Susan Dominus writes: “Zucker (the woman Trump and Billy Bush meet coming off the bus) is game to play along when Bush presses her to answer which of the two men she would pick. “Both!” she finally says. Maybe Zucker thinks that she is in on the joke. But really, we know, the power is all theirs. It is not just that the two men have erased her as a person…it is that they share the knowledge that they have done so, silently, collectively, which amplifies their power over her.” Ms. Dominus, presumption is not power. Presumption is fantasy that may actually put one at a disadvantage. I knew a girl who was determined not to pay too much attention to a guy she was convinced liked her so she could get the upper hand. He never made a move on her. A man can think till dooms day and discuss with others how charming he is to women and still get nowhere! So the presumption that because these men erased her as a person that ipso facto the person is erased, comes close to presumption of infantile omnipotence. All I saw was a woman who was in full control being trailed by men who looked very ill at ease.
2
What club is Bill Cosby a member of?
3
Am I alone in noting the irony here of vulgar language intended for private consumption being disseminated by broadcasters to millions of listeners under the banner of condemning it?
This is not a world which "women rarely see"; we've been living in it and now it is finally at the forefront because it is on the front page of newspapers everywhere.
7
Roger Ailes is a like-minded colleague working in Trump's campaign...no?
3
With conduct deplorable,
The Donald, quite horrible,
Should be now expendable,
His party upendable.
His lies are so risible.
His presence debatable,
His ego inflatable
Is all too pin-prickable.
The Don, reprehensible,
With nose ever sniffable,
Commander in-chief-able?
Now that's unbeliefable!
The Donald, quite horrible,
Should be now expendable,
His party upendable.
His lies are so risible.
His presence debatable,
His ego inflatable
Is all too pin-prickable.
The Don, reprehensible,
With nose ever sniffable,
Commander in-chief-able?
Now that's unbeliefable!
8
I wonder who Donald's role model for Presidential behavior was?
1
Don't blame Trump exclusively for the pronoun problem. Even Queen B proudly proclaimed,"If you liked IT then you should have put a ring on IT!"
"Bush, acting as a two-bit pimp, asks Zucker to hug Trump, and then asks for a hug himself."
Exactly.
Exactly.
3
IF, and I do mean a big IF, any of the Podesta file release is true, there is one piece of information that is more important than any other piece of information in it.
“Newly-leaked WikiLeaks emails reveal that last August, John Podesta, Hillary Clinton’s campaign manager and well-Known member of the UFO and alien disclosure movement, exchanged emails with former NASA astronaut Edgar D. Mitchell, the sixth man to walk on the moon, in which they talked about ongoing contact with extraterrestrial intelligence (ETI), risk of space wars, UFOs and the threat of ETI intervention in world affairs. One of the emails that Mitchell sent to Podesta also reveals that the sixth man to walk on the Moon believed the Pope and the Vatican have conclusive evidence of alien life and ETI visitations to Earth. Mitchell warned Podesta about the existence of a non-violent ET species willing to share what he called “zero point energy” technology with humanity. But the ETI would not share the technology if humans continue to keep nuclear armaments and fight wars.”
Hillary Clinton states that she will release UFO or Unexplained Aerial Phenomenon (UAP) information as long as it does not affect national security.
Donald Trump on the other hand "I would bomb the shit out of ’em," "I wanna be unpredictable," and "I love war.", “why can’t we use nuclear weapons”.
“Newly-leaked WikiLeaks emails reveal that last August, John Podesta, Hillary Clinton’s campaign manager and well-Known member of the UFO and alien disclosure movement, exchanged emails with former NASA astronaut Edgar D. Mitchell, the sixth man to walk on the moon, in which they talked about ongoing contact with extraterrestrial intelligence (ETI), risk of space wars, UFOs and the threat of ETI intervention in world affairs. One of the emails that Mitchell sent to Podesta also reveals that the sixth man to walk on the Moon believed the Pope and the Vatican have conclusive evidence of alien life and ETI visitations to Earth. Mitchell warned Podesta about the existence of a non-violent ET species willing to share what he called “zero point energy” technology with humanity. But the ETI would not share the technology if humans continue to keep nuclear armaments and fight wars.”
Hillary Clinton states that she will release UFO or Unexplained Aerial Phenomenon (UAP) information as long as it does not affect national security.
Donald Trump on the other hand "I would bomb the shit out of ’em," "I wanna be unpredictable," and "I love war.", “why can’t we use nuclear weapons”.
2
Once again it isn't just what he said or how he said it; it's the predatory nature of what he's confessing to have done.
It's bad enough to name call and otherwise show a high level of disrespect for women, but it's criminal to engage in the kind of pawing and groping he sounds so proud of.
How could this lout be President?
It's bad enough to name call and otherwise show a high level of disrespect for women, but it's criminal to engage in the kind of pawing and groping he sounds so proud of.
How could this lout be President?
4
Poor Donald. When he opens his mouth and says stupid things out on the hustings, why, folks scoff, call him a liar, or gag at the notion that he's "smarter than all of the generals" about ISIS, smarter than the IRS when it comes to taxes, and smarter than Marco Rubio on everything else.
But when he gets recorded, way out over his skis, or slippers as the case may be, why, Susan Domino's is just sure he's that capable, constant and cringe worthy crotch-grabbing interloper. That his demeanor changes utterly when he's confronted by a beautiful woman in the video is missed, dismissed or ignored.
Banished from the headlines is the story of Hillary Clinton, after having called half of the electorate "deplorable," telling the swells at Goldman-Sachs that the OTHER half are gullible saps that cannot be trusted with the truths she shares for the tidy sum of $225,000.
Yes, we've got one candidate saying horrible things about half the population when he doesn't think he's being recorded, and another one who demands to be paid big bucks to gush something at least as awful, and then stuffs the transcript in her purse and blames the Russians.
The biggest scandal of this election cycle isn't Donald, it's a free press so obscenely tied to Oligarchy that Vladimir Putin and Julian Assange can't leak the ugliest political reality of the year and have it rise above a murmur in the media.
Want to explore moral outrage, Susan? Write about that.
But when he gets recorded, way out over his skis, or slippers as the case may be, why, Susan Domino's is just sure he's that capable, constant and cringe worthy crotch-grabbing interloper. That his demeanor changes utterly when he's confronted by a beautiful woman in the video is missed, dismissed or ignored.
Banished from the headlines is the story of Hillary Clinton, after having called half of the electorate "deplorable," telling the swells at Goldman-Sachs that the OTHER half are gullible saps that cannot be trusted with the truths she shares for the tidy sum of $225,000.
Yes, we've got one candidate saying horrible things about half the population when he doesn't think he's being recorded, and another one who demands to be paid big bucks to gush something at least as awful, and then stuffs the transcript in her purse and blames the Russians.
The biggest scandal of this election cycle isn't Donald, it's a free press so obscenely tied to Oligarchy that Vladimir Putin and Julian Assange can't leak the ugliest political reality of the year and have it rise above a murmur in the media.
Want to explore moral outrage, Susan? Write about that.
1
The things Trump says on that 2005 tape are NOT Boys' Club comments. They are the claims/boasts of a very damaged person. Young men (college age) may comment upon a woman's anatomy when no women are around, as I suspect women do regarding men, when only women are around.
But "bragging" that he can't resist kissing and groping beautiful women is ludicrous. It's what a closeted homophobe might boast to his male buddies, to prove that his machismo is the same as theirs. Trump is not so much a misogynist as a very, very insecure man. No normal man, rich or poor, handsome or not so much, thinks it is admirable to be a guy who "grabs" a woman's vagina. Who kisses a strange woman without being invited to do so.
The guys who talked like that as I was growing up were drunks, closeted homophobes, pedophiles, and seriously damaged people...people trying very hard to create the (misguided) impression of male virility, unaware of how ridiculous they sounded.
There is far more involved than meets the eye (or ear) when it comes to Mr. Trump.
But "bragging" that he can't resist kissing and groping beautiful women is ludicrous. It's what a closeted homophobe might boast to his male buddies, to prove that his machismo is the same as theirs. Trump is not so much a misogynist as a very, very insecure man. No normal man, rich or poor, handsome or not so much, thinks it is admirable to be a guy who "grabs" a woman's vagina. Who kisses a strange woman without being invited to do so.
The guys who talked like that as I was growing up were drunks, closeted homophobes, pedophiles, and seriously damaged people...people trying very hard to create the (misguided) impression of male virility, unaware of how ridiculous they sounded.
There is far more involved than meets the eye (or ear) when it comes to Mr. Trump.
12
I am a Bernie Baby and I was going to sit this out or throw to Stein. Thanks to this piece Hillary, you are getting my vote. Don't make me regret it.
27
Every left-wing woman fantasizes that there's some boys' club where men sit around and say lewd things about women.
This simply isn't true. Men have better things to talk about. And, oddly enough, the women who worry about this tend to have no sexual capital.
This simply isn't true. Men have better things to talk about. And, oddly enough, the women who worry about this tend to have no sexual capital.
Just as sick as our insane governor here in Maine. It's really time to clean the Augean Stables of these things called "Republicans" - these are not the Republicans I grew up with.
16
It's time for the Republicans to understand that they are victims of a conspiracy. It's called, "their stupidity, corruption, and vice."
5
Pretty interesting that a Bush was involved with this scandal. Could that have to do with Access Hollywood and NBC not releasing it sooner? They are only sorry they got caught.
5
I have been in locker rooms for much of my 65 years, and never heard or engaged in this kind of talk about women. It is about how you are raised to be a man.
It is an insult to men as well as women. It informs his out of touch narcissism, and the adolescent misogynistic bully.
It is an insult to men as well as women. It informs his out of touch narcissism, and the adolescent misogynistic bully.
30
I second this. I am 77 years old and have spent a good deal of time in locker rooms and have never heard exchanges anywhere nearly as blue as those on the tape--exchanges which seem so commonplace to Donald Trump and, given this evening's interview on MSNBC, also to Rudy Giuliani.
I guess I could just never afford to be in the locker rooms of the more exclusive clubs--the one's frequented by the wolves of Wall Street et al.
I guess I could just never afford to be in the locker rooms of the more exclusive clubs--the one's frequented by the wolves of Wall Street et al.
6
"If an injury has been done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared." Machiavelli.
Another little gem: "The vulgar crowd always is taken by appearances, and the world consists chiefly of the vulgar."
Hillary's campaign chairman John Podesta takes his little copy of Macchiavelli's book to bed with him every night, and then in the morning confides what he has read to the Queen.
Another little gem: "The vulgar crowd always is taken by appearances, and the world consists chiefly of the vulgar."
Hillary's campaign chairman John Podesta takes his little copy of Macchiavelli's book to bed with him every night, and then in the morning confides what he has read to the Queen.
3
Many comments are capturing the sexism imbedded and supported by our culture. Shaun R. Harper a researcher of masculinity and professor at U. of Penn helps explain what a good deal of the media and political pundits are missing.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2016/10/08/many-men-tal...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2016/10/08/many-men-tal...
2
Agree with all the substance of this article of course. However, the notion that Trump represents the "old boys club" does not seem right to me. At least from where I sit, on the other side of the pond, Trump would not be accepted in any "old boys club". Think all the evils you want of old boys clubs, but admitting the likes of Donald Trump is not one of them.
6
Congratulations good Republicans, you have snatched defeat from the jaws of victory. Mostly by ignoring all 996,000,000 warning signs that you were betting on the wrong dog and it will bite you.
14
While I'm in agreement with almost everything here, I do ask that at least a few of you put a mic in a women's locker room some time.
1
would like to be able to blame the victims?
Obviously the GOP should move to ban "All's Quiet on the Western Front" as this is the book that Donald Trump said 'was his most recent read' - and it obviously had a corrupting influence - or at least it's Cliff's notes did. It couldn't have been the BIBLE that gave him these notions, what with King David's 'electric blanket made of virgins' and whatnot. You own this tripe Evangelicals/GOP it's all yours. And Trump's OK right - his own pastor for hire just said God forgave him.
5
This is just the last gasp of the Stop Trump train. It's too late guys. Fox is in the henhouse. Now he's got leverage. He'll want $1B. He knows the Kochs can cough it up with Shelly 50/50. Your move.
3
We here in Chile hope this kills the Donald because we see him as a Pinochet-military re-instatalment pawn, who views all 'southern countries' like women to be raped or fired.
11
Here in Texas they like Trump because he's their kind of man: proud, aggressive, uncaring of others, arrogant, insensitive, nasty when criticized, and a racist rapist at heart. That's about 57% here. Sad, but, Texas.
12
My husband and my son are native born and reared Texans...PLEASE, never equate all Texas men to Donald Trump...
They are both HRC supporters and definitely not mysogynists in any way...
I know many Texas men who in most other ways are decent human beings but they apparently will vote Trump simply because he is on the Republican ticket. The RNC needs to grow a pair and disavow Donald Trump who is burning that party to the ground with his narcissism...
They are both HRC supporters and definitely not mysogynists in any way...
I know many Texas men who in most other ways are decent human beings but they apparently will vote Trump simply because he is on the Republican ticket. The RNC needs to grow a pair and disavow Donald Trump who is burning that party to the ground with his narcissism...
To Trump this is the entitlement and license he offers to his backers.
He will not back down.
Voting is the only way to get rid of him.
After that, ignoring him is the only way to finish him off.
Just turn off the set whenever he comes on the day after he loses.
He will not back down.
Voting is the only way to get rid of him.
After that, ignoring him is the only way to finish him off.
Just turn off the set whenever he comes on the day after he loses.
13
"It is not just that the two men have erased her as a person, during their conversation on the bus; it is that they share the knowledge that they have done so, silently, collectively, which amplifies their power over her. It is all unspoken, a clubby secret, a male form of control based on exclusion."
Powerful words and absolutely true based on my experience in the work place. Even if some of those conversations are completely innocent and professional, the behavior is so familiar, a woman can no longer trust the motives behind the secrecy.
Powerful words and absolutely true based on my experience in the work place. Even if some of those conversations are completely innocent and professional, the behavior is so familiar, a woman can no longer trust the motives behind the secrecy.
12
As an asian woman in her twenties, I have grown up used to and hardened to a certain behavior from white men such as that recently on display at FOX NEWS where 'massage' jokes somehow infiltrate the first moments of conversation.
Trump when asked by Howard Stern if he had 'ever slept with a black chick?' responded, "I may have, if I couldn't tell the difference, I don't know."
Racism and sexism all in one neat little package. And the GOP is just distressed over the fact he's hitting on and being mean to a white woman (their daughter). Disgusting. Pence especially, disgusting.
Trump when asked by Howard Stern if he had 'ever slept with a black chick?' responded, "I may have, if I couldn't tell the difference, I don't know."
Racism and sexism all in one neat little package. And the GOP is just distressed over the fact he's hitting on and being mean to a white woman (their daughter). Disgusting. Pence especially, disgusting.
10
Living in a country where whites are encouraged to occupy certain neighborhoods and are consigned to barbarian status provides a white, ivy league educated executive with a certain perspective on all this. There is a huge legacy of Japanese sexism and the 'Geisha effect' along with the 'schoolgirl trope' that has crippled their whole culture. It still reverberates in all Asia from its WWII manifestations. Seeing Trump in action shows how America and Americans are viewed in reverse as just your garden variety thug rapist. Really not much different from the mob on the Indian bus, just a little less crowded piling out.
4
Never again should a woman be able to ignore or discount the motivation behind the mask. Nor should men, for that matter.
1
No blacks or immigrants on this bus, I observe, so all behavior and results must be completely consistent with the Republican ethos and brand!!
3
There are 40 some years of rejoinders by a male-chauvinistic-pig, remarks from a sexual-predator and confessions of a sexual-assailant, all quoted from Donald Trump's own mouth, in numerous articles saved in various archives and in hours of interviews on miles of stored tape. Enough to disillusion even most ardent Deplorable - well, maybe...
Why the articles and tapes weren't being outed around 16 or so months ago, when this disaster of a campaign and election cycle was still avoidable and preventable, is a question for which the media - hopefully - will be put on the spot under bright-lights to account.
Why the articles and tapes weren't being outed around 16 or so months ago, when this disaster of a campaign and election cycle was still avoidable and preventable, is a question for which the media - hopefully - will be put on the spot under bright-lights to account.
5
How about those competent Republicans? They are so focused on manufacturing lies about Hillary that they just plum forgot to research their front runner while he was throwing stuff at their heads and calling them 'low energy.'
How about holding the RNC to its own account.
Like the biggest rubes at the fair they went drooling for the shill.
How about holding the RNC to its own account.
Like the biggest rubes at the fair they went drooling for the shill.
Although the sociology of the Trump phenomenon is not nearly as scintillating as Mr. Trump's prurient psychology, it is virtually always true that in these circumstances the emergence of an aberrant personality is much less critical than the vulnerability of large numbers of people who are engaged by and enamored of that personality.
What Mr. Trump may reveal, far more than the evils of patriarchy, much as they exist, or the self-entitlement of the rich and infamous, is the abject failure of American public education for the lower-middle, working, and impoverished classes—those most susceptible to Mr. Trump. Not only have they been the greatest victims of economic inequality and political powerlessness, they have been denied the opportunity to understand even the most basic principles of public policy and good government. For all practical purposes, they have been abandoned to remedy that deficit by unremitting exposure to the dominant right-wing radio and TV echo chamber and corporate America's mass-media advertising handmaiden.
John Dewey might well be rolling over and over and over in his grave, tortured by the thought that this country has forgotten the inextricable link between "fully formed public opinion" and civil society. Dewey knew that when we abandon public education that values and promotes citizenship over consumerism, we're bound to reap the whirlwind.
What Mr. Trump may reveal, far more than the evils of patriarchy, much as they exist, or the self-entitlement of the rich and infamous, is the abject failure of American public education for the lower-middle, working, and impoverished classes—those most susceptible to Mr. Trump. Not only have they been the greatest victims of economic inequality and political powerlessness, they have been denied the opportunity to understand even the most basic principles of public policy and good government. For all practical purposes, they have been abandoned to remedy that deficit by unremitting exposure to the dominant right-wing radio and TV echo chamber and corporate America's mass-media advertising handmaiden.
John Dewey might well be rolling over and over and over in his grave, tortured by the thought that this country has forgotten the inextricable link between "fully formed public opinion" and civil society. Dewey knew that when we abandon public education that values and promotes citizenship over consumerism, we're bound to reap the whirlwind.
5
IMPORTANT CORRECTION TO MY LETTER
add two words to this sentence or it will not make sentence
Women should be upset by this but it is a serious mistake to believe that most men or even many men speak to each other [LIKE THIS} when alone.
add two words to this sentence or it will not make sentence
Women should be upset by this but it is a serious mistake to believe that most men or even many men speak to each other [LIKE THIS} when alone.
Trump supporters…do they have Anosognosia? Trump is obviously mentally ill...obviously.
Anosognosia is the lack of awareness of the deficits, signs and symptoms of an illness. It is not merely a denial; it is an actual neurological deficit. Anosognosia is seen in those who have right brain hemisphere lesions due to stroke, dementia and traumatic brain injury. Some studies show that people with that have brain hemispheric asymmetry in the anteroinferior temporal lobe and this asymmetry correlates to a lack of illness awareness.
The important thing to remember is the anosognosia is neurological and beyond a patient’s control. Anosognosia is characterised by:
--A severe and persistent lack of insight
--The erroneous beliefs (such as “I am not sick”) are fixed and do not change even after the --person is confronted with overwhelming contrary evidence
--Illogical explanations and confabulations that attempt to explain away the evidence
The critical thing to stress is that you can’t talk someone out of a delusion. That’s the definition of delusion. It is a belief in the face of contrary evidence. And Anosognosia is a delusion.
Anosognosia is the lack of awareness of the deficits, signs and symptoms of an illness. It is not merely a denial; it is an actual neurological deficit. Anosognosia is seen in those who have right brain hemisphere lesions due to stroke, dementia and traumatic brain injury. Some studies show that people with that have brain hemispheric asymmetry in the anteroinferior temporal lobe and this asymmetry correlates to a lack of illness awareness.
The important thing to remember is the anosognosia is neurological and beyond a patient’s control. Anosognosia is characterised by:
--A severe and persistent lack of insight
--The erroneous beliefs (such as “I am not sick”) are fixed and do not change even after the --person is confronted with overwhelming contrary evidence
--Illogical explanations and confabulations that attempt to explain away the evidence
The critical thing to stress is that you can’t talk someone out of a delusion. That’s the definition of delusion. It is a belief in the face of contrary evidence. And Anosognosia is a delusion.
4
Don't you think Trump supporters have that
And yes Trump supporters probably think Clinton supporters are similarly affected...
And yes Trump supporters probably think Clinton supporters are similarly affected...
Also note that when Donald descends the steps inside the bus he knocks on the door.... expecting someone on the outside to open the door for him so he can exit-- he needs to be told to use the handle to open the door, for himself
3
With all of the avalanches of coverage of Trump's amoral and sleazy behavior across the board, the standard bearers on the Christian Right continue to support his candidacy. Franklin Graham made headlines yesterday when recommended that Christians vote for Trump in spite of admissions he gropes women! For what is he willing to sacrifice his Christian moral compass? Control of the Supreme Court vacancies. The reasoning is that this will affect our children and grandchildren for years to come.
I guess this is just a symptom of the fallout of gridlock between the the other two branches of government, that control of the Supreme Court is his highest priority. Perhaps it is the only reason left to vote against the other side. Perhaps he is like Trump in that he does not read newspaper coverage. He is willing to take a chance on an impulsive, uninformed, and amoral man who could start World War III in exchange for control of the court. Moreover, he is able to ignore the untold damage the conservative court did to us and our children in some of the bonehead decisions they made, such as Citizens United.
I guess this is just a symptom of the fallout of gridlock between the the other two branches of government, that control of the Supreme Court is his highest priority. Perhaps it is the only reason left to vote against the other side. Perhaps he is like Trump in that he does not read newspaper coverage. He is willing to take a chance on an impulsive, uninformed, and amoral man who could start World War III in exchange for control of the court. Moreover, he is able to ignore the untold damage the conservative court did to us and our children in some of the bonehead decisions they made, such as Citizens United.
(This view is shared by my male friends also). I am a 75 year old male and have been quite active in the world and have never in my life heard a man speak like this and anyone who did would be considered by other men to be pathetic or having a creepy need to impress parlayed with an abject failure to appreciate normal masculinity. Only toadies or people who lick what's up and kick what's down would participate in such conversations. Women should be upset by this but it is a serious mistake to believe that most men or even many men speak to each other when alone. Actually most men are rather modest in their day to day behavior and speech and probably find Trump's talk more offensive than women do.
5
Breaking News: Donald J. Trump, aka Der Strumpet, just walked out onto 5th Avenue, shot someone in the head dead -- himself as it turned out -- and as he himself previously predicted, the assembled crowd of supporters continued to shout, "USA! USA! USA!" and, "Lock Her Up! Lock Her Up! Lock Her Up!"
Spin Surrogates for the recently deceased Herr Strumpet continue to maintain that there is no one who will ever waver in continuing to support and cast their vote for their hero and saviour, Donald J. Strumpf . . .
Just goes to show that there is no underestimating the ??? of the American Public, or is that "overestimating," or are we all just terribly confused??? Help!
Spin Surrogates for the recently deceased Herr Strumpet continue to maintain that there is no one who will ever waver in continuing to support and cast their vote for their hero and saviour, Donald J. Strumpf . . .
Just goes to show that there is no underestimating the ??? of the American Public, or is that "overestimating," or are we all just terribly confused??? Help!
3
Trump is having his "Lonesome Rhodes" moment, where the crowds get to see him for who he is. And it isn't pretty.
3
I condemn Mr. Trump and Mr. Bush
However, the irony is this.
President Clinton was impeached by the House ( among other high crimes and misdemeanors) though not convicted by the Senate for lying about sex under oath that he had with an intern while he was married.
The Democrats were all supporting him then for making sex thing political.
Sure, the Republicans paid the price.
Here comes a 3 times married and a well know boorish man, Mr. Trump - merely talking about sex, and everyone is ready to throw him under the bus.
And like in the impeachment aftermath, the Republicans will now pay the price at the ballot the box.
Sooner this election is over, better it will be for us all to watch TV with our children, and read newspapers without getting embarrassed.
However, the irony is this.
President Clinton was impeached by the House ( among other high crimes and misdemeanors) though not convicted by the Senate for lying about sex under oath that he had with an intern while he was married.
The Democrats were all supporting him then for making sex thing political.
Sure, the Republicans paid the price.
Here comes a 3 times married and a well know boorish man, Mr. Trump - merely talking about sex, and everyone is ready to throw him under the bus.
And like in the impeachment aftermath, the Republicans will now pay the price at the ballot the box.
Sooner this election is over, better it will be for us all to watch TV with our children, and read newspapers without getting embarrassed.
That bus as a wrecking ball. So many metaphors, so little time.
The tape simply reiterates a similar conversation DT had years ago with his ghost writer, which the later reported this summer in an interview with the New Yorker. Trump is sleazy. But this redolent tape surfaced at the surgically right moment. Trump has lots of enemies. Couldn't have happened to a more deserving guy.
This election has been a gift for me. I now recognize far deeper and clearer the massive misogyny that is the American culture. In my own life I have endured it all, like so many women, but did achieve some success -- on my own, with my own talents and inventiveness. With this election I am now enjoying a resurgence of self-appreciation. Yes, it was tough aiming for success as a woman. I forgot how tough it was. And I'm still clueless about the advantages I could have had. I took myself semi-seriously, because half was all I could muster. I see that now. Half was heavy lifting, considering.
Young women, this election is for you. I hope the world opens up for you in ways I never dreamed.
The tape simply reiterates a similar conversation DT had years ago with his ghost writer, which the later reported this summer in an interview with the New Yorker. Trump is sleazy. But this redolent tape surfaced at the surgically right moment. Trump has lots of enemies. Couldn't have happened to a more deserving guy.
This election has been a gift for me. I now recognize far deeper and clearer the massive misogyny that is the American culture. In my own life I have endured it all, like so many women, but did achieve some success -- on my own, with my own talents and inventiveness. With this election I am now enjoying a resurgence of self-appreciation. Yes, it was tough aiming for success as a woman. I forgot how tough it was. And I'm still clueless about the advantages I could have had. I took myself semi-seriously, because half was all I could muster. I see that now. Half was heavy lifting, considering.
Young women, this election is for you. I hope the world opens up for you in ways I never dreamed.
4
So Trump had a conversation about sex. It is totally beyond me why any American would want Hillary Clinton as president. She's a criminal, and she's dangerous, and she's anti-American. She's married to an many times accused rapist and serial sexual abuser. She seems incapable of telling the truth. She can't speak unless she's reading from a script written by someone else. The only reason anyone ever heard of Hillary Clinton is because she was married to the president of the United States. She corrupts everyone and everything she comes in contact with. She's going to be just as useless as that Obama. Are American women really so superficial that they're willing to throw away their country just because the other candidate talked about sex?
I am so ready to put a fork in that overdone Old Boy's Club. May it die a lonely death, choked by its own cigar smoke and swollen whiskey-liver. All the times I have been rendered speechless and cowering by that devil, hamstrung by a woman's place as mute and pleasant. Working in hospitals under the burning gaze of omnipotent god-doctors. The surreptitious gropes in close quarters of operating rooms. The late night encounters in green emergency room hallways, dodging shadows. Awkward refusals, as the power leaks from me. So done. Age undoes the threat mercifully. But for the others, may the humiliation end.
Hospitals are certainly not the only places that contain Old Boys Clubs, but such was my experience many years ago. And so repelled am I when I realize that club still exists.
Hospitals are certainly not the only places that contain Old Boys Clubs, but such was my experience many years ago. And so repelled am I when I realize that club still exists.
6
Want to learn what someone really thinks and believes? Listen to them when they are drunk. In vino veritas.
I'm male. I've always detested the way that most straight, white men and boys talk about women, gays, and blacks behind their backs, when they think they can get away with it because they are with likeminded males.
We humans are normally such careful and cautious hypocrites. All these interviewed American men claiming that they don't talk like Trump about women behind their backs. Well, they would say that wouldn't they?
What American man with half a brain is going to admit publicly that he's a sleazy predator? I can just hear Ted Bundy and his ilk admitting to women before they attacked them that they were psychopathic sadists. Wake up folks! That's not how ruthless, cunning predators operate.
And all these women insisting that their husbands, brothers, fathers, sons, grandfathers etc would never talk like Trump did on the tape. Sorry, but all that proves, once again, is how little you really know about the men close to you.
I'm male. I've always detested the way that most straight, white men and boys talk about women, gays, and blacks behind their backs, when they think they can get away with it because they are with likeminded males.
We humans are normally such careful and cautious hypocrites. All these interviewed American men claiming that they don't talk like Trump about women behind their backs. Well, they would say that wouldn't they?
What American man with half a brain is going to admit publicly that he's a sleazy predator? I can just hear Ted Bundy and his ilk admitting to women before they attacked them that they were psychopathic sadists. Wake up folks! That's not how ruthless, cunning predators operate.
And all these women insisting that their husbands, brothers, fathers, sons, grandfathers etc would never talk like Trump did on the tape. Sorry, but all that proves, once again, is how little you really know about the men close to you.
I'm not sure I buy the part about Adrianne Zucker being powerless. It's true that she's not in on their schemes but she seems to hold her own, playing one off of the other so as not to get stuck with either. Mostly they are the masters of their own fantasies. It might fit this author's narrative to make this the perfect symbol of a male dominated society, but it undermines the strength of the argument when actual harm is done. I make no defense for what they say or the mindset behind it, but it's important to be clear when such behavior crosses the line to criminality.
I had this conversation with my spouse tonight,asking him if this locker room talk was still happening and how would he feel if the women he knew were sitting around talking about him and his friends like this. He said that everyone he knew had outgrown that a long time ago and he wouldn't like that at all. It still made me furious that they all used to do this to varying degrees in their younger days.
I have two thoughts on this.
1. It explains why Trump gets Putin and admires Putin. This sort of locker-room banter is even more publicly accepted, perhaps even encouraged, in Russia.
2. It's funny to watch the "leadership" of the Republican party scatter from this like roaches from the light. Funny, because it's not a surprise to hear this stuff from Trump, so it's pretty clear that they are not running from him because of the comments - they had to know he was like this already. No, what they are running from is the potential loss of confidence they will suffer among their women and other enlightened constituents if they support Trump after this.
Oh, and one more thing - really probably the most important thing. Trump's supporters will STILL put him into the Presidency if the Democrats don't actually come out and vote. I doubt the Russian hackers can get to enough voting machines to change the outcome if enough people actually vote for Hillary Clinton.
1. It explains why Trump gets Putin and admires Putin. This sort of locker-room banter is even more publicly accepted, perhaps even encouraged, in Russia.
2. It's funny to watch the "leadership" of the Republican party scatter from this like roaches from the light. Funny, because it's not a surprise to hear this stuff from Trump, so it's pretty clear that they are not running from him because of the comments - they had to know he was like this already. No, what they are running from is the potential loss of confidence they will suffer among their women and other enlightened constituents if they support Trump after this.
Oh, and one more thing - really probably the most important thing. Trump's supporters will STILL put him into the Presidency if the Democrats don't actually come out and vote. I doubt the Russian hackers can get to enough voting machines to change the outcome if enough people actually vote for Hillary Clinton.
1
They're doing to (and ultimately for) the Patriarchy what Lance Armstrong did for bicycle racing. After Armstrong's scandal and very public downfall, bicycle racing has gotten cleaner and the cheats have endeavored to burrow deeper. I am enjoying watching the first woman President of the United States, who has been vetted more than any other candidate in history, defeat the very worst of the Patriarchy. Do you realize that every child born within the Presidency of Barack Obama thinks an African American President is normal. Every child born in the next 4 to 8 years will think it's weird to have a white man as President. Pay attention y'all, this as significant historically as the disintegration of the royal houses of Europe, on the eve of World War I. It's something to behold.
3
Also known as a Bullying Circle. Complicit- Mr. Pence's rank ambition and cowardice in not forfeiting his position on principle is most telling of his leadership style and integrity as a person. As one reviewer remarked on Barbara Coloroso's book so relevant to today:
"Coloroso shows that co-option of the general population is required as well. A bully while being an instigator requires not only henchmen but a hierarchy of active and passive supporters. Additionally they require an active regime to demonizes the target thus loosing moral inhibitions to attack, dissuade witnesses from seeing or believing the obvious and discourage others from acting in their defense."
"Coloroso shows that co-option of the general population is required as well. A bully while being an instigator requires not only henchmen but a hierarchy of active and passive supporters. Additionally they require an active regime to demonizes the target thus loosing moral inhibitions to attack, dissuade witnesses from seeing or believing the obvious and discourage others from acting in their defense."
Maybe the issue would eventually die out on its own----because its a fake---but I really hope people will see what the right wing whining about "political correctness" really is. Its a cover and a diversion for boorishness and insensitivity and cruelty, and an attempt to turn boors and crass and cruel people into victims and martyrs. I would expect the founding father of this phony free speech argument, Dinesh D'Souza, to leap to Trump's defense and point to the bus tape incident as yet another example.
2
It can't come as a surprise to anyone that Trump says crass and lewd things, that he talks like a sailor, thinks of himself as a playboy. Anyone could've guessed that he's domineering and pushes himself on others, that he thinks he owns people, that he focuses on women's superficial characteristics, that he manipulates taxes to his advantage, or that he cheats people in business deals. It's not as if he hasn't been saying vulgar and offensive things all along. He's a former slum lord, a casino owner, beauty pageant owner, reality show host, and now a politician -- it's all there in his resume. I'd be surprised if he's not beholden to the mob, maybe the Russian mob.
4
The behavior by Trump and Bush is anything but normal. In my male life, I have on very rare occasion met men who were as crass as these two on that bus, but it is neither normal nor usual in the circles I traveled -- a Southwestern high school ... a Northeastern liberal arts college ... graduate school ... so many other social organizations; golf courses, tennis courts ... and yes, locker rooms. These places did not harbor gross men talking in such terms about women, and any man who did would have been met with disapproval. Men who talk like that have not matured beyond junior high, and the rest of us don't condone such behavior.
Women are our friends, our family, our coworkers, our daughters. Those of us who grew up watching our mothers and sisters struggle (and succeed!) in their jobs and lives - whether as teachers or executives, cleaners or doctors - we love them for it, and we want them to have an equal shake, just as we want for our fathers, brothers, and sons.
To all, and especially to women: please know that men stand with you. We are your friends, and the vast majority of us don't behave this way.
Women are our friends, our family, our coworkers, our daughters. Those of us who grew up watching our mothers and sisters struggle (and succeed!) in their jobs and lives - whether as teachers or executives, cleaners or doctors - we love them for it, and we want them to have an equal shake, just as we want for our fathers, brothers, and sons.
To all, and especially to women: please know that men stand with you. We are your friends, and the vast majority of us don't behave this way.
3
It's totally disgusting and very disturbing when we merely heard this kind of derogatory manners, let alone from someone who is holding a ticket and running for a president. Someone obviously who will be a chief of commander of the gigantic and powerful country. Undeniably, all of us had encountered Trump-like mentality on daily basis. I remember very clearly when people in looker rooms described not only women in general but in fact their wives in a very unrespectful way. I was totally stunned and puzzled. Women fought enough during decades to reach the unprecedented point and their contribution recently proved to be as much equally as men.Yet, we still maintaining a stupidity and men superiority in our societies; considerable percentage of people I could guarantee that they still demeaning women over and over and they still relentlessly grasping the notion that " women existed in the life to only infuse and entertain the sexual desirability of men", silly.
3
Like fearful rats abandoning a sinking ship, many of the more apprehensive GOP heavies have now started to desert the King of Lewd.
But note how many American Christian Evangelicals continue to embrace their latterday Messiah with all the religious fervour due to God's representative on Earth from the latter's blind and devoted acolytes.
Good girl HRC, the conscientious Methodist who regularly attends chapel is shunned by these pure and saintly Godly Folk. The smooth talking Mephistopheles, however, who has never asked God for forgiveness, never prays to God for guidance (because he has such a big brain) is embraced by them.
Matthew 7:15-20(KJV)
15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
But note how many American Christian Evangelicals continue to embrace their latterday Messiah with all the religious fervour due to God's representative on Earth from the latter's blind and devoted acolytes.
Good girl HRC, the conscientious Methodist who regularly attends chapel is shunned by these pure and saintly Godly Folk. The smooth talking Mephistopheles, however, who has never asked God for forgiveness, never prays to God for guidance (because he has such a big brain) is embraced by them.
Matthew 7:15-20(KJV)
15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
And in the cruelest of ironies, the only viable alternative in this debacle of a choice is married to the previous throne sitter. Just as nauseating as Trump's gutter spew is her under-the-carpet-sweeping diminishment of Bubba's actions for her own political gain.
7
So Hilary Clinton is just as responsible for her husband's lewd behavior as Donald Trump is for his own behavior? Right -- spoken like a . . . man (and a right-wing Republican one at that).
3
B-Man: Bill Clinton is considered by most historians to have been a very successful President, regardless of your opinion. Hillary Clinton, former First Lady, Senator and Secty. of State is more than qualified to be President, and polls show her way ahead of Trump. She will follow a very good President, and continue his policies. Trump will go home and face the lawsuits now pending against Trump U, and himself due to unpaid contractors who worked on Trump Tower. There is nothing to compare Trump, a crook and a grifter, with the Clintons. There is no irony here. I lived on the East Coast for 22 years, and visited one of our two branches in PA. You might want to direct your attention a bit closer to home; PA has a few problems of its own.
1
I disagree with the assumption that Donald Trump and the 'Old Boys Club' is something most women rarely get a glimpse of, simply because they've been subjected to it in one form or another, for so long.
The fact the the mainstream media is finally waking up to the truth about the person that they, along with the Republican Party has endorsed, is the only thing that's new here.
The fact the the mainstream media is finally waking up to the truth about the person that they, along with the Republican Party has endorsed, is the only thing that's new here.
25
Best piece yet on the subject matter. Congratulations.
22
I wonder if Trump's "white male" support is as deep as pollsters imply. Are they counting white, college-educated males who always vote but never answer cell phone calls from unknown callers?
Come on guys! Let's send Trump to the dumpster of history.
Come on guys! Let's send Trump to the dumpster of history.
26
In reply to Melvyn Magree in Duluth MN.
We're right with you, Melvyn! We're gonna do it!
We're right with you, Melvyn! We're gonna do it!
1
Thanks for reminding us of Freud's famous paradigm of the "dirty joke," in which 2 parties (here Trump and Bush) are "in" on the joke while the 3rd, (in this instance Arianne Zucker) is the naive object. While the old boys' entitlement is infuriating and infinitely despicable, the woman's uninformed complicity is immeasurably sad.
9
Thank you for taking the time to unpack some of the other awful moments in this suitcase packed with appalling behavior between co-conspirators who find that the only thing better than preying on unsuspecting women is bragging about it later. Trump has a sordid history of openly celebrating his contempt for women--presented under the guise of his love of sex, as his many loathsome comments during juvenile, misogynistic exchanges with Howard Stern reveal. Ivanka Trump said her father is not a groper, but he says otherwise. The evidence is piling up in the form of his own smarmy, self congratulatory declarations about his serial abuse of women who, like Bill Cosby's victims, no doubt thought they might be meeting someone who could help them, but were in actuality entering an encounter with an experienced and cynical predator.
12
"His thinking is ingenious in how hard it works to justify itself, how it flatters Trump: Take first, then claim they let you; explain it all with an inflated notion of your desirability and celebrity. Hovering underneath all that supposed desire is contempt: These women are so stupid, they’ll let me do anything. "
If you substitute "women" with "voters," it still works.
Remember "how dumb are the people of Iowa?" "I love the poorly educated"? Seems so long ago.
It occurs to me that this mindset is exactly how Trump thinks of voters, and how he has been planning to take the presidency. The public is so starry-eyed and stupid they will just let him do what he wants. He is entitled to it. And he has come dangerously close to achieving the biggest conquest of all.
Going to need a lot of Tic Tacs for this one.
If you substitute "women" with "voters," it still works.
Remember "how dumb are the people of Iowa?" "I love the poorly educated"? Seems so long ago.
It occurs to me that this mindset is exactly how Trump thinks of voters, and how he has been planning to take the presidency. The public is so starry-eyed and stupid they will just let him do what he wants. He is entitled to it. And he has come dangerously close to achieving the biggest conquest of all.
Going to need a lot of Tic Tacs for this one.
30
As I read, the number of Republican supporters that are bailing off of the Trump not-so-luxury cruise liner, like so many rats off of the Titanic, is amazing. Headlines reading that they have all reached their breaking point (except for people like Paul Ryan). The breaking point that they describe isn't some moral or ethical pressure that they can no longer support or withstand, it is a political pressure that they can no longer bare the weight of. The answer to this can be found in the very definition of politics: the activities associated with the governance of a country or other area, especially the debate or conflict among individuals or parties having or hoping to achieve power. As you read, you can hear the "hoping to achieve power" ring a bit louder than the rest of the definition. This crescendo of Trump's previously well-known abuse of women has become the political iceberg to the Republican Party's Titanic. Trump has steered the Republican party right into the largest iceberg imaginable and the wealthy are all tearing at each other to get onto whatever life boat they can find. Like the wealthy of the Titanic, the steerage, the poor, will be last allowed on deck and will only find that the wealthy have left the ship to go down by the head in short notice.
21
As you stated so eloquently, this video, watched over and over again, is so different from the others. Trump enlists Billy in the Playboy club on the bus, knowing that Billy knows the rules, while reminding Billy of his power (stardom), as the slurs continue. It's quite sadistic, and Billy was played too. Career over for Billy. Career not over for Trump. Republicans, behind closed doors, have enacted barbaric laws over women's reproductive rights for decades. Breasts, a uterus, and wombs do not belong to women, but to them. Trump and Billy just said so, with their darkest behavior on display for the entire world. How does this feel now, boys?
37
It's high time to start replacing "the old boy's club" with "the new girls' network".
10
We've all heard men say these things, many of them in positions of trust and power. The electronic age is the great equalizer-- it creates unprecedented accountability and gives a voice to those of us who previously were unheard. This article hits the nail on the head, this expose' of the old boys' club will be its downfall, for electronic recordings and social media now make it possible for the rest of the public to see and hear what happens, and to judge it.
5
I'm glad Republicans are falling away from Trump...but then again...how sincere are they?
They didn't distance themselves when Trump branded Mexicans rapists...or when he advocated violence at his rallies...when he had persons of color removed from his rallies...when he claimed Obama wasn't American...when he claimed Obama created ISIS...when he gently invited Russia to hack into American cyber systems...when he suggested that 2nd amendment folks might know what to do to right a wrong...or when he accepted the endorsements of the KKK and white nationalist/supremacist groups.
But these GOP folks have mothers, daughters, wives, and/or mistresses...so it hits home, fast...and besides, who's going to talk to them at home, if they don't come out against Trump's lewd, misogynistic talk?
Why wasn't everything else about Donald Trump that is so deplorable (yes, it's the right word) enough to get them to act before now?...and how much can anyone trust their words now, when it may well be that they are only distancing themselves because it has finally become too costly politically to continue their soul-selling association with him?
They've quietly acquiesced to Trump's every whim...and that's worth remembering...all the while knowing exactly who he is.
They didn't distance themselves when Trump branded Mexicans rapists...or when he advocated violence at his rallies...when he had persons of color removed from his rallies...when he claimed Obama wasn't American...when he claimed Obama created ISIS...when he gently invited Russia to hack into American cyber systems...when he suggested that 2nd amendment folks might know what to do to right a wrong...or when he accepted the endorsements of the KKK and white nationalist/supremacist groups.
But these GOP folks have mothers, daughters, wives, and/or mistresses...so it hits home, fast...and besides, who's going to talk to them at home, if they don't come out against Trump's lewd, misogynistic talk?
Why wasn't everything else about Donald Trump that is so deplorable (yes, it's the right word) enough to get them to act before now?...and how much can anyone trust their words now, when it may well be that they are only distancing themselves because it has finally become too costly politically to continue their soul-selling association with him?
They've quietly acquiesced to Trump's every whim...and that's worth remembering...all the while knowing exactly who he is.
12
This kind of behavior will never disappear. Fortunately most men find the behavior as disgusting as any woman might find it.
4
Trumps' supporters are delusional, especially the surrogates who state that the video that The Washington Post sourced is not particularly relevant given that it's 11 years old. This is nonsense. I'm confident that his last misogynistic and vile comments were made 11 minutes ago. The Apprentice tapes proving that he is a serial violator of women should be subpoenaed.
His apology last night was not heartfelt-- it was perfunctory. He didn't even have the good sense to apologize to his wife, Melania, who was pregnant with his fifth child when he acted like such a sophomoric fool. With all of his numerous flaws and serious legal troubles including law suits alleging fraud (e.g., Trump University) and rape (e.g., of a 13 year-old girl where there will be a hearing in December), how can he serve?
His apology last night was not heartfelt-- it was perfunctory. He didn't even have the good sense to apologize to his wife, Melania, who was pregnant with his fifth child when he acted like such a sophomoric fool. With all of his numerous flaws and serious legal troubles including law suits alleging fraud (e.g., Trump University) and rape (e.g., of a 13 year-old girl where there will be a hearing in December), how can he serve?
12
we rarely see? are you serious? this is something you men rarely see. us women, we experience it far too often.
21
Amen! Varying degrees of this backroom, locker room--whatever you want to call it--predatory sexual banter against women has been occurring forever. It is more subtle now, or covert, but exists pervasively.
Mr. Trump continually avoids taking responsibility for his actions because he LITERALLY doesn't think he did anything wrong. He got caught and now he's trying to save his candidacy. He keeps bringing up Bill Clinton and his indiscretions, but Bill Clinton ran for president over 25 yrs ago, and I truly believe he actually wouldn't be elected now. Why? Because the Democratic Party has its modern sex scandal leader and his name's Anthony Weiner... and he's no longer a politician. Bill Clinton benefited by the time he was elected and it AIN'T 1992 or 1970 or 1950, Mr. Trump. It's time for this disgusting sexism to go the way of time... to be left in the PAST.
13
While I share others outrage, I am not shocked that Trump continues to garner support, his entire campaign has been about going back in time, when White men did and said as they pleased. The average Joe, who cannot recognize, nor condone the great humanitarian progress this nation has made wants desperately to emulate the actions/lifestyle of Bush and Trump. It is sad that the powerless would want emulate these two losers, but on some level it is understandable; envy is such a cruel emotional state.
11
A blogger after the Stanford rape fiasco wrote: "As long as boys will be boys, girls will be garbage." Anyone who acts like this in private is not acceptable for public leadership. No excuses.
25
It must be deeply, seriously considered how wrong the simple characterization of DT.'s remarks as "lewd" truly is. The remarks are explicitly about sexual predation, and are not simply sexual in nature. There is nothing wrong with healthy, consensual adult sexual enjoyment. What is disgusting here is the overt sense of entitlement and coerced compliance through power imbalance. The remarks are the essence of rape culture, and have to do with toxic masculine power, bullying, and sadism, not sexuality.
32
Gee, Melania is standing by her man. Wonder if Conservative do gooders will have nasty comments for Melania like they have had for Hillary when she stood by her man? Hopefully, the "informed" electorate out there will pay attention to down vote ballots. Remember, it took this for some Republicans to finally denounce Trump and only because they are worried about their own re-election.
7
A president's role is not to simply avoid saying derogatory things about women. A president's role is to protect and advocate for women's rights. Trump cannot take women's rights to heart.
6
It's been revealed that the woman Trump was making his lewd comments about was Nancy O'Dell, who would have been Bush's television co-host at the time. Notice that he doesn't attempt to stop Trump from talking about his co-worker this way. She reportedly left Access Hollywood because Bush was difficult to work with and management didn't address her complaints about him- so she left even though she was the more senior host, and clearly the more mature and professional of the two. I wish I could say that this is surprising, but as a working woman in my 30s it does not surprise me at all.
14
The Republican nominee for president has demonstrated himself to be a bigot, a racist, a liar, a xenophobe, a tax cheat, a vulgarian and sexist during the campaign but only when he is vulgar when talking about a white woman does the Republican establishment take a stand? The Republican party has clearly revealed the priorities that matter for them and in my view their complete lack of any moral principles.
8
While I certainly agree that this is one more example of Trump's disturbing personality and a strong reminder why no one must vote for him I'm also baffled that it is THIS particular incident that might eventually (hopefully) seal his fate. What about Trump's call to build a wall to fence off Mexicans, his insulting remarks about Mexican immigrants, about Muslims, about a black judge, about Fiorina's face, about calling Elizabeth Warren "Pocahontas" which is not only insulting to Warren but to all Native Americans, his deeply insulting and totally twisted view of African American's current social and economic state, his encouragement to use violence at his rallies, his threat to curb free prees and on and on it goes. So apparently it seems ok to use racists slurs, to insult Mexicans, Muslims and African Americans, or at least it was not reason enough for the GOP to really act and speak out against Trump but this stupid sextalk-thing is finally forcing them to distance themselves from him and to call for his resignation? This in itself says a lot about the current state of this country and this to me is the really disturbing thing.
11
i don't know if i can express the relief and gratitude i feel to see this piece in print so perfectly pinpointing the ridiculousness of Trump, Ailes, and what those of us who aren't white and male are STILL having to tolerate. Does anyone want to use the word "entitlement?" The exposure, as painful as it has been, of so many healthy, "isms" in our country, answers prayers for the explication, diagnosis, and treatment. i was around in the sixties and seventies. it's time to push out. whether or not a single Republican really gets it or not-McCains, Ayottes, Rices, Pences included.
7
The Old Boys are the goats in this GOP goat rodeo. They depended totally on bringing together diverse internal party factions. In order to win the GOP, must rely upon and tolerate voters who are racist and sexist. If you are a Democrat, you have to put up with the racist GOP gerrymandering and suppressing votes. All women put up with the sexist GOP pushing the arrogant controlling protectionism of "religious" elected Republicans now claiming that they have children and they are "Christians" so they will not tolerate Trump. Mitt Romney actually used the phrase "our" women today. The media are praising the so called virtues of honking pious sexist GOP officials running away from Trump. They are only running away because the Trump tape exposed them as hypocrites. It is rope-a-goat day in the GOP and Jason Chaffetz, Mike Pence, and their sexist controlling ilk are among the goats.
7
This type of talk is surprisingly common when women are not around and it's a reason certain men at the top don't want to include women in their inner circle. Sometimes those women at the top match the talk with their own crassness or look the other way, which is what happened apparently at Fox. It does seem to be old school and hopefully on its way out. The more women in business, the less likely it will occur,
5
And now we're going to let Bill Clinton back in the White House to do his philandering?
3
Maybe there's a silver lining here by shining a bright light on this horrific behavior and so help advance a new model of boys' "locker room banter" which respects women and girls? "Did you see that amazing goal SHE scored?...can you believe how strong SHE is?...what an incredible breakaway SHE made!...SHE is such an awesome handler and cutter, too [ultimate frisbee]."
4
I've been in lots of locker rooms. I resent trump's implication that this is normal guy talk about women. Not in my locker room. Some of us old boys love women enough to
respect them. And after this, how could the Times run another article saying Trump needs
a win in the next debate? Isn't the real news that perhaps this will finally finish
this nightmare candidacy? What could a "win" actually look like? And who cares?
respect them. And after this, how could the Times run another article saying Trump needs
a win in the next debate? Isn't the real news that perhaps this will finally finish
this nightmare candidacy? What could a "win" actually look like? And who cares?
7
King of the old Boys club? Then Hillary will be its Queen. Her little club is on Wall Street and in the corporate suites where she delivers her reassuring speeches to the 1%. What is truly amazing is not the promises she made or her hypocrisy and duplicity with the voters but that she had everything reduced to writing and then had a staffer highlight and outline the main points of what she said. Is she stupid or what?
2
Trump is a violent bully and there are not sufficient protections built into our political system to stop a demagogue who does not respect or understand the rule of law. Paul Ryan's comment in attempting to distance himself from Trump, that women are to be "championed" and "revered," is not the same, certainly, but disturbing in the way that Bill O'Reilly's comment about slaves who built the White House were at least housed and fed reveals genuine lack of comprehension. Stop talking. Listen to those who are offended. Intent is not controlling.
8
Beautifully written. Thank you.
3
Truth be told the media failed us miserably. This audio tape of trump's could have been unearthed a whole year ago. Instead the media allowed us be dragged through this messy situation. Terrible media we have lost all respect. We have to look for alternate sources Of reliable information.
4
You miss the point. It was the Dems' secret weapon which was held back for safekeeping until it was needed most. It is the perfect distraction from the Wiki-Leaks dump of documents which prove how hollow a One-Percenter Hillary is. In her private little meeting with her elitist pals on Wall Street, she empathizes with them and reassuringly tells them what she won't dare to say publicly. In her hypocrisy and her disdain for the people she is more disgusting than Trump could ever be.
Is it not strange that it was not released? It involved 2 huge money guys, a Bush and Trump.
Trump's a pig, certainly. And you didn't need this tape to know that from the start. Not defending him, but the NYT, unintentionally, reveals him in its observation that once he actually MET the TV star he was polite and mild. That's the point: he is merely a big talker ( as many men are when it comes to sexual things) and it doesn't mean - and actually suggests he won't- actually follow up on the vulgar things he says. Yes, it's disgusting, but ITS ONLY TALK. This is one thing that folks these days don't seem to fully grasp.
2
@Peter N: It's not just talk. They both insisted on physically touching her, even though she was clearly uncomfortable. The touching is all about the act of possession. It's not just talk.
1
I'm watching television now where Trump supporters are cheering him on. I get that these cheering men are titilated by the possibility of being a predator like Trump. What I don't get is the mindset of the women who continue to support him. It's breathtaking to watch these self hating woman support a man who clearly has no respect for them or their gender. What are they teaching their children?
7
This insightful piece captures just what was all wrong with the boys on the bus. Because they were anything but boys. They were predators.
6
His followers are rallying outside of T Tower now and he is preening around with fist held high like a winning prize fighter.
6
In reply to Kathyinct in Fairfield County CT.
Yay! Go Trump!
Yay! Go Trump!
This does not surprise me. Rather, it confirms everything about Trump. Remember when he said that if a woman experienced sexual harassment at work she should find another career? But his followers probably love it. The independent women he needs to win, not so much. I hope Hillary wins in a landslide.
4
Wonderfully written. Dare to dream that it's the wrecking ball!
3
To me, the reference to the woman as "it" is perhaps the most disturbing thing about the video.
2
"Women rarely see" this world? You must be kidding. I see this everyday. I have lived and breathed it in its every form. No one has been kidding me. Who is shocked? The older I get the angrier I get on this front, yet I remain (foolhardy?) determined to stamp this out.
9
Advice for Trump and the GOP:
"Do NOT go gently into that good night!"
Fight it boys! Fight it! Get up! Get up! Get your butts out there! Fight! Fight! Fight!
You don't need McCain!
You don't need Ryan!
You don't need Turtle Man!
Roosevelt, Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson, Bush 1 were dalliancers and womanizers!
"Do NOT go gently into that good night!"
Fight it boys! Fight it! Get up! Get up! Get your butts out there! Fight! Fight! Fight!
You don't need McCain!
You don't need Ryan!
You don't need Turtle Man!
Roosevelt, Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson, Bush 1 were dalliancers and womanizers!
1
This shouldn't be a surprise to anyone. This all goes along with racism, xenophobia, etc. And to support Trump is to support those attitudes. It's sad and disappointing yet not entirely surprising that he has as much support as he does. Because as the news reports remind us every day, white male privilege is alive and well in America. This is not news to women or anyone of color or with an accent in this country who deal with this nonsense on a daily basis.
5
Thank you for summing this up so well. I grew up and often worked around men like this in the late 20th century. I am hoping they are all a dying breed- remnants of a century now passed; dead as Trump's idiotic campaign.
5
I think that it's highly ironic (indeed, suspect) that a member of the Bush family be involved in the matter of this tape and its aftermath. In particular, since it would trumpet the downfall of Donald Trump, maybe Jeb Bush isn't such a lightweight after all.
1
My reaction was exactly yours -- the creepiest moment was seeing that encounter as he stepped off his bus. Like the Wizard of Oz, the curtain was gone - any thinking person would realize he plays his adoring crowds, the way he imagines himself playing women for he has no respect at all. My brief laughter at his remark about Gerald Ford stumbling (no stumble like yours, Mr. Trump!) turned into horror at just the "ickiness" of that encounter. I practically had to look away when he bent to kiss the actress. Trump has done us a service (unwittingly of course). Like the Obama presidency itself, it has forced us all to look straight at the deep rooted sexism and racism that still pervades our society. If, indeed, the GOP is now unravelling in the collective suicide that their entire primary campaign and nomination process heralded, it may confirm that the sheer awfulness and ugliness of Trump's candidacy, and, yes, of many of his "deplorable" supporters with their outrageous tweets, vile slanders, and chest-beating, is not a sign of strength, but of desperate and pathetic weakness. When Trump is a nasty memory and his most hardcore supporters are humbled (whether they recognize it or not) maybe we can deal seriously with these issues and the social and economic tensions that inflame them.
36
"The actress" has a name.
Brava, Susan Dominus.
"Bush, acting as a two-bit pimp ...... "; a grown man of 44, who calls himself Billy ?
Both Trump & this particular Bush may be "wannabe" members of the "Old Boy's Club" but I don't think the old boy's club would have them.
I'd apply the word "parvenu" to both of them.
"Bush, acting as a two-bit pimp ...... "; a grown man of 44, who calls himself Billy ?
Both Trump & this particular Bush may be "wannabe" members of the "Old Boy's Club" but I don't think the old boy's club would have them.
I'd apply the word "parvenu" to both of them.
2
Ir is bad taste to tape private conversations. Not only men, even women indulge in words, usages and ideas of bad taste when speaking in private. As to the quality of the conversation seen as that of Trump's, it is just the content that is generally seen in low-quality nations and populations.
These things have spread to quality English nations. The cure is to restrict the entry of low-quality populations into English nations.
These things have spread to quality English nations. The cure is to restrict the entry of low-quality populations into English nations.
1
1. The USA is not an English nation, it is in the Americas and has been independent of England for about 240 years.
2. These low quality populations are not new immigrants - they are cultivated low intelligence/low education voters who are white Americans.
2. These low quality populations are not new immigrants - they are cultivated low intelligence/low education voters who are white Americans.
I guess I'm confused by the Republican Party's collective reaction to this recent episode. Trump is the epitome of not being "politically correct" and his comments are part and parcel of that meme. According to Republicans, political correctness is the only true problem in this country and it's killing the real American psyche. So, someone plase explain how these latest comments are disturbing to the Right/conservative/republican brain and the prior utterances are/were not.
4
If Trump believes that despite this current tape- with surely others to follow- he will still be a viable candidate, then he is banking on the triumph of hope over experience.
3
To all those who seem so OUTRAGED and SHOCKED by this newly surfaced audio clip of DT from 2005, what kind of a fairytale, make-believe, Pollyanna world do you live in anyway?
What's really sick & outrageous is the gross hypocrisy and total absence of moral & intellectual honesty in our "holier than thou" political finger pointing!
Take a good, hard look in the mirror and you'll see what I mean. BUBBA is not on the ballot this time around (no, he just wants to re-enter the White House as our nation's "FIRST GENT"). But if I remember correctly he literally DEFILED the office of POTUS...served for two terms...and was IMPEACHED for lying under oath...while Hillary shamelessly defended him all the way as she ruthlessly denigrated those women who he brazenly victimized ("I did it because I could", referring to his White House intern, Monica Lewinski).
Again, look in the mirror before pointing a "holier than thou" accusatory finger. Sad...very sad, indeed!
What's really sick & outrageous is the gross hypocrisy and total absence of moral & intellectual honesty in our "holier than thou" political finger pointing!
Take a good, hard look in the mirror and you'll see what I mean. BUBBA is not on the ballot this time around (no, he just wants to re-enter the White House as our nation's "FIRST GENT"). But if I remember correctly he literally DEFILED the office of POTUS...served for two terms...and was IMPEACHED for lying under oath...while Hillary shamelessly defended him all the way as she ruthlessly denigrated those women who he brazenly victimized ("I did it because I could", referring to his White House intern, Monica Lewinski).
Again, look in the mirror before pointing a "holier than thou" accusatory finger. Sad...very sad, indeed!
2
I'm not sure why this is worse than some of Trump's previous remarks- like how he would date his daughter. Ugh.
What is amazing is the media pile on.
Could it have anything to do with the contemporaneous Wikileaks release of Clinton's speech excerpts quoting her admitting that she says one thing publicly and another privately? That she was willing to cut social security? That she thought the banks shouldn't be blamed for the economic collapse?
There WAS an article on Clinton's speeches on the electronic front page for an hour or two, quickly replaced by 5 or 6 stories on Trump.
Is it really news when Trump said something entirely within the range of his normal speaking and not unusual in the least? Not really, but it was a useful distraction.
Sad.
What is amazing is the media pile on.
Could it have anything to do with the contemporaneous Wikileaks release of Clinton's speech excerpts quoting her admitting that she says one thing publicly and another privately? That she was willing to cut social security? That she thought the banks shouldn't be blamed for the economic collapse?
There WAS an article on Clinton's speeches on the electronic front page for an hour or two, quickly replaced by 5 or 6 stories on Trump.
Is it really news when Trump said something entirely within the range of his normal speaking and not unusual in the least? Not really, but it was a useful distraction.
Sad.
There is something in Trump's words that, however disturbing, is nevertheless true: Women do indeed throw themselves at money, celebrity, and power. And when women behave like this, they are behaving like prostitutes, trading sex for the resources they believe the man can provide. When women act like prostitutes, why should they be surprised when they are treated as such?
2
Band wagon riders, do not confuse GOP and its history of fighting for women's rights and ts grand achievement of passing the 19th amendment despite veracious opposition to it by Democratic party with a crazy Trojan horse Trump (or rather trained pony) on a leash ending in NY
http://bit.do/ignorantsrealitycheck
http://bit.do/ignorantsrealitycheck
@Despeville: The Republican party has been a ridiculously regressive party throughout my lifetime and I'm closer to sixty than fifty. Tooth and nail they fought and continue to fight against civil rights, women's rights, environmental protection, and universal health care. They want to dismantle our public education system, refuse to fund public works projects, resist all attempts to raise taxes on wealth, and punish women and physicians for abortion. They were instrumental in defeating the ERA and have a wing that promotes theocracy.
Whatever progressive accomplishments they've achieved, they were all done nearly a century or more ago. Everyone who was a member of that version of the Republican party is dead. That version of the party ceased to exist when Herbert Hoover (the businessman whose leadership brought us the greatest economic depression this country to date) was elected.
Whatever progressive accomplishments they've achieved, they were all done nearly a century or more ago. Everyone who was a member of that version of the Republican party is dead. That version of the party ceased to exist when Herbert Hoover (the businessman whose leadership brought us the greatest economic depression this country to date) was elected.
The sad thing is that what Trump and the boys were saying is not shocking. I'm sure there are lots of women who, like me, are very familiar with this kind of conversation. In fact, it sounds pretty typical if you're over a certain age.
I guess I'm glad that some men are now acting horrified at such comments. But there are plenty of Trump lovers and plenty of others who don't know what all the uproar is about. And they know that once the guy "scores" and she gets pregnant, she better not dare have an abortion. She has to pay for her sins while the guy isn't even expected to be around to care for the child and mother. We still have a long way to go.
I guess I'm glad that some men are now acting horrified at such comments. But there are plenty of Trump lovers and plenty of others who don't know what all the uproar is about. And they know that once the guy "scores" and she gets pregnant, she better not dare have an abortion. She has to pay for her sins while the guy isn't even expected to be around to care for the child and mother. We still have a long way to go.
10
In reply to Rebecca in the US.
It is indeed sad, so very sad.
It is indeed sad, so very sad.
Doesn't NBC have a lot at risk here?
Access Hollywood is theirs. It's pretty raunchy. The Apprentice and Celebrity Apprentice belong to the network as well. Even before the release of the now infamous tape, we've been reading and hearing how sexually charged the production of those shows has been. Now the young Bush had a marquee job with NBC.
This network has much to answer for I think. It cannot say it did not know about the culture it incubated.
The audience probably wants a clean slate. The old boys club needs to be swept aside.
Access Hollywood is theirs. It's pretty raunchy. The Apprentice and Celebrity Apprentice belong to the network as well. Even before the release of the now infamous tape, we've been reading and hearing how sexually charged the production of those shows has been. Now the young Bush had a marquee job with NBC.
This network has much to answer for I think. It cannot say it did not know about the culture it incubated.
The audience probably wants a clean slate. The old boys club needs to be swept aside.
10
In reply to ChrisC in NY.
You are so right. We need to boycott NBC.
You are so right. We need to boycott NBC.
Tell that to Comcast, who own the NBS good ol boys.
It's not just what he said but what he did, and the minimization and deflection of it that defines rape culture.
34
I agree, completely.
And let's also take note of the flip side of what Trump did, in Ryan's assertion that women should be "revered" - yet another signal that the clueless GOP just doesn't get it. Putting women on a pedestal is yet another form of objectification that feeds rape culture.
Women - who make up 53% of the electorate, need to vote their interests this fall.
And let's also take note of the flip side of what Trump did, in Ryan's assertion that women should be "revered" - yet another signal that the clueless GOP just doesn't get it. Putting women on a pedestal is yet another form of objectification that feeds rape culture.
Women - who make up 53% of the electorate, need to vote their interests this fall.
Very well written and explains the sexual-political dynamics at play. Most of us played the game called "IT" as children. No woman would want to play this version.
1
Poor Billy. It takes real work to be the black sheep of a family that includes George W.
7
For women, we've all witnessed the "off the bus" moments where more than one man (because solo they don't engage in this behavior) have some inside joke- wink, wink - leaving clues and little bits of the joke with a too close hug, a kiss on the cheek or on the lips, some remark about how we look, a patriarchal pat on the lower back or worse that they think they're entitled to. You boys think we don't know what you're doing but we do. And we don't think it's funny. And we vote.
44
i was wondering why the word enough it's hard to hold so strong until I noticed at the end it was written by a woman. and I don't condone anything that was said! just drawing attention to the strength of the author's wording. i have a daughter.
Great article! I differ on one point - many people (both women and men) know the conversations that go on behind closed doors because women have not been spared the unwanted comments and harassment resulting from privileged behavior. The difference here is that the conversation was publicly visible and exposed, providing an opportunity for people to stand and speak up against all forms of abuse. Trump continues to make it very clear to us, who he really is.
1
I found this tape terrifying. I was 15 years old in 1969 when I first heard the words, "A woman can be anything she wants to be". Thank you, leaders of the feminist movement. I went on job interviews at the age of 16 and 17 to work as a receptionist, and was instead solicited to be a prostitute. I finally worked my way into a mans world job in business, and suffered repeated sexual harassment (being physically grabbed by my manager, and told I would never be promoted unless I had sex with him). Finally, I reported this man to Human Resources and fortunately I prevailed and after several months got the promotion into management I had worked so long and hard for. Unlike the women at Fox News, I had no lawyer and never could have paid the money required to retain one.
When I heard and watched this tape, what I heard and watched clearly was predatory. Did anyone notice Trumps change of tone of voice when he greeted this young woman? And Bush, shame on you, all of your physical and verbal maneuvering implying oh, let's see, a threesome? You were a pimp in this. As you go off plan and leave this woman alone with the clearly excited Trump. It looked like you were so obvious Mr. Bush, even Trump got a bit nervous as be blabbed, "Melania said I could do this". I'll bet Melania never had a clue what really went on.
Disgusting and frightening to any woman who knows that this stuff still goes on.
When I heard and watched this tape, what I heard and watched clearly was predatory. Did anyone notice Trumps change of tone of voice when he greeted this young woman? And Bush, shame on you, all of your physical and verbal maneuvering implying oh, let's see, a threesome? You were a pimp in this. As you go off plan and leave this woman alone with the clearly excited Trump. It looked like you were so obvious Mr. Bush, even Trump got a bit nervous as be blabbed, "Melania said I could do this". I'll bet Melania never had a clue what really went on.
Disgusting and frightening to any woman who knows that this stuff still goes on.
4
"IT. Not she. IT!"
I don't even refer to my Dog as IT!
Do you?
I don't even refer to my Dog as IT!
Do you?
1
The most pathetic thing about this guy and the guys who are like him and the guys who love him is that it really isn't even about attraction/arousal for women. All this posturing and bragging and braying is for each other. He/they may as well be saying to each other, 'Can you believe how straight I am? Or, 'Bro, don't you find me so sexy when I'm degrading woman?' They hate gays, of course, too. Probably more than woman. But they are definitely practicing a kind of heater homoerotic dance for each. This model male needs to be discontinued. Permanently.
1
So Candidate Trump talks like a dirty old man, while Candidate Hillary is married to one. What's a classy voter to do?
Personally I would rather be gawked at by a dirty old man in a van than sexually victimized by a dirty old man in an Oval Office. But clearly neither is appealing -- just like our two options for President.
Personally I would rather be gawked at by a dirty old man in a van than sexually victimized by a dirty old man in an Oval Office. But clearly neither is appealing -- just like our two options for President.
1
You can not be serious. Shock that men have conversations about having sex with a woman and then encounter the woman who never realized the conversation happened. This probably occurred multi million times in the world just today. Most heterosexual men have had conversations similiar to this including champions of the left who are feigning shock and outrage.
1
Except Trump specifically bragged that he could sexually assault women with unwanted groping simply because of his fame.
A far cry from simple lewd talk.
A far cry from simple lewd talk.
I am beyond disturbed by this video. Like many women, I knew what Donald was about before he became the GOP nominee. The man is creepy and his human stain will besmirch his supporters especially GOP leadership who disdain his words, but the support the man. As for the evangelicals: What is wrong with you people?
2
Not only is Trump a loser, so is Billy Bush, and so is any Republican, who after this still supports Trump.
There was already plenty of public disclosure by Trump himself that has been disqualifying. This is simply icing on the rotten cake.
Hopefully, the geniuses who run the Republican Party will learn a lesson after the upcoming disaster that will befall them on November 8th. Based on their "morals and family values" displayed to date, they all deserve a long time out. Like maybe 40 years in the wilderness. I hope the millennial spirit are paying attention. Elections are not about YOU. They are about choosing worthy leaders, not misogynists, bigots and xenophobes.
Remember to vote on November 8, 2016.
I will be voting a straight Democratic ticket, top to bottom.
There was already plenty of public disclosure by Trump himself that has been disqualifying. This is simply icing on the rotten cake.
Hopefully, the geniuses who run the Republican Party will learn a lesson after the upcoming disaster that will befall them on November 8th. Based on their "morals and family values" displayed to date, they all deserve a long time out. Like maybe 40 years in the wilderness. I hope the millennial spirit are paying attention. Elections are not about YOU. They are about choosing worthy leaders, not misogynists, bigots and xenophobes.
Remember to vote on November 8, 2016.
I will be voting a straight Democratic ticket, top to bottom.
2
You may assume Trump considered Arianne Zucker as less than fully desirable on that day in 2005 and not even actually a top-tier woman. From what I noticed about her on the tape, she was on the flat chested side rather than full. Trump has already said it is virtually impossible for any woman to be a 10 if she is not full chested. Poor Donald must have been disappointed.
1
Two words: Eric Cartman
1
From the maw of, "I am your voice," spews this vile sub-human objectification. The GOP has truly signed away its soul to have anything to do with this man who not only using his then wealth and power to prey on a young married woman- but having then being newly married again himself with his wife seemingly being pregnant at the time with his last child! Even more sickening now is the aftermath of excuses of his having been "young and immature" at the time– a 60 year-old thrice married man?! How has the patriarchy succeeded to make that the response to any transgressor more than 10 years old!
1
It would be great to think that this tawdry episode will do away with the old boys' club, but don't hold your breath. This kind of thing has gone on too long, and the many unreformed males will call any such effort as PC run amok. It's not, but this is a handy meme to get away. To coin a phrase, boys will be boys.
1
Not seeing a necessary distinction drawn, where it’s not what he said that he can apologize for but who he is that would say such things that we should be focusing on in qualifying him for the presidency.
1
Paul Ryan is a such a FRAUD to support Donald Trump..I used to like Paul Ryan but he has no common sense. Paul Ryan is just another mouth in search of ear and a vote. So disappointed in Ryan to not do the decent thing and tell Trump that he has crossed a disturbing line. What Trump says and does is not in the name of decent Americans, those that have died defending it's values or the bravery and genius of the patriots and founding fathers.
3
So this man who cannot control his own impulses, or his mouth for that matter, wants to control women's bodies through legislation on abortion? And what happens when Putin brings a beautiful woman with him to negotiate with President Trump? How is Trump, whom admits that he cannot control himself in the presence of beautiful women, going to negotiate the best deal for our country?
6
I have no illusions that many men engage in this objectification of women and thus I am neither surprised or shocked at Trump's words. The point is, we have a choice this election - we don't have to settle for more of the same sexist attitudes. We as a society can send a clear message of repudiation of the old boys' club with our votes.
As to Trump's characterization of the issue as a "distraction", no, Mr. Trump. Groping women is just as important an issue to me as the economy, jobs, and foreign policy. And just because you claim Bill Clinton said or did things as bad doesn't make your behavior okay and doesn't make you any better than the pervert on the subway.
As to Trump's characterization of the issue as a "distraction", no, Mr. Trump. Groping women is just as important an issue to me as the economy, jobs, and foreign policy. And just because you claim Bill Clinton said or did things as bad doesn't make your behavior okay and doesn't make you any better than the pervert on the subway.
4
Donald Trump very much resembles Charlie Croker in Tom Wolfe's 'A Man in Full'.
1
Trump may have released and leaked this video. The crazy behavior, a schtick. Brilliant.
Donors buy up all his debt, sell it to him for pennies on the dollar, and he will resign.
Otherwise he sinks the whole rotten lot with him.
They lose their in.
Ask yourself, would he quit for the right price?
He has always bragged about making money while running for president. Take him for his word on that.
Donors buy up all his debt, sell it to him for pennies on the dollar, and he will resign.
Otherwise he sinks the whole rotten lot with him.
They lose their in.
Ask yourself, would he quit for the right price?
He has always bragged about making money while running for president. Take him for his word on that.
3
His Billion Dollar Fine for the RNC passing a platform plank outlawing Porn?
I doubt it.
The Koch Bros. will use it to argue to spend all their bucks down stream and let Trump dangle.
They deserve to lose ugly. Because they are all an ugly bunch of souls.
Their votes for Trump are based on the hate and demonization of other.
Faceless immigrants; women who are ''Libs'' (not slave-compliants); black people; people who believe that stopping our world from being destroyed is more important than a job mining coal that causes black lung; Muslims whom they refuse to know or acknowledge as human beings; people who don't want to get shot 'by accident' from someone else's bullet because they're too many guns.
This is the basket of broken toys Trump can claim as 'his base.' I can have sympathy for any individual in that group and agree they deserve a job, education, health insurance, and dignity, and will vote for Hillary Clinton to help ensure that someone cares for them despite their best efforts to the contrary. Love not Hate.
I doubt it.
The Koch Bros. will use it to argue to spend all their bucks down stream and let Trump dangle.
They deserve to lose ugly. Because they are all an ugly bunch of souls.
Their votes for Trump are based on the hate and demonization of other.
Faceless immigrants; women who are ''Libs'' (not slave-compliants); black people; people who believe that stopping our world from being destroyed is more important than a job mining coal that causes black lung; Muslims whom they refuse to know or acknowledge as human beings; people who don't want to get shot 'by accident' from someone else's bullet because they're too many guns.
This is the basket of broken toys Trump can claim as 'his base.' I can have sympathy for any individual in that group and agree they deserve a job, education, health insurance, and dignity, and will vote for Hillary Clinton to help ensure that someone cares for them despite their best efforts to the contrary. Love not Hate.
What's so sad about this is the men (a small percentage it seems) who are defending Trump by saying this is normal male conversation. No, it is not! Talking about forcing yourself on women by grabbing their genitals is disgusting and incredibly sleazy. Period.
Thank you for writing this. I too found this to be the most distressing part of the video.
I now remember those days, knowing that it was going on around me. I believe the actress new as well. She was a professional and kept acting
I now remember those days, knowing that it was going on around me. I believe the actress new as well. She was a professional and kept acting
1
It's wonderfully described, the secret "bus" where the crude men "take apart" the women before arranging fake expressions of politeness on their public faces to meet the lovely young actress. But you can tell she knew; we women always knew who the abusers were.
I could feel it, like a deer who hears the snap of a twig and catches the whiff of a predator. And if this sounds horrible and like I felt like a victim, yes, it was horrible, and yes, I was a victim of rape by an acquaintance. At a high school reunion a group of my female friends counted how many of us had been raped-it was 80%. None had reported; all had instinctively assumed a persona of strength that carried us through our late 20's and our 30's without further attacks. So when he was nominated, I knew who Trump was all along.
Today I'm glad the truth is out while being sad that such a truth exists in our society. My dream is that our first woman president marks a turning point in the struggle of women to live as respected, powerful human beings in this world.
I could feel it, like a deer who hears the snap of a twig and catches the whiff of a predator. And if this sounds horrible and like I felt like a victim, yes, it was horrible, and yes, I was a victim of rape by an acquaintance. At a high school reunion a group of my female friends counted how many of us had been raped-it was 80%. None had reported; all had instinctively assumed a persona of strength that carried us through our late 20's and our 30's without further attacks. So when he was nominated, I knew who Trump was all along.
Today I'm glad the truth is out while being sad that such a truth exists in our society. My dream is that our first woman president marks a turning point in the struggle of women to live as respected, powerful human beings in this world.
3
PART 1--While Trumps words are certainly not the most appropriate, it's unrealistic to act as though this isn't the standard boys-club banter that has, and always will, exist. Those two men were boasting and talking that way with the expectation of privacy and isn't necessarily indicative of anything truthful on their part. It was simply one man egging on another to exhibit his masculinity, most likely to win the affection of the woman who was also in the van--who hasn't seen an ounce of backlash publicly for her role in this 11 year old, private conversation. This is a society where woman and beauty are viewed as prizes, and where the presence of such characteristics leads to higher salaries and greater perceived worth, rapists get 30 days in jail, children are encouraged to be overly (and overtly) sexualized, and worth is measured by appearance all too frequently. The only different between Trump and Bush engaging in this kind of pushy sexual fantasy talk is that they were recorded doing so; I truly think you'd be hard-pressed to find ONE MAN who hasn't commented on the female form to some degree without her permission, or ONE WOMAN who hasn't oogled a man without his consent (american made a frenzy out of an "attractive" man's mugshot for several years or the man-bun guy....did they consent?).
2
All very valid, and hopeful - but the tip of the iceberg. If we define "Boys' Club" in a broader sense (and we should), it will include the entertainment industry, Silicon Valley, most of organized religions across the world, governments (again, across the world), the media, the sports industry, the military/weapons manufacturing complex, and of course Wall Street and the corporations that pull the strings behind ... everything.
There are countless "kings of boys' clubs" besides Donald Trump. It's time to look at the world and consider the consequences.
There are countless "kings of boys' clubs" besides Donald Trump. It's time to look at the world and consider the consequences.
Adding to the sleaziness of the scene is that the woman Trump was pressuring to sleep with him reportedly was Nancy O'Dell, who was a work colleague of Billy Bush and had to work with Trump in his beauty pageants.
The complete lack of respect of both men toward women is despicable. But, you're right: the two-faced approach both men had to the actress meeting them off the bus is what gives us truly telling insight into the Old Boy's Club.
The complete lack of respect of both men toward women is despicable. But, you're right: the two-faced approach both men had to the actress meeting them off the bus is what gives us truly telling insight into the Old Boy's Club.
3
Some adolescents acted like this in the 50's. No adults do now, except for a few total idiots like Trump. Hard to believe he is a candidate for president.
1
Susan: dammit! Even writing that HRC's election will decrease by one whit gives new meaning to the words 'irony' and 'naive'. Jesus, the hoops you guys will jump through to elect libs. DJT has met Bill Clinton. Bill Clinton is a friend of his. And he, Trump, is no Bill Clinton.
I pray for a truly unbiased press.
I pray for a truly unbiased press.
The Good Ole' Boys club of utilizing celebrity, money and power to prey upon young and vulnerable women and sexually assault them.
What is the difference between Trump and Bill Cosby except Cosby used a date rape drug? They're both sexual predators and cut from the same cloth.
What is the difference between Trump and Bill Cosby except Cosby used a date rape drug? They're both sexual predators and cut from the same cloth.
1
"Don't you worry your pretty little head about it," he said. Then he nearly herniated a disc peering down my well-buttoned blouse. And I realized that from that angle, he probably got a look.
No. I'm not talking about Trump. I'm talking about Trump as Everyman. Trump as the slimy, sixty year-old owner of the company I worked for when I was nineteen .
Every man is not like this. But when I was young, it often felt like it.
No. I'm not talking about Trump. I'm talking about Trump as Everyman. Trump as the slimy, sixty year-old owner of the company I worked for when I was nineteen .
Every man is not like this. But when I was young, it often felt like it.
2
Seeing a Thelma and Louise moment here with the Good Old Boys Bus going over the cliff - Please!
Will we be hearing Rudy Giuliani and Chris Christie on the main stream media identifying some aspect of this piggish behavior as another example of Trump’s ‘genius’? Or will those two be running for cover as well.
1
"It may also turn out to be the wrecking ball that takes down the club for good."
Well said--and let's hope it does. And, yes indeed, this tape is much more than lewd or extremely lewd--even "disturbing" may be too mild a descriptor.
Well said--and let's hope it does. And, yes indeed, this tape is much more than lewd or extremely lewd--even "disturbing" may be too mild a descriptor.
2
I wish I thought that this kind of sexist entitlement and objectification is old-fashioned, but I had the poor judgment once to read the comments section on an article published not that long ago on another site discussing how women groomed themselves in the most private area of their anatomy. The comments from quite a few young men were extremely disheartening in the ways they felt any woman they desired should groom themselves to the man's taste and expectations, in addition to the slurs they directed at any hypothetical woman who wouldn't conform. I'm afraid these toxic roots run deep. But hopefully, if there is a silver lining to this grotesque tape, perhaps this kind of discussion will start to change in light of the offensiveness and discomfiting assumptions made on the part of such entitled men.
1
Why not call it what it actually is? It is advocacy (albeit in private) for sexual assault, plain and simple. I think it is lewd, some may think extremely lewd, whatever. Some may think it is funny, I suppose, so just state the facts: advocacy for and normalization of sexual assault.
The Citizens United ruling by the Supreme Court has become manna from heaven for the Clinton campaign. Ironic that the decision to allow the Koch Brothers to finance commercials in 2008 to dump mud on Hillary Clinton, has given her team absolute free rein to tear Trump and every Republican that still sees him as a sane choice for POTUS to shreds. He better forget whinging about nasty ads, his party wanted it that way.
So now Republican office holder's eyes are finally open to the crass, crude, morally bankrupt candidate they have put forth. Give me a break! This leopard has not changed his stripes from the get go. They say you can judge a man by his friends. Look at Trump's "advisers"- Ailes, Giuliani, Christie- all men who reside in the gutter. The only news that would top this - Melania sues for divorce. Enough is enough!
2
How horrifically demeaning this man has been. Could we possibly let our country be treated same way? Haven't we all been made a bunch of Zuckers? Are Ryan and McConnell not letting the Old Boy get his way. The horror, the horror.
When I was growing up (I'm 74 now) I never could identify or participate in this kind of talk --it always made me feel stupid-- and until I got a little older I thought something was wrong with me. Even while serving in the military this sort of banter always vaguely embarrassed me. I've heard enough already from this dinosaur Trump and his bovine orations. Good riddance when he's gone from the scene !
3
It wasn't enough when he was being himself whilst attacking war heros, the disabled, Gold Star parents, Mexicans, Muslims, critical of woman's bodies or Federally appointed judges of Mexican descent ..in the end, it'll be himself that will undo him. The mysoginy, the blatant racism, classism, the idiosy, the uncouthness and vulgarity and cheapness. The multiple marriages, the multiple children, the lack of contributions to the tax base. You need to disavow this sorry excuse of a candidate for the highest office in the land today! He is a stain on our party. Disgusting.
YES you nailed it, Susan - the extremely disturbing dynamic after they get off the bus. I had to watch the video several times to absorb the different levels of grossness and duplicity. Great writing - thank you!
2
How shocking, a lewd, crude and rude immature male making sexist comments and saying nasty things to women.
No surprise from trainwreck Trump, and I wouldn't want him in the White House, but I wouldn't want the former Philanderer In Chief there either.
Bill Clinton is just as bad in how he treated and demeaned women, he's made crude cigar jokes about Monica Lewinsky since that time, and he had the benefit of his misadventures before the advent of anti-social media.
No surprise from trainwreck Trump, and I wouldn't want him in the White House, but I wouldn't want the former Philanderer In Chief there either.
Bill Clinton is just as bad in how he treated and demeaned women, he's made crude cigar jokes about Monica Lewinsky since that time, and he had the benefit of his misadventures before the advent of anti-social media.
1
The man wants to have sex with his own daughter a no one blinked at that comment. He'll be gone from the race on Monday. Ship him over to Russia.
Where was Susan Dominus and other feminists when Ayaan Hirsi Ali, Dutch born Muslim circumcised at age of 5 had her invitation to speak at Brandeis University cancelled because of pressure from Muslim groups on campus and from CARE?Observed that in softball interview with Gloria Steinhem subject was never brought up, and GS seemed chary of offering an opinion.Afraid of the backlash from care and other pro-Islam lobbyists,Ms,Steinhem?"et Tu Brutus," NYT? No issue is more important to a woman's health and happiness than sexual satisfaction, and to be deprived of ever having a climax is the ultimate crime. Yet neither HRC, Steinhem, NOW or any human rights groups have kept their distance So DT made a few lubricious, goatish remarks about women that one would hear in any army barracks or locker room, so what? Compared to moral cowardice of our feminists to condemn, denounce fgm,DT's Rabelaisian words r without real importance.Hypocrisy of the left on this issue is truly amazing.
Get out the wrecking ball! Close the club! Erect barriers! Begone old boys! You have done nothing to help humanity, relieve pain and suffering, make the world a better place. You do not have solutions for this nation's problems. Any woman who votes for the old boys is either a masochist or a fool.
1
Calling Arianne Zucker "it" rather than "she" says it all. Not a person, but a thing. What is so fearful about acknowledging women as people equal to yourself and not merely there for your predations?
Is there some love and admiration buried in these kinds of expressions? Perhaps. After all, Trump is not a monster; he is a father and a husband -- even though we all know Melania did not get a great deal when she tied the knot with him. She already had success and prosperity.
Perhaps, for men such as Trump, acknowledging that women are people, not objects, exposes a vulnerability they fear revealing because it shows them as mortals. And this is why a Trump presidency would be so hazardous for our country: If your sole consideration in national and international affairs is to "best" someone, then you will never ever make decisions based on the common good. Sure we all want good deals for ourselves, but not at the expense of someone else's abjection. Think: "Mexico will pay for the Wall; I guarantee it." Under a Trump presidency, America would become the most hated nation on earth.
Yet Trump did not spring forth in a vacuum. Many have noted he's a product of the Mad Men 50's and 60's. I wonder if the continuing sexualization of females, no matter their age, widely evident in advertising and in popular culture, doesn't help explain a little why Trump male supporters feel "on the hook," literally strung up by the culture and economy that gives them so few choices.
Is there some love and admiration buried in these kinds of expressions? Perhaps. After all, Trump is not a monster; he is a father and a husband -- even though we all know Melania did not get a great deal when she tied the knot with him. She already had success and prosperity.
Perhaps, for men such as Trump, acknowledging that women are people, not objects, exposes a vulnerability they fear revealing because it shows them as mortals. And this is why a Trump presidency would be so hazardous for our country: If your sole consideration in national and international affairs is to "best" someone, then you will never ever make decisions based on the common good. Sure we all want good deals for ourselves, but not at the expense of someone else's abjection. Think: "Mexico will pay for the Wall; I guarantee it." Under a Trump presidency, America would become the most hated nation on earth.
Yet Trump did not spring forth in a vacuum. Many have noted he's a product of the Mad Men 50's and 60's. I wonder if the continuing sexualization of females, no matter their age, widely evident in advertising and in popular culture, doesn't help explain a little why Trump male supporters feel "on the hook," literally strung up by the culture and economy that gives them so few choices.
Time to put pressure down the ballot. If we cannot remove the poison itself, all within its toxic radius ought to be quarantined.
11 years ago is not very long ago at all. And much too short a period of time for significant social change to have occurred. If anyone thinks this type of behavior has disappeared in the work place - particularly the business world, VC world, entertainment industry etc - think again.
1
In 1964 the GOP nominated its conservative superstar Barry Goldwater as its nominee. In 2016 the conservative dominance of the GOP is complete.
There is only one problem the word conservative does not mean what people who know English think it means.
When Barry Goldwater received the GOP nomination his acceptance speech was written by Karl Hess. Karl Hess was the polar opposite of a conservative. Hess was an anarchist, Hess was a libertarian, Hess was a hedonist, Hess believed everyone should be able to carry a gun. Hess did not believe in paying tax. Hess did not believe there was such a thing as a legitimate government.
The GOP is a very legitimate offspring of Karl Hess and Barry Goldwater as are so many of its leaders like Donald Trump, Paul Ryan and Rand Paul. The only difference between today's GOP and Karl Hess is that Karl Hess didn't pretend to be a Christian.
There is only one problem the word conservative does not mean what people who know English think it means.
When Barry Goldwater received the GOP nomination his acceptance speech was written by Karl Hess. Karl Hess was the polar opposite of a conservative. Hess was an anarchist, Hess was a libertarian, Hess was a hedonist, Hess believed everyone should be able to carry a gun. Hess did not believe in paying tax. Hess did not believe there was such a thing as a legitimate government.
The GOP is a very legitimate offspring of Karl Hess and Barry Goldwater as are so many of its leaders like Donald Trump, Paul Ryan and Rand Paul. The only difference between today's GOP and Karl Hess is that Karl Hess didn't pretend to be a Christian.
1
If anyone thinks Trump's opponent is going to usher in an era of new respect for women they are gravely mistaken. HRC did not just enable her husband's predatory ways, and what he did with 19 year old Monica Lewinsky was as predatory as it gets, she attacked, bullied and threatened her husband's accusers. The hypocrisy and gleeful self-righteousness is jut a little too much for me to stomach. Time for the media to get out of the gutter as the mud-slinging arm of the HRC campaign and get back to the real issues that Americans care about: the decline of domestic security, over-taxation, over-regulation, the assault on our constitutional freedoms and the global conflicts that, if not created by the current administration's policies and actions (or inaction), have certainly been worsened by them, and this include's Hillary's polices during her tenure as Secretary of State.
1
This type of misogynistic banter takes place every day in boardrooms, locker rooms and living rooms across the country. This is a product of a "good ole boys club," that thinks of women as property to conquest, to sexually own and dominate. This patriarchy is propped up in countless and insidious ways every second of every day in this and other countries.
Does this fact forgive Trump from being this way? In profound and sad ways, it actually has. Hundreds of millions of men across the planet think, act, and speak this way.
But, do we as a nation have to turn a blind eye to sexist behavior like this? No we don't. We have another choice. We have to collectively say we know behavior like this objectifies women and continues the hyper-sexualization of our young people. We have a chance to say, this type of behavior is not the behavior we want celebrated. This is not the behavior we want in our elected officials or athletes. This is not the behavior we want in our work places. Not in our business leaders. Not in our fathers, brothers, or sons. This is not the behavior we want accepted by our mothers, sisters and daughters, nor modeled and taught to our children.
It is up to men and women across the country of every political identity to step up and say, we are better than this. We will not elect leaders of this quality. We must face this down for the health of all individuals, men, women, boys and girls the world over. The dominating patriarchy and all it corrupts must change.
Does this fact forgive Trump from being this way? In profound and sad ways, it actually has. Hundreds of millions of men across the planet think, act, and speak this way.
But, do we as a nation have to turn a blind eye to sexist behavior like this? No we don't. We have another choice. We have to collectively say we know behavior like this objectifies women and continues the hyper-sexualization of our young people. We have a chance to say, this type of behavior is not the behavior we want celebrated. This is not the behavior we want in our elected officials or athletes. This is not the behavior we want in our work places. Not in our business leaders. Not in our fathers, brothers, or sons. This is not the behavior we want accepted by our mothers, sisters and daughters, nor modeled and taught to our children.
It is up to men and women across the country of every political identity to step up and say, we are better than this. We will not elect leaders of this quality. We must face this down for the health of all individuals, men, women, boys and girls the world over. The dominating patriarchy and all it corrupts must change.
2
Trump is disgusting and BILLY BUSH is just as reprehensible as Trump...he is a sycophant, egging him on, putting Arianne Zucker in an awkward, powerless position and gloating over his connection with the good 'ole boy and benefiting with a hug of his own. Shame on him..I've never been moved to comment on things like this before..but consequences must be enforced...NBC execs, fire that man ...I don't want to watch him preen and grovel at 9 a.m.
3
I don't think this club has been destroyed. Milo Y and his male followers directed a barrage of racist and sexist images to the actress Leslie Jones for her "crime" of starring in a remake of Ghostbusters. Women in gaming also face crude sexual language from men. It goes on and on. Nothing has ended and nothing has changed. Trump is just the tip of the iceberg, many continue to follow.
1
I like the idea that Trump will be the destroyer of the old boy (or all boy) network, but his exposure is simply a tiny drop in a huge bucket of cultural objectification of women (see rape culture) that goes on to this day and begins in earnest at elite universities all over the country. His exposure is amplified only by the fact that he is running for president. Trump's crude behaviour did not go out in the 70's as evidenced by the campus rape culture, the existence of Kappa Beta Phi (all male), and even the IMF's Dominique Strauss-Kahn. It is alive and well. Many people are acting as though this isn't part of the culture, but it is. The sooner we acknowledge that this is the world we live in, the sooner we can change it.
1
Well, "the October surprise" has just crushed the Republican Party like the iceberg that hit the Titanic. And with Mike Pence and Paul Ryan deciding to stay on board, it looks like like the "old boy's club" is going down with all the sleaze enabling, sexist Congressional Republican groping hands with it.
I suspect that this is only one coversation of many and the more will drop soon. The heat will now be on the production company for the Apprentice to release Trump's comments to support the statements of the staff and some contestants. What will tomorrow bring?
1
Just love the direct and concise writing on this Notebook article, Susan Dominus; that is GENIUS...!
There was an article that came out this past Monday, that I missed, but need to look up, about his conduct during the filming of the Apprentice. Rachel Maddow pointed out that this took place on the set, with 10 or more cameras rolling. Her team reached out to the network (NBC) and was told they don't own the videos, but the production company does; Mark Burnett. Her team reached out to the production company, which didn't even replay with a "no comment" statement...! If these videos ever come to light, it should sink him like Atlantis...!
There was an article that came out this past Monday, that I missed, but need to look up, about his conduct during the filming of the Apprentice. Rachel Maddow pointed out that this took place on the set, with 10 or more cameras rolling. Her team reached out to the network (NBC) and was told they don't own the videos, but the production company does; Mark Burnett. Her team reached out to the production company, which didn't even replay with a "no comment" statement...! If these videos ever come to light, it should sink him like Atlantis...!
1
Trump as far as we know is not a member of any club. He had to build his own clubs that would have him. He is not a gentleman. He is a deadbeat. His verbal and sexual assault styles and shabby-loser reputation preceded his candidacy by decades, at least so around New York. Speak up people. When we do not, we learn all over again that it can happen here.
I appreciate this article, and its message about the disgusting sexism of a presidential candidate. However, I want to make clear that Trump's disturbing comments are not a part of a world that women 'rarely see'. I am sixteen. I get catcalled almost weekly, and that's not unusual for young women in my area. It is hard for me to recall a time at which I was not aware of men like Donald Trump--before their eyes rested on my body, my mother and my sister shifted under their gaze. This piece makes it sounds as though the woman Trump and Bush are discussing is clueless to their dehumanizing objectification; though I cannot speak for her, I would guess that she is not. I'd guess that men have said things just as ugly to her face, that at this point in her career she knows what to expect from Trump and his ilk. She is not ignorant; she has no option but to play along. She knows that if she spoke up, her career would be jeopardized by a society that refused to acknowledge everyday sexism.
5
Arianne Zucker was so clearly discomfitted by Trump's advance. She carried on with grace. Trump is so disgusting. Not sure I'm buying Bush's "apology."
15
This is not just who Donald Trump is on a personal level. It's also who the Republican Party is on a larger level. The Republicans have shown over and over again that all that matters to them was supporting the candidate who was the natural child of their most vile beliefs that date back decades. They might not want to invite him over for dinner but they have been willing to accept him because they thought he would win.
18
Thank you so much for your thoughtful commentary Susan. The problem is not just about his locker room language as some would suggest. This a form of sexual assault. It is grown up rape culture and it's annihilating to women. I don't know how anyone could imagine this man as the leader of our country?
14
It's a nice thought, ".....the wrecking ball that takes down the club for good." But one should not hold their breath for good. I would imagine the video will play endlessly at frat parties and every other masculine setting where the boys gather for a very long time. Men lose it hearing phrases like, "grab their pussy,' and that ain't about to end. Women will remain fair game for these red meat types for generations and generations to come. On and off-campus rape is rampant and I can't imagine it ending anytime soon. This election cycle with Hillary Clinton getting piled on again and again, and this has been happening to her for close to 30 years now-Yeah, 30 years, is a terrific example of just what women are up against when they try and climb onto a stage the men call their own. Oh yeah, they can climb on stage all right, but they'd better pucker-up and be ready to disrobe once they get there.
11
I have seen a lot of descriptions thrown around this subject - lewd, sleazy, coarse, disturbing, disrespectful, crude, distasteful, and so on.
We need to call this behavior what it is and stop referring to the old boys club, or letting younger men/boys off the hook.
Those on the defensive are saying "Its was 11 years ago!!!" as if that makes it OK! trump was 60! Billy Bush was 33!
Call me extreme but I call this a psychological problem. How does a rational and normal human being find it any where close to acceptable to speak about another living thing this way. It is an extreme antipathy, an extreme lack of empathy, the kind that is a half-step (if that) away from justifying harm to another living thing.
The thoughtful, kind, reasonable, sane among us must talk about this in an absolute way because it is unbelievable to me how long this has gone on.
This is not sleazy or lewd or crude-this is wrong, in the most serious way. And anyone thinking that a person who has talked and thought this way, no matter what his age, is fit to be the leader of our country, needs some serious therapy.
We need to call this behavior what it is and stop referring to the old boys club, or letting younger men/boys off the hook.
Those on the defensive are saying "Its was 11 years ago!!!" as if that makes it OK! trump was 60! Billy Bush was 33!
Call me extreme but I call this a psychological problem. How does a rational and normal human being find it any where close to acceptable to speak about another living thing this way. It is an extreme antipathy, an extreme lack of empathy, the kind that is a half-step (if that) away from justifying harm to another living thing.
The thoughtful, kind, reasonable, sane among us must talk about this in an absolute way because it is unbelievable to me how long this has gone on.
This is not sleazy or lewd or crude-this is wrong, in the most serious way. And anyone thinking that a person who has talked and thought this way, no matter what his age, is fit to be the leader of our country, needs some serious therapy.
24
You make the assumption that men are this and nothing else, therefore ALL men need to be taken down.
I find both Trump, and this conclusion, sickening and wrong.
I find both Trump, and this conclusion, sickening and wrong.
3
I'm curious as to why there hasn't been more fallout over Billy Bush's participation in this conversation. The laughter and comments shows that Bush was right there with Trump, agreeing with him and encouraging him.
Bush's excuse is that he was younger and less mature then, but he was 33 years old. Perhaps that lets him off the hook a bit, but Trump was 59 at the time.
What a mess we've gotten ourselves into.
Bush's excuse is that he was younger and less mature then, but he was 33 years old. Perhaps that lets him off the hook a bit, but Trump was 59 at the time.
What a mess we've gotten ourselves into.
11
Trump is disgusting, so is Billy Bush--being Trump's pimp. I wonder what Melania Trump is thinking right now--Trump publicly humiliated her by talking about trying to have sex with a married woman. We should "blame" her for standing by her husband--the same logic Trump uses to attack Hilary Clinton.
I don't know the old boys' club will end soon, because not just some men but also some women themselves support the patriarchal system, and they will still vote for Trump, sad, very sad indeed.
I don't know the old boys' club will end soon, because not just some men but also some women themselves support the patriarchal system, and they will still vote for Trump, sad, very sad indeed.
8
Keep Trump as the Republican standard bearer! He represent what the majority of Republicans believe. Fox News, Koch bros, and the entire Republican establishment have created and promoted this vile populist cesspool. It needs to be held up for all to see. They need to be shamed to reform and/or die. For decades they supported the worst of human motivations. Now this is manifest with the pathology of Trump.
The Republican Party's replacement needs to be tempered by the fire of humiliation and rebuilt with true secular virtue that supports all the citizens of our nation.
The Republican Party's replacement needs to be tempered by the fire of humiliation and rebuilt with true secular virtue that supports all the citizens of our nation.
19
The turn of events is a sad commentary on US culture, especially the media and a Hollywood fueled excess of violence and sexuality in popular films and television.
Mr Trumps so-called lewd recordings and antics is nothing but every day locker room behavior of men and some women and par for the course in many movies and television shows.
Did you see any recent horror movies? Women being raped, tortured, stabbed and maimed?
So anyone, male or female, should first denounce the pop and current medical culture that fueled the type of behavior now exposed in the
Trump tapes.
Mr Trumps so-called lewd recordings and antics is nothing but every day locker room behavior of men and some women and par for the course in many movies and television shows.
Did you see any recent horror movies? Women being raped, tortured, stabbed and maimed?
So anyone, male or female, should first denounce the pop and current medical culture that fueled the type of behavior now exposed in the
Trump tapes.
8
Brought back memories of being a waitress in the 1970's. Men grabbing my breasts and butt with total impunity. Rude sexual comments right in front of their girlfriends/wives. The need to just ignore it all in order to keep the job and make a living. The Boys' Club is alive and well, but we're coming for you guys, we're coming for you. And guess who we have on board? Young adult women AND men who truly get how immoral and repulsive this behavior is. Seeing all the "beautiful" women surrounding Trump, with their perfect bodies, perfect hair, made-up faces, and high heels excusing his boorish misogynistic behavior makes me furious. Money is obviously still the first priority for those women.
33
Spot on. Connect the patriarchal dots. Objectifying women is the companion of the pro-life position. It is but a collection of parts-- legs, boobs, a uterus.
The Republican Party was totally comfortable with Its standard bearer's open contempt for people of color, the disabled, and veterans. But demeaning the ultimate symbol of Virtue, white womanhood on a pedestal in need of protection, they said no more.
America, search thyself. I hear people offended for their daughters and granddaughters, which doesn't go far enough. Be offended for all citizens, all humans. That which is disgusting, repugnant, repellent, all relevant thesaurus entries, should be rejected outright on moral grounds.
That said, I feel bad for Melania and the 10 year old kid. Some things, money just can't buy.
The Republican Party was totally comfortable with Its standard bearer's open contempt for people of color, the disabled, and veterans. But demeaning the ultimate symbol of Virtue, white womanhood on a pedestal in need of protection, they said no more.
America, search thyself. I hear people offended for their daughters and granddaughters, which doesn't go far enough. Be offended for all citizens, all humans. That which is disgusting, repugnant, repellent, all relevant thesaurus entries, should be rejected outright on moral grounds.
That said, I feel bad for Melania and the 10 year old kid. Some things, money just can't buy.
10
Melania knew exactly what she was getting into.
Men can be vulgar, and none of this comes as a surprise. If Trump had adopted an elegant tone when it comes to addressing the Fairer Sex, this might have been interesting. A memory comes to mind of a woman, once a secretary in the Private Sector, the powerful men, sometimes dangerous. 'She's pretty but too thin', two men standing and speaking to each other out loud. Perhaps she does not hear, or is a dumb beast.
Either way, she does not care. Fast-forward to years later. 'Not in front of the lady', a construction worker to another, both Trump supporters. She's heard it all and her years of blushing are over. So we know that Trump sounds revolting, but it was Truman Capote who knocked my socks off when he wrote his 'Answered Prayers' and his true stories which destroyed him. True, he was not running for the Presidency.
Trump is real. He has been the most fantastic distraction for our Nation, and can he please take his hat and go home? I want a President for my Country! We have only a month left, and we are still going on about him and his antics. Why so quiet all of a sudden here in "Trump-Land"? Some people are worried about surviving the aftermath of this Recession.
Strong women and men on both sides of the political Country have been shouting that it is time to work. Work for a better future for starters, and for those who are still agitated by old boy, Chump, they can read 'My Life and Loves' by Frank Harris, which may bore and put them to sleep.
Either way, she does not care. Fast-forward to years later. 'Not in front of the lady', a construction worker to another, both Trump supporters. She's heard it all and her years of blushing are over. So we know that Trump sounds revolting, but it was Truman Capote who knocked my socks off when he wrote his 'Answered Prayers' and his true stories which destroyed him. True, he was not running for the Presidency.
Trump is real. He has been the most fantastic distraction for our Nation, and can he please take his hat and go home? I want a President for my Country! We have only a month left, and we are still going on about him and his antics. Why so quiet all of a sudden here in "Trump-Land"? Some people are worried about surviving the aftermath of this Recession.
Strong women and men on both sides of the political Country have been shouting that it is time to work. Work for a better future for starters, and for those who are still agitated by old boy, Chump, they can read 'My Life and Loves' by Frank Harris, which may bore and put them to sleep.
1
You may recall several scenes in the movie "Silence Of The Lambs" in which one of the characters, having abducted a woman and imprisoned her at the bottom of a well, repeatedly refers to his victim as "It". I leave you draw your own comparisons between the fictional sexual predator/pervert and Mr. Trump.
8
Good riddance to the old boy's network. About time. #ImWithHer
7
This is beyond belief- what has happened to our great nation. Con Don (as all Con's do) successfully manipulated to get him elected as the nominee of the Republican Party. Con Don is not a human. This creatures is a pathological liar bully and free loader. While all of us work very hard to make a living, he enjoys the posh Manhattan life with the family without paying a penny. In fact, we the taxpayers have supported him for life. Con Don is the welfare king. I cannot fathom how a die hard Republican can vote for him, if the individual has any conscience.
9
A piercing and effective analysis.
6
Well what can one expect from a guy who says things like his daughter is hot, he would date etc. Any father who can say things like that, can say all these extremely disturbing and horrible things about women. And shame on all Republicans who are still supporting him, and then you call yourselves people with family values.
17
Call "private part" what it is... genitalia - more specifically "vulva." As long as slang words are slung about, why not anatomically correct terminology?
"Most private part" is a throw back phrase that does not educate folks who may only have slang terms in their vocabulary.
This is in no way condones Trumps morally bankrupt world view.
"Most private part" is a throw back phrase that does not educate folks who may only have slang terms in their vocabulary.
This is in no way condones Trumps morally bankrupt world view.
2
Had dinner last night at a big local watering hole in Pennsylvania, eavesdropping on a pack of middle-aged guys who thought that Trump's latest revealed escapade was most entertaining, still wholeheartedly supported him, and then spent the rest of the evening repeating conspiracy theories from alt-right news sources and linked to them by their equally rabid friends on social media. Sorry for the run-on sentence, but how low must Trump sink, what sort of new revelation do we need (treason? child trafficking?) before these voters are willing to finally turn away?
22
Trump's behavior is seriously weird. He treats women as though they are all plastic sex dolls. At the same time he's looking at all the men around him for their approval. If there were no male audience, it seems it would fall flat for him, no longed-for reward. He's seems to have a big empty hole in him that cannot be filled-what I cannot work out is just what he needs to fill the hole. Stuck in adolescence, yes.
I wonder what a seasoned psychologist would make of all that.
I wonder what a seasoned psychologist would make of all that.
3
This is an excellent article that really highlights the issues here. Donald Trump is an example of all that is wrong with sexism and racism, and Hillary Clinton is a remedy for that, a step in the right direction. How anyone with a conscience could support Trump now is beyond me.
10
Its not just lewd remarks judging these women passing by him, the so called "locker room" remarks, the worst of Trump's behavior is his remarks explaining his celebrity status bestows an entitlement to molest and harass women, any women apparently.
He is a sexual predator.
He is a sexual predator.
20
my take away is; if this guy bush could entice, chide or coax trump into being so stupidly forthcoming, how will his handlers reign him in when dealing with real foreign leaders.
6
This whole thing has reminded me of my first "professional" job right out of college whereby I was hired by a national charity to enlist local sponsors for the charity's national telethon. I arranged for an event at a local prominent hair salon. The owner was "famous" in our town - even doing the first lady's hair on a regular basis. As the day progressed, I was aware of his casual flirtations, but I was unprepared for when he invited me into his office to "learn more about the charity." He chased me around his office with abandon - trying to push his way onto me. Finally, I was able to disentangle myself. I told my female boss what had happened and asked her to understand that I didn't want to go when he requested that I come personally to pick up the event proceeds. She insisted that I had to "do my job." I was too young to dare to say no so I went, scared and repulsed as I was. I won't bore you with the details but there was more chasing, more fending off, etc. It was so ugly and demeaning. And he was so clueless and felt so entitled that he even called me at my parent's home where I was living to see if he could "help" me with my career options. It's amazing to me how easily the powerful can become the predator. They believe their own hype and think they are just as attractive and desirable as the people in their employ say they are. When I saw and heard Trump yesterday, and when I watched as he ogled that actress, I knew that look - the predator on the prowl...
15
I overheard a man at the farmers market defending Trump - "real men do it" - a former mayor if San Diego lost his job for sexual harassment- there are laws that protect people from sexual harassment and they were enacted to prevent this type of intimidation. And our family values Republicans still support this man. Shows what we expected was the truth- no values at all.
10
Perfect! You nailed him! Thanks.
2
Fantastic article (or maybe as Trump would say, "tremendous article. I have a friend - a woman - who also thinks this is tremendous..").
But I think you're over optimistic in thinking this will take down the old boys' club. It's survived sex "scandal" after scandal, from Monica in the White House to pathetic Weiner and his digital peccadillos.
Not only that, what else would they have? There's a shared, wicked joy in tearing people down. Women do it too. And while women can also bond over winning often-un-winnable fights like breaking ceilings, or over the small indignities of incubating and feeding life, what positive experiences do men have to bond over? The white men who comprise Trump's most fervent base have so much in-built privileges that they can't even see them: instead, they focus on what they perceive has been denied them.
Until they have something to live for, they'll continue to rail against.
But I think you're over optimistic in thinking this will take down the old boys' club. It's survived sex "scandal" after scandal, from Monica in the White House to pathetic Weiner and his digital peccadillos.
Not only that, what else would they have? There's a shared, wicked joy in tearing people down. Women do it too. And while women can also bond over winning often-un-winnable fights like breaking ceilings, or over the small indignities of incubating and feeding life, what positive experiences do men have to bond over? The white men who comprise Trump's most fervent base have so much in-built privileges that they can't even see them: instead, they focus on what they perceive has been denied them.
Until they have something to live for, they'll continue to rail against.
6
Trump goes further in parodying himself than any of even the lewdest comics would dare to venture, for fear of crossing the line into disbelief.
These recordings couldn't be a more exaggerated, yet logical extension of the Trump character, if it were all intentionally a work of fiction.
Trump does belong on TV reality shows, for the public to gawk and gasp at. But it would be tragic if his circus act were to move to the White House stage.
Can you just imagine the press briefings??? They'd have to set up the White House press corps behind plexiglass for their own protection.
These recordings couldn't be a more exaggerated, yet logical extension of the Trump character, if it were all intentionally a work of fiction.
Trump does belong on TV reality shows, for the public to gawk and gasp at. But it would be tragic if his circus act were to move to the White House stage.
Can you just imagine the press briefings??? They'd have to set up the White House press corps behind plexiglass for their own protection.
3
This hot mess in our White House? No, no, and no.
13
Good riddance to Trump and all the sleaze and insider cheating that he represents. How the Republican party (and anybody that abides by their holier-than-thou religious fakery) can continue to embrace this idiotic buffoon will remain one of life's great mysteries. Trump doesn't win anymore. Time for him to retreat to his gaudy hotels and lick his, ahem, wounds.
8
More feminist nonsense. Mrs. Clinton gets a pass from the feminist left as she enabled her husband ,dating back to his days in Arkansas, to routinely sexually harass women he ran into as well as cheating on his wife---on numerous occasions. Hers and his behavior is and was far worse then Mr. Trump's potty mouth--but the feminists look the other way. Double-standards abound in the Democratic Party.
2
This needs to be said because very few Americans are saying it: there is no actionable evidence that HRC "enabled her husband" to sexually harass women. Sure; she chose not to divorce her husband -- but that's an oddity of the couple's private life. How they hashed things out belongs to their private lives. Understanding this is not "a pass from the feminist left".
(P.S. I don't even belong to the U.S. I am merely stating how whipping out that getting-a-pass-from-the-feminist-left thing looks from outside the U.S.)
(P.S. I don't even belong to the U.S. I am merely stating how whipping out that getting-a-pass-from-the-feminist-left thing looks from outside the U.S.)
Our beautiful, happy, talented 23 year old daughter is an officer in the U.S. Army. That this "man" could have the power to send her into harm's way makes me physically sick.
23
If anyone doesn't understand what "lower class" is, Trump is the perfect example.
11
People will always crave sex, and the affairs, anger, divorces, and embarrassment that ensue are part of life. Likewise, people love gossip even as they hate being the point of it.
But Donald Trump's behavior goes well beyond extramarital relationships. He's a ruthless predator who uses power, money, fear, and non-disclosure agreements to use young women as his personal toys. It's degrading and evil, but you can bet that a lot of his cohorts are thinking, "There but for the grace of god ..."
But Donald Trump's behavior goes well beyond extramarital relationships. He's a ruthless predator who uses power, money, fear, and non-disclosure agreements to use young women as his personal toys. It's degrading and evil, but you can bet that a lot of his cohorts are thinking, "There but for the grace of god ..."
9
Trump is the king of rape culture and Bush is the court jester. Trump has gone as far as he has because so many men, and a sad number of women, support this attitude. It's the only way many men know how to keep the women in their place. And Hillary's candidacy is inflaming it. Unfortunately, just like racism after Obama, I expect violence against women to rise after Clinton takes the presidency.
5
Parents of the world: we have to do better than previous generations. We have to teach our children respect for each other. The best way to teach social mores is not to preach good behavior, but to model it. Why should children behave themselves when the adults around them do not?
Trump is a disgrace to the male sex, and every self-respecting man knows this. It's heartening to read the many comments from men who condemn his kind of outmoded behavior. I laud the men and women who stand together in favor of equality and respect for all human beings. The wars against sexism (and racism) aren't going to be won unless everyone who believes in human dignity bands together to model better behavior for each other and for future generations.
Trump is a disgrace to the male sex, and every self-respecting man knows this. It's heartening to read the many comments from men who condemn his kind of outmoded behavior. I laud the men and women who stand together in favor of equality and respect for all human beings. The wars against sexism (and racism) aren't going to be won unless everyone who believes in human dignity bands together to model better behavior for each other and for future generations.
12
Yuck it up all you like. But after all the dust settles, all of it, the double standard will be as strong as ever. The double standard that women have to try twice as hard to be half as good. Why does it have to take SOOO MUCH to take this man down? Why did it have to take a year and a half of continuous noxious stories, yes not as bad as this one, to accumulate and finally get him what he deserved the very day Donald announced his candidacy? Why? Because of the inherent double standard that must be eroded each and every day by all of us in any and every way we can. Not to perpetuate it.
Hillary's ills, or transgressions, may amount to half a stick of old dynamite that has done her damage. In contrast Donald has taken the equivalent of four direct hits by nuclear bombs, and he is still sort of standing. Down, but not out. Why is that?
If it were Hillary, or Barack, that would have done any of this Trump-type garbage, they would have been gone in a blink of the eye (ask Anthony Weiner). Why is Donald still standing? His many, many enablers will have to answer for that. What will they say? That this is the way we learn? This is what we need to do to flesh things out?
All the above, and none of it a bit of it dull. The political dynamics are incredible. Never in our lives have we witnessed such an American political drama as this one. Donald has brought change but not in the way he thought. So much for the plans of mice and men.
Hillary's ills, or transgressions, may amount to half a stick of old dynamite that has done her damage. In contrast Donald has taken the equivalent of four direct hits by nuclear bombs, and he is still sort of standing. Down, but not out. Why is that?
If it were Hillary, or Barack, that would have done any of this Trump-type garbage, they would have been gone in a blink of the eye (ask Anthony Weiner). Why is Donald still standing? His many, many enablers will have to answer for that. What will they say? That this is the way we learn? This is what we need to do to flesh things out?
All the above, and none of it a bit of it dull. The political dynamics are incredible. Never in our lives have we witnessed such an American political drama as this one. Donald has brought change but not in the way he thought. So much for the plans of mice and men.
6
Donald Trump is not fit to be President of the United States. While I am not a fan of Hillary Clinton, I do feel she has the intelligence, experience and temperament to lead this country. What does Donald Trump have? Clearly, an inability to recognize and acknowledge the truth. (He brags about winning the first debate despite anyone watching could see and hear he did not! He claims he cannot release his tax returns due to an audit when he could and didn't because it showed that he didn't pay his share to support the same workers he claims he is the savior for!). This man says what he believes will get him elected and feels no sense of accountability or responsibility to anyone. Trump is for Trump! After this tape and previous sexist/disparaging comments about women, I don't know how any woman can vote for him. As for the religious right, I questioned their endorsement given his two divorces but now, if they stand by Trump now, they have sold out their faith for what? Finally, I used to respect Rudy Giuliani but no more and never again!!!
8
This "old white boys club" is what they really are talking about when they say "Make America Great Again." I can only hope that women, people of color and all other decent people understand this and act against it on November 8 in great numbers.
9
He's a pig. That few if any Republican leaders refuse to utterly repudiate this man not only makes them complicit, it makes them more culpable-except, of course, for Ryan, who had the "courage" to disinvite him to a social event I'm Wisonsin. That'll showem. Donald, you're grounded.
3
Great Article Ms Dominus! This is classic sexual predatory behavior. Using Power and control tactics to subjugate your prey. Trump is a sexual predator and gloats about his powers and 'conquests' . Call him out !
12
Seeing so many Republicans, including Evangelicals, continue support for a man whose excuses and justifications are ludicrous at best and makes me have to ask?
Do you have no wives or daughters, no sisters or mothers? Do you not see how a President Trump would de facto legitimize a behavior both reprehensible and threatening to your family? Don't kid yourself. This is personal, for everyone.
Time to stop the madness. Dump Trump.
Do you have no wives or daughters, no sisters or mothers? Do you not see how a President Trump would de facto legitimize a behavior both reprehensible and threatening to your family? Don't kid yourself. This is personal, for everyone.
Time to stop the madness. Dump Trump.
6
It would indeed be just if Mr. D. Trump were to bring this behavior down with him once and for all. That might even justify all of the pain and agony his candidacy has brought on us for the past months.
The Man is sick who gets us sicker, ready to gag and throw up. He sends down a shiver down my spine and I feel like maggots are crawling all over me. Ugh!!
2
Wonderful article, thank you. But please remember that one of the past presidents of the Good Ol Boys sleazy sexual predator club was indeed Bill Clinton. His behavior was litigated in the press, in the Congress, in the courts, and in the court of public opinion 20 years ago. The attempts of Trump and his supporters to bring it into the present in order to deflect from Trump is an epic fail. But there is not a millimeter of difference between these two men when it comes to misogyny.
Thanks Susan. You nailed it. If anyone has doubts about how dangerous a Trump presidency would be, watch the video, then watch it again. Trump's behavior is appalling, and Billy Bush's is just as bad. Ever wonder how jerks rise to power? Bush provides Exhibit A. Epitomizes the saying "Go along to get along".
3
The Republican party and its supporters now confirms once and for all that it is not 'pro-life' but anti-women.
15
From the Lewinsky affair, I thought we all were told by the Left that issues of sexual morality are irrelevant to serving as President.
1
What Trump describes doing is sexual assault. Sexual morality has nothing to do with it. It is a crime.
1
How about: 'vulgar, obscene, revealing, and character-defining'?
4
After the tape's release, Trump supporter Tony Perkins of the Family Research Council told BuzzFeed: “My personal support for Donald Trump has never been based upon shared values.”
They don't even try to pretend any more.
They don't even try to pretend any more.
7
"Hillary Clinton’s supporters are ready to overturn: the musty sleaziness that went out of style in the 1970s...(men) who have gotten further than they should have on connections and male privilege. The bus is the old boys’ club that women rarely get to see inside — but it may also turn out to be the wrecking ball that takes down the club for good."
Thankyou for this excellent article by Susan Dominus. As a physician who is Catholic, I would like to include religions that have done so much damage to social justice for women, by frustrating the plan of God from the beginning, by creating the male fantasy myth of woman coming from the rib of a man, when the first book of the Bible, Genesis 1:26,27, states that God created women and men at the same time and as equals in God's image. We all know that there would be no man or woman on earth unless they came from the body of a woman. It is time for men of religion to accept God's plan and to treat women as equals, as God created women to be, as stated in the Bible.
Sincerely, Dr Rosemary Eileen McHugh, MD, MBA, MSpir
Thankyou for this excellent article by Susan Dominus. As a physician who is Catholic, I would like to include religions that have done so much damage to social justice for women, by frustrating the plan of God from the beginning, by creating the male fantasy myth of woman coming from the rib of a man, when the first book of the Bible, Genesis 1:26,27, states that God created women and men at the same time and as equals in God's image. We all know that there would be no man or woman on earth unless they came from the body of a woman. It is time for men of religion to accept God's plan and to treat women as equals, as God created women to be, as stated in the Bible.
Sincerely, Dr Rosemary Eileen McHugh, MD, MBA, MSpir
4
The Republican reaction has been to spin this as cruder locker room talk. But what Trump is describing is sexual assault. Every woman knows the difference. Every woman has been put in the position where she has had to kiss or hug someone she'd rather not touch.
Every woman will have this in the back of her mind as she pulls the lever in the voting booth. Or when she decides not to go to the polls at all.
Every woman will have this in the back of her mind as she pulls the lever in the voting booth. Or when she decides not to go to the polls at all.
4
Boys and men know sexual assault too. Its traumatizing. I hope they recognize it and vote against this lout.
Is there any evidence that as President he would have the will or self-control to change in any way? The Secret Service would have to protect us as well as him.
3
How long, oh lord, how long? We may now have the answer. Trump embodies the death rattle of Western white male privilege. These guys have been coasting on their systemic advantage for decades at least, possibly centuries. Morally and intellectually bankrupt, they are dead and decayed. It will be such a relief when they finally fall down. But it's going to be ugly for a while until they do.
3
This piece zeros in on exactly what is so disgusting about the behavior of Trump and his compatriot. I wish I could say I've never heard talk like this before. Unfortunately I heard it very often when I was a younger woman starting in the work world. I've been in the position of the woman on the bus in front of whom this conversation is blithely taking place as well as the woman about whom they been cackling. That feeling that you are the object of sexist bonding between men is all too familiar. I expect that it will be exhaustingly recognizable to most women who for one reason or another have had to grin and bear it.
2
Well said. This episode is no doubt conjuring many ugly memories for women everywhere. Glad to see many Republicans condemning this and not making excuses. Yet many (Mike Lee, for one) are still using the "it's someone's daughter, someone's sister" angle.
More importantly, it is somebody. If her dad is dead, she's unmarried and an only child - she is still a valid and full human being.
Paul Ryan talked about women being "revered." That's nice - but we really aren't asking for pedestals.
We don't hate men. We do hate it when they grope us and talk
We still need to have these conversations in 2016. As Trump would tweet: Sad.
More importantly, it is somebody. If her dad is dead, she's unmarried and an only child - she is still a valid and full human being.
Paul Ryan talked about women being "revered." That's nice - but we really aren't asking for pedestals.
We don't hate men. We do hate it when they grope us and talk
We still need to have these conversations in 2016. As Trump would tweet: Sad.
7
Junikor high school locker rooms may never be the same again.
Those like Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell, who excuse Trump's behavior are the real problem. Whatever excuses you give for him is a form of acceptance, if not outright approval. To make light of it is no better.
Let us face the truth: The Republicans are backing a disaster and they don't know how to get out of it. All those vain hopes of behavioral changes and prudent guidance have not worked. The man listens to no one.
Whether Trump wins or loses the election, the Republican lose. The country will as well.
Let us face the truth: The Republicans are backing a disaster and they don't know how to get out of it. All those vain hopes of behavioral changes and prudent guidance have not worked. The man listens to no one.
Whether Trump wins or loses the election, the Republican lose. The country will as well.
5
In his purported apology, Mr. Trump states his recorded comments in the tape do not reflect who he is. Like so much else that comes from his lips, those words are lies. The comments reflect exactly who he is.
That this deplorable person remains at this moment the nominee of the Party of Lincoln says all too much about its intellectual and moral bankruptcy.
Some leaders of the Party have begun to call for Mr. Trump to stand down. History will judge justifiably harshly any and all prominent Republicans who do not both condemn and disown Mr. Trump.
That this deplorable person remains at this moment the nominee of the Party of Lincoln says all too much about its intellectual and moral bankruptcy.
Some leaders of the Party have begun to call for Mr. Trump to stand down. History will judge justifiably harshly any and all prominent Republicans who do not both condemn and disown Mr. Trump.
3
Thankfully most men don't think, or behave, like Trump. We see women as equals - as people, not as objects. I recently walked into a conversation at a bar where a man was talking about a woman there in a demeaning manner. Before I could say something, another man said "that's my little sister". It turned out not to be, but it made the jerk stop and apologize.
If we want to end the dehumanization of women, it is up to men to make it socially unacceptable. Shame on Bush for "playing along".
If we want to end the dehumanization of women, it is up to men to make it socially unacceptable. Shame on Bush for "playing along".
7
So does the company that makes Tic Tacs quickly change the name of this product or pay Donald Trump millions for the use of his brand to pitch them to young, sexually aggressive boys?
1
Aside from being in-the-gutter sleazy, it speaks of a maturity level marked in single digits...the job of the Presidency takes a person - man or woman - of two-digit maturity level...and it should be a person who has respect for all American citizens, not just the ones who share his or her genitalia, skin pigmentation, sexual orientation, ethnic ancestry, faith beliefs, disability status, etc.
This video, it should also be remembered, is only one in a very long string of examples, to which the entire world has been privy during the past year, demonstrating - quite honestly, it should be admitted - how Mr. Trump views nearly every human being on the planet other than himself. His disdain for his fellow human beings is frighteningly inclusive.
This video, it should also be remembered, is only one in a very long string of examples, to which the entire world has been privy during the past year, demonstrating - quite honestly, it should be admitted - how Mr. Trump views nearly every human being on the planet other than himself. His disdain for his fellow human beings is frighteningly inclusive.
6
Ms. Dominus, you've hit the nail on the head: the most disturbing thing about this video is, indeed, the fact "that the two men have erased [Zucker] as a person." I can think of no better exemplification of the mentality that produces rape culture.
But equally disturbing is Paul Ryan's comment that women should be "revered" - that's merely the flip side of rape culture, and is just as objectifying and dismissive of women as autonomous human beings. As a woman, I don't want a man's reverence; I just want respect and equal treatment.
A woman is not a compilation of body parts to be ogled and groped; nor is she a madonna to be worshipped and protected. We women are human beings, we make up more than 50% of the population, and we need to start voting our interests and throw these clueless sexists out of power.
But equally disturbing is Paul Ryan's comment that women should be "revered" - that's merely the flip side of rape culture, and is just as objectifying and dismissive of women as autonomous human beings. As a woman, I don't want a man's reverence; I just want respect and equal treatment.
A woman is not a compilation of body parts to be ogled and groped; nor is she a madonna to be worshipped and protected. We women are human beings, we make up more than 50% of the population, and we need to start voting our interests and throw these clueless sexists out of power.
15
Donald Trump is not the first man to ever talk about his sexual prowess and escapades in crude sleazy terms.
Donald Trump is not the first politician to be a moral degenerate serial adulterer misogynist pig.
Donald Trump is not the first human being to be immorally imperfect and flawed by the measure of their supernatural faith or their natural secular civil code.
Donald Trump has not been charged with nor convicted of any sexual assault nor rape against a minor or a major.
What do the likes of Sister Souljah, Monica Lewinsky, Gennifer Flowers, Paula Jones and Lani Gunier think about the political choice between Mr. and Mrs. William Jefferson Clinton and Mr. and Mrs. Donald John Trump?
Donald Trump is not the first politician to be a moral degenerate serial adulterer misogynist pig.
Donald Trump is not the first human being to be immorally imperfect and flawed by the measure of their supernatural faith or their natural secular civil code.
Donald Trump has not been charged with nor convicted of any sexual assault nor rape against a minor or a major.
What do the likes of Sister Souljah, Monica Lewinsky, Gennifer Flowers, Paula Jones and Lani Gunier think about the political choice between Mr. and Mrs. William Jefferson Clinton and Mr. and Mrs. Donald John Trump?
1
Trump has twice been accused of rape, under oath. Once by Ivana Trump.
2
So much for "law and order." This kind of sexual assault is a crime.
5
Everybody's all excited about Trump's locker room banter from 11 years ago (which simply sounds like a New Yorker) - but the media all ignored the fact that both Bill Clinton and John Kennedy (and other presidents) did plenty of messing around (translation - abusive exploitation of women) in office - all well documented.
So perhaps Trump is simply "acting presidential"?
Funny how the Democrats (and the media) completely ignore the behavior of their icons - and sanctimoniously wave their fingers at Trump.
And elsewhere in the NYT - David Letterman's self-righteous interview condemning Trump - completely forgetting his (Letterman's) casting couch scandal a few years back with a subordinate - his comments were pure hypocrisy.
It's turning out to be an interesting election year.
So perhaps Trump is simply "acting presidential"?
Funny how the Democrats (and the media) completely ignore the behavior of their icons - and sanctimoniously wave their fingers at Trump.
And elsewhere in the NYT - David Letterman's self-righteous interview condemning Trump - completely forgetting his (Letterman's) casting couch scandal a few years back with a subordinate - his comments were pure hypocrisy.
It's turning out to be an interesting election year.
Grabbing someone's genitals is not locker room talk. It is sexual assault.
Donald Trump is who he is, has been, and will continue to be, an adolescent narcissist in a seventy year old body. There has been plenty of evidence in real time that he sees women as objects to be used not human beings to be respected and treated as equals.
The fact that the GOP is beside itself with these new tapes reflects the fear that this is a bridge too far and he will not win the election. KA
The fact that the GOP is beside itself with these new tapes reflects the fear that this is a bridge too far and he will not win the election. KA
6
Trump says "These words don't reflect who I am".
His surrogates are already spinning this story. How are we to explain these words to our children? It is despicable. But somehow the deplorables don't care.
How long before Trump blames Hillary?
His surrogates are already spinning this story. How are we to explain these words to our children? It is despicable. But somehow the deplorables don't care.
How long before Trump blames Hillary?
9
My memories of adolescence and youth through the 50s and 60s are rather embarrassing. As a man of small stature, I wasn't able to compete with the macho posturing of my cohorts, but I do remember my observations: that among young men, the woman is not so much an object of desire as she is a token of his power. Even the sex, per se, is somewhat beside the point: young men are vying for positions in the status hierarchy and so they vaunt their prowess to each other. Some never progress beyond that stage --- which is why we call certain women "trophy wives" --- they are visible tokens of prestige (and why there is a lot of money to be made in the "escort" business --- the escort's role is to be seen with the powerful rich man, not unlike is Maserati, Bentley, or yacht). The Donald is the very archetype of this state of arrested development --- one in which women are not persons with strengths, weaknesses, needs, and feelings, but merely ornaments reflecting a man's status.
That Trump reveals this is just another facet of his remarkably repulsive character --- but its relevance in this context of a presidential race is as much for his overall immaturity as it is for his crude sexism. What does it say for those who support him in spite of all that he is?
That Trump reveals this is just another facet of his remarkably repulsive character --- but its relevance in this context of a presidential race is as much for his overall immaturity as it is for his crude sexism. What does it say for those who support him in spite of all that he is?
17
At first I wanted to write an in-depth comment on your article. A good article and much needed. In Europe it was midnight when the non-apology was made public and I woke up hoping someone at NYT would have exposed its fake character right away. And you did.
But I am too tired for an in-depth comment. I have written so many comments on so many NYT articles about Trump these past weeks, but the bottom line is: He can get away with what he does and with who he is, because all the -isms that describe him are still deeply embedded in our society. That goes true for Europe as well and I find it deeply deplorable. I hope that everybody who refuses to live in a world of Trumps will register and vote for Hillary Clinton.
But I am too tired for an in-depth comment. I have written so many comments on so many NYT articles about Trump these past weeks, but the bottom line is: He can get away with what he does and with who he is, because all the -isms that describe him are still deeply embedded in our society. That goes true for Europe as well and I find it deeply deplorable. I hope that everybody who refuses to live in a world of Trumps will register and vote for Hillary Clinton.
11
As a woman in a STEM field and holding leadership positions, I can say that this article gives a spot on characterization of the poison flowing through so many of the inter-personal events in our lives. (Shudder)
7
Best summary and analysis I've seen of Trump/Billy Bush leaked video.
3
I'm sick of people (most men) saying this was locker room talk or like a few buddies over late night poker. These were recordings made in a professional environment at a publicity event. There may have been no female colleagues in the van, but there were likely professional women involved in post production who had to listen to this sh*t while at work. The same thing came out last week about his behavior on the set of The Apprentice. This is what it means to create a HOSTILE SEXIST WORK ENVIRONMENT. And if Trump doesn't understand that, then he also doesn't understand the other challenges women face ... equal pay for equal work, child care, family leave, sexual violence on college campuses, etc. Trump didn't speak to how his behavior reflects on all these issues in his video "apology" because he doesn't get it, he doesn't care, and he doesn't know what it means to be a leader.
20
Very well stated Susan Dominus!
1
For Trump, it is 1995 all over again.
2
Trump never got the memo. In his latest response, he claimed that the voters should focus on the real issue before them. Mr. Trump, I believe the issue is whether you are fit to be the next president of the United States.
9
Again , and again, this loathsome needs to step down or be forced to do it. A Shameless Republican Party infested with Immoral politicians and voters . He is disgusting and everyone new that. Why the media did not do their job early? Nothing can be fixed, loathsome is loathsome. We the normal ones don't want this guy close to the White House. Now is the time for Paul Ryan, Mitchel McConnell, McCain... Cruz and the other idiots to let go and get out . Their vicious hypocrisy, and disgusting behavior supporting this imbecile is outrageous. Trump has no dignity, he's ignorant pig, a perfect Jerk dressing in a suit.
4
I have always said how ironic that in a historical election where a woman may break the glass ceiling, she is against a man who epitomizes sexism, in its most overt form. How befitting this is. I sincerely hope the end to this sad tale is where I want it to be.
We, women who are struggling daily with all that some men bring, from cat calls to violence, do not want nor accept your apology Mr. Trump. For one, you never would have acknowledged this had it not been discovered. Your behavior since as recently as last week, show the man you are. You did not apologize to Miss Universe. Spare us. But please, keep running for President. All men who condone you and support you must know where they too stand.
And to bring up Bill Clinton. Excuse me, I have no doubts Madame Secretary can manage a presidency and her husband. All the while, as you have had 3 marriages.
My fellow readers if you are not a feminist by now, or even support the continued struggle, you might want to rethink your stance.
We, women who are struggling daily with all that some men bring, from cat calls to violence, do not want nor accept your apology Mr. Trump. For one, you never would have acknowledged this had it not been discovered. Your behavior since as recently as last week, show the man you are. You did not apologize to Miss Universe. Spare us. But please, keep running for President. All men who condone you and support you must know where they too stand.
And to bring up Bill Clinton. Excuse me, I have no doubts Madame Secretary can manage a presidency and her husband. All the while, as you have had 3 marriages.
My fellow readers if you are not a feminist by now, or even support the continued struggle, you might want to rethink your stance.
7
A President must respect those he or she serves, or else there is no motivation to truly lead. These latest comments from Mr. Trump should achieve, finally, what most American want so badly: the end of his ugly and shameless campaign.
4
Like an overindulgent parent, Trump will be forgiven by his base. After all that was just a dumb actress he was objectifying, not a real American woman from the heartland.
They have forgiven and cheered every insult that has come out of his mouth but then are shocked when the rest of the country is repulsed by him. Just like the parents of a son who has committed rape. "My son is such a nice boy, he would never do something like that". Yet he did because as always, all is forgiven.
They have forgiven and cheered every insult that has come out of his mouth but then are shocked when the rest of the country is repulsed by him. Just like the parents of a son who has committed rape. "My son is such a nice boy, he would never do something like that". Yet he did because as always, all is forgiven.
3
If I had a pack of Tic Tacs and told you roughly 42% would cause you to demean and harass women and make it impossible for you, as President, to be taken even remotely seriously when meeting with female dignitaries and heads of state, or with female senators and governors, or with female debate moderator and Miss Universe winners, or anyone of any age with two X chromosomes. Would you take a handful?
That's our Donald Trump problem.
That's our Donald Trump problem.
3
The hallmark of Trump's behavior pattern is that he insists on commenting upon a woman's breast size and recommending that she 'put in a rack' almost on first meeting.
This is psychopathic one-dimensional man who is mystified and bored by anything else not about him.
The Republican outrage is just the 'backstabbers coming out of the woodwork' - he won their primaries, got 4,000,000 more votes, then took the first ballot. To Donald the moral outrage is just a hypocritical attack opportunistically being waged with the help of ''MSM'' that old Palin fall-back.
Zucker from her body language is completely repulsed by either "Bushie" or Trump. The fury that fuels women in Hollywood is that it has run on these vapors for years. The difference between seduction and rape, pursuit and predatory stalking and assault is a subject of art through the ages. Lots of movies have had it as a subject.
But, do Americans want this to be the prepossessing theme of its presidency? And should it be the justification for trashing law and the nomination process to replace Trump with a vaginal probing fruitcake who demands that fetuses be entitled by requirement to full burials?
The flip side of Trump's predation is at one with his opinion that "women should be punished" for abortions - especially if its his sperm - he is more similar to Pence than Pence can comprehend or admit to himself- because they both are completely concerned with the subjugation and objectification of women.
This is psychopathic one-dimensional man who is mystified and bored by anything else not about him.
The Republican outrage is just the 'backstabbers coming out of the woodwork' - he won their primaries, got 4,000,000 more votes, then took the first ballot. To Donald the moral outrage is just a hypocritical attack opportunistically being waged with the help of ''MSM'' that old Palin fall-back.
Zucker from her body language is completely repulsed by either "Bushie" or Trump. The fury that fuels women in Hollywood is that it has run on these vapors for years. The difference between seduction and rape, pursuit and predatory stalking and assault is a subject of art through the ages. Lots of movies have had it as a subject.
But, do Americans want this to be the prepossessing theme of its presidency? And should it be the justification for trashing law and the nomination process to replace Trump with a vaginal probing fruitcake who demands that fetuses be entitled by requirement to full burials?
The flip side of Trump's predation is at one with his opinion that "women should be punished" for abortions - especially if its his sperm - he is more similar to Pence than Pence can comprehend or admit to himself- because they both are completely concerned with the subjugation and objectification of women.
127
"Women should be punished for abortions." - Yes that notion of women as society's property for men to dictate to and own as vessels - steal from one another like shoplifters, trade like chattel, lies at the heart of the Republican ethos. Like his tape, they can run but can't hide away from this truth any longer. it's not just about Trump, though he thinks it is. It's been weighing on the bough like a heavy snow and the bough is breaking.
2
Republicans have repeatedly demonstrated that they're more concerned with protecting their daughters from private stalls in their high school bathroom accommodating gender changing individuals than enrolling their daughters in 'beauty pageants' where the likes of Donald Trump can 'inspect them in the locker room when they're naked.' - it's on the Howard Stern tapes, not making this up.
3
Having been stalked for three years by an unwanted suitor who threatened to kill me after he found out I had had an abortion, it wasn't even his, Pence is as vile to me as Trump. I would sooner burn in hell than spend a second in the presence of either of these bullies.
3
I still can't get over that he kisses her when she's pressured to give him a hug. In this context, after what he's just said, it's assault. And Bush facilitated it, to see if he would kiss her. Both of these men are toying with her like she's meat.
This is not locker room talk. He is not talking about the past, he talking about assault and rape. She is not a person, she is an "it." "It" has great legs. "She" needs to get out of the way so they can view "its" legs.
Notice that "I can do anything line" only happens after the handlers are off the bus.
This episode is infuriating to me on a deeply personal level. In my line of work as an engineer men often underestimate me. I have found repeatedly that the best way to get a man to level with me from the start (ie not give me "the secretary's answer") is to start with a deeply technical question. But at least I have that. I cannot imagine the type of life that a woman in this kind of role must be forced to play - knowing that her worth is based on her looks and playing toward the camera. You can't bone up and know you stuff when your worth is your appearance.
He got away with it too. Talking about sexual assault then giving a non-consensual kiss, because he knows she has to play along to keep her job. Disgusting.
This is not locker room talk. He is not talking about the past, he talking about assault and rape. She is not a person, she is an "it." "It" has great legs. "She" needs to get out of the way so they can view "its" legs.
Notice that "I can do anything line" only happens after the handlers are off the bus.
This episode is infuriating to me on a deeply personal level. In my line of work as an engineer men often underestimate me. I have found repeatedly that the best way to get a man to level with me from the start (ie not give me "the secretary's answer") is to start with a deeply technical question. But at least I have that. I cannot imagine the type of life that a woman in this kind of role must be forced to play - knowing that her worth is based on her looks and playing toward the camera. You can't bone up and know you stuff when your worth is your appearance.
He got away with it too. Talking about sexual assault then giving a non-consensual kiss, because he knows she has to play along to keep her job. Disgusting.
10
To get the complete effect, juxtapose Trump's non-apology with his advertisement for Trump Steaks (it's on youtube). Notice the similarities. No matter what the subject--even if its supposed to be an apology--Trump lapses into a sales pitch. It's as if he's been programmed.
4
Dominus has it right-- it goes beyond crudeness -- this a blatant power display, where attractive women are just sex objects and unattractive women are objects that get in the way of their view. It is beyond my understanding that women are willing to vote for him.
7
It's also important to note that Trump is trying to portray this video as an outdated form of himself. But if we are smart citizens who truly do scrutinize everything that is set in front of us, then maybe we will see this as part of the important conversation of this election process. Why? Not because it is outdated, but because this is a person with a consistent history of misogyny, conceitedness, and narcissism - both in private and in public. Seriously, this is the type of person we are considering for not just any office of servitude to the American people - it's the ultimate office. This isn't just a ten year old recording. This is a reminder that we are dealing with an elitist who believes he can do whatever he wants, whenever he wants, and without earning the right to it. In this day and age, with all that is going on about political correctiveness and the violent uproar of those in the position to abuse their power against the little man, our leader should know how to respect the everyman/everywoman. It is not outdated - it is so very relevant.
3
I fear that variations of the "Old Boys' Club" are present in how this story is being covered. We read reports about Trump's vulgar language with little emphasis of the sexual assaults he brags about. The "Old Boys' Club" media labels Trump's assaultive behavior as "groping." Again, it is sexual assault. We hear the "Old Boys' Club" politicians talking about how no man should "talk" about women the way Trump did, but I have yet to see one who is calling Trump out on his bragging about sexual assault.
2
The silver lining is that Christian evangelicals who vote Republican will not be able to in their good conscious vote for this rancid turd. Let's remember too that Trump is the father of a 10-or-11-year-old boy, who will assuredly learn of this video soon enough if he has not already.
How can the Trump family women, how can the women on the Fox network, brush this off and claim that the Donald is a friend to women? As I watch more and more Republicans flee for the exits and try to protect their other candidates, I am confident that this will be the watershed moment that permanently dumps Trump on the trash heap.
How can the Trump family women, how can the women on the Fox network, brush this off and claim that the Donald is a friend to women? As I watch more and more Republicans flee for the exits and try to protect their other candidates, I am confident that this will be the watershed moment that permanently dumps Trump on the trash heap.
3
I have a photo of my daughter, 22, on a trip to New York City. At the Trump Tower, at a book signing, she ran into the current Republican Presidential candidate.
My daughter reported that Donald Trump was gracious, listening carefully and aprrovingly of her business career plans.
There was no groping, no leering, and no suggestive language, which will disappoint some readers.
My daughter reported that Donald Trump was gracious, listening carefully and aprrovingly of her business career plans.
There was no groping, no leering, and no suggestive language, which will disappoint some readers.
1
Predators pick their moments. A public book signing is not one. What did you expect?
As a woman without a celebrity name, I'm hoping Zucker and/or her peers will strike back on behalf of other women - and men- who share a deep concern that this tsunami of filth, that is Trump, has a chance of becoming our next president.
2
The headlines should actually read 'Trump admits to sexual assault of women'. I really question the US media at times like this.
3
How can an individual who speaks in such predatory and demeaning ways about women and who acts lasciviously as reported by so many women be the commander in chief of our armed forces. The commander tasked to lead and support standards of conduct, including standards relating to sexual harassment and sexual assault.
7
When I saw this story for the first time last night I was repulsed. Talk to any woman that you know and I am sure she will be able to recall at least one time in her life where she was made to feel uncomfortable by some predatory male. I felt like I was having a PTSD episode watching the story. This is the man that the Republicans have chosen for President. The fact this tape is 11 years old does not matter. The man was 59 or 60 years old at that time, not a child. His disgusting statement that was supposed to pass as an apology was only a further insult to all women. For the sake of this country the Republican party must make this man step down. We as citizens should demand it. We as women should demand it.
6
Brilliant. One of the best pieces of writing on "objectification" or "reification" I have read. Dominos plainly describes how a woman can be made into a thing. And she also describes the potential injury it causes -- the way Zucker is made to swallow her pride and play along, the way she must pretend to be attracted to these two, vulgar men in order not to seem prudish or stuck up, or simply a drag. (She didn't need to hear their vulgarities on the bus -- their swagger when they got off was enough.) And we realize how this must happen every day and how much hurt and and anger is must generate.
4
By far the best analysis I have read.
The moral of this incident is not that lewd language was used; the language is just the vehicle for conveying the cruel reality that this woman, and all women, are simply objects, and are in fact excluded from what is really going on, even when, like Ms. Zucker, they think they are in on the joke. They are not; in fact, they are the joke.
The moral of this incident is not that lewd language was used; the language is just the vehicle for conveying the cruel reality that this woman, and all women, are simply objects, and are in fact excluded from what is really going on, even when, like Ms. Zucker, they think they are in on the joke. They are not; in fact, they are the joke.
2
I have read several comments that this is how "men" talk when their wives, mothers, or sisters are not around. Nothing is further from the truth. The ones who speak and act like this are e ones responsible for the sexual harassment and sexual assault problems that are in the news today. We need to take a stand against this type of talk and action. This goes well beyond mere banter.
3
Well, Ms. Dominus, you certainly make Trump and "the Old Boys' Club" an accurate fit in the Republican fraternal fun-times. You certainly make such behavior seem acceptable to society, as does Trump and Co. Thanks...
This revolting man-child has no business being anywhere near the White House. That he cannot or will not control his basest urges and most childish emotions is disqualifying enough; but, taken with the vast evidence of his bigotry, misogyny, racism and fundamental dishonesty it is simply unfathomable that this disgusting human being has become the face of one of the major political parties of the United States of America. We have gone off the rails! And those who have twisted our electoral system to allow such a train wreck to happen seem utterly clueless to their fundamental complicity. Sicko Trump needs intense psychological therapy; and the hypocritical Republican Party needs to fall to its knees in repentence of their responsibility for bringing such a monster to the brink of the Oval Office.
1
Trump epitomizes the joke "Hollywood is high school with money." But he is not the insecure adolescent - pimples and all - who struggles desperately to mask his youth with bluster. He's the cliched rich kid who's never been disciplined. By adulthood, most normal people can detect maladjustment, immaturity and misogyny. Instinct alerts us that this person was deprived of peer acceptance, respect, and - most importanly - psychiatric treatment.
1
In the current state of the political race to the bottom , which both sides seem to be tied in, I don't see how our system ever recovers. political correctness would state that every man that has ever made comments whether lewd or dangerous should be disqualified from public office or a leadership role. Our political system does not exist in a vacuum and I cannot fathom that the countries we are competing against and organizations that we are fighting against (ISIS) will applaud our criticism of a private citizens sexist comments.
In a real world there needs to be real conversations on whether we are electing a pope or a leader that will stand up and react to the times we live in. Boy Scout and Girl Scout leaders we are not electing. Please explain to the young citizens of our country that maybe real life is as honest and dangerous as the world it exists in. Laws will be broken, feelings will be hurt. Women will be mistreated but atleast in this country they won't be stoned, prevented from driving, treated like second class citizens or sold like cattle.
The comments are indefensible and repugnant but they are not the end of our way of life or the beginning of our downfall. That moment will be reserved for when our citizens believe every little thing that the media decided we should be livid about. I say we actually think for ourselves and tune out the noise. Listen carefully because we are about to change the status quo.
In a real world there needs to be real conversations on whether we are electing a pope or a leader that will stand up and react to the times we live in. Boy Scout and Girl Scout leaders we are not electing. Please explain to the young citizens of our country that maybe real life is as honest and dangerous as the world it exists in. Laws will be broken, feelings will be hurt. Women will be mistreated but atleast in this country they won't be stoned, prevented from driving, treated like second class citizens or sold like cattle.
The comments are indefensible and repugnant but they are not the end of our way of life or the beginning of our downfall. That moment will be reserved for when our citizens believe every little thing that the media decided we should be livid about. I say we actually think for ourselves and tune out the noise. Listen carefully because we are about to change the status quo.
Trump's crude and vulgar remarks were so over the top I can't help but suspect he was ineptly playing the role of the swaggering sexual conquistador in order to impress Billy Bush. This could be why he dismisses this behavior as "entertainment" and claims he doesn't have to try to curb this conduct because it's easy to stop. Indeed, he drops one persona and adopts a different one when his audience changes. This does not excuse his egregious behavior or mitigate its horror. Even if he is playing a role, he reveals his misogyny and a warped view of sex as the equivalent of assault: as something you do to a woman without her consent. The terms he uses to talk about sex are ones of aggression and even violence: He'd like to "hit" that; he "moved heavily;" he "moved like a bitch" etc. My point is that there is no real Donald Trump. He is a hollow man who dons and discards various personas as circumstances call for. And a person who has no real self is often a bad judge of the real selves of others and is likely to adopt an obnoxious persona while thinking it's a winner, and to overdo the dialogue and posturing that go along with the part.
1
There has been a lot of talk that voters want this to be a "change election." I vote that we make that change a complete rejection of the old boys club of sexism and bigotry that the Trump campaign epitomizes.
3
For quite some time, we’ve known that Donald Trump is a vile, misogynistic creature with little capacity for self-reflection or self-restraint. He is a man who objectifies women, whether as the owner of a beauty pageant or evaluating the datability of Ivanka, his own daughter. This latest evidence of his attitudes towards women is notable if only because he can’t pivot to blaming Rosie O’Donnell (although he has tried flinging muck at Secretary Clinton and her husband).
What I find equally telling about the video is the the behavior of Billy Bush. Drawn into Donnie’s orbit, Billy became a toadying sycophant of the first order, eager to please and appease. Fast forward a decade later, and this type of craven behavior has become a hallmark of Donnie’s candidacy. Donnie’s ego requires constant validation, whether from the crowds at his rallies, the unquestioning loyalty of his children, or the fealty of Christie, Giuliani, Gingrich, Ryan and even Ted Cruz.
Donnie’s comments on that bus remind us that he is an unevolved caveman who has no business in the Oval Office. Instead, on November 8, he should be sent packing back to his man cave -- and take his bros with him.
What I find equally telling about the video is the the behavior of Billy Bush. Drawn into Donnie’s orbit, Billy became a toadying sycophant of the first order, eager to please and appease. Fast forward a decade later, and this type of craven behavior has become a hallmark of Donnie’s candidacy. Donnie’s ego requires constant validation, whether from the crowds at his rallies, the unquestioning loyalty of his children, or the fealty of Christie, Giuliani, Gingrich, Ryan and even Ted Cruz.
Donnie’s comments on that bus remind us that he is an unevolved caveman who has no business in the Oval Office. Instead, on November 8, he should be sent packing back to his man cave -- and take his bros with him.
6
As repugnant a human being as Donald Trump is, this will not be the end of the Old Boys Club. There are just far too many men who think it's OK to objectify women as nothing but an avenue to get their rocks off. Frat culture. Sports culture. Business. Hollywood, etc. This viewpoint did not end with the Mad Men era, let alone the Flower Power 60s. Clearly, there is a segment of men who can't stand the fact that a woman should be viewed upon as an equal, not subordinate. And, it won't go away just because a woman may be sitting in the White House as president come January. Having a black president didn't reduce incidents of racism. Just the opposite, which the Republican Party has exacerbated. The same will be true in January if Hillary is elected. Frankly, I wonder how much this comes down to how we are raising our children as a country, male or female. It's just plain sad all around how our preference seems to not be the best we can be as humans.
2
The fact that Republicans still stand behind this man makes them deplorable.
4
We elected Bill Clinton because of his leadership gifts and expected, as President, he would also act as a role model (c.f. President Obama). He didn't and suffered disgrace and diminished accomplishments. Donald Trump has at most shown leadership tchotchkes and now an admitted lack of decency. This time the disgrace will be on us, the electorate, if we elect him.
3
However as President Clinton was brilliant, in charge of an era of prosperity before and after Repub disasters. DT has been a failure at business, a liar, a cheat, no redeeming qualities a leader needs.
The irony is that Trump's crude and downright repulsive behavior has taken the focus off Hillary and her shortcomings. This election is being fought on who has a worse personality. While that's not difficult to answer, but that kind of strategy on either side has created a strong divide between the voters. They now are getting deeper into the muck instead of asking the right questions. Perhaps the worst election campaign I have witnessed in recent times.
1
What's even more lewd, distressing, and unacceptable is that Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell still endorse this cretin; I really hope voters find this to be a most unforgivable offense.
4
Trump has broken the sacred rules of the Republican Old Boys club by exposing
their real dirt. He has ripped off the masks of decorum and exposed the racist,
sexist, elitist patriarchy for what they really are. He has shown them to be corporate tools, tax dodgers, and self servers. They used to be able to keep it
hidden, but Trump didn't know it was supposed to be a secret. The Republicans who put Party above Principle should be ashamed... they are his real enablers.
their real dirt. He has ripped off the masks of decorum and exposed the racist,
sexist, elitist patriarchy for what they really are. He has shown them to be corporate tools, tax dodgers, and self servers. They used to be able to keep it
hidden, but Trump didn't know it was supposed to be a secret. The Republicans who put Party above Principle should be ashamed... they are his real enablers.
5
As a side point in observing the personality of Trump, notice that he walks up to the door of the bus (from the inside) and knocks. Someone then tells him how to open the door himself which he executes flawlessly. Which of these two will be emphasized by the rabid liberal press?
To hear Trump so nonchalantly brag about sexual assault leads to me to wonder if some Trump victims will come forward and the Donald eventually finds himself in the same scenario as Bill Cosby? Sexual assault---touching without permission---is sexual assault whether it was accomplished using drugs like Cosby or simply force and surprise like Trump.
Trump seems to careen between imitations of Italian strongmen Silvio Berlusconi and Benito Mussolini. Like Berlusconi Trump is a greedy businessman who uses his position force himself on women while like Mussolini Trump is a hateful demagogue who wishes to be a dictator.
Trump seems to careen between imitations of Italian strongmen Silvio Berlusconi and Benito Mussolini. Like Berlusconi Trump is a greedy businessman who uses his position force himself on women while like Mussolini Trump is a hateful demagogue who wishes to be a dictator.
3
You have greater faith in the electorate than I. The return to more sexist times is precisely what many Trump voters hear, and desire, when they fervently rally behind a man who will make America great, *again.* Trump's being attacked for these comments may indeed further galvanize some of his base, who seek a return to such times and will recast deserved criticism into PC "attacks." Let us hope there are enough sensitive voters to overcome them, but I am sadly less sure of it now.
1
It's sort of odd that's there's no opposite-gender word for 'misogyny.' Why don't we have a way of labeling my feeling right now that I hate men? Not kind people like my husband or son or father or brother, but disgusting, sickening men like Donald Trump. We women deserve a word to succinctly label this hatred of his ilk. There's enough of them out there to deserve a label, but I suppose now we'll just be able to say to our girlfriends, "Him? No way... he's such a Trump." And our disgust will be understood. Nice brand, Donald.
6
I have no illusions that many men engage in this objectification of women and thus I am neither surprised or shocked at Trump's words. The point is, we have a choice this election - we don't have to settle for more of the same sexist attitudes. We as a society can send a clear message of repudiation of the old boys' club with our votes.
As to Trump's characterization of the issue as a "distraction", no, Mr. Trump. Groping women is just as important an issue to me as the economy, jobs, and foreign policy. And just because Bill Clinton probably said or did things as bad doesn't make it okay and doesn't make either of you any better than the pervert on the subway.
As to Trump's characterization of the issue as a "distraction", no, Mr. Trump. Groping women is just as important an issue to me as the economy, jobs, and foreign policy. And just because Bill Clinton probably said or did things as bad doesn't make it okay and doesn't make either of you any better than the pervert on the subway.
3
"The two men have erased her as a person" is exactly right. The headlines decrying what Trump said about "women" are in accurate. Never once, according to the transcript, did he say the words "women" or "woman." He only said "they." Women are a collective, not individuals, they are impersonal pronouns. not people. And even the Republican men who are expressing disgust at Trump's words reveal that women are not fully, or merely "people" to them. Ryan wants women to be "revered." Most women would prefer respected," "acknowledged," "heard." Mike Lee said it occurred to him that the women discussed in the video are "somebody's mother, daughter, wife...." Somebody male, presumably. Because that is what gives them value?
4
The power differential this article points out is aptly reflected in the familiar saying, "Men are afraid women will mock them. Women are afraid men will kill them" (or assault them).
1
Thank you Susan for this most insightful examination of whats been going on. I was hoping to see this clarity, and you delivered. Excellent, best read of the morning. Who could've believed it would have gotten to this a year ago, but Trump has been a known quantity long before then. No surprise in him really. Anyone supporting him has been doing so with a wink and turning the other way, opting for male power and wealth at the top. But not the savior he pretends to be, and it shows ever more brightly with each passing day. I look forward to more of you insight going forward!
Starting in the 60s, with the Civil Rights Act (thank you LBJ), and then the Supreme Court decision Griswold v. CT ( which allowed access to birth control) and in 1973 the landmark decision Roe v. Wade, the ship of old white guy patriarchy (even god is a white male ...) has been slowly, albeit sometimes imperceptibly, taking on water. What better captain to stand topside as it finally sinks than Trump, a feckless caricature of the imbalanced, self-serving, fundamentally unfair hegemony that has heretofore defined us as a nation.
4
"Lewd" isn't a word Trump's support base uses much, unless it's in the context of friend's relative or a lesser celebrity being arrested and charged with such conduct in public. Words such as "nasty" and "dirty", or "foul-mouthed" are much more relatable and defining. "Creepy", "dirty old man", and "pervert" also come to mind.
Maybe one of the reasons Trump supporters don't react the same to his "crazy talk" as non-Trump supporters, is that the media and intelligentsia communicate in big and fancy words...words his homogeneous base can't relate to. Trump uses the vernacular of the "little people" effectively and the media might connect better to his base by doing the same.
Maybe one of the reasons Trump supporters don't react the same to his "crazy talk" as non-Trump supporters, is that the media and intelligentsia communicate in big and fancy words...words his homogeneous base can't relate to. Trump uses the vernacular of the "little people" effectively and the media might connect better to his base by doing the same.
1
"The bus is the old boys’ club that women rarely get to see inside"
Women - more than half earth inhabitants rarely get a glimpse of what's prevalent on the minds of other half?! As a man, all I can say is "that's it!". If you don't grow up talking like this you're basically gay and will be mocked and bullied for it, as long as you share any social environment. It reaches peak level on high-school, endures through college and finally starts slowing down with your professional life but never goes entirely away.
So women, next time you contemplate your men remember this is the prevalent lingo, heartfelt or involuntarily - whether or not reflects actual low character like it sure does with the Donald. I guess fewer like me never embraced it and had a rougher upbringing - sometimes getting adversity even from women.
Women - more than half earth inhabitants rarely get a glimpse of what's prevalent on the minds of other half?! As a man, all I can say is "that's it!". If you don't grow up talking like this you're basically gay and will be mocked and bullied for it, as long as you share any social environment. It reaches peak level on high-school, endures through college and finally starts slowing down with your professional life but never goes entirely away.
So women, next time you contemplate your men remember this is the prevalent lingo, heartfelt or involuntarily - whether or not reflects actual low character like it sure does with the Donald. I guess fewer like me never embraced it and had a rougher upbringing - sometimes getting adversity even from women.
And all the time, I thought he was a class act and a great businessman. A real GOP leader...
It's not lewd, rapey is a better adjective.
Speaking as a man who is specifically nothing like creepy clowns on the bus, I am delighted at the light being shown on this dark and disturbing side of life. Men who disavow this demeaning behavior must take a stand and a vote against it.
And to women whose male significant-others might not be brave enough to take the stand and vote I've suggested, tell them they're cut off indefinitely. I'll bet they'll understand what you mean.
I'm not so naive as to think an event even as significant as this will end sexism as it's practiced in our country but I am happy at this probably unintended benefit brought to us by Hillary's candidacy. I look forward to even more after she's elected.
And to women whose male significant-others might not be brave enough to take the stand and vote I've suggested, tell them they're cut off indefinitely. I'll bet they'll understand what you mean.
I'm not so naive as to think an event even as significant as this will end sexism as it's practiced in our country but I am happy at this probably unintended benefit brought to us by Hillary's candidacy. I look forward to even more after she's elected.
6
What is not mentioned here is Trump's behavior on the Apprentice. It is reported that he insulted women on the show, asked male contestants what they thought of the women, etc. this was recorded but not broadcast. But this video exists and I want to see it.
59
I totally agree that the second most disturbing part of the video (after the grabbing of women's private parts) was mr bush insisting Ms Zucker hug them. The two of them had already conspired on sleaze about her "hotness" and the opportunity it presented for the sleazy Trump. Ms Zucker professionally shook their hands. When asked to give them a hug she looked uncomfortable and awkward - but as so many millions of women before her have done - she politely complies - probably on an effort not to make a scene or start things off on the wrong foot. It was a textbook moment of how women get trapped and preyed upon by men in positions of power. Incredibly disturbing. Poor ms Zucker.
207
Cue the chorus of: "Well, why did she hug him if she didn't want to?" Most women understand this all too well--sometimes, the cost of saying no is worse than the degradation of saying yes. Women do this kind of math ALL the time.
1
Just like Nate Parker "invited" his friend to rape an unconscious woman. Men are often too happy to hook their buddies up with access to womens' bodies. It's rape culture.
1
I just don't know what else can be said about this very disturbed, sex obsessed, self aggrandizing, narcissistic, white collar liar and cheater. There are no words good enough to describe behavior that is so far over the top, it can hardly be grasped. What will his young son think about his father's behavior, or his mother's behavior? My guess is that he already knows, and has been a witness from the beginning. He thinks all families operated this way. Money can't buy ethics, morality, fidelity, honesty, generosity, or kindness, none of which are qualities associated with this dreadful person, or any of his awful family.
84
Ms. Dominus, I'm not sure this T-rex is dead, yet. At the bottom of this behavior are the twin ideas of entitlement and ownership. The translation of the dialogue from "the boys in the back of the (Trump) bus" is "we can do whatever we want."
"We can do whatever we want" is the subtle baseline of Donald Trump's candidacy. His (mostly) male supporters get it: "we want our own back, when we were the unquestioned alpha wolves and everybody beneath us knew it and accepted it." The Trump Greek chorus of "build that wall!" or "lock her up!" is no different, really, from Trump's "the Second Amendment people will take care of it." This mind-set can be clearly seen elsewhere in America: white cops shooting black men for minor or non-existent offenses, such as exhaling after inhaling. Or having a tail-light out.
This white male behavior, so deeply embedded in American macho culture, drives the fright on the right from their absurd fetish with ID voting laws; their anger over Planned Parenthood is really a subtle attack on Roe v. Wade; to Second Amendment rights and all its ugly train: open carry anywhere, anytime.
This is male-dominated and it encompasses a plantation-type attitude of "keep the women barefoot and pregnant." Why, after all, are old white men so angry about a woman's "rights?" They're not supposed to have any; they exist to simply be mindless receptacles of their lust.
This deplorable boys' club in the tree house will always be open.
Women are the dues they pay.
"We can do whatever we want" is the subtle baseline of Donald Trump's candidacy. His (mostly) male supporters get it: "we want our own back, when we were the unquestioned alpha wolves and everybody beneath us knew it and accepted it." The Trump Greek chorus of "build that wall!" or "lock her up!" is no different, really, from Trump's "the Second Amendment people will take care of it." This mind-set can be clearly seen elsewhere in America: white cops shooting black men for minor or non-existent offenses, such as exhaling after inhaling. Or having a tail-light out.
This white male behavior, so deeply embedded in American macho culture, drives the fright on the right from their absurd fetish with ID voting laws; their anger over Planned Parenthood is really a subtle attack on Roe v. Wade; to Second Amendment rights and all its ugly train: open carry anywhere, anytime.
This is male-dominated and it encompasses a plantation-type attitude of "keep the women barefoot and pregnant." Why, after all, are old white men so angry about a woman's "rights?" They're not supposed to have any; they exist to simply be mindless receptacles of their lust.
This deplorable boys' club in the tree house will always be open.
Women are the dues they pay.
120
soxared--Other "rich" people don't want you to know that they feel just as entitled, arrogant, and irresponsible as Donald Trump. I'm afraid they do.
1
Spot on! You summed up Trump voters and the absurd GOP that tolerates and enables them.
1
"Taking down the old boys' club for good" may be wishful thinking, but it certainly killed off this idiotic candidacy. Now that it's dead, it should shut up and lie down. Having it stagger about like a zombie for the next month will be rather creepy.
68
Trump seems to want to excuse this, that it was 11 years ago, and he's a different man now. No he's not. He was 59 years old when this happened. To even describe him as a man is an insult to all men out there.
Why 40% of Americans still want to vote for him is beyond my comprehension.
Why 40% of Americans still want to vote for him is beyond my comprehension.
142
I wonder if Trump's "white male" support is as deep as pollsters imply. Are they counting white college-educated who always vote but never answer cell phone calls from unknown callers?
Come on guys! Let's send Trump to the dumpster of history!
Come on guys! Let's send Trump to the dumpster of history!
1
Maybe it's time for NBC to find a different reporter.
10
But that may get them in trouble with that powerful rich Bush family. Why do you think he has the job in the first place?
Good grief. I've been a staunch feminist for decades but what is left out of all this hyperactive dismay over the Trump/Bush exchange (or is it actually glee?) is its absolute normalcy. This is how many men talk, in fraternities, locker rooms, what you might call safe spaces for male braggadocio and misogyny. It's nothing new, nothing shocking. Do I approve? Of course not. The dialogue is pathetic and revolting. Yet entirely par for the course. If this kind of talk were disqualifying for high positions, an untold number of executives, politicians, even academics would have to step down.
18
"If this kind of talk were disqualifying for high positions, an untold number of executives, politicians, even academics would have to step down."
As well they should.
As well they should.
71
Susan Manning, I'm truly grieved that your experience of the world has led you to believe that the atrocious display put on by Trump and Bush towards women is "normal" for men. It's not. It is, nonetheless, still way too common. The outrage is appropriate, as is seeing the dehumanizing and predatory attitudes Trump so crudely expressed as disqualifying for the presidency.
1
If his talk was about race or ethnicity or religion instead of sex, you might not be so complacent about it. Bigotry is bigotry. It's all ugly, and no candidate for public office should participate in it.
1
"The bus is the old boys’ club that women rarely get to see inside — but it may also turn out to be the wrecking ball that takes down the club for good."
Don't count on it. Sexism, like racism, is alive and well today and will continue to be so. Just read the comments on the other NYT Trump article this morning - there are still men and women who condone and justify this kind of behavior.
Don't count on it. Sexism, like racism, is alive and well today and will continue to be so. Just read the comments on the other NYT Trump article this morning - there are still men and women who condone and justify this kind of behavior.
11
"Bush and Trump on that bus are, in so many ways, the apotheosis of what so many of Hillary Clinton’s supporters are ready to overturn: the musty sleaziness that went out of style in the 1970s; the old bosses who want their secretaries pretty; the cigar-chomping power brokers who think sexual harassment is the woman’s problem; the drooling dimwits who have gotten further than they should have on connections and male privilege."
Two words: Bill Clinton.
Two words: Bill Clinton.
4
Not running
1
Two words: False equivalency.
The women Bill had sexual encounters with were not coerced.
The women Bill had sexual encounters with were not coerced.
Two more words: Rudy Giuliani
Oh, wait! Two more: Newt Gingrich
And two more: Roger Ailes
All three close advisers to (and yet two more words!): Donald Trump, who is running for president.
Bill Clinton is not.
Oh, wait! Two more: Newt Gingrich
And two more: Roger Ailes
All three close advisers to (and yet two more words!): Donald Trump, who is running for president.
Bill Clinton is not.
1
Brilliant writing! Thank you for so clearly dissecting the layers of misogyny and sexism in this despicable incident.
16
Perhaps just as powerful is the pained way that Trump reads the apology off a TelePrompTer; insolent like a child being forced to apologize but with zero remorse or understanding.
The selfishness is palpable.
The selfishness is palpable.
52
"Character is Destiny" - - Heraclitus
26
Remember when Trump said that he could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody and it wouldn't make any difference to his followers? Well now we'll find out if he was right or not.
34
If not now- when is it curtains for the Repuglican standard bearer Donald Trump? Actually . the word "standard " is not quite right to use together with the words "Donald Trump".
Release America from the embarrassment of the 2016 elections. Even a not perfect Hillary Clinton is miles better presidential materil. She has experience and class. And Bill Clinton is NOT running for President- she is.
Release America from the embarrassment of the 2016 elections. Even a not perfect Hillary Clinton is miles better presidential materil. She has experience and class. And Bill Clinton is NOT running for President- she is.
21
Bill Clinton left "W" a country at peace, with a surplus in the Treasury. "W" promptly took the country to a war for oil in the Middle East, the result of which was to empty the Treasury, borrow a few trillion dollars from China, and to exit office leaving President Obama an empty Treasury and a Status of Forces Agreement which allowed Iraq's corrupt unstable government to request our troops to defend it. I will be happy to have both Clintons in the White House, following a decent President Obama. The thought of the Trump family in the White House is too dark to even consider. My favorite pictures of the Trump family are: two sons standing over a dead elephant in Africa, after being taken to the border of a game preserve; and, Trump holding his daughter's hips, not the usual father daughter pose.
2
A whole lot of men are pigs, that's for sure. But women can talk about men's body parts, too, so there's that.
This whole thing is a distraction from the real issue of this campaign: whether Hillary or Donald is more qualified to be President of the United States. From Donald's statements on so many issues, it is clear that he does not even know what the President does and what Congress does. He does not understand what excessive tariffs would do the the US economy and then the world economy. He doesn't even have a clue as to how big his "wall" would actually have to be.
His voters want him to "change" Washington, but they do not have a clear vision of just how disastrous that change would be.
This whole thing is a distraction from the real issue of this campaign: whether Hillary or Donald is more qualified to be President of the United States. From Donald's statements on so many issues, it is clear that he does not even know what the President does and what Congress does. He does not understand what excessive tariffs would do the the US economy and then the world economy. He doesn't even have a clue as to how big his "wall" would actually have to be.
His voters want him to "change" Washington, but they do not have a clear vision of just how disastrous that change would be.
39
Unfortunately this type of behavior did not go out of style in the 70's. It's alive and well in club houses and strip clubs across the country. Women and men need to finally take action and speak up to clarify that predator behavior is not "just the way boys are" We need to teach boys and obviously men that women are not their pawns or prey.
30
In the recording/video, the aspects that are truly disturbing are Trump's casual comments about being unable to stop from forcing himself on women, and women "letting" him do whatever he wants. The vulgarities alone, especially the most obviously offensive, are hyperbolically, almost sarcastically, extreme. They're actually said in a manner that mocks cliche locker room talk. And this makes Trump's bragging about his ability to get away with sexual assault even more disturbing, because his purposefully exaggerated version of locker room talk masks the content of what he's actually saying.
Any power that the two men/actors have over the woman/actress who arrives to escort them doesn't come from her being unaware of how they were just discussing her. She clearly knows she's dealing with fools from the get-go, is aware they're objectifying her the second they talk, and humors them the way one would children. The power dynamic comes from her being in a position in which she feels the need to humor children masquerading as adults. And, as a man who's been in the reverse position -- i.e., having to humor children-masquerading-as-adults, only with the sexes reversed -- and as a man who's been in that position on more than one occasion, I'm not convinced this is a power dynamic unique to one's sex.
Any power that the two men/actors have over the woman/actress who arrives to escort them doesn't come from her being unaware of how they were just discussing her. She clearly knows she's dealing with fools from the get-go, is aware they're objectifying her the second they talk, and humors them the way one would children. The power dynamic comes from her being in a position in which she feels the need to humor children masquerading as adults. And, as a man who's been in the reverse position -- i.e., having to humor children-masquerading-as-adults, only with the sexes reversed -- and as a man who's been in that position on more than one occasion, I'm not convinced this is a power dynamic unique to one's sex.
9
Excellent points. This sort of bravado can also be used to keep other men in line.
I'm a man. Like my father before me and my son after me, and like all the men I spend my time with, I treat the women I encounter as fellow human beings, not toys. Whether in the company of women or with other men, I would never speak of women as Trump does in this tape, and I save my physical affection exclusively for my wife.
That's why I find this polemic so deeply offensive. Substitute race for sex and you will get it immediately. Trump is a creep because he's a creep, not because he's a man. Like Trump, who sees Mexicans as criminals and Muslims as terrorists, you point to men as sexist harassers. And it's not enough to say, like Trump, that there are some good ones.
Condemn Trump, and I'll join you, but stop the misanthropy, please.
That's why I find this polemic so deeply offensive. Substitute race for sex and you will get it immediately. Trump is a creep because he's a creep, not because he's a man. Like Trump, who sees Mexicans as criminals and Muslims as terrorists, you point to men as sexist harassers. And it's not enough to say, like Trump, that there are some good ones.
Condemn Trump, and I'll join you, but stop the misanthropy, please.
67
The columnist called out those who think objectifying women is harmless, not men in general. Please don't take offense to words that are not aimed at gentlemen such as yourself.
Charlie B: right on! Trump and Bush are not the norm and Trump's offensive attempt to normalize his deplorable attitudes and actions as "locker room" talk is both inhumane and despicable.
Thank you Charlie for pointing this out. Trump has been playing on this "in group" and "out group" bias for the campaign. When he finally got around to insulting white women, Republicans who thought they were in the "in group" took notice. Now they're going on and on about their wives and daughters. They act like women are a different species. For goodness sake, we're humans too. Just like the other humans he has been insulting all along. Truth is, he's been insulting and demeaning and cheating people/humans/men/women/hispanics/African Americans his entire life. He is predatory.
1
It's almost like males can be crude and immature when talking about women when they think no one's looking. Who'd have thought?
Sarcasm aside and as a young man who's still around a lot of behavior similar (or probably even more "lewd") to what Trump has done in the recording, I can tell you that it's all about puffing yourself up in front of your peers and trying to come off as cool and dominant.
Unless you're dealing with a true psychopath or misanthrope, none of it is meant to genuinely demean or dehumanize the woman on the receiving end of those remarks.
That Donald met Zucker with "the courtesy of a Boy Scout" makes it pretty clear to me that he and Billy were just fooling around and doing what immature men have been doing for as long as anyone (perhaps particularly women since they have to deal with it) can remember.
Sarcasm aside and as a young man who's still around a lot of behavior similar (or probably even more "lewd") to what Trump has done in the recording, I can tell you that it's all about puffing yourself up in front of your peers and trying to come off as cool and dominant.
Unless you're dealing with a true psychopath or misanthrope, none of it is meant to genuinely demean or dehumanize the woman on the receiving end of those remarks.
That Donald met Zucker with "the courtesy of a Boy Scout" makes it pretty clear to me that he and Billy were just fooling around and doing what immature men have been doing for as long as anyone (perhaps particularly women since they have to deal with it) can remember.
12
LR, kindly speak for yourself and your immature fellow machistas rather than suggest that the kind of despicable attitudes displayed by Trump and Bush are either yawningly common among boys and men or essentially harmless. They are neither. It's not a matter of political correctness but rather basic human respect and courtesy to eschew and condemn what Trump and Bush exemplified. And you'd better believe the dehumanizing impulse that fueled such deplorable behavior has real consequences for the women of the world that go way beyond a smarmy forced hug; just ask the women in your life if you haven't already alienated the ones who would level with you.
This kind of thinking is scary and it's exactly why we have problems with things like date rape and the kind of sexual assault Trump was boasting about.
1
Perhaps you and some others actually believe that such comments do not demean and dehumanize women simply because that is not your intent. Your self-deluding intent does not change the reality that sexual boasting and derogatory talk about women is very harmful to them and to the men who engage in it.
This so-called verbal "fooling around," as you put it, is deeply selfish and unkind, and condones a culture of male superiority and female inferiority.
This so-called verbal "fooling around," as you put it, is deeply selfish and unkind, and condones a culture of male superiority and female inferiority.
Some comments on other articles about this suggest that this type of talk is common among men in private. I am not naive but frankly this is very unsettling to hear as a woman. With all the attempts to improve women's lives be reining in harassment and sexual assault it seems we won't get very far until men start to see that talking about women like this is a problem.
71
This is no way indicative of the way most men talk in private. At least in all my experience as a middle-aged man. There has always been a crass and ignorant segment of our society and, of course, I have heard it. Racist comments. Misogynistic comments. What I usually do is avoid them. I don't engage them. And then I distance myself from them. I have actually refused work, as a self-employed person, when I realized that the person hiring me is of extremely low-character. There are so many good, decent and respectful people to work for and I'd rather be a part of helping them make money while I make a living myself.
But to have nominated this low a character for president, the republicans should be beyond shamed. They should be voted out of office entirely--as we distance ourselves from the worst our society has to offer. And hope, at some point, they find the will to change. To change their minds. Which is the goal.
Just don't expect that from Donald Trump. It won't happen.
But to have nominated this low a character for president, the republicans should be beyond shamed. They should be voted out of office entirely--as we distance ourselves from the worst our society has to offer. And hope, at some point, they find the will to change. To change their minds. Which is the goal.
Just don't expect that from Donald Trump. It won't happen.
1
PAS, please let me assure you that not all men speak in private about women the way Trump and Bush did. There are tens of millions of boys and men who avoid macho male culture like the plague on society it is. I'm a 63 year old male, married 41 years, who loves women and sex as much as any guy, but I have never--even as a teenager in a locker room--had a conversation about women that bears any resemblance to the objectifying, entitled, abusive braggadocio displayed by Trump and Bush. Never. To me, respect for women as fellow human beings has always been the baseline rather than an aspiration, and I know I am not alone among men.
1
I'm a man. I "objectify" women every time I evaluate their physical appearance. Sorry, it's programmed into our genes. But the crass conversation recorded on that bus goes far beyond any I have ever heard in anything I have ever heard. I hope that Mr. Bush loses his job, just as Mr. Trump has ensured he will never get the one he aspires to.
A fine insightful essay. A perfect read especially for those women and possibly young millenials who somehow felt that voting for Trump or a third party would be of no consequence. The attitude we see was displayed by a 60 yr. old male with a family of young children and on his 3rd wife....it is bred in his bones.
44
Among the "shocked shocked" comments (genuine or hypocritical) made by politicians regarding the Trump tape, it is refreshing to have Susan Dominus note that not all "lewd" comments rise to the level of "extremely disturbing," at least when they occur between consenting adults. With increased efforts to curb harassment and abuse, some in authority press investigations and actions into the realm of kangaroo procedures where any possible off-color remark or thought becomes a near-criminal or criminal offense. The number of adults who have engaged in comments similar to Trump's is unknown, but some of the shock expressed by politicians is surely feigned. Candidate Trump was not and is not alone in the world of the powerful who have and who do flaunt their sexual feats and fancies. And many, like Mr. Bush and Ms. Zucker, go along to get along, for many reasons known and unknown. As for Trump and his devotees, it is perhaps crude but realistic to wonder if some in the crowd would accept being groped as a treasured golden moment. For as we know, politics makes strange bed-fellows. One can hope with Susan Dominus for the Trump tape to bring down that Old Boy's Club, but chances are slim it will happen. Long ago as an incoming teenager, my mother offered this advice: Remember -- a gentleman never tells.
Doug Giebel
Big Sandy, Montana
Doug Giebel
Big Sandy, Montana
13
Excellent analysis!
Thank you for this thoughtful column.
Thank you for this thoughtful column.
45
Is there anyone out there who thinks this only happened one time, and poor Donald Trump was just unlucky to be recorded at that moment? He was 59 in 2005, and his new (third) 35-year old wife was pregnant. Maybe that justifies a guy like Trump looking for fresh meat? And it's at least partly it's the fault of young women for being so damned attractive, right?
I get that Donald Trump is not the only horndog out there, but "He did it too!" is the lamest possible excuse. If you haven't noticed, Bill Clinton is not running for President. Also please don't forget that Republicans impeached him over the Lewinsky affair. Further, "Hillary let Bill get away with it, and then she was mean to the women!" is not going to win much support among female voters. Find me a wronged wife who expresses warm fuzzy feelings about her husband's mistresses. Take your time, I can wait.
What kind words does Melania have to offer all the women her husband has degraded over the years? Did The Donald get permission to grope other women as part of his pre-nuptial contract with the current Mrs. Trump? Yes, Melania was a model and was young enough to be his daughter, but women unavoidably develop stretch marks, cellulite, and unsightly blemishes over time, while Donald Trump remains forever a Player in his own twisted, lecherous mind.
I get that Donald Trump is not the only horndog out there, but "He did it too!" is the lamest possible excuse. If you haven't noticed, Bill Clinton is not running for President. Also please don't forget that Republicans impeached him over the Lewinsky affair. Further, "Hillary let Bill get away with it, and then she was mean to the women!" is not going to win much support among female voters. Find me a wronged wife who expresses warm fuzzy feelings about her husband's mistresses. Take your time, I can wait.
What kind words does Melania have to offer all the women her husband has degraded over the years? Did The Donald get permission to grope other women as part of his pre-nuptial contract with the current Mrs. Trump? Yes, Melania was a model and was young enough to be his daughter, but women unavoidably develop stretch marks, cellulite, and unsightly blemishes over time, while Donald Trump remains forever a Player in his own twisted, lecherous mind.
149
thank you, Susan G.
you nailed it.
you nailed it.
1
well done !
I don't understand how *anyone* could vote for that man.
36
Some are wondering why GOP icons are suddenly speaking up to condemn Trump, while his obvious contempt for women has previously been A-OK with them. Simple. Trump bragged about sexually assaulting a MARRIED woman - in 1850 GOP thinking, he invaded the property of another male. Ryan and McConnell and the others still couldn't give a flip about sexual assault - by definition, it's always the woman's fault. But they're outraged that Trump had the nerve to mess with another man's female property.
187
I think the real reason the GOP leadership is so sickened by this latest Trumplosion is the one voiced by John McCain - fear that the voters will punish the whole party for Trump's words, since between the original remarks and his "apology" just shows how really low Trump will go. With any luck, their fears will be fully borne out.
This is the best response to this story that I've read! Absolutely on target!
Trump has been bragging about fooling around with married women for years.
The bigger they are, the harder they fall. Let's hope Roger Ailes, Donald Trump, and all the other old boys fall fast and hard. If you're still supporting these folks, you really are in the basket of deplorable's.
112
And this is only the beginning. The Apprentice Tapes are sure to be released forthwith. Who knows how many more are to come? Mike Pence, Trump's current enabler has learned his lines well: "Oh, come on, he never said that"...Oh, come on, he never did that." Hillary's bumpersticker: "Let's go to the video tapes"!
39
Why were not they released a year ago?
If male "superiority" in America is on life support now, with pathetic losers in ill-fitting MAGA hats on their witless heads rallying to keep it alive as it fades away, Trump can, at least, be thanked for that.
12
Trump is using sexual behavior to demonstrate dominance. Willfully going up to an unrelated woman, kissing her on the lips or groping her says to any male in the area and the female herself, that he can do whatever he likes. Normally this behavior is seen as common antisocial perversion. Trump acts this way to show the guys he is strong.
This is a window into Trump's psyche. Beware the things he would do to demonstrate dominance if he were commander in chief.
This is a window into Trump's psyche. Beware the things he would do to demonstrate dominance if he were commander in chief.
82
Now the New York Times, the Washington Post and other (real) news organizations of record must run a daily list of political figures who denounce Mr. Chump over these despicable remarks , and the self-serving cowards like Tony Perkins and Ralph Reed who continue to stand by him.
15
I can't imagine any woman voting for him.
12
"The bus is the old boys’ club that women rarely get to see inside"
Women don't always need to be physically present when disparaging conversations take place, when men admit to horrible actions, because women see the evidence of those disgusting attitudes regularly—when we are drunkenly kissed without consent, when we meet a man and notice that as we approach it is not our smiles he is looking at, and when we encounter cold condescension when we try to assert our will or discuss something important, like stepping into an icy puddle. And in fact, the Times previously interviewed women who recounted this repulsive random kissing Trump imposed on them, so I'm hardly surprised nor did I need to hear this admission. How could a man who acted as Trump has NOT have discussions like this? (The question of what outwardly decent men say in private is a more interesting one, but Trump has not met that bar.)
Perhaps it is mainly old white men and who need to hear these awful admissions; certainly the words of women did not seem to be enough for many establishment Republicans to abandon Trump, we will see if this is. As for many of Trumps' other supporters, considering all the behavior they have tolerated or embraced, including a great many deeply sexist statements, I doubt this will shake them.
Women don't always need to be physically present when disparaging conversations take place, when men admit to horrible actions, because women see the evidence of those disgusting attitudes regularly—when we are drunkenly kissed without consent, when we meet a man and notice that as we approach it is not our smiles he is looking at, and when we encounter cold condescension when we try to assert our will or discuss something important, like stepping into an icy puddle. And in fact, the Times previously interviewed women who recounted this repulsive random kissing Trump imposed on them, so I'm hardly surprised nor did I need to hear this admission. How could a man who acted as Trump has NOT have discussions like this? (The question of what outwardly decent men say in private is a more interesting one, but Trump has not met that bar.)
Perhaps it is mainly old white men and who need to hear these awful admissions; certainly the words of women did not seem to be enough for many establishment Republicans to abandon Trump, we will see if this is. As for many of Trumps' other supporters, considering all the behavior they have tolerated or embraced, including a great many deeply sexist statements, I doubt this will shake them.
12
My brothers and I were taught by our father to respect young ladies - by his words - and mostly by his example. The example of all of our neighbors, extended family and friends taught us the same. Trump is apparently a sociopath that never received this guidance - which seems to make him a tragic figure in spite of his "success". What would be even more tragic is if America accepts this behavior, and elects this bully sociopath as our president.
It must not happen.
It must not happen.
30
It's delusional to believe that this talk is 'old' or in the past. Bro' culture and college rape culture thrive on attitudes like this. We just don't hear those conversations, while Trump's comments were on tape. Billy Bush's career may be in ruins but Trump could still be elected. He seems to be able to put the wrecking ball to everyone but himself. And he has 35% + who make excuses for him - and the Republican Party, lest we forget.
14
@Christine McMorrow: Apparent you never been in a men's locker room, or the service or been exposed to the genuine lifelong suffering women face throughout the world, and especially in w.Africa where fgm is de rigeur for fathers who want to keep their daughters chaste for marriage. Girls as young as 10 r robbed of their sexuality for life by a "guerisseuse,"often equipped with only a rusty scalpel or knife, and practice is perpetuated even by educated families:It is the crudest form of paternalism.So, if u and other liberal commenters want to scale the barricades and launch a crusade, u could do no greater service to womankind. But everyone is afraid of the Islamicists.HRC keeps her distance. They r a powerful voting group, especially in Michigan.Where were u and fellow feminists when the anti fmg spokeswoman tried to speak at Brandeis U., but had to withdraw because of protests from Muslim groups on campus?Were u involved in the counterprotest shouting,"Let her speak!"Interview with Steinhem in NYT was revealing because Steinhem, despite being a spokeswoman for womens' rights, was asked no questions re fgm, and offered no opinions on it. Yet, what issue is more crucial to a woman's happiness and well being than being able to reach a sexual climax, a joy that over 90 percent of African women will never experience.
2
Sorry but Hillary is also a part of the old boys club, as a Democratic Party hack she plays by their rules. It will take a lot more than this to transform institutionalized sexism, along with all the other "isms" that this election highlights. As a lifelong political activist and independent I get no gratification from the holier than thou articles and pundits and politicians in this moment. We are all responsible for our democracy. Can we develop? I say yes, but let's start to transfer power back to our people as a starting point. Trump is not saying or doing much out of the ordinary for men in our world. Sadly. And Hillary is not our savior. She is an opportunist who will use this to "win" but what are we winning?
2
Yyou are winning this:
https://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/
https://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/
3
You are winning a highly intelligent, controlled, internationally respected leader, an attorney, former Senator, former Secretary of State, who grasps the system of government and can deal with a large range of people - from world leaders to common citizens. You are winning a responsible president who works very hard to develop healthy policy. Vs. a narcissitic failure at business, cheat of banks and contractors, out of control very bad joke.
Bravo, Ms. Dominus. Thank you for the intelligent and accurate commentary.
11
I looked at the CNN page describing how the tape came to light. http://money.cnn.com/2016/10/07/media/access-hollywood-donald-trump-tape... At the the end of the article there is a tweet in response to Trump's mention on the tape of "Nancy" as follows:
O'Dell and "Entertainment Tonight," the show she now co-anchors, both declined to comment. But Brad Bessey, the former executive producer of "Entertainment Tonight," said in a tweet that O'Dell is "is classy, beautiful, family-focused, intelligent & a great journalist. Above the sexist objectification of @realDonaldTrump."
I think Brad Bessey's tweet is pretty darn sexist as well. When is a professional man ever described in those terms, in that sequence?!?
O'Dell and "Entertainment Tonight," the show she now co-anchors, both declined to comment. But Brad Bessey, the former executive producer of "Entertainment Tonight," said in a tweet that O'Dell is "is classy, beautiful, family-focused, intelligent & a great journalist. Above the sexist objectification of @realDonaldTrump."
I think Brad Bessey's tweet is pretty darn sexist as well. When is a professional man ever described in those terms, in that sequence?!?
10
The pendulum in this country swings so wildly, and what is true for a handful suddenly becomes the norm for all. What I mean by this is, I hope this episode does not morph into a full throated indictment and bashing of men in general.
I have to say, there is a lot of man hating out there with women I know. Many who have great lives with the men they love, no problems at work, yet spit out the stereotypes they seem to have internalized from sitcoms, movies, and now politics. I challenge the male bashing as readily and as openly as I do any misogynist-tinged talk.
I am a wife, the mother of four sons, and an employee who works with many men of great and respectful character. Donald Trump is a horrible human being -- no argument there. But let's not let his poison seep any further than it has to.
Trump does not represent the male gender as a whole, by a long shot. Look around at the good and decent men who are everywhere in our lives, some of whom we love deeply. Let us not allow this sick man's mental illness to reflect and disparage the men who don't deserve to be colored with his misogynistic, pornographic brush. I think it's a real risk.
I have to say, there is a lot of man hating out there with women I know. Many who have great lives with the men they love, no problems at work, yet spit out the stereotypes they seem to have internalized from sitcoms, movies, and now politics. I challenge the male bashing as readily and as openly as I do any misogynist-tinged talk.
I am a wife, the mother of four sons, and an employee who works with many men of great and respectful character. Donald Trump is a horrible human being -- no argument there. But let's not let his poison seep any further than it has to.
Trump does not represent the male gender as a whole, by a long shot. Look around at the good and decent men who are everywhere in our lives, some of whom we love deeply. Let us not allow this sick man's mental illness to reflect and disparage the men who don't deserve to be colored with his misogynistic, pornographic brush. I think it's a real risk.
8
I haven't heard anyone claim that Trump represents the male gender as a whole.
i hope these supporters of the elephant in the race have been looking at their daughters and wives a bit differently now. maybe not but i bet most of them want at some time today to eat a meal with the family in attendance. how does a loving parent tell their daughters about this guy and why that sign is still in the front yard.
10
This is the first piece I've read that touches on consent.
11
Here is Donald Trump and his creepy toady revealing the Louis Vuitton backpack of white, male, celebrity privilege. We are a nation where tens of millions of people, male and female, mostly white, think this represents leadership. Where one of the parties in a two party system offers us and by extension the world this man as a legitimate choice for the job often called " Leader of the Free World"
This is a hard mirror to look in.
This is a hard mirror to look in.
12
I can't understand how anyone who has a mother, aunt, daughter, wife, or even a female friend can vote for someone who completely disregards women as stupid, empty, and void of substance. I hope men who were watching heard how idiotic and disgusting Donald Trump sounded, because men need to hold each other accountable. Talking about women like objects doesn't make you strong or powerful; it makes you look insecure, weak, and pathetic. It's not enough for women to stand up to Trump; men have to stand up too.
29
Trump just plain disgusts me.
He represents wealth and privilege run amok. Bush comes across as what he is: a little toady; a court jester; a human remora who attaches himself to a shark like Trump in exchange for a few morsels of his host's kills.
Sickening. I remain depressed that the people of this country somehow allowed a psychopath like Trump to be a candidate for the POTUS.
He represents wealth and privilege run amok. Bush comes across as what he is: a little toady; a court jester; a human remora who attaches himself to a shark like Trump in exchange for a few morsels of his host's kills.
Sickening. I remain depressed that the people of this country somehow allowed a psychopath like Trump to be a candidate for the POTUS.
14
Oh, Susan. How I wish your optimism were justified, that the Old Boy's Club had just been struck a fatal blow. But as a male who lives in a pretty sedate little community north of the Mason Dixon line I know that fully 50% of the Trump supporters in this region are in Hillary's basket of deplorables, fully capable of enjoying, and creating, the kinds of remarks Bush and Trump were caught mouthing. I don't assume things are much worse south of Mason Dixon but neither to I think they are any better. The Old Boys Club is alive and well and a lot of politicians are squirming, hoping they haven't been caught on "open mic".
12
Thanks for a terrific piece.
4
Where are Trump's minions, the law men Giuliani and Christie.
12
Also sickening is the preening, eager, young, male sycophant, capitalizing on the "old ways" to leverage his own professional network and perceived talents to climb his career ladder. The beat goes on to the next generation...
15
Anyone who knows him knows the words reflect, precisely, who he is.
14
Please, please, please GOP I implore you to speak privately with Paul Ryan and impore him to step up. Let's call an emergency replacement meeting IMMEDIATELY! If we don't replace DJT we are going to be stuck with one of the most corrupt elitists ever. DUMP TRUMP this weekend!
4
None of the Trump replacements would be any better, Ryan, Pence et al might be more polite but they don't have any respect for women.
What sweet irony that this vile man may belp bring down the patriarchy from which he so benefitted. As a fellow man I am fed up with disgusting behavior like this. We can do so much better.
I will be voting enthusiastically for Hillary on November 8.
I will be voting enthusiastically for Hillary on November 8.
14
The good old boys' bus went to the same place racism went: underground, lurking , awaiting opportunity.
14
This is not acceptable. United States Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas was raked over the coals based on the accusations of Ms. Anita Hill. There is hard evidence regarding Mr. Trump, and a certain segment of society still supports this man -- including a number of our political leaders. Shame, shame, shame!
6
Why didn't all of this come out during the primaries? It's hard to believe this is what we're talking about for the presidential election. The Republican party cannot just distance themselves from Trump, they need to remove him as their candidate. This candidate is a disgrace to the US, it's presidency and certainly to all Republicans. If this continues, the old boy's club will be reborn and the US takes a huge nosedive if by a horrific chance, Trump is elected president.
5
It's been said before that any new revelations of Trump's vulgarity and sexism don't tell us anything we don't already know. It's no longer a surprise that his supporters don't care.
10
Sorry but this is no surprise to any female. This guys club mentality is shown on television and film all the time. Some men are so classless as to display that behavior in public, whether to a woman directly or about another woman in her vicinity. We're practically raised on it. And we learn, as Ms. Zucker did, to handle such impropriety with a smile and a giggle because we're supposed to be "nice". Still infuriating but not new.
21
Ms. Dominus writes, "We, the audience, know something she [Ms. Zucker] does not, which is that only moments earlier, Trump was coldly appraising her body parts," but I agree with Diva: Ms. Zucker knew (or presumed) it and went along. It was her job.
No, it's not her job. It's the unfortunate and frequent situation for women across the globe if they wish to keep their job.
The right word? Vile. These thoughts, words, the shared and witnessed acting out behaviour is 1 microstep from violence.
12
i, too, was truly struck by Mr. Trump's seemingly easy transition from one mode (his way of speaking about the actress while she was still out of earshot) to another (speaking to the actress as he greeted her). Case closed, one hopes.
3
All good points, Ms. Dominus, and of course Trump is a boor who should never be president. But, Bill Clinton is clearly and obviously one of the boys on the bus, psychologically and in deed. I'm sure we'll hear Hillary Clinton railing against Trump, but if so I wonder if her real target, unspoken, is the boor she's married to.
2
You nailed it, and them, Ms. Dominus. How pathetic is it that Donald Trump feels he has to brag about his sexual dynamism to the likes of Billy Bush for God's sake. Add to that, Billy's gleeful, little brother act, trying to gain favor with the likes of Trump, by finagling a hug from a beautiful woman and both men come across as Sad Boys instead of Mad Men. To paraphrase Groucho " I would not belong to any club that would have these two as members"
6
Lewd? Disturbing? This man needs to stop being described and start being shunned. And we need to have a serious conversation about gender. I am a woman. And I am harassed every single day by a man at least once.
9
Republicans, how did you explain these comments to your children?
Trump supporters, how can you pull the lever for this creep?
Trump supporters, how can you pull the lever for this creep?
12
How I wish it were true; but the "old boys' club" will not be felled by Trump's bus tape. It will inflict a minor dent, perhaps, or more likely a springboard for important discussion & reflection. The old boys' club will need another generation to seriously weaken.
3
They don't have power over her simply because they spoke about her. She's no fool or victim. She's an attractive woman and although fortunately she didn't hear how disgusting they were being, she clearly sensed their sleazy vibe and desire to hit on her. The power play working against her is so much bigger than those two bozos. It's the context of her being obliged to maintain some kind of professional and social decorum when Billy Bush is inappropriately coercing her to give them kisses and hugs and asking who she'd date (really?!) and she has to play along because it's her job. Notice she didn't hug The Donald and gave Billy a pity hug. In my opinion she handled their trash with courteous class and brushed them off like the dirt on her shoulder they were.
30
You gotta love his apology - "I pledge to be a better man tomorrow".
Tomorrow? It sounds like he's asking for another day to act like a complete pig...
Tomorrow? It sounds like he's asking for another day to act like a complete pig...
12
Spot on.
Sexual interest is normal. Sexual control, and viewing a human in no other light than their sexuality, is a trait that I hope is aging out of our society, as gross old men like Trump die off. The younger generation has been raised with more powerful, educated, and independent women who have hopefully instilled a greater sense of appreciation of others' full merits, not just physical.
The old - boys' network is aptly named, and destined for the history books. Insecure, shallow and immature bro's to the bitter end..
Long live the REAL men who love, work with, adventure with, and share sensuality *with*, the women whose lives they touch.
Sexual interest is normal. Sexual control, and viewing a human in no other light than their sexuality, is a trait that I hope is aging out of our society, as gross old men like Trump die off. The younger generation has been raised with more powerful, educated, and independent women who have hopefully instilled a greater sense of appreciation of others' full merits, not just physical.
The old - boys' network is aptly named, and destined for the history books. Insecure, shallow and immature bro's to the bitter end..
Long live the REAL men who love, work with, adventure with, and share sensuality *with*, the women whose lives they touch.
16
I love this article. However , it is not necessary to put down " drooling dimwits" and "stupid " people to condemn the old boys club . Those phrases have historically and or traditionally been applied to people who have disabilities. Women who have intellectual disabilities have been hurt by attitudes like Trump's too.
1
Excellent analysis! There is not enough lipstick in the world make this pig presentable.
If we didn't before, we now know the real profession of all of Mr. Trumps "spokespersons" or "apologists". The only remaining question is "How much do they charge?"
If we didn't before, we now know the real profession of all of Mr. Trumps "spokespersons" or "apologists". The only remaining question is "How much do they charge?"
11
Men will be men, and we do have a tendency to objectify women, but I refuse to believe that most of us would go so far as to (privately) endorse sexual assault. I think that's the line Trump crossed here, and to whatever boys club he think he belongs should be dismantled. I refuse to believe most decent men endorse this, even in the company of other men.
12
Dominos gets it right. Billy Bush pimps for Trump AFTER he has talked about assault. Romney's tweet mentioned assault but most have dealt with this as offensive. This is what rape culture looks like folks.
13
Now just wait: Limbaugh, the great radio misogynist, will defend even this--and his hordes of followers will ape what he says.
6
Trump has plenty to apologize for. Mocking a disabled reporter, calling Mexican immigrants rapists, demeaning an Indiana-born judge as if he were not a citizen, encouraging gun rights supporters to target his opponent, the list boggles the mind.
Yet it reportedly took 10 hours for him to issue an apology "if" anyone was offended. The father of two daughters apparently would not be appalled to see them characterized and treated in this manner. After all, Trump would date his own "hot" daughter, if she weren't a member of his family.
The American people and our allies cannot trust this insensitive, self- promoting, untrustworthy, ignorant boor.
Yet it reportedly took 10 hours for him to issue an apology "if" anyone was offended. The father of two daughters apparently would not be appalled to see them characterized and treated in this manner. After all, Trump would date his own "hot" daughter, if she weren't a member of his family.
The American people and our allies cannot trust this insensitive, self- promoting, untrustworthy, ignorant boor.
21
I know Trump personally as I worked for him for 18 years. Although he did not say the exact words in front of me, he did, in a limosine full of people, say that the reason his business was having troubles, in 1991 when he started collapsing, was because he let his executive run things while he was having sex with multiple women. He blamed them and his irresistible allure to women that he just couldn't resist. So this comes as no surprise, vile as it is. But I take exception to the idea that this behavior belongs back in the 70's. You have 40% of the electorate that still finds it acceptable. What do you think men say in these gentlemen's clubs that dot the horizon across America. What do they say in the porno that proliferates the internet. Who is still reading the Playboys and Penthouses and worse? No, its still around and Trump wants to make it acceptable. HIs surrogates are already putting a boys will be boys spin on it.
94
This is not just "lewd"; it is sexual assault. Trump brags about sexually assaulting dozens of women and laughs that they "can't do anything" because he "is a star". He told his own daughter that if she is harassed, she should quit her job and maybe find an entirely new career.
Shame on the media for excusing Trump's treatment of women and other minorities.
Shame on the media for excusing Trump's treatment of women and other minorities.
31
I'm a man, but have never been a member of any "old boys club". There certainly are men who talk and act like Trump and Bush, but I and many other men flee from them as toxic adolescents, school yard bullies, who never grew up.
25
Thank you. I really appreciate people like you speaking up.
This is the underlying message Hillary needs to deliver to undecided/independent women. Is it pandering? Maybe. But it reflects one view on establishment that perhaps is a counterpoint to the other view on establishment (that she is seen as being on the wrong side of). Many men do talk like this, and I think many women (especially the onlies or the few in male dominated domains) fear that this is so and that they are unwitting props to such "locker-room" banter.
5
NBC should fire Billy Bus, and civilized voters know what to do about Trump.
15
The power is all theirs. Billy Bush was acting like a pimp. Thank you for articulating the everyday
experience of women. These humiliating, degrading words can never be unheard but heard and felt by women everyday by men with lasting impact. Your article gave voice to me, and so many like me.
experience of women. These humiliating, degrading words can never be unheard but heard and felt by women everyday by men with lasting impact. Your article gave voice to me, and so many like me.
4
If this election has achieved anything, its made it impossible for any reasonable person to deny the depth of misogyny at all levels of American culture. Just when the media were finally recognizing that the extreme emotional vitriol of 'distrust, dishonest' issue with Clinton has its roots in her gender, we had the Fox news revelations and learned that even someone as valuable to the network as Megan Kelly was not protected from it. Then, we started getting the dribbles of media attention on Trump's long-standing and well documented hostility toward women. The religious right ignored it. Even ignored having a First Lady who had been in what more people would consider pornography. Nothing resonated.
Enter the debate and Miss Universe and the media outrage. And, finally the real window into this disgusting man's predatory relationship with women. Maybe, just maybe this will lead to some soul searching.
Enter the debate and Miss Universe and the media outrage. And, finally the real window into this disgusting man's predatory relationship with women. Maybe, just maybe this will lead to some soul searching.
3
Trump represents those men who believe that power and coercion are seductive weapons and that when a woman says "no", in reality, she is saying "go ahead".
Men like this ignorant mysoginistic, narcissistic, racist bigot and pathological liar, who behaves like a feudal lord with "droit du seigneur", represent the worst of our species.
Men like this ignorant mysoginistic, narcissistic, racist bigot and pathological liar, who behaves like a feudal lord with "droit du seigneur", represent the worst of our species.
4
Oh please...! As if women never talk behind men's back and objectify a their value by his money or looks. Or how easy it is for pretty women to disarm a man with their looks, charm and possibility of more.
Being a man I've heard stupid man talk like this my whole life. If you've lived in NYC for more than 15 - 20 years you know walking through midtown for women was often a non stop cat call or lewd sexual propositions that disgusted me and girlfriends and made Trumps tape sound like kindigarden.
Seems like the nytimes is praying this is the knockout punch for Trump. But in reality the people favoring Trump already know how men talk about women when alone and are more concerned about Hillary's backroom deals with Wall Street that affect their economic livelihoods. As the leaks of Hillary's statements to Wall Street suggest. The entry of women into the backroom doesn't change the privileged perspective and willingness to throw the underclass under a bus to achieve their high minded goals.
Being a man I've heard stupid man talk like this my whole life. If you've lived in NYC for more than 15 - 20 years you know walking through midtown for women was often a non stop cat call or lewd sexual propositions that disgusted me and girlfriends and made Trumps tape sound like kindigarden.
Seems like the nytimes is praying this is the knockout punch for Trump. But in reality the people favoring Trump already know how men talk about women when alone and are more concerned about Hillary's backroom deals with Wall Street that affect their economic livelihoods. As the leaks of Hillary's statements to Wall Street suggest. The entry of women into the backroom doesn't change the privileged perspective and willingness to throw the underclass under a bus to achieve their high minded goals.
2
This isn't just talk, Trump bragged about sexually assaulting women.
It's too easy to call it locker room chatter and say all men speak that way in an effort to wash away the filth. If you deny the power of the words than you disempower women everywhere by denying them their right to feel violated by the essence of them.
We live in a misogynistic society but we do not have to be a victim of it. It is time for women to form one voice against the violent thoughts that pervade our society and perpetuate in our media. If this is the way men talk behind closed doors it's time to listen at the door.
We are not your prize. You do not own our bodies.
We live in a misogynistic society but we do not have to be a victim of it. It is time for women to form one voice against the violent thoughts that pervade our society and perpetuate in our media. If this is the way men talk behind closed doors it's time to listen at the door.
We are not your prize. You do not own our bodies.
5
The wrecking ball is long overdue.
What is sad is how many women support the GOP's efforts to keep women barefoot, pregnant and in the kitchen.
Reflect that during the 2nd world war, women filled the jobs left vacant when men joined the armed services, only to be put back to pasture when they returned. There were better ways to re-employ the veterans and/or the women but no one considered those options.
That the male factions of GOP still deny the legalities afforded by Roe v Wade speaks volumes about just how they truly view women. The wrecking ball cannot come soon enough.
What is sad is how many women support the GOP's efforts to keep women barefoot, pregnant and in the kitchen.
Reflect that during the 2nd world war, women filled the jobs left vacant when men joined the armed services, only to be put back to pasture when they returned. There were better ways to re-employ the veterans and/or the women but no one considered those options.
That the male factions of GOP still deny the legalities afforded by Roe v Wade speaks volumes about just how they truly view women. The wrecking ball cannot come soon enough.
10
Oh do educate yourself as yo at least which party fought for women's right to vote and which opposed it vehemently and for decades on record. Hint: it is not as it was painted for you...
http://bit.do/ignorantsrealitycheck
http://bit.do/ignorantsrealitycheck
Well done Susan! Your straight to the point analysis strips away all the excuses for bad, really bad, behavior. Instead of talking among ourselves, swapping horror stories about certain men's sexist behavior, you have brought this widespread reality into the light. No more sweeping aside this "boys will be boys" idiocy.
9
Poor Donald Trump. All he wanted to do was serve Americans by cutting taxes for the rich, putting women in their place, and reminding immigrants they are second-class citizens. Where did it all go wrong?
62
I don't think there is any wrecking ball that can destroy this "for good." It is about power and desire. These things are real. Men kill for them. Unless you have a plan to systematically drug all males into permanent somnolence and docility, (this may be possible-- see The Matrix and imagine that only men are hooked up to it) this is life as we know it.
Of course this can be countered with self-control and cultural forces to some degree-- but it is power itself that counters those cultural forces. The powerful live apart and they do what they can do, because they have what others are willing to sacrifice in order to get.
Welcome to the jungle, lady. I am not saying it is right. I am saying that "right and wrong" is a synthetic idea that requires constant regeneration, while natural power springs eternal.
Of course this can be countered with self-control and cultural forces to some degree-- but it is power itself that counters those cultural forces. The powerful live apart and they do what they can do, because they have what others are willing to sacrifice in order to get.
Welcome to the jungle, lady. I am not saying it is right. I am saying that "right and wrong" is a synthetic idea that requires constant regeneration, while natural power springs eternal.
5
Two bit pimp is exactly right. Ergo, NBC has its morning show hosted at least in part by a two bit pimp. Hard to believe he still has a job. But apparently NBC likes pimps as infotainment presenters. Any news from them is purely coincidental. This story is a good example.
19
From the first moment we heard from Mr Trump in this campaign, we knew that he was self aggrandizing, brutish, and without the capacity for self reflection. This tape is both horrifying and totally predictable since we already knew he had sexually objectified his own daughter, commented about the looks of female ( and male) candidates in a presedential campaign, and continually embarrassed himself- though he doesn't appear to recognize it. To blame his behavior on a seventies mentality only scratches the surface. It is now 2016 and no one in his family or his circle of sycophants has dared to enlighten him for fear of bullying and withdrawal of monetary favor and position. His sons appear to be clones of their father and, sadly, his lovely and very accomplished daughter has bought the package. He has given daily opportunitirs to elected Republican officials to speak out and, even at risk of losing this election, do the right thing. Perhaps his behavior past and present is so blatant that they have been blinded. Hopefully with this " proof" of what has been continually in front of them, they will act.
10
Trump's "locker room banter" makes clear he is better suited as the leader of rape culture than of the Free World. There is no way to spin this.
24
"Anyone who knows me knows these words don’t reflect who I am,” Mr. Trump continued." No, Donald Trump, anyone who knows anything about you; anyone who has listened to your remarks and watched your behavior over the past year, knows that "these words" perfectly reflect the type of person you really are.
3
Great piece. Trump treats women as brainless objects. Shame on him!
3
Makes me sick to my stomach?
Here are the qualifications in my book to hold the highest office in the land:
1) mental stability
2) basic human decency and respect
3) knowledge and experience pertinent to the job
Once those have been established, only then should we be talking about policies and ideology.
Trump has repeatedly failed on all of the above. Therefore, I don't care whether I agree with his policies or not. They are irrelevant.
This election is not about liberal vs. conservative. It is not about your taxes. It is not about abortion. It is not about foreign policy. It is about handing an enormous amount of power to an unqualified man. Think about it.
1) mental stability
2) basic human decency and respect
3) knowledge and experience pertinent to the job
Once those have been established, only then should we be talking about policies and ideology.
Trump has repeatedly failed on all of the above. Therefore, I don't care whether I agree with his policies or not. They are irrelevant.
This election is not about liberal vs. conservative. It is not about your taxes. It is not about abortion. It is not about foreign policy. It is about handing an enormous amount of power to an unqualified man. Think about it.
9
This is the kind of deconstruction of blatant male sexism we women's libbers were writing fifty years ago.
Let's place that in its proper time continuum by calling fifty years a half century.
I don't know why it's taken so long to get to this point. Whether it's a point of no return for Donald Trump still remains to be seen.
In the time since the sisters woke up singing "I am woman, hear me roar," unequal pay hasn't gone away. Sexual harassment in the workplace hasn't gone away. Blaming rape victims still happens, Clarence Thomas made it onto the Supreme Court as senators trampled Anita Hill out of the way, and Donald Trump can say Hillary Clinton doesn't have the look of a president and his supporters can wear tee shirts emblazoned with the B-word, and the little dog-brained boys of the alt right and allegedly righteous evangelicals are still defending him as God's champion against political correctness.
Let's not count our chickens, yet, Ms. Dominus. There are still four excruciating weeks to go.
Let's place that in its proper time continuum by calling fifty years a half century.
I don't know why it's taken so long to get to this point. Whether it's a point of no return for Donald Trump still remains to be seen.
In the time since the sisters woke up singing "I am woman, hear me roar," unequal pay hasn't gone away. Sexual harassment in the workplace hasn't gone away. Blaming rape victims still happens, Clarence Thomas made it onto the Supreme Court as senators trampled Anita Hill out of the way, and Donald Trump can say Hillary Clinton doesn't have the look of a president and his supporters can wear tee shirts emblazoned with the B-word, and the little dog-brained boys of the alt right and allegedly righteous evangelicals are still defending him as God's champion against political correctness.
Let's not count our chickens, yet, Ms. Dominus. There are still four excruciating weeks to go.
8
Any woman who's ever been treated this way -- and that's all of us -- knows this kind of behavior has to stop. As voters, we have the power to say "Enough, you lying predator. This stops NOW!!"
9
Thank you, Ms. Dominus, for so concisely and clearly naming the heavy, inescapable burden that women in every context struggle under all through our lives. The weight descends even before high school and never seems to let up. We feel it from puberty on--all through high school, college, grad school, our working lives, even after our hair turns gray. The weight of the male gaze and the hidden-from-public-view but subtly expressed and always sensed male judgment of our bodies and desirability pushes women to try so hard to be "prettier" and "sexier." To please our masters we lose weight, spend thousands on clothes and cosmetics and--gulp--cosmetic surgery. We even turn against each other, as we flail about, trying to find some relief from the terrible weight. Throughout our whole adult lives we behave exactly like the slaves or prisoners we are. We are seized by a variety of Stockholm Syndrome, hoping if we find a way to measure up, we might be taken seriously in the classroom, the staff meeting, the community forum. All in vain. Even the best of us can't get out from under. (How many comments have you heard about Hillary Clinton's hair and pant suits?) I'm 72 now, retired from the professional world, and have finally (almost) escaped. Looking back on my life, thanks to this brief essay, so much falls into its proper frame. I fervently, deeply hope that younger women and men now see what before was hidden and end this crazy, disabling, habitual way of relating to each other.
8
I'd call the tape "nauseatingly depraved" and was - to speak of my growing knowledge of Mr. Trump - not really shocked that it surfaced. He is a most slimy human being.
4
Never read a better explanation of how the othering and objectifying of women reduces their power. Those in-the-know have power, but women can't be in the know because (so far) they're the ones the powerful have been talking about.
5
Yes! Just yes. Watching them with Zucker was the worst of all. What better example is possible of insidious power relationships?
3
I was NOT impressed by Donald Trump's apology. Just another con by Don the Con!
8
This country has hit an all time low and it is a true embarrassment. The whole world is watching as the US, which has been a leader of the free world, continues in a downward spiral.
I am tired of hearing the GOP scold Trump out of one side of their mouth while saying they will vote for him, but not support him. Guess what? Voting for him is a sign of support. Enough with the double talk.
And, how can it be that tens of millions of american's are avid supporters of a man who is so vile and disgusting, so willfully ignorant, so blatantly hateful and scornful of anyone he considers beneath him- like women, muslims, hispanics, blacks, the disabled, just to name a few. And, the most offensive of all is that many of his followers are so called "christians" who see absolutely no problem with praising a man who is the absolute opposite of what a christian should be.
Enough! Our country deserves better than a depraved former reality t.v. running for president. When Trump makes his final descent then crashes and burns I hope he takes the entire GOP with him. Perhaps that is what it will take to turn this entire debacle around.
I am tired of hearing the GOP scold Trump out of one side of their mouth while saying they will vote for him, but not support him. Guess what? Voting for him is a sign of support. Enough with the double talk.
And, how can it be that tens of millions of american's are avid supporters of a man who is so vile and disgusting, so willfully ignorant, so blatantly hateful and scornful of anyone he considers beneath him- like women, muslims, hispanics, blacks, the disabled, just to name a few. And, the most offensive of all is that many of his followers are so called "christians" who see absolutely no problem with praising a man who is the absolute opposite of what a christian should be.
Enough! Our country deserves better than a depraved former reality t.v. running for president. When Trump makes his final descent then crashes and burns I hope he takes the entire GOP with him. Perhaps that is what it will take to turn this entire debacle around.
7
And there are mothers, fathers, daughters, sons, brothers and sisters (not to mention husbands) still willing to vote for him?
5
This is ridiculous. What does this have to do with price of tea in China?
1
Speaks to character. Trump has none. He absolutely should never get his hands on the nuclear button.
Says the man with no clue.
In politics, business and academia women are still overlooked, mocked and belittled. Our success is attributed to the men (or lack thereof) in our lives, our efforts seen as lesser, our creativity as "ditzy". This is our reality, this is our struggle. While the majority of men are decent and treat us as equals, it only take one to destroy the work environment and corporate culture for the women in any organization, it only takes one to make us dread going into work each day, it only takes one.
4
Rarely see? Do you mean, Rarely hear? A bigger untruth. Female millennial students are subjected three or four times a day to obscene comments and catcalls. In Chinatown my daughter and I waited at a corner when a truck pulled up. Three young men barked obscenities at her. Had I had a shotgun I would have turned their jawbones into horseshoes. Did you hear that? I asked her boyfriend. Yes, he said. Did you hear that? I asked my daughter. No, she said. Saul Bellow called it "the moronic inferno."
3
Trump' s first apology should be to Ms. Zucker. This recording humiliates her, a professional actress doing her job in her workplace.
But that's not enough; it goes on to humiliate his wife, and by indirectly, his daughters. It's obvious that the Old Boys Club is alive and well. In the situation on this bus, Trump was the Celebrity, the guest of honor, the Big Dog. What kind of leadership did he choose exhibit to the men on the bus? He could have pushed back on the "locker room" talk, but he wanted to be one of the boys, and as the Star, he was leader of this dog pack. So we see his leadership style; he could have simply said " wow she's beautiful" but he mashes the whole event up with gross stories of his other conquests and frames the situationt to plant the question in his pack's minds, "When will the Donald be grabbing this babe' s p#$$y?". That's actually assault! In the end, this was a work event. All involved were representing some entity and being paid for it. But only the woman is denigrated.
Women are sick to death of this on-the-job behavior being called "boyish" and "locker room".
But that's not enough; it goes on to humiliate his wife, and by indirectly, his daughters. It's obvious that the Old Boys Club is alive and well. In the situation on this bus, Trump was the Celebrity, the guest of honor, the Big Dog. What kind of leadership did he choose exhibit to the men on the bus? He could have pushed back on the "locker room" talk, but he wanted to be one of the boys, and as the Star, he was leader of this dog pack. So we see his leadership style; he could have simply said " wow she's beautiful" but he mashes the whole event up with gross stories of his other conquests and frames the situationt to plant the question in his pack's minds, "When will the Donald be grabbing this babe' s p#$$y?". That's actually assault! In the end, this was a work event. All involved were representing some entity and being paid for it. But only the woman is denigrated.
Women are sick to death of this on-the-job behavior being called "boyish" and "locker room".
3
Sickeningly, too many women have heard men talk like that.
Women are familiar with how many men really feel about us. And the Trump fans won't bail on him for this, just another example of how "not PC" he is.
I really hope I'm wrong.
Women are familiar with how many men really feel about us. And the Trump fans won't bail on him for this, just another example of how "not PC" he is.
I really hope I'm wrong.
5
I vote for the wrecking ball. Although those willing to sweep all sins Trump under the carpet, certainly won't be happy.
I'm trying to break down Trump's attitude as a 60 year old man into age ranges where his development stalled. Partly 5 y.o.- he wants what he wants now, other people's wishes not withstanding. Maybe a 12 y.o. as he demonstrates he can use all the forbidden words. Finally a 16 y.o. when testosterone seems to interfere with thinking.
Most men grow out of those stages. Oh there's locker room talk, most know about but not all participate in. But by the time you hit 60 you should have gotten to a place where if you were hung up at 5, 12, or 16 years old, at least you were aware enough to keep that to yourself. And certainly if you had any political ambitions.
Trump is not aware of how the world perceives him. He has no censor controlling his mouth. And lucky him, he has an audience who interprets all that stunted development, all that spoiled rich kid entitlement, into "Trump tells it like it is." Those of us standing on the outside look at him and wonder how a man with so many obvious defects could be where he is. And maybe, just maybe he's finally crossed a line that there's no coming back from. I hope so.
I'm trying to break down Trump's attitude as a 60 year old man into age ranges where his development stalled. Partly 5 y.o.- he wants what he wants now, other people's wishes not withstanding. Maybe a 12 y.o. as he demonstrates he can use all the forbidden words. Finally a 16 y.o. when testosterone seems to interfere with thinking.
Most men grow out of those stages. Oh there's locker room talk, most know about but not all participate in. But by the time you hit 60 you should have gotten to a place where if you were hung up at 5, 12, or 16 years old, at least you were aware enough to keep that to yourself. And certainly if you had any political ambitions.
Trump is not aware of how the world perceives him. He has no censor controlling his mouth. And lucky him, he has an audience who interprets all that stunted development, all that spoiled rich kid entitlement, into "Trump tells it like it is." Those of us standing on the outside look at him and wonder how a man with so many obvious defects could be where he is. And maybe, just maybe he's finally crossed a line that there's no coming back from. I hope so.
9
Yeah, right. This will be the "wrecking ball" that destroys the old-boys club just like Obama's presidency destroyed racism.
When and if HRC is elected president, the level of vitriol spewed by right-wing Republicans will skyrocket. It's what they do whenever someone who isn't supposed to attains a position of power.
When and if HRC is elected president, the level of vitriol spewed by right-wing Republicans will skyrocket. It's what they do whenever someone who isn't supposed to attains a position of power.
14
Hope springs eternal!
1
Most of the men in the locker room at my gym in Chelsea NEVER talk about women that way. Other than some divas, they NEVER talk about any women.
4
I have three teenage daughters and this is what worries me the most about sending them out into the workforce, that they run into someone like Trump. Luckily they are strong willed. I hope that is enough.
4
The 10,000 year-old war against women is being lost in America, and will in time be lost globally. Donnie Trump and his band of Neanderthals are headed for extinction. The man-pigs won't give up easily; consider Saudi Arabia, for example, but it's only a matter of time.
2
Susan Dominus says that lewd can be sexy in a "slumming-it kind of way." Seriously this is an offensive and patronizing remark by Dominus that reeks of disdain for the millions of persons throughout the world who live in slums. We can be outraged by Trump's remarks but we can avoid prejudicial remarks about those forced to live in heartbreaking conditions in order to make a point.
1
Boy, from the "apology" it's really apparent how much the developer is warming up to the teleprompter. He appears to be "really himself", albeit in a coerced hostage situation kind of way. What is most interesting is how insincere he appears with no body movement, very little if any emotion; an extreme contrast with his normal public speaking persona.
Maybe if we could see his hands, we could catch some secret signal or crossed fingers. Maybe someday in the future he'll compare this to being held as a prisoner of war.
Maybe if we could see his hands, we could catch some secret signal or crossed fingers. Maybe someday in the future he'll compare this to being held as a prisoner of war.
2
One of the best things I've read in a very very long time!
2
This essay perfectly captures it.
1
Call me crazy but don't women need to take responsibility for some of this? I am a 61 yr old woman who considers herself a feminist. I absolutely despise Don Con! However, it seems like when a woman dresses like the actress featured in the video, they are flaunting their sexuality. When men react (mind you these guys' reaction is way over the top) the women are considered victims and the men are considered pigs. It seems like a bit of a double standard.
1
You are delusional if you think that what the woman wore or how she behaved is the cause of this horrifying behavior. So those who are raped are responsible for their rapists acts. Trump and Bush are not responding to how she is dressed or how she behaved. These men are predatory and what they did should not be excused by anyone. Their behavior is nasty and immoral. There is no double standard here.
1
Should we all wear Burkas then? Men can't control themselves when they see a beautiful woman? She is wearing an evening gown; her shoulders show--big deal. Your viewpoint is really regressive.
1
This was an actress on a soap opera, and she probably wasn't playing a nun. The conversation started long before she came into view, she just became another target for his "manly banter."
That being said, in case you haven't noticed, many people dress provocatively in public, a lot of the time more provocatively, than I find tasteful, obviously more provocatively than you find tasteful. The fact is, the way a person dresses is no excuse for someone else's foul behaviour. This discussion is about a person who purports to be "the best candidate ever" to run for the office of President of the United States. He's being revealed on a daily basis as a misogynist, sexist pig, That is the real story here.
That being said, in case you haven't noticed, many people dress provocatively in public, a lot of the time more provocatively, than I find tasteful, obviously more provocatively than you find tasteful. The fact is, the way a person dresses is no excuse for someone else's foul behaviour. This discussion is about a person who purports to be "the best candidate ever" to run for the office of President of the United States. He's being revealed on a daily basis as a misogynist, sexist pig, That is the real story here.
Instead of lewd, how about
"vulgar and misogynist"?!
Read an insightful column about all this that highlighted the fact that thoughts and actions like Trump's are part of the rape culture.
That's what makes it especially disturbing -- and revealing!
"vulgar and misogynist"?!
Read an insightful column about all this that highlighted the fact that thoughts and actions like Trump's are part of the rape culture.
That's what makes it especially disturbing -- and revealing!
1
Susan, it is wishful thinking that this will be the end of the old boys' club. Jerks abound.
2
This is the rape culture mindset. The man uses his power (money, fame or even just physical strength) to take what he wants without asking. Then he says "she wanted it." Donald Trump is a sexual predator, plain and simple. The press needs to call it what it is and not beat around the bush.
7
Great article and analysis!
It is unfortunate that the women seen or mentioned in this sordid — would that have been a better choice than “extremely lewd”? — video recording will likely get unwelcome attention from the press and the public as a result of its airing.
It is unfortunate that the women seen or mentioned in this sordid — would that have been a better choice than “extremely lewd”? — video recording will likely get unwelcome attention from the press and the public as a result of its airing.
3
I only wish that this article was written by a man. Really, does anyone in this country think that Donnie the Trump should even come close to the White House?
3
Billy Bush does the pimping bit twice on video when he again asks her to make contact with Drumpf by walking in the middle all the while Donald is grinning like a Cheshire Cat. It is nauseating to watch. And the truly sweet revenge against the old boys club will be to win and win big for Hillary Clinton. That is the way to ensure that hopefully our daughters won't get to watch such a perverse freak show in the future. So be sickened by this, sure, but like Obama said, vote!
29
Thank you. This is a perceptive and deadly accurate reading of how this scene works. And a playwright or scriptwriter seeking to condense the truth about the world women must inhabit into a single scene could not have done a better job than Trump himself has done.
14
Why I finally decided to move to Mexico last year....the hypocrisy from both the left and the right.
Nailed it.
5
The reason there was a 10 hour delay between the release of the tape and this misogynist's statement was not to carefully craft his response. Instead, it probably took that long to beg and plead with him to convince him to "apologize" at all. It was actually an apolattack on the Clintons. I am confident that he did not even understand why this is an issue at all.
5
This IS the real Donald Trump.. Can we all agree on that?
4
Bush is as bad as Trump. His career in the mainstream was apparently already in doubt and now this. NBC should dump him and he should go work for one of those odious scandal sites since he is so comfortable dealing in a sleezy world.
3
While nothing more can possibly be added about the vulgarity and supreme unfitness of this man to be President, more critical reckoning is due for those politicians who've made their bed with the candidate. The facts have long been in regarding the peril that would come to our nation as a result of a Trump presidency - yet line up they have - Paul Ryan, Mitch McConnell, et. al prostituting themselves - surrendering principles and values that are larger than a political part and speak to our very way of life. I'm so very tired of "our way" at any cost - Govern for ALL the people - You've certainly demonstrated the ability to compromise given your support of this abhorrent soulless man, summon the courage to do the same when governing with your Democratic colleagues.
13
This is not just about women: this is a world
View. It characterizes Trump's view of nature, minorities, smaller countries, animals, environment, small business. He is a domineering, power-hungry, rapacious tyrant. He must be stopped.
View. It characterizes Trump's view of nature, minorities, smaller countries, animals, environment, small business. He is a domineering, power-hungry, rapacious tyrant. He must be stopped.
42
Can't believe any women with a healthy self-esteem will vote for Trump. Any man that thinks this is appropriate behavior should let their wives, daughters, sisters work for a boss like that. After all it's just locker room behavior from a 60 year old.
6
This incident reveals Trump to be more than "King of the Old Boys Club." He describes himself in a way that suggests he is a sexual predator; not only objectifying women, but also sexually assaulting them.
17
It has been a bad week for Trump. He is putting on a show trying to seem Presidential, but behind the scenes he is a perv and a creep.
7
CNN headline was "Can Trump recover". The real question is - should he ?
2
With this one revelation, the Right would be capable of re-taking the House. They would keep this story alive and in everyones' mind until election day. Does the Left know how to do that?
Democrats....well we can summon up some righteous indignation...with bluster!
Democrats....well we can summon up some righteous indignation...with bluster!
1
I find children to be the best judge of character. They haven’t been polluted by society YET! Look at differences between how children and babies interact with President Obama or Hillary Clinton vs Donald Trump. Children have no problem showing how they feel.
Trump on his own child:
Trump on “The View” “I don’t think Ivanka would do that [pose for nude photographs] inside the magazine,” Trump says, speaking for his daughter. “Although she does have a very nice figure. I’ve said that if Ivanka weren’t my daughter, perhaps, I would be dating her.”
And then, as the words he had just spoken formed meaning in his mind, Trump asked: “Is that terrible?”
Joy Behar asks “Who are you, Woody Allen?” Everyone laughs, including Donald Trump, who remarks “That’s very good.”
“He told Rolling Stone that if he weren’t happily married and his daughter’s father, he’d — well, he didn’t finish the thought, but you can guess what he meant.".
According to the experts, there are mainly two types of incest: Overt and Covert
Overt incest is presently defined as obviously sexual in nature. There’s no doubt that something sexual is going on, at least for the abuser anyway. It may or may not, include full blown intercourse.
On the other hand, Covert incest is subtle, and may include things like sexual jokes, showing photos or paintings of nudes to a child, or touching the child in a way as to make appear “accidental”
Trump on his own child:
Trump on “The View” “I don’t think Ivanka would do that [pose for nude photographs] inside the magazine,” Trump says, speaking for his daughter. “Although she does have a very nice figure. I’ve said that if Ivanka weren’t my daughter, perhaps, I would be dating her.”
And then, as the words he had just spoken formed meaning in his mind, Trump asked: “Is that terrible?”
Joy Behar asks “Who are you, Woody Allen?” Everyone laughs, including Donald Trump, who remarks “That’s very good.”
“He told Rolling Stone that if he weren’t happily married and his daughter’s father, he’d — well, he didn’t finish the thought, but you can guess what he meant.".
According to the experts, there are mainly two types of incest: Overt and Covert
Overt incest is presently defined as obviously sexual in nature. There’s no doubt that something sexual is going on, at least for the abuser anyway. It may or may not, include full blown intercourse.
On the other hand, Covert incest is subtle, and may include things like sexual jokes, showing photos or paintings of nudes to a child, or touching the child in a way as to make appear “accidental”
7
Look at that video again. What's positive about that is the way Ms. Zucker handled the situation: there's never a break in her easy self-confidence as a beautiful woman in complete charge of things. And if Trump, or that twerp Bush, had come on to her, he'd have taken a serious shot to the ego. Nice going.
5
Good commentary. Personally, I find the "it" comment almost as disturbing as the grab the p**** remark. Of course that's how some people come to abuse others -- by objectifying and dehumanizing them.
The remarks should not surprise anyone who has spent time with men in locker rooms, boardrooms, or bars. At the same time, it should be clear that many men do not think, speak, or behave in this way. I've always been very attracted to women, but as people, human beings -- friends as well as lovers. I've always found language such as Trump used yesterday to be disturbing and depressing.
I rather think the "old boys" will have to die off; a leopard can't change its spots. But at least it ought to finally be clear to everyone (except I suppose some of the old boys) that a vote for Trump is a vote for a return to a dark and shameful past.
The remarks should not surprise anyone who has spent time with men in locker rooms, boardrooms, or bars. At the same time, it should be clear that many men do not think, speak, or behave in this way. I've always been very attracted to women, but as people, human beings -- friends as well as lovers. I've always found language such as Trump used yesterday to be disturbing and depressing.
I rather think the "old boys" will have to die off; a leopard can't change its spots. But at least it ought to finally be clear to everyone (except I suppose some of the old boys) that a vote for Trump is a vote for a return to a dark and shameful past.
8
Everyone is not perfect, the US election being driven the dirty campaign. The voter wants to know who has the best policies for the national security, economic management, the deep debt is up to $23 trillion, the terrorist threat...the election is closer, the second debate but the scandals of Hillary are Benghazi, Clinton Foundation, corruption and the others, actually Wikileaks is the most stress of an unhealthy candidate Hillary, those couldn't change the people mind. The old story of Donald Trump passed more than 10 years ago, now the Democrat and the left media recycle as the new tactic in the last month of the White House race. While Hillary Clinton couldn't dodge the scandals, nevertheless the weak policies and her migrant policy raised the grave concern of the most US people, she promises to get 65,000 (550% more than Obama). The Europe is shattered by the asylum seeker and the terrors occurred there, even the US...those cause the voters stay away from Hillary. The smear campaign has no effect, but the Democrat has used it as the outstanding strategy. They use a common cold or remedy medicine cure cancer, so the smear campaign proves the weak policies likely using a bowl covers up an elephant.
Hoa Minh Truong.
(author of 5 books, Vietnam veteran)
Hoa Minh Truong.
(author of 5 books, Vietnam veteran)
3
"Lewd can be fine, if whatever it is describing is consensual and no minors are involved. The staff members of New York magazine got a lot closer with a tweet containing a link to the tape: 'Extremely disturbing,' they called it."
This is a key point. What Donald Trump described on that tape is, by any reasonable standard, sexual assault. Unfortunately, Trump's defenders will try to spin the reaction to the tape as "liberal pearl-clutching" and the true-believers are likely to buy it.
This is a key point. What Donald Trump described on that tape is, by any reasonable standard, sexual assault. Unfortunately, Trump's defenders will try to spin the reaction to the tape as "liberal pearl-clutching" and the true-believers are likely to buy it.
3
What! This is surprising in some way. How is this different than the rest of the GOP? Trump is the "Truth in Advertising" version of the Republican Party. There aren't any long scientific names for the ingredients inside disguising the bad elements of the product. There aren't any pretty labels on the front making the cow pie inside look like it must be the most wonderful product inside. There is no confusion of how much the container actually holds because the bag hasn't been inflated to make the bag look fuller than it is. Trump is the in-your-face, arrogant, superior, aggressive, super rich, misogynistic, "Your Fired", person, just another human being, who "really" is the Republican Party. The rest of the republican party just doesn't want to be seen that way because that is what narcissist do...they want to be seen as being good, when they aren't, while projecting the worst of themselves onto others. Unless of course you're taking about Trump projecting his tongue into some unsuspecting woman's mouth. Anyone need a Tic Tac.
6
I almost feel sorry for his wives, daughters and female employees, but then again, they are enablers of his behavior, so its time they joined forces to denounce him. Maybe that will give GOP women politicos the courage they lack to do similarly.
7
Peek into a 7th-grade boys' locker-room; that will reveal everything one needs to know about what drives old boys' clubs.
4
"Wrecking ball that takes down the club for good?" If only. I've seen and heard this stuff my entire working life; it most certainly didn't go out of style in the 70s, and it won't now.
10
It's not just Trump. It's every republican candidate that has supported him. They all have to answer for this now.
33
Married 60 year-old "boys" with 5 kids talk like that?
4
Finally, someone has dissected Trump on more than a political level. Everyone and everything is an 'it' to Trump; to be monetized, to be dehumanized while politicized for his own aggrandizement. But please be aware that this is more than just a case of arrested development; Trump is a prototype of an American fascist.
35
This tragedy presents a tremendous opportunity for the Democratic Party. Trump is the old boys club. Trump is also the product of the GOP because the GOP is truly the embodiment of the old boys club.
The Democrats should develop ads that list all of the sexual harassment suits ongoing against major GOP players including those at Fox News. List all of their anti-women policies that transfer ownership of their reproductive organs to the state. At the same time, keep playing excerpts from Trump's vulgar comments, all of them, not just these latest ones. Then slap a picture on the screen of every GOP Senator up for office. Tie it all together with a big ribbon.
Now is the time to go for the jugular. Trump is not an outlier. He is the GOP. We have the proof. They selected him.
The Democrats should develop ads that list all of the sexual harassment suits ongoing against major GOP players including those at Fox News. List all of their anti-women policies that transfer ownership of their reproductive organs to the state. At the same time, keep playing excerpts from Trump's vulgar comments, all of them, not just these latest ones. Then slap a picture on the screen of every GOP Senator up for office. Tie it all together with a big ribbon.
Now is the time to go for the jugular. Trump is not an outlier. He is the GOP. We have the proof. They selected him.
175
What a beautiful affirmation of American Democracy it would be if all all the Americans Trump and his supporters have insulted (women, immigrants, Muslims, Jews, the disabled, blacks, union workers........), join together, supported by those men he has not (yet) insulted, and hand Trump a huuuuuuuge defeat in November.
(Even sweeter if his Republican Party enablers are swept out of power by losing control of the Senate and House.)
(Even sweeter if his Republican Party enablers are swept out of power by losing control of the Senate and House.)
237
Well at least then the rest of the globe would know that Americans had not all collectively lost their minds
That's "a yuuuuuuge defeat"!
Trump's "musty sleaziness" is just part of the patriarchal order that comes with the religionist idea that some invisible sky god created Adam first, in god's image, and that woman was merely an afterthought who brought mankind's downfall by listening to a talking snake. Pastor Darrell Scott, one of Trump's religious advisors even said that it's okay, because the lewd comments occurred before he got right with Jesus.
Pull the plug on patriarchy.
Pull the plug on patriarchy.
412
Absolutely. And unfortunately, it's not that musty. This stuff still happens all time. It's just less overt and generally acceptable, and has taken on different forms.
Do you honestly believe that the origin of patriarchal "musty sleaziness" is in the biblical creation story? I promise you, patriarchy was in place in times that predated the biblical material, and exists everywhere, even in places not dependent on the biblical tradition. Maybe don't try to shoehorn atheism into every discussion.
You're kidding, right? You're blaming Donald's behaviour on the Judao-Christian faith? You know the same passage you cite in Genesis describes woman as "helper" to man --- and uses the exact same word that is used to say that God is a "helper" to us. It implies that the woman knows more, sees more, has power. And the word Adam means human, not male person. We are created in God's image male aand femaile according to the bible. Donald has to answer for himself, as do all men who behave this way. Lets put responsibility where it belongs.
1
Spot on, Ms. Dominus! I had exactly the same response as you with one addition - there was a woman named Nancy on the bus and the two men were also apparently trying to impress her. It would be interesting to know her real thoughts when this conversation took place. One would hope she was thinking, "What pigs." But the sad fact is that women who wanted to keep their jobs often have to put up with this kind of disgusting behavior or be called lesbians or ice queen or something equally crude and distasteful.
The Con Don said "Roger Ailes is my friend" when the king of hate and sexual deviance was ousted from fox so-called news. I have a feeling his closest associates are slapping him on his back for being such a "man".
This is why women and the men who love them and find this kind of behavior unacceptable MUST vote for Ms. Hillary Rodham Clinton and other qualified, socially conscious women for every office they seek. This is why we MUST pass the Equal Rights Amendment to OUR Constitution now. This is why girls/women - and boys/men MUST speak up when they encounter predatory behavior.
It is NOT acceptable at any level.
The Con Don said "Roger Ailes is my friend" when the king of hate and sexual deviance was ousted from fox so-called news. I have a feeling his closest associates are slapping him on his back for being such a "man".
This is why women and the men who love them and find this kind of behavior unacceptable MUST vote for Ms. Hillary Rodham Clinton and other qualified, socially conscious women for every office they seek. This is why we MUST pass the Equal Rights Amendment to OUR Constitution now. This is why girls/women - and boys/men MUST speak up when they encounter predatory behavior.
It is NOT acceptable at any level.
443
To njglea.
It's my opinion that calling someone a lesbian should not be seen as crude or distasteful, but perhaps as inaccurate. Many lesbians prefer that title. Please give it some thought.
It's my opinion that calling someone a lesbian should not be seen as crude or distasteful, but perhaps as inaccurate. Many lesbians prefer that title. Please give it some thought.
1
Nancy was not on the bus. The "boys" were talking about Nancy O'Dell, Billy Bush's cohost on Insider at the time.
Don't you see that ms Hillary rodham Clinton made exactly this behavior acceptable, through public support of her husband's identical behavior and lies?
You're right, it's not acceptable. From anyone in power.
This country is dying for real leadership.
You're right, it's not acceptable. From anyone in power.
This country is dying for real leadership.
This sordid episode simply brings back to me the memories and emotions of a difficult adolescence growing up in this late 60s. It reflects the objectifying attitudes and total lack of consideration for how male conduct affects female sex.
When I look at my nieces and nephews and how they grew up under a different dynamic where women were first friends, then then objects of affection, it seems light-years away from a certain adolescent "meat market" attitude Trump never shed.
As many said here, trump never seems to have evolved beyond a certain age group, somewhere between age 14 and 17. He continues to live out the fantasies of youth as well as the crudeness that youth can display.
It also reflects the values, if you can call them that, that begin driving Trump when he started out in business with his entitled adolescent mentality.
Entitlement. Crudeness. Total disregard for how behavior affects others. A worship of riches and celebrity status, that turns the stomach, as there is nothing else in there.
Then viewing the presidency as the ultimate feather in his cap, a prize to be won rather than a genuine desire to help middle class America.
Self-absorption, lack of of inhibition, the inability to admit mistakes are not the qualities this country needs to solve our biggest problems year--or ever.
When I look at my nieces and nephews and how they grew up under a different dynamic where women were first friends, then then objects of affection, it seems light-years away from a certain adolescent "meat market" attitude Trump never shed.
As many said here, trump never seems to have evolved beyond a certain age group, somewhere between age 14 and 17. He continues to live out the fantasies of youth as well as the crudeness that youth can display.
It also reflects the values, if you can call them that, that begin driving Trump when he started out in business with his entitled adolescent mentality.
Entitlement. Crudeness. Total disregard for how behavior affects others. A worship of riches and celebrity status, that turns the stomach, as there is nothing else in there.
Then viewing the presidency as the ultimate feather in his cap, a prize to be won rather than a genuine desire to help middle class America.
Self-absorption, lack of of inhibition, the inability to admit mistakes are not the qualities this country needs to solve our biggest problems year--or ever.
1039
Unfortunately, even women in their 20s today are all too familiar with the old boys club. The difference is the old boys are actually old, like Trump.
3
Mothers, daughters, wives, sisters. I've always wondered why the women in the lives of male fundamentalists are silent.
We are those women. American women.
We are those women. American women.
3
Sure makes Barack and Hillary look good, doesn't it? Both are people of thoughtful (usually) gracious speech. How blessed we've been to have eight years of Barack Obama. How I hope we get to have eight of Hillary Clinton. I don't know if that would give the Republican Party time to grow up but it might at least give them a start in that direction.
12