I don't really find this survey very meaningful, for a number of reasons. It would be more insightful if they highlighted the number of "NONE' versus "all 5 friends." If you think about it, college is 4 years of your life, typically away from home. Many people join sororities or fraternities or simply have the same roommates for the duration. That adds up to an immeasurable amount of time with the same people for 4 years. If you haven't killed each other by the end, then at least 1 of those people should probably be one of your closest friends. Likewise, if you grew up somewhere without a local 4 year college, the people in your age group are likely in the same situation as you. I think it has a lot more to do with a vicinity factor than a preference for more educated/un-educated people.
11
Not a class issue per se, but level of colloquy; the poorly informed are oft consumed by parlous ideology & bizarre notions [e.g., vaccines cause autism]; only the 99.99th %-ile is usually interesting or has anything substantial to say beyond bromides...most people don't immerse themselves daily in the major arts & sciences [young parents & reform activists are excused].
5
I wish we could do a study of people who are stuck in the past versus those who change and grow with the times. That's a real divide that cuts across politics and class, including education. Those are the people who scare me, whether they are liberals caught in some 1970 moment or conservatives still dreaming of 1965.
17
What messes up this sort of social study are churches. I have dozens of friends who didn't follow me to grad school but that makes zero difference in our relationships or our outlooks.
But where do friends even discuss these educational achievements? Outside of mt few grad school buddies, I have never discussed degrees with anyone outside of the human resources world.
But where do friends even discuss these educational achievements? Outside of mt few grad school buddies, I have never discussed degrees with anyone outside of the human resources world.
7
Nobody mentions degrees, but the wise & responsible talk about issues.
7
That doesn't address gender as few older women of any class would have stayed through college, maybe one year. And the draft lured many of the men away from college. This is useless without their ages.
3
The article presents results which show the level of insularity among the targeted population. Gender and age may certainly be important in helping to understand some of the underlying causes for the insularity the article reveals. However, to say that the analysis is useless is hyperbolic.
One thing which could have enhanced the conclusions would have been to include unregistered voters as they makeup approximately 35% of the eligible population.
One thing which could have enhanced the conclusions would have been to include unregistered voters as they makeup approximately 35% of the eligible population.
4
Define 'older women' - I can name dozens who not only graduated from college but got graduate degrees as well. Age isn't what this is about.
6
Why is this a surprise, or an area of investigation? Of course, like-minded people tend to group together. Why would someone who thinks Trump is insane hang out with a supporter; or the same for Hillary? I particularly object to the word "insularity," which is defined, "ignorance of or lack of interest in cultures, ideas, or peoples outside one's own experience." I came from a working class family, the first in the extended family to go to college. However, even as a product of public schools, I managed to attend three "elite" institutions, Emory, Johns Hopkins, and Harvard. I've lived on $4000 a year and food stamps. I understand what it means to be poor. That said, I also respect intelligence, education, and ambition. I tend to revolve in their orbits. I do NOT respect close-mindedness, bigotry, or a disrespect for authentic authority.
In my career, I've worked with many types. I've been friends with the honest, hard-working class types, as well as the educated or over-educated ones. The people I most respect, and want to be friends with are the most tolerant, intelligent, open-minded ones, who can find a compromise with those with whom they may disagree.
In my career, I've worked with many types. I've been friends with the honest, hard-working class types, as well as the educated or over-educated ones. The people I most respect, and want to be friends with are the most tolerant, intelligent, open-minded ones, who can find a compromise with those with whom they may disagree.
19
Never in almost 90 years have aye met the 'over-educated' sub-type...who are these masters of all arts & disciplines?
3
Mr. Darlin,
Your article engaged my interest and made me think about the roles of online communities as potential bridges. I have a postgraduate degree, and my husband did not graduate from high school or pursue further formal education. (He was an electrician apprentice, going into the same field as his father.) We are also very different in our ages; I'm in my forties, and he is in his early sixties. We met online through America Online many years ago now. America Online allowed us to connect even though our "stats" differ; I don't see how we would have connected without the online community. I'm so thankful that AOL brought us together. I'm sooo in love still after many years now. Thank you for promoting reflection in your readers. :) I like this article.
Your article engaged my interest and made me think about the roles of online communities as potential bridges. I have a postgraduate degree, and my husband did not graduate from high school or pursue further formal education. (He was an electrician apprentice, going into the same field as his father.) We are also very different in our ages; I'm in my forties, and he is in his early sixties. We met online through America Online many years ago now. America Online allowed us to connect even though our "stats" differ; I don't see how we would have connected without the online community. I'm so thankful that AOL brought us together. I'm sooo in love still after many years now. Thank you for promoting reflection in your readers. :) I like this article.
6
Really? what do you talk about [unless spouse is a compulsive reader]?
3
Many times the class divide begins with birth and continues threw out ones life. The ugly truth is we do not want to dirty one selves by what is considered inferior yet we know better. This is very unfortunate and only reinforces that great divide of the liberal elite tag verses angry Trump lower income voters. The circumstances as cultural environment and again income of ones family will usually determined who will get the degree and who will not. Having been raised in a small town and later living in NYC one can see this quite clear which is of course very troublesome and we choose our friends as such wanting to belong in a group.
One of the ironies of the last 40 years is that the end of the draft in the US ensured that far fewer Americans would ever have to go live among those that were different. As an Air Force wife in the 1960s my world was greatly widened in terms of class, education, race, and political perspective. Over the years I've had friends from a variety of backgrounds, and even some with significantly different political views. What they all share is an interest in people and the broader world.
15
Who cares?
I work with a very diverse group of people. If I want to socialize outside of work with people who share my interests, why is that a problem?
I work with a very diverse group of people. If I want to socialize outside of work with people who share my interests, why is that a problem?
7
Proximity is the key factor that conduces to friendship.
America's materialistic culture atomized the population. There is a kind of perpetual diaspora. Moreover, relationships end up being constrained by unnatural barriers, like rules that dictate whether employees can fraternize with each other or professionals with customers or whatever.
I'm belatedly writing this post because I just found out my barber, a man about my own age, died unexpectedly. He was a very clean living chap, smart and personable.
Last time I was there, he told me he was in shock, facing a recent cancer diagnosis and scheduled to start treatment the next day. The prognosis was good, he said, but I could see how worried he was.
I researched his situation for my own peace of mind and had been worrying about him ever since. I'd been avoiding a haircut because I did not want to go until I figured he'd be over the worst.
I knew him very well and knew that he had a very solid support system.
I also knew that although we were on very friendly terms, he was careful to maintain a professional distance from the customers of the business, one he owned.
My wife heard the news that he died, today, by chance.
He opened his shop down the street from my house shortly after I moved into town over thirty years ago and so I've known him all that time.
Super nice, a very fine gentleman.
Yet, our friendship was purely contingent on a commercial relationship. He would likely not have considered me a friend, yet...???
America's materialistic culture atomized the population. There is a kind of perpetual diaspora. Moreover, relationships end up being constrained by unnatural barriers, like rules that dictate whether employees can fraternize with each other or professionals with customers or whatever.
I'm belatedly writing this post because I just found out my barber, a man about my own age, died unexpectedly. He was a very clean living chap, smart and personable.
Last time I was there, he told me he was in shock, facing a recent cancer diagnosis and scheduled to start treatment the next day. The prognosis was good, he said, but I could see how worried he was.
I researched his situation for my own peace of mind and had been worrying about him ever since. I'd been avoiding a haircut because I did not want to go until I figured he'd be over the worst.
I knew him very well and knew that he had a very solid support system.
I also knew that although we were on very friendly terms, he was careful to maintain a professional distance from the customers of the business, one he owned.
My wife heard the news that he died, today, by chance.
He opened his shop down the street from my house shortly after I moved into town over thirty years ago and so I've known him all that time.
Super nice, a very fine gentleman.
Yet, our friendship was purely contingent on a commercial relationship. He would likely not have considered me a friend, yet...???
11
A lot of people commenting are educated liberals rationalizing why their friends are also educated liberals. The article is just reporting facts: there is not a lot of diversity among educated people. If ithe article needs a response, then educated liberals should explain why diversity is only good medicine for uneducated while people.
7
If you are going to tell us all the ways in which we self sort and segregate ourselves, then also tell us the ways in which we don't, so we will know how to come together and break this self reinforcing cycle.
6
Have 4 year degree. Started MS but had to quit due to illness.
I don't know about many of my friends and some of my in-laws and I never ask. Not having a college degree is a touchy subject for some people and, while I'm not the most diplomatic person, I have no desire to make anyone feel bad about it.
I don't know about many of my friends and some of my in-laws and I never ask. Not having a college degree is a touchy subject for some people and, while I'm not the most diplomatic person, I have no desire to make anyone feel bad about it.
4
There is another factor unmentioned here. It involves income which means who you work with and where you live factor into friendships.
7
Does a "question about friends reveal a lot about class divides"?
When asked about "my closest friends", a small, select, long-standing group of individuals comes to mind. By close, I mean those that I know well, trust deeply, share freely with, and with whom I've had interaction for a long time.
For most of us, that's not a lot of persons.
Recent research has revealed that those that we label "close" or "best" friends are a small group all of our lives, but even smaller as we age.
But, my closest friends are only a slim slice of the people near and dear to me, the people I love, the people I know, the people I work with, live near to, play with, rely on, enjoy and care about.
"Close friends" does not include friends who do not make the "closest" cut, neighbors, classmates, colleagues, and, so important, family members!
My own family, as for many, is a loving, exasperating, dear, and irritating hodgepodge of educations, experiences, religions, politics, nationalities, incomes, skills, and personalities.
Don't get me started on the rest of the folks in my life!
Using a handful of broad attributes of one's "close friends" as a barometer of the degree to which that person is connected to, influenced by, and involved with "different" others is problematic.
Also the attributes here are quite superficial. Lots hold college degrees, lots do not, and lots belong to one or another party.
That doesn't tell me much about the person!
When asked about "my closest friends", a small, select, long-standing group of individuals comes to mind. By close, I mean those that I know well, trust deeply, share freely with, and with whom I've had interaction for a long time.
For most of us, that's not a lot of persons.
Recent research has revealed that those that we label "close" or "best" friends are a small group all of our lives, but even smaller as we age.
But, my closest friends are only a slim slice of the people near and dear to me, the people I love, the people I know, the people I work with, live near to, play with, rely on, enjoy and care about.
"Close friends" does not include friends who do not make the "closest" cut, neighbors, classmates, colleagues, and, so important, family members!
My own family, as for many, is a loving, exasperating, dear, and irritating hodgepodge of educations, experiences, religions, politics, nationalities, incomes, skills, and personalities.
Don't get me started on the rest of the folks in my life!
Using a handful of broad attributes of one's "close friends" as a barometer of the degree to which that person is connected to, influenced by, and involved with "different" others is problematic.
Also the attributes here are quite superficial. Lots hold college degrees, lots do not, and lots belong to one or another party.
That doesn't tell me much about the person!
8
I have a 4 year degree and am a fiscally conservative Democrat - some people accuse me of being a closet Republican. Of my 5 closest friends 3 are PHDs and one, a Masters. One is Russian, one is English, the other three are American, all exceedingly well travelled with one having grown up in SE Asia and the Middle East. They are all democrats. As a group, I find that we each embrace humanity in all its circumstances. We strive to improve ourselves and our fellow humans and to progress and fix the world as we can . So much for isolation and class. We are looking and acting forward.
6
Been my experience that individuals willing to engage with others, who are innately curious, and delight in daily conversations with fellow humans tend to have and enjoy many friends with a variety of educational backgrounds.
Five, six, or more years of institutional academics and then "professional" associations and career that follow can be more isolating than one might imagine. Perhaps why Truman when home walked the streets, talked to his neighbors, and mowed the lawn himself.
Five, six, or more years of institutional academics and then "professional" associations and career that follow can be more isolating than one might imagine. Perhaps why Truman when home walked the streets, talked to his neighbors, and mowed the lawn himself.
13
I have been aware of this "bubble of like-minded/similar friends" trend in my personal life for quite some time and I've never been happy about it. However, I also haven't found a solution for it. One is a problem of access. People of similar backgrounds and interests are more likely to bump into each other and socialize. But an even bigger problem is how to cross that divide socially---when I do bump shoulders with people who are different from me demographically, I have difficulty finding common ground to build a relationship and friendship. I feel very awkward---not because I don't want to be their friend, but because I don't know how to. I think I also feel stereotype threat---like they're going to think I'm X,Y,Z because of my class, education, race, etc. which makes me even more socially paralyzed.
14
LYs R.
Very well stated, it is difficult to know how to
cross that divide, socially, finding common ground to build
a relationship.
Very well stated, it is difficult to know how to
cross that divide, socially, finding common ground to build
a relationship.
4
I will not be made to feel bad because I don't have friends who didn't go to college and only one who doesn't share my progressive Democratic views.
I want to associate with smart people who have what I think are the beliefs, desires and skills that will move our country and communities ahead in a positive way.
I won't be made to feel bad for not having friends who are anti-abortion, anti-immigrant, anti-science and anti-social justice. That is the path to ruin for any society.
So call me insular--and proud of it.
I want to associate with smart people who have what I think are the beliefs, desires and skills that will move our country and communities ahead in a positive way.
I won't be made to feel bad for not having friends who are anti-abortion, anti-immigrant, anti-science and anti-social justice. That is the path to ruin for any society.
So call me insular--and proud of it.
38
What I'm getting from this article and statistics is that we need to push ourselves out of our social bubbles more. It's easy to complain that less educated acquaintances aren't people you want to interact with because of their ignorance or because they hold opposing political views, but how are we supposed to function as a democratic nation if we don't engage with those who aren't the same as us? At its most basic level, democracy starts with the interactions we pursue on a daily basis. It's how we change the opinions of others and have our own worldviews improved. Your voice may not matter on a national level unless you're very wealthy or hold a position in government, but on the individual level you can and should shape the views around you and allow your own views to be improved by others. It gives us all a voice and that is democracy. The problem with insularity is that it confines your voice only to those who hold similar views to yourself. Surrounded by those who agree with you already, sharing your views becomes an act of fitting in rather than an act of democracy and sharing.
Like those who only vote every four years for president and ignore local elections, the individuals who only interact with people who share their opinions are ignorant, closed off, and as such contribute to the weakening of American democracy.
Like those who only vote every four years for president and ignore local elections, the individuals who only interact with people who share their opinions are ignorant, closed off, and as such contribute to the weakening of American democracy.
6
We can certainly "interact" with people with different views. But that doesn't mean we want them as "friends."
Democracy doesn't necessitate loving everyone -- or even liking everyone.
Democracy doesn't necessitate loving everyone -- or even liking everyone.
8
I'm sure there are others who, like me, made our closest friends in college. Of my five closest friends, four graduated, one did not. My high-school friends who did not go to college I didn't really keep up with--they stayed home, I left, then my family left, and I had no reason to ever go back. My closest HS friends I never spoke to again once I left home in '89.
It's not that I'm convinced the BA's and BFA's and MA's and JD's my friends and I have make us superior human beings and we superiors must stick together, it's just sheer circumstance; we were thrown together, and together we've stayed.
It's not that I'm convinced the BA's and BFA's and MA's and JD's my friends and I have make us superior human beings and we superiors must stick together, it's just sheer circumstance; we were thrown together, and together we've stayed.
11
Despite some of the weaknesses (and predictability) pointed out by other commentators, this article did make me realize that what I think of as a quite diverse set of close friends (coming from a wide spectrum of racial, ethnic and class backgrounds, Democrats and moderate Republicans, LGBT and straight, wealthy and financially struggling) are not as diverse as I thought. All have college degrees; most have post-graduate degrees. That, in my life at least, seems to be the relevant divide and the relevant blind spot.
3
I grew up in Carol City, near Miami, in the 60's. We moved when I was 12, when the drive-by shootings started. My dad was a firefighter for Miami.
My 3 sisters and I have advanced degrees: 2 lawyers, a doctor and a CPA. My parents grew up in Brooklyn and The Bronx and didn't finish high school.
My dad fought in WWII and mom worked for the phone company until they met at a dance, fell in love ("Your father is such a good dancer!") and got married. They moved to Carol City, after my oldest sister was born in Queens.
I am a trial attorney and I represent employees. Sometimes I make a lot of money. We live in an Oceanside community. All our neighbors are Republicans. Fellow Democrats are hard to come by. Many of my friends are Republicans or Independents. We respect each other's viewpoints and mostly avoid talking about stuff that we already know we disagree on.
I will always be working-class in my mind. I do not see that as a bad thing. I readily identify with people who work hard for a living and don't have much to show for it. I also don't judge them for their biases. I am very lucky and I know it.
I just wish that my son had the same opportunities for educational and economic advancement today that I had growing up 50 years ago. In November, I will be voting for Hillary Clinton.
My 3 sisters and I have advanced degrees: 2 lawyers, a doctor and a CPA. My parents grew up in Brooklyn and The Bronx and didn't finish high school.
My dad fought in WWII and mom worked for the phone company until they met at a dance, fell in love ("Your father is such a good dancer!") and got married. They moved to Carol City, after my oldest sister was born in Queens.
I am a trial attorney and I represent employees. Sometimes I make a lot of money. We live in an Oceanside community. All our neighbors are Republicans. Fellow Democrats are hard to come by. Many of my friends are Republicans or Independents. We respect each other's viewpoints and mostly avoid talking about stuff that we already know we disagree on.
I will always be working-class in my mind. I do not see that as a bad thing. I readily identify with people who work hard for a living and don't have much to show for it. I also don't judge them for their biases. I am very lucky and I know it.
I just wish that my son had the same opportunities for educational and economic advancement today that I had growing up 50 years ago. In November, I will be voting for Hillary Clinton.
34
Ok, is it just me, that doesn't understand some parts of this article? "Thirty-six percent of blacks say all of their five closest friends are black, and 31 percent say none of their five closest friends are white" When somebody states that ALL of their five closest friends are black...one can assume NONE are white, right?
Who was the editor of this article?
Who was the editor of this article?
3
I guess it's just not Black or White.
5
Lucy: Don't forget there are also Asians and Hispanics. While "Hispanic" is not a race (a meaningless term anyway), many don't identify as either white or black. To sum up: it is possible that the article is correct as written; it's also possible that it's bad editing. ¿Quién sabe?
5
I guess you are right. It is funny that scenario didn't occur to me even though I am Hispanic (born and raised, just the last 20 ys in the US). That was the only statistic that didn't include a graph, so, as you said. nobody knows and Mr. Darlin doesn't clarify it.
2
This article's reporting on the stats does not match the graphic.
4
these data don't support the text. If 35% of college educated people have 5 friends who are also college educated, doesn't that mean that 65% of their friends don't meet that criterion???
5
The barroom is a near-perfect venue for sorting people. Though, theoretically, anyone can walk into any bar, the clientele tend to be very finely sorted on the spectrum of civilized-to-feral. It does not take long for a person to figure out whether they "belong" or not.
Who needs statisticians?
Who needs statisticians?
4
You have friends you feel good around and that means people similar to you. It is not that you get all friends only in college but that you loose old friends on the way as you mentaly grow in different directions.
I had quite a few good primary school friends who did not continue schooling. We had been friends in primary school but later with my education and just growing up changing my worldview I also changed preference for what kind of people I like to be around.
And it really has nothing to do with schooling but with inherited mental capabilities. Schooling usually just reflects this.
We have to be honest that not much can be done about bridging the influence of inherited mental capabilities. This is never written about when dealing with inequalty but it is very important part of it. You just can't make people more or less smart as they are no matter how you change their environment.
I had quite a few good primary school friends who did not continue schooling. We had been friends in primary school but later with my education and just growing up changing my worldview I also changed preference for what kind of people I like to be around.
And it really has nothing to do with schooling but with inherited mental capabilities. Schooling usually just reflects this.
We have to be honest that not much can be done about bridging the influence of inherited mental capabilities. This is never written about when dealing with inequalty but it is very important part of it. You just can't make people more or less smart as they are no matter how you change their environment.
12
Call a spade a spade. If you have higher education, it is not a very rewarding experience to hang out with people who have barely high school level education. Especially if they have strong opinions and are ideologically impervious to alternative viewpoints, as so many seem to be. Personally, I would rather self-segregate.
33
"Rewarding experience," JPM, is what friendship is all about. Thanks!
4
That's been my experience as well. I grew up in a Midwestern family where no one of my close relatives had gone to college, let alone high school for some of them. Because of the low cost of education back in the day I was able to get a college degree from a big university and much later, a post-graduate degree. Once I moved to a big city when I went home to visit I felt like a fish out of water. Not that I felt superior, just different. I couldn't relate to the lack of curiosity on the part of many people about the outside world. Their worlds comprised of their jobs and their families. Most of them didn't have college degrees. They accepted conventional wisdom on a variety of subjects, never questioning. So, yes, I prefer to be around liberal, educated people, especially those who have compassion and care about their fellow human beings. I can't see where that is a negative.
6
The question that gives the most insight into meaningful/social/political divides still remains: "Do you know anyone who has serve in the military within the last 20-25 years? ... or ... Are you friends with any family that has a relative under thirty who is serving in the military, or who has served in the military?
6
Was this article written by a computer program? The text doesn't seem sensitive to the meaning of the categories or the percentages. Instead, it is mostly "group A has x% of embers with none of their closest friends from group b." If we redo the study to find that 30% of VW owners have no friends that drive Asian cars, that 40% of widowed men have no closest friends with a bird as a pet, and that 50% of preteen girls have no closest adult friend, would we have learned something more or less important than we learn from this article?
8
It may be a way to assess why so many people are voting for Trump. Whether the 'White and Black Vote' is divided. A 'friendly' way to determine why America is about to fall on its crown. No mention of the age factor here either, not that we become wiser as we mature. With some certainty, it is not about the Lonely Hearts Club.
1
It is interesting to see that many of the comments reflect the main theme of the story: people with college degree do think that people with college degrees are better.
Like other elites, by and large, we fail to see the problems with our own class.
I have plenty of personal examples:
. I believe in global warming and policies of reducing it but due to air travel (both for work and for pleasure) I pollute much more than most of my non college graduate friends (better than Al Gore and his private plane but still).
If you didn't know, one trans-atlantic flight pollutes as much as one year of commuting to work by car.
. I am strong supporter of universal health care and limiting patents, yet I have spent much of my professional life in organizations that made a lot of money from patents .
. I believe that there are a lot of smart and hard working people out there, yet my job is protected by very high requirements in both formal education and specialization.
It would have felt so much better to know I am pretty well off because I am actually a better/smarter person than those non-college-graduates.
Like other elites, by and large, we fail to see the problems with our own class.
I have plenty of personal examples:
. I believe in global warming and policies of reducing it but due to air travel (both for work and for pleasure) I pollute much more than most of my non college graduate friends (better than Al Gore and his private plane but still).
If you didn't know, one trans-atlantic flight pollutes as much as one year of commuting to work by car.
. I am strong supporter of universal health care and limiting patents, yet I have spent much of my professional life in organizations that made a lot of money from patents .
. I believe that there are a lot of smart and hard working people out there, yet my job is protected by very high requirements in both formal education and specialization.
It would have felt so much better to know I am pretty well off because I am actually a better/smarter person than those non-college-graduates.
22
The name of the phenomenon you've so neatly described here is *hypocrisy*.
6
I don't think people with college degrees are "better." I am not "elite" -- I am intelligent. And want to talk about things with other equally intelligent people; most particularly, with people who share my tastes in art, philosophy, politics.
For most of my life, I didn't have a college degree -- no one knew that. I worked as a copywriter, and sometimes as an account executive, in public relations and advertising; no one ever asked to see my academic credentials. All of my friends were college graduates.
Folks stick with like folks. It's not a matter of better; but it certainly is a matter of smart and not smart.
For most of my life, I didn't have a college degree -- no one knew that. I worked as a copywriter, and sometimes as an account executive, in public relations and advertising; no one ever asked to see my academic credentials. All of my friends were college graduates.
Folks stick with like folks. It's not a matter of better; but it certainly is a matter of smart and not smart.
16
Both of my grandparents on my mothers side grew up relativity poor, but they both won scholarships to an elite college. For my grandmother especially this meant her friends were all supremely wealthy and from families that had sent children to college for decades (that's who sent girls to college in 1921). This set up a dynamic where college education was a given. I was no more likely to skip college than I was to not go to grade school. I have no family members who didn't earn at least a bachelors degree. So it's not surprising the same is true for my friends.
9
and here we go again trying to make general assumptions based on false choices. while the results are somewhat thought provoking, they cant be given weight b/c they're based on illusions. like the "professional" writer who wrote "a like" instead of "alike". what, no English requirement at your school? was it that "professional" dare I say even "elitist". what a joke.
the false choices are these;
1. it assumes that a 4 year degree is some sort of achievement. wrong. in fact especially in the last 15-20 years, 2/3 of college degrees are about this close to useless. target wants "college educated professionals". say what? it takes a sheepskin to stock shelves in a discount store? what I think you use "college educated" as a proxy for is are you white collar and work in an air conditioned office staring at a screen and "collaborating" all day or do you real work?
2. here we go again when talking about race, we really mean "black". not a word about hispanics. no status updates on asians. any of you know any folks whose forefathers were eskimo? aw, who gives a rats patootie! we're only speaking about black folks. THATS the measure of "race". its a joke when folks only see things literally in "black and white".
this is a great example of how you guys so missed the election this time. theres millions of us non-office types who cant stand the hipster, foodie, snobby office types we're so much better educated than. and I have an advanced engineering degree. as if that matters.
the false choices are these;
1. it assumes that a 4 year degree is some sort of achievement. wrong. in fact especially in the last 15-20 years, 2/3 of college degrees are about this close to useless. target wants "college educated professionals". say what? it takes a sheepskin to stock shelves in a discount store? what I think you use "college educated" as a proxy for is are you white collar and work in an air conditioned office staring at a screen and "collaborating" all day or do you real work?
2. here we go again when talking about race, we really mean "black". not a word about hispanics. no status updates on asians. any of you know any folks whose forefathers were eskimo? aw, who gives a rats patootie! we're only speaking about black folks. THATS the measure of "race". its a joke when folks only see things literally in "black and white".
this is a great example of how you guys so missed the election this time. theres millions of us non-office types who cant stand the hipster, foodie, snobby office types we're so much better educated than. and I have an advanced engineering degree. as if that matters.
3
It seems while you were too busy calling out other people's less-than-perfect English, you forgot to use apostrophes and capital letters where they are called for. But unlike you, I'll give you the benefit of doubt that the mistakes were a result of typing too fast and posting without checking. The machines don't do grammar and syntax yet, you know?
4
Many people have dearest friends who share their political views and dearest family who do not. Or at least that is the case for many people I know. Why not ask about family as well as friends?
4
I have family -- including two sisters -- who are not by a long shot dearest because they are on the other side of my political and philosophical views. Our tastes in everything from food to music and art also don't mesh.
What does "dearest" mean when you can't stand what a person says and does?
What does "dearest" mean when you can't stand what a person says and does?
4
Where you grew up has a place in status levels too. Forget my education; I'm just glad I'm a northeastern city boy from New Haven, Connecticut and deeply glad I'm not from Harlan County, Kentucky (negatively depicted in no uncertain terms in the superb TV show "Justified" and J.D. Vance's recent book "Hillbilly Elegy") or anywhere else in the southern Appalachian hills and "hollers." It doesn't mean I look down on all those people. The highly articulate and intelligent Ashley Judd is from a Kentucky holler. Hey--I'm just sayin.' It is what it is.
2
This practice starts as cliques in High School by insecure adolescents and continues into adulthood to feed a need for security in a belief system. Aka, "Birds of a feather flock together".
4
I'm shocked it's only 29%. I would have expected more like 75-80%.
2
How do these pollsters rate people as Democrats or Republicans?
Do they ask "Are you a paying member of the Republican Party?"
Or
"Do you donate money to the Republican party?"
Or
"Do you typically vote a stright Republican ticket?"
Or
"Do you lean Republican?"
Where is the cut between one of those, the equivalent with "Demorrat",
with "Independent" in between.
There is no way to "join" Independent.
Very very very few are actual members, and few give money.
"Where's the cut?"
Do they ask "Are you a paying member of the Republican Party?"
Or
"Do you donate money to the Republican party?"
Or
"Do you typically vote a stright Republican ticket?"
Or
"Do you lean Republican?"
Where is the cut between one of those, the equivalent with "Demorrat",
with "Independent" in between.
There is no way to "join" Independent.
Very very very few are actual members, and few give money.
"Where's the cut?"
2
What would you expect?
I met most of my friends at work. The minimum job requirement is an engineering degree. We do things together on weekends.
I really cannot relate to uneducated people.
I met most of my friends at work. The minimum job requirement is an engineering degree. We do things together on weekends.
I really cannot relate to uneducated people.
8
What you have a degree in also contributes to income disparity. I have a degree in theater, earned thirty years ago. We were elite students, admitted to an exclusive program that cut half the class after the first year and ultimately graduated only fifteen people a year. We worked hard, had strenuous classes from 9 to 4, then returned to school for rehearsals and tech work from 6 to 11, five days a week, throughout the entire school year. I graduated summa cum laude and was on the dean's list nearly every semester.
Most of us no longer work in the arts. Of the few of us who do, most now need second jobs to get through every month. The jobs in the arts that used to exist when I was a kid have dried up, thanks to massive defunding of the arts everywhere. We used to be able to get by on acting jobs, but rents are unaffordable now, so many are struggling to juggle lousy day jobs with temporary assignments and freelance work. Everyone cobbles together a living, but hardly any of us can work full time in jobs we are good at and have the talent for. We are intellectual elites, but outcasts from the economy. And always ignored by statistics!
Most of us no longer work in the arts. Of the few of us who do, most now need second jobs to get through every month. The jobs in the arts that used to exist when I was a kid have dried up, thanks to massive defunding of the arts everywhere. We used to be able to get by on acting jobs, but rents are unaffordable now, so many are struggling to juggle lousy day jobs with temporary assignments and freelance work. Everyone cobbles together a living, but hardly any of us can work full time in jobs we are good at and have the talent for. We are intellectual elites, but outcasts from the economy. And always ignored by statistics!
6
First of all, the text of the article gives numbers that are clearly different than the charts. Which is correct?
Second, it is not hard to imagine that when one spends 4 to 7 of one's formative years at a college, one's friends will be found there.
Second, it is not hard to imagine that when one spends 4 to 7 of one's formative years at a college, one's friends will be found there.
2
I don't get it. These numbers aren't very impressive. Since very high percentages of respondents claim to have at least one very close friend who is unlike them according to all of these criteria, it seems like the data support the opposite conclusion: American social circles are far more integrated than you'd think.
5
I have 0 friends who do not have at least a college degree, but that is because I met all of the people I now consider close friends at some point in the 11 years I spent in college, grad school, and law school.
7
This is a "Dog Bites Man" study.
A true waste of space for the NYTimes.
There is nothing new in this report. Any person, with or without a degree could have predicted these results. Probably a few dolphins would have done just fine also.
A true waste of space for the NYTimes.
There is nothing new in this report. Any person, with or without a degree could have predicted these results. Probably a few dolphins would have done just fine also.
7
So what you're telling me is that people who attend college make some of their closest friends in college? And people who go to college longer have more close friends from that time in their lives? Wow. The obvious is pretty obvious in this case.
10
I'm not particular to have friends on any education level. That's paramount as friends are measured by trust, not status.
6
...such research makes one wonder why social engineering still (unsuccessfully) occurs - more aggressively now than ever. The Obama Administration is inserting poor families into upscale neighborhoods in Westchester which is not going to change either party very much if at all on so many levels. Folks want to socialize with people like themselves. Such forced interactions seems to create more friction than enlightenment.
3
It's strange. I worked in an institution of higher eduction for many years. Because I have a self-taught skill that is technical in nature, and because I have a fairly good vocabulary, none of my co-workers realized that I had not finished my four-year degree and I was given many opportunities that are usually reserved for people with an advanced education. Almost all of my co-workers had advanced degrees, and many of them were MDs. A degree tends to be assumed by many in that environment and, since nobody asked, I never mentioned it.
Now that I'm thinking about it, I realize that I can't name a single friend who doesn't have a degree. I guess I'm something of an anomaly.
Now that I'm thinking about it, I realize that I can't name a single friend who doesn't have a degree. I guess I'm something of an anomaly.
11
Perhaps this does not count. One of my friends is Irish, with a working-class background, highly educated on scholarship (professional). Another is Jamaican, she started working young, and graduated from Baruch attending evening courses (professional). My friend from Western Africa and her family rejoiced when one of her daughters became an engineer, a graduate of Berkeley. And an Austrian friend, after graduating from High School in Latin America where she was born, came to work and live in America. Born in New York and raised in France, after passing my Baccalaureate, I took a typing course in London before returning to the States.
Now. A sibling and his American wife are academics, both professors at a well-known college, and getting 'ready to go back to school' for the Fall. All mentioned here are 'Democrats', although I have some Republican friends. Now that I think of it, they are not college graduates and the bond of friendship is not as strong.
My closest friends, whether in possession of a college degree, professionals or general service, what we share in common is our experience in the Humanitarian Community and our politics are not always the same. One may carry a special torch for President Carter, while my oath is pledged to President Obama.
Why do I find American Republicans colder? I guess the people I like best are a pack of bleeding-heart liberals :)
Now. A sibling and his American wife are academics, both professors at a well-known college, and getting 'ready to go back to school' for the Fall. All mentioned here are 'Democrats', although I have some Republican friends. Now that I think of it, they are not college graduates and the bond of friendship is not as strong.
My closest friends, whether in possession of a college degree, professionals or general service, what we share in common is our experience in the Humanitarian Community and our politics are not always the same. One may carry a special torch for President Carter, while my oath is pledged to President Obama.
Why do I find American Republicans colder? I guess the people I like best are a pack of bleeding-heart liberals :)
9
We all seek "a likes" because of comfort and familiarity. My closest friends are all professionals and make a similar income. Otherwise someone would always feel left out if they were unable to do the things that the majority are able to do financially. Awkward.
11
Do you know you sound like a snob? Many college dropout or those that didn't attend college have wonderful lives and health incomes. Welcome to the real world.
9
Good for them, MaryBH, I just don't want to be friends with them. I prefer blondes too.
I was a carpenter for nearly 14 years before a health issue created a need for college. There I encountered institutionalized bias against those who work with hands and heads to a degree that greatly surprised me. Higher learning and higher character do not necessarily go hand in hand and may contribute to the insularity cited in the article.
27
the college educated, quite disgracefully, tend to view the blue collared as troglodytes. Ironically this applies even to those who claim to represent the "working class" (i.e., Marxists).
8
I have a master's degree. I don't think my situation counts. For one, almost all the people I socialize with are without college degrees. But they are creatives, and busy at theiri craft. Two, we are friendly and have conversations but peripheral to each other's lives. There's an age difference (I am old, they are young). We live in the same neighborhood and I go to a lot of creative events. Hence we interact. I like solitude and that's what I do with most of my time.
12
Not to worry. A person with a newly acquired "Bachelor's Degree" is probably the equivalent of a person who earned a high school diploma 50 years ago. Actually the latter is probably more articulate and more intelligent.
30
And *far* more likely to have been able to make a fair living...
Education is nothing but old-fashioned Social Darwinism in neoliberal sheep's clothing. People are really being taken for a ride by the banksters' system of extraction. No one with a real mind belongs in college, today.
Education is nothing but old-fashioned Social Darwinism in neoliberal sheep's clothing. People are really being taken for a ride by the banksters' system of extraction. No one with a real mind belongs in college, today.
12
I work in a high school and I have come to the conclusion that all this hype about college is to keep the college arena running ,but yet the graduates come out with little knowledge but high debt .It is definitely not what it was 40 years ago when I went to high school . we were much more mature ( in Germany ).
5
Try getting a job today walking someone's doggie without a degree.
4
Who has five friends these days?
Oh wait, I have 350 Facebook friends, so...
Oh wait, I have 350 Facebook friends, so...
63
Where one lives has a lot to do with economics, which is linked to educational attainment. How about checking this as a covariate to determine a more realistic picture of the underlying relationship(s).
6
That is clearly part of the class divide, and this article implies as much.
1
1) As mentioned by others, the notion that anyone with a four year degree is a member of the "elite" is absurd.
If you want to fine the real elite, ask this question of people who attended Harvard and Yale. There is a reason every president and every Supreme Court justice of the last 30 years attended one of those institutions, as did the current pending appointment to the Supreme Court, There is your elite.
2) What people believe about their friends beliefs and those friends actual beliefs may be quite different. There are lots of people who think everyone thinks like them.
If you want to fine the real elite, ask this question of people who attended Harvard and Yale. There is a reason every president and every Supreme Court justice of the last 30 years attended one of those institutions, as did the current pending appointment to the Supreme Court, There is your elite.
2) What people believe about their friends beliefs and those friends actual beliefs may be quite different. There are lots of people who think everyone thinks like them.
56
More than 40 years ago I moved to rural Maine, fixed up an old farmhouse, and expected to make friends.
But I was "From Away." And I was unable to hide the fact that I'm an intellectual. Every now and then I'd use a phrase or fancy word that acquaintances who'd never been to college didn't recognize, and they'd assume I was looking down my nose at them.
I'm warm and friendly, but was unable to break through the reverse snobbery. There are few people meaner than someone who's defensive about his or her lack of a college education and/or about living in a very rural area.
I wound up earning a doctorate and making friends among colleagues.
But I was "From Away." And I was unable to hide the fact that I'm an intellectual. Every now and then I'd use a phrase or fancy word that acquaintances who'd never been to college didn't recognize, and they'd assume I was looking down my nose at them.
I'm warm and friendly, but was unable to break through the reverse snobbery. There are few people meaner than someone who's defensive about his or her lack of a college education and/or about living in a very rural area.
I wound up earning a doctorate and making friends among colleagues.
121
@M.L.Chadwick: Years ago, I was at a cocktail party with people whose friendship I'd acquired by luck and proximity and had retained by assiduously avoiding the discussion of absolutely anything I myself might find the slightest bit interesting.
I told one of the other men at the bar that I was thinking about leaving the NYC area and building a house in the mountains, maybe in Vermont, New Hampshire or Maine.
"They'll never accept you," he said.
I smiled, ironically, because I know full well that I've never been accepted anywhere else either. The 'me' who was socially successful was not the real me, but a simulacrum, a mirrored reflection of the people with whom I happened to find myself.
Basically, I simply want to be able to be myself, but, unfortunately, whenever and wherever I've done that, I've quickly found myself feeling vaguely ostracized, much as you did.
I'm happy for you. Finding kindred spirits is not easy in today's world. I tried academia, by the way. Did not work for me...
I told one of the other men at the bar that I was thinking about leaving the NYC area and building a house in the mountains, maybe in Vermont, New Hampshire or Maine.
"They'll never accept you," he said.
I smiled, ironically, because I know full well that I've never been accepted anywhere else either. The 'me' who was socially successful was not the real me, but a simulacrum, a mirrored reflection of the people with whom I happened to find myself.
Basically, I simply want to be able to be myself, but, unfortunately, whenever and wherever I've done that, I've quickly found myself feeling vaguely ostracized, much as you did.
I'm happy for you. Finding kindred spirits is not easy in today's world. I tried academia, by the way. Did not work for me...
36
"The insularity of elites"
Are you defining elites as anyone with a college degree? That would make for a very large elite class, so large that it would redefine what elite actually means.
Furthermore, what's so surprising that people who went to college have friends who went to college? You meet a lot of your friends in college, often including a spouse. Then you go to work in a job that requires a degree so you're around college educated people all day. Some of them become your friends. The same applies to your spouse, and you interact with her friends as well. But this entirely natural and expected social dynamic is presented as a pathology. This piece is just a sop to the anti-intellectual right wing populist notion of purity in ignorance.
What is the answer to the populist insistence that educated people are the destruction of America? Mixing of people of various demographic profiles is a very nice idea, and could lead to better understanding of the plight of our neighbors. But why then do the more educated - the dreaded elite - tend to support active government social policy more than the authentic real American non-elite? Who is caring about whom here? This isn't anything new, of course. I just think the finger is pointing in the wrong direction.
Are you defining elites as anyone with a college degree? That would make for a very large elite class, so large that it would redefine what elite actually means.
Furthermore, what's so surprising that people who went to college have friends who went to college? You meet a lot of your friends in college, often including a spouse. Then you go to work in a job that requires a degree so you're around college educated people all day. Some of them become your friends. The same applies to your spouse, and you interact with her friends as well. But this entirely natural and expected social dynamic is presented as a pathology. This piece is just a sop to the anti-intellectual right wing populist notion of purity in ignorance.
What is the answer to the populist insistence that educated people are the destruction of America? Mixing of people of various demographic profiles is a very nice idea, and could lead to better understanding of the plight of our neighbors. But why then do the more educated - the dreaded elite - tend to support active government social policy more than the authentic real American non-elite? Who is caring about whom here? This isn't anything new, of course. I just think the finger is pointing in the wrong direction.
85
But why then do the more educated - the dreaded elite - tend to support active government social policy more than the authentic real American non-elite?
its because they dont live amongst the "rabble" or they'd think differently. its called limousine liberalism. if ms identity-politics-administrator-pants get the coronation she so wrongly believes she's entitled to because of the reproductive organs she has issued, its gonna explode. she's just like W who thought he was entitled b/c daddy belonged to the "right" country club.
limo liberals are for folks who make enough an extra $30/week in taxes wont be missed and it can be devoted to help "those people" who they care for. along as they agree not to touch them w/o sanitizer in the room. why else would they go so far as to work one day a year in a food pantry or kill themselves "posting to social media" aka slacktivism liberalism. let them eat cake indeed.......
its because they dont live amongst the "rabble" or they'd think differently. its called limousine liberalism. if ms identity-politics-administrator-pants get the coronation she so wrongly believes she's entitled to because of the reproductive organs she has issued, its gonna explode. she's just like W who thought he was entitled b/c daddy belonged to the "right" country club.
limo liberals are for folks who make enough an extra $30/week in taxes wont be missed and it can be devoted to help "those people" who they care for. along as they agree not to touch them w/o sanitizer in the room. why else would they go so far as to work one day a year in a food pantry or kill themselves "posting to social media" aka slacktivism liberalism. let them eat cake indeed.......
2
If going to college makes you a snobby "elite" who only hangs out with other insular "elites" and is out of touch with "real Americans"...why does everyone want their kid to go to college?
I guess they want them to go, but not to act like they have gone.
I guess they want them to go, but not to act like they have gone.
36
Maybe the degree mills are running out of suckers, er, elites...
4
Religion and politics can draw friends and family apart. Especially when it is a contentious election season. I live in a wealthy suburb of Boston, surrounded by friends, rich friendships with folks who have advanced degrees, decades of work experience, dedicated to community service, but we rarely talk about religion and politics. There is one neighbor who hyperventilates at the mention of Trump and even her children are scared for their future because she accidentally discussed it with a friend while the children were listening.
8
Yup, people of all stripes, sizes, classes, creeds, ages, etc. tend to form affinity groups. Mere exposure to others tends to increase liking, and being in (any) similar demographic increases the chances that people will in fact be in proximity to others. Voila! Our friends are like us.
8
I'm surprised it's only 29 percent. We generally meet our friends in school (where we're getting our degrees) and at work (where we go with our degrees). So why isn't it higher?
16
A few people, like me in the 60's were working, caring for children, and taking 2 night classes a semester for many years to get through college. Not only no time to make new friends (the clock is always running on babysitter time), but also nothing in common with other students. They were younger, bragged that their parents would support them as long as they stayed in college, were more interested in drinking and trying to show the teachers how smart they thought themselves to be. Seemed to be at least one in every class who felt his opinion was what we should hear instead of what the teacher was trying to tell us.
My grandmother was illiterate, my parents finished 8th grade and then went to work to help support their families. We were always poor. College was not on anyone's agenda. My best friends are my children, who all have advanced degrees and one neighbor whose background is like mine. AAUW, which I tried to join, was unfriendly. I didn't fit their pattern. I like college educated, blue collar people like me who know what it is to be poor and work hard for everything.
My grandmother was illiterate, my parents finished 8th grade and then went to work to help support their families. We were always poor. College was not on anyone's agenda. My best friends are my children, who all have advanced degrees and one neighbor whose background is like mine. AAUW, which I tried to join, was unfriendly. I didn't fit their pattern. I like college educated, blue collar people like me who know what it is to be poor and work hard for everything.
1
If your hands are not dirty at the end of the day please refrain from commenting on work. What you do is called a "career".
5
Are you saying that if you have a career you don't actually work?
Good career if you can get it.
Good career if you can get it.
20
@dapper: You must've gone to college, as the plebeians of the world sometimes like to say. Fact is, PK is right, in the main. You'd know that if you'd actually learned physics instead of just taking a college course in same. Talking on the phone and/or typing on a computer is not *work*. If technology is such a good productivity tool, why is everyone so busy all the time? Think about it...
3
Look up "career," PK.
Then look at listings for "career opportunities" at your local Dept. of Labor office. You'll find postings for carpenters, auto mechanics, backhoe operators -- and many other dirty-hand jobs.
Then look at listings for "career opportunities" at your local Dept. of Labor office. You'll find postings for carpenters, auto mechanics, backhoe operators -- and many other dirty-hand jobs.
1
I am college-educated and most of my friends are very similar to me. What I have noticed, though, is that people who are able to transcend those natural criteria of education, income, color, or political ideas in their choice of friends seem much more lively, open minded, (and sometimes happier) than those of us who tend to hang around with people similar to ourselves. I can't imitate them but I certainly admire them.
27
I find this column about as useless as the Charles Murray quiz my wife and I both took. Between the two of us, there are 2 undergraduate and 4 graduate degrees we both hold multiple graduate degrees. For myself, 3 of my 5 closest male friends don't have any college at all and 2 of the 5 are hard core Democrats and 2 more are hard core Republican and one independent. My email inbox is dueling parties. On my wife's side, more Democrats and 4 of 5 have college degrees. Besides the 5 closest friends, we have friends ranging across the political and class spectrum from the super poor to the very wealthy. They are just people after all and nothing special and none of them get any differential treatment from us. When we have had a dinner or party at our house, we have had a 20k fast food employee sit next to a business owner with 7 figure income. Why not?
15
I would say that is America :)
1
I worked in section 8 housing for a long time. These people never had friends who were in a much higher socio-economic group then themselves. Occasionally they would have a more affluent relative or someone from a religious organization visit but it was always brief and patronizing.
Rich, educated, smart, young, attractive, happy, healthy, successful and charming are all considered to be positive traits. People gravitate towards people who have more of these traits. Those who have less of them are stuck with each other. The fact is that many of those people find each other unbearable too.
Rich, educated, smart, young, attractive, happy, healthy, successful and charming are all considered to be positive traits. People gravitate towards people who have more of these traits. Those who have less of them are stuck with each other. The fact is that many of those people find each other unbearable too.
12
"Friends With College Degrees
Registered voters were asked how many of their five closest friends have four-year college degrees. The divide was stark."
What's with the bar graphs here?!
What do the lengths of the bars represent?! Why are they all the same?!
Why is there no caption explaining this?!
Plus, the data in the graphs do not match what's in the text!
Some of us here do data analysis and graphing for a living and, after spending 10 minutes on this, we still don't know what you're representing with those bars.
Please update the graph!
Registered voters were asked how many of their five closest friends have four-year college degrees. The divide was stark."
What's with the bar graphs here?!
What do the lengths of the bars represent?! Why are they all the same?!
Why is there no caption explaining this?!
Plus, the data in the graphs do not match what's in the text!
Some of us here do data analysis and graphing for a living and, after spending 10 minutes on this, we still don't know what you're representing with those bars.
Please update the graph!
6
Thank you! I thought I was hallucinating.
3
I have read and re-read this article multiple times today, thinking I was missing something, and highly worried about that as I teach undergraduate research methods in the social sciences. The paragraph beginning "The survey shows that the less educated aren't quite as insular..." is simply not supported by the data, if by insular what is meant is homogenous. The data show that 31% of those without college degrees have totally homogenous close friendships versus 29% of those with college degrees. The differences may not be statistically significant, but neither do the figures show support for the opening statement.
This sort of article is precisely why I think it is so important that my students have some basic grounding in quantitative data analysis, even if they never want to carry out their own research. Frankly, this is why all citizens in a democratic society should have some grounding in data analysis, if only to call one's "bluff."
This sort of article is precisely why I think it is so important that my students have some basic grounding in quantitative data analysis, even if they never want to carry out their own research. Frankly, this is why all citizens in a democratic society should have some grounding in data analysis, if only to call one's "bluff."
7
They bar graphs works, if you spend too much time figuring out how to see past their user unfriendliness.
1
I have a college degree, and only 1 of my 5 closest friends has one. This is part of the reason why I have nuanced views.
8
I think birds of a feather do flock together. The numbers would have been similar if you asked moms with 3 year olds if their closest friends also had three year olds.
14
After reading the 36 responses to date, the 5-6 people who mentioned "birds of a feather" also applies to the readership of the NY Times. I subscribe to both the Washington Post and the NY Times and the difference in the quality of the blogs is stark. There are so many insults and "I'm right and You're wrong" comments in the Post that it is refreshing to read well thought out insightful responses in the Times. I'm in my low 60's and I delivered the Post 50 years ago and have always loved the Post, but my ten years of reading the NY Times showed me how much I was missing in a great newspaper, and no, I don't work for the Times!
76
I love the NYtimes because of its thoughtful comments by readers as well...
6
I know I went down in points when I was told that the American flag hanging from my office wall was “redneck-sized.” Then again, another friend wanted to know why it was so small and thought it was in poor taste to feature the Long Island Ducks alongside.
9
Well, yeah, it's a logical conclusion. I met my closest friends in college, grad school, and in the companies I worked at during my career.
I have some friends and relatives who stopped at high school. I don't look down on them, judge them, or act condescending. But for the life of me, we have nothing to discuss. Completely different wavelength.
I have some friends and relatives who stopped at high school. I don't look down on them, judge them, or act condescending. But for the life of me, we have nothing to discuss. Completely different wavelength.
16
I'm sorry, but this is just another of those bone headed "research projects" with the accompanying "analysis". When will social scientist stop this business of everyone must be the same and if yo are not you are an elites or a racists? People are tribal, always have been and always will be, they tolerate others as long as the are not interfered with. But, we all prefer to hang with our own, and I didn't even need a study to know it is true.
7
So, the vast majority of voters with a college degree have a close friend without one. I didn't expect that, although maybe I should have given how few people get college degrees.
3
The pickup truck question as a dividing line between grads and no-grads is stupid.
Anyone who does equestrian sports (jumpers, dressage, 3-day etc) has bought a pickup (usually big 1 ton) to go with the uber fancy horse trailer
And to do those sports takes very hefty income - the kind earned pretty much only by college grads. A competitive horse for an amateur-owner is easily going to start at $50,000 and go up up up with just the boarding costs north of $12000 a year + training + shows + vet bills.
Some items - like pickups - cross the educational divide.
Anyone who does equestrian sports (jumpers, dressage, 3-day etc) has bought a pickup (usually big 1 ton) to go with the uber fancy horse trailer
And to do those sports takes very hefty income - the kind earned pretty much only by college grads. A competitive horse for an amateur-owner is easily going to start at $50,000 and go up up up with just the boarding costs north of $12000 a year + training + shows + vet bills.
Some items - like pickups - cross the educational divide.
14
True enough pick up trucks have gone main stream, but many communities still ban them .
I've also seen plenty of horses pulled by SUVs, but they might have been dressage
I've also seen plenty of horses pulled by SUVs, but they might have been dressage
1
STEM PhD spouse bought a F350 to carry a camper. Doesn't make him elite or salt of the earth. His best friends are all from work.
This is why I don't believe what anyone says, ever. Everyone lives in a bubble of their own making.
6
I think this says more about who people encounter on a regular basis, where friendships organically form, than who they'd be WILLING to befreind. Most of my friends are people I met in college, graduate school, or work (in a field where the majority have a college degree).
3
So why is it that educated people are 'elites' and 'isolated' if they have never owned a pickup? However, the uneducated are are'mainstream'?
5
Friends? What of family?
Although I would certainly be described as someone in the top one percent by this paper (attorney, living in a wealthy zip code), my own immigrant mother (a secretary) never attended college. And while one sibling is a well-off doctor with a vacation home, another sibling struggled through college, does not own a house, and is having to reinvent and reeducate themselves in a new career approaching middle age because of a series of economic setbacks.
My point is simply that we are not permanently divided or indentured Americans, where rich, poor, and middle class never meet, or trade places. Most Americans families are themselves a patchwork of economic stories and experiences, of both struggles and successes. Some of us rise, others have setbacks or fall, and a generation later everything is up in the air again as oir children now have to make their own way in life.
In the United States there still exists a very thriving and healthy rags-to-riches trajectory. Opportunity abounds, tomorrow the plumber's daughter may very well surpass the investment banker's son, and in many cases within the same family.
From A Not-So-Divided American.
Although I would certainly be described as someone in the top one percent by this paper (attorney, living in a wealthy zip code), my own immigrant mother (a secretary) never attended college. And while one sibling is a well-off doctor with a vacation home, another sibling struggled through college, does not own a house, and is having to reinvent and reeducate themselves in a new career approaching middle age because of a series of economic setbacks.
My point is simply that we are not permanently divided or indentured Americans, where rich, poor, and middle class never meet, or trade places. Most Americans families are themselves a patchwork of economic stories and experiences, of both struggles and successes. Some of us rise, others have setbacks or fall, and a generation later everything is up in the air again as oir children now have to make their own way in life.
In the United States there still exists a very thriving and healthy rags-to-riches trajectory. Opportunity abounds, tomorrow the plumber's daughter may very well surpass the investment banker's son, and in many cases within the same family.
From A Not-So-Divided American.
8
No, everything is not up in the air from generation to generation. You may be a wealthy attorney, but your education is lacking.
There is a body of knowledge on this subject that you can access anytime you like. That knowledge exists independent of political orientation, though it can help inform same.
There is a body of knowledge on this subject that you can access anytime you like. That knowledge exists independent of political orientation, though it can help inform same.
3
I teach in an urban school that is 70% African-American, I get really tired of hearing people say, in response to questions of segregation that "those people choose to live where they live." A not so proud part of our history has included negating choices of where to live and expediting that choice for others.
37
Someone actually felt the need to do a study on this?
What's becoming more clear to people is that it's not racial differences that matter so much as socio-economic differences. A poor white person and a poor black person will have much more in common with each other, versus a rich white person and a poor white person.
What's becoming more clear to people is that it's not racial differences that matter so much as socio-economic differences. A poor white person and a poor black person will have much more in common with each other, versus a rich white person and a poor white person.
5
"A poor white person and a poor black person will have much more in common with each other, versus a rich white person and a poor white person."
Well, that's not exactly so. A rich white person and a poor white person are both white persons. A black person, regardless of his socio-economic status, is not a white person. Consider Barack Obama, for example.
Well, that's not exactly so. A rich white person and a poor white person are both white persons. A black person, regardless of his socio-economic status, is not a white person. Consider Barack Obama, for example.
2
Years ago, as I waited on the train platform with a crowd of commuters every morning in Newark, I recall how the midtown train would pull into the station and the people would surge forward to form little bell-shaped curves around each train door. I, alone, remained where I was, leaning against the railing on the wall. As the people moved into the cars, I watched and waited, then moved to the one that showed evidence of being empty.
Every day was the same...
Group-think and tribal behavior is the norm because the group strategy is nature's most successful one. The geniuses, artists, outliers, rogues and eccentrics of the world matter more than people 'think', however, because those are the only people who are actually doing much original thinking.
The majority are copycats, conformists and joiners who follow the herd.
All of this is highly relevant, today.
Because of the way markets and politics work, the majority rules, so to speak. However, when the group's main strategy fails, it is the ones who took another path who offer hope.
For these reasons, it is critical for the people to protect individual rights, especially when levels of fear are high.
Witch hunts and purges will only accelerate socioeconomic decline.
I am a libertarian...
People on the right tend to assume I am a leftist and people on the left tend to think I am right wing. I am neither and both.
I do my thinking and that thinking covers the entire spectrum, not just the mindless black-and-white extremes.
Every day was the same...
Group-think and tribal behavior is the norm because the group strategy is nature's most successful one. The geniuses, artists, outliers, rogues and eccentrics of the world matter more than people 'think', however, because those are the only people who are actually doing much original thinking.
The majority are copycats, conformists and joiners who follow the herd.
All of this is highly relevant, today.
Because of the way markets and politics work, the majority rules, so to speak. However, when the group's main strategy fails, it is the ones who took another path who offer hope.
For these reasons, it is critical for the people to protect individual rights, especially when levels of fear are high.
Witch hunts and purges will only accelerate socioeconomic decline.
I am a libertarian...
People on the right tend to assume I am a leftist and people on the left tend to think I am right wing. I am neither and both.
I do my thinking and that thinking covers the entire spectrum, not just the mindless black-and-white extremes.
24
I saw poll results a while back that showed most people think most other people are more constrained by conventional wisdom, while most people who responded to the poll think of themselves as independent thinkers. In other words, people like to think of themselves as independent thinkers while thinking of others as hidebound traditionalists on intellectual autopilot.
14
@Sulawesi: Obviously, people generally "think they think" due to the subjective nature of thought. They lack insight and cannot differentiate original thought from mimicry. They think they're better than average lovers, too.
They pick and choose stuff to buy and conflate their choices with having a personal style. They eat peanuts with mayo or whatever and that convinces them they're really, really 'different'.
It is an easy error to make because each and every human being has genuinely unique features. Moreover, everyone is probably capable of becoming an original thinker under conditions that I've theorized will throw the necessary genetic switches, e.g., extreme isolation.
Ask people for details regarding their methods of philosophical inquiry, e.g., if they attempted to falsify self-aggrandizing self-assessments.
Ask them the key epistemic questions.
Ask them to offer evidence from their lives that reveal them to be wholly unconventional.
Ask them about religion because no one with a religion of any kind is likely to be an original thinker.
Of course, there are exceptions to every generalization, which is, in part, my point
They pick and choose stuff to buy and conflate their choices with having a personal style. They eat peanuts with mayo or whatever and that convinces them they're really, really 'different'.
It is an easy error to make because each and every human being has genuinely unique features. Moreover, everyone is probably capable of becoming an original thinker under conditions that I've theorized will throw the necessary genetic switches, e.g., extreme isolation.
Ask people for details regarding their methods of philosophical inquiry, e.g., if they attempted to falsify self-aggrandizing self-assessments.
Ask them the key epistemic questions.
Ask them to offer evidence from their lives that reveal them to be wholly unconventional.
Ask them about religion because no one with a religion of any kind is likely to be an original thinker.
Of course, there are exceptions to every generalization, which is, in part, my point
5
Those purges are how we make an iron bell, steely, unyielding and capable of but one note.
1
My best friend today lived across the hall from me when we were college freshmen in 1971. He stayed one year and left - "too boring". I stayed, got a degree and have been a finance professional ever since. He worked construction for years, eventually ending up in a white collar position at a prestigious institution. In many ways he's a lot smarter than me and he has a range of mechanical skills that I can only envy. We have many common interests and some that the other just doesn't get.
Did I mention that we are still the best of friends?
Did I mention that we are still the best of friends?
57
Part of the American Dream is that our children can have better opportunities than our own. Often this means obtaining a higher educational level. In our current climate, a college degree or beyond is offered as the best possible means toward these ends. How is this then being "elite" if it may offer more opportunities for success?
I'm tired of this characterization. I'm tired of denigrating the very goal than most parents would want for their children. And for many children of this country who are striving to live meaningful, successful, contributing lives, this limited description offers nothing but a confusing mixed message.
I'm tired of this characterization. I'm tired of denigrating the very goal than most parents would want for their children. And for many children of this country who are striving to live meaningful, successful, contributing lives, this limited description offers nothing but a confusing mixed message.
22
First of all, big surprise. We need "research" to tell us this? I'm sure the money could have been better spent. Second, everyone needs to be very skeptical of survey research as being anything more than a very rough picture of some possible phenomenon. Surveys and questionnaires are very unreliable. And, finally, even if surveys do paint a reasonable picture of a phenomenon, they tell us nothing about causation. Neither does correlational research, by the way.
2
Absolutely, the money could've been better spent. Buying wine would be one good way, for example.
4
So the maxim "Birds of a feather flock together" is true then?
20
I was at a picnic the other day and I was the only adult without a PhD.
11
Frightening...next time, run away!
6
I'm a lawyer. Despite this, I have several good friends I've played golf with for many years who never went to college. We have a lot of fun, probably more than we should. One of the guys died from cancer a few years ago, one nearly died from an aortic aneurysm, and one won't quit smoking because it would be a "shock" to his system. They have strong political views, which are anything but liberal. I think I'm the only college grad any of them know, although they all have hundreds of friends. I think they are scared of the future, but they just muddle on, blaming any group that doesn't look like them. They are stuck squarely in 1969, and wish they could turn back the clock. Who can blame them?
43
Why yes, I'd also like to be 47 years younger too.
5
I hate to call out a solid piece, but none of this is exactly new. You can go as far back as 4,000 years and see the same socioeconomic divisions.
14
Most Americans have only two opportunities to meet and get to know people from other backgrounds:
1. in school
2. at work
Is it any wonder that the country is so deeply divided?
1. in school
2. at work
Is it any wonder that the country is so deeply divided?
12
3. in church
4. meeting friends of friends
5. in-laws (i.e. whom - and how often - your siblings marry)
6. special-interest groups (book clubs, investment clubs)
7. striking up a random conversation at the ball game
8. if you have school-aged children, parents of your kids' friends
4. meeting friends of friends
5. in-laws (i.e. whom - and how often - your siblings marry)
6. special-interest groups (book clubs, investment clubs)
7. striking up a random conversation at the ball game
8. if you have school-aged children, parents of your kids' friends
4
I took the quiz, which originated with the American Enterprise Institute and suffers from (how can we put this nicely?) a small amount of confirmation bias.
Apparently my friends in Manhattan and the Jersey suburbs are isolated from the American mainstream because they don't buy pickup trucks. On the other hand, some of my friends commuting in from the Poconos get points for taking long rides on buses.
I guess I'm not in the author's bubble.
Apparently my friends in Manhattan and the Jersey suburbs are isolated from the American mainstream because they don't buy pickup trucks. On the other hand, some of my friends commuting in from the Poconos get points for taking long rides on buses.
I guess I'm not in the author's bubble.
16
Do you count degrees from Trump University?
Seriously, there are different degrees of degrees. My real friends vary in education from high school only to an advanced degree in mathematics, but they're all smart, successful, and inquisitive.
Seriously, there are different degrees of degrees. My real friends vary in education from high school only to an advanced degree in mathematics, but they're all smart, successful, and inquisitive.
11
Friendship is usually among equals in all sorts of categories. The NRA nuts love other nuts, for instance.
15
Absolutely, just like Vegans go to organic Quinoa restaurants (yes there are such things), looking for confirmation from others like them, about their superiority over the rest of mankind.
Just like that.
Just like that.
2
Is this news? How old is the adage, birds of feathers flock together?
8
Birds of a feather flock together. Nothing new there.
6
However, this study is from surveys rather than anecdotes.
I think a more accurate test of inclusiveness would be "how many of your closest friends vote." Not voting is a sign of insularity.
9
Not insularity -- petulance. It is the "my way or the highway" mentality.
4
The erstwhile Soviet Union had elections and most people voted, yet the soviet empire imploded and the ruble collapsed.
In extremis, voting does nothing.
In extremis, voting does nothing.
3
Wow, maybe you should ask some of the 40-45 percent of people of voting age who will not vote in the upcoming election why they don't vote. I assure that you will find quite a variety of reasons that have nothing to do with insularity.
3
I can not fathom why there is the constant "surprise" at study after study that "likes tend to want to be with likes". The venue does not matter. People will self ghettoize. It is a comfort zone not easily penetrated.
The best that can be realistically obtained is mutual respect at all times and the acceptance of all at venues/events/occasions which affect the larger group (offices, sporting events, etc.).
The best that can be realistically obtained is mutual respect at all times and the acceptance of all at venues/events/occasions which affect the larger group (offices, sporting events, etc.).
9
I grew up in a working class area and my husband and I are both the first in our families to earn advance degrees. I have little in common with the people with whom I was raised and consider that a good thing. They stayed in the neighborhood, adamantly refused to change or grow, didn't apply themselves in school and view anyone who did with suspicion. They have largely fallen into the same dysfunctional patterns as their parents and too many struggle with chemical dependency. Instead of seeking actual knowledge or employing reason, they avoid anything that challenges their prejudices and choose to cling to conspiracies which they see as 'the real truth that ain't taught in school'. Their lack of education makes them easily duped by pseudo-science and outlandish theories of all sorts and they are increasingly unemployable in our changing economy. It would be very hard to have friends who think all Muslims are terrorists, all Blacks are thugs, Latinos should be rounded up, abortion doctors should be shot, that Hillary is a lizard, and that feminism is a mental illness. In what other country or culture is being uneducated so celebrated?
232
In Britain where the less educated voted for Brexit and the next day flooded Google with searches of what's Brexit and what's the EU.
2
To summarize, when whites don't get an education and do better than their parents, it is by choice. Thank for enlightening us.
1
My friends, with and without a college degree, vote. It is about social awareness, not educational level alone. One should not have to go to college to learn the power of one's vote. It should be taught in basic civics courses across America by the end of Junior High or Middle School. Every school should be required to have a course on the Citizenship Test that new citizens take. It would provide a basic understanding of America, our history and how important every person's vote is. Political choice - or fake elections - should not be part of it. Just education.
42
Yet we do have fake elections. Two private organizations that do capital's bidding control those elections. With predictable results. As Walter Karp wrote so succinctly decades ago, job one for those parties is that one or the other of them wins.
You can bet I had civics class. That's what school is for, to make good citizens, along with of course classifying us for appropriate participation in the corporate order.
If we're to become educated about power, which is the only decent definition of education there is, job one for us is to unlearn the laughable yet dangerous indoctrination perpetrated upon us in civics class.
There's still time and opportunity to step outside those pretty lies.
You can bet I had civics class. That's what school is for, to make good citizens, along with of course classifying us for appropriate participation in the corporate order.
If we're to become educated about power, which is the only decent definition of education there is, job one for us is to unlearn the laughable yet dangerous indoctrination perpetrated upon us in civics class.
There's still time and opportunity to step outside those pretty lies.
1
“He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them. But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion... Nor is it enough that he should hear the opinions of adversaries from his own teachers, presented as they state them, and accompanied by what they offer as refutations. He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them...he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.”
― John Stuart Mill, On Liberty
― John Stuart Mill, On Liberty
35
How do you know if the person you hear them "actually believe[s] them" or is simply telling you want you to her? And if a person is indeed telling the truth as he or she understands it is their perspective still valid should they stop believing it?
1
Mill was an absolute genius...
2
My apologies for sounding like an elitist snob here.
I have three graduate degrees. I would certainly fit into the category where my five closest friends either have a graduate degree; a bachelor's degree and/or well on their way to one.
The closest I come to acquaintances that have no college degree tend to be those I "see" on Facebook. I love seeing their photos of kids and pets, etc. But when I see their near total political ignorance (supporting someone who will do nothing for them; if not actually hurt their lives), why would I want to associate with them on a daily basis?
The friends I have with the advanced educations are more knowledgeable, better travelled, and often just plain more compassionate not just to those they know, but to those they do not know.
I have three graduate degrees. I would certainly fit into the category where my five closest friends either have a graduate degree; a bachelor's degree and/or well on their way to one.
The closest I come to acquaintances that have no college degree tend to be those I "see" on Facebook. I love seeing their photos of kids and pets, etc. But when I see their near total political ignorance (supporting someone who will do nothing for them; if not actually hurt their lives), why would I want to associate with them on a daily basis?
The friends I have with the advanced educations are more knowledgeable, better travelled, and often just plain more compassionate not just to those they know, but to those they do not know.
115
My lack of a college degree does not make me ignorant. Your lack of compassion does.
5
Neither college degrees nor compassion determine who is ignorant and who is not.
One can be compassionate and wise, or compassionate and foolish.
We need look no farther than Donald Trump to know that you can have a college degree and be ignorant.
That said, compassionate people tend to like other compassionate people.
And, for better or worse, we tend to associate mostly with people who are somewhat similarly educated.
One can be compassionate and wise, or compassionate and foolish.
We need look no farther than Donald Trump to know that you can have a college degree and be ignorant.
That said, compassionate people tend to like other compassionate people.
And, for better or worse, we tend to associate mostly with people who are somewhat similarly educated.
32
Just because some people support the candidate that you do not does not imply a) lack of a college degree(s), b) political ignorance. When you disassociate from those with differing opinions, and, if fact, imply that they are ignorant, you impose a self isolation which only feeds your ignorance of the other side of an issue.
So while we all tend to associate with "our own" -- guilty as charged -- at least I, (post graduate degree), take the time to discuss a variety of topics when I am together with those of a different "persuasion". And I do have some friends, friends for years, who do not share my views on a variety of subjects.
So while we all tend to associate with "our own" -- guilty as charged -- at least I, (post graduate degree), take the time to discuss a variety of topics when I am together with those of a different "persuasion". And I do have some friends, friends for years, who do not share my views on a variety of subjects.
10
Of the people I routinely talk to and see socially, the only one without a college degree is me and I did 3.5 years first at a fairly elite private school so tend to consider myself in the college-educated category. We're also *mostly* in the same income bracket, with one exception. I have exactly one Republican friend who's really more of a libertarian, and we simply don't discuss politics with him.
But most of my existing social group met *in* college, and have stayed friends since then, and I met them because I went to the same school as some of them (a few years later). So we're a self-selected group to begin with.
But you know, we're still Americans, despite the idea that educated liberals are some sort of "elite" instead of regular citizens. I even pay income taxes, which according to Mitt Romney puts me in the 53% of "working" Americans. I'm really tired of being considered 'elite' because I live in a mostly urban area and have a decent job in the tech industry.
But most of my existing social group met *in* college, and have stayed friends since then, and I met them because I went to the same school as some of them (a few years later). So we're a self-selected group to begin with.
But you know, we're still Americans, despite the idea that educated liberals are some sort of "elite" instead of regular citizens. I even pay income taxes, which according to Mitt Romney puts me in the 53% of "working" Americans. I'm really tired of being considered 'elite' because I live in a mostly urban area and have a decent job in the tech industry.
71
" I have exactly one Republican friend"
I think that's one more than I do. Many years ago a friend commented about how Reagan won in a landslide, but she didn't know anyone who voted for him.
I think that's one more than I do. Many years ago a friend commented about how Reagan won in a landslide, but she didn't know anyone who voted for him.
6
"Many years ago a friend commented about how Reagan won in a landslide, but she didn't know anyone who voted for him."
I *still* don't know anyone who voted for Reagan.
I *still* don't know anyone who voted for Reagan.
2
The premise of this article is that "elites" seek out other "elites" and their choice of friends drives the class divide. Where and how is it demonstrated that the decisions of those who went to college cause this pattern? Cause and effect people, cause and effect. We all play a role in this class divide.
10
Yes, in America the elite is largely organized by education. More degrees usually means more elite.
You may not wake up in the morning thinking "I'm elite".
But the guy from Honduras who works on repairing your roof perceives you as elite.
You may not wake up in the morning thinking "I'm elite".
But the guy from Honduras who works on repairing your roof perceives you as elite.
7
Having worked multiple blue collar jobs on the way to my graduate degrees, I was able to disabuse my co-workers of any feeling that I was part of the elite. This carried over to our recent house construction where I worked side by side with the plumber electrician and carpenter. We had a lot more in common than they expected. One upshot was a number of them brought their high school aged children over to talk with my wife and I about their dreams and aspirations and give them advice.
5
In some ways, little surprise here. Many of us make friends in college (or high school), where we work, and where we live. The first two are related and would sort us by education level.
That said, as someone with advanced degrees, I'm tired of the word "elite," which seems to be geared to suggest that those of us who are more educated are somehow less American, i.e., we are not the "real" Americans. I happened to be born into a family which is highly educated; I grew up in a culture where going to college was simply expected among my friends and their families. That is the world into which I was born, not anything I did. Still, I served in the Navy (obviously I volunteered) and received a "letter of commendation" along with my honorable discharge.
Education is increasingly important in a world in which more and more jobs are technology based, where working on the factory floor increasingly requires advanced computer skills rather than repetitive physical motion. So, why do we suggest that to be highly educated is to set one apart from "real" American culture? Why is my culture of folks who prefer Nova to Family Feud, who read books instead of People Magazine, who prefer Chablis to Miller Lite not "real" American culture?
That said, as someone with advanced degrees, I'm tired of the word "elite," which seems to be geared to suggest that those of us who are more educated are somehow less American, i.e., we are not the "real" Americans. I happened to be born into a family which is highly educated; I grew up in a culture where going to college was simply expected among my friends and their families. That is the world into which I was born, not anything I did. Still, I served in the Navy (obviously I volunteered) and received a "letter of commendation" along with my honorable discharge.
Education is increasingly important in a world in which more and more jobs are technology based, where working on the factory floor increasingly requires advanced computer skills rather than repetitive physical motion. So, why do we suggest that to be highly educated is to set one apart from "real" American culture? Why is my culture of folks who prefer Nova to Family Feud, who read books instead of People Magazine, who prefer Chablis to Miller Lite not "real" American culture?
198
I would question the category of having a professional degree not include STEM PhDs. I'm in the latter category and maybe we aren't as likely to consider ourselves elitist. I came from a different family environment. My Dad had an 8th grade education (a matter of losing his father early and economics) and my mother was a HS graduate. However, education was highly valued. My sister was the first of the immediate family to go to college but only came close to graduation (that came years later). I had excellent mentors who advised to go to grad school and a supportive wife (who has her "PhT", putting hubby through). Only one of my good friends from HS remains and he at least has a couple years of college. My other remaining friends I net in college, grad school, or on the job and one has passed on).
3
Thank you. I'm sick of not being considered a "Real American" because I live in an urban area, have a college degree, and prefer to read books over watching reality tv.
I don't feel very elite--why am I considered so by virtue of my education and location?
I don't feel very elite--why am I considered so by virtue of my education and location?
98
Godd questions. My immigrant granparents and mother aspired to education, books, and a better life, and I am infinitely grateful to them for that, as it gave me an infinitely more fulfilling life. I have seen, and not fully understood, turning sharply from any move to change oneself as class betrayal. It's sad. You should do it for your children, if not for yourself.
1
What is the definition of "friend" here?
1) workplace associate?
2) voluntary organization associate?
3) sexual companion?
4) barroom companion?
5) neighbor?
6) a mix of the five categories above?
Some individuals might fit in only one category. Fellows in their category might give different responses than individuals fitting in several categories.
1) workplace associate?
2) voluntary organization associate?
3) sexual companion?
4) barroom companion?
5) neighbor?
6) a mix of the five categories above?
Some individuals might fit in only one category. Fellows in their category might give different responses than individuals fitting in several categories.
11
I am quite clear in my own mind as to who my friends are.
They aren't selected from categories.
One 50 year friend was with me in the Army in Indochina and has a high school degree
One friend was with me in grad school and lives in my town
Friends are friends. If you need a reference list to recall them, they aren't friends.
They aren't selected from categories.
One 50 year friend was with me in the Army in Indochina and has a high school degree
One friend was with me in grad school and lives in my town
Friends are friends. If you need a reference list to recall them, they aren't friends.
7
I believe the stated criterion was "good friends" however you choose that to mean.
4
You forgot FaceBook friend..
1