Scrolling through the article and the comments, there are many references to Ms. LePen being racist and "anti-Semitic." Other than some of the past sentiments of her father (whom she expelled from the party), what is the basis of or evidence for painting her with this brush? It seems like that was the same smear applied to Mr. Trump, whose deep affection and high regard for his son-in-law Jared Kushner and his daughter--who converted--is obvious. Pierre Rosanvallon was right about needing "self-criticism." As was learned in Brexit and the devastating "blue" losses in the US, do people still believe they can win battles by labeling large swaths of the population as "deplorable" and "racist"? Take the example of the refugee situation: Rightly or misguidedly, a large proportion of British, Americans and--Yes!--Europeans do not want it. Instead of setting about a smart Madison Avenue style campaign to try and change hearts and minds, the elitist leaders (and this includes Mr. Obama) simply made these decisions by edict, labeling those who felt differently ignorant, doubling down by announcing he would take even more when there were loud voices of dissent. Add to that the suffering of people out-of-work and voicing feelings (rightly or wrongly) that we no longer could afford all the economic consequences of a large influx of refugees, along with the added security risks they perceived might accompany this. Why the surprise about the ensuing revolution?
33
A few years ago,I read a book by a journalist from Iowa called The Rise And Fall Of The Third Reich.And yes,I read the first page and the last page and all the notes in between.I would recommend this book to any student of history.
First is your humiliation as a country to have lost a war,followed by a Democratic government followed by a Great Depression followed by a beer hall brawler followed by a promise of jobs for all.We will make Germany Great Again.
Followed by World War 11.
Someone once said,"If you don't know History,it's bound to repeat itself.
First is your humiliation as a country to have lost a war,followed by a Democratic government followed by a Great Depression followed by a beer hall brawler followed by a promise of jobs for all.We will make Germany Great Again.
Followed by World War 11.
Someone once said,"If you don't know History,it's bound to repeat itself.
12
The Le Pen National Front is to me tragedy in the making.
Reality is being changed by BREXIT, Trump, and the growing populist if not outright fascist European parties.
I think this isn't good, duh.
The internet, which I certainly enjoy too, is also a medium for ill.
A few minutes ago I was astounded by fuzzy, apparently photo-shopped
horse-apples sensationally suggesting ghosts & Bigfoot as near credible facts of reality.
I won't risk a libel suit, while I perceive there are probably dozens if not hundreds if not thousands of websites that are making-up lies and hoaxes.
This is overall not good at all for the progress of "enlightened civilization," whatever the phrase means to us as individuals/ readers/viewers.
Goebbels is a fact because he exists (the historical present, please) big time, and is continuously manipulating/propagandizing but on massive global scale with deliberate distortions in bad faith.
Whether ye & me, the readers are sincerely Left, Right, and/or populist prone, we are all in an awesome mess.
Marshal McLuhan, prophet/explainer of technologies' influence, probably wouldn't be too shocked.
Reality is being changed by BREXIT, Trump, and the growing populist if not outright fascist European parties.
I think this isn't good, duh.
The internet, which I certainly enjoy too, is also a medium for ill.
A few minutes ago I was astounded by fuzzy, apparently photo-shopped
horse-apples sensationally suggesting ghosts & Bigfoot as near credible facts of reality.
I won't risk a libel suit, while I perceive there are probably dozens if not hundreds if not thousands of websites that are making-up lies and hoaxes.
This is overall not good at all for the progress of "enlightened civilization," whatever the phrase means to us as individuals/ readers/viewers.
Goebbels is a fact because he exists (the historical present, please) big time, and is continuously manipulating/propagandizing but on massive global scale with deliberate distortions in bad faith.
Whether ye & me, the readers are sincerely Left, Right, and/or populist prone, we are all in an awesome mess.
Marshal McLuhan, prophet/explainer of technologies' influence, probably wouldn't be too shocked.
4
Trump hit in direct terms on the biggest existential threat to our western civilization, which is, and will remain for a long time to come, the pardoning by the liberals of an Islam/muslim ideology, whether by religious or cultural loyalty , seeping insidiously into our midst, without apology on their part, and furiously welcomed by the "political correct" delegations. The poor attempt to point to statistics that jihadists are "just a fringe minority", eliminates the math that out of a 1.6 billion muslims, that fringe minority still adds up to the size of the entire US population, who has openly stated it wants us infidels dead, and those are the ones daring to say it out loud. Just like many Trump voters, add to that, the silent majority. I hope she wins. This has to stop.
19
Other than the US President, the French President is elected in a mostly democratic way: Majority of the popular vote, run-off vote among the two leading candidates in case this is not reached; no electorial college, and especially no "winner takes it all" system. Other than the American system, the French system honours the "one voter, one vote" principle, at least in the run-off. Thus, Le Pen's chance to win should not be as high as DJT's.
1
We must all work for a Le Pen victory. Lets keep France for the French, Germany for the Germans, England for the Brtis and the USA for American citizens. Nationalism and the working class trump globalism and the elites.
13
Going by the polls, Marine's chances are good. However I fear, as with Hillary's candidacy in the States, that misogyny festering in the French id will prevent her from shattering the glass ceiling. Here's hoping that's not the case. I'm with Her.
10
I wrote a book in which Marine's père figured extensively - and I have met her. I also interviewed two of her activists a couple of weeks ago for a BBC radio documentary. In my view the question commonly posed by the French elite, namely whether the Front has 'changed' since the unglory days of Jean- Marie, is not the right one. Of course Marine has changed the Front's appearance - because the old style café racism laces with antisemitism had no future. More relevant is what sort of government she would install in France. Her Front would imply a return to France's most dark days. It would destroy the last vestiges of moral authority of French Republicanism. And it would lead to the exit of France, certainly from the Euro and most likely the EU, thus leading to the disintegration of Europe. Many people - maybe the President-Elect - want this to happen, or don't care of it does. But anyone who still believes that democracy has a future should care. The Front are not democrats. They do not believe in pluralism. As a very intelligent supporter of Marine said to me - and many of supporters now are young - 'France lacks Order. We believe it has gone far enough. We believe in Order.' I heard this at the old Front, and there is no change here. You could have heard it anywhere in Europe during the 1930s. Let's not go there again.
11
I just got back from Paris. My friend said she voted for Hollande because of his "vision economique". Now that "vision"is costing her about 500 euros more a month in taxes, all told, she will consider someone with a "vision culturelle", especially that her cat is considered "impure" by her neighbors.
11
This is a good article and it sent me over to look at today's Le Monde. And yes, the race among the Republican candidates in their upcoming primary is tightening and Nicholas Sarkozy might be able to overtake Alain Juppe. The other candidates are also scoring points and some are attracting additional support.
If Sarkozy does win the Republican nomination, it would seem to me that he is a "me, too" candidate who will be running against Marine Le Pen's "the real deal." Why should voters choose the echo when the original voice is in the election? And Sarkozy has even more "has been" around him than Hillary Clinton.
If the French people decide to make the presidential election a change election, that change in attitude itself with be an earthquake. If French voters want to shake things up, sending Marine Le Pen to the Elysee will get that done -- very directly.
If Sarkozy does win the Republican nomination, it would seem to me that he is a "me, too" candidate who will be running against Marine Le Pen's "the real deal." Why should voters choose the echo when the original voice is in the election? And Sarkozy has even more "has been" around him than Hillary Clinton.
If the French people decide to make the presidential election a change election, that change in attitude itself with be an earthquake. If French voters want to shake things up, sending Marine Le Pen to the Elysee will get that done -- very directly.
4
We most hope for a Le Pen victory. Lets all work to keep France for the French, Germany for the Germans, the England for the British and the USA for USA citizens. Nationalism trumps globalism.
23
For those of us who are not French and don't speak that tongue, it would have been helpful to explain where her party stands on issues other than terror and immigrants. It would also have been nice if you either dispelled or left open the allegation Putin, ("Ivan the election Manipulator") was funding some of her operations.
I'd also like to know, given her anti-Islamic rhetoric whether France's dwindling Jewish population has warmed to her or still remembers her father and stands off. Shouldn't you have also mentioned her anti-EU stances of the past (present?) and unlike Trump, her attachment to France's safety net government programs?
I'd also like to know, given her anti-Islamic rhetoric whether France's dwindling Jewish population has warmed to her or still remembers her father and stands off. Shouldn't you have also mentioned her anti-EU stances of the past (present?) and unlike Trump, her attachment to France's safety net government programs?
4
Elites should understand "people's attachment to security, identity, and sovereignty," the former Foreign Minister tells us.
No one understood that attachment better than the National Socialists in Germany.
So the elites have to embrace Nazi policies to keep the populist Nazis down? Is that it?
No one understood that attachment better than the National Socialists in Germany.
So the elites have to embrace Nazi policies to keep the populist Nazis down? Is that it?
4
While there are similarities between Trump and Le Pen, there are also significant differences:
- unlike the US and Trump, polling agencies in France have long learnt to offset the National Front in the polls: as in the US for Trump, maybe even more, voters tend to be reserved about their intentions to vote for Le Pen's party.
- 80% of registered voters usually vote in the second round of the presidential election. It may be lower this time, but would be far above what have seen in the US for this election (it is fair to say that the antiquated American voting process does not lead to high participation numbers)
It is quite certain that Marine Le Pen will be in the second round of the presidential election. But whether against Juppe or Sarkozy, she will lose by a decent margin. I do not think she will be in a position to "shatter the republican front". This may not be a landslide as in 2002 (82% for Chirac vs 18% for Le Pen father, only 21% abstention), but I do not see a second round popular vote leading to her election, even in a "lesser evil" scenario a-la Trump vs Clinton.
- unlike the US and Trump, polling agencies in France have long learnt to offset the National Front in the polls: as in the US for Trump, maybe even more, voters tend to be reserved about their intentions to vote for Le Pen's party.
- 80% of registered voters usually vote in the second round of the presidential election. It may be lower this time, but would be far above what have seen in the US for this election (it is fair to say that the antiquated American voting process does not lead to high participation numbers)
It is quite certain that Marine Le Pen will be in the second round of the presidential election. But whether against Juppe or Sarkozy, she will lose by a decent margin. I do not think she will be in a position to "shatter the republican front". This may not be a landslide as in 2002 (82% for Chirac vs 18% for Le Pen father, only 21% abstention), but I do not see a second round popular vote leading to her election, even in a "lesser evil" scenario a-la Trump vs Clinton.
1
If she doesn't win, the next nationalist will. Liberal democracy was also a unsustainable ideal, and the tides of history are beginning to rectify that mistake.
The idea that she is "far right" demonstrates how out of touch the NYT's readers are. Wanting a homogeneous country is not far right. It is normal.
France is up to 10% Muslim -- that itself should be considered high treason to the state. People who tried to normalize equality and diversity are not heroes, they are criminals. It's time for them to face social justice.
The idea that she is "far right" demonstrates how out of touch the NYT's readers are. Wanting a homogeneous country is not far right. It is normal.
France is up to 10% Muslim -- that itself should be considered high treason to the state. People who tried to normalize equality and diversity are not heroes, they are criminals. It's time for them to face social justice.
11
The left has deserted and betrayed the working class. The left used to stand for job security and for local community rights. Today's left sold its soul to the corporatist and multiculturalist globalization. Why are they surprised that the working class turned to the right? The writing has been on the wall for a very long time now.
17
No way. France doesn't like her that much, she'd have to dye her hair and change her name! She will NOT break France's glass ceiling. Not her.
Christiane Taubira would make an awsome first female president though.
As a "Garde des Sceaux" she resigned when she didn't agree with her President and biked to work!
Will she be a candidate that's another question.
Christiane Taubira would make an awsome first female president though.
As a "Garde des Sceaux" she resigned when she didn't agree with her President and biked to work!
Will she be a candidate that's another question.
2
Our resistance to a very real Islamist threat here in the US combined with a penchant for identity politics here have ignited a bonfire of the liberal vanities .
I'm a classic enlightenment progressive liberal but reject the aforementioned as mistakes of critical thinking by my fellows.
I'm a classic enlightenment progressive liberal but reject the aforementioned as mistakes of critical thinking by my fellows.
15
These globalists always want us to believe that if we don't do what they want the world will come to an end.
But the truth is that these 'virtue signaling' types - columnists, politicians, professors, and economists, all members of the 1% - are only protecting their own money and status.
But the truth is that these 'virtue signaling' types - columnists, politicians, professors, and economists, all members of the 1% - are only protecting their own money and status.
20
Yes, ladies and gentlemen, the same BIG democracy-destroying money masters are behind every one of these strong-men, hate-filled government upheavals. The goal - destroy democracy around the world for private profit.
Thanks to the global media for helping this change along. After all, their only purpose is to make money and to do that they have to keep everyone watching and reading. Chaos and fear-anger-hate-war-lies-violence make the best "news".
Now they get to cover protests and the criminal, deplorable elements that have taken over democracy in America. Hope they are happy. I'm not.
Thanks to the global media for helping this change along. After all, their only purpose is to make money and to do that they have to keep everyone watching and reading. Chaos and fear-anger-hate-war-lies-violence make the best "news".
Now they get to cover protests and the criminal, deplorable elements that have taken over democracy in America. Hope they are happy. I'm not.
6
I heard an interesting remark last Saturday, when I watched "Dateline London" on BBC. The host, Gavin Esler had four guests from Germany, the UK, Russia and the Middle East on his show. They discussed about Trump's victory. It was a heated debate, as there were two, who supported Trump. When it came to next year's elections in France and Germany, the host didn't exclude the possibility that Marine Le Pen would win. Alexander Nekrassow, a former Kremlin adviser retorted: "No, she won't."
She had received personal loans from Russia, yet the Kremlin didn't seem to support her.
She had received personal loans from Russia, yet the Kremlin didn't seem to support her.
3
Excuse me for being blunt, but this is a dumb question. Of course she "can" win--Brexit and Trump make this an even sillier question that it would normally be. The real question is whether or not she "will" win.
With this question in mind, we should acknowledge that France is different from the US in many ways. More interesting though, is the dynamic nature of the issue. Did Trump's win change the framework in France. I would say yes. Le Pen may be emboldened. Perhaps progressives will be mobilized. Figure this one out and you may have your answer (to a better question).
With this question in mind, we should acknowledge that France is different from the US in many ways. More interesting though, is the dynamic nature of the issue. Did Trump's win change the framework in France. I would say yes. Le Pen may be emboldened. Perhaps progressives will be mobilized. Figure this one out and you may have your answer (to a better question).
1
Of course... of course: respectability is a thing to be build out of the regular frustration of a "democratic man"... that is craving no virtue... but enough money in their pockets to buy things.
That sounds fair in poor countries like Mexico... but France and USA?
Go to extreme poverty in my country with no welfare and compare it to a redneck community in USA having fun with beer at monster cars being clogged in the mud.
A lot of damage is due to watching Trump firing aspiring wannabes.
That sounds fair in poor countries like Mexico... but France and USA?
Go to extreme poverty in my country with no welfare and compare it to a redneck community in USA having fun with beer at monster cars being clogged in the mud.
A lot of damage is due to watching Trump firing aspiring wannabes.
1
The Mexican government has happily and successfully outsourced their entire welfare system, 10% of their poorest, least-educated citizens, to the US for decades, so perhaps look in the mirror to see the real problem.
8
The legacy of white supremacist Christian French colonial bigotry lives in Haiti, Vietnam, Mali and Algeria.
The legacy of French Christian extremism lives in the memory of the Crusades, Charlemagne, the Inquisition, the slave trade, slavery, Robespierre, Napoleon, the Dreyfus affair, Vichy France, Henri Petain, Klaus Barbie and Charles De Gaulle.
France has more Muslims and Jews than any other European country coupled with the myth of French humanity, humility and empathetic egalitarian fraternal brotherhood. Everything has been and is historically socioeconomically politically possible in France.
The legacy of French Christian extremism lives in the memory of the Crusades, Charlemagne, the Inquisition, the slave trade, slavery, Robespierre, Napoleon, the Dreyfus affair, Vichy France, Henri Petain, Klaus Barbie and Charles De Gaulle.
France has more Muslims and Jews than any other European country coupled with the myth of French humanity, humility and empathetic egalitarian fraternal brotherhood. Everything has been and is historically socioeconomically politically possible in France.
1
Sir, you are completely ignorant of 1,400 years of Islamic conquest, occupation and enslavement that continues to this very day. Luckily, humanity, especially in the west, are waking up to the truth about Islam. We are speaking up and fighting back.
Islam has blood on its hands to the tune of 250 million dead, 25 million enslaved (by far African), two deliberate genocides, and the complete regression of the human spirit and intellect in all the lands unfortunate enough to be under its yoke.
Islam has blood on its hands to the tune of 250 million dead, 25 million enslaved (by far African), two deliberate genocides, and the complete regression of the human spirit and intellect in all the lands unfortunate enough to be under its yoke.
8
There's an important difference in the electoral systems in France and the US which make it harder (though not impossible) for a Trump/Le Pen type to win in France. In the US, we have the 18th-century electoral college, which enabled the election of Trump despite Clinton's popular vote majority. A candidate wins a state's electoral votes even with a plurality, not a majority of the state's popular vote. That happened in several states here.
In France, the popular vote is decisive in choosing a president. If no one gets a majority the first time, a runoff is held between the two top vote winners. Vive la difference!
In France, the popular vote is decisive in choosing a president. If no one gets a majority the first time, a runoff is held between the two top vote winners. Vive la difference!
1
No need to worry.
After the "Trump/Putin Military Defense Pact" is established, it will be just a matter of time before Russian troops, supported by American air power perhaps, will be rolling through Ukraine, Poland, Germany and, guess what, France settling who's really in charge once and for all.
And it'll be really great for our defense industries, a win/win for the wealthy.
Unless Mr. Putin manages to insult Mr. Trump. Then it's "bomb shelter" time, baby!
After the "Trump/Putin Military Defense Pact" is established, it will be just a matter of time before Russian troops, supported by American air power perhaps, will be rolling through Ukraine, Poland, Germany and, guess what, France settling who's really in charge once and for all.
And it'll be really great for our defense industries, a win/win for the wealthy.
Unless Mr. Putin manages to insult Mr. Trump. Then it's "bomb shelter" time, baby!
3
And let's remember that Hillary won the democratic vote. She is not president because of the anti-democratic Electoral College. So it is not just "anger and populism." It is, to paraphrase Bill Mahr, that these populists are bringing "guns of emotion and money" to what the Dems keep thinking is an "wrestling match of intellects."
3
Did you somehow miss school when the electoral system was described? It's not some new thing invented for this election. It's right there in the Constitution and serves to ensure that states with the biggest populations do not have undue influence in Presidential elections. Should an attempt at Constitutional amendment be made, it will be an incredibly tough sell and many states would have no incentive to pass it.
One other thing, if the appeal is to the intellectual, then have the intellectual honesty to admit that HRC won the popular vote when the rules of the game dictated campaign strategies that served the electoral college vote. You have no idea what the popular vote would have been had that been the only issue. For example, how many of California's 5 million registered Republicans didn't vote last Tuesday because they knew their state would go Clinton and even their Senate race featured two Democrats? That's an electoral college strategy on their part. Had the issue been straight popular vote, would they still have stayed home? Probably not.
One other thing, if the appeal is to the intellectual, then have the intellectual honesty to admit that HRC won the popular vote when the rules of the game dictated campaign strategies that served the electoral college vote. You have no idea what the popular vote would have been had that been the only issue. For example, how many of California's 5 million registered Republicans didn't vote last Tuesday because they knew their state would go Clinton and even their Senate race featured two Democrats? That's an electoral college strategy on their part. Had the issue been straight popular vote, would they still have stayed home? Probably not.
8
On your first point: you cannot use arguments that Trump would have used had he lost. The elections system in the US is what it is.
One thing that is absolutely baffling to me is the inconvenience of a Tuesday vote (a decision made when it took some voters more than a day to get to a voting booth), and the lack of civic participation leading to such a low voter turnout.
One thing that is absolutely baffling to me is the inconvenience of a Tuesday vote (a decision made when it took some voters more than a day to get to a voting booth), and the lack of civic participation leading to such a low voter turnout.
2
Not a very illuminating or well-researched article, could have been written by anyone with some access to a television set. A more interesting approach would be to examine the lengthy evolution of the Italian MSI party, led by Gianfranco Fini.
5
By asserting that Secretary Clinton "has not been particularly good at self-criticism," Pierre Rosanvallon must be living in a different world than the one I inhabit. Secretary Clinton has engaged in plenty of self-criticism (and even after years of being maliciously attacked for things she never did), from her criticism of her husband's incarceration policies, to her views on the Iraq war and her use of a private email server. Donald Trump, on the other hand, seems incapable of self-criticism; he is rather of the "never say you're sorry" camp, and introspection--even listening to the advice of others-- also seems impossible for him. Does M. Rosanvallon mean that Secretary Clinton has not adequately examined the reasons why she lost the election? She did not lose--she just didn't garner enough electoral college votes--but that is another discussion.
Mary Frosch
Mary Frosch
2
Didn't Trump's victory teach us something about how the world's population really thinks? What about Wilmers in The Netherlands? What about Merkel's fall from grace in Germany and the entire EU? It seems Brexit was not a one trick pony. There is an ideological global shift that says that the political status quo is no longer the status quo.
14
France’s electoral system is quite different compared to the USA. Participation to the Presidential elections over the last thirty years is high, around 80%. Voter registration and the voting process are well run and trusted (no long lines, no “rigging”) and are held on a Sunday. The French have no issues with identity papers, which are mandatory. France has a two round system which allows for a (sometimes dangerous) protest or emotional vote in round one and then a more rational vote in round two. It is a direct vote (universal suffrage) and we only vote for the office of President - legislative and local elections are held separately at a different date.
So although we have many very disgruntled citizens and many problems to solve at least the electoral system is not an impediment and has thus far prevented extreme right or left wing candidates from gaining power. May that continue! Vive la France.
So although we have many very disgruntled citizens and many problems to solve at least the electoral system is not an impediment and has thus far prevented extreme right or left wing candidates from gaining power. May that continue! Vive la France.
5
"....you also need self-criticism. And Mrs. Clinton, he noted, has not been particularly good at self-criticism."
You mean the woman who blames the FBI for her loss? So the woman who caused ALL of her own problems (please, show me where in the State Dept rules does it clearly state one is allowed to maintain a private email server in your own home? If she were so technologically challenged as she claims, why didn't she just use yahoo or gmail, like anyone else who wants to use a different email system?
No, she alone is to blame, for her complete un-trustworthiness, perpetuated by none other than her. paid speeches to wall street? "No need to know what I said behind closed doors for $600k Main St America, I feel your pain!"
Millions donated to the Clinton Foundation by questionable sources from all over the world? "Nothing to see here, as we've rebuilt Haiti...we are just doing good work"
Add to that the overwhelming sense that she had that it was "her turn"...and self-criticism is the last thing you'll get from this woman.
You mean the woman who blames the FBI for her loss? So the woman who caused ALL of her own problems (please, show me where in the State Dept rules does it clearly state one is allowed to maintain a private email server in your own home? If she were so technologically challenged as she claims, why didn't she just use yahoo or gmail, like anyone else who wants to use a different email system?
No, she alone is to blame, for her complete un-trustworthiness, perpetuated by none other than her. paid speeches to wall street? "No need to know what I said behind closed doors for $600k Main St America, I feel your pain!"
Millions donated to the Clinton Foundation by questionable sources from all over the world? "Nothing to see here, as we've rebuilt Haiti...we are just doing good work"
Add to that the overwhelming sense that she had that it was "her turn"...and self-criticism is the last thing you'll get from this woman.
8
It's easy to see why you rose to the top of the journalistic profession in France, Sylvie Kauffmann. If we had people like yourself helping to explain the dynamics of the populist surge in the western democracies, maybe a level of understanding could be reached here in the USA.
Trump is no Willie Stark of Robert Penn Warren's great novel. How could people here fall for a plutocrat calling for equity? Because he can't be bought? He & his cohorts will be supplying the lobbyists beholden to global corporate interests. Only the white collar administrative contingent will proper in this scheme.
As for Marine Le Pen, the nuance accompanying her is too great for our citizenry to comprehend. She has banished her father, the anti-Semite & fool. France will sort this out.
Trump is no Willie Stark of Robert Penn Warren's great novel. How could people here fall for a plutocrat calling for equity? Because he can't be bought? He & his cohorts will be supplying the lobbyists beholden to global corporate interests. Only the white collar administrative contingent will proper in this scheme.
As for Marine Le Pen, the nuance accompanying her is too great for our citizenry to comprehend. She has banished her father, the anti-Semite & fool. France will sort this out.
2
More power to Le pen. Somebody needs to counter the politically correct leftists who have turned France in a welfare state and a breeding ground for Islamic terrorism.
12
Monsieur Paul de White Plains. The French motto is Liberté, Egalité, Fraternité. The fraternity part is important. "Welfare State" is something Americans like to debate. France has a world class health care system, unemployment benefits, worker benefits. If you tried to take them away you would have a second French revolution. Leftists are not the issue. As to politically correct, we have laws against hate speech and we enforce them. We will have a political debate based on substance rather than an exchange of insults and racially charged rhetoric.
15
If Marine Le Pen becomes President of France, this, paired with "Brexit", will represent an "existential" threat to the EU.
Am I exaggerating this?
Am I exaggerating this?
1
The greatest threat to EU is EU itself!
6
I can understand the Brexit and USA election results because we have a saying in Turkey like "if it is needed at home, then it is illicit for mosque" which is truly a reflection of most healthy human nature. I also accept he same results in France, too. The thing that I have difficulty to understand is the disrespectful protests against the democratic results... A comment from a professional socialogist may help a lot.
2
The protesters are simply exercising their 1st amendment right to throw a tantrum because the election didn't go the way they were promised. For many, this was the first time a presidential election didn't go their way. They will eventually run out of food and money and will need to return to their parents' homes.
4
I'm rooting for Ms Le Pen as well. She will restore law and order to France. The time for her could never be better. Work hard on winning, Ms Le Pen and best wishes!!
9
Of course Marie LePen could win. If Trump can win here, she can win in France. It is another step towards global fascism.
1
When people were hoping for a woman to shatter the glass ceiling - this is NOT what they meant.
3
For madame Kauffmann it seems like not even the possible is possible!
4
But before the French presidential election is the Austrian presidential election.
The two remaining candidates are from the FPÖ, a party very mich like Le Pen's party and the other, van der Bellen, is some sort of "liberal".
Van der Bellen is a demonstration of the fact that many of those who are thought of as "liberal" can be extremists who are worse than most on the left or right.
He is reported as stating thst he would not swear in an FPÖ Prime Minster or accept an FPÖ goverment.
So if the FPÖ got 90" of tzhe vote, he would try to ignore them.
That could lead to a civil war.
Van der Bellen is a dangerous extremist as are many who support the "EU".
The two remaining candidates are from the FPÖ, a party very mich like Le Pen's party and the other, van der Bellen, is some sort of "liberal".
Van der Bellen is a demonstration of the fact that many of those who are thought of as "liberal" can be extremists who are worse than most on the left or right.
He is reported as stating thst he would not swear in an FPÖ Prime Minster or accept an FPÖ goverment.
So if the FPÖ got 90" of tzhe vote, he would try to ignore them.
That could lead to a civil war.
Van der Bellen is a dangerous extremist as are many who support the "EU".
5
My bet? It's a trifecta. Marine Le Pen will be the "Belmont" winner .... if only this was just a horse race.
1
If Le Pen wins, that would be awesome.
Enough limp-wristed leftist political correctness.
Enough limp-wristed leftist political correctness.
10
France needs to leave the Eurozone and probably the "EU".
There is no evidence that the socialists or the conservatives have what it takes to do that.
So there is really no choice, but to vote for Le Pen.
I find reports that mayors belonging to Le Pen's party have banned pork-free alternative meals in schools extremely worrying and offensive.
I am not Muslim or Jewish but I still find it extremely offensive and worrying.
But Sarkozy and Hollande are still more dangeerous than Le Pen.
There is no evidence that the socialists or the conservatives have what it takes to do that.
So there is really no choice, but to vote for Le Pen.
I find reports that mayors belonging to Le Pen's party have banned pork-free alternative meals in schools extremely worrying and offensive.
I am not Muslim or Jewish but I still find it extremely offensive and worrying.
But Sarkozy and Hollande are still more dangeerous than Le Pen.
2
Break up the Jungle and scatter the remnants from Calais throughout the electorate. What could possibly go wrong?
4
Yes, of course she can win. And, Angela Merkle is at risk. This is the paranoia, fear, and hatred that has gripped the world. Exactly what Muslim jihadists were aiming for.
6
Of course, she can win.
And will.
French people have put up with so much PC nonsense and corruption.
It will be nice to finally have someone who truly represents the best of France in power.
Same for Geert Wilder in the Netherlands whose party will soon be the number one in their parliament.
And will.
French people have put up with so much PC nonsense and corruption.
It will be nice to finally have someone who truly represents the best of France in power.
Same for Geert Wilder in the Netherlands whose party will soon be the number one in their parliament.
11
Let's not forget that as evidenced by the popular vote, most Americans voted for Hillary Clinton who came first by a substantial margin. So we know that most Americans believe that climate change is real and that education is important. Most of us also want universal health care, equal rights, social justice, and a higher minimum wage. We are just stuck with the Electoral College system and with a candidate who did not come first in the popular vote. And in this case the person that most of us didn't vote for wants to play ' loser of the popular vote takes all', regardless of what most Americans want.
14
I wonder at the American people who stand against the Electoral College. Today, that mechanism ensures that the square states in the middle of the country have a voice in selecting the president. Absent the College, candidates would campaign only where the population is--in the urban centers of country along the coasts, including the Great Lakes coasts.
5
The campaigns were not run based on a popular vote election. Think of all the Republicans in California, Illinois, New York etc. who simply did not vote because they knew their state was already lost to the Democrats. Trump would have been campaigning all over these states and no doubt would have picked up hundreds of thousands of votes. This is why Republicans for many years have themselves wanted to do away with the electoral college. That was wrong. But it is also wrong to suggest that most of us wanted Hillary when the campaign was not run based on a purely democratic vote.
6
If you have been around awhile, and have some insight into our French friends, one shouldn't forget they cherish their considerable vacation time, they cherish their shorter work week, they push for a 30 hour work week etc etc. Nothing wrong with any of this . With that said, what would someone from the so called right have to offer, other than shutting down more Muslim immigration. Their large Muslim population is stuffed in ghettos and the young have no employment possibilities.
1
It's entirely possible what you say. And Paris is like New York and Los Angeles, liberal islands in a growing sea of populist conservativism. After the attacks of last November and July she certainly has the strongest conduit to the Élysee.
And yet . . . she also has a foppish side, not terribly articulate like Macron, which brings up her Hillary factor—just can't seem to put together a winning self-image, rather dour, like those old brocanteuses on St. Paul—no charme or élan, just rage in her dark voice and those awful Third-Reichian air-cutting gestures.
And yet . . . she also has a foppish side, not terribly articulate like Macron, which brings up her Hillary factor—just can't seem to put together a winning self-image, rather dour, like those old brocanteuses on St. Paul—no charme or élan, just rage in her dark voice and those awful Third-Reichian air-cutting gestures.
1
It's possible that retreats into hyper nationalism and withdrawal from global evolution may not work in the long run. We've already seen how technology and the constant search for larger markets and lower production costs are propelling us into a more global future. These are not going away, however some may wish it.
Ultimately, the reality may likely be to figure out how to live with that rather than run from it. One thing is sure: producing a greater amount of goods and services as efficiently as possible and trading them effectively creates wealth. Circling your wagons doesn't.
Ultimately, the reality may likely be to figure out how to live with that rather than run from it. One thing is sure: producing a greater amount of goods and services as efficiently as possible and trading them effectively creates wealth. Circling your wagons doesn't.
Much of citizens' frustration and anger in the U.S., Britain, France, and elsewhere is because voters seem to hold the naive idea that they live in a democracy where their elected officials and representatives look out for their constituents and advocate for their needs.
But the political class has other fish to fry--such as pleasing the power elite who profit handsomely from globalization, push their politicians to move to globalization, and no longer identify or feel any responsibility for what happens to the workers of any one nation--or the condition of the planet if protecting the planet cuts into profits. Political parties, in varying degrees, are largely oriented to serving the power elite and only need the people at election time.
So, IF the political class really does not want right-wing populist demagogues like Donald Trump winning elections by manipulating prejudices and hate, then it would be wise for them to turn their attention to working for the best interests of middle class and working people.
And don't judge the political class by what they say, judge them by their actions. For example, maybe the political class might want to read over the TPP once again, where everything advances the economic and power interests of big multinational corporations, and there is nothing in that "agreement" to help workers or democratic governments.
But who cares? Not the political class, and that is the core problem!
But the political class has other fish to fry--such as pleasing the power elite who profit handsomely from globalization, push their politicians to move to globalization, and no longer identify or feel any responsibility for what happens to the workers of any one nation--or the condition of the planet if protecting the planet cuts into profits. Political parties, in varying degrees, are largely oriented to serving the power elite and only need the people at election time.
So, IF the political class really does not want right-wing populist demagogues like Donald Trump winning elections by manipulating prejudices and hate, then it would be wise for them to turn their attention to working for the best interests of middle class and working people.
And don't judge the political class by what they say, judge them by their actions. For example, maybe the political class might want to read over the TPP once again, where everything advances the economic and power interests of big multinational corporations, and there is nothing in that "agreement" to help workers or democratic governments.
But who cares? Not the political class, and that is the core problem!
9
Well of course Le Pen can get elected. Hitler got elected, so did Mussolini, Mugabe, and all sorts of lesser racist fascists. Le Pen is a racist fascist, and that appeals to about half of everyone, looks like. Thanks to the Trump victory, I'm pretty sure that roughly half of humanity are highly racist and want a fascist overlord.
So sure, Le Pen can win and France can expel Muslims and Jews, or maybe round them up into internment camps. Wouldn't surprise me in the least. But maybe fate will smile on France and Le Pen will be struck by lightning instead.
So sure, Le Pen can win and France can expel Muslims and Jews, or maybe round them up into internment camps. Wouldn't surprise me in the least. But maybe fate will smile on France and Le Pen will be struck by lightning instead.
3
I would ask any columnist lazily recurring to the term "far right" to distinguish far right ideas from conservative ones. That way I can know if she considers an idea or policy that I consider merely conservative to be far right. Call me conservative all day, but don't call me far right. I will try to do the same for the terms liberal and far left.
5
The "elites" are the ones driving the animosity and division. "Divide and conquer" is a winning strategy because the warring factions who turn against each other do all the fighting for you. They stir the pot and sit back and watch us implode. We are not "rising up against the elites." We are playing right into their hands.
Read Democracy the God That Failed (or anything from the intelligentsia that fuels von Mises, anarcho-capitalism, agorism, lucrative libertarianism, etc). They say the goal is to incite a series of secessions that will break the US and European countries into smaller fiefdoms (with less resources and diffused power). There is strength in numbers. The only thing stopping the truly corrupt and greedy from multinational crime and unchecked power has been the resolve of United States.
Now look at us.
America will be great again when we remember that we "crown our good with brotherhood from sea to shining sea." When we forgot that, the elites win. It is how they are winning now.
Read Democracy the God That Failed (or anything from the intelligentsia that fuels von Mises, anarcho-capitalism, agorism, lucrative libertarianism, etc). They say the goal is to incite a series of secessions that will break the US and European countries into smaller fiefdoms (with less resources and diffused power). There is strength in numbers. The only thing stopping the truly corrupt and greedy from multinational crime and unchecked power has been the resolve of United States.
Now look at us.
America will be great again when we remember that we "crown our good with brotherhood from sea to shining sea." When we forgot that, the elites win. It is how they are winning now.
3
In France the far right has a quite a long history that dates back to the Dreyfus affair. Antisemitism was deeply rooted all the way from the dark times of the Vichy government to the Front National political party founded in the 1970s by Marine Le Pen's father himself. Then throughout the 1980s and until nowadays they have morphed, so to speak, into an anti-European Union, anti-immigrants and Islamophobic political machine. Make no mistake, with all her polished ways, Marine Le Pen stands for the same racist, extremist doctrine as her father's.
it is true that she has managed to siphon votes out of the traditionally left-leaning constituencies, but she has also always failed to get elected, either as a National Assembly member or as the head of the North region of France. Her only electoral victory is -very ironically- as a member if the European Parliament...a seat left by her father.
Yes, today's France is very much hurting with too mnay social ills. And traditional (républicains) political parties have lost much of their credibility.
Marine Le Pen is a strong contender, yet there are still a large portion of French voters who cannot stomach the idea of letting a neo-Facist candidate become their next president. People can be disillusioned, but they are not fooled. Not only is Le Pen a racist in sheep clothes, but her economic platform is simply too dumb to be implemented.
it is true that she has managed to siphon votes out of the traditionally left-leaning constituencies, but she has also always failed to get elected, either as a National Assembly member or as the head of the North region of France. Her only electoral victory is -very ironically- as a member if the European Parliament...a seat left by her father.
Yes, today's France is very much hurting with too mnay social ills. And traditional (républicains) political parties have lost much of their credibility.
Marine Le Pen is a strong contender, yet there are still a large portion of French voters who cannot stomach the idea of letting a neo-Facist candidate become their next president. People can be disillusioned, but they are not fooled. Not only is Le Pen a racist in sheep clothes, but her economic platform is simply too dumb to be implemented.
4
Nicely put and so very true. I live in the FN's heartland, on the conservative and pensioner-packed southern coast, but even here, the FN struggles to get above 20% of the vote for exactly the reasons you outlined. She's adept at packaging and clearly power-hungry, but her real views, inherited from her Fascist father are utterly despicable.As is the fact that she, like UKIP, decries the EU but takes its money as an MEP without showing the slightest hint of distaste for where it has come from...deeply hypocritical? I think so...indicative of a fundamentally cavalier, opportunist turn of mind...oh yes!
From my point of view, it was the right decision for the US to vote Trump. I hope that it is a opening for other realistic politicians to oppose against left wing demagoges, who see salvation in mass migration to western countries.
All the other points, which likely influenced the decision of the Brexiteers or the Trump voters are not much more then a garnish.
The main task for the next decades will be to secure the borders. And I don't feel like Merkel or Hollande or Clinton are bringing the required capabilities.
We definately need the dawn of a new world. Le Pen is right ;)
All the other points, which likely influenced the decision of the Brexiteers or the Trump voters are not much more then a garnish.
The main task for the next decades will be to secure the borders. And I don't feel like Merkel or Hollande or Clinton are bringing the required capabilities.
We definately need the dawn of a new world. Le Pen is right ;)
15
The difference in the United States is that the election of Trump was NOT about immigration. He might garnered a more effective opposition from minorities if it was - the fact is that Hispanics and Blacks and even women did not flock to Clinton's side. Trump was positioned against a particularly weak candidate, that no one ever liked.
This article would not have been written if the DNC had accepted Biden, a former Senator, two time VP, former candidate for Democratic Presidential nomination and definitely a member of the Democratic establishment, or Sanders, who is a Senator and therefore "sort of" in the establishment.
Americans did not vote because they are anti-immigrant or misogynists or anti-handicapped. They voted for Trump, or rather abstained from voting Hillary, because they are anti-Hillary.
This article would not have been written if the DNC had accepted Biden, a former Senator, two time VP, former candidate for Democratic Presidential nomination and definitely a member of the Democratic establishment, or Sanders, who is a Senator and therefore "sort of" in the establishment.
Americans did not vote because they are anti-immigrant or misogynists or anti-handicapped. They voted for Trump, or rather abstained from voting Hillary, because they are anti-Hillary.
18
You are deceiving yourself. The alt right was a large part of this election.
@Emily:HRC lost because she was badly advised by group of people who were convinced they were too smart by half. Highly educated, but just goes to show that if you don't have the "bon sens du cheval,"your advice is not only counterintutitive, but can lead to the candidate's losing the election. If I had been advising HRC I would have suggested several things. First, that she dress down, buy her clothes at Robert Hall rather than from Vera Wang. Second, that she rent a room in the Hood,challenge Trump to do the same thing, teach a course in diction in the local h.s.,help out at a soup kitchen, and if you see someone on the street down and out, give him or her a few dollars.Second, hit Trump where it hurts:his children.Mention sons' canned hunting expeditions, and then hold up for the cameras pictures of slaughtered animals,and say:"Is this what u call bringing up children with the right values:cruelty to animals?"Then read for the cameras excerpts from E.H's short story, "Short Happy life of Francis McComber" to drive home your point!Finally, help out at a local animal shelter, adopt an abandoned mutt, and take him with her on the campaign trail,and let the mutt become her mascot.All of the above in the name of empathy, altrusim,HRC is only 69 and four years hence she will still be in shape for the Presidency. "Il ne faut jamais se degonfler!"Campaign to take back the WH for Mrs. Clinton began yesterday.Time to mobilize herself and her supporters.
t
t
You couldn't be more wrong. Hillary won the popular vote:
Donald Trump 60,350,241 (47.3%)
Hillary Clinton 60,981,118 (47.79%)
That’s a difference of 630,877 votes
That is not including 7-million votes that still uncounted. Trump won the Electoral College Votes. The same way that Bush won over Gore.
This is why the vast majority of voters don't bother voting at all. It doesn't matter what the popular vote is when it comes to electing president. What matters is who the Electoral College votes for and that means who wins the swing states.
The popular vote for the President is nothing more than a carnival shell game for the citizen because the only votes that count are those of the Electoral College.
Donald Trump 60,350,241 (47.3%)
Hillary Clinton 60,981,118 (47.79%)
That’s a difference of 630,877 votes
That is not including 7-million votes that still uncounted. Trump won the Electoral College Votes. The same way that Bush won over Gore.
This is why the vast majority of voters don't bother voting at all. It doesn't matter what the popular vote is when it comes to electing president. What matters is who the Electoral College votes for and that means who wins the swing states.
The popular vote for the President is nothing more than a carnival shell game for the citizen because the only votes that count are those of the Electoral College.
1
And all that some will do is scream "racist" instead of considering why she has such support. It's time to stop labeling and start thinking.
56
You still can understand France's social and economic problems, while you figure out that Marine Le Pen is indeed a racist politician. Or a cunning one rather, who has managed to substitute her father's antisemitism for her own Islamophobia. At the end of the day this is same dirty xeonophobic, nationalistic business.
One huge (or yuugge?) difference with populism in other countries is that France has still to come to terms with its colonial past. For example, policies applied in French city suburbs today look very much like what was done in colonial times throughout North Africa. Everyone knows this and still prefers to keep their heads in the sand, or talk about how the global economic market is evil...
One huge (or yuugge?) difference with populism in other countries is that France has still to come to terms with its colonial past. For example, policies applied in French city suburbs today look very much like what was done in colonial times throughout North Africa. Everyone knows this and still prefers to keep their heads in the sand, or talk about how the global economic market is evil...
6
Trump victory as well as Brexit boil down to the surveys by French social geographer Christophe Guilluy on the effects of 40 years of globalization.
He finds that jobs, culture,politicians, the media are ever more concentrated in the big city areas leaving out the miseries of the huge jobless areas elsewhere where desperation and anger are all that grows.
He finds that jobs, culture,politicians, the media are ever more concentrated in the big city areas leaving out the miseries of the huge jobless areas elsewhere where desperation and anger are all that grows.
30
According to Upshot, she has less than 2% chance of winning. Scary.
9
The Times told us all summer that Hillary had a 94% chance of winning and the day before the election the number was 86. I love the Times, but "chance of winning" posts are not news, they are dangerous and faulty guesses.
7
What people should not forget is:
1) Le Front National won the French seat in the most recent European elections.
2) François Hollande only narrowly won the last election, and instantly became the least popular French president ever, before he even did anything (but then that is based on surveys - and I guess Americans know all too well that surveys don't necessarily give you the pulse of a nation).
So, in conclusion, a lot of French people are angry, and a lot of them are not thinking straight when they vote. I truly hope that common sense will prevail next year, but even if it does, how long can we hold off this wave of madness and isolationism that is spreading across the globe like an infectious disease?
If Le Pen does win, I would have liked to have had the possibility to move to another western country, one that is stable and is not already run by bigots or nationalists, or is not in present danger of being so. I can't think of one.
1) Le Front National won the French seat in the most recent European elections.
2) François Hollande only narrowly won the last election, and instantly became the least popular French president ever, before he even did anything (but then that is based on surveys - and I guess Americans know all too well that surveys don't necessarily give you the pulse of a nation).
So, in conclusion, a lot of French people are angry, and a lot of them are not thinking straight when they vote. I truly hope that common sense will prevail next year, but even if it does, how long can we hold off this wave of madness and isolationism that is spreading across the globe like an infectious disease?
If Le Pen does win, I would have liked to have had the possibility to move to another western country, one that is stable and is not already run by bigots or nationalists, or is not in present danger of being so. I can't think of one.
23
Paul,
why not try Saidi-Arabia--they need supporters like you--mind your head,
the authorities have a habit chopping them off without any reason!
why not try Saidi-Arabia--they need supporters like you--mind your head,
the authorities have a habit chopping them off without any reason!
7
Try Canada
@Paul: There is always the other side of the Rhine.
The leaders of the West have a choice- do they represent the interests of their citizens or those of illegal immigrants? Do they have a responsibility to protect working class citizens or poor foreigners?
When they make the wrong choices people like Trump get elected.
Leaders of the West- stop. Just stop. You have an obligation to your citizens- if you fail to perform those obligations you will be replaced. Stop destroying your own societies for your own benefit.
When they make the wrong choices people like Trump get elected.
Leaders of the West- stop. Just stop. You have an obligation to your citizens- if you fail to perform those obligations you will be replaced. Stop destroying your own societies for your own benefit.
26
France aided us when we sought independence in the 1770s. It is only fitting that as they reclaim their national identity, we give them all the help we can.
13
If the issue is "national identity", then the last thing they need is for a foreign power to define it for them.
1
Ms. Le Pen is missing something crucial here. Donald won because he is male, not because he is conservative.
5
Of course - that must be why Angela Merkel runs Germany and Theresa May runs Great Britain - because women are systematically excluded from power!
3
not agree, Donald won because Hilary and the democrat's war machine lost. If the democrat party staid a democrat party, Hilary would win. You could send time and energy to fight for the transgender students could choose their bathroom, why not, more liberty, more respect of people, but you cannot win when you waste time and energy in this. The noblest choice is not often the choice of victory. When you forget to visit your kingdom, Wisconsin for example, you lost. When you forget than the part of population which the highest rate of suicide is the white male, you lost.
5
Keep dreaming. Democrats will keep losing if all you've got is identity politics to offer.
4
I don't think the French are as stupid as us Americans. They see beyond the superficiality of Le Pen's hateful vitriol. It was this same kind of vitriol that started the two World Wars in Europe, nobody wants it turned inward. We are in for 4 years at least of who knows what, lead by a man who nobody understands, maybe not even himself. I have faith in American democracy and the people, the young in this country will accomplish what we old idiots couldn't.
6
Four years? The damage he will inflict by the actions of his appointed right wing crazies will endure for a few generations. He owns every American.
Can Marine Le Pen win?
All she needs is a slew of polls saying that she cannot.
All she needs is a slew of polls saying that she cannot.
38
When you say that “Most experts had dismissed the idea that the far-right leader could be president of France. Brexit and Trump have changed that,” do you mean they have as many idiots and hillbillies as we do?
mmmm....that means we are back to the 1930s. GOD save us all!
mmmm....that means we are back to the 1930s. GOD save us all!
4
Yes, very shrew electoral strategy ... denigrate those who disagree with you as " deplorables ".
7
What are the consequences of Trump on French policy? Marine Le Pen will not necessarily be the winner neither Psycho Sarko nor Ankylosis Juppé. Since its election Hollande fights against the residues that his predecessor has left in the high spheres of the administration as in the intelligence services. Hollande wanted a normal presidency but he'd got bogged down in a moving sand that secret offices and black cabinets sowed on his way. If Hollande decides to re-run ,he will be re-elected, French always end up returning to reason. Hollande will benefit from his good reputation . His integrity is unanimously recognized . He has never been quoted in a corrupt case. Hollande will be a reliable partner for America.
2
It's hard to believe that the dominoes are not falling: first Brexit, then Trump, now possibly France. Will Germany be able to hold the line? And given its culpability in the near destruction of Greece, who will gladly support it?
6
Will Germany be able to hold the line? What line is there to hold? Given the stupidity of allowing 800000 illegal migrants walk into the country without any ID check, without any REAL plans for taking care of them, and without asking the German people if they approved of taking in this many muslims, without asking police and train personnel if they had the resources to deal with it, and without consulting supposed EU allies...what "line" is there to hold? People in Germany and Europe are sick of feckless, clueless, unelected EU bureaucrats and permanent politicians who spend their time earning salaries and pensions that are tax-free and are so arrogant that they assume that all of the great unwashed out here will only have to live with the consequences of the stupid decisions they make. Now they have seen that, yes, change IS possible, I hope they take the same actions here.
6
Before the US elections, many, me included, thought that the future French president will be known at the end of November when the Republicans choose their candidate for the general election to come. We thought that since the general election in April will basically be a confrontation between Le Pen and the Republican candidate (the Socialists are dead in the water), people will vote en masse against her, as usual.
But the election of Trump has shown that things have changed. The future is now uncertain and no outcome can be excluded.
There is a timid resurgence of new citizen-led political parties such “Nous Citoyens” (Us, Citizens) which is a sort of French version of the Spanish “Ciudadanos.” Those citizen driven initiatives struggle to gain in popularity and press coverage, but the demand is strong. People are tired of professional politicians, they want to retake control. If the mainstream media could turn their cameras and microphones to those initiatives, people would see that a viable alternative exists. And this is definitely not Madame Le Pen.
But the election of Trump has shown that things have changed. The future is now uncertain and no outcome can be excluded.
There is a timid resurgence of new citizen-led political parties such “Nous Citoyens” (Us, Citizens) which is a sort of French version of the Spanish “Ciudadanos.” Those citizen driven initiatives struggle to gain in popularity and press coverage, but the demand is strong. People are tired of professional politicians, they want to retake control. If the mainstream media could turn their cameras and microphones to those initiatives, people would see that a viable alternative exists. And this is definitely not Madame Le Pen.
4
Wrong Bob, it is Madame le Pen all the way-- thanks to the French people!
5
Bartbreit News puts out half truths, anecdotes, and half true Think Tank memes and reports to support their side of things. Breitbart News is moving to Paris.
I took one article on Global Warming and coal emissions, tracked it down to its source, and discovered they were publishing on very shaky science whose statistics generally change and are revised a great deal after the first year of publication. Yet they were published, they had a pedigree, and the first 20 articles on a Google search made it look like it was peer reviewed irrefutable good news on global warming.
To get the alt France in power, this kind of internet lobbying will be used. A model we are exporting as you read this.
I took one article on Global Warming and coal emissions, tracked it down to its source, and discovered they were publishing on very shaky science whose statistics generally change and are revised a great deal after the first year of publication. Yet they were published, they had a pedigree, and the first 20 articles on a Google search made it look like it was peer reviewed irrefutable good news on global warming.
To get the alt France in power, this kind of internet lobbying will be used. A model we are exporting as you read this.
5
The obvious problem with so many national leaders today is that they forget that they are presidents and prime ministers and representatives of their respective NATIONS, not rulers of the world. They forget stop putting the interests of their respective countries first, and - in a obscene quest for power - start creating global webs that ensnare and paralyze the very citizens that gave them the power to begin with. These representatives are often egotistical fools, and Le Pen speaks - as did Trump - to the huge swath of citizens that are not being remotely acknowledged. Nationalism is neither passé nor irrelevant in today's world, despite what the elitists think. The Brexit vote demonstrated that simple fact; Putin realizes it, hence his immense popularity, and Trump tapped into it. Le Pen is a serious contender, and will probably be France's new leader.
21
Le Pen's victory would not be just the third one. We've already got Putin, Sisi, Erdogan, Orban in Hungary and Kaczński in Poland and I have probably overlooked another one or two. Austria was close, Denmark is dubious. WWIII is inevitable by 2025, probable by 2020.
1
"WWIII is inevitable by 2025, probable by 2020"
There is a good chance that WW III will be fought between an Islamic Caliphate and the West. Should that be the case, the sooner the better while the West still has nuclear supremacy and the ability to wipe Islam off the face of the earth forever. Imagine that the situation were reversed and that an Islamic Caliphate had nuclear supremacy. Do you think that they would not demand that all "infidels" convert to Islam or be destroyed?
There is a good chance that WW III will be fought between an Islamic Caliphate and the West. Should that be the case, the sooner the better while the West still has nuclear supremacy and the ability to wipe Islam off the face of the earth forever. Imagine that the situation were reversed and that an Islamic Caliphate had nuclear supremacy. Do you think that they would not demand that all "infidels" convert to Islam or be destroyed?
7
What are the consequences of Trump President on French policy? Marine Le Pen will not necessarily be the winner neither Psycho Sarko nor Ankylosis Juppé. Hollande fights against huge debt left by his predecessor, high unemployment rate, many terrorists attacks , threat of Islamists inside and outside etc... Hollande wanted a "normal presidency " but he was got bogged down in a moving sand by some of his own advisers and hidden influences from right and left.
If Hollande decides to re-run he will be re-elected, French always end up returning to reason. Reforms he had initiated are beginning to bear fruits .Hollande will benefit from his integrity never been quoted in a corrupt case. He will be a reliable partner for America.
If Hollande decides to re-run he will be re-elected, French always end up returning to reason. Reforms he had initiated are beginning to bear fruits .Hollande will benefit from his integrity never been quoted in a corrupt case. He will be a reliable partner for America.
This is a sad time. We could have upset the establishment from the left. If Sanders didn't have the entire media and Democratic elite against him, he would be President and the world would be on a different course.
Now it is the far right that is disrupting the establishment in their own way, and emboldened. I hope the liberal elite including the NY Times, who chose to side with Clinton against the tide of populism, is happy with itself for contributing to this.
Now it is the far right that is disrupting the establishment in their own way, and emboldened. I hope the liberal elite including the NY Times, who chose to side with Clinton against the tide of populism, is happy with itself for contributing to this.
14
As a Franco-American, with one foot in each country, here's my take: the Social Elevator which allowed poor but hard working youth a chance to make it in France, is mostly broken. The Government whether right or left,at all higher levels is ruled by ex-students of ENA, the university of the 'elite', both from right and left. These people are disconnected from the real world,one when asked the price of a popular snack, had not a clue on the cost. All we need is Sarkozy as the conservative candidate and Holland as the socialist candidate and Marine LePen has a good chance to win.
I sat in the USA watching Trump win with the same stupor and disbelief as many. It can happen in France. So, get out there and VOTE.
I sat in the USA watching Trump win with the same stupor and disbelief as many. It can happen in France. So, get out there and VOTE.
33
We warned you with the Tea Party and all you could talk about was gay marriage.
We warned you with Brexit and all you could talk about was Black Lives Matter.
Now we all have to live with Trump, and all you can do is double down on the same boutique rhetoric that doesn't speak to the REAL suffering in the country.
Wake up, Left!
We warned you with Brexit and all you could talk about was Black Lives Matter.
Now we all have to live with Trump, and all you can do is double down on the same boutique rhetoric that doesn't speak to the REAL suffering in the country.
Wake up, Left!
59
I'm American and the problem is unbridled capitalism. If you believe it is anything else then I can only assume you have given the demands of capitalism much thought. In a nutshell:
Capitalism only works by finding the cheapest labor market. Hence Globalization. In order for it to work properly the workers must be deprived of rights and the investors are take-all profiteers. Without workers' unions there is no representation for the feudal slaves. Politicians are not going to represent the workers. They are too busy gaming the system.
Spend your time reading Ayn Rand. Is she a visionary or is she very good at teaching politicians, wall street, and bankers how to game the system?
Capitalism only works by finding the cheapest labor market. Hence Globalization. In order for it to work properly the workers must be deprived of rights and the investors are take-all profiteers. Without workers' unions there is no representation for the feudal slaves. Politicians are not going to represent the workers. They are too busy gaming the system.
Spend your time reading Ayn Rand. Is she a visionary or is she very good at teaching politicians, wall street, and bankers how to game the system?
1
"Most experts had dismissed the idea that the far-right leader could be president of France"
Ms. Kauffmann makes the same mistake as the US press, still thinking in categories left and right.
The FN does best in regions of France that formerly voted communist. Mr. Sanders, a Socialist, won every staunchly Republican county in NYS.
How does this fit in the "right" vs "left" box ? It doesn't
Mr. Sanders, Mr Trump, Mr. Johnson, and yes Ms Le Pen are the leaders of the emerging anti globalization parties, whatever label the press likes to stick to them
Globalization has been great for the elites but has depressed the wage of those in advanced countries whose work can be done cheaper in 3rd world countries.
Now sans dents (deplorables) revolt. Bien sûr
Ms. Kauffmann makes the same mistake as the US press, still thinking in categories left and right.
The FN does best in regions of France that formerly voted communist. Mr. Sanders, a Socialist, won every staunchly Republican county in NYS.
How does this fit in the "right" vs "left" box ? It doesn't
Mr. Sanders, Mr Trump, Mr. Johnson, and yes Ms Le Pen are the leaders of the emerging anti globalization parties, whatever label the press likes to stick to them
Globalization has been great for the elites but has depressed the wage of those in advanced countries whose work can be done cheaper in 3rd world countries.
Now sans dents (deplorables) revolt. Bien sûr
42
How do you stop globalization?
France could do a lot worse. I'm rooting for Ms Le Pen to continue the worldwide repudiation of elitist Liberal policies.
28
Not to mention Le Pen stands for racism and fascism. Did you approve of Hitler's repudiation of elitist liberal policies too?
1
I have traveled to France numerous times and have seen firsthand many things. France has a large unemployment rate, many immigrants (both legal and illegal) people who do not wish to assimilate, excessive taxation, expense, and other problems. France is a small country and certainly not admirable.. Another prime example of the failure of socialism.
19
The failure is that socialist policies provide the same generous benefits to immigrants as they do to those born in France. Overextended and underemployed, France has had to reckon with exorbitant economic and social costs, that include cultural hostility to the point of active on-ground support for lethal terrorist acts. Another problem in France is that a small religious minority now feels isolated and unsafe living there after having survived a systematic attack on it 75 years ago, and is opting to emigrate in ever-larger numbers...
6
Why should immigrants have to assimilate?
The lesson from America is that the elites must show respect to the common man and not presume or assume any deference for learning and experience.
18
The lesson from America is that lots of people will believe lies (see, e.g. Breitbart) and can thus be manipulated by demagogues.
1
I fail to see how Donald Trump has shown "respect for the common man" - or anyone else, for that matter.
1
The common man and woman has plenty of learning and experience. Often, the learning and experiences of so-called common people are more valuable and useful than that of ivory tower elites. Don't mistake a lack of degree for stupidity. Too many NYT readers think exactly that way and that's why they didn't see the very obvious likelihood of a Trump win.
2
Marine Le Pen is not Trump Francaise.
If you look at her bio, you'll find that she is a graduate of France's top law school (the same one Hollande attended), and holds a range of governmental offices one of which is as a member of the European Parliament.
Her leadership of the National Front, which her father long led as a classic fascist, neo-Nazi party has been noted by her systematic expulsion of members who are neo-Nazis, anti-semites and racists, including her father.
While her father called the Holocaust "a detail in the history of WWII", she has called it "the height of barbarism".
Politically, she appears closer to the nationalism expressed by Charles de Gaulle which emphasized french independence and promotion of its culture that he felt was threatened by Anglo-Americans.
While Trump is basically an ignorant man who prides himself on taking positions based on his ample gut that are consistently fact-free, Le Pen is a formidable intellectual who does not fall into the cartoon category of leaders that we seem to be drawn to these days.
She is clearly representing a growing sentiment, not only in France, but in Europe. Brexit was only the first expression of that sentiment. It would be a mistake to lump her with the likes of Trump and his guys. She represents a budding movement in Europe, a role that France has played for a long time.
If you look at her bio, you'll find that she is a graduate of France's top law school (the same one Hollande attended), and holds a range of governmental offices one of which is as a member of the European Parliament.
Her leadership of the National Front, which her father long led as a classic fascist, neo-Nazi party has been noted by her systematic expulsion of members who are neo-Nazis, anti-semites and racists, including her father.
While her father called the Holocaust "a detail in the history of WWII", she has called it "the height of barbarism".
Politically, she appears closer to the nationalism expressed by Charles de Gaulle which emphasized french independence and promotion of its culture that he felt was threatened by Anglo-Americans.
While Trump is basically an ignorant man who prides himself on taking positions based on his ample gut that are consistently fact-free, Le Pen is a formidable intellectual who does not fall into the cartoon category of leaders that we seem to be drawn to these days.
She is clearly representing a growing sentiment, not only in France, but in Europe. Brexit was only the first expression of that sentiment. It would be a mistake to lump her with the likes of Trump and his guys. She represents a budding movement in Europe, a role that France has played for a long time.
58
As an American expat living in France, I can attest that my French colleagues woke up as shocked as I was upon hearing of Mr. Trump's win. My message to them the following day over lunch was exactly this: it can happen to you.
Ms. Le Pen is, like Mr. Trump, is an astute and razor-sharp politician, expertly glossing over previous scandals while changing her party's National Front platform to appeal to the current political climate in France. She, like Mr. Trump, keeps her proposals just radical enough to achieve two goals: appeal to the far-right base and attract non-stop news attention. Like Mr. Trump, the more people talk about her, the more she becomes accepted as a realistic candidate capable of bringing about change.
Ms. Le Pen's road to victory is this: discredit and damage the traditional party of the right (now called the Republicans) while not criticizing the most popular policies of the mainstream left (the Socialists). Her goal is a presidential run-off between her and current Socialist president Hollande, who has been plagued for years by low approval ratings. Center-right voters would have no choice but her, thus avoiding the humiliating second round defeat of her father in 2002 (when the left, faced with voting for the right or ultra-right, chose the lesser of two evils in Mr. Chirac).
Sound improbable? Yes, but no more so than a Trump White House.
France's establishment must learn very quickly that voters looking for change are not to be underestimated.
Ms. Le Pen is, like Mr. Trump, is an astute and razor-sharp politician, expertly glossing over previous scandals while changing her party's National Front platform to appeal to the current political climate in France. She, like Mr. Trump, keeps her proposals just radical enough to achieve two goals: appeal to the far-right base and attract non-stop news attention. Like Mr. Trump, the more people talk about her, the more she becomes accepted as a realistic candidate capable of bringing about change.
Ms. Le Pen's road to victory is this: discredit and damage the traditional party of the right (now called the Republicans) while not criticizing the most popular policies of the mainstream left (the Socialists). Her goal is a presidential run-off between her and current Socialist president Hollande, who has been plagued for years by low approval ratings. Center-right voters would have no choice but her, thus avoiding the humiliating second round defeat of her father in 2002 (when the left, faced with voting for the right or ultra-right, chose the lesser of two evils in Mr. Chirac).
Sound improbable? Yes, but no more so than a Trump White House.
France's establishment must learn very quickly that voters looking for change are not to be underestimated.
43
Le Pen does not have to win to change France. Her popularity – which has been increasing for some time due to the immigrant problem France seeded many years ago – is high enough that her opponents must move toward the right to remain relevant. When she says, it is not the “end of the world, but the end of a world” she is correct. We are at the beginning of what might be termed in the markets as a “correction” that has been brought about by increasing wealth inequality, the so-called elites pushing multi-culturalism down the collective gullet of the masses, and allowing migrants to stream into countries that cannot provide sufficient housing and jobs for citizens (the latter being the driving force behind the Brexit vote). While the success of Brexit and the election of Trump may ultimately prove to be counter to the best interests of those who support them, when people no longer feel they have a voice, their best interests take the back seat to a need, to paraphrase Michael Moor, throw a hand grenade at the existing order.
15
If Mr. Trump has been more classically trained, he might make hats for France reading: "Trump: Apres moi, le deluge!"
24
Trump was trained in the locker room!
If Trumpf had been trained in anything other than bullying, he could be useful to the human race.
Yes, and those hats would be made in China.
1
This is Le Pen deja vu all over again. She might be able to convince the French she has changed her spots but the French have a good idea of what the NF is. The political systems in Europe are basically designed to keep extremists out of power because of that unfortunate little incident between 1919 and 1945. It's not foolproof but usually works. In France presidential elections are two round affairs and it's not unusual for someone like Le Pen to do well in round one capturing about 30% of the vote (her father led on the first ballot twice I seem to remember) and then the big switcheroo occurs as the conservatives move to the Socialist if he's in the lead in round one or the socialists to the conservative if he's in the lead. De Gaulle knew what he was doing when he designed the constitution of the 5th Republic.
16
The problem is, that only generates more anger (rigged elections, sounds familiar?), so when the dam finally breaks, as it did in Germany in 1932, the following tsunami devours everything in its path. Like Trump is promising now.
Better to let the extremists come to a little power early and have them discover how hard governing really is. That teaches compromise and moderation. Instead of handing them the full house and the nuclear codes all in one.
Better to let the extremists come to a little power early and have them discover how hard governing really is. That teaches compromise and moderation. Instead of handing them the full house and the nuclear codes all in one.
2
Some of this political correctness is hardly to comprehend.
There are 6000 known islamists living in france, some do harm, like the killing of a married couple, both police(wo)man last year june 14. The permanent muslim alienation like in the Banlieue, the suburbs of Paris, but likewise in other big cities like Marseille is undermining the identity and security of many french. If you can not go out at night, if you always feel the threat of fear when you go into a subway-station, your daily life is affected, even if nothing happens.
This is not just about migration, it is how a government can care for its citizen. And migration is an appropriate test for policies.
If you can not lock up 6000 islamists just for their condemnation of the basic values of a whole society, if you can not find a way to deport them, or isolate them, than you have failed.
You may argue, that you need them to commit a serious crime for retaliation, but i, and i think most citizen of france will disagree. Normally you defuse a bomb before it explodes.
The french elites have to decide, who will show some dash, either them or the FN. But normally they will procrastinate, that is why Marie Le Pen is so very possible.
There are 6000 known islamists living in france, some do harm, like the killing of a married couple, both police(wo)man last year june 14. The permanent muslim alienation like in the Banlieue, the suburbs of Paris, but likewise in other big cities like Marseille is undermining the identity and security of many french. If you can not go out at night, if you always feel the threat of fear when you go into a subway-station, your daily life is affected, even if nothing happens.
This is not just about migration, it is how a government can care for its citizen. And migration is an appropriate test for policies.
If you can not lock up 6000 islamists just for their condemnation of the basic values of a whole society, if you can not find a way to deport them, or isolate them, than you have failed.
You may argue, that you need them to commit a serious crime for retaliation, but i, and i think most citizen of france will disagree. Normally you defuse a bomb before it explodes.
The french elites have to decide, who will show some dash, either them or the FN. But normally they will procrastinate, that is why Marie Le Pen is so very possible.
116
To Mathias: "There are 6000 known islamists living in france". I must say I have been puzzled by recent new stories (See NY Times "Caliphate in Peril, More ISIS Fighters May Take Mayhem to Europe) that basically says European governments don't have a plan as to how to deal with many ISIS soldiers (who are European citizens) returning from the battlefield. Don't know what to do with people who have declared war against your government and should be tried for war crimes? This is the very reason why people like Le Pen have so many followers. For all intensive purposes, it looks like maintaining the idea of open borders is more important than pursuing and detaining enemy soldiers. If France wants to keep from veering off to the far right, they are going to have to seriously address this issue.
3
"There are 6000 known islamists living in france, some do harm"
Wrong, all do harm, they believe in the same Choran, They have the right to kill all non-believers, as the choran tell them. If anybody else threatened people
to kill them, they had been jailed, why not jail the muslims living in America?
The sooner the better!
Wrong, all do harm, they believe in the same Choran, They have the right to kill all non-believers, as the choran tell them. If anybody else threatened people
to kill them, they had been jailed, why not jail the muslims living in America?
The sooner the better!
3
This from a guy who welcomed a million new ones to Europe. How is France to get rid of citizens born in France hating the French? Send them to Germany?
Meredith got it right. "Left" and "right" and all their variations can mean very different things on different sides of the Atlantic. Rarely complimentary in American politics, they're labels often worn with pride in France. To the point where funny movies have been made about the ironies of being born to the "left" - or "right" - the assumption that political views absorbed in infancy will never change. Yet the labels are ambiguous, confusing, so encrusted with history they have no single meaning, much less an agreed meaning. How fine it would be if some politician, newspaper, intellectual had the courage to chuck the labels and express their ideas and convictions in simple language.
18
I do not believe the American voters who put Trump in office were driven by fear. This is the wrong word and part of the mistake pundits made in assessing the situation was to refer to his campaign as "fear" based.
The situation is very much the same in France. The right wing rise is not based on fear. Frustration, disappoint, anger, and desperation are the real fuel behind LePen's rise. And the left wing government has been stone deaf to the voicing of these emotions.
If LePen moves into the presidency it will be because she spoke to the people's desires, needs, and deeply held convictions. Fear has already left the building.
The situation is very much the same in France. The right wing rise is not based on fear. Frustration, disappoint, anger, and desperation are the real fuel behind LePen's rise. And the left wing government has been stone deaf to the voicing of these emotions.
If LePen moves into the presidency it will be because she spoke to the people's desires, needs, and deeply held convictions. Fear has already left the building.
100
Lola: There is a certain amount of fear of giving the gov't so much power over the people. My final disgust was the president telling little girls they had to go to the bathroom with boys. When health care was regarded as a tax and not a product and the lies he told about this terrible policy was the first disgust.
5
Well spoken. Lola!!
Trump actually did not win the election--Clinton did. The election was thrown in the "electoral college." His victory says less about the supposed anger of Americans, etc., than it does about the institution that allows election winners to "lose."
The French do not have anything like an "electoral college," so Le Pen will probably not be able to win an election.
The French do not have anything like an "electoral college," so Le Pen will probably not be able to win an election.
31
The election wasn't "thrown" into the Electoral College. The EC is part of the process as developed by the Founding Fathers. Candidates develop and execute their strategy based on winning states with high EC value. Had it been a popular the vote the campaigns would have used different strategies. Get over it. HRC was an even worse candidate than Trump. The Ds have only themselves to blame.
25
Silly Al - of course Trump won the election. The contest was for electoral votes, the same as it has been for the past 200 years in the USA. If the contest would have been for popular votes, both candidates would have campaigned differently. You don't change the rules after the event to get the result you wanted.
20
AI, it all depends against whom she will be running. If the second round of the election is Sarkozy vs Le Pen or Hollande vs Le Pen, she has good chances to win, so deeply and widely despised are the last two presidents.
On the other hand, even if she wins the presidential election, she will not win the power: The French president - who is a kind of absolute monarch when the parliamentary majority is on his side - is absolutely powerless when the majority is against him. He then cannot even build a government.
And while Le Pen might win the presidential election, her party has no chance whatsoever to win a parliamentary majority.
On the other hand, even if she wins the presidential election, she will not win the power: The French president - who is a kind of absolute monarch when the parliamentary majority is on his side - is absolutely powerless when the majority is against him. He then cannot even build a government.
And while Le Pen might win the presidential election, her party has no chance whatsoever to win a parliamentary majority.
5
Social media and the internet have altered the way in which people adapt. Prior to the possibility of instantly and persistently "connecting" to distant but like-minded souls, humans took what they were handed. If they had to move, they moved. If they had to loose their jobs, they lost their jobs. They might have complained locally, but seldom in large enough numbers to really make a difference (the French Revolution, an exception) in the evolutionary trend. Now we know, we see, we feel when we are "loosing out" to others (even if those "others" have been loosing out to us for many, many years) and too many of us resent it. Fairness is a human construct, it requires our intervention and it plays out over time. Right now, around the globe too many people do not like nor accept its consequences. They (the Trumps, Le Pens, Dutartes of the present) will slow the process, but ultimately I believe justice will prevail.
7
Another demagogue whose star is in ascension. This is madness! Trump, Putin, Erdogen, Le Pen, Hofer, Brexit.
We are on a trajectory for a global upheaval like we have not experienced since WWII.
And all this against of backdrop of massive over population and an imminent Global climate disaster.
None of us will escape unscathed.
Wake up sane citizens! Time is not on our side.
We are on a trajectory for a global upheaval like we have not experienced since WWII.
And all this against of backdrop of massive over population and an imminent Global climate disaster.
None of us will escape unscathed.
Wake up sane citizens! Time is not on our side.
51
Wake up to what exactly Mr. Green. A Malthusian catastrophe, a flood of Biblical magnitude bought on by climate change. Maybe we should fear the changing political landscape of Putin's Russia, or the ever expanding Chinese currency/realestate bubble. I am not sweating a climate change flood just yet...
5
"And all this against of backdrop of massive over population and an imminent Global climate disaster."
And your solution is?....
And your solution is?....
7
You are right. Tragically so.
The French educational system -- not called 'l'Education NATIONALE' for innocent reasons -- is a formidable vector of nationalism, groupthink, and xenophobia in the most insidious ways. The French themselves mock the quality of foreign language teaching in the EN as utterly ineffective : this is actually contrived mediocrity intended to disgust French pupils with anything involving contact and exchange with other countries and cultures. Lastly, France is cursed with the same messianic vision as the United States of exceptionalism, which condemns both countries to repeating the same mistakes of adopting arrogant and conceited attitudes towards those who do not share a part in the national mythology of the respective countries.
12
iconoclast0 - "...adopting arrogant and conceited attitudes towards those who do not share a part in the national mythology of the respective countries."
In your world does "national mythology" mean patriotism and love of one's country? In your world should one love those who find a national identity gross and distasteful? Is accepting the "other" in order to change one way of life to a totally alien one the correct thing to do?
In your world does "national mythology" mean patriotism and love of one's country? In your world should one love those who find a national identity gross and distasteful? Is accepting the "other" in order to change one way of life to a totally alien one the correct thing to do?
Oh, yes, both countries have done so poorly under the concept of exceptionalism (not). They've done poorly by abandoning it.
2
The incorporation of thousands of migrants from North Africa in post-war France was solely based on a cynical need for cheap labour to reconstruct the country's infrastructure. Illiterate peasants from the hinterlands were invited to live in shantytowns in France, without the slightest regard for either their day to day welfare nor their legitimate aspirations for social mobility, at least for their offspring. Unfortunately, the myopia and arrogance of French technocrats planted the seeds for the anomie still characterizing many urban housing projects where the descendants of these labourers vegetate in a wasteland as forlorn as Native American réservations.
This is the last piece of the puzzle.
France- let's vote her in, join us and take your wonderful country back!
France- let's vote her in, join us and take your wonderful country back!
28
The future bodes ill for the Atlantic elite, their wealth and their influence. Their greed has led to these times. Not content with life changing wealth, they seek domination. Now, they will suffer depredation as eventually their wealth will not be able to buy off the retribution coming their way. After nearly two generations of the engineered downward spiral into feudalism, the serfs' rising will be all-encompassing, long-lasting and without pity. The sleeper has awakened.
21
Emile, why not read what Alexis de Tocqueville observed on his visits to America after the French Revolution? Let us cease in believing that 'The Elite' are responsible for all our ills and misfortune.
It is the Middle-Class, which is in peril, even Trump knows this, and the answer does not lie in the Rust-Belt States. We may all get a free turkey or ham for Thanksgiving, but there is a lot of work to be done. Going on about how others live on our backs is not the way to go, and will lead to the Winter of our Discontent. Hopefully you are not suggesting a bloodbath or reign of terror, where some good heads went rolling. What happened in France and Russia when 'the peasants' took over is not necessarily a tale with a happy ending, and the proof of the pudding for this American is that Democracy has taken a blow, or we would not be discussing the benefits of Rage after a Presidential election.
It is the Middle-Class, which is in peril, even Trump knows this, and the answer does not lie in the Rust-Belt States. We may all get a free turkey or ham for Thanksgiving, but there is a lot of work to be done. Going on about how others live on our backs is not the way to go, and will lead to the Winter of our Discontent. Hopefully you are not suggesting a bloodbath or reign of terror, where some good heads went rolling. What happened in France and Russia when 'the peasants' took over is not necessarily a tale with a happy ending, and the proof of the pudding for this American is that Democracy has taken a blow, or we would not be discussing the benefits of Rage after a Presidential election.
12
It sounds like Lenin speaking. His disciple Trump is preparing the gulag,,for Hispanics first.
Miss Ley - "It is the Middle-Class, which is in peril,"
Do you think that "peril" to the middle-class is coming from the poor? It is certainly not. The "peril" to the middle-class is coming from the ELITE.
Alexis de Tocqueville may have been right during his time but those times have changed. Today it is the ELITE with their unbridled arrogance telling the middle-class what they can and cannot do, what they have to pay for and how much they have to pay that creates the "peril." Especially when their rules do not bind them!
When the middle-class is no more, trampled under the boots of the ELITE, there will only be the poor for the ELITE to rule over.
Do you think that "peril" to the middle-class is coming from the poor? It is certainly not. The "peril" to the middle-class is coming from the ELITE.
Alexis de Tocqueville may have been right during his time but those times have changed. Today it is the ELITE with their unbridled arrogance telling the middle-class what they can and cannot do, what they have to pay for and how much they have to pay that creates the "peril." Especially when their rules do not bind them!
When the middle-class is no more, trampled under the boots of the ELITE, there will only be the poor for the ELITE to rule over.
2
Interesting. Nightmare scenarios abound. But will the French Police Nationale be allowed to manipulate the election? Will French libel laws allow a steady gusher of lies and distortions by the Le Pen camp against her opponents? Interesting that Le Pen uses Twitter. Is that the preferred method of communication of a demagogue?
9
Is French voting determined by gerrymanding? Is one party's goal to disenfranchise the opposition? Remove remaining social nets while reducing taxes for the top 1%? Is there a major "news" propaganda channel that feeds fear and loathing? Will she call her opponents "Devils" in person on TV and threaten to lock them up? Lie that her opponent will take away their wine and baguettes (guns here) and expect them to believe her? Even if this comes to pass, is there not a 4th Estate that is not so driven by clicks and ad revenue that there is no one of stature who will say, Madam, have you no decency? The French educational system and tradition of a 4th Estate argue against the election of someone who doesn't have the basic qualifications for elected office at the lowest level.
If "the impossible" can happen in America, the 'leader of the free world, then why it cannot happen in France ,especially since France has gone through so many terror attacks.Why France has to be an exception? France never claimed that it is the "Leader of the Free world". The French have every right to elect Ms. Le Pen as their next leader. Politics is not going to be the same in any country, anymore after US has set an example to the free world.,the world has lost its free leader.French people are fed up enough. No one is going to be surprised anymore if Ms. Le pen becomes the next leader of France. I will be surprised only if that does not happen.
28
Padman - "...the world has lost its free leader."
The liberal, progressive Democratic party lost an election therefore "the world has lost its free leader." It was exactly that type of elitist arrogance that the American people saw in the past election and was disgusted, so much so that they rebelled against the status quo.
The liberal, progressive Democratic party lost an election therefore "the world has lost its free leader." It was exactly that type of elitist arrogance that the American people saw in the past election and was disgusted, so much so that they rebelled against the status quo.
2
French benefits from a better education system. The average voter there should be able to figure out if tax cuts for the wealthiest and the gutting of their equivalent of Medicare and the privitizing of social security are in their best interests. They would have figured out that the current president has been obstructed by the R party and therefore not elected 95% of this party's candidates to Congress if "change" was desired. If Le Pen bragged about loving her uneducated followers, she'd be politically dead. France values intelligence.
1
Well, the French now have the opportunity to prove they are as driven by fear and prejudice and as eager to fall prey to demagogues as the British and Americans. Will they rise to the occasion?
41
Seldoc, there is a popular French saying 'take care of your own onions and cabbages' although I am keeping this article by Sylvie Kauffmann to remain in the loop. I know very well the reaction that would be received by some seasoned women in France. When we next have a 'weather exchange', may be the time to bring up Martine Le Pen and ask for the views of one highly sophisticated friend.
British, married to a nobleman, now a widow, it will be of interest to hear what she has to relay. She was as good as it gets when it comes to Trump, the first person I sent a message to when the United States flushed red.
The aristocrats may retrench to their castles. Not all of them are rich materially, and there is the heavy matter of taxes. 'Null', he is '"Null" and we have not had one day in the sun since he was elected' in speaking of their President two years ago. Interesting, and on an aside, because one of them ventured that the French should be careful in their dealings with Russia?
'Father, I am not a feminist' tweeted a friend who introduced me to the priest for my mother's funeral mass. Maybe they understand far more about 'Feminism' than young America, and how to put a sharp heel on it, without the burning of one's underwear. The French Revolution? The women who marched on Versailles were not fooling around. The knitters in front of Madame Guillotine splattered in blood, known as Les Tricoteuses, Dickens made them ferocious. He penned with flair and finesse.
British, married to a nobleman, now a widow, it will be of interest to hear what she has to relay. She was as good as it gets when it comes to Trump, the first person I sent a message to when the United States flushed red.
The aristocrats may retrench to their castles. Not all of them are rich materially, and there is the heavy matter of taxes. 'Null', he is '"Null" and we have not had one day in the sun since he was elected' in speaking of their President two years ago. Interesting, and on an aside, because one of them ventured that the French should be careful in their dealings with Russia?
'Father, I am not a feminist' tweeted a friend who introduced me to the priest for my mother's funeral mass. Maybe they understand far more about 'Feminism' than young America, and how to put a sharp heel on it, without the burning of one's underwear. The French Revolution? The women who marched on Versailles were not fooling around. The knitters in front of Madame Guillotine splattered in blood, known as Les Tricoteuses, Dickens made them ferocious. He penned with flair and finesse.
3
@ seldoc
I hope not but...They may. They do have a worse immigration problem than we do.
I hope not but...They may. They do have a worse immigration problem than we do.
6
How ‘far’ right is France’s right? Seems that the rw in France is not as obnoxious, threatening and damned crazy as the new president elect of the United States---the exemplary constitutional democracy.
The EU rw is not the same as our Gop-- they are more moderate---they don’t aim to dismantle their long established universal health care, for instance. Our Gop has purged all moderates. The fringe is dominant and taking over the USA.
I recall this striking NYT article: “Marine Le Pen, France’s (Kinder, Gentler) Extremist” April 29, 2011. She doesn’t believe in turning essential services like health, education, retirement, etc over to private corporations.
Article says that in the U.S. she would sound like a left-wing politician... “she shot back, “Yes, but Obama is way to the right of us,” and opined that proper government oversight would have averted the American financial crisis.”
Also UK's new PM May said on TV, she and the US have strong shared values and bonds, and she very much looks forward to working with Trump. She ignored the interviewers question on how she regards his abusive treatment of women.
The EU rw is not the same as our Gop-- they are more moderate---they don’t aim to dismantle their long established universal health care, for instance. Our Gop has purged all moderates. The fringe is dominant and taking over the USA.
I recall this striking NYT article: “Marine Le Pen, France’s (Kinder, Gentler) Extremist” April 29, 2011. She doesn’t believe in turning essential services like health, education, retirement, etc over to private corporations.
Article says that in the U.S. she would sound like a left-wing politician... “she shot back, “Yes, but Obama is way to the right of us,” and opined that proper government oversight would have averted the American financial crisis.”
Also UK's new PM May said on TV, she and the US have strong shared values and bonds, and she very much looks forward to working with Trump. She ignored the interviewers question on how she regards his abusive treatment of women.
32
Eroperans right is not exactly a GOP match in Europe. Need to remember that socialism is deeply rooted in European genes, and even far right they are strong advocates of robust social security. Even Nazis provided solid social benefits. Obviously for those whom they are not planned to eliminate.
European right is about restoring national, even Christian character of respective states. The part of such restoration is a strong crash on emigrants and refugees, especially illegal.
European right is about restoring national, even Christian character of respective states. The part of such restoration is a strong crash on emigrants and refugees, especially illegal.
13
Bear in mind too that Trump repeatedly campaigned on not touching Social Security, even pointing out--to the horror of the RNC--that's what the other Republican candidates were planning to do. Paul Krugman has pointed to polls showing overwhelming support for SS and Medicare in their present forms--even among Republican voters. One also found little enthusiasm for the Iraq invasion among the French (and continental in general) right.
My personal predictions that is Le Pen will not take. Europeans, generally still are not ready to vote for non-system candidate. However it doesn't matter. You need to see things in broader approach. Trump's victory gave terrific boost to anti-globalism. And this will widen all over Europe, no matter who will be a president in this country or another. True democratic governments, which care for real needs and problems of the majority, not minorities will come to the power.
19
My partner (who lived in France for some years) has just returned from a trip to SW France to sort out some residual business matters, staying and talking with French friends there. She commented on return that there is a good deal of discontent with the 'ruling elites' and the effects of the EU, and the immigration policies. Some, far from being mortified by Brexit, would like the option too. And there is also an underlying fear of extreme Islam - another serious terrorist attack could well propel Ms Le Pen to the Presidency! One fears that the people in Paris may well be living in the same perception bubble as those in London, over Brexit.
51
Ms Le Pen definitely puts a more attractive face on her party's hateful bigotry. Jews and Muslims are right to be worried. However, I hope that if the left wing parties are willing to engage in more open discussions about immigration and assimilation that they can help diffuse some of the anger and keep people within the fold. But with a stagnating economy and a population on edge - I do think she has a frightfully good chance. I feel like I've been transported back to 1930.
12
The thing Jewish people in France are worried about is decidedly not the Front National.
62
Jews are fleeing France precisely because of the violence and threats directed their way by muslim immigrants. It's not the Front National threatening their lives.
16
Lest we forget, Nazism came out of western Europe, Communism with all it's morbid heavy handedness also had its roots there. To a large extent we are the off-spring of those human killing machines. Trump's family is directly descended from them as his wife. The Bushes and Koch's are also direct descendants of the American First movement of the 30's.
First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me
It is happening again and we are in the thick of it. Have we learned a lesson from what came before? No. Are our institutions up to the task at hand, of countering this wave of lies? After this election, no. We have elected another liar from a lying party with the complicity of much of our liberal press including the NYT.
Little pieces like this do nothing to stem the anger that is brewing under the surface. When the Trump voters find out he cannot keep his promises and they sink deeper into debt and continue to see the top 0.1 flourish in their gated communities and private schools, there will be a reckoning. The French Revolution, of which Thomas Jefferson was so pleased with, was also brought on by middle class disgust. Will off with their heads be the next middle class rallying cry?
First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me
It is happening again and we are in the thick of it. Have we learned a lesson from what came before? No. Are our institutions up to the task at hand, of countering this wave of lies? After this election, no. We have elected another liar from a lying party with the complicity of much of our liberal press including the NYT.
Little pieces like this do nothing to stem the anger that is brewing under the surface. When the Trump voters find out he cannot keep his promises and they sink deeper into debt and continue to see the top 0.1 flourish in their gated communities and private schools, there will be a reckoning. The French Revolution, of which Thomas Jefferson was so pleased with, was also brought on by middle class disgust. Will off with their heads be the next middle class rallying cry?
18
Just for good order: the quote is from Bertold Brecht.
"Will 'off with their heads' be the next middle class rallying cry?"
Probably not, but it has always been an Islamic one, a fact that many in the west are waking up to then have to watch our politicians and media say in their obvious poker face that Islam is peace, saying this nonsense even before the blood has stopped flowing from yet another atrocity committed by the adherents of this horrific ideology.
Probably not, but it has always been an Islamic one, a fact that many in the west are waking up to then have to watch our politicians and media say in their obvious poker face that Islam is peace, saying this nonsense even before the blood has stopped flowing from yet another atrocity committed by the adherents of this horrific ideology.
2
It wasn't bad enough to give Trump attention and a platform, now you give this woman space in your newspaper. And it is also interesting that this is one of the few articles open to comment today. Heads up NYTimes: France has other candidates that deserve coverage and have as much chance, even more than this marginal daughter of French facsim. She is struggling for legitimacy and your article plays right into that. Instead of looking at what she says, which is fearmongering, try taking it apart and do some reporting and show us where she came from and who she really is behind the glossy photo you put up with the article.
135
she's a favorite to make it to the second round, only an unholy alliance of the other parties can stop her... but please, close your eyes and ears and rush to your safe spot....
5
Clearly you have not understood the lessons from last week. It is by de-legitimizing Trump or Le Pen that you make them electable. Surprise, surprise: voters do not want to hear only about the same old reheated dishes.
8
To fight muslims is the opposite of facsism just that simple!
2
The common ingredient Le Pen and Trump use is fear, that very often turn people into irrational behaviour, like voting against their own interests. Fear of what? Life, aging, unemployment, but mainly fear of competition from the outside, so that pollsters and the media fail to grasp its first uprisings, and density.
A big difference between the two leaders is that Trump really is an outsider of politics whereas Le Pen is a shrewd politician, professional even if banned by the establishment. Now that she is so high in polls, we expect large numbers of her contempters among the politicians to start belly dancing to please her.
Same with TV outlets.
Irrationality pays. Bigly.
A big difference between the two leaders is that Trump really is an outsider of politics whereas Le Pen is a shrewd politician, professional even if banned by the establishment. Now that she is so high in polls, we expect large numbers of her contempters among the politicians to start belly dancing to please her.
Same with TV outlets.
Irrationality pays. Bigly.
5
What seems most probable after Trump's electoral victory : France reinstates the draft and bites the bullet to expand its defence budget because Washington will no longer shoulder this burden anymore. I wonder whether a potential President Marine Le Pen would have the courage to convince her electorate of this eventuality.
5
I do not think she will win because people in France have a much better safety net than the people in the US do. But these are uncertain times. With the EU, England and the US doing the unthinkable, who knows what is next.
10
Not only is Ms Le Pen getting published in the New York Times, but she also makes it to front page because a French journalist is so keen to get published in there, be it at the price of contributing to make Le Pen a celebrity.
1
Bosh, Monsieur, for Le Pen has been around for awhile, and "Mr. IT" has opened the flood-gates to a possible State Police driven country.
4
“finally listen to the social distress and understand people’s attachment to security, identity and sovereignty,” - If only politicians would.
It's not a question of if the "French can do better", It's a question of if Politicans can manage the electorate's fears. Looking at the rise of parties like the National Front, I doubt it.
It's not a question of if the "French can do better", It's a question of if Politicans can manage the electorate's fears. Looking at the rise of parties like the National Front, I doubt it.
7
Not to pull rank, but I don't believe Americans living in the US have the necessary perspective to gauge le Pen and her relative position either in France or how her political beliefs measure up next to American politicians.
Having feet on the ground full time for years in France provides the necessary information to weigh Marine's movement over time as compared to the machinations of other French politicians.
Her basic positions pale in comparison to Trump's campaign prouncements and make her appear reasonable in comparison to the French. She wants to bring back border control, leave the EU, and firm up immigration of potential workers for which France has no jobs.
The world is becoming more sympathetic to Australia's position on immigration and gun control realizing that, when possible, it's preferable to keep potential refugees in their own country and provide foreign aide than it is to move millions to other countries unprepared or unwilling to accept them.
To summarize, Marine le Pen is a softie compared to Trump and this perspective could smooth her way into the French presidency!
Having feet on the ground full time for years in France provides the necessary information to weigh Marine's movement over time as compared to the machinations of other French politicians.
Her basic positions pale in comparison to Trump's campaign prouncements and make her appear reasonable in comparison to the French. She wants to bring back border control, leave the EU, and firm up immigration of potential workers for which France has no jobs.
The world is becoming more sympathetic to Australia's position on immigration and gun control realizing that, when possible, it's preferable to keep potential refugees in their own country and provide foreign aide than it is to move millions to other countries unprepared or unwilling to accept them.
To summarize, Marine le Pen is a softie compared to Trump and this perspective could smooth her way into the French presidency!
64
You do realize that the author of the article is a former Le Monde editor - couldn't be more French living in France. Eminently qualified to give a credible French opinion.
18
Re Australia's position on immigration: Australia is an island. Europe ain't.
1
Perhaps you missed something. Sylvie Kauffman was editorial director and former editor in chief of Le Monde. I don't think she did that from Des Moines.
8
Mitterand nailed it, referring to 'social distress' and the failure of democracies to "“finally listen to the social distress and understand people’s attachment to security, identity and sovereignty,”
Brexit received a massive boost from Angela Merkel's catastrophic decision to let in over a million refugees, many of whom are undocumented and uncontrolled. Her insufferable arrogance and personal ambition led her to make such a far reaching decision against the will of the people and even against the will of her own party.
So revolutionary parties are taking matters into their own hands. Marine Le Pen may not win, but the elites have been shaken up and are now in a race against time to prevent her from winning.
Brexit received a massive boost from Angela Merkel's catastrophic decision to let in over a million refugees, many of whom are undocumented and uncontrolled. Her insufferable arrogance and personal ambition led her to make such a far reaching decision against the will of the people and even against the will of her own party.
So revolutionary parties are taking matters into their own hands. Marine Le Pen may not win, but the elites have been shaken up and are now in a race against time to prevent her from winning.
47
After Brexit and Trump, many here in France say "why not Le Pen?"
It could happen. It's almost certain she'll make the second round and, unlike her father's second round appearance in 2002, it won't be an accident.
As we have seen, anything is possible these days.
It could happen. It's almost certain she'll make the second round and, unlike her father's second round appearance in 2002, it won't be an accident.
As we have seen, anything is possible these days.
16
Whether it's Trump, LePen, Farage, Putin in 1999, Hitler in 1930's, Mussolini in 1922, or any other demagogue throughout recent history, the formula is largely the same. One part jingoism + one part promise of prosperity + one part scapegoating = power.
We thought we had gone far enough from that kind of politics for it to work in the Western world, but Trump's victory says otherwise.
So, yes, why should Marine Le Pen not be emboldened? Trump has proven the old formula still works.
We thought we had gone far enough from that kind of politics for it to work in the Western world, but Trump's victory says otherwise.
So, yes, why should Marine Le Pen not be emboldened? Trump has proven the old formula still works.
19
Godwin's Law....was waiting for that.
1
I sure hope we can do it better.
My God, NOW the French want to be like America?
Vive la différence!
Vive la différence!
5
Trump's victory, via the Electoral College, is not contested now, but many folks would applaud him if he could get rid of this anti-democratic method (otherwise, Ms Clinton would have won; as would Gore, saving the country from two disastrous wars). In Europe, Trump's win ought to be a waker-upper, so those that are or feel disenfranchised can be included in the political conversation, and their lot improved. If le Pen were to win, however unlikely that is (as was Trump's, remember), would create havoc in the vast immigrant population, already unable or unwilling to become integrated in French society, as jobs are scarce, and cultures values dissonant. And strongmen/women gaining power as populists in France, may have a harder time in trying to muzzle the Press and get things done expeditiously so to keep enough political capital to govern effectively. Without meaning to demean the widely diverse American population, I suspect the French are better educated and politically savvy. We shall see.
3
What an irony! That the French and the British, people who for years robbed the rest of world of their resources, are now beginning to complaint about globalization? For those of us from these countries that were at one time their (France and Britain) colonies and victims of their robbery, I find the rise of people like Marie Le Pen and frustrations about globalization, the epitome of French arrogance. When it's time to rob, like they did over Algeria and other African countries' resources, they call it the French mission to "civilize" the rest of the world, but when they find immigrants on their borders, they complaint about globalization. What a shame.
9
Well, certain apologists for immigrants in France label the latter's presence as a form of reverse colonialism, just a way of getting the old colonial masters a way to pay back for past injustices forced upon the colonized. Algeria is an excellent case study : France practised a form of governance which could have set the mould for Apartheid South Africa with its distinct pecking order of Europeans, Jews, and 'indigènes', the last of whom were not permitted to be schooled in native tongues. So to understand the present and see where we are going, it is important to bone up on one's history.
2
The clock wouldn't tick if the pendulum didn't swing back and forth..
9
Before everyone gets hysterical, her anti-Semitic crackpot father was thrown out of the National Front, with something like a 95% vote for getting rid of him.
14
That is correct, but there is a steady stream of French Jews leaving the country. The defenestration of Le Pen father was mostly a maquillage to exile a ranting old man.
1
The steady stream of French Jews leaving the country is due to the daily fear and threat from militant French Islamists; not due to the National Front.
5
Yes, but only partially as that coupled with Le Pen's ascent is cause for deep concern for the future.
No one is good at self-criticism; it doesn't matter anyway as the die is cast. The elites will not persuade the unhappy to modify their feelings.
It's just a question of whether enough Frenchmen and women feel empowered to speak honestly, rather than timidly about the devastating changes being wrought in their country in the name of tolerance and diversity.
It's just a question of whether enough Frenchmen and women feel empowered to speak honestly, rather than timidly about the devastating changes being wrought in their country in the name of tolerance and diversity.
25
Who the heck knows what is happening in this world of ours. Citizens of democracies are choosing to cut off their noses to spite their faces. They are so angry, so frustrated with their governments instead of acting rationally and uniting around someone who may actually do them some good, if not Hillary than a Bernie Sanders, they decided on a genuine know-nothing, a demagogue who hasn't a clue how to govern, only how to dictate as CEO's do. When anger takes over one's psyche hate blindly leads them to make decisions which defy any sort of logic. Now they will see the consequences of their idiocy. They are about to get the Fearless Fuhrer they want, and they deserve to get it, good and hard.
DD
Manhattan
DD
Manhattan
13
A very lucid comment. One should never make decisions when strong emotions cloud one's reasoning. The Trumpists will have to accept the package deal, even it means their womenfolk won't have decent access to birth control, for example. America sure is getting great again !
6
The USA is the center of the Western civilization: what the USA elects becomes the new normal or at least socially acceptable to Europe.
When Le Pen's party lost in the last regional elections, many people in France thought her ambitions were over. It didn't take into consideration the possibility of Trump's victory in the USA. In those elections, France's establishment did everything possible to hold her off - including some extreme cases where the socialist candidate drop off for the center-right candidate with the sole objective of containing FN.
The Socialist Party is so desperate to contain the rise of the FN that it is ready to support Sarkozy's center-right or whatever just to not put Le Pen into power next year. Trump's election made this mission more difficult, but the ultimate fault is of the Socialist Party, which betrayed the French working class and governed as a neoliberal party.
When Le Pen's party lost in the last regional elections, many people in France thought her ambitions were over. It didn't take into consideration the possibility of Trump's victory in the USA. In those elections, France's establishment did everything possible to hold her off - including some extreme cases where the socialist candidate drop off for the center-right candidate with the sole objective of containing FN.
The Socialist Party is so desperate to contain the rise of the FN that it is ready to support Sarkozy's center-right or whatever just to not put Le Pen into power next year. Trump's election made this mission more difficult, but the ultimate fault is of the Socialist Party, which betrayed the French working class and governed as a neoliberal party.
9
It's probably safe to say that many Americans had not heard of Marine LePen before now. And even though it may seem hard to believe, with all of her far right-wing banter, her father, Jean-Marie Le Pen was worse.
In fact, he was so much worse, that Marine effectively banned him from 'Le Front National' (FN), which he not only helped to found, but led until five years ago when his vituperative anti-immigrant speeches threatened to torpedo attempts to bring the party closer into the mainstream political arena.
This trend toward nationalistic populism has now taken route all over Europe. In Germany, the neo-Nazi Alternative für Deutschland (AfD) has even gained a foothold in the Bundestag (Parliament) -- something no one ever thought would be possible again.
And with the recent U.S. election, it appears as though this trend has skipped over the Atlantic to reach our shores.
Now the impossible not only seems possible, it has become very real.
In fact, he was so much worse, that Marine effectively banned him from 'Le Front National' (FN), which he not only helped to found, but led until five years ago when his vituperative anti-immigrant speeches threatened to torpedo attempts to bring the party closer into the mainstream political arena.
This trend toward nationalistic populism has now taken route all over Europe. In Germany, the neo-Nazi Alternative für Deutschland (AfD) has even gained a foothold in the Bundestag (Parliament) -- something no one ever thought would be possible again.
And with the recent U.S. election, it appears as though this trend has skipped over the Atlantic to reach our shores.
Now the impossible not only seems possible, it has become very real.
9
Because Le Pen is a white nationalist, I will never entertain what she thinks, says, or does.
Because Trump has given white nationlists like Bannon the driver's seat inside the White House, Trump will never be my president.
Both are indescribably sickening.
Because Trump has given white nationlists like Bannon the driver's seat inside the White House, Trump will never be my president.
Both are indescribably sickening.
9
So when are you going to try to incite liberal elements within the artistic and intellectual community abroad to boycott shows and academic missions in Trump's United States? A nice project to start, I should think.
1
Clearly this national movement is spreading, but people like Trump ultimately fall. They fall but by the time they do that the country is in tatters. I hope the French people are smarter than the US voter.
19
In France, where the President is elected by the popular vote, the election of Le Pen would indicate a huge shift in French values, going back to their Revolution. And for that reason, I am skeptical the National Front will ever take power.
In contrast, the US elects presidents with the undemocratic Electoral College--and so the result bears no resemblance to the actual voting of American citizens. Witness the 2,000,000 more citizens who voted for Hillary over Trump. Presidential elections in the US are a fraud. Here, the Director of the FBI can overturn the will of the people by abusing the powers of his office. Republicans can gerrymander Congressional districts to keep their representatives in office for generations. Unlimited sums of dark money can make some candidates impregnable or inevitable. American elections are neither free nor fair. They are illegitimate, but there is no element of government to hold them to the constitution. The Supreme Court is paralyzed. Votes are now worthless. The French are not there yet.
In contrast, the US elects presidents with the undemocratic Electoral College--and so the result bears no resemblance to the actual voting of American citizens. Witness the 2,000,000 more citizens who voted for Hillary over Trump. Presidential elections in the US are a fraud. Here, the Director of the FBI can overturn the will of the people by abusing the powers of his office. Republicans can gerrymander Congressional districts to keep their representatives in office for generations. Unlimited sums of dark money can make some candidates impregnable or inevitable. American elections are neither free nor fair. They are illegitimate, but there is no element of government to hold them to the constitution. The Supreme Court is paralyzed. Votes are now worthless. The French are not there yet.
65
US elections are a fraud when your candidate loses.
Do what Trump voters did: vote, not cry in the streets.
Do what Trump voters did: vote, not cry in the streets.
3
'Impossible is not French' was a first sentence I remember being taught as a child at school in Paris. Granted I was not the brightest of young minds and learning a second language, without a first one added to one's pony tail, can be problematic.
The impossible has become possible here in the US of A, and there is even an article about how to handle one's anger, or joy as the case may be. 'Your relative is upset' from a passionate Irish friend earlier. This was cause for confusion because I know two bright women in the family circle, they do not know each other and have never met. I had heard from one already who was in a state of rage, the other is a brilliant academic mind and a published feminist.
When the Pope came on his tour to America, my Irish friend was asked to welcome to a Mass he gave, some US politicians and visiting dignitaries. 'Saw Jeb Bush. He's nice. The Supreme Court sailed by, and I didn't like Marine Le Pen'.
Who? After doing a little research, I reported back that the woman may have had a rough day according to news received. 'Paris', the one I know, remains cordial and sensitive about our state of affairs. Thanksgiving, family matters and gentle pleasantries are the order of the day. Since it is alright now to be 'rude' under our new regime, may I suggest that the photo of Marine Le Pen gave me a rather unpleasant jolt?
The impossible has become possible here in the US of A, and there is even an article about how to handle one's anger, or joy as the case may be. 'Your relative is upset' from a passionate Irish friend earlier. This was cause for confusion because I know two bright women in the family circle, they do not know each other and have never met. I had heard from one already who was in a state of rage, the other is a brilliant academic mind and a published feminist.
When the Pope came on his tour to America, my Irish friend was asked to welcome to a Mass he gave, some US politicians and visiting dignitaries. 'Saw Jeb Bush. He's nice. The Supreme Court sailed by, and I didn't like Marine Le Pen'.
Who? After doing a little research, I reported back that the woman may have had a rough day according to news received. 'Paris', the one I know, remains cordial and sensitive about our state of affairs. Thanksgiving, family matters and gentle pleasantries are the order of the day. Since it is alright now to be 'rude' under our new regime, may I suggest that the photo of Marine Le Pen gave me a rather unpleasant jolt?
1
In alphabetical order, The Americans, The British, The French, and the Germans, all on the same page is very possible.
8
I suppose if Ms. Le Pen loses the progressives will be between a rock and a hard place; Was it because she was a woman or because she was a nationalist?
5
Franco really emboldened a lot of people. They figured if he could do it, they could too.
2
Heck, Hitler emboldened millions of people world wide.
1
While Trump is the flavor the month, he really has nothing to do with the French election. Le Pen's embrace of Trump is a negative for her, as Trump is likely to have an approval rating under 20% among the French.
Sarkozy will not win the right's Presidential primary. Fillon might but is a long-shot. So let's settle on Juppé as the likely choice at this moment. Then it will be Juppé vs Le Pen facing each other in the second-round of the Presidential election.
Juppé is running a socially inclusive campaign with a right-wing economic program. If he ran a typical campaign - complaining about unemployment and offering ideas how to improve it - he would trounce Le Pen badly, probably 65% to 35%. This is patly because the vast majority of the French prefer Juppé's vision of French society to Le Pen's. It is also because the rest of Le Pen's program is anti-Eu and anti-euro, and the French public is attached to the EU and the euro.
But Juppé is not running the typical campaign. He has said that he will take his election as a mandate for his program, which includes raising the retirement age to 70, a very unpopular measure. If Le Pen can transform the election into a referendum on his program, if she can convince the electorate that voting for her is a "no" vote on Juppé's economic program and not a "yes" vote for her own, then she has a good chance of winning.
Sarkozy will not win the right's Presidential primary. Fillon might but is a long-shot. So let's settle on Juppé as the likely choice at this moment. Then it will be Juppé vs Le Pen facing each other in the second-round of the Presidential election.
Juppé is running a socially inclusive campaign with a right-wing economic program. If he ran a typical campaign - complaining about unemployment and offering ideas how to improve it - he would trounce Le Pen badly, probably 65% to 35%. This is patly because the vast majority of the French prefer Juppé's vision of French society to Le Pen's. It is also because the rest of Le Pen's program is anti-Eu and anti-euro, and the French public is attached to the EU and the euro.
But Juppé is not running the typical campaign. He has said that he will take his election as a mandate for his program, which includes raising the retirement age to 70, a very unpopular measure. If Le Pen can transform the election into a referendum on his program, if she can convince the electorate that voting for her is a "no" vote on Juppé's economic program and not a "yes" vote for her own, then she has a good chance of winning.
4
Not so sure the situations are really comparable.
Yes, there is an element of nativism here and in France that both Trump and Le Pen attract. But the complex of motivations that led so many, in such key venues, to elect Trump really aren’t present in France. Of course, France is far less a PC society than ours when it comes to protection of French culture, so that alone may propel Le Pen to the presidency; but economic and other factors won’t contribute as much there as here.
There is a social welfare buffer in France that dissipates the economic dissatisfaction we saw so intensely expressed here last Tuesday, and that I contend had a decisive effect on Trump’s narrow win. What’s more, France does not suffer the same kind of religious fervor in so many of its people as we do: Marine Le Pen has adapted to and supports France’s secular modes of governance, and wouldn’t benefit as Trump did from a large contingent of religious social conservatives.
Of course she could win. But the U.S. and France are too basically different for Trump’s election to bleed that much into her viability.
Yes, there is an element of nativism here and in France that both Trump and Le Pen attract. But the complex of motivations that led so many, in such key venues, to elect Trump really aren’t present in France. Of course, France is far less a PC society than ours when it comes to protection of French culture, so that alone may propel Le Pen to the presidency; but economic and other factors won’t contribute as much there as here.
There is a social welfare buffer in France that dissipates the economic dissatisfaction we saw so intensely expressed here last Tuesday, and that I contend had a decisive effect on Trump’s narrow win. What’s more, France does not suffer the same kind of religious fervor in so many of its people as we do: Marine Le Pen has adapted to and supports France’s secular modes of governance, and wouldn’t benefit as Trump did from a large contingent of religious social conservatives.
Of course she could win. But the U.S. and France are too basically different for Trump’s election to bleed that much into her viability.
37
@Richard Luettgen
I guess the "blockade" of my city (Montauban) due to begin in 1 hour by our region's farmers isn't a signal that people are suffering here just like middle America. EU farm policies and the West's sanctions on Russia have hurt every farm family in this country. The EU is seen as for what it is, an complete failure on the economic and security front. The people aren't in the mood for politicians who ignore them (referendum on the Lisbon Treaty). Religious social conservatives here are still "wounded" from the "marriage for all" law, and Mme LePen's party does not support Muslims. She wants the borders permanently closed (get rid of Schengen). RIchard,, you have no idea how many parallels there are between French and American feelings of abandonment by the left and the right.
I guess the "blockade" of my city (Montauban) due to begin in 1 hour by our region's farmers isn't a signal that people are suffering here just like middle America. EU farm policies and the West's sanctions on Russia have hurt every farm family in this country. The EU is seen as for what it is, an complete failure on the economic and security front. The people aren't in the mood for politicians who ignore them (referendum on the Lisbon Treaty). Religious social conservatives here are still "wounded" from the "marriage for all" law, and Mme LePen's party does not support Muslims. She wants the borders permanently closed (get rid of Schengen). RIchard,, you have no idea how many parallels there are between French and American feelings of abandonment by the left and the right.
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@Richard Luettgen, I totally agree. And while the frightening awfulness of a Trump presidency must be a warning to all Western nations, there are undeniable features in both the American political system (i.e. Electoral College) and its socio-political culture (ex slavery racism, extemely low voter turnout, extreme religiosity hand-in-hand with neo-con politics) that do not exist in Europe, just as the European welfare state does not exist in the US.
Nonetheless, these are definitely times to be very, very wary and alert.
Nonetheless, these are definitely times to be very, very wary and alert.
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The welfare state may diffuse the economic hardship but it does not suppress resentment. Many people can’t find jobs and see immigrants, either as taking their jobs or as benefitting undeservedly from the welfare state. With regard to religion, Le Pen has indeed adapted to the secular modes of governance: she will accuse immigrants of rejecting the values of the Republic, while her conservative views will appeal to conservative catholics. She says that France has christian roots secularized by the enlightenment. This is essentially true but she is not actually defending the enlightenment. Everyone understands what she really means.
The danger with Trump is that all these movements across Europe will feel vindicated. Some already have the financial support of Russia (including Le Pen’s party), now they will get the open political support of Trump (reportedly, MP Marion-Maréchal Le Pen has already been contacted by Bannon to work together). Trump’s narcissism might become Europe’s undoing. He needs recognition as a great leader: he won’t get it at home (These unfair protesters!) and will want an international following to boast his success at home. I very much doubt that he will get the recognition he needs from any of Europe’s current liberal leaders. I rather expect more cringeful moments such those seen at Al Smith dinner after the third debate. Trump will need illiberal leaders in Europe to prove to himself, to the world, and the to the USA how great a leader he is.
The danger with Trump is that all these movements across Europe will feel vindicated. Some already have the financial support of Russia (including Le Pen’s party), now they will get the open political support of Trump (reportedly, MP Marion-Maréchal Le Pen has already been contacted by Bannon to work together). Trump’s narcissism might become Europe’s undoing. He needs recognition as a great leader: he won’t get it at home (These unfair protesters!) and will want an international following to boast his success at home. I very much doubt that he will get the recognition he needs from any of Europe’s current liberal leaders. I rather expect more cringeful moments such those seen at Al Smith dinner after the third debate. Trump will need illiberal leaders in Europe to prove to himself, to the world, and the to the USA how great a leader he is.
1