Bravo to Mr. Cohen, who even-handedly presents his subjects as intelligent and allows them to articulate their rational and reasonable arguments for their conclusions. The dismissal of the reasonableness of some of their points will continue leading this country on a bad path, if not in November than in the future.
1
I find it interesting that folks think the world will never change. It's always someone's fault that things are not the same. The world changes. We drive electric cars, 3D printers can make products, I buy from Amazon and I no longer take pictures with a Kodak camera or wear a poodle skirt. Yes, this resulted in disruptions in the industries that supplied these things. Yes, we need retraining for the folks caught in the transition. This is where government comes in, or should come in, with retraining, adjustment assistance, and better education for our children. But I do not want to go back to the horse and buggy or my poodle skirt. And we, the people involved, will need to change to fit into the new reality.
75
I can understand the sense of loss and frustration. Tell us what we can do to help--because:
1. Statements like the one below aren't comprehensible to me. Trump was the only one whose father left him indecently wealthy--silver spoon and now gold-plated toilet bowls.
“Obama’s probably never known hardship. He and Hillary don’t get it. At least Trump don’t hold nothing back: If he don’t like something, he tells you about it.”
2. How can someone say that Trump " he tells it the way it is" when he's constantly caught out lying? Objectively, Hillary Clinton is infinitely more honest than Trump: how did they get the name-calling to stick to her? Unlike Trump, she's hard-working and informed.
3. What in the world do you think Trump will do for you? He's a rich guy looking to lower his taxes (IF he pays any at all) by putting even more advantageous (to him) tax laws in place regarding real estate, etc. Trump was born spoiled and rich.
4. Help us come up with solutions for the slowing and end of the coal industry. What can our nation do to help your lives during this inevitable transition? It's easy to be clever and say "I dig coal", but we all know that this is changing. You are core Americans and have done a great deal for our country. Other than asking that coal be mined forever, which can't happen, what can we do to repay you?
1. Statements like the one below aren't comprehensible to me. Trump was the only one whose father left him indecently wealthy--silver spoon and now gold-plated toilet bowls.
“Obama’s probably never known hardship. He and Hillary don’t get it. At least Trump don’t hold nothing back: If he don’t like something, he tells you about it.”
2. How can someone say that Trump " he tells it the way it is" when he's constantly caught out lying? Objectively, Hillary Clinton is infinitely more honest than Trump: how did they get the name-calling to stick to her? Unlike Trump, she's hard-working and informed.
3. What in the world do you think Trump will do for you? He's a rich guy looking to lower his taxes (IF he pays any at all) by putting even more advantageous (to him) tax laws in place regarding real estate, etc. Trump was born spoiled and rich.
4. Help us come up with solutions for the slowing and end of the coal industry. What can our nation do to help your lives during this inevitable transition? It's easy to be clever and say "I dig coal", but we all know that this is changing. You are core Americans and have done a great deal for our country. Other than asking that coal be mined forever, which can't happen, what can we do to repay you?
97
Appalachia is so insular that whenever I go home people say to me, "you've been out in The World. What's it like?" People who may never have been further than 10 miles from home, own a house they can't sell, and have no skill other than digging coal, or working in a defunct industry such as steel, have nowhere to go.
54
Lots of hillbilly bashing emanating from tbe "progressive" segregated Upper West Side snobby set. Despite myriad hardships, Appalachian residing whites maintain a low murder rate. Serve with distinction in U.S.A.F. (disproportionate number of Medal of Honor recipients from West Virginia).
23
"General Motors moved its stamping plant there to Mexico. The decent middle-class life is gone.”
That statement shows that in some ways, the outcome of World War II was a tragedy for the United States. We were the only industrialized nation left standing, and this created an entire generation or two who believed that they were entitled to live like kings (relative to most of the human population) because they spent 40 hours/week bending metal.
Of course, the rest of the world is full of able-bodied people, and now it's full of factories too. Trump's reality show antics won't change that fact. If you want "The "decent middle-class life," you need to be able to do something that a billion Chinese peasants or a hundred million Mexican laborers can't. One would think that "freedom lovin' Real Americans" would understand and embrace this reality of Western-style free-market capitalism.
That statement shows that in some ways, the outcome of World War II was a tragedy for the United States. We were the only industrialized nation left standing, and this created an entire generation or two who believed that they were entitled to live like kings (relative to most of the human population) because they spent 40 hours/week bending metal.
Of course, the rest of the world is full of able-bodied people, and now it's full of factories too. Trump's reality show antics won't change that fact. If you want "The "decent middle-class life," you need to be able to do something that a billion Chinese peasants or a hundred million Mexican laborers can't. One would think that "freedom lovin' Real Americans" would understand and embrace this reality of Western-style free-market capitalism.
32
Great article. I am a HRC supporter. Please explain in another article why the well off and educated will vote for Trump. Maybe interviews in Dallas would be a good start. Understand the pain in the article and hence the vote but can't understand the well off and educated voting for Trump. ( I believe the people in the article are intelligent but just misguided because capitalism puts them where they are. I am for capitalism but it has a reality to it - constant deconstruction as Allen Greenspan stated.).
27
The problem with those who are terrified their age-old "industries" are being taken from them is: those industries may benefit their local area, but they're killing US. Coal - flat-out, plain and simple: IS one of the leading causes of the global warming they scoff at. I can try to sympathize with them, but when they refuse to believe the very clear science that shows THEIR coal is killing MY trees, THEIR coal is literally devastating OUR planet, negatively shifting agricultural regions and has already begun to threaten low-lying coastal areas, THEIR coal is responsible for a growing number of health problems far removed from their region: I find it difficult to have any compassion for them. Instead of becoming innovative, they're adamantly living in the past. They're refusing to let go of a dead industry but suspiciously blame everyone else for its demise. The big difference is that telegraphy, corset-manufacturing and not even whaling were as destructive to the rest of us as their coal is. The truly sad thing is that the proof is absolutely irrefutable: our current, rapidly-escalating climate change IS the result of man. But rather than accept the fact they're a contributing factor, they stubbornly cling to that destruction - and even while admitting a vote for Trump is a terrible danger, they just don't care. They'd rather bring us ALL down rather than face reality.
51
I'm amazed by the lack of outrage at Mitch McConnell. He's their boy, right, who has the opportunity to introduce legislation that would benefit those people and others in occupations that are transitioning out of the changing economy. But of course that idea is risible; this Congress is fixated on obstructionism and making Obama look bad, even as their own constituencies suffer.
58
Deplorable!
That is what Hillary Clinton thinks of at least half of the citizens in the United States.
Hillary's recent speech gives insight into how she feels about the people who she would be elected to serve. Make no mistake, we are all here to serve her. Electing Hillary would be a huge mistake. The campaign is all about money and power, and she can't get enough.
While her orange opponent definitely has his flaws, it seems Trump really wants to help EVERYONE who wants to be part of this country. This desire to serve all the people of United States is exactly what has the neo-conservatives scared. The far right doesn't want Trump because they really are afraid he will not just cater to their positions on the issues. Hillary will only help those who helped her get elected. That is the starkest difference between the 2 candidates.
Trump may be orange and he may say outrageous things; but Hillary has done outrageous things, and ate her core, she is as white as white bread. Trump has been accused of being a narcissist, but in a weird way, that will cause him to serve all the people because he will want to be accepted by all the people.
That is what Hillary Clinton thinks of at least half of the citizens in the United States.
Hillary's recent speech gives insight into how she feels about the people who she would be elected to serve. Make no mistake, we are all here to serve her. Electing Hillary would be a huge mistake. The campaign is all about money and power, and she can't get enough.
While her orange opponent definitely has his flaws, it seems Trump really wants to help EVERYONE who wants to be part of this country. This desire to serve all the people of United States is exactly what has the neo-conservatives scared. The far right doesn't want Trump because they really are afraid he will not just cater to their positions on the issues. Hillary will only help those who helped her get elected. That is the starkest difference between the 2 candidates.
Trump may be orange and he may say outrageous things; but Hillary has done outrageous things, and ate her core, she is as white as white bread. Trump has been accused of being a narcissist, but in a weird way, that will cause him to serve all the people because he will want to be accepted by all the people.
21
It amazes me that the people depicted in this article never seem to recognize that Congress has far more impact on their individual lives than does the President--and that their own Senator McConnell has played a substantial role in preventing the programs that could have funded jobs and helped cushion these people against the collapse of coal. But they are brainwashed by people like Mr. Bassett, who tell them coal is a victim of President Obama and not a victim of free-market forces that prefer cheaper natural gas and less costly Western coal. My fellow Kentuckians are being lied to every day, and Trump is lying to them now.
98
Politicians can and do ignore their citizens primary concerns (food, shelter, health.....) for quite a long time. But sooner or later these concerns become primary again and they all act surprised.
12
The plight of the people faced with their secure, predicable world crumbling around them is understandable and deserves sympathy. People working in coal, lumber, mining, ranching and oil industries have always extolled the virtue of ruggedness of their characters and uniquely American virtues of individualism- doing it alone without government helps and handouts. The people working in these industries are smug about possessing these virtues and often praise private sector as the god; notwithstanding the billions of subsides doled out for many of these industries. The irony is that the same capitalist, profit motive has now made natural gas very competitive and cleaner energy option. This is happening regardless of what Obama or EPA done. A conservative Supreme Court or even Trump, if elected, may abolish EPA altogether but neither cannot stop the onslaught of American made natural gas that is a pure capitalist play; many utilities even in coal producing regions turning to natural gas. It is time that the people in the coal, ranching, oil and mining stop blaming government for everything while their own industries created their empires with government’s tacit help and direct or indirect subsidies. Some of these industries are being defeated by same capitalist and profit motives and creating new opportunities. Hillary Clinton’s promise of creating new jobs for miners through retraining and economic diversification is more realistic than Trump’s promise of bringing coal back.
32
Amen to this article. Education and retraining and moving to where jobs are. That is our society today.
25
As an Indian - American liberal I struggle with articles like this and recent books such as Hillbilly Elegy by JD Vance. On the one hand, I feel for working class white Americans who have gotten the short end of the globalization stick, and I do feel that coastal liberal elites often treat these Americans with disdain while downplaying their very real social and economic problems. I have traveled all throughout Appalachia and find it to be a culturally - rich region full of stunning natural beauty and warm and friendly people.
On the other hand, I struggle to empathize with people who treat myself and other minorities with such hatred and contempt (notice that we must refer to them as "working class even if they are unemployed but Blacks and other minorities are contemptuously called welfare Queens and other derogatory names). Six months ago I would have deplored Hillary Clinton 's "basket of deplorables" comment both because it is stupid politically but more importantly because it is contemptuous and dismissive of a large swatch of my fellow Americans who we as liberals should be listening to, not dismissing. But when those voters embrace a man who has demonized all non - white Christians, it is asking too much of me and other non - white liberals to treat these people with empathy and respect when they would never extend the same courtesy to me and my fellow immigrants /minorities.
On the other hand, I struggle to empathize with people who treat myself and other minorities with such hatred and contempt (notice that we must refer to them as "working class even if they are unemployed but Blacks and other minorities are contemptuously called welfare Queens and other derogatory names). Six months ago I would have deplored Hillary Clinton 's "basket of deplorables" comment both because it is stupid politically but more importantly because it is contemptuous and dismissive of a large swatch of my fellow Americans who we as liberals should be listening to, not dismissing. But when those voters embrace a man who has demonized all non - white Christians, it is asking too much of me and other non - white liberals to treat these people with empathy and respect when they would never extend the same courtesy to me and my fellow immigrants /minorities.
77
Coal mining was already declining when Kennedy campaigned in 1960.
19
Jim Webb's lie that the Democratic Party "has now built its constituency based on ethnic groups other than white working people" disqualifies him from future service as a Democrat. The article says, Kentucky's unemployment rate is 4.9%: this is close to the US all-time low of 4.2% What's eating them, then? It's not the economy, stupid. It's the loss of privilege. The yellow dogs deserted us because we believe in equality for all. To their ears equality means less for them. They're against social equality and there's nothing we Democrats can do about it, because we are not going to lick that wound.
20
If we start to let these people decide the fate of our country, we're done.
31
"Liberal" arrogance, Mr. Cohen? Under a Democratic governor, Kentucky had an HCA exchange that was a huge success. Are liberals supposed to go around apologizing for being right instead of extremely right? Are they supposed to tell these people the things about Trump that they obviously don't want to know? And, if/when that ignorance breaks the back of this country with a Trump victory, will these people learn anything from their mistakes? Or will it just be easier to go on blaming liberals, people most of them have never met?
Sadly, no, no, no, and yes.
Sadly, no, no, no, and yes.
32
This is a finely written piece, so good that you don't know where prose ends and poetry begins. Perhaps this is Cohen's comfort zone,his vocation, writing about domestic affairs rather than roving the world as a correspondent, and trying to explore issues in depth that he really doesn't understand because he is not native to the region or country about which he expatiates. But here in present article reader gets the feeling that he is "bien dans son assiette, bien dans sa peau!"He is not preaching to us, not advocating for a policy, AM's decision to allow a million Syrian migrants into Germany,just one example, not inveighing against the right, but exploring the not so benign neglect of which rural Kentucky has fallen victim.and where conditions r not likely to improve in the near future, despite the good intentions of various levels of government.Anti poverty programs r great in theory, but when funds r not given directly to needy recipients, but allocated to agencies, third parties, corruption and theft r the inevitable results.Never forget LBJ's anti poverty programs, and his zeal about ending destitution in America. I applauded President's good intentions. Then I read that Livingston Wingate, high ranking official, had made off with $400,000 of funds destined for the poor, and came to conclusion that he was not the only one guilty of a "detournement des fonds."Best solution is to give money directly to recipients. Cut out the middle man."Chapeau" for Roger Cohen.
8
I grew up in KY about 15 miles from the town of Paris, KY cited in this article. Their county high school was our long-time rival.
Paris, KY is not in Appalachia, not even close. It is in the heart of Bluegrass country and is dominated by large horse farms and many wealthy owners. It's a world away from the coal-centric economy of Hazard, KY. And it's disingenuous to associate the two areas of KY in the same article and to tacitly imply that all of KY is dependent on coal.
One of the largest employers in that region of KY is the large Toyota plant located nearby in Georgetown, KY. Yes...hard core manufacturing is alive and well just a few miles away from where your article originates. You should do an article about the people who work there and enjoy the generous benefits of those skilled, well paying jobs.
Paris, KY is not in Appalachia, not even close. It is in the heart of Bluegrass country and is dominated by large horse farms and many wealthy owners. It's a world away from the coal-centric economy of Hazard, KY. And it's disingenuous to associate the two areas of KY in the same article and to tacitly imply that all of KY is dependent on coal.
One of the largest employers in that region of KY is the large Toyota plant located nearby in Georgetown, KY. Yes...hard core manufacturing is alive and well just a few miles away from where your article originates. You should do an article about the people who work there and enjoy the generous benefits of those skilled, well paying jobs.
45
Amen to David Tussey's article.
6
Bingo, Mr. Tussel. I grew up in Kentucky myself and also wondered whether Cohen's geographic, economic and journalistic GPS's had all broken as he placed both Hazard, home to generations of poverty, and Paris, Kentucky with its thriving blue-blood thoroughbred horse breeding industry, in Appalachia.
14
So they blame Obama for the demise of the coal industry and think Trump will bring it all back.
Is anybody really that naive in this day and age, let alone an entire region?
Is anybody really that naive in this day and age, let alone an entire region?
41
If you have never lost your job then it is difficult to understand what it feels like not to know what the future has in store for you, loss of healthcare and children to feed. I have been in this situation but my life turnd out well with a better job. These people have little future to look forward to and unfortunatly they think Trump is the solutiuon.. New industries have to be created to help these people and those who lost their jobs due to factories moving overseas because coal and factoriess are not coming back..
15
This is just scary. Sad and frightening.
8
It's very sad: a way of life based on coal no longer sustainable. Who to blame? How about starting with the coal/fossil fuel industry? If horse/buggies then had the power of Big Coal of yesteryear, we would have had a money/government alliance propping up horses/buggies and dirt roads long after their time had passed. Would that we were as smart as Saudi Arabia; that nation is fully engaged in growing new economies for the fast approaching day when their one asset, oil, is no longer valuable to the world.
Without wise, ethical leadership out of changing times, nations are ripe for a demagogue; the vulnerable populations for exploitation are the disenfranchised who are overwhelmed with their own problems and likely only educated of events outside of their own small towns via junk media.
I used to wonder how the Germans of post WWI could have been so wrong on Hitler; now I know. They were hurting economically and Hitler offered easy targets (they don't have to be real targets) and promised to make Germany great again. Hitler was not unique to that one time/place; we have found our own and he's giving his opponent a good run for her money (gargantuan as it is).
Without wise, ethical leadership out of changing times, nations are ripe for a demagogue; the vulnerable populations for exploitation are the disenfranchised who are overwhelmed with their own problems and likely only educated of events outside of their own small towns via junk media.
I used to wonder how the Germans of post WWI could have been so wrong on Hitler; now I know. They were hurting economically and Hitler offered easy targets (they don't have to be real targets) and promised to make Germany great again. Hitler was not unique to that one time/place; we have found our own and he's giving his opponent a good run for her money (gargantuan as it is).
24
If I were a candidate for this office and thought it best to cut back on coal production in states like Kentucky I would use some of my campaign money to make a preliminary study of topography of a section of a state like Kentucky, prevailing winds and wind turbines and present it in ads and speeches as evidence of a real awareness of the need for a replacement for work for coal workers...Evidence of a candidate giving actual thought to the problem would be of greater value to the voters than just words...
6
Steve Smith, the unemployed miner, is, at least, a pragmatist and getting it, even if he is somewhat reluctant to do so. "This place is about dried up," he tells the reporter. "A job at Wendy's is the only thing left. We may have to move." As many have commented, not too long ago, when jobs changed and work dried up, people did move. Steve and his family should get ready to do so. Cruel and tough? What about the family roots? Good points. Good questions. In the case of Appalachia, the truth is that coal is over and dead. And the reporter intelligently and honestly notes that Trump can't reverse globalization, can't save coal. Last hurrah, people, for a way of life that, in truth, can't come to an end soon enough. Those were horrible jobs with not enough pay for the risks. I come from Slovak immigrants who worked in coal mines and took every opportunity that came their way to get out. Today's miners should do the same.
19
Once again, the foolishness of nominating Clinton over Sanders is made plain.
Not that a President Clinton wouldn't do wonderful things for the struggling people of Appalachia. It's just that giving her the opportunity to do so may give the world a President Trump.
Not that a President Clinton wouldn't do wonderful things for the struggling people of Appalachia. It's just that giving her the opportunity to do so may give the world a President Trump.
4
It's really hard to feel much empathy for these folks even though I know I should try harder. Many of these people interviewed here exude this sense of entitlement based on their racial and national identity that is undeserved. They bitch about some jobs going to China or Mexico, but are completely clueless about what happened to African Americans when the auto jobs left Michigan to move to Kentucky. Further, they have completely failed to invest in their schools. Whose fault is that? Greedy Kentuckians who refuse to raise taxes and educate their young, that's who. And their failed schools leaves their voters as dumb as bricks and easy to fleece. And Trump knows exactly how to do that because he's spent decades fleecing people and defaulting on his debts to others.
27
Do you empathise with the work/middle class African-Americans priced out of their homes by greedy San Francisco techies/speculators?
14
The author writes "They are looking for 'someone who will articulate the truth of their disenfranchisement.'" And why not. But how quickly we forget. Even with Sanders's pro-environment stand against coal, he appealed to people's intelligence and offered viable solutions for getting blue collar Americans back to work.
Had the DNC and media not rigged the primary against Sanders, he would be sweeping the country in an unprecedented landslide, probably even convincing Kentucky to join him.
How sad...what a mess. Entirely avoidable.
Had the DNC and media not rigged the primary against Sanders, he would be sweeping the country in an unprecedented landslide, probably even convincing Kentucky to join him.
How sad...what a mess. Entirely avoidable.
9
It's rather a shame. These folks are like the folks in Kansas. Vote for the party who does the least for them and then wonder what went wrong. I feel for them in their ignorance.
21
In response to these American's expressing their fears and feelings of abandonment by the Government, we would all be smart to create specific programs to engage them in the desperately needed infrastructure tasks that have been put off and put off. Our energy grid, highways, dams, bridges, and other critical aspects of life need work that will create hundreds of thousands of good jobs. These are hard working people who don't want charity, they want self-respect that comes from working. Clinton should outline such a scheme instead of making stupid, stupid comments like calling people a
"basket of deplorables." America, come on!
"basket of deplorables." America, come on!
13
Mrs. Clinton has such a scheme, but since it will be called "socialism" by the likes of this woman with bad hair, Clinton restrains from discussing it much. I refuse to cry for people who have demonized that which would have helped them over these past eight years. This is the news from Kentucky, home of the no-toad McConnell who prevented Obama's every move toward betterment for these Americans? Oh well.
19
I first arrived in Hazard in 1972. This story could have been written then. It was written; books were written, time and again these 44 years, about Perry County where Hazard is county seat or maybe nearby Breathitt or Pike or Harlan Counties – always the same.
Hazard was a hardscrabble place. There was money in mining – no small amount flowing promptly to wealthy owners living elsewhere, but money as well for mine workers. There was also black lung disease and mining injuries and even the threat of mine disasters.
Miners were poor, not because mining pay was low, but because few miners survive healthy to earn good paying wages over lifetimes as most Americans expect.
The poverty was ubiquitous – the reason my working there.
And, there was – as it remains - beautiful natural scenery.
Obama is not Eastern Kentucky’s problem and Trump no solution. These lovely mountains offer more than coal. Nowhere in Appalachia can one ever be too far from booming cities. There’s opportunity in tourism and opportunity in affordable real estate. There’s opportunity for small enterprises serving those large cities only a few short hours from any given town in Appalachia.
These opportunities have been smothered in coal dust and devastated landscapes.
Beyond opportunity for life in those places, there’s unlimited opportunity for any American anywhere in America. Young Kentuckians could choose. They can leave. They can do what most Americans do – follow jobs to cities.
Hazard was a hardscrabble place. There was money in mining – no small amount flowing promptly to wealthy owners living elsewhere, but money as well for mine workers. There was also black lung disease and mining injuries and even the threat of mine disasters.
Miners were poor, not because mining pay was low, but because few miners survive healthy to earn good paying wages over lifetimes as most Americans expect.
The poverty was ubiquitous – the reason my working there.
And, there was – as it remains - beautiful natural scenery.
Obama is not Eastern Kentucky’s problem and Trump no solution. These lovely mountains offer more than coal. Nowhere in Appalachia can one ever be too far from booming cities. There’s opportunity in tourism and opportunity in affordable real estate. There’s opportunity for small enterprises serving those large cities only a few short hours from any given town in Appalachia.
These opportunities have been smothered in coal dust and devastated landscapes.
Beyond opportunity for life in those places, there’s unlimited opportunity for any American anywhere in America. Young Kentuckians could choose. They can leave. They can do what most Americans do – follow jobs to cities.
21
The key here is that high-paying, non-degree jobs existed in the coal industry and now that has rapidly declined. But why are these people railing against the Govmt when this is a result of fracking, a revolutionary and cheap way of obtaining hydrocarbons for fuel (natural gas)? The market has taken away their jobs not the Feds. I grew up in Altoona PA in the 50s. When the railroad changed from building steam locomotives there to buying diesels from GM and others, there were no demagogues exploiting it for political gain. Trump's screeds on returning to coal by lifting regulations is one of the most clear-cut examples of his disingenuousness. Might as well promise a return to steam locomotives. Disgusting.
13
This story reads a little bit like J. D. Vance's "Hillbilly Elegy." Kentucky's Appalachians are trapped in a way of life whose time has passed, and are looking at a future that is increasingly dark. They are grasping desperately for a life preserver, but it's pretty clear that Trump is going to throw them an anvil instead. Appalachians are going to have to go where the jobs are, and not rely on some President or other to keep them afloat. In the 1950's, Appalachians went north to Ohio. They'll have to look further afield for good jobs now, but they are out there -- just not in coal or steel.
14
As a former rhetoric teacher, I know the danger of "playing the Hitler card," but it cries to be played. The anger of Trump supporters who feel they have been victimized perfectly echoes the anger of post-WWI Germans who were forced to pay millions in reparations by a punitive Treaty of Versailles, the anger of people who were victims of a government which initiated hyperinflation by printing more money to pay those reparations -- I recall a historic photo of a turnip priced at 5 million Marks, the anger of people who felt their national pride had been insulted, the fear of a people feeling threatened by trade unionists, communists, and other groups deemed non-Aryan. Then, like now, people support someone "different," someone outside the mainstream, someone they felt could bring change and could be controlled if needed. Hitler was elected in 1933. Once in office, however, he couldn't be controlled, and the world paid the price.
23
Republicans have dumbed down the electorate so that the good people of Appalachia fail to recognize Trump for what he is. He's the sort that you don't invite to your church (and that says something). He's the sort you don't allow your children around--and if you do--never unsupervised. He's the sort you don't lend money to if you want to see it again. He's the sort that can't be trusted to keep his word. I mean--they know who this sort of character is--they are a dime a dozen up here, scamming seniors for their medication and running a shadow opiode and meth economy. But maybe they need a better word for what he is--Rich White Trash.
23
What's the matter with Kentucky?
It's exactly the same as the matter with Kansas that Thomas Franks identified so well.
There's discontent in them thar hills, cos' there ain't nothin' to replace that coal and no one seems to care. And it hasn't happened fast enough.
If your plans to rebuild infrastructure and create jobs in the process were undermined by a toxic congress, you need to go out and tell those folks about it every day, so they get it.
Trump is great at mining the discontent in the miners.
He can't do anything about their plight, but at least he knows that he has to say that he will and act like he cares.
Early on, people kept telling Obama he had to use his bully pulpit like FDR did. Did he not do it because he feared fear itself?
It's a little late now.
One thing we can be certain of if Trump wins, he'll use his bully pulpit - as a bully; which is the pity of it all.
It's exactly the same as the matter with Kansas that Thomas Franks identified so well.
There's discontent in them thar hills, cos' there ain't nothin' to replace that coal and no one seems to care. And it hasn't happened fast enough.
If your plans to rebuild infrastructure and create jobs in the process were undermined by a toxic congress, you need to go out and tell those folks about it every day, so they get it.
Trump is great at mining the discontent in the miners.
He can't do anything about their plight, but at least he knows that he has to say that he will and act like he cares.
Early on, people kept telling Obama he had to use his bully pulpit like FDR did. Did he not do it because he feared fear itself?
It's a little late now.
One thing we can be certain of if Trump wins, he'll use his bully pulpit - as a bully; which is the pity of it all.
14
It is people like these Parisians from Ky, who have allowed the retrograde GOP set agendas that hurt them and block proposals that would have advanced their chances at getting ahead. Blinded by huge ignorance most Appalachians believe life sits still, countries are forever stuck in the same mode and change never happens. By the way they vote, they are sticking it to themselves!
stuck in time, ignorant,
stuck in time, ignorant,
18
I have some pity for the people of Kentucky, who are featured in this article, but it is pity, and not empathy. In my particular case, I grew up on a small farm and I decided to run that farm after my father could no longer do it. However, the agricultural business changed and moved from small farms to large corporate farms. Del Monte closed its small packing plants and the sugar beet factories went out of business or were moved to other places where they had access to huge acreage. I tried for a while to make it work, by working graveyard while my wife and I tried to make a go of it. Finally I saw the writing on the wall and with 4 children I went back to school. It wasn't easy it was a long struggle, but I achieved a rewarding career at the end of it. I could have stayed back on my little farm and wallowed in self-pity, blamed the government, and lived out my life as a miserable individual. Coal is changing, the world is changing, we can do little about that, but we still retain some control over our own personal lives. We can change our circumstances or we can blame our bad fortune and embrace misery.
41
We've heard this anger before. When forest industry collapsed in the Northwest and when the auto industry collapsed in the Midwest, angry voters raised their fists at the establishment. "Anything is better than this!" they exclaimed. "What do we have to lose!" Then they voted stupid. Same thing is happening now in coal country. Trump is for suckers. Kentucky will do MUCH better with a Democratic President and Congress. Vote Hillary. I am.
20
Thomas Frank and Bernie Sanders have been absolutely correct about the state of the Democratic party. Too bad this publication did such a miserable job of making that case during the Democratic primary, otherwise we might have ended up with Mr. Sanders, who indisputably spoke better to these issues and polled consistently better against Trump... It is no wonder that these people in KY leap straight into the jaws of their ultimate oppressor. The wonder is that the Times offers this piece as if they only now see the problem. File under, "I saw this one coming from a mile away."
6
I wonder what skilled laborers such as coal miners would do if government regulations-- which would include those for health and safety, of course-- are all removed as Mr. Trump wants to accomplish, and the mine owners are allowed to conduct business as they choose? 'He who doesn't learn from history is condemned to repeat it.'
11
I grew up on coal, too. My parent's Philadelphia row house was heated by coal for years. Then one night, when I was a senior in high school, I woke up screaming. Carbon monoxide had invaded our house. Had I not screamed for whatever reason, my entire family would have been killed by that noxious gas. I am damn near 63. Still today I can smell gas seeping when no one else can. I immediately get a headache.
My family finally saved enough to get rid of that coal stove and started heating the house with gas. Nobody had to make sure the flute was open. Nobody had to shovel ashes and put them out Monday morning. I have had 3 homes as an adult; not one was heated by coal. How many people still heat their homes by coal? I am betting those people who yearn for the mines are also heating their homes with gas. The coal town my mother-in-law grew up in no longer exists because it was prevalent that those mining towns were here today and gone tomorrow. The problem is not Obama and the EPA, the problem is coal was going by way of the dinosaur and the people who made a living from it saw the signs and didn't prepare.
As Moon Lynn said, "It's coal mine, moonshine, or moving on down the line." When two out of three have failed, what the hell are those people still doing there?
My family finally saved enough to get rid of that coal stove and started heating the house with gas. Nobody had to make sure the flute was open. Nobody had to shovel ashes and put them out Monday morning. I have had 3 homes as an adult; not one was heated by coal. How many people still heat their homes by coal? I am betting those people who yearn for the mines are also heating their homes with gas. The coal town my mother-in-law grew up in no longer exists because it was prevalent that those mining towns were here today and gone tomorrow. The problem is not Obama and the EPA, the problem is coal was going by way of the dinosaur and the people who made a living from it saw the signs and didn't prepare.
As Moon Lynn said, "It's coal mine, moonshine, or moving on down the line." When two out of three have failed, what the hell are those people still doing there?
11
I got your 'spectacular' right here: Kentucky and West Virginia are federal welfare states. Democrats need to wake up and realize they aren't coming back. Devil take the hindmost, y'all.
7
What's so sad is that change isn't coming. The kind of change that will turn the coal business around, bring back jobs that have been replaced by computers or moved overseas--that change isn't coming. So voting out of anger makes as much sense as anything, I guess.
These good people really need a champion. It isn't Clinton or Trump or McConnell, that's for sure.
These good people really need a champion. It isn't Clinton or Trump or McConnell, that's for sure.
5
Dear People of Rural Kentucky and Ohio:
You are not alone! I travel from coast to coast and spend time with families all over the country who express these same frustrations. Don't lose sight of the power of your vote. BUT, a vote for Trump is a vote you will regret whether he wins or loses. Our country was not founded on, or gotten this far, following negative, sorry, distasteful people like Trump. He kisses the rear of Putin! Is there a clearer indicator of what he will be if elected. We are better than Trump. Our country does have hundreds of thousands of jobs that need doing to transform itself in to a modern state. Please don't give up now because we need you hard working, decent folks to fill those.
You are not alone! I travel from coast to coast and spend time with families all over the country who express these same frustrations. Don't lose sight of the power of your vote. BUT, a vote for Trump is a vote you will regret whether he wins or loses. Our country was not founded on, or gotten this far, following negative, sorry, distasteful people like Trump. He kisses the rear of Putin! Is there a clearer indicator of what he will be if elected. We are better than Trump. Our country does have hundreds of thousands of jobs that need doing to transform itself in to a modern state. Please don't give up now because we need you hard working, decent folks to fill those.
14
I certainly see why people vote for another party if their economic circumstances change for the worse. But you might as well spit into the wind as vote for Trump. He could reverse EPA regulations, but this would only delay the inevitable. "Coal was never going to last forever." The abundance of natural gas is also a large part of declining coal production. But even if Trump helped a little, then what? You can't just reverse EPA regulations without swallowing the rest of his dangerous proposals, which would outweigh any short term benefit.
Just to name a few - increased inequality (big tax cuts for the rich and corps), tanking the economy (trade wars, deregulation), social unrest (deportation force), more wars abroad, which Americans oppose and we can't afford.
A real failure here is politicians playing games, blaming others but not working to help the people affected. Not everyone should or even needs to go to college. But we are really behind in creating alternatives through advanced technical training, promoting new business development in Appalachia, compensating families with small business loans, educational assistance, whatever it takes.
People also need to assume some responsibility and adapt to an ever changing world. Recently, I have struggled a lot in this regard and am older too. But my situation isn't the fault of the "Obama economy" any more than coal is. The world does not stand still and is often indifferent to our troubles.
Just to name a few - increased inequality (big tax cuts for the rich and corps), tanking the economy (trade wars, deregulation), social unrest (deportation force), more wars abroad, which Americans oppose and we can't afford.
A real failure here is politicians playing games, blaming others but not working to help the people affected. Not everyone should or even needs to go to college. But we are really behind in creating alternatives through advanced technical training, promoting new business development in Appalachia, compensating families with small business loans, educational assistance, whatever it takes.
People also need to assume some responsibility and adapt to an ever changing world. Recently, I have struggled a lot in this regard and am older too. But my situation isn't the fault of the "Obama economy" any more than coal is. The world does not stand still and is often indifferent to our troubles.
6
Paris the Bluegrass. It is NOT coal country, but I totally understand that the people who have made their money out of coal do not actually live where the miners do. There are poor people there, but they aren't coal miners.
6
1) Hydraulic fracking has done far more to "kill coal" than any politician possibly could.
2) Catastrophic climate change is a serious risk to all of humanity, and it's immoral to ignore this risk so that the .00001% of the human population who works in the coal industry can enjoy job security.
2) Catastrophic climate change is a serious risk to all of humanity, and it's immoral to ignore this risk so that the .00001% of the human population who works in the coal industry can enjoy job security.
19
Cindy, one small detail about straight talking Trump: he's a racketeer, soon to stand trial for deceiving business practices. The emperor has no clothes.
17
First off, Paris Ky is not Appalachia. It is Bluegrass. The money, the jobs, the landscape is totally different. Until you realize that, and that absolutely no coal comes from Paris, you are missing the point. Now ask that President of the Coal Association why he doesn't live in real, for-sure coal country. And why almost all big coal operators get the hell out of the mountains (with their money in suitcases) as soon as they can afford it.
The land and culture there are the rape-product of generations of a "take it and leave" mentality that goes back to sterling families like the Mellons, the JPMorgans, and the Rockefellers.
The Clinton Foundation could have exhausted itself just trying to work out some of the problems in Appalachia, but that might not be good currency in Davos. This Kentuckian will vote for Hillary, simply because he hopes for a better day, and a better choice. Donald Trump is no choice at all.
The land and culture there are the rape-product of generations of a "take it and leave" mentality that goes back to sterling families like the Mellons, the JPMorgans, and the Rockefellers.
The Clinton Foundation could have exhausted itself just trying to work out some of the problems in Appalachia, but that might not be good currency in Davos. This Kentuckian will vote for Hillary, simply because he hopes for a better day, and a better choice. Donald Trump is no choice at all.
11
So the Republican lie that "Obama is killing coal" has resonated, unquestioned.
Any statistic would show that 19th century coal production has been in steady decline for a while. And people did not re-train, still went into a dead industry. I feel for them and agree their fate has been neglected - but pointing the finger at Obama when his Clean Power plan (unfortunately) has not even been enacted - is just looking for cheap blame.
Any statistic would show that 19th century coal production has been in steady decline for a while. And people did not re-train, still went into a dead industry. I feel for them and agree their fate has been neglected - but pointing the finger at Obama when his Clean Power plan (unfortunately) has not even been enacted - is just looking for cheap blame.
11
This is a well written piece, one that attempts to capture a type of despair I so rarely see in Western Oregon. I empathize with their struggle. Anyone can relate to the challenges of trying to put food on the table for his children and the desire to have a decent life. I also understand they, like anyone else in such straits, needs someone to blame. That is only natural.
But this problem has no singular cause. The loss of American jobs in coal and others in the "Rust Belt" does not fall to President Obama. Rather, the vast changes in technology and natural growth of world trade have either eliminated these positions or made keeping them in the US not cost effective. Large businesses do not care about workers or the impact they have in any given region. They care only about profit, and they make more money with workers elsewhere, for a number of reasons. Electing Trump will not change this overall dynamic. Yes, sticking it to NAFTA etc. may provide some temporary catharsis, but that will fade quickly. The world has changed. Like or not, but it has.
I don't pretend to have a solution to this mess, but I know electing Trump is not it.
But this problem has no singular cause. The loss of American jobs in coal and others in the "Rust Belt" does not fall to President Obama. Rather, the vast changes in technology and natural growth of world trade have either eliminated these positions or made keeping them in the US not cost effective. Large businesses do not care about workers or the impact they have in any given region. They care only about profit, and they make more money with workers elsewhere, for a number of reasons. Electing Trump will not change this overall dynamic. Yes, sticking it to NAFTA etc. may provide some temporary catharsis, but that will fade quickly. The world has changed. Like or not, but it has.
I don't pretend to have a solution to this mess, but I know electing Trump is not it.
6
".....a last-ditch rallying cry for the soul of a changing land where minorities will be the majority by the middle of the century." What soul? The soul of America is rooted in cultural, societal, industrial, and technological changes resulting from the ever changing demographics of the USA that started with the Mayflower. Resistance to change is conservatism in its most basic form. The GOP simply can not compete with progress. Instead the GOP relies on keeping people intellectually and economically isolated with their gerrymandering, voter suppression, and aversion to education complemented by comic revisionist history tales and fundamentalist religion. Kentucky with its coal mines knew green is the future and what has one-termer Mitchie done about it? He is simpIy milking the misery of his constituents. It is amazing that the state also has a successful Obamacare. Kentuckians should remember what party is responsible for that little bit of progress.
9
Democratic Party commenter hypocrisy here is stunning. The *white trash* you deride here cling to their dying communities--and are as ill-served there--just like the black folk in places like Detroit and Flint.
Democratic senators like West Virginia*s Joe Manchin are just as rapacious and unconcerned about the real needs of the people they serve as McConnell et al. Note also that Manchin is the proud father of rapacious CEO Heather Bresch of the Epi-Pen profiteering.
These two political parties are now identical. Proof? Hillary on the stump, invoking St. Ronnie as often as she can get those words out of her mouth.
Why shouldn't the people profiled here want to continue to live in a remarkably beautiful part of the country? Why should they be forced to sell their homes at a loss and move to crowded urban areas with unaffordable rents and endless vistas of concrete?
Why, as I asked previously, can*t call centers be established in Paris, KY and removed from Mumbai, India? Some American corporations have already returned customer service operations to US localities. Lobbyists have been equally successful with Republicans and Democrats in ensuring it remains profitable to keep most of these jobs from Americans.
Trump is a wretched human being, but right now only Hillary has a track record of contributing to the ravagement of the Middle East, North Africa and Central America. Neither of these venal mediocrities are qualified to be the President we need.
Democratic senators like West Virginia*s Joe Manchin are just as rapacious and unconcerned about the real needs of the people they serve as McConnell et al. Note also that Manchin is the proud father of rapacious CEO Heather Bresch of the Epi-Pen profiteering.
These two political parties are now identical. Proof? Hillary on the stump, invoking St. Ronnie as often as she can get those words out of her mouth.
Why shouldn't the people profiled here want to continue to live in a remarkably beautiful part of the country? Why should they be forced to sell their homes at a loss and move to crowded urban areas with unaffordable rents and endless vistas of concrete?
Why, as I asked previously, can*t call centers be established in Paris, KY and removed from Mumbai, India? Some American corporations have already returned customer service operations to US localities. Lobbyists have been equally successful with Republicans and Democrats in ensuring it remains profitable to keep most of these jobs from Americans.
Trump is a wretched human being, but right now only Hillary has a track record of contributing to the ravagement of the Middle East, North Africa and Central America. Neither of these venal mediocrities are qualified to be the President we need.
11
False Hope. People in this region have been conditioned to believe outsiders are the source of their problems. It was Mitch McConnell and the coal industry that conceived a PR program that coined the phrase "War On Coal". Tighter emissions regulations have been in the works for decades. Rather than making a concerted effort by investing the funds in the R&D to find cleaner ways of using coal; the industry invested in politicians. It worked well for a time. Now that the regulations have been implemented and the Natural Gas industry has marketed a cheaper cleaner burning product the coal industry cannot compete. Since the lucrative lobbying dollars from the coal industry have dried up you don't here much about the War On Coal. When convenient the myths associated with it still get trotted out. Worse yet Trump and his ilk try to imply the coal industry is coming back if they are elected. This false and cynical hope just delays the implementation of plans and programs for the region to get beyond coal. Most of the best coal reserves have been mined out; the cost of mining the remaining reserves make it uneconomical. In addition, when the collateral damage to roads, environment, streams and health are calculated into the equation coal mining loses any apparent advantage. Coal has been eclipsed by other factors in the economy. Truman didn't get blamed when there was a shift from coal to oil post WWII and the region saw a massive outward migration to jobs elsewhere. Dejavu.
.
.
9
I guess for people who do not see the unsustainability of an extractive based economy, the inability to see through Trump's smoke and mirrors is to be expected. Why won't he release his tax returns? Because he's leveraged to the hilt; I'll wager he's just as deep in debt as the country is.
4
Do these folks realize that the very party they are voting for wants to take away everything they are getting right now. From subsidized health insurance to Social Security, Medicare and food stamps Republican politicians like Mitch McConnel, Paul Ryan and of course Rand Paul will be rubbing their hands in anticipation of taking that all away so these people can be " free from the slavery of dependence ". They'll be so much stronger when the Republicans take this horrible burden away and give that money to all the billionaires LIKE DONALD TRUMP.
How pathetic they actually believe this garbage.
They are voting for a party that truly distains them.
How pathetic they actually believe this garbage.
They are voting for a party that truly distains them.
9
My friend Bob says people get the politicians they deserve. This article makes me think he's right.
6
These points are well-established: Clinton does not care about
jobs lost to Mexico, etc., except to pander temporarily to a
particular crowd; no-one from either party has ever tried to soften
the brutal effects of globalization by creating a different, more flexible safety net; and the decision to abandon certain citizens, such as Kentucky coal miners needing to reinvent their work careers, has been fully embraced by both Democrats and Republicans in the White House for at least 24 years, if not longer.
That Trump gets such a strong positive response from these battered and forgotten citizens is primarily driven by the extreme contrast between his
recognizing them and the total neglect shown by the "establishment" for
decades.
My chief concern is: what will happen to these people when Trump loses, as he almost certainly will? Will Waco, Ruby Ridge, and the Oklahoma City bombing become the templates for the 1/4 or 1/3 of US citizens who have been snubbed and described as "deplorables" for several decades now?
In Appalachia, men and women from the same basic stock enthusiastically fought for liberty in the American Revolution, supported the Union in the Civil War, fought for the rights of labor in the early 20th century, and have a long, presently intact tradition of holding to their beliefs in God, their bibles, and their guns.
Maybe they will be muted, defeated, and silent after Trump loses. I just wouldn't bet my lunch money on it happening like that.
jobs lost to Mexico, etc., except to pander temporarily to a
particular crowd; no-one from either party has ever tried to soften
the brutal effects of globalization by creating a different, more flexible safety net; and the decision to abandon certain citizens, such as Kentucky coal miners needing to reinvent their work careers, has been fully embraced by both Democrats and Republicans in the White House for at least 24 years, if not longer.
That Trump gets such a strong positive response from these battered and forgotten citizens is primarily driven by the extreme contrast between his
recognizing them and the total neglect shown by the "establishment" for
decades.
My chief concern is: what will happen to these people when Trump loses, as he almost certainly will? Will Waco, Ruby Ridge, and the Oklahoma City bombing become the templates for the 1/4 or 1/3 of US citizens who have been snubbed and described as "deplorables" for several decades now?
In Appalachia, men and women from the same basic stock enthusiastically fought for liberty in the American Revolution, supported the Union in the Civil War, fought for the rights of labor in the early 20th century, and have a long, presently intact tradition of holding to their beliefs in God, their bibles, and their guns.
Maybe they will be muted, defeated, and silent after Trump loses. I just wouldn't bet my lunch money on it happening like that.
8
Any of these folks ever think about job training instead of complaining? The coal industry is not coming back,Trump or no Trump. But their sons and daughters could end up fighting another war because of thin skinned Donald's big mouth and general stupidity. Guess this is why Trump loves the uneducated! I do not have a degree, but I can read and do!
9
The Democratic Party has suffered for 16 years from the Clinton regency in waiting. Obama was a guerrilla candidate who sneaked through her Maginot Line. Sanders came pretty close. Most others have been afraid to try. She has smothered the party, and if elected will continue to do so. Her first order of business, if elected, will be the 2020 election, which means using the power of the White House to choke off any possible Democratic alternatives. Yes, something spectacular is needed to rejuvenate the Democratic party.
2
Peppering your speech with nonsensical historical references doesn't really make you sound brighter than a coal miner. And where is Kings George in all of this?
3
Moscow Don, doesn't give one iota to anybody, unless he steal them blind.
5
People in the Eastern time zone aren't used to ghost towns. They are all over the West. It doesn't surprise us that corporations and people move into a place, strip its assets clean and vanish. It's the American way, to us. Maybe because gold and silver are more valuable, the process is accelerated, so the outcome is more obvious. But anyplace that depends solely on extraction of a finite resource (or even a potentially renewable resource such as whale oil or timber) is going to collapse sooner or later unless the resource is never supplanted by a superior alternative (talking about you, coal) and is wisely managed.
11
"Trump, for all his bullying petulance, has come closest to being that politician, which is why millions of Americans support him."
Journalists really do America a disservice when they make such a sweeping generalization when describing Trump supporters. In such sentences it should always be made very clear that Trump has the support of millions of *white* Americans because, especially in an article in which working class whites bemoan Democratic policies on equality as being something that is against them because it levels the playing field for ethnic/racial minorities, it is more accurate and truthful.
Journalists really do America a disservice when they make such a sweeping generalization when describing Trump supporters. In such sentences it should always be made very clear that Trump has the support of millions of *white* Americans because, especially in an article in which working class whites bemoan Democratic policies on equality as being something that is against them because it levels the playing field for ethnic/racial minorities, it is more accurate and truthful.
3
What you need to do is stop clinging on to a dying industry ( coal )
Take the hand that is extended ( from Democrats ) and salvage what you can, by retraining, retooling and if it comes to it, moving.
I know that is a harsh reality, but it is the reality you have. You can either live with it or in a pique of rage, vote for a candidate that will do nothing for you. In fact he will hurt you even more with his false promises.
Your choice.
Take the hand that is extended ( from Democrats ) and salvage what you can, by retraining, retooling and if it comes to it, moving.
I know that is a harsh reality, but it is the reality you have. You can either live with it or in a pique of rage, vote for a candidate that will do nothing for you. In fact he will hurt you even more with his false promises.
Your choice.
9
Seems like these folk are blaming Obama and placing expectations on Trump. Mitch Hedges seemed the only realist...as he does speak about blame or expectation, but character and the threat of war. Sure, government can help via re-education programs, incentives and tax breaks, and other support programs. However, at the end of the day, it is individuals that affect change. It is the coal mining industry that envisioned themselves as coal companies and not energy companies...the miners that have limited themselves to one way of work. These folks in Paris and Hazard seem truly desperate...but apathetic, at least through the lense of this article, about their situation. They seem like they are waiting for someone else to change their situation...rather than doing something themselves. They are not even choosing to learn about Trump or Clinton...admittedly, they are voting their "gut".
5
When African-Americans are out of work, it's their fault. When whites are out of work, it's the government's (i.e., black Democratic president's) fault.
Ignorance and racism - a hard combination to beat.
Ignorance and racism - a hard combination to beat.
22
It is natural gas that killed coal, not Obama.
8
These unhappy Kentuckians should be angry with their elected representatives and senators, who have spent years doing absolutely nothing for their constituents, all the while blaming everything that has gone wrong on Obama. Imagine if Kentucky had some creative thinkers in Congress, people who weren't on the payroll of the coal companies, and therefore against the development of a diversified economy where people could maintain gainful employment. Where is their support for education, to help their people develop resilience and ingenuity, rather than being destined to compete for a shrinking pool of jobs in a changing energy economy? Why hasn't Mitch McConnell brought solar and wind manufacturing plants to Kentucky? Or proposed legislation to create better infrastructure so that people in Kentucky can find other work? Or tried to attract high tech companies to his state? Because he's paid by Big Coal to do nothing, to keep Kentucky solidly out of the clean energy column. And health care? How about that? Red states deny their poorer citizens access to healthcare. No industry lasts forever. But educated and healthy people can be flexible and change with the times. Where are Kentucky's visionaries in the Congress? They're all drunk on political payoffs, laughing their way to the bank, while the populace is drunk on despair, crying into their bourbon.
11
Ok I'll try again:
By far, most of the people described in this article are typical of a 50 year old trend in the lower class South, where people have consistently voted, if they voted at ll, directly against their own interests. Then they get drunk or go to "church" and listen to sad "country" songs. Every two or four years they do it again.
It's disgusting. I know what I'm talking about because I've been around these people.
By far, most of the people described in this article are typical of a 50 year old trend in the lower class South, where people have consistently voted, if they voted at ll, directly against their own interests. Then they get drunk or go to "church" and listen to sad "country" songs. Every two or four years they do it again.
It's disgusting. I know what I'm talking about because I've been around these people.
10
Stupidity is hereditary, unfortunately.
3
Apparently no one is explaining to these poor folks in Kentucky or other coal towns all over the country that we need to abandon coal and oil as much as possible or our children will not only have no jobs, they will have no future. As I understand it, Hillary is at least pushing to help those who lost jobs due to mining cutbacks by proposing that the government create new training programs and other jobs programs to mitigate this employment loss due to the administrations efforts to cut carbon emissions.
Trump still dismissing climate change entirely. He'll be dead before it matters to him and he has the funds to rebuild any time a hurricane wipes out a property or two.
Trump still dismissing climate change entirely. He'll be dead before it matters to him and he has the funds to rebuild any time a hurricane wipes out a property or two.
8
It's funny how memory works. I have intimate knowledge of this area of Kentucky because my father was born there. I spent many summers during my childhood there. The nostalgia for the good old days of coal prosperity by anyone other than executives and shareholders rings very hollow. Working the mines was/is dangerous work for moderate pay. Every successive generation of coal workers saw first hand the devastation of black lung and many other work and health hazards. Many tried not to follow in their family's footsteps. Coal was a necessary evil in their lives not the savior depicted by those in this article. Workers had to fight for decent pay and workplace safety protections. Drug abuse has always been a problem in this area particularly within the group that vowed to stay out the mines but did not have the energy to relocate. I hope the people of this region read my post and wake up to their backward looking view through rose colored glasses. Donald Trump cares about you even less than those executives who did not care about your black lung, pay, or safety protections. Donald Trump has a rating scale not only for women, but also for the social classes. Coal workers, auto workers, ANY workers are a ZERO to him. I really need to know why you can't see this, because I experienced first-hand your intelligence, work ethic and decency.
22
I very much doubt that if you took a poll of 1,000 Trump voters in coal country, more than 50 would describe him as "dangerous." The bias in reporting in this newspaper, from the news pages, to the opinion writers, to the selective information of the editorial page, continues unabated.
Hint to The New York Times and the mainstream media - the piling on actually helps Donald Trump, especially when he is running against about as flawed a candidate as you can get.
Hint to The New York Times and the mainstream media - the piling on actually helps Donald Trump, especially when he is running against about as flawed a candidate as you can get.
4
One can only hope these good people will take a closer look at the bombastic huckster who promises salvation in exchange for worship before it's too late. Folks, this narcissistic sociopath (or is it sociopathic narcissist?) doesn't care a whit about you, me, or anyone else who doesn't gaze adoringly back at him when he looks in a mirror.
6
Are they really good people? Or are they just resentful "salt of the earth"? Tired of hearing people who cling to ignorance and short-sightedness as "good people." They're stupid people, because they won't do anything to help themselves, which could start by voting for different representatives in the Congress, for people who would stop hypnotizing them with idiocy and actually deliver a better society. But that would mean putting aside prejudice and "tradition," that stubborn "we have always done it this way" attitude. What's good about that? Sounds like insanity.
4
I watched a tv show the other night from Britain that came out in 2012-13. The main character, a policewoman, was told by her sister..."you should be more rational". To which she replied..."rational? who wants to be rational? I am angry and rational has nothing to do with it." (the anger was directed at a man who got her daughter pregnant and after giving birth her daughter committed suicide)
I actually thought of Trump in that moment. I think we have all known that type of anger.
I actually thought of Trump in that moment. I think we have all known that type of anger.
2
Born into extreme wealth, Trump has dedicated his entire life to his own self-enrichment. His social world consists of millionaires and billionaires who patronize his buildings, golf courses, and casinos. His family hob nobs with Russian oligarchs. His taste in gaudy gold and jewel encrusted homes is consistent with the palaces of the dictators from the former Soviet republics whom he admires and emulates. Trump's entire existence is a testament to not caring about the plight of the coal miners from eastern Kentucky, or the rural poor, or the everyday American. Trump plays to the power of magical thinking. That is how con artists operate. iI also may explain why his supporters act like members of a cult, overlooking innummerable lies, verifiable links to the racists and anti-semites of the alt.right, love of authoritarianism, concrete evidence of political corruption, and lack of transparency on his tax returns. The man makes his empty promises because he simply has no empathy or practical policy, except perhaps, to distract us from his lies by starting a few more wars. As is typical when the GOP runs the show,it's the most economically vulnerable Americans who will pay the price.
10
I think this expresses the view of a lot, likely a majority of Trump support. The really disturbing thing to me is that the response of the other side has been to ignore and belittle the underlying concerns of these Trump supporters. To dismiss them, to lump them in with racists and misogynists and homophobes as the "deplorables". It is this arrogance that their view of the world is the only acceptable one. That their concerns are dismissable because they have not suffered as blacks, homosexuals and feminists and thus their viewpoint is invalid.
4
Most of them are racist and misogynist and homophobic. It's just not polite to say so. But they are, because those attitudes are the products of ignorance, and they cling to that with great tenacity. That's why Appalachia has remained the most depressed area of the country for decades. People there are so beset with hate and resentment they can't get out of their own way.
3
I'm so tired of hearing from unemployed coal miners sticking around in destitute towns waiting for the coal mines to open so they can spend the rest of their lives breathing coal dust. You sound to me like stagecoach drivers complaining about automobiles instead of learning to drive one. America isn't going to be burning coal in 50 years. I can feel sympathy for 3rd generation fishermen who feel driven out of a romantic and adventurous career they love. But coal mining? Wake up and vote for the candidate who wants to retrain you for a career in the modern energy economy.
13
The manufacturing communities, mining towns and small farms of America are disappearing. Donald Trump exploits that. Hillary ignores it. There is no middle ground and no compromise. Because of that many millions of Americans feel disenfranchised and left out and left behind. Again, Trump tunes into those feelings and Hillary fails to grasp meaning and compassion. Millions of Americans blame free trade and Bill Clinton for their misery. By connection they also blame Hillary for complicity or at least acceptance. Millions of Americans view Obama's administration for the perception that American power and influence in the world is in retreat and decline. Trump exploits that perception and Hillary fails to understand it. Obama care is reviled and hated by many Americans who now pay higher premiums and have fewer choices. Hilary and Donald make known their view of Obama care and again, the divide between American viewpoints are divided. Hillary believes that many now have health care. Others who see their premiums go up can't afford Hillary's view.
The election is a choice of deeply divided views and contrasts.
I would like to vote for Hillary and the Democrats. This what I'd like to hear;
Trade and jobs will not only be a priority but "the" priority. Nafta will be rescinded and renegotiated. Interest rates will rise. Seniors will be able to buy CDs and not have to take risks in the stock market. Health care will be affordable. Illegal immigration will be tackled.
The election is a choice of deeply divided views and contrasts.
I would like to vote for Hillary and the Democrats. This what I'd like to hear;
Trade and jobs will not only be a priority but "the" priority. Nafta will be rescinded and renegotiated. Interest rates will rise. Seniors will be able to buy CDs and not have to take risks in the stock market. Health care will be affordable. Illegal immigration will be tackled.
7
This reaction recalls the Louisiana voters who supported Edwin Edwards, whom they lied because he was a crook. This thought process defied rationalism.
5
Donald Trump is a disgusting person. It's unfortunate that the appalachain folks think that he has their back while in reality he wouldn't have anything to do with poor mountain folks from his perch in Manhattan. Trump washes his hands after rallies with working class folks as he looks down on them as total losers.
10
Saying that the EPA policy is skewed against fossil fuels is akin to saying Christian religious policy/dogma is skewed against sin! What a ridiculous self-contradicting statement.
6
The picture I get, sitting here in a the haven of an "urban ethos of liberalism", that is New York City, I perceive the folks who see salvation in the person of Donald Trump, as folks with very weak character. "Perceived" is the secret word; Donald's "perceived" platform is that of a 71 year old real estate developer, a most corrupt and exploitative of men in this most corrupt and exploitative of businesses, a giver of "voice" to the "disenfranchised!!!!"
And I'm not a native New Yorker, neither am I steeped in an "urban liberal ethos." I'm a practical-minded, first-generation immigrant who has worked hard to educate herself and her children, to be both enlightened and employed in the long run. I hail from one of the world's most populous democracies--India and have grown up in a culture of democratic elections. Even the poorest of the poor among the Indian electorate will not be fooled by the obvious roots of a Donald Trump--he is urban, never worked the "mines" in his life, doesn't have an iota of the working class ethos he touts to represent, has squelched voices galore by displacing the vulnerable for his unethical development projects, has always lied to clinch deals, and has a mental acuity of a developer--an evil profession that breeds displacement, ruin, just so a tower of an ego can be erected.
Donald Trump lacks character; is a person of weak/no ethos. Weak electorate's weaknesses is reflected in their choice of the weakest of the weak men as potential leader.
And I'm not a native New Yorker, neither am I steeped in an "urban liberal ethos." I'm a practical-minded, first-generation immigrant who has worked hard to educate herself and her children, to be both enlightened and employed in the long run. I hail from one of the world's most populous democracies--India and have grown up in a culture of democratic elections. Even the poorest of the poor among the Indian electorate will not be fooled by the obvious roots of a Donald Trump--he is urban, never worked the "mines" in his life, doesn't have an iota of the working class ethos he touts to represent, has squelched voices galore by displacing the vulnerable for his unethical development projects, has always lied to clinch deals, and has a mental acuity of a developer--an evil profession that breeds displacement, ruin, just so a tower of an ego can be erected.
Donald Trump lacks character; is a person of weak/no ethos. Weak electorate's weaknesses is reflected in their choice of the weakest of the weak men as potential leader.
11
“We need Trump for a reasonable Supreme Court and an E.P.A no longer skewed against fossil fuels,”
Someone needs to sit down and have a real factual conversation with all people who relied on coal production for their livelihood. Just as we relied on horses and wagons for transportation, the industrial age gave us the automobile. Same outcome for fossil fuels and green energy. Thrump will NEVER be able to return them to coal. Thrump is not being honest and is not fit to be POTUS.
Someone needs to sit down and have a real factual conversation with all people who relied on coal production for their livelihood. Just as we relied on horses and wagons for transportation, the industrial age gave us the automobile. Same outcome for fossil fuels and green energy. Thrump will NEVER be able to return them to coal. Thrump is not being honest and is not fit to be POTUS.
8
I have read many of the comments. In EXACTLY NONE of them did I see any suggestion of a solution to the economic issues driving the emotions described in the article.
I find that to be an annoying type of willful blindness. It is interesting how the coasts have drifted so far from what it used to be in my childhood and what it use to represent in terms of a vision for the country overall.
I consider myself well educated and well informed but I what I find appalling is that so much of the country's brainpower is spent trying to undermine it, segregate it and spend enormous amounts of time on projects that have absolutely no relevance to the majority of American personal and daily needs.
This pattern that has developed over the past generation is a huge waste of human potential.
I find that to be an annoying type of willful blindness. It is interesting how the coasts have drifted so far from what it used to be in my childhood and what it use to represent in terms of a vision for the country overall.
I consider myself well educated and well informed but I what I find appalling is that so much of the country's brainpower is spent trying to undermine it, segregate it and spend enormous amounts of time on projects that have absolutely no relevance to the majority of American personal and daily needs.
This pattern that has developed over the past generation is a huge waste of human potential.
5
Someone else said it and it makes sense: Many people who support Donald Trump don’t care about his policies or temperament. They just want someone to go to Washington and kick over the table. I get it. I also get the author’s warning that Trump’s rise is fueled in part by a dismissive arrogance on the part of liberals who don’t understand the profound nature of the loss of hope in a better future that so many feel. It’s as if liberals have joined conservative evangelicals in believing that poverty is a sign of moral failure, of not being “blessed,” and that people who are better off are better people. These attitudes make a lie of “The American Dream” that had us cheering for everyone to get ahead. We are becoming a selfie nation of selfish narcissists, obsessed with ourselves, and it is turning the dream into a nightmare that haunts us with the awful choice between a volatile Donald Trump and a sycophantic Hillary Clinton. Someone else also said, “We have met the enemy….” We had better reintroduce ourselves to each other respectfully and start pulling together or history may one day say that this was the beginning of the end of the American dream that inspired the world.
5
The people in coal towns throughout Kentucky and West Virginia have every reason to be at odds with the "American Way." How dare the government sacrifice jobs, families, security, to clean up the air: what about us? What about us and our families?
This all leads to the basic question in this election: What can be done to help the many needy people thrown out of work by clean air legislation and more to the point, the moving of manufacturing jobs out of our country? What sits beside those two questions is: can a Clinton victory start our country on the road back? If elected, will the Democrats have enough Congressional backing to start a recovery in motion? How will that be accomplished?
My heart goes out to these disenfranchised West Virginia and Kentucky towns and by voting for Clinton, I am telling her that I want to see these people helped. It will never be enough to pay this sort of pain lip service. But Trump, despite his bravado will not "Make America Great Again." Not in a thousand years.
This all leads to the basic question in this election: What can be done to help the many needy people thrown out of work by clean air legislation and more to the point, the moving of manufacturing jobs out of our country? What sits beside those two questions is: can a Clinton victory start our country on the road back? If elected, will the Democrats have enough Congressional backing to start a recovery in motion? How will that be accomplished?
My heart goes out to these disenfranchised West Virginia and Kentucky towns and by voting for Clinton, I am telling her that I want to see these people helped. It will never be enough to pay this sort of pain lip service. But Trump, despite his bravado will not "Make America Great Again." Not in a thousand years.
8
"We may have to move"
Paris Ky.
I have had to move 4 times in my life for work, a better quality of living, to stay out of the poor house, or have health insurance. It did not get easier as I aged. So if the mines you are so dependent upon are shutting down because coal is dirty and a large contributor to global warming then guess what?
It could be worse, you could have been born in Syria and now be running for your life to places where no one wants you or your children. I bet the Syrians would be very happy to settle where you are now and would probably make a better go if it.
So yes you go ahead and vote for a charlatan who pays no taxes and a party that gave us the Iraq war and all its dead. You think it's hard now, just wait.
Paris Ky.
I have had to move 4 times in my life for work, a better quality of living, to stay out of the poor house, or have health insurance. It did not get easier as I aged. So if the mines you are so dependent upon are shutting down because coal is dirty and a large contributor to global warming then guess what?
It could be worse, you could have been born in Syria and now be running for your life to places where no one wants you or your children. I bet the Syrians would be very happy to settle where you are now and would probably make a better go if it.
So yes you go ahead and vote for a charlatan who pays no taxes and a party that gave us the Iraq war and all its dead. You think it's hard now, just wait.
15
Sad commentary on self-destructive tendencies of proud people. I know them, coming from Oklahoma, and since livine 35 years in CO and now the Eastern Shore of Maryland. They are people who are living where they were born and/or raised. They value family in a very dependant kind of way. They are, in many ways, so much tougher than I am, but somehow not very flexible in their thinking or living. They cannot concieve of going to somewhere else that has jobs and opportunity. It just would never cross their minds. Is it Darwinian to think that if the survival instinct of migration is not working that extinction will follow? Sort of harsh, I know.
6
Trump and the Republican Congress have the game rigged. Heads, Trump wins and nothing changes for these folks, and tails gridlock in Washington continues. And the ironic thing about change is, they will support a Republican Congress led by a Senator from Kentucky who knows this population and its needs better than anyone and does nothing for them. Either way, those in Appalachia lose.
8
It's a pleasant surprise to see the term "liberal intellectual arrogance" on the homepage of Liberal Intellectual Arrogance. Beyond that, Roger's very open minded article led me to a thought: is the root factor behind Obama's attack on coal more based on class warfare or actual environmental policy? Urban Gentry Left contempt for the white middle class has been around for decades. We should not be surprised that the main victims of Obama's environmental policies are the people hated most by his policy makers.
3
Trump has a real world view of business.
With Obama ignoring the economic depression that started in the Bush administration, I can't blame these people, and many others, let down by Obama and the Democrats.
With Obama ignoring the economic depression that started in the Bush administration, I can't blame these people, and many others, let down by Obama and the Democrats.
3
So coal people want to keep the status quo?
Read a book about the horse and buggy people's reaction to the advent of the automotive era!
I have this perverse and irrational desire to see Trump win, just so I can observe the reactions of these ignorant people who elected him, as they realize and live through the huge calamity and destruction of American Democracy that he will bring!
Read a book about the horse and buggy people's reaction to the advent of the automotive era!
I have this perverse and irrational desire to see Trump win, just so I can observe the reactions of these ignorant people who elected him, as they realize and live through the huge calamity and destruction of American Democracy that he will bring!
2
You might be interested in reading how the automobile industry ruined the public transportation industry. This was after the "horse and buggy" and previous to the rise of the auto. They needed people to ruin the industry in order to make people dependent on personal transportation --and look what that has done to our environment and society. All for greed.
Although I agree with your overall comment, the slow death of the coal industry and the automobile industry is like comparing oranges and apples; they are different because of intent and result.
Although I agree with your overall comment, the slow death of the coal industry and the automobile industry is like comparing oranges and apples; they are different because of intent and result.
2
Not quite sure of your point...
Coal is losing out to new abundant supplies of natural gas and eventually to wind and solar power. It's just technological progress.
I believe that the horse/buggy technology faced the same challenges as the coal industry.
I do agree that the automotive industry did not play fair in fighting trolley cars (light rail,) and public transportation, but nothing could have stopped the rise and dominence of the internal combustion engine and personal transportation.
But public transportation is coming back because of necessity.
Coal is losing out to new abundant supplies of natural gas and eventually to wind and solar power. It's just technological progress.
I believe that the horse/buggy technology faced the same challenges as the coal industry.
I do agree that the automotive industry did not play fair in fighting trolley cars (light rail,) and public transportation, but nothing could have stopped the rise and dominence of the internal combustion engine and personal transportation.
But public transportation is coming back because of necessity.
3
why do people hear donald talk and think he- 'tells it like it is'?
he lies.
he always has lied.
just like he always cheats and steals from people who are vulnerable - like most of his supporters are vulnerable now to the economic realities created by globalization, mechanization and computerization.
he lies.
he always has lied.
just like he always cheats and steals from people who are vulnerable - like most of his supporters are vulnerable now to the economic realities created by globalization, mechanization and computerization.
5
Perhaps the problem was that the jobs disappeared, but no new jobs materialized their place.
It goes to show that it is relatively easy to destroy livelihoods and demolish any sense of continuity and security in one's life. What is extremely difficult is actually building these livelihoods up in the first place.
Actually, security in jobs and livelihood are rare in the world, but we all grew up thinking that this was what was supposed to be. Now it is gone and we know it can never be again.
Other people here have also pointed out automation. Obama has also mentioned that. The problem is systemic, and we have to come to terms with it as a society and develop long term policies to address this. Imagine that happening.
It goes to show that it is relatively easy to destroy livelihoods and demolish any sense of continuity and security in one's life. What is extremely difficult is actually building these livelihoods up in the first place.
Actually, security in jobs and livelihood are rare in the world, but we all grew up thinking that this was what was supposed to be. Now it is gone and we know it can never be again.
Other people here have also pointed out automation. Obama has also mentioned that. The problem is systemic, and we have to come to terms with it as a society and develop long term policies to address this. Imagine that happening.
3
A big chunk of Trump supporters are just racist . Most of them are not that much educated. They believed in Birther movement. Most of them believe Obama is a Muslim. Trump is a Cult figure to them. In Trump's word that if he shoot someone on 5th avenue, he will loose their support. Trump also thinks that his supporters are stupid and blind.
1
These people might as well put their faith in pink unicorns.
3
Great work Rodger.
These people are part of the essential fabric of America and deserve better. So, by the way, are Latinos, Blacks and everyone else who works hard in America.
People who are feeling desperate pick a savior.
Many people around the country in the same boat as these folks see that savior as Clinton.
The thing I keep returning to is this thought:
Trump is the only Republican the less-than-popular Clinton could beat this year.
Clinton is the only Democrat the less-than-popular Trump could beat this year.
Whichever one can connect with average people in the coming weeks and show competency will be President.
Read that last sentence again and the contest is slight advantage to Clinton. She will win by 3 points.
These people are part of the essential fabric of America and deserve better. So, by the way, are Latinos, Blacks and everyone else who works hard in America.
People who are feeling desperate pick a savior.
Many people around the country in the same boat as these folks see that savior as Clinton.
The thing I keep returning to is this thought:
Trump is the only Republican the less-than-popular Clinton could beat this year.
Clinton is the only Democrat the less-than-popular Trump could beat this year.
Whichever one can connect with average people in the coming weeks and show competency will be President.
Read that last sentence again and the contest is slight advantage to Clinton. She will win by 3 points.
3
And I thought coal was so last century. These references to getting miners back to work go against the global grain.
The voter in Appalachia is not that far removed from the middle class GOP voter in the suburbs - they both know Trump is a loose cannon, both know Hillary will not change the direction we are headed and both find Hillary dishonest. Throw in a Supreme Court that will tilt permanently left if she is elected and you understand why Trump is competitive and rising.
2
It’s that all the old certainties have vanished.
. My take away from this article is that as the Earth warms and oceans rise, Paris' problems will pale to what others will experience. Unless we segue into cleaner forms of energy we should also make sure those who lose jobs are either retrained or offered alternatives. The Earth enters an uncertain time in many ways and pushes us to adapt and survive. This is not heartless but a natural process that is unforgiving. As far as who for POTUS, if they are willing to gamble with a very unsettling unknown then that's their business as long as they are ready to accept the consequences. And Jefferson was criticized for spending more time in Paris by Washington.
. My take away from this article is that as the Earth warms and oceans rise, Paris' problems will pale to what others will experience. Unless we segue into cleaner forms of energy we should also make sure those who lose jobs are either retrained or offered alternatives. The Earth enters an uncertain time in many ways and pushes us to adapt and survive. This is not heartless but a natural process that is unforgiving. As far as who for POTUS, if they are willing to gamble with a very unsettling unknown then that's their business as long as they are ready to accept the consequences. And Jefferson was criticized for spending more time in Paris by Washington.
2
Time for Hillary to get out the specifics on her retraining and new job creation programs in Kentucky and elsewhere. Coal is definitely bad but people need jobs and new skills. They must see that this is coming for them and coming soon.
2
"I don’t think he is a danger to the Republic because American institutions are stronger than Trump’s ego, but that the question even arises is troubling."
A very questionable, and, I think, a dangerous premise. How the author can make it in light of the Patriot Act, The Defense Authorization Act, and the rise of the Imperial Presidency is beyond me.
A very questionable, and, I think, a dangerous premise. How the author can make it in light of the Patriot Act, The Defense Authorization Act, and the rise of the Imperial Presidency is beyond me.
3
They also thought Mitch McConnell would take care of them. And all he has done is protect the 0.1% coal barons to perpetuate an industry that inflicts a culture of poverty and poor health on miners and their families, while wreaking havoc on the landscape around them. But they love card-carrying NRA cult member Mitch for how he defends "their way of live" and places blame on the federal gov'ment with that dark man in the White House.
In truth, these people are "deplorable" because they continue to hurt themselves by voting into office white conservative men whose policies are grossly detrimental to their life, liberty and pursuit of happiness. Obama was right: "they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them"
So as long as Donald keeps speaking their language, he'll have their support. They get what they deserve.
In truth, these people are "deplorable" because they continue to hurt themselves by voting into office white conservative men whose policies are grossly detrimental to their life, liberty and pursuit of happiness. Obama was right: "they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them"
So as long as Donald keeps speaking their language, he'll have their support. They get what they deserve.
8
Trump has gathered the low hanging bitter fruit. The very people the GOP has been successful lying to for 50 years using the race card, the hate Liberals crowd, the hate Cities (Jews) birdwhistle, has found its roost - a spoiled rich brat who doesn't believe in climate change because it's perfectly comfortable in all of his central air conditioned jets and suites around the world.
The Appalachian voters have plenty of company out on Long Island or in upstate New York, and they're just as easy to find in rural New Hampshire or northern Florida.
They hate you and I. The unseen, imagined, urban liberal. They enjoy Trump's lying because they see it as an assault on our political insistence on some standard of fact. They mistrust fact. They think it's rigged. They have been lied to so often and so repeatedly in their minds that they enjoy the idea of the whole country going down the tubes by the same route led by a psychopath. That is the 'anger' - it is a fury of petty resentments, deep injuries, and a sense of hopelessness infuriated by the idea that anyone might feel pity toward them. They are masters of their own fate. They worked for what they don't have, and they own a gun, they can end it anytime they choose. This is the America that Trump is riding bareback on his horse with Vladamir Putin. It's only Deliverance will be War, and profligate bankrupting spending accompanied by violence, scandal, and given Trumps antagonism to Paris Accords global, death.
The Appalachian voters have plenty of company out on Long Island or in upstate New York, and they're just as easy to find in rural New Hampshire or northern Florida.
They hate you and I. The unseen, imagined, urban liberal. They enjoy Trump's lying because they see it as an assault on our political insistence on some standard of fact. They mistrust fact. They think it's rigged. They have been lied to so often and so repeatedly in their minds that they enjoy the idea of the whole country going down the tubes by the same route led by a psychopath. That is the 'anger' - it is a fury of petty resentments, deep injuries, and a sense of hopelessness infuriated by the idea that anyone might feel pity toward them. They are masters of their own fate. They worked for what they don't have, and they own a gun, they can end it anytime they choose. This is the America that Trump is riding bareback on his horse with Vladamir Putin. It's only Deliverance will be War, and profligate bankrupting spending accompanied by violence, scandal, and given Trumps antagonism to Paris Accords global, death.
13
These people are the real 'takers' Mitt Romney complained about in 2012. On unemployment, disability, Medicaid, social security, but the government is to blame for your problems? Get over your coal mining and join the 21st century.
3
Goodness gracious God help us if Trump becomes president. Wrath will descend on our nation. Our children and grandchildren will suffer irreparable harm. The other good peoples of the world will reject us. Our enemies will take advantage of our weakness and fragmentation.
2
"I don’t think he is a danger to the Republic because American institutions are stronger than Trump’s ego..."
On the contrary, I believe the failure of the American institution called the Republican party has led to Trump in no small measure because their mission to delegitimize the federal government has hampered the government's ability to offer aid the very folks you are talking to in Kentucky. While "liberal intellectual arrogance" may be annoying to many, modern conservative intransigence has more directly impacted the lives of these people by making, for the sake of political gain, needed institutional responses all but impossible. As a result the GOP has reaped the whirlwind in the form of Trump and there's some chance the rest of us may as well should he win the election.
On the contrary, I believe the failure of the American institution called the Republican party has led to Trump in no small measure because their mission to delegitimize the federal government has hampered the government's ability to offer aid the very folks you are talking to in Kentucky. While "liberal intellectual arrogance" may be annoying to many, modern conservative intransigence has more directly impacted the lives of these people by making, for the sake of political gain, needed institutional responses all but impossible. As a result the GOP has reaped the whirlwind in the form of Trump and there's some chance the rest of us may as well should he win the election.
5
Trump is a phony and a liar and they buy into his lies. They are bigots and Republicans and Trump uses their bigotry for their own purposes. "Deplorables" is not a strong enough term.
3
Cohen needs to be a little more precise when he uses the term "political correctness." When people like some quoted in his column say they applaud Trump's refusal to cave to PC, what they really mean is that they long for the days when they could "call a spade a spade." It's sickening. Perhaps some of these people would like to trade places with the minority residents of Ferguson, Missouri? They need to listen to Jenny Williams, the English teacher who says they need to concentrate on ecotourism, small manufacturing, and agriculture. Otherwise, they just come off as whiners who are desperately pegging future hopes on a would-be autocrat and know-nothing.
2
There is no question that these good people as well as many others in the United States have been cheated and treated unfairly by the political system that we presently have. The gist of this this article is that these people are fed up and are demanding change. It is unfortunate that their only alternative to what we have is a vote for the Orange One.
Pogo's comment 'I have met the enemy and he is us' are the reason we have the present political system. We have voted for the people who have changed it to be this oligopoly of political privilege through well paid lobbyists. A vote for the Orange One continues this downward spiral of greed and excess.
We have more wealth in this country than we ever have had. It is the distribution of that wealth that needs to be changed. The Orange One and his Royalist minders are not the ones to change that.
That is the tragedy of this situation. Hold your nose and vote in November.
Pogo's comment 'I have met the enemy and he is us' are the reason we have the present political system. We have voted for the people who have changed it to be this oligopoly of political privilege through well paid lobbyists. A vote for the Orange One continues this downward spiral of greed and excess.
We have more wealth in this country than we ever have had. It is the distribution of that wealth that needs to be changed. The Orange One and his Royalist minders are not the ones to change that.
That is the tragedy of this situation. Hold your nose and vote in November.
5
“Sure, he’s kind of a loose cannon, but he tells it the way it is and, if elected, people will be there to calm him down a bit, tweak a word or two in his speeches. And I just don’t trust Hillary Clinton."
How, pray tell, will anyone be able to calm Trump down when he is empowered with the presidency? How, pray tell, will anyone be able to tweak a word or two of his speeches if they cannot do so now when he is just a candidate? As untrustworthy as Hillary may be, how, pray tell, can anyone trust the Donald more?
Although there is no expression of racism in the woman's quote, etc., this is indeed a "basket case".
How, pray tell, will anyone be able to calm Trump down when he is empowered with the presidency? How, pray tell, will anyone be able to tweak a word or two of his speeches if they cannot do so now when he is just a candidate? As untrustworthy as Hillary may be, how, pray tell, can anyone trust the Donald more?
Although there is no expression of racism in the woman's quote, etc., this is indeed a "basket case".
9
Trump loves the poorly educated.
6
The German people knew that Hitler was dangerous but they were desperate for change. Hitler made it clear as does Trump that he intended to end constitutional democracy, which the Weirmar Republic was and rule as a dictator and that Jews, rather than Muslims were the national enemies, that violence against opposition was alright and his party was the party of the ignorant, racists, anti Semitic mob.
Trump is running for dictator. He believe that America is ready for fascism and strongman rule. Well maybe some of us are. I remember WWII very well and this time there will be no USA to come to the rescue. The 21st century will be owned by China. Wake up Americans. Rescure your country while you still can.
Trump is running for dictator. He believe that America is ready for fascism and strongman rule. Well maybe some of us are. I remember WWII very well and this time there will be no USA to come to the rescue. The 21st century will be owned by China. Wake up Americans. Rescure your country while you still can.
9
I agree, Mr. Bunin. When you look at how Trump kisses the rear end of Putin, a horrific dictator with a permanent smirk, you can see that Trump is using him as a model for what he would do. Many of the folks in this article see that but just don't care, or don't see the long run downside to their lives. Why is it that history only seems to repeat the bad stuff?
4
What I don't understand is why neither candidate or party is truly responsive to their pain? It's not Obama's "fault" that the mining jobs disappeared; and I say this as someone who is not a fan of Obama by any means. It would be best for the world if we cease mining coal. What these people need is a way forward to retrain, re-skill and get back to working jobs that pay decently and have a future. They also want to see a future for their children and grandchildren and a viable way for them to remain in their community.
It seems that the Dems offer food stamps, the Republicans offer false promises and neither party seems to recognize the desperation felt by those who view the rest of the country as having moved on beyond them. Even worse, they know they are looked down on as ignorant hillbillies in flyover country.
If you don't want "scary" candidates such as Trump to win their votes, produce candidates that will work with these areas to craft realistic solutions to their needs. It's not "Make Amercia great again" but it's sure not bi-coastal Democratic urban superiority either.
It seems that the Dems offer food stamps, the Republicans offer false promises and neither party seems to recognize the desperation felt by those who view the rest of the country as having moved on beyond them. Even worse, they know they are looked down on as ignorant hillbillies in flyover country.
If you don't want "scary" candidates such as Trump to win their votes, produce candidates that will work with these areas to craft realistic solutions to their needs. It's not "Make Amercia great again" but it's sure not bi-coastal Democratic urban superiority either.
6
Democrats need to talk more about job training and education, they're the only party that is in favor of this.
2
Two professors of economics at West Virginia University have recently stated that six counties in West Virginia are currently living in their own version the Great Depression, having lost between 25% to 33% of their jobs in the last few years.
We haven't seen many images of rural poverty in the news since the 1960's. I thank the author of this article for attempting to revisit the issue. Not just jobs in coal have fled---factories also have shut down over the decades, and yes, those jobs went overseas where worker's could be paid a pittance and safety issues ignored.
Perhaps it is time for another New Deal. People in Appalachia used to have pictures of Franklin Roosevelt hanging in their living rooms. A massive government investment in much-needed infrastructure improvement would help put blue-collar people back to work. Where would the money come from? Defense, which is ridiculously over-funded? Taxing the wealthy at a more progressive rate and closing loopholes? I don't know why Democrats haven't played up in Appalachia that Donald Trump will be more of the same Republican supply-side theory that helped reduce the quality of life for the average worker in the first place.
Times of severe economic distress induce hopelessness and a desire for change, any change. Democrats could once again own a New Deal and take back Appalachia.
We haven't seen many images of rural poverty in the news since the 1960's. I thank the author of this article for attempting to revisit the issue. Not just jobs in coal have fled---factories also have shut down over the decades, and yes, those jobs went overseas where worker's could be paid a pittance and safety issues ignored.
Perhaps it is time for another New Deal. People in Appalachia used to have pictures of Franklin Roosevelt hanging in their living rooms. A massive government investment in much-needed infrastructure improvement would help put blue-collar people back to work. Where would the money come from? Defense, which is ridiculously over-funded? Taxing the wealthy at a more progressive rate and closing loopholes? I don't know why Democrats haven't played up in Appalachia that Donald Trump will be more of the same Republican supply-side theory that helped reduce the quality of life for the average worker in the first place.
Times of severe economic distress induce hopelessness and a desire for change, any change. Democrats could once again own a New Deal and take back Appalachia.
14
Republicans have and will continue to block any such effort. At least in Kentucky, they want to be able to keep alive the false narrative behind the slogan "War on Coal", which will lose its effectiveness if people's lives/prospects improve. And, with a Republican Senator from Kentucky as the Majority Leader, I feel confident he would ruthlessly enforce his party's refusal to help. He has even turned his back on a plan to save the relatively meager pension and health benefits of a few thousand retired union miners.
3
500,000 textile, apparel and furniture jobs disappeared in North and South Carolina in a 15 year period that ended around 2007. But, no voters in the two states are delusional enough to expect Donald Trump to bring back those jobs back to the US.
4
The take-away message from disgruntled Trump voters in Appalachia is not that Trump will actually solve their economic decline, but that he will drag down the rest of the country to their level. That is their revenge.
11
When jobs dried up in my home state (not where I live now) I packed up and moved to another state for work. I was once broke and homeless with 2 kids so I KNOW poverty and desperation. My parents taught me to pull myself up by my own boot straps and I did. Coal country states seem to think it is their God given right to remain where they are, where the jobs have been drying up for years (even decades) and demand that the rest of the US come and help them. I have lived in 5 states where the economy is great and there are help wanted signs hanging in windows. To elect a president you describe as dangerous solely for YOUR needs is not only short-sighted and ignorant but also selfish.
Wake up and realize that 99.99% of what Trump even says he will do will NEVER be implemented or allowed by neither a Republican nor Democratic Congress as they control the purse strings of this nation - not the President.
Wake up and realize that 99.99% of what Trump even says he will do will NEVER be implemented or allowed by neither a Republican nor Democratic Congress as they control the purse strings of this nation - not the President.
11
Move. Everyone else in every U.S. region left behind economically has had to do the same. Ask Buffalo about the GOP, its venture capitalists or cessation night trains to NYC that took goods and foods to market. The people who stayed behind in Western NY vote GOP. Look what it did for them over the last 50 plus years. Like a child who itches to destroy his toys, Trump feeds on the GOP's middle class destructive evolution. Dangerous, you bet.
4
Racism, racists and dog whistles. Here, Boy! Sorry, but since they like straight talk so much, there it is. Nice try, leading with the bit about the lady who voted Obama in '08. And she thought he was one of the good ones, but he turned out to be all scheming and crafty-like. Just goes to show. I almost wish Trump could win without bringing us all down in flames; it'd almost be worth it to see the looks on their faces as they twist in the wind, waiting for their coal jobs to reappear just because he said so. As if big coal is doing them a favor by sending them down the black hole. I guess anything's better than having to read books.
6
Would someone at the NYT please find a new place to go? How many of these Appalachia/coal miner stories have there been? Appalachia reflects just a few electoral college votes and southwester VA (Appalachia) is swamped by the far more educated, prosperous and moderate suburban DC voters.
4
Stupid is as stupid does. Big article about how ignorant people will cast their vote in a state know for ignorance and underemployment. Nothing will bring back her husband's lost coal mining job; not Trump, not Clinton. Perhaps he should seek employment elsewhere or seek retraining or move or stop blaming his own failure to thrive in Appalachia (where I grew up) or anywhere else on anything but his or her own failure to compete. What hogwash.
8
What the coal industry needs is a modern George Washington Carver to find and develop new carbon dioxide free uses for coal, just as Mr. Carver found multitudinous uses for the peanut. One such use would be the ability to mass produce carbon fiber for use in fabrics and structures. The market for mined coal will never return to levels of the past, but any loss would be enough to eliminate the hideous technique of mountain-top mining.
2
If there is one thing apparent from the article it's that there are now two Americas. The differences between them appear to be irreconcilable. One hates the other with an absolute passion and would apparently be willing to destroy the nation to get to them. In gathering to Trump, they are quite willing (knowingly) to allow him to destroy the country to enable them to rebuild it in their fantasy image. That they mistake Trump's ability to say whatever he thinks his followers want to hear for "straight talk" is a measure of how desperate they are. These are people change and modernity left behind and they are angry, very angry.
Assuming that Trump loses it will be incumbent on Hillary and progressives in general to deal with this. These people are not just in places like Kentucky but go to upstate New York; the Adirondacks, the Southern Tier, Tug Hill, just about any part of New York that's a bit off the beaten path for people in the metro area. The "new economy" means nothing to most of these people. The were the factory workers, construction workers, truck drivers of this country. Men and women who worked hard and mostly earned good money. Yet when recovery came (the last few of recessions) they've been left behind. A GE or Carrier plant in upstate that paid $35/40 an hour with benefits or IBM (even more) is replaced by a Walmart Distribution Center at half that or less. The GAP center that just burned in Fishkill replaced the jobs taken by IBM layoffs. Think about it.
Assuming that Trump loses it will be incumbent on Hillary and progressives in general to deal with this. These people are not just in places like Kentucky but go to upstate New York; the Adirondacks, the Southern Tier, Tug Hill, just about any part of New York that's a bit off the beaten path for people in the metro area. The "new economy" means nothing to most of these people. The were the factory workers, construction workers, truck drivers of this country. Men and women who worked hard and mostly earned good money. Yet when recovery came (the last few of recessions) they've been left behind. A GE or Carrier plant in upstate that paid $35/40 an hour with benefits or IBM (even more) is replaced by a Walmart Distribution Center at half that or less. The GAP center that just burned in Fishkill replaced the jobs taken by IBM layoffs. Think about it.
6
Oh, Roger. I am surprised at you. Of all the NYT columnists, you have the best sense, based on your and your family's history, of how fragile society's values and the political system are. Yet you say that our political systems can withstand Trump's idiocy and craziness. How effective were Germany's and Italy's systems? How effective was rational discourse in the recent Brexit debate? How difficult was it for strongmen to subvert and hope for participatory democracy in Russia and Turkey?
Our institutions are strong, but not idiot-proof!
Our institutions are strong, but not idiot-proof!
5
Solar anyone? Clean, fresh, sustainable, new.
There must be a (potential) leader in this industry, or president of this country, (reading this article and) investigating the possibilities in these regions. Train people, employ people, manufacture (all locally), change, contribute in a positive way to the future of the environment (without horrible fracking), re-create the middle class that should always be, the heart and soul of America. All good.
Solar energy might not do it all, but could be a good start.
There must be a (potential) leader in this industry, or president of this country, (reading this article and) investigating the possibilities in these regions. Train people, employ people, manufacture (all locally), change, contribute in a positive way to the future of the environment (without horrible fracking), re-create the middle class that should always be, the heart and soul of America. All good.
Solar energy might not do it all, but could be a good start.
4
Sooo....
Let's risk a nuclear war, so long as daddy has a job?
That about sums it up. One of the great fears when the founders met in Philadelphia and gave birth to what was a weak democracy with only one body of government (The House of Representatives) elected directly by the people was that citizens would think about their pocketbook first and vote accordingly. The tendency is understandable, but when it involves the abandonment of larger citizenship, we are in deep trouble.
This sympathetic news article is larded extensively with talking points from right wing talk radio and Fox Faked News. It shows, unintentionally, how the right in America has managed to both penetrate the daily dialog in places like eastern Kentucky and also how to dominate it. It shows how the right in America gave birth to Trump by constantly pounding dissatisfaction about Obama, laying the groundwork for the potential demise of the Republican party.
The people of "coal country" are in a similar bind right now to that once faced by tobacco farmers. Both their products kill millions of people, tobacco directly through smoking and coal indirectly through air pollution. Donald Trump's boastfulness about what he could do as president would be met by opposition here and around the world. Fight change all you want, that doesn't change basic fact and, sooner or later, those facts will win out over sentiment. The results in jobs and lives will be very difficult, but it will happen anyway.
Let's risk a nuclear war, so long as daddy has a job?
That about sums it up. One of the great fears when the founders met in Philadelphia and gave birth to what was a weak democracy with only one body of government (The House of Representatives) elected directly by the people was that citizens would think about their pocketbook first and vote accordingly. The tendency is understandable, but when it involves the abandonment of larger citizenship, we are in deep trouble.
This sympathetic news article is larded extensively with talking points from right wing talk radio and Fox Faked News. It shows, unintentionally, how the right in America has managed to both penetrate the daily dialog in places like eastern Kentucky and also how to dominate it. It shows how the right in America gave birth to Trump by constantly pounding dissatisfaction about Obama, laying the groundwork for the potential demise of the Republican party.
The people of "coal country" are in a similar bind right now to that once faced by tobacco farmers. Both their products kill millions of people, tobacco directly through smoking and coal indirectly through air pollution. Donald Trump's boastfulness about what he could do as president would be met by opposition here and around the world. Fight change all you want, that doesn't change basic fact and, sooner or later, those facts will win out over sentiment. The results in jobs and lives will be very difficult, but it will happen anyway.
5
I am by no means an expert, but I do have four fairly meaningful points on the Appalachian coal issue:
>of course fracking is producing cheaper, lower emissions fuel for power
generation, and it's unlikely to change.
>clean energy sources are growing rapidly. China is onboard with this.
>open pit mining in the west is cheaper to access.
>employment in the industry generally is dropping due to automation.
It seems pretty clear that winners should compensate losers through a public/private effort. Where are you, Congress?
>of course fracking is producing cheaper, lower emissions fuel for power
generation, and it's unlikely to change.
>clean energy sources are growing rapidly. China is onboard with this.
>open pit mining in the west is cheaper to access.
>employment in the industry generally is dropping due to automation.
It seems pretty clear that winners should compensate losers through a public/private effort. Where are you, Congress?
2
Mr Cohen,
Thanks for this morning read. I found it very helpful in trying to understand the the complexities that we all face as Americans.
Thanks for this morning read. I found it very helpful in trying to understand the the complexities that we all face as Americans.
1
Many commenters here seem to miss the point entirely. Assuming that these people from "Trump Country" are voting for him based purely on race, what is wrong with that?
Ethnic nationalism is a human right. The opposite can only be described as ethnic genocide, a point which I agree with white nationalists. It's arguably more important than economic well-being, for a society without inequality is not a society at all.
Ethnic nationalism is a human right. The opposite can only be described as ethnic genocide, a point which I agree with white nationalists. It's arguably more important than economic well-being, for a society without inequality is not a society at all.
3
The desperation and myopia of people who are tied to a place by dependence on a dying industry and lack of education can be understood.
For Peter Thiel and others with means and complete fluidity, there is no earthly excuse or forgiveness. Hate or greed (or both) are their only possible "rational" reasons for choosing to put the know nothing trigger finger of Trump on the nuclear button.
Identifying and avoiding these folks and their businesses have become a necessary part of life going forward.
For Peter Thiel and others with means and complete fluidity, there is no earthly excuse or forgiveness. Hate or greed (or both) are their only possible "rational" reasons for choosing to put the know nothing trigger finger of Trump on the nuclear button.
Identifying and avoiding these folks and their businesses have become a necessary part of life going forward.
1
Why they blame the government instead of the economic system still baffles me, although I know many people in Kentucky and have a feel for their instincts. Capitalism has always treated eastern Kentucky poorly--extraction industries tend to do that--and they don't put much pressure on the education system to provide high skill workers.
3
Most of America wonders how did we wind up with two corrupt serial liars as our choice for our next President. No matter who wins, I see a horrible next four years since half the country will have no respect for our new leader. Ironic, that either vice presidential candidate is the type of person who should occupy the White House.
2
The money behind big coal is doing everything it can to forestall the major transition this country will make to green energy. A major sign of coal's disinterest in the well being of its workforce is that it has not done anything to
retrain these workers in other occupations, especially those that support the transition. They are being left behind by the same type of predatory capitalists that they are looking to save them.
retrain these workers in other occupations, especially those that support the transition. They are being left behind by the same type of predatory capitalists that they are looking to save them.
2
There are two mantras that drive such people: (1) Trump is going to "do something" - they don't know what, but something; (2) They "just don't trust" Hillary - they don't know why, but somehow.
4
Coal miners make great money and then do what with it? They knew all along that the industry was a dying one so they knew this end was inevitable. they want no to rally around a man that has no answer for their plight except empty words and rhetoric-replace coal exactly how? don;'t know but we will. Give you health insurance - you mean like the single payer plan that congress republicans voted down. Technical trying programs that hey, the republicans don't want and don't push for.... This article is true, but the people have no -one to blame but themselves. When Trump and his ilk manufacture overseas in order to line their own pockets no one stood up and said no, their own fault.
4
Someday, maybe that day will come. Being raise in a household which frowned upon 'people of color, my views and opinions expressed 'around the dinner table' were believed to be pragmatic and objective. Specifically, I remember one question I threw out there: "Why not just look at everyone as if they were without a color, a religion or an accent, and listen to what they have to say. Judge them by their actions?" This was about 50 years ago. Today, reading through the prism of my life experiences and memories, both the article, of Mr. Cohen's objective reporting and readers "I have the answer" comments, I'm left with both amazement and disappointment. Amazed that the issue of race is still 'front and center' with some validation, and disappointed that, still, a culture of spectacular citizenry can not rise above the past and move on. United we stand, divided....... Someday, maybe that day will come.
" the blame is aimed at airy-fairy liberals more concerned about climate change — often contested or derided — than about Americans trying to make their house payments."
That in a nut-shell is exactly why so many, many people can't stand and intact loathe Hillary Clinton. Hillary doesn't get it. Obama didn't get it. The Democrats didn't get it.
People are losing jobs, homes and access to education. People are watching as their cities and communities are stripped of jobs, factories and industry. They watch in pained silence as storefronts are emptied and factories, once humming are now empty and idle. For what? For ideals expressed as saving the planet? For climate warming? Hillary and Bill Clinton, were asked about the economy and jobs offered this "Those jobs are not coming back!" Hilary went on to say that coal would be shut down! What is wrong her? The trade deals signed by Bill Clinton have devastated the nation. Why are we importing almost everything once manufactured in the U.S.? Why do we allow corporations to park trillions of dollars overseas and not bring it back to the U.S.? Hillary can't tell us. We're tired of being lectured to about high ideals. We no longer manufacture furniture, appliances, TVs, electronics, cameras, clothing, textiles, shoes and even drug compounds. Why? Why Hillary? Because Nafta and trade deals once the darling of Bill Clinton and the Democrats have left a trail of devastated, broke and unemployed communities. That's why.
That in a nut-shell is exactly why so many, many people can't stand and intact loathe Hillary Clinton. Hillary doesn't get it. Obama didn't get it. The Democrats didn't get it.
People are losing jobs, homes and access to education. People are watching as their cities and communities are stripped of jobs, factories and industry. They watch in pained silence as storefronts are emptied and factories, once humming are now empty and idle. For what? For ideals expressed as saving the planet? For climate warming? Hillary and Bill Clinton, were asked about the economy and jobs offered this "Those jobs are not coming back!" Hilary went on to say that coal would be shut down! What is wrong her? The trade deals signed by Bill Clinton have devastated the nation. Why are we importing almost everything once manufactured in the U.S.? Why do we allow corporations to park trillions of dollars overseas and not bring it back to the U.S.? Hillary can't tell us. We're tired of being lectured to about high ideals. We no longer manufacture furniture, appliances, TVs, electronics, cameras, clothing, textiles, shoes and even drug compounds. Why? Why Hillary? Because Nafta and trade deals once the darling of Bill Clinton and the Democrats have left a trail of devastated, broke and unemployed communities. That's why.
6
Another reason to read Moby Dick, the great novel by Herman Melville, is its fascinating contemporaneous description of whaling, the 19th century's other extractive energy industry. Yet, we no longer mourn the loss of those jobs. No politician promises to bring them back.
In 40 years, I've moved myself and my family halfway across the country five times in pursuit of education and a career that, while not enriching us, have given us many great opportunities. Curse the darkness or light a wind-powered LED, coal miners.
In 40 years, I've moved myself and my family halfway across the country five times in pursuit of education and a career that, while not enriching us, have given us many great opportunities. Curse the darkness or light a wind-powered LED, coal miners.
6
The blue collar people in the coal mining region have not been left behind, they just haven't moved forward. This area has always been poor as dirt except for the short time when the unions had power and the FDR New Deal brought gov't services.
Efforts to bring the region into the 21st century have to be made but only so much can be done if bashing the people who want to help is their response. No one tells them what to do is part of the culture because to have someone tell them what to do means they have to get out of the rocker and work a bit.
Faith has played a large part in their belief that better days are ahead. Trump is like an evangelical preacher to them, promising salvation for a bit of money. Give him the country and watch it disappear.
Efforts to bring the region into the 21st century have to be made but only so much can be done if bashing the people who want to help is their response. No one tells them what to do is part of the culture because to have someone tell them what to do means they have to get out of the rocker and work a bit.
Faith has played a large part in their belief that better days are ahead. Trump is like an evangelical preacher to them, promising salvation for a bit of money. Give him the country and watch it disappear.
4
Buggy whips. whale oil and coal.
5
First, we don't owe these nitwits a living. Why are they nitwits? Many voted for the new governor based on his vow to deprive people of health care. Many voted against their well being.
3
The irony here is that most of these coal mining jobs have been lost because utilities are switching to cheaper natural gas. If anything this has happened more because of good old Republican free enterprise and pro oil and natural gas policies.
The coments in this Letters section are excellent but these are from those who got out. The many people in this article are dug in and have no intention of digging out. Time will pass them by. Lost societies are ubiquitous.
1
in all of this not one picture of the devastation of mountain top coal mining nor the mention of tainted water sources that are gone forever. this is one of the most beautiful scenic areas in our country and it has been destroyed by greed and hubris. these people could be in the vanguard of tourism and it's mostly clean outcomes.
6
The Trumpsters here haven't figured out that it's been the Republicans and the very rich behind the Republicans they have to blame for their situation, not Obama or any Democrat.
That along with the bad luck to have been part of a declining industry. Just as Obama does not have the power to push an industry down, Trump has nothing to raise it up. How exactly could anyone reawaken coal - and why would they want to? Their are much better alternatives. Talk about pie-in-the-sky, these Trumpsters are fools.
These are the people that buy lottery tickets.
That along with the bad luck to have been part of a declining industry. Just as Obama does not have the power to push an industry down, Trump has nothing to raise it up. How exactly could anyone reawaken coal - and why would they want to? Their are much better alternatives. Talk about pie-in-the-sky, these Trumpsters are fools.
These are the people that buy lottery tickets.
5
History - not just in this country - is rife with examples, almost trite at this point - of whole industries that became obsolete over time, and of the stories of the failure or success of those companies, towns and individuals who saw the changes coming - or at least accepted them when they were inevitable - and changed and adapted to the new reality - or not.
You know, the wagon wheel company that learned to make, sell and repair tires; the farrier that got a good paying job in one of Henry Ford's horseless carriage factories; the stage coach driver that became a steam engine engineer. Did all of them love the change? Bet not. But did they and their families and towns fair better than those that stood around, blamed changing times and complained? Yep.
And remember, those were the days before ANY kind of public assistance, scholarships, financial assistance, job training or health programs, the internet or cell phones to find jobs or opportunities. When relocating meant a whole different thing.
And it wasn't all that long ago. Not long before the days when coal was king.
People coming back from WWII had to face a new world - go back to school, fill new jobs in retooled manufacturing, absorb new technologies developed at breakneck speed during the war. Women had to figure where they fit in.
And now a new technological world.
And things are only going to change faster.
Blame or adapt.
Complain - or change yourself.
You know, the wagon wheel company that learned to make, sell and repair tires; the farrier that got a good paying job in one of Henry Ford's horseless carriage factories; the stage coach driver that became a steam engine engineer. Did all of them love the change? Bet not. But did they and their families and towns fair better than those that stood around, blamed changing times and complained? Yep.
And remember, those were the days before ANY kind of public assistance, scholarships, financial assistance, job training or health programs, the internet or cell phones to find jobs or opportunities. When relocating meant a whole different thing.
And it wasn't all that long ago. Not long before the days when coal was king.
People coming back from WWII had to face a new world - go back to school, fill new jobs in retooled manufacturing, absorb new technologies developed at breakneck speed during the war. Women had to figure where they fit in.
And now a new technological world.
And things are only going to change faster.
Blame or adapt.
Complain - or change yourself.
4
Hillary Clinton has woefully failed to address the issue of Trump's dishonest business practices. even the conservative National Review wrote an article pointing out that Trump has repeatedly cheated people, failed to pay people for work done and that he even used illegal aliens to build Trump Tower. Yet there is no Clinton ad pointing this out. There would be no better way to end Trump's "Man of the People" image than to run and run and run an ad about Trump's repeated cheating of ordinary people. That the Clinton campaign still has failed to run no such ad is a monument to unbelievable stupidity.
If you are a struggling businessperson and you are given a new client who is a thug thinking “sure they hurt people but they may not hurt me” or “I may be luckier than them” you will get hurt. Thugs only know how to do one thing and that is break the law, take 10 times more than they agreed to take, and get away with it every single time, and they lie like no one ever could. And what about the rest of the nation that is not living in a place that has few economic reasons to exist? What about those Trump voters that are already raking it in and gaming the system. All they want is more more more at everyone else’s expense. This is a self-created disaster and the enemies of the USA love it. It is another mega lottery win for them.
2
We had a chance for change with Bernie.Too bad we passed it by.
1
I'm an old Appalachian. My bona fides are that my grandfather started work in the mines at the age of 8. He worked until his late 60s, with some years off during the depression, a couple of which were spent as a hobo, traveling around the country looking for work, which never materialized for a guy who only went to the 3rd grade (but had nevertheless learned to read and write well). He used to send a birthday card every year to John L Lewis, because John L got him a pension. My other grandfather had not only finished high school but spent a year at college and briefly taught in a one room schoolhouse.
With what I saw as those two alternatives, I was able to follow the second, after Sputnik and American embarrassment and fear pumped federal money into education. I "got out" through schooling. people shouldn't have to "get out." If education has become an industry then that's the industry that needs to replace coal. All us Appalachians love our kids as much as the non-Appalachians and any "desperation" and openness to Trump is a function of fear for our kids. Mr. Cohen notes how many voted for Obama and his message of hope. The message they need to hear is how the Republican Congress prevented that hope from materializing.
With what I saw as those two alternatives, I was able to follow the second, after Sputnik and American embarrassment and fear pumped federal money into education. I "got out" through schooling. people shouldn't have to "get out." If education has become an industry then that's the industry that needs to replace coal. All us Appalachians love our kids as much as the non-Appalachians and any "desperation" and openness to Trump is a function of fear for our kids. Mr. Cohen notes how many voted for Obama and his message of hope. The message they need to hear is how the Republican Congress prevented that hope from materializing.
7
Nice outline of the dilemma faced by voters... but what is worse is that if Clinton gets in the GOP civil war will continue to paralyze government. But if Trump wins it seems unlikely the ideas that pop out in those rare moments of lucidness will get done -- as much as he admires Putin, the US is not Russia. And besides, somehow it seems personal profit drives his decision-making more than other sentiments. The pity is that change is more likely to come from collapse than intention.
2
I think it is quite unfair to argue that Trump's support comes greatest from the people of Appalachia. I personally know many educated professionals who support Trump. In fact I am personally offended by the assertion that because of Appalachians' lack of sophistication they support Trump; I am personally offended because my family's roots are from that part of the nation. I have been there; I know these people. When will the liberals realize that the world does not revolve only around them? If their clamor for "diversity" demands an appreciation for all cultures and people, well then they need to embrace the people of Appalachia too, rather than marginal, malign, and denigrate them. Thank you.
10
I applaud Mr. Cohen's feeble attempt at being neutral in this article. At least he reported opposite viewpoints seemingly accurately.
What he and other people seem not to understand is that the voter unrest in the US goes beyond the population discussed here. Many white, educated individuals, seeing the devastation to much of our country brought on by the recent recession, by globalization and by seeming indifference of most of the politicians, have also decided that something has to change. Sure, Trump is a poor candidate from the traditional point of view, but his success standing against the well oiled Clinton and Democratic machines says a lot about the lack of appeal of those forces.
Even if Trump loses, the politicians might be forced to see what we have had for the last eight years is not working.
What he and other people seem not to understand is that the voter unrest in the US goes beyond the population discussed here. Many white, educated individuals, seeing the devastation to much of our country brought on by the recent recession, by globalization and by seeming indifference of most of the politicians, have also decided that something has to change. Sure, Trump is a poor candidate from the traditional point of view, but his success standing against the well oiled Clinton and Democratic machines says a lot about the lack of appeal of those forces.
Even if Trump loses, the politicians might be forced to see what we have had for the last eight years is not working.
4
Just as fracking has caused a dramatic uptick in the number and size of earthquakes in Oklahoma and elsewhere, so also has the products of coal mining contributed to the decimation of our climate. Lovers of fossil fuels, more specifically, lovers of the incomes from fossil fuels, can deny the cause/effect relationships or even totally debunk the science, but the world knows better. Just as any scientist will tell you, you don't have to believe in gravity to be affected by it. And as soon as fossil fuel companies can figure out a way to own the sun and wind and waves and sell it back to us suckers, they will embrace alternative energies.
8
First, all of these people have earned their way and as Americans and they deserve the supports that we can provide. What we need to do is elect a Democratic controlled Congress, so we can help turn their lives around. They need the kind of 'New Deal" action of the 1930's.
6
The essence of truth: "America has become tribal".
Ours is a fractured society whose self interests are 180 degrees out of sync between the different areas of the nation. There is absolutely no way to reconcile the interests of a Kentucky with that of a New York. Truth be known, they don't even like each other, and each holds the other in contempt.
Ours is a fractured society whose self interests are 180 degrees out of sync between the different areas of the nation. There is absolutely no way to reconcile the interests of a Kentucky with that of a New York. Truth be known, they don't even like each other, and each holds the other in contempt.
8
My wife's family is and have been in the coal business for over 100 years. The coal business goes through cycles. I remember when the coal business was awful in the early 1970's. You could buy a great house for $20,000 that costs $500,000 today. But look at the changes in the ECONOMY!
1. Do you have a coal fired kitchen stove or hot water heater? Why not?
2. Do you heat your home with a coal stove or furnace? I remember both. The local coal yard went out of business because people wanted electric or gas for heating cooling, cooking .
3. I remember when most towns in the south had textile mills. I also remember when the textile workers started buying imported textiles because they were CHEAPER that what American businesses could make.
4. I remember when every town had small businesses for clothing, cookware, etc. But you could buy it for less at Walmart. If you can save 6-10% on back to school clothing at a box store, the local business goes out of business.
Obama has not declared war on coal. It's the economy stupid! Why pay more for coal generated electricity when natural gas is much cheaper. Do you really want to pay more for coal?
Even the met grade coal market is down because we can recycle old steel into new steel with less energy ( Met grade coal) than smelting new iron ore. The quality is equal and the price is less. Do you really want to spend more?
Our five children earn less relatively than my wife and I did. Even the two lawyers had to move.
1. Do you have a coal fired kitchen stove or hot water heater? Why not?
2. Do you heat your home with a coal stove or furnace? I remember both. The local coal yard went out of business because people wanted electric or gas for heating cooling, cooking .
3. I remember when most towns in the south had textile mills. I also remember when the textile workers started buying imported textiles because they were CHEAPER that what American businesses could make.
4. I remember when every town had small businesses for clothing, cookware, etc. But you could buy it for less at Walmart. If you can save 6-10% on back to school clothing at a box store, the local business goes out of business.
Obama has not declared war on coal. It's the economy stupid! Why pay more for coal generated electricity when natural gas is much cheaper. Do you really want to pay more for coal?
Even the met grade coal market is down because we can recycle old steel into new steel with less energy ( Met grade coal) than smelting new iron ore. The quality is equal and the price is less. Do you really want to spend more?
Our five children earn less relatively than my wife and I did. Even the two lawyers had to move.
14
Trump was right when he said that Hillary's pronouncement that most Trump supporters are "deplorables" was the worst mistake of the season. This op ed explains why.
6
Maine is 96% white. The industries that fueled Maine, shoe factories, textile mills, pulp and paper factories are gone. Nothing has replaced them. Tourism is our biggest industry and Southern Maine is a bedroom community for Boston. We have a crazy governor elected with 48% of the vote in a 3 way race. Come up here and see the difference, people are looking for a change, but are not blaming the President for the results of automation, trade decisions, allowing off shore incorporation, (and the list goes on). Most people want change, not blowing up the country.
9
If Trump wins the White House, there will be change. Unfortunately it is not going to be the kind of change these folks want.
It will shake everything up, and, if the world survives, could possibly lead to something better.
But the odds of world civilization ending are too great.
It all reminds me of the period leading up to the French revolution at the end of the 18th century. But mob rule didn't have access to nuclear weapons then.
It will shake everything up, and, if the world survives, could possibly lead to something better.
But the odds of world civilization ending are too great.
It all reminds me of the period leading up to the French revolution at the end of the 18th century. But mob rule didn't have access to nuclear weapons then.
3
I think there is something seriously wrong with Hillary Clinton. I don't know what it is but she LIES all the time. Trump is a successful business man and at least acts like he loves this country. I like and admire the way he responds to every attack on him. The response that he made about his private part after being disrespected by Marco Rubio was clean and funny. I did not hear him bragging. Sure he has been divorced twice but he doesn't drink, smoke, or use drugs. And his outstanding fathering skills are undisputed. He speaks respectfully about his children's mothers and that shows the ultimate love for his children. And when he makes bold remarks on issues and is criticized by the media, most of the time he is right about the information. I rarely hear the media correcting their criticism. I plan to vote for Trump because I believe that he is sincere in trying to help people find jobs. Hillary has been in politics 30+ years and if she was interested in people having jobs, she has had plenty of time to do something about it. Time to give an outsider businessman an opportunity to help the country. I am more afraid of what Hillary Clinton would do to the Supreme Court than anything Trump would do. I feel sure that a lot of the people in KY feel like I do. I am just an America grandmother.
7
I feel for the good people of Paris Kentucky and all of the coal employees that are loosing their jobs, just like I did with the tobacco growers and the artists who used to draw images of products for the Montgomery Ward catalog, right after they switched to photographs. Unlike that situation however fossil fuels are wreaking havoc with the planet and none of our jobs is more important than that. These same people can be assembling wind turbines, installing solar panels or reclaiming the devastation coal has brought to their environs. It may or may not pay as much as a their coal job did, but coal, in this country, has been shrinking for more than a century. The writing has been on the wall for a long time. Donald Trump supplies easy answers to complex problems, I see the appeal of that. He just happens to be wrong. What's upsetting is they know he's wrong and are going to vote foe him anyway.
8
I had coffee at a McDonalds in coal country once. I don't know exactly what was in the water there but it had a horrible chemical taste and I assume it had to do with run-off from the mining industry.
One sip and I was done.
Wonderful people, though, and I wish them the best
It's unlikely that mining companies will just walk away and leave money in the ground. But in the same way we try to encourage Third World countries to keep natural habitats intact, perhaps there is a way to encourage Appalachian governors to preserve their air, water and land.
One sip and I was done.
Wonderful people, though, and I wish them the best
It's unlikely that mining companies will just walk away and leave money in the ground. But in the same way we try to encourage Third World countries to keep natural habitats intact, perhaps there is a way to encourage Appalachian governors to preserve their air, water and land.
6
Balderdash. These folks love that Trump says out loud the narrow minded stuff they've been saying behind closed doors. Paint a pig all pretty-like and it's still a pig.
4
My husband lost the only job he knew 9 years ago as the glass industry fell to the economic free-fall of the Bush administration. 32 years, lots of retirement dreams, pension...the whole American Dream came to a crash one Thursday afternoon when, with no warning, they shut down his shop. So, no pension, many adjustments (emotionally and financially) and the question of how do we maneuver through this huge change in our lives.
I like to think we did what our ancestors (Irish immigrants, Scottish immigrants) did when things got tough; we changed how we lived our lives. We changed our finances, we changed our attitudes about retirement; we accepted that life is difficult and that change is inevitable. And we grew stronger as a result of this experience.
Donald Trump is not going to show up in Appalachia with a magic wand and make everything better for anyone. He cares for no one but himself and these folks are sadly deluding themselves if they believe otherwise.
I like to think we did what our ancestors (Irish immigrants, Scottish immigrants) did when things got tough; we changed how we lived our lives. We changed our finances, we changed our attitudes about retirement; we accepted that life is difficult and that change is inevitable. And we grew stronger as a result of this experience.
Donald Trump is not going to show up in Appalachia with a magic wand and make everything better for anyone. He cares for no one but himself and these folks are sadly deluding themselves if they believe otherwise.
13
The last lines of this article – "I just don't care." – sum up my experience of Trump supporters nicely, here in Appalachia and elsewhere. It's not that they're stupid (they most definitely aren't) and that they don't see Trump as a bombastic, out-of-control demagogue (they see him for exactly what he is), it's that they're tired of being left behind as the world changes around them. No, these aren't the racists and the rich who are decrying social and cultural changes on the basis of abhorrent ideologies (racism and laissez-faire capitalism) but people who just wanted to get on with their lives, make a good living, and take care of their families. If you don't understand how Trump represents the political antithesis of what's been going on not just in the last eight years but throughout the last twenty-four you're missing the point; Trump is appealing precisely because he's so different from the insincerity of the political machinations that has been the hallmark of both parties: a stream of disingenuity that pays lip service to the needs of the American people while clearly being nothing more than self-adulation and enrichment. And, no, Trump isn't really any different in that respect, but the people in this article know he's different enough and they just don't care anymore about conforming to the "right" way of doing things because caring has meant nothing but hardship for them. For representing how these people feel, this was a great article.
14
"To these people, Trump’s “Make America Great Again” is not the empty rhetoric of a media-savvy con artist from Queens but a last-ditch rallying cry for the soul of a changing land where minorities will be the majority by the middle of the century."
And that's what is so brilliant about the strategy. It's textbook double speak. The superficial level has to be true enough to hide the dog whistled message in order to swat the critics away.
But the elephant in the room is if Trump can really help these people he will have to do it with social programs, the same programs republican governors tend to eschew, like raising taxes and supporting a minimum wage increase.
Many conservatives have said Trump is a democrat running as a republican. They may be right. Remember, people tend to like Obamacare if you call it something else.
And that's what is so brilliant about the strategy. It's textbook double speak. The superficial level has to be true enough to hide the dog whistled message in order to swat the critics away.
But the elephant in the room is if Trump can really help these people he will have to do it with social programs, the same programs republican governors tend to eschew, like raising taxes and supporting a minimum wage increase.
Many conservatives have said Trump is a democrat running as a republican. They may be right. Remember, people tend to like Obamacare if you call it something else.
1
According to the headline "Appalachian voters know perfect well that the candidate is dangerous." However, they are going to vote for him in droves, because they angry. It's tragic, disappoint and, yes, angering that they willing to risk the future of the country for themselves, their children and the rest of us because they're in a snit. It makes no sense.
4
"I love Trump,” she declares. “He shoots from the hip.”
But, I ask, isn’t that dangerous?
“I don’t care. After all we’ve been through, I just don’t care.”"
***********
Now tell me that Clinton's remarks were not correct.
But, I ask, isn’t that dangerous?
“I don’t care. After all we’ve been through, I just don’t care.”"
***********
Now tell me that Clinton's remarks were not correct.
7
The statement that Trump will balance the books is so ludicrous. He has already given his financial plan which drastically cuts taxes to the rich and to large companies, taxes we desperately need now and are not getting. In addition he is going to increase the military budget. So what is he going to cut? Education, infrastructure, aide to dependent children, Medicare, Medicaid that's what. That will not be a Boone to Appilachians.
They need education for new jobs that move into the 21st century no the ones from days gone by. Coal is done. Let's move on and if one needs to move, that is what the rest of us have had to do.
They need education for new jobs that move into the 21st century no the ones from days gone by. Coal is done. Let's move on and if one needs to move, that is what the rest of us have had to do.
9
It seems to me that Paris Kentucky and coal is a good example of what divides the country. A functioning democracy will tend to focus on the needs of the majority over the long run. That is how it should be. But in our country today, a sizable majority of the country lives on coasts and in cities and a sizeable minority lives in less populated areas, like Paris Kentucky.
The coal business has died not because of anything that Obama or any other politician has done; it has been the glut of natural gas in the country. Natural gas provides lots of advantages to consumers - mainly it is cheaper. Now it also is more environmentally friendly than coal, but that is definitely not the reason natural gas has replaced coal. Regulations tightening up emissions from power plants are easier for natural gas plants to meet, but these regulations came out after coal was buried.
This is all great for a majority of American's but the minority feels understandably aggrieved. But politics will not turn back the clock to 1976. People are not going to leave the coasts and move to Indiana and Kentucky just because Trump is elected and certainly he will not bring coal back from the dead.
The coal business has died not because of anything that Obama or any other politician has done; it has been the glut of natural gas in the country. Natural gas provides lots of advantages to consumers - mainly it is cheaper. Now it also is more environmentally friendly than coal, but that is definitely not the reason natural gas has replaced coal. Regulations tightening up emissions from power plants are easier for natural gas plants to meet, but these regulations came out after coal was buried.
This is all great for a majority of American's but the minority feels understandably aggrieved. But politics will not turn back the clock to 1976. People are not going to leave the coasts and move to Indiana and Kentucky just because Trump is elected and certainly he will not bring coal back from the dead.
6
Trump would certainly be a "spectacular" president, but not in the way these people think. He is all about the wealthy, and doesn't care a whit about these poor, out of work, uneducated hill people. The spectacle they would see from a President Trump is their lives being significantly degraded. Less work, less opportunity to advance, less education, less healthcare, less security, are all Trump values for them. But they keep voting against their own best interests anyway. Studies have documented this. The GOP has been hugely successful in brainwashing them into thinking that Trump is their savior. But he is their Satan instead.
These people aren't stupid. They're desperate for help. But they are blind to the damage Trump would do to them. And Hillary has failed to show that to them.
These people aren't stupid. They're desperate for help. But they are blind to the damage Trump would do to them. And Hillary has failed to show that to them.
5
Where are all the articles about Hillary voters? It always seems as if we obsess about Republican voters while ignoring the voting interests of Democrats. I am not talking about opinion leaders, talking heads or cable news anchors, but average citizens who are looking this election cycle in horror.
It would be interesting to hear from women fearful of losing their autonomy over medical decisions concerning their bodies; US citizens afraid of losing their family members to deportation; religious minority communities targeted by Trumps religious tests; ethnic and religious minorities already feeling under siege by the hateful rhetoric of the campaign; people who care about America's leadership position in the world and are already scared about Trump's destabilization of that position with his ignorance of foreign affairs, cozying up to dictators and bellicose rhetoric; workers who fear how a Trump presidency could effect the economy, worker protections and protections against Wall Street malfeasance; those who care about the direction of the Supreme Court, etc. The relentless focus on Trump voters seems to add greater legitimacy to their concerns while the real fears of every day voters who oppose him seem to not warrant the same coverage.
It would be interesting to hear from women fearful of losing their autonomy over medical decisions concerning their bodies; US citizens afraid of losing their family members to deportation; religious minority communities targeted by Trumps religious tests; ethnic and religious minorities already feeling under siege by the hateful rhetoric of the campaign; people who care about America's leadership position in the world and are already scared about Trump's destabilization of that position with his ignorance of foreign affairs, cozying up to dictators and bellicose rhetoric; workers who fear how a Trump presidency could effect the economy, worker protections and protections against Wall Street malfeasance; those who care about the direction of the Supreme Court, etc. The relentless focus on Trump voters seems to add greater legitimacy to their concerns while the real fears of every day voters who oppose him seem to not warrant the same coverage.
13
In the 1990's, capital flight devastated vibrant East Asian economies. An industry needn't be profitable to provide jobs; all that's needed is a decision in a board room somewhere to provide the capital to run a mine or staff a Costco.
Just as the end of the rains produced drought in Joad-era Oklahoma, the ebb of capital from the Appalachians created a financial drought. Nearly 20 years ago the late Joe Bageant wrote poignantly in "Deer Hunting With Jesus" about his own relatives who had prospered in a well-paying, low-skills economy but now were suffering as, for example, the Rubbermaid factory, squeezed to razor-thin margins by its primary customer, Walmart, had decamped for Mexico.
In too many areas in the United States, people have been sold a bill of goods that includes a reverse snobbery against those who take the time and spend the money to become educated. This election takes place at the intersection of Bad consequences and Life-long denial, and the orange-haired blowhard appeals to those who would rather not examine how their own unfortunate choices and biases have contributed to their peril.
As for Obama, let's not go overboard. He could be black, white, or green. He's a Democrat, and the right-wing noise machine was busy blaming him for the 2008 financial collapse before he even took office. There will be a seamless transition to blaming Clinton; Hannity will merely have to do a search and replace.
Those who claim to speak plainly need to think clearly first.
Just as the end of the rains produced drought in Joad-era Oklahoma, the ebb of capital from the Appalachians created a financial drought. Nearly 20 years ago the late Joe Bageant wrote poignantly in "Deer Hunting With Jesus" about his own relatives who had prospered in a well-paying, low-skills economy but now were suffering as, for example, the Rubbermaid factory, squeezed to razor-thin margins by its primary customer, Walmart, had decamped for Mexico.
In too many areas in the United States, people have been sold a bill of goods that includes a reverse snobbery against those who take the time and spend the money to become educated. This election takes place at the intersection of Bad consequences and Life-long denial, and the orange-haired blowhard appeals to those who would rather not examine how their own unfortunate choices and biases have contributed to their peril.
As for Obama, let's not go overboard. He could be black, white, or green. He's a Democrat, and the right-wing noise machine was busy blaming him for the 2008 financial collapse before he even took office. There will be a seamless transition to blaming Clinton; Hannity will merely have to do a search and replace.
Those who claim to speak plainly need to think clearly first.
9
Excellente piece by Roger Cohen. He has an extraordinary ability to transmit a reality and people's profile via written words.
Reading this piece I became more convinced this 2016 election is NOT, definitely, business as usual.
Paris Kentucky is a microcosmos of this huge continental US of A and its complex multicultural, multiethnic society always pushing the envelope towards the future.
My conclusion. The state of the nation today brings back memories of America prior to the civil war in 1861. The old agricultural slavery economy of the South versus the new industrial economy of the North.
In 2016, Americans will decide by vote -- not armed confrontation -- about the past and the future. Coal is the past while clean energy and IT are the future. The future is now and, clearly, there are winners and losers.
After Tuesday, November 8th the world will know which future American voters have chosen.
Reading this piece I became more convinced this 2016 election is NOT, definitely, business as usual.
Paris Kentucky is a microcosmos of this huge continental US of A and its complex multicultural, multiethnic society always pushing the envelope towards the future.
My conclusion. The state of the nation today brings back memories of America prior to the civil war in 1861. The old agricultural slavery economy of the South versus the new industrial economy of the North.
In 2016, Americans will decide by vote -- not armed confrontation -- about the past and the future. Coal is the past while clean energy and IT are the future. The future is now and, clearly, there are winners and losers.
After Tuesday, November 8th the world will know which future American voters have chosen.
4
Rural areas of the country are information poor areas. Even west coast cities struggle to keep up with east coast happenings. I believe this leads to the "lost in translation 20 second narratives" that then becomes the "misinformation news". Many of these areas suffer from "misinformation news", or none at all, so how can they judge this election? All people crave the truth. Mr. Trump does not represent change and his economic ideas will worsen everyone's plight, this we know from years of research into "trickle down" economics. Someone needs to report this truth. Poverty is no joke. Mrs. Clinton, and her surrogates, must put the time into learning how to tell this narrative in a better way in order to help this important part of America. Voting for the right change is will bring about the right change.
5
It's sad to see people who are both struggling and jumping at a "fix" designed to manipulate them rather inform them, all for their votes. I'm sure the Trump people in Kentucky are decent at heart, but they are supporting an indecent corrupt man. To hear a woman, of all people say she "doesn't trust" Hillary Clinton is sad and an internalized mistrust of one's own gender more than it is a fact. There's nothing, absolutely nothing aside from right wing game of say it enough and it will sick, this idea of "trust". I live in NYC, Trump is a joke here amongst real Billionaires He's a liar and corrupt. He says anything. And, these supporters talk about "trust? The facts are, globalization has changed the world. Coal is not coming back, not under a Democrat nor Republican. It's not a party fault, it's called progress and change. We each suffer some form of growing pains, adjusting, quit romanticizing what you do for work, and look toward a future. I sympathize, but to Trump supporters, you're making a huge mistake. The man doesn't care about you. He cares about himself. He will use the office to enrich himself. Why do you think he loves our greatest adversary, Putin. A thug, just like him.
11
The are "desperate?" I think not. I understand: white men like me had an inside track to good jobs that didn't require a college degree--or really much effort at all--to get. Now we have to compete on a more even footing with non-white-men, and "it's SO unfair."
Grow up. Go to school. Stop thinking the world owes you something because you "work hard and play by the rules." SO many people have done that and had it a whole lot worse than you.
Grow up. Go to school. Stop thinking the world owes you something because you "work hard and play by the rules." SO many people have done that and had it a whole lot worse than you.
12
A bracing perspective on today's political climate and part of America that is too often overlooked or downright ignored in the NY Times. As Cohen's piece makes clear, the people in Kentucky he talked to may not be right on all counts, but their grievances are to be ignored at our collective peril.
As stated on the Kentucky state seal, united we stand or divided we fall. Our divisions are growing deeper. It may be that the country after 200+ years as a union may finally splinter in to regions - which may really be what is needed anyway. To quote the Bible, if a house is divided against itself, that house can not stand.
As stated on the Kentucky state seal, united we stand or divided we fall. Our divisions are growing deeper. It may be that the country after 200+ years as a union may finally splinter in to regions - which may really be what is needed anyway. To quote the Bible, if a house is divided against itself, that house can not stand.
3
Good article as the facts are evident. Many many people I know, fear a Clinton administration made up of Hillary and Bill, will just be a return of the status quo, even though Trump is untested as a politician and administer, of a large complex system of government. The unintended consequence of so called Globalization are everywhere in the country. Obama's 8 years of the government being able to solve and mange everything didn't deliver and excluded millions mostly white working class people. Then there are those who are well off and defined by Romney as the 47% who pay the largest share of the taxes. Now we face even higher taxes under the Clintons as Hillary has promised. So a protest vote I call it is abundant for Trump.
3
It's easy to blow things up. It's much harder to build a future for yourself and others. That takes real courage.
3
People all over the country are willing to risk Trump rather than accept the predictable suffering that will come with more of the same. It isn't just coal country. Maybe if those people thought Hillary was actually going to do anything for them, it would be different. Affordable health care, education, jobs, something like that. I still prefer - not really the right word- Clinton to Trump, but at least I understand the "deplorables" have more on their minds than white supremacy and islamophobia.
3
Appalachian was never an economic powerhouse or a center of cultural productivity - there never were any 'good old days'.
What the distraught residents of Appalachian need are bus tickets. Yes, bus tickets to get the heck out of Appalachian. That is what I did at age 17 and it was the smartest thing I ever did for myself.
If prosperity does not come to you, sometimes you have to take the initiative to go to it. Self-pity is a luxury some of us cannot afford.
What the distraught residents of Appalachian need are bus tickets. Yes, bus tickets to get the heck out of Appalachian. That is what I did at age 17 and it was the smartest thing I ever did for myself.
If prosperity does not come to you, sometimes you have to take the initiative to go to it. Self-pity is a luxury some of us cannot afford.
4
If Trump supporters know he is dangerous but they are desperate for change they are more likely to get it at the local and state level rather than federal. Even then a Trump presidency could make their lives a hell hole.
4
When they say they want change, it simply means they want a Republican president. But the real change at the ground will still not be coming. So definitely Trump should not be the president to be when they really want to change at the ground.
2
They keep voting for Republicans who promise to reduce government and then complain because the government lets them down!
8
It is not possible to be that desperate when you continually vote against your own interest. With the information available to anyone with an ounce of caring it is beyond common sense why people in some of the poorest sections of the country keep voting for a system that is stacked against them. Surely, something more sinister is at work here. You simply cannot keep blaming others when it is your own fault when you vote against your own interest. Red states statistics clearly show that the right is not working out for them. The Appalachian regions of this country remain some of the poorest regions of the country yet they consistently vote for candidates that will betray them. You are your own enemy in this case.
7
It's funny that the author goes to coal country and only finds people who say they will vote for him - but are either afraid of him or do not like him.
Are you telling us that there are no potential Trump voters there who actually think that he is a good candidate ? Accurate reporting ?
Are you telling us that there are no potential Trump voters there who actually think that he is a good candidate ? Accurate reporting ?
3
You are giving these Trump supporters too much credit. They mostly figure the pain and danger of Trump will fall on someone else (much like the pollution from their coal), someone not like them, someone less deserving, someone who has had the government take care of them. And that's the path to the racism of resentment that is the predominant form of racism in America today - white people imagining they'd be better off black. That's how one gets to the ludicrous notion, expressed by one interviewed, that a black man raised by a poor single mother and his grandparents has "probably never known hardship" as a step in the reasoning to support Trump, who was born filthy rich.
10
Clinton brags that she will continue Obama's legacy of destroying the coal industry and the lives of millions of people who depend on same.
And she wonders why no one in coal country will vote for her.
And she wonders why no one in coal country will vote for her.
4
Aren't these the same folks who just voted in a Republican governor who right away took their state subsidized Obama health care off them despite warnings that was exactly what would happen? Sometimes you gotta think for yourself too and quit moaning
12
Check your facts. Shutting down state run exchange and shifting operating costs to Federal exchange is a smart budget decision. KY Citizens still have exchange subsidized insurance and Feds pay for operations of Exchange.
1
If I was living in coal country I might gamble on voting for Trump with the hope that he loses but that it gives a message to the country that you have to pay attention to people on the fringes of the economy. Perhaps it is best to think of him as a vehicle for a message.
1
Desperate, people will try anything, giving over their better judgment to hope. It is as true with politics as it is with health. We go to promises of quack remedies and quack purveyors to try to find wellness or improvement. Kentucky and the rest of this proud country has been sold out by congress which has enabled deindustrialization through favored tax deals with big businesses and banks. The technology for Clean Coal was available 40 years ago. It was never implemented because it is cheaper to pump oil or to frack gas. Return on investment is more important than a working man's job. Mitch McConnell has done nothing to protect his state's coal miners except blame a president for his own failings to employ existing technology.
Kentuckians and others naively believe that putting a Trickster in the White House will somehow improve their lot. Desperate physicians have done the medical equivalent by subjecting intractable patients to electroconvulsive therapy to attempt to cure their neurons.
Look to ourselves and use our reason to effect change. Thinking that a Charlatan Fool will change your things for the better is the realm of desperation. If you want something real bad, you will get it real bad.
Kentuckians and others naively believe that putting a Trickster in the White House will somehow improve their lot. Desperate physicians have done the medical equivalent by subjecting intractable patients to electroconvulsive therapy to attempt to cure their neurons.
Look to ourselves and use our reason to effect change. Thinking that a Charlatan Fool will change your things for the better is the realm of desperation. If you want something real bad, you will get it real bad.
6
The blacksmiths who's main source of income was shoeing horses had to find a new source of income as the country went from horse n buggy to cars. Coal miners are in the same predicament. Things change.
Adapt or perish.
Adapt or perish.
12
I wish that Cindy Hedges had explained her comment that she "just doesn't trust Hillary". Journalists need to delve into that comment more.
Trust her regarding what? How can Ms Hedges have that position about Hillary Clinton, but not about Donald Trump. His endless stream of campaign lies should shake that trust, as well as cheating contractors, business partners, etc, etc, etc.
How is it that Donald Trump gets a free pass on the trust issue?
Trust her regarding what? How can Ms Hedges have that position about Hillary Clinton, but not about Donald Trump. His endless stream of campaign lies should shake that trust, as well as cheating contractors, business partners, etc, etc, etc.
How is it that Donald Trump gets a free pass on the trust issue?
12
A great piece that really illustrates the feelings of people voting for Trump. The desperation in coal country is understandable. It really makes me think about the vast differences in the US. Clinton needs to come up with a viable plan for recapitalization for coal country. Of course, that goes for the entire Democratic Party. That would be a great way for Democrats to reach across the aisle in Congress. We must remember that the EPA interprets legislation written by Congress.
3
What about the refrain always heard for those other people
(people not them on welfare of some kind)
that they 'should pull themselves up by their bootstraps'?
The coal industry is in its death spiral as a huge polluter
This is not news.
(people not them on welfare of some kind)
that they 'should pull themselves up by their bootstraps'?
The coal industry is in its death spiral as a huge polluter
This is not news.
4
The cost of building infrastructure to build oceanic barriers to mitigate flooding along the coasts could be a boon to people who have lost work mining coal. There is a lot of work that could be done that doesn't involve coal mining.
4
Trump is "spectacular'? Well, perhaps in Paris, Kentucky he is. Fortunately the rest of the country has somewhat more interesting things to do, see, hear, and enjoy then Paris, Ky. rendering Trump somewhat less interesting. Perhaps a visit to the public library might yield the good folks of Paris something genuinely "spectacular" to do, read, and think about. The Presidency of the United States is not a spectical!
3
The coal industry is never coming back, not because of Obama or Clinton, but because coal can't compete with cleaner, cheaper natural gas. Trump isn't going to change that.
6
Fantastic column which gets to the heart of Trump's appeal and the small minded foolishness of Clinton's "Deplorables" comment.
I'm with Her. But She needs to remember that she's running to be everybody's President. Even the racists and misogynists. The inverse is also true and the racist might end up being everyone's President too.
I'm with Her. But She needs to remember that she's running to be everybody's President. Even the racists and misogynists. The inverse is also true and the racist might end up being everyone's President too.
4
Instead of feeling sorry for themselves, what have the masses of the ignorant people described here ever done to educate themselves? Even going to the public library to read books? How much time do they spend drinking, smoking, watching television and complaining instead of making efforts to improve their lot in life? What values do they pass along to their children? These are the ignorant masses who fell for all of the fascist Republicans' coded racism and lies since the era of Reagan. They voted twice for the Bush-Cheney regime and willingly went to or sent their children to that evil regime's illegal wars. They say they hate the government but are always ready for hand-outs from the government -- from their fellow taxpayers, that is, whenever a natural disaster strikes or in the firm of numerous, government-provided services. They deserve no pity whatsoever. Let them vote for the madman Trump -- and really pay the price of their ignorance and racism. They cannot stand Obama simply because he is not white -- or, more precisely, because he is black, educated, sophisticated, accomplished and aware.
9
I hope, for the sake of Ms. Hedges and others like her, that they are denied the experience of discovering just how crooked Trump's "straight talk" is. "Hypocricy," "straight talk," and "common sense" are all too contingent on closely held, frequently partisan, beliefs. It often does not help to point to the flaws in these current beliefs--but they'd better hope Secretary Clinton is elected, or we might all find out just how "dangerous" dangerous really is.
4
Union coal miners back in the late 1920's used to say "the lowest thing next to a scab is an oil burner salesman". Another energy source less than 100 years ago was cleaner and more efficient and was replacing coal.
Trump is not going to restore coal mining jobs anymore than he is going to bring manufacturing jobs back to America. Trump is a confidence artist (con man) and some workers have become his mark.
Trump is not going to restore coal mining jobs anymore than he is going to bring manufacturing jobs back to America. Trump is a confidence artist (con man) and some workers have become his mark.
4
Wonderfully insightful article, and I certainly get what the people interviewed are feeling and why. This article is about coal country and the environment but also alludes to the loss of manufacturing jobs. And it's not Obama and the Democrats who are at total fault here with environmental rules and regulations - it's capitalism at its finest. Large companies today will do what's best for their bottom lines, CEOs, and stockholders. And Donald Trump is not going to bring back coal or manufacturing jobs because they are a thing of the past and companies have moved on - that is a huge disservice that he does to those who believe in him. Where coal has closed, natural gas and fracking have taken over. And if companies can produce goods more cheaply, they'll make that change technologically or by moving out of the country. Unfortunately, there is a wide swathe of people caught up in that change - the people worked the mines and factories and who no one seems to notice until it's too late.
"...to seek a reasonable balance between the economy and the environment." Perhaps both government and big business should consider the repercussions on the lives of people before making drastic changes and edicts that will adversely affect them (and ultimately all of us). Phase in change with an eye on helping those who will be dispossessed by it.
"...to seek a reasonable balance between the economy and the environment." Perhaps both government and big business should consider the repercussions on the lives of people before making drastic changes and edicts that will adversely affect them (and ultimately all of us). Phase in change with an eye on helping those who will be dispossessed by it.
3
Interesting column. What stood out most for me was the comment about illegal being illegal. Elites just don't get the fact that regular people really care about maintaining and obeying the laws. Sure, there are lots of people who just don't like immigrants from certain countries, but many average folks really don't like the idea of others breaking the law and getting away with it. Remember when Bill Clinton nominated Zoe Baird to be attorney general, and it was revealed that she had employed an illegal? I still remember people like Jack Germond pooh-poohing the matter, saying there was no political fallout and she would be confirmed. Of course, there was a firestorm of protest over the fact that a person nominated to lead the Justice Department did not feel compelled to obey the law herself. Average folks hate that kind of hypocrisy.
The hypocrisy of the elites is not the sole, and probably not even the main cause of Trump's rise, but it's played a part. At some level the opinions of the common people in places like Kentucky have to be respected. Dismiss them, as President Obama has to some extent done, and they will turn to a Great Simplifier for answers.
The hypocrisy of the elites is not the sole, and probably not even the main cause of Trump's rise, but it's played a part. At some level the opinions of the common people in places like Kentucky have to be respected. Dismiss them, as President Obama has to some extent done, and they will turn to a Great Simplifier for answers.
5
"America is no longer white enough" [for Trump to win the election]. That's probably correct, but what if an unexpected number of people who would otherwise vote for Hillary don't bother to show up at the polls? Trump's voters are motivated; many of hers aren't. Low turnout could mean a Trump victory.
7
The desire for change comes from the same people who vote for those who have obstructed change since Obama was was elected.
Trump is just one more flavor, the next gimmick of the same old same old.
A Democratic US House, passed a public option, (The Republicans voted against it), which died in the Senate. (they elected Rand Paul and re-elected Mitch McConnell who opposed it)
A Democratic president and a Democratic governor gave them healthcare, which is popular there, so they elected a governor and re-eelected a senator who want to repeal it.
Kentucky has lost coal mining jobs since 1982.
As Erica Petersen, environmental and energy reporter for WFPL radio in Louisville, Ky., accurately said, "Coal is the victim of the market forces that these same politicians champion in healthcare and banking."
It was actually Hillary Clinton who "spoke from the hip" when she spoke of the loss of coal mining jobs and she has plans to help these people, while Trump has just lip service and pablum.
They will never see change until they stop falling for the same con jobs.
Trump is just one more flavor, the next gimmick of the same old same old.
A Democratic US House, passed a public option, (The Republicans voted against it), which died in the Senate. (they elected Rand Paul and re-elected Mitch McConnell who opposed it)
A Democratic president and a Democratic governor gave them healthcare, which is popular there, so they elected a governor and re-eelected a senator who want to repeal it.
Kentucky has lost coal mining jobs since 1982.
As Erica Petersen, environmental and energy reporter for WFPL radio in Louisville, Ky., accurately said, "Coal is the victim of the market forces that these same politicians champion in healthcare and banking."
It was actually Hillary Clinton who "spoke from the hip" when she spoke of the loss of coal mining jobs and she has plans to help these people, while Trump has just lip service and pablum.
They will never see change until they stop falling for the same con jobs.
6
I have no sympathy for Trump voters - bigoted, stupid, uneducated and willfully ignorant. The world is changing and for the better. Globalization means disruption but it also means opportunity and progress. For every drugged-out coal miner in Kentucky there are ten Chinese workers lifted out of poverty. And as opposed to the druggies and whiners described in this article, Chinese actually work instead of complaining or popping pills or voting for an idiot. The people in the article are casting about for somebody to blame for their predicament. I suggest they look in the mirror.
7
Suffering of any sort is always sad news. What these people in polluting industries fail to understand is that the only reason they ever had the good times was because they were not charged the cost of cleaning up their polluting businesses. Now all of us are being charged with that deficit spending. Those $1,500.00 a week jobs were only possible because the cost to the environment was not deducted from the company profits. This may not have been a fully conscience decision but it certainly was a fully political decision. The original settlers to these frontiers did not expect the government to support them. But years of tax subsidies and environmental regulation neglect has brought these citizens to expect a comfortable lifestyle in regions were it was always difficult to live.
5
Two things. First, he is a danger to the republic. Then, these folks surety know that coal is dead, and their lungs tell them it should be. So their support for Trump is fatalistic.
5
Nice article. When it comes right down to it, these people just want to be able to put meals on the table. No one can say these people are lazy - mining is a tough job. Coal, their primary industry, is a dirty fuel that we need to cut back on, but that just leaves these people unemployed. What we liberals have not offered these people is an alternative. Trump offers them work. It may be a lie, like most of the things Trump says, but he's their only hope. Why are we liberals not going into these places with job training programs and giving industries incentives to locate there. It should not be hard to win back these poor red states - the real GOP (not Trump) resists giving poor people anything, even when the so-called free market doesn't work. Isn't the obvious solution for helping working people to provide jobs?
4
I find it hard to feel sorry for rural kentuckians. They really do bring it on their selves. If they wanted a better life, they could have gotten it a long time ago. Rural kentuckians are too stuck on ideology to do what's in their best interest. i know you heard stories of kentuckians who use obamacare, but vote for politicians who would dismantle it. this type of stuff happens all the time in kentucky. it's mind boggling to us who live in the big cities. Mitch Mcconnell and rand pual has done nothing for kentucky, but they keep electing them. Their policies goes against the interest of most kentuckian, but they will win against any democrat you throw at them.
our previous governor expanded obamacare in the state and the uninsured went down. People were happy to get health insurance.Then they went and voted for someone who promised to end it. Why? I can not fathom. yeah, rual kentuckians want help, but not from democrats or people who look like obama.
our previous governor expanded obamacare in the state and the uninsured went down. People were happy to get health insurance.Then they went and voted for someone who promised to end it. Why? I can not fathom. yeah, rual kentuckians want help, but not from democrats or people who look like obama.
5
"Whatever happens in November, these problems will persist, and it will take major public and private investment and an unlikely rebirth of bipartisanship in Washington to make any dent in them."
That's it, pure and simple - and yet that doesn't mean anything to people who believe the fault lies only with the executive and not a intransigent congress. Hence, we need an executive who can/will fire senators, judges, generals, etc. at will - and why they believe that, I don't know. I sympathize with the people who worked in a doomed industry. I'm sorry that the demise of their industry was caused by a concern greater than any individual's standard of living. Those who believe we'll just have to adapt to the problems caused by climate change (rather than doing anything about it) don't seem willing to adapt to loss of a wasteful industry.
That's it, pure and simple - and yet that doesn't mean anything to people who believe the fault lies only with the executive and not a intransigent congress. Hence, we need an executive who can/will fire senators, judges, generals, etc. at will - and why they believe that, I don't know. I sympathize with the people who worked in a doomed industry. I'm sorry that the demise of their industry was caused by a concern greater than any individual's standard of living. Those who believe we'll just have to adapt to the problems caused by climate change (rather than doing anything about it) don't seem willing to adapt to loss of a wasteful industry.
2
Its too bad that people in difficult straights are sucked in by the Narrative built by the Donald and actually the press and media that confuse un-supported allegations and straight bald-faced lies as "shooting form the hip". they actually are, ignorant enough to believe that Trump will help them. Very sad.
3
It is their own fault, after more than 300 years of changing nothing they expect a dictator to change it for them? They are lost, left behind, frightened people and it can only be hoped they do not take the entire country down the mine shaft with them. They are people without hope because they have neither the ability or the inclination to change the conditions of their own lives. This is not and never again will the their idea of America. It is a changing nation in a chancing world and they have decided to be the losers. So let them lost and let the rest of us move on.
8
Many Appalachian voters have also not turned off by Trump's racism, nor the attempts to disenfranchise minority voters in their states through gerrymandering and voter ID laws, early voting, the list goes on.
And Let us be frank, no matter who the democratic candidate was, this part of the country was not going to vote for Today's more inclusive Democratic Party. The majority weren't going to vote for a party that knows evolution as a fact of science, and global warming as the same.
Yeah, Appalachian values are not the ones that I would vote for. Their anger simmers, but so does much of the rest of the country. Honestly some of us wonder whether the slaves of the south should have been kept in the Union but the Appalachian whites maybe should've been let go with the confederacy. When the south pays its way, becomes an outflow of federal taxation instead of a massive inflow of government subsidies and entitlements then they can complain about disenfranchisement.
And Let us be frank, no matter who the democratic candidate was, this part of the country was not going to vote for Today's more inclusive Democratic Party. The majority weren't going to vote for a party that knows evolution as a fact of science, and global warming as the same.
Yeah, Appalachian values are not the ones that I would vote for. Their anger simmers, but so does much of the rest of the country. Honestly some of us wonder whether the slaves of the south should have been kept in the Union but the Appalachian whites maybe should've been let go with the confederacy. When the south pays its way, becomes an outflow of federal taxation instead of a massive inflow of government subsidies and entitlements then they can complain about disenfranchisement.
2
The real tragedy will be realized if Trump manages to get elected and it becomes obvious that he cannot and will not deliver on any of his grandiose promises. He will abandon these desperate and frightened people who heaped adulation on him once there is nothing he needs from them. They will be betrayed once again. But he will also have lit a match and will be responsible for any conflagration that results.
6
If you're a off coal miner with four kids and no job maybe you should've considered birth control and not devoted your entire professional career to contributing to the burning of fossil fuels and destruction of the planet. I thought Republicans were big on personal responsibility? Oh wait, that only applies to other people, I forgot.
9
It's a rational response to what they hear from Clinton and Trump.
Clinton goes on about (in decreasing order of frequency):
Blacks/African Americans, Women (and their Children), Hispanics/Latinos, Gays/LGTB(QI), Muslims, the Middle Class ..... and Working People (aka Poor White Women and Men)
Trump goes on about (in decreasing order of frequency) about:
Sinking White Men and Women
Clinton goes on about (in decreasing order of frequency):
Blacks/African Americans, Women (and their Children), Hispanics/Latinos, Gays/LGTB(QI), Muslims, the Middle Class ..... and Working People (aka Poor White Women and Men)
Trump goes on about (in decreasing order of frequency) about:
Sinking White Men and Women
2
Since when did anger in itself confer credibility on a person? Pretty much everyone I know feels big changes in our politics and governance are essential; we're all frustrated with the current state of affairs. But is it too much to ask that we do a little bit of mental work to identify the actual problems and put our energies towards addressing them effectively. Making changes is much less difficult than people assert; the challenge is in making a change that will work. If I'm frustrated with my life and want to lead a different one, I don't then take out a gun and shoot myself in the foot.
6
People should not look to government for life satisfaction.
President John F. Kennedy memorably said, "Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country."
That probably means something different to many people.
To me it means in a democracy we are the government.
Every single thing we do in our personal life creates the community and country we live in.
We must take ownership for our personal lives, our choices in a free society, and shape the community and country we want to live in.
Republican eBay CEO Meg Whitman remarked that the history of democracies has been short-lived because inevitably people face obstacles, and at those pivotal times, some look to a strong man who says he has all the answers all evidence to the contrary.
Professor Albert Einstein also said God does not play dice with the universe.
So I suspect God didn't anoint a man like Donald Trump to lead the United Staes of America either.
Trump's sales pitch is dice, whether in casinos, unlicensed for-profit schools encouraging maximum indebtedness, leveraged real estate speculation or serially bankrupting companies while withdrawing cash.
Change is good only if it is constructive.
It is equally probable for change to be for the worse, and who wants that?
Americans have succeeded through personal strength and character, not through dictators like Putin or Kim Jong-un that enslave their people and make them live in fear.
Hillary Clinton is somebody spectacular.
President John F. Kennedy memorably said, "Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country."
That probably means something different to many people.
To me it means in a democracy we are the government.
Every single thing we do in our personal life creates the community and country we live in.
We must take ownership for our personal lives, our choices in a free society, and shape the community and country we want to live in.
Republican eBay CEO Meg Whitman remarked that the history of democracies has been short-lived because inevitably people face obstacles, and at those pivotal times, some look to a strong man who says he has all the answers all evidence to the contrary.
Professor Albert Einstein also said God does not play dice with the universe.
So I suspect God didn't anoint a man like Donald Trump to lead the United Staes of America either.
Trump's sales pitch is dice, whether in casinos, unlicensed for-profit schools encouraging maximum indebtedness, leveraged real estate speculation or serially bankrupting companies while withdrawing cash.
Change is good only if it is constructive.
It is equally probable for change to be for the worse, and who wants that?
Americans have succeeded through personal strength and character, not through dictators like Putin or Kim Jong-un that enslave their people and make them live in fear.
Hillary Clinton is somebody spectacular.
7
I feel the pain of these folks however, it sounds like they need retrained not empty promises. The fact that you know he is dangerous but you are still willing to vote tells me that you have not taken into consideration anyone other than yourself. Like the folks in the story Trump is self serving and will do nothing but deepen the plight of these people with his inability to deliver on many of his far fetched policy changes. The real problem is that these folks got comfortable and they believed that they did not need to continue to evolve as the world did. Sadly, the earth continued to rotate even when you are standing still. Now you can chose to continue to stand still and condemn the next generation to
5
I can tell you from out here in the cheap seats that it is not just Middle Aged White Males without a College Degree that support him and hold nothing but contempt for Hillary. That may be the talking point getting pushed by David Brock and Robbie Mook, but it simply is not true.
Long before the first vote was cast in Iowa, the polls were showing a deep desire for change among Republicans, Independents and Democrats. Despite this, we end up with 2 New York resident 1% ers that are far more alike off the campaign trail than either campaign would like to admit. What a choice.
Long before the first vote was cast in Iowa, the polls were showing a deep desire for change among Republicans, Independents and Democrats. Despite this, we end up with 2 New York resident 1% ers that are far more alike off the campaign trail than either campaign would like to admit. What a choice.
7
My grandmother was born in Kentucky and grew up in southern Indiana. When there were no opportunities for her, she left and started a new life on the West Coast. If the people in the article were willing to start over, they could make a better life for themselves and their families. Coal is dead.
8
Creative destruction? Coal is finished, and natural gas is going to be the fuel from now on....OK, but what do you do about the people who own homes and do not want to move from all they have ever known? Any talk about the joys of creative destruction must take into account the people who cannot adjust (for various reasons) to a lack of jobs.
2
That Appalachia needs to diversify its economy and is economically impoverished is not news (see "Night Comes to the Cumberlands: A Biography of a Depressed Area," 1962). This region has tried to diversify. To wit, Travelocity opened - and closed a few short years later - a call center in Clintwood, VA, victim to offshoring. Other Appalachian call centers were likewise unsuccessful. Clintwood is the county seat of Dickenson County, which has a population of less than 16,000 and its citizens earn less than half the average Virginian. Just a few days ago, Bill Clinton condescendingly referred to Appalachians as "the coal people." Hillary had once stated he would put her husband in charge of a Marshall-style plan to rescue the region ("Can Clinton Win Back Appalachia?," The Atlantic, 5/3/2016). How can the so-called "coal people" trust the Clintons with this type of rhetoric? Mrs. Clinton's $40 billion plan is short on specifics, especially funding. However, Mr. Trump has not even offered a plan of any kind.
10
These folks say they want change. So many Trump supporters profiled in varied media in different regions keep using the word. When I read their stories it is plain . . . They do not want change, they want to go back in time.
Globalization, global warming, nuclear threats, terrrorism, progressive definitions of marriage and healthcare reform. Different colored people of numerous religions moving in. Trump supporters are scared witless to accept change or create change . . . true social and supportive change for themselves.
They want to go back in time so badly. Is this ignorance, selfishness, entitlement? I don't care.
I don't want to go back. Those of us who do not must vote in November.
Globalization, global warming, nuclear threats, terrrorism, progressive definitions of marriage and healthcare reform. Different colored people of numerous religions moving in. Trump supporters are scared witless to accept change or create change . . . true social and supportive change for themselves.
They want to go back in time so badly. Is this ignorance, selfishness, entitlement? I don't care.
I don't want to go back. Those of us who do not must vote in November.
16
Change begins at home. No one, Trump, Sanders, whoever can resurrect the past.
6
Do these people realize that dangerous Donald outsources all his products for years now..Don't be taken in by this charleton. He speaks with a forked tongue. Find as much out about each candidate from reliable sources and not the partisan media.
4
Sadly, people who are really suffering are falling for Trump's con. He has never done anything in his life to help anyone other than himself. He is not interested in the problems of struggling people and will do nothing to improve their situations if elected.
5
This is a good article and highlights problems that echo in many places in America. I take issue with the the the author's use of "liberal" here:
"and he [Trump] can [win] in part because of the liberal intellectual arrogance that dismisses the economic, social and cultural problems his rise has underscored."
It may be intellectual arrogance that accounts for the rise of Trump, but not liberal intellectual arrogance. The entire Republican establishment was shocked by Trump's rise because they, too, were too arrogant to see how their agenda for the last 20+ years did nothing for these Americans.
The use of "liberal" here to lay this at the feet of just the Democrats seems a partisan play and taints this otherwise informative and in-depth look at how Washington policies play out in the lives of Americans.
"and he [Trump] can [win] in part because of the liberal intellectual arrogance that dismisses the economic, social and cultural problems his rise has underscored."
It may be intellectual arrogance that accounts for the rise of Trump, but not liberal intellectual arrogance. The entire Republican establishment was shocked by Trump's rise because they, too, were too arrogant to see how their agenda for the last 20+ years did nothing for these Americans.
The use of "liberal" here to lay this at the feet of just the Democrats seems a partisan play and taints this otherwise informative and in-depth look at how Washington policies play out in the lives of Americans.
9
Three things:
• Great article except for the NYT trying to lump all of Kentucky into one box. There are at least four (maybe as many as seven) Kentucky(s). Appalachia, The Golden Triangle (Louisville, Lexington, Frankfort), Northern Kentucky near Cincinnati, and the people who live west (and south to the Tenn. line) of all of the rest. Very different places and your article missed about 80 percent of them.
• Paris, KY is in central KY, not really Appalachia or ever considered so. Not many coal fields there. Lots and lots of horses, though.
• Most of Kentucky is located in non-coal field counties who haven't depended on coal for generations if ever at all. Western Kentucky is strong for Trump (unemployment is even lower there and it used to be a Democratic stronghold) and this article has no answer for that.
• Still, at least somebody had the sense to point your writer toward Al Cross.
Get a Kentucky-based writer and not one of your better foreign correspondents and try again. I mean I know people think Kentucky is a foreign place, but come on ...
• Great article except for the NYT trying to lump all of Kentucky into one box. There are at least four (maybe as many as seven) Kentucky(s). Appalachia, The Golden Triangle (Louisville, Lexington, Frankfort), Northern Kentucky near Cincinnati, and the people who live west (and south to the Tenn. line) of all of the rest. Very different places and your article missed about 80 percent of them.
• Paris, KY is in central KY, not really Appalachia or ever considered so. Not many coal fields there. Lots and lots of horses, though.
• Most of Kentucky is located in non-coal field counties who haven't depended on coal for generations if ever at all. Western Kentucky is strong for Trump (unemployment is even lower there and it used to be a Democratic stronghold) and this article has no answer for that.
• Still, at least somebody had the sense to point your writer toward Al Cross.
Get a Kentucky-based writer and not one of your better foreign correspondents and try again. I mean I know people think Kentucky is a foreign place, but come on ...
9
If Trump is elected, his Kentucky supporters will get the President they deserve.
5
If the unthinkable happens and Donald Trump is elected president, I hope the reporters, columnists, management, and owners of the NYTimes will take a good, hard look at themselves. You unthinkingly and arrogantly threw Hillary Clinton at us. You ignored and belittled Bernie Sanders. Now your chosen one is on the verge of losing the election to a "media-savvy con artist from Queens." Even today the Times perpetuates the lie that Trump is the only candidate who spoke to the disenfranchised of Appalachia. Bernie won West Virginia and very nearly won Kentucky. He spoke out against the trade deals that destroyed the lives of so many white, working-class people in this country. He has spent his whole life working for this constituency that the Clintons sold down the river. HRC, ever tone-deaf, continues to spend each day at fundraisers with multi-millionaires. She has learned absolutely nothing from this campaign. She has absolutely no idea why the vast majority of Americans detest her. I hope that the Times finally understands why. I hope the paper of record will not make the same horrendous mistakes in the future. By endorsing this corporate shill you have endangered this country and the planet. Almost nobody I know is voting FOR Hillary Clinton; we are only voting AGAINST the unspeakable alternative.
9
September 10, 2016
Who is 'We." - Trump supporters seeking a Trump idol mistakenly ignore the four / five estates of ruling - a neurotic disregard for voting responsibility for integrating what the presidential candidate brings to his / her party and in transactions for state and local - to each family politics that is more than checking vote box but giving stamina and support to ideals and policies that are achievable and for the health and grace of all.......
Then as such as we give thoughts to NY Times and the articles of superior learning we will enjoy not just the presidential vision but the character of who we are as everyone is equal in our greater laws of statute and functionalities towards a healthy participatory America life for all and timeless.....
Who is 'We." - Trump supporters seeking a Trump idol mistakenly ignore the four / five estates of ruling - a neurotic disregard for voting responsibility for integrating what the presidential candidate brings to his / her party and in transactions for state and local - to each family politics that is more than checking vote box but giving stamina and support to ideals and policies that are achievable and for the health and grace of all.......
Then as such as we give thoughts to NY Times and the articles of superior learning we will enjoy not just the presidential vision but the character of who we are as everyone is equal in our greater laws of statute and functionalities towards a healthy participatory America life for all and timeless.....
3
Years ago, being a stone mason was supposed to be engaged in a prime profession. If some con man claims he can bring those days back, should we believe him?!
The right wing talk show hosts have been exercising their 1st amendment right with conspiracy theories after conspiracy theories about the Clintons for decades. At the same time, Trump's offenses such as Trump University, 4 backruptcies without losing his private jet, numerous consent decrees from discriminatory practices, ... etc. receive hardly any public scrutiny.
We also cannot blame Obama for not coming through with his promises. As the head of the executive branch, he needed both chambers of Congress to enact change. This was only possible at the very beginning of his first term. We should really be blaming ourselves for voting in obstructionist law makers for the lack of change.
The right wing talk show hosts have been exercising their 1st amendment right with conspiracy theories after conspiracy theories about the Clintons for decades. At the same time, Trump's offenses such as Trump University, 4 backruptcies without losing his private jet, numerous consent decrees from discriminatory practices, ... etc. receive hardly any public scrutiny.
We also cannot blame Obama for not coming through with his promises. As the head of the executive branch, he needed both chambers of Congress to enact change. This was only possible at the very beginning of his first term. We should really be blaming ourselves for voting in obstructionist law makers for the lack of change.
13
It is impossible to convince people of the wrongness of their position when their livelihood depends on their not seeing it. These people are clinging to coal and blaming the President for its fall from grace, never mind that it is a dirty fuel and that the industries that used it resisted scrubbers in their chimneys for years. Now, as climate change becomes ever more a reality, they seek a savior. They realize 'the Donald" is a flawed candidate with dangerous ideas but they proclaim confidence that others in government will be able to control his worst impulses, despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary. Even as a candidate dependent on the good will of the party for a campaign organization, "the Donald" refuses to moderate his more extreme ideas, insisting he will build a wall and Mexico will pay for it or that he alone can reduce an already falling crime rate. He scorns the party leadership and has already gone through 3 campaign chairpeople. Who do these people think will curb the bully? Prebus, Ryan and McConnell have failed to do so- who is the deus ex machine they expect to save them? Coal isn't coming back and wishing won't make it so and neither will "the Donald."
7
Why harbor any sympathy for ex-coal miners who now plan to vote for Trump, a hypocritical candidate who promises to bring back the coal mining industry while he manufactures neckties in China? When unemployed workers place their faith in a deceptive candidate who can never realize his empty promise of future employment in an industry that causes massive pollution throughout the US and worldwide, that is a delusion for which there is no remedy.
9
Thank you. Finally, an article with Trump in the headline that's actually worth reading, not just another moan over how awful he is. (He is awful, but the constant reiterations are boring, useless, and self-indulgent.)
7
The many accusations or implications of racism against Obama by coal country folks are a crock! They simply justify a contemptuous attitude by liberals toward the working-class, which can be summed up as follows:
"We bear no reponsibility for their plight; they did this to themselves. And now they blame Obama, which shows just how racist they are – as we've always known."
I challenge any reader – as well as the callow moderators who aid and abet this calumny – to name an American president who wasn't blamed for economic hard times.
"We bear no reponsibility for their plight; they did this to themselves. And now they blame Obama, which shows just how racist they are – as we've always known."
I challenge any reader – as well as the callow moderators who aid and abet this calumny – to name an American president who wasn't blamed for economic hard times.
11
Do they know that Trump doesn't hire many Americans? His workforce is in China and Bangladesh? For his clubs and resorts here there are guest visa workers by the hundreds - they can't leave if pay or conditions are worse than promised, because their visas are tied to his company.
Do they know that, push come to shove, Donald took the money and ran while people like them didn't get paid for work or supplies?
That his party have voted no for programs that would retrain them for the better jobs that will replace coal? Do they know Donald is happy not to pay federal income tax and let the military, security, infrastructure, all the expense of a civil society fall on their shoulders? Not his. Not the 1%. While Hillary has paid at the highest rate? If they vote for Donald, they deserve what they get.
Do they know that, push come to shove, Donald took the money and ran while people like them didn't get paid for work or supplies?
That his party have voted no for programs that would retrain them for the better jobs that will replace coal? Do they know Donald is happy not to pay federal income tax and let the military, security, infrastructure, all the expense of a civil society fall on their shoulders? Not his. Not the 1%. While Hillary has paid at the highest rate? If they vote for Donald, they deserve what they get.
55
I didn't know that! How many did he fire? He corrects his mistakes all the time by firing people he hires -- this is a sign to all of us. Getting it right the first time is not his mode of operande.
The Mexico visit was a bust; so he detoured to Phoenix -- believe me!
The Mexico visit was a bust; so he detoured to Phoenix -- believe me!
1
I think you missed the point of the article.
There is a wide difference between being 'a spectacle' and being 'spectacular.'
43
People working in coal today have always been fully aware the very nature of the job has been directly linked to the fact that coal extraction and consumption wouldn't last forever. They've also known about the terribly harmful effects, both to themselves and the environment, caused by coal (and at what cost to the futures of their own children and grandchildren?).
At $70K a year, making a responsible plan for their own sustainable future could've easily included technical training or even a college degree that would've enabled them to transition out of coal mining and into other jobs or careers, thus preventing the hardship and despair that plagues them right now.
No amount of blaming our current President or rose-colored support for a candidate who offers no substance to support any of his proposed economic solutions will ever ease the suffering caused be the absence of personal responsibility, the politically incorrect PR of the 21st century.
At $70K a year, making a responsible plan for their own sustainable future could've easily included technical training or even a college degree that would've enabled them to transition out of coal mining and into other jobs or careers, thus preventing the hardship and despair that plagues them right now.
No amount of blaming our current President or rose-colored support for a candidate who offers no substance to support any of his proposed economic solutions will ever ease the suffering caused be the absence of personal responsibility, the politically incorrect PR of the 21st century.
60
You, of course, put in the same position, would have handled matters completely differently.
3
Setting aside who you obviously prefer for President I wonder if your high and mighty conclusion that these people "could have easily" seen the end of coal and figured out another plan extends to others who can't make ends meet and support Hillary. I doubt it.
5
Oh yeah. It's all the fault of the working men and women.
2
I am from Kentucky but have lived in NYC since the 1990s, so I think I have some perspective. Folks in Eastern Kentucky (and West Virginia, Eastern Tennessee, part of Pennsylvania etc) are not suffering because of anything Democrats or Republicans did, at least not with intention. They are suffering because of capitalism, but it's capitalism of the best kind. That is, our economy simply does not need tens or even hundreds of thousands of folks to dig dirty black stuff out of the ground anymore. We will never go back to that kind of economy, regardless of who wins in November of whenever, just as General Motor will never needs to employ 200,000 people again. Eastern Kentucky is a vibrantly beautiful land with a rich culture and heritage, dating from the first Scots-Irish settlers who lived there after the Plantation of Ulster in the 1600s and 1700s. Much of our pop music has its origin in that area (bluegrass, country, rockabilly and gospel). What really upsets them is the idea that the rest of the USA looks down on them and considers them ignorant hillbillies, although Washington has never hesitated to send them to die in their thousands in such places as Gettysburg, Iwo Jima or Khe Sanh. This condescension rankles them just as much as Mexicans or African-Americans hate being called lazy welfare cheats, so let's use some compassion and try to find some comprehensive answers to their problems instead of relying on stereotypes and offering them nothing but more food stamps.
141
It is not capitalism of the best kind when it consigns "tens or even hundreds of thousands of folks" to the scrap heap. Other countries have figured this out. Even the UK, in the middle of WWII, under a Tory prime minister, saw the necessity of caring for people rather than decommissioning them like robots. It's called a mixed economy with an adequate social safety net.
2
I am from this part of the country and there is a myth about how poor Appalachia is. I dont see it. I see very prosperous farmers in this article. The South elects Republican governors and legislatures based on their faith instead of brains and blames everything on the federal government when things dont go well. The Republican governors spend tens of millions on law firms to outlaw abortion, disenfranchise voters, outlaw Medicaid, build stadiums for billionaire team owners and, in Kentucky, to build a Noah's ark complex! Those tens of millions of taxpayer funds should be used for the states' economies. Yet, these people who complain never look at who they are putting in theit legislatures,; its easier to blame the federal government.
4
Well said.
1
What I don't understand about the people who are crying the blues over stagnant wages, not getting raises, job loss, etc. is this is the same crowd that hates government, wants all agencies dismantled and wants the private companies to run the country.
If you lost your job or haven't gotten the raise you think you deserve, then go to your employer and cry the blues. Government according to you, is the problem, but when you are down and out, you want to blame the government, just like the Republican governors who tell us constantly that the federal government is corrupt and should be shut down, blah blah blah, but when there is a natural disaster, they sure have their hands out.
If you lost your job or haven't gotten the raise you think you deserve, then go to your employer and cry the blues. Government according to you, is the problem, but when you are down and out, you want to blame the government, just like the Republican governors who tell us constantly that the federal government is corrupt and should be shut down, blah blah blah, but when there is a natural disaster, they sure have their hands out.
96
You have not listened. That's the problem. The "liberals' just shut their ears and refuse to listen to what the people are saying, what their problems are. Well it's easier that way. You can just blame them!
1
Brilliant article! The deep dive you do at every spot in the world. On this one, I would just refer your readers to the now defunct TV series "Justified" based on Elmore Leonard stories. Yes, collapse of coal has been coming for a long time. But there is always the Hill Billy aspect of this Appalachian story: not just stone-cold ignorance but the pride in that ignorance. These poor white trash vote every time against their own interests.
29
Sentiments such as yours are what will get Trump elected. Urban liberals (such as myself) need to understand that folks such as these described here know exactly what they are doing and why. So you disagree. So do i Calling them "poor white trash" just gets Trump more votes.
1
Your arrogance in calling these people who are willing to work hard for a decent living is astounding. The problem is that for too long communities like theirs have relied on only one source of income: coal, and now coal is becoming obsolete. Where I come from, when the coal mines closed in the 1960s, and the textile industry moved to low-wage countries soon threafter, there were plans in place to replace sources of income for the locals: tourism, new large educational and medical institutions, moving large governmental administrative offices there, modernizing infrastructure, creating opportunities for start-ups. That of course, requires investment, taxpayer money and political will to make it happen. It can happen in the USA.
2
It's interesting that the poor suffering whites in these rural parts are the true image of the unproductive "taker" welfare African-Americans that the Trump and the Republican Party love to paint. It's nonsense of course either way, but when you think about it, really, the poor whites in this story fit that "worthless" GOP driven image much better than Black Americans.
2
Some 90% of Americans population are descendants of people who migrated from very far away, to a distant country in order to find work. Aside from obtaining some form of political freedom.
And those migrants and their children largely became farmers, but sooner or later close to all of their descendants took up another profession. Another large chunk of those migrants and their children became factory workers or artisans. But sooner or later most of their ancestors took up another profession.
When it comes to myself, I have had at least three jobs that do not exist anymore, because they have been replaced by machines and computers. But I move on and it is my college education that has mostly enabled me to do so.
A lot of things can be done for the people living in communities suffering from lay-offs. Given the change, the next federal budget could finance investment in training and education, as well as support the infrastructure for investments in new industries and enhance tourism.
But coal is simply not coming back. It is just that simple. Trump with his supposed higher tariffs, lower taxes for the wealthy and dismantled environmental laws, will not change the facts on the ground.
And those migrants and their children largely became farmers, but sooner or later close to all of their descendants took up another profession. Another large chunk of those migrants and their children became factory workers or artisans. But sooner or later most of their ancestors took up another profession.
When it comes to myself, I have had at least three jobs that do not exist anymore, because they have been replaced by machines and computers. But I move on and it is my college education that has mostly enabled me to do so.
A lot of things can be done for the people living in communities suffering from lay-offs. Given the change, the next federal budget could finance investment in training and education, as well as support the infrastructure for investments in new industries and enhance tourism.
But coal is simply not coming back. It is just that simple. Trump with his supposed higher tariffs, lower taxes for the wealthy and dismantled environmental laws, will not change the facts on the ground.
39
You live in Scandinavia, whise countries realized long ago that their most precious natural resource is their people. So education has been a top priority, making your economies dynamic and your people flexible. You invest in the common good, keep everyone employed at something, and are not, as many Americans believe,"welfare states." Investment in education is paramount for countries that want to excel and innovate. Productivity in Scandinavia is the highest in the world, and the people are happier, too. American values don't support that kind of society. Our economy was built on the backs of slaves and the poor, and that tradition is baked into the way we do everything. We have a myth of rugged individualism, where each man succeeds solely on his own, with no help from anyone. It's a dangerous national lie that keeps us from creating a society and economy which can support everyone, one that confers dignity on each person. We exploit others to make money. It's how we roll. No wonder Trump is popular in these places where people have such narrow views about hiw the world works. He's the epitome of the American Dream for many people who would readily pour all their treasure into Trump's crap-shoot version of America. They've been gambling their entire lives, betting the coal jobs would not run out before they retired. It was a bad bet and so is Trump.
1
Too many Americans are too stupid to know how con-artists get enabled in the first place.
28
The republican propaganda machine is working overtime to demonize Mrs. Clinton. They are excellent at deceiving the ignorant, giving them justification for voting for the despicable Trump.
27
The Democratic propaganda machine is working overtime to demonize Mr. Trump. They are excellent at deceiving the gullible, giving them justification for voting for the mendacious Clinton.
2
I too have a soft spot for the south. I lived there for five years. And I too see myself as self-reliant. I voted Republican back in the Reagan days.
Yet, it strikes me that the voters who expressed opinions for this piece reveal the same behavior as Trump himself; namely, to do whatever it is not to appear to lose and that if trailing in the contest, it can only be someone else’s fault.
And so, if North Korea achieves what the analysts are saying, and has a nuclear missile capable of reaching the US on the pad before a “President” Trump leaves office, there is a greater than nil chance that in some annoying, ego-threatening exchange of words that Kim Jong II and Donald Trump may, in that foggy echo chamber of ego-driven impulse, realize that in order not to lose you have to strike first.
Yet, it strikes me that the voters who expressed opinions for this piece reveal the same behavior as Trump himself; namely, to do whatever it is not to appear to lose and that if trailing in the contest, it can only be someone else’s fault.
And so, if North Korea achieves what the analysts are saying, and has a nuclear missile capable of reaching the US on the pad before a “President” Trump leaves office, there is a greater than nil chance that in some annoying, ego-threatening exchange of words that Kim Jong II and Donald Trump may, in that foggy echo chamber of ego-driven impulse, realize that in order not to lose you have to strike first.
16
I don't know if Trump thinks he can void federal laws and international treaties by creating an artificial demand for coal.
I'm pretty sure the folks who live in towns built by coal mining companies are a lot smarter than that. They are not stupid, but have lived in the mountains for generations. They can tell you about mining wages that sound good until they're drained by the physical injuries coal miners get as part of their job. They can tell you about black lung disease. They can tell you about living in a house rented from the mining company, something that has to be experienced because you'd think I was lying about what they're like.
I won't try to explain a house except to say I was impressed that none of the houses burned down while I was there. The one I stayed in had a basic lean-to bathroom. The tenants had added the bathroom. While the houses were only 10-12 feet apart side to side and back to back, most still had an outhouse in the backyard. There was no way to tell for sure if an outhouse was still used. The kitchen/dining area had an oven & range, a water heater, a kitchen sink with hot & cold running water, and room for a tub. As far as I could tell, the kitchen was heated by the water heater. I didn't want to know if the house had "town" water or well water.
These folks need jobs, but not in coal mines. Coal is done. Bring our industry back from all over the world. Pay these folks a living wage in a safe industry.
I'm pretty sure the folks who live in towns built by coal mining companies are a lot smarter than that. They are not stupid, but have lived in the mountains for generations. They can tell you about mining wages that sound good until they're drained by the physical injuries coal miners get as part of their job. They can tell you about black lung disease. They can tell you about living in a house rented from the mining company, something that has to be experienced because you'd think I was lying about what they're like.
I won't try to explain a house except to say I was impressed that none of the houses burned down while I was there. The one I stayed in had a basic lean-to bathroom. The tenants had added the bathroom. While the houses were only 10-12 feet apart side to side and back to back, most still had an outhouse in the backyard. There was no way to tell for sure if an outhouse was still used. The kitchen/dining area had an oven & range, a water heater, a kitchen sink with hot & cold running water, and room for a tub. As far as I could tell, the kitchen was heated by the water heater. I didn't want to know if the house had "town" water or well water.
These folks need jobs, but not in coal mines. Coal is done. Bring our industry back from all over the world. Pay these folks a living wage in a safe industry.
25
I understand that reporters are looking for local insights into the November elections, but why do Kentuckians let McConnell get away with his yuge incompetence as senate majority leader from Kentucky? He's the one who wants to keep coal belching and wretching into their water supplies and destroying the environment. There's more than income inequity going on in our country and much of it is with the press. I have even begun to question what the NYTimes is doing in its unhealthy coverage of Mrs. Clinton.
33
Mr. Cohen, as usual gets things half right. Yes, coal country has suffered a devastating loss. But that is not because Democrats have forgotten or don't care about them. It's because our democracy has been hijacked by (yes, Republican) plutocrats, an extremist right-wing Supreme Court that legislates from the bench, and by Republican gerrymandering so the extreme reactionaries of the Tea Party cannot be dislodged and can obstruct any legislation. The safety net that would ease the pain in Kentucky has been dismantled by Republicans, leaving the miners to rot, while blocking any attempt to help them. How ironic that they blame President Obama, who has done everything he could for them. It's not globalization, Mr. Obama or Democrats that are to blame; it's robber barons and the Republicans they have bought and paid for. The question is, why can't the left effectively capitalize on this disaffection and rage, and stir hope and militancy in the disenfranchised? Coal is dead for good. Do the people of Paris, Kentucky really think that any Republican would ever lift a finger (or relinquish $1) to help them?
34
apparently the Kentucky coal mining population wants to take the whole country down with them to keep the few of the disappearing jobs. that's patriotism, huh?
32
The Kentucky coal miners are just part of the hollowing out of American jobs. They aren't the only ones. This nation has been devastated by "free trade" agreements.
Kind of like the way their legislators behave in Cingress, huh? Do nothing and blame everything else for it?
Not that simple. Most of the job losses in manufacturing are due to automation and robotics. It just doesn't take as many people to dig as much coal (and now less coal, because we don't use it that much anymore since natural gas has replaced it) or to make as many cars as it used to. A factory making cars that required 10,000 workers 20 years ago might need only 2500 now. There are efficiencies in all areas of manufacturing and business ... brought about by computers that can do the mental work of calculations and what-if scenarios that hundreds of people used to do. We just don't make things the same way we used to make them, and the things we consume are manufactured in pieces and in places all over the globe. We don't live in the 19th century anymore.
So Kentucky , the 5th to 8th most federally funded state in the union versus the Federal income tax paid in, is self reliant , strong , NASCAR crazy, etc , ??
It is time to be brave & migrate from flyover country (states) & start over somewhere else where there are job opportunities. ie become taxpayers. I am not sure I could after a lifetime of believing I am right & others are wrong but coal & potato head Mitch McConnell are on their way out , for good reason.
It is time to be brave & migrate from flyover country (states) & start over somewhere else where there are job opportunities. ie become taxpayers. I am not sure I could after a lifetime of believing I am right & others are wrong but coal & potato head Mitch McConnell are on their way out , for good reason.
26
These folks, coal miners and support personnel, should be the people who help rebuild the infrastructure of the country. These aren't stupid people. We all adapt to our circumstances, if those circumstances haven't already dragged us under. If shipbuilders can drive a rivet into the hull of a ship under construction, and there are no ships being built, they can also drive a rivet into a bridge that needs repair. Congress has not allowed for projects that would employ people with the skills they have. Congress points fingers and gets nothing done. Roosevelt got us out of the Great Depression, which we are nowhere near. We could certainly use some of his strategies to get the country moving again, and I don't want to hear that a war got us going. People were starting to be reemployed years before we got involved in the war.
20
The anger is palpable. These people are not as Ms. Clinton asserted "deplorable". But to vote Republican will not solve their problems, to vote Democratic might, but to truly solve their problems Congress has to listen and Congress has been sold to those interests that oppose the public interest.
38
Worth reposting from Banty AcidJazz:
"These are my people. I'm pretty angry at my people right now.
For years - from during the riots in the cities in the 1960's to today, I heard the bootstrap talk. You know - where people should pull themselves up by their bootstraps, do what it takes, and make something of themselves. "Get a job", "move out of the ghetto", "lay off the heroin", "go serve our country there are benefits too".
Now they're looking to see who to blame (Obama! the EPA!), and opiate addiction is a sign of national collapse instead of personal and community moral failing. And it's a different version of burn-baby-burn that they're willing to do.
...in days gone past a decent life's path had always been there for the walking into. Now, it would take some old fashioned gumption to address one's predicament.
"What we've been through" is disappointed entitlement.
Millions of poor sharecroppers and their families boarded trains North, a century ago. People displaced by the dust bowl found other climes, or better agricultural methods. Buggy whip workers and tobacco farmers shifted to other ways to earn a living.
Call me unsympathetic, but I've been listening to these folks for decades. Herman Cain and Allen West are about the *first* Black prominent people other than entertainers and athletes they've spoken well of. It's time for some bootstrapping. Starting with - getting some of that high-falutin' education. And maybe packing up those pickup trucks."
"These are my people. I'm pretty angry at my people right now.
For years - from during the riots in the cities in the 1960's to today, I heard the bootstrap talk. You know - where people should pull themselves up by their bootstraps, do what it takes, and make something of themselves. "Get a job", "move out of the ghetto", "lay off the heroin", "go serve our country there are benefits too".
Now they're looking to see who to blame (Obama! the EPA!), and opiate addiction is a sign of national collapse instead of personal and community moral failing. And it's a different version of burn-baby-burn that they're willing to do.
...in days gone past a decent life's path had always been there for the walking into. Now, it would take some old fashioned gumption to address one's predicament.
"What we've been through" is disappointed entitlement.
Millions of poor sharecroppers and their families boarded trains North, a century ago. People displaced by the dust bowl found other climes, or better agricultural methods. Buggy whip workers and tobacco farmers shifted to other ways to earn a living.
Call me unsympathetic, but I've been listening to these folks for decades. Herman Cain and Allen West are about the *first* Black prominent people other than entertainers and athletes they've spoken well of. It's time for some bootstrapping. Starting with - getting some of that high-falutin' education. And maybe packing up those pickup trucks."
71
Amen
1
Cohen article: very interesting piece. I would not be the least bit surprised if the Trumpster wins. I'll put a bag over my head a la the Unknown Comic, or a clothes pin over my nose, though, and vote for Crooked Hillary.
8
Now we're paying the price for ignoring the effects of technological innovation and environmental protection regulations on people who - for instance - had for generations made their meager living by mining the coal that was slowly taking its toll on their health. These forgotten people of whom Roger Cohen writes - remind me of the Native Americans, and the periodic waves of suicide among them. For lack of hope, suicide - either immediate or slow - becomes the more desirable alternative. As Pope Francis wrote in his recent encyclical: "To stop investing in people, in order to gain greater short-term financial gain, is bad business for society."
28
We became the most attractive home in the world for every immigrant wanting to improve their lives for two centuries. How?
By using the energy resources we had. Coal will continue to be a major source of energy for mankind for centuries more. We can't even say for sure that atmospheric carbon has any relation to the world's warming and cooling cycles that have gone on for millions of years.
Even if you were born in the dark,
it really wasn't supposed to have been last night.
By using the energy resources we had. Coal will continue to be a major source of energy for mankind for centuries more. We can't even say for sure that atmospheric carbon has any relation to the world's warming and cooling cycles that have gone on for millions of years.
Even if you were born in the dark,
it really wasn't supposed to have been last night.
2
Have you any knowledge of black lung disease, Sir? Or would you suggest that that, too, is something "we can't even say for sure" has any relation to coal?
This article made me want to bang my head against my desk in frustration. Am I living in an alternate realty? Poor, white, southerners continue to vote against their own self-interests, in this case, to the point where they are supporting the candidate who they think will get them killed. Donald Trump could not share less in common with these people, except for their shared resentment of outsiders. They swallow his lies wholesale in the hopes that their doomed industry, which is a blight upon the environment, can sputter on unhampered by regulations. Stories like this are sobering.
160
Julia,
the advantage that these American have over yourself is that they never go to the biased media to learn what they are supposed to think. Living in the real world, they have come to respect people who tell the truth, don't carelessly get others killed )Iran, Benghazi) and have actually managed to employ people successfully.
The tragedy of this article is the thought that gullible innocents who honestly think Hillary is going to do something for others are willing to bet OUR country on it.
Our nation is in serious trouble overseas and at home, and Hillary is directly involved in the damage. What magic wand are you waving to make Hillary turn into an honest person after 23 years of clearly criminal behavior?
the advantage that these American have over yourself is that they never go to the biased media to learn what they are supposed to think. Living in the real world, they have come to respect people who tell the truth, don't carelessly get others killed )Iran, Benghazi) and have actually managed to employ people successfully.
The tragedy of this article is the thought that gullible innocents who honestly think Hillary is going to do something for others are willing to bet OUR country on it.
Our nation is in serious trouble overseas and at home, and Hillary is directly involved in the damage. What magic wand are you waving to make Hillary turn into an honest person after 23 years of clearly criminal behavior?
7
I agree with everything in your post and am shocked that a person like Trump can come so close to the presidency of a nation as democratically evolved as the US. Would've used the same words to express my opinion.
But it would appear that these very words are indicative of the
'liberal intellectual arrogance that dismisses the economic, social and cultural problems his rise has underscored.'
Sure, coal is bad but the coal-miners who made a hard day's living from it are not.
Unless the better-off Americans do not empathize with the real hardships of the citizens of Paris and Hazard...Donald Trump is inevitable.
But it would appear that these very words are indicative of the
'liberal intellectual arrogance that dismisses the economic, social and cultural problems his rise has underscored.'
Sure, coal is bad but the coal-miners who made a hard day's living from it are not.
Unless the better-off Americans do not empathize with the real hardships of the citizens of Paris and Hazard...Donald Trump is inevitable.
12
A lot of these people made very good money, so they're not necessarily poor.
3
These people are scared and they are angry. Trump offers them a way to direct their anger, just as Bernie Sanders did. Most choices people make are based on emotions and rationalized only after. Never has it been more apparent then here. The only way to counter this is to direct these emotions where they belong.
Be scared ... of Trump. And be angry... of every obstruction the Republicans have put in place to defend the wealthy at the expense of everything else. So if you vote out of fear and anger, vote for Hillary.
Be scared ... of Trump. And be angry... of every obstruction the Republicans have put in place to defend the wealthy at the expense of everything else. So if you vote out of fear and anger, vote for Hillary.
67
Hillary's strong Methodist faith ain't that strong if she considers that "basket of deplorables" "irredeemable." Not very Christian of her, I'd say--and I ain't a Christian.
She was mighty interested in those "irredeemables" during primary season--and so was the DNC, wondering if they could make use of all that xeonophobic anti-Semitism to defeat Bernie.
And some of my fellow commenters keep wondering why I keep calling Hillary loathsome.
As an ex-Noo Yawkuh, I saw a remarkable number of supposedly well-educated, middle-class people express astounding ignorance about the world and anyone different from themselves. People with masters degrees; people who taught in our public schools who never read the newspaper. (In any form; they weren't part of the social media world either.) All you needed to do was change their religious affiliation and their accents, and they'd sound a lot like the people profiled here.
Hillary doesn't want to be the President for all Americans. She just wants to be President, and will do and say whatever it takes to achieve that, even if the message changes hourly depending on the audience. She switches that faux Arkansas accent off and on so much I'm surprised she doesn't short-circuit herself.
Neither of these candidates cares about anyone except their own repellent selves.
She was mighty interested in those "irredeemables" during primary season--and so was the DNC, wondering if they could make use of all that xeonophobic anti-Semitism to defeat Bernie.
And some of my fellow commenters keep wondering why I keep calling Hillary loathsome.
As an ex-Noo Yawkuh, I saw a remarkable number of supposedly well-educated, middle-class people express astounding ignorance about the world and anyone different from themselves. People with masters degrees; people who taught in our public schools who never read the newspaper. (In any form; they weren't part of the social media world either.) All you needed to do was change their religious affiliation and their accents, and they'd sound a lot like the people profiled here.
Hillary doesn't want to be the President for all Americans. She just wants to be President, and will do and say whatever it takes to achieve that, even if the message changes hourly depending on the audience. She switches that faux Arkansas accent off and on so much I'm surprised she doesn't short-circuit herself.
Neither of these candidates cares about anyone except their own repellent selves.
15
Hillary's absolutely right to say some folks, in terms of their beliefs, attitudes, and behavior, are beyond reasoning with and are therefore irredeemably hostile to facts and actually helpful progressive policies. As to Christian... Jesus himself gave up talking to some of those who stubbornly opposed him, refusing to "cast his pearls before swine."
12
Hillary is not one to judge who is irredeemable and neither are you, Michael Evans-Laying. And, no one is ever unable to be reached by facts. His fact may be different from yours. Or, you may not be skilled enough in the power of persuasion.
1
Change the photos and names, and commenters could be reviling "stupid, ignorant" black and brown people in Democratic strongholds like Detroit, Flint and [fill in here]. People in places where the good factory jobs disappeared, often leaving horrifying pollution behind, and who didn't--for a multiplicity of reasons--relocate or retrain.
I've started counting, now, how many times Hillary invokes St. Ronnie on the stump (when she's not talking about Trump's "basket of deplorables").
Hillary's not exactly the safer choice for anyone who wants Gold Star families to become a vanishing species. Just keep in mind that "the smart people"--going back to JFK--have left a trail of destruction throughout the world that "the little people" continue to pay for. Neither Hillary nor Trump are qualified to be the President we, and the world, need/s.
I've started counting, now, how many times Hillary invokes St. Ronnie on the stump (when she's not talking about Trump's "basket of deplorables").
Hillary's not exactly the safer choice for anyone who wants Gold Star families to become a vanishing species. Just keep in mind that "the smart people"--going back to JFK--have left a trail of destruction throughout the world that "the little people" continue to pay for. Neither Hillary nor Trump are qualified to be the President we, and the world, need/s.
10
This election is to find someone to run the place until actual ordinary people decide to run for the White House. Hopefully the biased media won't do the Sarah Palin personal destruction treatment on any of them who don't parrot the political correctness dogma.
Let's see what Assange has to say about it.
Let's see what Assange has to say about it.
5
I highly recommend the book now on all best seller lists. A narrative of life lived in eastern Kentucky and southern Ohio and the mentality of persons he grew up with. A population uneducated with no ambition to rise economically. Many spend days in drug and alcohol daze. The book is by J.D Vance titled "Hillbilly Elegy" He chronicles the day to day living of truly dysfunctional families. Never changing generation to generation. Most are school dropouts.These people vote Republican. Most all blame government for their plight in life.
35
You don't have to live in rural Kentucky to be among a population described in this blog. Here in northern New Hampshire, I live amongst a population that hasn't changed its values, views, or way of life since their ancestors settled here in Colonial times. The pickup truck has replaced the horse is the only difference. "As my daddy said...." Theirs views are locked in by age 15 and no further intellectual growth occurs. It's depressing, but even more, it's sad.
1
Is it just me, or does it feel like this story could have been written 6 months ago? Since then we've gotten lots of data showing that a significant number of Trump supporters are in fact better off than these "I went to real America" anecdotes would indicate.
To refresh: (1) 72% of Republican voters believe Obama is not a citizen, and therefore is an "illegal" POTUS; (2) Trump is largely running on a white supremacist platform with avowed white supremacists working at high levels in his campaign; (3) we are not in a recession.
But, yeah, Trump's only a few points down in national polling because coal plants in rural Kentucky shut down.
To refresh: (1) 72% of Republican voters believe Obama is not a citizen, and therefore is an "illegal" POTUS; (2) Trump is largely running on a white supremacist platform with avowed white supremacists working at high levels in his campaign; (3) we are not in a recession.
But, yeah, Trump's only a few points down in national polling because coal plants in rural Kentucky shut down.
38
I am amazed that Trump has been able to appeal to as many people that he has...I am amazed because I find Trump to be someone who cannot be believed or trusted -- one who will say and do anything to achieve his objectives, including viciously destroying the reputations of those who happen to be in his way. He is like a freight train filled with toxic waste with no brakes -- with no moral compass...that his mission takes precedence over all else.
At this point, everyone should know by now that he is a chronic liar. And the magnitude of his lies know no bounds. It is because of this fact that the media needs to rise to the occasion and reveal the truth about this man in no uncertain terms so that we, the electorate, can make an informed choice when we go to cast our vote on Nov. 8th.
Up to this point, I have been deeply frustrated and dismayed by the lack of accountability that our media has demanded of this creature. Are they afraid to confront this megalomaniac for fear he will vent his hate and venom on them? I pray that their higher sense of purpose overcomes any reluctance to reveal the truth about this man.
The media has given Trump and his cadre of misery (his surrogates) far too much leverage by allowing them to spew their lies and nonsense without challenge. This is so very harmful to our democracy.
Our media has a responsibility to report the truth and not be just a conduit for his campaign to disseminate his toxic garbage. We need a well informed electorate!
At this point, everyone should know by now that he is a chronic liar. And the magnitude of his lies know no bounds. It is because of this fact that the media needs to rise to the occasion and reveal the truth about this man in no uncertain terms so that we, the electorate, can make an informed choice when we go to cast our vote on Nov. 8th.
Up to this point, I have been deeply frustrated and dismayed by the lack of accountability that our media has demanded of this creature. Are they afraid to confront this megalomaniac for fear he will vent his hate and venom on them? I pray that their higher sense of purpose overcomes any reluctance to reveal the truth about this man.
The media has given Trump and his cadre of misery (his surrogates) far too much leverage by allowing them to spew their lies and nonsense without challenge. This is so very harmful to our democracy.
Our media has a responsibility to report the truth and not be just a conduit for his campaign to disseminate his toxic garbage. We need a well informed electorate!
53
If some people want to ride the suicide train with Trump, well I guess I can't help it. I just wish I didn't have to be on board.
62
The last sentence was terrifying to read. You "don't care," Carrie McAll ?? Please look beyond the " Trumpeter" who has you in the palm of his hand. Please look into your heart and realize you are woefully misguided if you vote for such a creature. You live in Kentucky and I'm sure have voted for that McConnell fellow who has been intent for 8 years blocking Mr.Obama's attempts to govern. What has he done for his own state ??? I'd love to know. Why blame everyone else,he shoulders much of the woes you are feeling. I pray you and others in your sad Kentucky can look past the lies,he's not going to remember you, Carrie, " believe me !!! "
72
A few people have made comments about how uneducated many of the people in the article are but I think there's more going on there.
The only thing constant in this life is change. But change is terrifying. We want to believe we have a certain amount of control over our lives. If I eat this, wear that, work here, live there, make x amount of money, I will be safe, healthy, and happy. We tell ourselves this and we want our politicians to reinforce those beliefs. Facing the uncertainty and complexity in our lives and politics is just too much for many of us.
The only thing constant in this life is change. But change is terrifying. We want to believe we have a certain amount of control over our lives. If I eat this, wear that, work here, live there, make x amount of money, I will be safe, healthy, and happy. We tell ourselves this and we want our politicians to reinforce those beliefs. Facing the uncertainty and complexity in our lives and politics is just too much for many of us.
20
Everyone here over hypes the power of the Presidency. Obama spent 8 years trying to go things inherently GOOD and achieved basically nothing- shallow victories at best. Hillary will be in the same boat after Obama. She assumes Republicans will be more willing to work with her- that's her biggest mistake. Our Grandpa stacked Congress is as old fashioned as ever- and will not want to see a woman succeed. It will be a succession of aggressive policy attempts resulting in watered down compromises to pacify the lobbies and special interest groups. Trump on the other hand has nothing to lose- If he is adamant about change he'll play both sides of the aisle. He'll have more leverage than LBJ and enormous opportunity to get this done. This is what scares the pants of the DC establishment- and also explains why some Republicans endorse Hillary. They have had it too good too long and fear that an outsider will destroy their cushy jobs. That's the long and short end of it..
8
I get the hell these people find themselves in, I really do, but they are supporting once again the people who are keeping them there. Many things could be done - jobs programs that could benefit both them and the country by fixing our aging infrastructure before it really starts to fail is one place to start - but the Republicans will keep blocking anything that even resembles such a thing to ensure that the Democrats don't wind up looking like they accomplished something. I'm sorry, but voting for Trump in this environment is like taking a flame thrower to your house because you don't like the kitchen. There are ways to mitigate these problems - its been done before - but Trump is not one of them.
39
The blame should not be on Obama... It starts with corporate greed, and is allowed to grow with the willingness or ignorance of governing officials from the local level up. A lot could be done BEFORE a community, county, state becomes defined by one industry. Coal power HAS to diminish (worldwide, not just Appalachia) in order for our entire planet to survive. But politics and the lack of the average voter's knowledge of political maneuvering feeds into this region's acceptance of Trump as a representative of "spectacular" change. If these people, as well intended and frustrated as they may be see him as their savior, they are going to be sorely disappointed. I would venture to say that Trump, even if he was speaking at their town hall would have an "Aleppo" moment if he had to announce where he was.
This is the weakness across our national voting population. We don't investigate and interview our local candidates. They become more powerful, and no one can deny that desperate communities can be blinded to side-effects when economy building carrots are dangled in front of them.
I hope the presidential race will tilt in a rational direction. It may not happen because the electorate comes to its senses ... if it doesn't, not only this part of America may be in a maelstrom such as we have never seen -- economically, diplomatically and militarily -- but nationally as well. And because we ARE already a great world power, there will be an international ripple effect.
This is the weakness across our national voting population. We don't investigate and interview our local candidates. They become more powerful, and no one can deny that desperate communities can be blinded to side-effects when economy building carrots are dangled in front of them.
I hope the presidential race will tilt in a rational direction. It may not happen because the electorate comes to its senses ... if it doesn't, not only this part of America may be in a maelstrom such as we have never seen -- economically, diplomatically and militarily -- but nationally as well. And because we ARE already a great world power, there will be an international ripple effect.
12
Obama comes to the blame line first because he intentionally ran our economy off a cliff just when we needed a jobs guy willing to cut regulations and work with others. I really blame the party apparatus that decided this dangerous unknown was somehow qualified to stand next to Truman and Roosevelt.
5
L'Osservatore, I have read several of your "blame Obama" screeds in the comments section, and most of them contain falisies. I'll correct this one for you. The economy crashed under Bush, not Obama. You're welcome.
1
My job takes me all around the NY metro area, from Suffolk to Orange, Ulster and Greene with all points in between.
You see almost zero Hillary signs. Anywhere.
Once you get past the "money line", roughly I 84, and go north, you start seeing signs...a lot of them.
They are all Trump.
They aren't the standard "stick it in your lawn" campaign signs. These are shrines....4x8 sheets of plywood, multiple colors, festooned with flags. They took work and effort, not just "hey can I put a sign on your lawn".
There are a lot of them. This election will be very, very close, no matter what my NYC area echo chamber and my liberal news sources and liberal web sites say.
Shrines, not just signs. Think about this.
You see almost zero Hillary signs. Anywhere.
Once you get past the "money line", roughly I 84, and go north, you start seeing signs...a lot of them.
They are all Trump.
They aren't the standard "stick it in your lawn" campaign signs. These are shrines....4x8 sheets of plywood, multiple colors, festooned with flags. They took work and effort, not just "hey can I put a sign on your lawn".
There are a lot of them. This election will be very, very close, no matter what my NYC area echo chamber and my liberal news sources and liberal web sites say.
Shrines, not just signs. Think about this.
18
Perhaps, in their Spectacular desperation, they could to the more local officials they've elected, including McConnell and on down. Aren't these, after all, people who subscribe to personal responsibility? (Having lived there, I know of the pervasive racist disconnect of which I write.)
8
A lot of the commenters--and Cohen, whose commentary I normally appreciate--should get out of the NYC bubble and go to Middle America more often. Phrases like "Starbucks-free main street" made me cringe and showed that while Cohen is an incredibly cosmopolitan person, there are destinations, such as Middle America, that are novel to him.
12
Maybe someone there in Paris, KY could open their own coffee shop and enjoy the no Starbucks/no competition environment. They could even roast their own beans.
The last paragraph says it all: "I don't care. After all I've been through, I just don't care." I understand the feeling that the rug has been pulled out from under you. But to not care - about your community, your country, and the planet - to the extent that this "not caring" allows you to support someone who is a lying, selfish, self promoter, who has contributed nothing to the country, who has been a terrible business person, who has not outlined a single policy that makes any sense - I just don't get. Maybe the attraction is that he doesn't care either, as long as he has as many TV cameras as possible aimed in his direction. Wake up, people.
18
A tenet of Eastern philosophy comes to mind: "Nothing is as dangerous as an unrecognized belief." For many Trumpians, it's the subconscious-held hunch that anarchy and the resulting chaos will restore some Eisenhower era mythos: a bunting-adorned perpetual July 4th where neighbors all look like you, people of color are (only) athletes and entertainers, and coal miners and CEOs alike have unlimited disposable income. The chasm between "make American great" and a 1957 small town life that disappeared into myriad post-Vietnam changes is devoid of actual plans or policy. And most Trump supporters know that. They want to cast a vote connected to a time machine, even knowing no such invention exists. It's a the year of the irrational, primal, no-results-on-the horizon-be-damned vote. And it's terrifying.
21
What Mrs Hedges and the Bourbon Boot Supply company truly needs is not a spectacular new president, but someone, some group/company to go into these towns, find these businesses and teach them how to compete and market themselves in the NEW and not going away economy. I guarantee, if these boots are good quality, they'd sell like proverbial hot-cakes in foreign markets! Rich oil Arabs, Hong Kong investment bankers, China, to oligarchs in Russia.
Incentives are needed to get these businesses "educated", which could come from government initiatives - but Trump aint going to be the herald of such ideas. Supporters like Mrs Hedges have to dig deeper into what Trump "the businessman" actually has done, not what they think he's done,or what he lies about having done. He knows nothing about running a small business since he's never been a small-biz owner. He's not the small entrepreneur who obsesses over supply-chains, distribution channels, and most especially doesnt obsess about fair-trade practices. I doubt he even knows the term, and if he does, he turns his nose up at it.
I feel bad that so many people are hurting, just like me - but I temper my empathy, when I know people like those in towns like Paris KY across the nation wont do their homework on Trump. Most especially wont look past the GOP and the Right Wing (too often christian as well) radio propaganda machines, and dig deeper into the realities about Hillary Clinton's real record of successes. (inc.Pres Obama!)
Incentives are needed to get these businesses "educated", which could come from government initiatives - but Trump aint going to be the herald of such ideas. Supporters like Mrs Hedges have to dig deeper into what Trump "the businessman" actually has done, not what they think he's done,or what he lies about having done. He knows nothing about running a small business since he's never been a small-biz owner. He's not the small entrepreneur who obsesses over supply-chains, distribution channels, and most especially doesnt obsess about fair-trade practices. I doubt he even knows the term, and if he does, he turns his nose up at it.
I feel bad that so many people are hurting, just like me - but I temper my empathy, when I know people like those in towns like Paris KY across the nation wont do their homework on Trump. Most especially wont look past the GOP and the Right Wing (too often christian as well) radio propaganda machines, and dig deeper into the realities about Hillary Clinton's real record of successes. (inc.Pres Obama!)
23
Good work. You captured the mood of Americans who feel beat down by a system that really is rigged against the middle class. Since the mid 1970s, the social contract that assured a good life in exchange for hard work has been broken. Folks feel burned. While race is a factor, this articles underscores the economic basis for Trump's support. That anger should be redirected from Obama to the do-nothing Congress that has failed to protect the middle class.
25
The system is only rigged if people don't vote. Our vote is our voice. To say one is "beat down" is a cop out. Do some real research, make your decisions and vote.
As John F. Kennedy said, "Ask not what your country can do for you. Ask what YOU can do for your country." Then do it.
As John F. Kennedy said, "Ask not what your country can do for you. Ask what YOU can do for your country." Then do it.
17
Meanwhile Hillary refused to answer hours of calls for help from good people in Benghazi - and then LIED to us with a fake story her daughter KNEW was a lie for two weeks.
Her cheap server setup had her talking up a man in Iraq helping us - until he got executed. Do you still pretend computers aren't hacked?
Did Hillary do exactly what was NOT good for her country? Now Iran, China, and Russia are on the march and Europe is all tied up in knots - thanks to Hillary For Sale.
Her cheap server setup had her talking up a man in Iraq helping us - until he got executed. Do you still pretend computers aren't hacked?
Did Hillary do exactly what was NOT good for her country? Now Iran, China, and Russia are on the march and Europe is all tied up in knots - thanks to Hillary For Sale.
3
Nglea:
What have you done to help those in Kentucky get out and vote? And as for that old JFK saying: some folks have given a lot to their country and still have been screwed. Some even voted. Thinks vets, think 9/11 responders. Just think.
What have you done to help those in Kentucky get out and vote? And as for that old JFK saying: some folks have given a lot to their country and still have been screwed. Some even voted. Thinks vets, think 9/11 responders. Just think.
2
Republicans paint these disenfranchied whites as lazy; Democrats as racist bigots. Both explanations cover the failure of the respective parties to prepare older workers for the inevitable, disruptive effects of globlism and technology.
Should these coal-country workers practice the self-reliance they preach and help themselves? Many have, if my reading is correct. The young, especially, have moved away for other opportunities. But at a certain age, that becomes harder and harder to do.
As to the question of blaming Obama for their plight, yes, racism is part of it – tribal indentity is a powerful instinct – but I can't name an American president who wasn't blamed for economic hard times.
Should these coal-country workers practice the self-reliance they preach and help themselves? Many have, if my reading is correct. The young, especially, have moved away for other opportunities. But at a certain age, that becomes harder and harder to do.
As to the question of blaming Obama for their plight, yes, racism is part of it – tribal indentity is a powerful instinct – but I can't name an American president who wasn't blamed for economic hard times.
8
No, the GOP sees these rural Americans as where THEY come from not too long ago. The Dems use them as the enemy that is required in order to sell more political correctness and more government power.
3
Davy Crockett was from Kentucky. He stood his ground and got slaughtered at the Alamo. Real smart.
5
Crockett did more for his country that you have, however. He lived free of progressivism and died with honor. Who will know your name in two centuries?
3
“All of which has led her to the conviction that the country is off track and needs “somebody spectacular to get us halfway straight.” And therein lies the problem in a nutshell – magical thinking. “Spectacular” is a word the entertainment industry uses to sell a show, a movie, a performance – it is a not a term that should be associated with the sobering realities and responsibilities of the most powerful and important job on the planet. In a very real sense, Donald Trump is the ultimate in political performance art – he knows nothing, believes in nothing, cares about nothing beyond the satisfaction of his personal needs – but he is loud, brash, crass and crude and is well-practiced in going straight to the consumer’s Id. “You’re fired!” is not merely a clever tag line from a reality TV show, but is a campaign meme that tells the world that Donald Trump always cuts through thoughts, feelings, and ideas to just get things done. The worst part is that the good people of Paris, Ky. and other spots think that he is real.
41
I grew up in Appalachia -- born and raised in rural Kentucky -- and I can give you a lot of context. One of the most important lines in this story is incredibly overlooked:
"...forge a creative economy around agriculture, ecotourism, education and small-scale manufacture."
Investing in these areas along with education and infrastructure is the only road ahead for Kentucky. Sadly, if this doesn't happen, no one will be able to live in what is already one of the poorest regions of the U.S.
"...forge a creative economy around agriculture, ecotourism, education and small-scale manufacture."
Investing in these areas along with education and infrastructure is the only road ahead for Kentucky. Sadly, if this doesn't happen, no one will be able to live in what is already one of the poorest regions of the U.S.
51
These coal crybabies kind of like Vladimir Putin. Cool!
2
We need someone sane.
As someone on CNN noted last night, the crazy commentary comes so hard and fast now that there is no time to process any one thing, yet some "ideas" are so terrifying that they deserve close examination.
Last night Trump both fantasized about Hillary breaking into his rally and shooting people in the heart (a bizarre echo of his own insane fantasy that he could kill people on 5th Ave. and not be held accountable; apparently he can't remember when he's the source himself). No sooner had he said this, then he'd upped the ante by noting that his new foreign "policy" "plank" is "to shoot on sight any Iranian boat that even makes a gesture." Nothing like promising to be a war criminal before you're in office.
It's long past time that the gloves came off. As O'Donnell said, "These are the ravings of a mad man...Had any other candidate in the history of this country said either statement, their candidacy would be over."
Trump is a menace to the world. Journalists have finally cottoned on to that when it may be too late. It's time to start calling it like it is. Because we passed the Crazy Bus a long time ago and are now passing the kind of carnage along the road that speaks to a terrifying future if we do not pull over and stop right now.
He's a raging narcissist and unhinged now. Give him power and he'll wreck the kind of havoc Stalin and Hitler did. How do we know? He has told us so, himself, in his own words.
As someone on CNN noted last night, the crazy commentary comes so hard and fast now that there is no time to process any one thing, yet some "ideas" are so terrifying that they deserve close examination.
Last night Trump both fantasized about Hillary breaking into his rally and shooting people in the heart (a bizarre echo of his own insane fantasy that he could kill people on 5th Ave. and not be held accountable; apparently he can't remember when he's the source himself). No sooner had he said this, then he'd upped the ante by noting that his new foreign "policy" "plank" is "to shoot on sight any Iranian boat that even makes a gesture." Nothing like promising to be a war criminal before you're in office.
It's long past time that the gloves came off. As O'Donnell said, "These are the ravings of a mad man...Had any other candidate in the history of this country said either statement, their candidacy would be over."
Trump is a menace to the world. Journalists have finally cottoned on to that when it may be too late. It's time to start calling it like it is. Because we passed the Crazy Bus a long time ago and are now passing the kind of carnage along the road that speaks to a terrifying future if we do not pull over and stop right now.
He's a raging narcissist and unhinged now. Give him power and he'll wreck the kind of havoc Stalin and Hitler did. How do we know? He has told us so, himself, in his own words.
71
America is not an enterprise run for the benefit of coal miners. There are lots of working people whose livings are affected by coastal flooding now acknowledged to be caused by global warming.
49
cohen gets an important fact wrong....Paris Ky is not in Appalachia...it is a fat cat town in the Bluegrass and home. to a large clan of mine owners and their lobbyists who finance the Republican party and stoutly resist any effort to try and solve these problems...beyond their mantra..."dig more coal so we can continue to make money." The Democrats are not the problem.
26
rb - Very interesting! I didn't know that (or much of anything) about Paris. In light of your comment, I wonder whether the working people described in this article are victims of poisoned pablum being fed to them by their neighbors across the tracks. I searched on "what is the local newspaper in Paris, Kentucky" and came up with the Herald Reader of Lexington. However, on a quick scan I got the impression that it's an even-handed paper whose editorial board will endorse Hillary Clinton. But back to your point: Are the people profiled in this piece living in the shadow, not of Washington but of mansions on nearby hills? Maybe Roger Cohen used the wrong reasoning to select the town in which he'd make his inquiries.
7
I am from eastern Ky. I am ashamed. Coal is not coming back and yet the people have not prepared for this obvious eventuality. That is just stupid. The EPA is not killing coal. Capitalism is killing coal. It is dying a natural death. RIP.
This is a great example of why Sanders is the better candidate. He speaks to these people much more clearly than Clinton. But they did not hear it from the NYTimes.
This is a great example of why Sanders is the better candidate. He speaks to these people much more clearly than Clinton. But they did not hear it from the NYTimes.
19
The lack of truth everywhere is mind boggling.
The jobs of America's future are in its cities. American's must face the reality that if they want jobs the must learn the skills necessary to be an urban worker.
America is 80% urban and the percentage is growing.
For those who will or can't become urban there is a choice.
I live in an old mill town and the jobs of my community's future are tied to convincing ever more people like myself that where I live now is a good place to retire.
We have been here six years and there are enough people here that recognize that taking care of people like ourselves is good business and the mill is never coming back.
America is incredibly rich there is no sane reason to go back down into the mines.
The jobs of America's future are in its cities. American's must face the reality that if they want jobs the must learn the skills necessary to be an urban worker.
America is 80% urban and the percentage is growing.
For those who will or can't become urban there is a choice.
I live in an old mill town and the jobs of my community's future are tied to convincing ever more people like myself that where I live now is a good place to retire.
We have been here six years and there are enough people here that recognize that taking care of people like ourselves is good business and the mill is never coming back.
America is incredibly rich there is no sane reason to go back down into the mines.
17
Yes - I mentioned elsewhere, that what their country has is beauty and history, and their culture. Tourism and retirement communities are viable economic sectors. Many jobs come with that.
They're service jobs, though, mainly. And it won't keep all their towns full. But I've moved around this country and there are ghost towns everywhere. Old New England mill towns. Dead towns in the American west, near exhausted silver mines and water springs.
Change is a part of life.
They're service jobs, though, mainly. And it won't keep all their towns full. But I've moved around this country and there are ghost towns everywhere. Old New England mill towns. Dead towns in the American west, near exhausted silver mines and water springs.
Change is a part of life.
7
Whether Mr Trump is elected or not, the forces of despair and neglect let loose by the policies of democrats will continue to organize and rally around opposition candidates. One day, if not this day, their cri de coeur will instead be
un appel aux armes. That will be the liberal legacy.
un appel aux armes. That will be the liberal legacy.
8
I'm still wondering what any republican had done for these folks lately?
36
or.... they vote for the candidate who resembles them the most. Bill "Bubba" vs George. Dubya vs Albert. Anybody except a black guy, even John or Mitt.
I recall talking to a blue-grass musician here in Birmingham. He was glowing about a rich guy who had hired him to play at a party the previous night..... real down to earth good guy. I pointed out that the rich guy had recently been forced out as a CEO because his company's safety record was so bad that it had become a national scandal and as a CEO he had been egregiously callous. Didn't matter to the musician; the rich guy was a good old boy. That's what mattered.
I've been to Hazard back during the good old days. It looked pretty tenuous, even back then. Their subsistence wasn't just coal. They had tobacco allotments, which have also disappeared, and along with their crummy old factories. The walkin' around money they took to allow coal to despoil their land is gone and the rich "good old boys" who profited have moved to Florida.
I'd suggest that anyone nostalgic for days gone by go visit one of those strip mines. I have. They are despicable. I have little sympathy for people's nostalgia for the way of life those mines supported. They need to move. Their children are moving, and there won't be enough young people left to staff their nursing homes..... which is true of many smaller towns here in Alabama, too.
I recall talking to a blue-grass musician here in Birmingham. He was glowing about a rich guy who had hired him to play at a party the previous night..... real down to earth good guy. I pointed out that the rich guy had recently been forced out as a CEO because his company's safety record was so bad that it had become a national scandal and as a CEO he had been egregiously callous. Didn't matter to the musician; the rich guy was a good old boy. That's what mattered.
I've been to Hazard back during the good old days. It looked pretty tenuous, even back then. Their subsistence wasn't just coal. They had tobacco allotments, which have also disappeared, and along with their crummy old factories. The walkin' around money they took to allow coal to despoil their land is gone and the rich "good old boys" who profited have moved to Florida.
I'd suggest that anyone nostalgic for days gone by go visit one of those strip mines. I have. They are despicable. I have little sympathy for people's nostalgia for the way of life those mines supported. They need to move. Their children are moving, and there won't be enough young people left to staff their nursing homes..... which is true of many smaller towns here in Alabama, too.
21
Your compassion overwhelms.
4
Compassion needn't replace logic or truth.
If your own life is going down the toilet, you want everybody else's to follow suit.
18
These people vote based on his-story. Not history. If Trump ever win, these people will regret it like they did for Bush jr. ..
6
I read about Cindy Hedges and I think "oh you poor fool". If she thinks things are tough now for her now, just wait till she is living in trumpland. The people who believed in Trump and his Atlantic City venture, lost 90% of their investment. Basically, they lost everything. Ms. Hedges should remember this when it comes time to vote.
35
I would pay close attention to the sign in the window which reads "The Silent Majority Stands With Trump. Back in 1968 it was the Silent Majority that elected Richard Nixon president. It is the Silent Majority who ultimately decides who is going to be living in the White House in this coming January. Ignore the Silent Majority at your peril.
Now if I may I'd like to paraphrase something from Blazing Saddles which is attributed to the late, great Gene Wilder:
"What is a dazzling urbanite like Roger Cohen doing in a rustic setting like Paris Kentucky?"
Talk about being a fish out of water.
Now if I may I'd like to paraphrase something from Blazing Saddles which is attributed to the late, great Gene Wilder:
"What is a dazzling urbanite like Roger Cohen doing in a rustic setting like Paris Kentucky?"
Talk about being a fish out of water.
10
The rationale for the rural states being out of the loop in understanding that "globalization" is here to stay and tearing up the current trade agreements, including NAFTA will not bring anyone's job back. Blaming Obama is to obscure the truth: the main reason why we here in America keep getting the skinny end of the shaft.
We keep reading print media and watching TV news, expecting to get the full story. Most of the Trump supporters wouldn't care if the Donald stood in the middle of Times Square and randomly just shot somebody. He said so himself.
Well he said that and a lot more, showing Mr. Trump to be devoid of any values, morality, or respect for another human life. His legendary breaking the rules in his contracts, non-payment of debts, bankruptcies, and his complete and utter disregard for following the agreements he's signed are legendary also.
The Appalachian character is not what I read in today's column. I read about, fear, rage, and hardly any of the values they expect from each other. Being angry seems to be going around, but I really thought that the people were not looking to the bottom of the barrel for someone to vote for President. Most negative attitudes are still unfortunately racist. Time to let it go just as it's time to stop buying the Conservatives's lies. How has your life been enhanced by the complete shutdown of any laws or enactments of real job legislation by that republican party so desperately hanging on to a dead past?
We keep reading print media and watching TV news, expecting to get the full story. Most of the Trump supporters wouldn't care if the Donald stood in the middle of Times Square and randomly just shot somebody. He said so himself.
Well he said that and a lot more, showing Mr. Trump to be devoid of any values, morality, or respect for another human life. His legendary breaking the rules in his contracts, non-payment of debts, bankruptcies, and his complete and utter disregard for following the agreements he's signed are legendary also.
The Appalachian character is not what I read in today's column. I read about, fear, rage, and hardly any of the values they expect from each other. Being angry seems to be going around, but I really thought that the people were not looking to the bottom of the barrel for someone to vote for President. Most negative attitudes are still unfortunately racist. Time to let it go just as it's time to stop buying the Conservatives's lies. How has your life been enhanced by the complete shutdown of any laws or enactments of real job legislation by that republican party so desperately hanging on to a dead past?
16
I imagine this may be how the manufacturers of buggy whips felt. Or beta tapes. Or the people who sold textbooks on Pittman method shorthand, or for that matter, the thousands of women who earned a living as secretaries. I don't think the jury is still out on the effects of coal on the environment and the need for cleaner, sustainable fuels. The mistake was not the intentional decline of the coal industry, but the lack of any planning for what would take its place. Everyone would like to earn $70,000 a year, and most Americans never have.
23
Omg ! He very well might win! Too many Americans revile political dynasties, whether Bush or Clinton.
They do get tiring...
Thanks DNC Debbie and fourth estate.
You've put us in quite the position.
They do get tiring...
Thanks DNC Debbie and fourth estate.
You've put us in quite the position.
6
It's as though these desperate people are willing to destroy our country to cling to their delusion that an incompetent, failed businessman and reality TV star will reverse the inevitable decline of an industry defined by finite sources. They parrot Trump talking points like lemmings using phrases like "shooting from the hip." How completely frightening.
21
Lets put it bluntly: People concerned about climate change want to put the coal miners out of business. This includes Clinton and most Democrats. It is just the way it is and you can't soften it any. As such, you can't blame people from West Virginia or Kentucky from voting for Trump.
7
Somebody should demand that Trump explain how he is going to bring back jobs mining coal when fracked gas is so cheap and is in oversupply to the extent that it is being exported, and when coal mining is being automated to the extent that fewer miners produce more coal.
How do you convince a for-profit company to make more of a product that it can't sell?
Donald Trump needs to explain how he will do that.
How do you convince a for-profit company to make more of a product that it can't sell?
Donald Trump needs to explain how he will do that.
20
Neither the Kentucky residents' traditional coal-depending existence could ever be a permanent choice of life, nor the immediate anger born out of the economic dislocation could ever trump their rustic common sense that would ultimately come into play once the reality of Trump's lies and fake promises sinks in their collective consciousness making them revise their opinion about this political bluff master.
4
And, when professors are replaced with robots.....?
3
One thing I feel is a given is that all pols lie---even Bernie. They make promises that are impossible to keep. But Trump lies more than anyone. He uses emotional blackmail to get his way. And when those lies are broken, they will deeply hurt those who really and truly need something positive in their lives.
No true Christian would vote for a man who praises a known murderer. But each and every day he praises Putin. Is this the type of leader you really want. Dig deep into your Bible. Hillary also lies, but she would never ever praise the likes of Putin and other dictators. I truly believe the only person Trump cares about is Trump.
No true Christian would vote for a man who praises a known murderer. But each and every day he praises Putin. Is this the type of leader you really want. Dig deep into your Bible. Hillary also lies, but she would never ever praise the likes of Putin and other dictators. I truly believe the only person Trump cares about is Trump.
47
Quick-buck artists should have their heyday with the easily-led and the easily-misled easily identified by the "Make America Great Again" signs on display. Back in the day, we joked about people with "Stupid" tattooed on their foreheads, now we have "I'm with Stupid" signs on front lawns.
12
I am an African American attorney who supported Bernie and will vote for Hillary grudgingly, but I will say this: The modern Democratic Party, with its incessant focus, at least rhetorically, on identity politics, diversity, and political correctness, rather than on economic inequality and reining in Wall Street as in the New Deal era, has lost the white working class. If I were a laid-off factory worker in Ohio, or coal miner in Kentucky, with most folks around me not doing well, and I heard the Democratic Party discussing my hypothesized "white privilege" or "male privilege," I probably wouldn't understand, would think they'd lost their minds, and would run kicking and screaming into the arms of the GOP. Instead of focusing on these diversity and identity politics issues, the Democratic Party ought to get back to what made it successful in the mid-Twentieth Century, economic populism. This would, over the long run, help it unite the working class vote among all demographic groups. Unfortunately, this would run counter to their Wall Street donor base, so they probably won't do it, and we'll be stuck with this dysfunctional political system for the foreseeable future.
63
Well said, Patrick.
Sanders was the first Democratic politician I've heard in a long time who didn't frame his policies in terms of how they could help women, minorities, gays, working moms, working families, immigrants, and pretty much any other demographic group except for white men. When I listened to Sanders speak, I heard a person who was willing to reach out to ALL Americans concerned about our economy- and a from a former civil rights leader no less.
It's no secret that white men who would/should vote for a party of the working class feel alienated from the Democratic Party and that this alienation may cost Democrats the election...
And yet, the party animosity toward white men is such that even in this scenario, a specific appeal to white men- the second largest voting demographic- has yet to be heard. In Clinton's speech accepting the nomination, she did a shout out to nearly every American demographic group- except you know who. The omission was noted.
The Democratic Party would go a long way toward making up with white men if they just mentioned them- "We should raise the minimum wage because it will help x, y, z, and white men too." Or use the Sanders model- just appeal to the 99 percent and don't single out any demographic group at all.
But the current model just isn't sustainable.
A smart guy once said, "It's the economy, stupid." Everything else is a distraction. Someone needs to remind the Democrats of this.
Sanders was the first Democratic politician I've heard in a long time who didn't frame his policies in terms of how they could help women, minorities, gays, working moms, working families, immigrants, and pretty much any other demographic group except for white men. When I listened to Sanders speak, I heard a person who was willing to reach out to ALL Americans concerned about our economy- and a from a former civil rights leader no less.
It's no secret that white men who would/should vote for a party of the working class feel alienated from the Democratic Party and that this alienation may cost Democrats the election...
And yet, the party animosity toward white men is such that even in this scenario, a specific appeal to white men- the second largest voting demographic- has yet to be heard. In Clinton's speech accepting the nomination, she did a shout out to nearly every American demographic group- except you know who. The omission was noted.
The Democratic Party would go a long way toward making up with white men if they just mentioned them- "We should raise the minimum wage because it will help x, y, z, and white men too." Or use the Sanders model- just appeal to the 99 percent and don't single out any demographic group at all.
But the current model just isn't sustainable.
A smart guy once said, "It's the economy, stupid." Everything else is a distraction. Someone needs to remind the Democrats of this.
14
I disagree, the Democrats lost white working class voters with the passing of the Voting Rights Act of 1964.
Back then, they could not tolerate change and today they still cannot.
Back then, they could not tolerate change and today they still cannot.
Remember when all of those multitudes of textile jobs that moved to the south and displaced northern workers then inspired the southerners to compassion and assistance for others hurt by a changing business climate?
Yeah, I don't either.
Yeah, I don't either.
62
Theo D., what you say is true. Even more than your example. Here in New England the economy has been hit hard by changing times since the 1600's. The whaling industry came and went, farming took a huge hit when the lands in the Midwest opened up (NE is still covered with the foundation of abandoned farmhouses), the ice cutting industry (second only to cotton is value) was destroyed by refrigeration. and, of course, the textile industry went South (both literally and figuratively). The difference between New England and the South is the level of education and the educational infrastructure. New England and its people can and have reeducate and reinvented themselves repeatably.
28
Absolutely the truth. It has happened here a number of times. We're still watching the aftermath of the lost textile industry as buildings are being repurposed and new business slowly develops. I'm sure the people who lived through the industrial revolution felt much the same. But progress means some things die and other things replace them. It's often a painful process but it's been going on throughout the history of human civilization.
11
So, them why vote at all?
1
I hope these people enjoy going to war when Donald "Neville Chamberlain" Trump invites Russian aggression in Europe with the bromance appeasement of Vladimir Putin.
7
Mr. Cohen you nailed it. I have a foot in both the urban and rural worlds and I have been trying in vain for some time to get across to my 'airy fairy' intellectual friends how visceral the political anger coming from the heartland is. Finally, maybe, now they are getting it. Thank you for writing so clearly about this. Trump voters are not stupid. They just live on the other side of the looking glass and they built a big part of our country. We need to listen to each other. Thank you for writing this.
20
Maybe they built part of America, but they are the fools they are being treated as and taken for as long as they support Trump. Are these the same people who kept snake oil people in business? As long as they support a huckster like Trump, they are the suckers P.T. Barnum was referring to. and I don't listen to NPR or drink craft beer....
6
Caseynm:
Who cares what you don't drink? Calling your fellow citizens fools is representative of why your candidate is struggling. You will never persuade another with these tactics. Or, maybe you're just exercising your superiority muscle.
Who cares what you don't drink? Calling your fellow citizens fools is representative of why your candidate is struggling. You will never persuade another with these tactics. Or, maybe you're just exercising your superiority muscle.
8
I'm sorry, but after reading the top Reader's Picks -- and as deeply as I share the compassion and sadness of many of these commenters -- in simple language, the Trump supporters described in this article are just plain stupid.
24
yup
4
More ignorant and stubborn than stupid.
5
Sorry Alex, but you do not share their compassion and neither do caseynm and theod and your various recommenders. There but for the grace of god...
5
An exceptionally insightful column, especially considering Cohen's non-American background, which I share. Way to go NYT ! May you never be forced to sell yourself to Donald Trump or his ilk !
6
Roger Cohen gets it. He didn't ask Paris KY about NATO, though?
You will see many commenters here talk about lip service. Those who had all of their power stolen just don't care. They are ready to burn it down.
A breaking point would involve an informal secessionist movement, against which the armed forces and national guard would be helpless, as most enlisted come from the disenfranchised class.
We aren't there yet. But another 20 years of city-state building in the new global economy, and we will be.
Now go ahead and shrug that off as over-the-top and reactionary, sip you microbrew, and enjoy your NPR story. We will get back to you in 20.
You will see many commenters here talk about lip service. Those who had all of their power stolen just don't care. They are ready to burn it down.
A breaking point would involve an informal secessionist movement, against which the armed forces and national guard would be helpless, as most enlisted come from the disenfranchised class.
We aren't there yet. But another 20 years of city-state building in the new global economy, and we will be.
Now go ahead and shrug that off as over-the-top and reactionary, sip you microbrew, and enjoy your NPR story. We will get back to you in 20.
11
If you think President Obama had a problem playing nice with Congress, do you really want to replace him with Donald Trump?.
No Mr Trump you can't "fire" congress, nor can you fire "the Generals". You can fire your own people, because you snapped your fingers, and said "make it happen", and they didn't, but that will get you no closer to getting things done.
No Mr Trump you can't "fire" congress, nor can you fire "the Generals". You can fire your own people, because you snapped your fingers, and said "make it happen", and they didn't, but that will get you no closer to getting things done.
15
Hillary will take your money, your pension and your retirement to give to those that support her. America needs to rise up and support Trump! If we don't, we will lose our country, our laws and our freedom. This is a fact. We must win this election. Vote Trump! Vote for a commander in Chief, not a corrupt politician that will suck us dry.
6
This is an utter delusion. If you think that privileged egotistical, childish billionaire cares a fig for you or the conditions of your life you are sadly mistaken. He does not. I just hope come next January you and all the rest of us don't find out just how true that is.
16
Maybe they're counting on Trump bringing his Chinese-made goods back to the States for production???
22
Another article trying to normalize Trump and make him seem to be a rational choice for some people.
16
If there was a penny for every bit of ink spilled about the "angry"/"ignored"/"frustrated" white working class Trump supporter who is apparently so disillusioned with the system they would rather elect a completely unqualified con-man to lead the nation to set fire to it we would be able to pay off our national debt by now.. OK I get it. White working class folks particularly in hard hit manufacturing/extraction regions are hurting. They are angry and they have rights to be angry about their economic situations. But the coal business was never going to be "forever", by definition coal is a finite resource. The company towns they worked in were not exactly worker friendly paradises. The jobs were dirty and dangerous and the companies running these mines and towns were indifferent to callous to the lives of those workers. And a lot of that attitude and policy was run on the so-called "pro-business" politics and politicians these folks elected for years. The real fixes for these regions is to re-tool in different economies but they don't want to hear that. They want the jobs of 20-50 years ago and it's not going to happen. So rather than electing a lying con-man who has absolutely no plan or policy that will re-create 1959 in rural areas their energy and anger is better spent electing politicians and supporting policies that will move them to the next level. Democrats are by far not perfect but Trump is a joke.
55
If Trump is elected President, “the millions of people who voted for him and believe that he represents their interests will learn what anyone who deals closely with him already knows—that he couldn’t care less about them.”
- Tony Schwartz, Trump's ghostwriter on Art of the Deal
- Tony Schwartz, Trump's ghostwriter on Art of the Deal
43
It's nice to see an article that doesn't portray Kentuckians as a bunch of idiots. There are always reasons behind how people make decisions. Can you imagine the constant barage of hate commercials from Trump? People who are hurting want change. They also have no idea that Trump does not give a hoot about them.
8
"it would be foolhardy to suggest that Trump cannot win. He can; and he can in part because of the liberal intellectual arrogance that dismisses the economic, social and cultural problems his rise has underscored. "
Chuck Todd yesterday on a talking head program pointed out that this election is 'the working class vs the elites', with it being easy enough to guess which candidate represents which group.
Yes I get that Hillary is the 'safe' choice. Yet I can't help but be vastly amused at the way Trump causes all the pundits to hyperventilate and rend their garments. The simple fact is, it is he who puts a smile on my face. The way he makes elites uncomfortable is priceless in itself. One feels they have it coming, as suggested in the Cohen quote above.
Chuck Todd yesterday on a talking head program pointed out that this election is 'the working class vs the elites', with it being easy enough to guess which candidate represents which group.
Yes I get that Hillary is the 'safe' choice. Yet I can't help but be vastly amused at the way Trump causes all the pundits to hyperventilate and rend their garments. The simple fact is, it is he who puts a smile on my face. The way he makes elites uncomfortable is priceless in itself. One feels they have it coming, as suggested in the Cohen quote above.
11
Wow, the people who have actual stuff to lose (money, asssets, stability, security, no addictions) are facing the wrath of those who have nothing to lose and so simply "don't care" about burning the country down with their vote for Trump. Talk about "class warfare"! What I want to ask these recently out of middle class folks, where is your spine? Why are you looking to Obama or Clintons or even more stupidly, Trump, to come rescue you? Look at the parts of the country that are doing well. They are not dependent on dying industries and old ways of doing things. People of Appalachia and other similar rural run down towns- educate yourselves, stop using drugs or abusing your body in other ways, be entrepreneurial, invent new industries, pioneeer new ways of defining what it means to be happy, not just rich. The answer lies in imagination and hard work with govt giving them a hand up but not a hand out, it does not lie in the cynicism and resignation of folks who simply want to blow up the world out of their own ignorant selfishness.
28
Brilliant, and terrifying analysis. Thank you for boots on the ground reporting, Mr.. Cohen.
This presidential campaign is not rational, it is tribal, so,,, hoping for Trump supporters to see the light, because of "his version of Vietnam" no consequences if he were to shoot someone on Broadway, admiring Putin, insulting parents of a dead soldier, everything Krugman, Brooks, George Will, Friedman, etc., write about his disgusting political and personal profile, is futile. The more outrageous His statements, ,the higher he goes in the polls.
The issue I think, is --- to all the latte liberals along the American shore, all the Republican legislators who gridlocked your checks and balances governance, all the lobbyists, microsecond stock traders, disproportionately wealthy folks, shame on you for leaving out so many Americans, of whatever color or ethnicity, from realizing the American dream.
This presidential campaign is not rational, it is tribal, so,,, hoping for Trump supporters to see the light, because of "his version of Vietnam" no consequences if he were to shoot someone on Broadway, admiring Putin, insulting parents of a dead soldier, everything Krugman, Brooks, George Will, Friedman, etc., write about his disgusting political and personal profile, is futile. The more outrageous His statements, ,the higher he goes in the polls.
The issue I think, is --- to all the latte liberals along the American shore, all the Republican legislators who gridlocked your checks and balances governance, all the lobbyists, microsecond stock traders, disproportionately wealthy folks, shame on you for leaving out so many Americans, of whatever color or ethnicity, from realizing the American dream.
10
This is an interesting article but, if you really want to understand Appalachia and the culture of the people who live there read "Hillbilly Elegy" by J.D. Vance. Told by someone born and raised in the area, it goes in depth into the lives of these people. It is scorchingly honest and although sympathetic does not give a flattering picture of the culture.
27
This polarization in this country just gets more and more entrenched. Maybe no Democrat, however gifted a politician, could win these people over. Starting to blame Hillary less and less for this deplorable state of affairs. What perfect symmetry that Roger Ailes, who did so much to degrade politics in this country is advising this rough beast slouching toward Jerusalem.
12
So I wonder why these people couldn't be subsidized? I assume that they or their children can change and learn how to do new work. I can imagine how horrifying it must be for them. The Republicans would never vote to help them out, but the Dems could and should.
13
Interesting. Why don't they? They support subsidies for so much else.
2
Democrats, with all their faults, were the only party fighting for hundreds of billions of dollars in infrastructure spending during the early part of the recession; the only party that has fought for, AND/OR voted for an increase in the minimum wage (the last taking place during Nancy Pelosi's reign in the mid 2000s); the only party fighting for union rights (see the chart of average wages vs. level of union membership in this country; and the only party fighting to help disadvantaged people get some kind of healthcare coverage. Do people forget that Obama only agreed to extend the Bush tax cuts to America's richest, because the GOP-led Congress wouldn't vote to extend unemployment benefits without that 'compromise'. It is no secret that Americans don't have good information on which to make decision (our media is a joke), but quit equating the two parties - they are NOT the same. You believe that at your own peril. No democratic President would have fired the PATCO air traffic controllers, precipitating the fall of unionization in this country. You praise this guy like he was Jesus, but how did that work out for us?
Many people wondered after the Baltimore riots how the rioters could destroy their own neighborhoods. I see the same thing going on with these people voting for Trump.
31
why would anyone care about kentucky - unless you live there - they are an endless drain on the rest of the country.
7
Earth to Kentucky: Nobody wants your coal. Dig as much as you want. Dig it now, you don't need to wait for Trump to be elected.
But WHO is going to BUY all that coal you dug? The mines closed up for a reason. Nobody wants to burn your coal anymore. Time to move on.
But WHO is going to BUY all that coal you dug? The mines closed up for a reason. Nobody wants to burn your coal anymore. Time to move on.
37
Einstein:
Why don't you get out of NYC and go to Kentucky and explain it to them?
Why don't you get out of NYC and go to Kentucky and explain it to them?
3
I would like to say one thing to all of these folks who are so sure that climate change is just a huge hoax designed to do them out of their jobs: in a few decades, when the Blue Ridge Mountains aren't blue anymore because the pine trees were wiped out by invasive insects and fungus, your kids and grandkids are going to ask themselves why you were so wrapped up in your own heartache that you couldn't pick yourselves up and think of what kind of future you would be leaving them in time to do something about it.
Anyone who is promising you your coal jobs back is lying, plain and simple.
Anyone who is promising you your coal jobs back is lying, plain and simple.
22
Voting for President is about voting for a vision even more than voting for policies. Presidents Kennedy and Reagan epitomized that reality. Though totally dystopian and largely predicated on lies, Trump does proffer a vision. Clinton, on the other hand, offers policies. Voters, especially those not already committed, will vote their gut more than they will vote an analytic evaluation of this policy and that.
6
This is a beautifully written article. I believe it accurately describes the problem and the failure of our government to respond to the dramatic change in the market for coal. Coal has been a mainstay of the global economy for centuries and it is being replaced as fa fuel for electric power generation by natural gas which seems to be flowing, abundant, cheap and much cleaner than coal. Keeping coal combustion clean has been a challenging engineering problems as can be witness by the dams of ash and mountains of sulfur that have been extracted.
We have also known for decades that burning coal, oil, and natural gas creates gasses that have cause the atmosphere to behave like a greenhouse and have been warming the Earth because the natural absorbing sinks of the Earth cannot keep up. The big concern is thawing the Arctic permafrost that could cause the release of millions of tons of frozen methane and trigger runaway global warming which could increase the acidification of the ocean and flood many of our most populous cities with rising sea levels.
We have been in denial too long and it is time to stop lying to ourselves and use our government to create new industries to create electricity and heat without fossil fuels.
I suggest that coal country people take up the offer of Mrs. C to give priority to creating jobs in industries that can replace fossil fuels and in the meanwhile provide the essential health and education services to prepare families for a new world.
We have also known for decades that burning coal, oil, and natural gas creates gasses that have cause the atmosphere to behave like a greenhouse and have been warming the Earth because the natural absorbing sinks of the Earth cannot keep up. The big concern is thawing the Arctic permafrost that could cause the release of millions of tons of frozen methane and trigger runaway global warming which could increase the acidification of the ocean and flood many of our most populous cities with rising sea levels.
We have been in denial too long and it is time to stop lying to ourselves and use our government to create new industries to create electricity and heat without fossil fuels.
I suggest that coal country people take up the offer of Mrs. C to give priority to creating jobs in industries that can replace fossil fuels and in the meanwhile provide the essential health and education services to prepare families for a new world.
10
Not all the people in the Confederacy who supported slavery were racists. But they defended slavery for the same reason many folks in Appalachia support King Coal: it provided more than just jobs where there were none. It brought prosperity.
Before oil it was coal. And the United Mine Workers of America, which made sure mining paychecks and benefits reflected coal's economic value as it powered America's industry and electrification.
Prosperity isn't just money in pockets; it's also the culture that comes when folks don't constantly struggle for survival, and it's the towns and cities where culture flourishes. Regional prosperity becomes a way of life, a homeland with deep roots and an identity that's pride of place when people don't leave to find work elsewhere.
Coal's dominance and miners' paychecks smothered any economic diversification and flattened social mobility. Families were multi-generational miners, communities thrived on union wages. Life was good in King Coal's empire.
Then it wasn't when outsiders mumbling about global warming and clean air standards snatched away King Coal's crown and the abundance it brought.
Trump says he's good at cutting deals, which he's even better at not keeping.
His deal: give me your vote because you're angrier than smart. Capsizing the boat we're in won't help you any but at least you'll get even with those outsiders.
Coal's not coming back.
Denial is a lousy plan for the future and lousier way to vote.
Before oil it was coal. And the United Mine Workers of America, which made sure mining paychecks and benefits reflected coal's economic value as it powered America's industry and electrification.
Prosperity isn't just money in pockets; it's also the culture that comes when folks don't constantly struggle for survival, and it's the towns and cities where culture flourishes. Regional prosperity becomes a way of life, a homeland with deep roots and an identity that's pride of place when people don't leave to find work elsewhere.
Coal's dominance and miners' paychecks smothered any economic diversification and flattened social mobility. Families were multi-generational miners, communities thrived on union wages. Life was good in King Coal's empire.
Then it wasn't when outsiders mumbling about global warming and clean air standards snatched away King Coal's crown and the abundance it brought.
Trump says he's good at cutting deals, which he's even better at not keeping.
His deal: give me your vote because you're angrier than smart. Capsizing the boat we're in won't help you any but at least you'll get even with those outsiders.
Coal's not coming back.
Denial is a lousy plan for the future and lousier way to vote.
40
It takes a naive journalist to profess surprise, at this stage of the game, that a progressive Democrat won't be carrying Kentucky. This just in: The Clinton campaign long ago factored THAT into its path to 270 electoral votes.
And I must say I wonder why I never saw any analysis in the '80s that conveyed to the rest of America the deep and justified contempt many African Americans had for Reagan. I imagine the reason would also explain why, in this year's campaign, I have yet to encounter reportage that lets African Americans -- for that matter, Mexican Americans or Muslim Americans -- speak unchallenged and at length about THEIR warranted fear of and revulsion for Trump. That is, in contrast to the barrage of articles, including Mr. Cohen's, suggesting that the willful ignorance and unchecked bigotry of an alarming cohort of the white working class is to be witnessed rather than condemned.
And I must say I wonder why I never saw any analysis in the '80s that conveyed to the rest of America the deep and justified contempt many African Americans had for Reagan. I imagine the reason would also explain why, in this year's campaign, I have yet to encounter reportage that lets African Americans -- for that matter, Mexican Americans or Muslim Americans -- speak unchallenged and at length about THEIR warranted fear of and revulsion for Trump. That is, in contrast to the barrage of articles, including Mr. Cohen's, suggesting that the willful ignorance and unchecked bigotry of an alarming cohort of the white working class is to be witnessed rather than condemned.
13
Yes.
This a thousand times.
All this bending over backwards.
All these unchallenged statements that Trump is a straight-talker (he isn't! he constantly says things and then denies he meant what he said! he also daily makes claims that can be shown 100% false with a quick fact check or review of what he said previously. how is that "shooting from the hip"?).
I also am sick of the implication that "liberal intellectuals" are unaware of what is going on economically in places like Kentucky. Ummm, I'm a college educated progressive and I voted for Bernie in the primaries and he campaigned on these issues. However, the progressive proposals to fight economic disparity are not Donald Trump's. The democratic platform does much much more to address rebuilding infrastructure, rebooting economies dependent on shriveled industries, sponsoring education, tackling the addiction problems so evident in this article (oh I suppose that is somehow Obamas fault too), and ensuring safety nets than anything in the GOP platform. How do these folks think Trump is going to save them?
This a thousand times.
All this bending over backwards.
All these unchallenged statements that Trump is a straight-talker (he isn't! he constantly says things and then denies he meant what he said! he also daily makes claims that can be shown 100% false with a quick fact check or review of what he said previously. how is that "shooting from the hip"?).
I also am sick of the implication that "liberal intellectuals" are unaware of what is going on economically in places like Kentucky. Ummm, I'm a college educated progressive and I voted for Bernie in the primaries and he campaigned on these issues. However, the progressive proposals to fight economic disparity are not Donald Trump's. The democratic platform does much much more to address rebuilding infrastructure, rebooting economies dependent on shriveled industries, sponsoring education, tackling the addiction problems so evident in this article (oh I suppose that is somehow Obamas fault too), and ensuring safety nets than anything in the GOP platform. How do these folks think Trump is going to save them?
11
And yet Robert, it was only 8 years ago that Hillary was campaigning hard for these folks. Remember they were " hard working white people"?
1
Ignorance and bigotry are wrong no matter who tries to exploit them. That goes for the apparently permanently Willie Hortonized Republican Party, Hillary Clinton, and, especially, Trump.
Mr. Cohen may be right to be empathetic towards those in the Appalachians whose lives have been so undone by the decline in the industry that has sustained them. He is wrong to let pass that this decline
has been ignored by the elites and that somehow Trump will speak truth to
the powers that have laid these good people low. The truth that will help
these people the most is that their way forward does not pass through the mine face or on the barren mountaintop.Trump will cause great harm to our country. I am not at all sanguine about a Trump presidency being controlled by the solid institutional structure of the United States. It is time for all of us who know better to say so. We can afford to be evenhanded when Mrs. Clinton is inaugurated.
has been ignored by the elites and that somehow Trump will speak truth to
the powers that have laid these good people low. The truth that will help
these people the most is that their way forward does not pass through the mine face or on the barren mountaintop.Trump will cause great harm to our country. I am not at all sanguine about a Trump presidency being controlled by the solid institutional structure of the United States. It is time for all of us who know better to say so. We can afford to be evenhanded when Mrs. Clinton is inaugurated.
4
“But when you’ve been on $70,000 a year in coal mines, and your life’s pulled out from under you, who else can you be mad at but the government?”The frustration of these people, whether they are in Kentucky, or Texas, or throughout the Midwest, is acute. They are looking for “someone who will articulate the truth of their disenfranchisement,” as Webb put it.
Imagine that! This white working class community is beginning to experience a little bit of what the black community has had to live with since the Emancipation Proclamation. And of course that's unacceptable to them because white Americans count more than black Americans in their mind's eye.
Imagine that! This white working class community is beginning to experience a little bit of what the black community has had to live with since the Emancipation Proclamation. And of course that's unacceptable to them because white Americans count more than black Americans in their mind's eye.
10
Maybe they're aren't as nasty as you Jack. Unless we make the pie higher( thanks to W), there is only so much pie. Most people regardless of race just want a slice.
1
I am so tired of hearing justifications and explanations for the Trump vote. Of course I sympathize with those facing the worst effects of income inequality, but inequality is a problem created in large measure by Republican policies that Democrats have stupidly accepted and supported. Trump has no plans to address this scourge. Truth be told, he has no plans at all. Frustration breeds not only anger but unreason, as at least one of your interviewees realizes. How about writing an article about the reasonable anger of those of us furious with Republican obstructionism or their slash and burn technique, including efforts to gut President Obama's climate policies, denigrate social programs, cut budgets for scientific research, and impede action on the Zika virus?
25
Is coal going to go completely out of use? Probably not but the demand for it will likely decrease, a lot. Coal is a portable fuel that requires no disposal after use, no energy storage devices to make it useful at any time, and is the most abundant of the fossil fuels on the planet. It can be used to make many chemical products, and converted into coke is a major component of steel. Appalachia is vulnerable because it offers so few opportunities for better paying jobs and fewer than it once did for a whole lot of reasons and it has only a limited number of resources that can bring any substantial returns on investments and few industries. Coal is a commodity, so like oil, it is not a reliable generator of wealth. That is one reason that people in coal producing areas tend to not get rich and do not seem able to use the wealth from coal to generate more diverse and prosperous economies. Coal miners have suffered from miserable and dangerous working conditions despite all the efforts made to make it far safer largely because it's such a unpredictable way to make money.
1
My father always said, "If you want to know, ask." And Roger Cohen asked real people in KY trying to eek out an existence after being abandoned by big businesses and corporations seeking cheaper labor and bigger profits elsewhere. Articles like this are far more helpful at explaining Trump support than the endless armchair horse-race poll analyses.
As I read this, I was thinking that the folks interviewed in KY are not much different from a lot of people here in the rural sections of central NY, where the jobs have gone elsewhere, middle-and working-class people are downward mobile, meth and drugs are rampant, and too many little tucked-away NY towns are looking like "The Last Picture Show." It is truly sad.
But what I do not understand is (1) why these suffering former middle-class people, who have been dropped on their heads by big business, choose not to blame the corporations that abandoned them and made their lives miserable, and (2) why they gravitate to the Republican party that consistently aided and abetted big business and the wealthy while refusing to do anything to help these struggling communities and people, including fixing our crumbling infrastructure which would provide jobs.
Is it as simple as the Fox News and right-wing radio propaganda, which: (1) keeps dividing us into white vs. nonwhite; and (2) tells endless lies to my husband's rural Eastern Shore relatives and everyone else about just who to blame for their lot in life?
More interviews please
As I read this, I was thinking that the folks interviewed in KY are not much different from a lot of people here in the rural sections of central NY, where the jobs have gone elsewhere, middle-and working-class people are downward mobile, meth and drugs are rampant, and too many little tucked-away NY towns are looking like "The Last Picture Show." It is truly sad.
But what I do not understand is (1) why these suffering former middle-class people, who have been dropped on their heads by big business, choose not to blame the corporations that abandoned them and made their lives miserable, and (2) why they gravitate to the Republican party that consistently aided and abetted big business and the wealthy while refusing to do anything to help these struggling communities and people, including fixing our crumbling infrastructure which would provide jobs.
Is it as simple as the Fox News and right-wing radio propaganda, which: (1) keeps dividing us into white vs. nonwhite; and (2) tells endless lies to my husband's rural Eastern Shore relatives and everyone else about just who to blame for their lot in life?
More interviews please
19
Right.
And when Hillary Clinton was a NY senator, did she not travel extensively in upstate and western NY and listen to these constituents and help legislate to address their concerns? She did! There was a lot of reporting about how her advocacy for and outreach to the down & out parts of NY state was critical to her election and reelection as NY Senator!
Can we please educate the thinking people of Kentucky about Clinton's record?
And when Hillary Clinton was a NY senator, did she not travel extensively in upstate and western NY and listen to these constituents and help legislate to address their concerns? She did! There was a lot of reporting about how her advocacy for and outreach to the down & out parts of NY state was critical to her election and reelection as NY Senator!
Can we please educate the thinking people of Kentucky about Clinton's record?
3
Obviously, when your life has been wrecked because the wealthy 1% have rigged the system, the right thing to do is to vote for a billionaire.
43
I've pointing out the irony of this for quite a while. Thanks for posting this.
4
Is the right thing to do to vote for the multimillionaire?
1
Does Cohen feel good about exposing the overwhelming ignorance that pervades this entire community? He should feel ashamed. These people are truly pitiful. Lazy and addicted to drugs and coal, but pitiful too. Trump would describe every person interviewed in this story as a loser.
8
One tenth of Mexico's population immigrated to the US; surely, these native language speakers could have moved to California in the 80s and 90s and worked construction and field work, taken advantage of community college, and improved their lot. Lots of Americans move for work. One quarter of Erie County, NY left for work since 1975. The desperation of these depressed places warps perspectives. Why don't reporters ask why these people don't leave?
15
That anger simmers. It’s directed at Obama, and by extension Clinton, and by further extension a Democratic Party that, as the former Democratic senator Jim Webb from Virginia told me, “has now built its constituency based on ethnic groups other than white working people.” The frustration of these people, whether they are in Kentucky, or Texas, or throughout the Midwest, is acute. They are looking for “someone who will articulate the truth of their disenfranchisement,” as Webb put it.
__________
It’s a matter of perspective.
As someone said or wrote: “When you’re accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression.”
__________
It’s a matter of perspective.
As someone said or wrote: “When you’re accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression.”
10
So, what have the Republicans done (McConnel) to help? Here is what Obama tried to do to help and what he faced:
"A massive $3 billion package to help struggling coal communities transition to a new economy is sitting unappropriated in the Republican-led Congress. "
https://insideclimatenews.org/news/23062015/aid-package-coal-country-goe...
Also, http://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/257038-obama-gives-145m-for...
Here is a quote from the above article: "But while the administration celebrated the POWER grants, they also continued their push for POWER Plus, which Obama proposed last year to pump $10 billion into coal communities, workers and technology, including carbon capture and sequestration....And so we are waiting for Congress to act.”
"A massive $3 billion package to help struggling coal communities transition to a new economy is sitting unappropriated in the Republican-led Congress. "
https://insideclimatenews.org/news/23062015/aid-package-coal-country-goe...
Also, http://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/257038-obama-gives-145m-for...
Here is a quote from the above article: "But while the administration celebrated the POWER grants, they also continued their push for POWER Plus, which Obama proposed last year to pump $10 billion into coal communities, workers and technology, including carbon capture and sequestration....And so we are waiting for Congress to act.”
16
Facts.
A more responsible journalist would include such facts.
A more responsible journalist would include such facts.
3
The people of Appalachia bemoaning the demise of coal are analogous to people in New England in the 1800's indignant at the declining whale oil industry. For the good of the planet coal needs to subside and then go away.
Along comes Donald Trump. He tells desperate people he will reopen closed coal mines and give them their early 20th century existence back. What a despicable tragedy that he would offer such nonsense to these Americans.
Donald Trump is a sociopathic charlatan. It is pathetic to observe voters continue to say "he tells it like it is".
Along comes Donald Trump. He tells desperate people he will reopen closed coal mines and give them their early 20th century existence back. What a despicable tragedy that he would offer such nonsense to these Americans.
Donald Trump is a sociopathic charlatan. It is pathetic to observe voters continue to say "he tells it like it is".
13
And even more pathetic, no wait, it is enraging, to read articles where journalists repeat that Trump is straight-talking when he is not. That is not an opinion - the man contradicts himsrkf constantly and every day is caught out on lies.
Journalists, stop repeating this nonsense! Printing quotes from Trump supporters is one thing. To write as if such claims that Trump "shoots from the hip" or "tells it like it is" are supported by reality is disgusting and irresponsible.
Journalists, stop repeating this nonsense! Printing quotes from Trump supporters is one thing. To write as if such claims that Trump "shoots from the hip" or "tells it like it is" are supported by reality is disgusting and irresponsible.
5
Ignorant by choice - are these even Americans? If so, we desperately need more Hispanics and Immigrants to raise civility and IQ in the US.
8
Nice balance to the article, I wish we could see more like it from any news outlet.
2
With all due respect, this article is predictable, cliched, and reveals no new insight: "The Aggrieved Always-Downtrodden Who Will Only Suffer More". No mystery. I've read this story a thousand times.
In December 2015, a major international newspaper (not this one) held its annual event where leaders in all sections of the publication---editorial, advertising, tech---reviewed their work of the past year, what goals they achieved and didn't, and what their plans were going forward.
Eventually, they discussed politics and somebody brought up Donald Trump. The table lit up.
Someone from advertising sternly warned everyone about Trump. He relayed a story of attending a dinner party in Upper Saddle River, NJ at the home of an affluent elderly Jewish couple (50-60s) who said Trump had their vote.
"Why on Earth would you vote for Donald Trump?" he implored.
"Because he'll get American back on track again," was their reply.
THAT's who I'd like to read about. And he insisted he was bumping into LOTS of un-stereotypical (potential) Trump voters: affluent, white, older Democrats.
Someone, for the love of God, explain this to me.
In December 2015, a major international newspaper (not this one) held its annual event where leaders in all sections of the publication---editorial, advertising, tech---reviewed their work of the past year, what goals they achieved and didn't, and what their plans were going forward.
Eventually, they discussed politics and somebody brought up Donald Trump. The table lit up.
Someone from advertising sternly warned everyone about Trump. He relayed a story of attending a dinner party in Upper Saddle River, NJ at the home of an affluent elderly Jewish couple (50-60s) who said Trump had their vote.
"Why on Earth would you vote for Donald Trump?" he implored.
"Because he'll get American back on track again," was their reply.
THAT's who I'd like to read about. And he insisted he was bumping into LOTS of un-stereotypical (potential) Trump voters: affluent, white, older Democrats.
Someone, for the love of God, explain this to me.
6
A few things pop up in my head while I read this.
First off in many cases they did this to themselves. Generations of electing conservative mayors, governors, senators, and representatives have given them states that take more than they put in. Add that to the fact that climate change will kill and imperil millions of Americans, and all they care about is making money digging up coal.
Evolve and adapt, the country isn't and shouldn't bend to the whims of swaths of white communities that don't adapt or educate. If you can't make it, do whatever it takes to keep going.
The major engines of America are urban areas. And anyone with a head on their shoulders moves to the cities where opportunity is. If they want to keep the bright young people in their state they should stop cutting taxes which allow their schools to fall apart, no one with any means will opt to send their children to bad schools.
In short, get good or don't complain.
First off in many cases they did this to themselves. Generations of electing conservative mayors, governors, senators, and representatives have given them states that take more than they put in. Add that to the fact that climate change will kill and imperil millions of Americans, and all they care about is making money digging up coal.
Evolve and adapt, the country isn't and shouldn't bend to the whims of swaths of white communities that don't adapt or educate. If you can't make it, do whatever it takes to keep going.
The major engines of America are urban areas. And anyone with a head on their shoulders moves to the cities where opportunity is. If they want to keep the bright young people in their state they should stop cutting taxes which allow their schools to fall apart, no one with any means will opt to send their children to bad schools.
In short, get good or don't complain.
7
I guess you missed the part where they said they voted for Obama last time around. Coal country is labor union country which used to be Democrat country.
7
Mr. Cohen - this is a good piece of reporting and many across the nation feel the way these Kentuckians do - deserted by the Democratic Party and hoping that a shoot-from-the-hip New Yorker will somehow rearrange the deck chairs. Still others are looking to third party choices, not being able to bear either "standard bearer". This is the year of the outsider in politics, and it's a shame we couldn't have had a Sanders-Trump race, especially since Sanders ran much better against Trump than Clinton does, poll-wise. These sentiments will not go away as long as our government is basically owned by corporate interests and the rich, and the future doesn't look so great.
3
What do these folk think of Trump's views s of Vladimir Putin? Do they just brush that off?
6
They made it pretty clear they don't care.
They may or may not have an understanding of how Putin operates. When Trump says Putin has good poll numbers and his supporters cheer, I wonder if they realize most Russians are terrified to answer any other way about their KGB dictator. Look what happens to anybody who speaks out against Putin.
It takes one nationalistic authoritarian narcissist to admire another, I suppose.
They may or may not have an understanding of how Putin operates. When Trump says Putin has good poll numbers and his supporters cheer, I wonder if they realize most Russians are terrified to answer any other way about their KGB dictator. Look what happens to anybody who speaks out against Putin.
It takes one nationalistic authoritarian narcissist to admire another, I suppose.
1
The author seems unaware of the three primary - and quite different- cultural areas present in Kentucky. Paris and Hazard are unlike each other in cultural origins, politics, and industrial flow, and the two cities lie in two distinctly separate regions of Kentucky. Once again, a New York Times writer lumps Kentuckians into one pot of ill-educated, frustrated, and economically downtrodden burgoo.
A few years ago a NYT photographer stood in front of a vibrant, active, well-kept public library in Middlesboro, Kentucky - but with his back to it - and took a closely-cropped photo of a bedraggled cinema marquee across the street. The picture was published as proof that southeastern Kentucky is a string of broken ghost towns populated by members of the (largely-fictionalized) Kallikak family. This article seems to be the same type of journalism, in which the image is cropped to fit the reporter's pre-shaped idea.
I find myself wondering how different the article might have been had the author walked literally one block the to the newly-renovated and expanded Paris-Bourbon County library (which appeared this month on the cover of the national American Libraries designer's showcase publication) and talked to ten or twenty people.
The timbre of the article might not have been different in the long run, but Cohen might have at least learned that the hallmark wooden fencing used on farms throughout the Bluegrass region (in which Paris lies) is post-and-board rather than picket.
A few years ago a NYT photographer stood in front of a vibrant, active, well-kept public library in Middlesboro, Kentucky - but with his back to it - and took a closely-cropped photo of a bedraggled cinema marquee across the street. The picture was published as proof that southeastern Kentucky is a string of broken ghost towns populated by members of the (largely-fictionalized) Kallikak family. This article seems to be the same type of journalism, in which the image is cropped to fit the reporter's pre-shaped idea.
I find myself wondering how different the article might have been had the author walked literally one block the to the newly-renovated and expanded Paris-Bourbon County library (which appeared this month on the cover of the national American Libraries designer's showcase publication) and talked to ten or twenty people.
The timbre of the article might not have been different in the long run, but Cohen might have at least learned that the hallmark wooden fencing used on farms throughout the Bluegrass region (in which Paris lies) is post-and-board rather than picket.
7
Let reckless, reactionary finger-pointing give way to foresight and innovative problem solving:
Moving a a nation, and ultimately the world, away from a whole industry commodity like coal/fossil fuels - ones which whole towns and regions rely on - should be done tactfully. It should be a conversation with the stakeholders, and include an actionable exit-plan. Its a delicate dance that can create a vacuum and blowback like this if done without care to replace the bad with equal good. Our government should treat industry-blasting shifts in policy as delicately as we would and should with removing U.S presence from freshly leaderless, post- war-torn nations, like Iraq or Afghanistan - not to say the process itself is entirely similar, but the metaphor is real.
Its precisely because that did not happen for coal, that we now read about folks who are so desperate, they'd knowingly put themselves and our country in harm's way if the gamble might bring coal back. What is truly needed in the case of Kentucky coal towns, is an innovative mindset and some serious investors - TRANSFORM THE BUSINESS of coal mining companies into government-backed alternative energy farms and generators. Look to science and policy. Let reckless, reactionary finger-pointing give way to foresight and innovative problem solving.
Moving a a nation, and ultimately the world, away from a whole industry commodity like coal/fossil fuels - ones which whole towns and regions rely on - should be done tactfully. It should be a conversation with the stakeholders, and include an actionable exit-plan. Its a delicate dance that can create a vacuum and blowback like this if done without care to replace the bad with equal good. Our government should treat industry-blasting shifts in policy as delicately as we would and should with removing U.S presence from freshly leaderless, post- war-torn nations, like Iraq or Afghanistan - not to say the process itself is entirely similar, but the metaphor is real.
Its precisely because that did not happen for coal, that we now read about folks who are so desperate, they'd knowingly put themselves and our country in harm's way if the gamble might bring coal back. What is truly needed in the case of Kentucky coal towns, is an innovative mindset and some serious investors - TRANSFORM THE BUSINESS of coal mining companies into government-backed alternative energy farms and generators. Look to science and policy. Let reckless, reactionary finger-pointing give way to foresight and innovative problem solving.
3
The US ratified the Universal Declaration of Human Rights in 1948. The signatories effectively committed themselves to provide a living wage job to anyone who wants to work. In the 68 years since ratification, neither party has made that an explcit plank in their domestic platform. It's hard to understand why since nothing would spur economic growth while reducing income equality faster. Meanwhile the failure to make good on the commitment paves the way for a demogogue like Donald Trump.
2
I've seen this before, in Southern Oregon in the early '90s. The employees were shiftless and lazy, and if you could find a job, minimum wage was all you could get. If you were willing to show up and work diligently, tuff. You got minimum wage right along with the shiftless, lazy ones.
Drugs, you say? There were drugs a-plenty, from alcohol to meth to marijuana. Many people worked to try and better themselves, then hit a threshold, gave up, and got high. Some broke out of the pattern, but most hit their threshold eventually, and some (including myself) left.
Here's an idea. Drugs are not inherently expensive. Between automation and offshoring, jobs aren't coming back. Why not just let people get high and relax, and leave the work to those who want to get ahead and are willing to work for it. Then they could unwind that stupid cops and robbers game being played; all it does is divert money to criminals, keep the jails full, and militarizes the police. The Romans knew that idled workers need their bread and circuses. Let the people have their food stamps, TV, and drugs. Problem solved.
Drugs, you say? There were drugs a-plenty, from alcohol to meth to marijuana. Many people worked to try and better themselves, then hit a threshold, gave up, and got high. Some broke out of the pattern, but most hit their threshold eventually, and some (including myself) left.
Here's an idea. Drugs are not inherently expensive. Between automation and offshoring, jobs aren't coming back. Why not just let people get high and relax, and leave the work to those who want to get ahead and are willing to work for it. Then they could unwind that stupid cops and robbers game being played; all it does is divert money to criminals, keep the jails full, and militarizes the police. The Romans knew that idled workers need their bread and circuses. Let the people have their food stamps, TV, and drugs. Problem solved.
3
Ah, yes, ignorance is bliss...or so these Kentuckians hope.
6
I wish the reporters would ask these people, don't you know that he is a con man, and he is highly unlikely to bring back jobs ? and that you will be worse off ?
and that he is a total con man and his "university" cheats widows ?
how can these people, who pretend to be moral and ethical, support someone who steals from widows ?
i would like the Times to ask them that directly
and that he is a total con man and his "university" cheats widows ?
how can these people, who pretend to be moral and ethical, support someone who steals from widows ?
i would like the Times to ask them that directly
15
This is a state that keeps re-electing Mitch McConnel.
17
Instead of "Waiting for Godot", why doesn't some who CAN see the forest for the trees, take pity on these sad, unsophisticated, provincial (through no fault of their own), people and offer some "retraining" appropriate for 2016 "remuneration".
7
Because their states are run by Republicans selling snake oil.
8
these sad folks need to wake up that COAL is OVER.
7
These people are hurting, and I feel for them, but they have bought into the GOP's narrative that ANYTHING that works against them is coming straight from Obama. However, a single President - especially with a House of Representatives controlled by the opposing party - cannot do EVERYTHING that's either good or bad!
Can anyone in this article name what the GOP has done recently FOR THEM?
What jobs bills have they passed?
What education bills have they passed?
What health care bills have they passed?
What drug prevention efforts have they made?
What infrastructure investments have they proposed?
What tax breaks have they enacted, aside from helping the rich?
The GOP is as responsible as anyone - perhaps more so - because they have chosen to dig in their heels with a black President, instead of accepting that he IS President, and working to help these folks through legislation - which, with their overwhelming majorities at many levels of government, should have been more than possible - and happens to be the jobs for which they are very highly paid.
And has anybody here asked how Trump will bring jobs, when his entire lifetime has been a virtual user's manual of outsourcing, stiffing those who work for him, and hiring cheap and even illegal labor?
I'm sorry, but it's hard to feel sympathy for anybody who says, "he'll probably get us killed" yet still plans to vote for Trump...you want to die?...then do it on your own dime, but don't take the whole nation with you.
Can anyone in this article name what the GOP has done recently FOR THEM?
What jobs bills have they passed?
What education bills have they passed?
What health care bills have they passed?
What drug prevention efforts have they made?
What infrastructure investments have they proposed?
What tax breaks have they enacted, aside from helping the rich?
The GOP is as responsible as anyone - perhaps more so - because they have chosen to dig in their heels with a black President, instead of accepting that he IS President, and working to help these folks through legislation - which, with their overwhelming majorities at many levels of government, should have been more than possible - and happens to be the jobs for which they are very highly paid.
And has anybody here asked how Trump will bring jobs, when his entire lifetime has been a virtual user's manual of outsourcing, stiffing those who work for him, and hiring cheap and even illegal labor?
I'm sorry, but it's hard to feel sympathy for anybody who says, "he'll probably get us killed" yet still plans to vote for Trump...you want to die?...then do it on your own dime, but don't take the whole nation with you.
19
"America is now tribal, with each tribe imbibing its own social-media fed ranting."
Let me be clear as a Pendleton County stream: It is easier to tell Times readers what to think and what to believe, than those ostensibly dumb rednecks. There ain't a thought in this comments column that hasn't been written in the Times a hundred times before. This place is a coffee-klatsch echo chamber of self-professed "liberals" who cannot accept any viewpoint outside of their fragile myopias.
Y'all read the Times and accept it as the authoritative word on culture south of the Mason-Dixon line. Never mind that you're not willing to let anyone grace your columns who is a resident of Appalachia. Oh, on occasion you'll find someone willing to apologize to New York about how backward we are. Now, the intelligent, elite, liberal readers of this august paper now condemn half a nation as mouth-breathing idiots. Never mind that you've never been there (God no, those people down there are scary, haven't you seen Deliverance?)
You have become, to a letter, the quintessence of the intolerance you superficially claim to criticize. You judge hundreds of millions of people based on nothing more than an article about three of them. Where are those vaunted critical thinking skills to which you Northerners lay claim?
Small words now: you are no better than the people you write about. You think only as you have been taught to think, and you do not know the people that you criticize.
Let me be clear as a Pendleton County stream: It is easier to tell Times readers what to think and what to believe, than those ostensibly dumb rednecks. There ain't a thought in this comments column that hasn't been written in the Times a hundred times before. This place is a coffee-klatsch echo chamber of self-professed "liberals" who cannot accept any viewpoint outside of their fragile myopias.
Y'all read the Times and accept it as the authoritative word on culture south of the Mason-Dixon line. Never mind that you're not willing to let anyone grace your columns who is a resident of Appalachia. Oh, on occasion you'll find someone willing to apologize to New York about how backward we are. Now, the intelligent, elite, liberal readers of this august paper now condemn half a nation as mouth-breathing idiots. Never mind that you've never been there (God no, those people down there are scary, haven't you seen Deliverance?)
You have become, to a letter, the quintessence of the intolerance you superficially claim to criticize. You judge hundreds of millions of people based on nothing more than an article about three of them. Where are those vaunted critical thinking skills to which you Northerners lay claim?
Small words now: you are no better than the people you write about. You think only as you have been taught to think, and you do not know the people that you criticize.
6
...like Alfred told Batman in The Dark Knight: "Some men just want to watch the world burn"
Trump voters.
Trump voters.
16
Does the term, "suicide voter," ring any bells?
10
Trump's "going to get us killed", but they "don't care".
Got it.
Got it.
8
Roger Cohen's words: "Straight talk . . . the kind of talk they recognize in Donald J. Trump;" "the blame is aimed at airy-fairy liberals;" "Far from the metropolitan hubs inhabited by the main beneficiaries of globalization's churn;" "many people feel . . . estranged from a prevailing liberal urban ethos." Mr. Cohen, you work for the New York Times so you must spend some time here. Is that the way you really see your fellow New Yorkers, people who don't talk straight, are airy-fairy, are receiving some kind of benefit from globalization (school teachers? nurses? home health aides? grocery store workers? And what is an urban ethos? I think it's cooperation, support, making it work, getting to work, doing your work and taking care of your family just like in Kentucky. Our wages are also stagnant and our cost of living is outrageous, but nobody here would even think of listening to Donald J. Trump.
7
I agree with everything you say, right on, until you say nobody in NYC would support Trump. Unfortunately that is just not true.
Other than that, bravo!
Other than that, bravo!
It's interesting that these small, mostly white towns think of themselves as real America. A while back the NY Times ran a 538 piece on 'what is a typical American town?' It was diverse, suburban, and more educated than these towns. If they truly are 'the most American" they should embrace that spirit and improvise or do something enterprising. How about opening a vineyard? Or, heaven forbid, go to college.
8
Keeping one's head above water financially is devastating to the folks in Paris, Ky and, perhaps to a lesser degree, to urban Americans throughout the country. It's easy for me to say think twice before you react to your plight by voting for Trump. But consider this. You say he shoots from the hip. I say he shoots from the lip.
6
What's most pathetic about the people who say they'll vote Trump knowing what a disaster he is, is that Trump does not give a rat's hind quarters about any of these people. He doesn't know them, their lives, or their concerns, and he doesn't care.
Perfect example of the modern and more dangerous P.T. Barnum and a whole horde of the "sucker[s] born every minute."
Perfect example of the modern and more dangerous P.T. Barnum and a whole horde of the "sucker[s] born every minute."
6
The salvation is crystal meth, not Jesus and not Trump. You can smell it from the highway. These folks left earth a while back.
6
“Trump’s going to get us killed, probably!” he told me. “But I’ll vote for him anyway over Hillary."
Unbelieveable. Just unbelieveable.
Unbelieveable. Just unbelieveable.
11
Trump does not "Tell it like it is." He "tells it" the way these people want to believe it.
7
Trump isn't the one who voted for or oversaw the bombing and/or invasion of seven countries, and wanted to bomb an eighth (Iran).
Voters who want peace can vote for Gary Johnson or they can stay home. Hillary is NOT the answer.
Voters who want peace can vote for Gary Johnson or they can stay home. Hillary is NOT the answer.
3
"Obama's probably never known hardship"... but Trump has? I don't get it.
13
And this journalist leaves this outrageous statement unchallenged, just as he repeats many of the other claims about Trump as if they are true! And the journalist writes as if liberals and progressives are unaware of these horrible problems in Kentucky and have done nothing, proposed nothing to address it - untrue. Republicans refused to pass bills in congress to aid in many of these challenges facing coal country.
2
"“We need Trump for a reasonable Supreme Court..." Hilarious!
8
Great article Roger - Thank you.
As an Obama Democrat (and a liberal who lives in the east coast), I can certainly identify with the pain that folks from the Midwest experience - and their craving for a change from BAU - (Business as Usual)
My choice is down to Gary Johnson and Jill Stein. I cannot never support Hillary (by extension the Clintons) for whom "rules" are applicable to everyone else but them!
Hopefully 2020/2024 will see better candidates from both Major parties - or, perhaos - a winning 3rd party candidate - who actually cares about ALL Americans - Not just people of Color A or Ethnicity B!
As an Obama Democrat (and a liberal who lives in the east coast), I can certainly identify with the pain that folks from the Midwest experience - and their craving for a change from BAU - (Business as Usual)
My choice is down to Gary Johnson and Jill Stein. I cannot never support Hillary (by extension the Clintons) for whom "rules" are applicable to everyone else but them!
Hopefully 2020/2024 will see better candidates from both Major parties - or, perhaos - a winning 3rd party candidate - who actually cares about ALL Americans - Not just people of Color A or Ethnicity B!
3
One word. Aleppo.
3
The coal jobs are sooooo in the past . People should just get over it and move on instead of believing in the lies spewed by Donald Trump ! He couldn't bring back the coal jobs even if it could be brought back . The man is bereft of ideas ! Just listen to him speak!
People just need to stop blaming this and that and him and her . Move out of your town if need be , retrain yourself if necessary but gosh please stop blaming Obama and coal !
People just need to stop blaming this and that and him and her . Move out of your town if need be , retrain yourself if necessary but gosh please stop blaming Obama and coal !
5
“...clean up the mess Obama has left us.”
There is the ignorance.
There is the ignorance.
14
Ignorance rears its ugly head-again. Appalachia is not America and maybe never was. And they're voting for Trump-how ironic. He's a New Yorker as I am. I'm voting for Hillary with no problem.
8
The Appalachian folks just want to blame someone, ANYONE for their travails. Coal went away because of economic reality. Gas will go the same way soon.
Obama is a good scapegoat so much venom is hurled in his direction. Thinking Trump is their savior is magical thinking at its best and if Trump is elected may truly get us all killed.
Obama is a good scapegoat so much venom is hurled in his direction. Thinking Trump is their savior is magical thinking at its best and if Trump is elected may truly get us all killed.
10
What ever happened to "ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country"? Why do these people think that Trump can or will do anything for them? I say take them on a road trip to the boardwalk in Atlantic City. Maybe that will change their minds.
8
Excellent point.
Trump really did great things for Atlantic City, didn't he?
Trump really did great things for Atlantic City, didn't he?
2
There’s nothing even slightly odd about Appalachian natives willing to accept the risk that Trump represents in order to compel change. For years, their reality has been engineered by elite establishment politicians on BOTH sides who have failed abysmally at helping them make that reality a positive one or even at defining a way forward to an American 21st Century of shared prosperity.
What’s odd is that establishment Republicans and numerous liberal strongholds aren’t, as well.
A vote for Hillary Clinton, the poster-child of elite, hyper-cynical establishmentarianism, is a vote for perpetuating our failed, frozen politics. Nothing will change. Nothing productive will come of it, and in four years were she elected she’d be as desperate to identify the legacy needle in a haystack of failures as Barack Obama is today.
Not much time remains before Election Day; but despite the imminence, a lot still can happen. Trump might lose it again and offend some immense part of America with his mouth, one or the other candidate could blow it badly in the debates, new and embarrassing (and possibly criminal) emails might surface that Mrs. Clinton thought were “deleted”; or something else could derail one campaign or the other. However, for the time being, Trump has clawed his way back to viability and a very big part of America is willing to toss the dice rather than tolerate four more years of bootless triangulation, a worsening economy, and no visible hope for the future.
What’s odd is that establishment Republicans and numerous liberal strongholds aren’t, as well.
A vote for Hillary Clinton, the poster-child of elite, hyper-cynical establishmentarianism, is a vote for perpetuating our failed, frozen politics. Nothing will change. Nothing productive will come of it, and in four years were she elected she’d be as desperate to identify the legacy needle in a haystack of failures as Barack Obama is today.
Not much time remains before Election Day; but despite the imminence, a lot still can happen. Trump might lose it again and offend some immense part of America with his mouth, one or the other candidate could blow it badly in the debates, new and embarrassing (and possibly criminal) emails might surface that Mrs. Clinton thought were “deleted”; or something else could derail one campaign or the other. However, for the time being, Trump has clawed his way back to viability and a very big part of America is willing to toss the dice rather than tolerate four more years of bootless triangulation, a worsening economy, and no visible hope for the future.
7
“Obama’s probably never known hardship." The irony of this statement seems to escape this man. President Obama, a half black man growing up with a single mother versus DJT growing up in affluence.
13
You'll notice this went completely unchallenged by this journalist. Who implies that anybody with liberal views is "airy fairy". Right. Liberal views are never shaped by hardships and surviving bad times.
What about the Great Depression and FDR's New Deal?
What about the Great Depression and FDR's New Deal?
4
"We need somebody spectacular"...Views from Bavaria (1933).
13
Why are people particularly the Journalists so afraid to speak up when they catch Trump or his supporters spread lies about Hillary ?
Last night Rudy Giuliani became the face of venom..becoming a self appointed witch doctor talking about Hillary Clinton and that her coughing , and concussion, and so on and Chris Mathews never tried to stop him or cut him off.
Shame on the so called Journalists starting with Matt Lauer and now of all people Chris Mathews who is known for his annoying interruption allowed this shameful act to continue for good fifteen minutes.
Last night Rudy Giuliani became the face of venom..becoming a self appointed witch doctor talking about Hillary Clinton and that her coughing , and concussion, and so on and Chris Mathews never tried to stop him or cut him off.
Shame on the so called Journalists starting with Matt Lauer and now of all people Chris Mathews who is known for his annoying interruption allowed this shameful act to continue for good fifteen minutes.
10
Well, you can't fix stupid. Too bad stupid gets to vote.
5
Time for Kentuckian Wendell Berry to weigh in on this.
2
And daddy won't you take me back to Muhlenberg County
Down by the Green River where Paradise lay
Well, I'm sorry my son, but you're too late in asking
Mister Peabody's coal train has hauled it away
-John Prine
Down by the Green River where Paradise lay
Well, I'm sorry my son, but you're too late in asking
Mister Peabody's coal train has hauled it away
-John Prine
6
No one took "it" from you. You gave it away. You didn't get good grades you didn't continue your education and you didn't keep up on the skills needed to maintain your job and lifestyle. Truth is you're not really mad at the government or Obama, deep down in your heart of hearts you're mad at yourself for being complacent.
13
“Trump’s going to get us killed, probably!” But I’ll vote for him anyway over Hillary."
This one quote summarizes the typical Republican voter so well, it's scary.
This one quote summarizes the typical Republican voter so well, it's scary.
10
Yeah, France is definitely better.
1
Nation building starts at home. Trump country should be easier than Iraq and Libya. But don't count on it.
Whoever's Prez gets the blame and the Prez is steering a battered ship. Too bad it's not more clear that Congress funds laws and corporate interests take a big share off the top. If there's no profit to be had --e.g. Appalachia -- then why would they bother. Same for the slums of Brazil or India or wherever.
2
Lying constantly about virtually everything is telling it like it is. Cindy Hedges, wake up!
7
They need somebody spectacular? The Don is a spectacular liar. Perhaps they would like to rethink the requirements to lead the free world.
9
Burning down the house leaves you homeless. Beware of what you wish for, you might get it.
Think things are bad now? Try Trump, and get some real misery. Think he can revive the coal industry? Nope.
Forward looking relief for working class people is always more available from Democrats.
They also care about your water, your air, and your survival. Republicans, not so much.
Blaming victims of Republican obstruction for that obstruction is just what they wanted you to do. Don't be foolish!
Think things are bad now? Try Trump, and get some real misery. Think he can revive the coal industry? Nope.
Forward looking relief for working class people is always more available from Democrats.
They also care about your water, your air, and your survival. Republicans, not so much.
Blaming victims of Republican obstruction for that obstruction is just what they wanted you to do. Don't be foolish!
19
Income inequality and lack of opportunity arise from tax cuts for the rich. I realize some of those small tax cuts came for the less well off as well, but not nearly as much. In the meanwhile, sales taxes have gone up, and those fall more heavily on those who have less. So have fees. Support for public services goes down, while money goes to services for the wealthy.
It is Republicans who have cut cut cut for those with less, and given given given to the wealthy. Wealthy interests pay for their campaigns and advertising.
The cause of your problems has been Republican obstruction and Republican efforts to take from the poor to give to the rich: reverse Robin Hood.
It is Republicans who have cut cut cut for those with less, and given given given to the wealthy. Wealthy interests pay for their campaigns and advertising.
The cause of your problems has been Republican obstruction and Republican efforts to take from the poor to give to the rich: reverse Robin Hood.
13
Trump supporters are tired of feeling like losers. Somehow Trump's audacity makes 'em feel better or less worthless. He sort of gives them hope or at least looks like he'll kick some ***. They like that. And they feel so rotten they don't care if he starts a nuclear war. What have they got lose?
7
No matter if it is Trump or Clinton... goal is DEAD! All industry must compete and adapt. All states must diversify. If you are dependant on a single industry you are asking for it. I leave in California and we have had multiple crashes from aerospace, technology, real estate ... At age 50, I have to adapt to numerous layoffs from tech companies... It is been hard on everyone, but that is the way the world IS NOW. Get it. Vote whatever you want... I don't care about your either...
4
kfors:
There are many ways a human adapts. I am so sorry that your employment experiences have hardened you into such an uncaring person. I hope that you may be able to adapt to compassion. Voting for a jerk is a lesser evil than not caring about your fellow man.
There are many ways a human adapts. I am so sorry that your employment experiences have hardened you into such an uncaring person. I hope that you may be able to adapt to compassion. Voting for a jerk is a lesser evil than not caring about your fellow man.
1
Hey Kentucky!!......I hate to break it to you ....your problem is not Obama ...it's Mitch McConnell!! .......and you keep electing him.
"Despite McConnell's reputation as the man who said his No. 1 goal was to stop President Obama from winning a second term, it's been McConnell at the table when the big deals—be they over threatened government shutdowns, debt defaults or fiscal cliffs—have been finalized."With a 49% disapproval rate, he has the highest disapproval rate out of all senators" ....Wikipedia
COAL IS DEAD!! The country is changing. How about McConnell doing his job by understanding this and using tax incentives to entice companies who build Solar Panels, as an example, with a stipulation that they retool and retrain those in the coal industry. I've posted before a list of companies that are here in America and hire Americans. Vote the fool out already!!
"Despite McConnell's reputation as the man who said his No. 1 goal was to stop President Obama from winning a second term, it's been McConnell at the table when the big deals—be they over threatened government shutdowns, debt defaults or fiscal cliffs—have been finalized."With a 49% disapproval rate, he has the highest disapproval rate out of all senators" ....Wikipedia
COAL IS DEAD!! The country is changing. How about McConnell doing his job by understanding this and using tax incentives to entice companies who build Solar Panels, as an example, with a stipulation that they retool and retrain those in the coal industry. I've posted before a list of companies that are here in America and hire Americans. Vote the fool out already!!
52
COAL JOBS ARE NOT COMING BACK! No one wants filthy, dirty coal, and 'clean coal' is an oxymoron. Jobs in the rust belt are not coming back. Not because of China, it's technology stupid.
There are 7 billion people on this planet, and the rest of us realize that if you want a job you probably have to move to a place where the jobs are.
The government will pay to retrain you, learn how to fix robots, there, problem solved.
There are 7 billion people on this planet, and the rest of us realize that if you want a job you probably have to move to a place where the jobs are.
The government will pay to retrain you, learn how to fix robots, there, problem solved.
14
Andrea, "clean coal" is not the oxymoron that you and many of our neighbors here in Portlandia believe. There is a lot of energy in coal and it can be used cleanly, witness the advanced plants in China.
Repairing the robots that have taken your jobs sounds like a rosy future if you have given up on actually producing something with your own hands and mind. Otherwise?
Repairing the robots that have taken your jobs sounds like a rosy future if you have given up on actually producing something with your own hands and mind. Otherwise?
2
You cannot see the other side of the street in China , thanks to "clean" coal
3
Phil Z., clean coal is a LIE LIE LIE.
I know folks from China who told me they never saw a really blue sky before they came to America. Never.
They had no idea what color it was supposed to be until they came here at 25 years of age.
Good Riddance to coal.
I know folks from China who told me they never saw a really blue sky before they came to America. Never.
They had no idea what color it was supposed to be until they came here at 25 years of age.
Good Riddance to coal.
'take their oil"..."ban this, ban that"...."putin is great".....if i said this stupid things in public, i deserve a slap on my face....and so does trump...
20
Coal folk reserve the right to change. DT controls the frame of debate -- people understand that. HRC? 24 years of Clintonia? 8 more? Lifetime in the presidency? Maybe a tougher sell than a crazy toupee.
3
Chris, I hate to burst your bubble, but even the Hillary trolls acknowledge that Trump's hair is his own.
But, your point of endless Clinton's is well taken. As with the Kennedy's, we have had enough of these political dynasties.
But, your point of endless Clinton's is well taken. As with the Kennedy's, we have had enough of these political dynasties.
1
Hillary wants to help them AND work on saving the environment.... They want to be helped and the environment be damned...
Sorry, you get no sympathy from me...
Sorry, you get no sympathy from me...
28
No mention of Joe Bageant here, so I have to recommend his essays from poor-white coal country.
Check out Rainbow Pie (Redneck Memoir), 'Deer Hunting With Jesus', & 'Waltzing at the Doomsday Ball'.
R.I.P. Joe.
Check out Rainbow Pie (Redneck Memoir), 'Deer Hunting With Jesus', & 'Waltzing at the Doomsday Ball'.
R.I.P. Joe.
5
Just ask someone of real character, integrity and success what they think of Donald Trump. Ask Warren Buffett, Jeff Bezos or Mayor Bloomberg.
Mr. Trump is the Pied Piper of the Con, and so many lemmings are following him over the cliff.
Mr. Trump is the Pied Piper of the Con, and so many lemmings are following him over the cliff.
17
Oh my god. Bezos and Bloomberg are AWFUL examples. Have you no idea of how they treat their employees? Basically white collar sweatshops.
5
Nothing has ever made me feel like a town is so desolate than the phrase "Starbucks-free Man Street".
3
Excellent.
2
"I don't care...I just don't care." The poor lady defines the new America. Enjoy it while it lasts. Won't be long now. Trump will have them bowing to a foreign master (Russia's Comrade Vladimir) Putin in payment of billions in unpaid obligations.
Who will they blame then? Obama?
Who will they blame then? Obama?
16
The DNC. For putting up a candidate that can't put Trump away.
2
The coal industry began to die when Obama was a teenager yet these people think he's hurting them?
And Trump isn't a plain talker, he's a foul mouthed liar. There's a world of difference.
And Trump isn't a plain talker, he's a foul mouthed liar. There's a world of difference.
58
Not just a liar but a fascist narcissist who is impressed by a man who executes his critics. How did US get so stupid as to be conned by this person?
I love Oregon but if Trump represents US, I am going to want to move to Canada just so my kids don't have to be exposed to this horrible person.
I love Oregon but if Trump represents US, I am going to want to move to Canada just so my kids don't have to be exposed to this horrible person.
3
When you see numbers like this: [coal mining jobs are down to] "6,500 from about 18,000 when Obama took office; the number fell 6.9 percent between this April and June alone," you can't help but feel for these people. But it is wrong to blame Obama -- this is capitalism, and it always has been: creative destruction. The fact is that coal has been replaced with cleaner burning natural gas. If you want to blame somebody, blame the frackers in Oklahoma and Texas. They are regulated too, BTW. The market now requires a cleaner burning fuel -- though consumption is falling much faster than production, so coal miners are being insulated to some degree from the effects of the market. [Consumption is currently at 900 million short tons/year but production is at over 1 billion short tons/year -- that is a big difference.] And the fact is this all happened so fast it is hard to effectively adapt. So I feel for these people. We need a Marshall Plan for coal country: investment, education, a social net. The environment is changing and we need to help these people.
16
Pittsburg, Buffalo, the Great Lakes region have lost more jobs than this area.
4
Recent chat with Trump fan, who exclaimed: "We need him! He is like us, he's OURs!" Unfortunately, a large contingent of Trump fans are looking for an alter ego, someone who looks and sounds and believes like them, not somebody truly "spectacular", by any measure. That is only human and natural. However, when the persona being cloned is a bigot, it becomes a problem. Especially when electing an office that has to represent the 40% who may not look or believe like the average Trump fan.
"I don’t think he is a danger to the Republic because American institutions are stronger than Trump’s ego." This is an arguable belief. The institutions in question may be stronger than Trump's ego, but they're not stronger than a large collective bigotry suddenly made mainstream and endorsed by the White House.
"I don’t think he is a danger to the Republic because American institutions are stronger than Trump’s ego." This is an arguable belief. The institutions in question may be stronger than Trump's ego, but they're not stronger than a large collective bigotry suddenly made mainstream and endorsed by the White House.
15
I believe these towns deserve targeted investment, especially since their current decline is a result of policy. But ohh...wait a minute...the people who live in them don't believe in public investment. They send pols to D.C. who cut taxes for the rich and boost corporate welfare and spend on unbridle war adventures...and eliminate public investment in their places.
Ok, well how else can they shoot themselves in the foot? Vote for The Dumbald, of course, who will support even more whacky economic perhaps also military misadventures.
The pity is that these are strong, capable, resourceful people seem caught up in a sort of pity party. I'm sorry, one hears so much whining. A lot of us white folk have had to pull ourselves up by the bootstraps (with the benefit of our whiteness, I can add). We've have had to move, train for new careers, go through low points and venture our ways to better ones again. We stayed off drugs, managed our budgets ruthlessly, worked more when just having a job wasn't enough. We slept in cars, tents, airport lounges; found nice second hand clothes; cancelled cable TV, stopped buying stuff...and didn't look for a savior. We just got on with it, relying on exactly the kind of strengths and qualities featured in the people of this article.
I'm sure that with public investment and by playing on their strengths these individuals, households and towns can forge a good new future. Trump is not going to get them there. To the contrary...
Ok, well how else can they shoot themselves in the foot? Vote for The Dumbald, of course, who will support even more whacky economic perhaps also military misadventures.
The pity is that these are strong, capable, resourceful people seem caught up in a sort of pity party. I'm sorry, one hears so much whining. A lot of us white folk have had to pull ourselves up by the bootstraps (with the benefit of our whiteness, I can add). We've have had to move, train for new careers, go through low points and venture our ways to better ones again. We stayed off drugs, managed our budgets ruthlessly, worked more when just having a job wasn't enough. We slept in cars, tents, airport lounges; found nice second hand clothes; cancelled cable TV, stopped buying stuff...and didn't look for a savior. We just got on with it, relying on exactly the kind of strengths and qualities featured in the people of this article.
I'm sure that with public investment and by playing on their strengths these individuals, households and towns can forge a good new future. Trump is not going to get them there. To the contrary...
32
A lot of us non-white folks have had to bootstrap it with no boots--or boots being kicked off our feet. And we're still scapegoated by folks like these who aren't happy unless someone is "less" than they are.
5
The only thing that would help these people is massive spending on infrastructure, particularly bridges, roads, rail, etc., as opposed to high tech such as communications and Internet. Those are the only types of projects with well-paying jobs for which these people possibly qualify. That would require new taxes on the very people Trump does not want to tax. Clinton has some proposals for infrastructure spending though they are completely inadequate. They will get next to nothing if Trump is elected. But, just as you can't make a basketball player taller, you can't make these people smarter. They vote with their guts, not their brains or even their common sense.
12
The Free Market values of Donald Trump is the same Free Market that gutted Appalachia and turned the oil boom in Texas to bust.
Trump is its champion, Kentucky, and you are useful to him in as much as he can use your votes to enrich himself. Search his resume for charitable actions towards your area. Maybe a "free" hat. Hard to get more cynical than that.
18
"There’s a sense, crystallized in coal’s steady demise, that ... “Somebody is taking everything you are used to and you had”"
Yeah it's called "change." Check out the book "Who Moved My Cheese?" It's a book about some mice who realize their favored cache of cheese is getting smaller and smaller every day. Some of the mice "sniff and scurry" to find more cheese. But other mice do not, and eventually the cheese is all gone, and they are upset. There's no buggy whip business in America to speak of either.
Yeah it's called "change." Check out the book "Who Moved My Cheese?" It's a book about some mice who realize their favored cache of cheese is getting smaller and smaller every day. Some of the mice "sniff and scurry" to find more cheese. But other mice do not, and eventually the cheese is all gone, and they are upset. There's no buggy whip business in America to speak of either.
15
Somebody spectacular to lead the US would be airline Captain Sullenberger: thoughtful, smart, brave, honest. A hero that cares about people first.
6
"I just don't care." Very well, then.
22
This highlights what people are starting to understand.....why all of Trump's lies, discrimination, bankruptcies, fraud charges, pay to play, Putin-Russian bromance, his general ignorance of how government and foreign policy work, bigotry, gain no traction. This election is not about logic, but emotion.
13
I know folks from Hazzard and I truly feel sorry for their plight. However, Donald has sold you a bill of goods. The jobs you lost are never coming back, not now, not never. Why? Because those jobs no longer exist. They don't exist either because they are no longer needed (coal) or because computers do the work. Instead of lamenting what was, folks ought to be training themselves for what is and will be. Change is difficult, I understand that too. But people make choices and if you choose not to change you you will be left behind. It's just that simple.
39
The real problem is that no one bothered to read Thomas Friedman's book, "The World is Flat" written more than 10 years ago.
Under educated middle America white folks thought that there would be jobs for them and their children in a world economy despite Mr. Friedman's presentation to the contrary.
It wasn't Mr. Obama that closed the coal mines but the technology that made it cheaper and more profitable to extract oil and natural gas; coal had been displaced by technology just as Mr. Friedman had predicted.
We and our children never had to compete for our jobs before and we don't like it which means that we look to blame a scapegoat, in this case, Mr. Obama. We certainly had time to read, understand and digest what Mr. Friedman told us but many disregarded his warnings which like coal, has made them irrelevant.
Is this hopeless? Not by a long shot.. Under educated white folks need to learn what their hero Ronald Reagan said, " There is no free lunch." Learn technology or learn a trade and it may help you to finally read, "The World Is Flat."
Under educated middle America white folks thought that there would be jobs for them and their children in a world economy despite Mr. Friedman's presentation to the contrary.
It wasn't Mr. Obama that closed the coal mines but the technology that made it cheaper and more profitable to extract oil and natural gas; coal had been displaced by technology just as Mr. Friedman had predicted.
We and our children never had to compete for our jobs before and we don't like it which means that we look to blame a scapegoat, in this case, Mr. Obama. We certainly had time to read, understand and digest what Mr. Friedman told us but many disregarded his warnings which like coal, has made them irrelevant.
Is this hopeless? Not by a long shot.. Under educated white folks need to learn what their hero Ronald Reagan said, " There is no free lunch." Learn technology or learn a trade and it may help you to finally read, "The World Is Flat."
13
Perhaps "The World is Flat" did not sell well in Kentucky. Perhaps few of the Trump voters not only have not read the book, they have never heard about it. I know Tea Party politicians are not reading Friedman; they are too busy reading Ayn Rand.
1
Moving to other areas of the country is also possible.
When faced with poverty and terrible job/economic prospects in their South Dakota small town during the Great Depression, 8 out of my grandfather's 8 siblings picked up and moved to take advantage of opportunities. 6 of them left South Dakota - and went as far as CA, OK, TN, MO, OH, and NY. Traveling around the country throughout my childhood and visiting my far flung great uncles and aunts taught me a great deal about survival.
When faced with poverty and terrible job/economic prospects in their South Dakota small town during the Great Depression, 8 out of my grandfather's 8 siblings picked up and moved to take advantage of opportunities. 6 of them left South Dakota - and went as far as CA, OK, TN, MO, OH, and NY. Traveling around the country throughout my childhood and visiting my far flung great uncles and aunts taught me a great deal about survival.
1
"the Starbucks-free Main Street"
Brilliant, simply brilliant.
With just a simple line the writer managed to resume how it is living in Hazard, how difficult and hopeless the economic and social conditions are, how far away and disconnected Hazard looks to the booming areas of this country.
Great way to show us that there is another, “hidden” US, which was left behind and now is coming back with a revenge.
Brilliant, simply brilliant.
With just a simple line the writer managed to resume how it is living in Hazard, how difficult and hopeless the economic and social conditions are, how far away and disconnected Hazard looks to the booming areas of this country.
Great way to show us that there is another, “hidden” US, which was left behind and now is coming back with a revenge.
7
Wow. Some of the commentators are so self righteous. Wonder how you would feel if your community/way of life was being destroyed? These people are desperate and were promised help and aid after NAFTA which never came or only in tiny proportions. I don't like coal but where is the help for our fellow Americans? Are only people in third world countries worthy? Glad to see a journalist finally getting off his bum and going to these places. Every journalist should be forced to do a "Tour of Duty" in their own country to really talk with people and see what is going on. You might find they are as human as you. Maybe some of the commentators should do so as well.
11
The people in Appalachia aren't the first people to experience this, and they won't be the last. Here in Michigan the auto industry is a shadow of it's former self. PLENTY of people, especially in the midwest, have been in their shoes and did what they had to do to make a living, and it included training for a new job whether we liked it or not, and moving whether wanted to or not.
Appalachia has been very poor for a very long time; it did not start with Obama. They are going to have to find their own way like everyone else has to.
Appalachia has been very poor for a very long time; it did not start with Obama. They are going to have to find their own way like everyone else has to.
4
Thank you, PLH! Exactly my thoughts. The comments here make me sad for all of us. Show some grace and kindness. These people are truly struggling.
4
Maybe we'd feel more sympathy if these same people didn't keep electing Senators and House Representatives that fail to advocate for anything that would actually address these problems and instead dedicated themselves to blocking all progress and aid bills to make Obama look bad?
Look up how much legislation to address coal country ills languished in GOP controlled congress under the leadership of kentucky's own Mitch McConnell.
Look up how much legislation to address coal country ills languished in GOP controlled congress under the leadership of kentucky's own Mitch McConnell.
3
The author places blame on "liberal intellectual arrogance". Please. How about Mitch McConnell and the rest blocking every single possible thing Obama could have done? As long as they control the House, there will NEVER be any money for anyone because it all goes to lower taxes for the 1% and subsidies for fat corporations. What a tragedy.
33
I really appreciate this explanation of why Trump has any appeal at all. And I do feel very sorry for residents of Hazard, Kentucky and the problems they face. What I cannot do is make the leap from the loss of jobs in coal mines to Donald Trump. He keeps making promises that NO POTUS can keep, and he knows about as much about coal mines as I do - which is nothing. It is terribly sad to me that these Kentuckians are putting their hope and faith in this ignorant braggart, another Elmer Gantry.
21
If Ms Hedges' political choices are gut-driven, she should consider a change of diet - some clean organic food would be a start. More likely she needs a serious purge.
There is no justifiable reason for anyone to accept Trump's lies and treasonous foolishness. To vote for him is to betray your country and yourself.
There is no justifiable reason for anyone to accept Trump's lies and treasonous foolishness. To vote for him is to betray your country and yourself.
16
Coal has to go away. US (including Trump owned) companies that moved out of the US and avoid paying their share of taxes weren't forced by the US government to do so...blame American business people (including Trump). If you can't find a job where you live, you're probably going to have to move.
5
Trump supporters make me think of cancer patients... so desperate for a cure…unwilling to believe their doctor… who go down to a quack doctor in a foreign country who promises them a miracle cure. Only to find out later it was a scam to steal their money… ending up robbing them of time left to them, and cause their cancer to advance. You can't talk them out of it, because they are desperate and will listen to any con man speaking to their fears. That is Trump… the quack cancer cure con man.
16
And then they play the victim afterward.
2
Steve Smith's comment says it all, "Trump's going to get us all killed, probably...But I going to vote for him anyway." Difficult to reason with that sentiment.
48
@coats
That's only because there's no reasoning in that sentiment.
That's only because there's no reasoning in that sentiment.
2
Both Trump and Clinton have major character flaws that disqualify them for the Presidency.
They should both withdraw and each party should nominate another candidate who is better qualified.
To entice them ,promise Trump a statue of himself on the Washington Mall and promise Clinton she will not be indicted.
Most Americans would rejoice.
They should both withdraw and each party should nominate another candidate who is better qualified.
To entice them ,promise Trump a statue of himself on the Washington Mall and promise Clinton she will not be indicted.
Most Americans would rejoice.
6
Money would work for Clinton too, I'm sure.
5
The understandable anger of these people has been deflected by the elites that own the coal companies to the EPA, the Democrats and other countries. But the pointing hand has 3 fingers pointing back at the real source of the problem: better products from competitors and the businessmen who in the name of profit and shareholders sold out their neighbors. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2013/11/04/heres-why-central...
One would think that a journalist with Cohen's experience would have at least put in a sentence about the fact that at least half of the jobs have not been outsourced to other countries, rather 'in-sourced' to automation and 'efficiency'.
One would think that a journalist with Cohen's experience would have at least put in a sentence about the fact that at least half of the jobs have not been outsourced to other countries, rather 'in-sourced' to automation and 'efficiency'.
5
This journalist failed to fact check many statements and claims in his article.
Yet another flailing exercise in cynical openly emotionally manipulative propaganda by the New Hillary Times. Our UK fellow 'ex Left of Center' (and pro eternal war and neo McCarthyite) sister paper just gave us a wonderfully identical example of this today (indeed I have just come from there to find this); see 'Raw, emotional audio after 9/11 reveals rarely seen side of Hillary Clinton'.
The difference is that at least the readers there have evolved enough awareness of the manipulation to instinctively reject the use of emotion and factual omission to treat the neo Liberal pro Oligarchic propaganda with the contempt it rightly deserves. Both papers were 15 years ago my favorites but are now in my mind OUR version of Pravda but in the service of Oligarchy, Israel, permanent war and censorship while attempting to maintain the illusion they are still progressive newspapers.
Both are neo McCarthyist, russiophobic and relentless in their pushing for the same 'There is no alternative' logic of Margaret Thatcher's stick with the oligarchs pick while ridiculing ANY democratic alternatives to the 'terror war' or the status quo. Both destroyed (NYT and Sanders) or still trying to destroy (UK Guardian and Corbyn) ANY alternative's to pro Western hegemonic capitalist alternatives.
Both are unpaid Hilary propaganda machines who now support locking up and demonizing truth tellers (Snowdon and Assange) who do the job these papers once did but now fail to do. I am disgusted!
The difference is that at least the readers there have evolved enough awareness of the manipulation to instinctively reject the use of emotion and factual omission to treat the neo Liberal pro Oligarchic propaganda with the contempt it rightly deserves. Both papers were 15 years ago my favorites but are now in my mind OUR version of Pravda but in the service of Oligarchy, Israel, permanent war and censorship while attempting to maintain the illusion they are still progressive newspapers.
Both are neo McCarthyist, russiophobic and relentless in their pushing for the same 'There is no alternative' logic of Margaret Thatcher's stick with the oligarchs pick while ridiculing ANY democratic alternatives to the 'terror war' or the status quo. Both destroyed (NYT and Sanders) or still trying to destroy (UK Guardian and Corbyn) ANY alternative's to pro Western hegemonic capitalist alternatives.
Both are unpaid Hilary propaganda machines who now support locking up and demonizing truth tellers (Snowdon and Assange) who do the job these papers once did but now fail to do. I am disgusted!
2
I am dismayed by the person in this article who stated, "we may have to move" ... to find a better economic situation. Seriously, person, why haven't you moved already? Obama's goal is certainly not to ensure that each person can make a living in the industry they currently work in, or to stay living in the same place. His job is to ensure the greater good, which means, yes, less coal because it is ruining the environment. If you could find a job elsewhere and stay living in the same place just because you think someone owes you a living, then the only person you have to blame for your current turmoil is yourself.
12
I agree with some of what you say but I do want to remind you of a few problems associated with moving. Most of these people didn't have massive savings that they can turn to. Moving requires money. Money to do the job search, to travel for interviews, deposits for rental property/utilities, money to do the packing and moving. Second, social connections. Many people in these small towns have lived there for generations. Their social circle is often made up of their extended family. For some it's easier than for others to make the disconnection in order to move. But as they grow older, many people have older parents/relatives they need to care for. Do they move those people too (if they could even get them to move). These are just a few considerations that come into play. I don't disagree with you that sometimes you gotta do what you've gotta do and that can mean moving. I just wanted to remind people that sometimes it's easier to say "move" than to actually be capable of doing so.
1
Or maybe there's no money to move, or elderly relatives to care for. Try being kind and gracious. After all, you don't know their circumstances.
3
I feel kind of sorry for Mrs. Hedges. In the New York City area, Trump has long been known as a metropolitan joke. That joke obviously hasn't reached the people of Kentucky and other states. Donald Trump will not be able to solve the nation's problems any more than Donald Duck.
18
if gas prices have gone down, why are not savings syphoned off to displaces coal workers?!
2
Ha!
I hope this is a tongue in cheek question.
The oil revenues are going directly into the oil company executive pockets, with precious little even making it to their shareholders. They don't even want to pay US taxes to help pay for infrastructure so their trucks will have roads & bridges and schools so they will have educated employees.
Ha!
Ha ha!
I hope this is a tongue in cheek question.
The oil revenues are going directly into the oil company executive pockets, with precious little even making it to their shareholders. They don't even want to pay US taxes to help pay for infrastructure so their trucks will have roads & bridges and schools so they will have educated employees.
Ha!
Ha ha!
1
So, a few things to the commenters.
1. Moving isn't cheap and does real, permanent damage to people(you can't really reconstruct the social networks you have where you grew up).
2. Even if these people were willing to move there just aren't the jobs now that there used to be. Yes, there are jobs, but not middle class jobs like people could get in the 50's.
3. Not everyone can go to college.
4. Not everyone follows politics obsessively(I know, this was a hard one for me).
1. Moving isn't cheap and does real, permanent damage to people(you can't really reconstruct the social networks you have where you grew up).
2. Even if these people were willing to move there just aren't the jobs now that there used to be. Yes, there are jobs, but not middle class jobs like people could get in the 50's.
3. Not everyone can go to college.
4. Not everyone follows politics obsessively(I know, this was a hard one for me).
6
Say what you will, there's probably also a fair amount of racism mixed in with the resentment voiced here -- After all, this is Klan country, which might also help to explain their choice of presidential candidate.
Unfortunately, what these good folks don't know (and what most New Yorkers already know too well), is that Donald Trump is going to leave them aside for roadkill faster than you can say "coal mine", if he gets elected.
Nevertheless an interesting look into a world that many might not know about unless they've inhabited it themselves.
Unfortunately, what these good folks don't know (and what most New Yorkers already know too well), is that Donald Trump is going to leave them aside for roadkill faster than you can say "coal mine", if he gets elected.
Nevertheless an interesting look into a world that many might not know about unless they've inhabited it themselves.
15
A number of those interviewed voted for Obama in 2008. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and not presume racism.
5
There is indeed plenty of racism in KY (as there is in MA and NY as well) however, many people interviewed said they voted for Obama.
Now, a big problem seems to be that although they voted for Obama, KY continued to reelect Mitch McConnell and other GOP congressmen who promptly dedicated themselves to obstructing all progress and initiatives under Obama in order to spite him and make him look bad - and it worked! Sure, their constituents suffered immensely. But they don't care.
Now, a big problem seems to be that although they voted for Obama, KY continued to reelect Mitch McConnell and other GOP congressmen who promptly dedicated themselves to obstructing all progress and initiatives under Obama in order to spite him and make him look bad - and it worked! Sure, their constituents suffered immensely. But they don't care.
2
Voting for President is about voting for a vision even more than voting for policies. Presidents Kennedy and Reagan epitomized that reality. Though totally dystopian and largely predicated on lies, Trump does proffer a vision. Clinton, on the other hand, offers policies. Voters, especially those not already committed, will vote their gut more than they will vote an analytic evaluation of this policy and that.
5
For these people, Trump has the same appeal as a lottery ticket: it probably won't work, but he/it is a glimmer of hope when everything else is crumbling.
13
Face it- the GOP/Trump is carpetbagging in areas where the Gospel of the Free Market that they sell on Saturday is turned inside out on Sunday to Blame Other People: Obama, Global Warming, Black Folks, Hillary Clinton, etc.
These people are living the local reality of no jobs, but the world is not just local issues anymore. Someone selling hatred of Muslims and Mexicans may get you high but it will not produce change. Legislators need to serve their populations for basic needs and quit pandering for votes and delivering nothing.
Bottom Line Truth without the GOP "airy-fairy" Baloney: Trump's Ties are made in China.
These people are living the local reality of no jobs, but the world is not just local issues anymore. Someone selling hatred of Muslims and Mexicans may get you high but it will not produce change. Legislators need to serve their populations for basic needs and quit pandering for votes and delivering nothing.
Bottom Line Truth without the GOP "airy-fairy" Baloney: Trump's Ties are made in China.
9
Hillary goes to Appalachia and tells the truth: coal is dying and they have to expand their horizons. It was perhaps an ill advised truth, but the truth nonetheless. Trump goes to Appalachia and lies to them: he'll magically bring back coal. And they call Hillary the liar! It boggles my mind.
30
Cindy Hedges arrogance is as willful as her ignorance. That she has "never met a stranger" sums it up. Unless that "stranger" looks like Hedges, and is as equally as willfully ignorant and arrogant . . . well she is NOT meeting that stranger.
Perhaps if Ms Hedges would simply head out to the public library, she would learn a thing or two about what happened in the 1930's. It wasn't pretty, and the "leader" of it all was also obsessed with his hairdo. Yes, he was a clever one, and made all sorts of promises. He delivered none of them. Instead he delivered hell on earth.
And, Ms. Hedges, he left his lemmings in that hell on earth as well.
Perhaps if Ms Hedges would simply head out to the public library, she would learn a thing or two about what happened in the 1930's. It wasn't pretty, and the "leader" of it all was also obsessed with his hairdo. Yes, he was a clever one, and made all sorts of promises. He delivered none of them. Instead he delivered hell on earth.
And, Ms. Hedges, he left his lemmings in that hell on earth as well.
11
I'm tired of hearing these folks complain that their towns are dying. Quit whining and takes some responsibility for yourself and move to another town.
12
After reading the Article, It seems to me as if the Drug Epidemic in the Appalachian is more serious than reported by the Media. Like Drugs addicts with Drugs, People interviewed in this Article acknowledge that Trump is BAD..
Trump is just another Drug , he is "spectacular", and they like what he says. They get high by listening to Trump. Like Heroin or any other drugs out there, Trump make them feel good for a moment but he won't help them .
Trump is just another Drug , he is "spectacular", and they like what he says. They get high by listening to Trump. Like Heroin or any other drugs out there, Trump make them feel good for a moment but he won't help them .
16
I cannot think of these people without derision. They want to make their living mining coal? COAL?? Why not buggy whips or manual typewriters??
I don't owe them a living. America does not owe them a living. They have to do what all humans everywhere have to do: take responsibility for their own life and stop expecting others to do it for them.
Assess and adapt.
I don't owe them a living. America does not owe them a living. They have to do what all humans everywhere have to do: take responsibility for their own life and stop expecting others to do it for them.
Assess and adapt.
14
Trump panders to the coal miners-he cannot bring back these jobs-they are gone forever, for many reasons.
9
Pudi,
Panders = Lies. Lies = NOT "telling it like it is."
Panders = Lies. Lies = NOT "telling it like it is."
1
"Jobs went south to mexico or east to Asia". Not coal mining jobs.
5
I guess it wouldn't help to explain to coal miners that the real blame for losses in their industry lies with natural gas frackers...
6
Coal miners of Kentucky, you are fooling yourselves if you think The Donald will bring back coal. Coal is never coming back. This is not the fault of Barack Obama. Just like globalization was not the fault of Ronald Reagan. I grew up in a small southern town during the good ole times. The middle class was thriving until the hosiery mill shut down in the 60's. My father owned a department store in our town of 2,000. It was thriving too until globalization created the superstores like KMART and WALMART in the 80's. My father had to close shop. But he didn't blame government. He understood that globalization had changed his way of life. There is no going back to coal or small retail stores or tobacco farming or so many things we used to depend on. We must move forward, learn a new skill, lobby for universal health care, and a real livable wage. Coal ain't coming back folks. And there is nothing that Donald Trump can do about it.
31
The fireworks are spectacular and exciting, but there will be lots of mess afterward. The "don't care" attitude of Trump's supporters can lead us there. One day, they will be regret the wishes cone true. While the whole world around us is moving ahead, it will be hard to regain the position once you are crumbled.
12
A small hotel owner in Sicily once told me, "Who we elect as Prime Minister of Italy doesn't affect you, but who you elect as POTUS affects everyone in the world."
Why should we care about someone who votes for a President only to retain jobs in a failing, outdated, and destructive industry; who cares only for white people their community... someone who cannot see a national picture, much less an international one; a voter who doesn't even know why and how their community has been ignored? True freedom requires responsibility, and the irresponsibility of anger, bigotry, ignorance, propaganda, and self interest in a democracy is a very sad thing.
Why should we care about someone who votes for a President only to retain jobs in a failing, outdated, and destructive industry; who cares only for white people their community... someone who cannot see a national picture, much less an international one; a voter who doesn't even know why and how their community has been ignored? True freedom requires responsibility, and the irresponsibility of anger, bigotry, ignorance, propaganda, and self interest in a democracy is a very sad thing.
23
What they have been through? They've been through nothing except their own laziness and white privilege. A more spoiled, entitled group I have never seen. I want to remain liberal, but when I look at these lazy, entitled people making more and more of themselves on my dollar, showing no initiative and whining, I wonder at our generous welfare state.
You can't fix stupid. You can fix lazy if you take away the entitlements.
You can't fix stupid. You can fix lazy if you take away the entitlements.
8
Knowing that Trump could\will destroy this country but still supporting him is not unlike the apocalyptic thinking that has spawned any number of similar groups supporting despots and barbarians everywhere
10
On a personal level, anyone making $1500/week or more should heed this article as a warning and SAVE at least half of that while the times are good. I work in software and I know that my job might not exist in 20 years. I don't expect to have a long career (nor do I want one), so I don't care if they send my job to another country in a few decades. I'd rather save now and get out early. Anyone with a good job should do the same because you never know what the future holds.
8
Coal is dead. Millions spent on improving access via train and highway to and from Appalachia since WWII has not changed anything. Those who left, and there are only a few, have made different lives for themselves, those who have stayed, for whatever reason have suffered....to no end. Business has not moved to Appalachia, outside of Coal it has fled....
If Trump wins, the Republican party will cut these people off, and they will starve, Trump will not have control of that. the party of small government, big Defense and low taxes will cut everything to keep the beast going.....they will become victims...
Save yourselves and move! The taxpayer will only help the Coal companies, not you!
If Trump wins, the Republican party will cut these people off, and they will starve, Trump will not have control of that. the party of small government, big Defense and low taxes will cut everything to keep the beast going.....they will become victims...
Save yourselves and move! The taxpayer will only help the Coal companies, not you!
8
In all my 86 years, I have never understood why the media and the politicians insist on calling that kind of dog-and-pony show we saw a "debate". You and I and the participants know that it was NOT a debate. It was a pre-planned exposure, playing the game of "Gotcha!" like all the ones which have come before. Shame on the participants! Shame on Lauer! Shame on us for going along with such a farce.....I must admit, however, that it cemented my belief that Trump is a phony windbag who should not get near a nuclear weapon control; that Lauer does not have the skills demanded of his position; and that Mrs. Clinton is the only sensible and safe choice in November.
19
The irony here is that people in inner city slums are no better off than people in Kentucky. The Right has white people in this country believing that Obama is doing something for minorities but the truth is Republicans have blocked Obama from helping anyone. To Vote for Trump is crazy and to vote for any Republican is even crazier. The good people of Kentucky are in for a rude awakening if they get what they want.
19
Germany once was "desperate for change," and have regretted it ever since.
19
?
Meaning what? German reunification?
Meaning what? German reunification?
1
Emotion vs. reason. In life one cannot just sit back, let things happen to you and then react in an emotional way. Kentucky, using reason, you could have foreseen that the coal industry was in decline and that you needed to retrain and diversify to survive. Now instead you're just whining that your way of life has gone away. Using reason now instead of emotion, what in Trump's background and today's economic reality leads you to believe that he can bring the coal industry back? He can't. Therefore, which candidate is more likely to support education, retraining and economic development? It's time to think now instead of "feel".
16
There’s a far greater likelihood that Clinton would be tempted to meddle in the internal affairs of foreign countries than Trump would. She already has.
4
I feel sorry your life has changed. I worked on wall Street and in 1991 I was one of those guys who got 30 minutes to clean out their desk. I never got back that lifestyle. I feel more sorry you all fell for Trumps hot air. He just says what will make the crowd cheer. Coal is never coming back, your best shot is Hillarys clean energy plan.
32
Trump has already told people that he made a stash on the misery of the housing collapse. His phoney baloney Trump U was all about getting a stomach for human roadkill.
These folks are gleeful thinking Donald and his vultures circling overhead are really angels, there to pick Hillary Clinton's bones.
Don't flatter yourselves. The old-timers who knew a cheat when they saw one must have moved out of the neighborhood.
These folks are gleeful thinking Donald and his vultures circling overhead are really angels, there to pick Hillary Clinton's bones.
Don't flatter yourselves. The old-timers who knew a cheat when they saw one must have moved out of the neighborhood.
15
This article is a tribute to Roger Cohen's willingness to go out and see what's happening in America and not just in France or England. But why so late? Some of us have been yelling at him for well over a year that there was a major toxic center growing in America. Of course, let us mourn for the bewildered of America, those bewildered enough to support Trump. But whose fault is it that they're so under-educated?
We hear of the frog sitting in a pot of warm water. So comfortably that it doesn't notice when the heat is turned up. Cohen, Brooks, Bruni... thanks, lads, thanks a bunch.
We hear of the frog sitting in a pot of warm water. So comfortably that it doesn't notice when the heat is turned up. Cohen, Brooks, Bruni... thanks, lads, thanks a bunch.
6
"I don’t care. After all we’ve been through, I just don’t care."
The epitaph for this election season, and probably for the country.
The epitaph for this election season, and probably for the country.
7
The generation who went through the Great Depression didn't say that.
They voted for progressive change.
They voted for progressive change.
2
Americans refuse to kneel before clowns brandishing their power like a light saber. This the angry, brittle Barack Obama gets no traction in places where people have have to struggle to make their own lives.
Now you get to see how insular and progressive the faculties at southern universities are - just like they were at Berkley or Columbia. Note how Democrats are always looking for a way to mention sex organs. I've not figured that one out yet.
Now you get to see how insular and progressive the faculties at southern universities are - just like they were at Berkley or Columbia. Note how Democrats are always looking for a way to mention sex organs. I've not figured that one out yet.
3
I grow weary of hearing how Trump's candor and bluntness are virtues. Actually, Trump tells it like it isn't.
12
Bush said ... “Obama’s probably never known hardship. He and Hillary don’t get it. At least Trump don’t hold nothing back: If he don’t like something, he tells you about it.”
First off, a white southerner saying a mixed-race (but by all appearances black) child raised by a single parent has never known hardship is amazing, for all the wrong reasons. But as he goes on, it's not really about that, is it. It's not really about anything than inborn bigotry and the need to blame everyone but themselves for their plight. They've voted this anger,resentment, and nationalistic hubris, for the last 36 years and their lives have gotten progressively worse. They have a candidate now who says and does all the things that would have outraged them a year ago. But he's not a negro or a woman (or a gentleman for that matter), so it's okay. It's tough to feel sorry for them, but the tragedy is their votes of rage might well destroy this country, and they don't care. So long as they get "change."
Maybe vote for candildates at the top and down the ballot who will work progressively to bring their economies and cities into the future? Nah. "USA, USA!!!" feels so much better.
First off, a white southerner saying a mixed-race (but by all appearances black) child raised by a single parent has never known hardship is amazing, for all the wrong reasons. But as he goes on, it's not really about that, is it. It's not really about anything than inborn bigotry and the need to blame everyone but themselves for their plight. They've voted this anger,resentment, and nationalistic hubris, for the last 36 years and their lives have gotten progressively worse. They have a candidate now who says and does all the things that would have outraged them a year ago. But he's not a negro or a woman (or a gentleman for that matter), so it's okay. It's tough to feel sorry for them, but the tragedy is their votes of rage might well destroy this country, and they don't care. So long as they get "change."
Maybe vote for candildates at the top and down the ballot who will work progressively to bring their economies and cities into the future? Nah. "USA, USA!!!" feels so much better.
13
Many in this coal mining area are on what they call the dole. They don't want to be and feel guilty about it. If Trump is elected there will be no more safety net and they will get their wish to be completely self reliant. yes a steady job is better, but when you are down and out you need a hand and perhaps you might want to bite the hand that feeds you.
So this reaction is understandable, but in the end they will pay dearly for their angry reaction by voting for a man and a party whose sole desire is not to create opportunity, but slash any thing that would help them in the long run.
So this reaction is understandable, but in the end they will pay dearly for their angry reaction by voting for a man and a party whose sole desire is not to create opportunity, but slash any thing that would help them in the long run.
9
"… places like Appalachia where courage, country and cussedness are core values."
You know what takes courage? Facing the truth. And the truth is that Donald J. Trump is a grafter who will say whatever he thinks will get him votes. And should the country lose its collective mind and elect him, he'll fail to deliver on every promise and leave the people of Appalachia with even less hope.
Magical thinking is not an effective life strategy.
You know what takes courage? Facing the truth. And the truth is that Donald J. Trump is a grafter who will say whatever he thinks will get him votes. And should the country lose its collective mind and elect him, he'll fail to deliver on every promise and leave the people of Appalachia with even less hope.
Magical thinking is not an effective life strategy.
20
I don't care?
Apparently for all their precious guns and their precious religion some Appalachian voters have completely forgotten how to count their blessings. Well, maybe it's understandable since they have got people screaming at them over their tv sets twenty four seven about how everything and everyone is going to H E double hockey sticks. Donald Trump as your infinitely annoying master of ceremonies to the end of times? You can see how to some lost souls it could indeed make a certain horrible kind of perfect sense.
Apparently for all their precious guns and their precious religion some Appalachian voters have completely forgotten how to count their blessings. Well, maybe it's understandable since they have got people screaming at them over their tv sets twenty four seven about how everything and everyone is going to H E double hockey sticks. Donald Trump as your infinitely annoying master of ceremonies to the end of times? You can see how to some lost souls it could indeed make a certain horrible kind of perfect sense.
8
Could there have been a more incendiary headline chosen to distort the content of this article?
Probably not.
Probably not.
1
Not only am I angry that these voters (who feel like they've had no voice) have been labeled as bigoted and uneducated, I'm saddened that we have an antiquated two party system filled with individuals who care more about winning than moving our country forward and being of service to the citizens that it should be humbly serving.
I believe that we are generally, good people. Yes, there is a fringe element who is going against all of the basic tenants of our constitution and who are bigoted and hateful. Let's not lump those people in with those who are now feeling empowered to stand up and have their say during this election.
I get that people see Trump as a straight shooter.
The sad reality is that unless it financially benefits Trump, there will be no follow through if he is elected. I don't say this as a supporter of Clinton, I say this as a citizen who has followed Trump's career in NY, NJ, and FL. We have decades of evidence that backup the lack of his follow through.
I won't lie to you - I am bothered by his affinity for hyperbole and Putin. My biggest reason though for not supporting him is his business record. There is no evidence that he will put our country before his own interest. If I thought for a moment that he was capable, I would re-evaluate him but for now, he's not a better alternative for the status quo.
I believe that we are generally, good people. Yes, there is a fringe element who is going against all of the basic tenants of our constitution and who are bigoted and hateful. Let's not lump those people in with those who are now feeling empowered to stand up and have their say during this election.
I get that people see Trump as a straight shooter.
The sad reality is that unless it financially benefits Trump, there will be no follow through if he is elected. I don't say this as a supporter of Clinton, I say this as a citizen who has followed Trump's career in NY, NJ, and FL. We have decades of evidence that backup the lack of his follow through.
I won't lie to you - I am bothered by his affinity for hyperbole and Putin. My biggest reason though for not supporting him is his business record. There is no evidence that he will put our country before his own interest. If I thought for a moment that he was capable, I would re-evaluate him but for now, he's not a better alternative for the status quo.
23
These people ARE bigoted and uneducated.
5
Wow. Finally some insight from the NYT on why Trump is popular. It turns out that the Trumpites are not just ignorant, stupid, backwater rubes, but people who are justifiably angry and justifiably scared. The left is not, and never has been the "intellectual" party, as much as they wish it. If they were, they would have seen this point a long time ago.
5
In my experience, I think heaps of Dems like me, from working class backgrounds, can easily see and identify with folks who are justifiably angry and scared. What we don't agree with is their solution to that - voting R? What, are you crazy?
Obama has never known hardship?! The implication being that Trump has?! Some people are delusional.
And what happened to the conservative belief in American exceptionalism and boot-strapping? I understand people are frustrated because the economy is changing and they're out of a job but it's time to adapt and figure out a new way forward. A lot of horse stables must have closed down when automobiles were first produced. Coal is not coming back to dominate energy production, that's just the hard truth.
And what happened to the conservative belief in American exceptionalism and boot-strapping? I understand people are frustrated because the economy is changing and they're out of a job but it's time to adapt and figure out a new way forward. A lot of horse stables must have closed down when automobiles were first produced. Coal is not coming back to dominate energy production, that's just the hard truth.
12
These interviews Roger Cohen conducted show the disconnect between Washington officials and their constituents. Not one mentioned the roadblocks Obama faced with a hostile Congress I bet they know nothing of what transpires in Washington D.C. Hillary needs to campaign in Kentucky. although I doubt that would change their minds.
5
Coal only lasts song long. Ask the British. It's filthy and mining it shortens the life of the workers.
There is a long history of Americans working nasty dirty jobs so that their children don't have to. What I cannot fathom about the folks depicted in Roger's report is that they don't seem to have followed the classic American pattern of pushing their children OUT of the miserable conditions they have endured. There's nothing here about pushing the kids to go to school or seek better lives elsewhere.
There is a long history of Americans working nasty dirty jobs so that their children don't have to. What I cannot fathom about the folks depicted in Roger's report is that they don't seem to have followed the classic American pattern of pushing their children OUT of the miserable conditions they have endured. There's nothing here about pushing the kids to go to school or seek better lives elsewhere.
9
People trying to hold on to a dying way of life will cling to whatever allows them to keep that life. Trump pretends to care but Clinton/Obama know this way of life is not sustainable.
I cant help but think if this article was about poor black voters, somehow the "Party of Personal Responsibility" folks would tell the people in it to get a job or a better education. Maybe a dose of their own teachings would go a long way.
I cant help but think if this article was about poor black voters, somehow the "Party of Personal Responsibility" folks would tell the people in it to get a job or a better education. Maybe a dose of their own teachings would go a long way.
10
Sounds like we can summarize this point of view as: Let do something, even if it's wrong. To put a sharper point on it, I guess the potential for nuclear war as a few hundred thousand American troops fight and die to plunder Iraq's oil signifies real change.
10
America was built by people who left their homelands to find a better future for their children so how come the folks in coal country are unable to change?
Is it the meth? Is it the heroin? Is it their education?
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different outcome
Is it the meth? Is it the heroin? Is it their education?
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different outcome
9
And yet not a word about their Senator, Mitch McConnell, one of the biggest obstructionists ever to walk the halls of Congress. I'll bet they all voted for him.
They made their beds by choosing Republicans. Now they have to lie in them. And lying down is how many of them might end up, as their current governor is bent on destroying all the progress made by the previous administration in implementing Obamacare.
I'm sorry to sound snobbish, but if they have so much idle time on their hands, maybe they need to pick up a book or newspaper now and then, find out what's really going on and see how bad Trump would be for them and the rest of the country. So much information is available for free in today's America that it's hard to believe anyone could be so ignorant. Do they not have libraries in Kentucky?
They made their beds by choosing Republicans. Now they have to lie in them. And lying down is how many of them might end up, as their current governor is bent on destroying all the progress made by the previous administration in implementing Obamacare.
I'm sorry to sound snobbish, but if they have so much idle time on their hands, maybe they need to pick up a book or newspaper now and then, find out what's really going on and see how bad Trump would be for them and the rest of the country. So much information is available for free in today's America that it's hard to believe anyone could be so ignorant. Do they not have libraries in Kentucky?
17
I have news for Appalachians, coal is gone for good. Like the autoworkers in Detroit, the Cattle ranchers of the West, and other industries that brought wealth to relatively uneducated people and helped build a strong middle class; the status quo has been changed forever. To vote for either candidate under the assumption that they will "Bring Back the Jobs", is to deny the reality of the way technology has permanently changed jobs in this and other countries. Neither one of the people you vote for, have it in their power to change that. And as usual, they are feeding you lies to get your vote, anyway. What America has to understand is that they better get over feeling sorry for themselves, and start acting like they're in the 21st not the 19th century. Coal is gone, manufacturing jobs, gone. Forever. Get on board with clean energy, and maybe you'll have a future. Wring your hands, wail about the past, and you'll get nowhere.
14
Trump understands that people are angry.
When angry, people are prone to do irrational things - like vote for Trump.
Its working folks.
When angry, people are prone to do irrational things - like vote for Trump.
Its working folks.
5
Churchill said the best argument against democracy is to spend five minutes with the average voter. He'd never been to KY or he might have reduced the five minute requirement.
8
"the liberal intellectual arrogance that dismisses the economic, social and cultural problems his [Trump] rise has underscored"
What? That sentiment of 'intellectual arrogance' isn't coming from liberals, its coming from rapacious Republicans who are time and again willing to use voters as pawns in their grand electoral strategies to prevent Democrats from doing anything to make a difference, even if it means disenfranchising voters. Because...winning. That is the arrogance of Republicans: to believe they know so much better what people 'need' as to nullify who people can or want to vote for. Where I come from we call that 'cheating' and undemocratic.
FDR and others were able do things because they still had a political opposition that saw 'winning' as secondary to country.
What? That sentiment of 'intellectual arrogance' isn't coming from liberals, its coming from rapacious Republicans who are time and again willing to use voters as pawns in their grand electoral strategies to prevent Democrats from doing anything to make a difference, even if it means disenfranchising voters. Because...winning. That is the arrogance of Republicans: to believe they know so much better what people 'need' as to nullify who people can or want to vote for. Where I come from we call that 'cheating' and undemocratic.
FDR and others were able do things because they still had a political opposition that saw 'winning' as secondary to country.
8
"I've never been this political."
Look where that has gotten us.
We all need to be political, county, state to federal level.
Otherwise the crooks and lobbyists take over.
Look where that has gotten us.
We all need to be political, county, state to federal level.
Otherwise the crooks and lobbyists take over.
5
If these people want to commit suicide, why wait until November, when apparently they'll try to take us all with them?
Why wait? Just do it now and get it over with. And leave the rest of us who want to live alive to do just that.
I have no more respect or sympathy for these people than I do for someone who commits suicide by driving his car the wrong way on the freeway, knowing he'll die, and also knowing he'll take innocent people with him. Reprehensible behavior is reprehensible behavior.
I've been poor, and I know what it feels like to be down in the dumps about it. But no matter how bad things got, I knew it was on me to make things better. So I did. Am I rich now? Nope. But I'm doing pretty well and, at age 67, I'm happy to be alive. And I want to go to my grave knowing that other humans will be alive to carry on, to engage in the ongoing struggle that is human life on this planet, and to score the occasional victory.
Guaranteed good outcome? Nope. But it's always worth a shot. And you have to be alive to take that shot. No way I'd ever vote for Trump. He, and the GOP, are agents of death and destruction.
Why wait? Just do it now and get it over with. And leave the rest of us who want to live alive to do just that.
I have no more respect or sympathy for these people than I do for someone who commits suicide by driving his car the wrong way on the freeway, knowing he'll die, and also knowing he'll take innocent people with him. Reprehensible behavior is reprehensible behavior.
I've been poor, and I know what it feels like to be down in the dumps about it. But no matter how bad things got, I knew it was on me to make things better. So I did. Am I rich now? Nope. But I'm doing pretty well and, at age 67, I'm happy to be alive. And I want to go to my grave knowing that other humans will be alive to carry on, to engage in the ongoing struggle that is human life on this planet, and to score the occasional victory.
Guaranteed good outcome? Nope. But it's always worth a shot. And you have to be alive to take that shot. No way I'd ever vote for Trump. He, and the GOP, are agents of death and destruction.
17
Trump loves the uneducated. Apparently, the uneducated ( or under educated) love him back.
5
But, I ask, isn’t that dangerous?
“I don’t care. After all we’ve been through, I just don’t care.”
This is truly scary. But fortunately, even if every single person in Kentucky votes for Trump, Kentucky still only gets 8 electoral votes.
“I don’t care. After all we’ve been through, I just don’t care.”
This is truly scary. But fortunately, even if every single person in Kentucky votes for Trump, Kentucky still only gets 8 electoral votes.
8
I feel no sympathy for these people. Its called globalization, the West invented it. There were no articles written about the Bengali weavers put out of work by the Industrial revolution. If you want to roll back the clock, why not back to when North America was a pristine farmland with gentle Native Americans.
11
So Cindy Hedges runs a business with no regular hours and expects that a change to Trump will improve her lot. Very few small businesses survive with this type of customer philosophy regardless of who is POTUS.
10
This is the result of American neglect of human potential in a time when we should have been preparing for international competition. Now we have a large segment of uneducated, noncompetitive people who are angry and ready to vote for a demagogue.
You make your bed, and then you lie in it.
You make your bed, and then you lie in it.
6
Mr. Cohen, you mentioned "the liberal intellectual arrogance that dismisses the economic, social and cultural problems his rise has underscored."
There may be liberal intellectual arrogance that is dismissive of some things, but absolutely not about the economic problems which the Republicans largely have caused. Liberals are not all wealthy, you know. As for social and cultural problems, if you mean Trump supporters' anger about being called out for racism, misogyny and intolerance, I guess I am dismissive of that. But I don't call believing in equal rights/opportunity for all people intellectual arrogance.
There may be liberal intellectual arrogance that is dismissive of some things, but absolutely not about the economic problems which the Republicans largely have caused. Liberals are not all wealthy, you know. As for social and cultural problems, if you mean Trump supporters' anger about being called out for racism, misogyny and intolerance, I guess I am dismissive of that. But I don't call believing in equal rights/opportunity for all people intellectual arrogance.
9
It is real hard to feel any sympathy for these folks. I try, but it is people like these that have given us Reagan and bush ii. They have voted against their own best interests for decades and it has hurt the entire Nation.
If not for the tax money from the airy-fairy liberals in Blue states they would all be starving.
Coal mining and large scale timber operations are a thing of the past. We don't need the product and it is against the best interests of human beings to keep cutting down the lungs of our planet while belching coal smoke carbon into the void.
Can't make a living in Hazard.....do what the "illegals" do. Move someplace where you can find a job. People have been doing that for millions of years. We certainly won't be doing that, or anything else, in another million years if we keep using coal.
If not for the tax money from the airy-fairy liberals in Blue states they would all be starving.
Coal mining and large scale timber operations are a thing of the past. We don't need the product and it is against the best interests of human beings to keep cutting down the lungs of our planet while belching coal smoke carbon into the void.
Can't make a living in Hazard.....do what the "illegals" do. Move someplace where you can find a job. People have been doing that for millions of years. We certainly won't be doing that, or anything else, in another million years if we keep using coal.
13
Despite that nice smile in his profile picture, Roger Cohen is every bit the charming sociopath. Any intelligent person can see through this article that Cohen has used the people in this article as surrogates for his disdain for 1. Obama 2. Clinton 3. The Democrats. His tries to mix in a few sentences about that it is society moving away from coal and not Obama. Cohen is a war hawk and has had it in for Obama for not getting the country more involved militarily with Syria and ISIS. Everything else is a ruse. You want to help the people in Kentucky, Roger? Cut the military budget in half and give then a basic income or invest in clean energy. Much of the country understands that climate change (i.e. coal) is bad and our constant wars are bankrupting the country. I am not a fan of Obama but in this case he is just the messenger that the 1950's are over and we need to help move forward not backward. Clean, Fossil Fuel Free, sustainable energy and no more wars. Why doesn't Cohen tell some of his oligarchy friends to donate some of their millions to help the people in the article?? That would be a solution and Roger Cohen is Donald Trump lite, looking for someone to blame.
3
The politicians didn't kill coal. Natural gas did. Gas is cheaper and cleaner and we have 100 years worth of it. Trump can't bring back coal. By the time the price of natural gas increases, we will have wind and solar to replace it.
Also, mountain-top removal mining killed coal jobs. Deep mining is labor intensive. Mountain top removal is machine intensive.
Also, mountain-top removal mining killed coal jobs. Deep mining is labor intensive. Mountain top removal is machine intensive.
13
When people start to vote emotionally to elect somebody they believe is going to "Make America Great Again" with total disregard of his -- mostly non-existing policies -- America has a problem. It seems as if the last bit of trust in the political system and politicians has vanished and people are desperately clinging to what they believe is their only hope. A candidate who wants to bring America back to its glorious days. Blinded by that promise and their own desperation they don't realize that what they are really voting for, is a hollow figurehead with no substance. His only true capability: to read this kind of audience and tell them what they want to hear.
9
Nearly 100% of American Republicans don't seem to care that the Republican party foists no-counts like Trump and Sara Palin on them.
But I care.
I don't want to be in a plane piloted by a fool and I guess I don't want a bunch of foolish Americans deciding who is going to be driving.
Get me out of here.
But I care.
I don't want to be in a plane piloted by a fool and I guess I don't want a bunch of foolish Americans deciding who is going to be driving.
Get me out of here.
13