'Cause, as Donald has demonstrated, Landlords are always on the Right.
Does it really matter? There's a housing shortage in NYC, so no matter what, someone will rent from these creeps.
I think this is great. The tenant-landlord relationship is too asymmetric, especially at the beginning when the tenant is looking around for a home to rent, and one of the great things about information is that it makes relationships more symmetrical, which leads to greater efficiencies that benefit society in the long run. Of course landlords hate being treated the way they've long treated tenants--no one who holds lots of power wants to lose it.
And to those landlords who are on this comments thread complaining about deadbeat tenants--it's on you to do your due diligence. If you did shoddy or no due diligence on prospective tenants, then you get what you deserve. But at least you had that information easily available to you if you felt like using it. Tenants deserve the same informational rights and access. Kudos to Rentlogic! I hope that website grows and grows in market power. We tenants need it, especially in NYC.
And to those landlords who are on this comments thread complaining about deadbeat tenants--it's on you to do your due diligence. If you did shoddy or no due diligence on prospective tenants, then you get what you deserve. But at least you had that information easily available to you if you felt like using it. Tenants deserve the same informational rights and access. Kudos to Rentlogic! I hope that website grows and grows in market power. We tenants need it, especially in NYC.
1
Hmmm, I wonder what kind of rating I'd get from my deadbeat tenants? The ones who lived free for a year without paying rent. The ones who got free hot water, free heat, a free duplex apartment with a private parking space and a private yard. Hmmm, the one I had to take to court over a period of four years to get a judgment. The one the Chief Civil Judge in Brooklyn concluded owed us money. The one I'm now chasing through the Marshall. And this is a small building in Brooklyn.
I understand there are many bad landlords. But believe me, there are bad tenants, too. Housing court needs to be split into two divisions: large buildings and small buildings. The system is inequitable and definitely leans in the tenant's favor. Spending time in housing court was like being banished to the seventh level of hell. You can't believe it until you've experienced the horror of it.
I understand there are many bad landlords. But believe me, there are bad tenants, too. Housing court needs to be split into two divisions: large buildings and small buildings. The system is inequitable and definitely leans in the tenant's favor. Spending time in housing court was like being banished to the seventh level of hell. You can't believe it until you've experienced the horror of it.
3
Of course there are bad tenants, but the point is that the tenant-landlord relationship power imbalance is massively skewed to the landlord. And landlords have a bevy of ways to find information out about tenants - background checks, credit checks, requesting proof of employment and salary, prior years' tax returns, tenant blacklist companies, you name it. Every tenant is an individual person. Many "landlords" are anonymous shell corporations. It's not a valid comparison.
2
It is simple economics, there is more demand than supply
We have Senate, City Council, Assembly, local legislators housing committees and just continue to follow the $$, and you will find big donor developers, landlords who continue to not be accountable, and continue year after year to be on the worst landlord list. Note: Worst Landlord list is NOT maintained on a weekly, or monthly basis.
1
But even housing advocacy groups like Settlment Houses and UHAB have ended up on the Worst Landlords List with hundreds and hundreds of violations. And they get terrible ratings on RentLogic too. These are non-profit groups that are apparently fighting for tenants rights. So your logic doesn't hold much water. RentLogic and the WLL are just poorly executed and unrefined dragnets that lack credibility.
I am an avid reader of the NY Times. I am also a landlord in New York. I am very aware of how landlords are perceived, I have an uphill climb. I can barely count on my hand the number of articles written that take into account the side of the landlord – what can I say, we are an easy target. For this reason when I see articles that seem so oddly one sided like I did this weekend I feel compelled to give the other side. Granted this is a long shot – but I ask you read with an open mind.
Some may hear “landlord” and think they are probably all rich people swimming in money out of touch with reality – this is not the case for me, or for many of the providers of housing in NY. Regardless your view, at the very least I can appeal to those who will look at things from an analytical perspective, read this and say – “hmm, perhaps he has a point?”
Read my reaction here on LandlordsNY Blog (too long to post here):
https://www.landlordsny.com/blog/a-landlord-s-reaction-to-the-ny-times-a...
Some may hear “landlord” and think they are probably all rich people swimming in money out of touch with reality – this is not the case for me, or for many of the providers of housing in NY. Regardless your view, at the very least I can appeal to those who will look at things from an analytical perspective, read this and say – “hmm, perhaps he has a point?”
Read my reaction here on LandlordsNY Blog (too long to post here):
https://www.landlordsny.com/blog/a-landlord-s-reaction-to-the-ny-times-a...
3
The link you’ve posted appears to be down, at least on mobile. Care to post another one?
Well written reply. Those who have never rented out their property (house, co-op, condo) are clueless as to what is considered a win-win in a tenant-owner relationship. Nightmare tenants may pay the rent on time, while literally destroying the premises they are inhabiting as well as disturbing neighbors, who must suffer living next to them.
No doubt we know about "slum lords" and negligent landlords and property managers, but to your point, the Rentlogic article is slanted even if the intention was a good one.
No doubt we know about "slum lords" and negligent landlords and property managers, but to your point, the Rentlogic article is slanted even if the intention was a good one.
If there should be any Blacklist it should be for the politicians who every year renew archaic rent regulations that were put in place after WW II for returning GIs. Last time I looked most of the GIs who fought gallantly for our country during that war have died of old age. And in their place are tenants who reap the rewards of their sacrifice by paying rents lower than monthly garage rentals yet have never sacrificed a single day for our country i the military. Time to end the madness of rent control/stabilization and force these tenants to pay market rates like the majority of NYC residents.
2
You may want to look up how rent control/stabilization works, not only numbers-wise, but also it's impact on communities--- stabilization and controls help grow and solidify neighborhoods so they do not become the bleak, wealthy condo-ridden caverns that you pine for. They keep elderly, disabled and creative folks in a city that desperately needs to hold on to it's soul.
If keeping NYers and families in their homes after years of investing their time, money and love into a community and city is madness, then call me crazy.
I am one of the awful tenants you describe-- I live in a stabilized unit, never served in the military. But I did move into an apartment that the landlord was so desperate to rent he offered me two months free rent if I'd take it, and two more if I'd stay 2 years. The area was bleak, with major crime issues. I befriended everyone on my block-- spent years getting milk for my elderly neighbors, fixing curtains for another, and they'd keep an eye on my bike. Another neighbor and I helped a former war vet with his shopping and care of his wife.
Over 20 years my neighborhood has turned into one of the priciest areas in NYC...a lot of my neighbors had to go, due to greedy landlords. Our building has remained, and we still help each other, support each other, eat together sometimes. New neighbors won't even talk to us....they come and go within a year or two.
Imagine all of NY so transient and cold...what a sad vision for a vibrant city!
If keeping NYers and families in their homes after years of investing their time, money and love into a community and city is madness, then call me crazy.
I am one of the awful tenants you describe-- I live in a stabilized unit, never served in the military. But I did move into an apartment that the landlord was so desperate to rent he offered me two months free rent if I'd take it, and two more if I'd stay 2 years. The area was bleak, with major crime issues. I befriended everyone on my block-- spent years getting milk for my elderly neighbors, fixing curtains for another, and they'd keep an eye on my bike. Another neighbor and I helped a former war vet with his shopping and care of his wife.
Over 20 years my neighborhood has turned into one of the priciest areas in NYC...a lot of my neighbors had to go, due to greedy landlords. Our building has remained, and we still help each other, support each other, eat together sometimes. New neighbors won't even talk to us....they come and go within a year or two.
Imagine all of NY so transient and cold...what a sad vision for a vibrant city!
8
The developers are turning New York into Hong Kong - ruining neighborhoods at every turn. Shame, shame on the politicians who sanctioned the permits permitting construction to run ram-shod over citizens trying to maintain a decent way of life in a home they can afford.
Homelessness is a HUGE crisis country wide, not just here in New York. We are in trouble folks!
Homelessness is a HUGE crisis country wide, not just here in New York. We are in trouble folks!
But you don't explain why your landlord and the rest of us taxpayers should subsidize your apartment costs?
Blacklist should be illegal. There use a fine, that goes up with each violatin: Un paid fines attach to the tax bill, and unpaid tax bill not be postponable. The land lord blacklist is a monopoly in commones. A tyranny of the worest kind. A poeverty and homelessness maker. This is an issue that will quickly sort out political loyaliisties,
The City Council could outlaw rental broker fees, which would help level the playing field between landlords and tenants, but they don't. Perhaps they are beholden to landlords, too.
This makes no sense given that the majority of broker fees are actually paid by Landlords and not tenants. This insistence that certain high demand neighborhoods in Manhattan is indicative of the entire NYC rental market in all 5 borough is just continued madness that drives poor policy. The problem with the City Council is that the greater body lacks true experience, knowledge and understanding about the the housing market, real estate finance and the leasing market. As does RentLogic.
I actually raised this issue at a recent community meeting. The council person's response was to refer me to the household services board. That person's response was to say that the board will remove tax subsidies for non-compliant property owners after a certain number of complaints. Criminal complaints are weighted more heavily while other violations proceed through court arbitration.
When asked specifically what action would be taken against the delinquent property owner, the representative responded by saying they would remove a $324 tax subsidy per unit and potentially seize personal assets. I politely explained that, according to county record, the property was owned by an LLC and therefore the owners are protected against personal liability. So, the only penalty is the removal of a tax incentive. The next question was: what stops the landlord from passing that penalty onto other tenets rather than resolving the underlying issues? The young woman didn't have an answer.
On the other side, I've shared buildings with smokers and pet owners where the lease explicitly states "no smoking" and "no pets". However, the legal onus is on the landlord to prove the tenant is in violation of the lease. Pets are easier but have you ever tried proving smokers wrong in court? Unless you physically see the person lighting a cigarette, you're pretty much up the creek. Most contracts have a 24 hour clause and odor alone won't stand in court.
This is a bad situation for everyone.
When asked specifically what action would be taken against the delinquent property owner, the representative responded by saying they would remove a $324 tax subsidy per unit and potentially seize personal assets. I politely explained that, according to county record, the property was owned by an LLC and therefore the owners are protected against personal liability. So, the only penalty is the removal of a tax incentive. The next question was: what stops the landlord from passing that penalty onto other tenets rather than resolving the underlying issues? The young woman didn't have an answer.
On the other side, I've shared buildings with smokers and pet owners where the lease explicitly states "no smoking" and "no pets". However, the legal onus is on the landlord to prove the tenant is in violation of the lease. Pets are easier but have you ever tried proving smokers wrong in court? Unless you physically see the person lighting a cigarette, you're pretty much up the creek. Most contracts have a 24 hour clause and odor alone won't stand in court.
This is a bad situation for everyone.
There's a simple way for a prospective tenant to find out about the landlord in a building they are looking at moving into: talk to other tenants in the building.
2
Off topic - but I am waiting for a journalist to cover **my** topic: dynamic pricing for city apartments based on continually changing market rates. Landlords in my city subscribe to a market pricing service that sends them a new set of lease prices for every vacant apartment, every morning. Ditto for lease renewal offers. For example, I renewed for 4 months and got a $200 price increase. Renewing for 5 months, which would have put me moving out in December, would have resulted in almost doubling my rent. 13 month renewal, $13 increase. As for going month-to-month: forget about it! I have the privilege of being able to choose when I move, but many renters get stuck for thousands of dollars because their life circumstances don't align with the rental market.
Years ago, my landlord tried to evict me from my rent-stabilized apartment by charging me an illegal increase that he knew I couldn't pay (I was really poor). Three times he took me to court, and each time I had to take a day off work just to go downtown and hear the judge ask curtly, "Does he owe back rent?" and the landlord's lawyer reply, "No." Case dismissed. (Once while waiting for my case to be called, the lawyer tried to bribe me.) Classic harassment that went on for a decade. And although I prevailed (the landlord gave up trying to overcharge me or evict me, and eventually sold the building to a better human being), I bet I'm still on the tenant blacklist; whereas new renters had no way of knowing what hell they were signing up for when they signed their leases.
This new list is a much-needed corrective.
This new list is a much-needed corrective.
2
3
If landlords are allowed to find out about us we should be able to do the same with them. I have a couple of landlords in my life and it only takes one bad one to make your life miserable. This one didn't bother to fix a leak in the water pipes as he stuck us with the water bill. He didn't replace broken windows but he did laugh when one tenant complained that the window fell on her. He refused to replace a broken refrigerator until he knew it was still under warranty. Whenever we needed something fixed we had to call a number and pray that the right person got the message. Every county should have and provide a list of landlords and their ratings to anyone who asks. If we're going to give up a chunk of money each month to rent we should be able to find out what kind of person the landlord is in terms of keeping things going.
The best landlords are those who take an interest in the place, who want it to look nice, who occasionally come over to see how things are going, and who aren't using the building as a cash cow. The worst are those who buy a place, let it fall apart, and still charge too much.
The best landlords are those who take an interest in the place, who want it to look nice, who occasionally come over to see how things are going, and who aren't using the building as a cash cow. The worst are those who buy a place, let it fall apart, and still charge too much.
1
Renters in Boston are desperate for a service like this. I've recently had to deal with a nightmare of a Brookline landlord who ignores my requests to have things fixed but happily pockets my check each month. Had I only known. These landlords -- and the real estate agents we Boston/Brookline residents must pay a huge commission to simply to find a rental -- need to be held accountable.
1
This is terrible. These pigs make it bad for good landlords. There is enough on both sides to point blame. You sound like a good tenant. Wish I had you.
I heard that landlords are doing non-refundable credit checks that cost less than the charge (e.g. service charge) and doing this for a much larger group of potential renters than they would be needed to rent the property. They are greedy and skimming off the apps.
I heard that landlords are doing non-refundable credit checks that cost less than the charge (e.g. service charge) and doing this for a much larger group of potential renters than they would be needed to rent the property. They are greedy and skimming off the apps.
1
The corporate landlord's creed:
We don't understand why these dishonest, destructive, delinquents complain about living under conditions we would never tolerate while paying percentages of their gross incomes that we would never pay of ours.
We don't understand why these dishonest, destructive, delinquents complain about living under conditions we would never tolerate while paying percentages of their gross incomes that we would never pay of ours.
1
If there is a "blacklist" for tenants, there should be ones for landlords as well. There are a lot of dishonest landlords and building management companies here in NYC. I don't even know who owns the apartment building I live in, all I know is that it's some foreign LLC run by someone with an Arab sounding name....it would be nice to have some transparency, to actual know who I'm paying rent to.
3
I am in Texas where there are no consumer protection laws. Currently the City of Dallas is fighting slum landlord in court and even with all City resources, the City is losing. Tenants are completely helpless. Even in high rent units, landlords can pretty much do what they wish. in Seattle, a progressive, people-minded city, huge property owner/apartment management company , continues greedy, dangerous rental policies in both Washington and California. It is horrible to be at mercy of irresponsible/uncaring/sometimes downright crazy landlord. i wish YELP could incorporate landlord ratings.
3
In the 1920s and 1930s, Seattle was a bastion of socialism. It is now becoming a socialist state within a state. There are greedy landlords, but there are also sleazy tenants. Tenants and landlords in Seattle think they are entitled. The sad thing is that landlords who have terrible tenants are turning on each other. Years ago a landlord could rely on another to speak the truth about a tenant's behavior, actions, cooperation. Now landlords give terrible tenants good recs just to get rid of them.
In my experience (N =107), about 90 tenants are good and reasonable, 10 are neurotic and high maintenance even with good maintenance, and 7 are evil or mentally ill. Such people are diagnosable. They are the same ones who make life miserable for the rest of the world. You know........the tiny % who cause 98% of the world's problems. Unfortunately, landlords are not allowed to give psychiatric tests to tenants.
In my experience (N =107), about 90 tenants are good and reasonable, 10 are neurotic and high maintenance even with good maintenance, and 7 are evil or mentally ill. Such people are diagnosable. They are the same ones who make life miserable for the rest of the world. You know........the tiny % who cause 98% of the world's problems. Unfortunately, landlords are not allowed to give psychiatric tests to tenants.
1
This underscores the need for consumer protection laws in an era where the free market would otherwise seek to obscure the truth and tilt the playing field entirely in their favor.
2
Landlords should be present not he property. I should be a lw. No more absentee landlords. They need to be accountable (just as the renters do). This is a drastic idea but necessary. We need accountability in this society. For some reason we are losing that.
3
The other big mystery is why there is NOT a bad developer list? Why there is NOT a bad management company list? When you reach out to NYC Housing Preservation & Development (HPD) and ask them how they track their developers & managing agents via letter, foil request, phone call they won't respond. Basically, nobody knows. Nobody knows how HPD tracks loan funds to buildings by NYCHDC to year of building, to developer and construction defects.
4
There is no bad developer list since REBNY and the ripoff organization called CHIP refuse to address the shady members they have. Just pay your dues and you can become a member. Who cares how many violations you have on your buildings? What are the metrics to becoming a member of these real estate organizations?
How about shady Tenant Advocacy groups too? They make millions in fees from the City (i.e. The Taxpayer) but no one seems to mind when they squander the money or just plain embezzle it - and still end up on the Worst Landlords List.
As landlords, we keep our rents low to maintain stable tenants, try to help them out if they fall into struggles, my fiance even bakes them cookies at Christmas. Sometimes though we get tenants who aren't so nice, but the law is in their favor. I can imaging the bad reviews they would give us.
5
Right, so it's ok to rate restaurants, hotels, plumbers, dentists etc but oh no, not the landlords! See at this point I'm thinking you're not the totally fabulous landlord that you claim to be. Maybe you're just the paranoid type. I'm wondering just how the law is in the renters' favor, sounds like you have some stories about not so nice tenants, have you reported their actions? Can other landlords access your complaints & choose not to rent to these folks? Why would it be so bad to level the playing field? I used to be a renter, had at least one great landlord, at least one completely horrible one (kind of our fault because it was apparent from the git-go that she was a piece of work but we were feeling desperate) and a number of ok landlords. Would have loved the chance to warn other renters away from Mrs. Fonti -- she actually claimed not to be the owner but she lied.
1
Yikes, chill. I'm not the expert as I've been on the scene only for over a year, but apparently here in Mass it's difficult to evict people who don't pay their rent, that's all.
1
In the rest of the country, if you don't like your apartment you move! Not NYC! There the system is set up like a lottery! If you are connected or just lucky you win an apartment (rent stabilized or controlled) with low rent that is subsidized by the rest of the citizens! And you don't have to prove 'need'. If you don't like the apartment you can without rent without eviction. You can destroy the unit without penalty and then get in line for another one. And tenants wonder why landlords are so strict and little affordable housing is built!
5
Nonsense. You can't just destroy an apartment without penalty.
And if you own your home your mortgage is subsidized by the rest of the citizens when you take a mortgage deduction on your taxes! (Bet you didn't think of that!)
And if you own your home your mortgage is subsidized by the rest of the citizens when you take a mortgage deduction on your taxes! (Bet you didn't think of that!)
Did you read the article? Doesn't seem like you did. I'm pretty sure that when a new tenant moves in the rent goes to market rate so what the hey are you talking about? You're claiming there are no evictions in NYC? Try turning off the Fox Propaganda channel & looking at the real world!
3
As someone who lives in Virginia, not NYC, perhaps you are unfamiliar with how rent stabilization works. Stabilization is NOT subsidized by other citizens and in fact give huge tax breaks tot he landlord.
And there are literally dozens of stabilized places available all the time...just not in areas that are 'popular'. That is the key-- move to a cheap are with affordable housing, even if it isn't glamorous....that's what I did. I guess you want to live in a fancy area for cheap without any investment in community and neighbors? Not everything comes on a silver platter in a big city.
I suggest you work to fix the many MANY issues Virginia has before erroneously trying to 'fix' NYC's housing market.
And there are literally dozens of stabilized places available all the time...just not in areas that are 'popular'. That is the key-- move to a cheap are with affordable housing, even if it isn't glamorous....that's what I did. I guess you want to live in a fancy area for cheap without any investment in community and neighbors? Not everything comes on a silver platter in a big city.
I suggest you work to fix the many MANY issues Virginia has before erroneously trying to 'fix' NYC's housing market.
1
Having dealt with many greedy distant (if I weren't dealing with a management company) landlords in San Francisco for over 30 years, In many instances, I think a guillotine would be a fail-safe measure; more so now than ever
10
See, that's a bit over the top. Makes me think that you were a nightmare tenant. Just like there are nightmare landlords (curse you Mrs. Fonti!) there are also nightmare tenants. Two way street and, for sure, renters should have the same access to data as the landlords have.
A tenant whose ex-husband ruined her credit with a voracious spending habit still has to live with that poor credit score for seven years.
That's bad example, because it MIGHT suggest that the woman makes bad relationships choices that time and time again ruin her finances and credit.
That's bad example, because it MIGHT suggest that the woman makes bad relationships choices that time and time again ruin her finances and credit.
2
That woman MAY not make poor relationship choices. Perfectly good example!
Oh for crying out loud! Putting the word "might" in all caps doesn't save your post from being one of the meanest-spirited posts I've read in a long time. Must be great to be a person who never makes a mistake!
1
The company should start a crowdfunding effort for the service it provides. I am sure tenants will happily provide it with the funding required to obviate the need of funding greed from VC's.
7
What are the odds that Citi Habitats saw the value of their own data and decided they can do the same thing?
2
yeah let's see how quickly they hop on that ;)
2
I doubt that very much indeed. Maybe in Illinois, but in NYC the rental real estate market is a big game of smoke and mirrors, of "no fee" apartments with fees, of fake phone numbers that ring through to different companies, of hilariously mis-described properties.
In every instance that I have rented an apartment in NYC, it has usually been a game of being worn down by the mendacity and renting the least-terrible option.
In every instance that I have rented an apartment in NYC, it has usually been a game of being worn down by the mendacity and renting the least-terrible option.
2
I think more likely they saw that RentLogic was a bust. Bad data, bad marketing and bad business plan.
While I understand the landlords' concern about inaccurate or out of date information, where is the concern for tenants victim to the same blacklisting data?
21
The laws and court behavior concerning tenants and landlords in NYC are weighted heavily in favor of tenants, and there are good reasons for this. The leasing of property constitutes an inherently and wildly unequal power structure that favors property owners. The laws and courts exist to offer some relief from the ugly darwinism of it all.
But laws often come at a cost. Because a non-paying or otherwise troublesome tenant can be kept in residence by the courts for months, landlords do whatever they can to mitigate risk. And the risks are real, especially for small property owners whose financial plans can be laid waste by the actions of a single, uncooperative tenant.
To mitigate the risk, almost all landlords turn to brokerage services, who can screen tenants more efficiently than they can. And why wouldn’t they? It costs them nothing. Imagine a business consultant who shows up at your office, makes all the difficult decisions for you that year, and never sends you a bill. That’s an apartment broker in NYC. Add in the perennially sky-high demand and you have the makings of, in economics 201 terms, a broken market complete with agency problems (the brokers serve the landlords, but their income is from tenants), wildly asymmetrical information (subject of article), and oligopolistic (monopoly-like) traits. The pool of prospective tenants represents ALL of the income into the system, yet holds NONE of the power.
And now you know why they get NONE of the information.
But laws often come at a cost. Because a non-paying or otherwise troublesome tenant can be kept in residence by the courts for months, landlords do whatever they can to mitigate risk. And the risks are real, especially for small property owners whose financial plans can be laid waste by the actions of a single, uncooperative tenant.
To mitigate the risk, almost all landlords turn to brokerage services, who can screen tenants more efficiently than they can. And why wouldn’t they? It costs them nothing. Imagine a business consultant who shows up at your office, makes all the difficult decisions for you that year, and never sends you a bill. That’s an apartment broker in NYC. Add in the perennially sky-high demand and you have the makings of, in economics 201 terms, a broken market complete with agency problems (the brokers serve the landlords, but their income is from tenants), wildly asymmetrical information (subject of article), and oligopolistic (monopoly-like) traits. The pool of prospective tenants represents ALL of the income into the system, yet holds NONE of the power.
And now you know why they get NONE of the information.
14
After visiting the website, I would say that the landlords should be more than grateful for the ambiguous criteria used in rating. My building gets a B-, while if the tenants were actually to evaluate would give it an F! The online data they use (city complaints, HDP, etc) do not deflect a much grimmer reality for the tenants. This website will never mention my landlord's tactic of bullying tenants into paying cash for rent so he can evade taxation, or that it took 2 years and 120 phone calls to 311 for the garbage situation to resolve, and that for only 2 weeks before going back to the same Third World conditions under which the building is maintained. They should shut up about it and be grateful that there is no god to burn most of them alive for the unfairness and exploitation they indulge in.
9
In 1980, the Village Voice published its list of NYC's top worst landlords, with my own Greenwich Village miscreant leading the pack. When I moved in, a few months prior, I saw two bumbling hired "murderers" rushing past me on the staircase, while neighbor John was lying on the second floor, bleeding badly from stab wounds. Thankfully, he lived. A few months later, I was in court describing the attempted murder and my recognition of the culprits as landlord employees. Having located a copy of the prior tenant's lease, I was able (with help from NY State Attorney General's office) to get re-catogorized as rent control and enjoy a hot deal for the next 15 years, albeit one I felt I'd earned.
Recently, when prospective tenants inquired about life in my Sutton Place neighborhood apartment building, I honestly described the millions of mice also enjoying the "luxury" lifestyle, along with the hordes of principal players and extras from the STARZ show "Power" who usurped the lobby and elevators of the building once a month, causing major inconvenience. Of course, the landlord was making a packet on this activity, at tenants' expense. Of course landlords fear RentLogic. They've been off the leash in a strong market for a long time now.
Recently, when prospective tenants inquired about life in my Sutton Place neighborhood apartment building, I honestly described the millions of mice also enjoying the "luxury" lifestyle, along with the hordes of principal players and extras from the STARZ show "Power" who usurped the lobby and elevators of the building once a month, causing major inconvenience. Of course, the landlord was making a packet on this activity, at tenants' expense. Of course landlords fear RentLogic. They've been off the leash in a strong market for a long time now.
19
Were they convicted?
Some useful links:
NYC Dept of Buildings (for complaints)
http://a810-bisweb.nyc.gov/bisweb/bispi00.jsp
Ownership
https://a836-acris.nyc.gov/DS/DocumentSearch/Index
If you don't know block/lot number, click here:
http://a836-acris.nyc.gov/CP/LookUp/Index
NYC Dept of Buildings (for complaints)
http://a810-bisweb.nyc.gov/bisweb/bispi00.jsp
Ownership
https://a836-acris.nyc.gov/DS/DocumentSearch/Index
If you don't know block/lot number, click here:
http://a836-acris.nyc.gov/CP/LookUp/Index
7
Rentlogic is providing the sort of public service that actually could improve living conditions for many more tenants than just those who follow its recommendations. If I were still renting, I gladly would pay a reasonable fee to get a reliable background check on a prospective landlord before I finalized a lease.
A landlord's opposition to objective evaluation is as revealing as a failing grade from Rentlogic.
11
When Republicans began governing New York City under Nutso Giuliani, the move began to "rid" New York City of what made it New York City. The Super Rich, who wear torn jeans, had nothing in their lives so they wanted to think they were "bohemians" and so the plague of Gentrification, otherwise known as Financial Cleansing began and has now destroyed the "fabric" of NYC.
Imagine NYC as a tapestry of many colors and scenes. Now take a torch, as eviction really is, and burn holes in the tapestry where every new luxury building was erected. You can now barely see the tapestry for the burned and empty holes.
Watch an old Lew Ayres "Dr. Kildare flick! THat was the NYC of history and up until the Rich pigs elected, made it an antiseptic playground for the snotty young rich.
Wonder why there is so little talent available today of real essence and scope? No longer can a George Gershwin, Harpo Marx, Irving Berlin, Sidney Poitier or Harry Belafonte live there. Sinatra couldn't grow up in Hoboken. The rich grow tennis players, the Poor grew Art and artists.
Imagine NYC as a tapestry of many colors and scenes. Now take a torch, as eviction really is, and burn holes in the tapestry where every new luxury building was erected. You can now barely see the tapestry for the burned and empty holes.
Watch an old Lew Ayres "Dr. Kildare flick! THat was the NYC of history and up until the Rich pigs elected, made it an antiseptic playground for the snotty young rich.
Wonder why there is so little talent available today of real essence and scope? No longer can a George Gershwin, Harpo Marx, Irving Berlin, Sidney Poitier or Harry Belafonte live there. Sinatra couldn't grow up in Hoboken. The rich grow tennis players, the Poor grew Art and artists.
10
not to worry! There's still Newark and Camden.
All similar rating sites (Yelp, etc) work on the law of averages. One review is indeed meaningless. However 20 reviews where 17 are positive and 3 are negative will give you a good idea the landlord is decent, and the inverse will tell you to stay away. And BTW I'm a landlord now and don't fear this service at all. I just wish I had it when I was a renter, as it would have maybe saved me from at least a few of the psychos and/or crooks I endured.
22
Jason, I think you've just proven that honest landlords have nothing to fear. It's the dishonest and the slumlords who want to make sure prospective tenants stay in the dark.
There are good reasons for landlords "pushing back" at any effort to increase transparency: they have things t hide. I was a tenant organizer in a Massachusetts community with rent control. Landlords were required to file paperwork indicating their costs and expenses as a basis for any rent increase they might want to impose.
One night there was a public meeting of the Rent Control Board attended by around a thousand people. The day before, a whistleblower gave me copies of the landlords' secret filings. I went through them and ended up with a not very surprising AHA! moment. All the forms were scrupulously filled out, and all the itemized costs and expenses seemed entirely reasonable. However, I did something the Rent Board had failed to do: I added up the landlords' own numbers and realized that for many of them, when they listed the total expenses, it was a substantially larger figure than what you got by actually adding the numbers. I do still chortle over the semi-riot that ensued on the part of the landlords when I pulled out the forms and started talking.
Do some tenants act in an unscrupulous manner? Of course? Are some landlords entirely honest, reasonable, and appropriately concerned? Of course. But anecdotal evidence does not make for good policy.
Unfortunately, grading landlords does not help much in a seller's market. By and large, the lack of an adequate housing supply means landlords can be much choosier than can tenants, even the landlords with an F grade.
One night there was a public meeting of the Rent Control Board attended by around a thousand people. The day before, a whistleblower gave me copies of the landlords' secret filings. I went through them and ended up with a not very surprising AHA! moment. All the forms were scrupulously filled out, and all the itemized costs and expenses seemed entirely reasonable. However, I did something the Rent Board had failed to do: I added up the landlords' own numbers and realized that for many of them, when they listed the total expenses, it was a substantially larger figure than what you got by actually adding the numbers. I do still chortle over the semi-riot that ensued on the part of the landlords when I pulled out the forms and started talking.
Do some tenants act in an unscrupulous manner? Of course? Are some landlords entirely honest, reasonable, and appropriately concerned? Of course. But anecdotal evidence does not make for good policy.
Unfortunately, grading landlords does not help much in a seller's market. By and large, the lack of an adequate housing supply means landlords can be much choosier than can tenants, even the landlords with an F grade.
21
It's high time that landlords are held up to the same standard of accountability that most everyone else is. Renters should throw their support for Rentlogic and help it get off the ground.
13
Unfortunately, grading landlords in this manner does not help much in a seller's market. By and large, the lack of an adequate housing supply means landlords can be much choosier than can tenants, even the landlords with an F grade.
There are good reasons for landlords "pushing back" at any effort to increase transparency. When I lived in Massachusetts, I was a tenant organizer in a community with rent control. Landlords were required to file paperwork indicating their costs and expenses as a basis for any rent increase they might want to impose.
One night there was a public meeting of the Rent Control Board attended by around a thousand people. The day before, a whistleblower gave me copies of the landlords' secret filings. I went through them and ended up with a not very surprising AHA! moment. All the forms were scrupulously filled out, and all the itemized costs and expenses seemed entirely reasonable. However, I did something the Rent Board had not done: I added up the landlords' own numbers and realized that for many of them, when they listed the total, it was a substantially larger figure than what you got by actually adding the numbers. I do still chortle over the semi-riot that ensued on the part of the landlords when I pulled out the forms and started talking.
Do some tenants act in an unscrupulous manner? Of course? Are some landlords entirely honest, reasonable, and appropriately concerned? Of course. But anecdotal evidence does not make for good policy.
There are good reasons for landlords "pushing back" at any effort to increase transparency. When I lived in Massachusetts, I was a tenant organizer in a community with rent control. Landlords were required to file paperwork indicating their costs and expenses as a basis for any rent increase they might want to impose.
One night there was a public meeting of the Rent Control Board attended by around a thousand people. The day before, a whistleblower gave me copies of the landlords' secret filings. I went through them and ended up with a not very surprising AHA! moment. All the forms were scrupulously filled out, and all the itemized costs and expenses seemed entirely reasonable. However, I did something the Rent Board had not done: I added up the landlords' own numbers and realized that for many of them, when they listed the total, it was a substantially larger figure than what you got by actually adding the numbers. I do still chortle over the semi-riot that ensued on the part of the landlords when I pulled out the forms and started talking.
Do some tenants act in an unscrupulous manner? Of course? Are some landlords entirely honest, reasonable, and appropriately concerned? Of course. But anecdotal evidence does not make for good policy.
3
So many violations against landlords/buildings are actually the tenants' fault and often the landlord can't do anything about it because he can't control the tenants. Did you know that a landlord can receive a violation if a tenant allows mildew to grow in the shower? Why is it the landlord's fault that the tenant is a slob? And the landlord has to come in and clean it! What about the tenant who repeatedly overfills the bathtub causing water to flow onto the floor and eventually into the apartment below. Peeling paint results in a violation but the landlord can't get the tenant to stop overfilling the tub. And there are tenants who report violations and then don't allow the landlord access to make repairs. How about littering in the hallways? What about a tenant who keeps a flower pot or a mop on the fire escape and the landlord gets a violation for obstructing the egress? Maybe the landlord can tell the tenant to remove these things but he can't force them. I'm sure there are lots of legitimate violations but in an already very tight housing market, providing inaccurate ratings and allowing indiscriminate violations to lower building ratings will result in low ratings for perfectly acceptable apartments, effectively removing them from the market.
6
From my experience, it is usually the landlord that fails to maintain facilities properly. Home Ownership is the best medicine. I am finally moving out, and moving in to my own home. No landlord, no HOA. If things aren't right, I only have myself to blame. In my current facility, getting the landlord to fix the simplist problems is like pulling teeth. They show prospective tenants a "Demo" unit. It is immaculate. But when you move into your unit, you slowly discover the aging infrastructure, and lack of preventative maintainence.
6
Glad to see thing finally going the landlord's way in NYC. The amount of bribes flowing to city officials from the real estate industry is as much a factor in the city's economy as Wall Street.
6
I was sent to South Florida for a 2 year long construction contract where I had to rent a mobile home near the job site. After living there for 4 months I installed internet. While wiring the place for the internet I discovered that the landlord had tapped into the rental and run wiring for cable tv and electricity from underneath the mobile home to his house on the lot behind mine. When I tried to report this to the police the landlord suddenly served me with an eviction notice claiming several wild lies, including that I had moved several people in with me. I counter-filed against this fiend, hand delivering my paperwork to the clerk of court. The next thing that I heard was when a sheriff's deputy showed up and forced me out. Seems like the landlord had also monitored my mail while I was away at work and retrieved any paperwork that the court had sent me concerning this from my mailbox. I had no recourse but to grab what belongings I could throw into my truck in 10 minutes and vacate the property. As a tenant, there was absolutely no remedy for me then. That was in 2008 and I am still affected by it to this day.
29
The problem is that all politics is local, and YOU were not. It's almost never what you know, but who you know.
4
Sounded like a good idea, so I thought I would check my building's listing. Half of the information regarding amenities was completely inaccurate.
7
Any chance the amenities were for one of the model apartments? I've seen landlords and contractors do that quite a bit.
When I lived at 377 Bleecker Street while going to school in Manhattan, we had iffy hot water and scant heat. As a matter of fact, when we broke into the boiler room, the heat was set to go on when it reached 13º. Man those were the most amazing days: How I remember hysterically laughing out loud while reading Pale Fire on the subway.
6
What perfectly awesome idea! I hope this takes off! All over the country. Good luck with this.
17
Transparency is critical. But the key to transparency is accurate information. I know a lot of about NYC housing conditions and landlords and it took me an alarmingly short time comparing building and landlord grades on RentLogic to determine that the information seems to be incredibly INACCURATE. Attorney Himmelstein who is quoted at the end of the article is only half correct. His is right in that Tenants generally don't know how to research building related information. But that information is in fact readily and easily accessible if you take just a few minutes to learn how to study the information. If you would spend time researching a car, laptop or cell phone to buy or to determine the best school your children should attend, figuring out how well a building is run is actually much easier to do - just from the information available on NYC HPD's website. But RentLogic appears to summarize older, stale information that seems poorly updated and then misrepresents it with a grading system that does not appear to be consistent from building to building. The idea is commendable and needed, but in my opinion, it's nothing more than a gimmick design to attract eyeballs in the hope of luring brokerages like CitiHabitats to pay lots of money to partner with RentLogic in order to gain access to unsuspecting tenants and, as Yale Fox has admitted in print, to lure in the really big, high paying fish: the City of New York.
4
can you possibly supply links on NYC HPD that lead to valueable information. I went to that site and got no where looking up a building i lived in at one time. It's a big site, with lots of options/links. thanks.
3
Yikes, this comments sections feels like a snake pit. My rental experiences have been good, for the most part. I've always looked for my own place, and looked carefully. I'm responsible. Never trusted angencies. And this one sounds like "just another ripoff" who doesn't do their homework, and charges you for it.
New York City is very unlike Seattle, unfortunately.
13
That's true. So I've heard. Seattle is however, quickly doing its best to screw things up as well. We now have mandatory inspections. There's a city fee(tax), then an inspector must be hired(more money). Of course I'll be the one paying for it in the end, on top of what's already outrageous rents. I'm sure there's some dumps somewhere(that need regulation), but my place is alright and I have no complaints. I'm clean and pay my rent on time. When something breaks, my landlord is pretty good about being on it. But the city says different. We're all ffffff! My landlord says after taxes, mortgage, insurance, and maintenance, the extra hassle aint worth it and will sell in two years. Great! One less rental available.
as a broker, I've represented owners wishing to rent their apts. I have always shared as much information to tenants about owners, as I have the reverse. Many owners are out of the country, and need as much background as possible. It is the job of an experienced broker, to offer advice to 'both' landlord and tenant. To date, it has been a win / win for both parties.
7
There's a couple of ways to make the playing field more level for would-be tenants: 1. Real estate agents should make tenants aware that they can represent them, not only landlords, in the same way that agents can represent buyers, not sellers. This representation would legally obligate agents to put tenants needs first. 2. Whether an agent represents a tenant or landlord, he or she could be required -- with a change in real estate licensing law -- to make the tenant aware of the availability of a RentLogic report, for a reasonable fee, say, $25. The report would be like a CarFax report for apartments, providing useful information before the deal is signed.
12
It is an obscene abuse of power and hugely unjust that it's legal for landlords to ever know about tenant victories in court and can blackball them on that basis- even if it was for a single day- let alone into perpetuity. This is medieval and denies tenants of meaningful due process- there might as well not be a court to turn to. It is nauseating that such conditions exist in America.
Tenants are the serfs of the system- I am glad I am not an NYC tenant.
Tenants are the serfs of the system- I am glad I am not an NYC tenant.
51
Oh come on. Landlords want to know if you have the means to pay your rent, the discipline to pay your rent on time, and you don't abuse the property or cause trouble for your neighbors. How is that an obscene abuse of power or hugely unjust?
Sure, there are lousy landlords - stand outside the building and talk to the people who live there. They'll tell you.
But there are also lousy tenants. And they don't just make things bad for the landlord - they can mess up the lives of their neighbors, too.
Sure, there are lousy landlords - stand outside the building and talk to the people who live there. They'll tell you.
But there are also lousy tenants. And they don't just make things bad for the landlord - they can mess up the lives of their neighbors, too.
6
Credit history is _a_ predictor, but it is not the _only_ predictor of future behavior, particularly for the young coming out of college and getting started. I've lived in a college town for a very large university going on 10 years and the housing is such it either caters to the broke undergrad or well earning professor; everyone else commutes in from bedroom communities. The landlords know the market overturns every year as 10,000+ new students come in, but first years live on campus so about 32,000 live in nearby apartments. For that demographic, it's a pure numbers game with the landlords (rock bottom prices, 3 or 4 in an apartment, minimal maintenance. They withhold security deposits, claim non-existent damages, and tack on charges. Some landlords will file a certain number of small claims, and the student leaves without knowing about the suit or taking it seriously. Then they move to Chicago, NYC, SF, Seattle and the court filing shows up on their credit record when they try to move into an apartment in that city. Rather than try to fight, they'll pay off the landlord and their lawyers. The city council members and mayor often get their campaigns bankrolled by landlords, so "changes" end up being symbolic and don't have any teeth to enforce codes.
Rentlogic is doing the right thing. Having a landlord who will not get rid of roaches, repair a leaky roof or window, or who will freeze tenants out if they think someone else will pay more is a miserable thing. Amazing, too, that landlords demand absolute transparency from tenants while keeping their own records hidden. Having a good landlord is as important as having a good tenant - both sides should know what they are in for.
I hope prospective tenants stay away from Citi Habitats -- it is insulting to say that some of the information on landlords might be inaccurate, while believing everything learned about a tenant is God's own truth! It tells you which side Citi Habitats is really on, and that is not good news for any tenant searching for a decent place to live.
I hope prospective tenants stay away from Citi Habitats -- it is insulting to say that some of the information on landlords might be inaccurate, while believing everything learned about a tenant is God's own truth! It tells you which side Citi Habitats is really on, and that is not good news for any tenant searching for a decent place to live.
11
Just remember that the landlord and real estate classes in New York own the Mayor, the City Council, the Governor, the zoning commission and on and on.
25
For as long as I can remember - and I've lived in NYC for 40 years now - Citi Habitats has been a broker for apartments and buildings whose quality falls within the grades of C+ to B, max. They've been pushing apartments, owned and/or managed for minor league slumlords/managing agencies, that often barely meet minimum levels of the City's Housing Maintenance Code. That Citi Habitats would buckle under landlord pressures is no surprise, and that Rentlogic would use Citi Habitats ratings as a guide for its listings gives me cause to doubt the usefulness and veracity of its listings.
27
This would be a good idea if the information were accurate....it's not.
It's too easy for a tenant to make a complaint. Inspectors who have not placed a violation on a building in years feel compelled to write a violation just because the tenant is standing there. LL are not able to be present during the inspections.
Violations can easily be a false view of a building/landlord and need at least some investigation before they are used for this purpose. The mere placing of a "housekeeping" violation is meaningless.
It's too easy for a tenant to make a complaint. Inspectors who have not placed a violation on a building in years feel compelled to write a violation just because the tenant is standing there. LL are not able to be present during the inspections.
Violations can easily be a false view of a building/landlord and need at least some investigation before they are used for this purpose. The mere placing of a "housekeeping" violation is meaningless.
6
It's an interesting idea. However, there is already Yelp. Where I live, individuals are increasingly reviewing large apartment companies in the area and offering warnings of poor business practices.
3
I keep hoping a Yelp type website for rental properties will come to San Francisco. We're all adults. My primary physician gets trolled on Yelp even though he's done a fine job of keeping me alive for 30 years, but it doesn't bother him.
It's the general pattern of reviews that affect our opinions -- not the outliers. My business would benefit if the views of my tenants were available to prospective renters.
It's the general pattern of reviews that affect our opinions -- not the outliers. My business would benefit if the views of my tenants were available to prospective renters.
3
You people complaining about NYC laws - move down here, anything goes. Can be evicted for any reason. Even if the place is condemned, no defense to not paying. There's one or two weak laws on the books; when push comes to shove, you'd have to post a huge bond, etc. A joke. Most places have no building regulations, and the corruption is endemic where there are "regulations".
4
Agreed. Just because its fly over country doesn't make it a renters paradise.
That said, Ive never seen anything like paying 500$/month to literally rent a crawl space. NYC is a very grand place indeed (if you have the money)
That said, Ive never seen anything like paying 500$/month to literally rent a crawl space. NYC is a very grand place indeed (if you have the money)
3
Man, ain't that the truth. Raised not far from Springfield myself. I rented a few years ago in Jeff City. Pure slum lord tactics. I don't think I could ever lived in the south again.
1
New York landlords tend to be a tribe of especially avaricious capitalists and parasites, and it will be tough to knock them down to size.
However, these problems are ubiquitous in American society.
Just as landlords conceal their wrongdoing and negligence, Hospitals and doctors suppress information about their malpractice to prospective patients. And when we go to the pharmacy, we are told to sign our names on a screen, electronically, but we can't see what our signatures our attesting to. And doctors write "scholarly" articles recommending certain meds because big pharma has just bought those docs. And we are all told to herald globalism, and are told that only primitives believe in the nation state, but more and more drugs are entering this country, from India and China, which are not subject to proper safety controls. The TPP will only exacerbate matters.
Some of us have been around the block too many times. We know the system is rigged.
However, these problems are ubiquitous in American society.
Just as landlords conceal their wrongdoing and negligence, Hospitals and doctors suppress information about their malpractice to prospective patients. And when we go to the pharmacy, we are told to sign our names on a screen, electronically, but we can't see what our signatures our attesting to. And doctors write "scholarly" articles recommending certain meds because big pharma has just bought those docs. And we are all told to herald globalism, and are told that only primitives believe in the nation state, but more and more drugs are entering this country, from India and China, which are not subject to proper safety controls. The TPP will only exacerbate matters.
Some of us have been around the block too many times. We know the system is rigged.
17
Great idea . Best way to do this is to set up a website with fair and accurate ratings. each building could be rated nationwide, however tenants would have to supply proof that they are living there, if they ever had a legal dispute, and who the actual owners of the building are. Some buildings in NYC are owned by companies that own thousands of apartments. Also the buildings should list the number of rent stabilized apartments that are in each building, for many people are unaware that the apartment they are renting is actually a rent stabilized apartment. So many things are overlooked in NYC, for the landlords have controlled NYC politicians for years who look the other way. Maybe a law should be passed in NYC that no one company , individual, partnership , LLC can own more then 1000 apartments for if a group of 20 entities each own over 5000 to 20000 apartments an oligopoly is formed and prices are controlled by this oligopoly not free market forces. For iN NYC that is the current situation for the last fifty years. a few real estate owners control the supply of apartments and the price charged for these apartments. Please list the top twenty rental landlords and how many apartments they own. A new law should be passed to control the power of this Oligopoly by limiting the amount of real estate any one entity can own. I think Lefrak controls 20,000 apartments. there are twenty more just like this and twenty that add up to controlling tens of thousands of apartments.
6
The only reason for the rents being as high as they are in NYC is that there is an endless number of people wanting to move there and pay whatever the landlord wants. It has nothing to do with rent regulated apartments it only has to do with the greed of the landlords and the stupidity of people willing to sell their soul to be New Yorkers. Nothing will stop the greed of the landlords but maybe someday everyone who wasn't born in NYC will wake up an realize that they can move away to another place that is easier to live in and everyone will win except the landlords.
Given that NY's rental laws grossly favor tenants they need to be vetted much more carefully than landlords. Tenants can just leave if they want. Try getting rid of a tenant if they don't want to leave.
12
If you're a tenant in New York, and you ask your landlord to let you out of your lease - they'll more than likely say no. Eventually, they may let you leave but will keep your security deposit and upfront rent. On a $4,000 apartment (Average in NYC), that's 2 months rent + security or $12,000.
Most renters can afford to forfeit that kind of money and will endure their building until their lease expires.
Most renters can afford to forfeit that kind of money and will endure their building until their lease expires.
7
Let's see $12K vs. the value of an apartment in NY. What's the average apartment worth $300K - $500K? Tenants need be vetted more carefully because they have next to nothing to loose vs. the landlord.
This is a great idea that should be nation-wide. In Santa Cruz County rentals are impossible to come by and outrageously priced because of it. And horrible greedy creepy landlords abound in our area!!
14
Sounds like landlords would love to discourage people from living in rent control/stabilized apartments and would compete to be on the Blacklist.
Seriously if there is a Blacklist it should be for every single renter in an apartment controlled by the archaic rent guidelines put in after WW II for returning vets. So unless a tenant fought in WW II or was married to a Veteran what are they doing in these subsidized apartments. Shame on these greedy tenants who pay less for rent than many pay for monthly parking spaces. Man up and pay market rates like everyone else. And if you can't afford market rate rents just move.
Seriously if there is a Blacklist it should be for every single renter in an apartment controlled by the archaic rent guidelines put in after WW II for returning vets. So unless a tenant fought in WW II or was married to a Veteran what are they doing in these subsidized apartments. Shame on these greedy tenants who pay less for rent than many pay for monthly parking spaces. Man up and pay market rates like everyone else. And if you can't afford market rate rents just move.
10
John Smith, you sound exactly like a landlord. And you're ignorant of the laws governing rent-stabilized apartments in NYC.
17
It's NYC. If you don't like the apartment, someone else will snatch it up.
Supply and demand.
Supply and demand.
6
That's right, but if you have a choice between an F-rated building for $4000 or an A-rated building that looks nearly identical, and is across the street for $3000 which would you choose to live in?
3
Rentlogic.com is as credible as the background check websites you find through google to find out if your date is a convicted felon.
5
I don't see how anyone can argue this isn't necessary. Vast numbers of buildings are owned by anonymous LLCs, and given the hard sell ("We have 10 other people lined up to sign this lease"), tenants almost never know what they're getting into when they view an apartment.
How anybody can argue against more consumer information is beyond me.
How anybody can argue against more consumer information is beyond me.
58
You're right about all the LLCs -
https://files.acrobat.com/a/preview/06a11ea4-aef6-4b9e-b5e1-2f89e1ec53b9
https://files.acrobat.com/a/preview/06a11ea4-aef6-4b9e-b5e1-2f89e1ec53b9
3
Let's see if our esteemed NYS AG jumps on this opportunity to support transparency and fairness in one of the most ugly commercial markets EVER.
8
If you see an apartment you like you can ring some door bells of the existing tenants and ask the existing tenants if they think the property management company is fair and responsive.
12
I have lived in two rental buildings in different areas of Queens over the past dozen years. When I look up my last building, where I had mice, peeling paint and a periodically malfunctioning refrigerator and felt the landlord cared just enough not to be a slumlord but not enough to really take care of things, I see that it has an A- rating on Rentlogic. When I look up my current building, which is carefully maintained with immediate attention to elevator and boiler problems when they occur and where it's clear the management is following the law and trying to do right by the tenants, I see that Rentlogic gives it a C-. This could be an anomaly, but had I seen these ratings before I moved and been scared off of my new building, I might have missed out on moving to an apartment I love and appreciate every day. This makes me question the logic of Rentlogic, to say the least.
24
To me, it only says they need to tweak their methods. Feedback from tenants would probably help a lot.
6
There absolutely should be a landlord blacklist.
43
Consumers are in the dark across the board. We cannot find meaningful information on any of the important expensive relationships we have no choice but to be part of. We cannot find meaningful information on landlords, doctors, insurance companies, dentist, car dealers, and many others.
As for Yelp, oh please, it is loaded with toxic rants from people who clearly have an ax to grind. Clearly stated reviews are rare, finding a consensus of opinion on Yelp is very rare. Though I guess a plethora of rants is a warning sign to heed.
As for Yelp, oh please, it is loaded with toxic rants from people who clearly have an ax to grind. Clearly stated reviews are rare, finding a consensus of opinion on Yelp is very rare. Though I guess a plethora of rants is a warning sign to heed.
30
Sorry but this is an outrage. A tenant is put on the NYC blacklist as soon as their name ends up in Housing Court - even if the tenant WINS. The whole system is rigged to scare tenants from even fighting their landlord in court.
Enough with these disgusting landlords. And shame on Citi Habitats. I hope everyone puts the word out that they are in bed with the landlords. I will certainly never use them again.
Enough with these disgusting landlords. And shame on Citi Habitats. I hope everyone puts the word out that they are in bed with the landlords. I will certainly never use them again.
132
The times also published an OpEd that demonstrates how unfair housing court truly is (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/23/opinion/a-right-to-a-lawyer-to-save-yo...
"Having a lawyer makes all the difference. When tenants represent themselves in court, they end up being evicted almost half the time. With a lawyer, tenants win 90 percent of the time."
90% of the time they win, which implies that there may be a LOT of frivolous law suits brought amongst tenants as a way to evict them.
Want to know how much Housing Court costs the Taxpayers? 200,000 cases per year with an average cost of $20,000 per case (Judges need to be paid, bailiffs, court stenographers, people miss work).
That's $4 billion dollars alone, so lets say 50% are frivolous as a conservative estimate. That's $2 billion dollars in damages per year that all fall on the taxpayers, and this does not include the social / emotional damages.
"Having a lawyer makes all the difference. When tenants represent themselves in court, they end up being evicted almost half the time. With a lawyer, tenants win 90 percent of the time."
90% of the time they win, which implies that there may be a LOT of frivolous law suits brought amongst tenants as a way to evict them.
Want to know how much Housing Court costs the Taxpayers? 200,000 cases per year with an average cost of $20,000 per case (Judges need to be paid, bailiffs, court stenographers, people miss work).
That's $4 billion dollars alone, so lets say 50% are frivolous as a conservative estimate. That's $2 billion dollars in damages per year that all fall on the taxpayers, and this does not include the social / emotional damages.
8
I've often wondered this myself...in this day and age where everything is reviewed, why is there no info on landlords? The information exchange should go both ways...if LL's get to know everything about me, why can I not learn anything about THEM? For example, if an NYC tenant wants to get a sense of how often their landlord might raise their rent, and to what degree, they can only see the apartment's rental history AFTER they've already signed a lease. The NYC rental board (or whatever it's called) will only release such information to you if you are the legal tenant with an active lease. So what that means is you can only learn your landlord's M.O. re: lease renewals, AFTER you've already moved in.
Let's face it...there are lots of sleazy LL's in NYC. It's only fair we tenants should get to know more about them. I DO get however that some tenants may give their LL's bad reviews esp if they themselves were kicked out, say due to damages the tenant caused, not paying rent on time, etc. But the more reviews there are for a LL, the more prospective tenants can look for 'patterns' in the reviews. If one particular LL has mainly negative reviews, it would stand to reason they are valid, and not the result of an 'inordinate' amount of bad tenants simply leaving 'revenge' reviews.
Let's face it...there are lots of sleazy LL's in NYC. It's only fair we tenants should get to know more about them. I DO get however that some tenants may give their LL's bad reviews esp if they themselves were kicked out, say due to damages the tenant caused, not paying rent on time, etc. But the more reviews there are for a LL, the more prospective tenants can look for 'patterns' in the reviews. If one particular LL has mainly negative reviews, it would stand to reason they are valid, and not the result of an 'inordinate' amount of bad tenants simply leaving 'revenge' reviews.
40
It's easy enough to google some LL's by corporate name. To find out about the landlord who does business as "9300realty.com" just google the phrase "9300 Realty reviews", for instance, and see what you find!
4
I think it might be okay if a few tenants who were rightfully evicted but feel aggrieved put their landlord on the list, as tenants who rightfully complain and win in housing courts are on the tenant blacklist.
1
A listing of tenants would be nice -
4
A simple way to keep minorities out without seeming to discriminate is to require annual income at 50 or more times the monthly rent, which very few can meet, and to ignore those requirements for 'desirables'.
23
40x the monthly rent (which is the industry standard you meant to say) equates to 30% of your gross income (1 month x 12 months/your income). That is a very standard and smart ratio for a creditor (which your landlord is) to determine your ability to meet the financial obligations you are committing to. Or is credit worthiness discriminatory too?
8
So the run down places that cater to the poor are dirt cheap? Nope - almost as expensive, if not moreso, yet run down even worse. The poor always pay more in the end.
6
Teachers can't afford that, either. Nor can police officers or firemen or any of the city workers who have solid, steady income and who make up the fabric of New York.
I rented an apartment on the Upper East Side for 1.5 years, and in that time there was no hot water at ALL at least 50 percent of the time. The landlord did NOtHING to fix the problem. It was a charming street and the rent was cheap for the neighborhood (you get what you pay for!), but I'd love the world to know about this man. (BTW, calls to 311 nearly every day did not help). No one should have to go through something like that!
93
So what's his name?
3
wait - you enjoyed the fact that it was cheap enough in a charming street for you to stay there for 1.5 years - and now you say no one should have to go through something like that ?
which part - the cheap enough in a charming street to stay there ?
which part - the cheap enough in a charming street to stay there ?
3
You're absolutely right. #311 calls don't help and it's because the incentives are all off. Here's an example:
There's mold in a building, a mold remediation job could cost $50,000. Every time a tenant complains, and the city sends an inspector who verified there is indeed toxic mold - they get a fine for a few hundred dollars. It's cheaper to pay the fines thousands of times over, than it is to fix the Mold. Additionally, there's little enforcement from the city to actually pay the fines once they are issued.
There are $1.5 Billion dollars in unpaid fine right now because they truly are considered a laughable offense or cost of doing business at best.
Imagine what the city could do with that money?
There's mold in a building, a mold remediation job could cost $50,000. Every time a tenant complains, and the city sends an inspector who verified there is indeed toxic mold - they get a fine for a few hundred dollars. It's cheaper to pay the fines thousands of times over, than it is to fix the Mold. Additionally, there's little enforcement from the city to actually pay the fines once they are issued.
There are $1.5 Billion dollars in unpaid fine right now because they truly are considered a laughable offense or cost of doing business at best.
Imagine what the city could do with that money?
9
A useful resource for New Yorkers is the "100 Worst Landlords in New York City” (http://advocate.nyc.gov/landlord-watchlist/worst-landlords). It's compiled by the Public Advocate for the City of New York and contains an interesting list: residential landlords who have managed to rack up numerous HPD violations or open DOB complaints. The landlords are then ranked according to the number and severity of the violations and complaints. One’s presence on that list might give a potential renter pause.
66
"page not found" when following your link
5
that list is incredibly inaccurate as they are comprised of HPD and DOB complaints that are often incorrect and outdated (broken faucet for 1985 anyone?). Further both agencies have been plagued by corruption scandals year after year that leave them without any credibility.
4
just remove the final ")" in the URL...
2
Why is it that Landlords have such power when it is the renters who
are paying ?
are paying ?
55
I think it is called supply and demand. And as long as those who have a vested interest in keeping things the way they are have the most influence (over supply and demand), things will not change.
This is pretty simple. Same in every large city.
This is pretty simple. Same in every large city.
2
Ah, Idaho...home to a million and a half people. Learn some economics and think a bit.
6
Here's an idea: move to France. I own three rental properties. let me rephrase that, I used to own three properties; since I rented them, the tenants own them, I just pay all the bills and collect rent when its paid. PS: all three are now for sale.
4
Given the lack of vacancy, I think most tenants are amazed there IS an apartment for rent.
The brokers represent the Landlords ? Say it isn't so.
Sadly, as ever, those with some means have choice and the landlord has to be somewhat responsive. So-called affordable housing ? That is WHY we need HPD to regulate them.
The brokers represent the Landlords ? Say it isn't so.
Sadly, as ever, those with some means have choice and the landlord has to be somewhat responsive. So-called affordable housing ? That is WHY we need HPD to regulate them.
24
The vacancy rate is interesting. It is indeed low, but not that much lower than other cities nation-wide or internationally. Additionally, the apartment turnover rate is very high in New York. I believe that the two offset one another.
If you see an apartment you like, some brokers are incentivized to say, "you should take it right away" which I believe is more of a sales tactic to convey a sense of urgency rather than an accurate reflection of the situation.
If the apartment goes off the market, a new almost identical one comes ON the market the same day.
If you see an apartment you like, some brokers are incentivized to say, "you should take it right away" which I believe is more of a sales tactic to convey a sense of urgency rather than an accurate reflection of the situation.
If the apartment goes off the market, a new almost identical one comes ON the market the same day.
1
Yale, you seem to have an analytical problem. The vacancy rate matters. If there are very few apartments available, it does not matter if one is rented and replaced by another. What matters is the number of apartments available relative to demand.
4
This is very interesting - it is obviously filling the gap for publishing crowd-sourced reviews about local businesses.
It should have a catchy one-syllable name.
Amazing that no one thought of that before.
It should have a catchy one-syllable name.
Amazing that no one thought of that before.
7
Why wouldn't renters simply use Yelp? In Dallas, most rental buildings are in Yelp. Maybe NY is different for some reason.
6
Perhaps other's experience with Yelp for NYC and NY landlords is better than mine. There's little data and generally only A's or F's (1 or 5 star) ratings for same landlord/management company.
4
Because we're talking about actual violations and registered complaints, not whether some Yelper doesn't like the color that the halls are painted.
17
Not all rentals are in 'rental buildings' managed by professional companies. Many rentals have private individual landlords or small in-house management companies, so there's no way Yelp could possibly have listings for all such individuals. I agree that a special website dedicated to landlord reviews, by city, and then by landlord or management company name, would be useful.
11
Citi Habitats pulling out of the deal just goes to show that even though the renter is paying the broker, the broker is not representing the interests of the renters.
If rental vacancies weren't so low thanks to the tight housing market and lack of supply, it would be much harder for bad landlords to slide by. But that's really an issue with rent-control laws (which we should really abandon because they are counter-productive).
If rental vacancies weren't so low thanks to the tight housing market and lack of supply, it would be much harder for bad landlords to slide by. But that's really an issue with rent-control laws (which we should really abandon because they are counter-productive).
38
@JB: No, it's really an issue with scummy developers who buy a building KNOWING that it contains many rent-stabilized tenants, and those developers do everything they can to "empty" the building so they can "renovate" and raise the rent sky high. THAT is what's counter-productive.
I live in a neighborhood where I watch this process play out over & over again, including in a building immediately next door to me - legal residents were harassed out, and the scummy landlord is now renting questionably "renovated" apartments for astonishing sums of money. The tenants are mostly transients: students just graduated from college who stay a year or two living with 3 or 4 roommates in one of these overpriced apartments, and who have no interest in being good neighbors. THAT is what will destabilize a neighborhood very very quickly, and we who are long-term residents (with roots here & a genuine concern for the area) are now a minority, surrounded by young people who are really "just passing through".
And just about every re-developed building now has a "party roof" which is heavily advertised, b/c the very "entitled" renters decide THEY wanna party until 3am on the roof with the sound blasting.
I live in a neighborhood where I watch this process play out over & over again, including in a building immediately next door to me - legal residents were harassed out, and the scummy landlord is now renting questionably "renovated" apartments for astonishing sums of money. The tenants are mostly transients: students just graduated from college who stay a year or two living with 3 or 4 roommates in one of these overpriced apartments, and who have no interest in being good neighbors. THAT is what will destabilize a neighborhood very very quickly, and we who are long-term residents (with roots here & a genuine concern for the area) are now a minority, surrounded by young people who are really "just passing through".
And just about every re-developed building now has a "party roof" which is heavily advertised, b/c the very "entitled" renters decide THEY wanna party until 3am on the roof with the sound blasting.
14
I'm glad you brought this up! This is often referred to in the industry as "working a building" - where landlords use a variety of tactics to illegally evict tenants so they can spike rents and destabilize apartments.
Take a look at Housing Rights Initiative (http://www.housingrightsny.org).
They investigate these buildings, and rally tenants to form class action law suits. They'll win every time but sadly, this is what it's come down to in New York!
At least it's working: (https://www.dnainfo.com/new-york/20160922/hudson-heights/hudson-heights-...
Take a look at Housing Rights Initiative (http://www.housingrightsny.org).
They investigate these buildings, and rally tenants to form class action law suits. They'll win every time but sadly, this is what it's come down to in New York!
At least it's working: (https://www.dnainfo.com/new-york/20160922/hudson-heights/hudson-heights-...
3
(Not Mark) No one owes anyone an apartment. Cities change all the time, nothing ever remains in stasis. No matter how hard you try nothing is going to stay the way it was when you when were young.
1
Why not Yelp?
3
It's much simpler for a tenant to go to HPD's website. Enter the property address and voila - all open violations, as well as information about past violations and ownership.
15
The problem with tenants potentially only having recorded violations to go by however is that....by the time a tenant/landlord dispute gets to housing court, it is pretty serious and indicates a soured relationship. However, there are also instances where a landlord is simply not very responsive, or doesn't do the nicest job when repainting an apartment, etc. Not necessarily things that would end up in housing court or violations, but things that could affect one's day to day home environment nonetheless. For things such as this, a website where renters can leave such comments would be useful.
I've lived in buildings where, while no serious problems or violations ever occurred, one landlord took extreme care maintaining the building...everything was done in a top-notch manner. He wasn't sleazy and didn't just arbitrarily raise the rent each year, 'just because'.
I've been in other buildings where the landlord is a bit 'slick', raises the rent every year, and where repairs are done as 'patch up jobs', and therefore end up not looking nice, and causing repeated problems down the road, which are handled in the same 'patch up' manner.
I'd much rather live in the former type rental building than the latter.
I've lived in buildings where, while no serious problems or violations ever occurred, one landlord took extreme care maintaining the building...everything was done in a top-notch manner. He wasn't sleazy and didn't just arbitrarily raise the rent each year, 'just because'.
I've been in other buildings where the landlord is a bit 'slick', raises the rent every year, and where repairs are done as 'patch up jobs', and therefore end up not looking nice, and causing repeated problems down the road, which are handled in the same 'patch up' manner.
I'd much rather live in the former type rental building than the latter.
20
Not necessarily the full story - in my old building, none of my neighbors made complaints about the mice problems to HPD. they all tried (unsuccessfully) to deal with the management company themselves.
20
Adeez, very sadly it's NOT as easy as 'you' think it is, as how'd you like to live in a building where the landlord has NOT paid his bills (mortgage $40,000 in arrears, light bill $2,000 behind, gas bill $3,000 behind, building filled with roaches, mice, etc. And the landlord using the rent money to have a house built in Belize), in over 8 years with elderly living in the apartment with NO way out because the rent is only $880 a month?
Or how about living in an illegal dwelling with chopped up apartments (which could not only be "fatal" to the tenants but the fire department as well) and tenants being over charged for rent (with dangerous wiring and even ConEd doesn't spill the beans??) while the landlord lives high on the hog at the tenants expense? While I realize we folks Are Desperately in NEED of housing, it's past time to stop these crooked landlords especially for those who don't know where else to turn for help.
Or how about living in an illegal dwelling with chopped up apartments (which could not only be "fatal" to the tenants but the fire department as well) and tenants being over charged for rent (with dangerous wiring and even ConEd doesn't spill the beans??) while the landlord lives high on the hog at the tenants expense? While I realize we folks Are Desperately in NEED of housing, it's past time to stop these crooked landlords especially for those who don't know where else to turn for help.
11
Keeping the record of who owns what when shouldn't be that difficult. All that information is in a db kept by my city (not NYC, so I can't speak for sure for them, of course). A periodic (monthly) scan of the city db, update the changed records--done. The problem is that some landlords hold each unit or residence under a different LLC to protect themselves. This could make connecting the dots a little more difficult. But keeping the records tied to city property ids should at least give a good history of that particular unit.
15
It should also include details of the owners' credit as well as their home addresses.
77
This is an excellent idea. It's beyond time for landlords to receive the same kind of scrutiny that tenants receive.
143
This is pretty useful - the landlords are making a ruckus about nothing. You can see what the actual complaints are if you click "view raw data." A lot of them are minor. I looked up my former building and was able to reminisce about the February, 2014 water main break, ah good times (not.) One thing that would be even more helpful is if they added 311 noise complaints - though I guess there would be a lot more F grades.
43
I'm glad you find it useful! I just want to clarify quickly that they are not "complaints" - complaints are an indication of upset tenants. These are confirmed "violations" that have all been verified by 3rd party building inspectors that work for the city :)
I wanted to explain a little bit more about how this process works:
A tenant calls #311 and says, "There's no hot water". The first thing the #311 operator says is, "Did you speak to your landlord?" If the tenant says, "No." then they say, "go speak with your landlord." and no complaint is even filed. Therefore every complaint also includes something that you don't see in the data, that a tenant has already tried to get their landlord to fix it but for some reason - it's not getting fixed.
Most people don't want to call #311 and it's usually after speaking with their landlords who don't comply with legal obligations that they reluctantly call the city.
At that point, a "complaint" is issued, and a city inspector comes by a few days later to verify it. The overwhelming majority of the time complaints are confirmed and become violations. Many times, one complaint leads to several violations - for example the tenant calls to complain about a broken water pipe and mold is discovered so violations are issued for both.
One violation is actually a pretty strong indication of landlord neglect, because buildings that have problems that fix them immediately (as the law dictates) don't even make it to #311.
I wanted to explain a little bit more about how this process works:
A tenant calls #311 and says, "There's no hot water". The first thing the #311 operator says is, "Did you speak to your landlord?" If the tenant says, "No." then they say, "go speak with your landlord." and no complaint is even filed. Therefore every complaint also includes something that you don't see in the data, that a tenant has already tried to get their landlord to fix it but for some reason - it's not getting fixed.
Most people don't want to call #311 and it's usually after speaking with their landlords who don't comply with legal obligations that they reluctantly call the city.
At that point, a "complaint" is issued, and a city inspector comes by a few days later to verify it. The overwhelming majority of the time complaints are confirmed and become violations. Many times, one complaint leads to several violations - for example the tenant calls to complain about a broken water pipe and mold is discovered so violations are issued for both.
One violation is actually a pretty strong indication of landlord neglect, because buildings that have problems that fix them immediately (as the law dictates) don't even make it to #311.
6
A landlord list with consequences for those on the list would make sense. In this state of it makes sense, don't do it, and if you do something that makes sense, don't tell anyone.
4
I started doing the research on prospective landlords/management companies. Before renting an apartment in NYC, it's important to check the HPD website for complaints (even though it's excruciatingly slow), the DOB website for building violations and complaints, and the 311 complaint lookup (for any that mistakenly didn't get assigned to the building in the DOB system). Also check Yelp and Google reviews for any horror stories. Street Easy also has reviews or discussions about buildings and landlords.
Also, one time Halstead tried to rent me an apartment, saying my application was in process for over a week, when it turns out the apartment was already rented to someone else before they even showed it to me! Their brokers didn't communicate with each other. It almost led me to have no place to live at the end of my lease. I wouldn't trust their opinion on this.
Also, one time Halstead tried to rent me an apartment, saying my application was in process for over a week, when it turns out the apartment was already rented to someone else before they even showed it to me! Their brokers didn't communicate with each other. It almost led me to have no place to live at the end of my lease. I wouldn't trust their opinion on this.
72
@LP: You wouldn't be the only person who a broker has "strung along", believe me. They just want their commission and they don't care from whom they get it.
3
What I found interesting about the criticism from Halstead, "For example, a tenant might call 311 because the building has no hot water, but missing from that report is a back story where the super rushed to get a plumber on Thanksgiving."
No hot water on Thanksgiving sounds like a terrible way to spend Thanksgiving! If I owned a building and it was Christmas eve and there was no hot water - I would be rushing to get that fixed.
I'm not sure if I deserve a medal for simply doing my job though and fulfilling my legal obligation of providing heat and hot water.
No hot water on Thanksgiving sounds like a terrible way to spend Thanksgiving! If I owned a building and it was Christmas eve and there was no hot water - I would be rushing to get that fixed.
I'm not sure if I deserve a medal for simply doing my job though and fulfilling my legal obligation of providing heat and hot water.
5