Why are all 16 deadliest counties in Southern USA. It makes one wonder about US History dating back to 1800"s where free Northern States and slave Southern States existed. Slavery is abolished but sentiments remain in Southern US. California has huge immigration issues and has 5 of the 16 deadliest counties. Let's connect the dots--this is outright racism......
2
Some here say the death penalty is not a deterrent. I beg to differ. The person we execute will be deterred from murdering again forever. Who's looking for a deterrent? No one I know. We want this person to be punished for the insult to our society.
Others say that Life without parole is cruel. I'll bet the person who was killed died much crueler death. The person has committed the most serious crime possible in society. He's deprived some one else of their most precious possession. their life. He's deprived the dead person's friends and family of their company. This murderer will at times have a pleasant memory. The dead person won't.
He should be prevented from ever having a pleasantry of any type.
Execute them. If they appeal it should be handled with in 7 days. It is disgraceful that these murders should drag thirty years more life.
You forfeit what you took from others.
And please stop with all the fancy means to the end. Hanging, drinking poisons arrows and gun shots have worked well for many centuries. If you've forgotten how to do them I'll be more than happy to consult.
Others say that Life without parole is cruel. I'll bet the person who was killed died much crueler death. The person has committed the most serious crime possible in society. He's deprived some one else of their most precious possession. their life. He's deprived the dead person's friends and family of their company. This murderer will at times have a pleasant memory. The dead person won't.
He should be prevented from ever having a pleasantry of any type.
Execute them. If they appeal it should be handled with in 7 days. It is disgraceful that these murders should drag thirty years more life.
You forfeit what you took from others.
And please stop with all the fancy means to the end. Hanging, drinking poisons arrows and gun shots have worked well for many centuries. If you've forgotten how to do them I'll be more than happy to consult.
2
The State is obliged to protect citizens, by any means.
2
Your analysis is interesting but does not discuss the number of high level repeat crimes that occur when people are released early or released after serving short sentences for crimes such as murder and rape. One recent example of a crime that should be punishable with death is the murder of the 10 year old girl in New Mexico who was raped, dismembered, and set on fire by her mother, her mother's boyfriend and a cousin of the boyfriend. There are others but this one is recent. Why should any of those individuals ever have the chance to breath air again? All had lengthy criminal pasts, certainly they served time for other crimes. There are those who have such a violent life that there is not reason to continue to warehouse them in prison. Just for the record, I don't believe either of them were black.
5
I am 10 years a ST. Johns County FL resident originally from Boston. First, thank you NYT, please keep at this.. Thank you Walt Bogdanovich and now thank you for the Angela Corey article. This is the only way we will affect change. As a resident and employee of a small staffing company, one year ago I witnessed a horrific murder of a store clerk by a very young St. Johns County resident. I've learned he did not have the opportunities in life that should have been afforded. I do not want him to be executed, either. All I can say is NYT, please, please continue with your investigative stories. The state of FL needs this. Thank you.
4
If abolition of the death penalty in this country does not occur (and it probably won't in the near future), I propose a (Jonathan) Swiftian variation: all states still enshrining it should, by federal constitutional amendment, require that all able-bodied adult residents of said states be placed in an executioner lottery, similar to jury and grand jury duty, and be required to carry out executions, with stiff fines for all scofflaws, if they are selected. The executioners would also be required to be present all the way through to the prison medical examiners declaring the condemned prisoner dead. Killing someone, even "legally," is not so easy when you have to do it yourself, up close and personal.
5
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Once again, Emily Bazelon gives the Sunday Magazine a reason for existing (besides as a home to the Crossword). I'm not entirely sure why the special issue of the Magazine was devoted to the underlying causes of Middle East conflict rather than to the existence of death-penalty statutes in the United States 240 years after adoption of the Declaration of Independence. (Make no mistake: The Middle East topic is important, and too many Americans lacked the knowledge conveyed in that edition of the Magazine. Still ...)
The information about the pinpoint geography of executions (and death sentences that are never carried out) is startling. This is important stuff, and the research here could help us understand other issues plaguing our most populous counties.
However, we shouldn't lose sight of officeholders above the County level who bear heavy responsibility for death sentences. They include:
- Legislators who approve statutes providing for a death sentence.
- Legislators who do not vote to repeal such statutes.
- Governors and Presidents who do not veto such statutes.
- Governors and Presidents who do not commute every death sentence.
- Appellate judges who fail to invalidate such statutes when the opportunity arises.
- Appellate judges who fail to strike down the application of such statutes.
I would note that neither of the major-party candidates for President opposes all death sentences.
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Once again, Emily Bazelon gives the Sunday Magazine a reason for existing (besides as a home to the Crossword). I'm not entirely sure why the special issue of the Magazine was devoted to the underlying causes of Middle East conflict rather than to the existence of death-penalty statutes in the United States 240 years after adoption of the Declaration of Independence. (Make no mistake: The Middle East topic is important, and too many Americans lacked the knowledge conveyed in that edition of the Magazine. Still ...)
The information about the pinpoint geography of executions (and death sentences that are never carried out) is startling. This is important stuff, and the research here could help us understand other issues plaguing our most populous counties.
However, we shouldn't lose sight of officeholders above the County level who bear heavy responsibility for death sentences. They include:
- Legislators who approve statutes providing for a death sentence.
- Legislators who do not vote to repeal such statutes.
- Governors and Presidents who do not veto such statutes.
- Governors and Presidents who do not commute every death sentence.
- Appellate judges who fail to invalidate such statutes when the opportunity arises.
- Appellate judges who fail to strike down the application of such statutes.
I would note that neither of the major-party candidates for President opposes all death sentences.
At first I was outraged that an innocent girl was brutally executed by an animal with zero conscience. Then I read that he said "I'm sorry". Thanks NYT.
Have you ever met a stone cold killer who did not care about killing one or more of his victims? I've sat and talked with guys who killed children, who killed store employees in robberies, and who killed 3 men for money......he was to be paid to kill one guy but there were two others there so he killed all 3 of them. All of those guys should have gotten the death penalty but only a few of the dozens I talked to did get it. Some were white, some were black as were their victims. You need to spend some time on the street with a Ted Bundy or Charlie Manson and his women and see how you like it watching them matter-of-factly talk about torturing the innocent. The issue is catching and trying the killer, not just anyone.
3
Although each individual consider capital punishment, and how willing they will be to live with their conclusions concerning it, their efforts will have to contend with other means of coping with their fears. Defending yourself, your home, your community as it widens. The domination system defines how most people go about that. In contrast to the KKK reference, the justice system allows going into the community to kill people who have killed others. This reliance on the state, or the religious who rely on God'vindication, serves to offer citizens an alternative of personal revenge. of taking the law into their own hands. The US includes many places where a hungry man can get bread and a bowl of soup, where he can wash himself and his clothes, where he can get a nights sleep and good wishes from someone who helps improve his life; it also includes a lot of folk who are all right about not concerning themselves with that. The ebb and flow of capital punishment has been and will be a story to report; a sign of where we are at the moment and where we are headed.
it seems like "the devil in the grove" is still alive and well in florida.
1
Trying to figure out why I should feel sorry for a convicted murderer who shot someone in the face. Oh wait, I don't.
3
No one is asking you to feel "sorry" for anyone. The question here is justice. The death penalty isn't just. Developed countries either completely eschew the death penalty or only use it for especially heinous circumstances. Once again the United States is an outlier.
2
The case and the life of Cristian Fernandez, mentioned in the article, is just as horrifying. Why was he charged with murder at all? The article indicates that it took eight hours for the mother to take David to the hospital. Was she charged with anything?
There is also the matter of the mother possibly being 12 or 13 when she became pregnant with Cristian. More than likely, there is a man somewhere that needs to be charged with statutory rape, at the very least. And where are the parents, Cristian's grandparents?
Neither Cristian nor his mother had a chance to grow up and become stable adults. How long are we going to allow neglect and abuse to ruin children's lives?
There is also the matter of the mother possibly being 12 or 13 when she became pregnant with Cristian. More than likely, there is a man somewhere that needs to be charged with statutory rape, at the very least. And where are the parents, Cristian's grandparents?
Neither Cristian nor his mother had a chance to grow up and become stable adults. How long are we going to allow neglect and abuse to ruin children's lives?
3
I am torn about the death penalty. On the one hand, for heinous crimes such as the rape and murder of a child or what happened to the mom and her daughters in Shelton, CT, my gut reaction is to kill the perpetrator. On the other hand, I think that decision is not ours to make. I'm pro life, no matter whose, no matter at what stage. The ideal, I suppose, is to have mercy. Bu what about justice? It's a very complex issue.
1
If it is not equally applied of course we should abolish the death penalty. But what do we do about this epidemic of violence. Perhaps the drug addict father of Rhodes should have been sterilized long ago. The story tells us how he came to visit with a new baby. If society is to take care of these individuals does society have a right to make certain demands...... like if you want to make babies you have to meet certain standards? This girl died because society did not want to limit any of the freedoms that this boys parents had and did not want to take financial responsibility for what it would take to raise this boy. The death penalty issue is like arguing over the deck chairs of the Titanic although it makes a lot of money for the lawyers. It looks like our society has chosen a laissez faire economic attitude regarding our underclass and one of the costs is the loss of this girl`s life and the potential execution of this boy. If we do not like it then maybe we need to rethink our societal structure and economic system.....and consider sterilization and consider a guaranteed annual living income for all Americans including this boy and his mother wherever she is.
1
The only way we will end the death penalty is for the Supreme Court to decide that the death penalty violates the 8th amendment’s prohibition on cruel punishments.
Meanwhile there are measures we can take to reduce false convictions.
Only confessions made in OPEN court should be admissible.
No jailhouse snitches or third party confessions. Even video taping may not reveal coercion before taping began.
If only eyewitness testimony is used require the testimony of at least two witnesses.
To convict for treason [the only crime defined in the US Constitution] the Constitution requires if a confession is used that the confession be made in OPEN court and if eyewitness testimony is used at least two witnesses are required.
That standard should be applied in all criminal cases and definitely in capital cases.
Require a trained forensic medical examiner to come to a death scene before the body is moved and require that a trained forensic medical examiner do the autopsy.
Do not use unreliable tests like bite analysis.
Understand Bayesian probability.
If a test has a small probability , p, of error [probability of a false positive] the probability that a person who tests positive is in fact guilty is not 1-p.
Suppose there are N possible guilty persons.
The actual probability P that a person who tests positive is guilty is
P = 1 / { 1 + [ N - 1] p}
if p =.01 and N= 10 P = 92% or 8% chance not guilty
Should we convict or worse execute on the basis of that probability..
Meanwhile there are measures we can take to reduce false convictions.
Only confessions made in OPEN court should be admissible.
No jailhouse snitches or third party confessions. Even video taping may not reveal coercion before taping began.
If only eyewitness testimony is used require the testimony of at least two witnesses.
To convict for treason [the only crime defined in the US Constitution] the Constitution requires if a confession is used that the confession be made in OPEN court and if eyewitness testimony is used at least two witnesses are required.
That standard should be applied in all criminal cases and definitely in capital cases.
Require a trained forensic medical examiner to come to a death scene before the body is moved and require that a trained forensic medical examiner do the autopsy.
Do not use unreliable tests like bite analysis.
Understand Bayesian probability.
If a test has a small probability , p, of error [probability of a false positive] the probability that a person who tests positive is in fact guilty is not 1-p.
Suppose there are N possible guilty persons.
The actual probability P that a person who tests positive is guilty is
P = 1 / { 1 + [ N - 1] p}
if p =.01 and N= 10 P = 92% or 8% chance not guilty
Should we convict or worse execute on the basis of that probability..
8
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I disagree that the only way to get rid of state-sponsored killing would be to win a Supreme Court ruling that the 8th Amendment forbids that particular "penalty". I say that for two reasons.
1. Some clauses of the Constitution are interpreted in accordance with their meanings upon ratification. A good example would be the 5th Amendment "right" to a grand jury indictment; that clause is not applicable to misdemeanors.
If "unusual" meant "unusual by modern standards", the Court would have said so already. While it's true that the Court has applied modern knowledge to Eighth Amendment cases, the jurisprudence surrounding executions of adults of sound mind for murder or treason has been rooted for the most part in a 1791 understanding of "cruel and unusual". That's not going to change.
2. There is an entirely separate ground for invalidating state statutes allowing the state to kill an imprisoned person: reasonableness.
Every section of a state's penal code must be rational. To take away a person's life, liberty, or property by using an irrational law is a violation of due process. None of the rationales that undergird sentencing procedures can be relied upon to make any sense of executions, except perhaps personal vengeance or specific deterrence (keeping a specific person from re-offending). I may be biased because I oppose the death penalty for other reasons, but I think a direct challenge to the rationality of death-penalty statutes could succeed in the Supreme Court.
I disagree that the only way to get rid of state-sponsored killing would be to win a Supreme Court ruling that the 8th Amendment forbids that particular "penalty". I say that for two reasons.
1. Some clauses of the Constitution are interpreted in accordance with their meanings upon ratification. A good example would be the 5th Amendment "right" to a grand jury indictment; that clause is not applicable to misdemeanors.
If "unusual" meant "unusual by modern standards", the Court would have said so already. While it's true that the Court has applied modern knowledge to Eighth Amendment cases, the jurisprudence surrounding executions of adults of sound mind for murder or treason has been rooted for the most part in a 1791 understanding of "cruel and unusual". That's not going to change.
2. There is an entirely separate ground for invalidating state statutes allowing the state to kill an imprisoned person: reasonableness.
Every section of a state's penal code must be rational. To take away a person's life, liberty, or property by using an irrational law is a violation of due process. None of the rationales that undergird sentencing procedures can be relied upon to make any sense of executions, except perhaps personal vengeance or specific deterrence (keeping a specific person from re-offending). I may be biased because I oppose the death penalty for other reasons, but I think a direct challenge to the rationality of death-penalty statutes could succeed in the Supreme Court.
We should not do either on that evidence alone.
What "cruel and unusual punishments" in the 8th amendment means is what the Supreme Court rules it to mean.
The Court has extended the definition of cruel and unusual to ban the death penalty in certain cases. These restrictions were not present when the 8th amendment was ratified.
Juveniles can not now be executed.
There are restrictions now on executing mentally retarded.
There are only certain crimes for which the death penalty can be imposed
Supreme Court decisions are not based on the Constitution but on expediency. A Justice decides what result he/she wants and then dredges up a rationale to support that decision.
If enough Justices want to abolish the death penalty [and I hope they do] they will find a reason to do so.
The Court has extended the definition of cruel and unusual to ban the death penalty in certain cases. These restrictions were not present when the 8th amendment was ratified.
Juveniles can not now be executed.
There are restrictions now on executing mentally retarded.
There are only certain crimes for which the death penalty can be imposed
Supreme Court decisions are not based on the Constitution but on expediency. A Justice decides what result he/she wants and then dredges up a rationale to support that decision.
If enough Justices want to abolish the death penalty [and I hope they do] they will find a reason to do so.
1
I oppose the death penalty in ALL cases because the only way not to execute an innocent person is to execute no one.
If a magic wand exists that could in EVERY case determine guilt or innocence with 100% accuracy , I would support the death penalty.
No magic wand exists.
There is no clear dividing line between absolute certainty and a small possibility of error.
Confessions can be coerced; eyewitnesses can err; lab tests have false positives; junk science [tooth bit analysis] can be used.
Remember the Central Park 5. Everyone knew they were guilty.
They confessed.
If NYS had a death penalty and the jogger had died, these 5 INNOCENT youths would have fried.
The death penalty is not a deterrent. Comparison of homicide rates in adjacent states one with the other without the death penalty show no difference.
The question for death penalty supporters is this.
In order to be able to execute vicious criminals is it acceptable to risk executing an innocent person.
I say no and therefore oppose the death penalty in all cases.
If a magic wand exists that could in EVERY case determine guilt or innocence with 100% accuracy , I would support the death penalty.
No magic wand exists.
There is no clear dividing line between absolute certainty and a small possibility of error.
Confessions can be coerced; eyewitnesses can err; lab tests have false positives; junk science [tooth bit analysis] can be used.
Remember the Central Park 5. Everyone knew they were guilty.
They confessed.
If NYS had a death penalty and the jogger had died, these 5 INNOCENT youths would have fried.
The death penalty is not a deterrent. Comparison of homicide rates in adjacent states one with the other without the death penalty show no difference.
The question for death penalty supporters is this.
In order to be able to execute vicious criminals is it acceptable to risk executing an innocent person.
I say no and therefore oppose the death penalty in all cases.
6
I agree with you entirely that it is the only way to insure not taking the life of the wrongly convicted. The death penalty also inevitably creates more murderers. Do we really want to employ immoral people for whom the taking of a life, however sanitized by lethal injection, is a average part of work or to force moral people to undergo the life long trauma of helping to kill someone they have known on a nearly daily basis for years. Either way it is an unproductive act on the part of the state. To say that the death penalty is anything but murder for hire is ignoring the facts.
2
I understand your revulsion to the death penalty.
I have mixed feelings but I can understand its use IF there were absolute certainty] for first degree premeditated murder or felony murder [murder during a robbery for example].
However for reasons I outlined above our criminal justice system is imperfect and there is no absolute certainty.
Therefore I oppose the death penalty in ALL cases.
But murder for hire may be too strong. High security prisons have guards in towers with rifles and are under orders to kill escapees. If they kill an escaped murderer are they "hired killers".
What about police sharpshooters.
What do we do about a prisoner serving life who kills a guard or another inmate.
Deliberately killing another human being even a convicted murderer is horrible but so are some of the crimes that have been committed.
I have mixed feelings but I can understand its use IF there were absolute certainty] for first degree premeditated murder or felony murder [murder during a robbery for example].
However for reasons I outlined above our criminal justice system is imperfect and there is no absolute certainty.
Therefore I oppose the death penalty in ALL cases.
But murder for hire may be too strong. High security prisons have guards in towers with rifles and are under orders to kill escapees. If they kill an escaped murderer are they "hired killers".
What about police sharpshooters.
What do we do about a prisoner serving life who kills a guard or another inmate.
Deliberately killing another human being even a convicted murderer is horrible but so are some of the crimes that have been committed.
2
Thank you Emily for the thoughtful piece on the death penalty. For the last 15+ years I have worked in the California Dept. of Corrections and Rehabilitation. During this time we have executed three individuals at San Quentin while the number of inmates on Death Row has continued to grow - mostly from the five counties in California that Emily notes still use the death penalty to any degree (Los Angeles, Kern, San Bernardino, Orange, and Riverside). In my work as a psychologist I have met and talked with a number of condemned inmates and many more "lifers" who have either life without parole (LWOP) or indeterminate life sentences (e.g. 15 to life). I have always opposed the death penalty as barbaric and inhumane. But I also oppose LWOP as inhumane and simply awful. Although I hear and intellectually understand the need to punish wrongdoers and to protect society from evil persons, the conditions in which we place convicted felons are so awful. And beyond the conditions, the inhumanity of condemning an individual to life in prison without possibility of parole seems so immoral and a denial of the facts that people do change over time - even the worst among us change (granted, not always for the better). There simply has to be a way for our modern and (mostly) compassionate society to lock up so many people and throw away the key. I will vote this fall to abolish the death penalty in California but I am sad that the ballot proposition substitutes LWOP for death.
7
Death qualification of jurors is the most hypocritical part of the death penalty system. It has set back the evolution of our law by decades, making it impossible for evolving community views on the death penalty to play out where it matters most, in an actual capital trial.
4
Just finished reading "Just Mercy" today for a school community read. If you are interested in delving further into the injustices of capital punishment as it relates to race, mental illness, socio-economic standing, gender and age, I highly recommend this book by Bryan Stevenson. A word of caution though, it is tough to hear some of the cases, especially about children encarcerated and tried as adults.
2
A quote for which I can't find the context: "Society only punishes those whom it first abuses." This is not a popular idea among the prosecutors who believe in "born criminals"
3
I do not understand this viewpoint that somehow Mr. Rhodes has committed a crime that is not serious enough for the death penalty. He shot and killed a beautiful, helpless, innocent young woman during the course of armed robbery. This is aggravated murder. He is not off the hook because he was high. Give me a break. This is an absolutely unforgivable crime.
9
It may be unforgivable, but what is even more unforgivable is society allowing the abuse and neglect of Mr. Rhodes during his entire life. How can we expect any other outcome for him but what he has done to survive? I am not saying that giving Mr. Rhodes a pass is the right thing to do, but there has to be something else for him other than the death penalty.
2
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"Unforgivable crime"?
Jesus would have forgiven it. Hate the sin, love the sinner. And let he who is without sin cast the first stone.
"Unforgivable crime"?
Jesus would have forgiven it. Hate the sin, love the sinner. And let he who is without sin cast the first stone.
1
It is not without enormous financial costs to taxpayers that cold blooded murderers are incarcerated for life rather than put to death. Somebody's got to finance a lifetime of meals, guards, housing, recreation, payment for menial work, medical and dental care, fitness/recreation, magazines/newspapers/books/television, clothing, supervised visitations, grooming, counseling, training, etc.
4
Believe it or not, death penalty cases are more expensive than other cases, including the cost of incarceration. Pay now or pay later, folks. Republican conservatives have finally realized what liberals knew all along, and are starting to make chenges. Taxpayer money going to education, healthcare and social services for children will get much more bang for the money, and is more likely to produce contributing (taxpaying) members of society. Otherwise, we are left with non-productive members of society, whether from low educational levels, low skills, disability or criminality, and society pays, in more ways than just money, for these individuals.
3
Rhodes said he was "high." Is that supposed to be an excuse for blowing someone's brains out?
He told his lawyer (I should believe this?) that he was "sorry."
I don't support the death penalty (intellect and moral understanding speaking).
My heart would hang this guy in 2 seconds.
He told his lawyer (I should believe this?) that he was "sorry."
I don't support the death penalty (intellect and moral understanding speaking).
My heart would hang this guy in 2 seconds.
7
The disparity in executions for capital crimes reflects the disparity in the rates at which those crimes are committed by certain groups. Where it does not, then jurisprudence must be corrected so that money and access to better lawyers doesn't tilt the scales. Bemoaning the expense of a capital conviction overlooks the industry of those who throw monkey wrenches into the legal machinery. They are like orphans who kill their parents and then want sympathy for being orphaned. When a cop killer like Mumia- he never has put up any near a creditable defense- still has access to the law library, three squares a day, clean sheets, and cable TV, while the murdered young officer, Faulkner, has been cold in the ground, his children orphaned, his wife widowed these many long decades later, there is not justice. If we decide some criminals should pay with their lives, then the Barry Schecks of this world who find wrongful convictions one out of several thousand at a time, should not be allowed to prevent someone like Mumia from being put to death. The last thing any counsel for a defendant in a capital case wants, is probative evidence like DNA. Where you have that, the only recourse is jury nullification, such as was engineered in the OJ trial.
4
Excellent article. It's barbaric that our government still kills people; a century from now, Americans will be as horrified by the death penalty as we are today by lynching (though, clearly, the two are similar). Life without parole is a harsh penalty that still allows for the possibility of remorse and the rehabilitation of a human being. I would love to see over-zealous (fanatical?) prosecutors like Angela Corey rejected by voters.
7
Actually, it isn't barbaric. God commands us in the Bible to punish murder with the death penalty. Life for a life.
Just because they're 'sorry' doesn't take back the fact that they took a life that God created.
Just because they're 'sorry' doesn't take back the fact that they took a life that God created.
3
Just because this is what is written in the Bible, doesn't mean it isn't barbaric to kill potentially innocent people. Love and forgiveness are also in the Bible - a much more intelligent response, as well as humane and compassionate. That's my interpretation of Biblical stories - not anger and retribution for superiority.
1
There are a lot of other things in the Old Testament. Shall we stone adulterers? Shall we keep slaves? There is a different tone in the New Testament. Have you heard of "turn the other cheek"?
The issue that I see is that nobody can give a guarantee that these people convicted of murder and other heinous crimes would serve their sentences to the end. We now live in a relatively stable country, but nothing is forever. And when there is a major change or revolution, somehow most of these people end up on the street again.
4
I finally convinced my partner that the death penalty was not only wrong, but after seeing hundreds of people being released from death row after DNA was available, it became clear the me that thousands have already been executed who were in fact not guilty. They were mostly guilty of being black and/or poor. Maybe the US isn't civilized yet. I wish we were.
13
Rhodes was essentially given a death sentence at the start of his life being born poor, black and without parents. Kids with the worst cards at birth need massive help. To think we cannot "afford" it, look at the costs and pain in even one example. People need jobs and these children are drowning so lets do both by tackling this with small group homes, quality counseling, sports, fresh air and food. Love. I write this as a former foster kid. All societies have parents that fail for a number of reasons. The social costs are astronomical so when that happens it is in everyone's interest to address. Think about it - it is hard enough to go through life without parental love so we have to give these kids more help, not less. It is very hard to replace parental love, but we can do so much better than Rhode's childhood described here which is tragically real for millions of our kids. What middle class parent would throw even one of these adversities at a toddler and expect a decent outcome? Abandonment, hunger, abuse . . that is no way to treat a baby in civilized society.
24
I agree with most of what you're saying here. But I don't think committing murder is an automatic consequence of growing up in these conditions. That's insulting to all the other people who've also grown up with such adversity but still wouldn't dream of shooting another human being in the head.
1
Oh boo hoo. Every person knows right from wrong. When the bible says that the law is written in men's hearts that is what it is referring to. In crime syndicates filled with evil men who kill they feels pain when a friend is killed. They know it is wrong.
“We know that people are coming into our system with trauma, but oftentimes that trauma is overlooked because of their criminal offense,” she said. It doesn’t make sense to ignore it, she added. “Approximately 96 percent of the individuals who are incarcerated in one of our prisons is going home, back to a community or a family.”
Great NYT's reporting, often on the same day but we need to connect the dots from childhood abuse to crime . . .the entire story is here just on different pages, different days.
Great NYT's reporting, often on the same day but we need to connect the dots from childhood abuse to crime . . .the entire story is here just on different pages, different days.
8
Few people seem to care about the murdered girl. This fellow sounds like an ideal candidate for the penalty, since it takes a real nut to shoot someone in the head at close range. To Breyer's concern about the randomness of it all, maybe deciding that everyone who kills more than once should get it would even out the distribution. Someone serving a few years for killing and then going out and killing again is a bad idea. Most released killers go straight, so this would be a tiny number, but it would increase predictability for both courts and people contemplating a second crime.
Americans (and maybe Norwegians) live in a dream world. Their biggest threat is dying from obesity. That makes it easy to pass facile judgment on drones, the death penalty, anything that reflects a harsher reality. A just society defends its citizens from harm, even if they don't appreciate it, and that will sometimes require violence.
Alternatively, we could take a lesson from other countries. In some, if the family chooses to forgive the killer (or if he pays them enough), they can have the execution waived. If they say no, the murderer gets it. Think of it as victim's rights.
Americans (and maybe Norwegians) live in a dream world. Their biggest threat is dying from obesity. That makes it easy to pass facile judgment on drones, the death penalty, anything that reflects a harsher reality. A just society defends its citizens from harm, even if they don't appreciate it, and that will sometimes require violence.
Alternatively, we could take a lesson from other countries. In some, if the family chooses to forgive the killer (or if he pays them enough), they can have the execution waived. If they say no, the murderer gets it. Think of it as victim's rights.
7
By your standards, Mr. Rhodes would not get the death penalty, since he has committed one murder.
I don't believe anyone is overlooking Shelby. We are all conscious that a daughter and a sister is now missing from a family, and that whole left by her murder will never close.
We do, however, need to ask ourselves if it's worth it to close our eyes and ignore the abuse and neglect that so many children live through. We are all complicit in Mr. Rhodes' horrible life and in Shelby's murder.
I don't believe anyone is overlooking Shelby. We are all conscious that a daughter and a sister is now missing from a family, and that whole left by her murder will never close.
We do, however, need to ask ourselves if it's worth it to close our eyes and ignore the abuse and neglect that so many children live through. We are all complicit in Mr. Rhodes' horrible life and in Shelby's murder.
Whatever it is that we have in this country it is not a "System of Justice".
Perhaps we should teach teenagers that if you rob a store - your crime
is just one of many that day and the Police are not going to hunt you down.
But if you kill someone, then they will seek you out day and night and you will,
if caught, spend the rest of your life in prison.
We wring our hands over guilty murderers who may suffer the death penalty but we ignore the society that produces them and quickly forget about those who were murdered.
It seems more and more that our nation lack sanity and justice.
Perhaps we should teach teenagers that if you rob a store - your crime
is just one of many that day and the Police are not going to hunt you down.
But if you kill someone, then they will seek you out day and night and you will,
if caught, spend the rest of your life in prison.
We wring our hands over guilty murderers who may suffer the death penalty but we ignore the society that produces them and quickly forget about those who were murdered.
It seems more and more that our nation lack sanity and justice.
7
The racial disparities in the death penalty cases should be enough evidence for its outlaw. I was sick to my stomach to read about prosecutor Bernie de la Rionda being considered one of the deadliest prosecutors. He obtained more than 25 death sentences over his career. I wonder how well he sleeps at night. I've often wonder what types of childhood these prosecutors had. I am not excusing predators who killers like James Rhodes they should face the stiffest sentences of life in prison without parole.
8
Murderers certainly believe in the death penalty when it comes to their victims. Many believe in torturing their victims to death. Let the punishment be a mirror image of the crime, so that in death they can truly understand the evil and gravity of their crime.
5
I am a native of Alabama currently living in Florida and I have long opposed the death penalty. As I understand it the law passed in response to the Supreme Court ruling is now before the state supreme court to decide its constitutionality. I hope that it will be upheld and Florida can move toward more equitable sentencing in cases where the death penalty is a possibility.
2
Racial bias is a (sometimes difficult to prove) factor and the government should not be in the revenge business - but more clearly the death penalty is inevitably state-sanctioned murder of innocents. Undeniable that mistakes have and will be made, that innocent people have and will be put to death, and in a system/country where we supposedly err on the side of not punishing innocent people - but do - sometimes with death.
Law enforcement should focus more on white collar crime - compensating victims and filling state coffers with ill-gotten gains. NY does a pretty good job of it and other states might follow suit.
Law enforcement should focus more on white collar crime - compensating victims and filling state coffers with ill-gotten gains. NY does a pretty good job of it and other states might follow suit.
2
I didn't realize you needed math skills to know not to execute your robbery victims.
8
His low IQ score makes him ineligible for the death penalty, or it should.
3
NYT still does excellent reporting.
5
The death penalty is a shameful, cruel, and barbaric practice. It has been banned long ago in every EU nation and throughout the Western hemisphere. Like slavery, state executions will be seen as an inexcusable stain on our national history. As a Buddhist, I pray that this disgraceful act may be abolished here in the US and throughout the world. For there is nothing more precious than life itself. To murder another human being is a great wrong, no matter who does it or how bad the person may be. As a human being, it is always possible to regret our past misdeeds and embrace what is good. We can find many examples of this in human history such as Angulimala who murdered 999 people but later became a great Buddhist saint.
1
It's interesting to me thaf so many supporters of the death penalty will argue, for example, that child/sexual abuse is SO HEINOUS of a crime that anyone who perpetrates it should be executed, for visiting such damaging horror on a child...
...and yet, will stubbornly refuse to admit even the possibility that child/sexual abuse could play a factor in the mental state of someone who commits a crime.
Try to wrap your head around this:
Someone can be BOTH a victim of one crime, and a perpetrator of another. And being a victim 100% provably makes you more likely to become a perpetrator. Studies have told us this for DECADES.
Compassion is not a spotlight that you get to selectively shine only on people that you like. It's a beacon, and it must shine on everyone.
...and yet, will stubbornly refuse to admit even the possibility that child/sexual abuse could play a factor in the mental state of someone who commits a crime.
Try to wrap your head around this:
Someone can be BOTH a victim of one crime, and a perpetrator of another. And being a victim 100% provably makes you more likely to become a perpetrator. Studies have told us this for DECADES.
Compassion is not a spotlight that you get to selectively shine only on people that you like. It's a beacon, and it must shine on everyone.
9
The death penalty is applied unevenly because it's reserved for the "most terrible" crimes, but there's no clear metric for "terribleness", and it's completely subjective.
There's still a very real practice--a remnant of the 90's TUFF ON CRIME era--of white prosecutors riding a wave of overly-zealous convictions into higher public office, based on a perception of TUFFNESS. Like, "Elect me; I've killed so many badguys."
There's still a very real practice--a remnant of the 90's TUFF ON CRIME era--of white prosecutors riding a wave of overly-zealous convictions into higher public office, based on a perception of TUFFNESS. Like, "Elect me; I've killed so many badguys."
2
There are costs to be considered. Costs to individuals, to society. Spiritual and emotional costs. Dollars and sense. Common sense.
It's certain that racism is in play in the criminal justice(less) system, along with other inequities. Some police and prosecutors will ruin people's lives just to advance their careers.
But, putting these things aside, the singular issue for me is that this career criminal at the age of 21 needlessly murdered a 20 year old woman on video. The tragedy of his upbringing holds no sway with me. There is no question that he committed this murder, and that he is guilty.
Not only have his actions been a continual drain on society, he took away everything this young woman would have contributed. She may have become a teacher, a foster mother, a person who could have saved someone like him from ending up the way he did.
Dollars and sense. As a society, we have limited resources. It may cost $1M to convict and execute this man. But, it will cost an estimated $1,333K to keep him in prison for the rest of his life. That's a savings of $333K to spend proactively on schools, foster care, and other social service programs to help people like him from becoming murderers. That's more humane in the long run.
I base these figures on the average age of inmates dying in prison being 64 and the average nationwide cost of housing an inmate of $31,000/yr. Some states and cities spend appreciably more. It's $60K for NYS and $168K for NYC.
It's certain that racism is in play in the criminal justice(less) system, along with other inequities. Some police and prosecutors will ruin people's lives just to advance their careers.
But, putting these things aside, the singular issue for me is that this career criminal at the age of 21 needlessly murdered a 20 year old woman on video. The tragedy of his upbringing holds no sway with me. There is no question that he committed this murder, and that he is guilty.
Not only have his actions been a continual drain on society, he took away everything this young woman would have contributed. She may have become a teacher, a foster mother, a person who could have saved someone like him from ending up the way he did.
Dollars and sense. As a society, we have limited resources. It may cost $1M to convict and execute this man. But, it will cost an estimated $1,333K to keep him in prison for the rest of his life. That's a savings of $333K to spend proactively on schools, foster care, and other social service programs to help people like him from becoming murderers. That's more humane in the long run.
I base these figures on the average age of inmates dying in prison being 64 and the average nationwide cost of housing an inmate of $31,000/yr. Some states and cities spend appreciably more. It's $60K for NYS and $168K for NYC.
1
It seems to me as if this article does not make the case for the abolishment of the death penalty but rather that the system created by whites at many levels has made defendants subject to the death penalty at a great disadvantage. So I come away thinking that those gaps identified (all white juries, overaggressive prosecutors, lowly qualified public defenders, etc) are what need to be fixed and not doing away with the death penalty.
1
This article is important because it goes beyond the two traditional anti-death penalty arguments: 1. Gross human error in capital convictions, and 2. The fundamental belief held by many that each of us is far more than the worst thing we have ever done, a line which has grown increasingly prominent as Bryan Stevenson (quoted in the article) has gained more and more popularity.
The piece additionally, and rightfully points out that the draconian punishment should be prohibited too because it has proven to be rich with racism. As Mr. Stevenson often points out, the death penalty is "lynching's child," and as modern capital punishment arose lynchings "moved inside." Couple this with the main theme of the article: the large degree to which state sanctioned death is used in a completely arbitrary fashion, often contingent upon how punitive the prosector and inexperienced the defense, and we are left with what is perhaps Mr. Stevenson's most underrated pearl of wisdom:
"The death penally is not about whether people deserve to die for crimes they commit. The real question of capital punishment in this country is, Do we deserve to kill?"
The piece additionally, and rightfully points out that the draconian punishment should be prohibited too because it has proven to be rich with racism. As Mr. Stevenson often points out, the death penalty is "lynching's child," and as modern capital punishment arose lynchings "moved inside." Couple this with the main theme of the article: the large degree to which state sanctioned death is used in a completely arbitrary fashion, often contingent upon how punitive the prosector and inexperienced the defense, and we are left with what is perhaps Mr. Stevenson's most underrated pearl of wisdom:
"The death penally is not about whether people deserve to die for crimes they commit. The real question of capital punishment in this country is, Do we deserve to kill?"
1
I am not woeful ignorant about the law and wonder if Ms. Corey could be tried for muder.
Sorry, don't get it. Mr. Rhodes blew away a beautiful, helpless, innocent young woman during an armed robbery. What part of "aggravated murder" is unclear? How does he become some kind of poster child for the liberal left? God help us all.
5
The problem here is the slow administration of justice, not whether this killer should be executed, he should be, and asap.
Q1: Have you been in a jail full of lifers? Cons who grew up wards of the state fall naturally into the lifestyle behind bars, within which lifers keep quite busy practicing their social mayhem. It is not a penitent situation, they don't sit and reflect, they run gangs. For an underprivileged person, it may be an upgrade in comparison to the life they've known.
Q2: Why should other convicts have to serve out their time in the midst of the worst most dangerous social predators/killers? In a hard jail, the lifers are fully engaged "running the house." New cons are "recreation" and are preyed upon. They are terrorized, and there is nothing any system of guards can do about it. Young men like Rhodes make doing your time a living hell.
Q3: If you cannot execute a man who kills in cold blood on video tape, where their is extreme cruelty and zero question of guilt, how can you send a person to jail for very long stretches for kidnapping or rape? How can you ask good people to enlist to go fight and kill under the US flag? We are not all Jains, we are not all pacifists and we should not want to be.
Had this young man not been on tape, some other person would be dead by his hand right now. If ever there was a proper candidate for a state mandated homicide punishment, this is one. Work to streamline the process for those clearly guilty beyond a doubt.
Q1: Have you been in a jail full of lifers? Cons who grew up wards of the state fall naturally into the lifestyle behind bars, within which lifers keep quite busy practicing their social mayhem. It is not a penitent situation, they don't sit and reflect, they run gangs. For an underprivileged person, it may be an upgrade in comparison to the life they've known.
Q2: Why should other convicts have to serve out their time in the midst of the worst most dangerous social predators/killers? In a hard jail, the lifers are fully engaged "running the house." New cons are "recreation" and are preyed upon. They are terrorized, and there is nothing any system of guards can do about it. Young men like Rhodes make doing your time a living hell.
Q3: If you cannot execute a man who kills in cold blood on video tape, where their is extreme cruelty and zero question of guilt, how can you send a person to jail for very long stretches for kidnapping or rape? How can you ask good people to enlist to go fight and kill under the US flag? We are not all Jains, we are not all pacifists and we should not want to be.
Had this young man not been on tape, some other person would be dead by his hand right now. If ever there was a proper candidate for a state mandated homicide punishment, this is one. Work to streamline the process for those clearly guilty beyond a doubt.
3
I'd struggled with how I feel about the death penalty in extraordinary cases (e.g., Timothy McVeigh) until, quite honestly, I've come to oppose it unequivocally for a very different reason. Simply, having my life controlled by others - being told when to eat and when to exercise when to be confined to a cell - strikes me as a life not worth living. In other words, I'd rather be dead than be sentenced to life in prison without any hope of freedom, ever. THat made me consider that one reason *for* the death penalty - as the ultimate punishment - meant it was actually a way *out* of the real ultimate punishment.
1
Having grown up and currently living in the "great' state of Texas, I'm come to realize that there is way too much prosecutorial malfeasance, extremely poor counsel representing the defendant, poor police practices and attitudes at times and a court system that provides justice most of the time only with a large bank account. For those reasons alone, I'd bet in many capital murder trials the defendant does not get a fair shake. Of course, there is a fairly large number of people who like it this way so that someone can be punished. For those reasons, I just can't see how capital punishment can be sanctioned by our society. There have been several recent cases in TX in which it came out way too late that junk forensic science was responsible for the execution of innocent people. The prior Dallas DA found in going thru old cases that quite a few convicted defendants were actually innocent based on DNA evidence.
1
What Emily Bazelon did not tell you.
The "seminal study" on race and the death penalty is no longer the Baldus stuffy from 1973 but the 2006 study by Wells, Eisenburg, and Blume
https://www.unc.edu/~fbaum/teaching/articles/BlumeJELS2014.pdf
which, despite its authors (like Bazelon) vocally opposing the death penalty reluctantly point out that many stereotypes of race and capital punishment are just wrong.
Bazelon labels 16 counties as essentially "death factories" populated by overly-aggressive prosecutors and buffoonish defense lawyers. Might make a good lawyer TV show, but by far the biggest county is Los Angeles, where the DA is an African-American woman who's also a Democrat.
In the last 50 years in America three states have given voters a say about the death penalty, two very blue states (Oregon and California) and Wisconsin. In Oregon it took two votes to get the state constitution changed the vote in California was in 2012. The vote in Wisconsin in 2006 was merely advisory and the legislature ignored voters.
I've been prosecuting death penalty cases for 25 years and I'm considered very aggressive yet I've only asked that two killers be executed (one jury agreed, the other did not)
The "seminal study" on race and the death penalty is no longer the Baldus stuffy from 1973 but the 2006 study by Wells, Eisenburg, and Blume
https://www.unc.edu/~fbaum/teaching/articles/BlumeJELS2014.pdf
which, despite its authors (like Bazelon) vocally opposing the death penalty reluctantly point out that many stereotypes of race and capital punishment are just wrong.
Bazelon labels 16 counties as essentially "death factories" populated by overly-aggressive prosecutors and buffoonish defense lawyers. Might make a good lawyer TV show, but by far the biggest county is Los Angeles, where the DA is an African-American woman who's also a Democrat.
In the last 50 years in America three states have given voters a say about the death penalty, two very blue states (Oregon and California) and Wisconsin. In Oregon it took two votes to get the state constitution changed the vote in California was in 2012. The vote in Wisconsin in 2006 was merely advisory and the legislature ignored voters.
I've been prosecuting death penalty cases for 25 years and I'm considered very aggressive yet I've only asked that two killers be executed (one jury agreed, the other did not)
Thank you for the injection of logic in this bizarre discussion where those who commit heinous crimes are somehow forgiven because they were victims. And we wonder why people fight for their 2nd amendment right to own arms.
1
I am surprised that regions of California have sentenced so many people to death.
The 'alarming' fact is that most of the country does not understand why executing a habitual criminal who walks into a convenience store and executes a citizen who gave him everything he asked for is necessary. Why on earth do you think he has a right to live? Career criminals don't care about jail. For them, it is just a place with three hots and a cot and restrictions on when they can go outside. They would prefer to not be in jail, but being in jail is simply no big deal.
Execution is the only reasonable alternative. 'Life without parole'? Who wants to pay for them for the next 80 years so they can live long after the people they killed are nothing but mud?
There are only two problems with capital punishment. One, every now and then, we falsely convict someone. So we need to make the burden of proof stronger in capital cases. AND, two, once that burden of proof is shored up, we need to execute them faster. If 19 year old kids thought they would be executed next year (rather than twenty years from now), they might not squeeze the trigger so fast.
Execution is the only reasonable alternative. 'Life without parole'? Who wants to pay for them for the next 80 years so they can live long after the people they killed are nothing but mud?
There are only two problems with capital punishment. One, every now and then, we falsely convict someone. So we need to make the burden of proof stronger in capital cases. AND, two, once that burden of proof is shored up, we need to execute them faster. If 19 year old kids thought they would be executed next year (rather than twenty years from now), they might not squeeze the trigger so fast.
1
'The people who get the death penalty tend to live in places with overaggressive prosecutors and defense lawyers who aren’t up to the task of defending against them — that’s a double whammy,” says Robert J. Smith...'
that about sums it up. paid to convict or a vindictive pleasure in convicting, and underpaid to defend. the rest of the article seems like only anecdote to outside observers, although i am sure not to the farah family.
life in prison still works for the inhumane, insane (sometimes drug-fueled) murders, and it prevents the over-aggressive state from pursuing the higher cost (read: higher paid) cases. a fair and just punishment--which is especially important to try to achieve in emotional, sickening, horrendous cases--at the lowest cost to society.
that about sums it up. paid to convict or a vindictive pleasure in convicting, and underpaid to defend. the rest of the article seems like only anecdote to outside observers, although i am sure not to the farah family.
life in prison still works for the inhumane, insane (sometimes drug-fueled) murders, and it prevents the over-aggressive state from pursuing the higher cost (read: higher paid) cases. a fair and just punishment--which is especially important to try to achieve in emotional, sickening, horrendous cases--at the lowest cost to society.
Life in prison without the possibility of parole for heinous capital murders is a devastating sentence. No matter how depraved the murderer is, it simply does not make sense to assess the death penalty. It often costs more than a million dollars to take a death penalty case from trial to execution, not to mention that it also can take as long as 15 or 20 years. This means that every time the defendant files a collateral habeas corpus appeal, the victim's family and friends are put through the emotional ringer again. And then there is the established fact that several people have been exonerated even as they waited for the date of their execution to be set. I am an attorney. I use to be pro-death penalty for those murders who are truly depraved (like the father who, angry with his estranged wife, sexual assaulted and then murdered his infant son by stepping on the baby's head, crushing the skull). But I have come to realize that it is too easy to end up sending an innocent person to death row--a mistake that can't be corrected once the sentence is carried out. Besides which, I cannot imagine the horror of spending 60 or 70 years sitting in a small cell--day after day.
When reading this article I am just very surprised that a fairer justice system is not on any agenda Of any presidential candidate this presidencial election
2
Because it a state issue not a federal one.
1
That the death penalty is irredeemably flawed is clear. Per the article, decisions about death sentences are totally arbitrary. They depend on where you are, how much money you have and what color your skin is, among other things. Any one of those reasons should be reason enough to stop it.
Other points:
1. The death penalty doesn't deter crime. It didn't stop James Rhodes. After a life of neglect, abuse, crime, and drug use, it's no surprise he didn't think about the consequences before killing. And as the author notes: "Many of the [high-execution] counties have high numbers of murders..." So what's the point?
2. Pro-death people spare no expense to kill criminals and other people they don't like. But if you ask them to spend more to care for and educate people like James Rhodes when they're still kids, they claim it's too expensive. Well, researchers have found kids who go to preschool are 70% less likely to be arrested for a violent crime by age 18. Universal pre-K would cost just a fraction of what we spend on prisons each year.
Bottom line: We're quick to spend money on a useless act of revenge after a crime, but we don't want to do anything to prevent crimes from happening in the first place. Imagine a world where James Rhodes had been cared for instead of starved and molested. Shelby Farah would be alive. Taxpayers wouldn't be paying to perpetuate a racist penal system. That sounds more like justice than spending millions of dollars to kill a murderer.
Other points:
1. The death penalty doesn't deter crime. It didn't stop James Rhodes. After a life of neglect, abuse, crime, and drug use, it's no surprise he didn't think about the consequences before killing. And as the author notes: "Many of the [high-execution] counties have high numbers of murders..." So what's the point?
2. Pro-death people spare no expense to kill criminals and other people they don't like. But if you ask them to spend more to care for and educate people like James Rhodes when they're still kids, they claim it's too expensive. Well, researchers have found kids who go to preschool are 70% less likely to be arrested for a violent crime by age 18. Universal pre-K would cost just a fraction of what we spend on prisons each year.
Bottom line: We're quick to spend money on a useless act of revenge after a crime, but we don't want to do anything to prevent crimes from happening in the first place. Imagine a world where James Rhodes had been cared for instead of starved and molested. Shelby Farah would be alive. Taxpayers wouldn't be paying to perpetuate a racist penal system. That sounds more like justice than spending millions of dollars to kill a murderer.
I agree with the thrust of this article, both that capital punishment is applied capriciously in this country, and that its application varies substantially by geographic region. That said, I have to take exception to the math underpinning the 'Deadliest Counties' graphic.
The reasoning here suffers from a substantial logical flaw in its presumption that these regions are comparable based solely on the fact that they are all counties. As both humans and jellyfish are animals, there are universal truths applicable to both, but upon examination, you will likely find a couple of differences... To compare things that are dissimilar, or, at best, marginally similar, they must be weighted.
By population and capital case count, Los Angeles County tops the list; but the per capita case rate is 1 per 307,000 residents. Comparatively, Caddo Parish, the least populous on the list, has the highest rate at 1 per 51,000. A randomly selected person from Caddo Par. is six times as likely to be sentenced to death than one from L.A. Co. And while Miami-Dade Co. makes the cut with 5 sentences; its per cap. rate (1:499,200) is one-twentieth that of a county with average population (~100k) and 4 sentences, which wouldn't make it onto the list at all.
When used correctly, statistics can be incredibly informative. Unfortunately, many published analyses are errant at best, and actively deceptive at worst, due to flaws in their logic and application.
The reasoning here suffers from a substantial logical flaw in its presumption that these regions are comparable based solely on the fact that they are all counties. As both humans and jellyfish are animals, there are universal truths applicable to both, but upon examination, you will likely find a couple of differences... To compare things that are dissimilar, or, at best, marginally similar, they must be weighted.
By population and capital case count, Los Angeles County tops the list; but the per capita case rate is 1 per 307,000 residents. Comparatively, Caddo Parish, the least populous on the list, has the highest rate at 1 per 51,000. A randomly selected person from Caddo Par. is six times as likely to be sentenced to death than one from L.A. Co. And while Miami-Dade Co. makes the cut with 5 sentences; its per cap. rate (1:499,200) is one-twentieth that of a county with average population (~100k) and 4 sentences, which wouldn't make it onto the list at all.
When used correctly, statistics can be incredibly informative. Unfortunately, many published analyses are errant at best, and actively deceptive at worst, due to flaws in their logic and application.
Seems to me that death is entirely appropriate in this case.
1
The purpose of incareration is to protect the innocent. Guarantee that a convicted killer will not be released early or pardoned, and I would completely oppose the death penalty- but no executed perp has ever perped again. Keep em locked up and support for the death penalty would quickly erode.
I have never understood how the decision to end a person's life could be subject to the vagaries of geographic boundaries and personal ambition, which in some cases knows no bounds. The death penalty is barbaric, plain and simple. The fact that even one person has been wrongly put to death should have been enough to shame us into ending capital punishment long ago.
Emily Bazelon, an articulate and dedicated opponent of capital punishment, has served up a bouillabaisse of attacks, mostly mythical, against the death penalty, elected prosecutors she wants defeated, and the prosecution of younger killers as adults.
First her claim that a tiny number of states now hand down death sentences is simply not true. In my own - very blue and progressive -state of Oregon juries continue to judiciously I,pose death sentences our Governors and other elites are intent on never letting it be carried out. White capital murderers are more likely to be executed than African-American murderers. NO U.S. state has abolished the death penalty by popular vote. To the contrary, the three state where voters were asked in the last 30 years - Wisconsin, California, and Oregon all affirmed voters support, as recently as 2012.
Then Bazelon drops in the extremely rare cases where a few states allow younger juveniles to be tried as adults (17 year olds are routinely described as "children") Through the efforts of Bryan Stevenson of the Equal Justice Initiative the U.S. Supreme Court has essentially banned the use of life without parole for juvenile murderers (many states, including Oregon, had already banned possible death penalties for murders committed by someone under 18)
It is not without irony that the "true life" option has been advanced at the "civilized" alternative for capital punishment.
First her claim that a tiny number of states now hand down death sentences is simply not true. In my own - very blue and progressive -state of Oregon juries continue to judiciously I,pose death sentences our Governors and other elites are intent on never letting it be carried out. White capital murderers are more likely to be executed than African-American murderers. NO U.S. state has abolished the death penalty by popular vote. To the contrary, the three state where voters were asked in the last 30 years - Wisconsin, California, and Oregon all affirmed voters support, as recently as 2012.
Then Bazelon drops in the extremely rare cases where a few states allow younger juveniles to be tried as adults (17 year olds are routinely described as "children") Through the efforts of Bryan Stevenson of the Equal Justice Initiative the U.S. Supreme Court has essentially banned the use of life without parole for juvenile murderers (many states, including Oregon, had already banned possible death penalties for murders committed by someone under 18)
It is not without irony that the "true life" option has been advanced at the "civilized" alternative for capital punishment.
1
A common theme throughout these comments, and in the article itself, is that Jame Rhodes and many other criminals sentenced to death are the product of broken homes, poverty, neglect, abuse and so forth, coupled with the argument that society failed them, so society should not put them to death.
What disturbs me about this argument is that the vast majority of people from broken homes, poverty, neglect, abuse and so forth, are NOT criminals--for example James Rhodes' siblings.
This demeans the majority who have overcome all the same difficulties James Rhodes was unable to overcome, and who didn't shoot an innocent woman down in cold blood.
What disturbs me about this argument is that the vast majority of people from broken homes, poverty, neglect, abuse and so forth, are NOT criminals--for example James Rhodes' siblings.
This demeans the majority who have overcome all the same difficulties James Rhodes was unable to overcome, and who didn't shoot an innocent woman down in cold blood.
3
Most people who have had a much more disadvantaged upbringing than James Rhodes don't go out and brutally murder people. On the other hand, there are people who are raised in privileged circumstances who do commit cold-blooded murder, That suggests to me that there are people who are inherently evil who have no qualms whatsoever about taking another person's life regardless of their socialisation. The oponents of the death penalty argue that capital punishment is barbaric and that the state does not have the right to take life. The question I ask myself is it any less barbaric to sentence someone to life in a cell that is perhaps 4 steps long and 3 steps wide? And hasn't the state often made avid use of its right to take life when it drafts young (innocent) men to send them off to war and die, as in the case of Vietnam? What do you do with incorrigible menaces to society? Squander enormous financial resources on them instead of putting those same resources into medical research to save lives or into better education? Proponents argue that the death penalty has an extremely positive effect on recidivism, but it also claims the lives of those who have been wrongly convicted, and devastates the lives of the loved ones left behind. This is an issue that raises so many questions that have no clear cut, easy moral answers.
2
I'm convinced that barbarism begets barbarism. Our military and CIA illegally assassinates by drone people who we know little about. There is a quite long list of countries whose governments we have sanctimoniously destroyed and destabilbized. U.S. special forces were deployed to 135 countries in 2015. Domestically, our police all too often brutalize our citizens, especially those of color. And many Americans applaud this. Those who require some goervment benefits, e.g.TANF or SNAP, are regarded as unworthy. Is it any wonder that, with all the government sanctioned violence and general mistreatment, an impressionable citizen occasionally commits similar or even worse crimes. It's all OK, right?
If Norway can impose "only" a 21 year sentence of very humane incarceration for Anders Breivik, a man who carried out a bombing in Oslo and a cold-blooded shooting spree, which claimed 77 lives (mostly children), it seems that the U.S. could eliminate the death penalty at the very least. In addition, there is some evidence that Norway's system of restorative justice is better at reducing crime than our own.
If Norway can impose "only" a 21 year sentence of very humane incarceration for Anders Breivik, a man who carried out a bombing in Oslo and a cold-blooded shooting spree, which claimed 77 lives (mostly children), it seems that the U.S. could eliminate the death penalty at the very least. In addition, there is some evidence that Norway's system of restorative justice is better at reducing crime than our own.
1
I would ask those commentators who so readily embrace capital punishment and "an eye for an eye . . . " to take a step back just for a moment and imagine trading places with the wretched lives of those highlighted in this article.
That fact alone, coupled with a justice system meted out unevenly in this country whereby juvenile defendants in certain counties be over-charged for their crimes by over-zealous, self-righteous, sanctimonious prosecutors with the full complicity of inept public defenders, should give anyone pause.
And for those of you still enamored of capital punishment, I would pose this question: How is it that so zealous a prosecutor as Angela Corey failed to successfully prosecute George Zimmerman in the murder of Trayvon Martin? I would posit that she deliberately over-charged Zimmerman in order to secure an acquittal. The victim, Trayvon Martin, a young black teen, did not fit into either hers or her largely white constituencies' idea of a victim. It's no coincidence that Governor Rick Scott specially appointed Corey (plucked from Duval County, far from her jurisdiction), a prosecutor with one of the best records for convicting African Americans, to head the Zimmerman prosecution. Angela Corey never intended to "successfully" prosecute a white defendant for murdering a black boy. (And she likewise largely failed at prosecuting white defendant Michael Dunn for the murder of another black teen over loud music.)
Equal justice for all? I think not.
That fact alone, coupled with a justice system meted out unevenly in this country whereby juvenile defendants in certain counties be over-charged for their crimes by over-zealous, self-righteous, sanctimonious prosecutors with the full complicity of inept public defenders, should give anyone pause.
And for those of you still enamored of capital punishment, I would pose this question: How is it that so zealous a prosecutor as Angela Corey failed to successfully prosecute George Zimmerman in the murder of Trayvon Martin? I would posit that she deliberately over-charged Zimmerman in order to secure an acquittal. The victim, Trayvon Martin, a young black teen, did not fit into either hers or her largely white constituencies' idea of a victim. It's no coincidence that Governor Rick Scott specially appointed Corey (plucked from Duval County, far from her jurisdiction), a prosecutor with one of the best records for convicting African Americans, to head the Zimmerman prosecution. Angela Corey never intended to "successfully" prosecute a white defendant for murdering a black boy. (And she likewise largely failed at prosecuting white defendant Michael Dunn for the murder of another black teen over loud music.)
Equal justice for all? I think not.
1
My objection to the death penalty arises from the results of the innocent project which has freed over 100 prisoners from death row. Prosecutors seek death penalties for political self interest rather than in the pursuit of justice in many cases. Life in prison without parole and no contact with the outside world serve the interest of justice and eliminate the chance of an innocent person being executed as I'm sure has occurred on many occasions.
I wonder how many innocent people that zealot Corey has put in prison to rot - just disgusting what goes on this country.
1
It upsets me that one of the most important uses of the death penalty is never mentioned in such articles -- the fact that it can be used as leverage to force a defendant to plea guilty to a lesser charge. Many people charged with crimes are indeed guilty and plea bargaining is (for better or worse) the way most cases are resolved. I don't like the death penalty in theory -- at all. But we don't live in theory, we live in practice. Justice happens when we take care of children so that they don't become homeless, drug addicted, abused and involved in gangs. Justice happens when we keep guns locked up in homes and off the streets and away from criminals (can anyone imagine that this kid would have gotten his hands dirty by killing her with anything other than a gun). Justice happens when murderers go to prison for their crimes and when kids who take jobs in low-income areas aren't shot just for coming to work. I don't care whether the death penalty is good or bad in theory -- only whether it does or does not help us as a society achieve justice.
The death penalty is an abomination to civil society, but we are far from civilized in the USA, aren't we?
1
I agree with the premise of the article. The death penalty should be administered more widely and to a broader cross section of the populace that is guilty of similar crimes. There.
Now, is there any question about the murderer in this article? He killed this girl AFTER he got the money. He could have just turned around and walked away. It was completely gratuitous. Tough childhood? So what. Plenty of people have had the same or worse and aren't killers.
Now, is there any question about the murderer in this article? He killed this girl AFTER he got the money. He could have just turned around and walked away. It was completely gratuitous. Tough childhood? So what. Plenty of people have had the same or worse and aren't killers.
3
I'd rather see the death penalty expanded to be automatically assigned to all adult first-degree murderers than to see these "worst of the worst" killers not given the punishment they deserve (and make no mistake, Rhodes, and anyone else who willfully murders, is also a member of society's "worst of the worst").
This sounds only too familiar. When we moved to Oklahoma in 1982, the district attorney was only 2 years into his first term. But over 21 years, "Cowboy Bob" Macy oversaw 54 capital convictions. It was almost a weekly event that when one turned on the evening news, there was Cowboy Bob telling the audience that he was seeking the death penalty in the case under review by his office. He even brought his gun to the courtroom. When he stepped down in 2001, I thought that we had turned a page in the Wild West justice show, but no, his long-time assistant, David Prater, took over and has been there ever since. I'm afraid this will not change until people in the county, and those in others like them, undergo a change of mind, and see that justice rather than retribution is the goal.
I have mixed feeling about cases like this. On the one hand the world would be a better place with the man no longer alive. Killing that young girl for no reason cost him his right to exist. I'm not sure if his the worst of the worst but his is certainly bad enough. But our current process where it can take decades to execute someone who is clearly guilty is absurd and wasteful both in costs and the time of lawyers on both sides. So I'm fine with with life without parole in these cases but reject the idea that defendant doesn't deserve to die.
3
It is this type of superb article that keeps me subscribing to the NY times.
NO matter what your belief about Capital punishment , we must constantly reevaluate our opinions. All shoulder read and reevaluate.
NO matter what your belief about Capital punishment , we must constantly reevaluate our opinions. All shoulder read and reevaluate.
What's so alarming if the sentences aren't carried out?
I have been in San Quentin every week for 5 years now doing restorative justice work with the men there. Many men I know are incarcerated for murder. Many of these men have spent more than 15 to 25 years living in prison. We call these places "Penitentiaries" after the place where they placed monks in the middle ages to reflect on their acts, and 15+ years of this refection has a huge impact on these men. They have not been present with their children as they grew up or with their their parents as they died. Out of our Restorative Justice work and the experience of their friends', not to mention their own families', deaths by violence, they know personally what their actions have done and cost them. All this is not to say that there are individuals who really need to be segregated from society in our prisons, but my own personal sense is that many people are being kept in prison much longer than is any way useful when they could in fact be wise advocates for the the very different life-style they have learned contemplating their lives in prison.
Justice is completely lost in all of this. For a time. As a 16 year old high school junior in 1966 I read an article about public support for the death penalty reaching an all-time low I just refreshed my memory. This is from the Death Penalty Information Center (DPIC): "Support for the death penalty has fluctuated throughout the century. According to Gallup surveys, in 1936 61% of Americans favored the death penalty for persons convicted of murder. Support reached an all-time low of 42% in 1966." At age 16 knew all the arguments for and against the death penalty and that poll gave me hope that we would leave the group nations so barbarous as those then carrying out capital punishment. I am aware of the turn toward conservatism by the Republican party in the years before and after 1966. Only the U.S. Supreme Court can settle the matter for a lengthy period of time. Thanks to all the defense attorneys who take up these cases paid or voluntarily. Of all things we should attempt to keep solitary confinement to a minimum as in many cases it amounts to torture.
I don't mind saying I was in tears as I got farther into your story. Thanks for the reporting.
I don't mind saying I was in tears as I got farther into your story. Thanks for the reporting.
3
I'm not some bleeding heart liberal (liberal, yes though.) But how can anyone read about that child's (criminal's) life and believe that death is justice for him? My heart breaks that our society is so unfair that we cannot do better for children of poverty and broken homes, children the world prefers to forget till the (inevitable) crime is committed. Why wouldn't enlightened self-interest alone lead us to do better? Wouldn't doing the right thing even be cheaper, if we must consider that, in the long run?
2
The American justice system is broken. Between overzealous prosecutors pandering to the public, poor public defenders, rampant racism, vengeance instead of fairness as a guiding principle and personal biases instead of objective legal analysis, a fair trial seems like a unrealistic dream for anyone accused of a crime. If you are African-American you are really in trouble.
Prosecutors like Angela Corey are found all over the country. They don't want justice, they want to win their cases and to have the maximum punishment meted out. The lust for vengeance makes the US justice system look like something you would find in a banana republic or third world autocratic regime.
Prosecutors like Angela Corey are found all over the country. They don't want justice, they want to win their cases and to have the maximum punishment meted out. The lust for vengeance makes the US justice system look like something you would find in a banana republic or third world autocratic regime.
6
I think there should be a much higher burden of proof for capital punishment, but in this case there is no doubt who the killer was. I frankly don't care about Rhodes' background. He did a monstrous thing taking an innocent young life. His life story doesn't make him less of a monster and he deserves to die. End of story.
4
"I frankly don't care about Rhodes' background."
Well, I guess that tells us something about you and how you view your fellow humans. If we really want a society where murder and violence are virtually nonexistent, we only make it that much harder to achieve that goal when people cling to such stolid and indurated beliefs.
While you or I may not be able to imagine it, there may be a time in the future where a friend or family member does something terrible, makes a horrible mistake, or acts without compassion or conscience. Would you completely abandon them, with zero hesitation or reflection, and refuse to consider any and all circumstances in life, prior to that unspeakable act.
I honestly can't predict how I would feel, or act, if such a heartbreaking tragedy was committed by someone I know and love. It's impossible to say and I truly hope it never happens to me, or to you. But I feel sad and genuinely sorry for you that you could be so callous, and merciless in your view on this.
Well, I guess that tells us something about you and how you view your fellow humans. If we really want a society where murder and violence are virtually nonexistent, we only make it that much harder to achieve that goal when people cling to such stolid and indurated beliefs.
While you or I may not be able to imagine it, there may be a time in the future where a friend or family member does something terrible, makes a horrible mistake, or acts without compassion or conscience. Would you completely abandon them, with zero hesitation or reflection, and refuse to consider any and all circumstances in life, prior to that unspeakable act.
I honestly can't predict how I would feel, or act, if such a heartbreaking tragedy was committed by someone I know and love. It's impossible to say and I truly hope it never happens to me, or to you. But I feel sad and genuinely sorry for you that you could be so callous, and merciless in your view on this.
Darlene Farah is a wise compassionate woman.
Angela Corey is not.
Angela Corey is not.
Good article, don't elect Cory, yes challenges / problems with the death penalty. But for me, in the first paragraph, "Rhodes pointed a gun at her and demanded the money in the cash register. Shelby gave it to him. Then Rhodes shot her in the head. She was 20 years old. He was 21."
-- Rhodes should be put to death...
-- Rhodes should be put to death...
5
Death penalty proponents: Please understand that no one is saying what Rhodes did was inhuman, atrocious and unjustifiable. What we are debating is that, as a society, are we morally justified in killing him or putting him away for life; does the state have the right to kill criminals when the penalty is applied on the whim of judges and juries, with inequitable representation, and do we accept that the state, IN OUR NAME, can and has executed innocent people? This should concern people.
None of us are saying what he did is excusable. We are not advocating that he be let go any time. He has to be put away forever.
None of us are saying what he did is excusable. We are not advocating that he be let go any time. He has to be put away forever.
2
The criminal justice system in this country is broken. If you are poor and/or a non-white you are in real trouble. The death penalty is unconstitutional. Maybe with a new justice appointed by Hillary we can do away with it.
2
At the start of the article, the defendant is identified as black. The journalist did not assign a racial tag to the victim. This racial naming supports the norm of whiteness, which in turn is the foundation of institutional racism. This is an unfortunate start to an excellent piece about the injustice, including racial injustice, of the death penalty.
2
The victim, Shelby Farah, was described as being from a family of Palestinian descent. This identifies her racial/ethnic group
I think the basic statistic here is questionable. I imagine there is so much variability in cases for any five year period that many of these counties wouldn't be in the top fifteen is another time period was used and many other counties would take their place.
Instead of the death penalty, make it impossible for men like Rhodes to get their hands on guns. Get rid of guns: bankrupt the NRA, dissolve it, render it impotent.
http://www.thecriticalmom.blogspot.com
http://www.thecriticalmom.blogspot.com
4
This is an excellent and informative article, which shows very clearly how and why the death penalty is still alive in a small number of counties in the US. In my opinion this is Pulitzer Prize worthy journalism.
2
On one hand, I'm against the death penalty.
On the other hand...shoots a young woman in the head, unprovoked, after robbing her at gunpoint? Not the "worst of the worst"?
The imposition of the death penalty tells us about a community. So does shooting a young woman in the head.
On the other hand...shoots a young woman in the head, unprovoked, after robbing her at gunpoint? Not the "worst of the worst"?
The imposition of the death penalty tells us about a community. So does shooting a young woman in the head.
3
Bias on the news page. Maybe the "alarming thing" is that the rest of the country is NOT using the death penalty.
3
Ms Corey - how dare you show a video of Ms Farah to her very young brother who was a minor at the time of the mother, without his mother's consent. What is wrong with you. Are you going to stick around to pick up the pieces in this family that you are trying to break for your own convictions? Of course not.
I don't have strong feelings about the death penalty, but it should seem that the victim's family's desires for vengeance or peace should Raleigh heavily in your decision. Traumatizing a young adult in pain the way you did is immoral. You should rethink what it means to do your job in a moral fashion. Awful.
I don't have strong feelings about the death penalty, but it should seem that the victim's family's desires for vengeance or peace should Raleigh heavily in your decision. Traumatizing a young adult in pain the way you did is immoral. You should rethink what it means to do your job in a moral fashion. Awful.
2
Up front: I'm against the death penalty in principle. I believe that human life is sacred, even the lives of those who have done horrible evil. Imprisonment for the two purposes of punishment of the criminal and protection of society is certainly warranted, but not death. I suspect that mine is a minority view, perhaps even minuscule. A case for abolition that is politically stronger than mine can be made, though, because as it is currently being applied in the U.S. the death penalty has demonstrable flaws:
* It is racist.
* That several death-row inmates have been exonerated on the basis on incontrovertible evidence that proves their innocence is an uncontested fact. This is proof that the criminal justice system, while arguably the best in the world, is not infallible. The number of those so exonerated is such that it is not tenable to believe that some innocent people were not rescued in time.
* There is no evidence that shows that it deters crime.
* It is cruel. When lethal injection came into vogue some decades ago it was touted as a "humane" method, in which the person just quietly "goes to sleep" and then dies in his sleep. This has proven to be horribly incorrect. There is no "humane" way to kill.
One of the very sad things about it is, it announces that we've given up. To the horrible problem of violence in our society we have no solution that is better than doing violence.
* It is racist.
* That several death-row inmates have been exonerated on the basis on incontrovertible evidence that proves their innocence is an uncontested fact. This is proof that the criminal justice system, while arguably the best in the world, is not infallible. The number of those so exonerated is such that it is not tenable to believe that some innocent people were not rescued in time.
* There is no evidence that shows that it deters crime.
* It is cruel. When lethal injection came into vogue some decades ago it was touted as a "humane" method, in which the person just quietly "goes to sleep" and then dies in his sleep. This has proven to be horribly incorrect. There is no "humane" way to kill.
One of the very sad things about it is, it announces that we've given up. To the horrible problem of violence in our society we have no solution that is better than doing violence.
2
It's odd that this "new" argument based on geography so studiously ignores geography. The 15 counties in question are in _the South_. People in Peoria have no idea (absolutely no idea) how brutal the drug gangs have made the border areas. Why is it such a revelation that high-crime areas have more crime?
5
The case in point has nothing to do with gangs or Jacksonville Florida being close to a border go troll somewhere else.
So, society failed this man and he became a murderer.
What do we do with people like that?
Can they be "fixed" somehow?
I doubt it.
So what do we do - drop them on an island in the middle of the ocean and somehow turn them into a self-sustaining society?
What do we do with people like that?
Can they be "fixed" somehow?
I doubt it.
So what do we do - drop them on an island in the middle of the ocean and somehow turn them into a self-sustaining society?
2
This young man was given a death sentence when he was born. When are we going to start addressing the roots of the criminal problems by setting up educational programs, job opportunity and compassionate care for those in need, from childhood to death? Let's get democrats elected in these states and get people on the supreme court who believe in compassionate programs rather than abandonment and punishment.
This is just another example of why we need Federal Law to run this country - instead of 50 individual states responsible for making laws influenced by local patterns of bigotry and racism and economic standing. The States Rights that were established when this country was founded were reasonable in light of the lack of mass transportation, communication and police/military protection that could be offered to those original 13 colonies. It is no longer efficient or reasonable or responsible for the citizens of this country to be treated with vastly different "due process" simply on where a person happens to reside. We are ONE COUNTRY and we should be governed by ONE SET OF LAWS.
1
I strongly oppose the death penalty, but our current model does not allow for much better options. As a psychiatrist in a high-acuity urban setting, I see young men like James Rhodes every day. I believe he is sincerely sorry for his actions, and I just as strongly believe that he would be likely to commit the same or a similar crime if he was released after serving time in our current justice system. You cannot undo years of abuse and neglect without a similar investment of time - years - and the hundreds of thousands of dollars it would take to actually rehabilitate someone so lost.
The tragedy of Ms. Farah's death is paralleled by the tragedy of Mr. Rhodes' life, and it is dismaying to me but unfortunately no longer shocking that our government will spend hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars reacting to the former but not even a small fraction of that amount preventing the latter. The return on investment from providing safety, supervision and education to a child growing up in Mr. Rhodes' situation would be a Wall Street investor's wet dream, but since the returns are made to society as a whole and not to a small group of ultrawealthy individuals, it's totally impossible to accomplish.
Until we as a society not only realize that we are all invested in each other's well-being, but start demanding our leaders act like it, these stories will continue to be written over and over.
The tragedy of Ms. Farah's death is paralleled by the tragedy of Mr. Rhodes' life, and it is dismaying to me but unfortunately no longer shocking that our government will spend hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars reacting to the former but not even a small fraction of that amount preventing the latter. The return on investment from providing safety, supervision and education to a child growing up in Mr. Rhodes' situation would be a Wall Street investor's wet dream, but since the returns are made to society as a whole and not to a small group of ultrawealthy individuals, it's totally impossible to accomplish.
Until we as a society not only realize that we are all invested in each other's well-being, but start demanding our leaders act like it, these stories will continue to be written over and over.
6
Let's not forget about the millions of folks that are raped, abused, ill-educated, etc, etc, who NEVER commit a misdemeanor much less murder anyone. What about them?
3
Condolences to the Farah family. This is an over and over again scenario of desperate poverty destroying children with tragic endings. Rhodes had no parenting, no food, abuse, terrible education, no love or role models. Caring for these neglected children so they have a fair shot at growing up well is complex when the parents fail, but no more complex than overseas wars or researching cancer. It is a matter of priority and will. Rhodes is the result of fragmented, broken system, a lack of genuine caring. We can do better.
3
Rather than wasting all that money on trying to win a death sentence toss these killers in jail for life and invest the money in improving gun control. Reducing guns in the US reduces death people.
3
Angela Corey is a disgrace - note the 'loophole' referred to below was created by one of her fellow Republicans -- who also disenfranchised hundreds of thousands of Florida voters:
"No Democrat is running for state attorney or public defender in Duval County, leaving the general election in November uncontested. That means the Republican primary will decide both races. In such a circumstance, Florida law calls for opening the primary to voters of all parties. But there’s a loophole (created by Florida’s former secretary of state Katherine Harris, of Bush v. Gore notoriety): The primary closes if a write-in candidate files for the general election, even though he or she will be represented on the ballot only by a blank box.
In May, Corey’s campaign manager filed papers for the write-in candidacy of a Corey supporter. (A write-in candidate also entered the public-defender race.) Facing criticism for shutting out 440,000 Democratic and independent voters, including 96 percent of eligible black voters, Corey said she knew nothing about her campaign manager’s actions...."
Corey 'knew nothing' about her own campaign manager's actions. Right.
"No Democrat is running for state attorney or public defender in Duval County, leaving the general election in November uncontested. That means the Republican primary will decide both races. In such a circumstance, Florida law calls for opening the primary to voters of all parties. But there’s a loophole (created by Florida’s former secretary of state Katherine Harris, of Bush v. Gore notoriety): The primary closes if a write-in candidate files for the general election, even though he or she will be represented on the ballot only by a blank box.
In May, Corey’s campaign manager filed papers for the write-in candidacy of a Corey supporter. (A write-in candidate also entered the public-defender race.) Facing criticism for shutting out 440,000 Democratic and independent voters, including 96 percent of eligible black voters, Corey said she knew nothing about her campaign manager’s actions...."
Corey 'knew nothing' about her own campaign manager's actions. Right.
4
What a damning portrayal of Angela Corey. Gunners for the death penalty like her have no place in today's "justice" system.
2
Mr. Rhodes is on video administering the death penalty to Ms. Farah. The rightful penalty is death. If I want Dylan Roof to be executed, Mr. Rhodes should be executed as well. Two murderers who by killing have ceded their right to live. Mr. Rhodes is not the type of case where you find fault with the death penalty. His case was made for the death penalty.
5
This tells you everything you need to know about those states, particularly Texas.
Don't shoot another person in the head in cold blood and you will not need to worry about your treatment by the criminal justice system. As Abraham Lincoln said, "He reminds me of the man who murdered his parents and begged for mercy on the grounds he was an orphan."
5
This is America's greatest tragedy, repeated over and over like some punishment from the Greek gods. The family failures and racial inequities that lead to murder and execution seem unfixable.
As someone who lives in Tx, we hear a lot of stories about death penalty cases. I am opposed to the death penalty. The bad defense attornies, the overzealous prosecutors, the exonerations, the misconduct, there is no doubt in my mind, just based on the exonerations alone, that Texas has executed an innocent person. The Cameron Todd Willingham case has raised enough doubt to give me pause. There are so many things wrong with the US/Tx justice system (election of judges? weird!) that they would need to totally reorganize the justice system and the death penalty for me to even think they are in the ball park of getting it right. The US justice system is simply not up to the standard required to have the death penalty.
3
I would like to see if this disparity in application of the death penalty can be challenged through a wider interpretation of the 14th amendment's requirement that no person be deprived of "life, liberty or property" without "equal protection of the laws." With such a disparity in application of the death penalty between even counties within the same state, such an interpretation might be justified.
2
Upbringing doesn't matter. Racism doesn't matter. Poverty doesn't matter. If you commit a heinous crime you stand to be judged and sometimes that might mean a death penalty. If you want to completely avoid the death penalty, I suggest that you completely avoid committing a heinous act. Come on, it's not like this guy was sentenced to death for stealing bread while hungry - he executed someone in cold blood.
2
I'm always sickened to realize we don't have a 'justice' system at all. It's a rigged system, rigged against blacks, the poor, the disadvantaged as almost all our systems are rigged. We should abolish the death penalty because we are incapable as a nation of applying it in any way resembling fair and because ambitious District/State attorneys rack up their death penalty convictions as proof of their competence and toughness.
2
The arguments that the death penalty is unfairly applied and disproportionately to racial minorities is a valid one in my view; but if anything, it seems the response should be more death penalty prosecutions across the board, if the facts fit.
The killer described in this article surely deserves it. He killed this girl during a robbery, indeed, AFTER he got the money. It was a purely evil act. Tough childhood? Maybe, but so what? Lots of people went through what he did and aren't murderers.
No good will come from warehousing him for the next 50 years.
The killer described in this article surely deserves it. He killed this girl during a robbery, indeed, AFTER he got the money. It was a purely evil act. Tough childhood? Maybe, but so what? Lots of people went through what he did and aren't murderers.
No good will come from warehousing him for the next 50 years.
2
The real criminal act that occurred was the upbringing of Rhodes. Once he became of age the damage was done. It is far easer and more productive and effective to put effort into saving many who are children today than to resolve a case like the one presented.
The real problem is racism and the real solution is to accept the fact that we need solutions that are agreeable to both conservative as well a liberal people. As long as there is a liberal mindset of punishment to conservatives with no regard to the results these practices produce these problems and others will continue and blacks will pay the price.
The real problem is racism and the real solution is to accept the fact that we need solutions that are agreeable to both conservative as well a liberal people. As long as there is a liberal mindset of punishment to conservatives with no regard to the results these practices produce these problems and others will continue and blacks will pay the price.
Great article, felt like it could have delved deeper as to the backgrounds of all the prosecutors in these "high kill" counties.
Is there a common thread? Are they similar to Angela Corey? Is there an element of sociopathy, a sort of state- sanctioned serial killer, dressed in the robes of officialdom?
Is there a common thread? Are they similar to Angela Corey? Is there an element of sociopathy, a sort of state- sanctioned serial killer, dressed in the robes of officialdom?
Great journalism like this is why I subscribe to the New York Times.
You'd hope that candidates Clinton and Trump would read this article -- they are both supporters of the death penalty.
You'd hope that candidates Clinton and Trump would read this article -- they are both supporters of the death penalty.
What stands out politically in this article is the Prosecutor Corey helping game and hobble the public defenders office in her jurisdiction, and the absurd rule in Florida, that prevents voters of the other party from having a say in the primary, that is in essence an otherwise uncontested election simply if a write in candidate files for the general election (care of Kathryn Harris, the gift that keep on giving.)
Corey should be disbarred for gaming elections (both that of her public defender, and her own, where her campaign manager filed papers for a write-in candidate for one of her own supporters.) How an unethical prosecutor can be allowed to continue in her role is stunning.
The whole system is gamed down there.
Corey should be disbarred for gaming elections (both that of her public defender, and her own, where her campaign manager filed papers for a write-in candidate for one of her own supporters.) How an unethical prosecutor can be allowed to continue in her role is stunning.
The whole system is gamed down there.
1
Roof is executed for executing an innocent, immigrant, hard-working boy. Roof will no longer be a danger to society and will no longer kill others. the death penalty is good at this. Prolonged, life-long incarceration might work (although I've worked with murderers who murdered in prison), but does that restore Farah's life?
As for Roof having a low IQ (which is only one of two criteria for mental retardation and possible lack of culpability, the other is functional capacity) and that he impaired himself further with drugs, do we really want to spare the life of someone who is so dangerous to others? I don't want my children endangered by the Dylan Roofs of society.
As for Roof having a low IQ (which is only one of two criteria for mental retardation and possible lack of culpability, the other is functional capacity) and that he impaired himself further with drugs, do we really want to spare the life of someone who is so dangerous to others? I don't want my children endangered by the Dylan Roofs of society.
3
I'm never quite sure about how I should react to such an 'article', really an opinion piece. I don't like the death penalty, and could easily accept its replacement by life without any chance of parole. On the other hand, I feel no sympathy for the guilty, none. I think that the many cases of prosecutorial misconduct and wrongful conviction call for a serious overhaul of the justice system, but cases where guilt is not denied and is backed by incontrovertible evidence, such as those of Mr. Roof and Mr. Rhodes, engender no sympathy from me.
The arguments about the unequal application of the death penalty could as easily be an argument for a wider application of the practice. Arguments that it should only be applied for the worst of the worst are codified within the nature of those crimes in any state that qualify for the death penalty; arguing that the cold-blooded murder of a young woman for a few dollars doesn't make you among the worst of the worst isn't compelling. If the citizens of that state have decided, and the courts upheld, that murder for personal gain is death penalty eligible, then so be it.
The best argument against the death penalty, in my opinion, is that most rational people fear life without any chance of freedom ever as the greater punishment, including most prisoners. I doubt that anyone, including victims' families, would rationally disagree, if only people trusted that some day, far down the line, a change in sentiments wouldn't free those killers.
The arguments about the unequal application of the death penalty could as easily be an argument for a wider application of the practice. Arguments that it should only be applied for the worst of the worst are codified within the nature of those crimes in any state that qualify for the death penalty; arguing that the cold-blooded murder of a young woman for a few dollars doesn't make you among the worst of the worst isn't compelling. If the citizens of that state have decided, and the courts upheld, that murder for personal gain is death penalty eligible, then so be it.
The best argument against the death penalty, in my opinion, is that most rational people fear life without any chance of freedom ever as the greater punishment, including most prisoners. I doubt that anyone, including victims' families, would rationally disagree, if only people trusted that some day, far down the line, a change in sentiments wouldn't free those killers.
Many local Jacksonville leaders have spoken against Corey'reelection. Many Democrats have registered as Republicans "for a day" to vote for her opponent. If you win the Republican primary you are "elected" because there is no Democrat opponent.
11
In the House, that's thanks very much to Republican gerrymandering.
1
It's sad that so many in our country still believe it's ok to execute people.
29
We can abort babies and euthanize the terminally ill, and we allow those who do murder to walk out of prison most of the time, so it can't be a 'sanctity of life' argument. Why not I ask? As a matter of fact, why can't we just execute most people who murder, excluding certain extenuating cases? Why can't we as a society say, murder is always wrong, therefore there's an obligation to remove those who do?
I'm far too many cases they re as blood thirsty as terrorists.
I take it you have never lost anyone to a loser with a gun. I take it you have never seen anyone murdered. I have, and believe that the death penalty is needed and many people deserve it. The process takes too long,however, and the delays that lawyers can create should be stopped.
4
It appears that with Matt Shirk we have a prosecutor running the public defender's office.
It also seems that while a majority of Americans want to keep the death penalty they want it used less often and more fairly than it's currently being used.
We need to take back control of redistricting from the Republican party and even the playing field so the nuanced beliefs of the majority can be heard.
It also seems that while a majority of Americans want to keep the death penalty they want it used less often and more fairly than it's currently being used.
We need to take back control of redistricting from the Republican party and even the playing field so the nuanced beliefs of the majority can be heard.
20
When life imprisonment means just that, the death penalty is not needed to reassure that the convicted person won't reoffend toward the innocent.
Let's admit that some crimes are truly terrible. So terrible that that many people, particularly the victim and the victim's survivors, would want the criminal dead -- and that few people would truly begrudge the victim and the victim's survivors if they were to kill the criminal. Yet, for the safety of all, it is more important that this is not permitted and, moreover, that the state not be given the power to kill any of its citizens.
64
There are many crimes that are truly terrible. I used to support the death penalty. Right up to the point when my roommate was murdered in our apartment during college. It was the most difficult time of my life. It also vastly changed my opinion of the judicial system in the country.
Life is precious. No man has the right to extinguish that regardless how heinous the crime. My sentiment may not be popular. Let the first man free of sin cast that stone.
Life is precious. No man has the right to extinguish that regardless how heinous the crime. My sentiment may not be popular. Let the first man free of sin cast that stone.
Not executing criminals who undoubtedly murdered someone, is the opposite of doing something in the name of everyone else's safety.
As long as we admit the prosecutorial criminal misconduct, withholding evidence, criminal police misconduct and incompetence in massively overbooled defense attorneys.
I haave always believed that the death penalty was simply legal revenge, and that a civilized country should not give in to the concept. But, on the other hand, perhaps the families of those murdered heinously do deserve that revenge. I do not know......so I come down on the side of a lifetime sentence without parole. On top of other reasons it is much, much cheaper for the taxpayers.
20
POGO--The expense, alone, should be enough of a reason for Republicans to oppose the death penalty, since morals don't seem to be a consideration for them. But, they are always interested in killing someone or something.
1
I am a family member of someone heinously murdered. I do NOT deserve revenge. My family and I do however deserve justice. I believe in the rule of law, not a family's very valid anger and sorrow when it comes to sentencing decisions.
It never made sense to me to murder someone to teach them not to murder someone.
It never made sense to me to murder someone to teach them not to murder someone.
as long as life without parole means just that.
2
I believe in the death penalty but I also believe it's not applied logically or fairly. For example, I've never understood why insanity gets you out of the death penalty. Someone like Jeffrey Dahmer - that's who the death penalty should be meant for regardless of sanity. At that point you're not even executing a person, you're executing a demon, and why shouldn't demons be executed? It's our legal system that's insane.
20
There's a disturbing trend in this country to absolve people of responsibility for their actions by pointing to unrelated facts about their upbringing, mental capacity, lack of education, etc. That, coupled with the recurring meme that "there are too many people in prison" can only lead to a lawless society in which we will be at the mercy of criminals and their witless apologists.
32
And why are those facts "unrelated?"
1
Larry--Those thing have nothing to do with my opposition to the death penalty. Murder is wrong. It's wrong when an individual does it, and it's JUST AS WRONG when the state does it. The state should be above committing criminal acts. Two wrongs don't make a right.
1
"Unrelated facts" are a bummer. Maybe instead we should point to the decades of research that shows that states that have the death penalty have higher murder rates and higher recidivism rates. Or that basically every law enforcement agent and politician in the country that has examined this issues - on both sides of the aisle, no less - has concluded that the death penalty is issued at a wildly disproportionate rate against black and brown people.
Or maybe we don't need facts at all to see that the death penalty is just plain ol' murder.
Or maybe we don't need facts at all to see that the death penalty is just plain ol' murder.
1
If there is a final judgement day for all of us, who do you think will be judged more harshly, James Rhodes or Angela Corey?
14
An execution brutalizes and coarsens the executioner. Capital punishment makes us lesser people.
26
I am forever ashamed that the United States clings to this barbaric practice. To me it symbolizes how intellectually immature we are, how much we still cling to frontier justice and populist violence, and how vicious a society this is. People knew it was evil in the eighteenth century. Try to at least catch up to that, America.
29
Unlike most here I do agree with the death penalty for the worst of the worst. However I do agree no one innocent should EVER be executed.
I propose anyone who is on death row convicted on circumstantial evidence to be allowed to alter their sentence to life instead. However anyone who commits cold murder that is irrefutable(caught on camera, multiple witnesses, etc) should have their executions expedited to give victims family closure and wont cost taxpayers millions via appeals and incarceration costs.
I propose anyone who is on death row convicted on circumstantial evidence to be allowed to alter their sentence to life instead. However anyone who commits cold murder that is irrefutable(caught on camera, multiple witnesses, etc) should have their executions expedited to give victims family closure and wont cost taxpayers millions via appeals and incarceration costs.
6
No crime is irrefutable. That's what presumption of innocence means: that if accused of a crime, you have a constitutional right to refute the charges and be presumed innocent until someone can prove you guilty beyond all reasonable doubt.
Pres Eisenhower would not give clemency to Julius and Ethel Rosenberg, so they were executed based on that their actions MIGHT have started a war causing deaths of innocents -- whereas Dylan Roof did kill innocents and his goal was to start a race war.
6
Guess you missed this point on Dylan Roof amid all the finger pointing at the South.
"I have determined that the Justice Department will seek the death penalty," declared US Attorney General Loretta Lynch"
"I have determined that the Justice Department will seek the death penalty," declared US Attorney General Loretta Lynch"
1
Roof should get it, and Jonathan Pollard deserved it.
1
Ethel was likely not guilty.
Why not let Roof rot in solitary confinement for the next 80 years?
That seems far greater punishment than killing him quickly
Why not let Roof rot in solitary confinement for the next 80 years?
That seems far greater punishment than killing him quickly
It is unclear why we consider the death penalty inherently wrong. While the backstory provides context, this was the surest case of proof beyond a reasonable doubt that is so troubling in other cases. As you note, the big issues we fail to discuss are:
1. How can we use the most final decision when it is not handed out unequally (blacks and the poor are far more likely to get a death sentence).
2. How should we take into account the background of the perpetrator? The dead person is innocent, but do we have an obligation to the perpetrator? Should cost be a consideration for someone who at 21 is already a hardened criminal? You can't banish them, so something has to be done as killing an innocent relieves that person of their rights.
3. Why do we as a country continue to permit youths to grow up in these conditions? Isn't the loss of talent and treasury from doing nothing far more expensive in the long run than sending the money to get them educated, provide some stability, and give them opportunity? Other countries do it with the result that there are far fewer murders.
4. Finally, why is it so easy for a criminal to get a gun? That is a uniquely American problem in the developed world. We need a discussion about gun restrictions at minimum.
Solve those issues and the few remaining intentional murders could be punished by the death penalty and there would far less angst.
1. How can we use the most final decision when it is not handed out unequally (blacks and the poor are far more likely to get a death sentence).
2. How should we take into account the background of the perpetrator? The dead person is innocent, but do we have an obligation to the perpetrator? Should cost be a consideration for someone who at 21 is already a hardened criminal? You can't banish them, so something has to be done as killing an innocent relieves that person of their rights.
3. Why do we as a country continue to permit youths to grow up in these conditions? Isn't the loss of talent and treasury from doing nothing far more expensive in the long run than sending the money to get them educated, provide some stability, and give them opportunity? Other countries do it with the result that there are far fewer murders.
4. Finally, why is it so easy for a criminal to get a gun? That is a uniquely American problem in the developed world. We need a discussion about gun restrictions at minimum.
Solve those issues and the few remaining intentional murders could be punished by the death penalty and there would far less angst.
13
I wish to correct your lead-in premise of "proof behind a reasonable doubt."
Does a 12-year old defendant, without a parent or guardian present, willingly give consent at 2 in the morning to waive his rights to remain silent while being questioned by detectives or a prosecutor?
I think not. And I think that if the defendant was white and his parents were temporarily out of town when the crime occurred, upon returning, his parents would hire the best defense attorney they could find and any statements initially made by their 12-year old son would never be admissible.
Beyond the issue of capital punishment and regardless of one's personal beliefs on that subject, there is an even greater question raised in this article of the uneven application of prosecutions and ultimate punishment for similar crimes perpetrated by similar defendants, with very dissimilar outcomes. And these dissimilar outcomes that bode most poorly for indigent defendants are a result of the prosecutorial zeal and mindset of a smattering of geographically dispersed over-zealous prosecutors who are paired with largely ineffective and incompetent public defenders who are unwilling to defend their clients with equal zeal, which, under the Code of Professional Conduct, they are absolutely sworn to do.
Does a 12-year old defendant, without a parent or guardian present, willingly give consent at 2 in the morning to waive his rights to remain silent while being questioned by detectives or a prosecutor?
I think not. And I think that if the defendant was white and his parents were temporarily out of town when the crime occurred, upon returning, his parents would hire the best defense attorney they could find and any statements initially made by their 12-year old son would never be admissible.
Beyond the issue of capital punishment and regardless of one's personal beliefs on that subject, there is an even greater question raised in this article of the uneven application of prosecutions and ultimate punishment for similar crimes perpetrated by similar defendants, with very dissimilar outcomes. And these dissimilar outcomes that bode most poorly for indigent defendants are a result of the prosecutorial zeal and mindset of a smattering of geographically dispersed over-zealous prosecutors who are paired with largely ineffective and incompetent public defenders who are unwilling to defend their clients with equal zeal, which, under the Code of Professional Conduct, they are absolutely sworn to do.
This article points out many good reasons the death penalty should be standardized across the nation.
An argument for abolishment, brought up in this article, and brought up frequently by death penalty opponents, is that a death penalty trial and the subsequent appeals are very expensive. But in places the death penalty exists, the defendant, like the one featured in the article, is very motivated to plead guilty and agree to life in prison. Take away the death penalty, and you have many more trials with defendants who have nothing to lose by testing the evidence and making the victim's family suffer through the uncertainty and pain of a trial. I don't think there are any studies on this, but an argument about the high cost of the death penalty doesn't take in to account how many trials and subsequent appeals don't happen and that taxpayers don't pay for because defendants who have done terrible things plead guilty to avoid the death penalty.
This defendant featured in this article said he was sorry, but whether that apology was sincere or an effort to escape the death penalty is something we can never know. With no death penalty in play, his decision to apologize and take responsibility may not have come until after a trial.
An argument for abolishment, brought up in this article, and brought up frequently by death penalty opponents, is that a death penalty trial and the subsequent appeals are very expensive. But in places the death penalty exists, the defendant, like the one featured in the article, is very motivated to plead guilty and agree to life in prison. Take away the death penalty, and you have many more trials with defendants who have nothing to lose by testing the evidence and making the victim's family suffer through the uncertainty and pain of a trial. I don't think there are any studies on this, but an argument about the high cost of the death penalty doesn't take in to account how many trials and subsequent appeals don't happen and that taxpayers don't pay for because defendants who have done terrible things plead guilty to avoid the death penalty.
This defendant featured in this article said he was sorry, but whether that apology was sincere or an effort to escape the death penalty is something we can never know. With no death penalty in play, his decision to apologize and take responsibility may not have come until after a trial.
4
Actually, I believe that abolishing the death penalty would have the effect of increasing the number of wrongfully convicted people in prison.
Today, there are a number of organizations, usually sponsored by law schools, that seek out wrongfully convicted death row inmates. These organizations then work to obtain new trials or for other remedies that will free those inmates.
Abolition of the death penalty might well decrease the urgency of the task of these post conviction organizations, leaving those wrongfully convicted persons to languish in prisonl.
Today, there are a number of organizations, usually sponsored by law schools, that seek out wrongfully convicted death row inmates. These organizations then work to obtain new trials or for other remedies that will free those inmates.
Abolition of the death penalty might well decrease the urgency of the task of these post conviction organizations, leaving those wrongfully convicted persons to languish in prisonl.
I can see a financial reason against death penalty, given its high cost and elongated due process. I do not, however, see a moral reason against it when it comes to the most egregious cases. Those who claim the death penalty to be barbaric, answer this: is it more barbaric than to get into a church and shoot many innocent people?
8
"Those who claim the death penalty to be barbaric, answer this: is it more barbaric than to get into a church and shoot many innocent people?"
Of course the people charged with these crimes have behaved barbarically. Many of them exercising their "second amendment rights".
But I didn't raise my children to be just as barbaric as the worst persons they come across. I raised them to meet a standard of education and righteousness--not arrogant self-righteousness, but the righteousness of Jesus. Likewise, I don't flip the bird to those who cut me off in my car, I don't shout abuse at other bad drivers, I am not as coarse as every vulgar yahoo I meet.
It seems that your argument is that we will race each other down the drain of barbarism as society tries to be just a viciously punitive as the worst among us. That's not a society or a race most of us want to be part of.
Of course the people charged with these crimes have behaved barbarically. Many of them exercising their "second amendment rights".
But I didn't raise my children to be just as barbaric as the worst persons they come across. I raised them to meet a standard of education and righteousness--not arrogant self-righteousness, but the righteousness of Jesus. Likewise, I don't flip the bird to those who cut me off in my car, I don't shout abuse at other bad drivers, I am not as coarse as every vulgar yahoo I meet.
It seems that your argument is that we will race each other down the drain of barbarism as society tries to be just a viciously punitive as the worst among us. That's not a society or a race most of us want to be part of.
1
I don't understand the arguments on either side of the debate: What does it matter if someone is convicted to life in prison or to death? Is one worse than the other? I can't tell.
Also, I don't think it matters if the death penalty is applied fairly or not. Being unfairly convicted to life without parole or to death seems pretty cruel and unusual either way. And the argument that once someone is executed they can not be brought back to life even if it turns out they were innocent doesn't seem to hold water either: People on death row have as much chance if not more to have their cases reviewed than regular prisoners.
The entire debate just seems to be by people who want to claim the moral high ground. There are much bigger problems to solve in the judicial and prison systems.
Also, I don't think it matters if the death penalty is applied fairly or not. Being unfairly convicted to life without parole or to death seems pretty cruel and unusual either way. And the argument that once someone is executed they can not be brought back to life even if it turns out they were innocent doesn't seem to hold water either: People on death row have as much chance if not more to have their cases reviewed than regular prisoners.
The entire debate just seems to be by people who want to claim the moral high ground. There are much bigger problems to solve in the judicial and prison systems.
1
Regardless of all the philosophical discussions, one fact will always remain true -- some humans deserve death for their actions. This fact will never change.
13
I'm not sure how one defines cruel and unusual punishment, or that there is a way to truly get justice for a murder victim. It is very clear, however, that the death penalty is meted out unevenly, is often unlikely to ever be carried out, and costs the government many millions of dollars. We should just admit it doesn't work well, and stick with life without parole. Our legislators need some common sense.
10
Excellent article. It doesn't matter that 60 percent of Americans favor the death penalty, and thankfully these types of things don't come up for a vote. (I'm sure the majority also favors bombing cities in the Middle East, sending our youth off to meaningless wars, and polluting the environment if it's good for creating jobs.)
Executions are premeditated killing, which is the definition of first degree murder. Adding the factors brought up in this article only adds to the barbarity of our local and state governments that choose to kill people.
Executions are premeditated killing, which is the definition of first degree murder. Adding the factors brought up in this article only adds to the barbarity of our local and state governments that choose to kill people.
12
One more piece of history.... When I was in high school in Florida in the 60s, the school system in Duval County lost its accreditation for failing to provide an adequate education to its students. A diploma from a Jacksonville high school wasn’t worth the paper on which it was printed, and the "graduates" couldn't even go to the state universities.
12
The bleeding heart liberals always whine that they are against the death penalty. However should a relative or close friend be raped and murdered then suddenly:
They need to hang that piece of filth. We have all heard the arguments pro and con for years. However many of the comments seem to think that it is arbitrary and capricious because every single killer does not receive the death penalty. Really? Do you honestly equate a man killing someone in a bar brawl with the rape and torture killing of a child? Really? Of course not every murder demands execution for the guilty. The death penalty can, should and is reserved for the most heinous crimes: serial killers, multiple murders, torture killings, etc. Leftists always whine that nearly every other Western nation has abolished the death penalty. So what? Polls in nearly every one of those countries show most people support capital punishment but the cowardly and worthless politicians cater to the Left and so long ago did away with this just punishment. Another argument is the death penalty is not a deterrent. Really? It is a deterrent in that the executed felon will never harm anyone else. Death penalty opponents say they are concerned over executing an innocent person. Of course everyone is. That is why with DNA and other tests such a thing is extremely unlikely nowadays. Capital punishment is condoned by every major religion and civilization since time began. The modern world is in no way exempt from doing justice.
They need to hang that piece of filth. We have all heard the arguments pro and con for years. However many of the comments seem to think that it is arbitrary and capricious because every single killer does not receive the death penalty. Really? Do you honestly equate a man killing someone in a bar brawl with the rape and torture killing of a child? Really? Of course not every murder demands execution for the guilty. The death penalty can, should and is reserved for the most heinous crimes: serial killers, multiple murders, torture killings, etc. Leftists always whine that nearly every other Western nation has abolished the death penalty. So what? Polls in nearly every one of those countries show most people support capital punishment but the cowardly and worthless politicians cater to the Left and so long ago did away with this just punishment. Another argument is the death penalty is not a deterrent. Really? It is a deterrent in that the executed felon will never harm anyone else. Death penalty opponents say they are concerned over executing an innocent person. Of course everyone is. That is why with DNA and other tests such a thing is extremely unlikely nowadays. Capital punishment is condoned by every major religion and civilization since time began. The modern world is in no way exempt from doing justice.
8
If my family member were brutally murdered, my pain would give rise within me to an extreme anger, itself a form of suffering, that I would try to quench by seeking the death penalty for he who wronged me. I can sit here in clear mind and realize - it would be my anger that would drive me to want to cause pain as I have been hurt - and not any concept of "correction" - for there is no correction for death known by the human race.
That said, I am still unclear as to what the death penalty accomplishes. It is not a deterrent. Those who kill are not governed by the same internal guidance that motivates rational citizens. Though there are exceptions to any statement I could make, most murderers have already discounted the value of their own lives. Most crucially - if we really fully understood the history of these people, and investigated the tragedy of their own lives, our own hearts would ache and we would find it very difficult to stand in hardened judgment against them.
The death penalty is an outlet for our anger, and nothing more. It does not remedy our anger. It does not correct the wrong that has been committed.
All it does is bring "closure" to the survivors - which is to say, after the death penalty, we expect the survivors to shut up and speak of their pain no more.
That said, I am still unclear as to what the death penalty accomplishes. It is not a deterrent. Those who kill are not governed by the same internal guidance that motivates rational citizens. Though there are exceptions to any statement I could make, most murderers have already discounted the value of their own lives. Most crucially - if we really fully understood the history of these people, and investigated the tragedy of their own lives, our own hearts would ache and we would find it very difficult to stand in hardened judgment against them.
The death penalty is an outlet for our anger, and nothing more. It does not remedy our anger. It does not correct the wrong that has been committed.
All it does is bring "closure" to the survivors - which is to say, after the death penalty, we expect the survivors to shut up and speak of their pain no more.
10
This article presents yet another article about why we need to get out and vote. Complacency will lead to our grand children, our children, and ourselves being placed in concentration camps and worked to death (or executed) for the benefit of the 1% over-class.
10
At no point is Florida's incredibly poor treatment of Foster children and its failed DFC Services ever blamed for turning out an endless stream of criminalized youth. I jave never heard of a Grand Jury investigation of this profit making privatized service for the state's troubled youth, How much longer must everybody suffer so the Republican privater service provider will profit. Nearly one child per week is lost. The head of the Family Service Dept changes frequently and always is another failed leader from another Red State's privatized social service unit. We all pay the price.
19
I moved to Florida in the past year to be near relocated family. At my age, I decided to volunteer for jury duty. The process is alarming. They have an unspoken maximum IQ limit. Floridians, want your revenge with a death sentence? Fine. Change the laws to mandate professional jurors.The sheer ignorance of the Republican party in this state is both frightening and sad. They are the ones who prevent change from happening.
17
If you are not going to apply the death penalty to child rapists - a crime that is damaging to the most vulnerable and premeditated to boot, the worst crime there is - there is no point in having a death penalty.
10
The troubling practices of both the prosecution and defense outlined in this article suggests the criminal defense bar in the U.S. should try something different. In the UK, lawyers can either prosecute or defend cases, with the former eligible so long as they're qualified as a "Queen's Counsel." Affording such flexibility in the U.S. would eliminate a lot of the politicization of criminal defense and prosecution. I considered Angela Corey a disgrace for the way she sat on her hands during the George Zimmerman trial. That she has manipulated the choice of voters to make securing convictions even easier suggests she has no interest in ensuring justice is served. The Florida Bar should try and keep her out of courtrooms in the future.
11
My father went into foster care at age 5 too. He slept on a pull out cot in the living room until joining the army at age 17. He went to college on the GI bill and had a career in the insurance industry. He was a very bright person, and I'm sure that helped him. He was hindered all his life by crippling depression and anxiety. But he didn't shoot anyone in the head. Yes, I haven't read the entire article yet, but I doubt my feelings will change: I don't know if I'm completely opposed to the death penalty.
10
Go ahead, politically correct people, and scream at me. I am sorry the death penalty is not applied, without endless appeals, more often in more states. A homicidal psychopath, a child-killer, a serial killer, never changes behavior, cannot be rehabbed. Lifers endlessly appeal on technicalities, causing more expense and anguish for families of victims. And let loose, they find more victims. This happens frequently. Sadly, some people, for whatever reason, are unfit for human society, and should be sent back to their Maker. I know whereof I speak: here in little ole Wilmington NC, a killer named James Bradley was set loose after serving a bit of time for murdering his young stepdaughter and throwing her body away like garbage. Within months of his release, two more females were murdered, one whose body was dug up and one who was last seen with him but has "disappeared." Had he received the death penalty, these two innocent women would still be alive. Yet there he is, being housed and fed, with free defense counsel, at taxpayer expense. Don't whine to me about innocent people being executed, until you compare the total number of executed innocents, with the total number of additional victims when these rabid dogs are set free.
27
It is no surprise that people who claim to be Christians favor the death penalty. This is no different from the Islamic insistence on honor killing, except our Christians want revenge. It's no secret that Texas is our most prominent murderer state. I would say "shame on you," if you had any shame.
3
It's time for the US to join the civilized world and end the barbaric death penalty.
4
I am not in favor of the death penalty. However, I am in favor of the truth. If blacks such as the murderer featured here are overwhelmingly the outcome of our "culture of poverty" and if they commit more crimes in proportion to other people, wouldn't it follow that they would indeed incur capital punishment more often? Please don't twist facts around to fit your agenda. People who are so damaged by their lack of upbringing, lack of love, lack of intelligence, abuse of drugs, need to be put away forever. I don't know if anything can fix such broken people.
12
Sara, please read it again. They are saying that, crime for crime (all things being equal, IOW), you are more likely to get this punishment if you're a minority.
There is a sad irony in the fact that the punishment for killing someone is death. Moreover there are an abundant number of cases where the guilty verdict has been overturned after many years of legal wrangling and when new techniques of testing DNA are introduced.
So it seems clear that the death penalty must be abolished except for the "wprst of the worst."
So it seems clear that the death penalty must be abolished except for the "wprst of the worst."
2
There's a wonderful titled - "Crime and Punishment in Eighteenth Century England"- By Frank McLynn
He follows the history of the justice system as it moved away from the Monarchy and into the jurisdiction of the people.
McLynn devotes an entire chapter to "Executions"...
"After 1750 growing doubts about the efficacy of capital punishment tended to reduce the level of executions."
Hmmm --
"A general consensus formed that as an exemplary punishment hanging simply did not work"
Hmmm...
"Public executions were one of the rare occasions when the classes mingled. The upper strata vied for a good view with the underworld and the wretched and dispossessed."
McLynn goes on to argue that - in fact - capital punishment has never been - is not now - nor will it ever be - a "deterrent" to crime -- and he cites examples of men who were witnesses to savage public executions, who then later went out and committed the very same criminal offense - for which then they, themselves, received the exact same punishment...
He follows the history of the justice system as it moved away from the Monarchy and into the jurisdiction of the people.
McLynn devotes an entire chapter to "Executions"...
"After 1750 growing doubts about the efficacy of capital punishment tended to reduce the level of executions."
Hmmm --
"A general consensus formed that as an exemplary punishment hanging simply did not work"
Hmmm...
"Public executions were one of the rare occasions when the classes mingled. The upper strata vied for a good view with the underworld and the wretched and dispossessed."
McLynn goes on to argue that - in fact - capital punishment has never been - is not now - nor will it ever be - a "deterrent" to crime -- and he cites examples of men who were witnesses to savage public executions, who then later went out and committed the very same criminal offense - for which then they, themselves, received the exact same punishment...
2
I'm opposed to the death penalty for several reasons, but If there was a public referendum to institute the death penalty in "progressive" Minnesota, you would be stunned to see the margin by which it would be approved.
1
Who was the last wealthy person sentenced to death or executed? Anybody who can think of one in the last 20 years, please post. Imagine Donald Trump carrying out his shooting of a pedestrian on Fifth Avenue. Or, better yet, blowing away an uppity guest at Mar a Lago. The lawyers and a phalanx of psychiatrists would rejoice, but the opening line in Vegas would be 500-1 against his being excuted. On the other hand the Black gardener who got tired of the boss intentionally tromping on the petunias he planted or molesting his kid starts off at what 3-5???
6
Despite all of the legalese weasel wording surrounding the concept of capital punishment from overly ambitious and self righteous prosecutors and judges who obviously relish their power over life and death, no one, including the State, has the right to take the life of another human being. Murder is murder whether it be at the hand of a deranged sociopath or the state's tax paid executioners. That the death penalty disproportionately effects African Americans and the impoverished is a fact, and contrary to what some believe, it is not at all random. Moreover, that the majority of those who continue to support State sponsored murder call themselves Christians is the height of hypocrisy as forgiveness lies at the heart of Christ's teachings. Capital punishment is nothing more than revenge being carried out by the State, and has nothing at all to do with justice or mercy. As Mahatma Gandhi wisely stated many years ago "An eye for an eye makes the entire world blind". As long as the death penalty exists in the US, we will remain thus.
8
Funny coincidence; this article about Matt Shirk's just appeared today in the "Above the Law": http://abovethelaw.com/2016/08/with-public-defenders-like-these-who-need...
Also, did I read this correctly?
"Duval County’s population is 30 percent African-American. During Angela Corey’s tenure, 80 percent of the defendants sentenced to death were black, compared with 73 percent of those arrested for murder."
Is that saying 73% of those arrested for murder are African-American, when the overall African -America population is 30%?
That seems so statistically out of whack I'm thinking it's a mistake. Also, why use the number of people arrested (which only requires probably cause) for "murder" (which could include a number of offences) as opposed to the number of people charged with death penalty eligible offences, which I believe only includes first degree murder and felony murder? The arrested for murder compared with death penalty sentences doesn't make sense.
Also, did I read this correctly?
"Duval County’s population is 30 percent African-American. During Angela Corey’s tenure, 80 percent of the defendants sentenced to death were black, compared with 73 percent of those arrested for murder."
Is that saying 73% of those arrested for murder are African-American, when the overall African -America population is 30%?
That seems so statistically out of whack I'm thinking it's a mistake. Also, why use the number of people arrested (which only requires probably cause) for "murder" (which could include a number of offences) as opposed to the number of people charged with death penalty eligible offences, which I believe only includes first degree murder and felony murder? The arrested for murder compared with death penalty sentences doesn't make sense.
3
Capital Punishment is in reality an eye for an eye with an attempt to clean up the heinous act of murder, which no matter how you justify it , Capital Punishment is premeditated murder by the State, & must end. It accomplishes nothing.The last meal, the last rites, the witnesses,the murderous venom that is inserted into the killers vein, it doesn’t take away the brutality of the act. Lets stop the hypocrisy & really make it an eye for an eye, & save a lot of time & millions of dollars. In the case of the fiend that shot that girl in the head, let the father of the girl shoot the murder in the head, as soon as the Jury declares him guilty,some how, that seems more like justice then the procedure we now employ.
5
The death penalty's primary purpose is not as a punishment or a deterrent. Once the justice system decides this person can no longer be trusted to live in society, ever, that there is no way to cure or rehabilitate whatever makes this person dangerous, and that this person must be kept separate forever, then the death penalty is more humane than life in prison, as well as more effective and cheaper.
5
This is a superb article, Ms. Bazelon, and could easily be made part of a high-school or college curriculum. Thanks to the New York Times for printing it.
13
A very critical factor missed in the statistics within this article along with race, abused vs loved, poverty vs wealthy, low vs high IQ or guns vs knifes, is drug abuse. As stated by James Rhodes, he was high. Drug use crosses all societal boundaries and the actions taken under altered states of consciousness is detrimental to our communities. The biggest question to ponder, given all other circumstances would James Rhodes have committed this crime if he was not high?
4
Umm, no, sorry. Many other people get high but do not kill.
The death penalty is basically for revenge based on ancient traditions of " an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth" mentality.
If we view ourselves as a so called enlightened society, we must not engage in legalized murder. Murder is murder and taking another's life whether it be done by a criminal or by the state is basically the same act. Two wrongs do not make a right as the old adage goes.
The death penalty does not deter crime. Moreover, we know that sometimes people not guilty of the crime they are accused of have later been found to be innocent. Once you've put someone to death- there is no correction of that mistake.
Gov. Tom Wolf of Pa. has put a moratorium on the death penalty to study the fairness of it in Pa. I hope this leads to a permanent ban on the death penalty in Pa. The death penalty with all the legal appeals, etc actually costs more.
With all the revenge conflict in the world today, we should take the higher ground and abolish the death penalty nationally. It would show the world and ourselves we have moved beyond revenge.
If we view ourselves as a so called enlightened society, we must not engage in legalized murder. Murder is murder and taking another's life whether it be done by a criminal or by the state is basically the same act. Two wrongs do not make a right as the old adage goes.
The death penalty does not deter crime. Moreover, we know that sometimes people not guilty of the crime they are accused of have later been found to be innocent. Once you've put someone to death- there is no correction of that mistake.
Gov. Tom Wolf of Pa. has put a moratorium on the death penalty to study the fairness of it in Pa. I hope this leads to a permanent ban on the death penalty in Pa. The death penalty with all the legal appeals, etc actually costs more.
With all the revenge conflict in the world today, we should take the higher ground and abolish the death penalty nationally. It would show the world and ourselves we have moved beyond revenge.
7
I was in the jury pool for a death penalty case in Orange County. The accused had gone to three different gas stations, tied up each of the teen-aged attendant at each station, two of the victims high school students, and blew each of their faces off. The accused and the victims were all Latino. The accused was over 30 years old, not a kid. His take was something like $50 at each station. What is egregious? When you are in the room hearing this, it is a lot more real, and parents with dead children are sitting in the room with you. "Egregious" is right there in front of you.
I've always had mixed feelings about the Death Penalty and thankfully was not chosen for the jury. The accused was found guilty and sits on Death Row.
I've always had mixed feelings about the Death Penalty and thankfully was not chosen for the jury. The accused was found guilty and sits on Death Row.
19
If the purpose of the death penalty is deterrence then I think everyone can agree it has not worked.
If the purpose of the death penalty is revenge then that is something the state should not be a part of. Isn't this just state sanctioned vigilantism?
Defendants are at such a disadvantage when it comes to equitable legal representation versus prosecutors. I can only wonder how these prosecutors sleep at night?
If the purpose of the death penalty is revenge then that is something the state should not be a part of. Isn't this just state sanctioned vigilantism?
Defendants are at such a disadvantage when it comes to equitable legal representation versus prosecutors. I can only wonder how these prosecutors sleep at night?
75
I suspect the prosecutors have no problem sleeping at night. That is the problem...
2
No, we don't agree. A raft of studies, many done by academics personally opposed to the death penalty have shown a clear deterrence when states actually execute. Case Sunstein, former Regulatory Czar for President Obama, and husband of US Ambassador to the U.N. Samantha Power said it best in his 2005 paper "Is Capital Punishment Required; A Life-for-Life Trade-off."
In it he asks whether if studies from Emory, the University of Houston, and University of Colorado are even roughly accurate and that between 7 and 17 innocent victims are NOT murdered for every lawful execution, how can you not at least offer capital punishment?
The group's Bazelon cites believe the right punishment is that which punishes least.
In it he asks whether if studies from Emory, the University of Houston, and University of Colorado are even roughly accurate and that between 7 and 17 innocent victims are NOT murdered for every lawful execution, how can you not at least offer capital punishment?
The group's Bazelon cites believe the right punishment is that which punishes least.
The purpose of the death penalty is not deterrence.
The purpose of the death penalty is not revenge.
The purpose of the death penalty is justice, in the time-honored sense that the punishment should fit the crime. Death for "the worst of the worst" is justice.
Prosecutors sleep at night because they prosecute people they believe have committed horrific crimes, based on the evidence they have.
The purpose of the death penalty is not revenge.
The purpose of the death penalty is justice, in the time-honored sense that the punishment should fit the crime. Death for "the worst of the worst" is justice.
Prosecutors sleep at night because they prosecute people they believe have committed horrific crimes, based on the evidence they have.
For as long as I can remember I was against the death penalty but wasn't necessarily able to explain why until after the Orlando shooting this year.
For the record, I know that the Orlando shooter didn't get the death penalty, but his status is comparable in that he's now dead as a result of a crime he committed.
Anyway, that shooter isn't being punished. He's just casually lying dead in some box somewhere. The police had to take him down because he posed a threat to innocent people's lives. But as soon as he died, he just died. None of his victims' lives were resurrected or any of that. He just doesn't exist anymore and doesn't even know it.
I think the death penalty is rooted in some antediluvian notion that you're killing an inherently bad person and sending them to hell to be punished or something. But if someone was born "inherently bad," then that person is ill. If, on the other hand, society made someone "bad," society made them bad (i.e., society is at fault). Either way, we incarcerate people to rehabilitate them or to remove them from society to prevent them from hurting people.
For those people who insist that the purpose of the criminal justice system should be punishment, the death penalty -- to me -- doesn't seem to be a very good punishment.
For the record, I know that the Orlando shooter didn't get the death penalty, but his status is comparable in that he's now dead as a result of a crime he committed.
Anyway, that shooter isn't being punished. He's just casually lying dead in some box somewhere. The police had to take him down because he posed a threat to innocent people's lives. But as soon as he died, he just died. None of his victims' lives were resurrected or any of that. He just doesn't exist anymore and doesn't even know it.
I think the death penalty is rooted in some antediluvian notion that you're killing an inherently bad person and sending them to hell to be punished or something. But if someone was born "inherently bad," then that person is ill. If, on the other hand, society made someone "bad," society made them bad (i.e., society is at fault). Either way, we incarcerate people to rehabilitate them or to remove them from society to prevent them from hurting people.
For those people who insist that the purpose of the criminal justice system should be punishment, the death penalty -- to me -- doesn't seem to be a very good punishment.
12
The death penalty is cruel and unusual (even if it weren't cruel, it is unusual these days). And I have been asked - if your daughter were raped and murdered wouldn't I want the perpetrator dead?
And my reply is: Absolutely. But I live in a civilized society, I consider myself civilized, and I hope the Law would prevent me from acting on my wishes.
It's unfairly sought, and unfairly imposed. It deters no one.
If acting like most of the civilized world is not enough rational to eliminate the death penalty, then we must be more pragmatic and speak more loudly about the dollar costs of defending a Capital case vs life without parole. Most people still believe the death penalty is cheaper than life without parole.
It's cheap, it's messy, it's often wrong - but not less expensive.
And my reply is: Absolutely. But I live in a civilized society, I consider myself civilized, and I hope the Law would prevent me from acting on my wishes.
It's unfairly sought, and unfairly imposed. It deters no one.
If acting like most of the civilized world is not enough rational to eliminate the death penalty, then we must be more pragmatic and speak more loudly about the dollar costs of defending a Capital case vs life without parole. Most people still believe the death penalty is cheaper than life without parole.
It's cheap, it's messy, it's often wrong - but not less expensive.
8
Please read the information regarding Rhodes' prior arrests - clearly the worst of the worst.
Before the death penalty was temporarily abolished decades ago, Rhodes would've been executed within 90 days - not from the date of conviction, but from the date of the crime. The evidence here is overwhelming for all to see.
Justice delayed is justice denied.
All have a right to justice - not just those on which the right is bestowed by the New York Times.
Before the death penalty was temporarily abolished decades ago, Rhodes would've been executed within 90 days - not from the date of conviction, but from the date of the crime. The evidence here is overwhelming for all to see.
Justice delayed is justice denied.
All have a right to justice - not just those on which the right is bestowed by the New York Times.
12
Can we hand the Southern States back to the Confederacy? Please? The rest of us will be better off without their second world economies, third world education systems, and dark ages beliefs. Please secede, the Yankees will support you this time!
17
Many outside the NY metro area would say the same thing about it. And Detroit. And Cleveland. And Baltimore.
Snark and contempt, favored so much on this comment board, go both ways
Snark and contempt, favored so much on this comment board, go both ways
2
Then why are so many of you moving here?
Except they are sentencing most people to death row.....
https://www.unc.edu/~fbaum/teaching/articles/BlumeJELS2014.pdf
https://www.unc.edu/~fbaum/teaching/articles/BlumeJELS2014.pdf
I don't see a problem. He killed someone and should pay the same price.....death. I also don't see a reason to point out race of Mr. Rhodes. Does it really, really matter? He's a killer.
12
Why are you so bothered by the fact that Rhodes' race is pointed out in the article? Perhaps it is because African Americans are more than twice as likely to get a death sentence than others, and more than 3 times as likely when the victim is white?
The data provided on the absolute number of death penalties in each county is misleading because the population of the counties varies widely. A much better statistic for each county is the number of death penalties divided by the county's population - this statistic gives an indication of the probability of being sentenced to death in each county.
I have done this calculation, massaged the result, and have obtained the following: the five counties with the greatest probability of being sentenced to death are - Cappo Parish, Louisiana (19.6): Mobile County, Alabama (19.4); Duval County, Florida (18.5); Riverside County, California (16.4); and Kern County, California (9.4). The counties with the lowest statistic are: Miami-Dade, Florida (2.0) and San Bernardino, California (2.5).
Thus, it is almost ten times (actually 9.8) more likely to be sentenced to death in Caddo Parish then it is in Miami Dade. This statistic seems to indicate that if you are convicted of a capital crime and don't want to be executed then you should avoid certain counties in the south.
I have done this calculation, massaged the result, and have obtained the following: the five counties with the greatest probability of being sentenced to death are - Cappo Parish, Louisiana (19.6): Mobile County, Alabama (19.4); Duval County, Florida (18.5); Riverside County, California (16.4); and Kern County, California (9.4). The counties with the lowest statistic are: Miami-Dade, Florida (2.0) and San Bernardino, California (2.5).
Thus, it is almost ten times (actually 9.8) more likely to be sentenced to death in Caddo Parish then it is in Miami Dade. This statistic seems to indicate that if you are convicted of a capital crime and don't want to be executed then you should avoid certain counties in the south.
2
Here we go again.The Times argues against the death penalty.I support the death penalty.End of discussion.
2
It would appear that jurors by their very selection become "judicial Officers" whose ability to exercise a "public Trust" is determined by the absence of
substantial moral or religious qualms with regards to the death penalty. Why is this absence not a "religious Test" under Article Six?
substantial moral or religious qualms with regards to the death penalty. Why is this absence not a "religious Test" under Article Six?
3
One thing about the death penalty: They will never commit another crime again.
That's acceptable to me.
That's acceptable to me.
15
I believe only FBI-certified and convicted serial killers should get the death penalty. If there is such a thing as pure evil, they embody it.
1
The simplistic rationale used for the death penalty--"a life for a life"--falls apart when placed in a real-life justice system with vindictive prosecutors, fallible defense attorneys and impatient, unsympathetic jurors.
In a perfect system you could make the argument that the death penalty is just. In the real world, it doesn't come close.
In a perfect system you could make the argument that the death penalty is just. In the real world, it doesn't come close.
5
A news story from Texas, reads like a news story middle 1800s America.
4
Many thanks to the NYT and the authors for a well-researched article exposing issues surrounding the use of the death penalty in the 16 counties which continue to impose it most frequently.
As a Florida resident, thankfully not in Duval county, I appreciate the spotlight turned on Ms. Corey for her many abuses of her office and the support she receives from the voters in Duval. Closed primary elections (allowing only votes by those registered to a specific party) are controversial when they are a presidential primary and even more controversial when they are the de facto election of county officials. The Duval county elections present an argument for open primary elections, especially when so many voters have registered as independents in disgust for the two party system.
As a Florida resident, thankfully not in Duval county, I appreciate the spotlight turned on Ms. Corey for her many abuses of her office and the support she receives from the voters in Duval. Closed primary elections (allowing only votes by those registered to a specific party) are controversial when they are a presidential primary and even more controversial when they are the de facto election of county officials. The Duval county elections present an argument for open primary elections, especially when so many voters have registered as independents in disgust for the two party system.
12
If I remember correctly, to carry out a death sentence costs far more than life in prison. Of course some states really provide for their prisoners. MN for example provides color tv cable and they have special diets for prisoners.
Hell holes like Parchman in LA are indeed cruel and unusual in their punishment.
While traveling through China many years ago, I saw an unusual sight. There was a Chinese Army Jeep with a young woman on a loud speaker issuing all kind of taunts in Chinese. There was a male prisoner in the Chinese knock off of a Russian WWII truck and they had him in the airplane position. I looked at a Chinese by stander - made the manual gesture asking, "What is going on." He smiled and then made the shape of a pistol with his hand and pulled the trigger. Then he showed me a kind of story board with the weekly paper on it and next to that were 20 or so pictures - some with a cross drawn through them.
Later I asked a Chinese guy who could speak English about the process. Well the Chinese had a knock off of a Russian Markov pistol and then the prisoner would be lead to a central area where he was shot in the back of the head. The family was required to pay the Chinese Army a few RMB for the round.
To me an even bigger problem we face is the incredible number of prisoners in our all of our prisons serving lengthy sentences for non violent crimes. Train those people so they provide for themselves.
Hell holes like Parchman in LA are indeed cruel and unusual in their punishment.
While traveling through China many years ago, I saw an unusual sight. There was a Chinese Army Jeep with a young woman on a loud speaker issuing all kind of taunts in Chinese. There was a male prisoner in the Chinese knock off of a Russian WWII truck and they had him in the airplane position. I looked at a Chinese by stander - made the manual gesture asking, "What is going on." He smiled and then made the shape of a pistol with his hand and pulled the trigger. Then he showed me a kind of story board with the weekly paper on it and next to that were 20 or so pictures - some with a cross drawn through them.
Later I asked a Chinese guy who could speak English about the process. Well the Chinese had a knock off of a Russian Markov pistol and then the prisoner would be lead to a central area where he was shot in the back of the head. The family was required to pay the Chinese Army a few RMB for the round.
To me an even bigger problem we face is the incredible number of prisoners in our all of our prisons serving lengthy sentences for non violent crimes. Train those people so they provide for themselves.
2
We need a quicker less expensive process to implement the death penalty. It really shouldn't matter what a defendant's background or skin color is, if you commit murder you should be put to death and it shouldn't take a decade or more to do it.
7
Life in prison without the possibility of parole is no cakewalk. It is a sentence that protects society, ensuring that the most violent offenders are never freed, and also provides justice for victim and their families. As someone who has lost a parent to violent crime, I would be content knowing that my father's killer (who was never caught) was spending the rest of his life in prison, forced to think about the life they took, which resulted in the loss of their own.
Economically, it costs less to incarcerate someone for life than to apply the death penalty, given all of the appeals they have. Emotionally, I think for any family, having to deal with the lengthy appeals process in a death sentence case is far more gut-wrenching than life without parole as the Farah's experience has shown.
The line between punishment and vengeance has long since been crossed, as harsh sentences are arbitrarily applied and the people at the very top of our criminal justice system use their power and authority to further their own not so well hidden agendas and careers on the taxpayers dime.
Economically, it costs less to incarcerate someone for life than to apply the death penalty, given all of the appeals they have. Emotionally, I think for any family, having to deal with the lengthy appeals process in a death sentence case is far more gut-wrenching than life without parole as the Farah's experience has shown.
The line between punishment and vengeance has long since been crossed, as harsh sentences are arbitrarily applied and the people at the very top of our criminal justice system use their power and authority to further their own not so well hidden agendas and careers on the taxpayers dime.
27
Society failed Rhodes. He was placed in foster care at age 5, placed in a state boys' home at 6, reads at a third grade level, was abused, sexually assaulted while in state care, and the list goes on. If he'd lived a middle class life, had not been abused, had had what he needed rather than what the state decided to "give" him I could understand wanting to execute him. The fact is that his life has been anything but decent. If America truly valued all its citizens, especially those who are poor, abused, or disadvantaged the way this defendant has been, it would allocate the monies necessary to give them decent lives and a decent chance at life. America doesn't and then takes its revenge on them when they do commit crimes of any sort. Rather than preventing anything we let it happen.
When saving money, or punishing the parents is more important to the state than helping a child have a good life so he can grow into a productive citizen the outcome, a criminal, is not surprising. What is surprising is how willing we are to accept this outcome over and over again. If he is executed it's not going to bring back Darlene Farah's daughter. It won't change the fact that Rhodes was not helped by the state. All it will do is show exactly how cruel America is to those who live at the margins of society.
When saving money, or punishing the parents is more important to the state than helping a child have a good life so he can grow into a productive citizen the outcome, a criminal, is not surprising. What is surprising is how willing we are to accept this outcome over and over again. If he is executed it's not going to bring back Darlene Farah's daughter. It won't change the fact that Rhodes was not helped by the state. All it will do is show exactly how cruel America is to those who live at the margins of society.
54
Hen3ry, I "recommended" your comment, because I too believe that our country has abandoned many of its poorer citizens, while spending billions on the refugees from other nation. (Yes, we should help the helpless from Syria, but not at the expense of the helpless in the US.) But I'm distressed that you are forgetting a vital part of this story: Darlene Farrah's daughter? Her name was Shelby and she was a hard-working talented young woman who was on the road to have a "decent life." She is dead. Ignoring her is no more "justice" than executing Rhodes is justice. Rhodes should live and work hard for the rest of his life in honor of Shelby, whose name should be on a plaque in his house. His salary forever should go to Shelby's family.
3
Actually, seems pretty clear that Mr. Rhodes failed himself. And I'm intrigued by your wording that "Rhodes was not helped by the state", as if his actions are anyone's fault but his own.
Because you see, people make choices. And they have to own those choices. My husband, like Mr. Rhodes, is African-American. His father had a drug problem and his mother died when he was a toddler. He was in and out of foster homes, no family support, and started selling drugs in his early teens. The difference between my husband and Mr. Rhodes is that my husband decided his lifestyle would lead to jail or death, and wanted more for himself. He finished high school. Worked 3 jobs. Got his associate's degree. Worked some more, saved some more money and finished his bachelor's degree. Then completed his master's degree while working full-time.
The patronizing tone that poor Mr. Rhodes had a crappy upbringing that mitigates the severity of his actions is sickening. Mr. Rhodes has no one but himself to blame. Plenty of people have endured the same sad childhoods, most do not shoot a 20 year old girl in the head after she has already handed over the money during a robbery.
Mr. Rhodes will get a last meal of his choosing. His victim did not know when she left for work that she had in fact, already eaten her last meal.
Because you see, people make choices. And they have to own those choices. My husband, like Mr. Rhodes, is African-American. His father had a drug problem and his mother died when he was a toddler. He was in and out of foster homes, no family support, and started selling drugs in his early teens. The difference between my husband and Mr. Rhodes is that my husband decided his lifestyle would lead to jail or death, and wanted more for himself. He finished high school. Worked 3 jobs. Got his associate's degree. Worked some more, saved some more money and finished his bachelor's degree. Then completed his master's degree while working full-time.
The patronizing tone that poor Mr. Rhodes had a crappy upbringing that mitigates the severity of his actions is sickening. Mr. Rhodes has no one but himself to blame. Plenty of people have endured the same sad childhoods, most do not shoot a 20 year old girl in the head after she has already handed over the money during a robbery.
Mr. Rhodes will get a last meal of his choosing. His victim did not know when she left for work that she had in fact, already eaten her last meal.
1
A fine piece by the granddaughter of one of our finest jurists. My only suggestion is adding how little we in FL pay court-appointed private counsel who take on capital cases, such as when the PD's office conflicts out. Try $25,000 per atty times 2 attys. https://www.justiceadmin.org/court_app_counsel/CAC%20Flat%20Fee%20Rates%...
6
The hypocrisy is sickening. I can't help but notice that the areas of the nation most insistent on the concept of 2nd Amendment rights against some imaginary oppressive government (a ridiculous argument on it's face -- small arms don't matter in a real combat) are also most insistent on using government sanctioned judicial murder as a form of social control. In the end its all about the same thing -- keeping "those people" in their place.
45
didn't see anything in the article to justify the killer not getting the death penalty.
the problem with the death penalty is that it isn't used more often and within a reasonable time of the crime. 3 years is plenty of time, execute the killer.
the problem with the death penalty is that it isn't used more often and within a reasonable time of the crime. 3 years is plenty of time, execute the killer.
11
What if evidence comes up 10 years later that exonerates the executed person? What if it comes out that people lied to get the person convicted because they didn't like him/her? Can you think of a way to bring back the dead? Life in prison is less costly than the system we have now. And not every murder or murderer is worth the death penalty. We would do better to offer more in terms of preventive services or rehabilitation rather than being as vengeful as we are.
Shelby Farah was murdered by a man who had the mental age of a child. Her life was ended because the state, in its infinite wisdom, didn't provide a decent life for the person who killed her. How is executing him going to fix that now and in the future?
Shelby Farah was murdered by a man who had the mental age of a child. Her life was ended because the state, in its infinite wisdom, didn't provide a decent life for the person who killed her. How is executing him going to fix that now and in the future?
14
When the state eliminates racism in the court system team of players, power plays, and money and applies the law equally to whites, blacks, Hispanics and everyone else and to the rich and the poor alike no matter the color, economic status, or race of the victim, then we can have a death penalty.
I just got through watching the story of Johnny Hinicapie, who, as a teen, was caught up in the net of the criminal criminal justice system after a killing of a tourist in the NYC subway system back in the 90's. The minute his naïve mother asked the cops if he needed a lawyer and was told, "no", was the minute he was in for big trouble. The rich and the educated wouldn't ask that question and their child would have not spent 25 years in jail for a crime they didn't commit.
Hinicapie believed the cop who told him (and according to him, beat him up) that if he said what he saw (as a witness - he didn't see anything but heard a ruckus from the upper level), he could go home. Another kid, who didn't give in to the beatings and exhortations to confess or be a witness, ended up going home because there was no evidence he was part of the gang of kids that killed the tourist. The actual perpetrators had confessed and later viewings of tapes of police questionings by his current defense team indicated they had said several times that Hinicapie wasn't there 25 years before.
This case may seem clear and then, again, not, because apparently it depends on where you commit a crime.
I just got through watching the story of Johnny Hinicapie, who, as a teen, was caught up in the net of the criminal criminal justice system after a killing of a tourist in the NYC subway system back in the 90's. The minute his naïve mother asked the cops if he needed a lawyer and was told, "no", was the minute he was in for big trouble. The rich and the educated wouldn't ask that question and their child would have not spent 25 years in jail for a crime they didn't commit.
Hinicapie believed the cop who told him (and according to him, beat him up) that if he said what he saw (as a witness - he didn't see anything but heard a ruckus from the upper level), he could go home. Another kid, who didn't give in to the beatings and exhortations to confess or be a witness, ended up going home because there was no evidence he was part of the gang of kids that killed the tourist. The actual perpetrators had confessed and later viewings of tapes of police questionings by his current defense team indicated they had said several times that Hinicapie wasn't there 25 years before.
This case may seem clear and then, again, not, because apparently it depends on where you commit a crime.
That evidence has come up more than 10 or even 20 years that has exonerated people sentenced to death. Life in prison with or without parole is a severe punishment especially for the mentally ill and mentally retarded and those who are placed in solitary confinement. James Rhodes entire life is justification for not using the death penalty. The political shaping of a Court Circuit is reason not to use the death penalty. That Christian Fernandez at age 12 could be prosecuted as an adult is unconscionable. That Raymond Morrison, Jr. could go through the system and a trial judge declare "It was like he had no attorney" begs the question when do defendants no have adequate representation and if the do not how can anyone be given the death penalty?
1
The "humane" alternative, life in prison without parole, seems almost as bad as the death penalty.
2
Mavericks in the criminal justice system are essentially state-sanctioned vigilantes. Angela Corey, by the lights of this article, falls into this category.
The death penalty, if it is to be levied and applied, should not be the call of a single prosecutor, single judge, or a single jury given no punishment option other than death. The prosecutor who wishes to pursue the death penalty should have to convince a majority of prosecutorial peers that there is no other just option for punishment before being allowed to proceed. The judge, if that is where the decision between death and life without parole is made, should be tasked with making the same argument to his or her peers. The jury should always have the option of a life sentence that, if chosen, cannot be changed by the presiding judge, and when death is chosen (and the vote must be unanimous), every juror should be required to submit in writing his or her reasons for their decisions with these statements entered into the public record.
The death penalty, if it is to be levied and applied, should not be the call of a single prosecutor, single judge, or a single jury given no punishment option other than death. The prosecutor who wishes to pursue the death penalty should have to convince a majority of prosecutorial peers that there is no other just option for punishment before being allowed to proceed. The judge, if that is where the decision between death and life without parole is made, should be tasked with making the same argument to his or her peers. The jury should always have the option of a life sentence that, if chosen, cannot be changed by the presiding judge, and when death is chosen (and the vote must be unanimous), every juror should be required to submit in writing his or her reasons for their decisions with these statements entered into the public record.
12
Heartbreaking. But the answer is not to abolish it, it is to have a standardized process nationwide that reserves it for only the worst offenders and have a racially and ethnically balanced council that has the final say. Anyone who advocates for an end should ask themselves this: if Hitler or Bin Laden were captured alive, should they be spared the death penalty?
2
Creating a standard process that solves for the extreme case is not very useful or fair, as the extreme cases are never standard. We should not have a justice system that routinely executes people unfairly just in case another Hitler or Osama comes around.
1
So if we consider why we have any penalty we might come up with a few reasons. First we want to deter the individual from further crime. In this case it seems like the individual can never be trusted to be free in our society. Next we want to deter others, in this case that is not a real consideration. Finally we want our punishment to be cost effective. There is no doubt that he is guilty, should never be released. So execution is both cost effective if properly applied and humane. Keeping him in jail forever is cruel.
4
Death penalty costs 2-3 times more than LWOP, so your argument is a non sequitur. DP no more effective in deterring others from murder than LWOP. Both "incapacitate the offender thereby protecting society. DP is an oxymoron and should be abolished.
The death penalty is not cost-effective. Because of the appeal process, which is very expensive and costs millions of dollars typically, it is far more expensive to carry a death penalty to its conclusion (execution) than it would be to impose life without parole.
Furthermore, as the article has pointed out, there have been mistakes. Some actually innocent people have been executed, and a significant number of people sentenced to death have subsequently been exonerated by evidence such as DNA evidence. The death penalty is irrevocable. Society is at fault and guilty when it executes an actually innocent person, and this will happen as long as the death penalty remains on the books and is carried out.
Furthermore, as the article has pointed out, there have been mistakes. Some actually innocent people have been executed, and a significant number of people sentenced to death have subsequently been exonerated by evidence such as DNA evidence. The death penalty is irrevocable. Society is at fault and guilty when it executes an actually innocent person, and this will happen as long as the death penalty remains on the books and is carried out.
Since 2000, the rate of death-sentencing per murder in the death states, even those states with the 16 counties, is about 3%, way below the 11% rate that the Supreme Court in 1972 in Furman found to be so low as to invite the arbitrary and capricious application of capital punishment. Those 1972 conditions were unconstitutional. The conditions today seem to be even more egregious than was the case 44 years ago. Exonerations continue to pile up, as do routine reversals of death sentences due to systemic failures in the trial courts. No amount of nose-counting gymnastics by the Supreme Court can deny this fact, and there is no reason to think that this will change. It's time to end capital punishment.
22
Excellent article. The poverty, both psychological and financial, that so many broken live in: what will we do to end that?
24
At what point will a simple execution not satisfy the public's thirst for retribution. How many times have you heard someone say, killing him/her isn't good enough. Will these counties institute more barbaric methods of doing the job like stoning or being drawn and quartered to satisfy their constituents? At what point will it all stop. The United States should join the rest of the civilized world and do away with executions.
46
Yes, England, France, Germany, Belgium and many other European countries recently invaded by the Moslem horde are very civilized these days. God forbid that we should ever become so civilized where mass crimes are simply ignored. We should keep our guns and ammo very close.
In my opinion, the death penalty requires an equality standard that would ensure that all facing death by execution have been treated the same from crime to arrest through trial and conviction regardless of race, color, creed, and socio-economic level.
6
Good luck with that!
2
Perhaps in a more perfect afterlife such a notion may prevail.
1
Yes … perhaps in a more perfect Heavenly afterlife such a fair death penalty might become reality. After all, God was known to have impartially and fairly cast an angel or two out of the Kingdom of Heaven!
1
Timothy McVey was permanently silenced with his death and while I won't say that brings comfort to the victims of his crimes, it also doesn't bring any further taunting, pain etc. Conversely, a friend lost her daughter to a murderer that find different ways of taunting her every year--media interviews, letters, etc.
Let's just say that is about as close as I can come to being a death penalty proponent. I can absorb and understand the hatred for someone who destroys your life and how hard it is to rest and move forward when you know that person is breathing and still managing ways to get joy from the crime they committed. In my friend's case, she has said that she cannot imagine pulling the plug on a criminal but would be grateful to have the state do so.
Even so, the death penalty is barbaric. Life is prisons or solitary confinement is barbaric. I have watched the documentaries about incarceration and they sicken me. Nothing about crime and punishment in America makes me feel comfortable.
If I could wave the magic wand, I would incarcerate in more humane ways---but never allow a murderer access to the outside world lest he or she use his voice to hurt again. No media interviews, no outside letters but air conditioning and rehabilitation inside. A walled compound, if not a walled garden.
But the death penalty is unevenly applied and beneath the sanctity of this great nation.
Let's just say that is about as close as I can come to being a death penalty proponent. I can absorb and understand the hatred for someone who destroys your life and how hard it is to rest and move forward when you know that person is breathing and still managing ways to get joy from the crime they committed. In my friend's case, she has said that she cannot imagine pulling the plug on a criminal but would be grateful to have the state do so.
Even so, the death penalty is barbaric. Life is prisons or solitary confinement is barbaric. I have watched the documentaries about incarceration and they sicken me. Nothing about crime and punishment in America makes me feel comfortable.
If I could wave the magic wand, I would incarcerate in more humane ways---but never allow a murderer access to the outside world lest he or she use his voice to hurt again. No media interviews, no outside letters but air conditioning and rehabilitation inside. A walled compound, if not a walled garden.
But the death penalty is unevenly applied and beneath the sanctity of this great nation.
85
"Timothy McVey was permanently silenced with his death and while I won't say that brings comfort to the victims of his crimes, it also doesn't bring any further taunting, pain etc. Conversely, a friend lost her daughter to a murderer that find different ways of taunting her every year--media interviews, letters, etc."
Did you read the article? This is exactly what the mother is trying to avoid by not advocating for his death and the endless appeals and media coverage that's usually generated.
Did you read the article? This is exactly what the mother is trying to avoid by not advocating for his death and the endless appeals and media coverage that's usually generated.
Your argument is based on emotion and emotion is not a reason to kill a human being.
Your proposal is a country club for murderers. Norway has that already, Mr Breivik now lives much better than he did before he killed dozens of people.
This is the example you want the USA to follow?
You really don't understand human nature, which is often irremediably evil.
Be kind to murderers? Pshaw
This is the example you want the USA to follow?
You really don't understand human nature, which is often irremediably evil.
Be kind to murderers? Pshaw
The death penalty serves one and only one purpose. It is the proof that we humans are just one more soul-less animal species living in a godless jungle.
The death penalty has not actually ever saved a single victim's life.
But it has caused many innocent persons to lose their lives at the hands of corrupt leaders.
The death penalty has not actually ever saved a single victim's life.
But it has caused many innocent persons to lose their lives at the hands of corrupt leaders.
13
What bothers me most about the left's position on the death penalty is the almost total lack of focus on the victim and the permanent damage to the victim's family. So the defendant is poor and somehow that makes it ok to kill?What I also find puzzling is the fact that liberals are against the death penalty but for abortion. Both are murder.
12
Liberals aren't "for" abortion; they're for a woman's right to choose at a point before the fetus is a child.
The defendant being poor doesn't make it okay to kill. The author is pointing out the circumstances in this man's life that led him to this point - cruel circumstances imposed on him by the state. The defendant should be punished, but punishing him and trying to kill him is just the tip of the iceberg.
Does his punishment erase the abuse he suffered? Does it erase the abuse others will suffer and are suffering right now? Killing defendants isn't the answer - changing how we treat poor (black) disadvantaged children is.
The defendant being poor doesn't make it okay to kill. The author is pointing out the circumstances in this man's life that led him to this point - cruel circumstances imposed on him by the state. The defendant should be punished, but punishing him and trying to kill him is just the tip of the iceberg.
Does his punishment erase the abuse he suffered? Does it erase the abuse others will suffer and are suffering right now? Killing defendants isn't the answer - changing how we treat poor (black) disadvantaged children is.
How does killing someone help the criminal's victims? Would killing Dylan Roof bring all those people back to life or make their families' pain less? No.
Most victims' advocacy is done by those on the left. It is people on the left. The states have a mish mash of programs families like James Rhodes'. Did you not read this article? He was once an 8 month old baby abandoned and left to be cared for-inadequately-by his grandmother. Had no adult interest shown by family. With an IQ in the 70's he is at best able to be trained to do routine jobs. He certainly couldn't handle owning a pistol. Getting to and from work is a challenge. Managing the very low income he would be likely to earn would take a full-time case manager. He needed stable housing. His IQ score for what it is worth in the 75 range would give him a 50/50 chance of entering high school but not completing a standard course. He would have no idea how to negotiate society's complex structures without a caregiver. He would probably be very little able to assist his attorneys in his defense as the process can be bewildering to a person with average or above intelligence. This young man was probably destined to something like this considering his early childhood. You don't mention your position on the death penalty. I am opposed for many reasons. As for other issues I consider one at a time using my conscience, ability to learn and understand, and the knowledge I have gained over a life of 66 years.
We need the death penalty nationwide. We also need national reciprocity for concealed carry.
4
It is ironic the concern show over the life of Rhodes after he committed murder and no real interest in finding out why he shot her after she had given him what he wanted. Instead of wasting energy trying to save a guy so he can die in jail, maybe the crusaders could try to change the culture that produces Rhodes type behavior.
23
High on drugs and with an IQ of 69 does he know?
Thank you Emily Bazelon for this excellent analysis. The death penalty is barbaric. it's implementation reeks with the stench of racial and class discrimination and it should have been abolished eons ago.
19
This is simply state sponsored murder. There should be some way to bring the prosecutor and judges up on charges. And people continue to chant "All lives matter" as if it is true. No, they don't. They don't matter to people who are prejudiced against the poor and people of color. No wonder there is outrage and rioting. I'm just surprised it has taken this long.
12
I support the death penalty, and I think most Americans do - even those who protest it. To genuinely oppose the death penalty, one can make no exceptions. if you really oppose capital punishment, you must protest it's use on terrorists like Dylan Roof, as loudly as you protest it's use on guys like James Rhodes.
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That said, I would be happy if only the Federal Courts were allowed to impose the death penalty. The real issue seems to be that city and county criminal courts aren't up to the task of handling something with that gravity. If you've ever seen some of the stupid things these courts do on the eveninnews, you'll agree with me. By putting it at the Federal level, we could solve most of the problems.
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That said, I would be happy if only the Federal Courts were allowed to impose the death penalty. The real issue seems to be that city and county criminal courts aren't up to the task of handling something with that gravity. If you've ever seen some of the stupid things these courts do on the eveninnews, you'll agree with me. By putting it at the Federal level, we could solve most of the problems.
16
what does killing Dylan get us? Might be ok, just not sure what advantages there are to killing rather than housing him in prison gets us. What does that do for society?
I oppose the death penalty. No exceptions.
1
As of 2012 there were 41 different Federal Crimes punishable by death. I don't think any state has more than one. We could have as many as China, Russia, Singapore, and Saudi Arabia combined and not solve many of our problems. No city or county court that I am aware handles major crimes other than for county courts to arraign defendants. Considering our form of government it is unlikely that any state would be willing to turn over its court system to the Federal Government. We can't even agree on appointing Federal Judges when a vacancy opens.
The State makes all of us participants in killing, with the death penalty.
7
The State makes all of us participants in kidnapping, with imprisonment. The State makes all of us participants in robbery, with speeding tickets.
One question for Ms. Bazelon; why do you think Mr. Rhodes isn't among the "worst of the worst"? He shot Ms. Farah deliberately and without provocation after she complied with his demands in a robbery -- in other words, "in cold blood."
34
She can't answer you, so I will. 1) Because he expressed remorse. 2) Because he was prepared to plead guilty and accept punishment. 3) Because he killed one person with a pistol, not dozens of people with an assault rifle (for example). 4) Because he was abandoned as a child and, lacking even the most basic skills required to support himself, turned to crime as a last resort.
I believe the point is that the state is not supposed to kill people unless there's no other viable alternative for punishment. I don't know about you, but I prefer a justice system that has the capacity to make fine distinctions and demonstrate mercy.
I believe the point is that the state is not supposed to kill people unless there's no other viable alternative for punishment. I don't know about you, but I prefer a justice system that has the capacity to make fine distinctions and demonstrate mercy.
It may be worthwhile to directly make the point that southern California is the major center of implementation of the death penalty rather.
Los Angeles, Orange County, and San Bernadino are all neighbors. Orange County is south of LA, San Bernadino to the east.
And Las Vegas, in Clark County NV, is bordered by San Bernadino county - San Bernadino is the largest county in the country and literally stretches from LA to Las Vegas.
But this cluster of counties using the death penalty should be considered notable within the group of 16 counties.
As for "suburban" Orange County is the second most densely populated county in California, after San Francisco, with the 3rd largest population. There are 4 cities with populations of over 200,000 and several more over 100,000, in this county of 3.2 million people crammed into 800 square miles with a population greater than that of 21 states.
Not really suburban, is it?
Los Angeles, Orange County, and San Bernadino are all neighbors. Orange County is south of LA, San Bernadino to the east.
And Las Vegas, in Clark County NV, is bordered by San Bernadino county - San Bernadino is the largest county in the country and literally stretches from LA to Las Vegas.
But this cluster of counties using the death penalty should be considered notable within the group of 16 counties.
As for "suburban" Orange County is the second most densely populated county in California, after San Francisco, with the 3rd largest population. There are 4 cities with populations of over 200,000 and several more over 100,000, in this county of 3.2 million people crammed into 800 square miles with a population greater than that of 21 states.
Not really suburban, is it?
4
I'm missing your point. The area from Boston, MA to Richmond, VA is one large megalopolis with over 1/3 of the U.S. population living there. A lot of those people consider themselves suburbanites and have some of the lowest murder rates in the country. Texas, Ohio, Alabama, Oklahoma, and Virginia in that order carried out the most executions between 2007-2010. Texas has executed 537 people since 1976, Ohio=53, Alabama=57, Oklahoma-112, and Virginia-112. California has executed 13 people since 1973. Nevada has executed 12. California's murder rate is down from 9.1 per 100,000 in 1996 to 4.4 per 100,000 in 2014.
This article would be more compelling if it provided valid arguments as to why Dylan Roof should not face the death penalty. There may be questionable cases where the death penalty is applied, but that's an argument to mend it, not end it. If we are going to eliminate the death penalty totally, we have to argue that it is inappropriate even for the most egregious murders.
46
Those opposed to the death penalty would argue it's impossible to mend, and that the only way to prevent some people from being unfairly executed is by preventing all people from being executing.
23
Because sentencing someone to death means you have stooped as low as the murderer.
9
If the death penalty has not been "fixed" after all these decades it appears it is not fixable.
4
Of all advanced nations, the supposedly 'greatest' country of the world still has the death penalty, while constantly lecturing other nations about human rights.
Proud to be an American? Hardly....
Proud to be an American? Hardly....
47
Some people just need to die after the crimes they committed. Do you want us to walk you through photographs of butchered children or tortured women victims? No, you wouldn't look, and if you can't look you shouldn't have a say in it.
14
And some people are executed even though they are innocent.
1
And how many have been found not guilty after the fact of having been put to death?
Do I have to walk you through that?
And thanks for suggesting I 'shouldn't have a say'. Don't you and yours always talk about the freeeedom of speech?
And it is no coincidence that the ones for the death penalty are also the supposed pro-lifers and gun rights advocates.
Do I have to walk you through that?
And thanks for suggesting I 'shouldn't have a say'. Don't you and yours always talk about the freeeedom of speech?
And it is no coincidence that the ones for the death penalty are also the supposed pro-lifers and gun rights advocates.
1
How do death penalty opponents deal with the case of the younger brother of the Boston Marathon bombers? There's no doubt of guilt in that case; and so there's no concern of mistakenly executing an innocent man. And he's not an African-American, so there's no chance of the death-penalty being applied unfairly in the case. In that case liberals have to admit that they are simply against the death penalty in principle; it has nothing to do with racism or concern about executing someone who is innocent.
45
They don't. They are victims waiting to happen.
In "principle" is what we the people say it is through voting. There is nothing wrong about the idea that people are against executions because of the principle of being against this type of punishment.
2
Why can't one be against the death penalty both in principle and for the way it is applied? By the way, is there no chance that a Muslim is subject to prejudice in the US? The US justice system is uniquely vengeful among "advanced" countries.
1
The crimes are so horrific, the lives taken so innocent, the chance of eventual release from prison seemingly certain and the cost of incarceration high...
22
The death penalty costs more than life incarceration.
8
All reasons to quickly and humanely execute such.
1
It costs far more to carry a death penalty case to its conclusion (execution) than life without parole (i.e., zero chance of eventual release from prison). The argument that it's too costly to imprison for life is simply wrong on the facts.
Why is there a random, blurry picture of a Metro PCS store as the lede photo for this article? Is Metro PCS killing people?
Oh, I'll read the article and find out the meaning of this photo. But it's a weird choice to accompany a death penalty story.
Oh, I'll read the article and find out the meaning of this photo. But it's a weird choice to accompany a death penalty story.
8
You might want to just check out the caption...
1
For your own sake, and the sake of those who spend time reading your posts, please consider reading articles before commenting on them, although it bears some similarities to the rush to judgements described in the article.
2
For many years, the death penalty served as a score card for certain ambitious prosecutors. It was proof of how tough they were on crime, and how good they were at keeping the community safe. It's something a prosecutor can impress voters with should the prosecutor want to run for District Attorney, judge, or other political office.
Recently, this trend has reversed, as there is more and more data calling into question the assumption that the death penalty deters violent crime, and people are starting to look at the economic and human costs of the death penalty. People are starting to shed the assumption that "eye for an eye" should be the guiding principle in criminal justice. Even some prosecutors are starting to question the value of the death penalty.
But I think the old mentality lives on in many places, like the handful of counties that this article is talking about, counties that generate a disproportionate number of death sentences. In these places, it seems willingness to issue the death sentence is still treated as proof of the community's commitment to justice.
Recently, this trend has reversed, as there is more and more data calling into question the assumption that the death penalty deters violent crime, and people are starting to look at the economic and human costs of the death penalty. People are starting to shed the assumption that "eye for an eye" should be the guiding principle in criminal justice. Even some prosecutors are starting to question the value of the death penalty.
But I think the old mentality lives on in many places, like the handful of counties that this article is talking about, counties that generate a disproportionate number of death sentences. In these places, it seems willingness to issue the death sentence is still treated as proof of the community's commitment to justice.
12
I hope Justice Roberts reads this and then rethinks his comment that the problem of race and discrimination has been largely solved in this country.
156
He actually said that??!? He is living in a more opaque bubble than I had thought.
I think he was speaking speaking personally - saying the problem had been largely solved for himself.
(1) It is frightening how relatively little it is that the privileged element of our society understands - or even cares to understands - the challenges faced by the highly underprivileged, and how this can contribute to the sometimes terrible things they do; (2) if killing is so inexcusable, we shouldn't be doing so much of it institutionally; and (3) why are those who supposedly want to preserve life invariably the ones who are so anxious to put people to death and go to war?
145
War and murder are quite different, perhaps you want to support life for fetus?
2
I understand the disparities in the death penalty but I'm floored by the implication that the challenges faced by the "underprivileged" in some way excuse shooting someone in the face during a robbery.
1
Mike: the appearance of this investigative article in the NYT should dispel (1) above. In spite of gut feelings, is there any evidence of a correlation between those who work to preserve life and those who put people to death (3)? The very issue raised by the article is indeed whether institutionalized killing is inexcusable (2).
It is as random as being struck by lightening? I think not. Just look at race and economic status of those put to death.
24
I find the death penalty to be barbarous and am in favor of life imprisonment, but looking at race and economic status just indicates that, for whatever reasons, those are the people committing the crimes and therefore getting the death sentence.
3
In the meantime, we should also look at the race and economic status of those who committed crimes and did egregious harm to the society.
1
On the other hand, just look at the "race and economic status" of those who commit the crimes.and those who are the victims...........etc. etc. etc.
Once a murderer is convicted by a court, the decision to invoke the death penalty should be made by the victim's family. Only the family can decide whether executing the killer can bring some semblance of closure to their grief.
To be really honest about it, the fact that such killers as James Rhodes were abused and abandoned in their lives is tragic. The fact that such killers as James Rhodes had such a low IQ is unfortunate. The reality that such killers as James Rhodes never really had a chance in life is a sad commentary on the reality of growing up poor in a dysfunctional subculture.
But it doesn't change the simple reality that such people as James Rhodes grow into young adulthood with zero conscience, zero empathy, zero control over themselves and supremely indifferent to the pain they choose to inflict on some innocent person. All too often, the pain and suffering they choose to inflict is incidental to gratifying themselves. The trend among such people in recording their knock out games, their assaults, their violence attests to their twisted states of mind.
Are such people as James Rhodes accountable for their murders? Accountable to the point of being executed for their execution of someone else?
Yes, if the family affected by the murder believes that the death penalty will ease their own suffering through some form of closure. Maybe it's more vengeance than Christian forgiveness or antiseptic justice informed by pop psychology. But so be it.
To be really honest about it, the fact that such killers as James Rhodes were abused and abandoned in their lives is tragic. The fact that such killers as James Rhodes had such a low IQ is unfortunate. The reality that such killers as James Rhodes never really had a chance in life is a sad commentary on the reality of growing up poor in a dysfunctional subculture.
But it doesn't change the simple reality that such people as James Rhodes grow into young adulthood with zero conscience, zero empathy, zero control over themselves and supremely indifferent to the pain they choose to inflict on some innocent person. All too often, the pain and suffering they choose to inflict is incidental to gratifying themselves. The trend among such people in recording their knock out games, their assaults, their violence attests to their twisted states of mind.
Are such people as James Rhodes accountable for their murders? Accountable to the point of being executed for their execution of someone else?
Yes, if the family affected by the murder believes that the death penalty will ease their own suffering through some form of closure. Maybe it's more vengeance than Christian forgiveness or antiseptic justice informed by pop psychology. But so be it.
41
So if he was raised by the State of Florida, is Florida responsible for how he turned out? I think they are. Until we stop throwing away the poor and most vulnerable, we have no one to blame but ourselves.
5
Juries should decide, as the conscience of the community, not grief-stricken families. Our Constitution does not give families the right to decide what punishment the State should impose. The problem with the now stricken Florida law, and the current Alabama law, is that it allowed judges to override a jury's decision to impose a life sentence, and issue a sentence of death.
6
It is much more about keeping society safe than the personal opinion of the family. Such can never be allowed back in society so death is a nice option.
1
An excellent well-researched and written piece. There is very little I could add except that I truly hope we might see the end of the death penalty sooner than later. It would mark a very basic and simple beginning in advancing the cause of racial justice in this country.
95
I agree but for a much different reason, let's have much less criminal activity and none that would justify the death penalty. But in say Chicago killings happen far too frequently, they need the death penalty.
4
Vulcanalex, capital punishment has been shown NOT to be a deterrent. In fact, there is an opposite correlation -- can't go so far as to say it's definitely cause and effect, but places that execute people have higher murder rates.
"Just Mercy," a book by Bryan Stevenson, is required reading for all incoming freshmen at Elon University in North Carolina. Since my daughter is entering in the Fall, I decided to read this book. Anyone who reads it should come away with various certainties about the death penalty, similar to citations in this article: it disproportionately affects African Americans, it disproportionately occurs in these few American counties, and it is "systemic" in those and only those counties. The vast majority of these counties are in states that initiated a war to retain their peculiarly-named "peculiar institution:" slavery, specifically the enslavement of African Americans, including their forced labor, treatment as "property," and denial of all basic human rights. That war produced more American casualties than every other war combined since then. Yet its result is denied and its Confederate aims resuscitated on a daily basis by those who still support public monuments to its cause and leaders, and the waving and displaying of its flag. And both within and beyond these counties, the peculiar institution most responsible for the gerrymandering, voter suppression, and loophole legislation that makes it all not just possible but actively supported is none other than the Republican Party, nationally, every one. If you call yourself that, then you are this: a perpetrator, witting or not, of everything evil and wrong cited in this article.
222
As the article points out, "the 16 counties span seven states in the South and the West. They include major cities, like Los Angeles, Houston, Las Vegas and Phoenix; suburban areas like Orange County, Calif., and San Bernardino, Calif.; and semirural pockets like Mobile County, Ala., and Caddo Parish, La." California and Arizona weren't Confederates states.
4
So by your logic because some states don't believe in the death penalty nobody should be allowed to use it? Now of course those that commit crimes that might get death are more represented.
4
I always disagree with those who leap on the word "disproportionate". There simply is no code anywhere which could be used as a guide. We cannot apply "justice" on a one-for-one basis just by apportioning out the sentences based on race, religion, income, residence, beliefs, crime committed, country, sex, circumstances, age, and so on and on and on. Murders are not committed on such a basis, nor can sentencing be done that way.
Despite the barbarity of the death penalty and according to your article, "Today polls show that more than 60 percent of Americans continue to favor capital punishment, though more than half say they would prefer to impose life without parole if given the option."
If SCOTUS even remotely considers public opinion in its decisions (something I frequently question) then the death penalty still has popular footing and is here to stay until America comes to its senses and acknowledges this practice of revenge over logic and humanity.
It is painful to bring up Trump campaign fueled anger issues that are leading to such dissent, but for the present, a large swath of public opinion is likely to be terribly slanted and not favorable for the removal of the death penalty. In other words, it still lives. Unfortunately.
If SCOTUS even remotely considers public opinion in its decisions (something I frequently question) then the death penalty still has popular footing and is here to stay until America comes to its senses and acknowledges this practice of revenge over logic and humanity.
It is painful to bring up Trump campaign fueled anger issues that are leading to such dissent, but for the present, a large swath of public opinion is likely to be terribly slanted and not favorable for the removal of the death penalty. In other words, it still lives. Unfortunately.
21
Well, recall that during the GOP convention, one Trump delegate from New Hampshire stated that Hillary Clinton should be taken outside and executed for treason. And no one contradicted him or told him to sit down and shut up. Not Trump, Ryan, McConnell, or anyone else in the Republican "leadership."
Dark days ahead . . .
Dark days ahead . . .
1
But if more than half of the 60% would prefer a life without parole option, then a clear majority actually rejects the death penalty. Why is this 60% with the qualifier cited so often to indicate support for death when it doesn't? Where did that survey come from, anyway?
1
Why would you think SCOTUS should take public opinion (rather than the Constitution ) into account? We live in a country of laws, not of men.
The death penalty has nothing to do with justice and everything to do with revenge. It is incompatible with an advanced society.
We are not safer because of it: we are less civilized because of it.
We are not safer because of it: we are less civilized because of it.
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As heinous as some crimes may be, we, as a country need to put an end to the death penalty. It is barbaric, ancient, and worthless.
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I am a former prosecutor. I am opposed to the death penalty. I've seen zealot prosecutors who wish to win at all costs. I've seen innocent men and women go to jail. I've seen a corrupt criminal justice system that assumes blacks and Hispanics did the crime based on their color alone. I've seen a criminal justice system that assumes blacks are animals and if they didn't do the crime charged, they must have committed others where they weren't arrested. I've seen judges who witnessed these sins do nothing. I've seen prosecutors and judges retire, collect their great pensions and remain silent. I've seen enough. Stop the death penalty once and for all.
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If you were indeed a "former prosecutor", I can only wonder what you were doing while - if as you claim - that "innocent men and women" went to jail. Where were you at the moment of truth?
3
As an insider, your perspective carries a lot of weight.
1
You've personally seen all these things and as a prosecutor all you did about it was post an anonymous forum post?
I frankly dont believe you.
I've worked in the Justice system for over 20 years and have seen none of those things.
I frankly dont believe you.
I've worked in the Justice system for over 20 years and have seen none of those things.
Execution should only be used for only the "worst of the worst" according to David Souter. When a murderer blows the brains out of your child, I suggest the threshold is met. Is it possible to get worse?
75
Yes. Perhaps you don't know what serial killers do to their victims before and after they kill them. It's incredible, unthinkable. And they rinse and repeat--on to the next victim. I'd say that's worse.
3
The mother of the victim thinks he should live.
May all embrace the courage and refusal to seek vengeance which Mrs. Farah exhibited. She found the courage, the love, to look beyond the murder of her daughter.
What she saw beyond that death was this:
How a child could be murdered by racism, discrimination, abject poverty, abandonment, poverty, hopelessness, and the absence of simple love and kindness.
And politics.
"...Jesus said, 'Suffer little children Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.'"
- Matthew 19:14
What she saw beyond that death was this:
How a child could be murdered by racism, discrimination, abject poverty, abandonment, poverty, hopelessness, and the absence of simple love and kindness.
And politics.
"...Jesus said, 'Suffer little children Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.'"
- Matthew 19:14
14
This article is a reminder of what first-class journalism can look like. Thank you, Ms. Bazelon, for the work that went into piecing together this picture - of a system that in certain places still seems to be more about the residue of an evil history, and the personal needs and limitations of some current lawyers, than about equal justice for all.
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Shelby Farah was killed with a gun. A gun in the possession of a kid who clearly did not have the cognitive ability to possess one.
It only becomes a death penalty issue after the fact.
Eye for an eye justice sounds great - and maybe in some clear cut cases it brings comfort to people seeking retribution. However as this article so eloquently points out - it doesn't work.
However the real criminal in this case is the congress which is stonewalled revisions to gun laws for decades. Congress killed Shelby Farrah just as much as James Rhodes did.
Wake up America. It's time to end the private ownership of military weapons - semi-automatic rifles like the AR16 and pistols like the Sig Sauer.
If we can repeal Prohibition, then we can repeal the 2nd and replace it with laws that make sense. We can do this.
It only becomes a death penalty issue after the fact.
Eye for an eye justice sounds great - and maybe in some clear cut cases it brings comfort to people seeking retribution. However as this article so eloquently points out - it doesn't work.
However the real criminal in this case is the congress which is stonewalled revisions to gun laws for decades. Congress killed Shelby Farrah just as much as James Rhodes did.
Wake up America. It's time to end the private ownership of military weapons - semi-automatic rifles like the AR16 and pistols like the Sig Sauer.
If we can repeal Prohibition, then we can repeal the 2nd and replace it with laws that make sense. We can do this.
21
(Not Mark) Was it a legally registered firearm? Did he buy it legally? I doubt it. Whether or not guns are banned, it matters not one whit in this case. He would have an illegal gun anyway. This idea that gun crime will just disappear if we ban them is so simplistic, it really is a silly idea. Criminals will still have guns, just like they do now. Think about it. As an aside, not a gun owner, probably never will be one.
3
Repealing the Second Amendment would be more like enacting Prohibition, with similar results.
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It's a reinterpretation of the 2nd that is required, we already write laws to govern how people exercise any of the amendments. Unlawful searches, seizures and confiscation, and oh yes, extraordinary rendition just to mention a few.
The "worst of the worst" sounds exactly like your featured killer. It doesn't matter if its 1 person or 50. I appreciate his challenges with a broken home, but that's no excuse. If lethal injection isn't humane, bring back the naval code hanging or firing squad, or the guillotine which is likely the most humane of all. An eye for an eye.
34
I think Dick Cheney is the worst of the worst. He killed at least 150,000 innocent civilians during the Iraq war, and he ordered many of them tortured. Rhodes doesn't come close to that.
When you've executed Cheney, we can talk about the death penalty for lesser killers.
When you've executed Cheney, we can talk about the death penalty for lesser killers.
"Equality before the law". What a quaint concept. How quixotic the men and women who fought and died for it.
1
I think it's very easy to dismiss the death penalty as barbaric when you're on the outside looking in. If what had happened to Shelby happened to my daughter, I would want the killer dead.
82
Mom to mom, I totally get that feeling.
1
I guess the family of the victim is much more Christian than you. Who woulda thunk!
To be honest, I might want the killer dead if he had shot my daughter. I'm not sure. However, I am almost positive my 28 year old daughter would not want that. I will ask her today.
2
He shot a defenseless person in the head. He is the "worst of the worse."
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The white people who shoot defenseless black people in the head are also the "worst of the worst." But they don't get executed.
And the white cops who shoot defenseless, innocent black people certainly don't get executed.
And the white cops who shoot defenseless, innocent black people certainly don't get executed.
You shoot a person in the head AFTER they give you the money! If that's not the worst of the worse, then what is?
85
I know, but in reading this article you'd think he was the victim. I remember back in the 80s these 2 punks shot 18 year old Chrissy Evinrude (of boat company fame) as part of a robbery of the convenience store she was working at in the vicinity of Jupiter, Florida. Two or three years later they went to the electric chair, an appropriate and timely outcome they so richly deserved, one not so grossly attenuated by intervening decades to have lost the nexus to the offense that makes it compelling as just retribution and deterrence.
2
The conservative Republican Governor of NM wants to introduce legislation to establish the death penalty in this state after a policeman was killed by two men on the run from Ohio. She is angling for national exposure with the right wing for her own political reasons. Horrible woman.
22
Land of the Free, yet it has the highest proportion in the Western world of people in prison. Yay, it's good to be free.
14
If you had the same minority percentages, Canada would be identical in crime to the US. There's nothing superior about Canadians.
7
It's easy for spread-out Switzerland to look down and judge from afar. You don't have the same demographics and history. Meanwhile I'd suggest you look at what's happening to your indigenous population in certain remote towns.
4
Yes keeping criminals away from me makes me free.
1
The main long term effect of the death penalty is to help elect idea bankrupt demagogue pols like Trump..
It is a tailor made issue for him....
It is a tailor made issue for him....
7
I guess i am not true liberal. Let this guy be killed. It is a simple matter of prevention. If he gets off, he could get out of jail. Once out, he could kill again. He doesn't know any better. He cannot help himself. He can't tell the diff between right and wrong. It is not his fault. He was abused. No one loved him.
58
but then he'll spend 20 or more years in prison first, turning his execution into a cruel and unusual (and pathetic) punishment-one completely eviscerated of its retributive and deterrent quality-that it would not be if carried out in a timely fashion.
"It is not his fault. He was abused. No one loved him"
There are many people who would treat a dog with this type of background with more humanity.
There are many people who would treat a dog with this type of background with more humanity.
If it were a matter of euthanasia, your argument would make sense.
Our criminals come from all corners of our grass-whorled country, from the mountains of Montana and the Unabomber, to the cross-country murdering by Ted Bundy, to the munching on faces by one Jeffery Dahmer - all three from the White Community. Crime owns no one ethnic group, not in America...
21
It's people at the bottom of the socio-economic order who are disproportionately charged with crimes because they are disprortionately committing them. Thus, back in the day large numbers of Irish and Italians were in prisons and being executed. So until this underlying issue is dealt with, the drivers of crime will remain, but it would be naive to think that this should represent a blank check and excuse to the individual offender, whether black or rust belt "trash", to continue his or her depredations without consequence. Doing that only enables and emboldens them and exacerbates the disintegration of our comminities.
1
In America, certain demographic groups commit crimes - including violent crimes - at a rate that is vastly disproportionate to the relative size of their communities.
https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2013/crime-in-the-u.s.-2013/tables/...
https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2013/crime-in-the-u.s.-2013/tables/...
You state "a tiny fraction of the country generates an alarming number of death sentences". What's alarming is the paltry number of violent criminals sentenced to death.
20
Yeah, and over a hundred men sentenced to death were found not guilty and released.
7
As the article mentions, good public defender services can play a major role in curbing the misapplication of the death penalty, as well as almost every other excess of the criminal justice system. I have been a public defender in a medium-sized county in California, and now represent indigent clients on appeal in court-appointed cases from many parts of the state. I have seen cases from counties with well-funded and well-organized public defender services. I have also seen cases from counties that operate its public defender services on the Walmart model: cheap, low quality, and taking cases in bulk quantities. In these types of jurisdictions, even smart, well-meaning, hard-working public defenders can't provide effective defenses for their clients because they are given no resources and are asked to take on ridiculous case loads.
The availability of professional public services does not seem to get much attention in the current wave of criminal justice reforms. As important as all these other reforms are, we need to focus more on this right to counsel. Because our legal system is adversarial, the right to effective counsel is the most basic and effective way of keeping the system fair. You shouldn't have to be rich to get a fair shot in court. Improving public defender services will help with almost every other target of reform, including the misapplication of the death penalty.
The availability of professional public services does not seem to get much attention in the current wave of criminal justice reforms. As important as all these other reforms are, we need to focus more on this right to counsel. Because our legal system is adversarial, the right to effective counsel is the most basic and effective way of keeping the system fair. You shouldn't have to be rich to get a fair shot in court. Improving public defender services will help with almost every other target of reform, including the misapplication of the death penalty.
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Is this case a misapplication? There seems to be some idea that people who are actually guilty should get off because they have a great lawyer, the opposite would be better if nobody who is guilty gets off due to great lawyers.
1
I suspect that the problem lies in a place you slightly mentioned - "a fair shot in court". Just who would get to make the decision about what constitutes a "fair shot in court", and would that decision be reviewed? And reviewed? And on and on and on........And who would get to decide who gets to be the reviewer?
@vulcanalex
I don't know enough about THIS particular case to say. However, I would like to point out some ways where having experienced counsel in death penalty cases can make a big difference.
The US Supreme Court has decided that defendants facing the death penalty has a right to jury to a separate phase of the trial where the jury decides whether the defendant receives the death penalty. In a separate case, the court also ruled a jury is entitled to consider evidence in mitigation.
So there's a couple of direct ways in which the quality of counsel, and the resources available to him or her, can affect whether a defendant receives the death penalty. Mitigation evidence could involve everything from defendant's abuse as a child, to evidence of remorse, to mental or developmental disorders that may otherwise not constitute a defense.
To obtain this kind of evidence is a labor-intensive process. You need investigators. You need mental health experts. All of this requires resources, and an experienced attorney who knows where to look and who knows how to present this evidence. But the jury will never know unless an attorney who doesn't have the resources or expertise gets it in front of them.
I don't know enough about THIS particular case to say. However, I would like to point out some ways where having experienced counsel in death penalty cases can make a big difference.
The US Supreme Court has decided that defendants facing the death penalty has a right to jury to a separate phase of the trial where the jury decides whether the defendant receives the death penalty. In a separate case, the court also ruled a jury is entitled to consider evidence in mitigation.
So there's a couple of direct ways in which the quality of counsel, and the resources available to him or her, can affect whether a defendant receives the death penalty. Mitigation evidence could involve everything from defendant's abuse as a child, to evidence of remorse, to mental or developmental disorders that may otherwise not constitute a defense.
To obtain this kind of evidence is a labor-intensive process. You need investigators. You need mental health experts. All of this requires resources, and an experienced attorney who knows where to look and who knows how to present this evidence. But the jury will never know unless an attorney who doesn't have the resources or expertise gets it in front of them.
Angela Corey is a well known and deeply flawed person. But they can not seem to vote her out of office. If ever a situation needed a Federal investigation of civil rights violations, corruption in elections and office, and plain incompetent and evil people, it is the northeast area of Florida. Lots of violence, lots of shootings-by police and civilians, and general lack of order or anything resembling a free society. Spooky place.
40
You mean like Sheriff Arpaio?
Totally false picture of Jacksonville and Northeast area of Florida. Yes, very conservative, but law abiding. Don't tell that to the rich folks coming to visit Amelia Island, Ponte Vedra Beach and the other nice places in the area. They will think you are nuts!
The death penalty is as barbaric as the crime itself. Yes, there are people that society needs to be protected from, however, the convicted almost always come from poverty and overwhelmingly are people of color.
159
"convicted almost always come from poverty and overwhelmingly are people of color" . . . Then the problem is not with those who have been convicted, it's with those that have not (and why they were not).
4
...and some of the people that society needs to be protected from are lawyers such as Corey
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Since 1976, 798 whites, 495 blacks, and 120 Latinos have been executed in the United States.
http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/race-death-row-inmates-executed-1976
http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/race-death-row-inmates-executed-1976
16