It's time for main stream electronic media to ask follow up questions when Trumpo obfuscates. I'm talking all the morning shows which have given him millions if not a billion or two in free fawning coverage since his surreal campaign started last September.
If he doesn't answer a question ask it again and again and again until he bloody well answers it or admits he refuses to answer because he has no idea what he's talking about it.
Now we're in general election mode it's time for the press to do their job for the sake of our democracy and call out the demogauge's lies or idiotic ideas. To paraphrase a Gore campaign sticker from 2000 "vote for the competent one, it's important." Enough of us didn't in 2000 and the world has gone to hell in a hay wagon ever since.
If he doesn't answer a question ask it again and again and again until he bloody well answers it or admits he refuses to answer because he has no idea what he's talking about it.
Now we're in general election mode it's time for the press to do their job for the sake of our democracy and call out the demogauge's lies or idiotic ideas. To paraphrase a Gore campaign sticker from 2000 "vote for the competent one, it's important." Enough of us didn't in 2000 and the world has gone to hell in a hay wagon ever since.
17
It's not just manufacturing jobs, it's everything. In healthcare, imaging is read in places like India. In Banking, software is written in India. I can go on and on. Who are we kidding. From Verizon to Dell, every company outsourced service jobs. We had to put up with idiots answering as tech support for years.
This has been going on since the 80s while politicians blabber about lack of education.
Is it any wonder the trend in outsourcing of our jobs, matches perfectly the rise of money in politics?
Why doesn't the NYT give us information about outsourced government jobs from municipalities to Federal government. I bet the list is long.
And as for manufacturing, somehow Germany managed to keep theirs and we are supposed to believe our losing was inevitable. They have a trade surplus, we have a trade deficit. Why are we trading if we can't make money at it?
Stop giving us excuses and give us the way out.
This has been going on since the 80s while politicians blabber about lack of education.
Is it any wonder the trend in outsourcing of our jobs, matches perfectly the rise of money in politics?
Why doesn't the NYT give us information about outsourced government jobs from municipalities to Federal government. I bet the list is long.
And as for manufacturing, somehow Germany managed to keep theirs and we are supposed to believe our losing was inevitable. They have a trade surplus, we have a trade deficit. Why are we trading if we can't make money at it?
Stop giving us excuses and give us the way out.
32
The "politics of nostalgia" is corporate media propaganda. I would use a stronger word but then the NY Times censors would refuse to print my comment. Our trade policy is a travesty which takes middle and working class paychecks and transfers them into the pockets of the rich. This is the only issue on which I agree with Trump, although I don't think he can be trusted to follow through if he is somehow elected. Trying to preserve and create good American jobs while supporting corporate "free trade" is like trying to bail water out of a ship while not repairing a huge hole in the hull. And this doesn't even address the loss of sovereignty involved in empowering corporations to attack our laws in special corporate-friendly trade "courts," Face it, corporate media. Trump's right and you're wrong on this one.
14
Ever since Donald Trump secured the Republican nomination for president, I have characterized him as a classic RINO or 'Republican In Name Only.' Now that I have read about his economic speech in Pittsburgh, and his plan to make the U.S. steel industry the 'backbone' of our economy, I can admit that I was wrong. Trump isn't a RINO after all.
The leadership of the Republican Party has spent the last eight to ten years denigrating opponents and obfuscating facts. When they are presented with evidence disproving their arguments they wave it away as if facts and scientific evidence is the province of idiots and fools.
We've heard that Dodd Frank regulations are hurting banks and the Affordable Care Act is killing jobs. They've said that cuts to entitlement programs are crucial to economic growth and increasing military spending is the only way to ensure our physical safety.
Since the presidential election in 2000, the GOP has done an excellent job messing up our economy. That's why the Republican Party and Donald Trump are perfect together, they both have trouble telling the truth.
The leadership of the Republican Party has spent the last eight to ten years denigrating opponents and obfuscating facts. When they are presented with evidence disproving their arguments they wave it away as if facts and scientific evidence is the province of idiots and fools.
We've heard that Dodd Frank regulations are hurting banks and the Affordable Care Act is killing jobs. They've said that cuts to entitlement programs are crucial to economic growth and increasing military spending is the only way to ensure our physical safety.
Since the presidential election in 2000, the GOP has done an excellent job messing up our economy. That's why the Republican Party and Donald Trump are perfect together, they both have trouble telling the truth.
11
How ironic. On August 3, 1980, Reagan went to Philadelphia, Mississippi to extol state's rights to working class Whites who felt betrayed by the Democratic Party's support of civil rights. Now, on June 28, 2016, Trump has gone to Monessen, Pennsylvania to extol the virtues of protectionism and trade wars to working class Whites who feel betrayed by the major political parties’ support of NAFTA and the TPP.
The more things change, the more they stay the same. The GOP is still the party of demagogues.
The more things change, the more they stay the same. The GOP is still the party of demagogues.
9
Besides his economic ideas opposing the standard GOP agenda, they also run counter top common sense. During his Trade Address today, Trump said that George Washington vowed, during his 1779 Inaugural Address, to keep the manufacturing jobs in America.
I can't imagine how the Fact Checkers are going to attach that whopper. You see, President George Washington died in 1799; but, the Industrial Revolution didn't begin in the Colonies until 1820.
So Donald, was that trash pile behind you, during your address, a subliminal indication of the content of your ideas?
https://thetruthoncommonsense.com
I can't imagine how the Fact Checkers are going to attach that whopper. You see, President George Washington died in 1799; but, the Industrial Revolution didn't begin in the Colonies until 1820.
So Donald, was that trash pile behind you, during your address, a subliminal indication of the content of your ideas?
https://thetruthoncommonsense.com
7
Let's c the Supreme Court rules against an anti abortion amendment and Trump says nothing . He wants to change free trade deals the Republicsn party supports. What else does he have to do to convince the party he does not stand for their values or anyone else's but himself .
3
Time for a Trumpxit.
13
Yes, please, let's go back to those good ole widget-making days. Let's make America "great again". Let's all try really hard to re-create the 1950's childhood Donald Trump wishes he could have had.
12
Sorry, but a steel worker who made 35-50K per year with union health benefits is not equivalent to a health care worker who makes 18,000 per year with nothing. The numbers might look good, but the reality is something else.
26
Is Donald using/buying American goods or is he buying and shipping jobs to Asia like everyone else.
Do as I say, not as I do. What a great leader.
Do as I say, not as I do. What a great leader.
11
Trump is only playing on the anger and remorse of the working class over the ruined manufacturing jobs. In truth, he will do nothing on trade, but make more money for the billionaires, his pals.
17
Trade per se isn't the problem. Trade pacts that protect the bloated profits of corporations (e.g., Big Pharma), and allow those corporations to destroy the environment, and exploit workers in poverty-stricken countries are the problem. Add pacts that allow corporations to sue nation-states for profits they might realize if the nation-states enact regulations protecting the environment or workers. Look at what NAFTA has done already. The TPP is many times worse.
19
It would be interesting to know just how much American steel has gone into Trump buildings.
10
How much longer will the Chamber of Commerce support the Republican Party? Tearing up trade agreements hurts more than it helps. Supporting research, technology, innovation, and education will help Americans more than these negative policies like building walls, tearing up agreements and alliances, stopping everyone at the border due to their religion. None of this seems much like America.
What exactly did Donald Trump and Rupert Murdoch talk about on Saturday during their golf game and dinner? Murdoch strongly supported Brexit through his tabloids.
What exactly did Donald Trump and Rupert Murdoch talk about on Saturday during their golf game and dinner? Murdoch strongly supported Brexit through his tabloids.
5
How appropriate is it that this huckster is speechifying in front of a wall of garbage?
14
As ridiculous as Trump is, he realizes that "key business interests" are in no position to openly press reasonable arguments. Only Clinton can do that. Which puts her in a bind.
1
Sorry, but most of the NYT commenters are missing the boat.
Ken says that technology and products have moved on. There is much truth in that, yet some are in use in other countries and being sold back to us.
Bill says that Trump can't do all that he's promised, which is certainly true (also for Hilllary), and that it will cost jobs and lower wages, which is highly debatable.
MG and others mention automation, which is definitely a long term structural challenge that may dwarf offshoring and low wage immigration.
Many look down their noses at blue collar Trump supporters as naive, foolish, low information, racist, etc.
You just don't get it. I'm from Western PA and I know how many people suffered from globalization. These are mostly decent, hard-working people who have nothing left to lose. Right or wrong, Trump's message is resonating, and the condescending attitude of the elites is magnifying it.
Voting for Trump may be a suicide mission, but it's the only mission they have left.
Ken says that technology and products have moved on. There is much truth in that, yet some are in use in other countries and being sold back to us.
Bill says that Trump can't do all that he's promised, which is certainly true (also for Hilllary), and that it will cost jobs and lower wages, which is highly debatable.
MG and others mention automation, which is definitely a long term structural challenge that may dwarf offshoring and low wage immigration.
Many look down their noses at blue collar Trump supporters as naive, foolish, low information, racist, etc.
You just don't get it. I'm from Western PA and I know how many people suffered from globalization. These are mostly decent, hard-working people who have nothing left to lose. Right or wrong, Trump's message is resonating, and the condescending attitude of the elites is magnifying it.
Voting for Trump may be a suicide mission, but it's the only mission they have left.
16
Ah, Trump, trying to be all things to no people.
3
First, can you please provide us the average wages and benefits paid to the displaced steel workers compared to the 66,000 health industry jobs? I'm pretty sure the disparity is significant in favor of the steel workers.
This is part of the fabric of the lie told to the American people when we were told "free" trade might eliminate "some" jobs, but it will create so many new ones.. Yeah, minimum wage, part time, no benefits, non-union protected jobs. I wouldn't all that a fair trade.
And it's not just about manufacturing jobs. It's not important what type of jobs they are, it's important that they pay a living wage and provide some security. If the jobs are in other industries, fine, but let's create them!
The bottom line is that if we don't start sharing the prosperity that the 1% and corporatocracy have enjoyed for decades, we're headed for a bigger crash than '08.
This is part of the fabric of the lie told to the American people when we were told "free" trade might eliminate "some" jobs, but it will create so many new ones.. Yeah, minimum wage, part time, no benefits, non-union protected jobs. I wouldn't all that a fair trade.
And it's not just about manufacturing jobs. It's not important what type of jobs they are, it's important that they pay a living wage and provide some security. If the jobs are in other industries, fine, but let's create them!
The bottom line is that if we don't start sharing the prosperity that the 1% and corporatocracy have enjoyed for decades, we're headed for a bigger crash than '08.
22
Believe me....
Teleprompter Trump will reopen the steel mills in Youngstown and Buffalo and Pittsburgh.
Aqua-Net Don will reopen leather and shoe mills in New England.
Psycho Don will reopen textiles mills in South Carolina, and furniture production in North Carolina.
Buggy whips will again employ hundreds.
Why just returning production of Trump Junk will employ hundreds of thousands of millions.
Believe me.
Anyone believe Teleprompter Trump would know section 2205 of NAFTA without a teleprompter?
Oh by the way opposition by the Chamber of Commerce and NAM makes me like Der Trumpenfuhrer.
Teleprompter Trump will reopen the steel mills in Youngstown and Buffalo and Pittsburgh.
Aqua-Net Don will reopen leather and shoe mills in New England.
Psycho Don will reopen textiles mills in South Carolina, and furniture production in North Carolina.
Buggy whips will again employ hundreds.
Why just returning production of Trump Junk will employ hundreds of thousands of millions.
Believe me.
Anyone believe Teleprompter Trump would know section 2205 of NAFTA without a teleprompter?
Oh by the way opposition by the Chamber of Commerce and NAM makes me like Der Trumpenfuhrer.
6
It would be fascinating to hear Neil Irwin's views on "free trade" after he had been replaced by a far more knowledgeable and elegant writer from Mexico, China, India or Timbuctoo. Or a writer no better than he is, but willing to work for 10% of his wages, and no benefits.
Luckily for him, his bosses at the Times won't hire such people and his union would probably have something to say about the wages the Times would have to pay.
Too bad the peons don't have such protections. If they did, they probably wouldn't have voted for Trump.
Luckily for him, his bosses at the Times won't hire such people and his union would probably have something to say about the wages the Times would have to pay.
Too bad the peons don't have such protections. If they did, they probably wouldn't have voted for Trump.
12
Trump is the ultimate traveling salesman, the do-anything-say-anything kind. He can read a crowd with real insight, he knows just how to sell to whoever's unlucky enough to be standing in front of him, will promise them whatever he needs to in order to close the sale. His only concern is what he gets out interaction and transaction. He is a brilliant marketer and manipulator, so much so that his audience don't care if he's being truthful for they want to believe, they're there for the olde tyme barn-raising, preacher tent revival. We need Clinton to combat that, fight it off. She's needs someone smart enough to fight off Trump's sloganism and militant nationalism.
10
Does anyone who used to vote republican actually care that Trump does not know what he is talking about, and has the character of a shyster ?
8
Trump is the ONLY presidential candidate the Republicans have ever had, at least since Reagan, who is not a reliable toady of Wall St. and the top .1% who normally buy them, and the Israel Lobby who buy them too. No wonder he gives everyone from George Will to Commentary Magazine the willies. His whole campaign has been based on telling the Republican base the truth that they have been total suckers of the economic elite for decades, since the elite has used wedge issues to con the clods into voting for candidates devoted to making the rich richer through screwing the "little guy," who always gets poorer and poorer from the very things that enrich the rich: globalization, free trade, and technology. How can the Republicans put their Humpty Dumpty con=job of a party back together again, whether Trump wins or is crushed? The jig is up. The lemmings have finally woken up to how the Republicans have tricked them. How can you put those Republican blinders for the rich back on the dummies again when Trump is through?
7
Thank you for making Trump sound like the know-nothing gasbag that he obviously is.
4
does anyone get the idea that DT never has a clue what he is talking about? Even with a teleprompter? And in the midst of his ravings, no matter what the topic, his remarks are usually made in some other language besides standard English. He is by far, the most ignorant political contender since Admiral Stockade and his "Who am I and why am I here?" back in 1992
3
After Pittsburgh and Bernie latest OpEd NYT missive, its getting kind of scary how Trump and Bernie are starting to sound a like...
Their slogans even fit in together...Make America Great Again, A Future To Believe In...
This *in the rear view mirror* driving style for economic policy is going to drive us permanently off the financial cliff. Pretty, pretty, crazy stuff...
Maybe Bernie is being vetted as Trump's VP?
And their ardent followers just continue to angrily stand by their man, and their convictions, blaming it all on the elites.
Their slogans even fit in together...Make America Great Again, A Future To Believe In...
This *in the rear view mirror* driving style for economic policy is going to drive us permanently off the financial cliff. Pretty, pretty, crazy stuff...
Maybe Bernie is being vetted as Trump's VP?
And their ardent followers just continue to angrily stand by their man, and their convictions, blaming it all on the elites.
6
The Hillary Clinton arm of the democratic party voted down DNC platform changes that would include backing a $15 minimum wage, anti -TPP language and a ban on fracking. Hillary seems to be more in step with the neoliberal's in Brussels who write big checks to the Clinton Foundation and want a centrally planned world, rather than the working class American voter. Unfortunately, I am finding it easier and easier to hold my nose and vote Trump for four years and then look toward a brighter future in 2021.
6
We are in the middle of a major shift in our country, out of manufacturing and into knowledge and service based industries. This cannot be reversed because the infrastructure not longer exists in the US. If you think it is hard to get a solar plant built, try to get permits for a steel mill! What is a problem is that Washington and the press continue to ignore or pretend that there have been minimal impacts of this shift. To quote a Springsteen song: "These jobs are gone boys, and they ain't coming back."
Rather than ignoring the problem, we need to find a way to help those impacted by the change. We need to find a way to help them were they are. You are not going to get a 50 yr old ex-steel worker to train as a medical assistant in Boston. Ignoring this issue will get the US into the kind of trouble the British have stumbled into when THEY ignored the concerns of their older and rural voters.
Lastly, as much as I hate to say it, I agree with Trump that we have to get tougher with China, but not for his reasons. The Middle Kingdom has demonstrated that they are not our friend. This being the case we should not be enriching them with our business. They take our $billions, send us cheap junk, and then build/buy aircraft carriers which we will be facing in the South China Sea. Let's stop being stupid about this, give our business to people who are our friends. How about giving some business to the British? They are going to need a partner!
Rather than ignoring the problem, we need to find a way to help those impacted by the change. We need to find a way to help them were they are. You are not going to get a 50 yr old ex-steel worker to train as a medical assistant in Boston. Ignoring this issue will get the US into the kind of trouble the British have stumbled into when THEY ignored the concerns of their older and rural voters.
Lastly, as much as I hate to say it, I agree with Trump that we have to get tougher with China, but not for his reasons. The Middle Kingdom has demonstrated that they are not our friend. This being the case we should not be enriching them with our business. They take our $billions, send us cheap junk, and then build/buy aircraft carriers which we will be facing in the South China Sea. Let's stop being stupid about this, give our business to people who are our friends. How about giving some business to the British? They are going to need a partner!
9
Trade deals are only part of this equation, and not the fundamental problem. In my view, it's the emphasis on so-called "shareholder value" that has destroyed jobs. The only measure of corporate success these days is a high stock price, measured quarterly, and good jobs and decent wages are in direct conflict with that goal.
This emphasis on shareholder value was initiated and enforced by a number of corporate raiders over the past 40 years, but one of the most prominent, and the one relevant here, is Carl Icahn. How interesting that he is one of the very few businessmen supporting Trump!
Makes you wonder, does Trump understand ANYTHING about business?
This emphasis on shareholder value was initiated and enforced by a number of corporate raiders over the past 40 years, but one of the most prominent, and the one relevant here, is Carl Icahn. How interesting that he is one of the very few businessmen supporting Trump!
Makes you wonder, does Trump understand ANYTHING about business?
8
Moving away from free trade will not make anyone more prosperous. Brexit will not make Britain more prosperous.
2
As bad as Trump is, I'm still so relieved that Ted Cruz is gone...I hope forever. He was and is the worst politician since Joe McCarthy.
6
Profits without dividends income without taxes, productivity without investment, dollars hidden in swiss francs. Golly Donald, what's not to like?
3
It will be interesting to see how long the Donald can blowhard his way forward, without doing any sort of preparation or homework. He doesn't seem to understand issues and seems allergic to complexity and nuance. But c'mon: when is he going to insist that delegates be allowed to bring firearms to the Republican convention? Put your money where your big mouth is, Mr. Trump.
2
Mr. Trump is not suggesting all Americans head back to the steel mills. He is advocating for trade deals that are more favorable to US businesses, including manufacturing. Even Hillary Clinton says she will invest billions in "shove ready jobs" but is she willing to fight to make sure our bridges and infrastructure are built from US steel. The answer is no. Hillary is a globalist whereas Mr. Trump wants America to have the best chance of success. Donald J. Trump will Make America Great Again - not in the "nostalgic" way you write about but in the way that America looks out for itself and doesn't let global interests dictate our success. #Trump2016
3
Why bother to manufacture anything if nobody has the money to buy it?
2
The only thing this guy knows how to build are pyramids, and I don't mean actual buildings, but pyramid schemes...
4
At some point the rich have to start paying their share. Corporatism has damaged the county overall.
8
Maybe Donald The Terrible should pick Crazy Bernie as his running mate. Both want to take America back to the 1950's
2
I remember reading a NYT magazine article several years ago that manufacturing merchandise for Walmart accounted for 1% of China's GDP. Sometime along the way, we in North America decided we wanted to fill up our rather large homes with as much stuff as possible, but for the absolute cheapest price. How better to deliver that than to go to the cheapest manufacturing locations in the world....Asia. For years, we haven't been willing to buy less but higher quality at the true cost of a North American business paying its workers a liveable wage. We reap what we have sowed.
3
So is Trump U training any factory workers? Building some factories?
Or is it still just about bilking people who actually believed in Trump?
2
The only good thing about the Trump campaign is that it will enrage the US Chamber and the NAM, who have been owned by the Republican party.
By the way, some progressives favor international trade because it makes the world more peaceful, productive, and prosperous (overall).
By the way, some progressives favor international trade because it makes the world more peaceful, productive, and prosperous (overall).
4
Mr Trump loves the uneducated. He makes this pitch and excites those who do not look beyond the statement itself. "Did you hear what he said? I'm going to get my job back. I'm voting for him" Amazing, but sadly, true.
2
If global trade is good, then MORE global trade is better. And more and more - until of course no one is working, since everything will come from elsewhere - though priced nicely cheap.
The USA is getting there. It just needs a nudge from Hillary Clinton and from the Chamber-of-Commerce Republicans - an unholy alliance.
The USA is getting there. It just needs a nudge from Hillary Clinton and from the Chamber-of-Commerce Republicans - an unholy alliance.
3
It is the machines, not trade agreements that we need to be fearful of.
1
No one -- not the Clintons, anyone in Congress, including Sanders, or Obama these past 8 years-- has focused on the devastating effect of the global economy on the American worker. I can only say, "It's about time!"
Trade is absolutely necessary, but so is watching out for the American worker. Trump is right. It doesn't have to be this way. He might not have all the answers, but he certainly has identified the right problem.
Trade is absolutely necessary, but so is watching out for the American worker. Trump is right. It doesn't have to be this way. He might not have all the answers, but he certainly has identified the right problem.
6
Some day the bill is going to come due. At that point all our food-serving and dental-assisting isn't going to buy us any more Chinese phones, clothes, microwaves, or medicines.
The traders and 'advisors' of the financial industry will be ok. They'll still be selling their services overseas.
But the rest of us will be in the position the Romans were in in 500 AD.
The traders and 'advisors' of the financial industry will be ok. They'll still be selling their services overseas.
But the rest of us will be in the position the Romans were in in 500 AD.
5
"The U.S. Chamber of Commerce and the National Association of Manufacturers rapidly took to Twitter to blast Mr. Trump’s plans as likely to lead to “higher prices, fewer jobs and a weaker economy,” as the Chamber’s official account put it."
And who is it that represents the companies that exported their manufacturing and have now adopted the phrase; "Made in China, But designed in the U.S.A."?
I'm really not in sync with this article. I'm on the workers side, not the unpatriotic business leaders.
"Higher prices, fewer jobs, and a weaker economy"? I get it! They meant China!
And who is it that represents the companies that exported their manufacturing and have now adopted the phrase; "Made in China, But designed in the U.S.A."?
I'm really not in sync with this article. I'm on the workers side, not the unpatriotic business leaders.
"Higher prices, fewer jobs, and a weaker economy"? I get it! They meant China!
5
66,000 health care jobs? RNs? Or poorly-paid nursing home assistants? Please be specific.
8
There are way too many unemployed and underemployed people in the Pittsburgh region. Why can't there be jobs in manufacturing as well as in health care, banking, and professional services?
6
My family depends on a high wage, high skill job that is completely dependent on the Chinese economy! The high wage, high skill job is in America and the firm is American but ALL the main customers for the industrial product are in China (and Japan and Korea). Trumps kills the US-China trade relationship and we are all in a world of hurt!
2
Yes, the party of free markets and capitalism has now become the party dominated by racism. That explains Trump. Period.
Why are fast-food workers pushing for $15/ hr? Lack of manufacturing jobs and trade schools.
Why is college so expensive? One reason is lack of trade schools and the push to get every student into college - and immediately into remediation classes so they will be ready for college- level work.
We just rebuilt the eastern span of the Bay Bridge -> with Chinese steel - hundreds of millions of taxpayer money to China. I agree with Trump - let's upgrade the US infrastructure with American labor and American steel.
Why is college so expensive? One reason is lack of trade schools and the push to get every student into college - and immediately into remediation classes so they will be ready for college- level work.
We just rebuilt the eastern span of the Bay Bridge -> with Chinese steel - hundreds of millions of taxpayer money to China. I agree with Trump - let's upgrade the US infrastructure with American labor and American steel.
6
“Today I am going to talk about how to make America wealthy again,” he said. America is wealthier than ever, but it just happens that billionaries like him have stowed all that extra wealth!
2
"total American steel output is about the same now as it was in 1990, even with far fewer workers."
Shout it from the rooftops. And note that the same can be said of every area of manufacturing. There is a quote that goes "Ford used to make hundreds of cars with thousands of workers. Now it makes thousands of cars with hundreds of workers."
And NAFTA, in the words of Mae West, "has nothing to do with it."
Shout it from the rooftops. And note that the same can be said of every area of manufacturing. There is a quote that goes "Ford used to make hundreds of cars with thousands of workers. Now it makes thousands of cars with hundreds of workers."
And NAFTA, in the words of Mae West, "has nothing to do with it."
5
Technology has slashed the need for human labor in every industry. America needs to invest in education - grade school through college - if we hope to have any chance of maintaining and improving the US standard of living.
5
I couldn't help but noticing the remarkable similarities on the just concluded 'Brexit' campaign and the US presidential campaign so far. You wouldn't really able to fathom out the consequences of some of the populist proclamations coming out , for which neither adequate thinking or planning has been done , until after the act is done. And , in the end, it may not be always what the public who went with it really wanted.
1
Would Donald Trump agree to putting all his business in a "blind trust ' if elected? As he appears to micromanage those businesses, I rather doubt it. We need a full-time president. He certainly will not be that person.
The issue Mr. Trump is addressing is not jobs in any one industry. It is without the slightest doubt that our jobs have gone overseas. Then the companies, AMERICAN companies that go overseas, running their plants with foreign workers for pennies on the dollar compared with American workers and selling their cheap made goods back to the USA from which they stole....er, transferred jobs, get rich from the lower paid American workers that pay for these foreign made goods. And then to really put their corporate finger in your eye, they keep the profits out of the USA so they dont need to pay taxes on their income! By the way, you forgot to mention the wages of the steel workers versus the wages of the health care workers. The steel workers were way beyond the 'living wage' that the NY Times so admirably advocates while the 'health care worker' average might be surpassed by the Fifteen per hour MINIMUM wage in many cases.
4
Trump persuades voters because he talks plainly, and usually without a script. Thus, it doesn't sound canned like something from a talking-points factory, and because it's not canned, it sounds sincere, so most people, who tune out anything complex (we are human, and not all of us can HANDLE complex ideas or are NOT INTERESTED) tune out.
To stop him, his opponents must learn to boil down their speeches (Hillary sounds scripted) and they / we must know the content (yes, it IS complicated) so well that they can TALK about it without sounding canned.
Thus far, the only two well-known politicians I can think of who have mastered this gift are Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren. Thankfully, Ms. Warren seems to be coaching Hillary, and I'm starting to notice some improvement.
To stop him, his opponents must learn to boil down their speeches (Hillary sounds scripted) and they / we must know the content (yes, it IS complicated) so well that they can TALK about it without sounding canned.
Thus far, the only two well-known politicians I can think of who have mastered this gift are Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren. Thankfully, Ms. Warren seems to be coaching Hillary, and I'm starting to notice some improvement.
3
The only new jobs Donald Trump will create are jobs for fact checkers; we'll lots of them as long as he keeps talking.
2
Trump has united the AFL CIO and the Chamber of Commerce
who oppose his views. Amazing.
who oppose his views. Amazing.
1
"Nostalgic Donald"'s claims not only oppose key Republican interests, they also oppose reality. Please correct your headline. I'm 60 years old; I wish I could turn back the clock and be 30 again. It ain't happening, any more than the Donald can magically return the US to 1950....
1
Once all the money of the baby boomers , who worked and saved during much better times for our country is used up, how are the 66,000 health care workers going to make a living? By taking care of the newly poor americans who's factory jobs or just decent paying jobs in general have disappeared? Providing services to poor americans won't provide employment for long.
3
Anything coming out of Trump's mouth is subject to change, before the end of his temporary rant! This carnelian shape-shifter gauges his audiences fervor and adjust accordingly. Devoid of any scruples, he'll say anything and attack anyone at any given moment. Anyone that kowtow's to him and kiss's his ring, get's his sanctimonious praise! He's the lowest common denominator! As a fellow Viet Vet, I thought what he said about John McCain was despicable! “He was a war hero because he was captured. I like people who weren’t captured.” Unreal, coming from someone who's service to our country was a farce! Another plutocrat that thinks us pheasants are just wage-slave peons!
Oh the tyranny of small details: 5,000 steel jobs lost, 66,000 healthcare jobs created, and America is still producing about the same tonage of steel as 30 years ago. "Don't confuse me with facts. I like my populous political arguments simple - with white victims and foreign bad guys !" said the average Trump supporter.
Not to be too dramatic, our world is in the midst of a major international realignment. None of the old pegs fit in the old slots anymore. The Republican and Democratic establishment understand this. The question is what kind of leadership is necessary to whether the instability. Trump is risky, open fascism no one wants, it might rally the masses temporarily, but it would be disastrous long term and forever damage the social fabric beyond repair. On the other hand, Clinton offers the neo-liberal pragmatic approach which in some ways is just as risky as Trump. However, domestically it's more palatable. Will Clinton be enough? I think that's the question everyone is holding their breath on.
1
One of the reasons we run budget deficits and lack public resources to invest in American infrastructure (which could consume a lot of Trump's steel or cement production) is we have shifted our tax base from relatively high personal income taxes on working people paid salaries to people paid with stock option, carried interest tax privileges, and other forms of compensation taxed at lower levels. We need to increase our tax take from speculation as that would provide funds for investment in infrastructure, research and development, and human capital development. This means taxing transactions in the stock market, higher capital gains taxes after IPOs, taxing capital gains on sales of art and antiques, and other arenas where speculation rather than substantive investment is a primary driver. Money to pay for good jobs at good wages needs to come from somewhere and that somewhere is from those profiting in the financial sector. In a broader sense we need to reverse the shift of income from the working class to the rentier sector. The fastest way to do that is tax policy coupled with a broad commitment to investment budgeting rather than policies encouraging concentration of wealth. As several comments here and elsewhere point out part of the housing crisis in the American city comes from the capacity of the wealthy to outbid the middle class for housing. We can use tax policy to create the capacity to purchase the kinds of products Trump's proposals aspire to manufacture.
3
Trump may get his chance to deliver on his promises. The electoral swing states are made up of states in the rust belt: pa, Ohio, and many more. Here is where the left behind factory and mining workers still live (and vote). If Trump carries enough of those left behind voters in strategic states, Trump becomes the dog that caught the car. Trump just cannot deliver on those jobs but I do not think he really cares. Paul Ryan and Mictch McConnel will send Trump bills,,Trump will sign, and we get the great Ryan conservative experiment. Good luck with that, but maybe we have to try it. Really globalization is here to stay, what we could use is a plan for the left behind workers. Capitalism is not going to generate the jobs but I am not going to mess with our state religion tonight. Some day, we might try either massive public works programs or the universal basic income. One could examine the experience of the 1930!s WPA but don't romanticize the WPA, very mixed results there, it took WW II to put us back to work, not the WPA. The WPA program is worth a study and a new try. As for the universal basic income, Alaska has something like the UBI, every Alaskan citizen gets a cut of the oil profits, which is just great when those profits are high (not the case right now). Still, the Alaskans like it. Once coal was oil. Maybe we owe those out of work coal miners something for their ancestors building this country. Paying for a WPA or UBI for the left behind?? Gulp!
1
Trump misses an essential point when he considers issues relating to globalization, namely, the globalization of, well, the globe. If elected President, Trump will negotiate to return the United States to an earlier era where the earth actually was flat.
Flat earth policies would be consistent with Trump's intellectual outlook and historical perspective. Further, such policies would return the world to an earlier time where boundaries between nations were clearly drawn. Of course, one drawback of flat earth policies would be - what happens if a ship sails past the edge of the earth and falls off?
Flat earth policies would be consistent with Trump's intellectual outlook and historical perspective. Further, such policies would return the world to an earlier time where boundaries between nations were clearly drawn. Of course, one drawback of flat earth policies would be - what happens if a ship sails past the edge of the earth and falls off?
1
I do not understand the rigidity with which they negotiate an intended free trade treaty among member countries regardless of huge differences, social, economical, historical, and geographical. This dogmatic approach spurred by free market theology benefits who are already powerful and hurts ordinary workers. To crack the mindset we are forced to live in without noticing it, we would need a bombastic blast like Trump's.
2
Yes Trump is a genius. He thinks he can alienate most of the population but can count on disaffected, less educated white males in a handful of swing states plus those that typically vote Republican to eke out an election victory.
Good luck with that.
Good luck with that.
4
It would be helpful to illustrate with a graph the increased US manufacturing output over the last several decades overlaid with the corresponding decline in manufacturing jobs. Overwhelmingly Americans believe that manufacturing output has declined in the U.S. The media has uniformly failed to impress the public with the facts.
8
Trump is promising new jobs in declining industries like coal and steel, and some Americans are sadly lapping it up. For example, steel demand has been in decline globally, while Chinese companies have glutted the market with steel. But Trump is promising to bring jobs in an industry where demand has gone down but there is a glut in supply?
Now, Trump will probably tell us that he will impose massive tariffs on Chinese steel. But that wouldn't solve anything. China actually created the majority of the steel demand in the last decade and a half because of its massive expansion of infrastructure. But that demand has slowed, and China has plenty of domestic steel, so where is all this new American steel going to go?
If Trump were serious, he would at least talking about creating new manufacturing jobs in new industries like green energy, where the US has an advantage in having already a large base of high-tech companies and having many of the best research universities in the world.
But Trump doesn't actually want to fix anything. He is just telling gullible people what they want to hear.
Now, Trump will probably tell us that he will impose massive tariffs on Chinese steel. But that wouldn't solve anything. China actually created the majority of the steel demand in the last decade and a half because of its massive expansion of infrastructure. But that demand has slowed, and China has plenty of domestic steel, so where is all this new American steel going to go?
If Trump were serious, he would at least talking about creating new manufacturing jobs in new industries like green energy, where the US has an advantage in having already a large base of high-tech companies and having many of the best research universities in the world.
But Trump doesn't actually want to fix anything. He is just telling gullible people what they want to hear.
18
Much of what we did produce in commodities such as steel in the US for exports have been gutted due to dumping or selling same commodities by other nations under price to gain footholds in China for other purposes or to curry favor. We also have a stronger dollar which makes our goods and services for export, expensive. Know that other nations don't play by the same rules, bribing to gain business or contracts by and US origin business is a felony, not so if from elsewhere and those unscrupulous business win export businesses. We obviously play fair but past trade deals such as Nafta from another era had different motivations or the same has changed or not effective - time to revisit our big trade deals and leverage our strengths to rewrite them to effectuate positive change in other political areas such as illegal immigration. That will get some Govts notice and stem the human tide of breeching our borders.
4
"Pittsburgh has often been viewed as the very model of a city moving beyond its heavy industrial history to find new prosperity in areas like health care, banking, and professional services."
Thats nice, but healthcare and banking don't build a nation's wealth. industry does. Why do you think China has become a power to be reckoned with in the past decade and a half? because they have massive manufacturing of all sorts. They have been undergoing an industrial revolution since the 90's. and that has been the result of nonsense like that, that says its ok to lose manufacturing and heavy industry, as long as you just replace it with something else. unfortunately, that's not how the world works, because the world must consume goods, and those goods must be manufactured. heavy industry is the backbone of a nation. it is literally a nationbuilder. Why else do you think we became a major superpower overnight in the 19th century? because we became an industrialized nation. Why did we become so wealthy during and after World War 2? because the war created tons of investment in industry, industry which after the war, turned to civilian needs, such as cars and appliances.
the problem is that for that to work, you need to be focused 99% on the home country. Ford would have to make 99% of it's product here in the USA, and THEN ship it elsewhere for sale. but that cuts into profits.
Thats nice, but healthcare and banking don't build a nation's wealth. industry does. Why do you think China has become a power to be reckoned with in the past decade and a half? because they have massive manufacturing of all sorts. They have been undergoing an industrial revolution since the 90's. and that has been the result of nonsense like that, that says its ok to lose manufacturing and heavy industry, as long as you just replace it with something else. unfortunately, that's not how the world works, because the world must consume goods, and those goods must be manufactured. heavy industry is the backbone of a nation. it is literally a nationbuilder. Why else do you think we became a major superpower overnight in the 19th century? because we became an industrialized nation. Why did we become so wealthy during and after World War 2? because the war created tons of investment in industry, industry which after the war, turned to civilian needs, such as cars and appliances.
the problem is that for that to work, you need to be focused 99% on the home country. Ford would have to make 99% of it's product here in the USA, and THEN ship it elsewhere for sale. but that cuts into profits.
6
I have no idea where you are getting those ideas. Heavy manufacturing does not one-for-one translate into wealth. The Soviet Union, and for that matter Cold War China, had plenty of heavy manufacturing capacity. The Soviet Union built more tanks than the United States ever did during the Cold War, and that country disintegrated with its people lined up around city blocks in soup lines. Mexico and Vietnam all provide a lot of manufacturing for foreign investors. By your logic, these countries should be global powers.
The key to economic prosperity is to adapt, innovate, and take advantage of opportunities. That's the real lesson. American industry lead the world by 1945 because companies innovated assembly line techniques and identified a market for low cost goods like Ford Model T's and Bendix Washing Machines. America happened to have a large immigrant population providing cheap labor in the first half of the 20th century. (Sound familiar?)
China adapted in the 90's by making itself friendly to foreign investments in its labor market. But as we can see in the last year, good times do not last forever. Labor costs have been artificially depressed, and in an age of increasing automation you can't rely on those jobs forever. China's bubble is on the verge of bursting, and its government will need to adapt again.
Trump is advocating the opposite of adapt and survive. He advocates living in the past and becoming a dinosaur.
The key to economic prosperity is to adapt, innovate, and take advantage of opportunities. That's the real lesson. American industry lead the world by 1945 because companies innovated assembly line techniques and identified a market for low cost goods like Ford Model T's and Bendix Washing Machines. America happened to have a large immigrant population providing cheap labor in the first half of the 20th century. (Sound familiar?)
China adapted in the 90's by making itself friendly to foreign investments in its labor market. But as we can see in the last year, good times do not last forever. Labor costs have been artificially depressed, and in an age of increasing automation you can't rely on those jobs forever. China's bubble is on the verge of bursting, and its government will need to adapt again.
Trump is advocating the opposite of adapt and survive. He advocates living in the past and becoming a dinosaur.
14
I couldn't agree more
1
Did you read the article? It said that we're making as much steel as we used but with many fewer workers.
The Soviet Union put a lot of effort into making lots of steel, certainly didn't import any and yet...
Heavy industry as the backbone of a nation? It certainly used to be that way, what makes you so sure it still is? Ever heard of software?
I have heard, as the article states, that Pittsburgh is doing quite well because they didn't try to keep being what they had been, a steel town, but made a transition to a more balanced, modern economy. What worked yesterday won't necessarily still work today.
The Soviet Union put a lot of effort into making lots of steel, certainly didn't import any and yet...
Heavy industry as the backbone of a nation? It certainly used to be that way, what makes you so sure it still is? Ever heard of software?
I have heard, as the article states, that Pittsburgh is doing quite well because they didn't try to keep being what they had been, a steel town, but made a transition to a more balanced, modern economy. What worked yesterday won't necessarily still work today.
2
This article touches upon an important reason for the decline in the number of manufacturing jobs which is technology. The inexorable shift in manufacturing due to technology has eliminated millions more jobs than outsourcing ever has. Even in the very high tech sector of semiconductor manufacturing in which I work, I've seen that we need far fewer factories as compared to 3 decades ago. The factories itself are very large but are extremely automated, spit out many more wafers which are larger and chips that are smaller.
Another example is Uber, which is going to eliminate millions of cab driver jobs. Ultimately, self driving cars will eliminate even those remaining jobs.
We need to prepare the populace for an age where most people simply won't have jobs. Do I see a case for common basic income?!
Another example is Uber, which is going to eliminate millions of cab driver jobs. Ultimately, self driving cars will eliminate even those remaining jobs.
We need to prepare the populace for an age where most people simply won't have jobs. Do I see a case for common basic income?!
15
How typical. Trump's policies are not only out of step with the majority of Americans (who are Democratic or Independent), but even with a large sector of his own Party. I guess he was edumacated at Trump University.
18
Trump's plan sounds a lot better than Hillary's gobbledygook about government creating more technology workers by forgiving student loans. His views are dismissed as nostalgic but Hillary's are praised on these pages as if they aren't nothing but another government program doomed to failure. She also fails to say what she would do about the foreign-worker visas which are just killing American jobs. It would seem that restricting these visas would be a more effective way of increasing technology employment for Americans than her ridiculous proposal which is little more than a band-aid. Of course, the technology companies which are now big Democrat donor would not like that.
10
So, the GI Bill was nothing but a government program doomed to failure? Good to know.
2
The author is comparing apples with oranges. It's not a matter of 5,100 steel industry jobs replaced by 61,000 health care jobs but steel jobs added to the local economy which will result in even more health care jobs, Steel jobs will also compete with health care for workers. so pay and benefits will increase in both sectors. The increase in employed workers will also mean better insurance coverage which will increase the demand for health care. The one sector that will fare more poorly is the public sector because a higher employment rate and better paying jobs mean less demand for welfare and social services. The American worker will be in demand again and have greater dignity and respect. Trump's proposals will make America great again. The wonder is that Democrats supposedly the party of the people did not take the lead but continue to concede that the good jobs are gone forever.
9
Ever worked in a steel plant? So sure it's a good job? The article said that we're producing as much steel as ever so to still have all those jobs we'd be producing way more steel than we need or can sell. How would you or Trump make that happen? The Soviet Union produced a lot of steel, employing a lot of people but that was because the government ran the economy & was as forward thinking as you & Trump.
And your description of Clinton's economic plans seems a bit incomplete.
And your description of Clinton's economic plans seems a bit incomplete.
The wages of those health care workers are also almost assuredly much lower than the union steelworker wages.
4
As usual, trump was talking from his nether regions. He derides Chinese manufacturing, even as his trumptrash products are made there. He claims treaties from the last two decades created globalization. Globalization is a trend spanning millennia.....see: the Vikings...or the Romans....or Marco Polo......as for the decline in US manufacturing, it started as a trend in the second half of the 1950s and was regarded as a great thing then. It meant Americans were doing more skilled jobs and not standing on assembly lines.
It was in the 1980s that many rustbelt factories shut down, like the steel mills, glass mills, and clothing mills in my region of PA. It was the loosening of regulation on mergers and the tax code being rigged to encourage corprations to offshore that really heated the move out of the US up. NAFTA, signed by HWBush in 1992 and ratified in 1993 did not start the trend, it recognized a decades old economic pattern and sought to make if better for citizens of our continent economically, which it did.
Even the reliably Republican Chanber of Commerce weighed in saying trumps hair brained ramblings would cost millions of American jobs and lower standards of living in the US.
trump has been unifying in that everyone who knows anything knows that he is unqualified to be president. Fitting that this speech which was just a pile of trash, was delivered by a pile of trash in front of a pile of trash. At least the old cans serve a useful purpose.
It was in the 1980s that many rustbelt factories shut down, like the steel mills, glass mills, and clothing mills in my region of PA. It was the loosening of regulation on mergers and the tax code being rigged to encourage corprations to offshore that really heated the move out of the US up. NAFTA, signed by HWBush in 1992 and ratified in 1993 did not start the trend, it recognized a decades old economic pattern and sought to make if better for citizens of our continent economically, which it did.
Even the reliably Republican Chanber of Commerce weighed in saying trumps hair brained ramblings would cost millions of American jobs and lower standards of living in the US.
trump has been unifying in that everyone who knows anything knows that he is unqualified to be president. Fitting that this speech which was just a pile of trash, was delivered by a pile of trash in front of a pile of trash. At least the old cans serve a useful purpose.
29
@John:
Correction to your post. NAFTA was signed by President Clinton on Dec. 8, 1993 and took effect on Jan. 1, 1994.
Correction to your post. NAFTA was signed by President Clinton on Dec. 8, 1993 and took effect on Jan. 1, 1994.
2
Trash talk will get you nowhere.
2
I dont think you understand what Globalization means if you are seriously making such a comparison...
1
8.5% of US jobs are in manufacturing, that's completely unacceptable and know that the term manufacturing does not always refer to giants in the auto sector for example. But that too is gone to and continuing to go to Mexico. Look at Germany which obviously protects their industry and are the absolute leaders in precision manufacturing - high value businesses producing the highest value components and custom parts which keeps their workers busy and highly paid skilled jobs in mostly smaller companies. We have given away our jobs to Asia and in certain sectors, it was cheap plastic goods and dirty industrial jobs that no longer feasible. But the rest can certainly come back here and fired up again in the mid-west rust belt and Northern States where businesses were chased by high taxes and high labor costs. New technology such as 3D Printing will enable much of the higher goods to be made here shortly and will revolutionize industry like never before. We cannot be a nation of waiters, baristas, retail clerks etc. We must devote our efforts to create or bring back higher level industries powered and supported by technology. Trump maybe oddly pointing to the wrong things but he has the right ideas.
16
In Germany, labor unions are represented on corporate boards. Here, the owners of the manufacturers squeeze labor as much as they can to where it makes more sense to use unskilled labor overseas. We will need new labor laws, not tariffs, to achieve high employment in skilled manufacturing.
How do you know Germany "protects" their industry? Certainly not against other European nations. By the way Germany has "high" taxes, oh & high labor costs. How's that work?
If he is pointing to the wrong things than they are the wrong ideas. Think about what you just said
Don't forget that workers' unions played a role in the culling of jobs and closing of steel mills, a role significant to the decline in our manufacturing base and increase in our trade deficit. Simply put, unions became too greedy for their own good, for their dues-paying members' own good. Corrupt union bosses, such as past-Teamster's leader Jimmy Hoffa, used their powerful positions to line their own pockets and intimidate and manipulate the steel industry and, yes, politicians.
5
But unlimited greed is good for CEO's,upper management and rich stockholders, right?
3
If that is the case, then why did that same trend not exist in Canada which has more manufacturing still, and still has a very strong labor union movement? That is a tired lie told by anti union forces to turn worker against worker.
Donald Trump is a carnival barker, spouting tantalizing enticements to a crowd of potential marks with absolutely no intention of fulfilling any of those promises. He's done this before, most notoriously with Trump University, so it's a polished, well-rehearsed pitch that appeals to all those willing to listen.
The key is the old adage that the people who get taken have to go willingly, and that denying what they want only makes them want it more. Trump is a master at this approach; he's practiced it all his life.
The key is the old adage that the people who get taken have to go willingly, and that denying what they want only makes them want it more. Trump is a master at this approach; he's practiced it all his life.
23
Donald Trump criticism of American trade deals addresses the main concern of millions of American worker.
Regional free trade agreements, such as NAFTA, have accelerated the rate of domestic employment losses, particularly well paid job in manufacturing.
On trade, Trump's political message resonates well among middle class families. Trade agreements have been quite profitable for transnational corporations but job killing for American workers.
Regional free trade agreements, such as NAFTA, have accelerated the rate of domestic employment losses, particularly well paid job in manufacturing.
On trade, Trump's political message resonates well among middle class families. Trade agreements have been quite profitable for transnational corporations but job killing for American workers.
14
Free trade has created many jobs. Good ones. And protectionism does not work. Never will. We enjoy a very high standard of living due to free trade. If we impose barriers so will other countries resulting in the lost of many many jobs.
The only answer is higher education, technology and continued innovation. We have to look to the future not the past. Or our
The only answer is higher education, technology and continued innovation. We have to look to the future not the past. Or our
5
Not everyone can afford higher education and not everyone wants a job in technology. Does it occur to no one that there is nothing wrong with an employed, manual labor force? Or do we consider those jobs only fit for immigrants and overseas workers? This is not nostalgia, it's reality, and why it continues to be referred to as something of the past is beyond me. We all benefit from the products of manufacturing. Why not make it here and employ the unemployed?
7
I thought folk wisdom teaches us that "if something sounds too good to be true, it probably is." Why then, do Trump voters - red-blooded Americans untainted by liberal education, so filled with folk wisdom and "common sense" - believe that Trump has a magic time machine that will turn the clock back in 1978 (or more precisely, a nostalgic, idealized 1978 that never existed.)
13
Drive across South Carolina and other southern states and, off the Interstates, you will see town after town hollowed out, the former downtown sections filled with rotting, empty buildings and abandoned dreams. All is not gloom, because new stores have risen in nearby suburban style shopping zones, but these too are pockmarked with payday lenders, pawn shops and other bottom feeding businesses.
I am always amazed at how many empty gasoline stations, restaurants and other once were businesses can be seen across New Jersey. There must be thousands. One sees very little of that sort of thing across Maryland except in Baltimore, both rebuilding and still dying at the same time, a place where jobs went away but people stayed.
Those who are not doing well, who don't make north of 100K per yr. (or even half that in lower wage areas, like the rural and semi-rural south) see dislocation all around them. They don't have to have lost their jobs to be concerned, even frightened.
Trump has no ability to wave his magic hat and remake America. He is plying the same trade that propelled him for decades: puffing himself and his potential far beyond reality, knowing that some people will believe almost anything. This is what he did with his failed casino "empire" and most of his other early business ventures. He borrowed way too much money, promised returns that were far too high to be realized and then cut and ran. If you want an egomaniacal bully ungrounded by reality, he's your man.
I am always amazed at how many empty gasoline stations, restaurants and other once were businesses can be seen across New Jersey. There must be thousands. One sees very little of that sort of thing across Maryland except in Baltimore, both rebuilding and still dying at the same time, a place where jobs went away but people stayed.
Those who are not doing well, who don't make north of 100K per yr. (or even half that in lower wage areas, like the rural and semi-rural south) see dislocation all around them. They don't have to have lost their jobs to be concerned, even frightened.
Trump has no ability to wave his magic hat and remake America. He is plying the same trade that propelled him for decades: puffing himself and his potential far beyond reality, knowing that some people will believe almost anything. This is what he did with his failed casino "empire" and most of his other early business ventures. He borrowed way too much money, promised returns that were far too high to be realized and then cut and ran. If you want an egomaniacal bully ungrounded by reality, he's your man.
34
I personally fail to understand why anyone believes that Donald Trump has a clue regarding the economy or any other topic he addresses. Everyone is different but I for one long ago concluded that Donald Trump is a joke, a hedonist who's enjoying the attention he's getting by attracting followers pretending to care about their needs and pretending to know what he's talking about while throwing his weight around, spewing hot air and hate, and providing simple solutions to complex situations he doesn't understand and doesn't even try to. Donald Trump isn't running for president; he's participating in a hobby, a game defined by winning, just for the sake of winning, of once more trying to prove himself to himself, nothing more. Thus it's confusing that he's given enough credit by some who go so far as debate the nonsensical stuff that one minute comes out one side of his mouth then a few minutes later something else from the other side. Ekkkkk.
78
because he's the only one in the race for president, that actually says the right things. Hillary is clearly just another globalist pawn of the elite, paid for by wall street, corporations and even the saudi royal family. Trump, while he may be rich, is still mind you, a private businessman. His company is entirely self owned. not publicly traded. So he isnt saying whats "best for his stock holders" he's saying whatever he genuinely believes is right, and even if that turns out to be a disaster, i'd rather have a well meaning buffoon than another status quo elite owned president. We haven't had a real president in 30 or so years. Arguably more.
3
He isn't saying what's best for stock holders. He's saying what's best for him.
As technology began rapidly entering the workplace in the 1950s, instead of decreasing worker-hours and maintaining the workforce at the same level with the same level of compensation, employers used the savings from technology to keep worker-hours and salaries the same, but reduced the size of the workforce. Greater productivity was translated into greater profits for the owners. The benefits did not trickle down.
With the decline of unions and the failure of the government to shorten the work-week as they had done in the early part of the 20th century, the work-week stayed about the same, with fewer employees required. At the beginning of the 21st century, worker compensation had remained relatively stable for the past 50 years while the compensation of owners has increased twenty-fold.
The answer is not to encourage Americans to 'Buy American', but to demand that employees benefit from technology as do employers: Fewer hours for employees with a commensurate increase in compensation so that the level of employment remains the same having more workers working fewer hours and all Americans benefiting from the fruits of technology, not just the employers.
Legislation reducing the work-week from 40 hours to 30, then 20 will dramatically increase employment while giving more leisure time to Americans and restoring the owner/worker incomes to a more traditional ratio of 10 or 20:1 rather than the current 200:1.
With the decline of unions and the failure of the government to shorten the work-week as they had done in the early part of the 20th century, the work-week stayed about the same, with fewer employees required. At the beginning of the 21st century, worker compensation had remained relatively stable for the past 50 years while the compensation of owners has increased twenty-fold.
The answer is not to encourage Americans to 'Buy American', but to demand that employees benefit from technology as do employers: Fewer hours for employees with a commensurate increase in compensation so that the level of employment remains the same having more workers working fewer hours and all Americans benefiting from the fruits of technology, not just the employers.
Legislation reducing the work-week from 40 hours to 30, then 20 will dramatically increase employment while giving more leisure time to Americans and restoring the owner/worker incomes to a more traditional ratio of 10 or 20:1 rather than the current 200:1.
19
You make some good points, but somewhat miss the mark. This is not the first time technology has drastically affected the American work force. In 1900, 38% of the work force were farmers; by 1990 it was less than 3%. No labor laws, no regulations about hours or wages could possible deal with a shift of that kind of magnitude. To be sure, labor has lost its leverage, do to technology and globalization, but the laws of supply and demand work everywhere and all the time whether you want them to or not. You will never find a solution by trying to order the laws of supply and demand to change. What needs to be done instead is to create more jobs that cannot be shipped over seas and thereby restore the balance. The best way to do this is to rebuild our crumbling infrastructure, improve our public education, and invest in basic research. Of course this will require raising taxes on those who have benefitted most from globalization, but a better infrastructure improves the quality of life for everyone.
13
Trump is criticizing Republican policies (not Democratic). If you look at the labor department's statistics cited by Trump, all of the manufacturing jobs were lost during Bush's presidency (2000 thru 2009). Manufacturing jobs remained relatively stable during Clinton's administration and manufacturing jobs have steadily increased during Obamas Presidency. Bill Clinton argues that we lost manufacturing jobs between 2000 and 2009 due to the Bush administration's failure to enforce pro US NAFTA provisions.
On the other hand I strongly believe that trade agreements that do not ensure that our trading partners have mandatory minimum labor laws and environmental protections are inherently unfair to American workers. I also believe that it was a massive mistake to give China most favored trading status without obtaining any US worker protections in exchange.
The problem with Trump is that he is overtly lying to us (as so many have done before) when he discusses (exploits) this serious complex problem because he fails to tell us that it was Bush's trade policies that damaged American manufacturing jobs (not Clinton or Obama's).
On the other hand I strongly believe that trade agreements that do not ensure that our trading partners have mandatory minimum labor laws and environmental protections are inherently unfair to American workers. I also believe that it was a massive mistake to give China most favored trading status without obtaining any US worker protections in exchange.
The problem with Trump is that he is overtly lying to us (as so many have done before) when he discusses (exploits) this serious complex problem because he fails to tell us that it was Bush's trade policies that damaged American manufacturing jobs (not Clinton or Obama's).
13
It was Clinton though. Bush was completely unconcerned with trade since he was too busy fighting his war. But Bill Clinton was the one who signed our trade agreements and globalized us. And there were very few if any actual pro-US provisions. the whole thing with china was done in an effort to make them more like us by trading with them. but it was all predicated on word of mouth. a good will promise that they would improve conditions. but they never did and never will. Whenever they are confronted over their massive contributions to climate change, they cry "developing nation!" and nobody can do anything about it.
Clinton also repealed glass-steagal, which led to the risky business that caused the 2008 collapse.
It is entirely arguable that the current state of the US economy is the direct fault of Clinton.
Clinton also repealed glass-steagal, which led to the risky business that caused the 2008 collapse.
It is entirely arguable that the current state of the US economy is the direct fault of Clinton.
4
Mr. Trump tells people he will “make America wealthy again”. America is already very wealthy, but the wealth is concentrated at the top. Entering into trade wars and blaming immigrants will do nothing to address that fact. What would help is ending forty years of tickle down supply side economics, rolling back massive tax cuts for the wealthy, reversing the legal assault on labor unions, and investing in our roads, schools, and productive infrastructure. Until enough voters understand this to reject not only Trump but the entire Republican agenda, a large segment of Americans will remain left out and disadvantaged, no matter how angry they get.
62
Since we're forced into a 2-party system, Trump smartly chose to run as a Republican and he beat them all.
This is because the outdated notion of "party first" no longer resonates with anyone.
Nobody under 60 cares what the Republican Party or Ronald Reagan thinks/would have thought.
Nobody cares if Trump does not act like a Reagan Republican.
Voters today want their issues addressed.
This is because the outdated notion of "party first" no longer resonates with anyone.
Nobody under 60 cares what the Republican Party or Ronald Reagan thinks/would have thought.
Nobody cares if Trump does not act like a Reagan Republican.
Voters today want their issues addressed.
13
Addressing an issue requires more than a politician claiming they're going to make something "great again". It requires an understanding of the issue, a real world solution and the ability (if new laws are required) to negotiate with Congress to get the law passed.
Trump no ability to perform any of that.
It's very easy to talk tough. A President Trump wouldn't have the power to impose import taxes, except on a few items, but if he did, all it would do is raise the price of those items and the Chinese would retaliate by taxing American products. This wouldn't gain American jobs, it would lose them.
Even if manufacturing returned to the U.S., it wouldn't create that many jobs as the factories would be highly automated. Even Foxconn in China, which makes electronic products for Apple and many other electronics companies, has said they're going to automate the factories and they're soon expected to lay off 40,000 workers.
If you want to put working class people back to work, we need to start a massive WPA-level infrastructure project in this country and we need to raise the minimum wage. Rebuild roads, airports, water systems, sewer systems, modern power systems and install fibre optic cable almost everywhere. That can put several million people to work with decent paying jobs and create a future for this country. But Trump has never spoken about doing anything like that and even if he did, Republicans in Congress would never let it happen.
Trump no ability to perform any of that.
It's very easy to talk tough. A President Trump wouldn't have the power to impose import taxes, except on a few items, but if he did, all it would do is raise the price of those items and the Chinese would retaliate by taxing American products. This wouldn't gain American jobs, it would lose them.
Even if manufacturing returned to the U.S., it wouldn't create that many jobs as the factories would be highly automated. Even Foxconn in China, which makes electronic products for Apple and many other electronics companies, has said they're going to automate the factories and they're soon expected to lay off 40,000 workers.
If you want to put working class people back to work, we need to start a massive WPA-level infrastructure project in this country and we need to raise the minimum wage. Rebuild roads, airports, water systems, sewer systems, modern power systems and install fibre optic cable almost everywhere. That can put several million people to work with decent paying jobs and create a future for this country. But Trump has never spoken about doing anything like that and even if he did, Republicans in Congress would never let it happen.
7
The author is correct in alleging that there are more health care workers in Pittsburgh-- and probably throughout this country -- than before. However, this is a bad thing. My idea may seem uncommon; please bear with me.
An increase in medical care is often not correlated with an increase in health. A study showed that seniors in the Miami region were twice as likely to see doctors than seniors in Minneapolis. However, the Minnesotans lived longer.
American medicine is rife with malpractice: 100,000 Americans die every year of infections contracted in hospitals. Not too long ago, the Times quoted a doctor at the Mayo clinic as saying that because CT scans emit hundreds of times as much radiation as chest x rays, we are seeing 25,000 extra cancer deaths per year. People who are very sick usually get sicker because of the way medicine is practiced: A sick patient may often have several doctors for several different conditions and they normally don't consult with one another and don't share their findings. Medical care is routinely fragmented and disorganized. The number of people on Social security disability is rising faster than the population. Why? Perhaps because A) more people are suffering from the results of malpractice or B) we are medicalizing more and more stuff. The APA now has diagnostic categories such as "writing disorder" for one who has trouble writing.
At least when people manufactured stuff they made things that often enriched our lives.
An increase in medical care is often not correlated with an increase in health. A study showed that seniors in the Miami region were twice as likely to see doctors than seniors in Minneapolis. However, the Minnesotans lived longer.
American medicine is rife with malpractice: 100,000 Americans die every year of infections contracted in hospitals. Not too long ago, the Times quoted a doctor at the Mayo clinic as saying that because CT scans emit hundreds of times as much radiation as chest x rays, we are seeing 25,000 extra cancer deaths per year. People who are very sick usually get sicker because of the way medicine is practiced: A sick patient may often have several doctors for several different conditions and they normally don't consult with one another and don't share their findings. Medical care is routinely fragmented and disorganized. The number of people on Social security disability is rising faster than the population. Why? Perhaps because A) more people are suffering from the results of malpractice or B) we are medicalizing more and more stuff. The APA now has diagnostic categories such as "writing disorder" for one who has trouble writing.
At least when people manufactured stuff they made things that often enriched our lives.
12
Also, re: these Pittsburgh jobs, as described in this paragraph. "The 5,100 steel production jobs lost in Pittsburgh are dwarfed by the 66,000 health care jobs gained in the same span. Pittsburgh [is a] city moving beyond its heavy industrial history to find new prosperity in areas like health care, banking and professional services."
Making or manufacturing or producing NOTHING. At some point someone has to be making something in this country. We can't have a nation built on service and health care jobs, and professional services wherein relatively elite well-educating professionals extract whatever money there is to be had in any region.
That's America and that's the problem. And if it's happened in the rust belt, and it has, I used to work in one of those steel mills, then our manufacturing capability no longer exists and has been outsourced.
Of course, we know this. And Donald Trump is running to the left of Hillary Clinton on trade with warnings in today's paper by Bernie Sanders, no less, that the economic populism that carried the day in Great Britain CAN happen here. Trump is every scary thing that can and has been said about him personified. But if he's the ONLY one threatening to rip up trade deals and promising to stop outsourcing and bring back manufacturing, he becomes a viable candidate and the only lifeline to what is now a nation of destroyed towns and counties and industries.
"Hillizabeth" is the Dem's only hope. Bring on Warren and move to the left.
Making or manufacturing or producing NOTHING. At some point someone has to be making something in this country. We can't have a nation built on service and health care jobs, and professional services wherein relatively elite well-educating professionals extract whatever money there is to be had in any region.
That's America and that's the problem. And if it's happened in the rust belt, and it has, I used to work in one of those steel mills, then our manufacturing capability no longer exists and has been outsourced.
Of course, we know this. And Donald Trump is running to the left of Hillary Clinton on trade with warnings in today's paper by Bernie Sanders, no less, that the economic populism that carried the day in Great Britain CAN happen here. Trump is every scary thing that can and has been said about him personified. But if he's the ONLY one threatening to rip up trade deals and promising to stop outsourcing and bring back manufacturing, he becomes a viable candidate and the only lifeline to what is now a nation of destroyed towns and counties and industries.
"Hillizabeth" is the Dem's only hope. Bring on Warren and move to the left.
6
It's almost delicious to hear the Republican nominee preach against Free Trade.
Take the worst aspects of the Tea Party (racism, misogyny, anti-reproductive rights, ignorance of Global Warming) and then throw away the one decent Republican tool for economic growth (while retaining anti-growth tax policies). That's great, Mr. Trump.
Take the worst aspects of the Tea Party (racism, misogyny, anti-reproductive rights, ignorance of Global Warming) and then throw away the one decent Republican tool for economic growth (while retaining anti-growth tax policies). That's great, Mr. Trump.
27
We are running out of resources. At the same time, our national and global population is exploding. Put those together (along with automation) and it is clear that products and wages are an outdated, unsustainable system for humanity.
These arguments -- about jobs being lost across borders or to immigrants -- they're distractions from the real conversation we need to be having, about justice, standard of living, values, and the future.
These arguments -- about jobs being lost across borders or to immigrants -- they're distractions from the real conversation we need to be having, about justice, standard of living, values, and the future.
19
I agree with you, however, no politician seems willing to touch on the basic facts that our world is over-populated, over-burdened and the balance between those barely making it and the 1% making it off the backs of the rest. It's just not a popular subject, and probably will be the death of us. Why? Good question.
4
I grew up in southwestern Pennsylvania in the '60s and '70s. I worshipped the Pirate's Manny Sanguillen. I heard Franco Harris change the world on my mother's little tabletop radio, on a snowy day in December.
In the 1970s my father lost his steel mill job. So did my uncle. My other uncle worked construction, and he too suffered from the downturn and dislocation.
My father and our family moved twice looking for work -- first 50 miles away from the family I grew up beside, literally, and then 2000 lonely and disconnected miles away from everything that we ever knew.
In the 1970s my father lost his steel mill job. So did my uncle. My other uncle worked construction, and he too suffered from the downturn and dislocation.
My father and our family moved twice looking for work -- first 50 miles away from the family I grew up beside, literally, and then 2000 lonely and disconnected miles away from everything that we ever knew.
18
Mr. Appell, thank you for writing this. I wish I could read more of it.
1
David:
I'm also from Western PA, about 10 years after you.
Manny Sanguillen was my hero as well! By the way, I know several people who have worked with Franco in recent years, and everyone says he is class act!
Unfortunately, it appears that we also both share memories of steel's decline and suffering that it caused. While Pittsburgh itself has bounced back and is now an incredible place to live, many Western PA towns did not.
I've read Trump's speech. Most of the NYT commenters just don't get it, which I understand. But the speech will resonate strongly among the people who suffered the downturn. For these people, there is nothing to lose by voting for Trump.
I'm also from Western PA, about 10 years after you.
Manny Sanguillen was my hero as well! By the way, I know several people who have worked with Franco in recent years, and everyone says he is class act!
Unfortunately, it appears that we also both share memories of steel's decline and suffering that it caused. While Pittsburgh itself has bounced back and is now an incredible place to live, many Western PA towns did not.
I've read Trump's speech. Most of the NYT commenters just don't get it, which I understand. But the speech will resonate strongly among the people who suffered the downturn. For these people, there is nothing to lose by voting for Trump.
2
It is critical that the reality, the truth defining the conditions of manufacturing be clearly presented to the parts of American population who are easily confused by Trump's ignorant remarks. The same group of Englishmen were confused by the Leave leaders who after the Brexit vote quickly abandoned the mistake-filled promises they had made.
Too late to save the UK from the crisis the people now face. Our press must demand facts and truth and correct analyses of the challenges our disgruntled citizens experience. Let's not leave them to Trump's ignorance.
Too late to save the UK from the crisis the people now face. Our press must demand facts and truth and correct analyses of the challenges our disgruntled citizens experience. Let's not leave them to Trump's ignorance.
14
Whether or not one is for Trump, I'm not for the TTP and the TTIP as they are allegedly and currently drafted, since both have too many negative ramifications as they stand. Notwithstanding other negative effects, I'm against the ISDS, Investor State Dispute Settlement.
It was reported that one of the principal reasons Brexit passed, was because the Brits stated that they had lost their rights and all of their decisions and actions were determined by the EU in Belgium, and not them. The same is already happening here.
A few months ago, under NAFTA, Congress settled a claim against the US by Canada for which we would have paid millions for the US making Canada and Mexico state the country of origin on meat packages offered for sale in the US.
Coincidently it has also reported that China is going to process much of our US poultry and pork. I would like to know that, because I question some of China's health standards.
Also, it was reported that Trans-Canada just filed for arbitration under NAFTA against the US for damages, for not approving the Keystone pipeline.
And by the way there have already been oil spills, and Trans-Canada is not liable for them, since they were not a US company. Furthermore, for that reason they don't have to contribute the the Spill Fund.
This is just one areas from which our further rights will be lost. I'm for foreign trade, which is fair, reciprocal, without the loss of our individual and collective rights which we currently enjoy.
It was reported that one of the principal reasons Brexit passed, was because the Brits stated that they had lost their rights and all of their decisions and actions were determined by the EU in Belgium, and not them. The same is already happening here.
A few months ago, under NAFTA, Congress settled a claim against the US by Canada for which we would have paid millions for the US making Canada and Mexico state the country of origin on meat packages offered for sale in the US.
Coincidently it has also reported that China is going to process much of our US poultry and pork. I would like to know that, because I question some of China's health standards.
Also, it was reported that Trans-Canada just filed for arbitration under NAFTA against the US for damages, for not approving the Keystone pipeline.
And by the way there have already been oil spills, and Trans-Canada is not liable for them, since they were not a US company. Furthermore, for that reason they don't have to contribute the the Spill Fund.
This is just one areas from which our further rights will be lost. I'm for foreign trade, which is fair, reciprocal, without the loss of our individual and collective rights which we currently enjoy.
19
Unfortunately the Hillary Clinton corporate democrats, led by Debbie Wasserman Schultz recently voted down language changes in the DNC platform that would have renounced TPP and promotion of fracking and supported a $15 minimum wage and single payer health plans.
I wonder if HRC is a democrat at all.
I wonder if HRC is a democrat at all.
2
I am glad you are taking some time to inform yourself on trade, especially in fresh meat and poultry. Unfortunately you have some bad information. First - I would recommend you do some more reading on the meat labeling. Just Google MCOOL. What it did was require US plants that process livestock to segregate animals raised in the US from those raised in Canada / Mexico. This increased costs to process and lowered the value of Canadian / Mexican livestock - a clear violation. All meat sold in the US still has to be processed in a USDA inspected facility. It also doesn't prevent anyone who wants to sell 100% USA raised beef, pork or chicken from stating that on packages.
Also we are not and will not be importing large quantities of Chinese meat. If you are concerned about where your meat is coming from every package of fresh and processed meat includes a USDA plant number where it was produced. The USDA has apps that will allow you to look up that establishment number on your phone and you can confirm who made it and where (and it won't be China)
Also we are not and will not be importing large quantities of Chinese meat. If you are concerned about where your meat is coming from every package of fresh and processed meat includes a USDA plant number where it was produced. The USDA has apps that will allow you to look up that establishment number on your phone and you can confirm who made it and where (and it won't be China)
We don't make or use mechanical typewriters and printers and banking machines and our bumpers are now plastic and not steel. There have been revolutions in products and materials. Plastic injection molding supplanted die cast metal and digital platemaking has replaced hot lead. The Linotype machine is gone. The library reference indexes are no longer paper cards in filing cabinets.
No clerk writes out an invoice in an auto parts store or at Macy's.
The REA is gone -- the Railway Express Agency. Longshoremen no longer unload ships using great nets and cranes. The great network of street-level rails, box cars and factory-door sidings are gone from every rust belt city.
Replacement parts on you car come as assemblies. We don't adjust the valves or replace the ignition points or brake shoes on our cars. We don't have carburetors on our engines except if it's a lawn mower or trimmer.
The factories that made all of this old stuff are gone. In their place are new devices that blend whole new mixes of technologies. Most of them are made using electronics and precision manufacturing processes. The old factories became obsolete along with their R&D and engineering personnel. New kinds of value-add moved in. Value-add became distributed -- the parts come from everywhere and are not made just in one plant as with old typewriters.
It has been a hundred years of invention and obsolescence.
Your Donald Trump is just clueless when it comes to understanding these changes.
No clerk writes out an invoice in an auto parts store or at Macy's.
The REA is gone -- the Railway Express Agency. Longshoremen no longer unload ships using great nets and cranes. The great network of street-level rails, box cars and factory-door sidings are gone from every rust belt city.
Replacement parts on you car come as assemblies. We don't adjust the valves or replace the ignition points or brake shoes on our cars. We don't have carburetors on our engines except if it's a lawn mower or trimmer.
The factories that made all of this old stuff are gone. In their place are new devices that blend whole new mixes of technologies. Most of them are made using electronics and precision manufacturing processes. The old factories became obsolete along with their R&D and engineering personnel. New kinds of value-add moved in. Value-add became distributed -- the parts come from everywhere and are not made just in one plant as with old typewriters.
It has been a hundred years of invention and obsolescence.
Your Donald Trump is just clueless when it comes to understanding these changes.
85
I agree. I'm a retired autoworker. My company didn't keep up on technology and is just now, thanks to a quick bankruptcy and government help, throwing everything it has at high-tech manufacturing and is producing hundreds of new ideas. I was lucky in that I could retire at the time of the change; an older person like me could have never kept up with the change and I'm a college grad from eons ago.
With a lot of help, my company survived and is a leader in technology. Tomorrow's workers won't be able to graduate from high school and mindlessly put screws in a fixture all day... manufacturing is going to require training and lots of it and to that I say "good."
You either adapt, or you fail. Trump is encouraging failure. Anybody who thinks that I don't sympathize with a lot of Trump supporters who have been left behind because of trade deals and globalization doesn't know me, because I do. I've been there, up close. I've been laid off for over a year one time. My hometown that made components for the auto industry and employed thousands was sacked like a quarterback under an all-out blitz. Those jobs went to Mexico and other places around the world. And no matter what, like the old Springsteen song, "they ain't coming back to my hometown."
But Trump can't change the world, and he won't change the world.
With a lot of help, my company survived and is a leader in technology. Tomorrow's workers won't be able to graduate from high school and mindlessly put screws in a fixture all day... manufacturing is going to require training and lots of it and to that I say "good."
You either adapt, or you fail. Trump is encouraging failure. Anybody who thinks that I don't sympathize with a lot of Trump supporters who have been left behind because of trade deals and globalization doesn't know me, because I do. I've been there, up close. I've been laid off for over a year one time. My hometown that made components for the auto industry and employed thousands was sacked like a quarterback under an all-out blitz. Those jobs went to Mexico and other places around the world. And no matter what, like the old Springsteen song, "they ain't coming back to my hometown."
But Trump can't change the world, and he won't change the world.
Trump's talk was pure fraud from beginning to end. He cannot do what he says he will do, and if he could, his actions would have the opposite effect from what he claims. His actions would destroy jobs, lower wages, bankrupt the nation along with the rest of the world economy. Trump has the odd idea that the United States can exist in splendid economic isolation from the rest of the world, and still prosper. It is folly, and the idiotic supporters who believe this pipe-dream are the biggest fools of all.
90
I agree with the Upshot's reasoning here, but the number of cited lostPittsburgh steel jobs since NAFTA -- 5100 -- (not to mention the relative buying power of those manufacturing salaries vs most healthcare salaries), is being understated here by looking only at, I suspect, jobs within the Pittsburgh city boundaries. 25 miles down river from Pittsburgh, Jones and Laughlin Steel's Aliquippa works, where my grandfather and father spent their careers and I worked in 1973 and 1974 during college summers, had 27,000 employees at its height and still 15,000 when I worked there, just before it all went south in the pre-NAFTA mid-1970s -- ditto for American Bridge across the river and many, many other mills for 40 miles up and down the rivers -- likewise from Gary IN to Poughkeepsie, of course. steel was, as the Upshot implies, one of the first industries disrupted by globalization (imported European, Japanese and Korean steel) and the nimbleness and movability of small mills. Technological advances gave rise to the birth -- and death -- of big steel; "manufacturing" today means something profoundly different from what Trump supporters in small, still-depressed places like Oil City and Monessen and Aliquippa and Detroit hope it means.
12
And yet people in my age group (35 and under) delight in buying from cottage-industries, prefer to eat in restaurants that buy produce and meats locally, and are opening artisan/craft businesses at an unprecedented rate. I appreciate many of the advances in technology and love not having my only job choice be between sewing garments or printing newspapers but there is a large population that isn't as mesmerized by shiny, new tech toys which become obsolete within 3 years of being exported from China. Again, no fan of Trump, but I don't understand the lack of support for traditional jobs. There is STILL a place in this country for non-tech/non-healthcare/non-business admin workers. I don't think Trump truly cares about them, but they do vote, and their voice shouldn't be minimized or labeled as 'ignorant' by the rest of us.
2
You could say the same about farming. Agricultural workforce has declined from something like a third of the population at the beginning of the last century to less than 1% today. You can take a stand about who you would like to blame for that, but those jobs are not coming back. They've been automated. No trade deal caused it. The point is, it's not about how the occupations of average working people transition in the face of productivity; it's about who profits from it. And it's about the dignity of those who work for a living. The government, "by the people, for the people," should be protecting the people. That is, the social contract. Lord knows, Industry has no incentive to do so.
31
The decline of the agricultural workforce and gutting of the family-farming culture is something we should all care about. Part of this can be explained by urban flight from small towns, but much of it has to do with government favoring corporate farming. Companies like Tyson, Con-Agra and Monsanto continue to more harm to the American agriculture system than should be legal. Farming families are barely making it. A commenter above discussed the probability of most of our meat coming from Asia. We should be concerned, not just because we do need American farmers but because of the lack of regulation in food products imported here. No, Trump won't fix this, but I can see why he appeals to an older, middle America.
2
Darn that Cyrus McCormick.
The Donald wants to put Americans back to work- at sub-minimal salaries- filling jobs that no longer exist. Fine way to fix the economy, let alone make America great again. At the same time, I'm sure he'll still be hiring undocumented aliens at Mar-a-Lago and outsourcing his own brand of apparel to factories in Mexico and China. Let's face it: this man is proof positive that the alternatives to government-as-usual may actually be even worse than what we've got.
69
H1B visas put foreign workers to work, replacing American workers for sub minimal salaries. I don't see the difference.
4
Sen. Sanders also called, in his website, for bringing back the family farm.
Productivity in both farming and manufacturing depends on inputs and technology that are supplied from sources that are off-farm or outside the manufacturing enterprise. Most of the work in a "manufacturing" enterprise is actually services that if supplied by a specialized service enterprise would be counted as part of the services sector, not manufacturing, even though the final product may be manufactured.
To cut to the chase: be very, very careful what you wish for when someone promises to take you back to the family farm and manual-labor manufacturing.
The real issue is that our form of capitalism treats people as labor, so that greater productivity translates into greater marginalization. We need to start treating people as integral parts of the firms who share in its productivity gains rather than being discarded by them.
Productivity in both farming and manufacturing depends on inputs and technology that are supplied from sources that are off-farm or outside the manufacturing enterprise. Most of the work in a "manufacturing" enterprise is actually services that if supplied by a specialized service enterprise would be counted as part of the services sector, not manufacturing, even though the final product may be manufactured.
To cut to the chase: be very, very careful what you wish for when someone promises to take you back to the family farm and manual-labor manufacturing.
The real issue is that our form of capitalism treats people as labor, so that greater productivity translates into greater marginalization. We need to start treating people as integral parts of the firms who share in its productivity gains rather than being discarded by them.
39
So far, industrialization of farms has resulted in a generally lower quality of outpuy, if far greater volume.
It takes care to grow something that is as good for our bodies as it looks, and to preserve the soil that is effect the manufacturing "facility".
The small family farmer has more at stake in this than does the giant out-of-town industrial farming enterprise.
It takes care to grow something that is as good for our bodies as it looks, and to preserve the soil that is effect the manufacturing "facility".
The small family farmer has more at stake in this than does the giant out-of-town industrial farming enterprise.
7
As an owner of a small family farm, I am wondering what you are talking about. If you are referring to a necessary interdependence between labor and technology, I am all for it. The relationship has been in place for decades and works well for the most part. What doesn't work well is industrial-farming enterprises owned by massive corporations who not only treat their animals poorly, but their workers, too. I don't think any of us in agriculture are asking for more of that when we suggest that traditional jobs in manual-labor and manufacturing be supported in the US.
"The 5,100 steel production jobs lost in Pittsburgh are dwarfed by the 66,000 health care jobs gained in the same span."
I would love to see a chart showing the wage growth for those 66,000. My bet is that is is almost non-existent in constant dollar terms. Yet the salaries of upper echelon executives of those health care companies has grown exponentially in the same period.
There's the rub.
I would love to see a chart showing the wage growth for those 66,000. My bet is that is is almost non-existent in constant dollar terms. Yet the salaries of upper echelon executives of those health care companies has grown exponentially in the same period.
There's the rub.
26
You are correct. Globalization has seen the disappearance of good paying, liveable wage jobs for the middle class and replaced it with low skilled, low wage jobs.
Looking at Jobs created vs jobs lost is a con game.
Looking at Jobs created vs jobs lost is a con game.
2
Trumps speech was very good and right on. Unfortunately, the media is not doing a good job of relating it so maybe some will want to read the full, footnoted version:
https://assets.donaldjtrump.com/DJT_DeclaringAmericanEconomicIndependenc...
Millions of manufacturing jobs have been lost to trade deals with low wage countries - that has nothing to do with technological progress. In fact, these trade deals have been part of what de-linked worker productivity, which keeps going up dramatically, from worker wages, which have been completely flat.
The health care and education jobs do not replace manufacturing jobs. Manufacturing creates wealth, services such as health care are a way of consuming some of that wealth. For this reason poor countries trying to develop build up their manufacturing sector, not health care. It should also be noted, jobs in manufacturing on average pay significantly more than jobs in the service sector.
All of this has been amply researched and documented - all Trump had to do was take it from the Economic Policy Institute. Sadly, politicians like Clinton are so in the pocket of big business and the finance industry that they leave it to someone like Trump to actually advocate the solutions that it is very clear we need. It doesn't get much more ironic than that.
https://assets.donaldjtrump.com/DJT_DeclaringAmericanEconomicIndependenc...
Millions of manufacturing jobs have been lost to trade deals with low wage countries - that has nothing to do with technological progress. In fact, these trade deals have been part of what de-linked worker productivity, which keeps going up dramatically, from worker wages, which have been completely flat.
The health care and education jobs do not replace manufacturing jobs. Manufacturing creates wealth, services such as health care are a way of consuming some of that wealth. For this reason poor countries trying to develop build up their manufacturing sector, not health care. It should also be noted, jobs in manufacturing on average pay significantly more than jobs in the service sector.
All of this has been amply researched and documented - all Trump had to do was take it from the Economic Policy Institute. Sadly, politicians like Clinton are so in the pocket of big business and the finance industry that they leave it to someone like Trump to actually advocate the solutions that it is very clear we need. It doesn't get much more ironic than that.
12
The solution is tariffs? Elaborate
1
And yet you ignore a simple reality. Those jobs were sent overseas by companies seeking to reduce costs. As such, those jobs are not coming back without an increase in prices.
no
Not sure the article tells the whole story about the history of the steel industry, which also included public policy decisions to allow massive integration and monopolization, to prevent unionization, and not to socialize it during the crisis that resulted in Britain going the other way on that decision. In any event, with modern processes and productivity, it does not seem in any event that any resurgence of steel manufacturing here would provide a "massive amount" of jobs. This is yet another of Trump's fantasies that naive low-information voters are prone to believe, when his tax proposal like other Republican policies is just a favor to the ultra-rich. Republican appropriations drive the military-industrial complex, and from Trump's statements he sees no need to cut back on military spending. So, even if Trump were to be elected, it seems likely the US would continue to focus on its top category of exported goods - deadly weapons.
9
All you have to do to fulfill Donald's promises is accept the Truth as revealed by Bernie's reality - that Americans will never work for the pennies on the dollar which are now the wages in Asia with which they compete.
In other words, currency and wage and trade parity are still the fundamental necessities in Donald's mind - which only says he was serious about demanding currency/wage/trade with Asia and that the only alternative is tariffs, to which Asia will respond in some manner, to which Trump also has a prepared counterpunch.
In other words, currency and wage and trade parity are still the fundamental necessities in Donald's mind - which only says he was serious about demanding currency/wage/trade with Asia and that the only alternative is tariffs, to which Asia will respond in some manner, to which Trump also has a prepared counterpunch.
4
Globalization has led to the free movement of capital at the expense of labor. Unless this is rectified by the re-negotiation of trade deals. the middle class in an endangered species.
The neoliberal Clinton and Obama care little for the middle class and more about the emerging Global elite class and their membership in that group.
The neoliberal Clinton and Obama care little for the middle class and more about the emerging Global elite class and their membership in that group.
6
If people like Trump paid their fair share of taxes, we could afford to put Americans to work repairing highways and dams, upgrading city water and sewer systems, restoring our National Parks, sending more firefighters to the massive wildfires out West, and so many other things to upgrade the infrastructure.
But if people like Trump continue to hide their wealth in small island states, or find ways to pay no or little taxes, the infrastructure will continue to crumble and workers will remain unemployed.
But if people like Trump continue to hide their wealth in small island states, or find ways to pay no or little taxes, the infrastructure will continue to crumble and workers will remain unemployed.
167
Mr Trump, standing in front of the Acme Buggy Whip factory, promised to bring back horse drawn transportation.
"Think of all of those jobs shoveling manure" Trump roared. "I have a lot of experience with manure, especially selling it!" he enthused.
Trump demonstrates his ignorance about the US and global economy every day and reveals why his policies are a bundle of contradictions.
He talks about building a wall on the Mexico border. But NAFTA is the reason that illegal immigration from Mexico has reached net zero (see The Economist magazine) Without NAFTA, Mexico would be a failed state on our southern border (think Syria). According to Princeton economists who studied its effects, NAFTA allowed US automakers to reverse the market share tide favoring Asian companies since the 1970s. US companies export products assembled in Mexico all over the Americas, which adds to US professional, technical and supplier jobs.
Carrier Corp, which makes and sells half of its total revenue outside the US, employs hundreds of thousands in the US in its own ranks for the global business but also in over 12,000 independently owned distributors in the US who employ more hundreds of thousands selling and servicing their products.
US workers have been winning in the global economy. US consumers have benefited greatly from lower prices. Putting all of this in reverse for the phony promise of bringing steel jobs back to Pittsburgh would be a catsstrophe.
"Think of all of those jobs shoveling manure" Trump roared. "I have a lot of experience with manure, especially selling it!" he enthused.
Trump demonstrates his ignorance about the US and global economy every day and reveals why his policies are a bundle of contradictions.
He talks about building a wall on the Mexico border. But NAFTA is the reason that illegal immigration from Mexico has reached net zero (see The Economist magazine) Without NAFTA, Mexico would be a failed state on our southern border (think Syria). According to Princeton economists who studied its effects, NAFTA allowed US automakers to reverse the market share tide favoring Asian companies since the 1970s. US companies export products assembled in Mexico all over the Americas, which adds to US professional, technical and supplier jobs.
Carrier Corp, which makes and sells half of its total revenue outside the US, employs hundreds of thousands in the US in its own ranks for the global business but also in over 12,000 independently owned distributors in the US who employ more hundreds of thousands selling and servicing their products.
US workers have been winning in the global economy. US consumers have benefited greatly from lower prices. Putting all of this in reverse for the phony promise of bringing steel jobs back to Pittsburgh would be a catsstrophe.
120
The people complaining about the exportation of jobs are reaping what their fathers have sown.
In the mid to late 50s i can remember reading in the business pages of this paper ads from southern states boasting of the lack of unionization and low labor rates. They were placed to induce migration of factories to their territory. They were successful, most notably with the textile industry. The owners of these plants were induced to leave the people and communities which had made them successful. But having learned how profitable it was to do that why should they not move the production to an even cheaper location
Recently, while in a shop with my wife, I noticed some garments with the label "... Woolen Mills, since 18..". Above that was a label stating "Made in China"
In the mid to late 50s i can remember reading in the business pages of this paper ads from southern states boasting of the lack of unionization and low labor rates. They were placed to induce migration of factories to their territory. They were successful, most notably with the textile industry. The owners of these plants were induced to leave the people and communities which had made them successful. But having learned how profitable it was to do that why should they not move the production to an even cheaper location
Recently, while in a shop with my wife, I noticed some garments with the label "... Woolen Mills, since 18..". Above that was a label stating "Made in China"
17
Those "Made in China" garments might have been The Donald's own brand.
5
It's the French Revolution happening here.
It wasn't a bad economy which drove the French to overthrow the royalty. It was unusually good times for a few years. People got used to the better conditions. When things went back to normal, they blamed the government.
Post war America saw booming times for the average worker. European industry was in shambles. Asia was worse. America farmers fed the world and of factories supplied Post war America saw booming times for the average worker. European industry was in shambles. Asia was worse. America farmers fed the world and our factories supplied everything else, especially modern technology. Lack of education did not prevent Americans from reaching income levels formerly found only for college graduates.
It's now a different world. While there have been localized wars, overall peace has reigned for decades. Europe rebuilt and Asia blossomed. American workers, with their diminished unions, have gone back to the economic level of their pre-war counterparts. They want college graduate living standards while performing the high school level jobs for which they qualify and they are no longer getting it. And they don't like it.
It wasn't a bad economy which drove the French to overthrow the royalty. It was unusually good times for a few years. People got used to the better conditions. When things went back to normal, they blamed the government.
Post war America saw booming times for the average worker. European industry was in shambles. Asia was worse. America farmers fed the world and of factories supplied Post war America saw booming times for the average worker. European industry was in shambles. Asia was worse. America farmers fed the world and our factories supplied everything else, especially modern technology. Lack of education did not prevent Americans from reaching income levels formerly found only for college graduates.
It's now a different world. While there have been localized wars, overall peace has reigned for decades. Europe rebuilt and Asia blossomed. American workers, with their diminished unions, have gone back to the economic level of their pre-war counterparts. They want college graduate living standards while performing the high school level jobs for which they qualify and they are no longer getting it. And they don't like it.
4
I am a bit confused. Mr. Trump wants to protect the american economy - and therefore the middle class working people,he says. I am still not clear where he stands on the following:
Increasing the minimum wage
Eliminating the cap on Social Security taxes
Social Security/Medicaid/Medicare
Eliminating the Estate Tax
Repealing the Affordable Care Act
Reducing or forgiving student debt
Taxing all income at the same rate
These are just some of the answers I need.
Donald?
Increasing the minimum wage
Eliminating the cap on Social Security taxes
Social Security/Medicaid/Medicare
Eliminating the Estate Tax
Repealing the Affordable Care Act
Reducing or forgiving student debt
Taxing all income at the same rate
These are just some of the answers I need.
Donald?
48
Easy-he has addressed each of these items very specifically with weell thought out plans. Please listen carefully:
Increasing the minimum wage
-will not be necessary when America is great again
Eliminating the cap on Social Security taxes
-will not be necessary when America is great again
Social Security/Medicaid/Medicare
-will be fixed necessary when America is great again
Eliminating the Estate Tax
-will not be necessary when America is great again
Repealing the Affordable Care Act
-will be fixed when America is great again
Reducing or forgiving student debt
-will not be necessary when America is great again
Taxing all income at the same rate
-will not be necessary when America is great again
Increasing the minimum wage
-will not be necessary when America is great again
Eliminating the cap on Social Security taxes
-will not be necessary when America is great again
Social Security/Medicaid/Medicare
-will be fixed necessary when America is great again
Eliminating the Estate Tax
-will not be necessary when America is great again
Repealing the Affordable Care Act
-will be fixed when America is great again
Reducing or forgiving student debt
-will not be necessary when America is great again
Taxing all income at the same rate
-will not be necessary when America is great again
5
Exactly, without those points there's no way I'll vote for him.
I think you are confused by thinking what Donald says is anywhere close to where he stands. if only the swiftboat veterans would come out and point out what a flip-flopper Donald really is
The Republican leaders in fact are the Wall Street executives that used pension money investments to build the foreign factories that put those pension owners out of work.
The Republican leaders are the Corporate executives that moved manufacturing out of the country to foreign lands and hired foreign workers at much lower wages displacing the pension owners.
The Republican leaders spend heavily on the campaigns of Republican politicians, more than the Democrat politicians.
The Republican politicians in Congress served the Republican Leaders on Wall Street and the Republican leaders of corporations by legislating for the Republican leaders enabling them to abandon America for decades.
I call it quid pro quo. If it looks like graft, it probably is.
Is Don Trump really a Republican?
The Republican leaders are the Corporate executives that moved manufacturing out of the country to foreign lands and hired foreign workers at much lower wages displacing the pension owners.
The Republican leaders spend heavily on the campaigns of Republican politicians, more than the Democrat politicians.
The Republican politicians in Congress served the Republican Leaders on Wall Street and the Republican leaders of corporations by legislating for the Republican leaders enabling them to abandon America for decades.
I call it quid pro quo. If it looks like graft, it probably is.
Is Don Trump really a Republican?
14
"But it is disconnected from the decades-long direction of the United States economy and the interests of the businesses that are historically a crucial part of the Republican coalition."
What do you mean by "crucial"? It's "values" voters (as if) that drive the GOP and have no identity outside of it. They are the party of large government in everybody's bedroom and doctor's office. Business goes anywhere people are buying what they are selling, which is definitely in every single organized political party.
What do you mean by "crucial"? It's "values" voters (as if) that drive the GOP and have no identity outside of it. They are the party of large government in everybody's bedroom and doctor's office. Business goes anywhere people are buying what they are selling, which is definitely in every single organized political party.
4
Walk in to Home Depot or Lowe's - go to the plumbing section at look at basic galv. or black iron pipe that is cut to length and pre-threaded - where does it come from? China. Think about this - China is able to process iron ore from Australia, make the ore into steel - make pipe - thread it - wrap it and ship it to the US where the pipe is distributed across the US to 1000's of stores.
The cost difference is not all labor - most of the manufacturing process is automated. In many cases the we lose out due to US manufacturing not investing in new capital equipment - but instead these companies are focusing on cost reductions to bump up their share price.
Don't blame cheap foreign labor on everything - to a CEO's it is about share price.
The cost difference is not all labor - most of the manufacturing process is automated. In many cases the we lose out due to US manufacturing not investing in new capital equipment - but instead these companies are focusing on cost reductions to bump up their share price.
Don't blame cheap foreign labor on everything - to a CEO's it is about share price.
71
CEO's have been chasing markets and cheap labor all over the globe. Their companies are doing just fine with this approach. It's the American worker who has been benched in the global economy.
There are no easy answers. The problem is there is no demand for answers either. When's the last time stakeholders in job creation (ex., regulators, legislators, business leaders, union leaders, educators, etc.) were tasked with getting our workers back in the game? Hasn't happened.
The real challenge is that what needs to happen has never happened. This is why all the usual suspects are not attractive candidates. It really is time for an outside-the-box thinker.
There are no easy answers. The problem is there is no demand for answers either. When's the last time stakeholders in job creation (ex., regulators, legislators, business leaders, union leaders, educators, etc.) were tasked with getting our workers back in the game? Hasn't happened.
The real challenge is that what needs to happen has never happened. This is why all the usual suspects are not attractive candidates. It really is time for an outside-the-box thinker.
13
A great deal of the cost savings of China made products results from the fact that they do not have the environmental and workers' rights regulations that we thankfully have here. We save money because we let China spoil their environment and exploit their workers. I suspect that part of Trump's rather vague way of accomplishing his wonderful feats will be to roll back on both environmental and workers' rights regulations-just what many businesspeople in America hope for to get his/her short term bonus. This will clearly NOT help the workingman in any way.
Bring back all the coal jobs? Those are thankfully gone forever. Scary as to how many people seem to lack the critical thinking skills to see though all this and actually support this bonehead.
Bring back all the coal jobs? Those are thankfully gone forever. Scary as to how many people seem to lack the critical thinking skills to see though all this and actually support this bonehead.
4
Nations have prospered from trade since the beginning of civilization.
Trade agreements are not the problem.
This nation is a nation of immigrants, and the nation grew wealthy attracting talented people from around the globe, though each new wave did have a backlash of bigotry and discrimination from those more established.
Immigrants are not the problem.
The problem is the wealth from free trade and immigrants accrues disproportionately to the wealthiest people - people like Donald Trump.
He complains about trade agreements, but produces his cheap quality products overseas.
The Corporate Establishment personified by Donald Trump refuses to pay their share of taxes - getting preferential tax treatment for income from capital over wages.
No wonder he won't release his taxes to the public. He would be ashamed.
The deferral of multinational income from taxation before repatriation is a loop hole that has spawned the Double Irish tax scam and numerous corporate inversions, allowing corporate taxes paid as a % of GDP to decline despite record profits versus GDP.
Trump is a huckster who defrauds gullible students at Trump U and has a pattern of bankrupting his companies after extracting cash that could never be reasonably repaid.
For nearly 40 years he has been the worst representation of the worst practices in the Corporate Establishment.
He is the Pied Piper of Brexit-like calls to self destruction.
Trade agreements are not the problem.
This nation is a nation of immigrants, and the nation grew wealthy attracting talented people from around the globe, though each new wave did have a backlash of bigotry and discrimination from those more established.
Immigrants are not the problem.
The problem is the wealth from free trade and immigrants accrues disproportionately to the wealthiest people - people like Donald Trump.
He complains about trade agreements, but produces his cheap quality products overseas.
The Corporate Establishment personified by Donald Trump refuses to pay their share of taxes - getting preferential tax treatment for income from capital over wages.
No wonder he won't release his taxes to the public. He would be ashamed.
The deferral of multinational income from taxation before repatriation is a loop hole that has spawned the Double Irish tax scam and numerous corporate inversions, allowing corporate taxes paid as a % of GDP to decline despite record profits versus GDP.
Trump is a huckster who defrauds gullible students at Trump U and has a pattern of bankrupting his companies after extracting cash that could never be reasonably repaid.
For nearly 40 years he has been the worst representation of the worst practices in the Corporate Establishment.
He is the Pied Piper of Brexit-like calls to self destruction.
223
Trump actually has a plan to ban deferral of foreign income after allowing for a one-time tax holiday of 10%. Clinton is a shill for the monied interests of multinational finance. Don't play yourself.
2
Apple uses more than "a few dozen" Chinese workers at Foxconn. I think more than a few dozen, in fact, jump out of the windows at Foxconn annually. Foxconn employs 1.3 million workers. As a globalist or Alan Greenspan might day, "we have raised millions out of poverty around the world".
Yes, they've raised them to the 22nd floor in a cramped building residing in a dictatorship with few labor laws. In other words, the globalist corporations and their bank benefactors have increased their margins by finding cheaper, non-American labor, and those left behind are, in the main, definitely not finding high tech "health care jobs" --- which, by the way, we are all paying for in runaway health care premiums and the U.S. underclass is growing in size everyday.
I think the steel job metaphor misses the greater the point that endless chasing of higher margins and higher yields without any responsibility to community or nation isn't working for 90% the United States, and if it doesn't work for the majority, except some major challenges. Ironically, the failure to reform capitalism or ignore the faults of globalization may lead directly to an even more deflationary socialism.
Yes, they've raised them to the 22nd floor in a cramped building residing in a dictatorship with few labor laws. In other words, the globalist corporations and their bank benefactors have increased their margins by finding cheaper, non-American labor, and those left behind are, in the main, definitely not finding high tech "health care jobs" --- which, by the way, we are all paying for in runaway health care premiums and the U.S. underclass is growing in size everyday.
I think the steel job metaphor misses the greater the point that endless chasing of higher margins and higher yields without any responsibility to community or nation isn't working for 90% the United States, and if it doesn't work for the majority, except some major challenges. Ironically, the failure to reform capitalism or ignore the faults of globalization may lead directly to an even more deflationary socialism.
40
I'm in no hurry to work at Foxconn but imagine what the situation in China would be were they to sustain a decline in manufacturing jobs like the one the US sustained from WW II to today 38% to 8.5%). China has 900 million working age people, the US 200 million. No doubt China has put off automating some of its manufacturing just so people have something to do.
Also, actually health care insurance premiums aren't running away but the out of pocket costs are. A net minus for workers.
Also, actually health care insurance premiums aren't running away but the out of pocket costs are. A net minus for workers.
Trade is a class issue. Those who work suffer from trade deals. Those who own the country benefit. Since the rich control what the government does we get trade deals. Wages for workers have been stagnant for decades. Meanwhile, all economic growth goes to make the wealthy richer. And the government makes them pay less in taxes.
40
The 21st Century Know-Nothing Party Standard Bearer. And both Republicans and Democrats are responsible for his ridiculousness resonating with people who've been ignored and lied to. If those folks think it's actually possible to turn the clock back, it's only because those in power---the traditionalists in both parties---have failed to explain exactly what's happening. They've just talked in platitudes and made promises no one can keep. Reap the whirlwind, all of us.
14
Fairly taxing fat cats like Donald Trump and using the revenue to repair our crumbling infrastructure and developing clean sources of energy will do infinitely more for displaced workers and the middle class than double the price of big-screen TVs by tearing up international trade agreements.
125
Clinton is an elite that helped ship off millions of jobs to China. In return, we were supposed to get free trade. Instead, we got the shaft - China protects its key growth industries from US competition.
China effectively banned Google by insisting on censorship. It outright bans Facebook. It undermines Amazon (one reason I have Alibaba stock).
Worse, our elite politicians haven't done anything while we got shafted for years. That includes the Clintons.
I guarantee you that Trump will not get shafted. It's just in his nature to fight. That is what we need at this time.
China effectively banned Google by insisting on censorship. It outright bans Facebook. It undermines Amazon (one reason I have Alibaba stock).
Worse, our elite politicians haven't done anything while we got shafted for years. That includes the Clintons.
I guarantee you that Trump will not get shafted. It's just in his nature to fight. That is what we need at this time.
18
Building a wall around the country, literally, rhetorically and metaphorically, is not fighting. Your hero seems to already have surrendered
Hi Ray; I'm a little confused about Clinton shipping jobs to China. Are we talking about NAFTA, in which case China is not involved. Are we talking TPP, in which case the goal was specifically to preempt China and make sure WE were the ones making the deal, not them. Seems pretty smart to me.
Not sure how either Clinton is shipping jobs to China, but I'm sure you're going to educate me.
Not sure how either Clinton is shipping jobs to China, but I'm sure you're going to educate me.
It may be in Trump's nature to fight, but judging from his four bankruptcies, it's not in his nature to win. Unless you count all the investors, contractors, and employees he's shafted over the years...
I buy American whenever I can, but I am not sure that renegotiating our trade agreements is a good idea. How about renegotiating our tax structure so that we can put resources into providing diverse opportunities for our citizens? Our government negotiated trade agreements that help the world economy and the 1%. If we subsidized artists, farmers, small manufacturers, and those who build and repair as much as we subsidize those who invest capital, we would be stronger and more secure.
25
It's far to glib to claim tat since manufacturing output in the US continues to increase, all is well. Since the mid - 1960's, the population of the US has increased by nearly 70% (200m to 320m), while manufacturing output has increased only modestly. Manufacturing has fallen as a percentage of GDP and manufacturing employment has declined steeply. Moreover, jobs in those areas the economy that are growing often pay less than traditional manufacturing jobs. Alas, all is not well.
13
HRC welcomes the illegal immigrants even though almost all of them are poorly educated and have few skills. Had we still had a robust manufacturing economy, these people could have found jobs that would have helped them into the middle class. The problem is that Free Trade bills (such as the ones signed by her husband and the one written under her stint as Secretary of State - the TPP) allow goods to be manufactured abroad, but sold here without any tariffs.
American citizens cannot find jobs in manufacturing yet, HRC wants to expand our population by legitimizing illegal immigrants.
American citizens cannot find jobs in manufacturing yet, HRC wants to expand our population by legitimizing illegal immigrants.
7
I don't agree with Trump, but more people need to consider what Larry Summers has said about this--namely the elites have not done a good job of trying to ameliorate the cost to the losers in these trade deals. I would guess that each trade pact has a positive net economic return, but those returns are probably not shared in an equitable manner.
82
In addition to dealing with job loss from trade deals, job losses due to increasing automation need to be dealt with: free training for new jobs, relocation assistance, etc. As other commenters on this and related stories have noted, the trade deals are only a (small) part of what's going on.
7
Maybe there are more health care jobs, but they are not equivalent to the steel mill jobs of yore with the possibility of a lifetime spent with one company in a well-paying hourly job. These health care jobs are more insecure and less well paying.
The nostalgia comes from the sense that once you could decide on a job and assume you would move through the ranks within a stable system and company. That stability no longer exists.
Frankly, we simply have not come to terms with the opposition between manufacturing efficiency and strong employment. Every field needs less people to do the work today and we have an increasing population.
The nostalgia comes from the sense that once you could decide on a job and assume you would move through the ranks within a stable system and company. That stability no longer exists.
Frankly, we simply have not come to terms with the opposition between manufacturing efficiency and strong employment. Every field needs less people to do the work today and we have an increasing population.
19
While nostalgia has its place, I am not sure its in economics...
We live in a different time than the generations past- think iphones, ipads, amazon, spotify and much longer life expectancies in Health where mankind has made significant advances in medicine. As with the lifecyle of any sector- gains in productivity and innovation have moved beyond Industrial, Commodities and Chemicals and Hardware, to Technology, Healthcare and Finance (admittedly, creative finance from the likes of Lehman need to be reined in). To resist that natural evolution in the name of strong (protected) employment, is a distinct choice for a country and its peoples. Alas- its one which could damage the Unites States' competitiveness irreparably... One can't turn back the ungodly advancements made in science, economics and world business and expect things to return to that "happy place" of yore!
We live in a different time than the generations past- think iphones, ipads, amazon, spotify and much longer life expectancies in Health where mankind has made significant advances in medicine. As with the lifecyle of any sector- gains in productivity and innovation have moved beyond Industrial, Commodities and Chemicals and Hardware, to Technology, Healthcare and Finance (admittedly, creative finance from the likes of Lehman need to be reined in). To resist that natural evolution in the name of strong (protected) employment, is a distinct choice for a country and its peoples. Alas- its one which could damage the Unites States' competitiveness irreparably... One can't turn back the ungodly advancements made in science, economics and world business and expect things to return to that "happy place" of yore!
2
Setting Trump aside for a moment--Is the author stating that NAFTA was good for America? How about the TPP?
The fact the US Chamber of Commerce blasts Trump and supports Clinton makes me feel no better about Clinton. Since when is the endorsement of the US Chamber of Commerce a good thing.
Take a deep breath. Just because Trump says something does not automatically make it wrong. He is not fit to be President, but he cannot be used as the excuse for supporting free trade agreements that hurt America. If Trump says the Iraq invasion was wrong is the Times going to argue it was great?
The fact the US Chamber of Commerce blasts Trump and supports Clinton makes me feel no better about Clinton. Since when is the endorsement of the US Chamber of Commerce a good thing.
Take a deep breath. Just because Trump says something does not automatically make it wrong. He is not fit to be President, but he cannot be used as the excuse for supporting free trade agreements that hurt America. If Trump says the Iraq invasion was wrong is the Times going to argue it was great?
45
It's not the trade deals that hurt American workers. Trade deals and globalization are inevitable. It is how they are implemented and who has to suffer the losses of millions of American jobs.
Where were our political leaders when jobs were shipped out of the country? Cowering in a corner, along with the rest of us because we swallowed hook, line and sinker the idea that since we now compete with the world we have to get paid what they get paid.
Who crafted that question? Our heartless CEOs and our gutless politicians. That's who.
There was nothing stopping our leaders to help American workers and not allow businesses to completely abandon the plight of losing their jobs, and in a greater measure, their dignity. The costs of the losses to the American worker should have been shifted to the corporations. Our politicians could have done that. Our labor unions also could have demanded this from business.
But I never heard that. Year after year American workers nearly took it on their own the losses of those millions of jobs. I never see any real help, no concerted recognition of what should be done for our workers. I believe the scapegoating of trade deals absolve the real culprits, our politicians. who do nothing for workers.
Nothing in a trade deal stops our leaders to step up for workers. Not to give workers everything they demand. But not to allow that workers absorb the costs of that job loss almost completely on their own. This has to stop.
Where were our political leaders when jobs were shipped out of the country? Cowering in a corner, along with the rest of us because we swallowed hook, line and sinker the idea that since we now compete with the world we have to get paid what they get paid.
Who crafted that question? Our heartless CEOs and our gutless politicians. That's who.
There was nothing stopping our leaders to help American workers and not allow businesses to completely abandon the plight of losing their jobs, and in a greater measure, their dignity. The costs of the losses to the American worker should have been shifted to the corporations. Our politicians could have done that. Our labor unions also could have demanded this from business.
But I never heard that. Year after year American workers nearly took it on their own the losses of those millions of jobs. I never see any real help, no concerted recognition of what should be done for our workers. I believe the scapegoating of trade deals absolve the real culprits, our politicians. who do nothing for workers.
Nothing in a trade deal stops our leaders to step up for workers. Not to give workers everything they demand. But not to allow that workers absorb the costs of that job loss almost completely on their own. This has to stop.
20
And I suppose you always buy "Made in USA" to support American jobs. The fact is that "Made in USA" is worth 10% more at retail. Basically, the cost of shipping from China.
2
Clinton is hammered from the left on being too conservative and hammered from the right on being too liberal.
Actually, this is indeed the way to get stuff done-a Democrat centrist in the White House will do just fine. Hate her personally if you like, but can we please try to get over this personal animosity and try to accomplish something to move us forward?
Can we now focus on Congress? If she is up against the McConnell and Ryan gauntlet then NOTHING will get done and we will have another eight years of Republicans trying to do nothing more than keep Hillary to one term. (Obama's second term was met by Republicans with revenge for America electing him again).
If McConnell and Ryan had any cogent ideas for the middle and lower class then I would listen but for the last eight years I've heard nothing but great plans to further the wealthy class at the expense of the rest of us.
Actually, this is indeed the way to get stuff done-a Democrat centrist in the White House will do just fine. Hate her personally if you like, but can we please try to get over this personal animosity and try to accomplish something to move us forward?
Can we now focus on Congress? If she is up against the McConnell and Ryan gauntlet then NOTHING will get done and we will have another eight years of Republicans trying to do nothing more than keep Hillary to one term. (Obama's second term was met by Republicans with revenge for America electing him again).
If McConnell and Ryan had any cogent ideas for the middle and lower class then I would listen but for the last eight years I've heard nothing but great plans to further the wealthy class at the expense of the rest of us.
1
This is how ignorant the man is:
I have the long view on globalization, as my industry, textiles and apparel, was the first casualty of offshore production, going back 25 years. Other low tech industries followed soon after. We supplied components such as zippers and elastic in huge production quantities.
Having lost all our U.S. apparel manufacturing customers who used our goods, we painfully reinvented ourselves to retail sewing supplies to cottage industries we realized would always sew domestically – alteration shops, upholsterers, but mostly home sewers who must repair or make their own apparel. They simply can’t afford to buy off the rack or dispose of old garments. Ironically, they fit the profile of the Trump supporter.
Over 90% of our line of supplies and fabrics is produced in China. Our long time domestic suppliers went out of business long ago. We buy and sell at fair prices. Being cut off from our sources, or paying more as a result of increased tariffs, would deliver a punishing blow to our customers, if we would manage to stay in business at all.
Mr. Trump would have me, and thousands of other small former low tech manufacturing businesses with similar histories, reinvent ourselves yet again. Mine is a true American story, of how a small operator can find a way to help those in need and KEEP our country great. It’s fine the way it is.
I have the long view on globalization, as my industry, textiles and apparel, was the first casualty of offshore production, going back 25 years. Other low tech industries followed soon after. We supplied components such as zippers and elastic in huge production quantities.
Having lost all our U.S. apparel manufacturing customers who used our goods, we painfully reinvented ourselves to retail sewing supplies to cottage industries we realized would always sew domestically – alteration shops, upholsterers, but mostly home sewers who must repair or make their own apparel. They simply can’t afford to buy off the rack or dispose of old garments. Ironically, they fit the profile of the Trump supporter.
Over 90% of our line of supplies and fabrics is produced in China. Our long time domestic suppliers went out of business long ago. We buy and sell at fair prices. Being cut off from our sources, or paying more as a result of increased tariffs, would deliver a punishing blow to our customers, if we would manage to stay in business at all.
Mr. Trump would have me, and thousands of other small former low tech manufacturing businesses with similar histories, reinvent ourselves yet again. Mine is a true American story, of how a small operator can find a way to help those in need and KEEP our country great. It’s fine the way it is.
186
Living in your long view is not fun. Hope your grandkids have a great life.
I used to sew, not of necessity, but love of craft, design and materials. It broke my heart to give it up, but there was no point anymore, as it became impossible to find anything but low quality fabrics and notions. You say women sew of necessity, but I don't see how that can be the case, when buying new Made in China clothes at Target is cheaper than sewing. Many of us who loved sewing as an art have given it up, because the joy is gone when there is nothing but cheap junk to work with. Americans are spoiled with quantity over quality, to our detriment, as a whole lot of American creativity and resourcefulness have been lost to globalization.
6
"The 5,100 steel production jobs lost in Pittsburgh are dwarfed by the 66,000 health care jobs gained in the same span."
And my guess is that the collective salaries of the former steel workers is now bring split between the 66,000 "health care workers."
And my guess is that the collective salaries of the former steel workers is now bring split between the 66,000 "health care workers."
34
I would love to see a breakdown of what those health care job look like and how much they pay. What percentage of them are for home health aides and nursing assistants in long-term care and assisted living facilities where the pay abysmally low and risk of on-the-job injury not insignificant? I appreciate the need for trade but the author needs to be honest and stop discounting the importance of FAIR trade. Our current situation was not entirely inevitable but also the result of policy choices that benefit "the markets".
15
The 5,100 steel jobs created wealth in the form of products to sell. 66,000 heath care jobs supply a service but do not create wealth.
Economies require creation of products to sell not services to be variable. In short a service economy does not work.
Economies require creation of products to sell not services to be variable. In short a service economy does not work.
5
The steel workers were (mostly) unionized - that's why they were good-paying jobs. Health-care jobs (particularly for aides and the like) are generally not unionized - which is why they often lack benefits, let alone decent salaries.
Anyone want to bet on whether the Republican nominee will also call for the return of unionized labor, when he returns manufacturing jobs to the U.S.?
Anyone want to bet on whether the Republican nominee will also call for the return of unionized labor, when he returns manufacturing jobs to the U.S.?
2
The presumptive GOP'er nominee parroted a lot of talking points, but provided no substance, and we're pretty certain he doesn't know the difference between the Economic Policy Institute and A.E.I. - his speech writer was merely grabbing out of the ether things that might sound good while standing in front of some aluminum cans on Drumpf's (2nd) trip to the Pittsburgh suburb, where the citizenry is complaining that the mayor invited him.
39
"But it is disconnected from the decades-long direction of the United States economy and the interests of the businesses that are historically a crucial part of the Republican coalition."
Neither of these sound bad to me. The decades long direction of the US economy has been to concentrate wealth in the already wealthy, and that has always been the goal of Republican leaders. The push for rapid globalization has created very real problems that can't be glossed over by ivory tower economists, most of whom are in the pocket of global enterprises.
Neither of these sound bad to me. The decades long direction of the US economy has been to concentrate wealth in the already wealthy, and that has always been the goal of Republican leaders. The push for rapid globalization has created very real problems that can't be glossed over by ivory tower economists, most of whom are in the pocket of global enterprises.
23
@David: My quibble with your comment is the Democrats are also in favor of Free Trade Agreements. Bill Clinton supported NAFTA, and Obama is working overtime to get the TPP passed. There is bipartisan support for free trade that Hillary had to temporarily pull away from to beat Bernie. If elected, she will support the TPP claiming it covers all of the concerns about labor rights and the environment she ever had.
Follow the money!!!! it leads from special interests to both parties.
Follow the money!!!! it leads from special interests to both parties.
23
"most of whom are in the pocket of global enterprises." As a lifelong Democrat, I have no problem pointing out that the Clintons fit that bill as well ...
3
Health care jobs only move wealth from one person to another while manufacturing creates things of "Added value" by starting with raw materials, then machines and energy, operated by people and processed by people, after which all is done, a profit is had.
The declines of manufacturing from 38 to 8.5 percent is the important figure you cite. I know well that automation is integrated into modern manufacturing rendering fewer needed employees, but that massive decline in manufacturing means a massive decline in value added profits.
Excess employees and a lack of sustained profits to support them is a serious problem.
We cannot become wealthy as a nation that cleans each others carpets.
The declines of manufacturing from 38 to 8.5 percent is the important figure you cite. I know well that automation is integrated into modern manufacturing rendering fewer needed employees, but that massive decline in manufacturing means a massive decline in value added profits.
Excess employees and a lack of sustained profits to support them is a serious problem.
We cannot become wealthy as a nation that cleans each others carpets.
27
A nation of call centers, Starbucks, and Target, each serving the other, very few making actual money. Agree completely.
3
I'm always surprised when I hear people say that health (or education) is not valuable. Health care jobs don't simply move wealth from one person to another. They often make people healthier which to many of us is better than being wealthier.
my $.02.
my $.02.
1
The crisis that has bedeviled post-industrial, finance-focused capitalism is, at best, only marginally attributable to the decline of domestic manufacturing. Far more pernicious has been the concomitant decline in unions. Manufacturing jobs were never "good" jobs; what they were for a brief time were well-paying jobs. And they paid well because those who worked them spilled blood and tears for the right to unionize.
154
The "decades-long direction of the United States economy", illustrated in the graph of this article, suggests a "disconnect" is what we need.
10
Yes we do need to reverse the idea that cheap stuff is worth losing jobs. And yes productivity will reduce some jobs as in the steel business, and they will be in different areas of the country. We have a mini mill that recycles steel here in Tn. No coal, no iron either, just scrap and reasonably priced electricity and labor. Not to mention no unions. We can and should have most of the jobs that our demand supports, they are currently located around the world.
5
This notion of "reverse the idea that cheap stuff is worth losing jobs." is beside the point. Businesses have been moving locations, seeking competitive advantage since the Industrial Revolution. New England lost its textile mills to the South, the South lost its mills to overseas. For that matter, England lost its mills to New England. Wichita lost aircraft plants to Seattle and Seattle is seeing its manufacturing aircraft going to South Carolina.
The only way to stay ahead in this type of economy is a well educated and flexible workforce.
The only way to stay ahead in this type of economy is a well educated and flexible workforce.
92
Ah yes, the "well educated workforce", that canard that places the blame squarely on the worker for not being smart or ambitious enough. Perhaps we can send them to reeducation camps, I mean, for-profit universities, to be trained for jobs which will ultimately be done either by a machine or an indentured H1B worker, leaving them drowning in debt and despondency.
16
@Stan Continople - That's really a rather bizarre understanding of what is meant when someone refers to a "well educated workforce". It's not about placing "the blame squarely on the worker for not being smart or ambitious enough," but rather pointing out that too many children are being denied a quality elementary and high school education because we, as a country, do not place enough value on educating our children to make sure that our schools, especially those in both poor urban and poor rural settings receive sufficient funding to ensure quality teachers, books, and equipment. Further, it's pointing out that too many young people are hampered in their ability to continue their education on beyond high school by the fact that higher education is becoming more and more costly. It's most likely also referring to the fact that too much of the teaching load in non-profit colleges and universities is provided by poorly compensated adjunct professors who are hampered in their ability to educate by the realities of cobbling together a living income by teaching at multiple schools and by not being an acknowledged part of the academic structure at a given school. You seem to have made up some other interpretation.
1
If he keeps talking this way, Hillary is either gonna have to get to his left, or Trump is gonna take her to the cleaners. In a race between two people who are running for President because they can't think of anything else to do, the biggest pandering liar wins.