Duet

Nov 12, 2016 · 82 comments
John Heidelberger (Lakewood Nj)
All the Rugby players I contacted have never heard of the term "noside" at the end of the match. It makes no sense and the term does not appear anywhere in the rules/laws.
Heidi Aycock (Chapel Hill, NC)
Is there a place to talk about general trends in NY Times Puzzles? I have some questions about some trends that I don't understand. (And it's not the center of Saturday's puzzle, though it is related.)
Skeptical1 (new york ny)
SECOND,NDMENT
Answer to "precept about idol worship"
15D
I still don't get it
Help
Leapfinger (Durham, NC)
Source: "The Ten ,ndments", a 1956 movie starring Charlton Heston as Moses, Yul Brynner as Pharaoh, and Edward G Robinson as the prophet Dathan.

If you believe Mel Brooks, there were originally 3 tablets and 15 ,ndments, but Moses had an oopsy climbing down Mt Sinai.
John (Chicago)
Martin (California)
If Deb hadn't provided a "break glass in case of ..." link, I'd be with you, John. But if people insist on posting without reading either Deb's column, or any other comments, I say we feed 'em to Leapy.
John (Chicago)
COMETS:

Monday evening will bring us the largest Supermoon since 1948 (that was the year Dewey beat Truman). A Supermoon occurs when a Full Moon coincides with the Moon's closest approach to Earth. A Supermoon is when the center of the Moon is less than 223,694 miles from the center of Earth. On Monday the closest distance will be 221,524 miles.

I look forward to Monday’s comments.
Viv (Jerusalem, Israel)
Rich, are you there? At the time I usually say Hi, I was on a long Skype conversation with my daughter in Massachusetts and her family on the eve of her (re)marriage - her two Israeli sisters are there. I was not up to making that trip again - the trip for my granddaughter's wedding in September took all the strength I had left after my fall. So it's long distance. They will set up Skype with me during the wedding tomorrow. Great excitement all around.

I loved today's puzzle. Similar experience to that reported by others - wondering about the middle square, and a great AHA when it came to me.

Those strawberries look so mouthwatering.... I think I'll have a grape. Chilled ripe fruit really floats my boat, or whatever that saying is.
CS (Providence, RI)
Mazel tov Viv! I'M GLAD you have Skype.
Rich in Atlanta (Decatur, Georgia)
Hi Viv,

Sorry - I was out most of the day. I came back and posted a reply a little while ago and then it finally dawned on me that I'd missed my opportunity.

Hope you're feeling better.
Deadline (New York City)
Sorry you're not up to the trip for this wedding, but delighted that you have Skype. How nice that you will be able to participate long distance.

Feel better.
Petaltown (Petaluma)
Tricky fun.
hepcat8 (jive5)
Neither this puzzle nor Friday's was fun for me. I had to do too many checks and look-ups, since the tricky clues and unknown names made it difficult to get enough crosses to be able to choose among several possibles on the long answers. I ended up with AMEN instead of COMMA, which shows my mind isn't with it the past few days. I knew the only Amendment that might concern idol worship is the First, but I fixated on the Amen being a religious term and didn't notice that the answer already had an N before the D.

On Friday, I had no problem with DESERTS vs DESSERTS because one of my favorite places, Mount Desert in Maine, also has the accent on the second syllable. But I did find a small nit to pick in that, to my mind, "headlines" and "head lines" are two different things, and the clue for EEG should have used the separated version.
Jimbo57 (Oceanside NY)
Got to the puzzle early for a Saturday (for me, anyway). AWED by the gimmick introduced by Mr. Kahn. After a wonderfully challenging solve, I literally had the grid filled except for the center square. Of course, I knew that 33A had a COMMA, and it was a great head-smack moment when I put it together with 15D. Bravo! Didn't know 1A; thank goodness for the crosses.

Power trio Cream, led by Eric Clapton, with "I'M So GLAD" from 1966:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3GIQ86eu6c
Johanna (Ohio)
I hereby dub David Kahn the "Comma Chameleon." And Steve I, your comment hereby goes down in the history books!

I couldn't decide if "," one way and "COMMA" the other was confusing or brilliant. I ended thinking *both.*

Love a theme on a Saturday, thank you, David Kahn ... AKA The Prince of Punctuation."
Buffy Crone (AZ)
Two early entries got me in trouble until the very end. I had OPERAS where OPUSES belonged (and I couldn't figure out what it meant even after I changed it! Then aha: the plural of OPUS). Also originally put AN EDIT as my answer for "Dub or rub"!
Heidi Reich (NYC)
Actually, opera IS the plural of opus -- the Latin plural, anyway.

Here are more of those: http://mentalfloss.com/article/50149/9-extremely-pretentious-latin-and-g...
Wags (Colorado)
Had to get 1A with the crosses. When I lived in DC years ago someone talked me into playing on a newly formed rugby team. In all the games I was in, I never figured out what was going on. I just followed everyone else. Very complicated rules.
Confused (New York)
Can someone please explain to me how SEX SCENE is part of a blue book?
Buffy Crone (AZ)
This might be a generational issue. In the olden days, before the internet, racy or erotic films and books were referred to as "blue." No idea why.
John (Chicago)
The clue was marked with a “?” so it was not a straight-forward.

According to Dictionary.Com a slang definition for “blue” is, among other things: “Lewd; rude; suggestive; dirty.” “The term covers the range from obscene to slightly risque´.

Hence.
Leapfinger (Durham, NC)
Based on Blue Laws, so named not because they were printed on blue paper, but in relation to term 'bluestocking'.

Why 'bluestocking'? That part I don't know.
Martin (California)
The first comment on the Sunday acrostic is "did anybody notice 'desserts' was misspelled yesterday?"
John (Chicago)
I just noticed.
CS (Providence, RI)
I can take it no longer.
Leapfinger (Durham, NC)
Have some pie, CS.
polymath (British Columbia)
Loved this one. First of all, it's always great to see a David J. Kahn puzzle again. Then it was a nice tough Saturday challenge. And last but not least, there was the curious issue of that center square, which was impossible to fill. Aha! What a nice aha! moment that was. Reminds me of that very old, otherwise normal, Sunday puzzle whose central long across entry was clue as "Jules Verne work" (23 squares) and whose first letter was the middle of the down word clued as "Water" (3 squares).

Veddy Brrrritish today; I wonder if Mr. Kahn has been spending time on the other side of the pond. Did not know NO SIDE, or OSH, or the word DERN, or especially ENES; ANT before MGM.

Once again: Bravo!
Deadline (New York City)
poly, a link, please, to the puzzle you mention?

Or, if it's too old for that, a clue where I should start looking for it?

Please?
polymath (British Columbia)
DL — Sorry, I don't know when that puzzle ran. But I will search for it and will let you know if I come up with anything.
Deadline (New York City)
Thanks, poly.

Was it the NYT, or somewhere else?
Martin (California)
Righteous indignation for the misspelling of "desserts" continue to be posted.

Some late Leapyisms make revisiting worthwhile.
Lewis (Asheville, NC)
I love the single COMMA rebus; it is unusual to have the letters mean one thing one way and another thing the other way, and having it only once really accents how special it is.

I had trouble in the NW, but overall, this steadily filled in, sometimes with aha's, other times in swaths. The tricky and clever cluing overcame (I almost used the T word) any weakness in the fill for me. The cluing and the triumph over it gave me smiles, which have been far and few between this week. Thank you for this, David!
RY (Forgotten Borough)
Superb challenge.
John (Chicago)
Fred Ebb (1928 – 2004) was an American musical theatre lyricist who had many successful collaborations with composer John Kander. The Kander and Ebb team frequently wrote for such performers as Liza Minnelli and Chita Rivera.

The work that made them famous was Cabaret which opened in November 50 years ago. The NYT noted in its obituary that whilte Cabaret won eight Tonys, including best composer and best lyricist, it was far from the only success Ebb tasted. Ebb and Kander’s work on Woman of the Year (1981) and Kiss of the Spider Woman ((1993) also won Tonys for best score, while film versions of Cabaret (1972) and Chicago (2002) were both nominated for Best Picture Oscars and Chicago won.

In 1976, Kander and Ebb worked with Minnelli and Martin Scorsese twice: first, in the film New York, New York, which had them write what is perhaps their best-known song, the title track and, again in The Act, a musical about a fictional nightclub act.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFLiDrYPE1w
Martin (California)
I gave meta-credit for ENES Kanter.
John (Chicago)
Martin, that was in my subconscious mind.
J Epstein (Brooklyn)
If I had looked at the credit and seen David Kahn's name, I would have put on my helmet.

As it was, I stumbled around like a tosspot for a while, with "NEWYORKONMYMIND" and (I guessed it would be a Roman numeral up top?)COMMANDMENT providing a contradictory crossing - cognitive dissonance, stall, flail, work it from the crossings, FLASH!

That flash is a nice feeling.

"Comma chameleon" - comment of the year!
Beejay (San Francisco)
Similar solve to others, getting started in the SE, moving west and then up. The combination of RAY, ORC, and USA got me going. Enjoyed the clue for PLAN A and was sure it couldn't be EDENIC, but put it in anyway.

Finally decided it had to be NEW YORK NEW YORK and left the middle square empty. Took me to the end to see the COMMA to make COMMANDMENT. Good one! Saw through most of the tricky clues except for that connotation of blue, not for the first time, alas. So X marked the final spot. Fine puzzle.
fadedredhead (Wis)
The comma was awesome!!
Michael Brothers (Boone, Iowa)
I really like Saturday puzzles for the challenge. This was a particularly tough puzzle with enough twists for it to be truly engaging. I like it when I make the first run through the clues and cannot enter a single answer with confidence.
Jim G (Greenwich)
Exactly how I feel. I went through this and initially had almost nothing first time though. Such a great feeling to finish a puzzle that starts like that.
Suzy M. (Higganum CT)
Loved this one, even though it reminded me of what drives me crazy about the New Yorker. Too, many, COMMAs!! And some over-long articles. The writers over there must be paid by the character. Some great covers, though...
polymath (British Columbia)
"The writers over there must be paid by the character."

Maybe that's why their fiction pieces have so many people in each one?
archaeoprof (Jupiter, FL)
This is one DERN good puzzle. At first I tried to bring the "national" CHAMPIONS to the White House. 15D made me recall a wedding where the minister said that "be fruitful and multiply" is the one COMMANDMENT that the whole human race has always enthusiastically obeyed.
Mean Old Lady (Conway, Arkansas)
There for a while I had the Rap person, the NBA person, the Code part, and the Newport rival (other Jazz Fests?) all bobbling around in my head, plus the nonsensical 15D/33A spare part. Heart? Hook? I knew it had to be something in common.....

Pretty cute.

Now for the Saturday Stumper....or maybe I'll skip that and try to lighten my mood by mopping our New Floor!!! and running loads of dishes and glassware before putting everything back into the buffet and china cabinets (dust everywhere)....
Deadline (New York City)
Actually, MOL, if memory serves from the days when I regularly attended, the old Newport Jazz Festival did morph into the Kool Jazz Festival (then something else that I forget). So although the cigarette brands were definitely rivals, their festivals were successive.

Aaaah, how I loved seeing Mel Torme in Carnegie Hall every year.
twoberry (Vero Beach, FL)
New York Hook New York? Second JNDMENT? What? (Kidding)
Deadline (New York City)
My wheelhouse! At last!

Slow start, with little or nothing across the north. But RAY showed me that 37D had to be KEY something and opened up SE. The RK ending at 33A gave me the entry, but oooh! An extra square! Aha! No question mark in my mind as to what was going on.

Pretty much smooth sailing after that.

Exception was 3D. I know that sports teams that win their various tournaments get to go to the White House, but how to tell which sport was being touted? I had the CHAMPS part (indeed all of the south), plus NEW YORK. Very odd. Was there some sort of wordplay involving some kind of BAWL CHAMPS? (I also didn't know that Maine had anything notable in whatever sport is referred to in 29A.)

I did need some crosses to remember which number ,NDMENT would fit the clue for 15D, but of course I liked it anyway.

Another stumbling block, but of my own making, was 16A. From the clue, I leapt to the conclusion that the entry was going to be something techie that I wouldn't know. What a relief to find it was just a plain old REPORT GENERATOR, something I'd used practically daily--well, weekly--before my semi-retirement.

I thought the plural of OPUS was OPERA. I did think of DURN, but DERN? C'mon. And ENES Kanter? (Or Kanter ENES?) OTOH, surprise, guys! I knew RIDA. (From XWPs, of course.)

Nice clues for GROG, PLAN A, KOOL, SEX SCENE, others.

Hooray for punctuation!
CS (Providence, RI)
Loved it. Resisted the single rebus concept because it is a themeless Saturday, but then realized that one square does not invalidate its 'themelessness'. Had a lot of blanks until I got SEX SCENE right off the bat which is humiliating. Glad that it didn't cross with a more relevant ",NDMENT"! 'Darted' before DODGED. And because I know nothing about rugby but have sports terms rattling around in my brain, I tried onSIDE before NOSIDE. I'M not GLAD it's over.
Gordon (Brooklyn)
That was a satisfying solve, but it raised a question that one of you fine folks will be able to answer... How rare is it to have only one rebus in a puzzle? I don't recall seeing such a thing before.
J Epstein (Brooklyn)
Me neither. Made for a cool surprise!
Deadline (New York City)
Wasn't there a puzzle just recently where there was a single square that contained a numeral?
Deborah (Mississauga, On)
A slow solve, but discovering the COMMA in the middle was fun. Local in season strawberries with a little balsamic vinegar - delicious. California berries are okay for a rare treat in the winter, but nearly as good as freshly picked.
Deborah (Mississauga, On)
That should be NOT nearly as good as freshly picked.
Richard (Austin, Texas)
My, my, who would have guessed a lowly little comma could be so crucial?

I put this one down last night still struggling with 1A End of a match...
The rest fell in place this morning with the usual aha moments coming after my first cup of coffee, which I must admit, I worship as manna from heaven. Did I just sin?
Brutus (Berkeley, NJ)
I hope my penance for breaking the SECOND COMMANDMENT is not too severe as that's exactly what happened today. I had all the 15'ers. That vertical 13'er in the middle made mince meat of my solve. It became APPARENT that sussing out the razzle dazzle in that middle square wasn't gonna happen. I left it blank...I think this is from The Blackboard Jungle; Bill Haley and the COMETS had the TOP HATless crowd swingin'.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BISRYBh_HhE
Rich in Atlanta (Decatur, Georgia)
Bru, I'm pretty sure that's not from the Blackboard Jungle.

I think it's from the film Rock Around the Clock.
suejean (Harrogate)
Whatever, it made me smile, and I needed that.
Deadline (New York City)
Definitely not from "Blackboard Jungle."

I didn't know there was a film called "Rock Around the Clock." My memory thinks that the song of that name *was* from "Blackboard Jungle."
Rich in Atlanta (Decatur, Georgia)
That was fun. I got off to a slow start - a couple of likely guesses in the north, but a bit more in the south so I started down there. I knew the film at 47d immediately and it only took a moment to recall the director. That helped. Got a few things worked about down there before I went back to look at 33a. I actually did know RIDA and had NYET and AMYS so it didn't take long for that to dawn on me. It was only after I started to fill it in that I noticed that it didn't fit. I did guess that it was a comma and wondered what kind of phrase was going to work for the long down.

And then shortly after that it all started flowing smoothly. The two long downs to the side appeared and that got me going in the north. Some pauses after that but I never really came to a complete halt. And then just a wonderful 'aha' moment when I finally saw 15d. All those nice long answers really made this a terrific puzzle.

On the other hand, ENE / ENES kind of jumped out at me after the fact (I got ENES entirely from crosses so never noticed it while I was solving). Also got ASRED completely from crosses. I looked up the clue history and it's pretty much been beets and roses previously. Everybody who's ever heard anyone say 'AS RED as a strawberry' please raise your hand. That's what I thought.

I don't mind junky stuff in an otherwise nice puzzle - those just kind of stuck out like a... (hmmm, must be an alternative to a sore thumb - Will?)
Deadline (New York City)
I almost choked on my strawberry.

I had AS??D and thought for one horrible moment that the entry was going to be "ASEED." I mean, we've all been subjected to an "A-" attachment to perfectly good words in XWPs, and strawberries do have all those little seeds, and ...

Well, at least I was wrong. Whew!
Paul (Virginia)
A ,nd performance from Mr. Kahn. Not TOO BAD. I was trying to put Paul Lynde in that center square.

Telephone number before HOME PHONE NUMBER, although cell phone number is more frequently requested.
Deadline (New York City)
I am glad to see that there is at least a tiny bit of recognition that some of us prefer our land lines--you know, the ones without all the static and echoes and fading in and out.

But I'm still smarting from Jeff Chen's sneer. Even if I did want to use my cellphone exclusively, including at home, it would still be my HOME PHONE NUMBER.
Mean Old Lady (Conway, Arkansas)
They can ask all they want for the cell numbers; we won't give it to them, because then they'd try to use it! We have a land line, and we can forward calls to a cell when we're out. But we refuse to carry our cell phones around with us all day. (DHubby's cell has a voicemail message: "Please call our land line at...")
suejean (Harrogate)
I have a "pay as you go" mobile which I have to remember to use every 6 months or I'll lose the money on it.
mymymimi (Paris, France)
fun
suejean (Harrogate)
Although I found this very difficult, I was delighted with the mini theme. And yet another puzzle with long answers, much harder than yesterday's as they should be. I didn't know that SUPER BOWL CHAMPS going to the White House was a tradition, but that was easish to get from the crosses.

At first I wondered if there was some other song starting with NEW YORK, so confess to finally googling that so noticed the comma. Then I was trying to think of a good fill for the crossing with the punctuation mark; it took a while, but a great AHA moment when I realized it was spelled out.

Thanks for a fun Saturday, David.
Martin (California)
Deb,

Watsonville strawberries are the best. Those in the picture are a bit early but one of the senior ikebana senseis is from Watsonville and her family farms them. God they're good. In the peak of the season adding sugar is counter-productive because they're sweeter than sugar. And with a perfume that's intoxicating.

Thanks for a reminder of what's coming next summer. Getting through a winter is easier if you have summer to look forward to.
Deadline (New York City)
I agree that those strawberries looked a bit "early."

But I can't imagine adding sugar to any strawberries unless they're being used in a recipe for something else or made into jam.

And for me, strawberries and other fruits are the only things that make it possible to get through summer as I look forward to autumn and winter.
Reedie1965 (AZ and OR)
Oregon strawberries don't travel well. They are sold only at roadside stands during a few weeks in early June. I managed to take some with me on the plane to AZ and introduced our neighbors to their delectable taste. https://instagram.com/p/4AYFa2HMC3/
Martin (California)
What's with the editing of these puzzles? Yesterday we were missing space for an S and today we have an extra. Come on, NYT!
John (Chicago)
Martin, I always enjoy a rebus.
Martin (California)
I like the subtlety of the meta-DP. It fits.
Liz B (Durham, NC)
Yes, this was a good workout. NEW YORK NEW YORK was pretty obvious, and I just left the extra square in the middle blank until I figured out what was going on--which was late in the solve. After a scattering of words throughout the grid, I mostly solved from the bottom up. HOME PHONE NUMBER was the first 15 to fill in, and things went along slowly from there. I didn't know NO SIDE and thought OPUSES was strange. The NE and the top half of 15D, with the COMMA, were my last fill. (I had RUNS instead of GETS INTO TROUBLE for a long time).
David Connell (Weston CT)
The punctuation square was no problem here, it was X that marked the spot - added 5 minutes to my time getting that crossing right.
Just deserts.
Kiki Rijkstra (Arizona)
Those strawberries are just desserts. The Gobi and the Sahara are just deserts!
David Connell (Weston CT)
I hope you are kidding, Kiki!
The Gobi and Sahara are 'just 'deserts,
but I got my ,just de'serts.

I am present to present a statement
that I object to the object of yesterday's confusion.

Sometimes two different words are spelled differently and pronounced differently ('desert = dry place vs. des'sert = too much sugar).

Sometimes two different words are spelled the same but pronounced differently ('desert = dry place vs. de'sert = thing deserved).

Sometimes two different words are spelled differently but pronounced the same (de'sert = thing deserved vs. des'sert = too much sugar).

The confusion produced by yesterday's clue is due to people thinking only two words are involved when there are three different words involved - two pronounced alike and two spelled alike. But that's all right. We'll all get through it. I will now absently absent myself and perhaps use my stereo console to console me.
Rich in Atlanta (Decatur, Georgia)
I was so hoping that we could leave all that behind.
steve l (Chestnut Ridge, NY)
In one direction, it's actually a COMMA. in the other direction, it's just the letters "COMMA". That's what you call a COMMA CHAMELEON.
Butch (Atlanta)
Yeah - stared at that wondering how the Second Amendment had anything to do with idols and how AME had anything to do with NY, NY. Very clever.
Chungclan (Cincinnati,OH)
Brilliant! I had forgotten what a great song it was!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmcA9LIIXWw
Deadline (New York City)
steve, you are my hero today.

Butch, you scare me with your Second Amendment thought. We punctuation nerds are decidedly nonviolent.