I can't look at the photo of this precious two year old without tearing up. I cannot imagine how this family will ever recover. For those blaming the parents or congratulating themselves on how they would have handled things differently, have some humanity -- the only appropriate response to a tragedy of this magnitude is to express profound regret and sympathy for the family.
96
It amazes me that there are so many postings here from people in other parts of the US who were unaware of the alligator problem in Florida. Although, it is not really a "problem" so much as the nature of the natural world that contains the state of Florida. Reports of alligators attacking or killing humans DO appear frequently enough in the news that I would have thought the average US traveler would be aware. Here's a 2006 article in the NYT where a representative of the Florida Wildlife service says, quite forcefully, IF YOU DON'T WANT TO COME IN CONTACT WITH AN ALLIGATOR, STAY AWAY FROM FLORIDA: http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/16/us/16gator.html?action=click&conte...®ion=Marginalia&pgtype=article. This article goes on to describe how 3 women had been killed by alligators that week alone in different parts of Florida. A 4th women had been bitten by an alligator while she was watering plants in her backyard.
Yesterday on my NYT app there was a link I cannot now find to a 1988 NYT article about how the increasing presence of humans in southcentral Florida (read retirees from the Midwest and Northeast) had resulted in a sharp increase in the number of alligator attacks or contacts and how the Wildlife Service and state-approved alligator hunters deal with controlling the situation.
My in-laws from midwest retired to Florida and constantly find alligators in their backyard and on their club's golf course. How do people not know this?
Yesterday on my NYT app there was a link I cannot now find to a 1988 NYT article about how the increasing presence of humans in southcentral Florida (read retirees from the Midwest and Northeast) had resulted in a sharp increase in the number of alligator attacks or contacts and how the Wildlife Service and state-approved alligator hunters deal with controlling the situation.
My in-laws from midwest retired to Florida and constantly find alligators in their backyard and on their club's golf course. How do people not know this?
34
Honestly, I don't know much about where in Nebraska these people came from but I get the impression it isn't a huge town. I doubt they get a lot Florida news there. Down in the south where you and I live, we hear the stories a lot. Maybe everyone assumes the alligator threat is well known and maybe it is not. I don't know anything about the dangers in Nebraska but that doesn't mean there aren't any. I might have felt some blame for the parents if they had been raised here, but they weren't. Basically what happened to them was a recurring nightmare I used to have when my kids were little. I'm just sick over it.
36
Had I been in a wilderness area, or even just an ordinary developed area near water -- then yes, I perhaps would have thought about alligators. This was neither. This was a carefully designed and constructed tourist park, one that appeals especially to families with young children. This was an artificial lake, with a beautiful sand beach, and child-friendly activities. This was a young family from Nebraska. It strikes me as frankly criminal that there was no mention of alligators on the sign. How hard would it have been? Where I live, hiking trails always start with signage about mountain lions, including how to hike with young children so that they are not in jeopardy. It would have been so so very easy to mention alligators on the "no swimming" sign. Common decency required it, I think.
77
Not clear from the press reports who else saw the alligator get the child, besides the father. Also, there was an initial report that the child's body was intact-not consistent with alligator bite-. A later report spoke about 'traumatic injury' but no description.
I am sure the final report will clarify these points, to put this very sad matter to rest.
I am sure the final report will clarify these points, to put this very sad matter to rest.
10
My thoughts our with these parents. I feel so bad their boy had to die because of the stupid negligence of a multi-billion dollar company. Disney should keep all guests safe. Swimming is not the same as splashing on the water's edge. The gator control unit wasn't doing their job. Disney is liable for this, but what price is the equivalent of a child?
30
I was in Central FL last week and a man's body was seen in an alligator's mouth in Lakeland. The body was later recovered. Alligator attacks are probably more common than the tourism industry would like you to believe.
That said, my parents would never had allowed me into a body of natural or man-made water at 9:30 at night when I was two years old -- signs or no signs, alligators or no alligators.
When my son was two years old, he was in bed at 9:30 pm. These children were 2 and 4 years old. Why take them to Disney at that age? They're too young. Why have them out at night, whether there is or isn't a movie being shown? What on earth are people thinking? Put your toddlers to bed at night and postpone Disney until they are old enough to appreciate and remember it. It's common sense.
That said, my parents would never had allowed me into a body of natural or man-made water at 9:30 at night when I was two years old -- signs or no signs, alligators or no alligators.
When my son was two years old, he was in bed at 9:30 pm. These children were 2 and 4 years old. Why take them to Disney at that age? They're too young. Why have them out at night, whether there is or isn't a movie being shown? What on earth are people thinking? Put your toddlers to bed at night and postpone Disney until they are old enough to appreciate and remember it. It's common sense.
55
Please don't share your opinions in public again.
64
I've been a Florida residents for the past 36 years and living here I'm aware that alligators can be found in canals ponds and any standing body of water. With that being said, tourist who come from all over the world to a well known theme park Walt Disney World should expect to be safe from man eating alligators coming out of their Lagoon areas, attacking and eating people. This family was on holiday and enjoying their vacation. Why are the children up late? past their bedtime? because they were on VACATION!!! I live in South Florida and do you know what they have posted at the canals in my neighborhood, beware of alligators signage. Why a multi-billion-dollar company like Disney knowing that alligators do get into their lagoons and man-made lake areas where people congregate but yet do not post the proper signage of alligator warnings is disgusting and libelous. This family is devastated not only is there two year old child dead but they had to watch him be dragged to his watery grave. Now they live with that memory forever being unable to help to save him. My heart goes out to this family and Disney World is 100% at fault.
91
I am very sad for the family and friends. i am a father and this would be heartbreaking. However, before people get on their high horses and want to blame anyone other than those responsible for raising their children, keep in mind that every person who is the age of a parent should know that alligators live in Florida. They should know that alligators are dangerous; that is their nature -- period. Grizzly bears live near Yellowstone and in Alaska. They are dangerous. That is how God made these creatures (or how time, chance, energy, and mutation made them, if you are a metaphysical naturalist). As the spokesman for the biologists says, “Anywhere there is standing water, an alligator might be found.” We parents must take care of our children and then when accidents happen, mourn, accept responsibility, face the realities of the world, and depend on friends to surround us and comfort us. No one should be blaming, blaming, blaming someone else (e.g., Disney). Americans need to grow up and know the realities of danger in the natural world and be responsible.
31
I do agree with some of what you are saying, however Disney strives to uphold this illusion of "the happiest place on earth", where it's easy to forget the true dangers of the outside world. When you are there you feel you are in a place where this could never happen. I'm sure the parents would have assumed the park had made sure there were no dangerous wildlife lurking (though many of us know that's impossible). Personally, I wouldn't have let my kids play there by the water, but I'm a native and aware of the dangers and the ubiquity of alligators. I guarantee had the boy's parents knew that alligators could be near they would have kept him away from the water.
37
So now there is documentation that there was a serious but nonfatal alligator attack on Disney property, in the connected lake to the lagoon mentioned, in 1986. Somehow Disney didn't have this in its records, despite it being in the local paper AND a photo of Snow White and Mickey visiting him in the hospital. He was feeding ducks at the edge, not even in the water. So Disney KNEW it was a possibility, but just either forgot it or hoped it would never happen again. Just disgusting.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/man-attacked-alligator-1986-dis...
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/man-attacked-alligator-1986-dis...
29
There is no reason to even have alligators in this resort. Have the lake but kill any gator that enters. This is all on Disney. Somebody walking or wading in the edge IS NOT SWIMMING and no swimming signs do not keep people from the waters edge, a gator or croc will come out of the water too.
This lake should be gator free, I don't care if they are endangered. Cincinnati did the right thing.
This lake should be gator free, I don't care if they are endangered. Cincinnati did the right thing.
19
The only way to make this lake "gator free" is to fill it in. That's the honest truth. They are constantly on the move and can spend extended time under water. Just because you don't see one doesn't mean it is not there. Proper education of our visitors and of course adequate signage would be more beneficial. Native Floridians don't exactly want our home state turned into a parking lot to keep tourists happy, but we care about their safety. True native Floridians have learned to live side by side with nature and we need to help our state's visitors learn how to be safe as well.
28
You are so wrong on the gators and Cincinnati.
Why don't humans take responsibility for their negligence in caring for their young.
You should just stay in your own backyard in Indiana.
Why don't humans take responsibility for their negligence in caring for their young.
You should just stay in your own backyard in Indiana.
23
They didn't put theme there, they came on their own.
8
A "No Swimming" sign is entirely inadequate to protect guests. Years ago Disney actually did allow swimming in their freshwater "lakes" however there are many other dangers in addition to alligators in these types of bodies of water. Back in the 1980's two children who visited the Disney water park River Country, died as a result of contracting a type of amoeba that thrives in Florida freshwater lakes in the summer. You can become infected just by accidentally getting water up your nose. Parents from other parts of the country might have been interested in knowing of that risk. Florida also is home to the water moccasin, an aquatic pit viper which can be aggressive. We also have soft-shelled turtles and alligator snapping turtles which can grow large and while not deadly can cause the loss of a finger or toe. As a Florida parent this is what I think of when I see a Florida "lake". The fact that Disney's most luxurious hotel has a beach implies that you can dip your feet in the water as long as you are not swimming.
I find it especially disturbing that because Disney hotels did not provide guests with proper "alligator etiquette" , visitors unwittingly emboldened these animals by feeding them.
I find it especially disturbing that because Disney hotels did not provide guests with proper "alligator etiquette" , visitors unwittingly emboldened these animals by feeding them.
31
I apologize I was mistaken, only one child died from contracting an amoeba at Disney property.
9
Why on earth do they have man-made "sand beaches" around a body of water which is not for swimming or entering??? Stupid. Why not have a boardwalk around it so people don't wade in the water? I guess, like the boarwalks at the Yellow Stone Geysers and hot springs, people would still not stay on the boardwalks and wander off of them.
13
Only this past week a couple of tourist left the boardwalk in Yellowstone, and walked to close to a small geyser or "hot pot". The man fell in and was dissolved within minutes. Yes, DISSOLVED. People are stupid and you can only protect them so much. Eventually, it becomes a question of personal responsibility.
29
As a parent I never ever would have let my two year old wade in no swimming waters at night with a no swimming sign , even with no sign. Night waters are not to be waded in. Is the water dirty who knows? That is what pools are for at resorts to swim in. Sorry, yet another case of parents making poor choices and everyone paying the price for it.
33
I agree completely with you
18
"Everyone" is paying the price? Everyone?
19
The alligators are out of control in Florida. Usually animals have depredators, otherwise too many can threaten peoples life and become top of the chain food. I understand to re instate wild animals into the wild world, but were the is human population, first is protect people and then animals, not the opposite!
In Canada hunting season is permitted when overpopulations of certain animals are growing. In urban places and small towns animals that can threaten life are removed to wild environments.
This is not just Disney's fault. It is also government lac of duty to protect peoples life!
In Canada hunting season is permitted when overpopulations of certain animals are growing. In urban places and small towns animals that can threaten life are removed to wild environments.
This is not just Disney's fault. It is also government lac of duty to protect peoples life!
9
There is an official alligator hunting season. Also if nuisance alligators are reported they will be removed. It appears that Disney guests have been feeding the alligators which encourages them to come up to people. The key is educating people about alligators. Wouldn't it have been great if Florida hotels situated near water made the effort to educate their guests? It is ILLEGAL to feed a wild alligator in Florida, a law created to prevent tragedies such as this one.
14
They do have gator hunting season in FL. But the have as much right to the water as anything, or anybody else.
12
Imo this is the parents fault for not watching their child. A two year old playing by water at night time. Makes no sense to me!
When my children were that age, I had to watch them like crazy because they were in everything!!
Kid could have drown or got kidnapped etc in this case taken by a gator.
When my children were that age, I had to watch them like crazy because they were in everything!!
Kid could have drown or got kidnapped etc in this case taken by a gator.
21
First, and foremost I pray for this family, I don't believe that the family is not criminally liable, they were just enjoying the surrounding that were offered, and they were obeying the sign' NO SWIMMING'. The child was not swimming. Im 49 years old, being that I was born, and raisesd in Fl, I learnd at a very young age, that you best assume that every perminant body of water has a gator, and most cases it does, man made or not. Heck, they get in people's swimming pools. Just 2 years ago we were vacationing at disney, my 2 younger kids, wife, and mother in law were enjoying disney, me and my teenage son were (pond hopping) going from pond, to pond fishing for large mouth bass in all the urban ponds around Orlando, which are loaded with large mouth bass, from the lack of fishing. But anyway, my point is every lake, and pond that we fished at had signs posted by the state that read, (approach with caution, there is a 99 percent chance that ALL Florida lake, and ponds, have gators, anyone entering the water will be prosecuted, fish at your own risk). These signs were posted all around EVERY lake that we went to. I constanly reminded my son to stay at least 6 ft away from the water. Out of all the 12 lakes that visited we physically saw at least 1 gator in 9 of the 12 ponds, not counting the ones we did'nt see, We actually saw 5 in one of the lakes. But you can't expect people from out of sate to know these things, as a Florida native would.
25
I'm sorry for the loss of this baby, my heart to the family. When visiting places outside YOUR natural environment, one would think you'd research the environment your visiting to keep your family safe. After all I can assume that the entire country knows that Florida of all places in America is infested with EVERYTHING, it's not a secret. Just my opinion but with knowing that I wouldn't of taken any aged child walking or swimming in a murky pond to begin with.
8
I am also a Florida native from Brevard county and now live in Jacksonville Florida.
We have small retention ponds by our home that even states NO SWIMMING AND WATCH FOR GATORS.
My question is, why would a two year old be walking by the water at 9pm when its completely dark out when the parents are chilling out away from him? Most two years olds cannot swim yet, unless they are taught or grew up in Florida or somewhere where there is bodies of water everywhere.
This very same night my kids and I were at a Disney resort not far from the Grand Floridian.
There were ponds everywhere with small man made beaches, I would never let my kids near them at night or especially walk in the water and they are teenagers.
Plus it was 98 degrees down there this past weekend, why the heck were they outside just chilling on the beach at night.
Something sounds fishy to me.
We have small retention ponds by our home that even states NO SWIMMING AND WATCH FOR GATORS.
My question is, why would a two year old be walking by the water at 9pm when its completely dark out when the parents are chilling out away from him? Most two years olds cannot swim yet, unless they are taught or grew up in Florida or somewhere where there is bodies of water everywhere.
This very same night my kids and I were at a Disney resort not far from the Grand Floridian.
There were ponds everywhere with small man made beaches, I would never let my kids near them at night or especially walk in the water and they are teenagers.
Plus it was 98 degrees down there this past weekend, why the heck were they outside just chilling on the beach at night.
Something sounds fishy to me.
13
Comfortlining - nothing fishy in this; there's no coverup or conspiracy. There was an outdoor movie night in the pool and "beach" area, which is why so many were out at that hour. This toddler stepped on just a little bit, with his parents close by. In fact, the dad was close enough that he immediately started fighting the alligator to try and force it to release his child. By all accounts this little boy wasn't just wandering off and being ignored by his parents as they hung out relatively far away.
There's nothing fishy here. Just a lot of grief over the loss. There but for the grace of God...
There's nothing fishy here. Just a lot of grief over the loss. There but for the grace of God...
33
RIP poor child! I can't imagine how this incident can be compared with the gorilla one - regardless of the race! For one, this unsuspecting family was visiting a "family friendly" kids wonderland, not a zoo. They weren't expecting wild animals roaming around as they relaxed and slept in their resorts. Disney entirely let this common sense go out the door that "No swimming" sign just doesn't make the danger that visible! They should have mentioned something like "No swimming: possible alligators" in RED BOLD. Which sane parent would have ignored such a sign? Disney resorts are visited by thousands around the world - who would have known Florida has such a big gator problem? I wouldn't have guessed it just from a "No swimming" sign!
And most importantly, alligators can stay out of water just as much inside. How can they even advertise a "family friendly" beach in the midst of these natural human predators?
And most importantly, alligators can stay out of water just as much inside. How can they even advertise a "family friendly" beach in the midst of these natural human predators?
17
This is even more proof (as though we needed it!) that there is no god.
I think that we can all agree that if there is a god, he / she / it is one PoS.
I think that we can all agree that if there is a god, he / she / it is one PoS.
10
Wrong...the very air you breathe and body you live in belongs to GOD and when you die you will meet Him.
7
What has happened to parental supervision and common sense? This is a terrible incident but shows terrible judgement for a 2 year old to be on a pitch black beach at 9 PM wading. What if he had tripped on a rock and gone under? Also strange the gator did not eat him . Unusual behavior.
12
Typically alligators do not always eat their "prey" right away. Especially when the prey is a bit larger in relation to the alligator. I won't go into more detail because it's unpleasant, but you can look it up and see that it isn't unusual. Also, at 9 pm it's not pitch black here in Florida during the summer, sunset is 8:30pm and it is still fairly light at 9pm. Disney creates an illusion of safety on their property and it is one of their fanciest hotels. People pay A LOT to stay in this hotel, of course they would feel Disney had done everything to ensure their family's safety.
10
I strongly AGREE Alex
3
Hey, it stays light til that time now
10
This was a beach area: a white sandy beach, with lounge chairs, swings, etc. placed just feet from the water's edge. Disney designed this spot to be inviting, and that layout conveys an impression of safety, especially when coupled with the overall controlled atmosphere of Disney resorts generally. Meanwhile, the lagoon is infested with deadly alligators.
Alligators pose a danger even to those several yards away from the water line, especially to small children. The reality is that unless Disney could be certain that there were no alligators in that lagoon, the entire beach was plainly unsafe, and Disney had no business whatsoever inviting people to so much as stand or sit close to the water's edge.
Finally, "wading," and splashing in the water, are not the same as "swimming." The child was splashing around at the water's edge. Instead of "No Swimming" signs, the signs should have said DANGER: ALLIGATORS, and the entire area should have been roped or fenced off.
The parents were not negligent here. Disney was.
Alligators pose a danger even to those several yards away from the water line, especially to small children. The reality is that unless Disney could be certain that there were no alligators in that lagoon, the entire beach was plainly unsafe, and Disney had no business whatsoever inviting people to so much as stand or sit close to the water's edge.
Finally, "wading," and splashing in the water, are not the same as "swimming." The child was splashing around at the water's edge. Instead of "No Swimming" signs, the signs should have said DANGER: ALLIGATORS, and the entire area should have been roped or fenced off.
The parents were not negligent here. Disney was.
33
This is Florida! Soooooo if your at a public beach and get attached by a shark who's responsible then? The shark because your swimming in his house?
8
But a public beach on the ocean is vastly different from a manmade "beach"on a part manmade, part natural lagoon and waterway within an enclosed resort. There's no comparison between the two, particularly to an unfamiliar tourist.
17
Sooooo, last time I was at a public Florida beach there was a purple flag flying which signifies the possibility of dangerous marine life being present. Which, because it's the OCEAN, I'm well aware, but isn't it nice to let other people who aren't familiar with the area know? How difficult really to put up a notice of the possibility? And I agree with Erin, there is really no comparing the ocean to a man made beach at a luxury resort.
9
I just talked to a good friend whose daughter works for Disney World. He has been to that resort as well as others. He said these lagoons are free standing water that is murky, has chemicals in it and isn't very appealing at all. Another reason this child should not have been wading - swimming in there.
15
Reading everyone's comments and opinions makes me think of the "warning: beverage is hot," statement we see on coffee cups now. When will the signage stop and common sense take over? Such a terrible accident and tragedy.
12
There's no difference between the ability of hot beverages to burn you in Nebraska and in Florida. Can you really not see a distinction here?
13
You might want to do a few minutes of research into the poor woman whose accident and lawsuit led to your disposable coffee cup having a warning label. It's not nearly so simple as "common sense."
12
Amen!
Sad to see readers blaming the parents who are probably going to be scarred for life after seeing their child get taken. How about a little empathy? I have a young son myself and cant even imagine what the parents are going through right now.
46
This is what breaks my heart as well. The last thing this family needs is to be blamed. I imagine they are blaming themselves enough without having all the additional judgy people accusing them of being bad parents. Bad because they took their children to Disney World, because we all know a two year couldn't possibly enjoy something like that. Bad, because they had their children out at 9:00pm, even though that is only then that it is dark enough to view a fireworks display. Bad, because they allowed their child to splash in the water on a man made beach at one of the nicest hotels in the entire Disney lineup. Just because they were unaware does not mean they are bad. Shame on those who are always so very quick to blame a victim.
22
There is no reason to have a fake "beach" at properties like this. It is not the beach. A beach invites people to go in the water. A 'no swimming' sign to most people does not mean 'no wading'. I stayed at this resort 20 years ago with my kids, we had a fine time. Being from NJ the beach did not look so inviting to us. But, landscaping is a lure, they need to take the beach out and install something more appropriate. Like a fence and bushes.
35
Cynical profit motive and greed on the part of Disney and its resorts. They want to attract families with their pretty sand beaches and know they'll be scared away by signs clearly stating "Do not enter water - alligator risk".
That's what it comes down to - profits, marketing and greed.
Shame on Disney.
There are no words to describe the grief I feel for this family.
That's what it comes down to - profits, marketing and greed.
Shame on Disney.
There are no words to describe the grief I feel for this family.
28
How were the parents "careless"? The kid was not "swimming", he was wading.
They were watching him. They were attentive.
What they did not know, and could not guess, that there were alligators in the artificial lake. Floridians probably assume this. Nebraskans not so much. Much like me, they probably figured alligators are a danger in the Everglades or some such swamp, but in a man made lake? In the heart of a very pricey resort?
You'd think Disney would post signs about the alligators, but there were none.
They were watching him. They were attentive.
What they did not know, and could not guess, that there were alligators in the artificial lake. Floridians probably assume this. Nebraskans not so much. Much like me, they probably figured alligators are a danger in the Everglades or some such swamp, but in a man made lake? In the heart of a very pricey resort?
You'd think Disney would post signs about the alligators, but there were none.
49
The alligator (prehistoric creatures that somehow have been able to survive) is not at fault, (splashing even on shore signals to their primative minds - food go for the kill) maybe a tad the father (unaware of the dangers) but certainly Disney.
NO such place should have these highly dangerous (but almost endangered) predators near any such place.
As usual the animal pays the price for human ignorance. Parents what were you thinking. Ok not aware of such dangers (my father when a child would monitor our play with our dog, not less an alligator) but Disney - have fish or any other safe species and then this would never have occurred. I know you own much of America (including ABC media outlets) so you have the big bucks to do better.
NO such place should have these highly dangerous (but almost endangered) predators near any such place.
As usual the animal pays the price for human ignorance. Parents what were you thinking. Ok not aware of such dangers (my father when a child would monitor our play with our dog, not less an alligator) but Disney - have fish or any other safe species and then this would never have occurred. I know you own much of America (including ABC media outlets) so you have the big bucks to do better.
10
American alligators are protected but not endangered.
10
Keeping alligators away from any body of fresh water in this state is virtually impossible. They'll even hang out in swimming pools, or creeks on golf courses, or small neighborhood ponds. Given that Disney is built smack dab in the middle of alligators' natural habitat, it should surprise no one who has even a basic understanding of the creature that an alligator can find his or her way just about anywhere.
Disney isn't stocking their waters - which in this case are part of a system that's partly man made and partly
natural - with gators. Gators are just extremely capable of getting in just about anywhere. Unless WDW is going to be enclosed in a hermetically sealed dome, there WILL be a slight risk of this sort of things happening.
Disney isn't stocking their waters - which in this case are part of a system that's partly man made and partly
natural - with gators. Gators are just extremely capable of getting in just about anywhere. Unless WDW is going to be enclosed in a hermetically sealed dome, there WILL be a slight risk of this sort of things happening.
10
"No swimming" to me means the water could be toxic, have serious e. coli, deadly animals, steep and sudden drop off. How in the world can "No swimming" be taken as harmless to let my 2-y.o. splash around in (at 9pm)?
Further, why is a 2-y.o. splashing in the water by himself? I'm sorry, this falls on the parents. It's a shame their negligence will be rewarded with a quiet, multi-million dollar settlement from deep pocket Disney.
Further, why is a 2-y.o. splashing in the water by himself? I'm sorry, this falls on the parents. It's a shame their negligence will be rewarded with a quiet, multi-million dollar settlement from deep pocket Disney.
21
Your completely off base. Obviously you don't have kids.
12
I'm sure the parents would rather have their child back. I doubt any settlement will be a "reward" to them and somehow I don't think they needed the money.
The water in Florida man made lakes is pretty gross and full of many things. However, when you are on Disney property everything is so manicured and beautified you might just assume the sign is up because there is no lifeguard present. Most people wouldn't expect a hotel like The Grand Floridian is situated on a cesspool. And it's not, but though man made these Florida "lakes" are not sterile environments. In the Disney complex you tend to forget about things like crime and dangerous creatures.
The water in Florida man made lakes is pretty gross and full of many things. However, when you are on Disney property everything is so manicured and beautified you might just assume the sign is up because there is no lifeguard present. Most people wouldn't expect a hotel like The Grand Floridian is situated on a cesspool. And it's not, but though man made these Florida "lakes" are not sterile environments. In the Disney complex you tend to forget about things like crime and dangerous creatures.
19
It isn't fair to blame the parents at all.
The "No Swimming" signage was completely inadequate, even if it is legally sufficient in Florida.
It is completely unreasonable to expect someone from Nebraska to be familiar with alligator behavior, or what to do once the attack began.
Having said that, everyone else can improve safety by taking the time to learn a few basics about alligators like where they live, how to spot them, how to keep a safe distance, how they attack, and how you can stop an attack that is happening.
The "No Swimming" signage was completely inadequate, even if it is legally sufficient in Florida.
It is completely unreasonable to expect someone from Nebraska to be familiar with alligator behavior, or what to do once the attack began.
Having said that, everyone else can improve safety by taking the time to learn a few basics about alligators like where they live, how to spot them, how to keep a safe distance, how they attack, and how you can stop an attack that is happening.
15
You're in CHICAGO Scott, what animals do you all have that may be remotely dangerous? Ummm fair to say NOT NONE
Sure you meant to say "not none?" If so, can we expect you to be listing the dangerous animals to be found in Chicago? After all, if it's NOT NONE, then it must be at least one.
(And Chicago does have coyotes. Maybe not much risk to humans, but plenty of little dogs have perished after an encounter.)
(And Chicago does have coyotes. Maybe not much risk to humans, but plenty of little dogs have perished after an encounter.)
4
It never ceases to amaze me how people neglect to observe the facts. Either that or they have a gripe against Disney.
Yes Disney could have posted signs warning about the alligators that dwell within the waters. But in the end it will not change anything in preventing tragedies like this to occur.
Children will still go into the water and ignore any warnings and dangers that are present. Everyone has to realize that a child does not have the common sense that an adult has and are too gullible in the presence of danger. Leaving the child alone will result in a scenario that will not end well!
Yes Disney could have posted signs warning about the alligators that dwell within the waters. But in the end it will not change anything in preventing tragedies like this to occur.
Children will still go into the water and ignore any warnings and dangers that are present. Everyone has to realize that a child does not have the common sense that an adult has and are too gullible in the presence of danger. Leaving the child alone will result in a scenario that will not end well!
11
The child was not left alone. His parents were right there.
7
This is a heart breaking, almost too surreal tragedy, and pointing fingers at whose to blame only makes it worse. Rounding up and killing alligators in their natural habitat is no better. This loss of life can't be restored via law suits, and in the end nothing will help ease the pain of those parents who will always feel a sense of guilt for allowing their child to play in waters they obviously didn't feel were too dangerous to splash around in. The focus now needs to be on healing, especially when the loss of a child has led to the demise of many once healthy martial relationships. Better public education will certainly result from this tragedy, the news of the suffering this child experienced should suffice to warn those who did not that alligators present an ever present risk of danger near bodies of water in Florida.
6
When a tragedy like this occurs, we naturally seek to assign fault. We dislike the that terrible things can happen even in the absence of fault because it makes us seem vulnerable. But mightn't this be a case where neither the parents nor Disney was at fault? Perhaps alligator attacks in man-made bodies of water in enclosed resorts are so improbable that it is not worth taking measures preventing children from going swimming. Mightn't this be like a shark attack at Coney Island Beach? In retrospect events always appear more likely to occur than actual are.
10
How improbable is it really when eight other alligators were found in that water?
6
Improbable enough that this was the first fatality of its kind in Disney's existence?
2
Even if we take the option of posting 'No Swimming Alligators Present' signs off the table, which are either redundant or ineffective at keeping tourists out of the water according to the majority of Florida-based amphibian experts posting here, it's still Disney's fault. They should not have built a delicate white sand beach tapering into a gently rippling lagoon, they should have built a concrete curb with a couple foot drop into the water. A natural-looking threshold with an elevation change would be very effective at keeping humans and alligators separate. And if the landscaping wasn't a big enough issue on it's own, then they hold outdoor screenings from their children's film library on the beach? Staff to patrol the water's edge? A professional crocodile hunter type to patrol the lagoon from a boat? The list of preventative measures Disney could have taken to safeguard against this tragedy is endless.
29
I am a native (temporarily relocated to California for my Postdoctoral research) Nebraskan. People are aware that Florida has alligators. The point is simply that there weren't appropriate signs posted that signified the appropriate level of danger and as a result the appropriate level of mental awareness. This child nor does anyone actually have to been in the water for an alligator to attack. Simply being near the water can be dangerous. Also, I wouldn't expect a resort that is the size and magnitude of Disney to not alert me to such dangers, let alone, encourage my family and I to spend time on the beaches!
I expect that any resort, or type of public area where people come from all over the world to spend time at, are responsible for posting the appropriate sign regarding the local dangers. For example, in many of the National Parks found in California, there are signs about bears, the danger of bears, how to store your food, etc.. If a bear were to attack a person in these areas, no one can claim not to have been warned about the dangers, regardless of where you are from or aren't from.
I expect that any resort, or type of public area where people come from all over the world to spend time at, are responsible for posting the appropriate sign regarding the local dangers. For example, in many of the National Parks found in California, there are signs about bears, the danger of bears, how to store your food, etc.. If a bear were to attack a person in these areas, no one can claim not to have been warned about the dangers, regardless of where you are from or aren't from.
25
Racheal, first of all let me say that you are correct in every aspect, how ever Disney was relying on the fact that an attact has never occurred, not saying that, that is a valid excuse, but the disney mind set is, if it has never happened by now, it most likely won't. I know of a recently buit walmart, that's only 2 years old. When they built it, they dug a runoff pond about 50 yards behind it. Well that pond has only been there for 2 years, and I have personally saw 3 gators in that pond already. Disney's lagoon has been that 10 times that long, and connects to the natural water ways. Trust me, it has 100's of gators out there, and Disney, and all the staff, and employees know that they are out there. I'm from Fl, and I know this for certain, YOU NEVER get in Fl lakes at night, YOU NEVER take dog near the edge of water that where gators are present, you are asking for trouble.
7
As a tourist at Disney, I would no more expect a real gator to pop out of the man-made lagoon than I would on the Jungle Cruise ride. This poor family. And for those defending Disney because of the signs, note that the boy was not swimming. He was splashing around by the water's edge as the family sat nearby. It's a beautiful, manicured beach a short stroll from the pool and guest rooms. Disney failed to protect their guests and make them aware of the risks. RIP Lane.
45
Disney should have done more. to protect people other than simply posting no swimming signs? Really? if he had obeyed, he wouldn't be dead. terrible tragedy bit cmon people. personal responsibility could have prevented this.
7
Yeah. Darn that lack of "personal responsibility" and obedience on the part of a now-deceased two-year-old child.
Seriously??
Seriously??
9
It is ridiculous to say that no swimming means no wading. How do those people respond to the fact this could have happened even to a child on the shore. Most of us in the northeast think no swimming means danger from drowning or boats whereas no wading includes other dangers. No one should cruelly say child was unattended; Dad was a few feet away. I have let my children walk along water's edge at Disney. I did not know of alligators or I never would have allowed it. In contrast, we recently stayed at a hotel in Kiawah which had three small alligators in a pond. They had signs and a fence and I still would not let my children outside, let alone near the pond. Signage matters.
31
Ineffably sad. Why even have an artificial lagoon that is a habitat for alligators anywhere that children gather? The whole Disney World enterprise seems so monitored and controlled that one would think at the very least there would be signage warning guests not to swim, wade or walk around the lagoon. Why ware there beach lounge chairs in the area. The lagoon is not the Caribbean Sea, but a cesspool filled with alligators.
33
It's interesting the different reaction to this than to the earlier gorilla attack on a small child. It seemed the gorilla was more valuable to some than the poor child's safety and his child's African-American mother was threatened with jail after the incident. This poor child was white and the scenario included killing 4 or 5 alligators with more killings to come and there is no talk of charging the mother: a terrible commentary on prejudice.
31
Not voicing an opinion here, I'm certainly not qualified to judge, but the gorilla was in captivity, in a clear enclosure, and the alligator was on a beach in a family resort. I think that's the difference people are seeing here.
Poor children, though. My mother always had a firm grasp on my hand when we went out to places, but it was easy for her because we have two parents and two children.
Poor children, though. My mother always had a firm grasp on my hand when we went out to places, but it was easy for her because we have two parents and two children.
15
There was plenty of talk of charging the parents and the law enforcement authorities announced that they were looking in to it. They announced today that they found insufficient grounds to file a negligence charge.
9
I have to agree, I made the same comment to my wife. NOONE ever mentioned of the parents being charged about the gator attack, it is very a very similar incident. It really displays the values, and priorties, or lack of, that certains races places on another race, it really obvious.
3
NYT leaves stuff out like
* lifeguard was on duty at the swimming pool a distance from the lagoon
* there were NO SWIMMING signs all over the edges of the lagoon
These are important points. The parents deliberately ignored the No Swimming signs and let the child go into the water.
According to the FL Courts' prior cases, it is the parents who are responsible - not the resort. They ignored the "No Swimming" signs and let the kid go in.
Under FL case law, "No Swimming" signs mean it is your own fault if you ignore it and go in the water and get attacked by an alligator.
Don't have to have signs saying "Beware of alligators" - a "No Swimming" sign is sufficient notice to stay out of the water because of gators.
487 So.2d 352 (1986) Christopher A. PALUMBO, v. The STATE of Florida GAME AND FRESH WATER FISH COMMISSION and the Florida Board of Regents
Palumbo ignored the No Swimming signs at a park and went into the water and was attacked by an alligator. Court ruled it was his own bloody fault - he broke the rule.
Thinking rules "don't mean me" can get you dead - Yellowstone and tourist a few days ago
Pretty difficult for anyone even marginally aware of the known universe to not know there are alligators in FL.
I have always lived in the north but when recently in Orlando for an event, I gave all the pretty ponds and water features in the landscaping a very wide berth ---- duh, alligators are likely to be any body of freshwater -natural or man-made.
* lifeguard was on duty at the swimming pool a distance from the lagoon
* there were NO SWIMMING signs all over the edges of the lagoon
These are important points. The parents deliberately ignored the No Swimming signs and let the child go into the water.
According to the FL Courts' prior cases, it is the parents who are responsible - not the resort. They ignored the "No Swimming" signs and let the kid go in.
Under FL case law, "No Swimming" signs mean it is your own fault if you ignore it and go in the water and get attacked by an alligator.
Don't have to have signs saying "Beware of alligators" - a "No Swimming" sign is sufficient notice to stay out of the water because of gators.
487 So.2d 352 (1986) Christopher A. PALUMBO, v. The STATE of Florida GAME AND FRESH WATER FISH COMMISSION and the Florida Board of Regents
Palumbo ignored the No Swimming signs at a park and went into the water and was attacked by an alligator. Court ruled it was his own bloody fault - he broke the rule.
Thinking rules "don't mean me" can get you dead - Yellowstone and tourist a few days ago
Pretty difficult for anyone even marginally aware of the known universe to not know there are alligators in FL.
I have always lived in the north but when recently in Orlando for an event, I gave all the pretty ponds and water features in the landscaping a very wide berth ---- duh, alligators are likely to be any body of freshwater -natural or man-made.
21
The "No Swimming" signs were shown on TV evening news today. They're highly visible black and red letters on a white background. The parents are negligent for letting the toddler out of their sight.
10
"No swimming" can be more many more innocuous reasons and many people associate "No swimming" with these more innocuous reasons. The child wasn't "swimming." The resort is responsible for making the immediate dangers, such as alligators, apparent to their guest. They should have the appropriate-expilicit signs posted regarding exactly what dangers are surrounding them.
17
The kid was two years old. He wasn't swimming. A NO SWIMMING OR WADING sign -- or one that just says KEEP OUT OF THE WATER would make a lot more sense.
29
These people were from Nebraska, they wouldn't have a clue what to expect in Florida. I would expect that were I in attendance at Disney World, that dangerous, animals are prevented from being anywhere on the property. I would agree with the idea that attendees at Disney World have a reasonable expectation that their child wouldn't be dragged off by an alligator. At the very least, for the uninitiated regarding Floridian wildlife, they should have put up big warning signs. Major lawsuit coming Disney's way.
27
Really, my father took care when we played with the family dog, 1953 onward. NO warning signs this ancient predator does what it does (and dies doing so when killed after such attacks) but zoologists onward which I am sure Disney contacted know how very dangerous they are even coming ashore (esp with splashing many yards to have what they consider food simple as that) meaning Disney cared for profits over safety.
Many other safe species for the viewing public - Disney worth kabillions if concerned about preservation can set up sanctuaries, without such concerns for child or even adult safety.
Don't blame the alligator, maybe the parents for not informing themselves, but certainly Disney for allowing such a dangerous display in the first place.
Many other safe species for the viewing public - Disney worth kabillions if concerned about preservation can set up sanctuaries, without such concerns for child or even adult safety.
Don't blame the alligator, maybe the parents for not informing themselves, but certainly Disney for allowing such a dangerous display in the first place.
9
Yes, and one incident in about 1 billion guests constitutes reasonable expectation, esp
when warning signs are disobeyed.
when warning signs are disobeyed.
7
1) Disney was well within Florida law to post No Swimming signs (see AnnS above).
2) There will be no lawsuit. Disney will settled generously out of court.
2) There will be no lawsuit. Disney will settled generously out of court.
6
I've only been to Florida a few times, but (and maybe because I spent some time away from the theme parks) we saw enough alligators - even in ditches by the road - to make it clear to us Northerners that they're widespread down there. Such a shame that the parents didn't know. I agree with those that decry the artificial lake & inviting beach built by Disney. I imagine the only good that will come from this is that both tourists and Disney have learned a very tough lesson.
21
Any good and loving parent would let their two-year-old splash in the shallows. Why not, it's fun and who doesn't want to see their child smiling? In that setting, few would expect what happened, and given the long history of no incidents, to regard the activity as safe was a reasonable assumption. I have nothing but sympathy for the family. As for WDW, I can't really blame them either. It's a lose-lose for WDW because trust me, if they posted signs that warned of alligators, curious northerners would probably swarm to the water's edge just to catch a glimpse of a creature that they have only seen in pictures or, at best, a zoo. Sometimes, accidents happen and even if they're avoidable, nobody is to blame, and little or nothing is learned in the process except, I'm afraid, that life is fragile.
26
why not? because it was prohibited. for obvious reasons. rules exist for a reason. it's the parents' fault. 100%
1
Amen, I second your thoughts.
It must be some comfort to the parents that the divers were able to find the body, and the autopsy shows drowning as the cause of death, and they can bury an intact body...
(Can we all offer up a prayer, you praying folks, for Sheriff Jerry Demings too, as well as this family. What a hell of a week he is having... looks like a strong man, may he find rest in a bigger power himself.)
It must be some comfort to the parents that the divers were able to find the body, and the autopsy shows drowning as the cause of death, and they can bury an intact body...
(Can we all offer up a prayer, you praying folks, for Sheriff Jerry Demings too, as well as this family. What a hell of a week he is having... looks like a strong man, may he find rest in a bigger power himself.)
3
I agree with most everything you said, but you left out 2 key words, (In Florida). Or in the southern States. You don't let your child do none of those things that you mentioned, in Florida water, especially at night.
5
Why is there a Disney family resort with a gator-magnet wading/swimming pond? You'd think the Disney park-builders would know something about Florida by now.
35
It's not a swimming or wading pool. It's a manmade body of water that connects to other waterways both manmade and natural. There are No Swimming signs posted - but I agree that Disney should've posted something more specific and clear, such as DO NOT ENTER WATER, with a picture of alligators underneath. Something much clearer than No Swimming - just a look through the comments here shows that while some consider that to mean "don't even put a toe in this," and others take it to mean, "don't swim, but walking along the edge isn't actually swimming so that's okay."
4
Yes, Disney put up "No Swimming" signs around the lagoon, but they also:
1) located family friendly resorts around the lake and lagoon
2) constructed and maintained white sand beaches extending right down to the water
3) put recliners and swings on the beaches that encourage lounging and relaxing close to the water (see photo accompanying the article)
4) presented children's movies after dark in close proximity to the lagoon/lake
At best that sends a very mixed message and facilitates misunderstanding.
Some commenters may not like the fact that not all people interpret "No Swimming" to mean don't even think of dipping your toes in the water or walking near the water because you may be attacked or eaten. But given that fact, clearer warnings (including photos/pictures communicating the dangers for those park/resort visitors who can't read English well) should have been posted as well as included on handouts to people as they're checking in.
Clear warnings about the possibility of dangerous creatures in the water, specifically alligators, would be bad for business? Are you kidding? People will still flock to DW, but they shouldn't be encouraged to unwittingly engage in risky behavior by constructing resorts with amenities and scheduled attractions (e.g. movies) that invite lounging and relaxing with children close to water where dangerous, agile, man-eating predators can easily lurk unseen.
1) located family friendly resorts around the lake and lagoon
2) constructed and maintained white sand beaches extending right down to the water
3) put recliners and swings on the beaches that encourage lounging and relaxing close to the water (see photo accompanying the article)
4) presented children's movies after dark in close proximity to the lagoon/lake
At best that sends a very mixed message and facilitates misunderstanding.
Some commenters may not like the fact that not all people interpret "No Swimming" to mean don't even think of dipping your toes in the water or walking near the water because you may be attacked or eaten. But given that fact, clearer warnings (including photos/pictures communicating the dangers for those park/resort visitors who can't read English well) should have been posted as well as included on handouts to people as they're checking in.
Clear warnings about the possibility of dangerous creatures in the water, specifically alligators, would be bad for business? Are you kidding? People will still flock to DW, but they shouldn't be encouraged to unwittingly engage in risky behavior by constructing resorts with amenities and scheduled attractions (e.g. movies) that invite lounging and relaxing with children close to water where dangerous, agile, man-eating predators can easily lurk unseen.
40
Disney's signs met the requirements of Florida law (see AnnS above). But Disney is well known for exceeding requirements and will now put up more explicit signs, probably containing a picture of an alligator (for non-English speakers). It is Florida's legislature that needs to change sign requirements.
4
I have never been in alligator territory but know full well esp with "splashing" they can travel far out of water to catch their prey (background in pre zoology) but then again have these parents never watched Nat Geo or previous such shows.
That said the real responsibility is with Disney - certainly NOT family friendly to have prehistoric animals with modern families. Once in a natural habit, there was a viewing area high above the gator exhibition - with a mote about 13 feet, fencing so on and HUGE warning signs.
These are extremely dangerous animals, moving on instinct with jaws of steel (once shut) and "prey" die from drowning for the most part. Then they consume them if able. Not their "fault" maybe the parents for not informing themselves, but certainly Disney. Parents should not sue, where were you!?
That said the real responsibility is with Disney - certainly NOT family friendly to have prehistoric animals with modern families. Once in a natural habit, there was a viewing area high above the gator exhibition - with a mote about 13 feet, fencing so on and HUGE warning signs.
These are extremely dangerous animals, moving on instinct with jaws of steel (once shut) and "prey" die from drowning for the most part. Then they consume them if able. Not their "fault" maybe the parents for not informing themselves, but certainly Disney. Parents should not sue, where were you!?
4
I feel like a way to communicate the danger without losing publicity (too late now) would be to have had signs with "No Swimming", but with, say, Mickey Mouse standing on the beach and an alligator underwater with one of those cartoony eating bibs, and perhaps a knife and fork. Kid-friendly warning, true to the theme of Disney, although perhaps a bit disturbing.
I don't think they could do that now, though. Disrespectful to the family.
I don't think they could do that now, though. Disrespectful to the family.
1
This whole thing is very, very sad but if you're in Florida and don't know there are hundreds of thousands of alligators (and other dangerous species) on land and in the water, you're an idiot. If you don't know this before traveling to Florida, you're an idiot. I'm sorry but being at Disney World does not excuse you from the dangers that exist in the real one.
12
Hardly are people idiots. If the child had been attacked on land, as can happen, no one would be faulting the family. Disney is not excused from making their guests aware of the dangers on their property! A "no swimming, please" sign doesn't signify the appropriate level of danger.
15
The resort is responsible for making their guest's aware of the dangers on their property.
20
For walking tiny tots extreme parental VIGIL - one in gorilla cage another in alligator alley. Too many Too many tragedies too often.
7
I have no interest in blaming anyone! All I can think about is the sheer, raw terror this poor child must have felt as he was dragged under the water and held there.
33
I find comfort in knowing the child likely went very quickly, and perhaps you are overestimating his sense of fear or terror. They black out very quickly when they can't get air, inhale water and drown.
2
This is very sad.
The laws of Florida presumably have addressed this question before in some way. If they do not compensate the family, so be it. There's logic either way. If you go to a baseball game and get hit by a bat or baseball, you generally have no recourse against the team. If you go to Africa or India or Alaska and are attacked by lion, tiger, or a bear, you have no recourse. It's up to travelers to know whether there are piranha in the river.
If Florida requires greater warning because Disney invites to Florida people who know nothing about alligators, that's fine, too.
For a non-Floridian, it seems a warning--such as a picture of an alligator on a sign near the water--might have been in order--but then it is the Floridians who should decide what is fair in Florida.
If one went to Churchill, Manitoba and was attacked by a polar bear, one could understand the locals saying it's not their fault for failing to have warned you that there are polar bears lurking about.
Still, this is very sad.
The laws of Florida presumably have addressed this question before in some way. If they do not compensate the family, so be it. There's logic either way. If you go to a baseball game and get hit by a bat or baseball, you generally have no recourse against the team. If you go to Africa or India or Alaska and are attacked by lion, tiger, or a bear, you have no recourse. It's up to travelers to know whether there are piranha in the river.
If Florida requires greater warning because Disney invites to Florida people who know nothing about alligators, that's fine, too.
For a non-Floridian, it seems a warning--such as a picture of an alligator on a sign near the water--might have been in order--but then it is the Floridians who should decide what is fair in Florida.
If one went to Churchill, Manitoba and was attacked by a polar bear, one could understand the locals saying it's not their fault for failing to have warned you that there are polar bears lurking about.
Still, this is very sad.
9
Some have commented that since the family was from Nebraska they were unfamiliar with alligators. If that's the case, then fault lies with the education system for not teaching about alligator habitats in biology classes. I still say the parents are at fault, leaving their child unattended will he splashed around in the water. According to the article a sign was posted prohibiting swimming in the lagoon. I guess splashing is not swimming, but nevertheless, they should have known better. I see a lot a similarities here and the child jumping into the gorilla exhibit at the Cincinnati zoo. Similarities in poor and neglectful parenting. Oh, well, such is life.
12
From what I've read, the mother was with the child when the child was wading ankle-deep in the water; so the child was not "unattended". I do see a lawsuit going forward, mainly on the grounds that people from Nebraska might not have realized how widespread the alligator habitat was; and would not necessarily know that there were alligators in that specific man-made lagoon. Also, does a sign specifying "no swimming" mean "no wading"? The tragedy of course as that this toddler died horribly and those parents will never forget the last sight of him in an alligator's terrible jaws.
10
But they did not know. That is the point. Floridians all know about alligators, but people traveling from the north to a family oriented Disney vacation resort never imagine that wonderful Disney would put a family resort near a lagoon filled with alligators.
12
I really feel this tragedy is on Disney.They knew way back when they built Disney World,Epcot Center and surrounding resorts that alligators live in the surrounding waters and measures should have been taken to not subject humans to them,because alligators are unpredictable creatures,can strike at any time,and besides,this part of Florida is their natural habitat.Humans are invading their area.What do you expect? The family of this little boy needs to somehow whether a lawsuit,or whatever it takes needs to send a strong message to Disney,that more needs to be done to separate wildlife from humans than just signs that say "No Swimming."
17
Always a lawsuit (which Disney will not pay for but their clients - look up what Disney owns ABC so on). The parents are equally responsible. Alligators not dangerous? Really!!! Now today it seems someone else is responsible for adult parenting. I am older but as a child we were supervised to play with our DOG! Dad knew the dangerous of naive children and dogs. And this is an alligator!
3
I'm sorry about the loss of this child.
However, as a former Florida resident, people, do not get into the water at night. Period.
PS I fail to see, since the child is intact, what is to be gained from killing a bunch of alligators. Five so far are dead. Unless there is a missing body part how are the police going to know which alligator is the guilty party?
However, as a former Florida resident, people, do not get into the water at night. Period.
PS I fail to see, since the child is intact, what is to be gained from killing a bunch of alligators. Five so far are dead. Unless there is a missing body part how are the police going to know which alligator is the guilty party?
28
It was negligent on Disney's part not to warn about the potential threat of alligators to their guest. Alligators can attack at anytime of the day. This child could have been on land and been attacked. Signs need to be posted for people who aren't familiar with local dangers.
17
And so parents would still ignore. Where is the parental responsibility? Read up on alligators and how they can come far ashore (esp with splashing) to grab prey - natural for them and as usual they pay for HUMAN ignorance. I mean to say Modern human ignorance. There is actually NO safe distance and should never have been allowed at "family" area or any area. Safe places have motes, viewing from high above knowing this vital information.
Parents learned a hard lesson, child only suffered as he's dead at both parent and Disney negligence.
Parents learned a hard lesson, child only suffered as he's dead at both parent and Disney negligence.
2
I had to make another remark here. Does anybody honestly believe that Disney didn't consider putting up an alligator warning? Really believe with all the money made and money spent that someone somewhere in an office didn't at one time consider an alligator sign" This is a multi-billion dollar business and everything move is very well thought out. I'm thinking the "Beware of Alligators" sign would have scared off a lot of folks from venturing near the water and been detrimental to their bottom line and no one was creative enough to think of any alternative other than "No Swimming". From what I understand there were other people around the lagoon and no one thought they were in any danger. Stop blaming the family. Families are thinking about Mickey Mouse when they are in Disney World not alligators other than the cartoon alligator from Peter Pan. I'm still baffled as to why no one says plainly "alligators beware".
34
I honestly believe Disney didn't consider it.
I think that if anyone at Disney had the first inkling that a child who was a visitor to Walt Disney World could have been taken by an alligator, they would have set about making this impossible, by creating a safe zone around that water that no people would be allowed to venture into. I don't think this was a cost/benefit decision at all. I think it was a failure of imagination. To the extent that they thought "what could happen" no one ever thought this.
I fault Disney to a large extent, because relying on "no swimming" signs is just ridiculous. However, there is no way on God's green earth that anyone at Disney ever contemplated the death of a toddler and thought, no, we don't want to make the signage more specific, it's not worth it.
I think that if anyone at Disney had the first inkling that a child who was a visitor to Walt Disney World could have been taken by an alligator, they would have set about making this impossible, by creating a safe zone around that water that no people would be allowed to venture into. I don't think this was a cost/benefit decision at all. I think it was a failure of imagination. To the extent that they thought "what could happen" no one ever thought this.
I fault Disney to a large extent, because relying on "no swimming" signs is just ridiculous. However, there is no way on God's green earth that anyone at Disney ever contemplated the death of a toddler and thought, no, we don't want to make the signage more specific, it's not worth it.
8
You make good points, but there are alligators. The existence of alligators in the park is a reality Disney has been living with for the last 45 years or so, one reader said that when an alligator was seen in the area staff members notified guests. I've never been so I don't know. I did read online some of the parks literature regarding safety rules and age restrictions etc. Where the "No Swimming" signs in regard to alligators or unsafe water? No idea. But they were aware of the presence of alligators, there is no way around that. Thanks for the response.
5
"Beware" does not mean crud. People don't care, or ignore.
Alligators are prehistoric, ancient beings and can come actually far ashore to eat lunch. Splashing triggers their prehistoric brains to go after food. They do survive out of water for long periods. Read up on Alligator behavior (almost extinct at one point).
Disney is a multi billion dollar company. They could and should have done better - NOT allowing any "lake side" viewing (I am sure they could or did consult zoologists others on this issue if not negligent, if so negligent).
There again is NO safe distance NONE. There has to be viewing from high above, or a mote and even then more safety features. Period.
Alligators are prehistoric, ancient beings and can come actually far ashore to eat lunch. Splashing triggers their prehistoric brains to go after food. They do survive out of water for long periods. Read up on Alligator behavior (almost extinct at one point).
Disney is a multi billion dollar company. They could and should have done better - NOT allowing any "lake side" viewing (I am sure they could or did consult zoologists others on this issue if not negligent, if so negligent).
There again is NO safe distance NONE. There has to be viewing from high above, or a mote and even then more safety features. Period.
6
I am sorry, but you are in the open water. This is the problem of swimming in fresh water in Florida. As are sharks in salt water. Nature will have her way. Is this the fault of Disney? NO! The sign said NO SWIMMING in the place the boy was attacked.
D you put your face in a wasp nest? NO!
Do you tempt a mountain lion when in the mountains? NO!
Do you swim in open water in Florida? NO!
I am sorry this is a god event and simple stupidity. No swimming signs mean no swimming and stay out of the water. Accidental? No, foolish and sad? Yes. My condolences to the family and Disney.
D you put your face in a wasp nest? NO!
Do you tempt a mountain lion when in the mountains? NO!
Do you swim in open water in Florida? NO!
I am sorry this is a god event and simple stupidity. No swimming signs mean no swimming and stay out of the water. Accidental? No, foolish and sad? Yes. My condolences to the family and Disney.
14
It's not open water. It's a man-made pond in an enclosed theme park.
25
"No swimming" means exactly that. If it should have meant to say "Stay out of water", then the sign should have said exactly that. I am from Northwest and I would have had no idea of the gator problem in Florida. Sorry to say you are wrong - people come to Disney resorts from all over the world. Things that are obvious to locals are not even heard of by some of these guests (including me). It was Disney's biggest responsibility to clearly point out the dangers in their family friendly resorts, especially if they didn't have any resolution to those dangers. It was an accident waiting to happen.
10
It's a 172-acre lake connected to larger bodies of water in an alligator-infested region. Not a pond.
7
In my travels to villages in Pacific coast Mexico it is very common to see hand painted signs warning people of croccodiles @ lagoons. Seems like Disney was living a bit too much "in disneyland" and not enough in reality by not having warning signs. It will not prevent all tragodies, but it would raise awareness for tourists not familiar with the local wildlife.
26
A "no swimming" sign was not enough. Visitors come from all over--this family was from Nebraska!! How could they possibly know to expect anything other than a completely controlled resort experience at Disney? Disney trucked in tons of sand and built a pristine white sand beach on the lagoon and put beach chairs on it, which says: hang out here with your kids and do what you do on the beach. Disney needed to spell out "no wading or swimming" and explicitly warn of the wildlife danger. I'm sure Disney executives can look at a map and see their manmade lagoon is connected to a natural lake.
45
Because people from Nebraska cannot read?
6
They did not realize that no swimming also meant no wading or splashing around. The father was watching and never dreamed there were alligators in a lagoon in a family resort.
6
Come on - don't be fresh. The signage was literally interpreted and it read, "No Swimming." The child was not swimming - the child was splashing - running in and out of the water, and having fun. Small children love playing in water - and the same for the little boy who fell into the ape cage at the Zoo. He wanted to go into the water. Don't over think this - keep it simple.
3
This is a tragedy and I hope these parents are able to live their lives and see some semblance of happiness again, particularly for the sake of their little girl - but I don't see how Disney has any culpability here. They posted signs saying "Don't swim in the water." That means "Don't swim in the water." Personally, I would take that to mean "Do not enter the water." Trying to argue over the wordage or interpretation is simply semantics. There was a rule and it was broken at one's own risk. No doubt, hundreds to thousands of visitors have waded in those waters and nothing has happened. It seems completely innate and harmless in any other context. Unfortunately, this time had consequences. This is indeed a rare accident but to be visiting Florida, a place inhabited by hundreds of thousands of alligators, and not be wary of bodies of water, regardless of your location, is negligent. I've seen some folks on here saying that someone shouldn't be expected to know that. Please, I'm not even from Florida and I know that. Part of being a responsible and courteous traveler is to educate yourself about where you're going - that includes knowing of a place's (numerous) deadly wildlife or simply that the danger exists and where it exists. I can see how being at Disney World could lower someone's level of awareness to the dangers of the Real World but the real world is still what it says - very real and very dangerous, regardless of if you're on a vacation.
12
Wait a minute. They were wading in the shallow water of a beach that allows people to sit in lounge chairs where there could be alligators? That doesn't make any sense since alligators are both on land and water. So even if the kid wasn't in the water, the gator could have attacked him on land. Disney needs to do better than that. Guests should not even be on the sand!
50
Am I the only one who does not think its a good idea to take your toddler to the edge of a dark lake at night in a state where Gators inhabit most waterways?
22
No, but you may be the only one that does not understand that the parents did not know that there were alligators in the water.
27
How is it that there seems no talk of holding Disney somewhat accountable? How can it be, in one of their resorts, there are man-killing alligators in the waterways? Warning signs would not be enough. High chain-link fences perhaps. But you can't allow your guests to wade in alligator-infested waters...
Bob Soden
Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Bob Soden
Montreal, Quebec, Canada
19
This is the first incident they've had like this. I really think this was a freak accident and not some huge negligent act on Disney's part. Alligators have killed less than 100 people reported ever in the US (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_alligator_attacks_in_the_Uni... there isn't a way they could have known.
3
In over 1500 comments posted here, there are plenty assigning full or partial blame to Disney. Somehow they will be held accountable - whether in the court of law or of public opinion.
But as to having alligators in a resort waterway: this is Florida. Got fresh water, even just a small amount? Expect alligators. Assume they will come, eventually. Even a full enclosed, manmade body of fresh water will have alligators visiting or moving in. This area of the resort is man-made waterway that joins with similar waterways to arrive in a natural body of water. Short of draining all of it or creating a force field to keep every possible thing trapped inside the water or incapable of getting into the water in the first place, there will be gators. Anyone expecting even Disney to end nature quite so far doesn't grasp just how tenacious Florida's swamps can be.
But as to having alligators in a resort waterway: this is Florida. Got fresh water, even just a small amount? Expect alligators. Assume they will come, eventually. Even a full enclosed, manmade body of fresh water will have alligators visiting or moving in. This area of the resort is man-made waterway that joins with similar waterways to arrive in a natural body of water. Short of draining all of it or creating a force field to keep every possible thing trapped inside the water or incapable of getting into the water in the first place, there will be gators. Anyone expecting even Disney to end nature quite so far doesn't grasp just how tenacious Florida's swamps can be.
14
One could reasonably ask why, knowing how alligators are here, Disney put that manmade lake there.
12
Florida is essentially a large subtropical swamp where Europeans have intruded. Disney World should have stayed put in Anaheim.
21
Crocodiles (don't know about alligators) can lunge up to six feet out of the water to seize it's prey. One doesn't need to be in the water at all. // I suppose if there were lions lying in wait and roaming the beaches Disney would have signs that read, "Don't walk on the sand."
22
True story: When I was 3 years old, my family went to Disneyland as Dad was called down on business. Mom and I went to Busch Gardens. The place at the time (early 70's, showing my age) was full of various concrete animal sculptures. We got ice cream, and near some sort of stream there were two concrete curled-up alligator sculptures, identical. Mom took a picture. We got some ice cream and then started over to go sit on the sculptures. She had her camera out.
Luckily, she held my hand and did NOT send me running ahead to sit on them to take a picture FIRST. As we approached the "concrete alligators," one of them started to MOVE. Both creatures uncurled and started to make it slowly towards the water. Mom, after dropping her ice cream and grabbing me, had the foresight to take a few pictures while retreating, slowly, backwards.
We still have those pictures to this day in my Mom's albums, right there along with the albino peacocks and bright macaws. There were no alligator signs in sight then. Over the years, of course, as relatives moved down to Florida we learned that the place is absolutely crawling with gators and snakes of both the toxic and nontoxic kind. I'm lucky that we just laugh at our gator story.
My heart goes out to the family and I place ZERO blame on them. If Disneyland creates a perfect environment for gators, which can't be avoided any more than pigeons and rats can be up here, then they need to make the public VERY aware of their presence.
Luckily, she held my hand and did NOT send me running ahead to sit on them to take a picture FIRST. As we approached the "concrete alligators," one of them started to MOVE. Both creatures uncurled and started to make it slowly towards the water. Mom, after dropping her ice cream and grabbing me, had the foresight to take a few pictures while retreating, slowly, backwards.
We still have those pictures to this day in my Mom's albums, right there along with the albino peacocks and bright macaws. There were no alligator signs in sight then. Over the years, of course, as relatives moved down to Florida we learned that the place is absolutely crawling with gators and snakes of both the toxic and nontoxic kind. I'm lucky that we just laugh at our gator story.
My heart goes out to the family and I place ZERO blame on them. If Disneyland creates a perfect environment for gators, which can't be avoided any more than pigeons and rats can be up here, then they need to make the public VERY aware of their presence.
53
I know when I see a "No Swimming" I just want to jump right in with my toddler!
To keep me and my family out, the signs at Disney should say: "No Swimming, no wading, no frolicking, no splashing, no rock skipping. Potential: alligators, burmese pythons, zika virus mosquitos, brain-eating amoeba, stingrays, eastern diamond rattlesnake, venomous lionfish, black widow spiders, rip currents, Portuguese man of war, Water moccasins, rabid otters..."
What a desperate, sue-crazy world we live in.
To keep me and my family out, the signs at Disney should say: "No Swimming, no wading, no frolicking, no splashing, no rock skipping. Potential: alligators, burmese pythons, zika virus mosquitos, brain-eating amoeba, stingrays, eastern diamond rattlesnake, venomous lionfish, black widow spiders, rip currents, Portuguese man of war, Water moccasins, rabid otters..."
What a desperate, sue-crazy world we live in.
17
TB
Here's the thing, tourists with no knowledge of FL wildlife likely think the "no swimming" sign is an indication that no lifeguard is posted at that beach. That's what I'd assume because it's a manmade beach with beach chairs alongside a seemingly shallow sided lagoon. In such a case, people view wading was harmless.
The signs should have specified the hazard.
Here's the thing, tourists with no knowledge of FL wildlife likely think the "no swimming" sign is an indication that no lifeguard is posted at that beach. That's what I'd assume because it's a manmade beach with beach chairs alongside a seemingly shallow sided lagoon. In such a case, people view wading was harmless.
The signs should have specified the hazard.
20
I think "DANGER: ALLIGATORS" would have done the trick
21
"Danger: Alligator" wouldn't be good enough after a 1 in a million chance a kid gets brain-eating amoeba from the water.
My condolences to the family of Lane Graves. The loss of their under such strange circumstances is so heartbreaking, especially when it did not have to happen. However, I completely blame his parents for not heeding the warning - No swimming! Their non-compliance and negligience lead to this tragedy. Disney cannot be blamed. It is definitely the parents' cross to bear.
4
Sorry, but I don't read "no swimming" as "don't even put your toe in the water." There were numerous alligators in that lagoon, as the search proved, and Disney didn't want to spoil their Shangri-la with more explicit signs.
18
Please cease and desist with blaming the parents about the attack and death of their lovely young son. The tropical lagoons and canals of Florida are home to numerous snakes and deadly alligators. Tourists from the Mid-west have most likely never seen an alligator except on TV. A young man from Oklahoma recently died from the riptide on the New Jersey shore. He might have been a good swimmer in a pool or a lake but was unaccustomed to the dangers of the ocean.
..very sad.
..very sad.
33
I am sorry but I do blame the foolish parents. Not criminal? Borderline. The sign says no swimming. Period. The parents foolishly did just this. When does responsibility begin with parents. I am a person tired of ruining the world to make it perfect for foolish humans. The gators are a very big part of the ecosystem. Humans not so much. MAybe they should have gone to a McDonald's playland instead. My old parents think the parents should be charged with child endangerment. If they are smart enough to use a car seat, then they should have cared enough to NOT swim in open water in FLA!
7
In response to Daniel.-
Maybe you should read the article again, and then again. The small child was NOT swimming. ]Alligators can run quite well, grab a person, even an adult, and seize it as fast or faster than anybody can get sufficiently away. The resort's decoration and setting eeven places chairs on the "beach". As signs must be carefully "tailored" not to be too scary in order to not hurt the business, this accident was just waiting to happen. Placing the blame on the tourist is myopic and quite insensible. You should not blame the parents. I hope your exaggerated love for animals do not cause another human to be sacrificed in the name of the Sacred Nature! IT could have been your son.
Maybe you should read the article again, and then again. The small child was NOT swimming. ]Alligators can run quite well, grab a person, even an adult, and seize it as fast or faster than anybody can get sufficiently away. The resort's decoration and setting eeven places chairs on the "beach". As signs must be carefully "tailored" not to be too scary in order to not hurt the business, this accident was just waiting to happen. Placing the blame on the tourist is myopic and quite insensible. You should not blame the parents. I hope your exaggerated love for animals do not cause another human to be sacrificed in the name of the Sacred Nature! IT could have been your son.
16
The alligators can emerge from water, catch prey, and go back to the water. It might have been a good idea to close this area of the park at night. The alligators are used to humans by now and are relatively fearless.
There are also monitor lizards and white pythons in Florida, both smuggled in by people who wanted to show off an exotic animal.
Most people a few states away don't know this. People wanting an escape-type vacation aren't going to focus on the negative even if it could save their life.
There are also monitor lizards and white pythons in Florida, both smuggled in by people who wanted to show off an exotic animal.
Most people a few states away don't know this. People wanting an escape-type vacation aren't going to focus on the negative even if it could save their life.
6
I'm from Florida, born & raised, so I've known about the dangers of being in or near water especially at night all my life. It's just something we all know down here. You stay on the look-out for snakes and gators, especially in central and south FL. I admit I was originally dumbfounded by these parents, but reminded myself that they would probably never think of gators in a "beach" setting. It's just a very sad and tragic situation.
20
I love your post. There is a question we have to ask. Why are gators attacking humans? Hunger? What is wrong with the ecosystem? Is there something we should know? This is unusual and we all know most gators will avoid humans. Crocks, not so much. Still, a boy is dead. Sad.
6
The gator released the child so it wasn't a starvation issue. Simply natural reactions to something floundering in the water. Truly sad but totally avoidable.
4
"Why are gators attacking humans?" To eat. They don't do it out of spite, it's survival. I lived in Central Fl for many years, the gators fear humans and will avoid contact if possible. Unless they're fed by stupid humans, then they lose the fear. This was a very small human splashing around in ankle-deep water, NOT swimming. Disney has liability for not having warning signs about the gators. "No Swimming" doesn't cut it.
16
Alligators are going to do what they're going to do. We can't really blame them any more than we can blame a tornado for killing people. I disagree with those who say we need to 'thin' their population or try to keep them away from humans. Anybody who's lived in Florida knows that's not really practical. Rather, humans need to be kept away from them. Disney tried to do that with their 'No Swimming' signs, but probably should upgrade those to 'stay away from the water because there are gators everywhere' signs.
I think the lesson here is that you can't get 100% of people to follow the rules even if it's for their own good. Even if there'd been signs warning that you could be eaten if you get too close to the water, I'm absolutely certain some people would do it anyway. At the end of the day, your personal safety and that of your family is down to you alone. Disney, the government, police, whoever, they can't protect everyone all the time from everything. Does this mean stuff like this will happen? Yes, probably, and it is tragic, but all you can do is try to inform people to the dangers around them and hope most of them listen.
I think the lesson here is that you can't get 100% of people to follow the rules even if it's for their own good. Even if there'd been signs warning that you could be eaten if you get too close to the water, I'm absolutely certain some people would do it anyway. At the end of the day, your personal safety and that of your family is down to you alone. Disney, the government, police, whoever, they can't protect everyone all the time from everything. Does this mean stuff like this will happen? Yes, probably, and it is tragic, but all you can do is try to inform people to the dangers around them and hope most of them listen.
9
There are signs that bathing in the lagoon is not allowed. The sandy beaches were once swimming areas but the water are now off limits because of illness causing organisms, which is why Disney built a lot of new pools in the surrounding hotels. I still see people wading into the water right next to the signs. I admit, that saying the water has alligators would probably keep more people out but the advisory not to enter the water is very clear.
I can see a lawsuit coming out of this death. The personal injury lawyers are probably climbing all over each other to get to the family first. This is the first death by an alligator at Disney in 45 years. They do have a comprehensive program to keep wildlife away from visitors. Do they have to erect a chainlink fence around the lagoon to prevent people who ignore the signs from entering the water? Not to blame the victims, but why was a two year old in the water? His parents ignored the signs and allowed their child to wade in a forbidden area. Parents are lax with discipline at Disney but that doesn't make the resort responsible.
I can see a lawsuit coming out of this death. The personal injury lawyers are probably climbing all over each other to get to the family first. This is the first death by an alligator at Disney in 45 years. They do have a comprehensive program to keep wildlife away from visitors. Do they have to erect a chainlink fence around the lagoon to prevent people who ignore the signs from entering the water? Not to blame the victims, but why was a two year old in the water? His parents ignored the signs and allowed their child to wade in a forbidden area. Parents are lax with discipline at Disney but that doesn't make the resort responsible.
11
"No swimming", and "no wading", are two different things. As I live on the coast of New England, when I see a sign that says "no swimming", I think that there might be riptides, or rocks, or there is no lifeguard, or that there might be high levels of e-coli in the water. I don't think, "oh, I can't stroll at the water's edge because an alligator might jump out of the water and grab me." You have to take into account that people are coming to Disneyland with different sensibilities than the natives who are accustomed to living amongst these creatures.
22
Same with riptides along the Pacific Coast. Some beaches have a "no swimming" sign. Others with a different level of riptide danger have signs telling people not even to go near the edge of the water. Too much caution is preferable to betting on being lucky.
5
No Swimming?? That sounds to me like "Daddy Disney doesn't want you to swim here because it would dirty up the water", not that your child can be dragged to his/her death by an alligator.
31
That is ridiculous. This lagoon used to be a swimming area and the surrounding resorts had relatively small swimming pools. Many years ago they had to close all the naturally fed swimming areas, the Seven Seas Lagoon, Bay Lake and River Country because of pathogenic organisms in the water. They had to build large swimming pools and water play grounds at the hotels to make up for the lost swimming areas in the lagoons. They were not worried that the people would dirty the water. They were worried they could get sick.
6
Disney's got to get rid of those white-sand beaches. If gators can lunge at least 6 feet onto land, then Disney must create a 15-foot buffer zone between the Lagoon & its guests, with fences and signs warning specifically of alligators. Replace the sand with grass & trees.
Forget wading or swimming. Guests shouldn't have been playing in the sand, relaxing on chaise longue, or sitting on the beach for any reason, but especially to watch the fireworks and boat parade at dusk/night (during alligator feeding time), in the first place.
Another problem for Disney: Its brand-new Vacation Club Villas sit right above the water. They're "modeled after iconic over-water bungalows found in South Pacific resort destinations of Tahiti or Fiji," as Dave Parfitt put it in the Huff Post.
Disney just spent untold billions -- & irritated guests with year upon year of construction at its top three resorts (the Grand Floridian, the Polynesian, the Wilderness Lodge) as well as the Contemporary -- to build these overwater villas. Yes, they sit about six feet above the water on stilts; yes, the gated boardwalk (key card required) is fenced with roped and mesh; but at the Polynesian these bungalows start at $2,200/night (for the whole house; you can also book a studio starting at $470/night, which is comparable to the room rate at the "regular" Polynesian Resort), and this alligator attack will change the psychology of seeing living right on the water as the "ultimate in relaxation" and luxury.
Forget wading or swimming. Guests shouldn't have been playing in the sand, relaxing on chaise longue, or sitting on the beach for any reason, but especially to watch the fireworks and boat parade at dusk/night (during alligator feeding time), in the first place.
Another problem for Disney: Its brand-new Vacation Club Villas sit right above the water. They're "modeled after iconic over-water bungalows found in South Pacific resort destinations of Tahiti or Fiji," as Dave Parfitt put it in the Huff Post.
Disney just spent untold billions -- & irritated guests with year upon year of construction at its top three resorts (the Grand Floridian, the Polynesian, the Wilderness Lodge) as well as the Contemporary -- to build these overwater villas. Yes, they sit about six feet above the water on stilts; yes, the gated boardwalk (key card required) is fenced with roped and mesh; but at the Polynesian these bungalows start at $2,200/night (for the whole house; you can also book a studio starting at $470/night, which is comparable to the room rate at the "regular" Polynesian Resort), and this alligator attack will change the psychology of seeing living right on the water as the "ultimate in relaxation" and luxury.
20
When a crocodilian grabs a child, adult or pet, don't engage in a tug of war which inevitably you will lose. If you lack a firearm at hand, then your only chance, slim at that, is to jump on the reptile's back and repeatedly try to dig your knife or failing that, fingers, into its eyes until it loses interest in prolonging your newly forged, mutual acquaintance.
13
As a parent I cannot imagine the horror these parents witnessed as their child was taken away is such a violent and sudden manner. Imagine watching your child scream and not being not being able to save him. A child just two short years earlier you brought into this world and held him and cared for him along the way-first step, first words, etc. Imagine the magic of Disney just hours earlier where the park, the characters, the fireworks, the parades, the rides were as real to him as the touch of his hand in yours was to you. I can remember that magic with my kids as I saw Disney through their eyes. There is nothing like that kind of magic..... and then it was ripped away. What could be worse? Thoughts and prayers for this family. Just tragic.
32
This is unbearably sad. I've visited relatives in Florida for years, and I won't let my dogs (who are probably larger than a 2-year-old) anywhere near the water there because I'm constantly worried about gaters.
But being from Nebraska, the family must not have realized the danger. Their loss is so very devastating. I send them my sincerest condolences and can barely imagine the pain they must be feeling.
But being from Nebraska, the family must not have realized the danger. Their loss is so very devastating. I send them my sincerest condolences and can barely imagine the pain they must be feeling.
32
Why is there a beach if they don't want people to go into the water?
39
What a terrible tragedy. It seems that Disney could and should have done way more in the way of warning people than they did.
As one who works with wildlife, I am also saddened to read that five alligators had to lose their lives for doing what alligators do - look for food. When it comes between humans and wildlife, wildlife always loses.
As one who works with wildlife, I am also saddened to read that five alligators had to lose their lives for doing what alligators do - look for food. When it comes between humans and wildlife, wildlife always loses.
24
I feel Disney had done the duty. The parents are totally at fault. With you logic we should kill all natural animals like deer, birds and anything that runs, crawls and slithers. The parents failed, not Disney. But lets be clear, Disney is not perfect, but today they did the job.
1
"As one who works with wildlife, I am also saddened to read that five alligators had to lose their lives for doing what alligators do - look for food."
Sad, but very, very necessary. An alligator who has attacked a human must be put down since it is very likely to do it again. Bears and big cats who attack humans are put down for the same reason.
There is a recent supposedly "cute" video of a family feeding two bear cubs out the window of their car. I was horrified and wanted to scream "NO! NO! NO!" at the parents.
When more grown those two cubs are in danger of being shot when they approach people for food. People need to realize that feeding wildlife can be a death sentence for the animal - especially a carnivore.
Sad, but very, very necessary. An alligator who has attacked a human must be put down since it is very likely to do it again. Bears and big cats who attack humans are put down for the same reason.
There is a recent supposedly "cute" video of a family feeding two bear cubs out the window of their car. I was horrified and wanted to scream "NO! NO! NO!" at the parents.
When more grown those two cubs are in danger of being shot when they approach people for food. People need to realize that feeding wildlife can be a death sentence for the animal - especially a carnivore.
3
There is way too much blame going on here. Neither the parents nor Disney appear to be at fault. Such attacks are extremely rare, but they do happen. It might just as easily happened at a golf course, or walking along a stream in residential neighborhood.
Our litigious culture feeds on this need to blame, reflected not only in our courts but in the ridiculous number of "entertainment" television shows built on unfortunate incidents such as this.
Sometimes nature is the only thing to blame, as when my 14-month-old died of complications of disease. Now is the time to let the parents grieve and support them as we are able.
They will punish themselves, even if they don't deserve it.
Our litigious culture feeds on this need to blame, reflected not only in our courts but in the ridiculous number of "entertainment" television shows built on unfortunate incidents such as this.
Sometimes nature is the only thing to blame, as when my 14-month-old died of complications of disease. Now is the time to let the parents grieve and support them as we are able.
They will punish themselves, even if they don't deserve it.
24
NO, no, no you can't create a beach by a luxury hotel, invite all the world, appealing especially to children and then allow alligators into the water. We are indeed too litigious but they created a deadly condition, an accident waiting to happen.
And should this deadly condition be excused because it's in Florida? That type of logic astounds.
And should this deadly condition be excused because it's in Florida? That type of logic astounds.
16
I disagree. It is clearly stated, no swimming. A case in Australia recently where tow women disregarded signs not to swim went in for a dip and a croc got one of them. The gov of Australia said the women were at fault, not the croc.
4
Can't you understand it's not a matter of "allowing" alligators in the water in Florida?
8
It’s unbelievable that the world’s most famous theme park would even have a pond with deadly killer animals anywhere on it’s premises. And animals that lurk in the water, and can’t be seen until they suddenly appear, with horrific results. It’s astounding and criminal.
Why aren’t these ponds drained and filled in? What in the world is their purpose? At least there should be high fences, not allowing anyone in at all, never mind to come to the water’s edge or sit near by. Alligators move swiftly on land. Just a no swimming sign? What a sick joke. This is gross negligence endangering the public.
Seems Disney wants to protect these deadly animals.
I’m amazed at some of the comments defending a big corporation against any criticism. But we always, see this---no matter what criminal acts corporations commit that harm the public, there’s always some that defend them no matter what. The defenders live in a corporate Disney world of their own.
Why aren’t these ponds drained and filled in? What in the world is their purpose? At least there should be high fences, not allowing anyone in at all, never mind to come to the water’s edge or sit near by. Alligators move swiftly on land. Just a no swimming sign? What a sick joke. This is gross negligence endangering the public.
Seems Disney wants to protect these deadly animals.
I’m amazed at some of the comments defending a big corporation against any criticism. But we always, see this---no matter what criminal acts corporations commit that harm the public, there’s always some that defend them no matter what. The defenders live in a corporate Disney world of their own.
13
Spoken like a New Yorker for sure!
5
"Why aren’t these ponds drained and filled in?"
Because they very nearly can't. Between the rain and the high water table holes fill right bake or get formed by collapsing sink holes. Where I grew up we could hit water three to four feet down. Our house had to be propped up and door frames separated from walls because the house kept sinking. Darn near the whole state is like that especially from Central Florida to South Florida.
Because they very nearly can't. Between the rain and the high water table holes fill right bake or get formed by collapsing sink holes. Where I grew up we could hit water three to four feet down. Our house had to be propped up and door frames separated from walls because the house kept sinking. Darn near the whole state is like that especially from Central Florida to South Florida.
8
The whole thing -- including Disney World itself -- will be moot after the polar ice caps melt and submerge most of the state of Florida.
5
I find some of the news reporting sort of ghoulish. One popular news program beginning with C tried to elicit from law enforcement was the child "chewed" up. Were all his body parts Intact or missing.
1
I think what people want to know was, did the gator kill the child directly, or did it drop him and he subsequently drowned (which was the case). It's human nature, when trying to process something as horrific as this in our minds, to want to at least understand what happened to the little boy and know what he went through. I don't think they were necessarily looking for graphic descriptions.
4
I've read in multiple articles that the body was indeed intact.
3
"I think what people want to know was, did the gator kill the child directly, or did it drop him and he subsequently drowned (which was the case)."
The NORMAL way for a gator to kill its prey is to hold the prey underwater until it drowns. The body may be left to decompose for a while to make it easier for the gator to eat it.
The NORMAL way for a gator to kill its prey is to hold the prey underwater until it drowns. The body may be left to decompose for a while to make it easier for the gator to eat it.
3
Disney will undoubtedly pay through the nose for this, but the parents probably already know that will not make them feel any better. There is nobody here that will not pay one way or another.
Disney does post signs, but there is no way they can monitor for alligators. Those things can be two feet away from you and you have no idea they are there. Will Disney end all the water transportation and fence off all the water areas? That's what it will take to make it the safest it can be. Would you want to go there if they did those things?
Disney does post signs, but there is no way they can monitor for alligators. Those things can be two feet away from you and you have no idea they are there. Will Disney end all the water transportation and fence off all the water areas? That's what it will take to make it the safest it can be. Would you want to go there if they did those things?
10
"No Swimming" signs are posted on the beach. The child's parents are negligent because they failed to prevent him from entering the area where swimming is banned. This is similar to the situation at the Ohio zoo where a rare great ape was killed because of a child's parents' negligence.
15
Read a couple of posts just above yours. Indeed some people are literally calling for Disney to fill in every last square inch of watering hole on their entire property. Dont leave so much as a puddle or somebody'll sue for "wildlife."
9
My condolences to the family for their terrible loss.
16
I read four comments and had to stop. This was a freak incident. But there should be signs warning people of wildlife including alligators. I worry about everything and I don't think this one would have occurred to me nor many others.
12
Unbearably sad. I hope there is happiness in their lives again, but I don't know if I could find it were I in their place. If they don't blame themselves (and I don't know enough to judge them or Disney, but I admit a bias), they will feel others will blame them and there are limits to stoicism; I don't know how they can not think of him or how they can think of him and not see this in their mind's eye, short of drugs, and that's not a good answer.
Florida is not my favorite state (too hot, too flat, sharks and alligators), but it is the favorite of a lot of people I know and consequently I have gone there more than any other state. But, I don't go in the water much when I'm there any more, except in pools. Not in the ocean for long or often (I think once or twice in the last two weeks I was there) and never ever in a lake or pond. I know the statistics are very low, but I also know that I don't want to be one of those statistics. I would never let a little kid in my charge even close to a body of water of which I could not see the entirety and know it was clear, including a pool or ornamental ponds on private properties. I don't know if the parents realized how dangerous it is or if they thought because it is Disney that it had to be safe. Doesn't matter much now. Feels bad even to write this.
Florida is not my favorite state (too hot, too flat, sharks and alligators), but it is the favorite of a lot of people I know and consequently I have gone there more than any other state. But, I don't go in the water much when I'm there any more, except in pools. Not in the ocean for long or often (I think once or twice in the last two weeks I was there) and never ever in a lake or pond. I know the statistics are very low, but I also know that I don't want to be one of those statistics. I would never let a little kid in my charge even close to a body of water of which I could not see the entirety and know it was clear, including a pool or ornamental ponds on private properties. I don't know if the parents realized how dangerous it is or if they thought because it is Disney that it had to be safe. Doesn't matter much now. Feels bad even to write this.
8
This is honestly one of the saddest stories I have ever heard. I completely agree with those who are "appalled" that the parents are being blamed. NO parent is perfect - far from it - and even the best parents, the most watchful, the most attentive, the most loving, could have something like this happen to them. It was an accident, one likely borne of horrible timing and a confluence of events as opposed to bad parenting. A horrible, tragic accident, and the parents and this poor little boy's family need LOVE and SUPPORT and not the mean-spirited chatter of people who were not even there at the time and in absolutely no position to cast judgment. My heart absolutely breaks for his parents and family, and I wish them peace during this horrible time.
37
Body intact suggests that instinct and not hunger drove the gator to attack.
The gators need thinning or relocation. Did regularly feeding ones in this Disney lake something like ground up fish or chicken necks cause so many to breed or gather in this artificial lake?
We have become inclined to romanticize wild beasts. People used to feed Hilton Head's gators as if they were pets. Perhaps a little girl's death from gator in the 1970s stopped that at Hilton Head.
Disney cartoons show people interacting with cobras, lions, tigers, and panthers as if they were only modestly temperamental pets. Some keep these animals as near pets, then on one fateful day get badly bitten.
Meshuggah! Abs. meshuggah! Wild animals are just that!
Raising them as pets, letting people get near them, or vice-versa is just meshuggah!
The gators need thinning or relocation. Did regularly feeding ones in this Disney lake something like ground up fish or chicken necks cause so many to breed or gather in this artificial lake?
We have become inclined to romanticize wild beasts. People used to feed Hilton Head's gators as if they were pets. Perhaps a little girl's death from gator in the 1970s stopped that at Hilton Head.
Disney cartoons show people interacting with cobras, lions, tigers, and panthers as if they were only modestly temperamental pets. Some keep these animals as near pets, then on one fateful day get badly bitten.
Meshuggah! Abs. meshuggah! Wild animals are just that!
Raising them as pets, letting people get near them, or vice-versa is just meshuggah!
3
Alligators hunt even when not hungry. After drowning the prey they bury it in their mud bank hideaway and save it for later.
8
Alligators drown their prey, then they cache them, like bears do, only underwater. Gruesome as it sounds, they let the body decompose a bit before eating it. Also, they're used to eating small prey like ducks and geese. A human is much larger, so an arm or a leg may satiate the gator, then he stores the rest for later.
As for the body being intact -- of course the police are going to say that. They would not engage in ghoulish reverie with the press. It's a little boy.
The boy's body may have been missing a body part, but was largely intact. Which is what often happens with gator victims when they are quickly recovered.
As for the body being intact -- of course the police are going to say that. They would not engage in ghoulish reverie with the press. It's a little boy.
The boy's body may have been missing a body part, but was largely intact. Which is what often happens with gator victims when they are quickly recovered.
1
"Disney's got to get rid of those white-sand beaches. If gators can lunge at least 6 feet onto land, then Disney must create a 15-foot buffer zone between the Lagoon & its guests, with fences and signs warning specifically of alligators. Replace the sand with grass & trees.
Forget wading or swimming. Guests shouldn't have been playing in the sand, relaxing on chaise longue, or sitting on the beach for any reason, but especially to watch the fireworks and boat parade at dusk/night (during alligator feeding time), in the first place.
Another problem for Disney: Its brand-new Vacation Club Villas sit right above the water. They're "modeled after iconic over-water bungalows found in South Pacific resort destinations of Tahiti or Fiji," as Dave Parfitt put it in the Huff Post.
Disney just spent untold billions -- & irritated guests with year upon year of construction at its top three resorts (the Grand Floridian, the Polynesian, the Wilderness Lodge) as well as the Contemporary -- to build these overwater villas. Yes, they sit about six feet above the water on stilts; yes, the gated boardwalk (key card required) is fenced with roped and mesh; but at the Polynesian these bungalows start at $2,200/night (for the whole house; you can also book a studio starting at $470/night, which is comparable to the room rate at the "regular" Polynesian Resort), and this alligator attack will change the psychology of seeing living right on the water as the "ultimate in relaxation" and luxury.
Forget wading or swimming. Guests shouldn't have been playing in the sand, relaxing on chaise longue, or sitting on the beach for any reason, but especially to watch the fireworks and boat parade at dusk/night (during alligator feeding time), in the first place.
Another problem for Disney: Its brand-new Vacation Club Villas sit right above the water. They're "modeled after iconic over-water bungalows found in South Pacific resort destinations of Tahiti or Fiji," as Dave Parfitt put it in the Huff Post.
Disney just spent untold billions -- & irritated guests with year upon year of construction at its top three resorts (the Grand Floridian, the Polynesian, the Wilderness Lodge) as well as the Contemporary -- to build these overwater villas. Yes, they sit about six feet above the water on stilts; yes, the gated boardwalk (key card required) is fenced with roped and mesh; but at the Polynesian these bungalows start at $2,200/night (for the whole house; you can also book a studio starting at $470/night, which is comparable to the room rate at the "regular" Polynesian Resort), and this alligator attack will change the psychology of seeing living right on the water as the "ultimate in relaxation" and luxury.
8
That initial quotation mark is a typo. I wasn't quoting anyone. (In the last paragraph, "roped" is another typo.)
2
The buffer zone is the ticket. That was my thought. Fences won't work, either for alligators or for people. If people wander into the buffer zone there will be time to tell them to get back out of it.
6
My thought was, if they are having outdoor movie night close to that beach, and there are chaise lounges set up along the beach, it gives the impression that it is okay to get close to the edge of the water, as long as you do not go into the water or swim. If they posted signs saying "Danger! Gators and venomous snakes inhabit this area" parents would be very vigilant about not letting their kids play in the vicinity of the water's edge. "No swimming" signs sound more like "keep off the grass" than "Danger! Do not enter!" You don't have to be even wading in the water to be attacked by a gator who is submerged in the murky water, if you are a small child or a pet.
9
Florida is so dangerous if a person isn't careful about alligators. They are virtually everywhere in our state, including in canals and ponds only a few feet from condominiums and houses. The tragedy of Lane Graves is a very rare occurrence here. It will remind me to continue being careful. I bicycle in a park by our local zoo and there are alligator warning signs posted beside the ponds and benches where people sit to picnic or take breaks. Lake Okeechobee alone is said to be home to 100,000 alligators.
12
I disagree with pretty much most of what everyone has said on this issue. There was a sign there and it said "swimming not permitted in the lagoon" - a two year old should be closely watched and I would never have allowed a two year old near that water - toddlers can drown in very small amounts of water. Although the loss is unimaginable, it is the parent's fault for not watching their child more closely and there are consequences for this - even if 100% unfair.
In America, we have falsely learned that it is never our mistake, but always someone else's and we have a legal system that supports this mentality of finger pointing at everyone but ourselves. It gets us into trouble both at home and abroad. Tourists everywhere - you need to pay attention to signs and heed warnings. And, parents, a two year old should not be playing in the water where a sign is posted saying no swimming - that also means no wading, etc.
In America, we have falsely learned that it is never our mistake, but always someone else's and we have a legal system that supports this mentality of finger pointing at everyone but ourselves. It gets us into trouble both at home and abroad. Tourists everywhere - you need to pay attention to signs and heed warnings. And, parents, a two year old should not be playing in the water where a sign is posted saying no swimming - that also means no wading, etc.
13
Wrong on so many levels.
"No swimming" does not equal "there are alligators at waters edge".
"No swimming" in the heat of FL in June at Disney does not mean "no wading", especially at a beach.
The 2 year old had to be given a bit of room to play and frolic....especially at Disney. Had the parents been right next to him the alligator would still have attacked.
I believe in personal responsibility. But the parents are not responsible for this, no way no how. Disney created a beach-like environment only to allow alligators into the water. Grossly negligent which can allow for punitive damages. Facts are still to be uncovered but the guilt to be suffered by these poor parents cannot be understood or grasped by the rest of us.
"No swimming" does not equal "there are alligators at waters edge".
"No swimming" in the heat of FL in June at Disney does not mean "no wading", especially at a beach.
The 2 year old had to be given a bit of room to play and frolic....especially at Disney. Had the parents been right next to him the alligator would still have attacked.
I believe in personal responsibility. But the parents are not responsible for this, no way no how. Disney created a beach-like environment only to allow alligators into the water. Grossly negligent which can allow for punitive damages. Facts are still to be uncovered but the guilt to be suffered by these poor parents cannot be understood or grasped by the rest of us.
9
Wow... Have you ever been to a child's funeral? You should repeat everything you typed here to the parents to their faces. An unforeseen traffic accident happened. These parents need support, not blaming/shaming. How ridiculous that parents are blamed for freak accidents. It even says the parents were right there and they fought with the alligator but lost. They have just gone through the unthinkable and those moments will be with them the rest of their lives. They had to WATCH their baby be forcibly taken from them! I can't even imagine what these parents are feeling and for people like you to blame them for not being attentive enough is absolutely insulting.
8
"... it is the parent's fault for not watching their child more closely..."
They were watching him. You could have a microscope on your child. The alligator won't care.
They were watching him. You could have a microscope on your child. The alligator won't care.
9
final thought. we don't really know if the parents knew there could possibly be alligators but even knowing does not place them at fault. life is, by definition, risk and eventually we all succumb. their behavior was not beyond the pale in any way. no child has ever been killed by an alligator there and they were following the footsteps of many thousands if not millions who had walked the same path unscathed. the fact that I know that driving poses a risk does not mean that I am a bad parent every time I load my son in the car. and it still would not even if, god forbid, we are t-boned by somebody running a stop sign.
6
With few exceptions, most seem to see this as a blame game. In my humble opinion, its a perfect storm of errors and nobody has 100% of the fault:
To the family: My heart aches for you. The hard truth is: if you choose to blow off signs that tell you not to do something (and we have all done it) we must at least be willing to accept the consequences of that decision if it goes wrong for us. In this case, it was tragic. I'm sorry, but you have to own that decision.
To Disney: Whereas the guest blew off your warning, its reasonable they did so because they failed to understand the potential consequences of that decision. It doesn't make their decision "ok" but it puts it in a far different context. Whereas you may not be required to define WHY you don't allow anyone in the water, you could have done more to put an exclamation point on the risk. I'm sure this will change.
To Nick and Christine: Your story is a bit misleading. You show a picture of a beach misleading readers into thinking this happened in an area designed for people to be in and around the water. It didn't happen there, those areas are better monitored and protected. You don't make clear enough that this happened late in the evening. That changes the context of any "swimming/wading" decision. Lastly, it's fair to mention how RARE this sort of thing is. It's NEVER happened in Disney's 45 year history and I'm sure MILLION's have violated the no swimming signs.
Disney will settle this fast.
To the family: My heart aches for you. The hard truth is: if you choose to blow off signs that tell you not to do something (and we have all done it) we must at least be willing to accept the consequences of that decision if it goes wrong for us. In this case, it was tragic. I'm sorry, but you have to own that decision.
To Disney: Whereas the guest blew off your warning, its reasonable they did so because they failed to understand the potential consequences of that decision. It doesn't make their decision "ok" but it puts it in a far different context. Whereas you may not be required to define WHY you don't allow anyone in the water, you could have done more to put an exclamation point on the risk. I'm sure this will change.
To Nick and Christine: Your story is a bit misleading. You show a picture of a beach misleading readers into thinking this happened in an area designed for people to be in and around the water. It didn't happen there, those areas are better monitored and protected. You don't make clear enough that this happened late in the evening. That changes the context of any "swimming/wading" decision. Lastly, it's fair to mention how RARE this sort of thing is. It's NEVER happened in Disney's 45 year history and I'm sure MILLION's have violated the no swimming signs.
Disney will settle this fast.
8
When in National Parks or wilderness areas, I see many parents letting their children loose in potentially risky environments and overhear comments that they must think they're at Disney World. I guess that will no longer be an apt comparison... This is a tragedy where 'parental neglect' isn't even a small factor, and I'm shocked that anyone commenting would think otherwise. As others have noted, a 'now swimming' sign suggest water that's not maintained for swimming i.e. either pollution control or other considerations. It would NEVER occur to me that it was unsafe to splash on the beach because of alligators unless that was clearly posted- and even I'm aware that there are alligators running around in Florida's lakes and rivers- and occasionally backyard pools. So please stop with the parental blame game- I always feel like these comments come from those who don't have children; or are so arrogant that they believe they have some unique ability to protect their children from all harm. A horrible way to end a vacation. Condolences to this family. And Disney- please make your signs more explicit.
19
You said everything I was thinking, perfectly! I grew up in Northwest Florida, across the street from a small lake which has NO gators (although there are water moccasins". Not having actually seen a gator in the wild in our area of Florida, seeing a "no swimming" sign in our area usually means that the water is either polluted or could have parasites that you would not want to ingest through your mouth, nose, or ears, but you could still hunt for tadpoles or crawdads along the edge. Apparently not in this lagoon. I feel really badly for the parents, and I hope Disney will erect warning signs about both gators and snakes, and provide information to their guests about the dangerous wildlife in the area when they register. I'm surprised they didn't do that after the 3rd grader was attacked by the 7-foot gator in 1986 at the Disney Fort Wilderness resort (although he survived). That should have been a wake-up call to Disney.
5
It is ironic that the Peter Pan ride, one of the most popular in Disney parks around the world, features a flesh eating crocodile who endlessly pursues Captain Hook after eating one of his hands.
6
That'll disappear fast.
7
What I don't understand is why, at a children/family resort, a sandy "beach" leads in to a body of water that is not safe for swimming, for whatever reason. When a two year old is building a sandcastle on a beach he generally is drawn to the water, if for no other reason than to rinse off sandy hands. It's the invitation to the water that Disney provided. Indeed Disney is responsible!
22
I agree. I also find it odd that the signs that were posted did not include "Danger: Alligators!"
16
To the parents who lost their son: I feel so horrible for you because of your loss. Life can be so difficult at times, but don't allow yourselves to become a victim of guilt. To the commenters with their caustic comments and criticism -- you deserve a dose of karma. I'd smash your words if I could.
17
I've read through a lot of these comments and I no longer wonder why we are such a litigious society. While reasonable people would agree that Disney should have had more specific signs highlighting alligators (and there had been several sightings just this week,) the people who are making excuses for allowing a toddler to go in a weedy, murky lagoon, at night, in the dark, when there is a No Swimming sign, shows the real lack of responsibility in people now.
To me, NO SWIMMING means don't go near the water. Not just moving my arms and legs in a swimming motion, as people here claim. The water could have dangerous bacteria in it - you all would let you kids put their feet in there, really? It might have a steep drop-off, as it actually did - how long do you think it would take a child to step off, go under and now, in the dark, you can't find him? I would, at the very least, ask why there is No Swimming before letting my child go near that water, especially since there was a very nice little wading pool yards away.
This is not being cruel or mean, or unempathetic. It's taking a rational look at how this happened. Disney is at fault, but they are not alone. People need to not assume the world is made safe for them, that coffee is hot and shouldn't be spilled on your lap, that fresh water in Florida often contains gators - this is all common sense, even if you don't live if Florida.
To me, NO SWIMMING means don't go near the water. Not just moving my arms and legs in a swimming motion, as people here claim. The water could have dangerous bacteria in it - you all would let you kids put their feet in there, really? It might have a steep drop-off, as it actually did - how long do you think it would take a child to step off, go under and now, in the dark, you can't find him? I would, at the very least, ask why there is No Swimming before letting my child go near that water, especially since there was a very nice little wading pool yards away.
This is not being cruel or mean, or unempathetic. It's taking a rational look at how this happened. Disney is at fault, but they are not alone. People need to not assume the world is made safe for them, that coffee is hot and shouldn't be spilled on your lap, that fresh water in Florida often contains gators - this is all common sense, even if you don't live if Florida.
7
If we are handing out blame there is no way to ignore the Disney Corporation's culpability in this tragedy. The family was clearly abiding by the posted warning. They were not swimming. A toddler was splashing about in shallow water. If the Disney management was truthful they would have posted signs that said "Alligator attacks can occur, do not enter the water." To expect that a family, lulled by the hyper-controlled Disney experience, could have foreseen this danger is ludicrous. Perhaps the danger of alligator attacks is common knowledge to Floridians but I suspect the Nebraskan family had no such knowledge. It is my sincere hope that the Disney Corporation show their vaunted commitment to "family" and ponies up a settlement that will provide some relief for this families agony. It would be truly tragic if this poor family were forced to compound their grief and suffering by being emotionally slapped around by a cadre of well paid Disney attorneys trying to save the multi-billion dollar company in an extended courtroom battle.
13
Well said.
2
Reading these posts, made me wonder if Florida is worth visiting at all for those concerned with their personal safety. If the state law is developed toward protecting primarily itself in such situations, then the entering road signs and airports should warn all visitors of the potential danger of an alligator snatching you toward dusk or in the early morning hours.
If you live in most areas of the U.S. "no swimming" means just that, no swimming. To a reasonable person, swimming means swimming. Perhaps, "Stay Away from the Water" may have more on point. A man made lake in a resort catering to children should expect the unexpected and plan well in advance. White sandy beaches and lawn chairs at a resort are inviting, not indicative of the potential for an alligator attack.
If you live in most areas of the U.S. "no swimming" means just that, no swimming. To a reasonable person, swimming means swimming. Perhaps, "Stay Away from the Water" may have more on point. A man made lake in a resort catering to children should expect the unexpected and plan well in advance. White sandy beaches and lawn chairs at a resort are inviting, not indicative of the potential for an alligator attack.
3
"Reading these posts, made me wonder if Florida is worth visiting at all for those concerned with their personal safety."
This will be mute point in a few years when all or most of Florida is under water.
This will be mute point in a few years when all or most of Florida is under water.
1
Lane's family will be awarded millions for Disney's gross negligence, but what his family has lost is priceless. My heart goes out to them.
10
So, Castles in the background, it's Disney, fantasy, everything is beautiful, its' Disney. They make a beautiful beach area and I am sure many visitors have waded in that water. Disney is 1000% to blame. These people were not swimming. Disney made it a fantasy beach. Of course they couldn't put alligator warnings, that would take away from their fantasy theme of the real world out there. Frighten people, take away from their ambiance. There should have definitely been alligator warning signs no matter what. It was movie beach night, did I say its' Fantasy Disney with a beautiful lagoon and beach chairs. Come on. They did not let their child wander off like some other recent stories in the news....It took the tragedy of that beautiful little boy for changes to be made and that always happens. Three tragedies in a row for Orlando. OMG. unfathomable. Of course getting money from Disney will never bring that beautiful little boy back, but it will help with their other children. They deserve millions. It was Disney World's fault. People need to know alligators are lurking in those waters. The alligator was being an alligator. It is so so unfortunate.
9
Um "per cent", by definition, only goes to 100. ;-) But I agree 100% with everything you said. They didn't put up alligator warnings because that would have destroyed the "fantasy land" experience with a dose of Florida real-world reality. A very similar attack happened in 1986 with a third-grade boy, at Fort Wilderness resort, and he wasn't even down in the water -- he was just stooped down at the edge, when the alligator "exploded out of the water" and grabbed him. Fortunately he and his two siblings managed to keep him from being dragged under until the gator let go of him. After that event there should have been signs EVERYWHERE warning not of "swimming", but of allowing your children or pets anywhere within at least 6 feet of any water's edge, but unfortunately there was no Internet in 1986 to get the public in an outrage about the lack of alligator warning signage, so nothing was done.
In north Florida, where I grew up, we swam and skiied in lakes (Blue Lake, Crystal Lake) without problems with gators; even ponds which were unsafe for swimming were not dangerous to wade along the edge to catch tadpoles or crawdads, which we all did every summer. My point is that if even we (northwest Floridians) forget that alligators can be submerged in any body of murky water in mid- or south Florida, then those poor folks from up north had no chance at all. This was bound to happen again eventually, and this time it ended in tragedy.
In north Florida, where I grew up, we swam and skiied in lakes (Blue Lake, Crystal Lake) without problems with gators; even ponds which were unsafe for swimming were not dangerous to wade along the edge to catch tadpoles or crawdads, which we all did every summer. My point is that if even we (northwest Floridians) forget that alligators can be submerged in any body of murky water in mid- or south Florida, then those poor folks from up north had no chance at all. This was bound to happen again eventually, and this time it ended in tragedy.
7
I do feel bad for them, really. And it's true that I wasn't there, so I should probably shut up. But even just for the fact that they took their eyes off a two-year-old at water's edge...I don't know. I can't help but feel like, if that's my kid, either A) I get the kid back and everybody walks away; B) the alligator is dead, or C) I am. I know, I'm probably all wrong, and talk is cheap. But still...
In any case, these poor folks will probably never have another truly happy day in their lives. Here's hoping that at least their financial worries will soon be over, courtesy Disney. Not that there's any symmetry there. I am really so sorry for them.
In any case, these poor folks will probably never have another truly happy day in their lives. Here's hoping that at least their financial worries will soon be over, courtesy Disney. Not that there's any symmetry there. I am really so sorry for them.
3
"But even just for the fact that they took their eyes off a two-year-old at water's edge." You know that how? They could have watched this happen, every second of it. They probably did.
7
Dan - watch a video of how quickly a gator moves. You might reconsider your judgements against the parents.
6
It is our responsibility to educate ourselves about the local political, social, and environmental situations when we travel. Part of being a responsible traveler involves understanding the habits and possible risks posed to human beings by local wildlife. I cannot speak for this particular family, but it seems that typically U.S. travels are quintessential tourists, which means they seem to assume that wherever on earth they go there will or ought to be a McDonalds and other familiar safe havens that will guarantee an uninterrupted and sanitary, neutered experience of differences at a safe distance. Of course the Disney resorts bank on this illusion of safety and count on visitors' desire to invest in the illusion that here nothing unscripted and prohibited might happen, certainly not the intrusion of wild alligators and, never, of course, terrorism. There would indeed be nothing more alarming and worse for Disney than to have a terrorist attack on their property, precisely because, again, what people are purchasing is a pure image of a pure world where nothing truly bad -- meaning, nothing violent, but also nothing unexpected or genuinely different -- can happen. We buy into the world according to Disney at our peril. In fact it is remarkable that Disney can continue to exist in the so-called 'age of terrorism,' whereby the myth of a safe and predictable fundamentally American world (it's a small world after all) has been made less tenable than ever.
7
There should just be a sign on I95 when entering south Carolina, "beware of alligators".
Are people really that dense that they don't know that?
Are people really that dense that they don't know that?
6
"No swimming" is not an adequate warning. The warning should read "Alligators! Stay clear from water." and "Dangerous wildlife in water! Stay Clear!" So, the little boy was not swimming. He was wading. If "No Swimming" was the only signage, then Disney screwed this up royally. Signs the effect that I am describing would have saved this boy's life. If travelers, who are invited by Disney to visit their park, must have specific knowledge about the environment and wildlife present, then it is Disney's responsibility to inform them. The parents are in no way at fault. The fault is entirely Disney's if the signage is as reported here.
11
There will be time for blame at a less emotional moment. We are so steeped in commerce in this country that we can't resist putting a monetary value on everything.
This is the most horrible thing I can imagine for that family, and I don't want the sharks to steal the moment.
This is the most horrible thing I can imagine for that family, and I don't want the sharks to steal the moment.
3
Stress, and density. There are a lot of alligators in the Everglades and Florida water. During droughts their population concentrates and their sources of food diminish.
Having bicycled years back to the tip of the Everglades and across 'Alligator Alley' -- wildlife was abundant. Most people are unaware of how quickly an alligator can move in short bursts, especially in hot weather. Even as human habitation and development has branched out, climate change is causing water levels to rise and it logically follows that the population of gators will interact more and more frequently with humans.
Having bicycled years back to the tip of the Everglades and across 'Alligator Alley' -- wildlife was abundant. Most people are unaware of how quickly an alligator can move in short bursts, especially in hot weather. Even as human habitation and development has branched out, climate change is causing water levels to rise and it logically follows that the population of gators will interact more and more frequently with humans.
6
Where are the witnesseses?
2
I have learned a lot about people from this incident.
Many people don't know that 4-7 foot alligators:
1. are dangerous wild animals
2. live everywhere in Florida, even the smallest body of fresh water
3. naturally avoid humans
4. are not slimy
5. walk across land often
6. can climb over short fences
7. can burst out of the water to grab prey within a few yards of shore
8. are faster than people for very short distances
9. have jaws muscles too strong for the world's strongest human to open
10. have jaws muscles so weak that any teenager can hold them closed
11. don't know a small child from a dog or a duck
12. prefer to feed at dawn and dusk, often near shore
13. want an easy meal that is very close (within a few feet)
14. can be found even when submerged by watching for air bubbles
15. plan to kill large prey by taking it to deep water and drowning it, not by biting
16. will often break off an attack if met with resistance
17. are bothered by loud screaming
18. will often release a bite if hit hard on the snout and eyes
19. are strong, but can be physically managed in emergencies with a little knowledge
20. can be physically pulled backwards by the tail
21. are much easier to manage if their eyes are covered (a shirt can help)
22. can't immediately eat anything they can't eat in one bite (they can't chew)
Many people don't know that 4-7 foot alligators:
1. are dangerous wild animals
2. live everywhere in Florida, even the smallest body of fresh water
3. naturally avoid humans
4. are not slimy
5. walk across land often
6. can climb over short fences
7. can burst out of the water to grab prey within a few yards of shore
8. are faster than people for very short distances
9. have jaws muscles too strong for the world's strongest human to open
10. have jaws muscles so weak that any teenager can hold them closed
11. don't know a small child from a dog or a duck
12. prefer to feed at dawn and dusk, often near shore
13. want an easy meal that is very close (within a few feet)
14. can be found even when submerged by watching for air bubbles
15. plan to kill large prey by taking it to deep water and drowning it, not by biting
16. will often break off an attack if met with resistance
17. are bothered by loud screaming
18. will often release a bite if hit hard on the snout and eyes
19. are strong, but can be physically managed in emergencies with a little knowledge
20. can be physically pulled backwards by the tail
21. are much easier to manage if their eyes are covered (a shirt can help)
22. can't immediately eat anything they can't eat in one bite (they can't chew)
22
People complain about nasty corporations and powerful individuals who are willing to ignore any rule that gets between them and their wishes. Where do you think this willingness to ignore rules starts? It starts when children observe adults breaking the rules when it suits their need.
On any give day, people walk past Keep Out signs to snap that selfie at the Hot Springs or at the lip of the Grand Canyon. Someone with no wildlife experience whatsoever puts a buffalo calf in their car, even though touching wildlife is a well posted no-no at National Parks.
Resorts, zoos, parks and public places in general cannot remove all dangers or promise to keep you from harm. They do what should be adequate - they post signs or they create obvious barriers that should not be crossed or climbed over. Their only fault is that they expect people will honor those warnings.
The only way Disney could have prevented this would be to 1) not have any water features at all or, 2) erect a 6 foot chainlink fence, preferable topped with razor wire. Disney does have a team in place to deal with nusance animals just as the Park Service does.
If the sign says "no swimming", assume there's a good reason to stay out of the water.
On any give day, people walk past Keep Out signs to snap that selfie at the Hot Springs or at the lip of the Grand Canyon. Someone with no wildlife experience whatsoever puts a buffalo calf in their car, even though touching wildlife is a well posted no-no at National Parks.
Resorts, zoos, parks and public places in general cannot remove all dangers or promise to keep you from harm. They do what should be adequate - they post signs or they create obvious barriers that should not be crossed or climbed over. Their only fault is that they expect people will honor those warnings.
The only way Disney could have prevented this would be to 1) not have any water features at all or, 2) erect a 6 foot chainlink fence, preferable topped with razor wire. Disney does have a team in place to deal with nusance animals just as the Park Service does.
If the sign says "no swimming", assume there's a good reason to stay out of the water.
8
No swimming is not clear. Reasonable people interpret it differently. To me, it is different than "keep out," "no wading," or "beware alligators." Disney could have easily put out one of those signs instead. I don't think the parents here are to blame at all.
13
Even "no wading" is not sufficient because alligators will come onto shore after a meal. "Dangerous Alligators: Stay at least 5 yards away from the water's edge"
10
At least 5 yards away is correct -- "Do not approach water" would be more appropriate signage. The fact is that gators are ambush predators. They lie on the bottom of murky water, near the edge, and wait for something that looks like easy prey. They they explode out of the water (often several feet onto land) from below and grab its prey, then drag it down to drown it and eat it later. The movie "Crocodile Dundee" has a scene in which the New York reporter is washing her face at the edge of the water and a crocodile explodes out of the water and grabs the camera which is hanging around her neck. That is a pretty apt enactment of how gators attack.
4
This has a lot in common with the recent incident involving a gorilla at the Cincinnati zoo. Both of which ended tragically, though in different ways. It seems to me that the planners of such environments need to recognize that child behavior cannot be managed with signs and physical barriers designed with the expectation of responsible adult intervention.
6
I doubt the parents were as far away from this toddler as the article (and many of the commentators) imply.
Those blaming the family would have parents hovering within a quarter of an inch from their children for the first 18 years...and then complain about helicopter parenting.
Those blaming the family would have parents hovering within a quarter of an inch from their children for the first 18 years...and then complain about helicopter parenting.
14
Well, if your toddler is wading in any body of water, you should be pretty close by. The articles I read said that the mother was with the child. In the case of the child at the zoo, the mother allowed the child to go off on his own (or did not keep the child within sight or under control) so the child had time to climb a fence and get into the gorilla enclosure - parental responsibility for the incident was definitely there. In this tragic incident, a parent could have been holding the hand of the child at water's edge and the alligator would still have taken the child. One takes a child to the zoo to see the animals in enclosures and cages; one does not to go to the beach at a Disney resort hotel to offer the child to be snatched by alligators from under the water. Different expectations; especially since the hotel put up a movie on the beach suitable for viewing by families.
1
A 2 year-old cannot read, but the parents CAN! Read and respect the signs!
4
Nobody on the planet has earned their salary more than Sheriff Jerry Demings and the other law enforcement folks in Orange County this week. Unspeakably brutal 4 days. Thanks.
11
What happened to the days when you held your little kid's hand when out in public, at the zoo, at the beach?
6
This is simply nonsensical. No one holds their child's hand EVERY MOMENT at the beach. Or if you do, honestly you're a wack job, causing your child many other problems, even as you save them from alligators.
For God's sake, have you BEEN to a beach? Haven't you seen little kids running around?
For God's sake, have you BEEN to a beach? Haven't you seen little kids running around?
5
Given the strength and short-term speed of an alligator, I doubt that a parent's holding the child's hand would have saved him.
4
Disney said it was rethinking their signage. I have never met a two year old who could decipher the letters on a sign placed on a beach or anywhere for that matter. Really rethinking the signage?
How about rethinking allowing ANYONE on a beach where swimming is not allowed, where water is murky and where reptilian predators could wander in the water. In less than twenty four hours five alligators were found and killed.
Disney will be forced to come to terms with this tragedy and it will be a very costly lesson as attorneys line up.
Having said that, the unimaginable loss that this father and mother will feel forever is something that I pray they will someday being able to come to terms with.
It is not their fault. It is Disney.
How about rethinking allowing ANYONE on a beach where swimming is not allowed, where water is murky and where reptilian predators could wander in the water. In less than twenty four hours five alligators were found and killed.
Disney will be forced to come to terms with this tragedy and it will be a very costly lesson as attorneys line up.
Having said that, the unimaginable loss that this father and mother will feel forever is something that I pray they will someday being able to come to terms with.
It is not their fault. It is Disney.
2
"Disney will be forced to come to terms with this tragedy and it will be a very costly lesson as attorneys line up."
They can afford it; they'll use their savings from firing the U.S. employees they used to train their lower waged foreign H1B visa replacements.
They can afford it; they'll use their savings from firing the U.S. employees they used to train their lower waged foreign H1B visa replacements.
8
We have visited the Floridian and the neighboring resort Polynesian. We stood at the edge of the water on multiple occasions as did many other families. Tourists do not think of Disney resorts as swamps with alligators, especially when there are beach umbrellas and recliners laid out next to the water. They do not interpret a No Swimming sign as a warning about alligators. Many would think that the area is not approved for swimming due to lack of life guards. Accusing these parents of negligence is wrong. My deepest condolences to the family.
25
I saw this story on TV as breaking news when it was first reported. My grief was immediate and strong. I'm so sorry for this family and such a horrid, tragic accident. I can't imagine the horrors and nightmares they must be experiencing. My heart aches for them.
I do, though, agree with the comment about the euthanizing of 5 alligators to determine WHETHER 1 of them killed the boy. If the article is correct that the body was intact how can they hope to find evidence as to which 1 did it, if in fact 1 of these was even responsible? None of these might have done it. To kill 5 alligators on the chance that 1 might have done this, shows disregard for these animals who are living in their own habitat which is continually encroached upon by humans. I think Disney definitely should have posted alligator warning signs. Or better yet, have raised enclosed pools which are inaccessible to alligators. A lagoon area sounds wonderful, especially for Disney fans who know the Peter Pan movie and the mermaid lagoon. BUT, in an area where alligators might be present and have access to the shoreline? No way. My thoughts are with this family.
I do, though, agree with the comment about the euthanizing of 5 alligators to determine WHETHER 1 of them killed the boy. If the article is correct that the body was intact how can they hope to find evidence as to which 1 did it, if in fact 1 of these was even responsible? None of these might have done it. To kill 5 alligators on the chance that 1 might have done this, shows disregard for these animals who are living in their own habitat which is continually encroached upon by humans. I think Disney definitely should have posted alligator warning signs. Or better yet, have raised enclosed pools which are inaccessible to alligators. A lagoon area sounds wonderful, especially for Disney fans who know the Peter Pan movie and the mermaid lagoon. BUT, in an area where alligators might be present and have access to the shoreline? No way. My thoughts are with this family.
2
There were a few puncture wounds on the child's body where it gripped him. Maybe they hope to match up the distance in teeth marks? (I may have been watching too much "Forensic Files" lately).
2
Of course they could have put up a small fence or not make the area a sandy beach. That would detract from the happiest place in the world.
1
Prior to moving to southeastern North Carolina twelve years ago, I had no clue about the dangers of alligators. They can move up to 40 mph in short spurts. They can use their tails and "jump" up to six feet vertically. Most victims drown, from the death spiral, long before becoming a source of food. I am a well traveled (31 countries, all 50 states) individual, with a Masters degree, and prior to living in southeastern NC, I had no idea. There was no way, a family from Nebraska, would have known the dangers associated with being near marshland, or any source of water, particularly at night. There should have been signs. My deepest condolences to the family.
18
I agree with the other commentators - who suggest that this section should be shut down due to the negative comments about the parents. The parents suffered a horrific loss - with the additional tragedy of watching their beautiful child killed before their eyes. It is unimaginable. Comments that beat up the parents - are just plain callous.
20
If there were no signs saying "No swimming after dark", then I'd tend to agree with you. As a Florida native, I know that you NEVER go into fresh water after dark (unless, of course, it's a pool). As others have pointed out, gators tend to hunt at night. Furthermore, the darkness pretty much insures that you will not see one until he is practically on top of you. I understand that non-Florida natives may not know that or think about it, but you'd better believe that Disney management does. If there weren't signs, then shame on them. If there WERE signs, then shame on the parents for ignoring them.
2
EbbieS, I wonder if a member of your family were to die in a horrific manner if you would feel good abut others dismissing sadness over it as "maudlin weepers."
6
I don't know where I got it, maybe in a guidebook, but before my first trip to Florida (about 10 years ago) I recall reading about the importance of being vigilant when on the banks of, or near, bodies of water like this, because alligators were known to try to grab prey, including humans, from such areas. And I did follow those instructions. I have never been to Disney World, and don't know what the whole story is here, but am amazed Disney didn't post any warnings or perhaps provide info in its guest rooms, regarding safe behavior around alligator-laden waters as it has been reported alligators were known to be in that lake and tourists the previous week are said to have taken photos of them.
8
But Disney World is the "happiest place on earth"...how happy would it be if they acknowledged the presence of dangerous animals indigenous to the swamp on which it was built?
As one who grew up a few miles away from Disney and knew dozens of people who worked there, I can tell you that they are quite adept at ignoring dangers (posed by animals and, especially, by people) in order to keep the money flowing - er, I mean to keep the guests happy.
As one who grew up a few miles away from Disney and knew dozens of people who worked there, I can tell you that they are quite adept at ignoring dangers (posed by animals and, especially, by people) in order to keep the money flowing - er, I mean to keep the guests happy.
4
I am appalled that people are blaming the parents. I would like to ask them if they have looked at an e mail or texted while driving with children in the car?
That is infinitely more dangerous than being on the "beach" on Floridian in Disney World. There have been nearly a billion visitors to the park and this is the first alligator attack, leave alone death.
Lane, your parents loved you, they tried to sacrifice their life to save you. God had other plan. Rest in peace, little boy.
That is infinitely more dangerous than being on the "beach" on Floridian in Disney World. There have been nearly a billion visitors to the park and this is the first alligator attack, leave alone death.
Lane, your parents loved you, they tried to sacrifice their life to save you. God had other plan. Rest in peace, little boy.
27
Not the first alligator attack (Disney conveniently forgets to mention the third-grade boy in 1986), but this is the first fatality.
Of course they euthanized the alligators. How else can humans make right of a terrible tragedy than to blame and destroy other species. Pathetic.
25
You are so correct they have killed 6 alligators already. Sad what if you dont find the one that killed the boy should they just continue to kill gators.
2
Well you have to get rid of the gator that likes to eat children... what's wrong with you?
5
I always found the faux beaches at Disney odd since one wasn't allowed in the water (My interpretation of No Swimming though I understand perhaps it wasn't firm enough). I also knew the water was a hazard from hearing stories of brain-eating Amoebas in fresh water lakes like Bay Lake.
This likely spells the end of the beaches at Bay Lake and possibly all small craft use. The beaches offered little benefit especially considering the terrible price now paid.
This likely spells the end of the beaches at Bay Lake and possibly all small craft use. The beaches offered little benefit especially considering the terrible price now paid.
9
If you're a lifeguard, it's expected that you are on duty to help people who need it while they are swimming. If swimming is not allowed in this lake, why are there lifeguards? There should be uniformed guards walking the shores making sure no one goes near the water at all. Guards in boats in the lake itself wouldn't hurt either.
4
The lifeguard was on duty at the swimming pool, not in the lagoon where swimming was no allowed.
6
Read the article, the lifeguard was from a nearby pool.
And you can never have enough guards to keep humans safe from themselves. If you don't follow rules and watch your kids, there are consequences.
And you can never have enough guards to keep humans safe from themselves. If you don't follow rules and watch your kids, there are consequences.
1
I didn't know there were lifeguards but I imagine if there were they are there because Disney would rather people who are disobeying the rules not drown either. Think about it. If you had little kids playing in your backyard where there is a pool, isn't it a good idea to watch even if they aren't allowed in? I would and I bet you would too.
Within the ;ast few weeks (before this tragedy occurred), I saw two separate news articles about alligators in Florida.
One video showed an enormous - and I do mean enormous - alligator strolling around the (?)th hole of a golf course, en route to wherever. It just meandered along its merry way. The news reports said there was no one at the golf course available "to do anything about it." So off it went to.......
The other news report showed a video of a woman who had to get an alligator out of her car which was parked in the driveway. When she was getting into her car she noticed the 'gator on the seats and pulled it out herself (it was fairly young). She called the sheriffs, I believe, who taped its nose and, apparently, took it away to......
Alligators are everywhere in Florida. So that is, naturally, a "perfect" place for Disney to build a them park right up to the very waters they typically inhabit.
And then we all feign surprise when nature meets man.
One video showed an enormous - and I do mean enormous - alligator strolling around the (?)th hole of a golf course, en route to wherever. It just meandered along its merry way. The news reports said there was no one at the golf course available "to do anything about it." So off it went to.......
The other news report showed a video of a woman who had to get an alligator out of her car which was parked in the driveway. When she was getting into her car she noticed the 'gator on the seats and pulled it out herself (it was fairly young). She called the sheriffs, I believe, who taped its nose and, apparently, took it away to......
Alligators are everywhere in Florida. So that is, naturally, a "perfect" place for Disney to build a them park right up to the very waters they typically inhabit.
And then we all feign surprise when nature meets man.
12
What many comments here are failing to recognise is that this incident occurred after dark when alligators are hunting the shallow waters. The risk of wading in the daytime versus at night is very, very different. And the dim chance of a successful rescue in the dark, in murky water, only increases the risk of tragedy.
22
I'm not totally ignorant about animal behavior; or the presence of alligators in Florida, but I would not have realized that alligators prefer to hunt in the shallows at night. (I'm more familiar with wolf hunting or coyote habits, though far from expert) I can understand why the parents might have thought it safe to allow the child to wade in up to his ankles while they watched. I feel terrible for their loss, and what they must have suffered, watching their child be taken in that way.
2
Christ, that poor child and family. I can't even fathom how awful that must have been. RIP cute, sweet little boy, and I hope the family finds peace.
19
Can both parties bear responsibility? In this case I think so, and I'm sorry to say it under such tragic and sad circumstances. I can only imagine the horror the family is experiencing and for a long time to come.
I don't know what the signs actually say, but if there are dangerous beasties in the water, the warning not to swim needs to be very emphatic.
Do adults caring for small children need to recognize the vastness of their responsibility to be ever-vigilant -including teaching their children to heed warning signs rather than be dismissive of them? You bet. If the sign says no swimming - there's a reason you don't go in the water.
Those of us who grew up in southern coastal areas are well aware of the scary things in the water. We'd routinely water ski in rivers with gators and water moccasins. We understood the risks, accepted them, and endeavored to respect the power, danger and beauty of the environment we shared with the other creatures and be as vigilant and careful as possible.
Now, when I travel to environments that are unfamiliar to me, I try to inform myself of not just the amazing sights I hope to see, but also the risks I need to avoid. This doesn't ruin the romance of travel, it empowers me to explore more freely.
It seems people want believe a little too strongly in a Disney Never-Never Land where they are free of care (responsibility) and potential harm. Only in the imagination does this place exist.
I don't know what the signs actually say, but if there are dangerous beasties in the water, the warning not to swim needs to be very emphatic.
Do adults caring for small children need to recognize the vastness of their responsibility to be ever-vigilant -including teaching their children to heed warning signs rather than be dismissive of them? You bet. If the sign says no swimming - there's a reason you don't go in the water.
Those of us who grew up in southern coastal areas are well aware of the scary things in the water. We'd routinely water ski in rivers with gators and water moccasins. We understood the risks, accepted them, and endeavored to respect the power, danger and beauty of the environment we shared with the other creatures and be as vigilant and careful as possible.
Now, when I travel to environments that are unfamiliar to me, I try to inform myself of not just the amazing sights I hope to see, but also the risks I need to avoid. This doesn't ruin the romance of travel, it empowers me to explore more freely.
It seems people want believe a little too strongly in a Disney Never-Never Land where they are free of care (responsibility) and potential harm. Only in the imagination does this place exist.
19
Good God, they are from Nebraska!
How would they know about alligators in a Disney Lake????
He wasn't swimming either.
Get your facts straight.
How would they know about alligators in a Disney Lake????
He wasn't swimming either.
Get your facts straight.
15
Enjoying unfettered nature at your own risk is one thing. Going to Disney where every step is supposed to be geared to the safety and fun of children is another.
11
Well written, well balanced position. I completely agree.
2
It's amazing, the "blame the victime" tone of many comments. The Texas Parks and Wildlife Department states that alligators can move up to 35 mph for short periods - so a child or an adult walking near a body of water (they wouldn't have to be swimming or wading in it) could conceivably be attacked. A friend who owns property in Florida has mentioned the danger of alligators, that people have lost pets to them - and his place is not beside a river or lake. A "no swimming" sign might be taken to mean that the water is full of poisonous algae - a common problem in this era of climate change - not that there was danger from alligators. In a resort, people would normally expect to enjoy themselves in safety.
35
The NYT should really shut down this comment section. Whatever the parents did or did not do doesn't change the fact that they tragically lost their two year old child. Enough said.
65
Agree. Who cares what others think, their son is gone.
7
Agree completely. Never should have been opened in the first place.
2
NYT is a business. It wouldn't serve their interests if they shut this down.
3
More could have been done. A fence separating the water from the sand should have been in place if it was known that there were alligators in the waters of the resort. Maybe now one will be erected & a tragedy like this will NEVER happen again. Signs are NOT enough! Prayers for Lane & his family. <3 RIP sweet angel baby.
7
People know sharks live in the ocean yet still swim in it. It's a risk you take entering an animals territory.
2
Seems to be a huge oversight for Disney not to post warnings of possible 'alligator infested waters".
13
In Florida all non-salty water is alligator infested. Disney can no more be responsible for this than for mosquitoes.
2
Yeah, because who knew alligators live in Florida? Should they also warn about mosquitoes and spiders?
4
The lack of signs is not an oversight at all and is 100% intentional. There is no way Disney wants to advertise to visitors that its resort properties or parks are dangerous. Disney has its own staff that tries to handle these things quietly and internally. The objective is to not scare the guests.
* Not that I agree with Disney's methods since five gators were quickly captured which shows a lack of attention paid to alligators and the inherent danger of not informing visitors or having the beach area fenced.
* Not that I agree with Disney's methods since five gators were quickly captured which shows a lack of attention paid to alligators and the inherent danger of not informing visitors or having the beach area fenced.
5
Clearly there are no winners here, only losers.
Yes, Disney had an obligation to mention alligators were present.
The parents of a two year old should keep their babies close.
Yes, Disney had an obligation to mention alligators were present.
The parents of a two year old should keep their babies close.
11
like placing a bird feeder where feral cats roam. Who would have anticipated an alligator so close to the beach...
11
People can't be protected from sharks or alligators once they enter the water.
19
What a horrible incident.
Not the kind of press Disney was expecting the same week they opened a 5.5 billion dollar park in China.
Not the kind of press Disney was expecting the same week they opened a 5.5 billion dollar park in China.
1
What deadly critters does Communist Red China's Disneypark offer ?
1
As a mother, I can't even begin to imagine what the Graves family must be feeling. My heart just breaks for them.
33
Two points: 1. Why was this child in ankle deep water unsupervised by his parents? The child could have fallen over and drowned without making a sound as his parents watched the movie 2. How could Disney not have anticipated the danger of alligators to out-of-state and foreign visitors who would have had no inkling of any kind of threat from Florida wildlife in an area designed to amuse and house families with young children?
21
The child's father was right next to him - so he was supervised.
9
And a lawyer is already in the howling hunt.
12
Yes, finally a carnivore of equivalent malevolence comes to the rescue.
4
A lawyer will ensure that Disney takes steps to prevent this from occurring again on their properties.
1
Disney CLAIMS to have a program to actively remove alligators. However, the number of gators removed from this small, manmade body of water indicates Disney has clearly failed to monitor for these creatures.
Furthermore, constructing a picturesque sandy beach along its shore without restricting access might be the best example of attractive nuisance one could imagine. If, as courts have ruled, homeowners have a responsibility to fence in their pools to secure them from trespassing youth who may then drown certainly Disney has the responsibility to do more than post a "no swimming" sign on a beach they constructed next to a water feature filled with dangerous predators.
Disney draws its customers from across the globe, and so has a greater responsibility to protect its guests from perils that many of us in Florida well understand. This was a toddler, watched by his parents, splashing in a couple of inches of water on a sandy beach. In an upscale resort where every blade of grass has been planned and groomed.
Furthermore, constructing a picturesque sandy beach along its shore without restricting access might be the best example of attractive nuisance one could imagine. If, as courts have ruled, homeowners have a responsibility to fence in their pools to secure them from trespassing youth who may then drown certainly Disney has the responsibility to do more than post a "no swimming" sign on a beach they constructed next to a water feature filled with dangerous predators.
Disney draws its customers from across the globe, and so has a greater responsibility to protect its guests from perils that many of us in Florida well understand. This was a toddler, watched by his parents, splashing in a couple of inches of water on a sandy beach. In an upscale resort where every blade of grass has been planned and groomed.
36
Dear Walt Disney Co: Two-year olds can't read.
18
But his parents can.
12
2 year olds may not be able to read, but their adult parents can read.
5
that's why they have p-a-r-e-n-t-s
4
An Absolutely NEEDLESS tragedy! Even IF the No Swimming sign mentioned danger of alligators, what to folks from Nebraska know about alligators?! You don't have to even be IN the water, just close to waters edge to risk being a gator's lunch. But factually, if many countries successfully use cyclone metal fencing to keep out sharks, why doesn't Disney do the same to keep out man eating alligators in such a Family Resort. A real TRAGEDY.
10
Alligators can climb fences unlike sharks
4
Florida has numerous threats to life and limb that visitors need to be aware of, for example: Massive man eating snakes in the Everglades, salt water crocodiles, alligators everywhere, crazed gun nuts with quick and easy access to guns, rightwing republican stand-your-ground nutballs eager to be the next Richard Jewel, hurricanes, the flood of South American drug cartel products readily available, etc. etc. You're Not In Nebraska Anymore !
6
As the father of a two-year-old son, I cannot imagine the pain these parents are suffering through right now. There couldn't be anything worse.
What happened is an unspeakable tragedy, and anyone who blames the parents is a fool. Hindsight is always 20/20. I'm sure millions of parents have let their small children splash in that water without incident. Don't add insult to injury by claiming they were negligent.
In the end, this is not the alligator's fault either - it's Disney's. People from all over the world are visiting their parks. People who aren't familiar with the dangers of wild alligators. It's Disney's responsibility to make people aware of the danger. A "No Swimming" sign is not the same as "DANGER: WILD ALLIGATORS LIVE HERE".
Wake up.
What happened is an unspeakable tragedy, and anyone who blames the parents is a fool. Hindsight is always 20/20. I'm sure millions of parents have let their small children splash in that water without incident. Don't add insult to injury by claiming they were negligent.
In the end, this is not the alligator's fault either - it's Disney's. People from all over the world are visiting their parks. People who aren't familiar with the dangers of wild alligators. It's Disney's responsibility to make people aware of the danger. A "No Swimming" sign is not the same as "DANGER: WILD ALLIGATORS LIVE HERE".
Wake up.
43
I just love the comments from all the Floridians, typical ethnocentrists, must you prove every stereotype about your state? Thinking that EVERYONE OF COURSE knows about Florida and its alligators and the parents must be negligent.
Visitors from out of state need warnings, just as you would, Floridian, if you visited an unfamiliar place with hazards.
The resorts and wealthy enclaves may try to mask the "Deliverance" by the sea that is Florida. No matter. The waters are rising and will swallow your towns anyway, leaving the alligators their rightful place I suppose.
Visitors from out of state need warnings, just as you would, Floridian, if you visited an unfamiliar place with hazards.
The resorts and wealthy enclaves may try to mask the "Deliverance" by the sea that is Florida. No matter. The waters are rising and will swallow your towns anyway, leaving the alligators their rightful place I suppose.
21
I'm from NY and I know about gators in Florida. It's not rocket science.
6
Oh hush with your Deliverance remark. A lot of us here are more sophisticated than you are. As for the ocean swallowing the towns of Florida, how much longer before your state is swallowed into the yaws of the earth during a major earthquake.
3
My family and I stayed at the Grand Floridian years ago. Frankly, it would never have occurred to me that allowing our children to walk by the water's edge while we were there with them was potentially fatal. When you stay at a Disney resort, everything is so well planned and micromanaged, that it makes you feel like you are in a safer place than most. As a non-Floridian, "no swimming" doesn't translate to "dangerous man-eating alligators nearby". Disney should have thought harder about preventing a foreseeable tragedy such as this.
10
To those of you so sure that the parents should have known, and "everyone knows that" as one writer put it. To you I say: Nope. Didn't know that. Would not have crossed my mind AT ALL if I were at an artificial lake, complete with sand, chairs, swing sets, and movie screenings, all at a Disney theme park. You knew it because you live there. How little COMMON DECENCY does it take to say, on that "no swimming" sign, "Hey, we don't want you to go in the water (even a little bit) because of alligators." Alligators.
43
I feel terrible for this little boy and his parents. In addition to losing their son, they have been horribly traumatized by seeing him dragged under the water by a wild animal.
I have only been to FL once and realize alligators are all over the Everglades and in the south. I would not have thought alligators were present in a man-made theme park lagoon near Orlando.
Instead of "No swimming" the sign should have said "Danger. Keep out of water, alligators may be present."
I have only been to FL once and realize alligators are all over the Everglades and in the south. I would not have thought alligators were present in a man-made theme park lagoon near Orlando.
Instead of "No swimming" the sign should have said "Danger. Keep out of water, alligators may be present."
28
Better: DANGER: Alligators inhabit this water. Do not stand close to the water. Obviously, when your theme park invites tourists from all over the U.S. and the world, you need to warn them about the one really dangerous predator which infests your waters. Is Disney afraid that the mention of alligators might deter families from visiting the Florida Disney? I think the lack of the appropriate warnings, or barriers between tourists and alligators, was a business decision. Alligators might be bad for family business? A family has now lost their two year old child to an alligator in a Disney World environment. Wrap your mind around that.
5
When you go someplace, you should be aware of your surroundings, including dangers presented by nature. That can be gators in Florida, and water moccasins in some places. In Sacramento, along the bike trail there are signs warning about mountain lions. Where ever you go, be aware of what can go wrong and stay safer.
I hope Disney didn't avoid an alligator warning because it might have made them more legally responsible for the risk.
I hope Disney didn't avoid an alligator warning because it might have made them more legally responsible for the risk.
7
If I go to a resort and it has a nice man made lake and a sand beach leading into the lake, I have a right to assume that it is safe to go into the water. I would assume that no resort owner in its right mind would allow any dangerous creatures to inhabit the water. I know about alligators but If I went to that theme park, I would assume that the inviting lake, that was no fenced off was safe. This accident is solely the fault of Disney's appalling lack of concern for children's safety.
4
Obviously that is why they did not warn about their resident alligators. They want family tourist business; they don't want families to imagine being attacked by alligators. Are they liable? You bet. There are some really good personal injury lawyers out there, and they will be contacting this family. When the family is ready to deal with it, they will hire one of these really good lawyers and sue Disney for a lot of money. Money won't replace their two year old, but it might ensure that Florida Disney thinks about the dangers its resident alligators pose to visitors.
Before I visited Disney World the first time, in planning the trip, I read cover-to-cover the "Unofficial Guide to Disney World". It had every sort of warning about hydrating yourself because of the heat, wearing sunscreen, lightning during afternoon downpours, and even what time was best to visit each attraction to avoid long lines. I NEVER saw one word that warned of not approaching the water's edge in, not only the lagoon where this happened, but at Fort Wilderness resort, where the 1986 attack happened on the third-grader. It was just never even mentioned, and even in my own mind, a Floridian from north-west Florida where I have never even seen a gator in the wild, I would never have had alligators on my radar if we had attended outdoor movie night and my toddler had walked along the edge of the water like theirs did.
3
So I guess now the next step is to kill the gator, also known as "kill the gorilla."
9
Gators are killed by the hundreds in Florida. Who says human lives are more valuable?
1
I am amazed at the sociopathy displayed by commenters here. Many are upset that alligators were killed, many blame parents who are not at fault. This is not a wild life safari. They are at a premium prices family resort. There are no alligator warnings and the child was not swimming. That the same folks support gun control and gender confusion makes me extremely suspicious of the motives of these human haters.
17
As a human hater, I will tell you that I think animals have as much of a right to live as humans. I think an alligator life is as valuable as a human life. We take their land, put them in cages, eat them, make bags from them and that is okay. But when one of them gets one of us, it's a national disaster.
Obviously
Obviously
4
Wow. Did you mean to say, "thanks Obama"? What does any of this have to do with one's political leanings or lack thereof?
3
Very sad despite N-O-S-W-I-M-M-I-N-G still means no swimming. The FLA lawyers are like the alligators, somehow personal responsibility is out the window, kind o like blaming a playground when the kid falls off the swing. so l very tragic and sad, I grieve for the family in this time of tragedy
9
From the picture of the lake, Disney created an area that looks like a swimming beach and them put a little sign up that said "no swimming." Not a BIG sign that read "DANGER ALLIGATORS PRESENT STAY OUT OF THE WATER." Besides there are a lot of stories about Florida alligators rushing out of the water to attack and carry away small animals. This child could have been attacked on shore.
4
Totally different circumstances but seeing Lane's photo reminds when I saw the photos of Alex and Michael after the public finally accepted Susan Smith killed them.
Just the fact they were so young and died under horrible circumstances.
Man
Just the fact they were so young and died under horrible circumstances.
Man
2
Yeah I want to smile when I see his cute little grin and then I remember why his picture is in the paper.
This, yet another tragedy, where all commenters can do is play the blame game. You say it's Disney's fault for not putting more signs up. Or for creating a beach with sand. Too many want to assign culpability to a tragedy. Create laws or whatever makes them feel better.
This tragedy is a first - and Disney World has been open for more than 45 years. Alligators are present throughout Florida. Even if you don't know this without a sign folks - pray, what do you think when you swim in the ocean. It has sharks and jelly fish. Yes, sometimes they close beaches because of those, but usually only after there has been an issue.
Nature is out there, beware. And grieve for the family's loss, but let's not turn the world upside down.
This tragedy is a first - and Disney World has been open for more than 45 years. Alligators are present throughout Florida. Even if you don't know this without a sign folks - pray, what do you think when you swim in the ocean. It has sharks and jelly fish. Yes, sometimes they close beaches because of those, but usually only after there has been an issue.
Nature is out there, beware. And grieve for the family's loss, but let's not turn the world upside down.
16
Putting up signs that inform people that there may be alligators in the water and a few facts about how alligators have--if rarely--come into the shallows and even up on the beach to snatch a small person--is not "turning the world upside down." Disney is at fault.
3
This is not nature; this is a fake lagoon created by Disney, infested with migrating alligators. Nothing natural about having this in a family theme park.
5
The picture of the lagoon that accompanies this story attests to Disney's full culpability. It builds a man-made lake, adds a broad swath of beautiful fine-grained sand and beach chairs, then counters the temptation it created with a few no swimming" signs. Completely absurd.
24
I lived in Florida for several years. Every Floridian knows not to let his dog do what this toddler was doing. Unless you want to lose your dog. Take a look at the numerous film clips out there of alligators and crocs seizing prey. They are masters of laying low in the water, more or less invisibly, and then suddenly rocketing out of the water with terrifying velocity to grab prey watering at the water's edge -- very much like what this wading toddler is described as doing. Sometimes their leaps carry them clear onto land where, on the land, they wrestle their prey back into the water to drown it. When wild beasts with these capabilities are known to be in the water, Disney's "No Swimming" signs are tragically inadequate. There should be fencing all along the shore, set in the water, with "Danger. Alligators" signs posted on the shore side of the fence. But, of course, that would be jarring to the "wonderland" atmosphere Disney banks on. My heart goes out to the parents. Can you imagine the nightmares they are condemned to suffer, and the guilt of the father who lost the battle with the gator?
31
But do you Floridians all assume that a man made lake with a beach in a resort is infested with alligators?
2
Floridians, yes. Nebraskans, not so much. And I, having been raised in northwest Florida until age 21, never thought of alligators in Disney World, where every inch is planned, monitored, filtered, and micromanaged. "No swimming" is not the same as "Stay away from the edge of the water. Dangerous wildlife may be present"
3
"But do you Floridians all assume that a man made lake with a beach in a resort is infested with alligators?"
In Florida you even have to check your home swimming pool, so, yes, ANY Florida body of water can have alligators. Alligators don't care who or what produced the hole that holds the water and they walk between bodies of water.
In Florida you even have to check your home swimming pool, so, yes, ANY Florida body of water can have alligators. Alligators don't care who or what produced the hole that holds the water and they walk between bodies of water.
1
Not being from Florida, I wouldn't know alligator attacks were so common. I feel for this family very much. I also can't help but see this stealth attack as what is also happening to the American worker, and Disney, as reported in the Times, is a chief offender.
4
They manage to keep alligators out of the swimming areas at Wakulla springs. Maybe Disney could employ their techniques along with warning signs. A solution will be found, but it shouldn't have had to come at the expense of this beautiful child.
6
Sometimes horrible things happen and it is hard to say that somebody actually did something wrong. As an attorney, I think Disney was negligent for not placing alligator warning signs on the beach, and for not closing the beaches at night, when alligators are most active. But it is a close call. As other commenters have said, there was never a similar incident in 30 years at the park. People, including small children, swim in lakes and canals in Florida all the time and the chances of this are astronomical. Like I said, it is easy to say Disney is liable for negligence, but this shows how, from a lawyers view, being negligent does not equal being bad. Just a terrible, terrible accident.
11
As a Lawyer, I believe that legally, Disney is at fault. Just because in 30 years an alligator hasn't attacked someone is just pure luck. Don't you remember the law school idea of "Attractive Nuisance?"
2
I, too, am an attorney, but I don't view it as such a close call. The lake was an attractive nuisance. Disney knew that there were quite a few alligators in it -- look at the number that were taken from the lake and euthanized in the attempt to locate the boy. Corporations routinely do cost/benefit and risk analyses in deciding how to allocate resources. I'm sure Disney has insurance to cover what they viewed as an unlikely -- but not beyond the realm of possibility -- event. My guess is that they did not want to convey in any way that there could be dangers to families in these surroundings -- it might cut into business.
4
Correction: In 30 years, an alligator hasn't killed anyone. An alligator attacked a 9-year old boy in 1986 who was crouched by the water, watching the ducks, at Fort Wilderness resort. Of course, there was no internet back then, so no one ever knew about it.
What part of 'No Swimming" do people FAIL to understand?
21
Looking at the photo of the nice pretty sand & inviting seats, "No swimming" implies there are no lifeguard present, so there's "No Swimming" in most people's minds, as I would. It's a resort. No swimming, ok, means no swimming. But there's no warning to not enter the water at all or even walk close to close to the edge. It's not cordoned off as any possible danger zone. As a body of water, just like swimming pools, it should be considered the same as an "Attractive Nuisance" with the same laws, especially since there's a sizeable beach and beach furniture.
The kid was splashing around in the shallows. He wasn't swimming by any definition. As a non-local, there is no way would I have had a clue that the pretty beach and its waters contained dangerous animals. Drowning would be the only consideration I would have--- not alligators! I completely understand the Nebraska family's perspective, along with what I expect the majority of Disney resort guests.
The kid was splashing around in the shallows. He wasn't swimming by any definition. As a non-local, there is no way would I have had a clue that the pretty beach and its waters contained dangerous animals. Drowning would be the only consideration I would have--- not alligators! I completely understand the Nebraska family's perspective, along with what I expect the majority of Disney resort guests.
10
That child was NOT SWIMMING!
6
What part of 'he wasn't swimming, he was 2 years old splashing at the edge of the water' do you FAIL to understand?
4
Other media are reporting that in 1986 an 8-year-old boy was attacked at Disney campground and saved by his brother and sister, ages 10 and 12. If true, that seems to contradict the sheriff's statement reported in your story:
Sheriff Demings noted that Disney had been in business in the area for 45 years and had never had a similar incident, and that no “nuisance alligators” had been reported in the area recently.
Sheriff Demings noted that Disney had been in business in the area for 45 years and had never had a similar incident, and that no “nuisance alligators” had been reported in the area recently.
3
"Nuisance alligators" - what an oxymoron! Any alligator poses a threat, they all have teeth, right?
4
The five alligators that were caught and euthanized did not "die for nothing" even though no human remains were found. An alligator that has once successfully preyed on humans is even more dangerous and potentially aggressive, and needs to be removed.
9
It said, "no swimming," which makes every adult in the party culpable.
The lede blatantly ignores the facts -- doing what any little boy would do, really? Any child would swim in an area posted for no swimming?
The parents played the odds and they lost
The lede blatantly ignores the facts -- doing what any little boy would do, really? Any child would swim in an area posted for no swimming?
The parents played the odds and they lost
17
A truly horrible thing to write, blaming the parents.
If Disney places a water facility that is apparently connected to open water canals AND knows that alligators travel that way, to leave the water area unprotected, after inviting families and children to the area, is to ask for this type of terrible tragedy.
They took 4 or 5 alligators out of the water facility before finding the boy. It is beyond unimaginable that Disney didnt know, or should have known, about alligators in it's water. What parent will ever again feel safe around water attractions in Disney????
If Disney places a water facility that is apparently connected to open water canals AND knows that alligators travel that way, to leave the water area unprotected, after inviting families and children to the area, is to ask for this type of terrible tragedy.
They took 4 or 5 alligators out of the water facility before finding the boy. It is beyond unimaginable that Disney didnt know, or should have known, about alligators in it's water. What parent will ever again feel safe around water attractions in Disney????
7
Most 2 year olds don't swim anyway. wading into the water at the edge of a lake is not swimming.
The sign should probably have said, "Caution: Alligators", but either way, blaming the parents is cruel and unreasonable
The sign should probably have said, "Caution: Alligators", but either way, blaming the parents is cruel and unreasonable
13
Of all people, parents should be held accountable for their actions.
So weary of the "they've suffered enough" excuse applied to (especially affluent white parents) situations like this, to hot car deaths and other acts of extreme negligence. If a babysitter had let the kid be snatched by a gator or die in a hot car, she'd be in jail, not given a pass on the basis of "suffered enough."
So weary of the "they've suffered enough" excuse applied to (especially affluent white parents) situations like this, to hot car deaths and other acts of extreme negligence. If a babysitter had let the kid be snatched by a gator or die in a hot car, she'd be in jail, not given a pass on the basis of "suffered enough."
1
Will this family be harassed like the mother whose child fell into the gorilla pit?
15
Did you see the comment above this one?
1
Read the comments. Telling someone to watch their child and not be irresponsible and negligent is not harassment, especially when a child is sadly injured or worse.
11
Boot, it may not be harassment, but it is piling on and kicking people when they're down. And it's pretty disgusting actually.
1
If the picture accompanying this article is accurate, why would a resort place beach chairs and lounge chairs on a beach where swimming is not allowed?
15
Because people like to read, sunbathe, relax, think, contemplate the clouds, do crossword puzzles, etc., in an attractive setting?
8
The outpouring of grief for the parents of Lane Grave, the Nebraska two-year old who was taken by an alligator at magical Disney's Grand Floridian Resort on Lake Buena Vista, is little consolation for such a catastrophic loss. It was fate and a cruel act of nature that acted, and assigning blame for "an act of nature" - for alligators are facts of nature here in Florida - is futile. Disney, which has today opened another money mountain 5.5 billion Dollar Shanghai Disney Resort in China, will put new signs on the pretty man-made lake venues in Orlando - "ALLIGATORS LIVE HERE:No swimming allowed". Meanwhile, a year ago, native Chinese alligators were released into the Huangpu River to eat the dead pigs. One wonders if any of those alligators are still alive because the waters of Pudong on the Huangpu River east of Shanghai, is where the new Disney Resort of Shanghai is located.
4
I think this is a case where, had the father been armed with a handgun, the boy's life could have been saved.
3
Thank you Mr. Trump for weighing in. This is the one occasion where you might be right....but then if all were armed, people would be shooting at each other, probably killing the boy in the process.
Trump, sometimes best to just shut up.
Trump, sometimes best to just shut up.
5
Or "dad" might have been a really bad shot (which so many gun owners probably are) and shot his own child.
Gee, there's a good idea: let's all go swimming with our handguns. It's a new low, even for gun lovers.
Gee, there's a good idea: let's all go swimming with our handguns. It's a new low, even for gun lovers.
12
There have been thousands of accidental deaths caused by gun possession around kids. But that one alligator attack that may or may not have been prevented by a guy firing into dark murky waters where his son was, in an alligator's mouth, probably balances the needs for guns.
1
Disney should not wait to be sued. They should offer this family at least a couple of million dollars in compensation. Wading is not swimming, but I can guess why they didn't make the danger of alligators known-- that would be bad for business, which for Disney is fantasy and make-believe, where mice talk and help sew dresses. Warning that there are real-life alligators about just isn't the Disneyfied world of nature they sell, is it? They need to fall all over themselves in trying to make amends to this family, and they need to own up to the fact that they can't ignore real-life nature in peddling fantasy.
17
Multiple that by 5 and you are in the right ballpark. They will pay whatever it takes to make this go away quietly and then take aggressive steps to ensure it never happens again. Awful tragedy.
2
Who would have a beach with umbrellas and chairs and not expect people to get into the water, no matter what the signs state?
How many Disney visitors are literate in English?
How many Disney visitors are literate in English?
13
When I moved to Florida from the north I had two little dogs. It took some time and warnings from residents when walking my dogs beside water, fresh or brackish, before I really understood that they could be snatched by alligators. While walking them one time, some reeds shook and I realized what it was and got them out of there. There are serious warning signs in some places (Danger--Alligator Infested Waters), but in most, you're on your own. Losing a dog would be bad enough, but a child? I cannot imagine.
15
My heart goes out to the family.
In addition to the lack of adequate signage, why aren't armed (with tranquilizers) life guards on hand? Why is the beach accessible at all?
Don't forget how cheap Disney is. I seem to have read recently about their desperate and dastardly attempts to save money by firing Americans and replacing them with imported Indians, trained by the outgoing Americans, with minimal severage.
If we were all to boycott Disney and rebuild the tattered remains of our culture without its terrifying homogenizing dominance, that wouldn't be so bad. But that's my personal take.
In addition to the lack of adequate signage, why aren't armed (with tranquilizers) life guards on hand? Why is the beach accessible at all?
Don't forget how cheap Disney is. I seem to have read recently about their desperate and dastardly attempts to save money by firing Americans and replacing them with imported Indians, trained by the outgoing Americans, with minimal severage.
If we were all to boycott Disney and rebuild the tattered remains of our culture without its terrifying homogenizing dominance, that wouldn't be so bad. But that's my personal take.
10
Are you suggesting they use the tranquilizer guns on families who disobey posted rules? Or on wildlife who are merely going about their normal business?
7
Maybe because tranquilizers are only instantaneous in movies and TV.
1
Right. It wouldn't have changed the outcome. The animal would likely have submerged immediately and then dropped the kid underneath the water, just like it did anyway.
1
This is an absolutely tragic story. I would like to offer an explanation to those who are placing blame on the parents. Northerners do not anticipate seeing alligators in a soothing place like Disney's lagoon. Yes, of course, we know that FL has alligators, (and it's share of burglars, thugs, and every other kind of villain), but it's not anticipated to run into them at every water's edge.
I can tell you from personal experience of snowbirding in TX for the last 4 years that we were very unaware at how prevalent alligators are in the coastal bend area of fresh/brackish waters. We didn't anticipate to see so many. It took us a while to learn what to do and what not to do, where to go, and where not to. We spoke with rangers, and others who were more experienced. Now, that we're more seasoned, we're more confident about our walks and trips to refuges etc in regard to expectations with the wildlife.
My suggestion to Disney besides a "no swimming" sign or putting up a distracting, ugly fence (which the gators will probably get around anyway) is to have a wildlife educator(s) handing out literature at check-in, hosting meet and greet sessions focusing on wildlife, roaming the beaches especially where there are large groups of people reminding them of safety. Kids are attracted to water and a "no swimming" sign does not mean "no wading, or sitting/standing close to the water".
I am so sorry for those parents. I just don't even want to imagine what they're going through.
I can tell you from personal experience of snowbirding in TX for the last 4 years that we were very unaware at how prevalent alligators are in the coastal bend area of fresh/brackish waters. We didn't anticipate to see so many. It took us a while to learn what to do and what not to do, where to go, and where not to. We spoke with rangers, and others who were more experienced. Now, that we're more seasoned, we're more confident about our walks and trips to refuges etc in regard to expectations with the wildlife.
My suggestion to Disney besides a "no swimming" sign or putting up a distracting, ugly fence (which the gators will probably get around anyway) is to have a wildlife educator(s) handing out literature at check-in, hosting meet and greet sessions focusing on wildlife, roaming the beaches especially where there are large groups of people reminding them of safety. Kids are attracted to water and a "no swimming" sign does not mean "no wading, or sitting/standing close to the water".
I am so sorry for those parents. I just don't even want to imagine what they're going through.
33
Thank you. Finally a voice of reason with the most logical solution, which should have been done from the get-go.
2
It's possible for children to drown in 6 inches of water, so, the danger from alligators aside, I don't get why the parents allowed him to be splashing around in the lagoon by himself while they were "nearby."
11
His parents were right there. If he was in danger of drowning, a parent would have saved him. But, being from Nebraska, they didn't realize the danger of giant carnivorous reptiles.
5
The dad was "nearby" enough to be able to battle with the alligator.
4
My prayers are with the family.
I feel for your loss.
Disney has a huge problem and should eliminate the lawn chairs and put up proper signage.
But don't worry...Iger will get his bonus......and earning per share will be rock solid as he will just outsource more white collar jobs to pay for the negligence lawsuit that is surely to come.
I feel for your loss.
Disney has a huge problem and should eliminate the lawn chairs and put up proper signage.
But don't worry...Iger will get his bonus......and earning per share will be rock solid as he will just outsource more white collar jobs to pay for the negligence lawsuit that is surely to come.
8
In Yellowstone National Park, after a child died falling into a hot pool, signs were put up around the hot pool areas warning of the nature of the danger. After this incident certainly "warning - no swimming - alligators in the water" signs should go up. People from Nebraska were probably not even thinking about such a thing.
6
If they ignored the "Swimming is not permitted" sign, I doubt they would have paid attention to "Alligators in the water," either.
9
Such a horrible tragedy for this family, my heart goes out to them. It's hard to believe that Disney doesn't have signs posted regarding alligators or any literature given to visitors about their presence in the water. I'm sure when one enters the park they are giving literature regarding "do's and don'ts" for visitors. If there isn't any, why not? It only seems commonsense. Most parents visiting the the best known family attraction in the world are probably not thinking about their children being attacked by an alligator.
8
Puts the whole gorilla episode in Cinncinnati in a new light...doesn't it?
5
If this toddler ad been splashing in the ocean and attacked by a shark, who would you blame? Sharks live in the ocean and in the southeast (not just Florida) alligators live in the lakes.
12
The ocean is not a man-made pond with a beach and beach chairs in a theme park.
7
The huge difference is that Disney created this lagoon and, so far as we know, did nothing to keep alligators out, knowing that alligators are attracted to this type of water, while at the same time inviting families in, creating a beach area knowing that children will frolic. I am a big believer in personal responsibility but Disney created this disaster waiting to happen. It, and all FL resorts that thrive on creating this type of illusion, and the illusion of absolute safety, should do the right thing.
5
When you look at this tragedy in hindsight, you could see that the danger of alligator attacks in Florida has increased considerably in the last month. When I accessed the article yesterday announcing the disappearance of the child, at least 3 recent articles on alligator attacks (4 women died last month) popped up, along with other distressing news that a new breed from South Africa was found that people brought over as 'pets' or which came from a zoo. The upshot was that alligator attacks were on the rise. All this, in light of this horrific incident, demonstrates further proof that Disney should have been extra vigilant in alerting its visitors to this danger.
7
Did it say "no paddling" too?
Did it say why?
Very hard to be beside the water, so cool and inviting, and to have to tell a 2-year old "sorry kid, The sign says NO Swimming": and then to have to tell him you don't know why. "But mom just a little paddle"...."well ok then but just stay by the edge..."
I am NOT good at obeying rules, especially "no playing; no walking on the grass; no balls allowed, no fun allowed": - these are grouches' & witches' rules - made to be broken by kids who later will discover or invent something wonderful. But to see "DANGER: Keep out of the water; there are ALLIGATORS here" , well that's a game-changer...Even I wouldn't paddle; I find it astonishing that there is no fence around this dangerous place. Is there nobody with any imagination in charge? No memory of being a kid? no sense of adventure? No foresight to see the temptation to paddle on a hot day? sigh. Such sadness. Walt must be weeping miserably in his grave.
Did it say why?
Very hard to be beside the water, so cool and inviting, and to have to tell a 2-year old "sorry kid, The sign says NO Swimming": and then to have to tell him you don't know why. "But mom just a little paddle"...."well ok then but just stay by the edge..."
I am NOT good at obeying rules, especially "no playing; no walking on the grass; no balls allowed, no fun allowed": - these are grouches' & witches' rules - made to be broken by kids who later will discover or invent something wonderful. But to see "DANGER: Keep out of the water; there are ALLIGATORS here" , well that's a game-changer...Even I wouldn't paddle; I find it astonishing that there is no fence around this dangerous place. Is there nobody with any imagination in charge? No memory of being a kid? no sense of adventure? No foresight to see the temptation to paddle on a hot day? sigh. Such sadness. Walt must be weeping miserably in his grave.
17
Wow this is awful. A lesson on the adaptability of urban wildlife though.
4
I can't imagine the horror and anguish the little boy's family must be feeling after such an traumatic experience. My heart goes out to them all.
The authorities said the little boy's body was found completely intact, so what do they hope to find when they examine the bodies of the several alligators that have been killed? How will they decide if the alligator who took the little boy is among those killed? Or are they just killing alligators so they look like they are doing something to decrease the risk to humans from alligators? Why is humankind's first response usually "KILL IT!!" (and I'm not limiting that question strictly to conflicts between animals and humans)?
The authorities said the little boy's body was found completely intact, so what do they hope to find when they examine the bodies of the several alligators that have been killed? How will they decide if the alligator who took the little boy is among those killed? Or are they just killing alligators so they look like they are doing something to decrease the risk to humans from alligators? Why is humankind's first response usually "KILL IT!!" (and I'm not limiting that question strictly to conflicts between animals and humans)?
12
The alligators were killed before the toddler's body was found. Though it's gruesome to say, the alligator's stomachs were being examined for the little boy's remains.
4
I believe they began euthanizing any alligator they were able to catch in order to find the little boy's remains; then hours later, after they already euthanized the alligators, they found his body on the bottom of the lagoon. Wouldn't you want to find your child's remains to have "closure"? That's why they did it.
6
Making others die so I'd have the dubious "closure" of having a few scraps of flesh to bury? No thanks.
1
I have visited DisneyWorld and Florida a number of times. I have never seen an alligator while visiting but am fully aware that wildlife are everywhere and can show up unexpectedly. How much warning do people need when they decide to vacation in a swamp.
12
This lagoon at Disneys most upscale hotel is hardly a swamp. It is a beach with chairs, etc. that you would never expect to be filled with alligators. Before flapping your mouth, know what you're talking about.
7
Sorry but no one expects an alligator, much less 4 or 5, in a water facility CREATED by Disney NEXT to a luxury hotel!!!!!!! I don't care if alligators are native to FL. If Disney creates a water facility, knowing that alligators might enter, it has an obligation to either keep them out or ....actually, no or. It has an obligation to do it's best to keep them out. I will wait to hear what they did but I sense it's not enough.
And there is a swimming pool with lifeguards right near the lagoon.
Why didn't they use the pool?
Why didn't they use the pool?
3
It is Disney's fault for wrecking the pristine central Florida environment with the obscenity that is the modern theme park. They wanted to make a fast buck in some cheap swamplands while decimating the water and the local flora and fauna which includes gators. They scored on the water and flora flaunt part but they were never able to eradicate the gator after they were placed on the environmental protection list. No swimming in Florida means there are gators and just because you are from Nebraska where nothing much happens doesn't exempt you from not paying attention. The kid could have just as easily been bitten by a water moccasin doing what he did. Maybe a little sign with a mean gator on it would have sufficed but I doubt it, people still would be unheeding, thinking our lakes are just like those fresh ones up north with nary a threat. Until now millions of Floridians coexist with the mighty gator with little trouble, this tragedy, preventable by both the parents and Disney, complete with full sensational coverage by the media, will set that back with the gators paying the ultimate price as the yahoos who hear about this will converge on the poor creatures like the plague. Those trappers knew the gator who caught the boy would drown him and let him cure under water for a few days under water before eating him, so why they had to grandstand and kill 5 innocent animals is over the top and wildly unnecessary ? Revenge? Take it to the courts.
13
Not to mention the repugnant cruise ships with which Disney is blighting the oceans. Their environmental destruction - from thousands of tons of cheap imported plastic claptrap sold each year to the parks to the ships - knows no bounds. All those little animals frolicking around Snow White in the cartoons would be dead as door nails at real-life Disney.
4
You don't swim in the waters in Florida. Everybody knows that. There are alligators everywhere. You swim in a pool or the ocean. In the ocean there are sharks and everybody knows that too. There are places that are cleared for swimming and they are the only places you can swim and be relatively safe. There was a women attacked earlier this year in the Wekiva River. Again. What did you expect. I have canoed there many times and seen dozens of gators. Do I get out of the boat? NO!! Education is a wonderful thing. Try it out it is wonderful despite what our Republican friends think.
16
You may know that being from Orlando. Visitors like myself might know there are alligators, but not know their ubiquitous nature or the inability to keep them out.
Where I live, the locals know never to go outside late in the day barefoot or in sandals due to copperheads. This includes pretty urban areas.If you got bit running through sprinklers at a resort near me I wouldn't tut that eeveryone knows that.
Where I live, the locals know never to go outside late in the day barefoot or in sandals due to copperheads. This includes pretty urban areas.If you got bit running through sprinklers at a resort near me I wouldn't tut that eeveryone knows that.
4
You live in Orlando, apparently. Not "everyone" knows that you don't swim in the waters in Florida. Not everyone familiarizes themselves with the dangers inherent in local wildlife when travelling to popular destination resorts in their own country.
1
When i leave this case out of the discussion, and focus only on a skewed image of tourists:
I don't agree. Too many tourists act extremely stupid when travelling. They should take responsibility and inform themselves before they travel. Especially with children!
Newsflash: "Their own country" is full of natural and manmade dangers! When someone asks: tell me 5 things about Florida. I bet that "aligator" is one of them! Instead of blaming each and everyone... tourists who make stupid mistakes should take responsibility.
Some tourists are better off staying in their own backyard.
I don't agree. Too many tourists act extremely stupid when travelling. They should take responsibility and inform themselves before they travel. Especially with children!
Newsflash: "Their own country" is full of natural and manmade dangers! When someone asks: tell me 5 things about Florida. I bet that "aligator" is one of them! Instead of blaming each and everyone... tourists who make stupid mistakes should take responsibility.
Some tourists are better off staying in their own backyard.
2
On the Disney World web page for the Grand Floridian Resort it touts that guests can "Bask on the white sand beach" and "enjoy the placid waters of Seven Seas lagoon". Did it never occur to anyone in that huge organization full of smart people that this risk was there? Incredibly negligent in my mind.
23
I would never leave a 2-year-old to splash around at the beach by himself. I don't see why any parent would. I hope they're kicking themselves hard and not just blaming the "No Swimming" sign.
6
Pretty sure any parent with a heart can recognize that they are likely doing something far more wrenching than just "kicking themselves hard." Also pretty sure they will spend the rest of their days living with the anguish of wondering "what if? What if? What if?"
Also, alligators move very, very quickly. The father had to be quite close by to the toddler if he was able to see what was happening and try to fight off the gator. This little boy wasn't simply left to "splash around at the beach by himself."
Also, alligators move very, very quickly. The father had to be quite close by to the toddler if he was able to see what was happening and try to fight off the gator. This little boy wasn't simply left to "splash around at the beach by himself."
7
He was at the waters edge doing what every 2 year old loves to do, play in the water. He wasn't by himself, so far as we know. This was a sudden brutal attack that is the fault of Disney by allowing alligators onto their premises.
3
An Alligator attorney.
God help America.
God help America.
7
I am sure the alligator's attorney will be invoking the "Stand Your Ground" defense.
1
Splashing is not swimming, esp for a 2 year old. Was a sign warning about the possible presence of alligators posted nearby? The wildlife mismanagement team gets a failing grade. Given Disney Corp's obsessive concern with its reputation and liability, this lapse into clearcut negligence is a real head scratcher. What a sickeningly unnecessary tragedy.
9
"No Swimming" signs were posted at the beach. The parents failed to keep their toddler under supervision. Why did they allow their child to violate the swimming ban?
14
The parents were right there. The child was under their supervision and unless the writer has a child who is always tethered with a leash keeping him within inches of a parental body, this letter is completely devoid of compassion and humanity.
1
If the dad was able to wrestle with the alligator, that doesn't sound like he was very far away. At what length away from your child are you no longer supervising them? 1 foot? If there had been a danger sign about alligators, I'm sure they would not have let him splash in the water (which is not swimming). Are kids swimming in puddles when they splash in them?
4
MAY THE FAMILY Of the child grabbed by the alligator find healing, consolation and peace. I hope that tourist areas will display and mention alligator warnings wherever the beasts have been known to be underwater.
7
The Miami law firm mentioned in the article is clearly trolling for business. Ambulance chasers. Despicable. That said, I don't begrudge the family from filing a lawsuit if they deem Disney negligent, but soliciting as the law firm is doing given such a tragedy shows they are bottom-feeders, too.
3
Neither Disney nor anyone else is getting rid of or fencing in all of the gators in the lakes and canals in Florida that abut homes, hotels, resorts, golf courses, strip malls, nature trails, etc.
But many people probably don't know that gators infest Florida lakes right in the middle of human developments.
So the legal principle at issue should really just be "duty to warn of known pitfalls that may be hidden or unknown to invitees" -- i.e., a warning sign -- not an absolute duty to protect all visitors from wild animals or to fence off all lakes on every property in Florida. Because such a duty is tantamount to a state policy of gator culling/removal or fencing in all waterways close to humans.
But many people probably don't know that gators infest Florida lakes right in the middle of human developments.
So the legal principle at issue should really just be "duty to warn of known pitfalls that may be hidden or unknown to invitees" -- i.e., a warning sign -- not an absolute duty to protect all visitors from wild animals or to fence off all lakes on every property in Florida. Because such a duty is tantamount to a state policy of gator culling/removal or fencing in all waterways close to humans.
5
Beautiful soul. I'm heartbroken.
My prayers are with the family.
On a different note, is it necessary or mandatory to release the photo of the toddler ? The grieving family may need some privacy at this time. I'm not familiar with the state laws, but since the reference in the photo mentions the Sheriff's office, can they withhold the picture at the request of the family (had they asked for it specifically) ?
My prayers are with the family.
On a different note, is it necessary or mandatory to release the photo of the toddler ? The grieving family may need some privacy at this time. I'm not familiar with the state laws, but since the reference in the photo mentions the Sheriff's office, can they withhold the picture at the request of the family (had they asked for it specifically) ?
3
Why is that a problem to release his photo. He's a beautiful child and seeing that allows people to see the loss. I would want my child's picture shared and remembered and grieved. It allow all of us to grieve with the family
3
When I went to Ft. Lauderdale, the locals warned us about wading in the ocean at night because that is when the sharks come in. There were no signs posted with this type of warning. This is so sad...and the people bashing the parents of this little boy are pathetic. They weren't there. They don't know what happened. Shame on all of them. Alligators are strong, smart and crafty predators. They can strike quickly. Let these parents mourn and quit the judgmental hate-mongering.
17
The reason is irrelevant--if I see a sign that says "no swimming," I don't go in the water.
15
So, who does Mr. Madigan and Ms. Hauler interview for this article? A visitor from a northern state, where, like the parents of this child, humans are at the top of the food chain. A worker at a competing park/resort, whose park is no better protected from alligators. And a lawyer, no doubt a personal injury attorney, banging the drum of self-serving interest. Where were the interviews of animal or alligator experts, who would have educated us all in alligator behavior? A tragedy for sure, but the parents were complacent in their lack of knowledge of the dangers of Florida waters. No Floridian would have made the same mistake.
15
I lived in Florida for 6 years. The house we lived in had a lake adjacent to the back yard. Starting with the real estate agent and then all neighbors explaimed to us that Alligators would be in the lake from time to time and authorities would remove them when problematic . We were also told that they could snatch small dogs so we should not let our dog go near the edge. It was axiomatic that small children should not go near the edge. Obviously , many tourists would not be aware of this rare , real risk. I also lived in Hawaii for 6 years and occasionally tourists would drown as they underestimated the strength of the currents, despite posted signs, that perhaps were not sufficient warnings.
8
What particularly caught my attention was the comment that alligators are experts at camouflage. How is anyone not from Florida or the Amazon supposed to know that and/or how pervasive they are in Florida in any waters and beaches other than the ocean? If Disney put up a warning with these facts they would lose customers as everyone loves hanging out on a beach near the water.
Is that a Disney beach chair depicted in the photo? Makes the beach look safe and inviting. Could someone be sitting there reading and suddenly be confronted by an alligator? Sounds like it. There should be no beaches in such areas if they host unsuspecting tourists.
Is that a Disney beach chair depicted in the photo? Makes the beach look safe and inviting. Could someone be sitting there reading and suddenly be confronted by an alligator? Sounds like it. There should be no beaches in such areas if they host unsuspecting tourists.
10
It was indeed, a cold, calculated corporate decision on the part of Disney, to not take all manner of precaution to protect their clientele, primarily out-of-state, young families, from the known dangers beneath the water's surface. The suits determined it would be detrimental to the bottom line. How absolutely horrible and unforgivable.
9
Everyone who spends any time in Florida, as we do in the winter, knows the dangers of alligators. Disney was incredible careless in not posting signs warning of alligators in the lake. This tragedy was totally preventable. Disney is totally to blame!
10
But you've just said "Everyone who spends any time in Florida...knows the dangers of alligators." And in 45 years, this tragedy is unprecedented. Please slow down the rush to affix blame, for Disney, the parents, or anyone.
7
It had been 45 years and no alligator attack. I don't think Disney even thought there were alligators in that water. But like the Florida Conservation Officer said, anywhere in Florida there is standing water... you might find an alligator. And this includes swimming pools, yes, swimming pools and your own garage. Yes, that happens. Alligators are sneaky and excellent predators. You might even meet an alligator in a Disney parking lot... or any parking lot... and I am not talking about a person in a costume.
4
Read the article (just preceding the last paragraph).......there were 2 fatal alligator attacks in central Florida within the past year.
2
Disney most certainly knew alligators were in the lagoon just as they know everything that affects the bottom line! As for people attacked in Florida by gators, one need go back only to May 11, 2016. In 2015 there two fatal and one non-fatal attacks.
2
I meant there were no attacks in that particular lake at Disney. I was not referring to the entire state of Florida.
First a gorilla drags a little boy, and now an alligator killed a little boy. Road inner city signs advise the people in hot states not to leave their children in the car with the car turned off as the temperature will rise and kill them (and many children have died these way). Wake up parents! Wake up or let the state pick responsible people to take care of your kids.
8
I was once canoeing with a very young relative in a river in central Florida. We ran aground in the middle of the river. Huh? She leaned over facing the water and exclaimed her joy at "all the little lizards" around the boat. As I was about to explain to her there are no "lizards" in a river, the light dawned. I carefully and urgently backed away before mama realized we'd crashed her nest. No one else in our large family flotilla managed to see, much less connect with, the alligators.
But what I had been unlucky? Would I have been at fault? The state park for not warning me more clearly? I understand Disney is not a state park, but still. Lightning strikes, and it's so tragic.
But what I had been unlucky? Would I have been at fault? The state park for not warning me more clearly? I understand Disney is not a state park, but still. Lightning strikes, and it's so tragic.
4
Totally different scenarios. Disney is a place that lulls, quite purposefully, its visitors into a sort of delirium with constant piped music, smells, and sights. This is supposed to be a happy place, bug free, trash free... Uhhh, also alligator free!!
4
I visited Disneyworld last year with family members and stayed at one of the resorts. A great many signs were very clearly posted around all the beach areas warning people not to swim, which means don't go in the water.
While this is a terrible tragedy, it seems folks are quick to point the finger at Disney. From my own recollection, the company made it pretty clear that the water wasn’t to be entered. Common sense would tell you that this is for a reason, even if you are ignorant to what that reason is.
While this is a terrible tragedy, it seems folks are quick to point the finger at Disney. From my own recollection, the company made it pretty clear that the water wasn’t to be entered. Common sense would tell you that this is for a reason, even if you are ignorant to what that reason is.
13
What happened is tragic, and attacks by alligators are rare, but anyone who has been to the swamps of the deep south knows that there can be alligators or crocodiles in ANY body of water, be it a lake or pond, creek or canal. More than a million alligators live in Florida, and they are everywhere. Once you enter these wetlands, you are in their environment. That includes any lake or pond or canal in Disney World.
11
Just a reminder: we are also prey... My thoughts to this family to bear the unbearable.
6
It is easy to assign blame everywhere. But I am of the opinion that it was a tragedy and no one is really to blame here. As another poster had stated, the child was doing what children do and the alligator was doing what alligators do. As far as Disney, even if they posted a more descriptive sign, my feeling is people will still ignore it.
7
In point of fact if they posted an "Alligators" sign, it would entice some people. It might even make it MORE dangerous for small children.
4
It is not only the lack of signage that created the risk, Disney also placed a beach and chairs for their guests, clearly encouraging and inviting them to use the space along the shore near where the attack occurred. Disney owed a duty of care to its guests to ensure a safe environment. Also, while I was not there, my understanding is that the child was not swimming, but was merely walking along the shore. That is not swimming. This area will be cordoned off to guests. They also should do more to get rid of these alligators.
1
Alligator mating season is a time when the animals are known to be especially aggressive. A "no swimming" sign does not suffice. There should be DANGER signs warning everyone to stay entirely away from the water's edge. And one has to wonder why Disney created a beach area along a body of water that is known to attract alligators.
11
We lived in Central Florida for seven horrible years. Every Floridian with a brain stays away from ponds, lakes, and rivers, and we keep our kids away from them, too. Everyone has seen at least one or more alligators. They are everywhere and you never know when one will appear. People who live near rivers or retention ponds frequently see them in their yards.
Having stayed at many of these resorts, I can attest to the fact that they are negligent about warning people of the presence of alligators. "No swimming" signs are insufficient -- resorts don't want to frighten guests by telling them why they shouldn't swim: the waters are hazardous!
Every mating season alligators go on the move and any small creature, from dogs to toddlers, become fair game. One year, a woman jogging along a path was attacked.
Having been to Disney often, I have wondered at their lack of effort to impart the exact reasons why they forbid swimming, and why they encourage children to get near those retention ponds by setting up "beaches" alongside them. They don't want their guests to drive that hour out of town to reach an actual beach, because every hour spent outside the resort means less money spent at Disney. Yet another reason why we finally stopped going to Disney.
Disney and every Central Florida resort should be held accountable for witholding valuable information from customers. If people assume the waters are safe, they can't make informed decisions to protect their children.
Having stayed at many of these resorts, I can attest to the fact that they are negligent about warning people of the presence of alligators. "No swimming" signs are insufficient -- resorts don't want to frighten guests by telling them why they shouldn't swim: the waters are hazardous!
Every mating season alligators go on the move and any small creature, from dogs to toddlers, become fair game. One year, a woman jogging along a path was attacked.
Having been to Disney often, I have wondered at their lack of effort to impart the exact reasons why they forbid swimming, and why they encourage children to get near those retention ponds by setting up "beaches" alongside them. They don't want their guests to drive that hour out of town to reach an actual beach, because every hour spent outside the resort means less money spent at Disney. Yet another reason why we finally stopped going to Disney.
Disney and every Central Florida resort should be held accountable for witholding valuable information from customers. If people assume the waters are safe, they can't make informed decisions to protect their children.
18
Bunk. No swimming allowed signs are everywhere. The resorts constantly patrol their beaches to enforce this rule. The paperwork at check-in warns people staying at the resorts not to swim on the beaches. What you and like minded overly protective people who always have 20-20 hindsight would prefer is a big barbed wire fence around every body of water at Disney. That's not exactly conducive to a fun vacation experience, but it would make you feel better when you ignore your children and let them wander off into danger.
12
No swimming means just that. NO SWIMMING.
swimming = feet off the ground, floating, nearly submerged.
NO Wading - Stay out of the water -- entry prohibited - Warning: Alligators --
DANGER! No swimming, no wading, no splashing.
This is what should have been posted in some manner. It would have been much more direct and instructive. Especially for the beach in the photo.
IMO, that doesn't look like a swamp, or murky, or dangerous. It resembles the state park beaches on lakes. Nice, sweet, ok for a little kid to splash ankle deep with my eye on the child. I've had similar occasions when my child was 2-3 years old.
If he had been making sandcastles, and getting a bucket of water, the alligator would likely still have attacked. It's what they do. Watch some nature shows.
The main issue, as far as I am concerned, is that in a resort where Disney does everything it can to convince parents of fun in the sun, there was nothing specific other than "No Swimming", which does not even imply to not be around the water.
My heart goes out to the parents.
swimming = feet off the ground, floating, nearly submerged.
NO Wading - Stay out of the water -- entry prohibited - Warning: Alligators --
DANGER! No swimming, no wading, no splashing.
This is what should have been posted in some manner. It would have been much more direct and instructive. Especially for the beach in the photo.
IMO, that doesn't look like a swamp, or murky, or dangerous. It resembles the state park beaches on lakes. Nice, sweet, ok for a little kid to splash ankle deep with my eye on the child. I've had similar occasions when my child was 2-3 years old.
If he had been making sandcastles, and getting a bucket of water, the alligator would likely still have attacked. It's what they do. Watch some nature shows.
The main issue, as far as I am concerned, is that in a resort where Disney does everything it can to convince parents of fun in the sun, there was nothing specific other than "No Swimming", which does not even imply to not be around the water.
My heart goes out to the parents.
2
Is that picture with the swingset actually the beach in question? If so, this situation looks to be an enticement and a ticking time bomb.
5
Different beach, same lagoon.
3
I feel very sorry for the family of whos child was horribly taken from them
But i also feel very sorry for the animals as after reading a article about what happend it said that 5 alligators had been killed because of what happend and i think that this is just a horrible inncident that is going to make people think all alligators are monsters
But i also feel very sorry for the animals as after reading a article about what happend it said that 5 alligators had been killed because of what happend and i think that this is just a horrible inncident that is going to make people think all alligators are monsters
6
Alligators ARE monsters, as regards their relationship with humans anyway. I am not sure the 5 who were killed really needed to be killed - that was a shame. But they aren't warm and fuzzy and there's no good to come from encouraging people to get cuddly with them or think of them as benign. They want to eat us.
4
I'm devastated about the child. I don't really give a damn about the alligators.
8
Tragedy. Hardly the fault of the parents.
The notion that the Disney Resort in-house wildlife management could effectively control the resort alligator population and ID and cull out any particularly threatening gators in the Florida environment is ludicrous as anyone who has lived in Florida knows all too well.
Disney did anything but due diligence in warning its visitors (customers) about the lethal threat posed by alligators in a setting that was intentionally configured to replicate an inviting and pristine beach.
The lawyers will have a field day.
The notion that the Disney Resort in-house wildlife management could effectively control the resort alligator population and ID and cull out any particularly threatening gators in the Florida environment is ludicrous as anyone who has lived in Florida knows all too well.
Disney did anything but due diligence in warning its visitors (customers) about the lethal threat posed by alligators in a setting that was intentionally configured to replicate an inviting and pristine beach.
The lawyers will have a field day.
5
Did anyone suggest anything about Disney controlling alligator population? Some decent signage would have sufficed.
Yes, it was mentioned in the piece I was commenting on.
We can't assume that just because we know the threat of alligators is always looming in the Deep South that tourists will also take that into consideration. In high traffic tourist areas in SC, we have signs warning of alligators and signs saying not to feed them. Alligators are breeding in the spring and summer and any splashing can mean a source of food for them (they think a prey animal has been injured and is an easy target). Most of the time alligators will simply hiss or lunge at you if they want you to leave. It's illegal to relocate them because they have an incredible homing ability and will just come back to where they were originally, so they have to be unnecessarily killed a lot of times.
My deepest condolences to this family. I hope they never feel at fault and don't listen to the parent shaming of others. They simply did not know this information because they're from Nebraska, and Disney did not supply them with this information. However impossible it may seem right now, I really hope they can find peace one day.
My deepest condolences to this family. I hope they never feel at fault and don't listen to the parent shaming of others. They simply did not know this information because they're from Nebraska, and Disney did not supply them with this information. However impossible it may seem right now, I really hope they can find peace one day.
9
This is a very tragic story. I think may visitors to Florida do not realize the abundance of alligators in the area. Signage was inadequate. On the other hand, I would not have had a two-year old up and out at 9 pm nor would I let a two-year old in the water without holding my hand as a tragedy can instantaneously occur.
5
Most two yr olds are awake a 9 pm in the Magic Kingdom.
3
So sad. I also don't understand why alligators are a protected species. There are millions of them. in the Southern states Between them, the pythons and Nile Crocodiles Florida has become a place to live at your own risk. But lift the ban on killing them and before you know it the problem is solved and alligator wallets will be dirt cheap.
2
I have stood at the spot where the little boy played. It is clearly part of the Grand Floridian property and I cannot recall any signage about Alligators. If I had seen a sign that Alligators were present in that lake, I would have stayed somewhere else. The property is RIGHT ON that "lagoon". I would imagine even a night stroll on a foot path might be dangerous with Alligators along the water's edge. The Grand Floridian is also one of the more costly places to stay in the MagicKingdom. Disney is 100% responsible for this tragedy. With prices of $100 per ticket for a day walking around Disney, this is unconscionable.
16
Staying at a different property wouldn't matter. There are gators at every single Disney resort and probably every single hotel in Florida that has any water anywhere near it, which is nearly every hotel in Florida.
7
I was just looking at Disney's online images of that beach. There are beach chairs on the property. It looks extremely inviting. It would be VERY easy to think that "no swimming" does not actually mean "don't even get anywhere near the water." Shameful!
2
Even my european friends know that when travelling in a country with dangerous animals you have to be careful. Everyone knows the gators of Florida. The sign is very clear: no swimming. And than, one time in 30 years it goes wrong. That is nature, that is life. Millions of animals are killed every year by people! And now one kid that was not protected by his parents is killed by a croc.
Many parents let their kids do anything without clear thinking. People with pets are often more smart about how to raise a pet - then parents are. It is unbelievable. Parents know how to buy stuff, and stuff and toys and toys... but not how to raise their child. I am sure that with better signs there will still be parents that let their kids play in a swamp like lake in Florida.
R.I.P. kid. It was not your fault. These things happen in life. Compared to millions of kids in poor countries, who die of natural causes and man made cause all the time - and who really need this media coverage (!) too, you had a great life. I hope you all, humans and animals, play peaceful games in heaven.
Many parents let their kids do anything without clear thinking. People with pets are often more smart about how to raise a pet - then parents are. It is unbelievable. Parents know how to buy stuff, and stuff and toys and toys... but not how to raise their child. I am sure that with better signs there will still be parents that let their kids play in a swamp like lake in Florida.
R.I.P. kid. It was not your fault. These things happen in life. Compared to millions of kids in poor countries, who die of natural causes and man made cause all the time - and who really need this media coverage (!) too, you had a great life. I hope you all, humans and animals, play peaceful games in heaven.
9
Give us a break, absolutely no one has suggested it was the kid's fault!
1
" regularly removes any that appear to be troublesome,"
So if a gator does not look troublesome, Disney leaves it there, and five peaceful-lookin gators had accumulated in the lagoon. Further, there was no sign warning of the gators' presence. What a lawsuit.
So if a gator does not look troublesome, Disney leaves it there, and five peaceful-lookin gators had accumulated in the lagoon. Further, there was no sign warning of the gators' presence. What a lawsuit.
1
I think they mean any gator over 4 ft. Under 4ft, they are not allowed to remove them.
2
Alligators can be anywhere in Florida. They can even be in a person's swimming pool on a fine morning if it's not enclosed. Disney needed to have alligator warning signs, but there is also something to be said for knowing something about where you're going, and the habits of the creatures that live there. Dawn and dusk? Prime feeding time for alligators. That said, this is a tragedy, and I can't imagine what the parents are going through. My heart aches for them, but blaming Disney alone is not the full answer, and guaranteeing that a lake in Florida is alligator-free, as one writer suggested, is simply impossible. Assuming that there ARE alligators in every body of water is a safe bet.
5
With alligators roaming freely, maybe the 2 year old's parents should have been more vigilant. However, what an ordinary prudent parent would do and what an ordinary resort club would do under the circumstances, will be for the jury to decide.
This is never getting to a jury, nor is it ever getting into suit because Disney will settle this as soon as possible as quietly as possible and then move on.
A sign clearly said that swimming was not permitted in the lagoon. Technically one could argue that the youngster was not "swimming" per se, only "splashing about," but he was in the alligator infested water nonetheless. The parents of this little boy have only themselves to blame for this tragedy.
5
Did the parents, who are from Nebraska where there are no alligators, know these are "alligator infested waters"? No, they did not, as Disney did not post any information to that effect. The family was visiting a highly-controlled resort, where every detail is seen too. Disney knew there were alligators in the lagoon, or at the very least, a high likelihood of them being present. They did not, however, choose to share that information with their customers. That's the tragedy here. And massive negligence on Disney's part.
Would any sane person allow their child to be in waters they knew to be home to alligators? No.
Would any sane person allow their child to be in waters they knew to be home to alligators? No.
3
Once again a cash cow corporation will be forced to pay ransom money to a consumer who does not read and follow label directions. In this case two parents allowed their child to go wading in a Florida lake that has warning signs against swimming, and they turned their backs while he did. Disney will pay millions for doing nothing wrong. That's America today. Irresponsible parenting leads to a loss of a child, and a big payday to soothe parental guilt.
8
I'm assuming you do realize they have NOT filed a lawsuit. As far as I know no info has come out about their possible legal plans. But feel free to trash this grief stricken family on the basis of nothing.
3
years ago we were there with our two small boys. we let them go into a boat without us with Disney's approved. they were hit with a wake and fell out of the boat. We were shocked when they came to shore wet. Stupid us but did we learned a hard lesson. Do not trust Disney. False sense of security. And incidentally Disney could not have cared less. We are reliving that terrible incident now. Disney is culpable and I hope it costs them big time.
4
We live in a world that is inherently unsafe, no matter how safe we humans try to make it. We are not so far from being thrust back into the food chain as we think, especially as we seek to preserve or bring what is left of the "wildness" that remains for us to examine, observe or experience even closer to our daily lives. That the world is a scary place should, of late, not be lost on anyone, and the price, sadly, is vigilance at all times, and at all places. Tragic, yes; unexplainable, no.
3
We are at war with nature--that's who we are as human beings. Disney could be said to be the propaganda wing of this effort. Climate change, deforestation, and species extinction are all out of control. Last week we killed a rare gorilla and now we are upset because one child was killed by a gator--in the animal's once natural habitat.
Killing nature is our own slow suicide.
Does ANYBODY see this?
Killing nature is our own slow suicide.
Does ANYBODY see this?
8
Here is a follow up warning. Do not ask concierge Jerome Powell for advice about Florida. "That alligator should never have been in that water." shows a total ignorance of Florida's environment and wildlife. If it is not the ocean or a chlorinated swimming pool stay out and stay back. If you see a pretty red, yellow, and black snake, do not try to pick it up.
Finally, don't listen to Jerome when he says the pelicans should not be on the docks by the fishing boats.
Finally, don't listen to Jerome when he says the pelicans should not be on the docks by the fishing boats.
14
I know. It's like saying what was all that sand doing on the beach.
5
This is a human tragedy. My heart goes out to the unwitting toddler.
That said, in Central Florida, it is a safe assumption that pretty much any body of water might have an alligator in it. They are pervasive in the area. Any manmade lagoon naturally acquiring an alligator population is totally unsurprising. Furthermore, alligators are active from dusk-to-dawn. They are known to attack small children, and small dogs - in the water/ or even near the shore.
Disney is in business to create an atmosphere of wonderment and fantasy. This state of enchantment can lull a person into a sense of complacency. It is unrealistic to expect Disney to post signs that say: "Danger: Alligators" and a laundry-list of fatal alligator attacks in Florida beside that sign. It would be a jarring counter-point to "enchantment".
Casting blame is easy. Litigation and/ or putting a price on life has become an American past-time.
Caveat emptor!
That said, in Central Florida, it is a safe assumption that pretty much any body of water might have an alligator in it. They are pervasive in the area. Any manmade lagoon naturally acquiring an alligator population is totally unsurprising. Furthermore, alligators are active from dusk-to-dawn. They are known to attack small children, and small dogs - in the water/ or even near the shore.
Disney is in business to create an atmosphere of wonderment and fantasy. This state of enchantment can lull a person into a sense of complacency. It is unrealistic to expect Disney to post signs that say: "Danger: Alligators" and a laundry-list of fatal alligator attacks in Florida beside that sign. It would be a jarring counter-point to "enchantment".
Casting blame is easy. Litigation and/ or putting a price on life has become an American past-time.
Caveat emptor!
3
Money will not replace the child. But I say go after Disney full throttle. A sign that says No swimming is not the same as Danger alligators present. What are alligators doing in the lake anyway? Geezus get'em out of there and move them to Trump's resort.
6
What are alligators doing in the lake? They live there. It's Florida.
11
What are birds doing in the sky?
9
I would really like to know why Disney posts lifeguards at that "beach." It's an obvious statement that they acknowledge that people might go in the water.
3
If I understood correctly, the lifeguard was at a dedicated swimming feature nearby, but not at the edge of this lagoon.
8
Like everyone else, I am sorry about the death of the little boy.
Perhaps it's just me but I've always interpreted no swimming signs at any body of water to mean don't enter it. I'd don't need to know whether it's because the water has dangerous currents in which I can drown or dangerous infectious agents or alligators or whatever.
As to the inane comment of Jerome Powell. We build in the natural habitat of the alligators and then we expect them all to be gone.
Perhaps it's just me but I've always interpreted no swimming signs at any body of water to mean don't enter it. I'd don't need to know whether it's because the water has dangerous currents in which I can drown or dangerous infectious agents or alligators or whatever.
As to the inane comment of Jerome Powell. We build in the natural habitat of the alligators and then we expect them all to be gone.
10
"no swimming" signs on a beach mean "no swimming" they do not mean, "don't wade in ankle deep water on the beach or a gator will get you"
4
I was even scared to open the article, for fear that I would hear the tragic news!!
I thought and prayed that somehow just somehow this wonderful little star would continue to shine. I was dead wrong......now he will shine from above, a billion miles above and beyond us mortals.
I had once a boat ride over the lake and saw a snake swimming....it means that the authorities should really do everything possible to avoid a repeat and sad incident by aquatic creatures!
I thought and prayed that somehow just somehow this wonderful little star would continue to shine. I was dead wrong......now he will shine from above, a billion miles above and beyond us mortals.
I had once a boat ride over the lake and saw a snake swimming....it means that the authorities should really do everything possible to avoid a repeat and sad incident by aquatic creatures!
2
Nothing wrong with swimming snakes.
I taught school for over 30 years and have chaperoned many trips with groups of
children.. In 30 years I never had a lost or injured child. I strongly believe these parents were negligent and should be held responsible for their child's death.
children.. In 30 years I never had a lost or injured child. I strongly believe these parents were negligent and should be held responsible for their child's death.
9
If this happens tomorrow with you, what will be your judgement about yourself.
6
Liz,
I also taught for 30 plus years and took many students on field trips and never lost or had an injured child.
If for some reason, one student had somehow become lost or injured, would that automatically have made you or me negligent?
In addition, to our careful planning and diligent supervision, we also had a bit of good fortune.
Please don't be so condescending and judgmental of this father.
I also taught for 30 plus years and took many students on field trips and never lost or had an injured child.
If for some reason, one student had somehow become lost or injured, would that automatically have made you or me negligent?
In addition, to our careful planning and diligent supervision, we also had a bit of good fortune.
Please don't be so condescending and judgmental of this father.
5
Waiting for someone to say the dad (or toddler!) should have been armed so as to stand his ground.
7
Aside from what we keep in zoos, we should look at exterminating alligators and other wild predators of people.
1
Whaaaat? Why? It's a tragedy certainly, for the family of the boy, and I feel sad for them; I wouldn't wish it on anyone. I don't think he would have suffered much, it probably would have been quick. (Personally, I would rather go this way than being shot to bits by a lunatic)
However Alligators are part of Florida, it's where they live. Alligators and all animals are part of the natural world that supports US, the HUMANS- ya know, the ones doing their best to destroy the environment. There are enough extinct or nearly extinct animals.
However Alligators are part of Florida, it's where they live. Alligators and all animals are part of the natural world that supports US, the HUMANS- ya know, the ones doing their best to destroy the environment. There are enough extinct or nearly extinct animals.
6
Instead of destroying the ecosystem, why not take the extremely simple measures to coexist or stay away from their habitat instead? Think of the millions of people who live and play in alligator, bear, wolf, mountain lion, moose, bison, etc country. Almost every single time someone is attacked it is because they did something stupid. Don't sleep outside near food, don't approach wild animals, don't run alone in mountain lion territory, don't play in the water when you are small, especially after dusk.
7
Alligators are wild animals, not goldfish. They've existed for millions of years. Swampland is their natural habitat and you want to destroy them "and other wild predators of people" because...they didn't get the memo? We are the intruders encroaching on THEM. Disney stupidly chose to build an amusement park on swampland. They created a man-made lagoon in alligator infested waters and benignly referred to it as a "beach." They put up "No Swimming" signs with no warnings of alligators being a threat/indigenous to that area. This is Florida and they absolutely knew that alligators are a threat near ANY body of water, fresh or saline. I feel horrible for the parents' loss of their beautiful little boy. As a mother and grandmother, I can't imagine how they are coping. However, they chose to ignore the posted "No Swimming" signs and let their toddler go in that water and that was irresponsible. Disney bears the brunt of responsibility for what happened but the parents are not completely faultless.
I'm astounded by the culture of blame we've developed, whether you blame the parents, the alligator, the resort, Or even(!) the "undisciplined child" who was all of 24 months old. There are situations where there's just a tragedy. It isn't your business to decide who's to blame. Maybe nobody is.
19
Thank you, BC. That REALLY needed to be said.
3
Heads should roll at Disney for the gross negligence in property management. To not have these ponds roped off with signs indicating danger is exposing humans and alligators to the inevitable clash. Amazed it hasn't happened more frequently. Not everything at Disney has a smiley face on it and animating everything lulls the innocent. If Disney is too afraid to taint their image with a scary sign that might have protected this family, then they need to revisit their mission.
The loss of this child and quite frankly, the ridiculous slaughter of the animals is a shameful episode. Disney: settle this case with a large check, don't make this family go to trial, review your policies on all facilities , fix the gaps, and start over. Snow White can't whistle this one away.
The loss of this child and quite frankly, the ridiculous slaughter of the animals is a shameful episode. Disney: settle this case with a large check, don't make this family go to trial, review your policies on all facilities , fix the gaps, and start over. Snow White can't whistle this one away.
6
Right on. Disney will do so at the appropriate time to be sure.
A terrible tragedy for the family, and they have all our sympathies.
However, a rather strange article from the Times. First we are told "Alligators are a common sight in Florida [waters]", Disney has never had an incident like this (in 45 years), overall attacks are "not common at all", there were no recent reports of "nuisance alligators", Disney has a "wildlife management team" that regularly removes alligators, and keeping all alligators out is "not a feasible option". These quotes apparently came from establishment/authority experts - the Sheriff and the Executive Director of the Florida Wildlife Conservation Commission.
Then the reporter seemed to need to give us "the other side". We hear from an employee of a competitor hotel (thank you for identifying him as such) which seems uninformed and problematic at best - "with all the money they're making..", "..that alligator should never have been in that water", "that's crazy", etc., another quote from a plaintiff's lawyer which is just a bit hyperbolic - "...at the mercy of dangerous and wild animals that roam its resort [!]", and brief and vague words from a 16-year-old from CT.
I don't know the truth or fault or preventabilty here, that's why I read your newspaper. But it feels like another facet of the "false equivalency" problem that seems to be growing in journalism. I can easily obtain uninformed or agenda-full opinion in many places on the internet, but look for better from the Times.
However, a rather strange article from the Times. First we are told "Alligators are a common sight in Florida [waters]", Disney has never had an incident like this (in 45 years), overall attacks are "not common at all", there were no recent reports of "nuisance alligators", Disney has a "wildlife management team" that regularly removes alligators, and keeping all alligators out is "not a feasible option". These quotes apparently came from establishment/authority experts - the Sheriff and the Executive Director of the Florida Wildlife Conservation Commission.
Then the reporter seemed to need to give us "the other side". We hear from an employee of a competitor hotel (thank you for identifying him as such) which seems uninformed and problematic at best - "with all the money they're making..", "..that alligator should never have been in that water", "that's crazy", etc., another quote from a plaintiff's lawyer which is just a bit hyperbolic - "...at the mercy of dangerous and wild animals that roam its resort [!]", and brief and vague words from a 16-year-old from CT.
I don't know the truth or fault or preventabilty here, that's why I read your newspaper. But it feels like another facet of the "false equivalency" problem that seems to be growing in journalism. I can easily obtain uninformed or agenda-full opinion in many places on the internet, but look for better from the Times.
14
False equivalency can certainly get out of hand, as it has been the go-to technique to buttress claims of "objectivity." What we are missing is context...any context at all sometimes, which I think can explain some of the frustrations and exasperation plaguing readers of the art Mencken once explained of journalism, that is, that it was "literature in a hurry." At its best perhaps.
The old joke is if candidate a said the moon was made of cheese and candidate b said the moon sas made of stone, the headline and story would be "A says cheese, B says stone, there you have it, another disagreement on the campaign trail..."
Good grief. Let's make some adult assumptions, and some reasonably informed ones, and see if frustration diminishes. It should.
The old joke is if candidate a said the moon was made of cheese and candidate b said the moon sas made of stone, the headline and story would be "A says cheese, B says stone, there you have it, another disagreement on the campaign trail..."
Good grief. Let's make some adult assumptions, and some reasonably informed ones, and see if frustration diminishes. It should.
This is a terrible tragedy and reminds me of what I dislike about Disney. It's an artificial experience. To a 2 year old a big lake with a beach looks like a place to swim. But it's not. It's a fake lake filled with gators. It's only for looking at and being ferried on. The warning needed to say more than No Swimming.
9
Lol, anytime you do anything besides walk through the wild with no equipment it is a fake experience. And florida is filled with water both man made and natural filled with alligators. Between the canals, retention ponds, "lakes", resorts, golf courses, etc. a large portion at floridas wetlands are man made. It's a tragedy, but an avoidable one if you teach your kid to respect the place you visit and not break its rules. I myself would've stayed out of water even if it wasnt private property because I wouldn't have known if it was gators, pollution, bacteria, etc. I wouldn't want my kid bringing home a brain eating amoeba as a souvenir.
6
In response to your story reflecting every parent's worst nightmares, this forum is chock full of judgmental responses reflecting the shock and horror of your readers to this incident. Most of us, myself included, would benefit from some time to think and come up with something more empathic, or rational, or - useful, than a knee jerk.
Given the undeniable fact that Lane Graves is gone forever, what can or should be done in the aftermath of his tragic loss, besides the inevitable assignation of responsibility?
I can't help but think of Lane's sister, who hopefully is young enough to be able to integrate and recover from not only the trauma of the experience, but her parents' evolving reaction to it as well. Even if a therapist could convince them that they did nothing to deserve this, I have to imagine that the parents will second-guess themselves on every decision regarding their remaining child's wishes to explore her world - in other words, the same kinds of decisions they made regarding Lane - and wind up over-protecting their daughter, to her own detriment.
Children often blame themselves for their parents' unhappiness, no matter what the cause. It would be another tragedy, certainly less dramatic but just as far-reaching, for this little girl to grow up feeling that she was somehow the reason she lost her brother - and her family lost one of their dreams.
Given the undeniable fact that Lane Graves is gone forever, what can or should be done in the aftermath of his tragic loss, besides the inevitable assignation of responsibility?
I can't help but think of Lane's sister, who hopefully is young enough to be able to integrate and recover from not only the trauma of the experience, but her parents' evolving reaction to it as well. Even if a therapist could convince them that they did nothing to deserve this, I have to imagine that the parents will second-guess themselves on every decision regarding their remaining child's wishes to explore her world - in other words, the same kinds of decisions they made regarding Lane - and wind up over-protecting their daughter, to her own detriment.
Children often blame themselves for their parents' unhappiness, no matter what the cause. It would be another tragedy, certainly less dramatic but just as far-reaching, for this little girl to grow up feeling that she was somehow the reason she lost her brother - and her family lost one of their dreams.
84
This is spot on. Well said
Yes, I was also thinking of the sister and how somebody managed to explain to her that an alligator wanted to eat her brother. And, as you point out, the ongoing issues.
1
what did the witnesses see
Tragic indeed, but overreacting to the situation isn't going to bring the child back.
2
With the exception of sea turtles, all reptiles over four feet long ought to be luggage. What in the world is a public recreation area doing allowing an alligator to live where people might be swimming?
3
Disney is 47.7 square miles of Florida swampland. San Francisco is 46.9 square miles. Disney should post warnings, but there is absolutely no way for Disney to keep gators off of the property.
13
Allowing? Disney actively removes the animals whenever they are found. Even though they are in their own habitat. Alligators travel, if you live in the area they are a common sight in parks, roadsides, backyard pools, etc. I myself chased a three foot alligator off the road when I was visiting my mother two years ago.
7
Warnings were clearly posted.....and sadly ignored. What an awful month June has been for Orlando.
3
My condolences go out to the family. What a devastating loss. I've read insensitive comments, primarily blaming the parents. Could Disney do more to prevent swimming in water where alligators are present? Of course. The other issue I have with the way matters were handled is euthanizing the 5-6 alligators in the lagoon in case one was responsible for the boy's death. What purpose did this serve? Was the alligator going to be placed on trial and sentenced? Obviously the child died because of an alligator. His father saw him being carried away by one with his own eyes. If Disney is trying to make right by the family and public, is killing more lives the best way to go about doing this? What a highly insensitive, cruel and barbaric approach.
9
Emptying that pool of alligators is the way out, or close the resort to families with young children. Gators are not an endangered species. In fact they are a pest now and in absence of natural predators, decimating other species. Man has to take place of their predator and control the population. They have no place in a manmade lagoon in a family resort.
There is no way to keep them out. There is no way to keep gators out of ANY water in Florida. They can remove them, but more will come.
8
Maybe the stupid resort has no place in a traditional alligator area.
Why shouldn't animals have the right to live in their own environment without people having to control and destroy everything?
Why shouldn't animals have the right to live in their own environment without people having to control and destroy everything?
1
"The sheriff said five alligators were taken from the lagoon after the boy went under. They have been euthanized to determine if any of them killed the boy."
They're treating the animals as if they're humans suspected of harming or bothering other people. It's a ritualized sacrifice the authorities perform every time an animal behaves, as animals do, in some way that offends humans, whether an animal has killed a child or wandered into a human neighborhood, such as bears looking for food in trashcans.
They're treating the animals as if they're humans suspected of harming or bothering other people. It's a ritualized sacrifice the authorities perform every time an animal behaves, as animals do, in some way that offends humans, whether an animal has killed a child or wandered into a human neighborhood, such as bears looking for food in trashcans.
12
They were opening the bellies of the gators to see if there were human remains before the body was found intact. That is why they were killed.
5
The news report says the child's body was completely intact. It's possible that the authorities killed and inspected the five alligators before they found the child. Nevertheless, this is at least the second instance this year of a toddler getting into trouble involving dangerous animals because the parents failed to watch their child closely. In each instance, the parents should be held completely responsible.
6
Give me a break. These parents were not at the bar getting hammered, they were on a beach created for them by Disney within steps of the child when this occurred. And newsflash to all of you Floridians, not all of us in the country are experts on the dangers and prevalence of gators in Central Florida, nor is it a part of the brochure they hand you with your fast passes or included with the room key at one of its most expensive hotels. There should have been no beach or guest chairs inviting the guests to lounge by the lagoon as well as more appropriate signage at a minimum. Attacking these parents is unconscionable and reprehensible. This could have been any of us.
4
All that would have been necessary for any parents to have kept their children out of the water would have been a sign warning of the possibility of alligators. Floridians are all too familiar with that scenario, but people from other parts of the country may not be, or may assume that the waters in an enclosed resort area are self-contained and alligator-free. And I would guess that the boy who was dragged off and drowned was not the only child in the water at the edge of the lagoon that day. (I recently visited one of the beaches on Lake Erie, where many people were wading in the water despite the "No Swimming" signs. "No Swimming" doesn't mean "No Wading" to people in Ohio, apparently.) The parents involved may have allowed the toddler to wade in the waters to avoid a public tantrum prompted by the restraint that would otherwise have been necessary.
Attempts to blame the parents in this case and in the case of the little boy rescued from the gorilla enclosure are pathetic and cruel.
Attempts to blame the parents in this case and in the case of the little boy rescued from the gorilla enclosure are pathetic and cruel.
14
It's good to know that Disney has just opened its new $5.5 Billion Park in Shanghai because that's probably what its going to cost them when the Graves' attorneys get through with them.
7
Why would Disney be liable for a wild reptile when the child stepped into its natural habitat?
12
Ron, there's logic and then, there's American juries on civil trials. Two distinctly different things.
4
There is nothing natural about a manmade beach on a manmade lagoon, in midst of highly priced "Family" resorts, which advertise the said beach in their brochures.
1
I've seen many comments on here about "accidents being accidents." While this is true, this child was not killed by a freak bolt of lightening or a falling tree. Alligators in the waters of these resorts were a known entity, and as such, there are things Disney could do better to protect guests. I am reminded of a trip to Australia when I went to a resort in Cairns, a rainforest area in the northeast. The resort--knowing it was a tourist destination and that not everyone would be familiar with the local wildlife--gave all guests a brochure when they checked in, which the staff reviewed with the guests. The fluorescent brochure outlined the very real natural dangers that could exist on the resort: sea crocodiles (in both fresh and salt water), poisonous jellyfish , and large, ostrich-like birds called cassowaries in the forest. It even showed you the best way to escape a cassowary! All of these animals were potentially lethal. You can be sure that I didn't step a toe in any body of water aside from the resort pool, despite the heat. The point of this is, a large, tourist-driven theme park resort, which pulls in visitors from places where they don't even have alligators, should take pains to explain the dangers to its guests. Would something like this have saved this little boy's life? Who knows, but if I received an alligator brochure at check-in rather than seeing a "no swimming" sign, my kid wouldn't have been within 10 feet of that water's edge.
29
You last sentence is key. The visitors deserve to be educated about any natural dangers within all Disney facilities. I am sure people would react far differently if the signage alerted people to the gators in the waters. I saw a picture posted of the area and actually found it to be a bit too 'inviting' near the waters edge.
3
Quite reasonable for the parents to allow their kid to play in foot-deep water - not swimming, as prohibited by the signs, and the parents not having been warned of wildlife in the area. Disney is wide open for a lawsuit on this one.
11
Any person knows no swimming means stay out of water. And any body of water in Florida, including your backyard pool, will have the potential of containing dangerous wildlife, including large alligators. Maybe if people thought about the places they visited tragedies like this would happen less.
3
Neglecting to post alligator signs on an inviting beach and having Disney sponsored evening entertainment only feet away from an inviting water's edge just smacks of entrepreneurial intentional neglect.
2
Actually, No Swimming does not mean stay out of the water. That's why there are also No Wading signs. Not only should Disney have put up No Wading signs, but there should have been warnings about alligators! For example, many state and national parks have warnings about bears and rattlesnakes. Yes, if you really know Florida, you're likely to be more careful, but this family and many others from around the world don't think they're visiting the Everglades when they are on open sand beach off a Disney resort. That's up to Disney to let them know.
3
Nonsense
There were posted Warning Signs regarding entering the water.
Waiting to see if these parents are eventually charged with negligence
There were posted Warning Signs regarding entering the water.
Waiting to see if these parents are eventually charged with negligence
3
Disney could have and should have put up signs warning of the danger. But they were never going to do this (they may have to now!) because it doesn't mesh with the Disney image. "Warning - Dangerous Alligators" does not go with happy go lucky Mickey Mouse.
Disney is culpable.
My deepest condolences to the family.
Disney is culpable.
My deepest condolences to the family.
11
I agree, Disney should have put up signs more specific than "no swimming" and warned of alligators. Could have saved this child's life.
3
This is incredibly tragic, and preventable. It only confirms that trying to dress a cold and indifferent universe in a princess dress and giving it a song and dance number doesn't change its nature. Nature will fight back when you encroach on it too far.
In my suburban neighborhood, people are upset over wild turkeys, which can get very aggressive. My response is to ask them why they moved to the habitat of wild turkeys. We can extend this to why would you build a theme park near the habitat of a top predator? Disney really is to blame for creating a fake sense of security. But then again, a fake, sanitized version of reality is what Disney does best.
I do not understand the appeal of such artificial surroundings shoehorned into a place it doesn't belong. When I was eight, my family went to Disneyland. Even at that age, I found the utter phoniness of the place incredibly unsettling. It was very, very creepy, and almost sinister, just like everything else associated with Disney. I imagine that Disney World is even worse.
In my suburban neighborhood, people are upset over wild turkeys, which can get very aggressive. My response is to ask them why they moved to the habitat of wild turkeys. We can extend this to why would you build a theme park near the habitat of a top predator? Disney really is to blame for creating a fake sense of security. But then again, a fake, sanitized version of reality is what Disney does best.
I do not understand the appeal of such artificial surroundings shoehorned into a place it doesn't belong. When I was eight, my family went to Disneyland. Even at that age, I found the utter phoniness of the place incredibly unsettling. It was very, very creepy, and almost sinister, just like everything else associated with Disney. I imagine that Disney World is even worse.
9
I remember long lines and sun poisoning at Disney World
1
When I first read about this I never imagined it happening in a place where people are literally invited to the waterside by sandy beaches and lounge chairs! I've been to Florida many times. Of course there are countless bodies of water, but alligator warning signs are also very common, especially at hotels and other public areas. The fact that people are expected to be near if not wading in this water and there were NO alligator signs suggests that Disney is either incredibly ignorant of wildlife in Florida (doubtful) or incredibly negligent.
18
I do think there is a need for signage. In the past on Disney trips if a gator was seen nearby, we were always warned by Disney cast members.
That said, in over 25 trips to Disney, I have never once seen anyone touching that water. The beaches are barely used. The water is off-limits to swimming because of the risk of toxic algal bloom and toxic bacteria, a common problem in Florida freshwater. The largest inland boat fleet in the US operates on that lagoon and the attached Bay Lake, so I'm assuming there is fuel and oil runoff from those. It definitely isn't bathing water at all.
I don't blame the parents in this situation at all. Their loss is horrific and unfathomable. I'm just saying that the beaches really aren't used much at all and are empty most of the time, except during fireworks viewing.
That said, in over 25 trips to Disney, I have never once seen anyone touching that water. The beaches are barely used. The water is off-limits to swimming because of the risk of toxic algal bloom and toxic bacteria, a common problem in Florida freshwater. The largest inland boat fleet in the US operates on that lagoon and the attached Bay Lake, so I'm assuming there is fuel and oil runoff from those. It definitely isn't bathing water at all.
I don't blame the parents in this situation at all. Their loss is horrific and unfathomable. I'm just saying that the beaches really aren't used much at all and are empty most of the time, except during fireworks viewing.
34
Something many people fail to realize is that the Walt Disney World Resort property is 47.7 square miles of Florida swampland. For reference, the city of San Francisco is 46.9 square miles. Disney can control the alligator population about as well as San Francisco can control the bird population or Maui can control the shark population.
Now, those who are not familiar with the region might not realize that every single body of water in Florida is a potential gator habitat. Florida is filled with retention ponds built for flood prevention due to the type of rock that Florida sits on. These ponds are also gator homes. Gators are everywhere. Floridians know this and act accordingly, but those not from the region might not be aware.
I agree that Disney should put proper notice around the beaches. I would personally still like to enjoy those beaches on my Disney visits, although from a safe distance from the water's edge, as I have always enjoyed them. I do not agree with those who feel Disney was remiss in "allowing" an alligator on property in the first place. Walt Disney World is a city in Central Florida. It has its own bus, boat, and monorail transportation system. It has the largest inland boat fleet in the US. There are over 20 resort hotels, hundreds of restaurants, golf courses, water parks, campgrounds, waterways, highways, PLUS four theme parks. This is not your local Six Flags.
Now, those who are not familiar with the region might not realize that every single body of water in Florida is a potential gator habitat. Florida is filled with retention ponds built for flood prevention due to the type of rock that Florida sits on. These ponds are also gator homes. Gators are everywhere. Floridians know this and act accordingly, but those not from the region might not be aware.
I agree that Disney should put proper notice around the beaches. I would personally still like to enjoy those beaches on my Disney visits, although from a safe distance from the water's edge, as I have always enjoyed them. I do not agree with those who feel Disney was remiss in "allowing" an alligator on property in the first place. Walt Disney World is a city in Central Florida. It has its own bus, boat, and monorail transportation system. It has the largest inland boat fleet in the US. There are over 20 resort hotels, hundreds of restaurants, golf courses, water parks, campgrounds, waterways, highways, PLUS four theme parks. This is not your local Six Flags.
18
Disney was not remiss in "allowing" the alligator to be there, since it could not have prevented it. It possibly was remiss in allowing and possibly encouraging families to be that close to the water, especially after dark, especially with young children.
3
Wish I could post a picture of one of the Disney signs here. It actually says NO SWIMMING and beneath the words there's an alligator with the words BEWARE PLEASE BE AWARE OF ALLIGATORS IN THE LAKE.
How much more of a warning do people really need?
How much more of a warning do people really need?
8
That said, my heart is absolutely crushed for this family. I cannot even begin to imagine their pain and loss. Signage for visitors unaware of the dangers of Florida wildlife is a very good idea. Expecting that the gators can be removed wholesale is not.
This was not the first alligator attack on a child at DisneyWorld (not Disney Land, which is in desert-ish California and has no alligators). Our local Boston TV station interviewed a local man who was attacked at Disney World in 1987 at age 7 and still has the scars from the attack, as well as many news articles. That boy had two older siblings nearby who threw things at the gator until he opened his jaws and the boy could get out.
6
I am an artist and for months have been envisioning painting a large alligator mouth wide open....somehow this tragedy becomes a sign of the times....greedy corporate irresponsible Disney, a beast with massive muscle and only a stem brain that relays hyper-agressive messages, an innocent victim, a how-could-this-happen? disbelief....a metaphor for political as well as societal mindset..
Who is the terrorist in this picture?
My heart goes out to the family no matter what....
Who is the terrorist in this picture?
My heart goes out to the family no matter what....
2
This is a heartbreaking story. I cannot imagine the anguish this family is going through, losing this precious child.
The nastiness and lack of empathy from many commenters on here is disheartening. Smugly lecturing the parents about "personal responsibility" is heartless and cruel, not to mention misguided.
This was a horrible, nightmare-inducing scenario that no parent could be expected to foresee. He was sitting on a sandy beach at the edge of the water, just like millions of other toddlers every day.
Shame on those of you who feel the need to shame this poor unfortunate family and grief-stricken parents. Have some humanity.
The nastiness and lack of empathy from many commenters on here is disheartening. Smugly lecturing the parents about "personal responsibility" is heartless and cruel, not to mention misguided.
This was a horrible, nightmare-inducing scenario that no parent could be expected to foresee. He was sitting on a sandy beach at the edge of the water, just like millions of other toddlers every day.
Shame on those of you who feel the need to shame this poor unfortunate family and grief-stricken parents. Have some humanity.
22
Yup, reading the nasty comments from Vegans, assorted animal lovers, and parent responsibility lecturers, leads to me to wonder what went wrong in childhood education of these commenters. Where did learn this hate for the fellow human beings. Take a look a the picture of Lane, and imagine the grief and pain the parents are going through. I shudder to be in company of these nasty commenters.
6
So very sorry for the family's loss. Signs indicating the danger of alligators should have been posted. Not everyone would be aware of their dangerous presence. Terrible tragedy.
6
Just like the parents in the Gorilla case these people need to be investigated, right? Where is the petition to sign? I'm a little confused as to where all of this compassion was during the gorilla issue but oh well, charge these people with child abuse and endangerment!
3
Um, so many differences...you are comparing apples to oranges. One major difference is the gorilla was captured and caged by humans for human enjoyment while he lives a life in an enclosure at the mercy of his handlers. It is our job to protect his health and well-being. He was then slaughtered bc a woman negligently lost supervision of her son while he climbed INTO that cage. The gorilla did not reach over the enclosure and grab and kill the child. In that instance, it is the child that is still alive. Whereas, the alligator in Florida was already in his natural habitat and did (within that habitat/his home) what normal predators will do. You cannot control wildlife in the wild, such as snakes, bees, alligators, etc. Finally, the family was simply sitting on a beach along the water's edge enjoying a summer vacation. There was nothing negligent at all about THEIR behavior at all.
With that said, I do believe the signs should have had warnings about the dangers of alligators. Such a tragic story all the way around.
With that said, I do believe the signs should have had warnings about the dangers of alligators. Such a tragic story all the way around.
A "beware" sign would do a lot... The entire state is a wetland, gators are there naturally. Disney world don't. What a tragedy.
A state tourism official did not respond to a request for comment.
Seriously, what did you think that official might say? How ridiculous!
Seriously, what did you think that official might say? How ridiculous!
2
The tourists at Disney have the expectation that any alligators they see there are animated ones.
That said, I spend plenty of time in Florida and don't go near freshbody water. I wouldn't do it at Disney either because I'm too fearful, but if I was a naive mid- westerner I'd interpret a "No Swimming" sign pretty literally, that is, I would not go into the water deep enough breaststroke (nor allow the children) but wouldn't interpret it as a ban on wading ankle-deep/
There shouldn't be any beaches by fresh water in Florida because the alligator population continues to explode (thanks to human re-engineering of the Eco-system) and there is no end in sight unless the state gets over it's reverence for the sacred alligator.
That said, I spend plenty of time in Florida and don't go near freshbody water. I wouldn't do it at Disney either because I'm too fearful, but if I was a naive mid- westerner I'd interpret a "No Swimming" sign pretty literally, that is, I would not go into the water deep enough breaststroke (nor allow the children) but wouldn't interpret it as a ban on wading ankle-deep/
There shouldn't be any beaches by fresh water in Florida because the alligator population continues to explode (thanks to human re-engineering of the Eco-system) and there is no end in sight unless the state gets over it's reverence for the sacred alligator.
8
I can't help but think back on the situation with the 3-year old and the gorilla. Like with that incident, where the gorilla was killed to save the boy, several alligators were euthanized to determine if any had eaten the child in Florida. I feel so badly for both families because children are slippery and can wander away, not realizing that they could be wandering into danger. Even though the father was standing close to the child, and had no reason to believe any harm would come to his child, still the unthinkable happened.
When so many people were quick to vilify the mother in the gorilla incident, here is an illustration of what can happen when a child falls into the hands of a wild animal.
When so many people were quick to vilify the mother in the gorilla incident, here is an illustration of what can happen when a child falls into the hands of a wild animal.
4
So, boy gets himself into gorilla habitat. Humans kill gorilla. Equals public outrage. Boy gets himself in alligator habitat. Humans kill FIVE alligators. No one cares. That's racist.
3
Not really, though it think you meant speciest, or bigoted. In the gorilla case the boy lived, the gorilla was well loved, and an extremely endangered animal. Right or wrong, it is much easier to get outraged at a family when their child lived but the endangered animal did not.
1
Where on earth does race fit into this? I think the mother at the zoo was vilified horrendously; the parents here have also been vilified in comments. But there are also those among us who feel compassion and grief for BOTH sets of parents and for the animals - and the grief for this little boy is far more acute, as his brief life was cut short tragically.
But I don't think it makes sense to compare the animals involved either. A gorilla who has lived in a zoo habitat for well over a decade is entirely different from an alligator in what is ostensibly - to the alligator if not necessarily to humans - its own natural habitat. A zoo is somewhat prepared, or at least has a protocol to follow in the rare event of an emergency. This lagoon area? Nothing even close - an unarmed lifeguard or parents at the edge of water at night is vastly less capable of helping than a trained and armed zookeeper working within a fenced area.
Furthermore, those alligators were removed because police needed to know if one had consumed the child. It is a terrible, unthinkable tragedy all around - but I completely understand why they handled the alligators they found the way that they did: a small child was missing and presumed dead, and it would be agony for his family to never have found his remains - which is precisely what would've happened if he had been consumed by one of the gators and it was never verified by police.
But I don't think it makes sense to compare the animals involved either. A gorilla who has lived in a zoo habitat for well over a decade is entirely different from an alligator in what is ostensibly - to the alligator if not necessarily to humans - its own natural habitat. A zoo is somewhat prepared, or at least has a protocol to follow in the rare event of an emergency. This lagoon area? Nothing even close - an unarmed lifeguard or parents at the edge of water at night is vastly less capable of helping than a trained and armed zookeeper working within a fenced area.
Furthermore, those alligators were removed because police needed to know if one had consumed the child. It is a terrible, unthinkable tragedy all around - but I completely understand why they handled the alligators they found the way that they did: a small child was missing and presumed dead, and it would be agony for his family to never have found his remains - which is precisely what would've happened if he had been consumed by one of the gators and it was never verified by police.
1
When is an incident like this considered simply an act of nature? If I were attacked by a shark, I wouldn't blame the ocean. If a grizzly came at me, I wouldn't blame the north woods. If my property was devastated by a tornado, I would go to the insurance agent, not sue the state of Missouri. I realize that this happened on private property, but just because we call someplace a resort doesn't mean it can be walled off from every danger in the world.
9
I've lived here in Florida for 35 years. While I agree with your general premise and am an advocate for animal rights, I feel that Disney should have stronger signage letting people know the lakes in their resort is a natural habitat with gators and snakes. They could also have this info on their site considering people are coming from all over the world to visit with small children. There is nothing natural about Disney. It's completely manmade facility. I can see where people from other places would not have the awareness that gators would be in the waterways of the 'Disney Utopia'. It doesn't really conjure up the notion that you are hanging out with nature and it's inhabitants. In fact, it is the exact opposite.
2
this is gonna cost Disney ALOT of money.
1
I think Disney is somewhat negligent not warning its guests about the alligators. Near by resort Shades of Green have warnings posted near there ponds.
8
All Disney had to do was post signs that said:
"Do NOT enter the water - alligators live here."
The boy was not "swimming". So the "no swimming" signs were useless.
Has anyone reported on how many other children were splashing at the edge of the water? Was this child really the only one? Or was he the unlucky one because the sign was so poorly thought out?
"Do NOT enter the water - alligators live here."
The boy was not "swimming". So the "no swimming" signs were useless.
Has anyone reported on how many other children were splashing at the edge of the water? Was this child really the only one? Or was he the unlucky one because the sign was so poorly thought out?
7
The video showed him as the only one. And why is it ok to break the rules? Or teach you kid to break the rules? It was a tragedy that would have been avoided if the had followed the rules of the place they are visiting.
7
I was honestly really, really surprised to hear that a child was splashing in that water. In over 25 trips to WDW, I have never once seen anyone, adult or child, touching that water. It is NASTY. From what I know, Disney restricted people from entering the water (unless by boat, water mouse, ferry, etc) because of the common Florida freshwater problem of toxic algal bloom and toxic bacteria many years ago, not because of gators. Generally, people use the loungers on the beach on occasion, or play beach volleyball, and plenty watch the fireworks and the Electric Water Pageant, but no one uses those beaches as real beaches. There is always too much to do at Disney, and it's not really a chill-at-the-beach kind of place.
In any case, the water is not at all clean. The largest inland boat fleet in the US uses that water on a daily basis to transport thousands of guests to and from the various resort hotels to the theme parks.
In any case, the water is not at all clean. The largest inland boat fleet in the US uses that water on a daily basis to transport thousands of guests to and from the various resort hotels to the theme parks.
8
Has there been a statement from Disney yet?
Immediately. They are devastated, of course. This has been reported on several articles.
1
In our media concentrated world there is always a tendency to cast blame. But we have to remember that sometimes accidents, horrific accidents happen; this is part of the human condition. Mr. Graves is not to blame, Disney is not to blame. Yes learning will come from this tragedy but casting blame is a human's need to make sense of things and in this case, no one is to blame. Prayers of condolences to the Graves family, may we lift them up with our compassion.
5
I think Disney posting "DO NOT go in water - Alligators live here" signs would have gone a long way to avoid this tragedy. That and not creating an inviting beach by that water.
1
There was a "no swimming" sign posted by the lake.
4
Not enough. There should be a 'beware sign, gators lurk in these waters'.
8
I've been to Disney World many times, both on vacation as a kid and more recently with my own child. When you are there, you put your trust in the system...you assume Space Mountain has been checked for mechanical issues, you assume the characters walking around have had background checks, and you make similar assumptions over and over again. This is not an unreasonable thing to do, as Disney is truly one of the most organized and well-planned-out places there is, from queuing, to fast-pass, to the Disney airport shuttle. I've often heard people say, "If only Disney ran the world..."
For all the above reasons, I think it is quite reasonable to assume that tourists would trust that Disney would put up signage about alligators if alligators were present. "No Swimming" signs could simply just mean that lifeguards aren't present, so you shouldn't swim. (Wading is ok, though.) Disney TRULY messed up on this one, and tragic consequences ensued. Nothing will bring this child back, but hopefully Disney will make some major changes so this terrible and sad occurrence won't happen again. Disney, I'm ashamed of you!
For all the above reasons, I think it is quite reasonable to assume that tourists would trust that Disney would put up signage about alligators if alligators were present. "No Swimming" signs could simply just mean that lifeguards aren't present, so you shouldn't swim. (Wading is ok, though.) Disney TRULY messed up on this one, and tragic consequences ensued. Nothing will bring this child back, but hopefully Disney will make some major changes so this terrible and sad occurrence won't happen again. Disney, I'm ashamed of you!
12
Of course a no swimming sign could also mean polluted water or some other dangerous condition.
2
It could mean a lot of things and is vague enough to be left up to individual interpretation. Something more specific, notifying of the precise dangers, would have obviously been better. For example, Disney could have done what they do on the lagoon side of Cancun, Mexico. Multiple signs about alligator presence align the walking path next to the water, next to the fence.
2
I live in the Lowcountry in South Carolina and whenever you go into a public park here, there are usually alligator warning signs near ponds. It took me about 3 months of living (and hiking) after moving here to realize that if you're near a pond or water filled ditch anywhere south of the South Carolina/N. Carolina border, you're near alligators.
But visitors from Nebraska wouldn't know that and shouldn't be expected to. Disney World was utterly irresponsible in not putting up signs warning of alligator danger, especially at this time of year (mating, feeding). And night time (9:00 pm) is when alligators feed and are most active after the heat of the day.
I choose not to believe Disney when they say they've never had an incident before. It may not have been publicized or fatal, but there had to be occasional alligator sightings and interaction with staff or visitors in the past 30 years. If you look at the map of interconnecting lakes and ponds that fronts the hotel in question, there is no doubt there are likely hundreds of alligators in those bodies of water. I'm sure you'll see pictures posted in coming days.
I don't know what kind of defensive measures Disney has for preventing alligator infiltration of these resort ponds, but its almost impossible to keep them out of any body of water in the warm months in the coastal southern states.
But visitors from Nebraska wouldn't know that and shouldn't be expected to. Disney World was utterly irresponsible in not putting up signs warning of alligator danger, especially at this time of year (mating, feeding). And night time (9:00 pm) is when alligators feed and are most active after the heat of the day.
I choose not to believe Disney when they say they've never had an incident before. It may not have been publicized or fatal, but there had to be occasional alligator sightings and interaction with staff or visitors in the past 30 years. If you look at the map of interconnecting lakes and ponds that fronts the hotel in question, there is no doubt there are likely hundreds of alligators in those bodies of water. I'm sure you'll see pictures posted in coming days.
I don't know what kind of defensive measures Disney has for preventing alligator infiltration of these resort ponds, but its almost impossible to keep them out of any body of water in the warm months in the coastal southern states.
100
See my post upstream; Mom and I had a near-miss in the 70's with two gators in Busch Gardens.
1
I grew up in New York and my first visit to Florida as a twenty-something adult I knew that any body of water could have an alligator in it. If I go to Yellowstone I know to be careful because bears could be nearby. If I am in the country anywhere in the United States, wild cats such as bobcats could be in the area.
Geographical dangers exist in different parts of the country, in different parts of the world. Common sense prevails when it comes to outdoor safety, particularly in obvious areas such as any body of water in Florida.
Geographical dangers exist in different parts of the country, in different parts of the world. Common sense prevails when it comes to outdoor safety, particularly in obvious areas such as any body of water in Florida.
On disboards.com, there are posts from the last few years about folks seeing alligators in the Seven Seas Lagoon
I need instructions from the animal rights people on how to feel about alligators and great apes.
The sign said No Swimming. It did not say No Wading or No Splashing at the Water's Edge.
Communication fail.
Communication fail.
8
This is a freak accident. Disney isn't "at fault" and the parents aren't "at fault". This was a random, cruel act of nature, and the child was in the wrong place at the wrong time. Disney, being a class organization, will pay the family because that's what a classy organization does. I'm pretty sure Disney will also implement new protocol in monitoring and addressing the issue of alligators.
5
My search for "florida vacation" yielded many citations of sites promoting tourism. One site showed pictures of an alligator in its promotion of the Everglades.
My search for "florida danger" produced a number of sites, one of which is from the Orlando Sentinel. That site reports "Between 1948 and November 2012, a total of 344 people were bitten by an alligator without provoking it and of those 344 bites, 22 were fatal...". It also shows Vibrio vulnificus, a flesh-eating bacterium which can be contracted from swimming, and Naegleria fowleri a.k.a. the brain-eating amoeba which "lurks in warm water". No wonder there were No Swimming signs at the pond.
But who is going to search for "florida danger"?
My search for "florida danger" produced a number of sites, one of which is from the Orlando Sentinel. That site reports "Between 1948 and November 2012, a total of 344 people were bitten by an alligator without provoking it and of those 344 bites, 22 were fatal...". It also shows Vibrio vulnificus, a flesh-eating bacterium which can be contracted from swimming, and Naegleria fowleri a.k.a. the brain-eating amoeba which "lurks in warm water". No wonder there were No Swimming signs at the pond.
But who is going to search for "florida danger"?
4
As a native born Floridian, the danger is completely transparent. A body of water, any body of water that isn't completely salty, will have alligators. Alligators were on the brink of extinction when I was a child due to poaching and the illegal skin trade, but those days are gone and there's lots of alligators.
I feel terrible for the family and perhaps Disney was remiss in not signing the lake NO SWIMMING/ALLIGATORS but Florida is a haven for dangerous animals, plants and humans. Respect and caution should've been applied here.
I feel terrible for the family and perhaps Disney was remiss in not signing the lake NO SWIMMING/ALLIGATORS but Florida is a haven for dangerous animals, plants and humans. Respect and caution should've been applied here.
12
My condolences to the family.
10
WDW should have posted a sign warning guests of the danger of an occasional alligator. While the chance of being attacked by an alligator are one in 2.4 million; the vacation resort draws tourists world-wide and Disney must assume that their guests have no clue about the environment they are vacationing in. Alligators are in all fresh water bodies of water in our beautiful State--no matter how small the body of water is. Alligators frequently seek sun on the banks of my neighborhood retention pond and I have also seen them crossing the lanes of traffic to move from pond to pond at my neighborhood Westfield Town Center Mall. As we continue to encroach on their territory with more and more development we should respect them as well as human life--a simple warning sign would do both.
10
When I was little we used to go to Sanibel Island in Florida for Christmas. We camped next to a canal where every morning and evening, like clockwork, an alligator would go swimming by. We enjoyed the sight very much. This was a devastating act of God, like a tornado. No one was to blame, not the parents, not Disney. Why do people always have to lash out after these things happen?
8
Sorry this happened. My thoughts go out to the family. I am also sorry that human trash like Disneyworld et al have done a billion times worse to animals and their environments. Human stupidity is to blame.
8
Having lived in Orlando for 20 years, I have seen places that have warning signs about gators, and still people will go in the water, or worse, feed and provoke the gators. I was just in the exact location that this occurred a few days ago. The signs are very clear.
This is a tragedy, and I feel for the family. I can not imagine losing a child.
The reality is that you can make accommodations for the environment, but gators, snakes, etc will find their way into any body of water. You can put up fences, and people will still find their way into places they don't belong. I walk my dogs around a lake that is routinely patrolled and gators removed. We still see several every day. Take one out and another appears. The dogs are on a short leash and we keep our distance from the water.
We can not "nerf" coat the world and assume that there is no danger. The tendency to always look around for who to blame is the easy way out. Of course, a lawyer will file a claim, Disney will settle (probably for a much smaller amount than most would assume) and more signs will go up. That won't change things or bring back this child.
This is a tragedy, and I feel for the family. I can not imagine losing a child.
The reality is that you can make accommodations for the environment, but gators, snakes, etc will find their way into any body of water. You can put up fences, and people will still find their way into places they don't belong. I walk my dogs around a lake that is routinely patrolled and gators removed. We still see several every day. Take one out and another appears. The dogs are on a short leash and we keep our distance from the water.
We can not "nerf" coat the world and assume that there is no danger. The tendency to always look around for who to blame is the easy way out. Of course, a lawyer will file a claim, Disney will settle (probably for a much smaller amount than most would assume) and more signs will go up. That won't change things or bring back this child.
87
A sign that said "Danger: Alligators" or "Alligator Present" is not "nerf coating" anything and would be sufficient to encourage people from out of town...those who haven't lived in Orlando for 20 years and have probably never seen an alligator up close...to take precautions.
6
I agree with you Michael, and hopefully Lane did not die in vain. As individuals (especially with small children), we need to remember all the dangers of nature and the wild. I will never gaze into a murky lake of water the same. My sincere condolences to the parents of little Lane. I can only imagine how Disney is reacting...let us learn from this and not condemn others.
1
First, great and unqualified sorrow and sadness for the family. Second, the world is wild. Our expectations that it is predictably tame and safe are delusions of our own making.
I took my children(now grown)to the Grand Floridian Resort twice in 1988 and 1992 . I never thought about alligators or any dangers. If I had to worry about alligators I would have saved the money and stayed home.
3
Here you go!!! This is the reason Disney doesn't have signs that say, "Warning!! Alligators!!" I'm sure they had an accountant do the math and figure out the loss of an occasional guest and the damages paid for that guest eaten by an alligator would be far less than the loss of tourists due to alligators nearby.
Absolutely not the parents fault . They were at safe WDW , WDW makes millions off over inflated pricing of everything. For WDW to allow filthy dangerous cold blooded killers anywhere near families is a complete failure of WDW. Gators are not good for anything but a 22 bullet between the eyes. . They breed like rats. Like killing a snake. They need to hire gator hunters , set traps and kill everyone of those nasty Gators . I hope that poor family hires the best Lawyer they can to own walt Disney world.
4
It is absolutely the parents fault. There is no way to keep alligators out of the water, disney already actively removes any that are large enough to be problematic as soon as they are reported and found. I know when I'm in florida I won't even let my dogs near the water alone when it is part of the water without a lot of people around. To let your 2 year old in a water that late, when there are no swimming signs, and where people don't swim is just ignorant at best or criminal at worst. I hope disney only does what they are morally obligated and pays for the funeral but they will probably do more.
6
Steve, WDW is not "allow[ing] filthy dangerous cold blooded killers anywhere near families." You can debate whether WDW should've designed and built a fully enclosed waterway instead of a hybrid of manmade and natural, but unless you wish to enclose the park within a sealed bubble, or find a way to put up walls without any gates or doors all the way around the park, then any and all visitors to the state of Florida must be aware that alligators may be found in or near virtually any body of fresh water. They exist in their natural habitat - and WE are the ones who have overtaken nearly all of it. They've been here a whole lot longer than we have, and their nature has changed very little.
Build an enormous group of amusement parks and attractions in swamp land, and you WILL have alligators. The average Floridian is well aware of this. Given how relatively uncommon alligator attacks are compared to other risks, how does setting out to slaughter the species make sense??
This was a tragic, senseless, freak accident. Sometimes the unthinkable really does happen. I'm sure WDW will improve their signage and communication about risks. But it is not a failure of WDW to "allow" alligators to roam around in their own habitat, and this grieving family isn't going to "own" WDW. Nor is WDW going to hire trappers to kill all the gators. Period.
Build an enormous group of amusement parks and attractions in swamp land, and you WILL have alligators. The average Floridian is well aware of this. Given how relatively uncommon alligator attacks are compared to other risks, how does setting out to slaughter the species make sense??
This was a tragic, senseless, freak accident. Sometimes the unthinkable really does happen. I'm sure WDW will improve their signage and communication about risks. But it is not a failure of WDW to "allow" alligators to roam around in their own habitat, and this grieving family isn't going to "own" WDW. Nor is WDW going to hire trappers to kill all the gators. Period.
3
My heart goes out to this family. This is a most horrific and almost unimaginable tragedy. It is easy to cast blame on the parents for allowing their child to wade in those waters especially at night when visibility is nil but in this moment, we just need to have compassion and send our thoughts and prayers their way. I am especially concerned about the impact of all this on the little boy's 4 year old sibling who witnessed everything too.
10
Disney is responsible, partly it seems because of the illusion they have created that the beach is a safe area. It is sad that the alligators have been slaughtered when they are simply being alligators. What a stupid self serving decision it was to create a illusory image in an alligator habitat. I don't recall seeing alligators in any Disney movies....
17
There have been alligators inside magic kingdom near Tom Sawyer and splash mountain. Gives a whole new meaning to keeping your hands and feet in the ride.
17
The sign said "No Swimming". Nobody was swimming. The toddler was splashing around at water's edge. If the word "alligator" had been on the sign, this never would have happened. DISNEY IS AT FAULT!
17
The only reasonable meaning of "no swimming" is that you are not supposed to enter the water. While this is tragic, blaming Disney is unfair.
3
"No swimming" means do not go in water.
5
"No swimming" means "no swimming." "Don't go into the water" means "don't go into the water." "Beware of alligators. Do not approach the water" is the sign Disney (and other Florida resorts) need to post. And then they need to fence the water off, for those who ignore signs.
The lawyer said it doesn't look good for Disney. That's because he wants to get his slimy little hands on some of their money. This is a tragedy period. Same as someone getting eaten by a shark.
10
Children under 5 should always be on a leash.
11
Good lord, no. I shudder to think of countless young children being leashed whenever they leave home. This may be one tragic case in which leashing would've made a difference, but that does not mean all under-5s should be leashed. Most childhood exploration and discovery is valuable and vital - a tragedy like this is far outside the norm.
1
I have read, for years now, that alligators were going from body of water to body of water in Florida. Those living near development lakes and waterways needed to be alert. After reading this the 90's, I warned my mom to be careful because of the lake behind her house in West Palm, also, not to leave her little dog alone out there.
9
My in-laws live in a pre-planned community miles from Orlando with a lake in the middle of homes and a golf course. Of course no one goes near the lake since who knows what's in it. But Disney caters to people who do not live in Florida and alligators are to be found in a book or perhaps a zoo. Disney created a hazardous atmosphere and should be held liable for it. In fact, there is more security on lines waiting for rides than there probably was near this "lagoon". It is incomprehensible that Disney could ever be so slipshod in their care of guests but I guess the incomprehensible happens.
13
Of course there should be warning signs: Warning: Alligators Here.
24
I just reviewed the article's photos again... there is a CHAIR in the water, positioned just the way one does at the beach when surf fishing in the evening.
My interpretation of a "No Swimming" sign, in light of there being an apparent acceptance of SITTING in the water, would have been that I should not get in the way of boats, not step on anything I couldn't see underwater, not take a chance on an errant tide yanking me out to sea (I'm just an ignorant Mid-Atlantic beachgoer, with no inland lagoon experience). Surely the location of the chair would have put a small child at risk for a gator attack. Positioning it there, or allowing it to remain there, implies that it's an acceptable practice and that it's okay to hang out in the shallows.
I realize the photo is probably showing a neighboring resort's piece of the beach, but it would have been visible to Disney's guests.
By the way, everything each of us writes in the Comments section is going to be scoured and scavenged for use by lawyers on both sides in making their cases...file your copyrights now...
My interpretation of a "No Swimming" sign, in light of there being an apparent acceptance of SITTING in the water, would have been that I should not get in the way of boats, not step on anything I couldn't see underwater, not take a chance on an errant tide yanking me out to sea (I'm just an ignorant Mid-Atlantic beachgoer, with no inland lagoon experience). Surely the location of the chair would have put a small child at risk for a gator attack. Positioning it there, or allowing it to remain there, implies that it's an acceptable practice and that it's okay to hang out in the shallows.
I realize the photo is probably showing a neighboring resort's piece of the beach, but it would have been visible to Disney's guests.
By the way, everything each of us writes in the Comments section is going to be scoured and scavenged for use by lawyers on both sides in making their cases...file your copyrights now...
6
The chair is on the sand
3
I think you are mistaken; the chair appears to be several feet from the water.
But an alligator could reach that chair in less than two seconds.
Your point stands.
But an alligator could reach that chair in less than two seconds.
Your point stands.
2
There was no sign indicating alligators because that would be too scary to the tourists.
2
I agree with those who are shocked that a child could die by an animal attack at Disney World. A reasonable person would expect complete safety alongside the lagoon where the attack occurred. Shame on Disney.
15
Yes, let's make the world completely safe for everyone. Start by exterminating all the gators, mountain lions, grizzly bears, rattlesnakes, wolves, tigers ...
3
What horrific sadness, and every parent's' worst fear, and millions of prayers for this family.
Some random thoughts: My wife is a 7th generation land locked Vermonter and this morning she said that she knows Florida is full of poisonous snakes and alligators. I know that alligators are at their fastest from shallow water's edge to shore and that they do it in the early evening, I'm from the northeast. Others here can blame all they want but signs are merely reminders when you are in unfamiliar places. Our kids were little ones back in the days when they put missing children's pictures on milk cartons. In the Atlanta airport terminal years ago my 4 yr. old son said, "Daddy are there any strangers here?" A gorilla, an alligator, a human... it's a wild world and we cannot control everything, though we sure wish we could. Prayers for peace and solace for this family. It could be any of us. No blame.
Some random thoughts: My wife is a 7th generation land locked Vermonter and this morning she said that she knows Florida is full of poisonous snakes and alligators. I know that alligators are at their fastest from shallow water's edge to shore and that they do it in the early evening, I'm from the northeast. Others here can blame all they want but signs are merely reminders when you are in unfamiliar places. Our kids were little ones back in the days when they put missing children's pictures on milk cartons. In the Atlanta airport terminal years ago my 4 yr. old son said, "Daddy are there any strangers here?" A gorilla, an alligator, a human... it's a wild world and we cannot control everything, though we sure wish we could. Prayers for peace and solace for this family. It could be any of us. No blame.
13
Disney should have information letting people know of the possiblility that alligators could attack them. They should also let people know the fact that there are alligators around there.
If you go to Disneyland do you really expect to be killed by an alligator? You go there to have fun, not die.
Disney is negligent, and I'd sue them for 100,000,000 dollars to start with.
If you go to Disneyland do you really expect to be killed by an alligator? You go there to have fun, not die.
Disney is negligent, and I'd sue them for 100,000,000 dollars to start with.
9
Why just Disney? The state of Florida should make all visitors sign a consent form acknowledging there are dangerous animals in the state.
2
So they killed five gators. In Florida. Reminds me of killing the sharks when something happens on an Australian beach. Predatory animals, what a nuisance to us holidaymakers. Wipe them out so we can all enjoy being ourselves more safely.
11
Maybe, to quote Dickens, the 'surplus population' isn't the one going about its natural business in the waterways?
7
Re 'natural business in the waterways' (or mountains, deserts, etc): I simply think that most of us as humans have a detached view of nature and our environment. We expect things to work according to our needs and expectations and are shocked when they don't. Everytime I see someone with their eyes glued to a smartphone screen when walking, even in busy urban areas, I can't keep myself from thinking that the danger these people expose themselves to voluntarily in somewhat biological, even though it won't be a shark, gator or avalanche but a car that could easily end a life. Children have a much lesser awareness of this, however, which is why they are so vulnerable and need us adults to guide them, hopefully, safely.
2
I understand that wildlife officials are vowing to hunt down and kill the alligator. This animal was following its instinct and is not the culprit in this case. To find a culprit, one needs to look at the Disney Corporation which set up a situation bound eventually to end in tragedy.
17
I agree 100%. Once again the animal loses. The alligator was only following instinct. What will killing it achieve? Disney is to blame not the alligator for god's sake!! I feel badly for the family and the little boy who had his life taken away before it even got started.
4
Anybody thinking of Bernard & Bianca, the rescuers? I am a timid person, I heard a lot about Florida and Alligators, but until now I believed these alligators in the movie overdone, and no way they walk over land and are so swift. I have certainly learnt from this accident, and I feel for the parents, this is like a horror movie.
3
Never underestimate the ability of one of Earth's oldest predators.
Alligators can move very fast, in short bursts.
They catch prey at water's edge by lunging out of the water.
Here's a video of one throwing itself back into water:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=laP5-YQlw6c
Alligators can move very fast, in short bursts.
They catch prey at water's edge by lunging out of the water.
Here's a video of one throwing itself back into water:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=laP5-YQlw6c
2
When living in Florida I was alerted several times by neighbors living on the other side of the street and bordering to a golf course: come over and look at this beautiful exemplar of an alligator sitting close to hole X. It was always a pleasure to see these magnificent animals being more than 10 foot long. Everybody took care of this fact, respected the animal and so never an accident happened.
8
I apologize if this has already been said... First, my heart goes out to this family. It's a tragic loss beyond compare.
I wonder why we feel the need to blame anyone? The child was doing what children do... exploring his environment. The alligators were doing what they do... populating an environment conducive to breeding and living and protecting it. Disney provided a lovely setting and posted signs. The family was doing what we hope all families have the opportunity to do, gathering, enjoying each other and keeping an eye on their children...
The point being that Mother Nature is not always kind and these sorts of horrid events happen all day, every day. This is not to "write off" the family's grief, just to say that our need to point fingers is fairly useless. It breeds despair, anger and the litigious society in which we live.
Let's
I wonder why we feel the need to blame anyone? The child was doing what children do... exploring his environment. The alligators were doing what they do... populating an environment conducive to breeding and living and protecting it. Disney provided a lovely setting and posted signs. The family was doing what we hope all families have the opportunity to do, gathering, enjoying each other and keeping an eye on their children...
The point being that Mother Nature is not always kind and these sorts of horrid events happen all day, every day. This is not to "write off" the family's grief, just to say that our need to point fingers is fairly useless. It breeds despair, anger and the litigious society in which we live.
Let's
21
Litigation often results in corrective action. Why did this family not know that alligators were present? Perhaps Disney should have had signage clearly stating this fact. How much would that have cost? I realize the signage might have been a little too reality based for the atmosphere Disney strives to create but nothing takes the sheen off a Magic Kingdom like the needless and preventable death of an innocent child. I can only imagine the level of grief this family is and will continue to endure for a long time. I can only hope they will recover as a family and find some normalcy. Disney must accept accountability for their choice not to post clear signage about the danger. I cannot believe that someone at Disney did not raise the issue and now is biting his or her lip not to say "I told you this could happen."
There are well over a million alligators Florida, but just two alligator related human deaths in Florida prior to this one in the past ten years (and never a fatal alligator attack at Disney). As horrible as this is, it really wasn't reasonably foreseeable. It's far more likely that a visitor to Disney will be struck by lightning or will contract the Zika virus. Should Disney be papered with signs warning of those risks and dozens of others that are more significant than an alligator attack? Should Disney be required to erect thousands of lightning rods and engage in a massive mosquito eradication program? Maybe both Disney and the child's parents are not quite so blameworthy.
11
I disagree. I lived in Florida for years and everyone there knows that you don't go wading or swimming in inland bodies of water or rivers, because they're inhabited by alligators and snakes. But none of the resorts make this information known to tourists, because that would scare them. So they post "no swimming" signs, but still encourage a "beach" atmosphere and don't sufficiently warn people why they shouldn't go into the water. Many people are thus lured into thinking it must be safe.
7
I foresee a huge settlement with the family, lots of new signage, and a renewed understanding among people that we still have large, non-human predators in North America.
11
I doubt there will be a renewed understanding. People are stupid.
3
What struck me was that even if one knows there are possibly alligators in bodies of water generally in Florida, an average person might be fooled here: 1) there was a well manicured sandy beach next to the water; 2) there were no warning signs about alligators on the beach; and 3) you are at a Disney Resort which is full of children so you would perhaps assume that Disney wouldn't have killer reptiles wandering around - I think that is a reasonable assumption.
31
Terrible tragedy. Won't bring back the little boy, but definitely a civil lawsuit (against someone) here -- likely Disney -- for legal negligence.
Spent some time in FL (Pratt & Whitney). We had big 'gators coming up to us at lunchtime, from the large pond near the cafeteria. They are anywhere there is water.
So...this was a "foreseeable" event -- that there would be alligators in the Disney pond -- and that a child might be playing nearby. Shoulda been a *very* prominent sign to disclose such. "Lack of reasonable care" on the part of Disney, IMO.
Parents were from Nebraska. Wouldn't expect them to know about such dangers. Maybe.
Spent some time in FL (Pratt & Whitney). We had big 'gators coming up to us at lunchtime, from the large pond near the cafeteria. They are anywhere there is water.
So...this was a "foreseeable" event -- that there would be alligators in the Disney pond -- and that a child might be playing nearby. Shoulda been a *very* prominent sign to disclose such. "Lack of reasonable care" on the part of Disney, IMO.
Parents were from Nebraska. Wouldn't expect them to know about such dangers. Maybe.
9
A two year old could, at best, frolic ankle or knee deep. In my mind, that is not swimming. Perhaps: Stay Out of Water would have been better.
Regardless, my heart goes out to the parents, who will no doubt harbor guilt the rest of their lives.
Regardless, my heart goes out to the parents, who will no doubt harbor guilt the rest of their lives.
17
It could be that the parents fell to a refined interpretation of "No Swimming", assuming they saw a sign. Their son was not swimming; he was wading near the shore. Perhaps the parents thought the sign was intended to keep people out of the pond to avoid problems with liability. Surely the parents did not think of alligators coming out of the pond.
The pond is an attractive nuisance, which opens legal issues.
The pond is an attractive nuisance, which opens legal issues.
13
There are no swimming signs but there is a nice beach with a swing?
9
Yes it is heart breaking for the family. But if there are no swimming signs, as a parent that would be my first clue not to let the child, especially 2 years old near the water edge alone unsupervised. Anything could happen.
6
I wonder if there is an address to help these parents, at least financially, during this time? I hope their family survives this.
4
One has the feeling that Disney will be "helping" these parents financially for decades to come.
4
Disney's own marketing materials (check the website for the Grand Floridian Resort-you will see) encourage their guests to "bask on the white sand beach" and "enjoy the placid waters of the Seven Seas Lagoon". There are lounge chairs right there on that beach. I've stayed there with my family. Why would any guest think something like this could happen given the way this beach was portrayed by Disney?
Anyone who could even contemplate blaming the parents is ignorant of the facts here.
Anyone who could even contemplate blaming the parents is ignorant of the facts here.
17
Tragic, awful, and I'm sorry to say I see Parents strolling around Manhattan all the time with toddlers a few feet behind them. Furthermore, what's a 2 year old doing at Disney? He'll never recall that. Parents simply don't want to ever stay home. They are on the go from birth. If the sign said no swimming, why was the little boy even near the water without his hand being held by a parent?
I see mothers whose babies look as if they were born an hour ago, yet there they are, in line to get on a tour bus around Manhattan.
I see mothers whose babies look as if they were born an hour ago, yet there they are, in line to get on a tour bus around Manhattan.
11
Is this really the time for the "how can parents do things I wouldn't do" blame game? Maybe mothers need to get to the store or work? (You must be aware of how limited childcare and childcare leave options are.)
Moreover, parents learn their childrens' temperaments and learn whether they can be trusted to roam. If you assume that it was obviously dangerous for the toddler to walk where he was walking, that is one thing - but if you believe it is a safe shallow area, and you know your toddler is not prone to bolting, then it doesn't seem so bizarre to allow him to walk. The father was apparently right there.
Moreover - do people who write these self-righteous, all-knowing comments ever think about the impact on the family? Or do they even care?
Moreover, parents learn their childrens' temperaments and learn whether they can be trusted to roam. If you assume that it was obviously dangerous for the toddler to walk where he was walking, that is one thing - but if you believe it is a safe shallow area, and you know your toddler is not prone to bolting, then it doesn't seem so bizarre to allow him to walk. The father was apparently right there.
Moreover - do people who write these self-righteous, all-knowing comments ever think about the impact on the family? Or do they even care?
10
Agree with you, this comment was just cruel. This family will have to live their entire life with guilty. This is just horrible and Disney fault.
4
@another Mom of 2
I understand your point, and I'm not a person who likes to judge quickly nor harshly so. I'm sympathetic. Things happen. Horrible things. But you must understand this is not a condolences book, It's the comments section of the NYT. Opinions of all sorts are welcomed given they are within the guidelines. Offensive opinions to one don't necessarily mean they cross the line of decency.
I'm merely pointing out what I see every day in New York. We are in an era when parents do not want to sacrifice their getting out once they have kids. That's simply fact.
I understand your point, and I'm not a person who likes to judge quickly nor harshly so. I'm sympathetic. Things happen. Horrible things. But you must understand this is not a condolences book, It's the comments section of the NYT. Opinions of all sorts are welcomed given they are within the guidelines. Offensive opinions to one don't necessarily mean they cross the line of decency.
I'm merely pointing out what I see every day in New York. We are in an era when parents do not want to sacrifice their getting out once they have kids. That's simply fact.
3
Are you kidding me! Disney invites people..children of all ages in particular... from all over the world to enjoy their luxurious resort facilities knowing full well that alligators lurk only feet from their door.........And they don't tell anybody about it!!!! That is Criminal Negligence and it should be prosecuted.
No Swimming Sign, really! To me that means there's no lifeguard on duty. Or perhaps the water is polluted. No way does it inform anyone that just by standing at the water's edge that you could lose life and limb!
This poor, unsuspecting, devastated family.... words are impossible to formulate to grasp their profound grief and loss. Their lives will forever be destroyed all because Disney preferred to put profits over common sense & the safety for their Guests!
There is no monetary compensation that could ever replace this poor child. Disney executives are responsible for this and they should be held personally responsible and charged in a criminal court of law.
No Swimming Sign, really! To me that means there's no lifeguard on duty. Or perhaps the water is polluted. No way does it inform anyone that just by standing at the water's edge that you could lose life and limb!
This poor, unsuspecting, devastated family.... words are impossible to formulate to grasp their profound grief and loss. Their lives will forever be destroyed all because Disney preferred to put profits over common sense & the safety for their Guests!
There is no monetary compensation that could ever replace this poor child. Disney executives are responsible for this and they should be held personally responsible and charged in a criminal court of law.
14
My parents were always very clear to us what to look out for, at parks, fairs, the beach, etc. I was always aware to be careful. If we went to a fair, my father would always say, if you get lost, we will meet at 3:00 at the entrance sign. He always understood the dangers and in turn, I understood. So, even if we did get lost, there was a plan. I think some parents don't lay this out. You need to tell your kids the dangers, they will listen if you are earnest. My heart goes out to this family.
4
Sadly, there are so many parents who are not as intelligent as your father.
5
Sally,
It is wonderful that your parents involved you in their understanding of the dangers of the real world. "I was always [made] aware to be careful." I think that statement would be valid for many, if not most, children down to the age of what - five? Lane Graves was a 2-year-old. His photo shows a happy, alert boy who could have been precociously like perhaps a 3-year-old. In any event, there is no way even a 3-year-old could understand the concept of being "careful" - no matter how the parents tried to explain it. I'm sure these parents thought that it was perfectly safe for Lane to splash his feet in the shallows - and it should have been.
Unfortunately, the onus is on them as caretakers for Lane, and they will never - ever - forget this. I feel sad for Lane's sister, as she is likely to have to bear the brunt of her parents' guilt, which will probably lead to an extreme of over-protectiveness as a result. I think the Graveses would benefit not only from grief counseling, but help in understanding that their daughter deserves to be able to explore her world without fear.
It is wonderful that your parents involved you in their understanding of the dangers of the real world. "I was always [made] aware to be careful." I think that statement would be valid for many, if not most, children down to the age of what - five? Lane Graves was a 2-year-old. His photo shows a happy, alert boy who could have been precociously like perhaps a 3-year-old. In any event, there is no way even a 3-year-old could understand the concept of being "careful" - no matter how the parents tried to explain it. I'm sure these parents thought that it was perfectly safe for Lane to splash his feet in the shallows - and it should have been.
Unfortunately, the onus is on them as caretakers for Lane, and they will never - ever - forget this. I feel sad for Lane's sister, as she is likely to have to bear the brunt of her parents' guilt, which will probably lead to an extreme of over-protectiveness as a result. I think the Graveses would benefit not only from grief counseling, but help in understanding that their daughter deserves to be able to explore her world without fear.
2
This type of forum is what might be found in the National Enquirer.
But on the New York Times?
But on the New York Times?
1
The child was not swimming; he was wading. There is absolutely no excuse for Disney. I am going to a resort on this lagoon later this year with my 2 young children, and we will not be going near the lagoon. To the Graves family- I want you to know that this incident and the lawsuit that you will hopefully be able to contemplate as you climb out of the initial, crippling grief, will save other families from enduring a similar loss. This incident will change safety policies everywhere there is wildlife, not just Disney World.
This plus the gorilla incident - toddlers and life-threatening wildlife do not mix. Parents cannot be physically attached to their toddlers every second.
This plus the gorilla incident - toddlers and life-threatening wildlife do not mix. Parents cannot be physically attached to their toddlers every second.
9
I agree they need signs so that parents understand why there is no swimming and for that matter to be wading or even hanging out at the edges of a lake. Also too, gators often prey at night.
2
A wildlife warning - snakes and alligators - should have been posted. However, as we've seen in the recent incidents in National Parks, warning signs are posted for a reason. If the parents had obeyed the "no swimming" sign, this tragedy would not have happened.
5
Here's the question I sent to Disney's web-site, since CNBC didn't address this important question in doing their puff-piece on the new and wonderful expansion to China of Disney's global fun business (and since CNBC itself does not allow any comments on their insufferably pro-corporate shilling news stories):
"CNBC's Eunice Yoo gave a great report in general, but she did not apparently ask nor report whether Disney in China is going to import American alligators or local crocodiles in your new Global Capitalist Empire theme park --- which since it might provide additional employment for American alligator trappers would be a great boost to the American economy and thus should be proudly reported here in the U.S. HQ of the Empire, by your supplicant friends at NBC (nothing but commercials)."
Just askin,
Alan MacDonald
Disney Fan
"CNBC's Eunice Yoo gave a great report in general, but she did not apparently ask nor report whether Disney in China is going to import American alligators or local crocodiles in your new Global Capitalist Empire theme park --- which since it might provide additional employment for American alligator trappers would be a great boost to the American economy and thus should be proudly reported here in the U.S. HQ of the Empire, by your supplicant friends at NBC (nothing but commercials)."
Just askin,
Alan MacDonald
Disney Fan
3
Before I would be willing to say for sure that this was actually an alligator attack, I would: 1) want to be sure that the autopsy showed signs of an alligator attack on the boy and 2) want assurances from the other witnesses they they actually saw the boy being dragged by the alligator - not just the two parents thrashing around in the water and yelling. Cynical? Perhaps, but remember, they are now slaughtering all of the alligators in this lagoon!
5
Why is the NY Times allowing comments on this article? A toddler being killed by an alligator is a tragedy, why allow comments? What sort of personal insight can be gleaned from reading victim shaming comments? However, there are multiple articles that address public policy, such as guns, immigration, jobs, most of those articles don't have comment sections--why?
18
West Coast Best Coast: Yes, this is a terrible tragedy. I am not for blaming or shaming anyone in this situation nor have I done so but you don't shut down discourse because something is a tragedy.
5
I have only visited Florida a few times, but that is enough for me to know alligators are widespread and dangerous.
8
Crocs and gators are smart, patient hunters that rely on surprise lunges at unwitting large prey at the water's edge.
I don't recall signs at every body of water when traveling through northern Australia, but everyone was very aware and cautious of the life-threatening danger.
So should people in Florida. This death was negligence on the culture of the area -- a lazy, dismissive attitude toward a large, dangerous predator.
I don't recall signs at every body of water when traveling through northern Australia, but everyone was very aware and cautious of the life-threatening danger.
So should people in Florida. This death was negligence on the culture of the area -- a lazy, dismissive attitude toward a large, dangerous predator.
9
Just to remind us that we are also prey...
1
Horrible horrible event. That family, and especially the poor father who tried to rescue his son, will never fully recover from this.
"No swimming" signs were clearly insufficient warning. In Florida, if there is water, there are alligators. The lake should have been drained, or enclosed by a fence.
"No swimming" signs were clearly insufficient warning. In Florida, if there is water, there are alligators. The lake should have been drained, or enclosed by a fence.
10
"That alligator never should have been in that water."
Really? Are alligators supposed to realize their natural habitats are now encroaching on human resort land, and abandon them thusly? I realize the point is that Disney should have been monitoring their waters, but come on. It's a lagoon in Southern FL. What do you think lives in the water there?
Humans have a nasty blind spot when it comes to the natural order of things, constantly putting ourselves at the top and disregarding the legitimacy of other life. An alligator is a predator, and it is not "wrong" of it to go after prey, just because it went for a human instead of a turtle. Humans are the only ones assigning greater worth to the death of our own kind. The alligator doesn't know the difference. I agree it's a horrible tragedy, but it's nature.
We killed 5 (innocent) alligators in response to this tragedy. It got one sentence in the article. Let's stop taking our status in the animal kingdom as gospel.
Really? Are alligators supposed to realize their natural habitats are now encroaching on human resort land, and abandon them thusly? I realize the point is that Disney should have been monitoring their waters, but come on. It's a lagoon in Southern FL. What do you think lives in the water there?
Humans have a nasty blind spot when it comes to the natural order of things, constantly putting ourselves at the top and disregarding the legitimacy of other life. An alligator is a predator, and it is not "wrong" of it to go after prey, just because it went for a human instead of a turtle. Humans are the only ones assigning greater worth to the death of our own kind. The alligator doesn't know the difference. I agree it's a horrible tragedy, but it's nature.
We killed 5 (innocent) alligators in response to this tragedy. It got one sentence in the article. Let's stop taking our status in the animal kingdom as gospel.
13
Exactly.
So tired of the knee-jerk assumption that any slaughter is justified if it makes humans marginally safer. We can destroy habitat, cause immense suffering to wildlife (see the wildfires caused by overdevelopment and siphoning off of natural water supplies out west; how'd you like to be a chimpmunk, deer or raccoon caught in those conflagrations? millions die that way every year thanks to humans) and now arbitrarily kill native species just so the kiddies and parents don't have to be inconvenienced by staying in designated play areas and actually obeying signage.
So tired of the knee-jerk assumption that any slaughter is justified if it makes humans marginally safer. We can destroy habitat, cause immense suffering to wildlife (see the wildfires caused by overdevelopment and siphoning off of natural water supplies out west; how'd you like to be a chimpmunk, deer or raccoon caught in those conflagrations? millions die that way every year thanks to humans) and now arbitrarily kill native species just so the kiddies and parents don't have to be inconvenienced by staying in designated play areas and actually obeying signage.
7
The family was "nearby on a beach"--how many feet away? Did the beach flank the water? Was the boy in the water at the time of the attack? The answer to these would tell us a lot about whether the resort created an environment that invited unwitting people into dangerous situations. It would also tell us if the parents were irresponsible. I agree with many comments here regarding the international nature of guests, their inability to predict the likely presence of alligators and their need for education on local wildlife and the threat they pose.
2
There is a big difference between "No Swimming" and "No Swimming: Beware of Alligators". From all reports I've read, the child was not swimming, perhaps at that age could not swim. Why is it up to the visitor to be aware that there may be alligators on a beach owned, operated and enclosed on Disney property?
Some commenters argue that guests should be aware that there are alligators in Florida. Does that mean that we are to assume that there are alligators on the resort property itself? I also wonder what is the purpose of putting alligators in their waters to begin with? Fake Disney Robo-Gators I could understand, but real alligators? With no barrier between them and the public? Talk about experiencing a real-life adventure.
I have never been to Disney World and have no desire to go there, but if I were planning a trip there or to any first-class resort I would expect to be informed of any possible dangers, even if there was the slightest chance there might be an alligator on the beach where I and my children have access to.
I am not a lawyer and have no intention of arguing the validity of lawsuits. I am just trying to find some common sense solutions to this tragedy so that something like this may be prevented in the future.
DD
Manhattan
Some commenters argue that guests should be aware that there are alligators in Florida. Does that mean that we are to assume that there are alligators on the resort property itself? I also wonder what is the purpose of putting alligators in their waters to begin with? Fake Disney Robo-Gators I could understand, but real alligators? With no barrier between them and the public? Talk about experiencing a real-life adventure.
I have never been to Disney World and have no desire to go there, but if I were planning a trip there or to any first-class resort I would expect to be informed of any possible dangers, even if there was the slightest chance there might be an alligator on the beach where I and my children have access to.
I am not a lawyer and have no intention of arguing the validity of lawsuits. I am just trying to find some common sense solutions to this tragedy so that something like this may be prevented in the future.
DD
Manhattan
5
I don't think Disney put the alligators in the water; the alligators naturally find their way to open water.
I think a perfectly reasonable solution would have been a sign alerting people to alligators, like you mentioned.
I think a perfectly reasonable solution would have been a sign alerting people to alligators, like you mentioned.
2
Suggestions:
For the sanctimonious you know whats who love to tell people about correct behavior, proper parenting, etc. , let me tell you that the correct response to a tragedy like this is humility and compassion. Unless the parents demonstrated egregious negligence, eg locking a toddler in a car for a couple hours in the Florida sun, or outright abuse, it is not their fault. Everyone has had close calls and but for the Grace of God...
For those who insist that a toddler's hand be held at all times- unless you are handcuffed, a alligator will easily whisk a kid out of your grasp.
Learn English. "No Swimming" does not mean, don't get near the water.
For the animals have equal rights to live crowd, understand that each day of your continued existence rests on the death of animals even if you are vegan. Life is supported by death. Consider what you really believe and act accordingly.
For the alligator wrestlers- take a trip to the Glades and put it on You Tube. Seeing is believing.
For those who never let their eyes leave their children- get a life and sock money away for the kids' future therapy bills.
For those who go on about the well known dangers of Florida's wildlife, visit Disney and tell me if you still think you are in Florida.
For the I would never expose my kids to any hazard crowd-don't complain if something happens to your kid in school. Schools are extremely hazardous places so put your money where your mouth is and home school.
For the sanctimonious you know whats who love to tell people about correct behavior, proper parenting, etc. , let me tell you that the correct response to a tragedy like this is humility and compassion. Unless the parents demonstrated egregious negligence, eg locking a toddler in a car for a couple hours in the Florida sun, or outright abuse, it is not their fault. Everyone has had close calls and but for the Grace of God...
For those who insist that a toddler's hand be held at all times- unless you are handcuffed, a alligator will easily whisk a kid out of your grasp.
Learn English. "No Swimming" does not mean, don't get near the water.
For the animals have equal rights to live crowd, understand that each day of your continued existence rests on the death of animals even if you are vegan. Life is supported by death. Consider what you really believe and act accordingly.
For the alligator wrestlers- take a trip to the Glades and put it on You Tube. Seeing is believing.
For those who never let their eyes leave their children- get a life and sock money away for the kids' future therapy bills.
For those who go on about the well known dangers of Florida's wildlife, visit Disney and tell me if you still think you are in Florida.
For the I would never expose my kids to any hazard crowd-don't complain if something happens to your kid in school. Schools are extremely hazardous places so put your money where your mouth is and home school.
32
Thank you for the well thought out comment.
2
This says it all. Thank you.
4
For those who lecture the rest of us on how we should think, feel or opine - save your breath.
8
Disney likes to cultivate an image that their parks are perfectly safe, sanitized spaces, engineered for maximum fun (and profit!) But they failed to take into consideration the fact that life will find a way.
5
The parents must be in bottomless agony. This tragedy will haunt them forever. Did the "NO SWIMMING" signs include a specific warning about alligators? If the cops found 5 gators in their search for the boy, then obviously the Disney lake is a habitat for wild alligators, and with so many children in the area, let alone adults, it just makes sense any signs would emphasize that warning. If I had my young children at that beach--let alone a toddler with no awareness whatsoever of the danger--and saw such a sign, there's instinctively no way I'd permit them anywhere near the water. Being from Nebraska, where alligators are not part of the natural habitat, perhaps these parents weren't thinking about any danger or even caution, but only the relaxed surroundings and the pleasure of having fun with their kids, and if the posted warning signs did not bring the presence of wild alligators to their attention, they perhaps didn't consider their boy naturally wading at the water's edge (not "swimming") was at all dangerous, until it was too late. My gut feeling is Disney did not want to call attention to the alligators, did not want to create an atmosphere of fear or heightened vigilance, inconsistent with the zeitgeist of DisneyWorld, and so did not mention alligators, let alone emphasize the danger. Tragic accident, yes. Preventable? Very likely. Inevitably, the courts will decide.
9
Florida, particularly Disney et al, strives mightily to present to the masses a pristine version of itself, one in which the wildness of nature has been tamed - minus, of course, for the areas in which it has been contained, for conservation as well as providing a controlled environment in which the natural habitat can be viewed at a supposedly safe distance. The whole image can feel like a mirage. Miles of swamp have been relentlessly conquered and ruthlessly maintained by armies of workers; man-made bodies of water have been created to serve tourism or development. And in the meantime, the ecologically vital waterways and their diverse inhabitants struggle to survive.
Yet nature has a way of reassertimg herself, particularly in an area as fertile as this. Her creatures are also difficult or impossible to control or contain. How many hundreds of vacant, foreclosed, or half-built homes were swallowed up startlingly fast once left to nature? Structures can be built, fences and walls can be raised - but wherevery an opening might exist, nature will resume overtaking her territory. Alligators will continue to lurk in waters, whether naturally made or fashioned by man.
The mirage lulls people into thinking they are safe and secure. Usually, they are. But sometimes, when least expected, it is just a carefully managed illusion, one that leads to complacency even for residents who should know better.
Yet nature has a way of reassertimg herself, particularly in an area as fertile as this. Her creatures are also difficult or impossible to control or contain. How many hundreds of vacant, foreclosed, or half-built homes were swallowed up startlingly fast once left to nature? Structures can be built, fences and walls can be raised - but wherevery an opening might exist, nature will resume overtaking her territory. Alligators will continue to lurk in waters, whether naturally made or fashioned by man.
The mirage lulls people into thinking they are safe and secure. Usually, they are. But sometimes, when least expected, it is just a carefully managed illusion, one that leads to complacency even for residents who should know better.
4
Its hard to visit Florida and not learn about alligators but the photo accompanying the article showing the resort beach with a lounge chair at the water's edge tells it all. This is the ultimate attractive nuisance. The chair and artificial beach invite and give the impression that the park has prepared a safe beach experience.
Even knowing that alligators exist in Florida outsiders do not know that the fake beach they are visiting is in front of an artificial lake that has five, real, presumably hungry, alligators in it.
The artificial scene gives the wrong impression and the park has a duty to ensure that no one is misled by it even if it spoils the impression. The story, as written, leads to the conclusion of negligence by the park not the parents who cannot be expected to know there are five alligators in the 'lake'.
Even knowing that alligators exist in Florida outsiders do not know that the fake beach they are visiting is in front of an artificial lake that has five, real, presumably hungry, alligators in it.
The artificial scene gives the wrong impression and the park has a duty to ensure that no one is misled by it even if it spoils the impression. The story, as written, leads to the conclusion of negligence by the park not the parents who cannot be expected to know there are five alligators in the 'lake'.
12
Vacationing in Florida I remember most two iconic images: pirates and alligators.
It becomes easy to believe both are schlocky gimmicks to sell the state. Eventually one learns one of them is not just a symbol.
It becomes easy to believe both are schlocky gimmicks to sell the state. Eventually one learns one of them is not just a symbol.
1
"Lane Graves was doing what any 2-year-old boy would be doing on a hot Florida evening — splashing around in the shallow waters of a lagoon." Incorrect. Toddlers who live in Florida do not splash around in a lagoon--or any other body of water other than the ocean--especially in the evening, which is the primary feeding time for gators. That's why Disney resorts have pools. When I moved here five years ago from the Midwest, I understood that I should be very careful when walking near ponds, lakes, swampy areas, etc. Perhaps Disney should have had explicit signs along the lagoon warning that gators were in the water. However, I am puzzled as to why anyone would not be aware that Florida is home to over a million gators that travel by land and by water. (A four-foot gator used the crosswalk on a busy street in Palm Coast last week.) I am very sorry for this family.
5
Wow, lots of legal "experts" here. Since they already who's to blame, may be they should contact Disney or the parents and offer their services.
There's a time to judge, and a time to hold one's tongue.
There's a time to judge, and a time to hold one's tongue.
6
Concerned about its family friendly resort image, Disney seemingly avoids mentioning anything about alligators. A family from Nebraska would have no clue that this heavily advertised resort haven for children is located alongside what is basically an aquatic zoo, containing dangerous animals. A zoo with no fences, moats, guards or other safety precautions. No warnings about wildlife either. A stealth aquatic zoo, it's very existence hidden from scrutiny by a company that seems to have made a conscious decision to do so. In years past, the need for alligator warnings was likely brought up by some employee in some meeting. It's likely that Disney managers made a conscious decision not to do so at some point. If this is ever confirmed in court, the impact on Disney would be amplified a dozen fold. Five alligators were pulled from the immediate resort area after only a few hours of searching. Negligence doesn't even begin to describe it.
8
C'mon, people. In what way does "No Swimming" mean "Beware of Alligators?"
15
As a florida resident (miami beach) im i am well aware of the fact that there are alligators everywhere i go to disney 4 times a year average and stay at the disney swan resort. i am shocked that disney world with all the money that it makes and all the technology that we have cannot monitor those lagoons on their many different resort properties for alligators. a simple "no swimming" sign is absolutely NOT SUFFICIENT ENOUGH. Disney is partly to blame because it has to understand that their tourists come from all over and some dont even know florida is alligator land. if i were disney i would team up with the florida wildlife conservation and post proper signs with facts and warnings for potential alligators or attack in many languages. they post a no swimming sign however place nice beach beds and swing sets right by the water? it seems very unclear of exactly what they want visitors to do. i would be like okay sure let me tan or let my kids play around here"". very irresponsible of disney to do that. i do understand that its never happened in the 45 years that disney has been there but it always takes one tragic occurrence to open up everyone's eyes. this is a tragic lost and i cannot fathom the agony that the family must have been through to even have such a horrendous event occur in their vacation. disney wasnt clear enough so its only fair to settle out of court with a few million bucks (very small amount for disney to pay) and post signs up with clear gator warnings.
6
This is a very tragic death.
However, the Editor ought to think about this first sentence. It's inaccurate and seems to be for writing's sake -- not based on reality. Florida kids learn from a young age to steer clear of swamps for this reason precisely, and certainly don't splash around in lagoons.
"Lane Graves was doing what any 2-year-old boy would be doing on a hot Florida evening — splashing around in the shallow waters of a lagoon."
The interesting part of this story is exactly that -- that Disney simply put up "No Swimming" signs at a lake resort that attracts international customers. Most Floridians would understand that alligators could likely be in the swamp, but it's presumptuous to think a family in Nebraska would consider this.
However, the Editor ought to think about this first sentence. It's inaccurate and seems to be for writing's sake -- not based on reality. Florida kids learn from a young age to steer clear of swamps for this reason precisely, and certainly don't splash around in lagoons.
"Lane Graves was doing what any 2-year-old boy would be doing on a hot Florida evening — splashing around in the shallow waters of a lagoon."
The interesting part of this story is exactly that -- that Disney simply put up "No Swimming" signs at a lake resort that attracts international customers. Most Floridians would understand that alligators could likely be in the swamp, but it's presumptuous to think a family in Nebraska would consider this.
8
Yes, people from Nebraska, never heard of alligators. You all can pin the blame on Disney, but those parents let that two year old down. A two year old is completely helpless and is completely reliant on their parents for their safety. The lagoon was fifteen feet deep in spots.
And, for all those commenters who mention how the parents should sue Disney, presumably to get some sort of retribution. A shallow concept if there ever was one.
And, for all those commenters who mention how the parents should sue Disney, presumably to get some sort of retribution. A shallow concept if there ever was one.
Absolutely! I raised a young boy in Florida and one of the first things you have to do there is pound it into your kids' heads that no body of water there is safe. Alligators have been found in swimming pools, golf course water traps, all of the suburban retention ponds--you name it. Most of the time if you stay away from them, they won't bother you. But you have to keep strict control over small pets and children when you're around a body of water in Florida. You always scan for signs of alligators, because they are there! Tourists cannot be expected to know this. That's why the resorts are culpable. They know there are alligators out there. They just don't want to spoil their happy, pristine image by telling anyone.
1
I can't believe that people are blaming these poor parents!
On a beach in most places, no swimming means that there is no lifeguard. A kid splashing next to the water with a parent close by is seen as safe from drowning, which is what I would have assumed the sign was about.
This was a beach, not a wildlife preserve. There was no reason that a family from Omaha would assume that the sign indicated the possible presence of alligators at a Disney resort. Stop adding to the burden of people who just lost a child.
On a beach in most places, no swimming means that there is no lifeguard. A kid splashing next to the water with a parent close by is seen as safe from drowning, which is what I would have assumed the sign was about.
This was a beach, not a wildlife preserve. There was no reason that a family from Omaha would assume that the sign indicated the possible presence of alligators at a Disney resort. Stop adding to the burden of people who just lost a child.
30
Or.. a sudden falloff, bacteria in the water, riptides, strong currents
No swimming does not - nor has it ever in my lifetime - mean alligators.
No swimming does not - nor has it ever in my lifetime - mean alligators.
Disney World was not built around the Seven Seas Lagoon. It is a man made lake that Disney built! The last I knew alligators were around back in the 70's. I think WDW was negligent to build it in the first place. Extremely poor planning from all of the highly educated people that engineered WDW. Who would ever think that it is a good idea to build a lake, in what is supposed to be a family friendly resort!
2
45 years ago perhaps parents kept better track of their kids and obeyed warning signs. Entitlefamilies weren't as prevalent as they are when that complex was designed.
5
1000 bucks says Thomas Scolaro, "partner at the Miami law firm Leesfield Scolaro, who has represented families after alligator attacks elsewhere" volunteered this bit himself... Such a Miami lawyer move to capitalize on a alligator attack.
4
As much as I dislike shyster lawyers, in this case I wish the family finds the very worse vulture possible to inflict enough damage on Disney that they change their cost benefit analysis about proper signage.
This is a tragedy where no one is at fault. The child cannot be faulted for wading in water. The parents cannot be faulted since the threat was FAR from obvious. The alligator was not a fault for, well, being an alligator (this is a rare occurrence).
Maybe Disney is at fault for not making the risk more apparent? But, again, nothing like this EVER happened before.
Maybe Disney is at fault for not making the risk more apparent? But, again, nothing like this EVER happened before.
4
Alligator attacks have, in fact, happened before at Disney World, in their Fort Wilderness Park, in 1986. The victim was Paul Santamaria, who was standing at the water's edge when he was attacked by a gator. He survived. Look it up; google it.
http://boston.cbslocal.com/2016/06/15/nh-man-recalls-alligator-attack-di...
http://boston.cbslocal.com/2016/06/15/nh-man-recalls-alligator-attack-di...
What managers of a "family-oriented" company could not conceive that alligators in un-barricaded water would not emerge on to a beach?
What mangers would think a sign of "no swimming" would be sufficient warning to patrons?
What managers could or would not foresee such an eventuality as befell this toddler---45-year non-occurrence reported history not withstanding?
What mangers would think a sign of "no swimming" would be sufficient warning to patrons?
What managers could or would not foresee such an eventuality as befell this toddler---45-year non-occurrence reported history not withstanding?
4
Facts:
1) Supposedly there was a sign saying "NO SWIMMING". The toddler was NOT SWIMMING in the water at the time of incident, he was wading AT THE EDGE; by what logic does ANYBODY consider this equivalent to swimming?
2) Do you think for one second that the parents would have let their child wade at the edge of the water if instead of a sign saying "NO SWIMMING", there had been a sign saying "BEWARE OF ALLIGATORS"?
Disney is at fault here, for ridiculously inadequate signage, which totally hid from the vacationers the real dangers they were exposed to, and it seems to have been a business decision, to make vacationers "relax", let their guard down to convey the idea that "you can feel safe and enjoy a Wonderful Vacation Experience at Disney World".
Disney is legally liable, they hid facts, misled people and utterly failed their clientele.
1) Supposedly there was a sign saying "NO SWIMMING". The toddler was NOT SWIMMING in the water at the time of incident, he was wading AT THE EDGE; by what logic does ANYBODY consider this equivalent to swimming?
2) Do you think for one second that the parents would have let their child wade at the edge of the water if instead of a sign saying "NO SWIMMING", there had been a sign saying "BEWARE OF ALLIGATORS"?
Disney is at fault here, for ridiculously inadequate signage, which totally hid from the vacationers the real dangers they were exposed to, and it seems to have been a business decision, to make vacationers "relax", let their guard down to convey the idea that "you can feel safe and enjoy a Wonderful Vacation Experience at Disney World".
Disney is legally liable, they hid facts, misled people and utterly failed their clientele.
10
And their neglect to warn the public about danger from alligators led to this precious child's death. They should get in free to all Disney Parks but I doubt they'll want to go.
2
I'd be shocked if they ever wanted to see mouse ears again in this century.
45 years without an incident. And an "incident" would surely include visitors seeing alligators in the ponds as that would raise a fuss already. Disney has no motive to hide a risk of alligators. Do you think it is the fake beaches that draws the crowds?
Put up new signs and move along. Blame and litigation won't change what happened.
Put up new signs and move along. Blame and litigation won't change what happened.
2
I am dumbstruck by the mean, judgmental, and uninformed comments here. How in the world can you blame the parents, Matt and Melissa Graves, who, through no fault of their own, suffered the loss of their child in a most horrific way? Where are your hearts? Your brains? This family wasn't on an everglades safari; they were guests at DISNEY WORLD, the magical land of Mickey Mouse, for crying out loud! It's supposed to be a safe, family-friendly resort, and it advertises itself as such! Disney, in fact, had invited families at the hotel, including the Graves, to watch a Disney children's movie on that sandy white beach. Why should a tourists from Nebraska (or anywhere else outside Florida) expect alligators to be roaming and hunting freely at the water's edge? Not a single sign warned the Graves family of the hazard of alligators, or even of their presence. This is not even a close case of liability. Disney's negligence is, as the law says. "res ipsa loquiter." "The thing speaks for itself." The fact that such attacks rarely happen is no defense. At Wednesday's press conference. A Florida wildlife official flat-out admitted that he "frequently" assisted Disney in removing "troublesome" gators from the waters. So, of course, Disney knew of the risk, no matter how rare. We should be thankful there are lawyers who want to assist the Graves in coping with, and finding some redress for, Disney's plain negligence.
21
Yes, this is classic criminal negligence on part of Disney. Where is their security department? All records should be audited to find out if "beware of alligators" signs were not allowed because of potential threats to bottomline by scaring away guest.
6
Thank you for your common sense.
It has become acceptable for grown people to bully parents online now while they're suffering. I just don't get it.
It has become acceptable for grown people to bully parents online now while they're suffering. I just don't get it.
7
But Steven, Floridians think EVERYONE knows about the wildlife of their state and HOW DARE people fault Disney.
1
Maybe Disney will now want to put up signs that not only say "swimming not allowed," but also that there are alligators in the area.
4
How about make it so alligators aren't allowed to live, hunt, reside, or relax at a child's playground!
If it came onto school grounds, it would be considered a nuisance alligator and shot!
If it came onto school grounds, it would be considered a nuisance alligator and shot!
1
The Billion Dollar Empire built on childish fantasies of animals; ignores where real alligators are and what they do.
Is that coincidence?
Is that coincidence?
1
Why would they need a background check with all the witnesses? They were waiting for the 9 pm movie on the beach to start. And who is to say that if they had sat down to watch the movie at the edge of the lagoon, the alligator wouldn't have grabbed him from there.
2
As un-fond of The Mouse Corporation as I usually am, I cannot see blaming them too much for the fact that there are alligators in the waters of Florida. They should have done a better job of keeping alligators out, and they should have had better signage explaining *why* there's no swimming allowed. But still, it's Florida; the absolute weirdest state in the union and a place to be avoided as far as I'm concerned.
I feel terrible for the boy's family, but it's likely that he went into shock immediately, and he wasn't eaten; so perhaps there's some very small consolation there.
I feel terrible for the boy's family, but it's likely that he went into shock immediately, and he wasn't eaten; so perhaps there's some very small consolation there.
That's what all judgmental people say, have you recognized that!
What happens after an alligator grabs prey? They do a death roll, rolling at a high speed over and over and over. Imagine 300 pounds rolling in water where you have no footing, tell me again what you would have, could have, should have done!
How about you just offer your condolences and be nice!
What happens after an alligator grabs prey? They do a death roll, rolling at a high speed over and over and over. Imagine 300 pounds rolling in water where you have no footing, tell me again what you would have, could have, should have done!
How about you just offer your condolences and be nice!
5
I too feel awful for this young child and his family. My grand daughter is 2. It makes me feel ill to think of this happening to any child and family. I find no fault with these parents. Alligators are huge predators that can move at enormous speed when hunting. As someone who routinely visits the Georgia and South Carolina barrier Islands I can attest to all bodies of fresh water, including canals and man made lagoons, all having large and clearly stated signage of the presence of alligators and the dangers that accompany such predators. Disney is and should be found negligent for improper signage at this "beach". The very term "beach" implies safety to me. People come from all over the world to stay here. I highly doubt many of them google Disney and predators before their visit. And if they did human predators would more than likely come to mind.
8
"No Swimming" and "Beware Alligators" are two different messages.
9
I grieve with you.
4
Thank you for your intelligent and well written post!
Even here in COLORADO, if you go into the foothills or mountains, there are signs EVERYWHERE that say Beware of bears, mountain lions and if it is rut season deer, and elk. Because they are WILD LIFE and they can and will Kill YOU!
Even here in COLORADO, if you go into the foothills or mountains, there are signs EVERYWHERE that say Beware of bears, mountain lions and if it is rut season deer, and elk. Because they are WILD LIFE and they can and will Kill YOU!
7
You cannot blame the parents. Disney wipes away any remnants of a swamp land and replaces it with this perfect looking idyllic white sand beach. The entire extended Disney resort area is landscaped. It looks pristine, it looks completely safe. You think Disney has taken care of everything. You would never suspect a gator is in the waters-- no, not at Disney.
Two years ago I was at the World Dolphin hotel, about 2 miles from the Grand Floridian. I saw an alligator in one of the numerous canals, about 6 feet long. My son was completely freaked out-- I thought it was kinda cute because despite being that long, its snout was somewhat small and didn't seem capable of devouring a 20 lb dog. Now I know better-- its strategy is to drag and drown the prey then eat it later. I also wonder if rather then try to pry the kid out of the mouth, maybe they should have just tried to keep the gator from running away with the kid until further help arrived.
I called the hotel right away to tell them what happened. They told me they'd look into it. Today I called them again, making sure I spoke to management. I was surprised at the response: basically it's Florida and you might expect a gator. Then I realized the mindset. Floridians are accustomed to seeing gators and factor that into everyday living. Disney management should have realized that non-locals have no clue about alligators being present. It's such a tragedy-- both the family and Disney will pay dearly for it.
Two years ago I was at the World Dolphin hotel, about 2 miles from the Grand Floridian. I saw an alligator in one of the numerous canals, about 6 feet long. My son was completely freaked out-- I thought it was kinda cute because despite being that long, its snout was somewhat small and didn't seem capable of devouring a 20 lb dog. Now I know better-- its strategy is to drag and drown the prey then eat it later. I also wonder if rather then try to pry the kid out of the mouth, maybe they should have just tried to keep the gator from running away with the kid until further help arrived.
I called the hotel right away to tell them what happened. They told me they'd look into it. Today I called them again, making sure I spoke to management. I was surprised at the response: basically it's Florida and you might expect a gator. Then I realized the mindset. Floridians are accustomed to seeing gators and factor that into everyday living. Disney management should have realized that non-locals have no clue about alligators being present. It's such a tragedy-- both the family and Disney will pay dearly for it.
9
Perhaps Disney doesn't put up the sign because they don't want to scare people away from the resort. A "No Swimming" sign is common. But a sign saying "Beware of Alligators" is rare and might discourage customers. Never in a million years would I vacation in a place where wild and dangerous animals roamed freely. Here in Massachusetts, if there is a "no swimming sign" it might be because of dirty water, or no life guard on duty. It is not smart, but it is not unusual for people to disregard those signs. However, if the sign said "NO SWIMMING--ALLIGATORS INHABIT THESE WATERS--" everyone would keep their distance.
7
Such a terrible tragedy. It was reported in the Orlando Sentinel, which quoted a Disney employee, that "there is a problem on property with guests feeding the alligators . . . " If alligators in the lagoon have become accustomed to human beings as a source of food, then it could have been a factor in this situation.
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/business/tourism/os-disney-alligator-hist...
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/business/tourism/os-disney-alligator-hist...
6
This is a terrible tragedy and I feel great sadness for the family. The real issue here is that no one is to blame, not the parents and not Disney. Accidents happen in our world, it is not 100% safe! Of course, the lawyers are swarming like the alligators that are being blamed for this incident.
1
Let's put it this way; do you think Disney will post signs NOW.
1
"Let's put it this way; do you think Disney will post signs NOW"
I guess it will depend heavily on the advice of their legal department. Couldn't posting adequate warnings now be construed as an admission of the inadequacy of the earlier signs?
The first thing we do is kill all the lawyers.
And like many others here I am shocked at the blame thrown on the parents.
I guess it will depend heavily on the advice of their legal department. Couldn't posting adequate warnings now be construed as an admission of the inadequacy of the earlier signs?
The first thing we do is kill all the lawyers.
And like many others here I am shocked at the blame thrown on the parents.
Here's all there is to say when a two year old gets killed by a gator at Disney right in front of his family just too far out of reach for his father to save him: "Stop the world I wanna get off!" And that's the second time I've made that plea in 3 days because of the darkness that has fallen over Orlando. Blame who? For what? No: just stop the world already.
2
Nope, we have to keep going. When bad things happen, talk it out and try to find a way to help. And focus on the good things as much as possible.
2
The first comment on the Orlando Sentinel article:
"Just bloody freakin heck man! This makes me want to cry."
I thought they might as well stop the comments after that, because what else is there to say, really.
"Just bloody freakin heck man! This makes me want to cry."
I thought they might as well stop the comments after that, because what else is there to say, really.
1
Hard to believe that a resort was not aware of the possibility that alligators were in that water. There are over one to two million gators in Florida waters. This Disney hotel should be closed down. Maybe they had other close incidents like this that almost occurred, and they took no action to protect their guests. There is no logical reason why anyone would ever be allowed to go into this water again. Just such a sad incident int eh life of a family that was on vacation. It is shocking that a resort would allow children enter a water area where it is known that alligators are searching to exist. Close it down in memory .
Twenty years ago my family and I moved from Ohio to Goose Creek, South Carolina. We lived in a beautiful area that had a small man made lake. We knew nothing about the dangers there until a dog went missing and guess what? Several alligators lived in that lake. We were 25 miles north of Charleston and a good 30 miles inland. Unless you are native to the area you have no idea of the wildlife literally on your doorstep and the danger they pose. This is a horror for this young family and the "beach" was an invitation that never should have been sent.
8
This is a micromanaged disney property, this has no similarity with your example. Disney made this beach and even provides a life guard there. Look at the pictures in the brochure. They charge an arm and leg for this magical family resort. Where is their responsibility.
2
I don't usually pay attention to cases like this where the media focuses on a single "sensational" child case. But I find this one unusually upsetting. I'm surprised there are so many comments attacking the parents. I can't think of a more tragic and horrible way to lose a child that was obviously highly loved and well taken care of.
The parents might "get a lot of money" out of Disney, but honestly, who cares. I don't think I'd ever get any joy whatsoever out of cash acquired in this way.
The parents might "get a lot of money" out of Disney, but honestly, who cares. I don't think I'd ever get any joy whatsoever out of cash acquired in this way.
8
Attractive artificial beach. Beach chair provided for sitting. Hotel for families with small children. A no swimming sign. NOT a sign saying DANGER ALLIGATORS -USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. This is a classic case of the Hotel owner creating an attractive nuisance. Disney is liable, make them pay.
1
A simple sign warning people of the presence of alligators may have avoided this tragedy.
1
I am sorry for the family.
I hate bringing this up but with the over population of Florida and the destruction of the Everglades we can see this happening more frequently.
I hate bringing this up but with the over population of Florida and the destruction of the Everglades we can see this happening more frequently.
1
Hey wow. Tough to lose a child, I am sure.
Just saying:
Alligators are reptiles, not mammals.
Their population in the south, particularly Florida, is big.
They're in the fresh (ish) water, usually, trying to stay cool and, you know,fed.
It's a really good idea, if you want to have more life, not to get in the water where alligators are.
Sorry for the loss of life but...
These creatures are not cartoon characters created by the famous absurd hijacker of human imagination. They are real. Unlike whatever it is the visitors to the theme park are looking for.
So now, probably, there will be a brisk business for vastly intelligent males in Florida to go to Orlando and shoot alligators. With, you know, really special guns.
My advice is to stay away from both of these creatures and keep your children away from them as well.
Oh and just another thing. It doesn't taste like chicken.
Just saying:
Alligators are reptiles, not mammals.
Their population in the south, particularly Florida, is big.
They're in the fresh (ish) water, usually, trying to stay cool and, you know,fed.
It's a really good idea, if you want to have more life, not to get in the water where alligators are.
Sorry for the loss of life but...
These creatures are not cartoon characters created by the famous absurd hijacker of human imagination. They are real. Unlike whatever it is the visitors to the theme park are looking for.
So now, probably, there will be a brisk business for vastly intelligent males in Florida to go to Orlando and shoot alligators. With, you know, really special guns.
My advice is to stay away from both of these creatures and keep your children away from them as well.
Oh and just another thing. It doesn't taste like chicken.
Wow Mike, your lack of compassion and empathy is stunning.
I hope your rays of sunshine don't spread to far from your person.
I hope your rays of sunshine don't spread to far from your person.
this is extreme negligence on the part of disney... what kind of resort is this where people lose their life....people visiting with their kids from all over the world are not aware of alligators... closing down the premises for a while should be in order
2
So Rose, you would expect, in an enclosed resort at Walt Disney World that your children could be killed at any moment?
I wouldn't take my child there.
So, if you come to Colorado, do you know all of our predators? What would you beware of?
I had no idea they allowed alligators to roam free inside a child's dream world!
I wouldn't take my child there.
So, if you come to Colorado, do you know all of our predators? What would you beware of?
I had no idea they allowed alligators to roam free inside a child's dream world!
3
I just hope that there isn't a stupid knee jerk reaction to go out and shoot every alligator in sight. This is a tragic incident but they ignored warnings that swimming is not permitted. The animals should not have to be punished for human stupidity.
1
And this generation of laissez faire parents whose children "get away" from them and result in the death of animals has got to stop. It's called discipline people. Please teach your children to stay close and quiet down. I am tired of the screaming and wild running around I see demonstrated by poor parenting and totally out-of-control kids.
I feel nothing but pain for this family, but Is a "no swimming sign" enough "duty of care" by Disney? Time will tell, as will the inevitable litigation.
1
I am so sorry! I have a 2½ year old granddaughter and a 3½ year old granddaughter and I would be devastated if ANYTHING happened to them.
I pray for your daughter, she is just old enough to understand her baby brother is gone, but not understand why. I will pray for you and your family that GOD brings you peace as soon as humanly possible.
Much love, Sheila
I pray for your daughter, she is just old enough to understand her baby brother is gone, but not understand why. I will pray for you and your family that GOD brings you peace as soon as humanly possible.
Much love, Sheila
1
I see a big lawsuit coming the way of Disney World. If it was me I would seek to punish them for as many millions as it takes until it hurts their bottom line.
Still, nothing will ever compare to the pain of losing a small child. I know because I've been there too, albeit in different circumstances. I share this family's pain and I know it will never really heal.
Still, nothing will ever compare to the pain of losing a small child. I know because I've been there too, albeit in different circumstances. I share this family's pain and I know it will never really heal.
In response to Mr. Frank, who is quoted in the article: As a citizen of North Carolina, you are highly aware of the possibility that alligators might be lurking about in all kinds of water bodies. But this is probably not as familiar a sight in Nebraska. Since Disneyworld is a destination for travelers coming from every corner of the globe, it's reasonable to think they should have had a warning sign posted, as other nearby resorts do.
6
That poor family. I'm sure this was supposed to be a very special vacation for their son. How horrible for them.
Not being a Floridian, and not being aware of the ways of alligators, I would not expect one to suddenly pop out of this particular lagoon. It looks like an idyllic, placid beach environment - the hotel is RIGHT THERE. It's not as if they were on a pontoon in the Everglades having a wildlife trip - it's DISNEY. These people don't live in FL and must not watch enough Discovery Wild. I don't think it's fair or kind for some fellow letter writers here to blame them as negligent parents.
Not being a Floridian, and not being aware of the ways of alligators, I would not expect one to suddenly pop out of this particular lagoon. It looks like an idyllic, placid beach environment - the hotel is RIGHT THERE. It's not as if they were on a pontoon in the Everglades having a wildlife trip - it's DISNEY. These people don't live in FL and must not watch enough Discovery Wild. I don't think it's fair or kind for some fellow letter writers here to blame them as negligent parents.
9
Disney needed to have a "Danger: Alligators may be present" sign. "No Swimming" is not sufficient; the child was not swimming. He was splashing in shallow water, and his parents had no idea a predator might be hiding in the lagoon. All these people who think Nebraskans or anyone else should be experts on alligators: no. It was Disney's duty to warn. I understand how they could not ensure the water was alligator-free, since it's an outdoor site, but the Graves family and everyone else deserved more information.
7
My heart goes out.
I do wonder, though, about the angle of this story, NYT. In what ways are an employee that works for a competing hotel and a 16-year-old guest reliable sources for quotations?
I do wonder, though, about the angle of this story, NYT. In what ways are an employee that works for a competing hotel and a 16-year-old guest reliable sources for quotations?
5
Terrible. My prayers for the Graves family for their loss.
3
The biggest cause of so called "nuisance alligators" is out of state tourists feeding them. I would bet that was an ongoing activity there, are there signs saying it's against the law?
The child was in the water at night splashing around, typical prey behavior. You can't keep the gators out; they can go in, over, and around almost anything, usually in the early morning hours when there is no human activity.
Anyone who has lived there knows you never go in the water, and there are other dangers. I've seen huge snapping turtles that would take a toe off with ease.
The child was in the water at night splashing around, typical prey behavior. You can't keep the gators out; they can go in, over, and around almost anything, usually in the early morning hours when there is no human activity.
Anyone who has lived there knows you never go in the water, and there are other dangers. I've seen huge snapping turtles that would take a toe off with ease.
4
Posting a "No Swimming" sign but failing to warn about the alligator infested waters is like posting a "No Running" sign but failing to warn of the cliff.
Not just negligence, but gross negligence.
Disney = 100% fault
Parents = 0% fault
Not just negligence, but gross negligence.
Disney = 100% fault
Parents = 0% fault
9
Disney is a large fake place. The lake is 'man-made' (fake) and since Disney drained a hefty portion of Florida swamp to create a world where TV commercials show Tinker Bell touching children's dreams so the children will beg to be taken to the large drained swamp, one would expect that the alligators would be 1.) removed and 2.) re-removed each swampy day. That a Nebraska couple would feel unsafe from knowledge of alligator possibilities is unreasonable because no alligators are wild in Nebraska. That a 'no swimming' sign tells a Nebraska parent anything about why a supervised child can not splash in the magic waters of the drained swamp is grossly negligent. And that people think otherwise is a testament to the hypnotic power of Tinker Bell. A local Connecticut 80 pound snapping turtle which looked in my eyes stopped my Fly Fishing pastime immediately and forever.
10
Sometimes things just happen. There's alligators in Florida, sometimes they attack. There's poisonous snakes also. If the boy had been bitten and died would that be Disney's fault ?? How about a panther, they have been seen in Florida. I think one thing to consider is the time. It was around 9pm. I think that is important. There was a sign that said 'no swimming'. So to let the boy in the water to me was extra dangerous. Reckless even. I wouldn't go swimming in a lagoon at night.
Orange, NJ
Orange, NJ
3
That's the problem. If you live in Florida, you know there are alligators, snakes, panthers, and bears. I've seen them all, and we lived in a suburb, not the country.
The problem is that the resorts don't want to scare people, so they don't post proper warnings. They put up stupid "no swimming" signs, but are afraid to tell people why, so as not to scare away the customers. Any Floridian in their right mind wouldn't go near one of those ponds, especially after dark. But non-Floridians see a body of water next to a hotel and think it must he safe, just because it's in a heavily trafficked semi-public place. The resorts are at fault, and I'm sure they have the legislature in their pockets on this one, because without mass tourism, Florida has nothing to offer.
The problem is that the resorts don't want to scare people, so they don't post proper warnings. They put up stupid "no swimming" signs, but are afraid to tell people why, so as not to scare away the customers. Any Floridian in their right mind wouldn't go near one of those ponds, especially after dark. But non-Floridians see a body of water next to a hotel and think it must he safe, just because it's in a heavily trafficked semi-public place. The resorts are at fault, and I'm sure they have the legislature in their pockets on this one, because without mass tourism, Florida has nothing to offer.
3
They hold family movie nights on the sands of an artificial lagoon that has alligators swimming around in it?
8
I've been to Disney since it opened in 1972, when I was a girl; I've brought my children back many times. I've been on that beach, strolled at the Polynesian's beach, swam there too. It actually used to be allowed in certain areas. Indeed, back when Disney had River Country - a lake-based water amusement park - I swam there too.
Never once, ever, did it occur to me that there were alligators in the lakes. Leeches, bacteria--yes. Alligators, no. Not once. I guess, not being from Florida, it didn't occur to me they could walk on land and cross over into the artificial lake.
Wild alligators definitely do not fit the Disney image. That I think is the conundrum Disney found itself in, and why it made the ultimately poor choice it did-- they put signs up warning people away, but implied it was because it wasn't a treated lake & there were no lifeguards. This fit their image just fine, & probably they rationalized that the chances of an attack were very low. They are very low. But here it happened.
They should have put "Danger, NO wading in lake: Alligators" and image be damned. Very sad.
Never once, ever, did it occur to me that there were alligators in the lakes. Leeches, bacteria--yes. Alligators, no. Not once. I guess, not being from Florida, it didn't occur to me they could walk on land and cross over into the artificial lake.
Wild alligators definitely do not fit the Disney image. That I think is the conundrum Disney found itself in, and why it made the ultimately poor choice it did-- they put signs up warning people away, but implied it was because it wasn't a treated lake & there were no lifeguards. This fit their image just fine, & probably they rationalized that the chances of an attack were very low. They are very low. But here it happened.
They should have put "Danger, NO wading in lake: Alligators" and image be damned. Very sad.
114
Every single guest that checks in should be told and provided educational materials. Then they sign a waiver. A sign, possibly not seen by parents and not readable by a toddler doesn't do much good.
Yup -- "No Swimming" does not equate with "No Wading -- Alligators"
On the other hand, I would not allow a two year old to wade without being right next to them. But, it might not have made a difference in this case.
On the other hand, I would not allow a two year old to wade without being right next to them. But, it might not have made a difference in this case.
Having grown up in New Jersey, these are my thoughts exactly. I would have assumed "no swimming" referred to the lack of a lifeguard. I'm not sure I would have even thought of bacteria, which is apparently the reason for the "no swimming" signs -- but I certainly would not have thought about danger from alligators. Why would Disney even build and encourage the use of beaches which abut water where there may be alligators? I've been on one of these beaches too -- the one by the Yacht and Beach Club resort. Scary. And very sad indeed.
2
The "No Swimming" sign was not intended for alligators to read. What part of "No Swimming" did the parents not understand? I guess it was the "No" part of it.
3
He wasn;t swimming. He was in less than six inches of water, splashing his feet.
2
what part of the word "swimming" do you not understand?
2
Some people here are blaming the parents because there was a no swimming sign. Nonsense. How can any believe that the violation of no swimming sign justifiably be punished by death?
Disney should fill in the lake and make the park safe for all families, even those whose children act like children.
Disney should fill in the lake and make the park safe for all families, even those whose children act like children.
3
Alligators are pretty much everywhere in Florida. They are no where in Nebraska except in zoos. Perhaps there should be some education for folks when they go there. They also have sharks who also eat people. They also have Rick Scott and one of the most inane legislatures in the history of the United States. Why anyone goes there is beyond me.
Alligator dangers are worse than just having some lurking in the water. There have been reports of alligators snagging golfers who have wandered into the woods after a lost ball - the alligator did not come out of the water. I stayed at a townhouse resort in Hilton Head, North Carolina. While we were eating on the deck, an alligator came up out of a very small creek and wandered under the deck. Somewhere between 6 - 8 feet long. When I called the desk they just told me that was not unusual. One wonders how many small kids and pets have to disappear before better measures are taken at least to inform the unwary. I am from California. We are used to worrying about earthquakes, floods, snakes and spiders. We don't expect the risk of alligators in Los Angeles and expect to be told about them if they are present at a resort in another state!
7
"There have been reports of alligators snagging golfers who have wandered into the woods after a lost ball - the alligator did not come out of the water. "
Take the penalty, drop the ball
Take the penalty, drop the ball
It's called wildlife but I don't expect you get that much in Los Angeles
RachelK, there is a mountain lion living near the Observatory. I happen to know this but most people probably don't know taking your kid to that park in LA isn't safe.
Heart-shattering.
7
Signage along Lake Erie, such as "No Swimming", means the beach is unguarded, it does not mean you will be eaten if you get into the water...
Incredible!
How sad and tragic to lose a child.......I recall paddle boating on that lake years ago, unaware of the gator risk.....if you golf, gators are everywhere in Florida, crossing the fairways, you never go looking for a ball in the water....
So sad
Incredible!
How sad and tragic to lose a child.......I recall paddle boating on that lake years ago, unaware of the gator risk.....if you golf, gators are everywhere in Florida, crossing the fairways, you never go looking for a ball in the water....
So sad
10
Thank God they can bury him. As a parent, the thought of having the horrific memory burned into my brain of my child being carried off by an alligator never to be seen again would do me in. Yes, these people have another child and need to consider that ..... but the nightmares, guilt, grief over this freakish occurrence ..... how does one recover from that?? My prayers are with this family.
7
I would like to send my deepest condolences too the graves family may God be with you all
6
I am so, so sorry for this family. I hesitate to comment on this, but I would like to defend the parents here and the parents in the recent zoo incident with the gorilla - from the perspective of a child.
I once got lost in a huge amusement park at about age 5-6. I didn't consider myself lost. I saw something interesting and it didn't look that far away. So even though there were a number of family members around me, I decided to take a closer look and walked off. I didn't know where I was going, never found what I was looking for (what was I looking for? It was quite important at the time) but a crowded amusement park filled with rides is a fascinating place so I kept walking. Eventually I was "found" (I didn't know that I was "lost") and I came to realize from the stressed looks on everyone's faces I had made a big mistake. Luckily for me, I didn't get in trouble (though I did have to carefully print a thank-you letter to someone in charge of security at the park, whom my parents found the name of).
Of course as an adult I realize how many things could have gone wrong, but does a child really know this? And does a parent instantly turn into Superman or Wonder Woman running to the rescue simply because he/she is a parent? Please, folks, we all think we would act like someone in the movies when faced with grave danger. That is probably not true. A suggestion: just be grateful when things turn out OK and have sincere compassion for others when things do not turn out OK.
I once got lost in a huge amusement park at about age 5-6. I didn't consider myself lost. I saw something interesting and it didn't look that far away. So even though there were a number of family members around me, I decided to take a closer look and walked off. I didn't know where I was going, never found what I was looking for (what was I looking for? It was quite important at the time) but a crowded amusement park filled with rides is a fascinating place so I kept walking. Eventually I was "found" (I didn't know that I was "lost") and I came to realize from the stressed looks on everyone's faces I had made a big mistake. Luckily for me, I didn't get in trouble (though I did have to carefully print a thank-you letter to someone in charge of security at the park, whom my parents found the name of).
Of course as an adult I realize how many things could have gone wrong, but does a child really know this? And does a parent instantly turn into Superman or Wonder Woman running to the rescue simply because he/she is a parent? Please, folks, we all think we would act like someone in the movies when faced with grave danger. That is probably not true. A suggestion: just be grateful when things turn out OK and have sincere compassion for others when things do not turn out OK.
214
Very eloquently put. Your parents started you off well - right from the beginning you learned the necessity of writing. I hope more parents act like yours did.
6
Don't you know those poor parents will be forever blaming themselves.
7
True that!
1
Disney is oe sick company. They know there will be tourists from a ll around the country and world at their park who have no Alligator awareness.
They should be held accountable. My heart and thoughts go to that poor family.
They should be held accountable. My heart and thoughts go to that poor family.
4
Disney surely has the money to make sure there are no alligators in
the waters of their resorts.
the waters of their resorts.
1
Alligators have legs and lakes attract them. I once watched a guy from Indiana standing on a slope going down to a ditch full of water with his hand out to an alligator ten feet from him as if he were feeding a dog. Had he been eaten by this very large alligator I'm sure someone in Indiana would be suing Florida for not leashing their pets.
3
Mike,
Disney is as rich as rich can be.
They can build a wall around the waters of their resorts and
put fences off shore to keep the alligators from getting to shore
if they do breach the walls.
A child was killed.
Disney is as rich as rich can be.
They can build a wall around the waters of their resorts and
put fences off shore to keep the alligators from getting to shore
if they do breach the walls.
A child was killed.
1
This was a terrible tragedy, and likely to be more common, on land and in the water, as man continues to encroach on the natural habitats of these animals.
3
Disney was extremely remiss in not communicating adequately to parents and patrons just what level of danger exists in those waters. There is a huge difference between a "No Swimming" sign and "Danger: Alligators" sign. The former seems standard and can indicate anything from an innocuous "no lifeguard on duty" to "bacteria or pollutants in the water." That is a FAR cry from "man-eating wild animals in the water," and NO parent would let their child near water that was potentially infested with deadly animals. So anyone who thinks Disney did their due diligence is sorely mistaken. Disney was enormously negligent in lulling patrons into a false belief that the environment is safer than it actually is. These parents should sue and get a huge payout. If Hulk Hogan could win $140 mil and Erin Andrews could get $75 mil, both for a couple of videos posted online, imagine how much a child's life would be worth to a jury, especially when that child was snatched from his father's hands by an *alligator*. I predict a HUGE $$$ettlement. And the parents deserve it. RIP little baby Lane. This is beyond tragic.
110
Actually the life of a child is not that valuable in the eyes of the law. some value can be added if the attorneys can prove conscious pain and suffering, which will be determined by an autopsy. The rest of the value here will come from "zone of danger" claims and the emotional damage to the rest of the family (which will have to be documented by medical professionals). The biggest damage to Disney will be to it's reputation as a safe and "magical" family vacation destination.
"There is a huge difference between a "No Swimming" sign and "Danger: Alligators" sign."
Amen.
Amen.
2
What's magical about standing in line?
If you take your child to Disneyworld, you expect to be safe.
Period.
Period.
7
I wouldn't even drive on Interstates 95 or 75 in Florida because they kill more people than any alligator population ever could.
2
Our family has vacationed in Florida for over 25 years.We have constantly warned our children and grandchildren of the dangers;alligators,snakes,and sharks.No one was ever allowed to wade/swim/canoe in a Florida lake.You only swim in a pool.In the Gulf,no one was allowed into deep water.I don't know all the facts about this tragedy yet.Yes,Disney is at fault but responsibility lies with the parents too.Anyone can research Florida and read about the true stories of gators in pools,snakes in your house,etc.You need to vigilant when in Florida.
6
The NYT is quoting a 16 year old and an employee of a Disney competitor for opinions on Disney's safety protocol? That's really weak and not up to expected standards.
13
Poor little angel.
4
So very sad. I can't begin to imagine what these poor parents are going through. My thoughts and prayers are with them.
9
Guests should have to sign something when they check in that states that they understand that there are alligators on the property and that they can and have attacked people. Most people don't equate putting their feet in the water with swimming so the "No Swimming" sign is ineffective. The signs should read "DEADLY ALLIGATORS".....oh, and now that crocodiles have made their way to Florida, they might need to add signs that read "BEWARE OF CROCODILES". My heart aches for this little boy's family.
6
A resort a few miles away, The Hyatt Regency Grand Cypress Orlando, has signage reading" No swimming ...Please be aware of alligators in the lake" with a picture of an alligator posted. It does not detract in any way from the beauty of the grounds. Apparently they felt that preventing their guests from suffering an injury or death was a higher priority than preventing any possible negative effect on the idyllic ambience of the property.
13
Why were five alligators, at least four of which were "innocent," killed?
4
On my initial visit to Florida, I walked into an information centre and the first sign I saw warned that wherever there was water there may be alligators. In touring the state I saw them in lakes and I saw them around puddles. Needless to say whenever I was around fresh water I was cautious of alligators. Such a tragic event compounding the senseless loss of life through gun violence. My heart bleeds for all the families involved. I pray that this incident heightens awareness of the pitfalls of nature so all can enjoy the beauty that it embodies. Be careful out there.
4
I know why Disney did not post this sign, but what a corporate shame: "Danger, ALLIGATORS PRESENT, Do Not Swim."
4
Why didn't they? Bad for business? Honest question. I was just wondering why they didn't add "alligators present" to the no swimming sign when I saw your comment.
A classic story of Americans thinking they can buy fantasy from Disney. The lagoon is man-made, it is surrounded by the usual Disney surreal architecture, like all Disney it promises adventure and bliss with no risk. It would lull virtually any of us into believing that we had the power to live in paradise, and that is what Disney charges the big bucks for. This family learned the hard way that there is no alternative to reality. I'm sure they will teach Disney that if you charge for fantasy, you better deliver.
6
This little boy wasn't swimming. He was splashing in water up to his ankles. The parents were close enough for both of them to struggle with the alligator.
Disney must change its signs to: Stay out of water. Alligators may be present.
People from Nebraska do not know there will be alligators at Disney. This was a terrible, terrible tragedy.
Disney must change its signs to: Stay out of water. Alligators may be present.
People from Nebraska do not know there will be alligators at Disney. This was a terrible, terrible tragedy.
6
would that be similar to saying " Cautions, Stove hot while in use ? " I live no where near Florida but I know there are alligators down there, just like I know there are grizzlies in Wyoming . This is indeed a tragedy !!! and as a parent I would probably jump off a cliff if something like this occurred to a child of mine BUT... people need to take responsibility. No Swimming means NO body parts IN water !
Nan, no swimming does not mean no body parts in water. It means no swimming. This little boy was NOT swimming.
2
@newshound: NO IT DOES NOT.
I am sure you believe that a yellow traffic light means "speed up and rush through before it turns red" and that it is OK to touch a hot stove (if you touch it real fast) and OK to approach a growling dog.
Also, you must run across the street when the light is red -- you can make it, sure you can.
"NO SWIMMING" means stay out of the water, period, Completely.
I am sure you believe that a yellow traffic light means "speed up and rush through before it turns red" and that it is OK to touch a hot stove (if you touch it real fast) and OK to approach a growling dog.
Also, you must run across the street when the light is red -- you can make it, sure you can.
"NO SWIMMING" means stay out of the water, period, Completely.
I feel nothing but horror and sorrow for that family - such a tragic, unspeakable loss which will surely haunt them for the remainder of their lives. I do believe that Disney should have had much more specific signs, but the reality is that creating a "beach" next to a lagoon in which there would unquestionably be alligators (this is Florida, folks!) was very foolish, perhaps bordering on reckless. All of that said, I also feel sadness that at least 6 alligators have been "euthanized" as a result of this tragedy - the alligators are also innocent victims of humans' greed and abject stupidity. We continue to overbuild and over-develop, and in so doing, we have consumed and overwhelmed millions of species' natural ecosystems and habitats. Such human-wildlife encounters are inevitable and in this case, the child, his family, and the alligators have paid a grievous price. It seems that humans never learn.
5
Actually, the alligator population in Florida has absolutely exploded in recent decades. Six fewer will do no harm whatsoever.
That's one reason I would never knowingly spend so much as a dime at any part of the Disney empire. It's contributed massively to the dumbing-down of our culture and the entitlement some humans feel to entertain themselves at the expense of every other creature on earth.
2
What part of "No Swimming" don't people understand? Now an innocent child and 5 animals are dead because of parents' negligence. You don't have to be from Florida to know that there are alligators in lakes, canals and lagoons. If you see a sign prohibiting swimming in a body of water, there is a reason for it.
4
When will you learn to read. The child was not swimming but walking in ankle deep water on the "beach" made by Disney
1
The child was splashing in the water. I have no doubt that yo never, ever drive even one tiny bit over the speed limit.
Bec. you’re a rules follower , and rules followers are the best.
Bec. you’re a rules follower , and rules followers are the best.
1
The boy was not swimming. Do you know what swimming is?
2
They show up all over my area. Brazos state park just south of Houston has them as an attraction. You do see them. They have warnings not to near but they are use to people and sun where they plesse. A young women with her boyfriend was pretty frightened by one swimming about 30 feet away. She was acting like she should run. I told her not to worry about it and pointed out the eight footer in the reeds about ten feet away. Someone is going to get hurt.
People who lived in these areas knew how to maintain a balance. Now people feed them dog food like pets. There has to be a rule of thumb where they reach a certain size and become a danger to people they can be killed. Now that crocodiles are being released in Florida by pet owners attacks will increase.
People who lived in these areas knew how to maintain a balance. Now people feed them dog food like pets. There has to be a rule of thumb where they reach a certain size and become a danger to people they can be killed. Now that crocodiles are being released in Florida by pet owners attacks will increase.
1
I'm dismayed by the amount of coverage Disney's "No Swimming: signs have received in reports about this incident. So far as I know, no one claimed the child was"swimming," so to what is this information responsive? Disney has also been assiduous in getting the media to describe the Seven Seas lagoon as "outisde Disney World." That is fundamentally a lie, because the lagoon is part of the ;landscape tended by Disney World and is bordered by inviting sand Disney provides in an effort to create the ambience of a beach. The fact that a lifeguard was on duty and didn't object to the child splashing around at the shore of the lagoon is more evidence that its signs were irrelevant. They should have warned: "Danger: Alligators May Attack."
3
When I was young child, about 3 years old, I almost drowned. I was underwater in a pool and I realized I couldn't get back up, that I might actually die. It's an odd thing to say because I know I didn't know what dying was at that age. Still, in a moment I "knew" it, and there was a sudden panic--which was immediately followed by calm and the feeling that I was OK. An adult saw me and pulled me out of the pool, but I remember well that sudden calm that kicked in when I felt imminent death. I thought of it when I heard about this story and wished I could convey it to these parents.
80
You have been bamboozled by the Disney fed media plugging of their "no swimming" sign. The child was not swimming, he was wading in ankle deep water on the "beach" ostensibly made by Disney for this very purpose. Parents were nearby, close enough to struggle with the wild beast.
2
As I read your comment, I remembered a story my father had told me years ago. As a kid, he had nearly drowned and his experience was the same as you describe: panic followed by calm and the feeling that he was OK.
1
Barbarika, my comment has nothing to do with swimming, or with who should be blamed for this tragedy. Reports say this child died by drowning, though drowning is not the point either. Whatever the physical cause of death, it was something sudden and unexpected. My personal experience is that there is something comforting that kicks in in such moments. I'm not the only one to have experienced this, but I did experience it as a very young child, not much older than this young boy pulled under the water by an alligator. At the time I experienced the wonder of "knowing" that death isn't what we think it is. Experiences cannot be conveyed to others directly, but sometimes when you know someone is speaking their truth, it does help to hear about them.
I live on a lake in Houston that has plenty of alligators and they can be anywhere. They will walk out of one part of the lake, walk down the sidewalk and walk back into another part of the lake. They can also run faster than any human and are mindless predators.
Disney is totally at fault here. They should have known that in that part of the world, as along as there is water, there will be alligators.
Disney is totally at fault here. They should have known that in that part of the world, as along as there is water, there will be alligators.
5
Maybe we humans should start learning to stay away or at least be vigilant when we move INTO another species territory ?
1
I've lived in Florida for over 35 years. Disney needs to have more appropriate signage, such as a warning that lakes are natural habitats for gators. One cannot be properly aware if they don't know what they are supposed to be cautious of. People are visiting Disney from all over the world and need the info regarding our state. You can bet that all lakes (manmade and natural) have gators. Why do we have more attacks in recent years? Because our state laws that were intended to prevent excessive growth have been removed by our governor, thus we have had 200,000 people move here in 2015. We're encroaching on the gators natural habitat, it interferes with their ability to find food and pushes them into places closer to humans. Little dogs, cats and small children are always in danger along the shore of lakes. It can happen even if it is considered rare in terms of attacks vs population. We Floridians know this fact.
5
If that is so, then why did Disney make an enticing beach at the "Family resort" for which they charge an arm and leg for. It is criminal negligence, not to warn people about dangers of wading in ankle deep water at the beach.
1
They do have no swimming signs and as I said, it is rare that it happens. But, the reality is that it can happen. I believe they need stronger signs. That's my personal opinion and that is based on the fact that many people visiting Disney may not have educated themselves prior to coming. It's a place for little kids. We don't have signs like that at every lake in Florida, nor do we have signs that there are sharks in the ocean. There are actually people that live in Central Florida that do swim in lakes and rivers. Gators are in the rivers too. I kayak in the ocean and the rivers. I swim in the ocean taking my chances with the sharks (an ariel view shows plenty of them out there). I do not swim in lakes or rivers. I am alert when I am on the river to nearby gators. They aren't going to bother me if am not in the water and not bothering them. I don't kayak during the time frame that the water level is low and baby gators are being born. They are aggressively protective of their young. I'm extra alert when I get in and out of my kayak. An adult is safer than a small child. If you are in a river and the current is really strong (gators don't typically hang there) people swim. I don't. Gators are on our golf courses which all have manmade lakes on them. I've never heard of an attack on a gold course. We that live here have all varying degrees of which we are comfortable with in regards to gators. They are all around us and we co-exist with them.
Disney controls virtually every aspect of the experience at their park. They create a fantasy world for people to experience the world in a safe, artificial setting. Putting humans in direct contact with the "real" natural world doesn't fit this model. Let's face it: the threat of alligators in Florida waters is not a new one. In keeping with their control-the-experience model , it's unusual that signs were not posted that indicated the presence of child-snatching alligators. The father was keeping an eye on his child, but it is not realistic to expect parents from Nebraska to be aware of this risk.
7
Unimaginable.
2
Every day we walk out into the world, tragedy could befall us. Trying to place blame on this or that is tricky. We all have to be careful and use common sense, but sometimes tragedy strikes no matter how we try to be safe. It is a fact of life. If we knew what was going to happen to us, life could be terrifying and not very enjoyable. My heart goes out to the family of the boy.
1
Everyone calculates risk in their environment on a daily basis. Nobody does the math faster than a parent of a toddler. By withholding the most lethal information about the conditions of that beach, Disney prevented parents on their property the ability to calculate the true risks to their children. For Disney, the only thing magical was their thinking.
5
This is more than heart wrenching.
Alligators don't attack human beings or stalk them as prey for food which explains the extreme rarity of an event like this and why that beautiful child when found was intact.
What is totally unnecessary is playing the blame game by quoting an attorney who unlike the alligators feeds of human misery or trying to figure the parents involvement, while they are doubtless suffering horrendous grief.
Our hearts should go out to the family to wish them solace and peace.
Alligators don't attack human beings or stalk them as prey for food which explains the extreme rarity of an event like this and why that beautiful child when found was intact.
What is totally unnecessary is playing the blame game by quoting an attorney who unlike the alligators feeds of human misery or trying to figure the parents involvement, while they are doubtless suffering horrendous grief.
Our hearts should go out to the family to wish them solace and peace.
1
"Alligator bites off arm of Gainesville gardens director"
(Associated Press)Published Wednesday, September 25, 2002. The director had been working at the botanical garden since 1978. He was cleaning a lily pond when the alligator twisted his arm off.
(Associated Press)Published Wednesday, September 25, 2002. The director had been working at the botanical garden since 1978. He was cleaning a lily pond when the alligator twisted his arm off.
1
Unbelievable that parents would allow a 2 yr old in water alone at 9pm in Florida. There was a pool with a lifeguard right behind them. Were the parents drinking?
5
Yes mindlessly blame the parents, Do you work for disney. Child was playing in the man made beach, on the man made lagoon, in a family resort which disney advertises as magic. Parents were nearby but of course can't run faster than the gator. Had the parents known about child snatching gators on that enticing beach, I doubt they will set a foot at this property.
3
This reply SICKENS me. If people would take the time to read more than one source before placing judgement you would have learned this child was ankle deep wading in the water a mere few feet from his father. They were out at 9:00 because it is DISNEY and at the Grand Floridian they run night movies outside and they have fireworks. I've been to this Resort. I myself have waded ankle deep in that Lagoon with my small children and played by the water on the sand. There are NO signs warning of alligators posted on this property. This family was from Nebraska so I'm assuming alligators in a man made Disney Lagoon would be the last thing on their mind while watching their children. The only signs say No Swimming. He wasn't swimming. People need to STOP placing blame on the parents for something that was a compete freak accident. Shame on you for not supporting this poor family in their time of grief.
1
"Lane Graves was doing what any 2-year-old boy would be doing on a hot Florida evening — splashing around in the shallow waters of a lagoon."
Um, absolutely not. There isn't anyone here who would allow their toddler to splash in a shallow lagoon at night. I wouldn't allow my toddler to splash around a lagoon period ESPECIALLY at night. I understand they're from Nebraska but it's common knowledge that alligators are all over this state. I'm not saying what happened isn't tragic. It's heartbreaking! But clearly whoever authored that sentence is clueless. It's perhaps one of the most absurd statements I think I've ever read from the NY Times.
Um, absolutely not. There isn't anyone here who would allow their toddler to splash in a shallow lagoon at night. I wouldn't allow my toddler to splash around a lagoon period ESPECIALLY at night. I understand they're from Nebraska but it's common knowledge that alligators are all over this state. I'm not saying what happened isn't tragic. It's heartbreaking! But clearly whoever authored that sentence is clueless. It's perhaps one of the most absurd statements I think I've ever read from the NY Times.
14
Victim shaming, awesome. I would love to hear your thoughts on the Stanford rape case.
3
"There isn't anyone here who would allow their toddler to splash in a shallow lagoon at night". Well, right off the bat you are wrong. I have been at that Lagoon ankle deep with my own small children at night and playing on the sand. Life guards weren't far away and said NOTHING about it being a danger or that it wasn't allowed. A No Swimming sign means no swimming. A sign that says "Beware of Alligators" is the sign that should be there. They were out there at night for the fireworks and the outdoor night movie that the Resort runs. This family was blindsided by a freak accident. I'm so tired of people placing blame on these poor parents. How about some compassion?
2
You embarrass yourself
The family didn't understand
It was movie night on the beach with a zero edge and lawn chairs and no signs
The family didn't understand
It was movie night on the beach with a zero edge and lawn chairs and no signs
2
Disney is responsible for this. From other accounts, a different guest saw an alligator right near the shore an hour earlier and told management, who seemed unconcerned. He told some other parents, and they took their kids right off that beach, a natural reaction. A few days before, other guests took video of an alligator just sitting underwater, with only its eyes out. If the sign said, "No Swimming, Alligators," I'm sure the parents would never have let their little boy anywhere near that water. Disney micromanages everything - and I believe they did a cost analysis somewhere comparing the cost of a lawsuit vs scaring their guests, who want a real "magical" kingdom in which mice talk and dance and alligators who eat children don't exist. Shame on them.
7
Source of your information about alligator sightings?
1
This family did NOT wander off the beaten path. Search for "Disney Grand Floridian beach" and view the resulting images. Disney created an attraction that was intended to be used - note the beach chairs. Disney must have been aware of the potential danger, albeit a rare event, but made the decision to accept the risk on behalf of its guests. Given that, I hope that Disney is punished well beyond the coverage of its cost-benefit-analysis-backing insurance policy (my retirement stock portfolio be damned!).
10
You hit the right point. "no swimming" sign is a diversion. Disney wants to protect their profits. Using slave labor to make their dolls in east asia, and firing IT workers to replace with software coolies is not enough. They have to lull parents into a false sense of security and promise a magical gator ridden beach. They should of course be sued to the moon for this criminal negligence.
2
Everything at Disney World is fake and artificial except for alligators. Not a good combination. That place should be dropped.
8
Why is it that the alligators get punished for being alligators? And why do five alligators in the lagoon get euthanized? The fellow creature (alligator) is not the "bad guy" here and rounding up five in response to the normal act of one is not appropriate, in my opinion.
7
I'm sort of surprised at the number of readers who said there should have been 'Beware of Alligators' signs instead of 'No Swimming' signs. There's a plethora of reasons why people should stay out of various bodies of water, including chemical pollution, rip tides, red algae, protection of endangered species, steep drop-offs, various types of stinging or predatory creatures, and so on.
In parts of Florida I've seen 'It Is Illegal to Feed the Alligators' signs, which are there because some people seem to think they need the whole experience when on vacation, including close-up contact with dangerous wildlife. And they do try to attract these creatures, signs or not. I guess it takes a tragedy like the loss of a little boy to make it clear that the whole world isn't as safe as your living room, and warning signs are there for a reason.
In parts of Florida I've seen 'It Is Illegal to Feed the Alligators' signs, which are there because some people seem to think they need the whole experience when on vacation, including close-up contact with dangerous wildlife. And they do try to attract these creatures, signs or not. I guess it takes a tragedy like the loss of a little boy to make it clear that the whole world isn't as safe as your living room, and warning signs are there for a reason.
10
You need to read again. Parents are not at some wild location. They are at a premium family resort, with a "manmade beach" which is advertised heavily. Look at the brochure for this resort.
2
Zoos are not "wild places" but are occasionally in the news due to tragic accidents that involve animals because people disregard warning signs. This family will never recover from the horrific loss of their child, but hopefully the little boy's death will make other parents more aware.
I feel terrible for this family, but even if the sign had a warning regarding Alligators, if you could see a sign that said: "NO SWIMMING" and ignore it, what would lead any of us to believe that the alligator sign would have been a deterrent enough for the family.
A No Entry sign does not necessarily state all of the dangers that may exist if you violate the sign, but it still should be a strong enough warning for all to not enter. This is the same for "No Swimming" whatever the reasons, just do not swim there.
A No Entry sign does not necessarily state all of the dangers that may exist if you violate the sign, but it still should be a strong enough warning for all to not enter. This is the same for "No Swimming" whatever the reasons, just do not swim there.
4
The little boy was not swimming. Are there that many people who really don't understand what swimming is?
2
@newshound: must the sign say "you may not do the Australian crawl, but you can do the breast stroke or back stroke?"
Geez Louise. The toddler was in the lagoon. He was wading, splashing, playing. That is what children do in pools. Go to your local pool and tell me if the small children are doing laps.
Wading is swimming. Splashing is swimming.
Do you realize a toddler can drown -- at home -- in a soapy bucket of water? like a mop bucket? Or in a toilet!!! Look this up. It is a serious danger and every year, dozens of toddlers die just this way.
The child could have DROWNED in 2-3 inches of water -- since the parents were busy watching a movie!!! They were far enough away that that they had to rush into the water to try and save the kid. They left a TWO YEAR OLD unsupervised, in the water, in a "no swimming" area.
Geez Louise. The toddler was in the lagoon. He was wading, splashing, playing. That is what children do in pools. Go to your local pool and tell me if the small children are doing laps.
Wading is swimming. Splashing is swimming.
Do you realize a toddler can drown -- at home -- in a soapy bucket of water? like a mop bucket? Or in a toilet!!! Look this up. It is a serious danger and every year, dozens of toddlers die just this way.
The child could have DROWNED in 2-3 inches of water -- since the parents were busy watching a movie!!! They were far enough away that that they had to rush into the water to try and save the kid. They left a TWO YEAR OLD unsupervised, in the water, in a "no swimming" area.
Tibby, The sign said No Swimming. No one was swimming. Standing ankle deep and splashing isn't swimming.
We northerners take that to mean No Swimming, as in going into the water where it's deep and drowning is possible. Especially on a nice Sandy beach with beach chairs, which signals the shore itself is safe.
An alligator warning would have prompted different behavior from the parents. Stop blaming them. Kids fall into gorilla pits, get run over 10 feet away from their watchful parents, and disappear into the mall while mom is putting the change in her pocket. Every parent is mere days away from being tabloid news.
We northerners take that to mean No Swimming, as in going into the water where it's deep and drowning is possible. Especially on a nice Sandy beach with beach chairs, which signals the shore itself is safe.
An alligator warning would have prompted different behavior from the parents. Stop blaming them. Kids fall into gorilla pits, get run over 10 feet away from their watchful parents, and disappear into the mall while mom is putting the change in her pocket. Every parent is mere days away from being tabloid news.
9
Beautiful child. rip.
2
I do wonder if FL in general should publicize gator safety the way Alaska does bear safety.
13
Florida should definitely do this. Colorado and California warn people in parks and wilderness areas about wildlife, but Florida is by far the most dangerous state I've ever lived in when it comes to wildlife being in populated areas. We've seen panthers, bears, poisonous snakes, and more alligators than you could count -- all of them in suburban areas full of homes. Why the resorts don't bother to educate their guests is beyond any reasoning.
Disney isn't Florida. Everything, including the lagoons, are artificial. You could not build it today, probably....
I would think that the water is bottomed by swimming pool concrete circulated by a pump well hidden somewhere and probably dyed the right color. I'd not think a wild waterway in the middle of Disney world.
Disney...nope, wouldn't be thinking gators. How dare Florida intrude on Reedy Creek ?
I would think that the water is bottomed by swimming pool concrete circulated by a pump well hidden somewhere and probably dyed the right color. I'd not think a wild waterway in the middle of Disney world.
Disney...nope, wouldn't be thinking gators. How dare Florida intrude on Reedy Creek ?
5
The "zoo" really wasn't "safe" in this case, was it? Money over people?
Look at that beach. Sure I would not swim, but I would definitely take my shoes off and have a nice stroll in the water, ankle deep.
14
I am disgusted by all of the commenters trying to lay blame. Blame does nothing to help grieving parents who will, regardless, blame themselves for the rest of their lives. I can't even speak of my disdain for the bottom feeding lawyers who will prolong this family's tragedy by dragging out a lawsuit to their own profit.
There is NO ONE to blame here. It was a horrifying, but unforeseeable tragedy. Statistically, the child was more likely to die in a car crash on the way from Nebraska, or by a lightening strike on the beach. Should parents never let their kids ride in a car or go outside? Should Disney have to warn people that there is lightening in Florida, or that travel to their resort by car is dangerous? This wasn't some ride that malfunctioned after neglected maintenance and killed someone, it was a force of nature. Are humans so arrogant to think that every tragic death is preventable?
Please, let's support this family, who will indeed never be the same, and stop soothing your own horror with blame.
There is NO ONE to blame here. It was a horrifying, but unforeseeable tragedy. Statistically, the child was more likely to die in a car crash on the way from Nebraska, or by a lightening strike on the beach. Should parents never let their kids ride in a car or go outside? Should Disney have to warn people that there is lightening in Florida, or that travel to their resort by car is dangerous? This wasn't some ride that malfunctioned after neglected maintenance and killed someone, it was a force of nature. Are humans so arrogant to think that every tragic death is preventable?
Please, let's support this family, who will indeed never be the same, and stop soothing your own horror with blame.
15
Agree-bad stuff happens and people jump to blame.
I mostly agree; only thoughtless, ignorant people would blame parents when they are distraught from losing their children in freak/tragic accidents.
However, if Disney knew that there were alligators in the lagoon they should better protect innocent visitors with a better sign.
Like, um: "Alligators in the lagoon" ?.
However, if Disney knew that there were alligators in the lagoon they should better protect innocent visitors with a better sign.
Like, um: "Alligators in the lagoon" ?.
1
Absolutely horiible. Nothing will replaced the families child and no amount of money will either.....
That being said, Disney should no way be responsible for the event. No swimming means NO SWIMMING. You are in Florida there are dangers lurking everywhere: alligators, water snakes, poisonous spiders. Nature is nature and an accident is an accident.
Of course the parents are going to try and sue. They need to prove to themselves that they are not at fault for their loss and their own negligence. That is part of todays society "put the blame on someone else and take no responsibility for your own actions'.
So next time there is a shark attack in Florida you can sue the State because they didnt warn you that sharks are in the ocean....please
Again my heart goes out to the family and their loss however accidents are accidents
That being said, Disney should no way be responsible for the event. No swimming means NO SWIMMING. You are in Florida there are dangers lurking everywhere: alligators, water snakes, poisonous spiders. Nature is nature and an accident is an accident.
Of course the parents are going to try and sue. They need to prove to themselves that they are not at fault for their loss and their own negligence. That is part of todays society "put the blame on someone else and take no responsibility for your own actions'.
So next time there is a shark attack in Florida you can sue the State because they didnt warn you that sharks are in the ocean....please
Again my heart goes out to the family and their loss however accidents are accidents
50
The child was not swimming, he was wading at the water's edge. There's a big difference between signs saying "No Swimming" and "Beware of Alligators." Families come to Disney from all over the world, including places that don't have alligators. Why not warn them to stay away from the water's edge instead of creating a man-made beach which suggests that it is safe to walk there?
2
Standing ankle deep in the shallows getting your feet wet is not "swimming." As someone who is not from Florida, I would *never* in a million years expect alligators to be roaming around the Disney complex preparing to eat my child. From the picture, this beach looks like it is set up for the family to do exactly what they did - sit, enjoy the view, maybe get their feet wet. Please do not blame this family for doing what 90% of people would do, letting their little one splash around at the edge of the lagoon where he was not "swimming!"
The child was not "swimming". He was probably splashing in the shallows the way many children do as well as adults.
Disney was wrong by not putting signs alerting the beachgoers to be aware of alligators that could be lurking in the waters as they normally do.
If you are on vacation on a beach that is there purposely to relax and have some fun, how does Disney not alert the visitors there can be alligators lurking nearby? And even though Disney has a crew that its sole purpose is to watch for problem alligators, they can't be everywhere at the same time.
Alligators have been known to enter private swimming pools so it's not far fetched to have the sense to alert visitors to the possible danger in a lagoon that is tailor made for the beasts.
Disney was wrong by not putting signs alerting the beachgoers to be aware of alligators that could be lurking in the waters as they normally do.
If you are on vacation on a beach that is there purposely to relax and have some fun, how does Disney not alert the visitors there can be alligators lurking nearby? And even though Disney has a crew that its sole purpose is to watch for problem alligators, they can't be everywhere at the same time.
Alligators have been known to enter private swimming pools so it's not far fetched to have the sense to alert visitors to the possible danger in a lagoon that is tailor made for the beasts.
1
My prayers and condolences to the family. To me it's shameful that anyone can blame these parents. A family resort, especially Disney, is a place where you can relax in a secure and safe place. A child at the edge of the lagoon is not unreasonable unless there are signs stating Alligators lurking, which was not the case here. Disney is 100 percent responsible for its reckless design and maintenance of its property. Shame on Disney!
11
What a beautiful little boy. The pain his parents must feel cannot be imagined by any of us. They will need all the support their families, friends and community can give them, for a long time. My heart breaks for them.
87
My sympathy to the boy's family, especially his parents, who are very likely feeling guilty for not keeping a closer watch on their little one.
Disney World should be held responsible for stocking their man-made lagoon with killer alligators and not posting warning signs, or building a fance around the lagoon.
Disney World should be held responsible for stocking their man-made lagoon with killer alligators and not posting warning signs, or building a fance around the lagoon.
9
The fault is completely in the signage. Standing near the water's edge, even splashing around at its edge, is definitely not swimming. But in Fantasyland the main concern is appearances and predator warnings would ruin the atmosphere. Execs of Orlando's tourism industry are already breathing a sigh of relief that the tragedy will in the end be viewed as a 'freak accident', acting as an 'awareness piece' to educate the public about the dangers of getting too close to an alligator. WHAT? Again, the sign said 'no swimming'. It said absolutely nothing about alligators. And it should have. The alternative is to advise tourists from landlocked regions to first research the realities of the Fla ecosystem--where gators show up everywhere, even on golf courses.
17
I agree with you completely. I took my children to that same resort when they were little. I am aware that Florida has alligators but it would never occur to me that they would be lurking in the lagoon at the Grand Floridian. Signs specifically need to say, "Danger: Alligators in the water. No swimming or wading. Keep out!" Additionally, the "beach" with sand makes the water look inviting for wading which is not technically swimming.
3
As a parent with a 2 year old boy who goes to South Florida frequently I am well aware of the dangers of Florida wildlife. A family from my town who moved there several years ago had their child die from a snake bite in their backyard, a young girl in Ft Lauderdale was snatched by a gator and the police found the blonde hair in its mouth, a man's remains were recently found in a gator. There has been a rise in gator attacks recently. Can it be the the introduction of invasive species like the boa constrictor, Nile Monitor lizard has affected the gator's food supply pushing them to go after human's more?
4
I remember the first time that I came to Florida. I was 8 or 9 years old, riding in the back of the family station wagon with my little sister and the cat, sometime around 1964. I vividly remember an incident where my dad pulled the car over to the side of the road after dark for a nature call. When he got out of the car he left the car door open and I was literally terrified that an alligator was going to climb into the car and eat all of us. Even as an 8 year old, decades before the internet or even color television, I identified Florida with the danger of alligators.
3
This boy's tragic death will lead to the round up and subsequent killing of hundreds of alligators in the Greater Orlando area and beyond. It will lead to better signage at Disney and other amusement parks with bodies of fresh water on their property. It will lead to innovation in trying to devise a way to keep alligators out of places like Disney. This one little boy's death will spur change and action.
Forty-nine people were gunned down. Just the latest number in a string of mass shootings in this country. Those 49 dead will lead to talk. And more talk. Then nothing.
How can one alligator and one dead boy spur so much change and yet 49 dead spur nothing but more talk? Maybe if the alligator had a gun....
Forty-nine people were gunned down. Just the latest number in a string of mass shootings in this country. Those 49 dead will lead to talk. And more talk. Then nothing.
How can one alligator and one dead boy spur so much change and yet 49 dead spur nothing but more talk? Maybe if the alligator had a gun....
35
My thoughts are heavy, and my heart stings for these parents who surely are finding themselves in a deep state of mourning for this sudden and tragic loss of their adorable little boy.
Counter to most of these commenters who seem far too quick to try to litigate a mindless blame-game less than 24 hours after this tragedy, I blame- no one. Why? Because some times accidents are just that, accidents, and yes, this one was a heart-breaker.
These were young, relatively new and inexperienced parents who were vacationing in what in essence for them, was a foreign biological landscape, compared to their familiar landlocked mid-west Nebraska. Their guard was down since, after all, they were on vacation, it's a time to relax, not put up anxious defenses or incite panic or fear. If anything, I think many of us could possibly relate to idea that, yes, we were all young and green once, and only thru the passing of time does one begin to understand fully the consequences of our younger years of naivete.
My message to this family- my deepest sympathies, from my family to yours, and but there for the grace of God, we move forward, albeit slowly.
Counter to most of these commenters who seem far too quick to try to litigate a mindless blame-game less than 24 hours after this tragedy, I blame- no one. Why? Because some times accidents are just that, accidents, and yes, this one was a heart-breaker.
These were young, relatively new and inexperienced parents who were vacationing in what in essence for them, was a foreign biological landscape, compared to their familiar landlocked mid-west Nebraska. Their guard was down since, after all, they were on vacation, it's a time to relax, not put up anxious defenses or incite panic or fear. If anything, I think many of us could possibly relate to idea that, yes, we were all young and green once, and only thru the passing of time does one begin to understand fully the consequences of our younger years of naivete.
My message to this family- my deepest sympathies, from my family to yours, and but there for the grace of God, we move forward, albeit slowly.
50
A well written message. Sincere condolences. Prayers are with the parents.
3
That's why there's the saying, "There's a first time for everything". And knowing that people are in the proximity of predators just begs the use of common sense warnings.
It is literally the first such occurrence since the park's creation in the 70s. No previous attacks of any form on anybody ever.
As horrible as the death is, I can see why the park doesnt have 24 hour daily patrol of a 200 acre lake. It will be interesting what the park does now after the fact.
14
I have worked at DisneyWorld in the past, and Disney Security does patrol the Lagoon as much as possible in security boats. It's a large, man-made lagoon with plenty of ways for alligators to get in. Disney was and has been actively relocating the gators as soon as they knew of one.
Unfortunately, it's Florida, and the state's crawling with gators. Disney's been open for years, and not one alligator death. Guarantee a few people have been bitten, though. You won't hear about it, because Disney's not going to come out and say it outright. They'd rather pay for the guest's trip themselves and bend over backwards instead of getting bad reviews.
Unfortunately, it's Florida, and the state's crawling with gators. Disney's been open for years, and not one alligator death. Guarantee a few people have been bitten, though. You won't hear about it, because Disney's not going to come out and say it outright. They'd rather pay for the guest's trip themselves and bend over backwards instead of getting bad reviews.
4
Heart wrenching. Such a beautiful boy.
The parents will blame themselves but it is not their fault, it is not their fault.
The parents will blame themselves but it is not their fault, it is not their fault.
62
Its not Disneys fault either.... Mother nature is mother nature
3
Except that it is. If the child had been in a kiddie area or in bed they'd be getting on the monorail now. Their lax choices led to their loss and the killing of several innocent creatures.
1
Please tell me how a resort, catering to families with small children, on a beach where they are showing children's movies, about to show fireworks based on said children's movies, and where they explicitly tell you to go to watch said fireworks, is anything BUT a kiddie area.
Heartbroken for this poor family. And repulsed by the flood of parent-shaming and "if that was my kid..." anecdotes on this comment page and all over my Facebook feed. The grief this family must be feeling is incalculable, knowing that their child suffered such a grotesque and terrifying death. Do the parents really need the peanut gallery's criticism to compound their anguish?
Bravo to all you flawless parents out there who have never taken your eyes off your children for one second and who are apparently all aware that a "beach" at a Floridean resort is merely a decorative breeding ground for an apex water predator.
I grieve for this family and for the many people who seem to lack any empathy or compassion for their horrible loss.
Bravo to all you flawless parents out there who have never taken your eyes off your children for one second and who are apparently all aware that a "beach" at a Floridean resort is merely a decorative breeding ground for an apex water predator.
I grieve for this family and for the many people who seem to lack any empathy or compassion for their horrible loss.
137
Well said. Is it these internet snipers are mean, thoughtless people who assume the worst of people they know nothing of? Or is it the supposed anonymity of the internet allows people to be much more petty than they would dare in a face to face meeting? Anyone in my profession would take a quick look at this incident after-the-fact and conclude it was an accident waiting to happen. The only question would be which poor unlucky souls would have to live with it. I look at my own son, a kid who loved splashing around in ponds and streams, and cannot imagine I could bear to take another breath if this had happened to him.
5
Those same "perfect parents" attacking this unfortunate family smugly vilified the mother of the toddler at the Cincinnati Zoo. Like an alligator they lurk in wait, happy to pounce on another unfortunate victim. People boost their self esteem in strange ways; I would like to think that empathy would also work but apparently it is not as satisfying as smugness.
4
It's not about being flawless. All of us who are parents have made mistakes at times.
But did you tell your kid "sure go touch a hot stove!" or "how about we run out into the street while the light is red?"
This wasn't some unmarked beach somewhere, or a backyard pond. It was in a theme park and it was CLEARLY MARKED NO SWIMMING.
It was an awful, ghastly tragedy -- that was 100% preventable. The Disney resorts have pools galore at every hotels and motel and campground. Why go into an area that says NO SWIMMING?
But did you tell your kid "sure go touch a hot stove!" or "how about we run out into the street while the light is red?"
This wasn't some unmarked beach somewhere, or a backyard pond. It was in a theme park and it was CLEARLY MARKED NO SWIMMING.
It was an awful, ghastly tragedy -- that was 100% preventable. The Disney resorts have pools galore at every hotels and motel and campground. Why go into an area that says NO SWIMMING?
2
people keep pointing to the signage,,that's great and all but said signage DID NOT mention alligators. Disney knew they were present, acknowledged that they have removed others in the past, but yet no sign warning you of a possible alligator attack if you did go into the water. this is on Disney, plain and simple.
71
Parents broke the rules plain and simple. That would be like going to a Florida beach and getting attacked by a shark and then suing the State of
Florida because they did not post signs every 10 feet saying danger sharks are in the ocean...
Florida because they did not post signs every 10 feet saying danger sharks are in the ocean...
2
The child was not swimming.
2
"parents broke the rules plain and simple."
No. Just wrong. The sign said "No swimming." The kid was not swimming. 'Plain and simple,' at least to those of us who understand English.
No. Just wrong. The sign said "No swimming." The kid was not swimming. 'Plain and simple,' at least to those of us who understand English.
1
When I first read about this, I thought "How could these parents let there kid swim in a lagoon?" I was imagining something that seemed like a swamp.
Seeing these pictures, with the beautiful beaches, I can now totally understand how the parents could have let their child splash around in it, despite signs that say "No Swimming."
Seeing these pictures, with the beautiful beaches, I can now totally understand how the parents could have let their child splash around in it, despite signs that say "No Swimming."
57
I know it makes no difference now but a 2yr old splashing in a few inches of water isn't swimming.
"No Swimming" is a means businesses use to limit their liabilities for drownings and not having to employ Life Guards.
It's just one of those weird accidents,
"No Swimming" is a means businesses use to limit their liabilities for drownings and not having to employ Life Guards.
It's just one of those weird accidents,
1
I'm sorry -- does "no swimming" mean something different in the language you speak?
To me, it means DO NOT GO SWIMMING HERE. Because it is dangerous somehow. There are alligators or the water is filthy or the water is very deep.
I am gobsmacked parents would let a TODDLER swim in an area that says NO SWIMMING.
To me, it means DO NOT GO SWIMMING HERE. Because it is dangerous somehow. There are alligators or the water is filthy or the water is very deep.
I am gobsmacked parents would let a TODDLER swim in an area that says NO SWIMMING.
1
I can't understand it, the sign is there for a reason.
This is easy. Get rid of the alligators in 7 Seas Lagoon and Bay Lake. Every single one. Force Disney to foot the bill. The sign you want to see 3 years from now: "This lake is guaranteed alligator-free".
Condolences to the family.
Condolences to the family.
12
Agree……as a consumate travelor,cruiser etc. life requires one to be vigilant
as when walks down the street ……Iam a former New Yorker..forty yrs….Disney unfortunately will take the hit for this and they should ……there should be no predators who can run 35 MPH on ground anywhere near humans lounging…this should be alligator free……perhaps there has been increased breeding due to its endangered species..ask the scientists….this is like a remake of the Jurasic Park…..movie but with alligators instead of Dinasors
as when walks down the street ……Iam a former New Yorker..forty yrs….Disney unfortunately will take the hit for this and they should ……there should be no predators who can run 35 MPH on ground anywhere near humans lounging…this should be alligator free……perhaps there has been increased breeding due to its endangered species..ask the scientists….this is like a remake of the Jurasic Park…..movie but with alligators instead of Dinasors
2
That sounds like a Trumpism: i.e ban all Muslims and terror attacks will end.
To quote Malcolm from Jurassic Park..life finds a way. No possible way to contain nature unless maybe you put the entire park on 10 foot high stilts. Maybe Disney could build a wall around it park. This was plain and simply a horrible tragic accident. At best Disney can ban all access to it's beaches.
To quote Malcolm from Jurassic Park..life finds a way. No possible way to contain nature unless maybe you put the entire park on 10 foot high stilts. Maybe Disney could build a wall around it park. This was plain and simply a horrible tragic accident. At best Disney can ban all access to it's beaches.
Alligators there are part of the natural environment, the article mentioned that fencing them out isn't a possibility since they also swim. Your suggestion is akin to declairing 'This land is deer free!' after chasing a few out of your yard. Guess what? They're coming back as soon as you step back inside.
1
Blame Disney. Blame the family. Blame the gator. 40+ years without an incident, in THE largest tourist attraction in the world, and now Disney's been wrong the entire time? I know that's what the trial bar would want people to believe, but unless you're determined to demonize Disney, I'd suggest looking at it from this (not Disney's) perspective. Is there any reason why they (Disney) wouldn't take any precaution they could to eliminate this threat? It's obviously not in their corporate best interest to have toddlers snatched by gators. I think they take well-intended precautions, they (Disney) have no evidence to the contrary that their measures are inadequate (again, literally millions of visitors over the many years of operation, no incidents until now), so I'd expect they'll make changes in the aftermath. But it doesn't make them in some way negligent for taking actions that have worked without incident for many preceding years.
18
You are probably right on the money on intent. It looks to me like Disney assumed they'd done enough, having the wildlife patrols and the "no swimming" signs, and considering the 40 years free of alligator incidents. And I admit, I've been going to this report for forty years, have stayed in all the lagoon-side hotels and even taken small boats out in the lagoon, and always assumed if there were a gator present, a person would just see it and leave - with the low numbers of gator attacks on people, thousands less than dog attacks, it's not like they see humans as prey. It would be easy to talk oneself into thinking the gator issue was covered.
Flip side, in every fatality case I ever had, a lack of imagination led someone involved to a lower safety standard than what was needed. Disney seems to have been negligent in thinking through what could happen at this lagoon, not much different from a wildlife refuge, and where regular events such as beach movies were presented to bring visitors to the shore. Not with bad intentions, just a little too optimistic, but since it's their lagoon, and the guests can't be presumed to have a working knowledge of the habits of Florida's wildlife, Disney appears to be completely responsible for the death of this child.
Flip side, in every fatality case I ever had, a lack of imagination led someone involved to a lower safety standard than what was needed. Disney seems to have been negligent in thinking through what could happen at this lagoon, not much different from a wildlife refuge, and where regular events such as beach movies were presented to bring visitors to the shore. Not with bad intentions, just a little too optimistic, but since it's their lagoon, and the guests can't be presumed to have a working knowledge of the habits of Florida's wildlife, Disney appears to be completely responsible for the death of this child.
64
Disney micromanages everything. Do you really think an accountant for Disney didn't do a cost analysis comparing the rare death and lawsuit to people avoiding their resorts and beaches because of the alligators that were not uncommon in that lagoon?
Disney knew alligators were common there. They gambled and the little boy lost.
Disney knew alligators were common there. They gambled and the little boy lost.
1
The thing with gators is....you just don't know. You usually can't see them. They sort of float, with just their eyes above the surface. If they have fed already, they lay there very quietly.
So you can have gators and not see them. It's not like some Tarzan movie where they are out all the time.
When you do notice one, you want to give it a wide berth. They run surprisingly fast. They are not the slow, lumbering beasts you see on TV.
They are very primitive, probably unchanged since the Jurassic era. And they predate humans in Florida. The land is theirs, not ours. We need to treat them with respect.
So you can have gators and not see them. It's not like some Tarzan movie where they are out all the time.
When you do notice one, you want to give it a wide berth. They run surprisingly fast. They are not the slow, lumbering beasts you see on TV.
They are very primitive, probably unchanged since the Jurassic era. And they predate humans in Florida. The land is theirs, not ours. We need to treat them with respect.
3
As many of you are aware, the famous Yosemite National Park - Vernal Falls is carefully signed with black on yellow warning signs (with words like DEATH and EACH YEAR) and pictographs of people going over the watery edge. Despite the guard rails, a handful are swept away each year. Regardless of elaborate signage, nothing beats common sense - even in paradise.
21
People have fallen off the sides of Niagara Falls -- despite many signs saying "stay away from the edge" -- and gone over it, or drowned in the river feeding into the falls.
There is no cure for human stupidity.
There is no cure for human stupidity.
1
Florida, Alabama, Louisiana, Mississippi and Texas are all rife with alligators.
I have walked through park paths in Texas which had tall grass to your left and right flattened by the movement of alligators.
Putting up a "Danger, Alligators!" sign along the Gulf Coast is kind of like putting up a sign in the West "Warning, Coyotes!" They are so ubiquitous, probably the only logical place to have warnings would be at the airport when you first arrive.
I have walked through park paths in Texas which had tall grass to your left and right flattened by the movement of alligators.
Putting up a "Danger, Alligators!" sign along the Gulf Coast is kind of like putting up a sign in the West "Warning, Coyotes!" They are so ubiquitous, probably the only logical place to have warnings would be at the airport when you first arrive.
21
South Carolina also.
It's FLORIDA, and anytime you're in a new environment, watch your kids and your surroundings! There is no place on earth that will completely keep you save, and it isn't Disney's job to supply common sense.
27
Perhaps it isn't Disney's job to supply common sense but it is their job to provide adequate warning. A no swimming sign is insufficient notice that alligators live in that lagoon. This family is from Nebraska, not Florida, I am sure that a reminder about alligators would have helped them keep their child safe.
2
Please, Adeline, I don't think you get it. Please think of it this way. If you had a visitor in your home, you wouldn't make a broken chair in your house the most inviting and would certainly caution guests not to use the broken chair. While no where is perfectly safe, facilities provided by the place where you are staying are presumed to be not life threateningly dangerous. At a resort, I can't possibly imagine that the bed sheets are made from recycled Brillo pads, hence I shouldn't roll around too much on the bed. Why might I believe that the resort sheets were made from recycled brillo pads because a resort exists to make money.
Another jab at parents to watch their kids while they were already close by. Do you mean leash your kids? Sigh.
1
Tourism throughout Florida will suffer because of this--because Disney chose not to warn parents about alligators.
16
Honeybee, that is dumb. It's like saying every city has to warn people that there are bees -- or mosquitos -- or that if you run into the street, you might get run over by these strange moving things called "cars".
Gators are EVERYWHERE in Florida. I lived there, and was about 4 miles down the road from Lake Jessup --officially, the most alligator infested lake in all of Florida. The lake is virtually wall-to-wall gators. I think they tried to count them once, and came up with something like 20,000 gators....in one lake.
Tourism won't suffer, because Florida has always had gators. Attacks on humans are actually pretty rare. Gators prefer to eat things like fish -- and pets.
I find it extremely disturbing that a SCHOOLTEACHER would not recognize that people -- probably intelligent, educated professionals -- who see a sign saying "NO SWIMMING" should ... not go swimming.
Gators are EVERYWHERE in Florida. I lived there, and was about 4 miles down the road from Lake Jessup --officially, the most alligator infested lake in all of Florida. The lake is virtually wall-to-wall gators. I think they tried to count them once, and came up with something like 20,000 gators....in one lake.
Tourism won't suffer, because Florida has always had gators. Attacks on humans are actually pretty rare. Gators prefer to eat things like fish -- and pets.
I find it extremely disturbing that a SCHOOLTEACHER would not recognize that people -- probably intelligent, educated professionals -- who see a sign saying "NO SWIMMING" should ... not go swimming.
1
For heaven's sakes, almost every trail entrance in southern california has "Watch out for Rattlesnakes" signs!
23
We have stayed there. My kids have been on that beach. I have sat on those swing seats in the picture. I would have thought -- and did expect when we were there -- that Disney patrolled their waters and, like everything at Disney -- sanitized it for family fun. Every inch of Disney is fake and fun -- fake and fun. It is a fake, fantasy environment. And the signs -- don't swim? That does not cut it…. How about: Beware of alligators and other wildlife... Disney blew it, the kid is dead… heads should roll, and the cheque book should be brought out. Prayers for the family. PS the picture looks like it was taken from a neighboring hotel… perhaps the Polynesian?
43
If there were no sign, you'd be right.
And you cannot "patrol for alligators". They are part of the natural environment. They come and go. This gator could have meandered over from another water source. They can live almost anywhere with a foot or two of water. They are around, since the Jurassic era, because they are incredibly tough, adaptable predators.
This gator could have simply wander over that day. There is no particular reason to assume this was his regular hunting ground -- for one thing, the staff would have noticed a gator hanging out. They like to sun themselves on rocks or beaches inbetween swimming.
Disney is FULL OF nice, clean chlorinated swimming pools -- every hotel and motel -- many have 2 or more pools. Swim there. That is safe.
And you cannot "patrol for alligators". They are part of the natural environment. They come and go. This gator could have meandered over from another water source. They can live almost anywhere with a foot or two of water. They are around, since the Jurassic era, because they are incredibly tough, adaptable predators.
This gator could have simply wander over that day. There is no particular reason to assume this was his regular hunting ground -- for one thing, the staff would have noticed a gator hanging out. They like to sun themselves on rocks or beaches inbetween swimming.
Disney is FULL OF nice, clean chlorinated swimming pools -- every hotel and motel -- many have 2 or more pools. Swim there. That is safe.
1
What about all the boating on Disney World's waters?
When we visited last April, our only boating was on the Lagoon in the transportation ferries one takes from one resort to another & to the Magic Kingdom. Even the smallest of these ferries most likely places its passeters high enough to be safe from alligators. I'm no expert, but based on some quick research just now, it seems alligators only rarely jump onboard watercraft, & those cases involved small, low-profile motorboats or canoes.
But I see at Disney's website that they rent kayaks, canoes, pedal-boats, wakeboards, waterskis, jet skis & "Sea Raycers" (which another site descibes as "little two person boats that are more enclosed than a jet ski").
As noted, I'm no expert, but I've read that alligators could be present in *any* Florida freshwater lake, river or stream; that Floridians take precautions but accept that alligators are "just a part the natural order" down there. As the Times article notes, alligators can relocate over land. I've also read that the FlL alligator population is growing.
So what about Disney visitors renting, say, a kayak? Does Disney even give them a gator warning, and instructions on what to do if one stumbles upon one? Alligator attacks are supposedly rare, since most alligators fear humans. But in light of this tragedy & a growing gator population, *is* it reasonably safe to kayak in Florida?
When we visited last April, our only boating was on the Lagoon in the transportation ferries one takes from one resort to another & to the Magic Kingdom. Even the smallest of these ferries most likely places its passeters high enough to be safe from alligators. I'm no expert, but based on some quick research just now, it seems alligators only rarely jump onboard watercraft, & those cases involved small, low-profile motorboats or canoes.
But I see at Disney's website that they rent kayaks, canoes, pedal-boats, wakeboards, waterskis, jet skis & "Sea Raycers" (which another site descibes as "little two person boats that are more enclosed than a jet ski").
As noted, I'm no expert, but I've read that alligators could be present in *any* Florida freshwater lake, river or stream; that Floridians take precautions but accept that alligators are "just a part the natural order" down there. As the Times article notes, alligators can relocate over land. I've also read that the FlL alligator population is growing.
So what about Disney visitors renting, say, a kayak? Does Disney even give them a gator warning, and instructions on what to do if one stumbles upon one? Alligator attacks are supposedly rare, since most alligators fear humans. But in light of this tragedy & a growing gator population, *is* it reasonably safe to kayak in Florida?
35
It is my impression that they DO warn people. And I recall going on one of the water rides -- can't remember the name, something about Jungle? It has animatronic hippos and such along the way. And the boat operator told us all to keep hands and anything else OUT OF THE WATER, as every body of water in Florida potentially has alligators in it -- real ones, not paper mache.
1
Unless they were specifically warned, folks from Nebraska would never even think about alligators being a danger. Especially not at a resort in Disney World.
84
Not only families from Nebraska but anyone who doesn't live along the gulf coast and is not aware of the threat from alligators. This is a place of fantasy, for family fun. One assumes the "happiest place on earth" is also the safest place for children, of course under the supervision of the parents. This little boy was standing in ankle deep water on this "man-made" beach. How could these parents imagine that he was in danger.
2
you really can't be serious.
2
Alexandra Hamilton: I am not at all blaming this family...but I am commenting on how absolutely ridiculous it is to think that people from Nebraska would not think about there being alligators in Florida!! I live in Massachusetts where there are no alligators and I most certainly think about them and do my research when I travel to states that have them! On a recent trip to the South Carolina coast, I did inquire about their prevalence where we were staying. Eyes wide open.
2
The 'No Swimming' sign should have included 'Alligators in Lagoon'. That might've deterred the parents from letting the kids approach the water.
I don't see why they had to kill 5 of them, don't we consider approaching ANY alligator to be dangerous to begin with?
I don't see why they had to kill 5 of them, don't we consider approaching ANY alligator to be dangerous to begin with?
30
It's a tragedy, really, to kill 5 gators without any indication of which gator did this. ANY gator over maybe 3 feet can potentially attack and kill a child.
To say "any Florida water source can have gators" is stating the obvious.
Also there are many other good reasons to obey the sign -- what if the lagoon dropped off suddenly and was very deep? or slippery? or had sharp rocks?
The parents were arrogant and foolish. This is a bit like parents who let their toddlers travel in a car without a car seat or seat belt -- because "the kid doesn't like it and just wiggles out -- or whines and cries". Parents are the problem here. Their stupidity led to the death of their own child. What a horrible tragedy.
To say "any Florida water source can have gators" is stating the obvious.
Also there are many other good reasons to obey the sign -- what if the lagoon dropped off suddenly and was very deep? or slippery? or had sharp rocks?
The parents were arrogant and foolish. This is a bit like parents who let their toddlers travel in a car without a car seat or seat belt -- because "the kid doesn't like it and just wiggles out -- or whines and cries". Parents are the problem here. Their stupidity led to the death of their own child. What a horrible tragedy.
1
They in all probability, killed as many as they could capture to see what was in there stomach...imo
1
The parents thought they were at Disney World, not Jurassic Park.
There was no sign saying "Alligators in lagoon, may attack." No Swimming, was the only warning and the two year old was wadding. There is no hint that the Grave's were preoccupied or inattentive.
There was no sign saying "Alligators in lagoon, may attack." No Swimming, was the only warning and the two year old was wadding. There is no hint that the Grave's were preoccupied or inattentive.
Tragic but raises question of parental failure, cell phone preoccupation, inattention despite great love & dedication.
Toddlers are vulnerable & the world is tricky. in wild life settings, hold their hands !
Toddlers are vulnerable & the world is tricky. in wild life settings, hold their hands !
12
Yeah. If I were Disney's lawyers I'd be asking for the parents' cell phone records. Was anyone even watching the toddler?
What an outrageous thing to say. These people were not on safari in some "wildlife" setting. They were at a modern, family centered resort.
1
Even if your complete attention is on that child, when an alligator attacks, no human would be able to wrestle a prey (poor Lane) from its jaws, not even the most attentive of parents. It's dark, it's late, it's a beach you shouldn't swim in, so yes, the baby should not have been in the water in the first place, but the parents can't be blamed for not being able to save this child from one of nature's most dangerous predators, alligators, which are common in Florida...
Devastating. There should have been much more urgent warnings than "no swimming." As someone who has only been to Florida once and that over 40 years ago, I would not be expecting alligators in the shallows where the only sign said "no swimming." I would assume that getting my feet wet (wading) would be fine.
My heart aches for the family. I hope they can take some small comfort from the fact that it was very quick and the tot likely had no time to experience what was happening.
My heart aches for the family. I hope they can take some small comfort from the fact that it was very quick and the tot likely had no time to experience what was happening.
64
If you thought that, you would be a fool. Do you normally just jump into waters that say "no swimming"? You never think "hmmm....it says no swimming, so something here is dangerous?"
The article says the lagoon is 14 feet deep in places! Would you just jump in, with no clue how deep it goes?
You seem to want life to give people a "pass" to be idiots and fools and ignore warnings. Do you also touch hot stoves, just to see if they are really hot? Cross the street when the light is red, because "hey, I don't see any cars coming"?
The article says the lagoon is 14 feet deep in places! Would you just jump in, with no clue how deep it goes?
You seem to want life to give people a "pass" to be idiots and fools and ignore warnings. Do you also touch hot stoves, just to see if they are really hot? Cross the street when the light is red, because "hey, I don't see any cars coming"?
1
"I hope they can take some small comfort from the fact that it was very quick and the tot likely had no time to experience what was happening."
It is very likely that the child drowned and there is no comfort in that for the parents. Drowning prey is what alligators do.
It is very likely that the child drowned and there is no comfort in that for the parents. Drowning prey is what alligators do.
1
I was born in FL, we see alligators on an almost weekly basis. While the city claims the lake outside my home is "gator free" you will not see anyone swimming or getting close enough to find out.
When you are in FL, everyone should be aware, there are alligators Everywhere.
When you are in FL, everyone should be aware, there are alligators Everywhere.
I don't think it's unreasonable to expect that Disney should have signs posted that accurately describe the risk alligators present at their resort. People go there from all over the world, and a "no swimming" sign does nothing to explain the risk of gators. The fact that this kind of situation hasn't happened in 30 years only means they've been lucky up to this point.
.
That said, this poor family isn't from some other country where they may be totally unfamiliar with Florida's gators. Maybe I'm giving too much credit but are there many Americans who don't know about the danger gators present in Florida?
.
I'm bothered by the fact that they've already killed several gators, for no real reason. The alligator was only doing what alligators do. Unlike the gorilla who was killed while he still had the child in his possession, this child was already dead. What is the point of capturing and killing a number of gators when they'll never know if they've gotten the right one. And even if they do, so what? No one is any safer because of it.
.
That said, this poor family isn't from some other country where they may be totally unfamiliar with Florida's gators. Maybe I'm giving too much credit but are there many Americans who don't know about the danger gators present in Florida?
.
I'm bothered by the fact that they've already killed several gators, for no real reason. The alligator was only doing what alligators do. Unlike the gorilla who was killed while he still had the child in his possession, this child was already dead. What is the point of capturing and killing a number of gators when they'll never know if they've gotten the right one. And even if they do, so what? No one is any safer because of it.
83
"What is the point of capturing and killing a number of gators when they'll never know if they've gotten the right one." Answer: To gut them in hopes of recovering the child's body."
1
I understood that the gators were killed and examined while the search was still on for the toddler. The authorities hoped to find remains, and offer closure to the family.
Now that the child's body has been found largely intact (in the water), it seems it *would* be pointless to continue capturing and euthanizing alligators-- no way to find out if you eliminate the culprit.
Now that the child's body has been found largely intact (in the water), it seems it *would* be pointless to continue capturing and euthanizing alligators-- no way to find out if you eliminate the culprit.
1
I am very disturbed that they wantonly killed FIVE gators. And they could have easily missed the gator who killed the child. A lagoon that big could host 20 or more gators and you'd never find most of them. They hide very effectively.
No, I do NOT think for a second that American adults who speak English would not realize that gators live in Florida. Or that they can't read a sign that says NO SWIMMING.
Maybe if they were foreigners, or a group of mentally handicapped folks.
Nobody is any safer because they killed 5 alligators, at least 4 of which had to be blameless. It is typical of "overkill" -- let's overdo things, to prove we mean well. Ditto on that poor gorilla -- who killed nobody and did nothing wrong.
The truth is that gators usually do NOT attack humans. That doesn't mean you want to go wading in a lagoon with gators. It means you use some common sense. Stay out of the water, and if you see a gator -- move away quietly but quickly. They can run really fast.
No, I do NOT think for a second that American adults who speak English would not realize that gators live in Florida. Or that they can't read a sign that says NO SWIMMING.
Maybe if they were foreigners, or a group of mentally handicapped folks.
Nobody is any safer because they killed 5 alligators, at least 4 of which had to be blameless. It is typical of "overkill" -- let's overdo things, to prove we mean well. Ditto on that poor gorilla -- who killed nobody and did nothing wrong.
The truth is that gators usually do NOT attack humans. That doesn't mean you want to go wading in a lagoon with gators. It means you use some common sense. Stay out of the water, and if you see a gator -- move away quietly but quickly. They can run really fast.
3
While many commenters seem to hold the parents responsible for doofus behavior in allowing their kids into the water in Florida, WDW is a for profit operation catering to people, including doofuses, from all over the world. I am sure wading at the waters edge is perfectly safe in Nebraska. These people did not know better. But when you are running a business that caters to people from all over, including places where they have never even seen an alligator, you have to run that business accordingly.
These people were not out on a safari. Nor were they standing at the edge of the Grand Canyon, where the dangers of losing their footing were obvious. They were at a vacation resort for families. How were they to suspect that the lake was not "family friendly"? Would MIckey Mouse expose them to such dangers?
These people were not out on a safari. Nor were they standing at the edge of the Grand Canyon, where the dangers of losing their footing were obvious. They were at a vacation resort for families. How were they to suspect that the lake was not "family friendly"? Would MIckey Mouse expose them to such dangers?
340
People have drowned in Nebraska, too. I'll bet there are cases, even there, of people went into creeks or ponds that said NO SWIMMING, thinking "the rules do not apply to ME".
I am sure the shallow water was very inviting. But a big sign said "NO SWIMMING". That means "stay out of the water". The parents were not feeble minded. They knew better. They did it anyways, under the general American idea that "I don't have to follow rules if I don't like the rules".
Actually this is precisely like the Grand Canyon. Or Niagara Falls. The danger was obvious, the signs were there -- but every year a few idiots manage to fall over or in those places anyways.
Mickey Mouse didn't "expose" them to anything. If they had stayed out of the lagoon, they would still have their son. Their horrible loss was purely due to parental negligence.
I am sure the shallow water was very inviting. But a big sign said "NO SWIMMING". That means "stay out of the water". The parents were not feeble minded. They knew better. They did it anyways, under the general American idea that "I don't have to follow rules if I don't like the rules".
Actually this is precisely like the Grand Canyon. Or Niagara Falls. The danger was obvious, the signs were there -- but every year a few idiots manage to fall over or in those places anyways.
Mickey Mouse didn't "expose" them to anything. If they had stayed out of the lagoon, they would still have their son. Their horrible loss was purely due to parental negligence.
3
This is a terrible tragedy, and everything should not be about assigning blame (and the inevitable financial gain after a lawsuit,whether threatened or real). As RM said, many people want the parents to be responsible for their "doofus behavior." When people see a sign saying "NO Swimming" it is not acceptable for them to start parsing the meaning of words, and decide that wading really isn't swimming, and then to turn around and try to hold WDW responsible. When people see a no swimming sign they know that the intent is to tell them not to go into the water. Nor is it necessary to list the unpleasant creatures which might be encountered, such as snakes and gators. It is not up to the guest to decide that he might be ok with meeting a water moccasin but not a gator. Florida is home to Gators, and it would be hard to find someone who is not aware of that. The media have not shown exactly where they entered the water, but we have stayed at this hotel and have not gone into the lagoon because there are plenty of pools available. All that said, this is a terrible tragedy, and my heart goes out to the parents, but rather than focus on blame, we should focus on prevention. No means NO! When in doubt, ask someone who works there.
But this kid did not fall in the water and drown. He was snatched by an alligator.
And according to my dictionary, "No Swimming" means "No Swimming." The imperative to not go in water is, in English, conveyed with the words "Don't Go In The Water."
And according to my dictionary, "No Swimming" means "No Swimming." The imperative to not go in water is, in English, conveyed with the words "Don't Go In The Water."
5
People who live in the southeast, particularly Florida, know to assume that any body of water which you cannot see the bottom of might have an alligator in it, and know that alligators will take any animal smaller than a deer, including young children, when they are hunting. I'm aware of this because my father owns a house in Florida with part of a small lake out back, and I've seen gators in it. Its just a fact of life.
Disney, on the other hand, draws people from all over the world to its parks, many of whom have never seen an alligator and don't know anything about their behavior. Disney absolutely needs to make it clear that the lakes and shores on its property are the natural habitat of alligators, and that it is not safe to wander in or near the water. A simple "No Swimming" sign is just not sufficient.
My heart goes out to the family...
Disney, on the other hand, draws people from all over the world to its parks, many of whom have never seen an alligator and don't know anything about their behavior. Disney absolutely needs to make it clear that the lakes and shores on its property are the natural habitat of alligators, and that it is not safe to wander in or near the water. A simple "No Swimming" sign is just not sufficient.
My heart goes out to the family...
271
Gators have occasionally killed full grown adults. And the water does NOT have to be deep.
My dad lived on a canal in Central Florida, and he had plenty of gators around. In the late 90s, he found a 11 ft gator in garage. He got out an old hunting rifle and killed it.
The gossipy neighbor say him burying the body. (Dad was a vegan, so he didn't try to eat the gator -- some people do, it's considered a delicacy.) They called the police.
In a few minutes, cops were there and they bundled Dad off to jail. It is illegal to kill alligators in Florida without a license. However, the judge was sympathetic to his story and he got off with a small fine.
My point here is that the CANAL was only about 2 feet deep. You could easily see the bottom. The gator had likely wandered into the canal from the nearby lake, looking for food.
A gator is a predator and not very picky about what they eat -- birds, fish, your dog or cat, your toddler, yourself -- it's all just food to them.
My dad lived on a canal in Central Florida, and he had plenty of gators around. In the late 90s, he found a 11 ft gator in garage. He got out an old hunting rifle and killed it.
The gossipy neighbor say him burying the body. (Dad was a vegan, so he didn't try to eat the gator -- some people do, it's considered a delicacy.) They called the police.
In a few minutes, cops were there and they bundled Dad off to jail. It is illegal to kill alligators in Florida without a license. However, the judge was sympathetic to his story and he got off with a small fine.
My point here is that the CANAL was only about 2 feet deep. You could easily see the bottom. The gator had likely wandered into the canal from the nearby lake, looking for food.
A gator is a predator and not very picky about what they eat -- birds, fish, your dog or cat, your toddler, yourself -- it's all just food to them.
3
I agree.
It is "corporatespeak" that is to blame in this very unfortunate incident. In view that the typical U.S. corporation's single most hallowed objective is to make money by selling their products or services, the corporate mindset will pursue all means of dancing around direct and completely truthful language in signage and other communications rather than imply the slightest risk of unsettling their patrons' confidence in placing themselves in the company's hands. Company signs are routinely posted in language too brief and too ambiguous to accurately express the message they are supposed to convey to the targeted audience.
23
I remember when I went to Zion Park I was given a pamphlet on ten ways you can die in the park. It actually was helpful, like check your shoes for scorpions before you put them on and don't back off a cliff when you are taking a picture.
Everyone has seen this story, but obviously Disney needs to post warning signs and also to brief people when they chick in.
I also think it is quite possible that people had been throwing food into the lagoon so they could see alligators. Then when this one returned, and there was no food, it grabbed the child. The signs should say, huge fine for feeding alligators.
Everyone has seen this story, but obviously Disney needs to post warning signs and also to brief people when they chick in.
I also think it is quite possible that people had been throwing food into the lagoon so they could see alligators. Then when this one returned, and there was no food, it grabbed the child. The signs should say, huge fine for feeding alligators.
113
I think Disney does, because I was there a few times, and I remember being on water rides -- the Jungle Cruise particularly -- and the boat operator telling us to keep hands out of the water, because "every body of water in Florida has GATORS" and that even if we did not see them, they were there.
And yes, stupid tourists think it is cute to toss food to the gators. This makes them less fearful of humans. Same thing as feeding bears in Yellowstone Park.
And yes, stupid tourists think it is cute to toss food to the gators. This makes them less fearful of humans. Same thing as feeding bears in Yellowstone Park.
2
The sign should say there may be alligators in these waters, do not wade in them and do not let your children wade in them.
1
Not surrounding the water by some sort of barrier against alligator attacks is like not having a railing on the edge of a Grand Canyon observation deck: You can post signs, but people will still push the boundaries. People, and especially children, have to be protected, when death can happen in an instant.
38
Do you seriously think a railing would stop people from wading in the lagoon?
People fall off the Grand Canyon each year. People fall into Niagara Falls or the river leading to it -- all the time -- and they have solid stone walls and metal railings and signs all over the place.
Why? People always think "I know better" and "it doesn't apply to ME -- I'll be careful!"
Until it does happen. And then someone is hurt or dead.
People fall off the Grand Canyon each year. People fall into Niagara Falls or the river leading to it -- all the time -- and they have solid stone walls and metal railings and signs all over the place.
Why? People always think "I know better" and "it doesn't apply to ME -- I'll be careful!"
Until it does happen. And then someone is hurt or dead.
3
I highly doubt these parents would have been anywhere near the water if there were signs that said "stay out of the water, beware of alligators".
And why is there a lawn chair in the water which looks inviting?
And why is there a lawn chair in the water which looks inviting?
Signs are for people, fences are for animals.
“While this is a tragedy, it was entirely preventable had Disney acted reasonably and not left unwitting tourists at the mercy of dangerous and wild animals that roam its resort,”
Sounds like a scavenger lawyer hoping to profit from a tragedy.
Sounds like a scavenger lawyer hoping to profit from a tragedy.
91
Then basically, you cannot have DisneyWorld and the entire property would have to be torn down -- the buildings razed -- and the land returned to nature.
Because ALLIGATORS ARE EVERYWHERE IN FLORIDA. Literally, everywhere. I lived there, about 45 minutes north of Disney, for years. And I have seen small gators living in drainage ditches. I've seen 4 ft gators crawl out of retention ponds right next to homes (with yards, with kids playing).
This is a fact of life. You cannot prevent gators in Florida anymore than you can prevent sparrows in the Northeast, or rodents, or mosquitos. You can try to contain the problem and push it outside. But you can't just "get rid of all gators in Florida".
Because ALLIGATORS ARE EVERYWHERE IN FLORIDA. Literally, everywhere. I lived there, about 45 minutes north of Disney, for years. And I have seen small gators living in drainage ditches. I've seen 4 ft gators crawl out of retention ponds right next to homes (with yards, with kids playing).
This is a fact of life. You cannot prevent gators in Florida anymore than you can prevent sparrows in the Northeast, or rodents, or mosquitos. You can try to contain the problem and push it outside. But you can't just "get rid of all gators in Florida".
4
No, you do not need to be a lawyer to make sense of this awful incident. "no swimming" does not equal "do not step in the water -- alligators." Wildlife officials were heard to say that alligators had been removed from that water in the past. There's simply been no excuse heard for what appears to be the gross negligence of the WDW corporation.
Agree and am surprised that the NYT would solicit a statement like that and use it as a sort of expert opinion. It seems that the writers were using the news article as an editorial with input from someone who stands to profit from the outcome.
1
I suppose it is worth researching and learning about the environs one is visiting, and obeying signage. But, still my heart goes out...
22
When I see a NO Swimming sign I think, ok, no swimming cause theres no life guard, and people should not be swimming enmasse with no professional safeguards around, {Its always amazed me that the people who cant swim a stroke seem to be the first ones into a deep body of water} Then I might think the water has poisons or chemicals in it, or sewage or hypodermic needles and its not safe.Or itd really really really deep in unexpected areas, or the bottom has dangerous rocks and tree trunks....all excellent reasons for not swimming...and obeying a sign. But theres a difference between going in up to your shoulders and a tiny child splashing in the shallows.If this gator actually lumbered up into foot deep water to attack a child.....yikes.... I suspect the family has a hell of a lawsuit and we shall soo be referring to Graves Land as the Happiest Place of Earth.
1
so, how many alligators were euthanized, I mean, killed? and why aren't we getting the lowdown on the mother, father, uncle etc. criminal history? What time was it, 9 pm? And they were wading in an area with signage telling them not to? I feel for this family, I really do. I held my kIds (2 and 4) extra tight tonight.
22
You aren't getting the lowdown on the family history for one simple reason: this family is white. If they were black, all of the defenders of these parents would be screaming for investigating the parents, and taking the other daughter away.
Sadly, I thought of this too.
Sadly, I thought of this too.
You're asking about the parents' and uncle's criminal histories, and worrying about euthanized alligators, and you "feel for this family"?!? I think not.
Are you sure the whole family was wading in the water? I have not read that anywhere. The news I have read reported that it was only the little boy who was wading. And there was no "signage telling them not to" wade. The sign said "No Swimming." The child was not swimming. One might argue that No Swimming implies no wading either, but that inference would not hold up in court.
Our prayers, and sincerest condolences to the family of Lane Graves. Our hearts ache along with you, and please be assured of our prayers for Lane and your family.
May peace that surpasses all understanding be with you tonight and the difficult days ahead.
In this papal year of Mercy, may we all extend our hearts and hands in prayer for the many devastating events that affect so many this week in Florida. May we all be sources of peace - not condemnation, love - and not hate, grace - and not judgement. Please remember fellow humans, to place yourself in the other persons shoes. Walk a mile. May your experience be that of grace and mercy. So give grace and mercy.
Our love, prayers, fellow hurting hearts and sympathies to Florida/Nebraska and its hurting families this evening. May you remain forever in HIS grip. Rest in Peace Lane.
May peace that surpasses all understanding be with you tonight and the difficult days ahead.
In this papal year of Mercy, may we all extend our hearts and hands in prayer for the many devastating events that affect so many this week in Florida. May we all be sources of peace - not condemnation, love - and not hate, grace - and not judgement. Please remember fellow humans, to place yourself in the other persons shoes. Walk a mile. May your experience be that of grace and mercy. So give grace and mercy.
Our love, prayers, fellow hurting hearts and sympathies to Florida/Nebraska and its hurting families this evening. May you remain forever in HIS grip. Rest in Peace Lane.
52
Beautifully written. I also give prayers and condolences to Lane and his family.
1
Thank you for your message. In times like this when horrors strike we need to be reminded that those who suffer tragedies need emotional support not condemnation.
1
"Lane Graves was doing what any 2-year-old boy would be doing on a hot Florida evening — splashing around in the shallow waters of a lagoon."
No child raised in Florida would be splashing around in a lagoon at 9pm. Whether the reason is alligators, toxic waste, or rough water, no swimming means Do Not Go In The Water. They did. They splashed around like prey animals and were treated as such by a predator. Terrible choices by one stupid parent in 50 million got us a four foot net in front of a previously beautiful gorilla exhibit, let's see if it gets us a barricaded lagoon.
No child raised in Florida would be splashing around in a lagoon at 9pm. Whether the reason is alligators, toxic waste, or rough water, no swimming means Do Not Go In The Water. They did. They splashed around like prey animals and were treated as such by a predator. Terrible choices by one stupid parent in 50 million got us a four foot net in front of a previously beautiful gorilla exhibit, let's see if it gets us a barricaded lagoon.
49
No, in most of the USA, "No swimming" means that you cannot go swimming because there is no lifeguard. It does not mean that you cannot get into the water up to your knees.
Now, if the sign said "Alligators. Stay away from the water" that would be something else.
Now, if the sign said "Alligators. Stay away from the water" that would be something else.
365
and no child raised in Florida would be vacationing at Disney. The point is that Disney is full of tourists, who don't know anything about alligators
28
@GMooG: and I guess, nobody from California ever goes to DisneyLAND in Anaheim?
I lived in Florida. We went to DisneyWorld. In fact, residents of the surrounding counties get a hefty discount on tickets; this meant all of our friends suddenly decided to "visit" us and have us buy them tickets.
I lived 40 minutes from Disney and ended up going FIVE times. I'm done, I will never go back. But it is absolutely untrue that locals do not go to the theme parks.
And I still do not get the posters who think a sign saying "NO SWIMMING" means "swim if you want, and don't worry about any possible dangers".
I lived in Florida. We went to DisneyWorld. In fact, residents of the surrounding counties get a hefty discount on tickets; this meant all of our friends suddenly decided to "visit" us and have us buy them tickets.
I lived 40 minutes from Disney and ended up going FIVE times. I'm done, I will never go back. But it is absolutely untrue that locals do not go to the theme parks.
And I still do not get the posters who think a sign saying "NO SWIMMING" means "swim if you want, and don't worry about any possible dangers".
2
If, as evident in other comments, alligators leave their prey under a log or rock to rot before eating it, why wouldn't the searchers first dive the lagoon to look for the boy before killing the alligators to inspect their stomach contents?
31
I assume they did just that, as they discovered the boy -- unmarked -- only 15 feet from where he was taken.
1
To satisfy the blood lust of Americans. No other reason. Ok, maybe to make other guests feel that Disney World IS real, and is really safe, contrary to the evidence.
1
"why wouldn't the searchers first dive the lagoon to look for the boy before killing the alligators to inspect their stomach contents?"
Would you want to dive in a lagoon BEFORE doing your best to be sure that you would not encounter an alligator? I sure wouldn't.
Would you want to dive in a lagoon BEFORE doing your best to be sure that you would not encounter an alligator? I sure wouldn't.
1
What has happened to our society? We are so hateful, so ready to shame and blame.
The next time there's a school shooting I won't be surprised to read,
"Those parents deserve no sympathy. Any responsible parent would home school. How could they send their kids to school knowing full well that such places are known to attract crazed gunmen?"
The next time there's a school shooting I won't be surprised to read,
"Those parents deserve no sympathy. Any responsible parent would home school. How could they send their kids to school knowing full well that such places are known to attract crazed gunmen?"
130
You call yourself a student so please learn this lesson: water is inherently dangerous. It's particularly dangerous for young children who are not closely supervised or people who are impaired in any way (the infirmed, people who are inebriated, etc.). In fact, many drownings occur to people who panic when they get a leg cramp while swimming. Children have even drowned when ejected from boats wearing a life jacket. Water can be dangerous just like fire. So, hopefully this innocent little boy will not have died in vain, and parents will be more careful with their children around water.
My sincerest sympathies to the family.
My sincerest sympathies to the family.
2
Not the same thing at all. When you get older you will understand.
My heart goes out to this family. I can't even imagine how I would feel if this tragedy had happened to me, especially at WDW. I must also add that it was not the alligator's fault, so why kill all the alligators that are in that area. They were there before humans inhabited the land. They are natural predators, and you would have to be completely ignorant of Florida's alligator problems to not know most of the lakes, ponds, rivers, etc. are going to have alligators. I feel for this family, but don't blame the gators/blame humans!
55
Of course I feel for them. To lose a child is horrifying in any situation, but to think they were dragged off by a wild animal....it's just unimaginable. They will suffer the rest of their lives over this, money or not.
But they did something incredibly stupid. And there is no getting around it. Just like people who leave a baby in a hot car -- and forget the child is back there in the car seat. The guilt must be awful.
But they did something incredibly stupid. And there is no getting around it. Just like people who leave a baby in a hot car -- and forget the child is back there in the car seat. The guilt must be awful.
1
Not humans. Solely Disney is to blame.
The parents were at fault as was Disney. It's called comparative negligence in legal parlance. I predict that a jury will award the parents around 1.5 million,though they deserve nothing.
43
I doubt it will go to trial. My guess is that Disney will want to settle quickly to get this out of the news.
3
you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about
15
That's an ignorant comment, as a point of law, and a heartless one. Take a good long look at that poor little boy's picture and think twice about what you deem important enough to share with the world.
1
This is so sad. It is the first attack since park has been open. Disney will put up more explicit warnings. I'm sure they didn't before since it would ruin the atmosphere they want to create. It will be settled out of court. And ticket prices will rise even more for folks. I recently chose not to go since one day, one park passes were in the $120 range. My heart goes out to the family. If I were the father, the guilt would be overwhelming signs or no signs. And the lawyers knocking on the door would be almost as bad.
42
It IS obscenely expensive anymore. And I think tickets are more like $150 each. Making a couple of days at the park for a family of four over $600 -- before you figure in lodging and transportation!
I am guessing that they didn't want to make people hysterical about gators, when the park has been in Florida since 1970 and this is the first attack -- 46 years without a problem!
Apparently EVERYONE ELSE saw the "no swimming sign" and figured out you don't take a toddler into a pond that says "no swimming".
And yes, I am sure they will give the family a few million dollars and the problem will go away.
I am guessing that they didn't want to make people hysterical about gators, when the park has been in Florida since 1970 and this is the first attack -- 46 years without a problem!
Apparently EVERYONE ELSE saw the "no swimming sign" and figured out you don't take a toddler into a pond that says "no swimming".
And yes, I am sure they will give the family a few million dollars and the problem will go away.
2
Also the park pass is $120.00, but this resort runs between $400.00 and $1200.00 A NIGHT!!!
You would think for that outrageous amount, your children would be safe ANYWHERE!
You would think for that outrageous amount, your children would be safe ANYWHERE!
1
I am saddned by this and my thoughts go out to them. My only thing is HELLO your in Florida we have all kinds of wildlife as I am sure they do in the families home state but alligators are in all of our fresh waters let alone water that has signs that says NO SWIMMING what would that tell a person to me that would be maybe it's dangerous and I'm not touching it, alligators even end up in our pools so it could happen anywhere so I don't think Disney is to blame for this .
27
no swinmming does not= watch for alligors.
watch for alligators= watch for alligators. people dont spend small fortunes to attend disney to be cautious. that is on disney.
watch for alligators= watch for alligators. people dont spend small fortunes to attend disney to be cautious. that is on disney.
Guess what, Kay? People from outside the southeast are not normally aware about how prevalent alligators are in Florida unless they are warned when they arrive. A simple "no swimming" sign does not give the slightest indication to a person unaware of the alligator risk that an alligator might come out. It could simply mean "we don't want you swimming where we do not have a lifeguard posted because we don't want you suing us if something goes wrong". But a parent letting their child splash in knee deep water, especially in a placid lake as opposed to an ocean beach, would not necessarily assume that there was any risk so long as the parents were watching.
They're from Nebraska! Who would think that while at a Disney Resort that one had to be on the lookout for alligators?
The risk of dying from an alligator attack is 1 in 12 million, according to the Florida Museum of Natural History. That's about 60 times less likely than being killed by lightning (and lightning events are plentiful in Florida). It's also about 100,000 times less likely than being killed in a car accident (and there are plenty of cars in Florida and at the Disney resorts). So blame Disney or not, the minuscule risk of a alligator attack is not something one can seriously worry about, despite a few very sad situations like this one.
26
Accountants have their place in the world. This is not about new math, percentages, bottom lines and ignorant power point presentations. It's about dominion and the value of human life..
Put a 2 year old in a lake splashing around at night and I can guarantee you the odds are better than 12 million to 1.
2
Those statistics are misleading, as they are based comparing the total number of deaths in the US from all causes to deaths from alligator or shark or lightning....if you never go to places where alligators live, your chance of dying in an alligator attack is zero. If you wade or swim in fresh water in Florida the odds are much greater. The reason there are so few deaths from alligator attacks is that most people in Florida know that you cool off by swimming in a pool, not a pond.
1
Amazing how people invoke everything but personal responsibility.
Bottom line is -just as with that poor gorilla - if the parents had been closely supervising the child, the problem and resulting death of innocent animals woukd not have occurred.
So tired of the mayhem and suffering generated by lazy, negligent parents who then want to blame everyone but thenselves.
Bottom line is -just as with that poor gorilla - if the parents had been closely supervising the child, the problem and resulting death of innocent animals woukd not have occurred.
So tired of the mayhem and suffering generated by lazy, negligent parents who then want to blame everyone but thenselves.
52
The parents were bafflingly foolish, but I don't read that they are blaming anyone. I suspect they are barely able to continue living. A little sympathy, please.
What a dope you are.... They werent in the Everglades, they were in a zillion dollar vacation resort. They were screening a movie on the beach and the child was playing in the shallows. No swimming certainly means no swimming....it doesnt indicate GATORS WILL CARRY YOUR TODDLER OFF IF THEY GO ONE FOOT INTO THE WATER.
1
The father was carefully monitoring his son. Unfortunately, the gator didn't decide "hey, you are monitoring your child so I won't grab him". Alligators don't belong roaming freely in resort. A resort that allows them to is negligent. People don't travel to and spend all that money visiting a resort to have to worry and think about dangerous predators walking around.
1
This is a freak corner case event. People fall off and die in the Grand Canyon, or freeze in freak snow storms on Mt. Wrightson outside Tucson, or to over falls in Yosemite, and despite our interest to visit a park where everything is presumably make believe safe and wholesome, on rare occasions, accidents will happen. It's tragic, but how far can Disney go to insulate its visitors from any vestiges of nature? Chop trees in case a bee attack happens in the next decade?
41
A ludicrous comparison. Just read the many comments opposing your argument.
Id have mesh wiring placed in the canals to keep gators from coming in from the wild....and regularly kill off any that were found.
This is unbelievable. What parent takes their children to the state known for alligators and goes to a beach on a lake where alligators are known to be, and let's there child in the water at night when alligators are known to hunt, where there's signs that say no swimming? Sympathy is one thing, but this is just absolute negligence. Parents need to be cautious and follow rules. The sign is there for a reason, if it says "No swimming" and you go in the water, you are not following the rules and you are to blame. Parents should think about paying close attention to their children, or not have children at all. Unfortunately many parents allow their children to neglect signs like "no swimming" and this is the consequence.
That being said, this is a tragic and sad act of nature. We should all feel bad for the family but understand that if the signs were followed and they used simple common sense, their child would not have been in the water. Simple as that.
That being said, this is a tragic and sad act of nature. We should all feel bad for the family but understand that if the signs were followed and they used simple common sense, their child would not have been in the water. Simple as that.
44
I'm sure you are schooled about all wildlife in every state of the USA, and that you are a perfect parent. Or more likely, not a parent at all, and thus even better able to judge parental actions.
25
1) As another poster noted, "No Swimming" in most places doesn't mean don't step in. Those folks used to No Swimming signs because of shark sightings at the beach are still accustomed to walking around in the surf in a foot of water.
2) How much do *you* know about cougars out west? Do you know how incredible they are at stalking you, even if you are running or riding a bike or a horse? I suspect you're no more educated about wildlife in Yellowstone etc. than these folks likely were about large Floridian predators. Alligators move differently than any other creature that non-Floridians have had to consider.
3) Yellowstone is a National Park... this is a RESORT. Expectations are totally different... like exploring on your own in Columbia with a copy of Fodor's in hand, versus boarding a Disney cruise ship for a week to visit sanitized shore excursions with a guide.
2) How much do *you* know about cougars out west? Do you know how incredible they are at stalking you, even if you are running or riding a bike or a horse? I suspect you're no more educated about wildlife in Yellowstone etc. than these folks likely were about large Floridian predators. Alligators move differently than any other creature that non-Floridians have had to consider.
3) Yellowstone is a National Park... this is a RESORT. Expectations are totally different... like exploring on your own in Columbia with a copy of Fodor's in hand, versus boarding a Disney cruise ship for a week to visit sanitized shore excursions with a guide.
3
I am glad I don't know you or anyone like you. As another commenter wrote, "No Swimming" does not state specifically "Do Not Go In Water," or "Danger: Alligators!" Disney is liable for negligence, as are the people (to a much lesser degree) who have been feeding these disgusting and dangerous reptiles.
My parents live near Glacier National Park in Montana, and I've been going there every summer since the early 1990s. Every time I have hiked in the backwoods, my fellow hikers and I have received a detailed orientation about wildlife dangers and what to do if approached by a bear or angry goat, etc. Even those who enter the park casually from any of its entrances (such as West Glacier or Two Medicine Lake) see a sign detailing areas of the park might have bears on the trail, and I've had to change plans many times after a trail closing (usually because of bears but sometimes falling ice and such). Rangers and other park employees have brochures and signs posted about such things as well. The point is, wildlife can be dangerous, and managers of any park or resort have a positive obligation to warn visitors (many of whom are city folk who've never seen a snake, wild goat or bear outside of a zoo) about these dangers and what do in case of a confrontation. It goes without saying that a hot climate such as central Florida has a lot of alligators and poisonous snakes, and Mickey Mouse and Donald Duck cannot protect you against them. I simply do not understand why Disney did not at least post signs. I read that they rounded up and killed at least four gators today in the lake while searching for this poor child. That means they knew alligators were there and had an obligation to do more than post a "no swimming" sign.
78
There were signs that this was a no swimming or wading area from what I understand. I completely understand why someone not familiar with the environment was letting their little guy play in the water a bit for fun or to cool off. It's a tragedy. That's all their is to it.
Also, keep in mind, Alligators have legs and are quite capable of moving.
Also, keep in mind, Alligators have legs and are quite capable of moving.
18
THEY DID POST SIGNS.
And this is not a wilderness or state park. It's just a natural part of Florida.
I lived in a housing development there, all built up -- in an ordinary suburb -- far from any state parks or such -- and we had gators. They were in retention basins or ponds. Occasionally you would read of a gator who turned up in someone's backyard swimming pool! And once, walking my dog, I saw a small gator pop his head up in a drainage ditch -- couldn't be but 18 inches deep, if that.
And this is not a wilderness or state park. It's just a natural part of Florida.
I lived in a housing development there, all built up -- in an ordinary suburb -- far from any state parks or such -- and we had gators. They were in retention basins or ponds. Occasionally you would read of a gator who turned up in someone's backyard swimming pool! And once, walking my dog, I saw a small gator pop his head up in a drainage ditch -- couldn't be but 18 inches deep, if that.
2
I wonder how many of the judgmental Floridians would join hordes of visitors to the Cascade mountains who nonchalantly slow their cars in the presence of bears, roll down their windows and try to feed bears where multiple signs read "Do Not Feed Bears."
1
Thanks to my relatives who inhabit southwestern Florida, I know the environs well enough to keep a respectful distance from any natural body of water there. But a resort that specializes in attracting a diverse clientele from around the country and the world needs to be much more informative in their warnings than "No Swimming".
Frankly though, I wish people had better things to do with their lives than visit Disney. Like visit the library and read books, about alligators and other creatures of the earth.
Frankly though, I wish people had better things to do with their lives than visit Disney. Like visit the library and read books, about alligators and other creatures of the earth.
90
I agree - I never took my kids to Disney because I saw no benefit in taking them to a world that is totally fake. Instead, we went to the ocean, to the mountains, rafting, skiing. The real world. And they knew that when in the ocean, keep an eye out for sharks, and when rafting, hold on, because nothing in life is guaranteed.
3
So you decide to criticize the families choice of vacation in favor of what you think think is a more appropriate choice? I'm betting you have little or no experience with children since you are so sanctimonious in your attitude. I wish the NY Times was a little more diligent in their publication of comments, especially when they are not relevant to a story but simply designed to promote the writers personal agenda of "superior lifestyle". But then that wouldn't contribute to the number of inflammatory comments you thrive on, would it?
Condolences to this family for a loss that will forever change their lives. Such a tragedy. Could this have been prevented?
While so many commenters have averred that a "Danger! Alligators!" sign would have been more effective and appropriate in preventing this tragic event than a "No Swimming" sign, it is important to note that - according to WDW - there had not been a single incident of this nature in the 30 years the venue has been on the site. It would thus be reasonable to say that WDW cannot be called remiss for failing to warn of a danger that was in fact so remote there was no precedent whatsoever to dictate need for such a warning.
If WDW is guilty of anything, they ought to know better than anyone that the fantasy of Disneyland/World creates a sense of wonderment and utter security that lulls not only children but their adult caretakers into a dreamlike state, making patrons vulnerable not only to this but to some far more likely dangers, such as predators of the human persuasion: the pickpockets, con men, counterfeiters, molesters and child-snatchers.
Therefore it is incumbent upon Disneyland/World to protect its family of patrons from all reasonable dangers while they are vulnerable in this uniquely created artificial dream state - and if they fail to do so, then WDW is guilty of neglect.
Unfortunately, affixing blame will not bring their boy back.
While so many commenters have averred that a "Danger! Alligators!" sign would have been more effective and appropriate in preventing this tragic event than a "No Swimming" sign, it is important to note that - according to WDW - there had not been a single incident of this nature in the 30 years the venue has been on the site. It would thus be reasonable to say that WDW cannot be called remiss for failing to warn of a danger that was in fact so remote there was no precedent whatsoever to dictate need for such a warning.
If WDW is guilty of anything, they ought to know better than anyone that the fantasy of Disneyland/World creates a sense of wonderment and utter security that lulls not only children but their adult caretakers into a dreamlike state, making patrons vulnerable not only to this but to some far more likely dangers, such as predators of the human persuasion: the pickpockets, con men, counterfeiters, molesters and child-snatchers.
Therefore it is incumbent upon Disneyland/World to protect its family of patrons from all reasonable dangers while they are vulnerable in this uniquely created artificial dream state - and if they fail to do so, then WDW is guilty of neglect.
Unfortunately, affixing blame will not bring their boy back.
156
To suggest that an alligator infested lagoon with children on the shoreline did not pose a danger because there were no previous incidents is really the height of stupidity.
57
A sign saying be aware and caution that Alligators are in the lagoon. But you can rent a boat on the lagoon. Safety first. I didn't know Alligators were in the lagoon just like the people from nebraska or Maine.
6
Nonsense. Life and safety are not "dream states." Wake up Bub!
1
Having lived in Central Florida for over 50 years, I am intimately familiar with alligator hazards. I treat every single body of water, from lakes and rivers to canals and ponds, as a potential habitat, if not a home, for an alligator, and would NEVER step into the water after dark. Some people mention fencing them off, but I have seen an 8 foot alligator literally climb over a 4 foot high chain link fence like a lizard on a screen door.
You can regulate and warn and put up all the signs that you want. But I guarantee you that there is more than one person out there that thinks that these signs, rules and warnings are meant for everybody except them. And you simply cannot engineer, build and control for every possible exception within a particular population. When something like this happens, yes, of course it is tragic and sad. But the alligator was only doing what alligators have always done. The fault lies entirely with the person who enters their space. And in this case the family apparently even had the option of a nearby safe, guarded pool to use.
You can regulate and warn and put up all the signs that you want. But I guarantee you that there is more than one person out there that thinks that these signs, rules and warnings are meant for everybody except them. And you simply cannot engineer, build and control for every possible exception within a particular population. When something like this happens, yes, of course it is tragic and sad. But the alligator was only doing what alligators have always done. The fault lies entirely with the person who enters their space. And in this case the family apparently even had the option of a nearby safe, guarded pool to use.
40
Yours is the sanest post here. Many thanks.
11
So that is why a sign saying Alligator frequent here . Tourist don't have the 50 years experience of living and knowing the ecosystem. They are there to ride Peter Pan and enjoy the Magical place
38
Alligators have been known to invade swimming pools. If you live in gator country, no body of water is safe.
4
My heart breaks for the parents of this precious little child. And Disney is directly responsible for this child's horrific death which was completely preventable. It's so sad and so shocking.
23
Exactly one year ago I was at this resort walking along the same place where this child was taken, in the evening. Others were doing the same. I am an ex National Park Ranger with a degree in biology. I am not from Florida, I am not familiar with the ecosystem and was at a resort, not a natural area. There were no signs warning of any danger, other than "no swimming". Walking along the shore, splashing in the water, is NOT swimming. There was no reason to expect that anyone, from this child's parents to myself, to have the knowledge that there was this kind of risk. When you enter a national park you are provided with information regarding wildlife risk. There was none provided here. This family has experienced a horror that I cannot imagine. They are not at fault. Stop judging.
561
My deepest sympathy goes out to this family. I can't even imagine what they are feeling and how they will live with such a loss. However, they do hold some responsibility in this tragedy. "No swimming" means stay out of the water. I would not have allowed my child to go near water with a sign that says "No swimming."
17
About 25 years ago my young family went to Disney world. While we were there the space shuttle took off and we were all watching in the sky near the water at Disney World. A lady came up to me and said that there were alligators in the water there and that I should be sure and hold on to my 2 year old son's hand. If this lady had not told me, I could have experienced the same thing that happened to this family. I am from California and had no idea there were alligators in the middle of Disney World. I would not have allowed my child to be in the water but the lady told me that alligators can come out of the water quickly and grab kids. I will never forget that warning. Disney needed to provide signs warning parents of alligators in the water and that alligators can even come out of the water and grab children.
98
Perfectly put.
7
Is being otherwise fully clothed and rolling up your long pants and walking along the edge of the lake in ankle deep water swimming? How about moving your beach chair, provided by the resort, right to the waters edge so that the water laps up on your feet? The issue here is that it wasn't just unsafe to swim, but rather it was unsafe to be at the waters edge and for reasons that would not be reasonably apparent to tourists staying at a Disney resort and who are likely unfamiliar with the risks presented by the local wildlife. So simple to alert guests to the potential danger posed by natural predators either at check in, in the room or on a sign.
84
But the Disney corporation clearly decided not to make such warnings -- wouldn't want to scare away the paying customers.
1
Horrific--
Two things to do now (!)
1. Strengthen the wording of warning signs where alligators are know to inhabit:
Absolutely no swimming or wading --alligators inhabit these waters and can attack causing serious injury or death.
2. Increase fines, significantly, for those who feed alligators, which in this case is not relevant, but often entices them to become too familiar a presence among people and possibly dangerous.
Two things to do now (!)
1. Strengthen the wording of warning signs where alligators are know to inhabit:
Absolutely no swimming or wading --alligators inhabit these waters and can attack causing serious injury or death.
2. Increase fines, significantly, for those who feed alligators, which in this case is not relevant, but often entices them to become too familiar a presence among people and possibly dangerous.
28
Obviously lawyers will now be all over this. There will be warnings in teeny size print. There will be pictures of vicious gators eating stick figures.
There will be ugly and intrusive fences. There will be fines for feeding the gators. The lawyers are cackling with glee, even as I type this.
There will be ugly and intrusive fences. There will be fines for feeding the gators. The lawyers are cackling with glee, even as I type this.
1
My question is. why would Disney build a man-made lake that is not intended to be used by tourists?
This is not some natural lake that Disney built around. It was built to be used and from the picture in the article, to lounge around at.
This is not some natural lake that Disney built around. It was built to be used and from the picture in the article, to lounge around at.
It's relevant in view of the fact that the other gets apparently did feed gators, which possibly emboldened this one.
This was a preventable event. A meteor didn't fall out of the sky and kill this poor child. "Accident" is defined in different ways, but Wikipedia's definition is the one that is most applicable: "An accident is an undesirable incidental and unplanned event that could have been prevented had circumstances leading up to the accident been recognized." Disney had multiple duties to its guests and it failed to carry them out.
23
To add to what I had written: I live in Florida and there is a man-made lake in back of my house. We have had alligators come in through the canals and we have had experts remove them. The alligators can move onto land and would do so and sun themselves on the banks of the other side of my lake. I never walk out there, I keep the screen door locked, and advise people to do the same.
9
And if that family were from Florida instead of Nebraska, I'm sure they would have known too.
@Joyce: my dad lived for many years on a manmade canal off of a lake. His elderly widow still lives there. The area is full of gators. You cannot easily see them. If you go out at night and take a flashlight, you can see the gator eyes shining ... they float just under the waterline, with their eyes peeping out.
You don't always SEE the gators, but they are there. One of the very first things I was told when I moved to Florida is "gators are everywhere....NEVER go into any natural body of water, not even a drainage ditch or retention basin".
You can have experts remove some, and of course Disney killed 4 innocent creatures out of revenge for this child's death -- meaningless -- there are probably 20 or more gators in that lagoon even still.
You don't always SEE the gators, but they are there. One of the very first things I was told when I moved to Florida is "gators are everywhere....NEVER go into any natural body of water, not even a drainage ditch or retention basin".
You can have experts remove some, and of course Disney killed 4 innocent creatures out of revenge for this child's death -- meaningless -- there are probably 20 or more gators in that lagoon even still.
2
this is a terrible tragedy, but there are some holes in the story that are worrisome. I have not read anything that would indicate that anyone else saw this occur. An alligator makes a brazen attack in broad daylight on a two year old boy and nobody sees it or hears the parents scream. That missing corroboration, along with the fact that the body has been found, i.e. the alligator snatched the boy but did not eat him, should give pause to the detectives involved. Of course condition of the body will answer the questions I have raised.
12
Please read the article carefully. The incident occurred at 9PM - in the evening. An alligator remains motionless and is virtually invisible - waiting for its prey to happen by. As with sharks, many will just bite, hold and release.
16
There was a lifeguard that rushed to help the father pry open the alligator's jaws. Your implication that the only ones around, i.e. the parents, were to blame, is horrific. There definitely was a witness.
21
it was on the early evening, but I felt suspicious too about the fact that alligator did n' eat the kid and he was found in one peace having the cause of the death as drowning.
3
Very sad. Disney at fault. Now they must pay big time. No warnings? Why? They knew the risk and they rolled the dice. They probably expected the lawsuit would come and it has. No amount of money is enough. 25 million is conservative.
23
They actually considered that the adults visiting the park were not morons and could read a sign. Silly them.
And it won't even remotely be 25 million. Even the people who died horrific deaths on 9/11 only got an average of 3 million each.
And it won't even remotely be 25 million. Even the people who died horrific deaths on 9/11 only got an average of 3 million each.
2
Becoming stinking rich from their son's blood, how extremely sad is that?!
My deepest sympathies to this family. As with the child in Cincinnati, I wish people would realize small children can slip close to trouble in a split second even if being watched. They are curious and sometimes wander into danger even with careful supervision.
I also wish the animal lovers who seem so much more concerned with other animal life rather than human life would get a grip on reality. Another tragedy waiting to happen is P-22, the mountain lion roaming Los Angeles' Griffith Park, who recently snatched and killed a koala in the zoo also located in the massive
park. Many people seemed to treat this as a joke and "lions will be lions, let him roam free in his home." But the park is surrounded by hundreds of residential houses and filled with visitors day and night. At some point human safety needs to be the priority. P-22 is similar to this alligator; he's again eventually going to do what he was bred to do. It may not be a koala the next time.
I also wish the animal lovers who seem so much more concerned with other animal life rather than human life would get a grip on reality. Another tragedy waiting to happen is P-22, the mountain lion roaming Los Angeles' Griffith Park, who recently snatched and killed a koala in the zoo also located in the massive
park. Many people seemed to treat this as a joke and "lions will be lions, let him roam free in his home." But the park is surrounded by hundreds of residential houses and filled with visitors day and night. At some point human safety needs to be the priority. P-22 is similar to this alligator; he's again eventually going to do what he was bred to do. It may not be a koala the next time.
27
Why is your life more valuable than his? I'm sure animals like living just as much as you do. Humans are animals, extremely conceited ones but still, animals.
9
I disagree that our lives are more valuable than others. We have just figured out a better way to kill other animals than they have us. So what? It just proves we are better killers.
In our part of the country, swimming and wading are completely different. We have nothing to fear in our lakes except drowning. So if a sign posted beside a Washington State lake said "No swimming" locals would not interpret this to also mean "No wading." I would not hesitate to let my two year old wade if there were a "No swimming" sign beside a lake in our state. I know nothing about alligators, nothing, and I'm not the only one. I'm guessing there aren't many alligators in Nebraska as well.
128
It's like that elsewhere, as well: "No Swimming" does not equate to "No Wading".. Or skipping rocks, looking at minnows, or feeding ducks. Even in the alligator infested waters of the gulf coast, where I grew up, signs were posted outlining the risk of alligators. I'd assume this sign meant there was heavy boat traffic, given all the rentals. Also.. The lake was built for swimming, specifically surfing.
16
Here's another issue, though: that lake was murky, with weeds, etc., close to shore. I would definitely have worried that there was a big dropoff that I couldn't see, so why would I allow my 2 year old to play ten feet out without me holding his hand. Even if the only danger was a dropoff, if he steps off and goes under, how are you going to find him at night??
I think the parents should have been smarter about water. I also regularly see parents so engaged in their cell phones that they don't hold toddlers' hands when crossing streets. People need to realize that things happen in a second, and that caution is necessary when raising children.
I think the parents should have been smarter about water. I also regularly see parents so engaged in their cell phones that they don't hold toddlers' hands when crossing streets. People need to realize that things happen in a second, and that caution is necessary when raising children.
I disagree - no swimming in WA state means do not go into the water. Usually the water is contaminated.
1
Alligators in a lake, in Central Florida, man-made or not. Who would have ever thought such a thing possible. To blame anyone other than themselves should not be tolerated. Much as one can expect the extremely low probability of being attacked by a shark at the beach, one can expect the extremely low probability of being attacked by Florida's native fresh water dwellers. Tragic, but true.
21
the problem is this "lake" was in a resort area too close to guests. if alligators have been removed by disney on previous occasions its pretty safe to say its dangerous.
Sorry, but to expect gators at a Disney resort might seem logical to Floridians, but it isn't to anyone else. Everywhere else, we would expect Disney to ensure gators weren't there and to inform us if they were. Floridians should realize that they aren't the center of the universe. Disney has international travelers, many of whom come solely for Disney, with no idea that alligators exist in Florida. Americans have no idea of your gator problem or infestation as it sounds from the comments. That Floridians can't grasp that or have more concern for the tourists that keep your economy alive shows that you don't deserve these tourists.
Here at the University of Florida main campus we have beautiful lake Alice. There is no fence between us and a lake that is populated by alligators. But there are very clear signs with bright red letters that indicate the presence of alligators. The message is clear and unambiguous. Visitors and locals are well warned and educated a lot the real dangers.
No swimming doesn't quite inform someone from another region of the real danger at the location they are in.
Tragic. And one that could have, and should have, been avoided. I hope Disney has not indemnified itself from liability here. It's seems there is negligence here.
No swimming doesn't quite inform someone from another region of the real danger at the location they are in.
Tragic. And one that could have, and should have, been avoided. I hope Disney has not indemnified itself from liability here. It's seems there is negligence here.
70
I can't begin to understand how so many of these comments blame the parents. Disney goes to great lengths to create what appears to be (and in most respects is) an attractive, artificial and safe environment for young children. It is not reasonable to expect visitors who don't live in the Southeast to know what kind of wildlife is lurking behind the Disney facade.
"No swimming" signs don't change anything. Beaches are about water and the child was not swimming; he was walking in a few inches of water at the edge of the beach and would have been just as vulnerable to an alligator attack if he had been on dry sand a few feet away. Perhaps signs with a picture of an alligator with open jaws would have been better, but the real issue is why Disney offered a beach that isn't safe to use in a normal fashion.
"No swimming" signs don't change anything. Beaches are about water and the child was not swimming; he was walking in a few inches of water at the edge of the beach and would have been just as vulnerable to an alligator attack if he had been on dry sand a few feet away. Perhaps signs with a picture of an alligator with open jaws would have been better, but the real issue is why Disney offered a beach that isn't safe to use in a normal fashion.
184
My guess is that Disney thought that signs saying to beware of alligators would not be in keeping with the safe, fun image they want to project of their properties.
32
People who have never lived in Florida need to be told to keep their children out of the water (ocean, gulf, and inland water) from dusk to dawn. In the ocean, that is when sharks feed. In the inland water, that is when alligators feed. Alligators can also grab small children on the shore, several feet from a lake, river, or other body of water. Fatal shark attacks and alligator attacks are extremely rare, but that will be cold comfort if your child suffers the "extremely rare" attack. If your children want to swim between dusk and dawn in Florida, stick to swimming pools.
116
I didn't mean for the above comment to sound so brusque. I was just trying to get a warning out to parents before the comments closed. My heart breaks for the parents of Lane Graves. A "No Swimming" sign is totally insufficient to warn of the dangers of alligators, especially since they can lunge out of the water onto land.
61
alligators can run 30 mph for about 20 yards
they lurk in th shallows with only their eyeballs and nostrils above water (they are built so they can submerge w only those2 parts showing) waiting for an unsuspecting animal and then they burst out in pursuit
ive seen alligators catch key deer this way in th everglades
they lurk in th shallows with only their eyeballs and nostrils above water (they are built so they can submerge w only those2 parts showing) waiting for an unsuspecting animal and then they burst out in pursuit
ive seen alligators catch key deer this way in th everglades
25
This was a helpful comment. Educational.
11
This is a tragic accident. I have a 2 year old child so this is especially difficult to hear about. It's also disappointing to read so many unkind comments toward this devastated family from NYT readers. My heart breaks for this family and the terror they endured. My deepest condolences for their loss.
131
Disney took a number of reasonable steps but could have done more. But gong further it's central Florida, they could hunt and kill every alligator nearby on a regular basis and this could still happen, though supporters of wildlife would be up in arms. They could fence off all the water so it wouldn't be so inviting as people here complained about and others would say how terrible that Disney builds walls and fences to keep nature and people separate. They could have posted signs about alligators by the water and people would stand there and take pictures next to the signs so they can post it on social media. It is truly terrible and there's a chance that a lot more energy and effort might have prevented this. I would imagine in the future the park will be more safe and less attractive, a necessary trade off. But all I know for sure is you can already see the lawyers throwing their business cards at the family from inside the print of this news article.
14
A sign that says "No swimming" to me means swim at your own risk.
A sign that says "Danger Alligators" would mean something else.
A sign that says "Danger Alligators" would mean something else.
255