Making this about sexism and or race is the biggest mistake the Democratic Party could have committed. Democrats need to genuinely examine what went wrong - where they went wrong - and how they miscalculated. Blaming it on race or gender, or even the electoral college, anything other than their own mistakes, is just a way to get us all "wee weed up" to borrow a phrase from our president. It was an epic failure that someone like Trump won. Time to own that and examine why without stereotyping people or admitting to failure.
21
I´ve been waiting for this analysis and it´s one of the most important lessons from this election, at least imho.
Far too often nowadays, gender is used as an defining characteristic of humans, like "women are like this" and "men are like that", leading to generalizations like: "Women will never vote for a misogynist".
Hey, we just learned that´s wrong, maybe it will help us to remember that women are as diverse a group as men and, just maybe, they are normal people, in general not better or worse than men. As a group, obviously!
Far too often nowadays, gender is used as an defining characteristic of humans, like "women are like this" and "men are like that", leading to generalizations like: "Women will never vote for a misogynist".
Hey, we just learned that´s wrong, maybe it will help us to remember that women are as diverse a group as men and, just maybe, they are normal people, in general not better or worse than men. As a group, obviously!
9
Don't bet on it.
1
"53 % of white women" seems inflated. Maybe that percentage of white female voters. Lots of non-voting women and men.
5
Hillary Clinton was not just any female candidate, and she did not fail America. America failed Hillary Clinton. She countered her opposition’s fiery propaganda with steadfast grace and dignity. She was ranked as the most admired woman in our nation for a record 20 years, yet we let her be consumed by a single disgusting slogan: Lock Her Up. History has a long memory, and once all the tweets and headlines are reexamined, we’ll see more clearly how sexism played a role in this election. For those of us who believe that there is no one in this country who has done more for human rights than Hillary Clinton, we are still with her.
29
This article should be titled "The Myth of White Women Solidarity"---for many others, this is not a myth.
9
First of all, no one is suggesting that all women should have voted for Hillary- merely that the lack of enthusiasm for electing a (highly qualified) female candidate says a lot about our country.
I voted for Obama in 2008 (& 2012) for 2 reasons: I thought he was the better candidate and I was excited to elect a black American president, which I believed would push our society toward becoming the fair and inclusive one that we Americans like to say that it is.
The current election pitted a highly experienced candidate with a career in public service, who also happened to be woman, against a racist misogynist tax-dodger with no experience in government. And where was the enthusiasm? I'll admit that I am angry at the many groups who contributed to this outcome.
There are numerous issues of equality that women continue to face and that have changed little over the years: the persistent gender wage gap, never-ending attempts to control women's bodies, higher cost of healthcare, maternity leave. But there are always "more important" issues out there.
Parents now tell their daughters they can do anything and be anything. This election, along with the lack of women in the highest levels of business and government, however, shows that this is not true. Better to tell young women that although they are equally as capable as men, that society consistently undervalues women, and that this will never change unless Americans (and women in particular) demand that it change.
I voted for Obama in 2008 (& 2012) for 2 reasons: I thought he was the better candidate and I was excited to elect a black American president, which I believed would push our society toward becoming the fair and inclusive one that we Americans like to say that it is.
The current election pitted a highly experienced candidate with a career in public service, who also happened to be woman, against a racist misogynist tax-dodger with no experience in government. And where was the enthusiasm? I'll admit that I am angry at the many groups who contributed to this outcome.
There are numerous issues of equality that women continue to face and that have changed little over the years: the persistent gender wage gap, never-ending attempts to control women's bodies, higher cost of healthcare, maternity leave. But there are always "more important" issues out there.
Parents now tell their daughters they can do anything and be anything. This election, along with the lack of women in the highest levels of business and government, however, shows that this is not true. Better to tell young women that although they are equally as capable as men, that society consistently undervalues women, and that this will never change unless Americans (and women in particular) demand that it change.
19
I'm sorry but how can anyone with common sense assume that all women would support a particular candidate in an election? We are all individuals, men and women, people of different races, ages, sexual orientations, etc. It's 2016 people! Let's just see people as people and not as members of a unified group which acts in a robotic manner. Basically, let's have some common sense.
13
It seems to me that the issue of female solidarity arises only when the candidate is on the left. I don't recall similar concerns when Sarah Palin was running. It is true that Palin was not an ideal candidate but I would predict that a highly qualified, conservative female candidate will never be supported by feminist advocacy groups.
16
We act like chimps more than bonobos.
I would rather be a bonobo.
Chimp women, I think they just compete for the men and their attention
Give me a banana and I'll let you boink me kinda society is what I hear
Bonobos they don't compete, they share. They don't barter for attention, they just give it too each other.
Somehow, the women - 'scuse me - female bonobos lead their species. I can say are in charge, because they distribute the power - they use the power to take care of each other and spread the bait of care.
Anthropologists research indicates human females are like that too when they hold the power. Technically, there are no matriarchal societies, just matrilineal - you know, like the Navajo.
And while I'm on the subject. I really am looking forward to the day when I can be all woman in the world of business. I don't wanna do it like a man, I wanna do it like the more collaborative female part of me. Collaborate. To balance the male competitive part of me.
Notice I didn't say instead of - both/and, not either/or - that's just a black and white filter in a technicolor world
I would rather be a bonobo.
Chimp women, I think they just compete for the men and their attention
Give me a banana and I'll let you boink me kinda society is what I hear
Bonobos they don't compete, they share. They don't barter for attention, they just give it too each other.
Somehow, the women - 'scuse me - female bonobos lead their species. I can say are in charge, because they distribute the power - they use the power to take care of each other and spread the bait of care.
Anthropologists research indicates human females are like that too when they hold the power. Technically, there are no matriarchal societies, just matrilineal - you know, like the Navajo.
And while I'm on the subject. I really am looking forward to the day when I can be all woman in the world of business. I don't wanna do it like a man, I wanna do it like the more collaborative female part of me. Collaborate. To balance the male competitive part of me.
Notice I didn't say instead of - both/and, not either/or - that's just a black and white filter in a technicolor world
6
How about women like me who didn't vote for her because among other things she told her Wall St. supporters she has a private position for them and another for the rest of us fools? Granted I live in New York which was safely for her. Had I lived in any remotely swing state I would have held my nose and voted for her because of the horror that Trump is. That said, I can't relate to her as a woman--she sold her soul out to the establishment a long time ago and will support any war, trade deal, etc., and demean any woman that would stand in the way of her making history.
26
The idea that I should vote for Clinton because I am a woman is insulting. I voted for Obama because he was clearly very intelligent and he understood that the country wanted a change from "politics as usual," not because of his race. One of his speeches was so inspiring, it moved me to tears. No other politician in my lifetime ever said anything that moved me to tears. Obama conducts himself with integrity and there are no scandals attached to his name.
There are some things I am liberal on and some things that I lean libertarian on. I really liked the integrity and authenticity of Sanders, though some of his policies seemed too likely to expand federal government. But, I agree that the shrinking middle class is a major problem. Most countries throughout history that lose the middle class wind up with revolutions. The popularity of Sanders and Trump relates with the fact that we are headed in the direction of revolution. People are upset with the economy and terrorism. They are upset with the power-hungry DNC and RNC. There is a leaked email indicating the Clinton campaign wanted Trump or Cruz to win the Republican primary - no coverage of that in NYT...
Many woman have become leaders in the last 30 years. Mothers of young children, however, still have it tough. Try finding a part-time management job as an older new mom... There are tons of full-time job options for me, but I want to actually be a mom to my child until she is in school, but can't do that.
There are some things I am liberal on and some things that I lean libertarian on. I really liked the integrity and authenticity of Sanders, though some of his policies seemed too likely to expand federal government. But, I agree that the shrinking middle class is a major problem. Most countries throughout history that lose the middle class wind up with revolutions. The popularity of Sanders and Trump relates with the fact that we are headed in the direction of revolution. People are upset with the economy and terrorism. They are upset with the power-hungry DNC and RNC. There is a leaked email indicating the Clinton campaign wanted Trump or Cruz to win the Republican primary - no coverage of that in NYT...
Many woman have become leaders in the last 30 years. Mothers of young children, however, still have it tough. Try finding a part-time management job as an older new mom... There are tons of full-time job options for me, but I want to actually be a mom to my child until she is in school, but can't do that.
15
"Celinda Lake, a veteran Democratic pollster, said, “Democrats never win white women.”
I'd like to read more about the "why" behind this truism from the point of view of a Democrat. (I believe Kellyanne Conway has written about the other side.)
Why don't Democrats win white women when the Democratic Party's positions are much more favorable to them?
I'd like to read more about the "why" behind this truism from the point of view of a Democrat. (I believe Kellyanne Conway has written about the other side.)
Why don't Democrats win white women when the Democratic Party's positions are much more favorable to them?
2
Hillary unashamedly used sexism throughout her campaign and thankfully it was a spectacular backfire.
Instead of blindly voting for Hillary because she was a woman, many women voted for justice and morals. Women were one of the unrecognized, true heroes of this election.
Hillary discovered that female solidarity may be a myth, but their respect for ethics is real.
Instead of blindly voting for Hillary because she was a woman, many women voted for justice and morals. Women were one of the unrecognized, true heroes of this election.
Hillary discovered that female solidarity may be a myth, but their respect for ethics is real.
8
When a rust belt worker has his job shipped to Mexico. When he has to rely on food stamps. When his house is about to be foreclosed. When he and his family have no vacations. When they can't afford college for their kids.
Then him and his wife don't really care about women rights. Or gay rights. Transgender bathroom rights. Illegals' rights. Syrian refugee rights. And all the other made up PC rights the liberals love to debate about over a glass of Chianti.
Even though Trump is a billionaire, he gets the ordinary man and woman. Clinton does not. Biden did, but he didn't run.
Then him and his wife don't really care about women rights. Or gay rights. Transgender bathroom rights. Illegals' rights. Syrian refugee rights. And all the other made up PC rights the liberals love to debate about over a glass of Chianti.
Even though Trump is a billionaire, he gets the ordinary man and woman. Clinton does not. Biden did, but he didn't run.
35
You are aware aren't you, that these events reachedtheir height beginning nearly forty years ago? All you're arguing is that there are a lot of people in the Midwest who have been in comas for the last few decades and have awakened to discover there was a Black Guy in the White House and the factories closed down in 1985. Not the group from which I would be inclined to take instruction on good governance.
19
53%...That confirms there is no guarantee of intelligence in either gender
11
I'm a female 64 year old Sanders supporter who voted for Clinton because I had no choice. I certainly believed she would protect women's rights but beyond that, I didn't see a dime's worth of difference between her and most other corporate centric politicians. Being a woman was not a qualifier for me nor apparently a lot of women. What I can't wrap my head around is women ratifying the sexist, misogynist rape culture that's so corrosive to society and dangerous for their own daughters. When they voted from Trump, no matter what their reasons, they did just that. Being the victim of childhood rape by a relative, this is a sword through my heart.
28
"The gender gap in voting — 11 percentage points — was the largest in recent history," Doesn't that prove that women are sexist?; voting for Clinton for many reasons but primarily because of her sex. Condemning men with sexist motivation while allow women a free pass is a sexist perspective. This reminds me of how Obama received 99.9% of the black vote; while liberals insisted post election that there was no evident racist element to black's choice.
It's clear that all these analysis's drawn from liberal identity will never reveal the truth; but they will offer much needed solace to the weeping individuals that the loss was the fault of dumb white women - who should know better but don't because they are "uneducated, and misogamist white men - all 25 million of them - event the highly educated ones (like me) making sure the glass ceiling stays intact. What a pathetic joke.
It's clear that all these analysis's drawn from liberal identity will never reveal the truth; but they will offer much needed solace to the weeping individuals that the loss was the fault of dumb white women - who should know better but don't because they are "uneducated, and misogamist white men - all 25 million of them - event the highly educated ones (like me) making sure the glass ceiling stays intact. What a pathetic joke.
4
It would not surprise me at all if, with only women voting, Sarah Palin could not beat Hillary Clinton head to head.
2
It's really insulting to assume that I'd vote for a woman who's a crook, incompetent, who stole the nomination from an honorable man who would have been great for the country, just because I'm also a woman.
12
I voted for Hilary for one reason only: She was the most qualified. That she also happened to be female and would make history by putting thousands of glass ceiling chards in a politcal recycling bin was just icing on the cake. What Trump's official designation as U.S. President proves is the his claim of a rigged system was accurate. What else can you call a process that discards the vote of some two million people? The antiquity of the Electoral College is where the focus of inciting action to change should now be directed. And where it should remain until change actually occurs.
11
As a Bernie supporter, I held my nose and voted for Clinton but I recognize that the liberal idea that people will be able to focus on race, gender and sexuality when they can't put food in the table is absurd. The Democrats abandoned the working class and then the middle class. The middle class has been nullified by superficial progress in civil rights, all of which is likely to be dismantled after this recent election, thus showing us how hollow these victories were.
Let's be honest - if we don't have economic equality, we will not have racial or gender equality. It's that simple. Without economic power, we've got nothing. And right now, we've got nothing. And that's as much the fault of elite Democrats as it is the Republicans. If we want to demonize the white working class, we can, but it will get us nowhere because the truth of the matter is, if you aren't a member of the financial elite (which by the way, voted mostly for Trump - why doesn't the media talk about that?) then you are nothing but a cog in the wheel. Doesn't matter if you're a homophobic racist or a screaming liberal. If we don't wake up to this fact, we're doomed.
Let's be honest - if we don't have economic equality, we will not have racial or gender equality. It's that simple. Without economic power, we've got nothing. And right now, we've got nothing. And that's as much the fault of elite Democrats as it is the Republicans. If we want to demonize the white working class, we can, but it will get us nowhere because the truth of the matter is, if you aren't a member of the financial elite (which by the way, voted mostly for Trump - why doesn't the media talk about that?) then you are nothing but a cog in the wheel. Doesn't matter if you're a homophobic racist or a screaming liberal. If we don't wake up to this fact, we're doomed.
19
Please clarify, Ms. Chira: How could Hillary have won both married women and single women and still lost the female vote? Or are you talking about all women, whatever the race, not just white women?
2
It is an insult to most men for women to say that "they all talk like that when their are together", in regard to Trump's degrading and aggressive talk about sexual imposition on women. We don't "all" talk like that. I, for one, could assure my wife that I have never spoken like that for one simple reason: I don't think like that and I never have, not even during the hormonal overload of the teenage years. I can't say that some stupid thoughts don't float through my mind at times, but none of us is completely immune to what we sometimes hear and the attitudes of those with whom we come in contact.
Even in high school years, I thought that eventually having a wife as an equal, intelligent partner fully participating in life would be far better than the examples I had seen around me. You can't aspire to that and also have a completely base way of thinking about women in relation to your sexual needs. It is a complete contradiction.
I imagine there was a small cohort of men who were thrilled by the way Trump spoke about women. Men sometimes speak rudely in part because they reset the power women have over them and they want to appear manly to their peers. Some of Trump's appeal is presenting himself as a man above the restraints of other men, a Hugh Hefner of the tall building type. He has pushed the "super male" image since his "Studio 54" days in the 1980s. He brags about his ability to have women and some applaud, wishing they could be like him. Sad, but true.
Even in high school years, I thought that eventually having a wife as an equal, intelligent partner fully participating in life would be far better than the examples I had seen around me. You can't aspire to that and also have a completely base way of thinking about women in relation to your sexual needs. It is a complete contradiction.
I imagine there was a small cohort of men who were thrilled by the way Trump spoke about women. Men sometimes speak rudely in part because they reset the power women have over them and they want to appear manly to their peers. Some of Trump's appeal is presenting himself as a man above the restraints of other men, a Hugh Hefner of the tall building type. He has pushed the "super male" image since his "Studio 54" days in the 1980s. He brags about his ability to have women and some applaud, wishing they could be like him. Sad, but true.
12
So depressing. Think about how far we could go as women if we all gave each other passes and legs up just like the good old boys do. Sexism is pernicious and many women are just guilty of it as evidenced by who just became president. I am ashamed of these women and I hope soon enough they will be relegated to the dustbins of history and that their daughters rebell against them and advocate for equality. May Phyliss Shafly rot in hell.
9
That women did not vote for HRC does not bother me; of course women are more complex than (just) their gender. I would never vote for someone just because she was a woman. That women voted for DT does bother me - a lot. Initially, I have difficulty understanding why so many (white) women were able to ignore his repeated misogynist comments, nor his record of sexual assault and harassment. But then I think about the many women I have known (some of them self-described feminists) who have defended and befriended some of the most virulently misogynist men, and I begin to wonder if Freud was right about female masochism. Or perhaps too many of us remain susceptible to a romance narrative in which a former brute suddenly turns into Prince Charming, here to build walls to make us safe and great again.
10
As long as liberal women believe that they share a collective disadvantage based solely on gender then the myth will remain as a tool of identity propaganda. Most women are smarter than to swim in those waters.
6
I would like to posit a different concept. The Democrats did go too far with Obamacare. They, instead, acted timidly in passing a half a loaf measure that could only bring them trouble.
President Obama is an excellent politician and president, but he lacks some really essential skills. One is the ability to go for the kill. In my view, he was more protective of his self and public image than he has been about making a true difference in American life. My view is not charitable: I think he has had one foot out of the presidency even while working diligently and intelligently to succeed. He hasn't been willing to truly lay it on the line. He was looking ahead to his retirement from the presidency, for example, almost as soon as he was re-elected. He seems to care more about leaving office in good standing that he did about making deep changes.
The Democrats should have passed universal health care when they had majorities in both houses of Congress. They would have put something in place that could not be taken down and destroyed, as they did long ago with Social Security and Medicare for those over 65. As it was, Obama turned over the writing of Obamacare to the Congress and they botched the job.
Women, just like men, will act in their own self interest. Obama gave them too little to hang onto and Hillary, as a cause candidate, was too weak an argument. As long as the Democrats are timid and fearful of the right, they will lose, even though a majority supports them.
President Obama is an excellent politician and president, but he lacks some really essential skills. One is the ability to go for the kill. In my view, he was more protective of his self and public image than he has been about making a true difference in American life. My view is not charitable: I think he has had one foot out of the presidency even while working diligently and intelligently to succeed. He hasn't been willing to truly lay it on the line. He was looking ahead to his retirement from the presidency, for example, almost as soon as he was re-elected. He seems to care more about leaving office in good standing that he did about making deep changes.
The Democrats should have passed universal health care when they had majorities in both houses of Congress. They would have put something in place that could not be taken down and destroyed, as they did long ago with Social Security and Medicare for those over 65. As it was, Obama turned over the writing of Obamacare to the Congress and they botched the job.
Women, just like men, will act in their own self interest. Obama gave them too little to hang onto and Hillary, as a cause candidate, was too weak an argument. As long as the Democrats are timid and fearful of the right, they will lose, even though a majority supports them.
14
Women can not be fooled so easily, current feminism is nothing but a co-opted, corrupt pseudo-movement that only fight, promote and celebrate the elite; the most successful, rich and influential women.
These ultra rich women sold us the false idea that feminism and women rights only manifest themselves via their successes. Somehow the fact that Mrs. Clinton sits in the White House would mean that all women gained. As if African-Americans "gained" from the first black president, who treated their communities almost as bad and with same indifference as other presidents.
This fake feminism used as a tool to allow few privileged women to reach great levels of wealth and influence while neglecting many millions of women who are left behind.
Mrs. Clinton was the classic example. The "feminist" who sat on the board of Wallmart promoting her own wealth and career while her company exploits women, mostly low income, mostly Latinas and African-American, condemning them to lifetime of poverty.
Clinton also objected for years to raise the minimum wage, and when she did support it, it was ridiculously low. Thus keeping service workers, many of them are women, in poverty.
It is a perverted culture that hollowed out the real women rights movement and promoted the worship of few privileged elite women instead of addressing real women's struggle.
These ultra rich women sold us the false idea that feminism and women rights only manifest themselves via their successes. Somehow the fact that Mrs. Clinton sits in the White House would mean that all women gained. As if African-Americans "gained" from the first black president, who treated their communities almost as bad and with same indifference as other presidents.
This fake feminism used as a tool to allow few privileged women to reach great levels of wealth and influence while neglecting many millions of women who are left behind.
Mrs. Clinton was the classic example. The "feminist" who sat on the board of Wallmart promoting her own wealth and career while her company exploits women, mostly low income, mostly Latinas and African-American, condemning them to lifetime of poverty.
Clinton also objected for years to raise the minimum wage, and when she did support it, it was ridiculously low. Thus keeping service workers, many of them are women, in poverty.
It is a perverted culture that hollowed out the real women rights movement and promoted the worship of few privileged elite women instead of addressing real women's struggle.
13
If you leave out minority women, majority of white women voted Trump, irrespective of how you slice and dice it. The only exception is college educated women, but they preferred Clinton by only small margin. This is for the most misogynistic candidate in America's political history. Race trumps gender, everytime!
5
Isn't it a bit sexist to believe that women would vote for a woman because she's a woman?
5
This realization was long overdue. I long ago tired of the whole Helen Reddy schtick. This just in: women are individuals, with many different, and sometimes conflicting, loyalties.
1
"Demographics" is not reality. It's a lie, a strategy of divide and rule. Like all skillful liars, the Times and the other HRC supporters believed their own lies. Now they're shocked. Some else must be at fault. Women failed their sisters. The FBI disrupted the election (of course nothing to do with the candidate's misconduct). Typical antisocial thinking. Sociopaths have no introspection. It's always someone else.
5
No one should vote for a candidate solely based on gender.
But there's hypocrisy exposed in this article. One woman admitted voting against Secretary Clinton because Bill "had disgraced the White House."
Yet the woman voted for Trump, a notable abuser of women!
But there's hypocrisy exposed in this article. One woman admitted voting against Secretary Clinton because Bill "had disgraced the White House."
Yet the woman voted for Trump, a notable abuser of women!
11
Oh, I see. These same Trump-supporting women who think government is too intrusive have no problem with government intruding into the personal choices of all women and being responsible for bringing back jobs (which I could have sworn I've heard government-hating Republicans say for years is something that government is incapable of doing: creating jobs).
Again, all to be accomplished by a political party which hates government so much that....they continue to find it irresistible.
By that logic, they would apparently continue to attend a church whose pastor hated religion.
Their cognitive dissonance is deafening.
Again, all to be accomplished by a political party which hates government so much that....they continue to find it irresistible.
By that logic, they would apparently continue to attend a church whose pastor hated religion.
Their cognitive dissonance is deafening.
12
Thank you Susan Chira for your thoughtful and informed take on what happened at the polls. You've started what will be a critical and complex consideration of the layers of hope, fear, knowledge, allegiance, priorities, etc. that inform an utterly diverse female population as they cast a ballot, gather to protest, or celebrate the outcome of this election.
This election was not about the demographics, it was about what happens when the choices are poor. If you are traveling out of town & go into a bakery after a long bike ride and are famished, and the shelves are basically bare because it's late in the day, you eat whatever. It's calories, you need it, you don't have a great reason to choose. You use poor reasons like that one item is bigger than the other, or cheaper or does not remind you of something you once had that you did not like.
3
I'm not sorry Clinton lost. I'm very, very sorry that Trump won. Where does that leave me? Very discouraged. I voted for her because Trump was such a terrible choice, but, unfortunately, Hillary was the wrong woman. Too many Bush presidents, too many Clintons. Too many mistakes of all kinds. Too much power in too few families. Obama did a great job and many are proud of him. It was time for someone new. Well we surely got him. Let's keep our fingers crossed and hope but I'm not putting any money on the new guy!
12
There are many intelligent women who could have beaten Donald Trump. There were very few intelligent women Donald Trump could beat.
2
I can appreciate that many women (including my wife) want to see a female in the White House. But was Hillary the best choice? Hillary's career certainly got a jump start by being the wife of a President. There is a difference between getting rich by starting your own business as opposed to inheriting the wealth by divorce or widowhood. When a woman does finally get to the top, it will probably be the Thatcher way with no help from hubby. Complaints regarding Donald's bad behavior rang a bit hollow considering Hillary's willingness to remain married to a man with worst behavior. Finally, there is an elitist attitude by the Democratic Party towards many women. When Paula Jones sought the same love from female senators that Anita Hill still gets, she was told that she was not a "reliable witness." As Ms. Jones noted, just because she does not have a college degree or wear designer clothes, does not make her unreliable. The majority of those women voted Trump.
15
I cannot figure the logic of why females vote Republican, I simply cannot.....Abortion rights, etc., backward thinking, incredible
16
Until you ask them, you cannot be a force for good in this country. You cannot vilify them ("incredible") without simultaneously disrespecting them and perpetuating your state of ignorance. So go talk to them as if they were human beings and see what they say . . .
3
I understand the article's argument about women not necessarily voting for women. I get that. What I don't fully understand is the sheer level of distrust and hatred women (and men) feel for Hillary. Did she mess up with her email server? Yes! Could her speeches to Wall Street Bankers call into question her willingness to reign in their excesses? Absolutely! Could her links to the Clinton Foundation be cause for concern if elected President? Possibly. But what I overwhelmingly see is a women who dedicated her life to public service, who fought tirelessly and to the point of exhaustion for children, families and women's rights. Then I look at Donald Trump, who has done nothing noteworthy ever, in his whole 70 years alive, that was not beneficial for himself and his family. Wherever one looks in his businesses, shady practices come to light: bending tax codes to the point of being illegal, racially discriminating against prospective black tenants, donations to political supporters, using his foundation as a piggy bank to settle his law suits (and not making a single donation to it himself since 2008), public disparaging of business partners when he's had a falling out with them, setting up businesses whose sole purpose is to defraud customers (Trump University), and the list goes on. Yet, nothing stuck and women seem to trust that he'll somehow change and suddenly show integrity and care for them. Well, let's see.
12
Analyses based entirely on who voted are missing the story of the election, which is about who didn't vote. The Obama voters who came out in 2008 and 2012 didn't come out in the same numbers for Clinton. As in 2010, it is a story about failing to get the vote out. Before we make high sounding generalizations about the nature of class and gender, why don't we look at the nuts and bolts? This story would be written entirely the other way if 110 000 more people in Pa MI and Wi had voted D. Why is there no reporting about that? To start with, here's one of the great blunders of the Clinton campaign office. http://billypenn.com/2016/10/27/looks-like-the-clinton-campaign-wont-giv... Before we get instant sociology, a little empirical evidence, please! Reporters and op ed people are turning a big blind eye to turnout. Which is like missing the entire story. Thanks for continuing your record of misreporting this campaign from the beginning, NYT, and then bloviating over your factoids.
4
What you are really saying is that white women's loyalty to race "trumps" loyalty to gender.
Otherwise your thesis falls apart as there is no class distinction in the voting patterns of non white women.
But, i'm sure you know this. :)
Otherwise your thesis falls apart as there is no class distinction in the voting patterns of non white women.
But, i'm sure you know this. :)
3
How sad that you think women are really men who just happen to have vaginas. Your view is not shared by women wiser than you who know that we have shared interests that can and will be translated into power. I suggest you take a few minutes to look at a new Facebook group called Pantsuit. This group opened a,few weeks ago. It now has a membership of 3 million. You're missing the real story of this election: what happens when 49% of the country kicks 51% in the rear.
4
Susan, Susan, Susan...your opinion is why I stopped subscribing to the Times for a while until after the election. What is it about corporate journalism these days? You didn't have to start a discussion by creating an issue that isn't there or is irrelevant. You don't have to be female to be bamboozled by a con artist. There's plenty of "blame" to go around for the Electoral College result, even the newspaper you work for.
2
Since Election Day, I believe, this may be the second article on the white women vote. Wouldn't it be very helpful to learn more about the college-educated white male voters who insurmountably voted for Donald Trump and against Hillary Clinton? I think, the numerous, unending stories on the "working class" vote do not seem to be contributing to our understanding of each other.
4
When the GOP suggested women would vote for Sara Palin in solidarity with her sex, this paper wasted no time pointing out how ludicrous of an idea it was. It's sadly ironic that they can't seem to apply the same logic to their candidate.
19
Why on earth would you think that women would vote for a candidate because she's a woman? We didn't vote for Palin did we?
15
Here is what the polls and all these studies got wrong: People are so diverse, have such complicated and differing backgrounds, that any attempt to classify them will ultimately fail. The post election hand wringing clearly ignores this and Democratic attempts to group voters by education and then label those without college educations as some kind of unsophisticated rube that clearly didn't know what they were doing. Keep it up and the anger the American voter demonstrated last Tuesday will continue.
35
It is a sad day for the entire world. Many female voted for the groper king. Don't they have mother, daughter or sister? What message they are giving to the daughters? This is insane. They voted for a pathological liar bully with pride of groping women. November 8 was a dark day for all women in America. The same voters are subjected to sexual predators and abuse everyday. Is it a reverse psychology so that the other women (including sisters and daughters) gets abused same way as they are. That is perversion!
11
@Didi-
re: Your "Isn't looking past gender and focusing on the issues supposed to be a good thing?"
A MAIN 'issue' was that a woman was vying with a man to be president of the United States of America.
That was not being 'looked pas't by anyone as they "focused on the issues".
It is just that "those others" wanted it to be looked past.
re: Your "Isn't looking past gender and focusing on the issues supposed to be a good thing?"
A MAIN 'issue' was that a woman was vying with a man to be president of the United States of America.
That was not being 'looked pas't by anyone as they "focused on the issues".
It is just that "those others" wanted it to be looked past.
2
"No one wants to be called a racist"? Well they'd best get used to it.
7
Why should people vote in a bloc based on their genitalia? Racial blocs are understandable because they represent a tribal interest, whereas women are present in every tribe, ergo women and men should both vote together in the interests of their people.
So Susan is right, female solidarity is a myth.
Way too many women betrayed their country by voting for a leftist.
So Susan is right, female solidarity is a myth.
Way too many women betrayed their country by voting for a leftist.
4
I am shocked that so many African-American women voted for Hillary. Did they forget the racist approach she took in the 2008 primaries? I didn't and I will never forget nor forgive Bill's behavior in SC. He was not on the ballot in 2008 and 2016 but Hillary has always said he would have a prime role in her administration plus his private influence would be significant. I was a Bernie supporter who did not come around to Hillary's side. Needless to say, I did not vote for Hillary.
6
Diversity bright spots:
1. Got this from Chuck Todd. It's the first time a woman ran a successful and astounding presidential campaign to victory. Kelly! She took over a mess and won. Isn't that a great achievement for women. Or not because she was a Republican.
2. It's the first time that a Jew was a viable and almost successful candidate for the Presidency. That never happened before (VP but not president).
Diversity success only seems to count on the Democratic side. Colin Powell, Clarence Thomas - they don't count? Sarah Palin didn't count.
There is one thing that Donald accomplished that we must all agree on. We are spared probably from the presidential campaign season of Chelsea Clinton vs. George P. Bush - now that would be a reason to move to Canada.
1. Got this from Chuck Todd. It's the first time a woman ran a successful and astounding presidential campaign to victory. Kelly! She took over a mess and won. Isn't that a great achievement for women. Or not because she was a Republican.
2. It's the first time that a Jew was a viable and almost successful candidate for the Presidency. That never happened before (VP but not president).
Diversity success only seems to count on the Democratic side. Colin Powell, Clarence Thomas - they don't count? Sarah Palin didn't count.
There is one thing that Donald accomplished that we must all agree on. We are spared probably from the presidential campaign season of Chelsea Clinton vs. George P. Bush - now that would be a reason to move to Canada.
6
As in mentoring, women do not support other women. I don't know what this is about. In my experience, I felt the women who refused to support me actually didn't want to see me succeed. Maybe this is what it is all about.
7
If we look at Clinton alone, the idea that she should have become the commander in chief of the most powerful and influential nation in history because she is a woman is a statement that if left alone and reflected upon becomes grotesque. It is also a statement that is somewhat sexist in it's assumption that women then must vote based on "emotion" rather than intellect.
Now we can go on and argue that Clinton was the most qualified candidate which probably is a true statement if one is voting for a status quo or a continuation of President Obama's policies. My view is that Clinton's political career was one long presidential campaign and that everything she did therein was with a calculation on how it would affect her in that endeavor. From voting for Iraq, protecting wall street post recession, aggressively and with devastating consequences pushing for war in Libya rather than vote her conscience or let herself be guided by such she voted and acted as a shrewd politician. In this case it worked against her.
Now we can go on and argue that Clinton was the most qualified candidate which probably is a true statement if one is voting for a status quo or a continuation of President Obama's policies. My view is that Clinton's political career was one long presidential campaign and that everything she did therein was with a calculation on how it would affect her in that endeavor. From voting for Iraq, protecting wall street post recession, aggressively and with devastating consequences pushing for war in Libya rather than vote her conscience or let herself be guided by such she voted and acted as a shrewd politician. In this case it worked against her.
7
While Trump triumph is making waves across world with media, pundits and pollsters trying to give all kinds of excuses for democratic party demise, why one forgets that Hillary Clinton still had popular vote win. In true democratic sense red party still bagged majority. It's strange phenomenon in election politics that votes always don't give seats and power. I guess strong opposition is important for success of democracy. Democrats should quickly re-orient while Republicans move ahead with rule.
1
All of the politics aside, the man is a sexual predator. And he has said things about women - during the election (not just in his past) - that no other person running for election in the history of our country would have been able to say and then be elected. It takes a certain type of mind to understand that the threat he poses to women in our society now that he will be President is real.
14
All women are not white. Black women are united by their gender and color Black women have had the right to vote for less than half the time that white women have. The black led civil rights movement freed white women from legal discrimination in every phase of civil secular life. All women do not have husbands nor active involved baby daddy. Since 1964 black men and women have voted 90%+ for the Democratic Presidential candidate.
7
Women have always fought for the rights and welfare of others before their own. We will fight for animal rights before we fight for women's rights. Maybe it's evolutionary. Maybe we are hard-wired to protect others and sacrifice ourselves while competing for the alpha males to protect us. Whatever the reason, it's depressing.
8
I am a 70-year-old woman who voted for and even campaigned for Hillary but I was never truly enthusiastic about her. The problem was not her emails — many of us who've had to bring work home have done the like. I also regret seeing all the tumult over the DNC preferring her over Bernie; Hillary is a life-long Democrat and Bernie is a life-long Socialist who jumped on the Democratic bandwagon for purposes of this election. The two reasons I didn't like her campaign was that it was joyless and it was treated as requirement that history could only be made by having the first woman president to follow the first black president. Finally, I regret accepting the fable that Joe Biden didn't run because he was disheartened after his son's death. In my opinion, Joe would have easily defeated Trump and I'm angry that his candidacy was discouraged because Hillary was "entitled" to run this time.
16
This is fourth wave feminism and it is to be embraced.
It can be identified with strong confident talented women that have no need of quotas or set asides or special accommodation to be successful on their own terms.
It rejects the 'patriarchy' of older women telling them what they 'must' do and collectively pokes a stick in the eye of the cult and celebration of victimhood.
These women will rightly be the CEO's and leaders and yes - the future Presidents of the USA.
It can be identified with strong confident talented women that have no need of quotas or set asides or special accommodation to be successful on their own terms.
It rejects the 'patriarchy' of older women telling them what they 'must' do and collectively pokes a stick in the eye of the cult and celebration of victimhood.
These women will rightly be the CEO's and leaders and yes - the future Presidents of the USA.
16
"Fourth Wave Feminism"? Really? Electing an anti-science, anti-choice, misogynist bigot is some sort of "feminism" to you? Voting against your own self interests sounds to me like the height of deception and ignorance. And yes, a woman's self interest is vastly different from their male partner's, even if they are hetero, angry, middle class, non-degreed, and Christian.
4
Cycles are illusions of perspective. As in a great body of water, sociological waves come in repetitive cycles such that if one stands back sufficiently far, the ocean of values is flat overall.
You need to lose the uptight perspective to appreciate SteveRR. You also need to look up various waves of feminism.
The PC liberal just can't seem to get off his own pogo stick long enough to get himself in step with other people's views, if only for a moment. Hence you retreat to the power of name calling, which would be ok if you were accurate, but you are not. Your own all the standard liberal prejudices as your own. And I voted for Clinton.
The PC liberal just can't seem to get off his own pogo stick long enough to get himself in step with other people's views, if only for a moment. Hence you retreat to the power of name calling, which would be ok if you were accurate, but you are not. Your own all the standard liberal prejudices as your own. And I voted for Clinton.
The average income of a Republican voter is 70 K.
That's not poverty level.
That's not poverty level.
2
These "women" have held us all back, all along. Seems like Stockholm Syndrome, to me. They will be held responsible for all the women who will die as a result of their foolishness. Such women certainly do deserve to remain in second place.
2
I am an MD and I came up during earlier times when there was certainly no support in my field from men, but the women were even worse. Sad to say I don't see any great change in women backing other women. What I don't understand though is how ANY woman could vote for someone, in this case, a man, Donald Trump, who reviles and denigrates women in the most disgusting way. That's half the population he considers as worthwhile only if they are a "10" on his scale and then only for one thing.
Especially amazing since on the same kind of scale i.e. appearance, he is a zero.
Especially amazing since on the same kind of scale i.e. appearance, he is a zero.
10
How about Times editors enforce consistency of statistics contained in articles and columns. And what a mess of a column, what is the central point here, or any point? That female solidarity is a myth same as male solidarity is a myth. This is new information?
What the column should have addressed is how women vote against their own interest. That would be an important column, this is just another incoherent NYTs mess of an essay, pointless and non-informative.
Back to election statistics is the Times going to publish the big picture and represent the data in an accessible fashion where important context is called out?
What the column should have addressed is how women vote against their own interest. That would be an important column, this is just another incoherent NYTs mess of an essay, pointless and non-informative.
Back to election statistics is the Times going to publish the big picture and represent the data in an accessible fashion where important context is called out?
1
So the feminists push that women are equal to men and can do everything the same as a man. That there is no difference between the sexes. But then complain that women don't make choices based on the fact they are a woman?
Outside of places like Berkeley and New York, women are not offended about their husbands supporting the family. They are not offended about raising a family. They actually take pride in that "career". Get off your high horse and realize that woman really are people too and have the same concerns and don't just think with their woman parts, like you want them to.
Outside of places like Berkeley and New York, women are not offended about their husbands supporting the family. They are not offended about raising a family. They actually take pride in that "career". Get off your high horse and realize that woman really are people too and have the same concerns and don't just think with their woman parts, like you want them to.
6
I don't believe women should have voted for Hillary because she is a woman. I believe woman should have voted against Trump because not only is he a sexist who bragged about sexual assault. Women heard this in his own words and still voted for him.
4
Sigh. Yes, let's find a way to blame women for this. By all means. There is a study somewhere you can use to 'prove' it, as you show here. NYT please, please, stop publishing this kind of tripe.
I held my nose and voted for HRC because the other guy....... but please don't think you can call me a sexist because I thought her right of center politics wasn't for me, a woman. HRC represents what is wrong with much of politics and the bus that just ran over the country was full of Americans shouting about it. Not to say there weren't some awful human beings on board but sexism? Not even in the top five list of grievances.
I held my nose and voted for HRC because the other guy....... but please don't think you can call me a sexist because I thought her right of center politics wasn't for me, a woman. HRC represents what is wrong with much of politics and the bus that just ran over the country was full of Americans shouting about it. Not to say there weren't some awful human beings on board but sexism? Not even in the top five list of grievances.
9
Susan's appointment as the "gender" editor continues to reflect the fundamental problem: she is not a "gender editor" but an advocate for gender separation. I have read all her articles which are primarily opinion pieces, some labeled as news. Note that in this article she did not source a single male academic, analyst or interviewee. I read broadly and feel strongly about the need to eliminate or at least mitigate sexism in our society, but when a "gender" editor is in fact and in deed a "women's issues" editor, the biases drive me, and I am sure others, to simply devalue her perspective, and eventually ignore her. That harms the "agenda" the NYT is trying to set....so, my suggestion is replace Susan or have a critical conversation with her that highlights how her profound biases undermine her potential to impact sexism in our society. Ironically, it turns out, as conveyed in this article, people are people and gender may not ever have been the primary motivator of human experience....so--come on Susan--you can do better!
6
One thing that educated feminists sometimes seem to miss: If you are married to a CEO and can't hope for an equally good job yourself, you may easily relate to ambitious women. However, what if you are a working class woman married to a coal miner, a soldier, a police officer? Your husband is doing more dangerous work than you are and not necessarily being paid accordingly. To such people, feminism may look like the re-arrangement of upper class living arrangements -- a re-arrangement that -- however unintentionally -- had made it likely that fewer good jobs are available for working class men.
2
I keep wondering if the thousands of years women have been dominated, controlled, and protected (esp from death) by men, has almost biologically entered their psyche.
So much so, that to support a woman in such a high position as President, subconsciously goes against that biological thinking preference, for many women.
So much so, that to support a woman in such a high position as President, subconsciously goes against that biological thinking preference, for many women.
An historical note.
In the 1986 Democratic Senate primary Geraldine Ferraro and Elizabeth Holtzman went at each other fiercely and as a result Robert Abrams won the primary only to lose to Alphonse D'Amato in the general election.
In the 1986 Democratic Senate primary Geraldine Ferraro and Elizabeth Holtzman went at each other fiercely and as a result Robert Abrams won the primary only to lose to Alphonse D'Amato in the general election.
1
To me it unbelievable that so many women voted this vulgar man who up until now demeaned women, felt they were inferior, called many stupid and I could go on and on. How can these women think that Trump who is 70 years old, once in the White House, would change or use the excuse "he did not mean it"? He is set in his ways and will not now or ever change. I am an immigrant, I am a rape victim and had little when I arrived. I went back to college and university, earned a master degree and had a successful career and was proud of my achievement. Then comes this horrible man onto the political scene and puts women of all stripes and colors down and women tolerate this kind of dreadful behavior and vote for him is beyond believe. Lastly, Trump's behavior reaffirms in many men that this kind of behavior is totally acceptable. The genie is out of the box and can not be put back in unless all women unite, stand up and speak out against this kind of behavior in any man especially men in leadership positions.
6
Typical of liberals to view every category of voter as being identical. All women should support the same candidate, especially if that candidate happens to be a woman. All blacks should vote the same, especially if the nominee is black. And so on.
8
This article again makes it sound as if pretty much everyone who voted for Trump was "uneducated". I voted for Clinton but know many college educated men and women who didn't.
4
@Bos: Ur analogy with Nazi Germany is not well thought out. Trump is no fascist, nor an opponent of modernity,nor an anti Semite,and when he hears the words "French revolution,"is not inclined to reach for his gun(Goering's words).Nor should you labor under illusion that there were good Germans and bad Germans. Anti semitism had a long and inglorious history in Germany:Read Goldhagen's "Germany's willing executioners!"Americans r not sexist, and would have been willing to vote for a woman president, just not HRC.Someone like Thatcher, British p.m.who re established G.B.'s hegemony in the Falklands, and in so doing put an end to the last of the Argentinian juntas responsible for so many killings of its own citizens, would have gotten the votes of women who ultimately cast ballots for DT, but HRC is no Thatcher.Coincidentally,met Leopoldo Galtieri, last of junta generals when he was walking his dog one night in Palermo in 2002.Also interviewed by phone his predecessor. Videla.But to return to your point, HRC, through her smugness, her disdain for victims of globalization, lack of empathy, and solidarity with other 1 percenters just turned people off.Maybe if she had bought her clothes at Robert Hall, and spent time ministering to those in perilous housing projects, she might have saved the furniture from the fire. But such a common sense idea never occurred to her or her staff who proved to be just as politically obtuse as the candidate.
Turns out that women aren't quite as gullible and simple as the HRC campaign thought.
Being Cocky and self entitled.........that's what lost her the election.
No tears libs, just go away for four years and let us drive.
Being Cocky and self entitled.........that's what lost her the election.
No tears libs, just go away for four years and let us drive.
3
...off a cliff?
Yeah, really looking forward to that.
Yeah, really looking forward to that.
4
Don't forget that many of those women are white. And they hate minorities like me just as much as their husbands do. So when Trump appeals to that hate, the pull is too much to ignore.
11
Maybe they listened to their husbands. Maybe the believed the lies in their Facebook bubble. Maybe they believe as they have been taught for centuries that women should be subservient to men. I actually had that conversation with an older woman. Some women I know actually believe the terrible things trump said were all planted by the Hillary campaign since she is that crooked. That the media distorted what he said in the debates. These are women with college and advanced degrees. Or, as the author suggests, once an R always an R, and deny anything bad can be possible because of the R.
5
If the Republicans had nominated Sarah Palin instead of Donald Trump, the president-elect today would be a woman.
5
Women, especially white women, have always been more resentful of anyone that they think might take anything away from them. Especially stay at home Moms get their notions of what is threatening them from their husbands and boyfriends. Then they add anything that might threaten their hold on their man. That is a reason white women in particular dislike Gays. They do not want to compete with anyone else for their man. I have seen this happen over and over again and often wondered why the woman was more aggressive in dismissing Gay people than their husbands. Once they feel the danger dissipate, when their children have grown and they and their husband are middle-aged they allow themselves to be more considerate of others. This happens with racial considerations and religious considerations. The party and their economic stature in most cases is determined by their husband's stature and affiliations. Rather than risk losing their man, they will be a lioness protecting their cub even if it is against their own best interests, because their husband said so. I have seen that play out in my own family up close and personal, especially with those living in South Carolina, probably one of the most inhospitable states toward poor women and or women strivers. Despite all the feminist rhetoric, for less educated and poor women, you have to win over their man. Oftentimes, if they have lost their man, the substitute is the Party Leader or Church Leader, usually a man, in their community.
1
Hillary is not a minority, nor is she poor or uneducated. Yet she has stayed by a man whose behavior is as bad as Trump. Laura Bush, facing a similar problem, told her husband to shape up or ship out. Maybe she should run for President.
1
Do you actually know any white women or women who made the choice to stay home and raise their children? Because this is the most bigoted string of generalizations and mischarcterizations I've read all day.
I'm an old white woman and I don't know a single woman my age who doesn't have close, cherished gay and lesbian friends. In fact, in the dark "boys in the band days" before the liberation movement, women were often staunch allies and if anything, they helped usher in the era of compassion, acceptance and love for gay people.
Don't trash me with your generalizations. Women my age think for themselves.
I'm an old white woman and I don't know a single woman my age who doesn't have close, cherished gay and lesbian friends. In fact, in the dark "boys in the band days" before the liberation movement, women were often staunch allies and if anything, they helped usher in the era of compassion, acceptance and love for gay people.
Don't trash me with your generalizations. Women my age think for themselves.
3
Funny, I don't recall the NYT being giddy about the prospect of the first woman Vice President when Sarah Palin was on the ticket.
16
maybe because she's an idiot
5
Because Sarah Palin was a dim bulb.
6
Yes, we are members of that fortunate breed who started with nothing and made it into something. Its funny. We thought we were doing everything right by jumping out of bed before the sun and working all day long everyday. My first job was as a dishwasher. We built a life one brick at a time.
My daughter just graduated from college. One class made her feel bad and ashamed. She was only 19 when she took a diversity class as an elective. Every debate, documentary film or class discussion singled out people like her because of the color of their hair or eyes. She left almost every meeting of her class feeling disheartened. At some point during the week she would call her mother to talk about it. She also left the class feeling out of step with the shape and direction of where political correctness has taken us in this country. Just because she holds certain views about personal responsibility she's a bad person? As a parent you spend an inordinate amount of time worrying about your kids and their happiness. Is that wrong?
But she's young and she's trying to figure out the world and stand on her own two feet. She's a feminist. I haven't asked her but I don't think she looked at her vote as a referendum on the value or potential of women. Maybe she did but I think it bothered her that she was slapped down often and the Clintons never seemed to accept mistakes. Maybe she was just tired of being told how to think.
My daughter just graduated from college. One class made her feel bad and ashamed. She was only 19 when she took a diversity class as an elective. Every debate, documentary film or class discussion singled out people like her because of the color of their hair or eyes. She left almost every meeting of her class feeling disheartened. At some point during the week she would call her mother to talk about it. She also left the class feeling out of step with the shape and direction of where political correctness has taken us in this country. Just because she holds certain views about personal responsibility she's a bad person? As a parent you spend an inordinate amount of time worrying about your kids and their happiness. Is that wrong?
But she's young and she's trying to figure out the world and stand on her own two feet. She's a feminist. I haven't asked her but I don't think she looked at her vote as a referendum on the value or potential of women. Maybe she did but I think it bothered her that she was slapped down often and the Clintons never seemed to accept mistakes. Maybe she was just tired of being told how to think.
8
I am deeply disappointed that any woman at all voted for Trump. He talked about women like they were 2nd class citizens. And evidence indicates many, many women do not care about that at all.
So be it. If women are not going to step-up and battle for self-respect, it is time they stop thinking they deserve it.
And, it follows, going forward I should not view women as anything other than the 2nd class citizenry they seem most amenable to: To date, I have been a staunch supporter of a woman's right to choose, but I find myself thinking now that maybe women are not up to it ... that as 2nd class citizens, they cannot be trusted with nor should they remain fully vested in the rights of self-determination. Instead, they should be rosy and content to have outstanding, dignified, respectful, and only-occasionally-adulterous white males such as Trump and Giuliani and Gingrich manage the critical life decisions for them.
The vote? Owning property? It certainly would make Life-in-America a simpler thing to eliminate those rights for women. And based on Tuesday, should we be surprised a significant number of women would find ample ways to rationalize why ceding those guarantees really is not important either?
So be it. If women are not going to step-up and battle for self-respect, it is time they stop thinking they deserve it.
And, it follows, going forward I should not view women as anything other than the 2nd class citizenry they seem most amenable to: To date, I have been a staunch supporter of a woman's right to choose, but I find myself thinking now that maybe women are not up to it ... that as 2nd class citizens, they cannot be trusted with nor should they remain fully vested in the rights of self-determination. Instead, they should be rosy and content to have outstanding, dignified, respectful, and only-occasionally-adulterous white males such as Trump and Giuliani and Gingrich manage the critical life decisions for them.
The vote? Owning property? It certainly would make Life-in-America a simpler thing to eliminate those rights for women. And based on Tuesday, should we be surprised a significant number of women would find ample ways to rationalize why ceding those guarantees really is not important either?
7
And maybe those of us who still have plenty of self-respect and do NOT consider ourselves any less than a man, will just stop having sex with men altogether if that's what you really think about us. It might solve a lot of problems and we won't have to worry about the Supremes taking away our rights to our own bodies! Sounds like you want to start a "war with women." Truly, we have a lot more power than you think!
2
Wait, those white women were only half of a half of a half. Nearly 50% of Americans didn't vote. That means about 25% of the population voted for Trump and if that half were women now we are down to 12.5 %. I could keep going. Come on, so don't even try to generalize.
3
So those women who chose not to vote at all also chose not to vote for a woman. That is the most telling statistic of all.
2
Women, as do men, vote for the candidate who they feel will best lead the entire nation into the future. To insinuate as Ms. Albright did that women must vote for female candidates even if they are inferior, insults the female electorate.
Mrs. Clinton lost the election not 'a woman".
Mrs. Clinton lost the election not 'a woman".
24
No, women tend to vote looking towards their Unit Identity first. In other words; their family. Hence the adverts the GOP prefers to use that scare soccer-moms.
Women usually align to the family unit, so they see their men out of work, so they prefer the "messiah" (standard GOP candidates self-assessment) who will magically create said jobs. Women see their children at risk (most times its imaginary) so they vote for the brown-shirted law and order guys.
Women tend to put their own needs and freedoms (key term, freedoms) in the trunk of the family van, moving the needs and desires of the Family Unit into the front seats. Women more often will vote as their husbands do, out of their need to initiate absolute cohesion within the Unit.
Then when you add in gender bias, towards male leaders, women will (and this bias has been thoroughly tested over and over) lean to a male leader over a female one. Despite the general female rhetoric that "when you want a job done right, you call a female." Women (well over 50%) dont actually believe this when it comes to leadership roles.
Personally, when I heard all the talk about how Trump totally lost the white (mostly educated) vote I knew the "experts" had miss-fired. Knew it. Because I see and listen to how everyday women really discuss politics, and national elections. And its rarely about general woman's rights, but more about how to protect their family-units - even when they are pre-family.
Trump offered that plate of pablum
Women usually align to the family unit, so they see their men out of work, so they prefer the "messiah" (standard GOP candidates self-assessment) who will magically create said jobs. Women see their children at risk (most times its imaginary) so they vote for the brown-shirted law and order guys.
Women tend to put their own needs and freedoms (key term, freedoms) in the trunk of the family van, moving the needs and desires of the Family Unit into the front seats. Women more often will vote as their husbands do, out of their need to initiate absolute cohesion within the Unit.
Then when you add in gender bias, towards male leaders, women will (and this bias has been thoroughly tested over and over) lean to a male leader over a female one. Despite the general female rhetoric that "when you want a job done right, you call a female." Women (well over 50%) dont actually believe this when it comes to leadership roles.
Personally, when I heard all the talk about how Trump totally lost the white (mostly educated) vote I knew the "experts" had miss-fired. Knew it. Because I see and listen to how everyday women really discuss politics, and national elections. And its rarely about general woman's rights, but more about how to protect their family-units - even when they are pre-family.
Trump offered that plate of pablum
6
True, but she didn't actually lose the election. She lost the Electoral College. Big difference. It is entirely possible that millions of people stay home in states like Texas, Louisiana, Mississippi and many more because they know their votes will be cancelled out by the majority in those states. Let's wait until the true final vote count is available. Besides, even with the early count, 52% of the nation said they did not want Trump as their president, just as 60% or more said the same thing during about half of the Republican primaries. We have a messed up, confused system and, in the aftermath of the election, we have turned into self examination rather than looking to the root of the problem.
2
Well, there ya go...straight to that special place in hell for 55% of independent suburban woman. Could Hillary, Albright, and the DNC be more condescending? Careful now, insult and patronize these smart cookies enough, and they might not buy you're program
18
The push to make this a division on gender is off-base.
The New York Times today said that many of the protesters on the streets this week are people who didn't vote or who voted for a 3rd party candidate.
These people could have stopped Trump - but they gave up their vote in a self-defeating protest because they wanted utopia, and it wasn't on the ballot. Now they have put *all* of the services and freedoms that they, their families and their communities depend on in jeopardy - instead of voting for Clinton to stop Trump.
Trump's vote volume was about the same as McCain's and Romney's losses. The people who stayed home or voted for "what's Aleppo" failed themselves and they failed our country. The time to protest the DNC'S treatment of Sanders was after the election - with democratic leaders in place. Because permanent changes like the Supreme Court are just that, permanent.
For the 3rd party voters and those who stayed home with noses in the air - you deserve what happens next. The rest of us - the people who voted responsibly to keep a Trump far away from the White House - do not.
The New York Times today said that many of the protesters on the streets this week are people who didn't vote or who voted for a 3rd party candidate.
These people could have stopped Trump - but they gave up their vote in a self-defeating protest because they wanted utopia, and it wasn't on the ballot. Now they have put *all* of the services and freedoms that they, their families and their communities depend on in jeopardy - instead of voting for Clinton to stop Trump.
Trump's vote volume was about the same as McCain's and Romney's losses. The people who stayed home or voted for "what's Aleppo" failed themselves and they failed our country. The time to protest the DNC'S treatment of Sanders was after the election - with democratic leaders in place. Because permanent changes like the Supreme Court are just that, permanent.
For the 3rd party voters and those who stayed home with noses in the air - you deserve what happens next. The rest of us - the people who voted responsibly to keep a Trump far away from the White House - do not.
47
Well...that's not a way to create unity, is it?
2
I heartbreakingly agree, Commonsense. The damage to SCOTUS will be generational. No chance to be rid of the dangerous $$ brought about from Citizens United, and good bye to decency and tolerance.
2
I wrote in Bernie. You apparently voted for the woman who stole the nomination from him by election fraud and with the aid of the corrupt DNC and corrupt mainstream media. And you expected us to fall in line behind your corrupt candidate.
No way. That would have enshrined the corruption for decades. Now we have a chance to rebuild the Democratic party out of the ashes, and elect honest candidates who are actually liberals and not DINOs.
No way. That would have enshrined the corruption for decades. Now we have a chance to rebuild the Democratic party out of the ashes, and elect honest candidates who are actually liberals and not DINOs.
3
Look, do you really think that many women are so stupid that they voted with their genitals? Stop talking about this absurdity and get over the fact that the Democratic tactic of victim hood and identity politics is dead and done with. I voted for Hillary, but not because I'm a woman and she is one. It's about time that liberals use a different strategy and not one where millions of people are alienated and belittled at the expense of toilets for the sexually confused for God's sake! Some liberals only like to speak up for the really really alienated while missing completely the elephant in the room.
49
Sara...so you dont see this victim hood and identity politics coming from the GOP? Isn't it playing the victim when white males cry that their jobs have been stolen (which they don't own, the jobs) and that "their culture" is being run-over and trampled? That they wish for job protections, coming from a government they've been vilifying for a few decades now. That they scream about the Nanny state the Dems hope to set-up, while demanding the gov't - the President specifically - create jobs solely for them to occupy?
This election was not about bathroom usage - it was for many of us, about equality for all peoples, and simple compassion (sympathy?) when such a reaction is the most difficult one to conjure! This knee-jerk reaction to reject peoples differences first, and deem them lesser beings (sexually confused?really?) is truly what makes America a lesser nation.
Thats what this election was about for me. Moving towards a first reaction of we're all citizens, lets figure this out from that perspective, not from the sidelines of name-calling, marginalizing, and sanctioned racial hostilities.
To the topic. I will never understand how women, in a general sense, do not all agree that they have a right to make their own moral decisions (abortion, birth-control) without interference from a patriarchal gov't or society. That no matter your POV (abortion,etc) you are not in near total lock-step that those personal, moral decisions are for the Individual female to make. Period.
This election was not about bathroom usage - it was for many of us, about equality for all peoples, and simple compassion (sympathy?) when such a reaction is the most difficult one to conjure! This knee-jerk reaction to reject peoples differences first, and deem them lesser beings (sexually confused?really?) is truly what makes America a lesser nation.
Thats what this election was about for me. Moving towards a first reaction of we're all citizens, lets figure this out from that perspective, not from the sidelines of name-calling, marginalizing, and sanctioned racial hostilities.
To the topic. I will never understand how women, in a general sense, do not all agree that they have a right to make their own moral decisions (abortion, birth-control) without interference from a patriarchal gov't or society. That no matter your POV (abortion,etc) you are not in near total lock-step that those personal, moral decisions are for the Individual female to make. Period.
3
This strikes a chord, imperfectly. The stab is correctly directed toward the heart of the matter, but leaves open the question of how the PC liberal mindset becomes so hardened to such narrow slivers of otherwise reasonable ideas. More people will be up arms over a gorilla being shot or one person in jail than a vast military industry or retrograde religion. How the PC side picks and chooses it's fights remains a bit of a mystery. It's certainly not pure logic.
3
Re: "Democratic tactic of victim hood"
^ So Trump didn't win by stoking white male identity politics and 'victim-hood'?
I'm sure you feel good about winning - but then why lie about the "elephant in the room"?
^ So Trump didn't win by stoking white male identity politics and 'victim-hood'?
I'm sure you feel good about winning - but then why lie about the "elephant in the room"?
2
Personally, I think it's a good thing people vote for something more relevant than race or gender. Yeah, a lot of these women who voted for Trump may have been shooting themselves in the foot this time around. But when Ivanka Trump starts running for office in a few years, will we hear the same cries from the same quarters for female solidarity?
35
This was not about who women voted for. It was about about whom they didn't vote against! I do not see how any woman could have betrayed herself and her kind by voting for such a vulgar, misogynistic, narcissistic, xenophobic, unqualified and unprepared excuse for a man. That is what makes so many of us, women and men, sad.
2
Where was the talk about female solidarity or the lack thereof and unshattered glass ceilings in 2008 when the democrats chose Obama over Hillary in the democratic primary?
Presumably, most voters choose the candidate who is more aligned with their interests and the positions that are most important to them, and not the gender. Evidently Hillary's positions did not sufficiently align with those of the majority of female voters.
You could ask the question in reverse, if Hillary wanted to win, why was she not aligned with the positions of the majority of female voters? Could it not be that the majority of women (and men) rejected her because, among other things, she was the ultimate establishment, open borders and globalist candidate? And the voters did not want that.
Presumably, most voters choose the candidate who is more aligned with their interests and the positions that are most important to them, and not the gender. Evidently Hillary's positions did not sufficiently align with those of the majority of female voters.
You could ask the question in reverse, if Hillary wanted to win, why was she not aligned with the positions of the majority of female voters? Could it not be that the majority of women (and men) rejected her because, among other things, she was the ultimate establishment, open borders and globalist candidate? And the voters did not want that.
38
The Groper-In-Chief could not have been more thrilled than when he violated the dignity of American democracy by groping poorly educated, gullible, angry white women for their votes to push himself and America over the abusive Electoral College cliff of Grand Old Patriarchal tyranny.
RIP, United States of America....Donald Trump's biggest predator assault victim to date.
RIP, United States of America....Donald Trump's biggest predator assault victim to date.
56
RIP, United States? Really? The snowflakes are melting and it reminds of spring.
I for one am happy that many women chose to vote with their mind instead of their gender. I'm proud that they would not accept this particular woman and the baggage that she brings with her.
I for one am happy that many women chose to vote with their mind instead of their gender. I'm proud that they would not accept this particular woman and the baggage that she brings with her.
6
"the internet was flooded with plaintive and angry accusations of betrayal from African-Americans and Latinas who noted that they had voted for Mrs. Clinton by large majorities"
Over 30% of Hispanics voted for someone we kept being told treated them the way the KKK treated Jews. If Hispanics and blacks had gone to the polls at the same numbers they had for Obama and voted for Clinton at the same rate they'd voted for Obama (they didn't) she would be president right now.
White women (and men) voted in higher numbers for a black man (Obama) then they did for a white woman (Clinton). It's pretty rich telling white women their failure to vote for a white woman is anti-black or Hispanic racism. I don't see them considering their failure to come out for Clinton to be sexism. This spite towards white women has been open for sometime in the SJ movement. It is toxic and no doubt will soon be extended to another group that was previously considered oppressed. Over the last few years I have come to understand the phrase "the left eats it's own" from witnessing the toxic far left on social media. The constant rage and dumping of ones emotional baggage on innocent people is a norm on the left. It is not unlike the extreme far right and their rage at innocent people for being black or Jewish. If the left doesn't do more to distance themselves from these disturbed and opportunistic people they will lose even more clout.
Over 30% of Hispanics voted for someone we kept being told treated them the way the KKK treated Jews. If Hispanics and blacks had gone to the polls at the same numbers they had for Obama and voted for Clinton at the same rate they'd voted for Obama (they didn't) she would be president right now.
White women (and men) voted in higher numbers for a black man (Obama) then they did for a white woman (Clinton). It's pretty rich telling white women their failure to vote for a white woman is anti-black or Hispanic racism. I don't see them considering their failure to come out for Clinton to be sexism. This spite towards white women has been open for sometime in the SJ movement. It is toxic and no doubt will soon be extended to another group that was previously considered oppressed. Over the last few years I have come to understand the phrase "the left eats it's own" from witnessing the toxic far left on social media. The constant rage and dumping of ones emotional baggage on innocent people is a norm on the left. It is not unlike the extreme far right and their rage at innocent people for being black or Jewish. If the left doesn't do more to distance themselves from these disturbed and opportunistic people they will lose even more clout.
5
As a (liberal, left-of-center Democratic) woman (and granddghter, daughter, sister, sister-in-law, mother, niece, aunt, cousin and friend of women) I find the very idea, the consideration or proposal, that women would vote for a woman out of "sisterhood loyalty" laughable and naive - a leftover 70s exaggeration as well as yet one more sign of how far we've gone with the dreaded "identity politics" that is so disconnected from real people's real lives.
Neither I nor any woman in my life had ever needed political scientists to explain the very obvious: women, as individual human begins, vote in the complex ways that every human being does, sometimes, as now, when it is against their own interests "as women" (i.e. abortion rights, childcare funding, maternity leave etc). This is because a person's first loyalty is to their group - call it class or anything else. British women did not vote for Margaret Thatcher or German women for Angela Merkel because they were women - they simply voted.
Sexism certainly played a role in this awful election, but it had nothing to do with how American white women voted.
Neither I nor any woman in my life had ever needed political scientists to explain the very obvious: women, as individual human begins, vote in the complex ways that every human being does, sometimes, as now, when it is against their own interests "as women" (i.e. abortion rights, childcare funding, maternity leave etc). This is because a person's first loyalty is to their group - call it class or anything else. British women did not vote for Margaret Thatcher or German women for Angela Merkel because they were women - they simply voted.
Sexism certainly played a role in this awful election, but it had nothing to do with how American white women voted.
3
So 70 countries have had female heads of state but not America. Despite obvious bias against female presidents among many Americans, the statistical problem is that not enough women run for higher office in the US, hence lower chance of females winning.
Also, not enough men from varied backgrounds run for higher office lowering the chance of a superbly qualified male president.
A number of outspoken pundits including Michael Moore have pointed out that America has never actually achieved it's avowed democratic goals. America was one of the later countries to approve women voting, abolish slavery, approve abortion, and accept women in jobs other than nursing, teaching, and secretaries.
I disagree with Michael in that I don't believe America ever actually had that many progressive goals from the revolution against England. America has never been a liberal, open minded culture and started out run by elite, wealthy men up to today's 1% also run by elite wealthy men.
America started out rebelling against economic exploitation by England, retained constitutionally protected slavery for economic reasons, and has just elected another president welcomed by Wall Street's barely concealed glee. Trump's primary supporters were white males who felt their own economic and racial privilege slipping away with the intrusion of more immigrants taking their jobs.
The truth is that America has never been a friendly place for women and minorities at any level!
Also, not enough men from varied backgrounds run for higher office lowering the chance of a superbly qualified male president.
A number of outspoken pundits including Michael Moore have pointed out that America has never actually achieved it's avowed democratic goals. America was one of the later countries to approve women voting, abolish slavery, approve abortion, and accept women in jobs other than nursing, teaching, and secretaries.
I disagree with Michael in that I don't believe America ever actually had that many progressive goals from the revolution against England. America has never been a liberal, open minded culture and started out run by elite, wealthy men up to today's 1% also run by elite wealthy men.
America started out rebelling against economic exploitation by England, retained constitutionally protected slavery for economic reasons, and has just elected another president welcomed by Wall Street's barely concealed glee. Trump's primary supporters were white males who felt their own economic and racial privilege slipping away with the intrusion of more immigrants taking their jobs.
The truth is that America has never been a friendly place for women and minorities at any level!
4
Hillary reminded me all to much, fairly or not, of my fellow women business student at Harvard in the late 1970's. Despite how few we were, in my experience, there was little support for one another. In fact, it seemed there was extra animosity as women seemed to view each other as their main competition. This same dynamic had been borne out as an woman engineering student.
One explanation I offer is that to get to this highly coveted place, women had had to be extra tough and competitive, in many instances downright cut-throat. While I didn't feel I fell in that category, I did see Hillary that way, fully buying, for example, the story that Hillary had been part of the plan to grossly disparage the women whom Bill had had affairs with.
Perhaps other women sensed this from Hillary and therefore did not, in turn, feel a need to stand in solidarity with her, in particular.
One explanation I offer is that to get to this highly coveted place, women had had to be extra tough and competitive, in many instances downright cut-throat. While I didn't feel I fell in that category, I did see Hillary that way, fully buying, for example, the story that Hillary had been part of the plan to grossly disparage the women whom Bill had had affairs with.
Perhaps other women sensed this from Hillary and therefore did not, in turn, feel a need to stand in solidarity with her, in particular.
5
I would add to this that solidarity in any group is a myth. I just read in my local paper that Cincinnati ex mayor Kenneth Blackwell has been appointed by Trump to a major post. Blackwell is an outspoken conservative and black. Clinton certainly did not get enough of the black vote nor of the Latino vote. Democrats must stop the politics of division. I voted for Hillary because on a personal level Trump disgusts me, but unfortunately I found in her no spark of imagination or of new thought. It was a vote of desperation more than anything. Sorry, but the hysteria coming from special interest groups is getting old and exactly the type of hyperbolic drivel that led many to support Trump. It's everybody's country and everybody's president. Young people should have screamed louder in the streets way back in the primaries. Now we have to swallow our bitter pill.
1
Sara--As the previous commenter pointed out, there are women who are sexists, and people of color who are racists. Both versions of a human being are self-loathing.
1
So, these women drank the poisoned Kool Aid. They'll be manipulated again and again.
Glad I don't have to explain the coming carnage to any child.
Glad I don't have to explain the coming carnage to any child.
5
News flash there are women just as racists and sexists as some men. Who knew? And why is it that no one wants to be called a racist, but being called a sexist, the response is who cares? Women have a long way to go still...
5
When people study the 2016 election in years to come, surely one of the findings will be that America's opinionators were wrong about what was at stake. This piece is a case in point.
How could anyone write about women's voting patterns in 2016 without once mentioning reproductive choice?
Any thinking person will know that the Republican party wants to make abortion illegal. Banning abortion has been a key Republican objective since Roe v. Wade.
We now have a Republican president who has threatened to punish women who obtain abortions. While Trump apologists might try to walk back such comments as loose talk, there is no denying that one criterion for selecting a replacement for Antonin Scalia will be the likelihood that he or she will vote to overturn Roe v. Wade.
Furthermore, with Congress now firmly under Republican control, can there be any doubt that we'll see federal legislation that makes it harder for women to have abortions?
It's one thing when women take a boys-will-be-boys attitude towards Trump's sexual braggadocio, but something altogether more ominous to be a party to one's own subjugation in the area of reproductive freedom.
The college-educated women who voted for Mrs. Clinton will very likely be able to jet off to countries where they can obtain safe and legal abortions. It's the working-class women who will find their bodies hijacked by unwanted pregnancies in decades to come.
Let's see if they still saying "whatever" after that.
How could anyone write about women's voting patterns in 2016 without once mentioning reproductive choice?
Any thinking person will know that the Republican party wants to make abortion illegal. Banning abortion has been a key Republican objective since Roe v. Wade.
We now have a Republican president who has threatened to punish women who obtain abortions. While Trump apologists might try to walk back such comments as loose talk, there is no denying that one criterion for selecting a replacement for Antonin Scalia will be the likelihood that he or she will vote to overturn Roe v. Wade.
Furthermore, with Congress now firmly under Republican control, can there be any doubt that we'll see federal legislation that makes it harder for women to have abortions?
It's one thing when women take a boys-will-be-boys attitude towards Trump's sexual braggadocio, but something altogether more ominous to be a party to one's own subjugation in the area of reproductive freedom.
The college-educated women who voted for Mrs. Clinton will very likely be able to jet off to countries where they can obtain safe and legal abortions. It's the working-class women who will find their bodies hijacked by unwanted pregnancies in decades to come.
Let's see if they still saying "whatever" after that.
30
"We now have a Republican president who has threatened to punish women who obtain abortions. While Trump apologists might try to walk back such comments as loose talk"
There is nothing to walk back. Go back, watch the video. Chris Mathews specifically said in a HYPOTHETICAL situation where abortion was outlawed should woman who receive an abortion be punished . Trump tried very hard to not the answer the question because he knew it was a trap. But he eventually he did answer the question, and the narrative was set in stone as seen in your response. It took Chris Mathews 5 minutes to get Trump to say that people who break the law would be held accountable in a HYPOTHETICAL scenario. What else was he supposed to say? Would Hillary have said that if the law says you can't do something that she would make special pardons for those people? No president can say that. Wolf Blitzer set the same exact trap about health care for Ron Paul in 2012 Republican Primaries and that set the narrative that Ron Paul thought people should die.
Go back, watch the video. Listen to the question. Don't be fooled by memes and sound bites you hear on the Internet and TV.
There is nothing to walk back. Go back, watch the video. Chris Mathews specifically said in a HYPOTHETICAL situation where abortion was outlawed should woman who receive an abortion be punished . Trump tried very hard to not the answer the question because he knew it was a trap. But he eventually he did answer the question, and the narrative was set in stone as seen in your response. It took Chris Mathews 5 minutes to get Trump to say that people who break the law would be held accountable in a HYPOTHETICAL scenario. What else was he supposed to say? Would Hillary have said that if the law says you can't do something that she would make special pardons for those people? No president can say that. Wolf Blitzer set the same exact trap about health care for Ron Paul in 2012 Republican Primaries and that set the narrative that Ron Paul thought people should die.
Go back, watch the video. Listen to the question. Don't be fooled by memes and sound bites you hear on the Internet and TV.
1
Apparently "sisterhood" is not dispositive and schadenfreude is alive and well among white Conservative women, who overwhelmingly supported a serial misogynist Donald Trump, rather than the most politically accomplished woman in American history.
25
Don--I've noticed that clear thinking, intelligent, kind, compassionate, civically responsible women tend to get along with each other better than the strident, back-stabbing, me-first women, who love a guy like Trump. For them, it was never about the overall good of the country. You can't persuade women like that. They will never belong to the club of women who care about things other than themselves.
4
Being the underdog doesn't justify sexism. (Or racism.) Stop insulting me by demanding that I vote for a woman because I'm a woman. It's hypocritical to suggest we are so different from men that gender would justify a vote. Should all men vote for a man? You can't have it both ways. I don't care what gender or color the president is. I want the one who is most competent. I voted for Sanders and then Stein.
7
"I voted for Sanders and then Stein." Thanks to voters like this, and those progressives who pouted at home on election night, the progress they sought is lost and will be gone for decades, as conservative Supreme Court justices are appointed, grow old, and die.
2
Sanders would have beaten Trump. Thanks to myopic Hillary sheep who failed to see how popular Sanders was in the primary and how hated Hillary was, she won the primary and from then on, it was all over. Good going.
3
The notion that one should vote for a candidate solely on the basis of sex or race is just as ridiculous as that all Catholics were going to vote for Kennedy in 1960 which led to the charge he would take orders from the Vatican. There were some voters on both the left and the right for whom sex of the candidate was the only issue. But for the majority of voters then and now, economic concerns and safety issues were uppermost. People wanted change. That socialist Bernie Sanders could mount the challenge he did to HRC should have been an indication to the Democrats that a status quo candidate of policies was not going to be successful in a general election. It was foolish to believe that "cracking a glass ceiling" was reason enough to vote for Clinton. While many did vote for Obama because of the historic implications of his race, that was not the sole reason for most. In both of the last two elections the Republicans nominated candidates who were weak with no real message. They lost to a politician who was able to articulate a message even though in governing he was unable (for many reasons) to fully implement it.
None of the candidates running in this election were perfect by any measure and there are many reasons one could give for opposing one or the other. Women of all colors, creeds, and class voted as they did because they, like their male counterparts prioritized what issues they cared most about and voted accordingly.
None of the candidates running in this election were perfect by any measure and there are many reasons one could give for opposing one or the other. Women of all colors, creeds, and class voted as they did because they, like their male counterparts prioritized what issues they cared most about and voted accordingly.
4
Women voted from their pocketbooks more than anything else. Clinton didn't lose because women were fractured, they were united around something else than identity. Identity does not matter when no matter what anyone in your family does, income earners or students, can be counted on to bring them a lift out of poverty or fiend off the threat of poverty knocking on their door at any moment.
These ARE women's issues. The Clinton framing of the election platform missed that. She told women at the bottom it's not practical to help them and must wait for incremental change.
They have been waiting for that incremental change for decades in ever more dire conditions.
If nothing else incremental and waiting are the last thing women who voted for trump are going to do.
These ARE women's issues. The Clinton framing of the election platform missed that. She told women at the bottom it's not practical to help them and must wait for incremental change.
They have been waiting for that incremental change for decades in ever more dire conditions.
If nothing else incremental and waiting are the last thing women who voted for trump are going to do.
6
Women tend overall to vote Democratic. What is the difference between married Republican women who voted for Trump? Fox News on in the living room compulsively painting its grotesque caricature of Hillary Clinton. The election of a truly grotesque Republican man to the Presidency is testament to the power of propaganda.
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/07/28/a-closer-look-at-the-gen....
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/07/28/a-closer-look-at-the-gen....
7
Absolutely, Sherry. The masses watching Fox "news" and alt sites are brainwashed with innuendo and lies. (Similar to those who bought into "weapons of mass destruction").
3
Susan Sarandon didn't vote with her vagina. Neither did I. A number of post election analysis on why Hillary lost have come out and we all know why she lost. And don't blame us women for it.
11
It's ridiculous to think that women candidates should get a free pass to the presidency just because they are women. Consider Sarah Palin.
9
I know people think Sarah Palin is a punch line but she did become the governor of Alaska on her own merit; she did not ride her husband 's coat tails to political success.
5
Women can't stand each other and don't want to report to one another. It has been a corporate axiom for as long as I have worked. They can't be happy for another women's success. They have faired poorly under men but still prefer that to having a women in charge, at least in this country. With a President Trump, it is time to throw out all that sexual harassment nonsense. White working class women find it cute not at all unwanted.
No one no man hates women as much as wr've been taught to hate ourselves. Although I loved and admired my mother, I literally cried when I realized that when I grew up I would be a woman and be subjected your all the restrictions and unfairness I saw in the treatment of women around me. I am not any all suprisef by the results of the election, girls are taught that if another woman wins, every other woman loses. We are all in competition being judged by men. This sick message made me a feminist. But I understand that many women hate liberalism and feminism and see no up side in it for themselves. I was born into a working class family and life is hard for poor people. It is hard to look at the big picture and hope for improvement. Most poor women still dream some man will come along and rescue them, at least when they are young. Now many of those women think Donald Trump is a hero on a white horse. We'll see how the fairy tale works out, but I am sad for all those women who still put their faith in princes. No one can resucue you, but yourself.
34
Ouch. The truth hurts. I think you're right. Still, that said, it depends on the woman. And this woman was so unpopular.
This election was about race. Period. Why isn't the New York Times reporting on the hundreds of hate crimes that have occurred since the election?
10
This election was about each person voting their own conscience and ideals. perhaps all the identity politics has been shown to be a fraud?
let give credit to each person making their own decision, rather than group think, shall we?
let give credit to each person making their own decision, rather than group think, shall we?
2
S. Turlington--I'd like them to keep track of all of them, and report them. Then, they should also keep track of all the women who will die because of back street abortions, or undetected reproductive cancers. And, all the women who will fall into extreme poverty because they could not have an abortion. Rich women can always get an abortion, if they want one. It's the poor who will suffer from Christian Republican fiddling.
3
Armando--It was nothing BUT group think for the white Christian minority, and for all bigots. The other votes were split among people who did some thinking.
2
As a man who works in a female dominated industry, this result does not surprise me at all. Women are highly competitive with each other and critical of one another. I've always known that many women don't trust other women in positions of power. Numerous women -- coworkers, ex-girlfriends, wives of friends -- have told tell me in private conversations that they prefer having a male boss to a female one. Even if that male boss is a sexist, obnoxious jerk, they still think he will treat them more fairly than a boss who's a women. It turns out that many women were just not ready to vote for a woman for president.
25
Yes,"education was the great divide, for women as for men." But you left out the main reason - religion. Religion has been used since 2300 BC, when women were worshiped as goddesses and women and men shared power.
The article says, “From the 19th century on, women saw themselves as different, cleaning up and perfecting the public sphere". Yes, women finally woke up and realized they had been suppressed and enslaved since religion took over above reason.
Women in America came out in droves to get educated and build careers in the 1960s, after the pill became widely available. After they heard the stories of their mothers being forced to "go back home" from running the factories after WWII when the men came home and wanted "their" jobs back.
Then came Reagan and the extreme male backlash. And women, again, shut up, dug in and moved ahead in spite of barriers.
The article says, "class emerged as a powerful and divisive force that swung decisively Republican". MONEY is the power. This was not an election, it was a Financial Coup by the top 1% global financial elite who want another world war because they make so much money from chaos. I hope these women who did not "like" or "trust" Hillary because of the 30+ years of propaganda against her do not lose their children in the wars that will come if The Con Don and his band of crooks and robber barons are not stopped now.
Women need to fight for equal female-male balance in the world to stop it's destruction.
The article says, “From the 19th century on, women saw themselves as different, cleaning up and perfecting the public sphere". Yes, women finally woke up and realized they had been suppressed and enslaved since religion took over above reason.
Women in America came out in droves to get educated and build careers in the 1960s, after the pill became widely available. After they heard the stories of their mothers being forced to "go back home" from running the factories after WWII when the men came home and wanted "their" jobs back.
Then came Reagan and the extreme male backlash. And women, again, shut up, dug in and moved ahead in spite of barriers.
The article says, "class emerged as a powerful and divisive force that swung decisively Republican". MONEY is the power. This was not an election, it was a Financial Coup by the top 1% global financial elite who want another world war because they make so much money from chaos. I hope these women who did not "like" or "trust" Hillary because of the 30+ years of propaganda against her do not lose their children in the wars that will come if The Con Don and his band of crooks and robber barons are not stopped now.
Women need to fight for equal female-male balance in the world to stop it's destruction.
7
Ms. Clinton spend almost 3/4 BILLION Dollars on her campaign. I'm surprised that she didn't play this up. We all know the stereotype of how much women like to go shopping. Oh, I know, you think I'm joking, but no, I'm at least as serious about this as the people who decided to write and publish articles about Clinton's fashion statements. Or were those attempts to grab the attention of Bubba away from his NASCAR program?
Clinton lost because she was practically the worst possible choice of candidate for the D side, the 3/4 BILLION dollars that was blown on trying to convince us otherwise is ample evidence of this, and one needn't have been male to recognize and act on this knowledge.
Wonder how much of that 3/4 BILLION dollars went to the poor white people in swing states. Real interested to know.
Clinton lost because she was practically the worst possible choice of candidate for the D side, the 3/4 BILLION dollars that was blown on trying to convince us otherwise is ample evidence of this, and one needn't have been male to recognize and act on this knowledge.
Wonder how much of that 3/4 BILLION dollars went to the poor white people in swing states. Real interested to know.
5
Another low standard article in NYTimes. It was not just women not voting for a woman. But voting for a sexual predator / a sexist . And it was not just "Republican women voted for Trump" Indepemdent white women also did.
9
How is this any different from being married to a sexual predator/sexist for the past 40 years?
3
It seems it seems Republican women will get from Vice President elect Pence what they are asking for, namely restricting abortions severely and of course roll back the clock on gay marriage and LBGTQ. While governor of Indiana, Pence recommended conversion therapy for gays. I am afraid the Republicans will set this country so far back that it will take a generation or more to undo the damage they are starting to inflict on this country now. It feels like darkness is falling on Amerika and progress came to a standstill.
12
Ms. Chira seems not to understand that there are large swathes of women in this country who seem just as, if not more threatened by the idea of equality for women, as men.
Go out of the office, Ms. Chira. You can see in Astoria women wearing full body burkhas on 90 degree days in the summer. There are Orthodox Jewish women eing fruitful and multiplying, five, six, ten times, while sitting in the balcony far from the men in shul. Thee are. En fundamentalist Mormons defying the law with plural marriages and even marrying children into it. And those are not all white women, either.
How about imputing some responsibility to Ms. Clinton? The Times breahlessly reported a "state of the art ground game" of the Clinon campaign that somehow managed to turn out fewer voters than Mittens Romney or John McCain, and by a lot, too.
Go out of the office, Ms. Chira. You can see in Astoria women wearing full body burkhas on 90 degree days in the summer. There are Orthodox Jewish women eing fruitful and multiplying, five, six, ten times, while sitting in the balcony far from the men in shul. Thee are. En fundamentalist Mormons defying the law with plural marriages and even marrying children into it. And those are not all white women, either.
How about imputing some responsibility to Ms. Clinton? The Times breahlessly reported a "state of the art ground game" of the Clinon campaign that somehow managed to turn out fewer voters than Mittens Romney or John McCain, and by a lot, too.
4
The idea that a woman should vote for a woman is about as bright as a man voting for a man because he is a man. However, in this case, the woman was extraordinarily talented and motivated. The failure to vote for an exemplary candidate was the shame here, even more a shame for those voters who didn't get off their duffs and vote for anyone.
6
I'm sorry, John Brews, Hillary Clinton was not an exemplary candidate. Yes, she is knowledgeable but her actions in ofice particularly as Secretary of State, were anything but expemplary.
She strongly suported the invsion of Iraq, reportedly ignoring the full CIA report and just reading the cover page. She pushed a reluctant Obama to intervene in Libya and overthrow its government leaving a void which has caused untold suffering.
Then of course there's"Those damn e-mails." Defying Congressional subpoenas and playing fast and loose the the FBI DID NOT help her already shaky reputation for honesty. Her first act since leaving office was to cozy up to Wall Street. Hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of paid speeches did not give one hope that she would have done anything to rein in the masters of the universe. Despite the support of the entire political establishment from Obama on down she nearly lost the primaries to Bernie Sanders a little known senator from Vermont whose message caught fire among the young and dissafected.
She was a lousy candidate. She and her people had such faith in the idea that demography is destiny that she did not even bother to reach out to struggling working class whites in the rust belt who had supported Barak Obama but who like young voters, had backed Sanders in the primaries.
Look I voted for her in the general election but it was a grit your teeth hold your nose and fill in the little dot on the paper kind of vote.
She strongly suported the invsion of Iraq, reportedly ignoring the full CIA report and just reading the cover page. She pushed a reluctant Obama to intervene in Libya and overthrow its government leaving a void which has caused untold suffering.
Then of course there's"Those damn e-mails." Defying Congressional subpoenas and playing fast and loose the the FBI DID NOT help her already shaky reputation for honesty. Her first act since leaving office was to cozy up to Wall Street. Hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of paid speeches did not give one hope that she would have done anything to rein in the masters of the universe. Despite the support of the entire political establishment from Obama on down she nearly lost the primaries to Bernie Sanders a little known senator from Vermont whose message caught fire among the young and dissafected.
She was a lousy candidate. She and her people had such faith in the idea that demography is destiny that she did not even bother to reach out to struggling working class whites in the rust belt who had supported Barak Obama but who like young voters, had backed Sanders in the primaries.
Look I voted for her in the general election but it was a grit your teeth hold your nose and fill in the little dot on the paper kind of vote.
4
When will democrats realize that people are finally voting with their brains rather than according to their skin color or sex? Identity politics is racist and sexist. Good riddance
12
Tjere isn't any evidence that much thought went into voting for Trump. More of a Hail Mary pass.
3
Don't fool yourself many women (whatever race) voted for Hillary Clinton only because she was a woman. They did not know any issues much less could they vote on them. And the stats show six million less African Americans voted for Clinton than Obama. You can figure it out.
5
It's unimaginably complicated. Overall, we love our husbands, fathers, sons, brothers, friends even if they exert power and control over our lives. It is the lizard brain the amygdala. After 50 years I finally understand the phrase "a (free) woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle."
3
"They thought Obamacare went too far, and the government was too intrusive."
Sisters, if there is anything more governmentally "intrusive" than GOP ayatollahs like Mike Pence (now a heartbeat from the presidency ) trying to dictate a woman's reproductive choices, please tell what it is. Republicans have a morbid fascination with women's sexuality, and since they don't understand it, they fear it, and seek to do everything in their power to control it legislatively. Could we ever have elected a less "women friendly" ticket than Trump/Pence? I doubt it.
Sisters, if there is anything more governmentally "intrusive" than GOP ayatollahs like Mike Pence (now a heartbeat from the presidency ) trying to dictate a woman's reproductive choices, please tell what it is. Republicans have a morbid fascination with women's sexuality, and since they don't understand it, they fear it, and seek to do everything in their power to control it legislatively. Could we ever have elected a less "women friendly" ticket than Trump/Pence? I doubt it.
116
Absolutely, Susan. Pence is a throwback to the 1950s. Worst record ever of trying to legislate hate and bigotry. HIS "morals" are the only ones that count.
4
It has nothing to do with gender. The Democrats put up a floored candidate.
Is it not great that women voted not based on gender but what is best for them.
Unfortunately that was not Hillary.
So don't look at what is wrong with the electorate worry about what is wrong with the Democrats.
Is it not great that women voted not based on gender but what is best for them.
Unfortunately that was not Hillary.
So don't look at what is wrong with the electorate worry about what is wrong with the Democrats.
16
Women don’t like women because we didn’t like our mothers. Or our school teachers. Or the nuns in Catholic schools. Any female that had or has power over us makes us want to rebel against, sometimes very nastily. We view other females as controlling, demanding meanies instead of patient nurturers. It’s not until we grow older that we begin to understand what those women were up against. Perhaps, Hillary failed to break the glass ceiling not from men, but from women who saw her as their mothers.
3
"The dream of female solidarity is, and always has been, a myth."
No, Susan. The myth is that America should divide into tight demographic groups, and those groups must walk lock-stepped on all issues they face, turning inward toward the group's protection and away from the nation's larger and shared interests.
The calculus men and women and Black, White, Yellow, and Brown people faced in this election was secondary to the fact that the country has left a number of our own behind; and they were the most motivated to press for change. While a Progressive woman like yourself is worried about abortion and ascending the ladder there are tens of millions of women with whom you share not a scintilla of common experience. And there are men, many locked into lives into which they were born and grew up, with whom I do not share educational or professional experiences. They matter.
This election reminded us that America votes, not just targeted groups.
The family is the lowest common denominator of accountability and mutual support in society. I will look at all issues relative to the family, without which the burdens of a society (and the state that purports to provide all protections) cannot be borne.
I hope this costs Democrats a lot of elections, because this approach of leadership does absolutely nothing good for the nation.
Hillary feels that it takes a village to raise a child. Perhaps she can spend her retirement teasing out the logic on that thesis.
No, Susan. The myth is that America should divide into tight demographic groups, and those groups must walk lock-stepped on all issues they face, turning inward toward the group's protection and away from the nation's larger and shared interests.
The calculus men and women and Black, White, Yellow, and Brown people faced in this election was secondary to the fact that the country has left a number of our own behind; and they were the most motivated to press for change. While a Progressive woman like yourself is worried about abortion and ascending the ladder there are tens of millions of women with whom you share not a scintilla of common experience. And there are men, many locked into lives into which they were born and grew up, with whom I do not share educational or professional experiences. They matter.
This election reminded us that America votes, not just targeted groups.
The family is the lowest common denominator of accountability and mutual support in society. I will look at all issues relative to the family, without which the burdens of a society (and the state that purports to provide all protections) cannot be borne.
I hope this costs Democrats a lot of elections, because this approach of leadership does absolutely nothing good for the nation.
Hillary feels that it takes a village to raise a child. Perhaps she can spend her retirement teasing out the logic on that thesis.
20
Wow! A majority of white women and Republican women voted for Trump!
Will wonders ever cease?
Will wonders ever cease?
2
I agree. The simple matter is HRC could not and did not even try to find a means of talking to the women she lost. Simple things, like buying groceries, find clothes for their kids, and having time to monitor their kids schooling. She had no problems with these daily chores. We democrats have to find a person who the white working class and poor feel that they on on their side. Far too often the term "middle class" was used, and never, as far as I remember, have the Clintons talked of the working poor, or out of work poor. The latter probably saw no hope, and didn't vote.
3
I am a woman who voted for Hillary. However, I didn't care much about her gender. Votes should be cast on the basis of policy and character, not on how much a candidate looks like us or whether or not we have a vagina in common.
96
So I should have voted for Hillary because she was a woman? I admit I was thrilled to be able to cast my vote for a female candidate, but trust me, if Sarah Palin had been the candidate (heaven forbid) I would NEVER, under any circumstances, have voted for her. I'm a 67 year old white female with a graduate degree who voted for Bernie in the primary because of his positions on most issues, but when Hillary got the nomination, I voted for her for president. But I have no control over what anyone else does in the voting booth, and I'm sick and tired of being blamed for this mess because I happen to be an educated, boomer female. Was there some magic wand that we were supposed to wave that no one told us about? What on earth were we supposed to do, other than what we did?
99
"Fifty-three percent of white women voted for Mr. Trump."
And what percent of that 53% reside in patriarchal households wherein the pater familias, by ordinance of nature and nature's Source, always knows best?
And what percent of that 53% reside in patriarchal households wherein the pater familias, by ordinance of nature and nature's Source, always knows best?
54
Less that you apparently think, Mr. Bjelland.
2
Don't know. I'm sure some, but far from all. You live in an especially patriarchal state. Why don't you do the research and find out for us.
3
Remember the 2008 primary?
Obama ran up huge majorities among minority voters and ran the south, much like Trump last week.
Hillary won large victories in rust belt primaries, presumably getting votes from working class whites, including white women.
Hillary won millions fewer votes overall than Obama won in 2012.
Trump won millions fewer votes than Romney won in 2012, though there are millions more registered voters today.
The take? Voters didn't like either of these candidates, but they disliked Hillary more. They wanted change, and she was no change agent.
Obama ran up huge majorities among minority voters and ran the south, much like Trump last week.
Hillary won large victories in rust belt primaries, presumably getting votes from working class whites, including white women.
Hillary won millions fewer votes overall than Obama won in 2012.
Trump won millions fewer votes than Romney won in 2012, though there are millions more registered voters today.
The take? Voters didn't like either of these candidates, but they disliked Hillary more. They wanted change, and she was no change agent.
3
Who were some of these women who voted against Hillary - they are like my sister in law - white, born again (remember that term) Christians (in this case Catholic though she doesn't like this more liberal pope) with enough education to think they are better than anyone else. The democrats are too big tent.
But she believes in female solidarity, so long as those women believe as she does.
She voted for Trump, Carson was on her list before Trump, because she doesn't want her world view to be challenged - anti - abortion, abstinence best birth control, white people are smarter, prettier, belong, black people don't have an unfair disadvantage in society, the bible is not lore but fact, marriage is for straight people only.
To challenge her certainty is to challenge her core. If she is wrong then she has no purpose and then why get up in the morning. If she opened up her mind, it might kill her.
This certainty creates the hate that Trump so nefariously fed on. Hate does not come from fear of Muslims or Mexicans or terrorists. It comes from the fear that to acknowledge the rights of other people is to acknowledge that her beliefs are relative.
Liberal means open to knew ideas. To my sister in law, Hillary represented all that is wrong with liberal ideals.
But she believes in female solidarity, so long as those women believe as she does.
She voted for Trump, Carson was on her list before Trump, because she doesn't want her world view to be challenged - anti - abortion, abstinence best birth control, white people are smarter, prettier, belong, black people don't have an unfair disadvantage in society, the bible is not lore but fact, marriage is for straight people only.
To challenge her certainty is to challenge her core. If she is wrong then she has no purpose and then why get up in the morning. If she opened up her mind, it might kill her.
This certainty creates the hate that Trump so nefariously fed on. Hate does not come from fear of Muslims or Mexicans or terrorists. It comes from the fear that to acknowledge the rights of other people is to acknowledge that her beliefs are relative.
Liberal means open to knew ideas. To my sister in law, Hillary represented all that is wrong with liberal ideals.
11
Great points, MKKW. Evangelicals voting for the least Christ like character available. Abortion is a litmus test, when children, hunger and healthcare should be.
3
And then there's the fact that, as a "feminist", Hillary left a lot to be desired - the ridiculing of her husband's lovers, her hawkishness, and her history of support for her husband's axing of Aid to Families With Dependent Children (historically, feminists have been pacifists and supporters of a strong social safety net, along with an understandable reluctance to order bombing, since bombs tend to fall on women and children, too).
1
perhaps there's solidarity in delusion....
4
As a left coast liberal white male, I can tell you that it has been difficult to stomach the constant negativity towards white males over the last election cycle. Everything about my heritage and my gender has been fair game on all sides, including my wife and most of the well-heeled, educated women I know.
I cast my vote for Hillary because she was the most qualified candidate but also with the fear that the constant man bashing that has become de rigueur would continue to intensify.
It's very difficult to come to terms with the fact that I would have been fired from any job I have ever held for saying anything as crass as is on the front page of every liberal newspaper in this country.
This acceptance of white man bashing almost shook me from my liberal values and that frightens me almost as much as the prospect of a Trump presidency.
Acceptance of everyone includes white men. Think before you write another article celebrating our destruction.
I cast my vote for Hillary because she was the most qualified candidate but also with the fear that the constant man bashing that has become de rigueur would continue to intensify.
It's very difficult to come to terms with the fact that I would have been fired from any job I have ever held for saying anything as crass as is on the front page of every liberal newspaper in this country.
This acceptance of white man bashing almost shook me from my liberal values and that frightens me almost as much as the prospect of a Trump presidency.
Acceptance of everyone includes white men. Think before you write another article celebrating our destruction.
14
While I think more white women would have shown up for Ms Clinton had it not been for Comey's deliberate interference, I know that percentage for Trump would still be high. This was the year that white people rallied around the racist who told them that they are right to be aggrieved and angry and that their blame is rightly directed at minorities and "others." This is the message Trump "won" on. There is no shortage of self hatred among the women who voted for Trump. Women who went along with the guys and characterized Trumps admissions of sexual assault as harmless guy talk while despising Ms Clinton for being smart and ambitious. It's a heart breaking truth to a feminist like me that many white women don't understand that no matter how they see themselves, or disavow feminism - the male dominated power structure will view and treat them as the second class citizens we women still are. It's a tragedy.
84
It's rather strange, that I was able to predict this kind of reaction just from watching the movie "Mean Girls." My sister and I debated this frequently ever since the polls showed the women's vote for Trump. Our hypothesis seemed correct, women simply seemed less cohesive than men in opinion. Perhaps it wasn't that they just liked to gossip or connive behind each other's backs, they were also divided based on the class they belonged to, as Chira puts it. Like in the movie, you see the girls act different if they were nerds, goths or the 'plastics.' If I sweep that under the carpet, however, there is still the elephant in the room, of race. The white population, women included, have been antagonized largely by the calling of bigotry and the paradox of intolerance. Those preaching diversity must seem monstrous to their national identities if they're so willing to elect a man who has been heard abusing women.
3
I am a woman who, in September, had a plumber come to my casita to fix a sprung leak under my bathroom sink.
In due course he said to me "You can't vote for her just because she's a woman".
I looked to see that he was wearing a wedding ring.
I am a registered Independent consistent voter since 1976.
I certainly would not vote for Hillary Clinton simply because she is a Democrat or because she is a woman.
However, as November 8th edged closer I recognized the brow-beating, the undeserved contempt for women.
I read from men and women that women mustn't vote for Hillary simply because she was a woman.
Finally I submitted this to the NYT:
whisper spritely Catalina Foothills
In this article there are the likes of men:Mr. Comey, senior FBI agents, Bill Clinton, Mr. Manafort, Anthony Weiner.....and then there is Donald Trump as well.
The time has come, the be all and end all for me.
I am voting for Hillary Clinton because she is a woman.
I put it out there.
Don't tell me I can't vote for a woman because she is a woman when men have been voting perennially for men, some unsavory, in this country since its beginning.
In due course he said to me "You can't vote for her just because she's a woman".
I looked to see that he was wearing a wedding ring.
I am a registered Independent consistent voter since 1976.
I certainly would not vote for Hillary Clinton simply because she is a Democrat or because she is a woman.
However, as November 8th edged closer I recognized the brow-beating, the undeserved contempt for women.
I read from men and women that women mustn't vote for Hillary simply because she was a woman.
Finally I submitted this to the NYT:
whisper spritely Catalina Foothills
In this article there are the likes of men:Mr. Comey, senior FBI agents, Bill Clinton, Mr. Manafort, Anthony Weiner.....and then there is Donald Trump as well.
The time has come, the be all and end all for me.
I am voting for Hillary Clinton because she is a woman.
I put it out there.
Don't tell me I can't vote for a woman because she is a woman when men have been voting perennially for men, some unsavory, in this country since its beginning.
63
"Celinda Lake, a veteran Democratic pollster, said, 'Democrats never win white women.'"
Huh? I'm a white woman and so are many of my friends and relatives, and every one of us voted for Hillary, as we have for all of the democratic candidates before her. What are you talking about?
Huh? I'm a white woman and so are many of my friends and relatives, and every one of us voted for Hillary, as we have for all of the democratic candidates before her. What are you talking about?
3
Since 1968, women have always supported GOP nominees (Bill Clinton was the exception when he barely carried their vote in 1996).
Obama was crushed by McCain (54-43 percent) and Romney (56-42 percent) among white women.
White women are the wives, sisters and daughters of white men and thus have full-access to white privilege. White feminism has always been in conjunction with white privilege. They are white first, women second... That's why they had no problem embracing Trump and white male patriarchy.
Black women know it and gave 94 percent of their votes against the racist, misogynistic Trump.
There's no such thing as interracial sisterhood.
Obama was crushed by McCain (54-43 percent) and Romney (56-42 percent) among white women.
White women are the wives, sisters and daughters of white men and thus have full-access to white privilege. White feminism has always been in conjunction with white privilege. They are white first, women second... That's why they had no problem embracing Trump and white male patriarchy.
Black women know it and gave 94 percent of their votes against the racist, misogynistic Trump.
There's no such thing as interracial sisterhood.
They are probably hoping against hope, that when he dumps a Melania he will wisk them off to the deluxe apartment in the sky.
7
What's gender gotta do with anything, really? It's like asking the question "What does the color of a man's skin gotta do with anything?' Neither of these are really addressing the issue of behavior. It's the behavior of a person that should matter. Continuing this narrative is divisive. How about we talk about merit and how we attract the best people to lead?
4
What a lot of hooey. I'm a Hispanic female voter with an MD degree. I thought Mrs Clinton was a corrupt opportunist who believed women were so stupid that we would overlook all of her flaws, and vote female. That's the sexism of low expectations. We saw her exactly for what she was,and it pained us to see that the first woman president might actually be a corrupt congenital liar.
Hopefully we will get a good female candidate for the presidency in the future, not one who married well, and took her incompetence all the way to the Democratic nomination.
Hopefully we will get a good female candidate for the presidency in the future, not one who married well, and took her incompetence all the way to the Democratic nomination.
24
During the election between the first Bush, Clinton, and Ross Perot, Perot said that if NAFTA was passed, that the great big sucking sound would be American jobs going to Mexico. Lo! and Behold! Bill Clinton got elected, NAFTA was passed and thousands of jobs went to Mexico. The erosion of middle class jobs began. Since then middle class folk have been working harder and not seeing their lives getting better.
Then Hillary came along. Twenty odd years later they were being asked to vote for more of the same. That is a tough sell.
Middle class white men and middle class white women were voting their stomachs, their pocket books, and their futures on a different course. It's not that that they are anti-HIllary, it's that they want a decent job with a decent future. It is hard to vote your ideals (electing the first woman to be president), when you are struggling to make ends meet.
I voted for Hillary, but my heart goes out to the folks in the mid-West just trying to make ends meet.
Then Hillary came along. Twenty odd years later they were being asked to vote for more of the same. That is a tough sell.
Middle class white men and middle class white women were voting their stomachs, their pocket books, and their futures on a different course. It's not that that they are anti-HIllary, it's that they want a decent job with a decent future. It is hard to vote your ideals (electing the first woman to be president), when you are struggling to make ends meet.
I voted for Hillary, but my heart goes out to the folks in the mid-West just trying to make ends meet.
4
Ms. Chira makes a fundamental logical error. She generalizes about women based on an election that was unusual in every way. In particular, the votes of white middle class and working class women were skewed toward Trump more than they have ever been skewed toward any candidate in any election. And never before have 62% of non-college white women voted Republican.
The decline in the economic well-being of middle class white women since the Recession is unprecedented. Worst of all home ownership is at its lowest rare in 50 years. When you are deeply economically dissatisfied, that's all that matters. And you take it out against the party in power. White women have not rejected feminism. They just had more pressing matters that decided their votes this year.
The decline in the economic well-being of middle class white women since the Recession is unprecedented. Worst of all home ownership is at its lowest rare in 50 years. When you are deeply economically dissatisfied, that's all that matters. And you take it out against the party in power. White women have not rejected feminism. They just had more pressing matters that decided their votes this year.
4
White suburban women voting for Trump was a case of Stockholm syndrome. They are the ones married to the angry white men. They don't have independent finances; they defer to the news outlets their spouses watch; they defer to the politics their spouses espouse. You can read their spouses condescending, dismissive, mysogynistic viewpoints in NYT's comment sections.
19
Female solidarity has no place in politics. Period.
Feminism means men and women are given no special treatment This means a woman must rise to prominence and win an election on her own merit.
That was a hurdle Mrs. Clinton couldn't clear. All the post-election spin in the world cannot change that one simple fact.
Feminism means men and women are given no special treatment This means a woman must rise to prominence and win an election on her own merit.
That was a hurdle Mrs. Clinton couldn't clear. All the post-election spin in the world cannot change that one simple fact.
5
A the end of the day, at the bottom line, one is judged solely by who one is as a human being. Gender, party, race, religion, sexual orientation, creed, ideolgy, et. al. are NOT the ultimate axes upon which human beings, and any given human being are judged. Hillary Clinton may as well have been an Alien species from Mars or any other celestial point, and if "she" displayed the same character as the human Hillary, the people of earth would not have embraced her. Earthlings prefer even their Aliens to be softer, kinder, fuzzier, warmer and lovable. Hillary could not even muster likability.
As Doctor King and many others have told us and reminded us from the dy of our birth, each human is judged by who they are as a character -- an individual living entity. Right from the get-go George Washington despite the fact that he was a slave-owning, womanizing, suited, land-owning, "corner-office" inhabiting white male, was still admired because he told the truth about the cherry tree. Fundamental honesty is all tht we really ask from the people that we send to Washington, D. C. or any of our State Capitols or any elective office.
As Doctor King and many others have told us and reminded us from the dy of our birth, each human is judged by who they are as a character -- an individual living entity. Right from the get-go George Washington despite the fact that he was a slave-owning, womanizing, suited, land-owning, "corner-office" inhabiting white male, was still admired because he told the truth about the cherry tree. Fundamental honesty is all tht we really ask from the people that we send to Washington, D. C. or any of our State Capitols or any elective office.
2
Reggie-Re: Your " Earthlings prefer even their Aliens to be softer, kinder, fuzzier, warmer and lovable."
That would be Donald Trump?
That would be Donald Trump?
America will soon have a POTUS that is a qualified, intelligent, strong, caring and trustworthy person, who also happens to be a woman. Of this there is no doubt. HRC possessed many of the qualities that should have created an atmosphere of near electoral perfection, especially against the likes of Mr. Trump. However, no matter how many times she blames Mr. Comey or some right wing conspiracies for her defeat, it was a defeat of her own making. Her insincerity and deep lack of honesty were just too transparent.
5
Black people support each other to throw off the yoke. Women don't.
12
One of the lessons of this dreadful campaign is that most women apparently won't vote for another woman simply to achieve gender unity. And that's a good thing. It shows that to win the women's vote, candidates must do more than endlessly talk about breaking through the glass ceiling, as Hillary often did. Women are more than a homogeneous class. They are well educated and less educated, rich and poor, liberal and conservative, city dwellers and small town folks, evangelicals and atheists -- just like men. Successful candidates are those who can harmonize using many notes, not repeatedly pound the same note on the keyboard. Female candidates are not automatically entitled to the women's vote; they must earn it.
65
One-note candidates, thy name is Trump. It can be safely said that his one-note hit was anger. Simple motivator, but ultimately, destructive.
3
Isn't looking past gender and focusing on the issues supposed to be a good thing?
70
Didi ... I would say YES to your question, but remind you that Trump made gender an issue. What I don't understand is because respect is a primal, elemental aspect of all relationships, why for women did it not super-cede all other issues?
2
Didi- A MAIN 'issue' was that a woman was vying with a man to be president of the United States of America.
That was not being looked past by anyone as they "focused on the issues".
It is just that 'those others' wanted it to be looked past.
That was not being looked past by anyone as they "focused on the issues".
It is just that 'those others' wanted it to be looked past.
1
Sorry definitely not politically correct. We must objectify gender.
I am a pro-life woman and an evangelical Christian and I would never vote for Trump, even if my only viable option was an arrogant liar who wouldn't follow the rules if God himself gave her them on a tablet. I believe the evangelical church is on the wrong side of history on this one, as they have been at many critical moments in our country's historical arc. They have allied themselves with the devil to gain one or two Supreme Court seats, but how very much have they lost?
My one complaint is: Yes, African Americans and Latinos went for Hillary, but most DIDN"T VOTE!! Please! Don't blame this all on white America. If you didn't vote, or voted for a non-viable third party candidate, you contributed to this result as much as any individual Trump vote.
My one complaint is: Yes, African Americans and Latinos went for Hillary, but most DIDN"T VOTE!! Please! Don't blame this all on white America. If you didn't vote, or voted for a non-viable third party candidate, you contributed to this result as much as any individual Trump vote.
15
There is no doubt food trumps sex, in ways more than one!
Hindsight is 20/20, Trump was offering hope, perverted hope. The same that powered the rise of Nazi Germany. Of course, no one with any decency wanted that to happen but how are you going to argue with the true believer a la Eric Hoffer?
People in the Democratic camp should bear some responsibilities too though. We know the Republicans have been blocking President Obama's initiatives. But repeating the accusation - like you see the responses of regular readers here - doesn't get us anywhere. However, the left wing has not been giving Mr Obama and his would-be successor any negotiating powers. The environmentalists were making a scene any time they don't get their way. Same with the financial critics. This is not to say they were wrong. Things like banks and drug cost are real. However, they should have let the Administration fairly but quietly because of the image problem, never mind if Administration inherited these problems and didn't cause them.
Mrs Clinton inherit any of these problems. The right would oppose her. That is a given. But by forcing her to the left while Mr Trump has stalked out the populist position really limited her hand. Sure, she has made many mistakes too. When people lose hope, never mind it is a perceived one, and want to return to a place that never was, they don't particularly care to go in bed with a cat grabber and subcontractor cheater. They just want to feel good, like taking opioid
Hindsight is 20/20, Trump was offering hope, perverted hope. The same that powered the rise of Nazi Germany. Of course, no one with any decency wanted that to happen but how are you going to argue with the true believer a la Eric Hoffer?
People in the Democratic camp should bear some responsibilities too though. We know the Republicans have been blocking President Obama's initiatives. But repeating the accusation - like you see the responses of regular readers here - doesn't get us anywhere. However, the left wing has not been giving Mr Obama and his would-be successor any negotiating powers. The environmentalists were making a scene any time they don't get their way. Same with the financial critics. This is not to say they were wrong. Things like banks and drug cost are real. However, they should have let the Administration fairly but quietly because of the image problem, never mind if Administration inherited these problems and didn't cause them.
Mrs Clinton inherit any of these problems. The right would oppose her. That is a given. But by forcing her to the left while Mr Trump has stalked out the populist position really limited her hand. Sure, she has made many mistakes too. When people lose hope, never mind it is a perceived one, and want to return to a place that never was, they don't particularly care to go in bed with a cat grabber and subcontractor cheater. They just want to feel good, like taking opioid
3
Before World War I, socialist politicians hoped that workers would unite across class lines and refuse to go off and die for their non-worker governments. Unfortunately, class loyalty was no match for national loyalty, workers were patriots first, and millions killed each other in the trenches. If more workers had refused to fight their fellow workers, a gigantic slaughter might have been avoided or truncated.
15
And we could all be speaking German. The fact is there will always be aggressive people, nations, workers and corporations in the world. Wishing it not so doesn't work.
Republican Trump women "thought Obamacare went too far, and the government was too intrusive."
Obamacare covers all FDA-approved contraceptives — including the pill, IUDs, the ring, the patch and many others — without any form of cost-sharing like copayments or deductibles, i.e., no cost.
Alternatively, GOPercare requires an occasional state capitol tranasvaginal ultrasound for women and state capitol control of a woman's uterus by a bunch of crusty, male Grand Old Perverts obsessing over women's body parts.
But I understand, Republican ladies, Obamacare is so 'intrusive'.
Republican women, like their Republican men, have magical powers of cognitive dissonance that mere mortals lack.
Angry white women, captive to their angry white men, did their Stockholm-Syndrome-best and sided with the white, male Abuser-In-Chief, who reassuringly reminded American women last spring that has to be 'some form of punishment' for women.
Grand Old Punishment for Grand Old Pregnancies by Grand Old Perverts just feels so right to the Republican Party's Stockholm Syndrome schizophrenics.
Obamacare covers all FDA-approved contraceptives — including the pill, IUDs, the ring, the patch and many others — without any form of cost-sharing like copayments or deductibles, i.e., no cost.
Alternatively, GOPercare requires an occasional state capitol tranasvaginal ultrasound for women and state capitol control of a woman's uterus by a bunch of crusty, male Grand Old Perverts obsessing over women's body parts.
But I understand, Republican ladies, Obamacare is so 'intrusive'.
Republican women, like their Republican men, have magical powers of cognitive dissonance that mere mortals lack.
Angry white women, captive to their angry white men, did their Stockholm-Syndrome-best and sided with the white, male Abuser-In-Chief, who reassuringly reminded American women last spring that has to be 'some form of punishment' for women.
Grand Old Punishment for Grand Old Pregnancies by Grand Old Perverts just feels so right to the Republican Party's Stockholm Syndrome schizophrenics.
194
I consider it condescending to argue that women should vote based solely on their reproductive needs. Women have interests that go beyond the uterus. And if they can't afford a home, a car, savings, a retirement plan, and a vacation, I believe it is reasonable for them to vote on that basis rather than the cost of an IUD.
3
Do you feel better now? Thanks for calling us all Stepford Wives.
1
Absolutely right, Socrates, conned by a con man. Don has no interest in helping anyone, but himself. Ignorant people voting against their best interests.
6
How about that a lot of women, rather than closing ranks behind a woman simply because she is a woman, regard the importance of what they perceive to be America's balanced interests as the most important determinant of their votes?
I suspect you might find a ton of women who normally vote Democratic probably feel the same way. You sacrifice the solemnity of such considerations on an altar of identity politics.
I suspect you might find a ton of women who normally vote Democratic probably feel the same way. You sacrifice the solemnity of such considerations on an altar of identity politics.
71
True. Now, how they saw Trump as even remotely qualified, that's the real question.
10
And, your point would be? Republican women voted Republican? Mrs. Clinton did not emphasize gender in 2008, but was encouraged to do so now. Regardless of your assessment that gender did not become the ultimate deciding factor for many women the fact is that there would have been something historic in a woman finally reaching the most powerful position in the world. Please note, I did not say that that was necessarily a reason to vote for a Democrat - especially for those who never have before, but gender was not unimportant.
Many whose views are to the right of center voted for Trump because they see a path to control the SCOTUS, a path to undo the Affordable Care Act, to push gays back into the closet - in short, to remake the country to their liking. So, beyond the "angry white" segment, Hillary could never gain votes from the social conservatives. They would be, at any rate, those most likely to dislike feminism (and feminists), which they view as destroying the "traditional family" and "values" (their values).
Many whose views are to the right of center voted for Trump because they see a path to control the SCOTUS, a path to undo the Affordable Care Act, to push gays back into the closet - in short, to remake the country to their liking. So, beyond the "angry white" segment, Hillary could never gain votes from the social conservatives. They would be, at any rate, those most likely to dislike feminism (and feminists), which they view as destroying the "traditional family" and "values" (their values).
79
But gender should be irrelevant in an rational decision making process, at least in being president. Considering most of Hillary's experience was in failure why would you give her a promotion?
1
I see the point as being that if fifty-one percent of American women had voted for Clinton she would have been the first woman president.
2
I am German and we have a female Chancellor. As has been seen in the last two years, she is truly the worst thing to happen to Germany and Europe. She's a little dictator who doesn't brook any criticism.
When 1000 Muslim men descended on Cologne and sexually assaulted women, she completely ignored it, as she has ignored her country's safety and women's safety since then.
There were in the beginning a few voices who wanted to suppress criticism about her with "you are a sexist if you don't agree with her" cries. Thankfully, these voices are silent now. A vagina is not a mitigating circumstance.
I cannot believe this utter hypocritical nonsense of believing a woman in charge will make things better. Sexism served straight-up. But then, the NYTimes seems to be stuck in the last century.