Russia along with the genocidal Assad regime has long been targetting hospitals and relief workers and indeed is responsible for the vast majority of civilian deaths in the conflict. It is astonishing how many people in the West including Trump are Putin dupes not realizing that he along with the regime have focused their attacks not on ISIS but on the mainstream Syrian opposition which the US long ago cynically abandoned and is now reaping the rewards of Obama's feckless betrayal of the Arab Spring in Syria, Egypt, Bahrain, and Yemen.
1
The trucks shown in the photo could be from an incident in the past. The photo isn't evidence of any recent bombing of an aid convoy.
2
The Russian must have figure out a bomb that only destroy the paint job and not the frame of its targets. All of the trucks look like it was hit with small arms and then set on fire. The paper thin enclosure over the bed are still entact. Most impressive Russian technology.
3
So will the UN kick Russia out of the UN, take away it's veto power? The UN is a joke of politics, PC, and nationalist agendas. I understand looking out for your country's interests, but PC and politics must be eliminated. That won't happen. Russia is as bad or worse than during the cold war - no democracy, no rule of justice, no checks on Putin's power, and no right to vote in a democratic election. Nothing more than a failed communist regime that the west and UN seem to want to succeed. While it fits a global agenda, it's not tolerable.
1
"The agreement can be salvaged if all sides unite, for now, around a simple and undeniably important goal: Stop the killing. It may be more likely than it sounds."
Jimmy Carter. NYT Oped.
Looking at this week bombings and ceasefire going down the tubes as Assad/Putin always pulls out; do the folks think foreign and regional 'players' would wish for peace at the cost of their geostrategic interests!!!
Jimmy Carter. NYT Oped.
Looking at this week bombings and ceasefire going down the tubes as Assad/Putin always pulls out; do the folks think foreign and regional 'players' would wish for peace at the cost of their geostrategic interests!!!
1
It's a very interesting thing that should be considered. You read a current international news article in say the NYT. Then for some reason you look up that same current news article doing a Google search. What I have found is many listings on different news sites with the same articles, the headings almost word for word. Often there are at least 6, maybe 8. 10 or an unknown number. This is not a scientific study but what it should tell us is that many of these current news articles are coming from only one source. And that may stir some questions in the mind of the readers as to who is gathering the information and spreading it around to the media.
2
Another line in the sand crossed with little action that is in equal proportion to the crime from the UN or the nations of the world..
Assad/Putin/Rouhani have done horrendous atrocities against Syrian folks and they would continue this genocide/mayhem in Syria due to US 'frigid' foreign policy. US has neither the 'muscle' nor the 'moral'/'ethical' stance to combat this cold blooded murder of humanity. US looks for its 'geostrategic' interest of 'greater Kurdistan'/Balkanization of 'middle east' on ethnic/sectarian basis. And Israel would be another winner, though in the short run, in this endless game of death and destruction.
Despicable and erratic behavior by all major 'players'. It would haunt them big time; nature keeps its balance!!!
Despicable and erratic behavior by all major 'players'. It would haunt them big time; nature keeps its balance!!!
1
I don't know how the comments on this article can be given credence as the actual opinions of individuals, given the sophisticated and concerted trolling the Russian government uses to influence the dialog on international affairs. My problem is that I'm sure some of the posts are polished bits of disinformation, I just have no idea which ones or how many.
During the Cold War, we had the luxury of being able to dismiss any "news" coming from Tass, Izvestia or Radio Moscow. No longer, now that the great foggy monster, the internet, enables those with ill intent to subvert any open exchange of opinion.
During the Cold War, we had the luxury of being able to dismiss any "news" coming from Tass, Izvestia or Radio Moscow. No longer, now that the great foggy monster, the internet, enables those with ill intent to subvert any open exchange of opinion.
5
Wow! This never occurred to me! I just happened to be the second commenter on this story, and over the last day I've been watching the comments somewhat faithfully. To me, the original story seemed simple--a lot of aid workers were manning an aid convoy, they experienced some planes dropping bombs on them, a dozen were killed, and a bunch of the survivors told what happened. The article reported that “Witnesses and rescuers said the convoy appeared to have been hit by multiple airstrikes, first destroying trucks and then two more hitting rescue workers as they helped the wounded.” Period. The only detail left was whose planes did this, which this follow-up story addresses. So I’ve been absolutely flabbergasted by the commentators who feel compelled to argue that no, not only were the Russians not responsible, but what the witnesses told the reporters was not what happened at all—it was some kind of ground attack, or one of the trucks blew up, or something, based on things like an analysis of the photos in the article! I mean, what’s the motivation for this doubt and all this kicking goofy dirt in the air? John, you’ve provided a possible answer to that question, which is scary but which could be a partial explanation.
2
We have the tech to ascertain that it was a Russian plane, but we cannot stop our own erroneous assault on Syrian fighters going after ISIS? Sounds like this was payback.
2
OK, the speculation has begun. But, what if it turns out that Russia had nothing to do with it? The jihadis, though, do have a motive for wrecking the ceasefire. Could it possibly be the case that the guys who behead people actually blew up the humanitarian aide convoy. I'm speculating, of course.
5
I frankly don't believe this article. This is nothing but US propaganda.
Even the UN says it was not a plane. The Islamic rebels have missiles and shooting missiles at the convoy sounds more like it.
It is not in Russia's of the US's interest to see the convoy attacked. But it is in the interest in of Islamic terrorist Rebels to see it was attack.
Before you start to point fingers, ask yourself who profits most from this incident == it is the terrorist rebels like Al Nusra who profit.
Even the UN says it was not a plane. The Islamic rebels have missiles and shooting missiles at the convoy sounds more like it.
It is not in Russia's of the US's interest to see the convoy attacked. But it is in the interest in of Islamic terrorist Rebels to see it was attack.
Before you start to point fingers, ask yourself who profits most from this incident == it is the terrorist rebels like Al Nusra who profit.
7
Everything bad that happens in the world that could conceivably be blamed on Russia is a western false flag attack perpetrated because of jealousy at how high Putin's approval numbers are. I know this because I heard it on RT.
5
Michael;
Ask Georgians, Ukrainians, Chechans, Syrians about Putin; he is a ruthless butcher not any different than Assad. RT portrays him as a hero; so many media pundits in the 'west' think of Assad as a 'Messiah' and 'savior'...modernistic/secularist; even after killing more than one million Syrians!!!
Ask Georgians, Ukrainians, Chechans, Syrians about Putin; he is a ruthless butcher not any different than Assad. RT portrays him as a hero; so many media pundits in the 'west' think of Assad as a 'Messiah' and 'savior'...modernistic/secularist; even after killing more than one million Syrians!!!
3
Is it possible that Michael may have been indulging in irony?
5
I'm not even going to try to explain that Russia was not involved at all in this attack, that such theory doesn't make any sense and that, for anyone with any decent knowledge of air strikes, it's blatantly obvious that the convoy could have not been struck by military airplanes, which would have inflicted far more damage than what it is shown in the truck pics, which do not even display any crater and still have their structure, incredibly, largely intact.
But let's just focus on the horrendous journalism standard of the NYT and the Atlantic press.
They rushed to blame Russia before anybody had even started gaining any comprehensive evidence of what actually happened. Scandalously, the article does not even report the easily available information that the UN itself has revised its previous official statement on the attack, eliminating intentionally the "air strikes" reference because, as the UN spokesman said, the UN does not have conclusive information on what has actually happened.
And today, another NYT article, among other things, just throws in the following: "An official from the Syrian Red Crescent Society, which helped organize the convoy, said in an interview with the state-run Izvestia daily that the rebels were responsible for the attack. The official was quoted as saying that there was no evidence that either the Russian or Syrian Air Force had struck columns with humanitarian aid."
Perhaps other NYT reporters may take notice? And these are only two examples.
But let's just focus on the horrendous journalism standard of the NYT and the Atlantic press.
They rushed to blame Russia before anybody had even started gaining any comprehensive evidence of what actually happened. Scandalously, the article does not even report the easily available information that the UN itself has revised its previous official statement on the attack, eliminating intentionally the "air strikes" reference because, as the UN spokesman said, the UN does not have conclusive information on what has actually happened.
And today, another NYT article, among other things, just throws in the following: "An official from the Syrian Red Crescent Society, which helped organize the convoy, said in an interview with the state-run Izvestia daily that the rebels were responsible for the attack. The official was quoted as saying that there was no evidence that either the Russian or Syrian Air Force had struck columns with humanitarian aid."
Perhaps other NYT reporters may take notice? And these are only two examples.
5
You can blame Russia for anything you want they deserve all the blame they can get. Their behavior has been abominable. Are you one of those Putin lovers?
This piece is not about Syria; it is just another piece in the jigsaw puzzle to get Hillary Clinton elected.
Syrian tragedy - blame Russia, who is in cahoots with (fill in the blanks here).
It's so transparent, it hurts.
Syrian tragedy - blame Russia, who is in cahoots with (fill in the blanks here).
It's so transparent, it hurts.
3
My dear friend,
Is there anything resembling to a point contradicting any of my statements in your post?
Is there anything resembling to a point contradicting any of my statements in your post?
President Trump now has a lot of catch up to do. Putin leads on hospital, aid convoy destruction, but rest assured Trump will catch up bombing innocents within his first year. He might have to delay the deportation extravaganza. Either way, the result will be tremendous. Just ask him.
2
As an outsider, I can only say this: with the undoubtedly irrational Trump at the helm, we might still celebrate Christmas 2017; with HRC - I'm not so sure.
Perhaps it's time to realize that the UN is USELESS. Move the building with its spies to Syria. Oh, and America opts-out before the move.
The level of trust and level of tensions between the US and Russia raise the question whether they really can cooperate and help resolve the conflict. Last Saturday, the US-led coalition has erroneously hit the regime forces, killing 60 people, instead of targeting ISIS. Washington apologised. Russia should also apologise too, if the airstrike on the UN aid convoy was either wilful or unintentional. The video showed that Russia was monitoring the convoy. Perhaps it hit after it spotted the “'terrorists’ pickup truck' armed with a mortar behind the convoy, taking collateral damage into account.
5
The Russians put out a statement earlier today, supported with images and data, that a Predator drone was spotted in the area and at the time of the hit.
I am still waiting for the tidbit to turn up in any US paper.
Btw, military experts (not Russians) also challenged the notion of a 'bombing' - even the UN changed the description to 'shelling', primarily, because there is no crater.
As for the Syrian outpost being hit by accident - I don't buy that for a second.
The Pentagon is trying everything to undermine Kerry.
I am still waiting for the tidbit to turn up in any US paper.
Btw, military experts (not Russians) also challenged the notion of a 'bombing' - even the UN changed the description to 'shelling', primarily, because there is no crater.
As for the Syrian outpost being hit by accident - I don't buy that for a second.
The Pentagon is trying everything to undermine Kerry.
6
Why are the aid convoys originating in Turkey instead of Syria in govt controlled areas?
They have a perfectly good port in Latakia. A convoy would only have to cross govt controlled area and then into rebel held Aleppo once instead of going from Turkey, cross rebel territory, Russian/Syrian checkpoints and then into Aleppo. Is this the result of some misguided sanctions?
They have a perfectly good port in Latakia. A convoy would only have to cross govt controlled area and then into rebel held Aleppo once instead of going from Turkey, cross rebel territory, Russian/Syrian checkpoints and then into Aleppo. Is this the result of some misguided sanctions?
5
No one will comment on this from the government… You need to call them directly… Good luck with that.
1
To the people writing comments on this story- WAKE UP- nothing you say or do will have any effect on the war in Syria.You wring your hands and you comment on how terrible this is or that is, or who did what, and what difference does it make.The war goes on, like all the wars, and you can do nothing about it but give your little comments in the Times reader pages.How pathetic this whole mess is.
6
President Obama's refusal to apologize over the attack on the Syrian army combined with his raving address to the UN General Assembly belies his intent to kill the US-Russian ceasefire agreement. The president's Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Gen. Joe Dunford, meanwhile, has come very close to admitting that the Syrian Army was bombed intentionally last Saturday - and may do it again. "Maybe before we start going on a path of 'what went wrong,' let's do an investigation and actually ensure that something did go wrong," he told reporters.. "It may be that ... when you do the investigation, the facts would tell you that we would have done what we did again." The latest atrocity, involving the aid convoy was immediately and inexplicably blamed on Russia by the administration.. But the evidence is quite to the contrary. The Russian Ministry of Defense has maintained all along that there were no Russian or Syrian deployments in the area, but Al-Nusra had launched an offensive in that direction. If we have satellite imagery, bring it forward but as the video shows,the trucks were destroyed by fire sparked by artillery shelling, not aerial bombs. Clearly, the pro-war faction in Washington is bent on confrontation, not collaboration, with Russia.
8
No word from Trump on this. Or Hillary for that matter. Let's hope "Democrat" Lester asks the question "What would you do?" Better yet, put them on the reality show, What Would You Do. That will assure a larger audience of "informed" voters supporting Trump.
1
The American people need to push back on this slow build up to war in Syria and the one-sided reporting in the mainstream media. They need to question the authenticity and exercise critical thinking. And, the NYT and media need to seriously investigate responsibly before reporting based on opinion.
Sad to say the media has reporting down to a science. They know their readers/listeners will not notice or gloss over the words "probably", "may be" responsible, etc. The accusation or idea is then planted in the reader/listener's mind as fact.
It seems every day we are fed at least one article demonizing Russia on the front page of the NYT. We need to question what is the purpose of this propaganda and yet almost no reporting on the disaster in Yemen where schools and hospitals are being bombed and civilians need food and supplies.
Sad to say the media has reporting down to a science. They know their readers/listeners will not notice or gloss over the words "probably", "may be" responsible, etc. The accusation or idea is then planted in the reader/listener's mind as fact.
It seems every day we are fed at least one article demonizing Russia on the front page of the NYT. We need to question what is the purpose of this propaganda and yet almost no reporting on the disaster in Yemen where schools and hospitals are being bombed and civilians need food and supplies.
8
Anyone who would assassinate reporters would bomb supply lines if it served their purpose. This would be Donald Trump's behavior also.
4
Based on Putin's behavior, I would not put it past him to devise a plan to bomb the supply convo and try claim that the USA did it.
While data can be manipulated, radar surveillance cannot be without leaving obvious traces. And if our radar captured Russian fighters in the immediate area just prior to the bombing, the smoking gun is there plain as day.
While data can be manipulated, radar surveillance cannot be without leaving obvious traces. And if our radar captured Russian fighters in the immediate area just prior to the bombing, the smoking gun is there plain as day.
3
Unfortunately for you, my little friend, the exact opposite is true of what you believe and try to sell..
3
Are Russia's weapons so sophisticated that they can bomb a truck from air and you see no explosives, no crater? Just a burned truck? "We believe Russia did it" but sorry no evidence? It looks to me like World Trade Center 7 hit by an airplane and has later collapsed.
At a time where most people get information via Internet our printed media has to write more convincing stories and back it up with photos you can believe in.
At a time where most people get information via Internet our printed media has to write more convincing stories and back it up with photos you can believe in.
6
I don't know what hit the convoy, but napalm does not leave craters.
Of course the convoy was attacked by accident, just like we killed 60+ Syrian troops by accident. It is tit for tat, and if it was not, the white house would have been more vocal about it.
2
The article states, "The strike on the trucks, which were carrying critically needed food and medical supplies bound for rebel-held areas of Syria’s western Aleppo Province, took place shortly after the Syrian military declared that it regarded the seven-day partial cease-fire as over."
We need to understand that the Russians are opposed to the rebels, but the US supports them.
What would a reasonable person think happened under these circumstances?
We need to understand that the Russians are opposed to the rebels, but the US supports them.
What would a reasonable person think happened under these circumstances?
2
The Russians blaming the Americans and vice versa. There's a saying in India that means.. "In the fights between the mighty kings it's only the common people who dies".. Unfortunately its the same in today's world. Hopefully, the Americans should change it's policies and tactics not only in the Middle East but all over the world so that they become less involved in the killings of innocent civilians. Let it be the Gulf War, Iraq War, Libya War, Vietnam War, Syrian War, Involvements in Afghanistan or anywhere in the earth Americans are always involved; maybe for good and for saving innocent lives from some oppressive rulers, but in the end innocent people die and nothing much changes for good.
Its not about criticizing USA's foreign policies but if USA doesn't change it's way of wars then its heading to something like Soviet Russia. I believe President Obama wants to make the lives of the people of this world beautiful but is the American foreign policies abroad working?
People are gradually losing faith in the military policies of USA. Maybe it's time they should revise some of their foreign military policies and get back people's faith like they have in the field of Science, Arts, Internet, Employment, Standard of Living, Secularism, and everything good that USA stands for.
Hope USA's foreign military policies will be a success without involving the deaths of lots of innocent lives.
Its not about criticizing USA's foreign policies but if USA doesn't change it's way of wars then its heading to something like Soviet Russia. I believe President Obama wants to make the lives of the people of this world beautiful but is the American foreign policies abroad working?
People are gradually losing faith in the military policies of USA. Maybe it's time they should revise some of their foreign military policies and get back people's faith like they have in the field of Science, Arts, Internet, Employment, Standard of Living, Secularism, and everything good that USA stands for.
Hope USA's foreign military policies will be a success without involving the deaths of lots of innocent lives.
7
Russia bomb their own plane in the Sinai, so yes, they're cold blooded killers.
Bombed? The trucks certainly look like they burned but they are also all strangely intact. Can we see more photo evidence of bombings, please?
3
We shouldn't even be there and if we weren't the Russians would not be there! It is unfortunate that in order to make the Saudis happy President Obama got involved in a religious civil war that could only end badly for noncombatants....otherwise known as HUMANS!
Peace Prize winner, indeed!
Peace Prize winner, indeed!
4
Once again we go in halfway. It's all or nothing when will our government understand this. Since it is does not make sense to go all in we should get out. All ew have done in the whole area is make a lot of peoples lives even more miserable than before we started this mess.
2
If the US had avoided sending troops and weapons to Syria, and had avoided getting involved in its "Arab Spring", then there would be little question regarding who attacked whom.
"She goes not abroad in search of monsters to destroy." Too bad the sitting POTUS cannot hear words of wisdom.
"She goes not abroad in search of monsters to destroy." Too bad the sitting POTUS cannot hear words of wisdom.
3
This is clearly 'retaliation' for the US airstrike earlier in the week that killed 80 Syrian soldiers. Apparently, the US is claiming it was an 'errant' strike and unintended. But in this absolutely macabre context, no one believes anyone, and why should they? And the horrifying conditions and suffering of the Syrian people will go on as Putin and Obama try to support/remove Assad.
What comes after Assad , US?
I
What comes after Assad , US?
I
4
Some will take every opportunity to bash Donald Trump over his remarks about Vladimir Putin even an inhumane act such as this. the truth is that what Trump was pointing out is simply that Putin is the strong man afraid of nothing and rules Russia with an iron hand while our President Obama is the weak man who can't even identify the enemy and has presided over the middle east war zone for his entire Presidency. He will now wash his hands of it all and hand it over to the next President, more than likely Hillary Clinton, who again will not identify the enemy and vows to have her Presidency as a third Obama term.
Welcome to a permanently destabilized and now a Russian influenced middle east.
Welcome to a permanently destabilized and now a Russian influenced middle east.
You're thinking and trump are the weak link.
Putin is so strong yesterday resort to killing journalist to don't agree with him. Trump would do the same thing.
That's what you call strong?
Putin is so strong yesterday resort to killing journalist to don't agree with him. Trump would do the same thing.
That's what you call strong?
1
I am sorry, but isn't it the US that has the destabilized the middle east with all its invasions and billions of dollars of military support Israel? Russia has just gotten involved in what would seem to be an effort to end this carnage and exert some influence in a region at least as important to its interests as ours, but unless the US meets it's ideological objectives, we can expect the US to continue to arm rebels in the US backed effort to dictate who leads Syria and what their policies are . And exert some influence in a region at least as important to its interests as ours. it appears clear reading the news that the US is behind virtually all of the carnage in the Middle East, but somehow we can still blame Russia.
1
A lot of grave mistakes by both sides. It makes me wonder how much control US and Russian politicians really have over their armies. Considering the objections expressed by Pentagon officials over the treaty, were there any similar objections expressed by the Russian military establishment? It would be useful to know.
1
It hurts me to say this, but unfortunately the US is doing the right thing. Syria is the new battleground in the middle east between the US and Russia. If America withdraws and allows Assad to remain in power, Russia will have a way out to the Mediterranean. It will be Russia-Iran-Syria (and maybe Iraq). America will be left with Saudi and Israel, and that's all. All American blood spilled over the middle east will be wasted. America needs to keep fighting this war for control of the ME. At the same time, we can't allow it to escalate like Iraq. We need to be away from it. Unfortunately, this unresolved situation is the only way for us to succeed against Russia. We must deter them. Finally, my heart is out for Syrian victims. They are the innocents in this high-stakes game.
3
Perhaps this is a "fog of war" incident. We must always consider this as the normal outcome of armed intervention as we decide on sending in the military.
Very doubtful.
1
Fog of war?
There is no fog, power brokers are thinking very clearly.
It's just insanity, people are treated as assets or liabilities, sacrificial lambs, disposable, pawns in some great and crazy game with madmen at the helm.
There is no fog, power brokers are thinking very clearly.
It's just insanity, people are treated as assets or liabilities, sacrificial lambs, disposable, pawns in some great and crazy game with madmen at the helm.
2
Gee, I wonder what Mr. Trump will say today in defense of his mentor (and owner) Mr. Putin.
4
Hopefully if Clinton is elected she takes out Assad and begins clamping down on Putin. If this means war, so be it.
2
It's time to stand up to Putin and Trump. Putin has been flexing his muscles, it's time to slap him down while we still have an advantage militarily. If he doesn't back down now he will never back down.
Yes, like the great job she did in convincing Obama to invade Libya. Are we really so simpleminded that we think we can go into completely different cultures and sovereign nations and bring regime change? How many times do we have to learn the same lesson, how many millions have to die because the US repeats it's callous and self-serving aggression.
2
The Syrian Red Crescent organization, whose leader was killed in the attack, is the official Syrian counterpart for the International Red Cross and is seen by rebels as in league with the Assad government. How credible is it that Russia or Syria would attack deliberately a convoy conducted by the pro-regime Red Crescent?
6
Look at the photos and footage more closely. I don't think this were airstrikes. There would have been much more damage. The trucks are mostly intact and the road is in pretty good shape. Nearby buildings are also undamaged.
5
The mind conjures up recollections of The Bay of Tonkin.
2
"Probably attacked"? Do you make these kind of accusations with "probably"?
4
This is an article about Russia bombing a Red Crescent convoy in Syria. The top rated comments as I write this are all about Trump. Go figure.
5
The sad fact is that I dont trust any reporting anymore. Maybe the Russian attacked the convoy maybe not. Maybe it was attacked from air or maybe not.
UN no longer claim it was attacked from air which is not mentioned in the article.
And maybe US attack who killed 62 syrian soldiers was unintentionally or maybe it was don to stop them from taking a rebel position.
Never has the fog of war been so thick.
UN no longer claim it was attacked from air which is not mentioned in the article.
And maybe US attack who killed 62 syrian soldiers was unintentionally or maybe it was don to stop them from taking a rebel position.
Never has the fog of war been so thick.
5
Russia is PERHAPS responsible for the bombing. Russia is PERHAPS responsible for hacking the DNC. Russia is CERTAINLY the object of a smear campaign by the NYT. What is a journalist supposed to do but investigate whether the info s/he receives from government are correct?
8
Exactly right dear Comrade. I will see you at the GRU meeting in the basement of the Kremlin.
2
The American Air Force / Surveillance People should publish the evidence. Stating where the planes took off from and where they returned to.
2
"You can't fix stupid!" - Ron White
Obama is always trying to make friends and agreements with people who fundamentally oppose him and that is stupid.
House Speaker Boehner, Netanyahu, the Iranians, the Shiite Government of Iraq and now Assad and Putin have all made fools of him because their goals are opposite of his.
Obama is always trying to make friends and agreements with people who fundamentally oppose him and that is stupid.
House Speaker Boehner, Netanyahu, the Iranians, the Shiite Government of Iraq and now Assad and Putin have all made fools of him because their goals are opposite of his.
1
"The US doesn't support ISIS!"
Sure, we just make sure to give their over matched enemies tons of our latest military gear without bothering to care they will capture it and then use it themselves. And repeatedly air drop supplies and ammo to them "on accident". And fail to bomb their oil/gas convoys that are out in the open. And bomb the local hospitals - I mean, there is not a chance THAT could backfire and create a few terrorists...is there???
Sure, we just make sure to give their over matched enemies tons of our latest military gear without bothering to care they will capture it and then use it themselves. And repeatedly air drop supplies and ammo to them "on accident". And fail to bomb their oil/gas convoys that are out in the open. And bomb the local hospitals - I mean, there is not a chance THAT could backfire and create a few terrorists...is there???
2
Wait a second, where's the explosions crater ? I didn't see them in any photo or video of this incident. For my opinion this trucks looks like been torched.
You should just googling picture for "airstrike craters" to thinking that something is wrong with this news (I doubt that many do it, cause not all want to learn the truth or at least open they eyes).
You should just googling picture for "airstrike craters" to thinking that something is wrong with this news (I doubt that many do it, cause not all want to learn the truth or at least open they eyes).
6
Syria is a mess. It's hard to know what to do. The US attacks Syrian military forces and then claims it was a mistake. Now did the Russians possibly get back at the US by attacking an aid convoy? Could be. A lot more serious than a baseball pitcher throwing at a batter's head in retaliation for an earlier infraction, but in the same spirit.
All in all, though, I think Russia is handling Syria better than the US. Assad is far from a perfect leader, but many estimate that about 80% of the population support him, at least as the lesser of evils. People forget that he has done a lot for his country since his father died. Before the current uprising, the country was safe and the many Shia and non-Muslim minorities were not persecuted. Women too had rights.
Now the extremist Sunnis want to take over the country, and impose their version of an Islamic government. Even though most Syrians are Sunni, most are not extremists and would prefer the current government, especially if reformed.
Better to get stability back and then push for reforms, as the Russians are doing, than to continue the civil war and, at best, end up with an Islamic state, possibly even the Islamic State. We Americans are trying to play it too cute -- trying to distinguish between good rebels and bad rebels -- and will likely end up making things worse, as in Libya.
All in all, though, I think Russia is handling Syria better than the US. Assad is far from a perfect leader, but many estimate that about 80% of the population support him, at least as the lesser of evils. People forget that he has done a lot for his country since his father died. Before the current uprising, the country was safe and the many Shia and non-Muslim minorities were not persecuted. Women too had rights.
Now the extremist Sunnis want to take over the country, and impose their version of an Islamic government. Even though most Syrians are Sunni, most are not extremists and would prefer the current government, especially if reformed.
Better to get stability back and then push for reforms, as the Russians are doing, than to continue the civil war and, at best, end up with an Islamic state, possibly even the Islamic State. We Americans are trying to play it too cute -- trying to distinguish between good rebels and bad rebels -- and will likely end up making things worse, as in Libya.
2
Assad is a butcher who uses barrel bombs and murders innocents. What are you even saying ?
1
It has all the signs of "tit for tat", Kremlin style. The US error killed 80 Syrian soldiers over the weekend violating the truce (that the US thought those 80 were ISIS is not going to matter for Assad and the Kremlin now does it) --- and the Russians grab the opportunity to retaliate and maintain pressure on Aleppo -- because that's clearly the driver for bombing aid trucks.
This paper should do a better job of explaining to the public why Aleppo is critical for the various warring parties.
This paper should do a better job of explaining to the public why Aleppo is critical for the various warring parties.
2
In an Op-Ed piece today, President Carter says, "...the United States and Russia must find ways to work beyond the lack of trust that undermined the previous cease-fire...."
Sadly for one's hopes for peace and a resolution to the ongoing horror, the fundamental problem is not merely lack of trust or conflicting desires for control of turf. That is true for some parties, but for others the basic goal is the destruction of their perceived enemies. Not everyone wants to stop the killing across the board.
If we want to truly understand the region and maintain any hope for contributing to a lessening of its violence, we must cease the tendency to view what goes on there through the lens of Western political, social, and moral values.
As to Western values, as the U.S. government has determined that it is, in fact, likely this was a Russian airstrike, it would be fair to ask Donald Trump at the first debate what his reaction is. And, for the moderator to be prepared with follow-up interrogatives if necessary.
Sadly for one's hopes for peace and a resolution to the ongoing horror, the fundamental problem is not merely lack of trust or conflicting desires for control of turf. That is true for some parties, but for others the basic goal is the destruction of their perceived enemies. Not everyone wants to stop the killing across the board.
If we want to truly understand the region and maintain any hope for contributing to a lessening of its violence, we must cease the tendency to view what goes on there through the lens of Western political, social, and moral values.
As to Western values, as the U.S. government has determined that it is, in fact, likely this was a Russian airstrike, it would be fair to ask Donald Trump at the first debate what his reaction is. And, for the moderator to be prepared with follow-up interrogatives if necessary.
2
Told you so.
Bombing an aid convoy. Directly or indirectly shooting down an airliner over Ukraine. Russia has no moral compass. Why is Trump so smitten with Putin?
2
The article's headline says Russia probably attacked the convoy.
Which Russians would that be?
Putin, perhaps? Did local commanders get approval from Putin?
So what Russian military rank gets the blame?
Which Russians would that be?
Putin, perhaps? Did local commanders get approval from Putin?
So what Russian military rank gets the blame?
This looks like a classical false flag operation. Both the Pentagon and the CIA are known as hawks regarding Syria. They are not reliable sources and they have good reasons to divert the attention from their attack on Syrian troops in Deir Ezzor. Just like previously with the sarin attack the story just doesn't hold: there is no benefit for either Russia or the Syrian government in behaving this way. The "Cui bono" question leads straight to the rebels and their foreign backers.
http://nation-building.blogspot.com/2016/09/6-reasons-why-us-bombing-of-...
http://nation-building.blogspot.com/2016/09/6-reasons-why-us-bombing-of-...
4
News of this attack caused me to suspect that the Syrians, or their Russian benefactors, bombed the convoy in retaliation for our killing/bombing 60 Syrians soldiers. In that part of the world, they are suspicious of and consider the UN an extension of US policy in the area. Similarly, they regard the PRESS as intelligence operatives.
All I can do is CONTRIBUTE to the UNHCR or Intn. Rescue Committee or Int't. Red Cross!!
All I can do is CONTRIBUTE to the UNHCR or Intn. Rescue Committee or Int't. Red Cross!!
2
If Russian and Mr. Putin, as head of state, are found to be responsible for the attack, don't expect them to be charged with any war crimes.
We have seen how feckless and feeble other world leaders are when it comes to holding fascists leaders responsible for what they have done.
That the UN and western countries cannot stop Mr. Putin and Mr. Assad of Syria from slaughtering the Syrian people says volume about how ineffectual they have become.
We have seen how feckless and feeble other world leaders are when it comes to holding fascists leaders responsible for what they have done.
That the UN and western countries cannot stop Mr. Putin and Mr. Assad of Syria from slaughtering the Syrian people says volume about how ineffectual they have become.
1
A strike on US-connected activities (such as this convoy) was to be expected after the horrendous slaughter of Syrian conscripts (probably Sunni in large part) by US + UK planes. The US, UN and NGO organizations have since 2011 been providing moral and material support to the Islamic terrorists seeking to destroy Syria. Hard to have much sympathy.
2
All I can say is to the people who did this is - how does it feel to deprive 78,000 people who are in agony, starving to death and dying in excruciating pain from lack of basic medicines the food and the medical care they so desperately need, killing the people who came to their aid?
Does it feel good? Are you proud you did your duty? Is this one for humanity in your sick heads? Do you sleep well at night? Have you told your children? Have you shown them the photos of swollen bellies and sunken eyes, the agony of mothers, fathers, grief stricken powerless to ease their children's suffering or their family and friends pain, lives forever ruined, futures gone. How can you so easily sacrifice other human beings and condemn them to die a slow and agonizing death? What are you? What spawned you?
Does it feel good? Are you proud you did your duty? Is this one for humanity in your sick heads? Do you sleep well at night? Have you told your children? Have you shown them the photos of swollen bellies and sunken eyes, the agony of mothers, fathers, grief stricken powerless to ease their children's suffering or their family and friends pain, lives forever ruined, futures gone. How can you so easily sacrifice other human beings and condemn them to die a slow and agonizing death? What are you? What spawned you?
Oh, our government says Russia did it, but there is no proof. Somehow this all happened and there is nothing said about evidence of who did this, but our government and our wonderful media headline assertions that Russia is responsible. Only one thing is certain, the US is utterly irresponsible.
4
The US bombed the Syrian army by mistake, Russia deliberately destroyed a UN humanitarian convoy.
Just like children, and all these people govern the world.
Just like children, and all these people govern the world.
3
Is there still a world court which prosecutes war crimes? I know there was after World War II. A trial and conviction of government officials who commit war crimes seems like the only solution.
2
If it was an airstrike there is no evidence on the ground, where are the craters etc that usually follow? The convoy was torched anybody's guess who did it.
3
The United States could be much more forceful in condemning this attack, had we not "accidentally" bombed the Doctors without Borders hospital in Afghanistan last year. I don't think either the Syrians or the Russians would have stooped quite this low but for the cover we have provided them. That earlier attack may have truly been accidental and this later one appears to be very deliberate, but there is nobody left but Ban Ki Moon with the moral authority to point the finger. Too bad.
1
Why don't we just change sides? It would simplify things immensely.
ISIS is the demon. The enemy of the enemy and all that.
We haven't won a war since WW 2. This is a war that can't be won. Back in the days of the greatest generation, we were happy to ally with Stalin. Assad is no Stalin.
ISIS is the demon. The enemy of the enemy and all that.
We haven't won a war since WW 2. This is a war that can't be won. Back in the days of the greatest generation, we were happy to ally with Stalin. Assad is no Stalin.
1
The humanitarian convoy was moving through a very complicated war zone with multiple factions. This was facilitated by a cease fire agreement between the U.S. and Russia. The convey should have been escorted by air support, both U.S. and Russian... to keep everyone honest. "Trust but verify".
2
Someone anonymous tells you something that is supposed to be top secret.
If it were real the president would say it.
If it were real the president would say it.
Waleed, we should not allow such egregious war crimes to be repeated so we should go over there and kill some people? Did I read your comment correctly?
Not really, I am saying that in order to prevent such war crimes from becoming a common occurrence we have to show that we stand behind the aid groups. The war is dangerous to these aid groups and the locals themselves (obviously) yet we seem content to allow the status quo and do nothing. Merely going over and "killing some people" does nothing, if not makes it worse. What needs to happen if we do invade is that a post invasion plan must be in place. When the allies invaded Germany and cut it up after WW2 they didn't just go in, kill people, then let the country fend for itself. There was a comprehensive plan in place. We need the same for Syria.
3
We know about the lies over Iraq, but what about Syria? This is a very interesting and informative article.....
quote:The British government is waging ‘information warfare’ by funding media operations for some Syrian rebel groups. The Ministry of Defence is hiring contractors to produce videos, photos, radio broadcasts and social media posts branded with the logos of rebel groups, to ‘effectively run a press office for opposition fighters’. End quote from the article
https://markcurtis.wordpress.com/2016/08/22/we-know-about-the-lies-over-...
quote:The British government is waging ‘information warfare’ by funding media operations for some Syrian rebel groups. The Ministry of Defence is hiring contractors to produce videos, photos, radio broadcasts and social media posts branded with the logos of rebel groups, to ‘effectively run a press office for opposition fighters’. End quote from the article
https://markcurtis.wordpress.com/2016/08/22/we-know-about-the-lies-over-...
2
Where is the proof, NYT, that Russia bombed the convoy? It could have been any of the participants in this Syrian tragedy, Russia, Syria or the rebels, Turkey, other countries with an interest and access to drones that want it to appear that Russia is to blame. Is this not irresponsible reporting without all the facts? We have satellites that can read license plates for heaven sake.
The drip, drip daily demonizing of Russia/Syria in the media is very unsettling. Are we being led into another war, WWIII over Syria perhaps? I remember clearly the lies and misstatements along with the media coverage amplifying this in the lead-up to the Iraq war. And I feel it is happening again.
The drip, drip daily demonizing of Russia/Syria in the media is very unsettling. Are we being led into another war, WWIII over Syria perhaps? I remember clearly the lies and misstatements along with the media coverage amplifying this in the lead-up to the Iraq war. And I feel it is happening again.
7
Russia/Assad has defied the ceasefire in Syria by continuously bombing rebel held areas. Assad has never conformed to any ceasefire in Syria since 2011. Russia has further added ‘salt to injury’ by bombing UN humanitarian aid convoy killing 30 aid workers. Assad is a monster which US failed to control and he has played havoc with Syrian civilization killing one million civilians. He continues to use chlorine and barrel bombs on hospitals/schools in besieged city of Aleppo.
Syrian refugee crisis is the biggest challenge for Turkey, Jordan, and Europe. Terrorism has spread to Nice, Brussels, Ankara, Istanbul, and Paris as the leaders at the global helm failed to resolve the Syrian conflict. Iran and Russia has ruthlessly bombed Syria to oblivion killing tens and thousands of innocent civilians. Genocide/mayhem of Syrian folks must stop at all cost. Otherwise burning ‘middle east’ would set ablaze the entire world. Assad, the junior Pol Pot’, must be stopped before this dreadful conflict destroys the peace in ‘middle east’, Europe.
Putin and Assad have proved time and again that they can't be trusted from Eastern Ukraine to Syria. Putin's track record in Georgia, Azerbaijan, central Asian States, Chechnya, Dagestan and Ingutsia is tainted with blood. Putin has killed almost 70 Russian journalists/activists who exposed his gross human rights violations.
US/'west' must contain/stop Russia diplomatically and militarily before its to late. Putin must be cut to his size!!!
Syrian refugee crisis is the biggest challenge for Turkey, Jordan, and Europe. Terrorism has spread to Nice, Brussels, Ankara, Istanbul, and Paris as the leaders at the global helm failed to resolve the Syrian conflict. Iran and Russia has ruthlessly bombed Syria to oblivion killing tens and thousands of innocent civilians. Genocide/mayhem of Syrian folks must stop at all cost. Otherwise burning ‘middle east’ would set ablaze the entire world. Assad, the junior Pol Pot’, must be stopped before this dreadful conflict destroys the peace in ‘middle east’, Europe.
Putin and Assad have proved time and again that they can't be trusted from Eastern Ukraine to Syria. Putin's track record in Georgia, Azerbaijan, central Asian States, Chechnya, Dagestan and Ingutsia is tainted with blood. Putin has killed almost 70 Russian journalists/activists who exposed his gross human rights violations.
US/'west' must contain/stop Russia diplomatically and militarily before its to late. Putin must be cut to his size!!!
2
You killed ours... t We kill yours...
Welcome to the super power proxy war...where even when we're friends, we're not.
Welcome to the super power proxy war...where even when we're friends, we're not.
3
According to the NYT the US air strike on Syrian troops - which according to the Syrian Human Rights Observatory killed more than 90, not 60 lives - was "errant". Yet the NYT - according to "unnamed sources - reports that the attack on the UN convoy was conducted by the Russians and deliberate.
What quality of information and source allows the NYT to give the US a pass, but condemn the Russians? The strike on the convoy was horrific, but does the NYT need to function as a propaganda arm for the US State Department? Motive, please? Exactly what would the Russians gain by deliberately attacking a UN convoy? I can't think of any.
Rather, it appears that the NYT is an active foot soldier in this new anti-Russian cold war which has assumed another function - to discredit Trump. And yes, a Trump presidency would be horrific, but does the NYT believe they are helping to make this planet safer by jumping on the cold war bandwagon? I don't and urge the NYT to reconsider.
What quality of information and source allows the NYT to give the US a pass, but condemn the Russians? The strike on the convoy was horrific, but does the NYT need to function as a propaganda arm for the US State Department? Motive, please? Exactly what would the Russians gain by deliberately attacking a UN convoy? I can't think of any.
Rather, it appears that the NYT is an active foot soldier in this new anti-Russian cold war which has assumed another function - to discredit Trump. And yes, a Trump presidency would be horrific, but does the NYT believe they are helping to make this planet safer by jumping on the cold war bandwagon? I don't and urge the NYT to reconsider.
8
So John Kerry says he believes the ceasefire agreement is “not dead.”
My God. Is there no limit to the willingness of Kerry and Obama to have fools made of them – and the country they represent – by Putin, Assad and Khamenei?
Apparently not, since calling a halt to their kabuki diplomacy would be an admission that there is now nothing the U.S. can do about the Syrian slaughter.
That was not always so. At the time Assad called Obama’s “red line” bluff by using chemical weapons on his own people, it would have been eminently possible to establish a “no-fly” zone near the Turkish border, which could have provided a regional safe haven for refugees, thus mitigating the massive migrant flows that are destabilizing Europe. (I have never heard an explanation of why what worked so well in Iraqi Kurdistan would have been less successful in Syria.).
Now, with Putin having confidently established a heavy Russian air presence in Syria, a NATO operation to enforce a no-fly zone would be vastly more risky, since it would entail the potential for combat between Russian and NATO aircraft.
That doesn't mean it shouldn’t be done, but it does cast a cold light on how feckless Obama’s Syrian passivity has been.
Some historians now severely criticize FDR for failing to bomb Auschwitz in 1944 in an effort to disrupt the killing machinery. What will history say about President Obama’s failure to lift a finger to slow the Syrian slaughter ?
My God. Is there no limit to the willingness of Kerry and Obama to have fools made of them – and the country they represent – by Putin, Assad and Khamenei?
Apparently not, since calling a halt to their kabuki diplomacy would be an admission that there is now nothing the U.S. can do about the Syrian slaughter.
That was not always so. At the time Assad called Obama’s “red line” bluff by using chemical weapons on his own people, it would have been eminently possible to establish a “no-fly” zone near the Turkish border, which could have provided a regional safe haven for refugees, thus mitigating the massive migrant flows that are destabilizing Europe. (I have never heard an explanation of why what worked so well in Iraqi Kurdistan would have been less successful in Syria.).
Now, with Putin having confidently established a heavy Russian air presence in Syria, a NATO operation to enforce a no-fly zone would be vastly more risky, since it would entail the potential for combat between Russian and NATO aircraft.
That doesn't mean it shouldn’t be done, but it does cast a cold light on how feckless Obama’s Syrian passivity has been.
Some historians now severely criticize FDR for failing to bomb Auschwitz in 1944 in an effort to disrupt the killing machinery. What will history say about President Obama’s failure to lift a finger to slow the Syrian slaughter ?
2
Howard;
Excellent analysis having deep insight; couldn't be expressed better. Obama/Kerry has been outmaneuvered by Assad, Putin. and Rouhani. They have become immune to be ignored/diluted in Syrian conflict for the last five and a half years. Folks could recall crossing 'redline' rhetoric!!!
Excellent analysis having deep insight; couldn't be expressed better. Obama/Kerry has been outmaneuvered by Assad, Putin. and Rouhani. They have become immune to be ignored/diluted in Syrian conflict for the last five and a half years. Folks could recall crossing 'redline' rhetoric!!!
2
Vladimir Putin to Donald Trump - "how do you like me now?"
After the USA bombed the syrian troops.
1
I cannot believe that our Secretary of State still thinks the agreement he negotiated, again, with the Russians, is still viable. Clearly, this is a war that Russia now owns, in support of Assad. We don't like our choices, but the Russians certainly like theirs.
So the US on Saturday bombs a group it had a cease fire with, killing at least 62 soldiers and more wounding more than 100, violating the terms of the ceasefire agreement which took god knows how long to achieve.
American officials now claim "Russia was probably responsible for the deadly bombing of a United Nations humanitarian aid convoy in Syria" with the only evidence being that there were two Russian Sukhoi SU-24 warplanes "directly over the convoy less than a minute before the airstrike was reported."
Let's remember that it is the same intelligence apparatus and the same military that claimed that Saddam had weapons of mass destruction.
I for one would like to see some more evidence, or even better proof, that Russia had anything to do with the destruction of the envoy.
It is worth pointing out that Russia was invited and is acting legally in defence of the democratically elected sovereign government of Assad, whether you detest him or not, whereas the US is conducting an illegal aggression by bombing a sovereign country with one of the most incident civilization now being destroyed in front of our eyes because Saudi and Qatar want to build a Qatari gas pipeline across Syria to Europe.
The global interventions of the US have created horrendous outcomes to humanity and all living creature along its path for decades. The wars spread death, disability, trauma, disease, starvation, rape, revenge, poverty, torture, migrations.
War is highly contagious.
Enough already.
American officials now claim "Russia was probably responsible for the deadly bombing of a United Nations humanitarian aid convoy in Syria" with the only evidence being that there were two Russian Sukhoi SU-24 warplanes "directly over the convoy less than a minute before the airstrike was reported."
Let's remember that it is the same intelligence apparatus and the same military that claimed that Saddam had weapons of mass destruction.
I for one would like to see some more evidence, or even better proof, that Russia had anything to do with the destruction of the envoy.
It is worth pointing out that Russia was invited and is acting legally in defence of the democratically elected sovereign government of Assad, whether you detest him or not, whereas the US is conducting an illegal aggression by bombing a sovereign country with one of the most incident civilization now being destroyed in front of our eyes because Saudi and Qatar want to build a Qatari gas pipeline across Syria to Europe.
The global interventions of the US have created horrendous outcomes to humanity and all living creature along its path for decades. The wars spread death, disability, trauma, disease, starvation, rape, revenge, poverty, torture, migrations.
War is highly contagious.
Enough already.
6
Putin is KGB to the core. He has successfully resurrected the social, political and security apparatus of the USSR. He has crowned himself Neo-Tsar and is running the show the ONLY way he knows how. That's the way he was taught, they way he was brought up. Unfortunately for him, the USSR's demise was in spite of itself: A long slow decay and ultimate collapse and the Neo-USSR is going to suffer the same fate.
The neo-Soviets are different from the old Soviets in that they're not even TRYING to hide their deviousness any more, either through action, or diplomacy. This is Putin's Afghanistan and the end game isn't going to be pretty.
The neo-Soviets are different from the old Soviets in that they're not even TRYING to hide their deviousness any more, either through action, or diplomacy. This is Putin's Afghanistan and the end game isn't going to be pretty.
2
One thing for sure: the MFS hospital bombed a few months ago was not a Russian target.
Which does not mean anything else than learning to be...prudent.
Which does not mean anything else than learning to be...prudent.
1
'High confidence' is a coded way of saying we ain't a 100% on this.
I'm trying to understand the benefit to Putin's interest on this one? Was it intentional or an error by the pilot? Obviously Putin won't confess to an intentional war crime; assuming it was intentional.
I know the intense desire of the left in attaching Trump to this is compelling, but before we convict Vlad the merciless, Let's see what additional facts comes out in the days ahead. As is always in war, things get messy fast when facts are unclear.
I'm trying to understand the benefit to Putin's interest on this one? Was it intentional or an error by the pilot? Obviously Putin won't confess to an intentional war crime; assuming it was intentional.
I know the intense desire of the left in attaching Trump to this is compelling, but before we convict Vlad the merciless, Let's see what additional facts comes out in the days ahead. As is always in war, things get messy fast when facts are unclear.
2
How about an update nytimes. UN has now officially changed its narrative from attack from the air to "unspecified attack" on the convoy. There is no evidence to support an air attack in the rubble. Just like everthing else the US can't assert the blame on Russia quick enought. But this change by the UN will not make headlines.
5
Given Trump's past statements, maybe someone ought to ask him if he still admires Vladimir Putin's strong leadership?
On Saturday, an "errant American airstrike" kills 60 Syrians and on Monday, a "mysterious" airstrike kills innocent aid workers. I'm no analyst, but it seems like a textbook Putin response to me.
2
Am I the only one, who thinks that it was an "errant" strike based on faulty intelligence that mistook the UN trucks for ISIS bicycles?
18 trucks — clearly marked and carrying wheat flour, nine tons of medicine and clothing..."
Unfortunately, we will probably learn that the above sentence should also have included:
"and US arms and ammunition for rebel groups..."
We continue to arm rebel groups in Syria. We continue to agitate.
We should just stop.
Unfortunately, we will probably learn that the above sentence should also have included:
"and US arms and ammunition for rebel groups..."
We continue to arm rebel groups in Syria. We continue to agitate.
We should just stop.
4
Just terrible. I guess this is what you should expect from a leader, Putin, who rose to power by blowing his own countrymen up in their apartments and blaming it on the Chechens (look it up).
The only thing you can say about Putin is that he isn't as bad as Stalin.
The only thing you can say about Putin is that he isn't as bad as Stalin.
2
It simply astonishes that Secretary Kerry continues to have faith in the negotiating process with his good friend the Soviet Foreign Minister. Either Mr. Kerry is the world's greatest fool or he has a secret insight that none of the rest of us enjoy, about the Russians' entirely sincere and non-duplicitous approach to the Syrian conflict. I tend to favor the former hypothesis, but also adhere to the motto that fools and suckers are born each day.
1
There is certainly no reason to terminate the agreement. We can trust the Russians, although maybe some further talking is necessary. I'm sure they are sorry for what they inadvertently did, and will make sure to avoid oopsies like this in the future, if they can.
Americans, they make fools of you, again. Russian did not do that.
2
Oh probably, don't we have satellite coverage? Is our intel so poorly funded that the best we can come up with is probably?
2
'Probably' is a word of subtle, insidious propaganda. It sows seeds that fruit with no understanding, It grows like weeds to strangle and choke any fact or truth that might push to see the light.
3
Why is this news? We "accidentally" kill 60 Syrian troops and injure scores more during the first week of our proposed "cease fire".
And Russia has been a staunch ally of Syria for decades.
Where is the surprise?
The US needs to stop feigning virtue and own up the reality that our meddling in Syria these last 5 years, trying once again for a ( failed) regime change is also responsible for the nightmare underway there.
And now it starts AGAIN in Yemen.......
Our behavior these last 13 years in the Middle East has been not only hypocritical, pathetic and an affront to the Constitution--- but also grossly incompetent'
And Russia has been a staunch ally of Syria for decades.
Where is the surprise?
The US needs to stop feigning virtue and own up the reality that our meddling in Syria these last 5 years, trying once again for a ( failed) regime change is also responsible for the nightmare underway there.
And now it starts AGAIN in Yemen.......
Our behavior these last 13 years in the Middle East has been not only hypocritical, pathetic and an affront to the Constitution--- but also grossly incompetent'
4
The People of America are telling the U.S. government, "U.S. government definitely plotted and instigated the whole Syrian Civil War."
2
This is another reason why I am considering supporting Trump for the presidency. In my opinion, it was a mistake for the Obama administration to get involved in Syria in the first place. I also can't see how the benefits of removing Assad would outweigh the negatives (i.e. provoking Russia.) I also can't help but think that the escalation of tensions with Russia will continue, if not get worse, if Hillary Clinton were to become president.
4
I assume the US had a geostationary satellite over Syria and there is, somewhere, very clear imagery of what happened.
An Su-24 has the rough dimensions of my house roof and google satellite imagery is pretty crisp at rendering my light grey Directv dish hanging over my dark grey asphalt singles. I assume the US military hardware can do even better.
The UN is now in session, and I remember, as a child, seeing U2 reconn photos of Soviet missiles being placed on Cuba shown to the UN General Assembly. Let the world know what Russian pilot(s) did, and let Russia explain it's actions.
An Su-24 has the rough dimensions of my house roof and google satellite imagery is pretty crisp at rendering my light grey Directv dish hanging over my dark grey asphalt singles. I assume the US military hardware can do even better.
The UN is now in session, and I remember, as a child, seeing U2 reconn photos of Soviet missiles being placed on Cuba shown to the UN General Assembly. Let the world know what Russian pilot(s) did, and let Russia explain it's actions.
2
When ever I read that government sources revealed classified information and spoke anonymously I am leary. First of all classified information should not be leaked and if it is the source should be identified otherwise it is just a rumor as far as I am concerned.
This is the point where the US withdraws from peace negotiations and just keeps hacking away at Isis. Russia is at best duplicitous and at worst the deliberate source of why the convoy was hit. They can and will say anything to avoid real blame. It suits their strategic aims greatly for the aid not to get through. The war has gone on too long. Any winner and peace that isn't Isis would be better than this for its people . Russia gets what it always had, Iran is no less involved than it was already. It will take trillions of dollars to rebuild the country and make it viable again. Let them pay for it. Defend Israel, Jordan, as our allies and let those who want Syria deal
With the consequences - they'll never get what they think they want anyway. Things never work out that way.
With the consequences - they'll never get what they think they want anyway. Things never work out that way.
1
I cannot think of any reason the Russians would have to bomb an aid convoy. It makes no sense unless 1. It was a complete accident. These things do happen in war as we well know. 2. There was something on the convoy that could have been used by ISIS. It is unlikely that we will ever know the truth, because these things become politically charged, and those that ultimately suffer are the people. I hope that both Russia and the US will continue to try to work together despite such setbacks. And for those so quick to criticize, I wonder if you were as quick to do the same when we the US went into Iraq and lit the powder keg.
62 syrian soldiers were bombed by the US coalition & the aid convoy was burned by rebels on orders from the coalition.
objectives - turn it around to make Russia look bad, back the evil assad narrative, cancel out the finger pointing for the Deir-Ezzor bombing with 62 dead SAA soldiers, show Russia we are in control.
Mission: Success
objectives - turn it around to make Russia look bad, back the evil assad narrative, cancel out the finger pointing for the Deir-Ezzor bombing with 62 dead SAA soldiers, show Russia we are in control.
Mission: Success
1
Isn't about time for Russia to start paying a price for its intervention in Syria? If the humanitarian convoy would had been protected by a few FIM-92 Stinger surface-to-air missiles given to the Syrian free army, the result would had been different. As long as the Syrian and Russian air forces can continue to operate with impunity, this human tragedy will only get worse.
"Probably" "suggested"..... weasel words. They know who did it. Why don't they say who was responsible outright? There is no guessing game going on when there are satellite tracking technology every square inch of that region.
1
High probability Russia did it? I don't believe our government. Obama can't extract himself from the regime change plan for the destruction and partition of Syria. So he wants hands to hand it off to Hillary. First bombed Syrian soldiers now destroys convoy or sent "moderate" allies to do it. US speaks with forked tongue.
1
But isn't Putin the man Donald Trump has praised for his "strength"?
I have no reason to believe the exhibition of raw force in attacking this convoy will not be praised and possibly emulated by Trump if given the opportunity.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/18/politics/donald-trump-praises-defends-vlad...
I have no reason to believe the exhibition of raw force in attacking this convoy will not be praised and possibly emulated by Trump if given the opportunity.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/18/politics/donald-trump-praises-defends-vlad...
Under our noses, in 2016, a proxy war like none other. The highest levels of global power target food and medicine, because a half million dead is not enough.
There is no depravity bar beyond our reach; we have no sense of decency.
Never again. Never again?
There is no depravity bar beyond our reach; we have no sense of decency.
Never again. Never again?
2
It is so awesome that we have a choice to elect as President a man who reveres the leadership of Vladimir Putin. Putin surely puts Obama to shame with this wonderful display of power. Can you imagine what Trump and Putin could do together? November election can't come soon enough!
That the US sees 'high probability' about just about anything does not track well with reality. Just sayin'.
1
Reminds me of last year's U.S. deliberate (not accidental) destruction of the hospital in Afghanistan that was staffed by Doctors without Borders.
1
A lot of assunmptions going on here.
2
What I see is the US not willing to live up to its agreement and start intelligence sharing. Sixty-two Syrians died for that. After all, if the US was willing to kill dozens for that, what's an extra dozen?
The US "accidentally" killed close to hundred of Assad's soldiers in a recent airstrike. Now Russia is likely to have bombed a UN convoy with supplies destined to shore up rebel-held territories. As long as the US and Russia are fighting a proxy war in Syria, incidents such as these are bound to occur. I'm no friend of Putin but when it comes to fighting Islamist radicals, Russia and the US share a common enemy. Maybe they should work together when it comes to destroying ISIS.
6
All indications are it was Syrian air force that bombed the aid
convoy. Even during the cease fire they didn't allow the trucks
to get through to the area. Assad didn't want the aid to be delivered.
He got more annoyed after USA bombed its military post. Ashton Carter
was unhappy with the cease fire and cooperative arrangement John Kerry
had agreed. He decided to sabotage it by bombing Syrian soldiers.
The whole thing is a mess. Blame game doesn't help Syrians who
need food and medicine and more importantly peace.
convoy. Even during the cease fire they didn't allow the trucks
to get through to the area. Assad didn't want the aid to be delivered.
He got more annoyed after USA bombed its military post. Ashton Carter
was unhappy with the cease fire and cooperative arrangement John Kerry
had agreed. He decided to sabotage it by bombing Syrian soldiers.
The whole thing is a mess. Blame game doesn't help Syrians who
need food and medicine and more importantly peace.
1
The real question, one most important in comprehending what he civil war is really about, deals with teh innocence, or not, of the US. We are famous for our coups, all over the globe and history. Did we have a hand in fomenting this one?
This is an essential point when it comes to understanding international 'terrorism'. I'm not saying the US State Dept. and its neocon-led policy did anything to encourage the uprising -- but I hope no one thinks it would be completely unlike us.
This is an essential point when it comes to understanding international 'terrorism'. I'm not saying the US State Dept. and its neocon-led policy did anything to encourage the uprising -- but I hope no one thinks it would be completely unlike us.
2
Pretty sick people who would blow up food and aid for war torn innocent families in need. There is a special place in hell for the whole rotten group of them.
1
"Privately, American officials said their intelligence information suggested Russian aircraft had actually carried out the attack."
Did the "intelligence information" come from the same source that made us kill 61 Syrian soldiers last week?
Obama knows we can't fix this without capability to control our allies on the ground, or in the neighborhood. Those would be the ones that started the conflict and fooled Obama into thinking it was another Tahir Square and he said "Assad must go". The Graham/McCain et. al. chorus got overwhelming and he got involved.
Did the "intelligence information" come from the same source that made us kill 61 Syrian soldiers last week?
Obama knows we can't fix this without capability to control our allies on the ground, or in the neighborhood. Those would be the ones that started the conflict and fooled Obama into thinking it was another Tahir Square and he said "Assad must go". The Graham/McCain et. al. chorus got overwhelming and he got involved.
4
Syria rejected GMO's, western Central Banks and Neocon domination of the Middle East. Look at the mess these Neocons have made of the world. Go Putin, elect Trump and let's get back to being the shining light on the hill rather than the dim bulb in the Neocon Liberal universe...
2
The US officials if they're good at anything it'd be the blame game, their propagandists in mainstream media will immediately jump to support their narrative.
Let's start the blame game from a Syrian perspective:
1) The US to be blamed for igniting the instability in the whole region by invading Iraq, destroying Libya & previously Somalia & other places.
2) The US approach to the Palestinian cause was & is wrong, & that is the root of all problems in the whole MENA region.
3) NY Times was the newspaper that uncovered the shadow Internet established by the CIA to support the 'rebels' in the early days of the Syrian crisis.
4) The US pushed its tools in the region namely Qatar, Saudis & Turks to enable the transportation of Jihadists from all sides of the world into Syria when they couldn't crack the Syrian Army. Over 350,000 terrorists fought the SAA over 5 plus years, a report suggested 2 months ago.
5) Turkey is to be blamed for using ambulances & humanitarian convoys to smuggle weapons & terrorists into Syria, this is well documented since the early days of the conflict, even using ambulance vehicles donated to the Turks by British people.
6) All non democracies in the Middle East to be blamed for the conflict in Syria and other countries in the region and beyond. The main Ally of those non democracies is the USA itself. Those do include Israel & Turkey who claim to be democracies but are not at all in any scale.
7) UN allowing others to decide the fate of others.
Let's start the blame game from a Syrian perspective:
1) The US to be blamed for igniting the instability in the whole region by invading Iraq, destroying Libya & previously Somalia & other places.
2) The US approach to the Palestinian cause was & is wrong, & that is the root of all problems in the whole MENA region.
3) NY Times was the newspaper that uncovered the shadow Internet established by the CIA to support the 'rebels' in the early days of the Syrian crisis.
4) The US pushed its tools in the region namely Qatar, Saudis & Turks to enable the transportation of Jihadists from all sides of the world into Syria when they couldn't crack the Syrian Army. Over 350,000 terrorists fought the SAA over 5 plus years, a report suggested 2 months ago.
5) Turkey is to be blamed for using ambulances & humanitarian convoys to smuggle weapons & terrorists into Syria, this is well documented since the early days of the conflict, even using ambulance vehicles donated to the Turks by British people.
6) All non democracies in the Middle East to be blamed for the conflict in Syria and other countries in the region and beyond. The main Ally of those non democracies is the USA itself. Those do include Israel & Turkey who claim to be democracies but are not at all in any scale.
7) UN allowing others to decide the fate of others.
3
Not that there is ever a good time for something like this to happen but, this feels like the worst possible timing. I agree that the U.S. needs to focus on the objective of neutralizing isis, but this underhanded back and forth between the U.S and Russia needs to stop before one of these nations does more than step on the others toes.
3
The American civil war lasted over 4 years. Theirs will end when somebody wins and somebody surrenders or enough of them decide that it's better to live than to die for whatever they're fighting for. It's their country, their civil war, their decision to keep it going. We really ought not be involved at all but certainly not more involved. Neighboring countries should create safe havens for refugees, which we can support, so that those who choose not to fight can have a chance of surviving, and US pressure should be brought to bear on those countries to do that. There are too many factions at cross-purposes for us to have any sensible, effective policy that includes military action. The nations of the region who are most affected by this ongoing chaos are the ones to act to bring it to end, and if they won't, well. Why can't our leaders let other nations and regions solve their own problems. They're all adults.
2
We are to believe the same American intelligence which led to the "accidental" attack on an Air Force base that killed 62 Syrian soldiers and injured more than 100, thus helping IS in an offensive? The Russians say they didn't do it. They say, as the chassis are not destroyed and there are no craters, it may not have been an air strike at all. But our government would never lie to us, right? Why would the Russians or Syrians attack the aid convoy, any way? None of this makes sense and looks like a propaganda stunt to attack Russia and support continued US/Israeli destabilization efforts in the region.
5
This is clearly tit-for-tat. The U.S. "accidentally" bombed a Syrian army detachment just days ago, killing 60 of Russia's allies. Now a humanitarian convoy ostensibly heading into rebel-held territory is "accidentally" bombed (in retaliation). The American side offered its "apologies" for the 60 deaths. Now let's see if the Russians apologize for this attack. Quite a "cease-fire" we have going here. For the sake of the remaining Syrians in Syria, may one side or the other cease offending, or retaliating...
2
All side of the conflict use UN convoys, Mosques, Hospitals, schools and anywhere or anything that Western values consider sanctuary as cover for their operations and protection against Western Coalition forces. Pointing fingers at anyone is just nonsense and an unrealistic expectation of the behaviors of those involved in conflict in the Middle East and/or of these cultures. Making accusations against any allies including Russia, only serves the needs of the radical Muslims and others from these areas.
Can our media never get to the truth and just stop with this childish and naive banter?
Can our media never get to the truth and just stop with this childish and naive banter?
1
Maybe Trump can call his BFF, Vladimir Putin, and ask him to please stop it.
1
Seems unlikely that Russia would intentionally bomb the convoy. And it could not have been unintentional, given they certainly knew the whereabouts of the convoy. I have a hard time believing anything the Pentagon says anymore, given their long history of deceiving the world.
18
Oh, really?
And can we assume you don't believe any of the people from the United Nations either?
And can we assume you don't believe any of the people from the United Nations either?
1
Yes, and the Russians have always been completely transparent and honest?
2
If it wasn't they US that leaves only Russia or Syria. Take your pick. It was probably the Russians but they're never going to admit culpability.
1
Of course, rush to judgment. Insinuate: high probability. Had not the US aided rebel forces in the first place, there would not have been an Aleppo crisis requiring aid. Was Russia behind the five-year civil War, or did US intervention create it? Stepping back, which nation has had a global record of armed drone assassination, regime change, paramilitary operations--Russia or the US? And what of the attack on Assad forces just days before? Is that not presumptive evidence of US intent?
Why not be done with it, and announce a declaration of war! This is what the Administration wants, and what the American people want. That out of the way, if we can survive such a move and policy, then the US can go after its real target, China--with Obama's Pacific-first strategy, battleships, carrier, battle groups, B52 flyovers, the famous "pivot" or "rebalance" of forces and targets.
By all means, maintain the incendiary chatter and demonization of Putin. Even newly arrived football season will not check America's sense of boredom and nihilism. Yes, let's roll up our sleeves, push on with war.
Why not be done with it, and announce a declaration of war! This is what the Administration wants, and what the American people want. That out of the way, if we can survive such a move and policy, then the US can go after its real target, China--with Obama's Pacific-first strategy, battleships, carrier, battle groups, B52 flyovers, the famous "pivot" or "rebalance" of forces and targets.
By all means, maintain the incendiary chatter and demonization of Putin. Even newly arrived football season will not check America's sense of boredom and nihilism. Yes, let's roll up our sleeves, push on with war.
10
@norman pollack
east lansing mi
Er...the civil war in Syria had been going on for two years before the US had any involvement.
east lansing mi
Er...the civil war in Syria had been going on for two years before the US had any involvement.
11
"Mr. Ban called the attack on the convoy “sickening, savage and apparently deliberate.”
I cannot for the life of me understand why Putin would deliberately commit such a "sickening" act. OK, I know he's a thug and has his own selfish agenda in Syria, but to destroy Syrian aid? Only a barbarian would act like that.
I also cannot understand why the US seems to think it can resurrect a cease fire that clearly amounted to nothing. How many times do you go to the well when it's dry?
About the only thing I glean from this sordid tragedy is something I already knew: Putin is a thug without a soul or conscience, and trying to "make deals" with him is a useless proposition.
I cannot for the life of me understand why Putin would deliberately commit such a "sickening" act. OK, I know he's a thug and has his own selfish agenda in Syria, but to destroy Syrian aid? Only a barbarian would act like that.
I also cannot understand why the US seems to think it can resurrect a cease fire that clearly amounted to nothing. How many times do you go to the well when it's dry?
About the only thing I glean from this sordid tragedy is something I already knew: Putin is a thug without a soul or conscience, and trying to "make deals" with him is a useless proposition.
5
Really? Putin is a sickening figure. And he's KGB-Cynical to his rotten core. HE, as well as all the Alawites don't care about aid going to who THEY are fighting against.
That's WHY Russians bombed the convoy.
That's WHY Russians bombed the convoy.
1
Other than trying to work out a ceasefire could you please provide alternative solutions to the situation.
Take your time.
Take your time.
1
You just have to read on Putin's handling of the Chesnyian wars and what his right hand governor there, a murderous mafia psycopath by the name of Kadirov has been doing to understand no one will shed one tear for the massacre going on in Syria....Its an all out war, that it be covert, hidden, via media propaganda owned by the Russian government to undermine the West and Western values, undermine elected government in the EU, paid for right wing opposition to promote the break up of the EU, Nato, or American politics (Trump elected would be a winfall for Rasputin!) Putin war crimes in Crimea and Eastern Ukraine and South Ossetia and Syria will likely go unpunished....
1
Putin and Assad are dictators. Their philosophy is an an eye for an eye. Putin's prior actions in Georgia, Ukraine, Estonia, etc, have shown that, and Assad's in Syria, as well...even if it is merely alleged retaliation, which did not actually occur.
Apparently, we have the documentation, and probably will not verify same, for purposes of further diplomacy with Russia. Either way, whoever did it, Russia or Assad, their alleged actions are despicable.
Further and again, to get a full picture, we need to demand that Trump, release not just all of his taxes now, but all of his business information now, to prove that he doesn't have financial and other ties with China, Russia and their respective princelings and oligarchs. If Trump does have those connections, that would constitute an inherent conflict of interest to him becoming our President.
Ironically, Trump, Putin and Assad do appear to have one thing in common. That is, an inability to articulate four little words: "I'm wrong. I'm sorry." Putin and Assad can get away with that because their countries are not democracies. Trump can't, because we are supposed to be a democracy. Accordingly, this is still another reason that Trump is not fit to be our President.
Apparently, we have the documentation, and probably will not verify same, for purposes of further diplomacy with Russia. Either way, whoever did it, Russia or Assad, their alleged actions are despicable.
Further and again, to get a full picture, we need to demand that Trump, release not just all of his taxes now, but all of his business information now, to prove that he doesn't have financial and other ties with China, Russia and their respective princelings and oligarchs. If Trump does have those connections, that would constitute an inherent conflict of interest to him becoming our President.
Ironically, Trump, Putin and Assad do appear to have one thing in common. That is, an inability to articulate four little words: "I'm wrong. I'm sorry." Putin and Assad can get away with that because their countries are not democracies. Trump can't, because we are supposed to be a democracy. Accordingly, this is still another reason that Trump is not fit to be our President.
11
Even with all the mutual distrust and divergence of goals, if the US and Russia could come to agree on a limited ceasefire agreement between them, couldn't they further agree on constituting a joint investigation of the gruesome bombing of the UN humanitarian aid carrying convoy, instead of indulging in the blame game? For, such a step would not only work as the requisite confidence building measure between the two rival powers, but also help salvage the precarious short term agreement arrived between them, opening in turn some possibility to take up wider dialogue on Syria in near future. The current session of the UNGA annual meeting could really provide a right setting for such an initiative on Syria.
2
After MH`17, there is no trust left.
3
If you suppose this attack is not an accident but intended, and analyze it from a framework of motivation, it's the Syrian Army which is responsible. The Americans targeted them by "accident", and this would be their way of getting back.
But this is quite a legacy Obama is leaving. War footing against Russia and China. North Atlantic allies eager to break away. (And Donald Trump.) The only American President who left a worse legacy is James Buchanan.
But this is quite a legacy Obama is leaving. War footing against Russia and China. North Atlantic allies eager to break away. (And Donald Trump.) The only American President who left a worse legacy is James Buchanan.
13
I can only assume you were asleep from 2001-2009.
2
We bombed their buddy Assad's soldiers, so the Russians bomb our buddies the aid trucks. Fragile peaces probably break down a great deal because sinister meanings are ascribed to what are actually mistakes. In any case, the Russians may be letting us know that our actions, whether they are mistakes or not, will be answered. Or they may be be using our mistake to do something that would help Assad and bring despair to the rebel areas.
This sort of thing is dangerous, of course. World War I began that way. Now that everyone knows how these situations are dangerous, we are generally more cautious.
This sort of thing is dangerous, of course. World War I began that way. Now that everyone knows how these situations are dangerous, we are generally more cautious.
12
Why are we still getting involved on the wrong side(s) in the Syrian war?
There is a clear and known objective there - defeat ISIS. Nothing else. Stop with protecting Doctors Without Borders, stop allowing the UN to use our resources for their nation-buidling exercises that don't benefit the US. And stop trying to make us take refugees that would be better supported in their own region of the world that is culturally compatible with them.
This is more nonsense about why we should care. Let's get our objective done. And leave. And stop messing with things we can't win. Ever.
There is a clear and known objective there - defeat ISIS. Nothing else. Stop with protecting Doctors Without Borders, stop allowing the UN to use our resources for their nation-buidling exercises that don't benefit the US. And stop trying to make us take refugees that would be better supported in their own region of the world that is culturally compatible with them.
This is more nonsense about why we should care. Let's get our objective done. And leave. And stop messing with things we can't win. Ever.
48
Your point is well taken. However, I am not sure there is a "right side". Assad is clearly a practitioner against Western values. The other forces are so scatter and idealistically apart that I am not aware of any significant force that is pro-United States of America - unless its accompanied by a hand to receive the handout (armament, money, supplies, etc.)!
Isolate, contain and educated for the long run would be a way. However, our leadership in the US is unable to think past the next election - or so it appears.
Isolate, contain and educated for the long run would be a way. However, our leadership in the US is unable to think past the next election - or so it appears.
1
The administration of humanitarian aid is directly tied to the goal of fighting ISIS.
New terrorists don't just spring out of the ground fully-formed. They are shaped by environmental pressures -- and a war-ravaged city with no humanitarian aid is a pretty good petri dish for terrorists to grow in.
New terrorists don't just spring out of the ground fully-formed. They are shaped by environmental pressures -- and a war-ravaged city with no humanitarian aid is a pretty good petri dish for terrorists to grow in.
2
This administration's foreign policy is in a shambles. By appeasing the tyrant Assad two years ago, it set the stage for Putin to intervene and nothing Kerry attempts will stop the Russians from striking with impunity. You can't negotiate in good faith with them or the Iranians but the arrogance of Obama and his minions at State prevents this simple truth from being realized.
1
Do you think the Russians were sending a message about what happens when their surrogates are attacked? Neither attack was a mistake; we know that, they know that. Why not print the truth: This has become a very dangerous case of schoolyard machoism that could easily erupt into something far more serious.
18
You are 100% right. This is no game. It is time for talks with Russia. Find out just what they want. Also why are they so willing to back Assad. Is it because of the war in Iraq ? I am sure they do want the whole middle east to fall into what they perceived as there enemy. Seems like the world is being staked out. China, Russia America. This is about as dangerious as it can get. This is no I.S.I.S. The three countries have 90 % of all nuclear war heads in the world and none are about to give any of them up. So Americans look at your children, you want them to grow up. Well till the big three can come to some agreement the clock is getting to 12:00. There is no room for macho here at all. Now do we want MR. Trumps hand on the button. Wild eyed thin skin not a time for that. Yes, make America great. What America ???
Attacking humanitarian workers in reprisal for attacking soldiers isn't a message, it's a war crime and an atrocity.
2
Well of course they did! For crying out loud- Russians regularly kill their own people- from 1905 all the way to Yeltsin revolt in 1993. Do you think they give two squirts of skunk water about a U.N. aid convoy? As far as the Russians are concerned, the U.N. is just NATO in sheep's clothing and they knew exactly what they were doing. This is just a prelude to something worse- I just have that yuck feeling.
17
I don't think Russia would do this deliberately, to what end? Either they made a terrible mistake, or they were tricked by Assad. They will apologize for the error or acknowledge the depraved nature of the Assad regime.
There should be consequences if it is shown they are accessories to Assad in this.
There should be consequences if it is shown they are accessories to Assad in this.
7
The Russians and Assad's airforce have consistently targeted hospitals and civilians and you don't think Russia would do this deliberately? There may be consequences in the Hague for a few when this is finally over but it does not help people in the firing line now.
6
“Just when we think it cannot get any worse, the bar of depravity sinks lower,” states the UN Secretary General. Seems to apply to a number of posts here that point the finger at the UN rather than at Russia.
20
Better depravity than mindlessly accepting the word of a government who has already admitted to sixty murders that someone else killed the aid workers.
Yup. The finger points to...Russia
Putins plan is to weaken and embarrass the U.S. and to facilitate the election of Donald J Trump to the presidency.
Putins plan is to weaken and embarrass the U.S. and to facilitate the election of Donald J Trump to the presidency.
1
If this is true, and can be proven without a shadow of a doubt, then there is somethig irrevocably wrong with this picture...And the world.
There is not a dearth of players to blame in this.
In fact, there's enough blame to go around--on all sides.
But inevitably, and invariably -- it all comes back to Bashar al-Assad, who is willing to let this all unfold on his people so that he might remain in power, and on his blood-stained throne.
There are not enough words in any given language to describe how despicale this is, and no excuse for it being allowed to happen for this long.
And Americans--WAKE UP!
Trump won't help.
There is not a dearth of players to blame in this.
In fact, there's enough blame to go around--on all sides.
But inevitably, and invariably -- it all comes back to Bashar al-Assad, who is willing to let this all unfold on his people so that he might remain in power, and on his blood-stained throne.
There are not enough words in any given language to describe how despicale this is, and no excuse for it being allowed to happen for this long.
And Americans--WAKE UP!
Trump won't help.
12
I agree with you N, but unfortunately
Trump supporters don't read the NYT.
Trump supporters don't read the NYT.
1
So well said. I agree 100%. America wake up. This is no game. Do you love your kids ? Well let them grow up. I know I grew up in the height of the old cold war. It was NOT fun. Duck and Cover. Cold War II has begun. Trump will not help. He will have plenty of protection if the bomb comes down. He is a rich man.
1
If it turns out to be true that Russia purposely targeted this convoy, Putin will have proven two things, perhaps yet again: 1) He and his Russian government are not to be trusted, and 2) He and his Russian military are cowards, exactly as the UN General Secretary has said. And the same, of course, is true of his Syrian clients.
I have no idea if Secretary Kerry and President Obama constructed the recent cease fire agreement with any realistic expectation of its fulfillment. Perhaps, they were simply giving Russia and Syria more rope to hang themselves with. The problem, of course, is that any such hanging has taken over a half-million largely innocent lives along with it already.
I don't know if there is any solution that we can any longer afford to participate in in this region of the Middle East. Maybe the reason President Obama continues the effort is that he feels strongly that we cannot afford not to participate. I don't have an answer. Even if I did, probably there are not enough people who matter that would listen.
Unfortunately, we may not be able to avoid a wider Middel East conflict as a result. The question is, what can the U.S. do then that it has not done up to now?
The answers to that question seem to me both deeply troubling and unthinkable, regardless of the choices available.
I have no idea if Secretary Kerry and President Obama constructed the recent cease fire agreement with any realistic expectation of its fulfillment. Perhaps, they were simply giving Russia and Syria more rope to hang themselves with. The problem, of course, is that any such hanging has taken over a half-million largely innocent lives along with it already.
I don't know if there is any solution that we can any longer afford to participate in in this region of the Middle East. Maybe the reason President Obama continues the effort is that he feels strongly that we cannot afford not to participate. I don't have an answer. Even if I did, probably there are not enough people who matter that would listen.
Unfortunately, we may not be able to avoid a wider Middel East conflict as a result. The question is, what can the U.S. do then that it has not done up to now?
The answers to that question seem to me both deeply troubling and unthinkable, regardless of the choices available.
11
Well, there Trump's hero, Vladimir Putin doing what fascist dictators do best. Imagine how wonderful the world will be when Trump becomes president and he and Putin can finally team-up??
If nothing else, we are a country of cretins to reach this point.
If nothing else, we are a country of cretins to reach this point.
14
It was clear that there was a high risk of attack on that convoy, especially after the Syrians broke of the truce, therefore I don't understand why the US didn't sent up a few planes to provide cover to the convoy to discourage any attacks on it.
10
Humanitarian actions are brokered by negotiations, protected by emblems and derive their protection from human decency. They don't choose sides, and anyone at all's war planes sent up for "protection" save blue helmets would have violated that. Attacking protected persons is a crime, they're protected by the law.
1
All these stories as reported by the corporate media remind me of the passages about nonstop far-away wars described in George Orwell's "1984." Getting back to reality... What we have here is a proxy war between two great powers, the U.S. and Russia. Of the two powers, the U.S. engaged first with overt and covert campaigns to remove Assad. This has been going on for a few years now. Russia, having some important interests in Syria, including a naval base, then decided to protect those interests. In the meantime, while these two powers play their geopolitical game, hundreds of thousands of people have perished.
40
So, what was in the convoy that the UN isn't telling anyone about?
8
Right, the U.N. was shipping in a convoy of surface-to-air missiles or something. Manny, if they were effective like that, this conflict would have been ended years ago by U.N. military interference.
1
The US recently "mistakenly" slaughtered 62 Syrian soldiers. Since the U.S. has a recent history of bombing targets on accident (along with the fact that it operating in Syria illegally), why wouldn't it be the primary suspect?
24
Can someone please explain to me what advantage the Russian's would gain by bombing the aid convoy?
Seems like the rebels would have a stronger motive.
Seems like the rebels would have a stronger motive.
18
The advantage is psychological. Disrupting the peace process, disrupting any stability in Syria (such as it was), creating uncertainty and confusion in the minds of American voters, general unease in European nations, and creating an unwillingness to act by anyone who feels like being humanitarian. Make others scared and the bully wins.
1
The rebels don't have an airforce...
Starving the people of Syria is in Russia's interests. When people are starving, they will gladly go back to a dictator who will at least give them breadlines to stand on.
1
In an Op-Ed piece today, President Carter says, "...the United States and Russia must find ways to work beyond the lack of trust that undermined the previous cease-fire...."
Sadly for one's hopes for peace and a resolution to the ongoing horror, the fundamental problem is not merely lack of trust or conflicting desires for control of turf. That is true for some parties, but for others the basic goal is the destruction of their perceived enemies. Not everyone wants to stop the killing across the board.
If we want to truly understand the region and maintain any hope for contributing to a lessening of its violence, we must cease the tendency to view what goes on there through the lens of Western political, social, and moral values.
As to Western values, as the U.S. government has determined that it is, in fact, likely this was a Russian airstrike, it would be fair to ask Donald Trump at the first debate what his reaction is. And, for the moderator to be prepared with follow-up interrogatives if necessary.
Sadly for one's hopes for peace and a resolution to the ongoing horror, the fundamental problem is not merely lack of trust or conflicting desires for control of turf. That is true for some parties, but for others the basic goal is the destruction of their perceived enemies. Not everyone wants to stop the killing across the board.
If we want to truly understand the region and maintain any hope for contributing to a lessening of its violence, we must cease the tendency to view what goes on there through the lens of Western political, social, and moral values.
As to Western values, as the U.S. government has determined that it is, in fact, likely this was a Russian airstrike, it would be fair to ask Donald Trump at the first debate what his reaction is. And, for the moderator to be prepared with follow-up interrogatives if necessary.
11
Steve from Oakland,
Agreed. Ask Trump that question.
Agreed. Ask Trump that question.
1
The US "mistakenly" killed 60 Syrian soldiers. Possibly an error. Possibly intentional. And either way the victims were part of a brutal military regime that is committing war crimes left and right.
The Russians "mistakenly" kill aid workers and civilians, and destroy tons of humanitarian aid. 99.9% intentional. And either way the victims were the best part of humanity, risking their lives to help others in need.
The left doesn't care, because the US military is involved. Both sides are bad.
The right doesn't care, because Putin is an effective leader. Neither side is bad.
So nothing changes.
The Russians "mistakenly" kill aid workers and civilians, and destroy tons of humanitarian aid. 99.9% intentional. And either way the victims were the best part of humanity, risking their lives to help others in need.
The left doesn't care, because the US military is involved. Both sides are bad.
The right doesn't care, because Putin is an effective leader. Neither side is bad.
So nothing changes.
12
The only thing I know for sure is no one knows what to do regarding Syria.
A friend--a film maker--met what we called "insurgents" at the time in Canada in 2005. They were Iraqis that had allied themselves with Al Queda and other US enemies. My friend, with indignant fervor and anger, challenged these men to explain why they were fighting Americans. They didn't answer the question, but stated that my friend, and other American citizens, should be grateful for their efforts--their retreat action war with the US. This statement stopped my friend cold, because it made no sense.
Their explanation: If the insurgents had not slowed American hubris in Iraq, the war would have spread to an American invasion of Syria and Iran. And then they said, "The Middle East is a place for Superpowers to spend money, not to fight wars."
My friend said, "There is only one Superpower."
The insurgent said, "Well, if you insist on fighting in the Middle East, there will be NO Superpower."
My opinion...George Bush Sr is looking smarter every day. He knew when to stop.
A friend--a film maker--met what we called "insurgents" at the time in Canada in 2005. They were Iraqis that had allied themselves with Al Queda and other US enemies. My friend, with indignant fervor and anger, challenged these men to explain why they were fighting Americans. They didn't answer the question, but stated that my friend, and other American citizens, should be grateful for their efforts--their retreat action war with the US. This statement stopped my friend cold, because it made no sense.
Their explanation: If the insurgents had not slowed American hubris in Iraq, the war would have spread to an American invasion of Syria and Iran. And then they said, "The Middle East is a place for Superpowers to spend money, not to fight wars."
My friend said, "There is only one Superpower."
The insurgent said, "Well, if you insist on fighting in the Middle East, there will be NO Superpower."
My opinion...George Bush Sr is looking smarter every day. He knew when to stop.
11
Despicable. The convoy was attacked in multiple strikes. I'm guessing Russia did this at Syria's request. I hope they're proud of what they did.
13
Unfortunately, I'm sure they are.
1
Why would anyone hope that?
Regarding the "Red Line" some commenters like to bring up as a shortcoming of our President. It's actually quite the opposite. The American people did not want to go into Syria, they did not want to get entangled in another Middle East conflict, and President Obama listened to their voices.
89
If he was listening then why did he make the comment in the first place?
1
We should not have gone into Syria not even with proxies. The Syrian Christians support Assad and we support the jihadist and head choppers.
2
No one wanted or asked for US troops to get entangled in Syria. Obama refused to supply the opposition with critical weapons and forbade other nations from doing the same. The resulting stalemate on the ground in the conflict gave birth to ISIS and added layers of complexity in the Syrian conflict apart from causing tens of thousands of Syrians to be killed and millions to be displaced. Now Obama finds himself fighting ISIS and duelingwith Putin. I would call this entanglement!
12
If Russia purposely targeted a UN humanitarian convoy, they should certainly lose their seat on the UN Security Council, and all the power derived from their veto privilege. This is not about the US vs Russia, but about the UN having any power whatsoever in the world.
24
Not arguing against, but just pointing out: on a list of events to precipitate WW3, "Russia Ousted from UN Security Council" is definitely one of those opening montage spinning newspaper headlines.
Why would it be of any benefit to give the UN any power, even more than what it has now?
We cannot trust Putin under any circumstances. He has violated every standard of international cooperation and decency. And we therefore cannot trust Trump under any circumstances: he admires Putin and thinks we can get along with him ("Wouldn't that be great."). But we can't, and Trump's naïve for imagining that we can (if, in fact, Trump isn't financially involved with the Russian oligarchy in the same way that Manafort was).
26
" Putin bas violated everything standard of international coopération and decency".
If you knew what is decency you should never write whatnot wrote. USA should be the one to learn the decency and to mind its own business instead of imposing to the others " the American way of life", " the democracy" and the rest.
If you knew what is decency you should never write whatnot wrote. USA should be the one to learn the decency and to mind its own business instead of imposing to the others " the American way of life", " the democracy" and the rest.
11
Right. And whatever happened to the Manafort story. Looks like Trump IS Putins man...
2
Russia is not the only super careless superpower. At least it wasn't a sustained attack of the type carried out by the U.S. against a hospital.
14
That was proven to be a terrible error--this appears to be purposeful on the part of the Russians.
5
LeS, it all in the words. An error, a mistake. Purposeful, cruel attack.
You don't even know for sure if it was Russians - "NYT: Privately, American officials said..." - and already you are saying it was "purposeful"
The past seven presidents have failed to provide a convincing explanation of what we, the people of the United States, gain by pouring trillions of our tax dollars into this endless nightmare called the Middle East.
The disastrous Bush-Iraqi invasion exacerbated the Sunni-Shiite wars, but the truth is their tribal conflicts predate the existence of our nation, indeed, they predate the European Renaissance.
Those tribes will delight in hammering out their vengeance upon each other for another millennium (let us never forget that war is a form of entertainment).
Our future is elsewhere, and we must not be diverted by tribal conflicts we cannot solve but only make worse.
The disastrous Bush-Iraqi invasion exacerbated the Sunni-Shiite wars, but the truth is their tribal conflicts predate the existence of our nation, indeed, they predate the European Renaissance.
Those tribes will delight in hammering out their vengeance upon each other for another millennium (let us never forget that war is a form of entertainment).
Our future is elsewhere, and we must not be diverted by tribal conflicts we cannot solve but only make worse.
37
We are involved because of Israeli influence, Saudi money, and oil. It does not matter if the American people want us uninvolved. We are nothing to the intelligence agencies and the government. They do want they want and we pay for it.
14
But we are a culture of violence and are drawn to this sort of activity.
7
The answer is simple - there's money to be made (for some)
1
I hope we can prove this to the world
11
like colin powell's dog and pony show at the u.n.?
1
I wish it would matter in geopolitics if we did prove it.
Although I completely believe that it is probable that Russia was responsible for this horrific tragedy, I must point out that the process of asking American officials "what happened?" as a means of determining the "truth" of the matter is not journalism.
I love this newspaper, and it IS the last bastion of decent reporting in the world. But, as Robert W. McChesney made clear in his book/documentary, asking State Dept officials their opinions does not equal quality reporting. Surely there is a greater likelihood it was a Russian jet, but we need to stop asking the empire "who to blame?" when informing the public, no?
I love this newspaper, and it IS the last bastion of decent reporting in the world. But, as Robert W. McChesney made clear in his book/documentary, asking State Dept officials their opinions does not equal quality reporting. Surely there is a greater likelihood it was a Russian jet, but we need to stop asking the empire "who to blame?" when informing the public, no?
40
Why is Syria's problems worth the risk of starting WWIII? Let Russia have Syria, Russia is Syria's ally, not the United States. What ... is there something to prove? Get the hades out of Syria. The risks far outweighed by the reward. ISIS is the remnant of Saddam Hussein's Ba'ath party, the sooner we admit to that and stop the charade the better. Nation building and meddling have not worked out well for us. Hello is anyone listening?
30
ISIS is a proxy army supported by the U.S. and its NATO allies. Russia, not the U.S., is fighting ISIS. Since ISIS steals humanitarian aid supplies intended for Syrians, there probably is a good reason why this convoy was targeted, assuming that anything in the article is based on fact.
10
Well you see, Syria's problems are spilling over into Turkey and our allies in Europe, and that is causing all sorts of problems. Destabilizing Europe is just one reason Putin has an interest in Syria and why we have to be involved.
1
That's conspiracy theory bull-ony WB, the US does not support ISIS, though we created it by displacing the Ba'ath party of Hussein's Iraq. Our military-industrial complex may feel emboldened and entitled to raise the alarm of ISIS. There's a difference between support an tacit glee. Russia isn't just fighting ISIS, but rather preserving the Assad regime, which is also Ba'athist. Keep the facts straight.
3
Back in the day, the response of the US military would have been, "if we only had a few thousand more troops in place, this would be all over." That thinking gave way to, "we should be inundating moderates with weapons, so that they can take up the fight before factions such as ISIS emerge and also effect a regime change that brings a pro-US government to the capital."
Both options failed in Vietnam and the Middle East. Ultimately, this is for the Syrians to resolve. If they don't respond to the news reports with compassion, we cannot impose it.
Both options failed in Vietnam and the Middle East. Ultimately, this is for the Syrians to resolve. If they don't respond to the news reports with compassion, we cannot impose it.
59
Mike -- the problem is that "moderates" are in very short supply. Syria isn't Denmark, don't even think about that. It is a desperately factionalized nation that has descended to dog-eat-dog brutal religious/civil war -- a war that is multi-ethnic.
Nobody is going to win this. It is an everybody-loses contest. But some think that as long as they come out "on top," and their opponents are dead ... they won.
Most of the people fighting have gone far, far past any calculation, and are simply fighting out of blind hatred.
Death and exhaustion are the only end-points.
Nobody is going to win this. It is an everybody-loses contest. But some think that as long as they come out "on top," and their opponents are dead ... they won.
Most of the people fighting have gone far, far past any calculation, and are simply fighting out of blind hatred.
Death and exhaustion are the only end-points.
13
It is for Syrians to solve except Assad is supported by Russia, Iran and Hezbollah. Assad would have fallen years ago without this support. So if we take a hands off position we simply hand off to Assad and his allies. If we don't, we end up in a proxy war with Russia and Iran. Our inability to make a decision is why we arevwherevwevare.
1
Russians showed they're good bombing humanitarian convoys in Syria and
shooting passenger planes out of the sky in Ukraine.
shooting passenger planes out of the sky in Ukraine.
21
It would be great if you could prove either one of those statements.
11
Elfton
Prove what is self evident?
Who's side are you on?
Prove what is self evident?
Who's side are you on?
@RjW
So you can't prove it?
So you can't prove it?
In Ukraine and Syria, we are letting the Russians get away with murder, figuratively and literally. Putin doesn't care for diplomacy; he ignores it. I think it will be up to the US and the rest of Europe to stand up this international bully and liar. And by the way, electing Trump is not the answer.
15
Ukraine and Syria are essential to Russsian security and have been for decades. We are the grand disrupters.
13
Since we are on the topic of probability, would the people who say that Russia "probably" attacked the UN convoy, be the same people who have no idea whether Hillary Clinton or Donald Trump is ahead in the presidential race?
6
Gee, Jon in New Mexico, you're implying that the country's best intelligence doesn't know about current trends in the presidential election? Seen any UFOs recently, Jon?
1
Why would Assad want food and medical supplies delivered to Syrian civilians? His entire strategy is to starve and kill civilians. I hope Secretary Kerry has a better plan.
9
If one single Russian jet took out the 19 trucks, it certainly could be a tragic communication error just like our bombing the wrong troups the day before.
10
Thanks, Boris, for this fine interpretation. We'll check RT for the follow-up stories.
8
Ive, you're equating the U.S.'s errant bombing of a totalitarian regime's soldiers now massacring innocent civilians with a Russia's intentional bombing of an American-Russian, agreed-upon humanitarian convoy?
3
It was foolish to think we could trust Putin, the biggest supporter of the terrorist Bashir Assad. We need to name the Syrian government for what it is- the world's greatest state sponsor of terrorism. Dropping bombs on hospitals- a repeated, intentional act of the Syrian/Russian terror alliance- or now, aid convoys, is no different than flying airplanes into office towers. Assad/Putin have intentionally killed far more civilians than the sadism cult that calls itself ISIS. Assad/Putin only understand strength. Destroy their air forces- a few dozen cruise missiles- and they will get the message. Putin will keep killing and conquering until he is stopped.
10
Agreed. There is no way to stop these bullies except by standing up to them. The U.S. cannot continue to allow Russia and Syria to act this way without serious consequences. International leaders are watching, and it is time to break Putin's nose on the playground.
5
War, war and more war. Despite all of our advances in technology, medicine and quality of life, our species continues to find pleasure in hurting each other. I find it very difficult to call us a civilization if this hatred cannot be tamed.
19
Terry Neal, tell the Russians that. Unfortunately, they won't hear your altruistic message. But maybe if we appease the Russian all threats of war will magically go away, right, Terry in North Carolina?
2
'On Saturday, an errant American airstrike that was supposed to target Islamic State militants in Syria instead killed 60 people that Syria’s government and its Russian allies identified as Syrian soldiers; they suggested that the assault was deliberate, despite American apologies.'
I think the Russians should now apologize. That should even out the depravities.
I think the Russians should now apologize. That should even out the depravities.
6
Killing totalitarian forces in Syria now massacring innocent civilians equals bombing a humanitarian convey? Gee, Dreamer in Syracuse, your moral equivalency is breathtakingly revealing.
2
"Secretary of State John Kerry said he believed the agreement was not dead."
"Mr. Kerry conferred with his Russian counterpart....and other diplomats representing the International Syria Support Group..planned to hold additional meetings".
Mr. Assad did not allow the aid in from the beginning. Then the Russians bombed the convoy, maybe, possibly, perhaps, definitely Russian plane, but who knows. We should wait for the Russians and the Syrians to share more information.
So certainly Mr. Kerry has much to talk about and to discuss and he and President Carter can continue their calls to stop the killing.
The deal lives on only in Mr. Kerry's head. The Syrians announced the end of the deal. Mr. Kerry, sticking his head in the sand does not change anything.
"Mr. Kerry conferred with his Russian counterpart....and other diplomats representing the International Syria Support Group..planned to hold additional meetings".
Mr. Assad did not allow the aid in from the beginning. Then the Russians bombed the convoy, maybe, possibly, perhaps, definitely Russian plane, but who knows. We should wait for the Russians and the Syrians to share more information.
So certainly Mr. Kerry has much to talk about and to discuss and he and President Carter can continue their calls to stop the killing.
The deal lives on only in Mr. Kerry's head. The Syrians announced the end of the deal. Mr. Kerry, sticking his head in the sand does not change anything.
4
If indeed the Russians bombed the convoy, then it is perhaps the most blatant and stupid thing they could have done. This would only prove Russia has no stake in any peace accord where anyone other than themselves benefit. It's also a war crime, so if proven this can come back and really hurt Russia. This kind of act cannot be allowed to happen, action musty be taken to protect aid workers, many of whom are volunteers. I urge president Obama to take a very severe action in response to this because of the precedent it sets. This is not a minor event, but could change how wars are fought and people aided in the future. If it was the Syrian army that bombed the convoy then I feel it's time to put boots on the ground. We cannot allow such egregious war crimes to occur or they will occur more frequently.
46
Who should "boots on the ground" fight? They will be attacked by nearly every rebel, ISIS, etc.group, with IEDs, and we are back to Iraq before we left. It would take about 300,000 US troops to occupy Syria. NO
1
Why? They will just deny it and claim that America did it as a false flag attack or some such, and half the world will believe them because idiotic partisanship is not solely an American phenomenon.
My concern is that Russia has a rather realistic expectation that they can act with impunity. They invaded a neighboring country and are disrupting the current presidential election, with no meaningful consequences. Likewise for likely shooting down a passenger plane.
And what does Russia have to fear from the UN? Probably nothing. Who wants to risk all-out war with Russia by taking them on?
And what does Russia have to fear from the UN? Probably nothing. Who wants to risk all-out war with Russia by taking them on?
1
This was a UN convoy.
Is Russia a member of the UN? Yes. Does Russia have a permanent seat on the UN Security Council? Yes. Can Russia veto any resolution by virtue of its permanent seat? Yes.
So how long is the UN going to tolerate one of its most prominent members destroying its humanitarian missions? If there was ever proof that the UN is worthless, this is it.
Is Russia a member of the UN? Yes. Does Russia have a permanent seat on the UN Security Council? Yes. Can Russia veto any resolution by virtue of its permanent seat? Yes.
So how long is the UN going to tolerate one of its most prominent members destroying its humanitarian missions? If there was ever proof that the UN is worthless, this is it.
21
why you suggested u.n. is worthless?
Obama asked for and got a no fly zone in Libya. u.s. and its nato gang went ahead and bombed Libya back to stone age and did a regime change.
any consequence for u.s. and its nato gang?
Obama asked for and got a no fly zone in Libya. u.s. and its nato gang went ahead and bombed Libya back to stone age and did a regime change.
any consequence for u.s. and its nato gang?
1
Just one question to you: were is airstrike craters near this TORCHED trucks?
1
If the convoy was supplying the U.S.- and NATO-backed rebels, then Russia may have bombed the convoy. The U.S. has no business in Syria anyway, so this article is propaganda.
23
And the trolls are out. Should we assume that Russia has business being in Syria? Particularly to bomb a convoy of trucks carrying food and medicine meant for civilians? That is Russia's business in Syria?
11
Russia did bomb the aid convoy.
You have no business posting here, so your post is propaganda.
The U.S. is in Syria to fight against ISIS, against Russian aggression, and to ensure the death of Bashar al Assad, the brutal butcher of Damascus.
Bashar will perish, as will Putin, before this game is over.
You have no business posting here, so your post is propaganda.
The U.S. is in Syria to fight against ISIS, against Russian aggression, and to ensure the death of Bashar al Assad, the brutal butcher of Damascus.
Bashar will perish, as will Putin, before this game is over.
8
You said " ...Russia has business being in Syria?"
Russia it's fighting in Syria by the request of the legitimate Government, unlike U.S who doesn't have any UN mandate to fight, broke international and american law by attacking the Syrian Army.
Another regime change like in Lybia,Afghanistan,Iraq,Ukraine ,etc, that U.S's business in Syria or elsewhere?
Russia it's fighting in Syria by the request of the legitimate Government, unlike U.S who doesn't have any UN mandate to fight, broke international and american law by attacking the Syrian Army.
Another regime change like in Lybia,Afghanistan,Iraq,Ukraine ,etc, that U.S's business in Syria or elsewhere?
6
The U.S. should retaliate in kind. Putin's fascist endeavors have gone too far. Russia has declared a new type of war on the U.S. but most Americans still don't know it.
17
Of course Russia bombed the convoy. We killed nearly a company of Assad's soldiers and disrupted who knows what initiative the Russians were backing. There's no way they're going to allow a relief column to bail out an a sector of resistance after something like that.
22
Exactly this.
2
The problem with being a bit too predictable on the world stage is that countries that style themselves as adversaries try to push a little bit at a time, until they've taken a mile. There is certainly no easy answer, but I'm beginning to think that we need to tell the Russians that their planes might 'accidentally' get shot down if they continue sorties over Syria. We've stood by as they invaded two neighbors (one fairly friendly to the US and not particularly corrupt), annexed parts of both...if the Turks could do it, we can figure out a way to send a similar message.
18
Might there be some way for hand held surface to air missles to find their way into "the right hands" in Syria? I recognize the challenges of defining "the right hands" in this situation
1
Appeasement: Obama says give them time to figure it out.
Obama,please tell them, Russia and Syria they have 10 days to replace the convoy and to deliver the supplies or else. Red line.
In the meantime send a few B 2's and B 1's circling over Syria while your waiting.
Obama,please tell them, Russia and Syria they have 10 days to replace the convoy and to deliver the supplies or else. Red line.
In the meantime send a few B 2's and B 1's circling over Syria while your waiting.
4
Yeah we know how strongly Obama stands by his Red Lines.
What if Russia refuses? You're going to risk nuclear war over Syria?
What if Russia refuses? You're going to risk nuclear war over Syria?
3
Ron
Are you willing to risk WW3 over this incident? Can you see how easily your idea could escalate out of control?
America and Russia bombing each others assets in Syria. Another step toward total catastrophe.
Are you willing to risk WW3 over this incident? Can you see how easily your idea could escalate out of control?
America and Russia bombing each others assets in Syria. Another step toward total catastrophe.
8
Can't you wait for Trump to get us into a shooting war with Russia?
1
There are moves and counter moves aplenty in Syria. The U.S. is supporting the Kurds and trying to defeat ISIS but we do want a regime change. Our allies, the Turks, are also trying to defeat ISIS but wouldn't mind shooting the Kurds in the back. The Russians want to destroy all the opponents and prop up the Assad regime. We are trying to work with the Russians while they want to kill all those we support. Witness the latest strike on an aid convoy. Meanwhile Iran, Hamas, Hezbollah, Israel and the Saudis are either involved or on the sidelines. It's all so confusing but I'm not worried, because after Trump is elected in November the problems will be solved. After all, he knows ISIS better than the generals do. Believe me. His years of experience in real estate and on reality TV have prepared him for this task.
Or don't believe me, and vote for the candidate with direct exposure to this quagmire and knows the difference between the Quds and the Kurds.
Or don't believe me, and vote for the candidate with direct exposure to this quagmire and knows the difference between the Quds and the Kurds.
19
On the previous day it was reported that United Sates forces had "accidentally" attacked and killed over sixty Syrian soldiers during what was supposed to be a cease fire. Has everyone already forgotten that while blaming Russia for this?
We have no dog in the Syrian fight and we should get out of there.
We have no dog in the Syrian fight and we should get out of there.
20
I don't agree.
I think it is seriously time to defend a no-fly zone with corridors to the most beleaguered cities in Syria. The slaughter ordered by Assad and Putin is disgusting.
So, is Assad now also a friend of Trump?
I think it is seriously time to defend a no-fly zone with corridors to the most beleaguered cities in Syria. The slaughter ordered by Assad and Putin is disgusting.
So, is Assad now also a friend of Trump?
4
Well, imposing a no-fly zone means attacking Syrian and Russian airbases, radars, SAMs etc. I doubt the Russians would allow that to happen without striking back.
8
The order for this could originate from only one source. Mr. Trump, your mentor has spoken. Again.
10
For all accusing Russia, US is also guilty of invaiding sovereign nations and bombing civilian targets by mistake, such as a MSF hospital which was in communication with the US as it was bombed. The Iraq war we started "by mistake" rages on and is at least partially responsible for the rise of ISIS. US also supports terrorist groups, such as the Taliban during the cold war and the "moderate" Islamists fighting in Syria (watch the video of them dragging around a dead Russian pilot they shot down while chantions Allahu Akhbar and read the Daily Mail article about one such group beheading a boy spy). As a left over from what should be a past era, US has some terrible allies, most notably Saudi Arabia, which suppresses all dissent, religions other than a conservative Islam, and treats women as property of men. Ultimately, Russia is a modern Western and diverse country fighting the same Islamic terror at home and abroad. Stop frothing at the mouth for another disasterous war (a war with Russia would be madness). Russia is logically our ally as it was when they fought the Nazis at a cost of 20 million Russian lives.
28
Russia is a pariah state, and should be treated as such.
7
Russia did what!? As far as The Donald is concerned it's either Obama's fault or Hillary's.
12
@ bozicek: I'm not sure what the "shalom" was for or what it is that leads you to believe that I didn't comprehend the article. My point is that The Donald unaccountably loves Putin and will find a way to blame Obama and/or Hillary for anything and everything including birtherism and the potholes on the streets of NYC.
Unhysterically yours.
Unhysterically yours.
10
Really I worry that the 'shalom' didn't mean "peace" but was some sort of indicator of the alt-right for "Jewish", like someone calling me Dan ((Stackhouse)).
Little do he know that Stu Freeman is actually Morgan Freeman's half-brother, and converted to Hinduism years ago. Not really.
And Stu, I thought it was a good point, in that Trump's reaction has no relation to reality, in this and most cases.
Little do he know that Stu Freeman is actually Morgan Freeman's half-brother, and converted to Hinduism years ago. Not really.
And Stu, I thought it was a good point, in that Trump's reaction has no relation to reality, in this and most cases.
We need to leave the area. Now. There are no reliable players. There is no one to work with. Assad is killing his own people. We are not the U.N. Putin and Assad value only their own lives. We can bring the case to the U.N. If it can't work (and for cripes sake, no "U.S. led U.N. "coalition"), then let the world judge who are the murderers. We need to leave.
12
...and a few dozen comments engaging in whataboutism.
Here's the thing: we made a mistake a bombed a Syrian army position. Then we ACKNOWLEDGED IT and say it was a mistake. We didn't spend a couple of days coming up with such gems as "they probably bombed themselves," "it was probably government mortar fire," "it was a gas main explosion," "we saw a suspicious pickup truck," "aliens??" No. We acknowledged it and owned it.
And that's the difference between the US and Russia. When we make mistakes, we acknowledge it. And one mistake does NOT somehow cancel out another.
Here's the thing: we made a mistake a bombed a Syrian army position. Then we ACKNOWLEDGED IT and say it was a mistake. We didn't spend a couple of days coming up with such gems as "they probably bombed themselves," "it was probably government mortar fire," "it was a gas main explosion," "we saw a suspicious pickup truck," "aliens??" No. We acknowledged it and owned it.
And that's the difference between the US and Russia. When we make mistakes, we acknowledge it. And one mistake does NOT somehow cancel out another.
49
Not to make light of this, but it was obviously another Russian show of strength. Something that a Trump administration would consider in a similar circumstance?
2
War is the crime here. And Assad is the one most responsible for this war.
16
Imagine that we went all in on alternative energy research in 1978/79, after oil shocks, shortages, and Iran taking the US embassy hostage. Imagine America had the upper hand in energy, like it did in computers and internet development, but energy is more valuable (it is). And imagine that the shift away from fossil fuels crippled the petroeconomies, most of whom are terrorist (but not all, Norway, Canada and Scotland). Russia would be a rickety, alcohol sodden mess, and irrelevant on the national stage. The Mideast and Persia would be as relevant as Central Africa. And we wouldn't be watching this awfulness in Syria, with our hands tied.
Thanks, fossil fuels companies, for buying our US politicians and preventing us from doing the reasonable thing. You keep our world corrupt and interesting, where we can watch the parade of atrocities that come of fossil fuel addiction.
Thanks, fossil fuels companies, for buying our US politicians and preventing us from doing the reasonable thing. You keep our world corrupt and interesting, where we can watch the parade of atrocities that come of fossil fuel addiction.
31
Agree, but to be fair, we are somewhat on this path. Russia is perhaps so involved in Syria because its oil is worth less and less and its economy is tanking. Not good for Putin.
Same with Saudi. They are feeling the pinch.
Same with Saudi. They are feeling the pinch.
6
UN aids must reach to all needy. Wars cater to interest of few and destroy the many. All attempts to be made to prevent such events in the future.
5
The US is pouring fuel on the fire. Why, and how do we become safer by our involvement in Syria? We are insane to get mixed up in Syria.
12
I normally support Obama, but in this case I think it is time for him to step up and operate through strength. It is time for the US to do what it said it would do and bomb Assad. For every strike against civilians and humanitarian aid workers, for every strike against emergency workers, hospitals and doctors, Assad should be bombed five times. Every time Russian bombs civilians, moderate rebels or the above, bomb Assad. With Assad thus weakened, then renegotiate peace through strength. You will not achieve peace, when Assad and Russia do not fear war.
63
Why not just ask Trump to tell his BFF to cut it out.
3
Moderate rebels have you looked at them go ahead and give another nation away to radical jihadists don't you folks ever learn in America. You are creating another power vacuum that will be filled with way worse people. By the way I hope to see you on the front lines taking on the Russians instead of being behind a computer desk or on a phone.
11
Peace through strength? Didn't we try this in Viet Nam? Iraq? Look where that got us. No - not again. GET OUT NOW.
4
It is and has been clear to me that Joe Scarborough is right:
1. United States must declare a no fly zone in Syria-now around Aleppo. (It's is Syria Gary)
2. Bomb out every single Syrian air force flight capable air ship.
Notify Russia and that's that. We cannot sit by as Aleppo is starved out. We cannot nor can the rest of the world, again Our President must lead bringing the world along. No we should not do this alone, bring in as many as possible. Amen!
1. United States must declare a no fly zone in Syria-now around Aleppo. (It's is Syria Gary)
2. Bomb out every single Syrian air force flight capable air ship.
Notify Russia and that's that. We cannot sit by as Aleppo is starved out. We cannot nor can the rest of the world, again Our President must lead bringing the world along. No we should not do this alone, bring in as many as possible. Amen!
9
Your first issue is listening to Joe Scarborough, the rest falls apart after that.
6
Hey Bob Curtis I hope you are willing to send your sons and daughters to die for this and don't you realize it is against international law to bomb sovereign nations look it up. By the way you want to talk about starving look at the Yemenis that are being bombed daily by US made bombs for Saudi Arabia. By the way haven't you looked at history of American interventions they have been absolute failures.
10
I'm getting this very peculiar "House of Cards" feeling. Life imitating Art?
2
I totally condemn the attack on the aid convoy, but please remember that during WW2 the allies firebombed entire cities with civilians, children and hospitals. That doesn't excuse the attack on the convoy: I mention it as a reminder of the horrible brutality of war. "Rules of war" are rarely followed when desperation sets in.
9
Well yes in ww2,it was a World WAR,and we stopped the war with the bombing.
Example. Emperor Hierito, Truman ask him to stop fighting and surrender, Nope,drop one Big one, Truman Ask again Surrender, answers, Nope,drop another big one, Hieirto,stop! thats enough no more of that stuff we surrender.
Example. Emperor Hierito, Truman ask him to stop fighting and surrender, Nope,drop one Big one, Truman Ask again Surrender, answers, Nope,drop another big one, Hieirto,stop! thats enough no more of that stuff we surrender.
1
The rules of war change over time. Carpet bombing cities became illegal as a means and method of war after, not before, World War II. So it is not an example of "'rules of war' being rarely followed when desperation sets in." There is always the possibility that the attack on the convoy was a mistake, or that the people carrying it out believed they were acting in accordance with international law.
Barring that, though, there is no excuse for a war crime, most certainly not "desperation sets in."
Barring that, though, there is no excuse for a war crime, most certainly not "desperation sets in."
The next US "mistake" should be a cruise missile attack that somehow goes off target and destroys every command and control building and every runway in Assad regime held territory.
15
I'm for it, send Kerry on a bicycle trip and lets get this over with. By the way, who is next, Duterte?
Then the same thing would happen to the airfields used by the US.
Then maybe all the bombing would stop.
Or there would be a worse war.
Then maybe all the bombing would stop.
Or there would be a worse war.
2
How about a UN-declared no-fly zone? Russia and Syria would have to respect that.
. . . That is, since we're already there and all.
. . . That is, since we're already there and all.
1
Great idea except Russia would VETO.
Next?
Next?
9
Would that no-fly zone allow the US and all its allies to continue to fly and bomb in Syria?
Get the UN to stop only the regime the US wants to change, stop it from flying inside its own country while we bomb it?
Get the UN to stop only the regime the US wants to change, stop it from flying inside its own country while we bomb it?
2
How does the US Air Force know it wasn't them?
Or
Maybe it was the IsIs Air Lift diivision?
or
A Mossad operation?
or
Air Trump?
SO WHAT IF WAS THE RUSSIANS?
They blew a civilian airliner out of the air in Ukraine.
No consequences.
They annex Crimea.
No consequences.
They have the Green Men fighting in the Ukraine.
No consequences.
Russia hacks and hacks and hacks.
No consequences.
With only two choices, Syrian or Russian aircraft....
No consequences.
No monitoring of the airspace? AWACS? Satellites?
No mechanical monitoring?
A further lowering of the bar to pre WW2 complacency and passivity.
Or
Maybe it was the IsIs Air Lift diivision?
or
A Mossad operation?
or
Air Trump?
SO WHAT IF WAS THE RUSSIANS?
They blew a civilian airliner out of the air in Ukraine.
No consequences.
They annex Crimea.
No consequences.
They have the Green Men fighting in the Ukraine.
No consequences.
Russia hacks and hacks and hacks.
No consequences.
With only two choices, Syrian or Russian aircraft....
No consequences.
No monitoring of the airspace? AWACS? Satellites?
No mechanical monitoring?
A further lowering of the bar to pre WW2 complacency and passivity.
6
You evil reporters should stop writing bad things about President Trump's BFF Putin.
6
What else can you expect from Putin. Along with Assad, they are desperate despots without conscious. How do you "reason" with despots.
4
Maybe ask Obama and how he deals with the House of Saud.
3
The house of Saud is poppy's and George the dull's baby. They gave birth to that one
7
@Armo
So what? Obama has continued the relationship. He's just as culpable. I dislike Democrats just as much as I do Republicans.
So what? Obama has continued the relationship. He's just as culpable. I dislike Democrats just as much as I do Republicans.
3
It's time for the USA to put a hellfire missile between Assad's eyes. He leads Syria and he is responsible for what happens, or is allowed to happen, on Syrian soil. How much worse can it get anyway?
This is the price paid by innocents for our nation building. All the dominoes are falling now, with the first one toppled during the ill-advised invasion of Iraq.
Mission Accomplished. Yeah, right.
This is the price paid by innocents for our nation building. All the dominoes are falling now, with the first one toppled during the ill-advised invasion of Iraq.
Mission Accomplished. Yeah, right.
9
Great comfort to know the possibility of a friend and defender of putin could be our next commander in chief.
9
Yep, I bet the Russians feel the same when Obama slaughtered all those people at the Doctors without Borders Hospital.
Amazing they get away with it, isn't it?
Amazing they get away with it, isn't it?
7
and to think this all started with the degenerates in the bush administration - including bush - good job brownie - mission accomplished.
7
Bill,
You should be ashamed to make such a traitorous comment about the President.
Putin: slaughter was intentional
Obama: slaughter was not intentional
You should be ashamed to make such a traitorous comment about the President.
Putin: slaughter was intentional
Obama: slaughter was not intentional
4
I find it incomprehensible that a bomb has not yet been inadvertently - oops - dropped on Assad yet. Incredible that the Syrian leader has such a safe haven surrounded by such inhumanity he instigated.
5
Amen. It's time for decapitation strikes against all of Syria's command and control infrastructure, including Assad and his cronies. Perhaps some Russian "advisors" will be accidentally killed as well in the confusion. It's past time Putin and Assad learned that they are not free to slaughter civilians with impunity.
Just another day in the countless illegal and criminal 'regime change' wars that the United States conducts all around the world against sovereign states violating all sorts of international laws.
A feckless, spineless media that exists merely to function as the propaganda wing of the government instead of holding its feet to the fire.
Half-a-million innocent people (women/children/men) dead already.
Supporting/arming/funding terrorists groups with the use of Intelligence agencies while claiming to 'fight' them at the same time without a freaking clue of knowing who is what!
A clueless citizenry that has been wrapped in a mis-information/propaganda bubble that doesn't care about the government's foreign policy and how those criminal acts impacts the world at large.
For every country we lay waste to (Iraq, Libya, Syria), destroying their infrastructure, livelihoods, standard of living etc, generations will grow up to hate us with all they have got and it wont bode well for our collective futures. The chickens will come home to roost one day and we as a people will be left scratching our heads as to "What did we as a people do to deserve this?"
God help us all!
A feckless, spineless media that exists merely to function as the propaganda wing of the government instead of holding its feet to the fire.
Half-a-million innocent people (women/children/men) dead already.
Supporting/arming/funding terrorists groups with the use of Intelligence agencies while claiming to 'fight' them at the same time without a freaking clue of knowing who is what!
A clueless citizenry that has been wrapped in a mis-information/propaganda bubble that doesn't care about the government's foreign policy and how those criminal acts impacts the world at large.
For every country we lay waste to (Iraq, Libya, Syria), destroying their infrastructure, livelihoods, standard of living etc, generations will grow up to hate us with all they have got and it wont bode well for our collective futures. The chickens will come home to roost one day and we as a people will be left scratching our heads as to "What did we as a people do to deserve this?"
God help us all!
57
Very well said. I am one of the few that hears you.
trump said his good friends the russians would NEVER do that! Ever!
3
I wish the government didn't need us (the citizens) to hate the Russians so much. I'm 65, and the 'government' whomever that may be has been busy trying to make me hate Russians for at least 59 of those 65 years. Frankly, I'm tired of hating Russians. Right now I'm thinking more along the lines of hating politicians. Republican, Democrat, it doesn't matter. They are all worthy of hate, they have betrayed us for years, they rob the poor and pay the rich, they are everything that is bad, rotten, and awful. You can display a million blown-up trucks and I'm still finished hating Russians. I've got a perfect democrat running for president I can hate and a perfect republican running for the same office I can hate.
Please, don't waste my time with Russians. I've had 60 years of "let's hate the Russians" and I'm done with it.
Please, don't waste my time with Russians. I've had 60 years of "let's hate the Russians" and I'm done with it.
106
I know what you're saying... and I'm with you.
5
Very well said.
3
robW - You can turn a blind eye to the rest of the world, including Russia, however the dictators of the world are not going to stop causing trouble and the US needs to remain vigilant.
I am inclined to agree with the assessment that Russia is involved. Maybe it was an accident, but we know that taking responsibility is not one of their forte. The fact that there is no outrage over this is telling. When I was a student, my University professor pretty much predicted that this is what was going to happen. When he predicted this outcome, Medvedev was president then. He knew that Medvedev was simply warming the seat for Putin until he was eligible to run again. He told us that when he comes back, he will want to show the world that Russia can be great again! it is so uncanny seeing this unfold. What bothers me is that real people are caught up in this ego trip that Putin is on.
4
It seems that brazenly the Western mainstream media doesn't mind to show off its bias as I don't read the cynical label 'mistakenly' regarding this attack as it was overindulgently labeled the U.S. attack over Syrian soldiers.
The U.S. is keenly against to reach an agreement with the Russians so it doesn't have moral authority to bash the Russians because the Americans have worked hard to ruin the agreement as first killing the Syrian troops. And have it accomplished.
The U.S. is keenly against to reach an agreement with the Russians so it doesn't have moral authority to bash the Russians because the Americans have worked hard to ruin the agreement as first killing the Syrian troops. And have it accomplished.
15
so this makes killing unarmed - humanitarian aid workers - WHO ARE UNARMED AND NEUTRAL - ok?
4
It's become abundantly clear that the only solution to this disaster will involve a UN-imposed (i.e., US) no-fly zone. Without that, anything that moves in Syria is likely to be hit in another "mistaken" air raid.
We should also ensure that any solution involves the arrest and prosecution of Assad. The man clearly has no interest in protecting his own people, and is dependent on Putin's help to maintain his hold over the country.
Finally, it's undeniable that Putin is the puppet master in this theater. it's become painfully obvious that he lies with the same glib ease as his famous American sycophant, Donald Trump. Short of making this another Viet Nam-style proxy war, the West has little recourse except economic isolation. Putin's ambitions are becoming scarier by the day, and the West needs to make it clear there's a limit to how far they can be pushed.
We should also ensure that any solution involves the arrest and prosecution of Assad. The man clearly has no interest in protecting his own people, and is dependent on Putin's help to maintain his hold over the country.
Finally, it's undeniable that Putin is the puppet master in this theater. it's become painfully obvious that he lies with the same glib ease as his famous American sycophant, Donald Trump. Short of making this another Viet Nam-style proxy war, the West has little recourse except economic isolation. Putin's ambitions are becoming scarier by the day, and the West needs to make it clear there's a limit to how far they can be pushed.
8
You do not speak for me, Jim. This war for regime change is illegal and we have no right bombing in Syria. Syria is not a threat to the U.S. Why are we there?
2
We make a serious mistake, we then investigate and publicly admit the mistake. What is Russia's brutish and childlike response? To destroy a humanitarian aid convoy. Imagine a similarly childlike Trump, running our military. He would likely overreact and escalate like crazy. Imagine Putin in one side and Trump on the other. Forget the macho-crush rhetoric, imagine they eventually end up not getting along so well. Two children wrecking the world, for the sake of their own personal bravado. Presto, World War III.
10
You assume that the US bombing Syrian soldiers was a "mistake". And assume that the Russians bombed the convoy.
10
As Mark Thomason said, this could be another mistake. Friendly fire is, unfortunately, still very common in war. Russia is relying on Syrians on the ground for intelligence. That leaves a lot of room for error, and air strikes already have a lot of potential for deadly errors.
I do hope that whoever did it takes responsibility soon. If it was an intentional act, they should be tried for war crimes. If it was an accident, they need to make sure it doesn't happen again so that aid shipments can resume. This '1-2-3 Not Me' game is only hurting the civilians trapped in this conflict.
I do hope that whoever did it takes responsibility soon. If it was an intentional act, they should be tried for war crimes. If it was an accident, they need to make sure it doesn't happen again so that aid shipments can resume. This '1-2-3 Not Me' game is only hurting the civilians trapped in this conflict.
3
John Kerry is being played for a fool.
5
Sadly, that's too often the case. U.S. foreign policy seems to be based on naive good intentions.
3
Yeah. We should just give Syria to Russia. It's what The Conald would do.
1
So, today the aide convoys in Syria. Tomorrow Russian tanks roll into the Baltic Republics?
If Trump is elected, does Vladimir send the tanks into the Baltic Republics on January 21? And thank you, Donald, for your kind words -- signed, Vladimir. P.S. By the way I figured you for a patsy from the git go.
If Trump is elected, does Vladimir send the tanks into the Baltic Republics on January 21? And thank you, Donald, for your kind words -- signed, Vladimir. P.S. By the way I figured you for a patsy from the git go.
5
So let's sum up so far - we bomb a convey of Russian soldiers - they bomb a convey of Supplies.
What is the end-game here?
What is Obama proposing that looks like a coherent argument as to why American troops are here?
What is Hillary proposing that we do here?
This is Democratic party incoherence at its finest.
What is the end-game here?
What is Obama proposing that looks like a coherent argument as to why American troops are here?
What is Hillary proposing that we do here?
This is Democratic party incoherence at its finest.
7
Hey "folks", it was just an accident, a mistake. Just like the US slaughtering 62 Syrian soldiers fighting ISIS. Just like the US bombing hospitals. It's just a mistake.
All of you are so high and mighty, you've bought into this administration's blame at Russia for everything from hacking, throwing US elections, meddling here and meddling there. And not one solid piece of evidence, admitted by our own agencies, they've been involved in any of this.
Obama has slaughtered so many innocent men, women and children the last 7.5 years, but he gets a pass.
All of you are so high and mighty, you've bought into this administration's blame at Russia for everything from hacking, throwing US elections, meddling here and meddling there. And not one solid piece of evidence, admitted by our own agencies, they've been involved in any of this.
Obama has slaughtered so many innocent men, women and children the last 7.5 years, but he gets a pass.
30
...he gets a pass, and a Nobel Peace Prize.
6
What are you going to do about it, Bill?
Is this one of the traits that teflon don finds laudable in putin?
10:1 we will NOT be hearing condemnation from teflon trump
10:1 we will NOT be hearing condemnation from teflon trump
3
Nature abhors a vacuum.
When Obama allowed Assad to cross the "red line" with chemical weapons it was game over. Putin has shoved Ukraine, Crimea and Syria down our throats because he knows Obama won't respond.
When Obama allowed Assad to cross the "red line" with chemical weapons it was game over. Putin has shoved Ukraine, Crimea and Syria down our throats because he knows Obama won't respond.
4
That's true, but the "Red Line" was just one more indication of weakness from a president who's been waving white flags and apologizing for the USA since he was elected.
3
by all means lets have WWIII - even though the human race is headed for extinction - this will be faster.
4
Trumps buddy.
3
Stop me if I'm mistaken here but why are we reliant on ground covoys and cease fires to provide aide to our allies and civilians in Syria? Didn't we prevent the Soviet Union from annexing a larger portion of Germany through air drops alone? You know. The Berlin Air Drops. I have to think our technology and techniques have only improved in intervening years. If the Russians won't play ball, oh well. There are other ways.
6
As we've just read about the marvels of domestic drone delivery for commercial purposes here at home, why not aid to the Syrians?
3
Sorry. Correction. I meant the Berlin Airlift. The meaning remains the same though.
Anonymous sources, unnamed "officials", no evidence... just more of that Pulitzer Prize reporting, eh?
And let's not forget who bombed the MSF hospital in Afghanistan. It was not so long ago. Or is it only an outrage when the Russians(!!!) are responsible?
I can hear the drums of Hillary's new Cold War beating ever louder.
And let's not forget who bombed the MSF hospital in Afghanistan. It was not so long ago. Or is it only an outrage when the Russians(!!!) are responsible?
I can hear the drums of Hillary's new Cold War beating ever louder.
40
This is a horrible occurrence, a war crime, and an atrocity. However:
Before we become too holier than thou, it wasn't too long ago that our own armed forces were found to have bombed a hospital being run by Doctors Without Borders. Our "targeted" drone strikes regularly kill women and children, and to the best of my knowledge our government has not condemned the many documented atrocities committed by our good friends the Saudis in Yemen.
Given the ignorant blowhardism of candidate "the Donald", and his bromance with Putin, I imagine this sort of thing is what he means by "getting tough."
Before we become too holier than thou, it wasn't too long ago that our own armed forces were found to have bombed a hospital being run by Doctors Without Borders. Our "targeted" drone strikes regularly kill women and children, and to the best of my knowledge our government has not condemned the many documented atrocities committed by our good friends the Saudis in Yemen.
Given the ignorant blowhardism of candidate "the Donald", and his bromance with Putin, I imagine this sort of thing is what he means by "getting tough."
14
Yes, but they took responsibility. That is the major difference here. Accidents happen in war. However, taking responsibility is what we should expect from all these meddling forces. yes, including the USA.
2
hahahaha....
So "we took responsibility" makes it all ok in your world.
Jeez, I see now how we elected Obama twice.
So "we took responsibility" makes it all ok in your world.
Jeez, I see now how we elected Obama twice.
1
Hi, Jorja -
Oh, did we take responsibility? Who got court-martialed? Who went to Leavenworth? Which politicians resigned in disgrace? Did our drone policy get changed?
The answers: No; no one got court-martialed; no one went to Leavenworth; no politician resigned in disgrace; our drone policy did not get changed.
There is no substantial difference as far as I can see. The innocents we killed are just as dead.
Oh, did we take responsibility? Who got court-martialed? Who went to Leavenworth? Which politicians resigned in disgrace? Did our drone policy get changed?
The answers: No; no one got court-martialed; no one went to Leavenworth; no politician resigned in disgrace; our drone policy did not get changed.
There is no substantial difference as far as I can see. The innocents we killed are just as dead.
1
If our intelligence is so poor that we cannot say definitively who bombed the convoy --Russia or the Syrian regime then next thing you know we'll be bombing Syrian forces instead of ISIS with missles.
13
If those trucks on the side of the road were bombed from above why are they all in one piece? Look at the bullet holes on the front of the truck in the photo. They were fired from ground level.
14
You should leave the photo-interpretation to the experts. Anyway, if you look closely, you will see that the "holes" are elliptical and that the discoloration is not evenly distributed around the "holes".
1
Likely not a bomb attack, but from missiles. Missiles can hit you in the knees and leave your hat on top of your head.
3
Shoot a few holes into a car and you will be more of an expert than some analyst sitting in a cubical in Washington DC. The holes are circular, not elliptical. As for the discoloration, the truck has been burned.
Just Putin being the "strong leader" one of our Presidential candidates so admires.
23
Is that the same leader who said "Tell Vlad I'll have more flexibility after the election"?
2
Golly, perhaps this is the time for another "reset" with Russia.
7
It is sad that the Russians have this power to do such a terrible thing and almost get away with it.
5
Tit-for-tat? Kerry-Lavrov agreement? Peace in Syria? All jokes and jokers with real people perishing. Just to clarify, it is the civilians that I am sorry about.
I realize that this is horrid to say but somehow the best outcome of that hellish situation would be that most of the war participants perish, with the civilians and children entirely safe and sound. None of the warring fractions is a positive character in this tragedy and probably everything will be better without any of them.
And their helpers, Russia and USA, probably work hand-in-hand for that to happen, out of best intentions and humanitarian reasons, of course.
I realize that this is horrid to say but somehow the best outcome of that hellish situation would be that most of the war participants perish, with the civilians and children entirely safe and sound. None of the warring fractions is a positive character in this tragedy and probably everything will be better without any of them.
And their helpers, Russia and USA, probably work hand-in-hand for that to happen, out of best intentions and humanitarian reasons, of course.
1
This guy is Trump's man crush?
10
To any who doubt that Russia would destroy a convoy of humanitarian aid for political purposes, I suggest that you read the story of the Warsaw uprising in World War II.
In brief, the Red Army was advancing rapidly and was within ten miles of Warsaw when they appealed to the citizens of Warsaw to rise up against the Nazis. When the entire city responded and did rebel against the Germans, the Russians suddenly halted their advance under orders of Stalin. Since the Polish resistance had only small arms and gasoline to fight with, the Nazis systematically murdered virtually the entire Polish resistance -- men, women, and children -- while the Red Army stood by and did nothing. They even denyed Britain and America -- supposed allies at that time -- permission to use airfields they controlled to aid the Polish resistance. Between 150,000 and 200,000 Polish civilians died, mostly from mass executions
By this calculated strategy, Russia was able to use the Nazi army to destroy any Polish resistance to their occupation of the country a few months later and was able to set up a puppet communist government with little opposition.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_Uprising
In brief, the Red Army was advancing rapidly and was within ten miles of Warsaw when they appealed to the citizens of Warsaw to rise up against the Nazis. When the entire city responded and did rebel against the Germans, the Russians suddenly halted their advance under orders of Stalin. Since the Polish resistance had only small arms and gasoline to fight with, the Nazis systematically murdered virtually the entire Polish resistance -- men, women, and children -- while the Red Army stood by and did nothing. They even denyed Britain and America -- supposed allies at that time -- permission to use airfields they controlled to aid the Polish resistance. Between 150,000 and 200,000 Polish civilians died, mostly from mass executions
By this calculated strategy, Russia was able to use the Nazi army to destroy any Polish resistance to their occupation of the country a few months later and was able to set up a puppet communist government with little opposition.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_Uprising
13
Stalin is dead.
7
So, current NATO country killed hundreds of thousands of poles and you are blaming Russia? OK. Here is the real story though. Soviet army made some rapid advances and was consolidating its forces. Pro-western poles did not want Soviets to free Warsaw so they started the uprising to prevent this from happening. Unfortunately for them the things did not go the way they planned. Soviet army was not in position to help because it was not ready (those who started the uprising were staunchly anti-soviet and did not coordinate their actions with USSR). It's written in the same Wikipedia article you mentioned.
5
Anyone can see where this is headed. Russia and China are still fuming about the USA's recent installation of the (THAAD) missile defense system on the Korean Peninsula. No amount of downplaying THAAD capabilities will diminish this rift. The Russians and Chinese are not the friends of the USA. They never have been and never will be. Syria is just another tug of war between Putin, Obama and the UN. Get ready for an all out arms race, a new wave of nuclear fears and a frosty relationship between the US & Russia. Cold War II coming soon!
7
"Russia and China are still fuming about the USA's recent installation of the (THAAD) missile defense system on the Korean Peninsula."....If China doesn't like the installation of a missile defense system in South Korea maybe they might consider reigning in their North Korean lap dog who keeps setting off nuclear weapons. Give me a break - a missile defense system on one side and an offensive nuclear weapons on the other.
11
The Cold War is already here. I am more worried about WWIII coming soon.
1
Bombing U.N. trucks delivering humanitarian aid is unquestionably a war crime. Russia's veto on the U.N. Security Council will ensure that this war crime is never prosecuted. This case makes crystal clear the need for reform of the Security Council, particularly of the five permanent members' veto powers.
8
The security council exists to prevent World Wars... Not meant as a means to justify starting them
2
President Trump would take care of this!
He'd give the Russians whatever they wanted in an 'Artful Deal' kind of way.
He'd give the Russians whatever they wanted in an 'Artful Deal' kind of way.
7
President Obama will handle it in his usual way. He'll strongly condem the attack while Putin responds by laughing his but off at the weak Americans. Obama is just hoping nothing serious enough to require a response happens before he can get out of office so he can protect his legacy by blaming his incompetence on th next president.
3
Hockeydad, the only way this war is going to actually come to an end is to just let Assad and Russia crush the opposition. Otherwise, it will go on endlessly.
7
Maybe a deal is in order. Divvy up Syria and Iraq and squeeze ISIS out in the middle.
1
We bombed Syrian troops, the Russians bomb trucks delivering humanitarian aid, and we hail this agreement among the Russians, the Syrian government, the rebels, and our own troops. The way we pervert and manipulate language is simply obscene.
Donald Trump's loverboy. Do you hear me, Ohio?
7
The United States needs to reconsider their ties and treaties with Russia. Russia should claim their responsibilities for the air strike and receive punishment for them. The article also needs to mention that Russia "thought" it was a convoy with mortar earlier in the article.
Has the US every been "punished" for its drones killing women and children, for the Doctors without Borders hospital, for Iraq?
7
Whomever is responsible, this is a war crime.
3
Ok, it's a "war crime," so what? Hundreds of thousands of people have been killed in Syria, captured soldiers have been burned alive, women have been raped repeatedly and enslaved. Do you wants lawyers and courts to deal with this? The only justice they understand and deserve is total, brutal defeat.
1
...kind of like what Bush declared in Iraq? I would consider that to also be a war crime.
5
If Trump were President, this would never have happened. We need change quickly.
1
Your assertion makes no sense whatsoever.
5
This has the hallmarks of tit-for-tat retaliation of our "accidental" bombing the other day.
The situation has become absolutely horrific in so many parts of the world. I am coming around to our old policy of tolerating brutal dictatorships in the name of stability and engaging them constructively toward a path of human rights. Other than the few diehards, many foreign to Syria, what percentage of Syrians would take a reset to five years ago? How about Libyans? How many Iraqis would turn the clock back fifteen years? Do these people have more or less freedom than before? Anarchy is not freedom. Barbarism is not freedom. Syrians are free to starve, be held hostage to the whims of the warlord du jour, and free to die at the hands of outside powers using their land as a chessboard and their brothers and sisters and children as pawns. If that is liberty, give me death.
The situation has become absolutely horrific in so many parts of the world. I am coming around to our old policy of tolerating brutal dictatorships in the name of stability and engaging them constructively toward a path of human rights. Other than the few diehards, many foreign to Syria, what percentage of Syrians would take a reset to five years ago? How about Libyans? How many Iraqis would turn the clock back fifteen years? Do these people have more or less freedom than before? Anarchy is not freedom. Barbarism is not freedom. Syrians are free to starve, be held hostage to the whims of the warlord du jour, and free to die at the hands of outside powers using their land as a chessboard and their brothers and sisters and children as pawns. If that is liberty, give me death.
8
This is pretty much a non-story, as I would expect from The Times. It doesn't mention any evidence but only says what their government sources think is likely, or choose to say they do. Does anyone remember that governments lie, and ours lies more than most? The Times pretends to be ignorant of this simple truth. They don't fool me.
58
I'm not saying that Russia didn't do it. Maybe they did. Just saying that the article is vacuous. But most of the commentors, conditioned like Pavlov's dogs to salivate at the appearance of a certain que (Russia, Putin), appear to think it says something.
5
Since you're speaking of "evidence," where's yours?
1
Conspiracy theories much, Paul? Perhaps you'd prefer the info coming from RT (Russia Today) network- the propaganda arm of the Kremlin.
We DO have a free press - admittedly one that is fed with information by government officials but a press that can do independent investigating (ie: people on the ground)
Or is the hideous hand of evil manipulating all the facts just to keep us subservient to it's will - no wait, that's Vladimir Putin and his ilk (think Donald J Drumpf).
We DO have a free press - admittedly one that is fed with information by government officials but a press that can do independent investigating (ie: people on the ground)
Or is the hideous hand of evil manipulating all the facts just to keep us subservient to it's will - no wait, that's Vladimir Putin and his ilk (think Donald J Drumpf).
If the well-intentioned but horribly ineffectual policies of President Obama and Secretary Kerry don't quickly become more forceful Mr. Putin, and his sidekick Assad, will continue to laugh at us and the world will sink deeper into despair. The only calculus Assad and Putin understand is the one we implied and then squandered with the "red lines" talk. Reduce Assad's air force to rubble and tell the Russians to stand down or be blown down. Anything less is a further insult to those suffering in Aleppo and elsewhere.
4
This is the most reasoned comment on this whole sad affair that I have read - thank you. We can't stand by anymore. Yes the USA no doubt contributed to this dating back to the Iraq invasion, and ill advised forays into Libya and now Syria.
It's time to put a hellfire missile between Assad's eyes. The devil you don't know, in this case, can't be any worse than the one we do know.
It's time to put a hellfire missile between Assad's eyes. The devil you don't know, in this case, can't be any worse than the one we do know.
3
Yeah - vote for trump and everything will be okay
1
America, this is Donald Trump's buddy's handiwork. I think Trump and Putin would hit it off instantly, don't you?
4
Who was the official that made this charge? Where is the evidence? The NY Times need to develop some critical thinking skills.
46
Why would the Russians bomb a humanitarian convoy? They have been running regular convoys of humanitarian aid to the Donbass region of Ukraine so they would know what they look like. Didn't the USA just "mistakenly" attack and kill 60 Syrian soldiers? Has anyone accused the USA of bombing the convoy?
It appears that the USA government has decided that the Russians are the official evil enemy that Americans must blame and focus their hatred upon. After all, everyone knows they are manipulating our presidential elections. Hillary says so.
It appears that the USA government has decided that the Russians are the official evil enemy that Americans must blame and focus their hatred upon. After all, everyone knows they are manipulating our presidential elections. Hillary says so.
56
Simple. Keeping the war and suffering going so Putin can give his boy Trump an instant success.
1
You pose the question - Why would the Russians bomb a humanitarian convoy in Syria when they are allowing humanitarian aid in Ukraine....
It's because the humanitarian aid in Ukraine is headed to Russian backed Ukrainian separatists, while the ais convoy in Syria was headed to anti-Syrian government rebels whom the Russians oppose (the Russians support the regme in power - Assad). Make sense now, Aristotle?!
It's because the humanitarian aid in Ukraine is headed to Russian backed Ukrainian separatists, while the ais convoy in Syria was headed to anti-Syrian government rebels whom the Russians oppose (the Russians support the regme in power - Assad). Make sense now, Aristotle?!
4
Russia under Putin is not a force for good in the world, that is certain. Are you really as gullible as you sound.
2
I don't even see why the U.S. and its allies even makes deals with Russia because they get had every time. Enough of this foolishness!
8
it's time for Kerry to give up working with the russians, admit they are only interested in obstructionism, and let dod take the lead. nice try really. but consider who you are dealing with: putin, a completely evil man, about to become vice president of the usa.
13
Totally agree. Putin is just playing games, showing he's the main man while his stooge, Trump, is in his high chair.
3
I am a little confused.
Why were they delivering aid to the monster known as ISIS?
That is the real news not this pointless conspiracy theory.
Why were they delivering aid to the monster known as ISIS?
That is the real news not this pointless conspiracy theory.
5
You are confused. It was not to ISIS; they are about 200 miles away. Probably Putin wanting Kerry to grovel--he's good at that.
5
They were delivering humanitarian aid to civilians, just like the thousands of refugees we've seen streaming into Europe and elsewhere. Where do you get you're information?
9
Andrew, Why do you think this aid was going to ISIS?
Is this because you are a Russian troll here to make propaganda?
You are here to be making the propaganda very good for your much happiness!
Great!
Is this because you are a Russian troll here to make propaganda?
You are here to be making the propaganda very good for your much happiness!
Great!
5
And if the Republican candidate wins the presidential election what is it that would stop him from ordering this sort of abhorrence?
5
There is no Republican candidate.
2
Hey we've bombed thousands of innocent people under Obama, Bush, Clinton, Bush, Reagan, etc. Doubt Hillary or Donald will change much.
17
Gosh, what if he bombs a hospital run by Doctors Without Borders?
3
An aid convoy, a commercial airplane, it doesn't matter. Russia doesn't pay for war crimes. America doesn't. Israel doesn't. Assad doesn't. War is messy and apparently we accept that.
6
We mistakenly bomb Syrian troops who are on our side and killing 62. A day of so later the Russians inadvertently bomb a relief convey.
Literally, it's the Gang That Couldn't Shoot Straight.
Maybe we should follow the advice of T.E. Lawrence (of Arabia) from about 100 years ago and let these Arab tribes work out their own differences. It's really not our business. We should just resolve to get along with whomever comes out on top.
That said, our dimwitted leaders, Bush and Cheney, created ISIS, (Islamic State In Syria), by overthrowing Saddam for no good reason. As such, we realy are responsible for getting rid of ISIS and restoring the status quo in Iraq and northern Syria.
Literally, it's the Gang That Couldn't Shoot Straight.
Maybe we should follow the advice of T.E. Lawrence (of Arabia) from about 100 years ago and let these Arab tribes work out their own differences. It's really not our business. We should just resolve to get along with whomever comes out on top.
That said, our dimwitted leaders, Bush and Cheney, created ISIS, (Islamic State In Syria), by overthrowing Saddam for no good reason. As such, we realy are responsible for getting rid of ISIS and restoring the status quo in Iraq and northern Syria.
120
The Syrian troops are on our side? The same troops that used poison gas to kill 1300 women and children, those troops? What sort of Wonderland are we in?
2
"We mistakenly bomb Syrian troops who are on our side and killing 62"
-That is not correct! The 62 Syrian troops who were killed are with the Assad regime. We do not support the Assad regime!
-That is not correct! The 62 Syrian troops who were killed are with the Assad regime. We do not support the Assad regime!
3
Obama stepped in, late, but not due to criticism of inaction.
Obama stepped in because it is not being solved and over a million have died.
Obama stepped in because it is not being solved and over a million have died.
1
Putin will make Stalin look like a boy scout.
6
And Trump will look like Putin.
3
I dunno, VW, I can't see Trump ever getting the abs of Putin.
And Jimmy, thankfully that's doubtful, Stalin killed millions and relocated millions more to Siberia. Putin is probably only going to wind up having caused the deaths of half a million, at most.
And Jimmy, thankfully that's doubtful, Stalin killed millions and relocated millions more to Siberia. Putin is probably only going to wind up having caused the deaths of half a million, at most.
1
This is obviously payback by the Russians at the behest of Assad for the US bombing of Syrian forces a few days ago.
Genocide and other war crimes are the stock and trade of the Assad regime now aided and abetted by Russia, and murder is a favorite Putin approach to quelling political dissent at home, so who is surprised by this latest incident of depravity.
Hopefully someday, someway Assad and Putin will be brought to justice for the war crimes they have committed.
Genocide and other war crimes are the stock and trade of the Assad regime now aided and abetted by Russia, and murder is a favorite Putin approach to quelling political dissent at home, so who is surprised by this latest incident of depravity.
Hopefully someday, someway Assad and Putin will be brought to justice for the war crimes they have committed.
6
First you need to bring Bush to trial first if you want to be fair
53
also Cheney, Rummy ... I probably missed a few ...
9
Maybe you have not noticed that Bush has been out of office for 8 years during which a new U.S. regime determined to oust Assad has been in charge.
Is anyone really surprised that this was perpetrated by the Russians? You know, that so-called democracy where inconvenient people are routinely killed and where everyone in an official capacity seems to be corrupt? Mr. Ban said it well: just when you think Assad and his cronies (e.g., Russia) cannot sink any lower, they do.
It is unbelievable that almost half of U.S. voters support a lying, thieving, bigoted con man with nefarious ties to Russia. Show us your taxes Donald Trump!
It is unbelievable that almost half of U.S. voters support a lying, thieving, bigoted con man with nefarious ties to Russia. Show us your taxes Donald Trump!
205
Show taxes? I don't have to show you no stinkin Taxes. "None of your business."
1
We're hiring him to handle everyone's business. Small price to pay to lead the world.
2
Dear President Putin:
We deeply regret that a bunker busting 14000 kg bomb released today from a US war plane fell into a compound wiping out President Bashar Al-Assad, his generals, and assorted staff.
There was a "terrorist pickup" in the area which was obviously using the compound as cover for its operations.
Signed,
USA
We deeply regret that a bunker busting 14000 kg bomb released today from a US war plane fell into a compound wiping out President Bashar Al-Assad, his generals, and assorted staff.
There was a "terrorist pickup" in the area which was obviously using the compound as cover for its operations.
Signed,
USA
56
Good job like that will work like the last 4 times you tried regime change. Maybe it is time Americans produce something useful.
7
So you are advocating assassination of any foreign leader the U.S. finds in disfavor, just like the most ruthless and lawless of gangsters? Have you ever heard of international law?
5
I wonder if it would be that easy. Sure is tempting.
When this story first broke I assumed we knew who was responsible. I say this because the quality of our intelligence regarding this kind of thing is so good. This is the key sentence in the story: "We have no indication that anything other than Russian tactical aircraft were in the air at the time the convoy was struck, to include both strike and reconnaissance aircraft.” The larger picture is our intelligence knows about every aircraft that is in the air and whose they are. So we're hedging slightly only because there's that tiniest of chances we made some kind of error. The other thing going on is that we held off for a bit on our announcement to give the Russians a chance to confess, as unlikely as that was. Voters, as you view these pictures and read this story please recall that the person behind these attacks, Mr. Putin, is the guy Mr. Trump is constantly expressing his admiration for.
382
A little skepticism will be good for you!
Your hatred for Trump and thus by extension, Putin is not helping you see objectively.
A little skepticism is healthy. Almost like eating an apple a day.
Not saying Russia didn't do it, but there's equally good chance they someone else did it. There are too many players in Syria with different agenda.
Remember, we have our agenda too!
Your hatred for Trump and thus by extension, Putin is not helping you see objectively.
A little skepticism is healthy. Almost like eating an apple a day.
Not saying Russia didn't do it, but there's equally good chance they someone else did it. There are too many players in Syria with different agenda.
Remember, we have our agenda too!
4
Is this all really an effort to scuttle the cease fire? First it's hard to explain why negotiating the cease fire between the US and Russia took so long in the first place. Each side has surrogates that depend on their super power backer for arms, funds and supplies. So why can't both sides lay down the law and say "cease or else?"
The missing piece to the stories of the last two days is Turkey. We know Turkey has alternately attacked Syria, sponsored attacks by others, backed ISIS, attacked ISIS and more recently attacked the Kurds, who were operating as front line forces against ISIS. Do the Turks have a motive in ending the ceasefire?
The US did 'mistakenly' bomb Syrian troops allowing ISIS to gain crucial ground and now Russia does the same with a UN convoy. Were they retaliating for yesterdays bombing? Or were they tricked into thinking this was an Ai Nusra convoy and now look like naked aggressors?
There's the fog of war, then there's the art of deception practiced by combatants on both sides. Then there are the Syrian people, whose welfare seems to have gotten lost by both sides. Let's hope for the sake of the Syrian's that cooler heads prevail and the ceasefire holds.
The missing piece to the stories of the last two days is Turkey. We know Turkey has alternately attacked Syria, sponsored attacks by others, backed ISIS, attacked ISIS and more recently attacked the Kurds, who were operating as front line forces against ISIS. Do the Turks have a motive in ending the ceasefire?
The US did 'mistakenly' bomb Syrian troops allowing ISIS to gain crucial ground and now Russia does the same with a UN convoy. Were they retaliating for yesterdays bombing? Or were they tricked into thinking this was an Ai Nusra convoy and now look like naked aggressors?
There's the fog of war, then there's the art of deception practiced by combatants on both sides. Then there are the Syrian people, whose welfare seems to have gotten lost by both sides. Let's hope for the sake of the Syrian's that cooler heads prevail and the ceasefire holds.
5
As Russians pointed out, there is no signs of air assault in the available pictures. Most likely the terrorists simply unloaded the cargo (the convoy was in rebel held territory) and burned the trucks to blame Russia. With everything being video-filmed these days, the lack of any video strongly tells us that this is a staged provocation. US have already blamed Russian for all sorts of sins and never provided any evidence. How is that possible?
5
Sadly, this is just one of the numerous tragedies in which aid workers were targeted. The brave, dedicated individuals who put their lives on the line to give the most vulnerable a chance at living deserve recognition and protection.
252
Sadly? No. Heinous, outrageous, criminal, perverse there are thousand more words to describe this act for what it is, what similar acts have been and what they will always be - Depraved.
Putin as usual. Blowing up apartment buildings in Russia, bombing humanitarian aid convoys in Syria...let's not have any illusions about him.
25
If this is a mistake, another UN humanitarian aid convey can quickly follow and help save people.
Mistakes do happen as we know ourselves.
If another mistake were to occur impacting another United Nations humanitarian aid convoy, it would have very different implications and repercussions.
Mistakes do happen as we know ourselves.
If another mistake were to occur impacting another United Nations humanitarian aid convoy, it would have very different implications and repercussions.
4
...said Boris Johnson, Britain’s foreign secretary, “Quite frankly, the Kerry-Lavrov process is the only show in town, and we’ve got to get that show back on the road.”
turkey and iran remain part of the show, although also perhaps on the shoulder, in the ditch, or straddling the median.
turkey and iran remain part of the show, although also perhaps on the shoulder, in the ditch, or straddling the median.
3
This is what you get with Donald Trump. Way to go, Vlad the Destroyer!
2
America needs to get out of Syria it is a mess over there. We need to get out of regime change, nation building everyone we have touched has been a disaster. I say give Assad back his country and let him rebuild it. America really has no room to talk either we bombed a hospital repeatedly and now we have set a precedent on this issue.
12
If the U.S. government determines that it is, in fact, likely this was a Russian airstrike, it would be fair to ask Donald Trump at the first debate what his reaction is. And, for the moderator to be prepared with follow-up interrogatives if necessary.
8
The Doomsday clock clicks forward another notch.
Russia needs a stern rebuke. Who has the will and the strength to stop this madness.
Russia needs a stern rebuke. Who has the will and the strength to stop this madness.
2
Honestly, nobody. Who's willing to go to war with the Russians, in Russia?
3
I think Mario's right, and this is why it's not affecting the Doomsday clock. This is what we call a "brushfire" war, in that it's fairly contained, and expected to burn itself out at some point, once the population and infrastructure is sufficiently destroyed. Nobody's going to start a nuclear war over Syria.
1
Trump would probably blame Clinton for this aid convey bombing in lieu of the Russians.
9
The pictures themselves leave room for suspicion. Air attack and ground attack usually leave certain tale tale marks. Most attack aircraft are not armed with small caliber armaments. Strafing leaves behind roads and ground that is very chewed up. The roads by the truck are intact. The truck with it's hood open has some obvious bullet holes, not made by a 20mm cannon. At the rear airfoil of the truck there are several traceable bullet paths both entry and exit, obviously made by small caliber weapons. The angle of holes on the truck's air foil arc upward and not downward indicating shots fired from the ground. Vehicles hit by high explosives, napalm or incendiary are virtually always burned out hulks. yet the vehicles fuel tanks are intact, and the paint is not even scorched. There was obviously an explosion inside the trucks trailer from a small device probably a grenade. The force of the explosion pushes outward. Yet if an aerial bomb had hit this truck, there would have been nothing left but pieces of twisted metal. Damage to surrounding buildings in the top photo prove nothing, since Aleppo is thoroughly gutted and in ruins anyway. Most people have not seen the results of large ordinance such as the Hellfire missile or Russian counterpart or even the massive impact of the average general purpose bombs. These photos themselves seem to have a lot of reason for skepticism.
73
it always warms my heart to know there are a few competent observers and thinkers around. this is a serious subject that beggars data and not more agitprop of hate and mindless derision
5
"Most people have not seen the results of large ordinance such as the Hellfire missile ..."
The Times has published photos of vehicles destroyed in air strikes. Search Google images for more photos.
Taliban Chief Targeted by Drone Strike in Pakistan, Signaling a U.S. Shift
By MUJIB MASHAL
MAY 22, 2016
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/23/world/asia/afghanistan-taliban-leader-...
NATO Strike Magnifies Divide on Afghan War
By STEPHEN FARRELL and RICHARD A. OPPEL Jr.
SEPT. 4, 2009
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/05/world/asia/05afghan.html
The Times has published photos of vehicles destroyed in air strikes. Search Google images for more photos.
Taliban Chief Targeted by Drone Strike in Pakistan, Signaling a U.S. Shift
By MUJIB MASHAL
MAY 22, 2016
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/23/world/asia/afghanistan-taliban-leader-...
NATO Strike Magnifies Divide on Afghan War
By STEPHEN FARRELL and RICHARD A. OPPEL Jr.
SEPT. 4, 2009
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/05/world/asia/05afghan.html
1
The truck is torn up with shrapnel. The Russians aren't using guided munitions, they claim to have figured out how to drop dumb bombs with a new technology... which is about as accurate as a WWII U. S. bomber... but it's Russia say they're always making wild claims. Basically, they aren't making direct hits on targets, so bombs hit nearby and send shrapnel up and out. Their tactics in Syria have been cavalier, to put it mildly, as they are in every conflict. But it keeps the financial costs of war down and their okay with killing innocent people so long as they mostly get the enemy somewhere along the way.
2
Words fail me.
4
You can't really be surprised. Russia and Syria have been bombing civilians where no discernible military objective is being sought. They don't care. And no one will stop them.
The US could at least stop cooperating with the thugs.
The US could at least stop cooperating with the thugs.
5
We just bombed and killed Syrian soldiers, could there have been Russian advisors amongst them? This was nothing short of a Putin threat to the US, stay out. We should just leave, let them own this mess.
23
If we're waiting for the Russians to come clean, we'll be pursuing a fool's errand. The Russians will never admit to anything that is even remotely akin to a war crime. Its power of dissimulation and obfuscation are profound. Assad's government will simply tag along in Russia's shadow of denial and disinformation. If the Russians did it, then WE have to prove it, and then WE have to pursue some kind of prosecution. Don't wait for the Russians to participate in anything that involves "the search for truth." Get real for God's sake...
6
Did anyone prosecute the US for Iraq and countless bombings of civilians?
6
So, Trump wants the refugees to stay in Syria, and his friend Putin wants to bomb any humanitarian supplies they can scrape together. There is no moral standard in America when these men are looked upon favorably by such a large percentage of Americans. Cowards both.
87
Looks like Russia doesn't want a cease fire.
Or maybe this was just simple retaliation for the US airstrike against the Syrian forces over the weekend? And maybe now the cease fire can start in earnest?
Or does the US now feel that we, or another faction, must get one more retaliatory bombing in before the cease fire can really start?
Or maybe this was just simple retaliation for the US airstrike against the Syrian forces over the weekend? And maybe now the cease fire can start in earnest?
Or does the US now feel that we, or another faction, must get one more retaliatory bombing in before the cease fire can really start?
6
What an awful act. To think of the sacrifice of those who work on the ground to help the beleaguered Syrian people...
The act provided further confirmation of the evilness of Donald Trump's admirer, as if we needed it.
The act provided further confirmation of the evilness of Donald Trump's admirer, as if we needed it.
38
Of course, Russian bombed the convoy. Who else would? The US would not. Turkey, no. The Syrian government is hobbled. NO ONE ELSE HAS THAT CAPABILITY.
If Putin wants to have a proxy war, I say, bring it. Russia is, and always has been in disarray. Its only a matter of time before Russians start dying there in numbers that ordinary Russians will not tolerate. It is long past time to take the kid gloves off with the Neo-Tsar. He has succeeded in manipulating his nation into regressing back into serfs who live in fear and love being told what to do and what to think. And the irony is that neither the USA or the Neo-USSR care about ordinary Syrians.
If Putin wants to have a proxy war, I say, bring it. Russia is, and always has been in disarray. Its only a matter of time before Russians start dying there in numbers that ordinary Russians will not tolerate. It is long past time to take the kid gloves off with the Neo-Tsar. He has succeeded in manipulating his nation into regressing back into serfs who live in fear and love being told what to do and what to think. And the irony is that neither the USA or the Neo-USSR care about ordinary Syrians.
5
The Turks might, but they have shown more support for ISIS in helping fighters pass through, as Erdogan is an islamist himself. Has Mr. Trump congratulated Mr Putin on this victory?
2
Going to war with the Russians, over Syria? Are you kidding?
7
Turkish support of the isis is based on money. The could care less what isis does, as long as the money and bribes keep flowing into turkish pockets and the violence stays beyond the borders of Turkey.
Let us know when it gets figured out. In the meanwhile focus on the election while we have the chance and tell Mr. Ban Moon to jaw jaw all he wants for now.
1
I'm pretty sure Russian forces hit the aid convoy, it matches with their goals and methods. I'm not sure that it matters.
Years ago I kept insisting that the Syrian conflict would rage out of control, kill hundreds of thousands, and spread past its borders. Nobody did anything much about it, and all that came to pass. Today I don't see any solution to Syria's conflict aside from the obvious, total depopulation of the area due to dehydration caused by global warming. And that will happen at some point, whatever goes on beforehand.
The U.S. and Russia can't really ally to stop this madness because their goals are opposite. Russia wants to restore the fascist rule of Assad, because he owes them millions of rubles and if he's out, nobody will ever pay that debt. They want to do this by killing as many people as needed, and they have no regards for humanitarian concerns.
The U.S. wants to create democracy in Syria, and that is impossible. The natives hate each other far too much to work together building a democracy, and they have no democratic traditions.
Likewise, there really doesn't seem to be any way to end this war without killing off most of the people in Syria. The Alawites hate the Sunnis and vice versa, they both hate the Kurds, everyone hates the Yazidis, and so on. The last remaining Jewish guy in Syria hates everybody too.
So unfortunate as this incident is, I just don't see things ever getting better in Syria, sorry.
Years ago I kept insisting that the Syrian conflict would rage out of control, kill hundreds of thousands, and spread past its borders. Nobody did anything much about it, and all that came to pass. Today I don't see any solution to Syria's conflict aside from the obvious, total depopulation of the area due to dehydration caused by global warming. And that will happen at some point, whatever goes on beforehand.
The U.S. and Russia can't really ally to stop this madness because their goals are opposite. Russia wants to restore the fascist rule of Assad, because he owes them millions of rubles and if he's out, nobody will ever pay that debt. They want to do this by killing as many people as needed, and they have no regards for humanitarian concerns.
The U.S. wants to create democracy in Syria, and that is impossible. The natives hate each other far too much to work together building a democracy, and they have no democratic traditions.
Likewise, there really doesn't seem to be any way to end this war without killing off most of the people in Syria. The Alawites hate the Sunnis and vice versa, they both hate the Kurds, everyone hates the Yazidis, and so on. The last remaining Jewish guy in Syria hates everybody too.
So unfortunate as this incident is, I just don't see things ever getting better in Syria, sorry.
25
Dan writes: The U.S. wants to create democracy in Syria,.....
The U.S. wants regime change in Syria and it has been the agenda for years. It is a little hypocritical to suggest all these poor Syrian people are being killed for democracy when our allies, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Qatar, etc. are anything but democracies. A little critical thinking, please?
The U.S. wants regime change in Syria and it has been the agenda for years. It is a little hypocritical to suggest all these poor Syrian people are being killed for democracy when our allies, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Qatar, etc. are anything but democracies. A little critical thinking, please?
1
Dear E.S.,
Oh I thought I was being rather critical there, about a critical matter too. But your distinction makes no difference; the last two times the U.S. tried to create a democracy out of tribally-torn desert lands, under G.W. Bush, it wound up being regime change and failing states. Whether the U.S. aimed for a democracy in Syria or just a replacement tyrant, it'd work out the same way here.
Oh I thought I was being rather critical there, about a critical matter too. But your distinction makes no difference; the last two times the U.S. tried to create a democracy out of tribally-torn desert lands, under G.W. Bush, it wound up being regime change and failing states. Whether the U.S. aimed for a democracy in Syria or just a replacement tyrant, it'd work out the same way here.
1
There are only so many suspects who could have theoretically done this: USA, Russia, Syria, Turkey and Israel. Who else? I would say it was Russia.
2
Lets not be so hard on the Russians. It was probably just some Russian soldiers on furlough who brought their MIG's on holiday. Nothing Putin can do about this. Boys will be boys after all.
2
Is everyone except the US walking back the "Russian airstrike"narrative? Seems the Jihadists ran another false flag operation as they did with the Sarin attack
5
Ah, the jihadists, thankfully, don't own or operate any bombers.
4
"On Tuesday the United Nations has reversed allegations that its aid convoy in Syria was the target of an airstrike. "We are not in a position to determine whether these were in fact airstrikes. We are in a position to say that the convoy was attacked," UN humanitarian spokesman Jens Laerke said."
2
Seems like the US government is desperate to distract attention away from its blunder the other day of bombing Syrian soldiers and allowing ISIS to capture territory.
8
Such a great and powerful leader Mr. Putin is that he would be unafraid to risk world condemnation for what appears to be a blatant war crime. . How unfortunate that his principal American admirer is not yet in the White House to help him smooth over the situation. Heck, they could even have peace talks at Mar-del-Largo. I'm sure they could get a good rate.
1
One MUST not think that it is beyond probability that Russians did not bomb the aid convoy. Russians are FAMOUS for cowardly acts in killing innocent unarmed civilians - whether it is shooting down Korean Air Lines Flight 007 on September 1, 1983 or more recent Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 on 17 July 2014.
The fact that Russians are cowards is well known. They never owned up any of their brutal deeds. Though it is not to say that they are the only ones who carry out such reprehensible acts, what the Russians do belong to another class. The disproportionate large scale brutality carried out by Russians is second to none.
There are few countries who can equal the blood-soaked history of Russia in modern times. The Stalinist mindset - originally starting with the Bolshevik revolution - is firmly embedded in Russian psyche. It is EXTREMELY unlikely that they will EVER emerge from that mindset any time soon - Putin or no Putin.
The fact that Russians are cowards is well known. They never owned up any of their brutal deeds. Though it is not to say that they are the only ones who carry out such reprehensible acts, what the Russians do belong to another class. The disproportionate large scale brutality carried out by Russians is second to none.
There are few countries who can equal the blood-soaked history of Russia in modern times. The Stalinist mindset - originally starting with the Bolshevik revolution - is firmly embedded in Russian psyche. It is EXTREMELY unlikely that they will EVER emerge from that mindset any time soon - Putin or no Putin.
7
Let's not stereotype about entire nation based on the action its government. All Russians have Stalinist mindset embedded in their psyche, seriously? How many Russian have you ever met? I am Russian, I am certainly not a coward, I hate stalinism and I am very offended by your remark.
I lived in both countries and from my personal experience, there are more good people than bad ones everywhere.
Cowards? Tell that to 20 millions of Russians who lost their lives in WW2, including my grandfather. Cowards, they probably deserved it!
I lived in both countries and from my personal experience, there are more good people than bad ones everywhere.
Cowards? Tell that to 20 millions of Russians who lost their lives in WW2, including my grandfather. Cowards, they probably deserved it!
1
People are slaughtered, deprived of essential aid, humanity's name is given another black mark in an endless series of black marks and the bombers are called "cowards."
If only that word were powerful enough to act as a deterrent. But it isn't - not on a children's playground, not here.
If only that word were powerful enough to act as a deterrent. But it isn't - not on a children's playground, not here.
43
Maybe Donnie could call his buddy and see why he's bombing relief supplies.
2
So the question is will the US fly air cover for the next aid convoy and be fully prepared to shoot down Russian and Syrian aircraft that attempt attack it? If not we should pull out of the area and let the chips fall where they may.
6
I agree - Kerry needs to up the ante --- And don't even bother trying to assign blame or expect Putin to give him a straight answer - perhaps announce thru the U.N. that The U.S, (with any allies that care to help) will protect all aid convoys until the war is over - remember the Berlin airlift ?
1
This is an excellent idea.
Yes the Berlin airlift and the Cold War are the operative model. The Russian government are the same people who ran the Soviet Union. For then the Cold War never ended. I see no reason the US should not make it clear that Syrian or Russion aircraft attacking a humanitarian convoy will be shot down and that Syrian troops or air power attacking the rebel forces we support will be attacked from the air by US air power. We should also heavily arm reliable rebel forces and make aide contingent on reliability.
If we are not willing to do these things we should simply abandon the theater. It is not clear to me that the fight in this area is worth the lives of our military and our time and money of our efforts unless we are willing to do what is necessary to make sure the outcome we favor prevails in the long run.
If we are not willing to do these things we should simply abandon the theater. It is not clear to me that the fight in this area is worth the lives of our military and our time and money of our efforts unless we are willing to do what is necessary to make sure the outcome we favor prevails in the long run.
6
We are witnessing yet another case of "Grand Naivete" in the management of Foreign Policy matters by John Kerry and his W-H bosses Barack Obama and Susan Rice in their desperate quest to show some accomplishments in Syria.
John Kerry who excels in his pompous premature declarations, reminiscent of his earlier platitudes such as "I was for it, before I was was against it", had forgotten he was negotiating with the same Moscow band of Thugs who had invaded & confiscated Crimea, and grabbed parts of Georgia before that.
In pursuit of such thuggish conquests, killing aid workers in a humanitarian convoy comes as naturally to V. Putin as it does to his bloody-ally Assad.
John Kerry who excels in his pompous premature declarations, reminiscent of his earlier platitudes such as "I was for it, before I was was against it", had forgotten he was negotiating with the same Moscow band of Thugs who had invaded & confiscated Crimea, and grabbed parts of Georgia before that.
In pursuit of such thuggish conquests, killing aid workers in a humanitarian convoy comes as naturally to V. Putin as it does to his bloody-ally Assad.
5
And what of the role of Trump and his bromance of Putin the butcher?
Don Trump, ignorant as he is, to our knowledge has not run U.S. Policy, and much less issued the ill-fated (& ridiculed) "Red Line" Ultimatum which made a joke of U.S. Presidents' usual resolve.
1
And Russian officials say US may have been responsible.
Who we believe?
Who we believe?
6
US frequently admits that it bombs wrong targets by mistake, including Syrian army just days ago and a Doctors Wothout Borders hospital which was communicating with the US as it was bombed... I dont know if Russia Will publicly admit to this perhaps out of fear that it will be used to start an open conflict with the US. If we can accept that the US makes frequent militariste mais takes. Why is not the same benefit of a doubt given to Russia?
8
Who would ever trust the Russians?
4
Trump, and the bozos that trust him.
10
We need to know who committed this terrible ,tragic attack on the Humanitarian convoy.
If it was the Russians the World needs to condemn Putin unanimously .
He has shot down civilian aircraft, attacked sovereign nations, bankrupted his country and murdered his opponents .he has also supported Assad who has committed genocide.
We need to intensify sanctions and hit Putin where it hurts, his ego by relocating the 2018 Soccer World Cup to another country.
Putin is the idol of Donald Trump and Trump wants to be our President.
Then we will have the axis of evil , Trump and Putin
If it was the Russians the World needs to condemn Putin unanimously .
He has shot down civilian aircraft, attacked sovereign nations, bankrupted his country and murdered his opponents .he has also supported Assad who has committed genocide.
We need to intensify sanctions and hit Putin where it hurts, his ego by relocating the 2018 Soccer World Cup to another country.
Putin is the idol of Donald Trump and Trump wants to be our President.
Then we will have the axis of evil , Trump and Putin
15
US is also guilty of invaiding sovereign nations and bombing civilian targets by mistake, such as a Doctors without Borders hospital which was in communication with the US as it was bombed. The last time there was talk of axis of evil, we invaded a country on faulty intelligence. The war rages on and is at least partially responsible for the rise of ISIS. US also supports terrorist groups, such as the Taliban during the cold war and the "moderate" Islamists fighting in Syria (watch the video of them dragging around a dead pilot they shot down while chantions Allahu Akhbar and read the Daily Mail article about one such group beheading a boy spy). As a left over from what should be a past era, US has some terrible allies, most notably Saudi Arabia, which suppresses all dissent, religiouns other than a conservative Islam, and treats women as property of men. Ultimately, Russia is a modern Western and diverse country fighting the same Islamic terror at home and abroad. Stop frothing at the mouth for another disasterous war (a war with Russia would be madness). Russia is logically our ally as it was when they fought the Nazis at a cost of 20 million Russian lives.
3
If you cared to read my post carefully you would agree that firstly I am not critical of the Russian people , just Putin.
Secondly I did not advocate another war just the relocation of the World Cup, which is a peaceful but effective way of getting Putin,s attention.
The tragic deaths of so many Russians at Hitlers hands was very tragic, equally tragic was the death of so many Russians at the hands of Stalin.
The Russians for generations have been victims of their leaders and continue to be so.
Secondly I did not advocate another war just the relocation of the World Cup, which is a peaceful but effective way of getting Putin,s attention.
The tragic deaths of so many Russians at Hitlers hands was very tragic, equally tragic was the death of so many Russians at the hands of Stalin.
The Russians for generations have been victims of their leaders and continue to be so.
2
Much to my chagrin this is nothing new for the Russians. Remember the Russians downed airline MH 17 over Ukraine? They denied that too.
4
They did? When was that proven?
8
MAYBE Russia was responsible for the convoy attack. But most of the world understands that the U.S. objective of removing Assad is perhaps the number one reason that a half million Syrians are dead. So let's have a little humility and get on with the cease fire.
160
Amazing the extent to which useful idiots in the West fall prey to Russian disinformation campaigns.
The insistence of Assad on remaining in power is the reason that a half million Syrians are dead. Most of those half million have been killed by Assad and his Russian enablers.
You apparently have access to Western new sources. Are you not paying attention?
The insistence of Assad on remaining in power is the reason that a half million Syrians are dead. Most of those half million have been killed by Assad and his Russian enablers.
You apparently have access to Western new sources. Are you not paying attention?
15
No, the reason half a million Syrians are dead is that Assad is a homicidal maniac, and then the other homicidal maniacs of Isis, Nusra and Hezbollah got into the act.
13
@Greg
You think that "Western news sources" are free of propaganda and disinformation? That's rich.
Just why is the US in Syria? Illegally, I might add.
You think that "Western news sources" are free of propaganda and disinformation? That's rich.
Just why is the US in Syria? Illegally, I might add.
10
I am not surprised that it was the Russians. The Syrian are not good enough to do this. And don't wait for the Russians to admit this crime. It would be a pleasant surprise if they came clean. Kerry is wasting his time.
5
In an Op-Ed piece today, President Carter says, "...the United States and Russia must find ways to work beyond the lack of trust that undermined the previous cease-fire...."
Sadly for one's hopes for peace and a resolution to the ongoing horror, the fundamental problem is not merely lack of trust or conflicting desires for control of turf. That is true for some parties, but for others the basic goal is the destruction of their perceived enemies. Not everyone wants to stop the killing across the board.
If we want to truly understand the region and maintain any hope for contributing to a lessening of its violence, we must cease the tendency to view what goes on there through the lens of Western political, social, and moral values.
Sadly for one's hopes for peace and a resolution to the ongoing horror, the fundamental problem is not merely lack of trust or conflicting desires for control of turf. That is true for some parties, but for others the basic goal is the destruction of their perceived enemies. Not everyone wants to stop the killing across the board.
If we want to truly understand the region and maintain any hope for contributing to a lessening of its violence, we must cease the tendency to view what goes on there through the lens of Western political, social, and moral values.
3
The United States must advocate for these aid shipments to be delivered again.
Surely we could provide air support and ground support to make this happen.
I feel so sad and discouraged. I can hardly imagine how the Syrians who are desperate are feeling. They are counting on us!
Surely we could provide air support and ground support to make this happen.
I feel so sad and discouraged. I can hardly imagine how the Syrians who are desperate are feeling. They are counting on us!
3
What does "air support" mean? Do you mean shooting down Russian planes?
3
yes ... they've been playing this game in places other than Syria, and they are constantly probing NATO defenses in Latvia, Estonia, etc ... probably to see how long before we react, each time a little longer ....
1
@CD
And what do you think will happen after we shoot down a Russian plane? What will their response be? What will the US do after that? etc.
Russia isn't like the defenseless small country the US is so fond of bombing.
And what do you think will happen after we shoot down a Russian plane? What will their response be? What will the US do after that? etc.
Russia isn't like the defenseless small country the US is so fond of bombing.
3
I'd like to see reporting on whether the Russians see this as the same sort of mistake as the American bombing of the Syrian Army that greatly advanced ISIS a few days ago, whatever sort of mistake that may be.
Perhaps it was a real mistake, see the reference to rebels mixed into the convoy. Perhaps the Russians see it as just as understandable as the American mistake, and so are not sympathetic.
Perhaps the Russians are convinced the American attack was not a real mistake, done "accidentally on purpose," and they are retaliating in kind. That is not as unreasonable as it might first seem, since rebels would have eaten and used that aid too, not just civilians, and this reimposes on siege.
I am not saying it is either way, but I'd like to see reporting that explores these possibilites. It seems an important and obvious question.
Perhaps it was a real mistake, see the reference to rebels mixed into the convoy. Perhaps the Russians see it as just as understandable as the American mistake, and so are not sympathetic.
Perhaps the Russians are convinced the American attack was not a real mistake, done "accidentally on purpose," and they are retaliating in kind. That is not as unreasonable as it might first seem, since rebels would have eaten and used that aid too, not just civilians, and this reimposes on siege.
I am not saying it is either way, but I'd like to see reporting that explores these possibilites. It seems an important and obvious question.
136
Dear Mark Thomason,
I doubt it was a mistake, this seems to fit with Russia's overall goals. The aid convoy was providing food and medicine to the people of Syria. Russia wants Assad back in control, and that requires devastating the population until they are hurting too badly to keep fighting. Best not to let them have such shipments that would keep them alive and fighting longer, in Putin's view.
I doubt it was a mistake, this seems to fit with Russia's overall goals. The aid convoy was providing food and medicine to the people of Syria. Russia wants Assad back in control, and that requires devastating the population until they are hurting too badly to keep fighting. Best not to let them have such shipments that would keep them alive and fighting longer, in Putin's view.
5
Perhaps the Russians saw the American mistake as an opportunity to make a strategic strike against resources going to American backed rebels.
It puts the U.S. in a tough position to point fingers in this case. Not that pointing fingers made any difference when a Russian missile shot that commercial flight down.
It puts the U.S. in a tough position to point fingers in this case. Not that pointing fingers made any difference when a Russian missile shot that commercial flight down.
6
It isn't unreasonable that the Russians attacked a humanitarian convoy at all. This is typical of the Russians. They are ignorant, backward, and run by the dictatorship of Putin. It is clear that the Russians did this to escalate the situation. Russia is doomed by this obvious aggression that they perceive will be unmatched by the United States. Russia will regret this childish behavior. Russia is like a dog that needs training.
1