn readers: although Indians are the big players, there are other scammers out there. From Bangladesh, Pakistan and the Philippines. And they are working hard. Your computer freezing with a message from ``Microsoft'' to call them back is a popular one. They target mostly people with foreign names, assuming those would be the gullible people.
Now that I see how real people can be hurt by these scums, let me warn readers: although Indians are the big players, there are other scammers out there. From Bangladesh, Pakistan and the Philippines. And they are working hard. Your computer freezing with a message from ``Microsoft'' to call them back is a popular one. They target mostly people with foreign names, assuming those would be the gullible people.
3
Another scam is people who call claiming to be from "Microsoft Service Department." I'm pretty sure they are also based in India.
7
We suggest having one unlisted number and a second public number using two different carriers.
The public number is on one of those cheap emergency plans costing $25/month. We never answer the phone, even on the unlisted number without hearing a legitimate voice we know.
The result on the public phone is lots of scams, hangups and occasionally a message we need to hear (if the caller isn't part of our private inner circle). The private phone still has a few hangups daily, but all important messages/conversations (family/friends/financials/heath) get through fine.
Secondly, these scammers in India also involve American banks who hold mortgages. If you pay ahead, large American banks will wait to send the statement unless you complain. When you call, you will get an Indian person who will give you the runaround. The last one we spent an hour on the phone with called HIMSELF "Caroline" and insisted he was a "good Catholic." We got the latest statement, but it was a hellish experience.
Be forewarned!
The public number is on one of those cheap emergency plans costing $25/month. We never answer the phone, even on the unlisted number without hearing a legitimate voice we know.
The result on the public phone is lots of scams, hangups and occasionally a message we need to hear (if the caller isn't part of our private inner circle). The private phone still has a few hangups daily, but all important messages/conversations (family/friends/financials/heath) get through fine.
Secondly, these scammers in India also involve American banks who hold mortgages. If you pay ahead, large American banks will wait to send the statement unless you complain. When you call, you will get an Indian person who will give you the runaround. The last one we spent an hour on the phone with called HIMSELF "Caroline" and insisted he was a "good Catholic." We got the latest statement, but it was a hellish experience.
Be forewarned!
2
It breaks my heart to read that most of their victims were recent immigrants to the US. They were defrauding people like them, so they knew their vulnerabilities. They were exploiting the fear of the new country's authorities that is so much part of the immigrant experience. I hope those groups that help recent immigrants to the US read this story and do something to make people aware of the risk.
202
I don't know if these whistleblowers qualify for a visa to U.S.A., after once being on the team of scam artists. But their photo is on The New York Times. One is ready to climb Mount Everest with backpack and sports shoes, and the other is ready with folded hands to do Yoga.
As much as they reported the crime before it was independently detected by the officials, it seems to me they deserve some reward from the U.S. Government.
As much as they reported the crime before it was independently detected by the officials, it seems to me they deserve some reward from the U.S. Government.
1
@R Murty - They "reported the crime" after they were fired from their jobs due to an altercation with co-workers. So, no, they are owed nothing. If they hadn't gotten fired they'd still be working the phones trying to scam you out of your money.
2
I agree with you. They are the willing participants in an international fraud. They deserve some kind of punishment. But, they also broke through the U.S. Federal Bureaucracy and ultimately reached correct federal desk to report international crime. They deserve some credit. They say once the tiger tastes human flesh, it won't go back to the goat. So, these guys have started their career with a scam, and they are likely to continue to put their skills to use. I am surprised they are roaming free.
1
The IRS scasm ihas been going in for last few years. I never understood why did the IRS not engage the print , the radio & TV media to pass on the message to consumers. This was a simple task. IRS knew the scams were going on.
The report says the person said' They are afraid of the Government " because ours is a nation of laws. In India they know they can flout any law and in fact bring the person who is filing the charges in trouble.
With the advent of internet the Indian scammers will a field day
The report says the person said' They are afraid of the Government " because ours is a nation of laws. In India they know they can flout any law and in fact bring the person who is filing the charges in trouble.
With the advent of internet the Indian scammers will a field day
2
The danger with what you did is that he knows your phone number and you don't know his.
If I have the time and am in the mood, I try to see how long I can stall them and keep them on the line as long as I can. On one of the Microsoft virus calls I kept the guy on the line for 15 minutes. Although I was polite and made tongue in cheek lead on comments, by the end he was directing foul language at me. That was my entertainment for the day.
It's a good mental exercise to quickly come up with a ridiculous scenario to maintain the conversation and see how long it goes.
It's a good mental exercise to quickly come up with a ridiculous scenario to maintain the conversation and see how long it goes.
3
I used to hand the phone over to my toddlers. who loved to talk on the phone, when a telemarketer called.
7
These are both good solutions.
1
Oh yes, first Apple and now AMEX, phishing my in box, posing as the companies they are working for, demanding money. Disgusting.
4
We've received both the Microsoft and IRS calls. With the last faux IRS call, I let the woman get her intro spiel out and then lit into her, stating, "We know who you are and you are all a bunch of scammers and criminals and you should be ashamed that you are ..." And she hung up! Hung up on me! It was sweet.
1
Scammers with India accents call us regularly, telling us our computer is reporting to them that there is a problem on our end.
On the first call to me, I asked them which type of computer was notifying them of problems. He responded with microsoft.
I don't use microsoft computers, so I hung up.
Since then, when they call, I tell them they should be locked up for trying to scam me. They call on our land line, not cell phone.
I am yet to read about this scam, but it must be a common scam. I read this article to see if the Microsoft scam has been picked up yet.
How would one report this?
On the first call to me, I asked them which type of computer was notifying them of problems. He responded with microsoft.
I don't use microsoft computers, so I hung up.
Since then, when they call, I tell them they should be locked up for trying to scam me. They call on our land line, not cell phone.
I am yet to read about this scam, but it must be a common scam. I read this article to see if the Microsoft scam has been picked up yet.
How would one report this?
2
I received a call on my answering machine warning me of my imminent arrest. Of course I ignored it. But the weird thing was that it was on the exact same day I received a $12 bill from the IRS for interest because of my under-withholding.
Was it just a coincidence? Or did someone have knowledge of this bill?
Was it just a coincidence? Or did someone have knowledge of this bill?
2
when i get calls that i don't recognized, i answer and use my acting skills - i yell that i am a sick old woman, that i am going to call the police if they call again, etc etc - i am SO GOOD i think i should get an acting award. Works every time - they hang up and never call again .
3
I cannot imagine anyone foolish enough to believe these callers. I've never gotten the IRS scam, but I get calls from Window's Technical Department quite often (or some other bit of nonsense). The US could shut this down if they wished, either by cracking down on the call center business or by cracking down on international payments.
8
It is sad to see how Americans are gullible and scared. The home of the free, the land of the brave... And scamming and playing on their insecurities became such a big business to employ thousands of people in India. Absolutely astonishing. They called me, too. First, I rarely if ever pick up the phone, I always screen my calls. My wife got startled once by a call from IRS. I got through the accents and the spiel and quickly realized it was a scam. So, I called them back and told them they got the FBI fraud prevention field office, agent Smith. I figured if they could be IRS, I could easily be FBI. We both have similarly thick accents. They did not call back.
5
Because we are afraid of our own government, our own police and most of all, the IRS.
1
An important thing to remember about this and other scams is that they're in their infancy. They don't work as well as they could because most of the time they're not believable to the average person. The scammers have plenty of time and motivation to get better at it.
I was the lucky recipient of probably 100 of these calls over several years, and I watched the scam evolve, with interest. At first, it was laughable: Guys with heavy accents, claiming to be "Steve Martin" (seriously?), using language that was very British influenced and awkward sounding. After about 3 years, the caller became an educated sounding Indian woman, with the language and agency names considerably cleaned up. Then, the messages became computer generated so no accents and no names. Etc.
I think we're unlikely to get smarter, but they can only get better at scamming.
I was the lucky recipient of probably 100 of these calls over several years, and I watched the scam evolve, with interest. At first, it was laughable: Guys with heavy accents, claiming to be "Steve Martin" (seriously?), using language that was very British influenced and awkward sounding. After about 3 years, the caller became an educated sounding Indian woman, with the language and agency names considerably cleaned up. Then, the messages became computer generated so no accents and no names. Etc.
I think we're unlikely to get smarter, but they can only get better at scamming.
191
Actually, I believe it works the other way around. They don't want to waste time on the more savvy people that won't fall for it. So they often make the claims sound particularly stupid. That way, if the person doesn't immediately hang up, they know they have a live one and can really push it.
3
Computerized calls made to a cell phone are a violation of the Telecommunications Privacy Act and allow for damages.
Per Ron White: "Ya can't fix stupid."
1
It's not stupid. It's vulnerable.
And afraid, of the gov't, the IRS, the police etc. it's systemic.
And afraid, of the gov't, the IRS, the police etc. it's systemic.
1
Hate to say this but when anyone who calls me on my 'hardly ever rings' landline, with an obvious foreign accent, I immediately hang up. That is if I even answer it.
Those with elderly relatives should set up their phones so that only accepted numbers ring through. Just as you can with your emails. Techno predators are daily scheming up new ways to bilk unsuspecting people. The one fraud I can't understand is how do scammers get federal or state income tax returns diverted to them? Can't that be tracked, as to which bank it was deposited into? As the advent of putting everyone on to electronic or cyber 'money' and the push to eliminate a cash society, I worry we'll be inundated with more and more electronic fraud. Yet none of our laws are reflected in this nor have caught up. The telephone 'do no call list' can't even be instituted properly. Ever get your bank account cleaned out? If you haven't, worry, because it WILL happen. And believe me, nobody cares. Can't report the theft to the 'electronic police'. Yet it is theft on a large scale. Cyber thieves are smarter, they don't need guns to rob innocent people.
Those with elderly relatives should set up their phones so that only accepted numbers ring through. Just as you can with your emails. Techno predators are daily scheming up new ways to bilk unsuspecting people. The one fraud I can't understand is how do scammers get federal or state income tax returns diverted to them? Can't that be tracked, as to which bank it was deposited into? As the advent of putting everyone on to electronic or cyber 'money' and the push to eliminate a cash society, I worry we'll be inundated with more and more electronic fraud. Yet none of our laws are reflected in this nor have caught up. The telephone 'do no call list' can't even be instituted properly. Ever get your bank account cleaned out? If you haven't, worry, because it WILL happen. And believe me, nobody cares. Can't report the theft to the 'electronic police'. Yet it is theft on a large scale. Cyber thieves are smarter, they don't need guns to rob innocent people.
3
If your bank account is cleaned out and you did not make the withdrawals, why wouldn't the bank reimburse you? If you made withdrawals at the behest of Apu or Prisha, I suppose you are on your own.
4
Well once this happens to you, you will never know. When checking into my hotel, on vacation, my card was declined. It was a holiday and I could not get a hold of the bank.
Yes, you get it back but not right away and you must do a lot of footwork then get your account all straightened out. It took well over a week in my case. But when you have YOUR card skimmed at a restaurant/bar or ATM and you're out of the country, bon chance!
And even if one does get scammed by Apu, it does not make it right. Don't blame victims of scams.
Yes, you get it back but not right away and you must do a lot of footwork then get your account all straightened out. It took well over a week in my case. But when you have YOUR card skimmed at a restaurant/bar or ATM and you're out of the country, bon chance!
And even if one does get scammed by Apu, it does not make it right. Don't blame victims of scams.
1
Globalization is a wonderful thing. Enjoy!
7
I've got my land line hooked into Nomorobo which allows the phone to ring once before cutting off the call. Somedays, it still rings 5 to 10 times a day. When I pick up a scammer on my cell phone, I hang up and immediate press the "block this caller" feature on the information window to avoid repeat calls from that number, as it presents itself at that time. I'm still frustrated that more cannot be done, but encouraged reading this article to learn about raids in India, and that there is at least one employee of the Federal government monitoring this problem.
But I am also aware that for me, this is a small inconvenience. The real scam which will steal far more from vulnerable Americans, is what happened in the GOP meeting last night, gutting the ethics rules so the Trump era great kleptocracy can begin.
But I am also aware that for me, this is a small inconvenience. The real scam which will steal far more from vulnerable Americans, is what happened in the GOP meeting last night, gutting the ethics rules so the Trump era great kleptocracy can begin.
11
No surprise people are this gullible, they elected Trump.
32
So very easy to avoid being taken in by these phone scams: just don't answer the phone any time you don't recogise the caller. Then look up the number on Google and see if it's been reported already as a scammer, and if you feel so moved, and if you are registered on both state and Federal "do not call" lists, report it on fcc.gov as a complaint, You'll never hear from them again if you take the last step.
133
The only defense is to stop answering the phone, or immediately hang up when you hear its a sales call. Direct phone selling/scamming is an old game, but now its a real annoyance for those of us who rely on cell phones for clients to call us. The scammers have moved from hard wire to cell numbers, they keep "improving " their skill.
The cell providers could do much more, but they don't want to spend any money to enforce against misuse, they make money with the increase in calls.
Fed laws are totally inadequate.
The cell providers could do much more, but they don't want to spend any money to enforce against misuse, they make money with the increase in calls.
Fed laws are totally inadequate.
1
I don't even answer the phone anymore at all. I only have it in case I need to call the Fire Dept.
6
I am on both lists. That works well for legitimate companies, not so well for offshore sites like this, who can simply change their numbers. The FCC cannot handle the vast scope of telemarketers and scammers, and a few years back offered a large sum of money to anyone - even hackers - who could develop software to eradicate it. That alone shows the lack of understanding, that they thought one software program would magically end telemarketing and scams. Like piracy and computer malware, it will never end but will be a continual tit-for-tat fight. There is no answer within our current technology, and the bad guys are always one step ahead of us.
I can't even get rid of TCF Bank bill collectors - if they even are that - calling my cell phone multiple times per day, every day, from multiple numbers. I've had this number for almost ten years, never had a TCF Bank account, or any dealings with them whatsoever. Three years ago they started calling, leaving voicemails because I don't answer calls from anyone I don't know. Always looking for Miss Williams, regarding her past due account. That's not my name, of course. I'll block the calls, and the next day they come from three new numbers: Same voices, same messages, for Miss Williams. Legitimate or not, after three years of never once answering the call or responding to the voicemail, you'd think they'd get the hint, wouldn't you? It's not going to happen - give up.
I can't even get rid of TCF Bank bill collectors - if they even are that - calling my cell phone multiple times per day, every day, from multiple numbers. I've had this number for almost ten years, never had a TCF Bank account, or any dealings with them whatsoever. Three years ago they started calling, leaving voicemails because I don't answer calls from anyone I don't know. Always looking for Miss Williams, regarding her past due account. That's not my name, of course. I'll block the calls, and the next day they come from three new numbers: Same voices, same messages, for Miss Williams. Legitimate or not, after three years of never once answering the call or responding to the voicemail, you'd think they'd get the hint, wouldn't you? It's not going to happen - give up.
2
American banks and credit card companies have entrusted Indian call centers with the most confidential financial details of Americans' lives.
These Indian call centers and their low wage employees have people's social security numbers, bank account numbers, drivers license numbears and so much more. They are beyond the reach of American law.
Nothing could be easier than for these call center employees to sell information to criminals and identity thieves or to use the information themselves.
It should be illegal for American companies to export this information. Those companies that do should be fully responsible for the harms caused by offshoring American call center jobs.
These Indian call centers and their low wage employees have people's social security numbers, bank account numbers, drivers license numbears and so much more. They are beyond the reach of American law.
Nothing could be easier than for these call center employees to sell information to criminals and identity thieves or to use the information themselves.
It should be illegal for American companies to export this information. Those companies that do should be fully responsible for the harms caused by offshoring American call center jobs.
15
Today I am far more concerned about the corruption of Congress, who voted yesterday (and will vote again within hours) to destroy the independent Congressional Office of Ethics.
Ask yourself why any responsible politician wouldn't want an office he or she could point to as verification that safeguards are in place to prevent wholesale corruption
P.S, 90% of this Mumbai-based crime would e eliminated it the victims just remembered that IRS, FBI and other federal agencies do not open cases on the phone.
They always get in touch with you by mail. - The Colonel
Ask yourself why any responsible politician wouldn't want an office he or she could point to as verification that safeguards are in place to prevent wholesale corruption
P.S, 90% of this Mumbai-based crime would e eliminated it the victims just remembered that IRS, FBI and other federal agencies do not open cases on the phone.
They always get in touch with you by mail. - The Colonel
7
Who in their right mind thinks that the IRS would want iTunes cards as payment? Or prepaid debit cards? Or would expect you to wire thousands of dollars to "Jennifer", who apparently has no last name? Even this woman's bank tried to tell her it was a fraud.
How much publicity do these scams have to garner before people learn? I'm a techno-nudge who doesn't watch much TV and even I am able to determine when an email isn't really from PayPal or the phone call isn't from Microsoft. Heck, even my 93 year old Mom is so aware of telephone scams she obsessively checks caller ID before answering the phone.
Time to get over the fear based way you live your lives. Take a breath, engage your brain, call a lawyer or even a level headed friend before you give up your entire savings to a voice on the other end of the phone.
How much publicity do these scams have to garner before people learn? I'm a techno-nudge who doesn't watch much TV and even I am able to determine when an email isn't really from PayPal or the phone call isn't from Microsoft. Heck, even my 93 year old Mom is so aware of telephone scams she obsessively checks caller ID before answering the phone.
Time to get over the fear based way you live your lives. Take a breath, engage your brain, call a lawyer or even a level headed friend before you give up your entire savings to a voice on the other end of the phone.
9
So this is how this works?: "Hey, this is the IRS. Our records show u are owing the federal government back-taxes for 2012 and 2013. We will freeze your bank accounts and throw yall outta your home tomorrow morning unless u head to Walmart NOW, buy 2000 dollars worth of iTune cards and send us the codes!"
And then those folks obligingly drive to the store, buy iTune credit, and phone the codes through?
Good for them!
And then those folks obligingly drive to the store, buy iTune credit, and phone the codes through?
Good for them!
2
I've gotten those fake IRS calls more than 30 times in the past year. Sometimes I play along and act scared and I give them a fake bank account number. I'm retired so its kind of fun to play along and tie them up for an hour on the phone. Other times I just hang up. Lots of times they leave a scary message telling me I must call back and ask for "Agent 26" and they say if I don't I will be prosecuted.
I also get phony calls from foreign sounding people who want me to turn on my computer and type in a certain web address (so they can get remote access to my computer).
I also get phony calls from foreign sounding people who want me to turn on my computer and type in a certain web address (so they can get remote access to my computer).
9
next time ask them to send the bill to 1600 Pennsylvania avenue.
2
I am glad for you that have the time & sense to waste their time. Please help your fellow retirees do the same.
@Ignatius - You do realize you're encouraging people to waste their own time as well? Just don't answer or hang up as soon as you realize it's a scam.
1
The same IRS people who laughed away these whistleblowers are also "auditing" Donald Trump's tax returns?
What does it take to get a special prosecutor or independent counsel appointed to take over and conclude the IRS audit of Trump's taxes?
It's unconscionable that a government agency should be put in such a compromising position as to "audit" the tax returns of the incoming president. There may well be evidence of tax evasion, racketeering and other crimes by Trump and associates.
Need to appoint BEFORE JANUARY 20 a special counsel to audit Trump's tax returns.
What does it take to get a special prosecutor or independent counsel appointed to take over and conclude the IRS audit of Trump's taxes?
It's unconscionable that a government agency should be put in such a compromising position as to "audit" the tax returns of the incoming president. There may well be evidence of tax evasion, racketeering and other crimes by Trump and associates.
Need to appoint BEFORE JANUARY 20 a special counsel to audit Trump's tax returns.
16
I believe I have been a victim of a similar scam. I received a message on my computer saying that I needed to contact the Tech Center immediately because of a virus. I did. To make a long story short, these Indian young men convinced me that my computer had viruses and to help me I had some options. I paid them $149 for an annual contract. They have been harassing me from time to time ever since.
3
Ooof. Time to disconnect.
A nation in which half the voters don't trust the government, are so afraid their closets are full of guns, rabidly believe in fake/Fox news and warped right wing conspiracy ideology, vote for a Party led by a narcissist sociopath that is the political equivalent of an organized crime syndicate....that nation's citizens are prime sucker bait for every scam artist on the planet.
32
“they actually are really afraid of their government,” ... in America they are afraid. We just need to tell them, ‘You are messing with the federal government,’ and that is all.”
Sad commentary on the Republic that is for the people, by the people, of the people.
We need a new social contract where people love their rulers, not fear them.
Sad commentary on the Republic that is for the people, by the people, of the people.
We need a new social contract where people love their rulers, not fear them.
3
As retirees, living in South Florida--ground zero for such scams--we surely have gotten our share of the "IRS Calling"; but, this is the first that I have ever head that I can pay my Tax Bill, next April 15, by just slipping some iTunes cards in the Return. Perhaps those Bit Coins just gummed the Government's computers up too much.
They probably feel that, out of every 100 calls, they make contact with people who are too lost in the past, shall we say, to separate a scam from reality. That must, in fact, be their targets. Unfortunately, those people probably should not be living alone or, perhaps, just not have access to cash, bank account numbers or credit card information.
https://thetruthoncommonsense.com
They probably feel that, out of every 100 calls, they make contact with people who are too lost in the past, shall we say, to separate a scam from reality. That must, in fact, be their targets. Unfortunately, those people probably should not be living alone or, perhaps, just not have access to cash, bank account numbers or credit card information.
https://thetruthoncommonsense.com
5
My solution: Screen all your calls using caller ID, and don't pick up on any call from a number that you don't recognize or a person that you don't know. Anyone with something legit to communicate will leave a message, and you can then check them or the company they work for out before responding at your leisure. Finally, if a caller comes up dirty via an Internet check, block the number to prevent them from calling you again.
40
Perfect solution for younger, tech-literate people Sadly, however, many elderly folks, who are no doubt the preferred targets of telephone scammers, would hear you say "caller ID" and think it's something you put around your dog's neck in case she gets lost.
3
Fools and their money are soon parted. The government of the US, on the other hand, really does very little to educate people about how to spot and avoid a scam. Also, people who have elderly relatives with access to money need to be on the lookout for scammers, of which there are many, who prey on the elderly. A few well placed advertisements informing people that the IRS and other government agencies NEVER operate this way may be more effective than all of the raids in India, where there is an endless supply of cheap technology and even cheaper labor. How about an ad during the Superbowl, or some other large widely followed event or two?
403
Actually, the State Department does have a website regarding these scams. The problem is, like so much of government, these services exist but are generally unknown to the public.
3
Is it fair to describe a cognitively impaired old man as a fool?
10
Public Service Ads? What a great idea. Too bad they died with the rest of our nation in 1980.
7
There are certain demographics more susceptible to telephone and internet scams, including the elderly and recent citizens, but purchasing iTune cards to give to the IRS? It's incredible that anyone under any circumstances would not see through this scam. I wonder how many of these gullible victims voted for the president elect.
79
Authority -- in the form of a phone call from a serious and to-be-feared government agency -- can and does freak people out. They may or may NOT have been guilty of anything, but if the IRS is ostensibly "coming after you," you better pay attention, go along, do what they want. Because you don't want to wind up in prison. Even if you are 85 years old and your taxes are AOK. That's how many call recipients think. So the response? Compliance and fear. This fear and folding in the face of authority is what concerns me the most, because it does illustrate how we humans, Americans can and may and will crumble under government power. We all need to learn and exercise our resistance and intelligence muscles on the financial and political fronts, particularly at this time.
2
I worked with people with Alzheimer's. Yes, they might get confused and scared and fall for a scam.
10
Probably not that many. The scammers targeted immigrants who come from fairly corrupt systems. They would not necessarily know with certainty that the U.S. government doesn't take iTunes gift cards as payment. They might also have thought that this was a corrupt official soliciting a bribe to get them out of trouble, which would explain the sketchiness.
The system can seem pretty arbitrary anyway. I recall the story of an a court clerk who insisted that immigrants about to be sworn in as U.S. citizens wear formal dress -- to the point of insisting people run out and buy suits with money they didn't have. The only person who called her out on it was a person who'd been raised in America and knew the clerk didn't have the right to create and enforce a dress code. A million interractions like that and how are you to know what is legitimate and what's not?
The system can seem pretty arbitrary anyway. I recall the story of an a court clerk who insisted that immigrants about to be sworn in as U.S. citizens wear formal dress -- to the point of insisting people run out and buy suits with money they didn't have. The only person who called her out on it was a person who'd been raised in America and knew the clerk didn't have the right to create and enforce a dress code. A million interractions like that and how are you to know what is legitimate and what's not?
4
So let me get this straight: I allegedly owe back taxes to the IRS, and the solution is to buy iTunes cards and give the codes to a total stranger?
People are really stupid enough to fall for this?
People are really stupid enough to fall for this?
239
Mostly they are elderly and confused and afraid of getting 'into trouble'. They are not necessarily 'stupid'.
8
old age + dementia at work.
5
Yes, sadly they are. But they are also our grandmothers & grandfathers. And they are vulnerable. And one day so will we.
A little compassion goes a long way.
A little compassion goes a long way.
5
I've gotten many calls from men and women with strong Southeast Asian accents telling me that they were calling from Microsoft because my computer had been compromised in some way. Sometimes I mess with them for a few minutes but not long enough to find out how they would try to get money from me. I can't imagine someone dumb/terrified enough to fall for this one! I've also gotten a few calls from Indians (probably) telling me the US govt wanted to give me $9,000 for being a good citizen and paying my taxes on time. LOL
37
To a lot of older people who weren't raised on computers there's still a lot of uncertainty about what to do when these scams pop up. When someone, like taday's young computer users for whom they are part of normal life, learns cynicism early on it becomes quickly their nature. It's harder for some of us who have to forget everything contrary to that first, before learning this new normal cynicism for the first time. Maybe in a number of years when these generations are all dead, this cyberstuff will right itself naturally as any other normal part of life does. Nature fixes things for good. New and more laws are just bandaids, but the underlying condition remains.
2
The Microsoft scam was another huge one. I received calls, as did a close friend, whom I had told about the scam. He told the caller that this was a scam and the caller exploded, and started cussing at him in heavily accented English.
2
Anyone can be scammed by one thing or another no matter how smart they claim to be, this is why fraud still exists. Everyone has a vulnerability or two. The best things we all can do is to remain vigilant and protect elderly and underage family members.
6
Now I get it, those were the people used to call me and said there was virus on the computer that I was using!!! I hardly use my computer, I'm on my iPhone most of the time. And when they called, I was away from my computer . Every time they called I was the one who pumped them the questions, like: which computer? What brand? How many inches screen? Where did you get my number ? I think they were tired of that and stopped calling me. Phew!
46
The scam operators know the vulnerabilities of poor Hispanics and offer loans to pay up debts or taxes at low interest rates or interest free for a number of months. The caller says his name is "Antonio," "José," or another common Spanish name. They offer a sample of a "miracle" drug or medicine and ask for a credit card number to cover shipping costs. The supposed subscription will be cancelled only if the "client" calls or informs the sender to cancel it, otherwise the credit card will continue to be charged. Many victims cannot detect Indian accents and fall for the scams. The deregulations advocated by Republicans, the erosion of privacy rights, and the elimination of consumer protection agencies have turned this type of scams into big business.
21
Well, Lara, we should just look at it as a new growth opportunity for jobs thanks to our new Scammer in Chief.
Great. Most American banks outsource their IT departments to India. How long will it take Indians, who think that "the US cheats the whole world," to graduate from small swindles like those described in this article to much bigger swindles involving US banks.
Trump, if you are reading this, please do the needful and force the US banks to bring their IT departments back home. (If someone's going to swindle a bank, let it be an American.)
Trump, if you are reading this, please do the needful and force the US banks to bring their IT departments back home. (If someone's going to swindle a bank, let it be an American.)
64
Aren't you wildly extrapolating based on one person's comment in an article? One person out of over a billion people in India? Really?
1
I agree. We might as well keep the stolen money at home!
1
I'm young enough to know these scams are what they are. My mother is not so I am very thankful she uses a Mac. Not virus proof as Cupertino cult members tell us, but harder to seize control of.
Another rational, but police lot incorrect, rule of thumb: if someone calls you, speaks very imprecise English, stumbles over your name, calls all computers "personal Windows pc computer" and you can hear the bleed over from a hundred other people in the same room...it's probably a scam from India.
Sadly for the elderly and less computer savvy, even if these scammers were somehow removed from the mix, there are plenty of criminals right here at home calling around with great reverse mortgage deals or claiming to be a decedent' wife etc.
Another rational, but police lot incorrect, rule of thumb: if someone calls you, speaks very imprecise English, stumbles over your name, calls all computers "personal Windows pc computer" and you can hear the bleed over from a hundred other people in the same room...it's probably a scam from India.
Sadly for the elderly and less computer savvy, even if these scammers were somehow removed from the mix, there are plenty of criminals right here at home calling around with great reverse mortgage deals or claiming to be a decedent' wife etc.
34
Sadly, but for the best, my elderly mother is not online, although I think she would enjoy it. She's just too vulnerable.
Me? Once you go Mac, you never go back. All about the firewall.
Me? Once you go Mac, you never go back. All about the firewall.
1
Apple tech support people are US based, too..
1
I disconnected my answering machine some time ago, and will only pick up the phone if I recognize the caller ID.
26
The first time I received the infamous Microsoft virus call I let the guy walk me through it to see how the scam worked and it was just as I had expected: they (eventually) have you open Event Viewer in which a number of "Errors" can be seen - all of which are normal for Windows - which most users are unaware of.
First of all, Microsoft will NEVER CALL YOU! (They do not have the phone numbers of tens of millions of Windows PCs owners). When scammers call either tell them you don't even own a computer or that you own a Mac. They'll try to argue with you but give up quickly.
Lastly, one of the commenters here boasted about calling the scammers back and giving them a hard time. That's highly unlikely as they mask their phone numbers as displayed on your caller ID. Ask yourself: Why on earth would an illegal scammer use a legitimate, traceable phone number?
First of all, Microsoft will NEVER CALL YOU! (They do not have the phone numbers of tens of millions of Windows PCs owners). When scammers call either tell them you don't even own a computer or that you own a Mac. They'll try to argue with you but give up quickly.
Lastly, one of the commenters here boasted about calling the scammers back and giving them a hard time. That's highly unlikely as they mask their phone numbers as displayed on your caller ID. Ask yourself: Why on earth would an illegal scammer use a legitimate, traceable phone number?
26
I've listened to these scams on YouTube. These scammers utilize extortion and threats of arrest. These people have no remorse. This level of corruption goes straight to the top in India. It's interesting Mr. Poojary and Mr. Dubey mention they're not afraid of the Indian Police.
29
My father, vaguely quoting a famous aphorism, used to say "no one ever went broke overestimating the intelligence of the American public." These scams are nothing compared to the Trump scam and it's going on before our eyes.
202
I think that quote can be attributed to H.L. Mencken.
3
And it was "underestimating the intelligence of the American people."
2
You mean "underestimating," I think.
1
If it were in the financial interests of the large telecom corporations to end this, they would find a way to filter out theses calls. If it were in the interests of our federal government to actually protect the majority of its citizens, this would have ended a long time ago.
24
Tech support scam from India is huge. There are hundreds of fake call centers in Delhi, Noida, Gurgaon, Jaipur, Chennai, Hyderbad, Mumbai, Chandigarh, Dehardun and other cities. They scan innocent Americans, British and Australians. Microsoft, FTC, FBI and telecom companies need to do far more to stop this. The Indian scammers when exposed, use very filthy language. Just see hundreds of Youtube videos made by scam-baiters by searching for the term "tech support scam".
1
In case you haven't been paying attention: We're going to get ever less regulation from now on. Don't expect anything at all from that next government that might remotely benefit the average citizen. All of government will now officially be working for the 1% exclusively.
3
I DO think that hacking the American governments and banks is more challenging than swindling ordinary people if you were indeed talented enough.
3
I actually enjoy these calls. Each time I receive one it's a competition to see how long I can keep the caller on the phone.
27
Keep a loud whistle near by your phone for real fun!
2
When I'm bored I play a game with the tech guys from "Windows" who want to fix my computer, to see how long I can keep them on the phone.
13
We get calls from India like that about twice a week. "US Pharmacy" wanting to "refill our prescriptions". I always ask how the weather is in Bangalore, or Mumbai, or Kolkata. "No no, we are in North Carolina!" Uh huh.
13
Actually, considering how corrupt North Carolina is becoming, it is possible they are there! Charlotte is a major banking center and we know how the banks have all been behaving in recent years!!!
As a young man I was trained as a collections agent by a major retailer. I was taught all manner of tactics to get people to pay their bills. We were paid a bonus and promoted if we got tough. There was no Fair Debt Collections Practices Act then but still there were laws and our employer taught us to ignore them. I helped set-up call centers in Madras, Bangalore and Bombay, so far back those places still had those old names. Over the years I've also interviewed for jobs in the U.S. that involve scamming people over the phone. Never took the job though. This kind of fraud doesn't just originate overseas. We need a stronger Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, yet the President-Elect wants to gut the office.
835
TH Williams--Yeah, the Office of Ethics will come later, when people are lulled into thinking all is well..
1
I'm sorry, but to your point, the government has all kinds of agencies and departments for fraud - they do nothing. I cannot for the life of me understand why they exist when they do nothing. Even the do not call center doesn't work. I get 10 calls a day across 3 phone lines minimum. IRS calls, computer issue calls, etc. etc. Even 'Rachel' is back to her tricks trying to get your credit card info; Rachel is the one group that was supposedly 'caught.'
WE DONT NEED MORE AGENCIES IN DC. WE NEED THE ONES THAT EXIST TO DO SOMETHING, TO HAVE AN IMPACT, TO ACTUALLY TAKE CONSUMER GRIEVANCES AND WORK ON THEM. But we don't need more agencies whose budgets are in the billions, but are incapable of doing their job. I say eliminate the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, we've already got departments that are supposed to do something. Obama never got this. He saw the inefficiencies in the existing departments, but was afraid of political fallout if he criticized them. So, he just created new ones. That, my friends, is the definition of insanity. (waste too)
WE DONT NEED MORE AGENCIES IN DC. WE NEED THE ONES THAT EXIST TO DO SOMETHING, TO HAVE AN IMPACT, TO ACTUALLY TAKE CONSUMER GRIEVANCES AND WORK ON THEM. But we don't need more agencies whose budgets are in the billions, but are incapable of doing their job. I say eliminate the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, we've already got departments that are supposed to do something. Obama never got this. He saw the inefficiencies in the existing departments, but was afraid of political fallout if he criticized them. So, he just created new ones. That, my friends, is the definition of insanity. (waste too)
1
Well, he's supposedly open to changing his mind. If he really cared, he would do all he can to stop these scams.
You take American IT Jobs and your Customers data and give it to somebody who has no qualms about stealing from Americans and this is what you get. These Thieves are probably also failed programmers. Lying on their Resume and CV is also common practice. I have had the miserable experience of working with inept/incompetent programmers since Y2K. This is a Direct Result of American Corporate Greed and the gutting of American staffed IT departments.
56
Many of the tech support scammers in India have just done high school education. They go to English accent enhancement course. In fact on the last day of the course they go through the "Christian fake name ceremony" where they introduce themselves in the class as "Michael, Jessica,Ron, Annie etc.
In their fake support job, they are given a script to follow by giving for example to run MS Windows commands. The ordinary American is fooled into believing the resultant output of those commands are virus or external hackers.
In their fake support job, they are given a script to follow by giving for example to run MS Windows commands. The ordinary American is fooled into believing the resultant output of those commands are virus or external hackers.
2
Willy Sutton lives!
1
beware of calls saying they are microsoft tech support - blocking your e mail etc.
ransom ware, etc: all these calls are from india.
ransom ware, etc: all these calls are from india.
5
So what!
Other than actually having your credit card info stolen or your bank account hacked, if you are stupid enough to fall for these scams you deserve what you get.
Other than actually having your credit card info stolen or your bank account hacked, if you are stupid enough to fall for these scams you deserve what you get.
4
No one *deserves* to be taken advantage of like this. Period.
10
Sorry, Howard, not everyone caught up in these scams is stupid and deserves to be defrauded. Spare a thought at least for older people who may be confused and easily frightened.
4
Until it happens to you.
2
I've had quite a few of these calls, purportedly from Microsoft and have called them to see if these were bogus. Microsoft said they never call customers "cold," so it should be ignored.
What I find so disturbing about these and similar calls is a growing sense that it is not clear what is real and what is fake. Like the "fake news" that has been discussed in recent NY Times articles, these fraudulent calls have a disorienting effect because what is a lie and what is the truth becomes blurred. It's hard to know what and whom to trust. In that situation, we are more prone to reach out to some authoritarian figure to rescue us from all the uncertainty.
I've been trying to think of a term for this evocation of confusion between true and untrue and the best I could think of is the "Gracy Allen Syndrome" in which an endless flow of mindless babble has the dizzying effect of confusion.
What I find so disturbing about these and similar calls is a growing sense that it is not clear what is real and what is fake. Like the "fake news" that has been discussed in recent NY Times articles, these fraudulent calls have a disorienting effect because what is a lie and what is the truth becomes blurred. It's hard to know what and whom to trust. In that situation, we are more prone to reach out to some authoritarian figure to rescue us from all the uncertainty.
I've been trying to think of a term for this evocation of confusion between true and untrue and the best I could think of is the "Gracy Allen Syndrome" in which an endless flow of mindless babble has the dizzying effect of confusion.
17
One way to handle it is to say with a heavy accent, "no speak english, one moment please", put the phone down, call out a fake name, yell "telephone", then leave them hanging.
12
Or you can facilitate an extremely loud loud whistle.
2
Since the NSA is listening to all these calls anyway, why not give them the actually useful job of stopping the scams.
81
1) The IRS never, ever initiates a phone call re one's financial matters. Contact is always through a letter. 2) Never provide personal information to anyone who has called you. Instead, if you think the contact is legitimate, ask for a number where you can call them back. This also gives you time to research the number you've been given. Unfortunately, be suspicious of any contacts that solicit your personal information.
22
It's standard practice these days for legitimate US-based collection service agents to say "in order to verify that I'm speaking to the right person, could you please provide the last four digits of your social security number?" at the very beginning of the call, prior to identifying themselves or what account they're trying to collect. It's creepy and trains people to expect this sort of firm invasion. Bonus: I'm sure they justify the practice internally claiming they do it to comply with the FDCPA's prohibition against communication with third parties. As if third parties regularly answering a person's cell phone and pretending to be them is a thing that not only regularly happens, but results in a complaint and sanction against the collection agency.
You are correct the IRS never initiates a phone call, but the Dept. of Education outsources collections to private businesses that behave just like all the other collections agencies. The scam described in this article doesn't become distinguishable from standard practice in the US until they get to the gift cards (because the "legit" guys will take a payment right over the phone).
You are correct the IRS never initiates a phone call, but the Dept. of Education outsources collections to private businesses that behave just like all the other collections agencies. The scam described in this article doesn't become distinguishable from standard practice in the US until they get to the gift cards (because the "legit" guys will take a payment right over the phone).
2
Got a call from an Andrew McGowen, supposedly an FBI agent informing me that my IRS tax issues will cause me to be arrested in the next 24 hours if I did not send a gift card loaded with $2,500 immediately. His heavily accented English didn't seem right for someone of Irish heritage
Having a little fun, I wasted as much of his time as I could, ending with a question.
How is the weather in Mumbai today? Silence.
Having a little fun, I wasted as much of his time as I could, ending with a question.
How is the weather in Mumbai today? Silence.
80
If only everyone was as savvy as you.
No sarcasm.
No sarcasm.
The young man's observation that Americans fear their government much more than Indians do is very interesting. The land of the free indeed.
44
I believe you are taking his comment the wrong way. Indians do not "fear" their government because they have rights or are respected -- they do not fear the government because it is very, very corrupt and if you have money, you can bribe officials and get out of even serious crimes.
It would be more accurate if he had said "Indians feel utter contempt for their government".
It would be more accurate if he had said "Indians feel utter contempt for their government".
1
The next sentence belies your point. "It's easy to get out of anything in India." What he's saying is that, if you have means, you do not have to fear the consequences of breaking the law there. Murderers and rapists can buy their way out of prosecution, assuming that they don't attack people who have the money to counter-bribe the officials. Some rural police officers have even refused to investigate serious crimes unless the victims paid for the investigation.
Corruption is very much alive in the U.S., but if you break the law and the feds are gunning for you then you have every reason to be afraid. And that's a good thing.
Corruption is very much alive in the U.S., but if you break the law and the feds are gunning for you then you have every reason to be afraid. And that's a good thing.
7
A bribe (in India) means avoidance of arrest and prosecution. Perhaps, even a cut of action!
1
I was able to get the Microsoft scammers to stop by saying in a stern voice 'OK, Detective - you're on the line? This is the fraudulent call I want you to trace" and pressing any button on the keypad, which emits a tone that sounds like the start of a recording.
I am convinced they target older people, thinking we are too stupid to realize these are phony calls. I have no sympathy for these scammers and hope they're all locked up, bosses and callers. If you know it's a fraud and keep calling because "[t]he U.S. cheats the whole world" (an idiotic justification), you deserve whatever consequences ensue.
I am convinced they target older people, thinking we are too stupid to realize these are phony calls. I have no sympathy for these scammers and hope they're all locked up, bosses and callers. If you know it's a fraud and keep calling because "[t]he U.S. cheats the whole world" (an idiotic justification), you deserve whatever consequences ensue.
532
the govt no call list can weed out many of these calls
I have no sympathy either -- I get called and targeted all the time, perhaps because I am over 60 now. I'll try your little deception next time!
The most typical scam call I get is from young men with heavy Indian accents. They claim to be "Mike" or "Steven" and tell me they are from Microsoft or Hewlett Packard or Apple, and they tracked me down from a purchase of software or hardware, and that I need to "upgrade" and they will do it from their remote location -- but of course, I must give them my passwords and login information.
I know they are going for things like bank accounts, credit cards and the like. So I hang up, or annoy them (not as cleverly as you, alas). But it goes on and on. It must be a dozen places running the SAME scam, not just one big place.
I think the typical victims are elderly, or foreign-born immigrants, people who are confused, don't speak good English or fearful of government. It's just a deeply shameful thing, and it should be stopped entirely. There should be a way to report these places and have them blocked.
The most typical scam call I get is from young men with heavy Indian accents. They claim to be "Mike" or "Steven" and tell me they are from Microsoft or Hewlett Packard or Apple, and they tracked me down from a purchase of software or hardware, and that I need to "upgrade" and they will do it from their remote location -- but of course, I must give them my passwords and login information.
I know they are going for things like bank accounts, credit cards and the like. So I hang up, or annoy them (not as cleverly as you, alas). But it goes on and on. It must be a dozen places running the SAME scam, not just one big place.
I think the typical victims are elderly, or foreign-born immigrants, people who are confused, don't speak good English or fearful of government. It's just a deeply shameful thing, and it should be stopped entirely. There should be a way to report these places and have them blocked.
3
I once told a persistent caller that I would give him what he wanted, but he had to be really, really careful....my son was in the Mafia "and he likes to hurt people". No more calls.
5
Since they work on commission, keep them on the phone as long as possible. Make them believe that you are falling for the scam and drag it out as long as possible ("Wait, I need to find my reading glasses so I can rite this down" or "Hold on, there is someone at the door. I think it is the UPS man. I will be right back." etc) With a little creativity, you should be able to hold them on the line for at least a half hour. Finally, you can either: 1) Tell them that you will do as they instruct (so they will waste time searching for your payment)or 2) Say something really nasty to them and hang up. If you so the latter, you will usually get a call back from a supervisor telling you that you are a bad person (no soup for you).
7
Agree, waste their time but at the same time do protect yourself by not letting them access your PC (unless you make a VM, a vitual machine). Also not disclose any info about you. Keep notes. I have watched many scam-baiters' videos in Youtube (search tech support scam in Youtube)
3
For American consumers, the answer is simple: do not answer the phone unless you see a number that you recognize.
29
Or hear the voice of someone on your message machine
1
Many seniors still have landlines, with no upgraded services, so they do not see who is calling (caller ID) until they PICK UP THE PHONE.
My elderly aunt, who passed last year, had 3 phones in her apartment -- kitchen, living room and her bedroom -- and they were ALL pristinely preserved ROTARY DIAL PHONES. Seriously! She had never changed nor upgraded them. They still worked fine, but no features of any kind but dialing out or answering the ring.
She did not even have an answering machine, and I rather doubt she would have known how to set one up or use one. We offered to give her one, and set it up FOR HER, or to get her at least some touch-tone phones -- but she absolutely refused. This was what she had had forever, and what she was used to, and she had no intention of changing.
My elderly aunt, who passed last year, had 3 phones in her apartment -- kitchen, living room and her bedroom -- and they were ALL pristinely preserved ROTARY DIAL PHONES. Seriously! She had never changed nor upgraded them. They still worked fine, but no features of any kind but dialing out or answering the ring.
She did not even have an answering machine, and I rather doubt she would have known how to set one up or use one. We offered to give her one, and set it up FOR HER, or to get her at least some touch-tone phones -- but she absolutely refused. This was what she had had forever, and what she was used to, and she had no intention of changing.
5
Yeah. I do that. Boy, does it piss off legitimate callers. If it's important they'll leave a message.
Wait — Did I just read that Delta Airlines pays its India-based phone representatives $150 a month?
90
As the article correctly point out, that is a mediocre but viable living in INDIA. Costs of food, shelter, utilities, etc. are incredibly low in India, because of the vast population (1.2 BILLION people) and no minimum wage laws.
You can actually live on $150 a month there, and $300 a month would be a very middle class lifestyle.
You can actually live on $150 a month there, and $300 a month would be a very middle class lifestyle.
2
Yes, you did. And now you know why the customer service from Delta makes it one of the most loathed airlines around.
4
I don't think these are India's best and brightest running these scams, I have received many calls, and their accent (vs comverizonamazoncast's support) is a zillion times more noticeable.
1
I ,too, called the US Treasury with the number I was provided with on my answering machine from a perpetrator of this scam. The agent was totally disinterested and simply noted the information that I had been scammed __ report to some kind of bureau and no interest in the phone number. (And you guys publish an article about how wonderful Government bureaucrats are -- IMO they need to behave towards the public properly... and there needs to be an agency to take complaints, seriously. (Your senator's office (staffed by 20 year olds) also does not much so far as I can tell.) SHAMEFUL. And the lady at the bank should have taken the Indian lady into hand and called the police and the Treasury department. This one was preventable. Fear is a horrible thing.
11
i used to think the most dangerous American invention was the atomic bomb. As it turns out, another American military invention, Arpanet which evolved into the Internet, may be our undoing.
Nuclear weapons are too powerful to actually use. Digital technology can be weaponized by anyone. Now our Russian enemy uses it to install puppets in the White House and State Department. India allows huge businesses like those described here to victimize our most vulnerable citizens.
We all laughed a few days ago when Trump said we should go back to using handwritten notes sent by courier. But maybe he's on to something. I would send this comment that way if I could find my sealing wax.
Nuclear weapons are too powerful to actually use. Digital technology can be weaponized by anyone. Now our Russian enemy uses it to install puppets in the White House and State Department. India allows huge businesses like those described here to victimize our most vulnerable citizens.
We all laughed a few days ago when Trump said we should go back to using handwritten notes sent by courier. But maybe he's on to something. I would send this comment that way if I could find my sealing wax.
21
An interesting fact is that most, if not all, of the IT personnel working in this country have been replaced by workers from India brought over on contract by two large Indian owned firms. The others are from Israel.
2
Low level scams involving what amounts to chump change are like a Hydra and will never cease to exist. Wall Street's fraudulent mortgage scams were far, far greater, and contributed to the 2008 recession, yet the CEOs got nothing but golden parachutes.
43
I agree, those are far more serious and far-reaching, and the people behind those Wall Street and big bank scams -- let's call them "The Banksters" -- should have been indicted and prosecuted and faced stiff jail time.
However, OUR PRESIDENT the last 8 years -- one Barack Hussein Obama -- instead decided to "work with them" because "they knew how the system worked" and put many Goldman Sachs alums into his cabinet (hello, Tim Geithner!).
So nothing was done, and now, the statute of limitations on their massive crimes and greed and thefts has expired. THANKS OBAMA!
I do want to add that though telephone scams such as these are lesser than the major crimes of Wall Street and banks....to an INDIVIDUAL who loses the $17,000 that is their entire life savings, it is a very huge them. It might well ruin their life, lose them their house or apartment, put them on welfare or food stamps.
However, OUR PRESIDENT the last 8 years -- one Barack Hussein Obama -- instead decided to "work with them" because "they knew how the system worked" and put many Goldman Sachs alums into his cabinet (hello, Tim Geithner!).
So nothing was done, and now, the statute of limitations on their massive crimes and greed and thefts has expired. THANKS OBAMA!
I do want to add that though telephone scams such as these are lesser than the major crimes of Wall Street and banks....to an INDIVIDUAL who loses the $17,000 that is their entire life savings, it is a very huge them. It might well ruin their life, lose them their house or apartment, put them on welfare or food stamps.
3
"However, OUR PRESIDENT the last 8 years -- one Barack Hussein Obama -- instead decided to "work with them" because "they knew how the system worked" and put many Goldman Sachs alums into his cabinet (hello, Tim Geithner!)."
-------
And what, pray tell, do you think the Republicans would have done had they won the White House?
-------
And what, pray tell, do you think the Republicans would have done had they won the White House?
5
@MJ - The comments of @Concerned Citizen are often laden with hateful (and largely inaccurate) posts about President Obama. Notice the use of the President's given middle name, meant to scare those prejudiced against immigrants. @Concerned will need to find a new target to dislike after January 20th.
5
We always knew that India had plenty of tricksters, cheats, and liars, but then the country we shamelessly admire goes ahead and elects one as their President!
49
Every time my husband and I see an unfamiliar number, most likely a scam, we say "It's Brian" --one of my favorite fake names. I don' t even answer then landline anymore. I thought there was a do not call list. I seem to remember signing up for that periodically. I say periodically because I keep going back to the site because I continue to get calls. Ugh.
I would imagine this problem causes a lot of people to drop their landline service completely.
I would imagine this problem causes a lot of people to drop their landline service completely.
21
I think the govt no call list works....at least most of the time for me but you need to report things as they happen...
Our answering machine tells us it is usually Unavaila Bill.
3
They scam you on your cellphone just as easily.
There needs to be an effort to educate the public about these thieves and to inform people that the government does not make these types of calls.
4
A series of public information commercials -- on prime time TV and on the internet -- would go a long way to let people know THIS IS A SCAM and no government agency contacts you this way, nor asks you to "buy 30 iTunes gift cards" to pay your back taxes.
I'd target TV shows that have a lot of older viewers, and for the non-English speaking, perhaps foreign language channels.
I'd target TV shows that have a lot of older viewers, and for the non-English speaking, perhaps foreign language channels.
7
Bring on the PSAs!
2
A pretty glaring example of the type of globalized "blow back" we can expect from society's over saturation and dependence on technology. There's such a massive "glut" of tech savvy individuals around the world clamouring for the good life and seeking an end to their oppressive poverty that any form of criminality can be rationalized as the "lesser of two evils" as long as it makes money.
14
But these young men are skilled and educated for their society -- they are not untouchables or the poorest of the poor!
And they are earning what is a middle class income FOR INDIA -- it is not fair to compare it to the US. Costs in India are a tiny fraction of what they are here in the US -- rents, food, etc. And likely, due to the culture, at their age they live at home for free.
Most of these young men -- excepting these two brave and honorable young men featured here -- simply want "more". They want a western style "good life" with lots of money and possession. Even these two guys, who acted very honorably, want not to improve life in India but to immigrate to the US.
And they are earning what is a middle class income FOR INDIA -- it is not fair to compare it to the US. Costs in India are a tiny fraction of what they are here in the US -- rents, food, etc. And likely, due to the culture, at their age they live at home for free.
Most of these young men -- excepting these two brave and honorable young men featured here -- simply want "more". They want a western style "good life" with lots of money and possession. Even these two guys, who acted very honorably, want not to improve life in India but to immigrate to the US.
2
This is news?
4
Count me among those who educate these call center employees on the fine points of American vulgarity, usually by requesting they perform an anatomically impossible feat and asking them to describe what they see.
20
"I told him to be fruitful and multiply.
But not exactly in those words."
But not exactly in those words."
1
"a tech scam, which warned Americans that their computer had been infected by a virus"
My 90 year old father was tormented by these people for a year. He's semi-senile so he believed they were going to fix his computer and he gave them his log in and password. And he paid them for lifetime service on his PC.
Then they started calling and threatening him to send more money. Said they would destroy his PC. I had Montgomery County Police (MD) come to the house and provided them the contact info. They said they see this all the time and there was "nothing they could do."
I told them I had contacted the FTC but there was no one to speak with -- only a Contact Us form -- as if that would help.
I begged Dad to stop answering the phone but he didn't because he's lonely and that's what his generation does when the phone rings.
Returned after a 3 day trip to find receipts on the table for $300 worth of iTunes cards on the table. Dad doesn't even know what iTunes is.
So a feeling of total helplessness. No legal authority in this country is able to protect our elderly from this kind of fraud.
~
My 90 year old father was tormented by these people for a year. He's semi-senile so he believed they were going to fix his computer and he gave them his log in and password. And he paid them for lifetime service on his PC.
Then they started calling and threatening him to send more money. Said they would destroy his PC. I had Montgomery County Police (MD) come to the house and provided them the contact info. They said they see this all the time and there was "nothing they could do."
I told them I had contacted the FTC but there was no one to speak with -- only a Contact Us form -- as if that would help.
I begged Dad to stop answering the phone but he didn't because he's lonely and that's what his generation does when the phone rings.
Returned after a 3 day trip to find receipts on the table for $300 worth of iTunes cards on the table. Dad doesn't even know what iTunes is.
So a feeling of total helplessness. No legal authority in this country is able to protect our elderly from this kind of fraud.
~
904
I think, Apple (owner of iTunes card), Microsoft and telecom companies can do a lot more. US toll free phone numbers get redirected to Indian local phone numbers. Telecom companies should stop their toll free services. Microsoft for their own benefit should pursue the fake Indian tech support companies which claim to be Microsoft or Microsoft partners.
12
I highly recommend getting your father signed up with NOMOROBO, which will dramatically cut down the number of scam callers.
You should also look into getting power of attorney, so that you can put limits on his bank and credit card.
You should also look into getting power of attorney, so that you can put limits on his bank and credit card.
13
At a certain point, if your dad has dementia, you may need to settle him an Assisted Living home (or with you) and remove his access to a phone -- or get him a simple cellphone (like they sell at AARP) with the most minimal functions. Or remove his credit cards.
Seniors are very vulnerable to this, even ones who are in their right minds, and SCAMMERS KNOW THIS. Seniors with dementia are easy pickings. It is up to you to protect your dad!
If they only got $300 off of him....that was pretty minor and you are lucky. Most scammers try to get thousands of dollars.
Seniors are very vulnerable to this, even ones who are in their right minds, and SCAMMERS KNOW THIS. Seniors with dementia are easy pickings. It is up to you to protect your dad!
If they only got $300 off of him....that was pretty minor and you are lucky. Most scammers try to get thousands of dollars.
13
People need to know that the IRS does not call. They send out a letter. If a person is not certain that the contact is legitimate they ought to contact the IRS by phone using the 800 number on the proper website or on their IRS income tax return information packet.
65
Thank you, that is correct. The IRS or any government agency, will NEVER EVER EVER call you like that. They will ALWAYS use the US mail, on official letterhead.
This is also true for any "prizes" you may have won. If you ever win a real prize, even a minor one -- they will contact you BY MAIL. Not on the phone.
A real prize from a legit company will NEVER EVER EVER require you to buy anything, spend any more money, or give out ANY personal information -- on the phone or elsewhere. They will MAIL you any checks or prizes, after determining your mailing address is correct -- the whole thing will be conducted BY THE US MAIL.
One interesting thing to note: while not perfect, scams by US MAIL can be prosecuted under the stiffest of laws by the office of the Postmaster General. So this is much rarer than scams from the internet or phone calls, which are policed much more lightly (the internet, not at all -- it is a virtual SEWER).
This is also true for any "prizes" you may have won. If you ever win a real prize, even a minor one -- they will contact you BY MAIL. Not on the phone.
A real prize from a legit company will NEVER EVER EVER require you to buy anything, spend any more money, or give out ANY personal information -- on the phone or elsewhere. They will MAIL you any checks or prizes, after determining your mailing address is correct -- the whole thing will be conducted BY THE US MAIL.
One interesting thing to note: while not perfect, scams by US MAIL can be prosecuted under the stiffest of laws by the office of the Postmaster General. So this is much rarer than scams from the internet or phone calls, which are policed much more lightly (the internet, not at all -- it is a virtual SEWER).
5
An almost identical 'scam' has been operating in Australia for the last few years, with people (with asian or indo-asian accents) claiming to be from the tax office trying to frighten their victims with threats of prosecution. A related fraud involves threats regarding summary offences or unpaid fines, with the caller claiming to be from a police agency. The calls are tailored to local practices and involve a reasonable amount of on-ground research, suggesting some organisational sophistication. The local operations often use wire-transfers to shuffle and hide the money.
A reversal of the tax threat scam is to state that the victim is due a tax refund and ask for bank details to make payment. With similar results.
I suspect some variation of this is being aimed at all western countries with suitably complex bureaucracies.
A reversal of the tax threat scam is to state that the victim is due a tax refund and ask for bank details to make payment. With similar results.
I suspect some variation of this is being aimed at all western countries with suitably complex bureaucracies.
42
And also: English speaking countries. It may be lesser in Europe, because Indians do not all know French or German or Swedish. But nearly every educated Indian knows how to speak English -- remember, they were once a British colony! English is taught and spoken EVERYWHERE in India. I have very rarely met an Indian in the US, whether immigrant or tourist, who does not speak very good English (albeit with an accent).
So they target ENGLISH SPEAKING COUNTRIES, like the US, Canada and Australia.
So they target ENGLISH SPEAKING COUNTRIES, like the US, Canada and Australia.
5
CC, you must be joking about "accents." Dell took big grief for using Hindi-accented "help desk" staff -- it was joke on SNL.
They don't understand American-English quirks and slang, like "Yo!" and "yo momma."
They don't understand American-English quirks and slang, like "Yo!" and "yo momma."
If you have a land line, get Caller ID and voice mail. When the phone rings, don't answer it if you don't recognize the caller.
60
The scammers all use software to spoof their caller IDs. I received several of those calls, and every one of them had a fake caller ID.
In fact, all scammers, whether in India or the US, whether pitching the IRS scam or anything else, spoof their caller IDs.
From my research, you need to have them call an 800 or other toll-free number to defeat the spoofing software.
In fact, all scammers, whether in India or the US, whether pitching the IRS scam or anything else, spoof their caller IDs.
From my research, you need to have them call an 800 or other toll-free number to defeat the spoofing software.
2
If you happen to answer, be rude. They will only play you if they think they can.
6
Don't answer your cel either.
1
An entire article about a $100M scam and two dudes. Not a word about the kingpin of the racket.
296
Probably another business associate of the president elect. People are talking, but we can't be sure until we see his tax returns. Maybe it's nothing, but you never know.
7
Hey, Trump is NOT in the telecom business.
It was a pleasure, correcting your fake-ness.
It was a pleasure, correcting your fake-ness.
3
To say that 'India had no reputation as a large-scale exporter of fraud in the past'
is highly misleading and incorrect.
is highly misleading and incorrect.
119
My list of blocked numbers in my iPhone grows daily thanks to these types of scam calls. However, every once in a while, I choose to answer the call, listen to the first moment or two of their pitch, and then I hang up. Immediately after that, I call them back (with my own number disguised), hang up, call back again, hang up, call back again, hang up - you get the picture. Of course I only do this if I am some place with nothing else to do - like sitting in my car as I fill the car with gas, or sitting in the doctor's office lobby.
One time, with one of these IRS Treasury calls, I was particularly incensed, knowing that these scammers were going to victimize more gullible people. So I called them back, and lectured the guy who answered. He hung up. So I called back again - and lucky me, the same guy answered the phone. Again, another lecture, and I worked to shame him as much as I could. He hung up. Yeah, I called again - and, again, the same guy. This time I pointed out to him the sad futility of his life, pointing out how he clearly had some basic skills - good enunciation, good tone of voice - and how he could be working a legitimate job if he wanted to, yet he was pursuing life as a scam artist. He broke down crying, saying he had to pay his bills - but he got no sympathy from me. That brought to an end my interaction with these IRS Treasury scam calls and only this article brought it all to my mind again. The last thing these two guys deserve are US visas.
One time, with one of these IRS Treasury calls, I was particularly incensed, knowing that these scammers were going to victimize more gullible people. So I called them back, and lectured the guy who answered. He hung up. So I called back again - and lucky me, the same guy answered the phone. Again, another lecture, and I worked to shame him as much as I could. He hung up. Yeah, I called again - and, again, the same guy. This time I pointed out to him the sad futility of his life, pointing out how he clearly had some basic skills - good enunciation, good tone of voice - and how he could be working a legitimate job if he wanted to, yet he was pursuing life as a scam artist. He broke down crying, saying he had to pay his bills - but he got no sympathy from me. That brought to an end my interaction with these IRS Treasury scam calls and only this article brought it all to my mind again. The last thing these two guys deserve are US visas.
216
Yes, but think - once they're here they too will begin receiving these scam calls. Karma's a bi***.
5
I do not support those who make these criminal calls. And if I or someone I know lost money to them, I suspect I would be very angry.
On the other hand... I have certainly known people who didn't have the money to pay their bills.
It is possible to be angry at the behavior, and compassionate toward the person.
On the other hand... I have certainly known people who didn't have the money to pay their bills.
It is possible to be angry at the behavior, and compassionate toward the person.
While making one scammer in India cry may seem satisfying, it's utterly futile and a waste of time. There are 1.2 billion more where he came from.
It's truly shocking that these two whistle-blowers, who's helped untold thousands of Americans at great personal risk, haven't already been offered visas.
21
Why? We didn't give visas to translators who helped us in the Middle East, at great peril. We only give visas to wealthy people from China and Russia who are willing to pay $500K for condos.
51
They have no morals; we don't want them.
6
Why should they be? India is a growing democracy and they have education and skills and know English. India needs them, as honest and decent skilled workers for the future!
EVERYONE cannot come to the US; it is not a reward for being nice or honest and the boys are not in any danger. India is a peaceful, free democratic state. They also have families in India that are probably large and very close knit.
EVERYONE cannot come to the US; it is not a reward for being nice or honest and the boys are not in any danger. India is a peaceful, free democratic state. They also have families in India that are probably large and very close knit.
4
WOW, it seems that most commenters really have no clue as to how the modern world works. The "telephone" company has no power in this. Bringing the call center back to the states will not stop this. Being smart stops this. They hope for getting a greedy American on the phone who will chance anything that sounds too good.
61
"They hope for getting a greedy American on the phone who will chance anything that sounds too good. "
I don't get it, these don't sound good at all. They threaten you with impossible lawsuits/jail over nonexistent debt. I think you opened up a canned tirade in the wrong area.
I don't get it, these don't sound good at all. They threaten you with impossible lawsuits/jail over nonexistent debt. I think you opened up a canned tirade in the wrong area.
9
Many scams depend on greed, but these depend on threats. To people gullible enough to think the President is a Muslim coming to take their guns and a pizzeria is a clandestine pedophilia haven for Democrats, threats from the IRS demanding money on iTunes cards must seem reasonable.
37
Being smart and on this thread does not stop this. Being smart and reading this story or any number of stories elsewhere that have flagged this scam does not stop this, as the scammers depend only on finding a handful of vulnerable marks.
Observer is right in that the telephone company has no power in this. Neither, it appears here, does the government, since at least 70 percent of calls to my land line are violations of its Do-Not-Call law, and easily half of those are violations of some other law as well.
Until reading this story, I thought the only entities capable of enforcing both Do-Not-Call and fraud laws were the banks and credit card companies. Indeed, "the bank lady tried to stop" Ms. Desai. But the financial sector, maybe in exchange for the next loosening of regulations, could head things off even earlier with the electronic equivalent of an exploding dye pack that would expose the crooks when they try to collect.
Who else could conceivably step in? Apple, evidently, since one of their products has acquired an off-label use as currency. Perhaps while making phones in China, Apple could show some patriotism and help out Americans with an iTunes honey pot (even as it hides out from the real IRS in Ireland).
Observer is right in that the telephone company has no power in this. Neither, it appears here, does the government, since at least 70 percent of calls to my land line are violations of its Do-Not-Call law, and easily half of those are violations of some other law as well.
Until reading this story, I thought the only entities capable of enforcing both Do-Not-Call and fraud laws were the banks and credit card companies. Indeed, "the bank lady tried to stop" Ms. Desai. But the financial sector, maybe in exchange for the next loosening of regulations, could head things off even earlier with the electronic equivalent of an exploding dye pack that would expose the crooks when they try to collect.
Who else could conceivably step in? Apple, evidently, since one of their products has acquired an off-label use as currency. Perhaps while making phones in China, Apple could show some patriotism and help out Americans with an iTunes honey pot (even as it hides out from the real IRS in Ireland).
1
Shouldn't the criminals in this story be extradited to the US for prosecution? If they believe we are fearful of government here, let us show them why we are that way.
33
Except that you needn't be, unless you've done something illegal. Arbitrary government harassment of citizens is far more prevalent in many other, authoritarian, countries. We have it pretty good in the US, by comparison. Perhaps Indians, and others, are reading their fill of right-wing media and other electioneering provocations in order to form the erroneous impression of a government run amok - something that is actually far from reality.
2
Extradited to the US? Talk about rewarding bad behavior.
1
JSB reply to your comment -
"We have it pretty good in the US, by comparison. Perhaps Indians, and others, are reading their fill of right-wing media and other electioneering provocations in order to form the erroneous impression of a government run amok - something that is actually far from reality."
correction: We HAD it pretty good in the US - until Trump -
"erroneous impression of a government run amok?
electioneering provocations?
something that is actually far from reality?
NOT far from reality - in fact 4 yrs of Trump will BE OUR REALITY..
"We have it pretty good in the US, by comparison. Perhaps Indians, and others, are reading their fill of right-wing media and other electioneering provocations in order to form the erroneous impression of a government run amok - something that is actually far from reality."
correction: We HAD it pretty good in the US - until Trump -
"erroneous impression of a government run amok?
electioneering provocations?
something that is actually far from reality?
NOT far from reality - in fact 4 yrs of Trump will BE OUR REALITY..
As my cell phone provider, Verizon, does have the ability to block the robocalls, and yet they don't. Why? Are they profiting from the massive robo-call volumes??
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Yes.
8
It's not a robocall.
2
The call centers have sophisticated technology that allows them to "pick" a new telephone number for every outbound call.
So the carriers can't block the numbers because there's a new # for every call.
So the carriers can't block the numbers because there's a new # for every call.
1
Americans are very easily led. Just look at the last election. Same thing.
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I thought more people voted for Hillary.
18
A bigger scam just happened which pales the one reported, i.e. the recent election.
3
"Americans are very easily led."
Correction: Americans have been very badly led, since 1980, and are now very, very desperate.
These are the conditions that can lead to political disaster.
Correction: Americans have been very badly led, since 1980, and are now very, very desperate.
These are the conditions that can lead to political disaster.
12
An interim solution to this problem is for Americans to hang up immediately upon hearing an Indian-accented voice on the line pitching anything at all or making any sort of demand. That would make it tough on whatever few legitimate businesses there may be using Indians to make outbound calls however that's just too bad for them; India needs to clean up its collective act. It's gotten to the point where just about the only Indians I'm willing to talk to are those in tech support to whom I've been transferred by front-end personnel at legitimate businesses such as Verizon.
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"An interim solution to this problem is for Americans to hang up immediately upon hearing an Indian-accented voice on the line..."
That's what I do, and what everyone I've talked to about this does (except for the ones who should obscenities first).
I don't know anyone who will listen to an Indian who calls them on the phone.
That's what I do, and what everyone I've talked to about this does (except for the ones who should obscenities first).
I don't know anyone who will listen to an Indian who calls them on the phone.
3
If I don't recognize the number on my caller ID I don't answer. If we would all do this, they would stop. But they prey on, as the story said, newly arrived immigrants who do not understand that the IRS will never ever call you to resolve a problem. The IRS only contacts people by mail.
4
I don't answer any phone call unless I recognize the number. If someone really wants to get ahold of me they will, otherwise the scammers and cold-callers can try their luck elsewhere.
4
Our phone companies have to take some responsibility for allowing scammers, spammers, etc. from accessing people. If privacy is a right, we need some help.
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Agreed. At this point, with the ubiquity of cell phones, it should be no problem for phone companies to identify the originating numbers that produce these calls, using similar technology to your e-mail provider's spam blocker, and send you a text message as the phone rings saying "Suspect Call" or something similar.
12
Our phone carrier does offer a service that screens calls. The incoming numbers deemed as scammers ring once and then stop. I'd prefer zero rings, but at least this is a start. Between the Indian IRS scams and the credit card interest scams, I was getting 10 to 12 nuisance calls per day.
3
Actually, phone companies have tried and even have groups trying to figure out what to do. Problem is that the scammers hack legitimate numbers - for example, once a week my phone rings with my number as the caller ID!
1
One comment only
Bring these jobs home
End of problem
Bring these jobs home
End of problem
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You want American-based scammers?
76
Eh, how exactly would that stop this? Everyone will hang up on anyone with a slight accent?
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At least we wouldn't have to worry about extradition problems.
5
So these whistleblowers went first to the IRS, who laughed at them and then had to harass the FTC to get anything done about a massive extortion racket.
This is the same US government that purports that Edward Snowden should have used proper reporting channels before exposing the criminal actions of the NSA to Greenwald and Poitras and which now will not grant him a pardon.
This is the same US government that purports that Edward Snowden should have used proper reporting channels before exposing the criminal actions of the NSA to Greenwald and Poitras and which now will not grant him a pardon.
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@CI - That's completely irrelevant. The article is about scamming operation call centers in India.
1
It's also about the US government's incompetent, ignorant response to multiple warnings from whistleblowers.
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Wrong. Traitor Snowden gave the Communists in Russia and China, top-secret CIA documents --
https://www.rt.com/usa/snowden-leak-black-budget-176/
Traitor Snowden is lucky, there is no death penalty anymore for treason, only mandatory life.
https://www.rt.com/usa/snowden-leak-black-budget-176/
Traitor Snowden is lucky, there is no death penalty anymore for treason, only mandatory life.
1
Why didn't Ms. Broder act faster? Why isn't her agency, the local police or other enforcement entity keeping Dubey and Poojary on a generous retainer to weed out the many other scams that they have first access to? For a relative pittance they could lead authorities to, and/or infiltrate enough operations to save many millions of dollars. Significant ink was wasted here to assure us of the pecking order, and that the turf wars between agencies takes precedence over completing their missions.
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You need to understand how India works, which is by bribes. Bribes make crimes go away, or allow them to continue. The level of corruption is beyond an American's comprehension.
21
Notice how the Privates end up in the stockade while the Generals go free? It's the same all over.
2
@The Poet McTeagle: I also want to add, that where the young men say "Americans fear their government but Indians do not" is being misinterpreted -- by readers and perhaps deliberately by the author here.
Indians do not "fear" their government, because it is 100% corrupt. You can bribe your way out of nearly any crime, or to get special favors. The Indian people hold their government in UTTER CONTEMPT. It is not because they RESPECT the government; it is because the government is a pathetic useless sham there.
Indians do not "fear" their government, because it is 100% corrupt. You can bribe your way out of nearly any crime, or to get special favors. The Indian people hold their government in UTTER CONTEMPT. It is not because they RESPECT the government; it is because the government is a pathetic useless sham there.
4
Every week I get two or three early morning scam calls from India and I am sick of them. I get either the IRS scam or the Microsoft computer virus scam. They have given me very negative feelings toward India.
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So you have negative feelings about a country in which few people tried to scam you over phone? I wonder do you also have negative feelings about Americans because some of them tried to scam you? Or if people of a particular race or religion tried to scam you, you have negative feelings towards that race or nationality/religion?
11
Why doesn't the Indian government stop these scams?
2
Mitra, not a few Indian scammers. Just watch scam-baiters' youtube videos. There are hundreds of fake call centers in Delhi, Kolkata, Noida, Gurgaon, Jaipur, Hyderabad and other cities. I personally have compiled about two hundred fake tech support centers and have their website URLs.
8
That is sad but true. We don't have confidence that the State will believe us. We are afraid that we will suffer even if we have not done anything wrong.
I am not condoning the scammers. They, like most scammers, prey on the weak.
The elderly and immigrants.
May be next time a drone strike on the 7 story building Mr. President ?