I'm still waiting for a male columnist to acknowledge the difficulties faced by any woman running for political office. Especially when that office is the Presidency of the United States. As a woman of Hillary Clinton's generation, I am awed at her accomplishments, in spite of the constant drumbeat of criticism from men like you who are never satisfied. There's a deep strain of misogyny that runs through columns like yours. You may not be conscious of it, but women are.
54
The weakness in much of the presidential race reporting is that it categorizes voters without looking more deeply at what issues concern them and why. So we have numbers on the back vote, the Latino vote, the millennials, the white working class, suburban mom's etc. But when you look at what's really behind those categories you will find concerns that neither candidate or party is addressing.
Americans want national defense not endless overseas wars. Neither candidate goes beyond vague phrases to explain how we end 14 years of war. All groups are concerned about global warming, but as our cities drown, barely a mention about this critical issue.
Trump says that cutting taxes will create jobs. Clinton says that raising taxes will create job growth. In our financialized global economy neither of those old methods is liable to work. We've tried massive quantitative easing (printing money and giving it away to corporations and banks) and that hasn't worked. Europe tried austerity, cutting the public sector to the bone, and that hasn't worked. How about some serious dialogue about our economy?
The truth is Trump's comments that 80% of Americans are struggling is right. Neoliberal policies have funneled 95% of income gains to the top 1% and this trend is likely to continue. While Trump doesn't have a solution, Clinton pretends like the people behind those numbers don't eve exist. People may vote for the one who at least knows what their problems are, even without a solution.
Americans want national defense not endless overseas wars. Neither candidate goes beyond vague phrases to explain how we end 14 years of war. All groups are concerned about global warming, but as our cities drown, barely a mention about this critical issue.
Trump says that cutting taxes will create jobs. Clinton says that raising taxes will create job growth. In our financialized global economy neither of those old methods is liable to work. We've tried massive quantitative easing (printing money and giving it away to corporations and banks) and that hasn't worked. Europe tried austerity, cutting the public sector to the bone, and that hasn't worked. How about some serious dialogue about our economy?
The truth is Trump's comments that 80% of Americans are struggling is right. Neoliberal policies have funneled 95% of income gains to the top 1% and this trend is likely to continue. While Trump doesn't have a solution, Clinton pretends like the people behind those numbers don't eve exist. People may vote for the one who at least knows what their problems are, even without a solution.
10
In hindsight, I wish Secretary Clinton had pointed out that her "nasty ads" were all basically clips of Donald Trump in his own words.
Additionally, while he and his father were rejecting African American applicants for housing (which he doesn't deny) Hillary Rodham was traveling the south trying to expose these inequities.
How could a choice be more stark?
Additionally, while he and his father were rejecting African American applicants for housing (which he doesn't deny) Hillary Rodham was traveling the south trying to expose these inequities.
How could a choice be more stark?
43
'Clinton’s reversal on the free trade that has, on balance, been good for the American economy for decades has left her vulnerable, defending positions of which she herself is unconvinced.'
Good for whom in the American economy?
Good for whom in the American economy?
9
This election at times feels like two kids running for high school student body president. One is the studious nerd vs the star quarterback. The nerd will study all the issue and likely try to micromanage everything. The quarterback is counting on his cool factor and plans on winging all his decision.
The main difference is that this isn't high school but the United States of America. I for one would rather have someone cares about the job rather than the one who just wants to look cool.
The main difference is that this isn't high school but the United States of America. I for one would rather have someone cares about the job rather than the one who just wants to look cool.
17
It's Wisconsin in America.
One moment in Robert Drew's Primary depicts Jack Kennedy saying 'we have to do it again in West Virginia' or something fairly close when the Wisconsin presidential primary yielded no decisive victory in the 1960 Democratic nomination contest.
The same may be said of the initial presidential debate.
Numerous fact checks that Trump embellished or misrepresented one or another fact may comfort and reconfirm some orientations, particularly among salaried professionals whose livelihoods reside with verification and measurement, yet fail to address a countervailing orientation, long standing in American commerce and culture, to say virtually anything to close a deal and to then address stubborn facts.
Donald Trump is as much Twain's Tom Sawyer as Herman Melville's Confidence Man.
He adds a contemporary, bursty communications literacy, a new literacy along the lines Cohen has written about earlier, to propound fresh 21st century wealth along the lines of late 19th century American capitalism while Clinton retreads FDR and Keynes with mid 20th century rhetoric.
Neither has had much to say about demand management, capital markets or wealth creation by tapping available technologies nor is either addressing hoarding as an animating factor affecting many citizens and voters adversely.
One moment in Robert Drew's Primary depicts Jack Kennedy saying 'we have to do it again in West Virginia' or something fairly close when the Wisconsin presidential primary yielded no decisive victory in the 1960 Democratic nomination contest.
The same may be said of the initial presidential debate.
Numerous fact checks that Trump embellished or misrepresented one or another fact may comfort and reconfirm some orientations, particularly among salaried professionals whose livelihoods reside with verification and measurement, yet fail to address a countervailing orientation, long standing in American commerce and culture, to say virtually anything to close a deal and to then address stubborn facts.
Donald Trump is as much Twain's Tom Sawyer as Herman Melville's Confidence Man.
He adds a contemporary, bursty communications literacy, a new literacy along the lines Cohen has written about earlier, to propound fresh 21st century wealth along the lines of late 19th century American capitalism while Clinton retreads FDR and Keynes with mid 20th century rhetoric.
Neither has had much to say about demand management, capital markets or wealth creation by tapping available technologies nor is either addressing hoarding as an animating factor affecting many citizens and voters adversely.
1
Those supporting Trump don't see these as shortcomings. They are the rebels, formerly known as the Tea Party, who stormed the walls of the GOP and took it over.
My former party lost its way. These Tea Party members are living in yesteryear and still look at the United States as the last standing world power as we were after World War II. They ignore the fact that the Eurozone has the largest marketplace in the world. They ignore reality with China becoming a world power that will have more college graduates in it's workforce by 2023 than our entire workforce.
These same GOP members choose to forget that in the 1950's we, with the prompting of Winston Churchill, overthrew the only democratically elected leader of Iran in the 1950's for their oil.
The remainder of the world is not allowing us to be a bully anymore and we need to adjust.
My former party lost its way. These Tea Party members are living in yesteryear and still look at the United States as the last standing world power as we were after World War II. They ignore the fact that the Eurozone has the largest marketplace in the world. They ignore reality with China becoming a world power that will have more college graduates in it's workforce by 2023 than our entire workforce.
These same GOP members choose to forget that in the 1950's we, with the prompting of Winston Churchill, overthrew the only democratically elected leader of Iran in the 1950's for their oil.
The remainder of the world is not allowing us to be a bully anymore and we need to adjust.
19
DT could satisfy a big hunk of his core support if he stayed white and male right through the debate. Advantage Donnie.
Clinton has faced over 16 years of near constant and generally false attacks from Fox News and Limbaugh. In a 90 minute presentation, she could hardly help looking better than the false impression held by those who only knew her from the presentations of Roger, Rupert and Rush. Advantage Clinton.
DT was stuck on the stage with someone who had no expectation of any long term relationship with him. Clinton will never be his business associate, VP nominee, Cabinet member, or Court appointee. She has no reason to be nice. Disadvantage Donnie.
The deck was stacked, at least a little.
Next debate, he may want to get pneumonia himself.
Clinton has faced over 16 years of near constant and generally false attacks from Fox News and Limbaugh. In a 90 minute presentation, she could hardly help looking better than the false impression held by those who only knew her from the presentations of Roger, Rupert and Rush. Advantage Clinton.
DT was stuck on the stage with someone who had no expectation of any long term relationship with him. Clinton will never be his business associate, VP nominee, Cabinet member, or Court appointee. She has no reason to be nice. Disadvantage Donnie.
The deck was stacked, at least a little.
Next debate, he may want to get pneumonia himself.
11
Clinton's goal is to persuade country club Republican women to forget to vote. This is why she is running the negative "quote" ads. It's a Presidential so Democrats will come out, and she has a lot of institutional support and a good chance to win her election without Republican votes BUT if the cloth coat Republicans stay home they will not cast votes for Republican Congressman which gives Clinton a chance to have a somewhat agreeable Congress.
1
"Clinton won Monday night, by any conventional reckoning. But whether that makes victory for her on Nov. 8 any more likely is unclear."
What an indictment on the voting public, as well as those who do not show up at the polls.
What an indictment on the voting public, as well as those who do not show up at the polls.
18
Complaints, or even comments intended to be analytic, about Hillary Clinton's "rehearsed", or "scripted", or "polished" demeanor in the debate are ludicrous at best, demeaning at worst. I prepared for my graduate comprehensive written and oral exams, as well as my dissertation defense, with a thorough a study of research and close attention to discovering numerous qualified avenues of responses to any questions that I might foresee, including the occasional "I apologize" or "I don't know" response, if necessary, with reference to research that allowed me to demonstrate that whatever I didn't know, I didn't know very well. To expect less of a presidential candidate is heresy in my world, and to witness less in a presidential candidate is reason for immediate disqualification.
28
This election is playing out like an election for HS President with Hillary Clinton running as the honor student who can get along with the administration and will do their bidding and Donald Trump running as the rich underachieving student whose parents let him have keg parties and who doesn't care what anybody thinks about him. The "common sense" college prep kids will vote for Hillary and the kids who like to party will vote for Donald. Here's the question: will the kids in the vo-tech and business courses bother to vote? If so, who will they vote for?
5
Yes, she was better prepared, but still she again squandered golden opportunities, the first being a clear concise, statement that the TPP, is dead, period, and will not be considered again during her tenure.
I keep saying it, and say it again; her second failure is in not adopting Bernies platform, in its entirety.
Unless she surprises all of us, she will continue in the lackluster vein, proposing her incrementalism, which is nothing more than the Republican trickle-down economic policy that has reduced the poor and the middle-class, to penury.
We are now serfs in a new modern Feudalism, economic slaves, existing to serve our corporate owned government.
I keep saying it, and say it again; her second failure is in not adopting Bernies platform, in its entirety.
Unless she surprises all of us, she will continue in the lackluster vein, proposing her incrementalism, which is nothing more than the Republican trickle-down economic policy that has reduced the poor and the middle-class, to penury.
We are now serfs in a new modern Feudalism, economic slaves, existing to serve our corporate owned government.
7
" Clinton was measured and assured, if a little too much of a policy wonk at times."
Excuse me, but when did being a "policy wonk" become a pejorative quality? Isn't this characterization just reflecting the fact that anything that's too sophisticated for Trump and most of his supporters to process is a bad thing, further contributing to the "dumbing down" of the American electorate?
Excuse me, but when did being a "policy wonk" become a pejorative quality? Isn't this characterization just reflecting the fact that anything that's too sophisticated for Trump and most of his supporters to process is a bad thing, further contributing to the "dumbing down" of the American electorate?
37
She left enough openings where Trump could've driven a Mack truck through. For example, why was she "testifying 11 hours before a House committee"?
Because she is a criminal.
Because she is a criminal.
6
Every time I read that Americans want change I just want to sniff and snort like the Donald because I wish that Americans would direct their anger appropriately - at the GOP that has spent the last 30 years trying to ram Reagan's failed agenda down our throats. Both in and out of the White House the GOP either thru subversion or obstruction has pursued nothing but a pro .001% agenda at the expense of the middle class and the overall health of the country.
Trump will bring change allright, He will user in an America of a Rudy Giuliani police state coupled with Paul Ryan's dystopian Ayn Randian every man for himself economy. Is that even what the angry white hoardes that support Trump want?
Trump will bring change allright, He will user in an America of a Rudy Giuliani police state coupled with Paul Ryan's dystopian Ayn Randian every man for himself economy. Is that even what the angry white hoardes that support Trump want?
17
Hillary Clinton clearly defeated Donald Trump in the first debate. In my opinion that was a good thing. But you are right. To appropriate Walt Kelly's great comment, winning a debate is only winning a debate, winning an election is a cigar of a different feather.
7
If It it doesn't matter, then we face a grim future. He proved himself to be so far a leader than will bring this amazing country to a dark and conflict ridden nation.
She was the winner, the only President on stage. If America chooses Trump after last night we need to look at each other. Trumps real threat is the mindless hoarde that sits at his knee.
If America wants what he's giving..our country is beyond peril.
At the end of the day we choose...
She was the winner, the only President on stage. If America chooses Trump after last night we need to look at each other. Trumps real threat is the mindless hoarde that sits at his knee.
If America wants what he's giving..our country is beyond peril.
At the end of the day we choose...
13
Some questions I've heard on the radio.
1. Why didn't the moderator ask about Benghazi, emails or the Clinton Foundation. How many Congressional hearings have there been on Benghazi? Hillary spent 11 hours answering questions about that awful night - mostly the same questions. And the emails - she did answer - she did it, it was a mistake, she wouldn't do it again. Done.
As to the Foundation - again there have been numerous reports on the Clinton Foundation - which actually does real good in the world. I would have loved hearing about the Trump Foundation, which sounds like another Trump scam. And how about questions on Trump University and the fact that none of the Trump merchandise is made in the USA. Trump got away lucky with the questions.
2. She looked 'polished' while he looked 'real'. This one is weird. She did look polished - that's the confident look that comes from being prepared, doing your homework. He looked like a mess - he started by making faces as she talked. I don't if that's one of his famed 'negotiating skills' but he should have realized that she couldn't see his face and he just looked silly. But I'll give them the 'real' part -Trump looked real silly.
3. Trump sounded like he cared. I agree Trump does care - about making money off the misery of the Great Recession, about stiffing contractors and vendors, about not paying taxes. Trump did come across as caring - but all he cares about is himself. He's a liar and a cheat.
1. Why didn't the moderator ask about Benghazi, emails or the Clinton Foundation. How many Congressional hearings have there been on Benghazi? Hillary spent 11 hours answering questions about that awful night - mostly the same questions. And the emails - she did answer - she did it, it was a mistake, she wouldn't do it again. Done.
As to the Foundation - again there have been numerous reports on the Clinton Foundation - which actually does real good in the world. I would have loved hearing about the Trump Foundation, which sounds like another Trump scam. And how about questions on Trump University and the fact that none of the Trump merchandise is made in the USA. Trump got away lucky with the questions.
2. She looked 'polished' while he looked 'real'. This one is weird. She did look polished - that's the confident look that comes from being prepared, doing your homework. He looked like a mess - he started by making faces as she talked. I don't if that's one of his famed 'negotiating skills' but he should have realized that she couldn't see his face and he just looked silly. But I'll give them the 'real' part -Trump looked real silly.
3. Trump sounded like he cared. I agree Trump does care - about making money off the misery of the Great Recession, about stiffing contractors and vendors, about not paying taxes. Trump did come across as caring - but all he cares about is himself. He's a liar and a cheat.
29
I wont be a breakthrough for me until one of the candidates stops the slander and tells me what the heck they are going to do when they become President. I get it Mr Trump...Hillary is a liar and a crook. I get it Ms. Clinton....Trump is a sexist who doesn't deserve to be a human being. You can stop spending millions on advertising telling me the same thing. Talk to me please, and stop sending me to you website. Talk to me.
10
I have discovered her problem, not from the debate but from talking about it: people just do not believe in service. None of my colleagues are willing to accept that someone would want to be President for the sake of serving the country and for the good of the People. The assumption is that both candidates are driven by a quest for power and money and position. The acceptance of pure self interest. Clinton, in my opinion, needs to counter this. If she could convince voters that she is driven by a desire to serve, then she would shine.
14
Normally a presidential candidates position on important issues like, national security, the economy, illegal immigration or even whether Bill Clinton's infidelity is worse than Trump's would determine how voters choose the next president. But not in this election.
This election is going to be decided by which candidate is the most trustworthy and who has the best temperament to lead our country. That choice will not hinge on the voters' understanding of esoteric economic theories or the intricacies of foreign policy in the Middle Easy, but on the quality of a candidates's personality to be our next president.
This election is going to be decided by which candidate is the most trustworthy and who has the best temperament to lead our country. That choice will not hinge on the voters' understanding of esoteric economic theories or the intricacies of foreign policy in the Middle Easy, but on the quality of a candidates's personality to be our next president.
I felt asleep during the debate, maybe because it started at 2 PM in UK, but also because it looked like an insult duel between neighbors. Not an happy moment. America, you can find better leaders.
2
Roger of all the post debate columns you have zeroed in on what is most tragic about this presidential election. You nailed what most voters find so profoundly uninspiring in Hillary.....the fact they will never get the unexpected and unscripted in her...they will never get an authentic human connection....the only thing she has to offer is tired political bromides. We need inspiring leadership now more than ever...given her deficient character traits I don't see how Clinton will ever be an effective leader...this feels more like an awkward coronation rather than an an election. Of course we all knew Trump never has the right stuff to be POTUS...he proved it in the debate. But is this best candidate the Democratic has? We have to put forth better people.
3
Mr. Cohen's analysis is brilliant and incisive. I watched a slightly different debate, one which I think many people saw- the same debate, from a woman's point of view. Or, to be more precise, rather than from "the male gaze", from a woman's perspective. I'm not female, but watching Mrs. Clinton (the first woman candidate for president from a major party) confronting Trump's intemperate bullying, makes one takes her side either way. Just as one watches a Shaw heroine, like St. Joan, or Eliza Doolittle (in the end), stand up to someone who is bullying them, one instinctively cheers for them, and empathetically takes on their struggle.
This is at the heart of the "trust" meme. Women watch Hillary dance backward in high heels. They can see how hard it is. But Hillary isn't given any quarter for being a woman in a man's world, by the media. For years she had to prove that that didn't matter, so much so that when she sniffed about it for one second in New Hampshire, it opened up a debate about whether she meant to show emotion or not.
Unfortunately for the legitimacy of this argument, that a woman had to be perfect (but not humble brag!) to even compete, we have this cartoon of an election, where her opponent is not even fit to contract to do construction work on the WH (or even touch it), let alone occupy it.
Fair analysis, Mr. Cohen. But really, what the heck do you want?
(sigh)
This is at the heart of the "trust" meme. Women watch Hillary dance backward in high heels. They can see how hard it is. But Hillary isn't given any quarter for being a woman in a man's world, by the media. For years she had to prove that that didn't matter, so much so that when she sniffed about it for one second in New Hampshire, it opened up a debate about whether she meant to show emotion or not.
Unfortunately for the legitimacy of this argument, that a woman had to be perfect (but not humble brag!) to even compete, we have this cartoon of an election, where her opponent is not even fit to contract to do construction work on the WH (or even touch it), let alone occupy it.
Fair analysis, Mr. Cohen. But really, what the heck do you want?
(sigh)
16
Shame on today's Republicans for being led by the nose by their crackpotty publicists, conspiracists, misogynists, racists and smear-mongers. Enough already.
Give them an enema! Starting with The Donald. Next, Mitch McConnell, etc.
Give them an enema! Starting with The Donald. Next, Mitch McConnell, etc.
6
So, Hillary is clearly to blame for not being able to frame a coherent argument for the completely irrational? Care to mansplain?
12
Initially, I thought Trump looked the best I've seen him in years, even his cotton candy pink hair looked somewhat in order, but the next time I looked at him, was looking and sounding like a souffle slowly deflating. I never imagined I could loath any politician more than GW Bush (and his Jackels: Cheney, Rove, Rummy et al)...smug and arrogant Romney and Cruz come to mind, but I think I detest Trump even more. I could not bear to have to listen to him ad nauseum as POTUS. My hope and dream is that he just fades away. Look at his poor pathetic advisor, Rudy G., once upon a time a really liked, admired and respected him, now is just another has been pathetic power hungry politician. Is there anyone in the GOP who is decent and not a miserable and pathetic person?
8
"Bernie Sanders pushed her left of her comfort zone on trade, and now she is cornered."
That is not true Roger. No American is going to blame Hillary for agreeing to what Donald himself is advocating - restrict free trade.
You can accuse her for being 'late to this position'; but that is a different criticism than why did she adopt 'this position'.
That is not true Roger. No American is going to blame Hillary for agreeing to what Donald himself is advocating - restrict free trade.
You can accuse her for being 'late to this position'; but that is a different criticism than why did she adopt 'this position'.
2
She may or may not have attracted anyone's commitment to herself, but she gave everyone the experience of being disgusted with the only true alternative there is.
3
Clinton did well. She goaded Trump into a defensive position, and then he crumbled while she stayed cool. But did it change voters' minds?
Trump supporters stay with him no matter what. Some uncommitteds might lean away from him, but will they break towards Clinton?
It's hard to say that the debate showed us much new to like about Clinton. Trump's voters are much more enthusiastic than hers, and she needs enthusiasm to attract new voters and drive turnout. And to do that, as pundits have been saying all along, she needs to show passion for the voters' main issues, and enthusiasm for their solutions.
Trump supporters stay with him no matter what. Some uncommitteds might lean away from him, but will they break towards Clinton?
It's hard to say that the debate showed us much new to like about Clinton. Trump's voters are much more enthusiastic than hers, and she needs enthusiasm to attract new voters and drive turnout. And to do that, as pundits have been saying all along, she needs to show passion for the voters' main issues, and enthusiasm for their solutions.
2
I utterly fail to comprehend the title of this piece, "Clinton’s Victory Without Breakthrough"..It sounds like a title that was too good to pass up with a story line built around it. Why must there be a Break Though? Last night wasn't a theater role. If anything, the title and article should have been about "Trump's Break-Down".
18
I don’t like being told to go to Clinton’s or anybody’s web site. Let her convince us.
The majority of citizens want ‘rupture’ not continuity. But Repub and many Dem voters have been so inculcated by Gop trickle down trash---you’re on your own as freedom loving individuals and too much govt is bad --- that Americans are confused about who will represent them, and what is coming to them. They should be marching in the streets—but they leave that only to Black Lives Matter or the Fight for 15. (the “underclass”).
Where is the middle class, as their security has gone down the drain? Right where the Gop rw wants them---angry, but passive, and often even cooperative, as they identify with their exploiters.
The Dems are weak defenders of the average person---and how can they not be, when dependent on the wealthiest elites to run for office? So, Roger Cohen---international reporter/columnist--- when will you write on campaign finance---contrast USA billionaire campaigns with countries using public financing?? Just for kicks. How come no insurance/drug co’s and gun lobbies are directing their lawmaking??
It’s both parties’ trends of the last few decades that Clinton should disavow. Free trade deals, job outsourcing, tax favoritism, Wall St in the cabinet designing the recovery, and max profits for health care we must subsidize.
Will Hillary reverse the trends of Bill and Barack? Or do we have to wait another 4 or 8 years—or even more? America the Beautiful.
The majority of citizens want ‘rupture’ not continuity. But Repub and many Dem voters have been so inculcated by Gop trickle down trash---you’re on your own as freedom loving individuals and too much govt is bad --- that Americans are confused about who will represent them, and what is coming to them. They should be marching in the streets—but they leave that only to Black Lives Matter or the Fight for 15. (the “underclass”).
Where is the middle class, as their security has gone down the drain? Right where the Gop rw wants them---angry, but passive, and often even cooperative, as they identify with their exploiters.
The Dems are weak defenders of the average person---and how can they not be, when dependent on the wealthiest elites to run for office? So, Roger Cohen---international reporter/columnist--- when will you write on campaign finance---contrast USA billionaire campaigns with countries using public financing?? Just for kicks. How come no insurance/drug co’s and gun lobbies are directing their lawmaking??
It’s both parties’ trends of the last few decades that Clinton should disavow. Free trade deals, job outsourcing, tax favoritism, Wall St in the cabinet designing the recovery, and max profits for health care we must subsidize.
Will Hillary reverse the trends of Bill and Barack? Or do we have to wait another 4 or 8 years—or even more? America the Beautiful.
2
This event was spectacle of opponents denouncing each other. Not much of essence debated.
Trump was throwing grievances with no solution in sight. Hillary was not addressing the future of coalminers and steel workers with dire jobs prospects.
How should they go on when industries are collapsing? With advances in autonomous vehicles will commercial drivers switch to writing smartphone apps for a living? Let the markets decide who sinks or swims?
Trump was throwing grievances with no solution in sight. Hillary was not addressing the future of coalminers and steel workers with dire jobs prospects.
How should they go on when industries are collapsing? With advances in autonomous vehicles will commercial drivers switch to writing smartphone apps for a living? Let the markets decide who sinks or swims?
1
Trump is the symptom, not the disease. The disease is the whole electoral system of rigged primaries, gerrymandering, delegates, super delegates, electoral college, duopoly of 2 lousy party, a debate commission privately owned.....in other words the absence of a modern system of representative democracy.
2
Please give me Bernie Sanders. She is tired, old lady with old outdated ideas that don't work.
4
This is a good and very much needed analysis. One of these days, someone will need to point out that Trump's world consists entirely of interacting with people just like him, and with no one else. The consequence of this is that he's never been challenged - when he says something blatantly false and outrageous, he's met with nodding heads. After that, someone in his crowd says something equally false and outrageous, and Mr. Trump nods and then tops that comment. After a lifetime of this, he thinks it's the real world. I think Mr. Trump spent 90 minutes in the real world for the first time in his life last night.
5
What strikes me as ironic is that Trump seems motivated largely by being accepted into the club of intellectuals and respected leaders. He was incensed at his treatment at the White House correspondents dinner. But these are the very people who now regard him even more as a fool and a liar.
4
If anyone thinks the debate will move a significant amount of votes one way or the other, they're nuts. Other than a small number of undecided, people's minds are made up. Made for TV events, like the debate, reinforce each' image with their supporters. The only questions is who will win the get-out-the-vote battle. And people just aren't that crazy about Hillary...and Trump has the momentum.
2
Mrs. Clinton continues to be penalized for being so informed, so intelligent, so prepared, and so capable - even the author of this op-ed describes her as "a little too much of a policy wonk at times" which is a disappointing statement to read...don't we want someone as President who really gets down into the weeds in order to make things work?
And while she is being penalized and held to a standard so high there is no human who can reach that dizzying height, Mr. Trump benefits from his ignorance, his callousness, from a supreme lack of empathy, and a frightening inability to regulate his emotions...everyone thinks he's succeeded, if he simply doesn't bully "too much" or doesn't open his mouth "too much."
One of these two will be our next President, so we better ALL start judging both of these candidates using the same yardstick. It's the same job, and when you hire for a job, every candidate has to have the right credentials, the right experience, and the right temperament to actually perform the work, once hired.
And while she is being penalized and held to a standard so high there is no human who can reach that dizzying height, Mr. Trump benefits from his ignorance, his callousness, from a supreme lack of empathy, and a frightening inability to regulate his emotions...everyone thinks he's succeeded, if he simply doesn't bully "too much" or doesn't open his mouth "too much."
One of these two will be our next President, so we better ALL start judging both of these candidates using the same yardstick. It's the same job, and when you hire for a job, every candidate has to have the right credentials, the right experience, and the right temperament to actually perform the work, once hired.
17
Clinton may have won this battle, maybe. But Trump has won the war. Everyone was expecting to see the Trump of the Republican Primary Debates; all fire and brimstone. Insulting everyone and looking like a lunatic.
But instead, Trump came across as totally Presidential. He was calm, he let Clinton rant and rave. And he just took it.
Trump has now set the stage for the next two debates. Now, he will go after her for Benghazi, the emails, the Pay-For-Play Clinton Foundation and all of the rest of it.
But in this first debate, he needed to assure the American People that he is not this "out of control" maniac that the MSM has portrayed.
And he did that.
But instead, Trump came across as totally Presidential. He was calm, he let Clinton rant and rave. And he just took it.
Trump has now set the stage for the next two debates. Now, he will go after her for Benghazi, the emails, the Pay-For-Play Clinton Foundation and all of the rest of it.
But in this first debate, he needed to assure the American People that he is not this "out of control" maniac that the MSM has portrayed.
And he did that.
3
It comes down to a moral choice--between an-in-your-face New Yorker who believes America is building its own debtor's prison and one who left four dead Americans in Libya, extorted money about the world for the Bill&Hillary Pay-to-Play Foundation as Secretary of State, while at the same time was guilty of dangerous and reckless near treasonous behavior severing up data to hackers, knowingly lied to the American people about a bogus video, is a sycophant to Wall Street, particularly Goldman Sacks, deleted thousands of emails in an attempt to obstruct justice, thinks her work on the Iran treaty that allows them to help North Korea improve its rocket engine technology is notable, loves trade treaties that destroy America's middle class, and who took weeks to "cough-up" the truth about her current malady--whatever it might be.
My God, has there ever been a more corrupt former Obama administration insider set free by Comey?
Might as well put your "X" next to Kim Jong-un, looks just as good in Mao-red, too.
My God, has there ever been a more corrupt former Obama administration insider set free by Comey?
Might as well put your "X" next to Kim Jong-un, looks just as good in Mao-red, too.
What a show that was last night. It could very well have been called "Who Wants To Be POTUS!" While Secretary Clinton aced it Mr. Trump could have used a few life lines. In fact at one point he was yelling out "Why doesn't anyone call Sean Hannity." It would be incredibly funny to watch someone like Trump flounder if the stakes were not so high but running for president is serious business. Clinton obviously takes it seriously and showed that she knows what she is doing and Trump can't even remember what he said or saw on FOX News the day before. If anyone that saw the debate is still undecided then we are in trouble.
Some voters want change, not more of Obama. Ironically, it is Obama's CHANGES they don't like: ACA, marriage equality,
equal pay for women, mandatory minimum wage for governments contractors, and the like. Trump is reactionary, not a change agent.
equal pay for women, mandatory minimum wage for governments contractors, and the like. Trump is reactionary, not a change agent.
Mrs. Trump *is* qualified and prepared to be president. In any other year, that's what would matter most. Mrs. Clinton looked presidential, even if Mr. Trump claimed he never said she didn't look presidential. I doubt that Mr. Trump's die-hard fans, the ones who value anger and lies over truth and preparation, will be any less willing to vote for him. He confirms their beliefs that America is not what it once was. But for religious and racial minorities, 2016 is way ahead of the 1960s. We don't have separate water fountains and schools. We don't ban adherents of certain religions from our country clubs. Overall, it's much safer to walk the streets of our cities. We still have work to do, but most of us are much better off than we were 50 years ago.
2
Last night didn't even have to take place because the outcome was apparent 1.5 years ago. HRC was groomed for this when she was just HR, meanwhile DT confirmed what his own supporters has known from the beginning. It's sad when the opposition doesn't have to consider running a smear campaign when all they need to do is re-run the at least 30 interview/clips of their opponent talking/speaking with no knowledge of government affairs and attempting to create hostility between both parties and the public at-large.
It wonders me that Lester Holt should be a registered Republican. What in Heaven's Name would someone of his intelligence and education find admirable in today's Republican Party? Notions of them as "fiscally responsible" went out with the Funky Chicken. Their social policy--the Southern Strategy--appeals to Kluxxers, misogynists, hypocrites, religious troglodytes, and wingnuts ignorant of the basic value of government.
Uh, Lester? ...
I was pretty sure Lester wouldn't be biased in spite of his political leaning and his NBC bosses' business entanglements with Trump. Trump's pathetic attempt to look "manly" by ignoring debate rules and refusing to be moderated showed Lester to be the real man, civil and civilized throughout. Seems to me Lester also succeeded as moderator by letting Trump hang himself with his own rope.
Uh, Lester? ...
I was pretty sure Lester wouldn't be biased in spite of his political leaning and his NBC bosses' business entanglements with Trump. Trump's pathetic attempt to look "manly" by ignoring debate rules and refusing to be moderated showed Lester to be the real man, civil and civilized throughout. Seems to me Lester also succeeded as moderator by letting Trump hang himself with his own rope.
5
The voters want CHANGE--for a change?
Vote for a woman, H. Clinton, for a change that matters.
Vote for a woman, H. Clinton, for a change that matters.
4
Trump should push her on.
The release of her speeches to Goldman Sachs . Yes Trumps income tax returns might be an interesting read. But in those speeches is the policy we are likely to get for the banks. And since the banks really liked what she had to say ( to the tune of 21 million dollars) I have a very strong feeling that those policies will be de regulation just as her husband did when he was President. They have taken a lot of money from the banking industry and it is a debt that the banks feel has to be paid.
The release of her speeches to Goldman Sachs . Yes Trumps income tax returns might be an interesting read. But in those speeches is the policy we are likely to get for the banks. And since the banks really liked what she had to say ( to the tune of 21 million dollars) I have a very strong feeling that those policies will be de regulation just as her husband did when he was President. They have taken a lot of money from the banking industry and it is a debt that the banks feel has to be paid.
3
One point that kept popping into my head last night as i watched Don and Hillary. This is the guy who is The Boss, on his show and of his company. Portraying himself as dominant, decisive, knowledgeable, etc. Most of us have gone to a job interview and many have actually conducted the interview and decided who to hire and who to pass on. Leading me to a question for Don: If someone had walked into Trump tower for a job interview or shown up to be interviewed for a spot on your show (i get it, it ain't real) as woefully unprepared as you were last night, would you offer them a job or would you cut the interview short and move on? We know the answer.
If Trump had had a few more snappy comebacks, he would have been declared the winner. Next time, he will.
If the girdle fits, wear it! Miss Universe contestants sign an agreement covering many aspects of it one being to not gain weight. She broke the agreement. What would you do if you owned the contest/business, let the woman inflate and hurt your business for that year? Good for Trump. Same thing about not paying people and businesses who did work for him. If people, businesses don't do good work, you either don't pay them or negotiate the pay. Good for Trump.
As a retired educator, watching the split screen was like seeing myself in the mirror when one of my students was either being ridiculous, loud, or just plain lying. The "I didn't do it." The classic "I know you are, but what am I?", and the always effective, "But____ was doing it too." Defenses and excuses... The faces that Hillary Clinton made needed no follow up comment. They were the classic faces all moms and teachers make!
21
No change. And given the Romney shellacked Obama in the first debate, I would urge all the columnists and opinion writers to take a deep breath, and stop sounding so excited. The race is tied.
Trump's lack of prep showed, but I doubt his anti-establishment supporters care. And Clinton is a Yale Law grad and career politician, so I think most of the general public assumes she should mop the floor with him.
Trump actually said, "I have a great temperament." In what bizzaro parallel universe could that statement not bring laughter?
That's the whole point Don, your temperament may be OK for a real estate huckster, but it's wholey unfit for President. You don't even know what you don't know.
That's the whole point Don, your temperament may be OK for a real estate huckster, but it's wholey unfit for President. You don't even know what you don't know.
Whiner Trump. The microphone, bad moderator, bad questions. NOT
Lester Holt had good questions focused on policy and he got out of the way and let the candidates talk.
Lester Holt had good questions focused on policy and he got out of the way and let the candidates talk.
The New York Times made up its editorial mind beforehand, so nothing the newspaper writes has any independent credibility. You people made your bed, and now you can lie in it. Media credibility is the big casualty of the 2016 election.
If you're going to say that, offer something different and substantiate it. It's easy to throw around accusations, we've watched Trump do it all year.
3
A boring performance by two mediocre candidates.
Trump and his campaign have NOT mentioned stamina once today. I guess that issue is off the table now....
The answer my friend is blowing in the wind....
The answer my friend is blowing in the wind....
For me, the high point of the debate was when Trump expressed hurt at the campaign ads that said bad things about him or cast him in a bad light. I'm sure that Lyin' Ted, Little Marco, Low Energy Jeb, and Crooked Hillary all had a good time Tweeting each other about that one after the debate. Donald, if you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen.
Can you hear it?
In 2020...
North Korea has nuclear missiles that can strike the US
The US is in danger of default
Terrorism spikes in the US
The Mideast is in turmoil
More kids graduating from college find no work
and who will Hillary blame? Why George W of course
In 2020...
North Korea has nuclear missiles that can strike the US
The US is in danger of default
Terrorism spikes in the US
The Mideast is in turmoil
More kids graduating from college find no work
and who will Hillary blame? Why George W of course
Dear Mr. Trump keep having your rallies where you draw large crowds. The people who attend love you and agree with what you are proposing.
I thought you did great last night and you know those who criticize you will never give you their vote. Don't forget this newspaper endorsed Hillary Climton and the readers were thrilled (but not all).
You still have two more presidential debates to hone your skills and I am sure you will be fine. May I make a suggestion? I would behave a bit like you did when you first were claiming the nomination. I would not do any name calling or be overly aggressive. Just aggressive enough to show voters that you are in command and presidential. I have faith in you Mr. Trump.
I thought you did great last night and you know those who criticize you will never give you their vote. Don't forget this newspaper endorsed Hillary Climton and the readers were thrilled (but not all).
You still have two more presidential debates to hone your skills and I am sure you will be fine. May I make a suggestion? I would behave a bit like you did when you first were claiming the nomination. I would not do any name calling or be overly aggressive. Just aggressive enough to show voters that you are in command and presidential. I have faith in you Mr. Trump.
Faith in a con man?
5
Trump will get his 45% just as HRC will get her 45%.
The question, as it has been for all of recent memory, is how the remaining 10% will split...
The question, as it has been for all of recent memory, is how the remaining 10% will split...
How do you relish victory beating up a 6 year old?
What we saw last night was the one dominating quality he has that really disqualifies him from any position of leadership let alone the presidency... his lack of empathy for anybody but himself.
I can understand the disdain of the NYT reading elites for the crude and often vulgar Donald Trump and his gauche supporters from the hinterland. What I don’t understand is their unbridled enthusiasm for the reincarnated Richard Nixon.
No breakthrough??? She broke through his many rude, disrespectful interruptions and made it clear for all to see that he is unqualified to be President
CLINTON (Presidential debate on 9/27/2016):
"I want us to do more to support people who are struggling to balance family and work. I’ve heard from so many of you about the difficult choices you face and the stresses that you’re under. So let’s have paid family leave, earned sick days. Let’s be sure we have affordable child care and debt-free college.
How are we going to do it? We’re going to do it by having the wealthy pay their fair share and close the corporate loopholes."
Hillary Clinton added $23 million to her personal wealth for speeches she gave to Wall Street banks and other major corporate business interests in 2013, 2014, and 2015. [See Feb. 2016 NYTimes editorial titled “Mrs. Clinton, Show Voters Those Transcripts” making reference to her speeches in 2014 and 2015 for which she was compensated $11 million.]
In the presidential debate with Donald Trump last night, Hillary Clinton failed to mention that she is now among “the wealthy” and that she will not be paying this tax in the next four years because if she is elected President, all of her speeches will be free. Hillary Clinton is personally wealthy now but this new tax on the wealthy will only be on “new” income.
And, I wish she would stop talking about the "wealthy" as if she were not also a member of the elite "one-percenters."
"I want us to do more to support people who are struggling to balance family and work. I’ve heard from so many of you about the difficult choices you face and the stresses that you’re under. So let’s have paid family leave, earned sick days. Let’s be sure we have affordable child care and debt-free college.
How are we going to do it? We’re going to do it by having the wealthy pay their fair share and close the corporate loopholes."
Hillary Clinton added $23 million to her personal wealth for speeches she gave to Wall Street banks and other major corporate business interests in 2013, 2014, and 2015. [See Feb. 2016 NYTimes editorial titled “Mrs. Clinton, Show Voters Those Transcripts” making reference to her speeches in 2014 and 2015 for which she was compensated $11 million.]
In the presidential debate with Donald Trump last night, Hillary Clinton failed to mention that she is now among “the wealthy” and that she will not be paying this tax in the next four years because if she is elected President, all of her speeches will be free. Hillary Clinton is personally wealthy now but this new tax on the wealthy will only be on “new” income.
And, I wish she would stop talking about the "wealthy" as if she were not also a member of the elite "one-percenters."
"We don't pay taxes. Only the little people pay taxes."
Leona Helmsley
Trump doesn't pay taxes.
4
I hope the Trump campaign is paying you for this propagandistic diatribe. I don't understand how you can think the Clinton's are crooked because she and her husband EARNED a lot of money in straightforward and well documented transactions. They made speeches and were paid. You contend that their gratitude to Wall Street financiers is a more constricting bond than the fact that Donald Trump is over his head in debt to foreign bankers to the tune of an estimated 1.3 billion. There is a difference. If the Clinton's act against the interest of the people who paid for their speeches those people will be unhappy but all they can do is complain. If Trump betrays his bankers they will foreclose and he will be revealed as essentially worthless. Perhaps you should push Mr. Trump as a truly worthy mendicant who really needs the job.
5
Why is everyone confusing a culture war with an election?
If the presidential debate really matters to influence the vote, even without the expected breakthrough performance Hillary Clinton, with sheer force of her polished presence and reasoned argument could seize the minds of millions to prefer her to be in the White House as the one who could deliver over Trump, who only knows distrust and destruction.
12
This is the first offering from anyone at the NYT that I’ve read so far that even approximates balance on the debate results – and it’s not surprising. Each candidate was speaking to a base, and each base responded, as the early polls suggest. Roger and the RATHER heavy preponderance of NYT worthies generally sympathize with Mrs. Clinton, so her performance resonated with them. But it left those who don’t support her mostly cold: there was no cross-over effect by EITHER candidate. But despite all, Roger balances with a heavy thumb on the left scale.
What works for Trump isn’t “peevishness”; and his supporters tend to discount Sec. Clinton’s admittedly greater experience gained participating in both domestic and (primarily) international messes of epic proportion – they discount it because they don’t value it. Perhaps they should value more highly a demonstrated ability to triangulate an issue to death then make historically wrong decisions; but go figure. Trump made this point starkly: “BAD experience”.
What works for Trump is a perceived ability to think out-of-the-box, approaches that will be antiestablishmentarian when all the pols like Sec. Clinton have done for years is same-ol’-same-ol’, and a desire to win for AMERICA, not for some relativist’s notion that always makes everyone else’s interests equivalently legitimate … to an American PRESIDENT.
NEITHER won the debate, if the objective was cross-over; but BOTH were effective with their bases.
What works for Trump isn’t “peevishness”; and his supporters tend to discount Sec. Clinton’s admittedly greater experience gained participating in both domestic and (primarily) international messes of epic proportion – they discount it because they don’t value it. Perhaps they should value more highly a demonstrated ability to triangulate an issue to death then make historically wrong decisions; but go figure. Trump made this point starkly: “BAD experience”.
What works for Trump is a perceived ability to think out-of-the-box, approaches that will be antiestablishmentarian when all the pols like Sec. Clinton have done for years is same-ol’-same-ol’, and a desire to win for AMERICA, not for some relativist’s notion that always makes everyone else’s interests equivalently legitimate … to an American PRESIDENT.
NEITHER won the debate, if the objective was cross-over; but BOTH were effective with their bases.
12
It really doesn't take much for Trump to be effective with his base, does it? They want an unhinged boor and he sees no reason to disappoint them, the hand-wringing of his few well-wishers notwithstanding. He 'thinks out of the box'? Honestly? And when during the debate did you see even a hint of Trump's thought process, Richard?
1
Hillary seemed to want to shore up the millennials thinking 3rd parties and the RINOs teed off at Trump for not brown-nosing insiders.
Trump simply needed to show that he will try real things to try to create jobs and restore peace.
Are a third of the votes really convinced that Hillary is seriously ill?
After all the noise and fury aimed at that TODAY host, Holt definitely interrupted Trump several times as often as he did Hillary. Mission accomplished?
Trump simply needed to show that he will try real things to try to create jobs and restore peace.
Are a third of the votes really convinced that Hillary is seriously ill?
After all the noise and fury aimed at that TODAY host, Holt definitely interrupted Trump several times as often as he did Hillary. Mission accomplished?
1
typical of a christie supporter
We watched the debate in shocked silence. We knew it would be a robust exchange of world views but we did not appreciate or understand the extent to which DT's reality was constructed so narrowly around his own self belief - would he take advice from others or act unilaterally as POTUS?
While,as an outsider, these decisions are for the American people to make our vested interest is in maintaining and enhancing global stability, security and continued, environmentally sustainable, world economic growth. Will DT, as POTUS, make America great again or from a geopolitical point of view simply irrelevant?
While,as an outsider, these decisions are for the American people to make our vested interest is in maintaining and enhancing global stability, security and continued, environmentally sustainable, world economic growth. Will DT, as POTUS, make America great again or from a geopolitical point of view simply irrelevant?
I keep hearing about Hillary Clinton's lack of charisma, about how "we" want to see what she is "really" like, her personality, etc. Haven't we learned yet that someone we would like to have a beer with is not someone who we want running the country? Hillary Clinton has a dedicated, concentrated intelligence much to be wished for in running things. Who gives a rip if she's not forthcoming about her personal life? Why is that ever important to any woman's job? This is not a beauty contest, people! I want someone worthy of respect, not concerned with appearances.
she needs to have a breakthrough performance????
Donald Trump is a clear and present danger to our Republic. Hillary Clinton effectively made this clear to the estimated 100+ million people who tuned in to watch last night's debate. He exhibited all the petulance, truculence and pouting that one would expect of an eight-year-old. US satellite surveillance has disclosed that Trump's buddy Vladimir Putin has amassed somewhere around 500 tanks in northwest Russia along the borders with NATO members Latvia and Estonia, formerly captive nations forcibly inducted into the former Soviet Union by Josef Stalin after the end of World War II, and which Putin covets for reincorporation into the resurgent Russian empire. Putin has done this in response to Trump's reprehensible comments about the viability and relevance of NATO, along with his veiled threat that the US might not assist any NATO members under attack if they hadn't ponied up their monetary assessments. Even without being POTUS, Donald Trump has done incredible damage to the United States and encouraged adventurism by foreign dictators and despots.
I just watched CBC reporting on the number/nature of Google searches in 50 states during the debate....Hillary's website number one by a very large margin. Is it unreasonable to conclude that those searches weren't all being made by existing Hillary supporters? I'd say she has aroused the interest of fence-sitters, and dare I hope, Trump's supporters.
@Rw
Agree. One can only hope....But then, it was also reported by the NYT/PBS coverage that Trump's website was down (Hmm...)
Agree. One can only hope....But then, it was also reported by the NYT/PBS coverage that Trump's website was down (Hmm...)
1
"But hesitant voters are looking for a glimpse of the unexpected and unscripted in her, a human connection rather than a political one."
What the heck does that mean? The statement is logically meaningless, pure pundit-speak.
Should she have stood on her head and made faces just to be "unexpected and unscripted"? And since when are "human" and "political" connections mutually exclusive?
It is these vague, subjective assertions that drive us all crazy about political pundits.
What the heck does that mean? The statement is logically meaningless, pure pundit-speak.
Should she have stood on her head and made faces just to be "unexpected and unscripted"? And since when are "human" and "political" connections mutually exclusive?
It is these vague, subjective assertions that drive us all crazy about political pundits.
I agree. Akin to the famous "who would you rather have a beer with?" In addition, Hillary has been saddled with this "image" thing since she became First Lady and many inches of news column were dedicated to whether or not she should wear that hair band. It's only gone down hill from there, '08 was a bellweather: she never laughs, her laugh is shrill, she doesn't "feel", her tears are an act, etc, etc. Now the voters who can't stand Trump won't vote for her because she's "too main-stream, too establishment". The Millenials especially. I get it, I was a McGovern supporter, but this is IMPORTANT, and the knee-jerk Clinton hating has the potential to bring this country to a bad place. And to those of you who insist that she is "corrupt" - some evidence, please. Can we all, at least this one time, just grow up and do what's right for the country and our fellow-citizens instead of satisfying our inner child?
4
After watching this untidy slug-fest I could only think that after all of the hundreds of millions of dollars and man hours spent convince the undecided voters , the candidates' words and plans will have meant nothing on election day . The memory that will stick is that of Trump's facial contortions as he listened to Hillary unmask him .
I can't wait to stay at a Trump hotel and welch on my bill because I wasn't satisfied with the services. Or the firmness of the pillows.
But billionaire Donald Trump stiffs workers and vendors as a matter of course. He can afford to drag out court proceeding till the little guys gives up.
2
Oh Roger, ye of the many words, are one of the few to pull out "bore" as the perfect descriptor of the prospective Oaf in Chief.
What is it about America that conflates net worth and/or celebrity with level of interest?
Trump's supposed billions raise the Mouth That Bored above the station of barroom goof all the way to the gates of the White House! That's not politics; that's desperate.
Even if I was drunk, listening to incoherence of Trump's kind would make me turn to contemplating the utilitarianism of a urinal's sceptic puck as a relieving distraction.
An infernal intolerable thoroughly annoying BORE. If he - as he claims - doesn't drink, he should. He might get interesting.
What is it about America that conflates net worth and/or celebrity with level of interest?
Trump's supposed billions raise the Mouth That Bored above the station of barroom goof all the way to the gates of the White House! That's not politics; that's desperate.
Even if I was drunk, listening to incoherence of Trump's kind would make me turn to contemplating the utilitarianism of a urinal's sceptic puck as a relieving distraction.
An infernal intolerable thoroughly annoying BORE. If he - as he claims - doesn't drink, he should. He might get interesting.
I’ve tried to avoid watching Trump, reading him is bad enough, but I watched him last night and he is a very distinct personality type: The loud-mouth know- it- all who has made money. There is no thought, no empathy, no insight there. I do not believe there will be more debates, he has surely realized by now that he lost big last night and is likely to lose even bigger.
Trump boasts about understanding money. He wants to give the wealthy a huge tax break and let "the little people" pick up the tab. He beat on Hillary for the Fed keeping down interest rates. When interest rates rise, those in the middle-class are going to buckle under their mortgage payments. He has no empathy for those who are not filthy rich. Yet he wants to appeal to the working class folks in Michigan and Ohio. Good luck!
@Brock
This too, is one of the things I find most difficult to understand.
Donald Trump has billions -- and clearly has no interest in helping "the little people".
It's all part of his con game....and yet they're stumbling all over themselves to vote for him.
The mind boggles.
This too, is one of the things I find most difficult to understand.
Donald Trump has billions -- and clearly has no interest in helping "the little people".
It's all part of his con game....and yet they're stumbling all over themselves to vote for him.
The mind boggles.
6
Trump might have mismanaged a few companies. But how in the world can the Clintons, or anyone who has been in government for the last 25 years, critisize Trump for not knowing anything about the economy or how to run it, when they have instituted policies that has moved the manufacturing industry offshore even giving the companies tax incentives to do it, has run up 21 trillions in debt, has let the infrastructure run to ruin and in fact it is in a dangerous state and trade deficits to the horizon. How can the Clintons claim any expertise at all in economic matters when they were the prime movers in free trade agreements that has driven the middle class to extinction and allowed poverty and homelessness to soar. Under successive Democratic and Republican administrations, ( Yes the Clintons were an important part of those incompetant administrations) poverty, homelessness, unemployment, starvation wages have racked the land. Is America a poorer, meaner place as a result of the policies that the American people have had to endure over the past 25 years, when the Clintons and the other experts she likes to quote, were so influential in government. Certainly. Who knows, Trump might just be a disaster, What we do know is that Clinton is Wall Street´s darling, and she is a super War Hawk. If she maintains the status quo, the economy will be even worse after her first term. What scares me is that she may well start a war to end the human race with Russia and China.
1
Sorry, Roger, but as a male my impression is that you are still judging Clinton by the double standard: for females to pass the threshold of having a "human connection" (your words), a lady must jump a lot higher than a man.
For God's sake, Roger, Clinton hurdled over the threshold of the "human connection" merely by not stooping to the level of Trump, who among other things, told us that the one thing black communities need is more "law and order." Not more justice and opportunity mind you, but more law and order.
And the other thing is Trump's doubling down on his misogyny, and I don't even need to cite the examples, but hitting Clinton on her "stamina" (she is a woman after all), when by the final innings, it was Trump who was huffing and puffing, out of breath, out of strength, and out of ideas.
Stamina indeed.
For God's sake, Roger, Clinton hurdled over the threshold of the "human connection" merely by not stooping to the level of Trump, who among other things, told us that the one thing black communities need is more "law and order." Not more justice and opportunity mind you, but more law and order.
And the other thing is Trump's doubling down on his misogyny, and I don't even need to cite the examples, but hitting Clinton on her "stamina" (she is a woman after all), when by the final innings, it was Trump who was huffing and puffing, out of breath, out of strength, and out of ideas.
Stamina indeed.
I watched the debate, and listened to the postgame commentary on PBS, NPR and in the NYT (guess that shows where I'm coming from). I am astounded by the need for these media outlets to clarify Trump's positions, since he is clearly incapable of doing it on his own. By "helping" their audience to understand what it is Trump is actually saying, they end up refining and repeating his nonsense over and over again -- thereby ignoring Clinton's points, which were well presented the first time around. If the media would allow the messaging to be done by the candidates and the candidates only, this race would not be as tight as it is.
Twitter snap polls gave Trump the victory. This may be what is called "failing up" and it applies almost exclusively to white men. If a woman showed up with Trump's horrible hair and kept snorting the way he did during the debate (was that a sinus condition or cocaine?), no one would be discussing anything else.
TWITTER SNAP POLLS????....you're joking, right?
What do you expect??-- with all the tweets that Trump puts out, he's probably single-handedly keeping them in business!!
What do you expect??-- with all the tweets that Trump puts out, he's probably single-handedly keeping them in business!!
3
Why is it bad that she's a policy wonk? If she were a man would this be an issue? What does it even mean? She's too smart? Can a person be too smart for the highest office in the nation and, arguably, the most powerful position in the world?
Stef, what policies did Clinton outline in the debate? She did mention increasing the minimum wage; but other than that, it was generalities.
1
What I saw from Trump last night was an inability to make a coherent argument or to command facts. I think that he is not capable of doing so. This means that she will be able to run circles around him in the next debate, and the one afte
It irritates me that Clinton is called a policy wonk, as she was by the author of this article, any time she tries to describe in more detail her plan or policy for a specific issue. This is the exact problem with Trump's campaign--he has no policies and can't articulate anything past sound bites like "Ban All Muslims!" and "Build a Wall". So let's not denigrate a candidate who is just trying to do something woefully lacking in her opponent, which is to give some specifics to the American people.
I been thinking about all the street fights involving female versus male opponents --- if the debate was a real fight Hillory would've been charged with assult, at times Trump looking worn, signs of disorientation seeming like he didn't know the event was live --- starting with facial contortions, devoring water, looking for some words to throwback but nothing came out but tired soundbites. Yes, his supporters might not admit it but they ain't going to continue hoping this wimpy, cry baby is the big man he claims --- Hillory beat him so bad after the debate he looked like he was Don King's twin brother.
The conservatives will vote for the Republican candidate, even if he is completely bunkers. They hate Hillary Clinton so much, they rather have a total lunatic in the White House.
That TPP "gold standard" quote is true, but what does it mean in the context of how Clinton actually thinks about both the treaty and trade?
If we are honest, we will all admit that international trade is complicated. There are benefits and there are costs. For some people, the costs are much greater than the benefits. They have reason to be suspicious of international trade. Recently, the rise of Trump has made some people actually notice that maybe the idea that free trade is an absolute win might be flawed.
Arguing about whether Clinton said TPP would be the "gold standard" tends to minimize the context in which she was speaking. Maybe she should have avoided saying anything, but it clearly would have been inappropriate for a member of the cabinet to criticize the president during international negotiations.
I suspect that Clinton still thinks free trade is worth the costs. But I also think that she is aware that people who suffer losses from globalization need help with their lives and their communities. You are not likely to get that kind of discussion in the environment of last night's debate.
Conservative pundits keep saying he is the candidate of change and this is his issue. They thought he "won" that part of the debate. They thought this despite the fact that he offered no meaningful proposals or even a strategy to change the trajectory of globalization.
It's an issue that merits more measured discussion.
If we are honest, we will all admit that international trade is complicated. There are benefits and there are costs. For some people, the costs are much greater than the benefits. They have reason to be suspicious of international trade. Recently, the rise of Trump has made some people actually notice that maybe the idea that free trade is an absolute win might be flawed.
Arguing about whether Clinton said TPP would be the "gold standard" tends to minimize the context in which she was speaking. Maybe she should have avoided saying anything, but it clearly would have been inappropriate for a member of the cabinet to criticize the president during international negotiations.
I suspect that Clinton still thinks free trade is worth the costs. But I also think that she is aware that people who suffer losses from globalization need help with their lives and their communities. You are not likely to get that kind of discussion in the environment of last night's debate.
Conservative pundits keep saying he is the candidate of change and this is his issue. They thought he "won" that part of the debate. They thought this despite the fact that he offered no meaningful proposals or even a strategy to change the trajectory of globalization.
It's an issue that merits more measured discussion.
11
I wish some independent agent would find a way to release Trump's tax returns, with or without his consent. Trump's base keeps going on about *Hillary's* lack of transparency, and meanwhile, Trump refuses to release his tax returns. He all but admitted last night that he doesn't pay any federal taxes, and that that makes him "smart." Since when did tax fraud become a Republican value? This man is a criminal, and the country deserves to see what he's hiding.
Yes. And while they're at it, they should look a little further into the Trump Organization as well.
4
I'm almost certain that Clinton's speeches to Wall St will be part of a "dump" of data, probably including the 33,000 emails--Assange has practically promised it. Then we'll see more of the contempt she has more the American people the Clintons' have so well fleeced.
3
Regardless of her flaws, I want an adult in the situation room, and we have only one of those running for President. As for Trump's whining during the debate and after, we should remember that Lester Holt is a registered Republican and hardly has a pro-Hillary bias. Trump was simply awful, and could not be saved from himself even by the benevolent even-handedness of the moderator. Last night left me terrified about those millennials who think the thrid party candidates offer real protest opportunities. What they guarantee is a Trump victory if they go for the third party candidates. Where's Bernie when we really need him?
Victory without breakthrough? I respectfully disagree. In fact, in a sane world, Hillary could have tap danced around the podium during her opponent's melt- down whopper fest and still won. Attentive millennials are smart, they can see the difference between a Presidential posture and incoherence.
Trump showed himself for what he is - a real estate crook. He reminded the viewer of a shyster landlord gypping a tenant out of their security deposit or refusing to turn on the heat. His reactions during the debate and after demonstrated why corporate types used to being dictators of their little realms don't belong in politics - they don't understand or like the democratic process or the give and of behind even limited intellectual discourse.
I live in a fairly affluent, well-educated area and frankly I'm astounded (and equally mortified) as to the level of support for Trump. I'll be 60 years old next week, have voted Democratic my entire life except for one time (voted for Romney for Governor in 2002 over Shannon O'Brien), yet have talked to intelligent, thoughtful people who so despise Hillary Clinton that they are willing to vote for the despicable Trump. I had just turned 12 years old when Nixon was first elected and vividly recall my parents lamenting the fact that Nixon was a paranoid, dark figure who would disgrace the presidency. We know how that turned out...Trump makes Nixon seem Rooseveltian (pick either Teddy or FDR.)
[I] "have talked to intelligent, thoughtful people who so despise Hillary Clinton that they are willing to vote for the despicable Trump."
That's it, in a nutshell. The key word here is "despise" HRC - not her policies, not her intelligence nor her experience but HER. And they will willingly give their precious vote to Donald Trump (at this point any and all adjectives are redundant) rather than vote for a capable, dedicated candidate because of some emotional response that has been flogged in ALL the media since the 90's. These do not sound like either "intelligent" or "thoughtful" people, and I suspect if you ask them for facts to back up their reasons for this extreme negative reaction to HRC they will blather a lot of vageries jsut like their boy Donald. Sad times for the USA
That's it, in a nutshell. The key word here is "despise" HRC - not her policies, not her intelligence nor her experience but HER. And they will willingly give their precious vote to Donald Trump (at this point any and all adjectives are redundant) rather than vote for a capable, dedicated candidate because of some emotional response that has been flogged in ALL the media since the 90's. These do not sound like either "intelligent" or "thoughtful" people, and I suspect if you ask them for facts to back up their reasons for this extreme negative reaction to HRC they will blather a lot of vageries jsut like their boy Donald. Sad times for the USA
5
I want change, too. Doesn't everyone, who is tired of this country's rollover to the interests of corporate politics and the obscenely wealthy few? But this change needs to begin at the local level, not in the Executive Office. To put a loose cannon in the White House, with all the chaos that is occurring in a nuclear-armed world right now, is way too dangerous.
I repeat: Change needs to begin at the local level. In the meantime, Hillary Clinton is the only sane choice for President of the United States.
I repeat: Change needs to begin at the local level. In the meantime, Hillary Clinton is the only sane choice for President of the United States.
I wish someone would find a way to force Clinton to reveal what she promised Goldman Sach´s in those 250,000 dollar speeches.
Trumps Tax Return might make for entertaining reading,I am sure. But those speeches no doubt made promises that could impoverish millions of Americans and trash the economy once more. Just what did she say to them. Just what did she promise them? We do know that she picked a Wall Street banker for Vice President, that is a pretty strong indication of where she is going with banks. There is a clear and present danger in not knowing just what she had to say to those Masters of The Universe.
Trumps Tax Return might make for entertaining reading,I am sure. But those speeches no doubt made promises that could impoverish millions of Americans and trash the economy once more. Just what did she say to them. Just what did she promise them? We do know that she picked a Wall Street banker for Vice President, that is a pretty strong indication of where she is going with banks. There is a clear and present danger in not knowing just what she had to say to those Masters of The Universe.
2
The Times editorial page including the op ed pieces accurately described the debate. The news reporting continues to be infected by false equivalency. Every criticism of Trump must be followed by a criticism of Clinton. The false equivalency does damage to the political discourse and should stop.
I won't vote for either of these candidates. They are both seriously flawed. But I do notice that the NYTimes has gotten hysterical again. Shrill. Extremely repetitive and loud. Every single pundit on your staff is unable to find a single good point about Trump and unable to find a bad point at Hillary. Isn't that strange?
I remember those wonderful days when reporters reported not judged. It was so much better than this blather. It makes me feel that everything about the Times is badly stilted and censored by the bosses. My favorite example is the lack of coverage for Bernie Sanders. It as ridiculous until he started winning all over the country and They could no longer do that. It was cruel and petty. But they hated Donald Trump but practically pushed him ahead of Hillary at times. It makes me wonder - What happened to the NYTIMES. It has been my paper of choice for 60 years. No more. And Once more I have to add Hillary is a neoliberal and that is extremely dangerous. Since Neoliberalism was adopted by the this country it has gone straight downhill. Except for the very rich. That is not an accident. That is the way the policies are planned. Sorry to tell the truth but it just is. And Bill and Hillary are strong neoliberals. They don't say so of course, No one could get elected with that hanging over them. Most
americans do not know what it is so google it and get informed. Ronald Reagan make it stronger and Bill adopted it. Same with the whole Democratic party.
I remember those wonderful days when reporters reported not judged. It was so much better than this blather. It makes me feel that everything about the Times is badly stilted and censored by the bosses. My favorite example is the lack of coverage for Bernie Sanders. It as ridiculous until he started winning all over the country and They could no longer do that. It was cruel and petty. But they hated Donald Trump but practically pushed him ahead of Hillary at times. It makes me wonder - What happened to the NYTIMES. It has been my paper of choice for 60 years. No more. And Once more I have to add Hillary is a neoliberal and that is extremely dangerous. Since Neoliberalism was adopted by the this country it has gone straight downhill. Except for the very rich. That is not an accident. That is the way the policies are planned. Sorry to tell the truth but it just is. And Bill and Hillary are strong neoliberals. They don't say so of course, No one could get elected with that hanging over them. Most
americans do not know what it is so google it and get informed. Ronald Reagan make it stronger and Bill adopted it. Same with the whole Democratic party.
I truly believe that it is the 24/7 propaganda media blitz against Trump that is killing Clinton. After all if the Establishment and their organs, the MSN are so against him he can´t be so bad can he. I am sure that that is the thinking of Mr. Average America. That is a good reason that Clinton is sinking in the polls and Trump is rising.
The best thing Trump has going for him is that Americans that have been so damaged by the Establishment and their government over the last 25 years, sees that very Establishment backing Clinton and trashing Trump. nothing could be better for Trump, because although they may not like Trump, might even hate him, one thing for certain is that they hate Clinton and the Establishment more and trust them even less. She is the status quo, she is preaching the status quo, and if there is one fact about the times we live in it is that Americans do not want more of the status quo.
The best thing Trump has going for him is that Americans that have been so damaged by the Establishment and their government over the last 25 years, sees that very Establishment backing Clinton and trashing Trump. nothing could be better for Trump, because although they may not like Trump, might even hate him, one thing for certain is that they hate Clinton and the Establishment more and trust them even less. She is the status quo, she is preaching the status quo, and if there is one fact about the times we live in it is that Americans do not want more of the status quo.
Hillary made substantially less mistakes with the facts than Trump and Trump told all the lies and said all the insulting remarks. The recent polls show the smart states love Hillary and the dumb states love Trump. 70+% chance Hillary wins. Trump is a bully and a rich business man who will say anything to swing a deal then do whatever he wants and throw ethics out the window. Trump is dangerous and can not be trusted.
It's really quite amazing to finally hear someone say that Trump is the one not to be trusted...
"Undecided voters?"
"Dubious young voters?"
"People waiting for a human connection?"
Didn't these individuals hear, and better yet see with the volume turned down, the real Trump?
If this 90 minute display of boorishness, ignorance, finger wagging, facial miming, and contempt does not force these individuals to make a choice, then I conclude that what we are really dealing with are people who will never vote.
"Dubious young voters?"
"People waiting for a human connection?"
Didn't these individuals hear, and better yet see with the volume turned down, the real Trump?
If this 90 minute display of boorishness, ignorance, finger wagging, facial miming, and contempt does not force these individuals to make a choice, then I conclude that what we are really dealing with are people who will never vote.
This is the problem with Liberals. There is always something to criticize. If the situation was reversed, Fox News would be celebrating with all-day special on how Trump delivered the coup de grace against Clinton.
Sit back and enjoy this one. At least Clinton did 2 things last night. First, she proved that working hard in America still pays off. Second, she has reversed Trump's momentum in the last 4 weeks.
Sit back and enjoy this one. At least Clinton did 2 things last night. First, she proved that working hard in America still pays off. Second, she has reversed Trump's momentum in the last 4 weeks.
While house organs of The Party
all obediently found the Party representative A Most Excellent Person, polling away from the eastern coast found bars of observers deciding that Trump had won and Hillary taking as few as 24% in after-debate polls.
Why? Because the thing that Bernie can do mildly - and Hillary not at all - is what Trump majors in - how he makes people FEEL. Trump is the hope and change of this campaign and everyone sees definite change in him.
Progressive collectivists take Trump literally, but the 60% of the country ready for change takes Trump seriously.
all obediently found the Party representative A Most Excellent Person, polling away from the eastern coast found bars of observers deciding that Trump had won and Hillary taking as few as 24% in after-debate polls.
Why? Because the thing that Bernie can do mildly - and Hillary not at all - is what Trump majors in - how he makes people FEEL. Trump is the hope and change of this campaign and everyone sees definite change in him.
Progressive collectivists take Trump literally, but the 60% of the country ready for change takes Trump seriously.
The decent people of the US will see the difference and hopefully either change their minds or simply go from undecided to Hillary. Probably few will change their minds but hopefully a lot of people will move from undecided to Hillary.
I think it is clear now that Trump has not changed and will not change who he is therefore it behooves decent americans to lock in their preference now and vote for Clinton in November.
I think it is clear now that Trump has not changed and will not change who he is therefore it behooves decent americans to lock in their preference now and vote for Clinton in November.
The difference between the candidates has always been clear. The core problem is that a large group of voters - call them "independents" or simply congenital knuckleheads - are resistant to facts. Hillary time and again has displayed her command of the issues as well as a presidential temperament that this race ought to be a slam dunk. The fact that so many supporters still line up behind Trump, no matter how ugly or nonsensical his speech, is mind boggling.
And depressing.
And depressing.
Another article suggesting performance matters more than substance: "She was at her worst when she talked about how "independent experts" favor her economic plans over Trump's." Really? She barely had a chance to say much of anything before Trump interrupted her. Had she tried to explain the absurdity of Trump's plans, based on bluster, he would have been more aggressive. And I wouldn't call her change of heart about TPP "flip-flopping;" it was a considered rethinking of the environmental and other costs. I suppose she could have done something "unexpected" by pointing out to Trump that the TPP has nothing to do with trade with China, a fact which surely would have gotten under this ignoramus's skin. Perhaps you would consider that a "breakthrough moment>" But face facts; these debates are not debates when an intelligent person like Hillary Clinton faces off against someone who merely repeats the same few words over and over again, relies on emotion rather than reason.
Foreign Policy experts who are the “Established Mainstream Republicans” and “Established Mainstream Democrats” plus President Obama have now achieved “Peace In Our Time” with Obama’s Iran Treaty.
Really, but only for the next ten years and then they have agreed that Iran can build as many nuclear weapons as it wants in accordance with this agreement.
Iran does not have intercontinental ballistic missile delivery systems, but they can afford to rent a van for a suicide bomber to drive to Times Square in NYC instead.
This treaty is a great diplomatic victory for the Obama Administration.
The USA, France, Germany, England, Etc., did all get together and then all agreed in essence to "Give away everything that Iran wants in return for a ten year pause before Iran is allowed to have nuclear weapons with the capability to destroy the USA and Europe."
Why did President Obama also agree to release Iran from Iran’s treaty obligations under the existing non-nuclear-proliferation treaty that Iran previously signed.
Why did President Obama also agree to lift trade sanctions against Iran that were implemented against Iran for Iran’s capture of the US embassy in Iran and Iran's failure to comply with Iran’s obligations that Iran agreed to comply with as a part of the previous non-nuclear-proliferation agreement that Iran signed.
This will give Iran the economic capability to arm and finance many more Muslim religious fanatics around the world.
Really, but only for the next ten years and then they have agreed that Iran can build as many nuclear weapons as it wants in accordance with this agreement.
Iran does not have intercontinental ballistic missile delivery systems, but they can afford to rent a van for a suicide bomber to drive to Times Square in NYC instead.
This treaty is a great diplomatic victory for the Obama Administration.
The USA, France, Germany, England, Etc., did all get together and then all agreed in essence to "Give away everything that Iran wants in return for a ten year pause before Iran is allowed to have nuclear weapons with the capability to destroy the USA and Europe."
Why did President Obama also agree to release Iran from Iran’s treaty obligations under the existing non-nuclear-proliferation treaty that Iran previously signed.
Why did President Obama also agree to lift trade sanctions against Iran that were implemented against Iran for Iran’s capture of the US embassy in Iran and Iran's failure to comply with Iran’s obligations that Iran agreed to comply with as a part of the previous non-nuclear-proliferation agreement that Iran signed.
This will give Iran the economic capability to arm and finance many more Muslim religious fanatics around the world.
It seems you have already forgotten about the recently released 28 redacted pages from the 9/11 report. Despite all the vitreol and rhetoric from primarily the right-wing hawks, Iran has never really been the problem. It has been America's so-called, loyal, oil supplying "friend", Saudi Arabia.
2
The biggest let down for me of last night's debate was that the most important issue - the basic philosophical difference of the parties - was never discussed. And yet, there has never been such a stark difference between two candidates. Hillary Clinton embodies the mainstream ideals of her party, and may not win because in an election year of change, she seems tied down. Donald Trump, despite the faux protestations of some members of his party, is the poster child for rampant capitalism. When Hillary accused Donald of not paying taxes, he interrupted her and said something like "That's because I'm smart." That's what his election boils down to - voting for a government or voting for none! The news media should get off their ratings obsession and tell the American people, what this election is about.
For voters who want "change," Hillary would do well to point out that the Democratic party platform is the most progressive in decades, incorporating ideas from the Bernie wing, dedicated to a domestic policy that promises millions of jobs for middle-class people who have skills ranging from ditch-digger to high-tech, and changing the ratio of income inequality for the benefit of the middle. Then let's have a Democratic Congress for a change. Give government a chance to work as it should, rather than wallow in a quagmire made by Republicans determined not to give Obama a second term or the country any successes for which Obama might get credit.
There you go--two changes.
What kind of change do you expect from a man with a serious psychological disorder and his only experience that of a businessman with six bankruptcies?
There you go--two changes.
What kind of change do you expect from a man with a serious psychological disorder and his only experience that of a businessman with six bankruptcies?
Trump set the stage right from the outset and afterwards conveying the idea that anyone or any organization connected to these debates was biased and had it in for him. This is what sells to his base in that he plays the victim and under no circumstances can the establishment types be trusted. Truth has little bearing in the matter.
One can only be reminded of just one of several horrific scenarios in which if, by chance, he was elected President, when dealing on the world stage and meeting with other leaders, if anyone disagreed with his position, the barrage of insults forthcoming afterwards would be mind boggling. He would, ultimately be in a verbal war with everyone. America, the isolated. Of course, then gain, maybe Trump wants it that way.
One can only be reminded of just one of several horrific scenarios in which if, by chance, he was elected President, when dealing on the world stage and meeting with other leaders, if anyone disagreed with his position, the barrage of insults forthcoming afterwards would be mind boggling. He would, ultimately be in a verbal war with everyone. America, the isolated. Of course, then gain, maybe Trump wants it that way.
Donald Trump is absurd. The question I have is, why have politicians and truly wealthy, influential people allowed Trump to get so far unless the presidency is less of an office than we're told or, as I believe, this fraud is being promoted by plutocrats and oligarchs who see an easily manipulated path to greater riches. Yes, I think that's the story about Trump; and, as usual, the "little people" are being used to promote the interests of these powerful controllers. The balance of evil never changes.
Worth pointing out that as long as Trumps message is the same, it likely wont make much difference in the campaign. Hillarys better overall performance ---after the first 20 minutes--- would not have been so stark against any other mainstream opponent. But for Trump supporters, none of the other Republicans who ran were credible on the issues he has embraced. You will not dent his support until you take his message away from him.
Millions of his people surely wish for a more perfect messenger, but he is the one who has been consistent on their core issues. And that is what they are voting for, at least until he actually does shoot someone on 5th Avenue.
It would be a mistake for Democrats to write his average supporters off as deplorable. They feel largely ignored and left behind, and telling them their complaints are a symptom of privilege is not a strategy. Statistics describing how well everyone else is doing does not help if you are out of work or underemployed, or will spend 40 years paying off a student loan it only took you 4 years to spend.
If Trump loses, it will be by a narrower margin than it would have been had he run in any election before now. That is not a Republican problem, it is an American one. And if Democrats refuse to be sensitive to that, they may very well lose in the biggest mindblow since Warren Harding.
Millions of his people surely wish for a more perfect messenger, but he is the one who has been consistent on their core issues. And that is what they are voting for, at least until he actually does shoot someone on 5th Avenue.
It would be a mistake for Democrats to write his average supporters off as deplorable. They feel largely ignored and left behind, and telling them their complaints are a symptom of privilege is not a strategy. Statistics describing how well everyone else is doing does not help if you are out of work or underemployed, or will spend 40 years paying off a student loan it only took you 4 years to spend.
If Trump loses, it will be by a narrower margin than it would have been had he run in any election before now. That is not a Republican problem, it is an American one. And if Democrats refuse to be sensitive to that, they may very well lose in the biggest mindblow since Warren Harding.
President Obama has been a good president considering he has endured eight years of obstruction from the right wing. It would be fine with me if he could continue as president for another term or two.
Hillary Clinton performed well last night and will make a good president. I admire President Obama and Secretary Clinton because, while they are not prefect and I don't agree with every decision that they have made or will make, they both have endured the republican onslaught and both are still standing. The Clintons have been under investigation since the early 1990's and down through the years there have been lots of innuendos about White Water, Benghazi, etc. but what has anybody actually found? Nine investigations of Benghazi (some by the republicans in congress) and what have they found?
The right wing has been a tremendous burden and stumbling block for this country for a longtime. It seems obvious that everyone in the country should be treated fairly by the justice system, everyone should be encouraged to vote, everyone should have basic health insurance, but many on the right are opposed to just the idea of fairness and honesty. Anyone who is going to try to do anything in public policy that is sensible or constructive and is fair to everyone is going to face a smear campaign just like President Obama and Secretary Clinton have faced.
We can only hope that enough voters will disregard the republican smear campaign and vote for Hillary Clinton
Hillary Clinton performed well last night and will make a good president. I admire President Obama and Secretary Clinton because, while they are not prefect and I don't agree with every decision that they have made or will make, they both have endured the republican onslaught and both are still standing. The Clintons have been under investigation since the early 1990's and down through the years there have been lots of innuendos about White Water, Benghazi, etc. but what has anybody actually found? Nine investigations of Benghazi (some by the republicans in congress) and what have they found?
The right wing has been a tremendous burden and stumbling block for this country for a longtime. It seems obvious that everyone in the country should be treated fairly by the justice system, everyone should be encouraged to vote, everyone should have basic health insurance, but many on the right are opposed to just the idea of fairness and honesty. Anyone who is going to try to do anything in public policy that is sensible or constructive and is fair to everyone is going to face a smear campaign just like President Obama and Secretary Clinton have faced.
We can only hope that enough voters will disregard the republican smear campaign and vote for Hillary Clinton
The Spinners hold that Trump did great in the first half hour. This is when he said that he would bring high paying jobs back from China. How? By putting high tariffs on goods coming in from China. This makes no economic sense. The companies now using cheap labor in China simply can't afford to pay American workers a high wage, otherwise they wouldn't have moved their operations to China in the first place. Consumers would face much higher prices, which they simply couldn't afford to pay. End result - economic collapse, failure of the repatriated companies, and eventual capitulation to cheap labor abroad. The only way workers can regain a high standard of living is to be educated and trained to produces high value goods and services which can be sold abroad. Trump doesn't have a clue. Hillary does.
This nonsense is on par with Trump's assertion that China invented global warming to hobble U.S. industry. How do you win a debate by spewing complete nonsense?
This nonsense is on par with Trump's assertion that China invented global warming to hobble U.S. industry. How do you win a debate by spewing complete nonsense?
Last night nobody seemed to be willing to talk about the real economic issues and why they are impacting us so much.
I'm writing about the Fed and the banking system and their coziness with Wall Street traders and hedge funds. The result of this coziness has been the accumulation of massive amounts of cash at the top which has not made its way back down to the 60%, where it is desperately needed for the improvement of peoples lives and for the security of all.
This financial coterie has subverted the media and our government and absolutely refuses to allow the passage of any the controls that are needed to allow that cash to sift down to us.
We as a society are left gasping for the fresh air of a truly free people and are instead required to ingest the toxicities of money controlled monopolies in energy, farming, health, education, government, finance, media and a host of others.
I'm writing about the Fed and the banking system and their coziness with Wall Street traders and hedge funds. The result of this coziness has been the accumulation of massive amounts of cash at the top which has not made its way back down to the 60%, where it is desperately needed for the improvement of peoples lives and for the security of all.
This financial coterie has subverted the media and our government and absolutely refuses to allow the passage of any the controls that are needed to allow that cash to sift down to us.
We as a society are left gasping for the fresh air of a truly free people and are instead required to ingest the toxicities of money controlled monopolies in energy, farming, health, education, government, finance, media and a host of others.
This country was founded on genocide and built on slavery. There is a very long history of hatred of the "other" in this country, with each successive wave of immigrants viewing those who follow with distrust and hatred based on fear of differences. And yet it is those very difference that contributes to this great melting pot, forging out of the many, ONE - "E pluribus unum."
This election will reveal who we are as a people. Does the hatred and fear continue to fester causing us to seek a leader who will feed our darkest impulses? Or will we respond to the "better angels of our nature?"
We will get exactly the President we deserve; exactly the President we need. It may not be pleasant but it will be deserved. And perhaps out of it will come some greater good, some wisdom that cannot be learned except through the awful suffering that is the product of all the times I (we) have chosen to hate the stranger in my (our) midst.
This election will reveal who we are as a people. Does the hatred and fear continue to fester causing us to seek a leader who will feed our darkest impulses? Or will we respond to the "better angels of our nature?"
We will get exactly the President we deserve; exactly the President we need. It may not be pleasant but it will be deserved. And perhaps out of it will come some greater good, some wisdom that cannot be learned except through the awful suffering that is the product of all the times I (we) have chosen to hate the stranger in my (our) midst.
What I saw, sort of an overview---
The two candidate represent their Parties and sought to point out what political philosophies separate them, and at the same time draw a favorable comparison vis a vis their opponent.
On the first, the Government does things and the people pay for it through taxes--the Democrats. On the Republican side, the People do things, try to keep their money, and do everything they can to avoid paying taxes.
Mr. Trump tried to cast Ms Clinton as just another political hack, who has been around for a long time, and is responsible for every miserable state of affairs that you can pin on the Government. The only problem with this, she has some real accomplishments in her public service career, and she was both poised and articulate in explaining what she planned to do as President, showing leadership on the issues. Summing it up, "On international issues, we keep our promises; on domestic issues there is lots of room for improvement--what the government can do to make the lives of citizens better--and we will pay for this with taxes."
Ms Clinton tried to cast Mr' Trump as just another rich man, opposed to the public good. He doesn't pay taxes, and he helped her here by stating he doesn't intend to. And in reality, he is not just another political hack, doing the bidding of the ultra-rich. He personally disposed of those people on the Republican side in the primaries; he is merely representing himself as the standard bearer of the wealthy class.
The two candidate represent their Parties and sought to point out what political philosophies separate them, and at the same time draw a favorable comparison vis a vis their opponent.
On the first, the Government does things and the people pay for it through taxes--the Democrats. On the Republican side, the People do things, try to keep their money, and do everything they can to avoid paying taxes.
Mr. Trump tried to cast Ms Clinton as just another political hack, who has been around for a long time, and is responsible for every miserable state of affairs that you can pin on the Government. The only problem with this, she has some real accomplishments in her public service career, and she was both poised and articulate in explaining what she planned to do as President, showing leadership on the issues. Summing it up, "On international issues, we keep our promises; on domestic issues there is lots of room for improvement--what the government can do to make the lives of citizens better--and we will pay for this with taxes."
Ms Clinton tried to cast Mr' Trump as just another rich man, opposed to the public good. He doesn't pay taxes, and he helped her here by stating he doesn't intend to. And in reality, he is not just another political hack, doing the bidding of the ultra-rich. He personally disposed of those people on the Republican side in the primaries; he is merely representing himself as the standard bearer of the wealthy class.
He is representing himself as the spokesperson for everything this country needs to overcome: racism, bigotry misogyny and ignorance. Stand with a racist and you are a racist.
2
The nation is highly polarized and this will not change any time soon. The Republican Party as we once knew it, the party of fiscal conservatism has become the party of right wing extremism, religious fundamentalism and racism. The voter base that has chosen Trump to represent them will not be swayed by his inept debate performance. They have seen it all before and will make all the excuses they need to continue to support the most incompetent, hateful candidate to ever run for President, Commander-in-Chief.
Hillary, no matter how presidential she may be, is a woman and a Democrat. Trump could shoot someone on Fifth Ave as he has stated, or in this case he can drool on his shoes during a debate, and his adoring fans will continue to cheer him on. Logic, reason, and even patriotism are not part of the equation.
Sadly, we see our nation as it truly is. We see nearly half the country ready to vote for a bullying, racist egomaniac, a congenital liar whose is proud of his ignorance. If Trump prevails, the Unjted States will enter the Dark Ages. There will be no return.
Hillary, no matter how presidential she may be, is a woman and a Democrat. Trump could shoot someone on Fifth Ave as he has stated, or in this case he can drool on his shoes during a debate, and his adoring fans will continue to cheer him on. Logic, reason, and even patriotism are not part of the equation.
Sadly, we see our nation as it truly is. We see nearly half the country ready to vote for a bullying, racist egomaniac, a congenital liar whose is proud of his ignorance. If Trump prevails, the Unjted States will enter the Dark Ages. There will be no return.
Of course his lawyers are advising him to not disclose his tax returns. The returns would incriminate him and likely provide grounds for legal action against him, and certainly contain political death blows. His excuse about the audit delay is nonsensical, and I wish Ms. Clinton had jumped on his statement regarding his being under audit for 15 years, but he would release his return when the audit is complete? It is never going to be complete! His supporters don't know about taxes. Tax returns scare them, and they get a charge from his obstinate refusals. After the 'debate', one CNN reporter got it spot on; a vote for Trump is actually a protest vote. That is the only explanation I can understand regarding why any rational responsible person would ever consider voting for Trump. Unfortunately, many individuals are being driven to file a protest vote. Similar thing happened in Minnesota when Jesse Ventura the wrestler was elected governor. At least he got something positive done (The Metropolitan Light Rail). However, one important distinction is that his fingers were nowhere near a nuclear launch code, and his influence was contained within the borders of one state.
It is very much like the Civil War. The population of the North was 18.5 million, whereas the South had 5.5 million free whites. In finance, industrial production, much agriculture and so on, the Union had considerably more depth. The South had its military tradition, and the strength of its ideology. Of course it took awhile to corral and whip into shape all those Northerners, but the South had most of the major disadvantages, including the fact that its ideology was increasingly rejected by the rest of the world.
Trump and his supporters are both the philosophical heirs to the old South, and bear a significant resemblance to its demography. While none of his supporters heard anything at last night's debate that will dissuade them, neither did Hillary's people, and they are flexing their muscles. Corralling them and whipping them into shape (GOTV) will be necessary, but all the same advantages will accrue to them if the mobilize.
Trump and his supporters are both the philosophical heirs to the old South, and bear a significant resemblance to its demography. While none of his supporters heard anything at last night's debate that will dissuade them, neither did Hillary's people, and they are flexing their muscles. Corralling them and whipping them into shape (GOTV) will be necessary, but all the same advantages will accrue to them if the mobilize.
Clinton has not come to appreciate that to be President she must convince the people that regardless of her personal beliefs she respects those with who she is in disagreement and respects their rights. It's a hard image to project and only a few Presidents have done so during their terms in office. The best examples are FDR and Ronald Reagan. Both really infuriated their adversaries over their policies and preferences expressed in their proposals, but they were liked and respected, anyway. Presidents with deep convictions and strong principles and honesty about their attitudes have had rough treatment, Jimmy Carter being the clearest example. Her husband's ability to gain and retain confidence by his great ability to communicate with people enabled him remain a popular President who drove his adversaries nuts, and compelled them to react hysterically to their own detriment. At the end of the debate, Clinton had affirmed the support of her supporters but had not won over a lot of those who had been undecided. She needs to walk back her comments about deplorable voters, no voters are deplorable even if they really are adhering to attitudes that are perpetuating difficulties for others. Marginal issues like gun control are better addressed once she is in office because they are controversial and need to be addressed with considerable care -- they cannot be addressed in sound bytes which require definitive and simple resolutions. She must focus upon being inclusive.
"She needs to walk back her comments about deplorable voters".
Where were you? She already has, and did so almost immediately.
And by the way, she wasn't calling the voters deplorable -- just their ideas concerning racism,sexism, Islamophobia, homophobia, etc.
And guess what?? ... She's right.
Where were you? She already has, and did so almost immediately.
And by the way, she wasn't calling the voters deplorable -- just their ideas concerning racism,sexism, Islamophobia, homophobia, etc.
And guess what?? ... She's right.
4
Yeah, Hillary's win is obvious to everyone with last night's debate. She spoke more authoritatively and truthfully about the issues than the Donald. He reminds us of how people armchair quarterback or coach the losing NFL team the day after around the water cooler. Anybody can do it. That the final winner from the republican's primaries should tell us how unpopular and out of step conservative dogma has become.
The 9/26/2016 Presidential debate between Mr. Trump and Secretary Clinton takes the phrase, "I am with Stupid", unprecedentedly to the highest level. Now I look forward to the next two Presidential debates and the Oct 4 Vice President debate.
During the debate, Trump stayed 100% "on message" relative to his campaign rhetoric, complete with all the proven lies, lack of substance and depth, bullying tactics and over the top promises with nothing to back them up. Why not? He is who he is, and, incredibly, being who he is has gotten him closer to becoming President than anyone (probably including himself) ever imagined. Also, forget the spin doctoring, in an age where a reality television star is the Republican nominee for President, how people judge Trump's and Clinton's performance may come down to how they are parodied during this week-end's "Saturday Night Live" episode.
A former boss/mentor who I greatly admired once told me, "The only time you embarrass yourself is when you get up to do something and you haven't prepared."
The debate shows that if you vote for Trump, you're voting for uncertainty and possibly danger; but if you vote for Clinton, you are voting for things to stay exactly the same as they have been for 20 or 30 years. It is not much of a choice. Even if Trump magically disappeared, the country still would face crises that neither Clinton nor her supporters seem interested in addressing.
20 years, ago, the country was doing quite well. Real median household income increased by 15% from 1993 to 1999. The rich paid more in taxes and there was a budget surplus from 1998-2001. If this is a presage to a Hillary administration, I'll take it.
Trump could have decided at the last minute not to show up at all, and it would have no impact at all on his supporters - at least not the ones I know.
He is their empty vessel into which they pour every fear, irrational or otherwise, every gripe, every complaint they have about everything they see wrong in the country and in the world, every perceived wrong which they feel should be righted. Sadly, there are among them a good number of "deplorables" - racists, birthers, immigrant bashers and Clinton/Obama (both Barack and Michelle) haters. For them, Trump is the true "big tent" Republican for whom they've yearned.
He is their empty vessel into which they pour every fear, irrational or otherwise, every gripe, every complaint they have about everything they see wrong in the country and in the world, every perceived wrong which they feel should be righted. Sadly, there are among them a good number of "deplorables" - racists, birthers, immigrant bashers and Clinton/Obama (both Barack and Michelle) haters. For them, Trump is the true "big tent" Republican for whom they've yearned.
The fact that Trump, after last's night performance, still in close competition is with Hillary Clinton is scary. It shows a country where some 150 million people do not recognize a fake. Very dangerous.
A good chunk of his voters main motivation is total disdain for Hillary Clinton. It is palpable.
We miss the boat when we seek to grade this debate on whether Trump won or lost. To Trump and his supporters, he wins by simply being there.
We should, instead, be grading his those who cheer his inanity, his endless repetition and invention of made up stuff as well as his utter lack of qualifications for the office he seeks. Mr. Trump enjoys being the center of attention and has no qualms whatsoever at displaying his ignorance on the public stage. The bemused look he has when he is confronted with his incontrovertible ineptitude and mendacity is the demeanor of one who has absolute confidence that his supporters also do not care about the truth.
Mr. Trump's image is belied by the facts. Most of Mr. Trump's assertions are also belied by the facts. That these facts mean nothing to his supporters is what needs to be judged, not the paper-thin screen upon which Mr. Trump chooses to portray himself.
We should, instead, be grading his those who cheer his inanity, his endless repetition and invention of made up stuff as well as his utter lack of qualifications for the office he seeks. Mr. Trump enjoys being the center of attention and has no qualms whatsoever at displaying his ignorance on the public stage. The bemused look he has when he is confronted with his incontrovertible ineptitude and mendacity is the demeanor of one who has absolute confidence that his supporters also do not care about the truth.
Mr. Trump's image is belied by the facts. Most of Mr. Trump's assertions are also belied by the facts. That these facts mean nothing to his supporters is what needs to be judged, not the paper-thin screen upon which Mr. Trump chooses to portray himself.
I couldn't bring myself to watch, but I gather that Mrs. Clinton did a fine job of shooting fish in a barrel last night.
It isn't surprising the NYT reports that Clinton won. It is not surprising The Drudge pole has Trump winning by 82%. The real question is did either resonate with their supporters and those in between. Clinton has experience but sounded like someone who had a multitude of mock debates in her preparation and a crib sheet of predetermined answers. Much we heard from her were the same promises we always hear from politicians. But Trump came across as someone who would wield a wide broom getting rid of agreements that benefit others more than our selves. His point about our trade agreement with Mexico is a case in point. How is it that companies not only find cheap labor and new modern factories but also get a big tax break moving to Mexico? They don't have to pay any tax to sell in Mexico and none when they ship their product back here. But if they make it here, they pay a tax to send it to Mexico to sell. To the those who saw their jobs go south of the boarder, it doesn't make sense. Clinton said little or anything about this or our trade deficit. Trumps other point was that she and her party have had years to take care of these problems and haven't. If he legally takes advantage of tax breaks that seem unfair, why haven't they changed the law? They have had years to do it. It certainly isn't their wish to help him. So this wasn't a college debate. It was a chance for either to make those undecided wonder what to think about when they cast their vote.
Countries that tax value-added typically apply that tax to imports too. Mexicans who buy products made in Mexico by US companies pay VAT on them just as if they were made in the US.
The US doesn't tax value added. Most of its trading partners do.
The US doesn't tax value added. Most of its trading partners do.
Clinton clearly won this debate. The fallout for Trump will be that the undecideds will see how completely incompetent he is. Unlike soundbites, his blathering, meandering rants were indecipherable. How do you come back from that? You don't. In past presidential debates where the loser lost on finer points or debating style, at least they made sense and didn't appear to be unhinged. Not so for Trump. He completely lost it for all the world to see.
No breakthrough. So they may still be neck an neck, each side convinced their champion won, each side dug in with their 1st love, few minds changed. Which means Donny still has a shot at the White House. For a sneaky peek behind closed doors at a gleefully rule-braking night there under Donny T, playwright Dick Weber's no-holds-barred romp AW, DONNY! is spot-on unforgettable political satire (like Brecht meets the Marx Bros - check it out on Medium). It may be prescient at the rate we're going.
I'd like to see her start ignoring him entirely. I lose respect for her every time she rises to the bait and gets down into the muck with Trump. Watching a pair of supposed adults take shots at each other does not inspire anything but disgust.
She did some of the "leaving some of his insults on the table. The problem, politically, with ignoring the lies propagated by your competition is if they go unanswered and are repeated often enough, they become, for all intents and purposes, the truth.
Clinton's not a policy wonk. She uses her knowledge of policy to advance her agenda. That's a good thing. She would do better to keep reminding everyone of how certain policies will aid the public good. Lacking that, she can come off as self-congratulatory on how well she knows the "right" policy details and how her opponent doesn't. People of all degrees of intelligence can easily detect the difference between someone who cares about them and someone who cares more to be seen as the smartest person in the room.
If you think Trump cares about you, he thinks you're fool enough to deserve to be ripped-off by him.
Don Trump is the guy in the bar who is drinking next to your group and wedges his way into the conversation. At first it seems okay, even funny. A newcomer to the party. Yeah! But then you realize that you don't know this jerk and he's taken over the whole debate. He wont go away and he won't stop talking. Hints don't work. He's drunk and full of himself. The bar is crowded and there is nowhere to move to for some privacy so eventually you and your crew are forced to leave before a fight breaks out. You look back and he's stumbling out the door to come with you to the next watering hole. You run into the alley and hide hoping he finally goes away. Phew, you lost him...
The next morning over a mimosa you recall the night before laughing with friends when you suddenly see a picture of your obnoxious stalker on the cover of the Post. You think, well maybe he was hit by a cab. But no he's the richest guy in town....and he's looking for friends.
The next morning over a mimosa you recall the night before laughing with friends when you suddenly see a picture of your obnoxious stalker on the cover of the Post. You think, well maybe he was hit by a cab. But no he's the richest guy in town....and he's looking for friends.
Barry Soetoro/Obama was the guy in the next group who comes over and decided that all these conversations were actually sbout him.
One of the hardest things for people, especially Americans, to do is ask themselves, what do the smart and knowledgeable people think about this?
They tilt for Trump and, generally, for the untried, unknown people as much a anyone else.
Thousands who have known me during my long life (73 yrs.) and very successful career (entrepreneur) have told me how smart and knowledgeable I am. I've never thought I was as apparently you think of yourself. I will vote for Trump as will my University of Virginia student son who tells me that MANY students there secretly will vote for Trump.
@l'osservatore
Apparently you haven't been keeping up with the demographic breakdown of Trump voters -- which by and large excludes college-educated people ( both Black and White).
They know better than to vote for that racist demagogue.
Apparently you haven't been keeping up with the demographic breakdown of Trump voters -- which by and large excludes college-educated people ( both Black and White).
They know better than to vote for that racist demagogue.
1
Unfortunately Trump true believers and Hillary haters will remain firmly committed to the Donald, regardless of his behavior, nastiness, bias, bigotry, misogyny and lack of intelligent responses. We are dealing with an under educated public that comprises a GOP leaning party of know-nothings. It is no surprise that the majority of Clinton supporters are college educated or members of the minorities that Trump and his followers deplore. He rails against the educated and coastal elites because they have the sense to disbelieve his lies and radical charges and expose him for the Trumped up trash he spouts.
Apparently you have missed this, so here it is: American universities are, by a factor of 19 to 1, stridently liberal-progressive to the point of treating the non-involved as outsiders.
Of course the people coming out of these political training camps are going to mirror the intense politicization present in their university English, education, journalism, sociology, history, psychology, and foreign language departments.
The subsequent polling of college graduates is thus going to be tilted toward the Left regardless of the logic driving either party's positions.
Of course the people coming out of these political training camps are going to mirror the intense politicization present in their university English, education, journalism, sociology, history, psychology, and foreign language departments.
The subsequent polling of college graduates is thus going to be tilted toward the Left regardless of the logic driving either party's positions.
I am a well educated (UVa) and coastal but do not consider myself "elite" as apparently you do, and I will vote for Trump as will my son now in college (UVa). You and so many who write here are going to get the shock of your lives come election day.
And Hillary supporters and Trump haters wouldnt have cared if she'd called 45% or so of the country deplorable again. At least it werent 47%, like Romney. They would have in fact cheered.
Does it matter? The right question to ask. Even though Trump lost over substance and failed to attack her on the emails and the 180 million dollars fortune that the Clintons amassed since leaving the White House, Trump did not appear as unpresentable as most viewers expected him to. If the debate does not make a dent on the current tight of the campaign, it will be a victory fro Trump.
The Clinton's have much less than that, and isn't getting rich the American dream? Yet Trump inherited his wealth and then has lied and cheated to enrich himself ever since, but that is fine for the Trumpeters.
George W. Bush also posited that his business experience was needed to run the country. I don't know where that came into play during his administrations.
Trump has crowed about not paying income tax, being a good negotiator and insisted he would renegotiate our national debt as well as treaties. Renegotiating our national debt would destroy our credit rating (much like Congress even debating not raising our credit ceiling creates doubt in the markets).
Trump has crowed about not paying income tax, being a good negotiator and insisted he would renegotiate our national debt as well as treaties. Renegotiating our national debt would destroy our credit rating (much like Congress even debating not raising our credit ceiling creates doubt in the markets).
President George W. Bush worked quite well with the opposition in Congress and the leaders of foreign countries quite well. His business skills served us well in those days.
Interestingly, neither Bush President ever had to bow to his waist or kneel to tyrants to get good things done while in the White House.
Interestingly, neither Bush President ever had to bow to his waist or kneel to tyrants to get good things done while in the White House.
Want change? Get the republican operatives of BIG democracy-destroying money masters who, like The Con Don think it's good business to evade taxes any way they can, OUT of every elected office in the land. It is time for socially conscious democrats and independents to get America back on the right track of social and financial equity for all.
The money masters Niglea ADORES are the Goldman-Sachs and other banksters who give Trump less than $20 thousand while giving Hillary nearly $50 MILLION.
“Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance. No one in this world, so far as I know—and I have researched the records for years, and employed agents to help me—has ever lost money by underestimating the intelligence of the great masses of the plain people. Nor has anyone ever lost public office thereby.”
― H.L. Mencken, Notes on Democracy
― H.L. Mencken, Notes on Democracy
Although Trump was making points early on, Clinton basically let Trump hang himself. But, she but didn’t follow up as much as she could have. A few highlights come to mind.
On the discrimination lawsuit: “We settled the suit with zero — with no admission of guilt. It was very easy to do.”
Release of tax records: “Look, I’ve been under audit almost for 15 years. I know a lot of wealthy people that have never been audited. I said, ‘do you get audited?’ I get audited almost every year.”
Hacking: “I don’t think anybody knows it was Russia that broke into the DNC. She’s saying Russia, Russia, Russia, but I don’t — maybe it was. I mean, it could be Russia, but it could also be China.”
Iraq war: “I said it to you once, had we taken the oil — and we should have taken the oil…”
So, Donald is a terrible business owner and needs a better accountant. He defended the Russians. He advocated for an interventionist and an imperialist presence in a country that didn’t want our help. He did not look or act very presidential at all.
I can’t wait for the ads.
On the discrimination lawsuit: “We settled the suit with zero — with no admission of guilt. It was very easy to do.”
Release of tax records: “Look, I’ve been under audit almost for 15 years. I know a lot of wealthy people that have never been audited. I said, ‘do you get audited?’ I get audited almost every year.”
Hacking: “I don’t think anybody knows it was Russia that broke into the DNC. She’s saying Russia, Russia, Russia, but I don’t — maybe it was. I mean, it could be Russia, but it could also be China.”
Iraq war: “I said it to you once, had we taken the oil — and we should have taken the oil…”
So, Donald is a terrible business owner and needs a better accountant. He defended the Russians. He advocated for an interventionist and an imperialist presence in a country that didn’t want our help. He did not look or act very presidential at all.
I can’t wait for the ads.
I know why people like Donald Trump. They think because he is so crazy and doesn’t live by the “rules,” he will get things done. They think that being a bully will help him in Washington. Unfortunately politics doesn’t work that way unless you have the power of a dictator. Obama, on the other hand, thought he could convince people “to do the right thing.” Wrong! In politics you have to make alliances, give people what they want in exchange for what you need. You have to put your differences aside, leave your anger behind and give up on revenge fantasies. You have to compromise. Hillary has shown she can do that and this is one of the reasons she makes republicans nervous because they fear she may be really good at governing.
A convincing performance of competent governance by Hillary would pose an existential crisis to a political party that campaigns to prove that government is inherently incompetent.
Just how do you and others who write here think Clinton will get things done without Congress? Please explain.
Who needs a "breakthrough" when one is up against the likes of Donald Trump??? One only needs to sit back and keep feeding him rope, the rest he'll do himself -- and he did, by becoming entangled in his own words, thoughts, and innuendo.
A Bravura performance! -- Trump merely undid himself by trying to "look Presidential".
For those wishing for a WWF-style knock-down-drag-out, the bar was too high. And while Mr. Trump could get under it. He never once got over it.
A Bravura performance! -- Trump merely undid himself by trying to "look Presidential".
For those wishing for a WWF-style knock-down-drag-out, the bar was too high. And while Mr. Trump could get under it. He never once got over it.
Prima facie evidence!
Smirk, raised eye brows, sniffing, rudeness, sighing.
It's a mirror image of the Benito Mussolini '30s fascist ascendancy in Italy.
History has a quaint way of pinpointing coming attractions of what can happen when potential leaders go off the deep end of civility and political responsibility.
The Trump Way will be the highway to oblivion.
Believe what you see, not see what you believe.
Smirk, raised eye brows, sniffing, rudeness, sighing.
It's a mirror image of the Benito Mussolini '30s fascist ascendancy in Italy.
History has a quaint way of pinpointing coming attractions of what can happen when potential leaders go off the deep end of civility and political responsibility.
The Trump Way will be the highway to oblivion.
Believe what you see, not see what you believe.
I wish that you and others would stop using this "policy wonk" sound bite as an argument against HRC. It strongly suggests - no, comes right out and says - that proposing specific solutions to specific problems, in detail, is a negative.
How do you come to that conclusion? Policy is what government is all about, especially at the executive level! Laws reflect policy. Diplomacy reflects policy. Without policies as foundational principles, government would be nothing more than a day to day reaction to events. A kaleidoscope.
No more "policy wonk", please. The alternative is broad generalizations with no underlying substance. Is that what you prefer? Of course not!
How do you come to that conclusion? Policy is what government is all about, especially at the executive level! Laws reflect policy. Diplomacy reflects policy. Without policies as foundational principles, government would be nothing more than a day to day reaction to events. A kaleidoscope.
No more "policy wonk", please. The alternative is broad generalizations with no underlying substance. Is that what you prefer? Of course not!
Plenty of policy wonks out there whose names you have never heard of. Being a policy wonk is great but if you can't get elected, it's like being an Admiral in the Swiss Navy.
I think the tide turned on Hillary's vastly superior knowledge(wonkishness) that will ultimately win the election. Last night, she was spot on and while few minds were dramatically changed now the undecideds will move into her column. The more people think about the debate the more comfortable they will be in supporting her. It's a time release thing.
The effect of public policy on public mental health is a taboo topic in the US.
Wow. Roger clearly hates Clinton almost as much as he hates Israel. That was a thorough destruction by HRC. Trump looked like an addict in need of a methadone shot and Clinton had reasoned, steely responses to all of it.
There are any number of reasons why Trump might actually win this election. If I had to choose only one variable, it would be Hillary's profound decline in popularity over the last number of years.
It's impossible for any candidate to run for office indefinitely and not suffer poll slippage as a result of over exposure, too much information, and voter fatigue.
If Trump can get through 2 more debates without imploding, he may squeak through the election because of dislike of Hillary and nothing more. The more Americans get to know their candidates, the more they suffer from too much reality and not enough fantasy!
It's impossible for any candidate to run for office indefinitely and not suffer poll slippage as a result of over exposure, too much information, and voter fatigue.
If Trump can get through 2 more debates without imploding, he may squeak through the election because of dislike of Hillary and nothing more. The more Americans get to know their candidates, the more they suffer from too much reality and not enough fantasy!
I don't totally disagree but it has less to do about Hillary as an individual and more to do with the fact that she represents a broken system. The status quo. Trump is something new and different. A non-politician by design.
"Hillary's profound decline in popularity over the last number of years."
You know, if people hear, or repeat the same thing day-in-day-out, after awhile, it becomes rote.
You know, if people hear, or repeat the same thing day-in-day-out, after awhile, it becomes rote.
N Smith,
it's the email scandal and the needless deaths in Libya and Iran. Due to Hillary's stonewalling, this information is STILL emerging.
Last Friday's disclosures were devastating but are still being picked apart by curious reporters.
it's the email scandal and the needless deaths in Libya and Iran. Due to Hillary's stonewalling, this information is STILL emerging.
Last Friday's disclosures were devastating but are still being picked apart by curious reporters.
Donald Trump was perhaps-presidential for about 10 minutes, and then reverted to form: bullying, ignorant, self-aggrandizing, completely ill prepared. He said the same few talking points over and over again; one wanted Christie there to take him up short, as he did to Rubio. In any ordinary election Trump's performance would have been the end of the campaign.
The question is why do nearly 50% of the American electorate support this man? It cannot just be "he's the Republican nominee;" he's such a terrible nominee that many life-long senior Republicans are publicly refusing to vote for him; some even supporting HRC.
The reason for all these people is that Trump's faults aren't a bug, they are a feature. The crudeness, the immorality, the lack of thought or preparation (or even intellect), the xenophobia and racism, the sexism, the bullying -- that's all good if you are a Trump supporter!
And that frightens me very badly, that so many people in the US see these ugly and disfunctional traits as what they want.
The question is why do nearly 50% of the American electorate support this man? It cannot just be "he's the Republican nominee;" he's such a terrible nominee that many life-long senior Republicans are publicly refusing to vote for him; some even supporting HRC.
The reason for all these people is that Trump's faults aren't a bug, they are a feature. The crudeness, the immorality, the lack of thought or preparation (or even intellect), the xenophobia and racism, the sexism, the bullying -- that's all good if you are a Trump supporter!
And that frightens me very badly, that so many people in the US see these ugly and disfunctional traits as what they want.
Mrs. Clinton did a great job yesterday with grace and authority over the topics, whereas, Mr. Trump, once again tried his boring entertainer style which was quite revolting. However, his style and his repetitive lying even with strong push back from both Lester Holt and Mrs Clinton may make undecided feel that he is standing up to the so called establishment and that is 'Change'. A segment of the American population does not care what Mr. Trump knows or has experience in. They only care that he can talk louder and shout down everyone else all the time. Hope on election day democracy functions correctly by picking Mrs. Clinton as the President of the United States.
Democracy functions correctly when the candidate with the most electoral votes wins.
Eint,
Not at all. The smaller states are still important and so the Electoral College elected 4 men with fewer actual votes, functioning exactly as planned in the eighteenth century.
The time Congress decided the President was when the outdated Reconstruction period was finally brought to an end.
Not at all. The smaller states are still important and so the Electoral College elected 4 men with fewer actual votes, functioning exactly as planned in the eighteenth century.
The time Congress decided the President was when the outdated Reconstruction period was finally brought to an end.
Two key quotes that summarize much of the general election so far:
From Clinton: "Well, just listen to what you heard." Not much more needs to be said about Trump than that. If someone were to go back throughout Trump's professional and political career and listen to WHAT HE ACTUALLY SAYS, he reveals himself as unfit to govern (even in a government that is often quite dysfunctional itself). The only way to make him seen fit is for his surrogates to try to reinterpret his words for the human population. Taken at face value, the transcripts of his debates and speeches read like a lunatic manifesto. The only people crazier than lunatics are the people who adore them.
From Trump: "So when you tried to act holier than thou, it really doesn’t work. It really doesn’t." Clinton's jabs at Trump regarding his temperament, technical deficiencies, general ignorance, dubious business records and judgment all stick MUCH easier than when she wades into an moral/ethical exchange. As we often say now, the Presidency is not graded on a curve. Clinton may be more ethical than Trump, but is that really an accomplishment? Clinton, can try to shrug off her choices as "mistakes," but it's just not plausible (as her numbers show). FORTUNATELY, she can get by on intelligence and experience. Of course she COULD actually acknowledge moral wrongdoing and remorse (as opposed to the ambiguous "regrets"), but that's just not on the table this year.
Decision unchanged: Clinton*
*ran unopposed
From Clinton: "Well, just listen to what you heard." Not much more needs to be said about Trump than that. If someone were to go back throughout Trump's professional and political career and listen to WHAT HE ACTUALLY SAYS, he reveals himself as unfit to govern (even in a government that is often quite dysfunctional itself). The only way to make him seen fit is for his surrogates to try to reinterpret his words for the human population. Taken at face value, the transcripts of his debates and speeches read like a lunatic manifesto. The only people crazier than lunatics are the people who adore them.
From Trump: "So when you tried to act holier than thou, it really doesn’t work. It really doesn’t." Clinton's jabs at Trump regarding his temperament, technical deficiencies, general ignorance, dubious business records and judgment all stick MUCH easier than when she wades into an moral/ethical exchange. As we often say now, the Presidency is not graded on a curve. Clinton may be more ethical than Trump, but is that really an accomplishment? Clinton, can try to shrug off her choices as "mistakes," but it's just not plausible (as her numbers show). FORTUNATELY, she can get by on intelligence and experience. Of course she COULD actually acknowledge moral wrongdoing and remorse (as opposed to the ambiguous "regrets"), but that's just not on the table this year.
Decision unchanged: Clinton*
*ran unopposed
As European, I'm still puzzled at the fact, that a completely unqualified braggadocio, who has nothing to offer but piffle and is a completely untrustworthy character is running for president in your country. He is like the coming Kim Jung Un of the USA, and you are still discussing nuances of his debate performance. Like, if Trump came across "presidential" enough or not. You seem to be blind to fact, that your country is on the brink of an era, which my country had been in 1933. Then too, a totally unqualified demagogue was elected into office and for the next 12 years led the whole world into the hell of WW2. I think, there should be a more concerted effort of those, who still have some kind of influence, to keep this man away from office. And it doesn't happen by treating him by what he is: A reality TV character.
Thank you, you are absolutely correct Michael M. We are on that particular brink. However, just as with Germany in 1933, there are no guarantees that people will see any parallels to an earlier era, to other despots, or care about reality. Trump is saying what many Americans want to hear. That some of it has no basis in fact or that what he proposes is illegal or not possible doesn't matter.
Frankly, it's hard to understand why Clinton passed up so many opportunities to put Trump in his place. Debates are less about defining your positions than demolishing your opponent. For example, when Trump said Clinton had been fighting ISIS all her life. Or when he elaborated on how poor US infrastructure is compared to other countries and then went on to propose a large tax cut. Taxes are what pay for infrastructure. Or his claim to improve community relations while promoting stop and frisk. Or his claim that our energy policy is a shambles. It goes on and on. Clinton hardly countered any of this and she could have made him look like an utter fool. It was disappointing.
Despite his performance, I'm sure his supporters loved it. He could still win.
His approach to campaigning is not new. Hitler won Germany with it. Trump could win America.
His approach to campaigning is not new. Hitler won Germany with it. Trump could win America.
Fear of smart people sure elects a lot of dullards.
Yes, Clinton is predictable. But in today's world, especially in foreign policy, predictability is a double edged sword. Our enemies (or perhaps we should say our "competitors") like to be sure of our reactions under pressure, so that they can more effectively pursue their aims. With Trump in power, they cannot be sure, but we can be sure it is unlikely to be violent.
Like a serious game of chess, the possibilities are endlessly complex. What Trump lacks is style and sophistication, so the media has a ball. His base of support has the same quality.
Like a serious game of chess, the possibilities are endlessly complex. What Trump lacks is style and sophistication, so the media has a ball. His base of support has the same quality.
As I saw it (and CNN agreed), Secretary Clinton "won" and Mr. Trump largely embarrassed himself. But I am not a Trump voter. And Fox News outlets (among others on the right) are claiming a great victory for Trump--repeatedly, unswervingly, assuredly. Perhaps Mr. Cohen is correct here: It is "unclear" if Secretary Clinton's victory will change voting behavior on Nov. 8.
I urge the NYT to reach out to GOP and/or Trump voters and DNC and/or Clinton voters and report their opinions of the debate--not just NYT contributors. Actual person-on-the-street voters.
Judging from CNN and Fox News coverage this morning, there were two very different debates last night: one covered by CNN with a Clinton triumph and one covered by Fox News with a Trump conquest. I'd love to know straight from the voters' mouths if perceptions of the winner are largely a matter of which candidate those voters supported beforehand.
I urge the NYT to reach out to GOP and/or Trump voters and DNC and/or Clinton voters and report their opinions of the debate--not just NYT contributors. Actual person-on-the-street voters.
Judging from CNN and Fox News coverage this morning, there were two very different debates last night: one covered by CNN with a Clinton triumph and one covered by Fox News with a Trump conquest. I'd love to know straight from the voters' mouths if perceptions of the winner are largely a matter of which candidate those voters supported beforehand.
As a foreign observer, I really can´t understand how Mr. Trump became a GOP candidate to the Presidency.
I followed the primaries process and from the beginning, Mr., Trump´s rhetoric has been the same. No commas, no semicolon or hyphen, nothing, except this comment repeated over and over again, and last night was not an exception: everything in the USA is "a disaster" and he will be the savior because he knows how to make good deals.
He claims that he is a good deal maker, but negotiating building permits to raise towers & casinos or business deals is not the same than dealing with formidable opponents like the Chinese or Russian leadership, because for that, knowledge, empathy, nerves, patience, and savvy are some of the necessary competencies that he has not demonstrated to have all along this election process.
I believe that his profile to be POTUS is limited and then, he could be a dangerous leader for the free world. implementing his confrontational vision on all the issues, from the Mexican wall to the role of NATO, to deportations, to Muslims, to misogyny and to protectionism.
I believe that the US and the world need an experienced leader who can cope with the multiple threats that lurk everywhere. Magical solutions have probed that don´t exist and complex problems require more than simple rhetoric that may convince those people angry with the system, but certainly will not help to solve the complexities of our time.
I followed the primaries process and from the beginning, Mr., Trump´s rhetoric has been the same. No commas, no semicolon or hyphen, nothing, except this comment repeated over and over again, and last night was not an exception: everything in the USA is "a disaster" and he will be the savior because he knows how to make good deals.
He claims that he is a good deal maker, but negotiating building permits to raise towers & casinos or business deals is not the same than dealing with formidable opponents like the Chinese or Russian leadership, because for that, knowledge, empathy, nerves, patience, and savvy are some of the necessary competencies that he has not demonstrated to have all along this election process.
I believe that his profile to be POTUS is limited and then, he could be a dangerous leader for the free world. implementing his confrontational vision on all the issues, from the Mexican wall to the role of NATO, to deportations, to Muslims, to misogyny and to protectionism.
I believe that the US and the world need an experienced leader who can cope with the multiple threats that lurk everywhere. Magical solutions have probed that don´t exist and complex problems require more than simple rhetoric that may convince those people angry with the system, but certainly will not help to solve the complexities of our time.
"knowledge, empathy, nerves, patience, and savvy are some of the necessary competencies"
You have clearly never developed a piece of commercial real estate here in the US.
You have clearly never developed a piece of commercial real estate here in the US.
I have yet to meet anyone from outside the USA who can understand this. They all ask me to explain it, and frankly, I can't.
But no matter how the election turns out, the fact that he DID come this close means that it's time for the rest of the world to step up. The days of leaving all the problems for the USA to sort out, and looking to that country to keep the world economy going, are over. Indeed, it was a bad idea in the first place, and certainly it's now perfectly clear that the American public is not qualified for the task. It's time to ask your own politicians what they're planning for the post-American era, and nag them until they tell you.
But no matter how the election turns out, the fact that he DID come this close means that it's time for the rest of the world to step up. The days of leaving all the problems for the USA to sort out, and looking to that country to keep the world economy going, are over. Indeed, it was a bad idea in the first place, and certainly it's now perfectly clear that the American public is not qualified for the task. It's time to ask your own politicians what they're planning for the post-American era, and nag them until they tell you.
B/c our government and the establishment on both sides are so corrupt, people want change.
Wanting change, no matter how disastrous the consequences, is like wanting a hurricane because you dislike how the weather has been.
Sorry Hillary supporters, but Trump clearly won this debate. Trump also understands that America can't keep borrowing money to prop up the economy. Hillary wants you (tax payer) to pay 100% of the expensive college tuition for all students. Are you kidding me? Trump is a businessman who will bring much needed financial common sense to the public sector. He hit the nail on the head when he called Hillary out... she has been in a position of influence for over 20 years and what has she accomplished? The answer is "Nothing for tax payers". She and Bill earned $125 million for themselves by selling access to the state department.
"Hillary wants you (tax payer) to pay 100% of the expensive college tuition for all students."
It is generally accepted that an IQ of at least 110 is needed to do college level work. That would eliminate at least 55-60% of all US high school graduates unless college is dumbed down to meet their lower IQ levels. Yet she wants the tax payer to pay 100% tuition for those unable to do college level work. The "progressives" love to cite the fact that "socialist" Europe has "free" college tuition but never mention the fact that it only applies to those who can pass a very difficult entrance examination.
It is generally accepted that an IQ of at least 110 is needed to do college level work. That would eliminate at least 55-60% of all US high school graduates unless college is dumbed down to meet their lower IQ levels. Yet she wants the tax payer to pay 100% tuition for those unable to do college level work. The "progressives" love to cite the fact that "socialist" Europe has "free" college tuition but never mention the fact that it only applies to those who can pass a very difficult entrance examination.
What's up with the snorting? Does Trump have a sinus condition or is he taking cocaine? And BTW, what has Trump accomplished?
He didn't win. Trump is not a good businessman, he has no financial commonsense. And lastly--there is not one example of pay for play for the State Dept.
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The irony of Clinton's besting Trump in the debate is that it most probably won't make a difference in the polls or in November's vote. As an independent who is not alone in eschewing both candidates I'm hoping Clinton does take a commanding lead heading into November. Trump is that dangerous. Seem confused? No, if Clinton is far ahead in the final week, I can comfortably omit a vote for president and focus on down ballot races. Here in Arizona, for me, that means voting for every Democrat in every race. The Republicans are that dangerous.
Daniel Goleman, Malcolm Gladwell and others have written extensively about emotional hijacking and the inability of individuals and groups to engage rationally with reality in a hijacked state. Fox News, social media, and the internet have created a virtual mob of people who live constantly in this state and can no longer perceive what is real. Hitler managed this feat in a much more orderly society by deploying his brown shirts to carry out his hateful doctrines. Trump is accomplishing the same thing in a much more diverse culture, but to a very similarly disaffected following. Can the brown shirts be far behind? Hillary Clinton is right. In their hijacked state, Trump supporters are acting deplorably. These are scary times for America.
If you replaced Fox News with the MSM, Trump with Hillary Clinton and struck the "Hillary Clinton is right" sentence, your comment would still be true.
NO it wouldn't --false equivalence.
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"But hesitant voters are looking for a glimpse of the unexpected and unscripted in her, a human connection rather than a political one. They will still be waiting." You underestimate the shoulder wiggle.
Clinton performed well but she did not achieve her most important goal, or what should have been her goal, to knock Trump off of the pedestal upon which his supporters have placed him. Trump's electoral strength and qualifications are inextricably bound to his image making ability which has made him a heroic figure a prophet and a transcendent leader who will turn people's life around. It's a blatant appeal to magical thinking, to redemption and resurrection of a nation by the power of will alone. That appeal cannot be affected by a few mishaps in a debate of this kind. Trump's hubris made him perform badly but his experience with crowds enabled him to keep going and uttering statements which made him seem the same figure which his supporters expect to see. So Clinton did not lose any votes but she did not put Trump away, either, and that keeps him in the race.
Rande says, "take a listen to NPR this morning; there are actually those out there still convinced he won the debate, did a grand job last night, sounded 'presidential', was in control, squashed Hilary Clinton, proved his knowledge and competence."
Yes, Rande, but please remember that The Con Don's supporters pay people to comment and try to make him look good and the hate-anger-fear-war crowd is still out there. It is up to those of us who are simply concerned citizens to get information out to our friends and family to show them the real Ms. Hillary Rodham Clinton. After all, they have been trying to destroy her for 30 years and she is still as strong and courageous as ever. SHE should have the vote of every woman in America - and the men who love them - because, as President Obama said, she is the most qualified person ever to run to be President including he and Bill. (He said, "Sorry, Bill.") SHE has my grateful, respectful vote.
Yes, Rande, but please remember that The Con Don's supporters pay people to comment and try to make him look good and the hate-anger-fear-war crowd is still out there. It is up to those of us who are simply concerned citizens to get information out to our friends and family to show them the real Ms. Hillary Rodham Clinton. After all, they have been trying to destroy her for 30 years and she is still as strong and courageous as ever. SHE should have the vote of every woman in America - and the men who love them - because, as President Obama said, she is the most qualified person ever to run to be President including he and Bill. (He said, "Sorry, Bill.") SHE has my grateful, respectful vote.
As I'd said regarding one of your recent columns, Roger - you were far better than that...
This is proof - good job...
But - here's where I think things stand...
Trump is saying that - for jobs - you need to have the factories...
Clinton is saying that you can print money to repaint bridges, give people free college, and help small businesses...
Taxing the wealth is a joke...Even if she got it passed, it'd take K street legalists 10 minutes to come up with family trust/foundation structures that'd go right around the law...
It's an absolute myth that "small businesses create most of the jobs" - in a primal sense...
Put a factory or an R&D center somewhere - and the money from those salaries/investment will circulate through the local community several times...
But - close the factory - and many of the small businesses in that town will close...
Others will hang on - but seriously crippled...
And - building a courthouse, civic center, and parking garages - only brings wealth to the construction firms and the ibankers who constructed the debt instruments...
See, Hillary - easy to say we should close private prisons...I agree...
But - also easy to say we should close military bases...Little ever happens...
Donald, go get Ford to build a plant where one of those prisons was - and to hire many of the folks who'd been incarcerated for non-violent crimes...
And - do prepare better for the next debate...
Watch lots of tapes of Reagan (movies, debates, whatever,...)
This is proof - good job...
But - here's where I think things stand...
Trump is saying that - for jobs - you need to have the factories...
Clinton is saying that you can print money to repaint bridges, give people free college, and help small businesses...
Taxing the wealth is a joke...Even if she got it passed, it'd take K street legalists 10 minutes to come up with family trust/foundation structures that'd go right around the law...
It's an absolute myth that "small businesses create most of the jobs" - in a primal sense...
Put a factory or an R&D center somewhere - and the money from those salaries/investment will circulate through the local community several times...
But - close the factory - and many of the small businesses in that town will close...
Others will hang on - but seriously crippled...
And - building a courthouse, civic center, and parking garages - only brings wealth to the construction firms and the ibankers who constructed the debt instruments...
See, Hillary - easy to say we should close private prisons...I agree...
But - also easy to say we should close military bases...Little ever happens...
Donald, go get Ford to build a plant where one of those prisons was - and to hire many of the folks who'd been incarcerated for non-violent crimes...
And - do prepare better for the next debate...
Watch lots of tapes of Reagan (movies, debates, whatever,...)
"Taxing the wealth is a joke...Even if she got it passed, it'd take K street legalists 10 minutes to come up with family trust/foundation structures that'd go right around the law..."
Exactly like the current Clinton Foundation.
Exactly like the current Clinton Foundation.
The jobs didn't leave because taxes were too high.
They left because wages in emerging market countries are insanely low. If we lower corporate taxes, the wage differential will still be there, but the revenue to support what remains of our civilization will not be there.
There's a place for tariffs in an overall package, but Trump is hardly the guy to sell them, either to Congress or to the American companies that the tariffs would have to be on. Remember, Trump is talking about cutting corporate and personal taxes across the board - as opposed to making the outsourcers pay. There's absolutely no logic behind his proposal, aside from giving the CATO Institute and Club for Growth types a thrill.
They left because wages in emerging market countries are insanely low. If we lower corporate taxes, the wage differential will still be there, but the revenue to support what remains of our civilization will not be there.
There's a place for tariffs in an overall package, but Trump is hardly the guy to sell them, either to Congress or to the American companies that the tariffs would have to be on. Remember, Trump is talking about cutting corporate and personal taxes across the board - as opposed to making the outsourcers pay. There's absolutely no logic behind his proposal, aside from giving the CATO Institute and Club for Growth types a thrill.
No it doesn't --what do you think the Clinton Foundation actually does? It contributes millions to feeding children and getting people HIV medication. It is given stellar ratings by every charity watch organization. The Clintons themselves contribute to it generously. The Trump Foundation, on the other hand, appears to be a slush fund used to pay off Trumps legal fees from his many lawsuits.
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You have no way of knowing the final impact of the debate on the race, Roger, any more than I do or any more than the public pollsters do. The only ones with HARD, REAL, MEANINGFUL, COMPLETE voter data, community to community, county to county, district to district, state to state, are the campaigns themselves through their internal polling and field offices - and believe me, they are not about to share that information with you or anyone else. Yes, Roger, even Kelly Anne Conway understands this race better than you do. Haw haw.
As for last nights so-called debate, it was a little like doing a comparative analysis to determine whether you will attend M.I.T. or I.T.T.
As for last nights so-called debate, it was a little like doing a comparative analysis to determine whether you will attend M.I.T. or I.T.T.
I've been getting deja vu from when I was about 9 years old and I think I just figured out why.
Secretary Clinton is the queen bee of all the 5th grade know-it-alls.
Mr. Trump is the king of the 3rd grade insurrectionists.
If she had pigtails he would dip them in his inkwell.
NY has a lot of 5th grade know-it-alls. NY Times is with them.
But America may have more 3rd grade insurrectionists.
Me, I'm in the middle. Like 4th grade. I think this has all gotten just stupid. Want nothing to do with either of them. But I'll still watch.
Secretary Clinton is the queen bee of all the 5th grade know-it-alls.
Mr. Trump is the king of the 3rd grade insurrectionists.
If she had pigtails he would dip them in his inkwell.
NY has a lot of 5th grade know-it-alls. NY Times is with them.
But America may have more 3rd grade insurrectionists.
Me, I'm in the middle. Like 4th grade. I think this has all gotten just stupid. Want nothing to do with either of them. But I'll still watch.
Billy, grow up and vote the clearly qualified and responsible candidate: Hillary Clinton. This is the Presidency we are talking about, not the grade school playground.
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What a show....., where one candidate has absolutely no clue, and constantly contradicts himself in one word salad after another, in is a utterly classless bully, bore and interruptor-in-chief to boot.
When for the umptious time Herr Drumpf blamed the rise of ISIS on President Obama and Hillary Clinton for taking the troops out of Iraq 'too early', the latter correctly said that it was Bush who set that deadline through negotiations with the Iraqi government.
I would have loved to see Clinton to first having asked him if he knew about the SOFA (Status of Forces Agreement).
Heck, two weeks before the Brexit vote he didn't even know what Brexit meant, and am quite sure that he would have thought she is talking about a couch.
How can 40% of the US adult citizenry even fall for this vulgar nouveaux riche, mentally challenged narcissistic man?
To paraphrase a former president, it is not the economy, stupid, it is the education stupid.
When for the umptious time Herr Drumpf blamed the rise of ISIS on President Obama and Hillary Clinton for taking the troops out of Iraq 'too early', the latter correctly said that it was Bush who set that deadline through negotiations with the Iraqi government.
I would have loved to see Clinton to first having asked him if he knew about the SOFA (Status of Forces Agreement).
Heck, two weeks before the Brexit vote he didn't even know what Brexit meant, and am quite sure that he would have thought she is talking about a couch.
How can 40% of the US adult citizenry even fall for this vulgar nouveaux riche, mentally challenged narcissistic man?
To paraphrase a former president, it is not the economy, stupid, it is the education stupid.
I agree with you except for your reference to Trump as "vulgar nouveaux riche". Yes, he is vulgar, but not nouveaux riche. He got his money from his daddy.
This is a guy who was born on third base and thinks he hit a triple.
This is a guy who was born on third base and thinks he hit a triple.
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STUPID! The key word for me is, STUPID,
----------------------------------------------------
Trump's whole approach is foolish. He should not even be running for president. It would be a disaster to have him in the White House. He is totally unprepared, with no previous experience in government.
I watched the entire debate, with split-screen, on C-SPAN and the comparison was stark. Trump is a fool. He is a disaster, waiting to happen to the US.
The only thing we have to fear is...Donald (Stupid) Trump.
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Now Clinton has to RALLY her supporters. Run, Hillary, run!
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Trump's whole approach is foolish. He should not even be running for president. It would be a disaster to have him in the White House. He is totally unprepared, with no previous experience in government.
I watched the entire debate, with split-screen, on C-SPAN and the comparison was stark. Trump is a fool. He is a disaster, waiting to happen to the US.
The only thing we have to fear is...Donald (Stupid) Trump.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now Clinton has to RALLY her supporters. Run, Hillary, run!
Check out the cement smile in the background, and I DO mean background.
Ches Bay--Paul Ryan, "policy wonk and economist," thought that DT gave a "spirited" presentation of the Republican position on everything. He went "toe to toe" with Clinton, and Paul was very pleased with the result. DT showed up, for one thing. Admirable. And he had his shoes tied, and his "hair" artfully combed over, and bobby pinned in place. That's good enough for Paul, exactly to his, and his party's, standard.
Ms. Clinton, please don't try to hawk your book during debates anymore. That was a cringe worthy moment and you're better than that.
No, not better....
She is better--meanwhile Trump is more interested in hawking his hotels and gold courses than actually campaigning.
Dear Trump voters: if you send me $10, I will send you a book that will make your lives great again. Thank you and God Bless.
Donald T. is a hollow candidate. There's no substance to his views or ideas. His rants about trade, China and ISIS are a mixture of lies, exaggerations and smear tactics. When asked if he would support Hillary if she won, his hesitancy was chilling. This is a man not to be trusted. This is a man that would make the world an unpredictable and scary place. He must not ever be given the responsibility of running this country. Ever.
I am very much NOT a Hillary supporter. But I am completely bamboozled and dismayed at the breadth and depth of Trump's support. He is clearly a nasty, racist, amoral, dishonest, terrible person who is completely unfit to be president.
I get it that a whole lotta people are disgusted with the standard political machinery of which there can be no better example than Hillary Clinton. But Donald Trump is so clearly represents a near certain disaster. I just don't get it.........................
I get it that a whole lotta people are disgusted with the standard political machinery of which there can be no better example than Hillary Clinton. But Donald Trump is so clearly represents a near certain disaster. I just don't get it.........................
"Rosie O’DonnellGate" -- Rosie O'Donnell knock-out!! Hillary wins! Trump still thinks he's being interviewed by Johnny Carson on The Tonight Show. Really, Rosie O'Donnell?? Maybe if they are talking about who is on the Hollywood A-List.
Her Royal Highness HRC's "Stamina" response was as scripted & rehearsed as an actor reciting Lincoln's Gettyburg address for an audition tape.
Roger, a man who has faced bankruptcy court apparently six times (and I thought it was only four...) DOES NOT understand money.
Donald Trump's unique talent is that of getting marks to believe in his ability to make them rich, a talent that The Times' own reporting on his financial career makes self-evident.
Donald Trump can only wreck America's economy - just the way that he has wrecked his businesses over and over and over again.
Donald Trump's unique talent is that of getting marks to believe in his ability to make them rich, a talent that The Times' own reporting on his financial career makes self-evident.
Donald Trump can only wreck America's economy - just the way that he has wrecked his businesses over and over and over again.
After last night, I'm voting for Clinton because I want to, not because I have to.
Trump's supporters aren't rational. To them it's a sport. It's like rooting for your team when they get a technical for blasting the referee.
I know someone who's fighting actively to legalize marijuana. She totally supports the Republican party. She doesn't want to hear that she'd have a better chance with the Democrats. And yes, she's a female.
I know someone who's fighting actively to legalize marijuana. She totally supports the Republican party. She doesn't want to hear that she'd have a better chance with the Democrats. And yes, she's a female.
Donald's doddering meandering "debate" missives exposed his hoary Triassic era ancient pedigree. Donald is older than any American who has ever run for President. Donald seemed very ill and very tired and very thirsty and bordering on senile dementia.
Perhaps Trump did not have his afternoon nap. Or did Trump soil and wet his adult diaper? Or did Donald suffer from the side effects of whatever medications he takes to soothe and treat his health maladies?
Hillary at 69 will be 15 years older if and when when she enters the White House than Barack will be when he leaves it. FDR died at 65. LBJ was dead at 64. Ike was 70 when he left the White House. Ronald Reagan and William Henry Harrison were the aged peers of Hillary and Donald.
Hillary is castigated for having no character. Donald is laughable for being a character.
Who can reasonably believe that any just fair moral God has blessed America with these two major political party choices?
Perhaps Trump did not have his afternoon nap. Or did Trump soil and wet his adult diaper? Or did Donald suffer from the side effects of whatever medications he takes to soothe and treat his health maladies?
Hillary at 69 will be 15 years older if and when when she enters the White House than Barack will be when he leaves it. FDR died at 65. LBJ was dead at 64. Ike was 70 when he left the White House. Ronald Reagan and William Henry Harrison were the aged peers of Hillary and Donald.
Hillary is castigated for having no character. Donald is laughable for being a character.
Who can reasonably believe that any just fair moral God has blessed America with these two major political party choices?
I never cease to be amazed at how Hillary is criticized for her evolving position on free trade (that's called 'GROWING'), but Trump gets a walk despite the fact that he contradicts himself minute to minute.
Different standards, Roger. You're a smart guy, but you've got one yard stick for the presidential candidate, and another for the reality TV buffoon.
Different standards, Roger. You're a smart guy, but you've got one yard stick for the presidential candidate, and another for the reality TV buffoon.
In my view, Clinton scored best when she went after Trump's business career. He constantly argues that his success in business is his foremost qualification for becoming President. Fact is, Trump's business career has been marked by repeated bankruptcies, thousands or lawsuits, stiffing contractors, questionable ethics, etc. Clinton needs to keep attacking on this whole issue -- it's the Achilles Heel of his entire campaign.
A discreetly administered distemper shot would have served "the Orange Furor" well
Hillary was like the straight " A " student in high school,,,Trump he cut class and never finished homework.
Twenty years later in real life the guy that did everything wrong is more accomplished.....To me he just seems more a regular guy looking out for the little guy.
Her.....too much polish.
And yes he talks like a guy on the street.
In the end,,,its about changing the country for the little guys not the rich a famous she hangs out with.
Twenty years later in real life the guy that did everything wrong is more accomplished.....To me he just seems more a regular guy looking out for the little guy.
Her.....too much polish.
And yes he talks like a guy on the street.
In the end,,,its about changing the country for the little guys not the rich a famous she hangs out with.
And who is it that you think DT "hangs out with"?
But Joe, Trump has a long historical pattern of taking financial advantage of "the little guy." He's caused contractors financial hardship or put them out of business for non-payment of the goods and services they delivered. (I was at a party last year where an architect told me it's common knowledge that Trump never pays full contract price, so informed professionals either decline to bid on his projects, or hike their estimates to accommodate his eventual withholding some of their fees.)
He strikes you as a regular guy? Being POTUS is a taxing job that requires particular and rare skills, none of which (most regular guys or) Trump has. He's not a scholar, lawyer, military officer, or public officeholder at any level of government. He's basically putting forth a fabricated resume (I wish this text box had accents!) and asking us to trust him as he starts his career in the topmost position in a new field. To return to your analogy, this is like a "regular guy" coming out of nowhere and asking to be made CEO of an international corporation, or the commissioner of a major sport, or (YOUR DREAM JOB HERE). There's no reason to believe he could do this job well.
It's disheartening that you prefer the guy who cut class and never did his homework (and whose "success" reveals a propensity for shady behavior) over the woman who established herself academically and might actually deserve the position.
He strikes you as a regular guy? Being POTUS is a taxing job that requires particular and rare skills, none of which (most regular guys or) Trump has. He's not a scholar, lawyer, military officer, or public officeholder at any level of government. He's basically putting forth a fabricated resume (I wish this text box had accents!) and asking us to trust him as he starts his career in the topmost position in a new field. To return to your analogy, this is like a "regular guy" coming out of nowhere and asking to be made CEO of an international corporation, or the commissioner of a major sport, or (YOUR DREAM JOB HERE). There's no reason to believe he could do this job well.
It's disheartening that you prefer the guy who cut class and never did his homework (and whose "success" reveals a propensity for shady behavior) over the woman who established herself academically and might actually deserve the position.
Donald is dark, twisted, villanious in a word evil. He has a lot of deluional people fooled.
I fear that the Democratic campaign underestimate the disenfranchisement, abandonment by public institutions, and economic inequality felt by both progressive and conservative voters. A "calm hand at the helm" is NOT what is wanted by these voters ... they want a change agent. The want a president who will take-on power centers in the US (the 1%, corporations) and advocate for a political system, economic system, and public and private institutions that will share the resources, education, jobs and wealth
of the country more equitably.
People are willing to chance an ill equipt, ignorant, bigot ... who speaks the language of change.
of the country more equitably.
People are willing to chance an ill equipt, ignorant, bigot ... who speaks the language of change.
He won't change anything. He will balk at the work of being President, go golfing, and Pence will run the show with the help of the Koch brothers. Trump likes the status quo just fine.
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What would it take to attract better candidates? Bernie was that better candidate and look what happened to him.
A 74 year old candidate worked his heart out to move the country toward a greater humanity and equally caring government and what happened? Bernie was thrown on the garbage heap!
A 74 year old candidate worked his heart out to move the country toward a greater humanity and equally caring government and what happened? Bernie was thrown on the garbage heap!
HC is such a bad establishment choice that I have to vote for Trump in protest.
NO she isn't and no you don't.
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Mt. Trump's "unbelievable" (the night's drinking word) debate performance was disqualifying on so many levels that I there isn't enough room here to catalog them. Suffice it say that his obvious lack of preparation for this important event was an insult to his country and the Americans he claims to represent.
To me, Mr. Trump sounded just like he has from the start of his campaign: Like a grasping narcissist who thinks he can keep his day job as chairman of The Trump Organization and run the country on the side. Mentioning his newest hotel and pushing its Pennsylvania Avenue location during the debate (unbelievable!) not only proves the point; it is yet another sign of just how little the man cares about working hard for anyone whose last name isn't Trump.
To me, Mr. Trump sounded just like he has from the start of his campaign: Like a grasping narcissist who thinks he can keep his day job as chairman of The Trump Organization and run the country on the side. Mentioning his newest hotel and pushing its Pennsylvania Avenue location during the debate (unbelievable!) not only proves the point; it is yet another sign of just how little the man cares about working hard for anyone whose last name isn't Trump.
She crushed him by any measure. We'll have to see if it resonates with the largely ignorant electorate. He has been selling his rotten steaks and rancid wine for 15 months. The public laps it up.
The largely ignorant electorate is all that matters.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3809204/Most-snap-polls-Trump-wi...
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3809204/Most-snap-polls-Trump-wi...
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Can someone please explain the point of the following statement by Trump in the debate last night:
“In Palm Beach, Florida, tough community, a brilliant community, a wealthy community, probably the wealthiest community there is in the world, I opened a club, and really got great credit for it. No discrimination against African- Americans, against Muslims, against anybody. And it’s a tremendously successful club. And I’m so glad I did it. And I have been given great credit for what I did. And I’m very, very proud of it.”
Is Trump praising himself for following the law by not discriminating? Is he suggesting that he was some sort of trial blazer in civil rights?
“In Palm Beach, Florida, tough community, a brilliant community, a wealthy community, probably the wealthiest community there is in the world, I opened a club, and really got great credit for it. No discrimination against African- Americans, against Muslims, against anybody. And it’s a tremendously successful club. And I’m so glad I did it. And I have been given great credit for what I did. And I’m very, very proud of it.”
Is Trump praising himself for following the law by not discriminating? Is he suggesting that he was some sort of trial blazer in civil rights?
There once was a Trump and a Hillary,
Each one tried the other to pillory.
Twas at the debate
That he met his fate,
For Hillary had bigger artillery.
Each one tried the other to pillory.
Twas at the debate
That he met his fate,
For Hillary had bigger artillery.
Trump will NOT win and we will deal with the aftermath of this horrible Trumpism. Do not buy into every scribble n' blog from any person or poll or publication. And then there is going out and fighting for every vote like Michelle, Barack and Joe asked us to do. And listen to Bernie too.
Republicans rejoice when we take the defeatist position. They never do. They pray to win, vote like crazy and then prey on the people. Remember how shocked they were when Obama won in 2012? That is cause they believe, fight and follow.
Listen to any interview with a Trump or GOP surrogates. They refuse, with unbound tenacity, to face defeat (or the truth or facts) and we quiver with fear and react politely and quietly.
Democrats, stop it and fight!
Republicans rejoice when we take the defeatist position. They never do. They pray to win, vote like crazy and then prey on the people. Remember how shocked they were when Obama won in 2012? That is cause they believe, fight and follow.
Listen to any interview with a Trump or GOP surrogates. They refuse, with unbound tenacity, to face defeat (or the truth or facts) and we quiver with fear and react politely and quietly.
Democrats, stop it and fight!
Getting hired for almost any job requires being qualified for the position, and you'd think that being qualified would matter a great deal in a Presidential election. So we have Clinton, a highly experienced, well educated and articulate candidate who has spent a lifetime in public service, as First Lady of the State of Arkansas, then as a popular and effective Senator for the State of New York, and then as Secretary of State of the United States. She's about as qualified as a person could possibly be for such an important, serious position.
On the other side, we have Trump, a real estate mogul who inherited his wealth, has been bankrupt six times, is known for a reality TV show and big hair, spouts racist and sexist comments or simply makes up stuff as he goes along until he's talking in circles, and has a reputation in the legal and business communities as a person who would rather litigate than pay his bills and will bend over backwards to avoid paying taxes to the country he holds so dear. And we're having a problem figuring out who to vote for?
Sadly, a bad debate performance isn't going to bother Trump supporters now. If they were going to carefully examine the emperor's new clothes, they would have dumped him long ago. That so many citizens seem not to care whether the President of the United States is fit for the job, either as a politician or a human being, doesn't give me a lot of hope for the future.
On the other side, we have Trump, a real estate mogul who inherited his wealth, has been bankrupt six times, is known for a reality TV show and big hair, spouts racist and sexist comments or simply makes up stuff as he goes along until he's talking in circles, and has a reputation in the legal and business communities as a person who would rather litigate than pay his bills and will bend over backwards to avoid paying taxes to the country he holds so dear. And we're having a problem figuring out who to vote for?
Sadly, a bad debate performance isn't going to bother Trump supporters now. If they were going to carefully examine the emperor's new clothes, they would have dumped him long ago. That so many citizens seem not to care whether the President of the United States is fit for the job, either as a politician or a human being, doesn't give me a lot of hope for the future.
Pundits keep keep talking about how the public wants "change." From what? Mr. Trump never really tells us how he will change anything, except that it will be "tremendous." The only change that Mr. Trump proposes is a change back to trickle-down economics, a policy which has been an utter failure since the Reagan era.
One question, which Trump said was fair game during the debate, is, "Is Trump obese?". If it's true that he just gained an inch of height according to his medical report, then he isn't, he's on the border between overweight and obese. But if he didn't just gain an inch of height, then he is, according to the CDC guidelines.
"...if a little too much of a policy wonk at times..."
And what is wrong with that?
And what is wrong with that?
Plenty of nameless, faceless policy wonks toiling away on behalf of government agencies in cubicles. Being a wonk is great, but if you can't get elected you are essentially an admiral in the Swiss Navy.
Nothing will matter to either Trump or Clinton supporters. They hear what they want to hear (literally... the process is known as Reduction of Cognitive Dissonance). It is my hope that the undecided will realize not only that Trump lies so much as to be totally untrustworthy, but that, worst, if he is NOT lying, then he lives in a dangerous world where opinions are facts and real facts are worthless.
Roger, you may appreciate that Hillary came well prepared for the debate and gave a good performance. But your viewpoint is that of a professional (with a political agenda). Most people are not interested in a well-crafted presentation of one side to a debate. We don't want to be manipulated. Trump spent last week campaigning in the rust-belt and got up on stage with a "what you see is what you get" approach. For many, this is preferable. He may be self-serving, but it's transparent. Hillary is also self-serving, but it's not at all transparent. She has even more responsibility to be open since she was an elected public official. She even pretended to wonder in disbelief what Trump could possibly be "hiding" in his 2015 tax return. Maybe this part of her performance wasn't so well crafted.
The Super Bowl it wasn't, though all the pre-debate frothing might make it seem otherwise. The hype around this debate almost made me want to throw a tail gate party, featuring very small Buffalo wings and roast crow for Trump, though he doesn't eat that, ever, ever.
That we millions of oxygen-deprived, muddily enthralled viewers, pundits and media take this seriously is a testament to Trump's ability to fool a lot of people a whole ...um.. truck load of the time. He was his typical dodo self, a jerk and nuts and ugly, and he was swigging water like he was little Marco.
And she can't get a breakthrough? What in the world do people want in their national leader? This 5th rate, shabby, vulgar, shallow not very funny guy in a rumpled suit? Or somebody with a brain in tact and some idea of how things work. Oh, but that's so boring, and the not funny fat guy in the rumpled suit isn't boring, I gather.
Well, there's next time. Maybe she'll get her breakthrough and maybe he'll collapse completely from lack of stamina.
I'm already planning the next pre-debate tail gater. Maybe with a book and an early nighter.
That we millions of oxygen-deprived, muddily enthralled viewers, pundits and media take this seriously is a testament to Trump's ability to fool a lot of people a whole ...um.. truck load of the time. He was his typical dodo self, a jerk and nuts and ugly, and he was swigging water like he was little Marco.
And she can't get a breakthrough? What in the world do people want in their national leader? This 5th rate, shabby, vulgar, shallow not very funny guy in a rumpled suit? Or somebody with a brain in tact and some idea of how things work. Oh, but that's so boring, and the not funny fat guy in the rumpled suit isn't boring, I gather.
Well, there's next time. Maybe she'll get her breakthrough and maybe he'll collapse completely from lack of stamina.
I'm already planning the next pre-debate tail gater. Maybe with a book and an early nighter.
The GOP have the innate ability to deny wrong doings, even if something turned abysmally amiss, as a direct result of their own actions. Fessing up is not their cup of tea. Also, the party, by and large, has been more of a group of grizzlers than sizzlers. Trump was gallivanting as a gadfly, and Hillary stayed put at her lectern - figuratively. He behaved as if he was on tenterhooks, where as Hillary was apparently well poised and even managed to look aplomb.
Trump, busy with his gasconades, appeared furious and fretful. He tried to forestall the attacks by Hillary, about his treatment of certain women, but his denials fizzled out, like deflating tires. His flubs about social issues, violence prevention, and foreign military spending, reeked of ineptness and flimflam. One could not hear any slam-dunk plan to rule not just the US, but to monitor the world against rogue regimes, including, China, and Russia.
By the same token, Hillary, though came out swinging, could not deliver a coup de grace, but she stood steady at least. Trump was wobbly.
Two more to go! Hillary had just a smidgen of an edge, but that was it.
Trump, busy with his gasconades, appeared furious and fretful. He tried to forestall the attacks by Hillary, about his treatment of certain women, but his denials fizzled out, like deflating tires. His flubs about social issues, violence prevention, and foreign military spending, reeked of ineptness and flimflam. One could not hear any slam-dunk plan to rule not just the US, but to monitor the world against rogue regimes, including, China, and Russia.
By the same token, Hillary, though came out swinging, could not deliver a coup de grace, but she stood steady at least. Trump was wobbly.
Two more to go! Hillary had just a smidgen of an edge, but that was it.
I can't tell you how many times I have heard columnists say that HRC appeared to be "too much of a policy wonk". Yet, whenever voters are interviewed and asked what they want to hear from the candidates, they usually say some variation of "I want to hear specific information about their policies" or "I want to hear about how they will solve our nations most pressing problems". Curious.
Lester Holt did an excellent job of impartially moderating the debate. Tip of the hat to Mr. Holt. At the end of the debate Hillary shook his hand. Trump was hovering behind her but decided to walk away without shaking hands with the moderator. Later, Trump did shake his hand (probably after being advised to do so by his "people").
I know of two people who were fence sitters and have now determined they will vote for Hillary.
Make that 4 now.
At least Trump wasn't genial the way Reagan was during the '84 debates. He showed us exactly who and what he is: a spoilt brat who thinks that if he says the same lie often enough it will become the truth. The man doesn't know the meaning of nuance, subtle, caution, or anything associated with being presidential except perhaps the first word in the phrase bully pulpit. And he is no President Theodore Roosevelt.
The only problem here is the American voter. Too many voters have been convinced that Clinton isn't qualified to be president on her own. But what do we see that qualifies Trump? His outsider status doesn't. He's a rino, Republican in name only. He's never served our country in any position. But he's saying what people want to hear and that's his appeal. It's unfortunate for Clinton that she isn't as comfortable with reporters as her husband is and was. But if we look past that to how she's served America her qualifications are much more substantial than Trump's.
The only problem here is the American voter. Too many voters have been convinced that Clinton isn't qualified to be president on her own. But what do we see that qualifies Trump? His outsider status doesn't. He's a rino, Republican in name only. He's never served our country in any position. But he's saying what people want to hear and that's his appeal. It's unfortunate for Clinton that she isn't as comfortable with reporters as her husband is and was. But if we look past that to how she's served America her qualifications are much more substantial than Trump's.
Ms. Hillary Rodham Clinton was gracious, knowledgeable, strong and confident last night because that is who she is. She also showed she can be tough as nails when needed.
The Con Don was his usual juvenile, braggart, deceptive self. That is who he is. He disparaged honest business people when he said it was "good business" to evade taxes. He is among the worst America has to offer, along with his hate-anger-fear-war supporters.
America will make the right choice on November 8 and elect the first female President - Ms. Hillary Rodham Clinton. SHE has my grateful, respectful vote.
The Con Don was his usual juvenile, braggart, deceptive self. That is who he is. He disparaged honest business people when he said it was "good business" to evade taxes. He is among the worst America has to offer, along with his hate-anger-fear-war supporters.
America will make the right choice on November 8 and elect the first female President - Ms. Hillary Rodham Clinton. SHE has my grateful, respectful vote.
Change...there's that word again. Americans "want" change. I think the change they really want was that which Obama sought to create, that was stunted and obstructed by a Congress determined to see him fail so they could say..."see--nothing changed". Nevertheless, things improved--incrementally and positively in a direction that most would agree is actually the right track, but on a slow moving train. Change, real change takes hard work, compromise and cooperation, and really should not happen too fast as that creates chaos and destruction that could be dangerous to our economy and democracy. Clinton will continue much of that correction started by Obama, but the results will not be immediate relief for those who have lost out by the changes in our economy. Trump however, is pedaling a fantasy that he and only he, can wave his magic fingers and transform the economy to the one enjoyed in the post WWII boom years. Those days are gone, we can create a strong economy, but it will be a different one. His only plan....tax cuts...the magic potion that has never created jobs, has never boosted the economy more than temporarily, but certainly defunds the government so that infrastructure falls to derelict status, and the debt balloons, government jobs are cut and the 1% happily pockets their return. There is no magic trick, but sensible planning via Clinton are the best chance we have to move forward into the future.
“Such was his scattershot incoherence on foreign policy…”
Foreign policy is foreign to Mr. Trump – he has made that repeatedly clear throughout the campaign and reiterated his lack of knowledge of it during the debate. We had laughed at then candidate George W. Bush in the 2000 campaign for being unable to name the heads of state of India and Pakistan – a region that would come to haunt his presidency, with the tragic attacks of 9/11, shortly after he became president. And yes, Bush’s Iraq obsession has contributed to the AfPak war becoming America’s longest war.
It is in this historical context that we must view Trump’s cavalier attitude towards NATO, our NATO allies and nuclear policy. A President Trump is likely to bring the doomsday clock perilously close to midnight. It is no wonder markets around the world heaved a sigh of relief after Trump tanked at the debate – they’ve clearly indicated their preference in our presidential election, one hopes that now the American people will follow suit.
Foreign policy is foreign to Mr. Trump – he has made that repeatedly clear throughout the campaign and reiterated his lack of knowledge of it during the debate. We had laughed at then candidate George W. Bush in the 2000 campaign for being unable to name the heads of state of India and Pakistan – a region that would come to haunt his presidency, with the tragic attacks of 9/11, shortly after he became president. And yes, Bush’s Iraq obsession has contributed to the AfPak war becoming America’s longest war.
It is in this historical context that we must view Trump’s cavalier attitude towards NATO, our NATO allies and nuclear policy. A President Trump is likely to bring the doomsday clock perilously close to midnight. It is no wonder markets around the world heaved a sigh of relief after Trump tanked at the debate – they’ve clearly indicated their preference in our presidential election, one hopes that now the American people will follow suit.
Donald Trump only cares about one person, himself. He admitted he did not pay taxes to suggest it was a good thing. Not paying your fare share to support America is not good. When is he going to just go away!
Do you voluntarily pay more than you owe in taxes?
YES!
The question was, Does it matter?
That Trump is any number of terms... Probably not. Those who despise Clinton...for many reasons, whatever they are...will look past Trumps block-headed short comings if they find him believable and at least partially capable. Her track record is up for grabs. True Dems think she is wonderful. Many, many other undecided voters find nothing in it but failure.
So back to the question...Unfortunately, these debates will settle nothing.
That Trump is any number of terms... Probably not. Those who despise Clinton...for many reasons, whatever they are...will look past Trumps block-headed short comings if they find him believable and at least partially capable. Her track record is up for grabs. True Dems think she is wonderful. Many, many other undecided voters find nothing in it but failure.
So back to the question...Unfortunately, these debates will settle nothing.
Great summary and a great conclusion.
But beware what you wish for - and here I refer to Mr. Cohen's notion that the American people want to "get to know" (in effect) Hillary.... and that they didn't in this debate.
Maybe, the Hillary who talked about "deplorables" is the "real Hillary," and if she hasn't put away someone patently unqualified to be President and - for most of us - way past "unlikable" - it's because:
You can't trust her; and
She's had her hand out for almost 20 years. (Remember, it's not so much quid pro quo as it is something like "We can address too-big-to-fail a la Ms. Warren ... or we can 'study' it to death.")
But almost every American - hey, people as a species - hates to be patronized and dis-respected. ESPECIALLY when 99% of the time, she's like a Swiss-made wind-up toy. Predictable. Well crafted.
With Donald - and I do not for a second consider this a virtue, substantively - what you see is what you get.
With Hillary, you really don't know if you're getting someone closer to Lady Macbeth or Eleanor Roosevelt.
Donald's simple-mindedness - build a wall, stop and frisk, etc. - may appeal to the worst in people, but it DOES appeal. (And face it - the portion of the electorate with no college strongly prefers "simple.") Hillary's attempt to relate to the middle class - even the female half - is a heavy lift,... and those ill-considered words at a fundraiser may prove to be the "fouling the nest" moment that it looked like when the tape first aired.
But beware what you wish for - and here I refer to Mr. Cohen's notion that the American people want to "get to know" (in effect) Hillary.... and that they didn't in this debate.
Maybe, the Hillary who talked about "deplorables" is the "real Hillary," and if she hasn't put away someone patently unqualified to be President and - for most of us - way past "unlikable" - it's because:
You can't trust her; and
She's had her hand out for almost 20 years. (Remember, it's not so much quid pro quo as it is something like "We can address too-big-to-fail a la Ms. Warren ... or we can 'study' it to death.")
But almost every American - hey, people as a species - hates to be patronized and dis-respected. ESPECIALLY when 99% of the time, she's like a Swiss-made wind-up toy. Predictable. Well crafted.
With Donald - and I do not for a second consider this a virtue, substantively - what you see is what you get.
With Hillary, you really don't know if you're getting someone closer to Lady Macbeth or Eleanor Roosevelt.
Donald's simple-mindedness - build a wall, stop and frisk, etc. - may appeal to the worst in people, but it DOES appeal. (And face it - the portion of the electorate with no college strongly prefers "simple.") Hillary's attempt to relate to the middle class - even the female half - is a heavy lift,... and those ill-considered words at a fundraiser may prove to be the "fouling the nest" moment that it looked like when the tape first aired.
We know very well she is closer to Eleanor Roosevelt.
After last night, I'm not ready for either of them..
Having seen the debate, I think Mr. Trump is the Potemkin candidate, he was once a democrat. I think he might win the Popular vote. I think they just wanted a Black male President before an Woman President.
And... who is this "they"?
There is something rotten in Denmark. A metaphor for suspecting foul forces at play in society! With all of the heinous positions Trump has made in his candidacy, there is something putrid, vicious, and hateful that describes all of his promised policies were he to become president! When polls are taken it must be wondered exactly what is the composition of the pool from which the poll is calculated! His claim that Hillary is all talk, no action. Wrong.
Some of the actions Hillary can rightly be accused of:
1. Her China speech on women's rights
2. Her role in killing Osama bin Laden
3. Saw a 50 percent increase in exports to China
4. Strong support of the sanctions on Iran that brought them to the table to abandon nuclear bomb development
5. Bipartisan work to pass the SCHIP program expanding health coverage to millions of lower-income children
6. Instrumental in helping secure $21 billion in federal aid to help New York rebuild after 9/11 to protect the first responders who rushed into danger when the towers collapsed
7. Got crucial legislation passed helping sick first responders get the care and treatment deserved
8. Relentlessly worked to protect and create jobs in New York, i.e., the Niagara Falls Air Force base; the Center for Bioinformatics at the University of Buffalo
9. Legislation for the Lilly Ledbetter Pay Equity Act, which is now the law of the land
10. Responsible for the Women in Public Service Project
10. Aggressive work on climate change, Copenhagen
Some of the actions Hillary can rightly be accused of:
1. Her China speech on women's rights
2. Her role in killing Osama bin Laden
3. Saw a 50 percent increase in exports to China
4. Strong support of the sanctions on Iran that brought them to the table to abandon nuclear bomb development
5. Bipartisan work to pass the SCHIP program expanding health coverage to millions of lower-income children
6. Instrumental in helping secure $21 billion in federal aid to help New York rebuild after 9/11 to protect the first responders who rushed into danger when the towers collapsed
7. Got crucial legislation passed helping sick first responders get the care and treatment deserved
8. Relentlessly worked to protect and create jobs in New York, i.e., the Niagara Falls Air Force base; the Center for Bioinformatics at the University of Buffalo
9. Legislation for the Lilly Ledbetter Pay Equity Act, which is now the law of the land
10. Responsible for the Women in Public Service Project
10. Aggressive work on climate change, Copenhagen
Thank you for posting this list. People need to be reminded that she has worked to better our country for a long time. Donald Trump? Well, he has devoted his life to building his bank account.
1. Do you think the Chinese care what Hillary thinks about women's rights? She accepts donations for Muslim countries that treat women like animals and gays and infidels worse. That had zero impact on women in China.
2) what role? none
3) We have a $700Billion+ trade deficit.
4) The sanctions were implemented under Bush. The plan is flawed. The appearance of billions for hostages, encourages hostage taking
5) Nothing is free. Healthcare costs are rising. That's the real issue
6) Nothing is free. Where is her plan to prevent future attacks. Look at the Middle East
7) Nothing is free
8) I know people who lost jobs to offshoring in NY State. Hillary is cozy with these people
9) Nothing is free
10) Nothing is free. Someone getting a job means someone else is denoed
11) Read the agreement. China produces more C02 than the US (despite having a smaller nominal GDP) and yet the climate agreement calls for more C02 production by China in comes years and less for the US
2) what role? none
3) We have a $700Billion+ trade deficit.
4) The sanctions were implemented under Bush. The plan is flawed. The appearance of billions for hostages, encourages hostage taking
5) Nothing is free. Healthcare costs are rising. That's the real issue
6) Nothing is free. Where is her plan to prevent future attacks. Look at the Middle East
7) Nothing is free
8) I know people who lost jobs to offshoring in NY State. Hillary is cozy with these people
9) Nothing is free
10) Nothing is free. Someone getting a job means someone else is denoed
11) Read the agreement. China produces more C02 than the US (despite having a smaller nominal GDP) and yet the climate agreement calls for more C02 production by China in comes years and less for the US
Those donations don't go to her, but the Clinton Foundation which feeds millions of people around the world, and gets HIV medicine to half of the people around the world who need it. Why shouldn't Muslim leaders pay for those good things?
Stanton’s take on the election 41 days before Nov. 8.
She will cream him again in the second debate, and he will never return for the third.
The smile on KellyAnne Conway’s face will grow so crooked by election day that she will be unable to lie with a straight face, and Dr. Bornstein will have to be called in to vouch for her sanity.
Hillary wins in a landslide, provided that the residents of every nursing home in Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, New Hampshire, Minnesota, Ohio, Iowa, Virginia, Florida, Michigan, Nevada, Colorado, and North Carolina can be made to turn out for the election, including the ones in comas.
She will cream him again in the second debate, and he will never return for the third.
The smile on KellyAnne Conway’s face will grow so crooked by election day that she will be unable to lie with a straight face, and Dr. Bornstein will have to be called in to vouch for her sanity.
Hillary wins in a landslide, provided that the residents of every nursing home in Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, New Hampshire, Minnesota, Ohio, Iowa, Virginia, Florida, Michigan, Nevada, Colorado, and North Carolina can be made to turn out for the election, including the ones in comas.
I wish that Hillary would speak even more to people who support Trump about his own business practices -- about his factories abroad, for instance, and what he pays ordinary workers, not his family and sycophants. I wish she would explain further that the rich DON'T provide jobs -- they keep their money for themselves, paying as little as possible to as few as possible. I wish that she would demonstrate once and for all that the problem with politicians - who are uniformly despised by Trumpets - is that, because of Citizens United, they are bought and sold by businessmen exactly like Trump -- and that it is those businessmen's policies that have ruined the middle and working classes.
Money, or lack of it, is not the only measure of success.
Money can reflect adaptation to a system. Trump boasts of playing the flaws of this system for all they are worth.
Based on words expressed by Ghandi, I think it is important to pay attention to what a person says because a person's words reflect their thoughts and guide their actions; I think it is important to pay attention to a person's actions because they guide a person's habits, and those habits become their values. Ultimately, the core issue in this presidential campaign is character. Trump's words, that reflect his thoughts and guide his actions, disturb me deeply - his persistent, calculated use of disinformation, misleading statements, and outright lies. If I can not trust a man's words, how can I trust his thoughts and his actions?
Always watch what they do and compare it to what they say.
Members of the press constantly criticize HC for being a policy wonk. May I remind you: She is running to be President of the United States. In case you haven't noticed, it's a job that is heavily involved with making public policy. I realize that there's a lot of anti-intellectualism in the U.S., and that being up on smart stuff like public policy can be seen by some members of the public as a liability, but I would hope that editorial writers for the New York Times would be mindful of their educative responsibilities. Is the message that we want to send to young people in this country: Don't be too smart, because it will cause you problems? If so, heaven help us.
Which is why we need to also give her a Democratic majority in Congress. If the repub majority in congress felt so inferior in both intellect and demeanor that they couldn't work with a smart Black president, imagine how they will feel at the prospect of having to work with a smart woman president.
I WAS an angry Sanders supporter resolutely determined to not vote for Clinton. Her performance last night, thoroughly beating The Donald around the head and shoulders with a stuffed eel until he was incoherent, satisfied me that she's will make a fine President. So, today I am popping by my local town hall, grabbing an absentee ballot, and striking while the iron is hot. A straight Dem ticket here in NH. For the record Kelly Ayotte has got to go.
Voters who "want rupture" are either masochists or still children who don't play well with others. Can I get a witness?
The first debate was like Thanksgiving dinner. Clinton was talking with the adults, while Trump was sitting at the kiddies' table.
By the end of the Presidential Debate on Sept. 26, the whole world breathed a sigh of relief.
Where was the moderator last night? How could Trump get away with constantly interrupting her? It was probably an uncontrollable impulse, honed from years of tyrannizing his ramshackle empire. The moderator did not moderate. He gets an "F".
For months Conservatives have presented the arcane argument that their Republican nominee is a terrible choice for America but because Clinton is not as far ahead of Trump in the polls as they say she should be this shows that Trump is the better choice. Now we hear Conservatives argue that thier guy lost badly but only Democrats get hurt if they do poorly in debates. Trump is a 'special' case evidenced by the fact that he won the Republican primary. So Clinton missteps and this sinks her candidacy while the unending stream of bluster and lies from Trump only improves his candidacy. In other words, yes, you ran faster than me and, yes, you crossed the finish line before me, but you didn't beat me by as much as I say you should have so therefore you lost. This is why the Presidential campaign seems surreal.
All that matters is the electoral college.
Don't forget to get out there and vote for your girl on November 9th.
Don't forget to get out there and vote for your girl on November 9th.
Mr. Cohen, when you write on international issues, I tend to agree with your perspective more often than not. However, your articles about this election contain discordant tones, especially those directed towards the first woman candidate for U.S. president. Is it because you were educated in the UK and have adapted a rather patronizing attitude towards women politicians common to many Englishmen? Is it that you have travelled and reported on many societies that are ruled by the patriarchy, and have adopted some of their attitudes? Whatever, your articles seem to be lacking a comprehensive understanding of the dynamics of our American society particularly as it affects women. Your headline "Clinton's Victory Without Breakthrough" indicates you do not or refuse to comprehend that her victory in this debate will definitely cause breakthroughs for both women and female children. You also do not seem to understand what it meant for female viewers to see a woman victorious at a president debate having won that achievement after being denied for more than 240 years.
Mr Trump constantly interrupted and ignored Mr. Holt's admonitions. That is not presidential, it is childish. He remains a petulant toddler.
According to the Mainstream Conservative Media it was the Mainstream Liberal Medias fault Trump looked so bad. It was Holt's fault and the MSM's pundits are all on Clinton's side.
Those same pundits never gave Trump a chance of winning the nomination.
They have been wrong for over a year.
They have been wrong for over a year.
None the less--Trump was really bad in the debate.
The inability of the Clinton camp, after all this time, to come to grips with the Trump phenomenon is downright pathetic. They're no wiser about it now than they were at the start. Witness her spin people trying to say that his mugging and snorting and interrupting on the split-screen killed him. It didn't. The split screen played right into his hands, giving him on always-on showcase for the unruly-boy mugging that has done a lot to win him his deplorable fans.
People are critical of Obama for being too oratorical. Then they are critical of Clinton for being too wonky. I guess they just want to be entertained.
Hillary Clinton does not look presidential to many people because she is a woman. Of course, that is misogynistic but that is the way it is. After all, how many women presidents have we had? If Hillary were a man she would be seen as much more likable and trustworthy, especially by men. Qualities that are usually seen as positive in a man are often viewed negatively in a woman. Why this is so not known. It is either cultural or instinct or, perhaps, both.
I suggest modest debate improvement. Give each participant an equal amount of time for each stage of discourse, and then cut off the mike when that allotted time expires. Time distribution should never be governed by the loudest mouth or most brazen interruptive behavior. After all, this is about the presidency of the United States -- and that, I argue, demands a proper level of decorum, even if it's necessary to impose it.
Trump's bragging about paying no federal income tax while complaining about the national debt is tailor made for a Clinton campaign commercial. So is his bragging about buying up foreclosed houses during the great recession and then selling them for a profit when the market rebounded. This behavior is not illegal, but it is certainly unethical and it disqualifies him from being President of American families who were left homeless by his greed.
If the bank forecloses on your house, you will be homeless. If someone comes along and buys it from the bank, so be it. You were already homeless.
The difference there was that he didn't lie about it. She would have said she did not buy that house. She is a One Percenter, through and through who cares nothing for the middle class...and only wants the rest of our votes so she can make history. His greed left no one homeless. On the other hand, her actions got people killed. Her lies are apparently not illegal in a Democrat-controlled Justice Department, but they are despicable.
Dear Roger,
The last sentence in your article summed up the feelings of all thinking Americans, did she win the war or only a battle.To me and millions of other Americans that have been hurt by the loss of manufacturing, Clinton had nothing to offer, other than plans only she knew. Here’s where Trump received my attention. His trickle down economy has a new wrinkle that might make it feasible. Unlike reagan he proposes a tax on all products produced overseas by American companies,if they want to sell it to the American Market. This would negate their tax cut & might keep manufacturing in the United States.Tax cuts might make American products competitive with foreign competitors. The loss of Corporate taxes will be made up by the taxes paid by employed Factory workers.Its a win win preposition. The Government will save billions on Government assistance.The Status Quo has not be able to turn the slums into gardens,I know it’s difficult to take anything that Trump says too seriously, but it just might work, it’s better than the same old same old, & it might give Trump the Presidency.Heaven help us.
The last sentence in your article summed up the feelings of all thinking Americans, did she win the war or only a battle.To me and millions of other Americans that have been hurt by the loss of manufacturing, Clinton had nothing to offer, other than plans only she knew. Here’s where Trump received my attention. His trickle down economy has a new wrinkle that might make it feasible. Unlike reagan he proposes a tax on all products produced overseas by American companies,if they want to sell it to the American Market. This would negate their tax cut & might keep manufacturing in the United States.Tax cuts might make American products competitive with foreign competitors. The loss of Corporate taxes will be made up by the taxes paid by employed Factory workers.Its a win win preposition. The Government will save billions on Government assistance.The Status Quo has not be able to turn the slums into gardens,I know it’s difficult to take anything that Trump says too seriously, but it just might work, it’s better than the same old same old, & it might give Trump the Presidency.Heaven help us.
You will never again see a hall full of machinists cranking lathes and milling machines because a single automated machining center can out-produce 500 of them with superior consistency and quality on top of that.
Steve,
Your correct robots have in many situations replaced labor, However, you need men to monitor the robots & program them. The basic problem with machines and robots are machines is they break down, which causes down time and a loss of revenue, men unlike machines do not break down, yes they get sick but are easily replaced on a production line.While Robots are extremely expensive & must be kept running in order to amortize them.
There was a company that produced gadgets on machines that produced 60 gadgets a minute, along came a new machine that produced 120 gadgets a minute. each machine required one man to load & operate it.The Company felt they could reduce their labor by buying the new machine that produced double then what his current machine produced, so they purchased it, laid off one machine operator, which helped amortize the cost of the new machine, which was 4 times the cost of his old machine.Everything was going fine he reduced his labor cost & his profits had increased, suddenly the new machine broke down, & there was no one locally that could repair it, as it was produced in Germany. Luckily, he still had his two slow machines, & had one worker left who could operate it, and although, his production slowed he was still able to keep his customers. He also discovered his one worker could operate two old machines, so his labor was still reduced & he was producing the same amount of gadgets with his two old reliable machines,
True Story !
Your correct robots have in many situations replaced labor, However, you need men to monitor the robots & program them. The basic problem with machines and robots are machines is they break down, which causes down time and a loss of revenue, men unlike machines do not break down, yes they get sick but are easily replaced on a production line.While Robots are extremely expensive & must be kept running in order to amortize them.
There was a company that produced gadgets on machines that produced 60 gadgets a minute, along came a new machine that produced 120 gadgets a minute. each machine required one man to load & operate it.The Company felt they could reduce their labor by buying the new machine that produced double then what his current machine produced, so they purchased it, laid off one machine operator, which helped amortize the cost of the new machine, which was 4 times the cost of his old machine.Everything was going fine he reduced his labor cost & his profits had increased, suddenly the new machine broke down, & there was no one locally that could repair it, as it was produced in Germany. Luckily, he still had his two slow machines, & had one worker left who could operate it, and although, his production slowed he was still able to keep his customers. He also discovered his one worker could operate two old machines, so his labor was still reduced & he was producing the same amount of gadgets with his two old reliable machines,
True Story !
"A lot of Americans want change; Trump is the political upstart and Clinton the political establishment".
Trump is NOT a political upstart. He is a grossly unqualified, narcissistic nincompoop with nothing to offer our country. He said it all last night. He pays no taxes ("I'm smart") stiffs people who work for him because he might not have liked the work they had done, and discriminates against people based on race (hey, it was legal) and truly believes that his own disgusting character defects are actually nuggets of wisdom this country needs.
Please, this man needs a straight jacket, not the trumped up moniker of "political upstart."
Trump is NOT a political upstart. He is a grossly unqualified, narcissistic nincompoop with nothing to offer our country. He said it all last night. He pays no taxes ("I'm smart") stiffs people who work for him because he might not have liked the work they had done, and discriminates against people based on race (hey, it was legal) and truly believes that his own disgusting character defects are actually nuggets of wisdom this country needs.
Please, this man needs a straight jacket, not the trumped up moniker of "political upstart."
Hillary lacks an overarching idea. She is uninspiring and not in the least transformative. Her solutions for the economy are the same blah, blah that created Bernie and Trump followers. Our elites are smug and arrogant and underestimate Trump's base. I think the Trump backers have no illusions about Trump's shortcomings, but he offers something Hillary doesn't: hope - a chance that somehow jobs will start coming back to America.
Clinton's prevarications are infuriating, but I'm not sure what else Trump could do to push me in her direction. One of the few conspiracy theories I find worth considering is that Trump's ENTIRE campaign was designed to give Clinton her best shot at the Presidency, but it's just not going as planned. It's almost like watching that musical, "The Producers," where the characters are actually TRYING to make the worst, most grossly offensive show of all time (entitled "Springtime for Hitler"), but the audience proves itself utterly incapable of recognizing the racist celebration of Nazism for what it is. Somewhere, Trump is probably wondering (to quote the musical), "Where did I go RIGHT?"
"A chance that somehow...." the Donald is peddling "this way to the egress" ... that leads to the abyss.
HRC create openings for herself last night but she did not close on the issues most negatively effecting her campaign. She remains too much the lawyer in an election that demands a friend, a neighbor. Maybe the town hall will do for her what it did for her husband, but if she really wants to win over Bernie's youth movement and the Reagan Republican women, she needs to connect in a more natural, humble and, yes, trusting way. Last night that was a bridge too far.
Leadership matters. Integrity matters. Honesty matters. Respect matters. Senator Clinton has these attributes--and humility. Candidate Trump can't even concede a factual point from the moderator--and he gets away with it. But the time of the bully is over in America--and most bullies are insecure and can't take any criticism as well. Well, Trump, you've met your match.
Did you just say Clinton is honest?
She is actually--at least more honest than most politicians.
In any other normal campaign, and yes, if Hillary was a man instead of a woman, Hillary would be 50 points ahead of this complete nincompoop. What I am enjoying even more is listening this morning to all of Trump's Chumps trying to spin this disastrous performance by Trump as some kind of draw. Yeah, right.
It just goes to show every sane person watching last night who has the gravitas to be president and who is a complete idiot. Trump Chumps can spin all they want. Trump was a mess. He gave a pitiful pathetic performance. And we have two more of these to go. Hillary has two more of these to go and you can see the relish in her eye after it was done. She loved what she did to Trump. And she put Trump on notice: He has two more of these drubbings to go.
DD
Manhattan
It just goes to show every sane person watching last night who has the gravitas to be president and who is a complete idiot. Trump Chumps can spin all they want. Trump was a mess. He gave a pitiful pathetic performance. And we have two more of these to go. Hillary has two more of these to go and you can see the relish in her eye after it was done. She loved what she did to Trump. And she put Trump on notice: He has two more of these drubbings to go.
DD
Manhattan
Trump will become president only if it's really true that one cannot underestimate the intelligence of the American people.
A good debate performance won't help a candidate as much as a bad performance will hurt, and Trump's performance was just plain bad. Even when he was scoring his points on trade he was belligerent and incoherent, unprepared and obviously in way over his head. Hillary Clinton did what she needed to do. I didn't see her reach for a glass of water once, while Trump was guzzling it on a pace to rival Marco Rubio. What was the deal with all the sniffing? He got OWNED.
I'm still having a very, very hard time wrapping my brain around the fact that Donald Trump, with the full range of his narcissistic, nasty, lying incompetence on display, has somehow found himself on a U.S. presidential election debate stage. And it's evident he's not going away anytime soon, no matter what happens. We have 20+ years of cynical Republican political gamesmanship to thank for opening this awful orange-hued Pandora's box.
It won't matter to Trump supporters.
It will matter to those on the fence, particularly of any of them give a darn about our country's future.
It will matter to those on the fence, particularly of any of them give a darn about our country's future.
Nothing new last night, they both played directly to their core audiences. Neither scored a knock-out blow and neither one displayed some new or compelling ability. What struck me though, was how tired and played out Hillary's politics are: higher taxes, plodding diplomacy, clueless trade policy, give-away social programs and endless Middle East wrangling. We've followed this path for quite some time now, and many of us are tired of it. Trump is certainly a wild card but at least with him it won't be business as usual.
He offered trickle down economics (in fact this is the only clear or coherent policy he offers)--that is the oldest, moldiest, disproved policy of them all--and it is still the central policy of the Republicans party.
Trump supporters will remain Trump supporters. Clinton supporters will remain Clinton supporters. The election will be won with the undecided and the third-party persuadables. One that score, Hillary may gain a point or two. The Donald will not. We'll have to wait the better part of a week to see that in polls, but the 2-3 point spread should increase to 3-5 points by then.
It's truly unfortunate that Hillary Clinton cannot effectively counter the consistent right-wing assertion that she is a pathological liar. It's even more given that Donald Trump seems to be and certainly displayed this feature last night.
She only won the debate if you believe her words. Nevertheless, turn off the sound and watch. Suddenly, you see it. She won hands down in the silent debate. It's easy to lie with words but not with body language and facial expression.
It's truly unfortunate that Hillary Clinton cannot effectively counter the consistent right-wing assertion that she is a pathological liar. It's even more given that Donald Trump seems to be and certainly displayed this feature last night.
She only won the debate if you believe her words. Nevertheless, turn off the sound and watch. Suddenly, you see it. She won hands down in the silent debate. It's easy to lie with words but not with body language and facial expression.
Though no clear breakthrough, Clinton retains the upper hand...while crooked lying Trump is at the height of ignorance and bluster, unable to connect one sentence to the next without attacking Obama and Hillary for any and all ills affecting society, unable to take blame for even his stupid remarks. It is unfortunate that his followers won't change their opinion about his impertinence and bullying, as it requires getting rid of their own prejudices and resentments. We are living in a deeply partisan reality, but not on equal terms, as the republicans continue to fan fear and hate via their vainglorious leader, absurd as it sounds.
I'm a lifelong Democrat and will vote, without any enthusiasm, for Hillary Clinton on November 8 solely because the alternative would be a total disaster. I cannot vote for a man who has insulted and demeaned Blacks, Hispanics, Jews, Muslims, the disabled, immigrants, and women.
All of my friends are voting for Clinton but all of them wish that Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren was the nominee of our party. Voting for the lesser of two evils will not bring out record numbers of people to the voting booth.
What concerns me most are two things: First, 129 million people voted for President in 2012. It would a a catastrophe if millions of voters choose to stay home this time because they refuse to support either candidate.
Second, and most important of all, is what happens after Clinton is sworn in as our next President? The American public is very, very polarized. You have people on Facebook unfriending family members because they support a particular candidate. We are shutting the door in people's faces if they don't agree with us. That is very, very bad for the future of our country.
The problems will not disappear after the election: race relations, climate change, the economy, terrorism, expanding and improving the Affordable Care Act, etc. A divided country will be reflected in a divided Congress. Little progress will be made and we all will lose.
I pray that our next President makes a serious effort to unify all Americans, no matter whom they voted for.
All of my friends are voting for Clinton but all of them wish that Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren was the nominee of our party. Voting for the lesser of two evils will not bring out record numbers of people to the voting booth.
What concerns me most are two things: First, 129 million people voted for President in 2012. It would a a catastrophe if millions of voters choose to stay home this time because they refuse to support either candidate.
Second, and most important of all, is what happens after Clinton is sworn in as our next President? The American public is very, very polarized. You have people on Facebook unfriending family members because they support a particular candidate. We are shutting the door in people's faces if they don't agree with us. That is very, very bad for the future of our country.
The problems will not disappear after the election: race relations, climate change, the economy, terrorism, expanding and improving the Affordable Care Act, etc. A divided country will be reflected in a divided Congress. Little progress will be made and we all will lose.
I pray that our next President makes a serious effort to unify all Americans, no matter whom they voted for.
So we can not insult and demean Muslims but it is OK for them to call us "The Great Satan" and shout "Death to America"? Seems like a real double standard.
That is not most muslims, and certainly not the muslims who live here.
Most pundits thought this election would be a runaway Clinton victory, her experience and organization up against his lack of both. Her measured, political approach against his bombast. The debate illustrated this dynamic. But I suspect few really care. The high ratings were not about people trying to decide, but about people watching theatre, maybe one of the absurd. We have crooked vs. crazy, and how the United States got here is hard to imagine. The Democrats nominated a political has-been, one qualified but devoid of the necessary charisma to rally voters. The Republicans have put up a woefully unqualified TV show personality.
Where this race goes from here is anyone's guess. The talking heads will do their duty and spin it this way and that, Trump's camp maintaining the moderated was in the tank for Clinton or some other asinine position, and Team Clinton will stress Trump's lack of presidential behavior.
This would all be funny were it not so serious.
Where this race goes from here is anyone's guess. The talking heads will do their duty and spin it this way and that, Trump's camp maintaining the moderated was in the tank for Clinton or some other asinine position, and Team Clinton will stress Trump's lack of presidential behavior.
This would all be funny were it not so serious.
She isn't crooked -- you can't give an actual example except for the usual debunked right wing talking points. I am tired of complaints from people who refuse to inform themselves.
By the standards of conventional wisdom and the normal rules of politics, Trump lost last night. But the conventional and normal may not apply this year. If so, what many view as negatives in Trump's performance may well be perceived differently by his supporters and those open to voting for him. I suspect it may be an interesting, and long, election night.
Trump's problem today is the same as it's been since early summer. The more the "middle" voters see of him the less they like him. Making stuff up and bragging about is real-estate smarts seems to work with his base, but doesn't persuade independents and "moderate" republicans to ignore his racism and xenophobia.
And when he goes off the rails -- responding to the cyber-attack question by talking about his 10-year-old son's computer prowess -- he scares people.
And when he goes off the rails -- responding to the cyber-attack question by talking about his 10-year-old son's computer prowess -- he scares people.
In this debate for this election, can there really be any doubt who should be the winner for president of this country? Watching Donald last night huff and puff and try to blow down Hillary's house was something out of a satiric show of farce in the no-contest debate. He played his cards and in his casino, he and his followers believe he "won." Hillary knows things that he will never learn, nor care to learn. His rhetoric is ad hominem but for trade issues; hers too wonky when directing people to check out her website for details on plans for economic issues, etc. Still, there is no doubt about the most qualified to lead this country by far in this no-contest election: Hillary.
Clinton was brilliant, the best I've seen her, but in this bazaaro world we're living in, it wasn't enough. As everyone, including many of Trump's supporters agree, the world is grading these candidates on a curve: can Trump pivot and not sound insane, can Clinton justify a few significant mistakes in a career of otherwise stellar public service.
Trump's one requirement for this debate: not say something patently racist, misogynistic or plain crazy.
Clinton needed to accomplish two things: avoid the feeding the tropes regarding her personality, unfair though it may be, and get her opponent to go full Trump on the stage.
She achieved the first, and at potentially great cost to our nation, she failed at the second.
Hence, Trump won. Unfair. Insane. But, true.
Trump's one requirement for this debate: not say something patently racist, misogynistic or plain crazy.
Clinton needed to accomplish two things: avoid the feeding the tropes regarding her personality, unfair though it may be, and get her opponent to go full Trump on the stage.
She achieved the first, and at potentially great cost to our nation, she failed at the second.
Hence, Trump won. Unfair. Insane. But, true.
Last night's debate was a clear victory for Clinton. More importantly I believe, it will sit in the minds of the American people and will stew for a while, developing into a strong long-term conviction that she is not just the best choice but a great choice.
Mr. Cohen, you wrote: "free trade that has, on balance, been good for the American economy for decades...".
It is time that this exhausted falsehood was laid to rest. It is not merely in economic theory that it is possible for a trade deal to increase GDP but decrease median income. leaving a substantial majority of the American people much worse off. That is exactly what has happened here and that is exactly why a bizarre blathering bumpkin like Donald Trump can be the candidate of one of our two major parties.
In essence, the trade deals have amounted to this:
American workers have lost jobs paying $15 - 30 per hour, with fine benefits, in return for minimum wage jobs with no benefits plus cheap flimsy Chinese gimcrackery from Wal-Mart.
American bosses have made obscene profits from the trade-off.
Enough.
Dan Kravitz
It is time that this exhausted falsehood was laid to rest. It is not merely in economic theory that it is possible for a trade deal to increase GDP but decrease median income. leaving a substantial majority of the American people much worse off. That is exactly what has happened here and that is exactly why a bizarre blathering bumpkin like Donald Trump can be the candidate of one of our two major parties.
In essence, the trade deals have amounted to this:
American workers have lost jobs paying $15 - 30 per hour, with fine benefits, in return for minimum wage jobs with no benefits plus cheap flimsy Chinese gimcrackery from Wal-Mart.
American bosses have made obscene profits from the trade-off.
Enough.
Dan Kravitz
The debate indicated that Mr Trump is beyond deeply disturbed.
He is without a doubt an extraordinarily shallow and angry man. He has no skills that would be useful as president.
Lets hope that his candidacy ends on a whimper so that the nation can begin to re set and move forward.
He is without a doubt an extraordinarily shallow and angry man. He has no skills that would be useful as president.
Lets hope that his candidacy ends on a whimper so that the nation can begin to re set and move forward.
I realize that the debate was the spectacle of the week, but I just couldn't watch it. United States citizens will either elect one of the smartest, most solid and prepared people in the world for president, or they will elect an evil, raving lunatic. I cannot imagine how anyone has not already made up their mind about which one to vote for, and I just can't stand watching this as spectator sport - the consequences are too serious and potentially dreadful.
Please God that we get past November 8th with Hillary elected, and we can all go back to Monday Night Football.
Please God that we get past November 8th with Hillary elected, and we can all go back to Monday Night Football.
The debate was a wash. People expecting voters to be swayed because Clinton is incrementally more articulate are likely to be crashingly disappointed. On average she probably exaggerates slightly less than him and is not as rough around the edges, but this is neutralized by the fact that she appears to be far, far more calculated and generally slippery.
To me, it was a actually a Trump win because even though his opinions are raw and at times don't even make sense (e.g., trade), he is very direct in it expressing them bluntly. He is not trying to appease all parties (e.g., "triangulate.")
Trump actually said something interesting a few months ago when asked to release a plan, I think pertaining to taxes: "Sure, I'll release it, but it doesn't really matter because when you sit down and start negotiating you go to plan A, B, C, D."
This is the stark reality that voters know and which pundits seem incapable of grasping.
Putting too fine a point on things is not really that impressive and in some if not most cases is actually dishonest.
To me, it was a actually a Trump win because even though his opinions are raw and at times don't even make sense (e.g., trade), he is very direct in it expressing them bluntly. He is not trying to appease all parties (e.g., "triangulate.")
Trump actually said something interesting a few months ago when asked to release a plan, I think pertaining to taxes: "Sure, I'll release it, but it doesn't really matter because when you sit down and start negotiating you go to plan A, B, C, D."
This is the stark reality that voters know and which pundits seem incapable of grasping.
Putting too fine a point on things is not really that impressive and in some if not most cases is actually dishonest.
Let's be clear; The debate will be won or lost by how it is framed by the media over the next few hours, days and weeks.
No matter how well prepared Secretary Clinton was or how succinct she was in her arguments, it will come down to how she is portrayed by the media.
Although I don't have faith in said media, I do have faith in the American people to have seen with their own eyes, and have heard with their own ears that there was only one leader on that stage last night;
Hillary Clinton.
No matter how well prepared Secretary Clinton was or how succinct she was in her arguments, it will come down to how she is portrayed by the media.
Although I don't have faith in said media, I do have faith in the American people to have seen with their own eyes, and have heard with their own ears that there was only one leader on that stage last night;
Hillary Clinton.
If, indeed, the Clinton campaign staff is so competent, why is Mrs. Clinton in a virtual tie with such an obviously inferior opponent? Could it be because rather than effectively demonstrating her strengths they are spending their time repeating what voters can see for themselves about Mr. Trump? The Clinton campaign, like their candidate, has a low opinion of the intelligence of American voters. We can see that Trump is a clown and we still want to hear - and can handle - the truth from Mrs. Clinton.
Trump's values are those of the wealthy. He is much more blatant about avoiding tax, stiffing his workers, hiring illegal workers, bribing politicians and using others for his purposes. He does not deny any of this--in fact he revels in this. The president of the USA is the representative of the western world. If you will, the emperor of this world. The only question I have is "How did Trump get this far?" He is obviously so unqualified that he is an embarrassment. The GOP is to blame. They encouraged Trump's "birther" rants and now they must suffer.
This was the first five rounds of a championship 15 round bout. The practiced professional Pol Hillary Clinton was clearly ahead on points on all scorecards, against a rank amateur buisinessman (think Spencer Tracey in Capra's State of the Union.) In the movie version of this, Trump is battered walking to his corner showing his amateur greenness. However, the last minute of the fifth round showed his character: Clinton fouled him on a crude personal level. And, with Chelsea in the first row, along with all of the Trump Children, Trump didn't foul back with the egregious poor excuse for a feminist husband, Bubba. I suspect the quick study amateur will fight back in the middle rounds, and win a bloody split decision by the end of the 15th. The peeps favorite. Donald as Rocky with a silver spoon in his mouth----a hero to Life of Rich and Famous fans= the american people.
Drumpf's astounding comment that "One way or the other, I will be on Pennsylvania Avenue," referring to his D.C. hotel venture, should speak volumes about his real goals in this ostensible Presidential race. His primary interest was and remains making money - he has charged his own campaign huge sums for the use of his own facilities during the campaign, he has used his own Foundation to pay off his legal bills for violating various municipal codes, he owes perhaps a billion dollars to at leas three major foreign banks and some ugly Russian plutocrats and has no intention of divesting himself from his shady businesses if he somehow manages to win this election. for him: it's all about OPM - "Other People's Money," as he shamelessly put it recently. It has nothing whatsoever to do with the good of the nation or the world. The man has always been and remains a two-bit con man and huckster.
Alas, Rebecca. The man demonstrated a sense of humor and the ability to poke fun at himself, human qualities that no died-in-the-wool leftie could be expected to appreciate in a president...
When and has he ever shown the ability to poke fun at himself?
I ask people to level set. To think about what normal standards of decency, probity, integrity, truthfulness and character entail. To understand that Trump is mentally unstable- and his evil, repugnance on display for all to see. We must go back to what before this contest was accepted as the minimum bar for the Presidency or any position of responsibility. Intelligence, coherence, principle, courage, compassion- and in this case basic sanity. Trump is an evil, unstable social media genius who has conned a large segment of the American people into believing he represents something bigger and better. But instead, he truly does foreshadow the abyss.
Clinton is without a doubt tough, prepared, dignified, tested, sane and devoted to public service. Neither she or any other human being deserves to be judged against the measuring rod of perfection. Over 30 years she has contributed a great deal and made mistakes of judgement. However, her animus is to contribute positively to the lives of others and to reduce the level of pain and suffering in the world. Trump has other designs.
Clinton is without a doubt tough, prepared, dignified, tested, sane and devoted to public service. Neither she or any other human being deserves to be judged against the measuring rod of perfection. Over 30 years she has contributed a great deal and made mistakes of judgement. However, her animus is to contribute positively to the lives of others and to reduce the level of pain and suffering in the world. Trump has other designs.
It looked like Trump crushed in the first 30 minutes that unwound all his gains in the final 60 minutes. This being said, I think Trump's supporters don't care what he says as they believe he will assemble a good team to take of small matters like the US economy, international relations and terrorism. This is a very unique and special campaign term. Trump has galvanized many people whose disillusionment with the state of US affairs is the only thing that matters. Trump came in unprepared for specifics but prepared to deliver his main themes-mostly that if you don't trust the government and Hillary is the government then you have to vote Trump. I think most if not all political pundits simply don't get this. The people who lean to Trump don't believe in political pundits. They don't believe in how DC has functioned recently. They don't like the way rogue nations around the world seem to continually bait the US, they don't like that many US jobs have moved to countries like China. They're tired of all the rhetoric and none of the actions that these words promise. I think Hillary is a prime punching bag for those who believe that our country is broken and Hillary is the source of these maladies and therefore can't be the solution. I too agree with alot of these points but Trump is too scary to earn my vote. I am not voting for Hillary per se but will vote against Trump. It's a matter of weighing the pros and cons and Hillary has earned my vote for this election.
But the same people are at fault for the state of our politics because they have been voting for Republican government haters and obstructionists for years now.
Hillary said for 40 years that candidates have released their tax returns and she wanted to know what favors Trump might owe to whom and whether or not he is as successful as he says he is.
Donald on the other hand said he would release his returns if she releases her 30,000 deleted emails. Her email problem is likely not something that any candidate has had to deal with in 40 years or more either.
It's ridiculous that time was spent on these topics, and Hillary has her own significant conflicts through her foundation and from all of the Wall Street money she's taken, when more the time could have been spent on the real issues.
While he is clearly obnoxious, outrageous and a bigot, and she is not, it's still embarrassing to have these these two contenders who by their bad behavior and bad judgment are both an embarrassment to our country.
Donald on the other hand said he would release his returns if she releases her 30,000 deleted emails. Her email problem is likely not something that any candidate has had to deal with in 40 years or more either.
It's ridiculous that time was spent on these topics, and Hillary has her own significant conflicts through her foundation and from all of the Wall Street money she's taken, when more the time could have been spent on the real issues.
While he is clearly obnoxious, outrageous and a bigot, and she is not, it's still embarrassing to have these these two contenders who by their bad behavior and bad judgment are both an embarrassment to our country.
Trump has really lost. Before his campaigning started, I would have (probably) bought a cup-of-coffee at the Starbucks located in Trump Tower. Now, I'd go out of my way, not to purchase there. I do not think this has been a very good company advertising campaign.
Wow! what an unprofessional debate. No wonder other countries laugh at America's candidates for President. President Obama at least had an orators skill when debating anything. Mrs. Clinton and Mr. Trump could not even make the debating team in a high school. How embarrassing they must sound to the rest of the serious people world wide. They both sounded crude and unprepared to lead any body or anything. It's no wonder that America is losing respect world wide..
No Hillary Clinton is a seasoned debater, knowledgable and poised. Just admit that you didn't actually watch it.
Trump supporters' "change" is code for get rid of the black presidency (and prevent a female one) and "change" to white male leaders who will double down on past failed policies. The only change Trump is offering is his white self, and a new wall.
People looking for Clinton's "grand new vision" need to wake up: focusing on infrastructure, opportunities for those struggling economically, and support for families is a HUGE change for this country!
Tax-payer "investments" in tax-breaks for the wealthy have failed--as Mr. Trump complained--look at our third-world airports. Things don't magically improve--they need responsible investment of tax money, not starving the fund and sabotaging oversight efforts.
The fixation on Clinton's "likability" is truly bizarre. She certainly seems likable, and is ten times more honest than her opponent, and we know more about her and her family than any other candidate, due to their history in the public eye.
She is not a grandiose blow-hard spewing lofty sound-bites.
She is a practical person with practical ideas.
For those pundits and others who are fixated on this --does she need to invite you into her kitchen for brownies? Knit you a scarf?
Grow up.
People looking for Clinton's "grand new vision" need to wake up: focusing on infrastructure, opportunities for those struggling economically, and support for families is a HUGE change for this country!
Tax-payer "investments" in tax-breaks for the wealthy have failed--as Mr. Trump complained--look at our third-world airports. Things don't magically improve--they need responsible investment of tax money, not starving the fund and sabotaging oversight efforts.
The fixation on Clinton's "likability" is truly bizarre. She certainly seems likable, and is ten times more honest than her opponent, and we know more about her and her family than any other candidate, due to their history in the public eye.
She is not a grandiose blow-hard spewing lofty sound-bites.
She is a practical person with practical ideas.
For those pundits and others who are fixated on this --does she need to invite you into her kitchen for brownies? Knit you a scarf?
Grow up.
None of this matters.
Trump was Trump, exaggerations (call them lies if you will call Clinton's lies lies) and all. But his lies don't matter because they are about insignificant things, and all Trump's supporters, and there are many, know this.
Clinton was the quintessential establishment crony, evading straight answers and bobbing an weaving calmly and professionally, tossing out platitudes, the ultimate politician, occasionally wrapping herself in womanhood.
So, the choice is clear, and this debate merely confirmed it.
Of course in a slightly saner America the candidates would not be these candidates. But who is to blame, the people? Or our so called "leaders", aka the establishment. And we are supposed to continue to vote for them? Only if we are dead from the neck up, and we are not.
Trump was Trump, exaggerations (call them lies if you will call Clinton's lies lies) and all. But his lies don't matter because they are about insignificant things, and all Trump's supporters, and there are many, know this.
Clinton was the quintessential establishment crony, evading straight answers and bobbing an weaving calmly and professionally, tossing out platitudes, the ultimate politician, occasionally wrapping herself in womanhood.
So, the choice is clear, and this debate merely confirmed it.
Of course in a slightly saner America the candidates would not be these candidates. But who is to blame, the people? Or our so called "leaders", aka the establishment. And we are supposed to continue to vote for them? Only if we are dead from the neck up, and we are not.
Its documented--Trump has 100 lies to any one of Hillary's, and his lies are YUGE!!. Why pretend that lying is an issue for you? You are the problem.
It isn't surprising the NYT reports that Clinton won. It is not surprising The Drudge pole has Trump winning by 82%. The real question is did either resonate with their supporters and those in between. Clinton has experience but sounded like someone who had a multitude of mock debates in her preparation and a crib sheet of predetermined answers. Much we heard from her were the same promises we always hear from politicians. But Trump came across as someone who would wield a wide broom getting rid of agreements that benefit others more than our selves. His point about our trade agreement with Mexico is a case in point. How is it that companies not only find cheap labor and new modern factories but also get a big tax break moving to Mexico? They don't have to pay any tax to sell in Mexico and none when they ship their product back here. But if they make it here, they pay a tax to send it to Mexico to sell. To the those who saw their jobs go south of the boarder, it doesn't make sense. Clinton said little or anything about this or our trade deficit. Trumps other point was that she and her party have had years to take care of these problems and haven't. If he legally takes advantage of tax breaks that seem unfair, why haven't they changed the law? They have had years to do it. It certainly isn't their wish to help him. So this wasn't a college debate. It was a chance for either to make those undecided wonder what to think about when they cast their vote.
You do realize, that those Drudge "polls" people can vote multiple times?
I know how to demagogue. I was born in the USSR and this was a skill taught from the kindergarten on. I was pretty good at it - fortunately, my family did not stay in the workers' paradise so I could pursue a career in lies, bluster and deceit. Watching Trump, I could catalogue every mean trick he used, every threatening posture he adopted, every lie he uttered. Honestly, he was not even good. My Young Pioneer class leader was better than him. And since I am not a politician, I can repeat the truth for which Hillary had to apologize. Every one who supports him is as deplorable as a member of the Communist or the Nazi Party and deserves the same treatment from any right-thinking person: contempt.
Excellent opinion piece by Roger Cohen.
"Nothing that transpired in the debate will have altered the fact that millions of Americans want rupture not continuity, and they see in Trump the potential for a radical break from politics as usual."
"Clinton won Monday night, by any conventional reckoning. But whether that makes victory for her on Nov. 8 any more likely is unclear."
Nailed it.
Clinton obviously won the debate. Trump sounded rattled at times and incoherent at others. The triumphalism of the Clinton supporters, however is premature and unwise.
Time and again Trump has said and done things that would have derailed any another candidacy, and yet he always emerges seemingly unscathed.
Clearly, Trump supporters believe he can do not wrong.
Hillary's supporters are also unwilling to acknowledge her many deep flaws, her terrible record, the corruption, obfuscations etc., blaming it all on a vast right-wing conspiracy.
This polarized, 'post-factual' and highly emotional political environment, where supporters of one candidate have no understanding of the opponent's supporters, is the overreaching theme of this hideous election.
For me the prospect of another Clinton presidency is depressing, especially because it was Hillary, along with the entire party establishment that threw the kind of people who are now grasping at straws in the person of Trump under the bus years ago, making his candidacy even possible.
A Clinton win will set up a Republican landslide in 2020.
"Nothing that transpired in the debate will have altered the fact that millions of Americans want rupture not continuity, and they see in Trump the potential for a radical break from politics as usual."
"Clinton won Monday night, by any conventional reckoning. But whether that makes victory for her on Nov. 8 any more likely is unclear."
Nailed it.
Clinton obviously won the debate. Trump sounded rattled at times and incoherent at others. The triumphalism of the Clinton supporters, however is premature and unwise.
Time and again Trump has said and done things that would have derailed any another candidacy, and yet he always emerges seemingly unscathed.
Clearly, Trump supporters believe he can do not wrong.
Hillary's supporters are also unwilling to acknowledge her many deep flaws, her terrible record, the corruption, obfuscations etc., blaming it all on a vast right-wing conspiracy.
This polarized, 'post-factual' and highly emotional political environment, where supporters of one candidate have no understanding of the opponent's supporters, is the overreaching theme of this hideous election.
For me the prospect of another Clinton presidency is depressing, especially because it was Hillary, along with the entire party establishment that threw the kind of people who are now grasping at straws in the person of Trump under the bus years ago, making his candidacy even possible.
A Clinton win will set up a Republican landslide in 2020.
Hillary's supporters know her flaws, but they are minor in the balance of her strengths and intelligence--and in the face of the idiot the repubs are running. I don't expect a candidate to be absolutely perfect, although President Obama is the closest we'll ever get--in spite of the racist repub congress folks, who have been on strike for the last 8 years.
The problem is that there is no serious debate about anything.
Take foreign policy as an example. The U.S. is involved in five wars in the larger Middle East, ranging from Lybia to Afghanistan, with no clear end-goal or strategy.
This debate didn't cover foreign policy enough at all, which was my lone reason to watch this debate.
The media has really failed everybody.
Take foreign policy as an example. The U.S. is involved in five wars in the larger Middle East, ranging from Lybia to Afghanistan, with no clear end-goal or strategy.
This debate didn't cover foreign policy enough at all, which was my lone reason to watch this debate.
The media has really failed everybody.
Norma,
Ever since the Democratic Leadership Council under Bill Clinton took over the party, the Democrats have become Republicans light abandoning the working class and the poor in favor of Wall Street and the millionaire class.
Hillary Clinton's horrific foreign policy record is never acknowledged by her supporters because if they would they couldn't in clear conscience vote for her.
Ever since the Democratic Leadership Council under Bill Clinton took over the party, the Democrats have become Republicans light abandoning the working class and the poor in favor of Wall Street and the millionaire class.
Hillary Clinton's horrific foreign policy record is never acknowledged by her supporters because if they would they couldn't in clear conscience vote for her.
"His case to be president came down to saying it was time that the United States is run by somebody who understands money." This has always been Donald Trump's stated justification for running for president, and Monday's debate showed why it is such a ridiculous notion. Despite running for president for more than a year, Mr. Trump still does not have a basic knowledge of trade policy and taxes, as evidenced by The Times's fact-checking of the debate. And he has yet to realize that nations and terrorist groups alike are not as responsive as companies to economic pressures and incentives. Hopefully, Trump's debate performance will have soured many undecided voters against him.
Hillary Clinton completely humanized herself by slaying the Lying Lothario that 16 Dunces of the Republican Confederacy couldn't lay a finger on...and she barely had to lift a finger to do it.
And she did it with a charming smile, a sense of humor and a mastery of detail unseen, unparalleled and unheard of in the alt-right universe of Republistan.
The Republican primary was a talent show for gun zealots, religious zealots, fear zealots, and trickle-down tax cut zealots....a Republican nuthouse where reality never intrudes on the cultured psychopathy of Fake News, hate radio and the nutritious value of Whites R Us Wonder Bread.
Back in reality last night, far, far away from the alt-right galaxy of Republistan, Americans saw a President-to-be observe the Pretender-In-Chief wax egotistically about the patriotic merits of surfing the racist Birther Lie for the last five Trumpian years
“I didn’t fail. I got him to give the birth certificate, so I’m satisfied with it .... I was able to get him to produce it,” Trump proudly said. “I think I did a good job.”
Hillary's pregnant pause response to Trump's pile of Birther Lie rubbish was utterly priceless:
"Well.....just listen to what you heard...." (to much delight and laughter from the audience)
Most Americans saw Hillary Clinton sweep multiple piles of Trump Trash right off the stage last night with poise, laughter and even charm, something most Americans hadn't fully seen before.
Hillary broke through and Donald collapsed.
And she did it with a charming smile, a sense of humor and a mastery of detail unseen, unparalleled and unheard of in the alt-right universe of Republistan.
The Republican primary was a talent show for gun zealots, religious zealots, fear zealots, and trickle-down tax cut zealots....a Republican nuthouse where reality never intrudes on the cultured psychopathy of Fake News, hate radio and the nutritious value of Whites R Us Wonder Bread.
Back in reality last night, far, far away from the alt-right galaxy of Republistan, Americans saw a President-to-be observe the Pretender-In-Chief wax egotistically about the patriotic merits of surfing the racist Birther Lie for the last five Trumpian years
“I didn’t fail. I got him to give the birth certificate, so I’m satisfied with it .... I was able to get him to produce it,” Trump proudly said. “I think I did a good job.”
Hillary's pregnant pause response to Trump's pile of Birther Lie rubbish was utterly priceless:
"Well.....just listen to what you heard...." (to much delight and laughter from the audience)
Most Americans saw Hillary Clinton sweep multiple piles of Trump Trash right off the stage last night with poise, laughter and even charm, something most Americans hadn't fully seen before.
Hillary broke through and Donald collapsed.
Well written, Socrates. I don't always agree with you, but well said with eloquence this time.
This was more of a performance than a debate. It is not possible to debate anything with an ignoramus who creates his own facts at will and then changes them at will to suit the situation. Trump's followers aren't interested in facts, they are interested in Trump. Trump is truly the great disrupter and that's what his followers want, a great disruption. Hillary Clinton is the skilled operator, the driver of the machine. Nothing else matters to Trump supporters.
Given this sad reality, it is necessary to grade this event as a performance. Trump was Trump. Hillary needs some work. She still fails to connect emotionally with the audience. Acting school is now in session.
In order to project an emotion, the actor must feel the emotion. When an actor displays an emotion, they truly experience that emotion. Last night, Hillary kept a smirky smile on her face nearly the entire time. She hid behind it. It looks phony and contrived. Bad form, Hillary.
She should let her feelings flow through her face, like a normal person, and not like a policy wonk robot. It's called authenticity. That is the pathway to making a connection to the audience. It works. That's how actors perform their craft.
Except she doesn't have to generate artificial feelings to project. She just has to let her true feelings emerge and not repress them. Don't be wonky Hillary, just be Hillary. Have the confidence to believe that others will accept what you are. They will.
Given this sad reality, it is necessary to grade this event as a performance. Trump was Trump. Hillary needs some work. She still fails to connect emotionally with the audience. Acting school is now in session.
In order to project an emotion, the actor must feel the emotion. When an actor displays an emotion, they truly experience that emotion. Last night, Hillary kept a smirky smile on her face nearly the entire time. She hid behind it. It looks phony and contrived. Bad form, Hillary.
She should let her feelings flow through her face, like a normal person, and not like a policy wonk robot. It's called authenticity. That is the pathway to making a connection to the audience. It works. That's how actors perform their craft.
Except she doesn't have to generate artificial feelings to project. She just has to let her true feelings emerge and not repress them. Don't be wonky Hillary, just be Hillary. Have the confidence to believe that others will accept what you are. They will.
Mr. Cohen has summed things up precisely. And that is precisely why thinking people are so worried. The canards that our economy is in shambles, our military weakened, our stature in the world diminished and our people wholly dispirited--lies belied by the facts but repeated ad infinitum and ad naeseum by the Republican obstructionists over the last eight years and duly reported too often without critical analysis by a media apparently desperate for conservative approval--have been accepted by too many too lazy or gullible to do their own research. So here we are: a country awash in information and information sources but apparently so bereft of the ability--or maybe desire--to accurately process it.
I think it matters, at least for now.
There was little substance at the debate especially from Trump but Clinton clearly looked presidential and Trump did not, defending himself against all the bigoted, race baiting, ego maniac, demagogic stuff he said in the past..
There was little substance at the debate especially from Trump but Clinton clearly looked presidential and Trump did not, defending himself against all the bigoted, race baiting, ego maniac, demagogic stuff he said in the past..
"Came across as a policy wonk"! Isn't the debate suppose to be about policy and how it will impact America? You seem to consider that a bad thing. It's time policy and plans was more important to the media than one line nonsense.
Kathryn Meyer, exactly. I am as tired of the too wonky line as I am of the not likable enough line. Hillary was prepared and I thought terrific last night. She will make a President we can be proud of and can count on.
I agree. All the people who think Hillary should show more emotion, be more soft and cuddly, baffle me. I'm not looking for my BFF in a president. I want someone competent, knowledgeable, and ready to realistically address the challenges of the current world.
Exactly! What are his policies? If anyone knows I'd love to hear them. He rambles and rants and digs deeper holes and then becomes totally incoherent.
Clinton had a deliberate strategy in the early going of not engaging in Trump's specific claims on trade. It was a chance for each side to get their own economic message out. But even then, Trump's comments were rambling and incoherent. At about the 20 minute mark Clinton started to bait and attack him more and he took the bait and fell apart. Honestly, I have never seen a candidate so flustered and unprepared as Donald Trump, especially after the first 15 or 20 minutes. Will this debate put Trump away for good? Not likely. Debates usually move the polls temporarily. What matters more is how Trump responds. He needs to accept that he had a bad night, release his tax returns, and prepare better for the next one. His first move blaming his microphone and saying that Miss Universe put on a lot of weight is not a good sign though.
We'll never see those tax returns just as we'll never see Hillary Goldman speeches -- which everyone has stopped mentioning.
If he releases his taxes he'll be sunk. It'll prove how little he paid, and I can't imagine even his supporters would like to see a "billionaire" not paying his fair share.
On a related note, when is someone going to stand up and shout, "Paying taxes is our patriotic duty! It's yours, it's mine, and it's certainly Donald Trump's!" I feel that way, although I would prefer that more of my taxes go to infrastructure upgrade and climate change efforts than war.
On a related note, when is someone going to stand up and shout, "Paying taxes is our patriotic duty! It's yours, it's mine, and it's certainly Donald Trump's!" I feel that way, although I would prefer that more of my taxes go to infrastructure upgrade and climate change efforts than war.
"His first move blaming his microphone and saying that Miss Universe put on a lot of weight is not a good sign though."
Yup, a good move might have been for Trump to declare: "This mike isn't working; this debate is rigged." Then he should have dropped the mike and walked off stage.
His supporters would be delirious with delight, and Fox would still declare him the winner because the debate was rigged, with the headline "Donald dropped the rigged mike, wins debate hands down."
Yup, a good move might have been for Trump to declare: "This mike isn't working; this debate is rigged." Then he should have dropped the mike and walked off stage.
His supporters would be delirious with delight, and Fox would still declare him the winner because the debate was rigged, with the headline "Donald dropped the rigged mike, wins debate hands down."
If you paid very close attention to the TPP exchange, and cross talking made that rather difficult, Clinton got though it OK. Nothing wrong with changing your position on something that evolves into something less desirable.The public is less interested in the complexity of trade deals than in drama such as the silly email thing and whether or not Trump paid taxes last year. Both are meaningless but easy to understand, I suppose.
The fact checking comments were very relevant. As evidenced by the fervor in the blogging world during the debate, it was a win for Clinton's team by speaking to viewers posting online in real time. When I looked, Trump did not have fact checking going on his site as he claimed, another early win for Clinton.
Trump's canoe went over the waterfall during the first question and Clinton's charisma factor, although much improved, had a bit too much pedantry to make inaudible his crazy cries for help the rest of the night. Agreed, a win for Hillary but not a blowout.
The fact checking comments were very relevant. As evidenced by the fervor in the blogging world during the debate, it was a win for Clinton's team by speaking to viewers posting online in real time. When I looked, Trump did not have fact checking going on his site as he claimed, another early win for Clinton.
Trump's canoe went over the waterfall during the first question and Clinton's charisma factor, although much improved, had a bit too much pedantry to make inaudible his crazy cries for help the rest of the night. Agreed, a win for Hillary but not a blowout.
I think Holt unintentionally made Ms. Clinton look stronger. How? Mr. Trump basically ran over Lester Holt like a Mack truck running over a squirrel, whenever Holt tried to reign in Trump's interruptions and tirades. The result of this is that Ms. Clinton had to fend off the rabid dog for herself, which she did gracefully, humorously, and firmly the entire night. That is Presidential Character on full display.
Anybody undecided at this point is either an idiot or mentally incapacitated.
This debate is a joke.
If Americans decide for Trump many millions will suffer and it could be many more millions could perish.
It's like watching a herd of runaway cattle head for the cliffs.
Obscene and sad at the same time.
This debate is a joke.
If Americans decide for Trump many millions will suffer and it could be many more millions could perish.
It's like watching a herd of runaway cattle head for the cliffs.
Obscene and sad at the same time.
Agree with you, but what does that say about the people who are firmly decided on voting for Mr. Trump?
Perhaps that is exactly what Trump supporters want: violence to enforce "law and order." One person dictating national and international policy, shifting from whim to whim. An all-out attack on China, on Mexico and on all our former European allies. A person who alienates immigrants and encourages every form of racial bigotry and ethnic discrimination. A pure misogynist who deprecates women in every way, calling them disgraceful names. Anger is a fuse that once lit is hard to quench.
Thank you. I saw only the personification of evil oozing through the left half of my widescreen. Not a single redeeming quality exists within that "man."
1
RC: fair comment. Most viewers were probably partisans or confirmed cynics, and would not contemplate a change of mind. Positions have been fortified for months, the only question being how many of the GOP leadership might change their public stance on Trump. Some of us have been saying for over a year that his early supporters were attracted by his birtherism campaign. That was exposed in the debate, but not mentioned were Trump's calls for Obama to release his passport and his college transcripts, nor did HRC mention the many times Trump has referred to Obama as lacking intelligence. Whatever else might be said of our POTUS, that one does not fly.
Trump's case for the presidency was that he has great businesses all over America and the world. But he also told us that profiting from a housing crash is called "business" and that dodging taxes was "smart." That kind of business and smarts we can do without in the White House.
Trump's case for the presidency was that he has great businesses all over America and the world. But he also told us that profiting from a housing crash is called "business" and that dodging taxes was "smart." That kind of business and smarts we can do without in the White House.
In my opinion, the most revealing moment of Mr. Trump in the debate was when he called President Obama "your president" -
I agree with her on one thing. The single greatest problem the world has is nuclear armament, nuclear weapons, not global warming, like you think and your — your president thinks." (from the NYT debate transcript)
I agree with her on one thing. The single greatest problem the world has is nuclear armament, nuclear weapons, not global warming, like you think and your — your president thinks." (from the NYT debate transcript)
After tonights debate I am more comfortable with Hillary as President.
That said I think there is a reason Trump has been promoted to the #1 ranked challenger position and I am glad he is there to be the spur. However, you can’t go that route half heartedly as he did.
He should have said simply, yes I picked up the birther issue as a political ploy and it worked. But it wasn’t based on race it was based on a clear question about where Obama was born. I did the same with Cruz. Only PC could turn it into a race issue. I don't view things on the basis of race.
As to stop and frisk, you have 75% of the children in black communities being born out of wedlock and without fathers present. That has consequences. For that reason, stop and frisk worked in reducing crime in black communities. And one left wing judge’s opinion backed by a PC mayor in NY does not make it unconstitutional.
When she quoted him as saying he pays women equally when there work is equal work to men, he should have followed up and say study after study has shown most of the discrepancy is due to women not wanting or being able to work the long hours that men do.
He on the whole is a greedy money grubbing slob, but our system desperately needs someone to be able to puncture the PC miasma which chokes confronting realities even when painful. The ever growing population and increasing % of children on welfare portends a disintegrating society.
That said I think there is a reason Trump has been promoted to the #1 ranked challenger position and I am glad he is there to be the spur. However, you can’t go that route half heartedly as he did.
He should have said simply, yes I picked up the birther issue as a political ploy and it worked. But it wasn’t based on race it was based on a clear question about where Obama was born. I did the same with Cruz. Only PC could turn it into a race issue. I don't view things on the basis of race.
As to stop and frisk, you have 75% of the children in black communities being born out of wedlock and without fathers present. That has consequences. For that reason, stop and frisk worked in reducing crime in black communities. And one left wing judge’s opinion backed by a PC mayor in NY does not make it unconstitutional.
When she quoted him as saying he pays women equally when there work is equal work to men, he should have followed up and say study after study has shown most of the discrepancy is due to women not wanting or being able to work the long hours that men do.
He on the whole is a greedy money grubbing slob, but our system desperately needs someone to be able to puncture the PC miasma which chokes confronting realities even when painful. The ever growing population and increasing % of children on welfare portends a disintegrating society.
Actually, stop-and-frisk hasn't been show to reduce crime. There is only one ruling on stop-and-frisk as applied in NYC, and that did strike it down as unconstitutional.
http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2014/03/stop-and-frisk-didnt...
The birther issue was very much a matter of race. There wasn't nearly as much hoopla over it in regard to Cruz as there was regarding Obama and that clearly tied in with his name and his being biracial.
Studies have shown that not all of the gender pay gap is due to women not wanting to work the same hours. Further, their inability to do so also ties in to things like paternity leave not being available to the same degree as maternity leave.
Generally, when people throw out things like "PC", it is a lazy shortcut used to avoid serious analysis.
http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2014/03/stop-and-frisk-didnt...
The birther issue was very much a matter of race. There wasn't nearly as much hoopla over it in regard to Cruz as there was regarding Obama and that clearly tied in with his name and his being biracial.
Studies have shown that not all of the gender pay gap is due to women not wanting to work the same hours. Further, their inability to do so also ties in to things like paternity leave not being available to the same degree as maternity leave.
Generally, when people throw out things like "PC", it is a lazy shortcut used to avoid serious analysis.
although unfortunate, your statement that "The ever growing population and increasing % of children on welfare portends a disintegrating society.", is wrong.
we are all fortunate that there are any funds available for the kids. if we gave them nothing then we would be a disintegrating society.
we are all fortunate that there are any funds available for the kids. if we gave them nothing then we would be a disintegrating society.
"And one left wing judge’s opinion backed by a PC mayor in NY does not make it unconstitutional."
Ummm .... you get to decide what judges you agree with? Sorry it doesn't work that way. That's Trump talk.
This is how our system works: Unless the judge is overruled by a higher court, her ruling must be respected: Stop and Frisk is unconstitutional.
Respecting judges is part of what's called "law and order."
People deciding they know better than judges is the scariest portent of a disintegrating society.
Ummm .... you get to decide what judges you agree with? Sorry it doesn't work that way. That's Trump talk.
This is how our system works: Unless the judge is overruled by a higher court, her ruling must be respected: Stop and Frisk is unconstitutional.
Respecting judges is part of what's called "law and order."
People deciding they know better than judges is the scariest portent of a disintegrating society.
I am one of the voters who want change. I want a Democratic president and Congress. I want "huge" investment in infrastructure, education, research and healthcare, and the jobs that will bring. I want Social Security funded by FICA collected on salaries over $118,000 ( or whatever the limit is these days). I want change.
You had change. It was called Obama.
... so you're voting against Clinton? We don't need another Neocon puppet of the rich.
Obama did what he could--blame the obstructionist Republican congress.
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Mrs. Clinton crushed him in that debate. However, his followers really are that basket of deplorables and they have only a casual relationship to the truth. If you are racist, xenophobic, homophobic and generally ignorant. You are not getting off the Trump train. May god help us all...
I would agree with you 100 per cent, but listening on NPR this morning to a well-spoken young Black man affirm his continuing support for trump was mind-blowing. In my mind, any non-Anglo American voter who supports such a racist must be full of self-hatred. How else can one explain it?
You're being charitable when you say Trump's followers have a "casual" relationship with the truth. If they still support him after Monday night's debate, they have "no" relationship with the truth.
I thought Hillary did what she does best,lay out her teams policies and principles.The Donald not so much,it's all about him and his warped view of life.If you watch" you've been trumped" from 2012 [Doc/Sundance} he shows the same character defects on display through out his campaign.She had plenty of opportunities to go low and did not.How anyone can still consider this manchild for president is beyond belief.She played her hand well,the temperment section was a classic.
Trump's constant talking over HRC and the moderator was very annoying. It amply demonstrated his lack of decency and civility, and showed him to be the bully that he is (a character flaw that I detest). His repeated denials of prior statements that are on the record was breath taking- does he really think we're all that stupid? Finally, he showed his contempt for us and the office of the presidency by his failure to prepare for the debate. He apparently thought it would be enough to give his canned campaign talking points, supplemented by the usual bluster, bullying and prevarication. That wasn't enough for me.
Trump's behavior also suggested to me that he may be unable to control his impulses to hit back aggressively when questioned or criticized. I think he would have great difficulty being diplomatic, which sometimes a president needs to be. The lack of preparation does suggest contempt, and also aligns with the comments from people he has worked with that he seems unable to focus on details that require patience to study.
"...does he really think we're all that stupid?"
Maybe it's not that he thinks voters are stupid but rather that he thinks voters don't really care. He has yet to be proven wrong.
Maybe it's not that he thinks voters are stupid but rather that he thinks voters don't really care. He has yet to be proven wrong.
Can anyone imagine being part of a Trump dominated cabinet meeting? Or a member of the joint chiefs trying to explain the realities and limits of war? Do we want this man's finger on the nuclear football?
Will we ever get a moderator who will put him in a time out corner?
I am not an American citizen, but I am just thrilled about this presidential election campaign. You feel that the Grande dame, called History, is lively present and that humanity could once again been hit by a severe blow of her forceful hands, if Trump becomes the next president of the American republic.
Until yesterday, imagining to be an American, I was ready to vote
for Trump. But this is finished now. As Roger Cohen writes it down in his always brilliant analysis, Donald was unrecognizable. He made wind with his hands, trying to cover the emptiness of his mind.
Being Trump and knowing that I have to be present at another two debates with my competitor, I would buy me a ticket to Honolulu, my head covered with yellow tulips, so that people won't recognize me.
Until yesterday, imagining to be an American, I was ready to vote
for Trump. But this is finished now. As Roger Cohen writes it down in his always brilliant analysis, Donald was unrecognizable. He made wind with his hands, trying to cover the emptiness of his mind.
Being Trump and knowing that I have to be present at another two debates with my competitor, I would buy me a ticket to Honolulu, my head covered with yellow tulips, so that people won't recognize me.
Hillary Clinton did a fine job. One thing that is missing from her rhetoric is an overall appeal to voters based on a vision of the future. People need a message in a broad stroke that encapsulates where she wants to take the country. My perception is that the lack of articulating a progressive vision of the future where everyone feels comfortable about their prospects is hurting her with young progressives and other fence sitters. Perhaps I'm just missing it, but I don't hear it.
You have to give the laid off factory worker that will never get his old job back and the young idealistic student hope for the future.
You have to give the laid off factory worker that will never get his old job back and the young idealistic student hope for the future.
She talked about creating jobs and providing affordable education. Were you taking a bathroom break?
First of all the type of smear job on Hillary has up to now mostly been recycled republican talking points that originated back some 30 years ago. Nothing that she has ever been accused of have come to anything more than character assassination. Bernie's big failure and disappointment to most of the progressive and liberal Democrats was allowing his campaign to dredge up these old wounds. Hillary has finally arrived to the point that she can now devote the rest of her message into the things you've suggested. The debate last night was a clear win for her and for the first time, the Donald has seen the face of defeat. I won't be surprised that he backs out of the next debate.
Clinton looked like she was on drugs. I wonder why the moderator didn't bring up the Clinton Foundation, Benghazi or all the other corrupt things Clinton did over the years!
Why do you say Hillary was on drugs?
Because she had incredible stamina? Did you believe droopy Trump's lie that Clinton does not have energy?? Yesterday it was Trump who was dragging his feet after the first half hour.
Benghazi has been investigated to death, 12 hours Congressional, nothing to it, and so with Whitewater, and Foster's death - enough already!
Clinton Foundation unlike the Trump Foundation has done huge good around the globe, unlike Trump's charity that used the money illegally for political donations to protect Trump from fraud prosecution.
Trump is cooked. If he is not already bankrupted, and the reason he is hiding his taxes, he will go down the financial tube, after the fines that will be brought against him for his fake university.
Because she had incredible stamina? Did you believe droopy Trump's lie that Clinton does not have energy?? Yesterday it was Trump who was dragging his feet after the first half hour.
Benghazi has been investigated to death, 12 hours Congressional, nothing to it, and so with Whitewater, and Foster's death - enough already!
Clinton Foundation unlike the Trump Foundation has done huge good around the globe, unlike Trump's charity that used the money illegally for political donations to protect Trump from fraud prosecution.
Trump is cooked. If he is not already bankrupted, and the reason he is hiding his taxes, he will go down the financial tube, after the fines that will be brought against him for his fake university.
Yeah, there's definitely something going on. Definitely something. And it's a beautiful thing, beautiful.
Dear Cowgirl .....
The drug shoe may well be on the other foot - that of Donald himself.
Speculation that Trump was on cocaine is having a run on Twitter and it began last night when Trump's sniffles were noted.
The following quote is from a Google search on the subject at hand:
"When #sniffles is the first hashtag out of the debates, you know something is going very wrong for the sniffer."
Speculation is now running rampant and where it will all end is anyone's guess.
In any case the issue needs clarification and surely we can agree on this conclusion.
I certainly hope you also do agree, Cowgirl.
The drug shoe may well be on the other foot - that of Donald himself.
Speculation that Trump was on cocaine is having a run on Twitter and it began last night when Trump's sniffles were noted.
The following quote is from a Google search on the subject at hand:
"When #sniffles is the first hashtag out of the debates, you know something is going very wrong for the sniffer."
Speculation is now running rampant and where it will all end is anyone's guess.
In any case the issue needs clarification and surely we can agree on this conclusion.
I certainly hope you also do agree, Cowgirl.
It should be noted that Il Trumpolini personally showed up in the spin room within minutes of the end of the debate to begin to cover up his failure to impress anyone other than his so called base. An unheard of action by any candidate.
Agreed that the email and trade issues had her flummoxed for a few minutes but I also agree that once she had the measure of the man she improved in the second half.
For those who wanted a breakthrough here, including me, I can't help but remember that during the primary debates with Sen. Sanders she repeatedly said she would make no promises she can't keep. Nor will she stoop to 'the sky is falling' language that passes as rhetoric from Il Trumpolini. Seems to me that electing someone who can get things done should be all we need.
But alas, in this insane election year just being competent is not sufficient. She still has work to do and 41 days to do it. It should be enough.
Hillary 2016
Agreed that the email and trade issues had her flummoxed for a few minutes but I also agree that once she had the measure of the man she improved in the second half.
For those who wanted a breakthrough here, including me, I can't help but remember that during the primary debates with Sen. Sanders she repeatedly said she would make no promises she can't keep. Nor will she stoop to 'the sky is falling' language that passes as rhetoric from Il Trumpolini. Seems to me that electing someone who can get things done should be all we need.
But alas, in this insane election year just being competent is not sufficient. She still has work to do and 41 days to do it. It should be enough.
Hillary 2016
One can argue that the only important question is whether, or not, one of these two people will start another 6 trillion dollar war in the middle east. Both are too comfortable with Netanyahu who has worked for 25 years trying to convince American presidents to start bombing Iran.
Nothing in this debate gives a clue.
Nothing in this debate gives a clue.
Although I would have liked Secretary Clinton to be more feisty in responding to Trump’s many lie and uncouth behavior, but thankfully, she did not.
She just let Trump trump himself, for all Americans, and the world to see. Like to have him expose his simpleton, taxi-fare understanding of NATO. Or his ranting about lack of investment in the country’s infrastructure, immediately bookended by the smug remark about how smart he is in not paying taxes. And I don’t know where he was going with his mention of his youngest son.
Trump knows who won, and lost, on Long Island yesterday.
She just let Trump trump himself, for all Americans, and the world to see. Like to have him expose his simpleton, taxi-fare understanding of NATO. Or his ranting about lack of investment in the country’s infrastructure, immediately bookended by the smug remark about how smart he is in not paying taxes. And I don’t know where he was going with his mention of his youngest son.
Trump knows who won, and lost, on Long Island yesterday.
"knows who won"??
I don't think he has the ability and/or emotional maturity to make any kind of honest assessment of his performance.
I don't think he has the ability and/or emotional maturity to make any kind of honest assessment of his performance.
Trump clearly didn't know himself where he was going about how smart his son is at computers. Trump just says whatever pops into his repulsive mind.
One of the Ten Basic Rules of politics is, "When the foe is committing suicide do not interfere." Clinton certainly understands that.
She was great at the debate, but her pristine performance can't compete against an a terrorist attack in the NY Metro area, Minnesota, or the rioting in Charlotte.
I am curious how a terrorist attack in the NY Metro area, Minnesota, or the rioting in Charlotte competes with the Hillary's stellar performance?
Or are you trying to say Trump would have prevented it? If you want to say this use your words and simply say this, but would have been simply a lie. Trump has no plan about any of this and his "secret" plans are a joke. Ha! Ha! LOL!
But everyone knows his secret plan to annihilate ISIS. Trump tipped his hand when he started asking questions, "if you have new nukes why don't we use them!!!!"
Is this what you mean? Do you think the torrent of hatred that will be unleashed if we nuked the Middle East will make us more safe? Or is it more likely we will see mushrooms over American cities?? Think about it and do not believe ANYTHING Trump says:
- Trump said he will make us rich with his casino's and even the investors lost their shirt, not just the gamblers;
- Trump said he will make us rich with his fake university and made money luring elderly into dept;
- Trump said he created jobs but then forgot to pay - ask the contractors.
Trump is not nice and he is proven liar. Do not trust his willings to use nukes.
Or are you trying to say Trump would have prevented it? If you want to say this use your words and simply say this, but would have been simply a lie. Trump has no plan about any of this and his "secret" plans are a joke. Ha! Ha! LOL!
But everyone knows his secret plan to annihilate ISIS. Trump tipped his hand when he started asking questions, "if you have new nukes why don't we use them!!!!"
Is this what you mean? Do you think the torrent of hatred that will be unleashed if we nuked the Middle East will make us more safe? Or is it more likely we will see mushrooms over American cities?? Think about it and do not believe ANYTHING Trump says:
- Trump said he will make us rich with his casino's and even the investors lost their shirt, not just the gamblers;
- Trump said he will make us rich with his fake university and made money luring elderly into dept;
- Trump said he created jobs but then forgot to pay - ask the contractors.
Trump is not nice and he is proven liar. Do not trust his willings to use nukes.
Trumps mic was definitely rigged, every time he called out for mommy it came out Hannity
Clinton's performance was not all that great. But Trump's was very bad. Trump supporters very much want change. But I think Trump was so bad that they'll wait another four years. Clinton didn't win them over. But I think a lot of Trump supporters will just give up on their guy. He really was unprepared and incompetent.
It would be difficult for anyone on stage with Trump to talk about substance and actual policy plans when dealing with so many blatant falsehoods coming from the the opposing debater. It's like trying to play tennis with someone who hits every ball out of bounds. In the end, it makes them both look incompetent, yet only one has actually won the game.
Both candidates opted to play it safe. There were no knockout blows and it's unlikely anyone changed their minds about who to vote for on November 8. The Clinton-Trump debate failed to live up to all the mainstream media hype.
Clinton's zinger about the impact of Trump's avoidance of taxes pinpointed the incompatibility between his public positions and his private values. The candidate asserted his commitment to "make America great again," partially by rebuilding our crumbling infrastructure. At same time, however, he bragged that his minimal tax obligations demonstrated his extraordinary business skills.
Possibly they do, but they also undercut the country's ability to undertake the public investments Trump correctly identifies as crucial. A man who, in his business practices, regards government as an obstacle to be circumvented, lacks the outlook and perspective to shape public policy to meet the needs of the entire society.
This clash of values also weakens Trump's claim that the country needs a businessman for president, in order to prosper. An entrepreneur seeks to benefit his own company at the expense of all his competitors. A president must work to help all sectors of the economy, not simply one firm.
Cohen acknowledges the superiority of Clinton's qualifications, on display in the debate last night. But he predicts that the widespread desire for change might propel Trump into the Oval Office, despite his vague, often bogus, promises to alter the trajectory of federal policy. If, in fact, the voters elevate to the presidency a man of such manifest incompetence, they will get change all right, but not the kind they crave.
Possibly they do, but they also undercut the country's ability to undertake the public investments Trump correctly identifies as crucial. A man who, in his business practices, regards government as an obstacle to be circumvented, lacks the outlook and perspective to shape public policy to meet the needs of the entire society.
This clash of values also weakens Trump's claim that the country needs a businessman for president, in order to prosper. An entrepreneur seeks to benefit his own company at the expense of all his competitors. A president must work to help all sectors of the economy, not simply one firm.
Cohen acknowledges the superiority of Clinton's qualifications, on display in the debate last night. But he predicts that the widespread desire for change might propel Trump into the Oval Office, despite his vague, often bogus, promises to alter the trajectory of federal policy. If, in fact, the voters elevate to the presidency a man of such manifest incompetence, they will get change all right, but not the kind they crave.
Over the past few months and more recently weeks the probability of a Hillary Clinton win went from the upper 80s to as of yesterday just over 50%. After last night’s debate I fear Trump is going to win. He is going to win for two reasons.
First, facts and policy don't appear to matter. Hillary Clinton gave a stellar performance of what policies she will pursue if elected. The only actual policy I heard Trump say was he would reduce the tax rate to 15% and this would so create so many jobs that we won’t believe it. Everything else Trump said was just idiotic nonsense; all trade deals are the worst ever negotiated, NATO is bad, Saudi Arabia should pay us for protection. Unfortunately this is what too many people have come to want to hear.
Second, we all but especially the media and journalist like you Mr. Cohen have allowed the Republican Party to abuse their power of investigation for their political ends to, as put by the Republican in charge, make Hillary Clinton “untrustable.” Newspapers such as the New York Times aided and abetted this with articles such as “Clinton Cash” and most recently the AP that worked very hard to make it appear Clinton guilty of pay-for-play as Secretary of State.
We will get the government we vote for. We didn’t learn our lesson from George W. Bush. Maybe this time we will, that is if the US can recover from a Trump Presidency.
First, facts and policy don't appear to matter. Hillary Clinton gave a stellar performance of what policies she will pursue if elected. The only actual policy I heard Trump say was he would reduce the tax rate to 15% and this would so create so many jobs that we won’t believe it. Everything else Trump said was just idiotic nonsense; all trade deals are the worst ever negotiated, NATO is bad, Saudi Arabia should pay us for protection. Unfortunately this is what too many people have come to want to hear.
Second, we all but especially the media and journalist like you Mr. Cohen have allowed the Republican Party to abuse their power of investigation for their political ends to, as put by the Republican in charge, make Hillary Clinton “untrustable.” Newspapers such as the New York Times aided and abetted this with articles such as “Clinton Cash” and most recently the AP that worked very hard to make it appear Clinton guilty of pay-for-play as Secretary of State.
We will get the government we vote for. We didn’t learn our lesson from George W. Bush. Maybe this time we will, that is if the US can recover from a Trump Presidency.
Thank you for a more measured response to what some of us felt was a sad night. This was truly a bitter exchange between a lying aged showman and a lying veteran political operative with smug cruelty on both sides and absolutely no inspiration or vision. They both look way past their use by date. The U.S. has lost an opportunity in this election, and the voters know it. Hopefully the parties,the press and voters learn from this and seek out some new, committed voices on both sides that can lead us into the future.
"The U.S. has lost an opportunity in this election, and the voters know it."
Fact: The voters got exactly the opportunity they wanted.
Fact: The voters got exactly the opportunity they wanted.
You nailed it perfectly. No more to say.
No inspiration or vision? That is a total mischaracterization of Hillary Clinton's campaign and it completely ignores the quality of her service and contributions to this nation and the world to date. The prophet Isaiah speaks directly to our situation when he writes, "Go and say to this people: 'Keep listening, but do not comprehend; keep looking, but do not understand.' Make the mind of this people dull, and stop their ears, and shut their eyes, so that they may not look with their eyes, and listen with their ears, and comprehend with their minds, and turn and be healed." We the American voters, not the candidates, are the most disappointing thing about this election cycle.
The American Republic today looks a lot like the Roman Republic about 2150 years ago. History won't repeat itself of course, it never does, especially in times of crisis when random events (The Ides of March) play a critical role in tipping an unstable social dynamic. But the instability today is real and it has similar causes to Rome's. So yes, Mr. Cohen, THE issue in this election is whether there is much in Washington that is worth preserving. Opinions in this regard align with wealth as they did in Rome. The wealthy today are wealthier than ever but the dwindling middle class is beginning to notice that their version of the American Dream is now largely regarded as a simple-minded joke by arrogant plutocrats. We have entered a period of social turmoil that may last as long as Rome's but that might end very differently.
What we saw in Trump is worse than anything we can imagine or articulate. Why not? He is the hero of those who abhor reason and truth and the uncertainty and complexity it reveals. Of all the horror one felt to watch and listen to him, the shock of his ignorance, insensitivity, bloated narcissism, the worst was to know that it is precisely our horror which excites his supporters.
"His case to be president came down to saying it was time that the United States is run by somebody who understands money."
Except for all we know without disclosure of his taxes is that Trump is bankrupt again. Only when we see he has more assets and cash than liabilities and loans will we know the truth. Given that truth teller he is not, having lied about everything so often, why should we trust him now when he has bombed four times before. It appears he has survived through bribery and corruption of politicians. Trump has even bragged about this.
Trump is an economic parasite making money through fraud. He was even rooting for an economic calamity where 12,000,000 Americans lost their homes. When Hillary called him on that all he had to say was "this is business. "
This guy is a sociopathic monster unfit to be president.
Except for all we know without disclosure of his taxes is that Trump is bankrupt again. Only when we see he has more assets and cash than liabilities and loans will we know the truth. Given that truth teller he is not, having lied about everything so often, why should we trust him now when he has bombed four times before. It appears he has survived through bribery and corruption of politicians. Trump has even bragged about this.
Trump is an economic parasite making money through fraud. He was even rooting for an economic calamity where 12,000,000 Americans lost their homes. When Hillary called him on that all he had to say was "this is business. "
This guy is a sociopathic monster unfit to be president.
@Eli: After last night's performance, it's clear that Trump's view on taxes is the same one Leona "Queen of Mean" Helmsley expressed to her maid: "Taxes? We don't pay taxes. Only the little people pay taxes."
Yes, you may well be right that he's bankrupt. That would explain why he said he's "underleveraged." Given his notorious pathological lying, what that claim probably means is the opposite, that he's bankrupt.
The IRS gives out no information about other people's returns. Do we even know for a fact that Trump is under audit?
I'm an American who lives in Europe (Hi NSA). As such if I wanted to watch this debate I had to get up at 3am. But I'm a political junkie, so I did. I am not a big fan of Hillary Clinton. She has some flaws that make me unenthusiastic about her being President. But compared to Trump she is a godsend. Trump scares the heck out of me. Unfortunately it was apparent in this debate that he solidified the support of his base. He behaved exactly as they would like for him to. Whether or not that will woe any undecided voters is an unknown to me.
Hillary, on the other hand, largely displayed confidence and competence, two things sadly lacking in Trump's performance. In place of confidence you get arrogance. In place of competence you get braggadocio. Neither one inspired, IMHO.
Hillary, on the other hand, largely displayed confidence and competence, two things sadly lacking in Trump's performance. In place of confidence you get arrogance. In place of competence you get braggadocio. Neither one inspired, IMHO.
" I think Donald just criticized me for preparing for this debate. And, yes, I did. "
For anyone who was actually watching objectively, when she said this, it had ZERO context to what was going on in the debates. She pretty much said it because she had no response, so she deflected with this pre-written line. It seemed awkward and cheap on her part.
For anyone who was actually watching objectively, when she said this, it had ZERO context to what was going on in the debates. She pretty much said it because she had no response, so she deflected with this pre-written line. It seemed awkward and cheap on her part.
Hillary also said she has "prepared to be President. And that is a good thing!" if you were actually watching objectively.
Objectively she was responding to one of many Trumps cheap shots. Trump looked cheap and awkward when he said she does not "look" presidential, she was no stamina (especially when he got droopy after the first half hour), and interrupting repeating the word "wrong" every time Hillary said something that Trump ha said a million times like "global warming is a hoax." Trump is a hoax.
Objectively she was responding to one of many Trumps cheap shots. Trump looked cheap and awkward when he said she does not "look" presidential, she was no stamina (especially when he got droopy after the first half hour), and interrupting repeating the word "wrong" every time Hillary said something that Trump ha said a million times like "global warming is a hoax." Trump is a hoax.
Dear Tom Dick Harry:
Clinton's comment about preparing for the debates DID have context. He had just stated that, while he went to Detroit and Philadelphia and other places. she just stayed home for 4 days. He was, in fact, criticizing her for preparing.
After all, from Trump's point of view, why should anyone prepare for anything?
Clinton's comment about preparing for the debates DID have context. He had just stated that, while he went to Detroit and Philadelphia and other places. she just stayed home for 4 days. He was, in fact, criticizing her for preparing.
After all, from Trump's point of view, why should anyone prepare for anything?
You were not watching objectively.
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My view was hardened. I am very glad that I married a woman born in Canada. If the unthinkable happens and Trump becomes President, we can move. It is not likely that Trump will attack Ontario. I would hope that he builds a wall to keep more Americans out though. Especially the dolts that are voting for this guy.
If there are values in real estate up there, President Trump might have to declare war.
Our FedEx guy is from Vancouver, and he had to deliver a package today. He told me he got up at 3 in the morning to watch the debate, because having Trump as president makes Canadians a bit uneasy as well. I told him maybe Canada will be building a wall as well!
If the media isn't crowing that Clinton crushed Trump, then you know she lost.
On the issue of stamina...I thought Trump looked very tired during the entire debate. The irony of him slugging water more than Marco Rubio (Little Marco, to Trump) ever did was priceless. He wheezed and chuffed and leaned heavily on the lectern. Decidedly not a healthy looking man. I also thought his comment about the 400 pound hacker in a basement was ironic...he is considered overweight himself, even though he sees a svelte 35 year old when he looks in the mirror. His capacity to offend is boundless.
You are so right. My wife heard the first half of the debate on the radio driving home and said that it sounded like Mr. Trump was having trouble breathing.
Good point about someone who is overweight! We see Trump trying to project his own flaws onto others all the time.
When it comes to stamina and a particularly ugly presidential campaign, Trump is starting to show wear and tear, slumped over the podium and looking distracted. Once again it reminded this American of watching a fight where the bull is about to go down on his knees before slowly shaking his big head to the left and right. Hillary Clinton, stepped aside at times, waving an 'invisible' cape over his shoulders, turning with a smile to her audience, giving some space to her opponent.
Trump knows how to work the crowd. He has been able to make sport out of politics, but not so far away, should he be defeated, this American hears the tax collector and lawsuits beating at his door. It is not a pleasant thought nor sound, but he is prepared to become an hotel or White House resident on Pennsylvania Avenue, and this may serve as a comfortable safety-net.
He has the support of The Military apparently, and perhaps some credit should be given to Pence and those of us, who question his judgement when it comes to his wishing to torpedo foreign sailors out of the water for heckling American tars.
Trump knows how to work the crowd. He has been able to make sport out of politics, but not so far away, should he be defeated, this American hears the tax collector and lawsuits beating at his door. It is not a pleasant thought nor sound, but he is prepared to become an hotel or White House resident on Pennsylvania Avenue, and this may serve as a comfortable safety-net.
He has the support of The Military apparently, and perhaps some credit should be given to Pence and those of us, who question his judgement when it comes to his wishing to torpedo foreign sailors out of the water for heckling American tars.
By the end, the bully was being dominated. He stopped interrupting and seemed defeated. His last responses were juvenile expressions of narcissistic injury - HRC's ads were not "nice" to him and he was being nice in not saying mean things about her. He'll be on the trail claiming victory and how maybe he should take his gloves off and stop being so gallant to the lady, but the bully has been now been smacked down face to face.
@NHA: It was obvious Trump was dying to bring up Bill Clinton's sexual transgressions, but his handlers forbid him to. He'll probably do so next time, and she'll be ready for him.
That was in the last twenty minutes when he came down from the snort.
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"A lot of Americans want change; Trump is the political upstart and Clinton the political establishment."
This is a distortion.Trump's enablers adore the stale congress which won't approve funds to fight health emergencies, like Zika virus or the Flint water supply.
The GOP won't even fix bridges and roads over which we must drive to get to work. It would rather increase tax cuts for the 1% and write the annual blank check to the Pentagon.
Change? Only if one defines change as more of the same would Cohen's words apply. Somewhere George Orwell is laughing.
This is a distortion.Trump's enablers adore the stale congress which won't approve funds to fight health emergencies, like Zika virus or the Flint water supply.
The GOP won't even fix bridges and roads over which we must drive to get to work. It would rather increase tax cuts for the 1% and write the annual blank check to the Pentagon.
Change? Only if one defines change as more of the same would Cohen's words apply. Somewhere George Orwell is laughing.
I agree David--I addressed this here also. Trump is not going to "tear apart the current political reality" (the words of one of the posters here) --that is the biggest delusion of his supporter. If he is President he will be in totally over his head--Pence will really be running the show, while Donald goes off to play on his golf courses, and the Koch brothers and the oligarchs will have completed their take over of our politics.
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What is a "winning" strategy for Trump is destruction for all - including allies, former employees, partners and opponents. Like his bankruptcies, his proposed winnings would be remorseless and may result in complete destruction at home or abroad, conventional or even nuclear.
I came looking for a Presidential Debate. I found an episode of Divorce Court.
Vote "None of the above."
Vote "None of the above."
False equivalence: Donald Trump pretending that he has more experience, knowledge, and skills than former First Lady, former Senator, former Secretary of State Clinton. While he was able to interrupt, and speak over, and lie about everything, Trump had all of the poise and manners of a middle school boy who did not prepare, did not do his homework, trying to bluster and bloviate his way through an "in front of the class" presentation. Cringfully embarrassing, utterly incoherent, loud when he didn't know or like the facts. If it is possible for Trump to win, we will have become a nation of intolerables.
I would add "spoiled" middle school boy.
Reminded me of the Paper Chase series right before John Houseman would rip to shreds anyone who dared approach him unprepared, Why didn't Trump flunk out in his first semester? Our standards have slipped far too much.
The more interesting question, of course, is what you plan to do with a nation of intolerables. A variety of ideas have been proposed for intolerables over the years.
She can "win" all the debates, though in modern times these tv shows are anything but classic debates, and lose in November. She can lose because we will vote against her in large numbers - seen the size of Bernie's rallies from coast to coast? She is supportive and indeed has participated in the twin activities we loathe, globalism and the war making that supports globalism. All else is blather. We care nothing of her performances at a lectern, her hidden health dramas, her life as cuckquean, email savant (Ha!) or cowardly, fleeing ambassador. No. Her history, her policies, her mendacity and the rotting infrastructure that championed her - these are what we stand in complete opposition to and our strength will be felt come November. You can bet your polls on that.
Bernie Sanders is not running. There are two candidates who can win in November, Trump or Clinton. It's an important choice. Are you going to abdicate your responsibility by voting for a third party candidate? In effect that's a vote for Trump.
Bernie lost and the vile hate you are displaying here tells why.
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Last night's debate ended any realistic chance for Donald Trump to be elected president. This debate, like this campaign,was/is never about issues, it was all about temperment and demeanor. The electorate wants change, but does Donald Trump have the attitudinal qualities to be president. No.Donald Trump imploded. His rants, interruptions, ignoring of Lester Holt, and serial fidgeting, viewed on the split screen, will be ultimately disqualifying.
You'd think his utter catastrophic performance and display of total ignorance would convince people this is not a person to occupy the Whitehouse. However, take a listen to NPR this morning; there are actually those out there still convinced he won the debate, did a grand job last night, sounded 'presidential', was in control, squashed Hilary Clinton, proved his knowledge and competence. Unbelievable - if we live in two entirely different universes, these interviews absolutely prove it. There are people just plain deadset on putting a buffoon, dictator-loving, megalomaniac, raging mentally unstable idiot in the White House and believe it will benefit them. If they think they are down now, just wait until they get a taste of what it's like to live under a reign of terror.
I sure hope you are right, but I fear that his supporters do not care one iota about things like his temperament, his intelligence, his experience, his preparedness, his ability to form coherent thoughts, or anything else remotely necessary for a president. They are one-issue voters: As long as he is as racist/xenophobic as they are, they're fine with him.
Rande, please ease up on the name calling. People are tired of that sort of rant. It lends nothing to the discussion...
Make no mistake ...Trump is wholly unqualified to be our president. This is not some choice we are making in picking a football team or choosing a soft drink. This is the real deal, and after so many years of Republicans warning us about security and the serious world out there .....the simpletons in the GOP base seem to be willing to blow up the system just cause they feel like it. Their selfishness and tribal immaturity could very well spell disaster for every one of them if Donald Trump were to get into office. Think this through ..... do you want to sacrifice your children or grandchildren to the whims of this mentally stunted 10 year old who calls himself a man ?
I don't think Trump will lose any supporters as a result of the debate, but I can't see how he could gain any. To anyone out there who is truly undecided, or thinks they are 'both the same', this debate surely leaves them with only one option. Either Trump or Clinton will be President, and there is no way it doesn't matter which one.
I have some very hard core Republican friends who hate Mrs. Clinton. I spoke with 2 of them last night who were former Trump voters who will not vote for Mr. Trump. I think they might vote for Johnson because they hate her but they will not vote for Trump. I think he did lose voters last night. I suspect undecided voters will vote for Mrs. Clinton.
I think Mr. Trump learned why we need gun control after shooting himself on national tv.
I think Mr. Trump learned why we need gun control after shooting himself on national tv.
There is the option of declining to vote for president or of voting for someone else (e.g., Gary Johnson) in order to send a message of how unacceptable both candidates are.
@MHW, all that "sending a message" does is to make you feel good about yourself. "I sure showed them!" you can smugly mutter, as you help to elect someone that you think is "unacceptable." Your job as a citizen is not necessarily to elect the best candidate, but to help put the best VIABLE candidate into the office of what is arguably the most powerful position in the world. Only Trump or Clinton are viable - not Stein, not Johnson, not Bernie. Of those two, you job is to decide who would be better for you, your children, the nation and the world. I know who terrifies me in that office - the person I saw last night who dodged, obfuscated, repeated long-repudiated lies, expressed bigotry and sexism and had no grasp of policy or facts. Hint: that does not describe HIllary.
It was almost painful to watch Mr. Trump fidget and squirm when he had to grant time for Ms. Clinton to speak on a topic. It appeared to me he might become unhinged at any moment. It won't surprise me to see that occur in the near future.
This man is vacuous. Dangerous.
This man is vacuous. Dangerous.
And if they don't find it . . . what? Vote for an arrogant delusional ignoramus because they lack some kind of human connection? Is that your prediction?