This article is written as if Saudi Arabia has catered to the United States. It's really quite the other way around. The article needed to emphasize how teh United State, as usual, is carrying out obedience to Saudi Arabia by getting over-involved in Yeman.
12
Why was this article written?
How do the authors know so much about what "American officials" think?
The answer is obvious.
President Obama savaged both Saudi Arabia and Israel in recent interviews. Mr. Obama is furious that Prince bin Salman opposes him publicly on the Iran deal, and that Saudi intelligence services are now cooperating with Israeli intelligence services to defend the Kingdom.
Obama is furious that Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu, who says the Iran deal was a lethal mistake, is willing to defend the Kingdom more than the US government is.
Therefore, reading between the lines, it is clear that this article was sourced by CIA and White House officials who want to sow distrust of Prince bin Salman inside the Saudi royal family so that they will move against him.
Obama has only three months left in office. This is his last shot at attacking Prince bin Salman. Susan Rice (who loathes Netanyahu) appears to have authorized these leaks of classified information to the NY Times.
As a long time supporter of both Israel and Saudi Arabia, President Hillary Clinton is likely to work with Republicans in the House and Senate to reverse or weaken the Iran deal. President Clinton will be inclined to be much more favorable to Israel and Saudi Arabia that Obama or Rice is.
Ex-President Obama and Susan Rice will have to watch from the sidelines as their effort to destabilize the royal family in Saudi Arabia fails.
How do the authors know so much about what "American officials" think?
The answer is obvious.
President Obama savaged both Saudi Arabia and Israel in recent interviews. Mr. Obama is furious that Prince bin Salman opposes him publicly on the Iran deal, and that Saudi intelligence services are now cooperating with Israeli intelligence services to defend the Kingdom.
Obama is furious that Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu, who says the Iran deal was a lethal mistake, is willing to defend the Kingdom more than the US government is.
Therefore, reading between the lines, it is clear that this article was sourced by CIA and White House officials who want to sow distrust of Prince bin Salman inside the Saudi royal family so that they will move against him.
Obama has only three months left in office. This is his last shot at attacking Prince bin Salman. Susan Rice (who loathes Netanyahu) appears to have authorized these leaks of classified information to the NY Times.
As a long time supporter of both Israel and Saudi Arabia, President Hillary Clinton is likely to work with Republicans in the House and Senate to reverse or weaken the Iran deal. President Clinton will be inclined to be much more favorable to Israel and Saudi Arabia that Obama or Rice is.
Ex-President Obama and Susan Rice will have to watch from the sidelines as their effort to destabilize the royal family in Saudi Arabia fails.
3
This guy may have all the money and power in his own country, but he BADLY lacks grey matter. That is why anything he does will be ham-handed, as suggested in the article.
Saudi Arabia is a one trick pony. All - and, I mean ALL - they can offer is oil.
NOTHING else!
They have NO other significant industry to speak of and neither do have ANYTHING significant to offer culturally either. If this guy wants to transform his country, he has to do much much more and has to do it over a long time.
Moreover, if the fundamentals of such a transformation are not addressed, it is HIGHLY unlikely that such a transformation can occur. The fundamentals lie in democracy because democracy ONLY can deliver a significant and sustainable change. Democracy ALSO means they they have to have secularism - and this will NEVER happen in the foreseeable future!
Hence, the west has to live with Saudi Arabia the way it is, more or less. They have already committed war crimes and like many other countries - such as Syria and Russia - they will get away with them, at least for now.
The only thing west can do is to be alert and make adjustments he best way they can, if a power struggle occurs as suspected in the article.
Saudi Arabia is a one trick pony. All - and, I mean ALL - they can offer is oil.
NOTHING else!
They have NO other significant industry to speak of and neither do have ANYTHING significant to offer culturally either. If this guy wants to transform his country, he has to do much much more and has to do it over a long time.
Moreover, if the fundamentals of such a transformation are not addressed, it is HIGHLY unlikely that such a transformation can occur. The fundamentals lie in democracy because democracy ONLY can deliver a significant and sustainable change. Democracy ALSO means they they have to have secularism - and this will NEVER happen in the foreseeable future!
Hence, the west has to live with Saudi Arabia the way it is, more or less. They have already committed war crimes and like many other countries - such as Syria and Russia - they will get away with them, at least for now.
The only thing west can do is to be alert and make adjustments he best way they can, if a power struggle occurs as suspected in the article.
10
What's with the red and white tablecloths those dudes wear? And don't tell me that the Crown Prince doesn't drink Crown Royal.
10
The Bearish buzz is that there will be a Saudi triggered 20% sell-off if Trump wins. This goes way back to Michael Moore telling us all in his documentary Fahrenheit 911 that the Saudi's own 10% of the NYSE. Cash holdings are way up reflecting this possibility. Senators just backed lawsuits for 9/11 and the vote was 99 to 1. If Hillary loses, Muslim extreme vetting is initiated, and the Saudi's sell; what do we do next? That's the article I would like to read; not this nonsense about buying Boats.
7
Without the protection services conceived by Dick Cheney, provided by U.S. arms manufacturers, and supported by U.S. military "advisors," the house of Saud would have ceased to exist long ago.
10
I'm here amazed by the critics. You basically put your opinions without having a big view in reality. We certainly know that there is no perfect country in the world, and I utterly insist that there is no democracy in the world also. Democracy can be split into not only one, two, three definition, but in fact can it be shaped by our own prejudices. If you believe that American is holding Democratic system then definitely you will gonna believe in Hitler when he voted by the majority Nazis. Is that really democracy When American people are struggling with poverty and barely affording medical care which is the most preliminary for any human in the earth. Is that really democracy when Hillary Clinton bypassed the American law so easily in front of citizens eyes for sharing confidential documents? Is it really democracy when Trump sneaked behind the scenes and got privileged from his connections in governmental figures and exempted for nearly $900 million where the poor people punished for pennies. Saudi Arabia is too religious? yes and too more conservative, but we're not alone, have a look into the southern America when it overwhelmed by KKK and other fundamentalists. I don't necessarily defend my country regime, but I couldn't figure out how these comments can really been convincing when it stands in a stark contrast to the reality. I admittedly like America so much, but that doesn't mean I really convinced that it support democracy system. I'm totally stunned.
5
I am an atheist. Plus, I'm sort of a wino. How long would I retain my head in Saudi Arabia?
10
Hassan, two wrongs don't make a right.
I thought the NY Times article was about the deputy crown prince, and not about any false equivalency with Secretary Clinton, or Mr. Trump.
A nice, but quite ineffective post, Hassan. If you "like America" you owe it to yourself, if not to others, to be more logical.
Peace and cheers regardless. This too shall pass!
I thought the NY Times article was about the deputy crown prince, and not about any false equivalency with Secretary Clinton, or Mr. Trump.
A nice, but quite ineffective post, Hassan. If you "like America" you owe it to yourself, if not to others, to be more logical.
Peace and cheers regardless. This too shall pass!
5
Peace and cheers!
2
Are women allowed to drive over there, yet? Do they still lash women for the crime of being raped by a man? Why are these people our allies, again? I think I prefer the Ruskies. No, I *know* I prefer them...
16
"Saudi Arabia is widely accused of having one of the worst human rights records in the world..." Wikipedia
15
Homosexual? Capital crime over there...how's that grab you, New York? Ouch...
16
Saudi Arabia is ISIS/Daesh with the official ability and right to sell Oil in international markets.
That is the only difference, actually.
That is the only difference, actually.
11
These are not good people. Yet, Hillary Clinton is ready, willing and able to accept their repetitive "contributions" to the Clinton Foundation. What does that say to you Democrats, liberals and progressives?
12
Wrong reading by the NYT. The brain in that royal group right now is in fact Muhammad Bin Nayef, the current crown prince, and nephew of King Salman. The king's son, in his first exposure to world politics, wants to show off. And so he was given some leeway.
He (the deputy crown prince) has already shown his incompetence, most visibly in managing the war with Yemeni's former regime and the Houthi's. Even when Saudi Arabia had allies with vast military experience he drove them out by his need to be "the decider."
Whatever the son manages to screw up, the older nephew follows up fire extinguishing and first aid. Yemen was not a major issue of concern, and he was allowed to continue.
He (the deputy crown prince) has already shown his incompetence, most visibly in managing the war with Yemeni's former regime and the Houthi's. Even when Saudi Arabia had allies with vast military experience he drove them out by his need to be "the decider."
Whatever the son manages to screw up, the older nephew follows up fire extinguishing and first aid. Yemen was not a major issue of concern, and he was allowed to continue.
7
If I were king, America's military would leave the Middle East, tomorrow...
13
We should wash our hands of the Saudi's we don't need their dirty oil
15
Its a shame that a Prince who is asking his people to frugal and spent millions on his life style, abolish the Kingdom and sent King and Princes and Princess to wash dishes in USA and go for democracy. These Kings and Princes have spent trillions of Dollars at whims and God is teaching them a lesson as Allah can give wealth and take it back. Time is come as what happened to President of Iraq, Col Gaddafi of Libya, Shah of Iran and Mubrak of Egypt. Change will come peacefully or their a revolution.
10
What is needed is for the new "prince" to stop the world wide support of Wahhabism, the religious under pinning of radical Islamic Terrorism. It is a great thing that we can now sue the Saudi's for their activity is creating some of the world's greatest terrorists and force them to take responsibility for their deeds and culture.
Maybe the relatives of the victims of 911 can seize his boat for just compensation for their losses. Otherwise he will just need to leave it in some Saudi harbor.
Maybe the relatives of the victims of 911 can seize his boat for just compensation for their losses. Otherwise he will just need to leave it in some Saudi harbor.
6
Hmm, this is the way a dictator anointed at birth behaves. His country, his oil, his money. What part of that are we having difficulty with? Why?
Before we are critical, we should take a look at what we are about to do right here.
I can imagine a Saudi newspaper writing something similar about the dauphins we have had (Bush Jr.) and are about to have (the Trump).
Kalidan
Before we are critical, we should take a look at what we are about to do right here.
I can imagine a Saudi newspaper writing something similar about the dauphins we have had (Bush Jr.) and are about to have (the Trump).
Kalidan
5
WWMD...figure it out ...
1
It seems that Prince bin Nayef and Prince bin Salman were hard to reach in some of their trips. I hope American agencies and the Department of Defense do not look for people in compounds located an hour's drive north of Algiers, as the article refers, for it would be somehow difficult to find them in underwater residences.
7
This is yet another example of what happens when a ridiculous amount of wealth is irrationally concentrated within a single family, dynasty, monarchy, or whatever. I suppose we will be living with such obscenities for as long as there are enough armed men willing to earn a living by shielding the insatiable greed of the wealthy from the desperate need of the less fortunate.
9
Forever, then...no shortage of people willing to sell their souls for a mess of pottage.
6
What's "royal" about a selfish family that dominates an authoritarian state? By that criterion, our State Department should be calling Kim Jong Un "His Majesty."
8
Watch Syriana. When fiction foresees reality.
3
And The Prophet said, "The Fire (of Hell) complained saying: 'I am the dwelling of the arrogant and the tyrants'." The US taxpayers should send Salam some marshmallows, not military equipment and support.
4
While this fool is cutting everyone else's gravy, he buys himself a $500 million yacht.
He must have a bad case of death wish.
He must have a bad case of death wish.
8
Ah, the hypocrisy of Hillary supporters.
These same people are denouncing the Saudi prince as corrupt, out of touch with citizens, and even - (gasp) - hypocritical, because he amassed and spent $ 500 mil.
What is this invisible, hypocritical cut-off ? Apparently, $ 500 mil. is not OK but $ 30 mil. Is OK -- because that is how much Hillary has amassed in "public service."
Hypocrisy much ? No, laughing stock of the world.
These same people are denouncing the Saudi prince as corrupt, out of touch with citizens, and even - (gasp) - hypocritical, because he amassed and spent $ 500 mil.
What is this invisible, hypocritical cut-off ? Apparently, $ 500 mil. is not OK but $ 30 mil. Is OK -- because that is how much Hillary has amassed in "public service."
Hypocrisy much ? No, laughing stock of the world.
7
The previous young modernizing Arab leader to be displayed upon the world's stage, greeted with moderate but skeptical hope, gave us the Syrian Civil War.
2
"Other are annoyed by the media cell he created inside the royal court to promote his initiatives, both foreign and domestic."
Really guys? And people say that you are the last bastion of good English on the internet...
Really guys? And people say that you are the last bastion of good English on the internet...
1
Looking at Saudi Arabia I am reminded of the Romanovs.
It is just a matter of time before the whole dynasty is swept away.
Any ruler who has $ 500,000,000 sitting around in "Fun Money"
and uses it to buy a boat on a whim
is out of touch with the common people of his nation.
It is just a matter of time before the whole dynasty is swept away.
Any ruler who has $ 500,000,000 sitting around in "Fun Money"
and uses it to buy a boat on a whim
is out of touch with the common people of his nation.
18
A cogent essay on the need to replace the extraction industries and delete their power.
If these are allies...
If these are allies...
2
The mantra for Saudi Arabia, repeated here once again, is that it needs to cease relying on oil as the mainstay of its economy, and diversify. Diversify to what? It's a desert with next to no water. A tourist destination in a country dominated by Wahhabi Muslimism, the most restrictive and reactionary of Islamic sects? As it is, manual laborers need to be imported from other Middle Eastern countries, because the members of the Saudi family won't dirty their hands with actual work.
If oil ever ceases to be the major source of the world's energy needs, Saudi Arabia will sink back into the sand. Good riddance.
If oil ever ceases to be the major source of the world's energy needs, Saudi Arabia will sink back into the sand. Good riddance.
7
The Vacation in the south of France where Prince bought the $550 Million yacht is probably the same where his father went there with an entourage of 1000 people. This is a great example of Saudi hypocrisy that for themselves they choose South of France for vacationing and buying $550 million Yachats and for poor Muslims in third world countries they promote Jihad and death in the name of Allah. While the so called 'infidels' of west are striving for human equality (be it gender, sex, religion), these so called 'custodian of two holy Mosques' are turning the world into a personal heaven for them and an eternal hell for everyone else. The sooner these morons disappear from the face of the earth the better the world will be!
20
Well put, thank you.
3
As an American, I feel so fortunate that our rich oligarchs are so socially conscious that they donate all their money to the poor.
1
Why exactly do we give this country money?
9
Do we give the Saudis money?
When our government arranges arms deals with them it is a matter of allowing them to spend their money buying 'American arms, not in our giving them the cash for the deal.
When our government arranges arms deals with them it is a matter of allowing them to spend their money buying 'American arms, not in our giving them the cash for the deal.
1
Can anybody make a serious argument that people of this ilk are anything more than human waste? Another sickening story about an absolutely sickening person. This is neither religious nor cultural criticism it is craven parasitism completely independent of both. The intersection of a Saudi Prince and a Russian oligarch in the south of France is testament to that. You are only criminal if the amounts are petty and you are poor and probably black. If you walk around with a license to ignorantly waste billions and kill millions you are a "person of substance". Really?
14
A terrifying profile.
10
Shocking how they think that these costumes and the headgear, right out of the 8th century, are cool.
4
Saudi Arabia - far from being anything close to a 'democracy' is a theologically run monarchy.
The 'royals' the Sauds have run the place like it's their own paypen - and, to them, it - and everything in it, is.
THis article is nothing more than putting niceties on the face of dangerous, ruthless ...people - and I use the word VERY loosely.
They also have been financing the spread of their form of Islam - Wahhabism, to be more accurate, since the 70's/80's, and they notoriously were involved with helping to finance the 9/11 attacks.
These 'friends' would no sooner cut our heads off, as they do to MANY of their own.
Their dangerous, and to continue to play 'nice' - either through words, or actions, can only lead to more danger ahead.
History is to be learned from, actions, and things which motivate a person never change.
ONe can take one out of the desert, let's say, and throw them in Eton, or Cambridge. The result? Just a MORE educated, MORE dangerous creature than you had, before.
These 'fun-loving', luxury-buying ...people', ultimately DON'T have anyone's interest other than their own.
The 'royals' the Sauds have run the place like it's their own paypen - and, to them, it - and everything in it, is.
THis article is nothing more than putting niceties on the face of dangerous, ruthless ...people - and I use the word VERY loosely.
They also have been financing the spread of their form of Islam - Wahhabism, to be more accurate, since the 70's/80's, and they notoriously were involved with helping to finance the 9/11 attacks.
These 'friends' would no sooner cut our heads off, as they do to MANY of their own.
Their dangerous, and to continue to play 'nice' - either through words, or actions, can only lead to more danger ahead.
History is to be learned from, actions, and things which motivate a person never change.
ONe can take one out of the desert, let's say, and throw them in Eton, or Cambridge. The result? Just a MORE educated, MORE dangerous creature than you had, before.
These 'fun-loving', luxury-buying ...people', ultimately DON'T have anyone's interest other than their own.
9
At the time of Lawrence, the principal Saudi Princes were austere Homeric Heroes, flawed but magnificent warriors, bound together by the blood oaths between kith and kin to free themselves in battle from the corrupt Ottoman yoke — or die in the attempt.
Anyway, that's what I thought at the time, more than half a century ago, when as a young romantic boy I first read The Seven Pillars of Wisdom, which in my opinion still has the greatest and most moving dedication ever written in any book in the English language.
Now, the Sons of the Desert have deserted the sun. Instead of tents that open onto an unending sea of stifling sand, the erstwhile nomads chill out in endess air-conditioned yachts.
They have acquired all the vices of Western civilisation and none of the virtues.
Their endtime has come.
Anyway, that's what I thought at the time, more than half a century ago, when as a young romantic boy I first read The Seven Pillars of Wisdom, which in my opinion still has the greatest and most moving dedication ever written in any book in the English language.
Now, the Sons of the Desert have deserted the sun. Instead of tents that open onto an unending sea of stifling sand, the erstwhile nomads chill out in endess air-conditioned yachts.
They have acquired all the vices of Western civilisation and none of the virtues.
Their endtime has come.
19
After reading this i feel whether these happenings in the land of Prophet Mohamed have got any relevance or conformity to his teachings. Would he approve of the way we live and behave ?
9
With fighting going on in Yemen, Syria,and Iraq, you'd expect Saudia Arabia to be a big contributor to the people suffering there. Oh wait, Saudi Arabia is an ally of the USA - let the States shell out money to these areas of the world being devastated by wars!
9
Wow the purchase of the boat reminds of the scene in the movie Bugys when Warren Beatty playing the character role sees a house in Beverly Hills he must have. Pulls out his wallet and it's his. The only difference between these 2 gangsters is Bugsy didn't have an emissary taking care of his business.
7
I wondered all these 4 decades after being fascinated by USA. I had questions in my mind not like MOSCOW ON THE HUDSON in a movie, but some logical and some moral about the way we want to be.
1. Communism was bad and the west built a division. Russia was our enemy by creed of communistic principles.
2. The paradox was China with whom we built wonderful relations of trades for our prosperity of cheap goods during 80s and 90s. Thus communism was not the enemy.
3. We talked about poverty in the world but never paid attention to Africa since the oil made the Kings and we bowed to them. We motivated monarchy due to our greed of immediate gratification in our greed.
4. The long term policies of FUTURE was never there since we started firefighting on terrorism. Now communism is gone but Islam became an issue.
5. We have forgotten our real strength of building a robust future by our God given astuteness in Science & Tech of innovation and novelty which has only landed in moon as lunatics in futuristic thinking.
6. As the world and the USA as my father nation that I love, deep within my heart, I long for a change since it is inevitable.
7. I am certain that it is only US AS IN USA can bring a bright future for our children.
8. Let us forget about the Kings & Princes, like communism or Islam. None are bad worse than our greed. Let us not hype but let us think.
1. Communism was bad and the west built a division. Russia was our enemy by creed of communistic principles.
2. The paradox was China with whom we built wonderful relations of trades for our prosperity of cheap goods during 80s and 90s. Thus communism was not the enemy.
3. We talked about poverty in the world but never paid attention to Africa since the oil made the Kings and we bowed to them. We motivated monarchy due to our greed of immediate gratification in our greed.
4. The long term policies of FUTURE was never there since we started firefighting on terrorism. Now communism is gone but Islam became an issue.
5. We have forgotten our real strength of building a robust future by our God given astuteness in Science & Tech of innovation and novelty which has only landed in moon as lunatics in futuristic thinking.
6. As the world and the USA as my father nation that I love, deep within my heart, I long for a change since it is inevitable.
7. I am certain that it is only US AS IN USA can bring a bright future for our children.
8. Let us forget about the Kings & Princes, like communism or Islam. None are bad worse than our greed. Let us not hype but let us think.
3
theocracy is a lot worse than greed. Daesh is that bad!
1
I can't help but wonder if their headwear limits the vision of Saudi men.
8
Indeed the Saud family wants to make ARAMCO a public company. The reason is self preservation. They know they could get booted out of the Arab lands any day. The bearer shares (of ARAMCO) will be held in anonymous accounts and the PRINCES will have settled in America. This is yet another CIA (American Government) conspiracy against the people of the land of the Prophet. The America Government is making sure that those who do GOOD (for America), live WELL, in the HEREAFTER (in a restricted sense: meaning after they get booted out).
1
Only oil makes House of Saud relevant ...If the west can progress without it, that side of the world is up for grabs They will be begging for Israeli agricultural advancements to survive
6
The House of Saud is now, and has always been, an organized criminal enterprise, backed up by US muscle.
10
Prince Salman is now in charge? Yuk.
I wouldn't buy a used Yacht from that guy.
I wouldn't buy a used Yacht from that guy.
1
Bin Salman's economic policies are simplistic and naive. He has already, single-handedly jeopardized, for years to come, the fragile resource-based balancing act that masquerades as an economy in Saudi Arabia. His descent may be more rapid than his ascent.
4
This article seems to justify our working with Iran on the nuke issue. They're going to be needed as a stabilizing influence in the region. The more countries we can influence the better off the region will be. Our focus should be on stability now. Getting women the right to drive as well as other freedoms we enjoy in America shouldn't be at the top of our list. Civil rights are less than a pipe dream if a country is in chaos.
4
Too bad America doesn't give voice to our younger citizens, specifically the millennials. As evidence, we have an election between two people at or close to 70, both deeply mistrusted by the population. One will take the office of president with no mandate with this important segment of our country.
In the wake of this awful election, I look for the millennials to rise, out of the same frustrations we all feel. There is much to be done here at home. The two nominees offer little that isn't tied directly to their own selfish interests.
The Saud monarchy is hardly perfect. But this young prince seems to realize that and has an eye to the future. There is much here that is worth copying.
My generation, the baby boomers, has done little for future generations. In many ways, the selfishness and blind ambition of Trump and Clinton reflects this. The Millennials have much to lose, and more to gain, from the future direction of our country.
They have been abandoned in this election. Something tells me they won't wait for 2020 to take matters into their own hands and start to fix this situation.
In the wake of this awful election, I look for the millennials to rise, out of the same frustrations we all feel. There is much to be done here at home. The two nominees offer little that isn't tied directly to their own selfish interests.
The Saud monarchy is hardly perfect. But this young prince seems to realize that and has an eye to the future. There is much here that is worth copying.
My generation, the baby boomers, has done little for future generations. In many ways, the selfishness and blind ambition of Trump and Clinton reflects this. The Millennials have much to lose, and more to gain, from the future direction of our country.
They have been abandoned in this election. Something tells me they won't wait for 2020 to take matters into their own hands and start to fix this situation.
5
We should be promoting democracy, not royalty. What kills me is that we spend our treasure and blood to prop up these royals in order to maintain "stability" in the region. The hypocrisy of our foreign policy is so thick with excrement it give me nausea. Will the US ever stop using its military and economic power to extend the life of dictatorships and start using it to move countries into the democratic fold where the citizens govern and the press is free to report the truth? Naaa... not in my life time.
12
Steve congrats, you have hit the crux of the issue on the head.
2
Naaa… not in anybody's lifetime.
The Saudis are either directly or indirectly tied to the murder of US citizens on 9/11/2001. The Bush presidency is complicit in protecting a barbaric, murderous regime that has proven itself to be the enemy of this country.
We are now aiding their military campaign against civilians in Yemen. The elites of the US have no problem watching innocent women and children die from starvation, bombings and disease as long as they can take nickels from the bloodthirsty KSA. We should care that the Saudis bomb hospitals with bombs we manufactured with support from the US Air Force. Are USAF generals war criminals for supporting these systematic actions?
The NYT fails to properly frame the Saudi place in the world and its role as a progenitor of the crises in the Middle East. The Saudis and the Emirates created, armed and financially support ISIL and have turn Syria apart because they want to transport natural gas on their terms.
Americans at some point have to hold their politicians responsible for these reprehensible policies.
We are now aiding their military campaign against civilians in Yemen. The elites of the US have no problem watching innocent women and children die from starvation, bombings and disease as long as they can take nickels from the bloodthirsty KSA. We should care that the Saudis bomb hospitals with bombs we manufactured with support from the US Air Force. Are USAF generals war criminals for supporting these systematic actions?
The NYT fails to properly frame the Saudi place in the world and its role as a progenitor of the crises in the Middle East. The Saudis and the Emirates created, armed and financially support ISIL and have turn Syria apart because they want to transport natural gas on their terms.
Americans at some point have to hold their politicians responsible for these reprehensible policies.
10
I love the photo of Obama bowing to this young fool, just like he did to the old Saudi king. This new guy got so excited that he cut salaries and bought a new yacht.
5
Why the focus on President Obama only? Every U.S. president dating back to FDR in 1945--the list includes Eisenhower, Nixon, Reagan, and the two Bushes--has treated Saudi royalty in an overly cautious and deferential manner.
10
I've never seen any of them bow down and, if you noticed a recent photo of the Saudis when they met with the Chinese, they all took off their sunglasses. Not so for Obama. Once, we needed them. Now, tell them where they can go!
2
President Obama is just a nice guy who has a sense of innate class and knows when it is proper to follow time honored courtesies.
And thank God he doesn't have orange hair.
And thank God he doesn't have orange hair.
3
There have been some comments on the lack of rights of Saudi women.
I was watching an advert from New York State's 529 program where you can save money for a child's education. ALL the examples in the ad were girls. This was a bit strange since women outnumber men in our colleges and universities.
As a matter of fact I did open an account last year for a girl, my granddaughter. But it was not BECAUSE she was a girl, but because she was my grandchild.
The NYT is endorsing the new anti-male sexism which has become prevalent. The other alternative is the misogyny of Trump.
Do we really not know the middle way?
And for that matter, non-Saudi MEN have few rights in the kingdom. And they do not even have the NYT fighting for their rights...
I was watching an advert from New York State's 529 program where you can save money for a child's education. ALL the examples in the ad were girls. This was a bit strange since women outnumber men in our colleges and universities.
As a matter of fact I did open an account last year for a girl, my granddaughter. But it was not BECAUSE she was a girl, but because she was my grandchild.
The NYT is endorsing the new anti-male sexism which has become prevalent. The other alternative is the misogyny of Trump.
Do we really not know the middle way?
And for that matter, non-Saudi MEN have few rights in the kingdom. And they do not even have the NYT fighting for their rights...
4
Must the USA continue to have anything to do with this horrible, aggressive, murderous, repressive regime, one that makes Czarist Russia the height of enlightened, liberal, and pacific values in comparison?
If we are to be great by virtue of being good, we cannot support this kind of naked evil.
If we are to be great by virtue of being good, we cannot support this kind of naked evil.
8
The oil in Saudia Arabia cannot run out fast enough. Then the world might be a better places without Saudi money funding terrorism and promoting evil Wahabi doctrine.
4
It is not Wahabi doctrine that is evil, but the Saudi family usurping the lands of Arabia that are evil. I am mot a Arab but a Sunni Muslim, but I do respect the people of the land the Prophet.
Merg ber aulad Saud. The Saud family has brought humiliation on Muslim all over the world. And the family rules with secret CIA provide security, with French solders killing citizens in the Holy Cities. I pray for the Sons of Hejaz, to cleanse the land of this scourge.
3
No mention of furthering human rights in the Kingdom, yet wanting the world to see Saudi Arabia in a different and new light?
I need to get a Tesla sooner than later.
I need to get a Tesla sooner than later.
6
Some of you really need to expand your horizon. The world is more complex and interconnected that you seem to understand. Saudi Arabia isn't the big monster you seem to think it is. I have lived here five years and this place is far from perfect but the Saudi people and the country itself is evolving on its own pace. The investment the government is making and the vision for the future is outstanding. No country in the world invests more in education for its people and in particular the girls. By the way, Saudi women are in the workforce in many businesses and careers. I myself have had Saudi women working for our company whom I directly have managed. Yes, by our US standards the life of women in this country is difficult to understand. The whole culture and patterns of life are different than in the US or Europe. But this can be said for many cultures of the world. Who are we to say it is so wrong? Statements of slavery and abuse if they exist are rare exceptions and not the norm. Many Saudi women probably want things to open up, I think. However, the dark picture so many are making of Saudi Arabia's place in the world is in my view way off base. They are a strategic place in the Middle East and the center of Islam. That some bad people came from here, what can I say but how many bad people came from America?
People need to get out from your small world views.
People need to get out from your small world views.
6
You're a man Thomas. So not so bad for you, eh?
1
Give me a break. I lived there for 4 years just recently as well. Have you spoken with any Philippino, Indian, Nepali etc. They are absolutely treated like slaves. Comparing the treatment they get in KSA to USA or EU Is a sick lie. It is just the same as saying Slaves in the South had a great life.
18
I'm sorry, I can't go there. The whole idea that a family run dictatorship is a good thing and should be tolerated under any circumstance is absurd. Citizens learn to adjust to their circumstance since they have no choice otherwise. So yeah, walking around the streets of Riyadh may give you a sense of prosperity and well being, but you're living in a 1984 world of oppression of the ruling family ensuring that you are OK with them having power over you. The media is controlled, the education is controlled, and for sure women are kept in their place, because that's the "culture of Islam" which must be respected. Not for me Thomas.
6
I agree that the Saudis should adopt OUR form of democracy. Pick the two most unpopular Saudis in the kingdom via some Rube Goldberg mechanism. And then let there be a "democratic" vote to decide which one of them should be the new leader. (smile).
One of our problems is that we regard the constitution and the Supreme Court as holy and it could be that we have less room for reform than most other countries on the planet.
The idea behind making the constitution "written in stone" was to make sure that political winds did not change our fundamental principles. But I doubt that the framers anticipated that the Supreme Court would consider itself free to change the constitution (pretending that they were interpreting it) and the voters would have little recourse.
No doubt there is a difference between Mr. Ali Khamenei and OUR nine people in black robes, but at the moment I cannot recall what it is.
One of our problems is that we regard the constitution and the Supreme Court as holy and it could be that we have less room for reform than most other countries on the planet.
The idea behind making the constitution "written in stone" was to make sure that political winds did not change our fundamental principles. But I doubt that the framers anticipated that the Supreme Court would consider itself free to change the constitution (pretending that they were interpreting it) and the voters would have little recourse.
No doubt there is a difference between Mr. Ali Khamenei and OUR nine people in black robes, but at the moment I cannot recall what it is.
1
But the Constitution is not "written in stone." Your antipathy towards the Supreme Court has effectively short-circuited the attempted logical underpinnings of your post. More focus on the cogency of your points and less animosity towards the Court would both go long ways towards making your points more digestible.
3
Artist, I do not have antipathy towards the Supreme Court. Only towards the fact that they are Supreme.
But I assume you are one of the people who just loves Citizens United??
If there ARE to be changes in our understanding of the constitution, then they should not be made by lawyers who have no expertise in the fundamental institutions of society.
They should be made by psychologists, political scientists, writers, and WITH the consent of the American people.
But I assume you are one of the people who just loves Citizens United??
If there ARE to be changes in our understanding of the constitution, then they should not be made by lawyers who have no expertise in the fundamental institutions of society.
They should be made by psychologists, political scientists, writers, and WITH the consent of the American people.
I think your post is very important because you are using the words "antipathy", "effectively", "underpinnings", "cogency", "animosity", and "digestible". It is all so scholarly!!
2
The Saudis have to move away from oil.. thats a fact. The reality is they are fracking the Ghawar field after injecting water to bring the pressure up. You will only hear this fact from oil people by the way. If the Saudis are fracking.. they are running out of oil.
Bloomberg is reporting on the cash position of the Saudis about once a month and the IPO of Aramco which is the kingdom's oil company is going to be used to generate cash. The Saudi government approached J.P. Morgan in May 2016 looking for cash.
With so little cash reserves in foreign currencies the price better get a bigger boat when it all falls apart. He will need one to get to a place of safety.
Bloomberg is reporting on the cash position of the Saudis about once a month and the IPO of Aramco which is the kingdom's oil company is going to be used to generate cash. The Saudi government approached J.P. Morgan in May 2016 looking for cash.
With so little cash reserves in foreign currencies the price better get a bigger boat when it all falls apart. He will need one to get to a place of safety.
6
Amazingly USA is hedging its bet and coddling both
princes bin Nayef and bin Salman. It is time for USA
to downgrade this cozy relationship. President Obama
visiting India cancelled his visit to Taj Mahal to
rush to Saudi Arabia for condolences on the death
of King Abdullah and say hello to new king. Hillary
Clinton is unlikely to change this policy because
Saudis have been big contributor to Clinton Foundation.
We are stuck with is medieval kingdom with terrible
record of suppressing the freedom and human rights
that we the land of the free seem to espouse in rhetoric.
princes bin Nayef and bin Salman. It is time for USA
to downgrade this cozy relationship. President Obama
visiting India cancelled his visit to Taj Mahal to
rush to Saudi Arabia for condolences on the death
of King Abdullah and say hello to new king. Hillary
Clinton is unlikely to change this policy because
Saudis have been big contributor to Clinton Foundation.
We are stuck with is medieval kingdom with terrible
record of suppressing the freedom and human rights
that we the land of the free seem to espouse in rhetoric.
6
Vision 2030 may be the beginning of their end. It sounds like a "trickle-down" playbook, and that's never worked, anywhere.
Do the words nouveau riche translate into Arabic?
BTW, one of the largest, percentage wise, increases of nationalities immigrating into the US are from SA. This should tell us something. Same with wealthy Chinese. Who's vetting these people? This is very dangerous to our country to allow this to be happening, for many reasons.
Yeah and don't forget to include the House of Bush into all of this mess.
Including the jet exodus of SA family members right after 9/11. Never forget.
BTW, one of the largest, percentage wise, increases of nationalities immigrating into the US are from SA. This should tell us something. Same with wealthy Chinese. Who's vetting these people? This is very dangerous to our country to allow this to be happening, for many reasons.
Yeah and don't forget to include the House of Bush into all of this mess.
Including the jet exodus of SA family members right after 9/11. Never forget.
12
Lots of very good comments.
Salman has something going for him: his thinking has scope.
He is probably very wrong about Yemen, where he has become the father of atrocities: there he really should re-think rapidly.
But his vision for the country is at least a blueprint; and presentable.
Who else has proposed a coherent viable future for Saudi Arabia?
What nobody has come to grips with is how to reform the religious thinking that rules the society, without offending the theology and yet making it possible to develop a modern society; perhaps a conservative one, but at least something possible for the 50% of Saudis who are younger than 30, people not so different from their peers elsewhere in the world.
This is the hard nut to crack and Salman must prepare carefully if he is to succeed in this key task.
To believe that radical regime change by itself will do the trick is an illusion. Destabilizing the country will harm its people and the region enormously.
Ultimately, the royal family, with thousands of members, needs to be more serious about being in charge. This must be hard when you live in a very restricted world and have too much money.
Prince Salman should very quickly train royals, men and women alike, to have careers in business, academia, research, local government, diplomacy and the arts.
This should be a priority if he wants his country to be one of the two regional powers.
Both Saudi and Iran, smart countries, are blocking themselves. It is a strange spectacle.
Salman has something going for him: his thinking has scope.
He is probably very wrong about Yemen, where he has become the father of atrocities: there he really should re-think rapidly.
But his vision for the country is at least a blueprint; and presentable.
Who else has proposed a coherent viable future for Saudi Arabia?
What nobody has come to grips with is how to reform the religious thinking that rules the society, without offending the theology and yet making it possible to develop a modern society; perhaps a conservative one, but at least something possible for the 50% of Saudis who are younger than 30, people not so different from their peers elsewhere in the world.
This is the hard nut to crack and Salman must prepare carefully if he is to succeed in this key task.
To believe that radical regime change by itself will do the trick is an illusion. Destabilizing the country will harm its people and the region enormously.
Ultimately, the royal family, with thousands of members, needs to be more serious about being in charge. This must be hard when you live in a very restricted world and have too much money.
Prince Salman should very quickly train royals, men and women alike, to have careers in business, academia, research, local government, diplomacy and the arts.
This should be a priority if he wants his country to be one of the two regional powers.
Both Saudi and Iran, smart countries, are blocking themselves. It is a strange spectacle.
1
I agree with you, and yet what Salman is doing hardly seems like radical regime change. He is not claiming the throne, more likely creating a mandate for himself when that day arrives.
1
Ah, a perfect ally for the US!
3
Neither Saudi Prince Mohammad bin Salman nor his father King Salman nor Osama bin Laden would ever be mistaken for a humane humble empathetic human being who believes in the virtues of liberal civic secular plural egalitarian democracy where all are divinely naturally equal with certain unalienable rights of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
There is no Arab nation state capital that does not have members of that same vile pack. Nor is there a Jewish nation state capital that is not running with the same canine crew.
How did the citizens of these states along with all of the people under their dominion vote in their last election?
There is no Arab nation state capital that does not have members of that same vile pack. Nor is there a Jewish nation state capital that is not running with the same canine crew.
How did the citizens of these states along with all of the people under their dominion vote in their last election?
5
Arab nations are made of tribes. No clearer example than that is the UAE.
That is also why they will not accept Syrians. Give the Syrians half a chance and they'd be trying to overthrow their hosts.
That is also why they will not accept Syrians. Give the Syrians half a chance and they'd be trying to overthrow their hosts.
3
No man\woman should be raised above another due to hereditary luck.
Kings and Queens are relics of the bronze age an should be abolished for democracies. ( across the globe ) People should be allowed to control their own destinies without being subservient to the whims of a ''dictator'' ( usually a man )
We are all born with inalienable rights as well. Especially women.
Kings and Queens are relics of the bronze age an should be abolished for democracies. ( across the globe ) People should be allowed to control their own destinies without being subservient to the whims of a ''dictator'' ( usually a man )
We are all born with inalienable rights as well. Especially women.
8
Did it occur to reporters Mark Mazzetti and Ben Hubbard to question this "most dynamic royal" as to his views about the status of Saudi women, especially when the U.S. may be about to elect a woman as President -- which would certainly change the dynamic of our relations with countries in the Middle East.
Who cares that Mohammed bin Salman has been responsible for introducing "comedy shows, pro wrestling events and monster truck rallies" to a country where it's illegal for women to drive?
Reportorial and editorial "fail."
Who cares that Mohammed bin Salman has been responsible for introducing "comedy shows, pro wrestling events and monster truck rallies" to a country where it's illegal for women to drive?
Reportorial and editorial "fail."
3
"Prince bin Salman declined multiple interview requests for this article."
You're welcome.
You're welcome.
3
Enough with friendship with these barbarians, some of whom funded 9/11 and who are creating new terrorists to hate US by bombing civilians in Yemen. We would do better the align with Iran..and to leave the whole territory. Leave them all to sort it out. Our war economy continues to rule this country. If it did not we would be out of there.
6
Talking of austerity measures now, and trying to reinvent the economy, is pretty much a generation too late. A new infrastructure that didn't entirely depend on oil, should have been implemented when this guy was a child. Pretty much everything is imported. When alternative energy really starts taking off in the next ten years, then you'll really start to see civil unrest in a society where subsidies are as common as the Sun.
1
I don't know what is more sickening - the way Saudi Arabia runs its country, or the fact that the US Government and big business (See The Carlyle Group for example) sees these guys as our friends and allies.
6
I read nothing in all this babble about improving the status & treatment of women.
Our tax dollars (US) put Prince Bndar bib Sultan ibn Abdel Aziz into a NASA spaceship so he could circumnavigate the globe & read he holy Qu'ran in space, whereas his wife (wives), sisters, daughters, mother, aunts, female cousins are not allowed to drive in the "Kingdom".
To my mind, you can't get more hypocritical than that.
Our tax dollars (US) put Prince Bndar bib Sultan ibn Abdel Aziz into a NASA spaceship so he could circumnavigate the globe & read he holy Qu'ran in space, whereas his wife (wives), sisters, daughters, mother, aunts, female cousins are not allowed to drive in the "Kingdom".
To my mind, you can't get more hypocritical than that.
6
It's not that way everywhere in the Middle East. In Abu Dhabi and other Emirates, you better move your rear end and get out of the way of taxis and Arab ladies in their BMW X5s equipped with tires as wide as a F1 car.
1
I know that in person & up close, but that does not excuse the literal imprisonment of women in Saudi Arabia, even if the handcuffs are platinum & the prison uniform in designer-made. King Saud bin Abdel Aziz made a pact with the devil when he turned "religious affairs" over to the Wahabis. That was like turning ecumenism over to Torquemada & his cohorts...
4
$550 million for his yacht! That's outrageous! That yacht isn't worth anymore than $500 million---he got taken!
2
Oh, sure, the "reformer" ... .... .... a la Gorbachev style. We have been there before, seen them fail time after time.
Nothing new here. Happens alll the time to obsolete, regressive, oppresive systems like the Soviet Union or the Saudi Kigdom: Somebody from within the system comes up with great ideas to "transform"... sometimes it is mostly sugarcoating, sometimes the wannabe reformer accomplished some things. But at the end, it doesnt help much.
As much as this Saudi Prince wants to improve and reform things, he is STILL part of the establishiment and probably shares the same vices and limitations of his pampered siblings.
I can envision how someday in the future this "reformer" could end living a comfortable life as an exiled, musing "what went wrong?" on his US$ 500 million yatch
Nothing new here. Happens alll the time to obsolete, regressive, oppresive systems like the Soviet Union or the Saudi Kigdom: Somebody from within the system comes up with great ideas to "transform"... sometimes it is mostly sugarcoating, sometimes the wannabe reformer accomplished some things. But at the end, it doesnt help much.
As much as this Saudi Prince wants to improve and reform things, he is STILL part of the establishiment and probably shares the same vices and limitations of his pampered siblings.
I can envision how someday in the future this "reformer" could end living a comfortable life as an exiled, musing "what went wrong?" on his US$ 500 million yatch
Someone spending 500 million on a yacht is not serious about reforming the government. It is one thing to build a palace, which may have other uses, but a yacht? That is a lot of oil converted into waste.
1
Why can we not dissociate ourselves from this region? It's really more trouble than it's worth. Let these tribes war among themselves. We need only resolve to have good relations with whomever comes out on top.
5
Another global Enfant Terrible on the rise.
14
Let's see: slashing state budgets, cutting civil employee salaries, but spending 1/2 a billion dollars of oil money on a yacht ... sounds more like a republican than a muslim ...
18
***The crown prince has diabetes, and suffers from the lingering effects of an assassination attempt in 2009 by a jihadist who detonated a bomb he had hidden in his rectum.***
I cannot think of any joke worthy of this factoid!
I cannot think of any joke worthy of this factoid!
7
If I were to print this out it would take 13 pages.
I'll save a tree.
I'll wait until you offer a 13-page story that is on the the lowest 50% of the Saudi Arabian population... you know, the "subjects" of that "absolute monarchy" who have no "rights" like "citizens" of a "democracy" do.
A great part of my revulsion on Trump is that he reminds me of The Princes of The Sands of Saudi Arabia... and my revulsion on the Princes is that they remind me of Trump.
All that glitters is not gold.
What boring men.
I'll save a tree.
I'll wait until you offer a 13-page story that is on the the lowest 50% of the Saudi Arabian population... you know, the "subjects" of that "absolute monarchy" who have no "rights" like "citizens" of a "democracy" do.
A great part of my revulsion on Trump is that he reminds me of The Princes of The Sands of Saudi Arabia... and my revulsion on the Princes is that they remind me of Trump.
All that glitters is not gold.
What boring men.
16
The fact that he was educated in his own country makes him incapable of modernization.
23
very good point.
6
Why we should care about this internal power struggle in Saudi Arabia is a big question. I am more concerned about how much in lobbying money is given to our politicians to carry out their agenda. Saudi Arabia does not even come close to sharing our values so why are our elected officials kissing up and appeasing them?
10
es, don't worry. Congress is brothel. we need to accept that. Without money to put in politician's hands no legislation passes. It's part of the democratic process.
6
Your comments show how little you and most Americans kow about the world and how it runs. We do not live in isolation and it is more a "game of chess than a game of checkers". American people know little of what really goes on and seem to care less.
2
Because it would cost you $8000 or $9000 (after taxes) a year to heat your house if we didn't?
Does anyone seriously think that either presidential candidate will confront the Saudi monarchy's support of Islamic terrorism? A Clinton administration would do nothing to change the status quo, while Trump thinks Wahabbi is something that comes with your sushi.
9
Here is the question I have always had since 9/11.....why didn't the Saudis warn us in advance of 9/11? Surely they knew or their intelligence was aware of the threat. The Saudis, along with Israel, have the best intelligence and probably know most of everything going on in that region. I've read that it cost thousands of dollars to finance 9/11, was anyone tracking the flow of money?
4
In April, Businessweek ran a lengthy profile of the prince (aka Mr. Everything) ... a puff piece really, where the prince's financial adviser describes how the kingdom would have gone "completely broke" by 2017 had it not been for the prince's swift action. Somehow, they forgot to mention the yacht ...
More distressing though is the prince's lead on the disastrous war in Yemen ... and that he disappeared on holiday in the Maldives as the conflict escalated ... a young prince who "credits video games with sparking ingenuity" simply pressed pause on his war and went on vacation ...
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2016-04-21/the-2-trillion-project...
More distressing though is the prince's lead on the disastrous war in Yemen ... and that he disappeared on holiday in the Maldives as the conflict escalated ... a young prince who "credits video games with sparking ingenuity" simply pressed pause on his war and went on vacation ...
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2016-04-21/the-2-trillion-project...
10
All I see in the opening picture is a bunch of Donald Trumps; just quieter and dressed different. Actually, by comparison, Trump is a civil rights activist, feminist, and champion for the poor.
8
$550 M for a yacht, well why not?
If C.E.O of America's failed corporations/banks resign with $150M +, who are we to chastise the Saudi prince?
If C.E.O of America's failed corporations/banks resign with $150M +, who are we to chastise the Saudi prince?
9
Who can change the Kingdom of Saud as it punishes a commoner journalist for voicing concerns, in the Kingdom so rigidly clenched by a secretive feudal patriarchy, whose self-appointed King is most concerned with maintaining the dynasty and its succession by blood-lineage.
Change cannot be brought by a commoner of the Kingdom. Any attempt by an outsider nation would cut loose a long-simmering faction war within the ruling family. Substantive change can come only from the ruling family.
We see a prospective ruler of the Kingdom wishing to show his vision for change, but his vision does not include a new power structure. We see the deputy crown prince acting on personal whims and lusting over a dreamy yacht. This prince is unlearned in Western, Eastern, or International traditions, educated by a nationalistic system, yet craving to learn artful messaging and manipulation through social media.
Saudi Arabia must abandon its 15th century hegemony, and modernize more than its oil-dependent economy. It must modernize its ruling class.
Change cannot be brought by a commoner of the Kingdom. Any attempt by an outsider nation would cut loose a long-simmering faction war within the ruling family. Substantive change can come only from the ruling family.
We see a prospective ruler of the Kingdom wishing to show his vision for change, but his vision does not include a new power structure. We see the deputy crown prince acting on personal whims and lusting over a dreamy yacht. This prince is unlearned in Western, Eastern, or International traditions, educated by a nationalistic system, yet craving to learn artful messaging and manipulation through social media.
Saudi Arabia must abandon its 15th century hegemony, and modernize more than its oil-dependent economy. It must modernize its ruling class.
6
A study of history reveals a slew of kings, queens, and emperor's whose names often end with titles such as "the Wise," "the Just," "the Benevolent," and of course, "the Great." These are the survivors of history who often charted new and creative directions for their kingdoms and often alleviated unfairness and suffering among their people. Make no mistake however - none of these "good" monarchs ever gave up their wealth, titles, or power but remained autocratic despots throughout their lives.
4
Wow -- how forward thinking! Monster truck rallies. But no where did I read anything about lifting its medieval policies about women.
22
Does the prince truly want to reform Saudi Arabia?
How about these ideas:
- get rid of the current "family" kingdom, by declaring his position as "president" to oversee a full constitutional transformation;
- launch full parliamentary elections, with full voting rights for women, full political freedom and full media freedom, and elect a prime minister;
- get the parliament to draft a modern constitution, with the separation of church and state, a full reform of the legal system with clear executive and judicial branches of government;
- allow the young generations of saudi men and women to unleash their creativity and entrepreneurial spirit in the new economy without gender bias, giving full access to education to women and men alike;
- confiscate all the cash hoarded by the royal family in the past century and use it to finance all the entrepreneurial projects above.
- ban all extremist, intolerant and violent expressions of Islam, declaring freedom of religion, and eliminating all "religious" crimes from the legal code.
A dream? Perhaps. But if the young and visionary Prince wants to go down in history as one of the greatest reformers and innovators of the Arab world, this is the only way to go.
How about these ideas:
- get rid of the current "family" kingdom, by declaring his position as "president" to oversee a full constitutional transformation;
- launch full parliamentary elections, with full voting rights for women, full political freedom and full media freedom, and elect a prime minister;
- get the parliament to draft a modern constitution, with the separation of church and state, a full reform of the legal system with clear executive and judicial branches of government;
- allow the young generations of saudi men and women to unleash their creativity and entrepreneurial spirit in the new economy without gender bias, giving full access to education to women and men alike;
- confiscate all the cash hoarded by the royal family in the past century and use it to finance all the entrepreneurial projects above.
- ban all extremist, intolerant and violent expressions of Islam, declaring freedom of religion, and eliminating all "religious" crimes from the legal code.
A dream? Perhaps. But if the young and visionary Prince wants to go down in history as one of the greatest reformers and innovators of the Arab world, this is the only way to go.
6
The Royal Family probably number 15,000 now. Maybe more. You tell them that they're out.
2
What the world would be interested is knowing what's the policy on state sponsor of radicalism and the Wahhabism. Donations flow into countries that preach hatred and has become the grassroots movement of terrorism around the word. They have successfully turned Pakistan into a incubator of radical terrorism.
I'm not surprised that the 2030 plans include nothing about addressing these issues.
I'm not surprised that the 2030 plans include nothing about addressing these issues.
9
We call for the liberation of Hejaz.
The truths in this article are sad, pathetic, revolting, and disappointing on every level. Born into privilege with a birthright to spend the country's oil revenues on himself (and fellow "royals" doing likewise). I look for this sociopath to have his cousin, 57-year-old Mohammed bin Nayef murdered to make way for his rise to King. Saudi Arabia is only the North Korea of the Arab world. Yeah, there's a satirical blog for North Korea. https://reedakted.blogspot.com
2
This is one of the most detailed pieces about Saudi inner workings I've ever read in the newspaper. Could you please source some of this? No quotes, cryptic statements, tiny pieces of the puzzle.It absolutely reeks of mysteriousness at a time when we need understand where we're getting her information from.
2
How can that country "reform" when they continue to treat half their population as animals?
16
The yacht story is disappointing. The young prince was being touted as a breath of fresh air, but this article highlights the fact he's no less spoiled than any of his other relatives. He just has the brains to realize you can't vacation in the south of France if your kingdom is mired in a civil war.
9
Bear in mind, the size and design of yachts are one of the principal ways the powerful and wealthy use their position to define themselves and impress others. His role in accompanying his father on his vacation in the South of France was likely something of a 'minder' in case the old man became disorientated away from home. The son needs his father to avoid falls, broken bones, pneumonia and remain in continued good health during his own power consolidation. The 'vacation' in the South of France therefore represented work and the yacht simply a tool matching his own modern style.
2
Why all the hand wringing over Saudi Arabia? The attention should be refocussed on the U.S.A. itself. Without U.S. assistance, connivance, appeasement and blind U.S. support the Saudis and their proxies would not have been able to perpetrate the atrocities of 9/11, 7/7, Bali, Mumbai, Nice, Madrid, Paris, San Bernadino and numerous others.
Instead the focus is on Russia and Iran which are simply defending themselves from the effects of gratuitous U.S. demonization and the pursuance of total U.S. dominion over the oil and geostrategic resources of the Middle East, not to mention the currency in which trade is conducted there.
If you support terrorists, arm terrorists, enable terrorists to kill and mutilate thousands of your own citizens and protect those same terrorists from any kind of criticism, let alone retribution: What does that make YOU?
Instead the focus is on Russia and Iran which are simply defending themselves from the effects of gratuitous U.S. demonization and the pursuance of total U.S. dominion over the oil and geostrategic resources of the Middle East, not to mention the currency in which trade is conducted there.
If you support terrorists, arm terrorists, enable terrorists to kill and mutilate thousands of your own citizens and protect those same terrorists from any kind of criticism, let alone retribution: What does that make YOU?
17
It makes us like Europeans. Pragmatic.
The house of Saud is rocking and crumbling. They are cozying up to the Russians to stabilize oil prices - good luck luck with that, it won't bring us to our knees anymore - we in the US can be completely independant after Obama leaves office. The country itself is run by religious zealot that the Monarchy is afraid of. There is no real economy in the country and everything is subsidised by oil. Pay reductions, social benefits cut and broad stroke policies to stop spending in the private and public sectors will undoubtedly destabilize the country - there is no choice but to cut across the board and I suspect with Iran causing mischief nearby Saudi Arabia will need to be much nicer to us if they expect us to assist them.
4
Once again ignorance on display. We have become energy independent WITH Obama in office. While President Obama has pursued policies to promote and incorporate alternative, non fossil fuel energy, our natural gas and oil industries remain exceedingly productive thanks to fracking and new technologies. Those are controversial technologies but they are in full swing and many, myself included, believe the sooner we can shift more of our energy needs to non fossil fuel supplies the better for many reasons. That being said the price of oil is dictated by world markets, and when the world price of oil gets less than 40 or 50 dollars a barrel it becomes unprofitable for oil production in the US (& North America in general). So please at least base your opinion of factual information.
4
We are not energy independent. Who owns our oil? First, if Shell or BP could get an extra nickle per barrel selling our oil to Europe, they'd do it in a heartbeat.
Second, we are in a global economy. If one third of oil over there went off the market, our own oil price would double or triple.
Second, we are in a global economy. If one third of oil over there went off the market, our own oil price would double or triple.
It is a paradox for a Saudi Arabian, but it would be simple corruption for anybody else.
11
Aren't these the same people that financed the 9/11 attacks and are currently doing the same for ISIS? why do we care about them?
19
The hubris of these so-called princes will bring about their ultimate downfall. Up until now they have bought off the Saudi people with their dirty oil money. Their day will come, and it won't be pretty.
7
The guy is so giddy with his wealth and privilege that he way overpaid for that boat. I can imagine that Russian: "So you want my boat? Sure, Half a billion." Saudi prince: "okay!"
14
How much does SA make per year? They pump 10.5 million barrels at $50 per barrel. Do the math. It is one day's oil production.
That is 10.5 million barrels at $50 per barrel - per day.
$550 million for a yacht would pay for the shelter and support of how many Syrian refugees?
18
The picture sums it up. Arrogant, self-serving (obviously), jerk. Why we deal with this country is beyond me, given our history with them. "Oil" is normally the answer. Well, knock big oil down a few notches in the US, and auto manufacturing as well, airlines too. Then, bring back rail. The most efficient, civilized transportation around.
14
The Saudis are murdering innocent people in Yemen with their indiscriminate bombing raids, and the United States is complicit by continuing to sell them weapons. So tell me again that that "religious people" are somehow more moral than than non-believers. Ha!
16
First, absolute monarchy is legitimized dictatorship couched in religious superstition and brutality.
Second, Saudi monarchy was established by Britain to secure oil exploitation. The Bedouin tribe of Saud coupled with Wahhabi fanatics, were elevated by the English above other nomads to serve as the vassals of colonialism. Aside from that, the Saudis have no claim on "divine rights" than does any "straw boss".
Third, oil, the only rational element in any discussion of legitimacy, has become the primary source of global warming, will soon be replaced by technological innovation and is a pollutant known to cause cancer and promote heart disease and emphysema.
Fourth, Wahhabism, the religious cult that fortifies the House of Saud, is recognized around the world as the number one source of Sunni terrorism, and Wahhabi missionaries and imams are financed and promoted by Saudi Arabian "Princes".
Humanity cannot abide the continued existence of a government and a nation that derives from medieval brutality, a primitive cult, or the vested interests of corporations and individuals that are poisoning the air, the water, and changing the climate while fomenting war and hampering the development of scientific advancement and providing an example of degenerate privilege for those who seize power by force.
The idea of America condemns all states that have the "Soprano" model of governance. The "Prince" is just a gangster heading a crime family. Delenda est.
Second, Saudi monarchy was established by Britain to secure oil exploitation. The Bedouin tribe of Saud coupled with Wahhabi fanatics, were elevated by the English above other nomads to serve as the vassals of colonialism. Aside from that, the Saudis have no claim on "divine rights" than does any "straw boss".
Third, oil, the only rational element in any discussion of legitimacy, has become the primary source of global warming, will soon be replaced by technological innovation and is a pollutant known to cause cancer and promote heart disease and emphysema.
Fourth, Wahhabism, the religious cult that fortifies the House of Saud, is recognized around the world as the number one source of Sunni terrorism, and Wahhabi missionaries and imams are financed and promoted by Saudi Arabian "Princes".
Humanity cannot abide the continued existence of a government and a nation that derives from medieval brutality, a primitive cult, or the vested interests of corporations and individuals that are poisoning the air, the water, and changing the climate while fomenting war and hampering the development of scientific advancement and providing an example of degenerate privilege for those who seize power by force.
The idea of America condemns all states that have the "Soprano" model of governance. The "Prince" is just a gangster heading a crime family. Delenda est.
16
My brother in law was working in saudi arabia (lower case deliberately, I have no respect for these people or their country) for the past several years in the medical industry. He just returned and does not paint a good future for these folks with ZEROS on their heads. They are not even paying the police services there---the folks who are keeping these imbeciles in power, and are selling some of their oil infrastructure to the Chinese.
I read here in NYT that their primary oil company wants to buy refining facilities in Houston for billions... it tells me something. Selling your own assets, buying assets elsewhere, not paying workers or police services... it seems these guys want to leave town for :) USA...
I read here in NYT that their primary oil company wants to buy refining facilities in Houston for billions... it tells me something. Selling your own assets, buying assets elsewhere, not paying workers or police services... it seems these guys want to leave town for :) USA...
18
Extremist enabler? A $550M impulse buy?
Think about that next time you gas up your SUV or rev your Charger Hellcat.
Think about that next time you gas up your SUV or rev your Charger Hellcat.
15
A doctor I know just told me she's thinking of moving temporarily to Saudi Arabia for work.
'But do you really want to spend two years in an absolute monarchy where women can't go out without a male chaperone, where adulterers are stoned to death and thieves' hands cut off, a country that sponsors international terrorism and is now destroying Yemen, that treats its workers terribly and accepts no Arab refugees, that bans music, theater and film, that has even demolished its own holy city of Mecca - where Muslims supposedly all go in equality - in favor of building huge luxury hotels?'
"Oh, foreign women expats are exempt, and as for the rest, it's not my problem. Let me tell you about the huge salary and perks I'll be getting'.
Western attitudes to Saudi Arabia in a nutshell.
'But do you really want to spend two years in an absolute monarchy where women can't go out without a male chaperone, where adulterers are stoned to death and thieves' hands cut off, a country that sponsors international terrorism and is now destroying Yemen, that treats its workers terribly and accepts no Arab refugees, that bans music, theater and film, that has even demolished its own holy city of Mecca - where Muslims supposedly all go in equality - in favor of building huge luxury hotels?'
"Oh, foreign women expats are exempt, and as for the rest, it's not my problem. Let me tell you about the huge salary and perks I'll be getting'.
Western attitudes to Saudi Arabia in a nutshell.
34
I think he is too much like Little Kim in North Korea. He lives in a world of his own royal making and fails to see how his people need help. He really needed that yacht to sail around Saudi Arabia and greet his people.
10
A real leader would not waste $ 550 million like a child but would help the people of Saudi Arabia and the poor in that region. Good luck wight the future, but do not waste the wealth unnecessarily, that $ 550 million even if it was just invested and earned 2% a year would proved the impoverished with $11 million a year which could be buy 44 houses at $ 250,000 each in perpetuity. Waste not want not. Less is more. Do not honor gold.
7
Interesting but unilluminating on the issues that I believe interest readers most: 1) which of the two potential successors is more likely to confront Wahabi clerics? And 2) which of the two is more likely to advance human rights in the Kingdom, and particularly women's rights? Finally, it is very unfortunate to see any reference to the war in Yemen that does not stress the war crimes being committed there by Saudi (and other, if applicable) forces.
6
Send these losers back to the desert along with all their viscious offspring. !5/19 of the 9-11 were Sauds, as well as their icon. Let ISIS bloody them. Let the dead bury the dead.
8
For someone who had his education in Saudi Arabia, I'm very impressed to know that the Prince had entertained the Secretary of State by playing Beethoven on the piano.
5
How do you motivate your population to work
and start businesses when the state has subsidized
every good and service with oil revenue and guest
workers? You start by cutting off the subsidies and
if you want to keep your head, you might want to avoid buying huge yachts.
and start businesses when the state has subsidized
every good and service with oil revenue and guest
workers? You start by cutting off the subsidies and
if you want to keep your head, you might want to avoid buying huge yachts.
4
Mazzetti & Hubbard: You just couldn't resist showing your prejudice to the Arabs by insisting on using a no-no sentence:"Some of his initiatives have appeared ham-handed"!! Shame on you. Apologize.
2
The one thing this story and the classroom full of kids learning how to make fuses in Yemen, our new battleground because the Saudis can't fight the Houthis alone, is the U.S. failure of our government to demonstrate to our "allies" like the Saudis just how vulnerable and alone they are without us.
As for the yacht its his money-for now.
As for the yacht its his money-for now.
I couldn't get past the 550 million dollar yacht bought on a whim. I buy Hershey bars on a whim.
The utter corruption in this whole Saudi Royal family is despicable. This country, with all the amazing oil wealth it has received for decades could have become a truly first world paradise, but instead is still mired in medieval times because the oil money flows to one giant parasitic family. To think of all the infrastructure and investment in the future that has been wasted. Just imagine what amazing projects for the nation that could have been financed for 550 million dollars!
Can we please find a way to switch over to other energy sources? The sooner we stop buying oil the sooner this regime collapses.
The utter corruption in this whole Saudi Royal family is despicable. This country, with all the amazing oil wealth it has received for decades could have become a truly first world paradise, but instead is still mired in medieval times because the oil money flows to one giant parasitic family. To think of all the infrastructure and investment in the future that has been wasted. Just imagine what amazing projects for the nation that could have been financed for 550 million dollars!
Can we please find a way to switch over to other energy sources? The sooner we stop buying oil the sooner this regime collapses.
6
Just take the train, please! Vote for people who will support American made solar, wind, and other clean, renewable energy. Vote for improved infrastructure. That will be a revolution, and it can be done.
3
Saudi Arabia led the whole Sunni world to its doom. The Sunni societies don't function anymore. There is nothing in our households made in Sunni world save gas in our tanks. It is a failed model of human society that is now dying. The West is bombing it to smithereens in Syria and Libya. The Israelis in Palestine. In Lebanon, the Shiites took power away from them. Egypt produces food for only half of their population. in 100 years, humanity will hopefully be done with this erroneous path to development and pursue more fertile paths to human enlightenment.
And the Saudi rule with its medieval bombast stands in the center of this blight. Be gone already!
And the Saudi rule with its medieval bombast stands in the center of this blight. Be gone already!
1
Saudi Arabia? A feudal state sitting upon an ocean of a substance critical to our civilization. And that's it. That is all they have. It is why the rest of the world tolerates them parading around tin-pot style like they do. And parade around they certainly do, don't they? It'd be laughable except for the radical Wahhabism they evince.
And this "I bought a $550M yacht" is the epitome of greed linked to hubris. He spends such money while his "people" remain feudal. Here in the 21st Century it seems some humans haven't changed much from those of some thousand years ago, eh? It's still all about the Power and that which it affords, and to hell with everyone else.
So it goes.
John~
American Net'Zen
And this "I bought a $550M yacht" is the epitome of greed linked to hubris. He spends such money while his "people" remain feudal. Here in the 21st Century it seems some humans haven't changed much from those of some thousand years ago, eh? It's still all about the Power and that which it affords, and to hell with everyone else.
So it goes.
John~
American Net'Zen
4
Nothing about the excesses of this unelected, inexperienced, impulsive man child is surprising. What is tragic is that the great western nations and the United States "play nice" with this fool who is now waging a horrific war in Yemen and funding death and destruction in Syria, plunging the world into a very dark place. As long as the Saudis kept their corruption focused on their expensive toys and their medieval fiefdom, the rest of the world got a break. Not any more. Now they want to be a "regional power" with global significance. God help us all.
5
Everyday I hate the rich a little more. Trump is a demagogue and sexual predator. Clinton is a conscienceless war monger and Wall Street tool. And then there is the fricking House of Saud: gangster Salafist theocrats whose personal fortunes are directly correlated with the melting of the ice caps. Though it won't be on the ballot, a better world is possible if we want it. Humanity needs to throw ALL of these bloated parasites off our backs. After Clinton wins, we all need to be prepared to hit the streets to oppose grotesque dictatorship of the 1% that she will represent.
4
You lost me at the idea of a 31 year-old being able to buy a $550,000 yacht on a whim.
I don't care if these people kill each other until there are none left. Let the civil war continue and engulf the region. We need to stay out of it and focus on other energy sources.
The only good thing that came from hydraulic fracking was the drop in oil prices and the problems it continues to create for the the likes of these savages and the maduro government in Venezuela. 30 days of Guillotine action, a al French Revolution, should finally end this "royal family".
The only good thing that came from hydraulic fracking was the drop in oil prices and the problems it continues to create for the the likes of these savages and the maduro government in Venezuela. 30 days of Guillotine action, a al French Revolution, should finally end this "royal family".
5
How much of this information came from the Podesta Group (yes, Hillary Clinton's Podesta), which is a Saudi lobbyist? It's time for The Times to start divulging its sources since we now know how cozy it has become with the Clinton team.
4
Deputy Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman seems to be stupid and brutal, even by the standards of the al Saud family. He needs to be moved off of his yacht and into a cell in the Hague, awaiting trial and conviction of crimes against humanity for his mass murders of civilians in Yemen.
Dan Kravitz
Dan Kravitz
1
This is the same nation that forced young school girls into a burning school building because they ran out of the fire forgetting to cover their heads and faces. Now they are setting themselves up for a coup.
Every day I thank God I was born in America even though we are not perfect. That's why when a candidate comes along that doesn't believe in raising the minimum wage, wants a Supreme Court that would curtail civil rights and doesn't understand our constitution and also thinks the Chinese handled a peaceful demonstration for democracy well by killing students and likes Putin as a leader, I see a pattern that would put us under such governments as the Saudis.
We need to find alternatives to oil so these countries that fund terrorists can dwindle into the sand.
Every day I thank God I was born in America even though we are not perfect. That's why when a candidate comes along that doesn't believe in raising the minimum wage, wants a Supreme Court that would curtail civil rights and doesn't understand our constitution and also thinks the Chinese handled a peaceful demonstration for democracy well by killing students and likes Putin as a leader, I see a pattern that would put us under such governments as the Saudis.
We need to find alternatives to oil so these countries that fund terrorists can dwindle into the sand.
4
In any nation whose leadership is chosen by the bullet rather than the ballot don't be surprised if none become king.
1
This guy, on a whim, spent $500 million of his country's money on a big boat for himself.
What more do you need to know?
What more do you need to know?
2
Mind you this money spent by The Prince is from a small oil well in International waters given to a Chinese contractor pumping oil to a tanker and selling it in China , while the commander general of the fifth NATO carrier ship watching from a distance holding his balls anticipating a hostile move from across the Gulf. The money is used as what it's called Special interest Fee.
1
At first sight it impresses young Saudis - fed-up with their country's seniority system - to see Prince Mohammad bin Salman, a young power-holder of the House of Saud shaking up the old tradition. Has he taken inspiration from Kim Jong-un? I see some parallels between the two contemporaries.
No doubt some of bin Salman's ideas are good, like his grandiose plan named Vision 2030 - designed to prepare pampered Saudis for a life after oil by diversifying, privatising and modernising the largest economy in the Arab world - and "increasing employment and improving education, health and other government services." But the Kingdom is not yet ready for such far-reaching changes. Older people remember other big plans in the past to wean the country off oil and in the end the government always backed down. Many believe he is inexperienced and may not be dealing with reality. Younger people call for democratic reforms - change of the political and legal system and addressing social issues regarding women.
The prince raised heckles when he bought a $500 million yacht within hours, while many Saudis have to bear the brunt of budget cuts. His adventure in Yemen has destabilised the Arabian peninsula, earning him the title "Prince of war." His future is not as certain as he may have in mind. His stardom comes with a risk, if his plan fails.
No doubt some of bin Salman's ideas are good, like his grandiose plan named Vision 2030 - designed to prepare pampered Saudis for a life after oil by diversifying, privatising and modernising the largest economy in the Arab world - and "increasing employment and improving education, health and other government services." But the Kingdom is not yet ready for such far-reaching changes. Older people remember other big plans in the past to wean the country off oil and in the end the government always backed down. Many believe he is inexperienced and may not be dealing with reality. Younger people call for democratic reforms - change of the political and legal system and addressing social issues regarding women.
The prince raised heckles when he bought a $500 million yacht within hours, while many Saudis have to bear the brunt of budget cuts. His adventure in Yemen has destabilised the Arabian peninsula, earning him the title "Prince of war." His future is not as certain as he may have in mind. His stardom comes with a risk, if his plan fails.
8
What good are these guys worth....instead of being leaders of the Muslim word they are it's destructors
6
Serene is listed as the 15th largest yacht in the world. Buying this toy on a whim makes this statement in the article a bit odd: "Prince bin Salman has called for a new era of fiscal responsibility....". An oxymoron would be the fiscally responsible Saudi prince buys a half billion dollar yacht on a whim and takes immediate delivery from the owner. And where did he get the money to do this, one might ask.
9
Yeah, its clear to me that none of the Saudi royals should be in charge, and I am disgusted that we support them. This guy Salman impulsively blows half a billion on a luxury yacht tells you all you need to know about his leadership credentials.
13
Saudi Arabia is a fascinating case study of the shift in the American Middle East foreign policy.
The end of the economic oil cycle --combined with the rise in radical Islamic jihadism, regional civil wars and the failed Irak invasion in 2003-- has reshaped American policy towards the region.
The unwavering support for Saudi Arabia/Israel is on the decline while Iran retakes its prominence as the main regional power.
A young Saudi prince buying a $ 500 million euros yacht while imposing financial austerity at home does not help the monarchy's prestige among a restless population.
The Saudis and Israelis feel (correctly) threatened by the profound shift in American policy.
The questions are: Can Saudi Arabia become another Syria? What the US government's response will be if the House of Saudis is threatened to be deposed by radical Islamic groups?
The end of the economic oil cycle --combined with the rise in radical Islamic jihadism, regional civil wars and the failed Irak invasion in 2003-- has reshaped American policy towards the region.
The unwavering support for Saudi Arabia/Israel is on the decline while Iran retakes its prominence as the main regional power.
A young Saudi prince buying a $ 500 million euros yacht while imposing financial austerity at home does not help the monarchy's prestige among a restless population.
The Saudis and Israelis feel (correctly) threatened by the profound shift in American policy.
The questions are: Can Saudi Arabia become another Syria? What the US government's response will be if the House of Saudis is threatened to be deposed by radical Islamic groups?
5
Five hundred million spent on a yacht? People like this "prince" are a disgrace to the entire world.
8
I bet that, given a choice, a majority of Americans would favor cutting off all relations with this disgusting Saudi elite, steeped as it is in conspicuous consumption, misogyny, xenophobia, and religious fanaticism. It is a measure of the extent to which the US lacks a functioning democracy and is instead ruled by a corrupt plutocratic elite of its own that we keep supporting these primitive thugs.
19
It shows how wrong and corrupt “officials in Washington” are for hedging their bets and trying to cosy up with a spoiled, corrupt war criminal who is dragging Saudi Arabia and the whole region in the wrong direction. A man who buys a yacht at a whim at $550 billion cannot be taken seriously for wanting to reform Saudi Arabia. It is time America severed her links or at least her total support for a corrupt, medieval family that spreads fanaticism and terrorism in the Middle East. Such cosy relations with these autocrats do not correspond with any of America’s values.
12
Saudi Arabia is the bedrock if what is wrong with the Middle East and American policy in that region.
14
Every article about the Saudis should include Sec. of State Clinton's conclusion in 2010 that the Saudis are the biggest State funders of terrorism in the World. They sent us 15 of the 19 9/11 hijackers. Their brand of religion is what fuels al Qaeda & ISIS.
The fact we have a cozy relationship with these terrorists and sell them billions in arms each year is beyond disturbing.
The fact we have a cozy relationship with these terrorists and sell them billions in arms each year is beyond disturbing.
18
If Clinton knows the Saudis are the biggest state sponsor of world terrorism then why would the Clinton Foundation accept their donations? Put that in every article.
8
Mohammed bin Salman is a power hungry religious zealot with the means to enforce his will.
He grew up in an ivory tower with pictures of the enemy posted on the walls.
He wholeheartedly believes in the supremacy of his clan and the teachings of his religious path over the rest of the world, especially those he sees as unworthy and these are many.
Had he not been a top member of the ruling family in Riyadh, he would be a field commander of the IS.
That is his mindset as everyone who ever had dealings with him will be able to confirm.
Like a small child, he does not know the meaning of the word "no" when spoken to him.
His way of handling the war in Yemen, his preparation of the nuclear capabilities of the kingdom and his way to handling various uprisings in his own country are the biggest threat to the kingdom.
Despite his show of opening women's rights towards a more westernized version, he is a hard liner who will suppress any one and start a war any time he feels like he is threatened or if he feels that this might advance his power in any way, regardless of the cost - especially of the cost to others.
This guy is a lose cannon who has the full potential to bring down not just his own country but take down the entire region Armageddon style with any weapon he can put his hands on.
And as he has access to a nuclear arsenal as well as the means to deliver them to his real or perceived enemies, he also can be seen as the one who is willing to use them to enforce his will.
He grew up in an ivory tower with pictures of the enemy posted on the walls.
He wholeheartedly believes in the supremacy of his clan and the teachings of his religious path over the rest of the world, especially those he sees as unworthy and these are many.
Had he not been a top member of the ruling family in Riyadh, he would be a field commander of the IS.
That is his mindset as everyone who ever had dealings with him will be able to confirm.
Like a small child, he does not know the meaning of the word "no" when spoken to him.
His way of handling the war in Yemen, his preparation of the nuclear capabilities of the kingdom and his way to handling various uprisings in his own country are the biggest threat to the kingdom.
Despite his show of opening women's rights towards a more westernized version, he is a hard liner who will suppress any one and start a war any time he feels like he is threatened or if he feels that this might advance his power in any way, regardless of the cost - especially of the cost to others.
This guy is a lose cannon who has the full potential to bring down not just his own country but take down the entire region Armageddon style with any weapon he can put his hands on.
And as he has access to a nuclear arsenal as well as the means to deliver them to his real or perceived enemies, he also can be seen as the one who is willing to use them to enforce his will.
17
The cost of the war in Yemen are said to be in the tens of billions of dollars. Can this be correct? Saudi Arabia has already an army. They are now using it which involves the cost of fuel and ammunition and the occasional loss of material and lives. But is this so expensive? Without attacking Yemen they would already have much of the costs of just maintaining the army.
I read the comments, saw this was a hit piece
'I have no dog in the fight' over Saud buying toys (oh, nice boat !)
The Real Deal, is shia v sunni, currently Saud v Iran
Our enemy is Iran, cf 'Death to the Great Satan America,' soon nuclear c/o president Obama
"Apres moi le deluge'
Saud and friends,also Israel, Egypt, are forming a containment circle, cordon sanitaire
Just as our choices, Trump/ Clinton, with Yuuge dismay, that neither is any good (outside of NYT-land), just so our choices between sides in the 1300 yo internal Islam war, neither any good
But Saud is closer to US interest (unless you opt that Saud attacked us, whom we saved in our Iraq wars, Saddam was pointed towards Saud, are the sources of 'death to America' the way we KNOW Iran is)
Saud did not as a government attack US, Iran did, US embassy is sovereign territory, spare me Mosse Dagh, Iran spares me that
No I am not paid by Saud; in these internal Islam wars, Syria, Yemen, Africa - "arm both ides and build a high fence" - except, there are dozens of sides, we cannot know which is best for us, but cheap oil is
Saud kept oil prices low, good for the US economy
Yemen? we are played like a fiddle: The Iran proxy sends a missile our way, we shoot back, suddenly WE are warmongers, then NYT does a hit piece on Saud buying toys
Obama legacy: 'Apres moi le deluge' And the Peace Prize? yup!
Oh, All Bush's Fault
Remember when Obama bowed to Saud? they must have slighted him, so he switched sides
'I have no dog in the fight' over Saud buying toys (oh, nice boat !)
The Real Deal, is shia v sunni, currently Saud v Iran
Our enemy is Iran, cf 'Death to the Great Satan America,' soon nuclear c/o president Obama
"Apres moi le deluge'
Saud and friends,also Israel, Egypt, are forming a containment circle, cordon sanitaire
Just as our choices, Trump/ Clinton, with Yuuge dismay, that neither is any good (outside of NYT-land), just so our choices between sides in the 1300 yo internal Islam war, neither any good
But Saud is closer to US interest (unless you opt that Saud attacked us, whom we saved in our Iraq wars, Saddam was pointed towards Saud, are the sources of 'death to America' the way we KNOW Iran is)
Saud did not as a government attack US, Iran did, US embassy is sovereign territory, spare me Mosse Dagh, Iran spares me that
No I am not paid by Saud; in these internal Islam wars, Syria, Yemen, Africa - "arm both ides and build a high fence" - except, there are dozens of sides, we cannot know which is best for us, but cheap oil is
Saud kept oil prices low, good for the US economy
Yemen? we are played like a fiddle: The Iran proxy sends a missile our way, we shoot back, suddenly WE are warmongers, then NYT does a hit piece on Saud buying toys
Obama legacy: 'Apres moi le deluge' And the Peace Prize? yup!
Oh, All Bush's Fault
Remember when Obama bowed to Saud? they must have slighted him, so he switched sides
1
No it is not all Bush's fault, neither is it all Obama's fault.
You have to go all the way back to 1953 and Eisenhower if you want to point fingers at an American president that got all this started. That's history.
You have to go all the way back to 1953 and Eisenhower if you want to point fingers at an American president that got all this started. That's history.
2
The worst country in the world.
A terrorist state supported by the US government.
We should nuke those islamists, but today whatsoever country in the world dont have the bravery to do it.
If we would nuke this country and Qatar, islamism and terrorist will disappear.
A terrorist state supported by the US government.
We should nuke those islamists, but today whatsoever country in the world dont have the bravery to do it.
If we would nuke this country and Qatar, islamism and terrorist will disappear.
3
When, oh when, will Western politicians denounce the Saudis for what they are, namely, the world's foremost creators and sponsors of Islamic Terrorism?
Will Western politicians ever wean themselves off the Devil's Pact with a regime that believes it can buy off any U.S. politician with bribes, kickbacks and a pledge to defend their and Israeli common interests in the region?
How much has Saudi Arabia contributed to the Clinton Foundation? (It's a legitimate question as HRC has never criticized Saudi Arabia).
Why does Obama claim a lawsuit against these terrorists would open the U.S. to lawsuits abroad, when U.S. courts have already seized Iranian money on pretexts far less obvious than the Saudi role in 9/11?
Why is the U.S. afraid of idle Saudi threats to withdraw funds from the U.S., and liquidate Treasuries, when their 'funds' are firmly ensconced in the U.S. banking system and could be seized or frozen at the drop of an Executive Pen?
There are too many "WHYs" about the U.S.-Saudi relationship, and too few answers.
Will Western politicians ever wean themselves off the Devil's Pact with a regime that believes it can buy off any U.S. politician with bribes, kickbacks and a pledge to defend their and Israeli common interests in the region?
How much has Saudi Arabia contributed to the Clinton Foundation? (It's a legitimate question as HRC has never criticized Saudi Arabia).
Why does Obama claim a lawsuit against these terrorists would open the U.S. to lawsuits abroad, when U.S. courts have already seized Iranian money on pretexts far less obvious than the Saudi role in 9/11?
Why is the U.S. afraid of idle Saudi threats to withdraw funds from the U.S., and liquidate Treasuries, when their 'funds' are firmly ensconced in the U.S. banking system and could be seized or frozen at the drop of an Executive Pen?
There are too many "WHYs" about the U.S.-Saudi relationship, and too few answers.
25
Driving an hour north of Algiers of would require a car capable of transforming into a boat, would it not? Maybe that yacht was worth the price, after all.
1
This young Prince will swiftly propulse Saudi Arabia to the 15th century.
What a progress.
What a progress.
9
Target value in real dollars of 5% of Saudi Aramco plus 95% in the Saudi Public Investment Fund by 2030 is $2 trillion.
This will rival the Norwegian Oil Fund. Founder of Aramco, Calouste Gulbenkian aka "Mr Five Percent" would find $2 trillion by 2030 a very modest target -- especially if compared with US federal employee benefit obligations, real/vested and notional, to be about $100 trillion by 2030.
John Browne did wonders for BP during the Carter/Volker and Reagan/Volker cleansing of SMEs in 1979 by securing equity with liquid commodities. Just the guarantee by Saudi Aramco can grow into a hundred trillion dollars is short order by acquiring tax stream entities in nations with the Rule of Due Process of Law.
SA has 30m population today -- 40m projected by 2030. USA 355m by 2030. Compare this with India at 1.5bn and China at 1.4bn by 2030. Capital will be in great demand. SA could accommodate nations with commodities/tax streams seeking capital.
There would be alliances with nations with legal infrastructure to manage SA loan portfolios.
Last I read was 15K US training of security forces in SA. This will likely increase rapidly. Much to learn.
This will rival the Norwegian Oil Fund. Founder of Aramco, Calouste Gulbenkian aka "Mr Five Percent" would find $2 trillion by 2030 a very modest target -- especially if compared with US federal employee benefit obligations, real/vested and notional, to be about $100 trillion by 2030.
John Browne did wonders for BP during the Carter/Volker and Reagan/Volker cleansing of SMEs in 1979 by securing equity with liquid commodities. Just the guarantee by Saudi Aramco can grow into a hundred trillion dollars is short order by acquiring tax stream entities in nations with the Rule of Due Process of Law.
SA has 30m population today -- 40m projected by 2030. USA 355m by 2030. Compare this with India at 1.5bn and China at 1.4bn by 2030. Capital will be in great demand. SA could accommodate nations with commodities/tax streams seeking capital.
There would be alliances with nations with legal infrastructure to manage SA loan portfolios.
Last I read was 15K US training of security forces in SA. This will likely increase rapidly. Much to learn.
1
"The crown prince has diabetes, and suffers from the lingering effects of an assassination attempt in 2009 by a jihadist who detonated a bomb he had hidden in his rectum". Can you believe that, a jihadist with a bomb in his rectum !
" Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump do not agree on much, but Saudi Arabia may be an exception. She has deplored Saudi Arabia’s support for “radical schools and mosques around the world that have set too many young people on a path towards extremism.” He has called the Saudis “the world’s biggest funders of terrorism.” from NY Times
" Prince bin Salman also hastily announced the formation of a military alliance of Islamic countries to fight terrorism."
If this guy is going to fight Islamic terrorism, then he deserves an expensive yacht and american support
Saudi Arabia is our a closest" ally".This guy deserves all American support
" Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump do not agree on much, but Saudi Arabia may be an exception. She has deplored Saudi Arabia’s support for “radical schools and mosques around the world that have set too many young people on a path towards extremism.” He has called the Saudis “the world’s biggest funders of terrorism.” from NY Times
" Prince bin Salman also hastily announced the formation of a military alliance of Islamic countries to fight terrorism."
If this guy is going to fight Islamic terrorism, then he deserves an expensive yacht and american support
Saudi Arabia is our a closest" ally".This guy deserves all American support
1
Your confusion is understandable. The Saudi Royals are indeed the largest sponsors of ISIS and Al-Qaeda as well as the related terrorist organizations operating world-wide, but draw the line when it comes to their own borders. Throughout his entire tenure as president President Obama, like the Bush administration before him, attempted to maintain and protect the Saudis as allies first refusing to release the 28 pages and then vetoing the JASTA bill. His partnering with the Saudi's criminal bombing of Yemen for nearly two years, is enabled only with mid-air fueling which we are providing. Prudent policy would cut off all military assistance to the Saudi, as the lawsuits enabled by JASTA will soon bring to public spotlight the undeniable Saudi role in the mass murder of Americans on 9/11.
3
What an amazing PR job. It appears that Tony Podesta is earning his fees or maybe the Saudis have other ways of getting the NYT to avert their eyes from the lack of real change in Saudi Arabia. I'm am so sick, sick of the white wash. After 9/11, our country shouldn't even have maintained diplomatic relations with these men and yet here we are enmeshed in tow civil/ religious wars on their side. It is an appalling state of affairs.
48
The Podesta Group is a Saudi lobbyist. The Times is much more interested in the Trump-Putin bromance.
7
Ancient-like rule!
I don't think the Saudi Arabia will remain Saudi in the coming decades... It cannot continue... It will become something like Arabia, Main Arabia or Central Arabia.
I don't think the Saudi Arabia will remain Saudi in the coming decades... It cannot continue... It will become something like Arabia, Main Arabia or Central Arabia.
2
The crown prince, though young, seems to bring in the element of youth in the development of Saudi Arabia. His policies are preparing for a Saudi era without oil. Yes he bought a yacht the young Prince has his own allocation and he can choose the way he wants to spend it. He has reduced visa policies and created an entertainment industry which is a big step in encouraging tourism. His relationship with the UAE ruler also shows the part in development he wants to go. The UAE ruler is one of the visionaries that have transformed UAE into a major tourist and financial hub in the middle east.
All must give the young Prince a chance. Let's give youth a a chance.
All must give the young Prince a chance. Let's give youth a a chance.
Well let's see, Saudi has:
- plenty of oil for generations to come
- universal health care
- gun control
- immigration control
- abortion control
- no homeless problem
- no drug problem
- no clogging of jails
- no clogging of courts
- a painless execution method
In many ways, a system that's probably the envy of many Americans. So yes, our voyeurism makes perfect sense, sour grapes and all. But at some point we need to stop throwing stones from glass houses, instead ask: if Trump/Clinton can get us to one-tenth of the list above, can he/she go buy a yacht on tax-payer money? Yes.
- plenty of oil for generations to come
- universal health care
- gun control
- immigration control
- abortion control
- no homeless problem
- no drug problem
- no clogging of jails
- no clogging of courts
- a painless execution method
In many ways, a system that's probably the envy of many Americans. So yes, our voyeurism makes perfect sense, sour grapes and all. But at some point we need to stop throwing stones from glass houses, instead ask: if Trump/Clinton can get us to one-tenth of the list above, can he/she go buy a yacht on tax-payer money? Yes.
6
Immigration Control? WHAT IS THAT? I'm not being sarcastic, bus as an American, I have no idea what you are talking about
2
Saudi actually has extensive issues with poverty (and mostly likely homelessness) as well as drug use, often intravenous drugs. Many people languish in jails there as well.
1
The House of Saud was established with the sole purpose of stealing the Arabian oil wealth. There was simply no other reason.
18
Reading this article and the one on Somalia makes plain the even hand and delicate relations balance required of our government officials, including the President. This is part of why Donald Trump would be an absolute disaster in the White House. A President must speak with great care, strike a delicate balance supporting our interests while trying to nudge allies like the Saudis to do the right thing in difficult circumstances all the while maintaining the sometimes tenuous connections we have. Diplomacy, which has been much maligned by the far right in recent years, is a vital tool in both national security and in maintaining balanced relationships with our allies.
28
I'm 57 years old. I' e been hearing about, reading about and seeing this American Diplomacy for a long time.
I've come to a conclusion.....if after 50 years, if whatever it is a Government is doing does not work, stop doing it!
No wait. Make that 10 years. .....5?
I've come to a conclusion.....if after 50 years, if whatever it is a Government is doing does not work, stop doing it!
No wait. Make that 10 years. .....5?
1
Saudi is our mortal enemy, not an ally. 9/11 Wahabbi
5
The American People's enemy? YES! The US Governments' Ally? YES!
Our interests no longer align. Have not aligned for a couple of generations actually
Our interests no longer align. Have not aligned for a couple of generations actually
2
Reminds me of the Churchill quote "Democracy is the worst form of government, except all those others that have been tried." Despite the rancor of the current presidential race, at least citizens in the US have a say in electing their government officials instead of suffering under the whims of an absolute monarch and those who strive to replace him.
8
I guess that's what being a Prince is all about spending Half a billion when you have axed jobs and cut salaries, good use of the money though
9
I wonder if the prostitutes are of the international variety or locals? Does he buy/ use sex slaves, or business ladies? Or does he go through a pimp?
Inquiring minds want to know
Inquiring minds want to know
1
Play an important part in making oil valueless; for you next car, buy an electric car. As long as the electricity comes from a source other than oil, then you will be playing an important part in making oil valueless. When oil is valueless, this will end forever.
22
That's one big thing. There are many smaller things that are made of plastic which comes from oil. To do without plastic is a much harder day to day lifestyle
decision to make. Start with paper over plastic bags. Better yet, a reusable bag, or no bag at all
decision to make. Start with paper over plastic bags. Better yet, a reusable bag, or no bag at all
1
At least our business schools keep the neo-liberal toxic theories alive. Every CEO in America does this to employees every day. These same dirt bags push austerity for average American citizens while keeping all benefits for themselves.
25
NY Times, please: I just came back to you after dropping you for the way you treated Bernie Sanders and his supporters. Please, stop treating the monster that is Saudi Arabia as if it was a regular country. Stop giving it attention. SAudi Arabia is as much a monster state as North Korea. Please don't dissappoint me again.
47
Know thine enemy.
2
I agree that Saudi Arabia is a as bad if not worse than North Korea. In fact, worse because it has full relations with much of the world and its greatest source of support comes from the United States, yet still is a terror export nation, and we won't even get into human rights here. But, Bernie Sanders was the far left's Donald Trump. Don't pay attention to how he's going to do anything, just hook onto his message that I found manipulative: target young people who feel disenfranchised because they didn't become Mark Zuckerburg like they all thought they would staring at their gadgets, unable to even hold a conversation. He saw his moment, and seized with a message of hate the rich and you're being ripped off. Free everything. I mean, the improbability of it all. Extremely idealistic, not based at all in practicality and by the way unfair, hateful, and misleading. Yet, still many people like him. Just like Donald Trump's core. Neither is held to a reasonable standard because they aren't in the league of reason.
1
Ditto.
a miserable backward hate filled society that, were it not for oil, would be shunned as a pariah by th civilised world
70
Saudi kingdom is the issue for the West and for the non Sunna world. It will be the big challenge for the next decade . America with Russia together must redefine a new 'Sykes Picot " for this region.
15
Saudi's are NOT Sunnis, they are Wahabi
My cousin skippered yachts for these people. His opinion was they
are just a bunch of playboys.
are just a bunch of playboys.
17
I do the yacht thing all the time: I lecture my adolescent son on the benefits of eating less so he can lose his extra pounds, then go to McDonalds myself for a big mac
4
Did he really spend that much on a yacht? Well, I guess the money for the yacht had to come from somewhere. How kind of those oil field workers to "allow" their wages to be cut to pay for the Crown Prince's new yacht. What generous workers there are in Saudi Arabia.
8
By the end of this century the Persian Gulf will have become uninhabitable for human life due to global warming. A fitting end for this most corrupt of petroleum producing nations.
13
Is this the same member of the ruling family that was involved in blocking egress during the hadj pebble throwing fiasco last year? In which hundreds were trampled to death?
3
KSA is riddled with contradictions and kept alive by the windfall of oil. As oil income drops, the contradictions will become more severe and ultimately fatal to its existence in its present form. The clock is running faster, and time is likely to run out in the next 5-10 years. Short it.
5
This is why we need Trump. How's Hillary gonna identify with a guy who drops 500 million on a boat?
9
I slowed down reading this piece when it stated the prince has diabetes and a rectum blown up by a terrorist.It was painful to focus clearly on the narrative thereafter, in more ways than one.
3
As I interpreted it, the bomb was in the terrorist's rectum, not the prince's.
I am confident the prince's rectum is intact, although it may well have activated prematurely when the bomb went off.
I am confident the prince's rectum is intact, although it may well have activated prematurely when the bomb went off.
1
It is frightening to see that Saudi Arabia which is also a driving force behind the war in Syria is such a close ally of the United States.
12
We must do everything within our power to go total electric in all facets of our economy from cars, homes to running our power grid but we must move forward. If Ford, GM, and other oil guzzling product makers refuse to change then push them aside. Why should we continue to subsidize these royals? Didn't they give us 9/11 and have yet to answer for it.
13
Besides Climate Change, I can't think of a better reason not to use oil.
7
If global warming will destroy that region may we should continue to use oil and coal too.
1
Wait...do none of you have 550 million dollar yacht? You Peasants.
3
He may need that yacht when he an his retinue have to leave town in a hurry. Don't forget that extra billion euros for expenses.
The whole rotten palace is coming down, and we as infidel mercenaries are too stupid to see that the weapons sold will be turned on us.
4
Mohammed bin Salman,seems to have a conflicted world view, and it certainly does appear that he is show-boating to get his father's attention, and to step over his older cousin, in hopes of ascending to the throne.
His call for Nationalism seems to fit with such rightist views as espoused by Trump, Le Pen (France) and Farage (U. K.), and that goes along with his attempt to attract the younger Saudis, something that has not happened with Trump and Farage.
To an extent, bin Zalman's instigating a war against the Southies seems like Bush and his Neocons, mostly draft-dodgers, moving on the cheap, and the emphasis on photo ops dwindling as the body bags started to build, and the expense was realized.
Hopefully, King Salman will realize that bin Zalman's reckless abandon, in starting a war in which he knows nothing about, and the undue costs in lives and Treasure--with oil depressed--suggests that he needs a bit more seasoning.
Hopefully, the King's brothers and other senior family members will convince the King that his son is too young. Let him wait his turn!
https://thetruthoncommonsense.com
His call for Nationalism seems to fit with such rightist views as espoused by Trump, Le Pen (France) and Farage (U. K.), and that goes along with his attempt to attract the younger Saudis, something that has not happened with Trump and Farage.
To an extent, bin Zalman's instigating a war against the Southies seems like Bush and his Neocons, mostly draft-dodgers, moving on the cheap, and the emphasis on photo ops dwindling as the body bags started to build, and the expense was realized.
Hopefully, King Salman will realize that bin Zalman's reckless abandon, in starting a war in which he knows nothing about, and the undue costs in lives and Treasure--with oil depressed--suggests that he needs a bit more seasoning.
Hopefully, the King's brothers and other senior family members will convince the King that his son is too young. Let him wait his turn!
https://thetruthoncommonsense.com
building that $550 million dingy put a lot of folks to work. it is called "trickle down economics" over here.
3
anyone spending a half billion dollars on a yacht is a dangerous sociopath. And any politician holding his hand is a dangerous traitor to Western culture.
13
Before the Harding, Coolidge, and Hoover Republicans gave the House of Saud from Nejd the Shia oil from the East, the Tribe's main profession was making a living by robbing Muslim pilgrims’ caravans to Mecca.
They justified it in their family motto: “Rizq-na elaihim, wa rizq-him il-Allah” – our sustenance is from them (pilgrims) as theirs is from Allah.
For this 80 year long perfidy, we paid a price with 9/11. Full 15 of 19 operatives were from the Tribe of Nejd. There is an Invisible Hand after all.
They justified it in their family motto: “Rizq-na elaihim, wa rizq-him il-Allah” – our sustenance is from them (pilgrims) as theirs is from Allah.
For this 80 year long perfidy, we paid a price with 9/11. Full 15 of 19 operatives were from the Tribe of Nejd. There is an Invisible Hand after all.
197
great comment: the cozy relationship between successive administrations and the House of Saud has had baleful consequences, culminating in the scourge of world Jihadism and 9/11
a particularly unsavory aspect of this unsavory relationship are the close ties between the House of Saud and the House of Bush
a particularly unsavory aspect of this unsavory relationship are the close ties between the House of Saud and the House of Bush
3
Errrr....Harding, Coolidge and Hoover "gave" the Al Saud family the oil of Saudi Arabia....?
Yes. Like giving Texas oil to Massachusetts.
In 1920-32 oil had recently been discovered in East Arabia where Shia sat. Republicans went to Shia notables telling them to give their oil "for free" in return of a state and protection. Shia showed them the door.
Reps turned to the Sauds, from oil-less water-less central Nejd, then a band of brigands fighting progressive Sunni Hejazis and moderate Turks, assuring them a state and protection on promise of "free oil". an offer Sauds could not refuse. Kingdom of Saudi Arabia was born.
Faustian deals never pay off. 9/11 was Saudi gift to us for giving them Shia oil.
The Shia sit on 95% of the ME oil, and all of its water. Now a wisened America on deathbed conversion wants to return oil to Shia (in hope of manipulating them a la Saud for yet another century).
US Armed Forces Journal plan by Lt Col Ralph Peters (2006) wants the kingdom split in 3:
- an Islamic “Vatican”
- an oil-less Saudi Nejd
- an oil-rich Arab Shia Oil Megastate under our tutelage.
http://www.armedforcesjournal.com/2006/06/1833899
Our dream is to befriend the Shia once more, hoping to milk them for the next 100 years as we milked the Sauds. Will Iran and Russia play ball or be spoilers? A fool is one doing the same thing again and again, and hoping for different results.
In 1920-32 oil had recently been discovered in East Arabia where Shia sat. Republicans went to Shia notables telling them to give their oil "for free" in return of a state and protection. Shia showed them the door.
Reps turned to the Sauds, from oil-less water-less central Nejd, then a band of brigands fighting progressive Sunni Hejazis and moderate Turks, assuring them a state and protection on promise of "free oil". an offer Sauds could not refuse. Kingdom of Saudi Arabia was born.
Faustian deals never pay off. 9/11 was Saudi gift to us for giving them Shia oil.
The Shia sit on 95% of the ME oil, and all of its water. Now a wisened America on deathbed conversion wants to return oil to Shia (in hope of manipulating them a la Saud for yet another century).
US Armed Forces Journal plan by Lt Col Ralph Peters (2006) wants the kingdom split in 3:
- an Islamic “Vatican”
- an oil-less Saudi Nejd
- an oil-rich Arab Shia Oil Megastate under our tutelage.
http://www.armedforcesjournal.com/2006/06/1833899
Our dream is to befriend the Shia once more, hoping to milk them for the next 100 years as we milked the Sauds. Will Iran and Russia play ball or be spoilers? A fool is one doing the same thing again and again, and hoping for different results.
Saudi Islam, since its inception,has been the inspiration for most vicious and persistent terrorism directed against non muslims. That Islam has wiped out non-muslims from entire countries like Iran, Iraq, Pakistan and continues to exterminate non-muslims in every muslim majority state in west and south asia.
8
Saudi Islam never spread to Iran
Its your kind which keep these despots in power and hence get terrorism in return-capiche Bubba?
1
One can only imagine that he will unhesitatingly tell the rest of us around the world to take in yet more Muslims. After all, he clearly can't afford to help them himself!
4
Any "playboy" wasting this amount of money on a vanity luxury-toy such as a yacht or plane (e.g., Mohammed or Trump) cannot be taken seriously as a public-sector leader or reformer.
This guy is more of a "phony" just as Mitt Romney correctly characterized Trump early-on.
This guy is more of a "phony" just as Mitt Romney correctly characterized Trump early-on.
6
Mohammed bin Salman, Saudi Arabia’s deputy crown prince, is a war criminal. This brash 31 year old prince is a spoiled brat who thinks that his war in Yemen is a video game. His formed coalition of mercenaries and failed Arab states is nothing but a cover up for slaughtering Yemeni Civilians. The Royal family spends millions and may be billions at the Baccarat and Roulette tables in London, Monte Carlo and Nice while spreading Wahabbism, killing Yemeni civilians, and denying basic human rights to Saudi citizens.
I hope and just hope that the US will eventually look this Saudi playboy in the eye and order him to stop that game.
I hope and just hope that the US will eventually look this Saudi playboy in the eye and order him to stop that game.
17
"Order him?" Is that really how you think things work? That our government just goes around telling leaders of other governments what to do, and they comply?
.
Besides being either innocent or ignorant, it is dangerous to hold that idea. That kind of thinking informs a person's world view, which affects the way they vote. You might be tempted to vote for someone who also believes that to be the case. Thinking that way is bad enough, but acting on it has consequences.
.
Besides being either innocent or ignorant, it is dangerous to hold that idea. That kind of thinking informs a person's world view, which affects the way they vote. You might be tempted to vote for someone who also believes that to be the case. Thinking that way is bad enough, but acting on it has consequences.
4
Unfortunately you are mistaken. Yes : order him. If it is not for the US or the West, and the need for oil, This kingdom would have never been founded or lasted. Read you history.
I just became a lot more committed to energy reduction. Thank you.
10
When you can blow $550m on a yacht, $25m to the Clinton Foundation is peanuts paid to grease a $38bn arms deal.
14
The austerity measures and that yacht: that's the doom awaiting the House of Saud. When that house falls, it is going to fall hard and it may take the world economy with it.
We have not paid enough attention to Robert Baer's 2004 book, Sleeping With the Devil, about how the younger generation could wreck the Saudi state; so many of them just get stipends for breathing. Perhaps Prince bin Salman can fix things before it's too late, but he'd be better off starting a business to employ Saudis with that $550 million. I know it's just chump-change to him, but still...with the war in Yemen and jihadis hiding bombs up their bums, anything can happen. And probably will.
We have not paid enough attention to Robert Baer's 2004 book, Sleeping With the Devil, about how the younger generation could wreck the Saudi state; so many of them just get stipends for breathing. Perhaps Prince bin Salman can fix things before it's too late, but he'd be better off starting a business to employ Saudis with that $550 million. I know it's just chump-change to him, but still...with the war in Yemen and jihadis hiding bombs up their bums, anything can happen. And probably will.
7
Peak Oiler:
Good comment: Equally good is Robert Baer's book "The Devil We Know", a strong plea for the U.S. to ditch Saudi Arabia and befriend Iran, based on common interests. I recommend the book to everyone because, as former CIA Middle East Station Chief, Robert Baer (fluent in Arabic and Farsi) knows the Saudis and the Iranians intimately, and it is clear whose interests he believes to be closer aligned to those of the U.S..
Good comment: Equally good is Robert Baer's book "The Devil We Know", a strong plea for the U.S. to ditch Saudi Arabia and befriend Iran, based on common interests. I recommend the book to everyone because, as former CIA Middle East Station Chief, Robert Baer (fluent in Arabic and Farsi) knows the Saudis and the Iranians intimately, and it is clear whose interests he believes to be closer aligned to those of the U.S..
4
Thanks! I plan to read that book now. Baer needs a bigger audience. I've long said that the Iranian theocracy is only going to last as long as it can keep its thumb on its young populace.
It's OPEC money being blown before they disband the fated cartel. With the price of renewable energy sources being driven down (thanks China) the fossil fuel industry is hemoraging and most leaders who aren't profiting by contributing to climate change are using this critical time to ween themselves off oil-baed energy. Of course, this won't be completed by ten years from now, but the fact that even OPEC members are getting sober about this, means that these Princes of self serving politics will be getting mean (austere) and ugly with anybody they deem a threat.
4
At least they are all ready for a picnic.
4
Vision 2030 this:
One day in the not too distant future this 'kingdom' will be relegated to the scrap heap of history where it belongs. But not before we spend untold trillions more cleaning up the detritus of these pampered princes'.
One day in the not too distant future this 'kingdom' will be relegated to the scrap heap of history where it belongs. But not before we spend untold trillions more cleaning up the detritus of these pampered princes'.
3
John Kennedy and FDR angered their contemporaries also. Rich kids with no elevator down or respect for seniority. i have no idea ifPrince Salman will be a great leader. But, there is no doubt in my mind that Saudi Arabia needs great leader. Good Luck Salman.
Will you continue to tie the Saudi star to the US, cast your fate to independence, or find new allies in the Middle East? In any event, the current Saudi leaders will all be dead when you complete your reign, if things go well for you. (I'll be gone too)
My advice... War is coming to the Kingdom. The Kingdom needs a general,not a playboy leader. And Generals don't need yachts. Good luck. You've already made one big mistake.
Will you continue to tie the Saudi star to the US, cast your fate to independence, or find new allies in the Middle East? In any event, the current Saudi leaders will all be dead when you complete your reign, if things go well for you. (I'll be gone too)
My advice... War is coming to the Kingdom. The Kingdom needs a general,not a playboy leader. And Generals don't need yachts. Good luck. You've already made one big mistake.
2
This reads like "I, Claudius".
2
Syriana.
1
How does Hillary feel about the Saudis? Let me guess- All I have to do is log on to her website and read about her position...
3
Wildest part of this article is discovering that the wife of the Governor of Riyadh can't get a US visa and that even senior Saudi royals must go to the American embassy for visa interviews and finger printing. BCIS is the ultimate leveller in its crudity.
12
Hey, if you can afford $550M for a boat --- you and your country could afford to take more refugees from Syria, Libya, Iraq etc...
18
Except that not even refugees want to live in Saudi arabia. Given a choice between a dinghy to Europe and a bus trip to Saudi craziabia, they choose the former being desperate but still not insane people.
Just because Bill Gates can afford to buy a $500m yacht doesn't mean that America can afford to take in thousands more refugees. Comparing apples with oranges...
Will the kingdom continue to promote and teach its children extreme jihadist, regressive Islam and abhorrent antisemiitism and anti-Israel propaganda?
7
Of course they will. Their fanatical brand of Islam is the source of their power!
2
Of course they will.
Saudi Arabia's Wahhabi establishment has splintered by the Chechen Leader Ramzan Kadyrov whom has sided with the Iranians. The Saudis will be friendless soon and broke after the lawsuits go through the courts of America. Who would have ever thought that the western powers would let these guys wage world wide terror on their own nations and not retaliate?
4
Hope for those lawsuits...
Why did American voters allow the Bush-Cheney-Halliburton alliance and their donors slip the wool over their eyes to allow Big Oil's interests to take precedence over America's NATIONAL interests?
The GOP Congress' newfound outrage about the Saudi royal family's involvement in funding Al Qaeda and other Sunni terrorist groups, including ISIS, is parallel to their newfound outrage about Trump and the psychological terrorist attacks he's waging on our homeland.
The GOP Congress' newfound outrage about the Saudi royal family's involvement in funding Al Qaeda and other Sunni terrorist groups, including ISIS, is parallel to their newfound outrage about Trump and the psychological terrorist attacks he's waging on our homeland.
1
Now that shale has shattered these despots hold on us, why not call a spade a spade?
Imagine if Israel would treat their women citizens like the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia? Imagine the UN people fulminating...
Where is the outrage instead of a Times puff video piece with a Times female correspondent ironically titled "Ladies First" & covered like a mummy?
Imagine if Israel would treat their women citizens like the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia? Imagine the UN people fulminating...
Where is the outrage instead of a Times puff video piece with a Times female correspondent ironically titled "Ladies First" & covered like a mummy?
12
We are seeing the results of a very well resource charm offensive. The Saudis are very well connected to the Bushes and the Clintons. It's disgusting and it will destroy this country. Our leaders just want the checks.
6
Errrr....the orthodox right is taking over in Israel and it's only a matter of time before the secularists are fully pushed aside. Then you will see the true meaning of fundamentalism.
1
Let's not forget that Saudi Arabia plunged us into an extended Hell in 1973 by embargoing oil shipments to us because we supported Israel in the Arab -Israel war of that year . The Saudis are our " allies " when it behooves them . The same can be said of us also with respect to them .
10
The Saudis are allies of the US elite in WAshington DC and Hollywood. They have bought them over, so that the Bushes and the Clintons and the Obamas use the US military as unpaid mercenaries in pursuit of Saudi interests. They are not allies of Americans, just that of our elite.
5
Fifteen of the nineteen hijackers on 9-11 were Saudis--NOT ONE was from Iraq or Iran!
4
Well, the prospects of the Prince and his perhaps kingdom would be brighter if he showed a bit of smarts --buying a yacht for $500m, and forcing Saudi Arabia into an unwinnable war in Yemen show a blatant disregard for money and his people.
14
the great Prince of Saud needs me to help him make wise decisions...for that money, he should have a fully self sustaining nuclear sub which lasts 100 years. Soares...an american style democracy in Iraq?
1
sounds very american... slash wages, and buy yourself a new yacht
37
where do you think they learned it
many of those guys went to wharton and harvard bizz
2
Just another Wahabbi tyrant. He should have no ties with us and receive no support. And, yes, low oil prices are great for american human persons- even if they hurt wall street russians and wahabbis.
14
Hey, prince, you want to come to the US with a visa, then get fingerprinted like the rest of us. We're no criminals either but those are what some things (like getting a concealed carry permit) and some jobs require.
Welcome to the world you didn't know existed. And might understand better if you did.
Welcome to the world you didn't know existed. And might understand better if you did.
6
Mohammad bin Salman sounds a lot like Donald bin Drumpf.
10
...and why not with the US taking care of training pilots, selling jet bombers, and providing anti-Houthi bombs and missiles?
12
Now that the war on Iraq is behind us one thing is clear. We invaded the wrong country.
25
Just who told you that the war in Iraq was behind us? In that part of the world, wars are never "over." Rather, they go on and on and on, eternally; the Shiite/Sunni conflict has been simmering for over 1,300 years now. Some tribal frictions are even older. Grievances are carefully nurtured and allowed to fester, until another round of armed conflict breaks out again. America's recent military adventures in Iraq and Kuwait are just a couple of short chapters in what has already been a very long novel, still unfinished. Now that we have involved ourselves in Iraq, we are stuck in that conflict.
The only happy ending to this story would be if he doesn't follow anyone who came before him! Really--Saudi is the epitome of everything that needs to be changed in this world. Make not of it Saudi 'prince'!
7
Great way to get overthrown. Spend 500million on your hobbies, slash salaries. The Shah of Iraq followed this path. Didn't work out to well for him.
10
The Shah of Iraq?
He borrowed a page from corporate America's playbook. Slash salaries while paying yourself 100m a year! Not to mention the 400m severance package when they finally get rid of you for gross incompetence/fraud.
Oops, Iran. Sorry.
You gotta give him, Mohammed bin Salman, credit. He did buy used.
17
those people know bargains when they see them
It is a nice ship.
Paying 550 million on a whim, now that's a drastic austerity measure, Saudi-style!
7
Until the popular pressures from below force the ruling Saudi dynasty to undertake such democratic reforms as could widen popular participation in decision making and unshacle the society from the repressive tradition rooted in obscurantist social religious practices, the cosmetic reforms being pushed by the Deputy Crown Prince Salmon would mean nothing except a part of power struggle to gain supremacy.
12
Does anyone else think entitled brats are getting too big for their breeches?
Unfortunately, they're our sustenance too. What a mess: damned if you do and damned if you don't.
Unfortunately, they're our sustenance too. What a mess: damned if you do and damned if you don't.
15
Said some Roman 2000 years ago...
3
Well, Mohammed,
If you want to take over Saudi Arabia, here's some advice:
One, drag your country, though your men will go throwing kicking fits, into the twenty first century. If you can't drag them that far, try getting them into 1910.
Two, quit treating the women like chattel. Why is your country so backwards in regards to women's rights? It's pathetic. Your country is the laughing stock of the world. Women should vote. They should have the jobs and educations that they want. They should drive, for heaven's sakes. They should have the right to divorce and the men who beat them up/rape them should be prosecuted even if three other men don't see the attack.
Two, get out of Yemen. You have no business there.
Three, human rights. The way you treat people is appalling. Anyone for another beheading at a soccer match?
Four, apologize for setting up schools around the world that promote attacks on the US. Acknowledge and apologize for your country's role in September 11. Your billions helped to produce those schools and those maniacs.
Five, freedom of press. Freedom of religion. Freedom of speech. Freedom to live in a modern society, not one ruled by archaic rules by an oppressive religion. Freedom from hijabs and burkas forever. Why are the women still wearing yards of black fabric that make them invisible?
Six, educate your young people and teach them to work. They have had generations of examples of easy, lazy government jobs and subsidies.
And no more yachts.
If you want to take over Saudi Arabia, here's some advice:
One, drag your country, though your men will go throwing kicking fits, into the twenty first century. If you can't drag them that far, try getting them into 1910.
Two, quit treating the women like chattel. Why is your country so backwards in regards to women's rights? It's pathetic. Your country is the laughing stock of the world. Women should vote. They should have the jobs and educations that they want. They should drive, for heaven's sakes. They should have the right to divorce and the men who beat them up/rape them should be prosecuted even if three other men don't see the attack.
Two, get out of Yemen. You have no business there.
Three, human rights. The way you treat people is appalling. Anyone for another beheading at a soccer match?
Four, apologize for setting up schools around the world that promote attacks on the US. Acknowledge and apologize for your country's role in September 11. Your billions helped to produce those schools and those maniacs.
Five, freedom of press. Freedom of religion. Freedom of speech. Freedom to live in a modern society, not one ruled by archaic rules by an oppressive religion. Freedom from hijabs and burkas forever. Why are the women still wearing yards of black fabric that make them invisible?
Six, educate your young people and teach them to work. They have had generations of examples of easy, lazy government jobs and subsidies.
And no more yachts.
144
Katie for president
1
Yeah, don't forget to add to your list - the dissolution of the "religious police" those that make life in KSA unbearable to citizens as well for foreigners.
4
Sorry, but where from did you get all your inspiration? Wall Street? Vietnam, Irak, Afghanistan? Guantanamo? Trump and Bill's respect for women? Black lives matter?
I wonder
I wonder
Part of the problem. A large part. I pray for a revolution in KSA in my lifetime.
19
What's funny is there is no mention of liberation and democracy. Weren't those the reasons to invade Iraq, illegally? So why allow an autocratic regime to continue?
32
They weren't the "reasons" so much as the "excuses."
2
We are helping them in Yemen, right?
17
Yeah, he lowered the salary of Saudi citizens? Also Saudi based companies (under these reforms) have use slave labor. Immigrant workers do not possess any right. Thousands of thousands immigrant workers on the streets after companies decided to declared bankruptcy. These workers stranded in KSA, sleeping on the streets, not being able to access water of food.
32
In fifty or a hundred years when their oil wealth is gone, Saudi Arabia and the other rich Arab gulf states will melt back into the desert from which they came.
47
One can only hope. Too bad I won't be around to see it. They are despicable.
I am so looking forward to that.
1
Too late for me to witness.
1
fyi the yacht was built for the Russian at a cost of $330m, so he overpaid by more than $150m.
19
is your house worth what it cost to build it?
Good for Vodka producer ,fast $150 million
The Russian probably could have asked for 650 million Euros and would have gotten it. Prince wanted the yacht so bad that the deal was done in a matter of a few hours and the Russian vacated the yacht the same day! Mohammad didn't care how much he was paying for it. He was not spending out of his own money and he doesn't care that half of his countrymen in the south are living in severe poverty! What a sad state of affairs.
4
Monstrous behavior backed by religion and defended by brute force. As medieval as it gets, enabled since WW2 by the US, as long as all SA oil and gas contracts are denominated in US$.
52
Excellent comment, Raymond, that's what U.S. belligerence (and disingenuously blaming Russia and Iran) is all about. Qaddafi and Saddam and Khamenei all initiated steps to end Dollar hegemony and the U.S. could not permit that to happen. Result? 2 million dead, 10 million wounded and 25 million displaced in 3 simultaneous civil wars.
Oh well, .........
Oh well, .........
2
This article makes it sound like some age old tradition was broken by the Saudi Prince. If they can take an ancient land and name it after their family and get to kick around 28 million people in it, I hardly think buying a $550 million yacht is newsworthy. There is nothing age-old about the Saudi family.
41
I couldn't be happier that oil prices are so low
42
Problem is that they are investing in the EU and US and UK so when their country goes south (I believe they don't give a damn about their shiites citizens and pay of their Sunni citizens to appease them) they can always live somewhere else with their money. As many super wealthy have done for decades. We let it happen because of their investments. Perhaps we should buy oil from other places until they can bring a bit more equality economically to all their people. Get rid of this dictator like system. Much of their religion is 500 years behind. They don't care if woman have many children even though they must know the planet can no longer support millions of many more children. It makes me worry about our beautiful planet. Yes indeed the masses need to rise up. The refugees from Syria need to go to Saudi Arabia, not to the EU as their backwood thinking about women clashes with the modern world.
3
This is obscene
28
The baleful effects of the devastating "Saudi" led 9/11 attacks have led to the rise of neo-fascism and a national security state at home. Yet few Americans bother to question their own political/economic establishment's mantra of "we were attacked because of our freedom and not because of what we do". The American equivalent of "4 legs good, 2 legs bad". In reality, the American continuation of ruthless Anglo-French imperialism in the region directly led to the attacks. The US could have supported democracy and the development of healthy middle classes in the Muslim world and engaged in mutually beneficial trade. Following the Sykes-Picot carve up of the Ottoman State, the King-Crane commission made clear that the region's people admired and trusted only the democratic USA to administer League of Nations Mandates in the region. Instead, the US allowed the Israeli and Oil Despot lobbies to control its policy in the region which is the real reason "why they hate us". These degenerate despots like the Saudi and Al-Nahayan families came to power directly under the patronage of British Imperialism as a way to siphon off the natural resource wealth of the Muslim world and are now kept on their thrones by US Cent Com. Under Obama's feckless leadership these same forces were allowed to derail the Arab Spring in Egypt, Bahrain, Yemen, and Syria. As long as the West undermines democracy and development in the Muslim world, it will find its own democracies undermined as well.
93
How convenient of you to blame everything on US/UK past policies? I do agree that they made their fair share of mistakes, but to blame all ills of Middle Eastern countries on US/UK is patently false. These conspiracy theories are peddled and accepted widely in the Muslim countries. I thought you, living in the US, might see through the fallacy of these arguments peddled by Jihadis. I guess this is too much to expect from even Muslims living in the US and that is very disappointing, to say the least.
Actually I am a widely published academic scholar of the region and US policy there. As a fellow American citizen, you should be the one getting a better education about the disastrous policies successive American governments have pursued there with "allies" like the despotic Saudi family. You might try Chalmers Johnson's Blow Back or even the CIA's Michael Scheur and his revealing book Imperial Hubris. Andrew Bacevich, whose son died in the Iraq fiasco, has also written an excellent recent scholarly work. The truth can hurt and make one uncomfortable but it is also necessary-especially for people living in democratic countries which is a privilege denied to most people in the Middle East by both local despots and the external forces who have long supported them.
2
Delusional version of historical fiction.
Saudi Arabia ( aka The House of Saud ) is not a nation. It is a family company posing as a country.
The Saudi Royals are a cabal of brash, ego-maniacal, mysoganistic men with a thin veneer of civilization, who buy faux-friends with their obscene wealth emanating from petro-dollars
( One could campare them to say a gaggle of Donald Trumps or Robert Mugabes - can you imagine it ?!)
The House of Saud also covertly sponsors terror around the world whilst overtly speaking against it. The clan lives by the laws and mores of the Muslim Middle-Age. Their human rights abuse against so many groups is monumental and the rest of the world pretends to look the other way because of purchased alliances - none more so than successive USA administrations of both Reps and Dems - for which the US leadership needs to be ashamed.
Whilst these barbarian princes continue to dominate the world and peddle their influence there is little hope of reform - and Mr Mohammed bin Salman will make sure its business as usual.
The Saudi Royals are a cabal of brash, ego-maniacal, mysoganistic men with a thin veneer of civilization, who buy faux-friends with their obscene wealth emanating from petro-dollars
( One could campare them to say a gaggle of Donald Trumps or Robert Mugabes - can you imagine it ?!)
The House of Saud also covertly sponsors terror around the world whilst overtly speaking against it. The clan lives by the laws and mores of the Muslim Middle-Age. Their human rights abuse against so many groups is monumental and the rest of the world pretends to look the other way because of purchased alliances - none more so than successive USA administrations of both Reps and Dems - for which the US leadership needs to be ashamed.
Whilst these barbarian princes continue to dominate the world and peddle their influence there is little hope of reform - and Mr Mohammed bin Salman will make sure its business as usual.
54
No Arab loves the desert. We love water and green trees. There is nothing in the desert and no man needs nothing. - Prince Feisal
Solar panels and wind turbines for as far as the eye can see. Mohammed bin Salman could make Saudi Arabia the alternative energy king of the world.
Solar panels and wind turbines for as far as the eye can see. Mohammed bin Salman could make Saudi Arabia the alternative energy king of the world.
7
Just wait for the oil to run out. And one day in the near future it surely will. The next day these guys will be back to riding their camels in the desert. I wonder how they plan to feed themselves off the land, desert sand land that is.
1
From US point of view, which Saudi prince best promotes democracy, equality, civil rights, economic justice, press freedom?
That is who the US should be supporting.
That is who the US should be supporting.
4
The same shallow, immature logic in analyzing Trump -- "wow, he's just fine since he's a 2/10 when we though he was a zero" -- seems to apply here.
This is a deeply backward, ignorant, racist, misogynist, fundamentalist society that should get zero credit for possibly, perhaps, pointing in the direction of someday being a tad less backward, ignorant, racist, misogynist, and fundamentalist than now.
This is a deeply backward, ignorant, racist, misogynist, fundamentalist society that should get zero credit for possibly, perhaps, pointing in the direction of someday being a tad less backward, ignorant, racist, misogynist, and fundamentalist than now.
30
To think we provide them with weapons. How can our administration live with it? I am a progressive woman and wonder what is behind this? What is it we don't see? to keep supporting this evil regime? I still don't know why we intervene in Syria, in Libya, in Iraq, in Afghanistan. Everything I read doesn't at up to spend trillions of $ on war making? What is the secret game we are playing?
3
Unfortunately for all the last time a Middle East monarchy attempted to modernize via adopting a meritocracy we had the shah deposed by the revolutionary guards. This outcome is waiting patiently.
1
It is no accident about the excesses of their monarchy and autocratic rule. It is like heroin. They are the big supplier. The rest of the world is addicted to oil.
8
The Absolute Monarchy of Saudi Arabia will give way as have all absolute monarchies from the time of ancient Upper and Lower Pharaonic Egypt the land of the crook and flail, as the Bourbons of france who fell to the French Revolution in 1789 and lost their heads to Mere Guillotine. The young Prince Mohammed bin Salman who is maneuvering to transform Saudi life from the Middle Ages, medieval time to the 21st Century, is another example of an absolute monarchy in dire trouble. At least bin Salman was able to buy a $550 million yacht, the Serene,in just hours from the Russian oligarch, who moved out immediately so bin Salmon could move in. Cool deal. Nice job. The shattering of decades of royal tradition won't be taken kindly by Salman's immense family of Saudi royals, who resist modernization with age-old Wahhabism and medieval treatment of their womenfolk. Saudi Arabia will eventually drown its people in its oil.
6
The comments so far show an almost unanimous hatred of Prince bin Salman, based on his being a member of the Saudi royal family and on his yacht.
The article explains that bin Salman wants to diversify the Saudi economy, curb religious conservatives' power, loosen social restrictions, and reduce reliance on the United States for its military defense. Evidently he is popular among young Saudis who are tired of rule by "the older generation," the six sons of the country's founder.
This is the first I've read at length of this deputy crown prince. Surely his portrait is more nuanced than "bad Saudi royal buys big boat."
politicsbyeccehomo.wordpress.com
The article explains that bin Salman wants to diversify the Saudi economy, curb religious conservatives' power, loosen social restrictions, and reduce reliance on the United States for its military defense. Evidently he is popular among young Saudis who are tired of rule by "the older generation," the six sons of the country's founder.
This is the first I've read at length of this deputy crown prince. Surely his portrait is more nuanced than "bad Saudi royal buys big boat."
politicsbyeccehomo.wordpress.com
49
Ecce Homo, my guess is that your comment was an "NYT Pick" mainly because it was probably the only one defending this War Criminal.
Have you bothered to view the videos of the aftermath of his repeated and relentless carpet bombing of Yemen?
Have you bothered to view the videos of the aftermath of his repeated and relentless carpet bombing of Yemen?
4
Mr. Varzi,
I most certainly did not defend bin Salman - I argued that his portrait is not pure evil, but "more nuanced." People who pursue war, even deeply wrongful wars, might still do good things. Lyndon Johnson burned up Vietnam for no particularly good reason but also won some of the most important civil rights legislation in American history. Even Adolph Hitler built the Autobahn.
I agree that the Saudi use of military force against the Houthi rebels in Yemen has been nearly indiscriminate and that bin Salman bears the bulk of the blame. That doesn't change the fact that bin Salman's efforts to liberalize Saudi religion and society are a very good and desperately needed thing.
politicsbyeccehomo.wordpress.com
I most certainly did not defend bin Salman - I argued that his portrait is not pure evil, but "more nuanced." People who pursue war, even deeply wrongful wars, might still do good things. Lyndon Johnson burned up Vietnam for no particularly good reason but also won some of the most important civil rights legislation in American history. Even Adolph Hitler built the Autobahn.
I agree that the Saudi use of military force against the Houthi rebels in Yemen has been nearly indiscriminate and that bin Salman bears the bulk of the blame. That doesn't change the fact that bin Salman's efforts to liberalize Saudi religion and society are a very good and desperately needed thing.
politicsbyeccehomo.wordpress.com
1
get rid of the boat, and swap "reduce reliance on the United States" to reduce reliance on Russia", and you have Assad Jr.
1
A lot of middle eastern petroleum wealth is used to influence the American government by disguising it as payments for "speaking fees", and making our leaders lackeys of wealthy middle eastern regimes.
28
$550 Million could have provided free housing for every working-class citizen stuck in unaffordable apartments. What is wrong with the wealthy, that they need so much for themselves?
23
The Saudi journalist's quotes were taken way out of context, so I'm not sure the site being shut down has anything to do with it. The whole article was about glorifying the prince and mentioning his achievements inside the kingdom, those quotes were like a lover's advice at the end of the article.
If the prince was not pleased with his remarks I'm sure he would have found a more direct way to silence him.
If the prince was not pleased with his remarks I'm sure he would have found a more direct way to silence him.
1
What I hear here is the tremendous disconnect from reality of the princelings of the House of Saud. It doesn't really matter whether it is Mohammed bin Salman or someone else, none of them have the least clue as to how the other half -- I mean, the other 99.99% -- lives. Buy a yacht, or don't, it doesn't really matter. The only thing that could matter would be if someone from the royal family actually decided that their reputation, not just their influence, on the world stage really mattered.
12
"I am persuaded..that the ruling family of Saudi Arabia above all puts the interest of the family first and foremost", said Mr. Kechichian, the analyst who knows many royals.
There is no long-term future in the Middle East for the L'Etat c'est moi political philosophy, although many have tried. and still govern by that rule
Saudi Arabia though is not the only country in the region with autocratic monarchies.
The problem is that changing the system will probably be the result not of peaceful political transition, but of a bloody region-shattering upheaval.
There is no long-term future in the Middle East for the L'Etat c'est moi political philosophy, although many have tried. and still govern by that rule
Saudi Arabia though is not the only country in the region with autocratic monarchies.
The problem is that changing the system will probably be the result not of peaceful political transition, but of a bloody region-shattering upheaval.
9
And we need to get out. Make sure the young men stay back in the Arab world and fight for their freedom instead of fleeing to the EU. They need to fight for their freedom instead of trying to flee from helping these oppressive regimes to be thrown into the sand. Perhaps a French revolution is imminent in those repressive regimes?
It would be timely to read the late Matt Simmons' "Twilight in the Desert" which casts authoritative doubt on the veracity of the oil reserve reports of Saudi Arabia. Matt's workpapers were reviewed and endorsed by a Nobel laureate.
Given the glut of oil, the Saudis may have a plunge in cash flow in their decidedly undiversified economy.
Given the glut of oil, the Saudis may have a plunge in cash flow in their decidedly undiversified economy.
17
He shows great study and confidence in certain economic orthodoxies. A rising tide lifts all boats. In anticipation of the coming occasion, his royalness got himself a better boat.
14
A rising tide lifts all YACHTS.
1
Horrifying. That $500 million could have been spent addressing climate change, which is going to make Saudi Arabia uninhabitable. No water, temperatures that are unsurvivable -- the world's rich seem to have decided to party until the lights go out. For shame.
106
Think of big business, Wall Street,the mining industry, the farming industry, the forest industry and several other industries, and how much their lobbyists have spent in Congress and the Senate to block any agenda to control climate change in the USA.
"You know who is against democracy in the Middle East? The husbands. They got used to their way of life. Now, the traditional way of life must change. Everybody must change. If you don't give equal rights to women, you can't progress."
- Shimon Peres
Saudi Arabia is a medieval, misogynist, Wahhabist, Salafist time-bomb doomed to an unpleasant fate unless it finds a way to exit the 8th century.
- Shimon Peres
Saudi Arabia is a medieval, misogynist, Wahhabist, Salafist time-bomb doomed to an unpleasant fate unless it finds a way to exit the 8th century.
472
While the Wahhabis are in the Salafi tradition the Salafi tradition is actually much broader and varied. It demeans the Salafi tradition to treat the Wahhabis as its sole exponents.
That applies to Orthodox Jews as well.
At least they don't completely control the Israeli government.
At least they don't completely control the Israeli government.
Well....the same can be said for the Orthodox Jews of Israel, who are gradually and inexorably taking over that country.
The saudis are a sad bunch. The people have been bought off for decades. If that stops hopefully the royals will be on the street. This whole scam is sick, just like the Thais who love their king who robbed them for decades. The Arab Spring needs to come alive again. The US needs to drop the saudis like a hot rock. We would be much better off with Iran. If not for the cia in the 50s Iran would be a democracy today. We owe them a lot of help to get back to that.
85
I agree with you, but Bebe would throw a major hissy fit. Netanyahu would call up the President, and all the many de facto dual nationals in congress and other "Israel Firsters" in high places and that would stop this immediately.
3
This is our gas dollars at work.
100
It's more than a bit overblown to claim that Americans are dependent on Saudi Arabia for their oil needs.
Two-thirds of our gas dollars are kept at work inside the borders of the US. The US is the 3rd largest producer of oil in the world, behind Saudi Arabia and Russia.
The top source of oil imports for the other third for the US is Canada. Saudi Arabia is second, while Mexico, Valenzuela, and Colombia are the rest of the top 5. Canada supplies more oil to the US than all Middle Eastern nations combined. So do the nations of Latin America.
So the vast majority of the oil used by the US comes the western hemisphere.
Who are Saudi Arabia's largest customers for oil? China and India. Most of the oil produced by Saudi Arabia and other middle eastern nations goes to Asia.
Two-thirds of our gas dollars are kept at work inside the borders of the US. The US is the 3rd largest producer of oil in the world, behind Saudi Arabia and Russia.
The top source of oil imports for the other third for the US is Canada. Saudi Arabia is second, while Mexico, Valenzuela, and Colombia are the rest of the top 5. Canada supplies more oil to the US than all Middle Eastern nations combined. So do the nations of Latin America.
So the vast majority of the oil used by the US comes the western hemisphere.
Who are Saudi Arabia's largest customers for oil? China and India. Most of the oil produced by Saudi Arabia and other middle eastern nations goes to Asia.
1
Welcome to the crass class of the Arabs/Muslims.
He bought a half billion $$ yacht "on-the-fly" to satisfy his impulsive unhinged joy. Instead of investing in building schools, roads, hospitals, or funding universities in Egypt, Sudan, Morocco, or Bangladesh, he bought himself a half billion $$ toy to enjoy with his entourage.
Al Saud have been looting God given wealth (they never earn it) for their own self indulgence far too long.
On the contrary,since the fall of the shah, not a single Iranian from the ruling elites was ever mentioned as living in any outlandish way like Al Saud.
At least Iran's president is elected by the people. Not ruling by divine decree like the shameless corrupt Al Saud claim.
He bought a half billion $$ yacht "on-the-fly" to satisfy his impulsive unhinged joy. Instead of investing in building schools, roads, hospitals, or funding universities in Egypt, Sudan, Morocco, or Bangladesh, he bought himself a half billion $$ toy to enjoy with his entourage.
Al Saud have been looting God given wealth (they never earn it) for their own self indulgence far too long.
On the contrary,since the fall of the shah, not a single Iranian from the ruling elites was ever mentioned as living in any outlandish way like Al Saud.
At least Iran's president is elected by the people. Not ruling by divine decree like the shameless corrupt Al Saud claim.
166
Iran: No truly elected government (pre-screening extensive), no equal rights for women, no human rights, no liberal education, no religious freedom, no free press. Doomed.
I share a previous poster's wish that the article had illuminated the Prince's view on arguably the most important long-term issue facing Saudi Arabia: the status of women.
Beyond that, I have some trouble with the notion of a would be "reformist" who is impetuous in his foreign policy decisions, arrogant in his desire to lecture world leaders and superbly self-indulgent and hypocritical in calling for cutbacks in the Kingdom's spending even as he shells out $550 million on the spot for a yacht that's nearly 1.5 football fields long.
Beyond that, I have some trouble with the notion of a would be "reformist" who is impetuous in his foreign policy decisions, arrogant in his desire to lecture world leaders and superbly self-indulgent and hypocritical in calling for cutbacks in the Kingdom's spending even as he shells out $550 million on the spot for a yacht that's nearly 1.5 football fields long.
65
Isn't that what the 1%ers do in the USA to thwart any efforts to change the tax rates for the poor, lower medicare costs, and improve life for the impoverished in the USA?
There's an old expression that goes something like this:
"Point a finger at someone, and three point back to you"
There's an old expression that goes something like this:
"Point a finger at someone, and three point back to you"
This is our friend ?
Who cares.
He can lower everyones salary, he can continue to suppress women, he can donate to the Clinton Foundation, but at the end of the day who cares. If anyone out there thinks Saudi Arabia is our friend look at the photos of the debris of the World Trade Center.
911 brought to us though the deep friendship of our Saudi friends. They are one of the few countries in the world with slavery, with the complete abject abuse of women, of foreigners, of the people of Yemen.
The Saudi's have sponsored terrorisim throughout the world. Our own country has been their prime supplier of weapons. Our country sacrificed our soldiers, our children to protect the Saudi monarchy. Our country just fired missles at the people of Yemen.
Why ? Why ? Why ?
OIL Thats it folks. We sold our soul to the highest bidders for oil.
These internationalists have nothing in common with the American people, they would cut your head off at the drop of a hat. These extremely rich playboys who can drop a half billion dollars on a whim. So if you want to concern yourself with the Saudi's that your concern, as for me, I don't care.
Who cares.
He can lower everyones salary, he can continue to suppress women, he can donate to the Clinton Foundation, but at the end of the day who cares. If anyone out there thinks Saudi Arabia is our friend look at the photos of the debris of the World Trade Center.
911 brought to us though the deep friendship of our Saudi friends. They are one of the few countries in the world with slavery, with the complete abject abuse of women, of foreigners, of the people of Yemen.
The Saudi's have sponsored terrorisim throughout the world. Our own country has been their prime supplier of weapons. Our country sacrificed our soldiers, our children to protect the Saudi monarchy. Our country just fired missles at the people of Yemen.
Why ? Why ? Why ?
OIL Thats it folks. We sold our soul to the highest bidders for oil.
These internationalists have nothing in common with the American people, they would cut your head off at the drop of a hat. These extremely rich playboys who can drop a half billion dollars on a whim. So if you want to concern yourself with the Saudi's that your concern, as for me, I don't care.
254
Why do we add to this absolutist monarchy's brutal war against Yemen?
80
We no longer need them, so they are in trouble. And the trouble is of their own making.
55
If the price of oil stays low for the next few years this prince might just find himself literally drowning in the excess along with the rest of his corrupt family.
83
I doubt this guy can survive politically after starting and losing the Yemen war.
I also doubt there is any way to salvage the mess the Saudis have made of that war.
US involvement might make it drag out long, being worse and more expensive for the Saudis and this guy, but even the US can't save him. And his miserable hide is not worth any tiny part of the sacrifice the US would have to make to do that. In fact, that would only make things worse for him in defeat.
I also doubt there is any way to salvage the mess the Saudis have made of that war.
US involvement might make it drag out long, being worse and more expensive for the Saudis and this guy, but even the US can't save him. And his miserable hide is not worth any tiny part of the sacrifice the US would have to make to do that. In fact, that would only make things worse for him in defeat.
76
We call for liberation of Hejaz.
1
Well, maybe. But as usual the Saudis do as they wish (as in Syria) and then coall on mummy USA to take care of the mess. Yemen will be the mess of the USA, with Saudia Arabia waking away whistling a happy tune, as in Syria where the Saudis started this "rebellion" mainly with non-Syrians and Washing, as usual, savisjhly back them.
Fascinating!
An absolute monarchy, equivalent to a European monarchy of the 15th century, attempting to reconcile its barbaric and utterly outdated political society with 21st century globalism.
Only because they won the lottery of black gold resources, do we and other nations kow-tow to this group of medieval upstarts, who less that 80 years ago rode camels in the desert!
An absolute monarchy, equivalent to a European monarchy of the 15th century, attempting to reconcile its barbaric and utterly outdated political society with 21st century globalism.
Only because they won the lottery of black gold resources, do we and other nations kow-tow to this group of medieval upstarts, who less that 80 years ago rode camels in the desert!
282
well the joke is on Americans whose politicians can so easily be bought off by these people.
46
That and the fact that the massive military forces of your own government keep these degenerate despots in power which directly leads to terrorism as well.
36
Riding camels in the desert isn't the problem. It's not even reprehensible. What is reprehensible is the way they've spread a poisonous Islamic fundamentalist doctrine throughout the world, killed thousands of innocent people in Yemen and helped Isis to prosper. Yes, they buy our weapons, including $90 billon of those over the last year or so. But that price is too little tho pay for what we get in return.
45
This epitomizes the reasons for my ongoing antipathy towards the Kingdom of Saud. A (relatively) progressive dauphin seeking limited liberalization of how the country is governed has the ability to spend upwards of 500 million on a plaything, monies that could be allocated towards poverty alleviation, refugee housing, healthcare and education for disadvantaged Muslim children, a scholarship fund for Muslim women, or any one of hundreds of ways in which the lives of Muslims could be improved worldwide. How can this be justified in any realm? An oppressive (and excessive) monarchy that facilitated and exported the devastating ideology that led to the rise of violent extremism worldwide clearly has no business remaining the stewards of Islam especially when it's mere existence runs counter to everything that the prophet preached.
Promoting this Prince as a breed of 'new' royal engaged in transforming the Kingdom creates the illusion that a real shift in the country is possible, while still maintaining the expensively serendipitous habits of the monarchy.
Promoting this Prince as a breed of 'new' royal engaged in transforming the Kingdom creates the illusion that a real shift in the country is possible, while still maintaining the expensively serendipitous habits of the monarchy.
340
If you have been reading the papers the King of Thailand has died. Thialand where you have too do almost anything to eat.
The Monarcy in property alone is worth $51 billon, The Prince just bought two home just a few miles from each other in Germany spending $22 million.
The poor stay poor and can not afford to go to University and even get a basic education.
It runs in the Royal families ME ME ME ME If you love your people then why dont you help the poor.
The Monarcy in property alone is worth $51 billon, The Prince just bought two home just a few miles from each other in Germany spending $22 million.
The poor stay poor and can not afford to go to University and even get a basic education.
It runs in the Royal families ME ME ME ME If you love your people then why dont you help the poor.
2
You got it! Sometimes these kinds of public statements coming from the House of Saud is more marketing than real social change or reform. You cut funds for the middle class and the poor...and then you buy yourself a $ 500 million yacht. This makes sense only in the Saudi Royal kingdom...not for anyone with real brain cells, better critical thinking or greater social values.
7
We agree lets work together to liberate Hejaz.
So with a dwindling petroleum cash flow these unelected royals are jockeying for who will get sovereign control over a new generation who want modern freedoms. The game changer for that generation, and for those of us who are fed up with the games the Saudi royals have played on the world stage, will be a cheap reliable battery technology for storing wind and solar power, analogous to how the solid state transistor set off the digital revolution. That power revolution can't come soon enough for me..
183
that kind of wealth is dizzying almost sickening. It is obscene to buy a yacht for that much money while the world around struggles with hunger and poverty.
It is the year one with this world, you expect to see Moses coming down the mountain with the laws.
It is the year one with this world, you expect to see Moses coming down the mountain with the laws.
24
"He has slashed the state budget, frozen government contracts and reduced the pay of civil employees, all part of drastic austerity measures as the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia is buffeted by low oil prices."
And than he bought a 550 million dollar yacht. What a lousy example as leader; therefore he is not a leader he is just a spoil rotten man-child.
And than he bought a 550 million dollar yacht. What a lousy example as leader; therefore he is not a leader he is just a spoil rotten man-child.
248
Yep...he's a prince and our leaders LOVE him. Obama falls all over himself to make sure the prince and the rest aren offended. I sick of it.
Maybe he needs to reign in the thousands of princes and the rest of the 15,000 members of the Al Saud family. Cutting back on spending for him should equate to a 495' yacht versus a 500' yacht.
17
Yes, whenever you want to reinvent the economy, start with the yacht. That is my theory too.
258
Well, an expensive yacht probably requiring the hiring of a thousand servants and concubines.
Although I doubt they are well paid.
And most are probably impoverished migrants from places like the Bangladesh and the Philippines.
Although I doubt they are well paid.
And most are probably impoverished migrants from places like the Bangladesh and the Philippines.
14
Basically Sadi Arabia is a corrupt dictatorship, giving the religious fundamentalists money and Madras' so the ruling clan can run around London and Cannes buying 500 million dollar yachts and boozing it up. The quicker Saudi Arabia falls, the better. The entire post WWII structure that the (so called) Great Winston Churchill set up is a disaster (including his BP directed assassination of the Democratically elected President of Iran). For shame, for shame, so many of our young men dead and so much treasure wasted, all because we want cars instead of mass transit so we can run to suburbs and self segregate, instead of living near one another. Our lust for oil is disgusting and self defeating for us, for the citizens of the Middle East (particularly Women and young people) and for the health of the entire planet.
402
It's nice to see someone else has Churchill's number. The Iranians got even with the Brits. Their embassy used to face Winston Churchill St.
The Iranian government renamed the street. It's Bobby Sands Street. Rumor has it the Brits made the old back door of the embassy the new front door rather than have Bobby Sands' name in their address. The Brits' demands that the street be renamed fell on deaf ears. It's one little victory, but they add up.
The Iranian government renamed the street. It's Bobby Sands Street. Rumor has it the Brits made the old back door of the embassy the new front door rather than have Bobby Sands' name in their address. The Brits' demands that the street be renamed fell on deaf ears. It's one little victory, but they add up.
5
Yes the quicker it falls the better. We are calling for the liberation of Hejaz.
1
Interesting, I had never heard that. I visited Booby Sands grave last time in Belfast, then had a pint and toasted him at the Felon's club.
This article pretty much shows why the efforts to turn Saudi Arabia from a clientelistic state based on patronage into a less oil reliant economy are going to fail. You can't ask a whole nation to cut back on its expectations while you shell out $550 million for a yacht you got hot for while on vacation. This is Louis XVI telling the peasants to cut back on their meals.
515
Yes Louis XVI lost his position because of economic trouble, but it was caused in large part by lending to the US for our war of independence. Not by telling peasants blah blah blah ..... We repaid his generosity by maintaining after he was beheaded that we did not have to pay back the new revolutionary government that deposed him.
2
Let them eat cake?
"Let them eat cake."
The day oil runs out, they would suddenly realize they are a bunch of insignificant, medieval, desert dwellers who nobody cares about. Till then, gloat in your misogyny, your sponsoring of terrorism, your human rights abuse while the rest of the world pretend to look the other way because they need what is flowing underneath you and crown prince bin goat can buy his 500 million dollar yatch.
417
Run of the mill American hate speech disparaging other cultures. If you'd have read the article, you would know that they are investing for the day when there is no oil. From their pov they respect women, you may recall barefoot, pregnant & in the kitchen is a Western tradition. And I'd bet they can all spell "yacht."
6
That's what the problem is: they know they are insignificant and all the money in the world has not changed that. Hence: the anger and terrorism. It's not about religion. It's about ego. Hence: the yatch.
Jealous?
USA made a deal w/ the devil....and the Saudis.
USA made a deal w/ the devil....and the Saudis.
Someone mentioned "improving the lot of Saudi women." Give me a break. Most Saudi women are complicit in their own subjugation, because they believe in their Wahhabi religion. They are generally treated very well, as long as they stay in the house, shuffle around in their $500 slippers, fiddle with the air conditioning and stay the course as breed mares (since a Saudi man is not considered a real man unless he spires at least six or eight children). The article mentions some trepidation because the prince might bring too much change, too fast. Saudis are *always* worried about too much change too fast. It will be two hundred years before personal freedom looks anything like neighboring Dubai.
148
Out of curiosity, how many Saudi women do u personally know?
4
I am curious why you mention Dubai as if it is a role model. The Dubai "royals" are not that different from Saudis except for the Wahhibism. All work is done by foreign labor. Unless one is born into the right tribe, one can never become a citizen of Dubai even if born there.
Not all work. I worked there in a professional capacity. My wife did too. We lived almost like you would in some European capital. As for the locals, young women could at least drive themselves to college, although most of them had to drive right back home after class. College for them was essentially structured like high school. As for the silly question "how many Saudi women do I personally know." If you work there a total of ten years, you do learn a bit about the society.
1
He ain't any prince of Norway, which benefits from Oil as well.
Remove OIl, and there is no Saudi Arabia, or any of its glorified princes, or their ilk. But you will always have a Norway.
Norway owns it's Oil. But Oil owns the Saudis.
Remove OIl, and there is no Saudi Arabia, or any of its glorified princes, or their ilk. But you will always have a Norway.
Norway owns it's Oil. But Oil owns the Saudis.
346
and Saudis own Americans.
28
Some facts: Saudi Arabia is the 2nd largest producer of oil in the world @ 12 million barrels/per day. The U.S is the top producer and Russia, a petroleum dependent economy, stands at third place. Meanwhile, Norway is a non-OPEC oil producer that ranks 15th in the world @2 million barrels/per day, so your point is rather missed; and with both massive production and vast reserves, the Saudis are most probably not exiting the world economy anytime soon..
1
Not really.
Ah yes, palace intrigue! But why should we care in this 70s Gottidammerung
19
Royalty is an absurdity as evidenced by this guy's priorities.
317
Actually King Bhumipol of Thailand lived a modest and a humble life, and spent his entire 70 years reign in helping villagers, rural communities of Thailand, farmers, improving Public Health, bringing education for women, etc. Look at photos of Thailand 70 years ago and look at it now. He is not perfect and he himself admits that. But he was thousand times better than the hypocritical playboys and religious nuts of other royal family elsewhere.
25
With this election cycle, I really don't think we. Americans have any room to criticize monarchy as a form of government. A rational monarch would be a welcome ballast to the craziness that would result from a Trump presidency.
2
Wut? Bhumipol has a fortune of at least $31B according to the NYT (in Thailand, a poor country with few natural resources beyond agriculture and fishing) and has undermined any attempts at democracy in Thailand. His crown prince makes Salman look like an angel.
4
Successful societies have the following characteristics: Democratic systems of government, empowerment of women (equality), free press, liberal education, and religious freedom. Saudi Arabia has none of these and therefore will always be an inferior entity. Pitiful.
329
Rome lasted a thousand years, Venice, another thousand. Democracy has never been successful. Republics, maybe.
14
Democracy is not practiced in full anywhere on Earth because the mob of 51% always overcomes the thoughtful & wise when straight democracy is in the rule of law. This is why we maintain a representative Republic.
Freedom of religion is a sideshow in importance, mostly a fertilizing agent for hypocrisy, and very often a cultural joke, as can be seen by Santeria and Mormonism and David Koresh and Southern Baptists. It is separation of church and state that allows governments to uphold justice. Success requires freedom FROM religion.
Freedom of religion is a sideshow in importance, mostly a fertilizing agent for hypocrisy, and very often a cultural joke, as can be seen by Santeria and Mormonism and David Koresh and Southern Baptists. It is separation of church and state that allows governments to uphold justice. Success requires freedom FROM religion.
24
Because Rome lasted a thousand years does not mean it is the civilized model. What do you get in terms of creativity when a government oppresses its own people! Surely there has been a gap between the idealism of democracy and the reality of how people are treated. Sometimes it is the idealism pushes us to do better and other times it is better to understand the reality and construct an idealism.
1
It's shocking to me that throughout this lengthy article, which details many of the contender Prince bin Salman's policies, hopes and views, that there is no mention of his position on improving the lot of Saudi women. Does he favour giving them the vote, the right to drive, the power to choose to work, study and travel without the permission of a male family member? These are important issues.
615
and does he continue their monstrous murder of LGBT people?
40
Iran women have all of that but again we have been friend with the one who doesn't.
19
As in Orthodox Judaism, the women have roles that are traditional not progressive. This is the case under all religious governance.
18
What will the US do to get democracy everywhere, incl Saudi Arabia. If successful we might have a sharp drop in global militancy.
6
All I am interested about him is -- What does he think about radical Islamic terrorism, and Saudi Arabia's role in it ?
100
Quite possibly he supports it completely
7
to willw:
It is a bit more complicated than that. You can be a member of the Saudi ruling class and be even an atheist on the inside, I am sure there are at least liberal-minded "royalty" among them, but that whole clan a long time ago made their pact with the devil, namely the Wahhabist fundamentalist religious leaders (the most popular of whom has 12 million followers on twitter) who offer the ruling class Islamic legitimacy in the eyes of the brainwashed populace, all in return for money and status for themselves and unquestioning acquiescence by the Saud clan to the goals of teaching and spreading of radical Islam both at home and abroad.
So it is a quid pro quo situation that leads to the skimming by a very small minority of 20-30% of the oil revenues every year, plus freedom to pursue reckless policies like the Yemen and Syria wars and Wahhabist indoctrination globally with again about 20-30% of those revenues, and only then passing what remains as subsidies to the general populace.
Of course, a very significant chunk of that money they either keep for themselves or spend on wars end up in US and UK defense and oil companies' and politicians' pockets.
It is a bit more complicated than that. You can be a member of the Saudi ruling class and be even an atheist on the inside, I am sure there are at least liberal-minded "royalty" among them, but that whole clan a long time ago made their pact with the devil, namely the Wahhabist fundamentalist religious leaders (the most popular of whom has 12 million followers on twitter) who offer the ruling class Islamic legitimacy in the eyes of the brainwashed populace, all in return for money and status for themselves and unquestioning acquiescence by the Saud clan to the goals of teaching and spreading of radical Islam both at home and abroad.
So it is a quid pro quo situation that leads to the skimming by a very small minority of 20-30% of the oil revenues every year, plus freedom to pursue reckless policies like the Yemen and Syria wars and Wahhabist indoctrination globally with again about 20-30% of those revenues, and only then passing what remains as subsidies to the general populace.
Of course, a very significant chunk of that money they either keep for themselves or spend on wars end up in US and UK defense and oil companies' and politicians' pockets.
13
He's a Wahabi like all the Saudi ruling family, so he will seek to continue spreading the extreme ideology of Wahabism, which is how Islamic terrorism was founded.
10
God save us.