Any suggestion of this when Obama won would be labeled racist. What do we call it now?
17
as we see it from the outside off usa. Mr Donald Trump has WON. your media is corrupt like trump says and so is it in eu to. and now it all shifts for the better. now we are really getting engaged! I think we need peace now ppl dont u???
10
What difference at this point does it make?
11
Look at the trouble this nation got into under W, a president without the confidence of the people. The future looks bleak? Da, nyet?
10
Yes--recount!
14
Picture tells a thousand words.
6
If the lack of a paper trail opens up the possibility of rigging, here's we need to do *by 2020*: "States still using paperless voting machines should replace them with optical scan systems" (Halderman).
15
Can't the people get a recount, regardless of what the candidate says?
23
It is simply criminal to dismiss the votes of over 2 million people! Their votes don't count?! That's outrageous . We are the only country in the world to moronically not have the citizens vote in their president. This is not a democracy. . It's a travesty and Trump did NOT. Win, ergo Clinton is the rightful president. Seriously- how do you dismiss 2 MILLION PEOPLE as not counting??! I thought we outlawed the equally gross vote where a black persons vote was worth 3/5 of a white . Because that's exactly what's happening here!
28
Why on Earth would the HRC campaign NOT demand a recount? Did they make a deal with the Devil? Trump doesn't go after Hillary and the Clinton Foundation so she goes away quietly? Got to wonder.
12
As Stein's fundraising campaign to harness this sentiment and push for an honest assessment of a fishy election is nearing $4.5 million in under two days, a few paragraphs of borrowed coverage from Reuters is the best NYT can do? http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2016/11/24/us/politics/24reuters-usa-elec...
Get it together and cover this amazing story, NYT! Clinton isn't the only non-Drumpf voice to be heard across the American landscape. Get to work! Even President-Elect Von Clownstick is working on Thanksgiving!
Get it together and cover this amazing story, NYT! Clinton isn't the only non-Drumpf voice to be heard across the American landscape. Get to work! Even President-Elect Von Clownstick is working on Thanksgiving!
34
From the third debate on the topic of election-rigging,
Clinton: This is a mind-set. This is how Donald thinks, and it's funny, but it's also really troubling. That is not the way our democracy works. We've been around for 240 years. We've had free and fair elections. We've accepted the outcomes when we may not have liked them, and that is what must be expected of anyone standing on a debate stage during a general election. You know, President Obama said the other day when you're whining before the game is even finished--(Applause)
Wallace: Hold on, folks.
Clinton:--It just shows you're not up to doing the job. And let's be clear about what he's saying and what that means. He's denigrating, he is talking down our democracy. And I, for one, am appalled that somebody who is the nominee of one of our two major parties would take that kind of position."
Clinton: This is a mind-set. This is how Donald thinks, and it's funny, but it's also really troubling. That is not the way our democracy works. We've been around for 240 years. We've had free and fair elections. We've accepted the outcomes when we may not have liked them, and that is what must be expected of anyone standing on a debate stage during a general election. You know, President Obama said the other day when you're whining before the game is even finished--(Applause)
Wallace: Hold on, folks.
Clinton:--It just shows you're not up to doing the job. And let's be clear about what he's saying and what that means. He's denigrating, he is talking down our democracy. And I, for one, am appalled that somebody who is the nominee of one of our two major parties would take that kind of position."
12
Let's be clear. Hillary is not challenging anything. Jill Stein is running around seeking a recount and calling foul. Well, Jill Stein, perhaps you should have bowed out and supported Hillary when it mattered and then we would't be faced with a Trump Presidency! In each of thees states in question the spread would be more than made up for by NOT having Stein on the ballot. So let's all send Jill Stein a thank you note when things get truly terrible under Trump.
29
As a liberal, I didn't think I could be angrier or more frustrated with the DNC. Then they decide to just give up and quit on the American public who overwhelmingly voted for Clinton.
Do you know why you/we lost everything 2 weeks ago? Because Trump knew he could bully us around and it turns out he was right.
How embarrassing. For all of us.
Do you know why you/we lost everything 2 weeks ago? Because Trump knew he could bully us around and it turns out he was right.
How embarrassing. For all of us.
27
"...Pennsylvania allows individual voters to petition for a recount, but the deadline was Sunday..."
Not a single Pennsylvania voter bothered to petition for a recount?
Not a single Pennsylvania voter bothered to petition for a recount?
8
OK - Then let's recount Hillary's many nano-close races with Bernie.
12
As an absentee voter in the state of Wisconsin, I had a very unusual voting experience during this election. I have been living abroad and participating in absentee voting since I moved to Germany in 2007 and this year the validity of one of the entries on my ballot (the witness' information) was called into question. I followed the exact same procedure as I had in previous elections.
The witness must be an American citizen and must give their address and sign the form. The form does not require proof of citizenship, the name of the witness, or an address in the US. Living abroad, my witness, who is an American citizen just like me, usually also has an address abroad.
I I ' .
. I I , , a ""
I am in favor of a recount in Wisconsin and hope you are too.
The witness must be an American citizen and must give their address and sign the form. The form does not require proof of citizenship, the name of the witness, or an address in the US. Living abroad, my witness, who is an American citizen just like me, usually also has an address abroad.
I I ' .
. I I , , a ""
I am in favor of a recount in Wisconsin and hope you are too.
30
Fellow Patriots: The initial recount fees of nearly $5,000.000.00 dollars have already been raised, within 24 hours, by a "never-say-die" Presidential candidate, Jill Stein, of the Green Party, and MoveOn.Org . It's being done to prove, one way or another, whether this election was/is legitimate . Every real American should support the effort be it pennies or dollars . On your computers look up "Audit the Vote", MoveOn.Org or Green Party Vote Recount, etc. and keep your fingers crossed . And for heaven's sake don't pay attention to any loser source that says: - "Ohh, it's just too hard to do a recount ."
20
Perhaps Donald should reconsider not going after Crooked Hillary if Hillary pushes for a recount.
5
No suprise here. He said the election was rigged.
21
Recount! We deserve to know. The republicans work hard to limit voter turn out. Let's fight it every way we can!
29
After all, when speaking of making an arms control deal with the USSR the great Ronald Reagan (comparatively speaking) said it best: Trust but verify!
15
Do the recount. Do it.
22
Some of us are clinging to the hope that there is light at the end of the tunnel. Sadly, that tunnel seems to be 4 very long years. Let's just hope that racism will not prevail and that we will be left somehow stable. All I can say is YIKES!
3
Anything to keep that piece of filth and his criminal band out of the White House works for me!
24
No matter the result this will be a government detested and not respected by many Americans..many will see the president on tv and laugh and turn the station..will feel a call from the president to be a thing avoided, and bestill on him no honor and see in him no virtue..nothing will undo that...and when the rabble that supported him turn on him (they will) he will have no love at all..the most hated president in our history
11
Is this really all about California? Clinton leads by 4 million there and trails by 2 million in the rest of the country.
7
Recount! At least we can say we tried even if Adolf H. Trump still goes to the White House.
15
Hey, Left Coasters (that includes California -- the US is unique in having two Left coasts), you are asking for recalls in states you dismissively refer to as "flyover states" -- just impediments between the two halves of the Real USA. Well, they heard you and Ms. Clinton before she recast herself as their champion -- she never was, never would be -- and stuck it to you, but good.
Now those of us in flyover states who didn't want The Donald in the bully pulpit have to live for the next four years under his leadership. Thanks a lot. Keep it up and we'll have him for eight years.
Now those of us in flyover states who didn't want The Donald in the bully pulpit have to live for the next four years under his leadership. Thanks a lot. Keep it up and we'll have him for eight years.
9
“We have three major voter suppression operations under way”
Yet neither Trump’s campaign nor the RNC has prioritized registering and mobilizing the 47 million eligible white voters without college degrees who are Trump’s most obvious source of new votes, as FiveThirtyEight analyst David Wasserman noted.
To compensate for this, Trump’s campaign has devised another strategy, which, not surprisingly, is negative. Instead of expanding the electorate, Bannon and his team are trying to shrink it. “We have three major voter suppression operations under way,” says a senior official. They’re aimed at three groups Clinton needs to win overwhelmingly: idealistic white liberals, young women, and African Americans.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-10-27/inside-the-trump-bunke...
Yet neither Trump’s campaign nor the RNC has prioritized registering and mobilizing the 47 million eligible white voters without college degrees who are Trump’s most obvious source of new votes, as FiveThirtyEight analyst David Wasserman noted.
To compensate for this, Trump’s campaign has devised another strategy, which, not surprisingly, is negative. Instead of expanding the electorate, Bannon and his team are trying to shrink it. “We have three major voter suppression operations under way,” says a senior official. They’re aimed at three groups Clinton needs to win overwhelmingly: idealistic white liberals, young women, and African Americans.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-10-27/inside-the-trump-bunke...
9
Recount FL and OH!
13
This is desperation.
12
Why didn't they demand the recount in primary that she stole the votes from Sanders?
11
Until Hillary publicly asks for a recount, this is just idle speculation.
7
Not surprised with this latest fiasco: The Democrats are demoralized with the outcome of the presidential election. HRC did not win the election - even with the Democratic National Committee's Donna Brazile, passing the "death-penalty question" to Clinton's camp before a primary debate with Bernie Sanders, and which the DNC leader followed up with 'again passing debate questions' to HRC for her presidential debate challenge. What about the Oct 17, 2016 report of the DNC goal of “bird-dogging”: to create a sense of 'anarchy' around President-elect Donald Trump's campaign stops? The DNC videos of sabotaging the opposition was not enough for the Clinton campaign and NOW - the Democratic National Committee are still agitating to ease back into the White House: POTUS still doesn't have a job, HRC had planned her celebration party and hasn't stopped whining . . . now the motley group want to do what ever it takes to reverse the outcome. They simply don't want to give up their power. Since when did the U.S. become a 3rd world country of political rebellion? We know the NYT reporters are far, far left, but why continue the nonsense. The suggestion of choosing states for a recount of ballots is pathetic. Imagine President -elect refused to start choosing individuals for transition - but, HRC had a huge-huge party already arranged for her win: It is called arrogance; Get over it Hillary - you lost.
11
You heard it here first: The recount results will knock your socks off!
6
Please, New York Times, you need to set the record straight! You have omitted the fact that Jill Stein - the Green Party presidential candidate - has requested a recount in these 3 swing states. She has already quickly raised more than $4.5 million to finance the recount and should easily reach the $7.5 million needed to fully finance this important effort.
As a NYT digital subscriber - I fully noted your virtually non-existent coverage of Ms. Stein during the campaign, and your continued "blacklist" of her intelligent positions! All I can say is "shame on you"!
As a NYT digital subscriber - I fully noted your virtually non-existent coverage of Ms. Stein during the campaign, and your continued "blacklist" of her intelligent positions! All I can say is "shame on you"!
11
Why not find out? Why not recount? Besides hacking or malware, there are other means to "bump" one candidate's turnout in small districts. If there was ever an election in which close mattered... this is it! What happens if Democrats walk past this opportunity to only find out years later there was tampering and the outcome would/could have been different? Does anyone want to take that chance considering what could be ahead for the next four years?
19
Do the recount. Anything is better than Trump!
9
This is big. Even the NYT isn't holding back the flood of opinions on this issue. And we'll they shouldn't.
4
roll up that tent already. she isn't wanted.
14
Well, gee, New York Times. I must say that the New York Times picks are completely unrepresentative of the comments as a whole. Why is that?
5
perhaps Hillary Clinton needs to be brought before a grand jury before vote recounts are initiated - the wiki leaks emails showed us just how corrupt the Clinton campaign was from the primaries (adios Bernie) to the scheming and collusion (lap dog Clinton media / answers to the exam anyone?). Never mind going from 'broke' to being worth 250 million dollars, all the while just a poorly paid public official. The sad shameful part is 62 million voters agreed that being criminally negligent, scheming, disparaging minorities, fear mongering, race baiting, cheating and collusion is quite okay - shame on you Clinton minions. By the way, Clinton supporters, do you know why there are hundreds of thousands of refugees looking for a new home????
10
If certain people and interests want a recount in certain states, then lets have a recount of those states with illegal aliens who would be able to register and vote with, lets say a SS#, like NY. So you buy a stolen SS#, register and with a little help from your friends in the cities, vote illegally.
Stop the stupidity. DT won fair and square. And anything else is sour grapes and more fodder that the current bunch of complainers and #notmypresident types have no clue what average people outside of the echo chambers of the coasts are going through.
Just stop it. You are diminishing yourselves in everyone's eyes. Move on and regroup WITH A BETTER PLAN, ISSUES and CANDIDATE that addresses the needs of more people and without the identity divisive politics prioritizing illegals over citizens, multinational corporations over Americans and their jobs, and stop the collusion with Big Media.
Without that understanding Hillary Clinton supporters, and the Democratic party, will be as clueless as the Republican party was before DT destroyed it to reform it into a new, more populist party.
Stop the stupidity. DT won fair and square. And anything else is sour grapes and more fodder that the current bunch of complainers and #notmypresident types have no clue what average people outside of the echo chambers of the coasts are going through.
Just stop it. You are diminishing yourselves in everyone's eyes. Move on and regroup WITH A BETTER PLAN, ISSUES and CANDIDATE that addresses the needs of more people and without the identity divisive politics prioritizing illegals over citizens, multinational corporations over Americans and their jobs, and stop the collusion with Big Media.
Without that understanding Hillary Clinton supporters, and the Democratic party, will be as clueless as the Republican party was before DT destroyed it to reform it into a new, more populist party.
11
I'm astonished this recount movement took so long. With so much known hacking going on during the campaign, and the startling switch between polls and voting results, within just a few hours on election night, then add in the popular vote going to the "loser" by a wide margin, how did this recount movement not happen sooner? And the rich irony, of Donald Trump, screaming "rigged!" throughout the campaign, now suddenly silent! You couldn't make this up. Recount! Now!
10
J. Alex Halderman
Professor of Computer Science, University of Michigan
"Want to Know if the Election was Hacked? Look at the Ballots
You may have read at NYMag that I’ve been in discussions with the Clinton campaign about whether it might wish to seek recounts in critical states. That article, which includes somebody else’s description of my views, incorrectly describes the reasons manually checking ballots is an essential security safeguard (and includes some incorrect numbers, to boot). Let me set the record straight about what I and other leading election security experts have actually been saying to the campaign and everyone else who’s willing to listen."
The REPORT should be concerning to all people not just HRC supporters. Sadly, in my humble opinion, the NYMag article really did not accurately convey the significance of the report's findings.
Professor of Computer Science, University of Michigan
"Want to Know if the Election was Hacked? Look at the Ballots
You may have read at NYMag that I’ve been in discussions with the Clinton campaign about whether it might wish to seek recounts in critical states. That article, which includes somebody else’s description of my views, incorrectly describes the reasons manually checking ballots is an essential security safeguard (and includes some incorrect numbers, to boot). Let me set the record straight about what I and other leading election security experts have actually been saying to the campaign and everyone else who’s willing to listen."
The REPORT should be concerning to all people not just HRC supporters. Sadly, in my humble opinion, the NYMag article really did not accurately convey the significance of the report's findings.
6
A commenter opined: "My dog could have beaten Trump."
Not quite true. Certain breeds, yes -- Golden Retrievers, for example. But not all breeds -- Trump probably could have beat some of the yippy ones.
The fact remains that SOME breeds of dog could have beat Donald J. Trump -- but Hillary Clinton didn't.
Does that mean voters prefer Golden Retrievers to Hillary Clinton? You decide.
Not quite true. Certain breeds, yes -- Golden Retrievers, for example. But not all breeds -- Trump probably could have beat some of the yippy ones.
The fact remains that SOME breeds of dog could have beat Donald J. Trump -- but Hillary Clinton didn't.
Does that mean voters prefer Golden Retrievers to Hillary Clinton? You decide.
4
Wake up, Hillary.
2020 just isn't on your horizon.
Get the lead out and let's get (re)counting!!
You owe it to everyone who contributed their blood sweat and tear$ to this country !!
2020 just isn't on your horizon.
Get the lead out and let's get (re)counting!!
You owe it to everyone who contributed their blood sweat and tear$ to this country !!
6
It's amazing, but not surprising, to see the NYT ignore the incredibly response to the Green Party campaign for a vote recount. Go search on google to see how just about every other news source has picked up that Jill Stein has raised $4.4 million in less than 36 hours to do this. All that fits is news to print, I guess.
6
It is imperative to be accurate on the vote count, since the difference is
so small in Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania...total count...
This is not just for the Democratic Party or the Republican Party but for
our election system...we cannot afford to be passive about a possible
hacked election system...
The entire nation should find out what the exact electoral count is based
on every single vote cast.
so small in Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania...total count...
This is not just for the Democratic Party or the Republican Party but for
our election system...we cannot afford to be passive about a possible
hacked election system...
The entire nation should find out what the exact electoral count is based
on every single vote cast.
15
It's about time. Recount those three battleground states NOW.
9
Recount? Heck, I'd be happy with an audit.
3
Respectfully to NYT: You do realize you and KellyAnne Conway are using the same image, right?
Time to shift focus. Jill Stein has now raised $4.5 million toward a recount.
Time to shift focus. Jill Stein has now raised $4.5 million toward a recount.
6
More "Rigged Election Gibberish". Progressive thinker George Takei has shown the elections were not rigged.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/george-takei-donald-trump-rigged-ele...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/george-takei-donald-trump-rigged-ele...
1
Get up off the mat Secretary Clinton, time to fight.
8
It's all California, folks.
5
What is wrong with these Cable/TV Commenters trying to stop the fight for: 2016's Election Recount. Democrats know how to stand up & fight for our rights. Surprised? MEDIA especially MORNING JOE, who continues to give Trump free media, jump on the band wagon, and demand a recount 'NOW".
REASONABLE SUSPICION, sure! To HAVE EVIDENCE of hacking or malfeasance THERE MUST BE AN INVESTIGATION FIRST not the other way around. DON'T BE FOOLED. Trump asserted, not conceding if losing and declaring he'd challenge the election results if he lost! President Obama asserted, In that event if there was enough discrepancy in the vote count he'd have an investigation initiated. WHERE IS PRESIDENT OBAMA AND WHERE IS THIS INVESTIGATION !!!
There hasn't been Presidential popular voting this wide since African Americans gained the right to vote over one hundred and forty (140) years ago. Let the investigation begin. There is enough reasonable double.
Finally, of course I'm like most American's in wanting a peaceful transfer of power but what does that mean when we may not have a legitimate one. I could go on and on about why not; just look at all the hacks of the DNC, Wikileaks, Russia'/Trump's election & personal relationship. But that's for another time. We need to ensure the true & right President-Elect is taking the oath of Office in January. Those who agree with me, please leave a comment a comment on facebook, sign a petition for a recount or if you can donate.
REASONABLE SUSPICION, sure! To HAVE EVIDENCE of hacking or malfeasance THERE MUST BE AN INVESTIGATION FIRST not the other way around. DON'T BE FOOLED. Trump asserted, not conceding if losing and declaring he'd challenge the election results if he lost! President Obama asserted, In that event if there was enough discrepancy in the vote count he'd have an investigation initiated. WHERE IS PRESIDENT OBAMA AND WHERE IS THIS INVESTIGATION !!!
There hasn't been Presidential popular voting this wide since African Americans gained the right to vote over one hundred and forty (140) years ago. Let the investigation begin. There is enough reasonable double.
Finally, of course I'm like most American's in wanting a peaceful transfer of power but what does that mean when we may not have a legitimate one. I could go on and on about why not; just look at all the hacks of the DNC, Wikileaks, Russia'/Trump's election & personal relationship. But that's for another time. We need to ensure the true & right President-Elect is taking the oath of Office in January. Those who agree with me, please leave a comment a comment on facebook, sign a petition for a recount or if you can donate.
8
As a Hillary supporter, I owe to her and our nation- I just donated $500 to the Jill Stein fund for the recount! Do it now.
11
I just made a donation to the jill stein.nationbuilder.com website to pay for a recount. We must ensure we have a democracy.
5
We know it was rigged. Trump told us that. Mr. Honest Joe himself.
The 'peoples' choice. God help us.
The 'peoples' choice. God help us.
6
According to every poll, conducted both before and during (exit polls) the election, Donald Trump wasn't likely to win ANY of the three states in question here... The fact that he "won" all three by razor thin margins with statistical anomalies is incredibly suspicious, to say the least.
Let the audits begin... And if it is shown that Donald Trump did in fact win, we'll have to live with him and his deplorable cabinet choices for a few years. If not, Americans will have dodged a bigoted liar's stink bomb and learned a very good lesson... Your vote DOES COUNT!
Let the audits begin... And if it is shown that Donald Trump did in fact win, we'll have to live with him and his deplorable cabinet choices for a few years. If not, Americans will have dodged a bigoted liar's stink bomb and learned a very good lesson... Your vote DOES COUNT!
12
The hypocrisy of a recount is simply shameless. The Democratic party and the mass media slamming Trump for "not accepting the results" is pure pretense and lying when they do it.
Why are the standards for others higher than the ones you have for yourself HRC?
Why are the standards for others higher than the ones you have for yourself HRC?
11
4
Finally this reaches the NY Times! I was beginning to think only social media had the news on this...
4
Even with a popular vote plurality (not majority), Hillary could have tried to win more than 20 states - or even 21 - out of 50, and then maybe she would be president. PLEASE STOP WHINING!
7
"A recount in Michigan, less than 11,000 out of 4.5 million, seems reasonable."
Agreed. New Hampshire was even closer. I guess we should recount New Hampshire too, eh?
Clinton supporters aren't asking for a recount in New Hampshire because they like the outcome there. Same for every other state that Clinton won. Irregularities were claimed in those states too, but I guess irregularities matter only in states that Trump won.
Time to move on. While Clinton supporters are demanding recounts (even though she's not) and making snarky remarks about Trump, Trump is holding talks with nut-cases like John Bolton. People should focus on that instead.
Agreed. New Hampshire was even closer. I guess we should recount New Hampshire too, eh?
Clinton supporters aren't asking for a recount in New Hampshire because they like the outcome there. Same for every other state that Clinton won. Irregularities were claimed in those states too, but I guess irregularities matter only in states that Trump won.
Time to move on. While Clinton supporters are demanding recounts (even though she's not) and making snarky remarks about Trump, Trump is holding talks with nut-cases like John Bolton. People should focus on that instead.
5
But wait! Now "progressives" think it's rigged? Who knew?
9
"In HRC'a own words, it's "horrifying " to think someone wouldn't accept the results of the election."
To her credit, HRC IS accepting the outcome. It's her supporters that aren't.
To her credit, HRC IS accepting the outcome. It's her supporters that aren't.
9
Thank you, Jill Stein!
I made a donation last night!
I made a donation last night!
3
Recount the primaries. Clinton is a crook.
8
There should be automatic recounts anytime an election is close. In Westchester County, NY every time there is a close election and recounts take place the count changes. Many election inspectors work long hours on election day and sometimes report wrong number to the Board of Elections. Mistakes happen. The recount will reassure the american people that the results of the election were fair. PAUL FEINER, Greenburgh Town Supervisor
5
I think it's a little politically worrisome that the NYTimes didn't mention the Green party once here. I also think it's a little worrisome that the NYTimes didn't mention the word Neo or Nazi when mentioning the alt-right. Where is the journalistic integrity?
5
Clinton camp put Jill Stein up to it.
7
The forensic study of every vote in Philadelphia and Detroit might finally show why there is so much resistance to using photo ID's....
3
I do not support this. There has to be solid evidence first, and there is none, just innuendo and 'hope'.
6
let's just get on with it shall we? Things are upsetting enough without threat of a civil war.
2
Your entire report on the subject is overshadowed by this: "still mourning Mr. Trump’s victory...". And overshadowed by your cosy elitist meeting with the President-Elect this week furthering the narrative that the Election was legitimate. Have you considered doing your OWN research into the anomalies instead of simply opining on the subject? Perhaps if you did your own research you would discover its' not "conspiracy theorists" but absolute fact that Trump consistently won by 7% in Districts that did not provide a paper receipt. In the Districts that do, he lost.
4
simply do it for posterity. You have a candidate with ties and pleas to Russia to continue hacking. Don't claim you won. Just initiate a recount to certify the results. Trump should do it to rub it in. That's right up his alley. Either way, we'd know for sure if we're stuck with this loser.
6
Once you are in the business of preventing "Those People" from voting, is it a stretch to believe they would tamper with actual votes cast?
Why only have vote recounts in WI, MI, and PA?
Why don't we have vote recounts in the states that Hillary Clinton won with low margins?
Anyone?
Why don't we have vote recounts in the states that Hillary Clinton won with low margins?
Anyone?
8
Keep it up, you will never bring Dems that voted Republican back. We aren't looking for a hysterical party.
5
To all of the Trump supporters on this web site gloating about their great victory, have your fun. Many, if not most, of you will be the first to feel the effects of your voting decisions and see the folly in your choices. This incoming group is not a group of people who are out to make this country greater; there has been no evidence that any serious policy goals or plans are set up to serve and support ordinary people and their families; just a bunch of disingenuous, un-focused rhetoric.
Hate, racism, greed and slander are not effective tools for making anything better for the middle class and poor; actually, they are un-American and certainly un-Christian values. You've been conned big time, as you will eventually see,,,..and feel.
Hate, racism, greed and slander are not effective tools for making anything better for the middle class and poor; actually, they are un-American and certainly un-Christian values. You've been conned big time, as you will eventually see,,,..and feel.
10
Dream on Losers. You lost the election stunningly and decisively. Don't let the Trump train run you over.
9
C'mon Trumpy, fund the recount. "What have you got to lose?"
2
Buzzfeed reported 4:45 am that Jill Stein had raised $2.5 million for a recount. She's now raised $3.7 million.
https://www.buzzfeed.com/claudiakoerner/jill-stein-has-raised-more-than-...
https://www.buzzfeed.com/claudiakoerner/jill-stein-has-raised-more-than-...
2
One more question to NYT,
Did Trump lie about not having contact with Russia while in fact his son was in Paris to discuss with Russia supporters about resolving the Syria situation. If he did, will NYT report it as such?
Did Trump lie about not having contact with Russia while in fact his son was in Paris to discuss with Russia supporters about resolving the Syria situation. If he did, will NYT report it as such?
3
Get rid of the antiquated, non-democratic Electoral College. Let the PEOPLE'S votes count. This election should NEVER have gone to Trump, but it's over now, and we're stuck with him for the duration. Hopefully, he will prove himself to be such a disaster that we will all be rid of him in short order.
4
The only ones rigging this election was the DNC.
11
Professor Haldeman presents ZERO evidence for his recommendation other than it is possible using some pretty far fetched assumption. This article would qualify as FAKE news if it were Trump doing the challenging.
4
Resistance is not futile. Fight the Daleks!
3
Make sure you account for the dead voters and those who are registered in two states. NPR in 2012 claims there were about 2,000,000 dead people voting; some have been voting since 2000.
4
They hacked the DNC voter base, with no one knowing. Did they manage to get enough info to explain how many white women would vote for Obama yet not vote for Clinton? You bet they did and anyone under 30 years old knows just how algorithms can be made to slip in a vote here or there. This is the same play Putin made in the Ukraine.
We have had a coup, by Russia no less!
When are we going to get up and take our country back?
This really is a fight for the future.
We have had a coup, by Russia no less!
When are we going to get up and take our country back?
This really is a fight for the future.
7
Thank you Jill Stein; go for a recount!
10
How many times did we hear Hillary supporters lecturing to the Bernie folks about "how the game is played" and how she won "fair and square". The levels of irony are mind-numbing. We now know that the primary election WAS rigged the DNC, Hillary's campaign and the mainstream media. Trump was fighting against the establishments of both parties and the media. If there was rigging in the general election - it wasn't enough!
8
The Clinton campaign obviously wants a recount and they asked Jill Stein to ask for it, because they fear that if they do and fail, Trump might investigate Hillary next year.
Jill Stein who campaigned against Hillary and who asks for recounts in states where she won 1%, shows her hand that she is too a shill for the Clintons, an extreme left meant to make HRC more desirable in the center.
Big disappointment Jill Stein! I thought you could be the next Bernie in 2010 if you ran as a Democrat, but you blew it with this. You cowed to the Clinton big pocket like Warren and Sanders.
There are essentially no true blues standing the the political left!
Jill Stein who campaigned against Hillary and who asks for recounts in states where she won 1%, shows her hand that she is too a shill for the Clintons, an extreme left meant to make HRC more desirable in the center.
Big disappointment Jill Stein! I thought you could be the next Bernie in 2010 if you ran as a Democrat, but you blew it with this. You cowed to the Clinton big pocket like Warren and Sanders.
There are essentially no true blues standing the the political left!
6
If you play three sets of tennis, win the first set 6-0, and lose the next two 6-4, 6-4 - you will have won 14 games to your opponents 12 - guess what you lose. Those are the rules.
7
First, the headline is misleading. VOTERS are calling for a recount. Some CITIZENS OF THE UNITED STATES would like to be sure the election wasn't tampered with. Second, there seems to be a great deal of confusion over accepting the results of a free and fair election and challenging a count that didn't go your way.
My memory of the answer Trump gave in the debate, is he would accept the election results if he won but if he did not win he implied the possibility his supporters would engage in some kind of armed revolt — this can sometimes be called a coup and is quite different from verifying the integrity of the vote.
Reading the comments, it seems the Trump supporters are afraid their candidate may not have actually won. Compare that to the threat of physical violence they threatened in the event Clinton won.
Real patriots support the integrity of the vote.
"It is for us the living, rather, to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us -- that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion -- that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain -- that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom -- and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth."
My memory of the answer Trump gave in the debate, is he would accept the election results if he won but if he did not win he implied the possibility his supporters would engage in some kind of armed revolt — this can sometimes be called a coup and is quite different from verifying the integrity of the vote.
Reading the comments, it seems the Trump supporters are afraid their candidate may not have actually won. Compare that to the threat of physical violence they threatened in the event Clinton won.
Real patriots support the integrity of the vote.
"It is for us the living, rather, to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us -- that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion -- that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain -- that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom -- and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth."
8
These titty babies that LOST election need to just get over it and shut up already the election results will not be changed just because you don't like the results. get over it or get out.just forget it and grow up.
7
Gore won the popular vote in 2000.
Confused Floridians mistakenly voted for Buchanan instead of Gore.
Boy George was appointed prez by the right leaning Supreme Court.
How did that work out?
Let's avoid another life changing and mind bending catastrophe while we still have time.
Recount the Votes!!!
Confused Floridians mistakenly voted for Buchanan instead of Gore.
Boy George was appointed prez by the right leaning Supreme Court.
How did that work out?
Let's avoid another life changing and mind bending catastrophe while we still have time.
Recount the Votes!!!
7
If Hillary doesn't fight...
Every women who dies from a back alley abortion, every black teenager whose life is ruined by an arrest for the crime of driving while black, every worker cheated of wages while the NLRB stands by, every one poisoned while EPA is gutted, these crimes are on the heads of those who don't fight
am I havn't even gotten to waterboarding
Every women who dies from a back alley abortion, every black teenager whose life is ruined by an arrest for the crime of driving while black, every worker cheated of wages while the NLRB stands by, every one poisoned while EPA is gutted, these crimes are on the heads of those who don't fight
am I havn't even gotten to waterboarding
5
Shoe on the other foot -- is there any doubt Trump would be doing this if he lost? Of course he would! And he wouldn't put up a nickle, he would have kept on campaigning/rabble-rousing and his supporters would have underwritten it. And even if it didn't bear fruit in the end, it would: Trump would have exploited it as further evidence of a "rigged election," enhanced coverage for his new media initiative.
2
I'm with Trump and Sessions.
Investigate the investigation. This is a crooked deal and we don't have a democracy !
Investigate the investigation. This is a crooked deal and we don't have a democracy !
I don't think this will go anywhere. Hillary already conceded the election.
2
All those calling for a recount based on comments that the system is rigged (sounds familiar) by computer scientist, statisticians, and the possibility (unproven at this point) that Russia may have influenced the election outcome would no doubt have a different position if Clinton won. Trump would be labeled everything from a sore loser to a threat to our democracy. Hillary has not called for a recount and conceded the election. it's time to accept the results you thought would never happen.
3
Why no mention that Green Party presidential candidate Jill Stein is planning to file for a recount in those three states and, as of this writing, has already raised $4.5 million to do so?
7
I find it ironic that Jill Stein is raising money for a recount when the only reason Clinton lost was because Stein ran. The number of votes Clinton lost in key states were roughly the same number that Jill won in those states. If Stein hadn't run, those votes would have gone to Clinton and she would be President-Elect right now.
3
There is no way the writers of the constitution could have imagined an election contested over suspicions of hacked electronic voting machines, nor did they likely imagine that someday a candidate would win the popular vote (which, of course, didn't really exist back then) by nearly the total population of the US at the time of the ratification of the Constitution and still not end up becoming the president.
I also doubt they anticipated the Senate would simply give up and refuse to review the President's nominees to the Supreme Court, nor that an election would be more or less arbitrarily decided by a Supreme Court decision. At some point you have to acknowledge that a 230 year old Constitution isn't really adequate to address the needs of a modern democracy and start thinking about writing a new one that is.
I also doubt they anticipated the Senate would simply give up and refuse to review the President's nominees to the Supreme Court, nor that an election would be more or less arbitrarily decided by a Supreme Court decision. At some point you have to acknowledge that a 230 year old Constitution isn't really adequate to address the needs of a modern democracy and start thinking about writing a new one that is.
9
Very few Americans object to a recount. I sure don't.
The real question is: Who should pay for it? Recounts aren't cheap.
Most (all?) states require a state-funded recount if the vote is very close. Also in most (all?) states, if the election was close but not close enough to trigger the "automatic recount" law, a disappointed candidate can demand a recount if she's willing to pay for it. If a recount happens and it turns out that the disappointed candidate was right, many states (all?) require the state to reimburse the candidate.
All that is fine with me. But I'm NOT fine with having taxpayers foot the bill when the election isn't close enough to trigger the "automatic recount" law and the recount doesn't change the result. (Nor does it make sense to allow a disappointed candidate to demand a recount if the margin was very large. Rarely is this an issue, of course – no losing candidate is going to demand a recount in a state where her opponent won by 20 points.)
What Stein proposes is fine with me, though we also need finality, pretty soon. So if Stein is willing to pay for a recount (more accurately: if her donors are willing) and the recount can happen fairly quickly, why not? And if it turns out Stein is right -- Clinton won those 3 states, not Trump -- then those states should pay for the recount, not Stein.
If Jill Stein wants to spend $4 million, or whatever it costs for recounts, great. Just don't ask taxpayers to foot the bill if it turns out she's wrong.
The real question is: Who should pay for it? Recounts aren't cheap.
Most (all?) states require a state-funded recount if the vote is very close. Also in most (all?) states, if the election was close but not close enough to trigger the "automatic recount" law, a disappointed candidate can demand a recount if she's willing to pay for it. If a recount happens and it turns out that the disappointed candidate was right, many states (all?) require the state to reimburse the candidate.
All that is fine with me. But I'm NOT fine with having taxpayers foot the bill when the election isn't close enough to trigger the "automatic recount" law and the recount doesn't change the result. (Nor does it make sense to allow a disappointed candidate to demand a recount if the margin was very large. Rarely is this an issue, of course – no losing candidate is going to demand a recount in a state where her opponent won by 20 points.)
What Stein proposes is fine with me, though we also need finality, pretty soon. So if Stein is willing to pay for a recount (more accurately: if her donors are willing) and the recount can happen fairly quickly, why not? And if it turns out Stein is right -- Clinton won those 3 states, not Trump -- then those states should pay for the recount, not Stein.
If Jill Stein wants to spend $4 million, or whatever it costs for recounts, great. Just don't ask taxpayers to foot the bill if it turns out she's wrong.
3
Of course!
"Florida should be recounted, too."
So should every state Trump won. Let's not recount any states that Clinton won, though -- such as New Hampshire, which she won by less than a thousand votes. I'm sure all of those states are just fine.
"Florida should be recounted, too."
So should every state Trump won. Let's not recount any states that Clinton won, though -- such as New Hampshire, which she won by less than a thousand votes. I'm sure all of those states are just fine.
5
Having just read a story in the Washington Post about Russia being behind the proliferation of fake news sites that promote Trump and create blatantly false and hurtful anti-Hillary stories, how can we possibly trust these election results?
10
Mr. Trump was onto something when he declared the election was rigged. He said it over and over again at all of his rallies. Why all of a sudden are he and his supporters so sure it hasn't been rigged? If the situation were reversed, and he had 2 million more votes than Hillary Clinton, but appeared to have lost the Electoral College, he and his supporter would be in full riot mode. Time for a full scale investigation. The FBI can stop wasting time and money on the non-issue of those emails, maybe they will have time to investigate the theft of this election.
10
Strange... the depressingly hopeless photo that signals the article... WHY?
Has a fickle NYT experienced an epiphany since The Donald's evidently seductive visit the other day and brushed aside all fears of 1933 revisited?Needless to say it presents a powerfully 'thousand word' negative pall on the factually muddled piece of misinformation which is headlined.
As so many readers have noted, the newsworthy item would/should concern yesterday's initiative by Jill Stein's Green Party to raise public funding (already at $2.5 Million ) to legally finance a recount in the 3 Battleground States listed before each state's imminent respective deadlines. The questions raised by apparently multiple qualified election officials were already described in somewhat specific and coherent detail by The Guardian yesterday particularly regarding tallies registered in areas using electronic voting machines. Is it too much to ask for a responsible informative and objective account of Jill Stein's initiative.
Has a fickle NYT experienced an epiphany since The Donald's evidently seductive visit the other day and brushed aside all fears of 1933 revisited?Needless to say it presents a powerfully 'thousand word' negative pall on the factually muddled piece of misinformation which is headlined.
As so many readers have noted, the newsworthy item would/should concern yesterday's initiative by Jill Stein's Green Party to raise public funding (already at $2.5 Million ) to legally finance a recount in the 3 Battleground States listed before each state's imminent respective deadlines. The questions raised by apparently multiple qualified election officials were already described in somewhat specific and coherent detail by The Guardian yesterday particularly regarding tallies registered in areas using electronic voting machines. Is it too much to ask for a responsible informative and objective account of Jill Stein's initiative.
12
The original intent of the Founders of the Constitution was to provide for electors who would serve as a check on the voters should they choose a candidate who was manifestly unfit to perform the duties of the President. They also wanted, in keeping with a constitutional democracy, to give each voter roughly equal voting power.
Many commenters and others are shrugging off the fact that Hillary Clinton has now amassed 2,000,000 more votes than her opponent. Let's do a thought experiment. Suppose, for the sake of argument, her margin increases to three or even four million. Would there be any gap, however, large, that would cause them to change their mind?
Many commenters and others are shrugging off the fact that Hillary Clinton has now amassed 2,000,000 more votes than her opponent. Let's do a thought experiment. Suppose, for the sake of argument, her margin increases to three or even four million. Would there be any gap, however, large, that would cause them to change their mind?
8
Secretary Clinton, you've done so much for so many. Please step up and do this one last thing...request a recount. We need you, and if you won those states, the prize is yours...and ours.
8
Jill Stein of the Green Party, as one of the candidates, can call for a recount in Pennsylvania by MONDAY. She has already raised the $2.5 million needed to call for a recount tomorrow (Friday) in Wisconsin, and is on track to raise an additional $2 million for Pennsylvania by Monday. About the same would be needed by Wednesday for Michigan.
It's about clearing out remaining doubts about the election, whether or not it affects the results. Donate here: https://jillstein.nationbuilder.com/recount
Read Professor Halderm's comments yourself here: he's much more optimistic than this NYTimes article is! https://medium.com/@jhalderm/want-to-know-if-the-election-was-hacked-loo...
It's about clearing out remaining doubts about the election, whether or not it affects the results. Donate here: https://jillstein.nationbuilder.com/recount
Read Professor Halderm's comments yourself here: he's much more optimistic than this NYTimes article is! https://medium.com/@jhalderm/want-to-know-if-the-election-was-hacked-loo...
9
If you don't like the result now then you will find more excuses to deny later
Some quips by the immortal one:
“This is like déjà vu all over again.”
- Yogi Berra
“The future ain’t what it used to be.”
- Yogi Berra
“No one goes there nowadays, it’s too crowded.”
- Yogi Berra
“You can observe a lot just by watching.”
- Yogi Berra
“This is like déjà vu all over again.”
- Yogi Berra
“The future ain’t what it used to be.”
- Yogi Berra
“No one goes there nowadays, it’s too crowded.”
- Yogi Berra
“You can observe a lot just by watching.”
- Yogi Berra
3
Why does this article not mention Jill Stein's legitimate campaign to raise funds and petition the vote as a candidate?
5
It's a moot point. She conceded..... if she thought that it was too close to call she, not Jill Stein should have requested a recount.
3
Why haven't you updated this report? Jill Stein just raised $3million + overnight for recounts in Wisconsin, Pennsylvania and Michigan.
Your current story is misleading and out of date.
Recounts have been filed and will happen.
This is poor reporting from NYT.
Your current story is misleading and out of date.
Recounts have been filed and will happen.
This is poor reporting from NYT.
10
If the tables were reversed, you think Donald Trump, the RNC and its phalanx of lawyers would not be screaming “rigged” and filing lawsuits up the wazoo? I’m just sayin’ on this Turkey Day – what’s good for the goose is good for the gander?
2
Why is every other news organization in the country telling its readers, listeners, and viewers about the fact that Jill Stein and the Greens have raised the money for recounts, and why is The New York Times not doing so as of yet? (11/24, 10:47 a.m. Eastern). Slow, NYT. And odd.
7
Why bother with a recount? Why bother with an election? Why waste time and money? Let's go straight to the coronation because the intelligent know all readers of NYT know what is best for the country. And her name is Hillary.
6
The election is not determined by popular vote. So suck it up butter cups. Oh and Obama didn't win the popular vote in 2012. So should his election have been recalled too? You all kill me when you don't like the electoral college when you lose but love it when you win. When you actively cheated in places like Philadelphia and Philadelphia couldn't bring it home. Because your black voters didn't show up at the polls. They stayed home instead. Let's be real the Democrat party has alienated everyone that lives outside of a major city and its suburbs. Those communities spoke and yoit heads are spinnine with disbelief. Boohoo baby
3
Dear New York Times (and other media): Please stop calling everyone that is fighting for justice "Hillary Supporters." Aside from being wrong, it is also divisive. Those of us who see Donald Trump for who he really is are trying to support you. But you make our support difficult when you use such simplistic, inaccurate, and polarizing language.
8
Hillary conceded! Now it's time for the Alt-left to move on!
6
Please! Get over it. Ms Clinton lost. Move on, Thank you.
7
There's a difference between voter fraud and vote hacking. That Russia may have hacked computers - some say unlikely - should be checked out lest conspiracy theories run rampant. Like - Bush/Gore
47
I donated to Jill Stein's efforts this morning. I am interested in American democracy and not what Putin or his sycophant in Trump Tower wants. This is my ninth Presidential election and this was by far the most disturbing. Being hacked by a foreign state, and after a public request by the Republican nominee that some foreign entity do so?!
My god, if this had happened to you Republicans you'd be brandishing your weapons in the streets and marching on Washington.
I can't stand your hypocrisy and betrayal of our democratic values in this country anymore. It's pathetic and very un-American.
My god, if this had happened to you Republicans you'd be brandishing your weapons in the streets and marching on Washington.
I can't stand your hypocrisy and betrayal of our democratic values in this country anymore. It's pathetic and very un-American.
175
Stein is ginning up attention for her woe-forgotten party - and using the faded hopes (and money) of Hillary supporters to do it.
25
The election was rigged and very soon we will find out who was involved.
44
Without a recount, we have no recorse but to depend on the Electors. That is a heavy burden we put on a handful of people. What a terrible situation we find ourselves in. Even the so called checks and balances don't work.
We have elected a man who we have not seen beyond his walk to the NY Times with the sole purpose of manipulating and bullying the press. His other meetings dealt with his business interests. Next we find that he's to busy to review intelligence reports.
Who, pray tell, is going to stand up to this thug? It better be the NYT's because journalism is our last best hope. We are all counting on you. Its not fair, but we have no other option.
We have elected a man who we have not seen beyond his walk to the NY Times with the sole purpose of manipulating and bullying the press. His other meetings dealt with his business interests. Next we find that he's to busy to review intelligence reports.
Who, pray tell, is going to stand up to this thug? It better be the NYT's because journalism is our last best hope. We are all counting on you. Its not fair, but we have no other option.
87
Just stop this nonsense Deomcrats! In only 15 states did Hillary have a majority of the votes and her overall share of the popular vote is less than 50 percent! 85 percent of the voting percents voted against her - enough is enough. She lost / you lost. Mob rule does not make right - the electoral collage exists to prevent this and it worked just fine in this election ( even though I do not support Trump).
36
How many of Mrs. Clinton's supporters would support a recount if the situation were reversed?
The hypocrisy exhibited in the last weeks is breathtaking.
The hypocrisy exhibited in the last weeks is breathtaking.
40
"A truly sophisticated hacking would result in a wider margin of victory that would not set off an automatic recount." Au contraire.
35
As is usual for this election, the New York Times is completely failing to cover the most important aspect of this story. Jill Stein is filing for recounts in Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania, and has raised over $4 million to support that effort in the last 30 hours or so. Hasn't the Times learned that focusing on Hillary alone causes them to miss important stories? This is not making me want to renew my cancelled subscription.
63
Get over it dems move on. Unfortunately he is starting to lean towards the left isnt that enogh
12
Recount all you like she will not get what she would need. Then they need to count all of the invalid votes that voted either way and take them off the count. She would probably and up losing the popular also. I thought Hillary and her ilk were above whining and crying about the outcome but I guess that's when it's the other person that loses.
24
If there were any voting irregularities it is most likely that urban Democrat political machines were the culprit.
25
The framing of this article is appalling: "Hillary Clinton Supporters Call for Vote Recount," as headline, with supporters framed as "activists," "in mourning," acting "paradoxically" like Trump. Is it really the best NYT can do, frame this as a scheme hatched by a bunch of overly emotional, sour grapes, Clinton hacks?
No matter that Jill Stein and many who are calling for the recount are not in fact Hillary Clinton supporters, and that the Green Party has a long history of concern for electoral integrity (however you feel about the Green Party). No matter that the instigators of the recall were academics and electronic polling experts. Whether or not the latter are Clinton supporters or not is not the reason they are so concerned about these results. As so many people have pointed out in these comments there's great evidence that this system during this election is badly flawed and vulnerable: states have banned these machines, Russian sought to sway the election, fake news was rampant, the states in question used new requirements like voter ID that are effectively forms of voter suppression. Plus huge numbers don't trust the system, and believe it "rigged against them," so might be likely to seek to rig it back in their favor.
It would be great for NYT to do this research in the first place via their own reporting. But if not, to not disparage or misrepresent those who are doing this research.
No matter that Jill Stein and many who are calling for the recount are not in fact Hillary Clinton supporters, and that the Green Party has a long history of concern for electoral integrity (however you feel about the Green Party). No matter that the instigators of the recall were academics and electronic polling experts. Whether or not the latter are Clinton supporters or not is not the reason they are so concerned about these results. As so many people have pointed out in these comments there's great evidence that this system during this election is badly flawed and vulnerable: states have banned these machines, Russian sought to sway the election, fake news was rampant, the states in question used new requirements like voter ID that are effectively forms of voter suppression. Plus huge numbers don't trust the system, and believe it "rigged against them," so might be likely to seek to rig it back in their favor.
It would be great for NYT to do this research in the first place via their own reporting. But if not, to not disparage or misrepresent those who are doing this research.
71
Michigan is paper ballots so the argument that there was some sort of international tampering of electronics just doesn't make sense. Also, Jill Stein states this is for election integrity and not to help Hillary Clinton but she ignores states like New Hampshire which were much closer than Pennsylvania.
18
We are talking about "American Exceptionalism" and we know about the peculiarities of the Electoral College; to be elected President, however, while being 2 million votes behind is an insult to the majority of the US voters. To the Clinton campaign: you owe it to your voters! Demand a recount in those and in any other state where the results are so close!
On another note (since I could not post a comment there): I salute Charles Blow and his excellent last article. Show the true colors of Mr. Trump!
On another note (since I could not post a comment there): I salute Charles Blow and his excellent last article. Show the true colors of Mr. Trump!
57
Typical Clinton move, don't directly challenge the results, but get a surrogate to do it with Democrats money. Stein gets more donations for the proposed audit that she get support in the election. Do you really buy it?
27
Trump insisted the election was fixed, and he of all people should know. So now is the time to prove him right and let Hillary assume her rightfully won office.
54
We need to make absolutely sure this election is valid before proceeding down this path of misery.
61
instead of crying for recount and marches,
the current administration should have ensured the initial count was clean
the current administration should have ensured the initial count was clean
6
Should this not be fully persued, I've surely cast my last worthless ballot. Not worth my time, any longer.
5
I think we are going to have to accept this one.I hope a recount happens, but believe what is more important, is that the DNC be dismantled, and rebuilt to be the party for the people, the Democratic Party it use to be.
22
A late challenge would be a bad precedent, because it would mean that investigators and lawyers on both sides would need to continue working for weeks, digging into every vote, even when the losing candidate has already conceded the election.
Mrs. Clinton, to her credit, has accepted the result. That should be good enough for her supporters.
Mrs. Clinton, to her credit, has accepted the result. That should be good enough for her supporters.
54
So long as a challenge is permitted, it isn't a late challenge.
Everybody knows that lots of Trump supporters would be demanding recounts aplenty if the situation were reversed, and that many Clinton supporters would be echoing many of the opposing parties sentiments verbatim. The two things all rational people can agree upon is the inherent unfairness of the electoral college, and the fact that the primaries aren't held on one day, nationwide. No wonder 46% of eligible voters didn't bother. Try googling: How much can one lose the popular vote and still win the electoral college? The numbers are staggering. If we can't have one person one vote, than at least the electoral votes could be awarded by percentages. We have no democracy if the system remains in place, but I suspect that many prefer it this way and perhaps don't believe in it after all.
31
There are extremely important reasons we aren't a nation of "mob rule". Reasons the constitution is what it is. Reasons that the federal governments powers are limited and localities like where you live (NY State, NY City) have even more power. Thus YOU can have what you want but you cannot force your views on me (should I choose to live in a different state and/or city). That's a good thing because I think having a crime family rule the US is wrong for America and you are all for it.
3
Even if the Clinton campaign does not ask for a recount, Obama should appoint a Special Prosecutor to investigate both the voting irregularities in these states and Russian interference in the election. Also, interested citizens and organizations should pursue these issues.
The FBI cannot be trusted to investigate this matter in an impartial manner given that most agents are conservatives who oppose Clinton. A majority Republican Committee in Congress cannot be trusted to investigate this matter given the polarized nature of Congress.
Assuming that the Special Prosecutor's work is not done before 1/20/17, there would be a firestorm similar to the one after the "Saturday Night Massacre," if Trump tried to dismiss the Prosecutor.
If a Special Prosecutor found clear evidence of violations of election laws, and that Clinton should have won the Electoral vote, Congress would have the responsibility to remove Trump from office and to install Clinton.
If Congress failed to act on it's responsibilities, it would be the end of Constitutional Democracy in this country, and the people would be required to take all necessary actions to restore it.
The FBI cannot be trusted to investigate this matter in an impartial manner given that most agents are conservatives who oppose Clinton. A majority Republican Committee in Congress cannot be trusted to investigate this matter given the polarized nature of Congress.
Assuming that the Special Prosecutor's work is not done before 1/20/17, there would be a firestorm similar to the one after the "Saturday Night Massacre," if Trump tried to dismiss the Prosecutor.
If a Special Prosecutor found clear evidence of violations of election laws, and that Clinton should have won the Electoral vote, Congress would have the responsibility to remove Trump from office and to install Clinton.
If Congress failed to act on it's responsibilities, it would be the end of Constitutional Democracy in this country, and the people would be required to take all necessary actions to restore it.
40
Please report on why Trump's son was sent to meet with Russia supporters in mid October or when Trump took a beating in the polls due to the 'hot mic' incident.
And why did Trump keep saying tgat he did not know what Putin wants in spite of this in person meeting between his son and Russia supporters
And why did Trump keep saying tgat he did not know what Putin wants in spite of this in person meeting between his son and Russia supporters
38
Some say it is not possible to "undo the results". What if we are not undoing the results, but rather discovering them?
39
If Trump truly wants to make America great, he should call for this recount. It would be a quality gesture to reach across the aisle, it would re-affirm the American commitment to democracy and he would gain a lot of supporters. Plus, if he really doesn't want to be president, losing the recount would give him a face-saving way to step away. Another benefit would be the look on the faces of Guiliani, Lewandowski, Conway, and others as they lose their Washington gravy train.
For all those reasons, Trump should do it as the odds of him still losing are very slim. C'mon Donald, vote for a recount. After all, what have you got to lose?!
For all those reasons, Trump should do it as the odds of him still losing are very slim. C'mon Donald, vote for a recount. After all, what have you got to lose?!
79
If you think there is any chance of that happening, I have some penny stocks to sell you. Trump's probably still pinching himself to make sure he's not dreaming that he won, And he didn't really, so why would he push his luck?
I'm still smarting from all the Clinton supporters who mocked me when I thought we needed an investigation into election tampering for Sanders. Now it's your pick and you're all for it? My how tunes change. That being said, there is clearly a possibility that tampering is, and has been, going on on both sides for the last several Presidential elections and it is time for an investigation.
41
They're still in the anger phase. Soon enough they'll move comfortably into the acceptance phase.
15
Thank you, Jill Stein for organizing a recount. Our democracy is clearly at stake as the Trump oligarchy takes shape. This is much more than a personal tragedy for both Sec. Clinton and President Obama, but a national disaster for the survival of Constitutional republic.
21
I voted in Delaware County Pennsylvania. We have touch screen voting machines that do not print receipts or any type of paper verification. In my Pennsylvania county the in person votes cannot be manually reviewed.
16
We let the Republicans walk away with two elections simply because they called them for themselves. Shouldn't there be a neutral party taking the popular and electoral counts into focus and then to make a ruling? It can't be as bad as letting the Supremes pick the next president. We the People are letting our elections get out of control.
25
Hillary will probably end up with a lead of 3-4 million popular votes. The margins in these three other states are so thin that the country deserves validation of the results through a careful examination of the votes cast. Especially with the constant threat of tampering via hacking and Russia's clear threats and actions to do so. If they hacked the DNC...why couldn't they hack the obsolete, less than secure voting technology of the states? If in fact Hillary won...than the people would have spoken and Trump would have to step aside.
30
Florida should be recounted, too. She was significantly ahead there in early voting, and a lot of people had already voted by election day. The margin would have had to be overwhelmingly for Trump on election day, so overwhelming that it's unlikely.
36
Obviously it should be done. The voters have been through too much this election and want peace of mind, particularly after Trump's shrill and demonic screams about rigging. He has unnerved and upset the country and we would like some reassurance that an unscrupulous monster has not staged a coup—he does seem to have the temperament for villainy. He and his sinister party seem more than capable of vote tampering in many rural enclaves with electronic voting, even before his awful Cabinet picks and naked pilfering of our national treasury for the gain of his venal family and their vulgar brand.
28
Green Candidates Jill Stein and Ajamu Baraka, not Hillary supporters, are asking for the recount in 3 swing states. They aren't doing it for Hillary Clinton or for themselves, they think it is important for America to have confidence in our elections. Trump has been screaming rigged! and some experts have questioned the vote count while others see no problem. We are potentially looking at years of conspiracy theories. Thank you Greens!
29
So, how come Jill Stein got only $3.5 million in campaign donations from Jan 2015 through this October 2016, yet she has raised $4 million in two weeks for a recount. Where is this money coming from?
2
The popular vote demonstrates that the "forgotten" are those who elected Clinton by a majority of the popular vote. So who is afraid of a recount in states where less than a 1/2 percentage point separates the winner from the "loser"? Let democracy work!
27
Trump supporters are going to rue the day when his economic and military policies bankrupt this country. As George W. Bush lied us into two illegal wars and gave big tax breaks to Wall St., nearly causing the the Second Great Depression, Trump is heading in the same direction with his selection of key members to his cabinet. It appears that he is going to give big tax breaks to corporations, increase the already bloated military budget and lighten the rules for Wall Street. As Betty Davis said in the classic movie, All about Eve, "You better strap on your seatbelts because it is going to be a bumpy ride!"
19
Hillary Clinton was apparently planning a massive tax break for corporate offshore profits:
https://newrepublic.com/article/138023/huge-corporate-tax-cut-hillary-cl...
Her reckless regime change in the MENA has left 1000s of innocent Muslims dead, Muslim nations destroyed.
https://newrepublic.com/article/138023/huge-corporate-tax-cut-hillary-cl...
Her reckless regime change in the MENA has left 1000s of innocent Muslims dead, Muslim nations destroyed.
2
Blah, blah, blah. Don't you liberals ever get tired of spouting the same old talking points over and over and over? Jeese, it gets old. You have no idea what Trump is going to do until he does it.
1
Not a word about Jill Stein raising 4 million dollars for a recount in 24 hours.
If the count of ballots is off 10% in one county, I have no faith in a decision/certification based on a 0.8% difference/victory.
If the count of ballots is off 10% in one county, I have no faith in a decision/certification based on a 0.8% difference/victory.
26
Jill Stein is quite clever.
She has been sounding the alarm all year about potential hacking of voting machines and electoral fraud in the Democratic primaries. The Democratic Party and its supporters said, "hooey", called it a conspiracy theory, and dismissed those complaints out of hand. "We won, you lost, get over it," they said.
Their tune is quite different of late.
Stein now has them admitting that hacking is not only possible, but that it may have occurred. What a delightful way to highlight the hypocrisy of the Democratic Party -- and Hillary supporters in particular -- for Sanders supporters everywhere. In my dread of the incoming President, I had almost forgotten how much I've come to loathe the Democratic Party.
She has been sounding the alarm all year about potential hacking of voting machines and electoral fraud in the Democratic primaries. The Democratic Party and its supporters said, "hooey", called it a conspiracy theory, and dismissed those complaints out of hand. "We won, you lost, get over it," they said.
Their tune is quite different of late.
Stein now has them admitting that hacking is not only possible, but that it may have occurred. What a delightful way to highlight the hypocrisy of the Democratic Party -- and Hillary supporters in particular -- for Sanders supporters everywhere. In my dread of the incoming President, I had almost forgotten how much I've come to loathe the Democratic Party.
16
Too bad there wasn't avaiable a wager pool on this. After Trump's win, I would have been willing to bet a modest amount that these sour grape calls that hacking and/or some other form of cheating occurred. How ironic that prior to the election the focus was on whether Trump would accept the results and how absurd that would be. Now here we are with Clinton supporters trying the rationalze the exact same behavior for which they derided him. Total hypocrits. How far behind can be "the vast right wing conspiracy?"
15
During the campaign, Hillary made very clear to her supporters that the peaceful transition of power was what makes our system of government so special, no matter who holds office. She was quick to ridicule Trump that he could not bring himself to respect the election results before the election no matter what they might be. Apparently these protesting supporters were not paying attention to these sane and wise points; they could have learned from their candidate.
43
Obama is saying this, too, by word and deed.
1
I can think of several reasons for peitioning for recount:
1. Recount will decide or settle for us who would manage the course of our country in the next four years,
2. A respected computer expert has raised valid and reasonable doubts about the sanctity of our voting machines,
3. Russians are known to meddle with other countries electoral processes,
4. They have made no secret of their preference for Trump's as our president,
5. Russians have proven to one and all their prowess at penetrating our computer firewalls and hacking our computers,
6. Breaking all norms, Trump openly invited Russians to hack Hillary Clinton's emails and make them public,
7. Russians did one better. They not only hacked Clinton's emails, they hacked Hillary's chairman Podesta and DNC's emails as well to humiliate the entire Democratic Party and their campaign and presidential ticket.
What else do we need to force investigation of this matter? I believe it's time for President Obama and his AG to show some spine and ask the DOJ Inspector General to look into this and the FBI intervention matter and report back to them before the end of December.
1. Recount will decide or settle for us who would manage the course of our country in the next four years,
2. A respected computer expert has raised valid and reasonable doubts about the sanctity of our voting machines,
3. Russians are known to meddle with other countries electoral processes,
4. They have made no secret of their preference for Trump's as our president,
5. Russians have proven to one and all their prowess at penetrating our computer firewalls and hacking our computers,
6. Breaking all norms, Trump openly invited Russians to hack Hillary Clinton's emails and make them public,
7. Russians did one better. They not only hacked Clinton's emails, they hacked Hillary's chairman Podesta and DNC's emails as well to humiliate the entire Democratic Party and their campaign and presidential ticket.
What else do we need to force investigation of this matter? I believe it's time for President Obama and his AG to show some spine and ask the DOJ Inspector General to look into this and the FBI intervention matter and report back to them before the end of December.
32
Start with a few of the most populous counties in each of those states. If the initial audit numbers are consistent with the actual results reported, then they are obviously barking up a tree and can request that such efforts be abandoned. But if there is any indication that the audit results are off to the extent that it cannot be statistically explained due to random error in the counting, then the efforts should be expanded statewide to each jurisdiction in question.
8
Others have made two conflicting points:
1. The Electoral College method of electing Presidents is embodied in the Constitution.
BUT...
2. The Constitution lets each state decide how to choose the state's electors.
48 states say: "Whoever gets the most votes in this state gets all of our electoral votes."
Maine and Nebraska are a bit different. They follow the general rule for 2 electoral votes, but award the rest (2 more in Maine, 3 more in Nebraska) based on how the candidates do in each Congressional district.
Several states have passed laws pledging to award the state's electoral votes based on the nationwide popular vote. So far, however, those states' "pledges" are so festooned with conditions that it's a stretch to say they're really pledged.
Nevertheless, the states that have passed such laws are acknowledging two important points:
A. It's possible to do away with the EC without amending the Constitution.
B. Quite a number of states want to do that.
Bottom line, though, these "We'll abide by the national popular vote" states are far short, EC-vote-wise, of what's necessary to change things, and not one of their "pledges" actually takes effect until (if ever) enough states have passed similar laws that they control the outcome of Presidential elections. I don't foresee that ever happening -- just as I don't foresee a Constitutional amendment to do away with the EC. And so the EC will remain the law of the land into the indefinite future, maybe forever.
1. The Electoral College method of electing Presidents is embodied in the Constitution.
BUT...
2. The Constitution lets each state decide how to choose the state's electors.
48 states say: "Whoever gets the most votes in this state gets all of our electoral votes."
Maine and Nebraska are a bit different. They follow the general rule for 2 electoral votes, but award the rest (2 more in Maine, 3 more in Nebraska) based on how the candidates do in each Congressional district.
Several states have passed laws pledging to award the state's electoral votes based on the nationwide popular vote. So far, however, those states' "pledges" are so festooned with conditions that it's a stretch to say they're really pledged.
Nevertheless, the states that have passed such laws are acknowledging two important points:
A. It's possible to do away with the EC without amending the Constitution.
B. Quite a number of states want to do that.
Bottom line, though, these "We'll abide by the national popular vote" states are far short, EC-vote-wise, of what's necessary to change things, and not one of their "pledges" actually takes effect until (if ever) enough states have passed similar laws that they control the outcome of Presidential elections. I don't foresee that ever happening -- just as I don't foresee a Constitutional amendment to do away with the EC. And so the EC will remain the law of the land into the indefinite future, maybe forever.
3
After all of the wasted time, money and effort of the Behngazhi hearings, now the left has their own unicorn: RecountGate!
As an independent voter who cast a ballot for Johnson-Weld, I can say that if I had to bet on which side benefited more from "irregular voting activities", it would not be Trump.
The incessant whining about the Electoral College is rich, coming from the same folks who often proclaimed the need for the system to protect the uneducated "deplorable" electorate from themselves, and defended the existence of Super Delegates in the primaries.
The sooner the D's get the final stage of grieving and accept the reasons why Hillary lost, the sooner there can be real change in the party hierarchy, and ultimately the emergence of improved candidates that independent voters like myself (who voted D in every other Pres election) can get behind.
It's time to move on, for better or worse.
As an independent voter who cast a ballot for Johnson-Weld, I can say that if I had to bet on which side benefited more from "irregular voting activities", it would not be Trump.
The incessant whining about the Electoral College is rich, coming from the same folks who often proclaimed the need for the system to protect the uneducated "deplorable" electorate from themselves, and defended the existence of Super Delegates in the primaries.
The sooner the D's get the final stage of grieving and accept the reasons why Hillary lost, the sooner there can be real change in the party hierarchy, and ultimately the emergence of improved candidates that independent voters like myself (who voted D in every other Pres election) can get behind.
It's time to move on, for better or worse.
18
Do the recount or the serious questions about Russian interference in the 2016 election will rightly linger forever. Republicans should be the first to support any effort, including a recount, to prevent voting fraud--since they crowed so loudly about it before Election Day despite no plausible evidence the Democrats were doing it, and plenty of evidence that Republicans themselves were doing all they could to impede voters likely to choose Democrats. At worse, a recount puts the conspiracy theories to rest. At best, we may be able to prevent the worst presidency in history from actually happening.
13
Almost eight years ago, an unknown young Democrat named Barack Obama was elected President of the United States of America. Did we constest, rant, whine, cry, or protest the election as seen today? Doubtful, Obama was re-elected. Why? Republicans probably stayed home rather than vote for a career politician. They accepted the results not once but twice. Now,we the people have spoken. The forgotten Americans had enough corruption. Not everyone receives a trophy for participation. Get over it, accept the results and start making America great for all.
22
For all, except the majority of voters who voted in favor of democracy, justice and basic economic and health insurance for all, and reversing man-made climate change.
14
The difference is that the actual results in prior years were consistent with both pre-election and exit polls, which cannot be said about this election.
16
We are not a direct democracy. We are a representative democracy and have been one for 240 years. Big difference. Look it up.
2
I keep hoping I will wake up and this election cycle was only a bad dream. From the moment the Republicans took to the first debate stage everything I care about, public education , the environment, separation of church and state, women's rights has been bashed. My guess is, that the idea of a recount, is only a good dream never to be reality.
25
I just hate to read the pessimistic pronouncements of some people. It doesn't help. It doesn't hurt to hope, and to get fully behind efforts to right the balance. Its normal (as I well know!) to want to wake up from the nightmare. But keep hope alive until all the avenues have been tried.
Then contact me and we ll all go to Ontario or Vancouver. The weather's getting better up there anyway, as it's getting worse here in the south.
Then contact me and we ll all go to Ontario or Vancouver. The weather's getting better up there anyway, as it's getting worse here in the south.
3
He is already back pedaling on alot of promises. Isnt that enough ungreatful dems?
Given that through an accident of history there happens to be a lengthy period between the voting and the inauguration what possible argument can there be against a recount? What are the politicians and the people so frightened of? The truth? Elections in the US are already a never ending cycle, so what difference does it make whether the previous or the next one is fought during the interregnum?
24
Haven't read all 1700 comments so probably repeating the point others have made, that we don't really know the popular vote. We only know the total votes within the construct of the Electoral College. If it's true that voters are happier to vote for winners than losers, there's not much point in Democrats voting in Texas or Indiana, say, and certainly no point in Republicans voting in California or New York (where all of Clinton's lead, and then some, resides). Only if every voter knew his or vote counted would we know the actual popular vote. No doubt someone like Sam Wang has an algorithm to estimate it now, but I haven't read it.
5
Americans are not as widely dispersed as they were in the 18th century. We do not need the electoral college to represent people out of touch with one another. We connect almost at the speed of light. Direct elections rather than something as contrived as the electoral college is what a modern democracy needs. The crux of the matter is securing the vote. The NSA hasn't even figured that out. Make America Smart Again.
16
The electoral college is brilliant. The founding fathers were afraid of direct democracy. We are a nation of states, and they wanted to protect the small states from being run over by the large ones. If 55% of the population lived in NYC and SF, politicians would only pay attention to those two cities. No one else would matter. With the electoral college, politicians have to pay attention to ALL states. That's why it is a brilliant set up.
17
If the EC were abolished, then California voters would choose all future presidents. Is that democratic?
If CA vote totals were subtracted from US total popular vote total, then Trump would be ahead in the popular vote as well as ahead in the EC vote.
If CA vote totals were subtracted from US total popular vote total, then Trump would be ahead in the popular vote as well as ahead in the EC vote.
1
Too many irregularities this year with never-before interference from foreign entities and the FBI. With Die-bold intimately involved in electronic vote-counting and their history of supporting conservative candidates as a corporation, the very least we can do is investigate. The citizens of this country must demand we ensure no election can be rigged, hacked or otherwise tampered with. That the popular vote is significantly ahead of the electoral college vote, a manual recount in very close states seems in order.
24
What they should be doing is advocating for the Voter ID Law instead. It is the only way to really protect the voting system. No more dead people, or illegals going to the polls. The Left claims it targets minorities. What they fail to mention is that Nelson Mandela implemented the law in Africa, and they were very strict. One person, one vote. No ID, no vote.
I am sure that if they truly investigate they will find out that Mrs. Clinton did not win the popular vote either.
I am sure that if they truly investigate they will find out that Mrs. Clinton did not win the popular vote either.
11
The better path would be to make voting easier, a national holiday - no missing work, or allow several different days to vote so people can get there.
The dead people on the voter rolls do not actually vote, so this isn't a fraud issue, rather a delay in removing these people. There is no mechanism to notify election boards of deaths, as far as I know. Perhaps Social Security, which does get notified by funeral homes, should also be required to notify election boards so this non-issue is no longer talked about.
The dead people on the voter rolls do not actually vote, so this isn't a fraud issue, rather a delay in removing these people. There is no mechanism to notify election boards of deaths, as far as I know. Perhaps Social Security, which does get notified by funeral homes, should also be required to notify election boards so this non-issue is no longer talked about.
4
What nonsense.
Please, show us these dead people and illegals voting. You can't because it's a right wing fantasy.
Whether Clinton could win with recounts, it would be helpful to know the counts are accurate, and if they're not accurate, why they're not. At a time when hacking is possible,
in such a close election with the loser garnering two million or more votes over the winner, what's the harm in recounting? And if the recounting is above-board, is doesn't matter who pays for the effort. This election has been so laden with lies and misinformation, that knowing the count and amount seems like common sense.
Doug Giebel
Big Sandy, Montana
in such a close election with the loser garnering two million or more votes over the winner, what's the harm in recounting? And if the recounting is above-board, is doesn't matter who pays for the effort. This election has been so laden with lies and misinformation, that knowing the count and amount seems like common sense.
Doug Giebel
Big Sandy, Montana
22
I didn't vote for either Hillary the Horrible or Donald the Dumb (Sorry - but that is how I felt about the candidate choices). But I do think Trump ran the better campaign by focusing on getting electoral votes from the "swing states. Even so, I was surprised he won, but win he did under the laws of this country. Maybe he will be able to work with this Congress because Clinton would have faced a totally hostile Congress - one more interested in investigation and impeachment than legislation.
11
Yes, Trump will be able to work wtih congress on behalf of the 1% (see who he appoints to his cabineet) and he will work with Congress to move this country backwards to the time of the oil barons and such.
5
The must be a recount in these 3 states to finally and properly determine the election outcome. It would be a travesty not to have a recount.
I just don't buy the argument that demographics explain the odd disparity because demographics suggest the opposite result. Cites are most likely to have voting machines and be pro-Democrat.
I just don't buy the argument that demographics explain the odd disparity because demographics suggest the opposite result. Cites are most likely to have voting machines and be pro-Democrat.
14
I believe point of a recount in the Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin isn't to try to change the fact that Trump will take office on January 20. It would take a reversal in all three states to achieve that goal. If there were any real chance of chance of that, so one would have to even ask the Clinton campaign to file for and pay for recounts.
The point is to find out whether the Russians or anyone else, even Trump's 400 pound guy sitting on his bed, was able to hack even one state's vote count. If so, out country has a lot of work to do to prevent even worse attacks in the future.
The point is to find out whether the Russians or anyone else, even Trump's 400 pound guy sitting on his bed, was able to hack even one state's vote count. If so, out country has a lot of work to do to prevent even worse attacks in the future.
20
Verification of results is never a bad idea. Disregard party politics for a moment. A growing number of Americans are coming to understand just how vulnerable we all are to hacking. Look at the massive attack on Yahoo. 500 million user accounts were compromised for 2 years before the data breach was detected and was most likely carried out by a nation state sponsored actor. Or the massive DDoS attacks which crippled websites in the US and Europe less than a month before the election. Given the high stakes - it is foolish not to question the results and verify.
21
Those who are saying to not bother with a recount do not seem to realize that at this point, unless a recount is done, there are millions of people who will never believe the results of this election - even though those results the results of the Electoral College. Trump has done nothing to reach out to those who opposed him. Let him take the lumps. If the recount confirms him, he will have plenty over the next four years.
14
The possibility of a recount of votes in MI, WI, PA, FL, and NC is no doubt stressful to Mr. Trump, who is also under major stress from his never-ending federal and state tax audits. Why are the audits not yet complete? What's taking so long?
The IRS and NY State Tax Dept. should take a page from
the FBI, who so wonderfully blitzed through Hillary Clinton's e-mails in the last few days before the election, and should put all hands on deck to complete the audits before the Electoral College meets. Mr. Trump will then share his tax returns, as he promised, for the public's review. That plus a recount of the votes in question should put his mind at ease and will reassure the American public that nothing at all--about any outstanding Russian loans, for example--is being hidden in dark corners. Recounts proving he won the election fair and square and full disclosure of his tax records will let us all relax. Mr. Trump, of course, is still facing many lawsuits, but he will weather those storms and will then rule us with a clear mind and gentle heart and we will all get to see and adore him every night on TV. Win-win.
The IRS and NY State Tax Dept. should take a page from
the FBI, who so wonderfully blitzed through Hillary Clinton's e-mails in the last few days before the election, and should put all hands on deck to complete the audits before the Electoral College meets. Mr. Trump will then share his tax returns, as he promised, for the public's review. That plus a recount of the votes in question should put his mind at ease and will reassure the American public that nothing at all--about any outstanding Russian loans, for example--is being hidden in dark corners. Recounts proving he won the election fair and square and full disclosure of his tax records will let us all relax. Mr. Trump, of course, is still facing many lawsuits, but he will weather those storms and will then rule us with a clear mind and gentle heart and we will all get to see and adore him every night on TV. Win-win.
20
Bravo! Add: 24/7 investigation of the Trump campaign-Russian connections to completion before the Electors vote, so Americans can be assured he is not a Manchurian candidate for the Russians.
10
It is possible that many Republicans, who might have voted for Trump, did not bother to vote in heavily blue states, California, NY, Mass, etc. Add them to the voters too disgusted with one or the other candidate to vote, and I'd bet Clinton's popular vote margin would be cut significantly.
But I'm all for a recount where electoral fraud might have occurred, just as I was for a recount in the rigged against Sanders Democrat Primary where there was definitely electoral fraud in NYC and more than a couple of states. It is important that we have clean, transparent elections, as what little democracy we have left after the influence of money and vote suppression, we need to protect and grow.
But I'm all for a recount where electoral fraud might have occurred, just as I was for a recount in the rigged against Sanders Democrat Primary where there was definitely electoral fraud in NYC and more than a couple of states. It is important that we have clean, transparent elections, as what little democracy we have left after the influence of money and vote suppression, we need to protect and grow.
32
And a lot of Democrats who might have voted for Hillary did not bother to vote in heavily red states like Texas, Georgia, Arizona, Indiana, etc. Add them to the voters too disgusted with one or the other candidate to vote, and I'd bet Clinton's popular vote margin would be expanded considerably.
See, it works both ways, but for some reason that logic escapes so many people who make excuses for Trump's popular vote loss. And he did lose the popular vote, by 2 million and counting.
That's just one more reason a recount in narrow states like Michigan and Ohio is important.
See, it works both ways, but for some reason that logic escapes so many people who make excuses for Trump's popular vote loss. And he did lose the popular vote, by 2 million and counting.
That's just one more reason a recount in narrow states like Michigan and Ohio is important.
7
"[Trump] refused to say he would respect the results of this election. Now, make no mistake, by doing that he is threatening our democracy. The peaceful transition of power is one of the things that sets us apart. It's how we hold our country together no matter who is in charge."
--- Hillary Clinton to supporters
Donald Trump refused to say that he'd respect the results of this election. That's a direct threat to our democracy.
--- Tweet made by Hillary Clinton
Never mind me. I'm just here to soak in the cognitive dissonance.
--- Hillary Clinton to supporters
Donald Trump refused to say that he'd respect the results of this election. That's a direct threat to our democracy.
--- Tweet made by Hillary Clinton
Never mind me. I'm just here to soak in the cognitive dissonance.
16
Um ... do you fail to understand what's happening? No one's contesting the results of the election. They're saying let's SEE the results of the election. Do you suppose Mr. Trump has some reason to fear that?
1
Please tell me ONE single example of anything she has said or done that was not perfectly in line with a smooth transition of power? It is NOT HRC who is urging the recount!!! Furthermore, those persons who are have really compelling reasons for wanting these recounts yet have not alleged they believe fraud has taken place nor have they suggested that the actual outcome of the election would change! Obviously, most of the people who have a problem with the recount haven't yet bothered to read WHY it is being suggested, who is doing to the suggesting, & how many YEARS many of them have held this opinion (auditing of elections) not just because of this election.
Any idea how many State elections have been audited and the outcome of those election DID change based on the 'errors' with machines?
Any idea how many State elections have been audited and the outcome of those election DID change based on the 'errors' with machines?
2
If Trump had lost the Electoral College by similar amounts in those three states, he would not have conceded but suing each state to get the election reversed. Actually, on election day Trump sued to overturn the voting rules in Nevada. The courts wisely denied his request. Perhaps, it is best that Hillary lost since this just proves she never had the toughness required to win.
5
The Republicans, of all the promoters of voting fraud and rigging before the election, should be advocating confirmation recounts. If only to determine how much "fraud" is really there and to reinforce their win. Also, given that the Russians hacked the party that lost, in the end, is strong circumstantial evidence they may have done more to affect the voting results than we know right now.
If Republicans object, then there may be "something" there, they do not want it to come out - like the fact they did the rigging themselves, perhaps.
No recount? We should demand an investigation.
If Republicans object, then there may be "something" there, they do not want it to come out - like the fact they did the rigging themselves, perhaps.
No recount? We should demand an investigation.
10
I have seen no media analysis of the steady increase of Hillary's lead in the popular vote to about 2 million. Based on the original "official" counts, it looks to me as if the increase of 1.5 million votes came almost entirely from California, where her total vote increased from around 5.5 million to 7.2 million. That seems to me to be far more suspicious than the desperate attempt to find something sinister in the difference between paper and electronic voting results in swing states.
9
The Electoral College does not work the way it was intended, so we should either eliminate it or fix it. The way it is now has shown to produce the exact problem that one of our founding fathers was trying to prevent. James Madison was afraid of what was later dubbed the “tyranny of the majority”- a fear of factions that held exclusionary views that hurt the rights of others, because it would “sacrifice to its ruling passion or interest both the public good and the rights of other citizens.” In case these people actually outnumber the more moderate and accepting voters (per the spirit of his Constitution) he wanted to be able to exact a certain amount of governance (he thought) to put a kind of rudder in the water to stay the course of spirit of the constitution. But, as I think we’ve just seen, pretty much the exact thing Madison worried would happen, happened. It doesn’t work, so let’s get rid of it, or at least fix it at least so that a majority in any particular state doesn’t dump ALL that state’s electors into the pot. It doesn’t work. The elector vote should represent the spirit of Democracy, and the spirit of Democracy is that the majority rules. Should there turn out to be a Hater Faction that outnumbers everyone else in the country, then we’re done for, anyway- it should never have been allowed to fester to that point. The popular vote indicates that hasn’t happened yet (thank God) -even if it only whispers it reassuringly in our ears at the moment.
7
More than a decade ago while in graduate school I wrote a paper that electronic voting systems would be more trusted if audit and verification capabilities are observable and measurable in the registration, vote casting, and vote tally processes. As with research of the impact of gun violence and in gun safety technology, I feel as if political interests have strictly limited the progress the U.S. could have made in these areas. Yes indeed, please let's audit the vote tallies in a few states. It is never too late to get on the right track.
14
You have got to be kidding me, for months we were told that a Clinton victory was a fait accompli and the Trump campaign should just concede prior to Election Day. To add insult to that notion the media insisted Trump accept the outcome should Clinton win. Now after being soundly defeated in the Electoral College by a large majority, the popular vote at this point is irrelevant, As the vote tallies are drilled down it will be found in many blue states and sanctuary cities voter fraud was rampant particularly in California with undocumented aliens. President Obama in a interview gave these undocumented aliens what was tantamount to permission and encouragement to vote. The Democrats insisted on supporting one of the weakest candidates in American history. The reason Mrs. Clinton lost was simple.. no one liked her.
21
The majority of Americans voted for her - liker her or not. A recount would validate or invalidate, from evidence, the actual count revealing any fraud or tampering. Why would you, or anyone, object to that?
1
You should stop reading fake news sources.
A system that gives some Americans 3-4 times the voting power just because they live in the hinterlands (supported by the tax dollars from urban metropolitan areas) is undemocratic. Period.
A system that gives some Americans 3-4 times the voting power just because they live in the hinterlands (supported by the tax dollars from urban metropolitan areas) is undemocratic. Period.
2
KB says: "we were told that a Clinton victory was a fait accompli and the Trump campaign should just concede prior to Election Day. "
This is what is known as "fake news"
This is what is known as "fake news"
I suggest that all those who supported the Clinton campaign write to US DOJ as well as state AGs in Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania. Verification of the results would lessen the anxiety that many of us are likely to feel for a long, long time, if not for the next full 4-year term.
Two, in veiew of the very public support of the Russians for Trump and their known considerable capability at hacking, the state and federal governments owe citizens the duty to look into the functioning of the voting machines.
Three, I suggest that we citizens pool our resources, $5, $10, $20 each to retain a couple of top lawyers and computer experts to examine both the legal and technical aspects immediately. As for PA, even if it's late for the outsiders to request recount, could the state undertake this matter on its own to verify the hacking and malfunctioning aspects of the count?
I ask all left wing and Hillary's supporters to stop debating this matter and just plunge into the matter. Regardless of the outcome, the re-examination excercise by itself would calm down our nerves for a long time to come. What'd you say. Folks?
Two, in veiew of the very public support of the Russians for Trump and their known considerable capability at hacking, the state and federal governments owe citizens the duty to look into the functioning of the voting machines.
Three, I suggest that we citizens pool our resources, $5, $10, $20 each to retain a couple of top lawyers and computer experts to examine both the legal and technical aspects immediately. As for PA, even if it's late for the outsiders to request recount, could the state undertake this matter on its own to verify the hacking and malfunctioning aspects of the count?
I ask all left wing and Hillary's supporters to stop debating this matter and just plunge into the matter. Regardless of the outcome, the re-examination excercise by itself would calm down our nerves for a long time to come. What'd you say. Folks?
11
"Verification of the results would lessen the anxiety that many of us are likely to feel for a long, long time, if not for the next full 4-year term."
This may come as a surprise to you, but there were some unhappy people when Obama was elected. Were you calling for recounts then, as a palliative for "anxiety"?
Sorry, special snowflake. We don't do recounts because some people like yourself -- detached from reality in political bubbles -- suddenly realized that not everyone shares your views. Ask a fifth grader to explain to you that in a democracy, sometimes you lose. For the "anxiety," get a puppy.
This may come as a surprise to you, but there were some unhappy people when Obama was elected. Were you calling for recounts then, as a palliative for "anxiety"?
Sorry, special snowflake. We don't do recounts because some people like yourself -- detached from reality in political bubbles -- suddenly realized that not everyone shares your views. Ask a fifth grader to explain to you that in a democracy, sometimes you lose. For the "anxiety," get a puppy.
2
Comparing the popular vote to the electoral college is misleading. Supporters who are now advocating direct democracy believe that the entire United States should be judged as a single nation-wide popularity contest. The electoral college instead gives us fifty separate popularity contests, of which President elect Trump won 30. Stop and think about that. Would you rather have to win one popularity contest or try to win the best of fifty? Which would be more difficult? Anyhow, we already know that the vast majority of the popular vote margin in Hillary's favor is from the most populous state of California (known to have voting irregularities of its own). As it stands, Trump has already said that a popular vote race would have only required him and Secretary Clinton to campaign in four states, which is indicative of just how representative such a vote would be of the rest of the country. However, if you are convinced that the only civilized people in the nation inhabit the coastal regions, and that the rest of the country is inhabited by mouth breathing bigoted trailer trash, a direct democracy vote would be the way to go. Which is another way of saying that you believe Hillary's 'basket of deplorables' comment was a vast understatement, and that the coasts should probably secede anyway. If you are unable to see how such an opinion directly contravenes any democratic, sober and essentially sane view of our great and diverse nation, then go ahead and send money to Jill Stein.
16
Just do it. The Russians got involved in our election. WikiLeaks was working for Trump in an egregiously unfair and largely defamatory invasion of privacy and normal business practices. Trump's attacks on his opponents was shamefully debased. I am still dealing with that level of garbage from my youngest son, who at 23 has allowed himself to get infected with this profoundly disturbing, immature hate speech. There's no other word for it: that's not politics-as-usual, that's unhinged spewing of garbage at the nominee of a major party, someone who has a lengthy history of effective public service and serious intellectual chops. So why such unprecedented lack of respect? It inevitably makes one think the side that hates so much would be capable of anything, even of tampering with votes, even of infecting machines with malware, just to torment the other side. Let's have an objective, precise & transparent audit. Get the experts in there. American voters are also Taxpayers. We need to know we were not defrauded, lied to, or sold a bogus product. Customer service, please!
8
Bravo! We need the DOJ and FBI as part of the investigative team for the recount and forensic analysis of the voting process. We need this done on a 24/7 schedule along with completing the investigation on the Trump campaign-Russian connections to save our nation.
5
"an egregiously unfair and largely defamatory invasion of privacy and normal business practices"
By that, of course you are referring to the hacking and release of DNC emails that nobody from the DNC has ever denied were genuine. Since when are facts "defamatory"?
By that, of course you are referring to the hacking and release of DNC emails that nobody from the DNC has ever denied were genuine. Since when are facts "defamatory"?
This brings back memories of LBJ's early days:
"Let's take away all of those dead that voted."
The second volume of Robert Caro's multi-volume biography of LBJ is devoted almost entirely to LBJ's initial election to the Senate in 1941, in a special election against a very popular Texas politician, Coke Stevenson. LBJ was put over the top by some late votes in a few south Texas counties. Those voters were a bit suspicious, to say the least:
1. They all showed up at the polls shortly before they closed.
2. They all voted in alphabetical order.
3. They were all dead.
Other than that, there was nothing wrong with those votes, and LBJ won with them -- and eventually went on to even greater successes.
The point is that dead voters have long paid an important role in US elections. It seems unfair -- even unAmerican! -- to object to them now.
"Let's take away all of those dead that voted."
The second volume of Robert Caro's multi-volume biography of LBJ is devoted almost entirely to LBJ's initial election to the Senate in 1941, in a special election against a very popular Texas politician, Coke Stevenson. LBJ was put over the top by some late votes in a few south Texas counties. Those voters were a bit suspicious, to say the least:
1. They all showed up at the polls shortly before they closed.
2. They all voted in alphabetical order.
3. They were all dead.
Other than that, there was nothing wrong with those votes, and LBJ won with them -- and eventually went on to even greater successes.
The point is that dead voters have long paid an important role in US elections. It seems unfair -- even unAmerican! -- to object to them now.
When making accusations like that, evidence should be provided.
1
As a practical matter, whenever there have been recounts at state level, the vote tallies have moved by just a couple thousand votes -- and there is no predicting in which way they will move. Even in Michigan, where Trump is up by (from memory) a little upwards of 10,000 votes, a recount in unlikely to alter the result. In Pennsylvania Trump is (from memory) ca. 60,000 votes ahead. Unless someone has some real evidence of serious errors somewhere, this is all wasted and counterproductive effort. Do not get me wrong: I did not vote for Trump, and I find Trump abhorrent. But according to the rules he won, and the legitimacy of the democratic system requires that we accept the result and move on (no matter with how many muttered imprecations). Trump was irresponsible to insinuate that the system was rigged (with no evidence whatsoever), and Democrats would be irresponsible to question the legitimacy of the results without any evidence. Before the election Ohio's (Republican) Secretary of State challenged Trump to identify any problems and promised that he (the SoS) would look into them if Trump did, and all one heard was crickets chirping. If someone knows of any serious problem in need of rectification let him speak now; but barring that, we need to move on. Let us husband our strength for fighting the good fight to limit the damage which Trump can do once he gets into the Oval Office.
6
Post election my comment below was submitted more than once.
It is statistically impossible for so many polls to be so very wrong.
There is always a margin of error, but in this case those margins were always within reason.
The number of polls taken was very high and were very consistent in their conclusions.
I maintain that ANYTHING can be hacked and I say this from a background in information technology.
Was this election hacked. The hope is that somewhere some capable group or organization will take up the task of proving this to be or not to be the case. Let chips fall - wherever.
Apply the Freedom of Information Act to a study of the system analysis for the compilation of voting results. Apply it to a study/examination of the software developed for the implementation of the system.
Modifying numbers to meet predetermined outcomes is certainly possible. Begin an examination of 4 or 5 important states and move on from there.
Another question: Where was the system and the software developed and what specific entities where involved in the effort.
Were there back doors.
Trump decided to run for president, a great surprise to the world at large. He did so because he knew he would win.
His entire outrageous/offensive campaign, his demeaning attitude toward many groups of persons, his blatant over-confidence and swagger was possible because he knew he would win.
"Rigged" he said. Yes, for himself.
Q.E.D. everyone.
Add: The task is important for future election certainty.
It is statistically impossible for so many polls to be so very wrong.
There is always a margin of error, but in this case those margins were always within reason.
The number of polls taken was very high and were very consistent in their conclusions.
I maintain that ANYTHING can be hacked and I say this from a background in information technology.
Was this election hacked. The hope is that somewhere some capable group or organization will take up the task of proving this to be or not to be the case. Let chips fall - wherever.
Apply the Freedom of Information Act to a study of the system analysis for the compilation of voting results. Apply it to a study/examination of the software developed for the implementation of the system.
Modifying numbers to meet predetermined outcomes is certainly possible. Begin an examination of 4 or 5 important states and move on from there.
Another question: Where was the system and the software developed and what specific entities where involved in the effort.
Were there back doors.
Trump decided to run for president, a great surprise to the world at large. He did so because he knew he would win.
His entire outrageous/offensive campaign, his demeaning attitude toward many groups of persons, his blatant over-confidence and swagger was possible because he knew he would win.
"Rigged" he said. Yes, for himself.
Q.E.D. everyone.
Add: The task is important for future election certainty.
14
"It is statistically impossible for so many polls to be so very wrong."
Ummmm, no. You just flat-out made that up.
Ummmm, no. You just flat-out made that up.
1
Lot of comments about voter fraud, I thought that wasn't a real thing?
9
I see very few comments about voter fraud, but many about other ways of manipulating the vote.
The voters aren't frauds, the President-elect is. Get it ?
1
So do the recount already....
9
If DJT was really smart, HE'D ask for and pay for an audit just to prove he's legitimately the elected president. These questions will never go away without an audit.
5
I agree
He paid them once to get the right result, why not twice. He can just sell more of those fancy gifts he's taking from various heads of state.
He paid them once to get the right result, why not twice. He can just sell more of those fancy gifts he's taking from various heads of state.
1
Ny Times and all the non believers: Read my lips, Trump won, fair and square, get accustomed to it.
13
In an undemoctatic system - one that considers people in large states 1/4 or 1/3 of a person.
1
When was politics ever fair and square? Tip O'Neal said,that all politics is local. Look around, it's a mess all over. We are still scratching our heads about Bridgegate, in NJ. Chris Christie our absentee governor, who promised a chicken in every pothole.
Hillary team don't seek for recount? They just sent me a template to call for a vote audit yesterday!
4
Not sure who sent you a template but HRC's 'team' has NOT asked for these audits. The people who have are all kinds of different people: computer science experts, mathematics geniuses, political science professionals, lawyers. Not all of whom, by the way, are Hillary supporters.
Many of these folks have been advocating auditing of elections for years and when those audits have been done, the ERRORS (not necessarily FRAUD per se) that were revealed were shockingly frequent.
Many of these folks have been advocating auditing of elections for years and when those audits have been done, the ERRORS (not necessarily FRAUD per se) that were revealed were shockingly frequent.
that's funny - I'm a supporter and I did't get one
The NYT really needs to move on. Continued approach is almost as embarrassing as the Clinton News Network - which is now unwatchable to objective/rationale viewers. Readers: Study up on the Electoral College and why it matters. If the total popular vote mattered, don't you think BOTH candidates would have done something different? Suggest you take a break, enjoy the holiday, and then join the other (silent) half of the country that wants to do things better.
14
Why not have an unbiased foreign leader monitor and lead the vote recount?
Someone who has some experience in interfering in American politics and elections via money, media, lobbying and espionage. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Russian President Vladimir Putin are the obvious choices with their shared Eastern European Slavic roots.
Putin has expressed mystified admiration for the ability of the Electoral College to repudiate and nullify the "popular" vote majority in American Presidential elections. No Bolshevik ever had that Founding Father genius political insight during the life of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. Bibi and Vlad can consult with Jimmie Carter on the details.
Someone who has some experience in interfering in American politics and elections via money, media, lobbying and espionage. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Russian President Vladimir Putin are the obvious choices with their shared Eastern European Slavic roots.
Putin has expressed mystified admiration for the ability of the Electoral College to repudiate and nullify the "popular" vote majority in American Presidential elections. No Bolshevik ever had that Founding Father genius political insight during the life of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. Bibi and Vlad can consult with Jimmie Carter on the details.
1
How can your report not include the effort by Jill Stein, who has raised 3 million dollars toward a vote integrity recount?
12
Virginia Carlson
Because the Electoral college has spoken
Because the Electoral college has spoken
Virginia Carlson
There is the constitution.
There is the constitution.
I think the FBI should start an investigation .Comey could write a letter to Trump today.
3
Sure. First complain that stating the vote is rigged is very wrong, then you state it is rigged. Then you keep counting until you get the result you want.
And you get to do the counting. It's who counts the votes that makes the difference.
Democrats are desperate.
And you get to do the counting. It's who counts the votes that makes the difference.
Democrats are desperate.
5
I thought voting fraud was a myth?
8
Voting fraud by individuals is a myth
If there are questions,,, even theoretical questions of the possibility of results alterations,, count one state,, or two. The suggestion of Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Wisconsin would not be amiss to recount.
Do it. Answer the question.
Do it. Answer the question.
37
I'd like to know why all the comments I recommended are now not recommended. NYT, What is going on here?
What happens to find that the Clinton team was behind it? Then what happens?
If we're going to audit PA, MI and WI, let's also audit how many illegal immigrants voted in California, a state that allows illegal immigrants to get driver's licenses and in-state college tuition.
35
Ah, but did they vote, or even try to? Give us the facts on a specific vote, by an illegal immigrant, please, with place voted at. There were plenty of poll watchers present to report any illegalities if necessary.
2
Oh boo hoo -- what's an immigrant- illegal or otherwise - ever done to you but pick your vegetables & fruits; a job you are too good to do. Also, there is no evidence of widespread voter-fraud - except in your head.
1
This makes no sense. All sorts of non citizens hold driver licenses - people in visas, people with work permits, green card holders. Are you saying that all of them can vote ?
1
First off, the polls were not far off. The ones that showed Trump winning were wrong. Clinton won the popular vote by a point. Most polls were very close. A victory in the popular vote and a couple of bucks will get you a watery beer at the local saloon.
Secondly, Trump won DECISIVELY in the Electoral College. If Michigan stays in the Trump column, he will have won 69% of the Electoral College vote. He destroyed Clinton in the flyover states. Here are his margins of victory in percentage points in several of them: Idaho, 31; Montana, 20; Wyoming, 47; North Dakota, 36; South Dakota, 30; Nebraska, 26; Kansas, 21; Oklahoma, 36; Louisiana, 20; Arkansas, 26; Missouri, 19; Mississippi, 18; Alabama, 28; Tennessee, 25; Kentucky, 30; West Virginia, 42; Indiana, 19.
Third: her margin of so-called "victory" in the popular vote nationwide was less than her margin of victory in one state: California.
Donald J. Trump will be President of the United States because he earned it.
Secondly, Trump won DECISIVELY in the Electoral College. If Michigan stays in the Trump column, he will have won 69% of the Electoral College vote. He destroyed Clinton in the flyover states. Here are his margins of victory in percentage points in several of them: Idaho, 31; Montana, 20; Wyoming, 47; North Dakota, 36; South Dakota, 30; Nebraska, 26; Kansas, 21; Oklahoma, 36; Louisiana, 20; Arkansas, 26; Missouri, 19; Mississippi, 18; Alabama, 28; Tennessee, 25; Kentucky, 30; West Virginia, 42; Indiana, 19.
Third: her margin of so-called "victory" in the popular vote nationwide was less than her margin of victory in one state: California.
Donald J. Trump will be President of the United States because he earned it.
30
There is evidence of Russian influence in the Trump campaign - including admissions from the Russians! There were documented hacks of the DNC last summer - and Democrat voter rolls were stolen in 20 states. There was Guilani on a biased fake news program, proclaiming to the world that the Republicans had "things up their sleeves" two days before the Comey disgrace - reopen a closed investigation, which was a lie to begin with? How incredibly convenient. There was Trump saying that he would not deliver a concession speech - as if he knew ahead of time what the result would be. There are counties in Wisconsin with more votes cast than people eligible to vote. There are more "perfect" ballots with all votes cast for one party than seen since 1920. And the constant drip drip of fake WikiLeaks garbage planted by the Russians - and used liberally by Trump at his racists rallies, including falsehoods that were pulled by the Russians, but still used by Trump, oblivious to the fact that he was speaking treason. The financial scandals are still emerging - Trump "forgot" he had 250 registered companies in Russia, he registered 8 news ones in Saudi Arabia during the campaign (and took a $500M loan from that country to fuel a campaign that he continued to claim he was self financing), the Trump University fraud case, the Trump charity that he now admits was never a charity.... the list goes on and on. Earning anything was never Trump's way - steal it, manipulate it, get others to pay.
3
With the help of Comey, Assange and the Russians, slandering his opponent with baseless allegations, and conning and pandering to an uninformed and narrow-minded electorate. No way he gets my respect. He's a malicious fraud and should be in prison for high treason for his inviting the Russians to hack his opponent and sicking the "second amendment people" on her. And where are his tax returns?
And yet...any way you slice it he still lost the popular vote and less than 50% of voters cast their ballots for him. The majority did not want him to be president. Period. He did not earn it. As he himself so eloquently put it ; it's rigged.
2
Of course, there should be a recount! This election result has RIGGED written all over it. The Comey letters, Trump's constant "rigged" refrain, voter intimidation, voter suppression.
Far too many of us are complacent about this slow-moving coup.
Far too many of us are complacent about this slow-moving coup.
46
Trump won.
Electoral College has spoken
Electoral College has spoken
Hey he said it was rigged, people are talking, lots of people are saying it was rigged, we should check it out until we know what's going on....
Trusting Comey was one of Obama's worst character judgments ever.
Clearly there is significant doubt about the legitimacy of the outcome for all the reasons that have be posted. When there is doubt, you must follow the path towards clarity and truth. if you don't you absolve yourself of honesty, and in turn, a legitimate democracy.
37
matthew Rose
please note, we have Electoral College.
please note, we have Electoral College.
The level of hypocrisy on the left is galling.
26
The level of treason on the right will lead to many of them being imprisoned. Yeah!
The deplorable on the right are racist and alt-right.
The level of hypocrisy on the right is more galling. Where's all the protests about the electoral college beating out the will of the people? Oh yeah, situational ethics, moral relativity--you're really all about what you accuse the liberals of being (let's be honest, there is no "left" in this country). It's all good if it works out for you, but wrong if it goes against you. You claim liberals have no sense of right and wrong but here you all are, ready to accept an unearned victory because you can.
Hey, here's an idea: let's take that million or so we're spending EVERY DAY so that Donald, the man's man, can sleep in his own bed and use it for ... the recount!
30
306 electoral votes. So why is it that democrats LOVED the electoral
college when Obama was the one running and won but now they push
for the popular vote ? Really? "We won, get over it" Barrack Obama, 2008.
His words meant something then, but mean even more now.
And yeah, I changed my party to vote for Trump.
Get over it.
college when Obama was the one running and won but now they push
for the popular vote ? Really? "We won, get over it" Barrack Obama, 2008.
His words meant something then, but mean even more now.
And yeah, I changed my party to vote for Trump.
Get over it.
18
Some people have been trying to change the electoral college since Bush stole the election from Gore in 2000. Not that many people love it. Even Mr. Trump says he doesn't like it and was fairly outspoken about it in 2012, when he mistakenly thought Romney had won the popular vote. Reminder: Obama won both the popular and electoral college -- twice.
2
Stop assuming this. Many of us on the left have hated the EC forever. The fact that it's handed the presidency to the losing candidate twice in 16 years is beyond galling. It's immoral and undermines efforts to persuade everyone to vote.
3
You do recall it was TRUMP who had a lot to say a while back in opposition to continuing with the electoral college, right? In fact, it was his voice I first heard on the subject years ago and I remember it because I've thought my whole adult life that it is broken at the very least and needs to be fixed, if not dismantled entirely as it has not functioned as intended for years.
2
Republicans always cheat. That's why they distract, prevaricate, and accuse Dems of doing it. Recount those votes! DO IT!
36
There is nothing Donald Trump wouldn't do to win -- including stealing! Recount! Recount!! Recount!!!
36
In this NYT piece from Nov. 6, one paragraph puzzled me and filled me with apprehension just before the election:
(re: Inside Donald Trump's Last Stand)
". . . And they know that his chances of winning the election are iffy: . . . But they maintain that there is unseen money and muscle behind Mr. Trump’s political operation — and a level of sophistication that outsiders, and people who have run traditional campaigns, cannot fully appreciate."
"Unseen money and muscle"? "political operation . . . sophistication that outsiders cannot appreciate"???
Greg Palast has some answers http://www.gregpalast.com/
(re: Inside Donald Trump's Last Stand)
". . . And they know that his chances of winning the election are iffy: . . . But they maintain that there is unseen money and muscle behind Mr. Trump’s political operation — and a level of sophistication that outsiders, and people who have run traditional campaigns, cannot fully appreciate."
"Unseen money and muscle"? "political operation . . . sophistication that outsiders cannot appreciate"???
Greg Palast has some answers http://www.gregpalast.com/
12
Given Trump's narrow margins of victory, the feasibility of hacking ballot opscan algorithms, and the life and death importance of electing the correct president, a vote audit is imperative. Any scientist conducting a survey that had results like this would go back and review a random sample of the paper ballots to see if the results matched the opscan results. objectively, it's the right way to handle data. AUDIT THE VOTE.
26
There is no paper trail in the abjectly farcical state of Pennsylvania.
Say a Thanksgiving prayer for Jill Stein who believes every vote counts. Not mentioned here is the hundreds of thousands purged votes due the GOP crosscheck program . Over 500,000 in Michigan alone. See www.gregpalast.com and http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/features/the-gops-stealth-war-again.... In indiana , Mike Pence had state troopers seize and invalidate 45,000 voter registrations.See www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/mike-pence-voter-suppression_us_58027076e4b...
Trump was right - elections was rigged but in his favor.
Trump was right - elections was rigged but in his favor.
28
Green Party Jill Stein is leading this recount!!!
11
Recount! Don't go the way of Gore - that's why we are in this mess today!
24
john edelmann
See Constitution and Electoral College vote. Trump won.
See Constitution and Electoral College vote. Trump won.
Jill Stein is pushing for a recount and so far has raised funds to cover a Wisconsin recount. Maybe the Times should hire me as a reporter???
13
Confused why Jill Stein isn't even mentioned in this article. She has made public her request for recounts in all three states and already raised over $2M in 12 hours to do so. This news has been reported in most other major news outlets ...
22
Oh my, poor Jill Stein still upset with not being allowed to participate in the presidential debates: her push-back is to play the role of Ralph Nader as in Gore versus Bush. Jill _ you can't get elected in your own state - so forget about the rest of the U.S. ever voting for you as president. However, I suspect the real instigator in this mess is Elizabeth Warren, Massachusetts Senator: Now, here's an agitator who could and would propel Dr. Stein into this foolishness but the person who benefits stays in the shadows.
3
Who is giving JS the money?
Considering she could only raise $3.5 million from Jan 2015 through October 2016, it seems kind of suspicious.
Is Jill Stein now shiling for corrupt Hillary?
http://www.fec.gov/fecviewer/CandidateCommitteeDetail.do?candidateCommit...
Considering she could only raise $3.5 million from Jan 2015 through October 2016, it seems kind of suspicious.
Is Jill Stein now shiling for corrupt Hillary?
http://www.fec.gov/fecviewer/CandidateCommitteeDetail.do?candidateCommit...
1
Yes, yes, yes, yes.
16
Nan Rabinowitz
See Constitution and Electoral College vote.
See Constitution and Electoral College vote.
Why is an article about the hotelier's Palm Beach neighbors more prominent on the front page than this story? NYT, what are you doing????
37
Too hilarious. Let's see how many NYT readers can have a rational response to this headline after a hypothetical Clinton win, "Trump Supporters Call for Vote Recount." Okay, let's hear your responses. Crickets? Silence? Hypocrites. I am still waiting.
20
Wrong, just because Trump would do anything to win doesn't mean that such a close election shouldn't be reviewed regardless of who won. Sorry, spare me the hypocrites charge when only Trump claimed before the vote that it would be rigged only if he lost. Does that comment mean it was rigged so he won? Maybe it's just the incompetence of some of the officials like in Florida in 2000 giving Bush the election.
2
waiting for an answer to a hypothetical question?
Nothing wrong with a recount, particularly when there are statistical anomalies and the vote is tight.
McCrory can have his recount, no problem.
McCrory can have his recount, no problem.
2
The Greens are doing it. Donate now! They already have enough for the filing fees in all three states. Go Greens!
https://jillstein.nationbuilder.com/recount
https://jillstein.nationbuilder.com/recount
30
Several people have written about Jill Stein here. This is the first statesman-like action she has taken that I know about. Bravo for her. I have a new respect for her. But I want to add that it is too bad she couldn't have been less egotistical and selfish before the election. She and her movement would have had the undying respect of many more people if she had bowed out early on and taken her name out of the running. Yes, this election was that important and it would have shown that she valued the health of the nation over her own idealistic positions. It might not have turned out with HRC winning anyway, but it would have been, at the very least, one less contributor to divisiveness and animosity.
1
Jill Stein has run for president for as long as I can remember - and - I think she has also entered every election in Massachusetts:
But this nonsense about a recount is probably instigated by Bill McKibben the founder of 350.org. In 2009, Bill McKibbon bragged his 350.org's organization coordinated 5,200 simultaneous demonstrations in 181 countries. In 2010, McKibben claims 350.org conceived the 10/10/10 Global Work Party, which convened more than 7,000 events in 188 countries. The proud antagonist brags he led the environmental campaign against the proposed Keystone XL pipeline project. It was one of the largest civil disobedience actions in America for decades.
Bill McKibbon is a man who would like nothing better than to be able to claim his role in this farce - but, you can bet he will stay in the shadows rather than take credit unless he achieves his goal to X out President elect Donald Trump because of his opposition to the civil disobedience that is occurring against pipelines projects. President-elect Trump is willing to support the oil and gas pipelines which is giving the angst to radical environmentalists.
But this nonsense about a recount is probably instigated by Bill McKibben the founder of 350.org. In 2009, Bill McKibbon bragged his 350.org's organization coordinated 5,200 simultaneous demonstrations in 181 countries. In 2010, McKibben claims 350.org conceived the 10/10/10 Global Work Party, which convened more than 7,000 events in 188 countries. The proud antagonist brags he led the environmental campaign against the proposed Keystone XL pipeline project. It was one of the largest civil disobedience actions in America for decades.
Bill McKibbon is a man who would like nothing better than to be able to claim his role in this farce - but, you can bet he will stay in the shadows rather than take credit unless he achieves his goal to X out President elect Donald Trump because of his opposition to the civil disobedience that is occurring against pipelines projects. President-elect Trump is willing to support the oil and gas pipelines which is giving the angst to radical environmentalists.
Bravo!
A recount? great idea. This time, let's make it legal. Let's take away all of those illegals that voted. Let's take away all of those dead that voted. Let's audit in particular places like... Chicago, Philadelphia, etc. where Republican votes where thrown away. Let's tell these crazies that continue the protests that Clinton was a horrible candidate and they should thank their lucky stars that she lost. In fact, let's tell the NYT's and the media to play it fair this time. Also, tell the NYT's readers and bloggers to grow up! Clinton lost!
29
Yup, and for each of those fake complaints you have, let's have the hundreds (thouands) of votes you used them to prevent. Let's be completely fair, and let every real person who wants to vote vote, without all the lies about why poor people have to jump through hoops, and even then you can remove them from the voter lists if you can find a pretext, so when they show up where they've always voted, suddenly you have found a way to treat them as less entitled to vote than you are.
20
RE: "Clinton lost!"
But she WON the popular vote by 2 million! And with charges of voter suppression, possible vote tampering, this is not a clear cut election.
But she WON the popular vote by 2 million! And with charges of voter suppression, possible vote tampering, this is not a clear cut election.
17
Voter suppression? Well years ago, poll taxes did contribute to voter suppression. But tell me why it is voter suppression to require id and proof of age before allowing somebody to vote? That's the part that makes no sense to me. And a recount will not do anything about voter suppression and there is little reason to believe errors were made in actually counting the votes.
3
And while you're at it, let's count those chads.
10
This is hilarious! For years. The democrats and the NYT have ridiculed the notion that there "is no voter fraud!" And now god see screaming for a recount. I would suggest that a recount first be held in the sanctuary state of CA where it has been widely reported that voter Fraud was rampant. Please, give it a rest.
25
Again, I will correct - as I always do. Voter fraud is not the same as tampering with equipment, hacking or suppressing the vote. There is virtually no voter fraud. This is what the "hilarious" Democrats have been saying. The ill-informed, mis-informed and dis-infomed Republicans do not seem to know the difference or make any efforts at all in learning the facts. Apparently it is just fine to repeat what you've heard regardless of whether there is evidence or not.
To clarify further, most people don't believe there was a massive problem, but the fact that there is some doubt, some questions, some oddities suggests it should be investigated. A genuine statesman who put his country first would not object. A winner who had nothing to fear about the legitimacy of the vote would welcome it. One would think that he and his supporters would want to put any doubt to rest.
To clarify further, most people don't believe there was a massive problem, but the fact that there is some doubt, some questions, some oddities suggests it should be investigated. A genuine statesman who put his country first would not object. A winner who had nothing to fear about the legitimacy of the vote would welcome it. One would think that he and his supporters would want to put any doubt to rest.
5
President Obama needs to demand a recount for this country and the future of Democracy. We need this election verified more than any other election that has taken place. Homeland security cannot validate the voting process. I respect their job but they are not IT Wizards. So every election from now on will have the "FBI/Homeland Security Seal" wink wink? A Banana Republic has surely taken hold.......
21
POTUS needs to find a job.
He doesn't have the authority. Maybe the governors of the states would...but look at who they are. Don't hold your breath.
As elections have been rigged in other countries, why are we so smug to think it cannot happen here? Go, Jill!!!
31
I'm going to join others TODAY to demand a recount in Wisconsin.
28
Mr. Trump already told us the election is rigged. We didn't listen, he was telling us it was rigged for him.
28
Look into "Crosscheck", reported on by Greg Palast. Republican voter suppression tactics have gone way too far this time. They purged over a million votes, deciding multiple battleground states for Trump. On what basis? Names being similar, that happen to look like they are names of minorities. Based on that, they conclude voter fraud.
Crosscheck in action:
Trump victory margin in Michigan: 13,107
Michigan Crosscheck purge list: 449,922
Trump victory margin in Arizona: 85,257
Arizona Crosscheck purge list: 270,824
Trump victory margin in North Carolina: 177,008
North Carolina Crosscheck purge list: 589,393
Crosscheck in action:
Trump victory margin in Michigan: 13,107
Michigan Crosscheck purge list: 449,922
Trump victory margin in Arizona: 85,257
Arizona Crosscheck purge list: 270,824
Trump victory margin in North Carolina: 177,008
North Carolina Crosscheck purge list: 589,393
38
Thanks for the reminder of the work Palast is doing. Here's a link for those interested:
http://www.gregpalast.com/election-stolen-heres/
http://www.gregpalast.com/election-stolen-heres/
There's much more evidence that the voting machines were hacked in the Democratic primaries than in the general election. Hillary consistently outperformed in precincts with electronic voting and no paper ballots.
https://www.facebook.com/notes/election-justice-usa/democracy-lost-a-rep...
https://www.facebook.com/notes/election-justice-usa/democracy-lost-a-rep...
11
FYI - Facebook is not a reputable news source. It is social media
Demand an audit!
Donald Trump claimed the system was rigged.
Maybe he knew something, after all.
Donald Trump claimed the system was rigged.
Maybe he knew something, after all.
45
We have known since bush/gore that there are significant vulnerabilities in with the electronic voting systems. We also know that Russia hacked multiple state election boards, the DNC and the Clinton campaign. Yet, it seems that we still weren't prepared with common sense checks and balances built into the system to verify voting results. AMERICAN CAN DO BETTER.
FYI, I am an American living in London and this story was featured by the BBC and other mainstream media sources a full 24 hours before the NYT managed to address it. We are talking about legitimate concerns regarding another nation tampering with our democratic process. Why the delay?
FYI, I am an American living in London and this story was featured by the BBC and other mainstream media sources a full 24 hours before the NYT managed to address it. We are talking about legitimate concerns regarding another nation tampering with our democratic process. Why the delay?
58
I am wondering the same thing. Why is The NY Times not reporting this? I have checked back repeatedly throughout the day- for 12 hours now- to see if they have updated this article to include news of Jill Stein's recount fundraising and- nothing. The money is pouring in to her site so people are finding out about it from other sources. Wonder why there is just ZERO mention of this here?
The Guardian had the story about Jill Stein raising funds for the recounts long before any NYT recounts story. Trump kept insisting that the election was rigged; let's double check these three states which appear to have anomalies.
I do not think that Hillary Clinton, who has over two million more Popular Votes [to count] should have lost the Election. Yes I do believe that there should be a recount, since that antiquated Electoral College system is still in use over 200 years after it became the 12th. amendment! We are the ONLY Democratic country in the world to elect a President without the Popular Vote! It should be revoked, but, that is a very difficult process. The more feisable answer in with the States. They could retain the delegate votes until the states popular vote is established and THEN release their delegate count. This idea is in work by a group that has approximately [I believe] twenty States in agreement with this action. We must end this UNDEMOCRATIC system before the next election.
32
I agree that the electoral college system is outdated and unfair. I voted for Hillary who has won the popular vote by two million votes and actually "lost" the election. I feel my vote went right down the toilet.
1
Hillary please challenge the result of these two States!!!!!!
21
Just like with Gore, something's rotten in Denmark. With Trump, anything is possible. He is a total creep.
46
I definitely like what my stocks did this week....I think we should accept results, give him a chance and move on....dwelling on this is only further dividing our fragmented nation
17
Give him a chance to do what exactly? Considering the extremist's he already has lined up to run his administration I'd rather not give him the benefit of the doubt or the chance to damage this country for generation's to come.
no recount because stocks are up? This does not sound logical.
Jill Stein ran separately and split some of the votes. She could have dropped out and endorsed Hillary and ask her supporters to vote Hillary. Now she looks like a hypocrite and just put on a show. If it does go for a recount, it will be challenged by Trump and so on. Hillary had already concede to Trump. The whole issue goes to court. What if the matter drag past 21 January.
Many people do not understand the electoral votes. It is STANDARD SCORE or Z-Score. Many may not have high school math but Stein flunk math in high school.
Many people do not understand the electoral votes. It is STANDARD SCORE or Z-Score. Many may not have high school math but Stein flunk math in high school.
8
Cry me a river. Just accept that your candidate lost and move on with your life.
31
Thanks. I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels this way. Hillary knows she lost and she's now back in Chappaqua curled up with that good book. I think deep down Hillary Clinton is relieved that the political part of her life is finally over. She's moved on--why can't the Times or the bloggers take the hint and follow her example?
You demand that Trump support a recount even to initiate one . My question is this . I wonder if those who are insisting on a recount also support voter
I. D . s ?
I. D . s ?
7
""..exxperts have suggested that Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin should manually...""
If Clinton had won and FOX reported ''..experts suggest a recount''' the majority of Clinton supporters and liberal media outlets would be ridiculing and calling those ''experts'' nothing more than politically motivated. The hypocrisy of the left is mind numbing.
If Clinton had won and FOX reported ''..experts suggest a recount''' the majority of Clinton supporters and liberal media outlets would be ridiculing and calling those ''experts'' nothing more than politically motivated. The hypocrisy of the left is mind numbing.
17
Oh, please. There are definitely fishy things here, not just a recount because she (supposedly) lost. There are districts where there were more votes counted for Trump than there are registered voters. In Florida, she was ahead substantially on the eve of election day, with a large percentage of voters having voted already. Trump would have had to win by HUGE margins in election day voters to take Florida. That's suspicious, too. Plus we know there was hacking into some states' systems ahead of time (probably by Russia). Not to mention active voter suppression efforts targeting minorities done by the Republicans and even boasted about by Trump's campaign people. This is not a normal election, and this is not just sour grapes. The hypocrisy runs the other way.
Trump is the one who suggested the election was rigged, maybe like a stopped clock Trump can be right twice a day and was on this one. Only rigged for his win not hers. No hypocrisy from the left here, just the right's contention that its rigged only if we lose and not when we "win".
Kinda like the right, hey. Bottom line the Clinton campaign isn't calling for any recounts--I can imagine what the Trump people would be doing if things were reversed. DJT will be the next President and man I am so psyched for 2020 when we "liberals" can right the ship.
Clinton was ahead and projected to win in almost every poll. She is winning the popular vote by more than 2 MILLION votes. The vote counts difference in Michigan and Wisconsin, Pennsylvania are SO close.
Of course there should be a re-count.
Of course there should be a re-count.
42
It's insane we do not do a manual count of all ballots as a matter of course. This THE CENTRAL act of civic participation. It's inexcusable that we are too lazy and cheap to insure that each vote is counted as best we can.
26
J
See the Constitution. Electoral College. Trump won.
See the Constitution. Electoral College. Trump won.
Let's do it Hillary. At this point you have nothing to lose. As a republican Jewish woman who fears for her safety under trump, I say "we need you." Let's do it!!!
45
lori kirman
Constitution. Electoral College. Trump won.
Constitution. Electoral College. Trump won.
You're another paranoid liberal with a ridiculous suggestion.
Why is this not bigger news? Especially Clinton getting over 2 million more votes than Trump?
29
Is this any way to run an election? You're darn right it's not. A government of the people and for the people should be decided BY the people...and not by state borders. As the Bard would say, "There is something rotten in the state of Denmark." Indeed there is.
23
Remember the stutz net virus? All it took was secretly swapping flash drives and thousands of Iranian turbines were destroyed! We did that! The Russians have hacked us a number of times. Yet voting machines without paper back up are still being used?! Audits in these times should be automatic!
20
And yet nobody on the left was worried about a Stuxnet type of attack on voting machines until Hillary lost. "I lost, therefore the other side cheated." That's your argument, isn't it?
It is incomprehensible how a person can win the popular vote by MILLIONS of votes yet lose the election. As long as the electoral college and system that can be manipulated, hacked, and/or sabotaged exists, so too will voter fraud flourish We saw this in 2000 when Rove and his henchmen stole the FL election that placed the worst president in the annals of the American presidency into the White House, his follies from which this country is still reeling as well as suffering a considerable toll of wasted young American lives and trillions of squandered tax dollars. The votes should be counted and if Ms. Clinton won by more than 2 million votes Mr. Trump should be thrown out of the White House and the person America REALLY voted for swept in.
27
Anabelle, Obama is the worst president ever. not Bush.
You want the Electoral College eliminated? I agree, lets replace it with each state has one vote. Whoever receives the most votes in a state that state casts 1 vote for the winner. If that were the case then trump would have won 30 to 20. They would be forced to campaign in every state. I think someone should introduce this in the senate to combat Boxer’s bill.
If it is possible to eliminate the Electoral College by house and senate vote, then my proposal would win and republicans would never lose another election. So Anabelle, is that really what you want?
You want the Electoral College eliminated? I agree, lets replace it with each state has one vote. Whoever receives the most votes in a state that state casts 1 vote for the winner. If that were the case then trump would have won 30 to 20. They would be forced to campaign in every state. I think someone should introduce this in the senate to combat Boxer’s bill.
If it is possible to eliminate the Electoral College by house and senate vote, then my proposal would win and republicans would never lose another election. So Anabelle, is that really what you want?
5
If those millions of votes come from California or New York state and the US uses the electoral college system, it's possible. Whether the system is fair is another question.
3
First, are you a veteran of the United States military? If so, how could you claim so many lives American lives were wasted? As a veteran, I understand war is ugly. However, words can't describe the reactions Iraqi children receiving warm food and fresh water. Or the look of gratification when a wound or injury is cared for by American soldiers, the "infidels." If we consider lives of soldiers lost in battle a waste then they have died in vain. Hillary has no one to blame except herself. She failed her party by assuming ignorance of the people would guaranteed her victory. We'll the people have spoken, it you chose not to accept the people's decision than find a new country that will coddle you, heed your neck and call, and promotes corruption over democracy.
The left fought tooth and nail against voter ID laws in large part by arguing that there has been neighbor evidence of voter fraud. Then you lost, and now the battle cry is...voter fraud.
You're furious because you should move on and accept it? It stems from the entitled, everyone-gets-a-trophy mentality creating a generation of tantrum--throwing sore losers. Move on. Accept it.
You're furious because you should move on and accept it? It stems from the entitled, everyone-gets-a-trophy mentality creating a generation of tantrum--throwing sore losers. Move on. Accept it.
20
Way to completely miss the point. The Dems aren't accusing people of illegitimately voting (the republican fantasy voter fraud). There is evidence that people's legitimate votes weren't counted. This is something Dems have been saying all along. Get the difference?
This whole election thing is sooo two weeks ago...
12
Sooooo's the constitution.
Seems as if life does not go on in the NYT commentariat.
1
Trump calls election rigged and everyone defends the process. So how could we question the results now?Diabolical !
4
You can donate to Jill Stein if you want the recount, she's raised an unbelievable amount so far.
18
13
Surpring how Fake News is on the front page of the New York Times. According to their logic, Indiana should have went to Clinton because it is next to Illinois.
5
The Natzi era Trump must be kept out. He would have no qualms about cheating. A recount is necessary
22
And don't stop there.
What a mess!
3
So the recount in the three states, PA, WI and MI. The issue will be resolved to the satisfaction of everyone and life will go on.
11
If Trump has lost or won the popular vote but lost the electoral college does anyone doubt Republicans would be screaming "recount."
And it wouldn't stop until the next election in 2020.
And it wouldn't stop until the next election in 2020.
90
That would be an "unknowable" as someone once said, not that long ago.
He was to have had his own station and the miitia was in place. This is like Civil War Modern times.
Even Trump couldn't believe he won. The recount must happen. Why aren't we seeing more press on this issue?
81
Because they don't believe it, but then the press thought Trump would be trounced.
1
Let's change/amend the constitution, but maybe now because we will give a voice to the disenfranchised.
President-elect Donald Trump appears not to assume anything - which is more than HRC who had a huge, huge party organized in advance for her win. She had already started with organizing her transition team! Few people have that degree of arrogance that they can't contemplate a loss.
There is absolutely no proof the Russians or the men from Mars hacked the U.S. ballot machines, and furthermore if the issue of the accuracy of the ballot machines has been known for decades - WHY, didn't the Democrat report the problem BEFORE the presidential election - why now? Does it have anything to do with 'WHO' won? You think -that's the issue?
There is absolutely no proof the Russians or the men from Mars hacked the U.S. ballot machines, and furthermore if the issue of the accuracy of the ballot machines has been known for decades - WHY, didn't the Democrat report the problem BEFORE the presidential election - why now? Does it have anything to do with 'WHO' won? You think -that's the issue?
The emails..hacked or not..were not fabrications. They accurately described a criminal enterprise being conducted by amoral people for the purpose of personal enrichment. They should all go to jail. Even their Media fixed open book tests couldn't overcome the justified outrage of decent folks.
22
"Decent folks?" I have a few other epithets by which I would categorize your "decent folks." That can wait, however, as I digress upon the theme of the Left's colossal naiveté in thinking it could appeal to rustic sorts back in the Dust Bowl days -- all one needs to do is read Steinbeck to realize those fools suffer from terminal ignorance hard-wired in their brains, and that any attempt to enlighten them is a waste of time.
Oh, do you mean the thousands of emails Trump deleted against court order?
What you wrote is a fabrication.
I think they should just keep on recounting over and over and over again for the next 4 years.
They should then publish the results again and again as well to remind Americans how stupid they were.
They should then publish the results again and again as well to remind Americans how stupid they were.
21
oh don't worry, they'll be getting near daily reminders for the next 4 years, when this disaster really starts to unfold on the whole country.
1
For the sake of the argument, let’s give Wisconsin and Michigan to Hillary Clinton. That leaves Trump with 280 electoral votes.
Let’s move to Pennsylvania where so far 5,900,299 votes were counted. Trump has a lead of 68,000 votes.
1. Pennsylvania voting machines leave no paper trail. Therefore, there can be no recount.
2. Since each machine is a plug in stand- alone boot built in the early eighties it is as hack proof as a washing machine built in those years.
3. The voting machines are randomly verified prior to their use.
It would have to be a revote and there is no reason for a revote other than the fact that Trump won and Hillary lost. End of story.
Let’s move to Pennsylvania where so far 5,900,299 votes were counted. Trump has a lead of 68,000 votes.
1. Pennsylvania voting machines leave no paper trail. Therefore, there can be no recount.
2. Since each machine is a plug in stand- alone boot built in the early eighties it is as hack proof as a washing machine built in those years.
3. The voting machines are randomly verified prior to their use.
It would have to be a revote and there is no reason for a revote other than the fact that Trump won and Hillary lost. End of story.
20
The point is, as Stein explains, to protect the integrity of our democratic voting system
1
That's why there should always be a paper trail.
Let's convince 11 "faithless Electors" will do the right thing for the nation and the planet and cast their vote for Clinton. More vigorous investigations by DOJ, FBI, NYT, Washington Post, etc. must take place before Dec. 19 to expose Trump as a fascist Manchurian candidate for a Russian takeover of our country.
Although I fear it will not amount to anything concrete, I gave my little contribution to the recount effort. At the very least, keeping the focus on this underscores and keeps in the public eye the very real fact that Trump has no mandate. Would be an amazing denouement to the craziest year if it actually turned this election around! (no hopes though...)
24
And where did Stein raise that much money? George Soros spent hundreds of millions trying to get Hillary in and he is not a good loser. If someone takes a look, I suspect they will see his hand in all this.
12
You'll see my hand, too. I donated $29. And if you watched the tally go up, you'll see it go up small increments at a time. If two million more people voted for her than voted for Trump, there are a lot of us out here who are still shaking our heads over the FBI collusion, Wikileaks, Russia, the polls, the exit polls, Trump carrying on about rigging. Put that together with a little computer savvy and it is not that far a stretch to think that there very well might have been some if all else fails tinkering, especially in states where the election apparatus is in the hands of the GOP.
Oh, peelezzz, I have donated a few dollars as have most members of my family and we are not rich people.
From the little people like me and other NYT readers
Imagine what Trump and his supporters would have done, what would still be doing, if the circumstances of the election were reversed, if...
• Trump had won by the popular vote by over 2 million
• Trump had been consistently leading in most swing state polls
• If exit polls showed him winning in swing states, before losing by razor thin margins, with reported anomalies
• If scores of his voters had been purged/suppressed by Democratic secretaries of state in those same states (Operation Crosscheck, etc)
• If Hillary had refused to release her taxes, shielding deep conflicts of interest until after the election
• If the FBI had launched a bogus investigation of Trump in the election homestretch, in a widely condemned, unprecedented breach of protocol?
• If meanwhile, the FBI had postponed a criminal investigation of the ties to Russia of his opponent’s campaign (as they did with Paul Manafort, Trump's former campaign chair)
• If the Russians had hacked Trump's campaign and the RNC, and released stolen communications over the fall
• If hundreds of fake news stories about him had been placed on Facebook
I'd honestly understand if Trump were objecting now, and calling for recounts and investigations if all those things had been done to his campaign. Democracy is on the line. If we let all this slide, it will happen again, and even more people will get cynical and walk away. So, yes, recount and #audithevote!
• Trump had won by the popular vote by over 2 million
• Trump had been consistently leading in most swing state polls
• If exit polls showed him winning in swing states, before losing by razor thin margins, with reported anomalies
• If scores of his voters had been purged/suppressed by Democratic secretaries of state in those same states (Operation Crosscheck, etc)
• If Hillary had refused to release her taxes, shielding deep conflicts of interest until after the election
• If the FBI had launched a bogus investigation of Trump in the election homestretch, in a widely condemned, unprecedented breach of protocol?
• If meanwhile, the FBI had postponed a criminal investigation of the ties to Russia of his opponent’s campaign (as they did with Paul Manafort, Trump's former campaign chair)
• If the Russians had hacked Trump's campaign and the RNC, and released stolen communications over the fall
• If hundreds of fake news stories about him had been placed on Facebook
I'd honestly understand if Trump were objecting now, and calling for recounts and investigations if all those things had been done to his campaign. Democracy is on the line. If we let all this slide, it will happen again, and even more people will get cynical and walk away. So, yes, recount and #audithevote!
72
Bravo! You can add to the list his stonewalling on tax returns and refusal to create a true blind trust so we will never know his conflicts of interest that led to his cozy relations with Putin and Russia nor how he and his family will benefit.
All of these issues must be vigorously investigated NOW before Dec. 19.
All of these issues must be vigorously investigated NOW before Dec. 19.
1
Hahaha! Seriously? You know for people who claim they are sooo much more intelligent than the rest of us you are really clueless. Why do you think her royal hideousness hasn't been whining day and night like you? Because she knows it is pointless A. There was no hacking, stolen ballots, little green men voting then mysteriously vanishing, etc. B. The house will not put Killary in the white house no matter how much you whine, scream and stomp your little feet. Deal with it snowflake! We have rejected your grinning demon and her vile regime!
I come from Eu. I am well educated conserning politics and ideologies like communism and nazism. I know how they operate. Its terrible, how elections were rigged and the best people were persecuted. The people, who were promising, that they work for the common man and against "imperialists" and so on were the worst kind. Demagogues seduce people.
The election results should not be taken for granted. If you can check them, do it!!! Even if it is nothing, you can still be proud that you did something to defend democracy. And when another elections will come, that vote checking in past will discourage someone from even thinking about cheating.
Putin is ex/kgb officer. He worked under soviet union and worked with communists. He probably knows all dirty tricks.
That mr. Trump likes Putin is just not good.
The election results should be checked, just to be sure. What if the elections were rigged and you dd not file for recount when you had the legal opportunity to do so?
I think that is in both sides interest, that the elections are fair and checked to be sure.
The election results should not be taken for granted. If you can check them, do it!!! Even if it is nothing, you can still be proud that you did something to defend democracy. And when another elections will come, that vote checking in past will discourage someone from even thinking about cheating.
Putin is ex/kgb officer. He worked under soviet union and worked with communists. He probably knows all dirty tricks.
That mr. Trump likes Putin is just not good.
The election results should be checked, just to be sure. What if the elections were rigged and you dd not file for recount when you had the legal opportunity to do so?
I think that is in both sides interest, that the elections are fair and checked to be sure.
44
It's simple for me. To satisfy those of us who are beyond confounded as to how all the pollsters could be so, so wrong, what is wrong with a recount. You bet the other side would ask for one.
Let's get on it. The people really have spoken with the popular vote.
Let's get on it. The people really have spoken with the popular vote.
44
The pollsters were wrong for the same reason the Times and its "regulars" were wrong. They were marshaling support for the outcome they desired...
2,000,000 votes. That's nothing to ignore.
“Left-wing conspiracy theories of vote rigging” are “pathetic,” Dave Wasserman of the Cook Political Report" - It's not pathetic. The outcome is. If we're going to have to live through this, it's ok to be sure and certain and exhaust every resource to insure accuracy. Who pays Mr Wasserman?
20
The hacks and the leaks are more significant, but this is a useful exercise.
All Presidential elections should be subject to INDEPENDENT recounts.
When the governor of Florida is your brother or the head of your SuperPAC, strange things happen ...
All Presidential elections should be subject to INDEPENDENT recounts.
When the governor of Florida is your brother or the head of your SuperPAC, strange things happen ...
The Clinton Foundation has political operatives on their tax-free, foreign funded foundation. Bill and Hill hired Sydney Blumenthal after President Obama said no.
Well, why not? Trump would be doing the same thing and more had he lost. He threatened as much.
Also, wouldn't it be interesting if, when the electoral college meets to formerly cast their votes, a few of them broke ranks and cast their votes in line with the popular vote?
Also, wouldn't it be interesting if, when the electoral college meets to formerly cast their votes, a few of them broke ranks and cast their votes in line with the popular vote?
32
The electors of the Electoral college were envisioned by the Founding Fathers as independent selectors who could act as a check on the potential election of a demagogue or unqualified person as President. The framers of the Constitution were deeply suspicious of the popular vote.
1
Yes, it would be amazing if California and New York electoral colleges switched!
They don't have that kind of spine.
Talking of hacking do we all remember When Donald Trump proclaimed that maybe there was NO hacking by Russia, against the consensus of the American intelligence community and that worried the ranking member of the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence. “If he was willing to disregard the intelligence community and contradict it to his benefit during the campaign, will he do so as president?” said Rep. Adam Schiff, D-Calif. “Time alone will tell, but there are, I think, grave concerns about that and note Director of National Intelligence James Clapper reiterated that the IC believes that Russia meddled in the recent American election. “There is substantial concern about whether he respects, one, the process and, two, the personnel of the IC, especially when they tell him things that he doesn’t want to hear,” the lawmaker said. “As DNI Clapper said, there is truly no question that Russia meddled.” and strange when in the news today Trump doesn't seem to want to concern himself with his countries national security and listen to briefings ?
16
I am okay with a recount. But all those liberals and Hillary who chastised Donald repeatedly for not saying he will not challenge the result if he loses, need to come around and say a SORRY. In future elections let us not ask any candidate whether he/she will accept the result. The reality is that the loser always look for ways to challenge.
13
DT said he would consider any vote that he didn't win rigged. This is NOT that. This is a call for a recount not based on the fact that HRC didn't win, but on things like some districts mysteriously producing more votes for Trump than they have voters in those districts, the rarity of every single poll being this wrong, intentional voter suppression efforts by Trump's campaign (even bragged about) and the Republican party in general, reports of dramatically different results in neighboring districts based on whether the voting was on paper or on screen, etc. If none of this had been happening, we would not be calling for a recount. On the other hand, the Republican governor of North Carolina, with none of these factors present, is calling foul just because he didn't win.
But Trump was for challenging the results if he lost—which he also reinforced by suggesting that his people volunteer to be poll monitors—before he was against it, a pattern continued to now and I'll bet onwards.
Trump was saying voter fraud not hacking. No evidence of voter fraud.
Never in my voting lifetime have there been so many valid issues associated with the fairness and accuracy of the results of a presidential election. Please everybody give this recount your support. Please, New York Times reporters and editorial board, give this a fair share of your measured attention, news budget and independent (that is, not relying on outside organizations for data) fact-based research.
61
These recounts absolutely need to be done to prove the election's outcome beyond any reasonable doubt and to uncover any wrongdoing or tampering with the voting system. Do you think for a nanosecond with the Republicans in the same position they would not be responding in a similar fashion? There would be an outcry from Trump. Every man woman and child they could drum up would be out on the streets demanding a recount. There would be a Koch brother sponsored hand count done of every single ballot! Are the Dems on Valium? What is "going on"? There is tragically too much at stake for the future of the country from this election to play the magnanimous loser in all of this. Trump challenged the system himself saying that if he would lose, the system "must be rigged". Let's find out for all eternity if the election was really "rigged" or not. Then move on. Let's fight this tooth and nail. No, Mr. Giuliani we're not a bunch of "cry babies". You all know what a few votes did to create the debacle of 2000 and it's fallout of forcing an Administration upon us via the Supreme Court that consequently launched the country into x-number of regional wars, tanked the economy and then hobbled Pres. Obama later in everything he attempted to undertake. Dems simply rolled over. Why is this being taken so lightly by the "Establishment" Dems and the Clinton campaign? If there is a gap small enough to warrant an official recount, IT MUST BE DONE!
47
Democrats "rolled over" by not going to the polls. The media assured a big Clinton victory and they sat on their hands. It's Trump for the next 8 years, three supreme court justices and a war or two or three.
1
what will be proved? That Hillary is honest and not really a carpetbagger and that she was never ever a Goldwater water carrier?
Clinton has turned out to be a lousy champion. She was/is too eager to concede to this seizure of power by the nobility. I supported her but it's clear to me now that Sanders was a guy with far more fight in him.
17
Hillary's health is so fragile she jumped at the chance to walk away, her heart was just not in it and Bill wanted out big time
As a liberal, there would be a certain comfort in believing that the supposed "hacking" could be true, but we must consider this with the utmost of skepticism. If the left is to maintain a moral high ground over "the vote is rigged!" and other such nonsense, we have to be very, very careful how we proceed here. I don't like the fact that Donald Trump was elected, or the fact that Hillary won the popular vote but not the electoral vote, but--barring extraordinary evidence to the contrary, which so far isn't available--I must live with it.
By the current rules of the game she lost, fair and square. It's time to move on.
By the current rules of the game she lost, fair and square. It's time to move on.
17
That may be true, but consider other places where this has happened. Trump admires Putin and no one loves a rigged election more than him.
Feel free to move on. The rest of us what a recount!
Trump supporters sure do not want a recount and a huge number of Clinton supporters do not have the stomach for it or maybe their intuition tells them it could shred the country, not just in two, but in to pieces that might never fit back together.
5
If we truly to not have the stomach to count the votes, then we should just call ourselves the old Soviet Union and do away with the pretense of elections altogether.
1
Read about the election of 1876 and 1880. If those, along with 2000, didn't shred the country apart, I doubt a recount in a few state will shred us this time. And, we're not shredded after the Reoublicans spent 8 years trying to delegitimize a president elected by the MAJORITY of voters.
1. The pre-election polls were seriously wrong.
2. The exit polls were seriously wrong.
3. Hacking.
4. The importance of ensuring that the winning candidate actually becomes president.
5. Democracy.
All kinds of excellent reasons to recount.
2. The exit polls were seriously wrong.
3. Hacking.
4. The importance of ensuring that the winning candidate actually becomes president.
5. Democracy.
All kinds of excellent reasons to recount.
39
You forgot the most important reason: you are unhappy with the result. This is a child's logic.
Honestly, this election has caused people so much pain and fear that at this point I welcome any kind of effort to thwart Trump and his cabinet choices. Let people have some hope.
28
That's not how our system works cupcake. Just rub some ointment on the butthurt, curl up in the fetal position and suck your thumb and let us grownups fix your leftist mess!
Even if it does not change the outcome, we must do this to ensure Russia did not interfere in this election. If we take no action, it sends a signal to Putin that he can act with impunity.
20
If there were any hope here, Hillary and her surrogates would have been all over it weeks ago. Trump is the next President with a 100% chance. even The Upshot says so.
11
So they don't want to learn the lessons of this defeat and still wants to stay in their echo chamber by blaming others. Yesterday it was James Comey, today it's because of the counting of the votes in Michigan, and what will be tomorrow's new invention? An election being rigged? Instead of bothering us with this pointless procedures and protests, Democrats/liberals/progressives should start to think how to reconquer the voters (you remember, the deplorables?) they DO lost in this blue States. Obama, at the same game, with the same rules, in the same states, did very well!! Don't forget that.
10
That would mean confronting the fact that Clinton was a bad candidate who turned off a lot of people who voted for Obama twice. Denial is much more comforting.
3
She need a hand recount in all five swing states. On top of the low margins, friends of mine have said that their early mail in votes were never received base on the tracking number Many of us think that early votes were thrown away. For the sake of democracy and voting, we need a recount and investigation in all five states. NOW
21
The citizens of the United States deserve a recount. We deserve an honest, accurate, ethical, transparent count of votes.
19
Folks, lets do the math. Even if by some slim chance, the results were overturned in MI and WI, Clinton would still not have enough to win. The margin of victory from PA of 70,000 votes is too large to overcome. She needs all 3 states and that aint gonna happen. There are no electoral votes in the state of denial. Move on...
21
It would be interesting to see if a recount turns up fraud in inner-city dmocratic strongholds and she actually winds up with less votes.
3
An American citizen (born in one of the swing states) who is currently living abroad was not able to cast his vote despite following instructions given by officials. An isolated case? Maybe, but strange nevertheless.
23
Hope you can stay abroad for 4 years...I am envious
The moral of the story is now, and will continue to be for a very very long time: for every human being, there are a million lines of bad code.
We can barely entrust our government to get basics correct, and now we expect them to get not only counting, but also voting machines right?
Audit it. Then Trump wins. End of story.
We can barely entrust our government to get basics correct, and now we expect them to get not only counting, but also voting machines right?
Audit it. Then Trump wins. End of story.
4
Citizens do need to demand that the ways that this election was rigged by the Republican Crosscheck scam are absolutely banned for future elections. That involved sending letters marched "Do Not Forward" to voters homes, and when the voters had moved or did not respond, they and other voters who had somewhat similar names were all "scrubbed" from the roles without their knowledge. In the states where the Republican voting officials did this, there were many times more voters who were scrubbed and lost the right to vote than the margin by which Hillary lost. As for the voting machines, I am not the first person to point out that we all use electronic bank machines that accurately calculate our debits and credits down to the penny and give us a paper receipt. Our voting machines can surely be designed to do the same. The legal suit against Wisconsin that has already been ruled on by 3 judges shows another way that Republicans rig the vote by giving more weight to the voters in certain areas than others. And gerrymandering is not something about which we should have to shrug our shoulders and accept. Iowa has a non-partisan system for fair redistricting that other states should adopt. Where were our "news leaders" when all of this "rigging" was being done? If we want fair elections we need to change all of these unfair (illegal?) practices before we vote again.
10
All of these energies would be put to better use by creating a mass movement supporting the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact to render the electoral college redundant.
7
Costal ruly by the gimme crowd would result in a civil war and the eventusl dissolution of the Union.
7
That's pie-in-the-sky. This is real and it is now.
Perhaps that's exactly what needs to happen, though. We aren't a nation at all, but at least 11 different nations forced into an unnatural compact. I don't understand where you're coming from culturally, socially, spiritually, or morally. You don't understand me either, nor do you wish to. I am a "gimme" voter, after all. Perhaps we should go our separate ways. Think of the time, stress, and money it would save everyone. Lincoln should have just let ya'll go.
Welcome back to Electoral hell. The problem with recounts is if the original count is that flawed, why should I trust a recount?
A bigger problem is why should Jill Stein, a failed one percent candidate, even have the standing to get a recount when she has zero chance of winning. The point is why she has the power to throw the country into chaos when Sec. Clinton is not asking for this?
A bigger problem is why should Jill Stein, a failed one percent candidate, even have the standing to get a recount when she has zero chance of winning. The point is why she has the power to throw the country into chaos when Sec. Clinton is not asking for this?
3
It is likely that the polls showing Clinton ahead of Trump in battleground states were "accurate" within their usual 3-5 pct margins of error. What turned the dial just enough to Trump was that despicable Comey letter to Congress about the Weiner emails just 9 days before the election. Conversely, Comey refused to sign on to the U.S. Intelligence community's near unanimous conclusion that it was Russians or hacking freelancers meddling with the DNC and Clinton campaign emails. And why was this? Because Comey didn't think it was fair to release such information so close to the election. Maybe it was his way of kissing up to Republicans for failing to get an indictment against Hillary. Trump immediately went on a "lock her up" rampage calling the email controversy the worst thing since Watergate. Which, of course, is ludicrous. Comey's actions require an investigation by an independent prosecutor. Ain't gonna happen.
22
How did the Clinton emails get on Weiner's computer when Huma denied using it? Were they planted? How did Rudy G. know ahead of time about an Oct. surprise about the emails as reported on CNN? This needs to be investigated NOW vigorously before Dec. 19, not years later as ancient history. This election was rigged in Trump's favor, and Trump's outrageous allegations were all a ploy for us to deny it could ever happen. A ploy of deception just like Birtherism and "Lock Her Up." Someone knows the truth and needs to speak up to save our nation from a Russian-friendly, fascist dictator and to save the planet from climate change. Country over Party now more than ever!
Keeping the focus on how close the Electoral College victory was is the largest benefit of these actions. This election was "hacked" by the FBI. That's no joke and it's not sour grapes. It's implausible that Comey's intervention did NOT increase turnout enough for Trump (and supress it for Clinton) to turn the tide in these three states. We need an investigation into what happened at the FBI in October. If there was any collusion between it and the Trump campaign, then that's a Hatch Act violation. We need to know before the Electoral College meets in December.
21
This is old information. Jill Stein of the Green Party has raised almost
4 million dollars to file petition for recounts in Wisconsin, Michigan, Penn.
As a presidential candidate, she has a little bit more leeway with timelines
and requests. Go to her website. Donate to the cause. She is doing this under the auspices of integrity in elections. Emails were hacked by Russians, Comey did act against standard policies regarding investigations... vote totals in those states are within 1% which really ought to trigger an automatic audit anyway. I say go for it. What if it does make a difference, and if not then there will be no question of results.
4 million dollars to file petition for recounts in Wisconsin, Michigan, Penn.
As a presidential candidate, she has a little bit more leeway with timelines
and requests. Go to her website. Donate to the cause. She is doing this under the auspices of integrity in elections. Emails were hacked by Russians, Comey did act against standard policies regarding investigations... vote totals in those states are within 1% which really ought to trigger an automatic audit anyway. I say go for it. What if it does make a difference, and if not then there will be no question of results.
23
If you did overturn the fair and legal election of Trump there will be a civil war! Guaranteed!!!
At this point, this is what our supposedly representative democracy looks like:
In two elections since 2000, the candidate who received fewer votes was elected president. On any given election, gerrymandering predetermines the winner for all but a handful of races for the House of Representatives. States like California, which has a population that is 66 times greater than Wyoming's, has an equal number of senators as Wyoming in the Senate. The Senate refuses to hold hearings for nearly a year for a Supreme Court nominee. Secret donations to political parties are lawful. Secretly-sponsored political advertising is lawful. Suppression of voting of targeted groups is lawful. Voting in many states is unverifiable due to lack of paper ballot back-up to electronic voting machines. The great majority of wealth is concentrated in the hands of a small minority of people.
This is all before Donald Trump makes the next one or more Supreme Court nominations. If the United States was once a beacon of democracy, it is no longer. We are now firmly a plutocracy, soon to be led by an alleged billionaire who has a history of paying no taxes, stiffing contractors and workers, hiring undocumented workers, and enriching himself while his companies go bankrupt.
In two elections since 2000, the candidate who received fewer votes was elected president. On any given election, gerrymandering predetermines the winner for all but a handful of races for the House of Representatives. States like California, which has a population that is 66 times greater than Wyoming's, has an equal number of senators as Wyoming in the Senate. The Senate refuses to hold hearings for nearly a year for a Supreme Court nominee. Secret donations to political parties are lawful. Secretly-sponsored political advertising is lawful. Suppression of voting of targeted groups is lawful. Voting in many states is unverifiable due to lack of paper ballot back-up to electronic voting machines. The great majority of wealth is concentrated in the hands of a small minority of people.
This is all before Donald Trump makes the next one or more Supreme Court nominations. If the United States was once a beacon of democracy, it is no longer. We are now firmly a plutocracy, soon to be led by an alleged billionaire who has a history of paying no taxes, stiffing contractors and workers, hiring undocumented workers, and enriching himself while his companies go bankrupt.
13
I'm not inclined to conspiracy theories, or political desperation, but this audit/recount must take place. I understand the popular/electoral vote history and dynamic, but this audit/recount must take place. I understood and accepted the 2000 election decided in the Supreme Court, though I understood as a philosophy based decision from a conservative court, but a binding Supreme Court decision none the less. But I've got not much objective understanding left. HRC's popular vote margin keeps growing, we know for certain that intelligence sources were concerned about outside manipulation of the election, and the American penchant for take-no-prisoner election tactics on both sides has shown itself in full force. This election must be recounted/audited, or it will never be ultimately taken seriously, and I will be on the brink of giving up on this part of our great democracy. I understand why HRC may not want to pursue it, and I can respect that, but we are owed a true and final accounting.
16
It's not really paradoxical to hear Clinton supporters picking up Trump's mantra about election-rigging: Trump's big campaign strategy was deflecting criticism and projecting his faults -- from bad temperament to fishy business dealings -- onto Clinton. Why would it be surprising if he accused her of election-rigging to deflect attention from shenanigans on his side? I'm not accusing Trump of actually rigging voting machines, but I imagine he noticed the Wikileaks/FBI/voter-suppression stuff was all in his favor. Many Clinton supporters were vocal about election-rigging even then, but Trump managed to drown them out with his always successful deflection strategy.
"I'm rubber you're glue, your words bounce off me and stick to you."
"I'm rubber you're glue, your words bounce off me and stick to you."
10
An outstanding comment. Just like Birtherism and "Lock Her Up," his claims of vote rigging was all a deceptive ploy for us to say "No, the elections are not rigged." So when he wins by rigging, we just accept the results without further questioning. Well, the time is NOW for not only a recount in 3 states/forensic analysis that Jill Stein has raised over 4 million to achieve, but a full, vigorous investigation of the Russian-Trump ties and investigation of Trump's tax returns, which Obama could request for national security reasons: Section 6103g of the Internal Revenue Code explicitly states:
"(1) In general: Upon written request by the President, signed by him personally, the Secretary shall furnish to the President, or to such employee or employees of the White House Office as the President may designate by name in such request, a return or return information with respect to any taxpayer named in such request."
"(1) In general: Upon written request by the President, signed by him personally, the Secretary shall furnish to the President, or to such employee or employees of the White House Office as the President may designate by name in such request, a return or return information with respect to any taxpayer named in such request."
1
I understand the "move on" mentality. But it is clear our system of voting and accounting for outcomes has some fractures. We cannot continue with an "Oh well" mentality. It seems like this election is the right time to push that assessment forward, particularly in the context of the glaring discrepancy between the popular vote and the outcome of the electoral college. If we do not as a nation take those steps, the growing loss of confidence in the fundamentals of our electoral process is at risk and will fester going forward. People and machines make mistakes, both intentionally and unintentionally.
6
Hows about the Federal Bureau of Innuendo forego their next scheduled release of Clinton Smog and investigate the voting irregularities in the Swing states noted? Hmmmm? These irregularities MIGHT be nothing; yes, absolutely. But then ALL the Hillary investigations over the last 20 years have amounted to nothing, haven't they? And doesn't the Chief FBI Guy owe his investigative team a change of doggerel?? I mean after 20 years of rant radio and febrile Facebook coupled with ZERO indictments?? Come on then, Mister Comey: do right.
12
Bravo! Time for Comey to redeem himself to prevent the Russian-takeover by our Manchurian candidate Trump. Someone knows the truth and for love of country, must speak up to save our nation and the planet.
DJT should have no problem with a recount considering how much he bellowed about a "rigged" election. There is no good reason for not doing the recount, especially when HRC has such a big lead in the popular vote. If the situation was reversed , DJT would be SCREAMING for a recount. Keep up the fight, there is nothing to lose except our country!
19
Democrats where is the offended outrage you hurled at Trump when he declined to state that he would "accept" the "results" of the election at the last debate? My Lord ! You portrayed him as an imminent threat to our democracy! An outrage, a disqualifying outrage! Now we see who really tries to squirm out of election results. THE DEMOCRATS! Like Gore before him, some just can't "move on". Peer in to your soul, democrats and see the hypocrisy which forms your core.
10
Um no. Recounts have always been accepted as a valid part of the process. If you actually want to see someone trying to squirm out of election results, go take a gander at the NC race for governor.
14
You seem to forget several key points: (1) Trump was calling the election rigged against him with zero evidence and needed to be pressed to decide if he would accept the results. (2) Clinton has not raised this issue, some people who know a thing or two about statistics have. (3) t was Bush, not Gore who made a "Federal Case" out of 2000.
7
Sorry, MSM, including the NYT, there will NEVER be a smooth transition for any intelligent, educated, or sane voter with a president who is clearly emotionally disturbed, unintelligent, less curious than a 6 week old kitten, and lies 24/7, depending on his audience. Further complicated by an assembled cabinet if connected, but incompetent loyalists and family member. I believe access seeking Oprah was the first to try to normalize this election. IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN.
16
RECOUNT. Please. Any risk is worth getting this monster out of office. I'll grasp at any straw you give me. And...in fact...look how many more votes HRC won. This election does not pass the smell test.
28
I'm sorry to say but it feels like we are reliving the 2000 elections all over again only this time it involves Wisconsin,Michigan,and Pennsylvania.
Trump was hinting us all along that the system is rigged as he was busy talking with the Russians. The Russians were telling Donald Trump: Don't worry comrade we have everything under control you will become the 45th president. And you will also become Vladimir Putin's puppet and follow every command he tells you to follow. LET'S HAVE A RECOUNT!
Trump was hinting us all along that the system is rigged as he was busy talking with the Russians. The Russians were telling Donald Trump: Don't worry comrade we have everything under control you will become the 45th president. And you will also become Vladimir Putin's puppet and follow every command he tells you to follow. LET'S HAVE A RECOUNT!
18
JILL STEIN campaign is calling for a RECOUNT. Anyone interested should go to her website immediately.
19
Hope it doesn't get hacked by Putin!
So, for months we heard he could never win...and so why, now, should we accept that a recount wouldn't result with an overturn.....? I'm so tired of hearing never, unlikely, impossible...didn't we just experience that? And look what happened...Come on, let's do the right thing....count them up right .... uncover the "rigging" (isn't that what he called it?). We KNOW if the tables were reversed he'd be crying "rigged" and DEMANDING" a recount along with his motley crew. Recount!!let's get the leader the people voted for in her rightful place.
27
says a lot when Hillary stands to possibly ? reach a potential 2.5 million popular votes that's like five times as large as the margin by which Al Gore beat George W. Bush in the popular vote in 2000 Legally speaking, that fact is irrelevant. But the fact that a couple million more Americans chose Clinton to be their president is highly relevant to Trump’s legitimacy and small comfort the Brookings Institution recently discovered as they sifted the election returns that the democrats won 68% of areas that generates the most income for the USA
4
"So, for months we heard he could never win..."
For years we head we were winning in Vietnam.
Obama claimed during the 2012 election that he ended the war in Iraq and left it with a stable government.
The Democratic Party supports unionized manufacturing workers' "Buy American" efforts.
Krugman has stated that all is well in the Republic because of what he observes during a run through a Manhattan park.
Trump couldn't win the 2016 presidential election.
According to the accounts in the NY Times all post-election violence and harassment has been perpetrated by racist Trump supporters.
One hears a lot of stuff.
For years we head we were winning in Vietnam.
Obama claimed during the 2012 election that he ended the war in Iraq and left it with a stable government.
The Democratic Party supports unionized manufacturing workers' "Buy American" efforts.
Krugman has stated that all is well in the Republic because of what he observes during a run through a Manhattan park.
Trump couldn't win the 2016 presidential election.
According to the accounts in the NY Times all post-election violence and harassment has been perpetrated by racist Trump supporters.
One hears a lot of stuff.
Too bad people weren't concerned enough about the irregularities in the 2016 Democratic primary to insist on auditing the vote.
19
Too bad the primary candidate who could beat Trump was cheated by the DNC and the corrupt media.
I beg the Clinton campaign to do this. Please...please...please. At least then the headlines would be taken away from the person the majority of voters either loathe and/or totally incompetent to be president. Please do it!
16
Eric:
You live in a state that has much to lose with a climate denier, and fossil fuel worshiper, ruling us.
Perhaps the polls were not so wrong after all. Can the folks in Florida really be that blind? In 2000 the exit polls clearly showed Gore the winner.
When the news called it for Gore, "W" and his entourage jumped off their couch (As seen on live TV) and got on the phone. They clearly knew something we didn't. The rest, is the stuff of nightmares. WMD's anyone?
The republicans then conducted a Big spectacle "Investigation". They claimed the news "tampered" with the election. The news media just did what they always do. Call it as they see it. Strange how it went the other way, or did it really? The supreme court stepped in. The conservatives on it Tampered with the election so that Bush/Cheney ruled the country. We, and the climate of our planet, are much worse off now.
By the way ! Where are the investigations about Comey who actually DID Tamper with this election?
You live in a state that has much to lose with a climate denier, and fossil fuel worshiper, ruling us.
Perhaps the polls were not so wrong after all. Can the folks in Florida really be that blind? In 2000 the exit polls clearly showed Gore the winner.
When the news called it for Gore, "W" and his entourage jumped off their couch (As seen on live TV) and got on the phone. They clearly knew something we didn't. The rest, is the stuff of nightmares. WMD's anyone?
The republicans then conducted a Big spectacle "Investigation". They claimed the news "tampered" with the election. The news media just did what they always do. Call it as they see it. Strange how it went the other way, or did it really? The supreme court stepped in. The conservatives on it Tampered with the election so that Bush/Cheney ruled the country. We, and the climate of our planet, are much worse off now.
By the way ! Where are the investigations about Comey who actually DID Tamper with this election?
5
Jill Stein has raised over 4 million dollars for the recounts in 3 states as of 5pm EST 11/24. It will happen.
Recounts in all three states would give some people jobs, would settle doubts, and would expose any wrongdoing. If Clinton fails to ask for a recount, can we the people?
19
Jill Stein has requested a recount.
HRC lost the election its over.
Time to start rebuilding the Democratic Party with Progressives like Rep Keith Ellison and Senator Warren.
There is no good reason to throw good money after bad. We can use this money for progressive causes.
Time to start rebuilding the Democratic Party with Progressives like Rep Keith Ellison and Senator Warren.
There is no good reason to throw good money after bad. We can use this money for progressive causes.
8
Wizarat; What are you worried about?
Do that, rebuild it with progressives and progressive causes and you will lose the election in four years. But you will not understand this until you see it for yourselves. So good luck with that. But you are wrong. This country does not want to move to the left that far. It never has. It never will.
More "progressives"? Great idea double down on your losses.
Surely, with the likely hundreds of thousands if not millions who were affected by voter suppression and intimidation, we could at least recount the actual votes.
And as for the electronic cheating, it seems possible. This is a puzzle, because credit card companies manage to secure vastly more complicated transactions.
You might think it's intentional, and you would be right. The REDMAP and other Republican strategies, along with ALEC's templates for states to suppress votes, gerrymandering, and every other kind of subtle and not-so-subtle forms of cheating, have distorted our elections at least since Bush 2000.
Some people think Pennsylvania might be honest, but how many voters in the urban centers were not counted. At this point, my capacity for suspicion is as strong as the Republican authorities and Kochtopus's and Russian hackers capacity for cheating.
And as for the electronic cheating, it seems possible. This is a puzzle, because credit card companies manage to secure vastly more complicated transactions.
You might think it's intentional, and you would be right. The REDMAP and other Republican strategies, along with ALEC's templates for states to suppress votes, gerrymandering, and every other kind of subtle and not-so-subtle forms of cheating, have distorted our elections at least since Bush 2000.
Some people think Pennsylvania might be honest, but how many voters in the urban centers were not counted. At this point, my capacity for suspicion is as strong as the Republican authorities and Kochtopus's and Russian hackers capacity for cheating.
14
A recount in Michigan, less than 11,000 out of 4.5 million, seems reasonable. The Wisconsin one is a bit trickier, the Pennsylvania one, 70,000 would need a monumental snafu. As an anti-Trump, I don't mind getting him to realize that he absolutely does not have a mandate and he should be aware of it. That's the only plus I see in a possible recount.
34
I beg to differ. The simple act of winning the EC gives President Trump a mandate.
5
He has the Presidency, both houses of Congress, and soon the Supreme Court. That sounds like a mandate to me.
The nice thing is Jill Stein is leading the charge to raise the money for a recount and she is almost there.
She has raised 3.9 million, and more than 1 million has been raised since late last night. This takes the pressure off Clinton to do so.
https://jillstein.nationbuilder.com/recount
She has raised 3.9 million, and more than 1 million has been raised since late last night. This takes the pressure off Clinton to do so.
https://jillstein.nationbuilder.com/recount
44
What does she expect to gain? 270 electoral votes?
I would imagine Hillary still has a lot left in her war chest. Would she be allowed to pass any onto this effort?
A challenge in these states is a very good idea.
If nothing more, it may put some minds to rest or at least identify serious things to watch out for next time.
In addition to the issues identified by computer scientists, there were also other odd clues that something fishy was afoot. These need to be put to rest.
Trump seemed to know in advance that he could win in some states where he was shown to be far behind.
Even early on, when Clinton held a large lead in Pennsylvania, a lead that could not come close to being erased by the polling margin or error, Trump declared that it would be very fishy if he did not win there.
What would lead him to believe that?
Also, at the 11th hour, those reporting the news were scratching their heads as to why Trump was suddenly making trips to Michigan and Wisconsin, places where Clinton had always held a reasonable lead in the polls.
They wanted to know what the Trump campaign knew or suspected. It did not make sense.
So, there seems to be some indication that the Trump team knew in advance that Trump may win these states.
He may have needed to provide optics to make a win seem more plausible, such as a last minute campaign stop, or his team simply made an educated guess that all others missed.
Add in Russia's shenanigans and that of Comey, and people are not confident in the election process.
An investigation should be done to put minds at ease and restore faith in the process.
If nothing more, it may put some minds to rest or at least identify serious things to watch out for next time.
In addition to the issues identified by computer scientists, there were also other odd clues that something fishy was afoot. These need to be put to rest.
Trump seemed to know in advance that he could win in some states where he was shown to be far behind.
Even early on, when Clinton held a large lead in Pennsylvania, a lead that could not come close to being erased by the polling margin or error, Trump declared that it would be very fishy if he did not win there.
What would lead him to believe that?
Also, at the 11th hour, those reporting the news were scratching their heads as to why Trump was suddenly making trips to Michigan and Wisconsin, places where Clinton had always held a reasonable lead in the polls.
They wanted to know what the Trump campaign knew or suspected. It did not make sense.
So, there seems to be some indication that the Trump team knew in advance that Trump may win these states.
He may have needed to provide optics to make a win seem more plausible, such as a last minute campaign stop, or his team simply made an educated guess that all others missed.
Add in Russia's shenanigans and that of Comey, and people are not confident in the election process.
An investigation should be done to put minds at ease and restore faith in the process.
55
Bravo for your outstanding comment that explains those Trump visits to Wisconsin and Michigan in the last week that surprised people. He needed to provide a plausible reason for the rigged result of Trump winning. Furthermore, Trump claimed that the results would be rigged so the Clinton supporters would all push back against that idea, so they would not be empowered to audit the rigged results from the Trump side. There was some reason for him to make such an outrageous allegation, just like the Birtherism and "Lock Her Up" lies to diverted our attention from what was really going on. Wake up America NOW or we are doomed as a nation!
18
For pete's sake, will you all let it go?! Trump god exactly as many votes as all GOP candidates get in every election. Clinton's numbers were drastically lower. Why? Because no one trusts her. Give it up and let's try for a little unity.
27
Clinton has gotten more votes than seven elected presidents, including some who won the electoral college, and her margin is still growing. She won the popular vote, so more people trust her than Trump by millions. If you want unity, get your facts straight and treat people with respect instead of sneering contempt.
16
No. Stop. It's over. Next time:
1) Nominate a better candidate.
2) Campaign like you want to win the Electoral College.
1) Nominate a better candidate.
2) Campaign like you want to win the Electoral College.
32
Obviously, you're afraid of a recount. Excuse me, but the MAJORITY voted for Hillary, not your guy.
1
Aren't you even curious to know if Russia/Putin hacked the system?
Campaign like you want to abolish the electoral college.
Hilary should be try it anyway nothing to loose isn't it.
6
How much will a recount cost? Tens if not hundreds of thousands of dollars, right. Who is writing the check?
4
Jill Stein.
8
The people are. The hundreds of thousands of grassroots folks who are putting in their own money.
17
Jill Stein is requesting a recount and the cost has been financed via online donations.. In less than 24hrs she has raised almost $4 million dollars, of that amount 2.5 million is required file for the recount and the rest will be used for legal fees.
3
The system is rigged all right...but on behalf of the Republicans and their Electoral College advantage.
42
How does one "rig" the Electoral College, which is written into the Constitution?
Says the man from a supposedly non-partisan think tank: “Left-wing conspiracy theories of vote rigging” are “pathetic,” Dave Wasserman of the Cook Political Report said on Twitter.
Really?! As pathetic as the right-wing conspiracy theories of vote "rigging" and busing "illegals" in to vote? Maybe all those "illegals" voted for Trump. Maybe the only thing Trump said that was not a lie is that the election was rigged.
Really?! As pathetic as the right-wing conspiracy theories of vote "rigging" and busing "illegals" in to vote? Maybe all those "illegals" voted for Trump. Maybe the only thing Trump said that was not a lie is that the election was rigged.
42
Trump's MO has been to echo accusations back at the accuser to cover his misdeeds, this would fit his MO of blamethrowing while committing the infractions.
Jilll Stein has raised $3.66M of $4.5M needed to force recounts in MI, WI and PA by 1:30pm today! Thanks Professor Halderman for speaking up to help get the effort to do recounts moving.
44
She cannot "force" a recount - only request a recount.
4
Actually, it was Jill Stein who raised the funds for the recount!
27
If there is a significant chance that this was a fraudulent election, it should be challenged. But I don't think we should go tilting at windmills. What's the point?
5
Yes, let's build up hopes and get them dashed a second time. Sounds like fun!
15
Where are the lame and ineffectual democratic party "leaders" who made such a mess of this election now? I guess they have run for the hills like they did in 2000. A recount in only three states, including mine, might return our country to sanity and recognize that Hillary Clinton should be our new President, yet there is silence. We MUST have a recount! As stated yesterday as the popular vote gap for Clinton has grown to two and a half MILLION, the widest margin since 1878, there is still silence from those who claim to represent our interests.
25
She lost, let it go. In HRC'a own words, it's "horrifying " to think someone wouldn't accept the results of the election.
22
We do accept the results ... Once they've been certified.
There are no firm results to accept at this time.
There are no firm results to accept at this time.
8
Unfortunately for us all, she won, by 2 million votes. She is the rightful president. If this helps in some small way rectify this awful mistake, I'm all for it. I contributed to the cause this afternoon and I feel a bit better already.
7
There is a weird outside chance that counting millions of paper ballots in WI and MI could reveal God knows what. But you are not going to overturn a lead of 70,000 in PA. I wish there were a way to change them and I wish it could be sprung on Mr. Trump now, because I know just what he'd say: "After I wasted all of my time on these ?$?!?%$ interviews and acting nice with the NY Times and all!!!!" Any recounts requested by Clinton voters would result in Trump voters asking for one in NH too. It really is time to prepare to deal with the disaster that Mr. Trump and the Republicans in Congress will start inflicting on the country and the world on January 21, 2017, as I would assume Sen. Schumer is and to judge by my email, numerous liberal groups wisely already are. The results of the election are still hard to conceive of, much less accept, but the results in the Electoral College are, I'm afraid, certain. We must move on.
14
Of course if the tables were turned there would be a recount. I'm quite sure if Trump would have been voted for by the majority of the people and Hillary won the electoral college there would be militias marching in the street as they promised to do. White nationalist hate groups were very clear in their intentions. It is the one saving grace of this horrible disgrace for America (the person with the most votes lost)- lives were saved. The malcontents in Portland were nothing compared to the armed white hate groups lying in wait.
26
That the candidate who won the popular vote is losing the election is a disgrace for the American democracy – it is actually the denial of democracy! How can a nation live with the fact that 68 million people are being defrauded of their electoral victory? Neither a French nor an American Revolution would be necessary to correct this screaming injustice: In the exceptional and extremely rare cases like the outcome of this election, the popular vote wins! Period! This would have been the case in only 5 of the 55 or so presidential elections since 1796 or only in 2 of the 17 elections since the end of WW II. The U.S. and the entire world would be a far better place today, if Al Gore had been President instead of George W. Bush. And would most certainly have a far better future, if Hillary Clinton would be President instead of the clown who lost the popular vote.
36
Read Federalist Paper #68.
1
The electoral college was put into place to appease southern slave states. Africans were made 3/5 of a person so those states could have some representation of their non-voting populace.
Our own historic roots continue to haunt.
Our own historic roots continue to haunt.
29
That is complete fiction. In fact, the EC was put into place to appease small northeastern states like Connecticut, Rhode Island, and Delaware.
5
You are wrong. It was to give the southern states, with smaller populations, more of a vote. Look it up.
Your system with the Electoral College discourages voting. What's the point doing it when your vote doesn't actually count. It all looks so unfair in light of HC's share of the popular vote. I know you don't want to hear this but the parliamentary system seems truer to the actual person who casts a vote. The electoral college has outlived its usefulness.
35
Actually, the Electoral College gives folks in smaller states and communities a voice. Otherwise, candidates would concentrate all their attention to just a handful of states where most people live.
6
just wondering if you know the difference between a democracy and a republic?
There are clearly serious doubts concerning results in (at least) 3 states. Why WOULDN'T there be a recount?
35
Whenever a Democrat 'loses' the presidential election but wins the popular vote the tallies in the so-called swing (word?) states should automatically be recounted.
It has happened that Democrats have lost the presidency to Republicans eight times. This should make people prick up their ears!
Note: the manufacturer of the voting machines most often used in the east loudly told the world 'I will do everything I can to make sure [a Republican] wins the election. Did the world completely forget this?
It is a betrayal for the so-called losing Democratic candidate to get cowed and bullied by Republicans who seek to cow and bully them (vis. 'It's pathetic!') to refrain from double checking the paper votes.
So --
Chuck the hackable voting machines! If I had to vote on a machine (in California) in order to vote, I wouldn't vote.
Automatically recheck each and every vote when the winning candidate's votes don't match the votes in 'certain' states.
Never again (!) allow Republican candidates to steal elections due to tallies in four or five states. -- or why don't we just let those states vote for president and save the energy and expense of voting in all the other states?!
Get rid of the so-called electoral college. It came from racism and elitism. There is no reason for it now.
Make a law employing stiff penalties for anyone to make money from promoting lies about any candidate on the internet or elsewhere.
It has happened that Democrats have lost the presidency to Republicans eight times. This should make people prick up their ears!
Note: the manufacturer of the voting machines most often used in the east loudly told the world 'I will do everything I can to make sure [a Republican] wins the election. Did the world completely forget this?
It is a betrayal for the so-called losing Democratic candidate to get cowed and bullied by Republicans who seek to cow and bully them (vis. 'It's pathetic!') to refrain from double checking the paper votes.
So --
Chuck the hackable voting machines! If I had to vote on a machine (in California) in order to vote, I wouldn't vote.
Automatically recheck each and every vote when the winning candidate's votes don't match the votes in 'certain' states.
Never again (!) allow Republican candidates to steal elections due to tallies in four or five states. -- or why don't we just let those states vote for president and save the energy and expense of voting in all the other states?!
Get rid of the so-called electoral college. It came from racism and elitism. There is no reason for it now.
Make a law employing stiff penalties for anyone to make money from promoting lies about any candidate on the internet or elsewhere.
26
Frankly I wouldnt suspect Russia of rigging our election
I would look no further than the F.B.I
I would look no further than the F.B.I
24
Yep. Comey acted like a manchurian candidate.
Recount supporters unite. If that doesn't work we will give our party to Bernie Sanders and Keith Ellison. Then we will totally do away with the electoral college. I love it when a plan comes together. Then we will know what to tell our children. Funny, my young kids don't care much about politics and my teenage kids don't listen to me.
6
If the shoe was on the other foot Trump and his supporters would be ranting and raving "rigged" everywhere. Trump would be stomping his feet revving up a new alt-right media empire with him on it's throne.
35
If Hillary had won, no one on the right would have protested as it was widely expected she would win. But lost she did.
3
Ironic that it is the Clintonites who now claim the election was rigged, and refuse to accept the results of the presidential election, after raising such a ruckus when Trump insisted on reserving his legal right to challenge suspicious results that had not yet been formally certified. But this has been a very strange election indeed. But fitting that it is the ever-glib Trip Gabriel to plant these seeds of illegitimacy ...
12
Clinton herself contested nothing. It was Jill Stein who asked for a recount.
28
Get your facts straight. Hillary Clinton has not contested anything, at this point, even with the popular vote in her favor. All sides should want to work toward the integrity of our electoral system. It seems it should be our responsibility as the electorate.
Ironically, Trump was the most vocal about voter fraud, until he won.
Ironically, Trump was the most vocal about voter fraud, until he won.
5
she won the popular vote....that doesn't matter to you I guess....and if there are questions about close votes in the states they should be recounted
Great, the money was raised by Stein to have the vote challenged.
13
ironic since her running probably gave the EC to Trump....just like we all said it would
The best advice I've read for Clinton supporters:
"Get. Over. It."
While you're busy demanding recounts that even your candidate isn't asking for, and coming up with ever-snarlier remarks about Trump, Trump is ignoring you because he's busy talking to nut-jobs like John Bolton.
Have you noticed?
"Get. Over. It."
While you're busy demanding recounts that even your candidate isn't asking for, and coming up with ever-snarlier remarks about Trump, Trump is ignoring you because he's busy talking to nut-jobs like John Bolton.
Have you noticed?
13
"Get Over It" was the same advice the Brits gave to the American Colonists.
Glad we rejected that advice then and I'm looking forward to us rejecting it now.
Glad we rejected that advice then and I'm looking forward to us rejecting it now.
5
Oh we have noticed. That's why we're grasping at everything no matter how remote a chance it is to not have him elected. We knew what Trump would do before and we're seeing him gather up personnel and publishing his 100 day manifesto. It's going to be a bleak nasty nation for most everyone in 6-12 months if he has his way.
Paul Ryan has already said that Trump's win was a People's mandate -- doesn't matter that Trump was outvoted by 2 million votes. He and the rest of the GOP fanatics are interpreting the close margins of these swing states as overwhelming support for the wealthy to become even wealthier.
Paul Ryan's long held desire is to have Medicare dismantled by the end of 2017. We can focus on multiple issues at a time. To determine if there was computer hacking/intervention AND resist the gathering of the crazy people Trump claims he's going to install. It's not an either/or situation.
Paul Ryan has already said that Trump's win was a People's mandate -- doesn't matter that Trump was outvoted by 2 million votes. He and the rest of the GOP fanatics are interpreting the close margins of these swing states as overwhelming support for the wealthy to become even wealthier.
Paul Ryan's long held desire is to have Medicare dismantled by the end of 2017. We can focus on multiple issues at a time. To determine if there was computer hacking/intervention AND resist the gathering of the crazy people Trump claims he's going to install. It's not an either/or situation.
2
We notice it all....and a recount is fine...Clinton has more popular votes by over a million
"Done with the Clinton's..."
I wouldn't be so sure. I thought that after the 2008 election, and look what happened.
During her Saturday Night Live skit after the first Trump-Clinton debate, Kate McKinnon (playing Hillary Clinton) turned to the audience and informed us that we Americans had no choice but to elect her or else she'd just keep running over and over and over until we did. I laughed, but I'm not so sure McKinnon wasn't right about that.
Hillary Clinton will be only 73 years old in 2020, younger than Bernie Sanders was this time. I wouldn't rule her out.
I wouldn't be so sure. I thought that after the 2008 election, and look what happened.
During her Saturday Night Live skit after the first Trump-Clinton debate, Kate McKinnon (playing Hillary Clinton) turned to the audience and informed us that we Americans had no choice but to elect her or else she'd just keep running over and over and over until we did. I laughed, but I'm not so sure McKinnon wasn't right about that.
Hillary Clinton will be only 73 years old in 2020, younger than Bernie Sanders was this time. I wouldn't rule her out.
9
Not Clinton.
Elizabeth Warren for President.
Elizabeth Warren for President.
The Democrats routinely decry and revolt at the suggestion that elections are rigged (save for Bush and the Supreme Court decision that wreck Al Gore and the country). So, why is this election suddenly rigged or miscounted? Don't the Democrats believe their denial is correct? Apparently not. Now that they've lost, of course the election is rigged and/or miscounted.
Democrats, make up your mind! If the system is rigged as you now say then let's fix it and not just recount. But, if this is just sour grapes the let the decision stand.
Democrats make a mockery out of our election process when they claim fraud when their candidate loses and pretend outrage at the suggestion by Republicans that the system is in fact rigged. They can't have it both ways.
Maybe both parties should work to end the practice of gerry-madering. That might help. Maybe too Democrats should subscribe to minimum voter identification requirements like a drivers license or household tax or utility invoice at the place of residence of the voter. That's reasonable for most citizens except perhaps for those who are ill, handicapped or need assistance.
Democrats, make up your mind! If the system is rigged as you now say then let's fix it and not just recount. But, if this is just sour grapes the let the decision stand.
Democrats make a mockery out of our election process when they claim fraud when their candidate loses and pretend outrage at the suggestion by Republicans that the system is in fact rigged. They can't have it both ways.
Maybe both parties should work to end the practice of gerry-madering. That might help. Maybe too Democrats should subscribe to minimum voter identification requirements like a drivers license or household tax or utility invoice at the place of residence of the voter. That's reasonable for most citizens except perhaps for those who are ill, handicapped or need assistance.
8
except we won
6
Gore couldn't even win his home state of Tennessee nor could he win Clinton's Arkansas. That alone substantiated his incompetence. He did not have true grit. Why would we want such a man for President?
6
Because he wouldn't have been King George II. Because we wouldn't have found ourselves engaged in needless warfare for the last 15 years. Because Social Security, if not at least in a lock box might have seen substantial improvement. Because the national debt wouldn't have gone through the roof by not paying for wars we couldn't afford. Because routine gun purchases might all undergone a background check. Because losing 800 state legislatures since Bill Clinton's last term might not have happened. Because the Supreme Court tainted its reputation. Because, because, because. That's why.
3
There should be a recount in every single red state, especially ones with hand counts and electronic machines to see if there was deliberate tampering. Make sure each and every provisional ballot is counted.
9
Why not the Blue States? I would like to know how many of Clinton's popular votes are legit.
1
Sure, the votes count might be wrong. We also get that the popular vote is for Clinton, and that the electoral college system is against democracy.
All of these facts are indicating that we do not live in a democracy.
But regardless, it still seems that a huge number of people actually voted for Trump. And that is the part that blows my mind in this story.
So recount or not, they are a huge number. I don't think anybody can deny that fact.
As far as I am concerned, these people will get what they don't want, but don't realize it yet. It will take a lot of years of pain and suffering before people finally realize what they have done.
All of these facts are indicating that we do not live in a democracy.
But regardless, it still seems that a huge number of people actually voted for Trump. And that is the part that blows my mind in this story.
So recount or not, they are a huge number. I don't think anybody can deny that fact.
As far as I am concerned, these people will get what they don't want, but don't realize it yet. It will take a lot of years of pain and suffering before people finally realize what they have done.
13
Except we don't live in a democracy. We live in a Constitutional Republic.
Greece is a Democracy, look what's happened to them!
Greece is a Democracy, look what's happened to them!
17
@garys opinion Look what's happened to us. The unraveling of the Middle East and the 2008 economy. An unmitigated disaster. Now Trump.
Both Bush and Trump lost the popular vote.
Germany and the rest of Europe are democracies. No electoral college for them, nor Canada, Australia, or New Zealand. Well parliamentary countries can override popular vote, but they can terminate the incompetents. And re England, when Brexit occurred Csmeron resigned. Would never happen here.
Both Bush and Trump lost the popular vote.
Germany and the rest of Europe are democracies. No electoral college for them, nor Canada, Australia, or New Zealand. Well parliamentary countries can override popular vote, but they can terminate the incompetents. And re England, when Brexit occurred Csmeron resigned. Would never happen here.
3
We don't live in a democracy. Never have. Never will. That is not the structure of our political system. We are a REPUBLIC, and national elections are determined in an indirect manner, by the votes of the electors selected at the state level.
Doesn't anyone learn anything in college these days, or is everyone too "traumatized" to go to class?
Doesn't anyone learn anything in college these days, or is everyone too "traumatized" to go to class?
Keep up the pressure.
We're in a crisis. Crisis are times to act.
It's a crisis when one candidate wins 1 1/2 percent more votes, and loses the election.
It's a crisis when a buffoon captains the ship of state.
It's a crisis when over 1/2 the news read by voters is false, and the other 1/2 biased.
It's a crisis when a candidate calls for violence if he loses, which makes winners afraid to speak.
It's a crisis if another country hacks our election.
It's a crisis when the press doesn't investigate who hacked the electoral process.
A crisis is a time to act. Every action matters. Lobby states and feds to end the electoral college. Lobby representatives to boycott Trump's inauguration. Don't back down when voices insist we should calm down and unite. The party of disunion is in power.
Seize the moment. Yes, it's something the GOP would do, but so what? A stopped clock is right twice a day.
We're in a crisis. Crisis are times to act.
It's a crisis when one candidate wins 1 1/2 percent more votes, and loses the election.
It's a crisis when a buffoon captains the ship of state.
It's a crisis when over 1/2 the news read by voters is false, and the other 1/2 biased.
It's a crisis when a candidate calls for violence if he loses, which makes winners afraid to speak.
It's a crisis if another country hacks our election.
It's a crisis when the press doesn't investigate who hacked the electoral process.
A crisis is a time to act. Every action matters. Lobby states and feds to end the electoral college. Lobby representatives to boycott Trump's inauguration. Don't back down when voices insist we should calm down and unite. The party of disunion is in power.
Seize the moment. Yes, it's something the GOP would do, but so what? A stopped clock is right twice a day.
33
And it's a crisis when the FBI tries and succeeds to swing our elections.
More than enough reasons to act.
More than enough reasons to act.
4
According to Writerchick, the nation is depending on Clinton to call for a recount. I am amazed that so many people believe that their certainty about any issue is shared by "the nation."
9
As a one time Democratic Committee Person there were years of over fifty absentees and rides to the poles and far more requests for someone's vote.
This year I didn't bother to pursue corrections for needed identification on absentee ballot applications or change of addresses for others. I had doubts about voting myself. If enough Democratic Public Servants and ex-committee persons did the same, they may have accounted for the difference in lost votes.
This year I didn't bother to pursue corrections for needed identification on absentee ballot applications or change of addresses for others. I had doubts about voting myself. If enough Democratic Public Servants and ex-committee persons did the same, they may have accounted for the difference in lost votes.
4
I gave money to the call for a recount. I don't believe a recount will change the winner of this election game. But I lived through the disappointment of Bush vs. Gore and I am now living through the disappointment of this election. I am tired of having to live in a country that bows to rural areas and leaves those of us in the urban areas, the majority of voters in this county, disinfranchised and neglected. I've never had a presidential candidate come to me for my vote because my vote doesn't matter. Therefore, my issues don't matter. I live with too many guns around me, too much traffic due to infrastructure neglect, overpriced housing, fear of not being able to educate my children or bring them to a doctor. My quality of life is diminishing, and the presidential candidates never hear my urban, east coast voice. It's time to get rid of the electoral college. My vote needs to count too.
28
Without the Electoral College only yours and three other states would do the electing. The Democrats have painted themselves in a figurative corner with its groups only appeals. They've relegated themselves to the cities where there is no ability to redistrict since there are no contiguous Red areas to consider.
2
I was very distraught at the results of the election, and I favor a recount--although not because I think it will change the results. I favor it because once this issue has arisen I think it will be very beneficial to have a recount and put this to bed, not even so much for the benefit of Hillary but for the benefit of soon-to-be-president Trump, so there will never be this doubt that he didn't win fairly.
I'm confident that this won't change the results only because I can't see how even the most sophisticated hackers could get in and alter the results just that tiny amount needed to flip the election, and to apply this change in the few hours during which the result we're being compiled.
P.S. - But what irony that Trump supporters are lamenting that their hero is being subject to "conspiracy theories!"
I'm confident that this won't change the results only because I can't see how even the most sophisticated hackers could get in and alter the results just that tiny amount needed to flip the election, and to apply this change in the few hours during which the result we're being compiled.
P.S. - But what irony that Trump supporters are lamenting that their hero is being subject to "conspiracy theories!"
15
Sometimes public and media opinion can act like a runaway train. Once something has been called in an election, even if the numbers begin heading in another direction after the call, they get ignored and downplayed. In the primaries, there are lots of examples of one candidate squeaking out a win in a state...followed by hoopla about how bad one candidate was vs the other ...and if over time, when the final count turns the outcome the other way, there is no visiting all the proclamations against and for the candidates. It becomes a tiny mention in TV cable scroll and in buried newspaper articles.
Indeed, early pronouncements are so important to starting that train, that I recall during the Bush/Gore fiasco, there was a claim of influence being exerted by a top executive at a major broadcasting network on its newsroom to call in favor of Bush.
So here we are again. One candidate has won the popular vote and the numbers in three key states that would help give the electoral college count to her opponent have been inching in at two of those states ever closer in Mrs. Clinton's favor. Yet the train keeps running away in one direction.
It is not the media's role to get the nation to accept one candidate over another or to force us to get on with our lives after an election they've called. Let's just finish this out with all the noise and full coverage it deserves.
Indeed, early pronouncements are so important to starting that train, that I recall during the Bush/Gore fiasco, there was a claim of influence being exerted by a top executive at a major broadcasting network on its newsroom to call in favor of Bush.
So here we are again. One candidate has won the popular vote and the numbers in three key states that would help give the electoral college count to her opponent have been inching in at two of those states ever closer in Mrs. Clinton's favor. Yet the train keeps running away in one direction.
It is not the media's role to get the nation to accept one candidate over another or to force us to get on with our lives after an election they've called. Let's just finish this out with all the noise and full coverage it deserves.
6
We don't need a recount. We need an FBI investigation into the possibility the electronic vote counts were tampered with. Considering the magnitude and the need for faith in the system, this should be automatic. There are statistical anomalies that need to be explained. Why were the counties that Clinton underperformed and Trump over performed more common in counties that used electronic systems? Why were the exit polls also unusually wrong in those same counties?
22
Regardless of whether a recount is successful, I think statements like America voted and chose Trump are incorrect. America voted for Clinton; electoral college will vote for Trump. A proceduralso process elected Trump, not the people. Those who say illegal aliens made the difference in the popular vote are insane. If there are 11 million illegal aliens, all of them are not voting age, there is no way that 3 million illegals voted for Clinton.
8
Had elections been decided by popular rather than electoral vote, the nominees would have focused more on the states with the largest population. True focused on the key states and he was proven right. Hillary wasted her time in California where many Republicans there already conceded defeat and many did not vote. In any case, why should this election have been determined by Californians?
11
MCH: Trump would have focused more in California, and Hillary would have focused more in Texas.
MCH, it is extremely unlikely that the popular vote would go to a Republican candidate in such an election. What about all the left-leaning residents in California etc who don't bother to vote because their state is a sure thing for Democrats? Just looking at the demographics of the 40% of the electorate that doesn't vote tells us that there is a huge pool of Democratic voters, in every state.
At least Richard Nixon had the decency, for the sake of the Republic, to concede the election even though everyone knew the Illinois and Texas results were highly suspect. He put the good of the country ahead of his own. Hillary and disgruntled Democrats should follow suit.
13
I always thought that Nixon conceded and said that one doesn't steal a presidential election because Tricky Dick had pulled his own stunts and didn't want to be exposed in a recount. He realized that Johnson and Joseph Kennedy had beaten him at his own game. That was my cynical take on it anyhow, but Nixon did have a few good points I guess.
3
Gore also conceded for the sake of the Republic, even though he actually won the popular vote and was subject to the whims of Florida Republicans and the Republican Supreme Court. That's the true class act, not so much Nixon's. In the case of the 2016 election, the results in several key states were opposite what the polls (narrowly) predicted. This either was a systematic error in polling, or systematic vote manipulation. Why not find out?
10
Trump's election is not about the good of the country. It's about what's good for Trump's grifting and what's good for the right wing nut cases enabling him.
10
Jill Stine has raised $2M in 8 HOURS to start the process of a recount. She was on the ballot so has special standing to request a recount. More funds are being requested for additional costs associated with the recounts in the three states MI, WI and PA. Professor Halderman of U of M Ann Arbor, is a world leader in electronic voting machines and hacking and, is supporting a recount to make sure the unexpected results of an analysis of the vote do not go un-investigated. Clearly this will be worth the effort.
14
MI is 100% paper. How can that be hacked? This is an attempt to reverse a controversial election and is dangerously soviet. If this proceeds a 100% audit of ALL VOTES for dead, aliens, etc, needs to be done. This is a tiresome process to keep the elites and the ordained in power.
I just donated and will again if necessary. The electoral college and voter the well known voter suppression in the red states tipped the scales the absolute wrong way. #itsNOTmypresident.
Democracy is an effective, but approximate instrument to generally guide government in a direction the people want. Even without being perfect or precise, it is still effective as a mechanism. Just as a thermostat will keep you from freezing to death even if it has five degrees of error, we should be grateful that it keeps us from destruction. Those in the sciences understand that there is measurement noise in every parameter. The instinct to demand it be a razor-sharp instrument with 0.001% accuracy is not just unrealistic, it's dangerous. The real asset is the legacy of peaceful transfer of power, which we didn't earn, it was gifted to us by generations before us.
I argued the exact same thing before the election when Trump claimed they were rigged, and in fact I argued the same thing during Bush v. Gore. I hate Trump, but if we wanted to win this election, we should have won by a wide enough margin that it doesn't come down to slicing with a razor and counting hanging chads. When you've only won by 1 or 2%, you can't indignantly claim that America demands your candidate. You've left it close enough for a coin flip, and that's your own fault. At that point, the interests of the country are better served by tipping your hat to the founding fathers, yielding gracefully, and going back and planning how to appeal to more Americans so you can win a comfortable 10% majority next time.
I argued the exact same thing before the election when Trump claimed they were rigged, and in fact I argued the same thing during Bush v. Gore. I hate Trump, but if we wanted to win this election, we should have won by a wide enough margin that it doesn't come down to slicing with a razor and counting hanging chads. When you've only won by 1 or 2%, you can't indignantly claim that America demands your candidate. You've left it close enough for a coin flip, and that's your own fault. At that point, the interests of the country are better served by tipping your hat to the founding fathers, yielding gracefully, and going back and planning how to appeal to more Americans so you can win a comfortable 10% majority next time.
15
Excellent comment. I couldnt have argued it better myself. Im a liberal, but I dont like how the Democrats want to blame their loss on anything but themselves.
9
Hope there is a next time and a party that can counter the GOP
3
Sometimes democracies and freedom need to be fought for.
This is one of those times.
This is one of those times.
The final phase of electoral grieving.
28
Not the "final phase" by a long shot!
He is not a legitimate president and we, the majority who voted for Clinton, won't ever let it rest.
He is not a legitimate president and we, the majority who voted for Clinton, won't ever let it rest.
1
Yes, it seems like many calling for a recount are in the "barganing" phase. Next (when this foolhardy mission meets its inevitable failure), the "depression" phase will begin. Followed - perhaps for the lucky ones - by the "acceptance" phase, when they accept Donald J Trump as their democratically elected President.
8
Obama is minimizing concerns about the troublesome popular vote in order to assure a smooth presidential transition. He knows there is potential for strife if the matter is headlined in the media.
8
Surely Helen Manich knows that just because ballots are cast does not mean they pass all criteria. However, it only becomes an issue when a democrat gets defeated.
13
Please. The GOP wouldn't have accepted losing the popular vote, period. Trump announced he wouldn't accept defeat.
3
The North Carolina governor election is being contested by the Republican despite being down by thousands of votes.
3
"For the sake of democracy itself, the votes in these key states should be recounted."
Absolutely! And then the recount should be recounted too, and the re-recount should be recounted again. Sooner or later, the result will change. When that happens, of course, there will be no need for further recounts.
Sure, both parties had representatives at every polling station in all three states, but those observers didn't pay very close attention. Post-election polls of observers prove this. 93.6% of them agreed with this statement: "Yeah, I was there and was supposed to be watching, but, truth be told, I wasn't really paying close attention." Nearly all of those observers, however, promised to pay much closer attention to a recount, and even closer attention to a re-recount. Those Putin/Assange-brainwashed election officials may have fooled them once, but it won't happen again!
Absolutely! And then the recount should be recounted too, and the re-recount should be recounted again. Sooner or later, the result will change. When that happens, of course, there will be no need for further recounts.
Sure, both parties had representatives at every polling station in all three states, but those observers didn't pay very close attention. Post-election polls of observers prove this. 93.6% of them agreed with this statement: "Yeah, I was there and was supposed to be watching, but, truth be told, I wasn't really paying close attention." Nearly all of those observers, however, promised to pay much closer attention to a recount, and even closer attention to a re-recount. Those Putin/Assange-brainwashed election officials may have fooled them once, but it won't happen again!
8
Just like in N.C.Governor's race... recount...recount...recount ad nauseam...
2
If, indeed, the Clinton campaign and Mrs. Clinton herself are sitting out a challenge, what does this say about those people and not just "the process"? Our legal and social history proves the sacred "Founding Fathers" were wrong about a lot of stuff. And for the popular vote for president to be batted down twice in 16 years speaks for itself. This latest episode is tantamount to all-but-knowing a titanic fate awaits this country and refusing to do anything about it. "Is that you, Hillary??"
1
And I thought the hangers on at Mumford and Son's concert were bad! Hillary loyalist won't realize the party is over!
11
Jill Stein and the Greeen Party have raised 3.5 million dollars in less than 24 hours toward the fees and funding to initiate recounts in Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania. The Times was the last major news outlet to pick up on what certainly seems to me to be a fairly signficiant story.
http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2016/11/24/us/politics/24reuters-usa-elec...
The Green Party is taking this on because there were enough statistical and other anomalies to warrant a closer look at the tallies.
More info: https://recountnow.nationbuilder.com/donate
http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2016/11/24/us/politics/24reuters-usa-elec...
The Green Party is taking this on because there were enough statistical and other anomalies to warrant a closer look at the tallies.
More info: https://recountnow.nationbuilder.com/donate
11
Im a Bernie supporter but its quite funny to see the same people who mocked and denounced Trump for saying stuff as the elections are rigged to be crying foul now.
22
No, it's not funny.
There are experts who suggest the results may have been hacked and the people are demanding an audit of the paper votes to make sure it wasn't hacked.
Trump was crying "rigged" before the vote even happened, which seems like a pretty good smoke-screen strategy for someone who was rigging the vote himself.
There are experts who suggest the results may have been hacked and the people are demanding an audit of the paper votes to make sure it wasn't hacked.
Trump was crying "rigged" before the vote even happened, which seems like a pretty good smoke-screen strategy for someone who was rigging the vote himself.
1
Hear, hear! Bernie would have beaten Trump in a landslide by the way. As I Republican, I am very thankful the corrupt DNC gave Hillary the nomination.
It is time to move on. Our election process is a mess and the Electoral College is an ancient artifact to be thrown out in favor of a popular vote. Clinton won the popular vote by huge margins but Trump won the artifact vote. Let it be. It serves no purpose to put the country through turmoil. President Trump can do that on his own. But there has to be a movement forward fix how we vote here.
12
Then I assume you belueve the Senate should also be abolished. Personally I believe the electoral college system is genius. I wouldnt want all the libs in NY and California dictating to the rest of the country. BTW, if you throw out all the illegals that voted for hillary, Trump also won the popular vote.
10
It doesn't need to be fixed. It isn't an ancient artifact, it is precisely what the brilliant men knew to be the best way to go. It is. You should research the electoral college and find out why we have it now and will always have it.
10
Bob, so you believe in the tyranny of the minority?
A major theme in the Trump campaign was that the election was rigged. Why is he just blindly accepting the results.
17
NH, VA, NV and CO had pretty severe irregularities. Analysis of this election and more thoroughly 2014-election showed millions of dead and non-citizens voted. Every attempt to make the vote infallible (blockchain voting, passport voting, public key voting, paper receipts verified online, indelible ink stains, etc) a certain sub-group claims voter disenfranchisement.
3
Where's your proof, Mick?
I'm confused. But as a Times subscriber, I went back to one of the many great articles on this topic.
"Donald Trump’s Threat to Reject Election Results Alarms Scholars"
By MAX FISHER OCT. 23, 2016
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/23/world/americas/donald-trump-rigged-ele...
"In weak democracies around the world, scholars warned Friday, political leaders have used the same language to erode popular faith in democracy — often intending to incite violence that will serve their political aims, and sometimes to undo democracy entirely."
"“Almost always, public faith, public trust in institutions is eroded when this happens,” Mr. Levitsky said of politicians who accuse their opponents of stealing an election and refuse to concede."
Can Mr. Fisher revisit the topic and interview some of these scholars to see what they have to say about this recount effort? Thanks!
"Donald Trump’s Threat to Reject Election Results Alarms Scholars"
By MAX FISHER OCT. 23, 2016
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/23/world/americas/donald-trump-rigged-ele...
"In weak democracies around the world, scholars warned Friday, political leaders have used the same language to erode popular faith in democracy — often intending to incite violence that will serve their political aims, and sometimes to undo democracy entirely."
"“Almost always, public faith, public trust in institutions is eroded when this happens,” Mr. Levitsky said of politicians who accuse their opponents of stealing an election and refuse to concede."
Can Mr. Fisher revisit the topic and interview some of these scholars to see what they have to say about this recount effort? Thanks!
12
Asking for a recount in three states, two of them very close, is not equivalent to one Presidential candidate stating (yes, stating emphatically, not questioning), before the election, that the election is rigged.
1
Time to move on and accept that Mr. Trump won the election. Sigh.
9
Several reputable mainstream media outlets icluding WSJ reported that Trump's son met with Russia supporters to discuss working on resolving the Syria situation, in mid October or when Trump's popularity took a dive due to the 'hit mic' incident. My questions for NYT are:
1. Why did Trump's son do what he did?
2 Was he there tepresenting the presidential candidate?
3. What did he offer the Russia supporters in return?
4. Is there a link between this unusual act with the hacking of our election systems including stealing information on 200,000 registered voters. This number is twice the number of votes that fipped PA, WI anf MI from blue to red.
5. Why has NYT not reported on this?
1. Why did Trump's son do what he did?
2 Was he there tepresenting the presidential candidate?
3. What did he offer the Russia supporters in return?
4. Is there a link between this unusual act with the hacking of our election systems including stealing information on 200,000 registered voters. This number is twice the number of votes that fipped PA, WI anf MI from blue to red.
5. Why has NYT not reported on this?
9
So much could have been investigated, so little actually was.
7
Not too late for the DOJ, FBI, and the NYT, Washington Post, CNN, etc. to investigate these leads vigorously before Dec. 19 before the Electors vote. Put this information with:
1. Homeland Security has said that Russian hackers scanned 20 state voter registration systems.
2. Arizona and Illinois voter registration systems were targeted; voter registration data from Illinois were stolen by hackers, presumably Russians.
3. US Dept of Homeland Security and Office of the Director of the National Intelligence stated that the US intelligence community was confident that the Russian government directed the breaches and the release of the obtained or allegedly obtained email material in an attempt to "… interfere with the US election process." Subsequent WikiLeaks of only the DNC emails (none of RNC).
4. Deputy Foreign Minister Sergei Ryabkov said on 10 November (Wash. Post) that the Russian government was in contact with the Trump campaign throughout the election campaign.
5. Trump just picked Lt. Gen. Michael Flynn as his National Security Advisor. Flynn has worked as a commentator for RT, the Russian state television network.
6. Trump's unprecedented affection for Putin, discounting Russian interference in the election, and he seemed determined to align America in its foreign policy with Russian interests.
7. Trump's stonewalling on releasing his tax returns that may show financial conflict of interest with Russia such as loans to his business or investments in Russia.
1. Homeland Security has said that Russian hackers scanned 20 state voter registration systems.
2. Arizona and Illinois voter registration systems were targeted; voter registration data from Illinois were stolen by hackers, presumably Russians.
3. US Dept of Homeland Security and Office of the Director of the National Intelligence stated that the US intelligence community was confident that the Russian government directed the breaches and the release of the obtained or allegedly obtained email material in an attempt to "… interfere with the US election process." Subsequent WikiLeaks of only the DNC emails (none of RNC).
4. Deputy Foreign Minister Sergei Ryabkov said on 10 November (Wash. Post) that the Russian government was in contact with the Trump campaign throughout the election campaign.
5. Trump just picked Lt. Gen. Michael Flynn as his National Security Advisor. Flynn has worked as a commentator for RT, the Russian state television network.
6. Trump's unprecedented affection for Putin, discounting Russian interference in the election, and he seemed determined to align America in its foreign policy with Russian interests.
7. Trump's stonewalling on releasing his tax returns that may show financial conflict of interest with Russia such as loans to his business or investments in Russia.
2
Concede defeat and move on. Democrats were deaf and dumbfounded by their self induced high, imagining an electoral sweep and the coronation of Queen Hillary. The only person, more shocked than Hillary is Obama.
His legacy, is going to be dismantled bit by bit.
Democrats are going to fight tooth and nail. The majority wants change, including those who voted for Hillary, as a protest vote.
Millions of undocumented aliens, from corrupt and lawless countries that are
practicing the same lawless conduct, all over our country. Have businesses and defraud local, state and the federal government, to the tune of, tens of billions of dollars of revenue every year.
No invoices no receipts, cash only. They are everywhere. Authorities are turning a blind eye. They cheat in services, and there is no recourse.
Sanctuary cities, is another farce of our doing. Look at Europe with it's "No Go Zones" in cities that authorities dare not go into. Outsiders are not welcome,
they are armed, have their own rules of law. Primarily Muslim zones.
I do not wish our country to fall prey to such idiocy. No one is above the law.
I am tired of the twisted phrase, people of color. Is white a color?
What is it BLM and BDS and the intimidation going on campuses, who is behind this? Limiting who is allowed to lecture, and the subject.
Chaos, riots, vandalism, intimidation, antisemitism allowed and encouraged to flourish.
His legacy, is going to be dismantled bit by bit.
Democrats are going to fight tooth and nail. The majority wants change, including those who voted for Hillary, as a protest vote.
Millions of undocumented aliens, from corrupt and lawless countries that are
practicing the same lawless conduct, all over our country. Have businesses and defraud local, state and the federal government, to the tune of, tens of billions of dollars of revenue every year.
No invoices no receipts, cash only. They are everywhere. Authorities are turning a blind eye. They cheat in services, and there is no recourse.
Sanctuary cities, is another farce of our doing. Look at Europe with it's "No Go Zones" in cities that authorities dare not go into. Outsiders are not welcome,
they are armed, have their own rules of law. Primarily Muslim zones.
I do not wish our country to fall prey to such idiocy. No one is above the law.
I am tired of the twisted phrase, people of color. Is white a color?
What is it BLM and BDS and the intimidation going on campuses, who is behind this? Limiting who is allowed to lecture, and the subject.
Chaos, riots, vandalism, intimidation, antisemitism allowed and encouraged to flourish.
9
Next time the Russians hack our election, they should make sure that they hack BOTH the electoral college and the popular vote (smile).
I do not think that a recount in Pennsylvania will change anything since the vote is not that close. All three states have to turn for the national result to change. And without a recount it is quite possible that even in the other two states, Trump might gain rather than lose.
I did send a donation to Jill Stein, but am wondering now if I made a mistake.
I do not think that a recount in Pennsylvania will change anything since the vote is not that close. All three states have to turn for the national result to change. And without a recount it is quite possible that even in the other two states, Trump might gain rather than lose.
I did send a donation to Jill Stein, but am wondering now if I made a mistake.
7
We will nonetheless learn whether there was foreign interference of our voting systems, and if so, figure out how to prevent it in the future.
Thank you for protecting the integrity of democracy. It cannot and should not be traded for personal gratification.
Thank you for protecting the integrity of democracy. It cannot and should not be traded for personal gratification.
5
We need election reform. The whole system is a mess from apportionment for congress to the use of numerous different systems in the various states (many of which do not include even a way to audit the vote -Diabold); to the length of the campaign and its 'horse race' coverage; not to mention the way it is financed as a game among the 500 richest families in the country.
So how do we change it? I think the audit that Jill Stein will order will be a good start. It won't change the outcome of this election but it will help keep us focused on elections ... and as mentioned above ... there is a lot of work to do.
So how do we change it? I think the audit that Jill Stein will order will be a good start. It won't change the outcome of this election but it will help keep us focused on elections ... and as mentioned above ... there is a lot of work to do.
5
Get. Over. It.
15
I. Will. Not.
It's a good thing Trump or one of his supporters isn't talking recount. Then it would be un-American. But when Hillary might benefit from it - its like misappropriating funds from a charity or felony acts of treason. it's just Hillary - she's special....
16
Get facts straight. No one found Clinton foundation funds diverted to her. Just because Trump has a real track record of fraud, doesn't mean Clinton does. Felony? Then arrest Colin Powell for private servers.
2
Trump did talk very loudly and repeatedly that he thought the system was rigged against him, and had said many times that he would only accept the results if he wins.
There you again again NYTimes. This is not objective reporting, although you may think it is. The supercilious tone makes it very clear you think the concerns are those of Left Wing Nuts. From the moment Trump started claiming that the election was 'rigged" and asking Russia to hack HRC everyone should have been on high alert. The legitimacy of our electoral system is at stake. Given the closeness of the election and the extent to which HRC is ahead in the popular vote, everyone who values the legitimacy of our elections, should be clamoring for an audit and a mandatory recount!
8
Agree wholeheartedly, especially since Trump's son secretly met with Russia supporters in mid October when Trump's popularity took a dive (reported by many UK news outlet, WSJ, Bloomberg). And yet not a word from NYT.
2
It's over. Move on.
13
Yes! Those same intelligence agencies who found weapons of mass destruction where there wasn't any, no chemical weaponry where there was, and no Iranian or North Korean nuclear development. You all believed them then I am sure, so...Oh. Seems you have changed your feckless, prone-to-the-ridiculous, opinions. Once again.
2
Actually, it wasn't intelligence that hoisted the nation on Iraq's WMD petard. Remember how Cheney rode them? Intelligence estimated Iran well off from WMD in 07, when Bush said they were a year out. Intelligence was right. Don't red herring Russian hacking with a phony smoke screen.
I get that this article is focusing on Clinton supporters wanting a recount.
But why not even have a paragraph on the opposing view, unless the article is just trying to rile people up? Nate Silver says (even quoting some NYT sources) that the anomalies disappear after controlling for demographics.
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/demographics-not-hacking-explain-the...
But why not even have a paragraph on the opposing view, unless the article is just trying to rile people up? Nate Silver says (even quoting some NYT sources) that the anomalies disappear after controlling for demographics.
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/demographics-not-hacking-explain-the...
62
Read the entire articla. The opposing view is well represented.
1
Silver's credibility is shot. Predicted a Clinton win.
I'll never pay attention to him again.
I'll never pay attention to him again.
3
Perhaps because Nate Silver had HRC winning the election right up until the very last day. I read everything available, including Nate's article, and while I think it is an effort which appears waiting for that call from the Governor 5 minutes before the execution, it may go a long way towards confirming that the election was valid or compromised. Stein is the one who put up the money for the challenge so it is her concern.
Kind of makes you think that those constant statements from Trump about the election being rigged came from someone who had first hand knowledge of about how it could be done.
16
Outstanding intuition. Just like Birtherism and "Lock Her Up," a Trump ploy to divert our attention so we would just accept the election results without questioning them.
1
first things first. we would need to resolve the fraud that Wasserman-Schultz perpetrated as DNC Chair by using DNC resources to support Clinton instead of the 'democratic nominee'. The race should have been Sanders vs Trump.
I like a good conspiracy theory as much as the next guy, but after the outrage over having to show ID's to vote, the lawsuit would be in the court system for years.
I like a good conspiracy theory as much as the next guy, but after the outrage over having to show ID's to vote, the lawsuit would be in the court system for years.
13
No, resources weren't used to attack Bernie. The DNC people had opinions. They're a political party, remember? It's all about opinion. If they wanted to attack Bernie, it would have been clear. There'd be ads about his record. He made kids videos supporting Eugene Debs, saying only the fight against capitalism was the just war. Plenty of stuff could have been broadcast. It wasn't.
2
Given HRC's proclivity to cheating any and every way possible, I would bet this has played a large factor in her 'popular vote victory'. You have only to look back and see how Bernie Sanders story goes. Not rocket science. The DNC and Soros have created a very vocal minority, with the intention of disrupting this nation and foist a criminal on its' highest office. Disgraceful.
10
It already looks like a criminal, Donald Trump, is heading for that highest office. He just hasn't been convicted yet.
1
Then we'd be stuck with Pence/Satan. Which is worse?
This recount is a 'win" either way.
If it substantiates the published vote faith in the electoral system is maintained.
If it finds a significant discrepancy then that will be explosive news, the cause will be tracked down, and likely people will be punished ... if they can be caught or extradited. If it overturns the election, that would be REALLY big news.
But in the end, either way, faith in the electoral system is maintained.
If it substantiates the published vote faith in the electoral system is maintained.
If it finds a significant discrepancy then that will be explosive news, the cause will be tracked down, and likely people will be punished ... if they can be caught or extradited. If it overturns the election, that would be REALLY big news.
But in the end, either way, faith in the electoral system is maintained.
10
trump was right. the election is rigged - which is why he won. recount now!
8
Someone tell the democrats, they lost! Now get over it.
10
It was Jill Stein, not the democrats.
Do the right thing. Count the votes. Fix the system.
7
Just as Nixon refused to request a recount when he lost to Kennedy in 1960, so should Hillary and her supporters.
2
Just forget about it. If the left is this angry for losing, can you all imagine what would happen if they switch to HC winning? Things would head south very fast.
7
seems they have already headed that way... bring it north again with a recount and some serious movement on how to move the u.s. from a republic into a democracy.
Losing?
You tell 2,000,000 - TWO MILLION people. (Fill every stadium to the brim with them.)
Now tell them Their vote doesn't count!
Tell them, that even though they are in the majority, they will now live under the rule of the despised Trump.
America, Where are YOU ?
America didn't vote for him, Doesn't want him, Did NOT elect him.
Where is our "Government Of the people, By the people, and For the people."?
You tell 2,000,000 - TWO MILLION people. (Fill every stadium to the brim with them.)
Now tell them Their vote doesn't count!
Tell them, that even though they are in the majority, they will now live under the rule of the despised Trump.
America, Where are YOU ?
America didn't vote for him, Doesn't want him, Did NOT elect him.
Where is our "Government Of the people, By the people, and For the people."?
1
Not sure why the article fails to mention that Jill Stein is crowdfunding to ask for recounts in three crucial states. Not a Jill Stein supporter myself, but I think this is an admirable goal. Since she was a candidate and has standing to petition for the recount this is a worthwhile endeavor. Here is the link to the site: https://jillstein.nationbuilder.com/recount
11
And, in her position she can seek that recount that might prove or not hrc's standing. it is a kind act on her part, not much will for action form the american people. Our collective indolence brings its own outcome.
1
I've already contributed and everyone who thinks this election was rigged should contribute also!
2
Played the Man not his policy big mistake
Team Clinton has let me down again. My dog could have won against Don Trump. Bill and Hillary are both responsible for this loss and the disenfranchisement of democratic voters.
I was humiliated when Bill had an affair with young Monica, and then lied about it. I'm enraged by HRC's use of the private email server; that's why you lost Hillary.
Done with the Clinton's
I was humiliated when Bill had an affair with young Monica, and then lied about it. I'm enraged by HRC's use of the private email server; that's why you lost Hillary.
Done with the Clinton's
17
What a troll. And we're supposed to believe you're an actual democrat. Hatred of Clintons is mentally deranged. But then again, so is the man you made president.
3
I think Hillary's email setup was more secure than the state department email. LOL.
If the shoe was on the other foot, you know Team Trump would demand a recount. Remember, he never pledged to accept the outcome of the election.
9
Which would put Hillary in the same league with Trump if she demanded a recount now... that's how hubris backfires sometimes.
What will it do to recount the votes if Clinton is the winner after she's conceded the election to Trump? I don't see Trump stepping away without a fight. And I don't think it will help the country. Whether we like it or not we have Trump as our President-elect, Pence as the VP-elect, and the shift in attitudes that accompanies this change. Clinton won the popular vote but Trump won the votes that count. If people aren't happy about the results of the election there are two answers: one is they should have voted and the other one is they should not have voted third party or write in if that's what they did.
6
It would go a long way to healing the dis-enfranchisement of the u.s. voters.
1
What would tom Lehrer do?
Today, I am thankful that we don't have a President-elect who was careless wit her emails. Instead we can look forward to increasingly disastrous climate change, enormous wildfires, rampant corruption, and maybe a nuclear war. Awesome!
14
Mrs. Clinton is the popular vote president-elect of California and New York. Elsewhere? Not so much. Please get over it. Enough of the whining...
12
Best. Most. Succinct. Put. Down. Today!
If the electoral shoe were on the other foot, and Trump had won the popular vote and Clinton the Electoral College vote, the Clinton campaign would be outraged at the attempt to reverse the outcome and talk about how the right was attempting to undermine our democratic system just to get the result it wants.
This is also happening in Britain re BREXIT, and, again, it is primarily the left, the Champion of the People, with spokespeople like Tony Blair and Polly Toynbee and Jeremy Corbyn, all displaying their massive contempt for democracy when it doesn't go the way they want, for the voters who do not share their views, who do not take responsibility for the mistakes in governance and policies they made or supported that brought that vote about . . . and preferring civil dissension and division to putting up with a swing of the pendulum whose outcomes are not remotely evident yet.
If Hillary Clinton and her campaign had any viable suspicion that wrong vote counts cost her those states, they would have been on it like a duck on a June bug.
All the Jill Stein, Tony Blair, Polly Toynbee, New York TIMES, and Guardian crew are doing is proving to the electorate that democracy is a sham, that their voices are meaningless, and that the intolerance of liberalism and the left for huge swaths of those electorates is not a fantasy, but a vicious, throbbing, and ruthless reality. Because. . . They Know What Is Right For Everyone.
This is also happening in Britain re BREXIT, and, again, it is primarily the left, the Champion of the People, with spokespeople like Tony Blair and Polly Toynbee and Jeremy Corbyn, all displaying their massive contempt for democracy when it doesn't go the way they want, for the voters who do not share their views, who do not take responsibility for the mistakes in governance and policies they made or supported that brought that vote about . . . and preferring civil dissension and division to putting up with a swing of the pendulum whose outcomes are not remotely evident yet.
If Hillary Clinton and her campaign had any viable suspicion that wrong vote counts cost her those states, they would have been on it like a duck on a June bug.
All the Jill Stein, Tony Blair, Polly Toynbee, New York TIMES, and Guardian crew are doing is proving to the electorate that democracy is a sham, that their voices are meaningless, and that the intolerance of liberalism and the left for huge swaths of those electorates is not a fantasy, but a vicious, throbbing, and ruthless reality. Because. . . They Know What Is Right For Everyone.
8
If we do not learn from History, we are doomed to repeat it. Gore gave up on recount in 2000, so gracious, to avoid civil unrest. Result: 2 devastating wars, millions killed or displaced, trillions of our dollars spent on these destabilizing futile wars, and a worldwide financial crisis. That election was" hacked" in my opinion. Obama does not want this election to be challenged, despite recorded evidence that Trump Invited the Russians to interfere. Considering the motley collection of advisers/ cabinet this clown is assembling, W Bush, is looking good. Does no one care about the fate of this nation and the planet, enough to make a fuss?? Help!!!
15
I wonder how you can possibly have written this article without including the contesting of the vote by Jill Stein's campaign, which has actually already happened in one state as of yesterday.
5
I did not know about this movement but thought this same thought just yesterday, that key precincts in swing states might have been hacked! Remember the children's saying to bullies, "What you say is what you are?" That saying occurred to me every time Trump raised the issue of a corrupt, rigged election during the campaign. And believe me, he raised it often.
4
Donald Trump and his minions would be tearing our nation apart had he lost the election despite having a popular vote majority of over two million. I shudder to think what would happen given the added suggestion that voting machines in battleground states had been hacked. Hillary on the other hand has placed the welfare of our nation OVER her political ambitions by refusing to make political hay over this issue, and in so doing has PROVEN her worthiness to be leader of our nation. I nominate our former Secretary of State for the Presidential Medal of Freedom.
5
"I nominate our former Secretary of State for the Presidential Medal of Freedom."
I second your nomination but we'll have to wait for our next Democrat President for it to happen.
I second your nomination but we'll have to wait for our next Democrat President for it to happen.
2
Not that I wouldn't love to see Trump kicked out of the White House, but the fact is that he won fair and square (according to the rules of our constitutionally-mandated election process), and we need to accept that. A recount at this stage would not only be a waste of time and money, but would also be very bad for our country. A successful challenge to Trump's victory is very unlikely, and even making the attempt will only deepen the division that is already threatening to tear our country apart. Clinton-supporters: I understand your feelings. I even share them to some extent. But this is not the way to fix things. We need to accept that Trump will be our next president and channel our energy into minimizing the havoc that his administration will unquestionably wreak on liberal democracy in this country and the rest of the world. Have some faith in the system that has bought our country this far. It's only 4 years, and there are the midterm elections coming up '18 - let's focus on breaking the Right's current stranglehold on the legislative branch, and then move on to putting a decent human being in the Oval Office in 2020!
5
That is rather the point yes? Did he actually win fair and square? There is no federal law that requires electors to vote as they have pledged, but 29 states and the District of Columbia have legal control over how their electors vote in the Electoral College. This means their electors are bound by state law and/or by state or party pledge to cast their vote for the candidate that wins the statewide popular vote. At the same time, this also means that there are 21 states in the union that have no requirements of, or legal control over, their electors. Therefore, despite the outcome of a state’s popular vote, the state’s electors are ultimately free to vote in whatever manner they please, including an abstention, with no legal repercussions. Michigan and Pennsylvania Electorates are required to vote for the candidate that won the popular vote in their state, Wisconsin does not.
Trump supporters want a recount in all states, if that happens!
1
Florida too! Something very fishy about the pre-vote vs. the day-of voting. Audit that state too please.
5
Wow, talk about burying the lead!
"a report by a respected computer scientist and other experts suggesting ... [the] need to manually review paper ballots to assure the election was not hacked."
If I were going to rig an election, I'd want to throw up a smokescreen by being the one yelling about it being rigged in the months leading up to election day!
"a report by a respected computer scientist and other experts suggesting ... [the] need to manually review paper ballots to assure the election was not hacked."
If I were going to rig an election, I'd want to throw up a smokescreen by being the one yelling about it being rigged in the months leading up to election day!
7
While we live in uncertain times, tomorrow, Thanksgiving, enjoy the company of your friends, family and community. Remember the maxim: no politics at the dinner table. (Or make it a game, at least...like say, Trivia Trump.)
Wake up NYT. The last straws have been grasped. Looking forward to some intelligent coverage that promotes vote auditing as a norm regardless of election results. Because it just got real.
4
No, no, no. Don’t you see, if Clinton were to now be put in office you would truly have a civil war AND she would not accomplish anything because Republicans control Congress. This is worse then when Obama was elected into office. We had 8 years of obstructionism.
Let the Republicans go down in flames.
Each of us needs to concentrate on our own states (we need to stop all voter suppression in our states and help ALL potential voters get photo ID so they can vote). Win all elections coming up in 2018. We will then win 2020 with Congress in our favor.
Let the Republicans go down in flames.
Each of us needs to concentrate on our own states (we need to stop all voter suppression in our states and help ALL potential voters get photo ID so they can vote). Win all elections coming up in 2018. We will then win 2020 with Congress in our favor.
4
Meanwhile, the Democrats are actually going down in flames right now. Who knows what will be left of that party in four years. The stupidness of skewing left, when it is obvious that this country does not want a socialist in office to completely ruin what we have left of this country. Trying to turn this into Venezuela.
4
And the Supreme court? That is now rigged also.
The republicans rigged that by not holding hearings to fill the vacancy.
Gerrymandering;
Electoral College;
Rig the supreme court;
This is how republicans rule with a minority.
The republicans rigged that by not holding hearings to fill the vacancy.
Gerrymandering;
Electoral College;
Rig the supreme court;
This is how republicans rule with a minority.
3
There is a reason why the windshield is so big and the rearview mirror is so small.
72
That's nonsense, but it makes perfect sense. Thanks for clearing things up.
There is no evidence for systemic fraud. Look at 538 for the explanation - the demographics of where electronic voting vs paper ballots exist explain all of the supposed discrepancy. Also, none of these states are so close that a recount has any chance of changing the outcome. This will make the Democrats look bad with no upside unless they distance themselves entirely from Jill Stein's recount effort.
FWIW, the Republicans are pulling the same stunt in the NC governor's race, where the Democrat clearly won. Let's not go down to their level.
FWIW, the Republicans are pulling the same stunt in the NC governor's race, where the Democrat clearly won. Let's not go down to their level.
1
It's over. Accept it.
5
Hillary conceded, all counting is moot just like when Gore won the popular vote but lost.
2
i think it's a bit to little to late to change anything at this stage of the game. If staunch Democrats really want to do something worthwhile they should re-start at the grass roots level and turn more of those red states blue by electing Democrat governors and state legislators. If you want to get to the top you must start at the bottom.
3
I would normally say let it go, but hey we're talking about Trump, a lying, cheating, convicted fraud gutter swamp. Would you really put anything past this guy or his crazed supporters. If he has already proven a liar to his supporters and called them Republican morons, anything is possible.
6
Forget hacking, the electronic machines could have been programmed long ago to skew the vote. The CEO of Diebold is a hard-line Republican supporter and those machines could have been rigged from the start.
7
I keep comparing this election and Trump to the Robin Williams character in Man of the Year. in the movie the rude and crude TV comic wins through a computer glitch. The error is discovered and Williams is out of a job, so fingers crossed.
Sore losers stop whining and move on
5
If Trump was in the same situations than Hillary, What he would do? imagine.
2
Am i missing something or has the end result of this election come down to 100k ballots, spread over three states?
One would think any winner in such a scenario would be wise not to overplay their hand... we're looking at you GOP! Trump Corp, there's little hope.
One would think any winner in such a scenario would be wise not to overplay their hand... we're looking at you GOP! Trump Corp, there's little hope.
Books will be written on not just how Mr. Trump won the 2016 election but how Hillary lost the 2016 election. From Whitewater, to cattle futures, the corrupt Clinton foundation that only gives 6% to actual charities, to convincing Mr. Obama to bomb Libya, stealing furniture from the White House, Hiding a top secret server in her bathroom at her house, deleting top secret E mails etc. It wasn't Comey, It was Hillary that lost the election.
7
@PeteNJ ~ Stop distorting the truth! Charity Watch gives the Clinton Foundation an A. Their numbers refute your " 6% to actual charities" claim.
"A charity's Program % is the percentage of its cash budget it spends on Programs relative to Overhead (Fundraising and Management & General Expenses) The Clinton Foundation spends 88% of its cash budget on programs!
https://www.charitywatch.org/ratings-and-metrics/bill-hillary-chelsea-cl...
"A charity's Program % is the percentage of its cash budget it spends on Programs relative to Overhead (Fundraising and Management & General Expenses) The Clinton Foundation spends 88% of its cash budget on programs!
https://www.charitywatch.org/ratings-and-metrics/bill-hillary-chelsea-cl...
4
Failing to adequately campaign in Wisconsin and Michigan, passing out in public at the 9/11 ceremony, going for weeks without a press conference, spending too much time at $100,000 a plate celebrity dinners, baskets of deplorables and not having much of a program except to break a glass ceiling and I'm not Trump. The arrow on her campaign logo should have pointed in the opposite direction and the slogan should have been "I'm with You."
2
I see you watch Faux News and listen to Hannity and Friends.
Thank the stars we the crafty were able to save the nation from that longest running tragedy, "The Clinton Crime Carnaval and Their Cadre of Cronies". As with children, you will thank us when you mature into clear-headed adults. Or, you will not in which case you'd best return to paper ballots and stop hiring arcade game makers with their stupidly accessible operating systems.
2
Let's be honest. Their is no evidence of voter fraud in the 3 states. In the neighboring midwestern states where the ballots were PAPER ballots the results were similar to Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin. In Iowa Trump won by 10% and in the most Democratic midwestern state Minnesota won barely by 2%! So why do you think the results in those other 3 states are inaccurate? Democratic won generally by more votes throughout the country in areas where their are paper ballots because generally paper ballots are mainly used in urban cities where the majority is significantly Democratic voters. These points were made clear last night on MSNBC!
3
Why not let all votes count? Over 2 million in popular vote is significant and ignored.
2
Clinton leads Trump by over 3x the difference of the 2000 Bush/Gore Election. Time to retire the Electoral College relic.
Gore 48.4% Bush 47.9% (0.5%) Vote difference 543,895
Clinton 48.1% Trump 46.5% (1.6%) Vote difference 2,103,941
Gore 48.4% Bush 47.9% Bush -0.5%
543,895
Clinton 48.1% Trump 46.5%
Trump -1.6%
2,103,941
Gore 48.4% Bush 47.9% (0.5%) Vote difference 543,895
Clinton 48.1% Trump 46.5% (1.6%) Vote difference 2,103,941
Gore 48.4% Bush 47.9% Bush -0.5%
543,895
Clinton 48.1% Trump 46.5%
Trump -1.6%
2,103,941
6
This story is very weak on its research and facts...Jill Stein has already promised to challenge the vote and ask for a recount in Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania. Stein raised millions on line in only hours time to pay for the recount in those three battleground States..
7
Get over it sore losers! This system has been around for many decades yet because a non- lib wins the elections, it needs to be verified.. I remember when Bush Jr. had the recount. SMH
4
The system has been around for many decades and ....it's still WRONG and NON-DEMOCRATIC. But yes keep telling yourself that the smaller states need to get equal representation. What a farce.
Well not so fast-
Trump has himself to thank. NO one believes that if Clinton won this way- hacking, using a foreign govt, rabble rousing the white nationalist vote, blabbering about "rigging", and actually WINNNG the popular vote, etc that Trump would be a good sport.
No one.
So you are stuck partly with the junk thinking that Trump put into our election this year. Reap and Sow.
Trump has himself to thank. NO one believes that if Clinton won this way- hacking, using a foreign govt, rabble rousing the white nationalist vote, blabbering about "rigging", and actually WINNNG the popular vote, etc that Trump would be a good sport.
No one.
So you are stuck partly with the junk thinking that Trump put into our election this year. Reap and Sow.
1
Question .. how do the states elect a Governor . by poplar vote . I rest my case !!!
Even if there were no suspicion of foul play, it undermines the legitimacy of the election to know that paper ballots were never counted. They should ALWAYS be counted. We're too cheap to properly fund our elections with the billions of advertising spent on it? Childish. Even if you support Trump, you should still want a recount so that his government isn't seen as illegitimate by the 55 percent of voters that didn't vote for him.
4
What is the matter with the Democrats? Gore didn't demand a full recount when he would have likely won. Now Clinton won't. Why do they roll over so easy?
7
Jill Stein raised the money for the recount..not the Dems
I don't know but I say stand up and shout, recount! Recount!
When Bernie's supporters were angry about the DNC rigging the primary, the Hillary supporters told us we were being ridiculous, stop whining and get over it. Why are the Hillary supporters now refusing to follow their own advice? Face it, Trump won, Hillary lost, time to stop acting like toddlers throwing a tantrum. Grow up.
4
I thought this was being headed up by Jill Stein. The article clearly says it is not the Clinton campaign. That might make a difference to the Bernie folks who hate all things Clinton.
2
I have a bridge to sell to anyone who thinks Jill Stein's recount has anything whatsoever to do with Jill Stein.
1
Statees dont do it ,,, why does the Federal gov do it .. makes absolutely no sense !!!
It looks like Jill Stein has raised the amount necessary to complete the recount from her fundraising page.
3
"Turn those machines back on!!"
"We're ruined!"
Sore losers. You spent our time smugly making sure he would accept the results. He accepts the results.
"But the electoral college, it's unfair."
Would it still be unfair if the situation was flipped? It says in the article you are exhausted. Embrace your exhaust.
"We're ruined!"
Sore losers. You spent our time smugly making sure he would accept the results. He accepts the results.
"But the electoral college, it's unfair."
Would it still be unfair if the situation was flipped? It says in the article you are exhausted. Embrace your exhaust.
2
The Jill Stein campaign is calling for a recount. They are raising money for it now.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/jill-stein-election-recount_us_5835e...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/jill-stein-election-recount_us_5835e...
3
The Democrats have not contested the election. The Green Party has. Jill Stein of the Green Party has asked for recounts in some of the key, close states. She is having no trouble raising the necessary funds. She was on the ballot and has a right to this process according to our laws. I do not know why the TImes is not covering this story which has been covered in the Huffington Post and was at least mentioned on MSNBC.
A recount confirms or discredits the result of an election. If Trump's win is legitimate, he will be president. If the recount uncovers a problem that changes the result, I think the citizens at least have a right to know. I hope that the Democrats will act at that point, but that is a big unknown.
I would like the Times to cover the Jill Stein recount effort and publish the result when available if these recounts do take place.
A recount confirms or discredits the result of an election. If Trump's win is legitimate, he will be president. If the recount uncovers a problem that changes the result, I think the citizens at least have a right to know. I hope that the Democrats will act at that point, but that is a big unknown.
I would like the Times to cover the Jill Stein recount effort and publish the result when available if these recounts do take place.
8
Outstanding comment. Jill Stein has raised over 4 million dollars in less than 48 hours as of 11/24 4:30pm EST. The 3 recount requests will be filed with funding before the candidate deadlines. No updating of this article at all since 11/23. The headline needs to read: "Jill Stein Raises 4 Million and Will File for Vote Recount"
Those of us who supported Bernie Sanders find this to be ironic, in every sense of the term.
6
Dont worry . if sanders was running . it would of been a tax and spend liberal ,, when bush spent more money than anyone in the history of the Presidency .. 1 billion a day .. trump will be the same ,, just wait and see. JOBS JOBS .. cant wait to see that . The trumpsters have been had by a the best con man in history .
Though I'm an old style conservative, all the votes must be counted, verified, certified, etc.. As long as it takes.
5
If you are going to do recounts, do recounts in all the states including the states Clinton won. I heard that the electronic voting machines in Pa were switching votes to Clinton when the voter choose Trump. Why is this not covered?
As a poll worker I can say this.... at the end of the day we have to tally the count on the scanner with the number of voters who signed in to vote. They have to agree or know the reason why. I don't believe I would be concerned about paper ballots with the use of a scanner. What would concern me is the electronic voting machines and who is responsible for the programming. Why are they still being used, especially the ones that have no paper trail.
As a poll worker I can say this.... at the end of the day we have to tally the count on the scanner with the number of voters who signed in to vote. They have to agree or know the reason why. I don't believe I would be concerned about paper ballots with the use of a scanner. What would concern me is the electronic voting machines and who is responsible for the programming. Why are they still being used, especially the ones that have no paper trail.
2
The Democratic Party, of which I am a life-long member, needs to stop bringing a knife to a gunfight. Republicans have always been more adept at getting down and fighting in the mud. If positions were reversed, you can bet the farm the Trump supporters would be clamoring for a recount.
But now, in my opinion, any attempt at reversing the election results would produce a nation even more divided than it is now. Better, should we re-think the Electoral College as a mechanism whose time is past?
But now, in my opinion, any attempt at reversing the election results would produce a nation even more divided than it is now. Better, should we re-think the Electoral College as a mechanism whose time is past?
2
i agree .. the electoral college . it is time to stop the nonsense
Time now for all of our elected officials to actually take part in the American way of life. Time for them to get off the public dole and start putting something back into the system instead of bleeding it dry. Time for them to pay for their own healthcare, their retirement packages and food. Time for them to see what it's like living paycheck to paycheck all the while feeding families, paying their bills, rent etc.
We as an electorate must make them accountable for the mess that we are in, time for them to pitch in without getting their yearly raises and contributing to society as a whole like they ask us to do. Belt tightening should apply to all not just a select few.
We as an electorate must make them accountable for the mess that we are in, time for them to pitch in without getting their yearly raises and contributing to society as a whole like they ask us to do. Belt tightening should apply to all not just a select few.
Dave Wasserman of the Cook Political Report writes:
“Left-wing conspiracy theories of vote rigging” are “pathetic,”
Hillary Clinton has more than 2,000,000 more votes, yet Trump becomes president elect??
What happened to our "Government of the People, By The People, For the People." Hillary should stand up and dispel what is about to become another "Gore Vs W" fiasco.
Republicans maintain control over the majority through Gerrymandering and through the electoral college.
It need to end NOW. The votes of Americans must count, or we live under the rule of a farce as sickening as Trump.!
“Left-wing conspiracy theories of vote rigging” are “pathetic,”
Hillary Clinton has more than 2,000,000 more votes, yet Trump becomes president elect??
What happened to our "Government of the People, By The People, For the People." Hillary should stand up and dispel what is about to become another "Gore Vs W" fiasco.
Republicans maintain control over the majority through Gerrymandering and through the electoral college.
It need to end NOW. The votes of Americans must count, or we live under the rule of a farce as sickening as Trump.!
3
Conservatives have constantly pushed voter ID to assure that the vote isn't tainted.
Wouldn't a recount when there are serious questions of the math not adding up also assure the vote isn't tainted?
Wouldn't a recount when there are serious questions of the math not adding up also assure the vote isn't tainted?
1
Please update your story ASAP - for better or worse, the Jill Stein campaign is crowdfunding to raise money to cover recounts in Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania In less than 24 hours, they have raised over $3.2 million Please do a story on this, and tell us what entity that money is going to, and what protocols will be put in place for transparency and accountability. As your story notes, most of us don't know how recounts work - as the national paper of record, please do timely stories on this. I believe one state recount would have to be filed tomorrow.
4
Despite the fact that many are disappointed in the election results and the existence of the Electoral College i think its high time Clinton supporters accept the reality.Trump is the 45th President of the USA.Is that difficult to accept considering the circumstances ( Eg. Hillary won popular vote)?Yes.However, the more you deny this reality and spend time hoping Clinton can still get into the white house the more precious time and energy you waste.She conceded defeat. Obama welcomed Trump to the White House.Trump has already began filling Cabinet Positions...
Your apprehension,anxiety and shock regarding Trump is valid.
Nevertheless,the fact remains he is your president.
PS;I'm neither an American nor a Trump supporter.I'm just a concerned human.
Your apprehension,anxiety and shock regarding Trump is valid.
Nevertheless,the fact remains he is your president.
PS;I'm neither an American nor a Trump supporter.I'm just a concerned human.
1
There is little doubt what Donald "I won't accept the result unless I win" Trump, and, for that matter, the Republican Party would do in this situation... And, I for one, am tired of the "nice guy" Democratic Party folding to every whim and whimper of this rabid tribal minority...
If Hillary Clinton and the Democratic Party refuse to stand up for the majority of the people who voted in this election, then they need to be replaced with a new party.
The last time the Democratic Party rolled over, the corrupt GOP stole Florida, and we got eight years of Republican Supreme Court appointee, George "Mission Accomplished!" Bush. And we all know how that turned out.
If Hillary Clinton and the Democratic Party refuse to stand up for the majority of the people who voted in this election, then they need to be replaced with a new party.
The last time the Democratic Party rolled over, the corrupt GOP stole Florida, and we got eight years of Republican Supreme Court appointee, George "Mission Accomplished!" Bush. And we all know how that turned out.
2
Too late, perhaps, to undo the FBI coup d'etat and its Bannonite takeover. However, these recounts should go forward. They can only weaken the dictator-in-waiting.
3
This article missed Jill Stein's announcement yesterday that since Hillary never would, she's going to challenge in those three states--all she needed was the money for the fees. She was closing in on two million last night, hours after the announcement.
4
Strange. Before this it was the Republicans who talked about fraud. Now the Democrats are demanding a recount. This could turn into 2000 Florida election. History repeats. Hanging chads anyone?
why the awful pic with this article? really? there aren't thousands of others to choose from? this one implies brokenness and hopelessness -- not what the audit/recount is about. it appears biassed.
For all of you Hillary supporters on this site complaining about a "rigged" election, you sound a lot like Trump when he thought he would lose. Get over the simple fact that he won by the rules of the game and do something useful: expend some of your energy or wealth rebuilding the Democratic party.
4
Anything and everything should be done to get the white supremacist Trump out of office
2
remember how the democrats laughed at trump when he said he wasn't sure if he would concede? turns out that was pretty funny! pot meet kettle.
3
I would like to point out that in 2008 Hillary won the popular vote in the Democrat primary, but Obama was the nominee. Was anyone complaining back then? I don't think so, I think everyone accepted that we live in a republic and not a "democracy".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Party_presidential_primaries,_2008
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Party_presidential_primaries,_2008
3
Lose gracefully, for crying out loud. This is getting silly.
1
The Green Party is paying for the recounts and needs donations.
4
Here we are raising the Russia bugaboo again.
All this talk here--and for a long time in the media--that Russia hacked the emails is merely pro-Clinton political propaganda; there is no evidence. In fact, James Clapper said recently we don't know who hacked the emails but they've all but ruled out Russia.
The latest theory is that the hacks were from inside Rogers' NSA, which is why there are calls now for Obama to relieve Rogers of his job. And perhaps this is why Trump is considering Rogers for a job in his administration.
All this talk here--and for a long time in the media--that Russia hacked the emails is merely pro-Clinton political propaganda; there is no evidence. In fact, James Clapper said recently we don't know who hacked the emails but they've all but ruled out Russia.
The latest theory is that the hacks were from inside Rogers' NSA, which is why there are calls now for Obama to relieve Rogers of his job. And perhaps this is why Trump is considering Rogers for a job in his administration.
“The Democratic Party and the Hillary campaign are exhausted, and they’re really hurting, and they may not have the clarity,” said Ms. Zuckerman-Parker, who briefly volunteered for the Clinton campaign.
Well snap out of it! It's your civic duty to do all you can to ensure that the will of the American people will be carried out on inauguration day (to the extent that it can be carried out under our electoral system, that is).
Well snap out of it! It's your civic duty to do all you can to ensure that the will of the American people will be carried out on inauguration day (to the extent that it can be carried out under our electoral system, that is).
1
Let's audit the general election right after we audit the democratic primary. Maybe Bernie can be President after all
2
The photo at the top of the article made me laugh.
I wonder what the rate of correct responses would be if you stopped people on the street in all the swing states Clinton lost and you asked people to name her running mate.
I'll be glad when all the second-guessing and finger-pointing about her loss is over.
I read the other day that Clinton didn't even bother to campaign in Wisconsin.
She was arrogant and lazy...that's why she lost.
Good riddance.
I wonder what the rate of correct responses would be if you stopped people on the street in all the swing states Clinton lost and you asked people to name her running mate.
I'll be glad when all the second-guessing and finger-pointing about her loss is over.
I read the other day that Clinton didn't even bother to campaign in Wisconsin.
She was arrogant and lazy...that's why she lost.
Good riddance.
6
This is why Democrats keep on losing when we should win. We just dont have the will to win.
That these maschines are prone to be manipulated and "rigged" was inevitable. There is a reason that other countries, who do not shout 24/7 "we are the greatest democracy" do not use these maschines as they can be easily hacked:
http://europe.newsweek.com/europe-rejects-digital-voting-machines-80085?...
http://www.cs.ru.nl/B.Jacobs/PAPERS/E-votingHistory.pdf
Even the FBI, yes, that very reliable GOP subsidiary, let us in that the system was hacked: https://www.yahoo.com/news/fbi-says-foreign-hackers-penetrated-000000175...
Well, I guess Crook-elect was on to something when he said that the election was rigged. His dismissal to accept the outcome was simply based on the knowledge at the debate, that the GOP had mainpulated to the vote to the end that it should create a small enough margin to discredit permanently the legitimacy of a Clinton presidency, by dragging out the acceptance of the defeat. Their accomplices just went overboard (like the woman who voted twice for him " to make sure"), and now they are stunned to have "won surprisingly", all battleground states...and it is he (remember not to mention his name) who is now the no mandate character.
Let's recount, just for the sanity of knowing doubling down is always better, especially in the light of having otherwise a buffon turning the White House into a white supremacist golf course resort.... we are truly turning into a banana republic.
http://europe.newsweek.com/europe-rejects-digital-voting-machines-80085?...
http://www.cs.ru.nl/B.Jacobs/PAPERS/E-votingHistory.pdf
Even the FBI, yes, that very reliable GOP subsidiary, let us in that the system was hacked: https://www.yahoo.com/news/fbi-says-foreign-hackers-penetrated-000000175...
Well, I guess Crook-elect was on to something when he said that the election was rigged. His dismissal to accept the outcome was simply based on the knowledge at the debate, that the GOP had mainpulated to the vote to the end that it should create a small enough margin to discredit permanently the legitimacy of a Clinton presidency, by dragging out the acceptance of the defeat. Their accomplices just went overboard (like the woman who voted twice for him " to make sure"), and now they are stunned to have "won surprisingly", all battleground states...and it is he (remember not to mention his name) who is now the no mandate character.
Let's recount, just for the sanity of knowing doubling down is always better, especially in the light of having otherwise a buffon turning the White House into a white supremacist golf course resort.... we are truly turning into a banana republic.
2
Touchscreen machines are very problematic. My state had gone to such machines but now we are back with physically marked ballots which are then scanned. They leave a true audit trail.
It is extremely unlikely that these three states' results could be reversed simultaneously but overall states should revert back to marked ballots which are then scanned. This is important not just for national elections but also for statewide and local elections.
It is extremely unlikely that these three states' results could be reversed simultaneously but overall states should revert back to marked ballots which are then scanned. This is important not just for national elections but also for statewide and local elections.
All things considered, "Probably not" or "highly unlikely" is not reassuring. We need near certainty.
1
Canadians need to be certain about the results of a presidential election in the United States? Relax. Trump does not plan to invade...
1
Clinton lost. Trump won. He won fair and square. Stop whining, stop trying to wiggle out of this. Hillary was not a good candidate from the start and she stole the nomination from Bernie Sanders who would have done much better against Trump. Maybe he would have won. Hes too old to run again so that is it for him as well. The liberals shot themselves in the foot. They coddled a flawed, heavy maintenance candidate who did some totally unethical things to get the nomination. Why? Because she is a woman. They didnt stop to consider that maybe its not about being a woman or not but what kind of woman or person you are.
2
It's official, the progressives are now sounding and acting like the alt-right used to.
2
All votes need to be recounted and verified. This should include all absentee ballots from military folks and other American citizens who were unable to make it to their local polling place,.
4
Were the shoe on the other foot, Trump would have filed hundreds of lawsuits by now, challenging basically every count that he lost. Keep in mind that he did indeed file legal challenges to THIS election, before polls even closed. Please don't reflexively call this a partisan issue. There ought to be concern when experts point to signs that there could have been outside influence, particularly since pro-Trump outsiders were heavily involved well before the election. I don't have a suggestion for how to proceed with this. I just want there to be some semblance of objectivity. Remember, the president-elect spent nearly the entire presidency of Obama opening challenging HIS legitimacy to be president, with the lying birther charge. The democrats will behave as they always have behaved - with focus on what is good for the country and for our democracy, which is in stark contrast to the newly "elected" president.
8
Grasping at straws. Nice try. it's over. By the way why are Democrats so against showing ID to be able to vote? Because they want to steal elections. That's why. So far we know that at least 10% of Illegal Aliens voted in this elections. If we know we have around 20 million Illegal Aliens in the US, that puts the number of Illegal voters around 2 million.
3
you are delusional. Facts my friend, facts
Best comment.
She Lost for Many important reasons. She is dishonest, she lies, she has Avery difficult time staying within the law And she is Not Likable. Go home woman and get out of our public life.
1
Surely then, we must go back to the man (many) don't believe was qualified to be president. Birth, corruption in voting, threats, dead people, absentee ballots. Yha let's get it on you sickening cry babies. Hold your whining till isis take over in this great country when atrocitys of unimaginable proportions take place. See if you'll sob then. Oh you will but for a different reason.
1
I read that it is actually Jill Stein's folks heading this up.
The stink of possible cheating has glommed onto Trump because of his own incessant "rigging the election" talk. Desperado Donald will just have to deal with its stink settling on him now.
Help from the Russian government hackers reeked of Nixonian dirty tricks. It didnt help that it got a pass from an uninterested press and a clearly politicized FBI. He is losing the popular vote by millions so his win is part abstraction, which he doesnt like.
The cardboard crown is never going to feel "real" to a guy like Trump.
The stink of possible cheating has glommed onto Trump because of his own incessant "rigging the election" talk. Desperado Donald will just have to deal with its stink settling on him now.
Help from the Russian government hackers reeked of Nixonian dirty tricks. It didnt help that it got a pass from an uninterested press and a clearly politicized FBI. He is losing the popular vote by millions so his win is part abstraction, which he doesnt like.
The cardboard crown is never going to feel "real" to a guy like Trump.
3
Now it is the Clinton supporters crying that the election was rigged. My, how the tables have turned!
2
Truly sad. First, the press whips up some soot about a transition in crisis in a pathetic attempt to influence the picks. That didn't work so now they go after the very legitimacy of the election. Try to understand and accept this very simple concept: no one cares what you think or about the "news" you manufacture.
2
Do a sampling recount of the state's in question, then decide.
1
The Pennsylvania machines are never connected the the internet and in fact cannot be technically. Those machines -- and there are thousands all over the Commonwealth -- are dumb. That is, without an inserted cartridge, they have no memory to program.
The cartridges are delivered with the machines and examined in the presence of certified watchers from all parties before the polls open at 7am. Each cartridge has a counter which is the number of votes cast during the last election on the machine in which the counter was inserted. That' s the initial number.
After the polls close at 8pm, the cartridges are again viewed by all to determine the final number. The difference between the initial and final numbers is the total number of voters who voted on that machine. That total number cannot be more than the total number of voters who sign the record book-- which is yet another check.
The machine then prints out a paper report which repeats those initial and final numbers plus votes cast for each candidate. The duplicate printed reports are signed by all members of the election board and given to the watchers for all sides.
NO machine has ever recorded more votes for opposing candidates that exceed the total voter number. The cartridges can't be programmed prior to any election. Even if they could, consider they are securely held under lock in each of the states 67 counties and cannot be connected to the internet.
The cartridges are delivered with the machines and examined in the presence of certified watchers from all parties before the polls open at 7am. Each cartridge has a counter which is the number of votes cast during the last election on the machine in which the counter was inserted. That' s the initial number.
After the polls close at 8pm, the cartridges are again viewed by all to determine the final number. The difference between the initial and final numbers is the total number of voters who voted on that machine. That total number cannot be more than the total number of voters who sign the record book-- which is yet another check.
The machine then prints out a paper report which repeats those initial and final numbers plus votes cast for each candidate. The duplicate printed reports are signed by all members of the election board and given to the watchers for all sides.
NO machine has ever recorded more votes for opposing candidates that exceed the total voter number. The cartridges can't be programmed prior to any election. Even if they could, consider they are securely held under lock in each of the states 67 counties and cannot be connected to the internet.
3
Sad to see the Democratic supporters once again not walking the walking on what the espouse (but hey bathing in your arrogance will do that to you). Even in this article it's clear there are no real lines of protest in terms of the vote, just a bunch of people who don't like the result, which shows they are the problem. In an American electoral process with only two options you are only showing your ignorance if you are surprised a Democrat or Republican ever wins. So I would suggest to the Democratic supporters to remember in two-years you have an election and can shake things up. Why not then pay real attention instead of embarrassing yourself with a never-ending hissy fit.
Jill Stein, the Green party presidential candidate, will file for a recount in Wisconsin tomorrow. And for Pennsylvania and Michigan next week. Let the recount being!
4
I am so tired of the Democrats rolling over and taking it. Do the recount.
3
Today's electoral college system is a modification of the system we started with. We did not have popular vote. As I recall, state legislators elected the electors.
Popular election of our leadership was considered a frightening prospect by ALL of the founding fathers. Mob action threatened democracy, said Aristotle and Plato. Not one political philosopher sought popular election of the president. Even our senate was to be selected by state legislature back when.
Why did they fear mob rule?
What did socialist Bernard "Bernie" Sanders seek for us?
Why has Trump cautioned us about the Federal debt bomb?
Trip Gabriel and David E. Sanger are mature, seasoned reporters. I caution each. Cover this with the comparison that fits: when Richard M. Nixon learned what happened in Cook County, did he call for a body count of the dead in Illinois? Leaders in Chicago knew. Richard Daley had managed well. The Merchandise Mart had spoken. The bootlegging hootch merchant from Boston by way of Canada had a friend in Cook County.
Richard Nixon, notably disliked by so many, did not wish a destabilizing crisis. The election may have been stolen. He did not utter those words.
Serious reporters do not believe the Russians tampered. The polls are not on line. Start there.
A past Democrat governor of Pennsylvania expressed himself well today. He said, forget it.
Mr. Gabriel, David Sanger, you are too smart for this.
Popular election of our leadership was considered a frightening prospect by ALL of the founding fathers. Mob action threatened democracy, said Aristotle and Plato. Not one political philosopher sought popular election of the president. Even our senate was to be selected by state legislature back when.
Why did they fear mob rule?
What did socialist Bernard "Bernie" Sanders seek for us?
Why has Trump cautioned us about the Federal debt bomb?
Trip Gabriel and David E. Sanger are mature, seasoned reporters. I caution each. Cover this with the comparison that fits: when Richard M. Nixon learned what happened in Cook County, did he call for a body count of the dead in Illinois? Leaders in Chicago knew. Richard Daley had managed well. The Merchandise Mart had spoken. The bootlegging hootch merchant from Boston by way of Canada had a friend in Cook County.
Richard Nixon, notably disliked by so many, did not wish a destabilizing crisis. The election may have been stolen. He did not utter those words.
Serious reporters do not believe the Russians tampered. The polls are not on line. Start there.
A past Democrat governor of Pennsylvania expressed himself well today. He said, forget it.
Mr. Gabriel, David Sanger, you are too smart for this.
1
As Charles Blow states in his current, powerful column:
"I also believe that much of your campaign was an act of psychological projection, as we are now learning that many of the things you slammed Clinton for are things of which you may actually be guilty. You slammed Clinton for destroying emails, then Newsweek reported last month that your companies “destroyed emails in defiance of court orders.” You slammed Clinton and the Clinton Foundation for paid speeches and conflicts of interest, then it turned out that, as BuzzFeed reported, the Trump Foundation received a $150,000 donation in exchange for your giving a 2015 speech made by video to a conference in Ukraine. You slammed Clinton about conflicts of interest while she was secretary of state, and now your possible conflicts of interest are popping up like mushrooms in a marsh."
Trump's closing argument was that the election was rigged against him. Recount the votes! Fool me once, can't get fooled again!
"I also believe that much of your campaign was an act of psychological projection, as we are now learning that many of the things you slammed Clinton for are things of which you may actually be guilty. You slammed Clinton for destroying emails, then Newsweek reported last month that your companies “destroyed emails in defiance of court orders.” You slammed Clinton and the Clinton Foundation for paid speeches and conflicts of interest, then it turned out that, as BuzzFeed reported, the Trump Foundation received a $150,000 donation in exchange for your giving a 2015 speech made by video to a conference in Ukraine. You slammed Clinton about conflicts of interest while she was secretary of state, and now your possible conflicts of interest are popping up like mushrooms in a marsh."
Trump's closing argument was that the election was rigged against him. Recount the votes! Fool me once, can't get fooled again!
4
The article fails to mention the Jill Stein's fundraising drive for the recount which has already surpassed $2.5 million. Maybe the Times should send their Green Party correspondent Noah Remnick to cover the story.
3
Let's "drain the swamp" starting by Comey's FBI and the controversial voting machines. With the help of a rigged system Trump "won" the electoral vote. The election was stolen.
3
Good thing the media was so concerned about Trump and his supporters accepting the election results!
For the sake of democracy itself, the votes in these key states should be recounted.
This election has been unsettling. The interference of state actors (probably Russia) and the behavior of the FBI in and of themselves are unprecedented and frightening.
Republicans as well as Democrats should be terribly concerned. Thus a recount is the very least that should be done followed by or concurrent with investigations in this mess.
Finally the EC should be abolished once and for all. Of course the Electors might actually do their jobs and support the candidate who has the popular vote AND who is actually qualified for the job. I'll believe that when I see it.
So, enough. Bush v Gore was a farce that evolved into global tragedy. And, there's no reason why the majority of American voters should be disenfranchised in this so-called "democracy."
This election has been unsettling. The interference of state actors (probably Russia) and the behavior of the FBI in and of themselves are unprecedented and frightening.
Republicans as well as Democrats should be terribly concerned. Thus a recount is the very least that should be done followed by or concurrent with investigations in this mess.
Finally the EC should be abolished once and for all. Of course the Electors might actually do their jobs and support the candidate who has the popular vote AND who is actually qualified for the job. I'll believe that when I see it.
So, enough. Bush v Gore was a farce that evolved into global tragedy. And, there's no reason why the majority of American voters should be disenfranchised in this so-called "democracy."
7
Right. Let me guess, "honest" and "trustworthy" democrats should do the counting?
You can't "hack" devices that are not connected to the internet & I don't know of any voting machines which are -- it would be idiotic to connect any of 'em. To "hack" an electronic voting machine you'd have to have physical access to it & time to modify it or install software to make it count the way you want. And in order to alter the vote in just one county you'd have to do that to a majority (if not all) the machines in that county. A majority of the machines in one State? Yeah, right. Or in multiple States? Albert Einstein couldn't figure out how to do it without getting caught. Focus your attention on the estimated 3 million votes cast by illegal immigrants & any advantage Clinton may have in the popular vote is erased. Democrats are the biggest hypocrites in the world -- making a huge fuss over whether or not Trump would accept the outcome, but as usual, acting like children with temper-tantrums when things don't go their way. Look @ a county-by-county red/blue map instead of a state-by-state one -- it's overwhelmingly red & red in a lot of "blue states". The people who actually work for a living have spoken no more Clinton, Inc.
4
yes, that's why they gave her over two million votes more than to the other guy.
2
I guess you didn't read the article, Art Northrup Jr.
Albert Einstein would have at least read the article first.
And by the way, I started working when I was 14 years old. Well into my 50's now. Been working very hard my whole life. Always have. Always will. And I voted for Clinton - Not the guy who's dad handed him $14mil as a young man to "start" his career.
Albert Einstein would have at least read the article first.
And by the way, I started working when I was 14 years old. Well into my 50's now. Been working very hard my whole life. Always have. Always will. And I voted for Clinton - Not the guy who's dad handed him $14mil as a young man to "start" his career.
2
Where are the temper tantrums in this article? This article refers to careful empirical analyses conducted by computer science experts. It merely reports the story. You don't like it. I get it. Interestingly, I don't much like it either. Biggest hypocrites in the world? LOL. You share a tendency for the superlative, just like your leader. How bigly of you, in victory.
1
Why must America always look for Justice in arrears? We never learn from history or else we'd have gotten a lot more right over the years. So who do we have to pay off to get a fair election? Taxpayers had better get their credit card away from Trump before he spends us into even more debt and this time much of it to feather his own nest. Watch, its coming, he can't help himself and the kicker is he's trying to keep our ability to even check in on the quid pro quos under covers. In the coming months everyone will know the definition of "quid pro quo".
4
And good for Ms. Stein's efforts for a recall.
"Winning" the presidency with an underwhelming electoral vote count while massively losing the popular vote, losing 2 Senate seats, and losing 6 House seats is NOT a "mandate."
"Winning" the presidency with an underwhelming electoral vote count while massively losing the popular vote, losing 2 Senate seats, and losing 6 House seats is NOT a "mandate."
4
"Ignore sunk costs" is among the worst known optimization principles, even among the highly educated.
A lot of money and sweat were poured into this election, but that doesn't matter now. We should always direct resources toward endeavors with the highest expectated return on investment, without regard to how much we've already spent on any particular undertaking.
Simply put, these recounts consume money and energy which could be spent much better elsewhere.
A lot of money and sweat were poured into this election, but that doesn't matter now. We should always direct resources toward endeavors with the highest expectated return on investment, without regard to how much we've already spent on any particular undertaking.
Simply put, these recounts consume money and energy which could be spent much better elsewhere.
Perhaps the Clinton campaign can do a Comey: issue a detailed statement outlining all of the evidence supporting vote manipulation, but conclude that there is no reasonable basis to challenge the results.
2
Late ballots are the key. Plenty of legally valid excuses if Democrats push and entice every non-voter before deadlines. Recount will include those.
3
Well now we know the Leftist Democratic Party doesn't know how to lose gracefully. Republican majorities in Governors, State Assemblies, the House of Representatives, the U.S. Senate and now a Republican White House.
The Democrats don't have a clue on who the American People want to govern our nation. The most intensive political propaganda media effort failed to elect Hillary Clinton. Now clutching at sour grape straws, Democrats are attempting a political coup to capture the White House. Not going to happen.
FYI: the Clinton Dynasty Democratic Party is DEAD. Rediscover your FDR progressive roots or become extinct.
The Democrats don't have a clue on who the American People want to govern our nation. The most intensive political propaganda media effort failed to elect Hillary Clinton. Now clutching at sour grape straws, Democrats are attempting a political coup to capture the White House. Not going to happen.
FYI: the Clinton Dynasty Democratic Party is DEAD. Rediscover your FDR progressive roots or become extinct.
5
2000 taught me that no election should ever be over until every last vote is verified. Although the outcome is highly unlikely to change, consider if the situation were reversed.
Donald Trump made very clear that he would spare no effort to de-legitimize Hillary Clinton to his dying breath, just as he did with President Obama in 2012.
Such politicking is more than vile, but perhaps the Democrats need to fight fire with fire to avoid going up in a GOP crafted funeral pyre.
www.endthemadnessnow.org
Donald Trump made very clear that he would spare no effort to de-legitimize Hillary Clinton to his dying breath, just as he did with President Obama in 2012.
Such politicking is more than vile, but perhaps the Democrats need to fight fire with fire to avoid going up in a GOP crafted funeral pyre.
www.endthemadnessnow.org
6
The NBC NEWS website has an altogether different version of this story, in that it focuses on Jill Stein and the Green Party as the prime movers in this drive for a recount in key states where Trump's victory had been completely unexpected. It would be ironic if the Greens, whose own votes amounted to barely a blip next to those of the major candidates, were to emerge as the ultimate heroes of the 2016 Presidential Election by establishing not only that Hillary Clinton actually won in Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin, but also by establishing that the election process in those states had been tampered with by Intelligence apparatchiks in the service of a foreign dictator in support of Donald Trump.
7
Personally I doubt a recount would change much. For me the tragedy is what will, and should not, happen to SCOTUS. The republicans in the senate were blatantly violating the constitution while coming up with childish justifications and I expect privately were shocked that democrats were just sitting back and allowing it. The president should have used his bully pulpit to denounce the move constantly. A challenge should have gone in front of the remaining court justices. Obviously the fact that the constitution doesn't specify how quickly the senate must act on a nomination doesn't mean an obstructionist group can delay until there is a president they prefer. That's a trick a young child would attempt and yet it succeeded brilliantly. Now it is part of precedent and will be used to justify more unconstitutional behavior in the future and that bodes poorly for the future of our democracy.
3
Seriously, our democracy is done. Really over. Why would we believe otherwise? Remember those same republican senators said that they would refuse to vote on a SCOTUS replacement for an entire Clinton presidency. Not one major player in the republican party has the nerve to stand up to our new autocrat. Long live the king.
1
How disingenuous of Trump supporters now demanding that the majority of voters "accept the outcome" after listening to their candidate crow about a "rigged" election for months. A recount will either confirm their candidates legitimacy, or uncover voter fraud... Either way, with razor thin margins combined with all of the statistical anomalies, for the sake of American democracy, a recount is essential. What are they afraid of, anyway?
What are they afraid of?
What are they afraid of?
8
Time should be spent on rebuilding the Democratic Party with a renewed focus on the middle class. If the middle class thrives it so too do the rich and poor. Focus on jobs, reduced taxes on the middle class (start federal taxes at the medium family income), reduce FICA taxes by 1% for all workers and include ALL income in FICA tax calculations, lower student debt interest to no more than lowest mortgage rates, etc,. Clean house while we have a chance. A party returning to the ideals of Truman, Kennedy and Carter (yes Carter. His accomplishments outshine any other president in the latter half of the 20th Century and first part of the 21th) is what America needs.
4
I'm not concerned about the low chance of success. If there is ANY chance of success, with ANY strategy to keep a fascist dictator out of the presidency, we must take it.
6
Actually Jill Stein is fundraising right now to file for these recount and audits! She just raised over $2 million for Wisconsin. Where is the coverage on this? She is filing tomorrow.
6
Denial is supposed to be the first stage of grief, Democrats should be well into Bargaining at this point.
2
I wonder why the article hasn't mentioned the fact that Jill Stein has raised almost $3.5MM in 24 hours to file the recount in all three states.
8
Or, maybe we should just sit back and do nothing?