The author of this piece, John Eligon, has a twitter account in which he regularly posts on this issue from the vantage point of Black Lives Matter. Only a few hours ago, he posted the following tweet: "Must be said a lot of community members in Milwaukee were shouting down white anarchists from out of town who were trying to stir resistance". Like the ever-celebrated Ta-Nehisi Coates, Eligon appears to subscribe to the fatalistic theory that all problems in the black community are a direct result of systemic racism. The New York Times gives him a platform because this view seems to resonate regardless of the fact that it is entirely counterproductive.
14
The solution to this problem is for citizens to adhere to a few simple tactics:
1. Go to school every day, pay attention and don't create disturbances. Finishing high school, with a basic education, should be the ultimate goal during this phase. If possible, attend college or trade school.
2. Accept any job possible, in order to get your career started and work every day, following the boss' instructions without arguments. Accept promotions when possible. Change jobs when necessary, in order to advance your career.
3. Refrain from having children out of wedlock. When you do have children, prioritize raising them to become responsible citizens, mostly by setting a good example in your own life.
4. Follow all laws.
5. Refrain from using illegal drugs or abusing alcohol.
6. Stay out of debt, unless absolutely necessary.
If a person does these simple things, I can guarantee that they will live a fulfilling life. They may not become rich, but will never be hopeless.
1. Go to school every day, pay attention and don't create disturbances. Finishing high school, with a basic education, should be the ultimate goal during this phase. If possible, attend college or trade school.
2. Accept any job possible, in order to get your career started and work every day, following the boss' instructions without arguments. Accept promotions when possible. Change jobs when necessary, in order to advance your career.
3. Refrain from having children out of wedlock. When you do have children, prioritize raising them to become responsible citizens, mostly by setting a good example in your own life.
4. Follow all laws.
5. Refrain from using illegal drugs or abusing alcohol.
6. Stay out of debt, unless absolutely necessary.
If a person does these simple things, I can guarantee that they will live a fulfilling life. They may not become rich, but will never be hopeless.
16
Lying by police about the details of these shootings is one of the constants I've seen time after time. I don't know of one case where video has surfaced where the police account has been supported. Yet there are absolutely no consequences for lying by police. There's a culture among the police brotherhood that maintains a wall of protection for the miscreants and police unions that defend them regardless of the facts. As long as there is no accountability, there will be no peace. How difficult is that to understand? When police are held to the same harsh standard that they exercise on the street, things will change in that culture. But for now, the police are highly-paid thugs with gold-plated retirement accounts.
1
What has happened in Milwaukee in more a result of the policies, budget cuts, union busting, attempted redistricting and voter ID, and indifference of Governor Scott Walker. Explore his education cuts and voucher programs and it doesn't take much to conclude that the education of inner city Milwaukee is not his priority.
When there is no hope of living any other kind of life or realizing a life with opportunity outside the poverty stricken neighborhoods, dispair creates desperation. Politicians who want to run for higher office find it far more sexy to quote a resume that talks about dollars cut rather than dollars spent to invest in its greatest resource; the children of its poverty stricken areas.
When there is no hope of living any other kind of life or realizing a life with opportunity outside the poverty stricken neighborhoods, dispair creates desperation. Politicians who want to run for higher office find it far more sexy to quote a resume that talks about dollars cut rather than dollars spent to invest in its greatest resource; the children of its poverty stricken areas.
5
As I read this article and the rest of the NYT cover to cover everyday I feel so deflated. How Can we claim to live in the best country in the world when reality illustrates we have the same problems as the rest of the world. The USA is a racis, classist, divided country. Elect Trump and watch the house fall down...we need solutions, not more division!
2
Wow. just, wow. The suspect — who had a criminal record — was armed, not obeying order and was shot by a black officer. This same community was complaining endless about all the crime in it and then when the police do something about it, they complain again.
The city and police and in an endless Catch-22. There is no answer at all, especially when a community burns its own neighborhood.
Both stunning and pathetic.
The city and police and in an endless Catch-22. There is no answer at all, especially when a community burns its own neighborhood.
Both stunning and pathetic.
21
I have lived in the Milwaukee area all my life, and I can tell you it is one of the most de facto segregated cities in the country. People often forget that racism exists north of the mason dixon, but Milwaukee is sharply divided. Milwaukee public schools are the worst in the entire state, but the nearby affluent white suburban public schools are some of the best. Milwaukee has dismal rates of incarceration of black men, how are they supposed to be fathers if they are in jail? The cycle continues, with many feeling so hopeless and angry that they loot their own community. The other commenters seem to not realize the gravity of that fact- imagine how disenfranchised and hopeless someone must feel to loot their neighbors. Many people around here believe that the Milwaukee black community was a ticking time bomb, suffering from discriminatory housing, poor education, and overt racism for decades. Milwaukee needs to heal, and in order for that to happen we need to address the systematic disadvantages black people face here. Obviously I do not support rioting or arson, but I hope others pause to think about the underlying causes of this tragic event. We can't go on with business as usual, without community wide changes Milwaukee will continue to be a place of poverty, violence, and extremely tense race relations.
8
According to the Joint Center for Political Studies, Wisconsin is the worst and most most dangerous state for Black people. High poverty rate, high incarceration rate, obscenely high levels of hyper segregation, endemic police brutalitiy . the list goes on and on. It is not surprising that riots have occurred
6
Lots of small-picture comments coming from small minded insulated people who refuse to view this phenomenon in anything but one to one, naively moralized terms; 'the police officer was black, he was doing his job, this is outrageous, etc", "so it shouldn't happen, this article makes no sense/is out of focus." Should or shouldn't is largely irrelevant (by the way I don't think any cool headed person reasons that blowing up a gas station and attacking officers is a particularly moral and efficient means of change). The fact is that it has happened - now it is for us to ask with clarity honesty and a will to progress - WHY? HOW CAN THIS BE FIXED? This article does a nice job addressing and clarifying the beginning to a process of answering this question. Confronting the foundations of a problem does NOT necessarily mean justifying the riot, it is not a contradiction to view the riot as at once wrong and perfectly understandable in social/political/historical terms
3
It is a shame after 8 years of a Democratic administration we have been unable to create jobs for black people in America's cities. We are so busy saving the world while we neglect the problems we've had for generations. Roosevelt had a simple solution: start building things: dams, bridges and aircraft carriers. When WW2 came along all the defense spending Roosevelt did in the 1930s saved the world and made him look like a genius.
7
Hmmm, what about that stimulus that Obama tried to do in 2009, just like what you're talking about? Oh right, the Republican Party blocked his every move and called him a Muslim and unqualified to even be President.
2
Actually, the Soviets led by Uncle Joe doing the bulk of the fighting--Stalingrad--and dying--20-30 million--led the way to VE Day.
3
All those things you suggest now take far more skill than they used to. A welder working on an aircraft carrier now has to at minimum be a two year tech school graduate. A lot of work on dams and bridges was with pick and shovels in the 1930s. Now you need to be a skilled heavy equipment operator. This is part of the problem. Whatever the reason many of these young people do not have the skills and discipline they need for well paying jobs.
4
To the disturbing number of critical commenters here who think they have all the answers and they know best, a paraphrasing of some old and wise advice: Don't judge a community until you've walked in their shoes. You have no clue and no empathy.
3
nyerinpacnw - "Don't judge a community until you've walked in their shoes. You have no clue and no empathy."
True but we do all share the same HUMANITY and rioting, burning and looting are always WRONG no matter how many shoes we have to walk in.
True but we do all share the same HUMANITY and rioting, burning and looting are always WRONG no matter how many shoes we have to walk in.
11
The idea that these rioters are protesting racism should be rejected.
While the shooting itself by a black policeman does not appear racially motivated, I am in no position to take a position about the overall situation.
However, if people want to protest the behavior of the police, then take a page from the '60s and do a sit-down around the police station -- make your presence known to the police, make the lives of the police less comfortable, etc.
Burning and looting stores is engaging in robbery. It cannot be justified by alleged misbehavior of the police.
While the shooting itself by a black policeman does not appear racially motivated, I am in no position to take a position about the overall situation.
However, if people want to protest the behavior of the police, then take a page from the '60s and do a sit-down around the police station -- make your presence known to the police, make the lives of the police less comfortable, etc.
Burning and looting stores is engaging in robbery. It cannot be justified by alleged misbehavior of the police.
13
I am enthused and relieved that the first page of comments mentions that the person who was shot by the police brandished a weapon and was menacing. He also a stolen semiautomatic gun and had a very long rap sheet.
If the Times covers these stories as being the fault of the police, they will lose their credibility. It's time to report the stories as they are.
If the Times covers these stories as being the fault of the police, they will lose their credibility. It's time to report the stories as they are.
21
After reading this and the accounts of violence, it seems that BLM and the NYT just might be the most effective campaign tools that Donald Trump has. The scary thing is that if it keeps up, it just might work. After all the alternative isn't much better.
19
Keep the chaos coming and Trump will win. There is no excuses for this type of behavior. You can talk about disenfranchisement, etc. etc. but people aren't going to vote for a candidate that can't maintain law and order.
In addition, the Democrats have had decades of governance over these areas and have not been able to bring opportunity or advancement.
It's really about jobs. If there are opportunities for jobs and advancement, this wouldn't be the same place. But the same old excuses are trotted out to justify the fact that the US has not been serving its lower income, inner city, and even middle income citizens.
Democrats don't want to admit this. But it is becoming very clear that the policies of old, and the economic policies cited by Clinton as part of her platform are not enough.
Hello Donald Trump in 2016.
In addition, the Democrats have had decades of governance over these areas and have not been able to bring opportunity or advancement.
It's really about jobs. If there are opportunities for jobs and advancement, this wouldn't be the same place. But the same old excuses are trotted out to justify the fact that the US has not been serving its lower income, inner city, and even middle income citizens.
Democrats don't want to admit this. But it is becoming very clear that the policies of old, and the economic policies cited by Clinton as part of her platform are not enough.
Hello Donald Trump in 2016.
14
So, part of the problem is the lack of good-paying manufacturing jobs when the Great Migration came to Milwaukee.
Well, the only presidential candidate addressing that is... Donald Trump.
Well, the only presidential candidate addressing that is... Donald Trump.
14
Black cop shoots an armed black perp in the line of duty, how is that racist??
As for Baltimore incident, most of the arresting officers were black, prosecutor was black, judge was black, mayor is black, case was dealt with and the decision made and the matter is settled - again, where is the racism??
So...then we burn down and loot our Milwaukee retail base, owned by innocent store owners just trying to make a go of it. How does that help solve anything at all? And oh by the way, that was done on 14th street in DC the night after King was shot - the store owners left forever and the stores were never built back. 14th street remains a shuttered ghost town. Again, how did that improve the quality of life for DC blacks??
As to gentrification - tell me how that is a bad thing?
Who was it? Sir Thomas More? Who said: "And when the last law is down down, and the Devil turns 'round on you, where will you hide, the laws all being flat?"
As for Baltimore incident, most of the arresting officers were black, prosecutor was black, judge was black, mayor is black, case was dealt with and the decision made and the matter is settled - again, where is the racism??
So...then we burn down and loot our Milwaukee retail base, owned by innocent store owners just trying to make a go of it. How does that help solve anything at all? And oh by the way, that was done on 14th street in DC the night after King was shot - the store owners left forever and the stores were never built back. 14th street remains a shuttered ghost town. Again, how did that improve the quality of life for DC blacks??
As to gentrification - tell me how that is a bad thing?
Who was it? Sir Thomas More? Who said: "And when the last law is down down, and the Devil turns 'round on you, where will you hide, the laws all being flat?"
16
This is the perfect event for all the racist right wing comments. See I told you so, blah blah blah. Can you for one nano second imagine life as a young black man born into poverty without a father and no hope. I have zero empathy for many human behavioral defects but I can imagine. We know the cause of poverty, it's not nature it's nurture. How do we bend the curve back to hope? These kids need to be taught how to learn, to work, to be monogamous. It's never going to happen without progressive thought and action. Conservatives just don't care or even know how to care.
3
According to Albert Einstein the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. So more progressive thought by Einstein's definition is?
10
With 20% unemployment, nearly 1 in 8 black men having been incarcerated, systemic housing discrimination, and de facto school segregation it sounds like there must be a lot of longstanding rage and hopelessness behind these riots. The destruction is senseless and deplorable but there is a message behind the violence. America has been telling black people to solve their problems themselves, on their own, since the end of the Civil War. It's been 150 years and black people across the nation still struggle with high rates of poverty, crime, and violence in their communities. It's time to try something different. A good place to start is by listening and working to understand that black people live in an entirely different America.
5
We have not been telling African-Americans to go it alone. Since the passage of the Civil Rights Act in 1964, we have spent trillions of dollars and inaugurated any number of preferential programs in order to specifically address the damage that slavery and American apartheid caused. We have elevated millions of African-Americans out of poverty. Just last year, our President announced yet another initiative specifically directed at improving opportunities for young black men.
Why Democrat politicians, for whom I vote, never seem to go out of their way to inform African-Americans of the demographically specific aid that is available to them if they wish to get an education, seek employment, buy a house or etc. is a whole other issue.
Why Democrat politicians, for whom I vote, never seem to go out of their way to inform African-Americans of the demographically specific aid that is available to them if they wish to get an education, seek employment, buy a house or etc. is a whole other issue.
6
Despite grievances, which are real, there is no justification for rioting and harming the innocent. The police shot and killed an armed, serial offender. The rioters are trying to kill the police and to burn down the businesses of those unfortunate enough to have invested in the neighborhood.
15
The blight America's inner cities is a problem that we can with smart policy and investment. Our political leaders, taking a cue from their "constituency" (money), have other priorities. With political will and money to match (which America has), an investment approximately as big as the 08/09 stimulus directed at our urban centers would cure a lot of ills: fully equipped and functioning schools, community oriented policing; end of the Orwellian "war on drugs" as if drugs are overcrowding our prisons (hint: people are!). Many generations before us have contributed to this mess so any solution will require patience. But this is a problem that requires our national conscience and pocket books to align to save our cities. It's required to make sure America does not become a hypocritical embarrassment on the world stage. We are too blessed as a people to sit around while this continues to happen. The sixties movement partly assumed that change would come because change was needed. It did not foresee the inertia of entrenched politics. We have to keep clawing and grinding and demanding that our politicians work as hard for Milwaukee and Cleveland as they do for Wall Street and Washington DC.
3
Yet Fredrick Douglas learned how to read and write, very well at that. Lending to home buyers is a private business. The mayor, or the city council, has no control over that. They can't mandate who gets a loan. A loan is not a give away. A borrower still has to pay it back, with interest. Lenders have every right to expect that it will be paid back and so they evaluate a person's ability to pay a loan. If they don't have the financial resources or steady employment to pay back a loan the banks will not give it to them. Lenders want to make money and they make money off of white people who can afford a loan. The lenders will be glad to make money off of black people who can afford a loan too.
8
In the private business of home buying, public policy also resides, and collaborates. The story of a multi-million dollar sports stadium financed in part by the state of Wisconsin and the city of Milwaukee, with the penalties accruing to the public sector should the owner of the Bucks' default on his part (as I best understand this), one must then look to who owns the sports' team. A hedge fund individual who as it turns out owns the largest shares of the defaulting mortgages in those troubled areas of Milwaukee. Those private/ public divisions are just not as clear cut as you would have it.
1
When the reports of rioting in Milwaukee started appearing in newspapers, I half smiled and thought “finally.” I lived there for many years in the 80s and had never seen anything like it. There was nothing subtle about the racism towards blacks there; their beach was referred to as “Monkey Island” the n-word was used frequently and everything seemed as segregated as in the Jim Crow south. Although only 90 minutes north of Chicago, this hard drinking, German city seemed frozen in time because it was not an area one would have to pass through to get anywhere else in the country. Blacks seemed to be confined to a very small area of the inner city and only the very wealthy, those who could afford to send their children to the private “University School” made it out.
13
Why would you half-smile about rioting there? Secondly, what happened was NOT a racist act; a black criminal running away from the cops and carrying a gun stolen during a burglary and containing 23 rounds was shot dead by another BLACK cop when the criminal refused to drop the weapon.
Don't call it a racist act when it ain't. Shame on you.
Don't call it a racist act when it ain't. Shame on you.
16
The journalistic milieu here makes me wish for a left that eschews most PC thinking & its concomitant victimhood promotion. The left, it seems, must think this way to distinguish itself from the right.
Racism exists, no doubt. But I think the majority of the problem is economic, not social, justice.
Racism exists, no doubt. But I think the majority of the problem is economic, not social, justice.
9
Racial violence has been centuries in the making and if only decades in Milwaukee the citizenry of that city are more advanced than most others in our nation.
The racial refrain of violence directed toward all Americans of any color except white is one which has been played since our earliest settlers stepped ashore.
None of this is to say racial violence does not occur in other cultures or that it is directed exclusively toward people of darker skin tone than white.
Asian, African, Middle Eastern and European nations have histories of discrimination that makes ours pale in comparison. This is of course no consolation nor is it intended to dismiss what occurs across our nation rather to point out most of humanity is scared and vents their fear most easily through violence directed toward others who, by virtue of skin color, are the easiest to discern.
The ultimate result of violence releases this fear, however falsely and however temporarily, as a triumph over death which the perpetrator knows awaits him or her.
We are complex, frightened animals who have no idea why we are aware of our mortality and use violence and belief as means of deluding ourselves into thinking we control that undeniable fate.
Our evolution is slow and destructive to almost anything or anyone with whom we come in contact. I can only hope those among us who are most frightened will evolve before they destroy us all
The racial refrain of violence directed toward all Americans of any color except white is one which has been played since our earliest settlers stepped ashore.
None of this is to say racial violence does not occur in other cultures or that it is directed exclusively toward people of darker skin tone than white.
Asian, African, Middle Eastern and European nations have histories of discrimination that makes ours pale in comparison. This is of course no consolation nor is it intended to dismiss what occurs across our nation rather to point out most of humanity is scared and vents their fear most easily through violence directed toward others who, by virtue of skin color, are the easiest to discern.
The ultimate result of violence releases this fear, however falsely and however temporarily, as a triumph over death which the perpetrator knows awaits him or her.
We are complex, frightened animals who have no idea why we are aware of our mortality and use violence and belief as means of deluding ourselves into thinking we control that undeniable fate.
Our evolution is slow and destructive to almost anything or anyone with whom we come in contact. I can only hope those among us who are most frightened will evolve before they destroy us all
1
Just think how different life would and could be if guns were kept out of public life.
2
There wouldn't be as many murders, but the weapons of choice would change. Murders by knives and other sharp objects would probably be the most common, Any heavy objects from fists and lamps to cars and trucks with death by blunt force trauma would be next. A cord for strangling might be third. You might have an occasional drowning to throwing someone off a building. It still comes down to the people using a weapon.
1
Another death at the hands of the Police. Another poor person dies and this time some people are using it to unload all the hate they have built up. Does it matter that the Police Officer was black? Hard times answering that.
But, when it comes to eroding the trust of the community, there is no defending the past record of the thin blue line protecting KNOWN murderers on the force. Hang your heads Police Officers from ALL cities.
Milwaukee is simply a byproduct of what has transpired previously. Right or wrong, both sides are to blame, but only one of those sides are paid officials in a position of trust in the local Government. Remember your training, take the high road. Stop thinking your "brother" is in this for you as well, he is not if he is a murderer. Time to purge the these mentally or emotionally damaged people from the force!!
But, when it comes to eroding the trust of the community, there is no defending the past record of the thin blue line protecting KNOWN murderers on the force. Hang your heads Police Officers from ALL cities.
Milwaukee is simply a byproduct of what has transpired previously. Right or wrong, both sides are to blame, but only one of those sides are paid officials in a position of trust in the local Government. Remember your training, take the high road. Stop thinking your "brother" is in this for you as well, he is not if he is a murderer. Time to purge the these mentally or emotionally damaged people from the force!!
1
Does anybody else like to compare the "Readers' Picks" to the "NYT Picks"?
A strong contrast usually.
A strong contrast usually.
17
A black officer shot the black criminal, and yet there is unambiguous video footage available that rioters were specifically targeting random white people for violence, and gleefully so. The mood among these rioters, at least, was one of fun and games, and racial hatred. The NY Times is obviously avoiding this angle to the story. I could have guessed without that video that there was rampant black racism in play by the scant, unbalanced coverage seen here. The double standard couldn't be more transparent. It's pretty sad how deeply embedded the NY Times is in partisan politics, and how it affects the professionalism and honesty of its reporting.
45
The lead-up and the build up is explained quite clearly; that it doesn't include your opinion of events doesn't mean this article is misleading.
3
The violent racism of Milwaukee blacks towards whites is certainly relevant to a "lead-up" that cites many social factors that are attributable to whites of that city leaving and avoiding the neighborhood where they are a target of that level of racial hatred. It is completely disingenuous to cite segregated neighborhoods abandoned by the majority without mentioning this factor.
10
Mr. Schmoe- I agree 100%. This event involves a black police officer shooting a suspected black perp. The ensuing riot burned down a black neighborhood. How this translates to a justification for violently attacking white people is totally illogical- maybe Black Lives Matter could explain.
11
Amazing that the commentary on a well researched piece outlining the historic roots of systemic racism in this city - which has led to the unrest it is experiencing is just so dismissive and utterly racist. These commentators are proving that the racism that just handicaps these communities is real, pervasive and ugly as sin.
7
Plentiful racism in Toronto to attend to, Rachel.
8
Yes, the city has race and poverty issues (as does neighboring Chicago and other big manufacturing centers), but a reality check: the disturbances took place in a three-block area within a 96-square-mile city. One would think, with all the media hyperbole, that the entire city is in flames. It is not.
To John B, the answer is not to abandon development downtown and adjacent areas, but to continue that growth AND also find ways to pull the disadvantaged neighborhoods up. It shouldn't be an either/or proposition.
To John B, the answer is not to abandon development downtown and adjacent areas, but to continue that growth AND also find ways to pull the disadvantaged neighborhoods up. It shouldn't be an either/or proposition.
7
The U.S. Census Bureau is expected to release the 2016 income and poverty report this week, but the 2015 report shows 31 million white Americans live below poverty while 10.8 million black Americans live below poverty.
Source: Page 12-13, Income and Poverty in the United States: 2014 Current Population Reports, U.S. Department of Commerce, Economics and Statistics Administration, U.S. Census Bureau. https://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/library/publications/2015/demo...
Source: Page 12-13, Income and Poverty in the United States: 2014 Current Population Reports, U.S. Department of Commerce, Economics and Statistics Administration, U.S. Census Bureau. https://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/library/publications/2015/demo...
5
A number of commenters see this article as an attempt to "excuse" or "justify" the violence. The resistance to looking at these issue is disheartening. If we try to understand root causes of violence, does that really mean we are saying it's okay? The truth is, when people are hopeless and frustrated and feel they have nothing to lose (and have been without hope for decades), they act in irrational ways that hurt everyone. To understand that does not mean the rest of us are condoning the violence, far from it. The best chance we have of preventing riots is to understand that basic inequality has left people feeling like they have nothing to lose and created decades of pent-up anger and futility - so that when any incident occurs the keg is lit. Obviously, the fire has to be put out first - but then the structural problems need to be addressed.
21
Does that include looking back at the reports a generation ago that generous welfare benefits was drawing a large influx of blacks to Milwaukee from Chicago and the South? Does it include giving an equal consideration to the possibility that grounding a community in a entitlement in turn generates personal irresponsibility and learned helplessness, the only answer to which is to stop helping? If we want to understand, we have to open our eyes to the full reality, not the just the template narrative that we know well, have applied often, and never seen work.
14
The root causes of Islamic terrorism are similar in many ways.
Shall we apply your "understanding" to the 9/11 hijackers as well?
Shall we apply your "understanding" to the 9/11 hijackers as well?
3
It does justify the violence, despite the legitimate grievances. Harming the innocent is unforgivable.
1
I wish the Times just had the guts to admit that all they care about is The Narrative.
35
Although I see all the points mentioned in the article, this is anything but balanced reporting.
26
I live in Wisconsin and I'm tired of hearing that we don't spend enough on education in these cities. Milwaukee has the 4th highest spending per pupil of the 50 largest cities in the U.S. paid for mostly by state aid. A friend of mine had two kids in Milwaukee Public schools and by second grade the kids would scream at the teacher and call her a whore or worse. They couldn't do anything about the disrespectful and disruptive kids because that would disrespect their culture. Everyone in the classroom suffered. No one in their right mind would want to teach in a system like that.
My friend moved to the suburbs that spends actually a little less per student and his kids got a great education. One just received her Phd. We can't fix these communities. These communities have to understand that they have to fix themselves. Those who do realize it usually move out.
Another friend of mine has been a Milwaukee cop for 24 years. He said even the black cops hate going into these neighborhoods. Milwaukee has a DA and Judges who believe in catch and release with no consequences starting in the juvenile justice system. The DA John Chisholm brags about how few kids he actually locks up. Now we see the results of this liberal agenda. The people in the community have primarily themselves to blame.
My friend moved to the suburbs that spends actually a little less per student and his kids got a great education. One just received her Phd. We can't fix these communities. These communities have to understand that they have to fix themselves. Those who do realize it usually move out.
Another friend of mine has been a Milwaukee cop for 24 years. He said even the black cops hate going into these neighborhoods. Milwaukee has a DA and Judges who believe in catch and release with no consequences starting in the juvenile justice system. The DA John Chisholm brags about how few kids he actually locks up. Now we see the results of this liberal agenda. The people in the community have primarily themselves to blame.
36
Very ignorant and skewed commentary. You neglect to mention that much of that spending can only be spent on charter and religious school vouchers, and those schools don't do much better than the public ones. And once you remove the money strictly earmarked for the charter schools, the spending per pupil in Milwaukee public schools is less than that of 24 other districts around the city.
6
Wrong. The last school year MPS had a budget of 965 million dollars. 598.1 million came from state taxpayers. 61 million dollars went to charter schools. 90 percent of the state aid was not spent on charter schools. The charter schools don't do much better, but they do better. So spending on charter schools is a good choice.
3
School spending in MPS has been going down under Gov. Walker, my friend. The Chapter 220 Program, which for decades has allowed and transported inner-city Milwaukee students to suburban schools, ends statewide this year. If your gripe about inefficient use of funds is correct, then we should see a miracle improvement in test scores in the coming years, right?
2
The Washington Post database of fatal police shootings shows Wisconsin police so far this year have shot and killed 10 whites, 5 blacks and 1 person whose race has not been determined. The numbers aren't genocidal.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/police-shootings-2016/?...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/police-shootings-2016/?...
29
In the Times' calculus, blacks are not independent moral agents. They are victims.
30
The NYT needs to publish audio clips from the Milwaukee riots just as they publish audio clips from Trump rallies. You are for balance reporting, right?
45
I think you're talking about Fox, which at least aims at "fair and balanced" reporting. The Times gave up that practice a long time ago. But they do do a heckuva writeup on conditions in the Thai fishing industry.
14
Milwaukee is a classic example of the failure of democratic liberal policies. The city has been run by democrats for decades. The results are similar to other big cities run by democrats, like Detroit. From your previous headline this weekend it sounded as if the man shot was unarmed. You could avoid stirring things up by stating the correct facts in the first paragraph and the headline. For example, an armed African American man was shot by an African American policeman. Would that be so hard to do?
29
Your argument fails because both Milwaukee and Detroit are in States run by Republicans. The Democrats who ran the cities were like the pawns in a game of chess. State law trumps city law, and federal law trumps state law. So while it is true liberal policies have failed to bring peace in race relations, and it is clear from recent events that race relations are even worse now than they were 20 years ago, cities do not exist in a vacuum, as you have argued, and you shouldn't blame liberals for trying to improve things, for at least they do try, whereas conservatives stand in opposition to everything positive they try to do.
5
American media highlights every single case of a black man being shot to overfit a narrative of racism. The NYT is complicit.
This was a clear case of an armed criminal, being shot by a cop. Not every incident like this is racism. In fact, a critical examination of the evidence shows that most cases of "racist police abuse" are either exaggerated, falsified, or relies on some assumption that the perp was targeted for his race because y'know, it happens all the time, right?
There is nothing heroic about activism. Even less victimhood. It's time American society learned this, and moved past its childish conception of compassion.
This was a clear case of an armed criminal, being shot by a cop. Not every incident like this is racism. In fact, a critical examination of the evidence shows that most cases of "racist police abuse" are either exaggerated, falsified, or relies on some assumption that the perp was targeted for his race because y'know, it happens all the time, right?
There is nothing heroic about activism. Even less victimhood. It's time American society learned this, and moved past its childish conception of compassion.
37
This is a local issue. Most Americans have moved past of the BLM movement and no longer care about it. They've ruined their brand by advocating their own violence or failing to denounce those that promote violence.
Obama could do himself a world of good by denouncing this group as well. There are certainly cops out there who are lousy at their job for many reasons beyond racist attitudes.
Obama could do himself a world of good by denouncing this group as well. There are certainly cops out there who are lousy at their job for many reasons beyond racist attitudes.
30
Read the book "Evicted" before you pass judgement here. Then read
http://www.jsonline.com/story/news/local/milwaukee/2016/08/14/police-ide...
to get the sad fact that there are too many guns on the streets in Milwaukee.
http://www.jsonline.com/story/news/local/milwaukee/2016/08/14/police-ide...
to get the sad fact that there are too many guns on the streets in Milwaukee.
3
Looting/ burning will generate yet another spike in gun sales.
20
One interesting aspect of this is where the gun of the dead man was stolen from and how much ammunition was there. It isn't just the devil you know.
"The suspect was carrying a handgun taken in a March burglary in Waukesha. The owner reported that 500 rounds of ammunition also were stolen."
http://www.jsonline.com/story/news/crime/2016/08/13/report-1-dead-office...
"The suspect was carrying a handgun taken in a March burglary in Waukesha. The owner reported that 500 rounds of ammunition also were stolen."
http://www.jsonline.com/story/news/crime/2016/08/13/report-1-dead-office...
7
Here's the real story in a few words.
Criminal attempts to elude police; points semi-automatic handgun at office and when ordered to drop weapon, refuses to do so; officer shoots and criminal is now dead... P.S. Criminal was African-American and so is officer. Period.
Criminal attempts to elude police; points semi-automatic handgun at office and when ordered to drop weapon, refuses to do so; officer shoots and criminal is now dead... P.S. Criminal was African-American and so is officer. Period.
34
Sorry, at some point you really have to wonder about the role models that the editors and the BLM apologists hold up as victims of police brutality and bias against black males. This guy who was shot was armed and had a really long criminal record. He was more of a thug than Michael Brown.
Ok, let's get by that point.
Let's focus on the BLM activists and the protestors out last night. You might consider googling some of the videos taken by some of the protesters. The ones where the "protesters" are targeting white people driving by in their cars. You know the videos where the "protesters" are chanting to beat the whites driving by Sherman Park.
Haven't we seen this movie before? Maybe the name Reginald Denny comes to mind?
Oh, one last point matters to some extent.
The cop who shot the thug in self defense was black.
Not that facts of any kind matter to those who are determined to push their agenda on what they have determined to be police brutality.
Well, when the burned out buildings never get rebuilt, and the store owners decide that enough is enough and when the police decide that they're not going into the same neighborhoods, and the thugs have regained complete control over the area, then BLM and its apologists can come in and fix things.
BLM only matters if BLM holds itself and those they inspire to matter.
Ok, let's get by that point.
Let's focus on the BLM activists and the protestors out last night. You might consider googling some of the videos taken by some of the protesters. The ones where the "protesters" are targeting white people driving by in their cars. You know the videos where the "protesters" are chanting to beat the whites driving by Sherman Park.
Haven't we seen this movie before? Maybe the name Reginald Denny comes to mind?
Oh, one last point matters to some extent.
The cop who shot the thug in self defense was black.
Not that facts of any kind matter to those who are determined to push their agenda on what they have determined to be police brutality.
Well, when the burned out buildings never get rebuilt, and the store owners decide that enough is enough and when the police decide that they're not going into the same neighborhoods, and the thugs have regained complete control over the area, then BLM and its apologists can come in and fix things.
BLM only matters if BLM holds itself and those they inspire to matter.
34
Just asking questions here:
Who perpetrates the concept that inner city poor African Americans have no recourse to express themselves but through rioting? Anyone remember,"Irish need not apply?" or "Dago go home?" or the whole rash of Polish jokes? There are many more ethnic slurs thrown at all groups who came to this country .
What happens to the kids in schools, who really start out with the same bell curve of intelligence as anywhere else, but fail miserably in school? The immigrants from around the world came here willing to work to speak English and do well in school, despite the prejudice against them.
How does one stop acting like a victim when everywhere one turns the message is you are a victim of prejudice? Again the immigrants who came here with out anything but a sponsor and the dream to make a success worked to become good American citizens. They were victims of "systemic prejudice"
Perhaps the saying attributed to Henry Ford is applicable here: If you believe you can or believe you can't, you are right.
Who perpetrates the concept that inner city poor African Americans have no recourse to express themselves but through rioting? Anyone remember,"Irish need not apply?" or "Dago go home?" or the whole rash of Polish jokes? There are many more ethnic slurs thrown at all groups who came to this country .
What happens to the kids in schools, who really start out with the same bell curve of intelligence as anywhere else, but fail miserably in school? The immigrants from around the world came here willing to work to speak English and do well in school, despite the prejudice against them.
How does one stop acting like a victim when everywhere one turns the message is you are a victim of prejudice? Again the immigrants who came here with out anything but a sponsor and the dream to make a success worked to become good American citizens. They were victims of "systemic prejudice"
Perhaps the saying attributed to Henry Ford is applicable here: If you believe you can or believe you can't, you are right.
38
Someone asked in my office: Since the looted and burned BP was owned by Muslims, can those who set it on fire be charged with religious hate crimes?
33
The amount of mental gymnastics necessary to churn out this article is incredible. Let's start with "Community torches own neighborhood after officer shoots armed suspect after suspect refuses to drop weapon."
Stop justifying this behavior or wringing your hands. Face facts -- the man's death was entirely his own fault and this community is reacting completely inappropriately based on inflammatory rhetoric from special interest groups.
Stop justifying this behavior or wringing your hands. Face facts -- the man's death was entirely his own fault and this community is reacting completely inappropriately based on inflammatory rhetoric from special interest groups.
42
@ 12:00 the number one comment made by BenG shows why the presidential race for 2016 is such a sham.
Racism in America is so prevalent that the symptoms are hardly ever seen or acknowledged.
Racism in America is so prevalent that the symptoms are hardly ever seen or acknowledged.
4
Please, please do not continue to frame black racial violence within a white reference point. White people have been blamed for centuries for all black problems. Rather, the issue for discussion is whether the Hispanic or Asian population will be as benevolent a caretaker of blacks as whites have been? Why is it that Hispanics and Asians refuse to deal with the restive black population? could it be because they have no historic legacy of guilt, pas black oppression? As Whites continue to withdraw from the societal mayhem, expect to see a very different societal landscape. Who will be left for extortion, shakedown..?
16
"Rather, the issue for discussion is whether the Hispanic or Asian population will be as benevolent a caretaker of blacks as whites have been?"
Great question. And the answer? Not likely...
Great question. And the answer? Not likely...
14
"White people have been blamed for centuries for all black problems...." Centuries, eh? Wait, what was happening a century ago? Let me think....
1
Despite the inequity and injustice that pervades the city, for which I abhor, this case in my opinion doesn't line up with the recent cases involving the shooting of unarmed black men. If an armed man in the purview of a police officer is told to drop his weapon, then it seems (if the facts are confirmed) obvious that the officer was within his power to use lawful force. I'm baffled as to why the residents are resorting to violence considering the circumstances surrounding this shooting.
14
This article is attempting to provide context for recent events, which is a thing good journalism does. Our resident right-wing commentariat cannot tell the difference between providing useful context and justifying riots.
I will give what context I can. I did not grow up in greater Milwaukee, but I lived there. I've been a white person for a good long while now and I've been around plenty of racism - but Milwaukee still shocked me. I'm not talking about 'occasional working-class offensive joke racism' or 'barely coded segregationist language racism' or even 'pseudo-scientific racism.' I'm talking straight-up Jim Crow era South racism. The Milwaukee suburbs are full of the most racist people I've ever met, by an Alabama mile. A fairly surprising number of them earned a tidy income as slumlords in Milwaukee proper too. They were disgustingly unethical landlords, and the way they spoke about their tenants would make you sick. Milwaukee's very popular conservative talk radio also makes Rush Limbaugh look like David Brooks.
This is not an argument about the circumstances of this particular shooting - though that's definitely the argument most here will prefer to have. Nor it is an argument about what kind of protest is or is not justified. It's a piece of context -- just on the off chance anyone here is interested in understanding things better, instead of riding their 'personal responsibility/black pathology' hobby horse off into the sunset.
I will give what context I can. I did not grow up in greater Milwaukee, but I lived there. I've been a white person for a good long while now and I've been around plenty of racism - but Milwaukee still shocked me. I'm not talking about 'occasional working-class offensive joke racism' or 'barely coded segregationist language racism' or even 'pseudo-scientific racism.' I'm talking straight-up Jim Crow era South racism. The Milwaukee suburbs are full of the most racist people I've ever met, by an Alabama mile. A fairly surprising number of them earned a tidy income as slumlords in Milwaukee proper too. They were disgustingly unethical landlords, and the way they spoke about their tenants would make you sick. Milwaukee's very popular conservative talk radio also makes Rush Limbaugh look like David Brooks.
This is not an argument about the circumstances of this particular shooting - though that's definitely the argument most here will prefer to have. Nor it is an argument about what kind of protest is or is not justified. It's a piece of context -- just on the off chance anyone here is interested in understanding things better, instead of riding their 'personal responsibility/black pathology' hobby horse off into the sunset.
11
I lived in Milwaukee from 1999 to 2004. Having lived there and knowing the history of systemic racism against blacks, it's surprising this didn't happen sooner.
I have a lot of love for Brew Town and there's plenty good to say about it, but the racial relations between whites and blacks isn't one of them. I grew up in Chicago and have lived in several different U.S. cities. I've never seen racism like I saw in Milwaukee. The distrust and animosity runs both ways, too, and involves everyday Milwaukeeans. I remember the first time I walked on the North Side, a black man kicked a bag of garbage at me and called me a cracker. Walking through downtown a few years later with my girlfriend I was punched in the stomach and called a "p*ssy white boy." One Summerfest on Milwaukee's lakefront - perhaps 2002ish - several white people, including mothers with their children and several of my friends, were attacked by black teenagers who ran through the fest punching people. This happened again in 2011 at the Wisconsin State Fair. On the flip side, I remember being at a house party and drunk white guys on a patio yelling racist slurs at blacks on the street.
Milwaukee has a lot of healing to do.
I have a lot of love for Brew Town and there's plenty good to say about it, but the racial relations between whites and blacks isn't one of them. I grew up in Chicago and have lived in several different U.S. cities. I've never seen racism like I saw in Milwaukee. The distrust and animosity runs both ways, too, and involves everyday Milwaukeeans. I remember the first time I walked on the North Side, a black man kicked a bag of garbage at me and called me a cracker. Walking through downtown a few years later with my girlfriend I was punched in the stomach and called a "p*ssy white boy." One Summerfest on Milwaukee's lakefront - perhaps 2002ish - several white people, including mothers with their children and several of my friends, were attacked by black teenagers who ran through the fest punching people. This happened again in 2011 at the Wisconsin State Fair. On the flip side, I remember being at a house party and drunk white guys on a patio yelling racist slurs at blacks on the street.
Milwaukee has a lot of healing to do.
19
The comments to this article illustrate the frustration of the readers with the New York Times. This is not reporting or journalism. I do not understand how an article like this one gets past the editors. Readers want the facts presented to them in an intelligent manner. I know it is summertime, and I suspect this article was written by a high school freshman summer intern. Please, New York Times, stop insulting your readers and hire some competent people.
39
They've hired exactly who they want...other liberals whom know nothing about journalism but help spew the Democratic nonsense hiding behind a 'credible' news source.
19
In other words, only publish things you agree with and conform to your pre-conceived view of the world?
7
For some context here, lets remember that five people were killed in the neighborhoods of Milwaukee of Friday night. That's not on the police. There are elements in the city that are prospering off of this violence and have been for years. Its time to put the finger on where the trouble is and its not Mayor Barrett, or the police.
34
Tough competition, but this may be the NYT's most ridiculous police shooting article ever. It's like this publication has some kind of neuro-journalism disorder that prevents them from ever laying any blame on black people.
You should change your name to Black Lives Times.
You should change your name to Black Lives Times.
45
Don't blame black folks. This is the culture of the economically privileged pseudo-left. Talk about anything but class. Anything.
17
Don't falsely accuse me of blaming black folks. I'm not.
I'm blaming the media.
I'm blaming the media.
8
Sorry, Jonathan. No disrespect intended. I'm more or less in agreement with you.
4
And then when legit businesses pick up and leave after being burned down the blacks can't understand why things in their neighborhoods are in perpetual decay. Stop hurting yourselves for starters.
35
Yet another example of the destruction visited on African-Americans in cities run by Democrats. Maybe one day they will stop doing what they are doing and actually get to working on the problem.
19
“Now, we praise a man who feels anger on the right grounds and against the right persons, and also in the right manner and at the right moment and for the right length of time.… The defect, on the other hand, call it a sort of Lack of Spirit or what not, is blamed; since those who do not get angry at things at which it is right to be angry are considered foolish, and so are those who do not get angry in the right manner, at the right time, and with the right people. It is thought that they do not feel or resent an injury, and that if a man is never angry, he will not stand up for himself; and it is considered servile to put up with an insult to oneself or suffer one’s friends to be insulted.… [W]hen a man retaliates, there is an end of the matter: the pain of resentment is replaced by the pleasure of obtaining redress, and so his anger ceases. But if they do not retaliate, men continue to labor under a sense of resentment—for as their anger is concealed, no one else tries to placate them either, and it takes a long time to digest one’s wrath within one.” Thus may we draw upon Aristotle to explain the otherwise curious shortcoming of the American urban model, whereby unless the populace rise up, a grievance may not even be so acknowledged by the guardians of the city.
(Stay in school, kids!)
(Stay in school, kids!)
2
Interestingly, (Some) Black Lives Matters (Sometimes, But Only if White People Are Involved) and so-called progressives (apologists) who rationalize the violence in Milwaukee ultimately are identical to Donald Trump and his most rabid supporters. The facts of any situation do not matter to these people. A "bigger" idea or context (immigration and of Muslims for Trump; over-aggressive policing for BLM and progressives) makes the facts of any situation irrelevant to the supporters of the respective group[s and justifies mob violence. Trump and BLM supporters assert righteous justification and claim to be morally unimpeachable, free from any test of evidence or logic - challenges, which in any case, are only proof of the sins of their opponents. This malignant pathological narcissism poses the greatest obstacle to any meaningful, pragmatic and truthful attempts to address national issues.
7
Democrat mayors have ruled Milwaukee for the past 70 years.
No Republican has been mayor since 1890s.
Maybe it's time for one.
No Republican has been mayor since 1890s.
Maybe it's time for one.
28
Before you can have a Republican mayor of Milwaukee, you have to have an electorate willing to vote for a Republican first. Given that Milwaukee has been heavily Democratic since it was first industrialized--this is the only city to elect three Socialist mayors--and given that suburban Republicans have routinely demonized Milwaukee, you've got quite a search ahead of you.
5
In many high crime communities, more than 50% of males are felons.
Therefore, the police are disliked by many in these communities.
Therefore, the police are disliked by many in these communities.
34
Here's what it's like in Milwaukee, from the Milwaukee Sentinel:
In 2014, 583 people survived gunshot wounds. 38% refused to cooperate with police.
http://www.jsonline.com/news/crime/bills-add-up-when-someone-is-shot-and...
In 2014, 583 people survived gunshot wounds. 38% refused to cooperate with police.
http://www.jsonline.com/news/crime/bills-add-up-when-someone-is-shot-and...
20
Listening to protesters and civil rights "leaders" over the weekend, it's clear that every problem of the Black community is a function of institutionalized racism. Career criminal with a gun gets killed police, racism. Destroy businesses by protesters, It's ok, it's simply a reaction to racism. Attack people, throw rocks targeted against police and Caucasians, response to racism. I'm tired of having every problem, every bad act, every bad person excused of bad behaviors because the word racism is uttered.
54
'Decades in the making'? Democrats and Socialists have run Milwaukee since 1908. How has their leadership contributed to the problem and what could they have done differently? There is no intellectually honest way to blame whites, Republicans or anyone who moved away from declining economic conditions. Look in the mirror.
39
Black criminal points gun at black cop. Black people then attack whites driving through the neighborhood. Makes total sense.
62
Inevitably, for many whites, the understanding of this situation will start five minutes before the fatal shooting, and end after the stores are set afire. Conveniently forgetting the decades of police abuse that preceded it, and the years of abuse to come.
Whenever your system is broken, always take a narrow time focus on events. Start from the moment that's most agreeable to your position, and end on the moment where something bad has happened.
Learn from Netanyahu, who always seems to suggest that everything was great until some particular day when the bad Palestinians did this terrible thing.
ALWAYS speak as if the violence you don't like takes place in a vacuum. And insist that the vacuum is solely of your opponents making.
"Everything was great until these trouble makers, and that's all they do, started this terrible thing!"
If your going to lie, lie like a professional, right?
Whenever your system is broken, always take a narrow time focus on events. Start from the moment that's most agreeable to your position, and end on the moment where something bad has happened.
Learn from Netanyahu, who always seems to suggest that everything was great until some particular day when the bad Palestinians did this terrible thing.
ALWAYS speak as if the violence you don't like takes place in a vacuum. And insist that the vacuum is solely of your opponents making.
"Everything was great until these trouble makers, and that's all they do, started this terrible thing!"
If your going to lie, lie like a professional, right?
10
No Chicago Guy,
As a Asian person my sympathies ends when crimes are committed. Any reasonable and law abiding citizen should as well.
As a Asian person my sympathies ends when crimes are committed. Any reasonable and law abiding citizen should as well.
19
Chicago Guy, quite incorrect assumption on your part. The problem is decades in making. It dates back to the time when socialists/democrats starting running inner cities and ruled both houses of congress. Their well intentioned policies destroyed the black family, which then destroyed culture, and safe environement for raising kids. At the same time socialist takeover of the university humanities education crippled critical thinking and morality, and replaced logic with identity affirming feel good arguments. The results of those decades of wrong policies are now clear: A criminal points a stolen gun at the cop, and is shot dead. In protest, locals burn their own neighborhood. Happy now?
19
Or you could deal with reality as opposed to century old grievances. Nothing takes place in vacuum but the present isn't a vacuum.
10
It no longer matters why, it is reason the military will never govern. People will fight a perceived threat to them.
Arm the police with military weapons and guess what happens!!
Arm the police with military weapons and guess what happens!!
1
th cop had a pistol
in this case, he was outgunned
21
There is a general complaint that businesses do not want to locate in 'black' communities because of the perception turned reality that those areas are not safe for owners and employees.
In this context, it is foolish to burn down a gas station or a pizza store or a drug store that 'dares' to operate in those neighborhoods.
The chances are, the owner of that gas station was a black person, whose insurance premiums will be generally high for that zip code already and who will not likely have proper insurance in place to cover the incident.
If people do not have respect for their communities, then they do not deserve to live in them.
In this context, it is foolish to burn down a gas station or a pizza store or a drug store that 'dares' to operate in those neighborhoods.
The chances are, the owner of that gas station was a black person, whose insurance premiums will be generally high for that zip code already and who will not likely have proper insurance in place to cover the incident.
If people do not have respect for their communities, then they do not deserve to live in them.
53
Actually I believe he's Indian/SE Asian according to local reports.
5
Would they deserve to live in another community? What is the primary communal value defining that community as distinct from others is the lack of respect...a community of the disrespectful. In that case one might argue that they have created exactly the hell hole that they deserve to live in, and that ones concerns ought to be directed towards those few individuals who find themselves there not by choice who do not share that value and deserve something better.
2
Can this ALL be blamed on racism? No.
There have and will always be '-isms' and '-ists' in each and every society; knowing how to best mitigate those so each is but a back burner annoyance is the goal.
Regarding the police-involved shootings, such as this case where the individual was armed but fleeing, in that split-second judgment call, was the officer to aim for his leg?
Should the police have just let the two run off after being pulled over and not given it a second thought in the incident last Saturday afternoon? Mr. Smith fled the vehicle holding a gun; no reason for a LEO to raise an eyebrow?
"...The police said two uniformed officers stopped two people in a car around 3:30 p.m. Saturday. The police did not provide details on why the car was stopped beyond describing it as raising suspicion.
Both occupants immediately ran from the car. During the pursuit, an officer ordered Mr. Smith to drop his gun and fired when he did not, striking Mr. Smith in the chest and an arm, Mr. Barrett said Sunday morning. The gun held 23 rounds, he said. Mr. Smith died at the scene..."
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/15/us/milwaukee-shaken-by-eruption-of-vio...
Before the reflexive knee-jerk reaction is allowed to permeate the discussion, realize the forest feels the problem but each tree needs specific care.
There have and will always be '-isms' and '-ists' in each and every society; knowing how to best mitigate those so each is but a back burner annoyance is the goal.
Regarding the police-involved shootings, such as this case where the individual was armed but fleeing, in that split-second judgment call, was the officer to aim for his leg?
Should the police have just let the two run off after being pulled over and not given it a second thought in the incident last Saturday afternoon? Mr. Smith fled the vehicle holding a gun; no reason for a LEO to raise an eyebrow?
"...The police said two uniformed officers stopped two people in a car around 3:30 p.m. Saturday. The police did not provide details on why the car was stopped beyond describing it as raising suspicion.
Both occupants immediately ran from the car. During the pursuit, an officer ordered Mr. Smith to drop his gun and fired when he did not, striking Mr. Smith in the chest and an arm, Mr. Barrett said Sunday morning. The gun held 23 rounds, he said. Mr. Smith died at the scene..."
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/15/us/milwaukee-shaken-by-eruption-of-vio...
Before the reflexive knee-jerk reaction is allowed to permeate the discussion, realize the forest feels the problem but each tree needs specific care.
9
a black armed assailant turned toward a black officer and th officer shot , and there is video from a copcam corroborating this
if thats an accurate depiction of th event, th officer seems justifuied
there are times to riot and times to not riot
this seems to be a time to not riot
33
Another city run into the ground by its democrat leaders.
29
Police will keep murdering Black citizens as long as they are able to do it with impunity. It's the court system that has failed, grotesquely & horribly.
3
Read my lips: the man was armed with a semi-automatic weapon and did not put the gun down in response to a lawful order.
He was a danger to community and cop. He was not murdered. He was justifiably shot--as justifiably as he would have been had he been white and the cop has been white or black or Asian or Hispanic.
The court system did fail here, as you say. But not for the reasons you believe. It failed because this man should have been in prison, not on the streets putting citizens at risk. He was a violent criminal, with an illegal stolen gun, implicated in a prior shooting and assaults. This is not some naïf locked up on a marijuana charge.
There is plenty of abuse in our system of justice by all concerned-police, attorneys, judges, perpetrators, victims. And there is plenty that works right. Failure to distinguish helps no one, least of all citizens in high crime neighborhoods.
He was a danger to community and cop. He was not murdered. He was justifiably shot--as justifiably as he would have been had he been white and the cop has been white or black or Asian or Hispanic.
The court system did fail here, as you say. But not for the reasons you believe. It failed because this man should have been in prison, not on the streets putting citizens at risk. He was a violent criminal, with an illegal stolen gun, implicated in a prior shooting and assaults. This is not some naïf locked up on a marijuana charge.
There is plenty of abuse in our system of justice by all concerned-police, attorneys, judges, perpetrators, victims. And there is plenty that works right. Failure to distinguish helps no one, least of all citizens in high crime neighborhoods.
9
Talk about low expectations. We should excuse the people wantonly rioting, looting, burning down buildings after a police officer in mortal danger shoots a heavily armed criminal. It isn't their fault they can't control themselves or respect their neighbors - they're just helpless victims.
54
This article seems to have lit a fire under the butts of talk radio fans. With their usual blame the poor rhetoric they dismiss a beautiful community with lot's of wonderful people who are suffering from terrible poverty that will not be addressed by a tea party governor who avoids the city completely. Speak truth to power, don't lie to the weak. There is real pain and suffering here and if the fact some of it seems self-inflicted allows you to continue villainizing the poor maybe you can do us all favor and stay with Fox News.
8
Oh. yes. Anyone that disagrees is a 'talk radio fan'. I think the media calls that a dog-whistle. But that's ok when it's a leftist dog-whistle.
45
I detest the arrogance of the phrase "speak truth to power". As if one side has a corner on what is truth.
2
After living in United kingdom for all my life. I decided to move to Chicago in 1997. After spending three years in Chicago, I decided to move back to UK. The main reason? It was apparent that USA was a police state and I could not live there. Despite of all the song and dance about democracy and land of freedom. I could not see the freedom we enjoy in United Kingdom.
For the people in USA, come out of the shell you live in and come and see the freedom we enjoy in UK.
For the people in USA, come out of the shell you live in and come and see the freedom we enjoy in UK.
3
I'm so sorry to hear about the killing of the Premiere League football player Dalian Atkinson today in London. A Black man, he died after police came to his home and used a taser gun on him. Police violence against persons of African descent is not only a U.S. problem, regardless of how much "freedom you enjoy in UK."
9
I was surprised to see the majority of the comments focusing only on the rioting in the aftermath of the police shooting. To me the article was about the history of discrimination that laid the ground for a reaction like this. You are completely missing the boat it you think the reaction was because of this one incident.
9
These are people who weren't even born when Dr. King died.
10
Democrat mayors for 70 years.
I thought Dems HELP Blacks.
Why do Blacks continue to support Dems under these awful conditions?
I thought Dems HELP Blacks.
Why do Blacks continue to support Dems under these awful conditions?
14
If you want an honest answer it is because a lot of Republican politicians come across as racists who don't really care about any of the issues that affect the Black community.
Thank you President Obama. Thank you Black Lives Matter. Thank you DOJ and FBI. You have made our country a safer and better place to live. Keep up the good work.
42
"America, America, God shed shed his grace on thee.
And crown thy good with brotherhood
From sea to shining sea."
If they say so.
And crown thy good with brotherhood
From sea to shining sea."
If they say so.
America, America, God mend thine every flaw,
Preserve thy Soul
In Self-Control,
Thy Liberty in Law.
Preserve thy Soul
In Self-Control,
Thy Liberty in Law.
11
Because the police officer who pulled the trigger is black, all of the subsequent unrest is unjustified, as if the final judgment on the dead man is above reproach because he was killed by a fellow black person. On the other hand, if the police officer had been white, then all this rioting is justified, as if all white people are bent on subjugating black people.
This mentality is another text-book definition of racism, isn't it?
This mentality is another text-book definition of racism, isn't it?
32
Riot first, ask questions later. Hurl bricks because a black cop shot an armed black thug. Burn down your own neighborhood. Then complain because nobody wants to start a business where you live. Feel aggrieved instead of making better choices. Vote for Hillary.
55
There are so many inaccuracies and unfounded assumptions in this article that I am amazed. The only reason I can see that they are here is to give cover to the Black community in Milwaukee for what has happened (justifying violence because of historic wrongs). So lets take a stroll through the article. In the third paragraph it claims that Milwaukee has some of the highest incarceration rates and unemployment rates for Blacks. To put it another way Blacks commit so many crimes that they are in jail in unbelievable numbers. What does unemployment have to do with rioting? There are lots of areas in the country with high unemployment and no riots. Then we have a whole section on segregation without any reference on how this causes rioting. They reach back to the 1960s for all this nonsense. They do note that in 2014 Blacks got 4% for the loans but were 16% of the population. Typical wrong use of statistics. First how many of the Black people could qualify for a loan? How many want a loan? As far as segregation is concerned there are no legal barriers to Blacks moving to other neighborhoods so a true test is the rise of black residents in those area or in the suburbs. Then we have the segregated schools because most Blacks go to schools that are 90% or more non-White. Firstly an integrated school is not defined by the presence of magic White people. So a school with Asian and Latinos would be integrated.
(End of Part 1)
(End of Part 1)
37
Rioters are criminals not "protesters".
54
I went to school at UW - Milwaukee. It is a rough town and the cops are hard on everyone, black and white. When you cross I-94 from the east side, it goes from all white to all black. The Milwaukee police department is crooked as they come and that's the perspective of a white middle class white person. Super glad I'm out of there.
9
If the cop and the victim are both black, how is it a racist shooting? How is a fleeing man shot in the chest? What is the point of destroying neighborhood businesses in a post-shooting violent spree? So many questions.
34
Time for Obama to step up and tell the black activists to STOP this madness. The person shot and killed was a gun-wielding criminal who happened to be black.
Blacks are not doing themselves a favor by acting in this way.
Blacks are not doing themselves a favor by acting in this way.
35
Milwaukee Public Schools spent $14,244 per student in 2011 and I'm sure it's significantly up from there. That's the fourth highest per-pupil spending in the nation's largest metropolitan school districts (http://archive.jsonline.com/news/education/mps-wisconsin-rank-high-in-pe.... Moreover, Milwaukee has been run by Democrats since 1908. With such long term progressive rule and bountiful public spending, why hasn't Milwaukee become the paradise that similarly situated Detroit, Chicago, Baltimore, DC, etc. represent? Oh, those Democrat run cities are disasters, too?? You mean gun control and high levels of spending on things like schools don't necessarily produce well educated and contented populations? Hmm. That's not what we're promised every four years.
37
The cities higher on the list have much higher costs of living so Milwaukee actually effectively spends the most per student funded mostly by Republican leaning taxpayers in the rest of the state. It is us "Racist" suburbanites who are paying above average state tax rates throwing this money into this cesspool. if more money on education was the answer Milwaukee Public schools would have the best results of any big city in the nation. And yet Milwaukee keeps electing the same kind of leader over and over. When John Norquist was mayor he was even worse than Tom Barret the current liberal in charge.
5
Don't like the fact that an armed black suspect was shot and killed by a black Milwaukee police officer? Torch some cars and businesses, destroy your own neighborhood, and shout racism without a shred of evidence to validate your actions. Makes perfect sense to Black Lives matter.
46
"Makes perfect sense to Black Lives matter."
And to the Timesiana residents...
And to the Timesiana residents...
4
The problems here are twofold: one is that of the widespread discrimination against blacks and the tendency to falsely assume that blacks are more dangerous than their counterparts in other races without regarding and evaluating them each as individuals.
The other problem is that some American police, empowered with such lethal weapons as guns, abuse their power over the regular citizen as if their job is not to protect the lives and properties of those under their jurisdiction, but to instead threaten anyone into submission with their guns or take lives away simply because their own lives appear to be threatened.
Being an officer is not supposed to be easy, but, when a policeman utilizes his gun, the law can do nothing prevent tragedies until after the fact.
The other problem is that some American police, empowered with such lethal weapons as guns, abuse their power over the regular citizen as if their job is not to protect the lives and properties of those under their jurisdiction, but to instead threaten anyone into submission with their guns or take lives away simply because their own lives appear to be threatened.
Being an officer is not supposed to be easy, but, when a policeman utilizes his gun, the law can do nothing prevent tragedies until after the fact.
This could all be true. But how is that relevant to the event in Milwaukee? The officer did not assume the man was dangerous. He did not just "appear" to threaten others' lives. He WAS dangerous--with a stolen semi-automatic weapon. The officer was not over-armed. He was not in riot gear. He did not have a long gun. He had only his usual side arm. The officer utilized his weapon but how was that to be prevented if the shooter refused a lawful order to drop the gun instead pointing it at the officer and endanger others?
Then again, there might have been a way to "prevent this tragedy" as you put it. The officer could have not shot, allow himself to be shot instead. He could have been the deceased rather than the survivor. Would that not have been a tragedy? Do tragedies only encompass certain scenarios and not others? A cop gunned down is all in the day's work but an armed threatening citizen justifiably shot to protect others is somehow a travesty.
Officers bleed red. Civilians bleed red. Civilians commit crimes. Officers commit crimes. Failure to distinguish leads only to further tragedy and injustice.
Then again, there might have been a way to "prevent this tragedy" as you put it. The officer could have not shot, allow himself to be shot instead. He could have been the deceased rather than the survivor. Would that not have been a tragedy? Do tragedies only encompass certain scenarios and not others? A cop gunned down is all in the day's work but an armed threatening citizen justifiably shot to protect others is somehow a travesty.
Officers bleed red. Civilians bleed red. Civilians commit crimes. Officers commit crimes. Failure to distinguish leads only to further tragedy and injustice.
2
It's interesting to read this article compared with those in Milwaukee's own newspaper. As usual, the Times only frames it as bad things happening to black people, rather than black people playing some role in the situation. The Journal-Sentinel includes numerous quotes from responsible, hard-working black residents who are disgusted by the rioting. It also cites a local pastor who discusses an epidemic of black grandparents who are only in their 20s & 30s! Where are these strong black voices in the Times? It's disheartening to see people painted as victims over and over again, playing no part in their own circumstances.
64
So, your sunrise is that the local paper doesn't have particular intent, but the Times does?
I'm disappointed by rioting, I always am, but I don't look at people, black and poor people, who don't manage their lives very well, in the same area, and in many areas of the country as a coincidence. I don't think it's an indication of some racial inability either, which is the premise of your comment. There is this thing called racism.
There has been an intent to leave black people on the outside looking. It wasn't without consequences. Things got so far out of kilter for black communities, by design, that it's nearly impossible to correct. Blame is not the name of this game. We have to fix these communities and undo decades of intentional damage, before it's too late for society' sake. This is not a black problem.
I'm disappointed by rioting, I always am, but I don't look at people, black and poor people, who don't manage their lives very well, in the same area, and in many areas of the country as a coincidence. I don't think it's an indication of some racial inability either, which is the premise of your comment. There is this thing called racism.
There has been an intent to leave black people on the outside looking. It wasn't without consequences. Things got so far out of kilter for black communities, by design, that it's nearly impossible to correct. Blame is not the name of this game. We have to fix these communities and undo decades of intentional damage, before it's too late for society' sake. This is not a black problem.
2
Please tell me what those outside of the black community are supposed to do about black people becoming grandparents in their 20s & 30s? I wouldn't honestly like to know.
I fully agree that racism exists and has caused numerous problems but it simply cannot be blamed for EVERYTHING.
I fully agree that racism exists and has caused numerous problems but it simply cannot be blamed for EVERYTHING.
20
So racism is to blame for 30 year old grandparents? Racism is to blame for an armed thug confronting cop with a pointed stolen gun and getting shot in the chest as a result. And racism is to blame for locals burning down their own community in protest. You seem to suggest that black people are less than other homo sapians and can't solve their own problems without outside intervention.
25
Facts of the shooting are few. A police officer, an African American, shot an armed suspect. The city in which this occurs explodes into protest over racial injustice and police brutality. Obviously, the protestors could not care less whether the police officer acted as anyone of them would under the circumstances, he's a cop and he shot one of them. They protest about their outrage over half a century of discrimination and an economy which prevents them from improving their circumstances and they place the blame on racial injustice from systematic racism.
The officer was African American which means that the issues involved are not the simple consequences of white supremacists attempting to make all African Americans into a servile class, no matter what the history has been. Racial discrimination is crucial but is it the lingering effects of racism that the poor economy has prevented from being remedied or is it a continued effort of the society of Milwaukee to oppress people on account of their race? Is the disproportional violence and crime a result of excessive policing and prosecutions or is it due the too many people living in distress and resorting to crime and drug abuse as a result? When police brutalize suspects is it because they hate them because of their race or because they are fed up with criminals and want to take some street justice, or can it be either?
We have never addressed racism and racial injustice with open hearts and so never forgiven each other.
The officer was African American which means that the issues involved are not the simple consequences of white supremacists attempting to make all African Americans into a servile class, no matter what the history has been. Racial discrimination is crucial but is it the lingering effects of racism that the poor economy has prevented from being remedied or is it a continued effort of the society of Milwaukee to oppress people on account of their race? Is the disproportional violence and crime a result of excessive policing and prosecutions or is it due the too many people living in distress and resorting to crime and drug abuse as a result? When police brutalize suspects is it because they hate them because of their race or because they are fed up with criminals and want to take some street justice, or can it be either?
We have never addressed racism and racial injustice with open hearts and so never forgiven each other.
12
Facts of the shooting are well known and there is video to support them.
7
Yes crime is a problem... the doing of it, but also the definition of it. In neighborhoods where most other forms of economic activity are unavailable or unavailing, crime is just the residual go-to ultimate laissez faire capitalism. Discriminated against for being black, broke, uneducated and ex-convicted, what is a healthy man to do? Where can he go to sleep and eat? In America if you want to eat, unless you were born rich like Trump, you must work. BUT nobody promises you a job to do. So great, let's send all our jobs to China so Walmart can sell (even) cheap(er) plastic lawn chairs... to those who still have jobs and incomes with which to buy stuff. Jobs in places like Milwaukee were looted by politicians of both parties to send to China. In return they (we) got lower price inflation, so that wage stagnation at home wouldn't bite quite so hard. Here's a question for readers of the august New York Times: Do you think that the workers in those Chinese lawn chair factories are any better educated than the inhabitants of Milwaukee's inner city? So then, how came those jobs to flow to China? We need to get our jobs back. Only then can or will Milwaukee's problems be resolved. Yes, the problem is crime, the crime of looting America's jobs.
4
“Until the philosophy which holds one race superior and another inferior is finally and permanently discredited and abandoned, everywhere is war ...
...and until there are no longer first-class and second-class citizens of any nation, until the color of a man's skin is of no more significance than the color of his eyes.
...and until the basic human rights are equally guaranteed to all without regard to race, there is war.
...and until that day, the dream of lasting peace, world citizenship, rule of international morality, will remain but a fleeting illusion to be pursued, but never attained... now everywhere is war.”
Popularized by Bob Marley in the song "War”
― Haile Selassie I
America is way overdue for Truth and Reconciliation --just my opinion.
People who actually have a choice about where they live will hopefully and compassionately understand the stark crushing reality of not having that choice.
There's no shame in poverty; the shame belongs to those of us who benefit from America's great wealth---without sharing more.
...and until there are no longer first-class and second-class citizens of any nation, until the color of a man's skin is of no more significance than the color of his eyes.
...and until the basic human rights are equally guaranteed to all without regard to race, there is war.
...and until that day, the dream of lasting peace, world citizenship, rule of international morality, will remain but a fleeting illusion to be pursued, but never attained... now everywhere is war.”
Popularized by Bob Marley in the song "War”
― Haile Selassie I
America is way overdue for Truth and Reconciliation --just my opinion.
People who actually have a choice about where they live will hopefully and compassionately understand the stark crushing reality of not having that choice.
There's no shame in poverty; the shame belongs to those of us who benefit from America's great wealth---without sharing more.
3
If you don't have a choice in where you live, should you burn down your only place to live? very smart! You think that giving such folks choice in where they live, by stealing from yours and mine pocket will solve the problem? It will be exactly the reverse.
11
Wealthy people don't care one whit about poor people, especially those of color. I am only guessing that there is not a lot done in hopes that they will just shoot and kill each other off in their untouchable parts of the city. Cops do whatever they want and of course they won't be called out on any of their behavior. Not to give the young males who live there a pass but if this continues as is, there will not be a happy ending for many. Expect this to happen more often, in other cities too. The message is clear to the powers that be, unrest is afoot if there are no changes in inequality across this nation.
4
"...even those people fortunate enough to graduate from these highly segregated schools..."
This writing sums up the article for me - a total lack of acknowledgment of the role of personal accountability. "Fortune" had little to do with those who graduated - their perseverance and work did (whatever its origin). Similarly, there were hundreds (probably thousands) of dignified Black residents who did NOT take to the streets to wild out for every individual that did - despite a shared racial and socio-economic reality. I completely agree that there are systemic problems that must be addressed but find this articles linkage of these issues to the rioters despicable behavior to simply be the super-imposition of a political agenda onto current events.
This writing sums up the article for me - a total lack of acknowledgment of the role of personal accountability. "Fortune" had little to do with those who graduated - their perseverance and work did (whatever its origin). Similarly, there were hundreds (probably thousands) of dignified Black residents who did NOT take to the streets to wild out for every individual that did - despite a shared racial and socio-economic reality. I completely agree that there are systemic problems that must be addressed but find this articles linkage of these issues to the rioters despicable behavior to simply be the super-imposition of a political agenda onto current events.
22
It is obvious by the many comments- most have no comprehension of the psyche of people who've lived in hopeless conditions- decade after decade: Burning, looting, destruction is the natural recourse- irrespective of what the trigger is. Historically [whether in a U.S. city or abroad], that pattern is similar; Watts, Ferguson, Belfast, South Africa. Next to St. Louis, Missouri, Milwaukee IS the most segregated city in America. Systemic repression ultimately breeds violent responses- with nothing to lose- there is nothing to lose. The problem is- most of us have no knowledge of the history and we are now playing voyeur to circumstances that have been fomenting for decades. There are many hot-spots throughout this nation and we will undoubtedly see more.
4
There is a thing called learned helplessness. In the case of these inner cities, it is liberal democrat enabled learned helplessness. The cure is self realization, not more dollars, or reparations or looting and venting rage.
19
The cure is taking responsibility for oneself. It doesn't require wealth, education or even a job.
12
In NYT coverage of "protests" here is a word I rarely, if ever, read, "arson".
Does the context of "protest" legitimize this felony? Or, is this another legal term, like "illegal alien", that NYT has banished in consideration of the feelings of those on the wrong side of the law?
Does the context of "protest" legitimize this felony? Or, is this another legal term, like "illegal alien", that NYT has banished in consideration of the feelings of those on the wrong side of the law?
41
Poverty, racism, segregation and inequity, as you stated,are ongoing issues demanding a frank conversation first, and prompt appropriate action thereafter, and ongoing vigilance that those in power don't abuse it. Case in point, the police force's cultural values, positive and negative, need to be corralled, discussed, and changed for the better. In communities where fragrant chronic police abuse is demonstrated/documented, a paradigm is absolutely necessary, including the firing of recalcitrant officers unable, or unwilling, to recognize the abusive behavior committed with impunity thus far. This sad state of affairs must be extended to any other group found culpable of abuse, not the least being our prison system, where brutal and, at times, fatal, beating seems routine. All this is a work in progress, and ongoing surveillance a must, and clearly communicated to the officers in charge. Sadists must be weeded out, as well as psychologically challenged individuals. Adequate education, and the need for empathy are a must. Let us try to remove unnecessary victimization of already freedom-deprived convicts, in the hope its majority may be rehabilitated.
the police shooting of another fleeing black man. Racism is running amuck in America. He posed no threat yet was shot dead like a dog. Is it any wonder the black community is outraged? THis reminds one of the vicious shootings by Korean shop owners during the Rodney King riots. Murder of black people, once again, going unpunished.
1
Did you even bother to read any of the facts regarding this incident?
16
No threat? I guess the officer should wait to see if the guy pulls the trigger and kills him - then if the guy doesn't run away, the dead officer would be justified in shooting him in the arm.
22
A black cop shot the 'fleeing' man, who held a weapon, in the chest. Yes? No? No threat? Say what?
13
What, exactly, makes this "racial violence?"
And I mean EXACTLY.
And I mean EXACTLY.
16
If you want to eat in America you must work. That's our system. But there's one little hitch... nobody guarantees you a job to do. AND there aren't enough jobs to go around, particularly for the less educated. But before you blame the underclass for their lack of education ask yourself if people in China and Mexico doing jobs that used to be based in the US are any better educated than our own people? They drop out in the third grade over there, too. But jobs that could have made lives for our third grade dropouts are making lives in other countries, not here. So we no longer have enough jobs to go around in America It would be a sad game of musical chairs except it's no game, and the music you hear is screaming. So who is left standing? People of color. Between a white third grade dropout and a black third grade dropout who gets that job? THAT is how it's racial-- exactly.
2
"If you want to eat in America you must work."
Except for the 45 million on food stamps.
Except for the 45 million on food stamps.
11
"AND there aren't enough jobs to go around, particularly for the less educated."
There are, in fact, jobs for people who don't shudder at the thought of working... That's why the illegals are here, doing what others are not at all interested in doing...
There are, in fact, jobs for people who don't shudder at the thought of working... That's why the illegals are here, doing what others are not at all interested in doing...
7
I certainly have no criticism for a police officer who fires at an armed suspect who refuses to drop his weapon. Can you imagine having his job?
At the same time, I recall my experience as a white teenager in Milwaukee in 1983 after my father's Oldsmobile-- which I had borrowed-- had been stolen for a "joy ride" from the downtown area and then abandoned in "The Core," the black neighborhood on the north side. A white police officer slowly drove me to where the car was now parked, while shining a powerful flashlight into the windows of nearby houses. "They're animals, just look at them," he said. It occurred to me how terrified I would be of this officer if I were black.
At the same time, I recall my experience as a white teenager in Milwaukee in 1983 after my father's Oldsmobile-- which I had borrowed-- had been stolen for a "joy ride" from the downtown area and then abandoned in "The Core," the black neighborhood on the north side. A white police officer slowly drove me to where the car was now parked, while shining a powerful flashlight into the windows of nearby houses. "They're animals, just look at them," he said. It occurred to me how terrified I would be of this officer if I were black.
51
really? that was your thought at the time? Seems odd.
1
I find it amazing that people of color throughout the world are migrating to America in droves, many risking their lives to be here. Years after they arrive they prosper and send money to support the ones they left behind. Reading about the American blacks who chose to stay in poor crime ridden ghettos is something I will never understand. Wake up and move.
35
reply to pepperman33: There are always anecdotes [such as your] used in an effort to do the stereotypical " See- what about this...". You leave out so much. For one, there aren't people-of-color migrating in *droves* to America. America's policies don't allow and those who do "migrate" are typically people-of-color with advanced degrees. People-of-color not entrenched in OUR systemic pattern of racism against Black Americans. Your point could very well be used for any ethnicity coming to America: Why are poor American Whites having it so bad when other Whites from other nations migrating to America do so much better... But- is it a valid point?
2
http://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/african-immigrants-united-states
Donna: There is very definitely increased immigration from Africa of black Africans. While it is true, on average, these people are better educated than American blacks, a very large proportion are refugees or asylees, another large portion coming via the diversity lottery, and a fair proportion working in the service industry and living below the poverty line.
Donna: There is very definitely increased immigration from Africa of black Africans. While it is true, on average, these people are better educated than American blacks, a very large proportion are refugees or asylees, another large portion coming via the diversity lottery, and a fair proportion working in the service industry and living below the poverty line.
2
I had felt that Wisconsin was a nice place with mostly nice people. Senators like LaFollette, Nelson, and Feingold. I guess I had forgotten about the shamelessness of McCarthy and the smug anti-intellectualism of Proxmire. But now, what with Walker, Johnson, Ryan, and the institutional racism coming to light in Milwaukee, maybe not so nice?
12
My Wisconsin pride is long gone. I still cheer for the Packers , but i never admit to being from Wisconsin anymore.
3
The riots here make no logical sense in the context of the BLM movement, its narrative that endemic racism against blacks drives injustice. In this case, the officer was black & the 'victim' had a gun pointing at him, along with extensive criminal history.
So why are the riots here being justified?
The white upper class &/or college student protestors are hypocrites who never step foot into the inner city to live, work, shop, or school their kids. If this happened in their own communities, they would be calling the police for more back up. But it's ok for inner city black people to live in this ongoing gang violence that kills their children--it's ok for them. Not for the upper class. The upper class use the inner city black people as symbols for their own narrative.
And this explains why it doesn't matter to them that the narrative makes no sense-- b/c the narrative was never about truth. it was always about the narrative itself. For instance, Ferguson is still being used as a symbol of racism, even when *facts* showed the narrative of victimhood to be false. Even though there are *actual* horrible cases of racism, the BLM movement is indifferent. Fiction, fact--it doesn't matter. What matters is their narrative.
Who does this perpetual victimhood benefit? This narrative that violence is a solution & blacks are eternal victims of endemic racism. How does this benefit political parties? How does this work to distract our nation from gross neocon economic injustice?
So why are the riots here being justified?
The white upper class &/or college student protestors are hypocrites who never step foot into the inner city to live, work, shop, or school their kids. If this happened in their own communities, they would be calling the police for more back up. But it's ok for inner city black people to live in this ongoing gang violence that kills their children--it's ok for them. Not for the upper class. The upper class use the inner city black people as symbols for their own narrative.
And this explains why it doesn't matter to them that the narrative makes no sense-- b/c the narrative was never about truth. it was always about the narrative itself. For instance, Ferguson is still being used as a symbol of racism, even when *facts* showed the narrative of victimhood to be false. Even though there are *actual* horrible cases of racism, the BLM movement is indifferent. Fiction, fact--it doesn't matter. What matters is their narrative.
Who does this perpetual victimhood benefit? This narrative that violence is a solution & blacks are eternal victims of endemic racism. How does this benefit political parties? How does this work to distract our nation from gross neocon economic injustice?
62
reply to Washington: Do you realize how small the BLM "movement" is? When I read comments like yours, I really want to throw water on my keyboard? How old is the NAACP; how old is the Southern Poverty Law Center? Each generation of society breeds new challenges. YOUR "narrative" makes no sense.
1
"Who does this perpetual victimhood benefit?" An excellent question, Washington. In most instances — particularly politics — there is always an agenda operating below the surface, usually involving wealth or power. But it's very had to see anyone benefitting from this culture of victimhood in the black community that has existed all of my life.
In fact, it seems to be more self-defeating than anything else, with no real "winners." Unfortunately, it also provides a ready excuse for any and all failures of achievement. Genuine black leadership seems nonexistent, but there is no shortage of self-aggrandizing opportunists.
So, until a black leader surfaces who will confront this idea of victimhood with the solution of personal responsibility, stable family structures, and valuing education, I fear this problem will to be around a long time.
In fact, it seems to be more self-defeating than anything else, with no real "winners." Unfortunately, it also provides a ready excuse for any and all failures of achievement. Genuine black leadership seems nonexistent, but there is no shortage of self-aggrandizing opportunists.
So, until a black leader surfaces who will confront this idea of victimhood with the solution of personal responsibility, stable family structures, and valuing education, I fear this problem will to be around a long time.
10
Donna, it is so very easy to be critical, but so much harder to offer solutions. How would YOU propose to solve this problem, i.e., specifically, and without resort to platitudes?
2
I lived in the Sherman Park neighborhood from 1992-2000, and it was a neighborhood in transition rather than a segregated neighborhood, of which there are several in Milwaukee. Mayor Tom Barrett was then a congressman and lived in the neighborhood. There was (and still is) a thriving Orthodox Jewish community that attracted young families to move back from the suburbs and others to move from the East Coast for the cheaper housing. The housing is very attractive in Sherman Park, and professionals, black and white, were moving in to take advantage of it. Of course, I lived there before the recession hit. Still, I would imagine there are probably more complex racial issues in Sherman Park because it IS more diverse than there would be in a neighborhood that is totally African American
7
Between 1985 and 2000 I owned a business on Downer Ave in Milwaukee's "fashionable East side" ( that is really what it was called.) I was a custom jeweler - Cabochon Gems and Designs - with a dozen employees making things so we felt a safety in numbers. Several of my staff and my children's friends ( title 220 ) lived in the "frontier" over the Milwaukee river but we lived in Shorewood. A white suburb with high density apartments near the "border" river and mansions near the lake. White Folks Bay ( white fish ) was the next suburb north and the first place I heard of the crime of Driving While Black. My bank was on Mitchell Street in the Mexican/Hispanic part of town. I did my time in this most segregated city of the US. It treated me well. I am not Black.
My point is, when a snatch a run thief - yes, black- took a carat and a half diamond in a ring from a staff member the police offered tips to prevent a future theft.
TIP # 1.... I should buy an illegal, unregistered handgun and instead of pressing my alarm button, I should shoot to kill. If I killed the thief, I could be excused from worrying about the gun. If I only wounded I would be in trouble. Absolutely no suggestion that if I killed for a diamond I would hate my self forever-- that would have been a true blood diamond. I would swear in court that this is a true story.
My point is, when a snatch a run thief - yes, black- took a carat and a half diamond in a ring from a staff member the police offered tips to prevent a future theft.
TIP # 1.... I should buy an illegal, unregistered handgun and instead of pressing my alarm button, I should shoot to kill. If I killed the thief, I could be excused from worrying about the gun. If I only wounded I would be in trouble. Absolutely no suggestion that if I killed for a diamond I would hate my self forever-- that would have been a true blood diamond. I would swear in court that this is a true story.
15
A black criminal with extensive police and arrest record wields a gun that was STOLEN in a burglary, refuses to drop it, and gets shot by a BLACK COP.
Then, the black residents of that precinct go rioting, setting buildings and vehicles on fire, and destroying their town.
It is hard to sympathize with people who behave badly.
Then, the black residents of that precinct go rioting, setting buildings and vehicles on fire, and destroying their town.
It is hard to sympathize with people who behave badly.
84
My wife and I lived in Milwaukee 1981 to 1983. It is unbelievably racist. There is a bridge in the city that is referred to by locals as the longest bridge in the world because it separates Poland from Africa they say. By the way MPD has a long history of beating people up, but they beat everybody not just Blacks. They are an equal opportunity brutalizer. Milwaukee has a culture of acquiescence to civil authority which I can only surmise goes back to its strong German and Polish working class roots.
6
An armed black man was shot by an armed black cop. So the black residents burn buildings down. It's becoming clear that these communities just don't want to be policed... by anyone, black or white.
60
Those that view this clear example of efficient law enforcement as racist and abuse of police force are as irrational as Trump. In third-world countries, including the middle east, the uneducated ignorant population reacts the same way in their lack of good judgment: with riots, violence, and destruction.
14
"Tackling the root causes of crime would be the most effective way to make the community safer and calm tensions"
Captain Obvious comes to the rescue. I expect better from the director of the Office of Violence Prevention. Might as well just do this: "Siri, what would be the most effective way to make the community safer and calm tensions?"
Captain Obvious comes to the rescue. I expect better from the director of the Office of Violence Prevention. Might as well just do this: "Siri, what would be the most effective way to make the community safer and calm tensions?"
8
So, if only people lived in nicer neighborhoods their behavior would change? They would stop toting guns, shooting each other, selling drugs and rioting? Puhleeese!!
46
Those neighbourhood won't be nice anymore.
5
Thank God in this case the police officer who shot the man was African American and not white. If he were white the racial blame game in the media would be 10 times worse and the officer would be automatically presumed guilty before a trial, just like Ferguson. Gotta love the state of race relations in this country after 8 years of the Obama administration.
42
Here we go again. There is a knee-jerk violent reaction to a police shooting which takes place without anyone bothering to actually gather the facts before deciding that the appropriate response is a riot. Then, when it becomes clear that the police shooting was justified (and had nothing to do with race), the apologists for the rioters claim that the riots were not a reaction to the police shooting but instead reflected decades of resentment at the high rate of unemployment and imprisonment of black men in the affected area and the high rate of poverty among black residents. We're not buying it.
59
What really amazes me is how articles like these draw out the commentary of so many ignorant white people across the U.S. Whenever there's a big riot or police shooting in a black neighborhood, all of a sudden they care deeply about the problems of the black community and want to offer their critical appraisal. Where the heck were they for the previous 4 decades? When did they offer to create new factories, transportation systems, housing ownership programs, state grants, etc. in the black neighborhoods of cities like Milwaukee? When did they critically appraise the police system and change it when it wasn't working? When did they make a concerted effort to hire and train black workers? I must say that reading this comment board makes me just as depressed about white Americans as seeing the burning buildings on tv does about black Americans.
7
Please note that there is a lovely new industrial park in the Milwaukee neighborhood where the riots occurred, built on city property and with public funding. Unfortunately, it is vacant, because no businesses feel confident in bringing their employees to such a high-crime area.
10
" When did they offer to create new factories, transportation systems, housing ownership programs, state grants, etc. in the black neighborhoods of cities like Milwaukee? "
I worked for a civil engineering firm during the Katrina clean up. We were desperate for workers who could just stand. Insurance companies, however, required drug free workers in order to provide insurance. Of the applicants we had, about 90% tested positive for drug use. A shameful comment on black America today, one that the black community, like the issue of illegitimacy, refuses to address.
I worked for a civil engineering firm during the Katrina clean up. We were desperate for workers who could just stand. Insurance companies, however, required drug free workers in order to provide insurance. Of the applicants we had, about 90% tested positive for drug use. A shameful comment on black America today, one that the black community, like the issue of illegitimacy, refuses to address.
12
We're not ignorant-- we don't care. That's apathetic.
2
When this is the response to a black police officer shooting a armed black suspect it call only lead one place. Police will stop or greatly reduce their footprint in poor black neighborhoods. The so-called Ferguson effect. It will reduce the numbers of petty arrests for sure. It will please those people who perceive the police as an occupying army. But it will make the vast majority of law abiding people in these communities less safe.
43
Gee, this isn't the Milwaukee middle American values epitomized my Richie, Ralph, and Potsie.
5
Professional black man with an education, job and police training encounters a probably unemployed black man, who has likely shot other people and has a long criminal record. Criminal turns and raises loaded handgun with 23 bullets towards the professional black man after repeated warnings to drop it and the officer shoots him first. That night several businesses likely owned by hard working minorities are burned to the ground by a large group of mostly unemployed black men, likely many or most with criminal records. I am done listening to the black community members who immediately leap to blaming the police or whites or society in general. Time to cease your endless complaining, time to clean up your community, time to point out the criminals amongst you, time to make sure your kids work hard at school and study at home so they can get jobs and escape the defeatist mentality that grips your community.
105
"Professional black man " is the way you start your comment. WHy should skin color play any role though?
im familiar w firearms and i didnt know there was a pistol available w a 23 round mag
Jupiter: now you know.
3
No black Fonz portrayal on Happy Days.
8
Businesses are leaving Wisconsin and the poverty rate around the state as well as in Milwaukee has risen alarmingly, despite efforts of Gov. Walker's corrupt WEDC, which replaced the state's Department of Commerce. Milwaukee's downtown and lakefront have been revitalized but as this article points out, the north side and other neighborhoods continue to languish. The public transportation system does not provide easy access to industrial parks from the north side so people can't get to jobs even when jobs are available, but there are plans to build a tourist attraction trolley. The WI GOP cut funding for already lamentably underfunded U WI Milwaukee, which of all campuses in the state system serves the city's minority population most yet gets the least state support per student. They closed an award winning center for urban studies at U WI Milwaukee. They cut $250M from the state university system budget and instead decided to spend $250M to subsidize a new basketball palace for the Milwaukee Bucks. The longer term experiment with K-12 charter schools in Milwaukee Public Schools, begun with good intention to improve performance, has expanded into a profit grabbing opportunity. We've seen no significant gains in performance and every school year, there are stories about fly by night schools closing in mid-year, creating chaos for students, but not before they've siphoned off plenty of state tax dollars. And this is just the tip of the iceberg. Weep for Milwaukee and Wisconsin.
13
Perhaps the blacks in this community should stop voting for the same Democrats that have put them in this position in the first. Those elected to help them seem to consistently 'help themselves' and no one else. I know - I used to live in Detroit and watched Kwame Kilpatrick & his goons rob the city over and over again.
32
same story in Philadelphia and DC. Black politicians have controlled the cities for some 40 years and have turned these cities into wastelands.
10
There's just one problem with that: the Republican Party officially gave up on blacks around the time Nixon came into office with his Southern Strategy.
2
JS, that is also part of the problem (at least at the national level). But at local no one can say that black politicians, through incompetence and corruption, have not done their part to devastate the cities they have been governing.
2
As is far too common in the media, this article lays out a series of problems in the black community and then, quoting Mr Moore, assumes that these problems have to do with systemic issues "around poverty, racism, segregation". "Black people have problems, it must be the system that's to blame" is the de facto assumption, and it's one that increasingly needs to be called into question. Other factors need to be examined as well, such as the ones pointed out by black authors John McWhorter in "Losing the Race: Self-Sabotage in Black America" and by Walter Williams in "Race and Economics: How much Can be Blamed on Discrimination?"
Generally, when people can't find work where they are, they move to where there is work available. In his book "Winning the Race" John McWhorter did a study showing that black individuals were unwilling to travel as much as 2 miles to get to work in Indianapolis. Pundits keep writing articles quoting high black unemployment, as if all these people need are job offers, but have they ever stopped to think that perhaps the reason for high unemployment is that many people don't want to work or dont' want to train to get a job? Perhaps they are happier committing crimes -- a life of crime allows them to express rage against The Man in a way that working in an entry level job surely won't.
This article does demonstrate that many black people and white liberal enablers believe that criminals should be freer to commit crime with impunity.
Generally, when people can't find work where they are, they move to where there is work available. In his book "Winning the Race" John McWhorter did a study showing that black individuals were unwilling to travel as much as 2 miles to get to work in Indianapolis. Pundits keep writing articles quoting high black unemployment, as if all these people need are job offers, but have they ever stopped to think that perhaps the reason for high unemployment is that many people don't want to work or dont' want to train to get a job? Perhaps they are happier committing crimes -- a life of crime allows them to express rage against The Man in a way that working in an entry level job surely won't.
This article does demonstrate that many black people and white liberal enablers believe that criminals should be freer to commit crime with impunity.
53
Completely crass and racist post - assuming an entire class of people is in poverty because they're too lazy to even commute to a job. First, these people are too poor to own a car. Second, the city's bus system is heavily underfunded and subpar. Third, a quality light rail system was defeated by the conservatives in the suburbs and across the state who didn't want "those people" traveling out to their neighborhoods.
2
another reason, at least in the construction business, is high rates of positive testing for drug testing. I worked at a civil engineering firm and the applicants from inner cities overwhelming tested positive for drugs, hence eliminating themselves from this job market.
6
2 miles riding a bicycle is cheap/ healthy mode of transportation.
6
To those who believe minorities simply should "pull up their boot straps" to improve their lot in life, consider your life with no or substandard education, no job, no savings/checking account, no support (financial and emotional) from family and friends, and no one with connections to help you find a job. Your rent for substandard housing is excessive and you depend on public transportation. Basically, you are on your own. Under those conditions, how would you change the state of your life?
4
Finishing high school is a start...
10
Replicate other successful culture s, specifically Asian.
10
Ok, Mike. High school diploma in hand. Now what? Get a job.....where? For minimum wage, or less, which hardly will pay rent in substandard housing. Food? Slip and break your wrist.......now what?
Please try to relate to the really difficult circumstances of poor people. Most do not have the broad support that you and I have available to us.
Please try to relate to the really difficult circumstances of poor people. Most do not have the broad support that you and I have available to us.
1
"Release"? Is this how The Times is now justifying violence and destruction of property? Imagine if every group which felt aggrieved were entitled to such a "release"?
Stop making excuses for groups that have little respect for the law or other people's property. Just stop it. Please.
Stop making excuses for groups that have little respect for the law or other people's property. Just stop it. Please.
77
The victim fits Hillary's description of a "super predator"; young, violent, armed and with a long criminal record. Perhaps that's the real issue here. How do we reduce the numbers of Super predators?
39
The people who have been energized by Black Lives Matter need to keep their eyes on the ball. This incident, and the response, have nothing to do with police abuse. The people who burned those buildings and smashed those police vehicles are opportunists, seeking mayhem, loot or just something to do.
Don't excuse their behavior by lashing out at people who are only calling mayhem by its name.
Don't excuse their behavior by lashing out at people who are only calling mayhem by its name.
39
Racial violence is not just tension between whites, blacks and minorities. It is also the result of national economic and trade policy. In the U.S. today we are greatly over stored with super-sized big box retailers. These mega-stores have undone our communities and destroyed jobs and businesses across America. These monster stores have displaced entire sections of our economy namely downtowns and manufacturers of all sizes as the outsize scale of large retailers created unemployment and under employment. Millions of Americans, mostly poor whites as well as blacks and hispanics have found themselves totally shut out of the economy and benefits of the middle class. The result is class and racial warfare. That is what we are now witnessing.
Wal Mat is a half-trillion dollar destruction machine. It makes the Waltons and stock holders wealthy. No one else. Amazon is another threat to jobs and our economy. Live better pay less does not work. It is only a race to the bottom for price that harms everyone including minorities that are now impoverished and jobless.
Racial violence is not just racial violence. It is economic rebellion. It is the result of economic policy that does not work.
There are laws against monopolies. Its time to apply those laws. Ma Bell was broken up. Now, break up the rest. Or watch the inequality grow deeper and the unrest continue at an even higher rate.
Wal Mat is a half-trillion dollar destruction machine. It makes the Waltons and stock holders wealthy. No one else. Amazon is another threat to jobs and our economy. Live better pay less does not work. It is only a race to the bottom for price that harms everyone including minorities that are now impoverished and jobless.
Racial violence is not just racial violence. It is economic rebellion. It is the result of economic policy that does not work.
There are laws against monopolies. Its time to apply those laws. Ma Bell was broken up. Now, break up the rest. Or watch the inequality grow deeper and the unrest continue at an even higher rate.
10
Finally a sane analysis of events of these times. It is not only about retail monopolies though. This is a global issue. Gains of productivity globally have only trickled upward resulting in massive accumulation of wealth, power, and resources among a small % who will do anything to keep hold of it. Just look at this charade of a presidential election for evidence of that. The majority of population globally is a vast slave class. The election allows us US slaves to choose between one or the other privileged white-collar-corrupt master/mistress. "Race wars" is a distraction to keep the growing underclasses of the world, of all ethnicities, from coming together to require a more equitable distribution of currency and the increased leisure time that our productivity should result in. Making education unavailable or unaffordable is the way to keep us slaves ignorant and reacting emotionally and superstitiously rather than thinking critically. And both racial segregation, by default, neglect, or planned as well as the false tenets of nationalism and religious extremism are tools of manipulation utilized to keep our focus off the real issue at hand. The privileged who control the global economy will sit back and watch us slaves cannibalize each other. Productivity gains make such a large labor force obsolete so they will observe and subtly orchestrate its reduction in ways that do not dirty their hands directly. Fewer slaves to feed, clothe and house = more for them in the end.
1
Maybe you shouldn't keep voting for the same representatives.
Obviously liberal policies aren't working but keep doing the same thing and expecting a different result. insane
Obviously liberal policies aren't working but keep doing the same thing and expecting a different result. insane
20
Trust me -- people in Wisconsin do not have liberal representation. We have conservative republican representation in both houses and in the governorship whose methods of addressing social problems consist simply of extending gun rights to as many people as possible. The man shot in Milwaukee was carrying an automatic weapon. The police are afraid. But it's not of liberal policies.
2
no, i am not surprised that this 'community' once again ... can ONLY come together as a 'community' when they can find someone to hate, judge, and point their finger at - it's sickening it's tiring and it reeks of some very misplace sense of priorities when your whole life is based on blaming ANYONE and ANYTHING else for your own failures - tedious, very tedious. the only thing more tedious are these ridiculously long postings detailing how everyone has failed that community except the people who actually live in that community who's idea of life has something to do with being handed EVERYTHING - get over the slave mentality - you do not need to hide behind massa' on the plantation
41
Wisconsin more than any other state reflects it's overt racism within their prison population which has the highest black to other minorities ratio in the nation by far and it didn't get that way over night. Our so called "justice system" is mostly designed for voter suppression by creating crimes out of nothing so they can point and say look at the criminal. That's why our rotten leaders stole away so many people's right to vote making our sentences all life sentences. The only wonder is why the riots haven't started sooner.
2
It's past time to call these "protests", in which businesses are burned and purple injured, for what they are--riots.
66
You mean - kind of like The Boston Tea Party ... ?
"The Boston Tea Party...was a political protest by the Sons of Liberty in Boston, on December 16, 1773. The demonstrators, some disguised as Native Americans, in defiance of the Tea Act of May 10, 1773, destroyed an entire shipment of tea sent by the East India Company.
They boarded the ships and threw the chests of tea into Boston Harbor. The British government responded harshly and the episode escalated into the American Revolution."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_Tea_Party
You mean those types of protests -- er -- riots...?
"The Boston Tea Party...was a political protest by the Sons of Liberty in Boston, on December 16, 1773. The demonstrators, some disguised as Native Americans, in defiance of the Tea Act of May 10, 1773, destroyed an entire shipment of tea sent by the East India Company.
They boarded the ships and threw the chests of tea into Boston Harbor. The British government responded harshly and the episode escalated into the American Revolution."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_Tea_Party
You mean those types of protests -- er -- riots...?
1
Riots? No. Opportunities for looting? Yes.
7
We could only be pleased if blacks dumped tea into the harbor when they "protested".
1
It is good that Mr. Jackson's comments were included, but there should have been some follow-up. Is the implication that officers of color, too, see those they patrol as "lesser" beings, or do today's officers of color see the job just as their white counter parts do, i.e., to preserve the peace against armed people who aim guns at them? I would like to hear from those officers doing the job today.
9
It's interesting to see all of these journalists twisting themselves into knots trying to justify this community's despicable reaction to what looks to be a very clear-cut situation of a police officer doing his job protecting the community from someone hell bent on being a problem. Why does every single one of these situations have to be indicative of an over-arching systemic race problem? Are we going to brush off the fact that the officer was black? Has he been imbued with systemic racism in his mind just because he happens to put on a uniform every day?
Do Black Lives Matter? Absolutely. But we've gone a bridge too far when we knee-jerk react to every incident like this assuming that the police have done wrong and the perpetrator was innocent. This guy fled from a police officer, had a rap sheet a mile long, and pointed a gun at said officer - a gun that was stolen several months ago. We might also point out that he had 23 rounds in a gun designed to hold 25. Where might those other bullets have gone? Maybe he could only afford 23 rounds, is that it?
He was a victim of his own consequences, not a grand symbol of greater racial tensions in Milwaukee. Let's stop trying to turn every situation into a sweeping social commentary.
Do Black Lives Matter? Absolutely. But we've gone a bridge too far when we knee-jerk react to every incident like this assuming that the police have done wrong and the perpetrator was innocent. This guy fled from a police officer, had a rap sheet a mile long, and pointed a gun at said officer - a gun that was stolen several months ago. We might also point out that he had 23 rounds in a gun designed to hold 25. Where might those other bullets have gone? Maybe he could only afford 23 rounds, is that it?
He was a victim of his own consequences, not a grand symbol of greater racial tensions in Milwaukee. Let's stop trying to turn every situation into a sweeping social commentary.
220
In this case, the police acted correctly. In MOST cases, involving people of color, they don't. ONE TIME they did the right thing. THAT is the problem. "Even a broken clock is right twice a day."
1
500 rounds of ammunition were found in the car. Availability was not an issue.
3
"Are we going to brush off the fact that the officer was black? Has he been imbued with systemic racism in his mind just because he happens to put on a uniform every day?"
Answer: Umm, yeah. Probably. And because many sectors of American society still have deep pockets of systemic racism. Cops, of any race, are no different from the rest of us. Things are better, in terms of race relations, than they were 50 years ago, but the struggle isn't over. You can't erase the long shadow that slavery has cast over our country by passing laws. The changes in the human heart and mind take much longer.
Answer: Umm, yeah. Probably. And because many sectors of American society still have deep pockets of systemic racism. Cops, of any race, are no different from the rest of us. Things are better, in terms of race relations, than they were 50 years ago, but the struggle isn't over. You can't erase the long shadow that slavery has cast over our country by passing laws. The changes in the human heart and mind take much longer.
So what else is new? School systems all over the country are heavily segregated anymore as parents who can afford to pull their children out of schools that have failed and/or are failing even if it is necessary to take a second job or mom goes to work. Many do so because the schools are more indoctrination center than education center. The latest Leftist idea that anatomical boys and girls should be able to shower together and change clothes in the locker room is pushing more parents into the private school systems.
The statement that Blacks received 4% of home loans is irrelevant since we know that with all the federal mandates to loan regardless of income income lower than those standards is probably why it's only 4%.
Public protest is a national right but not destruction of property. It's possible for some to understand the fires as part of the protest. What destroys that protest though is the looting. Before the gas station was burned it was stripped of the cigarettes, beer and wine. The firearms discharges would not have been tolerated had they been done by Whites. Witness the hand wringing that takes place when Whites just carry a weapon.
Why did the police not close off traffic past the fires? Throughout the night people were driving past them and cheering.
O'Reilly probably won't replace their store there and possibly the gas station. Civil disturbances are not covered by insurance. So there go a few of the very few jobs available.
The statement that Blacks received 4% of home loans is irrelevant since we know that with all the federal mandates to loan regardless of income income lower than those standards is probably why it's only 4%.
Public protest is a national right but not destruction of property. It's possible for some to understand the fires as part of the protest. What destroys that protest though is the looting. Before the gas station was burned it was stripped of the cigarettes, beer and wine. The firearms discharges would not have been tolerated had they been done by Whites. Witness the hand wringing that takes place when Whites just carry a weapon.
Why did the police not close off traffic past the fires? Throughout the night people were driving past them and cheering.
O'Reilly probably won't replace their store there and possibly the gas station. Civil disturbances are not covered by insurance. So there go a few of the very few jobs available.
17
This country has been addressing race and equal opportunity for over 60 years, designed, administered, and put into effect numerous programs to address the grievances of the Black population. The Civil Rights act was passed in 1964. Schools were desegregated in the South about that same time, and within 10 years Affirmative Action was started. Racism and discrimination have been loudly and publicly denounced by virtually every politician, and everyone in the media since the 50's. Every business in this country has been integrated, as have all the police and fire departments. Shopping, restaurants, and all public places have been integrated.
The efforts to improve race relations in this country have been gargantuan. It often seems we talk and do nothing else but develop more programs to address racial grievances and inequities , and yet nothing ever seems to improve. I guess it is no wonder why so many Americans are contemptuous of liberals, since every one of these programs were advocated and set in motion by liberals who apparently foolishly thought they could improve things? And now there will be more programs put in place.....
The efforts to improve race relations in this country have been gargantuan. It often seems we talk and do nothing else but develop more programs to address racial grievances and inequities , and yet nothing ever seems to improve. I guess it is no wonder why so many Americans are contemptuous of liberals, since every one of these programs were advocated and set in motion by liberals who apparently foolishly thought they could improve things? And now there will be more programs put in place.....
28
If racism disappeared overnight, there are far too many Americans who wouldn't know what to do with themselves. This is why "racism" cannot disappear.
4
Wow !
12.5% of Black men have been incarcerated in Milwaukee County.
20% unemployment rate among the Black population.
A poverty rate in the Black community at a rate one and a half the times that of the white community.
Reading proficiency 15.7% and math proficiency at 20.3% in Milwaukee Public Schools.
Blacks comprise 16% of the metro population and only 4% of the loans
Your numbers my conclusion. A systematic oppression of a population through inequitable law enforcement. Generational poverty sustained by high unemployment rates and substandard schools. A financial community unwilling to invest in the Black community.
Police shootings of Blacks, justified or not, are just the spark that ignites the inferno.
12.5% of Black men have been incarcerated in Milwaukee County.
20% unemployment rate among the Black population.
A poverty rate in the Black community at a rate one and a half the times that of the white community.
Reading proficiency 15.7% and math proficiency at 20.3% in Milwaukee Public Schools.
Blacks comprise 16% of the metro population and only 4% of the loans
Your numbers my conclusion. A systematic oppression of a population through inequitable law enforcement. Generational poverty sustained by high unemployment rates and substandard schools. A financial community unwilling to invest in the Black community.
Police shootings of Blacks, justified or not, are just the spark that ignites the inferno.
4
It's worth asking why the schools are substandard. One wonders if part of the reason, to be blunt, isn't that the kids in them show up unready to learn, because they haven't had good early childhood preparation (nobody reads to them or talks to them at home), they are traumatized by living in unstable neighborhoods, they aren't being fed properly, etc. I wonder whether if you took the same schools (same teachers, same buildings, etc.) and swapped out the kids, either for middle class kids or for poor kids but from different cultural backgrounds, those substandard schools wouldn't all of a sudden start looking a lot better . This is not to blame the kids, obviously - the conditions they grow up in are not their fault. But it does tell us something about where the remedies have to lie.
3
Racial violence was decades in the making? In other words there is a great deal of blame to shared? I don't buy it any longer. I'm a baby boomer, 1947 year of origin. I remember the 60s. And everything from then up to now. Me and most of my progressive/liberal and even conservative friends, neighbors, classmates and college associates, the great majority of us stood up for civil rights and especially black rights, and the rights of women and minorities.
I don't believe that the current spate of racial violence was decades in the making. We have been working together hand in hand to improve the lives of others for all of those decades. I now strongly believe that there are some peoples, not necessarily minorities, but obviously politically motivated, who during the last 10 years have worked diligently to undermine the rights and accomplishments of the years since civil rights. I also believe that one party, the Republican party, is guilty of egregious actions to undermine civil rights. The Democrats are not innocent as their silence and inaction is equally egregious.
Do not tell us all whites and police are racist and equally guilty of the destruction of minority rights as well as the plotting and planning by whites to keep blacks out of the mainstream and restrict their opportunity for education, housing, health care and jobs. There is no conspiracy by the general population of whites.
Blacks must accept responsibility for their lives and their children's future.
I don't believe that the current spate of racial violence was decades in the making. We have been working together hand in hand to improve the lives of others for all of those decades. I now strongly believe that there are some peoples, not necessarily minorities, but obviously politically motivated, who during the last 10 years have worked diligently to undermine the rights and accomplishments of the years since civil rights. I also believe that one party, the Republican party, is guilty of egregious actions to undermine civil rights. The Democrats are not innocent as their silence and inaction is equally egregious.
Do not tell us all whites and police are racist and equally guilty of the destruction of minority rights as well as the plotting and planning by whites to keep blacks out of the mainstream and restrict their opportunity for education, housing, health care and jobs. There is no conspiracy by the general population of whites.
Blacks must accept responsibility for their lives and their children's future.
26
Have you ever been to Milwaukee? The "conspiracy" you describe is no secret there - it is an open book.
1
JS Chicago, IL- Horse feathers! There is no secret. There is no open book. There is no conspiracy.
There are people who no matter how much we extend a hand to help refuse to make changes in their lives, in their communities, in their schools and churches.
People must be willing to work to achieve higher goals. People must be willing to stand together and get the gangs, drugs and guns out of the neighborhoods. People must be willing to work hard, no matter what the job or jobs required to educate their children and set good examples. Seventy two percent of black children are born out of wedlock! That is total irresponsibility on the part of black women and black men. There is no white conspiracy for that.
Black on black crime is not a white conspiracy or a police conspiracy. Refusing to study in school and not drop out is not a white conspiracy. I may be my brother's keeper but I can't do his work. Nor will I anymore. Crack a book in school and don't sell or use "crack". Join together as a community to help your own kids. Raise money from wealthy blacks for the U.S. not for overseas schools.
Make an effort! Clean up your act. Stop blaming others.
I was born in the South Bronx in poverty. So were we all. We made it. We worked. We went to high school and studied. We joined the service, came home and went to college. Our wives worked. We set examples for our children. I'm tired of hearing complaints about white racism. We were too busy working to engage in any conspiracy.
There are people who no matter how much we extend a hand to help refuse to make changes in their lives, in their communities, in their schools and churches.
People must be willing to work to achieve higher goals. People must be willing to stand together and get the gangs, drugs and guns out of the neighborhoods. People must be willing to work hard, no matter what the job or jobs required to educate their children and set good examples. Seventy two percent of black children are born out of wedlock! That is total irresponsibility on the part of black women and black men. There is no white conspiracy for that.
Black on black crime is not a white conspiracy or a police conspiracy. Refusing to study in school and not drop out is not a white conspiracy. I may be my brother's keeper but I can't do his work. Nor will I anymore. Crack a book in school and don't sell or use "crack". Join together as a community to help your own kids. Raise money from wealthy blacks for the U.S. not for overseas schools.
Make an effort! Clean up your act. Stop blaming others.
I was born in the South Bronx in poverty. So were we all. We made it. We worked. We went to high school and studied. We joined the service, came home and went to college. Our wives worked. We set examples for our children. I'm tired of hearing complaints about white racism. We were too busy working to engage in any conspiracy.
17
Honestly, you don't sound like someone who had anything to do with the civil rights movement. Are you willing to even ask why so many children in that community were born out of wedlock? Maybe it has to do with so many males being incarcerated repeatedly for minor drug offenses, then unable to find work and marry into a steady domestic situation? C'mon, look beyond stereotypes please.
1
I would like to change the Title of the this article to Jobless violence in Milwaukee, because that is the root cause of the problem in every city in America.No jobs ,equate into no taxes for proper services,education , & urban renewal.The Democratic Party have given people of color Government assistance while they are unemployed which insured their votes. The Republicans who receive a low percentage of votes from Black & Hispanic voters,,could care less for their plight, and use the joblessness of the poor as a political rallying cry for their Rank & File,” Romney’s speech about 40% of Americans are on Government Assistance, while those with jobs pay taxes for it, Translation, don’t vote for the Democrats who are responsible for these government handouts.So here you have it, millions of people of color are caught between dirty callous politics for their own political benefits, & the villains are people without jobs or hope, living in sub standard housing with substandard education & services.We are all responsible for the Milwaukee’s of America.The greatest danger to our Nation is not coming from outside our borders, the danger is as close as a five minute drive to the outer fringes of our cities.We probably can't bring back the jobs that left, but we can create jobs that offer on the job training to become Machinists, Technicians, & Engineers, & beyond.If we could go to the Moon, we can certainly afford to do that, & stop using our Americans of color as political pawns.
9
Burning down your neighborhood while firing guns is not a remedy for poverty, injustice, segregation, inequity or unemployment.
57
Move along...nothing to see here...loaded stolen gun with 40 rounds...refusing to obey black policemen to stop captured on camera...long rap sheet...violent on line profile...move along...nothing to see here.
33
Was the owner of the auto burned the officer who shot the armed felon? How about the owner of the gas station, the auto parts store, or the other businesses the rioters destroyed?
The people doing the burning and looting, once they have done their business, talk about needing justice; where is the justice in their actions? They want a police officer prosecuted for defending himself, yet they protect their own against prosecution for arson.
If someone can explain away this hypocrisy, i would be most grateful.
The people doing the burning and looting, once they have done their business, talk about needing justice; where is the justice in their actions? They want a police officer prosecuted for defending himself, yet they protect their own against prosecution for arson.
If someone can explain away this hypocrisy, i would be most grateful.
54
Wait--the officer involved in the shooting is black, preliminary reports indicate that the person shot was armed and not following orders to drop the weapon--And that's all the information there is before people start burning cars and rioting? I understand that there are community problems with a long track record, but if your rallying trigger is murky, it tends to detract from your cause. There are more constructive ways to address community problems.
30
The deceased was a on fast track to nowhere...multiple arrests, including previous involvement in a shooting and witness intimidation. He was in possession of a stolen gun which he did not drop when given a lawful order to do so. He was shot by a police officer who was executing his sworn duty to protect the public...in a city where 5 people were killed the night before. And for this we get rioting? Depictions of the deceased as a "good boy?" Stop this nonsense! Will somebody please have the intestinal fortitude to say that this is unacceptable idiocy in a civilized society?
65
There is no better place for Hillary Clinton's infrastructure rebuilding project to begin than at the corner of Sherman Boulevard and Burleigh Street. She visited the neighborhood during the Wisconsin primary campaign, and now she should come back to reaffirm its importance to her.
4
In 1987 we moved to Milwaukee County - from upstate NY, where we'd lived for 18 years.
The Milwaukee area is by far the most racist area I've ever lived in. Neighborhoods are not integrated. Even in the suburbs. I mean NOT!
It is no surprise to me to read of riots in black neighborhoods in Milwaukee. We feel relieved to have chosen a retirement community over an hour's drive west. Where we see far more integration.
I grieve for our country.
The Milwaukee area is by far the most racist area I've ever lived in. Neighborhoods are not integrated. Even in the suburbs. I mean NOT!
It is no surprise to me to read of riots in black neighborhoods in Milwaukee. We feel relieved to have chosen a retirement community over an hour's drive west. Where we see far more integration.
I grieve for our country.
10
How sad that you've chosen to live in a country that makes you so unhappy; perhaps you should have retired to a place like Costa Rica. From my perspective, Wisconsin is a lovely state, and I can say that the suburbs that I visited this summer were a good mix of White, Asian, and Hispanic residents.
12
You're probably unaware that were we to live outside the US, Medicare would no longer pay for our healthcare. And my spouse, who has a green card, would lose his US social security. (Otherwise we'd be in Spain, where he's a citizen.)
2
So, folks do not want cops to protect themselves when confronted with armed suspects?
When folks says it was years in the making that's true, the us vs them, black vs white and so on has created this mess. The support by folks for the lies of BLM and cops "out to kill blacks" is crazy.
We tell folks race doesn't matter and then spend all of our time talking about "something" that doesn't matter is bad.
Are there areas we need to work on, yes such as crime, poverty, education and jobs, but these areas of improvement are for all Americans not just one part. It doesn't matter if your black or white, things stink all over and need to improve.
When folks says it was years in the making that's true, the us vs them, black vs white and so on has created this mess. The support by folks for the lies of BLM and cops "out to kill blacks" is crazy.
We tell folks race doesn't matter and then spend all of our time talking about "something" that doesn't matter is bad.
Are there areas we need to work on, yes such as crime, poverty, education and jobs, but these areas of improvement are for all Americans not just one part. It doesn't matter if your black or white, things stink all over and need to improve.
29
You don't seem to remember the hundreds of years and thousands of laws specifically targeting black people, holding them down, tearing apart their families, making it illegal for them to read, move around, hold certain jobs, buy a house, go to a good school, incarcerating them in great numbers and making it very difficult to climb out of poverty. We didn't have those same systematic biases against Germans, Arabs, Irish, Jews and many other groups that have immigrated here and integrated themselves into 'regular' society. I would have agreed with your post 20 years ago before I started working in public education. I went to 2 schools in San Francisco on successive days. One was in a nice very white neighborhood and it was an arts immersion school. Everyone was happy and the place was wonderful. The next day I went to an elementary school in the Bayview section of town. The principal told us, and this is a direct quote, "We don't care what they (the kids) do as long as they are not fighting." The teachers were beyond horrible and it was literally like an asylum. The idea that white and black kids somehow get the same education is blatantly not true and I'm sure it's the same with getting a loan, buying a house etc.
3
Whoa there Sal. We sure did have those same biases against nonWASP immigrant cultures - the Irish, Italians, Poles, and yes Jews. Before people with black skin moved northward and before people with brown skin from our neighbors south were enticed to come here to be agricultural laborers for substandard pay, in the northern industrial factories the hated poverty stricken underclasses living in enclaves segregated by ethnicity were exactly those Euro groups. To be sure black and brown people were the brunt of exploitation later, but please do a bit more historical research into who were the initial industrial immigrant underclasses. That being said all of it is sick and wrong a manifestation of discompassionate greed and selfishness disguised and excused by bogus bootstraps mythology.
2
Sal:
There are immigrants arriving in the US every day who have had terrible lives and experienced horrific events much more recently.
They would never succeed if the first thing they did was to go around trying to enlist everyone in their victimhood. They succeed by getting busy.
It's the paradigm of "victimhood" that acts as chains today.
There are immigrants arriving in the US every day who have had terrible lives and experienced horrific events much more recently.
They would never succeed if the first thing they did was to go around trying to enlist everyone in their victimhood. They succeed by getting busy.
It's the paradigm of "victimhood" that acts as chains today.
1
It's not systemic racial discrimination when people want safe neighborhoods to relax in and spend their money in restaurants, boutiques and bars. And it's noise, trash and criminal violence rather than racism that keeps people away from minority neighborhoods. Black children continue to drop out of school in disproportionately high numbers despite persistent attempts to council them, and black adults continue to commit crimes with a disproportionately high frequency despite threats of incarceration. The reasons for greater police involvement, including violent action, with people in black neighborhoods are not mysterious. If blacks want to better their social and economic situation the first step is to recognize that they are contributing to their own misery.
47
So now the current rioting is over past "grievances", and not about a dangerous criminal who created his own fate (with "support" from his community) Wow. This idea, of course, can become an excuse for everyone to start setting the world on fire and blame it all on being aggrieved. So many victims out there, and the rest of us are just perpetrators, I guess.
For the most part, you create your own future in this country and in this life, and if people can't handle this fundamental truth, then call in the National Guard to protect the rest of us.
For the most part, you create your own future in this country and in this life, and if people can't handle this fundamental truth, then call in the National Guard to protect the rest of us.
50
"Milwaukee is one of the United States’ most segregated cities..."
And how did it get that way?
Have you asked white folks why they have moved out? Have you listened to their experiences with crime and violence?
I went through a similar experience in Detroit. As things progressed and became worse in terms of crime and violence I was told that I was afraid of the unknown and didn't want to share power with people who didn't look like me. I had no problem with the fact that my neighborhood was a modest lower middle class area situation on the near-eastside of Detroit. However things got progressively worse and as time went on many of the newer residents referred to it as "the ghetto". It was never a ghetto or slum in my eyes but it had been newly ordained as such.
When my family moved out we heard the exclamation: "Look! White flight that's what's caused our problems!"
Now there is violence in Milwaukee because a criminal who illegally possessed a pistol was shot while being pursued by police. That'll draw folks back to the city.
And on and on it goes, the liberal guilt perpetual motion machine.
Talk to the folks who moved out, you might learn something about why things ended up the way they are.
And how did it get that way?
Have you asked white folks why they have moved out? Have you listened to their experiences with crime and violence?
I went through a similar experience in Detroit. As things progressed and became worse in terms of crime and violence I was told that I was afraid of the unknown and didn't want to share power with people who didn't look like me. I had no problem with the fact that my neighborhood was a modest lower middle class area situation on the near-eastside of Detroit. However things got progressively worse and as time went on many of the newer residents referred to it as "the ghetto". It was never a ghetto or slum in my eyes but it had been newly ordained as such.
When my family moved out we heard the exclamation: "Look! White flight that's what's caused our problems!"
Now there is violence in Milwaukee because a criminal who illegally possessed a pistol was shot while being pursued by police. That'll draw folks back to the city.
And on and on it goes, the liberal guilt perpetual motion machine.
Talk to the folks who moved out, you might learn something about why things ended up the way they are.
86
Is it the folks with jobs and good salaries who move out?
Is it the going nowhere, no I can't get a job, maybe it's because the color of my skin that no one will hire me or train me or spend a little time with me (like they do for their white menthes), people who stay put?
And the blame? Well of course it's the fault of the people who can't get a job, can't make a living, can't support their families, it's those people who're to blame!
When "flight" is all about "I've got the money and the job to move," then how completely deluded to blame those who are prevented from taking care of themselves and their families for the self-righteous and fatuous claim that "'we' were forced out."
Is it the going nowhere, no I can't get a job, maybe it's because the color of my skin that no one will hire me or train me or spend a little time with me (like they do for their white menthes), people who stay put?
And the blame? Well of course it's the fault of the people who can't get a job, can't make a living, can't support their families, it's those people who're to blame!
When "flight" is all about "I've got the money and the job to move," then how completely deluded to blame those who are prevented from taking care of themselves and their families for the self-righteous and fatuous claim that "'we' were forced out."
3
Puleez! I lived in Detroit right in the middle of the 'ghetto' in 1967 and there was a thriving downtown with theatre and opera and conventions. I felt completely safe at all times and the only crime I ever witnessed was a policeman collecting protection (liquor) at a small neighborhood store. My husband and I visited in 1989 and there was not a white person living there from 10 mile Rd to downtown and the downtown was deserted with grass growing up through the sidewalks. Cobo Hall was an Island where white people stood fearfully. And white flight had nothing to do with this?
2
Don't forget, if you move back, that will be gentrification and also what's caused all the problems.
13
How so very different from other places where violence has broken out after pollce killings of black men.
Wait!
Maybe I'm confused. Maybe a history of brutal, discriminatory, decades of unjustified and unpunished police killings of blacks do in fact matter?
Wait!
Maybe I'm confused. Maybe a history of brutal, discriminatory, decades of unjustified and unpunished police killings of blacks do in fact matter?
3
Did you know that Milwaukee has had a republican mayor for one hundred years?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mayors_of_Milwaukee
Did we ever hear about this racial tension when Wisconsin had a democratic governor? No.
Something to think about...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mayors_of_Milwaukee
Did we ever hear about this racial tension when Wisconsin had a democratic governor? No.
Something to think about...
4
No racial tension in any state that has a democratic governor? Thanks, did not know that. LOL
8
Do you even read your own links? I did, and Milwaukee has had Democrat for a Mayor since before your great-Great-Grandfather was born.
Seriously.
Seriously.
4
Many of the reader comments indicate their obliviousness to their privilege and continue to 'blame the victim.' Is that because it makes them feel that the world is 'fair and just' and everyone gets what they deserve? The legacy of slavery is written in the fabric of our society, our culture, our laws. We need not be guilty because we did not create the system but we certainly have an obligation to change it. If we have to be proud of who we are, if we want to be fully alive, we have to be a part of the solution.
8
Demanding that people take responsibility for their actions is not "blaming the victim." Leave it to progressives to come up with these ridiculous terms to avoid any responsibility.
8
No one, no government free money, can make a person do anything from behaving better to quitting smoking. You have to do it YOURSELF.
5
More excuse making. Feel better?
5
The cities with the highest anti-police sentiments are always some of the mostdangerous cities in the nation. Feel free to make your own conclusions to why that is.
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/st-louis-baltimore-milwaukee-top-list-highest-r...
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/st-louis-baltimore-milwaukee-top-list-highest-r...
21
Get rid of your Republicans and maybe their replacements can put things back together in Wisconsin. It will take awhile, but, if you voters don't change something, this will never end.
4
Glad to know everything is peachy keen under the Democrat party. No racial tension, etc. Can't wait to move.
11
Wisconsin voters: Be ready for the 2018 race for the governor's office.
2
The Democratic Party is NOT perfect, certainly. But, the Republican Party is crazy. We see it every single day. Wisconsin's governor is a great example. And, their current 1st district congressman. Liars, cheats, opportunists, know-nothings, wheeler dealers, who enable discrimination at every level of society.
3
By focusing on "decades in the making", the Times ignores the ghoulish behavior of the looters, which included seeking out whites to beat. These individuals are still moral agents, not just standard liberal victims.
53
Kudos to Sheriff David Clarke who quickly saw the need for the National Guard.
Ferguson and Baltimore were too slow.
Ferguson and Baltimore were too slow.
22
I am an Asian-American and I don't understand the notion that if whites move into black neighborhoods or the inner cities, it is gentrification and out pricing the blacks out of their neighborhoods. If whites stay away its segregation! The NYTimes is like the Church...makes us feel guilty even though we didn't do anything wrong!
123
Genius! The hypocrisy is laughable.
3
I want to "like" this more than once!
6
Gentrification itself doesn't have to result in astronomically high rents and, subsequently, the displacement of black citizens. Such is the fault of developers and landlords who know quite well that working class black folk won't be able to afford the rise in rent prices but that white people from the bordering suburbs certainly can.
It's our responsibility as white people to not simply feel guilty about this phenomenon (seriously, petulance doesn't look good on the privileged) but to work towards understanding and mitigating the unnecessary consequences of gentrification utilizing our own agency.
Segregation is not the result of marginalized people wanting to develop their communities in the wake of centuries of racial strife. Rather, it is the deliberate policy of pandering politicians who have an objective of preserving the wealth and property of the historically privileged in this country.
It's our responsibility as white people to not simply feel guilty about this phenomenon (seriously, petulance doesn't look good on the privileged) but to work towards understanding and mitigating the unnecessary consequences of gentrification utilizing our own agency.
Segregation is not the result of marginalized people wanting to develop their communities in the wake of centuries of racial strife. Rather, it is the deliberate policy of pandering politicians who have an objective of preserving the wealth and property of the historically privileged in this country.
2
Isn't Paul Ryan from Wisconsin? Shouldn't he be there saying something to calm things down? Or is he too busy twisting himself into a pretzel as he supports Donald Trump for president?
I wish that people would save the protests for those who did not do anything that called on the police to stop them by shooting to kill. Yes, we are well aware of the disrespect the police show towards African Americans and civilians in general. Rioting doesn't help. Protesting does. Letter writing does. Having marches does. But rioting confirms some peoples' bad opinions of blacks or any other minority. Please, if you want to change things, don't trash cars, set fires, loot, or riot. Have a sit in. March past the police station(s). Vote the current mayor out of office. Get the federal government involved. Rioting decreases the effectiveness of the message.
I wish that people would save the protests for those who did not do anything that called on the police to stop them by shooting to kill. Yes, we are well aware of the disrespect the police show towards African Americans and civilians in general. Rioting doesn't help. Protesting does. Letter writing does. Having marches does. But rioting confirms some peoples' bad opinions of blacks or any other minority. Please, if you want to change things, don't trash cars, set fires, loot, or riot. Have a sit in. March past the police station(s). Vote the current mayor out of office. Get the federal government involved. Rioting decreases the effectiveness of the message.
8
Paul Ryan is not from the Milwaukee area; he's from Racine. This is like asking Jerry Nadler to comment on riots in upstate New York.
8
I grew up in the South Bronx. For a long time the Bronx was the poorest county in the entire country. Even now, as the landscape is dotted with luxury high rise apt, poverty still persists throughout the borough. But we as African Americans have got to stop telling ourselves that racism and discrimination absolve us of responsibility for our actions, for the actions of our children, and for the condition of our communities. I left the Bronx as soon as I could, because of this type of attitude of victimization that negates personal responsibility.
The residents of Milwaukee have legitimate grievances against the social systems that have resulted in widespread poverty and lack of employment, and unequal education and housing. But how does destroying the businesses in your own community solve those problems? How does creating more burned out, condemned properties help to bring about positive change? How does taking food from the mouths of the people who operate businesses and provide services in your community, put food in your mouth?
And not every black person killed by the police is a martyr. Let's be reasonable. A black police officer, killed a black suspect who was wielding a gun. Destruction of property and of the means by which people earn their livelihood is never the answer. Look how long it has taken Baltimore to recover. There are still burned out buildings 2 years later.
The residents of Milwaukee have legitimate grievances against the social systems that have resulted in widespread poverty and lack of employment, and unequal education and housing. But how does destroying the businesses in your own community solve those problems? How does creating more burned out, condemned properties help to bring about positive change? How does taking food from the mouths of the people who operate businesses and provide services in your community, put food in your mouth?
And not every black person killed by the police is a martyr. Let's be reasonable. A black police officer, killed a black suspect who was wielding a gun. Destruction of property and of the means by which people earn their livelihood is never the answer. Look how long it has taken Baltimore to recover. There are still burned out buildings 2 years later.
103
i agree - the answer is NOT in tearing themselves down again and blaming etc etc - the answer is rising above to make change and that does not happen by random violence or expecting someone else to fill your empty hand. life is hard and some folks can't get over the fact that sometimes? you just have to suck it up and move on to a better place (mentally and physically)
5
The greatest empowerment of any person, regardless of race, gender, etc., is in taking personal responsibility. With that comes liberation.
15
I need not (even though I did) read through the whole article. Another "victiim" with a long rap sheet, a gun and refusing to cooperate with the police. And we will soon, if we haven't already, be hearing from this family that he was a good person intent on turning his life around and was carrying the gun, as is his second amendment right of course, for protection. And he will become a "hero" of the revolution just like Michael Brown, Eric Garner, Freddie Gray who society has wronged. And it will be society's fault.
I grew up living in a project as did many of my friends. Our lifts were not covered with graffiti nor were the hallways. we kept our apartments and hallways clean. We had little crime. We didn't have people stealing the light bulbs from the stairwells to hide and mug. My family had 2 kids, my sister and me, and that was it. We didn't keep bringing babies into the world who we couldn't provide for. My dad worked; my mother was home for me and my sister at 3:00 when we came home from school. We'd complain about something we thought our teacher had done and our parents didn't want to hear it. We were taught respect for adults.
We are sick of this. Yes our forebearers had their problems before coming here but we didn't use it as an excuse to riot. Nobody wants to hear the truth but the truth has to be told and smetimes the truth isn't pleasant to behold.
I grew up living in a project as did many of my friends. Our lifts were not covered with graffiti nor were the hallways. we kept our apartments and hallways clean. We had little crime. We didn't have people stealing the light bulbs from the stairwells to hide and mug. My family had 2 kids, my sister and me, and that was it. We didn't keep bringing babies into the world who we couldn't provide for. My dad worked; my mother was home for me and my sister at 3:00 when we came home from school. We'd complain about something we thought our teacher had done and our parents didn't want to hear it. We were taught respect for adults.
We are sick of this. Yes our forebearers had their problems before coming here but we didn't use it as an excuse to riot. Nobody wants to hear the truth but the truth has to be told and smetimes the truth isn't pleasant to behold.
130
The statistics don't lie, but it kind of negates some of the "prejudiced" argument if the officer was also a man of color, doesn't it? In addition, when can the dialogue be about people just abiding by the law enforcement officer's commands while they try to do their very dangerous jobs? It might alleviate a lot of the problems. Especially when the federal government's findings again and again are that the officers are doing their jobs.
154
We all know that the members of any police department are trained to behave this way, by their instructor, and by their colleagues. There is incredible peer pressure. NYT has an article about this, today. WHY would they give this comment a "pick?"
6
No it doesn't. The issue is policing. It's very difficult for black officers to buck the trend. They need backup, too. They're ALL taught to view blacks negatively, as suspects.
Black peoples aren't given the benefit of the doubt. Our children are shot for playing with toys because they're viewed as older and dangerous.
Black people do not imagine they're treated differently. It's a fact.
Black peoples aren't given the benefit of the doubt. Our children are shot for playing with toys because they're viewed as older and dangerous.
Black people do not imagine they're treated differently. It's a fact.
4
Well, no it doesn't. Some of the most profound racism in America comes not from biased people acting one by one, but from institutions. In this case, the officer was acting in the prevailing mode of his department.
2
I'm done trying to understand white progressives and black people who make excuses for behavior like this.
The perpetrator was armed, he refused to drop his weapon, he was fleeing into a residential area, the cop who shot him was black, and the perpetrator was on video - turning towards the cop - when he was shot. Furthermore, the perpetrator has an astonishingly long criminal record, was carrying a stolen gun, and his social media is filled with violent images. And yet his sisters and supporters say he was a "non-violent" individual, who only carried the weapon for protection. Please.
At this point, black activists and their white enablers probably should turn to violent protest. With the track they've been on, they have surely alienated any and all moderates who would've been essential to helping them win any political, electoral victory. So they may as well riot, burn things, and attack the police. And if governors need to send in tanks and the National Guard to crush them, we - the moderates - will support these governors with votes.
As to the white progressives who make excuses for this behavior, they should move into these communities and play a more active role in "helping." Housing stock there is dirt cheap, and not because the police are "harassing" the kind, law-abiding community members. What's stopping them? Racism? Fear of black people? Their hypocrisy on racial justice is staggering in this regard.
The perpetrator was armed, he refused to drop his weapon, he was fleeing into a residential area, the cop who shot him was black, and the perpetrator was on video - turning towards the cop - when he was shot. Furthermore, the perpetrator has an astonishingly long criminal record, was carrying a stolen gun, and his social media is filled with violent images. And yet his sisters and supporters say he was a "non-violent" individual, who only carried the weapon for protection. Please.
At this point, black activists and their white enablers probably should turn to violent protest. With the track they've been on, they have surely alienated any and all moderates who would've been essential to helping them win any political, electoral victory. So they may as well riot, burn things, and attack the police. And if governors need to send in tanks and the National Guard to crush them, we - the moderates - will support these governors with votes.
As to the white progressives who make excuses for this behavior, they should move into these communities and play a more active role in "helping." Housing stock there is dirt cheap, and not because the police are "harassing" the kind, law-abiding community members. What's stopping them? Racism? Fear of black people? Their hypocrisy on racial justice is staggering in this regard.
370
Name one prominent activist who has stated that the riots were ok. If you can't, then your entire post has no validity.
8
You summed it up perfectly.
7
@Ben G
I agree 100%! There is no doubt that, once again, the evidence will exonerate the police. And the white progressives are completely hypocritical, since they demonize the police while ignoring the rock-throwing and other violence of the protesters.
I agree 100%! There is no doubt that, once again, the evidence will exonerate the police. And the white progressives are completely hypocritical, since they demonize the police while ignoring the rock-throwing and other violence of the protesters.
11
Milwaukee is the poster child for a classic rust belt city. Unlike Detroit, the politicians running Milwaukee were and are not crooks. There used to be plenty of good blue collar jobs that provided very good incomes.
Friends of my family had a large metal fabrication plant that built bodies for huge mining track hoes that were so large they had to be assembled on site. Caterpillar bought the track hoe manufacturer and wanted to expand in Milwaukee with their own brand of track hoes. Fabrication of these giant machines required highly skilled welders because they would have to weld together large counter weights that could only be moved around on railroads.
After trying to hire more of these highly skilled welders - none were to be found in Milwaukee. So the city government and Cat agreed to fund a large welding school to train these workers. They got almost no interest and Cat then extended this offer to other cities/states. Well Texas has lots of very good welders but not of this type. When this offer was made - lots of Texans said yes and so Cat built a new facility in TX.
IMHO blacks have faced so many years of no jobs in Milwaukee and with drugs so much a part of their lives for so many years, getting blacks back into mainstream society will be extremely difficult.
I still have family living in the Milwaukee area and they have seen no changes.
Friends of my family had a large metal fabrication plant that built bodies for huge mining track hoes that were so large they had to be assembled on site. Caterpillar bought the track hoe manufacturer and wanted to expand in Milwaukee with their own brand of track hoes. Fabrication of these giant machines required highly skilled welders because they would have to weld together large counter weights that could only be moved around on railroads.
After trying to hire more of these highly skilled welders - none were to be found in Milwaukee. So the city government and Cat agreed to fund a large welding school to train these workers. They got almost no interest and Cat then extended this offer to other cities/states. Well Texas has lots of very good welders but not of this type. When this offer was made - lots of Texans said yes and so Cat built a new facility in TX.
IMHO blacks have faced so many years of no jobs in Milwaukee and with drugs so much a part of their lives for so many years, getting blacks back into mainstream society will be extremely difficult.
I still have family living in the Milwaukee area and they have seen no changes.
34
Your narrative seems like a large Trump-esque lie. In fact, Caterpillar moved operations to the Southwest in order to be closer to their customer base in that region. Also, Arizona gave them major tax breaks. And it was NOT due to a lack of engineering talent in Milwaukee: http://archive.jsonline.com/business/caterpillar-to-move-mining-and-tech...
1
Per the story -- "a police officer fatally shot a black man on Saturday — ". Could also be written 'a black police officer fatally shot a man on Saturday - '. But that would not fit the pre-determined narrative you folks wish to weave. Keep tryin'....
112
@Area Code 651
Race only applies when it supports the liberal narrative
Race only applies when it supports the liberal narrative
12
Black people definitely do seem to be harassed more often than white folks by the police
The problem is that Black folks pick some of the worst examples of police violence to make a fuss over.
The vast majority of Americans are not going to be sympathetic to a career criminal, with a stolen gun used in a burglary, that ends up getting shot by a Black police officer because he pointed said gun at the officer.
Burning and looting your own neighborhood over such an event also does not garner tremendous amounts of support either. They deserve those free bottles of ripple from the looted liquor store, why?
The problem is that Black folks pick some of the worst examples of police violence to make a fuss over.
The vast majority of Americans are not going to be sympathetic to a career criminal, with a stolen gun used in a burglary, that ends up getting shot by a Black police officer because he pointed said gun at the officer.
Burning and looting your own neighborhood over such an event also does not garner tremendous amounts of support either. They deserve those free bottles of ripple from the looted liquor store, why?
122
So the response to this is for citizens to burn down buildings and businesses in their own community?
Sorry, I don't get that.
Sorry, I don't get that.
83
Frustration often causes irrational behavior.
3
Mike:
They may be very, very, very frustrated but they do NOT have the right to destroy someone else's property. Every rational person understands this. Only someone who has zero respect for anyone else would support this behavior.
They may be very, very, very frustrated but they do NOT have the right to destroy someone else's property. Every rational person understands this. Only someone who has zero respect for anyone else would support this behavior.
7
When people are given things for 'free', they do not value or respect them.
Human nature.
Human nature.
6
Taking into account the longstanding racial tensions in its domestic scenario, seems quite unexplained how the U.S. can still show itself as a world watchdog on human rights issues, including assuming a role of lecturer about it on countries, specially those who are the ideological rivals. Beyond being a brazen behavior, it's clearly deprive itself from credibility.
3
An armed criminal is pursued and shot by a policeman doing his job. Then we have riots, burning other people's buildings and cars, robbing stores, and we say oh it's society's fault. I think not.
174
And the same "protesters" will make the news next week, whining because business will not locate in their area.
18
even worse, that its due to "racism" and implicitly that euro americans are to blame. Racism at its best, albeit not of the type the press in America likes to talk about.
6
I'm sure Scott Walker has done everything in his power to acerbate racial tensions in Wisconsin!
He is anti-education and he governs using the Romney formula: Always work to ensure that the top 1% are taken care of and the system of White privilege, preserved!
He is anti-education and he governs using the Romney formula: Always work to ensure that the top 1% are taken care of and the system of White privilege, preserved!
12
@Richard Marcley
Did you know Milwaukee has not had a republican Mayor for 100 years? But I guess your knowledge is to limited to know that!
Did you know Milwaukee has not had a republican Mayor for 100 years? But I guess your knowledge is to limited to know that!
10
The victim was armed with a gun. Is it never ok for a police officer to defend himself? Should he just let himself get shot in the name of "social justice?"
146
This very thing happened Saturday night in Georgia. A white police officer responded to a call about a black man with a gun in public. The officer got out of his car and engaged the man in conversation. The man promptly executed the officer.
Of course, you won't see this story splashed on the front pages of any mainstream newspaper. Nope, it doesn't fit their political propaganda narrative, so they choose not to cover it.
Sad times for America.
Of course, you won't see this story splashed on the front pages of any mainstream newspaper. Nope, it doesn't fit their political propaganda narrative, so they choose not to cover it.
Sad times for America.
37
Milwaukee and NYC have comparable segregation in public schools. Both cities have been dominated by Democrats for decades. Although correlation is not causation, perhaps someone could investigate whether there is a relationship between Democrat leadership and marginalization of black communities.
41
Mayors Giuliani and Bloomberg are republicans....a total of more than 16 yrs.
I would not call that decades of Democrats.
I would not call that decades of Democrats.
4
If you want there to be a Republican mayor of Milwaukee, first you have to find one who appeals to Milwaukee's heavily Democratic electorate. Since Wisconsin Republicans love to boast about who can slap Milwaukee around the hardest, I wish you luck in finding one.
2
As you scan this article you can change the name of the city and the story would be essentially the same. Milwaukee, Chicago, Cleveland, Philadelphia, all have black populations bottled up in ghettos, all suffered extreme industrial decline and all have double digit unemployment in black communities, underfunded schools, no recreational facilities and extreme poverty.
Of course there are the exceptions and we continue to make a very big deal about them, but each of these and other urban areas are the result of selective austerity programs imposed by state and federal politicians.
This is what neoliberal economics looks like on the ground. During this period of decline enormous wealth has been accumulated at the top as has the majority of our average increase in income. None of this is by accident and the role of the police has changed from simply protecting life and property. They are now supposed to keep a lid on these restive masses while the courts push them through a conveyor belt to the prison system. Ironically all those unemployed are now employed in prison, but none of those jobs are available when they get out.
It's just a matter of time before these pots boil over. And while racism is a driving factor behind these policies, we have to recognize that most of our big cities have had or do have black mayors and council members. They are powerless in the face of austerity and too often make excuses for a system that will not support the basics of modern life.
Of course there are the exceptions and we continue to make a very big deal about them, but each of these and other urban areas are the result of selective austerity programs imposed by state and federal politicians.
This is what neoliberal economics looks like on the ground. During this period of decline enormous wealth has been accumulated at the top as has the majority of our average increase in income. None of this is by accident and the role of the police has changed from simply protecting life and property. They are now supposed to keep a lid on these restive masses while the courts push them through a conveyor belt to the prison system. Ironically all those unemployed are now employed in prison, but none of those jobs are available when they get out.
It's just a matter of time before these pots boil over. And while racism is a driving factor behind these policies, we have to recognize that most of our big cities have had or do have black mayors and council members. They are powerless in the face of austerity and too often make excuses for a system that will not support the basics of modern life.
49
Neoliberal economics/politics! Plus age-old racist legacies. Plus ghetto-dysfunctionalities. The young man killed, running away and not dropping the stolen gun, a prime example of a criminal who is not a community hero, but one forgiven and eulogized by an angry, left behind despairing community with senseless self-destructive rioting. Remember notoriously women-drugging Bill Cosby when he scolded the black parents and community for not doing their job in raising their children. It did not go well for him this moralizing high route. And now he has lost all credibility. But the downtrodden poor need to come to terms with their own problems and wrongs and take to task those who take advantage of their human decency, aside from the racism that impacts them from the outside.
1
Buses leave on the hour. No one is bottled up anywhere in America. If you have a basic high school diploma, are not encumbered already by 2 or 3 babies, not a drug or alcohol addict, and are willing to show up on time to do a decent day's work, there remains there same opportunities that all Boomers of all races faced in the crummy endless inflationary recession 1970s. Getting up off the couch and not blaming everyone else is key, as is not already being a violent felon at age 18.
2
The tone of some of these comments strikes me as, well...tone deaf.
Milwaukee has race problems because it is so segregated. There is no interaction of communities to work to make things better. No one cares what goes on in “the core” (as it is referred to here) because they long ago moved to the suburbs or “safe” neighborhoods--white neighborhoods. I am not from here and I continue, even after 25 years, to be shocked at the things I hear people say here about black people. Racism is freely expressed here and the n-word thrives. Hispanics don’t fare much better I’m afraid.
Milwaukee has race problems because it is so segregated. There is no interaction of communities to work to make things better. No one cares what goes on in “the core” (as it is referred to here) because they long ago moved to the suburbs or “safe” neighborhoods--white neighborhoods. I am not from here and I continue, even after 25 years, to be shocked at the things I hear people say here about black people. Racism is freely expressed here and the n-word thrives. Hispanics don’t fare much better I’m afraid.
28
Why are whites comfortable living amongst Asians?
63
Because they don't get robbed and murdered doing so.
8
In Milwaukee, they aren't. Hence, the mass shooting at the Sikh temple a few years ago.
3
This activist in Baton Rouge implored the UN to pay more attention to race relations and rights of blacks in the US after the shooting of Alton Sterling. The UN has actually been paying attention and making statements, despite the dominance of the US at the UN
http://passblue.com/2016/08/08/this-american-wants-the-un-to-pay-more-at...
http://passblue.com/2016/08/08/this-american-wants-the-un-to-pay-more-at...
4
Since the UN does little if nothing about much worse situations in Africa and other places I seriously doubt their ability to do anything in the US.
Plus we in the US would never allow the UN to exert any control over us. We barely tolerate their building in New York (send it to Brussels) and especially US membership in the organization itself.
Plus we in the US would never allow the UN to exert any control over us. We barely tolerate their building in New York (send it to Brussels) and especially US membership in the organization itself.
4
Ironically, Milwaukee is the largest American city ever to have a socialist as mayor -- in fact several of them who administrated effectively and for public well-being from the 1920s to '60s -- but that socialism, while it created a great city with wonderful public services and parks back then, was a white-man's socialism that was created and supported by German-Am. workers who even discriminated against the Poles in the city. Being a socialist doesnt mean you aren't a racist unfortunately. Now the descendants of those German socialist live in comfy Waukesha or Cedarburg and vote for Walker and Ron Johnson.
34
Every citizen has the right to vote. If people are unhappy with their elected officials, they need to organize and elect their own representatives.
That would require work, not rioting.
That would require work, not rioting.
34
But the majority white-flight rural and suburban voters in WI are now consistently voting Republican/Libertarian for governor and for the Senate even though it has adversely impacted the overall economy there. And, hey, urban blight and state funding cutbacks for schools, infrastructure, etc., in the big city doesn't affect them, right?
6
Much of the white and suburban white-flight vote has been bought and paid for by the Koch Bros. Voting against one's best interests is just as bad as not voting at all.
Unless the GOP changes its tune, African Americans will only find hope with the Dems, maybe. HRC is the best GOP candidate in my lifetime.
But my point is that if people are unhappy with their politicians, they need to organize and vote. That's pretty much how America started and was the Genesis for the Revolutionary War.
But I'll take non-voting citizens to citizens who destroy their own communities as an act of protest. Sorry, but that is just dumb.
Unless the GOP changes its tune, African Americans will only find hope with the Dems, maybe. HRC is the best GOP candidate in my lifetime.
But my point is that if people are unhappy with their politicians, they need to organize and vote. That's pretty much how America started and was the Genesis for the Revolutionary War.
But I'll take non-voting citizens to citizens who destroy their own communities as an act of protest. Sorry, but that is just dumb.
"True compassion is more than flinging a coin to a beggar; it comes to see that an edifice which produces beggars needs restructuring" - MLK
Since those words were said, NOTHING has changed.
Martin Luther King quickly learned that the Civil Rights Act/Voting Rights Act of '65 were merely legal victories and that the real struggle was economic. King, after organizing in Chicago and after the watts riot, saw that what good does integration do when you can't afford a sandwhich, when there are no jobs, when they live in delapidated housing? King connected the dots: you cannot have racial justice without economic justice . . .that within the exploitative capitalist economic system, the poor of ALL COLORS and the oppressed will continue to suffer.
He confided to his staff "we're treading in very dangerous waters, because it really means that we are saying that something is wrong with the economic system of our nation . . .it means that something is wrong with capitalism". King was a democratic socialist that demanded a massive revolution of values, a massive redistribution of wealth (democratic socialism). Instead of just "socialism for the rich, and rugged individualism for the poor".
For these comments post "I have a dream", MLK became marginalized by all: the media, the white and black liberal elite, and of course racists. He lamented shortly before his death whether black america was simply integrating into a burning house . . I'm afraid he was right
Since those words were said, NOTHING has changed.
Martin Luther King quickly learned that the Civil Rights Act/Voting Rights Act of '65 were merely legal victories and that the real struggle was economic. King, after organizing in Chicago and after the watts riot, saw that what good does integration do when you can't afford a sandwhich, when there are no jobs, when they live in delapidated housing? King connected the dots: you cannot have racial justice without economic justice . . .that within the exploitative capitalist economic system, the poor of ALL COLORS and the oppressed will continue to suffer.
He confided to his staff "we're treading in very dangerous waters, because it really means that we are saying that something is wrong with the economic system of our nation . . .it means that something is wrong with capitalism". King was a democratic socialist that demanded a massive revolution of values, a massive redistribution of wealth (democratic socialism). Instead of just "socialism for the rich, and rugged individualism for the poor".
For these comments post "I have a dream", MLK became marginalized by all: the media, the white and black liberal elite, and of course racists. He lamented shortly before his death whether black america was simply integrating into a burning house . . I'm afraid he was right
18
Since those words were uttered, we have spent trillions of dollars trying to remedy the damage which slavery and American apartheid did to the African-American community. We have created public programs which favor African-Americans in housing, education and employment (I support these programs). We have created majority African-American municipal administrations in cities all over America. We have elected African-American mayors, governors, senators and Presidents.
But we haven't made it legal to point a loaded gun at a cop. The struggle continues...
But we haven't made it legal to point a loaded gun at a cop. The struggle continues...
4
Just because the Reverend Doctor Martin Luther King, Jr said it, doesn't mean it is true.
Another "successful" Democratically controlled city. Black cop, Black victim, and "Black lives matter" still goes on a rampage destroying the city. One cannot call this a racial attack.
140
Right on.
13
Inequality steeped in racism seem to be at the very heart of this tragedy, and all the others like it.
4
What would the reaction be if the black officer had shot and killed a white criminal? Rioting in the street? I think not.
10
I can't believe that I am writing this, but I am very tired of the culture if victim-hood that is pervading our black communities. African-American neighborhoods must either learn to police themselves or accept the "intrusion" of the regional constabulary. You cannot keep ignoring, accepting and even protecting hooligans out of "loyalty". The main difference, as I see it, between black neighborhoods and any other racial area of any town is that the others report criminals among them. There are rare exceptions, of course, but pretty much every other race does police themselves and do not "coddle" miscreants among them.
The police cannot be expected to force good behavior from the outside. Any change for the good must start from the inside. I cannot be expected to make someone else soothe my anger and make me behave. This is and has always been up to me.
Look, I understand that these neighborhoods are so far gone that it seems almost impossible to rehabilitate or escape them, but rioting and destroying the businesses that service your populace is only going to multiply the misery and increase suspicion of conspiracy. The trouble is that the problems are not really from the outside - they start at home.
The police cannot be expected to force good behavior from the outside. Any change for the good must start from the inside. I cannot be expected to make someone else soothe my anger and make me behave. This is and has always been up to me.
Look, I understand that these neighborhoods are so far gone that it seems almost impossible to rehabilitate or escape them, but rioting and destroying the businesses that service your populace is only going to multiply the misery and increase suspicion of conspiracy. The trouble is that the problems are not really from the outside - they start at home.
228
What would you expect of a society run by 4 year olds? How about a society run by 8 year olds? When the backbone of a society is matriarchs who became mothers at the age of 12, what would you expect of that society? We've had generations now who come to physical maturity without ever seeing someone of mental maturity.
36
Blue state:
Explains the complete disregard for authority. Good luck trying to police or educate people who have no concept of it.
Explains the complete disregard for authority. Good luck trying to police or educate people who have no concept of it.
5
I'm from Milwaukee, and since the 1960s I've consistently heard -- all around me -- horrible racist slurs against blacks from otherwise "nice" and well educated whites. The racism runs so deep that blacks are shut out of jobs or hope for changing their lives. If they do get a job in the service industry, for instance, they can expect "the sneer" from the whites they serve. (My own family is among these racists.) Imagine how angry you would feel after a lifetime of being pre-judged, with little hope for prospects of advancement? The recent police shooting might have been warranted, but the riot was about decades of Milwaukee whites' systemic hatred and exclusion of the African American community.
46
The problem is America seems to have abandoned Dr. King's solution of integration. Integration is the combining of separate components into "one" (i.e. an integrated circuit combines separate circuits into one circuit. Dr. King's choice of the word integration indicates he was advocating a monocultural solution whereby we would not be identifying ourselves or other people by the color of our skin but by the contents of our hearts. The only real solution that will work is for all Americans to join together into one mainstream American culture.
By promoting a multicultural solution (i.e. respect for separate but equal cultures) liberals are promoting segregation. Google "separate but equal" and one will find reference to Plessy vs Ferguson which was the legal justification for Jim Crow segregation. An over-emphasis on diversity as opposed to unity is creating division and animosity.
Black citizens need to consider the traditional American solution of assimilation. Assimilation leads to Dr. King's solution of integration. During Dr. King's lifetime assimilation was not an option for Black citizens but it is now.
Following Dr. King's solution will not be easy; it will require a heroic commitment to change that may take several generations for fruition. Dr. King's challenge demands following the same path as previous generations of immigrants whose works made America great.
By promoting a multicultural solution (i.e. respect for separate but equal cultures) liberals are promoting segregation. Google "separate but equal" and one will find reference to Plessy vs Ferguson which was the legal justification for Jim Crow segregation. An over-emphasis on diversity as opposed to unity is creating division and animosity.
Black citizens need to consider the traditional American solution of assimilation. Assimilation leads to Dr. King's solution of integration. During Dr. King's lifetime assimilation was not an option for Black citizens but it is now.
Following Dr. King's solution will not be easy; it will require a heroic commitment to change that may take several generations for fruition. Dr. King's challenge demands following the same path as previous generations of immigrants whose works made America great.
24
While "black citizens need to consider the traditional American solution of assimilation," doesn't the white citizenry, the ones with the power (bankers, lawyers, lawmakers, etc), need to join them in making that happen? My hope is you are not only laying this at the feet of African-Americans.
4
As Americans we are free to reject the multi-cultural if we so choose in our own lives.
14
"By promoting a multicultural solution (i.e. respect for separate but equal cultures) liberals are promoting segregation... Black citizens need to consider the traditional American solution of assimilation."
Finally, someone points not just to the cause of the problem but to its solution as well.
Finally, someone points not just to the cause of the problem but to its solution as well.
9
This is a very accurate depiction of life in my city. I live 10 miles from Sherman Park far away from the activities of Saturday night. I have other observations about the lack of progress in my city.
Milwaukee faces open hostility from its suburbs and outlying counties. We have a police union and a county sheriff that feeds that hostility with horror stories and Trump-like diatribes. I cannot be as afraid of Milwaukee police as a black man is but I have doubts that some of them really care about my safety either.
I have faith in Milwaukee's local government. We are struggling despite many obstacles thrown in front by our state government. But we are scrapping for every inch of progress. What I wish for every citizen of Milwaukee to understand is that we have to stop this out state hostility NOW! We have to vote in November with 100% turnout period. That kind of turnout should tip the balance of power in Wisconsin. It will not improve anything but it will STOP this hostility.
Milwaukee faces open hostility from its suburbs and outlying counties. We have a police union and a county sheriff that feeds that hostility with horror stories and Trump-like diatribes. I cannot be as afraid of Milwaukee police as a black man is but I have doubts that some of them really care about my safety either.
I have faith in Milwaukee's local government. We are struggling despite many obstacles thrown in front by our state government. But we are scrapping for every inch of progress. What I wish for every citizen of Milwaukee to understand is that we have to stop this out state hostility NOW! We have to vote in November with 100% turnout period. That kind of turnout should tip the balance of power in Wisconsin. It will not improve anything but it will STOP this hostility.
28
It's interesting that Milwaukee and Wisconsin have been governed by Democrats for decades, but you blame the state, which has had a majority for less than a decade. Perhaps the Democrats in Milwaukee created the problems? It's hard to imagine that the "state hostility" is the root cause of anything since the problems are fifty years old.
20
What exactly is your point? Instead of making this about partisan politics, how about one or both sides of the aisle try to actually solve these problems?
2
This issue cannot be placed at the feet of any one party. The educational system is breaking down and I would actually put it at the feet of the Walker administration. There are clearly issues that the Mayor of Milwaukee has not been able to address effectively, I don't know why.
But the real culprit? Jobs going overseas in manufacturing, and nothing to replace it with. This disproportionately impacted black families in Milwaukee, and likely in other places. Black people need to become entrepreneurs. And wages have to increase so that more people have disposable incomes. That means that the two tales of economic prosperity of the 1% and the decline of everyone else into "SQUEEZED BEYOND BELIEF" class has to stop. That means, increase taxes on the super wealthy, and use them to pay for schools and entrepreneurship training.
But the real culprit? Jobs going overseas in manufacturing, and nothing to replace it with. This disproportionately impacted black families in Milwaukee, and likely in other places. Black people need to become entrepreneurs. And wages have to increase so that more people have disposable incomes. That means that the two tales of economic prosperity of the 1% and the decline of everyone else into "SQUEEZED BEYOND BELIEF" class has to stop. That means, increase taxes on the super wealthy, and use them to pay for schools and entrepreneurship training.
4
Segregation in Wisconsin has been its trademark, especially with an extreme right-wing governor. Walker has been disaster but his cracker keep him in power with the help of the evil FOK Brothers and FOK News. Does anyone in his right mind expect a different result?
8
The left-wing democrats seem to have created quite a mess. True to form, the republicans receive all the blame.
Do democrats EVER take responsibility for the failure of their policies? Is it any surprise their constituents also refuse to take responsibility and also blame others (ex., whites) for all their problems.
Democrats have become the party of blame. They have completely lost touch with the concept of "personal responsibility", which is a disaster for any society.
Do democrats EVER take responsibility for the failure of their policies? Is it any surprise their constituents also refuse to take responsibility and also blame others (ex., whites) for all their problems.
Democrats have become the party of blame. They have completely lost touch with the concept of "personal responsibility", which is a disaster for any society.
6
Are there any circumstances in 2016 where a black man, committing a crime, shot by police would result in other than a protest, candle light vigil followed by the now traditional riot? Where is the bar? Is there one? Is there any depraved and deranged soul, who would not be described as "he was such a good boy?"
Where is the bar?
Where is the bar?
112
Agree fully. Yes, there is police racism. But in a case like this, or Ferguson, or others the victims were CRIMINALS and the cops faced danger or were trying to safeguard the community and acted appropriately, it seems. Why the rioting and outrage in these specific cases - should the cops simply ignore criminal behavior...is this result that rioters want?
40
Their behavior defies logic. BLM, If they want to be taken seriously, needs to speak to this, and loudly. And other black activists also. Otherwise, the rest of us will simply feel scorn for this behavior and excuse making. Nothing will improve.
11
"Where is the bar?"
The bar is so low you'd have to jump up to jump down low enough to see it.
The bar is so low you'd have to jump up to jump down low enough to see it.
1
Decades of destruction of our industrial jobs, accelerated by the globalists over the past eight years, left youths with no jobs out prospect of work, and combined with a burgeoning welfare system that encouraged and subsidized the break up of the family, and parental teaching and supervision of kids. Predictable result of liberal social policies, and globalist deindustrialization.
17
"destruction of our industrial jobs, accelerated by the globalists over the past eight years"
More correctly: accelerated by the cost of labor. Jobs move to where the labor is cheaper, until automation gets cheaper than labor. That is happening now. Check out any major manufacturer and watch the robots in action. Each of those robots can work 3 shifts a day, every day, without so much as a smoke break. These jobs are never coming back, regardless of what any politician tells you. Watch this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgExvIUYg5w) and you'll start to understand why it would be insane for a modern business to use uneducated and unskilled humans to do this work. So what are we going to do with these people? No one has a clue. And if you think the unrest is bad in the segregated neighborhoods of the USA, just wait until half a billion Chinese workers find themselves replaced by robots in those factories.
More correctly: accelerated by the cost of labor. Jobs move to where the labor is cheaper, until automation gets cheaper than labor. That is happening now. Check out any major manufacturer and watch the robots in action. Each of those robots can work 3 shifts a day, every day, without so much as a smoke break. These jobs are never coming back, regardless of what any politician tells you. Watch this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgExvIUYg5w) and you'll start to understand why it would be insane for a modern business to use uneducated and unskilled humans to do this work. So what are we going to do with these people? No one has a clue. And if you think the unrest is bad in the segregated neighborhoods of the USA, just wait until half a billion Chinese workers find themselves replaced by robots in those factories.
2
Milwaukee is, like Detroit, also locked in a ring of lily white and very conservative suburbs that have systematically undermined the whole city politically and economically. It is no coincidence Scott Walker was County Executive of Milwaukee County, and the adjacent counties are solid Ted Cruz country and known for the hostility of right-wing media figures.
20
@ David:
Actually the ring suburbs are not "lily white". And maybe some of those lily white suburbs just want to emulate states like Maine (1.1% African American population).
Actually the ring suburbs are not "lily white". And maybe some of those lily white suburbs just want to emulate states like Maine (1.1% African American population).
7
No, unless by "undermined" you mean "provided a better alternative."
I love Milwaukee, and spend a lot of time commuting through it. The neighborhood of Burleigh and Sherman has "good bones," so to speak - huge potential, lots of large old houses, wide boulevards... but, it has poverty, crime and blight. So, nobody invests in the housing stock, and nobody moves in to "Century City" (an effort to turn an abandoned industrial tract into a business hub). Crime is the problem. Crime causes poverty.
I love Milwaukee, and spend a lot of time commuting through it. The neighborhood of Burleigh and Sherman has "good bones," so to speak - huge potential, lots of large old houses, wide boulevards... but, it has poverty, crime and blight. So, nobody invests in the housing stock, and nobody moves in to "Century City" (an effort to turn an abandoned industrial tract into a business hub). Crime is the problem. Crime causes poverty.
8
"They settled there as the city’s manufacturing economy began to dwindle;" and in Baltimore, Detroit, Chicago, Buffalo, etc. When will the nation's leaders do something to protect our manufacturing industries? There's no fixing these black community's severe problems without the event of jobs - meaningful jobs - the ones that once upon a time lifted millions, white and black, into stable employment, marriage, education and enjoyable lives.
What has happened to America - and what will continue to happen - is not worth the price of a cheap toaster made in China and sold at WalMart.
What has happened to America - and what will continue to happen - is not worth the price of a cheap toaster made in China and sold at WalMart.
75
You are SO RIGHT! Good-paying jobs and good schools are what's needed. Now!
So very true. The advocates of globalism never factor this variable into their equations
2
@Jon: Yes, the manufacturing sector drove the post war economic boom. It wasn't perfect but many previously marginalized citizens enjoyed some prosperity.
However this model has all but been written off, even by the most "progressive" writers on the pages of the NY Times.
However this model has all but been written off, even by the most "progressive" writers on the pages of the NY Times.
Where has Obama been?
23
Oh, please!
If Obama did come out and criticize Scott Walker and the system of white privelige, you surely would call him a "racist decider" and worse!
If Obama did come out and criticize Scott Walker and the system of white privelige, you surely would call him a "racist decider" and worse!
1
Trying to improve situations like this while your side blocks him at every turn.
5
President Obama is the executive of the federal government for the 50 states. He does not hold the chairmanship of the republican governors' association, President Obama is not governor of Wisconsin, not mayor of Milwaukee, nor a member of the city council, not the chief of police, nor on the north side neighborhood watch. President Obama has been doing his job. President Obama has spoken and advocated for the value of education and civility. He has shown the way -- education, self-discipline, and persistence.
2
In my mind one of the most blatant examples of the abject racism in southern Wisconsin was the rejection of a light rail project from Milwaukee to the western suburbs (read Waukesha County) by our radical conservative Governor Walker. His message: lift yourself up, but I won't help you with affordable transportation. The dirty little secret in Wisconsin Is the suburbs west of Milwaukee will do whatever they can to stay Lilly white.
47
Same pattern in suburban Detroit.
5
Z:
Also, when you consider that the Talgo corporation was going to refit the old AO Smith plant on 35th and Capitol (about 10 blocks north of the Sherman Park neighborhood) and create hundreds if not thousands of new manufacturing jobs on the north side building the trains, one might say that the governor's refusal of the money was almost criminal.
Also, when you consider that the Talgo corporation was going to refit the old AO Smith plant on 35th and Capitol (about 10 blocks north of the Sherman Park neighborhood) and create hundreds if not thousands of new manufacturing jobs on the north side building the trains, one might say that the governor's refusal of the money was almost criminal.
5
It would be cheaper to buy cars for the residents of Milwaukee than to build a rail project.
6
just watch the show COPS. it is all obvious and apparent but no one does anything because you can change policy all you want but you cant easily change peoples opinions and hearts. you cant teach an old dog new tricks. change needs to start from within the PDs.
8
It's NOT simply "disrespect that many black people say the police show them" as the New York Times reports when MPD officers have been convicted of a pattern of illegal body cavity searches of black people.
16
I understand the argument that the riots and protests need to be seen in the context of decades long frustration at injustice but that doesn't make it any less wrong or counter productive. BLM and any leaders of the black community would be doing the whole country a great service by condemning the violence unreservedly .
95
The statistics are the same in so many cities.
Everyone blames racism, discrimination,and lack of jobs.
What is the common denominator? Let's see the statistics on teen pregnancy. Let's see the statistics on single parent homes. I will bet that the man who was shot had no father and was born to a teenage mother
Everyone blames racism, discrimination,and lack of jobs.
What is the common denominator? Let's see the statistics on teen pregnancy. Let's see the statistics on single parent homes. I will bet that the man who was shot had no father and was born to a teenage mother
127
You don't think that teen pregnancy and single parent homes are the product of all the problems (underfunded and segregated schools, lack of job opportunities, etc.) addressed in this article? Because they are.
And for the record: teen birth rates have been on the decline for about 20 years.
And for the record: teen birth rates have been on the decline for about 20 years.
13
No, it is extremely unlikely that the schools there are "underfunded". People with relevant experiences realize that many inner city schools are grossly overfunded relative to the most meaningful requisite - a cultural committed in learning. My city's school system for years has had per capita funding at relatively high levels (compared with neighboring suburban systems).
Try finding an inner city school system with a large African American student population that does not have poor academics, big behavioral problems, and otherwise surprisingly good basketball programs.
It may be heretical for liberals to acknowledge, but culture is a HUGE factor (and keeping troubled kids in schools is a disaster).
Try finding an inner city school system with a large African American student population that does not have poor academics, big behavioral problems, and otherwise surprisingly good basketball programs.
It may be heretical for liberals to acknowledge, but culture is a HUGE factor (and keeping troubled kids in schools is a disaster).
14
Stereotype much?
1
What's the point of this story?Unless the black community corrects their own major problems such as unwed teen pregnancies,massive school dropout rates,fatherless families,etc.;then these problems will never go away.If blacks are so very unhappy in Milwaukee,move to another city.
162
Blame the victims.
10
The racism in this comments thread is blatant as it is in Milwaukee. The point of the story, Bud, is that systemic racism generates and perpetuates poverty. Where is your evidence that the problems you cite are prevalent in Milwaukee?
10
Garak, The victim was holding a loaded gun. Would you feel it fairer if the policeman was the victim?
9
An armed criminal shot by an on-duty officer....I don't see the rupture of the social fabric that so many seem to see.
The video shows the criminal turning towards the officer with a GUN IN HAND. Investigation of the gun showed that the criminal's gun was carrying 23 rounds of ammo. That is about 13 MORE rounds than the officer carried. That is more rounds than if TWO officers were chasing the criminal.
The criminal was running into a residential neighborhood. The choice was clear and the outcome perfect. The reaction in Milwaukee is criminal.
The video shows the criminal turning towards the officer with a GUN IN HAND. Investigation of the gun showed that the criminal's gun was carrying 23 rounds of ammo. That is about 13 MORE rounds than the officer carried. That is more rounds than if TWO officers were chasing the criminal.
The criminal was running into a residential neighborhood. The choice was clear and the outcome perfect. The reaction in Milwaukee is criminal.
253
I don’t question this specific shooting so much as the overall pattern of segregation that exists in Milwaukee--which is what this article tries to address.
15
You have stated the obvious...until I read your comment I was wondering what world are we living in.
5
Right, except you, like many others, are pointing to a single incident and failing to acknowledge "the systemic problems that have so many black people feeling hopeless," as elucidated in the article. It's this narrow sociological view that inhibits any meaningful analysis of how and why black citizens in America are in the desperate positions they often find themselves in.
Given the long-standing tensions between police and disenfranchised black communities, it should come as no shock that the victim of this shooting fled upon being pulled over by the officers. To imagine that Sylville Smith ran into a "residential neighborhood" (as if all neighborhoods weren't "residential" to begin with) with violent intentions, without even the mere thought that his life may end like the hundreds of black folk who've perished at the hands of police just this year, represents a frightening lack of empathy for Milwaukee's historically marginalized.
Let's not also fail to examine the multiple instances whereby white individuals (and even large "protest" groups) have brazenly marched into public spheres armed to the teeth with guns and symbols of a nationalistic America and return home later that evening, unscathed, to dinner with their families.
It's hard for those not constantly immersed in the daily struggles of the black oppressed to recognize Smith as just another human being trying to simply get by in one of America's most unequal cities, where "crime" is necessary just to survive.
Given the long-standing tensions between police and disenfranchised black communities, it should come as no shock that the victim of this shooting fled upon being pulled over by the officers. To imagine that Sylville Smith ran into a "residential neighborhood" (as if all neighborhoods weren't "residential" to begin with) with violent intentions, without even the mere thought that his life may end like the hundreds of black folk who've perished at the hands of police just this year, represents a frightening lack of empathy for Milwaukee's historically marginalized.
Let's not also fail to examine the multiple instances whereby white individuals (and even large "protest" groups) have brazenly marched into public spheres armed to the teeth with guns and symbols of a nationalistic America and return home later that evening, unscathed, to dinner with their families.
It's hard for those not constantly immersed in the daily struggles of the black oppressed to recognize Smith as just another human being trying to simply get by in one of America's most unequal cities, where "crime" is necessary just to survive.
4
With the burning of businesses in this city, how can you blame other companies for not wanting to open up stores in areas like these. If you could go into business, would you consider a tinder box like Milwaukee a good location?
131
You are willfully missing the point in order to further racist views. The fact is that these neighborhoods are already deprived of a thriving business center because white people will not enter these neighborhoods. Many suburban white people will not even go downtown for a concert because they are “afraid” to park their cars there. I am not from here, but have been here for over 25 years and it IS the most racist place I’ve ever seen. A house goes up for sale on my working class city street and the neighbors absolutely panic--their racism is open and unabashed. It disgusts me.
17
Lol. The initial poster was labeled a racist in the first line of the first response. Argument over. Wear your scarlet letter....
26
So it is now racist to avoid walking or parking in high crime areas?
57
I don't understand why Milwaukee has such a large minority population. Perhaps a knowledgeable reader will explain?
2
The article mentions this:
That problem, some residents say, began from the time black people started migrating to Milwaukee in large numbers in the second half of the 20th century.
I think a lot of the movement was from Chicago.
That problem, some residents say, began from the time black people started migrating to Milwaukee in large numbers in the second half of the 20th century.
I think a lot of the movement was from Chicago.
10
Many of the suburban communities have limited -- in some cases very limited -- affordable housing. There is no light rail and a limited bus system to get people living in the central city (where there is affordable housing) to the jobs in the suburbs. So, if you are financially limited you have little choice but to live in the city if you choose to live in the Milwaukee area.
9
A good source of information would be anything you can find by John Gurda, who has written extensively on the history of Milwaukee as well as put together several television and video productions on the subject. Another revelatory work that I have urged people to read here before is "Evicted" by Matthew Desmond, a scholarly study of the national housing problem through the microcosm of Milwaukee.
My career took me away, but I grew up in Milwaukee in the house where my father grew up, and where my brother still lives near 57th and North Avenue. This is just west of the Sherman Park neighborhood. I visit all the time (I was there last Saturday), and I love the city - the "north side" - where I have always felt safe, and which has been pretty diverse all of my life. The Mayor's home, where he grew up, is only a few blocks from there also. Most of this area is anchored by people who own their homes and have been there for generations. Lack of adequate, affordable housing is only one aspect of a multi-faceted problem. Still, my fear is that there is a whole new generation of people who do not feel connected to or invested in their neighborhoods because they cannot afford to own the homes they live in, or they cannot avoid being forced to move over and over again from bad places to worse places. Without that dignity and sense of belonging, to a neighborhood or to a city, sadly it seems it becomes easier to set things on fire.
My career took me away, but I grew up in Milwaukee in the house where my father grew up, and where my brother still lives near 57th and North Avenue. This is just west of the Sherman Park neighborhood. I visit all the time (I was there last Saturday), and I love the city - the "north side" - where I have always felt safe, and which has been pretty diverse all of my life. The Mayor's home, where he grew up, is only a few blocks from there also. Most of this area is anchored by people who own their homes and have been there for generations. Lack of adequate, affordable housing is only one aspect of a multi-faceted problem. Still, my fear is that there is a whole new generation of people who do not feel connected to or invested in their neighborhoods because they cannot afford to own the homes they live in, or they cannot avoid being forced to move over and over again from bad places to worse places. Without that dignity and sense of belonging, to a neighborhood or to a city, sadly it seems it becomes easier to set things on fire.
33
And we have a Mayor in our city pushing to spend $140,000,000 on a 2 mile trolley car that primarily benefits this "...mostly white crowd (who) traffic through the restaurants and boutiques downtown, or inhabit the glossy lakefront high rises."
Add to this the fast rubber stamp approval of a brand new sports complex for the Milwaukee Bucks with a large portion of city tax dollars and you'll get an idea of our city's priorities.
I've lived in Milwaukee my entire life. My job functions bring me into the inner city. The level of poverty, crime and violence has gotten exponentially worse over the past 10-15 years. What's equally odd is the gentrification that's occurred in many Milwaukee areas over that same time period. Housing prices in these gentrified areas have skyrocketed. Boutique restaurants, shops and bars grow like weeds. These areas are as you guessed it, mainly white. The city positively encourages this sort of gentrification but it seems the only commitment it has to our inner city citizens is to double up police presence in those areas.
Add to this the fast rubber stamp approval of a brand new sports complex for the Milwaukee Bucks with a large portion of city tax dollars and you'll get an idea of our city's priorities.
I've lived in Milwaukee my entire life. My job functions bring me into the inner city. The level of poverty, crime and violence has gotten exponentially worse over the past 10-15 years. What's equally odd is the gentrification that's occurred in many Milwaukee areas over that same time period. Housing prices in these gentrified areas have skyrocketed. Boutique restaurants, shops and bars grow like weeds. These areas are as you guessed it, mainly white. The city positively encourages this sort of gentrification but it seems the only commitment it has to our inner city citizens is to double up police presence in those areas.
87
Exactly where do you get the tax dollars to make a change?
Have you looked at what happens to neighborhoods that title8 housing is placed in?
Money will not change this cycle of poverty and violence. What type of jobs can be made available to those who do not graduate higjh school?
Have you looked at what happens to neighborhoods that title8 housing is placed in?
Money will not change this cycle of poverty and violence. What type of jobs can be made available to those who do not graduate higjh school?
23
Gentrification and white flight are essentially opposites(whites moving in vs. whites leaving) but somehow in both instances blacks are victims of white racism.
23
John, please check out the lovely new Century City industrial park which recently opened in the neighborhood where the riots took place. It was created on city-owned land with a great deal of publicly funded investment. This belies your suggestion that "the only commitment it has to our inner city citizens is to double up police presence." (Unfortunately, businesses seem reluctant to become tenants of the industrial park, in part because of the high level of crime in the area.)
8
I grew up in a suburb of Milwaukee in the 1960's. I remember the rioting. I remember Father Groppi who was a very polarizing figure in Milwaukee. I remember my grandparents, who lived on the north side of Milwaukee, sold their house and a few other properties they owned because it was so bad in that area back in the 1960's. It seems not much has changed over the decades. It's sad. When will all of this end?
27
I grew up in the city (near Wauwatosa) in the 60s. I well remember the riots of '67, but put in context, Milwaukee was not the only city experiencing riots that hot summer. I worked with inner city children all through high school, tutoring, much to the horror of my parents. We were trying to show these children there's a better path and it's through education.
Governor Walker attended Marquette University for a time (located adjacent to the north side ghetto), but apparently never learned the lessons from his required theology classes and the Jesuits. Pope Francis needs to make a trip there and tell all the white folk to put down their prejudices and help this community. So that they have the tools to lift themselves out of the vicious cycle they're born into.
Governor Walker attended Marquette University for a time (located adjacent to the north side ghetto), but apparently never learned the lessons from his required theology classes and the Jesuits. Pope Francis needs to make a trip there and tell all the white folk to put down their prejudices and help this community. So that they have the tools to lift themselves out of the vicious cycle they're born into.
5
@Karen: The folk may also say they were tired of personal violence perpetrated by African Americans. Pope Francis isn't living in Milwaukee and apparently neither are you.
9
@Susan: And you will notice almost no one on this board will address the issue if your grandparents' neighborhood becoming so bad. Many will gloss over it or blame it on folks like your grandparents. When in reality all they probably wanted to do was live out their lives in their old neighborhood.
And no one from the NY Times editorial board will even admit the problems your grandparents faced ever existed.
And no one from the NY Times editorial board will even admit the problems your grandparents faced ever existed.
9