forty-three is young? martine le pen is 47.
16
You can't "tackle the problems" if you don't make the rules.
A glorious day as the progressive talking heads on both sides of the pond, explode!
A glorious day as the progressive talking heads on both sides of the pond, explode!
18
I am always astonished at the casual anti-Arab racism of NYT editorials. In general, NYT coverage is very supportive of American Muslims. But when you casually describe the culture that brought Aristotle to the West, with one of the most developed legal codes in the world, and an ancient and independent Christian community, as a "scapegoating culture," you are part of the problem.
12
British people have got it all wrong,the enemy is not the EU but the "City of London" and their likes all over the world.Brexit does not solve any of the problems the UK is experiencing,quite contrary,it will make things worse.The day Britts will realise what they have done they will regret letting themselves being lead to an abyss by a "Charlatan" like Boris J.
16
Europe before the EU was so much safer, and more fun in general...If you've been there before EU, you realize the wonderful seperate cultures/monies etc...The Clinton/Obama mantra of a " gorgeous mosaic" is wrong and dangerous to individuality.
17
Young people need to take the street if they cannot take the ballot box. The old need to know their and ideals are waning. Meanwhile, our common enemies in ISIS and the Kremlin are laughing at us.
5
Note how the 25-49 'youth' vote went. (YouGov poll)
18-24: 75% Remain
25-49: 56% Remain
50-64: 44% Remain
65+: 39% Remain
18-24: 75% Remain
25-49: 56% Remain
50-64: 44% Remain
65+: 39% Remain
7
Now that the Republican clown car has gone transnational with Trump behind the wheel and Farages, Le Pen, and Wilderses shouting directions from the back seat, it might behoove us to begin learning Mandarin or Cantonese...languages, not cuisines. These four are doing ISIS's hard work for them, whipping up hatred for the innocent and non-violent on the basis of language, skin color, and the lie that all Muslims represent ISIS's bastardized version of that religion.
It has been my observation that among the major powers of the world, only China appears not to have much of a problem with religious terrorism, real or imagined. And since ISIS is not a threat to China, as the rest of the "civilized" world succumbs to the panic of the sclerotic, China steps up as the most obvious haven from the radicalism of Islam ISIS style.
It is now up to the United States to prevent or to hasten the above possibility into being. Thank you, Paul Ryan, Mitch McConnell, Reince Priebus and company for putting us in this situation.
It has been my observation that among the major powers of the world, only China appears not to have much of a problem with religious terrorism, real or imagined. And since ISIS is not a threat to China, as the rest of the "civilized" world succumbs to the panic of the sclerotic, China steps up as the most obvious haven from the radicalism of Islam ISIS style.
It is now up to the United States to prevent or to hasten the above possibility into being. Thank you, Paul Ryan, Mitch McConnell, Reince Priebus and company for putting us in this situation.
10
Do you really think all of the 52% that voted "Leave" are xenophobes who were "act(ing) out their long-kept lust for demolition". I'm certain many think Nigel Farage is a horse's arse but coincidentally agree with him on "Leave" because they think the EU is a sinking ship and it would be best to get out sooner rather than later. By all means, lets have mutually beneficial trade/cultural/etc. agreements but let's lose the creepy "ever closer union" baggage and unaccountable Eurocrats. The question should be: "What is the right amount of union".
30
This writer is totally myopic ...how did he get this article published in such a revered paper/brand!
By comparing so generically age, from the young to the "old" and then thinking democratically some type of "process" will help with the growth of productive globalization...which truly is for the top .05% who control the power levers...NOT the immigrants, up to the diluted middle class...this writer needs to take more caffeine...get his brain's blood vessels moving again...
By comparing so generically age, from the young to the "old" and then thinking democratically some type of "process" will help with the growth of productive globalization...which truly is for the top .05% who control the power levers...NOT the immigrants, up to the diluted middle class...this writer needs to take more caffeine...get his brain's blood vessels moving again...
14
You, yeah you the young one that hasn't done s damn thing to make this world better, shut the fuck up.
Bet you won't post that one.
Bet you won't post that one.
29
Jochen, you have written something intelligent. Congrats!
Now, I was born in 1954, so physically, I am not so young as you are. But that WAS the year of Rock Around the Clock, Elvis' first hit and the year a disk jockey in Cleveland (Alan "Moondog" Freed) "coined" the term, "rock'n'roll" (although, "rocking" and "rolling" "all night long", way down South, most people already KNEW what that meant---funky!).
So who's counting?
Now, I was born in 1954, so physically, I am not so young as you are. But that WAS the year of Rock Around the Clock, Elvis' first hit and the year a disk jockey in Cleveland (Alan "Moondog" Freed) "coined" the term, "rock'n'roll" (although, "rocking" and "rolling" "all night long", way down South, most people already KNEW what that meant---funky!).
So who's counting?
5
Simple. How would you like it if (on average) it cost you (in personal taxes) in excess of $1,500.00 each year to be a member of a club (EU) that you receive NOTHING from? Taxation without representation anyone?
Well, neither did the citizens of the UK, hence BREXIT.
UK worked just fine before EU, and UK will work just fine again-- there is nothing to fear, all you need is courage to act.
Next will be Holland, France will get a vote, then...
Face it, the EU is a failed experiment, now is the time for a new direction. 27 European countries take note.
Well, neither did the citizens of the UK, hence BREXIT.
UK worked just fine before EU, and UK will work just fine again-- there is nothing to fear, all you need is courage to act.
Next will be Holland, France will get a vote, then...
Face it, the EU is a failed experiment, now is the time for a new direction. 27 European countries take note.
21
OLD Social “Insecurity” vs. Brexit!
On Friday, Reuters says world stock markets lost $2 TRILLION. Loads of people are ranting and raving re the Brexit vote.
Over the long run, it may be good if it helps to reduce the rampant political corruption, irresponsibility, incompetence, repression of freedom for billions of people, etc. in just about every country. That includes the U.S. Thus this could be sort of a cure for extremely bad diseases, a withdrawal from addictions, etc. Of course, it’s far from certain that the problems really will be reduced significantly. Politicians have gigantic #’s of tricks, as well as innumerable tentacles to pull them off!
Just before the vote, the U.S. Social “Insecurity” report for 2015 was released. It showed these NET totals in the crapper in the long run, in current $’s:
2015 Y/E NET IN THE CRAPPER = $32.1 TRILLION!!!
2014 Y/E NET IN THE CRAPPER = $25.8 TRILLION!!!
NET AMOUNT MORE IN THE CRAPPER IN ONE YEAR = $6.3 TRILLION!!!
AND many analysts say that Social “Insecurity” has been cooking its books for yrs! The new total may FINALLY change some of that. BUT some of their #’s still are way off compared to other number crunchers, including CBO, Harvard-Dartmouth profs, etc. Even worse are many other lunacies besides!
So last year in the U.S. it racked up more than 3 TIMES the $2 TRILLION in worldwide stock market losses. AND Social "Insecurity" is even far worse due to many other huge problems.
Hey, no big deal.
On Friday, Reuters says world stock markets lost $2 TRILLION. Loads of people are ranting and raving re the Brexit vote.
Over the long run, it may be good if it helps to reduce the rampant political corruption, irresponsibility, incompetence, repression of freedom for billions of people, etc. in just about every country. That includes the U.S. Thus this could be sort of a cure for extremely bad diseases, a withdrawal from addictions, etc. Of course, it’s far from certain that the problems really will be reduced significantly. Politicians have gigantic #’s of tricks, as well as innumerable tentacles to pull them off!
Just before the vote, the U.S. Social “Insecurity” report for 2015 was released. It showed these NET totals in the crapper in the long run, in current $’s:
2015 Y/E NET IN THE CRAPPER = $32.1 TRILLION!!!
2014 Y/E NET IN THE CRAPPER = $25.8 TRILLION!!!
NET AMOUNT MORE IN THE CRAPPER IN ONE YEAR = $6.3 TRILLION!!!
AND many analysts say that Social “Insecurity” has been cooking its books for yrs! The new total may FINALLY change some of that. BUT some of their #’s still are way off compared to other number crunchers, including CBO, Harvard-Dartmouth profs, etc. Even worse are many other lunacies besides!
So last year in the U.S. it racked up more than 3 TIMES the $2 TRILLION in worldwide stock market losses. AND Social "Insecurity" is even far worse due to many other huge problems.
Hey, no big deal.
1
What a what a naive, pollyannish, one-dimensional, ignore-most-relevant-facts article! You need to be sent back to school, YOUNG man!
20
Word of advice,Jochen. If you wish to appeal to America's Left you must always say 'angry old white men'. Until then you are not a full fledged member.
40
SO....David, how did that austerity agenda work out for you...I know you will land in some corporate bonus world...where most of our political class lands, but you were too clever by too much...good bye..
8
Interesting; the angry old men can recall WWII yet risk returning to those "halcyon" days while the young who have no recall run from them.
6
What drivel. Name calling is not a compelling argument. Why does the Times publish an opinion totally lacking in substance, factual information and balance.
21
Nigel Farage never had succeeded in winning a seat in UK parliament although he seems to have tried several times(per wikipedia). Now this obnoxious guy, who by comparison by make Donald Trump look mild, is the new face of UK, the voice of the people? So much for Democrazy!
10
" Age and treachery, will always overcome youth and skill"
9
Dang! I was hoping to read at least one article on this without encountering the word 'xenophobia" - but disappointed again. What happened? Did all the "young, optimistic millions" born after 1973 suddenly learn a new word and can't wait to use it to impress their teachers? For the angry masses born before that - and I guess there are no angry old women? - it means someone who can't stand foreigners, the angry old man way of saying it. Because, you know, they don't like them new fangled words them youngin's use like zeno.. ??- or something like that.
11
What extraordinary hubris by the author and commenters here.
Who sits around calling themselves "the enlightened ones"?
Nutters.
Who sits around calling themselves "the enlightened ones"?
Nutters.
27
Please explain again why racism and sexism are unacceptable but ageism is all hunky-dory.
40
I will write off the incredible arrogance of Mr. Bittner to his youth.
Discounting the opinion of people because of their age is neither glorious nor smart. We were all young and we will (hopefully) all be old one day.
And saying of people whose life got destroyed by globalization that they lack "guts or imagination" is both arrogant and stupid. I am a SAP consultant (as the German you know well that it puts me on the "winner" side of the new economy), but even I am disgusted by what happens to those who lack our education and sheer luck.
When you mention "traditional forms of democracy" it does not exactly sound as you are regretting them. "One man one vote" means that the unwashed Tabloid reader gets the same vote as Herr Doktor Phil., of Die Zeit fame. Galling isn'it?
You got a big lesson in humility, do not waste it. the next one may be much more unpleasant
Discounting the opinion of people because of their age is neither glorious nor smart. We were all young and we will (hopefully) all be old one day.
And saying of people whose life got destroyed by globalization that they lack "guts or imagination" is both arrogant and stupid. I am a SAP consultant (as the German you know well that it puts me on the "winner" side of the new economy), but even I am disgusted by what happens to those who lack our education and sheer luck.
When you mention "traditional forms of democracy" it does not exactly sound as you are regretting them. "One man one vote" means that the unwashed Tabloid reader gets the same vote as Herr Doktor Phil., of Die Zeit fame. Galling isn'it?
You got a big lesson in humility, do not waste it. the next one may be much more unpleasant
138
The term "Angry Old Men" is offensive and is not "Fit to Print".
36
You assert that the problem of unlimited migration of workers within the Union could have been solved by internal adjustments without complete separation. But the mandarins of the EU continuously and persistently refused to deal with this problem. These workers under sell British labor and are, of course, the darlings of the employers. Because they are not true immigrants,only migrants,their loyalty is commonly to their home country to which they remit their earnings. Needless to say, they do not assimilate into British culture. Had the EU taken THIS ONE problem seriously, Brexit would not have happened.
40
You forget that there are plenty of people scooping up profits in this post 1989 world....they are the 1%, and they control the established lying dysfunctional oligarch bowing politicians. It isn't that the populace lack the "guts" to take on the downside of globalization; its that they lack the power...and they're mad.
22
So young voters were conservative, fearful of the new, and older voters voted hope and change.
21
After reading all of the comment posted here, I seriously start to wonder how many people (or, even Americans) are actually familiar with Nigel Farage and the United Kingdom Independence Party (UKIP) -- For starters, it has nothing to do with being an 'Independent', like Bernie Sanders -- and everything to do with a not so subtly hidden right-wing Nationalist agenda. And his appeal to the working-class has a distinctly anti-immigration/racist edge to it.
Don't let those photos of an ever- smiling Mr. Farage fool you.
Don't let those photos of an ever- smiling Mr. Farage fool you.
18
It takes some mighty ego to claim to be speaking for "we, the young", Mr. Bittner. You aren't, you know. You're speaking for some who may agree in whole or in part with what you say. And your addressing the "old" as a single monolithic individual is a similarly fallacious mistake. It makes for simple and, for those who agree with you and prefer not to think much, no doubt satisfying reading, but it's worth virtually nothing more. Adding further division unnecessarily, insulting many who would be your allies heedlessly--you need to learn to care as much for truth and wisdom as you do for a pat answer to hawk, no matter the venue.
32
Why exactly can't Europe just shut its doors, and ignore the "developing world" on its borders? It's a lot better than opening them wide, and becoming part of the "developing world yourself.
26
When Scotland declares itself an independent republic and Northern Ireland opts to join the rest Ireland there will no longer be a United Kingdom.
11
Mr. Bittner offers no concrete solutions on how to take on the downsides of globalization. He vaguely associates the British vote with the culture of the Arab world (that is really a long shot). He suggests it is dangerous to ignore the pressure of the developing world on Europes's borders (why?) What comes across clearly in Mr; Bittner's piece is this recurring anti-democratic thinking that's been growing since the eighties that people are too foolish to govern themselves. Boy! This really belongs in the OPINION section!
23
If it is men and women, why does the writer insist on using males as a cudjel in a manner reminiscent of radfems?
18
Leave it to the Times to paint the picture as all doom and gloom. The voters have spoken so give them some credit. Britain has weathered much worse storms than leaving the EU don't you think?
Britain is once again leading the world back from the brink and asserting her independence.
Let's pat our ally on the back and wish her good sailing.
"There will always be an England and England shall be free."
Britain is once again leading the world back from the brink and asserting her independence.
Let's pat our ally on the back and wish her good sailing.
"There will always be an England and England shall be free."
27
What you see going on in UK and to a lesser degree in USA is why I never long for the "old days". I have no allegiance to the 50's-60-s-70's or any other time when "America was great". Just yesterday i was having a discussion on Twitter with several gentleman who believed "we have an obligation to bring back the coal mining industry and those jobs". I was no huge fan of Steve Jobs but he was correct when he said "those jobs are not coming back". We dont have any obligation to bring back any jobs from an industry that is not self sustaining and "not self sustaining" describes coal mining as well as anything. Seeing total fool Trump pretending he can bring back coal mining jobs when he is pretending to dig a pile of coal in a $3000 suit and that stupid red a cap is so ludicrous I wanted to heave. Coal mining companies dont want those jobs back either because they just knock down mountain tops and extract coal from those piles. They dont want to have to deal with miners in tunnels either. Cheaper to extract than dig and those miners know it better than anyone. If a group of workers in a dying industry know it is dying and they choose not to educate themselves what do WE owe THEM?
17
I wonder if Brexit would have passed if the West in the last century had not so successfully expanded the life span of human beings? Wouldn't enough of the pro-Brexit voters be already dead to change the 52:48 split?
Can a dynamic democracy survive the doddering classes?
Can a dynamic democracy survive the doddering classes?
4
You should never have referendums on complex issues. Representatives are supposed to make the tough decisions. Ordinary people, no matter how well intentioned, do not have the time and expertise to understand complex economic issues. Referendums methods for the gutless to are pass the buck. That is the real lesson of Brexit. The failure of leadership.
https://josephurban.wordpress.com/2016/06/24/lesson-of-brexit/
https://josephurban.wordpress.com/2016/06/24/lesson-of-brexit/
30
Britain, France, and the Netherlands have all experienced terrorist attacks by Muslim immigrants. They rightly believe leaving the EU will help them regain control of their borders. They should not be criticized for this rational goal.
21
Mate, are you tone deaf? While I wish the Brexit wasn't happening, it definitely is a bellwether for a toxic political climate and growing discontent within Europe. You push forward with your 'constructive cooperation' if you want, but I would be cautious to label those who don't agree with it 'maniacs of disintegration.' Even in Germany, that silent minority will soon start having a voice.
20
I once saw a cook in the back of a restaurant spit into a pot of soup and absent-mindedly drink from that pot about 30 minutes later.
“Leave” voters in Britain did that yesterday and Trump voters here are about to.
“Leave” voters in Britain did that yesterday and Trump voters here are about to.
7
Not much good comes from driving forward while staring into the rear view mirror on the wrong side of the road.
6
Just more demagoguery, directing the attention of the mob to a politically correct target.
15
Just what the world needs, another 'wedge issue' thrust upon them.
Old vs. young. Good grief.
It's never the moneyed powerful elite vs. the rest of us, is it?
Coming soon people who like apples vs. those who like oranges.
Anything to keep us separated and feuding, anything.
Old vs. young. Good grief.
It's never the moneyed powerful elite vs. the rest of us, is it?
Coming soon people who like apples vs. those who like oranges.
Anything to keep us separated and feuding, anything.
24
Why is it always angry old men, there must be quite a few angry old woman. Ageism and sexism are as rampant as nationalism.
19
So what? Brits want to be on their own. Big deal. Not really such a big deal at all.
Maybe the Brits like who they are. Maybe they don't need approval from other countries to be who they want to be.
Maybe the Brits don't need or want to tie themselves to other countries economies, societies, problems, or mismanagement. Maybe they are smarter than you think.
Maybe they are different. At least they respect the diversity of people, including all those angry old men..
Maybe the Brits like who they are. Maybe they don't need approval from other countries to be who they want to be.
Maybe the Brits don't need or want to tie themselves to other countries economies, societies, problems, or mismanagement. Maybe they are smarter than you think.
Maybe they are different. At least they respect the diversity of people, including all those angry old men..
15
>>>>>
We have the same clowns, probably more, here in this country.
We are at the very beginning of a fascist movement that will make the last one look like child's play. These kind of angry old men, thinking they'll come out on top, have planned the failure of democracy for a long time. Their ignorant followers will get their comeuppance as will they, but not before they bleed the world first. Life is durable but civilization is fragile.
"How can it really surprise us that this world is the realm of chance, error, and folly that cripples wisdom, that wickedness acts therein with unrestrained violence, and every reflected splendor of the eternal finds a place only by accident and is, on the other hand, suppressed a thousand times? How, I say, can this surprise us, for indeed this very world (i.e., our empirical, sensuous, and rational consciousness in space and time) has its origin only through that which, according to the utterance of our better consciousness , ought not to be, but is the wrong direction from which virtue and asceticism are the return journey and, in consequence of this, a peaceful death is the release, like that of ripe fruit from the tree, and Plato ( Phaedo ), therefore, calls the entire life of the “sage a long time dying,” i.e., a breaking away from such a world?"
Artie Schopenhauer
We have the same clowns, probably more, here in this country.
We are at the very beginning of a fascist movement that will make the last one look like child's play. These kind of angry old men, thinking they'll come out on top, have planned the failure of democracy for a long time. Their ignorant followers will get their comeuppance as will they, but not before they bleed the world first. Life is durable but civilization is fragile.
"How can it really surprise us that this world is the realm of chance, error, and folly that cripples wisdom, that wickedness acts therein with unrestrained violence, and every reflected splendor of the eternal finds a place only by accident and is, on the other hand, suppressed a thousand times? How, I say, can this surprise us, for indeed this very world (i.e., our empirical, sensuous, and rational consciousness in space and time) has its origin only through that which, according to the utterance of our better consciousness , ought not to be, but is the wrong direction from which virtue and asceticism are the return journey and, in consequence of this, a peaceful death is the release, like that of ripe fruit from the tree, and Plato ( Phaedo ), therefore, calls the entire life of the “sage a long time dying,” i.e., a breaking away from such a world?"
Artie Schopenhauer
2
Given the increasing diversity of human cultures, globalization is absurd.
6
So, by your own accord, the EU has bungled mostly everything, but you expected them to suddenly change. They remind me of our useless United States congress, and I think the result in the coming election will be the same. Also, have some respect for your elders, I used to think I was the smartest person in the room as well...until I grew up.
14
When I read infuriating articles like this, from arrogant elitists who haven't a clue, it is satisfying to rank the comments by Reader Picks. That's where the wisdom is. Too bad the authors and the NYT are so un-self reflective, so far removed from the reality of those who are victimized by "free trade," open borders, and war--the projects of the selfish elite who amass all the benefits.
Thanks, niglea, for the "washable" video which tells us so much.
Thanks, niglea, for the "washable" video which tells us so much.
17
Having been born in 1973 you can not recall a time in your life when the middle class was prosperous and growing. All the angry old men in Europe and the USA do remember.
13
I don't know what the Brexit voters were thinking, but I know how I feel. I'm old; on SSI and teeny pension; and I feel like the country is leaving me behind. Everything costs more and more; can't get a burger for $5 any more; utilities going up; can't park the RV I live in anywhere for less than $30/night; younger friends can't get jobs over $10/hr despite college; no-one without a corporate job can get health care, despite Obamacare. I think all the gov't statistics are measuring the health of the top 10% and the rest of us are throw-aways. No wonder the Trumps and the Farages' of the world have such appeal. Governments everywhere have long since quit caring about anyone without a million dollars/euros/pounds/sheckles to share with them.
25
The elephant in the room: the refugees are a consequence of ME wars that started with the terrorist attack on the Twin Towers and US occupation of Afghanistan and our failed attempt to run it "our way". Then Iraq - a disastrous US War with the Coalition of the Willing Euros. The Arab Spring, which the West interpreted as a desire to remodel nations based on Western principles: one success and many failed states and ISIS. Now Russia and Turkey are involved.
The ME has to be stabilized and it needs a Marshall Plan.
The fight is not just for the soul of Europe, it is a fight for the soul of America as well. It is also a fight for a fairer economic model than the punitive neoliberal model that has badly damaged ordinary people in the USA, in South America, in Africa and in Europe. Globalized corporations setting rules for their own benefit needs to become a global economy. Is that even possible?
If only there were signs of thinking big.
The ME has to be stabilized and it needs a Marshall Plan.
The fight is not just for the soul of Europe, it is a fight for the soul of America as well. It is also a fight for a fairer economic model than the punitive neoliberal model that has badly damaged ordinary people in the USA, in South America, in Africa and in Europe. Globalized corporations setting rules for their own benefit needs to become a global economy. Is that even possible?
If only there were signs of thinking big.
6
The French once had the solution for the angry old men - the guillotine.
2
Jochen is foaming-at-the-mouth ageist. Sounds like Euro-leftists are hateful bigots with nothing but contempt for anyone who dares not to worship same deities they do.
21
I suppose, as a 65 year-old white American, a full-fledged baby-boomer, that I should be offended by the tone of this article... but I'm not. Remember, fellow Boomers, when we were going to change the world? Remember when peace, love and happiness was our bywords, our songs? When money didn't matter and you never trusted anyone over 30? And remember how we found out these concepts were great in theory, but that when you grew up, you needed a job to put food on the table and a roof over your head?
Well, we got older, and we forgot the we were young and idealistic once, and we really liked the money and the power that our generation had assumed. We said that we wanted our kids to have a better life than we did, but now that we are old, well, they'd better get in line, they'd better not change things, they'd better not learn how to deal with a changing world. They'd better not try to get along and expand their world. For all the "I'd like to teach the world to sing in perfect harmony" moments our age group espoused in 1973, we are much happier now with the "me, me, mine" Trumpism of 2016, and be suspicious, very suspicious of, well, everyone and everything.
As much as anything, Brexit and Trump really represent a divide between Millennials and Boomers, urban and country, and a suspicion of higher-educated people fostered by the likes of Trump, himself admittedly highly-educated but using those without benefit of the same for his own purposes.
So... Brexit.
So... Trump.
Well, we got older, and we forgot the we were young and idealistic once, and we really liked the money and the power that our generation had assumed. We said that we wanted our kids to have a better life than we did, but now that we are old, well, they'd better get in line, they'd better not change things, they'd better not learn how to deal with a changing world. They'd better not try to get along and expand their world. For all the "I'd like to teach the world to sing in perfect harmony" moments our age group espoused in 1973, we are much happier now with the "me, me, mine" Trumpism of 2016, and be suspicious, very suspicious of, well, everyone and everything.
As much as anything, Brexit and Trump really represent a divide between Millennials and Boomers, urban and country, and a suspicion of higher-educated people fostered by the likes of Trump, himself admittedly highly-educated but using those without benefit of the same for his own purposes.
So... Brexit.
So... Trump.
6
Why has Globaliztion and macro-economics failed?
Greed.
The rich, powerful and elite 100 years ago realized their best interest was in a healthy happy, educated, and growing middle class. It was called the "social contract".
A seriously doubt Nigel Farage, Donald Trump, or Hillary Rodham Clinton could recognize a member of the middle class if he/she fell on them.
Greed.
The rich, powerful and elite 100 years ago realized their best interest was in a healthy happy, educated, and growing middle class. It was called the "social contract".
A seriously doubt Nigel Farage, Donald Trump, or Hillary Rodham Clinton could recognize a member of the middle class if he/she fell on them.
2
What an incredibly wrong-headed article. The author doesn't address any of the massive corruption at the EU. He is deep in denial.
11
In fact, if you compare number of the people in UK who are 18-24 and those who are 50-64, you will find that older group is more than twice as numerous as the young. So using percentage skewing the picture badly.
6
Although not stated, the real moral of this op/ed is that young people need to get out and vote. Here in the U.S. we have a candidate for the highest office in the land, whose blatant racism, sexism, xenophobia, mixed with incredible ignorance of anything and everything about actual governing threatens the future of not only the U.S., but the world. Young people, you must vote to stop this petty, ignorant tyrant from from getting anywhere near the White House.
18
Funny, not one word about the role of another angry old man, Wolfgang Schäuble and the totally anti-democratic crushing of the sovereign will of the peoples of Greece and Cyprus. That did wonders for the EU's reputation among working people throughout the regions, sending out the clear message that Europe exists for corporations (banks, especially) first and foremost and protecting moneyed interests against any claims from the victims of the ensuing austerity.
Scháuble and Merkel bear as much responsibility for this debacle as does anyone in the UK.
Scháuble and Merkel bear as much responsibility for this debacle as does anyone in the UK.
29
Simplistic non sequitur bordering on silly.
We are hardwired for survival, not politics. Keeping out radical-Islamist terrorists, whose stated goal is to kill all infidels—I assume that would include you too, Jochen—is about survival, not xenophobia.
The radical-Islamist terrorists have declared they are seeding the diaspora with them. And they are. Look around you.
The current heads of the FBI & CIA, various secretaries of defense—D & R, Homeland Security secretary, Dir. of National Intelligence, etc, warn that we are unable to vet the refugees as there exists no documentation.
And Mateen clarifies this: children of non-assimilating, radical-Islamist refugees are raised as radical Islamists. Allowing entry to non-assimilating, radical-Islamist refugees creates exponentially increasing risk, witness Europe. We have convicted ~ 400 "refugees" and children of "refugees" for terrorist acts.
For a glimpse into a (God forbid) Clinton presidency, simply look at Europe.
The unmitigated gall. Clinton, the cause, with Obama, of the unleashing of ISIS & its genocidal rampage with the resultant global destabilization & diaspora, wants to increase Obama's reckless refugee policy by orders of magnitude. Outrageousness is a corrupt Clinton's first line of defense.
The Brexit vote foreshadows our election. It was a vote against The Kleptocracy—the Clintons are its embodiment—and a vote for security/sovereignty/economy, which the Clintons auction off routinely, and with impunity.
21
Blame it on William Shakespeare:
“This royal throne of kings, this sceptred isle,
This earth of majesty, this seat of Mars,
This other Eden, demi-paradise,
This fortress built by Nature for herself
Against infection and the hand of war,
This happy breed of men, this little world,
This precious stone set in the silver sea,
Which serves it in the office of a wall
Or as a moat defensive to a house,
Against the envy of less happier lands,--
This blessed plot, this earth, this realm, this England”
William Shakespeare, "King Richard II", Act 2 scene 1
Soon to be known as Not-So-Great Britain
“This royal throne of kings, this sceptred isle,
This earth of majesty, this seat of Mars,
This other Eden, demi-paradise,
This fortress built by Nature for herself
Against infection and the hand of war,
This happy breed of men, this little world,
This precious stone set in the silver sea,
Which serves it in the office of a wall
Or as a moat defensive to a house,
Against the envy of less happier lands,--
This blessed plot, this earth, this realm, this England”
William Shakespeare, "King Richard II", Act 2 scene 1
Soon to be known as Not-So-Great Britain
3
"He started by asking the students in the lecture hall to imagine how many of them would actually be sitting there if this were the year 1945. About half of you would be dead, Mr. Schulz said, as his index finger drew a line across our heads, and many others would be crippled and wounded.""
1945 wouldn't have been 1945 without the Great Depression aka the looting of western countries by the .01%. One would've thought they would've learned something and curb their greed, but apparently they didn't learn zilch.
1945 wouldn't have been 1945 without the Great Depression aka the looting of western countries by the .01%. One would've thought they would've learned something and curb their greed, but apparently they didn't learn zilch.
6
Idiotic ignorant, angry, trigger-happy people want targets to blame, as if life is only a shooting gallery. They do not think, and have no solutions to problems. A pathetic situation.
4
Angry old men, who have made their angry old children unemployed---there is a difference between being angry and being smart angry--this is dumb angry.
3
Ah, "angry entitled old white man" theme much beloved of NYT" cut and paste from the USA to Europe! But wait - 30-50% Youth unemployment Spain, Greece, France and Italy courtesy of globalism, EU, Troika of Finance Ministers and Euro. Britain go for democracy, many in Europe look on in envy.
7
I have been educated again. I did not realize 51+% of England were angry men. Makes me wonder about the other 49%.
6
If European unity is the ultimate goal, why did Great Britain fight against the Third Reich; they were, after all, doing quite a good job of unifying it.
2
Brexit and the Nigel Farages of the world, including Trump and LePens and even Sanders are the symptom of the "downsides of globalization" not the cause of the rise of right wing irrationality. The cause of an incendiary political ascendancy is the discontent of millions of marginalized and globalized citizens in every advanced country in the world AND the willingness of the political status quo to view those souls as statistically left for dead or dying quietly on the battlefield of globalization.
MEMO to the status quo: The marginalized are on the verge of burning down the village. Nigel got the memo, It was Blair, Cameron Brown, Bush Clinton etc. who had the power and who did not lift a finger to comfort the statistical cannon fodder in their countries. It was not Nigel. Blaming him is just another symptom of our willingness to look elsewhere for the cause.
MEMO to the status quo: The marginalized are on the verge of burning down the village. Nigel got the memo, It was Blair, Cameron Brown, Bush Clinton etc. who had the power and who did not lift a finger to comfort the statistical cannon fodder in their countries. It was not Nigel. Blaming him is just another symptom of our willingness to look elsewhere for the cause.
8
What, pray tell, "enlightened, rational tradition of Europe" does Bittner have in mind? Is it Nazism, the Holocaust and the Third Reich? Or Spanish inauguration of the Atlantic/African slave trade? Or Italian Fascism? World War I or World War II? Srebrenica? Ethnic cleansing in the former Yugoslavia? Burning and murdering millions of women as witches so the Church could seize their assets? The trial and imprisonment of Galileo? Beliefs that creation is ruled by an old white man sky-god who punishes humanity because a talking snake persuaded Eve to eat an apple? Centuries of perpetual warfare? European colonial powers pillaging Africa? Europeans slaughtering the native Americans? A rational enlightened Europe is a myth.
Complex and numerous factors figured in the Brexit vote: Aversion to rule by unelected elites; Germany's unilateral decision to open its borders, without regard to the consequences for its EU neighbors; Concerns about the EU becoming a permanent home to over a million migrants (not refugees) who decided to move & let EU citizens to foot the bill, who resist assimilating, and insist Europeans unquestioningly accept their sexist culture.
The vote says NO to the 1%'s One World Economic Order, NO to global homogenization, NO to destruction of our communities by multinational corporations gone mad: outsourcing, offshoring & importing of foreign labor; NO to politicians, elite academics & gobbledygook economists wreaking dire havoc on our towns and homes.
Complex and numerous factors figured in the Brexit vote: Aversion to rule by unelected elites; Germany's unilateral decision to open its borders, without regard to the consequences for its EU neighbors; Concerns about the EU becoming a permanent home to over a million migrants (not refugees) who decided to move & let EU citizens to foot the bill, who resist assimilating, and insist Europeans unquestioningly accept their sexist culture.
The vote says NO to the 1%'s One World Economic Order, NO to global homogenization, NO to destruction of our communities by multinational corporations gone mad: outsourcing, offshoring & importing of foreign labor; NO to politicians, elite academics & gobbledygook economists wreaking dire havoc on our towns and homes.
21
Mr. Bittner, you wrote: "We — the young, optimistic millions across Europe — cannot lose the West to Mr. Farage and his ilk, to demagogues who have actually much more in common with the scapegoating culture of the Arab world they so despise than with the enlightened, rational tradition of Europe."
Frankly sir, it seems that Messrs Farage, Wilders, and Le Pen have all too much in common with that other 'tradition of Europe', which you conveniently fail to acknowledge: Fascism and minority scapegoating. To be sure, the long term damage wrought by Brexit no one knows. But what everyone now clearly sees, is the economic anxiety of aging, marginalized, less educated populations who've felt as collateral damage in the grand project that is globalization -- currently in the form of the EU. If Britons like you truly seek to push back against this rising tide of demagoguery, then perhaps Europe should begin by developing realistic strategies to address the refugee crisis, construct new labor market policies, and earnestly integrate Muslim immigrants rather than continuing the status quo of their ghettoization. The Arab world doesn't hold the monopoly on demagoguery. But the West, more than any other region, has the weight of history on its side in forcing it to develop lasting institutions that can obviate the desire to re-visit isolationism and xenophobia.
Frankly sir, it seems that Messrs Farage, Wilders, and Le Pen have all too much in common with that other 'tradition of Europe', which you conveniently fail to acknowledge: Fascism and minority scapegoating. To be sure, the long term damage wrought by Brexit no one knows. But what everyone now clearly sees, is the economic anxiety of aging, marginalized, less educated populations who've felt as collateral damage in the grand project that is globalization -- currently in the form of the EU. If Britons like you truly seek to push back against this rising tide of demagoguery, then perhaps Europe should begin by developing realistic strategies to address the refugee crisis, construct new labor market policies, and earnestly integrate Muslim immigrants rather than continuing the status quo of their ghettoization. The Arab world doesn't hold the monopoly on demagoguery. But the West, more than any other region, has the weight of history on its side in forcing it to develop lasting institutions that can obviate the desire to re-visit isolationism and xenophobia.
5
I wonder if Einstein would have been receptive to a recommended revision. He wrote, "Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind." Perhaps it would have been better if he had written, "It's the chickenpox of children" -- since the virus can apparently reactivate (especially in the elderly) as shingles.
2
One lesson that American voters, especially the young, should learn from the Brexit results is that casting your vote really does matter. The split in the result show two very clear trends. First, those who will suffer the long-term consequences (the young) were overwhelmingly against Brexit. Second, the young were the least likely to vote. The numbers suggest that, had the young turned out in the same percentage as the old, the results would have been reversed.
4
"These politicians — men and women, to be sure — are young enough not to have experienced world war, but they are old enough to idealize the pre-1989 era and a simpler, pre-globalization world. ........With their aggressive posturing, these Nigel Farages, Marine Le Pens, Geert Wilderses and Donald J. Trumps are driving the debate — and possibly driving the West off a cliff."
No, these people are the monsters that the corporate media is creating. In the US, the ONLY reason why Trump got as far as he got was because he got literally non stop 24 / 7 coverage by every US corporate media outlet. On top of that, they did not vet him and when they did, did it with kid gloves. in the case of Fox News, they actually built him up and supported him. The result is Trump is in the general election. I would not be surprised if media in the UK owned by Murdoch somehow denigrated the EU and helped in getting the people to vote for this disaster for UK and the world. I firmly blame the media for most of the woes of what is going on.
No, these people are the monsters that the corporate media is creating. In the US, the ONLY reason why Trump got as far as he got was because he got literally non stop 24 / 7 coverage by every US corporate media outlet. On top of that, they did not vet him and when they did, did it with kid gloves. in the case of Fox News, they actually built him up and supported him. The result is Trump is in the general election. I would not be surprised if media in the UK owned by Murdoch somehow denigrated the EU and helped in getting the people to vote for this disaster for UK and the world. I firmly blame the media for most of the woes of what is going on.
5
little England will put more of a burden on the us, and become more dependent on the us. not an outcome to be wished by Americans or the English.
I am over 50. Sadly, it is my generation and older that are responsible for the rise of Trump, Brexit, and the rise of nativism worldwide. I thought that as we get older, we would have gained wisdom but that clearly is not so. Instead, many of us yearn for a return to the world of our youth that by all measures are less equal, less fair, less prosperous, and more dangerous. How can we forget that nuclear war was a constant threat? Today's world is not perfect but it is also one of the longest periods of prosperity and relative peace. We are the lucky generation mostly living through this period of prosperity without experiencing the devastation of the second world war. As the our parents pass away, the devastation of nativism and war fade from our collective memory. Spoiled by this period of prosperity but frightened by globalism, we selfishly seek to take the world back to that of our parent's generation at the expense of the young. I thought that we have learned generosity but that is not so. What give me hope is that the youths are solidly against this nativism sentiment and are more open and global in outlook. I have faith that even if my generation would succeed in shamefully taking the world back several decades, the young people have seen what a global, collaborative world can be and so it will be again. For the many of older folks who agree with me, do not go gently into the good night and we must fight to leave the world a better place for the next generation.
46
Nicely put, though I am not sure it is really just old men. This is really a fight of the anti-intellectual vs. thinking people. It is tempting to lash out, especially if you don't think you are being heard, and this anti-fact group is particularly susceptible to populist (or childish) influences. I don't think I would term it ideology, because I doubt the average voter does it for the "right," carefully thought out reasons. The latent bigotry makes anti-immigration positions attractive and gives them cover for their baser instincts.
I suspect this is what we are seeing in all the situation to which you allude. In the end, who will be hurt? Probably the younger generations that will be forced to live within the small, out-of-touch, world foisted on them by the thoughtless.
I suspect this is what we are seeing in all the situation to which you allude. In the end, who will be hurt? Probably the younger generations that will be forced to live within the small, out-of-touch, world foisted on them by the thoughtless.
I'd be careful, as a young Westerner, about contrasting "the scapegoating culture of the Arab world" with "the enlightened, rational tradition of Europe." Twentieth-century Europe offers quite adequate examples of scapegoating, no?
3
Experience and wisdom comes with age. The youth are hedonistic and only look at things from the perspective of their own pleasures. The Angry old Men have the understanding of the way things use to be and they want those days to return, the young have no frame of reference and have no clue that things were better once. The Ironic thing here that this was rebellion which is innate in youth and seldom seen in the old. Things are turned upside down.
4
This really is an unfortunate article. The EU monetary and national fiscal polices pursued since 2008 have thrown the young of Europe to the lions, but apparently Jochen has not suffered that fate or been aware of the suffering of his peers about him. The EU has demonstrated that it is incapable of building a future that actually includes the young. How could Jocehn not be aware of this?
7
Does the revelation that some British voters who voted to leave the EU did not even know what the EU actually stood for when they voted to leave?
Hello! History! And, yes. Capitalism gone amok is largely to blame along with US foreign policies, thanks.
But also, please: examine the Brit's higher education policies to realize why they are no longer the head of the class on critical thinking. The poor and lower-middle class were abandoned and now, tinkered with via lack of a solid education, they surrendered even more in the coup of the banker-gangsters.
Hello! History! And, yes. Capitalism gone amok is largely to blame along with US foreign policies, thanks.
But also, please: examine the Brit's higher education policies to realize why they are no longer the head of the class on critical thinking. The poor and lower-middle class were abandoned and now, tinkered with via lack of a solid education, they surrendered even more in the coup of the banker-gangsters.
It's easy to be optimistic during one's 'salad days'. Yet as one ages and has life experience pessimism sets in. Especially when you've worked like a dog your entire life and not only have very little to show for it but no security in health, home or other necessary things like food.
Simply many have paid into the system and are now getting short changed.
Call them angry because they've got very good reasons to be upset.
British culture is being turned on its head, after how years now that it's been in existence?
Simply many have paid into the system and are now getting short changed.
Call them angry because they've got very good reasons to be upset.
British culture is being turned on its head, after how years now that it's been in existence?
9
Guys...this isn't about nostalgia and racism. it's about something else that we supposedly hold in very high esteem--identity. In this case, it's the identity of the British. People are the same the world over when it comes to 'identifying' with their own people, so why should the Brits be any different? All those British period pieces on Masterpiece theater that we think are so cool? So do they, apparently. Globalization has always been a destroyer of cultures, and that's a real problem. On top of that, many Europeans seem to resent the apparent double standard that academics and policy makers apply. If a European acts in an un-PC way, he's called out. But if refugees do something wrong, they are not to be held responsible. Any critical remark you make is instantly decried by as Islamophobia. And while many of the "remainers" decry the imminent Fascist take over of W. Europe, what have they been doing to stop it? This is the real question to be addressed to folks like Mr. Bittner. It isn't like they weren't warned.
10
You are so confusing Trump with Hillary and Obama, two of the biggest traitors to the American people, much less Europe. Trump is for the American people who are pro Europe, unlike our fickle government who only care about out-powering the rest of the world
5
Jesus, Mr Bittner calm down... It is well know fact the EU is the dream that every young European desires, in fact, it has been so prosperous in the last 8 years that as a leisure activity it hides jobs and the young European have to find them, they have been really busy looking for them. Currently I am being told 50% of Spaniards and 51% of Greeks under 30 are looking for one, but the EU has done such a great job at hiding them. It's better to drop the rhetoric's, beside the article is full of grossly simplified truths, or false. All argument put forward by this article can easily be applied to both sides.
The best and worst thing about democracy is everyone gets one vote. I am not sure how this article was published by NYT considering that the title and the undertone of it is racist, sexist and ageist. Stereotypes are not ok, UNLESS, you are an old white man, in that case it is ok. As if being openly bigoted about old white man is completely fine because empirical evidence shows all white men are racist, angry, irrational; making it fine to diminish and underplay their vote and any other democratic freedoms earned throughout their life.
Sarcasm aside, I just do not see this article being published as "Angry Old Women", or "Angry Black Man" since they are baseless stereotypes but I guess it is fine if it says "Angry Old Man". The title also makes it sexist in that completely ignores, and denies, the weight of the female electorate that voted to leave...
The best and worst thing about democracy is everyone gets one vote. I am not sure how this article was published by NYT considering that the title and the undertone of it is racist, sexist and ageist. Stereotypes are not ok, UNLESS, you are an old white man, in that case it is ok. As if being openly bigoted about old white man is completely fine because empirical evidence shows all white men are racist, angry, irrational; making it fine to diminish and underplay their vote and any other democratic freedoms earned throughout their life.
Sarcasm aside, I just do not see this article being published as "Angry Old Women", or "Angry Black Man" since they are baseless stereotypes but I guess it is fine if it says "Angry Old Man". The title also makes it sexist in that completely ignores, and denies, the weight of the female electorate that voted to leave...
14
" We, the young, the future of Europe, must push back. Too much time has been lost already."
Mr Bittner's sentence above reminds me the 60's hippie expression " don't trust anyone over 30." Is a generational war under way in Western Europe?
In America, the 60s youngsters became the angry old white men of today. Trump voters.
Mr Bittner's sentence above reminds me the 60's hippie expression " don't trust anyone over 30." Is a generational war under way in Western Europe?
In America, the 60s youngsters became the angry old white men of today. Trump voters.
4
Like rats fleeing a sinking ship... these miserable, racist old men did more to precipitate these migration crises than any other contributing factor, not to mention inducing the global climate crisis with their fixation on fossil fuels. The Brexit is their punishment - let them spend the next decade watching their dwindling pension funds.
2
FAILURE OF DEMOCRACY
When the wealthy and powerful in a democracy fail to reduce poverty, joblessness, and ignorance among the masses, the masses can use that very democracy to revolt.
The voting of the old, rural, poor, and uneducated for Brexit in England shows the fearsome possibility of what Trump can command in the US.
The Republican Party, through its ideology of feeding on ignorance and avoiding poverty reduction programs has laid the seeds of its own destruction, and potentially the destruction of the American experiment. Trump, acting through self-aggrandizement, is only the messenger of the moment, caricaturing all the Republican party has stood for during the past few decades.
The Need for Public-Private Partnerships
Democratic governments must invest more heavily in job creation to reduce poverty and schools teaching critical thinking to avoid the acceptability of easy, populist solutions to social and economic problems.
To do so without raising taxes to the point where the wealthy revolt, they must find a way to incent the profitable investment of private wealth in public goods -- like schools, infrastructure and other job-creating, poverty-eliminating programs.
Brexit shows the result of failing to do so. It should serve as a warning to the wealthy in the US who have corrupted our political campaigns and enabled a Trump to harvest the seeds of populism they have planted.
When the wealthy and powerful in a democracy fail to reduce poverty, joblessness, and ignorance among the masses, the masses can use that very democracy to revolt.
The voting of the old, rural, poor, and uneducated for Brexit in England shows the fearsome possibility of what Trump can command in the US.
The Republican Party, through its ideology of feeding on ignorance and avoiding poverty reduction programs has laid the seeds of its own destruction, and potentially the destruction of the American experiment. Trump, acting through self-aggrandizement, is only the messenger of the moment, caricaturing all the Republican party has stood for during the past few decades.
The Need for Public-Private Partnerships
Democratic governments must invest more heavily in job creation to reduce poverty and schools teaching critical thinking to avoid the acceptability of easy, populist solutions to social and economic problems.
To do so without raising taxes to the point where the wealthy revolt, they must find a way to incent the profitable investment of private wealth in public goods -- like schools, infrastructure and other job-creating, poverty-eliminating programs.
Brexit shows the result of failing to do so. It should serve as a warning to the wealthy in the US who have corrupted our political campaigns and enabled a Trump to harvest the seeds of populism they have planted.
4
"Yet it is dangerously foolish to believe that, with or without Ms. Merkel’s policies, Europe can somehow shut its doors and ignore the pressing weight of the developing world on its borders "
There it is in a nutshell. A member of the elite telling us that allowing immigrants and refugees into their country is somehow good for us. And if you don't agree with him, then you are a hatemonger, a right winger, an angry old man, an uneducated loser or some other derogatory class. It didn't work in England and it won't work in the rest of Europe (or the United States).
There it is in a nutshell. A member of the elite telling us that allowing immigrants and refugees into their country is somehow good for us. And if you don't agree with him, then you are a hatemonger, a right winger, an angry old man, an uneducated loser or some other derogatory class. It didn't work in England and it won't work in the rest of Europe (or the United States).
10
We are left with the detritus of Western culture which has been dominated and run into the ground by anxious, angry, or whatever old white men for hundreds of years. A change will and must come. It's simply a matter of time
1
What do the demolition experts expect will flow from the disintegration of the EU? Every nation for itself?
How did that approach work out in Europe during the 1500 years since Rome?
How will every nation looking out for its own parochial interests help solve global problems like climate change or stateless terrorism?
The lack of vision in people like Farage and Johnson is breathtaking.
How did that approach work out in Europe during the 1500 years since Rome?
How will every nation looking out for its own parochial interests help solve global problems like climate change or stateless terrorism?
The lack of vision in people like Farage and Johnson is breathtaking.
6
England, Europe, and the United States need immigrants given their population's low birth rates.The angry nativist in all these countries advocate policies that will only lead to their own demise.
6
When bluster makes headlines, when fear overtakes reason and when some in the media profile only the sensational instead of the facts, this is where it will lead - strife between countries and generations.
4
People do not want thousands of immigrants being dumped on their countries. Taxpayers must pay for the education, hospitalization, old age, and all other social programs that these people will eventually need. People age and that factor dismisses independence and the ability to work. Americans have worked hard all of their lives for themselves and their families. They do not/did not intend to be supporting people from around the world who are here illegally because the democrats want more votes and will promise "freebies."
12
All this prattle of the old being concerned for future generations, actually demonstrates they can be as narrow and self-serving as any other group. It is always valuable in the postmortem to dissect the vote and see where the primary momentum of the leave movement originated from. Apparently the old in Britain are not willing leave the stage gracefully. Instead the inheritance they leave their grandchildren is to tie an economic grindstone around their neck. Quite a departure from the "Greatest Generation" who sacrificed life and limb to ensure the dark shadow of racism did not overtake Europe.
2
Bittner just repeats the old promises --- this time we'll reform it. Really, really. Sorry, after decades of false EU promises, people realize it is structurally incapable of
meaningful reform. It is fatally flawed in conception.
meaningful reform. It is fatally flawed in conception.
8
Mr. Bittner has correctly identified the problem. However, his solution of "we must push back" will engender more of the same. His solution should be "we must change how the EU works to address these questions, and convince the electorate of our members that the EU is in their best interests rather than the interests of those who run the EU from Brussels."
3
I'm sorry it happened, too. But, then again, I'm sorry for 2008, when the biggest fraud in world history put a permanent bitter taste in the very people who voted for separation. What did they expect? More of David Cameron's austerity program, aimed at the very people who were hurt the most by the fraud? More of the European Union ignoring countries like Greece and Portugal, bringing unemployment rates in those countries to record highs? This is the downtrodden's revenge to be sure. And as stupid as it might be, there must be a sense of satisfaction among the uneducated and uninformed that they won. For a change.
11
"If, for instance, European internal migrants really have lowered the wages in Britain, this is a serious problem. But it can be dealt with through, say, stricter control of the labor market — not abandonment of the entire framework for European cooperation."
Oh please, what did you think Cameron was doing in Brussels? He was trying to negotiate for stricter controls on the labor market. Instead he got laughed at by the EU and was sent back to the UK empty handed. You can't now be saying "oh we could have just reformed" when the EU bureaucrats did nothing when there was still time to prevent Brexit. It was clear to many British people that short of abandoning the project wholesale, nothing was going to change. The EU bureaucracy was not going to budge.
Oh please, what did you think Cameron was doing in Brussels? He was trying to negotiate for stricter controls on the labor market. Instead he got laughed at by the EU and was sent back to the UK empty handed. You can't now be saying "oh we could have just reformed" when the EU bureaucrats did nothing when there was still time to prevent Brexit. It was clear to many British people that short of abandoning the project wholesale, nothing was going to change. The EU bureaucracy was not going to budge.
4
It's important to take a deep breath and see just how this falls out. It's interesting to note that Scotland and N. Ireland voted overwhelmingly to stay with the EU so as jolly old England and Wales further diminish in importance, these countries will most likely move for their independence from the UK. So be it.
1
For those who were nearly drowned in the wake of the global financial crisis the Brexit vote represents a desperate roll of the dice and few had considered the outcome, they just felt that it could hardly get worse. Like Trump voters. I couldn't agree more with this article, how can we (the relatively young 1974) let these angry old men manage our future? It has to come down to more equitable income distribution and reconnection with those who feel that politics had left them behind and are railing against false enemies thanks to Farage and co's poisonous rhetoric.
4
"It was a victory for people who have neither the guts nor the imagination to take on the downsides of globalization. Yes, globalization and Europeanization have taken their tolls, both on traditional forms of democracy and on traditional job security."
Or the means, stamina or hope of affording a home, an education or affordable healthcare even as Russian billionaires and Chinese millionaires buy up homes and unfettered immigration eats away at blue collar jobs.
Price of progress and evolution perhaps but don't expect the angry old men or the young with no prospects not to push back either. Their views matter too not just yours.
Or the means, stamina or hope of affording a home, an education or affordable healthcare even as Russian billionaires and Chinese millionaires buy up homes and unfettered immigration eats away at blue collar jobs.
Price of progress and evolution perhaps but don't expect the angry old men or the young with no prospects not to push back either. Their views matter too not just yours.
6
Might you be open minded enough to consider that maybe the older voters who voted to leave are not xenophobic, reactionary and, well, just old, but instead experienced enough to see that the current policies are leading to disasterous internal conflicts between cultures that cannot be reconciled within the boundaries of one nation?
6
Hmmm... I don't see problems in Iceland, Switzerland, or Norway who are not officially in the EU. So what's the big deal? The only thing the EU had to offer the UK before the votes was threats of horrible and harsh financial consequences lest they vote to remain. The EU's response to every country in crisis or doubt is, "the beatings will continue until morale improves".
5
Do these two points go together?
--Brexit will damage the economy.
--The economy greatly benefits the higher income at the expense of the lower.
If they're either true or believed then lower income people should vote to change the economy that hurts them. Regardless, an argument that Brexit will hurt the economy would not have the myopically expected Remain effect.
But I'm not British, was that why people ignored the economic threat?
--Brexit will damage the economy.
--The economy greatly benefits the higher income at the expense of the lower.
If they're either true or believed then lower income people should vote to change the economy that hurts them. Regardless, an argument that Brexit will hurt the economy would not have the myopically expected Remain effect.
But I'm not British, was that why people ignored the economic threat?
There seems to be so many apologista articles written to find that fatal flaw with those who don't favor a neoliberal agenda and in Britain vote hat "leave"...but very few articles that want to openly discuss the very real problems with the EU government and its inability to be beholden to and address the concerns and problems of the people.
I think the EU, like Marx's communism was a great economic theory that failed to work in reality because it refused to recognize the need for self determination of the people it tried to rule
I think the EU, like Marx's communism was a great economic theory that failed to work in reality because it refused to recognize the need for self determination of the people it tried to rule
7
Jochen Bitter, the author of this piece, uses this argument: "Some 64 percent of the age group from 18 to 24 said they would vote for Remain".
I'm sorry -- but how very naive it is to assume that 18 to 24 year olds understand much about the politics, history, and the direction we should be taking as nations. I remember when I was 18 to 24 years old (and even 10 years older) -- and back then I really didn't have the larger perspective, or experience or wisdom, to understand and interpret those complex issues.
The elites that want to do away with nation states have suffered a major setback because of the Brexit. They are now grabbing at straws to save their faces. They believe they have a chance to prevail because young people are with them. Keep dreaming, Mr. Bittner. Most people change their political views as they get older and begin to understand more about the world.
I'm sorry -- but how very naive it is to assume that 18 to 24 year olds understand much about the politics, history, and the direction we should be taking as nations. I remember when I was 18 to 24 years old (and even 10 years older) -- and back then I really didn't have the larger perspective, or experience or wisdom, to understand and interpret those complex issues.
The elites that want to do away with nation states have suffered a major setback because of the Brexit. They are now grabbing at straws to save their faces. They believe they have a chance to prevail because young people are with them. Keep dreaming, Mr. Bittner. Most people change their political views as they get older and begin to understand more about the world.
10
Mr. Bittner missed the entire point of the Brexit exercise. It wasn't about the EU at all. It was a protest vote against a government that had failed it's citizens and clearly had no intention of mending it's ways. The demagogues were only the face of that anger. They had nothing to do with the outcome. Voters listened to no one. They knew that the government had given their shot at a future to the City, and weren't having it any more. It was a revolution. Long live the UK!!
3
A simple majority for such a major decision is ridiculous. Compare this to amending the US Constitution, just to change the second amendment requires a super majority of states and that is not as big of a change as this. If they revoted today the outcome could easily be to stay.
2
Why would a 50% majority win when this is clearly a "constitutional" issue? A 60% majority should, and typically is required when determining changes to a governments' constitution.
To allow the entire future of a nation be decided by a referendum is silly, and very dangerous to the concept of democracy.
fwa
To allow the entire future of a nation be decided by a referendum is silly, and very dangerous to the concept of democracy.
fwa
3
The EU was a solution to a problem that no longer exists. The CIA was the real father of the EU and funded its' establishment in the 1950s and 1960s. Why? The CIA believed that in the next war with the Russians it would be much easier for central command and control to have a unified economic and military power guided by the USA. These documents are now in the public domain if anyone wants to read them. And after WWI and WWII the Europeans were willing to sacrifice sovereignty if it meant no more bloodbaths. But the two wars were fights over empire and those days are long gone and Russia is much weaker militarily than the USSR so what purpose does it serve? NATO 's mission is also questionable because of these changes. The existing political and economic systems have to change to reflect a changing world and this is why there is so much discord in the world.
20
Mr Bittner is out of touch. Ms Merkle has only one thing in mind regarding taking in huge numbers of immigrants, she needs low cost workers to power her auto and machinery industries and because German population is much older and the younger population is educated and will not be entering industrial sector at home.
Britain sees itself differently, it always has and it's geography has helped it. Know that Brexit is not necessarily all about immigration causing the issue to the fore but it a weird way it is but not what you think. If British are accused of being tired of losing their British identity (white that is) that is not the immigration issue that concerns the voters but rather this little spoken about thoughts on immigration: Most if not all British commonwealth nations where British subject have long familial ties from their extensive colonial history, the EU does not allow immigration to Britain from these commonwealth countries in the numbers that the citizens would like their extended families to enjoy or even sponsor to live in Britain. But an uneducated laborer from Portugal can travel with impunity to Britain, but a British citizen cannot have a sibling of Canadian citizenry join them in England. So thinking deeper and not just the elitist or rich in the financial industry or Mayfair real estate sectors by visiting flight capital or despots of the world, British citizenry recognized that they needed to dial it all back.
Britain sees itself differently, it always has and it's geography has helped it. Know that Brexit is not necessarily all about immigration causing the issue to the fore but it a weird way it is but not what you think. If British are accused of being tired of losing their British identity (white that is) that is not the immigration issue that concerns the voters but rather this little spoken about thoughts on immigration: Most if not all British commonwealth nations where British subject have long familial ties from their extensive colonial history, the EU does not allow immigration to Britain from these commonwealth countries in the numbers that the citizens would like their extended families to enjoy or even sponsor to live in Britain. But an uneducated laborer from Portugal can travel with impunity to Britain, but a British citizen cannot have a sibling of Canadian citizenry join them in England. So thinking deeper and not just the elitist or rich in the financial industry or Mayfair real estate sectors by visiting flight capital or despots of the world, British citizenry recognized that they needed to dial it all back.
29
Between 1870 and 1939 France and Germany went to war three times. The short sighted and vindictive Treaty of Versailles, which ended WWI, when combined with the Great Depression, gave the world Hitler and WWII.
The German/French coal and steel agreement of the 1950's was entered into as a first mini-step to prevent yet another war between France and Germany grew into the 6 nation common market and the the EU.
The EU has grown into a tax eating 28-headed Hydra which consumes vast sums of member countries taxes and spews forth an endless stream of regulations. These regulations are written by unelected commissioners who are unaccountable to British or any countries voters. These regulations supersede acts of Parliament and the European Court of Justice orders are supreme over all UK courts.
The chance of another war between Germany and/or France and/or England is non-existent since they are strong democracies and the close trade links will continue.
An Op-Ed writer, Jochen Bittner, in this paper castigates the exit votes of old men. He is too politically correct to likewise criticize the exit votes of the old women who voted with their old men to leave.
The writer says he was born in 1973. In 1973 I was in the US Army in Germany, where I was for four years, defending western Europe from the Russian controlled Warsaw Pact.
In 1973, as it is today, the true threat to Europe is the Russian bear and not votes of old men exercising their rights on how they want to live.
The German/French coal and steel agreement of the 1950's was entered into as a first mini-step to prevent yet another war between France and Germany grew into the 6 nation common market and the the EU.
The EU has grown into a tax eating 28-headed Hydra which consumes vast sums of member countries taxes and spews forth an endless stream of regulations. These regulations are written by unelected commissioners who are unaccountable to British or any countries voters. These regulations supersede acts of Parliament and the European Court of Justice orders are supreme over all UK courts.
The chance of another war between Germany and/or France and/or England is non-existent since they are strong democracies and the close trade links will continue.
An Op-Ed writer, Jochen Bittner, in this paper castigates the exit votes of old men. He is too politically correct to likewise criticize the exit votes of the old women who voted with their old men to leave.
The writer says he was born in 1973. In 1973 I was in the US Army in Germany, where I was for four years, defending western Europe from the Russian controlled Warsaw Pact.
In 1973, as it is today, the true threat to Europe is the Russian bear and not votes of old men exercising their rights on how they want to live.
1
Once again, another inane article from a clueless elitist.
Not once does Mr. Bittner mention the three great issues of the late 20th, early 21st century:
an immense reallocation of manufacturing output from developed to undeveloped countries;
a fundamental transition in long term migratory patterns, as low skill low income migrants across the world increasing look to immigration to developed countries rather than education and investment in their native country of origin as their best option; and
an unparalleled reallocation of income and wealth to the richest 2-3% of the population.
All three considerations are reinforcing in a way that few if any economists understand (we're in unchartered waters here). Moreover, they're some reason to believe that entire process may gives rise to what professional economists used to refer to as "razor edge disequilibrium" (1930s economic thought used to describe a process that becomes increasingly destabilizing and worse over time.)
Do I know how this will turn out? No. Does anyone know how this will turn out? No. Yet, here we have some one such as Mr. Bittner pontificating on an issue he obviously knows very little about. He instead talks about xenophobia and intolerance, while promoting polices that could conceivably result in the very outcome he so fears.
If this occurs, history tells us that the people responsible will assuredly turn their back on those devastated by the outcome.
Not once does Mr. Bittner mention the three great issues of the late 20th, early 21st century:
an immense reallocation of manufacturing output from developed to undeveloped countries;
a fundamental transition in long term migratory patterns, as low skill low income migrants across the world increasing look to immigration to developed countries rather than education and investment in their native country of origin as their best option; and
an unparalleled reallocation of income and wealth to the richest 2-3% of the population.
All three considerations are reinforcing in a way that few if any economists understand (we're in unchartered waters here). Moreover, they're some reason to believe that entire process may gives rise to what professional economists used to refer to as "razor edge disequilibrium" (1930s economic thought used to describe a process that becomes increasingly destabilizing and worse over time.)
Do I know how this will turn out? No. Does anyone know how this will turn out? No. Yet, here we have some one such as Mr. Bittner pontificating on an issue he obviously knows very little about. He instead talks about xenophobia and intolerance, while promoting polices that could conceivably result in the very outcome he so fears.
If this occurs, history tells us that the people responsible will assuredly turn their back on those devastated by the outcome.
6
The person who wrote this seems to think that, without the EU, European nations would be at war with each other. What a dismal view of Europeans. I rather thought that the cold war had sobered up western Europe, and that the continued threat of nuclear annihilation from Russia is a constant reminder that Europe's internal quarrels pale in comparison to its larger threats. Add to that Europe's general prosperity and war seems unlikely regardless of the EU (except maybe in the Balkans). So lighten up - Europe will survive without Britain in the EU. War between Germany and France is extremely unlikely if France leaves the EU, not least because France has a formidable nuclear arsenal. So cheer up!
Reading the commentaries one gets the impression the British voters are all Robin Hoods stealing from the rich (global profiteers) in order to give to the poor (local victimized workers). Nothing can be more wrong. The "leave" campaign rested one a lie: the 350 Million pounds the British supposedly pay each week to the EU and the identity threatening influx of Eastern European workers. Slightly more than half of the population voted to leave because they are tight wads who don't want to share their wealth or xenophobic nationalists who feel their racial purity is under attack.
1
We are fortunate that the opportunity to vote for Brexit existed. Inequality in the days of the French Revolution made the streets run red with blood. As others have pointed out, the global and corporate elite have ignored countless opportunities to reduce income inequality, not to mention all the other issues that have been minimized or ignored. Global corporations poison our water, and pay pennies in fines, if that. They break labor laws with impunity, and consider fines for malfeasance, since the fines are so low, to be part of the cost of doing business. They refuse to pay taxes. They fund organizations to lie about the damages of climate change. And on and on. When the crash happened in 2007, the EU insisted upon austerity measures for years even though evidence showed austerity was hurting millions of people. Older people remember when the system was more fair, when a week's pay covered your bills, so yes, they are angry. When people are angry enough, ignored enough, yes, they will vote for burning down the mansions even if their house burns too because at least there is equality standing in the ashes together.
3
Bitter talks about "Europe's Angry Old Men" with angry words of his own. He writes,
"The angry old men will not be mollified, their xenophobia cannot be controlled or channeled into constructive cooperation. We, the young, the future of Europe, must push back."
But he oversimplifies. In fact, that is the problem with politics---it tends to simplify complicated issues, issues in which causes are unbelievably complex.
One factor is never discussed. In 1968, Paul Ehrlich argued that that overpopulation would gradually lead to declining living standards. His words were later amplified by a famous book called"Limits to growth."
The arguments were an update of Malthus, and amazingly robust. Exponential growth versus a finite planet brings about shortages and ultimately starvation.
People on both sides of the political spectrum scoffed. Yet China's leaders took the argument seriously and introduced a "one-child policy." None of the Western economists seem to have noticed that there might be a causal relationship between that policy and China's three decades of remarkably resurgence.
In India, by contrast one sees the starvation of which Ehrlich spoke.
And in Syria. Decades of large families led to shortage, then sectarian war, the rise of Assad, versus the disintegration of Isis.
Yet, Americans cannot see the connection. That's because the NY Times and others provide virtually complete censorship. Anybody who notices illegal immigration is declared RACIST.
"The angry old men will not be mollified, their xenophobia cannot be controlled or channeled into constructive cooperation. We, the young, the future of Europe, must push back."
But he oversimplifies. In fact, that is the problem with politics---it tends to simplify complicated issues, issues in which causes are unbelievably complex.
One factor is never discussed. In 1968, Paul Ehrlich argued that that overpopulation would gradually lead to declining living standards. His words were later amplified by a famous book called"Limits to growth."
The arguments were an update of Malthus, and amazingly robust. Exponential growth versus a finite planet brings about shortages and ultimately starvation.
People on both sides of the political spectrum scoffed. Yet China's leaders took the argument seriously and introduced a "one-child policy." None of the Western economists seem to have noticed that there might be a causal relationship between that policy and China's three decades of remarkably resurgence.
In India, by contrast one sees the starvation of which Ehrlich spoke.
And in Syria. Decades of large families led to shortage, then sectarian war, the rise of Assad, versus the disintegration of Isis.
Yet, Americans cannot see the connection. That's because the NY Times and others provide virtually complete censorship. Anybody who notices illegal immigration is declared RACIST.
5
Given the current state of communication technology, utilization of resources, and financial systems, globalization will continue to march on regardless of the politics of individual countries.
The pure economics of production will dictate that global markets will control the flow of capital and materials, finding the cheapest skilled labor to allow the greatest profit margin. Closing a society down to international trade will only allow the briefest of respites because no one national economy can isolate itself sufficiently to prevent the erosion which will collapse all barriers in the long run.
This reality leads to modern society's paradox - the only way for the libertarian individual to maintain their individual identity and a space of independent freedom to act is to embrace global social structures which can police and hold responsible the global capitalistic entities seeking to dominate capital, resources and power. Without such governmental entities, the "free market" will become monopolistic and totalitarian. Witness the oil cartels or more topically the mature IT firms which buy out competitors and startups.
So by trying to isolate themselves from globalization, "the angry old men" are accelerating the centralization of control by natural resource, IT, and financial monopolies. They will find their lives and finances dictated by not the potential neutral EEC, but by conglomerates in food, medicine, fuel, and banking who will milk every last pence.
The pure economics of production will dictate that global markets will control the flow of capital and materials, finding the cheapest skilled labor to allow the greatest profit margin. Closing a society down to international trade will only allow the briefest of respites because no one national economy can isolate itself sufficiently to prevent the erosion which will collapse all barriers in the long run.
This reality leads to modern society's paradox - the only way for the libertarian individual to maintain their individual identity and a space of independent freedom to act is to embrace global social structures which can police and hold responsible the global capitalistic entities seeking to dominate capital, resources and power. Without such governmental entities, the "free market" will become monopolistic and totalitarian. Witness the oil cartels or more topically the mature IT firms which buy out competitors and startups.
So by trying to isolate themselves from globalization, "the angry old men" are accelerating the centralization of control by natural resource, IT, and financial monopolies. They will find their lives and finances dictated by not the potential neutral EEC, but by conglomerates in food, medicine, fuel, and banking who will milk every last pence.
2
I think that one thing that has constantly been underplayed in this debate is the recent absence of US leadership and engagement in Europe. That absence has a lot of causes, some long term and others short term (the invasion of Iraq an obvious one), but the Obama administration has made it worse, which was something that I did not anticipate at the beginning of his presidency. If anything is clear from this, it is that European politicians like Merkel and Cameron, are more or less short term tacticians who have a lot of difficulty understanding how multiple events interact on the domestic and international stage in the short and long term. I think that more engagement from the US in Europe on a range of levels in the past year would have created boundaries for a place like the UK. And by engagement, I don't mean having ambassadors, bureaucrats, or 3 star generals show up - I mean public, open engagement at the very top. Please spare me the response about this being the Europeans' own business - they are our closest allies, we have an interest in their success, and we are a world power that is really the last line of defense out there against a lot of dark forces.
1
The only precedent to the EU -- of a politically united Europe -- is the Roman Empire, and we all know how that turned out. But the Roman Empire lasted centuries because at least it had a united vision and government.
I'd say the EU is structurally unsound and always has been. It deigns to treat nations (each of which has its own government, language, culture, history, and military) as though they were mere provinces -- administrative units -- simply because it binds them with a common currency and a set of policies and treaties drafted in Brussels.
It's as though it wanted to be a nation but in reality could not be because it lacks the attributes of nationhood.
I'd say the EU is structurally unsound and always has been. It deigns to treat nations (each of which has its own government, language, culture, history, and military) as though they were mere provinces -- administrative units -- simply because it binds them with a common currency and a set of policies and treaties drafted in Brussels.
It's as though it wanted to be a nation but in reality could not be because it lacks the attributes of nationhood.
2
Whither "the enlightened, rational tradition of Europe"?
Just think of the sacking of Greece, the euro crisis, the opaque negotiations for TTIP and CETA....
The actually existing EU functions more as a lobby for the creditor classes and tax-avoiding corporations, both represented very well by Juncker (previously responsible for Luxembourg's money-laundering business model), than as anything remotely related to "the enlightened, rational tradition of Europe".
The EU has perfected the art of scapegoating the poor and the disadvantaged,
while comforting the rich and the powerful. Life has been made easy for Farage, Wilders, etc to play the role of champions of some of the dispossessed against
"the others".
Unfortunately the EU will probably only double-down on its ways.
We can only cry for Europe.
Just think of the sacking of Greece, the euro crisis, the opaque negotiations for TTIP and CETA....
The actually existing EU functions more as a lobby for the creditor classes and tax-avoiding corporations, both represented very well by Juncker (previously responsible for Luxembourg's money-laundering business model), than as anything remotely related to "the enlightened, rational tradition of Europe".
The EU has perfected the art of scapegoating the poor and the disadvantaged,
while comforting the rich and the powerful. Life has been made easy for Farage, Wilders, etc to play the role of champions of some of the dispossessed against
"the others".
Unfortunately the EU will probably only double-down on its ways.
We can only cry for Europe.
4
Calm it. Calm it. no panic. This is only a temporary perturbation. There will shortly be a Scotland secession and Ireland will be a lead sponsor for its entry into the EU. Northern Ireland - not sure (a considerable Unionist faction denies evolution, favors intelligent design/creationism based on the earth shattering work of Dinesh D'Souza and others but they'll have England I suppose even if England doesn't want them). The Little Englanders will come to their senses. I'm being unfair - 74% of the young people (age 18-24) voted remain, a fantastic reflection on their generation. The EU is one of the greatest experiments in the history of humanity to enshrine fairness, humanity, democracy, transparency, human rights in the human endeavour - believe me, the EU will survive and a chastened England will be back in the fold within a decade. Marine Le Pen, Farage, the Austrian and Holland Fascist Right, the German Neo-Nazis - they will not define the future of Europe.
So unless you unquestionably support the movement of millions upon millions of culturally distinctive Third World residents into Europe you are a xenophobe? I think there might be a middle ground that's being missed.
Each nation has to be able to set its own immigration policy in accords with its own needs. Just because some nations are incredibly overpopulated and unable to provide employment and opportunity doesn't give the those residents the right to crash into another country without invitation. That's not immigration. That's invasion.
Each nation has to be able to set its own immigration policy in accords with its own needs. Just because some nations are incredibly overpopulated and unable to provide employment and opportunity doesn't give the those residents the right to crash into another country without invitation. That's not immigration. That's invasion.
8
They didn't have the guts to take on the "downsides" of globalization?? I really find the parade of "progressive" Chicken Littles hilarious. And despite the "polls" that say whatever the pollsters want them to say, this was not a vote of youth versus the old. It was a vote of common sense to protect youth from a perilous decline in British autonomy and more importantly, a developing European Metropolis, with the urban rich richer - producing very little I might add but doing a lot of virtual paper pushing, exploiting others' labor - while the rest of the population descended into poverty. It wasn't functioning, and it needed to end, and I hope the rest of European exits as quickly as possible so that all Europeans can enjoy a dignified life and a reasonable wage. Congratulations, Great Britain. The rough road will smooth out shortly, much to the chagrin of the Chicken Littles.
7
I don't deny the lamentable consequence of the concentration of wealth and power in the 1%. But there's a lot of sentimental fantasising going on in Britain about the excluded working class and their resentments. Time for some truths.
I taught in British schools in the 1970s, particularly in Leicester when it absorbed a huge influx of South Asians expelled from Uganda by Idi Armin. Many of these refugee children couldn't speak English on arrival, but were flourishing within 6 months. I saw with amazement that white males contrived to sink immediately to the bottom of every classroom they were in.
Why? Because they came from families that disdained education and thought the world owed them a living. They spurned the educational opportunities on offer (as their immigrant peers emphatically did not); they refused to acquire new skills as the world changed in the 1980s.
Spending 5 minutes in a polling booth every few years doesn't and won't change reality. As with Trump's supporters, being white, male, and left behind may make you resentful but it doesn't make your views any more valuable.
Lazy in school, lazy at work, petulant in old age (I'm Caucasian, in my 60s, from a working-class background, so these are my people, God help me. Thanks to my wonderful parents who drove their children to aspire for better and put in the effort).
What next, a referendum against robotics and automation?
I taught in British schools in the 1970s, particularly in Leicester when it absorbed a huge influx of South Asians expelled from Uganda by Idi Armin. Many of these refugee children couldn't speak English on arrival, but were flourishing within 6 months. I saw with amazement that white males contrived to sink immediately to the bottom of every classroom they were in.
Why? Because they came from families that disdained education and thought the world owed them a living. They spurned the educational opportunities on offer (as their immigrant peers emphatically did not); they refused to acquire new skills as the world changed in the 1980s.
Spending 5 minutes in a polling booth every few years doesn't and won't change reality. As with Trump's supporters, being white, male, and left behind may make you resentful but it doesn't make your views any more valuable.
Lazy in school, lazy at work, petulant in old age (I'm Caucasian, in my 60s, from a working-class background, so these are my people, God help me. Thanks to my wonderful parents who drove their children to aspire for better and put in the effort).
What next, a referendum against robotics and automation?
5
This piece drips with condescension and disdain for ordinary Brits, who (like ordinary Americans) love their country and enjoy Anglo-American laws and government: representative democracy embodying consent of the governed, rule of law, Free Speech and rights of dissent. The average Brit's attitude to Brussels bureaucracy is like the average American colonist's attitude toward King George III; they wonder why a comparatively advanced society should be ruled by a remote sovereignty, not elected and not responsible to the people who are the source of political power and legitimacy. How little responsible they are was made clear in Cologne when the "proper authorities" and their news media enablers concealed widespread rapes and sexual assaults by Middle Eastern migrants whom Germany had welcomed. (Such concealment persists in Scandinavia even now.) It's not that "elites like her didn't understand the consequences of their actions." That implies that a little dose of "I feel your pain" from Merkel is all that's needed.
The elites have demonstrated that they feel no need to protect their own people from the crime, economic dislocation and loss of national identity that their policies cause. The elites insulate themselves from these effects and use political correctness to suppress dissent. Their attitude to uncontrolled immigration through open borders would be different if politicians, lawyers and journalists were a majority of "undocumented immigrants".
The elites have demonstrated that they feel no need to protect their own people from the crime, economic dislocation and loss of national identity that their policies cause. The elites insulate themselves from these effects and use political correctness to suppress dissent. Their attitude to uncontrolled immigration through open borders would be different if politicians, lawyers and journalists were a majority of "undocumented immigrants".
10
Mr. Bittner's article is irresponsible. He dismisses the cancerous growth of an impenetrable bureaucracy in Brussels, the rules and regulations of which handed down ex cathedra have the effect of royal proclamations rather than law arrived at by democratic consensus as a mere glitch when he says globalization has taken its toll on traditional forms of democracy - is if such forms were to be lightly discarded as mere impediments to the ever expanding control of the 1% - which is what globalization largely amounts to. The "Mother of Parliaments" evolved over a thousand or more years as the benchmark of democracy and, argumentative, sometimes silly and a bit archaic though it may be, it is a very human institution and I have much more faith in it than I do in the faceless power brokers and money managers of the globalization prone EU. What is the EU but the new German Empire in financial form? How much longer does Mr. Bittner think Britain could have retained the pound and London's role as a financial leader as power flowed ever more to Frankfurt? Mr. Bittner's treatment of globalization as inevitable is only right if we are all willing to become serfs of the 1%. Evidently the British are not willing. Framing the conflict in generational terms is destructive and disingenuous.
9
Using words such as “angry old men” to describe those who disagreed with their political elites are akin to the tactics of the Donald Trumps’ and Geert Wilders of the world; they inflame and serve no useful purpose. The vote to leave the European Union is a failure of European Centrist governments to mitigate the social damages of neo-liberalism. As further evidence of the centrist’s failure to address the needs of their people the various “populist” movements have been coopted by radical and fear mongering politicians. This should be a wakeup call for the rest of the European democracies to forge a European Union that balances the needs of their citizens with those of financial markets.
4
Looking at the voting profiles in the Brexit referendum, it is not hard to see that the proponents of the Brexit who were mainly belonged to the past generations are still longing for the glorified days of the British Empire. And they believed that the European Union is keeping them from their Empire!! Little do these ignorant people know that they have started on a path to total irrelevance. While EU will continue its march to better and more prosperous future, the Brits will have to go it alone, will they make it? Scotland and Northern Ireland are already singing the Goodbye tune. Will England and Wales be all that shall remain from the once mighty British Empire? It is a sad state of affair and one that was brought about by the shear ignorance of the populace. And we thought only the Americans were ignorant.
34
Absolutely correct. This debate is very much about post-WW2 privileged baby boomers once again hijacking the rest of us in their driving selfishness. As a Gen Xer, I've often felt disenfranchised, and this time is no exception. They are too young to remember the disaster of WW2, and too old to be able to adapt to the new realities. In fact, I understand their reaction ... the West has been undermined by Globalization and the information technology revolution, and they are pulling the hand brake.
The trouble is, this world is complicated, and we do not solve anything with simple-minded solutions. The solutions must necessarily be complex as well. The appeal of someone who promises a return to a simpler time is strong. But it's too late for that. In their yearning for a simpler time, they have misdiagnosed the patient, and we will all have to suffer their mistakes.
The trouble is, this world is complicated, and we do not solve anything with simple-minded solutions. The solutions must necessarily be complex as well. The appeal of someone who promises a return to a simpler time is strong. But it's too late for that. In their yearning for a simpler time, they have misdiagnosed the patient, and we will all have to suffer their mistakes.
47
One cannot help but stand in awe of the stupidity of George W. Bush. His destablization of the Middle East put this whole chaotic mess in motion. Would people from the Middle East still be trying to immigrate into the EU? Of course, but in manageable numbers that could be properly absorbed.
Still, the frustration of Brexit supporters is understandable. While much of this vote was driven by immigration problems there is no doubt that Brussels has become an Imperial Puzzle Palace. Economic integration has undoubtedly been a boon but the governing authorities, like all good bureaucrats have grown well past the point of diminishing returns in terms of complexity, scope and number. The failure to respond to the financial crisis and the Greek debt crisis are but 2 clear indications that the governing structure is hoeplessly unwieldly and incapable of quick, decisive action.
Mr. Bittner is on to something, however. In both the United States and in the EU, we must learn to reform and streamline our institutions so that they work for all citizens. We also need to restructure our economies so that more people are able to work for and share in the economic gains.
If we fail to do so, there will be more Trump-like demagogues ready to tap into the populist angst and unleash some very dangerous forces. Venezuela is a pretty good preview of what that looks like and it is not pretty.
Still, the frustration of Brexit supporters is understandable. While much of this vote was driven by immigration problems there is no doubt that Brussels has become an Imperial Puzzle Palace. Economic integration has undoubtedly been a boon but the governing authorities, like all good bureaucrats have grown well past the point of diminishing returns in terms of complexity, scope and number. The failure to respond to the financial crisis and the Greek debt crisis are but 2 clear indications that the governing structure is hoeplessly unwieldly and incapable of quick, decisive action.
Mr. Bittner is on to something, however. In both the United States and in the EU, we must learn to reform and streamline our institutions so that they work for all citizens. We also need to restructure our economies so that more people are able to work for and share in the economic gains.
If we fail to do so, there will be more Trump-like demagogues ready to tap into the populist angst and unleash some very dangerous forces. Venezuela is a pretty good preview of what that looks like and it is not pretty.
63
During the Democratic primary, Edison exit polling showed Bernie beating Hillary 71-28 among young voters under 30. Bernie is strongly against our trade agreements as they are written, so I don't think that one can generalize what happened in the among young and old voters in the UK to whats happening in the US. Young people here may not view globalization in quite the same way as they do in the UK.
1
Even as an American I’m angry enough at the chaos into which I see the world descending – largely for the intensifying tribalism I’ve written about several times in this forum and Jochen deplores here.
Many are celebrating the Brexit vote, rationalizing that it will be better for Britain in the end, freer and open to a renewed ability for the British to evolve on their own terms. I’m not so sure.
First, “Britain” may be equivalent to ”England” soon enough. Scotland already is making noises about another referendum to secede from Britain; can Wales and Northern Ireland be far behind? For Northern Ireland, the logical alternative is finally to be reincorporated within an Eire that remains European and euro-based. This vote may eventually accomplish what hundreds of years failed to secure for Ireland despite the blood in which it’s drenched itself.
Then, it may be that commercial interests are such that Europe can’t dramatically hurt the Brits in retaliation, but when fully 50% of the goods and services your economy produces are traded with Euros, it won’t take many renewed barriers to cause Britain immense economic losses.
I blame the staid old men of Europe. Seeing as they did such energetic protests, of which Brexit was merely the most vocal, they did nothing to stand back and seek to fashion a more workable federalism on which they might rebuild closer integration in future. As a consequence, they may have condemned all of Europe to true tribalism.
Many are celebrating the Brexit vote, rationalizing that it will be better for Britain in the end, freer and open to a renewed ability for the British to evolve on their own terms. I’m not so sure.
First, “Britain” may be equivalent to ”England” soon enough. Scotland already is making noises about another referendum to secede from Britain; can Wales and Northern Ireland be far behind? For Northern Ireland, the logical alternative is finally to be reincorporated within an Eire that remains European and euro-based. This vote may eventually accomplish what hundreds of years failed to secure for Ireland despite the blood in which it’s drenched itself.
Then, it may be that commercial interests are such that Europe can’t dramatically hurt the Brits in retaliation, but when fully 50% of the goods and services your economy produces are traded with Euros, it won’t take many renewed barriers to cause Britain immense economic losses.
I blame the staid old men of Europe. Seeing as they did such energetic protests, of which Brexit was merely the most vocal, they did nothing to stand back and seek to fashion a more workable federalism on which they might rebuild closer integration in future. As a consequence, they may have condemned all of Europe to true tribalism.
3
Well stated Jochen. Here in America it is also a clash between old and young but in my estimation also a clash between the Brave in the Home of the Brave and the Cowards frightened by Fear Mongers using those "Others" aka non white males as scapegoats. Drumpf will not win here because too many of our citizens are learned and not easily scared of faux boogeymen. Make America Read again!
13
Once again we have an ivory tower writer blaming voters who elected to leave the EU calling them ignorant, xenophobic, and angry, while failing to understand the reasons for why they voted this way.
Bittner thinks that EU opponents should have done something about the immigration and economic problems affecting Great Britain. As if it was that simple. He fails to realize that the money and power to make changes has been concentrated in the hands of a few whose only desire is to maintain the status quo.
British citizens who voted in favor of leaving the EU were exercising what little power they have available to them to send a strong message that they are not happy with the direction political, business and media leaders are taking their country. They are smart enough to know that they will never be taken seriously unless they can influence the only thing that matters to the upper crust – their pocket books and wallets. If this means everyone has to endure some hardship for a little while until a more equitable economic and social plan can be developed, so be it.
It is clear that we are experiencing the first wave of what appears will be a sea change in social attitudes. The economic divide has become too wide and the hedge fund managers, bankers and global corporations that set policy and who continue to ignore these changes do so at their own peril.
Bittner thinks that EU opponents should have done something about the immigration and economic problems affecting Great Britain. As if it was that simple. He fails to realize that the money and power to make changes has been concentrated in the hands of a few whose only desire is to maintain the status quo.
British citizens who voted in favor of leaving the EU were exercising what little power they have available to them to send a strong message that they are not happy with the direction political, business and media leaders are taking their country. They are smart enough to know that they will never be taken seriously unless they can influence the only thing that matters to the upper crust – their pocket books and wallets. If this means everyone has to endure some hardship for a little while until a more equitable economic and social plan can be developed, so be it.
It is clear that we are experiencing the first wave of what appears will be a sea change in social attitudes. The economic divide has become too wide and the hedge fund managers, bankers and global corporations that set policy and who continue to ignore these changes do so at their own peril.
8
Maybe the reason why "young" British people voted to remain is that they are too young to know much about WWII. Their grandparents or great-grandparents who fought are gone now. And they don't realize that the EU is Germany's vehicle for finishing what they started in the last century: enslaving the rest of Europe.
6
"We the young, the future of Europe, must push back.
Dude.. seriously. You're 43 years old.
That's not young. You won't get into a youth Hotel.
You are OLD.
My daughter is 24, and she has a whole new media world of information available to her, and with great intelligence, sensitivity and insight they are responding to today's issues with rigour. But shey don't define the world by the old political designations that you do. Sorry ....cup of tea?
Dude.. seriously. You're 43 years old.
That's not young. You won't get into a youth Hotel.
You are OLD.
My daughter is 24, and she has a whole new media world of information available to her, and with great intelligence, sensitivity and insight they are responding to today's issues with rigour. But shey don't define the world by the old political designations that you do. Sorry ....cup of tea?
8
It is a tragedy that so many angry (I would also call them selfish, xenophobic, and illogical) old (and not so old) men (and women) are willing to gamble the futures of all of the rest of us on an illusion of greater independence and freedom. Unfortunately, this disease has taken root in countries all over the globe, but particularly in Europe and in the US.
I can only hope that those in the US who are complacent or ambivalent about the Presidential election this year listen to Mr. Bittner's insightful commentary.
I can only hope that those in the US who are complacent or ambivalent about the Presidential election this year listen to Mr. Bittner's insightful commentary.
4
Mike: do you disregard any legitimate reason for these angry hijackers? I hope not. What ideas do you offer to help them better their lives?
2
I'm an old man (60s) who would have voted to remain -- if I was a UK citizen. I agree with the writer that the future is for the people born in the last 45 years and not the old people. However, until the young take the time and trouble to vote, old people will continue to decide elections.
3
Merkels desire to be head of the UN when she leaves office led to her dangerous and destructive decision to flood the EU with unemployable, illiterate young men from third world countries. She put her own ambition first.
This is the consequence. No country can tolerate the resulting flood of refugees. Sweden now has the second highest incidence of rape in the world.
But this is not the way. It is bad for the economy. Better to have gotten rid of Merkel and the open door.
This is the consequence. No country can tolerate the resulting flood of refugees. Sweden now has the second highest incidence of rape in the world.
But this is not the way. It is bad for the economy. Better to have gotten rid of Merkel and the open door.
8
Americans need to sit up and take notice. The Brexit vote is a (very large) canary in the EU coal mine. The toxic atmosphere in the rest of Europe is ready to explode, the result of abysmally poor decisionmaking: Creating a common currency without a strong central bank, leaving Germany to hijack the Euro for its own benefit. Issuing endless Directives from Brussels, often disconnected from reality. And above all, violating the ethnic self-identity of member states by allowing large-scale immigration by populations that have no understanding of and little respect for Western social values. I lived in Europe for years; I have never seen such a pressure cooker of anger, even among educated elites, regarding out-of-control immigration, both legal and illegal.
We Americans ignore such anger at our peril. Already we have witnessed the rise of an angry, bigoted, nationalist, anti-immigration demagogue, chosen as a national party candidate by an angry, bigoted, nationalist, anti-immigration voter base. America has traditionally welcomed immigrants of every stripe, but it's one thing to be a melting pot in which we are all Americans, and quite another to behold a sizeable increase in the number of people who have no understanding of and little respect for basic American values. Our demagogue will likely go down in defeat, this time. But unless we figure out how do deal with the "American values" issue, more will rise in his place.
We Americans ignore such anger at our peril. Already we have witnessed the rise of an angry, bigoted, nationalist, anti-immigration demagogue, chosen as a national party candidate by an angry, bigoted, nationalist, anti-immigration voter base. America has traditionally welcomed immigrants of every stripe, but it's one thing to be a melting pot in which we are all Americans, and quite another to behold a sizeable increase in the number of people who have no understanding of and little respect for basic American values. Our demagogue will likely go down in defeat, this time. But unless we figure out how do deal with the "American values" issue, more will rise in his place.
18
The economic position of the bottom two-thirds of society in the developed world has gotten worse in the last forty years, and they want their politicians and institutions to be responsive to that.
9
The guy in the picture, Nigel Farage, is an ex-commodities trader. I'm sure he is looking out for the little guy, as is Donald Trump....
There was a large survey done in the last few years (in Australia) that showed the majority of 'young' people said they did not believe in democracy or the democratic vote. Unbelievable? It's true.
It might be that 'older' people have lived long enough to know that, even though they don't know everything, ideology isn't enough. Experience also counts for something. The European Union experiment hasn't succeeded, though it was a 'good idea'. When an unelected autocracy in Belgium tells Irish fishermen they cannot fish off their own coast but dictates who can, and that they will decide how many illegal immigrants will be allowed to enter any country, then maybe enough is enough. To equate the Brexit vote with Donald Trump is nonsense. Unless people can argue on facts, there's no debate. On a cost/benefit analysis the people of Britain have decided they want to preserve their sovereign state and that the cost of the European Union is too high for many reasons. Change is always difficult and the unknown frightening, but sometimes the cost of preserving the status quo is too high.
It might be that 'older' people have lived long enough to know that, even though they don't know everything, ideology isn't enough. Experience also counts for something. The European Union experiment hasn't succeeded, though it was a 'good idea'. When an unelected autocracy in Belgium tells Irish fishermen they cannot fish off their own coast but dictates who can, and that they will decide how many illegal immigrants will be allowed to enter any country, then maybe enough is enough. To equate the Brexit vote with Donald Trump is nonsense. Unless people can argue on facts, there's no debate. On a cost/benefit analysis the people of Britain have decided they want to preserve their sovereign state and that the cost of the European Union is too high for many reasons. Change is always difficult and the unknown frightening, but sometimes the cost of preserving the status quo is too high.
9
As far as I can tell, the “angry old man” who stands to profit the most is Vladimir Putin. The Brexit and consequent weakening of the European Union will make it that much easier to bring the former Soviet Republics back into the fold, especially if the U.S. is overextended in the Middle East and reduces its role in NATO as Donald Trump has already advocated.
So someone may indeed see a return to the “Good Old Days”, but I fear it will not be the West.
So someone may indeed see a return to the “Good Old Days”, but I fear it will not be the West.
7
I'll call the white elephant- Western values and Islamic values do not mesh, especially in an ethnically homogeneous nation like the U.K.
I'll place this very scenario in front of every American, pro-immigration liberal. Do you want YOUR neighborhood, your safe space, the place where your dog with separation anxiety accompanies you to the grocery store--- swarmed with Middle Eastern refugees? You say you don't mind- up until the point when they actually arrive. You are a bunch of hypocrites!
I'll place this very scenario in front of every American, pro-immigration liberal. Do you want YOUR neighborhood, your safe space, the place where your dog with separation anxiety accompanies you to the grocery store--- swarmed with Middle Eastern refugees? You say you don't mind- up until the point when they actually arrive. You are a bunch of hypocrites!
18
You ignore the fact that hundreds of thousands of Muslims live in the US, contribute to our society, pay their taxes, and so forth.
2
Try spending some time in New York City, the most dynamic and diverse place on earth -- a place we love BECAUSE of its diversity -- before you call those of us who aren't xenophobes or cowards hypocrites.
2
Except that many of the fears here were about Polish and Bulgarian, etc......
3
The EU could only succeed if it balanced neoliberalism with social democracy so that it worked for everyone and not just for society's winners. The sacrifice of the Greek people to save the banks when their massive gambling with other peoples’ money went sour, the trade treaties worked out in secret to serve the neoliberal agenda at the expense of everyone else, and, worst of all, the betrayal by the neoliberal leadership of formerly left parties like SPD, PSF, and Labour (pre-Corbyn), destroyed not only the balance but the perception of balance. Since Germany is the driving force behind the neoliberal austerian unbalancing of the old EU, Germans really to think hard before they once again bring ruin on Europe.
2
"We can still repair the damage done to democracy in our rush to move beyond national borders by admitting to the problems."
You can start by respecting the opposition, not calling them "angry old men" (I get that you're attempting to mitigate the insult by calling your mentors "anxious old men") and not acting as if a referendum, no matter what the outcome, is a blow to democracy. Take the high road, even if politicians from the Right don't. Don't fear-monger ("they're driving the West off a cliff"). Make your "brand" empathy, understanding, not Globalization Ueber Alles! Make an informed case for european integration, don't treat it as a given. Address the issues brought up by the Leavers, many of which are valid, rather than dismissing them as xenophobia and racism. The opposition's constituency will appreciate it and some, perhaps many, will switch sides.
You can start by respecting the opposition, not calling them "angry old men" (I get that you're attempting to mitigate the insult by calling your mentors "anxious old men") and not acting as if a referendum, no matter what the outcome, is a blow to democracy. Take the high road, even if politicians from the Right don't. Don't fear-monger ("they're driving the West off a cliff"). Make your "brand" empathy, understanding, not Globalization Ueber Alles! Make an informed case for european integration, don't treat it as a given. Address the issues brought up by the Leavers, many of which are valid, rather than dismissing them as xenophobia and racism. The opposition's constituency will appreciate it and some, perhaps many, will switch sides.
8
An excellent point, that applies in the US as well. The majority of Trump supporters are salt Of the earth people who are operating out of fear and resentment, as do we all at times.
At least England won't be ruled by angry, old, faceless, bloodless, avaricious bureaucrats and bankers
7
But Scotland, Wales, Cornwall and Northern Ireland will be.
Be careful what you wish for, especially if your hopes are based on slogans of problems and not the solutions. How Brexit will solve inequality and competing labor forces on Global level unless you want to stop exporting/importing goods and become isolated and self sufficient country. There is no such country in the world, and Globalization is here to stay, better find ways to adjust to it and solutions for the displaced. Shutting eyes will not do it. Be careful America, your election decision like Britain will roil the whole world and will not solve the problem of inequality and poor wages.
5
If income inequality was the reason for the rise of retroism their might be a cause worth fighting. Trump and his like want to restore a world that they ran.
We are 75 years into the future, how can anyone believe that the good old days were really good for anyone other than the super elite.
We are 75 years into the future, how can anyone believe that the good old days were really good for anyone other than the super elite.
3
Phillip:
Can you separate the cause from Trump? Trump may be conning these folks but who else is even bothering to do that? It's more of the same, and it's your fault if that's not working for you from the usual suspects. Witness Blair's lamenting lecture on CNN yesterday. Lots of talk about what the angry people SHOULD do but no real ideas on how any of those shoulds can be accomplished. Those on the unfortunate sides of our current divides have had enough of too comfortable career politicians like him and so many others and are willing to take a chance( maybe a wrong one) on something different. And Blair and his like minded careerists lack the imagination and the leadership skills to do anything but tsk tsk.
Can you separate the cause from Trump? Trump may be conning these folks but who else is even bothering to do that? It's more of the same, and it's your fault if that's not working for you from the usual suspects. Witness Blair's lamenting lecture on CNN yesterday. Lots of talk about what the angry people SHOULD do but no real ideas on how any of those shoulds can be accomplished. Those on the unfortunate sides of our current divides have had enough of too comfortable career politicians like him and so many others and are willing to take a chance( maybe a wrong one) on something different. And Blair and his like minded careerists lack the imagination and the leadership skills to do anything but tsk tsk.
1
It's incorrect to mash up globalization and unification. Nations can form a free trade zone (see Nafta) and not bind themselves politically to other states. They can have free trade and set their own pro-immigration policy that meets their own needs. They can have free trade and not be part of a currency union that is only as weak as its weakest member.
The British, like Americans are more allergic to stifling nanny states than most continentals - it's what makes the Anglosphere the most powerful group of nations in the world. It goes to our sense of liberty and self determination - not obedience to faceless, unelected civil servants who only represent self perpetuating bureaucracies.
Short term pain, but long term gain for the UK.
The British, like Americans are more allergic to stifling nanny states than most continentals - it's what makes the Anglosphere the most powerful group of nations in the world. It goes to our sense of liberty and self determination - not obedience to faceless, unelected civil servants who only represent self perpetuating bureaucracies.
Short term pain, but long term gain for the UK.
9
Great Britain has been around for long time and will be continue to be around. The EU in its current form is too heavy handed for the British. In a way, the EU was too accommodating of multiple levels of access. It allowed the UK in completely, but did not share a common currency. The UK economy is big enough to survive and even thrive on its own. So this is not the end of the world. People still need to buy stuff and be mobile. It proves that democracy and capitalism exist in multiple forms and levels. Different countries need feel free enough to work in a system that fits its own values.
15
This will be a great opportunity for us to see what effects isolationism and trade restrictions have on a major country's economy. Trump supporters, I hope you are watching how the financial markets are reacting to Britain's new take on democracy and capitalism.
The anti-EU sentiment can to a large extent be traced back to failures of the various national governments, and the fact that the EU makes a convenient, and essentially defenseless scapegoat for these failures.
The British government under Cameron made conscious, and completely local, decisions to cut back on social services, which primarily affected the populations already suffering from economic stagnation, and the elderly. Rather than admitting to this failure, they allowed the Brexit camp to blame the EU for the economic hardships of large segments of their population.
In France, where according to recent polls, the anti-EU sentiments are even stronger than in Britain, the Socialists under Holland made outlandish and completely unsustainable promises during his election campaign. He now has to lobby for virtually the opposite of what he campaigned on (relaxation of the extremely stringent lifetime job security guarantees in France) to counteract the disastrous economic decline in France. And the right-wing opposition under Le Pen is focusing their attacks not on the domestic failures of the French government, but on the external boogy-man of the EU, in addition to xenophobic fear and hatred of "foreigners".
The EU is a convenient target for these attacks because they do not have a voice in these national elections. And the national supporters of the EU will allow the EU to be used as a scapegoat, because it allows them to obfuscate their on political failures.
The British government under Cameron made conscious, and completely local, decisions to cut back on social services, which primarily affected the populations already suffering from economic stagnation, and the elderly. Rather than admitting to this failure, they allowed the Brexit camp to blame the EU for the economic hardships of large segments of their population.
In France, where according to recent polls, the anti-EU sentiments are even stronger than in Britain, the Socialists under Holland made outlandish and completely unsustainable promises during his election campaign. He now has to lobby for virtually the opposite of what he campaigned on (relaxation of the extremely stringent lifetime job security guarantees in France) to counteract the disastrous economic decline in France. And the right-wing opposition under Le Pen is focusing their attacks not on the domestic failures of the French government, but on the external boogy-man of the EU, in addition to xenophobic fear and hatred of "foreigners".
The EU is a convenient target for these attacks because they do not have a voice in these national elections. And the national supporters of the EU will allow the EU to be used as a scapegoat, because it allows them to obfuscate their on political failures.
19
It isn't just fear that is the problem in Britain and the US. Yes, certain politicians, Trump and most of the Republican Party, pander to fearful people, but ignorance is also a factor. Smarter people, sensitive people don't want to even use the word "ignorance." But, it's a real factor. Both in the US and in Britain. Look at the Google stats on how many Brits googled "what is the EU?" It's astonishing. Look at the vote distribution map. All the serious metropolitan areas voted "remain." It isn't so much that farmers and country folk are basically ignorant. It's that they just do not pay attention. They are not interested. Then when some moron like Trump spews out his hatred, his vitriolic nonsense and his own brand of ignorance, they just resonate. So, hopefully, the Democrats have just been taught a lesson in what they have to deal with in the upcoming election. It is not rational, but it is real.
37
" It isn't so much that farmers and country folk are basically ignorant. It's that they just do not pay attention."
Another lesson the Democrats need to learn this election- The foregoing elitist attitude toward farmers and country folk, as you put it, will just verify their opinion that the 'city folk' view them as unsophisticated and inferior and will just bind them more firmly to the Republican nominee.
Another lesson the Democrats need to learn this election- The foregoing elitist attitude toward farmers and country folk, as you put it, will just verify their opinion that the 'city folk' view them as unsophisticated and inferior and will just bind them more firmly to the Republican nominee.
2
Wow. So everyone is CITIES are smart (serious metropolitan areas? You know -- like San Francisco?) but everyone who lives in the country or "on a farm" are ignorant hicks?
You sir, have a mighty peculiar idea of what "democracy" is, and it does not credit to anyone who ever taught you in school.
You sir, have a mighty peculiar idea of what "democracy" is, and it does not credit to anyone who ever taught you in school.
2
Cautionary note: Putin, Trump, and Murdoch press are celebrating. A lot of people have lost a lot of money. Maybe get back to work, huh?
11
And another cautionary note: Just like Mr. Trump, Nigel Farage (UKIP) has a very cordial relationship with Vladimir Putin, and openly praises his kind of leadership...
Sound familiar???
Sound familiar???
Bittner does not understand the dynamics of class oppression. The EU has been enormously beneficial to the top 1% of the income and wealth distribution, so that there can never be any change in the status quo from "within" the establishment- the establishmentarians have things too good!!! Why would they ever want to change what is for them a veritable Utopia? And since they are wielding all the power, the furthest thing from their pea brains is the concept of "compensating the losers". Neoliberal brute Capitalism produces Winners and Losers! Bourgeois ideology holds that the Losers are the "other", and hence deserve their fate- TINA, TINA, TINA, yesterday, today, tomorrow, and FOREVER!!!! So, whenever the 99% get a chance to upset the neoliberal FIRE sector applecart, they must seize the time!!!! The alternative is 21st- century serfdom- except that this time around, the serfs ultimately will not even be afforded the "opportunity" to live off the land and survive- they will be consigned to death and starvation, unless Bosses' Europe is stopped!!!!
21
You are talking of one of the reaches the countries in the world that over centuries has subjugated millions of people. It's ridiculous to call this an uprising against the 1%. The vote has to do with xenophobia and miserliness
The lower wages are not shared by the people at the top. Quite the reverse.
18
I am not a communist, but Marx said it best: "Workers of the world, unite." That, my friends, is the way to combat the abuses of the so-called "elites." By turning away from the misery of others, you are only going to deepen your own. This is a very sad day.
10
I would be curious to hear Mr. Bittner's take on the idealism expressed by millions of young Bernie Sanders voters. Apparently, in Britain having a vision is laudatory while here in the US, it's delusional. In the UK, if its the angry old men, then here, it's the vengeful old women.
7
The sexist and ageist generalizations you make say a lot more about you, the "millions of young Bernie Sanders voters", and your "revolution" than you think.
We will see how these arrogant decision-makers will consider their situation in a year ahead.
5
Brussels - as a synonym for the EU - has been referred to as Moscow - as a synonym for the Soviet Union - with a friendly face. That is undoubtedly an exaggeration, but instead of addressing the problem, the captains of the juggernaut just plowed ahead. A bit like the masters of the Titanic. Lesson: nothing is unsinkable.
8
Dividing a society in young and old isn't the right thing to do, things are much more complex. Don't try to divide people in good guys and bad guys, I've seen you do that several times. We don't want simplifications, the Times isn't a Hollywood movie.
17
Well this Op-Ed just shows why Aristotle was correct when he said
Philosophy-Politics-Ethics should not be left to the young.
Open immigration for people who do not speak a nation's language and who
will accept jobs that pay less than a liveable wage is just asking for trouble.
Globalisation is just a word used by the Elite to justify their ill-begotten wealth
and why they really don't have to care about the poor.
Philosophy-Politics-Ethics should not be left to the young.
Open immigration for people who do not speak a nation's language and who
will accept jobs that pay less than a liveable wage is just asking for trouble.
Globalisation is just a word used by the Elite to justify their ill-begotten wealth
and why they really don't have to care about the poor.
35
This is beneath rubbish.
The author decries leaders who are "anxious" but then laments he is anxious about his future.
He reveals that he once changed his mind about the subject which raises the question if he will not change his mind yet again once he grows up and learns more.
He categorizes the "young" in Europe as optimistic and by default the not so young as unenlightened and irrational and aligned with Arab culture.
He is apparently anti-union but for government intervention in the form of "stricter control of the labor market." So unions are bad but government is good. That is not what the history of Germany shows over the last 100 years.
The idea that Europe can solve the problems of the developing world that he talks about "on its borders" is a dream. Europe will sink and is already taking on tremendous water.
The battle for Europe's soul has been going on for a very long time and there have always been barbarians at the border. Britain has decided they don't want to participate in that process. Can't say I blame them for avoiding the dysfunctional mess that is the EU.
Europe needs to find it's soul not based on bumper sticker ideologies but what does it want to be for Europeans. If government cannot serve its own people then it is worthless.
The author decries leaders who are "anxious" but then laments he is anxious about his future.
He reveals that he once changed his mind about the subject which raises the question if he will not change his mind yet again once he grows up and learns more.
He categorizes the "young" in Europe as optimistic and by default the not so young as unenlightened and irrational and aligned with Arab culture.
He is apparently anti-union but for government intervention in the form of "stricter control of the labor market." So unions are bad but government is good. That is not what the history of Germany shows over the last 100 years.
The idea that Europe can solve the problems of the developing world that he talks about "on its borders" is a dream. Europe will sink and is already taking on tremendous water.
The battle for Europe's soul has been going on for a very long time and there have always been barbarians at the border. Britain has decided they don't want to participate in that process. Can't say I blame them for avoiding the dysfunctional mess that is the EU.
Europe needs to find it's soul not based on bumper sticker ideologies but what does it want to be for Europeans. If government cannot serve its own people then it is worthless.
28
As always, the word "reveals," reveals the typical social Darwinism, historical ignorance, and right-wing recitations.
This results of this vote prove the adage, "The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter." (W. Churchill)
21
Wow, I didn't realize Churchill was such an elitist.
1
Of course, to lefty liberals, who are totalitarians just under the surface....voting should only be for "elites", who think "correctly" and will vote for proper candidates and initiatives....as ordered to, by their masters.
2
And, now for Northern Ireland to declare independence from GB, and reunite with the South. Let's see. Why should one island be beholden to another across the sea?
7
On LI: Sounds good, well... Tell us what to do with over a million Unionists who say no to "independence."
2
" We young..". Your grasp of many things, including Brexit voting statistics is weak.
15
LOL...and Mr. Bittner, at 43 (!!!) is delusional enough to think that is YOUNG.
It is middle aged, at least. And for quite a few years now. Unless Mr. Bittner believes he will live to 125.
It is middle aged, at least. And for quite a few years now. Unless Mr. Bittner believes he will live to 125.
You can take Europe out of the World War, but you can't take the World War out of Europe.
1
There are actually some educated, thinking people who have seen "the quasi-religious, ever- closer-union ideology" as not so "quasi".
7
So now it's young vs old, saying the old are fools
It really is starting to look like war.
It really is starting to look like war.
15
"We — the young, optimistic millions across Europe — cannot lose the West." Perhaps from the viewpoint of young Germans, but this perspective seems to ignore the desperation of millions of young, educated, and unemployed youth in Spain, Italy and Greece (just to name a few). In France, desperation is less quiet.
The UK is just the first country to think clearly about an EU dominated by Germany and German policies. Bittner speaks of the love of demolition, but as the great Austrian-American economist had shown, destruction can be creative and is essential to creativity. The emphasis on disruption is management literature also indicates that the status quo represents the dead hand of bureaucracy.
Bittner also has the narrow lens of the German commentariat, seeing all European developments as a response or reaction to Germany. The problem with the EU is the EU, and Germany's role and influence just magnifies it.
The UK is just the first country to think clearly about an EU dominated by Germany and German policies. Bittner speaks of the love of demolition, but as the great Austrian-American economist had shown, destruction can be creative and is essential to creativity. The emphasis on disruption is management literature also indicates that the status quo represents the dead hand of bureaucracy.
Bittner also has the narrow lens of the German commentariat, seeing all European developments as a response or reaction to Germany. The problem with the EU is the EU, and Germany's role and influence just magnifies it.
9
Britians have two choices, demand a do-over on the exit vote or get used to the idea of their future as a junior affiliate to the USA, kind of like Canada with less oil and more people. They need strong relationships with strong countries, and having snubbed France, Germany and the EU at large, their remaining choices are China, Russia and the USA. But England x-EU will need the USA much more than the USA needs them, so without a Roosevelt-Churchill personal relationship to even the scale, what kind of deal would you expect England to be able to obtain on trade, defense and all the other major issues if the day?
16
Demand a "do-over"? Why, because they didn't have a chance to study for the one-question exam before the exam?
2
It is simple: economic unions make the world safer. Governments are less likely to destroy one another if they are economically tied. The British think they can leave the world, as do many Americans who support Trump, but the world will attack. Look at what has happened as the US has tried to stay out of Syria. Syria is drawing the US in and the US will need help to end that war against Syria, and perhaps Russia. We cannot hide behind borders and forget the world exists. We are part of a world order and no vote, or election, will remove the US (a vote for Trump) or Britain from that order.
68
We (the US) should aspire to lead the world. The US has been the greatest, most benevolent society the world has ever known. We should be proud of that. We should not surrender our national identity to some nebulous "world order". Similarly, Britain is a wonderful democratic society based upon individual liberty. I applaud their decision to retain their national identity and move forward as a net positive force in the world.
2
Agreed. The Brexit vote was a 'back to the future' campaign. There were no good ol' days. Globization has it's faults, (so lets work on them), but it makes us as a whole, healthier, wealthier and safer.
R: Respectfully, do you seriously think there would be the problems in Syria if not for our invasion of Iraq? If there had been an equitable solution to the Palestinian issue and if we had not been meddling in the affairs of the Middle East for sixty years for either big oil, the Saudis(big oil)or Israel, do you really think Al Quaeda, the Taliban or Isil would have come about? The neo cons in this country are trying to drag us into the Syrian civil war and the mess resulting from the aftermath of the coup in the Ukraine, not the other way around. We must get out of the Middle East, if the nightmare we have Created in Iraq is not proof enough I don't know what would convince you. We like Britain(and Europe) must get our own houses in order and start taking care of the citizens already here, not spend our resources on other people's problems. China spends a fraction of what we do on their military and yet their one percent and many in their emerging middle class are roaming the world buying up property and going to our Universities which are no longer affordable to our own young people. The developed world needs a reset and Brexit demonstrates that at least one nation is willing to take the first step by dumping Cameron, the elite and the status quo, France and Germany have elections soon and will follow suit, let's hope we are next to determine our own destiny, time is running out, we have been sold out by our elected leaders on both sides of the aisle.
2
What a bunch of twaddle. Gluttonous CEO's, debt mill swindlers, and the stooges they buy seats for in what used to be a functioning government are going to "fix" the very premise of the global rip-off scheme they've foisted on the rest of us?
An actual government as opposed to an enabler of a global criminal cartel would operate with the conviction that an economy is meant to provide food, shelter, and clothing to the human race, not that an economy is a lunatic asylum in which people run around like crazy people trying to put their hands on money, which the owners of the game want you to give them more of.
And I am not talking about "taxes." I am talking about "investors" messing up your life, booting you out of your neighborhoods, and, worse, filling your heads with nonsense because you are so engrossed in trying to get money that they can and because it suits them. War, you see. Take all those trillions that algorithms magically transform into money, form them into bombs, and drop them on people. The money cycle: sell you debt, take your payments, and blow them up. The whole enterprise is phantasms dancing on a mirage.
No. The people who rule the world are not going to fix it. They already have fixed it just the way they like it. It took a long time and cost them a lot of money. Well, the author of this piece is right that the neoliberal system is going to be fixed. Trashed is more like it. Banks and corporations are going to fixed so they work for humanity.
An actual government as opposed to an enabler of a global criminal cartel would operate with the conviction that an economy is meant to provide food, shelter, and clothing to the human race, not that an economy is a lunatic asylum in which people run around like crazy people trying to put their hands on money, which the owners of the game want you to give them more of.
And I am not talking about "taxes." I am talking about "investors" messing up your life, booting you out of your neighborhoods, and, worse, filling your heads with nonsense because you are so engrossed in trying to get money that they can and because it suits them. War, you see. Take all those trillions that algorithms magically transform into money, form them into bombs, and drop them on people. The money cycle: sell you debt, take your payments, and blow them up. The whole enterprise is phantasms dancing on a mirage.
No. The people who rule the world are not going to fix it. They already have fixed it just the way they like it. It took a long time and cost them a lot of money. Well, the author of this piece is right that the neoliberal system is going to be fixed. Trashed is more like it. Banks and corporations are going to fixed so they work for humanity.
40
Are angry old men a bigger problem than arrogant young men?
70
UK will do just fine after the vote. It is not by accident that the majority of the votes deceided to leave.They are one of the richest coutry and still have a stable democracy. UK will now have a better grip on immigration and welfare planning. These two points really made people mad.
26
You have no idea what you are talking about
It is ironic that the older people who predominantly voted to exit and are more dependent on pensions and savings will be burt the most by their vote. People like Mr. Farage were charlatans who sold a bill of goods that cannot be delivered.
Unfortunately for the UK, too many people fell for it. Let's hope that cooler minds will still win out and work out a modest adjustment to the existing relationship between the UK and the EU rather than a hard split which is only questionably achievable.
Unfortunately for the UK, too many people fell for it. Let's hope that cooler minds will still win out and work out a modest adjustment to the existing relationship between the UK and the EU rather than a hard split which is only questionably achievable.
93
Wow! The desperation of the elites, which simply can't accept a direct democracy vote, is in full display.
Now they found the that it is the fault of the old males (presumably white also).
Having failed to scare these old white men with their calamitous predictions into voting for the status quo, they are now using sexist (men), ageist (old), racial (white) excuses to avoid dealing with reality.
The majority of the population of the UK, having a rare chance to vote directly via referendum, simply does not want the status quo. They don't care if that messes up the "global plan".
Looks like Mr. Bittner can't deal with reality and simply wants to label the voters with some choice words. What a shame.
Now they found the that it is the fault of the old males (presumably white also).
Having failed to scare these old white men with their calamitous predictions into voting for the status quo, they are now using sexist (men), ageist (old), racial (white) excuses to avoid dealing with reality.
The majority of the population of the UK, having a rare chance to vote directly via referendum, simply does not want the status quo. They don't care if that messes up the "global plan".
Looks like Mr. Bittner can't deal with reality and simply wants to label the voters with some choice words. What a shame.
62
You're right that it's a damned shame that the UK has decided to leave the European Union. And yet you yourself mention the very difficulties that led to this.
You say, and I quote, "It was a victory for people who have neither the guts nor the imagination to take on the downsides of globalization. Yes, globalization and Europeanization have taken their tolls, both on traditional forms of democracy and on traditional job security." Good lord, are you so arrogant and out of touch that you don't understand the devastation that globalization and unfettered immigration have taken on workers in the west? Do you not understand the effect that third world immigration is having on the cultures of some of the world's most advanced civilizations?
Yes, Brexit is a shame, but ultimately the blame rests on out-of-touch elites who, like you, are blind to what their policies have inflicted on working people.
You say, and I quote, "It was a victory for people who have neither the guts nor the imagination to take on the downsides of globalization. Yes, globalization and Europeanization have taken their tolls, both on traditional forms of democracy and on traditional job security." Good lord, are you so arrogant and out of touch that you don't understand the devastation that globalization and unfettered immigration have taken on workers in the west? Do you not understand the effect that third world immigration is having on the cultures of some of the world's most advanced civilizations?
Yes, Brexit is a shame, but ultimately the blame rests on out-of-touch elites who, like you, are blind to what their policies have inflicted on working people.
52
This article is silly, condescending, and naive. It typifies the very mentality that middle class people around the globe are rejecting.
47
Brexit has been compared to the rise of Trump for good reason - they are one and the same.
No knowledgeable person in the US - Democrat or Republican, Conservative or Liberal - supports the stupendously destructive policies advanced by Trump.
This con man who has personally profited through serial bankruptcy and fraud promotes:
- withdrawing from NATO and NAFTA;
- engaging in Smoot-Hawley like trade wars;
- banning an entire religion from the country;
- encouraging nuclear proliferation;
- ignoring critical global climate treaties;
- tripling the national debt through tax cuts for the rich;
- defaulting on the US debt, etc.
The Brexit campaign was a clear choice between reason and demagoguery. It was a campaign of facts versus fear and lies.
Even the central 'Leave' issue of immigration was a lie.
Non-member EU countries like Switzerland and Norway are still bound by the Free Movement of workers enshrined in Article 45.
Also with 5% unemployment, immigrants benefit the UK economy by offsetting demographic declines in the % of prime age native workers.
The UK current account deficit will be more expensive to finance.
Unemployment and inflation will increase.
Exports are less competitive and imports more expensive.
The UK standard of living will be decimated.
The UK itself could crumble if Scotland and Northern Ireland vote to stay in the EU instead.
Demagogues don't speak to reason, but emotion.
Brexit illustrates its lunacy and self-destruction.
No knowledgeable person in the US - Democrat or Republican, Conservative or Liberal - supports the stupendously destructive policies advanced by Trump.
This con man who has personally profited through serial bankruptcy and fraud promotes:
- withdrawing from NATO and NAFTA;
- engaging in Smoot-Hawley like trade wars;
- banning an entire religion from the country;
- encouraging nuclear proliferation;
- ignoring critical global climate treaties;
- tripling the national debt through tax cuts for the rich;
- defaulting on the US debt, etc.
The Brexit campaign was a clear choice between reason and demagoguery. It was a campaign of facts versus fear and lies.
Even the central 'Leave' issue of immigration was a lie.
Non-member EU countries like Switzerland and Norway are still bound by the Free Movement of workers enshrined in Article 45.
Also with 5% unemployment, immigrants benefit the UK economy by offsetting demographic declines in the % of prime age native workers.
The UK current account deficit will be more expensive to finance.
Unemployment and inflation will increase.
Exports are less competitive and imports more expensive.
The UK standard of living will be decimated.
The UK itself could crumble if Scotland and Northern Ireland vote to stay in the EU instead.
Demagogues don't speak to reason, but emotion.
Brexit illustrates its lunacy and self-destruction.
9
You forgot WW3 and Bubonic Plague.
2
It's not about "old" and "young". It's all about the money and those who control it in the world. They are the globalists who have no compunction about lowering the standard of living for those of us who have worked hard and have little to show for it while those at the top.. the 1%, have the vast majority of the wealth in the western world and indeed in all the world. That's what Brexit is about. It's about taking control of the wealth of a nation and using it for the good of the people and not just the oligarchs.
231
Don't be silly. None of the fools who voted for Brexit have the slightest idea about taking control of the wealth of a nation. Are you bonkers?
3
NOT so or partially. The blue collar working class in Manufacturing have been replaced by Chinese workers & plus some in America white collar in clerical jobs by computers &/or Indians the case of computer jobs recently.
Many of these same people voted in 1980,1984,2000 & 2004, for Presidents, who lowered taxes on the Rich. In addition, Pres. Budh II shipped jobs to China in return for buying our Bonds, underwriting Huge Deficits to pay for his Middle East Wars & his tax cuts.
Pres. Obama was finally able to repeal most of the tax cuts for the Rich & reduce the Deficit, but NOT the lower 15% tax for investment traders & speculators plus low capital gain taxes on stock sales
Brexit was about other Europeans immigrating to England. Even worse were the decline of manufacturing jobs & change if life style for the young.
Many of these same people voted in 1980,1984,2000 & 2004, for Presidents, who lowered taxes on the Rich. In addition, Pres. Budh II shipped jobs to China in return for buying our Bonds, underwriting Huge Deficits to pay for his Middle East Wars & his tax cuts.
Pres. Obama was finally able to repeal most of the tax cuts for the Rich & reduce the Deficit, but NOT the lower 15% tax for investment traders & speculators plus low capital gain taxes on stock sales
Brexit was about other Europeans immigrating to England. Even worse were the decline of manufacturing jobs & change if life style for the young.
I wish that were true.
Only someone who did not live through World War II or study it in depth could use the term "righteous theatrics" to characterize the concerns of people who did and have. The author needs to read up on European history so he will understand that a primary goal of the European Union is peace. The current xenophobia and fears about immigrants taking over one's country underscore the importance of this goal.
8
Once again we have an ivory tower writer blaming voters who elected to leave the EU calling them ignorant, xenophobic, and angry, while failing to understand the reasons for why they voted this way.
Bittner thinks that EU opponents should have done something about the immigration and economic problems affecting Great Britain. As if it was that simple. He fails to realize that the money and power to make changes has been concentrated in the hands of a few whose only desire is to maintain the status quo.
British citizens who voted in favor of leaving the EU were exercising what little power they have available to them to send a strong message that they are not happy with the direction political, business and media leaders are taking their country. They are smart enough to know that they will never be taken seriously unless they can influence the only thing that matters to the upper crust – their pocket books and wallets. If this means everyone has to endure some hardship for a little while until a more equitable economic and social plan can be developed, so be it.
It is clear that we are experiencing the first wave of what appears will be a sea change in social attitudes. The economic divide has become too wide and the hedge fund managers, bankers and global corporations that set policy who continue to ignore these changes do so at their own peril.
Bittner thinks that EU opponents should have done something about the immigration and economic problems affecting Great Britain. As if it was that simple. He fails to realize that the money and power to make changes has been concentrated in the hands of a few whose only desire is to maintain the status quo.
British citizens who voted in favor of leaving the EU were exercising what little power they have available to them to send a strong message that they are not happy with the direction political, business and media leaders are taking their country. They are smart enough to know that they will never be taken seriously unless they can influence the only thing that matters to the upper crust – their pocket books and wallets. If this means everyone has to endure some hardship for a little while until a more equitable economic and social plan can be developed, so be it.
It is clear that we are experiencing the first wave of what appears will be a sea change in social attitudes. The economic divide has become too wide and the hedge fund managers, bankers and global corporations that set policy who continue to ignore these changes do so at their own peril.
38
The tidal wave of Brexit is already being felt here in the USA. Hillary Clinton is now in a very awkward and difficult spot, a worse spot than when Sanders was in the running (he still is, officially, but he knows better). For HC is the embodiment of the elite, of the centrist status quo that so many are so angry about everywhere. How will she climb out of this hole is anyone's guess. I am only sorry that Sanders won't be the nominee. HC has no choice now but to adopt his platform if we want to see Trump defeated. But will anyone believe her? Will she herself believe?
11
Sorry, but globalization is here to stay. Covering your eyes and ears and electing people promising to return us to "greatness" by using fear-mongering and both symbolic and actual walls to "protect" us is as much a folly as the bridge I am about to sell you. Cheap.
Replying to myself here but wanting to add that HC's silence on Brexit is deafening. She knows she embodies what so many are against. That's why.
9/11 and terrorism= "us" vs. "them"
"us" vs. "them"=tribalism
tribalism=nationalism
nationalism=demagogues
demagogues=fear mongering and scapegoating
fear mongering and scapegoating=dissolution of trust
dissolution of trust=paranoia and xenophobia
paranoia and xenophobia=manipulation of the masses
manipulation of the masses=decision making based on misinformation
decision making based on misinformation=Brexit, Donald Trump, et. al
wash, rinse, repeat. terrorism wins.
"us" vs. "them"=tribalism
tribalism=nationalism
nationalism=demagogues
demagogues=fear mongering and scapegoating
fear mongering and scapegoating=dissolution of trust
dissolution of trust=paranoia and xenophobia
paranoia and xenophobia=manipulation of the masses
manipulation of the masses=decision making based on misinformation
decision making based on misinformation=Brexit, Donald Trump, et. al
wash, rinse, repeat. terrorism wins.
138
wow!
Brexit and Europe’s Angry Old Men...
"fear mongering and scapegoating"
Sure is.
"fear mongering and scapegoating"
Sure is.
It will be instructive to witness how the Progressive Left deals with the fact that people have figured out their nasty little game. The nightmare of Venezuela speaks volumes.
9
The solution to the problem is relatively simple -
MAKE the wealthy pay their fair share.
All the wealthy have done is slowly bleed the common man dry. They pay politicians to do their bidding and pay for "free speech" to keep our poor voices muffled.
Fix that and make sure government spreads the wealth to us, the folks who have been getting shafted since Nixon was elected president.
Vote Democratic in 2016!! We Dems stand up for people!
MAKE the wealthy pay their fair share.
All the wealthy have done is slowly bleed the common man dry. They pay politicians to do their bidding and pay for "free speech" to keep our poor voices muffled.
Fix that and make sure government spreads the wealth to us, the folks who have been getting shafted since Nixon was elected president.
Vote Democratic in 2016!! We Dems stand up for people!
2
You are terribly naïve and ignorant.
8 years of Obama, and the wealthy do not pay their share -- the banksters never went to jail -- Glass Steagall never reinstated -- Obama's cabinet entirely filled with Goldman Sachs alums ....
Hmm. Maybe Democrats are NOT standing up for "the people".
Hmm. Maybe Democrats are NOT standing up for "the people".
3
Well today's events cost many people both rich and poor a lot of money. As time goes on it will cause globe instability and might cost the British a lot in the comeing years. I ho poke it proves to be worth the price.
2
"Yet it is dangerously foolish to believe that, with or without Ms. Merkel’s policies, Europe can somehow shut its doors and ignore the pressing weight of the developing world on its borders"
Really, it's quite simple, just shut the borders. Take a deep breath and set some criteria to decide who you need to admit into the country. No where is it stated that Europe or the United States has any obligation to just blindly accept whoever ends up in the que.
As a matter of fact where is the HUGE uproar that should be heard about the failure by Saudi Arabia, Qatar or any one of those hugely rich countries to accept their brethren and give them a welfare state in those locations?
So until the EU can explain these issues plainly and clearly, there is no need for any country to accept the annihilation of their country.
Really, it's quite simple, just shut the borders. Take a deep breath and set some criteria to decide who you need to admit into the country. No where is it stated that Europe or the United States has any obligation to just blindly accept whoever ends up in the que.
As a matter of fact where is the HUGE uproar that should be heard about the failure by Saudi Arabia, Qatar or any one of those hugely rich countries to accept their brethren and give them a welfare state in those locations?
So until the EU can explain these issues plainly and clearly, there is no need for any country to accept the annihilation of their country.
25
Now we've just heard from an angry middle aged man. Britain will prosper in the future like she has never done before since the outbreak of WW1.
They are and industrious nation well educated and bristling with ideas and original thinking. New Zealand can make it work and we are a fraction of the population and have to move our exports lights years to get them to market. The british commonwealth that they walked out on is 10 times the size of the european market so the Brits just need to get their act together and get on with it.
It'll work out , believe me
They are and industrious nation well educated and bristling with ideas and original thinking. New Zealand can make it work and we are a fraction of the population and have to move our exports lights years to get them to market. The british commonwealth that they walked out on is 10 times the size of the european market so the Brits just need to get their act together and get on with it.
It'll work out , believe me
21
Mr. Bittner characterizes Leavers as "the maniacs of disintegration." I should think the Leavers would characterize those with liberal immigration policies as "the maniacs of disintegration." If the terrorism in Britain and France since the 2007 bombings reveal anything it is that massive immigration Europe and France has not resulted in an integrated society but a fractured one. One wonders how it could be otherwise when most Arab and African immigrants coming to the UK and France come from countries where most people would would like to see Sharia the law of the land in their home countries, according to a recent Pew research poll ("Muslims and Islam: Key Findings in the U.S. and around the World"). I would encourage Mr. Bittner to read this study before writing another piece in which he chastises an older generation (65%) and a younger one (34%) for Xenophobia. The poll reveals enormous sociocultural differences between most Muslim countries and European countries like Britain.
15
Britain still thinks it's an empire and the EU would be fine if it was run by the English. In this referendum racism, polemicism and misplaced nationalism won the day. Where now for the thousands and thousands of car assembly workers for Nissan who voted leave?
4
Actually Britain is the only one of the great
European powers that never tried to conquer and rule Europe. Vide Rome, Napoleon, Hitler. With lesser efforts by Austrian and Spanish Habsburgs.
European powers that never tried to conquer and rule Europe. Vide Rome, Napoleon, Hitler. With lesser efforts by Austrian and Spanish Habsburgs.
While I mostly agree with the content of this article, I take issue with the idea that the demagogues that seem to be popping up all around the western world are somehow breaking with the "enlightened, rational tradition of Europe". Ignorant, fear mongering, or even corrupt politicians can show up anywhere, and Mr. Bittner's language here sounds an awful lot like the language of colonialism. Colonialists, as we now understand them, were the epitome of ignorance and bigotry, incapable of seeing anything other than monetary value in non-European peoples and cultures. I wouldn't say that this article is blatantly Eurocentric or Euro-isolationist, but statements like the one I mentioned above seem to toe the line. And isn't Eurocentrism or isolationism in the same class as British isolationism?
3
Ah, Mr. Bittner this is the same nasty condescension toward those old, angry and parochial rubes from on high that many are fed up with. You know so much better than everyone else. Do tell. You suggest that the energies of the anti-globalist forces should have been arrayed toward ameliorating the worst effects, rather than trying to turn it back. Perhaps. But for many people that is like being told their house has been set on fire and instructed not to flee. Just tamp it down in places and enjoy the free heat while your patrimony goes up in smoke.
36
I am an angry old man, Jochen... but totally angry at those angry old men (and women) who have forgotten what their parents told them about past European wars and destruction.
The vision of the founding fathers has brought us 71 years already of EU internal peace. Longer than ever in European history.
The vision of the founding fathers has brought us 71 years already of EU internal peace. Longer than ever in European history.
298
The EU didn't bring peace. It is the nuclear bomb and NATO that brought peace.
1
This is the first salvo in the battle between working people and those who benefit from globalisation. Donald Trump and Bernie Sanders tapped into the anxiety among american voters thus election cycle. The question is whether or not those who favor all of this"openness" are going to doing anything to address those fears. Telling someone who's had worked at a company for 10-15 years and then watch their job leave to just go and get "retrained" is not the answer. Most of these workers in America who were lucky enough to get another job are making less money. I suspect the leave the UE crowd shares some of those fears. I hear alot of politicians and people crying racism. There are real issues here that go beyond name calling.
12
Those evil old men!!! They need to shut up, give up retirement and social programs, pay more taxes and never dare to protest being ignored politically. What do they think they are, citizens or something???
262
Citizens, by definition, are not merely out for themselves.
Citizens do not ignore facts in favor of fear and hatred.
Citizens think about the future, even if they won't be around to suffer the consequences.
You are confusing citizenship and the right to vote, which is just a component of citizenship.
Citizens do not ignore facts in favor of fear and hatred.
Citizens think about the future, even if they won't be around to suffer the consequences.
You are confusing citizenship and the right to vote, which is just a component of citizenship.
Actually these old men, ie their generation, have taken much more wealth than their fathers or sons added. The boomers were the worst.
Who's asking them to give up their retirement & social programs? Who's trying to raise their (retired folks) taxes? Ignored politically? Old folks? Rubbish!
The problem isn't your age, whatever it might be, it's your stupidity, your ability to hear something that isn't there.
The problem isn't your age, whatever it might be, it's your stupidity, your ability to hear something that isn't there.
The state we are in :
A petition for the government to hold a second referendum
on "Brexit" has already gained more than 400 000
signatures and counting. Nicola Sturgeon the Scottish
first minister and London Mayor Sadiq Khan share the same
view about their areas remaining in the EU.
Elsewhere on TV Farage admitted that the pledge about
the weekly £350 saving in EU contributions that could be
spent on the NHS was not guaranteed and a mistake.
I bet more and more hoaxes from the "leave" campaign
are going to be revealed. Let's hope that the the process
and prospect of a Desunited Kingdoms can be stopped.
A petition for the government to hold a second referendum
on "Brexit" has already gained more than 400 000
signatures and counting. Nicola Sturgeon the Scottish
first minister and London Mayor Sadiq Khan share the same
view about their areas remaining in the EU.
Elsewhere on TV Farage admitted that the pledge about
the weekly £350 saving in EU contributions that could be
spent on the NHS was not guaranteed and a mistake.
I bet more and more hoaxes from the "leave" campaign
are going to be revealed. Let's hope that the the process
and prospect of a Desunited Kingdoms can be stopped.
3
Remain was drenched in hoaxes and fear-mongering, promising everything but a plague of locusts.
So many problems would be solved if the human species would declare a moratorium on breeding.
6
It is not merely a "charge" that "the mighty at the top have unleashed a form of uncontrolled globalization whose effects will hit the people at the bottom hardest."
It is a fact.
The managerial-class mediocrities who run EU, UK, and US bureaucracies, corporations, media outlets, and universities long ago lost touch with reality and acquired contempt for those who think, make, and do.
There is nothing less useful for society or more destructive of democracy than a manager.
It is a fact.
The managerial-class mediocrities who run EU, UK, and US bureaucracies, corporations, media outlets, and universities long ago lost touch with reality and acquired contempt for those who think, make, and do.
There is nothing less useful for society or more destructive of democracy than a manager.
5
Jochen Bittner has the advantage of being in Berlin, but still he has it wrong. So only men have voted 'Leave.' Why not just go all the way in and blame it on angry old white men to echo the chambers of media here?
11
Now please tell us how the immorally wealthy 0.1% voted. Or the coddled, privileged 1%. Or even the smugly comfortable 10%.
Britain's wealthiest, the millionaire financiers and their economic peers, people who have prospered greatly even as the lower classes suffered, voted Stay at rates higher than did the 18-to-24 crowd. No doubt their Stay votes were forward-looking, principled, and selfless.
Britain's wealthiest, the millionaire financiers and their economic peers, people who have prospered greatly even as the lower classes suffered, voted Stay at rates higher than did the 18-to-24 crowd. No doubt their Stay votes were forward-looking, principled, and selfless.
30
Not exactly principled, Hugh. But it no doubt did have something to do with principal and interest...
1
If you condescend to the issue as involving "angry old men" (which is, after all, not a "protected class"), you avoid having to deal with the arguments and feelings of those supporting the Brexit. Mr. Bittner fits right in here at the Times.
12
Enlightened and rational tradition of Europe? Ha ha, that is a good one.
5
Yep, it's the beginning of the Zombie Apocalypse. Which, of course, is a metaphor for hordes of desperate Outsiders coming to take Our resources and Destroy Our way of life (by consuming our seat of consciousnesses, Ouch)!! The planet is over run with too many people who quite literally have nothing to lose but their lives. Now Britain is pulling up the drawbridge. It's not a rational decision but one made out of the most primal of fears.
2
So the rational decision would be....leave the drawbridge down, and be overwhelmed by millions of migrants from the third world?
1
The real winner here is Germany which rose from the ashes of war with the help of the Marshall plan, took on the hard work of reunification with East Germany. They took the lead in trying to fix Greece, manage the refugee crisis by taking in thousands and did not complain incessently to the world community. They have a strong economy, pay their workers well. Britain is old and cranky and just not up to the task of leading anymore. They will lead the new Europe and Britain will take a back seat and complain every step of the way.
2
Germany took the lead in managing the refugee crisis? Huh? In fact, Merkel acted as a dictator, grandiosely said Germany would take them without asking anyone, but then immediately stated that BTW every other EU country will have to take them too. All by diktat. Truly outrageous.
And this was done by one of the "reasonable" EU leaders.
And this was done by one of the "reasonable" EU leaders.
The good old days had massive problems. People get lazy and they forget.
Ouch! Sounds like the pep-talk to the team at half time, but without the slightest suggestion of just HOW they might "go out there and win one for old EU"
I share Mr. Bittner's objective but couldn't be more skeptical about its achievability. Turns out the old dogma of "keep integrating more, or lose it" was wrong; integrating more turned out to be the euro, where the risks materialized into disaster. Migration plus frustration in general added to the flames and it turns out that the truth was 'keep integrating beyond the instruments needed to make it work and lose it." As in the USA, the poisonous use of talk radio, the internet, social media, etc was gas on the flames.
Sorry for all the metaphors. It's just one awful mess and probably the best practical advice is something like "don't do [any more] stupid things and just hang on for a year or two."
I share Mr. Bittner's objective but couldn't be more skeptical about its achievability. Turns out the old dogma of "keep integrating more, or lose it" was wrong; integrating more turned out to be the euro, where the risks materialized into disaster. Migration plus frustration in general added to the flames and it turns out that the truth was 'keep integrating beyond the instruments needed to make it work and lose it." As in the USA, the poisonous use of talk radio, the internet, social media, etc was gas on the flames.
Sorry for all the metaphors. It's just one awful mess and probably the best practical advice is something like "don't do [any more] stupid things and just hang on for a year or two."
2
Much of the sentiment in favor of Brexit stems from a false nostalgia for a bygone era that never really was. Mr. Bittner writes, "Yes, globalization and Europeanization have taken their tolls," but the real toll is exacted by the inevitable march of an increasingly technologized and globalized future and the failure of democratic politics to confront such change constructively or productively.
The fear generated by change (and change by its nature generates fear) has been exploited by small-minded ideologues incapable of placing the larger picture of their nations above the partisan tribalism that they calculate will perpetuate their power, such as it is.
Globalization will continue to accelerate regardless of the walls we build to isolate us from change. The remaining question pertains to what, if anything, we can do to manage the change beneficially. Brexit is no answer.
www.endthemadnessnow.org
The fear generated by change (and change by its nature generates fear) has been exploited by small-minded ideologues incapable of placing the larger picture of their nations above the partisan tribalism that they calculate will perpetuate their power, such as it is.
Globalization will continue to accelerate regardless of the walls we build to isolate us from change. The remaining question pertains to what, if anything, we can do to manage the change beneficially. Brexit is no answer.
www.endthemadnessnow.org
138
Brexit may not be the final answer but it's an answer for the moment. Globalization, Euro-style, was happening too fast for many to absorb, many even who weighed the pluses and minuses, but also many who want to keep their culture to have some control. Assimilation takes time. The English are hardly xenophobic historically. But Brexit may have started a movement within the Euro countries or bring about some change within the EU. Or both. The story is not over.
1
Globalization will continue. You cannot stop the destruction of the world.
Something must be said for hands on experience for weeding out the follies of youth. Setting up the 18 to 24 group as a fresh new governing element and running down the older people as merely doddering old fools looks dangerously close to demonstrating the inexperience and youthful arrogance of the new wave of fresh political thinking who are themselves doomed to become the angry old men of the next decade or two. Common sense and judgment are to be valued greatly whether they qualities that bless a few angry old men or a few fresh new minds. Bring them on; we sadly need them.
134
I am amazed that you don't have more recommendations. This a great comment, positive and insightful. We definitely need common sense and "good" judgement. Bring them on, indeed.
1
Ironic that the angry old men, who "sagely" vilified the "experts", aren't going to live long enough to see the disasterous consequences their "judgment" has wrought on what will be left of GB sans Scotland and perhaps Northern Ireland, while the "fresh new minds" ,who are the youth of the nation, will suffer for generations.
Mr. Bittner has written a valuable column with many good points, but his dismissal of nationalism as a bad thing and the dread of its return are mistaken notions. Nationalism arguably did more for Greece that membership in the EU.
Nationalism, like any other worldview, can and has been abused. This includes globalism, which has pretty much eroded nationalism altogether and has the world functioning almost entirely as an oligarchy pitting a miniscule percentage of the super-rich against the rest of us.
Nationalism, however, at least in the West, has been responsible for some of the most valuable and enduring documents and ideas in history. For ideas, look at democracy and citizenship. For documents, look at Magna Carta and the Constitution of the United States.
As for this vote having pitted the old against the young, I would submit that the "old" have seen more, and are more aware, of history. We (I am 63.) also remember certain notions of which the young can't even conceive, such as privacy. That doesn't make the old correct in this vote necessarily, but it goes a long way towards explaining their rationale.
By all means, Mr. Bittner, lead a movement of young people for the soul of Europe. Someone has to, if Europe is ever to really exist as a united entity. But don't dismiss the Brits who voted to leave the EU as just a bunch of "angry old men". Angry they may be, but they have good cause. And without this vote, nothing was going to change.
Nationalism, like any other worldview, can and has been abused. This includes globalism, which has pretty much eroded nationalism altogether and has the world functioning almost entirely as an oligarchy pitting a miniscule percentage of the super-rich against the rest of us.
Nationalism, however, at least in the West, has been responsible for some of the most valuable and enduring documents and ideas in history. For ideas, look at democracy and citizenship. For documents, look at Magna Carta and the Constitution of the United States.
As for this vote having pitted the old against the young, I would submit that the "old" have seen more, and are more aware, of history. We (I am 63.) also remember certain notions of which the young can't even conceive, such as privacy. That doesn't make the old correct in this vote necessarily, but it goes a long way towards explaining their rationale.
By all means, Mr. Bittner, lead a movement of young people for the soul of Europe. Someone has to, if Europe is ever to really exist as a united entity. But don't dismiss the Brits who voted to leave the EU as just a bunch of "angry old men". Angry they may be, but they have good cause. And without this vote, nothing was going to change.
11
Is it politically incorrect for the NY Times to call them "Angry, old white men?"
28
Yes it is. "Angry, old white men" is considered 'good' political incorrectness. Moreover, It is quite acceptable, in fact highly encouraged, to mock and sneer at the misfortunes of underemployed poor whites of either sex.
19
Why?
Angry: Check!
Old: Check!
White: Check!
Men: Check!
Seems pretty spot on to me.
Angry: Check!
Old: Check!
White: Check!
Men: Check!
Seems pretty spot on to me.
Oh, Bob, even if what you said was true, in addition to being fatuous and facile, everyone knows that truth is no defense to a charge of political correctness. It's an ideology, as you have so well exemplified.
Once upon a time I heard, without respite, and in sonorous moralizing tones, "Elections have consequences."
Now, strangely, I am hearing all the many reasons they don't.
Did something discomfiting just happen?
Now, strangely, I am hearing all the many reasons they don't.
Did something discomfiting just happen?
9
With the E.U., Germany succeeded where German Panzer divisions failed. Little surprise then that Germans are crying loudest over the Brexit results.
12
Just for the record. The reason that Germany is "crying the loudest over the Brexit results" has less to do with Panzers, than it has to do with finance.
With Britain (the second strongest European economy) set to leave the E.U. -- a major shift has occured which will have an effect on every single market on the continent, and across the globe.
With Britain (the second strongest European economy) set to leave the E.U. -- a major shift has occured which will have an effect on every single market on the continent, and across the globe.
First off, you aren't that young. Second, despite the efforts to brand the Leave camp as "angry old men," and worse, as racists, this was about democracy, sovereignty and global economics and its lack of rewards for anyone who works for a living. There is no need to obfuscate the point and at this point, it is best to meet these problems head on. Especially since we have on decision upon us this November and it is going to take a lot of convincing, with better arguments, because you are not trying to prevent votes from going to Trump, you're trying to win them back. Failing, I might add, so change tack--insults don't work so well.
60
Herr Bittner's notion that the BREXIT and everything else happening in Europe at the moment can be trivialized into an ageist concern, is as bewildering as it is incorrect.
For starters, the anger now being felt in Germany has more to do with a rising tide of xenophobia brought on by the seemingly endless tides of refugees, feckless politicians who don't know how to handle it, and a new generation of young right-wing neo Nazis who have taken matters into their own hands.
Being half-German I have watched this all unfold with growing alarm, which is also why the BREXIT didn't come as a real surprise...And much less so, after the tragic assassination of British MP Jo Cox.
While the anger these days is often stoked by politician's appeals to populist and nationalist rage -- little is heard of how to engage it constructively.
As a result, it probably won't be long before these types of fires will be buring closer to our shores effecting all ages.
For starters, the anger now being felt in Germany has more to do with a rising tide of xenophobia brought on by the seemingly endless tides of refugees, feckless politicians who don't know how to handle it, and a new generation of young right-wing neo Nazis who have taken matters into their own hands.
Being half-German I have watched this all unfold with growing alarm, which is also why the BREXIT didn't come as a real surprise...And much less so, after the tragic assassination of British MP Jo Cox.
While the anger these days is often stoked by politician's appeals to populist and nationalist rage -- little is heard of how to engage it constructively.
As a result, it probably won't be long before these types of fires will be buring closer to our shores effecting all ages.
16
This is the old, trying with a dying breath, to replace modernity. You would expect this more in the US than in Europe, but there it is.
11
England is not in europe
as we now decisively see
as we now decisively see
5
And in the process have hobbled future generations with their capriciousness.
1
The whole idea of BREXIT makes no sense. But there was a real and valid concern behind it. No majority wants to be turned into a minority in its own land. This process is well under way in the US. If Europe continues to be run by people like Lofven, Juncker, and Merkel, it could happen there, too. Africa's population will quadruple in the 21st century and the Arab world's population will more than double. Gigantic floods of migrants abusing impotent immigration policies that allow them to remain indefinitely, could turn Europeans into a despised minority in their own continent.
64
The only true Americans in the US are the Native American tribes.
1
You wrote: "The only true Americans in the US are the Native American tribes." This is irrelevant. The colonists who came to North America colonized this contienent. The Native American tribes are not going to regain control - they didn't even have a state capable of defending itself back then.
2
@Betti: that's pretty absurd. I have great respect for the Native American tribes but you can't go back in time 500 years and change history.
Hundreds of millions of Americans were born in the US -- their parents, grandparents, great-grandparents -- how can you say with a straight face that "they are not really Americans"? How many generations make you a native or a citizen?
You are basically saying you reject in every way the sovereignty of the United States and its very existence as a nation. If so, I assume you will be on the next boat out to Europe or wherever your great-grandparents emigrated from.
Hundreds of millions of Americans were born in the US -- their parents, grandparents, great-grandparents -- how can you say with a straight face that "they are not really Americans"? How many generations make you a native or a citizen?
You are basically saying you reject in every way the sovereignty of the United States and its very existence as a nation. If so, I assume you will be on the next boat out to Europe or wherever your great-grandparents emigrated from.
3
What is the 'welcome-mat policy to refugees'? Aren't most in ghettos working the lowest-wage, worst jobs? Isn't that what we 'give' to immigrants, after wearing-down our own? I'm appalled at xenophobia and quasi-fascism, but to be blind to poverty and inhumane inequality does this vote a disservice. Donald Trump and Bernie Sanders are both popular in America because so many are facing a lowly and dreamless future. We've sold-out to the wealthy, the powerful, the 'elite' (the same ones that many now have learned to disregard as 'leaders'). Every Senator in the US is a millionaire and beyond. Every media source is owned by millionaires (with billionaires getting more into the game every day). Only the idea of 'populism', as in the People, will save us. Only anger at greed and slave wages and inequity (as well as climatic destruction) will save us. Only We the People will save us (from the 'elite').
47
well put, spot on !
1
It seems the real enemy in all this may be overheated rhetoric.
2
Well, millions in poverty or headed that way, others just barely hanging on, and wealth continuing to concentrate into few hands - that reality is a much bigger problem than 'rhetoric'.
"We, the young, the future of Europe, must push back. Too much time has been lost already."
Here in Germany the Frankfurter Allgemeine and Die Welt have reported that AfD members are being subjected to horrendous violence and that it is hardly being reported.
There is also the belief around that these violent groups are being supported by others who wear the mask of political respectability.
So you be careful how you "push back"!
Here in Germany the Frankfurter Allgemeine and Die Welt have reported that AfD members are being subjected to horrendous violence and that it is hardly being reported.
There is also the belief around that these violent groups are being supported by others who wear the mask of political respectability.
So you be careful how you "push back"!
4
just be sure to not putsch back
1420: how clever! A reference to the Third Reich! (I shouldn't be critical, I guess. The left is doing its level best to be witty)
When the dust settles as they say, Fritz has it's hands full. How they manage to keep remaining members intact, and trade with Russia, is no easy task.
1
Mr. Bitter, a lot of young people are pushing back.
But they are pushing, at least in this country, in another direction. In America, we know that many people have lost their livelihoods because of untrammeled, unfettered globalization. Very simply, when you compete with people who work for less money, your wages are apt to decline. Many young people voted for Bernie Sanders, and he was a staunch opponent of trade deals which endangered the American worker.
The EU is a device which augments the power of capitalist elites. Also, although its purported aim is integration and continental amity, its edicts and programs have bolstered German power and domination to the detriment of others, such as the beleaguered people of Greece.
But they are pushing, at least in this country, in another direction. In America, we know that many people have lost their livelihoods because of untrammeled, unfettered globalization. Very simply, when you compete with people who work for less money, your wages are apt to decline. Many young people voted for Bernie Sanders, and he was a staunch opponent of trade deals which endangered the American worker.
The EU is a device which augments the power of capitalist elites. Also, although its purported aim is integration and continental amity, its edicts and programs have bolstered German power and domination to the detriment of others, such as the beleaguered people of Greece.
27
A wonderful commentary, and heartening to hear that the "young" may take this on. I've had my worries, and as a 67-year-old who has been quite involved in progressive change over the last 30 years, I have hoped that the younger generations will take on the huge tasks that we really did not resolve for them in any responsible way.
3
men havent changed in a million years
nor are they likely to in any appreciable way till we become an extinct and distant memory
nor are they likely to in any appreciable way till we become an extinct and distant memory
1
1420: it's hard to know whether this was a fatuous rant against males, or against humankind. But no matter. Either way, it added nothing.
Globalization is a phenomenon not unlike the Industrial Revolution. You don’t have to like it; indeed you can absolutely hate it, but that hatred is misspent energy because it is going to proceed with or without you. In a bizarre effort to mimic the antics of Ned Ludd, the present group of “cheerleaders for yesterday” think that they can rewind history and put the genie of globalization back into some bottle. Rubbish. It is no surprise that those who favored Brexit, were like Trump supporters, primarily older, less educated, and very, very scared of the future. The way to deal with a phenomenon you don’t like is to meet it head on and try to direct, modify, or influence it in some manner. Putting one’s fingers in one’s ears and going “Lalalalalala, if we pretend hard enough it will be 1974 or 1954 or 1894” or whatever your favorite year was, is worse than stupid.
20
No doubt. But I think the rational person's lesson from all this for us modern globalization proponents in the US is that we better find a way to harness the forces of globalization to bring comfort to those fearful old and less educated in our midst, because unfortunately they will continue to vote for fear mongers like Trump and Tea Party Paul who stoke their fear if we fail to do so.
2
It's not as simple as "la, la, la" nor is it just the less educated who are affected. Remember, Bernie Sanders is advocating for "fair trade" not "free trade" as well, and, he has a large contingent of educated followers. Both Sanders and Trump have latched on to the inequities of "free trade". While you are correct, "turning back the clock" is not the answer, trade deals must be negotiated more carefully. Even Tim Cook is now watching Chinese companies win patent suits (in China, of course) while they produce cheap "knock-offs" of Apple products meanwhile, software programmers and engineers watch their jobs (like the call-center providers) outsourced to India and, those back here (trying to live in our communities), see their wages similarly suppressed.
We don't have to sit idle and watch our standard of living sink to equilibrium with those of the "global economy". The French chemist LeChatelier reminded us that there are forces we can apply to systems so as to shift the equilibrium in a favorable direction. Those forces, however, require both economic and political willpower, not simplistic rhetoric.
We don't have to sit idle and watch our standard of living sink to equilibrium with those of the "global economy". The French chemist LeChatelier reminded us that there are forces we can apply to systems so as to shift the equilibrium in a favorable direction. Those forces, however, require both economic and political willpower, not simplistic rhetoric.
1
Actually you can, and should, put certain ""genies" back in the bottle, e.g. Communism, which was long seen as the progressive wave of the future by large chunks of the Western intelligentsia. This ramshackle utopian EU construct should go the same way.
1
Time to grease up the guillotine?
Or, in the U.S., tax the filthy rich so that their bloated CEO salaries are mostly coughed up to Uncle Sam as it was in the fifties.
Or, in the U.S., tax the filthy rich so that their bloated CEO salaries are mostly coughed up to Uncle Sam as it was in the fifties.
25
Rant, you do realize that 60% of the federal taxes you and I submit to Uncle Sam each year are devoted to military or military related spending - I hope. just giving more money to the present formulation of government with it's military industrial complex and impotent pork barrel projects is not going to get us anywhere. Im pretty sure the gates foundation doesn't spend its money on new weapons, Halliburton, or Guantanamo. We ll have to think beyond the status quo to go forward
None of this would be happening if the 1% would quit hogging all of the world's wealth and take some responsibility for the mess they have made out of society while in pursuit of riches. If they were giving back to society what they have taken out of it, we would not be fighting with immigrants from even poorer societies for the scraps.
956
Agree. Brexit and Trump are not the sky falling. That would be the population of humans-- fueling climate change, the 6th mass extinction, deforestation and depletion of other resources including clean air and water. It reminds me of the little known quote by our favorite Cherokee Son, Will Rogers, "The well-to-do never met a consumer they didn't like; they will welcome far too many into the lifeboat".
Laughable. This a Europe that has been dominated by socialist economic policies for decades but it's never enough. So now it's both socialism and capitalism that create these outcomes? Or is it really that you can never get enough of other people's money?
51+% voted to leave the EU and you blame the 1%? Please attempt to justify that!
If anything captures what led to Brexit--and to the rise of Trump--it is this piece.
The author begins by characterizing those in favor of Brexit as "people who have neither the guts nor the imagination to take on the downsides of globalization."
He follows this by saying that if migration has lowered wages, it can be dealt with.
But people have long complained about lowered wages--and no one has paid the slightest attention. If it can be dealt with now, it could have been dealt with before--but who paid any attention?
It took a vote to withdraw from the EU to even raise the issue.
That is what this is about. People should have been paying attention all along. If they did not, it is their fault. Not the fault of those who had no power, and no one to listen to them.
The author begins by characterizing those in favor of Brexit as "people who have neither the guts nor the imagination to take on the downsides of globalization."
He follows this by saying that if migration has lowered wages, it can be dealt with.
But people have long complained about lowered wages--and no one has paid the slightest attention. If it can be dealt with now, it could have been dealt with before--but who paid any attention?
It took a vote to withdraw from the EU to even raise the issue.
That is what this is about. People should have been paying attention all along. If they did not, it is their fault. Not the fault of those who had no power, and no one to listen to them.
282
"The older the voter, the more he or she was inclined to leave. Some 64 percent of the age group from 18 to 24 said they would vote for Remain; just 35 percent of those between 50 and 64 wanted to stay."
Here in Germany, young Germans have for decades been the victims of an Amazon of pro-"EU" propaganda in the media and in schools and probably in universities. I have taugfht in German schools.
UKIP need to check out what is going on in British schools. I have reason to suspect that the same sort of abuse of power is going on there.
Here in Germany, young Germans have for decades been the victims of an Amazon of pro-"EU" propaganda in the media and in schools and probably in universities. I have taugfht in German schools.
UKIP need to check out what is going on in British schools. I have reason to suspect that the same sort of abuse of power is going on there.
16
I am shocked to see these comments invaded by the Know-Nothing brigades engorged on Trumpisms. I am about to turn 50 this year, for whatever that's worth in this discussion along age lines. But old people have been marinating in this tiresome nostalgia for too long.
The "good old days" are gone, and weren't even that good. (I was there for some of them.) The world IS global now, can't change that, and technology is washing away jobs right this second. Will Brexit leave Britons better able or less able to deal with the *current* world reality...not of pre-1973? I don't see how.
The train has left the station, old people. Either figure out how to get on board, or enjoy your misery on the sidelines. The world waits for no one.
The "good old days" are gone, and weren't even that good. (I was there for some of them.) The world IS global now, can't change that, and technology is washing away jobs right this second. Will Brexit leave Britons better able or less able to deal with the *current* world reality...not of pre-1973? I don't see how.
The train has left the station, old people. Either figure out how to get on board, or enjoy your misery on the sidelines. The world waits for no one.
273
"The train has left the station, old people"?
And you wonder why that lunatic Trump has risen so far and so fast?
And you wonder why that lunatic Trump has risen so far and so fast?
44
You're not that young either, not old mind you, but not young enough to call old people old. A lot of folks would argue the "good old days" with you. One never appreciates how good you have it 'till you lose it. The Brits got it back. GLobalism is just an extension of colonialism--a way to keep milking former colonies, and just like the citizens of the empire never enjoyed its fruits back then, they don't now. We used to have community and stability in America. Now we have iphones made in China for Americans who are underemployed, unemployed, still living with Mom and Dad, etc. Not a good scene. The Brits have been unhappy for a long time. And as another poster noted elsewhere, we Americans wouldn't stand for a North American Union with economic policies decided in Canada or Mexico City, so why should we blame the UK?
19
@tuesday
The sad thing is, this "old" trope you keep on repeating, starts to sound increasingly elitist ---
Not a very good sign for a "social revolution".
The sad thing is, this "old" trope you keep on repeating, starts to sound increasingly elitist ---
Not a very good sign for a "social revolution".
8
Well, at least they're old enough to remember what democracy is all about.
139
Shutting people out, keeping what's mine, and letting the businesses pay off Congress?
"If, for instance, European internal migrants really have lowered the wages in Britain, this is a serious problem. But it can be dealt with through, say, stricter control of the labor market — not abandonment of the entire framework for European cooperation."
This is only one tiny part of the problem. Almost everything to do with the "EU" is sick and destructive.
He mentions "European cooperation."
Cooperation is fine. Integration is a nightmare.
This is only one tiny part of the problem. Almost everything to do with the "EU" is sick and destructive.
He mentions "European cooperation."
Cooperation is fine. Integration is a nightmare.
37
Breaking up unions is not going to fix wealth inequality. It's like kicking the neighbor's dog because the roof is leaking; not only does it have nothing to do with the original problem, but it's also quite likely to leave you even worse off than when you'd started.
For those who want to spin this as a reaction to reduced opportunity for young people--then why are young people the ones who want to stay?
For those who want to spin this as a reaction to reduced opportunity for young people--then why are young people the ones who want to stay?
64
There is no need to panic Jochen... Europe will find ways to remain integrated on areas that are important.... Trade and Defense, while asserting their sovereign rights in the areas of immigration and monetary policy. For far too long the faceless bureaucrats in Belgium have been driven by the desire to interfere in ever more areas of life in order to assume more and more power for themselves. If Europe is smart this will end.
What you were seeing in Europe is just a small example of what we in The USA have been experiencing over the last 100 years as bureaucrats have ignored our Constitution and intruded into every aspect of our lives, gathering more and more power in the hands of unelected bureaucrats. No more.
What you were seeing in Europe is just a small example of what we in The USA have been experiencing over the last 100 years as bureaucrats have ignored our Constitution and intruded into every aspect of our lives, gathering more and more power in the hands of unelected bureaucrats. No more.
14
European academia has been vested in the Euro and the EU for the last 100 years -- that was the only line when I was in graduate school (London 1984). The EU would save them from another war and the Euro would cement the EU .. NATO was fine since the USA was paying the tab. Immigration .. that was free transfer ....nobody gave Turkey a thought.
Lots of people said it would not work -- smart people. They were dismissed .... I heard the same old "old men" statements ... or it was RR's fault ... this was before the wall came down.
None of this is a surprise -- it's been slowly happening for the past 5 years. The UK is tired of paying the freight ... just wait until the Germans get a taste of paying for it all.
Europe is not the USA -- Trying to create a federal society was fraught with dangers. Many of those .. now old men are the ones who voted to enter into this in the first place.
It failed ... It will be OK. The sun will come up tomorrow.
Lots of people said it would not work -- smart people. They were dismissed .... I heard the same old "old men" statements ... or it was RR's fault ... this was before the wall came down.
None of this is a surprise -- it's been slowly happening for the past 5 years. The UK is tired of paying the freight ... just wait until the Germans get a taste of paying for it all.
Europe is not the USA -- Trying to create a federal society was fraught with dangers. Many of those .. now old men are the ones who voted to enter into this in the first place.
It failed ... It will be OK. The sun will come up tomorrow.
24
"The EU would save them from another war" Well ... it has been over 70 years since there has been widespread war in Europe among the major powers. Given the frequency of war in Europe before that, I'd say the EU has at least met that promise.
"The UK is tired of paying the freight" The UK has benefited more than the cost, something it will find out once it no longer is within the EU.
It does look that the Brexit vote will accomplish things that over 100 years of struggle could not ... an independent Scotland and a united Ireland. Beware unintended consequences.
"The UK is tired of paying the freight" The UK has benefited more than the cost, something it will find out once it no longer is within the EU.
It does look that the Brexit vote will accomplish things that over 100 years of struggle could not ... an independent Scotland and a united Ireland. Beware unintended consequences.
2
"For the last 100 years," you mean going back to the depth of the Great War, WW I? Um, no.
2
No, EU had little or nothing to do with keeping peace. That was done by NATO and nuclear weapons.
Better get used to it sonny, since 'tis the way the world has always been.
You'll get your chance in about 2 decades - and will then rail at the young.
You'll get your chance in about 2 decades - and will then rail at the young.
20
Brexit and then nix the establishment career politicians in the USA. Angry old men all over are not going to take the politically correct nonsense anymore. These men remember the good old days and want to make their respective countries great again.
60
If it was great it was only for a few, entitled white men.
109
The "good old days" are a perennial myth.
12
Right on! No more politically correctness!! Facts, honesty and serious analysis certainly do get in the way. Let's stick 100% with opinions, the less grounded in reality the better. And courtesy and civility are way overrated. It's so much more satisfying to interrupt and yell and talk over people with different opinions. And yes, let's go back, way back, back to the days when the men who counted were white, and those other ones knew their place or were put in their place if they failed to go there on their own, and the days when women were doormats who either said yes or nothing at all.
But nonsense - no, please, don't get rid of nonsense. How could The Donald find anything to say at all if we banish nonsense
But nonsense - no, please, don't get rid of nonsense. How could The Donald find anything to say at all if we banish nonsense
12
i am and will always be pro United Europe. as an American born resident of Europe the past 46 years with actual war experience. i see too well the path down which the demagogues are leading the world. True, the younger generation must get involved and get voting. it is your future world that is at stake. Don't let the old idiots get their way. My generation is indeed the Lucky Generation, but we did have to work hard for our Causes and win our battles against many dificulties. The prize was worth the fight, so young men and women get fighting mad to protect and ensure yor future and a better worrld for all.
PS I wonder how many young Brits preferred to party at Glastonberry rather than to cast a ballot for their future?
PS I wonder how many young Brits preferred to party at Glastonberry rather than to cast a ballot for their future?
27
The problem was that the young did not vote. They have not learned that they should take part in the system even though they despise it. Interestingly, the young here in Canada have decided they have to vote. First, here in Toronto, they voted out Rob Ford and then, in the last general election voted out Harper. They have learned about strategic voting; too bad the UK young did not bother to learn about it.
68
Rob Ford had to get IN to get voted out. What exactly was that strategy?
This is the most tone-deaf insensitive thing I've read since Erick Erickson's "democracy be damned" a few months ago.
58
'We, the young, the future of Europe, must push back." - you the future, failed to vote.
93
From the responses here a lot of angry people in this world who intend to get revenge on what they perceive to be the status quo by hitting themselves in their own heads with a hammer in protest.
37
Heck, John, I think this was a great mistake, and articles from people like Bittner offend me, too. I can understand anger at a lot of what the EU's done, and how the bankers have treated nations of people, at the unfairness that has indeed been foisted on many who have done no wrongs. I still think that leaving was a mistake. But I've seen such insults now against those who voted to do it that I'm starting to thoroughly dislike my own side of the issue.
1
@John Klumquist
That may be because ito them it will feel good when they stop, whereas nothing feels very good right now...
That may be because ito them it will feel good when they stop, whereas nothing feels very good right now...
Well, Mr. Bittner, the good thing is you will soon (sooner than you think) be an old angry man. Looks like you have a head start. And just for the record, we older folks aren't all anxious and angry, Just as your generation aren't all nasty and rude.
236
The naive optimism of the young -- out of touch with the harsh and unforgiving realities of our selfish human nature -- is terrifying. One can only hope that, despite not getting the respect they deserve, the older generations today will continue to act and speak out to counteract the clueless and disrespectful generations of coddled dreamers.
39
How would you have liked it if the older generations had told you that when you were young? Do you realize how how come across? It's their time now. Their world, their future. We are the past. Deal with it.
1
As a whole, the older generations have ruined the future of human civilisation for the youngest humans. I'm not sure if the younger generation have a better answer but whatever the older generations have done overall since the 1970s and 1980s has been largely disastrous.
2
It is not disrespect, in the least, to acknowledge the new reality where economies are now intertwined to the point where one piece directly affects another. The generational disparate in this vote is just that.
1
" It was a victory for people who have neither the guts nor the imagination to take on the downsides of globalization. "
Immigrants and outsourcing jobs of all skill levels do take jobs from natives in all countries. I think if you pay attention to your community over time, you see that.
I just don't understand why we refuse to blame the real culprits - the employers who hire them.
Whether it's the local landscaping and construction and hotel and restaurant businesses or the giant corporations and their boards outsourcing, THEY are the ones who have lost all sense of societal and patriotic responsibility and obligation to their homelands, where ever that may be. And, they are the ones who do not have 'the guts or imagination' to think about anything but the next quarter's earnings and realize they are destroying their countries in while raking in more profits than they have use for.
Whether it's the US or UK and anywhere else, government's first responsibility is to its own citizens. When business and corporations are slapped into shape, whether by rational discussion or tax penalties to alter their behavior, governmental 'leaders' will have acquired 'the guts and imagination' to fix these problems.
The place we need to start is to end the deification of business.
Immigrants and outsourcing jobs of all skill levels do take jobs from natives in all countries. I think if you pay attention to your community over time, you see that.
I just don't understand why we refuse to blame the real culprits - the employers who hire them.
Whether it's the local landscaping and construction and hotel and restaurant businesses or the giant corporations and their boards outsourcing, THEY are the ones who have lost all sense of societal and patriotic responsibility and obligation to their homelands, where ever that may be. And, they are the ones who do not have 'the guts or imagination' to think about anything but the next quarter's earnings and realize they are destroying their countries in while raking in more profits than they have use for.
Whether it's the US or UK and anywhere else, government's first responsibility is to its own citizens. When business and corporations are slapped into shape, whether by rational discussion or tax penalties to alter their behavior, governmental 'leaders' will have acquired 'the guts and imagination' to fix these problems.
The place we need to start is to end the deification of business.
387
I agree, right on point. Misplaced aggression.
4
Sure, but what about K street? You talk about "government's responsibility to its own citizens," but fail to realize that government in reality sees its responsibility to K street, not the people as a whole. Do you really think that an elected representative would give equal or more shrift to a constituent, or a registered lobbyist from GE, with a campaign donation in hand? (GE's income taxes: ZERO! You as an individual paid more than GE!)
Do you think this rep would give you the same face time or accord the same importance to you, or to a representative from Raytheon, which probably has offices on all 50 states so that they can lobby every senator and representative. What chance do you think you have to be heard?
Do you think this rep would give you the same face time or accord the same importance to you, or to a representative from Raytheon, which probably has offices on all 50 states so that they can lobby every senator and representative. What chance do you think you have to be heard?
4
Well said. You've nailed it.
4
this essay does not motivate its argument from clearly defined facts. and this is a fundamental problem with the whole "globalist vs. nationalist" debate.
why for example is the "pressing weight of the developing world" a more serious problem then the wage impact of immigration, and why is "stricter control of the labor market" a more feasible solution than tighter border security?
setting aside the ad hominems tossed at those angry, paranoid, sclerotic, gutless, scapegoating, xenophobic old men of the establishment, aren't there serious issues involved here? what is the new "job security" to replace the traditional one? what are the new "democratic institutions" to replace the shopworn ones? who has globalization profited, or harmed? these issues are invoked as abstractions without any attempt to deal with the facts.
to my sensibility, the historical situation is approximately this: an unsustainable industrial infrastructure, a paralyzed or incompetent state bureaucracy, predatory corporations, hallucinatory politics, rapidly diminishing resources, corruption or breakdown of the rule of law, and increasing numbers of people in desperate or violent circumstances.
globalization has taken two steps forward, and now it is taking an enforced step back. to take the next two steps, first solve the problems that have already been created.
why for example is the "pressing weight of the developing world" a more serious problem then the wage impact of immigration, and why is "stricter control of the labor market" a more feasible solution than tighter border security?
setting aside the ad hominems tossed at those angry, paranoid, sclerotic, gutless, scapegoating, xenophobic old men of the establishment, aren't there serious issues involved here? what is the new "job security" to replace the traditional one? what are the new "democratic institutions" to replace the shopworn ones? who has globalization profited, or harmed? these issues are invoked as abstractions without any attempt to deal with the facts.
to my sensibility, the historical situation is approximately this: an unsustainable industrial infrastructure, a paralyzed or incompetent state bureaucracy, predatory corporations, hallucinatory politics, rapidly diminishing resources, corruption or breakdown of the rule of law, and increasing numbers of people in desperate or violent circumstances.
globalization has taken two steps forward, and now it is taking an enforced step back. to take the next two steps, first solve the problems that have already been created.
155
drollere: Your whole post begs the question, why are people supporting republicans? They are the ones who have demonized unions, wage increases, they have tried to gut SS and Medicare, they want no taxes to be paid by business, austerity for the rest of us. Really why are people voting in republicans? or in the UK Conservatives? who are advocating the same
9
Well stated, however, globalism is designed to exploit, not fix those problems. The only benefit of globalism is to prevent war, but that is not its purpose. It is designed to make money. It is designed to subvert the socio-economic conditions that made life decent in Europe and it has done the same in America. It has cured no ill, it has merely moved it off-shore, and in the case of the environment, probably made things worse.
Sovereignty lets people fight for their own interests and war is simply part of the human condition. Evil never goes away and every generation must learn to fight it. There is no utopia.
Sovereignty lets people fight for their own interests and war is simply part of the human condition. Evil never goes away and every generation must learn to fight it. There is no utopia.
94
I agree with you but you overlook the rising standard of living outside Europe and America that globalization has brought. Admittedly, uneven and corrupt, but when has it ever been otherwise?
1
The same mistake is being made on both sides of the pond. Instead of challenging the oppositions' positions on a case-by-case basis on the merits, the establishment is spending its time tarring those who do not agree with them as uneducated, white, racist, xenophobes. That may work to cause people to quiet down while in polite (establishment) company but it only helps to promote contrary action in the voting booth. The smug, sanctimonious nature of the Clinton campaign (like the Remain campaign) will be the cause of another great loss. If only they stuck to the high ground and left the mud slinging to Trump, the Leave campaign and their ilk they might actually change some minds and save us from the perils that they see so clearly.
52
Except that they don't have a legitimate response. The Remains should have been willing to alter the arrangement with Brussels, but when you don't have real democracy, there isn't enough pressure for that.
5
Except for the fact that the opponents' arguments are by and large racist, uneducated and, predominantly authored by white men. Why not call a spade a spade?
Apples and Oranges, Trump is not going to win for myriad reasons , running a scatter shot general election campaign being one of them.
Fool of a Took! Don't make this into an inter generational battlefield where the old are senile and the young enlightened, progressive. Do you really think people vote with their heads? No, they vote with their gut. Their gut is telling them that the elites are destroying their country, what they cherished, what they treasure. Whether Nigel is the answer, who knows? What they know is that this once in a lifetime opportunity, due to sheer luck, could be used to put the elites in their place.
Well done England. You won the battle. But the war to reclaim western civilization from these brilliant technocrats has just begun.
Well done England. You won the battle. But the war to reclaim western civilization from these brilliant technocrats has just begun.
28
French Revolution. Ring a bell? Yes, if we forget history, we are bound to repeat it.
Aside from whether the Brexit was good or bad, this is the direct result of far too many years of wage oppression, shrinking opportunities, and concerns being ignored (are you listening, US?).
Political and business leaders have been ignorant of and/or ignoring the average citizen's increasing unhappiness of constantly hearing how well "the economy" is doing, million-dollar CEO bonuses, revolving-door politicians/business leaders, etc, while they are worse off than they were thirty years ago.
Quelle surprise. It was really only a matter of time.
Aside from whether the Brexit was good or bad, this is the direct result of far too many years of wage oppression, shrinking opportunities, and concerns being ignored (are you listening, US?).
Political and business leaders have been ignorant of and/or ignoring the average citizen's increasing unhappiness of constantly hearing how well "the economy" is doing, million-dollar CEO bonuses, revolving-door politicians/business leaders, etc, while they are worse off than they were thirty years ago.
Quelle surprise. It was really only a matter of time.
40
Knowing that 52% of the voters voted to go back in time, instead of moving forward......means that we now know that 52% of those voters have a low IQ. And that's a lot for a so called "developed country". If the USA voters have the same level of IQ....Trump could win. But I can assure you, Trump will not win. Conclusion..... . It's so sad to know that now 48% of the smart Brittains have to live in such a country and have to face the troubles made by those low IQ's. I feel for them.
4
Concur. The current crop of unhappy campers, seeking isolation from a globalized world, will, in due time, lose its competitiveness and relevance in a fast-evolving technological environment. Further, it will put in danger the wonderful period, however flawed, of peace and prosperity. This, by hoping to 'regain' independence and fulfill a nostalgic past; but, truth be told,nostalgia of a more unequal place, pleasant for a minority, but fewer human rights at work and even at home for most, with transient relief of the carnage of wars the Europeans inflicted on each other with dogged brutality. Finally, the European Union was formed, with a shared currency but, to its loss, multiple political systems upset at being told by a few technocrats in Brussels what their limits were. Now, we are witness to new divisions, not conducive to a healthy integration... and the resultant peace and prosperity we got so used to, to the point of taking it for granted. We are going to face opportunists, charlatans and demagogues trying to destroy what took so long to build. Time will tell whether reason and logic will prevail, vs raw emotions to annihilate each other, its rich and inclusive diversity.
116
Great comment.
Where have you seen peace and prosperity the last 40 years, on the moon?
3
I don't want to be isolated. Keep the refugees coming. Take away my medical care and give it to them. I deserve to live in the street.
1
When you see Brexit as an example of "... they are obviously too sclerotic to imagine how democratic institutions can adjust to the new realities." Remember, you voted these angry old men into power. So maybe like the majority of voters in the UK - it is up to you to vote them out? Mr. Bittner don't you think it is time to "make YOUR country great?" This may be the first step. Occupy America.
3
Indeed, so thoroughly have the working class been abandoned by both the right (as a point of pride) and the left (with phony "I feel your pain" - but do nothing), that a rebellion was inevitable. It just manifested itself first in the UK. The USA working class is still running in circles due to right wing propaganda but beginning to catch on. Unfortunately the confusion is so great some seize on the irrational Trump while others the more rational Bernie. Hillary will ignore this demographic at her peril.
31
Push back? Another plebiscite? Maybe so, when you young guys make up a majority of the electorate. But you can't deprive the power of the vote to an older majority in favor of a younger minority. Or can you? Making this about age is ageist. There is no special perfume of knowledge, wit or common sense you get by being young. Though it has been argued and believed often that seniors do have more toned capabilities at reasoning and better, longer experiences to call on in making choices. You know what we say in English,"youth is wasted on the young". But you do sound a little bitter Herr Bittner. Ich weiss aber das ist nicht die Sache. But in truth what the English choose is not necessarily your business. The future is what we make it. It looks gloomy to most prognosticators today for many reasons. The union or dis-union of Europe are not high on the list of reasons for that. Though I know that Germany's future is in Europe because you're smack in the middle of it. That isn't necessarily the case for the Dutch, the Spanish or the Greeks. Europe has to prove itself. It hasn't done that very well since about 2008. Oder?
8
A quote on Brexit by one of those type of men:
"I think it’s comprehensible why this happened: first, no one wants to feed and subsidize poorer economies, to support other states, support entire nations,”
Who said this? Donald Trump? Sounds like him but perhaps a little too tame for his braggadocio style.
HIs brother from another mother Putin uttered this quote.
This should scare us that Trumpisms and Putinisms are so interchangeable.
"I think it’s comprehensible why this happened: first, no one wants to feed and subsidize poorer economies, to support other states, support entire nations,”
Who said this? Donald Trump? Sounds like him but perhaps a little too tame for his braggadocio style.
HIs brother from another mother Putin uttered this quote.
This should scare us that Trumpisms and Putinisms are so interchangeable.
7
What scares me is that someone from the richest, and one of the best educated states in the union, believes that she has penned an insightful comment.
1
Bill Clinton used to say you can't fight something with nothing. And right now, the people who believe in the benefits of the EU (myself included) have had nothing or very little to offer people who perceive the future of their communities being threatened and controlled by outsiders.
32
Unfortunately what was offered (as we see in America) is condescension, name calling, dismissive insults about race and age (the tired angry old white men nonsense), "ignorance" (I.e. having a different opinion), etc. Shocking to say, but you generally don't persuade people to your side or point of view with that approach.
8
The questions, albeit rhetorical, are WHY is their a huge influx of immigrants into Western Europe, and WHO is really responsible? Not so ironically, those who want to provide shelter and compassion to the homeless immigrants are not the ones who will face increasing competition for their jobs, housing, food, and medical care.
Everyone deserves to be fed, but taking from those who have the most to lose is a recipe for disaster. Make the rentiers, millionaires and billionaires absorb all the expense of taking care of the hungry. They're the ones that seek to benefit from cheap labor, greater company profits or higher stock valuations. It is high time we reverse 40 years of extraordinary wealth creation.
As the result of unprecedented wealth and income inequality, most people believe we are facing a return to robber barons and feudal times. In this election season in America, the establishment refused to acknowledge the anger and frustration of millions of citizens, young and old, who are genuinely suffering in the face of a tiny but intransigent percentage of the population that has accumulated massive amounts of wealth and income. The Republican Party is imploding and the Democrats will soon follow. Red flags are waving everywhere! I'm still holding out a little hope that the Fourth Estate will find its voice and advocate for the masses before all is lost.
Everyone deserves to be fed, but taking from those who have the most to lose is a recipe for disaster. Make the rentiers, millionaires and billionaires absorb all the expense of taking care of the hungry. They're the ones that seek to benefit from cheap labor, greater company profits or higher stock valuations. It is high time we reverse 40 years of extraordinary wealth creation.
As the result of unprecedented wealth and income inequality, most people believe we are facing a return to robber barons and feudal times. In this election season in America, the establishment refused to acknowledge the anger and frustration of millions of citizens, young and old, who are genuinely suffering in the face of a tiny but intransigent percentage of the population that has accumulated massive amounts of wealth and income. The Republican Party is imploding and the Democrats will soon follow. Red flags are waving everywhere! I'm still holding out a little hope that the Fourth Estate will find its voice and advocate for the masses before all is lost.
47
Red flags are waving and a lot of the people n the USA waving them are unapologetic gun singers. A recipe for disaster.
To paraphrase the late Senator from Nebraska, Roman Hruska; there are a lot of mediocre people and they are entitled to a little representation, aren't they, and a little chance? Brexit (and Trump) are the revenge of the mediocre people who are very angry and afraid from being left out. And the actions of out-of-touch elite leaders like Angela Merkel only added fuel to this dangerous fire.
24
Jochen Bittner: Funny how contradictory your column is. You started with "I WAS born in 1973"... / and ended with "We, the young, the future of Europe.." You are 42 - 43 years old, ..you are NOT young, you may have. what? 20, 30 left top. The world belongs to the millennials.
22
Delicious tears.
2
@hicoff
NO. The world belongs to those who are living -- Especially those able to see past man-made constructs that limits human rights to any one particular group.
THAT is what a REAL "revolution" is about = EQUALITY.
NO. The world belongs to those who are living -- Especially those able to see past man-made constructs that limits human rights to any one particular group.
THAT is what a REAL "revolution" is about = EQUALITY.
1
If the Brits believe that voting out is going to solve the downside of globalization
they are sadly mistaken. Remaining engaged is imperative. Isolationism is not.
they are sadly mistaken. Remaining engaged is imperative. Isolationism is not.
25
"Remaining engaged is imperative. Isolationism is not."
This is a great black-and-white simplification. Britain is absolutely in no danger of becoming isolated.
Also, would you advise someone to remain in a dysfunctional marriage? When a relationship does not work, you need to get out. It's the same thing with political and economic alliances.
This is a great black-and-white simplification. Britain is absolutely in no danger of becoming isolated.
Also, would you advise someone to remain in a dysfunctional marriage? When a relationship does not work, you need to get out. It's the same thing with political and economic alliances.
1
I am 56 and definitely voting for Hillary. Based on the age of people who voted to leave, Brexit, I hope this doesn't mirror here with support for Trump. Also interesting is that of ALL the leaders in the EU, the only woman, Angela Merkel is being blamed and it was Cox, a woman for the Remain side who was killed. Has any presidential candidate been more falsely vilified than Hillary? Is there more hate going on here than just xenophobia and racism?
214
Please...Hillary makes Richard Nixon look like a Boy Scout.
4
She is Nixon without the charm, as someone said.
Terri, you are supporting habitual liar and career criminal HRC? At 56, maybe you have slept through the Clintons' careers of shady deals and questionable ethics, so maybe you need a few more years of 'life experience' to get your thinking straight.
Not a word about traditional Europe, which is dying in the world that you would welcome. Not a word about radical Islam. Not a word about democracy and science. The gifts of Europe to the world. Great. You don't care. Old Men are the problem and they should simply go away. Sorry, Jochen. You were born in the wrong age to be proud. Your age is the way of surrender. Someday, you will be old, perhaps, perhaps. If you attain some age, you will finally know what the West is and perhaps was...
60
Excellent! Perfect tone; persuasive points. I hope it is not too late to implement them. Wrestling power away from these opportunistic "Angry Old Men" will not only be a floor fight, but a figurative knife fight as well. An ugly, all out brawl for hearts and minds. With Europe's low birth rate, it's going to be tough.
6
Who is in favor of globalization and unfettered immigration taking away jobs and lowering wages?
A. Employers who hire undocumented workers so they can exploit them with low wages, long hours and no benefits.
B. Consumers who spurn locally made items for the cheaper stuff at the big box stores.
C. Corporations and their stockholders who show profits only by lowering quality and service, and lowering labor costs by hiring the undocumented or by exporting jobs to countries whose citizens will work for low wages.
The Populist rage is being carefully misdirected to the group least responsible for the grievances - the immigrants. Ever wonder why employers can evade prosecution for hiring the undocumented? Ever wonder why one political party can talk about low wages and then support giving corporations even more tax breaks? People fall for this sleight of hand and then get mad at the Establishment when they get no help from the people they elected.
Immigration, globalization, technology and climate change are problems that require cooperation with many countries, not isolation and insularity.
A. Employers who hire undocumented workers so they can exploit them with low wages, long hours and no benefits.
B. Consumers who spurn locally made items for the cheaper stuff at the big box stores.
C. Corporations and their stockholders who show profits only by lowering quality and service, and lowering labor costs by hiring the undocumented or by exporting jobs to countries whose citizens will work for low wages.
The Populist rage is being carefully misdirected to the group least responsible for the grievances - the immigrants. Ever wonder why employers can evade prosecution for hiring the undocumented? Ever wonder why one political party can talk about low wages and then support giving corporations even more tax breaks? People fall for this sleight of hand and then get mad at the Establishment when they get no help from the people they elected.
Immigration, globalization, technology and climate change are problems that require cooperation with many countries, not isolation and insularity.
54
"These politicians — men and women, to be sure — are young enough not to have experienced world war, but they are old enough to idealize the pre-1989 era and a simpler, pre-globalization world."
Yes, surely no one knows better than a gen-X ageist with an axe to grind. Thank you for enriching us all by letting us drink from your vast fountain of wisdom, o wise one.
Yes, surely no one knows better than a gen-X ageist with an axe to grind. Thank you for enriching us all by letting us drink from your vast fountain of wisdom, o wise one.
44
I am old enough not old to remember war but to have fought fought in it too, albeit not the World War type. I know that the "goof old days" really were not that good unless one was rich (it was worse for persons of color but not so good for we non-rich white folks either). I also know that since Europe sought integration there have been no wars across Europe, whereas prior to that they occurred every few decades or so.
The path Britain is now embarking on is unlikely to end well for the English (the Scots and Irish likely having left the UK to remain in the EU). The old saying "be careful what you wish for, you just might get it" applies.
The path Britain is now embarking on is unlikely to end well for the English (the Scots and Irish likely having left the UK to remain in the EU). The old saying "be careful what you wish for, you just might get it" applies.
3
Oh, if only to be young again and know everything. I remember it well!
131
Mr. Bittner, you were born in 1973 which means you are about 43 years old. I hate to break it to you, but you aren't young anymore.
Those who wanted to stay in the EU want to blame the opposing side by denigrating them as old, racists, uneducated, etc. Perhaps, the majority understands that when Jamie Dimon of JP Morgan tells you to stay, you know you should take the opposite advice.
Those who wanted to stay in the EU want to blame the opposing side by denigrating them as old, racists, uneducated, etc. Perhaps, the majority understands that when Jamie Dimon of JP Morgan tells you to stay, you know you should take the opposite advice.
186
Angry old men? Mr. Bittner needs to look in the mirror. In this exercise in thinly-veiled hostility, he puts everyone who voted for Brexit as well as a host of other politicians across the globe and all of the supporters of those politicians into one big homogenous pot and smears them all with the same attack. He calls them angry, suffering from the disease of sclerosis, posturers and aggressive; he implies they are suicidal, reckless and murderous if followed; he calls them gutless and brainless maniacs; he smears them as dishonest, irrational fear-mongerers and implies they are unenlightened; he compares them to lust-driven bulldozers of demolition and implies they are enemies of progress whose lust cannot be mollified and who are incapable of cooperation.
He also conveniently omits statistics regarding how Britons between the ages of 24 and 50 voted.
It's the kind of irresponsible diatribe one would expect in a sloshy dark corner of a pub at the end of a long night, not printed in the Times.
He also conveniently omits statistics regarding how Britons between the ages of 24 and 50 voted.
It's the kind of irresponsible diatribe one would expect in a sloshy dark corner of a pub at the end of a long night, not printed in the Times.
68
“…they are obviously too sclerotic to imagine how democratic institutions can adjust to the new realities”
And how has “democratic” Brussels been doing with its adjustment to the new realities?
“… it can be dealt with through, say, stricter control of the labor market”
Best of luck with that.
“…it is dangerously foolish to believe that, with or without Ms. Merkel’s policies, Europe can somehow shut its door and ignore the pressing weight of the developing world on its borders — or that European countries are better positioned to respond individually, rather than as a unified whole.”
Please notify me immediately if the EU shows any signs of acting as a “unified whole”.
And how has “democratic” Brussels been doing with its adjustment to the new realities?
“… it can be dealt with through, say, stricter control of the labor market”
Best of luck with that.
“…it is dangerously foolish to believe that, with or without Ms. Merkel’s policies, Europe can somehow shut its door and ignore the pressing weight of the developing world on its borders — or that European countries are better positioned to respond individually, rather than as a unified whole.”
Please notify me immediately if the EU shows any signs of acting as a “unified whole”.
12
There may be truth in Bittner's column, but the arrogance with which it was delivered is so breath-taking that the good points are buried. Maybe try again, with a little less bashing of people who are older, and who have experienced much more than you, and thus have the wisdom that experience brings.
244
True they have experience in life but many of them are unable and bewildered by the new technology. That scares them and makes them yearn for the less technical days, i.e. their good ole days. The world will never go back. It never has.
1
Well said, Karen. I hope that Bittner reads and heeds it; he'll be the better for it.
1
The only ones who make out like bandits in this disaster are the really rich. The Kochs of the world will push this little guy against the big guy while they really give the shaft to the little guy all the time. My generation needs to die off so the world can live. My apologies to the young generation; we once knew better in the sixties but we sold out.
4
Molly, you're being hard on yourself. The current young, when they reach your age, will sell out, too.
9
we did not sell out. We were sold out. big difference.
2
Nah...you just grew up.
1
This dichotomy (old/young) is too simple... but regardless, there is significant danger on this turn against global realities and the pressures of immigration.
A rise in terrorism in England is a likely outcome and was one of the dangers an accommodating EU was designed to address.
In the U.S., it is said, eventually our immigrants become Americans through a process of successful assimilation. But resistance creates the opposite condition by hardening the differences and exacerbating tensions. Forces such as these tear down, rather than build up....
I fear very troubled times ahead for our friends in GB.... I hope I'm wrong...
A rise in terrorism in England is a likely outcome and was one of the dangers an accommodating EU was designed to address.
In the U.S., it is said, eventually our immigrants become Americans through a process of successful assimilation. But resistance creates the opposite condition by hardening the differences and exacerbating tensions. Forces such as these tear down, rather than build up....
I fear very troubled times ahead for our friends in GB.... I hope I'm wrong...
2
"Brexit and Europe’s Angry Old Men"
Hey, you left out a word between "Old" and "Men" you know that bigoted, racist descriptive word on which liberal progressives love to blame all the ills of the world.
Hey, you left out a word between "Old" and "Men" you know that bigoted, racist descriptive word on which liberal progressives love to blame all the ills of the world.
19
I agree with this sentiment. It is very possible that Germany's and Merkel's welcoming of Middle Eastern immigrants contributed to this. And this is sad, when principle is trumped by racism and fear.
7
Yea, Merkel "welcomed" the immigrants and then immediately started pressuring the rest of Europe to take them off her hands. All by diktat. I don't think the Brits want to live under a German or EU dictator.
2
Amazing that you blame "the Farages of the world" for starting an ideological war, when the fact is that this war has been waged by the elites against the people for at least a generation or more. It sounds like you're just upset that someone finally noticed.
139
Nigel Farage is part of the 1% as were most of the "leaders" pushing Brexit. They are not on the side of the common people who will bear the brunt of this decision. They were just clever enough to convince voters to vote against their best interests.
1
one "small" quibble, Mr. Bittner:
it is estimated that the age group 35-44 voted 52% to 48% to stay...
i would wager that the 43-44 subset of this group overwhelming voted to LEAVE ...
what say ye now?
4
Shame on you Jochen Bittner for being sexist and discriminating on the basis of age. Is that really what you think this is all about? Its that simple, huh?
119
Oh, look, a German nationalist who doesn't want to lose his European colonies to democracy and independence.
71
I am surprised anyone is shocked by this vote.
The UK is one of the strongest countries in the world: why would her citizens want to be tied down or considered equal to failed/failing South European countries?
You are right that Merkel is partly the cause of this.
Whilst I plan to visit Scotland and France this fall and take advantage of my stronger currency, I will stay away from Germany as I do not want to worry about my daughter being assaulted by all those young adult boys who recently entered Germany, from failed nations, in search of German handouts
The UK is one of the strongest countries in the world: why would her citizens want to be tied down or considered equal to failed/failing South European countries?
You are right that Merkel is partly the cause of this.
Whilst I plan to visit Scotland and France this fall and take advantage of my stronger currency, I will stay away from Germany as I do not want to worry about my daughter being assaulted by all those young adult boys who recently entered Germany, from failed nations, in search of German handouts
29
If you are not prepared to visit Germany, overrun, as you say, with the scourge of these "failed nations"...perhaps you might find it in your Texas heart to send flowers to these "failed nations" for planting alongside the bomb craters. Now that you are able to take advantage of your stronger currency...I would hope you could send at least a couple of roses.
When George W. Bush invaded Iraq and toppled their government, Iraqis quickly reverted to tribalism. Family, clan and religion became paramount. It was tempting to our western minds to attribute that to a Middle-Eastern, or backward, or Muslim culture. We were different. Better.
Now we have blatant appeals to xenophobia playing major roles in Brexit, U.S. and Canadian elections, all within the span of one year. People are people, and many of us are low hanging fruit to those who preach fear for their own ends.
Now we have blatant appeals to xenophobia playing major roles in Brexit, U.S. and Canadian elections, all within the span of one year. People are people, and many of us are low hanging fruit to those who preach fear for their own ends.
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Beside some very conceptual similarities this is a very wild comparison. The true defining characters of the tribalism in Iraq was it's shocking brutality. You can argue that there is differences among different segments of the European population, but no one is being dressed in orange jump suits and beheaded in front of a camera, no one is being kidnapped and found dead with nails in their body, broken bones and electric drill holes, and so on and so forth. The democratic process has held in Europe, if you do not like that they have different views from yours, well, you can always deal with it at the voting both.
1
Just want to point out that when GWB invaded Iraq, he had the backing of both Houses of Congress, including a majority of Democrats in both houses, and an actual coalition of countries. In terms of alliance-building, the accomplishment is leaps and bounds above anything the Obamao Regime has ever managed.
a) who says the 'ordinary' are 'decent'?
b) Jochen, you're absolutely right - oddly, the young are on the right side of history, and the old... well, they're senile. They've forgotten their history, if they ever knew it.
b) Jochen, you're absolutely right - oddly, the young are on the right side of history, and the old... well, they're senile. They've forgotten their history, if they ever knew it.
5
If this article is any indication, the left will learn nothing from this vote. Those who've dared to dissent from their borderless utopias have long since become accustomed to being branded racists, xenophobes, angry, old, ignorant, etc. Better go back to the drawing board. You've overplayed your hand.
20
Do you realize that a significant chunk of the exit vote was from the hard left "old" Labour party?
1
Jochen,
When you say "we" must fight the Right, it seems like you don't understand that your political posturing has actually been feeding the rise of the Right.
Like PM Cameron's dishonest blathering on the Greek debt and Syrian refugees, you have definitely helped stoke the fire.
When you say "we" must fight the Right, it seems like you don't understand that your political posturing has actually been feeding the rise of the Right.
Like PM Cameron's dishonest blathering on the Greek debt and Syrian refugees, you have definitely helped stoke the fire.
10
That gentleman on the right of the photo and the three young men celebrating on the front page today don't exactly look old to me. Easy way to make a statement, but it doesn't work and you alienate potential allies...young and old on both sides. Optimism is not only a state for the young.
9
Unfortunately, sour young apples don't fall very far from their angry old trees.
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I might add that Mr. Bittner is 43 (born in 1973) -- that's not ancient, but it is definitely middle aged.
To make this "young vs. old" is simplistic and antagonistic.
To make this "young vs. old" is simplistic and antagonistic.
2
The "appeal to novelty" is a logical fallacy wherein something is judged to be better simply because it is new and modern. The main thrust of this article seems to be a variation of this fallacy wherein some idea is better simply because it is liked by those dynamic and optimistic young people, in contrast to those awful sclerotic and frowny old people. And of course 42-43 year old Bittner conveniently places himself on the good side of this divide in contrast to "old" people such as Marine Le Pen (aged 47) and Farage and Wilders (aged 52 both). There are good anti-Brexit arguments to be made - but this isn't it.
28
So, Mr. Bittner, are you one of Europe's angry "young" men? And I guess no women voted....congratulations on the speed of your demographic study.
30
The problem with this argument is that the ONLY way EU elites respond to real problems of real people is when they are forced to. Hence this vote. Let the elites earn back the trust of people. (You could start by jailing the bankers who stole Greece from the Greeks.) What a refreshing sight that would be.
So, too, in the USA.
So, too, in the USA.
211
I think we've got a slightly different problem in the US, when "real people" with "real problems" choose a nut like Trump over a true anti-establishment candidate like Sanders--try imagining Trump jailing any bankers that were part of the 2008 meltdown!
6
Beware the fury of patient men.
8
It amazes me how many current politicians cling to nostalgia for pre-globalization days. As if we can ever go back to a time when any country could exist in isolation.
The UK and the US (at least Trump supporters) are displaying an alarming lack of imagination. We must accept the world as it is and work to make our respective countries the best they can be within the confines of globalization. That goes for people who claim to be disaffected - find a way to be relevant now instead of pining for the 1950s.
The UK and the US (at least Trump supporters) are displaying an alarming lack of imagination. We must accept the world as it is and work to make our respective countries the best they can be within the confines of globalization. That goes for people who claim to be disaffected - find a way to be relevant now instead of pining for the 1950s.
15
The lack of imagination are from those who created the EU. Who said anything about the isolation of Britain? The "Remain" sayers did. a complete falshood.
2
Stop patting yourself on the back and remember that someday you'll get old, too, and will probably not want to be thrown under the bus by some yuppie who doesn't care if you're 50 years old and can't find a job that pays a living wage. Yeah, remember those old guys who paid taxes all those years to build the infrastructure you use, who funded your schools, who maybe raised you or your friends, and taking care of aging parents or spouses.
Ingrate.
Ingrate.
419
Josh Bittner, the foolish, clueless millenial
11
At least in the U.S., the angriest older if not old men have been and are still electing mostly angry old men who keep taxes low at the expense of infrastructure, education and programs to help take care of the aging.
And many of the educated younger people who would be yuppies and/or would be middle-class citizens and who would likely be glad to pay income taxes also feel like they have been thrown under a bus in a broken and unfair capitalistic system.
And many of the educated younger people who would be yuppies and/or would be middle-class citizens and who would likely be glad to pay income taxes also feel like they have been thrown under a bus in a broken and unfair capitalistic system.
16
Many thousands of British pensioners live in southern Europe both for the pleasant climate and the lower cost of living that they can afford. Their pensions come in pounds, but they pay their expenses in euros. Many will be shut out by the pound's dramatic fall, return to Britain, and be supported by social welfare systems. That is also ingratitude by the Brexiteers.
5
Overreaction, much? People just want representation and not a bunch of unelected bureaucrats in Brussels making decisions affecting their lives.
52
The unelected bureaucrats in Brussels are a perfect example of the parasitic, bureaucratic vermin that infest all levels of government everywhere. The world would be a far better place without them.
6
All the world's problems are caused by angry men, and mostly by the angry old ones. Case closed.
6
52% of the votes cast were by Angry old Men? afraid not. In a fantasy world maybe but not in the UK yesterday.
13
For almost a decade now the EU has suffered economic stagnation and very high rates of unemployment in many of the individual states. Germans seem remarkably unconcerned about that as long as Germany itself has low unemployment. I would hope that the citizens of Germany take a closer look at how much it would cost them to let up a bit on austerity compared to the cost of losing major parts of the EU in the near future. Germans should also think about the cost to Germany of containing Russia's military ambitions if England is no longer part of the EU.
12
Anyone who thinks that the young don't care about democracy needs to wake up! To try and paint Brexit as a young v. Old issue is just as untethered to reality as the claim that all of the people who supported Brexit are racist bigots.
Unelected bureaucrats making choices about how people should live isn't any FORM of democracy. It is unfortunate that those "leaders" and pundits who wanted to remain still refuse to do any self examination to determine why people don't trust them. But never mind they just pigeon hole any one who disagrees with them as racists, bigots or uneducated fools and move on. It's that exactly why Brexit won? Humans are tired of being ignored ands demeaned.
Unelected bureaucrats making choices about how people should live isn't any FORM of democracy. It is unfortunate that those "leaders" and pundits who wanted to remain still refuse to do any self examination to determine why people don't trust them. But never mind they just pigeon hole any one who disagrees with them as racists, bigots or uneducated fools and move on. It's that exactly why Brexit won? Humans are tired of being ignored ands demeaned.
118
Yes, but what if they really are (for the most part) "uneducated fools"?
5
Where were all the remain voters in Scotland and Ireland on Thursday during the vote? Sitting at home, apparently assuming that Brexit had no chance and their vote wasn't needed.
The problem with cynicism in the voter's attitude is they forget that their vote may actually still have some value.
A painful lesson to learn!
The problem with cynicism in the voter's attitude is they forget that their vote may actually still have some value.
A painful lesson to learn!
11
No longer a British possession but an independent republic, Ireland didn't vote in the referendum. Both Scotland and Northern Ireland did & they voted quite handily to remain.
17
You ignore the possibility that some Leave voters sat at home because they thought they couldn't win.
Angry old men did not disassemble Britain's exit, since the beginning Britain was reluctant, a "democratic" vote says it all.
5
This is a fantastic OP-ED and I believe really captures what is really at the core of the political movement of the angry rabble of this world.
Thanks to Jochen for the enlightenment and thoughtful writing. I hope he and others like him in Europe can wrest control from those "Angry Old Men" before it is too late.
I think, therefore NEVER Trump...
Thanks to Jochen for the enlightenment and thoughtful writing. I hope he and others like him in Europe can wrest control from those "Angry Old Men" before it is too late.
I think, therefore NEVER Trump...
32
I, as an "old" lady (D.O.B. 1939), agree with Jochen Bittner.
We, in 2016, live in a global world & have for some time now.
As the song goes, "Oh, when will they ever learn" ?
When are we going to learn to compromise ?
...... to stop fearing "the other" ?
The world seems to me, today, like a turtle, who's quickly tucking it's head in under it's shell.
We, in 2016, live in a global world & have for some time now.
As the song goes, "Oh, when will they ever learn" ?
When are we going to learn to compromise ?
...... to stop fearing "the other" ?
The world seems to me, today, like a turtle, who's quickly tucking it's head in under it's shell.
67
It's funny how the middle class is supposed to give up their standard of living to elevate 'others' but not the rich. If anything they have taken advantage of the situation to consolidate their wealth and power.
33
a global world created by the big multinational corporatins who look out only for themselves and not the working and poor classes. here it was Regan and Bush Sr. with their "New World Order" philosophy and policies. Today here in the U.S the rich are much richer , the poor much poorer and middle class about to disappear into netherland. Where have you been these past 30 years, and especially the last 8 years? Better an isolationist than a corporate conformist.
17
When are people like you going to learn to care about the wages of those around you?
5
You the young need to go out and vote! I was appalled to learn this morning that some of my (young) British friends who are pro-EU did not even vote. How does that help in a referendum?
74
I think that some, maybe even most, young people know instinctively that they don't understand enough to cast an informed vote. That's why many young people didn't and don't vote.
2
Not vote? No surprise. All talk, no action. All hat and no cattle... Barstool philosophers...
1
Yes, younger voters will not let the older angry voters railroad them. And if in the US HRC wants those younger voters to move from Bernie to her, then time is long overdue for corporate media like the NYT to stop denigrating them.
14
As an American who lived many years in Europe, I think it's a lot more complicated than that. The euro was a huge mistake; Germany's insistence on austerity is a huge mistake. Germany benefits from an artificially low exchange rate, refuses to share the wealth generated by that exchange rate, and forces poorer countries like Greece to endure economic pain equal to 1933. It's no wonder the same things are happening anew - failed economic policies lead to social unrest, inevitably.
My years in London taught me that the British love to hate the EU, but they benefit from it overall. Unfettered immigration, however - more of the failed economic policies - will also lead to social unrest, as we see now.
Cameron made huge mistakes - imposing austerity when it is counterproductive, and calling for a referendum on something most people don't understand. It should be no surprise that the uneducated are the ones who voted most overwhelmingly to leave - they're also the ones who overwhelmingly support Donald Trump in this country.
My years in London taught me that the British love to hate the EU, but they benefit from it overall. Unfettered immigration, however - more of the failed economic policies - will also lead to social unrest, as we see now.
Cameron made huge mistakes - imposing austerity when it is counterproductive, and calling for a referendum on something most people don't understand. It should be no surprise that the uneducated are the ones who voted most overwhelmingly to leave - they're also the ones who overwhelmingly support Donald Trump in this country.
458
France will be next given the current domestic problems and protests by most of the unionized work force as we have seen these past few weeks.
3
I pretty much agree with all that Steve says, but ultimately blame rests with voters. When the problem in a recession is austerity, and voters vote for austerity candidates who create unfounded fears about government deficits and inflation versus reasoned voices to spend on infrastructure and provide unemployment benefits to the unemployed, then the mistakes lie with the voters. And when austerity exacerbates the problems, they blame government even more.
4
Commenter Steve in NY says 'the uneducated are the ones who voted most overwhelmingly to leave - they're also the ones who overwhelmingly support Donald Trump in this country.'
Steve's comment seems insightful to me but it is puzzling that Trump primary voters are significantly wealthier than other Republican primary voters. There is no similar difference between Bernie and Hillary voters.
This data is presented by former NYTimes statistics columnist Nate Silver on his website 538.com and it is not a misinterpretation or a statistical fluke. Silver is far too professional for that and he discusses the methods behind the claim (based on exit polls).
What does it mean, if true? It may mean that Trump voters are not the uneducated and underemployed, but possibly the over educated people who no longer get to hire and fire because they too are being ground down by the oligarchs of the 1%. Inheritance must be taxed. Power must be taken away from these angry privileged people.
To see what else is needed go to YouTube and watch Comedy Party Platform (2 min 9 sec). Invite me to speak, keep America great. Thanks. [email protected]
Steve's comment seems insightful to me but it is puzzling that Trump primary voters are significantly wealthier than other Republican primary voters. There is no similar difference between Bernie and Hillary voters.
This data is presented by former NYTimes statistics columnist Nate Silver on his website 538.com and it is not a misinterpretation or a statistical fluke. Silver is far too professional for that and he discusses the methods behind the claim (based on exit polls).
What does it mean, if true? It may mean that Trump voters are not the uneducated and underemployed, but possibly the over educated people who no longer get to hire and fire because they too are being ground down by the oligarchs of the 1%. Inheritance must be taxed. Power must be taken away from these angry privileged people.
To see what else is needed go to YouTube and watch Comedy Party Platform (2 min 9 sec). Invite me to speak, keep America great. Thanks. [email protected]
1
The failures of pro-globalization elites both in Europe and the United States have ignited this reaction among people, mostly white and working class, who feel marginalized and alienated by visions of an integrated, multi-colored but (economically and technologically) hierarchical society. The elites should have seen this coming and realized that the utopia they have been constructing is more like a colonial-era "plural society" - where each racial group advances its interests at the expense of the others while a colonial elite remains firmly in power - than a genuine democracy. We see the same thing happening in America, a country where "you can be black or brown, yellow or white, immigrant or native-born, disabled or able-bodied, male or female, straight or gay, 'Cis-gender' or queer, old or young, but you CANNOT be poor or poorly educated."
158
I honestly don't know if you really can lay the blame for transformation of jobs, technology and global competition on governing elites. All of the changes that we include under the term globalization may indeed be making it harder to be poor and poorly educated than at any other time in world history, and while politicians might've done more to shield people from the worst EFFECTS of it, what else could they have done even if they DID see this coming? High tariffs? closed borders? Mass deportations? currency manipulations? Short of radical economic nationalism and police states, did the pro-globalization elites really have any alternative to this "plural society" that you're describing?
2
I keep wondering if the elites will wake up before we reach the point that they each need a private army and there literally are no longer any people to either make or purchase whatever it is that keeps the wealth flowing. Or if there will be a true revolt first. Either way, they don't seem to realize they are slitting their own throats.
1
You use this as a throwaway line, Mr. Bittner, "Yes, globalization and Europeanization have taken their tolls, both on traditional forms of democracy and on traditional job security." Do you have a clue? THAT is the problem - the grotesque wealth inequality and socialized costs shouldered by the middle and poor classes. People are done with waiting for their leaders - who are owned by the top 1% global financial elite (i.e. Cameron/Rupert Murdoch) to do anything for the other 99% of us. Wake UP! Here is how bad wealth inequality is in America:
http://mashable.com/2013/03/02/wealth-inequality/
http://mashable.com/2013/03/02/wealth-inequality/
475
Spot on- and both our presidential candidates are in the top 1% and they haven't a clue between them to realize how disparate it has become, how angry people are, and how disgusted with politics and politicians, they (we) are.
11
You focus on admission of the problem, but the real issue is the thinking that both baby and bathwater must go. I see that corrupted institution, and I see you and others throwing rocks through the windows. What I wonder is what plans you have for a new building, and how thoroughly they've been thought out.
11
The North American politicians and media are terribly out-of-step and simply guessing with their analysis of Britain's exit from the E.U. Obama who has never made a good political decision in 8 years, further demonstrated his tone deafness with a trip to England to threaten how he would punish the people if they voted to leave! - Unbelievable - Obama's pathetic political meandering.
6