If the investors don't find it worthwhile to build the stadium with THEIR money, why would it be a good bet for the taxpayers? And why should ordinary Las Vegas citizens subsidize billionaires or mitigate their risks -- especially when they get no share of profits? Seriously, if someone offered me a deal like these magnates are offering Las Vegas, I'd assume it was a scam.
13
If you can afford a team, you can pay for the stadium. It's a travesty that poor working stiffs will foot the tab for billionaire's palaces that they won't even be able to afford to go to.
15
In Minneapolis citizens are stuck paying ~$300 million for the vikings stadium while the team's net worth went up dramatically by at least this amount without the owner's putting any or much money in (the nfl and the seat license fees covered the remaining costs). Now there is this ugly stadium that is not very functional. Furthermore as part of the sales pitch, politicians promised the owner's a MLS soccer team in the stadium - and in keeping with the dislike for massive indoor, plastic turf covered fields for MLS teams, the MLS team has gone elsewhere to its own stadium. I say Nevada should vote no and save their money for schools and other programs that would develop the Nevada economy.
12
This will be funny to watch... a conservative GOP governor that has continuously slammed the federal govt. for "picking winners and losers" is now in the same situation. Moreover, what ever happened to getting govt. out of the way and let the free market rule the day... hypocrisy at its finest.
Finally, there has yet to be one peer-reviewed study that proves a net positive financial gain for any city/county/state that has funded a stadium.
Finally, there has yet to be one peer-reviewed study that proves a net positive financial gain for any city/county/state that has funded a stadium.
18
If the state is going to pony up $750m, it should, like any investor, get equity in the business. Assuming that the team, with the new stadium, will be worth about $3b, the state should receive 25% ownership. Otherwise, it is a terrible investment for the state to put $750m into a business with all positive returns going to a bunch of billionaires.
20
no..
a thousand times: no
if this proposition is sooooo beneficial,
let the private sector pay for it.
tax payer money,
even all of those travelers visiting Clark County,
should not be a part of the calculus.
this is simply welfare for the wealthy,
and a pox on all of the common folk.
this decision should be determined via a referendum,
and not left up to a bought-and-paid-for "legislature".
sigh...
16
For some of us, this may be a case of NIMBY (not in my back yard).
My condolences to Las Vegas, but hopefully having an NFL team in Las Vegas will prevent Salt Lake from getting a franchise. Better your tax dollars being wasted than mine.
I know it is a selfish position, but aren't all NIMBY positions selfish?
My condolences to Las Vegas, but hopefully having an NFL team in Las Vegas will prevent Salt Lake from getting a franchise. Better your tax dollars being wasted than mine.
I know it is a selfish position, but aren't all NIMBY positions selfish?
10
Casino billionaire (actually, 31 he's worth, to be exact) Adelson is so determined to get this stadium that instead of offering to finance it entirely himself, he ridiculously overpaid $175 million for our local newspaper so he could run daily headlines banging it into our heads over & over why we should all clamor to use our tax dollars for this dazzling new showplace. When the comments sections below these articles lined up one after another AGAINST this horrendous give-away when there are so many other pressing needs for our tax money, the newspaper shut down the comments sections.
20
Now we know who the real welfare queens are.
28
It seems to me that Roger Goodell could pony up a full year of his current obscene salary and never notice that it was gone - and that's just for starters. At a time when a large segment of our southeast coast is being battered by Hurricane Matthew, and all projections suggest that our Southwest will be hit by epic droughts in the foreseeable future, it is beyond comprehension that this topic is even under marginal consideration by Sandoval. These billionaires are the ultimate "takers" - something Paul Ryan and his right wing demagogic ilk studiously ignore in their perpetual shaming of the impoverished in the nation. Our infrastructure goes begging for long term investment and rejuvenation, but here we are, once again contemplating permitting the NFL and its oligarchy to threaten and assault the rest of the taxpayers in any given region, and waltz away with their platinum pockets lined with yet more precious taxpayer lucre, while the taxpayers are stuck with the ultimate bill. To use the Las Vegas vernacular: sorry, NO DICE!
27
Dear Las Vegas: Don't do it, not for this owner (with a long-checkered family history) and not for this team. If your city council magically votes for it, and without a public referendum -- then do yourselves a favor and kick them out of office. Los Angeles citizens said no to these "arena / stadiums" when the Lakers/Kings decided to move to a new home in downtown L.A, and after the Raiders blew through SoCal taking tax-payer's money with them. The new L.A. Rams-world is all private with construction started, and I can't wait to go as "their guest" for the day when it's all finished. If Mark Davis can't/won't pay for it, don't invite him in.
17
So is this what Trump meant when said that if the government collected more taxes they'd only squander it?
No, I'm sure he's all for this corporate welfare. Probably thinks it's 'smart.'
No, I'm sure he's all for this corporate welfare. Probably thinks it's 'smart.'
3
"In a country where football is king, no one — particularly not local politicians — wants to be responsible for passing up an N.F.L. franchise."
Why? You think all those football fans will come out and vote against you over it? Unlikely.
Why? You think all those football fans will come out and vote against you over it? Unlikely.
3
Build it and ''they'' will come.
Of course in this case, which is all to common, we the tax payer build it through socializing the profits for billionaires. They then charge us to enter the structure we just aid for while gouging us for warm beer and cold hot dogs.
What is wrong with this picture ?
We keep painting it over and over again thinking we are Picassos, but we are barely finger painting.
Of course in this case, which is all to common, we the tax payer build it through socializing the profits for billionaires. They then charge us to enter the structure we just aid for while gouging us for warm beer and cold hot dogs.
What is wrong with this picture ?
We keep painting it over and over again thinking we are Picassos, but we are barely finger painting.
4
This explains clearly the difference between the wealthy and the rest of us. In sports, as in businesses, you socialize your risks and expenses, and privatize the profits.
In the companies I've worked for, and I'm in middle management, executives make exponentially more than their employees, yet they're able to expense so much more - rarely even paying for their own meals.
Where is the outrage from our small-government Republicans that our tax dollars shouldn't be spent like this?
Sounds like a done deal in Vegas, though, where it's being pitched as other peoples' money - heck - that's as good as getting a free stadium, if the suckers coming to gamble are paying for it!
In the companies I've worked for, and I'm in middle management, executives make exponentially more than their employees, yet they're able to expense so much more - rarely even paying for their own meals.
Where is the outrage from our small-government Republicans that our tax dollars shouldn't be spent like this?
Sounds like a done deal in Vegas, though, where it's being pitched as other peoples' money - heck - that's as good as getting a free stadium, if the suckers coming to gamble are paying for it!
8
I am not 100 % certain that gamblers are all that enthusiastic over the sports they bet on. Action is action. They may be knowledgeable but only as to how it relates to the point spread. Las Vegas is big enough population wise to support an NFL team but there are also lots of other diversions in Vegas. What happens when the next recession hits, and season ticket demand plummets with hosing prices and loss of casino jobs?
There's another fear factor no one has mentioned as well - the concussion crisis is just now beginning to rile the waters of the NFL as well as all levels of American football. I don't have a crystal ball, but I suspect there's going to be some rough sledding ahead for the NFL. Hard to say what this will mean in terms of keeping the seats full in Vegas.
There's another fear factor no one has mentioned as well - the concussion crisis is just now beginning to rile the waters of the NFL as well as all levels of American football. I don't have a crystal ball, but I suspect there's going to be some rough sledding ahead for the NFL. Hard to say what this will mean in terms of keeping the seats full in Vegas.
2
Beware of Raider's bearing gifts. The Oakland/Los Angeles/Oakland Raiders and the Davis family are known for being loyal only to themselves. They will ask for the sky and then every few years want more. If they don't get what they want they will threaten to leave. This is their modus operandi. Do not believe Mark Davis. I have watched this game go on for 40 years. This is just another example of welfare for billionaires.
Here in Sacramento we have put up millions to build a new basketball stadium for the Sacramento Kings A mediocre team at best. (Sorry Kings fans I call them as I see them.) It will also be use as an event center as well. Whether this will actually re-vitalize the downtown in the long run or will be just another while elephant remains to be seen.
I am willing to bet that if the Kings continue to be mediocre the people of Sacramento will start compiling about the high price of everything - parking, restaurants, and other entertainment venues. The city has already raised parking rates and the downtown meters will be in effect until 10PM on many nights.
Beware of the boondoggle Las Vegas.
Here in Sacramento we have put up millions to build a new basketball stadium for the Sacramento Kings A mediocre team at best. (Sorry Kings fans I call them as I see them.) It will also be use as an event center as well. Whether this will actually re-vitalize the downtown in the long run or will be just another while elephant remains to be seen.
I am willing to bet that if the Kings continue to be mediocre the people of Sacramento will start compiling about the high price of everything - parking, restaurants, and other entertainment venues. The city has already raised parking rates and the downtown meters will be in effect until 10PM on many nights.
Beware of the boondoggle Las Vegas.
4
Here we have an industry which permanently injures it's employees and practices extortion on whole cities and states to an extent that would make a mafia don envious.
An industry that dupes it fans with the false promise that it represents their region and so call sport. An industry that colludes with the cable television industry to bundle their product in such a way that every cable television subscriber must underwrite their industry whether or not they are sports fans.
In short if it weren't called a so called "sport" it would be labeled a criminal enterprise and broken up under antitrust laws.
It is time that Los Vegas shows the NFL some of the backbone that Boston showed to a similar so-called "sports" cartel when Boston rejected the scam offered it by the international olympic committee and reject the stadium.
An industry that dupes it fans with the false promise that it represents their region and so call sport. An industry that colludes with the cable television industry to bundle their product in such a way that every cable television subscriber must underwrite their industry whether or not they are sports fans.
In short if it weren't called a so called "sport" it would be labeled a criminal enterprise and broken up under antitrust laws.
It is time that Los Vegas shows the NFL some of the backbone that Boston showed to a similar so-called "sports" cartel when Boston rejected the scam offered it by the international olympic committee and reject the stadium.
7
File this under 1-percenters fleecing the middle class in Vegas. Why can't the players and owners who will be making ka-ching$ on this stadium pay for it? Remember the lesson of the great recession - if YOU can't pay for it, don't buy it.
12
Better them than us. So far Oakland has been unwilling to bribe the Raiders to stay by investing public funds in a new stadium for them. There is far better things for Libby Schaaf and the Oakland government to spend money on and luckily they realize it.
8
"The Raiders want a new, 65,000-seat stadium as part of the deal."
Has a sports team's name ever been more wickedly appropriate?
Has a sports team's name ever been more wickedly appropriate?
7
The idea that cash-strapped states and municipalities should pony up $millions to help pay for stadiums for a $mega-millions league and $mega-millions NFL owners is simply obscene! What an utter misuse of public monies!
Let these profiteers at least pay for their own ultra-violence Coliseums!
Let these profiteers at least pay for their own ultra-violence Coliseums!
10
Instead of paying for it with tax dollars that would have gone to education or elsewhere, put it straight to the public asking them to contribute directly to the stadium - it would likely fall short, and then the private investors can either put in more or try to find fools elsewhere. St. Louis should be an example of why putting up public money is a bad idea - the stadium was state of the art for a few years and then the owner wanted a new stadium, paid for by the public, or he'd take his football elsewhere and had a clause in the contract allowing him to do so. A city putting up money should insist on a clause that doesn't allow the team to go until the city has gotten it's money back including the basic interest on its investment.
Personally, I hate the new stadiums/regime - non-stop noise in between plays (music blaring, ads blaring, anouncer blaring), scoreboards that share space with ads, flashing lights all over, the stupid cams sliding around on cables - and the high ticket/concessions/parking prices that go along with them, but still bathrooms that are an inch deep in 'liquid' and huge waste of time getting to and from the game, and all the 'security' at the gate which is more about not letting people in with their own food and drink. I don't go to games anymore for that reason alone.
Personally, I hate the new stadiums/regime - non-stop noise in between plays (music blaring, ads blaring, anouncer blaring), scoreboards that share space with ads, flashing lights all over, the stupid cams sliding around on cables - and the high ticket/concessions/parking prices that go along with them, but still bathrooms that are an inch deep in 'liquid' and huge waste of time getting to and from the game, and all the 'security' at the gate which is more about not letting people in with their own food and drink. I don't go to games anymore for that reason alone.
7
There's little or no hope of stopping the NFL juggernaut when it comes to a stadium. I hope the people of Las Vegas enjoy it, because they will be paying for it in many ways for years to come. Our political leaders in Minnesota, knowing that the proposal to build a new stadium for the Vikings would never pass the mandated-by-law public referendum, did an end-run around it to get the stadium built. Viking fans, of course loved it. And every time there has been a game in the stadium this year, the sports commentators gush about how wonderful it is. Our stadium "only" cost 1.1 billion. But that's a lot of money that could have gone for children's education or health or so many other things that are actually important. I've been a Vikings fan for many many years, but spending the money we did on the stadium, to enrich the NFL owners, was a deal with the devil. It still disgusts me.
11
Taxpayers who subsidize a stadium for a private business should get free tickets to the games until their taxes have been recovered, with interest.
11
This summarizes how I feel about any publicly financed privately own sporting entity, with the ultimate kicker being the absence of ability to get a return on public investment. What bothers me deeply is the sense of hopelessness. Is the new, and readily accepted, reality that one one billionaire who can control local politics with political funding and subvert the preferences of the many? If most Nevadan's don't want a stadium put it to a referendum. This is insanity.
9
Why don't Las Vegas and Nevada offer to build one of the major automobile manufacturers a state-of-the-art factory and allow them to keep all the profits it generates? At least they'll be rewarded with substantial year round direct and indirect employment and tax revenue. Not much there for billionaires and feather-nesting politicians, however.
2
Simple. Add a clause in the NFL contract that states that the team can't relocate to another city until the stadium is fully paid for and all public bonds are paid back. Then watch how fast this "deal" will fall apart.
1
Wisconsin's Governor Scott Walker and his fellow Republican state legislators just cut $250 million from the University of Wisconsin's budget and gave it to the Milwaukee Bucks owner for a new stadium. Again, the WI taxpayers get fleeced while the owners get all the benefits.
Make the fans who use the stadium pay 100% for the stadium and infrastructure in support of the stadium.
Make the fans who use the stadium pay 100% for the stadium and infrastructure in support of the stadium.
What's the big hoopla? In America, any fight for dollars for education versus dollars for football has a predetermined outcome: football wins. Maybe instead of shipping a bus filled of cheerleaders to Vegas, the Raiders should have shipped a bus full of baked goods and held a bake sale, just the PTAs everywhere have to do. And the thought that "the state" is paying is nonsense. It will be the local taxpayers and visiting taxpayers money that yet again provide welfare benefits to multi-millionaire NFL owners and players in their desperate quest to become billionaires.
1
I don't understand why there needs to be a "special" legislative session for this bill a MONTH before elections. Most people I talk to in Nevada would love a pro team to come to the state but no one wants to pay extra taxes to fund this stadium. Why not let us elect people who will vote the way we want them to vote, instead of hiding behind a special session for legislators that wont even be in office in a few months.
Also, it's been rumored that part of the reason Adelson bought the Las Vegas Sun, was to prevent the paper from negatively covering this deal. It all stinks and Nevada tax payers are going to be paying again for the hubris of rich entertainment moguls.
Also, it's been rumored that part of the reason Adelson bought the Las Vegas Sun, was to prevent the paper from negatively covering this deal. It all stinks and Nevada tax payers are going to be paying again for the hubris of rich entertainment moguls.
1
To honor bad business decision makers, the Oakland Raiders franchise should change its name to the Las Vegas Trumps.
3
I'm guessing that Ms. Bronson is not a football fan, nor are most of the commenters.
That said, I despise cities' habit of paying for things with new taxes on rental cars and hotel rooms. It's a ploy to get locals to vote yes, and we locals pay for it on every vacation.
That said, I despise cities' habit of paying for things with new taxes on rental cars and hotel rooms. It's a ploy to get locals to vote yes, and we locals pay for it on every vacation.
3
It's really very simple. If the team is owned privately (as most teams are) then that ownership should pay for the stadium. If the stadium is publicly funded (local or state government) then the team should be publicly owned by the community. Why should St Louis still be paying off a stadium built or a team the owner took away?
1
Because they were 30-year bonds that can't paid off early.
So the state will use money earmarked for education to build a stadium for millionaire players and billionaire owners. And of course the GOP will continue to bemoan the sad state of American education. The election of Trump will merely confirm the continued decline of our country.
1
Meanwhile American opera houses, including the world famous Metropolitan Opera, continue to struggle with unsustainable costs.
If only the taxpayer could help out a bit more with arts and culture, instead of handsomely subsidizing gladiator contests.
If only the taxpayer could help out a bit more with arts and culture, instead of handsomely subsidizing gladiator contests.
2
There are few issues that encapsulate what is wrong with America better than new football stadiums: Billionaire team owners being subsidized by taxpayers to build luxurious stadiums that are then too expensive for the average taxpayer to attend. All of this for a legal monopoly that pays no taxes. When will the American people wake up?
3
Sports are for the stupid to play and the drunk to watch. But, Stadia are for the corrupt to build!
2
As an Oakland resident and voter, I am so proud that our mayor, Libby Schaff, told the Davis family to forget about public financing for a new stadium in Oakland. Let them go to LV and good riddance. The taxpayers of the East Bay are still on the hook for millions in general obligation bonds that Al Davis extorted from the county to pay for horrible "improvements" to the Oakland Coliseum. As in LV, this is money that could be paying for schools, police, firefighters, libraries; the things that cities should be doing with tax revenues. All for eight home games a year.
It astounds me every time that the voters of a city can't learn from the examples of places like Oakland, Santa Clara and St. Louis.
It astounds me every time that the voters of a city can't learn from the examples of places like Oakland, Santa Clara and St. Louis.
4
Adelson is worth $28B and he is like 140 years old...well he can chuck in the last $750MM himself. Chump change to him and he won't last long enough spend all those billions anyway. A gift to the city of Las Vegas--Adelson Stadium.
2
If Adelson and Goodell are for it, that's reason enough to oppose it.
4
If Sheldon Adelson thinks the stadium is a great idea, let him pay for it. He can certainly afford it.
Besides, aren't there already plenty of entertainment options in Las Vegas?
Besides, aren't there already plenty of entertainment options in Las Vegas?
2
Owning an NFL (or NBA, MLB, etc) is a bucket list for rich guys (the ones playing the game of "he who has the most toys, wins"). To allow true integrity of that game, it should include owning the stadium, too.
It seems that basic economics of those franchises provides the answer for the owners to sate their egos, namely:
Given the "value" of NFL franchises, it seems like they could be used as collateral for construction loans for team stadiums in order to negate the need for public subsidies or other public support (such as the Santa Clara Stadium Authority provided for the 49er's Levi Stadium). (see: http://www.sfchronicle.com/opinion/editorials/article/Levi-s-Stadium-is-...
And, for those who argue that even the Santa Clara "solution" is acceptable -- seeing the empty seats in Levi during last night's 49er-Cardinal fiasco -- I wonder how comfy the "Authority" is feeling now about recovering full value of its construction loan?
It seems that basic economics of those franchises provides the answer for the owners to sate their egos, namely:
Given the "value" of NFL franchises, it seems like they could be used as collateral for construction loans for team stadiums in order to negate the need for public subsidies or other public support (such as the Santa Clara Stadium Authority provided for the 49er's Levi Stadium). (see: http://www.sfchronicle.com/opinion/editorials/article/Levi-s-Stadium-is-...
And, for those who argue that even the Santa Clara "solution" is acceptable -- seeing the empty seats in Levi during last night's 49er-Cardinal fiasco -- I wonder how comfy the "Authority" is feeling now about recovering full value of its construction loan?
1
Here in Minneapolis the taxpayers have been conned into providing funds to build a giant iceburg downtown as a shrine to the Vikings. Any owner, league, whatever, is welcome to build a new stadium, but with their own funds. Not only did the MN legislators withhold money promised to schools just a few years ago, the crammed this monstrosity down our throats and then acted shocked when Ziggy and his brother turned around and hit season ticket holders for a sizeable amount for seat licensing fees. And the naming rights to the building? The Vikings get that as well. We are told about all the wonderful jobs these stadiums bring but it simply isn't true in the long run. Very little stays local. And check the concessions the NFL requires to bring the Super Bowl to your town. Police protection? Free. Sales tax on ticket sales? Nope. I could justify these funds somewhat easier for soccer and baseball stadiums because there are significantly more games played at home and the locals benefit more. But even as a life long Red Sox fan, I would say no to public funds if the owners ever tried to replace Fenway (which wouldn't go over well for a few other reasons). If you think it's just me, ask Memphis residents how they feel about the arena the Grizzlies built. With public funds.
1
It's utterly ridiculous that tax payer dollars should go to fund football stadiums. The so-called benefits to the city rarely come. The owners are making billions each year--let them fund their own projects.
It is essentially income redistribution in the wrong direction. It's exactly the same as just handing them $750 million. For a team that completely sucks, no less.
Happened in Philly and we still have yet to reap the benefits. The fantasy that people will come and stay over in hotels and eat in fancy restaurants, for example, never materializes. These are football fans. They're already getting jacked for $12 beers, they're not going to add to the expense by staying over. Another LIE that the working family has to pay for. And for a tiny percentage of the populous who actually go to these stupid, brain-damage causing games.
As big a sham as the Olympics and it just keeps happening. Deplorable.
It is essentially income redistribution in the wrong direction. It's exactly the same as just handing them $750 million. For a team that completely sucks, no less.
Happened in Philly and we still have yet to reap the benefits. The fantasy that people will come and stay over in hotels and eat in fancy restaurants, for example, never materializes. These are football fans. They're already getting jacked for $12 beers, they're not going to add to the expense by staying over. Another LIE that the working family has to pay for. And for a tiny percentage of the populous who actually go to these stupid, brain-damage causing games.
As big a sham as the Olympics and it just keeps happening. Deplorable.
5
If a stadium is such a good deal, Mr. Adelson should put up all the money. Having taxpayers subsidize an industry that make immense profits is just crazy.
5
The NFL should be responsible for paying for these stadiums.
As a long time resident of Oakland, I'm the one "salivating" at the prospect of finally getting rid of that wretched franchise which has pillaged and plundered Oakland and Alameda County of hundreds-of-millions of dollars since its 1995 return. Now if only the A's will find a new home, we can finally demolish that abominable stadium and fill the space with residential and commercial properties that actually benefit the city and county.
And though I have genuine sympathy for the Nevada and Las Vegas taxpayers for the waste and deprivation this approaching plague ship will cause them, I can only say better them than us.
And though I have genuine sympathy for the Nevada and Las Vegas taxpayers for the waste and deprivation this approaching plague ship will cause them, I can only say better them than us.
2
No matter what data economists have gathered about the benefits -- or lack thereof -- of stadiums, you can be sure that building one in Las Vegas offers something heretofore unseen in America. At every game, thousands of suckers will pass by slot machines and will leave plenty of extra cash behind. Good for "the economy", not so good for the consumer.
I feel like the team name "Las Vegas Raiders" is a little on the nose.
thx, suckers
San Francisco managed to build an entire stadium for the Giants without any public money other than water connections and street improvements. It can be done - it just takes political will.
But PacBell Park is built on city land. It could not have been built on private land in the city. That is a huge financial contribution.
1
Republicans love taxes when it benefits their cronies.
2
Nevada, and specifically, Las Vegas has been and always will be a cesspool, with Adelson and the Goodmans continuing to make their daily deposits.
1
Rich people, owners and the NFL can pay for all stadiums. If it is as profitable as they believe they will make the investment. The cities and states that hand out the welfare to the rich should not be fooled. But, unfortunately, they have all been bought. There are very few permanent jobs or other economic benefits created by stadiums for the investment made. The revenue generated stays with the NFL and owners, not the city and state.
1
We taxpayers here in Cincinnati know all about large stadia for the wealthy. As a relatively small market, Cincinnati's political and business leaders have long believed that the city has big market stature because of the Reds and Bengals. These temples were built only after owners threatened to leave for places unknown unless taxpayers were forced to chip in. Residents ponied up millions for two stadiums on the Ohio River, and ticket prices keep rising. (Not to mention concession prices, with $11 beer and $8 rubber hot dogs).
Has the team's presence boosted Cincinnati's image and prestige? Dunno. The Reds just finished a second straight year in the division cellar, and the Bengals win and win until the playoffs, when they lose and lose. All we do know is that the folks who live here will be paying for the team's for years to come. Such a deal!
Has the team's presence boosted Cincinnati's image and prestige? Dunno. The Reds just finished a second straight year in the division cellar, and the Bengals win and win until the playoffs, when they lose and lose. All we do know is that the folks who live here will be paying for the team's for years to come. Such a deal!
1
That's what politicians do. They impose a tax on out of town visitors in the form of higher hotel/motel fees. The problem is that over time there will be fewer visitors to the city, less conventions, etc. . It isn't free. Vegas residents will end up paying for the shortfall in the form of higher prices all around them.
"Economists overwhelmingly agree that stadiums are not good economic investments for cities". That is the bottom line because city leaders, developers and media are too often caught up in the excitement of being part of the immense profits these stadiums generate and being free-loading "guests" of the BIG money behind the NFL.
The Green Bay Packers are owned by the City of Green Bay and money generated not only supports the team but enriches the city, county and state. That is the model that would work for society but the NFL has banned city-owned teams because they want all the money for themselves.
Good People of Las Vegas, do not be bamboozled by these greedy, self-serving money masters again.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Bay_Packers
The Green Bay Packers are owned by the City of Green Bay and money generated not only supports the team but enriches the city, county and state. That is the model that would work for society but the NFL has banned city-owned teams because they want all the money for themselves.
Good People of Las Vegas, do not be bamboozled by these greedy, self-serving money masters again.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Bay_Packers
30
It is likely that San Diego voters will not support building a new stadium for the Chargers. http://www.10news.com/sports/pre-election-poll-chargers-new-stadium-meas...
If the Oakland Raiders do not move to Las Vegas, the Chargers will - or to whatever city decides to spend public money to subsidize professional football.
If the Oakland Raiders do not move to Las Vegas, the Chargers will - or to whatever city decides to spend public money to subsidize professional football.
4
Why not fund it via a tax on sports betting?
4
Casino magnate Sheldon Adelson has offered $650 million, he *really* wants the Oakland Raiders in Las Vegas and his estimated personal wealth is $28 billion dollars. Which begs the question: if LV is such a fertile environ for an NFL franchise, why does't Mr. Adelson buy some land and build the stadium himself? Before any Nevadan votes for a publicly funded stadium in LV, they should talk to the people of Santa Clara, CA who helped finance the 49ers new stadium. Giving tax money to billionaires for their pet projects is a horrible waste of public funds.
3
The Raider name belongs in Oakland, maybe not so pure but certainly simple. It is a neighborhood thing. It is a street thing. Los Angeles found that out, and back they came. If the team moves to Las Vegas, the team can change its name to the Baubles, something more apropos.
1
Don’t worry. If after 5 years Davis comes up with a way to re-shaft Oakland and Alameda County, he’ll abandon LV’s “aging” stadium and sail the Raiders plague ship back to Oakland.
Maybe they could rename the team the Corporate Raiders?
24
Nobody "needs" a stadium!!! It's not fundamental to the survival of a city/area. However, if you want a name to resonate you have to invest in the extras which grant stature.
Denver in 1870 was stagnating because the intercontinental railroad had bypassed it to the north through, ugh, Wyoming. Denver business paid for a railroad line to the city and our fortunes were revitalized.
It will be interesting to see if the citizens of Nevada get 'railroaded'.
Denver in 1870 was stagnating because the intercontinental railroad had bypassed it to the north through, ugh, Wyoming. Denver business paid for a railroad line to the city and our fortunes were revitalized.
It will be interesting to see if the citizens of Nevada get 'railroaded'.
3
It is amazing how stupid people can be. Taxpayer funds to benefit millionaires. These stadiums never benefit the public. sheldon will probably be a part owner, but his casinos will benefit regardless. The people not so much.
5
Just like the GOP: no infrastructure spending unless it benefits the wealthy. Please look at who does your economic impact studies and what they base all of that money on. Most studies that involve hosting sports teams could the total amount of money generated by a team. But what they also found is that most that money comes from the nearby community and would be spent on other things if there was no team. So instead of an NFL game, they would go out to dinner, a movie, a show, shop local stores, etc. This is all a scam so some wealthy people can have a luxury box (with all those "braggin' rights") to entertain clients. To quote an old folk song, "When will they ever learn."
4
If the despicable Adelson so desperately wants a football team why doesn't he foot the entire bill as he is worth 28 billion, mostly off the suckers who bet in his casinos. And do they all love to bet on football since they all think they are experts. What is the value of the Raiders? Certainly more than Al Davis wants to pony up. The Kraft family turned the Patriots into one of the most monetarily valued in the NFL. (Who among us long term Pats fans would have thought it possible). When it came time to build a new stadium, Mr. Kraft did not stick MA with the bill. The state provided infrastructure and he provided the Stadium. His investment paid off big time with no debt for MA. Mr. Kraft is a sound honorable, businessman who is not possessed by greed. I feel sorry for Las Vegas if they get sucked into this bad deal.
3
Adelson is willing to spend big bucks on his pet issues, and projects.
For instance, the equally despicable Newt Gingrich, and the other Republican sycophants, who travel to Las Vegas, to kiss his ring, and render obeisance.
And let's not forget "Israel Hayom" an Israeli national Hebrew language free daily right wing newspaper, which supports the equally despicable Likud, and Netanyahu.
For instance, the equally despicable Newt Gingrich, and the other Republican sycophants, who travel to Las Vegas, to kiss his ring, and render obeisance.
And let's not forget "Israel Hayom" an Israeli national Hebrew language free daily right wing newspaper, which supports the equally despicable Likud, and Netanyahu.
1
Welfare for NFL team owners is one of the few causes for which Republicans will raise taxes. And the Democrats in the state assembly will be on board, just promise them some sky-box tickets.
Today the news is that one private investor has pulled out of the stadium scheme. Majestic Realty aka Ed Roski announced that, "It’s something that (Sands Chairman and CEO) Sheldon (Adelson) wants to do as a legacy for his family, and we’re respectful of that," (Las Vegas Review-Journal)
Can I get a publicly funded "legacy" for my family?
Today the news is that one private investor has pulled out of the stadium scheme. Majestic Realty aka Ed Roski announced that, "It’s something that (Sands Chairman and CEO) Sheldon (Adelson) wants to do as a legacy for his family, and we’re respectful of that," (Las Vegas Review-Journal)
Can I get a publicly funded "legacy" for my family?
9
It is most appropriate for the entities that believe that building a stadium for the NFL team, be allowed to provide the funds to erect the structure. If the business groups and individuals like Mr. Adelson believe that it is such a good investment, they should fully participate in receiving the anticipated profits. Absolutely exclude the city of Las Vegas. It is absurd for the middle and lower middle class to subsidize one of the richest men in the US (Mr. Mark Davis) and one of the most profitable businesses (an NFL team). If the city council votes in favor of this stadium, we will once again understand that it is the monied interests that determine public policy, to the detriment of the majority of citizens.
12
Some years ago, Bud Selig decided that our County Stadium was not good enough for his Brewers, so he threatened to move the team unless a new stadium could be built. The original plan was that the County would provide some tax breaks and a good deal on some vacant land, similar to the incentives offered to any industry, and the Brewers would build the stadium. In the end, Selig decided the only acceptable place to build was right next to County Stadium, but the plan would require moving a very heavily used spur of the expressway at taxpayers' expense. Then, the design of the new stadium got a bit expensive, and could we please institute a higher sales tax to cover the increase. In the end the Brewers wound up laying out less than $10 million out of the $350 million total cost. The rest of the cost went to the taxpayers, of whom the vast majority will never set foot in the eyesore that is Miller Park.
Somehow, that just don't seem right.
Somehow, that just don't seem right.
17
Adelson has a long history of problems with his Macao properties, investigations and like. He also, pre-Trump, a huge contributor to Republican Presidential candidates. It seems a bad idea to put a pro team in a state where people can bet legally on the games. Don't do it.
2
Just ask the people in Santa Clara. Now they are saddled with a nice stadium that sits empty most of the time.
5
It's a done deal.
1
Doesn't surprise me Adelson is willing to take money targeted for education and put it toward a football stadium.
17
He is one of those troll dolls I grew up with as a kid , come to life. If he didn't have money, he'd be a porter at McCarren Airport
Spending public money to build sports palaces for the ego-toys of billionaires offends on general principles. Cities get rolled on this out of misplaced civic pride ("we're not a big league city unless...").
Why would a city EVER build a sports palace for a team that could move, before that sports palace amortized itself? Watching the Rams laugh at St. Louis should be an object lesson to any city.
I watched the Seattle Supersonics, my fave team, try to hold Seattle hostage for a glitzy replacement for Key Arena ... and Seattle didn't play. The Sonics are now the OKC Thunder. But Seattle has built gigundo baseball and football palaces with public subsidies ... getting rolled by these bigger sports.
Why would a city EVER build a sports palace for a team that could move, before that sports palace amortized itself? Watching the Rams laugh at St. Louis should be an object lesson to any city.
I watched the Seattle Supersonics, my fave team, try to hold Seattle hostage for a glitzy replacement for Key Arena ... and Seattle didn't play. The Sonics are now the OKC Thunder. But Seattle has built gigundo baseball and football palaces with public subsidies ... getting rolled by these bigger sports.
9
Oakland's politicians haven't fallen for the extortion of the public by Mark Davis and the NFL in spite of lobbying by the NFL commissioner Goodell. Too bad Vegas wont stand firm and make the profiteers pay for their own stadium. Seeing the amount of public money that the city of SF threw at the NFL to host the super bowl made me ill. And yes, I am a football fan.
12
A grand colosseum rising out of the ashes of our crumbling schools is a tragedy for the State of Nevada. Socialism for billionaires, dog eat dog for the rest of us.
10
I am always amazed that the most vocal opponents of government and taxes are the first ones to line up for government handouts, and in the case of business, the bigger the handout the better, yet they often fail to live up to the promises they make the community.
15
The stadium the Az Cardinals play in cost $400M (2006) - they built it on cheap land in the suburbs. (It's still a money loser, but its design, with the grass on track is pretty impressive.) Sheldon really wants to use the stadium as a rival to the Las Vegas Convention Center, so the public use would be pretty non-existent, unlike Glendale. I have no idea why the facility looks like the design from Los Angeles - why can't it look like a stadium and not a garish helmet?
Thank God the eternal flame for Al Davis was removed....
Thank God the eternal flame for Al Davis was removed....
1
Let me get this straight.
Folks in Vegas want to pony up the better part of a billion dollars so that they can watch twenty something mostly African Americans give each other concussions. All for your "entertainment."
Huh. Maybe it's just me but that doesn't make a great deal of sense. Unless you're an NFL owner on the TV contract gravy train sopping up the dough daily while your players get tossed on the CTE scrapheap.
That's stomach turning from where I sit. It's why I don't watch the NFL. It's why I don't watch college football - where even pre-twenty something are prepared to sacrifice themselves on this same alter.
This ugly, gladiatorial spectacle must surely end at some point. The only question is when.
Folks in Vegas want to pony up the better part of a billion dollars so that they can watch twenty something mostly African Americans give each other concussions. All for your "entertainment."
Huh. Maybe it's just me but that doesn't make a great deal of sense. Unless you're an NFL owner on the TV contract gravy train sopping up the dough daily while your players get tossed on the CTE scrapheap.
That's stomach turning from where I sit. It's why I don't watch the NFL. It's why I don't watch college football - where even pre-twenty something are prepared to sacrifice themselves on this same alter.
This ugly, gladiatorial spectacle must surely end at some point. The only question is when.
13
Get real. It's not ending any time soon. Unfortunately.
I think Vegas should do what the Mayor of Atlanta has done concerning the Atlanta Braves. Now, ask Cobb county has this is working out for them?
1
Commercial businesses dedicated to the 46 events have to overcharge to make money. Those areas become ghost towns the rest of each day when the 46 events ARE held and EVERY day the rest of the time when the events are not This is a plan that creates indefinitely underused, vacant, and distressed areas of a city.
2
Against all public funding of professional sports teams. They are a private, profit-making entity and we as citizens should not have to subsidize them. We should use our public resources for health care, education, infrastructure, etc. that serve the public good.
6
American lunkhead mentality.
Let education suffer, I'd rather pay extravagant ticket prices if I can get them that will only benefit the few rich. It's my right. HeHe.
Let education suffer, I'd rather pay extravagant ticket prices if I can get them that will only benefit the few rich. It's my right. HeHe.
6
It feels good to blame the oligarchs but Americans are just dummys. They will deserve whatever they get.
3
Blocking dummies?
1
One of the biggest problems in the San Diego proposal is the lack of any planning as to access to a new huge structure in the downtown area. They want to take over a part of the 'East Village', tear out storage facilities for city transit vehicles, raze part of a struggling neighborhood, and increase traffic to near impossible levels in an already tight and congested area. Another part of this plan is an expansion of the Convention Center which will connect to the stadium, and the dread that if they don't get this deal done the biggest draw, ComicCon, will move to LA or Vegas. Then there is the biggest tax dodger in the country, the NFL, throwing in a pittance of the cost, and has already told the city that we will never have another Super Bowl here in our present stadium.
Please move the team somewhere else and let them be another cities perennial 'should have been a contender' loser. It's only 8 games a year, maybe 10 if the team makes the playoffs, plus a Super Bowl every 4-5 years, and the city will be in debt still from the old stadium renovations and facing mounting costs from the new one. All for a game which physically destroys its players, run by a rich boys club who pay no taxes and won't share profits with the the home city. Capitalism at its finest!
Please move the team somewhere else and let them be another cities perennial 'should have been a contender' loser. It's only 8 games a year, maybe 10 if the team makes the playoffs, plus a Super Bowl every 4-5 years, and the city will be in debt still from the old stadium renovations and facing mounting costs from the new one. All for a game which physically destroys its players, run by a rich boys club who pay no taxes and won't share profits with the the home city. Capitalism at its finest!
It appears that maybe - just maybe - the public is finally wising up to the absurdity that these "investments" represent. Always the same tired promises of jobs, tourism, etc.,, with almost always the same result - taxpayer debt and burden.
Let the arrogant billionaire/millionaire team owners, and their arrogant millionaire celebrity players pay for the home for their game, for that is precisely what it is, in various senses of the word!
Let the arrogant billionaire/millionaire team owners, and their arrogant millionaire celebrity players pay for the home for their game, for that is precisely what it is, in various senses of the word!
6
"investors have made it clear the public will not share in any stadium profits"
There is your answer, Las Vegas: let those who will keep the profits pay for that stadium. Let the investors pay for ALL of it. Put simply, the NFL and the investors need Las Vegas more than Las Vegas needs them. Let them pay for it.
There is your answer, Las Vegas: let those who will keep the profits pay for that stadium. Let the investors pay for ALL of it. Put simply, the NFL and the investors need Las Vegas more than Las Vegas needs them. Let them pay for it.
11
I'd like to know what kind of deal, if any, the National Hockey League made with the Las Vegas sports books prior to placing its next franchise there. Presumably the sports books had to agree to at least somewhat curtail betting on NHL games, and/or to ban betting on games which the new team would play? It's a much bigger issue with the National Football League because the volume of betting on NFL games is much, much higher. Speculation about the Raiders moving to Las Vegas has been out there for some time; I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the sports betting angle in all this.
As far as the main thrust of Ms. Bronson's column, it's a depressing reality that whether the political powers-that-be are R or D, U.S. pro sports teams are nearly undefeated in getting what they want in terms of funding for a new stadium, whether in the city they currently call home or in the next city they'll call home if their current home city balks at the tab. You can rely on Republican leaders to forget about fiscal responsibility and opposing crony capitalism, and also on Democratic leaders to forget about funding more urgent public priorities and opposing corporate welfare, if the local team threatens to leave unless it gets money for a new stadium.
As far as the main thrust of Ms. Bronson's column, it's a depressing reality that whether the political powers-that-be are R or D, U.S. pro sports teams are nearly undefeated in getting what they want in terms of funding for a new stadium, whether in the city they currently call home or in the next city they'll call home if their current home city balks at the tab. You can rely on Republican leaders to forget about fiscal responsibility and opposing crony capitalism, and also on Democratic leaders to forget about funding more urgent public priorities and opposing corporate welfare, if the local team threatens to leave unless it gets money for a new stadium.
3
If Mr. Adelson ($28 billion) wants a stadium, he can pay for it!
19
shelley follows donald trumps business plan
he only uses other people money
A generation from now people will under why we arranged each Sunday to give a small group of young men concussions and bad knees.
The stadiums that remain will be re-purposed as public parks.
The stadiums that remain will be re-purposed as public parks.
4
Surely. Just as the non-violence sentiment of the '60s led to the demise of boxing.
There has never been a well reasoned analysis that demonstrates a return on investment for taxpayers in sport stadium subsidies. The money goes hugely to the bottom line of owners - also investors and other money lenders. But then, when have sports fans ever been rational?
The one difference in this case, though, is that what happens in Vegas (bad economic fallout from hotel taxes) stays in Vegas. So, who cares?
The one difference in this case, though, is that what happens in Vegas (bad economic fallout from hotel taxes) stays in Vegas. So, who cares?
6
Bread and circus. That's the NFL and those politicians who back the funding of stadiums understand it perfectly.
6
City pays for sports stadium for billionaire owner!
Wow. Talk about a dog bites man story.
And if city and states didn't spend money on new sports stadiums, they'd probably just waste it on improving infrastructure and increasing salaries for teachers, police, and firefighters.
Wow. Talk about a dog bites man story.
And if city and states didn't spend money on new sports stadiums, they'd probably just waste it on improving infrastructure and increasing salaries for teachers, police, and firefighters.
28
Yes, and isn't it funny how Republican politicians are all for "the free market" and small, non-coercive government, until they aren't.
The rich get richer, the politicians get greased, and the poor tax payer pays for it all. A money laundering scheme and swindle.
Someday in the future will be a day of reckoning as municipalities, like Las Vegas, as they continue to leverage and accumulate more debt, will default. It's simply not sustainable. The state of Nevada and the city of Las Vegas have no business entertaining the idea of spending almost a billion dollars for a sports complex which may never pay off that debt. It's beginning to be a part of our culture; entitlement today - pay for it 'tomorrow'. Social Security, the state pension funds, city and state municipalities, Medicare....they're all going broke. There is no 'free' anything anymore - any politician that espouses 'free' is 'out to lunch' and is ignoring the common good of this country. The Raiders can stay in Oakland!
2
Sitting here in the St. Louis suburbs, I would strongly suggest that Las Vegans and Nevadans forego this deal. The NFL is a cancer filled with greedy men who have no regard for the communities in which their teams reside. (That's you, Stan Kroenke!) Do not let it metastasize to your area too. You will be paying off that debt for a LONG time. Furthermore, I do not think the long-term prospects for football are all that great, regarding the concussion problem.
9
Governor Brian Sandoval, a republican, sounds like your typical left wing, liberal "tax and spend" democrat. Isn't that what the "Party of NO" republicans call democrats who want to raise taxes a tiny bit on the wealthy to help pay for things like roads, bridges, schools? Those are essential things for society and well worth the investment of our tax dollars. A football stadium? The republican leadership thinks it is a good idea to spend tax dollars on something as frivolous as a new stadium?
Hypocrites. No wonder republicans are getting voted out of office.
Hypocrites. No wonder republicans are getting voted out of office.
4
Here's an idea: let Apple build the stadium using some of its gazillions of dollars in cash that they won't bring to the U.S. lest they have to pay taxes.
Cmon. Not only is Vegas the perfect place for an NFL team, it is the perfect place for Da Raiderz. I hate to see them leave Oakland, but the stadium used by the Raiders and Athletics is pathetic.
The Vegas Raiders! Move over Green Bay and Dallas. America will have a new team!
The Vegas Raiders! Move over Green Bay and Dallas. America will have a new team!
1
Looks like Trumpian economics to me. The NFL has so much money if they want a new stadium they should pay for it. Especially if teams feel free to leave after a few years as in St. Louis.
Great. They can name the team "The Las Vegas Bluffers."
2
The NFL is a monopoly (so is the NBA, NCAA, MLB), owned by billionaires and employing millionaires. It has been abusing its monopolistic power by holding cities hostage, forcing them to use public money to pay for expensive stadiums with very dubious economic benefits.
It should be regulated at the federal level as a natural monopoly. No public funds shall ever be used for professional sports.
It should be regulated at the federal level as a natural monopoly. No public funds shall ever be used for professional sports.
1
I can say definitively that if Vegas approves this stadium on the backs of Tourists for a rooom tax, who shall have little chance to use the stadium or attend one of only 8 home games, my interest in visiting Las Vegas shall be nil - I shall actively avoid it. If I have to go to this city I would, but absolutely positively shall place it on the NO list for anything elective.
If the city wants the stadium, try having the people who use it pay for it, the local citizens, or better yet, the team owners.
If the city wants the stadium, try having the people who use it pay for it, the local citizens, or better yet, the team owners.
1
Adelson and ownership needs to pay the full amount. Room tax is pie in the sky stuff. Plus, if the Raiders move, in five years, ownership will be complaining about a lack of attendance. Since Vegas has a large service industry, who will attend the games? Ticket prices are outrageous across professional sports. The Raiders will likely be bad, as they have a tendency to be, so the stadium will be half filled.
1
Hockey starts next winter and not this winter.
The same tired, oft discredited justifications for spending hundreds of millions of public money on an NFL stadium are particularly ludicrous in the case of Las Vegas. The city is already a major tourist/convention draw, and to think that a $750 million "investment" that receives no direct return (e.g. Stadium naming rights, food concessions, parking concessions, etc.) will create sufficient incremental indirect spending so as to bolster tax revenues is a pipe dream. Meanwhile, Nevada has one of the worst school systems in the country, and $750 million could go a long way to making improvements. Yet once again, socialism for the rich will likely triumph.
7
We will never know what public wants because greedy businessmen and corrupt politicians have decided public financing of the stadium is good for the city; there will be no referendum. Capitalism and democracy at their worst. Adelson is just like Trump in getting what he wants. Here is a glimpse of what the country would look like if Trump is elected. Beware!
3
Cities should not be providing money or special tax breaks for stadiums. It's as simple as that. Let the teams pay for them, or have a separate management company set up to run them. They have the money, and are just trying to raid the taxpayers for easy cash.
In my fair city, this issue has come up relatively recently, because we ended up voting on a tax levy to improve the stadium of the glorious and storied Cleveland Browns. (Gloriously terrible, that is, for those who don't follow football.) And I have to say, I wish they had voted it down.
In my fair city, this issue has come up relatively recently, because we ended up voting on a tax levy to improve the stadium of the glorious and storied Cleveland Browns. (Gloriously terrible, that is, for those who don't follow football.) And I have to say, I wish they had voted it down.
8
For some reason my original comment did not register. No matter. This is a bad deal. Look to NY Las Vegas. I'm a former "Bronx Bomber" and the Yankees new stadium, also the most expensive stadium built at the time for $2.3 billion, ultimately cost the public 1.2 billion in subsidies. And all we got in return was a park and more low wage part time jobs in the stadium. The average person in the Bronx can't even afford a ticket to a game. But what does that matter? What is really important is that A-Rod, and Jeter and the rest of the team got a really nice new stadium largely funded by taxpayers so the organization could spend their money on multi-million dollar contracts.
So what if the children need an education, or the streets need to be repaired, or the poor and homeless need shelter? Apparently, using government money is only socialism and welfare when it's given to people who are not already obscenely rich. Then it's an investment. Wink. Wink.
Las Vegans should band together, and organize protests outside of the Sands hotel, city hall, and the legislature and make a huge stink about public money being diverted for private gain.
So what if the children need an education, or the streets need to be repaired, or the poor and homeless need shelter? Apparently, using government money is only socialism and welfare when it's given to people who are not already obscenely rich. Then it's an investment. Wink. Wink.
Las Vegans should band together, and organize protests outside of the Sands hotel, city hall, and the legislature and make a huge stink about public money being diverted for private gain.
9
Will the NFL help pay for the infrastructure that is needed to support the stadium? Will they pay the taxes that will go into the overtime for the police to deal with traffic jams, more criminal activity, etc.? What about the people who will be displaced from their homes or businesses while this stadium is built or afterwards? Will they allow the games to be broadcast in the local area over the air so that people can see the games they can't afford?
Given the cost of going to any sort of sports event I think that cities should not be subsidizing the building of sports arenas or playing fields for professional sports. I used to be able to go to the US Open in Flushing Meadows until a few things happened. First of all it became an event to be seen at. Next the tickets were sold out on the first day they were available to the public. The best days were sold out even before the first day tickets were available because they went to the sponsors. Tickets for the worst seats became too expensive when coupled with parking, paying tolls, and the fees imposed by whoever was selling the tickets. We're paying for the "convenience" of buying tickets in advance while having lost the convenience of being able to decide the day before a game or any event, that we want to go because of how tickets are sold and made available.
We've been priced out by the surcharges, the facility fees, parking costs, etc. It's another example of how America is becoming a corporatocracy.
Given the cost of going to any sort of sports event I think that cities should not be subsidizing the building of sports arenas or playing fields for professional sports. I used to be able to go to the US Open in Flushing Meadows until a few things happened. First of all it became an event to be seen at. Next the tickets were sold out on the first day they were available to the public. The best days were sold out even before the first day tickets were available because they went to the sponsors. Tickets for the worst seats became too expensive when coupled with parking, paying tolls, and the fees imposed by whoever was selling the tickets. We're paying for the "convenience" of buying tickets in advance while having lost the convenience of being able to decide the day before a game or any event, that we want to go because of how tickets are sold and made available.
We've been priced out by the surcharges, the facility fees, parking costs, etc. It's another example of how America is becoming a corporatocracy.
7
Perhaps we are the cusp of decline for two 'institutions': the NFL and Apple. Both epitomize greed and increasingly frantic efforts to keep their product fresh and new and 'intellectually protected'. They can be over sanctimonious. Maybe both are now running on fantasy fumes. NFL ratings are down. People are saying no to wireless ear plugs. Apple has Samsung fires. The NFL more 'glorious' stadiums. How soon until fans are fed up on a large scale?
2
The NFL can only wish that it made the kind of contributions with thousands of high paying jobs, billions of dollars in income taxes, property taxes, payroll taxes, and hundreds of thousands of owners (shareholders} participating in the long term appreciation of their investment,whether individually or through funds while also receiving cash dividends. Compare them to the NFL team owners. 31 billionaires and one publicly owned team, the Packers. What a joke. And I would love to know how much income tax these billionaires pay on their returns.
1
With present ticket prices, the average taxpayer who ends up paying for this cannot afford to get into that stadium to watch a game.
Let those elite few who can afford tickets pay for their own stadium. The rest of us will watch on TV, no matter which city the team may play for.
Let those elite few who can afford tickets pay for their own stadium. The rest of us will watch on TV, no matter which city the team may play for.
16
So the man who says the stadium is a 'must do' with 28 billion dollars to toss around - more than double the annual Nevada state budget - can't put up additional $750 million? If that additional investment isn't worth it for him, why should it be worth it for the state?
Why should a highly profitable monopoly receive government subsidies?
Why should a highly profitable monopoly receive government subsidies?
136
Las Vegas is still trying to find a reason to exist after losing its American monopoly on legalized gambling.
2
The NFL is all about socialist costs and privatized profits. When will people wise up and stop letting pro sports fleece their cities?
30
If taxpayers "invest" in this deal, shouldn't they (we) receive a share of the profits? Why is this crucial component not part of the plan? I mean, fair is fair.
18
If he's are worth 28 billion, why can't he just build the stadium himself. Is he worried he will run out if he only has 26 billion? Even assuming the money is not invested and growing, this is enough money to spend 1 million a day for 71 years. Why would anyone think it make sense to subsidize him?
25
Maybe Kroenke's wife, Ms. WalMart, will lend him some money.
2
I'll bet you can afford the mortgage interest on your house. So, why should the rest of us have to pay it?
Bread and circuses? At least the plutocrats of Ancient Rome had to pay out of their own pockets the cost of the gladiators and lions! In our democracy, the plutocrats have found a way of dumping all the costs and credit risk on the taxpayers - that means, in the words of the late unlamented billionaire Leona Helmsley, us "little people" who do indeed pay taxes.
17
Actually a big room tax would be beneficial because it would provide a good reason not to visit LV. I have been attending many different kinds of meetings in LV for over 40 years. Everyone I know attending the meetings in LV absolutely hates this place - we call it the cigarette.
Watching the plumes of smoke over the gambling floors and also the poor children stuck at the edge of the gambling floors waiting till their parents loose all their money.
Yes the LV suckers maybe subsidizing the NFL millionaire players and billionaire owners - how perfect is that!
Watching the plumes of smoke over the gambling floors and also the poor children stuck at the edge of the gambling floors waiting till their parents loose all their money.
Yes the LV suckers maybe subsidizing the NFL millionaire players and billionaire owners - how perfect is that!
11
Hello from San Diego, the city that will be voting NO on publicly financing for a Chargers stadium. Many San Diegans, including myself, welcome this football team leaving their home of over 50 years. The thought of raising our room taxes to pay for the Spanos family stadium is a NO GO. These people are billionaires, pay for your own stadiums, and stop crippling our cities financially.
Go, Chargers, go. Straight to Los Angeles.
Go, Chargers, go. Straight to Los Angeles.
54
Oakland, 1982: "Let 'em leave!"
Oakland, 1995: "Sure, we'll build you Mt. Davis if you come back."
Baltimore, 1984: "Let 'em leave!"
Baltimore, 1996: "Sure, we'll build you a new stadium if you bring the Browns here."
St. Louis, 1986: "Let 'em leave!"
St. Louis, 1995: "Sure, we'll build you a new stadium if you bring the Rams here."
Houston, 1997: "Let 'em leave!"
Houston, 2002: "Sure, we'll build a new stadium if you put an expansion team here."
Beginning to see a pattern here?
Oakland, 1995: "Sure, we'll build you Mt. Davis if you come back."
Baltimore, 1984: "Let 'em leave!"
Baltimore, 1996: "Sure, we'll build you a new stadium if you bring the Browns here."
St. Louis, 1986: "Let 'em leave!"
St. Louis, 1995: "Sure, we'll build you a new stadium if you bring the Rams here."
Houston, 1997: "Let 'em leave!"
Houston, 2002: "Sure, we'll build a new stadium if you put an expansion team here."
Beginning to see a pattern here?
Los Angeles taxpayers managed to dodge the bullet; the new Rams facility will be built without tax dollars. Although under-the-radar tax-funded subsidies will surely be handed out, at least a billion dollar stadium won't be constructed with the contributions of the poor in LA. If LA can do it, so can Las Vegas.
12
The NFL: where the elite meet to rub elbows while they half-watch from their suites as the sons of the poor puree each others' brains in stadiums their own parents and neighbors paid for.
22
Wait till Donald is elected he would probably see this as a way to Make America Great Again. What is fascinating is how the candle draws the moth in situations like this. This city perhaps is barely out of the woods from the Great Recession and now wants to dash off after some new way to make a buck quick so they think.
1
I've been hoping that America's stadium mania would stop here - but this is Las Vegas, fer chrissakes; who am I kidding?
Besides, one of Sandoval's primary concerns regarding the stadium appears to be how gameday crowds will effect surface traffic in its vicinity ... and as far as the concerns that could and should be voiced, that is practically the most minor concern that could possibly be imagined.
Nevada is a state populated primarily by parasites ... and the biggest parasites of all are at the top of the heap.
Besides, one of Sandoval's primary concerns regarding the stadium appears to be how gameday crowds will effect surface traffic in its vicinity ... and as far as the concerns that could and should be voiced, that is practically the most minor concern that could possibly be imagined.
Nevada is a state populated primarily by parasites ... and the biggest parasites of all are at the top of the heap.
3
"Deplorables" is the more fashionable nom de vainqueurs.
1
"I've been hoping that America's stadium mania would stop here - but this is Las Vegas, fer chrissakes; who am I kidding?"
For the NFL, it essentially will. As of this season, there are four NFL teams playing in sub-par stadiums...the Falcons, the Rams, the Chargers, and the Raiders. The Falcons will be moving into a new stadium next year. The Rams will move into their new stadium in 2019. The Chargers will either help build a new stadium in San Diego, or will possibly move into the Rams' new stadium. And, of course, the Raiders.
And, as for baseball, there are only two clubs with sub-par ballparks in need of replacement...the Athletics and Rays.
So, conceivably...if four additional stadiums are built in the US, you could see a lull in construction for some time.
For the NFL, it essentially will. As of this season, there are four NFL teams playing in sub-par stadiums...the Falcons, the Rams, the Chargers, and the Raiders. The Falcons will be moving into a new stadium next year. The Rams will move into their new stadium in 2019. The Chargers will either help build a new stadium in San Diego, or will possibly move into the Rams' new stadium. And, of course, the Raiders.
And, as for baseball, there are only two clubs with sub-par ballparks in need of replacement...the Athletics and Rays.
So, conceivably...if four additional stadiums are built in the US, you could see a lull in construction for some time.
Probably insignificant.....but there must be some people like me who won't visit Vegas anymore if part of my hotel bill goes to greedy NFL owners.
3
Yeah, it's not like the good ol' days when it went to the mob.
1
As an avid Bills fan I followed the ebbs and flows of the potential relocation of the team out of Buffalo. There's a big financial reason people fought so hard to keep the team in WNY. An NFL team is a year round cash register - it's local impact, in merchandising alone, goes well beyond the 8 home games per year. It will cause a raise in real estate prices and also serve, somewhat, to diversify the economy away from gambling and give Sin City a sense of much needed legitimacy as an actual city instead of the "what happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas" debauchery it holds in many people's minds around the country.
You make debauchery sound like a bad thing.
2
I have a bridge for sale plus some swamp land in Florida. Interested?
Disgusting. Sacrificing education for a concussion. Sounds very American! Problem is the rest of the world has to be remembered!
This has always been a bread and circuses thing. Look at the Atlanta Falcons. A half billion stadium but cur the eduction budget!!!? America leading the world to a financial concussion in the service to the rich. Golly you people are stupid!
This has always been a bread and circuses thing. Look at the Atlanta Falcons. A half billion stadium but cur the eduction budget!!!? America leading the world to a financial concussion in the service to the rich. Golly you people are stupid!
4
We, the people, need to stop being sheeple. The NFL can't hold LV hostage without its consent. Stop giving our tax dollars to rich investors who subvert our system by corrupting our public officials. Just say no! This is just another example of the utter corruption of our political system. This tactic only works for the mega rich because they use their money to co opt our elected officials. And we help them by reelection of the corrupt time and time again.
Term limits would be a great start. Take some of the money out of politics. And the line item veto would be a next step.
Don't vote for the corrupt and the liars. This starts with Clinton and Trump. Stop buying the lies that the two major parties spew. "Lesser of Two Evils." " our candidate is less dangerous than your candidate". They are both liars, cheats and corrupt.
The two major parties are not really different. Just have different groups to mislead, make fearful and steal from.
Term limits would be a great start. Take some of the money out of politics. And the line item veto would be a next step.
Don't vote for the corrupt and the liars. This starts with Clinton and Trump. Stop buying the lies that the two major parties spew. "Lesser of Two Evils." " our candidate is less dangerous than your candidate". They are both liars, cheats and corrupt.
The two major parties are not really different. Just have different groups to mislead, make fearful and steal from.
5
Here in Wisconsin our Governor Walker and his legislative cohorts passed a 222 million grant to build a new arena for the MIlwaukee Bucks. This was done under the guise of great returns from tax revenue and money spent by fans.
The statistics from many economic studies on the supposed monetary windfall of public supported stadiums have proven time and again just the opposite.
The Bucks were shown to have a three county draw for their games in a state with 72 counties. One could walk anywhere in Wisconsin , outside of MIlwaukee, and never see a single Milwaukee Bucks hat or jersey. I nor anyone I know could name a single player on the team.
Walkers campaign finances were managed by one of the team owners.
All this while our state deals with a transportation budget short fall of hundreds of millions.
And so it goes!
The statistics from many economic studies on the supposed monetary windfall of public supported stadiums have proven time and again just the opposite.
The Bucks were shown to have a three county draw for their games in a state with 72 counties. One could walk anywhere in Wisconsin , outside of MIlwaukee, and never see a single Milwaukee Bucks hat or jersey. I nor anyone I know could name a single player on the team.
Walkers campaign finances were managed by one of the team owners.
All this while our state deals with a transportation budget short fall of hundreds of millions.
And so it goes!
17
Rick, it's not just people outside the three counties, or just basketball. The taxpayers are still paying for Miller Park, and probably won't have it paid off before it's declared obsolete. I, like many others, have never set foot in Miller park, and the few events I have attended at the Bradley Center had nothing to do with basketball. I haven't watched a major league sports event of any kind on TV for at least 30 years, yet my tax dollars are paying for these palaces so the rich can have fun. Let's just add the cost of these stadiums to the ticket prices. Let the people who watch the games pay the cost.
If these RW billionaires are so confident that the decision to build a stadium is such a great idea, let them put up all the money. Hey, no risk, no return, right? Capitalism at its finest. Having the government chip in, well, that smacks of socialism.
14
It might be instructive for these municipal officials to tour the public schools in their areas, the ones nearest these taxpayer give aways. What would they find? They would find what Americans value most---bread and circuses and what they value least---education.
3
Perhaps Nevadan pols should consider a tax on wagers, much like the proposed tax on stock bets (transactions) to fund this.
5
LA resisted for years and got a better deal, BUT as the #2 market, the NFL needed LA more than LA needed football. As long as there are more mid-size cities than teams, the owners will demand that cities guarantee their profits.
The prospect of an NFL team moving makes some people crazy, enough so that they can tell themselves that visitors will pay for the host city's lunacy through higher hotel room taxes, when a city already has a fairly high tax promised for actual citizen benefits (education).
An NFL franchise is the gift that keeps taking. The owners of the NFL always come back for more. Ask San Diego, St. Louis, Minneapolis, etc.
The prospect of an NFL team moving makes some people crazy, enough so that they can tell themselves that visitors will pay for the host city's lunacy through higher hotel room taxes, when a city already has a fairly high tax promised for actual citizen benefits (education).
An NFL franchise is the gift that keeps taking. The owners of the NFL always come back for more. Ask San Diego, St. Louis, Minneapolis, etc.
13
Racist, much? The big black guy is beating the skinny white kid out of all the money. No, the old white billionaire owners are grabbing everybody's money and education for all kids will continue to suffer. Wake up, editors. There is as much message in the graphic as in the text.
7
Just one of many ways we subsidize the Rich. Yust look what we got by subsidizing Trump. Barbecue the owners because there is no pig in that poke.
14
Corporate welfare
5
Until recently, the NFL -- a $10B per year industry -- was actually a tax-exempt, not-for-profit organization.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/business/wp/2015/04/28/the-nfl-is-dr...
Its commissioner's annual salary is tens of millions of dollars. Yet somehow, it's always on the prowl for handouts and subsidies for the construction of new stadiums.
While stadiums may ultimately host other events, it's useful to remember that they will be used for exactly 8 home games per season. Let the NFL fund these endeavors from its own coffers.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/business/wp/2015/04/28/the-nfl-is-dr...
Its commissioner's annual salary is tens of millions of dollars. Yet somehow, it's always on the prowl for handouts and subsidies for the construction of new stadiums.
While stadiums may ultimately host other events, it's useful to remember that they will be used for exactly 8 home games per season. Let the NFL fund these endeavors from its own coffers.
58
The NFL voluntarily dropped their tax-exempt status mostly because of misleading comments like yours harming their image. The individual teams pay taxes, the NFL which mostly exists to organize the 32 teams, share revenues, etc, was non-profit by construction.
Funny how that works. Your city has huge problems right now. Professional sports teams will do NOTHING to fix the problem. BUT, they will give tickets to politician.
2
"Economists overwhelmingly agree that stadiums are not good economic investments for cities, but supporters claim the stadium could produce up to $800 million in new economic activity each year."
Science, facts, and logic - meet emotion, whim, and fantasy. The loser is always the taxpayer.
Science, facts, and logic - meet emotion, whim, and fantasy. The loser is always the taxpayer.
1
Never underestimate, etc. A sucker is born every, etc. Do eight NFL games per year improve the school system in Los Vegas? Seven hundred and fifty million could do so. Let the NFL move to New Jersey. Let them move to New Brunswick. Let them wither on the vine. But don't give more free money to the billionaires. Give them a one-way ride on a Tumbril.
6
I see another round of welfare for billionaires is in order. Maybe one day, taxpayers will finally put their collective foot down and say "no".
5
I have some questions. Is the room tax a percent of the total bill (so the better hotels pay more) or a tax per room (so the struggling hotels struggle a little more)? What does Trump think and why? Is there really a political contest between football and education?
Just an insane amount of corporate welfare. In Atlanta we are coughing up money for a new Braves stadium to replace a perfectly good Turner Field, which just made it to 20 years old. The Georgia Dome, open since 1992, is about to be torn down for another new one. Even our basketball team, the Hawks, as getting in on the action, demanding a renovation to Philips Arena - open since 1999.
If the wealthy owners want new facilities, they should have to pay for them.
If the wealthy owners want new facilities, they should have to pay for them.
2
What is it about us that makes us want to buy in (literally) with any huckster billionaire's ideas on any level? Why do we think their promises for the pot of gold at the end are true when clearly they aren't? We do this with stadiums, Wall Street, Presidential candidates, and more. We go with them with high hopes. In the end, we get the debt ridden and worse off reality and then we are angry that it wasn't the gold. The real tragedy is that we repeat this cycle over and over.
2
And you can bet that the suckers in St. Louis who fell for the schemes of the 1% percenters will turn out to vote for Donald Trump! When Bob Kraft threatened to take the New England Patriots to Hartford because Massachusetts would not subsidize his stadium, the state called his bluff. His new stadium was built in Foxboro between Boston and Providence with the state only providing transportation funds for improving highway access and not the multi millions he had once demanded. It turned out to be a win-win for taxpayers and the billionaire.
1
The sucker powers that be in St. Louis fell all over themselves to throw money at the billionaire team owners, but cannot find the funds to hire much-needed police officers and the city schools are a mess. Perhaps the individuals in charge played football as youngsters and are now suffering the aftereffects of multiple concussions.
1
This is and ought to be viewed as pop culture hysteria driven by business greed. A love of gambling is a neurosis closely tied to drug addiction and general irresponsibility. How about the NYT assign a mature writer to discuss this topic, one who'd refuse it any patina of reasonableness?
Reporting "fans" as "salivating" is tabloid idiocy, the cultural point of reference "salivating fan" is akin to madness do to tainted water. A wise and ethical writer of depth would hammer on this inane circus of public and private decadence and call for the vampiric super billionaire Adelson to cash in some of his tonnage of gold, and pay for the monument to human folly himself, in full.
Reporting "fans" as "salivating" is tabloid idiocy, the cultural point of reference "salivating fan" is akin to madness do to tainted water. A wise and ethical writer of depth would hammer on this inane circus of public and private decadence and call for the vampiric super billionaire Adelson to cash in some of his tonnage of gold, and pay for the monument to human folly himself, in full.
3
Asking tax payers to fund the building of sports arenas is still another definition of chutzpah. Both team owners and team players receive outrageous sums of money for their "efforts", not to mention the gambling interests and resultant corruption such interests inevitably attract. Ordinary folks (including under-paid school teachers) can't even afford to buy tickets to view these macho displays of male virility. Why, indeed, should tax payers be asked to fund these kid's games played by grown men in arenas they can't even afford to buy tickets for?
3
Football stadiums or schools. It will be exciting to see what Nevadians choose.
2
Every time I see the name Adelson or Goodman I am reminded why not to go to Vegas.
6
I am completely neutral about the game of football. As a patriotic taxpayer who without fail assumes an upright bipedal stance for the National Anthem I would have no interest in footing the bill for Raiders or any other NFL team were players to import a #blacklivesmatter commercial at the beginning of every game...and I don't care what Obama says!
1
Greed by billionaires. You would think taxpayers would learn that they lose big on stadium construction for private corporations. Taxpayers also lose big when are approved by politicians for corporate tax welfare incentives to move from one state to another. Corporate welfare. If billionaire owners and the NFL want a stadium then they need to figure out how to pay for it with private money.
2
I can remember when, many years ago, as I was playing the first version of Sim City the city's population were clamoring for a new stadium. I knew back then that an investment of that sort was never a good deal but I relented and gave the Sims a stadium. As the game progressed I watched the city devolve to a blighted shell because the money that should have been invested in police, education and the infrastructure went to build a stadium.
2
Children in Nevada don't need to go to school! They just need to cheer for a football team! Support the stadium.
2
The glaring irony here--and not mentioned in this article--is that the NFL is tax-exempt!
2
Nevada should let the NFL go hang itself. If they want to put a team in Las Vegas let the Raiders and the NFL pay for it with their own money. If they're not willing to do that then forget it. Why should public money go to plutocrats while so much else is left to ruin because of an alleged lack of money?
5
If there's any justice in the world, they'll build the thing, and as soon as the last brick is laid, the Raiders will announce they've accepted an even sweeter deal somewhere else.
1
Politicians: the gift that keeps on taking.
This is just a rip-off.
Corporate welfare for billionaires.
If it's such a great investment then how come the billionaires don't want to own the whole thing? Because then they can extort the city when needed.
Socialized investment risk with privatized profits.
If gambling was removed from the equation, all of this "fanatical" interest in football would evaporate tomorrow. It's a great kids game, i played six years, then I grew up. I can barely watch it now.
Corporate welfare for billionaires.
If it's such a great investment then how come the billionaires don't want to own the whole thing? Because then they can extort the city when needed.
Socialized investment risk with privatized profits.
If gambling was removed from the equation, all of this "fanatical" interest in football would evaporate tomorrow. It's a great kids game, i played six years, then I grew up. I can barely watch it now.
3
Nothing speaks to the degeneration of democracy in America more than these stadium boondoggles. Each is more grotesque, insulting to most fans, and uncomfortable (save for corporate luxury boxes) than the last one. It wasn't that long ago that some though it was outrageous for the Dodgers to leave because they wanted to build a new park entirely at their own expense but NYC refused to supply land on which to do so.
"a yet-to-be-named National Hockey League expansion outfit, will debut this winter"
Untrue, the expansion team will NOT debut until next season, Fall 2017.
Other than that I enjoyed the op-ed. You're right in saying that no elected official ever wants to be the one associated with a professional sports franchise leaving town no matter what the economic impact of investing in a new stadium says. For the most part the long term consequences that most elected officials say they're concerned with only extend as far as the next election.
Elected officials fear that they won't be reelected if a team leaves. I think it would be interesting to study the political fortunes of the mayors of cities who were subjected to these extortion efforts by professional sports leagues.
Do mayors get reelected if a team leaves town? If the team remains, how many of them use it as a springboard to a higher office?
Untrue, the expansion team will NOT debut until next season, Fall 2017.
Other than that I enjoyed the op-ed. You're right in saying that no elected official ever wants to be the one associated with a professional sports franchise leaving town no matter what the economic impact of investing in a new stadium says. For the most part the long term consequences that most elected officials say they're concerned with only extend as far as the next election.
Elected officials fear that they won't be reelected if a team leaves. I think it would be interesting to study the political fortunes of the mayors of cities who were subjected to these extortion efforts by professional sports leagues.
Do mayors get reelected if a team leaves town? If the team remains, how many of them use it as a springboard to a higher office?
NFL Stadiums are a special kind of billionare welfare. After the Raiders moved back to Oak and from LA, Oakland's Alameda County couldn't afford to keep libraries open and had to cut back on other public services to pay the debt on the new stadium that lured them back. Las Vegans (sp?) are a special kind of fools to support such a deal!
1
This is the new Olympics. Hopefully cities will start to wise up and start saying "Thanks, but no thanks". The difference unfortunately is that football puts money in politicians'pockets here and the Olympics doesn't. I'm not sure we'll get to the point of refusing to play the game until the money is gone, and even then...Detroit has a team, don't they?
When I think of football I think of this and cannot in good conscience be a fan.
When I think of football I think of this and cannot in good conscience be a fan.
Americans opposed to public subsidizing of sports franchises without receiving any of the profits for public benefits should take a page from Brazil. Protesters there marched for FIFA quality schools and hospitals and housing. In this country, we need to make clear that public money needs to support our public needs first before we finance billion dollar industries for entertainment. NFL profits in cities that provide hundreds of millions of dollars for stadiums should in part go to support their local communities. We need NFL schools.
A study of stadium finances two decades ago said the town that benefited the most from public spending on Fenway was the town outside Houston where Roger Clemons lived. At least when a town pays to build, say, an automobile factory it usually sticks around, as it's much harder to move equipment then then the personnel that make up a sports team when some new sucker (I mean town) makes an offer.
Since the reason these shakedowns work is usually the emotional appeal to "Save our team". Any tax payer funded stadium (the teams factory) should also require an ownership stake of the same value as the public finance to help keep the team from moving.
Since the reason these shakedowns work is usually the emotional appeal to "Save our team". Any tax payer funded stadium (the teams factory) should also require an ownership stake of the same value as the public finance to help keep the team from moving.
This article mirrors what just took place in Minneapolis and the new Vikings stadium: the immensely rich NFL manipulating the local community of taxpayers to pay for their toys.
1
This is one reason why we need a presidentially nominated sports czar -- to provide advocacy for the voter on stadium deals and franchise relocations, as well as to the high-school, college, and otherwise non-professional athlete, and be a voice for getting World Cup and Olympics committees to award their international games to the US. I understand Barack Obama will be available after January 20th.
In exchange for partial financing of The Stadium, Las Vegas should get 10% ownership in the franchise.
Every study in the aftermath, every survey of citizens and every theoretical exercise reach the same conclusions - public financing of any type is a losing bet for the average citizen. The fact that the elected class continually ignores this is a testament to whom they really work for. It is painfully clear that strict, inviolate term limits are necessary for every office, local state or federal. And no elected position should be retirement-system eligible. See how that flushes out the rats.
1
Nobody forces anybody to pay for a stadium. It's your choice. How does that make you a victim of anything but your own decisions?
Just so I understand the Adelson Republican argument - Providing assistance for those in dire need only makes them weak and dependent. Furthermore, government should not interfere in business. Providing $750 million welfare to Mr. Adelson is noble and helps everyone. Do I have that right?
Maybe someone should say to Mr. Adelson, "Sorry, but we don't want to make you weak and dependent, and we have no right to interfere in your business."
Maybe someone should say to Mr. Adelson, "Sorry, but we don't want to make you weak and dependent, and we have no right to interfere in your business."
2
NFL teams are run for a profit. If the owners of these teams aren't skilled enough business people to get the necessary private backing to build a stadium that's their problem. Nothing about the NFL (or any sports team) is necessary. We have too many other real issues that need money, call a special session to work on those. Consider also that these stadiums take up space for decades and with activity present a small fraction of the days in a year they inherently create dead space in the community. I hope Nevada legistlators have the courage to say no.
2
First, I question how long the NFL can retain its stranglehold on sports entertainment. With the awareness of CTE rising and the eventual loss of younger players at the college level it seems that the game has to change and become safer - and less interesting to many fans. It would seem to be a risky bet to burden the public with stadium debt knowing about the looming costs of CTE. Second, I am not a football fan, but I am from St. Louis. Not only are we stuck still paying off the old stadium after the Rams left, but the new stadium plans the city and state put together added significantly to the remaining debt even though the NFL did not negotiate in good faith. They always knew they would move the team to reap the rewards of going to a market like LA.
Public funding of stadiums should not be allowed, especially in light of the fact that someone like Adelson could build one without even noticing the dent in his mountain of cash.
Public funding of stadiums should not be allowed, especially in light of the fact that someone like Adelson could build one without even noticing the dent in his mountain of cash.
1
The Raiders. What an appropriate name for the outfit coming to Las Vegas to pillage the public's money!
3
I'm a lifelong NFL fan, but I'm sick and tired of wealthy owners bilking the public for stadiums. Besides, Las Vegas is in the middle of a desert. The last thing we, as a society, need to be doing is increasing the demand for water there.
If the stadium is such a bargain Adelson can fork over the 750 million out of his 28 billion to pay for it. Keep the tax payers out of it.
If the stadium is such a bargain Adelson can fork over the 750 million out of his 28 billion to pay for it. Keep the tax payers out of it.
8
"A Sunday afternoon in a packed casino sports book lounge, with local and visiting gamblers gathering in swarms to ponder point spreads, attests to the city’s enthusiasm." Pardon me, but the "enthusiasm" appears focused almost exclusively on the gambling aspect rather than the game or the team. it wouldn't matter if there were duck races or professional Three-Card Monte teams - it's all about the gambling. Let's see ... both an NFL and an NHL franchise in the gambling capitol of the world - what could possibly go wrong? Furthermore, inasmuch as"the public will not share in any [publicly funded] stadium profits, the House has seemingly already won. Anyone out there want to bet on how this "stadium story" ends? Yup, close to a sure thing.
1
The idea that arguably the most profitable sports conglomerate in the entire world, with billionaire owners, should be subsidized by the tax dollars of hard working Americans, is a classic example of the corrupt politics that fuels public outrage at politicians and the "system"
2
I accept that my dim view of professional sports is not shared by all, but this is ridiculous. We can't get the arts funded, the schools are unevenly funded, infrastructure rots, sports games with tickets most people can't afford (let alone the boxes!)... but we taxpayers can finance a stadium for the financial benefit of owners who probably earned their unseemly riches the old fashioned way - on the backs of our ancestors. And we never get a say.
I'd rather have a new museum.
I'd rather have a new museum.
1
"I'd rather have a new museum."
Well you're staggeringly outnumbered, pal, and this is a democracy. Get used to it.
Well you're staggeringly outnumbered, pal, and this is a democracy. Get used to it.
Given the way Adelson has wired this, it looks like Las Vegas's middle class will be taxed to support the wealthy for generations. Your only solution will be to move. Seriously. Move to Omaha. Move to L.A. Move to a place where politicians are less corrupt and the people have more respect.
1
No matter how you cut it, this amounts over a billion dollars of the public's money be spent to build a private playground. Los Angeles showed the forward: Don't build it. If they want to be there, they'll come.
1
While state and local politicians line their pockets with campaign contributions, and billionaire sports team owners fill their coffers with tax subsidies and profits from cities they can hold hostage and extort at any time with the threat to leave; the average American is left with skyrocketing prices for game tickets, merchandise and the decades long stadium tax bill.
This is all while the nfl is a tax exempt "non-profit" organization.
If we as Americans didn't love our football so much we could see the costs that college football and nfl have wrought on society. This includes the numerous injuries incurred by athletes at all levels with permanent brain damage always a risk. Not to mention the financial strain on cities that cannot provide appropriate education and social services for their residents but have to pay for their stadiums.
Ideally we would boycott such a horrendous organization, but alas, we are suckers for the pigskin.
This is all while the nfl is a tax exempt "non-profit" organization.
If we as Americans didn't love our football so much we could see the costs that college football and nfl have wrought on society. This includes the numerous injuries incurred by athletes at all levels with permanent brain damage always a risk. Not to mention the financial strain on cities that cannot provide appropriate education and social services for their residents but have to pay for their stadiums.
Ideally we would boycott such a horrendous organization, but alas, we are suckers for the pigskin.
The NFL is not a nonprofit corporation. It was one in the past, but that has changed. That did not affect the taxes; profits are taxed at a team level.
Sheldon Adelson has $28 BILLION ? Then why doesn't he just put up the $750 million and be done with it? WRITE A CHECK.....or have a secretary write it, and then Sheldon could sign it. The secretary could then mail the check.
Does too much money make you dumb?
Does too much money make you dumb?
1
Billionaires get that way by using other people's money, not their own. It's not dumb, it's just immoral.
Here in Indianapolis we have a nice big stadium for the Colts to use 8 times a year. With the interest on the loans, the price was one trillion dollars.
The team contributes nothing for maintenance or operating costs. The city even pays to staff the concession stands, parking lots, and security. The colts receive all of the revenue from every aspect.
Better still, the colts receive revenue from other events held there as well - concerts, Final Fours, Super Bowls, conventions. Yay capitalism!
When Colts fans start talking to me, I generally respond by saying that when Jim Irsay pays for a new shop for my business, I'll think about supporting his team.
(By the way, it was conservative fiscal genius Mitch Daniels who stepped in to get the deal between city and team done.)
The team contributes nothing for maintenance or operating costs. The city even pays to staff the concession stands, parking lots, and security. The colts receive all of the revenue from every aspect.
Better still, the colts receive revenue from other events held there as well - concerts, Final Fours, Super Bowls, conventions. Yay capitalism!
When Colts fans start talking to me, I generally respond by saying that when Jim Irsay pays for a new shop for my business, I'll think about supporting his team.
(By the way, it was conservative fiscal genius Mitch Daniels who stepped in to get the deal between city and team done.)
4
Stadiums are money losers. Google will point to a host of articles from the NYT to WSJ to Forbes with one common theme - stadiums are for suckers.
As many others here have pointed out, it's all bread and circuses, with the promoters smiling all the way to the bank. I would have thought Vegas of all places would understand the mathematics of the money.
As many others here have pointed out, it's all bread and circuses, with the promoters smiling all the way to the bank. I would have thought Vegas of all places would understand the mathematics of the money.
1
Let the rubes be their own victims: everyone knows the great "capitalists" are really greater socialists.
2
It's amazing. Politicians who decry welfare mothers and argue against better schools or stronger healthcare because of fiscal responsibility will turn around and pay for a billion dollar sports stadium that will mire their constituents in debt for the next generation or two. Whatever happened to fiscal conservatives? Did they ever exist or was it all an illusion? It's just amazing.
6
In the face of rabid public support and enormous, "mania-" level enthusiasm, elitist snobs still somehow cling to denial, claiming that sports aren't an important thing for a community to have.
Big-time sporting events that bring tens of thousands of people together under one roof, and entire cities and states together in colors, in spirit, and in voice -- are they like food and water, necessary to sustain biological life? No. But they make life more worth living. Sports teams are a public good, just like a local symphony or art theater, but on a massively greater scale.
If you have a short memory and want video proof that sports are this kind of public good, go on YouTube and watch Mike Piazza's go-ahead home run at Shea Stadium in the first New York sporting event held after September 11, 2001.
Big-time sporting events that bring tens of thousands of people together under one roof, and entire cities and states together in colors, in spirit, and in voice -- are they like food and water, necessary to sustain biological life? No. But they make life more worth living. Sports teams are a public good, just like a local symphony or art theater, but on a massively greater scale.
If you have a short memory and want video proof that sports are this kind of public good, go on YouTube and watch Mike Piazza's go-ahead home run at Shea Stadium in the first New York sporting event held after September 11, 2001.
2
Ms. Bronson touches on something really important: the economic desert that all modern football stadiums create.
Wouldn't be so bad if it we built 'em like Ebbets Field, shoehorned into the city grid and accessible only on foot or by transit. But we don't.
AT&T Stadium, for example, sits on a 140-acre site. That's fifty city blocks. And unless there's a game or other event on, those 50 blocks generate almost zero economic activity.
Compare this with a university campus or a medical district, which generates economic activity every single day, virtually around the clock.
Vegas needs smart people more than it needs a temple built for millionaires and billionaires.
Wouldn't be so bad if it we built 'em like Ebbets Field, shoehorned into the city grid and accessible only on foot or by transit. But we don't.
AT&T Stadium, for example, sits on a 140-acre site. That's fifty city blocks. And unless there's a game or other event on, those 50 blocks generate almost zero economic activity.
Compare this with a university campus or a medical district, which generates economic activity every single day, virtually around the clock.
Vegas needs smart people more than it needs a temple built for millionaires and billionaires.
6
When Jesse Ventura was governor of MN, the owners of the MLB Twins cried for a new stadium, one without a roof. The owner of course wanted taxpayers to pay for it while he reaped the profits. Jesse said taxpayers needed to make that call as stadiums were a really bad public investment. He set up an investment account where Minnesotans could invest in the new Twins stadium. About $10k was raised and Jesse put in $5k. The public spoke loud and clear and the money was returned to those who invested. GOPer Tim Pawlenty had no problems putting the stadium albatross around taxpayers' neck. He did so at the expense of civil infrastructure. Remember the I-35w bridge collapse? It was just a day or so before the ground breaking ceremony for the Twins' new open air stadium. MN didn't have the money for proper infrastructure construction and maintenance, but it did have the money for a playground for millionaires. To be fair, Dem Mark Dayton spent tax money on the new Vikings stadium so ignorance is not limited to the GOP. At least the Vikings stadium has a roof. It is MN for gosh sakes.
2
Why doesn't Adelson just pay it all if it is so great and he wants it so bad?
2
The NFL and other sports are most of the reason people's cable bills have risen over the years. Broadcaster sports networks pay billions for the rights, and then have to pass them onto distributors and eventually TV and broadband subscribers.
In aggregate, we all pay billions to line the pockets of the players and team owners.
Las Vegas is merely one more example of a bad deal.
In aggregate, we all pay billions to line the pockets of the players and team owners.
Las Vegas is merely one more example of a bad deal.
1
No money for professional athletes. Let them build it themselves.
1
I don't mind the athletes getting paid. At least they're laying their bodies, including their brains, on the line. I really object to public money going to the empty suits of Roger Goodell's NFL.
Abusive, as usual. Corrupted as well. This is another ptoof that the rich are takers, not givers, of wealth (the taxes ordinary citizens have to pay; but do they have to?).
4
I'm sorry, but if the 83 years old Sheldon Adelson is worth $28 billion dollars, couldn't he simply do the citizens of Nevada a favor and simply use 5% of his fortune to build the whole stadium himself? He acts like he is being charitable by pitching in $750 million, when that is just a drop in the bucket for him. Just build the thing yourself, Adelson, and rent it out, for Pete's sake. You could spend $2 billion a year for the next 15 years and you'd still be a billionaire.
2
As a lifetime professional football fan and a small business owner there is nothing that enrages me more than public financing of out-sized, over designed, modern stadiums. They divert precious public funds to underwrite the construction of facilities that serve the super wealthy, corporate ticket holders and connected politicians with luxury facilities, while the average fan has to take out a second mortgage to see a game, enjoying it in the same wind, roasting heat, freezing cold and rain as they once did on open bleachers. And in the offing a game once played on muddy fields by local heroes has been turned into a play thing of billionaires fueled by yet another taxpayer-underwritten-industrial-complex driven by opportunists and played by mercenaries. Its enough to make me, a lifetime Giants fan, root for the Packers.
6
When Lambeau Field was expanded in the 1990s, yes, some of it was by the sale of stock, but the municipal, county and state governments contributed.
But the team is owned by taxpaying fans and as stadium projects go those were modest renovations as opposed to grandiose extravagances.
1
Publicly funded stadiums are nothing more than welfare for the NFL and billionaire owners. Not one publicly funded stadium has EVER delivered the jobs and economic benefits fantasized. No, they do NOTHING but cost the tax-payers wasted money. The NFL is SUCH a big business that if the teams and the league can't afford to build a stadium in an "ideal" location as part of the "free enterprise" system, then they shouldn't build it.
Remember when Mayor Bloomberg (a billionaire) tried to get Jets' owner Woody Johnson (another billionaire) to move the team to the West Side? He offered to build the Jets a $2 billion retractable-dome stadium. Would either billionaire pay for it? No! The citizens of New York City would, sticking every man, woman and child with a bill of roughly $250/person.
But that's how billionaires, especially Republican billionaires (and both Johnson and Bloomberg are--or Bloomberg was at the time) think. And now the GOP's nominee is the King of "Billionaires Getting Public Welfare"! And those fools somehow STILL think this reverse Robin Hood ("I rob from the poor and give to myself") is the answer to all their problems!
Remember when Mayor Bloomberg (a billionaire) tried to get Jets' owner Woody Johnson (another billionaire) to move the team to the West Side? He offered to build the Jets a $2 billion retractable-dome stadium. Would either billionaire pay for it? No! The citizens of New York City would, sticking every man, woman and child with a bill of roughly $250/person.
But that's how billionaires, especially Republican billionaires (and both Johnson and Bloomberg are--or Bloomberg was at the time) think. And now the GOP's nominee is the King of "Billionaires Getting Public Welfare"! And those fools somehow STILL think this reverse Robin Hood ("I rob from the poor and give to myself") is the answer to all their problems!
8
It all comes down to how much you value sports. Arts venues are also expensive and mostly publicly funded. And the same with public parks. The
Met and Central Park are big financial losers. And they're a waste to those who don't care for art museums and never get to the park. Most folks probably value the home sports team more. There just aren't that many fans of ancient sculpture and of outdoor ice skating. Public money should be spent on what most interests the public. Those with high tastes should rely mostly on patrons.
Met and Central Park are big financial losers. And they're a waste to those who don't care for art museums and never get to the park. Most folks probably value the home sports team more. There just aren't that many fans of ancient sculpture and of outdoor ice skating. Public money should be spent on what most interests the public. Those with high tastes should rely mostly on patrons.
5
The Met has over 6m visitors per year. Central park somewhere North of 35m. Hardly unpopular havens for the elite. And unlike the arts or public parks, football is a highly profitable commercial enterprise, which makes taxpayer subsidies much harder to justify.
4
I'd be ready to bet than Central Park sees way more visitors than any stadium in the country. This comparison is just ludicrous. Central park provides a breath of fresh air, welcome greenery and vegetation, and a recreation area to all New-Yorkers and tourists alike. How does a stadium do that? Would there be rows of multimillion-dollar condo skyscrapers if the view was Giants stadium?
Which investor pockets the money that goes to museums or parks? From the article, "the public will not share in ANY stadium profits". Public funding of such a stadium is a loosing deal and should not be allowed period.
Which investor pockets the money that goes to museums or parks? From the article, "the public will not share in ANY stadium profits". Public funding of such a stadium is a loosing deal and should not be allowed period.
3
Tax money should be spent on what government needs to do. Subsidizing billionaires isn't what government needs to do.
3
It really says a lot for our culture and priorities when we spend 2 billion dollars for a facility that will be used just 46 times a year while we refuse to provide education, healthcare, nutrition, shelter to the young and infirm of our population.
84
The populace has not made this mistake - it is the legislators. For them it is not a mistake at all - they benefit from the beneficiaries of the decision, billionaire sports team owners.
4
Consider enlisting Harry Reid's help. He's retiring, presumably to go home to Nevada. There's absolutely nobody in this country better at stonewalling something popular than ol' Harry.
3
You say that like it's a bad thing. I thought Republicans hated efficient governments.
Popular? How do we know its popular? This seems to be the perfect thing a sto having a referendum and letting the public decide rather than just politicos.
Oh please, you can talk about Harry Reid and stonewalling when Mitch McConnell and Senate Republicans vote on Judge Garland.
And a vote AFTER HRC gets elected doesn't count.
And a vote AFTER HRC gets elected doesn't count.
1
Billions for billionaires - not one cent for infrastructure.
Here's an idea: if government subsidies are so bad- how ablet the free market capitalists build their own ego- driven palaces? They get all the profits - shouldn't they shoulder some of the risk?
Here's an idea: if government subsidies are so bad- how ablet the free market capitalists build their own ego- driven palaces? They get all the profits - shouldn't they shoulder some of the risk?
69
They should shoulder all of the risk.
2
Jobs, tax dollars can be considered profits also which benefit government the public. Infrastructure or building a stadium means jobs. tax on tickets brings dollars for roads education etc. Say $10 every ticket sold funneled into a fund only to be spent on that? Also ther estill would be other taxes including on hotel rooms, sales tax, meal taxes and booze tax. It would also bring a waiting crowd to spend even more at gambling. I would say, the Raiders offering 500mil and Adelson offering 650mil are shouldering risk. What risk anyways? Did any NFL team lose money last year? NO!! With the NFL soon to have a team or two in Europe hence expansion will be bringing in even more dollars. Europe, what a cash cow TV market waiting to be tapped.
All the studies verify that an NFL team ends up being a losing proposition for the cities involved.
1
Don't let the Raiders raid Nevadans' wallets, or anyone else's, to pay for a new stadium. Force them to stay home in Oakland, where they belong, and pay for a new stadium themselves.
75
Why do they belong in Oakland. Its not like they have always been there. Teams can move that's why cities line-up to bid for them.
The rich and entitled tapping the public till to back-stop their gambit, eh? Why is this so surprising? Don't'cha know that in our democracy (small 'd' entirely intentional) he who has the gold makes the rules? And never-mind the fact that the taxes of the average, middle to low income, American fund the gambit. Why the never-mind? Because "gold" buys access, and access commands that self-interest always be served first. It's wonderful, ain't it, to live in a country such as America where access and command of our public servants can be so easily bought. "Public" servants indeed.
So it goes.
John~
American Net'Zen
So it goes.
John~
American Net'Zen
72
Best check the distribution of who pays taxes and how much and what they get in return. Its not that far off that almost 50% pays no Federal taxes. Who makes up for them? And who reaps the most off taxes? Its not the rich generally. Not all are like Trump. The rich get little food stamps, housing subsidies, usually privately educate their kids and most of the crime does not occur in the Clintons' hood or or other wealthy hoods, for so many cops needed.
Television viewership for the NFL is down between 1o and 15 percent this year. That fall off in viewer interest is indicative of shift in the nations football passions. These franchises sell for billions and to my knowledge no one has ever lost money owning an NFL franchise. The only losers are the citizens who never get out from under the stadium debt. And make no mistake, before the stadium is paid off the franchise owners will threaten to move the franchise to the greener pastures of another city with better tax breaks and more free money. Wise up and tell these con artists to pound sand. Vegas is the home of the supposed smart money; prove that to be true and don't bet on a franchise. It's a suckers bet.
128
The billionaire owners of the new team will probably not pay taxes.
95
Adelson with his casinos generates how many tax dollars? A 650mil investment may not be a tax but it is still money going to a public project.
The con is always saying the 'community' will receive benefits from a new stadium. The reality is that the stadiums are closed ecosystems designed to extract money from patrons and move it into the pockets of the owners, not the little guys in the neighborhood.
115
Kinda like casinos.
Jobs don't go to the little guy? YOU think Adelson will build this stadium himself? All business gets money from consumers who used the services or buy the products, be it the NFL or Toys R Us.
The money is extracted from all of us, not just the patrons.
All Tax Free!
20
Might as well call it Trump Stadium
Tax free? No sales tax on tickets? Hotel rooms, & meals? This would bring in much tax dollars.
I never get this. 2 billion? Why can't Las Vegas just buy the stupid team. And don't tell me it has to be in "private" hands. Professional sports are the most subsidized industry out there. This is a goldmine-shaft division where the NFL gets the goldmine deal and the public gets the shaft.
93
As I understand it the league ruled out city ownership of teams at some point. The only city to own a team is Green Bay. Please correct me if this is wrong.
1
I agree wholeheartedly!
if this was such a great moneymaker Adleson would buy it himself and run the business.
so clear citizens lose on these deals time and time again.
here in Cincinnati, after negotiating a deal with the Bengals, or commissioner immediately went on the trans payroll
how this want a conflict of interest is amazing
if this was such a great moneymaker Adleson would buy it himself and run the business.
so clear citizens lose on these deals time and time again.
here in Cincinnati, after negotiating a deal with the Bengals, or commissioner immediately went on the trans payroll
how this want a conflict of interest is amazing
See Green Bay ownership.
The idea that sports fanaticism or politicians' false hopes for the economy are the main factors in a yes vote on the stadium suggests people are stupid. They can't see the obvious bad results time after time in other cities.
That kind of blindness is not the cause. Look a little deeper into the motives of legislators.
That kind of blindness is not the cause. Look a little deeper into the motives of legislators.
42
Yeah Green Bay, Minnesota etc where stadiums have been built really makes the majority of the public that wanted them stupid because YOU say so. With so much media available, there are many looking into political motives. Nevada has how many papers and TV stations from every political side? Put it to the vote is a GOOD idea.
Jim CT: Yes, indeed.
Las Vegas should consider getting involved with the 30-year old National Lacrosse League, the top-tier league in lacrosse. The NLL plays box lacrosse and its players are the best lacrosse players in the world (field or box lacrosse). Box lacrosse is the National Summer Sport of Canada and is played indoors in hockey rinks but without ice. Indeed, the sport was invented in Canada as a way to use hockey rinks when hockey season is over. The NLL season runs for about 5 months starting in the end of December. So, during the NHL season, the Las Vegas NHL team's rink can serve as an NLL field thus bringing in more money. And, while the league does not have much name recognition, it works in new markets when properly promoted. Last season, the Saskatchewan Rush of Saskatoon Saskatchewan Canada (a city smaller than Las Vegas) played its first season to sold-out arenas. This sort of success has occurred in other cities as well. Part of the success derives from the excitement. In the NLL, a typical game involves on average about 25 goals unlike hockey which maybe averages 4 or 5.
Anyway, this is something the people of Las Vegas should consider regarding giving Las Vegas a team in a top-tier sports league that is cheap to operate and with no new arenas to be built.
http://www.nll.com
Anyway, this is something the people of Las Vegas should consider regarding giving Las Vegas a team in a top-tier sports league that is cheap to operate and with no new arenas to be built.
http://www.nll.com
11
Apparently you don't have a very good understanding of the business of indoor sports of which football the NFL and CFL is not a part.
As to the National Sports of Canada...
http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/n-16.7/page-1.html
====
National Sports of Canada Act
S.C. 1994, c. 16
Assented to 1994-05-12
...National Sports of Canada...
2 The game commonly known as ice hockey is hereby recognized and declared to be the national winter sport of Canada and the game commonly known as lacrosse is hereby recognized and declared to be the national summer sport of Canada.
====
As for indoor league sports attendance, the average attendance of an NLL game is about 10000 but only the NHL and then the NBA have higher attendances.
Please do your due diligence, eh?
As to the National Sports of Canada...
http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/n-16.7/page-1.html
====
National Sports of Canada Act
S.C. 1994, c. 16
Assented to 1994-05-12
...National Sports of Canada...
2 The game commonly known as ice hockey is hereby recognized and declared to be the national winter sport of Canada and the game commonly known as lacrosse is hereby recognized and declared to be the national summer sport of Canada.
====
As for indoor league sports attendance, the average attendance of an NLL game is about 10000 but only the NHL and then the NBA have higher attendances.
Please do your due diligence, eh?
1
The Raiders have been holding cities hostage for luxury stadiums for decades. Tell Mr. Davis he's welcome to build a stadium at his and investors expense. 1.150 billion already committed should build a remarkable structure. Nevadans do not get behind the eight ball for the Raiders. Its a sucker bet.
84
And why not just build a new stadium in Oakland, where they have access by freeway and BART, not to mention an established fan base?
2
This don't sound like free market capitalism to me.
Sounds more like welfare for the rich.
Sounds more like welfare for the rich.
223
The use of public funds for a stadium in Las Vegas is a necessary pre-condition to create the architecture of America's dystopian future.
In the world that Mr Adleson is building, the eventually-to-be-abandoned stadium will stand as a vast, crumbling monument to the barbaric sport of football and the moral exemplar of Las Vegas, which will always remain "the cancerous heart of the American dream."
In the world that Mr Adleson is building, the eventually-to-be-abandoned stadium will stand as a vast, crumbling monument to the barbaric sport of football and the moral exemplar of Las Vegas, which will always remain "the cancerous heart of the American dream."
48
There's a reason it is jocularly known as 'Lost Wages."
Consider this NFL game day scenario, some version of which occurs every season: The temperature is in the teens. Freezing rain is forecast Fans in the seats have forked out a significant percentage of their weekly earnings to cheer for "their" team. Meanwhile, the owners watch the game in comfort in their climate-controlled sky box.
That represents the NFL for me.
That represents the NFL for me.
56
Public funding for professional sports stadiums/arenas is a losers game.
It creates no economic growth
It does not create any lasting jobs
The team owners reap the benefits of a new stadium and it's revenue
The citizens get the bill and the risk
Bread and circuses
It creates no economic growth
It does not create any lasting jobs
The team owners reap the benefits of a new stadium and it's revenue
The citizens get the bill and the risk
Bread and circuses
170
Given what we are learning about concussions, a new stadium might outlive professional football as it is currently played. That would be a rather ironic outcome indeed, the stadium nothing but a memorial to an antiquated contest of violence deemed to dangerous to play.
52
Hello All:
If Adelson wants it so badly, let him pay for it. He can afford it.
And how about some federal legislation that guarantees if the public funds some part of a stadium, it receives a commensurate portion of the profit?
Cheers,
Jeff Pucillo
If Adelson wants it so badly, let him pay for it. He can afford it.
And how about some federal legislation that guarantees if the public funds some part of a stadium, it receives a commensurate portion of the profit?
Cheers,
Jeff Pucillo
207
Really. He could just cut to the chase and instead of buying politicians, fund the stadium himself.
Las Vegans, "No" is the word you want here. Ask the folks in St. Louis.
Personally, I'm having a harder time watching the games...they are interrupted repeatedly by penalties and the games lack a cadence. Based on the fact that ratings are apparently going south, I'm not alone.
Las Vegans, "No" is the word you want here. Ask the folks in St. Louis.
Personally, I'm having a harder time watching the games...they are interrupted repeatedly by penalties and the games lack a cadence. Based on the fact that ratings are apparently going south, I'm not alone.
1
No more public money for professional sports. Private investment is available and profitable. We taxpayers like our sports and will pay for it. But we also need our potholes fixed.
311
Be careful what you ask for. You may get it. I'm not talking about football. I'm talking about the NFL. It's a shakedown artist that never quits shaking.
104
If you want to play a game and you need a stadium, build is it with your own money and leave the taxpayers out of it! Billionaires engaged in extortion should be arrested. This is true whether it's a health insurance company like Aetna or football team owners. It's time to take a stand.
164
No Aetna YOU pay for that open heart surgery or needed operations for YOUR family. Health care should be free? When doctors, nursers and the medical industry works for nothing let me know. Tell that to middle class Americans who own stocks in heath care companies including Aetna.
God forbid the people are permitted to vote on the proposal. this is what the politicians and promoters of the NFL(and the MLB) did in st. louis. the politicians do everything in the world to make certain the people do not get to vote. the payoffs to the "leaders" in the community are too big to risk a public vote.
68
The voters in Boston managed to derail the Boston 2024 Olympic bid, even after it was pretty much a sure-thing. So there's some hope that the government will be forced to provide a popular referendum on the item.
Luckily, in the Internet Age, the information about profits, losses, tax burdens, payoffs, bribery, corruption, etc., is readily available for just about any issue you want to ponder. It was obvious to the voters in Boston that there has not been a single Olympics event in living memory that has actually benefited the taxpayers. The same is true for all the NFL venues. The Truth is Out There.
Luckily, in the Internet Age, the information about profits, losses, tax burdens, payoffs, bribery, corruption, etc., is readily available for just about any issue you want to ponder. It was obvious to the voters in Boston that there has not been a single Olympics event in living memory that has actually benefited the taxpayers. The same is true for all the NFL venues. The Truth is Out There.
1
San Diego, my hometown, has too few police officers, pot-holed streets, homeless at record levels with the winter shelter closed down because 'we solved the permanent housing problem" according to the mayor, while listeners scratched their heads, and wondered, "we did?".....and yes, despite this the local paper and local power sycophants and pawns want us to cough up hundreds of millions more for the Gene Spanos family, one of the 300 wealthiest billionaires in the world. Not the nation, mind you. But in the world.
They need a stadium. Because you can't sell a team for a colossal, wet-your-pants windfall, without a stadium of their very own. Poor, poor billionaires.
Many have said: How can I help?
Well, as it turns out, San Diegans have already shown the way! They built a stadium for the Padres, which the owners, the Moores, promptly sold right away. A third rate team...for billions!
George Bush never made money on anything he did, until he got involved with getting a tax payer financed stadium for the Texas Rangers. Then? It was shazaamm! he found the motherlode: The American Tax Payer! They're idiots! They want to give money to the richest people they can possibly find!
And so...we continue. A great, great country. Which will be made great again, soon, by another outstanding billionaire: Donald Trump.
We can count on 'em.
Can't we?
Billionaires.
Billionaires.
Billionaires.
Billionaires.
Billionaires.
Just say it until you love it. It's easier that way.
They need a stadium. Because you can't sell a team for a colossal, wet-your-pants windfall, without a stadium of their very own. Poor, poor billionaires.
Many have said: How can I help?
Well, as it turns out, San Diegans have already shown the way! They built a stadium for the Padres, which the owners, the Moores, promptly sold right away. A third rate team...for billions!
George Bush never made money on anything he did, until he got involved with getting a tax payer financed stadium for the Texas Rangers. Then? It was shazaamm! he found the motherlode: The American Tax Payer! They're idiots! They want to give money to the richest people they can possibly find!
And so...we continue. A great, great country. Which will be made great again, soon, by another outstanding billionaire: Donald Trump.
We can count on 'em.
Can't we?
Billionaires.
Billionaires.
Billionaires.
Billionaires.
Billionaires.
Just say it until you love it. It's easier that way.
230
Love the allusion to "Die Leiden des Jungen Werther."
1
Taxpayers in Minnesota recently got hosed by our elected officials. Price yet to be completely determined. No referendums, no way to fight it. Meanwhile, as an outreach worker in Minneapolis, I watch homeless children wander our streets. Winter is coming.
202
For the new Viking Stadium, The Wilfs made closed door deals, threatened to move the team and demanded an indoor stadium even though polls showed the fans wanted an open air stadium. Unfortunately an open air stadium would not make the returns the Wilfs needed on their investment. While they put up a nice sum to build Wilf Stadium, the taxpayer was still fleeced without a say in the decision. I guess when the Stars left over an $18 million upgrade request by Norm Green the sting stung so bad the frozen tundra people were willing to fork over their future so a few rich men could get richer. Minnesota Nice, Minnesota not so bright.
5
For the Vikings the Wilfs made closed door deals, threatened to move the team and demanded an indoor stadium even though polls showed the fans wanted an open air stadium. Unfortunately an open air stadium would not make the returns the Wilfs needed on their investment. While they put up a nice sum to build Wilf Stadium, the taxpayer was still fleeced without a say in the decision.
I guess when the Stars left over an $18 million upgrade request by Norm Green the sting stung so bad the frozen tundra people were willing to fork over their future so a few rich men. Minnesota Nice, Minnesota not so bright.
I guess when the Stars left over an $18 million upgrade request by Norm Green the sting stung so bad the frozen tundra people were willing to fork over their future so a few rich men. Minnesota Nice, Minnesota not so bright.
Taxpayers in {every city} routinely get hosed by their elected officials. Yet we never seem to learn the basic lesson, which should be: Don't Let Elected Officials Decide To Spend Your Money.
1
Minus the Bread.