I largely despise the AP Style Guide, and the New York Times' adherence to it in this case is an error. There simply is very little logic in the AP's guidance. For example, according to the AP, Marines is capitalized while soldiers, sailors, and airmen are not (thus insulting the great majority of our military servicemen). Another is the word "president". According to the AP, these two phrases are correct: "President Obama said..." and "Former president Carter said...". But, then again, I recently noted that the AP Style Guide's Internet homepage is not in accordance with the guidance within! So, how seriously can you take it?
3
I am a big fan of the Times' style. When I was a young man in the early eighties, I affected the use of courtesy titles when I wrote memoranda. It gave my writing a distinctiveness that makes me smile to this day.
You might imagine that I was also a fan of all sorts of word topics and etymology. I write this note to remind people and to express my sadness that William Safire's weekly column. His writing and etymological thinking were a pleasure. This article reminds me, happily, that he was not the last person of such sensitivity.
You might imagine that I was also a fan of all sorts of word topics and etymology. I write this note to remind people and to express my sadness that William Safire's weekly column. His writing and etymological thinking were a pleasure. This article reminds me, happily, that he was not the last person of such sensitivity.
1
Amazing how the NYT (subscriber since 1996) is concerned about font and how they might contribute to distraction to the reader. All the while they find more and more ways to pollute nytimes.com with ads that mean nothing to me. The real story is, style is sacred until it meets commerce. Walk the talk.
1
But did you check with al gore before making this change?
Now if they would only update the style manual to require that if a pronounciation is given, it must appear in the first paragraph of a story. There's nothing more jarring than to be learn the correct pronuciation of a name after you've been mentally mispronouncing it about 8 times (headline, pull quote, photo caption, and multiple iterations before the guide). The public editor has said that doing so would overload the lead paragraph, but I think Times readers could handle it.
9
Of course, that should be "pronunciation" - sheesh.
4
Now can my iPhone please be updated so it stops autocorrecting to "Internet"?
4
The Internet might not be happy about this. Pray for Its mercy.
5
There are a lot of negative comments here about using lowercase as a verb.
Well, I for one like it. After all, isn't google now a verb? (I just googled it) How would one prefer to express the act of making a word lowercase?
While we're at it... when we lived in New England we usually said it was raining or snowing. Now that we live in Las Vegas, we say: "it's sunning or it's winding".
Well, I for one like it. After all, isn't google now a verb? (I just googled it) How would one prefer to express the act of making a word lowercase?
While we're at it... when we lived in New England we usually said it was raining or snowing. Now that we live in Las Vegas, we say: "it's sunning or it's winding".
Now, if you could stop reminding us at every opportunity that the Islamic State is "also known as ISIS or ISIL" I would be greatly appreciative. I mean, come on! I've seen that phrase thousands of times now.
1
The reasoning offered by the Times and others to use of lowercase "internet" to refer to the Internet (e,g., interconnected digital networks that employ the Internet protocols and architecture as defined by the Internet Engineering Task Force) marks yet further decline in the quality of the traditional media. The term was never capitalized because it was newly coined or unfamiliar, was a trademark, an acronym. The stated purpose of following the crowd is indeed mundane. That is now how the Times is to be viewed.
2
I concur. However, many of your writers fall into the category of silliness. Have a look at this headline: "Amazing Ways to Do Macaroni and Cheese."
http://cooking.nytimes.com/68861692-nyt-cooking/961504-amazing-ways-to-d...
"Amazing?" "Do" instead of "make?" This is irksome journalistic sloppiness. Do better.
http://cooking.nytimes.com/68861692-nyt-cooking/961504-amazing-ways-to-d...
"Amazing?" "Do" instead of "make?" This is irksome journalistic sloppiness. Do better.
3
I'd rather do dinner out.
It's amazing how much a little stylistic change can liberate. Did anyone notify Chicago? They'll have to revise the "bible" of style, 14th edition handbook of getting it right: Chicago Manual of Style
The CMS is already on its 16th edition (2010), and "Internet" is still capitalized. However, it did finally lowercase "web."
2
"""""Others are doing it, so we think we should, too.""""
When I used to say that to my mother she responded ''' and if they jumped off the bridge would you do it too"""
This a lame excuse for anything, much less from the NYT for something.
When I used to say that to my mother she responded ''' and if they jumped off the bridge would you do it too"""
This a lame excuse for anything, much less from the NYT for something.
1
However, that is exactly the way language works.
4
I disagree with this change, but at least you have a style guide. I will continue to use "Internet".
1
I just want to know if you got permission from Al Gore (the inventor).
1
Why do you not use the two letter abbreviations for states? NYT uses Conn. not CT?
1
When the Times (why is that capitalized ?) starts using lower case for the "Interstate" I will consider your calling the Internet the 'internet"
Within a few more decades ALL 10 billion humans on this planet will be connected to The Internet, which means also they all will be connected to EACH OTHER.
Within a few more decades ALL 10 billion humans on this planet will be connected to The Internet, which means also they all will be connected to EACH OTHER.
2
The Times is wrong here: The Internet is a proper name, and is thus capitalized. It is a prototype of an internet, a lower-case word meaning "an agreement among network operators to exchange traffic for their mutual benefit". There can be more than one internet; The Internet is the big one that became open to the public since around 1993.
A similar term is "country club". The Country Club is in Brookiine, Mass. That venerable haunt of wealthy golfers lent its name to countless other country clubs, but it is the only The Country Club. Likewise, calling The Internet the internet confuses things, and falsely implies that there cannot be other internets.
A similar term is "country club". The Country Club is in Brookiine, Mass. That venerable haunt of wealthy golfers lent its name to countless other country clubs, but it is the only The Country Club. Likewise, calling The Internet the internet confuses things, and falsely implies that there cannot be other internets.
5
I agree with your main point, but I do not agree with your definition of internet. It is a network, not an agreement.
There is a difference between "Internet" and "internet". Since internet was taught to me as to be short for "internetwork", there are many internets, but only one Internet. The Internet being the global public TCP/IP network that evolved from ARPANet. Meanwhile there still exist private internets that use a variety of protocols and connect various things.
6
'to lowercase the word “internet”'
To verbify the word "lowercase"
Seems a bit trendy NYT.
To verbify the word "lowercase"
Seems a bit trendy NYT.
2
That bit of trendiness is trending.
So "A Federal judge ruled NASCAR's Internet presence legal" would be improper. Duly noted.
1
But don't you use Nato? Which at 4 letters, should be NATO?
1
Because it rhymes with Cato, and Plato???
MORE THAN four letters.
@Bill: "But don't you use Nato?" No. The NYT uses "NATO." There's a search button at the top of every page that could have told you that.
3
I've never been able to puzzle out when the NYTimes does and does not use periods in acronyms and initialisms. They insist on things like I.B.M. but they don't do N.A.S.C.A.R.
4
The rule is to use periods when the acronym is spoken as letters (I.B.M. because it's Eye Bee Em, not "Ibbum"; F.B.I. because you don't pronounce it "Fibbi"), and to omit periods when reading the acronym as a word ("Nascar" not En Ay Ess See Ay Are).
5
I always thought the NYT used IBM, not I.B.M. That makes no sense. It's not supposed to as America is still a part of the NYT. We have no secession clause, like Texas, so we Americans are frozen out of freedom to be free. What a country, eh wot? Spot a tea, lass?
I have never seen the word capitalized in U.K. publications. I never quite understood why it was capitalized on this side of the Atlantic, the Times' reasons notwithstanding.
1
When did the NY Times start using "lowercase" as a verb?
16
I see two readers beat me to questioning this.
But I will say it more strongly: lowercase is NOT a verb!
But I will say it more strongly: lowercase is NOT a verb!
1
"On the contrary, our usual goal is to reflect settled, familiar usage among educated readers."
That's why we all endeavor to drop "quotidian" into daily usage.
That's why we all endeavor to drop "quotidian" into daily usage.
14
Please don't take yourselves too seriously.
5
I would imagine that most Nascar fans are easily confused and that very few of them read the Times. Problem solved.
15
OK, drop the capital 'I' but please bring back the second comma in a list of 3 items. It's just too confusing.
31
YES. The Oxford comma avoids ambiguity, which I have noticed a number of times in the Times's usage without it.
5
Finally! I have always thought the Times has been out of touch with this!
Acronyms merit the ALL CAPS treatment because they otherwise look like a misspelled word. Very simple. "Nascar" is not a word; this is confusing. "NASCAR" is quite obviously an acronym. I am still tripping over every ULC acronym.
5
Acronyms can become new words, e.g., laser, radar, scuba. Style guides need to adapt. We would find it odd to see L.A.S.E.R.
Some strings of initials that cannot be pronounced as words also have become functionally equivalent to words, e.g., RSVP.
.
Some strings of initials that cannot be pronounced as words also have become functionally equivalent to words, e.g., RSVP.
.
3
"But since many NASCAR fans are distracted when they see “Nascar,” we may not be succeeding in that case."
Well, you can't please everybody. It would make an interesting demographic study to see how many NASCAR fans are also NY Times readers. Probably some, but I doubt they would constitute a majority enough to warrant an exception to your style rules. Or, if I'm wrong and enough of them see this article to protest loudly enough, who knows? But I shan't be holding my breath on it...
Well, you can't please everybody. It would make an interesting demographic study to see how many NASCAR fans are also NY Times readers. Probably some, but I doubt they would constitute a majority enough to warrant an exception to your style rules. Or, if I'm wrong and enough of them see this article to protest loudly enough, who knows? But I shan't be holding my breath on it...
3
While I do understand the article's reasoning for removing the capitalization in the word "Internet" from a stylistic prospective, but I disagree that we should remove the capitalization in the respect that the Internet is one of the modern marvels of the world. Do we lower case the capital 'P' in Pyramids at Giza? Do we lowercase the 'S' in Stonehenge? Do we lowercase the 'E' or 'T' in Eiffel Tower? No? Then why would we lower case the 'I' in Internet? I mean, once again, stylistically it makes sense, but in historical context it does not fit.
7
The pyramids are definitely lower case. The other two are capitalized because they're proper nouns.
4
The internet is down (style).
5
This is how how our vocabulary evolves, we're good with the internet, just google it.
3
Following up on the NASCAR/Nascar discussion, I believe that only fairly recently has The Times adopted the practice of writing acronyms that are pronounced as a word without periods between the letters (e.g., Nascar or NASCAR) and acronyms that are pronounced as individual letters with periods (e.g., E.P.A). But you continue to place a period after the final letter, which I don't think is necessary when the purpose of the periods is to denote that the letters are pronounced individually and not as a word.
No one except a journalist would think of capitalizing "internet." Good grief, it's not a place.
The Times is catching up!
It took long enough to advocate ending the current prohibition against marijuana (but of course did not advocate ending the entire war on drug users--that would be too discerning).
I am a board-certified psychiatrist.
Think for yourself?
The Times is catching up!
It took long enough to advocate ending the current prohibition against marijuana (but of course did not advocate ending the entire war on drug users--that would be too discerning).
I am a board-certified psychiatrist.
Think for yourself?
1
Where did you read that?
-on the Internet.
Where did you buy that?
-on the Internet.
Usage-wise it does work as a place...almost a country, since it is often tax-free. Could also be the name of a ship, if you need to worry about the use of "on.
I've got no problem with it being grandfathered in with an initial cap.
I often wonder about the newer use of the clumsy word "interwebs", which makes me think the user is either grudgingly accepting its existence, or is in denial about its true existence.
-on the Internet.
Where did you buy that?
-on the Internet.
Usage-wise it does work as a place...almost a country, since it is often tax-free. Could also be the name of a ship, if you need to worry about the use of "on.
I've got no problem with it being grandfathered in with an initial cap.
I often wonder about the newer use of the clumsy word "interwebs", which makes me think the user is either grudgingly accepting its existence, or is in denial about its true existence.
1
I was flabbergasted when I learned (in a class titled "Fundamentals of the Internet" in 2007) that Internet was supposed to be capitalized. It was considered a proper place. I'm glad to see it change, but now I have to get used to the lowercase version. Truth be told, journalism was my minor and my degree is in English with a concentration in writing. Soooo yes most folks probably don't know and don't care. Language evolves. I cringe at the words that get added to the dictionary, but so it goes. Cultural changes because grammatical ones.
1
re: first sentence
Is "lowercase" a verb?
Is "lowercase" a verb?
10
Yes: From the OED:
lowercase, v.
View as: Outline |Full entryKeywords: On |OffQuotations: Show all |Hide all
Pronunciation: Brit. /ˌləʊəˈkeɪs/ , U.S. lower_case#1_us_1.mp3 /ˌloʊərˈkeɪs/
Frequency (in current use):
Etymology: Formed within English, by conversion. Etymon: lower case n.
< lower case n.
trans. To write or print (a letter or letters) in lower case; to start (a word) with a lower case letter.
1895 Critic 27 Apr. 312/2 When pueblo means town it should be ‘lower-cased’.
... ... ...
2010 J. B. Marciano Toponymity 2 In English, we have the funny custom of capitalizing the former [sc. names] and lowercasing the latter [sc. general words].
lowercase, v.
View as: Outline |Full entryKeywords: On |OffQuotations: Show all |Hide all
Pronunciation: Brit. /ˌləʊəˈkeɪs/ , U.S. lower_case#1_us_1.mp3 /ˌloʊərˈkeɪs/
Frequency (in current use):
Etymology: Formed within English, by conversion. Etymon: lower case n.
< lower case n.
trans. To write or print (a letter or letters) in lower case; to start (a word) with a lower case letter.
1895 Critic 27 Apr. 312/2 When pueblo means town it should be ‘lower-cased’.
... ... ...
2010 J. B. Marciano Toponymity 2 In English, we have the funny custom of capitalizing the former [sc. names] and lowercasing the latter [sc. general words].
3
NO!
This is devastating news.
The Times writes: "While the switch might be briefly disconcerting, in the long run we think the uppercase “Internet” would seem out of step."
Dear New York Times,
Please understand that it was the capitalized Internet that has been disconcerting for years. I have never understood why "Internet" is capitalized (the explanation in this article did not really help me there). One of the many things in spell-check functions in word processing, email, etc., that drive me to distraction is their insistance that "Internet" should be capitalized.
So, NYT, I say: Welcome to the 21st Century. Better late than never!
Dear New York Times,
Please understand that it was the capitalized Internet that has been disconcerting for years. I have never understood why "Internet" is capitalized (the explanation in this article did not really help me there). One of the many things in spell-check functions in word processing, email, etc., that drive me to distraction is their insistance that "Internet" should be capitalized.
So, NYT, I say: Welcome to the 21st Century. Better late than never!
2
Actually, weren't cluster and intranet the terms for local internets?
4
A point of fact, no. "Cluster" is a group of machines operating in a coordinated fashion (The original use of the term -- VAXcluster in 1978, denoted a tightly connected set of systems sharing a single file system). An intranet is a network within an organization. The original definitions of Internet and internet are different, and are contained in the RFCs maintained by Internet Engineering Task Force (IETF.ORG). In that context, the initially capitalized Internet is the globally interconnected network. Lesser, private or closed networks, composed of different architectures and operating systems are referred to as "internets". Insofar as the IETF documents coin the usage, in my opinion, and with all due respect, the AP and Times are committing an error.
4
And while we're examining The Times' sylebook, why do I read A.P. in the article, but not N.A.S.C.A.R? Or N.a.s.c.a.r?
Personally, I find periods in abbreviations a nuisance, a distraction. They stick out too much, especially in headlines (to reuse part of the last paragraph of the article).
I know that a foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds, but I do think it's time to sweep the dirt spots out of abbreviations, acronyms and initialisms!
Personally, I find periods in abbreviations a nuisance, a distraction. They stick out too much, especially in headlines (to reuse part of the last paragraph of the article).
I know that a foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds, but I do think it's time to sweep the dirt spots out of abbreviations, acronyms and initialisms!
7
I wonder what William Safire would have said?
4
He would have said much.
I'd prefer Prof. Strunk's opinion.
I applaud this decision. Now if you could just stop using A.T.M.'s, instead of ATMs.
7
That's "ATM machine" [sic] to you, pal. And don't forget not to tell anyone your personal PIN number [sic sic].
2
ha ha ha, who cares?
no one is forcing you to read this article. I actually do care
2
As is the case for Nascar, same for the Patriot Act. Not many people know that Patriot is actually an acronym as used in that Act. (It's true! Look it up on the Internet, oops, I mean internet!)
excellent. now to correct other grammar amercanisms, momentarily.
3
I have to make this brief. My plane is going to land momentarily.
Excellent decision.
I'm curious, though, about the preference in "modern usage" for fewer hyphens. My sense is that I in fact see m o r e hyphens, and that they are used in places where the literate would once never have thought to put them. For example, many people and institutions now consistently use a hyphen to connect numbers to nouns in what is clearly not an attributive usage: * "These past 24-hours have been rough." I also see hyphens linking adverbs and adjectives in what would formerly have been an incorrect way: * "She is very well-dressed." I assume these and other innovations are at their base simply hypercorrections, but they seem to be catching on.
I'm curious, though, about the preference in "modern usage" for fewer hyphens. My sense is that I in fact see m o r e hyphens, and that they are used in places where the literate would once never have thought to put them. For example, many people and institutions now consistently use a hyphen to connect numbers to nouns in what is clearly not an attributive usage: * "These past 24-hours have been rough." I also see hyphens linking adverbs and adjectives in what would formerly have been an incorrect way: * "She is very well-dressed." I assume these and other innovations are at their base simply hypercorrections, but they seem to be catching on.
4
They're just wrong. A hyphen should be used when the hyphenated phrase modifies another word ("I try to sleep for eight hours in every 24-hour period"), but not when the two words stand alone ("In the past 24 hours, I got very little sleep"). In addition, adverbial phrases (newly discovered evidence; well dressed man) generally should not be hyphenated. They are "hyper-corrections" in the way "between you and I" or "my mother and myself" are hyper-corrections: the ignorant trying to sound less so by never using the ordinary objective pronoun "me."
3
I still remember when you wrote articles about the Sex Pistols that referred to Mr. Rotten and Mr. Vicious True to your style book but ridiculous.
It's articles like this that show your thinking there is decades behind the actual times. And why you are so willing to write biased articles supporting Hillary who hasn't changed her idea much in the last few decades, either. Unless she is copying someone even older than she is.
It's articles like this that show your thinking there is decades behind the actual times. And why you are so willing to write biased articles supporting Hillary who hasn't changed her idea much in the last few decades, either. Unless she is copying someone even older than she is.
3
Left out the esteemed Mr. Loaf, of "Bat Out Of Hell" fame.
“The Times’s announcement that we will join The Associated Press this week in changing our style rule to lowercase the word “internet” could prompt many questions […]”
Every time you use “lowercase” as a verb when all you mean is “not capitalized” God kills a kitten.
Just so you know …
Every time you use “lowercase” as a verb when all you mean is “not capitalized” God kills a kitten.
Just so you know …
12
It's possible to overthink the implications of an AP style change. Must have been a slow news day.
5
I thought we should drop the capital fifteen years ago.
2
I have no problem with the use of a lowercase "i" in "internet". But to use "lowercase" as a verb would make Bill Safire turn over in his grave -- and should be deleted from your style rules.
9
If it is in your style manual.
I'd love to see iPhone no longer capitalized when it starts a sentence.
Or iPhone (TM).
Next: e.e. cummings.
Next: e.e. cummings.
Come on, even Microsoft Word picked up on this change years ago. You're way behind the times, Times.
1
Fooey. There's only one Internet, right -- so it's a proper noun.
2
That's like saying, "There's only one sky, I mean, Sky."
2
Perhaps "NASCAR fans are distracted when they see 'Nascar'" because, since using all-caps is equivalent to shouting, they are accustomed to that in order to speak and be heard above the loud din of the racecar roar (not to mention the intense visual noise of corporate ads splattered over every surface).
1
Actually, it began as N.A.S.C.A.R. -- National Association for Stock Car Auto Racing -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NASCAR
2
So, why Realtor? but not Doctor, Lawyer, Writer, or Policeman? That one's always bothered me. If it's the strength of the association behind them, should we look forward to Gunowner?
1
Realtor is a trademark name.
2
Find a copy of the NYTimes or AP stylebook.
"Realtor" (TM) is a trademark of a trade group, the National Association of Realtors (TM), the NAR. Not all real estate agents are "Realtors (TM)," members of the NAR.
And it is "police officer," in general reference. In specific, it is, for example, "Police Officer A.J. Renko."
"Realtor" (TM) is a trademark of a trade group, the National Association of Realtors (TM), the NAR. Not all real estate agents are "Realtors (TM)," members of the NAR.
And it is "police officer," in general reference. In specific, it is, for example, "Police Officer A.J. Renko."
1
Should not be, and should not be treated with such unwarranted respect. A bunch of crooks.
2
Fine. No reason exists to capitalize internet any more than earth, sun, moon, and many other terms that refer to something that is in common use or presence. No one today would capitalize television or telephone.
2
Tsk, tsk. When did you declare 'to lowercase' an appropriate infinitive? It seems to me as though the verb form should still be classified as proofreading slang. Maybe you should back off for, say, another five years?
As for 'internet' instead of 'Internet,' that change strikes me as overdue.
Y'all do a prutty darn good job anyhows. Ya hear? Thanky!
As for 'internet' instead of 'Internet,' that change strikes me as overdue.
Y'all do a prutty darn good job anyhows. Ya hear? Thanky!
4
Next: "google" and "to google," versus Google Inc.
This comment reflects a lack of understanding about "networking" at the time the Internet became a global phenomenon. The Internet uses a particular set of networking "protocols" that at the time were found largely on systems running various flavors of Unix. IBM systems used their own protocols like "Bitnet," and most corporate and office networks used the protocols invented by Novell. None of these employed protocols like TCP or UDP, or the "Internet Protocol" itself, and were incompatible with the "Internet."
Perhaps your writers might have a discussion with Internet pioneers like Jon Postel or Vinton Cerf about how the term arose. You might also consult the "Requests for Comments (RFCs)" from the Internet Engineering Task Force, the entirely open, non-proprietary framework that led to the creation of the global Internet. It was this open process that enabled the Internet to displace the existing proprietary systems and conquer the world. Here's a quick historical summary from your own newspaper written by another such pioneer, Stephen Crocker, back in 2009 on the fortieth anniversary of RFC 1:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/07/opinion/07crocker.html
Perhaps your writers might have a discussion with Internet pioneers like Jon Postel or Vinton Cerf about how the term arose. You might also consult the "Requests for Comments (RFCs)" from the Internet Engineering Task Force, the entirely open, non-proprietary framework that led to the creation of the global Internet. It was this open process that enabled the Internet to displace the existing proprietary systems and conquer the world. Here's a quick historical summary from your own newspaper written by another such pioneer, Stephen Crocker, back in 2009 on the fortieth anniversary of RFC 1:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/07/opinion/07crocker.html
10
.. as in, inter (connected) networking .. INTER-NET-working ..
You are making much more of this change than it deserves. Should never have been capitalized in the first place. Do you think phone or teletype ever were capitalized? Internet is a mere conveyance and not a proper name.
2
Ah, but what about Kleenex, Fridgidaire, etc.?
1