Trump's 'plan' was the usual boiler plate claptrap from the GOP. Nothing will ever happen to truly address the undocumented in this country. Employers, particularly Republicans, want cheap labor without having to provide security or basic working conditions. The undocumented tolerate the threat of deportation for the opportunity to provide for their families. The undocumented will never vote Republicans, therefore they will never get full status. Like blacks and gays in past elections, the undocumented will have to suffer the slings and arrows of those who have no true interest in solving this 'problem.' We know why Trump has brought up the issue, but others don't want to come up with a remedy.
13
With regard to breaking the law, are we not complicit? Did we not encourage and enable these "criminals" by offering them jobs that no Americans would take at substandard wages with no benefits? Come on people where is your compassion and where is your common sense? Who will mow your lawn, clean your house, pick your fruit or care for your kids, if not these "criminals". We need them as much as they need us and it's high time that we figure out how to decriminalize these essential contributors and integrate them into society. Mass deportation is both cruel and stupid.
28
Immigrant here (legal). I am having a hard time understanding what claim anyone who is here illegally has to stay in this country.
I recognize that many of these illegals (please spare me the insidious use of "unauthorized" as this editorial does, to soft pedal the facts) are hard working and decent people, who mean no harm, but that dos not give them or their children the right to stay here simply because they managed to sneak in. There are laws and way to come here and those who flout them should not be rewarded. Sorry.
I recognize that many of these illegals (please spare me the insidious use of "unauthorized" as this editorial does, to soft pedal the facts) are hard working and decent people, who mean no harm, but that dos not give them or their children the right to stay here simply because they managed to sneak in. There are laws and way to come here and those who flout them should not be rewarded. Sorry.
22
Mr. Trump's "plans" are expensive and in most cases not useful. Will he remove illegal immigrant parents from their legally American children? Who will take care of those children? Will he send children brought to this country as toddlers and infants "back" to a country they don't remember? How much will this cost in financial terms? Mightn't that money be better spent on infrastructure and the poor? This would create jobs of substance and make a real difference in American lives. Mr. Trump's plan is xenophobic, unrealistic and obnoxious.
7
Trumps comments on the subject of immigration Wed. was just one of the many reasons why he is a danger to the country and not even remotely qualified to be president. Nov. 8th can't come soon enough. What a pleasure it will be not to listen to Trump speak anymore, about any of the issues that concern our country.
7
The Romney 2012 plan, in a nutshell
Temporary legalization for a period sufficient to permit adequate preparation for self-repatriation, prompted by the prospect of assured job deprivation, effected by national extension and enforcement of e-Verification. These elements in Romney's plan, had they been adopted, would long since have laid to rest the strawperson of mass-deportation, discouraged emulation, and effected gradual relief the bane of illegal immigration—and those positive outcomes would be realized if they were adopted today.
Temporary legalization for a period sufficient to permit adequate preparation for self-repatriation, prompted by the prospect of assured job deprivation, effected by national extension and enforcement of e-Verification. These elements in Romney's plan, had they been adopted, would long since have laid to rest the strawperson of mass-deportation, discouraged emulation, and effected gradual relief the bane of illegal immigration—and those positive outcomes would be realized if they were adopted today.
5
The only way Trump can achieve and his vow to stop all inner city crime "on day one" is to have a militarized police force like in countries with totalitarian governments.
Is this what Trump is planning for the US?
Is this what Trump is planning for the US?
9
Trump has not changed his policy on immagration, he has just worded where it sounds like he has. He basically has been saying this all along through out his campaign. I am Hispanic and still backing Trump to stop the corruption in our government and white house
5
At least Donald Trump is talking about doing something about immigration. Where's Hillary? Oh yeah, she has other people doing her campaigning for her. And why not. She didn't earn the nomination herself in the first place, it was handed to her by the dnc. I hope Trump realizes soon that there is nothing he can say or do to win over the minority voters. What was he suppose to do be disrespectful to the leader of our southern neighbor? There's no pleasing some people.
9
The tone of speech was tough, as you would expect from "law and order," candidate, but the content was very clear - no deporting of law-abiding illegal immigrants, just deport those that are criminals.
In fact, he left a door open, just slightly, to possible legal status for illegal immigrants: "[after the] .. establishment of our new lawful immigration system then and only then will we be in a position to consider the appropriate disposition of those individuals who remain."
The NYT editors are again hyperventilating and misrepresenting the facts, because in their mind, the voters are too stupid to know which candidate is good for the country, and it is NYT editors' patriarchal duty to steer the voters the right way.
In fact, he left a door open, just slightly, to possible legal status for illegal immigrants: "[after the] .. establishment of our new lawful immigration system then and only then will we be in a position to consider the appropriate disposition of those individuals who remain."
The NYT editors are again hyperventilating and misrepresenting the facts, because in their mind, the voters are too stupid to know which candidate is good for the country, and it is NYT editors' patriarchal duty to steer the voters the right way.
12
Many Americans misapply disparate impact doctrine to U.S. immigration laws. Since most of those who break immigration laws are disproportionately Hispanic, they think immigration laws are racist and should not be enforced against Hispanics. However, those who commit murders are also disproportionately members of a minority group. Do they think homicide laws are racist and should not be enforced?
14
I think America needs a little touch of Sparta. We coddle youth. Make them work the jobs illegal immigrants conveniently fill. Make serving the "homeland" for two years a duty of all American youth-no exceptions. Maybe such service would wean most from their addiction to violent video games.
14
It's gotten to the point that there's no need to even read the Times editorials about politics or public policy. It'll always be an anti-Trump tirade.
In fact, the Times of old has been replaced by opinion laced articles on its front pages masquerading as factually neutral news. So there really is no need to read Editorials. The so-called news will always be the mirror image of the Times far left onslaught on Republicans and Donald Trump in particular.
Readers should skip the Editorials and just read the Front Page for a strong dose of the Times biased opinions.
In fact, the Times of old has been replaced by opinion laced articles on its front pages masquerading as factually neutral news. So there really is no need to read Editorials. The so-called news will always be the mirror image of the Times far left onslaught on Republicans and Donald Trump in particular.
Readers should skip the Editorials and just read the Front Page for a strong dose of the Times biased opinions.
15
From here, Trump appears to be an orange coloured sleazy businessman with an overinflated sense of himself. It is hard to believe what is going on in the United States or as one person I know calls it "The Excited States of America". Here is a report on his use of illegal aliens that is in the Canadian media http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/modern-slavery-of-vulnurable-yo....
5
One of the ugliest, most thuggish speeches ever uttered by a candidate for the Presidency.
11
I find it disappointing that the Times still lends credence to anything Donald Trump says. His "platform" is simply empty words aimed at bamboozling angry and frustrated Americans into voting for him. To him, running for office is simply a game in which he will say or do anything that will make him the "winner" and the other person, whoever that might be, the "loser". He really has no idea what's going on in the world, or in the U.S. If you look at his explanations of his "positions" you find emptiness -- nothing there. He's a complete con man and the show must go on, even if people catch him in the act of flip-flopping or making ridiculous statements Yet I'm sure my pointing this out, as it has been said already so many times, will do little or nothing to dissuade some Americans from not only taking what he's saying seriously, but even to vote for him, as his appeal to people's baser instincts makes many a direct hit. Let us pray that there are enough of us who can spot a charlatan when we see one to keep this hurricane from making landfall.
9
And yet your paper is doing its best to try to make this a close race with endless front-page stories about innocuous Clinton emails and the Clinton Foundation. Will you and the rest of the press ever get around to hounding Trump about whether he plans to shut down every single one of his business interests, including his children's involvement, to avoid his own serious conflicts of interest?? I can't imagine Trump doing that when he won't even release his tax returns, and yet the conflicts would be rife and much more serious than those involving the Clinton Foundation.
8
A President enforces the country's laws, not pick and choose what he will and won't enforce. Secure the borders first: physically, electronically and with federal law enforcement, then deport illegal criminals and finally decide what to do with the civilized illegals; the most likely solution is to give them legal status Building a political base at the expense of the nations sovereignty as the current administration is doing is wrong and un-American. .
6
Trump consistently has said that the deporting of immigrants, here because they overstayed their visas or came illegally , will begin on day 1, hour 1 of his administration. For that to work, shouldn't Trump be creating his Deportation Force right now, so they are ready to go on "Day 1?" Obviously, he isn't doing that - the whole thing is a scam.
9
If the entire NYT Editorial Board is going to editorialize on Trump's immigration speech, one of you should have at least listened to it. The glaring omission in Trump's speech was the absence of a plan was for the millions of undocumented workers who have not brushed up against law enforcement or welfare officials. His only comment was that their path to legalization required returning to their home country and waiting their turn in the immigration process. His plan is very capable of being attacked on its substantive content and for what he left out. You have not done that here.
3
Am I correct that the the category "nativists" is imaginary, except where it might reference American Indians - also nearly imaginary due to government practices regarding who is in or out? Beyond this, who can claim "nativist" status in this country? NOTE: Spell check appears not to recognize it - telling? If a black child born in the U.S. today with 400 years of slavery as a family tradition is not a "native", who is?
4
Trump is absolutely unqualified for presidency based on this week's performance; pretending to be a friend while in Mexico (and lying publicly) and then after crossing border to US turning into an angry Chihuahua barking the long-waited anti-Mexican immigration & trade speech. He is the least trustworthy low life liar who should himself be deported to Russia. "I am friend of Mexicans" -message in the morning and "Mexican's are our worst enemy" in the evening.
6
A realistic and more nuanced approach would be, in larger communities, to focus on the day labor sites where many undocumented go to day jobs that pay cash. Begin cracking down on those on a daily basis while maintaining "eyes" for where others are popping up and solutions are developed.
3
Lawrence O' Donnell has been critical of those who are not sufficiently focused on the "appropriate disposition" language that the Trump campaign cynically slipped past his low-info audience. Okay, there is that. There is some equivocation. But, point no.2 "illegal immigrants who are arrested for any crime whatsoever...will be placed into immediate removal proceedings,” potentially allows Trump to arrest people on the basis of being 'illegal' without being caught in a traffic violation, for example - the crime, Trump can argue, has already been committed, so on that basis, mass deportation is still, even if more ambiguously, in his platform.
4
I would like to see Trump star by his wife. I find it extremely hard to believe that, when she first arrived, she did not work on a tourist or visitor visa. Or, that she left the country and to switch her tourist visa for a work one, and only when she got it reenter the US. Where is the journalistic work following her steps as an immigrant before she became a citizen? I want to see Trump applying his proposals evenly across the board, including to his wife.
3
The system Trump described already exists in Arizona and much of America. In Arizona, Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio routinely raids places of employment and rounds up people who don't have their papers. A Hispanic woman born in Arizona was arrested at the McDonald's where she worked and held for deportation for more than a day. Moreover, the system of deporting the worst criminals first and letting law-abiding aliens take a back seat is EXACTLY the Obama plan that Republicans went to court to halt. Obama's system was simply "the worst first," so that valuable resources would not be wasted on productive residents of the U.S. If I were Hillary in the debate, I would put it this way: "I guess you didn't hear the widely reported story that deportations are at record levels, that more Mexicans are leaving the U.S. than entering and that illegal immigration has been falling steadily since 2008. Perhaps they didn't report that on Fox News."
4
Honestly, it just gets curious-er and curious-er. It certainly helps not to have access to a television. And all the trees in Vermont are a perfect distraction to the outside world. I don't want to drown myself, but my head certainly explodes when I read stuff like this.
3
Why Trump will be president. Such a systematic deportation plan, his not democrat, will decimate SEIU and prove a valuable lesson to labor leaders who thought the little known gold mine of union dues and the sanctuary cities that make the crime syndicate possible would never cease to be. Look on the bright side that although these undocumented workers won't be here, they will be there, wherever. Spreading the hotel skills, the collective union mentality, skimming membership dues and making home countries better by electing a different, by name only, Obama, Maduro, or Sanders. Good riddance.
1
Trump's "sanctuary cities" slogans is a rehash of the alleged "no go zones" where police were claimed to fear to go in Europe.
In constitutional terms it is a disaster. We have a federal-state separation in the US that denies any role to states in immigration law. When community police sign on as agents of determining one's citizenship, all the rules of justice fly out the window, and the police are converted to a latter-day gestapo.
"Ending sanctuary cities" is the equivalent of saying "revoke the Constitution."
In constitutional terms it is a disaster. We have a federal-state separation in the US that denies any role to states in immigration law. When community police sign on as agents of determining one's citizenship, all the rules of justice fly out the window, and the police are converted to a latter-day gestapo.
"Ending sanctuary cities" is the equivalent of saying "revoke the Constitution."
5
This op-ed piece seems to legitimize illegal immigration. I don't want to see families torn about, and don't think it's necessary. But the blame lies with the parent or parents who came here illegally in the first place. They put their own children at great risk by having them here is the US.
The point is that a person coming here illegally is already a criminal in the eyes of the law. To be practical, and humane, we need to be selective in whom we choose to deport.
So while I'm ok making accommodations for families with hard-working and now law-abiding parents, anyone else should be deported. That's simply the law, right?
I don't like agreeing with the very disagreeable Marco Rubio. But he was right in the debates when he said the first point in his immigration policy is to enforce the laws already in place.
Like, duh.
The point is that a person coming here illegally is already a criminal in the eyes of the law. To be practical, and humane, we need to be selective in whom we choose to deport.
So while I'm ok making accommodations for families with hard-working and now law-abiding parents, anyone else should be deported. That's simply the law, right?
I don't like agreeing with the very disagreeable Marco Rubio. But he was right in the debates when he said the first point in his immigration policy is to enforce the laws already in place.
Like, duh.
9
Couldn't Mexico stymie Trump's plan by simply revoking/denying citizenship of those who emigrated? That would make them stateless people with nowhere to be deported to. The alternative is getting totally thrown into a long-term national economic depression by an influx of 11 million now-homeless, jobless, penniless refugees, many of whom are effectively from a different culture and aren't educated in the language. For those youths pulled from American schools, there's nowhere to even finish their education in English. It shouldn't be any problem to "trump up" a justification for revoking citizenship from these people who abandoned their home country.
1
I agree wholeheartedly. The picture of America I saw painted in that speech was a 1930s police state Germany where police routinely invade minority neighborhoods to look for "illegals" and everyone needs to carry their proof of citizenship papers at all times.
Whether or not Trump would have the power to make that happen is beside the point. This is the vision he is selling. It is terrifying. I used to think Trump was harmless because he was a windbag who would say anything. But then I actually watched a whole speech instead of sound bites. It is time to stop treating this man like a joke.
Trump is inviting a fear and racism that needs to be resoundingly rejected. We are all immigrants or children of immigrants. The fascist state of hate that Trump is selling is not my America, and I will do my best to make sure it never is.
Whether or not Trump would have the power to make that happen is beside the point. This is the vision he is selling. It is terrifying. I used to think Trump was harmless because he was a windbag who would say anything. But then I actually watched a whole speech instead of sound bites. It is time to stop treating this man like a joke.
Trump is inviting a fear and racism that needs to be resoundingly rejected. We are all immigrants or children of immigrants. The fascist state of hate that Trump is selling is not my America, and I will do my best to make sure it never is.
11
After reading this editorial, I was struck by how our very democratic beliefs are truly at stake. This year's election is about whether the United States will survive as a democracy or not....nothing more and nothing less.
As a white, Caucasian, senior citizen, who as a young child lived through World War11 and subsequent conflicts as an adult; I have seen evil rear its ugly head during McCarthyism and in the South during the Civil Rights Movement. I know exactly where I was when President Kennedy and Martin Luther King were assassinated. I have never before witnessed the vitriol; the blatant lies, the hatred that is being spewed now.
For eight years, the Congress has refused to have civil discourse about immigration, among other things. For longer than that, the Republican have been fanning the flames in which we are now engulfed. I liken Mitchell, Ryan and their ilk to the "good Germans," who allowed the Holocaust to exist.
That the architects of the Iraq war were not tried in Belgium; that the Wall Street giants are back to making the billions they were prior to 2008 is abominable. There is little doubt that we need a peaceful restructuring and constructive discussions about our government. To quibble over the Republican candidate's every speech and every word misses the point! I hope we have the intestinal fortitude to overcome this dark moment in our country's history.
As a white, Caucasian, senior citizen, who as a young child lived through World War11 and subsequent conflicts as an adult; I have seen evil rear its ugly head during McCarthyism and in the South during the Civil Rights Movement. I know exactly where I was when President Kennedy and Martin Luther King were assassinated. I have never before witnessed the vitriol; the blatant lies, the hatred that is being spewed now.
For eight years, the Congress has refused to have civil discourse about immigration, among other things. For longer than that, the Republican have been fanning the flames in which we are now engulfed. I liken Mitchell, Ryan and their ilk to the "good Germans," who allowed the Holocaust to exist.
That the architects of the Iraq war were not tried in Belgium; that the Wall Street giants are back to making the billions they were prior to 2008 is abominable. There is little doubt that we need a peaceful restructuring and constructive discussions about our government. To quibble over the Republican candidate's every speech and every word misses the point! I hope we have the intestinal fortitude to overcome this dark moment in our country's history.
10
When our last 'illegal immigration' law was passed in the Reagan administration, the Republicans refused a system proposed by the Democrats that would have required employers to verify citizenship for new employees. Republicans claimed it was an undue burden on business. Hence, 11 million undocumented persons living and working in the U.S. Donald Trump now crows that he will set up that E-Verify system, but we will see how business owners like it now. It has been the wants of business that have drawn these people to the U.S. The position of Democrats has been that, if the undocumented are here working and providing a profit to business owners, then the undocumented should be treated as human beings and have a path to citizenship. Otherwise, they are an exploited permanent underclass that does pull down wages for the unskilled.
2
Between his war on undocumented (illegal) immigrants and his so-called “law-and-order” presidency, his disdain for media and call to loosen libel law so publications can more readily be sued, his call for Nationalism and that patriotism be “taught” in schools, so that ideologically, we become “one country” with one set of “values” and culture, what Trump is describing is nothing less than a Fascist police state. Not to mention that the amount of dollars and resources that would be devoted to this one idea – building a wall (which by the way is useless, considering the use of tunnels), multiplying the number of border agents, etc. – would remove resources from every other endeavor. And it would be useless because the number of “illegal” immigrants flowing across the border is down to a record low. More critical to America’s well-being is action on climate and the environment. These are real crises that impact our communities. But in Trump World, these are not concerns at all; he would unleash the floodgates of corporate greed by overturning regulations. But there would be no more money for disaster relief.
7
Not going to happen even if, God forbid, Trump actually wins.
First, it will be a real stretch to get Congress to appropriate funds. Second, we have a judicial system which most certainly will be called into play. Third, we have State's Attorney Generals who will not allow this to happen in many large population States (just imagine, for a second, California and New York). Fourth, we have a business community that would crash and burn if Trump's plan was executed (picture no more restaurants, crops rotting in fields and the housing industry decimated just as examples).
Just saying.
First, it will be a real stretch to get Congress to appropriate funds. Second, we have a judicial system which most certainly will be called into play. Third, we have State's Attorney Generals who will not allow this to happen in many large population States (just imagine, for a second, California and New York). Fourth, we have a business community that would crash and burn if Trump's plan was executed (picture no more restaurants, crops rotting in fields and the housing industry decimated just as examples).
Just saying.
4
If Paul Ryan and other Eepublican leaders think they can escape the consequences of supporting this mad man, they are mistaken. Their lack of integrity and backbone will mark them forever. Life offers everyone tests. They failed this one.
15
Every year about 40 million people move in the US.
The logistics of moving the illegal immigrants is just a red herring.
Once Trump cuts off the welfare benefits (there are too many to enumerate) they will be moving back on their own.
The logistics of moving the illegal immigrants is just a red herring.
Once Trump cuts off the welfare benefits (there are too many to enumerate) they will be moving back on their own.
8
When you cut welfare benefits , you are cruelly killing your own citizen too.
Actually forget getting rid of Illegal immigrants , that action achieves even getting rid of poor, we will be living happily ever after in our USA.
Actually forget getting rid of Illegal immigrants , that action achieves even getting rid of poor, we will be living happily ever after in our USA.
1
the best way to deal with the problem of illegal immigration is to make it legal to enter the country and leave it at will through authorized crossing points. if we channel immigrants into established border crossings then we can more closely monitor those entering the country, and more effectively patrol the boarders and apprehend those crossing illegally (at non-authorized border crossings). if we allow people to enter the country freely most of them will at some point return to their country of origin. the fact that net immigration across the southern boarder is basically zero is a good indication that this is what will happen. most immigrants remain in the country permanently because its so hard to get in that once you are here its safer to remain rather that go home.
1
As a Canadian watching the spectacle of Trump with horror, I would just add my perception that the white population of the US never fails to disappoint. From the myth of Reagan to the re-election of Dubyah to the support for Trump, everyone else in the world, and the African Americans, Hispanics, and Asians in the US, see what's going on. It seems that it's always the white people, and particularly the stupid, shallow evangelicals, who are taken in by Republican lies, vote Republican, have their trust betrayed as the cash flows to the 1% and the social fabric is torn apart -- both within the US and in the countries it invades -- and then fail to learn anything from the experience. The sooner the whites are in the minority the better.
13
Bryan Johnson:
It is not a matter of white vs. non-white. It is a question of the law. Canadians have made it very difficult for anyone to illegally move there. The United States has a minimum of 11 to 12 million illegal immigrants. Canada has only a couple of thousand.
A few years ago, Canadians voted by two-thirds to deport the couple of thousand illegal immigrants, saying they had broken the law of the land.
People want to move to our countries because we make and follow the laws.
It is not a matter of white vs. non-white. It is a question of the law. Canadians have made it very difficult for anyone to illegally move there. The United States has a minimum of 11 to 12 million illegal immigrants. Canada has only a couple of thousand.
A few years ago, Canadians voted by two-thirds to deport the couple of thousand illegal immigrants, saying they had broken the law of the land.
People want to move to our countries because we make and follow the laws.
10
It freaks reactionary Republicans OUT when you point out that Deportations are included in the definition of ethnic cleansing!
“Ethnic cleansing” has been defined as the attempt to get rid of (through deportation, displacement or even mass killing) members of an unwanted ethnic group in order to establish an ethnically homogenous geographic area.
“Ethnic cleansing” has been defined as the attempt to get rid of (through deportation, displacement or even mass killing) members of an unwanted ethnic group in order to establish an ethnically homogenous geographic area.
7
So I sit down in the Bethesda, MD Starbucks sipping my burnt coffee after DHLing a package this AM. This 60+ guy named Chris (I knew it was a mistake to sit at that table, but the others were filled) introduces himself, saying he's back from 9 months in sunny FL after 2 girlfriends strung out on drugs didn't work out. Estimating my age, he frustratingly (for both of us) interrogates me about various local bands and venues, thinking about his preferred the music of Woodstock, which he attended when he was 17. Stating that Starbucks was his retirement "office", he laments the lack of work in FL because immigrants took it all. Don't know about you but I'm voting for Trump. Are you a Rep or Dem? I'm an Ind (had to say that twice). He would take a job if only a guy would teach him (on the job) about auto detailing (read: washing a car, to me). Did I work? I work at a clinic, part time. Do I have any work for him. Said sorry but we're full up at the moment. Besides, you'll have to be fluent in Spanish. He rose and bothered someone else's morning.
6
How ironic is it that according to Trump, illegal immigrants are are a danger to our society and need to be stopped. No, it is Mr.Trump that needs to be stopped. He's done and will do if elected more damage to our country than almost all illegals.
4
Enforce the law, use E-Verify.
11
I do not know what world you are living but my wife is an immigrant from Europe , and immigration policy in this country and rules are though. e-verify is already there and working, where it is not working it will never work, go check how Melania Trump first set foot in this country.
3
Drumpf is the biggest con artist and liar we have ever witnessed in american politics.
How ANYONE could vote for this reality tv clown to be the President of the USA is laughable.
How ANYONE could vote for this reality tv clown to be the President of the USA is laughable.
7
The undocumented make up less than 2% of those in the US. Yet, Trump wants to blame them for all of America's problems and spend trillions getting rid of them.
It's the normal style of fascists to focus anger on small, hated minority groups. We sheep use all our energy to rail against the undocumented while the wealthy continues to move tax dollars to their own coffers.
It's the normal style of fascists to focus anger on small, hated minority groups. We sheep use all our energy to rail against the undocumented while the wealthy continues to move tax dollars to their own coffers.
12
To EC:
We do not know how many people are living here without documents. The Census Bureau relies on self-reporting. Chances are that many of the undocumented do not self-report. See the paper on the Census Bureau's web site by Eric B. Jensen, Renuka Bhaskar, and Melissa Scopilliti of the Population Division. In June 2015, they wrote the following:
"The foreign born, especially recent immigrants, are believed to be a hard-to-count group which increases the likelihood of coverage error for this population. In fact, research has shown that English language ability, literacy skills, understanding of the census, residential attachment, and legal status are all factors that contribute to coverage error in censuses and surveys (Fein and West 1988; Iversen, Furstenberg and Belzer 1999; Martin 2007; Massey and Capoferro 2004). Because of data limitations, there have been no studies that empirically measure the coverage of the foreign-born population in the ACS."
We do not know how many people are living here without documents. The Census Bureau relies on self-reporting. Chances are that many of the undocumented do not self-report. See the paper on the Census Bureau's web site by Eric B. Jensen, Renuka Bhaskar, and Melissa Scopilliti of the Population Division. In June 2015, they wrote the following:
"The foreign born, especially recent immigrants, are believed to be a hard-to-count group which increases the likelihood of coverage error for this population. In fact, research has shown that English language ability, literacy skills, understanding of the census, residential attachment, and legal status are all factors that contribute to coverage error in censuses and surveys (Fein and West 1988; Iversen, Furstenberg and Belzer 1999; Martin 2007; Massey and Capoferro 2004). Because of data limitations, there have been no studies that empirically measure the coverage of the foreign-born population in the ACS."
6
Trump is over the top, but you don't have to be racist or intolerant to be sick and tired of being told illegal immigration is no problemo.
12
Trump´s policy on immigration will put the country into a constitutional crisis. He has insulted all Mexicans beyond repair. Isolating this ethnic group is a big mistake. His rhetoric should have been on controlling illegal immigration standardizing to include illegal foreign immigrants in general as Obama has been undergoing but bullying, slandering, humiliating a certain ethnic community is not a very statesman approach for a presidential candidate. He is violating a constitutional right. Particularly the Fourteenth amendment. The US has proudly stood as a race of nations. His speeches are very fascist in nature something the US can not afford or need to have. History has shown what extreme views can do. Undoing the progress of having made history of electing a African American president is not encouraging of social progress or change. Generalizing that only criminals are coming from Mexico is blasphemy. If Mexicans are to be compared from all the Latin countries they are the ones who have mostly contributed to the country´s industries. Yes, the Mexicans have contributed to it. Furthermore, there are many Mexican Americans that are highly successful and are actively contributing to our society. He is pinpointing that only criminals are coming from Mexico. This is undemocratic, ridiculous and untrue in all his views and statements.
3
What if the "illegal's" don't want to go?
Mr. Trump seems to forget all the time and incredible expense in the LOOOOOONG stand-off in sending Elian Gonzalez back to Cuba. tsk, tsk.
Additionally, by my math, it will take a little over 183,000 bus-load's to ship them out! (11,000,000/60 passengers per bus). tsk, tsk II. Time to buy stock in Greyhound! haha.
Mr. Trump seems to forget all the time and incredible expense in the LOOOOOONG stand-off in sending Elian Gonzalez back to Cuba. tsk, tsk.
Additionally, by my math, it will take a little over 183,000 bus-load's to ship them out! (11,000,000/60 passengers per bus). tsk, tsk II. Time to buy stock in Greyhound! haha.
2
If there are 11 million illegal immigrants working in this country, that represents an awful lot of American employers "breaking the law", yet people usually vilify the immigrant as the law breaker. We have a long history of bringing immigrants to be exploited and discriminated against as they built up our industries and made some white men very rich. They were at least allowed to become citizens. Today we don't want them, persecuting them even as our businesses keep hiring them. The businesses blame spoiled Americans for not being interested in those jobs, when in fact 'working poor' citizens continue to do these jobs every day. Rich hotel owners claim they can't afford to pay a living wage; restaurant owners say they would have to shut down, or charge too-high prices. Perhaps we don't need a restaurant every fifty feet in every city. Maybe we don't need to eat out every day. Or maybe we need to do something about the fact that the cost of living today is simply insane. In 1979 my husband's pre-tax annual wage was $29k. We owned an almost-new 3 BR ranch with a big yard, bought for $34,500. We had two late model cars, two children, and I didn't work outside the home. I now live 5 miles from that house, and the last time it was sold the owner got $185k for it. They sold because they couldn't afford it, both working, one degreed. Our problems ultimately stem from the unbridled greed of those running the show; they deflect the blame by pitting us against each other.
13
If the D is elected president (highly unlikely according to the current data trends) I would like to see a wall on the northern border (please). I am happy to help pay for it. Oh and please make it impenetrable.
14
I agree on that That Canadian border is very lousy , here in NY Plattsburg , you are almost feeling like border between Germany and France.
Come Canadians you can do better, you do not know how to twist arms of Americans.
Show me your passport , southern. is a good start fro custom agents .
Come Canadians you can do better, you do not know how to twist arms of Americans.
Show me your passport , southern. is a good start fro custom agents .
Someone needs to warn that church in Detroit Trump is going to EPN them!
Instead of speaking to the congregation, Trump only agreed to speak with the pastor privately with no press, but NOW he's asking to speak to the congregation afterward.
He's gonna punk you folks like he punked the Mexican president! Let him speak first, THEN give your own assessment of the private Donald's word vs his passion plays to the public. Then let the press at him. Why not do what Jesus would? Turn the tables!
Instead of speaking to the congregation, Trump only agreed to speak with the pastor privately with no press, but NOW he's asking to speak to the congregation afterward.
He's gonna punk you folks like he punked the Mexican president! Let him speak first, THEN give your own assessment of the private Donald's word vs his passion plays to the public. Then let the press at him. Why not do what Jesus would? Turn the tables!
3
While I am not going to mention the historical 'Name' that is too often thrown around in referencing Trump, I would like to point out that the contrast between the Mexico visit and the Arizona speech is exactly what was seen in nearly all Fascist politicians of the early 20th century - facile tailoring of their 'views' to get the most favorable response from the local populace. Speeches and meetings with world leaders would be full of promises of fairness and leniency, while speeches to their most ardent supporters would promise extreme measures to ensure the purity of the nation. In the cases of those earlier authoritarians, the harsher message was usually closer to their eventual behavior.
In our day, the difference should be that media coverage exposes these inconsistencies, which were easier to hide before our saturated coverage. What is troubling to me is the fact that even clear coverage of this pandering approach seems to make no difference. Under the idea that there is no such thing as 'bad' publicity, the outrageousness of Trump's behavior seems to only get him more coverage, while Hillary is treated by the media as something in the background. When do we get coverage of her policies? Why is there no comparison being offered? The over-attention on Trump risks making him seem more important than the other candidate(s), and assists his efforts in hoodwinking the electorate.
In our day, the difference should be that media coverage exposes these inconsistencies, which were easier to hide before our saturated coverage. What is troubling to me is the fact that even clear coverage of this pandering approach seems to make no difference. Under the idea that there is no such thing as 'bad' publicity, the outrageousness of Trump's behavior seems to only get him more coverage, while Hillary is treated by the media as something in the background. When do we get coverage of her policies? Why is there no comparison being offered? The over-attention on Trump risks making him seem more important than the other candidate(s), and assists his efforts in hoodwinking the electorate.
6
Given the amount of staff the Trump campaign has gone through, one can only conclude there is no way to create a presidential caliber candidate out of a used property salesman whose greatest claim to fame is building vertical trailer parks.
3
The editorial board’s assertion that Donald Trump wants to remake America is silly. He hasn’t proposed any changes to immigration laws. He simply proposes to enforce the Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act of 1996 and the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1952. Both acts passed both houses with bipartisan majorities. Hillary Clinton proposes to remake Americans but not enforcing its immigration law. Both candidates strongly support a border barrier to keep out future illegal immigrants. Trump refers to a “Border Wall” instead of a “Border Fence,” but the Secure Fence Act doesn’t provide architectural specifications. During her campaign, Hillary Clinton said "I voted numerous times when I was a senator to spend money to build a barrier to try to prevent illegal immigrants from coming in. And I do think you have to control your borders." Hillary’s Border Fence serves the same purpose as Donald’s Border Wall.
8
If informed voters decide this election, Trump is done--please share this documented list of reasons to support Clinton, read by 13,300: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/open-letter-sanders-supporters-scott-s-sm...
1
I think his fixated on immigrants is the perfect distraction. It plays to "nativists" who make noise that distracts. And as president, it would create a huge distraction that would cover his business with money, money-people and who knows what else. But mostly it distracts Trump from the knowledge that he is void of any rational or otherwise useful ideas.
3
When will Trump's zealots begin to realize this odious excuse for a human being is taking them to the cleaners? What will they do when their false god is vanquished? Of course we expect they will pull out of their be-hinds the most convoluted conspiracies concocted to explain the catastrophe, as they will see it, of Trump's defeat.
One can only imagine how their feeble minds will be able to comprehend what has happened. How long will it take for them to understand how foolish they look? For some of them, never.
DD
Manhattan
One can only imagine how their feeble minds will be able to comprehend what has happened. How long will it take for them to understand how foolish they look? For some of them, never.
DD
Manhattan
3
It's sort of morbidly funny to watch Trumpy and his, ah, supporters cheer for radically expanding government and its authority, as well as throwing billions at walls, cops, and ICE agents.
I just keep wondering if any of these dolts have thought about what happens when you build the wall and chop trade with Mexico, then choke off $40 or $50 bil in remittances, then dump five or six million unemployed men, women and kids--heavily laced with criminals, according to Trumpy--on a country with Mexico's political, economic and criminal problems.
What's the plan for when their economy and gov collapse? A higher wall, or sending in troops?
I just keep wondering if any of these dolts have thought about what happens when you build the wall and chop trade with Mexico, then choke off $40 or $50 bil in remittances, then dump five or six million unemployed men, women and kids--heavily laced with criminals, according to Trumpy--on a country with Mexico's political, economic and criminal problems.
What's the plan for when their economy and gov collapse? A higher wall, or sending in troops?
5
Wow, NYT board, you have added SO many implementation details to Trump's concepts!
For example, "And this applies not just to immigrants, but to everyone who could be mistaken for one." -- do tell us, when did Trump say that, when implementing the concepts he presented, he will go after anyone who looks like an immigrant? And put them in jail in order to make that "gift to the private, for-profit prison industry"!
BTW, I am a registered democrat who has voted and will be voting again for Hillary.
For example, "And this applies not just to immigrants, but to everyone who could be mistaken for one." -- do tell us, when did Trump say that, when implementing the concepts he presented, he will go after anyone who looks like an immigrant? And put them in jail in order to make that "gift to the private, for-profit prison industry"!
BTW, I am a registered democrat who has voted and will be voting again for Hillary.
8
Trump, Trump, Trump, the NYTimes is so fixated on him and has completely stopped reporting on the lies of Hillary or the mess this president is leaving us.
I watched the movie The Martian for about the 7th times last night and realized that over the last 8 years America has needed and not gotten any type of win. This seems to be just what this president wanted to do, as he looked to change our country. Such a total lack of transparency as well. What a missed opportunity and pathetic shame.
The real facts about obamacare are kicking in and you have to be wealthy to afford an individual plan or else get a lower priced one that has such a high deductible that nothing ends up getting paid for by insurance. Such a poorly negotiated plan.
As bad is the hidden Iran deal. Facts are slowly starting to come out and again it was a horribly negotiated (if you can even use that term) plan that I hope I am not alive when Iran threatens to destroy Israel with their nuke capability, not far away!
No wins, no legacy, a wasted 8 years, which includes almost one full year of this president being on the golf course (290 days of golfing). So funny, golf is such an elitist white sport and it has opened it's doors for him, for now!
I watched the movie The Martian for about the 7th times last night and realized that over the last 8 years America has needed and not gotten any type of win. This seems to be just what this president wanted to do, as he looked to change our country. Such a total lack of transparency as well. What a missed opportunity and pathetic shame.
The real facts about obamacare are kicking in and you have to be wealthy to afford an individual plan or else get a lower priced one that has such a high deductible that nothing ends up getting paid for by insurance. Such a poorly negotiated plan.
As bad is the hidden Iran deal. Facts are slowly starting to come out and again it was a horribly negotiated (if you can even use that term) plan that I hope I am not alive when Iran threatens to destroy Israel with their nuke capability, not far away!
No wins, no legacy, a wasted 8 years, which includes almost one full year of this president being on the golf course (290 days of golfing). So funny, golf is such an elitist white sport and it has opened it's doors for him, for now!
5
wow. Really an amazing comment. So glad I took the time to read it. Great ending too, you really made us all think. You should write essays for a living.
1
If I was an immigrant, I'd pray Hillary wins. Also, what keeps "them" out, keeps us in! Scary!!
1
OK, why are the immigrants here? Because people will hire them and pay them. Simple. So jail the ANGLO employers, not the innocent employees who are just trying to make a buck. Then - and only then- will you see a drop in illegal immigration. Its very simple but then the big D would have to be jailed himself for using illegal labor on his building sites, etc...... gee, what a conundrum.
7
Trump changed immigration policy speech after Mexican president's tweet - Fox News
"A man you can bait with a tweet," Clinton said, "is not a man we can trust with nuclear weapons." - Democratic Convention Speech
Game, set, match. Game over.
"A man you can bait with a tweet," Clinton said, "is not a man we can trust with nuclear weapons." - Democratic Convention Speech
Game, set, match. Game over.
4
You really only need to say "game, set, match.". By saying "match" is provides the information that it is indeed "game over".
I agree very strongly with your statement that this will very easily lead to abuses. We are talking about very powerless people put into the hands of a system with very few checks or balances.
2
I have commented on this issue before , and I feel that I must do so again. I am an immigration attorney who has worked with undocumented individuals, mostly from Mexico. Everytime Donald Trump describes them in the vulgar terms he uses, I fill with rage. These people drive the agriculture economy in this state, and are hardworking family oriented people, who spend 10 to 12 hours working at all types of agricultural work that puts food on our tables. Are there bad ones? Of course there are. But there are plenty of white people who are drug dealers, rapists, drug users, etc. In other words, they are people just like anyone else. Finally, what really stokes the fires of my rage, is Trump's plan to deport dreamers. Almost exclusively these are young people who were brought to this country as babes in arms. They are just as American as any of my children. It infuriates me that we denigrate this resource because we don't want to recognize their unique predicament. Donald Trump is a political opportunist of the vilest sort, who would pick on individuals who have no voice, who cannot fight back, just because it will secure him the votes of the ignorant masses. It is not a crime to be in this country undocumented, except under limited circumstances, but it is a crime to employ unocumented workers. When Donald Trump gives a speech stating that he intends to arrest employers then maybe he'll be on to something. Until then he's just another loud mouth bully.
14
His speech marks a return to the infamous and rarely talked about Mexican Repatriation between 1929-1936 which was a forced return to Mexico of people of Mexican descent. The mandate was carried out without due process and targeted Mexicans in California, Texas, New Mexico and Texas because of the proximity of the Mexican border. Approximately 500,000 -2 million people of Mexican descent were forcibly repatriated. Of that 1.2 million were legal American citizens. If this man Trump doesn't scare the bejesus out of you, I don't know what would. Dangerous, dangerous man.
11
Sounds like an expansion of government-BIG government-doesn't he claim to be a Republican?
And it this sounds expensive. Who is going to pay for these "programs"? Sounds like the average taxpayer.
The jobs that will be created from these "programs" will not grow the economy nor build a viable industry. These job will NOT appeal to most people; they sound dangerous and probably will not pay well.
The more Trump tries to explain his "programs" the more he sounds like a racist demagogue using people on the low end of the totem pole as
scapegoats.
And BTW, the majority of people who immigrants pose an employment threat to is people on the very high end of the employment and education spectrum or the very low end. Most Americans do not fall into this category--so Mexicans really are being used as scapegoats. The Mexicans who I encounter in my wealthy NYC suburb are hard working honest and pleasant human beings who are landscapers and garbage collectors. Jobs most Americans do not dream of for their children's future. So lets get real. Trump is making empty promises to desperate, gullible and in some cases uninformed people who in many cases are looking for an easy answer. Grow up, there are no easy answers to complex problems.
I am disgusted by this clown and the fact that he has gotten this far.
This election will have many many books written about it, not the least of which will question how a sane county allowed this to happen. Sound familiar??
And it this sounds expensive. Who is going to pay for these "programs"? Sounds like the average taxpayer.
The jobs that will be created from these "programs" will not grow the economy nor build a viable industry. These job will NOT appeal to most people; they sound dangerous and probably will not pay well.
The more Trump tries to explain his "programs" the more he sounds like a racist demagogue using people on the low end of the totem pole as
scapegoats.
And BTW, the majority of people who immigrants pose an employment threat to is people on the very high end of the employment and education spectrum or the very low end. Most Americans do not fall into this category--so Mexicans really are being used as scapegoats. The Mexicans who I encounter in my wealthy NYC suburb are hard working honest and pleasant human beings who are landscapers and garbage collectors. Jobs most Americans do not dream of for their children's future. So lets get real. Trump is making empty promises to desperate, gullible and in some cases uninformed people who in many cases are looking for an easy answer. Grow up, there are no easy answers to complex problems.
I am disgusted by this clown and the fact that he has gotten this far.
This election will have many many books written about it, not the least of which will question how a sane county allowed this to happen. Sound familiar??
4
Uh-oh. Illegal immigrants come in all colors. I look Irish - am I safe in my birth country of the USA? Uh-oh.
3
" If you saw Mr. Trump’s speech, and you care about the country and values of tolerance and human rights and weren’t disgusted, you were either fooled, or not paying attention."
Part of this sentence should have been a major, bold black, headline, and the remainder of this editorial article should have followed on Thursday. Below this should have been, if necessary, Healy's article about Trump" pivot which of course was real only to NYT political reporters. After more than a year spewing whatever diatribe that entered his head, any mature, intelligent adult would not continue to indulge in the Republican's magical spells. As the Editors have written "........you were either fooled, or not paying attention".
Part of this sentence should have been a major, bold black, headline, and the remainder of this editorial article should have followed on Thursday. Below this should have been, if necessary, Healy's article about Trump" pivot which of course was real only to NYT political reporters. After more than a year spewing whatever diatribe that entered his head, any mature, intelligent adult would not continue to indulge in the Republican's magical spells. As the Editors have written "........you were either fooled, or not paying attention".
3
So there is a plan to Make America White Again! Who knew?
I suspect a lot of the millionaires and billionaires that support him also have large industrial farms, meat processing facilities and construction companies. I am surprised they have not yet told him to back off on the rhetoric...unless this is ploy to frighten the undocumented workers to accept even lower wages and live in slave like conditions. That I can believe.
For the foreseeable future, just like after 9/11, I will be from Sicily or my other standby Paraguay in South America. I better brush up on my fake Sicilian and Spanish...Bona notti, Reñe'êkuaápa guaraníme? That second phase is from Guarani, a Paraguayan language. Perfect! This will be like a long running Monty Python segment, "how to confuse the Trump deporters in chief."
I suspect a lot of the millionaires and billionaires that support him also have large industrial farms, meat processing facilities and construction companies. I am surprised they have not yet told him to back off on the rhetoric...unless this is ploy to frighten the undocumented workers to accept even lower wages and live in slave like conditions. That I can believe.
For the foreseeable future, just like after 9/11, I will be from Sicily or my other standby Paraguay in South America. I better brush up on my fake Sicilian and Spanish...Bona notti, Reñe'êkuaápa guaraníme? That second phase is from Guarani, a Paraguayan language. Perfect! This will be like a long running Monty Python segment, "how to confuse the Trump deporters in chief."
1
There has to be an approach between no consequences for breaking the law and an expensive and impossible to implement mass depirtation.
There must also be strict consequences for the employment of illegals.
There must also be strict consequences for the employment of illegals.
7
I thought I heard Trump say that the ONLY way someone could be in the country legally is if he/she properly obtained a visa to enter. Any other form of entry would be illegal, and the person could and would be deported. Hence, no amnesty, no path to citizenship, no forbearance of ANY KIND. We are coming to get you, maybe not now, but SOON (after we get rid of the worst of the worst).
5
He lives in a fantasy world crowded with millions of admirers. He has no real idea how much this will cost nor where the money is coming from.
He epitomizes all the awful characteristics we loathe.
He epitomizes all the awful characteristics we loathe.
10
The world inside the brain of Donald Trump must be a fascinating place. He thrives on impulse (pretty frightening for one who could have access to nuclear codes) and he reacts like a chameleon to the audience he is addressing (to wit: his rather diplomatic facade in Mexico followed only hours later by his xenophobic blathering in Arizona, where the crowd urged him on in fever pitch and he gladly obliged them with language offensive to even those Latinos who had been supporting him. His entire candidacy has been a wild ride, and the amusement park atmosphere will reach its height when he explodes on the debate stage. If I were an illegal immigrant, I would be deathly worried if this man wins the election. His oxymoronic posturing that he will deport people "humanely" is the essence of Donald Trump.
14
"If I were an illegal immigrant, I would be deathly worried if this man wins the election."
It is a major premise of the immigration debate that returning to the country were one grew up is a fate equivalent to death. Yet American exceptionalism is derided.
It is a major premise of the immigration debate that returning to the country were one grew up is a fate equivalent to death. Yet American exceptionalism is derided.
4
Obama has deported more people than any other President. People in this country illegally are already worried - as they should be. They broke the law. There is a process in place to immigrate here legally. It is admittedly bulky, inefficient, and expensive - we should address this. But those willing to go through the process are more appreciative of the opportunities offered by this great nation.
Check out Canada's points system for immigration or even look up penalties in Mexico for violating its immigration laws.
Check out Canada's points system for immigration or even look up penalties in Mexico for violating its immigration laws.
4
"Obama has deported more people"
He changed the method of counting. Anybody turned back at the border now is counted as a deportation.
He changed the method of counting. Anybody turned back at the border now is counted as a deportation.
5
What is infinitely more frightening than a rather improbable Trump Presidency is the 40 % voter block that wants to radically change our world order and drive this country back to the McCarthy era. It is their hatred and intolerance we need to fear and resist.
25
Hmm.
What I DON'T see in Herr Drumpf's vituperative comments is how he is going to go out and round up all the EMPLOYERS using illegal immigrants as labor.
Might that be because they are, generally, Anglo? I wonder . . . .
What I DON'T see in Herr Drumpf's vituperative comments is how he is going to go out and round up all the EMPLOYERS using illegal immigrants as labor.
Might that be because they are, generally, Anglo? I wonder . . . .
12
And the employers using illegal immigrants as labor would include HIMSELF!
5
...and include Trump himself?
5
We must not forget that Mr. Trump also said we would be humane in our deportation policies. Perhaps we should assume he was referring to the use of air conditioned buses instead of cattle cars?
10
As many legal immigrants have pointed out, they applied, paid their fees, and waited in line to be accepted into the US. There are many more potential U.S. citizens who are still waiting patiently while others disobey the law and take their chances. After all, they reason, amnesty happened before, so it will probably happen this time. No matter if they are "hard working" people who "just want a better life for their children." They are law breakers.
According to Investors Business daily, Mexico's legal immigration policies are designed to provide the country with the skill sets that the country needs. There's no talk of letting in those who'll "do the work that Mexicans won't do."
While we invite illegal immigration with jobs, service in the U.S. military, driver's licenses and discounted college tuition denied U.S. citizens from another state, Mexico slams the door.
In Mexico's constitution, Article 33 gives the president of Mexico the right to deport foreigners at will without the deportation hearing that 90% of our illegals fail to show up for. Foreigners are prohibited from participating in Mexican politics "in any way." Having a drivers license does not give one the right to vote. And to my knowledge, Mexico, like all other countries, have rescinded birthright citizenship. We are the last to allow it because of a strange interpretation of the 14th Amendment.
Why is Mexico critical of our policies when they have even more draconian ones in place.?
According to Investors Business daily, Mexico's legal immigration policies are designed to provide the country with the skill sets that the country needs. There's no talk of letting in those who'll "do the work that Mexicans won't do."
While we invite illegal immigration with jobs, service in the U.S. military, driver's licenses and discounted college tuition denied U.S. citizens from another state, Mexico slams the door.
In Mexico's constitution, Article 33 gives the president of Mexico the right to deport foreigners at will without the deportation hearing that 90% of our illegals fail to show up for. Foreigners are prohibited from participating in Mexican politics "in any way." Having a drivers license does not give one the right to vote. And to my knowledge, Mexico, like all other countries, have rescinded birthright citizenship. We are the last to allow it because of a strange interpretation of the 14th Amendment.
Why is Mexico critical of our policies when they have even more draconian ones in place.?
13
Be careful, Cal Gal, you are using true facts and the "green checked" trolls do not like honesty or reality. They have their own alternative reality where Hillary is a beacon of honesty and Slick Willie spends his days pondering what the meaning of "is" is.
4
Mr. Trump states that his new ICE "Deportation Officers" will have the authority to immediately determine one's citizenship, immigration, resident alien or authorized visa status and be able to single-handedly remove the individual in question from the US to whatever country Mr. Trump's "Deportation Officers" decide the accused is a legal resident of. No ifs, ands or buts.
Enter President Obama's citizenship and place of birth. Mr. Trump essentially turned a tabloid driven non-issue into a front page drama, only settled when a certified copy of his birth certificate was produced.
Remember, even after production of President Obama's birth certificate, Mr. Trump surmised that "it might well be a fake". Using the foregoing as a template, literally everyone residing in the US will be subject to questioning concerning their status anywhere and at anytime. Mr. Trump's "Deportation Officer" would be the judge, jury and executioner. According to Mr. Trump a valid passport, certified birth certificate or any other document of citizenship would be open to both interpretation and questions of validity. Once designated as "illegal" this individual would be deported to the country of the Deportation Officer's own choosing. If the country in question objected, any and all aid from the US would be immediately curtailed.
I, for one, would not want to live in a country such as this.
Enter President Obama's citizenship and place of birth. Mr. Trump essentially turned a tabloid driven non-issue into a front page drama, only settled when a certified copy of his birth certificate was produced.
Remember, even after production of President Obama's birth certificate, Mr. Trump surmised that "it might well be a fake". Using the foregoing as a template, literally everyone residing in the US will be subject to questioning concerning their status anywhere and at anytime. Mr. Trump's "Deportation Officer" would be the judge, jury and executioner. According to Mr. Trump a valid passport, certified birth certificate or any other document of citizenship would be open to both interpretation and questions of validity. Once designated as "illegal" this individual would be deported to the country of the Deportation Officer's own choosing. If the country in question objected, any and all aid from the US would be immediately curtailed.
I, for one, would not want to live in a country such as this.
21
Slavery was abolished by Lincoln despite the Old South's need of it for it's economy to function. In every society there is a need for a certain level of "servitude" - meaning a class of worker at the absolute lowest rung where wages are at a minimum and benefits are non-existent. Our manufacturing jobs are being replaced not just by overseas sourcing, but by automation. For certain industries automation is just not possible. Cleaning hotel rooms and wiping babies bottoms need that "human touch". Would you as an employer, pay a maid $75,000 to scrub toilets and change bed linens? Should a laborer in a landscaping crew be paid $95,000 plus health and pension benefits? In a perfect world, maybe. But this is the reality of the Wal-Mart economy. Squeezing the last penny out of costs to maximize profits. Like it or not we need a version of "legislative slavery" to keep our economy and expected lifestyles ongoing. We need to respect the underclass who toil for us so that we might live the way we do. I'm not sure what the answer is, but the first step it to act with kindness and humility.
5
This relentless attention given to Trump has put him where he is. It's Trump Trump Trump every minute of every day. You, the media, have created him. If it had intentionally ignored him he would be as done and gone as Sanders. If you don't want him to win you have to occasionally remind folks about Clinton.
10
No, we can never deport all the illegal immigrants in this country; that is obvious. Does that mean we shouldn't even try? NO! We cannot jail all the rapists and murderers in this country, but that does no mean we should just give up and declare an amnesty for them either.
Yes, under some of these proposals some legal immigrants or even citizens may be arrested and accused of being illegal immigrants. Some innocent people are arrested and accused of being rapists and murderers, but we believe that the majority will be acquitted by the courts. The same is true of Mr. Trump's 'deportation squads', legal proceedings will bring out the facts in most cases. Will there be miscarriages of justice? Of course, no system is perfect,
True justice occurs when every violator of law is punished according to the law, and no innocent man is punished for anything. That, like Boyle's perfect gas, will not occur in nature. Allowing 11 million people to evade justice, however, if too far from that for my tastes.
Yes, under some of these proposals some legal immigrants or even citizens may be arrested and accused of being illegal immigrants. Some innocent people are arrested and accused of being rapists and murderers, but we believe that the majority will be acquitted by the courts. The same is true of Mr. Trump's 'deportation squads', legal proceedings will bring out the facts in most cases. Will there be miscarriages of justice? Of course, no system is perfect,
True justice occurs when every violator of law is punished according to the law, and no innocent man is punished for anything. That, like Boyle's perfect gas, will not occur in nature. Allowing 11 million people to evade justice, however, if too far from that for my tastes.
12
Donald, if it would satisfy your own obsession with undocumented aliens, I will happily construct a wall around you and pay for it myself. I promise you'll be completely safe.
17
Let's not pretend this is a black and white, good vs evil issue. Every country has a right and need to control its border The USA has immigration laws and thousands of Mexicans have waited patiently for their number to come up. What message do we send them: "don't be a fool and follow the law, sneak across the border and you'll be OK"?
On the other hand millions of Mexicans have been lured across the border by American businesses who want cheap labor and turn a blind eye to their employee's immigration status. Then we have families of illegal immigrants with American citizen minor children - those kids have a right to live in the USA in the care of their parents.
Most illegal immigration is economic, when the jobs dry up they return home. Strict enforcement against employers coupled with a free ticket home would help reduce the numbers. Regularizing the status of the parents of minor American born children would be humane.
At the end of the day reducing the number of people in this country illegally must happen. You can excoriate Trump all you want but both Clinton and Obama have attempted to achieve this goal also (as well as building a wall and militarizing the border). The campaign prevents a sensible discussion of this problem.
On the other hand millions of Mexicans have been lured across the border by American businesses who want cheap labor and turn a blind eye to their employee's immigration status. Then we have families of illegal immigrants with American citizen minor children - those kids have a right to live in the USA in the care of their parents.
Most illegal immigration is economic, when the jobs dry up they return home. Strict enforcement against employers coupled with a free ticket home would help reduce the numbers. Regularizing the status of the parents of minor American born children would be humane.
At the end of the day reducing the number of people in this country illegally must happen. You can excoriate Trump all you want but both Clinton and Obama have attempted to achieve this goal also (as well as building a wall and militarizing the border). The campaign prevents a sensible discussion of this problem.
7
Sensible? Did you not hear the Phoenix speech?
1
I must have missed something huge. Just when did Obama and/or Hillary do anything to secure our border? I have seen signs posted on our side of the border warning Americans to stay away from it because it is dangerous. That much is true; it is dangerous because it has been porous for the last eight years.
Then there is the Obama speak on deportations. Let's try it in "club speak" that all New Yorkers can understand. You go to the club, but the big guy at the velvet rope does not let you in. That is not the same as being inside the club and then being ejected/deported. The current double talk attempts to equate 'turn arounds' at the border with deportations. It is fundamentally dishonest to count those as deportations, but typical of this administration.
Then there is the Obama speak on deportations. Let's try it in "club speak" that all New Yorkers can understand. You go to the club, but the big guy at the velvet rope does not let you in. That is not the same as being inside the club and then being ejected/deported. The current double talk attempts to equate 'turn arounds' at the border with deportations. It is fundamentally dishonest to count those as deportations, but typical of this administration.
3
@Phil Z
Clinton has said in the past that she backs a more militarized border—including something that sounds a bit like a wall. “Look, I voted numerous times when I was a senator to spend money to build a barrier to try to prevent illegal immigrants from coming in,” she said at a campaign stop last November “And I do think you have to control your borders.”
Clinton has said in the past that she backs a more militarized border—including something that sounds a bit like a wall. “Look, I voted numerous times when I was a senator to spend money to build a barrier to try to prevent illegal immigrants from coming in,” she said at a campaign stop last November “And I do think you have to control your borders.”
3
All this genuinely alarming bluster ignores, for one thing, the utter impracticality in terms of money. The cost of such a gigantic and unwieldy operation would hugely balloon the federal budget (especially if it actually attempted to include "The Wall", which Mexico certainly will NOT pay for). For another thing, how does a President Trump expect to gain the cooperation in this enterprise of all the wealthy businessmen (including at present, himself) who use this labor to keep their cost down. Will they all eagerly now shoulder the hugely increased costs of using unionized workers? I very much doubt it. The myth of millions of criminal "aliens" roaming our streets with the blessing of the current administration, and wreaking havoc and terror on us all goes against the real day to day experiences of our actual lives.
10
The comments about the high costs of a high wall are on point. Build a 40 foot wall and someone will arrive with a 41 foot ladder and you can go to Google Images to see folks scaling very tall barriers by a variety of means.
There exists a "smart wall" that uses new technology to instantly detect any attempt to breach the wall or tunnel beneath it. It was presented to Homeland Security some years back, but was rejected out of hand as it was not consistent with the administration's 'open borders' policies.
The Trump campaign is aware of this technology and I would hope that they deploy this low cost, but very effective technology shortly after the election.
There exists a "smart wall" that uses new technology to instantly detect any attempt to breach the wall or tunnel beneath it. It was presented to Homeland Security some years back, but was rejected out of hand as it was not consistent with the administration's 'open borders' policies.
The Trump campaign is aware of this technology and I would hope that they deploy this low cost, but very effective technology shortly after the election.
2
Trump doesn't get the Republican promise to limit government. Huge cost to hiring all those people. Yuger costs to building a wall 30 feet tall and 12 feet deep, plus the cost of patrolling and maintaining it.
Of course this is all Trumpean fantasy. None of it would ever be done. And many don't really believe any of it. Least of all Trump who gladly changes policy to suit his audience.
Flip-flops don't deter the true believers. They believe they know Trump's intentions and that's good enough for them. A lot of magical thinking goes into assuming he could deliver on any of his promises.
Of course this is all Trumpean fantasy. None of it would ever be done. And many don't really believe any of it. Least of all Trump who gladly changes policy to suit his audience.
Flip-flops don't deter the true believers. They believe they know Trump's intentions and that's good enough for them. A lot of magical thinking goes into assuming he could deliver on any of his promises.
7
Yes, Trump's vision is brutal and scary, but it's also unnecessary. Net migration has been negative for the last 5 years for which there are statistics. The editorial states that Trump embellished his speech with stats. How about fact check those stats? They are bogus. Please challenge the underlying assumptions.
16
Donald Trump wants to build a spectacular wall on our Mexico border.
If he is elected, most likely one of his related companies ( like Halliburton) will take over the job.
I am wondering does he going to put TRUMP letters like he is always putting on his buildings with Golden glitter.
This a lunatic person fantasy nothing else, This wall will cost USA not 12 Billion USD, it is going to cost almost more than 70 billion excluding maintenance , meanwhile illegal immigration most likely to figure out to reach America other ways. Sea-air , under ground etc.
We will have giant wall and Trump letter on it.
Does this seem normal. No civilized society has walls, Only Israel their reason is not keeping immigrant out, literally keeping war our .
If he is elected, most likely one of his related companies ( like Halliburton) will take over the job.
I am wondering does he going to put TRUMP letters like he is always putting on his buildings with Golden glitter.
This a lunatic person fantasy nothing else, This wall will cost USA not 12 Billion USD, it is going to cost almost more than 70 billion excluding maintenance , meanwhile illegal immigration most likely to figure out to reach America other ways. Sea-air , under ground etc.
We will have giant wall and Trump letter on it.
Does this seem normal. No civilized society has walls, Only Israel their reason is not keeping immigrant out, literally keeping war our .
4
Border walls are as old as history itself. Remember the "Great Wall of China" the only human artifact visible to the naked eye from the space shuttle? Is a country without discernible, defendable borders really a country? I think not and the countries within the EU are rapidly restoring their border after their disastrous experience with the Schengen Agreement and Angela Merkel's experiment in social engineering.
2
But the wall isn't going to cost US taxpayers anything. Remember, even though they don't realize it - *Mexico* is paying for the wall. And Mr. Trump will be hiring undocumented Polish laborers to build it.
1
A couple of thoughts about issues overlooked by both Mr. Trump and many who both support and despise Mr. Trump. 40% of the undocumented aliens living in the US do not speak Spanish: they come from eastern Europe, Africa, Asia either smuggled on initially on temporary types of visas and stay. A wall, no matter how high, will not stop that inflow. The murders who perpetrated the 9/11 attacks were here legally on student visas and I have Saudi and Egyptian graduate students down the hall from me right now.
There is no mention of employers in all of his rhetoric. Of course Mr. Trump is well aware that one of his contractors imported 115 undocumented Polish construction workers for his mid-town Manhattan project and then underpaid them. Should not any employer who knowingly hires undocumented workers face criminal charges and penalties? Nope, they are all GOP members and donors so Mr. Trump does not go there.
Finally, I really want the Democrats to leave the 2nd Amendment alone because I need it so that I may protect myself from the GOP who despise the 4th and 5th Amendments.
There is no mention of employers in all of his rhetoric. Of course Mr. Trump is well aware that one of his contractors imported 115 undocumented Polish construction workers for his mid-town Manhattan project and then underpaid them. Should not any employer who knowingly hires undocumented workers face criminal charges and penalties? Nope, they are all GOP members and donors so Mr. Trump does not go there.
Finally, I really want the Democrats to leave the 2nd Amendment alone because I need it so that I may protect myself from the GOP who despise the 4th and 5th Amendments.
5
Democratic position on guns is rational and does not include banning guns, only imposing and enforcing reasonable restrictions on their acquisition.
And if you think a shooting war is going to benefit anyone, think again. They're vastly better armed, trained, and marinated in hate.
And if you think a shooting war is going to benefit anyone, think again. They're vastly better armed, trained, and marinated in hate.
7
Susan, despite you being anointed with the "green check" you are not being honest about the Democratic stance on guns and the 2nd Amendment. Hillary has publicly stated that she is in favor of an
"Australian style" gun confiscation program. Diane Feinstein was on Sixty Minutes calling for total confiscation of all firearms; check it.
Obama chose a craftier approach. He was smart enough to realize that there was no chance of rounding up the 300 million firearms in civilian hands. So, he went after the ammunition supply, first with an order that all "once fired" military brass be shredded and sold to China. Then senator Max Bacchus of Montana put a halt to that ploy in a matter of hours, so then Obama had executive agencies under his control, e.g. Homeland Security start buying up billions of rounds of common types and did succeed for a brief while in creating some shortages.
The Democrats are hostile to guns and the 2nd Amendment. That is the real truth of the matter.
"Australian style" gun confiscation program. Diane Feinstein was on Sixty Minutes calling for total confiscation of all firearms; check it.
Obama chose a craftier approach. He was smart enough to realize that there was no chance of rounding up the 300 million firearms in civilian hands. So, he went after the ammunition supply, first with an order that all "once fired" military brass be shredded and sold to China. Then senator Max Bacchus of Montana put a halt to that ploy in a matter of hours, so then Obama had executive agencies under his control, e.g. Homeland Security start buying up billions of rounds of common types and did succeed for a brief while in creating some shortages.
The Democrats are hostile to guns and the 2nd Amendment. That is the real truth of the matter.
3
It is true that only 62% of illegals are Mexican. But about 75% come from Spanish speaking countries.
5
At this point, for me, it does not matter what he says. I have a physical/emotional response of repulsion when I listen to him talk, no matter if he is "pivoting", "softening" or being abrasive and divisive. It doesn't matter whether he changes his mind, whether he believes this or that. It doesn't matter that he goes to an African American Church or to Mexico. What matters is his character. His voice, whether abrasive or scripted, sounds hollow. In my opinion, we are looking at an undeveloped man - whose ego desires the adulation of becomingi president of the United States to appease his own insatiable desirei to win and still the voices of, what I can only imagine might be, a deep sense of shame - which I suspect would overwhelm him if he had to experience it. Not a psychologist, so I am on thin ice here, but I do trust my sense of repulsion and also a sense of confusion. A developed "he" is not there.
15
If Trump is elected, he is going to get a big dose of reality thrown at him at the onset. Take his immigration "plan". He will find that saying I'll swiftly deport everyone we catch is harder to do than say. He'll be told about having to first hire and train all these new people (requires new bureaucracy, facilities, etc.), Then coordination with existing authorities must be "negotiated". Of course Union contracts need to be renegotiated. Then we really need to wait for new prisons to be built and more guards hired and trained and since it's been privatized new government workers to audit and oversee operations. Oh the list is huge. Trump will so tire of it and lose interest that the process will just meander along until it turns into a disaster.
35
Trump and most of the republican party do not get what is going on with the illegal immigrants. These people risk their lives getting to the US. We need to put in place laws that are humane that recognize the people in the US who contribute to our society by working hard and obeying our laws. We can offer them working permits and a path to legal status if they pay a fine and learn English. We need the people that contribute to our economy. We also need to loosen the waiting period for Hispanics to enter as legal immigrants.
If we send them back to get in line to come back it is a very long time before they can emigrate. They also may have legal family members who need them.
If we send them back to get in line to come back it is a very long time before they can emigrate. They also may have legal family members who need them.
2
If it weren't for "illegal" labor, Trump's shoddy, tacky buildings would have never been possible. He is just such a shameless hypocrite, baldly pandering to the most regressive, xenophobic, vicious elements of our national mood.
Please, New York Times, PLEASE stop giving this menace of a man an equal platform with the only suitable candidate for the President. He is a total fraud, through and through.
Please, New York Times, PLEASE stop giving this menace of a man an equal platform with the only suitable candidate for the President. He is a total fraud, through and through.
22
People come to the US in search of a better life for themselves and their families. If companies and private individuals can get away with hiring illegal immigrants without real threat of serious punishment, there will be a continued demand for illegal workers.
If we want to stop the flow of illegals into our country, we need to stop supplying jobs. And this can be slowed down drastically by making the penalties for hiring illegals very severe.
The fact is our country WANTS illegal immigrants to do the farming work and menial labor at the low wages they re willing to work for. We LIKE having illegals contribute billions a year to Social Security without collecting it.
When I hear Donald Trump say that any company that knowingly hires illegals will be shut down and fined, I will believe he us serious about wanting to stop illegal immigration. But clearly this is not his plan, because he himself is one of those companies that employs illegal immigrants.
If we want to stop the flow of illegals into our country, we need to stop supplying jobs. And this can be slowed down drastically by making the penalties for hiring illegals very severe.
The fact is our country WANTS illegal immigrants to do the farming work and menial labor at the low wages they re willing to work for. We LIKE having illegals contribute billions a year to Social Security without collecting it.
When I hear Donald Trump say that any company that knowingly hires illegals will be shut down and fined, I will believe he us serious about wanting to stop illegal immigration. But clearly this is not his plan, because he himself is one of those companies that employs illegal immigrants.
15
Tough talk for a tough problem. You can read the worse in to any significant policy shift but the reality is that the immigration system is already corrupted by politics. No doubt Trump's opponents will attempt to make something of his direct to the heart of the problem style and cast it as inhumane. I did not hear it that way. The millions of unauthorized immigrates are like a pyramid with the biggest problems at the top. That's where immediate change is needed- immigrants that come here now and choose to test our resolve will meet a wall. Immigrants that weaken our society should be quickly removed. Immigrants that share our values and demonstrate a willingness to stay and live with immigration policy that is uniform to all will find a home. This message goes far beyond Trump's style.
7
Not surprising that a man who supports the well-armed militia segment of the Second Amendment would champion "policies" that directly benefit his campaign contributors, ICE union members and the private prison industry.
He struts about promoting his idea to make America an all-white gated community yet skips the part about the homeowners' association fees, commonly called taxes. Who would pay for his unconstitutional nonsense?
All of this - absolutely all of this - is so he and the GOP can ignore this country's real issues about which they know nothing. The corrupt and unregulated banking and finance industry, zero consumer protections, workers who only have a union if they work for the government or a professional sports team making millions, the inequality in all women's issues, young and privileged white criminals who get away with rape, lack of child care for working families, environmental crises, corporate employee-dumping prior to retirement vesting, our crumbling infrastructure, racist hiring and policing policies, elderly folks living alone and starving in the richest country in the world, falling educational standards (and scores), and on and on and on.
By the way, has anyone noticed how the word "Muslim" has disappeared from his vocabulary, such that it is? Perhaps his GOP Jewish contributors reminded him about the globally and historically unpopular "policy" of deporting folks for their religious convictions?
He struts about promoting his idea to make America an all-white gated community yet skips the part about the homeowners' association fees, commonly called taxes. Who would pay for his unconstitutional nonsense?
All of this - absolutely all of this - is so he and the GOP can ignore this country's real issues about which they know nothing. The corrupt and unregulated banking and finance industry, zero consumer protections, workers who only have a union if they work for the government or a professional sports team making millions, the inequality in all women's issues, young and privileged white criminals who get away with rape, lack of child care for working families, environmental crises, corporate employee-dumping prior to retirement vesting, our crumbling infrastructure, racist hiring and policing policies, elderly folks living alone and starving in the richest country in the world, falling educational standards (and scores), and on and on and on.
By the way, has anyone noticed how the word "Muslim" has disappeared from his vocabulary, such that it is? Perhaps his GOP Jewish contributors reminded him about the globally and historically unpopular "policy" of deporting folks for their religious convictions?
7
Zero consumer protections?
Haven't I told you a million times not to exaggerate?
Haven't I told you a million times not to exaggerate?
3
Very well put. This GOP's agenda that Trump is spouting.
2
I have grandkids that are Americans but also of Hispanic decent.... I pray to god a deportation official doesn't make a mistake as it would tend to make me rethink my law abiding status
6
The NY Editorial Board writes, “This isn’t the full list, but it’s enough to show how drastically Mr. Trump wants to remake the country.”
Well Mr. Trump often says, “We either have a country or we don’t.”
It’s high time that prominent people, including Republicans, from all walks of life unequivocally answered Trump along these lines, “We don’t! We do not want a country that takes us back to anti-immigrant bashing, racism, misogyny, and all sorts of hatred that you represent! We don’t want that kind of country, Mr. Trump!”
Well Mr. Trump often says, “We either have a country or we don’t.”
It’s high time that prominent people, including Republicans, from all walks of life unequivocally answered Trump along these lines, “We don’t! We do not want a country that takes us back to anti-immigrant bashing, racism, misogyny, and all sorts of hatred that you represent! We don’t want that kind of country, Mr. Trump!”
8
Immigrants aren't being bashed. Illegal immigrants need to be dealt with as does anyone else who breaks the law. Nothing racist about making criminals accountable for the choices they have made.
5
Liar liar pants on fire. Time to stop parsing Hillary's minute by minute history and supporting the "no smoke without fire" attack language. Clean up Congress and states and municipalities from these exploiters and then we can hold her to a higher standard. With our support, we can and must recreate our society so it works for all of us. Otherwise, we're toast. Climate change is real, here, and accelerating, thanks to four decades of letting prevaricators run the ship of state.
3
If one listens carefully to his speech, the saddest part of Mr. Trump's deportation proposal is not that he wants to deport illegal aliens because they are here illegally. It is because in his distorted views, he sees all of them as dangerous criminals, intent on harming all of us. Remove them, he says, and all your troubles will go away! Never mind that, while you are busy looking for and chasing them, I am going to make sure that my fellow billionaires continue to have their cake and eat it too!
He is sad version of the peddler selling snake oil.
He is sad version of the peddler selling snake oil.
50
If the Donald's two speeches, one in Mexico City and one in Phoenix, seem confusing and inconsistent, remember that he now has two main advisers: on the one hand the two faced, slippery, obfuscating, side step the question and give your canned speech, Kellyanne Conway, and on the other hand the direct, angry racist, antisemitic, call Ron Crystal a renegade Jew, Stephen Bannon.
The Donald changes not only his tone but also his "policy" and even the facts depending on to whom he last spoke. The ability to hear conflicting advice and make solid, consistent decisions, the key skill that a president needs, is just what the Donald lacks. It would help if he had moral and political principles to fall back on, but he does not. The truth will set you free, free among other things of having to alter facts from one speech to another.
The Donald changes not only his tone but also his "policy" and even the facts depending on to whom he last spoke. The ability to hear conflicting advice and make solid, consistent decisions, the key skill that a president needs, is just what the Donald lacks. It would help if he had moral and political principles to fall back on, but he does not. The truth will set you free, free among other things of having to alter facts from one speech to another.
5
Seriously. Both we, and the New York Times need to get beyond talking about Donald Trump.....Seriously.
There are probably several NYT readers who have noticed that there never fails to be one, or several articles on the Opinion Pages about Donald Trump EVERYDAY.
Why??? We all know that he'e mercurial, and outrageous, and unrealistic and a bigot.
Some of us even know that he is totally unfit to be President of the United States.
So why not try to focus on some of the other things going on around the world?
Let Breitbart, FOX, and the Twitter-sphere worry about Trump for a change.
All of his news is not always "fit to print"....everyday.
There are probably several NYT readers who have noticed that there never fails to be one, or several articles on the Opinion Pages about Donald Trump EVERYDAY.
Why??? We all know that he'e mercurial, and outrageous, and unrealistic and a bigot.
Some of us even know that he is totally unfit to be President of the United States.
So why not try to focus on some of the other things going on around the world?
Let Breitbart, FOX, and the Twitter-sphere worry about Trump for a change.
All of his news is not always "fit to print"....everyday.
13
The problem is that FOX, Breitbart, etc. are all supportive of this obnoxious imbecile. Unhappily, we absolutely need The Times and other responsible sources of information to explain to those who are still on the fence why it is that this irrational demagogue needs to be firmly rejected.
5
Actualt DT entered the zone of Fascism.
1
Illegal immigrants comes here illegally. If employed, they are hired illegally. Revenues are not paid, illegally.
Blacks that can speak english, write some english, have been educated at least some, find themselves in custody when involved in illegal behavior. Not working at a job that could be paying them more that the illegal is paid.
While some that hire illegals do so out of compassion, there is an attractive cost motive for others. If all that hired illegals knowingly, or assuming, or don't ask don't tell, were revealed, would it be obvious why decriminalizing the associated behavior is so popular among those whom espouse it? Would it question why we incarcerate our own for illegal behavior, while exploitatively pardoning others and ourselves?
Blacks that can speak english, write some english, have been educated at least some, find themselves in custody when involved in illegal behavior. Not working at a job that could be paying them more that the illegal is paid.
While some that hire illegals do so out of compassion, there is an attractive cost motive for others. If all that hired illegals knowingly, or assuming, or don't ask don't tell, were revealed, would it be obvious why decriminalizing the associated behavior is so popular among those whom espouse it? Would it question why we incarcerate our own for illegal behavior, while exploitatively pardoning others and ourselves?
6
Those who hire illegal immigrants, whether out of "compassion' or "cost motive" are also intentionally breaking the law. If there were no hiring, there would be little illegal immigration.
And I agree with many commenters that deporting millions is infeasible and is a program open to multiple abuses, as the article states. Obama's plan is slower, but sustainable. If prosecuting Americans who break immigration laws by hiring illegals, the program would offer better results. But then, who would harvest our veggies?
And I agree with many commenters that deporting millions is infeasible and is a program open to multiple abuses, as the article states. Obama's plan is slower, but sustainable. If prosecuting Americans who break immigration laws by hiring illegals, the program would offer better results. But then, who would harvest our veggies?
1
Donald Trump, Deporter in Waiting! Honestly I love that headline. You just can not invade a country and set up shop without consequences. Most people scratch their head about this. You get here illegally and your reward is to be able to stay. What nonsense is this??
8
Do you want to contribute the necessary tax revenues to deport all eleven million as well as to build the wall that Mexico won't pay for? Never mind the fact that most of those 11 million are actually taxpayers themselves.
4
The US border is a sieve that needs its holes plugged. This has become more apparent as people who will never accept our way of life are pouring in in ever-increasing numbers, and are trying to change our mores to suit their preferred way of life. We should have control over who enters and know when visitors leave. But it would be both crazy and impossible to try to remove decent people who have been settled in the US for years, with American-born children, stable jobs, homes, and established relationships.
I know a family in this predicament. They came to the US from Mexico almost twenty years ago, what they thought was a temporary solution to unemployment. Their plan changed after a few years, the establishment of their own small business, and a couple of sons. These people have been working with an immigration attorney for years, and are still in limbo. And Trump wants to throw them out.
I know a family in this predicament. They came to the US from Mexico almost twenty years ago, what they thought was a temporary solution to unemployment. Their plan changed after a few years, the establishment of their own small business, and a couple of sons. These people have been working with an immigration attorney for years, and are still in limbo. And Trump wants to throw them out.
7
The only thing I did not hear was a bounty on immigrants. For the second amendment people.
7
If anyone thinks that deporting 11 million people will be a magic cure to whatever problems people have imagined, I have a bridge to sell you.
14
Trump would be hilarious if he weren't so basically unpleasant. He's employed more illegals than most people, underpaid construction workers and exploited fashion models, and he's married to a woman who worked illegally when she first came to the U.S. In true Trump form, he calls Hillary a bigot, while having discriminated against blacks seeking housing, he rants and raves about the 11 million he intends to deport. Where will YOU get your workers, Mr. Trump - or are we supposed to know you're just kidding about all this?
13
Simple. He has never mentioned cutting the amount of H1B and H2B visas. In fact, his Florida golf courses just applied for 50 more because they claimed they couldn't get qualified wait staff for their restaurants or workers to mow the golf courses!
2
Borders are sooooo 20th century. The Rich, the Cartels and the Despotic freely cross borders, along with their money, laundered in 'respectable' banks right here in the US. Corporations freely cross borders, 'inverting' and moving millions of jobs that also freely cross borders. The only things that can't freely cross borders to better their lives and their fortunes are Ordinary Working People and their families.
The irony is that the Rich, the Cartels, the Despotic, the Banks, and the Corporations rely on Ordinary People to staff the police and the agencies that guard the borders, and keep out, round up and persecute the planet's Ordinary People. Comes the revolution . . .
The irony is that the Rich, the Cartels, the Despotic, the Banks, and the Corporations rely on Ordinary People to staff the police and the agencies that guard the borders, and keep out, round up and persecute the planet's Ordinary People. Comes the revolution . . .
4
how does the nominee propose to find these millions of people?
5
He can find some of them quite easily: they're working for him at Mar-a-Lago.
7
Is it too late to add a national referendum to the November ballot? If not, then it should read something like this, "Should Donald Trump fail to receive one-hundred percent (100.00%) of the popular vote, then he will be immediately banished and deported to the Elba Memorial prison, located in the retired blast furnace of Monterrey, Mexico's oldest integrated steel mill. Twice the number of required, armed Mexican guards will be provided by el gobierno de Estados Unidos Mexicanos, to be compensated by the government of the United States of America, to prevent a Napoleonic escape."
Hasta la vista, baby. Losers have no business leading the United States of America.
Hasta la vista, baby. Losers have no business leading the United States of America.
4
We can deride Trump for the nationalistic posturing towards an obviously angry (declining) segment of population, and worry about the direct costs of offered policies, but has there been a serious discussion of the far more costly indirect effects of Trump's xenophobic jingoism? Remember US policies in the 1950s with Iran and Central America? We're still dealing with the long-term political and economic ramifications that we bear in the Middle-East and Central America. Remember our over-reaction with regards to the Soviet Union that led to disastrous interventions in the world and ridiculous attacks on domestic civil liberties and minorities? Trump's proposed immigration policies are not only a financial boondoggle, but while serving the narrow interests of his rabid right-wing nationalistic white base, will only lead to an international reaction that will crystallize opposition to our country that will economically and politically damage us for decades to come. Trump's nationalism will cement anti-American alliances - amongst nations, organizations, and independent militant actors - that will cost us trillions, not to mention the cost to our liberties in order to defend against up-coming causal threats, and to our true humanistic American souls. We do not need - nor can we afford - such a Waterloo event. (Unless this immigration issue is merely raw meat to a ravenous angry pack of dogs who'll be disposed of after the election.)
3
The world in the next century if not decades is on the verge of a complete shift in population thanks to climate change. Nationalism? Get over it. Human rights should come before anything. And that means any human.
5
He must be stopped. He is a menace to our society. Can we include him in the deportation scheme and send him back to Germany, where his parents came from? 1930s germany in a time machine. He'd fit right in
7
Great idea!! i am for that
1
Donald Trump repeatedly blames illegal immigrants for violent crimes.
Yes I believe particularly who is with Drug cartel are doing very violent criminal activity.
but linking this under the subtext of immigrants to Hispanic and black society brings my mind this question.
Mass shooting which Americas hallmark cultural character in the world attempted almost 100% by whom? American citizens.
below a remarkable ones.
1999 Columbine school massacre perpetrated by American citizens Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold.
2007 Virginia tech massacre perpetrated by Seung-Hui Cho, a South Korean citizen with U.S. permanent resident status.
2012 Aurora theatre massacre perpetrated by American citizen James Eagan Holmes
2012 Sandy Hook elementary school massacre perpetrated by American citizen Adam Peter Lanza
2016 Orlando pulse massacre perpetrated by American citizen Omar Mateen
Since when these crimes are petty crimes, or compared to other crimes can be neglected.
These massacre's are in their respect one of the most despicable acts of humanity and DT is always talking about Latinos are criminals.
This si a clear sign Dt is yearning exactly the same type of Nazi style governing, he is a business man, , he may also legalize cheap or slave labor for business.
Yes I believe particularly who is with Drug cartel are doing very violent criminal activity.
but linking this under the subtext of immigrants to Hispanic and black society brings my mind this question.
Mass shooting which Americas hallmark cultural character in the world attempted almost 100% by whom? American citizens.
below a remarkable ones.
1999 Columbine school massacre perpetrated by American citizens Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold.
2007 Virginia tech massacre perpetrated by Seung-Hui Cho, a South Korean citizen with U.S. permanent resident status.
2012 Aurora theatre massacre perpetrated by American citizen James Eagan Holmes
2012 Sandy Hook elementary school massacre perpetrated by American citizen Adam Peter Lanza
2016 Orlando pulse massacre perpetrated by American citizen Omar Mateen
Since when these crimes are petty crimes, or compared to other crimes can be neglected.
These massacre's are in their respect one of the most despicable acts of humanity and DT is always talking about Latinos are criminals.
This si a clear sign Dt is yearning exactly the same type of Nazi style governing, he is a business man, , he may also legalize cheap or slave labor for business.
4
An earlier comment noted that "the contrast in appearance between the Wednesday afternoon press conference with the Mexican President and the Wednesday evening speech in Phoenix could not have been starker ... Which one are we to believe?"
The lesson here is that we can believe NOTHING that Trump says. It seems to me only two alternatives are available with regard to Mr. Trump: either he is a delusional megalomaniac whose only priority is Trump; or he is trying deliberately to lose the election by a historic margin (no small feat considering the fates of McGovern and Mondale), to what end I'm not sure except that it's bound to involve publicity for... Trump.
The lesson here is that we can believe NOTHING that Trump says. It seems to me only two alternatives are available with regard to Mr. Trump: either he is a delusional megalomaniac whose only priority is Trump; or he is trying deliberately to lose the election by a historic margin (no small feat considering the fates of McGovern and Mondale), to what end I'm not sure except that it's bound to involve publicity for... Trump.
9
Law breaking is law breaking, no matter how hard Democrats, liberals and The Times attempt to minimize or actually forgive the illegal aliens who break the law. You cannot pick and choose which illegal aliens to deport without compromising the law. Forgiveness is fine, as is lawful re-entry, but paying the penalty of deportation is unavoidable if we want to maintain a society of laws.
14
So why aren't you clamoring for all of the wealthy Republican business people who employ these immigrants to be penalized?
3
Decent law abiding Americans agree with your statement. The failure to pursue enforcement of our laws will only lead to chaos and anarchy. Unfortunately the political left are leading us in that direction.
7
Of course you can pick and choose. Unless you have unlimited resources, you have to pick and choose. Obama has deported more illegal immigrants than any president. But Trump talks like he will send thugs into the house of the hardworking nanny who lives with her three citizen children and what? Tear the family apart? Leave minor children with no mother? Deport U S citizens? Set aside the morality of that action, how do we pay for that?
1
Yes, I am totally disgusted. This man is attempting to take our tolerant and humanitarian country and turn it into police state. That so many buy his con is also disgusting....beyond disgusting.
Trump's focus on immigration is as genuine as his Obama "birther" rants. It's all for attention and boy is he good at it......absolutely disgusting.
Trump's focus on immigration is as genuine as his Obama "birther" rants. It's all for attention and boy is he good at it......absolutely disgusting.
12
No need to fear. Guliani has confirmed Trump has backed off of making Mexico pay for the Trump Wall. Trump changes with the weather. To paraphrase Harry Truman in referring to Richard Nixon, a much more honorable man than Donald John Barron Trump, "Trump goes around the country talking out of both sides of his mouth at the same times, and lying out of both sides."
5
It's really very simple. Who gets to make our immigration laws? The American public or any given foreign national? How can you possibly tell us it is the later? Either we are a country of borders and laws or we are not.
13
He is not being entirely unreasonable. I am not a Trump fan, but would want the Times to be more balanced and objective in its approach.
11
not entirely unreasonable, just insane.
4
When I think about Trump's blather being broadcast around the globe, I am embarrassed and horrified. What must the rest of the world be thinking of us? Have we lost our minds? How can so many Americans cheer this obvious dope as he rants and raves about "criminal aliens", kowtowing to an all-white audience with talk of punishment, retribution, deportation and imprisonment.
I am fully aware that every vile word Trump spews from his blowhole is noxious nonsense. I get it, and most Americans share the same opinion. They picture this odious small-fingered vulgarian representing us for the next four years, and they can't fathom how low some of us have sunk.
But that's the rub. It's just some of us, a lot, but not a majority that is going to win the election. The measure of us all is the Trump Test. Where you stand on this one barometer of what kind of person you are rests with what you think of Trump. If the thought of a Trump presidency sends thrills up your spine instead of shivers down your back then something is definitely wrong with your idea of what America is about. To love a man so filled with vicious anger and divisiveness tells us more about you than the candidate whom you adore. What went so terribly wrong with your life?
DD
Manhattan
I am fully aware that every vile word Trump spews from his blowhole is noxious nonsense. I get it, and most Americans share the same opinion. They picture this odious small-fingered vulgarian representing us for the next four years, and they can't fathom how low some of us have sunk.
But that's the rub. It's just some of us, a lot, but not a majority that is going to win the election. The measure of us all is the Trump Test. Where you stand on this one barometer of what kind of person you are rests with what you think of Trump. If the thought of a Trump presidency sends thrills up your spine instead of shivers down your back then something is definitely wrong with your idea of what America is about. To love a man so filled with vicious anger and divisiveness tells us more about you than the candidate whom you adore. What went so terribly wrong with your life?
DD
Manhattan
11
It is interesting to compare the editorials on the execrable Donald Trump and Cuban immigration this week. The editorial calling for an end to special immigration slots for Cubans noted that "this anachronistic policy ... also has the the effect of easing pressure on Cuba's authoritarian government to make economic and political reforms."
Change "Cuba's authoritarian government" to "Mexico's corrupt oligarchy." And then consider that the World Bank has just released figures showing that almost 25% of Mexico's GDP comes from remittances from Mexicans working in the U.S. Meanwhile Mexico's oligarchy hogs the profits from oil, etc., with no substantial internal pressure for reform.
The many anachronistic elements of U.S. immigration law since 1965 include failing to account fully for the impact of very high levels of immigration on both supply and demand in our own labor market and negative impacts on progress in feeder countries.
Change "Cuba's authoritarian government" to "Mexico's corrupt oligarchy." And then consider that the World Bank has just released figures showing that almost 25% of Mexico's GDP comes from remittances from Mexicans working in the U.S. Meanwhile Mexico's oligarchy hogs the profits from oil, etc., with no substantial internal pressure for reform.
The many anachronistic elements of U.S. immigration law since 1965 include failing to account fully for the impact of very high levels of immigration on both supply and demand in our own labor market and negative impacts on progress in feeder countries.
7
This fearless windbag, when he was twenty something, was terrified of being drafted and sent to Vietnam. Many of his supporters are now equally terrified, but now its not of being drafted, it's encountering immigrants, and the world as it is. His solution is more guns, more prisons, more walls, and more dumb Americans.
Hope we don't get the opportunity to see how Trump's fortress America works out.
Hope we don't get the opportunity to see how Trump's fortress America works out.
8
Again the NYTimes overgeneralizes and fails to get to the facts and underlying bigotry and hatred of Trump and his followers. Such false equivilancy and simplification of a serious, destructive force puts our country at risk of being governed by this hatred.
As a publication by ignoring the hatred and fear of one candidate and creating the perception of dishonesty by an other, you fail miserably..
As a publication by ignoring the hatred and fear of one candidate and creating the perception of dishonesty by an other, you fail miserably..
2
"If you saw Mr. Trump’s speech, and you care about the country and values of tolerance and human rights and weren’t disgusted, you were either fooled, or not paying attention."
I fully agree with this claim and with this editorial in general. But perhaps you could share it with some of your people in the news part of your paper? Here was the first line of the NYT article of the speech: "Donald J. Trump made an audacious attempt on Wednesday to remake his image on the divisive issue of immigration, shelving his plan to deport 11 million undocumented people and arguing that a Trump administration and Mexico would secure the border together." "Audacious"? "Shelved his plan"? The article goes on to describe Trump's "spirited" speech and assures us that Trump promised "that the fate of most illegal immigrants would be handled humanely," (he said nothing of the sort). Was the author of this account paying attention? Was he fooled?
How did this make it into the front page of the New York Times?
Look I don't expect editorializing in the news articles. But neither do I expect to read false and whitewashed accounts of Trump's speeches (whether done out of ignorance or a misguided desire to insert "balance" in the coverage). The stakes are very high in the election. The NYT has an obligation to report the dangers of the Trump campaign in a clear and unbiased manner.
I fully agree with this claim and with this editorial in general. But perhaps you could share it with some of your people in the news part of your paper? Here was the first line of the NYT article of the speech: "Donald J. Trump made an audacious attempt on Wednesday to remake his image on the divisive issue of immigration, shelving his plan to deport 11 million undocumented people and arguing that a Trump administration and Mexico would secure the border together." "Audacious"? "Shelved his plan"? The article goes on to describe Trump's "spirited" speech and assures us that Trump promised "that the fate of most illegal immigrants would be handled humanely," (he said nothing of the sort). Was the author of this account paying attention? Was he fooled?
How did this make it into the front page of the New York Times?
Look I don't expect editorializing in the news articles. But neither do I expect to read false and whitewashed accounts of Trump's speeches (whether done out of ignorance or a misguided desire to insert "balance" in the coverage). The stakes are very high in the election. The NYT has an obligation to report the dangers of the Trump campaign in a clear and unbiased manner.
17
I don't know if you saw the interview on CNN of a Trump surrogate from Iowa today and her answer to the quest of how much will the immigration offered by "Dumb Trump" will cost? Her answer it doesn't matter, big projects cost a lot of money. Again, CNN refuses to challenge anything a Trump surrogate says, they are the Trump campaigns enabler.
Trumps surrogates are even dumber than him. The current cost is estimate at 12 Billion and no, Trumps payment plan is to trust him because he is the only one who can save America. Sorry, but I don't trust Trump or any of his dumb surrogates. Trump will be going to Detroit to attend a black church, probably the first one he has even entered, and then do an interview with the pastor of that church who also has a media company. By the way, Trump will read a scripted sheet on air prepared by the media company. I guess Trump will ask the black community to "trust him" because he is the only person in the world who can save America and save the Black and Latino communities. Trump is the ISSL of America, he is the false prophet and the most dangerous threat to democracy I have ever experience in my 76 years on earth.
Trumps surrogates are even dumber than him. The current cost is estimate at 12 Billion and no, Trumps payment plan is to trust him because he is the only one who can save America. Sorry, but I don't trust Trump or any of his dumb surrogates. Trump will be going to Detroit to attend a black church, probably the first one he has even entered, and then do an interview with the pastor of that church who also has a media company. By the way, Trump will read a scripted sheet on air prepared by the media company. I guess Trump will ask the black community to "trust him" because he is the only person in the world who can save America and save the Black and Latino communities. Trump is the ISSL of America, he is the false prophet and the most dangerous threat to democracy I have ever experience in my 76 years on earth.
11
I heard Trump differently. He said illegal immigrants with
criminal record will be deported. A committee will be
set up to recommend what to do with other illegal
immigrants. It seems reasonable. Illegal is illegal.
Wonder what is Hillary Clinton's program. This problem
has been discussed for a long time and no solution
has been offered. Trump offering one.
criminal record will be deported. A committee will be
set up to recommend what to do with other illegal
immigrants. It seems reasonable. Illegal is illegal.
Wonder what is Hillary Clinton's program. This problem
has been discussed for a long time and no solution
has been offered. Trump offering one.
11
Spoken like a person who hasn't been paying attention the last eight years. or visited Hillaryclinton.com. No need to wonder. Seek and you will find.
5
Trump has offered several solutions, sometimes contradicting himself within a matter of hours.
Who will be on this committee? What type of authority would they have? How will all this be paid for?
Trump isn't offering solutions, he's offering fairy tales.
Who will be on this committee? What type of authority would they have? How will all this be paid for?
Trump isn't offering solutions, he's offering fairy tales.
3
It's hard to find a high road to take in these days of fear and scapegoats, but perhaps we could all benefit from an examination of our collective conscience by whatever means necessary - In "The Masque of the Red Death" by Edgar Allen Poe, Prince Prospero builds a fully walled castle and invite all his friends to keep out the red death only to discover that the red death lives within. I'm searching for a nation that solves problems through clear vision , hard work, a sense of fairness and an eye on the lives of our children. I certainly won't find it in the media because Il Trumpo seems to be everywhere with an audience of cheering fans- we must find it somewhere deeper in our sense of humanity itself.
5
When it comes to Americas melting pot Trump is following an old fashioned recipe heavy on the xenophobia with just a dash of racism.
By relying on the age-old tradition of stoking the public's fear of a shifting American demographics, the finger licking good recipe is guaranteed to please even the most persnickety white nationalists who fear a brown America and desperately cling to a dated notion of what a real American looks like.
In the great cultural cauldron of 20thcentury America there seemed to be one basic ingredient to being a real American- Caucasian.
Xenophobia was and is as American as Miss America and Apple Pie. Only the nationalities change with time. Once upon a time, Irish or Italian was too exotic to be considered an all American beauty. Take a look at some vintage ideas of "real" American beauty
http://wp.me/p2qifI-3Hc
By relying on the age-old tradition of stoking the public's fear of a shifting American demographics, the finger licking good recipe is guaranteed to please even the most persnickety white nationalists who fear a brown America and desperately cling to a dated notion of what a real American looks like.
In the great cultural cauldron of 20thcentury America there seemed to be one basic ingredient to being a real American- Caucasian.
Xenophobia was and is as American as Miss America and Apple Pie. Only the nationalities change with time. Once upon a time, Irish or Italian was too exotic to be considered an all American beauty. Take a look at some vintage ideas of "real" American beauty
http://wp.me/p2qifI-3Hc
4
I sometimes think that we all need to go through some level of economics 101 whenever an election is upon us.
Why don't we just arrest everyone for every infraction? Jay walking surely is as serious as murder, right????
It's about priorities. Is it more important to us that we detain/deport millions of undocumented immigrants who statistically, are not the root cause for our bigger issues (poverty, lack of education, hostile police forces, etc...)? It's not in my top 5 priorities.
Immigration reform is in my top 5. Any kind of reform that we can make won't start with rounding up people. It starts with examining the policies in place and modifying them based upon the direction we want to take our country in.
After the policies, then we need programs which are funded, to support those policies. This is the part where we have to decide if Program A in migration reform is more important than Program A in education (or whatever you deem as a priority). Not everything can be funded - we don't have an endless amount of funds. This is really no different than how you manage your household expenses. Are you gong to buy groceries this week or are you going to buy a new pair of shoes? Maybe you want both but reality is you may only be able to afford 1.
Why don't we just arrest everyone for every infraction? Jay walking surely is as serious as murder, right????
It's about priorities. Is it more important to us that we detain/deport millions of undocumented immigrants who statistically, are not the root cause for our bigger issues (poverty, lack of education, hostile police forces, etc...)? It's not in my top 5 priorities.
Immigration reform is in my top 5. Any kind of reform that we can make won't start with rounding up people. It starts with examining the policies in place and modifying them based upon the direction we want to take our country in.
After the policies, then we need programs which are funded, to support those policies. This is the part where we have to decide if Program A in migration reform is more important than Program A in education (or whatever you deem as a priority). Not everything can be funded - we don't have an endless amount of funds. This is really no different than how you manage your household expenses. Are you gong to buy groceries this week or are you going to buy a new pair of shoes? Maybe you want both but reality is you may only be able to afford 1.
3
The Editors are detached on this issue. The majority, yes the majority of Americans want our southern border secure and further are offended by Mexico using the United States as a ''safety valve'' because the Mexican government will not provide for its own citizens. When will the paper of record castigate Mexico for its cynical attempt to off-load its poor on the US Taxpayer? When will the Editors focus their concerns on American families here, as oppose to bleeding for illegal aliens both current and prospective?
18
Following your lead, the Alliance of Native North Americans have notified the United Kingdom and the European Union of their plans to deport all illegal aliens and their descendants who illegally entered their ancestral homeland over the past 500 years. Currently that's about 300 million people including you and your family.
5
This is where I have issues with this discussion, and some of the posts...the majority of Americans do not support deporting all of the illegal immigrants in the US, and would like to see a process for normalization. Yes, folks want a secure border (but appreciate that building a wall is a ridiculous suggestion), but do not support mass deportation. And there is no evidence that Mexico off-loads it's poor on the US. Further, there is no evidence that Americans are offended by Mexico using the US as a safety valve, whatever that means.
Amazing that this person as a candidate for the presidency of our country so completely ignores and conflates, deflates and twists facts. Illegal immigration is down. Illegals are hired as they have been for years and years to work on ranches, in cafes, now restaurants everywhere, on construction crews, rooftops, in hotels, as nannies: everywhere. I am a resident of this state and my mother was an aien--Hungarian. East of the 100th meridian, African-Americans are treated poorly, badly; west, it is Latinos/hispanics. Open borders not close them. We who live west of the 100th meridian value the cultural variety and richness we've been provided by the many Mexicans who are native Texans or those who have arrived more recently. And of course the country has benefitted as stated by a writer as emigration has moved in all directions following work, families, other reasons. Trump's plan for immigrants is not only anti-American, it is anti-economic, and would require additional funds for the increases in ICE's deportation officers and agents on the border. Texas benefits from being a neighbor of Mexico's, as does the country, from trade and business, as well as the cultural advantages of living next door to a country rich in history and tradition, cuisine, and the arts. Good grief. To what have we come?
3
If you have open borders you no longer have a country. Why is that so hard to grasp?
People (not actually the majority outside of the Editorial Board, SF, etc.) do not favor illegal immigration (note, there IS a distinction and it's significant), sanctuary cities, openly breaking our national laws, trashing our sovereignty. "To what have we come?" indeed!
People (not actually the majority outside of the Editorial Board, SF, etc.) do not favor illegal immigration (note, there IS a distinction and it's significant), sanctuary cities, openly breaking our national laws, trashing our sovereignty. "To what have we come?" indeed!
9
"This isn’t the full list, but it’s enough to show how drastically Mr. Trump wants to remake the country."
The New York Times editorial board has it backwards. Donald Trump wants to restore the country.
“We are five days away from fundamentally transforming the United States of America.” — Barack Obama, October 30, 2008
Donald Trump will purge the country of Obama-Clinton delusions, amateurism, indifference, corruption, lawlessness and perfidy.
He will protect and defend the Constitution and the people, his only charge as president.
15
Restore it to what? The time before the civil rights movement? The time before women could vote? How about the time before we abolished slavery?
4
Marian: with every speech, Trump trashes the constitution. He pretends the POTUS can make or change law. He pretends the POTUS can tell local police what to do. He pretends he can delete the right of citizenship by birth from the constitution. He's a loud-mouthed, ignorant bully.
6
They are not unauthorized immigrants. They are foreign nationals who are breaking our employment and immigration laws. Send them home and be done with it.
I hate Trump. He's a bad person. But he's right on this issue.
I hate Trump. He's a bad person. But he's right on this issue.
17
The cat: send them home? Tell us how, and while you're at it, tell us you're willing to pay a lot more for American produce and meats.
6
So you are saying this
they are entering from the border , traveling up, coming a town, and finding a restaurant or gardening or construction business , taking out their guns or knives threatening business owner , either they employ them or die.
Because your sentences apply not a passive existence , it implies actively forcing their way in.
If given a choice American business is going out and hire Americans. but illegals are blocking them.
they are entering from the border , traveling up, coming a town, and finding a restaurant or gardening or construction business , taking out their guns or knives threatening business owner , either they employ them or die.
Because your sentences apply not a passive existence , it implies actively forcing their way in.
If given a choice American business is going out and hire Americans. but illegals are blocking them.
2
@ dEs
We pay one way or another.
We pay one way or another.
1
What is wrong with any of Trump's suggestions, after all they are here illegally? Looking at these comments, when you can't get a plurality of NYT commenters to agree with the proposition that Trump is as evil as the editorial board says he is in this screed then I think all would have to admit that the prevailing attitude in this country is NOT in favor of open borders madness. Liberals, if you agree to accept financial responsibility for every illegal immigrant in this country then I will agree to support the proposition that conservative Republicans should be made financially responsible for every unwanted child born in this country.
12
Just google "economic feasibility Trump immigration plan".
5
Trump's positions here are unrealistic and inhumane. Clearly we need to keep an eye on what he's saying and do what we can to make sure he doesn't have the opportunity to implement this vision. Still, it would be more productive to direct some of our anger at the current and past legislators and executives who brought us to this point. Trump's ideas sound outrageous but they are not much more than the application of existing policies, laws and enforcement tools. Solving the immigration issue in a way other than what Trump is proposing will require siginficant changes to policy and law. If our lawmakers cannot get a better grasp of the situation through modifications to and enforcement of our laws then the Trump agenda will remain, however awful, somewhat legitimate.
11
SJG: reality check! "Our lawmakers," especially in the GOP do as their campaign-financing masters require. Are you prepared to pay a lot more for American fruit and veg and meats?
3
11 Million people don't just sit around, breath air and do nothing. They are deeply embedded in this economy.
Let's assume any one of them must spend $10 per day for food, bus tickets, water and other living expenses (and that's a low assumption)
11,000,000 x $10 = $110,000,000 per day
x 30 days = 3,300,000,000 per month
X 365 = $120,450,000,000 per year
Any suggestions how we make up for that Mr. Trump?
Let's assume any one of them must spend $10 per day for food, bus tickets, water and other living expenses (and that's a low assumption)
11,000,000 x $10 = $110,000,000 per day
x 30 days = 3,300,000,000 per month
X 365 = $120,450,000,000 per year
Any suggestions how we make up for that Mr. Trump?
7
You need to read up on the massive costs of having those illegals here, like the free healthcare/schooling/welfare/section 8 housing they collect, which FAR exceeds any sales or low income taxes they pay (assuming they are even on the books).
5
by hiring US citizens in their place, and don't hand me this garbage that Americans won't do construction.
6
Let's also assume you don't know anything about the true implications of a shadow work force, a criminal sub culture, the economics of crime victims, and caring for or incarcerating non-citizens.
1
Police officer: "Madam, you were going 50 mph in a school zone.?
Driver: "Why aren't you out catching murderers and other law breakers?"
Police officer: "Madam, you are a lawbreaker."
Driver: "Why aren't you out catching murderers and other law breakers?"
Police officer: "Madam, you are a lawbreaker."
7
Exactly, Adam Lanza was a murderer, Dylan Klebold was a murderer,
why you police man disturbing my reckless driving , and not you are not checking that latino looking guy , he may be illegal immigrant.
why you police man disturbing my reckless driving , and not you are not checking that latino looking guy , he may be illegal immigrant.
1
Please explain why citizens of this country must obey the law yet it is unreasonable to:
(1) deport those convicted of serious crimes;
(2) deport those who violate the law by overstaying visas;
(3) immediately returning those who come here illegally before they can establish roots here;
(4) enacting reasonable increases in border security;
(5) acting against cities that willfully refuse to cooperate with Federal law. enforcement. (the Federal government strictly enforces the law when it comes to improper restrictions on voting rights and housing discrimination, for instance, and cities and states must follow federal law in these areas -- Why is Federal supremacy ignored re: immigration laws?
Even if is infeasible and inhumane to deport all who are here without documentation, why is it wrong to take steps short of that?
(1) deport those convicted of serious crimes;
(2) deport those who violate the law by overstaying visas;
(3) immediately returning those who come here illegally before they can establish roots here;
(4) enacting reasonable increases in border security;
(5) acting against cities that willfully refuse to cooperate with Federal law. enforcement. (the Federal government strictly enforces the law when it comes to improper restrictions on voting rights and housing discrimination, for instance, and cities and states must follow federal law in these areas -- Why is Federal supremacy ignored re: immigration laws?
Even if is infeasible and inhumane to deport all who are here without documentation, why is it wrong to take steps short of that?
20
All those things are already happening, according to you, our south border is the same as Mali's saharan borders.
Thousands of police . law enforcement agents are working hard to keep up with the job.
Thousands of police . law enforcement agents are working hard to keep up with the job.
2
Basically Trump says that we have a sovereign right to secure boarders, and that criminal illegal aliens will be targeted as a priority. Don't listen to the NYT, they have an agenda that does not include being truthful.
16
Yes, he said that and then he said good people were coming up to him and telling him he needed to be more humane so he claimed he would be, then he flip flopped again etc.
What he has never said is how he would pay for any of this. He has never provided proof that his businesses aren't employing illegal immigrant labor. He's never delivered on his promise to explain his current wife's entrance into the U.S.
What he has never said is how he would pay for any of this. He has never provided proof that his businesses aren't employing illegal immigrant labor. He's never delivered on his promise to explain his current wife's entrance into the U.S.
2
About four years ago the NYT ran an editorial which half-heartedly approved having illegal immigrants self-deport and apply for legal entry. Check your archives.
I worked in Guangzhou, China for several years and any time I passed the U.S Consulate, there was a very long line of people waiting to apply for entry to the U.S. They knew the chances were slight and if approved, it would take years. The same scene occurs at diplomatic stations in countries across the globe that are not near or close to our southern border.
People in other countries have known and resented our policies for years before Donald Trump appeared on the political scene.. Much of his plan is unrealistic but the current situation is appalling.
I worked in Guangzhou, China for several years and any time I passed the U.S Consulate, there was a very long line of people waiting to apply for entry to the U.S. They knew the chances were slight and if approved, it would take years. The same scene occurs at diplomatic stations in countries across the globe that are not near or close to our southern border.
People in other countries have known and resented our policies for years before Donald Trump appeared on the political scene.. Much of his plan is unrealistic but the current situation is appalling.
6
What exactly is appalling about the current situation? What actual harm can you document?
3
What is the argument in favor of allowing people to sneak into this country?
The fact is that strolling across the border from Mexico is intolerable. Try strolling into Canada or Switzerland of pretty much any other normal country. Se where that gets you. We ARE entitled to exercise border control.
The further fact of the matter is that many of the people who sneak in here from Mexico are not Mexicans but from other Central American countries.
That said, we need these people. Americans have gotten lazy. These folks pick our fruits and vegetables, they slaughter our meat, they clean and paint our homes and offices, they mow our lawns and fix our roofs. They babysit our kids and clean their bottoms. They are, for the most part, not troublemakers.
Clearly. we need to do something to balance these competing interests, border control and our need for labor.
The fact is that strolling across the border from Mexico is intolerable. Try strolling into Canada or Switzerland of pretty much any other normal country. Se where that gets you. We ARE entitled to exercise border control.
The further fact of the matter is that many of the people who sneak in here from Mexico are not Mexicans but from other Central American countries.
That said, we need these people. Americans have gotten lazy. These folks pick our fruits and vegetables, they slaughter our meat, they clean and paint our homes and offices, they mow our lawns and fix our roofs. They babysit our kids and clean their bottoms. They are, for the most part, not troublemakers.
Clearly. we need to do something to balance these competing interests, border control and our need for labor.
5
Long ago It stopped making sense to me that anything which comes out of the mind and mouth of Donald Trump is considered worthy of attention or acknowledgment much less debate or discussion as if it has any sort of credibility. It doesn't. It's hot air.
Bottom line, as I see it, Donald Trump has always had a single focus, namely getting attention, approval and validation from his slavish base. He's addicted to it. So whatever he says is for that purpose; for the care and feeding of his base, from which he gets his emotional payoff. I honestly believe that there's nothing more there there; nothing more rattling around in his uninformed oblivious to a broader reality brain..
It could even be said that DT is actually nothing more than a hedonist having fun, obsessed with winning just to prove to himself he can win or at least get close. Like playing a board game, Monopoly for example. And that's regardless of the impact on our election process or it causing global confusion. I also believe he really doesn't want the responsibilities of being president, commander in chief, and leader of the free world he deep down realizes is over his head. Besides all of that responsibility would cease to be fun.
Now, if we and the media would get over our own Trump addiction and put what he says and does in the proper mindless/seeking attention perspective and spend more time ignoring him than attending to him, that would do us all and the world a big favor.
Bottom line, as I see it, Donald Trump has always had a single focus, namely getting attention, approval and validation from his slavish base. He's addicted to it. So whatever he says is for that purpose; for the care and feeding of his base, from which he gets his emotional payoff. I honestly believe that there's nothing more there there; nothing more rattling around in his uninformed oblivious to a broader reality brain..
It could even be said that DT is actually nothing more than a hedonist having fun, obsessed with winning just to prove to himself he can win or at least get close. Like playing a board game, Monopoly for example. And that's regardless of the impact on our election process or it causing global confusion. I also believe he really doesn't want the responsibilities of being president, commander in chief, and leader of the free world he deep down realizes is over his head. Besides all of that responsibility would cease to be fun.
Now, if we and the media would get over our own Trump addiction and put what he says and does in the proper mindless/seeking attention perspective and spend more time ignoring him than attending to him, that would do us all and the world a big favor.
4
The lack of empathy in Trump's supporters and some commentators here continues to amaze me. Most of the illegal immigrants left their home because of poverty, violence or intolerance. They came to US knowing they were breaking the law or knowing they were going to overstay their visas. To us who are born in US or living legally in US, its easy to say to them that they broke the law and there must be consequence. To them, its about feeding their family or keeping them safe. I say we have a very weak argument.
4
What I find amusing is how quickly they flip flop along with Trump. When Trump briefly came over all warm and fuzzy and compassionate the Trump lemmings praised him for being such a nice guy. Now that he's back to treating people like vermin they are back to spewing hate speech.
3
The liar in chief taking his clown show on the road. I did not even see anyone in front of the podium , were they in a bomb shelter somewhere? This charlatan, says one thing to Mexico and the opposite a few hours latter in front of one of his collesuim style beat down fests.This man gets worse by the day. On the other hand if his visit causes Pena to topple, maybe he is ut secret weapon ready for road show, all aboard for PYONGYANG!
4
Well, there's a silver lining in every dark cloud.
Mr. Trump's immigration program would vastly increase the gig economy for those of us lucky enough to be American. Once those terrible job-stealing Mexicans are sent back across the border where they belong, America's underemployed young people will find no end of new employment opportunities.
Why drive for Uber and Lyft when you could be bussing dishes or washing them, hoeing crops or picking them, cleaning motel rooms or looking after rich people's children?
Mr. Trump's immigration program would vastly increase the gig economy for those of us lucky enough to be American. Once those terrible job-stealing Mexicans are sent back across the border where they belong, America's underemployed young people will find no end of new employment opportunities.
Why drive for Uber and Lyft when you could be bussing dishes or washing them, hoeing crops or picking them, cleaning motel rooms or looking after rich people's children?
8
"Who will do the work?" they complain. Ever hear of Americans? They are great workers. Just give them a chance.
One of these American workers got a summer job in a fish processing plant up in Alaska. She wore knee-high boots and stood in bloody water as she scooped out salmon guts with a spoon. Years later she said about the job, "Best preparation for being in Washington that you can imagine." Yes, that was Hillary Clinton wearing those boots.
http://www.businessinsider.com/hillary-clintons-summer-job-2015-7
One of these American workers got a summer job in a fish processing plant up in Alaska. She wore knee-high boots and stood in bloody water as she scooped out salmon guts with a spoon. Years later she said about the job, "Best preparation for being in Washington that you can imagine." Yes, that was Hillary Clinton wearing those boots.
http://www.businessinsider.com/hillary-clintons-summer-job-2015-7
9
True enough, also true is the story Scott Pelley did with the strawberry farmer who had crops rotting on the ground because he couldn't find people to do the harvest, even though he was paying a good wage.
Add up the number of these jobs, add up the number of citizens born in the U.S. willing and able to do them, add up the cost to the economy if we pay them a living wage for these jobs and if you don't want to pay them a living wage, add up the cost of subsidizing them. When you're done doing some basic math, get back to us.
Add up the number of these jobs, add up the number of citizens born in the U.S. willing and able to do them, add up the cost to the economy if we pay them a living wage for these jobs and if you don't want to pay them a living wage, add up the cost of subsidizing them. When you're done doing some basic math, get back to us.
4
Trump's hateful, racist bombasts bring new meaning to FDR's famous warning that "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself!" But that's not all of it: The other thing we have to fear are the raucous, shouting Trump supporters who are not going away even if Trump loses. They have now been energized. And they will make non-whites, and non so-called Christians, miserable.
7
Trump wants to deport illegal aliens. Clinton wants to make them citizens. I hear no one proposing a realistic solution. Border walls are unnecessary and mass deportation is unrealistic. Granting a path to citizenship will encourage more illegal immigration.
What we really need to do is to implement e-Verify and severely punish employers who hire (and exploit) illegal aliens. Without jobs people won't come here illegally and many of those here already will return home - as they did when jobs disappeared during the Great Recession. Then we can discuss changes to the LEGAL immigration system to meet the country's needs.
The NYT has railed against e-Verify as a flawed database but I'm guessing it's at least as reliable as using the terrorist watch list to deny gun purchases - which the NYT favors. So I would propose we implement both, with the same rights of appeal if someone claims the data is erroneous.
What we really need to do is to implement e-Verify and severely punish employers who hire (and exploit) illegal aliens. Without jobs people won't come here illegally and many of those here already will return home - as they did when jobs disappeared during the Great Recession. Then we can discuss changes to the LEGAL immigration system to meet the country's needs.
The NYT has railed against e-Verify as a flawed database but I'm guessing it's at least as reliable as using the terrorist watch list to deny gun purchases - which the NYT favors. So I would propose we implement both, with the same rights of appeal if someone claims the data is erroneous.
9
Some questions about Mr. Trump's plan:
(1) What will be the result of the plan? After it's all over (in about 20 years or so), and there are no more illegal people in the US, what will happen? How will our lives be improved? Will all the unemployed coal miners in West Virginia be employed in other states as agricultural workers, hotel maids, chauffeurs and food processors? Will unemployment in the US disappear altogether? Will crime be a thing of the past?
(2) What will Mr. Trump do if the country of origin refuses to accept a criminal back? Right now, US law says if they've served their US sentence and their country of origin refuses them, they must be released. Will he just keep them incarcerated forever?
(3) What about asylum seekers? US law provides that before a person can be deported, they have a right to appear before an immigration judge to determine if they are political refugees and have a claim to asylum in the US. Will he just ignore the law, and send people back to what is certain death in some cases?
(4) What if Congress won't go along with Trump's plan and refuses to provide the billions of dollars it will take to finance it? And, if they will go along with it, where will those billions of dollars come from? He's certainly familiar with bankruptcy, but will he go so far as to bankrupt the country to pay for his plan?
(1) What will be the result of the plan? After it's all over (in about 20 years or so), and there are no more illegal people in the US, what will happen? How will our lives be improved? Will all the unemployed coal miners in West Virginia be employed in other states as agricultural workers, hotel maids, chauffeurs and food processors? Will unemployment in the US disappear altogether? Will crime be a thing of the past?
(2) What will Mr. Trump do if the country of origin refuses to accept a criminal back? Right now, US law says if they've served their US sentence and their country of origin refuses them, they must be released. Will he just keep them incarcerated forever?
(3) What about asylum seekers? US law provides that before a person can be deported, they have a right to appear before an immigration judge to determine if they are political refugees and have a claim to asylum in the US. Will he just ignore the law, and send people back to what is certain death in some cases?
(4) What if Congress won't go along with Trump's plan and refuses to provide the billions of dollars it will take to finance it? And, if they will go along with it, where will those billions of dollars come from? He's certainly familiar with bankruptcy, but will he go so far as to bankrupt the country to pay for his plan?
4
Trump is a nonstop desensitization machine who will numb you to suicide.
I don't see much hope for a nation that sees any future in electing psychopaths to public offices.
I don't see much hope for a nation that sees any future in electing psychopaths to public offices.
8
Immigration is a topic for debate--as it has been since about the time the republic was founded. Is there anyone opposing Mr. Trump in this election to offer any opposite reflections or agreement with his position? On any given day, there are about a half-dozen anti-Trump stories and opinion pieces on the home page of The Times (not even counting the break out by sections when you scroll down) and nary a word about Ms. Clinton. To read these pieces is to presume that the election is but a referendum on Mr. Trump. Or is the anger with him so intense that, coupled with the awareness that Mr. Clinton shares Mr. Trump's ability to lose votes whenever she speaks, the feeling is that it is best not to report what she says?
2
The stench of hypocrisy pervades the vitriol of the Trump immigration pronouncements.The issue is who is more culpable the "illegal"immigrant or the thousands of "legal" citizens employing them at cut rate wages and enriching themselves.The produce industry,meat packing,construction,landscaping and on and on have done very well!!.Much easier to deport hapless illegals than to prosecute employers.Inspite of EVERIFY very few have been fined.to paraphrase Stella in A street car named desire,"we have always depended on the kindness and "labor"of legal and illegal immigrants.
2
DJT,
the self-made and self-proclaimed titular head of the republican't party...
wonderful news from he PHX speech:
lots of federal jobs on the offer,
particularly for goon squads, storm troopers,
and kangaroo courts galore.
along with monstrous private-party-for-hire prisons,
detainee centers, and transport operators.
what a terrific vision from the no-government folks.
wonder how DJT will manage the
" ...And they'll be brought great distances. ..."
when air-space authorizations and landing permissions
are denied, and no bus or sea armada can find a port
or terminal for disembarkation.
exactly where are these far-away-places pray tell?
'course no "wall" is impenetrable ...
and no technology presently exists to halt all tunneling ...
to say nothing of the costs of implementation and maintenance.
the new-crew advising this bully have made no discernible difference...
what a continuing mess.
will the self-cripalling HRC convince enough non-voters
to go to the polls in November?
hmmmmm
we already know that there is a yuuuuge mob at the gates
that cannot wait to send us back to the 1850s or earlier.
vote, people, vote...
2
This reminds me of the "War on Drugs". How realistic has it been to classify so many drugs as illegal, jail every drug dealer, every drug user and every criminal activity associated with drugs?
It's been a billions, if not trillions, of dollars fiasco and failure. That is, if the real intent was to stop drugs from entering the country from south of the border.
Should our borders be open with mass immigration allowed? The answer is obviously no, but it is now no more realistic to deport those already here than it is to keep marijuana in the same classification as heroin. In fact, statistics show immigrants are less likely to commit crimes than the native born population.
While his policy is clearly not realistic, the real danger is his words. Whipping emotions into a frenzy to demonize and dehumanize others.
Thank you Rush, Glen, FOX, Ryan, McConnell and the rest. Look at that audience and the reaction he got. Whether screaming "liar" at our President in the middle of the State of Union address, shutting down the government, stating the intent to not govern in order to sabotage a Presidency or not performing the Constitutional duty of voting on a Supreme Court nominee, this is your hatred, your audience. Own it.
It's been a billions, if not trillions, of dollars fiasco and failure. That is, if the real intent was to stop drugs from entering the country from south of the border.
Should our borders be open with mass immigration allowed? The answer is obviously no, but it is now no more realistic to deport those already here than it is to keep marijuana in the same classification as heroin. In fact, statistics show immigrants are less likely to commit crimes than the native born population.
While his policy is clearly not realistic, the real danger is his words. Whipping emotions into a frenzy to demonize and dehumanize others.
Thank you Rush, Glen, FOX, Ryan, McConnell and the rest. Look at that audience and the reaction he got. Whether screaming "liar" at our President in the middle of the State of Union address, shutting down the government, stating the intent to not govern in order to sabotage a Presidency or not performing the Constitutional duty of voting on a Supreme Court nominee, this is your hatred, your audience. Own it.
8
The only thing I am confused by, is the constant anti-Trump rhetoric that appears in the New York Times. If a president cannot solve problems on home soil, why should he/she think they can have any influence in any other part of the world?
Which other country in the world, except the U.S., could I simply 'slip into', work, prosper, and benefit from, without going through immigration? NONE. Yet the U.S. turns a blind eye to illegal immigration from Mexico, and anyone who states that something should be done about it, is made a pariah, and accused of being a bigot.
If the U.S. can benefit from Mexican workers, why doesn't it simply make Mexico the 53rd state in the union? Then it wouldn't have to worry about walls, or tracking illegals with dogs and guns. Wouldn't this be more humane than having them live in your midst as unknowns, practically slaves?
On the other hand, they could come is as refugees. Then they would be sent to the front of the line, receiving citizenship and benefits, free education and health care, within the first year of arrival. The red carpet would be rolled out for them. Yes perhaps that's the answer. Instead of referring to Mexican illegals as illegals, simply call them 'refugees'. That would solve all of the problems. They are, after all, America's closest neighbours. Shouldn't they be as worthy of the this status as anyone else?
Which other country in the world, except the U.S., could I simply 'slip into', work, prosper, and benefit from, without going through immigration? NONE. Yet the U.S. turns a blind eye to illegal immigration from Mexico, and anyone who states that something should be done about it, is made a pariah, and accused of being a bigot.
If the U.S. can benefit from Mexican workers, why doesn't it simply make Mexico the 53rd state in the union? Then it wouldn't have to worry about walls, or tracking illegals with dogs and guns. Wouldn't this be more humane than having them live in your midst as unknowns, practically slaves?
On the other hand, they could come is as refugees. Then they would be sent to the front of the line, receiving citizenship and benefits, free education and health care, within the first year of arrival. The red carpet would be rolled out for them. Yes perhaps that's the answer. Instead of referring to Mexican illegals as illegals, simply call them 'refugees'. That would solve all of the problems. They are, after all, America's closest neighbours. Shouldn't they be as worthy of the this status as anyone else?
2
Some people (not me, but some people) are saying Trump appeared statesmanlike in Mexico. You know, Vladimir Putin also sounded very statesmanlike in his recent interview, where he criticized both Trump and Clinton for the tone of their rhetoric. Himself, Putin is a very smooth talker when he wants to be — far, far better at it than Trump.
But in that regard, it's interesting to note that on this immigration thing, Trump is once again advancing Putin's interest. After all, what would Russia like better than for the U.S. to be deeply at odds with our immediate neighbor to the south — and to be showing the world that just like the authoritarian regimes of the world, we are eager to target large masses of people for extreme police oppression?
The more obnoxious, aggressive, and arbitrary we are, the more our politicians appeal to crude nationalism and racism, the more like a strong-man regime we appear to the rest of the world. And that is all good for the Russian autocrat.
How we treat the good hearted, well meaning people who come here to do honest labor is a big part of how we distinguish ourselves from the puppet states and the despotisms. America needs to show the world, and ourselves, a natural, friendly, human face. A face like, I don't know, Tim Kaine's face for example.
But in that regard, it's interesting to note that on this immigration thing, Trump is once again advancing Putin's interest. After all, what would Russia like better than for the U.S. to be deeply at odds with our immediate neighbor to the south — and to be showing the world that just like the authoritarian regimes of the world, we are eager to target large masses of people for extreme police oppression?
The more obnoxious, aggressive, and arbitrary we are, the more our politicians appeal to crude nationalism and racism, the more like a strong-man regime we appear to the rest of the world. And that is all good for the Russian autocrat.
How we treat the good hearted, well meaning people who come here to do honest labor is a big part of how we distinguish ourselves from the puppet states and the despotisms. America needs to show the world, and ourselves, a natural, friendly, human face. A face like, I don't know, Tim Kaine's face for example.
4
Lets be clear about what deporting 11 million human beings will create - including many American Citizens caught up in the Great Trumpian Dragnet - one of the largest and massive refugee and humanitarian crisis ever in the Americas and the world. Intentional unleashing of human suffering by Trump and his vindictive callous supporters is, in this case, a form of ethnic cleansing. What's next? Are we going to start confiscating prime land south of the wall/border for "settlements" and blow up the houses of illegal immigrant's families?
"Forcing Mexico" to pay for HIS wall is no different than his normal daily business practice of "forcing others" to pay for his boondoggles or covering his losses or having others pay the taxes he doesn't.
The NYT article on tunneling under the wall missed one obvious method around the wall - overhead with drones - "a la Amazon". While the additional 5,000 border agents are looking to the ground they will miss the drones overhead making direct deliveries to "users". Perhaps Trump can tax the drugs to pay for his wall.
I hope Congress will have the good sense to block any appointment of Joe Arpaio to any post Trump nominates him too - especial attorney general (I guess that is Giuliani's) or head of DHS.
"Forcing Mexico" to pay for HIS wall is no different than his normal daily business practice of "forcing others" to pay for his boondoggles or covering his losses or having others pay the taxes he doesn't.
The NYT article on tunneling under the wall missed one obvious method around the wall - overhead with drones - "a la Amazon". While the additional 5,000 border agents are looking to the ground they will miss the drones overhead making direct deliveries to "users". Perhaps Trump can tax the drugs to pay for his wall.
I hope Congress will have the good sense to block any appointment of Joe Arpaio to any post Trump nominates him too - especial attorney general (I guess that is Giuliani's) or head of DHS.
5
Will the New York Times ever acknowledge that Mr Trump is simply proposing to enforce existing laws?
13
They won't because he isn't.
3
Do you always cherry pick as you read?
2
I don't see why they should, because he isn't.
We don't have existing laws to build a trillion-dollar wall on our border, or triple the ICE forces, or go around harassing all Latinos in case they're illegal, or have a special force for rounding up illegal immigrants that can apparently ignore the 4th Amendment.
Will Trump supporters ever realize their view of him and reality is dangerously delusional?
We don't have existing laws to build a trillion-dollar wall on our border, or triple the ICE forces, or go around harassing all Latinos in case they're illegal, or have a special force for rounding up illegal immigrants that can apparently ignore the 4th Amendment.
Will Trump supporters ever realize their view of him and reality is dangerously delusional?
3
Shame on you NY times for not paying attention. In his speech trump stated unequivocally, that after building his fantasy wall he would basically do... nothing. Follow laws already in place and then several years down the road, reassess.
2
Which speech are you referring to? Trump has given several speeches on this topic and he has changed his positions multiple times.
2
Mother Jones is running pieces about Trump's use of illegal immigrants in his modeling business. Why is this not being "investigated" to see if there's any fire under this smoke? Why is Hillary Clinton the only one subject to "investigation" by the press and various members of Congress? http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/08/donald-trump-model-managemen...
6
Trump has employed many latinos to build his golf courses, resorts, buildings, etc. Mexicans have contributed to the US since its inception. Historically, the southwestern states such as California, New Mexico, Arizona, Texas belonged to Mexico. California was revoked from them. The Hispanics have partaken in the North American continent history long before the puritans anchored ship as the Mexicans have a Spanish background as well. Its history will show how Hispanic culture shaped the nation into what it is today. Additionally they have also culturally enriched the country through its architecture, food, music, art, literature and film. Trump´s views are ignorant and not progressive for our day in age. He should give an apology for the unfair and harsh treatment he has shown to the Mexican culture.
4
Those of us who support Trump and heard the speech on his 10-point immigration policy, were neither fooled nor failed to pay attention as the article seemed to suggest. We are smart enough to draw our own conclusion. He will be compassionate in dealing with illegals as he had been in his business. In any event Mr. Trump will be no worse than the President who was labelled as “Deporter in Chief” by media once.
1
The similarity of the Trump proposals and possible presidency to Sinclair Lewis's 1935 novel "It Can't Happen Here" is uncanny. And ultimately quite frightening. Heaven help us if Trump were somehow elected! Once the "illegal undesirables" have been ousted, who would be next? Blacks? Gays? Jews? The disabled? Whether or not any of Trump's ideas are actually practical or doable, just the thought of them--and citizens of our country screaming in support of them--is very, very depressing, and chilling.
5
''We are all racists now'' The NYT resorts to out and out lies,name calling and hallucinations to smear anyone who believes in the rule of law. Conspiracy theories abound,Trump's secret police will round up anyone in it's path to pack and enrich the private prison industry.''Corrupt local police officers will pick up anyone they want, knowing Mr. Trump’s agents will swiftly take suspects off their hands'' I guess the police will have to cut back on shooting young black men to have the time to pull that one off.
''This isn’t the full list, but it’s enough to show how drastically Mr. Trump wants to remake the country''. What country are you talking about NYT? The NYT utopian open border one world socialist paradise or an America that is ruled by laws and the Constitution that most of us want to live in.
''No. 4 is a gift to an ICE union that endorsed Mr. Trump, and a plan to make the most bloated federal law-enforcement bureaucracy, Homeland Security, even bigger.'' The NYT is against gifts to government unions and bloated federal bureaucracies,who knew!? When is the NYT going to acknowledge that there are tens if not hundreds of thousands of criminal illegal immigrants in our country costing the taxpayer billions.In the NYT eyes if you are killed by a cop you become a martyr regardless of the facts,if you get killed by an illegal immigrant it's just the price of living in the NYT land of tolerance and compassion.
It's time for the NYT to get some adults on it's edit board
''This isn’t the full list, but it’s enough to show how drastically Mr. Trump wants to remake the country''. What country are you talking about NYT? The NYT utopian open border one world socialist paradise or an America that is ruled by laws and the Constitution that most of us want to live in.
''No. 4 is a gift to an ICE union that endorsed Mr. Trump, and a plan to make the most bloated federal law-enforcement bureaucracy, Homeland Security, even bigger.'' The NYT is against gifts to government unions and bloated federal bureaucracies,who knew!? When is the NYT going to acknowledge that there are tens if not hundreds of thousands of criminal illegal immigrants in our country costing the taxpayer billions.In the NYT eyes if you are killed by a cop you become a martyr regardless of the facts,if you get killed by an illegal immigrant it's just the price of living in the NYT land of tolerance and compassion.
It's time for the NYT to get some adults on it's edit board
10
Phelan that sady will never happen because the corporate interests that own and run the NYT like carlos slim have ensured their open border agenda feeding their corporate empires must be promulgated daily.
Note how hard the NYT works every day to attack Trump in the hopes he won't be elected lest the corporate entities' cash cows (H1B visa workers stealing jobs from americans, cheap illegal labor working in hotels, construction, fast foot, etc) be affected.
As long as the american public refuses to acknowledge that the illegals represent a mass transfer of wealth from the middle class to the corporates, and won't rise up to destroy the unholy alliance of democratic party-corporate interests-far left activists-leftwing news media outlets this outrage will continue until the country is becomes a mass poor dump with a handful of wealthy running it.
Note how hard the NYT works every day to attack Trump in the hopes he won't be elected lest the corporate entities' cash cows (H1B visa workers stealing jobs from americans, cheap illegal labor working in hotels, construction, fast foot, etc) be affected.
As long as the american public refuses to acknowledge that the illegals represent a mass transfer of wealth from the middle class to the corporates, and won't rise up to destroy the unholy alliance of democratic party-corporate interests-far left activists-leftwing news media outlets this outrage will continue until the country is becomes a mass poor dump with a handful of wealthy running it.
1
I'm torn. Part of me really wants the Times to shred Trump's policy proposals in editorials like this. And part of me truly resents the fact that the Times has to waste its resources explaining the obvious to voters who should be able to see for themselves the utter unsuitability of this man and his ideas for any role whatsoever at any level of government.
Part of me, the ignoble part to be sure, just wants every editorial between now and Election Day to be headlined "How can the Trump Voter be so Stupid?"
Part of me, the ignoble part to be sure, just wants every editorial between now and Election Day to be headlined "How can the Trump Voter be so Stupid?"
4
This is going to ruin the restaurant business, big time.
7
How about deporting the people caught on camera spewing horrible, racist and often threatening language at political rallies? Why are these people, simply because they were born here, more deserving than immigrants who often risk their lives to get here in order to pursue a better life? I, for one, feel safer living along side immigrants than angry, hateful and seemingly threatening people who by no other means than simply being born here are American.
7
Because they are American citizens and deserve all the rights it affords, like freedom of speech.
9
American citizens are entitled to do also violent crimes and not even mentioned on Trump rallies such as Orlando, sandy hook, aurora columbine.
but Illegal immigrants are denigrated because couple of them drive drunk and killed innocent people.
but Illegal immigrants are denigrated because couple of them drive drunk and killed innocent people.
So, Mr. Trump proposes that the United States of America actually enforce its duly-passed immigration laws and the NY Times editorial board is aghast.
Presumably, as it is by now clear that the NY Times editorial board essentially comprises the media wing for the Hillary campaign, Hillary instead supports ignoring the law, i.e., she pledges that she will NOT do her job as Chief Executive.
If you are disgusted that a candidate to lead the country as its Chief Executive pledges to enforce the laws according to the Constitutional mandate of the office he seeks, then perhaps you don't really care much for the country he seeks to lead.
Presumably, as it is by now clear that the NY Times editorial board essentially comprises the media wing for the Hillary campaign, Hillary instead supports ignoring the law, i.e., she pledges that she will NOT do her job as Chief Executive.
If you are disgusted that a candidate to lead the country as its Chief Executive pledges to enforce the laws according to the Constitutional mandate of the office he seeks, then perhaps you don't really care much for the country he seeks to lead.
12
Trump is not the problem. He holds a mirror up to America and reveals in full shocking detail horrific truths about an incredibly large segment of our people.
We are NOT the nation some of us thought we were. We should be grateful that the Trump candidacy, whatever its outcome, has revealed a huge problem that, if left unaddressed, will threaten the future of the USA as a democracy founded on Enlightenment values.
We would benefit from adopting, and promoting, the third of the Republican ideals that after the Revolution became the enduring values of France: FRATERNITY.
We lack a belief in brotherhood. We need to embrace it. I hear little or no echo of this essential civic value in all the blather of this blighted presidential race. A very weak version is to found in Hillary's "Stronger Together."
We need to do better. And we'd better learn how very, very quickly.
We are NOT the nation some of us thought we were. We should be grateful that the Trump candidacy, whatever its outcome, has revealed a huge problem that, if left unaddressed, will threaten the future of the USA as a democracy founded on Enlightenment values.
We would benefit from adopting, and promoting, the third of the Republican ideals that after the Revolution became the enduring values of France: FRATERNITY.
We lack a belief in brotherhood. We need to embrace it. I hear little or no echo of this essential civic value in all the blather of this blighted presidential race. A very weak version is to found in Hillary's "Stronger Together."
We need to do better. And we'd better learn how very, very quickly.
8
Trumps sees hotel workers, and landscapers, as being the same as rapists and murderers, and drug lords and gang members. They're all the same to him. They all look alike. He's going to "make 'Merica great again."
7
The monsters and fiends that are ISIS must be chortling and laughing in their caves as they watch America devolve into inward-thinking, myopic stupidity.
Presided over by the slickest and most ignorant con artist known to man.
Presided over by the slickest and most ignorant con artist known to man.
4
Why is it only the illegal immigrants that are the center of attention and never the employers of these people. From what I've seen these immigrant workers are hard working, trustworthy people that are being taken advantage of by employers that don't want to pay minimum, Social Security taxes or follow basic employment laws that a US citizen wouldn't stand for. If Trump was so aggressive about going after the employers he wouldn't have to deport these people, they would leave on their own due to lack of employment. Then the employers would have to pay a realistic wage to hire US workers.
154
What kind of utter nonsense is this? Trump will deport all the labor force of his hotels???
Trump told the NYT in January he puts forward bargaining chips and then negotiates them away. He knows the Democrats are going to have at least 41 Senators. So he makes tough statements so the most anti-immigration forces trust him and will come along when he is "forced" to accept amnesty to get the Democratic support for a limitation of illegal and legal immigration. And he won't have to close down his hotels.
He is just repeating current law that illegals must go to their home country to apply when they are approved. Even if they are married and have an American-born child. It takes about a month, which is a joy because they haven't seen their family for years.
Of course, the real Wall Street journal (the New York Times) is afraid he would succeed and wages might go up and hurt profits.
Does the Times think that the Lady Macbeth of Little Rock, as the Wash Post reported in January 1993 she was called, is going to have a great bargaining relationship with the Republican House. Incidentally, it called her this because of her fight to get the Vice President's Office in the White House and yelled at Bill so loudly about it that she was overheard outside the room.
There was a reason that Gore endorsed her only in the last week or so, and in such grudging language. It was his office she wanted. The NYT will, of course, report this in all the investigatory articles it plans.
Trump told the NYT in January he puts forward bargaining chips and then negotiates them away. He knows the Democrats are going to have at least 41 Senators. So he makes tough statements so the most anti-immigration forces trust him and will come along when he is "forced" to accept amnesty to get the Democratic support for a limitation of illegal and legal immigration. And he won't have to close down his hotels.
He is just repeating current law that illegals must go to their home country to apply when they are approved. Even if they are married and have an American-born child. It takes about a month, which is a joy because they haven't seen their family for years.
Of course, the real Wall Street journal (the New York Times) is afraid he would succeed and wages might go up and hurt profits.
Does the Times think that the Lady Macbeth of Little Rock, as the Wash Post reported in January 1993 she was called, is going to have a great bargaining relationship with the Republican House. Incidentally, it called her this because of her fight to get the Vice President's Office in the White House and yelled at Bill so loudly about it that she was overheard outside the room.
There was a reason that Gore endorsed her only in the last week or so, and in such grudging language. It was his office she wanted. The NYT will, of course, report this in all the investigatory articles it plans.
2
I see Trump as the embodiment of the "Good Old Boy" network and there I lies his appeal to white, straight, middle-aged to older men who've always run the world and are desperately trying to keep that control. His immigration policy is more of the same: don't punish the employer, punish the employee. It's the same mindset as those policies that arrest a woman for prostition, but ignore the man who's paying her.
9
Trump's blatant blatherskite is rapidly reaching eternity. Even a less educated person can see Trump as a quintessential example of a quacksalver. One only hopes he becomes quickly a fugacious fellow in the political arena.
As an example, his slapdash trip to Mexico did not make him sagacious, but contributed, conceivably, to his support staff's donnybrook with the media, who try desperately to put him on a pedestal. It is almost certain he will keep on unleashing a barrage of blarney in his future policy making endeavors.
Hillary's beguiling behavior needs some tweaking as well. She has not had a press conference in 272 days. It is hard to brush aside that, and this adds testimony to her cavalier attitude, if not nothing else.
As a lawyer from Yale, one would have expected her to be much more prudent, but the missteps she had chosen to take, wittingly or unwittingly, have been serving as ample evidence revealing her sloppy side. Strikingly enough, to add fuel to fire, she is still behaving like a crosspatch at times.
One can not wait for the debates.
As an example, his slapdash trip to Mexico did not make him sagacious, but contributed, conceivably, to his support staff's donnybrook with the media, who try desperately to put him on a pedestal. It is almost certain he will keep on unleashing a barrage of blarney in his future policy making endeavors.
Hillary's beguiling behavior needs some tweaking as well. She has not had a press conference in 272 days. It is hard to brush aside that, and this adds testimony to her cavalier attitude, if not nothing else.
As a lawyer from Yale, one would have expected her to be much more prudent, but the missteps she had chosen to take, wittingly or unwittingly, have been serving as ample evidence revealing her sloppy side. Strikingly enough, to add fuel to fire, she is still behaving like a crosspatch at times.
One can not wait for the debates.
1
"...fooled...or not paying attention" leaves out a sizable number of GOP voters who really are as terrible as Trump sounds.
8
Mr. Trump plays on people's fears, simplifying every issue into "us" and "them" and, of course, everyone knows who's "us" and "them." Today, it's immigrants, tomorrow it's people of a certain faith, the day after that?...it could be anyone or anything.
Once he approves his followers' worst instincts, embolden them to feel righteous in turning their beliefs into action, empower them by hiring them to do the Devil's dirty work, and develop in them a taste for the red meat he's going to be throwing them...they will be more than happy to go after any new targets, whomever they may be.
Once people had to leave Germany...it looks like people may have to get ready to leave America...the country created by immigration, defeated by immigration and turned into a wasteland devoid of humanity.
Once he approves his followers' worst instincts, embolden them to feel righteous in turning their beliefs into action, empower them by hiring them to do the Devil's dirty work, and develop in them a taste for the red meat he's going to be throwing them...they will be more than happy to go after any new targets, whomever they may be.
Once people had to leave Germany...it looks like people may have to get ready to leave America...the country created by immigration, defeated by immigration and turned into a wasteland devoid of humanity.
10
Trump’s off-the-cuff idea of expelling 11 million undocumented aliens ignores simple arithmetic:
If, every day, 1000 of these people were rounded up and dumped across a border, it would take 11,000 days to get all 11 million. That’s 30 years!
If, every day, 1000 of these people were rounded up and dumped across a border, it would take 11,000 days to get all 11 million. That’s 30 years!
9
This Trump is one more example of 'their money isn't good enough' when it comes to deportations. It's been shown, in these pages, that those 11million undocumented make a large net positive contribution to the economy and tax base.
Trump is playing with fire and the world will get burned.
Plus, in the horrible event should he win, Hillary needs to have a plan; He may be serious about his threats to jail her or deport her. Sounds crazy, I know, but that's not me, that's Trump.
Trump is playing with fire and the world will get burned.
Plus, in the horrible event should he win, Hillary needs to have a plan; He may be serious about his threats to jail her or deport her. Sounds crazy, I know, but that's not me, that's Trump.
6
The way I see it is that illegals are breaking the law. Why should these criminals be excused for this crime while all other criminals are punished for their conduct? It seems patently unjust to excuse non-citizens for breaking American law while American citizens are thrown in jail daily for breaking the law.
25
Are you in favor of the wealthy, white males who employ these immigrants being thrown into jail?
5
They are not criminals, because the have not committed a crime. Entering the country without a permit is a civil infraction!
6
All other criminals are not punished for their conduct. Only those whom it is cost-effective to hunt down or who accidentally come into contact with law enforcement are even charged, never mind punished. Besides that, what is more important - punishing people or stopping crime?
1
The Constitution tasks president to "take care that the laws be faithfully executed." Donald Trump merely proposes to enforce the existing Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act, which President Bill Clinton signed into law in 1996. This act, which passed with huge bi-partisan majorities in both houses, calls for the deportation of all unauthorized immigrants residing illegally in the United States. The editorial board alleges Donald Trump “wants to remake the country,” but he has simply put forth a plant to enforce existing immigration law. Donald Trump hasn’t asked for any changes to immigration law. It is the New York Times editorial board that wants to remake the country by awarding citizenship or legal resident status to those who sneak past the Border Patrol or overstay their visas.
8
Here's a deal that should satisfy everybody. In return for not enforcing immigration laws, which Democrats favor, the rest of us should be able to choose another sets of laws that will likewise not be enforced, but treated simply as 'pretty please' suggestions. What would be a comparable set of laws that citizens could ignore in return for illegals being permitted to ignore our laws? Perhaps income tax laws. Let's recruit suggestions , then have a national vote. Sounds win win to me. Democrats get their open borders and millions of Thirld World newcomers dependent on taxpayer support, while citizens can choose not to follow laws that inconvenience them.
9
I didn't read this editorial because as of this morning, I have sworn off reading anything more about Donald Trump. The media legitimizes what he says by covering him nonstop, and that is exactly what he wants. There's no such thing as bad publicity for him (it's free!). If anything negative comes out, he will blame it on anything or anyone but himself. The man is simply not capable of being president, and the media needs to stop talking about his "plans" and "policies." His only plan or policy is to hear himself talk, to see his image everywhere, and to be self-satisfied by the few accolades he receives from small pockets of disgruntled citizens while spewing nonsense out of both sides of his mouth.
9
If Trump and the GOP's plans to go after illegal immigrants is simply about enforcing the laws of the land, then why are they so obsessed with birthright citizenship? More specifically, they despise what they call "anchor babies," American citizens born to non-citizen parents. In 2010, Mitch McConnell opined that the 14th Amendment was in need of "review," and proceeded to spend taxpayer dollars on hearings that were nothing more than political theatre that played to fears about our nation's shifting demographics. Recently Rep. Steve King wasted more taxpayer dollars by attempting to advance a bill to end birthright citizenship. Speaking to Bill O'Reilly in 2015, Trump bizarrely promised that his presidency would use government legal resources to challenge the Amendment's "constitutionality." Think about it: Trump and the conservatives would revoke the birthright citizenship of your own children and grandchildren because they are terrified that the "wrong" kind of people could be born on American soil.
9
Deporting the 925,000+ illegal immigrants currently with active deportation orders would be challenging enough. Why wouldn't the federal government start there? They carry out judicial orders do they not?
5
How wildly embarrassing for the New York Times that it doesn't grasp the difference between race and ethnicity. And even more embarrassing it doesn't seem to grasp the slippery slope of using the words interchangeably. One, an individual cannot control. The other is cultural and completely controllable.
5
If you look at a guy and think "he's Hispanic", which we can all do fairly readily in most cases, then that isn't a controllable factor.
1
An eventual President Donald Trump can declare Martial Law and maintain it indefinitely:
Article II, Section 2, Clause 1, of the Constitution declares that "[t]he President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States." The constitutional provision does not includes a direct reference to martial law. However, the Supreme Court has interpreted to allow the declaration of martial law by the president.
He definitely has a "clear" path as Deporter in Waiting. He also has witnessed thousands and thousands of celebrations in Jersey City, NJ on 9/11. He has seen on tv of the plane that delivered the cash to Iran in exchange for the american hostages. He has declared that he will use Water Boarding as a method of interrogation. He is convinced that certain Judges cannot be objective given their heritage. He is sure that our Generals don't know what they are doing and that he does. He admires Saddam Hussein and Putin for their firm handling of their affairs in their respective countries. He has assured us that he and he alone can make America great again.
As an American citizen that had to flee the tyrant Saddam Hussein 35 years ago, I have personally witnessed this M.O.. These and many other examples of Donald Trump's behavior are all clear indicators that this person can and will declare Marshal Law as POTUS if things don't go his way.
Article II, Section 2, Clause 1, of the Constitution declares that "[t]he President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States." The constitutional provision does not includes a direct reference to martial law. However, the Supreme Court has interpreted to allow the declaration of martial law by the president.
He definitely has a "clear" path as Deporter in Waiting. He also has witnessed thousands and thousands of celebrations in Jersey City, NJ on 9/11. He has seen on tv of the plane that delivered the cash to Iran in exchange for the american hostages. He has declared that he will use Water Boarding as a method of interrogation. He is convinced that certain Judges cannot be objective given their heritage. He is sure that our Generals don't know what they are doing and that he does. He admires Saddam Hussein and Putin for their firm handling of their affairs in their respective countries. He has assured us that he and he alone can make America great again.
As an American citizen that had to flee the tyrant Saddam Hussein 35 years ago, I have personally witnessed this M.O.. These and many other examples of Donald Trump's behavior are all clear indicators that this person can and will declare Marshal Law as POTUS if things don't go his way.
7
Mides; I agree, mostly. However, if he were to declare martial law, the Pentagon would oust him, and thus he's have completed our journey to military dictatorship.
1
Did the citizenry where you came from also have over 300 million guns?
He said any crime. Since he calls the undocumented immigrants "illegal" that implies the crime of crossing the border. Therefore "all" are criminals and subject to being deported.
4
Lynn: not sure if you agree with Trump. However, maybe you have the same aversion to accuracy and precision in language as he does. Illegal does not mean criminal.
2
Donald Trump is proposing that we enforce our existing immigration laws, which presently includes the deportation of illegal aliens and to build a wall along our southern border to discourage or significantly reduce illegal immigration. Why is that so objectionable to the NYT and the majority of it readers? If the present immigration laws are so objectionable and need to be revised they should to be revised by Congress. Until then we should abide by the laws that Congress has approved. People seem to be hung up on the cost of deportation. That should not be an issue if done correctly. We don't have to hunt down non criminals who are here illegally, but when we run across them in various places we can then deal with them. Once we have sealed off our borders and the illegal population stabilizes we can take our time and resolve the deportation issue humanly.
14
I understand that The New York Times and every other media operation has to report on this piece of filth because luckily for Hillary Clinton, he is the nominee of the Grand Old Tea Party. However, because he represents to me what is worst about America, I have decided to forgo reading or listening to anything that reports on him. No Times, no NPR, no PBS, no CNN, and on and on. I'll be back after the election.
2
As is obvious to most of us, Trump's strategy is to rely on “culpritism”, to find someone or some group to blame for his supporters' miseries. We all do it: if I can't find something, it's because my wife misplaced it. Authoritarian politicos, of course, have often used such strategy to rile up the masses. Jews and gypsies have been neglected by Trump's campaign, his culprits are immigrants; they are stealing our jobs: one can hardly find a lawn mowing or onion picking career opportunity any more. Trump uses the issue to keep voters from focusing on the most important issues: the environment, the wealth gap, a sensible response to terrorism, and others. And, of course, the press is his biggest dupe, magnifying his message loud and clear.
5
There are reports of clowns lurking on the presidential campaign trail luring idiots with promises of jobs.
4
So Trump the bigot is going to spend billions of dollars to hunt down gardeners and housekeepers while Russian tanks roll over Ukraine and ISIS blows up the world. Sorry I think I will stick with someone who is command of reality like Secretary Hillary Rodham Clinton.
10
so when will you be enlisting to fight Russia?
2
I'm not a Trump supporter but saw the speech and agreed with all of the policy proposals therein as a sensible approach to capturing illegal immigrants. Unlike the Times, I don't confuse legal and illegal, and am not blind to the simple fact that the hotel maid here illegally has broken the law and should go home.
14
Great, so you want Trump to deport the people who work for him and you think he should be properly penalized for hiring people who are here illegally?
1
Donald Trump may want to "deport" Hilary Clinton, but I hope there are a lot more of us who really, really want to "deport" Trump and will do so at the ballot box in November. For all the harm he has done all his life and would continue to do as POTUS, this misogynist, xenophobic, ignorant creep should be given such a thrashing at the polls that he will retreat Howard Hughs-like to the top floor of a hermetically sealed Trump Tower never to be seen or heard of again. Miracles happen.
9
Undocumented workers wouldn't be here if there was no work for them.
Trump made a statement that Blacks & Latinos were suffering because the illegals were taking all their jobs. Really? I don't want to do day labor construction, pick grapes, do restaurant work or take any other crummy job any more than you do. Both my African American grandmothers were maids most of their working lives. I don't have the education that one of them did, but I've never had to do domestic service and I've been employed, on the books, since the late 70s.
If you actually manage to get ride of these people nobody is going to rush to take their jobs. If eventually they do, the goods/services produced will cost a lot more because no American is going to work for the pay, in illegal conditions, that many undocumented workers accept.
FYI, same thing will happen if you bring back production to the USA or start trade wars. That $700 iPhone is going to cost $7,000 if you pay the workers here a livable wage with benefits. Not that you're know for doing either.
Trump made a statement that Blacks & Latinos were suffering because the illegals were taking all their jobs. Really? I don't want to do day labor construction, pick grapes, do restaurant work or take any other crummy job any more than you do. Both my African American grandmothers were maids most of their working lives. I don't have the education that one of them did, but I've never had to do domestic service and I've been employed, on the books, since the late 70s.
If you actually manage to get ride of these people nobody is going to rush to take their jobs. If eventually they do, the goods/services produced will cost a lot more because no American is going to work for the pay, in illegal conditions, that many undocumented workers accept.
FYI, same thing will happen if you bring back production to the USA or start trade wars. That $700 iPhone is going to cost $7,000 if you pay the workers here a livable wage with benefits. Not that you're know for doing either.
9
Good point. Why aren't more people speaking up about the fact that the right wing solution is to shift that underpaid, back breaking work onto other people of color? I've yet to see a right winger step up and say they would like to clean motel rooms or wash dishes.
1
Mr. Trump - I didn't realize that the Statue of Liberty has an expiration date on it. Did your parents come here legally? I would like an answer.
7
We're still waiting for his wife to explain her entry into this country. Trump said she would do it personally, it hasn't happened.
Trump says he wants to only admit people with valuable skills into our country. I'd like an explanation of just how valuable the skill of nude modelling is and why we need to import nude models to the U.S.
Trump says he wants to only admit people with valuable skills into our country. I'd like an explanation of just how valuable the skill of nude modelling is and why we need to import nude models to the U.S.
4
After what has looked like a TERRIBLE week for Hillary Clinton and a great week for Donald Trump, Don The Con has blown it yet again. Tracking the various means by which Nate Silver's 538 site evaluates polls, has seen the fairly sharp decline in HRC's fortunes and the rise in The Donald's abruptly reverse. The gap he has been steadily closing since the middle of August turned again with his bumbling ham-handed handling of both his Mexican visit and his "serious immigration policy" speech, so badly that even the hard-core blinders-on Republican Hispanics have resigned from his campaign in disgust.
Trump's "Statesmanlike" meeting with Pres. Nieto (a colossal blunder on Nieto's part, inviting both Trump and Clinton to Mexico) fell apart when Trump claimed they didn't talk about Mexico paying for his Wall and Nieto insisting he said "No Way!" making Trump look like the cowardly bully he is.
Combine that with his imbecilic hate-filled rant that cannot be implemented and sounded more Hitlerian than serious policy, the polls have turned back on him and he's going down again.
Contrary to what the pundits say, if this is how the polls look at the end of September, stick a fork in Trump--he's done. Romney was in better shape at the end of September 2012 than Trump is in now and he was STILL done then.
Trump's "Statesmanlike" meeting with Pres. Nieto (a colossal blunder on Nieto's part, inviting both Trump and Clinton to Mexico) fell apart when Trump claimed they didn't talk about Mexico paying for his Wall and Nieto insisting he said "No Way!" making Trump look like the cowardly bully he is.
Combine that with his imbecilic hate-filled rant that cannot be implemented and sounded more Hitlerian than serious policy, the polls have turned back on him and he's going down again.
Contrary to what the pundits say, if this is how the polls look at the end of September, stick a fork in Trump--he's done. Romney was in better shape at the end of September 2012 than Trump is in now and he was STILL done then.
4
Like Prohibition - making criminals out of regular people. Probably working to the advantage of organized crime ...
People can already blackmail regular workers and their families by threatening to report them to ICE. This will make that worse.
People can already blackmail regular workers and their families by threatening to report them to ICE. This will make that worse.
8
White supremacist leaders and the KKK are strongly supportive of Trump and they especially liked his hate-filled, ranting speech in Phoenix. That should tell everyone exactly what they need to know.
Although it is long past time for bi-partisan legislation on sensible immigration reform, as with most things regarding Trump, he gets all the facts wrong and proposes "solutions" to problems that would make things worse.
First, more people are returning to Mexico than entering the U.S. illegally from Mexico. Second, immigrants (legal or illegal) are far less likely to commit crimes than native born Americans. Third, illegal immigrants are doing menial jobs that for the most part Americans won't or can't afford to do for such a low wage.
So the facts: we are not being inundated with illegal immigration, there is zero evidence for a crime wave, and they are not taking jobs from citizens. The Obama administration is already aggressively and legally deporting illegal immigrants who break the law.
Trump's wall would be incredibly expensive and ineffective. People find ways around any obstacle. The deportation force seems like something out of an authoritarian regime: expensive, inhumane, largely unaccountable, & perhaps illegal. He will worsen our economy by removing these workers.
We need to enhance border control & continue to deport serious law breakers, but find ways to legalize families with children who contribute to our society and have been here sometimes for generations.
Although it is long past time for bi-partisan legislation on sensible immigration reform, as with most things regarding Trump, he gets all the facts wrong and proposes "solutions" to problems that would make things worse.
First, more people are returning to Mexico than entering the U.S. illegally from Mexico. Second, immigrants (legal or illegal) are far less likely to commit crimes than native born Americans. Third, illegal immigrants are doing menial jobs that for the most part Americans won't or can't afford to do for such a low wage.
So the facts: we are not being inundated with illegal immigration, there is zero evidence for a crime wave, and they are not taking jobs from citizens. The Obama administration is already aggressively and legally deporting illegal immigrants who break the law.
Trump's wall would be incredibly expensive and ineffective. People find ways around any obstacle. The deportation force seems like something out of an authoritarian regime: expensive, inhumane, largely unaccountable, & perhaps illegal. He will worsen our economy by removing these workers.
We need to enhance border control & continue to deport serious law breakers, but find ways to legalize families with children who contribute to our society and have been here sometimes for generations.
8
How is it that any rationale person can think that a child born in America to an illegal immigrant should be legal? That creates the most perverse incentive... to dash across the border just in time to have the baby here, or to come here and get pregnant in hopes of having the baby here.... oh guess what, now you can't or shouldn't kick ME out (the illegal) because I have citizen children! Truly nuts, and yet many Americans seem to either not recognize that or think it somehow makes sense. That's a crazy reward for breaking the law. Also, this nonsense that if an illegal holds down a job and pays taxes, the fact that they are illegal should be ignored. Translating that to me: Hey, if I work and pay taxes, I guess it must be okay for me to steal the occasional car, too.
7
"the “impenetrable” wall, an applause line for an engineering fiction"
The Israelis have some very effective walls. They certainly have the best walls that can be engineered.
Then again, they shoot people who try to cross them. They are effective because they are not JUST walls.
So will Trump shoot them? If not, it won't work like the Israeli walls, even with the very best engineering.
Those hotel mails and landscapers are holding jobs Trump means for our unemployed. That might require higher wages and better conditions to recruit workers, but there are plenty of people unemployed out there, even if they can't be treated as badly as illegal immigrants are treated.
I don't want to see a wall manned and enforced in the Israeli way. I don't want to see those now here deported on such a scale. But we need to talk about what it really means to do what Trump says, rather than just say "impossible."
The Israelis have some very effective walls. They certainly have the best walls that can be engineered.
Then again, they shoot people who try to cross them. They are effective because they are not JUST walls.
So will Trump shoot them? If not, it won't work like the Israeli walls, even with the very best engineering.
Those hotel mails and landscapers are holding jobs Trump means for our unemployed. That might require higher wages and better conditions to recruit workers, but there are plenty of people unemployed out there, even if they can't be treated as badly as illegal immigrants are treated.
I don't want to see a wall manned and enforced in the Israeli way. I don't want to see those now here deported on such a scale. But we need to talk about what it really means to do what Trump says, rather than just say "impossible."
3
The problem with divisive politics is the need to boil everything down to a question of good and evil. Trump appeals to many Americans not because they are "dumb, ignorant hicks" but because he portrays issues as being simple. It costs energy to think with nuance - we liberals demonstrate that when demonizing Trump supporters.
Maybe that's why Trump doesn't want them to think about what to do with the children of undocumented immigrants who were brought here against their will. Maybe that's why he doesn't acknowledge that people come here because they're being hired by (law-breaking!) Americans. But if that's all it takes for the American people to permit his dangerous proposals, then I am quite frightened for our country and our species.
Maybe that's why Trump doesn't want them to think about what to do with the children of undocumented immigrants who were brought here against their will. Maybe that's why he doesn't acknowledge that people come here because they're being hired by (law-breaking!) Americans. But if that's all it takes for the American people to permit his dangerous proposals, then I am quite frightened for our country and our species.
62
The children of illegal aliens who came with their parents illegally to the US are welcome to return home with their parents, which is a humane solution which keeps families together.
4
ebmem: strange use and redefinition of the word "welcome."
2
And then there are the children born here who, under the Constitution, are citizens. We can't legally expel citizens, so do we open up orphanages to take care of them? Do we give them passports so they can come back as adults?
1
Although Trump's views on deportation of people who are here illegally seems extreme and it is extreme. Of course with him he does change his stance frequently. This is his take on people who came into the US and did not follow immigration laws of this country. We say we are a country of laws and the law must be obeyed. With that in mind, the Congress and the President must rewrite the law to modernize our immigration laws and policies. Sorry Mr. President but you do not have that authority on your own. The Constitution guarantees the separation of powers for good reason. If a President usurps that power and makes his own decrees and laws no matter if his or hers intentions are good, then this country sinks into an authoritative government. Congress passes new laws and the President approves that is way our government should work. If the Congress and the President cannot agree then the people have a right to replace them in the next elections. I guess civics or political science is not taught in our schools anymore. Who is to say Trump is wrong? The voters. The editors can have an opinion, of course, but that is all it is, an opinion but not the truth or law. By the way, what President has deported more people than any other President? President Obama.
Trump is proposing to deport anyone who does not agree with the ideology of our country - free speech, no established religion, no religious tests (you know the stuff in the Constitution).
Since he himself does not seem to pass this test, he needs to be deported!
Since he himself does not seem to pass this test, he needs to be deported!
3
There seems to be a deliberate attempt in this article to conflate legal and illegal immigrants. Is it the wish of the NYT editorial board to grant permanent residency and citizenship to anybody who manages to reach the United States unless he/she commits violent crimes like rape or murder ? If so, they should come clean and advocate open borders. May be the millions of people waiting patiently all over world trying to get the coveted green card legally, should instead go to Mexico and cross the border illegally.
12
Undocumented aliens naturally will turn to crime more often than legal aliens. Similar to impoverished legal Americans, undocumented aliens struggle to survive. We know that crime is more prevalent among the impoverished.
What is the solution? Amnesty is unfair to those who came here legally, and encourages further illegal immigration. The logical solution is deportation. Though not all illegals are criminals, if we continue to allow unfettered access to our borders, there will be more crime.
What is the solution? Amnesty is unfair to those who came here legally, and encourages further illegal immigration. The logical solution is deportation. Though not all illegals are criminals, if we continue to allow unfettered access to our borders, there will be more crime.
7
I'm not an immigrant, nor do I look like one. Why then am I still so frightened by the prospect of a Trump presidency?
12
Do you have children? I too am not an immigrant nor do I look like one but I can confidently state that my children are why I am so afraid
1
Because Republicans always need a scapegoat and you could be next. I remember watching Walker whip people into a frenzy of hatred at teachers and first responders. Cruz likes to keep company with people who advocate killing gay people. Kasich spoke with contempt towards mothers who work outside the home...... Unless you are white and wealthy, someone in the Republican party will eventually get around to targeting you.
3
I'm frightened of a Trump presidency for a much bigger reason than his nonsense about immigration, or his racism, sexism, ignorance, and all those other smaller concerns. The big thing to me is that I'm certain he would get us into a nuclear war and destroy civilization and most, if not all, of humanity.
Trump would bring about the end of the world, that's the main issue for me.
Trump would bring about the end of the world, that's the main issue for me.
2
...what happened to the "melting pot" that was the hope of America...wasn't Trump's father or grandfather an immigrant?
There is not a problem if Congress could actually perform their job, to write and finance a law, to realistically address the American lives of "illegal" immigrants.
I am ashamed of how selfish and hostile we have become.
There is not a problem if Congress could actually perform their job, to write and finance a law, to realistically address the American lives of "illegal" immigrants.
I am ashamed of how selfish and hostile we have become.
5
"...what happened to the "melting pot" that was the hope of America..."
Someone insisted that we print everything in two languages. Someone else's Dream was twisted to create set-asides for certain people based not on the content of their character. Still someone else displaced American citizens with under-skilled workers, requiring the Americans to train their foreign replacements before collecting unemployment.
Someone insisted that we print everything in two languages. Someone else's Dream was twisted to create set-asides for certain people based not on the content of their character. Still someone else displaced American citizens with under-skilled workers, requiring the Americans to train their foreign replacements before collecting unemployment.
6
Yes!!!!
Trump thinks he's on TV and can rewrite the script. It doesn't work that way.
Trump has no plan. His "plan" changes depending on who he's talking to. If he wants to woo Hispanics he's "softening". If he's talking to hardcore supporters he's about building the wall. Trump has no plan. He just wants to get votes.
What Trump proposes is unrealistic and expensive. If we try to figure out his "plan" let's guess he wants to build a wall that stretches 2,000 miles from the Gulf of Mexico to Baja.
This project would cost at minimum $10 billion which is more than the entire budget of Customs and Border Patrol. This does not include staffing which could easily cost another $10 billion per year.
And how is Trump going to staff the Wall? How will Trump gather his "deportation force"? Hire thousands of new Border Patrol agents? Call out the National Guard? Not only would this be cost prohibitive but would also turn the entire US Mexico border into a police state. I'm sure that's not what border States like Texas and Arizona want. Finally how will Trump apprehend the bad guys? Send troops to knock on doors in the middle of the night? Germany tried that in the 1930's when another populist demagogue who hated foreigners was elected. That didn't work out too well for Germany and the world. That election mistake resulted in WW II. We sure don't want another tragic mistake like that to happen.
Trump has no plan. His "plan" changes depending on who he's talking to. If he wants to woo Hispanics he's "softening". If he's talking to hardcore supporters he's about building the wall. Trump has no plan. He just wants to get votes.
What Trump proposes is unrealistic and expensive. If we try to figure out his "plan" let's guess he wants to build a wall that stretches 2,000 miles from the Gulf of Mexico to Baja.
This project would cost at minimum $10 billion which is more than the entire budget of Customs and Border Patrol. This does not include staffing which could easily cost another $10 billion per year.
And how is Trump going to staff the Wall? How will Trump gather his "deportation force"? Hire thousands of new Border Patrol agents? Call out the National Guard? Not only would this be cost prohibitive but would also turn the entire US Mexico border into a police state. I'm sure that's not what border States like Texas and Arizona want. Finally how will Trump apprehend the bad guys? Send troops to knock on doors in the middle of the night? Germany tried that in the 1930's when another populist demagogue who hated foreigners was elected. That didn't work out too well for Germany and the world. That election mistake resulted in WW II. We sure don't want another tragic mistake like that to happen.
4
• If you saw Mr. Trump’s speech, and you care about the country and values of tolerance and human rights and weren’t disgusted, you were either fooled, or not paying attention.
I'm going to press the Canadian government to build an “impenetrable” wall along our border with the U.S. to keep those who "weren’t disgusted,...were fooled, or not paying attention" from entering our country and infecting us with their malaise.
PS: Canada welcomes immigrants and refugees, EVEN Mexicans and Syrians!
“America..., just a nation of two hundred million used car salesmen with all the money we need to buy guns and no qualms about killing anybody else in the world who tries to make us uncomfortable.”
~ HUNTER S. THOMPSON (1937 – 2005) U.S. journalist and author.
I'm going to press the Canadian government to build an “impenetrable” wall along our border with the U.S. to keep those who "weren’t disgusted,...were fooled, or not paying attention" from entering our country and infecting us with their malaise.
PS: Canada welcomes immigrants and refugees, EVEN Mexicans and Syrians!
“America..., just a nation of two hundred million used car salesmen with all the money we need to buy guns and no qualms about killing anybody else in the world who tries to make us uncomfortable.”
~ HUNTER S. THOMPSON (1937 – 2005) U.S. journalist and author.
6
Trump's plan enforces EXISTING laws? Why is this not acceptable? These people are here illegally! What about all those people who followed the rules? Why can't we make this work? I just think people should follow the law. That's all.
13
Trump has accomplished the not so difficult and ugly task of unmasking the repugnant racism still alive in a vast sector of the fringe, uneducated US. The election of the first African American president did not diminish the ferocity of this scourge. From the pulpit of FOK News racism was elevated to a new height that permeating the Senate and House, where the GOP swore to make Obama one-term president. They twice lost miserably, but these failures did not stop them in further trying to prevent any positive action the president wanted to take, even closing the government.
Not one GOP legislator has denounced Trump’s racist doctrine because they fully agree with him. They have even tried to prevent minorities from voting, knowing full well that the SCOTUS would affirm their repugnant position. But the timely death of Scalia, who represented the most extreme right, has thrown the horde in disarray for the rubber-stamping right-wing majority no longer exists (they are in judicial limbo).
They, GOP and SCOTUS, perceive that Hillary Clinton will be elected POTUS. That means the new president will be in a position to nominate the right-wing’s most feared public servants: progressive, young judges to the Supreme Court. They also perceive that the days of yore of a mythical white nation are gone. That is the reason the rural, uneducated fringe and the KKK, and David Duke, are fully supporting Trump, although they acknowledge it would be futile. Sic transit Gloria Mundi!
Not one GOP legislator has denounced Trump’s racist doctrine because they fully agree with him. They have even tried to prevent minorities from voting, knowing full well that the SCOTUS would affirm their repugnant position. But the timely death of Scalia, who represented the most extreme right, has thrown the horde in disarray for the rubber-stamping right-wing majority no longer exists (they are in judicial limbo).
They, GOP and SCOTUS, perceive that Hillary Clinton will be elected POTUS. That means the new president will be in a position to nominate the right-wing’s most feared public servants: progressive, young judges to the Supreme Court. They also perceive that the days of yore of a mythical white nation are gone. That is the reason the rural, uneducated fringe and the KKK, and David Duke, are fully supporting Trump, although they acknowledge it would be futile. Sic transit Gloria Mundi!
3
A lot of Americans find it seriously hard to understand much less accept the NYT's position on illegals. Apart from this PC notion of calling them "undocumented workers", the argument that we should simply forget that while millions of people obeyed our laws and patiently stood in line, more millions (11-30 million of them, not likely as low as 11 million) chose to jump that line as if a life here is some "right" irrespective of laws that congresses passed and presidents signed ... is on its face ridiculous.
So, deporting these hosts is unreasonable because Trump wouldn't have the resources to find them and process them? Probably, but don't assume that Americans don't understand this. It's like Mrs. Clinton's promises --to "disappear" lead paint "everywhere", to free college and pre-school, to lambaste a Wall Street community that basically has PAID for her candidacy, to a doubling-down on an ObamaCare that clearly isn't working, a fact that everyone but liberals acknowledge. It just goes on and on, and the promises basically roll off the backs of voters, just like Trump's promise to deport 11-30 million illegals.
In a Trump presidency, were that to happen, the solution would be arrived at by compromise. But as far as I'm concerned, a path to eventual citizenship is acceptable so long as we first assure that the spigot at our border is shut reliably. While Trump most likely could do that, there isn't a chance that Mrs. Clinton will even try.
So, deporting these hosts is unreasonable because Trump wouldn't have the resources to find them and process them? Probably, but don't assume that Americans don't understand this. It's like Mrs. Clinton's promises --to "disappear" lead paint "everywhere", to free college and pre-school, to lambaste a Wall Street community that basically has PAID for her candidacy, to a doubling-down on an ObamaCare that clearly isn't working, a fact that everyone but liberals acknowledge. It just goes on and on, and the promises basically roll off the backs of voters, just like Trump's promise to deport 11-30 million illegals.
In a Trump presidency, were that to happen, the solution would be arrived at by compromise. But as far as I'm concerned, a path to eventual citizenship is acceptable so long as we first assure that the spigot at our border is shut reliably. While Trump most likely could do that, there isn't a chance that Mrs. Clinton will even try.
6
While the undocumented in America don't pay federal taxes, they're still consumers. They buy food, clothes, furniture, phones and numerous other goods along with paying state and local sales tax on those purchases. The effect on GDP if 11 million consumers are removed from our economy? It's called a contraction and it's not good.
103
Carter:
Great idea.
I can stop paying my taxes, since I'm still a consumer. In fact, if I don't have to pay taxes, I'll consume even more...and do my part to keep the economy growing.
I like it already!
Great idea.
I can stop paying my taxes, since I'm still a consumer. In fact, if I don't have to pay taxes, I'll consume even more...and do my part to keep the economy growing.
I like it already!
4
Economic benefits based on illegal activities is hardly beneficial to our nation or any other.
3
If the undocumented don't pay taxes it is because their employer is not withholding payroll taxes as they are obligated to do - more than likely they are deducting for taxes and pocketing the money.
For those that do withhold payroll taxes for undocumented workers with "fake" Social Security numbers, the government keeps all the withheld amount since the undocumented are unlikely to file a tax return to get a tax refund.
Indeed, some are paying into the social security system and will never benefit from it.
For those that do withhold payroll taxes for undocumented workers with "fake" Social Security numbers, the government keeps all the withheld amount since the undocumented are unlikely to file a tax return to get a tax refund.
Indeed, some are paying into the social security system and will never benefit from it.
3
Let's see:
Option 1: Immediately deport criminal illegal aliens as soon as their jail term is up.
Option 2: Allow criminal illegal aliens to just roam free, and perhaps setup shop in a sanctuary city, as soon as their jail term is up.
How will the country answer?
Option 1: Immediately deport criminal illegal aliens as soon as their jail term is up.
Option 2: Allow criminal illegal aliens to just roam free, and perhaps setup shop in a sanctuary city, as soon as their jail term is up.
How will the country answer?
8
Is this to say that Trump will deport more people than the current record holder, Barry?
1
If you watch Trump's rally performances, they are just that performances. Having done some stand-up comedy in college, when you perform, you do feed off the crowd. When a line of comedy works, you take that line even further and further---you do get a rush and that rush is addictive. Trump will never pivot because he is a performance addict. You can almost see the pain on his face when he has to act Presidential. Hopefully, our citizenry sees the downside of electing a stand-up comic for the White House.
4
Trump is going to get rid of all those gangster Mexicans, like the men who worked ten-hour days putting new shingles on my roof last week.
But where is he going to get all the security and border agents he needs? And laborers to build the "beautiful" structure he says will be known as Trump Wall? I suppose he could look in the same places that he gets his models and the employees for his Mar-a-Lago resort; Russia, South Africa, Europe ...
But where is he going to get all the security and border agents he needs? And laborers to build the "beautiful" structure he says will be known as Trump Wall? I suppose he could look in the same places that he gets his models and the employees for his Mar-a-Lago resort; Russia, South Africa, Europe ...
6
A new roof, eh? Lucky you. Before illegal aliens came along, America had no roofs. We also had no produce, no babysitters, our lawns just grew and grew, etc.
5
The Editorial Board would like open borders. Nothing less will do.
The American people want the law enforced. And secure borders. And safety within our borders. Nothing less will do.
Who gets to vote?
P.S. - NYT - We already know your position. It has nothing to do with Donald Trump. Just stop it. You are falling farther and farther from relevance to this campaign and from a source of trusted news every day.
The American people want the law enforced. And secure borders. And safety within our borders. Nothing less will do.
Who gets to vote?
P.S. - NYT - We already know your position. It has nothing to do with Donald Trump. Just stop it. You are falling farther and farther from relevance to this campaign and from a source of trusted news every day.
7
Can the Editorial Board possibly give me an accurate account of what Trump actually thinks? You do not even read what he actually says and replace it with your imaginings.
Of course SOME of your doubts about him are right on the mark. But to these legitimate doubts you add a lot of fiction coming, not from reality, but from your own heads.
Not surprising, this is election year and someone said, "winning is not the 'main' thing - it is the only thing."
You Democrats should have nominated Sanders. There is no way Trump is going to look beside HIM.
But probably Hillary WILL win and hence, on her coattails, so will the Military Wall Street lobby and Saudi Arabia.
Of course SOME of your doubts about him are right on the mark. But to these legitimate doubts you add a lot of fiction coming, not from reality, but from your own heads.
Not surprising, this is election year and someone said, "winning is not the 'main' thing - it is the only thing."
You Democrats should have nominated Sanders. There is no way Trump is going to look beside HIM.
But probably Hillary WILL win and hence, on her coattails, so will the Military Wall Street lobby and Saudi Arabia.
6
If Donald were smart, he would announce policies to go after employers.
5
That would be tricky since he is one of those employers.
2
Donald is not interested in prosecuting his allies.
2
There's good news and bad news, and it's the same news: Trump will not do anything he says he will.
If you like Trump, the good news is you get to hear red-meat, rhetorical rantings that sound strong, angry, and blustery. The bad news is that you're completely deluded if you think he will actually do the things he says he'll do. They would mostly be impossible or, if not, they would be inane or destructive. In any event, he is not really a conservative, he's a celebrity hound. He won't round up millions of people and deport them; he'll hang out with the Kardashians and Mike Tyson, promote golf course, and pass a few laws that help only real estate tycoons.
If you don't like Trump, the good news is that he'll never do the nutty things he says he'll do. The bad news is, he'll undoubtedly do all kinds of other crazy stuff, like pass laws that help only real estate tycoons.
If you like Trump, the good news is you get to hear red-meat, rhetorical rantings that sound strong, angry, and blustery. The bad news is that you're completely deluded if you think he will actually do the things he says he'll do. They would mostly be impossible or, if not, they would be inane or destructive. In any event, he is not really a conservative, he's a celebrity hound. He won't round up millions of people and deport them; he'll hang out with the Kardashians and Mike Tyson, promote golf course, and pass a few laws that help only real estate tycoons.
If you don't like Trump, the good news is that he'll never do the nutty things he says he'll do. The bad news is, he'll undoubtedly do all kinds of other crazy stuff, like pass laws that help only real estate tycoons.
4
If Trump's campaign promises were fulfilled literally, we'd have to transform into a police state like North Korea in order to successfully round up 11 million.
3
Nope. Despite everyone's best efforts to hide their activities, Walmart, Target, 7-11, Home Depot, etc. can bring up a random street anywhere in America and give a fairly accurate profile of the people living there. So, rounding 'em up is pretty effortless.
2
So, who will pluck the chickens, butcher the beef, make the hotel beds? Who will take over the roofing jobs? Who will work the orchards and row crops? These are all jobs most America citizens are no longer interested in doing.
If I stay at a Trump hotel after this plan is implemented, sounds like I am going to receive lousy service!
If I stay at a Trump hotel after this plan is implemented, sounds like I am going to receive lousy service!
138
Given what we have learned about Trump during this election season, why would any American want to stay in one of his hotels or buy one of his (not-made-in-America) products?
1
Good point. Multiple economists have done studies about the economic impact of losing all this labor.
I'd love to hear right wingers scream when the price of food quadruples.
I'd love to hear right wingers scream when the price of food quadruples.
1
ouch! What a stereotype.
2
INS should raid one of Trump's hotels. Or will his employees be exempt from his immigration policies?
10
"And this applies not just to immigrants, but to everyone who could be mistaken for one."
I fit that bill as I was a legal immigrant and now a naturalized citizen. I never used to carry my "green card" with me for fear of losing it. Fortunately, nobody ever asked for "my papers" other than at the airport after a a visit abroad. I now carry a "passport card" in my wallet just in case....
Not many "immigrant-looking" people will carry their passports with them nor spend the extra money to get the passport card which is more easy to carry. So, Trump's "solutions" could be a disaster for millions of people in the country, especially if the Joe Arpaio type law enforcement becomes widely prevalent.
I well understand the need to control the nation's borders to stem the flow of illegal immigration. But Trump's solutions will create more problems than they solve. Hopefully, the Congress and the courts won't let Trump run amok, should he--perish the thought--get elected.
I fit that bill as I was a legal immigrant and now a naturalized citizen. I never used to carry my "green card" with me for fear of losing it. Fortunately, nobody ever asked for "my papers" other than at the airport after a a visit abroad. I now carry a "passport card" in my wallet just in case....
Not many "immigrant-looking" people will carry their passports with them nor spend the extra money to get the passport card which is more easy to carry. So, Trump's "solutions" could be a disaster for millions of people in the country, especially if the Joe Arpaio type law enforcement becomes widely prevalent.
I well understand the need to control the nation's borders to stem the flow of illegal immigration. But Trump's solutions will create more problems than they solve. Hopefully, the Congress and the courts won't let Trump run amok, should he--perish the thought--get elected.
7
Excellent editorial. Thank you. That speech in Phoenix was loaded with code words and threats to the fundamentals of the Republic. A more perfect Union? Not in a Trump presidency.
One interpretation of the speech is that Trump accepts the complexity of the whole issue but drizzled it with red blood for his base. To me, the worst straw in the wind was: “An ideological certification to make sure that those we are admitting to our country share our values and love our people.” Values and people? White Christian values and people! Inevitably, this test would be applied to people who live here lawfully and legally. In the Big Brother world of Trump, we’d expect deportations for simple things like parking tickets.
Apart from all the other horror, Trump again revealed his hatred of Obama with such phrases: “…there’s no brain power in our administration by our leader...” And: “if we had leaders that knew what they were doing, which we don’t.” Echoes of “show your transcripts.”
In the context of the immigration issue, he mentions the military: “And don’t forget building up our depleted military.” Another dog whistle?
Eternal vigilance.
One interpretation of the speech is that Trump accepts the complexity of the whole issue but drizzled it with red blood for his base. To me, the worst straw in the wind was: “An ideological certification to make sure that those we are admitting to our country share our values and love our people.” Values and people? White Christian values and people! Inevitably, this test would be applied to people who live here lawfully and legally. In the Big Brother world of Trump, we’d expect deportations for simple things like parking tickets.
Apart from all the other horror, Trump again revealed his hatred of Obama with such phrases: “…there’s no brain power in our administration by our leader...” And: “if we had leaders that knew what they were doing, which we don’t.” Echoes of “show your transcripts.”
In the context of the immigration issue, he mentions the military: “And don’t forget building up our depleted military.” Another dog whistle?
Eternal vigilance.
7
When wills people learn this man is an empty vessel with an insatiable need for attention (which we give him) and utters ridiculous things and makes promises that will not be kept. He has a history bereft of values and integrity, and it continues. My hope is Donald Trump's candidacy will be a great lesson in history.
5
Donald Trump's proposals for immigration may be unrealistic, but that is not a problem for him or his followers. Trump's campaign is less about his actual policies or proposals and more about his rhetoric and appeals to the mob. He has built a cult-like following that craves indoctrination with his brew of nationalism, racism and immigrant bashing. His movement draws from disaffected elements, kooks, and cranks enraged by their own insignificance and frightened by uncertainty and change. Expect him to stick around after the election.
1
Who is going to replace the hotel workers, nannies, landscape trimmers? Who is going to labor under a very hot sun to pick the crops that feed this country?
If Mr. Trump thinks for one minute that his devoted white followers are going to step up and work in his hotels for minimum wages, or mow his lawns, or do his laundry, he will have a very unpleasant surprise coming.
If Mr. Trump thinks for one minute that his devoted white followers are going to step up and work in his hotels for minimum wages, or mow his lawns, or do his laundry, he will have a very unpleasant surprise coming.
13
Landscaping. That's a national priority.
One word of warning for produce workers: robots.
One word of warning for produce workers: robots.
1
Basically, it simply sounds like Mr. Trump is planning to enforce the laws currently on the books and give the enforcement agencies the resources to accomplish their obligations.
4
So President Trump will be cutting taxes, mostly for the already well-off. At the same time, he'll be adding tens of thousands of new government jobs and more and bigger prisons and increasing our defense budget. So where will the money come from for these additions? Will our streets no longer get plowed, our toilets no longer flush, our food and water no longer be tested for safety? Maybe he can eliminate Social Security and Medicare and build a bunch of shiny new debtor prisons.
9
We don't see the problem with this.
signed, the Penobscots, Wamponoags, Pocohantas, Seminoles, Crazy Horse, Sitting Bull, Chief Joseph...
signed, the Penobscots, Wamponoags, Pocohantas, Seminoles, Crazy Horse, Sitting Bull, Chief Joseph...
7
The cost of mass deportation is prohibitive. Locating 11 million illegals and providing them deportation hearings, as required, would back up the immigration courts forever and require them to expand 10,000 fold. Trump has threatened to do this but has now promised humane treatment. The guy is known for his inconsistency. But any reference to mass deportation should be viewed as bluster. It simply is not possible.
69
Yes, of course it is bluster and it is not possible, but the hatred and racism that Trump has unleashed is horrifying and dangerous. I say unleashed because it was always there, but people have been shamed for it. Now they are on the loose, again. This needs to be taken seriously.
1
Visa programs bring technologically educated foreigners into this country to displace us more highly-paid professionals. Industry plutocrats cry they do not have enough qualified workers, but they greedily and falsely raise the bar for the job qualifications. This amoral stunt has only recently been exposed by crooked operations like Disney, but it has been going on for more than twenty years via partial off-shoring of "R & D" and technical support operations. IBM has told it's much lower-paid India workers they're "the brightest and the best".
4
Me and my wife are getting passports even though we do not plan on traveling outside of the country. We are doing this because we do plan on traveling through the southwest of the US of A later this year and do not want to be picked up by accident and deported. We will have all of are papers including birth certificates, driver licenses and passports to prove we are citizens of the US of A. If trump gets elected you all will need to get your papers too.
7
What worries me most about the possibility of a Trump victory, however remote, is the transformation of America's persona into an inward-looking island of fearful pessimism that will, in turn, be feared more by its allies than its enemies.
Donald Trump is all about anger, resentment, fear and punishment. He trades in fantasy, devoid of rational policy prescription, promising the impromisable, all in the name of "nativism" for immigrant people who are in no way native.
In short, Trump's America would be the logical extension of how the GOP has been trending for a very long time.
www.endthemadnessnow.org
Donald Trump is all about anger, resentment, fear and punishment. He trades in fantasy, devoid of rational policy prescription, promising the impromisable, all in the name of "nativism" for immigrant people who are in no way native.
In short, Trump's America would be the logical extension of how the GOP has been trending for a very long time.
www.endthemadnessnow.org
12
Trump's speech was meant for his core base (the only people I can imagine wanting to become part of his "deportation" force; who else could possibly want that job?), but he has to know that there was no possibility of it expanding on it, and more than that, he was likely going to lose support from not just the Hispanic community, but immigrants from all countries, whether they are here legally or not. Considering where he stands in the polls, he can't possibly want to win the Presidency. Perhaps Trump's biggest flaw is misunderstanding that most of our citizenry are people who value the idea of a welcoming, inclusive country.
4
I have never been a fan of politicans who yell out their speeches or crowds at political rallies who holler and chant. They always make me think that something dumb is going on.
17
It's baloney. Trump can't do these things without declaring martial law (assuming the military everyone else goes along). Even if Trump could and did do these things, they won't improve the wages and living conditions of those he is supposedly trying to help. What then?
117
Don't count on him NOT declaring martial law. His understanding of being President is predicated on a misguided conviction that the President can do anything he/she wants. He has no understanding of the Constitution, of checks and balances on power. He fits in well with the demi gods and dictators the world has suffered ( and continues to suffer under) the likes of which he admires. Chilling.
2
Those who voted for him will be even angrier. I hate to think how that anger will be expressed.
I am I am a green card holder and I can get deported if I commit a crime. I don't see why illegals wouldn't be deported if they commit any type of crime. After all they butted in line, whereas it took me a decade to get my green card. I also had to switch jobs and pay tens of thousands in fees and attorney's fees to get the right to stay and work here. If you are illegal the least you can do is respect every single last law. Every single last minute.
10
Donald Trump, doing the job Americans (presidents and Congress) won't do.
4
What nobody seems to have focused on is the question of who hires these illegal immigrants? They're taking American jobs, the anti-immigrant Republicans chant, and we'll build a colossal wall around Mexico, so are the illegals being hired by other Mexicans? No, they're hired by white folks who want cheap labor and who would prefer to employ an illegal over an American citizen. Therefore, the root of the problem is white America and its greed. Many of these employers are Republican. Willard Romney had illegals working on his New Hampshire estate as landscapers. White Americans are totally responsible for illegal immigration. If immigrants couldn't get jobs they'd probably go home.
12
I personally sat through the spectacle of Democratic Congressman Jarad Polis preening because he had managed to keep an illegal immigrant family back together by preventing an immediate deportation. This is the same congressman who jumped on the damaging austerity bandwagon and in 2012, in the middle of the recovery said "of course we have to make cuts". Instead of talking about what he was doing to improve the economic environment for American citizens, especially poorer ones, Polis was taking great pride in his efforts on behalf of a Mexican citizen. This congressman also supports the TPP. Politicians like this gave the big opening to Donald Trump and we realize it and deport them from the halls of Congress.
3
I guess the day after the election we will know how many nativists are in our country. Hopefully, not as many as Trump thinks there are. His core group isn't concerned with his unrealistic impractical and costly plans. Trumps lies don't mean anything to them as well. It will be a sad day for the world if he become POTUS.
2
The way to stop the influx of illegal immigrants is to target the people hiring them. If there were not jobs for them here, they would not come here.
14
every election has its clown the only difference this time the clown went all the way to be nominated for the presidency.
4
There were 16 other clowns in that car. Equally bad were Cruze, Huckabee, Santorum, Christie, Carson and Walker. The others not far behind.
This is what happens when someone watches too much Television.
Too many cop shows give one a sense of rampant crime.
Obviously Don Trump IS the Television man.
Too many cop shows give one a sense of rampant crime.
Obviously Don Trump IS the Television man.
7
Even if there is deportation, families need not be broken up.
If the mother and/or father of a family is deported, they can take the rest of their family with them back to their home country. In fact, isn't that what most people would want if their first priority is to keep the family intact?
Perhaps the only reason to break up the family is money. Specifically, more than 60% of households head by an illegal alien receives social benefits. This consists mostly of food subsidies for a child that is born in the U.S. If the family removes the child from the U.S., they are no longer eligible for this subsidy.
(I don't believe that non-criminal deportations will ever happen, even in the unlikely case that Trump is elected. It costs too much, is inefficient, and the optics are terrible.)
If the mother and/or father of a family is deported, they can take the rest of their family with them back to their home country. In fact, isn't that what most people would want if their first priority is to keep the family intact?
Perhaps the only reason to break up the family is money. Specifically, more than 60% of households head by an illegal alien receives social benefits. This consists mostly of food subsidies for a child that is born in the U.S. If the family removes the child from the U.S., they are no longer eligible for this subsidy.
(I don't believe that non-criminal deportations will ever happen, even in the unlikely case that Trump is elected. It costs too much, is inefficient, and the optics are terrible.)
6
Deporting American citizens! Now there's an idea!
1
Scottilla:
It appears that you did not read what I wrote.
U.S.-born children are full citizens and cannot be deported. The illegal alien parents can, however, remove their children from the U.S. in order to keep the family intact. Welfare payments to the children provide an incentive, however, for the parents not to remove the children from the U.S.
Is that clear now?
It appears that you did not read what I wrote.
U.S.-born children are full citizens and cannot be deported. The illegal alien parents can, however, remove their children from the U.S. in order to keep the family intact. Welfare payments to the children provide an incentive, however, for the parents not to remove the children from the U.S.
Is that clear now?
3
Mr. Trumps hateful rhetoric, his supporters, his inability to be consistent is not funny anymore. Equally as alarming is the amount of Christians that support him. I have struggled over the past week to understand what Bible are his supporters reading? From Genesis to Revelations, there is nothing about Mr. Trump that lines up with the Bible. While none of us are perfect, why is it acceptable to discriminate against people who are different from you and who have not committed a crime? Why is it acceptable to make fun of disabled people and incite violence by telling supporters to punch people in the face? While I don't disagree that at times media bias exists, Mr. Trump's consistent actions speak louder than any words written in an electronic or printed newspaper and louder than any talk show host. It is so painful to witness the barrage of hate in this country that has been championed by the current leader of the Republican Party. While I'm not a supporter of Mrs. Clinton, I'll vote in November, but I'm still very undecided on how I'll vote. I do know it will not be for Mr. Trump and it is not because of the media, it is because of what he continually says and does.
I'm thankful for all the Republicans who are not supporting Mr. Trump and are saddened by the ones that still do. The Lord is no respect of persons yet Mr. Trump and many of his supporters are.
Acts 10:34 KJV
"Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons"
I'm thankful for all the Republicans who are not supporting Mr. Trump and are saddened by the ones that still do. The Lord is no respect of persons yet Mr. Trump and many of his supporters are.
Acts 10:34 KJV
"Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons"
1
LLC:
As a reasonably devout Christian, I disagree with your use of a religious argument to support a public policy.
Jesus was not an earthly leader, never claiming to be a king. Moreover, he clearly delineated church and state when he said "Give to Caesar what is Caesar's..."
I used to be conflicted at church, trying to reconcile my faith with my public policy views. But the Bible set me free. It made me realize that my faith is about my personal relationship with God, not about politics here on earth.
We need greater separation of church and state...mostly to protect church from state, and not the other way around.
As a reasonably devout Christian, I disagree with your use of a religious argument to support a public policy.
Jesus was not an earthly leader, never claiming to be a king. Moreover, he clearly delineated church and state when he said "Give to Caesar what is Caesar's..."
I used to be conflicted at church, trying to reconcile my faith with my public policy views. But the Bible set me free. It made me realize that my faith is about my personal relationship with God, not about politics here on earth.
We need greater separation of church and state...mostly to protect church from state, and not the other way around.
1
It is extremely difficult to identify anything that Trump says that doesn't make one feel 'disgusted'.
7
Let's say a substantial number of Norwegians decided they wanted to enter the country and overstay their visas. Would the Times say they should be "allowed to come out of the shadows"? Should they be able to take jobs which otherwise would go to citizens?
What if huge numbers of pesky French came to Mexico, decided they were used to a little cooler climate and crossed the border heading north. Once here they decided to stay. Would the Times say they should be allowed to sign up for various forms of public assistance?
What if Germans, nostalgic for the days they speedily (and in large numbers) crossed borders decided to come here and settle in Arizona. Would the Times decry the intentions of the local constabulary as anti-European bigotry and assert the Justice Department should intervene to prevent these roving Frankfurters from being deported when they are arrested for driving on the wrong side of the road at high speed?
Crazy examples? Of course they are. But no crazier than assuming citizens of Latin American countries have all these rights just because they can come here on foot.
We are still a nation. We still have laws. Enforce them.
What if huge numbers of pesky French came to Mexico, decided they were used to a little cooler climate and crossed the border heading north. Once here they decided to stay. Would the Times say they should be allowed to sign up for various forms of public assistance?
What if Germans, nostalgic for the days they speedily (and in large numbers) crossed borders decided to come here and settle in Arizona. Would the Times decry the intentions of the local constabulary as anti-European bigotry and assert the Justice Department should intervene to prevent these roving Frankfurters from being deported when they are arrested for driving on the wrong side of the road at high speed?
Crazy examples? Of course they are. But no crazier than assuming citizens of Latin American countries have all these rights just because they can come here on foot.
We are still a nation. We still have laws. Enforce them.
11
Does this sound familar? It should. Extralegal squads sweepinng across the country, rounding up undesirablesi and "deporting" them. Just who do you thinkl will help identify these people? Already citizens are deported "by mistake." Trump's "joke' about deporting Clinton was no joke, but part of a now long pattern of winking at the jackbooted wannabes waiting in the wings.
5
Donald Trump can do no worse than the present Deporter-in- Chief Obama. Trump has a Prussian grandfather, a Scottish mother, a Czech wife and a Slovenian wife. Not all immigrants are created equal in Trump world. There are more German Americans than there are any other kind of Americans.
President Barack Hussein Obama has been the face of ugly inhumane cruel evil mass deportation of the brown Mexican mulatto, mestizo, Garifuna, Native and African mass of men, women and children seeking their American dream. While white Hispanic/Latino Cubans like Rafael Cruz, Marco Rubio and Bob Menendez are welcomed and beloved. How many Canadians are illegally in America? How many Europeans are illegally in America?
And Mr. Obama is given an undeserved and unearned black and brown "pass" from the suffering and yearning colored growing and young mass of Americans. Mr. Obama had a Kenyan biological father and an Indonesian step-father. Not all immigrants are equal in Obama world.
Mr. Obama "talks down" to both his black African American and brown Hispanic/Latino supporters in a tiresome trifling dismissive condescending paternalistic tone.
I am still waiting for the first black liberal progressive "race" man or woman born of both a black African American mother and father to become President of the United States.
"Up you mighty race. You can accomplish what you will" UNIA
President Barack Hussein Obama has been the face of ugly inhumane cruel evil mass deportation of the brown Mexican mulatto, mestizo, Garifuna, Native and African mass of men, women and children seeking their American dream. While white Hispanic/Latino Cubans like Rafael Cruz, Marco Rubio and Bob Menendez are welcomed and beloved. How many Canadians are illegally in America? How many Europeans are illegally in America?
And Mr. Obama is given an undeserved and unearned black and brown "pass" from the suffering and yearning colored growing and young mass of Americans. Mr. Obama had a Kenyan biological father and an Indonesian step-father. Not all immigrants are equal in Obama world.
Mr. Obama "talks down" to both his black African American and brown Hispanic/Latino supporters in a tiresome trifling dismissive condescending paternalistic tone.
I am still waiting for the first black liberal progressive "race" man or woman born of both a black African American mother and father to become President of the United States.
"Up you mighty race. You can accomplish what you will" UNIA
1
Remove amnesty for the tens of thousands of US employers who have illegally hired illegals, since, oh I don't know, say 1900. Gotta make sure all these felons all get got good, ya know?
Put them all in federal prison. No, on second thoughts, better still, put them to work on a chain-gang building the Trump Mexican Wall.
Start with the man who illegally hired undocumented Polish workers to build his Monstrous Tower in Manhattan.
Put them all in federal prison. No, on second thoughts, better still, put them to work on a chain-gang building the Trump Mexican Wall.
Start with the man who illegally hired undocumented Polish workers to build his Monstrous Tower in Manhattan.
7
I keep waiting for a searing moment to come when someone is able to nail Trump with "Have you no sense of decency, sir?" McCarthy was toppled by one such great moment.
Many people have already tried to do it, but we havent seen that magic kind of moment when everyone, even his current supporters, looks up and pays attention and rejects him as a monster to be treated as a monster
Many people have already tried to do it, but we havent seen that magic kind of moment when everyone, even his current supporters, looks up and pays attention and rejects him as a monster to be treated as a monster
7
The editorial is long on phony moralizing and short on honest solutions.
The elites of both parties appear to have no problem exploiting the cheap labor of illegal immigrants, and no problem with "compassionately" letting them live in the shadows of the law in perpetuity.
Trump's proposals are no more controversial than a desire to simply follow the laws on the books. Rather than opposing him with phony moralizing, his foes should be working with him to come up with a deportation scheme that can be linked to re-entry via guest worker and/or citizenship status.
Trump should be used to smash the corrupt Clinton machine, and then have his presidency limited and shaped by Congress.
The elites of both parties appear to have no problem exploiting the cheap labor of illegal immigrants, and no problem with "compassionately" letting them live in the shadows of the law in perpetuity.
Trump's proposals are no more controversial than a desire to simply follow the laws on the books. Rather than opposing him with phony moralizing, his foes should be working with him to come up with a deportation scheme that can be linked to re-entry via guest worker and/or citizenship status.
Trump should be used to smash the corrupt Clinton machine, and then have his presidency limited and shaped by Congress.
2
Trump wants us to enforce our existing immigration laws. Who would have thought? Certainly, not Clinton. Enforcing the law is not her long suit. But we know that."Its intent was hard to miss."Really Notably missing is what to do with the eleven million or whatever the real number is existing illegal aliens, other than the criminal element that would be immediately sent out. No mass deportations in evidence despite much of the post-speech media coverage.
Trump said we should deal with that population after everyone felt the border was genuinely secure. He implied that could take a while. This the humane way to do it. Seal the border tight. Get rid of the unsavory. People who come here illegally and then commit crimes are definitely unwanted. Then see what our country looks like. Everyone may feel generous at that point. But I get it, Parents who want their children to regard Hillary Clinton as a model are telling their children that party solidarity is more important than moral character.The country is and will pay a terrible price for this message.
Trump said we should deal with that population after everyone felt the border was genuinely secure. He implied that could take a while. This the humane way to do it. Seal the border tight. Get rid of the unsavory. People who come here illegally and then commit crimes are definitely unwanted. Then see what our country looks like. Everyone may feel generous at that point. But I get it, Parents who want their children to regard Hillary Clinton as a model are telling their children that party solidarity is more important than moral character.The country is and will pay a terrible price for this message.
3
Trump can enforce other laws too. For example, when you exceed the speed limit you break the law.
Let's enforce the speed limit, we need to keep Americans safe, anyone breaking this law looses their driver's license.
Let's enforce the speed limit, we need to keep Americans safe, anyone breaking this law looses their driver's license.
3
Thank you for publishing Trump's detailed policy proposals.
So, Trump is essentially planning to enforce U.S. laws more effectively. Isn't that what the executive branch is supposed to do? And if Hillary's plan is so different, then does she plan to NOT enforce U.S. laws?
So, Trump is essentially planning to enforce U.S. laws more effectively. Isn't that what the executive branch is supposed to do? And if Hillary's plan is so different, then does she plan to NOT enforce U.S. laws?
5
Here is what we have learned so far.
1. You can't have a functional representative Democracy when half the country doesn't even know how the government operates. We don't Crown you when you get into office and then you can say everyone gets Chocolate ice cream on day one or I'm going to deport 2 million people. They don't have that kind of power. Google how the U.S. government functions and then Presidential powers. It's just not how the U.S. Democracy works.
2. Most of the Media in this Country have lost all credibility. That I can actually hear on supposedly serious news networks that because Trump was in a suit and tie and standing in front of a podium reading a speech next to the President of Mexico that now makes him look Presidential or that now says he has the knowledge, background, and temperament to actually be President is laughable. If we put a chimpanzee in a suit and tie and stand him up in front of a podium next to the President of Mexico, could he now be our President? I probably would vote for the chimp at this point.
3. He could still win regardless of what the Polls say and regardless of anyone with a 1/4 of a brain knowing he is completely unqualified and dangerous to America and our Economy if he ever get elected so I really hope and pray there are enough intelligent and level headed Americans who will come out on November 8th and make sure he doesn't win.
Because here is the absolute truth. It's gonna be a Yuge Disaster if he does.
1. You can't have a functional representative Democracy when half the country doesn't even know how the government operates. We don't Crown you when you get into office and then you can say everyone gets Chocolate ice cream on day one or I'm going to deport 2 million people. They don't have that kind of power. Google how the U.S. government functions and then Presidential powers. It's just not how the U.S. Democracy works.
2. Most of the Media in this Country have lost all credibility. That I can actually hear on supposedly serious news networks that because Trump was in a suit and tie and standing in front of a podium reading a speech next to the President of Mexico that now makes him look Presidential or that now says he has the knowledge, background, and temperament to actually be President is laughable. If we put a chimpanzee in a suit and tie and stand him up in front of a podium next to the President of Mexico, could he now be our President? I probably would vote for the chimp at this point.
3. He could still win regardless of what the Polls say and regardless of anyone with a 1/4 of a brain knowing he is completely unqualified and dangerous to America and our Economy if he ever get elected so I really hope and pray there are enough intelligent and level headed Americans who will come out on November 8th and make sure he doesn't win.
Because here is the absolute truth. It's gonna be a Yuge Disaster if he does.
10
You can't make exceptions for any class of illegal immigrants. They have broken many laws. Their crime is no just crossing the border but it is also getting joba, use of false papers, identity theft, driving without a license, the list goes on.
These people are all lawbreakers to one degree or another and they must be punished for it.
Yes we can deport all those people. We have a lesson from Eisenhower when he rounded up illegal aliens and deported them. Once they saw that he was serious about arrest and deportation, thousands left on their own. I think it took Eisenhower about 2 years.
I would expect that if the illegal aliens saw that America was serious about deportation, many would, as in the Eisenhower years, leave on their own volition. The important thing is what we would be getting rid of them.
These people are all lawbreakers to one degree or another and they must be punished for it.
Yes we can deport all those people. We have a lesson from Eisenhower when he rounded up illegal aliens and deported them. Once they saw that he was serious about arrest and deportation, thousands left on their own. I think it took Eisenhower about 2 years.
I would expect that if the illegal aliens saw that America was serious about deportation, many would, as in the Eisenhower years, leave on their own volition. The important thing is what we would be getting rid of them.
7
Read B Hunter's comment above yours. What about the employers?
3
To a non-American it's fairly obvious how America should deal with the problem of illegal immigrants if it actually took the problem seriously and wanted to deal with it . Levy a massive fine on any American who hires an illegal alien with a and, for a second offence, jail him or her. And stage and well publicized raids not just on fast food joints and sweat shops but Manhattan and Beverly Hills and Houston rich people with illegal maids and gardeners ,dragging the employers down to the authorities, not the employees. American prosecutors and attorneys general like to publicize themselves with perp walks and the like. So this should appeal to them. And, boy, you would find a change pretty soon. Terrorize the Americans as much as, if not more so, than the illegals. It's so obvious. Funny that Trump doesn't mention doing anything to the employers.
21
What Europe would give to have the Mexican and Central American workers we are so fortunate to have here... working with and for us.
4
"These people" are people. They are not just objects to be tossed around for political expediency. "These people" are here at the INVITATION of business people who need workers. The truth is we need more people who are willing to work.
Of course, I may be wrong. And there are 11 million young "white people" who are just begging to take those hotel jobs, construction jobs...who are angry that they can't work in the fields. Ooops, I forgot. Georgia tried that already. The onions rotted in the fields and farmers went broke. Oh and has anyone read recently how home builders can't find workers to build homes? The trades are desperate for new employees to apprentice and develop their skills. Give "these people" a green card. We need them.
Mr. Trump, you may build a wall as high as the sky but as long as the business community is willing to employ undocumented workers, they will find a way in. It's the laws of economics trumping the laws of physics.
Of course, I may be wrong. And there are 11 million young "white people" who are just begging to take those hotel jobs, construction jobs...who are angry that they can't work in the fields. Ooops, I forgot. Georgia tried that already. The onions rotted in the fields and farmers went broke. Oh and has anyone read recently how home builders can't find workers to build homes? The trades are desperate for new employees to apprentice and develop their skills. Give "these people" a green card. We need them.
Mr. Trump, you may build a wall as high as the sky but as long as the business community is willing to employ undocumented workers, they will find a way in. It's the laws of economics trumping the laws of physics.
7
Another example of Trump reversing himself within minutes or hours of a speech. Who is the real Trump? What does he really stand for? He's brilliant at giving his audiences what they want to hear.
3
It is called Newspeak.
2
If Trumps get his way without Mexicans who is going to clean our hotels,build houses or even build his wall. Mostly these men are working under the table for big local building contractors.The local unemployed US citizen ae not going to do such hard work for such low wages. Who can clean Trump towers for such low wages in big cities. If they are deported we are probably going to have terrible labor shortage and economy may go down.Thanks
4
Let's say that happens, Chikkanayak....
And then Americans can get jobs. And wages will rise naturally according to economics. If necessary we will open the doors to immigrants to fill some jobs, all entering LEGALLY if there is a labor shortage.
And then Americans can get jobs. And wages will rise naturally according to economics. If necessary we will open the doors to immigrants to fill some jobs, all entering LEGALLY if there is a labor shortage.
3
The laws of supply and demand dictate that employers would raise wages.
2
For construction trades, wages may even climb all the way back to where they were 15 years ago, eventually.
2
I'm 72, born in Canada and adopted out of an orphanage 71 years ago. At 5 years old I was naturalized. Those are the only formal "papers" I have. I suppose that makes me legal, but as best I know from my long told origin myth ny adopted parents took a trip to Canada in late 1944, picked me out of room with 100 other babies in it and then headed back to the US. much like going to the market to buy a gallon of milk. So, am I legal ? I suppose I am, but with Trump running around pounding desks and screaming his vitriol to salivating white nativist toadies I sometimes wonder.
I will say this: earlier this year I solidified my Canadian citizenship, and if this toad wins, I am gone. Guess where I'll head ? Essentially my entire life has been formed as an American, I fought for this country as a Marine in the 60's, I was educated here, I succeeded in life here, my children are here, as are my grandchildren and great grandchildren. But I don't like what I'm seeing here these day. We are a nasty, petty, vindictive, angry and divided nation. I will not die here...I will leave because this nation will have failed its dream.
I will say this: earlier this year I solidified my Canadian citizenship, and if this toad wins, I am gone. Guess where I'll head ? Essentially my entire life has been formed as an American, I fought for this country as a Marine in the 60's, I was educated here, I succeeded in life here, my children are here, as are my grandchildren and great grandchildren. But I don't like what I'm seeing here these day. We are a nasty, petty, vindictive, angry and divided nation. I will not die here...I will leave because this nation will have failed its dream.
50
Thank you for sharing your story. I congratulate you on succeeding in life here and having the courage to speak up and say you will leave. (For exactly the right reasons.) You may be Canadian born but you seem to be more of the type of American we need. So while yes, I am with you, run and spend the rest of your life away from the mess that this nation is currently you should know that your sensibility and sensitivity is needed here and will be missed. I have young children who are fourth generation German Americans (aka Caucasian) so I personally do not have worries about deportation for myself and my family but I can empathize and share the fear of the people who may be subjected to the unimaginable things that will happen if he's elected. I also have no idea as a parent how to explain to them let alone protect them from what could potentially happen to our country. Thank you for your insightful, and thoughtful and honest input on this. Most importantly thank you SO MUCH for your service.
3
it isn't a question of either/or; many people as stated are fooled, but that is because they are not paying attention and don't really want to even try. It really is as though the mid thirties are having a rerun, sponsored by the same class of wealth which brought so much destruction to the many and so much profit to the few.
13
Mr. Trump's position on immigration has evolved into one that is now pleasantly center right, easily definable, and clearly realistic to enforce. It begins with the centerpiece if you will, to wit, The Wall. Build it. Build it high. Build it strong. If you build it, they will not come. This is simple easy and doable. Thats what Trump does. He builds stuff.Second deport and or arrest the many drug dealers murderers and rapists that come here to reside in sanctuary cities. Witness the innocent girl murdered in San Francisco by an illegal alien. Third, then take stock with what to do with those that are here illegally, have laid down roots, who are not paying taxes, and who have not committed any other crimes. Perhaps there is a means for them to stay, but never to obtain citizenship because to do so would encourage other illegal immigration. (Pavlov's dog, if you will.) This is an eminently reasonable position which will garner more Latino and Latina votes that Bush and Romney combined because it does not pander to these people. It is the soft bigotry of low expectations that insults minorities. Hold them to the same standard and they will meet expectations. The democrats would rather they be on the government nipple, cradle to grave, a permanent underclass if you will. Open borders means we have no country.
11
Steve: for most of your post, I thought it was a satirical review. From beginning to end, it is all wrong. Beginning:"Pleasantly center right?" That's the first time I've heard Obama or his policies called center-right. And end: "Open borders?" We don't have open borders. And BTW, his Hispanic supporters are deserting the sinking ship.
Guess you did not hear what Trump was saying or read this NYT editorial summary of his position. It most assuredly is not "pleasantly center right."
2
@Steve. Building such a wall is neither easy nor doable. It is a shameless lie, an absolute impossibility in every respect, and it is the height of irresponsibility for anyone who runs for public office to suggest otherwise. Take a look.
www.defenseone.com/ideas/2016/03/what-it-would-take-build-trumps-border-...
www.defenseone.com/ideas/2016/03/what-it-would-take-build-trumps-border-...
2
I have to agree with some of those posting today, our immigration system needs to change. My question to them would be...having listened and watched the man for the past year is Donald Trump really the agent of change America needs?
7
The day after Mexico refuses to pay by a deadline, Trump would sue Mexico for the cost of the wall and for the costs of deportation and then start building, reassuring everyone he would recoup the costs - and then some.
Maybe he should start by deporting his entire staff at mar a lago.
31
And Melania Trump. If he wants to keep the family together, he and their kids can go with her.
3
We are all immigrants: We are a nation of immigrants. My mother's parents immigrated from Lithuania; my father's great-grandparents immigrated from Scotland and England. The great-great-great-great-grandparents of African-Americans were captured from their communities and brought forcibly to America as slaves. After the Vietnam War, Vietnamese immigrated by the tens of thousands, as did Hmong peoples. Irish, Jews, Italians, Lebanese--the list is endless. Except for the oppressed Native American peoples, we are all immigrants. And our founding mothers and fathers were immigrants--each and every one of them.
America's exceptional democracy has thrived and grown because we, alone among the community of nations, are comprised of immigrants. And nothing in our history has disproven the fact that our health and vitality derives from being the "melting pot" of diverse peoples and cultures. It is America's defining characteristic, and the very definition of democracy.
Trumps come and go but America endures and grows.
America's exceptional democracy has thrived and grown because we, alone among the community of nations, are comprised of immigrants. And nothing in our history has disproven the fact that our health and vitality derives from being the "melting pot" of diverse peoples and cultures. It is America's defining characteristic, and the very definition of democracy.
Trumps come and go but America endures and grows.
10
"We alone..."? Canada and Australia for two?
1
Native Americans are immigrants.
America is the land of immigrants. This is the only country where we can find hyphenated Americans African-American, Asian-American,English American,Hispanic- American ,Latino-American ,European American. America is the melting pot that is what America stands for what it makes great .All Americans have ancestors from different countries. MR.Trump ancestors are from Europe Germany and Scotland . So many from Europe Germans and Scottish and Irish people migrate to America due to economic opportunity,Civil unrest,religion unrest,Poverty, War . America gave the place to these people due to humanity. People come from different regions migrate due to some reasons like war, poverty,civil unrest,religion unrest ,social strife . Nobody likes to live their own place. For Example If something happen to your house like burnt fire, or some severe problem don't you think your neighbor ,friend or relative will show a little gesture to help you ? America stands for justice for all and human society. That is what America united stands for all. I agree there should be terms and condition to enter the Country. It should be sensible and empirical approach. Mr.Trump approach is provocative and impractical. It is also the doubt for dignity of America the the way Mr.Trump give the speeches .
1
If he wants to be a true leader, I implore the narcissist to set a good example and have himself deported.
10
When you stop using euphemisms like "unauthorized" or "undocumented" I'll start reading the editorials.
8
Tolerance does not mean allowing millions of people to illegally come and to stay in the US!
13
Hayes: tolerance? Why did the biggest northward flow occur on Reagan's watch?
1
The media are Trump's "enablers."
They are junkies looking for the next video fix to satisfy their rating's craving.
This "reality TV star" has entered into a Faustian bargain and we, the American People, are the losers.
Stop covering, bloviating and in general putting his face on my display.
They are junkies looking for the next video fix to satisfy their rating's craving.
This "reality TV star" has entered into a Faustian bargain and we, the American People, are the losers.
Stop covering, bloviating and in general putting his face on my display.
20
No Paul, Trump has to be covered, every one of his horrors brought to light. Stop looking if you want to, but everyone needs to have clarity that this is what is running for President of the United States of America representing the GOPTP in its finest hour.
1
"Corrupt local police officers will pick up anyone they want, knowing Mr. Trump’s agents will swiftly take suspects off their hands"
That makes me think of the way a number of innocent people were swept into Guantanamo at the start of the Afghanistan war.
That makes me think of the way a number of innocent people were swept into Guantanamo at the start of the Afghanistan war.
15
I thought the GOP Yahoos were against big government.
33
They're also supposed to be against higher taxes. The money to PAY for all this has to come from somewhere, and it won't be Mexico (no matter what Trump says or his minions believe).
1
Except when it suits them. E.g., this response to immigration, to control women's bodies, etc.
2
If Trump has has way, we will deport 2 million immigrants and many of the rest will flee for fear of having their families shattered. As a result, many jobs currently filled by young, strong workers will go wanting. Unfortunately, the angry older white men who are backing Trump are not fit to fill those jobs and the younger high school and college graduates are not interested in them. The result? Economic upheaval - and that's bad for "conservative" business.
20
Have you looked at the unemployment rate for young people in this country ? At some point they will take those jobs because they need them or because the wages have gone up enough to attract them. Capitalism will provide the kind of redistribution of wealth the Democratic Socialists are looking for. At a certain point your "interests" have to conform to your needs.
Catholic and Conservative - I hope you'll be willing to subsidize those young people because those jobs don't come with benefits like health care and they won't pay enough for people to contribute much in taxes or buy goods and services to support their local economies.
Personally I'd rather live around 100 hard working Pedros and Marias who have English as a second language than 2 Trump supporters with all their self-righteous "patriotism," bigotry, xenophobia, and "love" of America.
371
When I see two or three men of Mexican descent (or Mexican nationals for that matter) in a pickup truck I am pretty sure they are going to find some work to do. Maybe they are cleaning up your alley or mowing your lawn or roofing your house. Maybe they are collecting scrap metal from the alleys, providing the service of cleaning up your city.
When I see two or three of T rump's supporters in a pick-em-up I am pretty sure they are looking for some body of color to beat up.
When I see two or three of T rump's supporters in a pick-em-up I am pretty sure they are looking for some body of color to beat up.
2
Illegal immigration is Trump waving a red flag to rouse the mob. He found his scapegoat for everyone who is unhappy about something; their job, their marriage, their height. The issue is the man not illegal immigration. Trump is crazy. Unresolved childhood issues have damaged his soul.
Obama has quietly enforced our immigration laws, deporting more illegals than his predecessors. Interestingly, more Mexicans now go back to Mexico than enter the US. Trump should join them.
Obama has quietly enforced our immigration laws, deporting more illegals than his predecessors. Interestingly, more Mexicans now go back to Mexico than enter the US. Trump should join them.
382
No, Trump is the response to decades of turning a blind eye to illegal immigration.
8
I prefer enforcement of our immigration laws. Let's not stop.
4
Please, send dumb Donald to Mexico!
Asocials and the work-shy beware. But hey, the trains will run on time.
The good part is that it'll never happen.
The good part is that it'll never happen.
7
Rather funny that the article mentions hotel maids. Trump's Irish immigrant mother, legal immigrant mind you, was working as a housemaid when she met Trump's father. You see, it can be done. We can have legal immigrants and still have maids and landscapers. You've just gotta believe.
4
Years ago the world cheered when a republican president told the Soviet Union to "knock down the wall". It was an important turning point in recent history.
Now a republican presidential candidate is proudly claiming he will build a wall the block migrants, just like those who made the United States, beginning with the Pilgrim Fathers centuries ago.
What happened?
Now a republican presidential candidate is proudly claiming he will build a wall the block migrants, just like those who made the United States, beginning with the Pilgrim Fathers centuries ago.
What happened?
329
The Republican Party and their policies of annilization happened. Look how well they made America work during the past eight years.
The wall in Berlin was erected by the East German government to keept is citizens from fleeing.
Trump's "wall" would be built to slow the flow of foreign nationals crossing into our country illegally. Those illegal aliens take jobs from our young citizens and drive down the wages down of the young citizens that have jobs. Our young Black citizens have the highest unemployment rate. Yet the Democrats keep disadvantaging them by sheltering illegal aliens and by incentivizing illegal immigration. And all because they don't want to alienate any Latino voters.
Trump's "wall" would be built to slow the flow of foreign nationals crossing into our country illegally. Those illegal aliens take jobs from our young citizens and drive down the wages down of the young citizens that have jobs. Our young Black citizens have the highest unemployment rate. Yet the Democrats keep disadvantaging them by sheltering illegal aliens and by incentivizing illegal immigration. And all because they don't want to alienate any Latino voters.
2
The republicans found something they hope will get them in power.
Trumpy is SO FUNNY my cheeks are hurting.
This guy has been studying Steven Wright.
I can't wait for his elections are rigged routine.
It's an absolute scream.
Who's on first, who's on first?
Is Billary on first?
No, Billary's on 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.
But no one likes her, no one trusts her, how did she get to 1600?
Rigged I tell ya, rigged.
Oh, you're on first.
He's going to win this there is NO DOUBT.
Trumpy's going to WIN the runner up to the presidential elections.
What a winner.
This guy has been studying Steven Wright.
I can't wait for his elections are rigged routine.
It's an absolute scream.
Who's on first, who's on first?
Is Billary on first?
No, Billary's on 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.
But no one likes her, no one trusts her, how did she get to 1600?
Rigged I tell ya, rigged.
Oh, you're on first.
He's going to win this there is NO DOUBT.
Trumpy's going to WIN the runner up to the presidential elections.
What a winner.
3
Trump promises, “We’re going to triple the number of ICE [Immigration and Customs Enforcement] deportation officers. Within ICE, I am going to create a new special deportation task force focused on identifying and quickly removing the most dangerous criminal illegal immigrants. ... We’re also going to hire 5,000 more Border Patrol agents.”
This would mean a force of about 160,000 that’s 100,000 more than we have now. Today’s budget is over 19.5 billion dollars Trumps would grow to over 52billion dollars. Unless the republicans who have signed the no tax increase pledge are all defeated or they turn out to be the sniveling lying cowards most believe they are, Trumps promise is to paraphrase Rick “the stuff fertilizer is made of”.
This would mean a force of about 160,000 that’s 100,000 more than we have now. Today’s budget is over 19.5 billion dollars Trumps would grow to over 52billion dollars. Unless the republicans who have signed the no tax increase pledge are all defeated or they turn out to be the sniveling lying cowards most believe they are, Trumps promise is to paraphrase Rick “the stuff fertilizer is made of”.
20
according to the Washington post... The Obama administration has deported FAR more illegals (with far fewer returns) than any previous president. Ever.
Where's the outrage over this hope and change?
Where's the outrage over this hope and change?
5
you'll find that in the stance Clinton and Sanders have taken in their positions on deportation, it is the standard democratic position. Obama in his naiveté believed that republicans were first decent Americans, he found out that he was wrong that the GOP would rather destroy lives than advance the ideals our nation was founded on. His effort to show good faith moving convicted felons out of the Us would bring the republicans on board. That the flag pin wearing faux patriots put party ahead of country is why we are in Trumplandia today
2
I believe Mr. Trump is planning to have the people he is deporting pay the additional 32.5 billion...
Trump, with his Rethuglican "courtesans", has unleashed the "dogs of hell" and regardless of the election's outcome will be a blight on this country for decades. There is a small sliver of light; this may help start the dialogue about slavery and racial inequality over 150 years late.
15
If Trump wins, make sure you carry your birth certificate, ID, and all other papers at all times, especially if you don't look "American."
355
Indeed. The "papers please" from days long ago will be resurrected under these proposals.
I have asked those in Arizona what would be the outcome should a family from Puerto Rico who may not have a grasp of the English language and have no passports due to their citizenship status be arrested in one of Sheriff Joe's immigrant sweeps.
Without "papers", my fictional, or not, family will be wrongly detained simply because they met the profile (being brown and Spanish speaking).
We have never learned that our extremist nativism only foments hate.
I have asked those in Arizona what would be the outcome should a family from Puerto Rico who may not have a grasp of the English language and have no passports due to their citizenship status be arrested in one of Sheriff Joe's immigrant sweeps.
Without "papers", my fictional, or not, family will be wrongly detained simply because they met the profile (being brown and Spanish speaking).
We have never learned that our extremist nativism only foments hate.
1
This always makes me worry for Puerto Ricans. Of course they can't get their green cards-- because they're native born American citizens.
1
I know you're speaking cynically, but this scenario is truly disturbing. What does it even mean to look "American"? This is your point, of course, but it has me shuddering. Looking "American" evokes images of fascism, white supremacy, and vigilante gunmen. Think about Nixon and how his administration went after hippies and Blacks.
1
If this vile person acquires the levers of power and attempts to turn the USA into a police state I will join with other true Americans to monkey wrench those levers. The un-American minority who chant "USA, USA, USA" in mass rallies will be opposed by a super-majority who actually are the USA.
Trump may somehow manage to win the election though a combination of Russian engineered fraud and Hillary Hatred, but he will never win the soul of our country.
Trump may somehow manage to win the election though a combination of Russian engineered fraud and Hillary Hatred, but he will never win the soul of our country.
14
You know and I know that many immigrants will be killed by predatory cops during the dragnet. Don Trump would create a police state even worse than we have now that would rival the Nazi's.
48
All law enforcement agency's have uniforms, whether a 3 piece suit or fatigues. I suggest that President Trump dress his new deportation squads in brown shirts.
32
Of course I would never vote for Trump, but I agree with his deportation plans. Outsiders should view with fear trying to enter our country illegally.
4
If you agree with a candidate's policies why would you not consider voting for him/her? Perhaps honesty/integrity is more influential?
Curiouser and curiouser.
Curiouser and curiouser.
3
I agree with his immigration plan but I really dislike the man, and I disagree with the GOP on their tax policies. I believe in much higher taxes on the rich, an end to the cap on earnings subject to the social security tax, an end to lower taxes on capital gains and carried interest, and an end to sweetheart tax deals for the real estate industry. I would also like to see the issue of excessive executive compensation addressed.
4
I agree, people attempting to circumvent our immigration laws should be living in fear. If there is no fear of deportation, what's the downside of breaking the law?
4
Anne Frank, start stockpiling empty diaries and pens. I have a secret attic you can hide in.
20
Following the laws of this country is now bad according to the Editorial Board? Trump outside of wanting to build a wall said nothing outside the law as now written, he just wants to enforce it, something that has not been done for almost eight years. Yes many will be deported, the criminals, those who cross the border illegally those whose visa have expired. As for the rest he said after all the above is done then the five or so million left will looked at as far as what too do. I would like to see a worker program like Canada has but that decision will be in the future. Trump's a plan is better for this country. It is much better than what we now have or what Hillary wants to continue.
11
This editorial is completely unnecessary: Trump will quite simply never be elected. Not in 2016, 2020 or ever.
9
The man is an idiot. So much hate and paranoia being preached. What is more worrisome is the mindset of the people who rally round him.
People will believe what they want to believe - don't bother them with the facts
This election will show us clearly what a percentage of Americans think about their country, their freedom and their pursuit of happiness...and clearly the kind of leadership they want..
I pray that this man doesn't get elected to the highest office in the land.
If he does - God help us all.
People will believe what they want to believe - don't bother them with the facts
This election will show us clearly what a percentage of Americans think about their country, their freedom and their pursuit of happiness...and clearly the kind of leadership they want..
I pray that this man doesn't get elected to the highest office in the land.
If he does - God help us all.
59
I.A.
If Hillary wins God won't helps because we will deserve what happens to us.
If Hillary wins God won't helps because we will deserve what happens to us.
5
This election will show us clearly what a percentage of Americans think about their country, their freedom and their pursuit of happiness...and clearly the kind of leadership they want...
Ummm...isn't that what all elections do?
Ummm...isn't that what all elections do?
3
Don't bother them with facts? It is factual that illegal immigration is a significant problem in the Country.
5
In case you are not paying attention Mr. Trump is now ahead of Mrs. Clinton in the polls. His message must be resonating with the majority of Americans.
4
in response yo Jack L.
"Mr. Trump is now ahead of Mrs. Clinton in the polls…."
says who?
"Mr. Trump is now ahead of Mrs. Clinton in the polls…."
says who?
15
Aren't there laws against hate speech, because almost everything coming out of Trump's mouth (to my ears) is hate speech.
Freedom of speech is not an absolute, so why is Trump given such latitude under the guise of "running for president."
Freedom of speech is not an absolute, so why is Trump given such latitude under the guise of "running for president."
30
Imagine the scandal in September of 2012 if journalists at, say, Mother Jones discovered that Mitt Romney had, not long ago, run an agency that imported under-aged girls from other countries on tourist visas to work illegally as models, told them to lie to customs agents about why they were here, charged them $1600 per month for a bed in a room they shared with five or six other young models who were here illegally, and underpaid them for the work they were doing. Every news agency and newspaper in America would have devoted 24/7 coverage to this fatal taint on the Romney campaign for President.
But when Mother Jones breaks that same story in September 2016 about the Trump Modeling Management agency -- at around the time that the hypocrite Donald J. Trump is railing against the way the Obama administration enforces tourist visas, what do we get from the fourth estate? *Yawn.*
He was right: He absolutely could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and no one would care. I really don't get it.
But when Mother Jones breaks that same story in September 2016 about the Trump Modeling Management agency -- at around the time that the hypocrite Donald J. Trump is railing against the way the Obama administration enforces tourist visas, what do we get from the fourth estate? *Yawn.*
He was right: He absolutely could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and no one would care. I really don't get it.
378
You probably felt the same way I did when I wrote "Trump Modeling Agency"? Just the IDEA if that made me feel dirty and in need of s shower.
18
Clinton could shoot someone in Times Sq and still be the far better candidate. this election is the worst I've ever seen. no choice at all. I can't vote. It only encourages them.
This was reported by the CBC as well. I was very surprised not to see it on the front page of the NYT's.
2
Listening to Trump makes one wonder how Neanderthaler could make it to America?
7
This could just be a rumor but many are saying Trump useta be a Man, now the people who come up to me all the time saying this is true are really great people fabulous people.
Being twitter slapped by the Mexican President is just one more embarrassment for the tweeting toad.
Being twitter slapped by the Mexican President is just one more embarrassment for the tweeting toad.
5
Sometimes when I have gone to the theater and sat through a boring performance I would change things in my mind to make it interesting. As a thought experiment, what if Trump were to replace the words 'we will build a wall’ with ‘we will build so much solar, wind and geothermal energy capacity’. And what if he were to say Mexicans were’ carpenters and builders’ instead of ‘murderers and rapists’. Just a thought for an otherwise dismal presidential candidate.
15
I'd prefer he said that illegal immigration is a problem and we have to stop denying that fact. We have to start enforcing the law in a compassionate manner.
"Hillary for Prison".... and everyone else 'we' decide 'we' don't like....
This is video game fantasyland.... no rules, no laws, no pauses.... just indiscriminate 'mow'em down' until only 'we' are left....
Perfect!! Except for the total dismissal of a concept called 'Civilization'...
Not what my four generations of veteran forebears fought for....
This is video game fantasyland.... no rules, no laws, no pauses.... just indiscriminate 'mow'em down' until only 'we' are left....
Perfect!! Except for the total dismissal of a concept called 'Civilization'...
Not what my four generations of veteran forebears fought for....
50
Your forebears fought for this NATION, meaning secure borders and the rule of law. Without that, there is nothing but chaos. NO other industrialized western nations allow unchecked immigration without rules or laws -- NONE. Mexico has stricter, more sensible immigration laws than the USA does! Mexico NEVER permits illegals to simply enter the country and steal THEIR jobs.
"Mow them down" suggests Trump is going to murder people, based solely on their skin color -- which is entirely invented and not supported by any statements he has made. It is designed to "gin up" fear and rage among latino voters and liberals! when in fact, it is poor black Americans and latino Americans who are losing jobs to unskilled, illiterate invaders.
There is no "we" in the sense you use it -- as if this is about white people vs. anyone of color. We have a very diverse nation of many races & religions, but we cannot simply have open borders and sanctuary cities, and take in all the poor of Mexico & Central America indefinitely.
"Mow them down" suggests Trump is going to murder people, based solely on their skin color -- which is entirely invented and not supported by any statements he has made. It is designed to "gin up" fear and rage among latino voters and liberals! when in fact, it is poor black Americans and latino Americans who are losing jobs to unskilled, illiterate invaders.
There is no "we" in the sense you use it -- as if this is about white people vs. anyone of color. We have a very diverse nation of many races & religions, but we cannot simply have open borders and sanctuary cities, and take in all the poor of Mexico & Central America indefinitely.
9
"...but we cannot simply have open borders and sanctuary cities, and take in all the poor of Mexico & Central America indefinitely."
That is precisely what the quotation on the Statue of Liberty said we would do, precisely what the Americans in the first two decades of the 20th century did that enabled my grandparents to emigrate -- peasants from Eastern Europe having to learn skills useful in industrialized NY City, unable to speak English. Shall we send the Statue back to France or just knock it down, since so many of us don't seem to believe in what the Statue stands for any more? Let's just do the honest thing if the Statue no longer represents the spirit of America.
That is precisely what the quotation on the Statue of Liberty said we would do, precisely what the Americans in the first two decades of the 20th century did that enabled my grandparents to emigrate -- peasants from Eastern Europe having to learn skills useful in industrialized NY City, unable to speak English. Shall we send the Statue back to France or just knock it down, since so many of us don't seem to believe in what the Statue stands for any more? Let's just do the honest thing if the Statue no longer represents the spirit of America.
332
Yes.
1
Amazing that the companies that knowingly provide jobs to illegals (such as fly by night construction companies that pick up illegals on the street corners where they gather) are subject to none of the same vituperation, demonizing, jail time, or other legal penalties that Trump would levy on the immigrants. No where do they appear to figure in his plan. Yet, without them, there would be no reason for people to cross the border. A rather selective version of "law and order."
723
NOT TRUE. Real enforcement and application of E-verify would levy very substantial penalties on employers who hire illegals. And I would personally recommend making those even harsher, including mandatory JAIL TIME. Nothing terrifies rich white employers like the idea of jail time, and a few "Muffy & Biffs" in jail would have a freezing effect that would eliminate nearly all illegal hiring in months. No jobs, no illegals -- they will SELF DEPORT.
Yes, Mitt Romney was right after all! Self deportation is the answer!
Yes, Mitt Romney was right after all! Self deportation is the answer!
8
I've vituperated them lots. They are the magnet. Why should they get a pass?
1
And on the very companies (subs) that Trump used for his many construction jobs. It's like prostitution: the prostitutes get fined, go to jail, the "customers": exempt. It's the same "law and order" that you mention, right?
1
The GOP wants to get government "off our backs," yet wants a police state? We are all immigrants.
27
You may be; I have no idea. I was born in this country, and by the law, I am a CITIZEN....a natural born citizen. So were my parents. My grandparents (all four of 'em) came here legally between 1900 and 1920, and I have their immigration & naturalization papers to prove it if you doubt me.
That liberals seek to conflate LEGAL immigration with ILLEGAL immigration is despicable. It suggests there should be no borders and no laws, and that citizenship itself is meaningless -- if we are all "immigrants", then nobody can be turned away. This planet has 7 billion people today....most are poor. Can we take in ALL of Central America? ALL of Africa? because trust me, those people would like to come too.
That liberals seek to conflate LEGAL immigration with ILLEGAL immigration is despicable. It suggests there should be no borders and no laws, and that citizenship itself is meaningless -- if we are all "immigrants", then nobody can be turned away. This planet has 7 billion people today....most are poor. Can we take in ALL of Central America? ALL of Africa? because trust me, those people would like to come too.
12
Citizen google was "legal" immigration inbetween 1900 and 1920 looked like -no papers. Try again
3
Mr. Trump and his political team have apparently concluded that promises to detain then deport millions of agricultural workers, maids, laborers and other honest, hard-working residents contributing to our economy just doesn't have the emotional impact they require.
2
Donald Trump is an unusual candidate for president, but all you nattering nabobs of negativity do realize, do you not, that you created him?
Your administration’s policies of globalization, leading from weakness, weakening our military and hog-tying its ability to act, endless accumulation of debt, the loss of America’s credit rating, the end of the US dollar as the world’s reserve currency, and replacing productive work with government doles (The best welfare program has always been JOBS, something the middle class knows but you don’t), has led to the anger and fear that he is the only candidate to address.
In ten thousand communities across America, shuttered factories and families living on food stamps rather than good salaries have been met with bureaucratic babble about a new world order. American workers don’t want such self-serving excuses. They want a real reason to be proud of America again.
Donald Trump, for all his flaws, promises that. His opponent offers only more of the same that has ruined us.
Your administration’s policies of globalization, leading from weakness, weakening our military and hog-tying its ability to act, endless accumulation of debt, the loss of America’s credit rating, the end of the US dollar as the world’s reserve currency, and replacing productive work with government doles (The best welfare program has always been JOBS, something the middle class knows but you don’t), has led to the anger and fear that he is the only candidate to address.
In ten thousand communities across America, shuttered factories and families living on food stamps rather than good salaries have been met with bureaucratic babble about a new world order. American workers don’t want such self-serving excuses. They want a real reason to be proud of America again.
Donald Trump, for all his flaws, promises that. His opponent offers only more of the same that has ruined us.
9
In ten thousand communities across America, shuttered factories and families living on food stamps rather than good salaries have been met with bureaucratic babble about a new world order. American workers don’t want such self-serving excuses. They want a real reason to be proud of America again.
Donald Trump, for all his flaws, promises that. His opponent offers only more of the same that has ruined us.
First off, we ain't ruined. The US is still the biggest economy on the planet, the 2nd-most innovative and job-creating economy (after Israel). The US dollar is still the preferred reserve currency for anyone living anywhere in the world and wants to do business. Euro? Chinese Yuan? Pshaw.
Donald Trump -- and I've watched a few of his speeches including the entire Phoenix speech just a day ago -- hasn't offered anything close to evidence that he can deliver on his "promises." And his fans don't seem to get it either. There is this thing. It's called the United States Congress. There is a House and a Senate. They *hold* the purse strings for the US Treasury. Nothing goes out or comes in without the approval of that Congress. To the possible President Trump and his supporters I offer only this: good luck with that (see the comment above on the cost of tripling the ICE and adding 5,000 Border Patrol Officers).
Donald Trump, for all his flaws, promises that. His opponent offers only more of the same that has ruined us.
First off, we ain't ruined. The US is still the biggest economy on the planet, the 2nd-most innovative and job-creating economy (after Israel). The US dollar is still the preferred reserve currency for anyone living anywhere in the world and wants to do business. Euro? Chinese Yuan? Pshaw.
Donald Trump -- and I've watched a few of his speeches including the entire Phoenix speech just a day ago -- hasn't offered anything close to evidence that he can deliver on his "promises." And his fans don't seem to get it either. There is this thing. It's called the United States Congress. There is a House and a Senate. They *hold* the purse strings for the US Treasury. Nothing goes out or comes in without the approval of that Congress. To the possible President Trump and his supporters I offer only this: good luck with that (see the comment above on the cost of tripling the ICE and adding 5,000 Border Patrol Officers).
5
Could not agree more.
"Donald Trump, for all his flaws, promises that." With all do respect, his flaws are glaring, his temperament unpredictable and his failure to denounce violence among his supporters was baffling. While I don't disagree that our country has issues that need correction, will voting for Mr. Trump make our country "Great" (again)? Was it great during slavery? Was it great during the civil rights era? Was it great during recent wars? What absence of greatness again does Mr. Trump and his supporters long for. To the contrary, Mr. Trump's divisiveness, violence, the failure to understand that "all men are created equal" will not strengthen our country, only further divide us which is counterproductive to the creation of greatness that Mr. Trump and his supporters speak about so often. As an African-American, many of my African-American friends were willing to give Mr. Trump a chance earlier in his campaign, but just like the energizer bunny, he kept going, and going, and going and now he wants to be inclusive? A day late and a dollar short. I feel he and his supporters that are still on the Titanic have some myopic views that will never make this country great without much prayer and deep reflection. I pray they will jump of off the boat before it sinks. As the Emmanuel 9 victims families stated, "Hate will NEVER win!"
3
The biggest danger about Trump is that people become numb to the hatred, bigotry, and utter stupidity and incompetence of the nominee. People don't take him seriously because he is such a cartoonish character. But people should take the danger very seriously and make sure to vote on election day.
47
Since Mexico is not going to pay for the Wall, a “President Trump” would have three choices. He could ask for a tax increase to finance the wall, but that would violate the anti-tax position of the Republican Party. He could sell bonds but that would increase the national debt and that is verboten. Finally, he would have to ask for voluntary contributions from all those who have supported the Wall.
6
I see -- because President Pena Nieto has said, once, that he won't pay -- that's the end of the negotiations?
Gee, I'm glad you are not my lawyer representing me in any legal action. You give up instantly?
Trump is not POTUS, just a candidate (running behind!). Pena Nieto has no particular reason to give in to any demands at this point. After all, if Hillary wins -- he gets his dreams coming true! He can continue to push the poorest and most violent and uneducated of his countrymen to move to the US and live off US welfare! Pena Nieto has no reason to negotiate NOW.
But if Trump is elected....Mexico will face the very real possibility of a cut off of aid, and reduced trade, and it would be pretty easy to shut off the flow of "remittance" monies to Mexico. Mexico's economy is 80% dependent on this transfer. It's why most illegals are in the US; they send money home to their villages. Without that, Mexico would be plunged into depression.
We are talking about tens of billions of dollars. In comparison, starting work on the wall would be a bargain.
However....I say this with full knowledge that ANY wall is symbolic. It will send a powerful message, yes. But what will really turn illegal immigration around is full enforcement of E-verify. No jobs....no illegals. It is really THAT simple.
Gee, I'm glad you are not my lawyer representing me in any legal action. You give up instantly?
Trump is not POTUS, just a candidate (running behind!). Pena Nieto has no particular reason to give in to any demands at this point. After all, if Hillary wins -- he gets his dreams coming true! He can continue to push the poorest and most violent and uneducated of his countrymen to move to the US and live off US welfare! Pena Nieto has no reason to negotiate NOW.
But if Trump is elected....Mexico will face the very real possibility of a cut off of aid, and reduced trade, and it would be pretty easy to shut off the flow of "remittance" monies to Mexico. Mexico's economy is 80% dependent on this transfer. It's why most illegals are in the US; they send money home to their villages. Without that, Mexico would be plunged into depression.
We are talking about tens of billions of dollars. In comparison, starting work on the wall would be a bargain.
However....I say this with full knowledge that ANY wall is symbolic. It will send a powerful message, yes. But what will really turn illegal immigration around is full enforcement of E-verify. No jobs....no illegals. It is really THAT simple.
9
Seriously? You actually think there would be any negotion other than attacking and laying waste to a nation and raiding their treasures that would MAKE a nation pay for such a stupid thing? Alt-right nonsense
4
It'd be fun - in a matter of speaking - to watch how the economies in Texas and Iowa, both red states, by the way, might fair if that happened. While I am no economist, this could lower productivity significantly.
4
Still, from the perspective of counter-terrorism at the border, Trump's ideas seem rooted in solid academic research about how (and especially, which) migrants from the Middle East make their way to our southern frontier with Mexico. For example, this peer-reviewed academic research, actually cites current DHS "countries of interest" the government has already long used to identify migrants for unique national security vetting: https://www.hsaj.org/articles/10568
The research suggests that the vetting of migrants from these 35 countries is far shy of the "extreme vetting" that Trump wants to do for people from those very same countries, so he is not incorrect in his assertions about giving national security treatment to people to whom we normally grant asylum, from places he mentioned like Syria and Iraq. Trump is simply not crazy in any of his comments and plans about this subset of migrants reaching our border. The Naval Postgraduate School's scholarly research in the Homeland Security Affairs Journal describes, in painstaking detail (https://www.hsaj.org/articles/10568), exactly how the Bush/Obama administrations have already been handling people from those countries - and the fact that there is a very well entrenched infrastructure of human smuggling from those countries to our border through Mexico.
The research suggests that the vetting of migrants from these 35 countries is far shy of the "extreme vetting" that Trump wants to do for people from those very same countries, so he is not incorrect in his assertions about giving national security treatment to people to whom we normally grant asylum, from places he mentioned like Syria and Iraq. Trump is simply not crazy in any of his comments and plans about this subset of migrants reaching our border. The Naval Postgraduate School's scholarly research in the Homeland Security Affairs Journal describes, in painstaking detail (https://www.hsaj.org/articles/10568), exactly how the Bush/Obama administrations have already been handling people from those countries - and the fact that there is a very well entrenched infrastructure of human smuggling from those countries to our border through Mexico.
9
Oklahoma City
Waco
Texas University Towers
Charleston Baptist Church
Sandyhook Elementary School
Columbine...........the list is endless. We have our own home grown white Christian killers. Our own network of organized criminals, illegal drug, human trafficking, prostitution - International bad guys tossed in for good measure, after all we're the melting pot. What is this vetting and deportation going to accomplish? Police State? Economic upheaval? Cost? Please don't wave those 'scholarly' papers at us. We've read them.
Waco
Texas University Towers
Charleston Baptist Church
Sandyhook Elementary School
Columbine...........the list is endless. We have our own home grown white Christian killers. Our own network of organized criminals, illegal drug, human trafficking, prostitution - International bad guys tossed in for good measure, after all we're the melting pot. What is this vetting and deportation going to accomplish? Police State? Economic upheaval? Cost? Please don't wave those 'scholarly' papers at us. We've read them.
20
@winchestereast: with a couple exceptions, those are examples of mentally ill young men -- not "Christians" or terrorists. Adam Lanza was not a Christian terrorist. He was a sick, pathetic mentally ill young man whose rage and symptoms outstripped any care or concerns from his family or mental health professionals.
To compare that to organized terrorism, or deliberate radicalization via the internet, is ridiculous. Also incidents like Oklahoma City or Waco happened a generation ago. Things changed drastically after 9/11.
Nobody ever said that stopping illegal immigration would solve every problem in the entire world. Of course it won't! But it will help struggling American workers, who cannot compete with illegals who work for $4 cash under the table.
You cannot ask, with a straight face, for a $15 minimum wage and then also maintain we must have porous borders, sanctuary cities, massive illegal immigration and amnesty. Nobody hires illegal aliens in order to pay $15 an hour! They hire illegals in order to pay $4 an hour, no benefits and avoid payroll taxes.
To compare that to organized terrorism, or deliberate radicalization via the internet, is ridiculous. Also incidents like Oklahoma City or Waco happened a generation ago. Things changed drastically after 9/11.
Nobody ever said that stopping illegal immigration would solve every problem in the entire world. Of course it won't! But it will help struggling American workers, who cannot compete with illegals who work for $4 cash under the table.
You cannot ask, with a straight face, for a $15 minimum wage and then also maintain we must have porous borders, sanctuary cities, massive illegal immigration and amnesty. Nobody hires illegal aliens in order to pay $15 an hour! They hire illegals in order to pay $4 an hour, no benefits and avoid payroll taxes.
6
Yes, we have enough home grown crazies. We don't need more.
2
"As the pogrom spread, units of the SS and Gestapo (Secret State Police), following Heydrich's instructions, arrested up to 30,000 Jewish males, and transferred most of them from local prisons to Dachau, Buchenwald, Sachsenhausen, and other concentration camps.
Significantly, Kristallnacht marks the first instance in which the Nazi regime incarcerated Jews on a massive scale simply on the basis of their ethnicity. Hundreds died in the camps as a result of the brutal treatment they endured. Most did obtain release over the next three months on the condition that they begin the process of emigration from Germany. Indeed, the effects of Kristallnacht would serve as a spur to the emigration of Jews from Germany in the months to come."
https://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10005201
The above, excerpted from the US Holocaust Memorial Museum Encyclopedia, came immediately to mind when I read this article.
And now, perhaps a quotation from Martin Niemöller would be appropriate:
First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
Significantly, Kristallnacht marks the first instance in which the Nazi regime incarcerated Jews on a massive scale simply on the basis of their ethnicity. Hundreds died in the camps as a result of the brutal treatment they endured. Most did obtain release over the next three months on the condition that they begin the process of emigration from Germany. Indeed, the effects of Kristallnacht would serve as a spur to the emigration of Jews from Germany in the months to come."
https://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10005201
The above, excerpted from the US Holocaust Memorial Museum Encyclopedia, came immediately to mind when I read this article.
And now, perhaps a quotation from Martin Niemöller would be appropriate:
First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
165
i know about that: my own mother killed herself: rather than become part of it
5
The only immigrants Donald appears to favor are fair-skinned, docile, like the ones he brings in by the hundreds on guest worker visas, or the well-coiffed, sculpted lovelies he marries. Legal or not.
He made no attempt to deport the un-documented Polish construction workers living on-site and doing the dangerous demolition and prep work for his first vanity project. Donald tried to stiff arm them into servitude.
Deport Donald. Send his supporters along to give him the perpetual rally of thugs he seems to crave.
He made no attempt to deport the un-documented Polish construction workers living on-site and doing the dangerous demolition and prep work for his first vanity project. Donald tried to stiff arm them into servitude.
Deport Donald. Send his supporters along to give him the perpetual rally of thugs he seems to crave.
132
Your last sentence triggered a wonderful daydream of what a great great country this would be if DT and the yahoos who support him, did leave the US. What would be left would be a majority of intelligent and compassionate citizens. The problem would be, of course, finding a country willing to take the Trumpsters. Maybe the Sahara Desert? No, we couldn't do that to Africa.
"If you saw Mr. Trump’s speech, and you care about the country and values of tolerance and human rights and weren’t disgusted, you were either fooled, or not paying attention."
It's funny because the part in that statement about either being fooled or not paying attention aptly applies to the media, which continues to cover the Trump Show as if it had a second act, known as the "Pivot", which would suddenly change both the candidate and the complexion of the race. However, anyone who has been paying attention since the day Trump launched his candidacy knows that the Trump Show has no second act. What we have seen to date is all there is. The curtain will come down on the 2016 presidential campaign with Trump being Trump, meaning the same rotten to the core and most unfit candidate ever to seek the US presidency. The only suspense is whether the American people will do the unthinkable on November 8 and make him the most power man on the planet. If that uncertainty does not scare a record turnout to vote against Trump, nothing will.
It's funny because the part in that statement about either being fooled or not paying attention aptly applies to the media, which continues to cover the Trump Show as if it had a second act, known as the "Pivot", which would suddenly change both the candidate and the complexion of the race. However, anyone who has been paying attention since the day Trump launched his candidacy knows that the Trump Show has no second act. What we have seen to date is all there is. The curtain will come down on the 2016 presidential campaign with Trump being Trump, meaning the same rotten to the core and most unfit candidate ever to seek the US presidency. The only suspense is whether the American people will do the unthinkable on November 8 and make him the most power man on the planet. If that uncertainty does not scare a record turnout to vote against Trump, nothing will.
162
So the "thinkable" thing to do is to donate to the Clinton Foundation so that the ringmaster and his power-starved ring mistress may continue their vital and life-saving work?
No thanks.
We've had a clown in the WH for 8 years providing no leadership or vision. And we survived. Donald is resonating with the majority who find the circus to be most wanting.
No thanks.
We've had a clown in the WH for 8 years providing no leadership or vision. And we survived. Donald is resonating with the majority who find the circus to be most wanting.
4
It is hardly surprising that in a country where war criminals like Bush/Cheney are not prosecuted for torture, where Wall Street banksters are not prosecuted for fraud and illegal wars and coups are the foreign policy du jour, we are having a hard time dealing with illegal immigration.
The United States has become a country where law is only applied if it is politically expedient, forget justice or morality, that's for suckers.
I don't agree with Mr.Trump's deportation plans, but the people here illegally knew what they were doing when they broke the law to come here. So do the employers that hire these people. Those are the facts.
If there are no consequences for breaking the law it'll be a big fat slap in the face of all those people who, like myself, patiently waited their turn, suffered through separation from loved ones, financial losses etc. to immigrate to this country legally and it'll set another precedent that obeying the law in the United States is just for chumps, the gullible fools, stupidly idealistic to believe that adhering to the Rule of Law helps us form a better Union for all of us.
But then again, that train might have left the station a while back.
The United States has become a country where law is only applied if it is politically expedient, forget justice or morality, that's for suckers.
I don't agree with Mr.Trump's deportation plans, but the people here illegally knew what they were doing when they broke the law to come here. So do the employers that hire these people. Those are the facts.
If there are no consequences for breaking the law it'll be a big fat slap in the face of all those people who, like myself, patiently waited their turn, suffered through separation from loved ones, financial losses etc. to immigrate to this country legally and it'll set another precedent that obeying the law in the United States is just for chumps, the gullible fools, stupidly idealistic to believe that adhering to the Rule of Law helps us form a better Union for all of us.
But then again, that train might have left the station a while back.
134
Who failed to prosecute Bush or Cheney? It would have had to have been either Obama, the next POTUS in line OR Congress -- which was Democrat-dominant for years after Bush/Cheney left office!
Banksters? who failed to prosecute even one single bankster? OBAMA! who stood by while the banks -- who got bailed out -- used bailout money to pay millions in bonuses to the crooks who brought down the economy? OBAMA!
You cannot hang any of that on the GOP. It was ALL Democratic failure to do anything -- even when they held all the power in all 3 Houses of Congress.
Thanks, Obama!
(Same Obama had plenty of energy & moxie to use Executive Orders to force The Dream Act on the nation, after Congress turned it down!)
Banksters? who failed to prosecute even one single bankster? OBAMA! who stood by while the banks -- who got bailed out -- used bailout money to pay millions in bonuses to the crooks who brought down the economy? OBAMA!
You cannot hang any of that on the GOP. It was ALL Democratic failure to do anything -- even when they held all the power in all 3 Houses of Congress.
Thanks, Obama!
(Same Obama had plenty of energy & moxie to use Executive Orders to force The Dream Act on the nation, after Congress turned it down!)
5
Thank you, Chris, for standing up for the people that immigrated to the United States legally. At the end of the last millennium, after finishing graduate school, I went through the lengthy process of getting a green card. I had to go back to Europe, collect and translate many financial and civil documents, had to prove that I wouldn't be a burden for the American taxpayer, underwent a medical exam, went through a grueling interview etc. etc.
Looking back it seems I should have just overstayed my visa and wait for some kind of amnesty, but then after George W. Bush got reelected in 2004 I decided to let my hard earned green card expire and moved to beautiful Lisbon instead.
Looking at the abysmal choices for President this time around just confirms my belief that I definitely made the right decision back then.
But thanks again for sticking your neck out for the lawful immigrants out there, they deserve to be recognized.
Looking back it seems I should have just overstayed my visa and wait for some kind of amnesty, but then after George W. Bush got reelected in 2004 I decided to let my hard earned green card expire and moved to beautiful Lisbon instead.
Looking at the abysmal choices for President this time around just confirms my belief that I definitely made the right decision back then.
But thanks again for sticking your neck out for the lawful immigrants out there, they deserve to be recognized.
5
Citizen, what will the folks who just can't get over a black man in the White House do when he is gone? Let me guess, and endless foam of misogynistic school boy rants
3
trump is an idiot and his supporters are even worse.
68
You better hope not as all our border agents support him through their union!
Why Richard, do you think they will start a coup against Clinton? Now that is the crux of the matter isn't it.
1
$400 and $600 billion - Estimated cost to apprehend, detain, process, and transport all undocumented immigrants back to their countries of origin.
$1.6 trillion - Estimated amount by which the economy will shrink (6%) over 20 years.
Millions of jobs - especially in construction, farming, and hospitality that will not be filled by citizens.
Police state -
“I can’t even begin to picture how we would deport 11 million people in a few years where we don’t have a police state, where the police can’t break down your door at will and take you away without a warrant.” Michael Chertoff
Missing gang members and drug traffickers -
“If the agents are looking for volume, they won’t spend the time to do the detective work tracking down the high-value bad guy who has fake documents, the hardened criminals in the shadows.” John Sandweg, former ICE director.
$1.6 trillion - Estimated amount by which the economy will shrink (6%) over 20 years.
Millions of jobs - especially in construction, farming, and hospitality that will not be filled by citizens.
Police state -
“I can’t even begin to picture how we would deport 11 million people in a few years where we don’t have a police state, where the police can’t break down your door at will and take you away without a warrant.” Michael Chertoff
Missing gang members and drug traffickers -
“If the agents are looking for volume, they won’t spend the time to do the detective work tracking down the high-value bad guy who has fake documents, the hardened criminals in the shadows.” John Sandweg, former ICE director.
29
You must be living in a wonderful fantasyland -- a bubble of affluence and privilege -- where you imagine that AMERICANS will now not do construction work!
It used to be "Americans won't pick fruit", but now they won't even do well-paying, skilled construction work. I guess they can't hang dry wall now, or lay tile, or do roofing either.
Americans can only do office work, inside of air conditioned offices -- right?
Only 1% of all illegals work in agriculture or farming. 99% work in cities, doing jobs that Americans CAN do -- DID do -- and WILL do in the future.
You don't deport millions of illegals by "breaking down doors". You do it by demanding proper ID and green cards, and going after EMPLOYERS who violate the law. You do it with E-verify.
While criminals clearly present problems -- 27% of all prisoners in US jails are illegal aliens, wildly out of proportion with their population! -- it is the illegal unwed welfare mother who is the biggest and most obvious drain on the economy, along with the illegal young single male, who will work for $4-$5 an hour cash under the table -- low wages that Americans (who pay TAXES) cannot compete with.
It used to be "Americans won't pick fruit", but now they won't even do well-paying, skilled construction work. I guess they can't hang dry wall now, or lay tile, or do roofing either.
Americans can only do office work, inside of air conditioned offices -- right?
Only 1% of all illegals work in agriculture or farming. 99% work in cities, doing jobs that Americans CAN do -- DID do -- and WILL do in the future.
You don't deport millions of illegals by "breaking down doors". You do it by demanding proper ID and green cards, and going after EMPLOYERS who violate the law. You do it with E-verify.
While criminals clearly present problems -- 27% of all prisoners in US jails are illegal aliens, wildly out of proportion with their population! -- it is the illegal unwed welfare mother who is the biggest and most obvious drain on the economy, along with the illegal young single male, who will work for $4-$5 an hour cash under the table -- low wages that Americans (who pay TAXES) cannot compete with.
6
Well none of donalds pplans include going after employers. Ask yourself why.
6
Deportation of the millions of illegal immigrants is going to happen and Trump's campaign has legs because of it. Most Americans are appalled by the readily available and cheap heroin that has flooded the country in the wake of a massive cartel and Latino drug gang influx. In fact, smack in little baggies is more available and cheaper than its gram equivalent of cannabis! How many people want their adolescent children snorting or shooting this deadly stuff that is so often laced with fentanyl and other synthetics, therefore even more fatal? I work in that "bloated department" of the Federal government you refer to and am proud to do my part to apprehend and prosecute these narcotic-vending villains, none of whom would be here if it weren't for Chicago's status as a sanctuario. Let ICE do its good work because we have an enormous mess on our hands, one engendered by misguided principles of inclusiveness.
15
Thanks for two good arguments for legalizing drugs: this would remove the criminal element from the distribution and sale of drugs, thereby eliminating the violence perpetrated by the gangs of criminals who currently own this market, and this would also create a marketing environment which would encourage the manufacture of safer forms of these drugs which would eliminate deaths attributed to the cutting of or counterfitting of these drug with deadly chemicals.
10
Is it really mixed messaging if it's delivered by two different personalities? Don, the charismatic presidential contender who went to play footsies with the President of Mexico, and Donald, the angry, brutal, empathy-free populist speaking in Arizona a few hours later.
Don and Donald's Excellent Adventure brought to mind Idi Amin. He too was known to have multiple personalities; for being charismatic and happy one minute, then becoming angry, brutal and empathy-free the next. Depending on who you believe, his behavior was a result of either long-term syphilis or untreated bipolar disorder.
Trump's erratic behavior is a warning sign we dismiss at our peril. Whether it's caused by bipolar disorder, syphilis, or acid reflux doesn't really matter. Nor does his trip to Mexico, except as a cautionary tale. What matters is what will happen when he pulls the same stunts with the leaders of nuclear powers like Russia, China, Pakistan...
The dangers Trump poses cannot be overstated. And not just to illegal immigrants. We all laughed at Amin until we began to see how unstable and murderous he was. It's frightening to think we could laugh someone like that into becoming the leader of the most powerful country in the world.
Don and Donald's Excellent Adventure brought to mind Idi Amin. He too was known to have multiple personalities; for being charismatic and happy one minute, then becoming angry, brutal and empathy-free the next. Depending on who you believe, his behavior was a result of either long-term syphilis or untreated bipolar disorder.
Trump's erratic behavior is a warning sign we dismiss at our peril. Whether it's caused by bipolar disorder, syphilis, or acid reflux doesn't really matter. Nor does his trip to Mexico, except as a cautionary tale. What matters is what will happen when he pulls the same stunts with the leaders of nuclear powers like Russia, China, Pakistan...
The dangers Trump poses cannot be overstated. And not just to illegal immigrants. We all laughed at Amin until we began to see how unstable and murderous he was. It's frightening to think we could laugh someone like that into becoming the leader of the most powerful country in the world.
39
Trump is not proposing anything new that should have been instated from the beginning. Illegal immigrants are breaking the law.
16
You must read these columns in the NYTimes with the fore knowledge that they (liberal media) and lefty liberals and Democrats all want MASSIVE illegal immigration, amnesty, The Dream Act and open borders.....they adore the idea of the US being a bilingual Spanish society. They ADORE the idea that we will have a small minority of white people, winnowed out by the multi-culti masses. But most of all, they yearn for a day when massive illegal immigration tips the population so far to the left, that the Democratic Party holds a permanent majority -- a one party system, like California has already "achieved" -- so that only Democrats rule over us, and can impose all the taxes and lefty social engineering of their dreams.
5
Yeah, that's exactly what this "lefty" wants. By the way, I grew up in a small rural town, raised on a farm. However, I didn't turn out to be a super capitalist who thinks that billionaires should pay a lower tax rate than middle class incomes. I didn't turn out to look down on anyone who wasn't white or Christian. I didn't turn out to think that unions or collective bargaining were bad. I didn't turn out to fly a flag every day of the year to show how much I "loved America" but had no use for about half of its citizenry. That's why I'm not a Republican.
7
Why is the NYT not identifying the white-nationalist-linked Center for Immigration Studies at least in the broad context of radical right-wing racism at its roots? (for example http://mediamatters.org/people/center-immigration-studies ) By speaking of this shady "Center" as if it were a serious academic think tank simply concerned with "want[ing] to restrict immigration," you risk giving it credibility or worse: you risk valorizing its false statistics and racist agenda. It is high time that the NYT and other serious newspapers/networks called these fake research groups on their lies as well as on their bald-faced racism--and on the shady funding networks that lend them a veneer of credibility. (And by the way, when you say Trump's speech was "embellished with statistics," you imply that his data is accurate, or even valid, even if his views and his delivery are off-the-wall. "Embellished with QUESTIONABLE statistics" might have been the way to word that to convey the fabrications, prevarications, slipperiness, & downright lies that he used to embolden the tripe he spewed Wed. night--again, frequently citing that same shady Center with its ties to some of the darkest agendas working behind the scenes in American politics). This is no longer a matter for attempting to be unbiased (your editorial, after all, can show your point of view). It's a matter of showing the very credibility of serious journalism in the face of propaganda & faked-up "statistic"-bearers.
31
I was speaking to two African-American professionals who are friends of forty years. The disappoint they expressed in Trump supporters was heartbreaking as the America they help build is far more racist and hateful than they thought. Trump's Mexican obsession is scary and sick as we're learning that he is afraid of taco trucks on the streets of NYC.
38
Do those African American "professionals" care that their FELLOW African American citizens have high rates of unemployment and joblessness? and that this is DIRECTLY DUE to the influx of millions of low-skill, uneducated illegal aliens from (mostly) Mexico and Central America? That poor black Americans in big cities cannot possibly compete with illegals for jobs, when the illegals work for cash under the table -- live 10 to a room -- scam the welfare system for their anchor babies -- underbid every job?
Do the same "professionals" cry for a $15 an hour minimum wage? Because you cannot have that -- high wages -- and also have open borders and massive illegal immigration.
Do the same "professionals" cry for a $15 an hour minimum wage? Because you cannot have that -- high wages -- and also have open borders and massive illegal immigration.
7
Wow, citizen, do realize professionals come in a colors? Some are women too. Why the quotation marks? here's another one ((woman)).
5
If it sounds like Nazi Germany or its conquered vassals, that's because it is. The United States has never been confronted with anything like it: storm troopers encouraged by shputing mobs.
Oh, wait. We have. Lynch mobs and slave catchers. What has happened to the party of Lincoln? It has become the party of Hannity and hatred.
Oh, wait. We have. Lynch mobs and slave catchers. What has happened to the party of Lincoln? It has become the party of Hannity and hatred.
253
The Association of German National Jews in 1935 comes to mind
CPW1, at the end of the war these jews for Hitler had to flee for their lives too and tried very hard to hide their past support.
1
The Party of Lincoln died with his death by maniacal gun shot.
1
What would keep the Trump administration from putting a bounty on Latinos? Say, anyone turning someone in would receive $250. In rural communities suffering from the drug epidemic a bounty might incite ugly scenes of Germany pre-WWII. And even Stalinist Russia. I fear for all the wonderful Latinos I know who have been here for years, started businesses and truly become citizens in the purest sense.
52
How anyone with a vestige of common sense can envision voting for this rabble rouser and snake oil vendor is beyond me. As someone old enough to clearly remember FDR, I wonder at how we have sunk so low in this country. We have many problems to solve but very few of them are caused by the undocumented immigrants in our midst. Blaming a minority and threatening to deport them en masse is taking a strategy from Hitler's playbook. Shameful and frightening!
209
we know it happened before: traurig
1
if idiocy were to be measured in bricks, Trump is the great wall of China.
150
Assuming that Trump understands the logistics of vigorously enforcing the law, how does he intend to transport and detain 6-11 million people? That's a lot of humanity to force to leave the US.
Will he use cattle cars? Will there be detention camps? If there are detention camps, will food, medical care and education be available for the people detained? We have existing laws denying illegal immigrants and their children such niceties.
What about the property they are forced to leave behind? Who gets that? Is it constitutional to deny American born children their citizenship?
If those details make Trump supporters squeamish, it shouldn't. They've already decided to destroy illegal immigrants' families, livelihoods and property to enforce the law. Let's here about how they're going to do it so we fully understand what the concept "never forget" really means.
Will he use cattle cars? Will there be detention camps? If there are detention camps, will food, medical care and education be available for the people detained? We have existing laws denying illegal immigrants and their children such niceties.
What about the property they are forced to leave behind? Who gets that? Is it constitutional to deny American born children their citizenship?
If those details make Trump supporters squeamish, it shouldn't. They've already decided to destroy illegal immigrants' families, livelihoods and property to enforce the law. Let's here about how they're going to do it so we fully understand what the concept "never forget" really means.
35
It is 30 million, not 11 million and not 6 million (???).
And they will self-deport, once we have E-verify as the law of the land and enforce it. No IDs, no jobs. When we enforce laws against employers of illegals, the jobs will disappear overnight. No jobs....they will return to their native homelands.
We can speed up the process with some very simple things -- put an INS officer, prominently, in every ER waiting room. Watch the illegals FLY AWAY! You can just round them up in the parking lot! Or how about in those Home Depot parking lots at 5AM? Just have an INS show up each day. Bingo!
End bilingual education in schools, and pass a LAW that we are not obligated to educate the children of Mexico and Central America! Don't let liberals on SCOTUS boss us around! We know what is decent and fair -- to send all illegals and their children back home to their native homelands!
Oh, and end birthright citizenship. Do those things, and in a year, 95% of illegals will be GONE -- and ten million American citizens will have new jobs.
And they will self-deport, once we have E-verify as the law of the land and enforce it. No IDs, no jobs. When we enforce laws against employers of illegals, the jobs will disappear overnight. No jobs....they will return to their native homelands.
We can speed up the process with some very simple things -- put an INS officer, prominently, in every ER waiting room. Watch the illegals FLY AWAY! You can just round them up in the parking lot! Or how about in those Home Depot parking lots at 5AM? Just have an INS show up each day. Bingo!
End bilingual education in schools, and pass a LAW that we are not obligated to educate the children of Mexico and Central America! Don't let liberals on SCOTUS boss us around! We know what is decent and fair -- to send all illegals and their children back home to their native homelands!
Oh, and end birthright citizenship. Do those things, and in a year, 95% of illegals will be GONE -- and ten million American citizens will have new jobs.
4
Concerned Citizen - So why aren't Republican politicians and business leaders getting behind e-verify now? Why isn't Trump providing proof that his businesses use it?
3
how did those 6-30 million here? You realize that the the transportation system moves millions of people everyday right? If they used those systems to get here we can use those same systems to send them back
1
The overwhelming majority of illegal immigrants arrived in the USA on valid visas, then over-stayed. As a result building a wall will have no significant effect --- illegal immigrants arrive by airlines. Immigration reform would require citizens capable of critical thinking and effective governance; instead we have 15 - 20 years of stalemate and bombast in this great land of exceptionalism.
15
The number of illegal immigrants who entered on valid visas then overstayed is about 40% of the total. A high number to be sure but not an "overwhelming majority".
7
The contrast in appearance between the Wednesday afternoon press conference with the Mexican President and the Wednesday evening speech in Phoenix could not have been starker just like the contrast between the speech and his talk about "softening." Which one are we to believe? Does Trump believe he can just take contradictory positions to appeal to all while expecting us to ignore the contradictions? It is absolutely frightening that so many Americans have put their trust in a man lacking one shred of integrity. God help us if he wins the Presidency by ramping up this kind of deception and duplicity!
509
I wouldn't even bring up the word integrity — in a man lacking one shred of sanity.
1
He is reaching out to the President of Mexico, while at the same time, letting Americans know that illegal immigration will not be tolerated. Actually he is quite brilliant. I don't see duplicity at all. I see diplomacy. I think he will make a great president. At least he is up front about what he will do.
1
Believe NOTHING that Donald Trump says. Trust me, he's lying!
What 'uniforms' will Trump's proposed 'enforcement' teams wear? Is it too soon to ask? Will they be the same as the Ailes Rush 'News' Team's (dark full suits for the men, colorful dresses with short skirts for the women) or something more fit to purpose? Brown shirts with gold trim under the body armor, say? Arm bands with some fittingly Trumpish symbol? The latter could be sported more easily at anti-democratic rallies -- that would be a selling point -- and could be produced quickly and inexpensively with Mexican labor (IN Mexico of course).
6
What do INS officers wear today? Border patrol officers? I think the INS wear regular clothes, business attire, with perhaps a windbreaker saying INS over it? And Border patrol wear uniforms like police anywhere.
Duh. And they are not "brownshirts".
BTW: most clothing and apparel today are made in CHINA....not Mexico. Look at the labels inside your clothing if you do not believe me.
Duh. And they are not "brownshirts".
BTW: most clothing and apparel today are made in CHINA....not Mexico. Look at the labels inside your clothing if you do not believe me.
2
Donald Trump once again is the fear monger in chief. The facts
regarding the situation of illegal immigration are known. Trump
though adheres to what a certain government in Germany from
1933-1945 did- the more that lies are told the more they become
reality for many. While Trump does a Pat Buchanan act on immigration
he does not realize how his twisted ideas play into the hands of various
terrorist groups. He also ignores the fact that we need to increase
the number of border patrol agents & resources on our northern border.
Parts of the border are heavily forested giving cover to drug dealers
smugglers etc. I would bet that his suggestion would be to use napham or agent orange to flush them out. If Trump were to be elected POTUS and some if not all of these policies were to be enacted it would probably not stop with illegal immigrants. The road to hell is paved with demagogues
such as Trump when in office end up enacting all their crazy
ideas. Trump's so called policy on dealing with illegal immigration
will not only worsen the problem but end up making some very
rich feasting on the suffering of innocents.
regarding the situation of illegal immigration are known. Trump
though adheres to what a certain government in Germany from
1933-1945 did- the more that lies are told the more they become
reality for many. While Trump does a Pat Buchanan act on immigration
he does not realize how his twisted ideas play into the hands of various
terrorist groups. He also ignores the fact that we need to increase
the number of border patrol agents & resources on our northern border.
Parts of the border are heavily forested giving cover to drug dealers
smugglers etc. I would bet that his suggestion would be to use napham or agent orange to flush them out. If Trump were to be elected POTUS and some if not all of these policies were to be enacted it would probably not stop with illegal immigrants. The road to hell is paved with demagogues
such as Trump when in office end up enacting all their crazy
ideas. Trump's so called policy on dealing with illegal immigration
will not only worsen the problem but end up making some very
rich feasting on the suffering of innocents.
5
Everything he promises about deportations he learned from Barack Obama.
3
What the editorial board missed, in plain sight in Donald Trump's speech, is that, under his administration, not only "illegals," but anyone termed as "undesirable," can be hunted down and stowed away in prison as a threat to the peace.
This Phoenix tirade, billed beforehand as a "major speech on immigration", was far from being a rant about immigration policy; it was a quite unsubtle appeal to whites that non-whites will be treated quite harshly by a President Trump; that civil liberties will very likely be suspended indefinitely; that the nightmare of mass roundups (in broad daylight or in the dead of night) will be central to his presidency.
The details, as is usual with Trump, don't matter. Mitch McConnell int he Senate, Paul Ryan in the House, ALEC, the Tea Party, the death by drowning of reason in Grover Norquist's bathtub, will all define America's shining new path.
Under Donald Trump, American will be made great again under this nativist banner: "Keep them out and kick them out".
This Phoenix tirade, billed beforehand as a "major speech on immigration", was far from being a rant about immigration policy; it was a quite unsubtle appeal to whites that non-whites will be treated quite harshly by a President Trump; that civil liberties will very likely be suspended indefinitely; that the nightmare of mass roundups (in broad daylight or in the dead of night) will be central to his presidency.
The details, as is usual with Trump, don't matter. Mitch McConnell int he Senate, Paul Ryan in the House, ALEC, the Tea Party, the death by drowning of reason in Grover Norquist's bathtub, will all define America's shining new path.
Under Donald Trump, American will be made great again under this nativist banner: "Keep them out and kick them out".
454
They shouldn't be here in the first place. At least, illegally.
You have a problem with enforcement of our immigration laws.
Why? Oh, it's Trump. He did all this....
You have a problem with enforcement of our immigration laws.
Why? Oh, it's Trump. He did all this....
8
Under our current President American Citizens have been executed by Presidential order! You probably will vote for Ms. Clinton who will continue the same policy.or even expand it. But what really bothers you is enforcing our immigration laws.
5
Well that should keep people out since no one in their right mind would seek to come to Trump's distopian USA. Mexico and Canada should probably hasten to build walls to keep fleeing American citizens out.
1
Conveniently forgetting his own as well as the nation's past, here's a Trump fancying himself to be the US President always preoccupied with erecting walls around, cross checking and deporting the "criminal aliens" coming to the US with no remote idea of its repercussions on the US economy and rest of the world.
20
Forgetting is essential for any regime to thrive.
3
Hitler and Mussolini enforced the law too.
134
both are dead THANK THE LORD
1
Hitler. Mussolini. Right! But Trump? In the same category? It reads like it's just politically correct to write so.
1
Except here we have a House and Senate whose political fate depends on how people react. In other words, checks and balances, which your comparisons ignore. Stop the hysteria.
1
TRUMP'S IMPENETRABLE MIND There goes Donald on a wild goose chase to Mexico, for a whirlwind act as a canard. He's a political turkey who's a hawk on immigration, a crow for pride, a peacock for his raucous voice, a cuckoo for his persona overall, a chicken for his cowardice, a magpie for his slovenly mentality, a buzzard for dead meat he like and an ostrich for his foreign policy of burying his head in the sand so he won't see the boot coming. Oh yeah, and the Dodo because he's well, a dodo. I wish they'd taken him to be on permanent loan to the zoo in mexico city where he could put his looniness on display. Right, he's a loon for his inchoate goofiness. Well I say, Build a wall and Trump will squawk. Laying an egg in Mexico then dive bombing Arizona with another egg. Is that a page from Horton and the egg? Hmm is Trump a faithful elephant? Nah, I think he's more like the person who's brought the herd of dead elephants into the GOP's living room. Let the Trumpettes sound! Meep meep! Oh yeah, he's a road runner too. Or better yet Donald plays the Wily Coyote!
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Love the creativity of your comment!
We are either a nation of laws, or we are not. Our laws with respect to illegal residency and immigration are not being enforced. We can argue all we like about the substance or correctness of our laws, but so long as these laws exist, we should enforce them.
Or, why have them?
Trump is substantially stating that we have EXISTING laws, we should enforce them. If you don't like a law change it, but flouting law for political expediency is not acceptable.
These are the simple facts. All else, is smoke and mirrors.
Or, why have them?
Trump is substantially stating that we have EXISTING laws, we should enforce them. If you don't like a law change it, but flouting law for political expediency is not acceptable.
These are the simple facts. All else, is smoke and mirrors.
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Locking up all those drug users won the war on drugs, didn't it!
You guys are insane*
*Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. (Attributed to Albert Einstein, who was not insane)
You guys are insane*
*Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. (Attributed to Albert Einstein, who was not insane)
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You are wrong. Laws can be arbitrary, cruel and unjust, bringing the law into disrepute. They can inspire such revulsion that a citizenry may defy them. Crude populism is no sound basis for lawmaking because it produces just those things. Australia's immigration laws are illustrative. They blight lives, crush spirits, have poisoned the public discourse and rendered our politics stagnant. They have produced a shameful paralysis of the national will so that, for now and perhaps for some time to come, we can no longer change them and ourselves for the good. Think again, comrade.
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Yes, Thomas...insanity.
Like giving another amnesty.
Like giving another amnesty.
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Somebody should tell Trump that we have people in Europe that know how to build and maintain an (almost) inbreachable border wall. He can probably get the blueprints second hand for cheap, and make Mexico pay for them with a markup.
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So, breaking the law deserves no action?
What American thinks like that?
People here illegally have forfeited their chance at staying here by the simple fact they broke the law to do it.
Also, if these people are so great for our country, wouldn't they be greater in their own countries where they don't have to hide?
What American thinks like that?
People here illegally have forfeited their chance at staying here by the simple fact they broke the law to do it.
Also, if these people are so great for our country, wouldn't they be greater in their own countries where they don't have to hide?
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New York has laws against jaywalking. Ever walk in Manhattan?
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Then you obey them.
It's not a hard concept.
It's not a hard concept.
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Let Trump start with a person who entered the US on a tourist visa, worked, left every 6 months and returned on that tourist visa to work which is not legal. Then married a US citizen and is now a US citizen. By law because they worked when they were not allowed to they should be deported and the naturalization rescinded. I will believe him if he deports his latest wife since this is what she did.
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Trump's plan is unrealistic. But, let's pretend we're on another earth and it's feasible. That's going to cost a lot of money. I would guess his cure exceeds whatever 11 million unauthorized immigrants costs us. The party of fiscal responsibility never seems that responsible. Maybe he can get some of the 11 mill to work on the wall as they're leaving.
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As opposed to 11 million gaining status and getting social benefits?
That will be trillions over the years.
How about enforcing E-Verify, arrest business owner who break the law, keep deporting those we catch and watch them leave when they realize they're not wanted or needed here.
You'll say that's not feasible, but, every option put forward has been shot down by the left.
Why. To appease a voting bloc.
That will be trillions over the years.
How about enforcing E-Verify, arrest business owner who break the law, keep deporting those we catch and watch them leave when they realize they're not wanted or needed here.
You'll say that's not feasible, but, every option put forward has been shot down by the left.
Why. To appease a voting bloc.
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You just don't understand. He will pay for a massive increase in the Government (wait, isn't that a Repub death panel?) with tax cuts - and of course a tax on Mexico.
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ICE deported more than 400,000 illegal immigrants in 2012. In 1954, President Eisenhower launched a roundup that removed more than one million unauthorized immigrants in just several months. The operation involved only 750 immigration and border patrol officers, a fraction of the force ICE and the Border Patrol could marshal today.
3
Trump and his posse are always slamming Obama for violating the Constituion but suggesting that he(they) will do it with their army of 'brown shirts'
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The U.S. is looking scarier by the minute. If Death Row prisoners can be wrongly executed, just imagine the millions of innocent persons who will be rounded up without trial or right of appeal.
The landscape is appearing downright Orwellian, as if the Patriot Act wasn't already enough.
Police State, anyone?
The landscape is appearing downright Orwellian, as if the Patriot Act wasn't already enough.
Police State, anyone?
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Just because YOUR country would accept a police state, the US just wants its laws enforced.
HUGE difference.
HUGE difference.
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Randy L, I don't know which country you're referring to. If it's Iran, well, all I can say is that you've lowered the bar considerably:
You should be comparing the U.S. with Germany, Britain and other OECD nations, then you'll realize the extent to which individual rights in YOUR country have been abused: Arrests without right of appeal, Extraordinary Rendition, Rule by Kleptocracy, brutal suppression of protests, 2 million incarcerated, Turkey-Shoot rights under the 2nd Amendment.... Less than one homicide per year by British police compared with 950 by U.S. police in 2015 alone, ....
Need I continue?
You should be comparing the U.S. with Germany, Britain and other OECD nations, then you'll realize the extent to which individual rights in YOUR country have been abused: Arrests without right of appeal, Extraordinary Rendition, Rule by Kleptocracy, brutal suppression of protests, 2 million incarcerated, Turkey-Shoot rights under the 2nd Amendment.... Less than one homicide per year by British police compared with 950 by U.S. police in 2015 alone, ....
Need I continue?
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Apples to oranges.
Our country is great. Trying to denigrate it because your sensibilities ore offended is just a petty action on your part.
What you call brutal, I call necessary. What you call extraordinary rendition, I call terrorism curbed. 2 million incarcerated for disobeying the law, gee, go figure. 2nd amendment - Law abiding people are not the ones killing each other (see above for what happens to them).
Your arguments are emotional, not logical. Therefore, invalid.
Our country is great. Trying to denigrate it because your sensibilities ore offended is just a petty action on your part.
What you call brutal, I call necessary. What you call extraordinary rendition, I call terrorism curbed. 2 million incarcerated for disobeying the law, gee, go figure. 2nd amendment - Law abiding people are not the ones killing each other (see above for what happens to them).
Your arguments are emotional, not logical. Therefore, invalid.
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"I don't think it's a softening" - 8/26
"Oh, there’s softening." "I think you’re going to see there’s really quite a bit of softening." - 9/1
"Oh, there’s softening." "I think you’re going to see there’s really quite a bit of softening." - 9/1
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