Far fewer people are affected by eating disorders which result in a low BMI. Far, far more people, especially women are obese (approaching 40%) and anything to change the perception that the new "normal" is normal is imperative! If anything, people who are above a 25 BMI should be banned from modeling!
8
In my opinion, part of the effect of ridiculously thin female models warps the expectations of men. It can lead men to subconsciously scorn "overweight" women or to make unwelcome suggestions to their female partners about whether they should exercise or diet to achieve a thinner body. Even just head-turning and watching a super-thin woman or looking up at a sexy ad for longer than necessary is probably noticed by the female companions you're with. I think the opinions of men that are just a erosive to female self-dignity as the effect of those women viewing the ads themselves. I'd be happy to see these ads go into the same trash can as beauty pageants, which are a ridiculous extension of this concept that men get to look at female bodies in bikinis and judge their worth, and that women will sign up for them just for a chance at the fame and money that powerful men will dole out to them.
10
When anxiety, perfectionism, and a need for control collide, idealized imagery can trigger anorexia, a mental illness that has biological and social components. Advertisers who use gaunt models in advertising campaigns can "pull the trigger" on a disease that can be chronic and sometimes deadly. If you review Gucci's handbag ads from 2011 and 2015, you will note that large totes look most attractive on slender frames. Wire sculptures as an alternative, anyone? Aesthetics are ephemeral. Healthy practices should prevail and endure.
Slender ballerinas are easier to lift and look more ethereal than heavy ones but let Colombian artist Fernando Botero, whose stated goal is to exalt life through volume and sensuality, have his way with pudgy primas who belly up to the barre. You'd be misguided to sneer and snicker. He is not a satirist.
Our nation's ban on cigarette ads in 1971 ultimately proved impressively effective. (According to the World Health Organization, about a third of youth experimentation with tobacco is attributable to advertising, promotion, and sponsorship.) Let's protect a vulnerable population and not those merchants and fashionistas who would exploit or ignore them for profit. Imagery and words are profoundly persuasive. So are celebrities' behavior and endorsements. Education can only accomplish so much.
Progress, creativity, and innovation are in order. It's time to abandon "waifer"-thin marketing.
Slender ballerinas are easier to lift and look more ethereal than heavy ones but let Colombian artist Fernando Botero, whose stated goal is to exalt life through volume and sensuality, have his way with pudgy primas who belly up to the barre. You'd be misguided to sneer and snicker. He is not a satirist.
Our nation's ban on cigarette ads in 1971 ultimately proved impressively effective. (According to the World Health Organization, about a third of youth experimentation with tobacco is attributable to advertising, promotion, and sponsorship.) Let's protect a vulnerable population and not those merchants and fashionistas who would exploit or ignore them for profit. Imagery and words are profoundly persuasive. So are celebrities' behavior and endorsements. Education can only accomplish so much.
Progress, creativity, and innovation are in order. It's time to abandon "waifer"-thin marketing.
6
Banning images of "too thin" models to promote healthy body images presupposes that women & girls are so without agency that they can't decide for themselves what is healthy for them. High fashion ads don't exist in a vacuum...they are surrounded also by images of women athletes, executives, teachers, mothers.... And importantly by actual, real women who we talk with, and interact with every day. Yes, sadly there are girls (and boys...no one comments on the barrage of impossible abs & biceps seen daily in ads) for whom these high fashion images take on outsized importance. But this is an issue that deserves & requires more than the band-aid of banning images. Though diversity in body type would be welcome in fashion, it's important to remember fashion is not real life...just another business trying to sell something.
2
Shouldn't we also be concerned about presenting a narrow range of male bodies determined to be the ideal? I was recently reminded of that during the world wide accolades for Ali. Not many men could ever begin to aspire to looking so good from head to toe. But is that all we should be exhibiting as currently is the case in fashion and sports magazines?
4
So many words, but none of them about the motives of body shamers. No matter what an advertisement says to you, its sole purpose is to make you want the product. Blurring the lines between selling and bad psychology is prevalent in most medias today. So question the motives of these sham-masters before you are trapped by them. For the advertiser it is a transaction for profit; for buyer it should a fair trade that doesn't include vandalizing your self image. The rules are rigged on this point, so it's on all of us to evaluate the total and real costs of shopping.
4
Oh! Only pictures which celebrate chubby? Then should not all art be removed from from galleries that do not conform to the "relaxed" body type? Should not all ballerinas weighing less than...say...200+ pounds be banned from the stage and all Pas de Deux lifts restricted to 3 inches or less(to lessen ankle and back injury)?
Don't forget the men who might be herniated in trying to achieve that "ripped" abdomen inspired by some proposition found in a TV commercial.
Possible extensions of such prohibitions on choice to be considered are only limited by imagination! Happily, I'm confidant that John Oliver will turn these new prohibitions into a high art form.
And if we are going to protect the impressionable from images of the unhealthful, do we not need to ban all alcohol, meat, gun, sugar drinks and auto commercials?
Let us move on to psychological health! Should not all advertising be screened for potential "micro-agressions" and be preceded (where possible) by trigger warnings...based on race, religion, ethnicity or gender preference?
After Brexit, it is understandable that British governing bodies (no pun intended) would wish to restrict access to undesirable inspiration.
Don't forget the men who might be herniated in trying to achieve that "ripped" abdomen inspired by some proposition found in a TV commercial.
Possible extensions of such prohibitions on choice to be considered are only limited by imagination! Happily, I'm confidant that John Oliver will turn these new prohibitions into a high art form.
And if we are going to protect the impressionable from images of the unhealthful, do we not need to ban all alcohol, meat, gun, sugar drinks and auto commercials?
Let us move on to psychological health! Should not all advertising be screened for potential "micro-agressions" and be preceded (where possible) by trigger warnings...based on race, religion, ethnicity or gender preference?
After Brexit, it is understandable that British governing bodies (no pun intended) would wish to restrict access to undesirable inspiration.
15
The ads (beatings) will continue until morale improves.
1
This is why this issue seems so laughable to most regular people. Society would like to stop making women feel bad when they see "unrealistic"* models, yet society still wants to see them. Let's say we banned only Macy's from using "skinny" models in their advertisements. Would that be fair? I think everyone would agree it's not. So, we're all up in arms about this issue but yet most people still want to buy products advertised by young, white, attractive women. If that's what the market wants, we either have to accept it or decide to ditch the capitalistic way...
* How "unrealistic" are these images really? Photoshop aside, at least one woman is exactly that size...
* How "unrealistic" are these images really? Photoshop aside, at least one woman is exactly that size...
7
This completely changed my view. I always acknowledged certain women who are open about their certain body type, but never realized the impact they are truly are having. I agree with the notion that women should be aware of certain body types, however agree with Sadiq Khan, especially because the youth. Although we should know our own body type and be pleased with that, sometimes getting off a train, and seeing a constant, unavoidable image, can be extremely harmful especially to the youth. As time goes by, and the continuation of beautiful strong women speak up. I think... eventually it does not matter what's on a poster, as long as we are fully aware and are extremely happy with our body type. However this will take time, many women and girls are still not pleased with what they were born with, because this common stigma is one that has been cultivated since the beginning of time. Women have always been ridiculed for not having a certain look, and now in this beautiful and new world, we are finally becoming more accepting towards this issue. So I agree that we should be aware of our body types and accepting of it, however many women and girls are still not aware nor accepting of their body types.
1
Fashion models are skinny for a reason. Designers want to showcase the CLOTHES; designs can best be compared if shown on similar body types. Note, I don't say similar "people." Personhood is irrelevant here -- the models function as display hangers, not individuals. But when they became celebrities, comparisons and convolution entered the picture.
It's utterly unreasonable to opt for and glamorize skinniness away from the runway. A woman in a toothpaste ad doesn't need to be tall and thin. But once models were perceived as aspirational figures, girls went bananas trying to emulate them, to copy their hair, nails, make-up, styles -- and body type.
It would be better all around if impressionable girls could see a balanced diversity of body types in ads, including -- but in no way restricted to -- thin builds. Better still, if there were more emphasis on the interests, talents, skills, and accomplishments of the women & girls who populate the ubiquitous ads that invade our consciousness daily. Right now that's limited to athletes immediately after the Olympics or U.S. Open.
Parenthetically, it would be great if boys weren't fed a steady diet of high-profile athletes, too. But I wouldn't suggest that their images be forbidden.
It's utterly unreasonable to opt for and glamorize skinniness away from the runway. A woman in a toothpaste ad doesn't need to be tall and thin. But once models were perceived as aspirational figures, girls went bananas trying to emulate them, to copy their hair, nails, make-up, styles -- and body type.
It would be better all around if impressionable girls could see a balanced diversity of body types in ads, including -- but in no way restricted to -- thin builds. Better still, if there were more emphasis on the interests, talents, skills, and accomplishments of the women & girls who populate the ubiquitous ads that invade our consciousness daily. Right now that's limited to athletes immediately after the Olympics or U.S. Open.
Parenthetically, it would be great if boys weren't fed a steady diet of high-profile athletes, too. But I wouldn't suggest that their images be forbidden.
12
So, what's next? No more Calvin Klein ads with 20 something year old guys showing washboard abs, because it makes ME feel inadequate?
And after than? Will the movie industry have to stop using actors who portray our body ideals?
Please people, wake up and stop infantilizing us.
And after than? Will the movie industry have to stop using actors who portray our body ideals?
Please people, wake up and stop infantilizing us.
29
Stigmatize thin young women? Thin young, generally pretty, women? Oh Yeah. That will work.
8
A reply to all those who point to the "free" market and, either:
1. wonder, with confusion, why it doesn't serve as a corrective for the thin = beautiful and sexy equation that wrongly excludes many women,
or
2. believe (mistakenly) that sales indicate rightness - as if the market works in a democratic way that "proves" the correctness of the thin = beautiful and sexy equation.
No. The market is not "free." By itself, it proves nothing and it may, only with concerted effort by caring citizens, correct something.
Our so-called free market is constrained by social norms and cultural stereotypes that (preemptively) restrict the range of choices available to consumers. The market - bolstered by advertising - does not reflect or express our choices. Rather, it "produces" them, just as it "produces" our tastes and needs along with all the goods "needed" to satisfy them.
Ideology trumps economy - for better and worse.
1. wonder, with confusion, why it doesn't serve as a corrective for the thin = beautiful and sexy equation that wrongly excludes many women,
or
2. believe (mistakenly) that sales indicate rightness - as if the market works in a democratic way that "proves" the correctness of the thin = beautiful and sexy equation.
No. The market is not "free." By itself, it proves nothing and it may, only with concerted effort by caring citizens, correct something.
Our so-called free market is constrained by social norms and cultural stereotypes that (preemptively) restrict the range of choices available to consumers. The market - bolstered by advertising - does not reflect or express our choices. Rather, it "produces" them, just as it "produces" our tastes and needs along with all the goods "needed" to satisfy them.
Ideology trumps economy - for better and worse.
4
This kind of censorship may seem benign but it's not. It's comes from a deeply held belief that once in power "you" have the right to tell people what they can see, read, say, write and so on. We have so much censorship now and much of it for allegedly "good" reasons but people need to stop and think. Once this power is confirmed and becomes routine it will be hard to wrest from the government.
9
I think the way forward is to promote a healthy range of sizes in the media. Healthy is the key word here; not emaciated, or obese...healthy!
I have been very slim my whole life and have had some very mean remarks made about it within earshot or to my face, advice I certainly didn't ask for, which made me uncomfortable (it seems that telling me I'm too thin is more acceptable than for me to comment on someone who is overweight, which is a huge social no-no). Just because someone is slim or 'skinny' does not mean they have an eating disorder. Of course, I do understand that some women struggle to lose weight as I struggle to put it on.
I do draw the line at the media presenting an overweight women as 'healthy' though, it becomes very dangerous to say 'be happy whatever size you are', if that means that everyone should be happy with heart disease, diabetes and other illnesses associated with being overweight...I think we should all aspire to be the best people we can be and be mindful in regards to our diets and exercise, to be really honest with ourselves...everything else falls into place.
Also, on the subject of 'banning' triggers, we should concentrate on educating people about health, exercise, what real beauty is and how to embrace that, not shielding the sensitive masses so that they don't have to cope with it.
I have been very slim my whole life and have had some very mean remarks made about it within earshot or to my face, advice I certainly didn't ask for, which made me uncomfortable (it seems that telling me I'm too thin is more acceptable than for me to comment on someone who is overweight, which is a huge social no-no). Just because someone is slim or 'skinny' does not mean they have an eating disorder. Of course, I do understand that some women struggle to lose weight as I struggle to put it on.
I do draw the line at the media presenting an overweight women as 'healthy' though, it becomes very dangerous to say 'be happy whatever size you are', if that means that everyone should be happy with heart disease, diabetes and other illnesses associated with being overweight...I think we should all aspire to be the best people we can be and be mindful in regards to our diets and exercise, to be really honest with ourselves...everything else falls into place.
Also, on the subject of 'banning' triggers, we should concentrate on educating people about health, exercise, what real beauty is and how to embrace that, not shielding the sensitive masses so that they don't have to cope with it.
11
I have personally thought on several occasions, perusing the Times fashion layouts, that the fashion department chooses anorexic looking models - models who look unhealthily thin. So I'm not surprised to find that the Chief Fashion Critic wants carte blanche to continue to run fashion shoots this way. I was a little surprised to see her views show up in the editorial section today. I personally would like to see the Times and other publications exercise more pressure on advertisers by choosing not to run ads using models that look unhealthy (male or female) ... this would be preferable to govt action.
13
"... the Times fashion layouts ..."
Could you cite a particular example? The Times doesn't hire the models for fashion shows. See the photo credits here:
http://www.nytimes.com/spotlight/fashion-runway-slideshows
Could you cite a particular example? The Times doesn't hire the models for fashion shows. See the photo credits here:
http://www.nytimes.com/spotlight/fashion-runway-slideshows
2
The question that no one seems to ask is why we (and who "we" is matters) find skinny women attractive. It is evolutionary? If so, why did we evolve that preference? Is it cultural? Again, if so, why did culture move in that direction? Is the preference gender linked? Do men favor skinny women more than women do? Is it the other way around. Does gender matter?
These seem to me to be the fundamental questions that should be investigated.
These seem to me to be the fundamental questions that should be investigated.
4
The job of a clothing designer should be to make clothing that flatters the people who wear it. Instead, clothing designers, and especially those at the high-end, make clothing that only looks good on a particular type of body, and that body type is not one that most women have once they start menstruating. What ever happened to darts and other types of tailoring that allowed for an even flattered a woman with curves (and no, I'm not using that as a euphemism for fat)? Why are so many clothes made for women over 5' 8' when the average height of an American woman is 5' 4"?
27
I don't think you need to ban anything. I just think that these companies should be held accountable for ONLY using skinny models. It is, after all, a very damaging form of discrimination when you think about it.
3
Young people are very impressionable - and there's a valid point to not showing glamorous images of people smoking, for example. (It's not generally known, but many of the Marlboro Cowboys died of lung cancer, after spending their careers puffing away, photographed against a backdrop of idyllic country). Close to prom time, high school girls jeopardize their skins by patronizing tanning beds. The constant exposure to elegant but bone-thin models in ads cannot help but influence already insecure adolescents to take chances with their health and safety by trying fad diets, or trying unsafe appetite suppressants - like cigarettes. There's a point to not putting certain images out where they can do damage.
8
How 'bout if we change the bragging rights to BMI criteria ?
1
I've been reading the comments here and am having a really hard time understanding how obesity is somehow the opposite of ultra-skinny in this argument. The point is the unrealistic images being portrayed, and many people are asking for a diversity of body shapes, not super fat bodies taking the place of super thin. And to any of you who think that showing people the 'right' way to look somehow equates to everyone being shamed into losing weight, I'm baffled by your 'reasoning', for it's not reasoning or good practice, but instead fat-shaming, and in many cases misogyny, wrapped up in health-trolling. .
13
Instead of protecting women from being challenged to be thin, we should just tell them to instantly become more mature and accept themselves?
Sounds like 'Just say no.' That didn't work either!
Sounds like 'Just say no.' That didn't work either!
1
Yes, we should ban ads using skinny women. AND ban ads using women's bodies to sell things, period.
Yes, you can tell if someone is healthy from looking at a picture most of the time.
Eating disorders are an enormous problem in modern society. And ads featuring skinny women promote influence those with incipient eating disorders.
Your arguments are ridiculous and not even worth refuting.
Yes, you can tell if someone is healthy from looking at a picture most of the time.
Eating disorders are an enormous problem in modern society. And ads featuring skinny women promote influence those with incipient eating disorders.
Your arguments are ridiculous and not even worth refuting.
3
How would we know what's normal? When I was in high school, there was only one "fat girl." Now that's normal? Take a cross sample of girls who don't overeat and who exercise. There are many of them in the exclusive Dallas neighborhoods from wealthy families.
I'm 66, eat sparingly and well and have exercised my whole life. I'm 5'4" and 108lbs and a 26 inch waist. Am I anorexic? I don't think so. I think the rest of you are fat and unhealthy. And you may call me all the names you want because I will be the 90 year lady running circles around you.
Fat is the new normal????
I'm 66, eat sparingly and well and have exercised my whole life. I'm 5'4" and 108lbs and a 26 inch waist. Am I anorexic? I don't think so. I think the rest of you are fat and unhealthy. And you may call me all the names you want because I will be the 90 year lady running circles around you.
Fat is the new normal????
13
most ads would never past local news media and/or have gotten international coverage were they not banned or deemed unsuitable for their chosen demographic
1
Worse, it foments reverse discrimination (which I suppose is rationalized by Size Affirmative Action). Some women are naturally tall and thin; should they be made to feel bad about themselves because they're not zaftig?
It also gets confusing in an age when people scream Obesity Epidemic.
Here's an idea. How about we credit most women (at least) with the brains to put modeling in perspective and not be swayed by propaganda telling them how they're "supposed" to look? Slightly off-topic, but I was looking at the men's fashion slide shows with male models got up in creations you're not likely to see anywhere except a runway, trying to imagine many young men actually aspiring to look like that--unless they happen to do already.
It also gets confusing in an age when people scream Obesity Epidemic.
Here's an idea. How about we credit most women (at least) with the brains to put modeling in perspective and not be swayed by propaganda telling them how they're "supposed" to look? Slightly off-topic, but I was looking at the men's fashion slide shows with male models got up in creations you're not likely to see anywhere except a runway, trying to imagine many young men actually aspiring to look like that--unless they happen to do already.
6
"... the men's fashion slide shows with male models ..."
Glad you brought that up. Men's underwear packages body-shame men and boys who do not work out or carry a full package.
Glad you brought that up. Men's underwear packages body-shame men and boys who do not work out or carry a full package.
6
Should we have not banned cigarette ads or insisted on warnings on cigarette packs? Extreme thinness and obesity has dire health consequences that increase with time. Younger people in particular exhibit strong denial about consequences, particularly when it's not in their immediate future. Brain chemistry of anorexics is altered when body mass index is very low, and gives a false sense of euphoria. Extreme weight often leads to diabetes, etc. we have to educate our kids, while we sympathize with them and not shame them. Regarding thinness, so many teens are influenced by ads, and the barrage of these ads can lead to intractable illness and death.
Let's care about health first!
Let's care about health first!
2
Since there are more fat people along with ugly people of course skinny good looking models need to go. The fat person is never going to give up food and the ugly one can't change so what do we do? We ban thin and good looking models. End of story and problem solved.
4
Is the mayor "banning" ads or is he leading a move to set standards for ads purchased by the city of London to appear in public transit? Are their ads that would not be acceptable already? This article and most of the responses seem to assume that this is government censorship that declares what ads can be sold, when it seems to me it's a decision not to buy ads that might be unhealthy. Some ads--for cigarettes, for example--are not allowed on television. These kinds of decisions are made regularly by ALL purchasers who determine the content they carry on their walls, during their commercial breaks, etc. This isn't a ban; it's a guideline. This decision does not mean that ads depicting uber skinny women cannot be sold or purchased by other businesses.
4
The principal purpose of censorship is to make the censors feel virtuous. The supposedly hoped-for effect is negligible, while the precedent in terms of freedom of expression is not negligible.
6
The ads will stop when the focus groups determine they aren't effective.
17
I just wish everybody would let women alone. Why is it necessary to mention women's bodies and looks at all? Why is this article even in the NYT? Men and women of every age, ethnic background, religion and race feel perfectly justified in constantly commenting on women's looks. Maybe women could finally start to feel better about themselves if everyone would just leave them alone. We don't need everyone's advice about how we should look--regardless of what the intent is. There are no articles, no "news analysis", no symposiums, or "summit meetings", or medical journal articles -- nothing about men's bodies. It's always and only women, women, women. Just stop it. Let us alone to live as we like. Stop with the celebrity Instagrams, the People Magazine articles, the discussions of who's fat and who's thin and who's acceptable, --stop all of it. Women's bodies should not be a topic for conversation at all, ever, unless a specific woman brings it up herself. Let us and our bodies alone, please.
55
Several years ago I chanced upon a high-dollar fashion photo shoot at a street intersection in an up-scale residential neighborhood here in San Francisco. Ten stick-thin young females wearing white page boy wigs, white A-line dresses and white pumps were trying to ride totally white-painted balloon-tire bicycles in a circle around a director and camera crew. Rather bizarre, which, being a fashion shoot, was probably the intent. But what struck me was how utterly inept the models were at pedaling their bikes. Maybe two seemed capable of it; the rest struggled against the exertion, wobbling, unable to stay upright, one falling. It was excruciating to watch. Their arms and legs, mere twigs, weren’t up to it. Dismaying, disturbing, unforgettable.
10
Have you looked at the mannequins in store windows? They certain look quite thin. But go inside the store and look at the mannequins from the back. The clothes are often pulled tight and pinned to make them fit snuggly. These are small sized clothes to start with, perhaps size two.
It is important to grasp what is happening and make judgements to suit oneself. Anyone who looks can see that the mannequins are fake. But remember that on the subway one has a hard time looking away from the ads. They may be in one's face for 30 minutes or so. Some rather crude ads regarding mensuration have disappeared for the nY subways without further comment. Good riddance.
Must we be faced with just anything in order to be "free?"
It is important to grasp what is happening and make judgements to suit oneself. Anyone who looks can see that the mannequins are fake. But remember that on the subway one has a hard time looking away from the ads. They may be in one's face for 30 minutes or so. Some rather crude ads regarding mensuration have disappeared for the nY subways without further comment. Good riddance.
Must we be faced with just anything in order to be "free?"
6
The "fat-acceptance" gang is tryng to conflate the unhealthy and cadaverous models rightly targeted by French authorities with slim and perfectly healthy ones.
They also go on and on about the health dangers of anorexia, which is relatively rare, and say nothing about the worldwide epidemic of obesity.
Now, of course, they've changed their label to "body-positivity", but they're not the slightest bit "positive" about people who exercise discipline in order to keep their weight down. They justify this by saying that being slim is an "unobtainable" ideal -- instead of controlling their own food intake. Editor’s note: This comment has been anonymized in accordance with applicable law(s).
They also go on and on about the health dangers of anorexia, which is relatively rare, and say nothing about the worldwide epidemic of obesity.
Now, of course, they've changed their label to "body-positivity", but they're not the slightest bit "positive" about people who exercise discipline in order to keep their weight down. They justify this by saying that being slim is an "unobtainable" ideal -- instead of controlling their own food intake. Editor’s note: This comment has been anonymized in accordance with applicable law(s).
12
What needs to happen is regulating the strict body measurements enforced by modeling agencies. Modeling agencies impose regulations on model hip, waist, bust size and height. The required measurements for work, particularly runway models, mandates an unrealistic body type that models can only achieve through anorexia. Thus agencies resort to hiring teenage models as their bodies haven't yet fully developed. The body size requirements for models are abusive and need to stop.
13
Mayor Sadiq Khan ban on ads featuring "thin models"....Guess the slippery slope to "Sharia law" is inevitable after all!
9
I wish the Mayor could think of a garment to protect women from the Male Gaze and social expectations. I'm thinking of something providing full coverage head to toe, loose and flowing, in dark colors, maybe with only an eye or two showing. Only when covered in such a way will women truly be free.
4
Thin is subjective as is fat; context is the key. Maybe they should ban every image just to avoid confusion?
3
"Whose body image is it anyway? It should be ours."
That is not quite true. A peacock could say, "Whose decision is it to have feathers? It is mine and I am not going to have this silly, even if beautiful, tail hanging from my rear end." But the peacock wants to attract peahens and is willing to pay the price.
Women try to attract men and men try to attract women, and a lot of primping by women and muscle building and amassing money by men, comes from this desire to impress the opposite gender.
We do not live in a world as an atom, and nor do we belong to a gender which has no connection with the opposite gender. "Autonomy" is a mirage because even though we can do what we like, what we like is governed by our relations with others.
As Einstein once said, "We can choose to do what we like, but we cannot choose what we like."
That is not quite true. A peacock could say, "Whose decision is it to have feathers? It is mine and I am not going to have this silly, even if beautiful, tail hanging from my rear end." But the peacock wants to attract peahens and is willing to pay the price.
Women try to attract men and men try to attract women, and a lot of primping by women and muscle building and amassing money by men, comes from this desire to impress the opposite gender.
We do not live in a world as an atom, and nor do we belong to a gender which has no connection with the opposite gender. "Autonomy" is a mirage because even though we can do what we like, what we like is governed by our relations with others.
As Einstein once said, "We can choose to do what we like, but we cannot choose what we like."
6
You're absolutely mad if you think I'm going to buy a protein powder or anything for health and fitness if it's spokespersons are Ashley Graham or Paul Giamatti.
4
But you don't know Ashley or Paul do you? They may be fitter than that skinny model who smokes, does drugs or has a bulimic/anorexia disorder. Advertising clearly succeeded with duping you and millions of others who equate a thin body with a healthy one.
5
It's attitudes and actions like that of Mayor Sadik Khan's that caused Brexit. By the way, if we had a little more "fat shaming" in the U.S. we'd probably have a lot less diabetes, heart disease and knee replacements.
8
Why isn't the free market working? Women who don't look like Barbie (everyone) are eager to have a realistic body image presented in ads. How come no huge apparel brand uses a normal woman to advertise its clothing? It seems to me it would be a huge commercial success.
The models in the London's ads are not only skinny but around fifteen-sixteen years old. And the vast majority of the customers are much older! The model of beauty is out of touch with real life.
onourselvesandothers.com
The models in the London's ads are not only skinny but around fifteen-sixteen years old. And the vast majority of the customers are much older! The model of beauty is out of touch with real life.
onourselvesandothers.com
5
When I was a child growing up in a lower middle class family of four children in the 1950's, I recall very rarely seeing obese people. It was a time everybody looked pretty normal on the surface. The term body type was not in the language yet. But most importantly food was usually home made there was very little junk food in the grocery stores. My mother just by giving us three basic meals a day taught us good nutrition. What is missing today is the knowlege of good basic nutrition; how to nourish ones self. We are in an age of too much everything especially food. (I say this knowing this only applys to a certain section of the population who are not starving). And the food available in the grocery stores is hugely un healthy unless you only buy around the edges of the store; fresh produce, meat puoltry and fish. Almost everything in the middle is making america obese. Our new crisis caused by Genral Mills and the like. Its not tobacco anymore. Its the food industry who is killing us.
20
When I heard that this body-commission was the first order of business for the new Mayor of London I cringed. Seriously? Wasn't there anything more pressing in that big city? No need to rehash Ms. Friedman's arguments, she's right. Just show more 'different' diverse bodies, and this issue will go away.
7
The issue is that these skeletal creatures, in print and in other media, appear almost exclusively, and are treated as the ideal and the norm. Showing different, "normal" shaped bodies on occasion does not change this message.
2
What really was the allure of Twiggy & the advent of the skinny model?
Certainly not femininity in all its glory of fertile female secondary sex characteristics.
Perhaps the idea began as a way to hang clothes on humans who doubled as clothes hangers, so customers would be prepared for seeing rags on racks in stores.
For generations the sole goal of apparel marketing aims to achieve: Get women into stores to browse rags on racks & pay big bucks for fashion.
But fashion marketing is far more about selling myths than marketing design. Marketers look to create insecurity in order to manufacture demand.
To that end, impossible scenarios of Hampton-Dwelling aristocratic horse-country anglophiles were manufactured by the brand headed by the king of rag-trade mythologizers, Ralph Lifshitz from the Bronx (who changed his name to 'Lauren' to complete the manufactured mystique).
Calvin Klein used a blitz of billboards of 'endormoph' Kate Moss in her virtually pre-adolescent years to manufacture a Lolita image of girlhood that grown women were led to believe men wanted.
The sheer saturation that these campaigns used to market their impossible myths were intended to create mass emotional insecurity in order to manufacture demand & promote purchases to assuage the self-doubt which the marketing myths sought to create.
But therein lies the problem: Marketing is manipulative, brilliantly so. When the myth is unhealthy, like the Marlboro Man, those myth-makers need to be controlled.
Certainly not femininity in all its glory of fertile female secondary sex characteristics.
Perhaps the idea began as a way to hang clothes on humans who doubled as clothes hangers, so customers would be prepared for seeing rags on racks in stores.
For generations the sole goal of apparel marketing aims to achieve: Get women into stores to browse rags on racks & pay big bucks for fashion.
But fashion marketing is far more about selling myths than marketing design. Marketers look to create insecurity in order to manufacture demand.
To that end, impossible scenarios of Hampton-Dwelling aristocratic horse-country anglophiles were manufactured by the brand headed by the king of rag-trade mythologizers, Ralph Lifshitz from the Bronx (who changed his name to 'Lauren' to complete the manufactured mystique).
Calvin Klein used a blitz of billboards of 'endormoph' Kate Moss in her virtually pre-adolescent years to manufacture a Lolita image of girlhood that grown women were led to believe men wanted.
The sheer saturation that these campaigns used to market their impossible myths were intended to create mass emotional insecurity in order to manufacture demand & promote purchases to assuage the self-doubt which the marketing myths sought to create.
But therein lies the problem: Marketing is manipulative, brilliantly so. When the myth is unhealthy, like the Marlboro Man, those myth-makers need to be controlled.
6
As a survivor of anorexia and bulimia, I can say unequivocally these dis-eases
are far far deeper than seeing pictures of skinny models. Although cultural memes of skinny super models do feed into the pathology.
These are very serious psychological disorders that are life threatening.
Even if you end up with a life there is much physical damage that can persist for years or only show up later.
I am one of the lucky ones, my subconscious one day just seemed to awaken to the slow suicidal path of starvation.
My parents were absolutely unhelpful, but 40 some years ago anorexia and bulimia were barely recognized.
Again, let me repeat, these diseases are infinitely deeper then just seeing pictures of skinny models, although they do not help. My heart goes out to those, both male and female, who suffer this debilitating mental disorder and slow form of suicide.
Thank you.
are far far deeper than seeing pictures of skinny models. Although cultural memes of skinny super models do feed into the pathology.
These are very serious psychological disorders that are life threatening.
Even if you end up with a life there is much physical damage that can persist for years or only show up later.
I am one of the lucky ones, my subconscious one day just seemed to awaken to the slow suicidal path of starvation.
My parents were absolutely unhelpful, but 40 some years ago anorexia and bulimia were barely recognized.
Again, let me repeat, these diseases are infinitely deeper then just seeing pictures of skinny models, although they do not help. My heart goes out to those, both male and female, who suffer this debilitating mental disorder and slow form of suicide.
Thank you.
10
My daughter's best friend suffered from a very serious eating diorder caused by trying to lose weight to run faster in cross country. Had nothing to do with her looks-based self image. We have to be careful when commenting and coaching our children.
1
People have no problem with car ads that depict a perfect car on a perfect road with nary another car in sight for miles..no problem with perfect puppies & kittens selling pet food. No issue with the fact that the Burger King Whopper in the ad never looks anything like an actual Whopper received upon ordering. But God forbid people that sell clothes utilize the exact same marketing strategies? It makes no sense. Fashion models are selling clothing and accessories, not bodies. Pin-up girl images are for selling a "body". The problem isn't with the ads, it's with the narcissistic attitudes of humans. Why should a company that makes dresses be forced to put the dress on someone that doesn't make the DRESS look as good as another person merely to satiate a whiny consumer with a weak spirit who apparently cannot handle when everything is not catered to their specific desires? There is a point to having slender fashion models: to notice the clothing that is for sale instead of being distracted by the body wearing it. Additionally, there is nothing stopping people from simply not coveting brands if they don't like the way that brand promotes their wares. Funny how I never see that happen though.
13
On the contrary, advertisers use what they determine to be "sexy" bodies to create more interest in the clothing being sold. Because sex sells. If those companies didn't care about using sex to sell, their ads would feature clothing on hangers not people. It's the very fact that the dress is on someone "sexy" that makes consumers want the dress - after all it looks so gooooood on her.
And by the way, thanks so much for perfectly demonstrating female objectification with your non-argument. If women aren't the "object" being sold in an ad, say that same dress ad you mentioned, then why are they present at all unless to be seen as the "object" on which that dress is being displayed...
And by the way, thanks so much for perfectly demonstrating female objectification with your non-argument. If women aren't the "object" being sold in an ad, say that same dress ad you mentioned, then why are they present at all unless to be seen as the "object" on which that dress is being displayed...
5
Khan's proposal sounds like how sharia law starts.
8
Oh please, sharia law in it's infancy? You are aware the way many many christian sects already dress their women? Have you ever seen a habited nun?
2
If all we see are thin (and, and coincidentally, young) women, we think that is the normal build for all females. Some of these thin women (and girls) are naturally thin, but others starve themselves to be thin, even to the point of death.
In the past few decades with the influx of breast implants, we have forgotten what a woman's normal breast size is. (By normal, I mean what we are born with.) Ditto noses, chins, necks.
Many women also alter skin (which has imperfections such as blemishes and lines) to make it look "perfect" through makeup and surgery.. Women's hair color is altered by dye and female eyes are altered by make up to look larger than they actually are.
Our "body project" makes a lot of money for our economy! How far will we go?
In the past few decades with the influx of breast implants, we have forgotten what a woman's normal breast size is. (By normal, I mean what we are born with.) Ditto noses, chins, necks.
Many women also alter skin (which has imperfections such as blemishes and lines) to make it look "perfect" through makeup and surgery.. Women's hair color is altered by dye and female eyes are altered by make up to look larger than they actually are.
Our "body project" makes a lot of money for our economy! How far will we go?
14
Umm no. Walk down the street. All I see is fat, overweight, obese, and morbidly obese. What State do you live in???
5
How ignorant to assume that we make decisions without external influences: where did the author get the notion that women make autonomous decisions? The same media that promotes unnatural thinness. So, no, it's not our decision and may the next generation do without the anxiety models feel today.
8
We rattle on about positive role models for young people, but pay lip service to the negative impact that hyper sexual, uber thin images of barely pubescent models has on young women.
Enough.
Enough.
29
Inclusion is always better than exclusion. I understand that in Brasil, for instance, after having had some faintings, even deaths, by very thin models, it was decided to pay attention to anorexia nervosa and bulimia, induced by 'the powers to be' so a woman would even be considered for modelling. It led to excluding 'sick-appearing extra-thin women', in favor of 'naturally'-curved women, preferably of all sizes and weight as to mimic the population at large. After all, women are sought as models not only for beauty pageantry but to sell something. Hard to legislate however; if a women feels well, acts well, then let her be a model. If she looks sickly, faints a lot, well, there is your answer. How come men escape this judgement, all else being equal?
7
It's a litigious age, and has been for some decades now. One of the lessons offered by the so-called conservatives among us that is worth listening to (although so few non-conservatives and conservatives alike seem to be listening these days) is that culture, including what our bodies should look like, cannot be legislated. The relations between the law and what life means are a lot more complex than that.
One reason for the appeal to legislation as a solution to problems, of course, is the severe decline of those groups and organizations that would ideally stand between the outside world and help define the individual, with her or his body--the decline of the institutions of family, religion, voluntary group, school, political party, etc.--in short, what we call civil society. The outside world is largely dominated by the corporate and business worlds, which are happy to provide us with idealized images of bodies--idealized sex sells.
The conservative plaint is worth listening to and it goes hand in hand with the accusation that government has grown too big. The sad fact is that the "the government" is the only institution that can counter the power of the corporations and business. Both non-conservatives and conservatives need to listen. The conversation even bears upon what our bodies mean. I know, I know, all the screaming makes it hard to hear.
One reason for the appeal to legislation as a solution to problems, of course, is the severe decline of those groups and organizations that would ideally stand between the outside world and help define the individual, with her or his body--the decline of the institutions of family, religion, voluntary group, school, political party, etc.--in short, what we call civil society. The outside world is largely dominated by the corporate and business worlds, which are happy to provide us with idealized images of bodies--idealized sex sells.
The conservative plaint is worth listening to and it goes hand in hand with the accusation that government has grown too big. The sad fact is that the "the government" is the only institution that can counter the power of the corporations and business. Both non-conservatives and conservatives need to listen. The conversation even bears upon what our bodies mean. I know, I know, all the screaming makes it hard to hear.
3
Will the European Commission issue a regulation for the nations of the EU. And will the UK abide....?
Annyism.
Annyism.
3
I'm confounded by Friedman's arguments.
1. Banning something makes it more intriguing.
2. "To judge a body healthy or unhealthy is still to judge it."
Does banning rape or drunk-driving make them more intriguing? Should doctors not "judge" their patients as being healthy or unhealthy?
The author champions citizen activism yet questions Sadiq Khan, an elected official, and his choice to represent the voices of 70,000 constituents. Please stick to fashion reporting. I did not care for this editorial one bit.
1. Banning something makes it more intriguing.
2. "To judge a body healthy or unhealthy is still to judge it."
Does banning rape or drunk-driving make them more intriguing? Should doctors not "judge" their patients as being healthy or unhealthy?
The author champions citizen activism yet questions Sadiq Khan, an elected official, and his choice to represent the voices of 70,000 constituents. Please stick to fashion reporting. I did not care for this editorial one bit.
34
Great comment. Nailed it.
3
It's free speech. Period. Citizens United, on the other hand, has nothing to do with free speech. But this actually does, and this is a slippery slope.
5
I love Amy Schumer and Lora from,"Girls," but I think the pendulum is swinging the other way. We have an epidemic of obesity and diabetes in this country. To tell anyone, male or female, "You're perfect the way you are, " is to promote a self destructive lifestyle, and the path to an early grave. Moderation in all things, while difficult, should be our goal.
25
Exactly. Common sense.
3
At the same time that we are moving towards finally being comfortable with women in leadership positions, are we also saying that the new mark of accomplishment is being able to put on a bikini and post a selfie for the entire world? By the same token, are we really to the point that we can casually discuss 50% of the population as though they are so fragile, and gullible, that the sight of someone who has very little body fat can create shock waves in females everywhere? Should parents shield their children's eyes every time a thin women is shown on TV? Should parents hide images of the Williams' sisters, out of fear that they need to protect their children from an unhealthy desire to look healthy, or from a fear that their children would develop an obsession with tennis?
9
Eating disorders should be addressed. To ban pictures of skinny women in the hope that overweight women will not feel shame seems to me to be condoning overeating besides of course limiting freedom.
It is a well known fact that heavy people have health issues. Unhealthy people add tremendously to our national debt. Efforts should be made to educate people on this matter.
It is a well known fact that heavy people have health issues. Unhealthy people add tremendously to our national debt. Efforts should be made to educate people on this matter.
13
It is less well-known, but far more accurate, to say that people can be healthy in a wide range of sizes and weights. You can't tell by looking. What's more, heavy people--fat people--have already received the message that there is something wrong with them. It can be in the guise of health concerns but it is quite clear. The message comes across a thousand times a day. There seems to be no end to misinformation about what actions cause, or change, body size, and each purveyor believes their bit with a religious fervour, and promulgates it as though it were a moral imperative. If 'education' were the answer, there would be no problem.
3
Black women have been celebrating their bodies in every shape and size with no difficulty. In this country, it is white and Asian women who are suffering from the eating disorders. A white friend of mine keeps commenting on how her mother comments on her weight, the preference for thin women in society etc. I have no idea what she is talking about. In my community, men prefer average sized women. Women with hips and thighs. My mother, who is Nigerian, NEVER wanted any of us to be skinny just healthy. So yeah. Please categorize this problem. As Nikki Minaj says "I eat my meals."
13
Ok, but obese black women suffer from medical issues as well. And if you live in the west and visit Atlanta, you'll be struck that the percentage of obese people there is staggering.
15
Huh? Do you have any idea the rate of breast cancer, HBP and other obesity-related disorders among so-called "healthy-weight" Black women? These ladies are running up our health-care bills. You think they are healthy? Look in their grocery carts. I see maybe one out of ten that can fit in an airline seat. Stop being politically correct. These young Black women will be very sick or dead in 20 years. Let's be honest.
6
Kindly name an issue that censorship has solved. I'm an expert in pretty much nothing, but is it remotely possible that for an individual who is so troubled they essentially try to kill themselves because of they way an ad made them feel, perhaps the root cause of their problem goes way beyond that?
At one point in my life, I felt stressed and depressed and bought a very powerful sports car, thinking it would make me feel good. It was basically two seats and a huge engine, built solely for the purpose of extreme acceleration and advertised as something awesome and manly. I nearly killed myself in it. Perhaps it should have been banned from the market.
Faulty analogy? Perhaps, but go ahead, expend effort and money censoring ads. Will you also monitor the results? I doubt it, and doubt censorship would make a difference.
At one point in my life, I felt stressed and depressed and bought a very powerful sports car, thinking it would make me feel good. It was basically two seats and a huge engine, built solely for the purpose of extreme acceleration and advertised as something awesome and manly. I nearly killed myself in it. Perhaps it should have been banned from the market.
Faulty analogy? Perhaps, but go ahead, expend effort and money censoring ads. Will you also monitor the results? I doubt it, and doubt censorship would make a difference.
30
Child pornography?
1
I agree wholeheartedly with Ms. Friedman. Women come in ALL shapes and sizes, and if you're going to ban the thin, hot one (and I'm sorry, some women actually DO look like that -- take a trip to Brazil...), then you should also be curbing the images of women who teach girls that physical activity and good nutrition are things that won't enhance their lives or feelings of well-being.
2
I agree that some women do look like that, but you should also be aware that plastic surgery is rampant in Brazil, as they have an even greater emphasis on female beauty and sex than we do. It is known as the "world capital of plastic surgery." Don't be fooled.
3
While we're at it, let's also ban shampoo ads so bald people won't get shamed.
6
When I was a teen (long ago), my mom and I used to look through Vogue together, and use a trick to see whether we were liking the clothes or the model-- we'd cover the models' faces with our fingers. The beautiful faces tended to make the clothes look better than they were sometimes. So I say, let's ban beautiful faces from fashion pages. Well, they're kind of doing that now, aren't they, on runways.... Well, ban pretty faces in fashion mags because they make me feel bad about my own face. Wait, no! Ban models who are obviously younger than me! That's the world I want to live in. /s
2
Many decades ago I was 5'7" and weighed 100# in the era when beauty was in the image of Marilyn Monroe. My mother was 5'2" and wore a D bra in the flapper era (imagine trying to strap those misfits into invisibility). This article makes great sense to me.
We need not celebrate the exaggerated, but it would certainly be a good thing for fashion to include many sizes and shapes within the range of healthy - a fashionable melange that would allow every girl to see how she, too, is attractive, or at least can be with humanly possible effort.
This might not magically create acceptance of all shapes; but just possibly it could be a start toward accepting humans whose looks are not within the "norm" - who are obese, or lacking a limb, or scarred. If we were not seeking "perfection" in the current fashion, it might be easier to see everyone (including oneself!) as human beings, worthy of being acceptable on the basis of their humanity.
We need not celebrate the exaggerated, but it would certainly be a good thing for fashion to include many sizes and shapes within the range of healthy - a fashionable melange that would allow every girl to see how she, too, is attractive, or at least can be with humanly possible effort.
This might not magically create acceptance of all shapes; but just possibly it could be a start toward accepting humans whose looks are not within the "norm" - who are obese, or lacking a limb, or scarred. If we were not seeking "perfection" in the current fashion, it might be easier to see everyone (including oneself!) as human beings, worthy of being acceptable on the basis of their humanity.
3
It seems strange that the high fashion industry is being isolated as the sole cause of eating disorders. What about celebrity culture, which promotes not thinness but breast implants, botox, etc?
Growing up, I was very thin and often teased about it. Most celebrities had hourglass figures that I could never achieve. High fashion magazines like Vogue actually reassured me that I could be beautiful even with my boyish hips and flat chest.
I now realize that it would have been better had I not had to look for affirmations that I was pretty, and been taught to focus on my academic and athletic talents instead of how I looked. The problem isn't thin models. It's that we live in a culture that makes women's looks the prime measure of their value.
The advertising message that "if you buy X you will be beautiful/desirable" doesn't work on men because men don't have to care about their appearances as much. "Real" men's success is measured in other ways. Indeed, men who care "too much" about appearance are seen as "effeminate"-- too much like women.
Perhaps instead of demonizing models (itself a sexist move that divides good from bad bodies/women) we should give women strong role models and aspirations other than being pretty--rather than just redefinitions of what "beauty" looks like.
And if a a career path based solely on female appearance ceases to exist, maybe the models people are so comfortable vilifying will instead become doctors, scientists, and leaders.
Growing up, I was very thin and often teased about it. Most celebrities had hourglass figures that I could never achieve. High fashion magazines like Vogue actually reassured me that I could be beautiful even with my boyish hips and flat chest.
I now realize that it would have been better had I not had to look for affirmations that I was pretty, and been taught to focus on my academic and athletic talents instead of how I looked. The problem isn't thin models. It's that we live in a culture that makes women's looks the prime measure of their value.
The advertising message that "if you buy X you will be beautiful/desirable" doesn't work on men because men don't have to care about their appearances as much. "Real" men's success is measured in other ways. Indeed, men who care "too much" about appearance are seen as "effeminate"-- too much like women.
Perhaps instead of demonizing models (itself a sexist move that divides good from bad bodies/women) we should give women strong role models and aspirations other than being pretty--rather than just redefinitions of what "beauty" looks like.
And if a a career path based solely on female appearance ceases to exist, maybe the models people are so comfortable vilifying will instead become doctors, scientists, and leaders.
4
Maybe there would be less fuss about the size of models if they looked healthy, fit, and happy. Sullen-looking models with sagging shoulders and hollow eyes do nothing for the clothes and accessories their employers are trying to sell. I really don't understand why anyone would use them.
7
Young girls are sandwiched between media and their piers. As a mom of a little girl it disturbs me a lot to hear girls as young as 7 talking about "fat", as a bad word. Parents have to work against this to help their daughters (and sons) have positive self-image and healthy habits. I had eating disorders as a young woman due to a variety of factors (not so much the media, I think) and have had to be vigilant on my weight my whole life due to thyroid problems. At home I put special emphasis in the way I speak about food never using anything that sounds like "food that makes you fat". We speak in terms of healthy and unhealthy. Even if I am on a diet, I never say "I am dieting" and I never point out the parts of my body that I don't like . And about treats and sweets, we talk in terms of a treat here and there is fine but if you eat treats everyday, all the time, it becomes unhealthy. So far, so good at home, not a perfect,expert plan but surely something that works right now and I can modify as she grows up. For now, just working on a foundation of healthy eating (very Michael Pollan style), no bad self-talk, and good communication amongst us.
3
My healthy, athletic daughter sees photoshopped billboards and feels bad about herself, and then feels bad about feeling bad about herself. At 15, she can discuss this but intellectualism, with conversations that include friends and a loving father don't create an emotional reality that makes her first instinct any different. Most g u pls are not reading dialects, their enduring the negotiations of self, as are boys. These ads create pressure to ignore the girls you like to go for the hottie. The ban should stay. And yes, including teen girls, ideally trans, gay, of color and from varied income levels on the committee to consider what a health person looks like is a great idea. Chat with the model James again before you dismiss this welcome idea.
3
I disagree and find these arguments unconvincing. Photos of impossibly thin models do a lot of damage to young girls. I have a 17 year old daughter and also remember these types of ads when I was a young girl.
5
I've been fat, and I've been thin. I've been obese, and also unhealthily thin. (For the past 35+ years at least, I've maintained just right.) Some women are naturally thin, some zaftig.
What I'm going to say now may get my comment tossed, but ...
The elephant in the room is that the standards of beauty for modeling clothes, and the designing of clothes for these bodies, has been determined for several decades by men who do not value the female body or find it beautiful.
Look at male models, Although they rerpresent an uncanny standard of handsomeness (usually with androgynously pretty Ken-doll faces), they emphasise the maleness. Then look at female bodies. The femaleness is minimised, often to the point where they're stick figures, or at best preteen boys.
Admittedly 'fashion' has always morphed and abused the female body. (And women buy into it!) In the Victorian era some women actually had a couple of ribs removed to accommodate the wasp-waist corset. Stiletto heels could easily have been invented by the Inquisition; the Chinese did away with foot-binding, but Manolo Blahnik et al. keep up the tradition of crippling. (And who really loves these extreme fashions? Drag queens carrying this caricature of 'femininity' to the Nth.)
The super-skinny model craze began in the Sixties. No coincidence it coincided with the start of Women's Liberation.
I hate to bring this up at all, much less on Pride Weekend. But my brothers, you have some work to do in this department.
What I'm going to say now may get my comment tossed, but ...
The elephant in the room is that the standards of beauty for modeling clothes, and the designing of clothes for these bodies, has been determined for several decades by men who do not value the female body or find it beautiful.
Look at male models, Although they rerpresent an uncanny standard of handsomeness (usually with androgynously pretty Ken-doll faces), they emphasise the maleness. Then look at female bodies. The femaleness is minimised, often to the point where they're stick figures, or at best preteen boys.
Admittedly 'fashion' has always morphed and abused the female body. (And women buy into it!) In the Victorian era some women actually had a couple of ribs removed to accommodate the wasp-waist corset. Stiletto heels could easily have been invented by the Inquisition; the Chinese did away with foot-binding, but Manolo Blahnik et al. keep up the tradition of crippling. (And who really loves these extreme fashions? Drag queens carrying this caricature of 'femininity' to the Nth.)
The super-skinny model craze began in the Sixties. No coincidence it coincided with the start of Women's Liberation.
I hate to bring this up at all, much less on Pride Weekend. But my brothers, you have some work to do in this department.
11
"to judge a body healthy or unhealthy is still to judge it." Exactly. What constitutes a "healthy body" anyway. Would Mr. Kahn ban bodies that are disfigured from disease too? Or disfigured from accidents or combat? The problem was always the privileging of one kind of body over another. All kinds of bodies should be represented, including skinny ones.
2
Someone could publish a book showing bodies of different ages and sexes that medical experts think have the optimal amount of fat and muscles. I recently saw a woman age 60. I knew her as a lifelong dieter, and don't believe she purges, but when I saw her I thought she looked too thin to be healthy and have strong bones. I'd like to see the recommended bodies of older people not just models in their 20s. And what does a normal, healthy 9 year old boy's body look like?
4
i also totally disagree with this article's hypothesis. the modeling industry is rife with eating disorders and drug use b/c of the expectation that the model must be thin. just as most people wouldn't want a morbidly obese role model for young girls and women, neither would they want a severely underweight one either. i have seen the picture of the model that was deemed unhealthily thin, and i would agree that she did not look healthy or attractive. how about we just stop using women's bodies to advertise products (clothes, make up, liquor, etc.), and just advertise the product itself.
4
Young girls and women are absolutely influenced by the photos and images they see. This writer seems to e justifying an industry that she covers. The fashion industry is a billion dollars + industry. Part of the illusion they spin is also sexual in nature. Pick up any fashion magazine and if you look at the photographs you will see this element. They use young girls for this reason. Look at Oprah's magazine, OWN, and you will not see any women who have Oprah's body.
3
Why didn't the writer touch on where these skinny skeletal models came from compared to the curvy models of the nineties? It came about with the collusion of mostly gay designers, photographers and powerful editors who wanted hangers for their schmattes. They lost there way on what a healthy girl looks like. There is one woman in fashion who could change this with one issue that she helms!
9
HOGWASH!
So much of out culture is molded by media. Cars are promoted by depicting them as shiny trophies of speed and wealth )with a touch of macho will give kudos to Suburu for avoiding this and using love). Alcohol is beautified. Just about everything else is sex, with exceptions to Chase who uses a daddy in fairy costume with scary blue eye shadow and Charmin which has a couple of middle-school jokes about wearing underwear for two days.
If models looked like real women, our culture would learn to appreciate that women are people and not hangars or eye candy.
So much of out culture is molded by media. Cars are promoted by depicting them as shiny trophies of speed and wealth )with a touch of macho will give kudos to Suburu for avoiding this and using love). Alcohol is beautified. Just about everything else is sex, with exceptions to Chase who uses a daddy in fairy costume with scary blue eye shadow and Charmin which has a couple of middle-school jokes about wearing underwear for two days.
If models looked like real women, our culture would learn to appreciate that women are people and not hangars or eye candy.
9
Good for Sadiq Khan's new policy in London. The fashion industry will always push incessantly to use scarily thin young teenage models. It's their norm, and it doesn't represent any kind of body diversity. It also shows their contempt for actual women. It's no surprise many fashion houses have ongoing financial problems; if you make clothing that ordinary women are unable to wear and advertise it on skinny tweens, of course most women will not buy your garments.
2
Obesity is a world-wide health problem. Anything that encourages people to lose weight might be a good thing. The woman in the yellow bikini looked to have a BMI in the normal range. Perhaps ads (showing both men and women) should include the BMI's of the people depicted, just as food packages list the calories -or is that "fat-shaming" too?
8
Perhaps not a ban on certain images, but a requirement for diversity of images?
The problem is the incessant presentation of airbrushed, photo shopped images of impossibly beautiful and thin women in absurd poses wearing thousands of dollars worth of clothing.
And most television series also have extraordinarily thin women in the lead roles.
"Girls" is an exception, and there should be more like it.
It is fine to ask for us to make our 'own decisions' about role models....but decision implies some differences in the selection offered to choose from.
The problem is the incessant presentation of airbrushed, photo shopped images of impossibly beautiful and thin women in absurd poses wearing thousands of dollars worth of clothing.
And most television series also have extraordinarily thin women in the lead roles.
"Girls" is an exception, and there should be more like it.
It is fine to ask for us to make our 'own decisions' about role models....but decision implies some differences in the selection offered to choose from.
28
I love Girls, and I love Lena. But she needs to eat better and exercise. Her body is disgusting. Flab everywhere. That's not healthy in my book.
5
I'd like to speak up for the skinnies here. All my life I've been thin without trying -- I'm not anorexic -- i eat constantly -- and I relate to the skinny flat chested models. So have a variety of body types, but please don't eliminate the models who look like me.
26
78.8 percent Hispanics are overweight or obese.
76.7 percent blacks are overweight or obese.
66.7 percent whites are overweight or obese.
Overwhelming majority of adults are overweight or obese and eating to their early graves.
If all of the social media is of any indication, women have stopped caring about their weight and have embraced the obese models as their icons. If anything, we NEED images of thin people to be displayed everywhere as a constant reminder for people to stop eating so much.
76.7 percent blacks are overweight or obese.
66.7 percent whites are overweight or obese.
Overwhelming majority of adults are overweight or obese and eating to their early graves.
If all of the social media is of any indication, women have stopped caring about their weight and have embraced the obese models as their icons. If anything, we NEED images of thin people to be displayed everywhere as a constant reminder for people to stop eating so much.
20
Are you kidding? Obviously, your 'reasoning' has had zero impact on obesity in America because since the 60's (and probably earlier) women have been bombarded by unrealistic images perpetuated by the media.
4
The central issue is women's bodies. Whether they are svelte, slim, overweight, starved or any of the endless combinations they can be (just like men's bodies), the critical point is that they are always the point, and therefore fundamentally different from men's bodies. The women who protest overly slime representations of women as model's and decide that what needs to be celebrated are their different (and overweight bodies) still can't get away from the body. Women are bodies. Any idealistic attempt to somehow pretend that women's bodies do not matter, is a vain attempt. And since society is so invested in women's bodies, women's bodies can never truly be theirs. They have always been, and always be commented upon by society.
8
BMI does not lie. I don't want my six year old daughter seeing images of starving women on billboards. If a woman has an unhealthy BMI, that's not a judgment, that's a medical fact. People who are mentally ill with anorexia and physically unhealthy with low BMIs should not be on billboards because it distorts a child's view of what is normal and healthy.
6
3
Ms. Friedman misses the point (or perhaps as a fashion critic purposely ignores the point) of fashion advertising. Self hatred is not an unintended consequence of fashion advertising--it is the intended consequence.
Advertising is not some haphazard process; highly intelligent, highly paid professionals think about every aspect of each ad, working hard to reach into our subconscious and create desire for something we don't need. Tragically, fashion and cosmetic advertising sell their products by making women and girls feel bad about themselves and creating the hope that, with this purchase, they will become beautiful. The constant bombardment of ads which are DESIGNED to make young girls fell ugly, even disgusting, works as it is intended to work--young women hate their bodies and go to extremes to change it.
The formula works, and advertisers are not going to change it voluntarily. "Demands" by women are not going to change it so long as it continues to move merchandise. You might as well expect tobacco companies to respond to demands for information about the ill effects of smoking. There is a role for government in protecting children and young adults from toxic advertising, be it tobacco, alcohol or diet pills.
None of us can escape from the suffocating presence of advertising--we are bombarded with these toxic images wherever we go. Only a ban on such advertising can protect us and our daughters.
Advertising is not some haphazard process; highly intelligent, highly paid professionals think about every aspect of each ad, working hard to reach into our subconscious and create desire for something we don't need. Tragically, fashion and cosmetic advertising sell their products by making women and girls feel bad about themselves and creating the hope that, with this purchase, they will become beautiful. The constant bombardment of ads which are DESIGNED to make young girls fell ugly, even disgusting, works as it is intended to work--young women hate their bodies and go to extremes to change it.
The formula works, and advertisers are not going to change it voluntarily. "Demands" by women are not going to change it so long as it continues to move merchandise. You might as well expect tobacco companies to respond to demands for information about the ill effects of smoking. There is a role for government in protecting children and young adults from toxic advertising, be it tobacco, alcohol or diet pills.
None of us can escape from the suffocating presence of advertising--we are bombarded with these toxic images wherever we go. Only a ban on such advertising can protect us and our daughters.
18
Vanessa Friedman fails in her obfuscated multi-image argument. No string of expert quotes and smoke and mirrors prose can hide her goal to keep the ultra-thin waif-like body image alive. She struggles so hard to maintain the egalitarian high ground by confusing us about what is "healthy," but let's her real intentions slip with the line, "the conversation is moving from fat-shaming to fat-shamer-shaming," as if she's discovered a new form of bigotry! Shouldn't we chastise fat-shamers the same way we denounce racists or bigots of any kind? Hopefully, this editorial won't slow progress against stereotypical depictions of women in media.
26
Specious nonsense.
What do you think creates more harm to real-life teenage girls in a direct, concrete way:
(1) The continued barrage of anorexic-looking women in advertising & fashion mags (it's immaterial whether they look anorexic bc of Photoshop, actual anorexia, heroin drug abuse, an ability to starve themselves out of career devotion, or outlier genes), or
(2) some abstract ideal that no one (aside from each viewer of an image, inside his or her own head) should ever judge women's bodies?
As if it were even *possible* for society's appointed & self-appointed arbiters to withhold judgment. Even if we got rid of every last beauty pageant, Disney movie & TV show, doll (especially Barbie and other "fashion" dolls, but all dolls are idealized to some extent), reality-TV showbiz competition, and other societally imposed standard of beauty, we'd only leave a vacuum for internet trolls to fill.
But we all learned in school to look at the writer of any argument, & to examine whether the writer's livelihood, industry ties, political affiliations or other life choices might create bias.
And what do we find here? Why, it seems our writer, Vanessa Friedman, is the chief fashion critic for the NYT. Iow, she's part of the fashion industry. Of course she'd be biased in favor of continuing the fashion industry's age-old practice of using anorexic-looking models, real-life girls be damned.
Industry bias. There's the explanation for this essay's tortured reasoning.
What do you think creates more harm to real-life teenage girls in a direct, concrete way:
(1) The continued barrage of anorexic-looking women in advertising & fashion mags (it's immaterial whether they look anorexic bc of Photoshop, actual anorexia, heroin drug abuse, an ability to starve themselves out of career devotion, or outlier genes), or
(2) some abstract ideal that no one (aside from each viewer of an image, inside his or her own head) should ever judge women's bodies?
As if it were even *possible* for society's appointed & self-appointed arbiters to withhold judgment. Even if we got rid of every last beauty pageant, Disney movie & TV show, doll (especially Barbie and other "fashion" dolls, but all dolls are idealized to some extent), reality-TV showbiz competition, and other societally imposed standard of beauty, we'd only leave a vacuum for internet trolls to fill.
But we all learned in school to look at the writer of any argument, & to examine whether the writer's livelihood, industry ties, political affiliations or other life choices might create bias.
And what do we find here? Why, it seems our writer, Vanessa Friedman, is the chief fashion critic for the NYT. Iow, she's part of the fashion industry. Of course she'd be biased in favor of continuing the fashion industry's age-old practice of using anorexic-looking models, real-life girls be damned.
Industry bias. There's the explanation for this essay's tortured reasoning.
5
Back when I was a young thing, I was very thin. I remember that people had o problem coming up to me and commenting on my size and asking me if I ate. Often the people making the comments were plus-sized. If I had approached a plus-sized woman and made a comment on her eating habits, it would have been considered the height of rudeness. But it seems to be okay to call thin women 'anorexic' and 'unhealthy'.
This constant obsession with weight is definitely a first-world problem. I was in Cuba a few years ago, staying in a hotel in Havana. One morning, while I was having breakfast in the dining room overlooking the pool, a very large woman came to take a swim. I noticed the wait staff gathered at a window, whispering to each other. My Spanish is very poor, but it was clear that they found this woman very interesting. I realized that in a country like Cuba, where food is often in short supply, people are too busy trying to feed their families to worry if the jeans they're wearing make them look fat.
This constant obsession with weight is definitely a first-world problem. I was in Cuba a few years ago, staying in a hotel in Havana. One morning, while I was having breakfast in the dining room overlooking the pool, a very large woman came to take a swim. I noticed the wait staff gathered at a window, whispering to each other. My Spanish is very poor, but it was clear that they found this woman very interesting. I realized that in a country like Cuba, where food is often in short supply, people are too busy trying to feed their families to worry if the jeans they're wearing make them look fat.
2
"... a policy that would ban ads on public transport that might cause ..."
That should have ended with "... that might cause COMPLAINTS." To read the reporting on this subject one would think that there were no other ads that provoked complaints. What people should be complaining about is ALL advertising on public transport, so here is a proposal.
A Google images search for "Are you beach body ready?" finds dozens of parodies of the ad. That suggests an alternative solution to censorship. For each day that a sponsored ad is displayed, a parody ad is also displayed. Artists could submit parody ads that would be displayed next to the sponsored ad. If too many artists compete, they could be selected at random for each day. All ads, both sponsored and parody, would be required to display a solicitation for complaints, with a web address. All complaints would be posted to a web site.
That should have ended with "... that might cause COMPLAINTS." To read the reporting on this subject one would think that there were no other ads that provoked complaints. What people should be complaining about is ALL advertising on public transport, so here is a proposal.
A Google images search for "Are you beach body ready?" finds dozens of parodies of the ad. That suggests an alternative solution to censorship. For each day that a sponsored ad is displayed, a parody ad is also displayed. Artists could submit parody ads that would be displayed next to the sponsored ad. If too many artists compete, they could be selected at random for each day. All ads, both sponsored and parody, would be required to display a solicitation for complaints, with a web address. All complaints would be posted to a web site.
Banning skinny women in bikinis, what's next Sharia law?
if you look to the right the advertisement on the web page shows a number of skinny as a rail models showing dresses. Fascinating.
1
In the end, I think Photoshop needs to be required learning in schools. Until people realize that what they're looking at isn't a documentary record of a rare biological specimen, but is a work of art constructed by a team of professionals, they're going to have unrealistic expectations.
To bring that work of art into the world required finding a genetic anomaly to begin with and then the collaboration of trainers, dietitians, surgeons, dermatologists, cosmetologists, tailors, lighting technicians, professional photographers, location scouts, digital media artists, professional printers and some good luck.
I think the problem isn't just needing to teach people that not everyone needs to look like the picture on the wall, I think it's needing to teach them that /nobody/ does. Not even the person who's face shows a passing resemblance to the one in the photo.
To bring that work of art into the world required finding a genetic anomaly to begin with and then the collaboration of trainers, dietitians, surgeons, dermatologists, cosmetologists, tailors, lighting technicians, professional photographers, location scouts, digital media artists, professional printers and some good luck.
I think the problem isn't just needing to teach people that not everyone needs to look like the picture on the wall, I think it's needing to teach them that /nobody/ does. Not even the person who's face shows a passing resemblance to the one in the photo.
4
Totally agree. Banning ads because a woman looks a certain way is sexist, whether she's deemed "too thin" or too fat.
2
"Unhealthily thin" is one thing, but the woman in the diet pill ad was the kind of person who works out a lot, presumably eats well and takes great care of their body. As a result, she had a body that a lot of women would love to have. Why should that image be outlawed? (It would be different if they were banning the product rather than the image.)
If this is about telling people that they shouldn't feel bad about sitting on a sofa with a liter of coke in one hand and a Big Mac in the other and never exercising, then the Mayor of London has a strange set of priorities.
It's not okay to be fat. It kills you. Exercise is good and there is nothing wrong with aspiring to look like the woman in that ad, or any other human being who looks great.
If this is about telling people that they shouldn't feel bad about sitting on a sofa with a liter of coke in one hand and a Big Mac in the other and never exercising, then the Mayor of London has a strange set of priorities.
It's not okay to be fat. It kills you. Exercise is good and there is nothing wrong with aspiring to look like the woman in that ad, or any other human being who looks great.
4
While some of these arguments may prove true, the concern over the "beach body" advertisements was not the perpetuation of an "unhealthy" body image, but rather the message portrayed. Plastered in huge letters over the tube system were posters telling viewers that diet pills were a good, nay necessary, means to feel comfortable with their own body. In a public transport system used by people of all ages, this was not a safe message to be displaying. It is not about hiding pictures of a particular body type - the image itself is not the main problem in this case.
3
I wonder why the beauty ideal for women is a half starved, weak looking, barely pubescent elf.
Sad. :(
Sad. :(
4
It isn't productive to body shame anyone. How a woman's body appears is based on multiple factors not related to food consumption. However, using women as models with dangerously low BMIs is a threat to public health, the danger in which the author concedes in her article. While ideally we would live in a post-judgment world where every body shape was used in advertising, her argument would have merit. However, this is not the case and the regulations will hopefully protect not just the public, but the models some of whom are inflicting permanent damage to their bodies to work in the industry.
2
What happens when advertising of extremely thin models are banned? Revenue drops
1
How about a healthy attitude towards self? I lived in Thailand where I saw few overweight women (and men). What brought on the weight problem was food; the Thais who didn't eat McDonalds, KFC or Burger King but ate rice, fish, pork, chicken and vegetables were well rounded, even curvy. When I returned to the United States I was disgusted and shocked at the number of obese women (and men) walking the streets. We are a nation of porkers or we are among the few who eat healthy and exercise. I'm not into jogging or weight lifting, merely moderate exercise. My blood pressure is usually 125/80. My heart is strong and so are my lungs. I only suffer from arthritis due to my own neglect. My advice: be weight conscience.
3
I have another issue--I would very much like to see woman over fifty model clothes in all media. I guess acknowledging we age and still want to be fashionable is the last frontier for fashion photography. Older male models would be nice too.
41
one of the problem not addressed was the usage (if I may) of these women in ads which most of the time are quite sexist and/or uncalled for ie: coffee , cars, anything and everything ads..not only do we have to have perfect body (according to social standards) but we are it seems in various stage of undress while eating a yogurt or drinking tea....
3
This article is shallow and meaningless. It does not explain or inform. Same rehashed stories with a few popular named thrown around. We want solutions.
6
The purpose of advertising is to sell a product - not to teach us who we are or how to live.
That is what parenting is for.
It is a parent's job to help their daughters (and sons) develop self-esteem separate from outside factors so that when they are into the world, they will be strong and self-assured, able to weather whatever life throws their way - the Instagram feeds of the "popular girls" at school, unrequited crushes, mean bosses, catty coworkers, the myriad of self-esteem-challenging situations life brings.
Rather than try to turn advertising into surrogate parents, maybe we should try to teach our kids not to look to fashion magazines for their self-worth.
That is what parenting is for.
It is a parent's job to help their daughters (and sons) develop self-esteem separate from outside factors so that when they are into the world, they will be strong and self-assured, able to weather whatever life throws their way - the Instagram feeds of the "popular girls" at school, unrequited crushes, mean bosses, catty coworkers, the myriad of self-esteem-challenging situations life brings.
Rather than try to turn advertising into surrogate parents, maybe we should try to teach our kids not to look to fashion magazines for their self-worth.
8
I read this article and came away convinced that banning ads with anorexic models is a good idea. I know that's not what the author intended -- but that was the effect -- on me, anyway. The author concludes, "Whose body image is it anyway? It should be ours." I agree. The body image projected by profit-making machines -- like the image in the Gucci ad -- is not "ours". It is an image foisted on naive young women to extract money from them. The Gucci ad -- to borrow language used to judge pornography -- has "no redeeming social value." It has value only to the owners of Gucci.
82
Rather than banning 'skinny models', expand the horizons to include all size models together.
32
The Dove soap commercials were an example of using larger women. I didn't find them to be "gimmicky" or pretentious, and I liked the fact that Dove chose a different route to promote their soap.
I was left with the impression that these models were happy and confident with their body sizes. I also admire women who don't "fit the mild", and wear those elastic Lululemon tights. They may not look great but it's their confidence in who they are and how they are that I admire.
I was left with the impression that these models were happy and confident with their body sizes. I also admire women who don't "fit the mild", and wear those elastic Lululemon tights. They may not look great but it's their confidence in who they are and how they are that I admire.
1
Yes, I agree, ban them all; all sizes!
I am a 62 year old woman. I haven't struggled with anorexia since about 1977, but I can state that, for me, at lest, the skinny fashion models were a large part of the problem I still clearly remember looking at pictures of Twiggy in Seventeen magazine and believing, as only an impressionable & insecure 13 year old can (and what 13 year old girl isn't insecure & impressionable!) - that I was supposed to look like Twiggy, to be acceptable.
So, yes, I do think that these ridiculously thin, almost unattainable body images are bad for young girls.
So, yes, I do think that these ridiculously thin, almost unattainable body images are bad for young girls.
110
So now London wants to ban ads on public transport that might....operative word might... cause women to feel pressured “into unrealistic expectations surrounding their bodies. What's next ....fines and jail time for those who violate the ban? Perhaps we should just ban all ads of people who are are athletic and fit because God forbid anyone ever feel uncomfortable about being out of shape. Lets call this what it is: yet another attempt by social justice warriors to further their fascist agenda. Simply put they intend to ban all images, words, and ideas that they don't approve of. The 1st amendments, freedom of speech??? That's a joke to them. Their goal is to deprive anyone with contrary views of their most fundamental civil liberties. Dissent is not an option in their warped world.
2
The author of this article totally misses the point of what was being put forward. It's not about the body image being displayed it's about the messaging accompanying the ad. It's about not telling people (mostly woman and girls) about what their body should be and more about the fact that how your body looks dictates what you may do with it i.e. go to the beach. How your body looks shouldn't dictate how you use it whether you're thin, fat, or anywhere else along the spectrum.
5
While images of extremely thin women do not cause eating disorders alone, they can be a major contributing factor. Although "being exposed to all body types" is a good idea in theory, in practice it isn't quite so simple. Yes, a women can be extremely thin and not have an eating disorder, but that doesn't mean she's 'healthy'. On the other end of the spectrum, it's not necessarily a great idea to promote excessively large sizes either (not because they're inherently 'bad', but they're pretty unhealthy to aim for).
Younger girls especially can be heavily influenced by the images they see. Teenagers might be able to say "wow that's photoshopped" but a younger girl sees an image of a gorgeous model and thinks "wow I want to be like her someday".
Exposure to healthily sized bodies is a positive step; cast women in fashion campaigns that are healthy, and of many sizes, but overly thin shouldn't be one of them. Do this not only for the people who see the photos, but also for the people who are in them. The modeling industry can be toxic, especially in regards to desired weights for models. Rarely are the stick-thin models on covers at a weight that's healthy for their body, and it's naive to assume that they don't suffer too.
Younger girls especially can be heavily influenced by the images they see. Teenagers might be able to say "wow that's photoshopped" but a younger girl sees an image of a gorgeous model and thinks "wow I want to be like her someday".
Exposure to healthily sized bodies is a positive step; cast women in fashion campaigns that are healthy, and of many sizes, but overly thin shouldn't be one of them. Do this not only for the people who see the photos, but also for the people who are in them. The modeling industry can be toxic, especially in regards to desired weights for models. Rarely are the stick-thin models on covers at a weight that's healthy for their body, and it's naive to assume that they don't suffer too.
2
I am going to tread on thin ice here and risk getting incredibly flamed, but that notwithstanding, I have to say that with 65% of Americans either overweight or obese, we have bigger problems than a few skinny models. Body acceptance is a good thing. The trend of moving from thin women in advertising to overweight women, as I've seen more and more of, is not *necessarily* a good thing. We need to get to the place where people are not afraid to state that being overweight is a major health issue, the consequences of which are high blood pressure, gallbladder disease, osteoarthritis, liver, breast and colon cancer, stroke, coronary heart disease, depression, type 2 diabetes, to name a few. These are facts. It is NOT fat shaming to inform people that being overweight brings on disease. Calling people 'fat shamers' is a way to shut them up from saying what is true. What is true is the sugar industry, which relies heavily on taxpayers for subsidies, so they can reap sky-high profits, sickens our nation and leaves us paying the bill.
Models are not your average person. Their job is to sell clothing. Unfortunately, clothes DO drape better over a thin frame. Models should NOT have to be anorexic to do their job, and designers need to be responsible. Real women need to focus more on health than fashion. Having a healthy body, not too thin, not too fat, is what's attractive. More women, and men, need to internalize the correlation between strong body, strong mind, happy life.
Models are not your average person. Their job is to sell clothing. Unfortunately, clothes DO drape better over a thin frame. Models should NOT have to be anorexic to do their job, and designers need to be responsible. Real women need to focus more on health than fashion. Having a healthy body, not too thin, not too fat, is what's attractive. More women, and men, need to internalize the correlation between strong body, strong mind, happy life.
6
The only thing that makes most of the frequently silly fashion coverage in the NYT palatable is that it is accompanied by so much advertising which, I hope, helps the NYT to continue to perform its mission in areas like news and culture that are actually important. All those thousand-dollar sneakers and so little time time and space.
2
Advertisements are illusions carefully designed to subvert good sense and replace it with an overwhelming desire to acquire unnecessary objects at excessive cost.
Frankly the last thing I want is an intelligent, socially alert advertisement. Keep them dumb and obvious, and we'll all be better off for it.
Frankly the last thing I want is an intelligent, socially alert advertisement. Keep them dumb and obvious, and we'll all be better off for it.
Personally, i do not think most high fashion models are that attractive. Models selling something other than clothing tend to be rather better looking, if equally atypical. As a former gym rat who's weight has varied a good fifty pounds as an adult, I found I could have a bad body image over a large range of weights.
1
Regarding images in print advertising, Ms. Friedman says,
> You can't tell from the outside.
That's precisely the point, except Ms. Friedman has it backwards.
Ms. Friedman suggests that because images are deceptive, advertising images might as easily conceal an inner health rather than an inner eating disorder. She makes no attempt to assess the relative likelihood of these two utterly different possibilities.
Apparently the Times is now prepared to publish articles under the label "News Analysis" which contain approximately zero analysis, and even less news.
> You can't tell from the outside.
That's precisely the point, except Ms. Friedman has it backwards.
Ms. Friedman suggests that because images are deceptive, advertising images might as easily conceal an inner health rather than an inner eating disorder. She makes no attempt to assess the relative likelihood of these two utterly different possibilities.
Apparently the Times is now prepared to publish articles under the label "News Analysis" which contain approximately zero analysis, and even less news.
1
Thank you for writing this article! I also find it a bit insulting that young women should be "protected" from images of certain body types. Having men decide yet again when/where/how women's bodies should be viewed doesn't sit well with me, even with the best intentions. It's easy to get creative with advertising (which is surely what will happen--have a look at the MTA) but it's hard to stomach a law that dictates which representations of female bodies are okay to look at.
1
Ho hum. One set of liberals sees an obvious problem in our society and tries to correct it. Another set of liberals calls out the first set. Should we do something about the profiteering purveyors of absurdly unrealistic and unhealthy images of women? No, let's do something about the people trying to do something about them.
It's not that I don't see the author's point. It's just that I always wait wearily for this point to be made. Fine. Let's put the despicable ads up again. And the beat goes on.
It's not that I don't see the author's point. It's just that I always wait wearily for this point to be made. Fine. Let's put the despicable ads up again. And the beat goes on.
1
There are eating disorders in both directions. I agree a cookie-cutter skinny modeling image is sort of ridiculous. Different natural builds should be depicted. But obesity is not natural. It's tragically the new normal for a generation, or more, since the early 1980s. The most dangerous thing we can do is legitimize it for future generations. It must stop.
10
This is hilarious. T magazine which ends up in my Sunday NYT print edition about every four weeks has NOTHING but pre-teen “stick” figures as “fashion!” I actually gasp at the pix!
As a family doc I have elementary school girls on “diets.” In my well child visits I talk a lot to both boys and girls about body image, nutrition, and exercise. I tell the parents--Take the tablets and video games away--exercise with your children, hikes, vacation at National Parks NOT on cruise ships.
Play basketball, swim, surf, play tennis, golf (walk-no carts) just get outside! Introduce vegetables, decrease meat--use it like a condiment--for flavoring rather than as a main course. Stop using sugar and processed foods. No canned or bottled soft drinks. Desserts only for special occasions.
I even show pics of Barack Obama at age 10 and today. He was quite the plump little kid. But he wasn’t put on a diet..instead he played hoops, ran, and discovered girls. (Barack’s immensely popular in my home state of Hawai’i.)
But the poorer patients are the ones with obesity problems. They can’t afford fresh produce (last week in Honolulu apples were $17/lb and milk was $9.49/gal.) and 50 pound bags of white rice are amazingly cheap. Every family fills huge rice cookers each day..and white rice is basically just white sugar...90% carb and 220kcal/cup. Folks here eat 2 to 3 cups at EACH meal.
Thank god an Hawai’ian doctor developed a healthy diet from local foods-fish, poi,greens.
As a family doc I have elementary school girls on “diets.” In my well child visits I talk a lot to both boys and girls about body image, nutrition, and exercise. I tell the parents--Take the tablets and video games away--exercise with your children, hikes, vacation at National Parks NOT on cruise ships.
Play basketball, swim, surf, play tennis, golf (walk-no carts) just get outside! Introduce vegetables, decrease meat--use it like a condiment--for flavoring rather than as a main course. Stop using sugar and processed foods. No canned or bottled soft drinks. Desserts only for special occasions.
I even show pics of Barack Obama at age 10 and today. He was quite the plump little kid. But he wasn’t put on a diet..instead he played hoops, ran, and discovered girls. (Barack’s immensely popular in my home state of Hawai’i.)
But the poorer patients are the ones with obesity problems. They can’t afford fresh produce (last week in Honolulu apples were $17/lb and milk was $9.49/gal.) and 50 pound bags of white rice are amazingly cheap. Every family fills huge rice cookers each day..and white rice is basically just white sugar...90% carb and 220kcal/cup. Folks here eat 2 to 3 cups at EACH meal.
Thank god an Hawai’ian doctor developed a healthy diet from local foods-fish, poi,greens.
2
The skinny-and-skinnier trend for models has been going on for decades. There have been feminists protesting this for decades. The fact that a few voices of protest are finally emerging on social media or in pop culture and being heard more widely is great, but is hardly a reason to start celebrating victory or to turn away from possible political solutions. I applaud the efforts in Britain and France.
2
In my hockey locker room recently we (guys) were all talking about how it used to be that women hid their bottoms behind big long sweaters, and now they are proudly presenting them to the world. The majority present were in favor of this.
Everyone is different - and there is someone out there for all of of us - skinny, not skinny, and in between.
Everyone is different - and there is someone out there for all of of us - skinny, not skinny, and in between.
3
It's one thing to embrace a wider diversity of body types in media (which is a good thing). It's another to start banning "unhealthy" images. Who gets to decide that? And what makes that functionally all that different from Islamic countries banning the depiction of female bodies in media?
No thank you to governments or to self-appointed culture critics deciding what is or what isn't allowed.
No thank you to governments or to self-appointed culture critics deciding what is or what isn't allowed.
2
I agree. We need to stop judging women's bodies. Men are not subjected to this constant harassment. Mr. Khan is concerned about his daughter's body image? I doubt it. His concern is more about his religion's ban on any woman's image and body presence, regardless of claims to the contrary. Stay out of women's business!
Some people are naturally quite thin –– men and women, and they just don't put on weight.
It seems banning any body type is simply a form a prejudice and control.
Just have more types of models, such as those who actually look like the rest of society.
It seems banning any body type is simply a form a prejudice and control.
Just have more types of models, such as those who actually look like the rest of society.
2
I agree with the ban. As the author noted, seeing all body shapes and sizes is the ideal. Sadly, most advertising only depicts young, thin men and women. if anything, this ban would ensure all body types are represented; I certainly don't see a balanced approach re: variety of body types anywhere else in the media. I have been through treatment for anorexia. So for me, I welcome the break from all of the unattainable body images we are constantly exposed to. Even if it's a short public transit ride break.
48
SJWs do not get to define esthetics - the public does that via its spending. And Mayor Khan does not get to limit freedom of speech.
24
Advertising is only free speech because our Supreme Court is a wholly owned subsidiary of our corporate overlords. Regardless, this is England. They have very different rules about freedom of speech, particularly when it comes to advertising.
2
People are always saying I'm to thin. Other women always say they are envious, and they say things like "you have such a thin stomach" with like malice and anger. Like an accusation. I am too thin because I have stomach ulcers and I can't absorb much of the food I eat. However, I get told I'm anorexic or unhealthy all the time. To have images of me banned because I am a bad body image would make me really sad.
I actually hate being so thin. The reason I want to gain weight though is actually another societal warping: that big breasts are beautiful. I have very small breasts, and if I gained weight I'd be able to wear more than a training bra. However, I want bigger breasts for me, not anyone else. Is it anti-feminist to want bigger breasts if I'm not doing it to impress men (I'm a lesbian)? Just goes to show....it's hard to judge a person by just their picture.
I actually hate being so thin. The reason I want to gain weight though is actually another societal warping: that big breasts are beautiful. I have very small breasts, and if I gained weight I'd be able to wear more than a training bra. However, I want bigger breasts for me, not anyone else. Is it anti-feminist to want bigger breasts if I'm not doing it to impress men (I'm a lesbian)? Just goes to show....it's hard to judge a person by just their picture.
2
It is, however, easy to judge them by their comment.
1
There are seven distinct reasons that a mammal retains fat. Among them are conservation of resources, insulation, buoyancy, and certain socially based motivations. Once fat was an indicator of status, now leanness is.
A ‘normal’ human should reflect the needs of their body and their environment. That’s why we call it normal. But, each of us can decide; we have no duty to society, and it’s not society’s business.
But in our rush for freedom, independence, and personal choice, let’s not forget that someone carrying a hundred pounds of extra fat spends about 40% of their food budget just feeding their fat. So, the next time you see someone in a giant gas guzzling SUV, don’t be judgmental. That would be "Oil Shaming'. They’re just doing with oil what others do with food: Wasting it. Of course, your car doesn’t get diabetes or heart disease. Life just isn’t fair.
A ‘normal’ human should reflect the needs of their body and their environment. That’s why we call it normal. But, each of us can decide; we have no duty to society, and it’s not society’s business.
But in our rush for freedom, independence, and personal choice, let’s not forget that someone carrying a hundred pounds of extra fat spends about 40% of their food budget just feeding their fat. So, the next time you see someone in a giant gas guzzling SUV, don’t be judgmental. That would be "Oil Shaming'. They’re just doing with oil what others do with food: Wasting it. Of course, your car doesn’t get diabetes or heart disease. Life just isn’t fair.
4
Oh, so skinny-shaming exists? Like .03% of the time? Please. And the idea that the fashion industry is somehow, slowly, coming around to embracing all body types (i.e. anywoman larger than 135 lbs) is just hilarious. That's been a promise for a couple decades now. Yeah, let's just keep patting them on the back, for nothing. They didn't put Amy Schumer on the cover because they think she's attractive. If she weren't a comic genius they would completely ignore her and anyone who looked like her.
8
While magazines may do a few features about fuller sized women, you completely skirt the issue that it is the advertisers who perpetrate the virtually unobtainable and unhealthy condition that their models are photgraphed and photoshopped into. Anyone into serious fitmess knows that athletic models, notably ones shown in cologne ads, cannot maintaiin that level of conditioning for long, and it usually represents 'peaking'. When was the last time you saw a realistic "dad bod" in an Armani cologne ad?
2
Kahn's idea is not "a big step forward" at all. It's a typically paternalistic maneuver from someone conditioned by the proscriptive nature of his (Abrahamic) faith. The body in all its unruly primal splendor, it's appetites, drives, pathologies and functions, don't fit obediently into the brittle concepts of religion or politics. The response has always been one of fear and suppression since words first gave rise to laws and men have dictated to women what our neurotic condition will tolerate. In short, Puritanism , Sharia, Victorianism, ... Inhibition and shame.
2
This instance of limiting the "view" of women strikes me as a return to the "Protectorate of the Female" that was oftentimes the excuse for limiting women's participation in commerce, statecraft and theological leadership. The "girls" needed to be kept safe by others' actions--and were thus incapable of performing leadership roles. The reality is that we women use our economic and social power to transform society and appreciate the beautiful variety of our many forms. Thanks, but no thanks, Mayor Khan.
2
I agree with this editorial, but that is precisely what it is. The "News Analysis" label has always been a bit dodgy and I don't blame the paper for struggling with it, but to call this a news analysis instead of an opinion piece is more by way of giving up the struggle altogether. One understands the forces the Times struggles with as it tries to stay relevant, but the paper truly has gotten much shoddier lately on what ought to be very basic standards.
2
Here is a solution. Perhaps people seeing fat models could have special glasses so that the models appear thin.
Will the PC folk then seek to ban these glasses?
"He looked at me with thinning glasses. I was so humiliated!"
"You are right," says the judge, you deserve "$1 million in compensation for the grief caused to you."
Will the PC folk then seek to ban these glasses?
"He looked at me with thinning glasses. I was so humiliated!"
"You are right," says the judge, you deserve "$1 million in compensation for the grief caused to you."
3
On an individual level, we should reserve judgment without having the whole story. What irks me as a physician is the thought that extremes of BMI (Body Mass Index, determined by a person's height and weight, with numbers between 17-25 being normal, you can calculate your own online), whether anorexia or obesity, aren't indicators of health and can't be judged on a public health level.
The fact is that the extremes of BMI are (imperfectly) associated with one's health and life expectancy, as reproduced in a recent study in JAMA (2016;315(18)). The authors found that there is an inverse bell curve with a sweet spot in the middle (surprisingly in the low end of the "overweight" range compared to normal BMI's in prior decades studied, things like improvements in care of cardiovascular disease probably account for this) where overall mortality is optimized along with rates of cardiovascular disease. It's common knowledge that women (and men) with anorexia suffer from osteoporosis/fractures, arrhythmias, liver failure, psychiatric disease and other terrible ends while the obese suffer from increased rates of heart disease, stroke, diabetes, and cancer.
Our diversity and uniqueness should always be celebrated and our BMI is not the sum of our worth; that being said, we should not hesitate in calling a spade a spade and stopping exploitative practices of businesses focused on enhancing the bottom line while encouraging unhealthy trends and hurting their own employees.
The fact is that the extremes of BMI are (imperfectly) associated with one's health and life expectancy, as reproduced in a recent study in JAMA (2016;315(18)). The authors found that there is an inverse bell curve with a sweet spot in the middle (surprisingly in the low end of the "overweight" range compared to normal BMI's in prior decades studied, things like improvements in care of cardiovascular disease probably account for this) where overall mortality is optimized along with rates of cardiovascular disease. It's common knowledge that women (and men) with anorexia suffer from osteoporosis/fractures, arrhythmias, liver failure, psychiatric disease and other terrible ends while the obese suffer from increased rates of heart disease, stroke, diabetes, and cancer.
Our diversity and uniqueness should always be celebrated and our BMI is not the sum of our worth; that being said, we should not hesitate in calling a spade a spade and stopping exploitative practices of businesses focused on enhancing the bottom line while encouraging unhealthy trends and hurting their own employees.
9
Crazy. Mr Khan forgets that he is a mayor of a western city. We are supposed to have freedom of expression. Like it or not. Government officials should have no say on what kind of ads and posters we create.
3
johnj - Perhaps he is just a proponent of political correctness?
1
I do wish the body-shaming would stop. I'm very tired of "skinny shaming", which I have been a victim of my entire life, as has my wife. Neither of us are "skinny"; I consider myself normal weight, and fairly well-muscled. My wife is also normal weight for her height and build, and has (in my opinion) a very pleasing figure. We are both 67. It's extremely annoying to be called "skinny" by "fat" people who would be very offended if I returned the observation in kind.
3
People are very dismissive of skinny shaming. It's a very real problem. I won't go as far to say that it is worse for skinny people than for fat people. I know that generally bigger people have it rough and worse and that thin is more accepted. But my type of thin is not and though we might not have it as bad, it's still a real issue.
I'm about 5-2" and approx 100 lbs. My whole family is small. I know plenty of skinny people who have also hurt themselves in an effort to gain weight. My sister took some sketchy "medicine" and gained about 60 pounds in a few months just so that she wouldn't have to be skinny anymore. I used to refuse to wear bathing suits or shorts because I thought I was too skinny. People comment on my size and weight all the time, but would never do the same to a fat person. It's even worse when you're part of an ethnic minority that has always preferred big girls.
Bottom line, skinny people are people too, we have body issues caused by society and we hurt. DO NOT comment on someone else's size, whether big or small. Keep your judgments to yourself.
I'm about 5-2" and approx 100 lbs. My whole family is small. I know plenty of skinny people who have also hurt themselves in an effort to gain weight. My sister took some sketchy "medicine" and gained about 60 pounds in a few months just so that she wouldn't have to be skinny anymore. I used to refuse to wear bathing suits or shorts because I thought I was too skinny. People comment on my size and weight all the time, but would never do the same to a fat person. It's even worse when you're part of an ethnic minority that has always preferred big girls.
Bottom line, skinny people are people too, we have body issues caused by society and we hurt. DO NOT comment on someone else's size, whether big or small. Keep your judgments to yourself.
1
I was at a loss when I read this '......Misty Copeland, who is famous not only for being the first African-American principal dancer at American Ballet Theater, but also for not adhering to the ballerina body stereotype.' She has a small but strong frame with narrow hips. That IS the stereotypical ballet body.
3
The problem is that there are far more extremely thin and tall girls depicted in ads than there are those of average height and weight. Go to any shopping mall,
women's wear store or website and you will find that true. Why not show all body types tall, short, apple shaped, thin, pear shaped, and make clothes that flatter each? Neither extreme thinness nor obesity is healthy and celebrating or promoting either one is not a good thing.
women's wear store or website and you will find that true. Why not show all body types tall, short, apple shaped, thin, pear shaped, and make clothes that flatter each? Neither extreme thinness nor obesity is healthy and celebrating or promoting either one is not a good thing.
4
Sorry, there is a model in this month's fashion magazines who must be 6 feet tall and 90 pounds. That's sick, literally. Young girls looking at her will aspire to be like her. That's unhealthy and just plain wrong.
5
If you want "normal looking" women ie just like you and me all ages normal body types etc it will not happen because it will not meet the magazine standard of beauty to sell. Tabloid or fashion magazines specifically show only women of a certain age beauty and size. They cannot sell magazines unless the usual female on every page is tall thin beautiful frequently white (although color is making its way into fashion.). The online version of Mail online does showcase another body type besides thin and that is of the overly large buttochs and bossoms of Ms Kardasion. I applaud this but its not inclusive of all types. Where is the cellulite? Now with the obesity epidemic very few meet the old standard of normal. The new normal is something else.
1
To be consistent, London should ban all photos of fat people. Obesity is pretty unhealthy,, too.
5
I am a feminist. I find many images of women in the media offensive and deleterious to women.
But I find Mayor Khan's proposal to ban ads with skinny models both offensive and patronizing. It runs counter to my deeply held value of free speech and smacks of many other attempts to limit the freedom of women in the name of "protecting" us. Next thing you know, we'll have proposals to cover up women in public so that we don't hurt men who find their sexual feelings uncomfortable. Oh, wait. We already have that.
But I find Mayor Khan's proposal to ban ads with skinny models both offensive and patronizing. It runs counter to my deeply held value of free speech and smacks of many other attempts to limit the freedom of women in the name of "protecting" us. Next thing you know, we'll have proposals to cover up women in public so that we don't hurt men who find their sexual feelings uncomfortable. Oh, wait. We already have that.
94
Our news are already manipulated, now images are manipulated by politicians, too.
What's next?
Shame on our thoughts?
Freedom seems to have become a dirty word.
What's next?
Shame on our thoughts?
Freedom seems to have become a dirty word.
1
I won't lie. I would have never seen the Gucci ad unless it was banned. The first thing I did was look it up after I learned it was banned. I thought the woman was probably too thin, but who am I to judge her body as being a negative female image? I mean, will there be like a board of second wave feminists that will get to decide what is "right?" Why don't they just ban all bikini photos because they demean women? Why not ban cooking shows run by women because they reinforce a negative female Image?
Banning almost anything doesn't make things better. We should have learned this after Prohibition, but then it also took 40 years of the failed War on Drugs. Banning images of people will only prevent people from having real discussions about female body types.
We need to be open and condemn advertisements that show obviously anorexic models. However, we should not ban and censor all advertisements.
Banning almost anything doesn't make things better. We should have learned this after Prohibition, but then it also took 40 years of the failed War on Drugs. Banning images of people will only prevent people from having real discussions about female body types.
We need to be open and condemn advertisements that show obviously anorexic models. However, we should not ban and censor all advertisements.
34
Among the body dysmorphic coping mechanisms, restriction of food intake with resulting anorexia is the most easily recognized.
But, one can binge & "look" physically normal.
One can exercise obsessively (running), & look "buff".
One can "evacuate" one's bowels to achieve one's weight goals, no matter how unreasonable they are.
Let's start with school nurses & referrals to psychiatrists.
But, one can binge & "look" physically normal.
One can exercise obsessively (running), & look "buff".
One can "evacuate" one's bowels to achieve one's weight goals, no matter how unreasonable they are.
Let's start with school nurses & referrals to psychiatrists.
1
If the London Transit featured an ad for a BMW 740i, would that cause people to have "unrealistic expectations" about the car they drive?
I have a teen-age daughter who is smart enough to know that an image of a model on a subway train is no yardstick against which to measure herself.
The images of models on buses or subways is about 1/1,000 of the total images we see of models on the Internet, on TV, in movies, in magazines, etc. So this ban will accomplish exactly what apart from making some bureaucratic know-it-alls feel good about doing something with zero impact?
What's next? Banning beautiful women from riding the metro because others might see them and feel physically inferior?
I have a teen-age daughter who is smart enough to know that an image of a model on a subway train is no yardstick against which to measure herself.
The images of models on buses or subways is about 1/1,000 of the total images we see of models on the Internet, on TV, in movies, in magazines, etc. So this ban will accomplish exactly what apart from making some bureaucratic know-it-alls feel good about doing something with zero impact?
What's next? Banning beautiful women from riding the metro because others might see them and feel physically inferior?
91
"So this ban will accomplish exactly what apart from making some bureaucratic know-it-alls feel good about doing something with zero impact?"
All it will accomplish is to allow some parasitic, unelected bureaucrat to justify their useless existence.
All it will accomplish is to allow some parasitic, unelected bureaucrat to justify their useless existence.
2
Define "beautiful".
1
Well the Saudis do it, or something similar anyways.
The ban seems like a good step to me.
5
As a parent of a child who has body dysmorphic disorder and the uncle of a child who suffered from anorexia I disagree with the reasoning in this article.
Change is happening far too slowly. There are too many suicide attempts due to the inability of adolescents to conform to excessive thinness and angularity portrayed in fashion advertisements.
Change is happening far too slowly. There are too many suicide attempts due to the inability of adolescents to conform to excessive thinness and angularity portrayed in fashion advertisements.
99
I see just the opposite. I walk out my door, and as far as the eye can see, obesity, obese men, obese women, obese children, rich and poor alike.
2
Much as I want to agree with Ms. Friedman, I find this essay entirely unpersuasive.
Women are incessantly bombarded with unattainable fashion images of thin, tall women-- images that very few can replicate. Even worse, these images are Photo-Shop-Ed to an even more unattainable level of perfection. Finally, most images depict women under 30, and a sizable share depict women under 20.
For every image of Amy Schumer, Oprah Winfrey or a plus-sized model, there are hundreds of images of tall, skinny models who resemble very few real women, and very few women over 30.
So how do we get the diversity in size, shape and age that Ms. Friedman purports to desire in media images? I understand her distaste for a ban on certain images, but what other mechanism/s would be as effective? This essay would have been far more persuasive had alternatives to a ban been laid out.
Women are incessantly bombarded with unattainable fashion images of thin, tall women-- images that very few can replicate. Even worse, these images are Photo-Shop-Ed to an even more unattainable level of perfection. Finally, most images depict women under 30, and a sizable share depict women under 20.
For every image of Amy Schumer, Oprah Winfrey or a plus-sized model, there are hundreds of images of tall, skinny models who resemble very few real women, and very few women over 30.
So how do we get the diversity in size, shape and age that Ms. Friedman purports to desire in media images? I understand her distaste for a ban on certain images, but what other mechanism/s would be as effective? This essay would have been far more persuasive had alternatives to a ban been laid out.
132
I'm not sure a woman becomes anorectic because she sees photos of women who are very skinny. "The Best Little Girl in the World" is one source book suggesting otherwise.
I also think promoting "curvy" to mean huge isn't healthy either. Melissa McCarthy was hardly the model you'd want your child to aim for. Ironically, once she lost a lot of that excess weight, she no longer fit the model for Molly on Mike and Molly and thus it was cancelled.
We obviously have an issue with how we, as a society, perceive women's bodies. Perhaps, like abortion, this needs to be left to the woman and her doctor.
I also think promoting "curvy" to mean huge isn't healthy either. Melissa McCarthy was hardly the model you'd want your child to aim for. Ironically, once she lost a lot of that excess weight, she no longer fit the model for Molly on Mike and Molly and thus it was cancelled.
We obviously have an issue with how we, as a society, perceive women's bodies. Perhaps, like abortion, this needs to be left to the woman and her doctor.
77
Look up "thinspo" ("thin" + 'Inspiration"). Girls with eating disorders use ultra-thin models for inspiration. That, and the fact that these illnesses are culture specific, suggest to me that the ultra-thin models do have an influence.
70
What?
Anorexia and bulimia (inducing vomiting after binge eating) can be fatal eating disorders...in fact one in ten girls who have anorexia will die. Boys ALSO have eating disorders.
You speak about “women.” Well 40% of FIRST graders are on a “diet” and boys are included. Where do you think that comes from? Not much of a problem in Bangladesh or Syria.
Children including teens are surrounded by what a woman’s body or man’s body “should” look like. Research shows that folks with “ideal” body types--slim and tall--make CEO or succeed at most every endeavor.
Every ad, every magazine shows young slim bodies. Television, even the extras in a scene are great looking. I laugh at present day Hawai’i 5-0. In any TV shot on Waikiki you will see nothing but young men and women-usually white in GREAT SHAPE. You know what Waikiki REALLY looks like? Overweight to morbidly obese tourists lying on the sand.
Even video games have characters with great looking male or female bodies.
Our presumptive GOP Prez candidate thinks that all women are losers unless they look like his model wife. His picture of Heidi Cruz (Ted Cruz’ wife) next to his model wife brought the most “likes” and derisive comments of ANY tweet Donald put out there.
Joe, you guys have NO idea what it is like to be judged continually on your looks! I gave up using my picture and real name because of the horrific comments about being an “old ugly woman.” Yet you don’t think twice about your pic.right?
Anorexia and bulimia (inducing vomiting after binge eating) can be fatal eating disorders...in fact one in ten girls who have anorexia will die. Boys ALSO have eating disorders.
You speak about “women.” Well 40% of FIRST graders are on a “diet” and boys are included. Where do you think that comes from? Not much of a problem in Bangladesh or Syria.
Children including teens are surrounded by what a woman’s body or man’s body “should” look like. Research shows that folks with “ideal” body types--slim and tall--make CEO or succeed at most every endeavor.
Every ad, every magazine shows young slim bodies. Television, even the extras in a scene are great looking. I laugh at present day Hawai’i 5-0. In any TV shot on Waikiki you will see nothing but young men and women-usually white in GREAT SHAPE. You know what Waikiki REALLY looks like? Overweight to morbidly obese tourists lying on the sand.
Even video games have characters with great looking male or female bodies.
Our presumptive GOP Prez candidate thinks that all women are losers unless they look like his model wife. His picture of Heidi Cruz (Ted Cruz’ wife) next to his model wife brought the most “likes” and derisive comments of ANY tweet Donald put out there.
Joe, you guys have NO idea what it is like to be judged continually on your looks! I gave up using my picture and real name because of the horrific comments about being an “old ugly woman.” Yet you don’t think twice about your pic.right?
7
Joe, it's great to see someone mention this book, which I am concerned is all but forgotten. I recall its central thesis is that anorexia is about control, not body image.
I'm not sure that I agree with either extreme.
The frequently anorexic models (or models photoshopped to appear so) do have an effect on young women, and in the case of some -can lead to eating disorders like anorexia, which has the highest death rate of any psychiatric illness. I can see no responsible rationale for these strange, fetishistic images of an emaciated body type that few actually find attractive, particularly since the models themselves often feel pressured to adopt unhealthy behaviors such as starvation and smoking to stay thin.
At the same time, attempts to celebrate obesity accept a condition that, while less quickly lethal than anorexia, effects more far more people and is extremely injurious to health. It is also rather silly and PC to pretend that every body type is equally attractive or that, given human nature and the evolutionary imperative to choose fit partners, it ever will be. It is understood that models and actresses are unusually beautiful, just as it is understood that professors are unusually smart and sergeants unusually tough. The rest of us must get used to the fact that we can't compete with supermodels and, more importantly, that we don't have to.
So -- let's see attractive models of normal, healthy weight. That is an ideal that is achievable by most, and it is easily determined objectively using readily available scientific data.
The frequently anorexic models (or models photoshopped to appear so) do have an effect on young women, and in the case of some -can lead to eating disorders like anorexia, which has the highest death rate of any psychiatric illness. I can see no responsible rationale for these strange, fetishistic images of an emaciated body type that few actually find attractive, particularly since the models themselves often feel pressured to adopt unhealthy behaviors such as starvation and smoking to stay thin.
At the same time, attempts to celebrate obesity accept a condition that, while less quickly lethal than anorexia, effects more far more people and is extremely injurious to health. It is also rather silly and PC to pretend that every body type is equally attractive or that, given human nature and the evolutionary imperative to choose fit partners, it ever will be. It is understood that models and actresses are unusually beautiful, just as it is understood that professors are unusually smart and sergeants unusually tough. The rest of us must get used to the fact that we can't compete with supermodels and, more importantly, that we don't have to.
So -- let's see attractive models of normal, healthy weight. That is an ideal that is achievable by most, and it is easily determined objectively using readily available scientific data.
182
Honestly Josh -- please show me where some mainstream advertising or media is "celebrating" obesity.
I mean real obesity, not someone like Amy Schumer who is a very attractive lady with a average sized body (not a model, but certainly not obese).
I'm 60, and I have never seen this in my entire lifetime. But what I have seen are hundreds and hundreds of women -- virtually every woman I have ever known -- was tormented their entire lives by having unrealistic standards of thinness (and youth, and beauty) held over them, and if they deviate from it even a tiny bit, they are ridiculed and shamed.
I saw the "yellow bikini" ad that kicked this off. Your comment suggests that there are an equal number of ads, showing morbidly obese women in yellow bikinis, that are widely published and seen, and viewed positively by the general population.
Do you realize that today, a "plus size model" (a fashion model who is photographed selling clothing above a women's size 14-16) can herself be no larger than a size 10? And a model for regular sized women's clothing can be no larger than 0 or size 2?
Nobody wants to compete with a supermodel; THATS the point. We shouldn't have to compete with supermodels. Why can't there be models of all sizes? with the majority having healthy, normal bodies? And not just "thin vs fat", but short, stocky, muscular, differently-abled and the whole amazing potential of human diversity?.
I mean real obesity, not someone like Amy Schumer who is a very attractive lady with a average sized body (not a model, but certainly not obese).
I'm 60, and I have never seen this in my entire lifetime. But what I have seen are hundreds and hundreds of women -- virtually every woman I have ever known -- was tormented their entire lives by having unrealistic standards of thinness (and youth, and beauty) held over them, and if they deviate from it even a tiny bit, they are ridiculed and shamed.
I saw the "yellow bikini" ad that kicked this off. Your comment suggests that there are an equal number of ads, showing morbidly obese women in yellow bikinis, that are widely published and seen, and viewed positively by the general population.
Do you realize that today, a "plus size model" (a fashion model who is photographed selling clothing above a women's size 14-16) can herself be no larger than a size 10? And a model for regular sized women's clothing can be no larger than 0 or size 2?
Nobody wants to compete with a supermodel; THATS the point. We shouldn't have to compete with supermodels. Why can't there be models of all sizes? with the majority having healthy, normal bodies? And not just "thin vs fat", but short, stocky, muscular, differently-abled and the whole amazing potential of human diversity?.
64
well put
1
Are "Josh" and "Joe" the only two people commenting here on an article addressing women and body image? Eating disorders are primarily a family systems disorder. Also, many cases of eating disorders can be traced back through generations of family members. Good therapy with boundaries can help. Food (restriction, purging, and/or compulsive overeating) is a coping mechanism that allows people to deal with or avoid completely difficult feelings. Food and feelings are merged together. Our body conscious/over sexualized society has unrealistic standards for girls growing up today as it is. Stop telling women not to be too curvy, too skinny, too heavy, whatever terms you use. How about enjoy food when you want to (ice cream! Pizza!) but eat healthy most of the time (promote vegetables, fruits, whole grains, lean proteins, nuts, etc). Moderation is the key. Exercise is great for the body, the brain, and inner confidence. So is meditation and yoga. Stop telling women to be "better". We all come in different shapes and sizes. There is no perfect or ideal. We are brainwashed into thinking this. There IS self love, self acceptance, and self awareness. Throw away your women's magazines! They are only contributing to you feeling bad about your shape, your size, and your food and life choices. Do not compare yourself to celebrities or models or you will feel eternally disappointed in yourself.
1