I'm glad the NYT is doing this series. Too often the only murders that catch the nation's attention happen to white middle-class people. But I find it dispiriting that so many readers are judgmental of people who live with the constant threat of violence, as if they could simply hit their foreheads and say, "Of course! Let's stop doing this!" Maybe they could find a solution to the situation they find themselves in, but it is much more complex and more difficult than people think. Many of the readers suggested that the Times not continue these types of stories, I suppose so they could go back to ignoring the people whose suffering distresses them.
14
How cheap life is in the South Bronx. Mr. Washington could have been just about anything had he not grown up in this environment where life can be extinguished for the "wrong look" or just about any ridiculous infraction. What a shame!
5
I'm glad the Times is doing this series. It gives us a window into some of the troubles and choices people had before the ultimate tragedy struck. True, as some commenters pointed out, the 'ragtag' description of Mr. Washington and his friends is a bit odd... Not neutral ... a bit condescending. And many people seem to be reading this story with closed minds. But this story and others like it does evoke compassion, at least for me, for the vicious cycle many are caught in. It helps paint a bigger picture of a murder victim's life. Imagine being put into a taxi alone at age 5, with a younger sibling, with signs of abuse marking your skin. Every experience we have up until age 5 or 6 usually heavily impacts the trajectory our lives take. Some people will always make poor choices, no matter how much help is extended to them. But we should do what we can as a society to help the maximum number of people make good choices at every stage of life. This is not the case now.... Too many are falling through cracks and the consequences affect us all. I am praying we all do our little part to make things better... and it starts with understanding that none of us chose our parents or childhood scenarios, whether good or bad. But for the grace of God, there go we.
11
Tragedy is a hard thing to run away from especially when you are dealt bad cards to begin with. There are plenty of people in this world that are dealt bad cards at the start of their life and there is not much that they can do about it. Julian Washington was just one example, he was loved by many in his community and he was simply in the wrong place at the wrong time. I am interested in this article because it shows how privileged I am and what a different life looks like.
This article shows me that there are different types of people that live in poverty. All of them have bad cards, but some choose to embrace it and make good decisions and others who make bad choices digging an even deeper hole than they're already in.
It's hard for me to imagine what life would be like living in the projects in South Bronx, New York. Which is why I enjoyed reading this article to help give an idea, without the murder, on what living there would be like. Constant parties, trouble everywhere you turn, but it is what you do not see that really matters. Even with all the trouble and violence there are people who try to make the best decisions so that maybe one day they can have a better life for themselves and their children. Mr. Washington and some of his family members were those people who tried to make the best out bad situation. Overall this article gave me knowledge about living in the projects and that is why it interests me.
This article shows me that there are different types of people that live in poverty. All of them have bad cards, but some choose to embrace it and make good decisions and others who make bad choices digging an even deeper hole than they're already in.
It's hard for me to imagine what life would be like living in the projects in South Bronx, New York. Which is why I enjoyed reading this article to help give an idea, without the murder, on what living there would be like. Constant parties, trouble everywhere you turn, but it is what you do not see that really matters. Even with all the trouble and violence there are people who try to make the best decisions so that maybe one day they can have a better life for themselves and their children. Mr. Washington and some of his family members were those people who tried to make the best out bad situation. Overall this article gave me knowledge about living in the projects and that is why it interests me.
8
I knew julian personally. We were like brothers. I had moments we shared together that could never be replaced. But the projects did not sum up julian's life. While we come from "these parts" julian was an inspiration in life, who traveled frequently to retreats to Boston and other places where he could explore his ideas. In the end he died a hero and honor as a true friend
11
Not sure why there are so many comments on race, this story is like the Rorschach test - you see and state the emotion that easiest arises. For me, I loved the writing, sad that the story was true, but I don't feel it's likelyhood much different in the "white" parties I went to some 28 years ago. The main differences are the ages of the participants, slightly older but still acting like teenagers, and the lethality of the fights, the willingness to cross the line into knives and guns, which I imagine a reflection of their experience. In suburbia and college, this would have been only a fist fight. Of course, the loud music would have drawn the police much earlier, neighbors would not have stuffed doors and taken pills against the noise, they would have called the police, who would have broken up the party (as would happen in virtually any building/neighborhood where residents are not terrified by young people). If you let kids with their often violent, uncontrollable, emotions set the rules for your community, you cannot expect peace, stability, or organization.
If we want to bring this into the realm of how do we socially engineer this type of thing away, you would need to try and provide programs and support for those with young children. However, these types of changes take generations to accomplish, as well as agreement and ownership by the community served. The community needs to believe and be motivated to begin to change old patterns of behavior.
If we want to bring this into the realm of how do we socially engineer this type of thing away, you would need to try and provide programs and support for those with young children. However, these types of changes take generations to accomplish, as well as agreement and ownership by the community served. The community needs to believe and be motivated to begin to change old patterns of behavior.
17
"they had been moved, against their instincts, to point him out to police officers"
Against their instincts? A guy just committed murder in front of these folk and it was against their instincts to point him out to police?
Against their instincts? A guy just committed murder in front of these folk and it was against their instincts to point him out to police?
29
My favorite, (and by favorite I mean what offends me the most as a Black man) part of this "news" article is the quaint little housekeeping statement at the bottom of the oversized photo of a Black man lying in a coffin.
Here at the NYT *cheery smile* starting with this grotesque exploitation of Black people designed to be a humane way to make Black people look less human, we are going to cover EVERY murder in this handpicked part of NYC.
So all you people who complain about how Barack Obama and his liberal elite ignore the plight of Black on Black crime victims, we've got you covered! Smile for the cameras? No wait, this is a funeral, don't smile.
Now back to "those" people...
The sad part is this is exactly how the liberal elite think and function.
Here at the NYT *cheery smile* starting with this grotesque exploitation of Black people designed to be a humane way to make Black people look less human, we are going to cover EVERY murder in this handpicked part of NYC.
So all you people who complain about how Barack Obama and his liberal elite ignore the plight of Black on Black crime victims, we've got you covered! Smile for the cameras? No wait, this is a funeral, don't smile.
Now back to "those" people...
The sad part is this is exactly how the liberal elite think and function.
21
I guess I don't understand.
If the death was ignored, then the liberal elites don't care?
The death was given a good amount of space in the biggest newspaper in the country - and you are angry, at what I'm not clear.
How should the paper respond?
If the death was ignored, then the liberal elites don't care?
The death was given a good amount of space in the biggest newspaper in the country - and you are angry, at what I'm not clear.
How should the paper respond?
29
It is hard to know what to make of a tragedy like this. This was an isolated incident and not really indicative of a pervasive culture of violence in a minority community, so much as the unfortunate result of anger mixed with alcohol and lack of self control. However, what is telling is that when this poor young man lay bleeding and dying on the ground the party goers just stampeded over his body like a piece of trash. To me the ever increasing lack of humanity we continue to display for our fellow humans is the real tragedy here.
How does a party thrown to celebrate the life and good health of one person, end with the death of another? Because there is very little concern and respect for the lives of others these days, and that is not racial or cultural. We may see it and feel it more acutely in the black community, but there is quite a bit of hypocrisy going on when we demand the respect for life that we continue to deny to others.
How does a party thrown to celebrate the life and good health of one person, end with the death of another? Because there is very little concern and respect for the lives of others these days, and that is not racial or cultural. We may see it and feel it more acutely in the black community, but there is quite a bit of hypocrisy going on when we demand the respect for life that we continue to deny to others.
19
So many commenters are talking about "culture" and "projects" while others who obviously have comprehension issues talk about "guns" and gun control when gun violence appears nowhere in this story.
It sounds like the person who did the stabbing had mental health issues (perhaps flashbacks and paranoia after being stabbed himself). A person that is unstable coupled with alcohol is a recipe for disaster and has nothing to do with the race.
Condolences to Mr. Washington's family and friends.
It sounds like the person who did the stabbing had mental health issues (perhaps flashbacks and paranoia after being stabbed himself). A person that is unstable coupled with alcohol is a recipe for disaster and has nothing to do with the race.
Condolences to Mr. Washington's family and friends.
9
I won't repeat all the appropriate adjectives used in relation to this event. Just add two that the nyt is unlikely to use: Stupid and ignorant. And these apply to more than just the killer, as good folks who have to live in these settings well know. Maybe the greatest tragedy is that, usually, stupid and ignorant are forever.
15
A young life wasted for no reason, with no shots fired. The culprit? Difficult upbringings and violence as the image of a macho man.
4
As soon as I read where the assailant had been in foster care since the age of 12 I knew the cause of what had happened. The lack of parenting, education/schooling, diet and shelter opens the door to violence for Mr. Hubbard. I've mentioned before, the federal government has abandoned the inner cities and the residents living there. The squalor and crime is no environment for young children - they become 'adults' very quickly. It's a very sad story, one that seems to be repeated over and over again. Until we fix the root causes of who Mr. Hubbard has become, we will never solve the crimes committed by men like him.
10
So it's the governments responsibility to ensure proper family structure? You know - two parent homes, reading to children, dedicating your life to them, ensuring they are fed and educated?
Does any government have a department that reads to children before bed?
Does any government have a department that reads to children before bed?
22
The federal government is not responsible for having and rearing children; the parents are. Please stop blaming everything on the government. How do you suggest we "fix the root causes" if not by stopping teens from having babies and then abandoning them or being unable to support them?
29
I just got back from afternoon hearings...are White Obama liberals wringing their hands, shaking their heads and wondering aloud about "those people" yet?
Oh, if only those people could be as civilized as Barack Obama (who ISN'T Black). Maybe those people could avoid those senseless tragedies that those people (who don't have sense) find themselves in!
And people wonder why I left the Democratic Party and became a Black Conservative Republican after I met Barack Obama before law school when I worked at the DNC in 2004.
Do you need more reasons?
Oh, if only those people could be as civilized as Barack Obama (who ISN'T Black). Maybe those people could avoid those senseless tragedies that those people (who don't have sense) find themselves in!
And people wonder why I left the Democratic Party and became a Black Conservative Republican after I met Barack Obama before law school when I worked at the DNC in 2004.
Do you need more reasons?
10
You don't get to decide who's black and who's not. Obama identifies himself as black. That's enough.
23
Exactly how much melanin does someone need in his skin before you allow him to be Black? Or do you think President Obama keeps himself constantly spray-tanned?
3
No matter the race, origins, or culture of a human, how could one being be so selfish to poison their own body of alcohol and proceed to take ones who had feelings, a family, struggles, and dreams of their own. The article states that Mr. Washington was the sixth of ten homicides logged this year in only the South Bronx. We should not be living in a world where we have to be concerned about going to a party and getting stabbed. What is it that makes young and old minds so violent? Are they influenced by other people? Or are they just under the influence of alcohol? I believe we need better regulations for the use of alcohol if the suspect of a murder can't even remember he killed someone, or so he says. People are fighting for Black Lives Matter but there are still murders between there own people. All lives matter not just black. For someone's life to be taken away from the use of alcohol and a knife should be outrageous, but in our world today we have become used to it. These sickening acts should not keep happening, everyone's lives are important. We have dreams and hopes, feelings and struggles, good days and bad, we are all the same in that way, so no one should even feel the need to take a life away, drunk or sober.
4
"Mr. Washington used to party in the West Village and at the nearby piers with a ragtag group of gay people, many of them black and Hispanic."
This country will never embrace diversity by writing subtle messages that disparages black or Hispanic individuals. As a Hispanic man, I can identify and sense all the subtle messages that the "liberal" New York Times inserts in its articles, such as the aforementioned, that continues the "status quo" and perpetrates unconscious racism and stereotypes.
Why don't we rephrase that sentence I quoted in the beginning of this comment section to include the following:
"Mr. Washington used to party in the West Village and at the nearby piers with a ragtag group of gay people, many of them black and Hispanic. While walking to the West Village, he would get off at the 8th street train station and encounter many hobo whites lying in the park panhandling."
Better yet:
"Mr. Washington used to party in the West Village and at the nearby piers with a ragtag group of gay people, many of them black and Hispanic. Sometimes he would want to exercise and instead of get off at the West Village, he would get off at the Upper East Side and walk. As walking down Madison Ave, many whites would display abhor countenances when encountering Mr. Washington, a black man in a majority white neighborhood."
Educated Hispanics and blacks are tired of the subtle racism in these articles that perpetuate the status quo!
This country will never embrace diversity by writing subtle messages that disparages black or Hispanic individuals. As a Hispanic man, I can identify and sense all the subtle messages that the "liberal" New York Times inserts in its articles, such as the aforementioned, that continues the "status quo" and perpetrates unconscious racism and stereotypes.
Why don't we rephrase that sentence I quoted in the beginning of this comment section to include the following:
"Mr. Washington used to party in the West Village and at the nearby piers with a ragtag group of gay people, many of them black and Hispanic. While walking to the West Village, he would get off at the 8th street train station and encounter many hobo whites lying in the park panhandling."
Better yet:
"Mr. Washington used to party in the West Village and at the nearby piers with a ragtag group of gay people, many of them black and Hispanic. Sometimes he would want to exercise and instead of get off at the West Village, he would get off at the Upper East Side and walk. As walking down Madison Ave, many whites would display abhor countenances when encountering Mr. Washington, a black man in a majority white neighborhood."
Educated Hispanics and blacks are tired of the subtle racism in these articles that perpetuate the status quo!
17
I was wondering what specifically about the group made them "ragtag" in the first place.
9
I agree. It would have been a full and complete description by saying, "Mr. Washington used to party in the West Village and at the nearby piers with friends and acquaintances." Period.
Why ragtag? What's the diff if they're gay, hispanic, white, black, or whatever? What's next? Identifying us by our IQ when color, race, sexual orientation, and financial means are no longer descriptive?
Why ragtag? What's the diff if they're gay, hispanic, white, black, or whatever? What's next? Identifying us by our IQ when color, race, sexual orientation, and financial means are no longer descriptive?
4
So many people making "black lives matter" comments.
In their mind, their tax dollars going to pay public employees who execute black men at random is a good use of big government. Eric Garner being killed by a cop using a banned technique who had caused a previous suit against the NYPD was justified.
Here again, they tell us this is a cultural problem. I guess the shooters in Sandy Hook, Charleston, Tucson, Aurora, Oregon, Santa Barbara, etc are representative of white folks? I guess the white counties across the South where teenage pregnancy is rampant or in the Midwest where painkillers are, tell us about all white people?
They want to judge parties in the Bronx? NYT should run a series on the deep red counties in Eastern Kentucky where the GOP has huge margins and drug addiction and child pregnancy are through the roof and let's see who comments on that.
In their mind, their tax dollars going to pay public employees who execute black men at random is a good use of big government. Eric Garner being killed by a cop using a banned technique who had caused a previous suit against the NYPD was justified.
Here again, they tell us this is a cultural problem. I guess the shooters in Sandy Hook, Charleston, Tucson, Aurora, Oregon, Santa Barbara, etc are representative of white folks? I guess the white counties across the South where teenage pregnancy is rampant or in the Midwest where painkillers are, tell us about all white people?
They want to judge parties in the Bronx? NYT should run a series on the deep red counties in Eastern Kentucky where the GOP has huge margins and drug addiction and child pregnancy are through the roof and let's see who comments on that.
16
2014 Incidence rates of murders by race per million of victim's population
Whites killed by whites: 10.1 per million
Blacks killed by blacks: 52.3 per million
FBI Data: UCR 2014
Whites killed by whites: 10.1 per million
Blacks killed by blacks: 52.3 per million
FBI Data: UCR 2014
4
I guess it's the homicide rates of blacks compared to whites that makes them stand out so. Black men, only 6% of the US population, commit 52% of the murders, according to the US Department of Justice. What does that say to you?
11
What do you suggest? It's difficult for people to separate the killing perpetrated by the state (a very small number that take place each year) and the killings of young black males by the thousands each year in virtually every inner city in North America. We shouldn't ignore either, but the two, are seriously intertwined.
8
"… out of nowhere, Mr. Hubbard yanked on a beaded necklace he was wearing."
Who was wearing it?
Who was wearing it?
11
Usually people just hear the statistics but this series takes it deeper into their lives and how they ended up there . Amazing and so sad ! great job NYT.I can't wait for the next one
10
Hard to know what to make of this grotesque story and why the NYT has given it such in depth coverage.
16
Well, as good as these profiles are, I would prefer we not see any more of them appear in the Times, since that would mean someone else had been killed.
11
The NYT is deeply reporting the stories of homicide victims in one Bronx precinct this year. It's the continuation of a year long series.
1
Did you really need to show the man's corpse in the paper? Where is the respect for the dead and the grieving family? And you say Trump has no class and shows no one any respect. Shame.
7
They posed and composed. Very odd picture. Like a still life, including the living.
2
I assumed, rightly or wrongly, that the people in the photo had given permission for the picture with the corpse. What is inherently disrespectful about it: should we never show dead people? Why precisely? How is it disrespectful to them? Under any and all circumstances? What about when permission is given or even sought?
I am truly curious, not meaning to stir up anyone, just wanting to understand.
I am truly curious, not meaning to stir up anyone, just wanting to understand.
8
As an addendum to my earlier remark and a reply to this one: the Victorians often photographed the dead, particularly dead children, often posing their bodies with family pets (alive). I would be fascinated to know cultural differences, and class differences, that go into the idea of doing so, and the responses to it.
3
So this is a new thing. The minute a Black or Brown body is murdered, what is their criminal record? Seriously, this is a new level of ugly. I didn't notice anyone ask for Dylan Roof's criminal record. Nor was he given a 'no angel' special write up. I could mistake some of these letter for letters you would find at Stormfront.
3
I noticed plenty of people asking for Roof's criminal record, and plenty of people said he was no angel. Saw lots of photos he had put online of him with KKK symbols and the like. The minute someone gets murdered people start asking questions about the murderer and the victim. Doesn't particularly matter what race they are.
22
I beg to differ with you on Dylan Roof. He was front and center almost instantly, criminal record, social media record and all. Right here in the NYT. And rightfully so.
I don't know what you were reading then.
I don't know what you were reading then.
21
Again denial will keep things the same. Start shaming your fellow menaces.
6
This entire series is disgusting. Where are the articles covering the broken schools and neoliberal policies that have led to this wrenching poverty? All of that is glossed over and replaced with trite explanations of "ghetto" culture so your White middle class readership can understand how "those" people live. The anthropological gaze you employ in relating these stories does an excellent job of othering this group by identifying their "strange" rituals. You didn't care about Mr. Washington in life, but want to exploit his death. Going even as far as publishing his photo in the casket. Shame on you.
14
Neoliberal policies? What about the GOP attempts to dismantle health care, reduce Social Security, cut funding for the disabled, pursue policies of "trickle-down" economics that lead to massive loss of jobs, refusal to raise the minimum wage to a living wage, trying to avoid or get rid of environmental protections?
The GOP governor of Kansas is a study in destroying that state's educational system; Flint is a case in point of the GOP governing body allowing the poisoning of its most vulnerable -- and now their trash is not being picked up because the contract has not been renewed.
The Democrats, on the other hand, have been trying to pass legislation for expanded health care, affordable day care, a livable minimum wage,universally available preschool, environmental protections, etc. Show me where this is a "neoliberal" policy that has led to poverty, please.
The GOP governor of Kansas is a study in destroying that state's educational system; Flint is a case in point of the GOP governing body allowing the poisoning of its most vulnerable -- and now their trash is not being picked up because the contract has not been renewed.
The Democrats, on the other hand, have been trying to pass legislation for expanded health care, affordable day care, a livable minimum wage,universally available preschool, environmental protections, etc. Show me where this is a "neoliberal" policy that has led to poverty, please.
6
There is enough opportunity to escape this awful environment. It's called upward mobility and has happened a few times over the last century.
But statistically it would take a two parent home, a focus on education, manners and respect for others/things.
See where the dream gets derailed?
But statistically it would take a two parent home, a focus on education, manners and respect for others/things.
See where the dream gets derailed?
4
Yes, it is culture--and one where it is common to violate other people's personal space.
We're always reading about parties ending in tragedy because crowds of the uninvited showed up.
We're always reading about people failing to extend the merest courtesies to their neighbors. Why should neighbors have to drug themselves into stupors in order to sleep peacefully in their own beds?
Who walks into a stranger's kitchen and starts drinking their liquor without permission?
And you wonder why communities continually self-segregate no matter how hard governmental authorities try to "encourage" diversity.
I want to live with people like myself--who show courtesy towards me; who keep their property clean; who care about the wellbeing of their own and everyone else's children. I don't care what color you are or what language you speak. But if your idea of having a good time is to invade my space and make it impossible for me to rightfully enjoy it, I don't want to be anywhere near you.
We're always reading about parties ending in tragedy because crowds of the uninvited showed up.
We're always reading about people failing to extend the merest courtesies to their neighbors. Why should neighbors have to drug themselves into stupors in order to sleep peacefully in their own beds?
Who walks into a stranger's kitchen and starts drinking their liquor without permission?
And you wonder why communities continually self-segregate no matter how hard governmental authorities try to "encourage" diversity.
I want to live with people like myself--who show courtesy towards me; who keep their property clean; who care about the wellbeing of their own and everyone else's children. I don't care what color you are or what language you speak. But if your idea of having a good time is to invade my space and make it impossible for me to rightfully enjoy it, I don't want to be anywhere near you.
47
What kinds of people would engage in such violent behaviors? This is pathetic and does not deserve coverage in a reputable news journal. The NYT paints a picture of poverty that attempts to somehow justify the violence.
Violence is just part of the culture. Try explaining to the parents of these kids that it is not OK to beat your kids. The response you will get is that these kids need 'tough love.' No, these kids are exposed to and subject to violence regularly and at a young age.Violence is taught to them by their parents.
Poverty doesn't cause violence, social norms are the root of the violence.
Violence is just part of the culture. Try explaining to the parents of these kids that it is not OK to beat your kids. The response you will get is that these kids need 'tough love.' No, these kids are exposed to and subject to violence regularly and at a young age.Violence is taught to them by their parents.
Poverty doesn't cause violence, social norms are the root of the violence.
27
"Witnesses said the crime was so senseless and the getaway so inept that they had been moved, against their instincts, to point him out to police officers, who stopped him near the subway."
But other crimes and violence they see in their communities don't move them to point out other perpetrators to the police?! Black lives matter, though, right?
But other crimes and violence they see in their communities don't move them to point out other perpetrators to the police?! Black lives matter, though, right?
31
From other articles I've read, I would assume their instincts are to shut their mouths lest they or their family members are targeted as revenge.
5
Either Ray Kelly or Michael Bloomberg were once asked about if the murder rate would one day be zero. The answer was that to get to zero a cop would have to be in every party, club, home in NYC. The murder rate in NYC today is most often the result of people killing known associates/friends/families. This is unfortunately one area the police cannot help ... and that cause is generational poverty.
10
Generational poverty is the sanitized term for a poor little girl who wants a baby of her own to love, multiplied by hundreds of thousands. Save that little girl, and you save the world.
9
So much despair, so many wasted lives. Thanks for the report.
2
"There is no such joy in the tavern as upon the road thereto." CM
1
If I lived in an environment like that, I would be in bed at 9PM, do everything I could dream up to get a job or education between 7AM and 6PM, be indoors after that until bedtime at 9PM. Bet I wouldn't get killed, beat-up or arrested. Bet I'd get a job and have the respect of others as I would give respect to others. If not, why live in a civilized country?
15
I can readily think of three recent occasions when NYTimes, seemingly unashamedly, has posted picture of 'person of color' lying in coffin.
Yet, in the many decades I have read this paper, I have never seen picture of deceased white person - rather, it seems deference to family and friends is taken into account.
Yet, in the many decades I have read this paper, I have never seen picture of deceased white person - rather, it seems deference to family and friends is taken into account.
7
I wouldn't read anything into. Over the years I've seen plenty of such pictures of people of other races in this paper. Popes for example.
Moreover, the editor of The New York Times is African-American and issues regarding his race have never been more 'front and center' in this, the paper of record, since he assumed command. That's his call.
In addition, I think the paper is commendably attempting to cover black on black crime in response to some reasonable criticism from the right; i.e., black lives only matter when taken by a white person.
In other words, stop trying to find controversy where none exists.
Moreover, the editor of The New York Times is African-American and issues regarding his race have never been more 'front and center' in this, the paper of record, since he assumed command. That's his call.
In addition, I think the paper is commendably attempting to cover black on black crime in response to some reasonable criticism from the right; i.e., black lives only matter when taken by a white person.
In other words, stop trying to find controversy where none exists.
13
Nonsense. I've seen plenty of dead white people in the NYT, often after terrorist attacks. But the family of this victim are the ones who approved his photo being used in the NYT, perhaps you should take up this meaningless quibble with them.
30
Yes. Total nonsense.
You've seen plenty of dead non-White, non-American White people in the NYT. And it warms my heart as a Black lawyer in Washington DC to see Obama liberals describing the left's exploitation of Black people as "meaningless"...heck, with that much love in the room I might just leave the GOP and join the Democrats!
NOT.
You've seen plenty of dead non-White, non-American White people in the NYT. And it warms my heart as a Black lawyer in Washington DC to see Obama liberals describing the left's exploitation of Black people as "meaningless"...heck, with that much love in the room I might just leave the GOP and join the Democrats!
NOT.
6
I was born on 163rd Street and Melrose Ave. in 1955. My family moved to Queens when I was 9 because the neighborhood was getting bad. There was a killing in our building, and you saw people sniffing glue. Don't know where I would have ended up if we didn't move.
5
This is sad. It is a story about people and generational poverty. Generational poverty does not know gender, color, nationality ... and the traits are the same whether it is Mexico City, rural West Virginia or the Bronx.
The "generationally" poor - like the wealthy and the middle class - have unwritten rules. Understandings. It is handed down generation to generation. One is the danger of house parties. Among the fun, dancing, drinking, music and good vibes among friends comes tension when strangers are present. Add in booze, some herb etc and things can get hectic. This article is a classic example of someone that was a stranger, did not want to attend, and then found a weapon (so no premeditated intent) and went wild. Sometimes it is gangs, a beef between two people, dancing with the wrong girl or guy ... but the stranger(s) add danger.
The parties are communal by nature. I have been to many. The door is open, windows open, the beer in the washer machine (if there is one in the apartment and normally in the kitchen). Music loud. Kids running around the building. And the stranger enters.
This is not about a lack of hope or opportunity (albeit those are major issues we must address) or inequality. It is about unwritten but clearly understood rules.
Every party I have ever attended in my youth and as an adult in the Bronx (mostly Dominican and Puerto Rican parties as that is my family) we are on the guard for strangers. Or the odd. Because we know.
The "generationally" poor - like the wealthy and the middle class - have unwritten rules. Understandings. It is handed down generation to generation. One is the danger of house parties. Among the fun, dancing, drinking, music and good vibes among friends comes tension when strangers are present. Add in booze, some herb etc and things can get hectic. This article is a classic example of someone that was a stranger, did not want to attend, and then found a weapon (so no premeditated intent) and went wild. Sometimes it is gangs, a beef between two people, dancing with the wrong girl or guy ... but the stranger(s) add danger.
The parties are communal by nature. I have been to many. The door is open, windows open, the beer in the washer machine (if there is one in the apartment and normally in the kitchen). Music loud. Kids running around the building. And the stranger enters.
This is not about a lack of hope or opportunity (albeit those are major issues we must address) or inequality. It is about unwritten but clearly understood rules.
Every party I have ever attended in my youth and as an adult in the Bronx (mostly Dominican and Puerto Rican parties as that is my family) we are on the guard for strangers. Or the odd. Because we know.
7
Again in this story we saw mentions of a mother, drugs, no mention of a dad, and a grandmother who raised her grandkids. I have to wonder how many others from this story, and stories like this, come from similar home situation? Likely many.
Until we solve the issue of girls/women bringing children into already-compromised home situations, nothing will change. It's not about 'single motherhood' in and of itself; many single people, both men and women, can successfully raise children on their own, but to do so requires a PLAN, stability, financial security, etc. The problem with far too many single mothers is that they had no plan, no stability, no financial safety net, a chaotic home environment, romantic 'drama', etc. And we've all seen time and again, the result of this poor decision-making. And who suffers most? Why the poor children, and society as a whole.
Until we solve the issue of girls/women bringing children into already-compromised home situations, nothing will change. It's not about 'single motherhood' in and of itself; many single people, both men and women, can successfully raise children on their own, but to do so requires a PLAN, stability, financial security, etc. The problem with far too many single mothers is that they had no plan, no stability, no financial safety net, a chaotic home environment, romantic 'drama', etc. And we've all seen time and again, the result of this poor decision-making. And who suffers most? Why the poor children, and society as a whole.
17
This is an all too common story that happens often around the country, although thankfully not as commonly as it used to based on statistics.
Commenters seem to be drawing different lessons based on their own perspectives and politics. For my part, what strikes me about this story in this election season is that its about solving problems with aggression and violence, dealing with the depressing aftermath and recognizing how senseless it was only after the fact....
Commenters seem to be drawing different lessons based on their own perspectives and politics. For my part, what strikes me about this story in this election season is that its about solving problems with aggression and violence, dealing with the depressing aftermath and recognizing how senseless it was only after the fact....
2
A great deal of the problem of crime, violence, drugs and dissolution of neighborhoods (the projects) and families is the lack of moral authority to counter act the culture that has developed within the projects and poverty stricken communities throughout greater New York.
We are fighting an uphill battle against a culture of violence and crime that we have allowed to flourish. We have ignored the problem.
The culture of the gangs, criminals and minorities trapped within the towers of the projects and other neighborhoods has not softened even after an abundance of private and government social and economic programs. There is no reason for that criminal / poverty culture to change.
The reality is that the culture, indeed even the religious values of the projects, is one that separates itself from other communities. Projects are territory. The projects have their own self-rule and government and their own "moral authority." The city of New York has no authority in the projects. The residents of the projects view themselves as apart, not part of New York.
The projects/towers are geographically independent fiefdoms of violence, crime, ignorance and corruption. The projects are a cohesive group with a set of rules for survival. There is a covenant between residents and criminals that allows crime to persist. There is no moral authority to object to criminal behavior.
Bring the projects/towers under the authority of New York. Assert moral authority. End the culture of crime.
We are fighting an uphill battle against a culture of violence and crime that we have allowed to flourish. We have ignored the problem.
The culture of the gangs, criminals and minorities trapped within the towers of the projects and other neighborhoods has not softened even after an abundance of private and government social and economic programs. There is no reason for that criminal / poverty culture to change.
The reality is that the culture, indeed even the religious values of the projects, is one that separates itself from other communities. Projects are territory. The projects have their own self-rule and government and their own "moral authority." The city of New York has no authority in the projects. The residents of the projects view themselves as apart, not part of New York.
The projects/towers are geographically independent fiefdoms of violence, crime, ignorance and corruption. The projects are a cohesive group with a set of rules for survival. There is a covenant between residents and criminals that allows crime to persist. There is no moral authority to object to criminal behavior.
Bring the projects/towers under the authority of New York. Assert moral authority. End the culture of crime.
8
After reading this well informed tragedy, my condolences goes to Mr. Washington's family. Despite the lively party that was and a horrible ending, it painted a strong question that needs to be answer; Murder cases like this happens all over the world and they aren't being brought to justice because some of them get away by bribes or other ways so: Are we all in the same system or are we all not equal? Is this what the system have become or the order is designated to be like this? Is this the picture that we think is a masterpiece? - An iron thick red color painted all over by the brush mixed with the hair of all the dead people, lies a big picture. And we are being sold by this ugly power that attracts us, some gives in, some doesn't and some they're just bystanders. In the end, the power lies only on us to paint a better picture and prevent bad judgements.
Feeling for Mr. Washington and Mr. Hubbard and their loved ones.
Noting also that while there are 10 names so far on your Murder In The 4-0 list, and I believe you state the precinct is one of the highest in homicides, the overall trend is clearly positive and a lot of people must be doing something right, including people at the party and people down the hall just trying to sleep.
Reading the comments is always an interesting and weird experience.
Noting also that while there are 10 names so far on your Murder In The 4-0 list, and I believe you state the precinct is one of the highest in homicides, the overall trend is clearly positive and a lot of people must be doing something right, including people at the party and people down the hall just trying to sleep.
Reading the comments is always an interesting and weird experience.
4
It's not the system. It's the culture. There are a lot of really poor whites out there but they just don't exhibit antisocial violent behavior with anywhere near the same frequency. These type of stories make me understand why police operate the way they do in these communities. They have to. They are super violent environments where life isn't respected.
16
I feel that many people, caught in a cycle of violence, lack of education and poverty, do not see any way out. I think those of us who are more fortunate cannot understand how these people make such poor choices in their lives, i.e having children they cannot afford to raise, thus condemning those children to the same circumstances. Do they feel that alienated from the rest of society?
Like it or not, these are our people. They are Americans. We like them when we send them in uniform to fight in Iraq or Afghanistan. When they return, we want them to go back to the ghetto and stay there.
Some people need more help than others. What some would call 'freebies' from the govt, I would call a good investment in improving our nation for all our citizens.
I worked in healthcare for many years, in inner city hospitals and I know that if people are treated with dignity and respect, in most cases, they will react in kind. And, I took care of drug users, homeless, criminals and everything in between. I found out that they are no different from you or me.
Like it or not, these are our people. They are Americans. We like them when we send them in uniform to fight in Iraq or Afghanistan. When they return, we want them to go back to the ghetto and stay there.
Some people need more help than others. What some would call 'freebies' from the govt, I would call a good investment in improving our nation for all our citizens.
I worked in healthcare for many years, in inner city hospitals and I know that if people are treated with dignity and respect, in most cases, they will react in kind. And, I took care of drug users, homeless, criminals and everything in between. I found out that they are no different from you or me.
3
Sadly, it's like watching an American sub-culture that once was vibrant and proud self-destruct. How to stop this death spiral seems beyond our grasp and beyond our social resources. It seems all that can be done at this point is to continue to witness its destruction.
6
The glamorization of ghetto culture and rap music is insidious and sub-par. Yet it doesn't stop millions of Americans in thinking it's cool or acceptable behavior. Is dying young considered noble? This school of hard knocks has to be called out for what it is. It is both dangerous and lethal to a decent, functioning society. Gangs and the glorification of violence, misogyny and 'party' culture is incredibly shallow and ignorant. Painfully, so many young Americans are buying into this and think it is awesome or whatever.
Promoting the urban 'gangsta' lifestyle is gross and arrogant.
Promoting the urban 'gangsta' lifestyle is gross and arrogant.
20
Where's the glamorization in this story OP? I see a lot to be very sad about. I see at least two people whose lives have been changed: the murdered and the alleged murderer. Where are the gangstas here? There was no mention of them. What was mentioned was people trying to have a good time and knives and a fight coming into play. If you saw gangsta here we must have read a different story.
I noticed that there were women, men, two people who had been a couple in their younger days, and someone who may have had a serious mental problem or was spoiling for a fight. That does not make it into gangsta or gang territory. It does make it into the tragedy territory. If people of all walks of life can't have some time to have fun, to let their hair down, life becomes one big chore. By the way, plenty of white people do these same things and it's just as annoying but it receives a lot less publicity because they're white.
I noticed that there were women, men, two people who had been a couple in their younger days, and someone who may have had a serious mental problem or was spoiling for a fight. That does not make it into gangsta or gang territory. It does make it into the tragedy territory. If people of all walks of life can't have some time to have fun, to let their hair down, life becomes one big chore. By the way, plenty of white people do these same things and it's just as annoying but it receives a lot less publicity because they're white.
3
You can just see the vignette, White liberals in faded Obama t-shirts sitting around Starbucks...
"Oh did you see the NY Times today?"
"Sigh...those poor people."
This is exactly why I am a Black, Conservative Christian Republican. I am nauseated by the exploitative, naked paternalism of the left. Was there any other way to tell this story? What happened? Were the autopsy photos not available? If this was a White liberal from the lower East Side, would we be getting this graphic depiction?
Of course not.
Absolute lunacy.
"Oh did you see the NY Times today?"
"Sigh...those poor people."
This is exactly why I am a Black, Conservative Christian Republican. I am nauseated by the exploitative, naked paternalism of the left. Was there any other way to tell this story? What happened? Were the autopsy photos not available? If this was a White liberal from the lower East Side, would we be getting this graphic depiction?
Of course not.
Absolute lunacy.
19
Right on the money DC
almost all commentators see through this patronizing article.
This kind of tawdry journalism insults readers and trivializes the lives of its subjects to the point of making them 2 dimensional cartoon-figures by writers whose life experience is confined to high-end zipcodes and $50K a year schools.
almost all commentators see through this patronizing article.
This kind of tawdry journalism insults readers and trivializes the lives of its subjects to the point of making them 2 dimensional cartoon-figures by writers whose life experience is confined to high-end zipcodes and $50K a year schools.
5
DCB: I can only begin the imagine the level of disgust you must provoke in the neo-communist progressives who read this publication. Keep it up!
1
@DCBarrister: How would you tell this story - or, would you rather keep it hidden? Do you wonder why most Americans, of all colors of the "rainbow," just turn from these repetitive stories of people who have little relation to the great majority of working, caring and responsible citizens?
Had a cop arrived, been confronted by knife-toting Hubbard, and then shot him, it would be more fodder for the "Black Lives Matter" crowd.
The people depicted in this article are under the underclass.
Had a cop arrived, been confronted by knife-toting Hubbard, and then shot him, it would be more fodder for the "Black Lives Matter" crowd.
The people depicted in this article are under the underclass.
1
Here is a key statement in the article:" raised by his grandmother"
I think the authors she study the victims and the criminals, by asking 2 questions:1. who was born to a teenage mother, and 2. who had an active father in their lives.
I am willing to bet the answer is scary.
Until the black community is willing to address teen pregnancy and absent fathers, nothing will ever change.
I think the authors she study the victims and the criminals, by asking 2 questions:1. who was born to a teenage mother, and 2. who had an active father in their lives.
I am willing to bet the answer is scary.
Until the black community is willing to address teen pregnancy and absent fathers, nothing will ever change.
22
This is such a sad story...What's even sadder, from a purely journalistic point, is that I'm noticing more and more, that the venerable New York Times, the old grey lady herself is featuring more of these scintillating and emotional stories, as if they are trying to rush to the gutter, like many media outlets like to do today, in the age of the Internet, and the dumb downing of America! I guess the paper has to do something to attract the under fifty crowd raised on Sesame Street, and a steady amount of tabloid gore.
11
I read this story hoping that the Times ran part thislenghty for a reason. But, the lead for this story buried deep in one of the last paragraph.
Julian Washington mother put him in a taxi at the age of 5, with burns on his body, and he was sent off to take care of itself. It was left to his grandmother's country and then resurrect people.
Dodge Challenger Hellcat
Julian Washington mother put him in a taxi at the age of 5, with burns on his body, and he was sent off to take care of itself. It was left to his grandmother's country and then resurrect people.
Dodge Challenger Hellcat
2
I think you have indeed located the lede. The root cause of this tragic situation is trauma. Going back for generations. Both the victim and the (alleged) perpetrator were living traumatized lives. We DO know how to help people resolve and deal with trauma. NYT, we need articles about the social workers and caring people who do this invaluable work.
3
What a tragic life. Abandoned by his drug addicted mother and absent father, raised poor, bi-sexual, unemployed with a low education level... just so many obstacles to overcome. At a certain point, a person does begin to "look for trouble" in the neighborhood, because they are just bored and stuck.
10
what does bi-sexual have to do with anything?
2
I assumed they mentioned the bi-sexuality as just one more thing that made this person's life more complicated/difficult...in knowing how society judges such people who are very open about their 'untraditional' sexuality....especially in black and latino cultures where a man's being gay or bi- is much more frowned upon.
6
Another of the ongoing NYT's condescending stories about poor unfortunate poor black folks" living in our urban ghetto of our creation for them.
Perhaps these exercises in florid, self-absorbed prose are aimed at subscribers to keep us at a safe remove between "us" and "them". All it does for me and probably thousands of others is infuriate and confirm the truth that this newspaper, from bottom to top, exists in a self-protected liberal fantasy bubble created to assuage its guilt--at the expense of those tragically affected by reality, poverty, squalid housing, and eviction.
Perhaps these exercises in florid, self-absorbed prose are aimed at subscribers to keep us at a safe remove between "us" and "them". All it does for me and probably thousands of others is infuriate and confirm the truth that this newspaper, from bottom to top, exists in a self-protected liberal fantasy bubble created to assuage its guilt--at the expense of those tragically affected by reality, poverty, squalid housing, and eviction.
11
I think I am in love.
God. Bless. You. Lisa.
It just kills (pun intended) me when White Liberals do this because it's a sign of vapid, intellectual greed.
On one side, put a biracial con artist in the White House to show actual Black people what we will never be (i.e. biracial) and portray that as the ideal Black person. Let me repeat that. In the world of the Obama liberal, the ideal Black person is Barack Obama, who isn't.
On the other side of the spectrum, dispatch White liberal elite to "report" human interest stories about Black on Black violence with the most demeaning, stereotypical images and memes your imagination can conjure. So that those "uppity" Black people who think they can rise above this know their place...and stay there.
As a society we are captive to the information we receive. And the liberal elite have controlled the media message in this country for longer than I've been alive.
Which is why we are STILL in this mess.
God. Bless. You. Lisa.
It just kills (pun intended) me when White Liberals do this because it's a sign of vapid, intellectual greed.
On one side, put a biracial con artist in the White House to show actual Black people what we will never be (i.e. biracial) and portray that as the ideal Black person. Let me repeat that. In the world of the Obama liberal, the ideal Black person is Barack Obama, who isn't.
On the other side of the spectrum, dispatch White liberal elite to "report" human interest stories about Black on Black violence with the most demeaning, stereotypical images and memes your imagination can conjure. So that those "uppity" Black people who think they can rise above this know their place...and stay there.
As a society we are captive to the information we receive. And the liberal elite have controlled the media message in this country for longer than I've been alive.
Which is why we are STILL in this mess.
3
You guys! Get a room! :D
2
Yeah that's why. It's the media.
If only the media told the truth about conservatives, maybe Trump would poll above 0% with African Americans in OH and PA.
That must be it. It's not Trump's own statements, it's the NYT.
Thanks for the clarification.
If only the media told the truth about conservatives, maybe Trump would poll above 0% with African Americans in OH and PA.
That must be it. It's not Trump's own statements, it's the NYT.
Thanks for the clarification.
2
Oh the NYT bubble. Right next to an Op-Ed about why the GOP can't get "real" with black voters is this romantic fantasy. The liberal message: blacks are helpless victims of poverty and racism. The conservative message: you are Americans.
12
Bingo!
4
The conservative message is more like "My African American", "what have subgroups accomplished" and retweeting the KKK at every turn.
3
I've got two words for you Mike:
#BlackTwitter
Check it out sometime, and get back to me about this racism stuff. MmmKay?
#BlackTwitter
Check it out sometime, and get back to me about this racism stuff. MmmKay?
6
Every two or three days in rural eastern NC, there are similar parties that invariably end in a shooting, a stabbing, or both. They are parties like that described in the article and are so common, that now people exclaim "It ain't a party til there's a shooting." The only people here I feel for are the poor neighbors who have to suffer the lack of consideration of the revelers.
35
[[The only people here I feel for are the poor neighbors who have to suffer the lack of consideration of the revelers.]]
This is exactly the point. And before we throw up our hands and wonder how on Earth this could possibly have happened, we should hear from the agency that manages these buildings as to why they let these disruptions go on.
This is exactly the point. And before we throw up our hands and wonder how on Earth this could possibly have happened, we should hear from the agency that manages these buildings as to why they let these disruptions go on.
3
Applause to the New York Times for trying to humanize this obscene issue. Last year in Marseilles, France, there was a rash of gang killings due to drugs. Each of the 18 deaths topped the TV and press news and was the subject of much discussion. At the same period, Chicago's deaths reached over 400 and it was simply a tiny box score on the front page. In other countries, people actually care about those murdered. Not in "Christian" America, I guess.
15
this story is tragic and many of the reader comments are baffling in their desperate desire to blame someone other than the murderer, as if stabbing someone rather than asking them to leave was forced on him by the victim or by our society.
11
There are three things I find vexing:
1) These party goers are people who don't respect the rights of others to peace and quiet.
2) The only mention of drugs in this article is a mother's addiction. A wild party, anyplace in the USA without drugs? The story isn't credible.
3) The Times continues to dissemble about NYC's historic homicide lows. NYC had safer eras. NYC's homicide rates have gone from horrific to terrible. The Times can start talking about historic homicide lows when New York is as safe as London or Belfast. Think of it. Today in Belfast, once the home of IRA terrorism, people are far safer than they are in NYC.
1) These party goers are people who don't respect the rights of others to peace and quiet.
2) The only mention of drugs in this article is a mother's addiction. A wild party, anyplace in the USA without drugs? The story isn't credible.
3) The Times continues to dissemble about NYC's historic homicide lows. NYC had safer eras. NYC's homicide rates have gone from horrific to terrible. The Times can start talking about historic homicide lows when New York is as safe as London or Belfast. Think of it. Today in Belfast, once the home of IRA terrorism, people are far safer than they are in NYC.
20
Probably the most important rule in the liberal catechism of the NT Times is that Black behavior cannot be criticized by whites. An unemployed Black man of employable age born to an unwed Black mother with multiple fatherless children who had no qualms about a mostly-white taxpayer base supporting these kids (boy, there's a rarity !). He attended another loud, disruptive, disrespectful-of-others party at which the violence so frequent at Black parties again reared its head. Sorry, but after the first several hundred of similar incidents I began to lose sympathy.
15
So sad. Such a senseless waste of a life of potential, now forever unrealized. From just trying to socialize and have a bit of fun, which is what people do. Life is full of randomness - sometimes it's like we're all pinballs, bouncing from bumper to bumper.
This was not a whole lot different from getting run down by a texting driver while crossing the street - it can happen to anyone. Considering how many times people are crossing the street every second of the day around the world, there's little chance it will happen to you or someone you love. But that small chance is always out there and there's no great moral lesson here.
We're just fragile, our lives can be taken from us in the blink of an eye. We know that, we rail against it, we search in vain for meaning in the face of life's arbitrary rule over us, its sheer wastefulness, but in the end we just go on. It's part of the price we pay to live.
This was not a whole lot different from getting run down by a texting driver while crossing the street - it can happen to anyone. Considering how many times people are crossing the street every second of the day around the world, there's little chance it will happen to you or someone you love. But that small chance is always out there and there's no great moral lesson here.
We're just fragile, our lives can be taken from us in the blink of an eye. We know that, we rail against it, we search in vain for meaning in the face of life's arbitrary rule over us, its sheer wastefulness, but in the end we just go on. It's part of the price we pay to live.
4
I notice the Times reporter has no interest in knowing how old Venice Quinones was when she gave birth to her son Vernon Hubbard. Or whether Mr. Hubbard's father was around to help raise him. Or whether the father even wanted to be around to help raise him. Or how many other children Ms. Quinones had by how many other absentee fathers. As if none of this matters.
I also notice the reporter appears uninterested in similar questions about Julian Hubbard, who was raised by his grandmother. Why was he raised by a grandmother instead of his parents? Where were the parents? As if none of this matters.
Well, I disagree. These matter a lot and should have been included in this article.
I also notice the reporter appears uninterested in similar questions about Julian Hubbard, who was raised by his grandmother. Why was he raised by a grandmother instead of his parents? Where were the parents? As if none of this matters.
Well, I disagree. These matter a lot and should have been included in this article.
57
publicitus --- exactly. The NY Times, disingenuously, would have you believe that the only cohort of whites anger/disillusionment/disgust at Black behavior are bitter, uneducated men resentful of Black success. The fellow whites I know who suffer from 'Negro fatigue' -- a bone-deep weariness of Black-on-White violence, dishonesty about innate racial differences, etc. -- are compassionate and well-educated baby-boomer professionals....sorry, Dorothy, but here in Oz there exist uncomfortable truths, the expression of which does not constitute white racism....
7
I don't care about Hubbard. His violent behavior makes him a criminal. He was looking to act out violently. There are no excuses for violence towards others. Plenty of people deal with the same circumstances or worse and do not become violent. Rabid people need to be constrained so they do not harm more people. This is just a basic right we should all have in our society to be safe from violence. And any one who violates it violates the social contract, goodbye, lock them up. Treat vioent behavior of any kind like drunck driving and see what happens. We would have civi society.
2
From Blood Meridian:
How these things end. In confusion and curses and blood. They drank on and the wind blew in the streets and the stars that had been overhead lay low in the west and these young men fell afoul of others and words were said that could not be put right again and in the dawn the kid and the second corporal knelt over the boy from Missouri who had been named Earl and they spoke his name but he never spoke back. He lay on his side in the dust of the courtyard. The men where gone, the whores were gone. An old man swept the clay floor within the cantina. The boy lay with his skull broken in a pool of blood, none knew by whom. A third came to be with them in the courtyard. It was the Mennonite. A warm wind was blowing and the east held a gray light. The fowls roosting among the grapevines had begun to stir and call.
There is no such joy in the tavern as upon the road thereto, said the Mennonite. He had been holding his hat in his hands and now he set it upon his head again and turned and went out the gate.
How these things end. In confusion and curses and blood. They drank on and the wind blew in the streets and the stars that had been overhead lay low in the west and these young men fell afoul of others and words were said that could not be put right again and in the dawn the kid and the second corporal knelt over the boy from Missouri who had been named Earl and they spoke his name but he never spoke back. He lay on his side in the dust of the courtyard. The men where gone, the whores were gone. An old man swept the clay floor within the cantina. The boy lay with his skull broken in a pool of blood, none knew by whom. A third came to be with them in the courtyard. It was the Mennonite. A warm wind was blowing and the east held a gray light. The fowls roosting among the grapevines had begun to stir and call.
There is no such joy in the tavern as upon the road thereto, said the Mennonite. He had been holding his hat in his hands and now he set it upon his head again and turned and went out the gate.
3
This story reflects the raw underbelly of American society. These are people twisting and turning; looking for an identity and wanting to belong to something but are finding it difficult to fit in. Therefore they create their own reality. We can blame alcohol, bad judgment or even life in the "projects" but this tragedy
begin when a mother felt so over whelmed she sent her children away in a cab. This is the outcome of a structurally unequal society, that seems to be getting worse each day.
begin when a mother felt so over whelmed she sent her children away in a cab. This is the outcome of a structurally unequal society, that seems to be getting worse each day.
5
Yes, a tragedy. But I think blaming this along racist lines misses the point here. Because, while in the city this happens in the projects, among poor blacks and Latinos, in rural areas this happens among young white people all the time. And it is also not unique to the US. It is the young, intoxicated male problem. It happens everywhere when somebody crashes other people's party. Particularly if the place is crowded. You come in uninvited, causing trouble, and brawls happen. Fighting happens. And if everybody is inebriated enough and weapons are at hand, injuries are likely to happen. Sometimes, like in this case, they are fatal. But by no means, this type of tragedy is endemic to East Harlem and South Bronx, unfortunately...
52
Put some numbers to your comment, please. How do the two populations compare? Without that information your comment holds little validity. What is the ratio of poor white violence to poor black violence? From what I've seen on Wikipedia, it certainly is racially biased. 800% more biased. I would say that is statistically significant. So, why are you trying to undermine that information?
5
I liked your comment, but this is about the violent South Bronx, a neighborhood in which black, brown, and white people live. It isn't really about black/brown people, who live in many neighborhoods that are not the South Bronx.
Black Lives Matter (only sometimes, apparently).
23
Tragedy is inevitable when entire communities don't have what they need. People in America are truly struggling and it isn't because of 'culture'. People want homes, quality jobs, and healthy families. Let's give struggling households a hand and support free daycare, drug treatment, and accessible health care including mental health services.
Americans deserve better, but we obsess over behavior and unimportant differences. Do we have the power to prevent the next Vernon Hubbard and Julian Washington, or are we going to give up and accept this desperate situation satisfied with merely judging and dismissing the humans involved?
Americans deserve better, but we obsess over behavior and unimportant differences. Do we have the power to prevent the next Vernon Hubbard and Julian Washington, or are we going to give up and accept this desperate situation satisfied with merely judging and dismissing the humans involved?
32
"Let's give struggling households a hand and support free daycare, drug treatment, and accessible health care including mental health services."
In return, is it too much to ask that "struggling households" avoid having numerous, uncared-for children out of wedlock, and that they make an effort to not consume street drugs until they lose their minds? If they won't make these basic changes in their lives, no amount of government assistance will help them.
In return, is it too much to ask that "struggling households" avoid having numerous, uncared-for children out of wedlock, and that they make an effort to not consume street drugs until they lose their minds? If they won't make these basic changes in their lives, no amount of government assistance will help them.
3
But why is it my fault or your fault that some don't have what they need? Yes, everybody wants the things that you mention but we're all struggling on some level. I work in a pretty lucrative industry and yet there are senior executives here who still cannot afford chemotherapy. This isn't about free daycare or drug treatment, this is about a society that accepts the fantasy that universal health care and education are not rights. If you watch "Where to Invade Next" or have no experience with European countries that actually use tax money to create a greater society for ALL, then you still believe that America is the greatest country on Earth. And it's not. But let's start with at least some personal accountability: When you are poor and untethered and you have no prospects, maybe you should think more about birth control. Creating more people to repeat your same hapless circumstances does nothing but perpetuate the vicious circle. Neither you nor I can stop teenaged girls from sleeping with multiple gang members and having multiple children whose futures are pretty desperate. Yes, we need universal health care and higher education. But we also need people-- everyone-- to understand that they have some control over their destinies.
Maybe we could use our taxes to pay for services for our own citizens instead of welcoming the world to the U.S. and shipping off $400 million to Iran.
3
There is a racist voyeurism in this article, akin to those sheltered white neoliberals who viewed The Wire and learned things they never knew. I sense a mystification in the tone of the writer, as though they can only speak about this event but cannot draw meaning from it. Simply pointing out murders is how the Times is highlighting this social problem? I get the feeling the Times writers have reached the limit of their understanding, colored as it is by erroneous neoliberal thinking on race.
29
You must have read an entirely different article.
1
Reading this, I am glad that I do not live in one of these 'projects' and have to suffer the noise of these parties (as described in the article); nor that I have to live amongst people who like hip-hop and gangsta-rap, who get drunk, and then become murderously violent.
Of course, we have our own council estates here in London and similar problems, although not generally as severe. The predominant culture in Britain is very different from that in the US. What is similar: the underclass and ethnic mix. Ditto in France.
Of course, we have our own council estates here in London and similar problems, although not generally as severe. The predominant culture in Britain is very different from that in the US. What is similar: the underclass and ethnic mix. Ditto in France.
29
Sound like good folks.
Wish I could party with them sometime.
Wish I could party with them sometime.
4
It tells a lot about people who decided to flee leaving
him alone bleeding.
him alone bleeding.
15
The main takeaway I got from this well written piece was that the party-goers actually spoke to the police- instead of the 'no ratting anyone out' response that has been said to be typical in these tragedies.
Maybe this will help others come forward with information in the future.
Maybe this will help others come forward with information in the future.
25
He was in the wrong place, at the wrong time, with the wrong people. We always have to be mindful of the company we keep. During my undergrad days, I was on campus at a PA university. As a freshman, I made friends with a girl named Kelly, who asked me to visit a guy who she liked on campus in one of the dorm rooms. We walked into the dorm room and it was full of his buddies, older men in their late 20s. There were no drinks and only music, and dancing. They locked the door and only let us leave after 4 hours. At one point, someone pulled out a gun. I remember thinking how horrified I and afraid at the same time. When I left I told my parents and through their influence separated from her. She dropped out later than year. Trouble is easy to get into and hard to get out of! Pick your friends and acquaintances carefully....a lesson for people of any age!
35
Poverty makes for bad choices. I enjoy reading about people, not so much about this murder, but their lives around the incident. It is sad the cards some people are dealt, but more bad choices on top of bad choices digs a deep hole. Generational poverty. The woman with all the tattoos, while reading the story I thought to myself she will probably get one as a memorial to the dead. Lo and behold there is a photo of it. This entire series following murders goes along well with a recent story naming the 4 schools still on the dangerous list. We are talking about K-8 schools being dangerous. How can 4th graders be dangerous? Then you get a glimpse of the adults that are raising them. The environment of multiple generations living in public housing. Adults incarcerated, addicted to drugs,untreated mental illness, the ones with nothing wrong making bad social choices. The lifestyle choice of so many in the hood is not good. Tattoos, ghetto clothing, jewelry, music... None of it leads to a productive adulthood. If I see one more neck tattoo I will go crazy. I am black and grew up in Brooklyn. The choices you make now will determine your future. Some of these people are way too comfortable with thier current lifestyle. You have to want to get out to get out. I know people who have 4 generations living in the same housing project complex, and proud about it. Their goal is to get on a project wait list for thier own project apartment. To me, that is self-systematic oppression.
139
Dee, thanks for your thoughtful reaction to the article. As I read your response I thought getting out of the projects is akin to a pilot trying to recover his plane that has gone into a death spiral: not many can recover from it. The forces around the plane are too great; and no matter the effort to pull out of the spiral it will generally end in tragedy. You and others who are fortunate to have made it out of there are the exception rather than the rule. Good luck to you
5
Well written. Many elements of article are classic examples of behaviors within generational poverty ... and not understood are adequately addressed is the unwritten rules of generational poverty.
I have seen some on this board write - how rude neighbors to have that party all night and make loud noises. That is noise is part of the communal living of the Bronx. You grow up with it. It is part of who you are ... part of a community. Many that have the reaction I just described are probably white, suburban middle class/upper middle class/limo liberals that segregate themselves in their tidy little neighborhoods and interact with neighbors when and if they have to do so. I know both worlds. Each has a plus and minus ... and unfortunately in the Bronx or rural West Virginia violence is common among the generational poor - booze, drugs and then enter the "strangers" ... or a "beef" between two people ... like the Hatfields vs the McCoys!
I have seen some on this board write - how rude neighbors to have that party all night and make loud noises. That is noise is part of the communal living of the Bronx. You grow up with it. It is part of who you are ... part of a community. Many that have the reaction I just described are probably white, suburban middle class/upper middle class/limo liberals that segregate themselves in their tidy little neighborhoods and interact with neighbors when and if they have to do so. I know both worlds. Each has a plus and minus ... and unfortunately in the Bronx or rural West Virginia violence is common among the generational poor - booze, drugs and then enter the "strangers" ... or a "beef" between two people ... like the Hatfields vs the McCoys!
It is smug to have a diagnosis and no thoughts about a cure.
2
I appreciate this kind of journalism. It is a sad story but a real one, and it creates a portrait — perhaps a biased one, but a portrait nonetheless — of what is really happening in certain parts of New York. I get the feeling that this kind of reporting might have been common at some point, but now it is much less so, because it's not sexy or glamorous, and you can't sell upscale real estate and luxury vacuum cleaners around it.
17
The evening does start out normally, and nice. Lots of family and friends, kind of communal. Where does it veer towards pathological? It's not just the alcohol - young people overdo it all the time - sexual assault arising from that happens frequently. But this wasn't a frat house, this was an apartment complex. Residents take people pills to block out Saturday night party noise. Now we are in a dysfunctional place, and between a culture that seems to allow for this, weapons, alcohol and perhaps drugs - disaster. I must say, the apartment hopping, the warmth, the social fabric, the friendship - I actually envy this! I live in a "nice" building where we remain in our little caves. Wouldn't it be nice if there could be a happy medium?
35
This article annoys me. It is written in a phony-poetic florid style (referring to "big bottles of Corona beer that were the communion cup of their gatherings" -- I hate flourishes like that with a burning passion).
What strikes me the most about this article is the reporter's attempt to downplay the victim's bad behavior. The victim showed up at a party he was not invited to. (He claims someone allowed him to go.) But the party was a FAMILY gathering to which he was not invited, he and his friends showed up and immediately started consuming the host's alcohol, dominating the gathering with their aggressive dancing, and this offended family members who had no idea who they were. In the tight confines of the living room where their dancing had escalated the tensions, someone got knocked over and punches started getting thrown. When you combine (a) their not being invited, (b) the annoyance of the family members, (c) their dancing causing at least one person to get knocked over, (d) people being incredibly drunk, (e) the tight confines of the apartment ... it is NO SURPRISE a deadly brawl took place.
Treating this as if it's a senseless occurrence is silly. A lot of bad behavior led to a combustible, predictable consequence.
What strikes me the most about this article is the reporter's attempt to downplay the victim's bad behavior. The victim showed up at a party he was not invited to. (He claims someone allowed him to go.) But the party was a FAMILY gathering to which he was not invited, he and his friends showed up and immediately started consuming the host's alcohol, dominating the gathering with their aggressive dancing, and this offended family members who had no idea who they were. In the tight confines of the living room where their dancing had escalated the tensions, someone got knocked over and punches started getting thrown. When you combine (a) their not being invited, (b) the annoyance of the family members, (c) their dancing causing at least one person to get knocked over, (d) people being incredibly drunk, (e) the tight confines of the apartment ... it is NO SURPRISE a deadly brawl took place.
Treating this as if it's a senseless occurrence is silly. A lot of bad behavior led to a combustible, predictable consequence.
153
Let's say you threw a party and some people who were not invited showed up. Would you assume that someone would wind up dead under those circumstances?? This is not civilized behavior, I don't care what the circumstances were.
5
Agreed
1
I think this has merit, but doesn't justify vioence. They could have escorted them out. The cousin was a murderer and will likely do it again. People like that are dangerous and nee dto be locked up permanently. Or until proven non-vioent or murderous.
1
Black Lives Matter of course. One reason (of many) is to avoid the exorbitant cost of burying black lives cut short by their brethren, a further travesty. I'll sully this comment with a topical aside: with a record 95,000,000 unemployed Americans, the highest since the Depression, "idle hands are the devil's workshop." Keystone Pipeline = 6,000 to 20,000 jobs.
6
"Keystone Pipeline = 6,000 to 20,000 jobs."
And massive environmental problems!
And massive environmental problems!
4
95 million unemployed? Only if you count everyone who is retired, underage, in school, in prison, disabled, etc. A meaningless number.
7
95,000,000 is almost one third of the entire population of the US (approx 325,000,000). i think your numbers and your logic are flawed.
1
I imagine many of the Times' readers will be bored by this story and feel it is pointless because it doesn't portray someone who is finding a cure for cancer, throwing a baseball 95 miles per hour, starting a new business venture, closing a deal to build a midtown high-rise, or working on their doctoral thesis. However the great majority of Americans are living their lives day to day, weekend to weekend and Mr. Washington seemed to fall into that category. Everyone has a story, however, and this piece brings that out. No moral, no great lesson, just life and ultimately, death.
14
Why do these inciden not draw the attentionts and scorn of the "Black Lives Matter" movement? I find it hypocritical to call out every police shooting but ignore the much larger issue of violence within inner city communities that seems to be accepted as the norm.
81
Perhaps to YOU it is a "much larger issue of violence." but Black Lives Matter is concerned with the rise of police violence and brutality towards Blacks, much as it was in the last century.
Trying to separate out a house party and the violence that occurs in personal spaces with teenagers and young adults? That sort of "policing" has to come thru the parents, guardians and the environment, which, in this case, seems to be rife with unemployed youth (another problem, since Black youth are the highest unemployment statistic). It is hardly a local phenomenon, and even very rich kids seem to end up in situations where tragic events occur. I, as a 65 year old Black man, am much more concerned about being in the streets, minding my own business and being killed by the police for no reason. I'm straining to see your logic: first we should get youngster - acting like youngsters (unfortunately) - "managed" and THEN ask why we are shot in the street, police cars, and jails in numbers far surpassing that of Whites??? Fix our homes and then the police won't shoot us? Right.
Trying to separate out a house party and the violence that occurs in personal spaces with teenagers and young adults? That sort of "policing" has to come thru the parents, guardians and the environment, which, in this case, seems to be rife with unemployed youth (another problem, since Black youth are the highest unemployment statistic). It is hardly a local phenomenon, and even very rich kids seem to end up in situations where tragic events occur. I, as a 65 year old Black man, am much more concerned about being in the streets, minding my own business and being killed by the police for no reason. I'm straining to see your logic: first we should get youngster - acting like youngsters (unfortunately) - "managed" and THEN ask why we are shot in the street, police cars, and jails in numbers far surpassing that of Whites??? Fix our homes and then the police won't shoot us? Right.
9
Agreed. Why does not the entire media focus on sad situations like this? Why is there not a Black Lives Matter - like institution to get the politicians like President Obama to give more visibility and social focus on these travesties. Where are Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson? Are not situations like the one in this article just as worthy of national attention and riots as police shootings, the number of which pale in comparison to black-on-black murders? And even black people actually try to rationalize these murders are less noteworthy, than police shootings. I have no problem with prosecuting rogue police officers and systems - it needs to be done. What is being done, where are the protests, where are the politically charged statements to foment action about the thousands of black on black killings? Sick.
Brion,
Your rant does nothing to explain why this victim was stepped on and over by the majority of party goers AFTER the threat had left the scene. The hypocrisy is right there. Instead of embodying what Black Lives Matter should instill in all of us, which I personally feel is the notion that all are to be respected and not be pre-judged, these folks decided the rest of their evening (and of course not to be hassled by the cops) was more important than helping this man.
Do you think it is rational and effective to target this movement just on law enforcement? How does that help the larger issue sir and prevent you from being shot in the street by anyone?
Your rant does nothing to explain why this victim was stepped on and over by the majority of party goers AFTER the threat had left the scene. The hypocrisy is right there. Instead of embodying what Black Lives Matter should instill in all of us, which I personally feel is the notion that all are to be respected and not be pre-judged, these folks decided the rest of their evening (and of course not to be hassled by the cops) was more important than helping this man.
Do you think it is rational and effective to target this movement just on law enforcement? How does that help the larger issue sir and prevent you from being shot in the street by anyone?
Also, "Social Circles Collide on a Dance Floor" isn't as accurate as "Drunken Brawl Erupts in Tiny Apartment."
"Social Circles Collide on a Dance Floor" is how you would describe "Saturday Night Fever."
"Social Circles Collide on a Dance Floor" is how you would describe "Saturday Night Fever."
73
How about "Trespassing is Dangerous?"
1
I remain surprised that not only do some not seem to read the entire article before commenting, but some chalk this up to some vague reference to "culture," whatever that is supposed to mean.
Yes, likely many of us do know what the writers mean even as the writers would say they aren't prejudging, just stating the facts. Whatever.
But if it's "culture," why not a culture of masculinity? A culture that suggests men must be ready and willing to be violent at all times, no matter how stupid the so-called "reason." That women who live in these contexts (and we all do) have to learn either to throw punches and be prepared or somehow rely on a man to do that for her. The escalation of violence in this situation is not at all uncommon, whether it's at a white boy frat party, in a so-called "domestic" sphere between family members, at schools, at a bar, or otherwise.
So while the particulars of this case make it unique in some ways (which is the point of this series for those who didn't realize it--to show readers the human lives and experiences behind statistics), overall, this is not uncommon.
We accept that a young man (especially) can be both a fun-loving guy and violent. We accept that young men drinking is "normal," if problematic. Some here accept that the victim here somehow brought it on by entering a party he wasn't invited to, even though that has no more merit than a woman getting raped somewhere she wasn't first invited to.
Let's get real.
Yes, likely many of us do know what the writers mean even as the writers would say they aren't prejudging, just stating the facts. Whatever.
But if it's "culture," why not a culture of masculinity? A culture that suggests men must be ready and willing to be violent at all times, no matter how stupid the so-called "reason." That women who live in these contexts (and we all do) have to learn either to throw punches and be prepared or somehow rely on a man to do that for her. The escalation of violence in this situation is not at all uncommon, whether it's at a white boy frat party, in a so-called "domestic" sphere between family members, at schools, at a bar, or otherwise.
So while the particulars of this case make it unique in some ways (which is the point of this series for those who didn't realize it--to show readers the human lives and experiences behind statistics), overall, this is not uncommon.
We accept that a young man (especially) can be both a fun-loving guy and violent. We accept that young men drinking is "normal," if problematic. Some here accept that the victim here somehow brought it on by entering a party he wasn't invited to, even though that has no more merit than a woman getting raped somewhere she wasn't first invited to.
Let's get real.
12
Careful, please, in speaking for me and others. I am most assuredly am NOT in a context where I need to throw punches or rely on a man to do it for me. I don't accept calling someone both fun-loving and violent (and so forth). Please feel free to discuss your reality, not mine, not others. Thank you.
1
Crashing a party given by people you don't know, especially if you start consuming their booze and food and dominating space and acting like you belong somewhere you weren't invited, but were actually told to stay away from, seems like guaranteed trouble. And that goes for any neighborhood, in any city. This article doesn't even address the victim's culpability in his own death. I know that sounds horrible, but there is the issue of personal responsibility here: don't go where you don't belong, don't hoover other people's booze as if it were your own, don't invade other people's territory: if you do, you might get trouble, and you are responsible for bringing that trouble on yourself. I grew up knowing those rules, all of us did.
84
They were NOT told by the person having the party to stay away: he clearly stated, "Yes, it's lit, she said we can come down." Do you read without prejudice aforethought or did you insert your own prejudices at the start of the story? Completely disturbing you managed to miss the part where Mr. Washington ASKED FOR - AND RECEIVED - permission to attend. We must be reading different stories - or coming to the table without a "guilty" verdict at the very forefront of our mind. Fair-minded much?
Disagree. I'm pretty sure Miss Manners wouldn't advise murdering a party crasher. Also-- the person wielding the knife was not even the host.
They could have been thrown out. The guy who killed him is a murderer. Get real! He was looking to kill people. he need sto be locked away forever.
Thank god it's hard to buy semi-automatics in NYC and harder still to carry.
15
But this murder was done with a knife, the kind every house has in the kitchen drawer. The point is if someone wants to kill, be it by gun (which agreeably are too leniently allowed to be purchased) or kitchen knife or by a truck like in France, it still ends up with the same unfortunate ending.
We need to find the common denominator, and it isn't a specific weapon, it's a mindset that has to be addressed.
We need to find the common denominator, and it isn't a specific weapon, it's a mindset that has to be addressed.
7
No Rick, it does not end the same and you are missing the point entirely. Yes, if you want to commit murder just pick up a rock, get behind the wheel of a car, break a beer bottle.
But in a room packed with people a whacko intentionally swinging knives with the announced intent to kill everyone 'only' took one life. How many dead would there be if he had been shooting a gun?
But in a room packed with people a whacko intentionally swinging knives with the announced intent to kill everyone 'only' took one life. How many dead would there be if he had been shooting a gun?
2
A tragedy.
The most telling line: ..."ran downstairs looking for a police officer."
The most telling line: ..."ran downstairs looking for a police officer."
25
Wow.
Lots of blaming the victim among the comments. Blaming of "life styles." Blaming of "culture."
Poor folks have many parties (they're generally far more sociable than their more "successful" fellow citizens) and it extremely is rare for deaths to occur--- or even serious injuries.
It is obvious that this is a freak occurrence, directly attributable to the serious previous injury and its subsequent affect upon the alleged attacker.
Or not.
I would remind my fellow readers that the frequency of such crimes is just as common in white communities when similar income and education are considered.
Lots of blaming the victim among the comments. Blaming of "life styles." Blaming of "culture."
Poor folks have many parties (they're generally far more sociable than their more "successful" fellow citizens) and it extremely is rare for deaths to occur--- or even serious injuries.
It is obvious that this is a freak occurrence, directly attributable to the serious previous injury and its subsequent affect upon the alleged attacker.
Or not.
I would remind my fellow readers that the frequency of such crimes is just as common in white communities when similar income and education are considered.
13
Really? How are they "more sociable" and how would you know?
3
Babies make babies, no father around, no jobs to be had. No one wants to learn, no one can make them. Now a large segment of our society wants to eliminate and criminalize birth control. What could go wrong. I don't care who is elected president, this insanity will never end unless aliens attack earth.
48
"Now a large segment of our society wants to eliminate and criminalize birth control. "
Truth to tell: That large segment would be the Catholic Bishops and wing-ding Republican politicians!
Truth to tell: That large segment would be the Catholic Bishops and wing-ding Republican politicians!
4
We need better ideas than the giant asteroid....
Tragic story, all too common...
Reading the comments troubled me, though.
People select from among a handful of so-called facts of the case and then lugubriously maunder on about the whys and wherefores and ways that such tragedies might be avoided in the future
Issues raised include age, race, sex, occupation, neighborhood, culture, economic environment, child abuse, parents, parties, booze, drugs, weapons, character, manners, aggression, the times...
I sincerely hope no one has any illusions that you've identified a cause-effect relationship here and/or you know how to prevent such tragedies from being part of the human condition.
If you do, read some Shakespeare and get back to me.
Allow me to offer my heartfelt condolences to the family and friends of the dead man.
Reading the comments troubled me, though.
People select from among a handful of so-called facts of the case and then lugubriously maunder on about the whys and wherefores and ways that such tragedies might be avoided in the future
Issues raised include age, race, sex, occupation, neighborhood, culture, economic environment, child abuse, parents, parties, booze, drugs, weapons, character, manners, aggression, the times...
I sincerely hope no one has any illusions that you've identified a cause-effect relationship here and/or you know how to prevent such tragedies from being part of the human condition.
If you do, read some Shakespeare and get back to me.
Allow me to offer my heartfelt condolences to the family and friends of the dead man.
19
Agreed.
Mr. Washington broke one cardinal rule of New York, going to a party in which you weren't invited. I am not blaming the victim.
I lived in the South Bronx back in the early 1960's to late 1970's. We teens would hear about a party and go. Teens were always looking for a Friday or Saturday night party. House parties were very common. Sometimes they were rent parties (having a party and selling food to pay the rent). It could be a little dangerous to even have one because it was not uncommon for strangers to show up. It was and apparently still is dangerous to show up to one uninvited.
Although we did it a couple of time in our naivety, we quickly realized it was *not* a good idea to go to someone's house we didn't know. Although I engaged in under-aged drinking, I never drank to drunkenness. I also didn't use drugs. I would pretend I had already had some. Just saying, "Naw, I'm good" to avoid peer pressure to take drugs.
Sadly, I watched really nice kids gradually go downhill. The telltale signs of using drugs enough to keep me away from them.
Unlike Mr. Washington, I did not come from a neglectful family. I came from a family where we had summer jobs or worked in a family business and were taught values that probably annoyed us at the time. Where my brothers, nice, polite young men were often mentored by Jewish business owners. We never had a problem getting a job. We simply moved away, bought houses in nice areas and got on with living.
I lived in the South Bronx back in the early 1960's to late 1970's. We teens would hear about a party and go. Teens were always looking for a Friday or Saturday night party. House parties were very common. Sometimes they were rent parties (having a party and selling food to pay the rent). It could be a little dangerous to even have one because it was not uncommon for strangers to show up. It was and apparently still is dangerous to show up to one uninvited.
Although we did it a couple of time in our naivety, we quickly realized it was *not* a good idea to go to someone's house we didn't know. Although I engaged in under-aged drinking, I never drank to drunkenness. I also didn't use drugs. I would pretend I had already had some. Just saying, "Naw, I'm good" to avoid peer pressure to take drugs.
Sadly, I watched really nice kids gradually go downhill. The telltale signs of using drugs enough to keep me away from them.
Unlike Mr. Washington, I did not come from a neglectful family. I came from a family where we had summer jobs or worked in a family business and were taught values that probably annoyed us at the time. Where my brothers, nice, polite young men were often mentored by Jewish business owners. We never had a problem getting a job. We simply moved away, bought houses in nice areas and got on with living.
78
Thanks for saying that, about the Jewish business owners. Often we get a bad rap. I work for my family business, and we are currently trying to show one young men how to work, what being an employee means, what the standards are. This particular guy doesn't seem to get it, sadly. He keeps asking if he can wear this or that, arguing with his manager as if they're on the same level, behaves perhaps as if he's in school. We've been in business for decades, and employing people - a lot of young guys - is what we do. If we've been able to give young people a positive start, that's great.
44
). It could be a little dangerous to even have one
------------------
It was always dangerous to do that, from the news reports I've seen for decades now. Folks party down, lots of them, and that attracts the sharks.
------------------
It was always dangerous to do that, from the news reports I've seen for decades now. Folks party down, lots of them, and that attracts the sharks.
3
Even the article reads like a well-written, old-school New York crime story, which, more often than not, has a lesson attached. The good news is you don't have to experience the lesson to learn the lesson, all you have to do is read the article. Thankfully, you learned the lesson early.
4
How many of these young people were from one-parent (or one-grand parent) families? How many of their parents have been in prison or currently are in prison? How many of these young people have children of their own? How many of these young people have decent jobs or attend/attended college? How many of these young people have hope? How many are just going through the motions?
33
your points don't fit the narrative the NY Times seeks to paint.
Sorry. The common thread in these series is the wretched failures of parents and the miserable lives and early deaths of their children.
A loving grandmother can't, in most instances, make up for the terrible early beginning these murdered and murderers experienced.
A loving grandmother can't, in most instances, make up for the terrible early beginning these murdered and murderers experienced.
38
At the end of this expose, where the Times is covering every murder in a Bronx precinct, can we please see a statistic of who the murderer and victim were with a breakdown of age and race? Also please note if either was a police officer.
14
Dennis -- we know the answer to that !!! And if NYT does print a racial breakdown, it will be followed by 36-paragraphs of 'context' where the words and phrases 'Emmett Till, racism, Rosa Parks, Jim Crow, inferior schools, institutional racism', and ' access to education' will be pounded into the reader's cranium. Afterward it will appear that the Black murder rate is low, given all the provocation eck man...il White society presents the downtrodden Blac
2
public housing is a problem. It needs to be replaced by much, much higher section 8 public vouchers. In this manner people living in these can move to middle and upper middle class neighborhoods as well as schools. This will improve their lives as well as the neighborhoods they move to.
Yet the middle and upper middle class neighborhoods oppose this. WHy the racism?
Yet the middle and upper middle class neighborhoods oppose this. WHy the racism?
6
Not if baltimore county has anything to do with it.
Read the article to find out.
13
[[Yoda Washington DC
public housing needs to be replaced by much, much higher section 8 public vouchers. In this manner people living in these can move to middle and upper middle class neighborhoods as well as schools. This will improve their lives as well as the neighborhoods they move to.
Yet the middle and upper middle class neighborhoods oppose this. WHy the racism?]]
Why your own racism? Why do you imply that "middle and upper middle class" equates with "white"?
If you increase section 8 rates, all that does is make housing less affordable for the working poor. If a landlord in a ghetto can make an extra two hundred a month, he'll take it. And if the single mother working at McDonalds can pay the rent, out she goes.
public housing needs to be replaced by much, much higher section 8 public vouchers. In this manner people living in these can move to middle and upper middle class neighborhoods as well as schools. This will improve their lives as well as the neighborhoods they move to.
Yet the middle and upper middle class neighborhoods oppose this. WHy the racism?]]
Why your own racism? Why do you imply that "middle and upper middle class" equates with "white"?
If you increase section 8 rates, all that does is make housing less affordable for the working poor. If a landlord in a ghetto can make an extra two hundred a month, he'll take it. And if the single mother working at McDonalds can pay the rent, out she goes.
1
Wonder where the "black lives matter" crew are on this murder?
There is no question why there are issues with police here- we are expecting them to act as social workers, clergy, and parents- because they have been failed by ALL of the above groups. And the only organization that trust exists in these failed projects- NYPD- becomes the focus of the failure.
Enough blame to go around. However, no courage to improve.
There is no question why there are issues with police here- we are expecting them to act as social workers, clergy, and parents- because they have been failed by ALL of the above groups. And the only organization that trust exists in these failed projects- NYPD- becomes the focus of the failure.
Enough blame to go around. However, no courage to improve.
32
This series is a good concept. Media is often accused of cherry-picking the stories they want to tell with a political agenda in mind.
8
And the Times wants to understand why they're seen as far left of center?
19
Is it far left of center to cover every murder in a precinct without picking and choosing?
Should it say "This person chose to be born poor and Black which is a really bad idea in America and then he compounded that problem by being abused by a drug addicted mother and being separated from his siblings. After the only family member who loved him died, instead of picking himself up and going to work on Wall Street, he hung around being depressed and going to weekend parties. That was a really bad idea"
Are you saying that if you lived this life you would have somehow gotten a Ph.D and a 1.5 million house in Cambridge? Have you ever lived without wealth? Do you know how well you'd do? How many generations ago was your family poor?
Should it say "This person chose to be born poor and Black which is a really bad idea in America and then he compounded that problem by being abused by a drug addicted mother and being separated from his siblings. After the only family member who loved him died, instead of picking himself up and going to work on Wall Street, he hung around being depressed and going to weekend parties. That was a really bad idea"
Are you saying that if you lived this life you would have somehow gotten a Ph.D and a 1.5 million house in Cambridge? Have you ever lived without wealth? Do you know how well you'd do? How many generations ago was your family poor?
1
You don't have to be rich to apply good judgment to any given situation.
3
Instead of being indirect perhaps you can enlighten us?
[[The throbbing music seemed, from the start, like a volatile addition to the blend of alcohol and suspicion. Out of the tangle of bodies, no two people emerged with the same memory of what went wrong.]]
I'll tell you what went wrong. The management of the public housing project allowed a wild, loud party to take place after a reasonable hour. If the guy hand;t been killed, the party would have gone on until all hours.
[[Some neighbors, to blunt the weekend noise, had taken sleeping pills and wedged mats in their entryways.]]
So, simple solution. First time police are called to your unit for noise = warning. Second time = $500 fine. Third time = eviction.
The editors of the Times simply need to ask themselves what they would do if there was "throbbing" music coming from a neighbor's apartment at midnight and whether the people in public housing who have to drug themselves to get a night's sleep deserve the same amount of respect and peace and quiet.
I'll tell you what went wrong. The management of the public housing project allowed a wild, loud party to take place after a reasonable hour. If the guy hand;t been killed, the party would have gone on until all hours.
[[Some neighbors, to blunt the weekend noise, had taken sleeping pills and wedged mats in their entryways.]]
So, simple solution. First time police are called to your unit for noise = warning. Second time = $500 fine. Third time = eviction.
The editors of the Times simply need to ask themselves what they would do if there was "throbbing" music coming from a neighbor's apartment at midnight and whether the people in public housing who have to drug themselves to get a night's sleep deserve the same amount of respect and peace and quiet.
76
Must there be a photo of a dead body on the front page of the Web site?
6
In a word? Yes.
What's so horrible about showing someone who is at peace?
No more bills to pay, no more worries, no more sickness.
We're all going to end up there.
What's obscene is how he died.
What's obscene is how little value people place on each other's life.
If putting this image out in the open stops someone's death, then they
can do it every day as far as I'm concerned.
I just lost a nephew this way. Eighteen years old just out of high school and it makes me sick.
What's so horrible about showing someone who is at peace?
No more bills to pay, no more worries, no more sickness.
We're all going to end up there.
What's obscene is how he died.
What's obscene is how little value people place on each other's life.
If putting this image out in the open stops someone's death, then they
can do it every day as far as I'm concerned.
I just lost a nephew this way. Eighteen years old just out of high school and it makes me sick.
9
I beg to differ. Generally, the NY Times does not put large photos of dead bodies lying in caskets in the beginning of a story. It was not necessary here.
The photo drew me in and the plight of these people kept me reading. The unrelenting suffering of which I read is heart wrenching.
I take exception with the phrase "an archipelago of public housing". If the purpose of this series is to humanize this loss, then this portrayal of the place where people live does nothing but transform them into "other". We need to be mindful of every word choice. Our goal should be to build connections and create a better understanding and respect of our fellow humans.
While the overall goal of the series is noble, we need to find concrete ways to treat mental illness, educate and employ all those who can.
I take exception with the phrase "an archipelago of public housing". If the purpose of this series is to humanize this loss, then this portrayal of the place where people live does nothing but transform them into "other". We need to be mindful of every word choice. Our goal should be to build connections and create a better understanding and respect of our fellow humans.
While the overall goal of the series is noble, we need to find concrete ways to treat mental illness, educate and employ all those who can.
9
An archipelago is a chain or cluster of Islands. Nothing really pejorative about the term on it's face.
If it is to mean that the projects are like a group islands in the sea that is New York City, then who can really argue with that?
Like the Gulag Archipelago of Stalin's time, maybe their usefulness has been exhausted.
If it is to mean that the projects are like a group islands in the sea that is New York City, then who can really argue with that?
Like the Gulag Archipelago of Stalin's time, maybe their usefulness has been exhausted.
7
The phrase is apt. Most readers, including people living in public housing and people in general living outside of NY, know exactly the type of public housing set up the writer is referring to because it was characteristic only of a certain era. Each building has its own culture and safety level separate from the other buildings in the group and, yes, all are disconnected in one way or the other from the "mainland." The writer very effectively draws us out of the distancing metaphor to unfold a tragedy that begins with a woman who made a home there and was celebrating, like any of us would, her recovery from a scary disease by throwing a well-intentioned "staid" party .
1
People live on archipelagos though
This could have happened in any social and economic circle in the world. Mr. Hubbard is suffering from ptsd and appears to have snapped after a trigger event at the party. It is sad and very common that the only mental health resources he receives will be in prison. My condolences to the family and friends of Julian Washington.
17
There is no claim he had PTSD, there is no claim he ever sought mental health help, and there is certainly no claim such help was denied him.
8
It's not that simple. Can't simply blame mental health here.
6
Risky to crash a party of strangers you were neither invited to nor properly attired for theme. You can run into an evil madman like Hubbard.
51
You can run into an evil madman anywhere, anytime, as recent events have amply proven.
2
This sad article reminds me of the many senseless deaths and tragedies I encountered during a career in LE, many that were fueled by the excessive consumption of alcohol. It seems that alcoholic beverages are considered 'safe' when compared to other drugs. We need to be reminded of the dangers inherent; in this case, a man got drunk and turned into a raging murderer.
109
It's not the alcohol, it's the culture..if this had been a college fraternity party with lots of alcohol, there would not have been a stabbing. Just lucky there was no gun involved.
6
No, just rapes.
8
Oh, I see. So it's ok to judge one group of people but not another?
I'm an avid reader and a slow one as well. Determined slow by the fact that I have to look up words in the dictionary and reread some sentences for understanding. But at the end of the day, this remains a senseless act: one, that it is so much of a common occurrence here in America.
27
Great that you take the time to look up and reread..You make it your business to understand whats going on and that is a credit to you!..
5
Why this ennobling of another young death/murder ?
Sad, senseless, unnecessary.... But are we now in a glorification of such tragic wastes ?
Sad, senseless, unnecessary.... But are we now in a glorification of such tragic wastes ?
23
I think the senseless tragedy aspect is what's important about this. And how this kind of tragedy seems to mostly strike in just a few precincts in NYC, particularly those where peoples' instinct is not to help the police with criminal investigations.
5
Some people seem predestined to violence. It's in the cards for them, sad.
20
I was born and raised in the South Bronx. We lived at 353 Cypress Ave across the street from PS 65. St. Mary's Park was just up the street. The towers had not yet been built. My earliest memories of the Bronx are at about age 3 in 1950. We all lived in poverty. But, there were no projects and there was less crowding. The cops walked the beat on the street and they knew you, where you lived and your mom and dad too. We all knew each other.
I can't imagine the Bronx as described in this report. We lived in peace. We went to school, walked in the park, played stoop ball, rode our bikes. The neighborhood was good, decent and quiet. Despite poverty (no one had money back then) we all got along. There were no drugs. Little crime. The streets were safe. So were the alleys.
What was different then, what made that old neighborhood peaceful was simply this; Every man and woman who lived there had just returned from service to their country in World War II. They had a couple of goals. Get a job. Raise a family. Finish their education through the GI Bill and then hopefully move out to Long Island or out to New Jersey and get a home in the suburbs. Maybe own a car some day. There was no time for complaining. No one looked for government handouts, food stamps, welfare, housing assistance or medical care at the emergency room.
The big difference then and now is jobs. Jobs were plentiful. Wages rose. People could lift themselves up. There were no projects. Tear down the projects.
I can't imagine the Bronx as described in this report. We lived in peace. We went to school, walked in the park, played stoop ball, rode our bikes. The neighborhood was good, decent and quiet. Despite poverty (no one had money back then) we all got along. There were no drugs. Little crime. The streets were safe. So were the alleys.
What was different then, what made that old neighborhood peaceful was simply this; Every man and woman who lived there had just returned from service to their country in World War II. They had a couple of goals. Get a job. Raise a family. Finish their education through the GI Bill and then hopefully move out to Long Island or out to New Jersey and get a home in the suburbs. Maybe own a car some day. There was no time for complaining. No one looked for government handouts, food stamps, welfare, housing assistance or medical care at the emergency room.
The big difference then and now is jobs. Jobs were plentiful. Wages rose. People could lift themselves up. There were no projects. Tear down the projects.
178
They built the projects and filled them with people who have no work--not smart then or now
49
My memories are the same. We moved there when I was nine. It was a traumatic for me because I had lived on the West Coast where I had never seen a project, drug addicts, or anything else. We played barefoot in Golden Gate Park and walked to school alone.
However, back then, there were no gangs. At least no gangbangers. If young men had a dispute, they fought with their hands. If someone were shot, it was always in the leg or buttocks, rarely was there an intent to kill. Any violence was distant. My uncle owned a restaurant that did very well. No bars on windows, me and my cousin worked the restaurant by ourselves with no fear of ever being robbed. He carried the night's receipts home in brown paper bags.
I saw people going to work every day and coming home in the evenings. There was always the old lady who sat in the window who watched us kids and squealed on us if we were ever doing wrong.
I was taught to be polite, obey the laws, table manners, to never litter and that poor didn't mean that soap and water couldn't be afforded. We painted that which needed painting and bought used furniture that we repaired ourselves.
In the end, it taught me that people are people and we kids decided it was not the worst experience. We are all homeowners, younger brother retired military, older brother served this country in Viet Nam.
We were surrounded by grandparents, aunts and uncles. Most people are shocked to find out we lived there, expecting stereotypes.
However, back then, there were no gangs. At least no gangbangers. If young men had a dispute, they fought with their hands. If someone were shot, it was always in the leg or buttocks, rarely was there an intent to kill. Any violence was distant. My uncle owned a restaurant that did very well. No bars on windows, me and my cousin worked the restaurant by ourselves with no fear of ever being robbed. He carried the night's receipts home in brown paper bags.
I saw people going to work every day and coming home in the evenings. There was always the old lady who sat in the window who watched us kids and squealed on us if we were ever doing wrong.
I was taught to be polite, obey the laws, table manners, to never litter and that poor didn't mean that soap and water couldn't be afforded. We painted that which needed painting and bought used furniture that we repaired ourselves.
In the end, it taught me that people are people and we kids decided it was not the worst experience. We are all homeowners, younger brother retired military, older brother served this country in Viet Nam.
We were surrounded by grandparents, aunts and uncles. Most people are shocked to find out we lived there, expecting stereotypes.
14
If you tear down the projects, its current inhabitants will become homeless.
1
It's always the people who live in communities like South Bronx whose tragedies are presented as visual spectacles for the masses to consume. What makes for compelling reporting seems to have different standards for different communities...
17
Maybe if the people in these communities stop creating these horrific "spectacles," the stories would end. A great deal of tragedy is borne out of poverty, but it is clear that a great deal more is borne out of lifestyle choices. You may not be able to choose your income level in this country, but you can certainly choose not to have child after child that you can't afford. Or you can choose to raise that child with enough common sense not to repeat the cycle.
As an aside, why would you consider this type of reporting sensationalizing to create a spectacle, and filling the front page of the paper with a shooting by a police officer not? The lives in these communities have to matter to the people in these communities, regardless of who is putting them at risk.
As an aside, why would you consider this type of reporting sensationalizing to create a spectacle, and filling the front page of the paper with a shooting by a police officer not? The lives in these communities have to matter to the people in these communities, regardless of who is putting them at risk.
5
First of all, I am from that community. Secondly, these types of scenes happen in all communities and the fact that the Upper Eastside, Buckhead, or Druid Hills is rarely given a front page story with the same tone of this one if the criminal was from that community is because wealth and privilege encourages the media to be more discreet and less "reality telivised". If you want to expand your own view try reading Susan Sontag's book Regarding the Pain of Others.
As an aside, did you and I have a conversation about my feelings on police shootings that I am unaware of? Also, what makes you think that the people in communities like South Bronx don't matter to them??? The assumptions you have made are as far-fetched as your interpretation of my point: A photograph of a casket with a dead person on the front page,shows no respect to the dead, especially when the same photo can be rotated with trivial headlines like "The United States in Literature" featuring a photo of the gas station Citgo. Why not go ahead a dance and make love in a place of worship while your at it...get my point. Probably not.
As an aside, did you and I have a conversation about my feelings on police shootings that I am unaware of? Also, what makes you think that the people in communities like South Bronx don't matter to them??? The assumptions you have made are as far-fetched as your interpretation of my point: A photograph of a casket with a dead person on the front page,shows no respect to the dead, especially when the same photo can be rotated with trivial headlines like "The United States in Literature" featuring a photo of the gas station Citgo. Why not go ahead a dance and make love in a place of worship while your at it...get my point. Probably not.
how do the sexual orientations of the protagonists figure so prominently in the reporting of this murder?
16
@BABKA1 - I'm sure there was noting malicious in mentioning his sexuality. It was part of who he was but not all of who he was.
23
The mentions are context:
How did Washington and Vargas become best friends? (They had dated as teens, and then broke up romantically when they realized she was gay and he was bisexual).
Why was Washington spending time in Vargas's neighborhood? (His hangout with other gay men in lower Manhattan was disappearing due to gentrification, and he was looking for another place to socialize.)
Nothing salacious -- just a fuller picture of his life and Vargas's life.
How did Washington and Vargas become best friends? (They had dated as teens, and then broke up romantically when they realized she was gay and he was bisexual).
Why was Washington spending time in Vargas's neighborhood? (His hangout with other gay men in lower Manhattan was disappearing due to gentrification, and he was looking for another place to socialize.)
Nothing salacious -- just a fuller picture of his life and Vargas's life.
7
Agree. Not quite understanding why this was published in the first place. Seems to me people made bad choices. Perhaps the highlight of the NYTs should be of all people making good choices, highlighting opportunities this country provides.
Don't crash small parties with a large group of friends, and then drink up the liquor? Seems like a good survival strategy.
152
I think it's less a survival guide and more an expose on what's really happening. It's easy to distill into one or two thing he "did wrong". Unfortunately it's not that simple, IMO. This dude had a hard road, made some big mistakes. It's not black and white
1
Such a sad story ! This is certainly a picture of current days, and not only in the U.S. My heart goes out to the friends and relatives of Mr. Washington. May he rest in peace and be remembered fondly by those who love him.
5
Very difficult to read this. Chokes me up. Just kids dancing and one person loses it and it's all over. Booze is trouble a lot of the time, it toys with lower instincts and you can become overreactive.
Time to get out the rosary again. I've been saying a lot of them lately. I urge everyone not to turn to bitterness and anger but be the best person you can be for Julian. And for Vernon, he didn't know what he was doing. HIs life's a mess now. Sending you all love and hope for better times.
Time to get out the rosary again. I've been saying a lot of them lately. I urge everyone not to turn to bitterness and anger but be the best person you can be for Julian. And for Vernon, he didn't know what he was doing. HIs life's a mess now. Sending you all love and hope for better times.
46
Really good reporting. Anyone who thinks that gun control is the key to a lower murder rate should think twice after reading this piece.
16
Um, no.
If he had had a gun even more people would be dead.
He would have shot up the entire place.
If he had had a gun even more people would be dead.
He would have shot up the entire place.
14
Really? How many people do you think would be dead if the killer had had a gun and not a knife? Murder is murder, but you can kill a whole lot more people a whole lot faster with a gun than you can with a knife.
7
If they'd had guns there would have been 5 dead, not 1
1
It's reporting like this that humanizes the statistics that we so often hear about. The team who wrote this piece did a great job of painting the picture of a person with hopes and dream, cut short by the reality of a drunken brawl and a knife.
24
Wow - this really seems senseless. Sad for Julian Washington
14
Good work by the NYTimes to underscore that each of these senseless losses is so much more than a statistic. The death of someone like Julian Washington diminishes all of us, his life had tremendous value, and it's important to periodically remind ourselves that no death is "just another statistic". And that's true whether the death occurs in a housing project or a mansion.
This is all basic knowledge that most of us possess, but sometimes fail to appreciate. The NYTimes does well to remind us of the stories that lay behind the police blotter entries.
This is all basic knowledge that most of us possess, but sometimes fail to appreciate. The NYTimes does well to remind us of the stories that lay behind the police blotter entries.
145
This is just all so sad. Gun, young men, testosterone, booze, drugs...America just look away. Again. Is this tragic, or just pathetic? There are no easy answers, except guns are too easy to get a hold of. If we really wanted to get rid of guns, we could. If we really wanted to lock up killers, and not lock up non-violent offenders, we could.
10
Steak knives are pretty easy to get, as well.
14
This narrative has nothing to do with guns. The young man was stabbed.
15
You should read the article before posting. The murder weapon was a kitchen knife.
15
What really drew me to this article was that harrowing picture of a young man in his coffin, a very jarring image to say the least. As I read I was just overwhelmed by the confusion of the incident and senselessness of the murder. Undisciplined lives coming from, well, other undisciplined lives. When will this cycle stop?
115
Crystal, the cycle will stop when the participants in the cycle learn that being dependent on the government - i.e. Liberals - for handouts is a death spiral.
When the country realizes that the Welfare State is what causes this "cycle", then perhaps we will see true change by phasing it out. So long as a group of people are not required to earn their keep and instead have it given to them, noting that it is ripped away from others who do earn their keep, that group has no reason to escape the black hole it's in.
When the country realizes that the Welfare State is what causes this "cycle", then perhaps we will see true change by phasing it out. So long as a group of people are not required to earn their keep and instead have it given to them, noting that it is ripped away from others who do earn their keep, that group has no reason to escape the black hole it's in.
1
Karlos, do you take a tax deduction on your mortgage? That's a government handout. Are you in a death spiral?
4
Sad day for social circles. Mental illness is becoming wide-spread, even in our Presidential candidates.
19
God bless this man and his family. I am disturbed, however, that the main image for this article is of such a private moment of Mr. Washington and a friend mourning his life. I feel that if Mr. Washington were of a different color and economic class, he would not be shown in such a way.
31
Agreed, Emilie.
The protocol breach was unnerving and stuck me as disrespectful to Mr. Washington and his family.
The protocol breach was unnerving and stuck me as disrespectful to Mr. Washington and his family.
Yes, bless this man and his family and all of us. And shame on us for allowing this to continue and do nothing about guns, letting it ravage, on a daily basis the communities of a different color and economic class and do nothing.
But I disagree about not showing this image. We need to show more of it. We need to show what really happens. This is a sweet image in my view. Quite frankly, I believe we should show the bodies on the street, before the tidying up, to show what really happens out there.
Then maybe, just maybe, we can get some action.
RIP Julian, RIP.
But I disagree about not showing this image. We need to show more of it. We need to show what really happens. This is a sweet image in my view. Quite frankly, I believe we should show the bodies on the street, before the tidying up, to show what really happens out there.
Then maybe, just maybe, we can get some action.
RIP Julian, RIP.
2
I would be surprised if those pictured were not aware of the photographer's presence or of they had not consented to the publication. It is of great importance that people understand the impact of these horrific stories unfolding throughout our country and photo-journalism is a powerful communication tool. I am glad that the photo was published as it ads depth to a story which needs to be told with clarity and compassion, and without filters.
10