The problem with such fare reductions is that it makes expansion of the transit system more difficult. What the poor need is an expansion of the transit system so that they can get to job opportunities. The New York region's rail and subway system is good for funneling people in and out of Manhattan but does a poor job of connecting the outer boroughs with each other and with New Jersey. Unfortunately, there has been only minimal expansion of the system in the past half century.
In contrast, Tokyo has completed three major subway lines in the past 20 years and extended another major line to provide better connection with suburban areas. Tokyo's system provides lower income people far better access to job opportunities throughout the city than does New York's. In addition, the typical trip cost in Tokyo is 25% to 40% less than New York's base $3.00 single trip fare.
People need to ask why such a vast difference exists. One reason is that Japan spent lots of money in the past 20 years to upgrade its transit system while the US wasted lots of money on stupid wars in the Middle East and Afghanistan, money which did nothing to make the world a safer or better place. Brand new rail systems could have been constructed in every major city in the US at a fraction of the cost of these wars. If the new president is really interested in transforming the lives of America's poor, a good place to start would be a massive investment in new rail systems in America's cities.
In contrast, Tokyo has completed three major subway lines in the past 20 years and extended another major line to provide better connection with suburban areas. Tokyo's system provides lower income people far better access to job opportunities throughout the city than does New York's. In addition, the typical trip cost in Tokyo is 25% to 40% less than New York's base $3.00 single trip fare.
People need to ask why such a vast difference exists. One reason is that Japan spent lots of money in the past 20 years to upgrade its transit system while the US wasted lots of money on stupid wars in the Middle East and Afghanistan, money which did nothing to make the world a safer or better place. Brand new rail systems could have been constructed in every major city in the US at a fraction of the cost of these wars. If the new president is really interested in transforming the lives of America's poor, a good place to start would be a massive investment in new rail systems in America's cities.
12
Perhaps the best way to solve this problem is to have the wealthy willingly pay to subsidize the poor. Traditionally, segregating services into business and coach sections has been viewed with a negative context, however, offering a different class of service allows the ability of charging increased rates to cover subsidized rates. Business class cars could be equipped with business style lounges, extra seats and wifi. Who would pay $300 a month for a subway car ride in which 40 additional hours of work per month could be completed? I would.
1
No one is forced to live in NYC, one of the most expensive cities in the world, and no one is forced to have a child when they cannot support even themselves.
If $113 a month for unlimited subway rides is too expensive - and that is far cheaper than owner a car - then the solution is not to ask everyone else to pay more to subsidize even more people, on top of their subsidized housing, but for them move further out where housing is cheaper, as do millions of people who commute and hour or more every day to work in NYC.
Are Democrats in NYC actually trying to prove Trump's point?
If $113 a month for unlimited subway rides is too expensive - and that is far cheaper than owner a car - then the solution is not to ask everyone else to pay more to subsidize even more people, on top of their subsidized housing, but for them move further out where housing is cheaper, as do millions of people who commute and hour or more every day to work in NYC.
Are Democrats in NYC actually trying to prove Trump's point?
27
The irony is anything they saved in rent will be eaten up in transportation costs as well as a loss of many of the subsidized city services. There is no easy answer.
8
New York's Manhattan borough is dependent on making it affordable for the vast majority of people servicing it, and living outside. Sure hope the authorities will show empathy and restraint...by not killing the goose that lays the golden eggs. This, particularly to those with the luxury of being 'locals', unable, or unwilling, to walk in their neighbor's shoes.
3
Everyone who travels on mass transit gets a subway. We need to get rid of undocumented people. We don't have money for more riders.
12
I think it is a great idea, just concerned about the budget. Where will the extra cash come from? If we raise the price anymore, those that can afford it will take an Uber instead of the subway.
Also, why would the sub-teacher have her child go under the turnstile? If the child was on the way to school, NYC already provides metro cards for children. Or if the child is under 5 and too young for school, then they're free anyway.
Also, why would the sub-teacher have her child go under the turnstile? If the child was on the way to school, NYC already provides metro cards for children. Or if the child is under 5 and too young for school, then they're free anyway.
13
Perhaps the money to fund these subsidies can found in the savings from not having to pay overtime the police for catching and processing those who try to dodge the fare because they cannot afford it.
NYC is very expensive. Those who can least afford it live at the fringes and commute into the Manhattan. We want the city to remain attractive and for people to be able to at least survive.
$194 million in lost revenues is nothing - nothing. It's the price of two top floor apartments in a luxury high-rise. Perhaps additional money can be taken from the Real Estate Transfer Tax.
NYC is very expensive. Those who can least afford it live at the fringes and commute into the Manhattan. We want the city to remain attractive and for people to be able to at least survive.
$194 million in lost revenues is nothing - nothing. It's the price of two top floor apartments in a luxury high-rise. Perhaps additional money can be taken from the Real Estate Transfer Tax.
8
What are you talking about? Cops do overtime because they are stretched thin. Also many fare beaters do so just because they can. Most fare beaters I see are high or drunk. Most honest low income people who are low income would rather beg a quarter from everyone (which I see often) rather than steal by jumping the turnstile. Subsidizing fares won't stop thieves.
9
I'm all for student and elderly discounts - but this is the too much. NYC helps the poor more than any other city. In most cities the working poor still has to get a car - which is a much more expensive proposition. The working poor - also often get rent subsidy of some form. Where would this loss in revenue be made up? Compare NYC to London... Yes gas taxes are higher there and they pay a congestion charge - but the average fare is also more expensive. Someone in Sunset Park traveling to Midtown would pay much more than the base fare. The MTA has serious debt and pension obligations. Money doesn't just come from nowhere.
33
In response to Paul F: the article features a substitute teacher who has difficulty coming up with transit fares on her teaching income. Would you agree that in this case at least it is the poor (the teacher) who is subsidizing the middle class (whose children are the predominant users of the public school system)? How wd you remedy that kind of situation, which also includes other working NY poor who commute to minimum wage jobs that keep NY working--housekeepers, building maintenance workers, fast food employees,etc.? I hope yr answer isn't that's their problem because eventually those problems, unaddressed, reduce the quality of life for all of us. I won't take more time to spell out how that works; the consequences are well understood.
13
FYI - Housekeepers I have seen make WAY MORE than minimum wage in NYC. That is also true if they work in hotels. Building maintenance people often get paid well or get free housin in the building they work.
9
So what about public service workers who are living under the poverty level? Not the well paid housekeepers and building maintenance people that you know.
8
The more I think about it the better this idea of lowering costs to get to work sounds. How can we make it better for the working poor to get by is to make getting to work cheaper. Couple this with a more realistic minimum wage and make improvements in local schools where children no longer have to have to go from one side of NYC to the other to try to get a decent education working becomes an attractive alternative.
Of course the real problem is how to fund cheaper transportation. Giving subsidies is usually the first thought but this often is not so cheap or efficient. Just look at the bureaucracy needed to administer subsidies and the problem of determining who should get a subsidy and who shouldn't. Unfortunately the MTA has a history of politician administrators who never seem to do a good job and the act of building any improvements to our subway systems always seems to costs many times original estimates while taking many years longer to complete. Probably real reform of the MTA is a good first step to come up with more money. Better management of the labor force is another way to save money. Some years ago it was discovered that 90% of retires for the LIRR were disability retirements and I don't think there has been any real changes.
NYC is full of very bright people who I'm sure can think of other ideas to provide a great transportation system that is more desirable and cheaper for its customers
Of course the real problem is how to fund cheaper transportation. Giving subsidies is usually the first thought but this often is not so cheap or efficient. Just look at the bureaucracy needed to administer subsidies and the problem of determining who should get a subsidy and who shouldn't. Unfortunately the MTA has a history of politician administrators who never seem to do a good job and the act of building any improvements to our subway systems always seems to costs many times original estimates while taking many years longer to complete. Probably real reform of the MTA is a good first step to come up with more money. Better management of the labor force is another way to save money. Some years ago it was discovered that 90% of retires for the LIRR were disability retirements and I don't think there has been any real changes.
NYC is full of very bright people who I'm sure can think of other ideas to provide a great transportation system that is more desirable and cheaper for its customers
6
A living wage would take care of this...and the many pre-tax transit programs must be made available through payrolls of even the smallest businesses.
8
Why not just hop on the select buses? There is no one getting on board to check that fares have been paid, and I have no doubt that savvy NYers have figured this out. Between that and turnstile ducking/jumping the MTA must be losing billions; but then they've also save million eliminating token booth clerks.
1
"Ms. Wells said she had sometimes asked her son to duck under turnstiles to avoid paying his fare, even though she knew that doing so was against the rules."
Against the rules? How about against the law?
As long as New York City's transit system gets federal subsidies no one should be getting discounted fares. Most of those subsidies come from the road use taxes paid by those of us who buy gasoline. That's why we don't have the money to fix our highways and bridges.
I'm sure substitute teachers make good money when they work and the fare to get to whatever school she's been assigned to is worth the fare to get to it. Maybe she needs more hours. I'd also like to know what other sources of support she gets. No child support from the father of her child? SNAP?
Against the rules? How about against the law?
As long as New York City's transit system gets federal subsidies no one should be getting discounted fares. Most of those subsidies come from the road use taxes paid by those of us who buy gasoline. That's why we don't have the money to fix our highways and bridges.
I'm sure substitute teachers make good money when they work and the fare to get to whatever school she's been assigned to is worth the fare to get to it. Maybe she needs more hours. I'd also like to know what other sources of support she gets. No child support from the father of her child? SNAP?
17
While I agree in principle- You in Charlotte shouldn't worry about it. NYC residents are subsidizing you when you look at the federal balance of payments. If you are willing to give us the difference that would be honorable of you.
7
We could reduce our reliance on you if you'd take the Democrat voters out Charlotte and have them live by you. Those are the ones in public housing, getting SNAP and WIC, Medicaid, etc.
We could probably reduce the number of Police and Sheriff's departments employees too.
You could have saved money by not subsidizing the "Trolley to Nowhere" Anthony Foxx sent us too.
We could probably reduce the number of Police and Sheriff's departments employees too.
You could have saved money by not subsidizing the "Trolley to Nowhere" Anthony Foxx sent us too.
4
Let's pay for a subsidized card for low income New Yorkers in part by getting rid of the subsidized card currently available to seniors. The low income subsidized card would continue to cover any senior who has an economic need for a reduced fair. But a number of seniors in this city have no economic need for a reduced fair card and younger New Yorkers should not be subsidizing the subway cards of wealthy seniors through our taxes and full priced fares.
25
Sounds good - but the numbers don't add up. Most of those elderly who could afford it don't use transit often enough. I doubt it's close
at all really. Most of the elderly who get the discount - need it.
at all really. Most of the elderly who get the discount - need it.
7
If you look at this MTA web page http://web.mta.info/mta/farebenefits.htm, you will see that there are already 6 outsourced employee benefit transit programs funded by pre-tax paycheck deductions.
It will be far more efficient to provide direct subsidies to the working poor via these existing programs rather than burdening the MTA with administering its own half/fare Metrocard scheme which is certain to invite abuse. Payroll based systems, however, have access to employees' actual earnings.
Insofar as opening up the subways to "the homeless" for free is a horrible idea that's the best route to bringing the system back to the squalor of the late 70s.
It will be far more efficient to provide direct subsidies to the working poor via these existing programs rather than burdening the MTA with administering its own half/fare Metrocard scheme which is certain to invite abuse. Payroll based systems, however, have access to employees' actual earnings.
Insofar as opening up the subways to "the homeless" for free is a horrible idea that's the best route to bringing the system back to the squalor of the late 70s.
7
I don't have enough money for a BMW M4, can I please be subsidized?
The world is changing, the free rides are over. Those who having been doing all the paying are very
Very
upset.
The world is changing, the free rides are over. Those who having been doing all the paying are very
Very
upset.
29
this idea is a good one. people who are traveling on the subways are people who are trying -- they are working, they are taking kids somewhere, or elderly parents or friends somewhere, they are going out, doing, looking for help, etc.
i say this as a pretty conservative NYer who is not unhappy that Trump one (sort of in the middle on that one, a little scared.)
New Yorkers who are low income should get discounted fares. Period!
i say this as a pretty conservative NYer who is not unhappy that Trump one (sort of in the middle on that one, a little scared.)
New Yorkers who are low income should get discounted fares. Period!
2
Except there is a real thing called a budget that can't change with a snap of the finger. We saw that mindset before and NYC almost went broke.
12
Why should those who can afford full fare subsidize those who can't?
And you wonder why the transit system isn't working - it's because you are riding and not paying your share.
Where is the shortfall money coming from? Other people's pockets. And eventually that, too, will run out.
And you wonder why the transit system isn't working - it's because you are riding and not paying your share.
Where is the shortfall money coming from? Other people's pockets. And eventually that, too, will run out.
25
so let me see, a guy who finds it hard to pay a full subway fare but is expected to go to work each day is supposed to do.... what? walk the distance, no matter how far? use gypsy cabs and other methods that don't pay fair taxes and deprive the subway system of revenue? the record ridership is already paying record fares but the system is over 100 years old and is not only showing wear, tear and age, but has been severely damaged by record storms over the last few years, which is one of the reasons "the system isn't working." not everything needs to exceed it's income to be a useful part of a thriving city. a mass transit or public transportation system contributes to the civic and social fabric of a city. it's not a "for profit" ideal. not everyt you sound like a "me for mine" sort of person.
11
Yes. The MTA's pension obligations are very burdensome.
15
Some of the shortfall often comes because NYS uses MTA funds to patch its own budget holes.
5
Here we go again, subsidize the poor, put it on the middle class. The same old story over and over again.
34
It's not affordable and unfair to those paying full price the Mass transit system needs more revenue not less coming in. In the 60's through 70's the fares were kept too low bringing the system to the brink. Decades have brought it to a good state of service but not the system needed by a large Cosmopolitan city. Revenue needs to take care of operational and capital requirements subsidies will create more bureaucracy when less is needed and reduce much needed revenue that move the system forward.
19
I almost put in comment then I noticed how similar mine was to yours. We need to offer assistance to those who need help paying for the fares but reducing the price of the fare by offering discounted fare cards is not the way to go.
3
I wish there was a program to pair people who don't use the subway (like me, I am lucky enough to walk to work) with those who must use it. If you put me in touch with Leslie Wells, I'd love to help her out.
5
This is such a bettter idea than that boondoggle of a trolley.
10
Why not both?
As for the trolley, it might not be the best solution, but at least some people are talking about the need to expand the mass transit system in this city. Personally, I'd prefer to see straightening of bus routes to limit turns, introduce more SBS-style service to speed boarding, and have more enforceable bus lanes.
As for the trolley, it might not be the best solution, but at least some people are talking about the need to expand the mass transit system in this city. Personally, I'd prefer to see straightening of bus routes to limit turns, introduce more SBS-style service to speed boarding, and have more enforceable bus lanes.
5
Yes, the subway and mass transit is TOO much for ALL of us. I easily remember 60 cent fares in the early 80s. We should demand the MTA lower (or freeze) fares for everyone. We have the most costly region in the nation. all this lies solely on the government.
Where do we draw the line? We already have subsidized (or free) housing for all who demand it; medical, food stamps, day care, now free mental health, etc etc .... all this costs money and lots of it. and who gets stuck with the bills is everyone else who doesnt demand a hand out.
Enough. If the advocates cannot change why NY is double/3x the costs of living in a similar city like Chicago, then the only answer is for the less fortunate to find a less costly living area. We the rest cannot afford to continue to subsidize select interests who demand yet more and more. There is a big country out there will affordable housing and living costs.