Call the cops when a mentally ill or senile relative is agitated, and the cops will come by and kill them for you.
Call the police when you've been raped, and get treated as a liar and a suspect. Watch your rape kit sit for years.
Call the cops when your husband has hurt you and they will tell him to calm down, buddy, ask you what you want them to do, lady, and jet off again without even confiscating the (now very angry) husband's guns for a night.
Call the cops on a neighbor for any reason, and 25 roided-up SWAT guys with body armor and military hardware will batter down the door, aim automatic weapons at their kids, and trash their house. (Pray they get the right address.)
Call the cops when you've been robbed, and they will take a report.
Call the cops when someone's murdered (say an abused wife and children by a husband they've visited a dozen times), and they will come photograph the bodies.
Call the cops on a homeless person who irritates you, and they will be beaten up and hauled off.
Call the cops during a mass shooting, and they will assemble outside the perimeter for an hour or two, until the gunfire stops and it's safe to go in.
No, I'm not being fair. There are plenty of cops who will talk down a mentally ill person, collect evidence in a rape case, intervene in domestic violence situations, treat the homeless with compassion, risk their lives to save others, and do actual police work. But if you get the other kind, it is worse than no help at all.
Call the police when you've been raped, and get treated as a liar and a suspect. Watch your rape kit sit for years.
Call the cops when your husband has hurt you and they will tell him to calm down, buddy, ask you what you want them to do, lady, and jet off again without even confiscating the (now very angry) husband's guns for a night.
Call the cops on a neighbor for any reason, and 25 roided-up SWAT guys with body armor and military hardware will batter down the door, aim automatic weapons at their kids, and trash their house. (Pray they get the right address.)
Call the cops when you've been robbed, and they will take a report.
Call the cops when someone's murdered (say an abused wife and children by a husband they've visited a dozen times), and they will come photograph the bodies.
Call the cops on a homeless person who irritates you, and they will be beaten up and hauled off.
Call the cops during a mass shooting, and they will assemble outside the perimeter for an hour or two, until the gunfire stops and it's safe to go in.
No, I'm not being fair. There are plenty of cops who will talk down a mentally ill person, collect evidence in a rape case, intervene in domestic violence situations, treat the homeless with compassion, risk their lives to save others, and do actual police work. But if you get the other kind, it is worse than no help at all.
98
It's time to recognize that when criminals are taken down, that is good for the community. If a police officer commits a crime, he/she will be brought to justice. Just do not think that taking down a violent person is bad policing.
9
Of those 700 people killed by police this year we over 500 are not black. It seems we only hear a black man getting killed by police. Is everybody else guilty? And in almost all of those the subjects were not innocent of a crime.
I think we should talk about the well over 15,000 people that are killed every year by "others".
That's what the police deal with and that's the problem.
I think we should talk about the well over 15,000 people that are killed every year by "others".
That's what the police deal with and that's the problem.
24
The police do receive better training then what they are displaying. The problem is that they aren't using it. They aren't using non lethal methods. They aren't using their Tasers. They are only killing which is not acceptable.
13
This seems like a careful social-scientific study. Although it is not and could not be based on a controlled experiment, it teases apart the effects of police violence against blacks in Milwaukee.
On the other hand, Heather MacDonald's influential book seems based on a hypothesis, which she supports with limited and selective evidence. She focuses on the "Ferguson Effect" which occurred in 2014. She could have examined what happened after the Rodney King incident and many others previous to Ferguson. She could also have examined alternative hypotheses, such this one by Mathew Desmond and Andrew Papachristou. As Sherlock Holmes once wrote: "It is a capital mistake to hypothesize in advance of the facts."
The title of her book is "The War on Cops", which suggests that blacks are intentionally shooting and killing cops. She no doubt would blame her publisher for that title, since in selling books, many engage in what Donald Trump calls "truthful hyperbole". But she could have over-ruled them.
Like many other publicists and public intellectuals, Heather MacDonald works for a conservative think-tank called the Manhattan Institute. America used to have outstanding public intellectuals, such as Edmund Wilson and Walter Lippmann--men and women of independence, intellectual power, and integrity.
On the other hand, Heather MacDonald's influential book seems based on a hypothesis, which she supports with limited and selective evidence. She focuses on the "Ferguson Effect" which occurred in 2014. She could have examined what happened after the Rodney King incident and many others previous to Ferguson. She could also have examined alternative hypotheses, such this one by Mathew Desmond and Andrew Papachristou. As Sherlock Holmes once wrote: "It is a capital mistake to hypothesize in advance of the facts."
The title of her book is "The War on Cops", which suggests that blacks are intentionally shooting and killing cops. She no doubt would blame her publisher for that title, since in selling books, many engage in what Donald Trump calls "truthful hyperbole". But she could have over-ruled them.
Like many other publicists and public intellectuals, Heather MacDonald works for a conservative think-tank called the Manhattan Institute. America used to have outstanding public intellectuals, such as Edmund Wilson and Walter Lippmann--men and women of independence, intellectual power, and integrity.
10
I'm white and the last time I called the police (about 20 years ago) did not go well. Short version, a wacko neighbor threatened harm to my 8 year old son and a group of other children playing in the neighborhood. His remark was vicious and violent. My husband was out of town so I called his brother, a former police officer, for advice. He suggested calling local police to get the threat on record. Well, it turned into a he said, she said, and because I was working in the yard with hedge clippers when the threat occurred, and I had no witnesses (apart from 8 year olds), my stepping in to prevent further confrontation by sending all the children home was deemed a felony by the police officers responding. The female officer did notice my reaction- sheer horror- and went back to defuse the wacko and the wacko's wife charges and I was not arrested. But, boy, never again.
30
If no one will call the police because they no longer trust the policemen, then the police have become useless to that community. They are no longer expected to protect but to only hurt and damage based on real experience. We might not remember the name, but we collectively remember the incidence. Why can't communities withdraw a portion of the taxes they pay for general policing and create and hire their own community police force. Police who work for that community and can be fired for this form of mistreatment. Police hired based on the standards of that community.
No other police allowed in that community.
No other police allowed in that community.
28
If a group like the Black Panthers or the Hells Angels were killing people at the rate of 3 per day there would be a hue and cry going up from the populace that would be Biblical. But since the victims are primarily young black men and the killers are primarily white police officers the populace yawns. Or even worse, blames the victim and their communities. How often do we hear that black young men are killing far more black young men than white cops?
That people can even stretch to that false equivalence shows how far we have left to go in our National racial struggle.
One thing that rarely gets mentioned though is the Nation's lack of adequate funding for our basic services and needs.
We are trying to run this vast enterprise of a Nation on the very very cheap. Funding for our local services are as apt to come from licensing fees or fines as they are from taxes collected from those who can best afford them.
We don't have the money to pay our first responders what they need, and deserve, and that includes teachers and health care providers.
Until We the People stand up and demand a full share from each and every citizen of the Nation, we will continue to see our Country slide into 3rd World status.
That people can even stretch to that false equivalence shows how far we have left to go in our National racial struggle.
One thing that rarely gets mentioned though is the Nation's lack of adequate funding for our basic services and needs.
We are trying to run this vast enterprise of a Nation on the very very cheap. Funding for our local services are as apt to come from licensing fees or fines as they are from taxes collected from those who can best afford them.
We don't have the money to pay our first responders what they need, and deserve, and that includes teachers and health care providers.
Until We the People stand up and demand a full share from each and every citizen of the Nation, we will continue to see our Country slide into 3rd World status.
15
I'm not Black, but I lived in a South L.A. for a few years, and I saw the arrogance and blatant disrespect many police officers have for Black residents. Sure, most police officers are good people, and very good cops; but many of them come to the job with a set of skills mostly honed in the armed forces, every interaction with a suspect is treated as a life-threatening confrontation with the enemy. Also, many police officers are under-educated. Most police departments require only a high school education for jobs that demand a high degree of analytical thinking, reasoning, and the ability to engage in quick and logical assessment of any given situation.
The only way to remedy the current problem is to redesign the recruitment, training, and monitoring of our police officers. Unfortunately, all the studies, and data collection will amount to nothing, unless there is the will to change an untenable situation, and I'm sorry to say, I don't think the collective will is there, yet.
The only way to remedy the current problem is to redesign the recruitment, training, and monitoring of our police officers. Unfortunately, all the studies, and data collection will amount to nothing, unless there is the will to change an untenable situation, and I'm sorry to say, I don't think the collective will is there, yet.
65
As other commenters have said, it's not just black people who don't want to call the police. Many of us have reached the same conclusion. It's just not worth the risk in most cases. EMTs are trusted, police are not.
Many people of all backgrounds can describe milder encounters where law enforcement was aggressive and used the encounter to investigate and interrogate them on other issues for no good reason.
When my (mostly white) friends and family talk about this - whether it's in California or in Texas (my home state) a the comments are the same: they only call police as a last resort. They respect the police like respecting a large randomly aggressive dog, as something to give a wide berth. They say there are many good cops but too many bad ones.
Everyone has negative stories. Anecdotally in my circle California seems to be better/mixed good and bad stories; Texas stories seem almost universally negative.
Those family and friends with the most experience with law enforcement - including some who are LEOs themselves - are the most vehement about avoiding police contact if at all possible.
This is not a good situation for the country. Law enforcement needs more effective training, and better ways to remove bad actors from their ranks.
Many people of all backgrounds can describe milder encounters where law enforcement was aggressive and used the encounter to investigate and interrogate them on other issues for no good reason.
When my (mostly white) friends and family talk about this - whether it's in California or in Texas (my home state) a the comments are the same: they only call police as a last resort. They respect the police like respecting a large randomly aggressive dog, as something to give a wide berth. They say there are many good cops but too many bad ones.
Everyone has negative stories. Anecdotally in my circle California seems to be better/mixed good and bad stories; Texas stories seem almost universally negative.
Those family and friends with the most experience with law enforcement - including some who are LEOs themselves - are the most vehement about avoiding police contact if at all possible.
This is not a good situation for the country. Law enforcement needs more effective training, and better ways to remove bad actors from their ranks.
20
You can NOT just call the cops anymore for anything. They require that you give them ALL of your personal information, including date of birth, just to report something.
If you've got current or past issues with the police and or legal system, you just don't get involved. It's not worth it. Who wants to be subpoenaed to court as a witness?
If you've got current or past issues with the police and or legal system, you just don't get involved. It's not worth it. Who wants to be subpoenaed to court as a witness?
16
I did not think this would happen here when I came here to carve out a decent life, and live honestly, from a socialist, third world country.
When I was a kid in India (1970s, very early 1980s), living in Bombay, every kid knew one thing: "no matter what happens, get away from cops." The local and very prevalent thuggary that hung around the street corners, could be reasoned with, bought off. They laid off once they got what they wanted.
Not the cops. Once they came in, they moved in. They bludgeoned everyone - often the most defenseless, and a mix of culpable and innocents. Their protection racket never ended; they would show up at your business, your home, and demand money. Or beat you up. There was no one to go to. No recourse. I remember the powerlessness I felt in my youth while trying to work in legitimate businesses; the cops had to be paid off. Period.
But it was not just money. I saw the police riot in Bombay, shoot up innocents. I saw the police beat up Sikhs in 1984 - just for being present. Beat up low cast Hindus. Beat up the poor, uneducated, slum dwellers. I saw the Gestapo tactics; while they served as the protectors of the underworld, corrupt politicians, and large businesses.
This was the India I wanted to get away from. I thought I had. I guess I didn't, did I?
Kalidan
When I was a kid in India (1970s, very early 1980s), living in Bombay, every kid knew one thing: "no matter what happens, get away from cops." The local and very prevalent thuggary that hung around the street corners, could be reasoned with, bought off. They laid off once they got what they wanted.
Not the cops. Once they came in, they moved in. They bludgeoned everyone - often the most defenseless, and a mix of culpable and innocents. Their protection racket never ended; they would show up at your business, your home, and demand money. Or beat you up. There was no one to go to. No recourse. I remember the powerlessness I felt in my youth while trying to work in legitimate businesses; the cops had to be paid off. Period.
But it was not just money. I saw the police riot in Bombay, shoot up innocents. I saw the police beat up Sikhs in 1984 - just for being present. Beat up low cast Hindus. Beat up the poor, uneducated, slum dwellers. I saw the Gestapo tactics; while they served as the protectors of the underworld, corrupt politicians, and large businesses.
This was the India I wanted to get away from. I thought I had. I guess I didn't, did I?
Kalidan
74
It appears our "progressives" are desperate to blame the 10% increase in murders on anything but the Occam's razor's obvious conclusion - BLM, riots, and demonetization of police has resulted in more cautious policing.
This study is bunk, it starts with a statistic 804 people killed by police since the beginning of the year. Then proceeds to talk only about the black community, implying that the 804 were all black when the majority were white.
This study is bunk, it starts with a statistic 804 people killed by police since the beginning of the year. Then proceeds to talk only about the black community, implying that the 804 were all black when the majority were white.
20
Unfortunately, there are no national training standards for police officers. Until policing is recognized as a paramilitary force, we shall continue to see behavior that undermines public confidence in police.
10
"Since the year began, police officers have killed 804 people, roughly three a day." Yet, during this same period, 8,638 Americans shot each other to death. That is astonishing number among Western countries. Our law enforcement reflects our violent culture, yet time and time again we have press and protesters claiming it's simply a policing issue.
20
I have two black sons aged 18. Until recently, I would have called the police (I'm white and always assumed the police were here to protect and help). Now, my husband and I have decided that we would never, ever, ever approach the police for anything. Never call them, never talk to them. We expect the worst from them. We recently saw it born out against one of our white male neighbors, with the multiple layers of the court system siding with the cops' lies. Because we have black sons, and my husband is black, we can't run the risk of one of these panicky cops shooting us.
99
The "Judge Dredd" policy of making the police judges, jury, and executioners is not working for today's African-American communities. When the police persons instinctual option is to murder the likely offender, their aid in difficult situations merely escalates the danger rather than controlling the situation.
Who would welcome the executioner of their own demise?
Who would welcome the executioner of their own demise?
34
The Manhattan Institute is a very conservative (though not quite alt-right) think tank based here in NYC. When I was a student at Hunter College I took a class with one of their founders. The Institute has an agenda, and then brings in scholars who share it, and who then in turn assemble and arrange data in way that corroborates the Institute's core beliefs. They've attained a legitimacy that I, for one, don't think they deserve. Thanks for exposing the weaknesses in Ms. MacDonald's "notions."
18
Can the recent rise in violent crime -- which so excites conservatives eager to return to a "law and order" justice system and stop-and-frisk -- have anything to do with the availability of guns? The NRA probably has an answer to that question but can't be asked now that it's taken over both houses of Congress.
14
Police training has apparently focused on using overwhelming force in all situations,treating minorities and poor people as dangerous in all situations. Even "parking while Black" is an offense in Milwaukee. I am curious about the psychological profiles of people drawn to police work. Given the type of policing now done, what type of people want to be police officers? The problem may begin there.
15
This discouragement effect applies not just to African-Americans and serious violent crime, but much more widely.
Just to preface this, I am white and have lots of kin with law enforcement experience. So I am well aware of all points of view.
Having been the victim of several minor property crimes, I am reluctant to report such crimes when I know the perp is black. Does my need for redress exceed my concern that reporting someone sends them into a fundamentally unjust legal system? Usually not.
There was a recent incident of a mugging near the backside of our property involving some black youth that I did report -- a clear case of black-on-black crime that is often invoked by those who criticize police critics. I won't stand for ignoring violence against another.
The officers arrived soon enough, although did not catch anyone in the act. They did find the victim, who to no surprise was visibly injured, but who refused to provide them with any info on the perps. Will his grievance be settled on the street? More likely than it being settled in court.
And that's the issue -- lost faith in a justice system so badly skewed by the political posturing of "tough on crime" politicians. Yeah, I know an anti-crime politician is an oxymoron, considering the ethical challenges most of them have, like beating up on poor folks to get elected. But that's what we get so long as we tolerate wholesale systemic injustice in order to too zealously pursue retail level crime.
Just to preface this, I am white and have lots of kin with law enforcement experience. So I am well aware of all points of view.
Having been the victim of several minor property crimes, I am reluctant to report such crimes when I know the perp is black. Does my need for redress exceed my concern that reporting someone sends them into a fundamentally unjust legal system? Usually not.
There was a recent incident of a mugging near the backside of our property involving some black youth that I did report -- a clear case of black-on-black crime that is often invoked by those who criticize police critics. I won't stand for ignoring violence against another.
The officers arrived soon enough, although did not catch anyone in the act. They did find the victim, who to no surprise was visibly injured, but who refused to provide them with any info on the perps. Will his grievance be settled on the street? More likely than it being settled in court.
And that's the issue -- lost faith in a justice system so badly skewed by the political posturing of "tough on crime" politicians. Yeah, I know an anti-crime politician is an oxymoron, considering the ethical challenges most of them have, like beating up on poor folks to get elected. But that's what we get so long as we tolerate wholesale systemic injustice in order to too zealously pursue retail level crime.
7
Lost faith in a justice system? Bunk! How about fear of retaliation? Law abiding Black folks who are brave enough to help the police all too often put themselves at risk... Not from the police, from the bad guys. So let's stop with crazy over the top leftist narrative...
9
It is clear that the American police are poorly trained, use excessive force, and probably have serious issues with racial attitudes. Those justifying police shootings of unarmed men just betray the same cultural attitudes that make the American police a byword for ineptness and brutality in other countries. You shoot just because you "feel" threatened? All civilized countries have laws against use of excessive force, even in self-defense. And if all you want is to get back home to your family in safety, you shouldn't be a police officer. It's a dangerous job but nobody forces you to do it. All said, however, the relationship between police brutality and increase in crime is more complex than the simplistic model offered in this article.
3
Another racial policing article omitting Asian perspective. Why aren't there Asian versions of Michael Brown?
21
The real Ferguson effect. Yep, the US has a cop problem.
5
Susan e ... I couldn't agree with you more. My classmates who became police were not the best and brightest, and ... they were bullies. Nothing like having a badge and gun to make that legitimate. Sad ...
18
You think it's a job for bookworms?
5
Sociologists DROWN in statistics ( and live to tell more) while others get killed by bullets.
9
I am white and live in a mostly white town and have never even had a speeding ticket, but even I fear the police, so I can only imagine what it is like for those of color right now, especially young men. We are a nation at war with each other and we live in a culture of mistrust and suspicion. The causes of this are multi-dimensional and systemic, therefore the solutions must be as well. I don't have much faith that we will make much progress any time soon, but I do know that Trump will only make things worse-much, much worse.
25
" I can only imagine what it is like for those of color right now, especially young men."
Yet black males, who comprise only 7% of the US population commit a disproportionate 50+% of all crimes so why should the police not be suspicious of them?
Yet black males, who comprise only 7% of the US population commit a disproportionate 50+% of all crimes so why should the police not be suspicious of them?
15
The ill-reasoning and lack of knowledge of this author and social scientist is pathetic. First, it is simply ignorance for someone not call the police when he or she has been victimized by a crime in this country. This is not Somalia. The author's reasoning would is that the victim is too horrified by the idea that the perpetrator might possibly suffer some form of police injustice while being arrested. Get real. Second, suppose someone just witness a neighbor being victimized-perhaps raped or murdered-but the witness is too terrified by the idea that the police might possibly become overly aggressive in making an arrest to call police. Try this idea: people who do not report their own victimizations or the victimizations of others they have witnessed is due to the fear of retaliation among the perpetrators. I'm not denying that there are some legitimate historical issues that have created a degree of mistrust of police in black communities. And in a rhetorical discussion among family or neighbors one might express such fear of police. But when it comes to oneself being victimized or witnessing a victimization and not calling police because of fear of police tactics on the perpetrator, you've entered the surreal.
22
They aren't afraid the PERPETRATOR might suffer violence; they are afraid THEY will suffer violence from the police. Remember the person in South Carolina who reached into his car for his wallet when ordered to do so and was shot by the officer? And the person in Kettering, Ohio, who was not shot but was stopped by an officer because he "made prolonged eye contact" while driving past the officer?
16
If every police department in the country would have the moral guts to test each officer for psycopathalogical disorders and other potentially dangerous mental disorders the killer cops would be weeded out and removed from the society they are sworn to protect. Trust a cop today? Are you kidding.
13
If all the conscientious police officers would report their out-of-control colleagues, they could also be weeded out.
21
Some people avoid air travel after a well-publicized aviation disaster even though the probability of a crash hasn't changed, and could not logically have changed given the infrequent but inevitable occurrence of such rare events. The research outlined in this article is interesting. If police aren't changing their behavior but crime is skyrocketing because blacks are changing theirs, that's a cognitive bias. An overreaction that is suboptimal for their communities. The authors conclude that police practices are tearing these communities apart, but it's more accurate, based on their findings, to say that the communities' prejudices toward the police, whatever their origins, are an even larger problem.
15
The fetal position that Emanuel spoke of comes from two things. One is the relentless negative publicity against the police. The second is the threat of prosecution. The Tulsa office, charged with manslaughter less than 48 hours after she shot, would not face that charge if she had just kept driving and ignored the crazy man in the street. De-policing is a real threat and the reason for the spike in crime.
11
I am a Caucasian American, born in Chicago, a USN veteran, a home & business owner.
Unlike those who we can clearly ascertain, I am neither a racist, a bigot or another genre of hater.
It is an elementary exercise for anyone with perceptive reading skills to see who those are who are racists, bigots and etc by their denigrating this article, Black people and some of the other commenters.
They see logic as "cherry picking" the truth of the murders by police of far too many Black human beings in incidents that could and SHOULD have had a far different denouement than wholesale murders.
The commenters who dispute these truths are those who are easily conned into supporting the con artist who repeated "LAW AND ORDER" ad infinitum
just the other day.
Just like this maniac, they have NO solution yet are filled to the brim with denial, racism, bigotry and hate.
I am not like that and live a far happier life.
Unlike those who we can clearly ascertain, I am neither a racist, a bigot or another genre of hater.
It is an elementary exercise for anyone with perceptive reading skills to see who those are who are racists, bigots and etc by their denigrating this article, Black people and some of the other commenters.
They see logic as "cherry picking" the truth of the murders by police of far too many Black human beings in incidents that could and SHOULD have had a far different denouement than wholesale murders.
The commenters who dispute these truths are those who are easily conned into supporting the con artist who repeated "LAW AND ORDER" ad infinitum
just the other day.
Just like this maniac, they have NO solution yet are filled to the brim with denial, racism, bigotry and hate.
I am not like that and live a far happier life.
9
At what point are black citizens allowed to "stand their ground" against abusive law enforcement?
"When citizens lose faith in the police, they are more apt to take the law into their own hands." Is this not the goal of the NRA?
"When citizens lose faith in the police, they are more apt to take the law into their own hands." Is this not the goal of the NRA?
1
I can't prove this but I doubt someone who would consider shooting a law enforcement officer is either an NRA member or in legal possession of a firearm.
4
Enough with this violent response of our police to our citizens . We need to start from the ground up in organizing this institution. Too many of police calls are to deal with mental illness issues and police don't appear trained for this. Their skills at de-escalating angry, fearful situations are sorely lacking. Only situations in which a victim threatened by an immediate assault would police be warranted to respond in a more aggressive fashion.
3
For many, the only thing worse than the police is no police and for the homeless even that is questionable at times.
2
Where is the statistical data? After citing 804 civilian deaths from police shootings there is nothing. I don't need statistics to know that Black people have been treated and still are treated in the worst possible ways and that their mistrust of the police increases after highly publicized incidents; but the underlying assumption that large numbers of Blacks are being killed because of unjustified police actions and violence by only citing the number 804 proves nothing.
It would be nice if our society at large could really figure out a way to help those people who have recently been protesting in Charlotte. They surely are not protesting nothing; something is real wrong. But the the widely published sanctimony of a condescending establishment media and the blather of elite Ivy League social scientists have as much to do with the isolation of African American communities as does the behavior of the police.
It would be nice if our society at large could really figure out a way to help those people who have recently been protesting in Charlotte. They surely are not protesting nothing; something is real wrong. But the the widely published sanctimony of a condescending establishment media and the blather of elite Ivy League social scientists have as much to do with the isolation of African American communities as does the behavior of the police.
10
Black males are responsible for 50+% of all crimes so logically should comprise at least 50% of those killed by the police but the actual figure is far less.
11
How many of those 804 deaths were black? How many were unarmed?
1
"No act of police violence is an isolated incident and it should not be treated as such"
What does that even mean? Of course acts of police violence are isolated incidents.
What does that even mean? Of course acts of police violence are isolated incidents.
10
It means that there's a systemic problem in America with how we regulate the police and in how the police interact with others, especially minorities.
10
I am a white upper middle class retiree who used to work for the government. I wouldn't call the police unless it was a dire emergency & even then I'd think twice. I don't believe all cops are bad cops or that they don't have one of the toughest most dangerous jobs in America--their work is tough & dangerous--but I also believe there are a lots of cops in every city's police force who work above the law, are brutes & thugs, racists and sexist, and it is these guys that I'm afraid of.
38
The last time I called the police (to report a raucous, late night party that spilled out of a house a few doors down into the street), after they shooed the party goers back into their house, they rang my doorbell and had me outside in my bathrobe at 2 AM so they could ask if I was the guy who called them and why. In addition to outing me in front of my drunken and boisterous neighbors, they delivered a not so subtle message: don't bother us.
25
This isn't directly on topic but it is extremely important. A very strong case has been made that the introduction of leaded gas and its subsequent elimination was responsible for the rise and then the fall of crime rates in the US and in other countries as well. The analysis by Rick Nevin has shown for many different countries, that with a delay of about a generation, the crime rate went up and then down after leaded gas was introduced and then phased out. It is quite convincing as different countries began phasing out lead at different times. The idea is that children exposed to lead during childhood and brain development are more likely to become criminals in adulthood. There is a good bit of biology in support of this contention.
http://pic.plover.com/Nevin/Nevin2007.pdf
http://blogs.edf.org/climate411/2011/02/11/there-they-go-again-oil-indus...
http://journals.plos.org/plosmedicine/article?id=10.1371/journal.pmed.00...
http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2016/02/lead-exposure-gasoline-cr...
http://pic.plover.com/Nevin/Nevin2007.pdf
http://blogs.edf.org/climate411/2011/02/11/there-they-go-again-oil-indus...
http://journals.plos.org/plosmedicine/article?id=10.1371/journal.pmed.00...
http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2016/02/lead-exposure-gasoline-cr...
7
4 suggestions for turning this problem around:
1. End the stupid unproductive war on drugs. It's never worked, it antagonizes communities where people are subject to frequent stop/frisk in a hunt for drugs (and every stop can erupt into an incident), it places police in the impossible position of having to do these things, and fosters criminal enterprises run by people carrying guns, instead of legal businesses that can be regulated and taxed.
2. Police officers must come to believe that people in the communities they police are not insurgents in a foreign war theater, but the same people that the officers are. If the police act that way, eventually more citizens will treat the officers the same way, and the result will be increased cooperation with law enforcement. (If police work is demilitarized in this way, the lesser problem of overusing surplus military equipment will be solved, too.)
3. In cities, employ citizen review boards and give them their own legal counsel.
4. Aid the police with better technology, e.g., use of small camera-equipped drones, tracking devices on all those under P&P supervision, and better analysis of data about crime and criminals. (When Apple can know where I am almost all the time, why can't law enforcement always know the locations of people under supervision and people with protective orders against them, and 911 gets pinged whenever someone's in the wrong place or with the wrong people?)
1. End the stupid unproductive war on drugs. It's never worked, it antagonizes communities where people are subject to frequent stop/frisk in a hunt for drugs (and every stop can erupt into an incident), it places police in the impossible position of having to do these things, and fosters criminal enterprises run by people carrying guns, instead of legal businesses that can be regulated and taxed.
2. Police officers must come to believe that people in the communities they police are not insurgents in a foreign war theater, but the same people that the officers are. If the police act that way, eventually more citizens will treat the officers the same way, and the result will be increased cooperation with law enforcement. (If police work is demilitarized in this way, the lesser problem of overusing surplus military equipment will be solved, too.)
3. In cities, employ citizen review boards and give them their own legal counsel.
4. Aid the police with better technology, e.g., use of small camera-equipped drones, tracking devices on all those under P&P supervision, and better analysis of data about crime and criminals. (When Apple can know where I am almost all the time, why can't law enforcement always know the locations of people under supervision and people with protective orders against them, and 911 gets pinged whenever someone's in the wrong place or with the wrong people?)
8
This discussions begins and ends with the Police themselves. Where does their mission statement, To Protect and Serve, even mean anything either to the Police or the Public.
The first failure is the inability to make a "routine" traffic stop without Killing the driver. No judge, no jury simply shot to kill for a broken tail light or changing lanes without a turn signal. This is exacerbated especially if the driver is black.
The second problem involves the weapons allowed for everyday carry within the American society. Police are really frightened of this armed individuals, remember Stand Your Ground, does that pertain to the police as well.
Until our police are trained to deal with and respect the citizens of their communities nothing will change.
The first failure is the inability to make a "routine" traffic stop without Killing the driver. No judge, no jury simply shot to kill for a broken tail light or changing lanes without a turn signal. This is exacerbated especially if the driver is black.
The second problem involves the weapons allowed for everyday carry within the American society. Police are really frightened of this armed individuals, remember Stand Your Ground, does that pertain to the police as well.
Until our police are trained to deal with and respect the citizens of their communities nothing will change.
7
"804 people killed this year. In recent weeks 2 unarmed black men were killed."
Conveniently missing is the fact the the number of whites shot was double the number of blacks shot. Also missing is the fact that in most of these cases, people shot had a criminal background and were responsible for escalating the situation with the police.
The impact on community is not because of these shootings. It is because of journalistic dishonesty that the media engages in by just covering one side of the story. Cover all the facts, and people will start feeling safe with the cops, instead of fearing them.
Conveniently missing is the fact the the number of whites shot was double the number of blacks shot. Also missing is the fact that in most of these cases, people shot had a criminal background and were responsible for escalating the situation with the police.
The impact on community is not because of these shootings. It is because of journalistic dishonesty that the media engages in by just covering one side of the story. Cover all the facts, and people will start feeling safe with the cops, instead of fearing them.
13
Look at the statistics (proportion of whites in the population and the number of unarmed who are shot); look at the fact that whites use drugs at the same rate as blacks, but blacks are arrested (pursued and prosecuted) at a much higher rate.
You are using the post-shooting rationale (the victims were bad) -- cops didn't know that when they shot the unarmed men -- they just assumed they were bad criminals because of their skin color.
You need to educate yourself and stop perpetuating racist myths of our systemic injustice against blacks.
You are using the post-shooting rationale (the victims were bad) -- cops didn't know that when they shot the unarmed men -- they just assumed they were bad criminals because of their skin color.
You need to educate yourself and stop perpetuating racist myths of our systemic injustice against blacks.
7
"Conveniently missing is the fact the the number of whites shot was double the number of blacks shot. "
And yet blacks are responsible for 50+% of all crimes but the percentage of blacks shot by the police was much less than 50%.
And yet blacks are responsible for 50+% of all crimes but the percentage of blacks shot by the police was much less than 50%.
7
I accidentally committed a crime last year. When the cops showed up at my house I greeted them and immediately admitted the mistake without being prompted. They searched my house without permission, made assumptions based on what they saw there that were baseless, and then cuffed me so hard my wrists hurt for a week. They charged me with seven offenses and told me that if I tried to fight them I might lose my permanent residency. I asked a local judge (different town) what he thought and he said well, first time offender, you'll probably get minimum fines of $40 or so.
When I arrived at the town court, I was fined nearly $2000 by a judge who took the cops' recommendations without even pausing to consider them. As I handed over my credit card, the town clerk said "fork it over", and laughed as she told me I would also be subject to a "convenience fee", which I believe is illegal in NYS.
The cops are not on your side.
When I arrived at the town court, I was fined nearly $2000 by a judge who took the cops' recommendations without even pausing to consider them. As I handed over my credit card, the town clerk said "fork it over", and laughed as she told me I would also be subject to a "convenience fee", which I believe is illegal in NYS.
The cops are not on your side.
20
Any cop who's fearful of going to work needs to find a new career. Otherwise they're just collecting a welfare check.
9
Any cop who did not have a healthy fear when at work would be mentally defective. While it is fashionable on the part of media, privileged sports and entertainment figures and academics to attack police, none of the critics will place themselves in these high-hazard situations in dealing with angry, often intoxicated or drug-fueled suspects who have no compunction about hurting whoever is conveniently present. Nor will those critics interject themselves into the interminable gang warfare which threatens citizens. Do police need to do better? Always. But the emotion-driven piling on by the cultural "elites" adds little to the discussion as to how they can do better.
15
Instead of the police- can we focus on the people for once? i.e. Why would anybody want to commit a crime against another person anyway? Why not collect that data and do something! It's gotta be more than just socio economics- I have been poor plenty of times and the last thing on my mind was hurting somebody or stealing and destroying property. And stop this liberal nonsense that a job is a fix-all for this- Not one of these thugs out there is going to stop being mean and suddenly transform into a productive member of society just because there's a job available. These idiots don't want to work because it would interfere with their destructive lifestyles!
14
I used to be a police officer. And it still comes down to; Do what the nice police officer tells you. Virtually 100% of these news stories come from the person not following the instructions of the police officer. Some, obviously, are Suicide by Cop. But in every other situation, the police officer is the authority in that situation. I don’t know what they teach in schools nowadays, but resisting or ignoring authority seems to be the norm. We still see instances of people going for a weapon and shooting the police officer. The officers’ restraint in not firing first did them little good. If you don’t want a national Blue Flu (police simply not arresting those that resist arrest) and it’s resultant raise in crime, you better stop charging the police with defending themselves and protecting bystanders.
16
So the person in South Carolina who was shot while reaching into his car for his license as instructed was not doing what he was told? And the officer never was able to explain why he had asked for the license in the first place.
11
" I don’t know what they teach in schools nowadays, but resisting or ignoring authority seems to be the norm. "
Young black males in particular seem to feel that they have a "right" to ignore or resist authority.
Young black males in particular seem to feel that they have a "right" to ignore or resist authority.
9
Could it be that demonization of the police is causing unjustified citizen fears of the police? Could it be that BLM, Hillary and the whole left are cultivating and exploiting fear-mongering to win votes? And that is creating a paranoia of the police? Could it be that the narrative is costing lives and making communities less safe?
11
Tsk: Could it be that BLM is merely talking about a reality that has been occurring but was not previously believed because there was no documentation of it until cell phone footage helped to bring the problem to a wider public?
You seem to want to kill the messenger, to suppress the facts.
You seem to want to kill the messenger, to suppress the facts.
12
I was hesitant about calling the cops since it was "illegal" to park in front on my home in the 60's. My experience in the past few years reinforced that concept. Three years ago, a car ran over my foot in a parking lot. Police response: "It looks like road rage on your part." As I left the lot, I saw the driver and three police officers laughing and joking. Two months ago, I was knocked down by a Fire Department car while walking on a sidewalk in West Hartford CT. Police comment, three times he said," If you are making a false report I will arrest you." I'm a 78 year old white man. Police do a good job of protecting their friends. End of story.
31
The authors performed a tremendous service by documenting that the Ferguson Effect is real: Less police presence means more crime.
7
Once I stopped doing stupid stuff like driving on a suspended license, I stopped being arrested. Then again, I am not an advanced thinker who has spent all their adult like cocooned in academia like these two.
21
And what about the black man in Ohio who was driving at the speed limit and was stopped by an oncoming officer who later claimed he had spotted an expired license tag but was filmed telling the man he had made "prolonged eye contact" with the officer while driving past him? What had he done?
And, BTW, in Ohio, license tags are one-inch-square adhesive tags that are applied to the corner of the license plate--the REAR license plate. They are a different color each year but expire on the car owner's birthday, so there is no way to tell at a glance which are expired unless they are several years out of date. They have an expiration month on them, but there is no way an officer driving toward a car could have seen it.
And, BTW, in Ohio, license tags are one-inch-square adhesive tags that are applied to the corner of the license plate--the REAR license plate. They are a different color each year but expire on the car owner's birthday, so there is no way to tell at a glance which are expired unless they are several years out of date. They have an expiration month on them, but there is no way an officer driving toward a car could have seen it.
9
I was born and raised black on the almighty South Side of Chicago. I am a product of the Chicago Public Schools K-12. My family includes career cops and crooks. My family cops have never abused any innocent civilians. My family thugs have abused and been abused by their fellow thugs.
Back in my day we were caught between the multihued thugs in blue with a badge, a uniform, a gun and a license to deprive us of our life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness who irregularly invaded and occupied our neighborhoods and the black thugs in red, blue and brown who regularly lived in our hoods.
While both the bad cops and thugs were a minority we all looked alike to and were abused by both of them. Minding your own business meant no "reckless eye-balling" nor "fat mouths" less the 411 hood grapevine scream your family name to both sides to your mental, physical and emotional detriment.
The two worst abusive cops were black men Two-Gun Pete and Gloves. The two best cops were also black men named Renault Robinson and Howard Saffold. But it was my black Godfather Pony Soldier aka Mickey of the Main 21 of the Almighty BPSN upon who I called if I had any street trouble. Otherwise I was nobody with no one and from nowhere. But I knew somebody who garnered both fear and respect on the mean streets of Chicago.
Back in my day we were caught between the multihued thugs in blue with a badge, a uniform, a gun and a license to deprive us of our life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness who irregularly invaded and occupied our neighborhoods and the black thugs in red, blue and brown who regularly lived in our hoods.
While both the bad cops and thugs were a minority we all looked alike to and were abused by both of them. Minding your own business meant no "reckless eye-balling" nor "fat mouths" less the 411 hood grapevine scream your family name to both sides to your mental, physical and emotional detriment.
The two worst abusive cops were black men Two-Gun Pete and Gloves. The two best cops were also black men named Renault Robinson and Howard Saffold. But it was my black Godfather Pony Soldier aka Mickey of the Main 21 of the Almighty BPSN upon who I called if I had any street trouble. Otherwise I was nobody with no one and from nowhere. But I knew somebody who garnered both fear and respect on the mean streets of Chicago.
9
Today there are no rules protecting civilians nor any godfathers. While the cops are poorly trained and outgunned and armored.
2
I don't believe it's only black communities that experience this reluctance to call 911 after one of these occurrences. I'm not black and I would now be much more reluctant to pick up the phone and dial 911 for the police than I was only a few years ago, when I would have done so without a second thought. Back then when I dialed 911 I felt certain I knew what would happen, more or less. That's no longer true - I'm now not at all sure what would happen. It's a slow, cumulative erosion of trust. We are becoming conditioned by these instances to expect the worst possible outcome when the police are involved and that isn't good for the police or the citizens they are charged with protecting and serving.
80
Welcome to our world - people in the community I grew up in are more afraid of the police than any criminal. So fearful that calling in the police is something that they really think about - it's like What If I Call The Police and They End Up Killing or brutalizing the people involved in an incident.
What does this pattern tell us about how a great many people in a community feel about these To Protect and To Serve? Police violence and brutality is very real in a great many communities and large cities and we have been living with it for decades.
What does this pattern tell us about how a great many people in a community feel about these To Protect and To Serve? Police violence and brutality is very real in a great many communities and large cities and we have been living with it for decades.
4
Thank you.
2
Until the NYT understands that all evidence and investigation lead to and supports the decision that Brown was shot while he was attacking a policeman, the NY Times has no credibility in this matter. Stop perpetuating the lie.
25
It's not the times perpetuating the lie. The evidence provided by...
When statistics say "unarmed', they do not include the many cases where the perpetrator assaulted a police officer and tried to take his gun away, as that does not fit the prevailing meme.
'Crying wolf' never does.
'Crying wolf' never does.
5
Ryan: That claim (I've not verified it) does not justify Brown's death. The problem is the use of unnecessary lethal force by police who are not held accountable. If an unarmed Brown attacked a police officer, that does not give the police officer the automatic right to use lethal force.
4
I don't think this is a racial issue. I think it is a culture and socio-economic income issue. I think it is also a generational issue. Any high school teacher can tell you that in the past decade the absolute defiance for authority has run rampant with parental support. Even the most innocuous rules are flaunted and violence against teachers, administrators and others who work in positions of authority has risen. Many don't report it because of the pressure of school districts to keep numbers down. Others are denied a voice through community shaming that automatically places blame on the victim. I'm not saying all police shootings are justified-we've all known the person who when given a little power goes nuts. But police men and women are human and suffer the same fears and anger the rest of us do. Learning to talk to people rather than at them helps. But raising children who respect others regardless of their ethnicity or position also goes a long, long way in healing this rift. Right now we have too many teenagers and young adults who think it is their right to question and defy any rule or law they don't like. While it's their right to have opinions, it is not their right to interfere or to use intimidation and violence to impose the change they want. Too many of us feel hostage to the media supported attitudes of the fringe. Parents of all races just want their kids to live, be happy and be safe. Can't we all support that instead?
21
Defiance of authority has increased because of the abuse of authority. My mother had a colleague while teaching elementary school who used to rifle the students' desks while they were at recess and throw out any reading material she deemed unsuitable (comics, Mad Magazine, etc., things that the school had no policy on but which offended her sensibilities). The school not only held religious classes in violation of the law but instructed the teachers to make false entries in their lesson plans to hide the classes. My brother's principal got mad at my mother for reporting the theft of money from my brother's gym locker, telling her it wasn't that much money (not to him) and calling the police made it look like "we have thieves in the school." A school in my area suspended a high school student after someone resembling her was photographed at a political demonstration on a weekend.
3
I ke how you think calling the cops prevents homicides.
2
It prevents relatively minor events from escalating. Informal justice sometimes works effectively but often leads to a spiral of violence and retaliation.
1
Lots of people have taken this article as reason to accuse the police, the communities, the Republicans, the Democrats,the media, video games, or their favorite villain of the day. The message I take from this article is, "We can do better."
Let's do better.
Let's do better.
4
"WE" have tried to do better, but we have been obstructed, at every turn, by the established criminal culture of "law enforcement."
4
I COULD CALL THE COPS, and not be too worried, since I'm white. But, if I were black or Hispanic, I would probably not want to do that, since unjustified, unaccountable death often follows such calls.
10
(Not Mark) Unjustified, unaccountable death often happens to white people who call too. It's not just minorities, look at the stats.
7
From my experience, cops are trained to view all contacts as potential threats and they approach defensively for the most part. They are armed with large caliber high powered weapons that will kill immediately and they are trained to use it to kill, not just incapacitate.
Why Don't You Just Call the Cops?
Because momma didn't make no fool.
Why Don't You Just Call the Cops?
Because momma didn't make no fool.
28
Guns slowly kills. Guns slowly kills families. Guns slowly kills society. Guns slowly kills friends. Guns slowly kills potential. Guns slowly kills healers. Guns slowly kills goodness. Guns slowly kills friends. Guns slowly kills foes. Guns slowly kills beliefs. Guns slowly kills freedoms. Guns slowly kills futures. Guns slowly kill our future. Guns slowly kills.
10
Artists make for poor commentary. Artists make for poor politics. Artists make for simplistic diatribe. Artists make for navel gazing Artists make for tortured logic. Artists make for poor commentary.
5
I'm white but would probably never call the cops because I have dogs. I realize a dog's life is not the equivalent of the human life, but I still love my dogs and don't want them to be brutally murdered because they act like dogs and bark at strangers.
We had a friend die of a brain aneurysm at his home recently, and his wife was very hesitant to call the cops but finally did. She says they treated both her and her dead husband as criminals and searched the house looking for drugs they believed her husband must have overdosed on. This is a white middle-class retired couple living in the suburbs of a small town in the midwest where they grew up and lived most of their lives. Imagine if they were a minority couple living in poverty-stricken neighborhood in an urban area.
We had a friend die of a brain aneurysm at his home recently, and his wife was very hesitant to call the cops but finally did. She says they treated both her and her dead husband as criminals and searched the house looking for drugs they believed her husband must have overdosed on. This is a white middle-class retired couple living in the suburbs of a small town in the midwest where they grew up and lived most of their lives. Imagine if they were a minority couple living in poverty-stricken neighborhood in an urban area.
87
It is definitely not a black only problem but there are a suspicious number of black people dying at the hands of police.
I wonder if anyone is looking into how many white people are dying in these suspicious overly escalated by police situations?
I wonder if anyone is looking into how many white people are dying in these suspicious overly escalated by police situations?
2
I think the reason I look askance at the local police force in the small town in MD (where I was raised) is that that I went to school or grew up knowing them. They are certainly not the "best and brightest." They are largely males from my high school who didn't go to college, were not particularly athletic or talented, or intelligent. But they all got hired as local cops, all seemed to love wearing the uniform, driving the car with the lights, and of course, carrying a gun. I believe for most cops in small towns or rural areas, being a cop is about having a job with benefits, and exercising power over people. It has nothing to do with "protect and serve" any more that the city garbage removal people are invested in keeping America beautiful.
210
Susan e--In my small Maryland town, I once followed an officer through town, as he broke the law at least 3 different times, with impunity. What purpose would it serve to report him, in a place where everyone knows everyone else? I am not interested in becoming a victim of cop bullying.
12
To build a theory of police/community interaction on the basis of one incident out of a decade of data seems a bit of a reach. You really need to test each link in the asserted chain. Do news stories on police violence consistently depress 911 calls? Do lower levels of 911 calls consistently lead to higher murder rates? Can other factors be ruled out? Establishing that a correlation is causal takes a little more work than I see here.
12
Are you people serious? You are using an N of 1 so unless I'm missing something all you are providing is an interesting anecdote. And please don't reference a research paper that readers can't access (Research shows). While I can't read anything but the abstract, the results sound correlational whereas your assertion seems to be that the relationship is causal i.e. cynicism leads to higher crime rates. Then you make the completely unfounded assertion that the higher crime rates are due to citizens in areas with high levels of police cynicism taking the law into their own hands. Really. How do you know? Isn't it also possible that these are simply high crime areas with a lot of gang activity?
And without any reason at all, you only focus on unarmed Blacks. However, we all know -- as I'm sure you do -- that most of those shot by police have weapons, have committed crimes and/or are resisting arrest. You are cherry picking individual events. There are millions of police-citizen interactions every year, and only a handful have a negative outcome. Certainly, some cops overstep, some probably shouldn't be cops. But what you are publishing here isn't research, it is a diatribe. And referencing Ferguson -- where the idea that Michael Brown was an innocent angel gunned down by a cop -- has been debunked. You can look it up.
And without any reason at all, you only focus on unarmed Blacks. However, we all know -- as I'm sure you do -- that most of those shot by police have weapons, have committed crimes and/or are resisting arrest. You are cherry picking individual events. There are millions of police-citizen interactions every year, and only a handful have a negative outcome. Certainly, some cops overstep, some probably shouldn't be cops. But what you are publishing here isn't research, it is a diatribe. And referencing Ferguson -- where the idea that Michael Brown was an innocent angel gunned down by a cop -- has been debunked. You can look it up.
37
Ralphie - "Are you people serious?"
Sadly they are. It's the agenda that counts not proof or facts. You might be reading the wrong newspaper if you're looking for unbiased articles or unbiased commenters.
Sadly they are. It's the agenda that counts not proof or facts. You might be reading the wrong newspaper if you're looking for unbiased articles or unbiased commenters.
6
The paper is available on Professor Desmond's website. Click the Matthew Desmond link at the bottom of the article.
3
Alan
read the paper -- and am astounded it was published. Of course, sociology isn't much of a science, but an N of 1, no control group, no white comparison group, no co varying out of other possible explanatory factors -- I mean, the methodology is a joke. But a good example of why "peer reviewed" means little in too many instances.
read the paper -- and am astounded it was published. Of course, sociology isn't much of a science, but an N of 1, no control group, no white comparison group, no co varying out of other possible explanatory factors -- I mean, the methodology is a joke. But a good example of why "peer reviewed" means little in too many instances.
6
in 1986 i was a medical student. one of my dormitory suitemates was an african american male nurse. one night he was accosted by a mugger at an atm in harlem. seeing a squad car outside he pushed his way out and, in a panic, flung open the door to the police car. he was promptly and severely beaten by the police.
why don't you just call the cops?
why don't you just call the cops?
60
Student--Attack first, and ask questions later. MY life is more valuable than your life. I was accosted, by cops, in front of my sorority house, on my way home from a date, 46 years ago. "Someone" had been speeding in the area, and it must have been me, since I was the only one on the dark street, at that moment. My fear, and revulsion, of bully cops hasn't changed since then.
9
" Eric Garner, Michael Brown and Freddie Gray."
=
These deaths were reviewed endlessly, and shown as other than wrongful policing:
Brown attacked a cop; Gray's cops were acquitted at trial; and Garner's situation was a medical failure by EMT
Oops
= =
"The effect lasted for over a year and resulted in a loss of approximately 22,200 911 calls, a 17 percent reduction in citizen crime reporting, compared with the expected number of calls."
These numbers are not credible nor the conclusions: 17% down, 1/6, is 22K. The remainder then, 5/6, ie 5 * 22K is 100K
Milwaukee population is 600K. Assume the police-phobic impacted population, is half black, racial binary, thus 300K
Thus 300K black people who 'only' made 100k 911 calls a year, or one per every three people, instead of 100K plus 22K, one call per 3.5 people, crudely
And thus Murder Comes to Black America b/c locals only! call one in three people per year
= =
(a) " It is one thing to disparage law enforcement in your thoughts and speech after an instance of police violence makes the news.
(b) It is quite another to witness a crime, or even to be victimized, and decide not to report it."
=
(b) requires content analysis of why people call, -victim or witness, or other- preposterous that there was content analysis on the 100k remainder post-Brown vs 120k pre-Brown
readers?
=
These deaths were reviewed endlessly, and shown as other than wrongful policing:
Brown attacked a cop; Gray's cops were acquitted at trial; and Garner's situation was a medical failure by EMT
Oops
= =
"The effect lasted for over a year and resulted in a loss of approximately 22,200 911 calls, a 17 percent reduction in citizen crime reporting, compared with the expected number of calls."
These numbers are not credible nor the conclusions: 17% down, 1/6, is 22K. The remainder then, 5/6, ie 5 * 22K is 100K
Milwaukee population is 600K. Assume the police-phobic impacted population, is half black, racial binary, thus 300K
Thus 300K black people who 'only' made 100k 911 calls a year, or one per every three people, instead of 100K plus 22K, one call per 3.5 people, crudely
And thus Murder Comes to Black America b/c locals only! call one in three people per year
= =
(a) " It is one thing to disparage law enforcement in your thoughts and speech after an instance of police violence makes the news.
(b) It is quite another to witness a crime, or even to be victimized, and decide not to report it."
=
(b) requires content analysis of why people call, -victim or witness, or other- preposterous that there was content analysis on the 100k remainder post-Brown vs 120k pre-Brown
readers?
9
Could the culture of "snitches get stitches" play any role in people's reluctance to report crime in these communities?
13
Read the article Rick.
1
Sorry - don't see anywhere in the article that the issue of non-reporting due to ingrained cultural hostility to police is addressed. Are you suggesting that this phenomenon is some right-wing fever dream with no basis in reality? Reactionary outlets as far to the right as USA Today have been commenting on this destructive mindset for over a decade. Or are you suggesting that because the authors don't mention the issue, it's not fair to raise it all? The article is called "Why Don't You Just Call the Cops"; an inner-city culture of Omerta seems germaine to the issue...
1
State has the monopoly of Violance - but world has changed. No longer citizens are helpless and abuse of police hidden. NGOs and iPhone cameras are powerful tools to expose the unnecessary Violance by police. Police departments are trying to hide their face on sand to get this change disappear, but it will not go. Let there be new type of police recruits and new type of training with transparency in police departments to move to twenty first century world. Many countries already did that - look to Japan.
3
You miss the point entirely. The militarization of our local Police is the root cause of the problem. We are hiring aggressive, ex-military, and psychologically dangerous people to be on the force. We dress them like combat infantry, and encourage them with a mental marriage of law enforcement and patriotism, so that anyone that appears in their warped opinion looks criminally prone is not only a danger to society, but probably a threat to the nation's defense as well. It's war! Them vs. us. And "us" has become an exclusive club. The fact that this appears to be a "white/black" thing is not the issue-it is the beginning. Fascist behavior by a government starts with a bogeyman. Nationally it's the Muslim, locally it's the African American. Soon the scope will broaden to nationally all those who disagree with the government, and locally to those who are not our idea of the "ideal American" in culture, appearance and thought. The parallels between what is happening in this country and what occurred in Germany, Italy, Spain, and Japan are striking. Like those people, we are focusing on one segment of what is merely the tip of the iceberg.
17
I have suggested to media outlets they look at the military backgrounds of police involved beatings and shootings. This isn't an anti-military comment; I feel immense sympathy for the men and women whose neurologies become hard-wired to respond to stressful situations with violence. The problem comes when they bring their battlespace neurologies to community service; the gaps are immense, so what's the training that can rewire how veterans learned to react in Iraq and Afghanistan but employ them doing what should be a noble job?
2
Is this a way to blame the police for the surge in crime?
It seems that deniers of the Ferguson effect have swung swung from denying that there is a surge in violent crime to claiming that a surge in violent crime is the police's fault.
The chain of speculations about community psychology that comprises the reasoning in this article is very indirect, at best.
How can one overlook the very direct impact of a movement specifically against active policing, reinforced by violent attacks on police in street and ambush killings, is much more likely to lead to an increase crime rates, than vague theories about community psychology about asking for help?
It seems that deniers of the Ferguson effect have swung swung from denying that there is a surge in violent crime to claiming that a surge in violent crime is the police's fault.
The chain of speculations about community psychology that comprises the reasoning in this article is very indirect, at best.
How can one overlook the very direct impact of a movement specifically against active policing, reinforced by violent attacks on police in street and ambush killings, is much more likely to lead to an increase crime rates, than vague theories about community psychology about asking for help?
17
How’s this for a rational debunking?
Assuming the police in question were doing nothing wrong we can assume they would continue doing the same things.
If the police in question had a guilty conscience about wrong actions taken we can expect they would change their behavior to avoid getting caught in the closer scrutiny since Mr. Brown’s death.
If things have changed in your community and your cops are claiming Fergusen effect,
You can guess or infer they that they were doing something wrong and stopped to avoid scrutiny or that they really are fearful of being charged with having done something wrong even though what they would do is right.
Either way you need to replace any cops who claim “Ferguson Effect” because at best they lack good judgment and a proper confidence in the system they are a critical part of, and at worst they might be the bad actors who are causing you problems.
It is time we got rid of the ridiculous concept that fear is a justification for anything other than charging the cop with whatever crime they committed with that excuse.
The article describes the inability to trust inflicted by betrayal trauma. If the very idea of accessing public service brings up fear of what might happen instead of confidence that the called service will help you have someone who is traumatized to the point of not being able to trust the most basic level of service from their own government.
This trauma reaction to bad public service is not limited to black people
Assuming the police in question were doing nothing wrong we can assume they would continue doing the same things.
If the police in question had a guilty conscience about wrong actions taken we can expect they would change their behavior to avoid getting caught in the closer scrutiny since Mr. Brown’s death.
If things have changed in your community and your cops are claiming Fergusen effect,
You can guess or infer they that they were doing something wrong and stopped to avoid scrutiny or that they really are fearful of being charged with having done something wrong even though what they would do is right.
Either way you need to replace any cops who claim “Ferguson Effect” because at best they lack good judgment and a proper confidence in the system they are a critical part of, and at worst they might be the bad actors who are causing you problems.
It is time we got rid of the ridiculous concept that fear is a justification for anything other than charging the cop with whatever crime they committed with that excuse.
The article describes the inability to trust inflicted by betrayal trauma. If the very idea of accessing public service brings up fear of what might happen instead of confidence that the called service will help you have someone who is traumatized to the point of not being able to trust the most basic level of service from their own government.
This trauma reaction to bad public service is not limited to black people
8
There seems to be a prejudice in law enforcement. -- white is alright, black: jum on their back. And Black cops seems to be going along with it.
8
Why are we blaming the cops for a culture that blames the cops instead of the criminals? The cops don't create that culture; parents and the media create that culture.
20
The blaming of the cops comes from data, experience. TV shows, the media, tend to be pro-cop.
3
"...violence rips apart the social contract between the criminal justice system and the citizenry
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/27/us/murder-crime-fbi.html
Perhaps your sentence should read...
"...Gang violence rips apart the citizenry
...have as much chance reading this line in theNYT, as getting updated on the Charlotte shooter's ankle holster
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/27/us/murder-crime-fbi.html
Perhaps your sentence should read...
"...Gang violence rips apart the citizenry
...have as much chance reading this line in theNYT, as getting updated on the Charlotte shooter's ankle holster
8
Most people want to be able to trust the police. Most police want to be trusted. Better training, more transparency, more accountability and more effective community relations are needed to restore trust.
4
" Research shows that urban neighborhoods with higher levels of legal cynicism also have higher rates of violent crime"
Kinda funny how you believe the causal arrow points one way when I would argue it point the other way.
Kinda funny how you believe the causal arrow points one way when I would argue it point the other way.
6
What is so incredibly risible and poisonous in this otherwise reasonable-sounding article is the inference: "When citizens lose faith in the police, they are more apt to take the law into their own hands."
The constant aim here is to move the mind's eye away from any question of agency for inner city criminals themselves -- to deny their free will -- and to extend human agency only to the police officers. This is a dangerous infantilization and a form of semi-racist condescension.
The number of police shootings X is a function of the crime rate Y in certain populations, yet the authors are (viciously, IMHO) arguing that X determines Y.
Reasonable people would agree that a police shooting does amp up tensions and that indeed X has some impact on Y. But the authors acting like X is so wholly determinative of Y is what is so execrable here.
There are bad cops, and they should be prosecuted. But unless crime is front and center a larger part of this conversation, there can be no resolution, as Y is far larger than X. Meanwhile, more people on all sides will die at higher rates while sociologists like these misrepresent reality to engage in hard-left social signalling to their peers.
The constant aim here is to move the mind's eye away from any question of agency for inner city criminals themselves -- to deny their free will -- and to extend human agency only to the police officers. This is a dangerous infantilization and a form of semi-racist condescension.
The number of police shootings X is a function of the crime rate Y in certain populations, yet the authors are (viciously, IMHO) arguing that X determines Y.
Reasonable people would agree that a police shooting does amp up tensions and that indeed X has some impact on Y. But the authors acting like X is so wholly determinative of Y is what is so execrable here.
There are bad cops, and they should be prosecuted. But unless crime is front and center a larger part of this conversation, there can be no resolution, as Y is far larger than X. Meanwhile, more people on all sides will die at higher rates while sociologists like these misrepresent reality to engage in hard-left social signalling to their peers.
9
I meant "all populations" and not "certain populations"; no doubt the PC police will detect something odious in my subconscious...
But my general argument stands: Police shootings are a function of the crime rate for any given population.
But my general argument stands: Police shootings are a function of the crime rate for any given population.
4
Progressive media never mention the much higher crime rate in black communities because that reality undermines the narrative of systemic racism central to modern progressivism.
3
There is an episode in the movie called Crash. Matt Dillon plays white officer John Ryan. Thandie Newton plays black women Christine Thayer. Ryan pulls Christine and her husband over, orders them to get out of the car, and then inappropriately pats her down for weapons, and generally treats them horribly before releasing them. Later in the film Christine is involved in a car crash and is stuck inside the car. Officer Ryan shows up to help her get out of the vehicle, and she screams, resists his efforts and asks for another cop to help her. Ryan, and we, then realize the awful after effects of abusive and racist behavior among cops: they compromise their ability to help the communities that they are supposed to serve. I've been thinking about this "Crash" effect since Eric Garner.
10
The New York Times stokes fear and distrust in the black community by reporting only police shootings involving blacks The Washington Post database of fatal shootings shows that so far this year police have shot and killed 43 unarmed people. Of these, 23 were white, 14 were black and 6 were Hispanic. Not all of these shootings of unarmed individuals were controversial. For example, one unarmed suspect was shot as he was attempting to drown a pursuing officer in a creek. A handcuffed suspect dragged an arresting officer to his car and tried to drive away. One unarmed suspect who had just beaten a man to death was shot when he attacked officers. One of the 43 was killed by a bullet that passed through the arm of a man who was pointing a rifle at officers. Most of the others were violently resisting arrest. Blacks make up 33 percent of unarmed individuals shot by police, but the 2015 FBI Uniform Crime Report (Table 43: Arrests by Race & Ethnicity) shows blacks make up 36 percent of those arrested for violent crimes, including 51.1 percent of those arrested for murder and 53.5 percent of those arrested for robbery, the type of violent crimes that often result in police shootings. The chance of someone who is not resisting arrest being shot by police is virtually nil regardless of race.
29
excellent response -- but in general the Times editorialists don't care about data -- nor does it appear that these sociologists do either. I'm not sure that their approach to research is rigorous in any way. An n of 1, no control group, and lots of speculation. Ridiculous.
3
The arrest/shooting statistic isn't the more relevant one since it doesn't take into account that the same racial bias that affects shootings will also affect arrests.
2
Don't commit crimes and you won't have to be concerned with the police, it really IS that simple.
8
I don't think it's that simple...
6
Is that right?
.
So tell me, please, what crime is a young boy playing with a toy gun in a playground perpetrating? It must have been a doozy cuz the cops rolled up on him just feet away and shot him dead in seconds.
.
It really actually isn't that simple. But if your brain needs it to be to "understand" the problem, let us know how that's working out for us.
.
So tell me, please, what crime is a young boy playing with a toy gun in a playground perpetrating? It must have been a doozy cuz the cops rolled up on him just feet away and shot him dead in seconds.
.
It really actually isn't that simple. But if your brain needs it to be to "understand" the problem, let us know how that's working out for us.
12
In their next study, professors Desmond and Papachristos should examine the phenomenon of unfounded 911 calls that result in police killings of black people involved in harmless behavior.
It seems to me too many people who fear African Americans express that fear by calling the police on black fellow citizens under circumstances where they wouldn't pick up the phone if the actors were white.
It seems to me too many people who fear African Americans express that fear by calling the police on black fellow citizens under circumstances where they wouldn't pick up the phone if the actors were white.
17
Hillary is the candidate that people, especially Christians, should vore for. Imperfect and flawed...just the kind of sinner that the Lord came to save.
2
Nobody died over hurt feelings from the silly things Trump said. Hillary lied in the faces of the families of those killed in Benghazi. She knew it was a lie. She ignored emails pleading for security because in the meantime she was too busy attracting money to the Clinton Foundation for yet another in a series of quid pro quo transactions. Don't get me wrong, Trump was never my guy. I'm looking down ticket to the VP spots. I don't think either of them are in any condition to survive the first term.
2
As a character in a Jules Fieffer cartoon put it: When you hear the whistle you know that help is on the way. When I hear it I know I'm going to get clobbered.
3
And according to a Milwaukee Health Assessment, Milwaukee is the most racially segragated city in the United States. Just an FYI.
4
Let me see if I understand this correctly. You suggest that your research shows that phone calls to 911 are considerably down SINCE the brutal police attack on Mr. Jude. You conclude that those 911 calls are down because the community does not trust the police.
And then the last paragraph lists all the black men that have been brutilised or killed by police; some of those deaths going back to before 2003 (which is 13 years ago). And yet, those 911 calls had apparently NOT gone down as you say your research indicates they have just decreased by significant numbers.
I don't think you an have it both ways.
And then the last paragraph lists all the black men that have been brutilised or killed by police; some of those deaths going back to before 2003 (which is 13 years ago). And yet, those 911 calls had apparently NOT gone down as you say your research indicates they have just decreased by significant numbers.
I don't think you an have it both ways.
4
Read the article again you missed the distinguishing factor, the 911 calls related to crime went down overall all other 911 calls remained the same.
5
In order to make police departments look like the communities they serve, I suggest we eliminate all preferences for hiring military veterans. Those who have been trained to follow strict chains of command, obey orders unquestionably, and deal with any perceived threat with instant, overwhelming violence, are often incapable of standing against peer pressure, to report malfeasance and to advocate for those victimized by the small percentage of 'bad actors' who must be weeded from the force. We should also take a hard look at criminal justice education and mandate courses in non-violent defense measures, proper restraint techniques, deescalation and negotiation tactics and the social impacts of 'broken windows' policing. We must expect a higher code of ethics from police than 'the thin blue line' mentality that allows the "us versus them" virus to grow. A society that cares about fairness and quality of life demands police professionalism and accountability, and in exchange will provide adequate wages and benefits for a comfortable life, and career paths unhindered by politics and nepotism. We should also look at consolidating municipal forces at the state or county levels to reduce 'cracks' where training and procedures can break down. I would like to be able to have the same relationship with my local police as I do with my barber, grocer and dry cleaner: members of a shared community who are stronger working together.
115
Steve, this is beautifully written! In much the same way expectations of Customer Service have changed in many places (even the DMV!) to reflect respect for the customer, expectations of the level of professionalism, courtesy, and compassion in our police forces need to change.
1
You do realize that most urban police departments already do have courses for training that include de-escalation and other measures. Unfortunately the criminals on the streets don't take those courses so they are not bound by the same code of ethics. This isn't a Medieval jousting match, it is life and death. Frankly if someone shoots at me, I would be shooting back. Can you blame a police officer, paid much less than your average pro athlete, for wanting to go home to his or her family at night? Are you willing to stand up to criminals or do you dial the cops? Ask yourself why you do that.
6
(Not Mark) I've seen this in a few places and I have to reply. It is unjust to and prejudicial to paint veterans in this light. You obviously have no real knowledge of the military or what constitutes military training and life. It is plain to see that you harbor an unreasonable and downright wrong view of veterans. Learn about what goes on in the military. You are totally wrong and off base.
3
Some people seek careers in law enforcement to protect and serve. Others seek these careers to wear a uniform, badge and gun, have authority and be in control.
We probably spend a hundred billion dollars annually in this country on various forms of psychology and psychiatry. Why don't we make it a priority to seek out the former and weed out the latter when we hire peace officers?
Dan Kravitz
We probably spend a hundred billion dollars annually in this country on various forms of psychology and psychiatry. Why don't we make it a priority to seek out the former and weed out the latter when we hire peace officers?
Dan Kravitz
4
(Not Mark) Most police forces do use personality tests to weed out potential trouble makers.
2
I begin to realize why we were taught both that "the policeman is your friend" and that "we pay his salary." As a white girl growing up in the Midwest, I guess it was my parents' job to make me feel Impervious to the police. I always felt that I was, but... maybe not. They certainly seem totally out of control now.
2
In America’s 75 largest counties in 2009, blacks constituted 62 percent of all robbery defendants, 57 percent of all murder defendants, 45 percent of all assault defendants—but only 15 percent of the population. 26% of those killed by police were black and virtually all of them were armed at the time of their deaths. Their rate of violent crime would predict a much higher rate of death by police.
9
Where Did You Get Those Numbers? Very Trumpian. No viable source.
4
(Not Mark) That's it, that's your reply? Look up the FBI crime stats. Not so very 'Trumpian' after all.
2
I'm white, middle-aged. If I call the cops about anything they'll demand to see ID. While one is talking to me the other is using his phone or computer to search for a reason to arrest me. Any un-paid ticket, no matter how old or how minor the violation will suffice. Furthermore, their record keeping is atrocious, so even a ticket that I paid might suffice.
On top of all that is the fact that the loud or drunken neighbor, or the weird half-naked stranger off his meds or whoever prompted me to call 911 in the first place is liable to get shot.
So why WOULD I call 911?
On top of all that is the fact that the loud or drunken neighbor, or the weird half-naked stranger off his meds or whoever prompted me to call 911 in the first place is liable to get shot.
So why WOULD I call 911?
14
We have all sorts of issues with police/civilian relations in America, but setting those important issues aside for a moment, this is one of the sloppier pieces of argument I've seen from distinguished academics, and I wish the editors at the NYT had been more careful in reviewing the submission.
Take this statement: "Our research suggests that this [increase in homicides] happened not because the police “got fetal” but because many members of the black community stopped calling 911, their trust in the justice system in tatters."
What?? Is the logic something like the following: police brutality -> fewer 911 calls -> more homicides? Is that even plausible on face? As though folks who wouldn't have killed otherwise realize that 911 won't be called and start killing people? Isn't it still more plausible that decreased police presence leads to more homicides, and that citizens are *also* less likely to call 911 once a homicide occurs?
To then assert that the increase in killings is citizens 'taking justice into their own hands' makes matters worse. Are you asserting that the additional homicides were somehow just?
The only "facts" in this article are that homicides increased and 911 calls dropped after this terrible incident in Milwaukee. Neither fact bears on whether the police "went fetal" - a lurking variable that may explain the homicides better than the causal link baldly asserted by the authors.
End rant :)
Take this statement: "Our research suggests that this [increase in homicides] happened not because the police “got fetal” but because many members of the black community stopped calling 911, their trust in the justice system in tatters."
What?? Is the logic something like the following: police brutality -> fewer 911 calls -> more homicides? Is that even plausible on face? As though folks who wouldn't have killed otherwise realize that 911 won't be called and start killing people? Isn't it still more plausible that decreased police presence leads to more homicides, and that citizens are *also* less likely to call 911 once a homicide occurs?
To then assert that the increase in killings is citizens 'taking justice into their own hands' makes matters worse. Are you asserting that the additional homicides were somehow just?
The only "facts" in this article are that homicides increased and 911 calls dropped after this terrible incident in Milwaukee. Neither fact bears on whether the police "went fetal" - a lurking variable that may explain the homicides better than the causal link baldly asserted by the authors.
End rant :)
12
spot on -- these "researchers" don't know how to conduct research or make a logical argument.
2
The flip side of this story is the reluctance of many black communities to cooperate with the police when a crime is committed because of the fear of retaliation by the gangs that dominate these communities. Here in Columbus a joint federal-local task force finally (after a multi-year effort) broke up a gang dealing in drugs, robberies, and murder. One of those convicted had his girlfriend murdered because he suspected that she might go to the police.
12
Straw man argument.
5
But the worry of gang reprisal is unchanged by a police killing or beating. The observation of a reduced number of 911 calls following police violence cannot be explained by this concern.
6
No, that was a fact.
1
The police in New York managed to capture the NY City bomber even though he was armed and actually shooting at them. They shot him in the arm and leg and captured him alive. But other police can't seen to stop shooting unarmed or mentally impaired people, even children, if they are black. So why would black communities take a chance on calling them?
8
Yes, we've deliberately taught the NY City police to wait to get shot at, and the consequence is that now they're even more dangerous to bystanders.
2
They missed.. What can I say?
1
Why would those in power actually look at data?
11
Interesting article but I believe the data was "cherry picked" to suit the outcome.
18
It's nice that you have a belief, Joseph. Do you have a valid basis for it or are you just naturally skeptical of information that disagrees with your biases?
46
Why do you believe that?
The very word "belief" means that you have no supporting data or evidence.
The very word "belief" means that you have no supporting data or evidence.
7
Rather than making a judgment call you can use facts; read the study for your self at http://www.asanet.org/sites/default/files/attach/journals/oct16asrfeatur... and based on the methodology of the study decide if the data was cherry picked. It seems to me after skimming through it that it was not.
11
I'm still on the side of law and order. Sorry if that offends you.
Living within the law of the land is still the preferred route to happiness. I hope.
Living within the law of the land is still the preferred route to happiness. I hope.
47
Jimmy maybe you should clarify your comment since the violence perpetrated in this article came at the hands of the police. But if I am not mistaken I think you are willing to overlook police violence as long as they can keep blacks in their place.
11
Of course. But that goes for the police, too.
8
Being on the side of law and order means by definition being against police officers who shoot unarmed suspects. Likewise mental stubborness in the face of facts is not being on the side of law and order, it's living in an ideological loop closed to facts.
10
I wonder if there is another factor involved - video games being used as "training" or possibly as recreation for a lot of officers. There are a lot of First-Person-Shooter (FPS) games that make you the police officer and put you in the typical Kill-of-be-Killed role against a host of "Bad Dudes" who are incredibly large.
We know that the human mind has a problem distinguishing a fictional from a real event. Ask anyone who binge-watched any TV shows or played many hours of video games - your body has responded as though it was real.
Hour upon hour playing violent fantasies where you are the cop out there fighting for your life will have an effect on how you view and react to the people on the street. You will re-live the emotional storm during almost every encounter - your body and brain cannot distinguish the difference.
Perhaps it is time to investigate what the police departments use as training materials and if they are using FPS's they might just be programing the violence that happens on our streets.
We know that the human mind has a problem distinguishing a fictional from a real event. Ask anyone who binge-watched any TV shows or played many hours of video games - your body has responded as though it was real.
Hour upon hour playing violent fantasies where you are the cop out there fighting for your life will have an effect on how you view and react to the people on the street. You will re-live the emotional storm during almost every encounter - your body and brain cannot distinguish the difference.
Perhaps it is time to investigate what the police departments use as training materials and if they are using FPS's they might just be programing the violence that happens on our streets.
71
The simplest solution is to remove fear as a justifying factor in any action taken, but especially in use of deadly force.
37
Huh? If you attack me I will defend myself as best I can before you get to me. That will always be my right, and that will always be what I do.
If you don't drop your weapon, the police will always rightly defend themselves. The didn't sign up to get shot.
If you don't drop your weapon, the police will always rightly defend themselves. The didn't sign up to get shot.
4
So you're promoting the idea of cyborgs? Robocop come to life? To say the police cannot use the fear of the death of a partner or themselves is denying them the basic right of survival. My suggestion would be that you take a ride along with a local LEO and see what they deal with on a daily basis. The most dangerous calls are domestic violence where women and children are put in harm's way. Quite often the victim will attack the cops as well. What is your solution? Quick! You have less than a minute to decide what to do.
2
I'm white, come from what's called an economically upper-middle class background, educated at good schools, and have a law degree. A few years ago while sitting outside of my apartment, a neighbor I was feuding with called the NYPD and told them I was a peeping tom: When the police showed up I went to greet them, not knowing what she'd told them. About 6 or 7 NYPD thugs slammed me to the ground and cuffed me - inside of my own apartment building. No questions, didn't ask for ID, didn't tell me what was going on. When they found out I lived there, they called the rubber room ambulance and intended to cover their mistake by having me carted away to crazy land. I was saved only by EMTs who closely and carefully questioned me, and let me tell you, when they found out what the cops had pulled with regards to the EMTs, they were very, very agitated. (Turns out, EMTs don't like being pulled away from real emergencies to cover for the errors of a rampaging NYPD).
In those moments I realized (finally, many would say) that the NYPD are thugs and bullies and are not on my side. As a white person I would call them only as a last resort. The photos I have of the abuse I received while getting slammed to the floor and forcibly cuffed are yet some of thousands of examples -- cops are out of control.
In those moments I realized (finally, many would say) that the NYPD are thugs and bullies and are not on my side. As a white person I would call them only as a last resort. The photos I have of the abuse I received while getting slammed to the floor and forcibly cuffed are yet some of thousands of examples -- cops are out of control.
244
As a middle class, economically sound, white male, I've told my sons that calling the police won't help you and won't solve your problems. I've instructed them how to deal with police questioning, traffic stops and more.
The police are not anyone's friend - they function under group dynamics; sure, individually many are fine people but as an organization it functions within the "legal system" which is not a justice system.
If you get involved in the "legal system" whether at the front end by calling the police or conversing with them or through a misdemeanor/felony, the experience can change you - emotionally and financially, and even if you are white though a vastly different experience compared to a person of color ( I know, my wife and her family are Latino and just one a lawsuit against the Dallas police when they lied about him running a red light and failing a breathalyzer).
Unless your life is at risk and you aren't capable of defending yourself - we don't depend on the police for anything.
The police are not anyone's friend - they function under group dynamics; sure, individually many are fine people but as an organization it functions within the "legal system" which is not a justice system.
If you get involved in the "legal system" whether at the front end by calling the police or conversing with them or through a misdemeanor/felony, the experience can change you - emotionally and financially, and even if you are white though a vastly different experience compared to a person of color ( I know, my wife and her family are Latino and just one a lawsuit against the Dallas police when they lied about him running a red light and failing a breathalyzer).
Unless your life is at risk and you aren't capable of defending yourself - we don't depend on the police for anything.
13
I too have been attacked by police. Circumstances were different, but police behavior much the same -- violence as a first resort. I've seen far worse done to those more vulnerable.
I've always known most cops are good people. I grew up with them, my father a cop. I've always known there are some bad ones, men my father fired for that, men about whom he expressed outrage when he fired them.
The key is that the other cops know. The boss knows. It is hard to act, to fire a fellow cop. They look away. The problem gets worse.
The real problem is cowardice at the top, moral cowardice. "Politics" is the excuse for taking the easy way out instead of doing the job for which the boss is responsible.
I've always known most cops are good people. I grew up with them, my father a cop. I've always known there are some bad ones, men my father fired for that, men about whom he expressed outrage when he fired them.
The key is that the other cops know. The boss knows. It is hard to act, to fire a fellow cop. They look away. The problem gets worse.
The real problem is cowardice at the top, moral cowardice. "Politics" is the excuse for taking the easy way out instead of doing the job for which the boss is responsible.
13
(Not Mark) We are white and middle class and we've told our kids to be extra careful when dealing with the cops. In any situation. Recently, my daughter (who lives on her own), was driving home from work. She went through a yellow light and a cop pulled her over. He gave her a ticket for going through a red light. She denied this. He then wanted to know why she took so long to pull over. She said there was no place to pull over and much traffic. He said she should have done it sooner. She realized this was just getting worse and let it go. She then looked up a cheap lawyer on line and talked to them. There was a camera at the light, it would show whether she ran the light. The lawyers told her many cops write tickets for running the red lights and just figure people will pay and that's it. She contested and her lawyers got her off. She didn't even need to go to court. It cost her money, but less than the ticket and nothing is on her license. I don't condemn the entire police force, but what does this say about letting this go on?
7
Do you know the solution? Have more people from minority communities join the police force, and then support them when they have conflicts.
Sadly, democrats demonize blacks in law enforcement and claim they are racist.
We will never achieve the trust required as long as anarchists are enabled by democrats...
Sadly, democrats demonize blacks in law enforcement and claim they are racist.
We will never achieve the trust required as long as anarchists are enabled by democrats...
11
...or gun violence is enabled by republicans in the pocket of the NRA
2
I know of no "democrats" who "demonize" blacks in or out of law enforcement. I know of no "democrats" who enable "anarchists". If surgres knows of an example s/he should present the name of that Democrat (or Republican or independent) and the evidence against that person.
Until I get such a name and evidence, I will regard surgres as a good example of someone who has unsupported strange opinions and who refuses to let facts interfere with those opinions.
Until I get such a name and evidence, I will regard surgres as a good example of someone who has unsupported strange opinions and who refuses to let facts interfere with those opinions.
6
What exactly do you mean when you say "...democrats demonize blacks in law enforcement and claim they are racist." Racists towards whom and what facts are you using to support your premise? Also, wondered where the idea of ...anarchists are enabled by democrats...comes in? Who are these anarchists, what do you think that their plans are? What reality are you living in? noticed that you are from New York. Certainly hope that you don't live near me, I wouldn't feel safe.
5
To the Authors,
I might suggest by the evidence presented, if there is a "War on Cops" then the police started it and, apparently, are continuing it.
I might suggest by the evidence presented, if there is a "War on Cops" then the police started it and, apparently, are continuing it.
33
As long as papers like this one and our current administration feed this they will contribute to lawlessness. Since this president has been in office he has fed hate, racism and fear. Eventually no one will be a policeman and we'll reap what you have sowed.
13
It's great to read a coherent, data driven essay by Desmond and Papachristos.
It's sad to read the incoherent, fact-free response by jacrane.
It's sad to read the incoherent, fact-free response by jacrane.
5
Ridiculous. President Obama has done nothing of the sort and the NYT is reporting facts. But thank you for so clearly demonstrating the tendancy of racists to place blame everywhere but on themselves.
5
Yeah. You're right, President Obama makes McConnell and company show their "true colors."
3
This could be a clarion call to African American leaders in their communities. If the police cannot be trusted then we need to create our own policing force. Especially in Chicago where gun violence amongst street gangs is a modern version of the crack epidemic. The NRA is running guns in your neighborhoods. Each community has a city council. These are the individuals that are responsible not just paving streets and making sure the sewer works but these are your community leaders. Demand accountability from all walks of life especially your leaders. If they are not getting results then get someone in there who can. Forget the police! They are underpaid under educated and scared. They are too stupid to know better than to kill black people. Policing begins at home in your churches and at your council. Perhaps it is time for a new black panthers party. Retooled for newer times. The use of social media beyond the recording of shootings. A new kind of amber alert. Call it an ebony alert. Start somewhere. Try anything. I feel like this is a bad old 1960,s deju vu.
104
reply to Wiliam Winthister: I am always mesmerized when folks like you talk about " African American leaders [and] their Communities". As an African American resident of the United States of America- Where exactly IS this community of which you speak? Who exactly are its leaders? With about 45 million people identified as Black-surely it is time to stop trying to place us all in ONE geographic locale and our own Leadership [sic].
6
"They are too stupid to know better than to kill black people." This is a very, very ignorant an unhelpful thing to say. I am, however, in favor of people taking care of their own communities. There's nothing like personal investment in something to make you care about the outcome.
2
This is mighty white and confused. The black community always deals with the reality of black crime and bad cops. While the white community is dealing with the reality of white- on- white crime. While white people only fake an interest in black- on -black crime when a white cop or civilian kills a black civilian. Most crime is intra-racial. Of the 33,000 Americans who die from gunshot every year about 2/3rds are suicides. Primarily white men.
4
It's regrettable that the authors fail to note the Manhattan Institute is a right wing think tank and an advocate of the highly controversial law enforcement doctrine of "Broken Windows," a precursor of Stop and Frisk. I believe that information would have brought needed perspective and clarity to this article.
14
The police exist to enforce the law, not protect citizens or prevent crime. They serve the state, not the citizenry. Any interaction with them can turn deadly. I cannot conceive of a scenario that would cause me to call them other than to file a report for insurance after the fact. Even an armed home invasion. Better to fight for your life against criminals and have a chance than die in your own home at the hands of the police you called.
12
No, sooner or later you're gonna run out of ammo.
2
By nature of the job, police recruitments self-select for those who want to lord it over the community. They are given a badge and a gun - and that is their opportunity to use them! Their training leads them to treat each every citizen as a dangerous criminal. They look more like mercenary soldiers in a bush war (check out the hair cuts!) than a trained professional. Maybe we should fill police ranks with a short term draft of citizens. That would give us a police force that looks - and acts - like the community.
32
'Police culture' needs to be reformed. The police is there to 'protect and serve', not to intimidate the communities they are supposed to serve and who pay their salaries with their taxes.
Police departments are so militarized it seems their role is essentially an occupation army keeping the poor, black, Latino and working class at bay.
We need to demilitarize the police and establish police review boards so that communities control their police, and not the other way around.
No more use of SWAT teams and no-knock raids for drugs and serving papers.
Abs stop the failed war on drugs.
Most importantly, we need to dial back the incredible levels of income inequality that lead us to a new kind of class society.
That would lead to less crime, less poverty and racism would no longer be structural.
Police departments are so militarized it seems their role is essentially an occupation army keeping the poor, black, Latino and working class at bay.
We need to demilitarize the police and establish police review boards so that communities control their police, and not the other way around.
No more use of SWAT teams and no-knock raids for drugs and serving papers.
Abs stop the failed war on drugs.
Most importantly, we need to dial back the incredible levels of income inequality that lead us to a new kind of class society.
That would lead to less crime, less poverty and racism would no longer be structural.
36
"Police culture' needs to be reformed."
Police culture has been reformed several times since WW2. The whole idea of "protect and serve" was a post-War reform.
This is not unchanging. It changed for the worse, after having been changed once for the better. It can be changed again. This is not just how it has to be, nothing can be done.
Police culture has been reformed several times since WW2. The whole idea of "protect and serve" was a post-War reform.
This is not unchanging. It changed for the worse, after having been changed once for the better. It can be changed again. This is not just how it has to be, nothing can be done.
3
I would be curious in knowing how much of "police culture" is driven by police unions. While police certainly have the right to organize, it has been my long time observation that unions have a tendency to protect both the bad and the good within their rank and file. Will citizens in union states have any consideration of this? Just look at the number of bad teachers in New York City protected by the unions who go to work daily, get paid and do nothing because unions have the city intimidated. Could the same type of intimidation by union leadership push cities to avoid firing union cops? It's worth discussing.
1
The continued use of military equipment not needed should also be recognized. No department needs that type of equipment it gives the officers the illusion of invincibility.
14
Sometimes military equipment is needed. Not often, but it happens. It needs to be available. It does not need to be a first resort. It must be last.
There are cops who go a lifetime without shooting anybody. Yet I know some who just walked into disasters.
One example was a former priest, a cop I knew, who thought he could do non-violence in all situations, until he walked into a bank robbery in progress, and ended on the floor wearing his own handcuffs. After that he was more careful, but still not abusive.
There are cops who go a lifetime without shooting anybody. Yet I know some who just walked into disasters.
One example was a former priest, a cop I knew, who thought he could do non-violence in all situations, until he walked into a bank robbery in progress, and ended on the floor wearing his own handcuffs. After that he was more careful, but still not abusive.
6
Stopped an active shooter recently, didn't it? I think your viewpoint would depend on if you were in fear of your life or not.
4
I know dozens of decent men and women who are employed as police officers, and regrettably, I also know several police officers, who are racist and have no problem brutalizing minorities, especially black Americans.
I'm white, and ashamed that we here in the United States of America have proved to a shocked world, that we are indeed exceptional, only in our bigotry and our avarice.
A people so bereft of empathy, and common decency, sooner than later, will reap what they sow, which will be lawlessness and chaos.
Time to tell the truth.
I'm white, and ashamed that we here in the United States of America have proved to a shocked world, that we are indeed exceptional, only in our bigotry and our avarice.
A people so bereft of empathy, and common decency, sooner than later, will reap what they sow, which will be lawlessness and chaos.
Time to tell the truth.
33
I've known some cops who were racist, but who still would not brutalize anybody.
A willingness to brutalize is not the same thing as racist. Someone who will brutalize will do it more generally.
I'm not defending racists. That is a throwback to a bad past. But I am pointing out that one is not the same as the other. That is why black cops can be as much of a problem as white cops in relations with black civilians.
A willingness to brutalize is not the same thing as racist. Someone who will brutalize will do it more generally.
I'm not defending racists. That is a throwback to a bad past. But I am pointing out that one is not the same as the other. That is why black cops can be as much of a problem as white cops in relations with black civilians.
4
"If acts of excessive police force result in community-level consequences, then cities should implement community-level interventions in the aftermath of such acts."
Elegant, clear remedies for community tragedies. That corrode our civil discourse, democracy, and societies.
Even more powerful because your findings are grounded in empirical "data" of the most heart-wrenching kind.
Thanks.
Elegant, clear remedies for community tragedies. That corrode our civil discourse, democracy, and societies.
Even more powerful because your findings are grounded in empirical "data" of the most heart-wrenching kind.
Thanks.
3
Why it is in USA that for any suspect whether traffic like signal break not having tail light or someone having brawl in street always arrest means handcuffing by twisting hands at back and pushing person on ground even in hot sun on melted asphalt or in winter in snow even?
Seen a large big police officer arresting a small size person That fellow most probably cannot run away why not frisk him or simply put gun aimed at him?
A traffic offence Police will have number of car or it can be stopped at next traffic light it was so jammed traffic this car cannot move an inch Other countries especially UK or Indian Subcontinent or even in saudi police do not use handcuffing every now and then. Stopped by police people simply stop.
Seen a large big police officer arresting a small size person That fellow most probably cannot run away why not frisk him or simply put gun aimed at him?
A traffic offence Police will have number of car or it can be stopped at next traffic light it was so jammed traffic this car cannot move an inch Other countries especially UK or Indian Subcontinent or even in saudi police do not use handcuffing every now and then. Stopped by police people simply stop.
5
I learned my lesson decades ago when vandals smashed several windows of cars parked along my street, including my own. I called the cops, who expended zero effort investigating the incident, other than to demand to see the registration of the car and my driver's license. They showed no interest in determining who smashed the windows but were keenly interested in the fact that I still had a license from my home state (I was a trainee at the time) while the car was registered in a third state from which I'd recently moved ("You seem to have a lot of addresses.") In most cases, calling cops is just asking for trouble.
64
Why are we unable to talk about an issue on a pragmatic middle ground? Why must we approach every problem from opposite poles? Why must we believe that either the police are Out of Control or that we are in a War on Police?
A pragmatic middle ground? Police departments are responsible for weeding out bad cops to protect the integrity of the department and integrity of the rest of the officers. Really, is this all that hard to comprehend? It is no more than what we have demanded of Catholic bishops.
Letting egregious abuses go causes a breakdown in trust. And trust is more valuable to the community than under-skilled or over-violent officers.
A pragmatic middle ground is to self-police. Ask a Bishop how much is costs to fail to self-police, and let the bad apples slide through the system.
A pragmatic middle ground? Police departments are responsible for weeding out bad cops to protect the integrity of the department and integrity of the rest of the officers. Really, is this all that hard to comprehend? It is no more than what we have demanded of Catholic bishops.
Letting egregious abuses go causes a breakdown in trust. And trust is more valuable to the community than under-skilled or over-violent officers.
A pragmatic middle ground is to self-police. Ask a Bishop how much is costs to fail to self-police, and let the bad apples slide through the system.
6
And self-policing will work for the cops as well as self-policing has worked for the Catholic church, Wall St., corporations and the banks.
4
No, I mean really self-police. Like actually take responsibility. The Church didn't, and frequently the police leadership doesn't. They hide behind union reps and carefully constructed justifications. The Bishops hid behind tradition, arrogance and secrecy.
But... both institutions have suffered from the total lack of leadership and responsibility. The community they are supposed to serve suffers unimaginably, and the members of the institution lose all respect. All either institution needed to do was admit to the reality that some of them had actually done wrong - and let them face the legal consequences. All they had to do was *not* run interference.
The question is, why do the people who are not part of the problem, help hide, or support the leadership failure? That is what I mean by self-policing. I don't mean that the organization gets to be prosecutor, judge and jury. But they sure as hell should take responsibility and be part of the indictment.
But... both institutions have suffered from the total lack of leadership and responsibility. The community they are supposed to serve suffers unimaginably, and the members of the institution lose all respect. All either institution needed to do was admit to the reality that some of them had actually done wrong - and let them face the legal consequences. All they had to do was *not* run interference.
The question is, why do the people who are not part of the problem, help hide, or support the leadership failure? That is what I mean by self-policing. I don't mean that the organization gets to be prosecutor, judge and jury. But they sure as hell should take responsibility and be part of the indictment.
1
As a young student in the early ‘90’s, several of us looking for cheap loft space, found it in North Philly. The trade-off was a nearly complete lack of police response. When I once called the precinct to report the radio stolen from my car, the dispatcher laughed at me. The only reason, we would learn, the police would respond is if someone were bleeding out on the sidewalk. Bad things happened with alarming frequency.
Fast-forward two years to living by the Williamsburg Bridge in NY, I was mugged walking home from gym class. Perhaps it was because I called the police from the nearby firehouse, but the response was nearly immediate. Detectives picked me up, drove me around looking for the perpetrators, arrested them when we found them, and retrieved my stolen bag. I was kind-of shocked at the difference. If I had called from home instead of the firehouse, I doubt they would have bothered, but still, you got the impression they were at least around.
Police are necessary for protecting and serving citizens but things break down when people don't trust them. Sadly, that trust is sorely lacking in too many communities in America right now, particularly communities of color. We used to call our old Philly neighborhood the DMZ. No one wants to live there.
Fast-forward two years to living by the Williamsburg Bridge in NY, I was mugged walking home from gym class. Perhaps it was because I called the police from the nearby firehouse, but the response was nearly immediate. Detectives picked me up, drove me around looking for the perpetrators, arrested them when we found them, and retrieved my stolen bag. I was kind-of shocked at the difference. If I had called from home instead of the firehouse, I doubt they would have bothered, but still, you got the impression they were at least around.
Police are necessary for protecting and serving citizens but things break down when people don't trust them. Sadly, that trust is sorely lacking in too many communities in America right now, particularly communities of color. We used to call our old Philly neighborhood the DMZ. No one wants to live there.
18
Sociologists are prone to using a hundred words where ten would suffice. They like to torture raw data into unrecognizable shapes, silly putty style, to make assertions seem plausible. The fact is, for whatever reason, there is indeed a "ferguson effect" in several cities. Violent crimes are increasing because the police either are unaware of it, but more likely are not aggressively preventing it. That's it eggheads. For your next public service tell us what segment of society suffers the immediate consequences of reduced, ineffective policing.
10
I'm a white male, and while I'm certainly against a bad cop who treats anyone unfairly and without respect, never mind needlessly killing a man. I do feel many of the killings were the fault of a man who simply would not comply. True I statistically have a far less chance of being stopped. I also statistically have a lower chance of being a suspect or a criminal. There is a correlation, as uneasy as it makes us feel. I see behavior of some black men in NYC that quite truthfully warrants Police intervention, and this is where the potential for tragedy begins. The police need better training for certain, though in NYC it's mostly impressive. But that's not good enough. If a bad cop kills with intent and no threat was found, he needs to be prosecuted. The problem is compounded by a group with an aggressive political agenda bordering on terror behavior, who feel the police are wrong no matter what. They behave like Trump supporters, deny in the face of facts. They also rally for more violence hence discrediting anything they say. This is why their neighborhoods are filled with crime. The Police simply stay away. You can't have it both ways.
14
Maybe those who think the "police are wrong no matter what" would think differently if the police didn't claim they are right no matter what.
187
The Omerta of the Mafia matches the Omerta of the cops. Cops need to speak up about bad cops or the good cops will be treated as threats by citizens.
9
It's evident from the increasing amount of reporting and commentary on policing issues that the law-enforcement community is dividing between those who take recent events and research to heart and implement reforms, and those like Chief Flynn whose devotion to the authoritarian model of policing is so deep as to make them unable to do so. The distinction is often typified as the "guardian" model, in which police really do both "protect and serve" their communities, and the "warrior" model, in which police behave like a military-style occupying force. If police work in this country is going to be seen as legitimate and function effectively in the future, the relevant local authorities will have to find the courage and determination to replace "warriors" with "guardians." That the "warriors" cost their jurisdictions so many millions of dollars in abuse-related judgment and settlements should help.
6
Cops are incompetent or bullies in my experience. I have only had 1 cop in my 60 plus years help me and he probably saved my life. It was in NYC. All of the rest have been cocky, swaggering autocrats or useless in solving the petty crimes of which I have been a victim. Maybe it's because I live in the South. I have no respect for them at this point and I am white. I would never call a cop if I was black.
63
I've been beaten by cops and set up to get 2 years for a crime I didn't commit (assault and battery to cover for a police dog accidentally biting me). It cost me $5,000 to beat the charge on appeal, but my lawyer was one of the best. He had the police on the stand stuttering and trembling. I was lucky I had the money at the time (1984) and he was willing to take my case as a favor. My lawyer knew that the police are regularly able to lie with impunity in court, and he knew how to expose it. The justice system has a natural bias in it toward those who enforce the law. People who can't afford quality defense have a bias against them.
Still, the police have saved my life at least once and I know many cops who are truly fine people. I have benefitted from their service greatly. I still have trouble trusting police, because power is so easy to abuse, but they have a very tough job to do and the majority do it well. They need better training regimes, I believe. And they greatly need the public to have a voice in their oversight.
Still, the police have saved my life at least once and I know many cops who are truly fine people. I have benefitted from their service greatly. I still have trouble trusting police, because power is so easy to abuse, but they have a very tough job to do and the majority do it well. They need better training regimes, I believe. And they greatly need the public to have a voice in their oversight.
1
Will the New York Times ever once stop making excuses for the hugely and exceedingly well-documented divergence in violent crime between blacks and whites?
Blacks die of gun murder at 8.3 times the rate that whites do. and when you look at black men the mutliple is 10 times. That's in the National Vital Statistic Reports, but in a "progressive" publication like this one, cerrtain facts are deemed too "racist" to mention.
Okay, carry on. Don't publish this comment. You're too scared to look reality in the eye. By far, the biggest issue with violent crime is with the black population, but "progressives" are afraid to look at it.
Blacks die of gun murder at 8.3 times the rate that whites do. and when you look at black men the mutliple is 10 times. That's in the National Vital Statistic Reports, but in a "progressive" publication like this one, cerrtain facts are deemed too "racist" to mention.
Okay, carry on. Don't publish this comment. You're too scared to look reality in the eye. By far, the biggest issue with violent crime is with the black population, but "progressives" are afraid to look at it.
23
It appears they published your comment. I am not sure how it relates to the point of the article or how it adds any thing relevant to the conversation.
8
No one is scared of your comment because it is so easy to refute. The well-documented divergence you cite does not prove that people of certain races are more violent than people other races; it proves that racial biases affect reports of and arrests for violent crimes in the same ratio that those racial biases affect shootings.
Your belief that "By far, the biggest issue with violent crime is with the black population" is clearly racist. "Progressives" are not afraid to look at it, and they are not afraid to call it what it is: racism, pure and simple.
Your belief that "By far, the biggest issue with violent crime is with the black population" is clearly racist. "Progressives" are not afraid to look at it, and they are not afraid to call it what it is: racism, pure and simple.
4
Both of you distinguished people are lost in your details and fail to see the bigger picture most common in the common man such as myself.
There is no "War On Cops".
There is a de facto war on the people initiated long ago by the federal government that legislated the "War On Crime" and the "War On Drugs" and like any war, the conduct of those wars have been brutal and final in many cases.
The Congress legislated arming the police with military armaments and many police forces are now staffed by war veterans who are seasoned killers accustomed to lawless mass killing.
No Gentlemen. The nation is nothing like the campuses of Yale and Harvard.
It's brutal.
The Police are very fortunate there is no War on Cops, but they do seem to be hell bent on starting one.
There is no "War On Cops".
There is a de facto war on the people initiated long ago by the federal government that legislated the "War On Crime" and the "War On Drugs" and like any war, the conduct of those wars have been brutal and final in many cases.
The Congress legislated arming the police with military armaments and many police forces are now staffed by war veterans who are seasoned killers accustomed to lawless mass killing.
No Gentlemen. The nation is nothing like the campuses of Yale and Harvard.
It's brutal.
The Police are very fortunate there is no War on Cops, but they do seem to be hell bent on starting one.
96
I once lived in a coop house whose doors were always open. One day a young man walked in the door, went to the back of the house, crouched by a window, and asked, "Do you see the police outside?" I didn't, and told him so. Did I call the police to say there was a fugitive in my house? No. Because I was more afraid of the police than of him. The police do not prevent or solve crimes. They can't. That's a community function, which they can only support and facilitate. If the community does not trust them, they are simply an occupying army, powerless, as all occupiers really are, to help the community in which they serve.
55
Certainly we should have communities where there are no police. The people could just take care of themselves. Let's see how that works.
2
Paradoxically, the residents of the worst crime ridden communities hate law enforcement the most. While some of the this may be explained by police violence and bullying, a more likely explanation is that the police interfere with the prime occupations of these communities, theft and drug sales.
Further, statistics suggest that most of the residents have family member who are in jail, or has been in jail. This explains their disproportionate reactions to police actions. They won’t even assist anonymously.
The residents seek a magical form of policing that stops community violence and murders while providing no support for the effort, and while rejecting any physical presence of the police.
Pogo was right “We has seen the enemy, and it is us”
Further, statistics suggest that most of the residents have family member who are in jail, or has been in jail. This explains their disproportionate reactions to police actions. They won’t even assist anonymously.
The residents seek a magical form of policing that stops community violence and murders while providing no support for the effort, and while rejecting any physical presence of the police.
Pogo was right “We has seen the enemy, and it is us”
16
"the prime occupations of these communities, theft and drug sales"
This condemns whole communities as primarily criminal. That is wrong. Even in the worst areas, most people are just trying to survive the chaos around them.
This condemns whole communities as primarily criminal. That is wrong. Even in the worst areas, most people are just trying to survive the chaos around them.
6
In the military, rules of engagement require you to fire only when fired upon. This needs to be how cops operate as well. They shouldn't be empowered to shoot someone if they're not totally sure the person has a weapon. We need to weed out all the scaredy cats currently on the force.
129
This seems extraordinarily unreasonable, even in contravention of human nature.
Self-defense is a basic human right, and even cops have it.
Self-defense is a basic human right, and even cops have it.
3
Very different circumstances. Military engagement ranges are often far longer and the current military rules are NOT what have been rules of engagement in the past. In law enforcement, the distances are much closer and the potential for hitting a target (or stabbing----see the "Tueller effect") are much higher. If a cop hesitates today, the consequences, both legally and physically for her/him and innocents are great.
3
There is a common thread that runs through what a lot of cops say about the overzealous use of force; they are afraid of the confronted person over powering them and getting a hold of their weapon and using it on them.
The nra has had a big push to stop the sale in the U.S. of smart guns. This technology, if used by police everywhere, would disallow for the possibility of the police weapon being used against the police.
If cops didn't enter every confrontation with the public with that deep seated fear as a precondition of the confrontation, perhaps those confrontations would become interactions. And a lot less people might die.
The nra has had a big push to stop the sale in the U.S. of smart guns. This technology, if used by police everywhere, would disallow for the possibility of the police weapon being used against the police.
If cops didn't enter every confrontation with the public with that deep seated fear as a precondition of the confrontation, perhaps those confrontations would become interactions. And a lot less people might die.
40
Exactly. This is exactly the problem.
2
The author puts forth a very valid idea, that police misbehavior may discourage reporting. However, the phrase, "stop snitchin'", prevalent in the inner city, pre-dates all of the most recent police shootings, many of which were justified. so we should be careful about thinking that this is the main factor behind the "Ferguson Effect". There are many people in the inner city who know who committed a recent homicide, but decline to report it due to the subcultural rejection of "snitching".
7
I'm white, retired and live city with pretty good police, but I'm very reluctant to call the police because I have a son with HIgh Functioning Autism
While I don't worry about the 90% of cops that are good, I would really hate for him to meet a "Comply or Die" cop with a 9mm telling him "Put your hands up and don't move. Now let me see your driver license".
While I don't worry about the 90% of cops that are good, I would really hate for him to meet a "Comply or Die" cop with a 9mm telling him "Put your hands up and don't move. Now let me see your driver license".
208
I cannot comment on why Black Americans don't or won't report a crime as I am a White male but I will say that in my 60 years I have seen the police go from being a respected organization that prided itself on the slogan "to serve and protect " to one that seems more interested in observing and collecting. Whether that is by design or by chance certainly seems to be a reason that the trust factor may be lowered not only in the Black community but all communities.
63
Law enforcement has gotten away from saying things like "People in OUR community" to saying "CITIZENS of this community". They have stopped, for the most part, thinking of themselves as part of the community they police. Until they get rid of this "us" versus "them" attitude things won't change.
2
Why not call a cop? You might get killed when they come to "help"! Police departments have stopped teaching disgression or judgment and told police officers to rely on deadly force. As a result, Innocent people are being killed. While the black community is suffering in this trend is should not be forgotten that white citizens also get abused or killed by officers who simply are too scared or too amped up to exercise judgment or to care. We need to look on this problem as a disease of the whole. We are all at risk and any attack of violence by police is an act against all black or white and we need to tell our leaders that IT MUST STOP!
81
Recent reports on police incompetence make it appear that calling the police equates calling the kill squad. Familiar squabbles, temporary derangements and similar states of mind that belong to the human experience end up with the police just killing the perpetrators of disturbances. Game over. Peace and quiet restored.
And I guess deep down that is what the American public hires the police to do. Restore peace and quiet at any cost. Other than that they can run wild. The police unions make sure that no outrage gets punished and that the public hears of deeds of heroism and self sacrifice while in reality a mob has been unleashed on them that with civil forfeiture and through criminalization of everyday behavior has become an oppressive force that pushes the public into forced labor without noticeable benefits.
And I guess deep down that is what the American public hires the police to do. Restore peace and quiet at any cost. Other than that they can run wild. The police unions make sure that no outrage gets punished and that the public hears of deeds of heroism and self sacrifice while in reality a mob has been unleashed on them that with civil forfeiture and through criminalization of everyday behavior has become an oppressive force that pushes the public into forced labor without noticeable benefits.
20
Many incidents are really people who have lost their emotional control. Domestic calls are like that. So are many others.
What those need first is a calming influence. Good police separate them, establish emotional control, then figure it out.
When the police arrived amped up and emotionally ready for violence themselves, they become part of an even worse problem. Acting like that just makes everything worse. They are failing in their own role.
What those need first is a calming influence. Good police separate them, establish emotional control, then figure it out.
When the police arrived amped up and emotionally ready for violence themselves, they become part of an even worse problem. Acting like that just makes everything worse. They are failing in their own role.
6
Again, ask yourself if this is driven by a police union leadership that has intimidated cities into allowing bad cops to stay on the job.
1
I have very ambivalent feelings about the police. Historically, and to this day, they have been called upon to beat striking workers and unarmed demonstrators. They have infiltrated and spied on every kind of group, from socialists to peace activists to civil rights organizers to Muslims to Black Lives Matter members. Yet when a nutcase in my neighborhood was trying to batter my door down, who else was there to call?
82
Come on now Martha... when are you going to wake up, its 2016. You've cherry picked examples from way back in our history with the exception of two, Muslims and blm members. Show us evidence to back up your claims that the police are beating these two groups? Contrary to what you believe, the police have shown great restraint in handling blm demonstrations. The only time police intervened was when the peaceful demonstrations became violent. Open your eyes and quit living in a dream. And secondly, show us where any Muslims have been beat by law enforcement during any demonstrations... You, and people like you are a large part of why this country is like it is now. You spread lies and half truths to make things fit your agenda. Yes it's true the police have shot and killed blacks, but they have also shot and killed whites as well. And these same groups have also shot and killed police officers. There was a time when the media would report both the good and the bad, but now the media has slanted so far to the left that it's not even funny. They report nothing but the bad things police officers do to help push their agendas. To them it's like reality TV, it's all about "Shock and Awe". It's no longer about getting to the truth. So until people like you smarten up and honestly look at a situation from every angel to really see what's going on we are doomed as a society...
All I can say is that as a white male, I am more fearful of having any contact with police. I have had positive contact with police officers, but I still have fear because if I call, I never know who is going to come. I have seen police bravery and competence, I have knowledge of police misconduct.
117
I am also a white mail. Although I have had a few contacts with police that were civil, primarily state troopers, the vast majority were dismissive, disparaging, aggressive and just plain nasty. I do not consider police to be a supportive part of the community, I consider them criminals with badges.
If I were black I would be apprehensive about walking the street or getting in my car. Asking for help? Forget about it.
If I were black I would be apprehensive about walking the street or getting in my car. Asking for help? Forget about it.
13
Redmist,
You forgot "and guns", itching to pull the trigger.
You forgot "and guns", itching to pull the trigger.
2
No thanks.
I like breathing.
I like breathing.
1
Just as there are more severe penalties for harming cops (in NY 1st degree murder is ONLY for cop-killing) so the penalty for such egregious acts as those described should get DOUBLE sentences if done wantonly by SWORN peace officers.
8
The police are a law unto themselves. They don't want outsiders to tell them how to do their jobs. If their power is challenged they have an unofficial strike by going passive. That is the "Ferguson Effect".
5
For start-up credibility, why not tell us upfront: Of the 804 people killed by cops in 2016, how many were black, how many were unarmed, how many black and unarmed, was the killing cop white or black, etc ? A statistics in table format, answering all the above questions, would add some interest to the well-trodden story.
44
The answer to your question is only partly available, see
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2015/jun/01/the-count...
But the fact that the only attempt to provide the information you request is at a British newspaper is itself extremely telling. There's been a systematic decision not to gather and publish this data - and it sure ain't the black community that is responsible.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2015/jun/01/the-count...
But the fact that the only attempt to provide the information you request is at a British newspaper is itself extremely telling. There's been a systematic decision not to gather and publish this data - and it sure ain't the black community that is responsible.
4
This is exactly the contextualization that such hard-left sociologists can never provide.
In a nation of 320 million, they can close their final paragraph with a list of young black men shot in questionable circumstances. It's munificently obvious the article would lose its punch if they added a list of people of other races similarly shot.
In a nation of 320 million, they can close their final paragraph with a list of young black men shot in questionable circumstances. It's munificently obvious the article would lose its punch if they added a list of people of other races similarly shot.
2
The problem with this article is that it doesn't describe police brutality on whites. Then how can it reach or suggest conclusions that are objective?
7
There have been people killed by the police, of which 194 were black and 500 were white. Why have the white "victims" not been reported by the NYT? Could it be that the NYT is trying to frighten minorities into believing they are in danger from the police?
Meanwhile, there have been 3500 people shot in Chicago and because of the irresponsible reporting and agenda of progressives, people are afraid to call the police or assist in the investigations.
Meanwhile, there have been 3500 people shot in Chicago and because of the irresponsible reporting and agenda of progressives, people are afraid to call the police or assist in the investigations.
28
Blacks are such smaller part of the population than whites and the rate of killing is much higher for blacks relative to their population size.
13
No...it's to gin up black rage and anger, and get those voters to the polls to vote "Democrat" since they are making it appear that only Democrats will let violence, drugs, and crime go on in inner cities WITHOUT policing!
In reality, they will be voting for the woman who called such folks "super predators".
In reality, they will be voting for the woman who called such folks "super predators".
1
According to
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2015/jun/01/the-count...,
of the 807 people killed this year by police, the vast majority were black or native american. To put the 807 number in perspective, the total number of homicides of all types in the UK was far less: one is more likely to be killed by "public safety" in the US than by criminals in the UK.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2015/jun/01/the-count...,
of the 807 people killed this year by police, the vast majority were black or native american. To put the 807 number in perspective, the total number of homicides of all types in the UK was far less: one is more likely to be killed by "public safety" in the US than by criminals in the UK.
7
In he examples given where no race was mentioned, were the victims white? You prominently mention black victims, and so you must feel race is essential to the narrative. But a half-dozen others have mention of race. Why?
I also find the emphasis on a single city/incident highly specious. It would also help to understand if, say, poor white communities with histories of police violence stop reporting crime. If not, why the discrepancy?
I also find the emphasis on a single city/incident highly specious. It would also help to understand if, say, poor white communities with histories of police violence stop reporting crime. If not, why the discrepancy?
10
I grew up in a suburb of Milwaukee. Milwaukee was chosen because after years of relatively little cop on citizen crime, one event occurred and since then violence has increased dramatically. Milwaukee cops are racists. One of Jeffrey Dahmer's early victims was brown. He managed to escape and fled naked to the police. The police took him back to Dahmer and who somehow convinced the police that it was just a lover's quarrel. The young man was later murdered. Had the victim been white, he would have been taken seriously and many lives would have been saved.
3
The Washington Post database of fatal police shootings shows that 76 percent of the 719 people shot and killed so far this year haven’t been black, yet the news media reports, including the New York Times, almost exclusively on police shootings that involve black victims. The unbalanced reporting contributes to the racial animosity and rioting now sweeping the country. It is true that blacks make about 13 percent of the population and about 24 percent of police shooting victims, but this is not the relevant statistic. The relevant statistic is the number of shootings compared to the number of arrests. The 2015 FBI Uniform Crime Report (Table 43: Arrests by Race & Ethnicity) shows blacks made up 27 percent of those arrested. It also shows blacks make up 36 percent of those arrested for violent crimes, including 51.1 percent of those arrested for murder and 53.5 percent of those arrested for robbery, the type of violent crimes that often result in police shootings. The New York Times recently published a front-page article about a new study (“An Empirical Analysis of Racial Differences in Police Use of Force”) that shows no racial disparity in police-involved shootings. Each racial and ethnic group makes up about the same percent of police shooting fatalities as they do of arrests.
32
But William....those facts will NOT work to "gin up" the black voting base in order to get them to the polls to vote for Empress Hillary!
Ergo, those facts do not "matter" to the lefty media.
Ergo, those facts do not "matter" to the lefty media.
2
Your own calculated figure of 24% black is twice the rate of anyone else. Twice as often is a problem, just on the face of your own numbers.
3
But it's not a relevant statistic because racial biases also affect arrests for violent crimes. It's all part of the same dynamic. Minorities are suspects more often, they are arrested more often, they are charged more often, and they are shot more often. The percentage of racially biased arrests do not disprove the percentage of racially biased shootings. All the study you cite proves is that racial bias affects arrests as well as shootings. We all knew that already.
7
Anyone that denies that many major city police departments have gone fetal, is no different than the climate change deniers. You can stick your head in the sand, if you choose, but by the time you pull it out, these cities will have been decimated.
7
The argument appears to be that more effective efforts at punishing and controlling police violence against blacks must be made in order to control secondary effects and keep violent crime down in black communities. Many Americans probably would accept the data the authors offer and agree with that argument, and see the solution as better selection of police officers, better training, better supervision and an enhanced willingness to prosecute police abuse.
But we’re already seeing a trend of diminished police presence in black communities in order to avoid the kinds of incidents that have sparked the controversies of the past few years, and the legal implications that have followed. If that trend becomes entrenched, how will that affect the ability to control violent crime in those communities?
This is a complex issue. Our police departments do need to change and do need to build better relationships with black communities whose strength can help overcome the occurrence of a specific incident of abuse. But to do all this, including a police presence in black neighborhoods sufficient to better interact with residents and to better control violent crime, will require immensely greater resources than most cities can afford to dedicate to law enforcement.
It’s a complex issue with no easy answers.
But we’re already seeing a trend of diminished police presence in black communities in order to avoid the kinds of incidents that have sparked the controversies of the past few years, and the legal implications that have followed. If that trend becomes entrenched, how will that affect the ability to control violent crime in those communities?
This is a complex issue. Our police departments do need to change and do need to build better relationships with black communities whose strength can help overcome the occurrence of a specific incident of abuse. But to do all this, including a police presence in black neighborhoods sufficient to better interact with residents and to better control violent crime, will require immensely greater resources than most cities can afford to dedicate to law enforcement.
It’s a complex issue with no easy answers.
11
"It’s a complex issue with no easy answers." That's right, Richard, but there are several issues we must grapple with so we can choose the correct difficult answers. Here's just one.
Very little progress will be made until fearfulness between the parties is defused. Officers involved in shooting deaths of unarmed civilians uniformly cite fear for their lives as the trigger, while civilians say unpredictable behavior by police makes it risky to call them. Both are honest feelings, but feelings are not reality - they are indicators that there's something that needs one's attention and coping skills.
Why does an officer so often see a non-existent gun? I think because individuals become racialist through osmosis from our society. Unwanted thoughts based on race are a daily foe I personally must observe, examine and validate or choke into submission. That's hard enough without a big shot of adrenaline forcing me to flee, fight or freeze.
Why does an unarmed black man so often refuse to comply with police demands made with guns drawn? I think because he's awash in resentment of society's negativity toward him; black men are very often stopped unconstitutionally due to racialism; and he hasn't dismissed the American now-myth he acquired through osmosis that unarmed people aren't to be shot at.
City, county, state and federal budgets reflect our priorities - we afford what we want. Riot gear or professional-level pay to recruit our best ? Tanks or non-lethal marksmanship?
Very little progress will be made until fearfulness between the parties is defused. Officers involved in shooting deaths of unarmed civilians uniformly cite fear for their lives as the trigger, while civilians say unpredictable behavior by police makes it risky to call them. Both are honest feelings, but feelings are not reality - they are indicators that there's something that needs one's attention and coping skills.
Why does an officer so often see a non-existent gun? I think because individuals become racialist through osmosis from our society. Unwanted thoughts based on race are a daily foe I personally must observe, examine and validate or choke into submission. That's hard enough without a big shot of adrenaline forcing me to flee, fight or freeze.
Why does an unarmed black man so often refuse to comply with police demands made with guns drawn? I think because he's awash in resentment of society's negativity toward him; black men are very often stopped unconstitutionally due to racialism; and he hasn't dismissed the American now-myth he acquired through osmosis that unarmed people aren't to be shot at.
City, county, state and federal budgets reflect our priorities - we afford what we want. Riot gear or professional-level pay to recruit our best ? Tanks or non-lethal marksmanship?
7
It is a complex issue. But your misdirection about the "costs" of effective policing is at best, disingenuous.
Community-based policing can save dollars (and lives).
If the police are to serve the interests of their community, they must be held accountable: rewarded for success and sanctioned for failure at both personal and institutional levels.
Their performance of duty must be subjected to empathetic transparency when judged -- we should be sympathetic to the sometimes exquisite pressures of their jobs. Yet we must hold police accountable for their "duties of care."
One easy but partial answer would be to demilitarize the police. A second would be to empower meaningful civilian review. A third would be to institutionally offer protection for those harmed by police, perhaps a sort of ombudsperson for persons who might provide a measure of justice and the impetus for organizational change.
Community-based policing can save dollars (and lives).
If the police are to serve the interests of their community, they must be held accountable: rewarded for success and sanctioned for failure at both personal and institutional levels.
Their performance of duty must be subjected to empathetic transparency when judged -- we should be sympathetic to the sometimes exquisite pressures of their jobs. Yet we must hold police accountable for their "duties of care."
One easy but partial answer would be to demilitarize the police. A second would be to empower meaningful civilian review. A third would be to institutionally offer protection for those harmed by police, perhaps a sort of ombudsperson for persons who might provide a measure of justice and the impetus for organizational change.
5
UberGoober:
So your solutions to the challenge that faces us are ... do away with racism in our society, from which we draw our police, and eliminate the violence that erupts in impoverished neighborhoods by eliminating poverty?
I guess I agree. Now, THAT shouldn't take more than another century, if it ever happens at all.
So your solutions to the challenge that faces us are ... do away with racism in our society, from which we draw our police, and eliminate the violence that erupts in impoverished neighborhoods by eliminating poverty?
I guess I agree. Now, THAT shouldn't take more than another century, if it ever happens at all.
1
"When citizens lose faith in the police, they are more apt to take the law into their own hands."
Is there any evidence that the 32% increase in murders in Milwakee in those six months represented anyone taking the law into their own hands?
I ought to be possible to review the few hundred murder reports for those six months. That is one specific crime, that leaves bodies to be picked up and counted, and in numbers that can be reviewed.
It should be quickly apparent if a quarter or so of them were vigilante justice, or self defense that could have called for help but did not.
That would be a quick opportunity to falsify this theory, which is science jargon for "proving it."
Is there any evidence that the 32% increase in murders in Milwakee in those six months represented anyone taking the law into their own hands?
I ought to be possible to review the few hundred murder reports for those six months. That is one specific crime, that leaves bodies to be picked up and counted, and in numbers that can be reviewed.
It should be quickly apparent if a quarter or so of them were vigilante justice, or self defense that could have called for help but did not.
That would be a quick opportunity to falsify this theory, which is science jargon for "proving it."
16
Something similar happens in neighborhoods with many immigrants, some without papers. They won't call the police even if they're crime victims or witnesses because they fear that the police, far from helping them, will turn them in to Immigration. Some crimes go unreported, and some witnesses who could identify criminals don't do so out of fear -- not fear of the criminals, but of the police.
Recently I was at a picnic in a park, with my back to the street, when two cars crashed loudly and then there were screams. A family speaking another language than English was at the next picnic table, many of them facing the street. I called 911 and then went to see if I could render first aid at the scene. By the time the police came, the family -- who could have described what happened and as witnesses could have helped the police determine who was at fault in the accident -- had melted away.
The argument for no-ethic-profiling policing is that having the police treat everyone equally protects us all -- white or black, male or female, immigrant or citizen, religious or not. We'd all be safer.
Recently I was at a picnic in a park, with my back to the street, when two cars crashed loudly and then there were screams. A family speaking another language than English was at the next picnic table, many of them facing the street. I called 911 and then went to see if I could render first aid at the scene. By the time the police came, the family -- who could have described what happened and as witnesses could have helped the police determine who was at fault in the accident -- had melted away.
The argument for no-ethic-profiling policing is that having the police treat everyone equally protects us all -- white or black, male or female, immigrant or citizen, religious or not. We'd all be safer.
132
Isn't it ethnic profiling to assume they have immigration issues because they don't speak English?
2
Legal immigrants ARE citizens. You were witnessing illegal aliens, who are criminals, running from police out of fear of being deported (as they should be!).
3
A formerly middle class neighborhood in Dallas has become a center for just this sort of behavior. The undocumented are more fearful of the gangs than the police. So they allow things to happen and fester until it becomes a much larger problem. High schools in these areas suffer the most because many of the gangs use kids as low level workers. As a result teenagers are too often caught in the cross fire. Oh sure the public mourns and a GoFundMe page is set up for the family, but it glosses over the fact that the failure to report drug sales, prostitution, robberies and such early on lets gangs establish an economic base that moves onto other larger crimes. Both the Webb Chapel Extension and the Audelia area are zones where low income housing, undocumented residents and poverty have led to an almost daily spike in crime. Both those areas used to be nice apartments, young families, good schools. Now it's dangerous just to drive down those streets at night. That's just Dallas, other cities have similar stories.
Listen to them talk! The policeman has names for the different types of people he/she meets. If the officer classifies you as a "dirtbag" "knucklehead" "perp" etc. anything goes.