Author reveals ignorance in erroneously claiming "burden increasingly falling on nation's taxpayers" for diminished power sales. Nothing could be farther from the truth. All power purchases that the Federal Government makes to meet contract requirements are passed through to the consumer owned utilities - municipal electric systems and rural electric cooperatives - that purchase the power generated at Glenn Canyon Dam. Federal government has assumed additional costs associated with the operation of Glen Canyon dam in recent years due to efforts to manage the project for recreational and endangered species purposes. See http://ltempeis.anl.gov/index.cfm
1
Forget about the "drug war" with Mexico. Wait until the "water war" starts. You'll see long standing treaties and political alliances collapse as both countries jockey for water rights over the Colorado and Rio Grande rivers. I can just hear Trump now, "They're sending us drugs and now they are taking our water!"
This is really serious people- certainly more serious than an ISIS attack!
This is really serious people- certainly more serious than an ISIS attack!
4
There is another solution in a related article, drain Lake Powell and cover Lake Mead with solar panels to generate more electricity and prevent evaporation.
4
Yet another step along 0bama's path to "fundamentally change America". This time it is to destroy our non-polluting electrical generation capacity, flood control and the equitable provision of water to surrounding States.
5
Wallace Stegner and Edward Abbey were warning us decades ago, and some of us are finally beginning to awaken to what we lose when we dam rivers. One less dam would help us move in the right direction.
8
Jim Lochead the the Phoenix Water Utility head's comment that the regulatory hassle involved in draining Lake Powell made the whole idea "not worth it" shows the ultimate effect of our drive for more and more regulation.
"This is how the world ends, not with a bang, not with a wimper but the shuffle of forms filed out in triplicate."
"This is how the world ends, not with a bang, not with a wimper but the shuffle of forms filed out in triplicate."
5
Alabama averages about 55 inches of rain per year. In 2007, when we "only" had 30 inches, it was called "the worst drought in history". Yet 30 inches is about the average annual rainfall in Seattle, WA. Here in Birmingham, because no consideration was given to the idea that rain comes variably, even here, and that water management needs to account for expanding population, we had water restrictions as stringent as Southern California's. For six months or so, and then the rains came back. If they fail again, we'll be right back to the restrictions, because nothing has been done to plan for the variability of rain and the incremental growth of population.
The lesson? The same as for the Colorado River Basin and the plans made for using its water--rainfall amounts are variable. Usage needs are not. Plan accordingly. And indeed, it seems a better answer to have one good dam instead of two lousy ones.
The lesson? The same as for the Colorado River Basin and the plans made for using its water--rainfall amounts are variable. Usage needs are not. Plan accordingly. And indeed, it seems a better answer to have one good dam instead of two lousy ones.
7
Large-scale fires in the West, dwindling water supplies all cry out for water pipeline from the seas for agricultural and industrial users from nuclear powered desalinization plants. Science points at state-of-art safe and efficient use of nuclear power. Opponents fight back demanding reliance on inefficient solar and wind power, the latter killing endangered bald eagles and other birds in unsustainable numbers. We must implement an energy focused Manhattan Project for the 21st century!
The changing water availability in the west is creating the specter of mass migrations out of the area to the north and Canada and south to Mexico.
The world and Americans are strikingly unprepared for such events, always looking for a better future.
Perhaps at some point the citizens of America and the world will come to see that a better future simply means a sustainable future that may exclude some of the razzmatazz near infinite choices we have in material goods and services.
The world and Americans are strikingly unprepared for such events, always looking for a better future.
Perhaps at some point the citizens of America and the world will come to see that a better future simply means a sustainable future that may exclude some of the razzmatazz near infinite choices we have in material goods and services.
7
The desert southwest is to america what the middle east and south asia are to the world. Too many people living in a place that can't support them, and a place that has long been designated as ground zero for climate change. Just look at all the heat, drought and death happening in India right now. All signs are that the southwest is on a similar trajectory.
Time to wake up and to get her together here folks by using what nature gave us, namely our neocortex and ability to imagine and collaborate toward a more vibrant future. Our window of opportunity is now and there's no time for turning back to our past "solutions" that created the problem in the first place.
Time to wake up and to get her together here folks by using what nature gave us, namely our neocortex and ability to imagine and collaborate toward a more vibrant future. Our window of opportunity is now and there's no time for turning back to our past "solutions" that created the problem in the first place.
13
The article states the waster in the dam leaks out to the Earth below as if it is a bad thing.
This is not true.
The water that leaks into the earth is not lost.
The water that is absorbed by the earth descends to the level where the aquifers are and can be pumped to the surface to be used.
These Aquifers can hold much more water than the dams and none of this water is lost due to evaporation and it cost nothing to maintain.
In addition this water becomes purer as it descends and therefore when brought up is much safer to drink then the water coming from the river which can be polluted.
So if anything they should build these dams where there is leakage.
This is not true.
The water that leaks into the earth is not lost.
The water that is absorbed by the earth descends to the level where the aquifers are and can be pumped to the surface to be used.
These Aquifers can hold much more water than the dams and none of this water is lost due to evaporation and it cost nothing to maintain.
In addition this water becomes purer as it descends and therefore when brought up is much safer to drink then the water coming from the river which can be polluted.
So if anything they should build these dams where there is leakage.
22
Hip Hip Hooray! Out with Glen Canyon Dam! Empty "Lake" Powell and turn the dam into a big wall for rapelling and climbing.
1
Why no mention of the impact of irrigation, and water siphoned off to make snow for ski resorts?
2
Like Mr. Brower, I wonder how much time the author of this article or other anti-dam types have spent in this remote corner of the country. It's easy to seek for change when you live hundreds or thousands of miles away. What about the people, towns, farms, and businesses that rely on this water system? What input do they have?
Maybe Arizonans, Utahns, and Nevadans should start dictating how to manage the NYC subway system. Decades of poor decision making suggest New Yorkers aren't capable of doing it on their own, which has undoubtedly led to increased car reliance and air pollution.
Maybe Arizonans, Utahns, and Nevadans should start dictating how to manage the NYC subway system. Decades of poor decision making suggest New Yorkers aren't capable of doing it on their own, which has undoubtedly led to increased car reliance and air pollution.
8
I don't know that Jim Lochhead's assessment is right about the requirement for decommissioning the Glen Canyon Dam. As we enter a world where water conservation is paramount, since an act of Congress gave authority to build the dam, necessity would dictate that an act of Congress should certainly be enough to tear it down. The seven states may fight over other factors but not over Congressional jurisdiction over the dam's status, and Mexico would be delighted with the increased water flow denied them these many decades. Have you seen the Rio Grande lately? What Rio?
Joseph in Missoula
Joseph in Missoula
3
The desertification of the American West is encroaching upon the Eastern third of Texas. We had a severe drought, 2011-2015, which killed off many treasured trees. If these severe droughts continue the future looks bleak. We need to re-visit water use policies in light of climate change and global warming. This article raises questions and stimulates the need for new and better planning.
4
Decommissioning dams pose complex engineering and environmental issues. Even more complex is the myriad social issues. We need collaboration among all the stakeholders to make these projects work. The US government also needs a robust government to government consultation with the federally recognized Indian tribes. These things were not in place when the dams were built but now we have a chance to restore our ecosystems and human communities. Climate change can bring us together or tear us apart. I pray for the former.
3
Why not float solar panels on at least a portion of Lake Mead, and so reduce evaporation while generating electricity? See the NYT article about this concept:
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/24/science/solar-power-floating-on-water....®ion=Footer&module=WhatsNext&version=WhatsNext&contentID=WhatsNext&src=recg&pgtype=article
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/24/science/solar-power-floating-on-water....®ion=Footer&module=WhatsNext&version=WhatsNext&contentID=WhatsNext&src=recg&pgtype=article
3
If you listen real closely I believe you'll hear Ed Abbey laughing.
9
The usual choice presents itself: Focus on facts or focus on baseless opinion and stubbornness. We badly need the former but we are in general flying headlong as a country toward the latter.
4
Recently a new technology, or a more efficient adaptation of an existing technology, has emerged. Floating solar panels. Dammed up water has the benefit of being released or stored to adjust the quantity of power generated. Solar panels just make hay when the sun shines. Why not decrease the evaporation by covering vast parts of Lake Powell and Lake Mead with solar panels and generate clean power instead of evaporating precious water?
Then water can be conserved, a big plus, and green energy can be generated by the sun in an area where solar power is definitely effective. And the water flow can be slowed through the turbines to balance the solar and the hydro. So the Lakes may even have a chance to refill, providing the leakage and evaporation figures are accurate.
This article from the Times describes one floating solar project. http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/24/science/solar-power-floating-on-water....
This seems like a win win situation, probably all of the reason congress needs not to act!!!
Then water can be conserved, a big plus, and green energy can be generated by the sun in an area where solar power is definitely effective. And the water flow can be slowed through the turbines to balance the solar and the hydro. So the Lakes may even have a chance to refill, providing the leakage and evaporation figures are accurate.
This article from the Times describes one floating solar project. http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/24/science/solar-power-floating-on-water....
This seems like a win win situation, probably all of the reason congress needs not to act!!!
7
Interesting article - however all one has to look at, is the ever dwindling water supplies in Calif. to understand better why the move to 'open' the Colorado River. Rather than all of the States that now share down river benefits from the Colorado, California once again will try to 'grab' the lion's share. Poor conservation issues driven by pseudo economic & residential development in its normal 'helter skelter' way of life is why California continues to be in water troubles and has been for over 70 years, they still don't get it!
1
Not mentioned is a crucial, historical data flaw. The 1922 compact used date from the preceding decades, which we now know were far wetter than typical for the basin, even pre-climate change.
Years ago, a daughter attending the Colorado School of Mines was required to read "Cadillac Desert," for an environmental class. She passed it on to me. Wow! Check the reviews, everyone loves this book. The dark side of the Bureau of Reclamation.
Years ago, a daughter attending the Colorado School of Mines was required to read "Cadillac Desert," for an environmental class. She passed it on to me. Wow! Check the reviews, everyone loves this book. The dark side of the Bureau of Reclamation.
4
Draining Lake Powell will likely result in only a 10, 15, or 20-year solution, since the identical issues will almost surely appear downstream in Lakes Mead, Mohave, and Havasu. If climate change is causing dramatically less upstream rainfall and snowpack, hence proportionally decreased river flow, then that is the root cause of the issue which no amount of dam decommissioning can overcome.
Eco-tourism is also a good cause, but intertwining it with the basic issue of water management, or lack of it, just confuses the public about the relative merits of each.
Eco-tourism is also a good cause, but intertwining it with the basic issue of water management, or lack of it, just confuses the public about the relative merits of each.
3
Opening the gates and draining the lake, without taking down the dam, is a great idea. It's a bad idea to burn bridges when the impact is so great. Who, knows, the next century may be the wettest on record. Then we just close the gates again.
1
Stories like this should stop invoking climate change as a justification for certain actions. We have no idea how climate change may affect the water resources of the Colorado basin. Warmer temperatures may mean more rain & snow in the Rockies, it may mean less. We don't know. Evaporation of course aids humidity and therefore, rain. Seepage aids the water table.
I'm not qualified to know what should be done with this dam, but I am qualified to see the weaknesses of the journalism.
I'm not qualified to know what should be done with this dam, but I am qualified to see the weaknesses of the journalism.
5
The article did not mention another problem with falling water levels. You need more efficient (read newer) power generators. Things things are massive and they do have a cost. Raising water levels in Lake Meade would obviate the need for new devices and save having to put them into Lake Powell.
1
First some more statistics would be helpful. This is an el ninyo year. One would expect the reservoirs to have risen. Is this not the case? I take it no one knows exactly where the water goes through fissures, but if it resurfaces down river through small fissures, this would mean increased evaporative losses. What are the present demands on the river? In agriculture? In home use? How has this changed since 1963? Does the price of the water delivered reflect it's current availability/capacity? This latter is one of two key questions. The other is what was CO2 ppm last year? Did it increase? Without enforceable reduction worldwide of CO2 emissions every year (not next year or manyana, but NOW), droughts--lack of water--in the Southwest will only get worse. Look up Hadley cells: The edges are dry air and will expand northward as the earth's temperature warms. This is already happening.
There is a short term solution here of saving water and rationing (charging a market price for it's use from the Colorado). But long term, and the only solution that makes sense, is to combat global warming/climate change by not burning fossil fuels. A huge reduction is possible on an almost immediate basis by switching to solar/wind with hydro/battery back up. A carbon tax transferred to subsidize purchase of renewables would make this happen.
Politically, I invite you to visit brandnewcongress.org. A Brand New Congress--that's what it will take to get this done.
There is a short term solution here of saving water and rationing (charging a market price for it's use from the Colorado). But long term, and the only solution that makes sense, is to combat global warming/climate change by not burning fossil fuels. A huge reduction is possible on an almost immediate basis by switching to solar/wind with hydro/battery back up. A carbon tax transferred to subsidize purchase of renewables would make this happen.
Politically, I invite you to visit brandnewcongress.org. A Brand New Congress--that's what it will take to get this done.
4
The point of the article is fine: drain Lake Powell, save half a million acre feetof water per year. Why Jim Lochhead thinks that's not significant is a comment on Mr. Lochhead's institutional bias for dams.
1
t is clear that this is a political/eco/left article since the science and logic are so off target. The dam is underperforming because of a terrible drought, one that is likely to reverse in the coming years. The dam itself is a long lived asset - easily good for another 100 years of operation, and as such is a critical asset in the struggle against climate change and for plentiful clean energy. To make a decision about the life of an asset like Glen Canyon, based on a periodic drought in order to placate 'river runs wild' activists masquerading as rational actors would be a huge mistake. Let's see how the drought driven low water levels play out during the current wet conditions, and make rational decisions based on the welfare of the people of the Southwest..
4
It's hard to take seriously suggestions about fixing the water problems in the American West that starts by describing our water infrastructure as leaving us "Saddled with Debt".
There are no "Savings" that will create additional water resources for more exploitative economic development. You can't redistribute what the water system doesn't have. Mother Nature votes last, and her Vote is clearly that someone is going to have less.
Only that intrusive Federal Authority can make those decisions in the absence of consensus on Shared Sacrifice by the members of the Colorado River Compact.
Or we could just let the various State National Guards's shoot it our, it certainly would make for some terrific Reality TV.
There are no "Savings" that will create additional water resources for more exploitative economic development. You can't redistribute what the water system doesn't have. Mother Nature votes last, and her Vote is clearly that someone is going to have less.
Only that intrusive Federal Authority can make those decisions in the absence of consensus on Shared Sacrifice by the members of the Colorado River Compact.
Or we could just let the various State National Guards's shoot it our, it certainly would make for some terrific Reality TV.
2
This was a great article on Lake Powell's history and increasing obsolescence.
Perhaps the most interesting and comprehensive story about water in the western US overall that I've ever read was this New Yorker piece from a year ago: http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/05/25/the-disappearing-river
Perhaps the most interesting and comprehensive story about water in the western US overall that I've ever read was this New Yorker piece from a year ago: http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/05/25/the-disappearing-river
2
Hayduke Lives!
5
You betchya!
2
The idea of bringing back Glen Canyon as a beautiful riparian ecosystem in our lifetime is disingenuous to the point of being a lie. Look at the 100-foot high bathtub ring in Lake Mead and the smaller one in Lake Powell. Plant succession might be rapid, but what about the sediment and its transport?
The Kanab ambersnails at Vasey's Paradise and the southwest willow flycatchers in Grand Canyon will stop the decommissioning of the dam even though neither of them were there before the dam.
I'm in favor of the Colorado River in Grand Canyon being its own natural self, but it's not going to happen.
The Kanab ambersnails at Vasey's Paradise and the southwest willow flycatchers in Grand Canyon will stop the decommissioning of the dam even though neither of them were there before the dam.
I'm in favor of the Colorado River in Grand Canyon being its own natural self, but it's not going to happen.
6
the number one water policy change of the earthlings should be driven by climate change, that all fresh water needs to be preserved from becoming salt water as the ice caps of greenland and the arctic and antarctic melt.
Imagine that the surface of these lakes were covered with solar panels that produced millions of watts of electricity while protecting from evaporation. This is a practical technology and is already being done , in smaller areas, in many places.
4
"Climate change is fundamentally altering the environment, making the West hotter and drier".
Well, there is always a good use for nuclear power in desalination of seawater, of which there is plenty in the oceans. Then, perhaps humankind will eventually overcome its intellectual block and find a way to use solar energy for water desalination and for all other purposes.
Well, there is always a good use for nuclear power in desalination of seawater, of which there is plenty in the oceans. Then, perhaps humankind will eventually overcome its intellectual block and find a way to use solar energy for water desalination and for all other purposes.
3
A possible solution for the future might be solar-powered desalination plants.
1
If we don't do something great, water will be $100 a barrel. I agree that desalination is one, possibly great solution, complex and expensive.
http://seniorjunior.blogspot.com/2008/01/water-some-good-news.html?q=des...
http://seniorjunior.blogspot.com/2008/01/water-some-good-news.html?q=des...
Water isn't "lost" through evaporation or leaks into fissures, it is simply moved to other places.
4
The claim is that Lake Powell loses 160 billion gallons through evaporation and another 120 billion gallons to leakage. That is a total of 280 billion gallons. That sounds like a lot to the average citizen, but it is not that much in the overall scheme of things.
There is a huge and glaring fact missing from this story. What percentage the total flow of the Colorado River does this 280 billion gallon loss represent ? I suspect that it is a very tiny percentage indeed, and opening the gates at the Glen Canyon Dam will have very little overall impact on the water available to end users.
The problem is too many water users, not too many dams. The desert should never have been settled in the first place.
There is a huge and glaring fact missing from this story. What percentage the total flow of the Colorado River does this 280 billion gallon loss represent ? I suspect that it is a very tiny percentage indeed, and opening the gates at the Glen Canyon Dam will have very little overall impact on the water available to end users.
The problem is too many water users, not too many dams. The desert should never have been settled in the first place.
4
Safe clean carbon-free nuclear power and renewables would provide all the power and de-salinated water we want, and allow us to open every dam in the West. But no; we'll stagger on for a few more decades until global warming and climate change force our hand.
1
Interesting to see that this discussion is still ongoing. Maybe read Desert Solitaire by Edward Abbey for an accurate assessment of the quagmire even before Glenn Canyon dam had been build.
3
If you talk to anybody in this part of the country, from the guy working in the gas station to his United States Senator, they will probably tell you how big government enslaves them, robs them through taxation, and is the bane of their existence. Of course these damns-- built by government with taxes paid by city folks-- enabled the population growth of the western sunbelt, not only because they provide water, but also the cheap electricity which powers their air conditioners, without which live would be unbearable. Political irony at its best. Without these dams Republicans would not have the political strength in numbers to cripple the same federal government to which they owe their water, electrical, and political power
2
It looks like the root of this problem is too many people. We are running low on water in the US -- we are not alone. India and Pakistan are going through a massive heat wave and their water resources are being rapidly depleted. The same is true in Africa and the Middle East. The temperatures are rising, the human populations are growing and the water is drying up.
3
It is time to re-think growth. The Democratic party is pushing the Trans Pacific Trade agreement, touting it will help exports of agricultural products. We don't need more exports, we don't have the water.
2
I'm all for draining Lake Powell, but one needs to read deeply into this story to learn that the question of how much water would be saved is not exactly settled. I ask myself: Is the idea just another flight of fancy based on ideology rather than science? Let's see some rigor brought to the question. Yes, we'd all like the land back (so we can trash it with our dirt bikes, pitons, and RVs as we have so much of Southern Utah) but first things first.
3
Anyone but me realize that the majority of problems we face today are due to the solutions that we came up with for the problems we used to have?...unintended consequences....maybe if we stop trying to fix everything so hard the world might just be ok...?
1
"...the likelihood that climate change is certain to make them worse," If there is a likelihood that something is certain then it is not certain, and this is a clever way to sneak an inaccurate word into the argument. I'm glad that the proposal is not to dismantle the dam but to open its gates, because no one knows what the future holds for rainfall in a specific area.
1
I see a couple of recommendations here to read Marc Reisner's book "Cadillac Desert". It is a great overview of the big picture problem of water scarcity in the West and the temporary nature of water capture and irrigation as a solution to those problems. I also recommend reading Paolo Bacigalupi's book "The Water Knife". It is an extremely well written piece of distopian speculative fiction set in the near future and dealing with the fallout of chronic water shortage in the West and the weird ramification of the Colorado River Compact and other archaic legal frameworks diving water law and use in the West.
3
It is little known the Electricity from the dams were instrumental to winning WW2. Thanks to the abundant supply the West Coast became a major manufacturing center for aircraft and other weapons that by shear volume were critical factors in the ultimate victory.
Almost half the water from Lake Meade allocated to the Las Vegas area goes to golf courses and other landscaping. Las Vegas was just forced to spend a billion dollars to be able to draw water out of the lake. Nevertheless it has refused to declare a water emergency that would require stopping water to the golf courses.
For the most part the entire southwest is desert. Without the dams the region would probably only support a 1/4 or less of the 30 million people now in the region.
An enormous amount of food comes out of the region that helps feed the rest of the nation and is exported around the world. The potential impact on the region and the nation is enormous and widely anticipated for 10 years or more. Even so virtually nothing substantive has been done to deal with the problems and impacts.
Put this all together and we have another reminder every action has an equal and opposite reaction. The benefits of the dams have been significant but the consequence are likely to be just as great. It is window into the future as we cope with Climate Change and if how we are dealing with this is any indication we are in for a lot of trouble. You can only bend nature so much before nature bends back at you.
Almost half the water from Lake Meade allocated to the Las Vegas area goes to golf courses and other landscaping. Las Vegas was just forced to spend a billion dollars to be able to draw water out of the lake. Nevertheless it has refused to declare a water emergency that would require stopping water to the golf courses.
For the most part the entire southwest is desert. Without the dams the region would probably only support a 1/4 or less of the 30 million people now in the region.
An enormous amount of food comes out of the region that helps feed the rest of the nation and is exported around the world. The potential impact on the region and the nation is enormous and widely anticipated for 10 years or more. Even so virtually nothing substantive has been done to deal with the problems and impacts.
Put this all together and we have another reminder every action has an equal and opposite reaction. The benefits of the dams have been significant but the consequence are likely to be just as great. It is window into the future as we cope with Climate Change and if how we are dealing with this is any indication we are in for a lot of trouble. You can only bend nature so much before nature bends back at you.
3
Whoa there pardners! We need only extrapolate the drought another 10-20 years--the system has been in deficit (compared to demand) by a couple of million acre-ft per year with a total storage capacity of around 40M acre-ft--and both reservoirs could be virtually empty in that time. As the lakes approach 10% of capacity the water savings expounded in the article should start to become apparent. And the opportunity to save by taking action to decommission Lake Powell will be either obvious to even the BoR, or no longer viable for water savings.
If climate change effects persist then the proposal is really only about savings of 5M acre-ft total over roughly 10 years. BTW that water is worth only about $10B at retail rates--does anyone think Congress will take up this controversy for such small impact?
Bottom line: nothing will happen politically but draining Lake Powell could be inevitable anyway. I am OK with the no-action alternative on this one.
If climate change effects persist then the proposal is really only about savings of 5M acre-ft total over roughly 10 years. BTW that water is worth only about $10B at retail rates--does anyone think Congress will take up this controversy for such small impact?
Bottom line: nothing will happen politically but draining Lake Powell could be inevitable anyway. I am OK with the no-action alternative on this one.
1
I live in St. George, Utah and the local real estate developers are plowing full speed ahead with plans to build a billion dollar pipeline from Lake Powell to St. George for the sole purpose of bringing more water so they can sell more land at inflated values.
Draining Lake Powell would put a stop to this nonsense and save us a lot of money on our water bills.
Draining Lake Powell would put a stop to this nonsense and save us a lot of money on our water bills.
3
Global warming in this region means less water and higher temperatures over time. Since we must assume that the Republicans in Congress will continue to support the profits of the fossil fuels industry even if it means global warming. Trump's leadership means no understanding of global warming, rather conspiracy theories about China trying unhinge our economy.
With global warming temperatures will increase two degrees each decade meaning more evaporation off open storage. With predicted long term droughts, perhaps, 35 years at a time. We must also remember that science is warning that drought will be visited by catastrophic storms meaning a lot of water all at once. The problem with having a Congress that doesn't understand this new reality means that we will build the wrong kind of infrastructure to take advantage of sudden flooding. The dam and reservoir system could be a way to capture flood waters, and divert it to storage in aquifers but that is a different kind of infrastructure.
But it all depends on rain. Rather than confronting global warming we insist on dealing with the problems global warming creates. Rather than dealing with one problem CO2 emissions we must deal with an ever-growing problems that will in time overwhelm our best efforts. And all this at just 1.3 degrees centigrade imagine the 2 degrees centigrade limit, but 2 degrees is only possible if Congress acts and there is no promise it will so what will 4 degrees be like?
With global warming temperatures will increase two degrees each decade meaning more evaporation off open storage. With predicted long term droughts, perhaps, 35 years at a time. We must also remember that science is warning that drought will be visited by catastrophic storms meaning a lot of water all at once. The problem with having a Congress that doesn't understand this new reality means that we will build the wrong kind of infrastructure to take advantage of sudden flooding. The dam and reservoir system could be a way to capture flood waters, and divert it to storage in aquifers but that is a different kind of infrastructure.
But it all depends on rain. Rather than confronting global warming we insist on dealing with the problems global warming creates. Rather than dealing with one problem CO2 emissions we must deal with an ever-growing problems that will in time overwhelm our best efforts. And all this at just 1.3 degrees centigrade imagine the 2 degrees centigrade limit, but 2 degrees is only possible if Congress acts and there is no promise it will so what will 4 degrees be like?
1
"Decommissioning the dam would probably require an act of Congress, a new agreement among seven state legislatures, a revised treaty with Mexico, and a lengthy federal environmental impact analysis."
The tourism interests in Utah and Arizona will oppose a formal decommissioning. The seven states involved currently have 6 Democrat and 8 Republican senators - does anyone think that they could possibly come to any agreement?
The Federal government will decriminalize marijuana before it will decommissions the Glen Canyon Dam.
The tourism interests in Utah and Arizona will oppose a formal decommissioning. The seven states involved currently have 6 Democrat and 8 Republican senators - does anyone think that they could possibly come to any agreement?
The Federal government will decriminalize marijuana before it will decommissions the Glen Canyon Dam.
1
Cynicism and experience cause me to ask, "Who will profit most from the water that will be released from this "government built and owned" dam? T. Boone Pickens is buying up water rights across the south to try to control and profit from it and the top 1% global financial elite would love to control OUR water supplies - for profit. So who is the money behind this movement?
16
If God or Mother Nature or Charles Darwin or Alfred Wallace or Gregor Mendel had intended to dam these rivers then we would not have this dam problem.
Human hubris coupled with innate immature ignorance reminds us that we are not gods nor demigods. Our knowledge both begins and ends with our ignorance. Curiosity and imagination are our only ways forward. There are neither right nor wrong answers to our inquiries and quests. There are only answers that raise even more questions.
We humans only partially "know" the 5% of physical reality that is not a "force" called dark energy (70% of physical reality) nor a "mass" we call dark matter ( 25% of physical reality). What little we know is devilishly diabolically divided by the tiny quantum world and the massive relative universe.
Breaking these dams may bring us way more dam problems than we can ever possibly imagine or manage. There are costs and benefits to every choice.
Human hubris coupled with innate immature ignorance reminds us that we are not gods nor demigods. Our knowledge both begins and ends with our ignorance. Curiosity and imagination are our only ways forward. There are neither right nor wrong answers to our inquiries and quests. There are only answers that raise even more questions.
We humans only partially "know" the 5% of physical reality that is not a "force" called dark energy (70% of physical reality) nor a "mass" we call dark matter ( 25% of physical reality). What little we know is devilishly diabolically divided by the tiny quantum world and the massive relative universe.
Breaking these dams may bring us way more dam problems than we can ever possibly imagine or manage. There are costs and benefits to every choice.
7
Glen Canyon dam will not be touched. Hey you want to write about a dam that should be removed why not Hetch Hetchy, The sacred water supply for San Francisco elites would be a better story. We're not even allowed anywhere near it' s shore line and it floods a valley more splendid then Yosemete. Where is the Sierra club on that?
11
Hetch Hetchy water comes out of the tap in the Hunters Point projects too. San Francisco elites? I don't think so.
The water that 'leaks' out of Lake Powell enters the Colorado Plateaus aquifers. Much of that water is not 'lost,' it flows into the aquifers, which are being badly depleted.
The article is surely long enough to mention this. Over pumping aquifers in the West are a major challenge, I expect a bit more balance from the NYTimes.
The article is surely long enough to mention this. Over pumping aquifers in the West are a major challenge, I expect a bit more balance from the NYTimes.
6
May I suggest that readers interested in the history of Glen Canyon dam read the new book "The Man Who Built the Sierra Club" by Robert Wyss. I am reading this biography of David Brower right now, and find the detailed chronology of the dam construction, the politics and machinations on all sides, fascinating, and very timely given this article. (It is due to be published in June by Columbia University Press.)
I am not a hydrologist, or an engineer, but a long-time resident of the southwest. Water issues long ago passed the point when we should have addressed them. Rethinking our approach to water management, land management, and population management out here is critical.
I am not a hydrologist, or an engineer, but a long-time resident of the southwest. Water issues long ago passed the point when we should have addressed them. Rethinking our approach to water management, land management, and population management out here is critical.
4
And yet, on Thursday, the Arizona Republic reported that a WATER BOTTLING FACILITY is to begin operations in Phoenix because we have "more water than we need." WHO is making money off this outrageous deal? http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/news/2016/05/19/nestle-plans-35-milli...
3
See this article in the Times for an additional possibility:"New Solar Plants Generate Floating Green Power"
1
Good article. It appears that there is an opportunity to postpone an early, inescapable, natural water shortage by a few years or decades by combining two large reserves. This is a stop-gap measure in a time of climate change that should be viewed as an opportunity to make changes in water usage in the Southwest so the transition from little water to severe chronic shortage is manageable. Do we have the people in office who can manage this?..... Now you can laugh or cry depending on where you live.
3
Just about every freshwater and stream ecologist and fisheries management person I have professionally and personally spoken to, or read their reports and papers or heard their presentations at conferences, over the past twenty plus years have almost uniformly documented the deleterious effects upon the natural flow of streams and rivers. And even the hydraulic engineers who, when finally integrating their engineering acumen with and subsequent understanding of the natural but disappearing beauty of our fluvial environments, also come to recognize the environmental and human benefits of allowing a river - within its confines of valley and climate - to be a river. This was long ago seen by even those who studied the power of the river: Luna Leopold, in "A View of the River", wrote (p. ix) in his preface "We in the United States have acquiesced to the destruction and degradation of our rivers, in part because we have insufficient knowledge of the characteristics of rivers and the effects of our actions that alter their form and process."
7
A timely reminder that the Federal government performs many valuable services, including managing millions of acres of land, rivers, dams and untold other national assets.
Loose talk about cutting Federal budget, dismantling Federal programs and agencies, and somehow trusting to the states and the private sector to fill the void are all too common in the United States, especially in an election year.
The two presumptive candidates have not been effective advocates for healthy Federal programs. Mrs. Clinton, in particular, carries heavy baggage, her husband's ill-concealed antipathy for Federal activities of all sorts.
Voters should take note.
Loose talk about cutting Federal budget, dismantling Federal programs and agencies, and somehow trusting to the states and the private sector to fill the void are all too common in the United States, especially in an election year.
The two presumptive candidates have not been effective advocates for healthy Federal programs. Mrs. Clinton, in particular, carries heavy baggage, her husband's ill-concealed antipathy for Federal activities of all sorts.
Voters should take note.
1
Agree with the first half of your idea but the last half seems to imply that voting for Republicans is going to NOT result in cutting federal budgets and dismantling agencies that care for the national environmental assets is nuts. Turning these assets over to the private sector and states, and cutting funds for federal agencies that do this work are major pieces of the Republican platform.
1
forget it jake ... its Chinatown
9
Too bad Edward Abbey has left us. All this wrangling would have at least given us another good book.
I'm currently reading good book called "Abundance" by Diamonds and Kolter. Let me sum it up: Sure we have some serious problems, but the exponential rate of technology and progress is nearly certain to outpace the problems we face. It's a compelling argument, but one that lacks the politics which cease to swirl around objective facts. It is often not that we don't know what to do, it's that we can't do it.
I'm currently reading good book called "Abundance" by Diamonds and Kolter. Let me sum it up: Sure we have some serious problems, but the exponential rate of technology and progress is nearly certain to outpace the problems we face. It's a compelling argument, but one that lacks the politics which cease to swirl around objective facts. It is often not that we don't know what to do, it's that we can't do it.
1
Swing and a miss!
As climate change reduces the West's water, the wet storms we have become more severe. Dams were not built for power generation, that's just a bonus. Yes, irrigation is ONE of the main reasons these dams were built, but the main purpose, completely ignored by the author of this article, IS FLOOD CONTROL!!!
As climate change reduces the West's water, the wet storms we have become more severe. Dams were not built for power generation, that's just a bonus. Yes, irrigation is ONE of the main reasons these dams were built, but the main purpose, completely ignored by the author of this article, IS FLOOD CONTROL!!!
3
Oh, nuts. Take this simple test: Name two cities on the Colorado of more than 10,000 population that would be subject to floods if the dams were removed.
1
I doubt too many people are worried about floods in the Grand Canyon, which takes up most of the space between the Glen Canyon and Hoover dams.
2
The readers of this article ought to keep two things in mind as they rush to state their preconceived opinions about this issue:
1. The total amount of hydroelectric power you can pull out of a river is roughly proportional to the product of its flow rate and the total altitude drop along its length. That's simple physics. Therefore, if you close the Glen Canyon Dam, its power capacity will be approximately recovered by generators downstream at the Hoover Dam. Of course, this is altered by evaporation along the way and friction as the water rushes against the riverbanks.
2. The rate of water loss by evaporation is determined by the area of the water. The depth has little to do with it. If the water in Lake Powell is sent to Lake Mead, and this results in a reduction of the combined area, then evaporative losses will be reduced.
1. The total amount of hydroelectric power you can pull out of a river is roughly proportional to the product of its flow rate and the total altitude drop along its length. That's simple physics. Therefore, if you close the Glen Canyon Dam, its power capacity will be approximately recovered by generators downstream at the Hoover Dam. Of course, this is altered by evaporation along the way and friction as the water rushes against the riverbanks.
2. The rate of water loss by evaporation is determined by the area of the water. The depth has little to do with it. If the water in Lake Powell is sent to Lake Mead, and this results in a reduction of the combined area, then evaporative losses will be reduced.
14
Not "preconceived" Paul, but the new reality of climate change.
[And you didn't mention the vast differences in underground leakage between Lakes Powell and Mead.]
[And you didn't mention the vast differences in underground leakage between Lakes Powell and Mead.]
1
Despite the problems, and putting aside whether Glen Canyon should have been created in the first place, removing it would have unpredictable consequences. What if we had a stirng of wet years. Believing in climate changes does not mean we should rush into major changes in the system of management. We do need to conserve more.
There are too many people.
It's really that simple.
I'm concerned about the reckoning
It's really that simple.
I'm concerned about the reckoning
3
The pessimist sees the glass half empty; the optimist sees the glass half full; but the engineer sees a glass that was designed twice as large as it needed to be. So who's right? That's the question.
To mix metaphors --- the truth is that for most people living in the deserts west of the Rockies and east of the Sierra Nevada -- "Après nous le déluge". We will follow the Anasazi into history.
3
California has already returned to business as usual to support growth after one rainy winter.
What climate change?
What climate change?
3
In Arizona approximately 75% of the annual state wide water usage goes to agriculture. Agriculture contributes less than 15 percent to the Arizona's annual domestic product.
CAP (Central Arizona Project) water is priced to agriculture at marginal cost of supply while the cost of CAP infrastructure is borne by all CAP users.
The agriculture watering methods used in Arizona today were outlawed in Israel decades ago.
I could go on ...
CAP (Central Arizona Project) water is priced to agriculture at marginal cost of supply while the cost of CAP infrastructure is borne by all CAP users.
The agriculture watering methods used in Arizona today were outlawed in Israel decades ago.
I could go on ...
4
Are you saying there's no money in agriculture so stop farming and ranching? How does annual domestic product translate into people fed? With out food....
Food doesn't come out of a 3D printer yet.
Food doesn't come out of a 3D printer yet.
1
Capture every drop of rainwater you can. Store it where it won't evaporate. Use it for your irrigation with drip systems. I live in New Mexico where everyone is predicting mega-droughts. It rains less often and harder already. Our gardens are prospering. Here are some pictures.
http://seniorjunior.blogspot.com/2006/07/out-of-storage-capacity.html
http://seniorjunior.blogspot.com/2006/07/out-of-storage-capacity.html
I can't help responding that "more water" in the west is quite available. The oddities of climate change now deliver vast quantities of water to the eastern half of the U.S. Floods, innundations, excess water flushing into the Gulf and the Atlantic could feasibly be moved west, over the continental divide and into the rivers and aquifers. Problem is, it would take a big (yuge!) infrastructure project, and we seem to have developed a allergic reaction to infrastructure spending. Here is a full plan, complete with pictures, of how such a project would more than pay for itself. http://seniorjunior.blogspot.com/2011/11/big-water-moving.html.
I hope you check it out. It would definitely Make America Somewhat Better.
I hope you check it out. It would definitely Make America Somewhat Better.
1
When will we capitalists realize that growing everything larger, especially population, is not a good thing for any economic, governmental, or geographical system. (You only have to see traffic congestion in any major U.S. city to realize this.) It's time to start thinking smaller.
4
Due to decreasing amount of precipitation within the basin and the growing population it is highly probable the Colorado River Compact will need to be renegotiated. The signs of stress are already clearly visible. Such a vast undertaking will be extremely difficult to manage as every party has its vested interests to protect. Best to begin the negotiations with a full deck of cards so the operation and presence of the dams should be on the table from the get go!
1
Israel is now desalinating seawater which provides the majority of water it needs for all purposes in a cost-effective way. This technology is being used in the new Carlsbad (San Diego) CA desalination plant which will be the largest in the U.S. With solar and wind providing power, this is clearly the future, which means that Glen River Canyon can be restored without imperilling the water situation in the West, assuming we build the necessary water transport pipelines to bring the water from the ocean to where it's needed. It's the kind of infrastructure project Candidate Trump thinks we need. I agree.
2
Here we go again. JW Powell (in an incredible irony) a 150 years ago, said the western portion of the u.s. could never support the numbers of people that developers and the government wanted to send there. Of course, no one wanted to hear this and we partied on. Now we face a scenario where the entire country is ridiculously over populated, especially the west. The u.s. is the third most populous country on earth. No one, with even a small business mans or politicians brain wants to catch China or India. We have no need for more people, home grown or immigrants. Once again, reality and short term stupidity, driven by PC thinking and gutless politicians will trump (no pun intended) any thoughts of creating a sustainable United States that will serve us and the countries future. The Colorado river and the state it is in are just a symptom of what we are doing wrong. No one on the national stage has the foresight or guts to say what needs to be said to lead us to a sustainable future. More is always better has never worked and it won't now, only now we are playing a game from which the country and the world may never recover. Bring the dam down. Limit our numbers. Work to produce a society that values quality of life as much as the quantity of "stuff" we consume. Restore an environment that will sustain us, and us it, for a future we might want to actually live in. The path we are on, infinite growth on a finite planet is Insane.
6
Do you know of the Rockefeller Foundation's initiative, "One Hundred Resilient Cities"? It has brought imaginative thinking and scientific resources to over 60 cities world wide (so far), helping the cities plan for the challenges ahead due to climate change and its attendant impacts. It brings the cities together to learn from each other and together find best practices.
Isn't it time for a -- name your number -- resilient rivers initiative? Water is our planet's most precious resource.
Isn't it time for a -- name your number -- resilient rivers initiative? Water is our planet's most precious resource.
3
The Grand Canyon is the most beautiful place on earth. Lake Powell was also amazing to see as a boy. Now it is an eyesore with the natural staining of the canyon walls destroyed. Any apologies to future generations are inadequate. Shortsighted objectives and magical thinking are to blame. Let mother nature and her natural water flows drive settlement of the southwest.
7
Not a mention that the town I live in, St. George UT, is currently planning on building a pipeline to Lake Powell to supply more water to this quickly expanding area. The city leaders don't seem very interested in curbing water use. They are only interested in development and dollars.
Also though, no mention of the people who make a living off the recreational opportunities at Lake Powell. I'm sure those folks would not stand silently by as their income source vanishes.
I'm also puzzled by the suggestion that draining the lake is going to restore all the natural and historic wonders that were buried by water. You mean if you can find them under the silt? Like it's magically going to be like it was before? Absurd.
Anyway, I'm not on one side or the other, honestly I've never even considered the idea that they'd ever drain the lake because it seems like fantasy, but just found this story to be strangely completely lacking in any mention of the locals, the politics of the area, or how they might react. Municipalities in this corner of the nation aren't so big on caring for the environment, as insane as that is.
Also though, no mention of the people who make a living off the recreational opportunities at Lake Powell. I'm sure those folks would not stand silently by as their income source vanishes.
I'm also puzzled by the suggestion that draining the lake is going to restore all the natural and historic wonders that were buried by water. You mean if you can find them under the silt? Like it's magically going to be like it was before? Absurd.
Anyway, I'm not on one side or the other, honestly I've never even considered the idea that they'd ever drain the lake because it seems like fantasy, but just found this story to be strangely completely lacking in any mention of the locals, the politics of the area, or how they might react. Municipalities in this corner of the nation aren't so big on caring for the environment, as insane as that is.
3
read davuid browers book, th place no one knew
about th colorado river upstream from glen canyon dam, and th compromises that were made in getting that dam built
brower claims th river in that stretch was th most beautiful part of th colorado, but they agreed it be damned to keep th river wild downstream through grand canyon natnl park
about th colorado river upstream from glen canyon dam, and th compromises that were made in getting that dam built
brower claims th river in that stretch was th most beautiful part of th colorado, but they agreed it be damned to keep th river wild downstream through grand canyon natnl park
The 1963 Sierra Club book, "The Place No One Knew," with pictures of the incredible beauty lost to this damned project, galvanized huge numbers of 60s students into the environmental movement. It is tragic but just karma that this abomination should turn out to be possibly the biggest indictment of the Army-Corps-of-Engineers mentality that can't even seem to imagine technical and economic consequences past about ten years, much less have an iota of feeling for the carnage they wreak on the environment and the psyche.
2
Come to Utah were turf is King. Washington County where St. George, Utah is located has proposed via its water district the Lake Powell Pipeline Project to meet future needs without explaining the true need for this 2-3 billion dollar project. Washington County uses double the water of Phoenix or Las Vegas. The state of Utah is moving ahead with planning on this project. Utah is the center of state control of their believed assets and will never agree with the federal government on any issue.
What was a good idea in the last century may not be the best idea today. Whether we want to believe in the causes for the changes happening or whether we are capable of re-thinking how we adapt to the changes, nature is still in control. Population growth is the root cause of climate change. Have we forgotten about the business model of supply and demand? Well, it applies to nature also.
THe river is dying but is not because it is plugged. It is because we insist on turning what is essentially an arid area (the Southwest, specially Southern California) into agricultural land and also to raise livestock ( with its demanding and harmful ecological impact. We are addicted to cheap produce and specially cheap animal protein. The river that has flowed through milenia and carved the Grand Canyon is on its death throes...because of our greed. Doing away with the Dam will be wonderful for the ecology downstream from it, the Grand Canyon itself, and Mexico, but its fate depends more on what every single State along its path takes from it, and that is not going to change until severe water shortages occur, as they will with climate change and reduced snowfall over the river's water sources.
2
A band aid for a day of reckoning. It's a desert stupid and global warming is the terminus.
1
In a climate change denying ,mystical being belief era, getting rid of a known water source in the middle of a drought era in exchange for a maybe is a non starter.
Waste water recycling for agricultural use, as Israel and others do, is where to put the money. Agriculture uses more than 80% of the water, and more efficient distribution of agricultural water, and cutting loses in that distribution, has to begin.
Waste water recycling for agricultural use, as Israel and others do, is where to put the money. Agriculture uses more than 80% of the water, and more efficient distribution of agricultural water, and cutting loses in that distribution, has to begin.
Well, great !
Standing there, viewing the dam, I thought, "This is man's monument to man".
When viewing the Hoover Dam & "Lake Mead", I thought the same.
When viewing the Three Gorges dam, I thought the same.
Standing there, viewing the dam, I thought, "This is man's monument to man".
When viewing the Hoover Dam & "Lake Mead", I thought the same.
When viewing the Three Gorges dam, I thought the same.
Even if Glen Canyon Dam is opened and the reservoir is drained, there will be no tourists. Everything on or near the bottom will be covered with silt. It will take ages for it all to be washed out and become safe enough to explore again.
Before the dam, Glen Canyon was a beautiful remote área at the bottom of the Colorado River Gorge, and inaccesible except by boat. It WAS one of the most beautiful áreas along the river. And it is gone, covered and filled up with silt. One of my biggest regrets is that I never got to explore that área before it was covered by the rising waters of the reservoir.
Before the dam, Glen Canyon was a beautiful remote área at the bottom of the Colorado River Gorge, and inaccesible except by boat. It WAS one of the most beautiful áreas along the river. And it is gone, covered and filled up with silt. One of my biggest regrets is that I never got to explore that área before it was covered by the rising waters of the reservoir.
1
This is a fantastic article. Well-researched, balanced, clear. Thanks.
Playing the 'climate change' card as evidence a dam should be decommissioned is not really a wise idea. There's no argument that the climate is changing and changing more or less as predicted but the uncertainty of those predictions leaves enough doubt that dams should at least be left in place, for now, even if they are low on water.
1
Readers interested in some background on this issue might look at Wallace Stegner's "Beyond the Hundredth Meridian," Reisner's "Cadillac Desert," and McPhee's "Encounters With the Archdruid," (essays on Brower). Or read J. W. Powell's reports on his own explorations of the Colorado River Basin. Or Stephen Long's reports. The problems discussed here are not exactly new, and were all predicted long ago. The people who lived in that area before Europeans arrived lived in small family bands and the environment supported them more than adequately. That environment cannot support places like Las Vegas (Nevada), Phoenix, Los Angeles, Denver. Not for any length of time, anyway. Climate change or not, I suspect those places are doomed to a future of ecological disaster.
3
What kills the credibility of an analysis of this nature are words phrases like "may leak". There is no science or facts in "may". My bet, from having just a bit of hydrology, is that the "maybe leaks" do all flow back into the river system. Think about it, water doesn't flow to the core of the earth. So dismiss the "may" leak as anything but sesationalism.
Next, the West has always had dramtic ebbs and flows in precepitation, way before man's concept of climate change created the rationalization for every so called environmentalist cause. Again there is no facts behind the statement that world wide climate change will change the rain fall pattern in one small area of the world.
On a personal note, I wish the NYT would get back to hard fact reporting rather than these special interest puff stories.
Next, the West has always had dramtic ebbs and flows in precepitation, way before man's concept of climate change created the rationalization for every so called environmentalist cause. Again there is no facts behind the statement that world wide climate change will change the rain fall pattern in one small area of the world.
On a personal note, I wish the NYT would get back to hard fact reporting rather than these special interest puff stories.
Astonishing Photos. (Issues aside. the art is great. the engineering was too.)
Western Man (and Woman) seems to have this idea that they can own anything which we can take possession of--whether that is right or wrong. But, can we really take control of the lakes and rivers, the majestic mountains, and with the sunlight peaking out from behind them, as it rises throughout its day. That ignorant idea is reflected in the fact that we neither control nor protect nature.
Native Americans--and their indigenous brethren, around the planet--believe the no one, except for the Supreme Being actually possesses the land, sky, rivers and the oceans. He, or she, causes the sun and the moon to rise and fall as they follow each other through the sky--morning, noon and night.
And, because the true caretakers--who possess nothing, except what adorns their backs--they know to care fore, to cherish, and to pass the beauty and wonder, all around us, to the future generations to come.
And yet We, Western Man, think that we are superior; but, instead, we just do not understand how much damage we are doing to the very Mother, which nurtures us all. How sad!
https://thetruthoncommonsense.com
Native Americans--and their indigenous brethren, around the planet--believe the no one, except for the Supreme Being actually possesses the land, sky, rivers and the oceans. He, or she, causes the sun and the moon to rise and fall as they follow each other through the sky--morning, noon and night.
And, because the true caretakers--who possess nothing, except what adorns their backs--they know to care fore, to cherish, and to pass the beauty and wonder, all around us, to the future generations to come.
And yet We, Western Man, think that we are superior; but, instead, we just do not understand how much damage we are doing to the very Mother, which nurtures us all. How sad!
https://thetruthoncommonsense.com
2
very little, if any, discussion herein about the electricity production changes that emptying Lake Powell might or might not cause.
the West is currently nearly as 'short' of electrical demand capacities as water,
long lesson to be learned - - -
native americans observed and responded through centuries of interaction and experience that the region could sustainably carry a limited human presence ...
hopefully, in a few relatively short decades,
21st Century occupants can re-learn these basic facts of nature and make appropriate changes to better preserve all facets of life.
Before Europeans arrived, there were millions of dams all over North America. Millions. Castor canadensis, the busy beaver, had a profound effect on the American continent, creating lush habitat for other animals and storing water everywhere, even in arid regions. The silt collected behind their dams created rich pockets of soil that later provide excellent growing areas for trees and other plants. The dams were short term, once surrounding trees were eaten, the beavers move on. Several decades on, they return.
Europeans arrived, and beavers were largely wiped out. The west became more arid. We need to learn from beavers how to save water. They manage it far better than we do.
Europeans arrived, and beavers were largely wiped out. The west became more arid. We need to learn from beavers how to save water. They manage it far better than we do.
1
The entire river system of dams and stored water on the Colorado must be addressed as an entire system. Electricity production must be a secondary concern to the conservation of water and it seems logical to combine the water of Powell with Mead to limit evaporation. Every dam in the system must be tweaked and adjusted to accomplish that goal. But don't eliminate any dam as global climate change will affect local regions in differing ways. We may need them simply because there may be wet years. The flow of an arid river such as the Colorado is dependent on mountain snows melts. But the idea of storing vast amounts of open water in a desert environment must be reconsidered. Smaller in surface area and deeper storage areas are needed. Both Mead and Powell should be made much smaller and deeper. And these smaller artificial lakes should be enhanced on the bottom surface to prevent leakage.
The western dams lie at the intersection of engineering, planned usage and demand. The dams are engineering masterpieces that work almost exactly as intended. They trap, hold and release water in response to flow of the rivers upstream and the demand for river water downstream. As An Observer points out, demand for water upstream reduces the flow of the rivers. Global warming has reduced rainfall throughout the watersheds of the western rivers and the flow of the western rivers. The truth is not news. The westerns states do not have the water resources to support the demand for water generated by agricultural and population growth.
The news is not the truth. Tearing down the western dams and reducing evaporation will not generate more water just it will not provide a more reliable and stable flow.
The news is not the truth. Tearing down the western dams and reducing evaporation will not generate more water just it will not provide a more reliable and stable flow.
1
The solution is to have floating solar panels to cover the water body and not decommission the dam.
Admirable, important & timely. Just one glaring omission, facing climate change, how much carbon free electric power would be lost if Colorado River dams are dismantled or decommissioned?
1
In 1995 I helped build a PV system at Dangling Rope Marina on Lake Powell. This marina was described as the largest gas station in the nation, delivering fuel to the flotilla of 80 foot house boats, ski boats and wave runners that overran the reservoir during the height of the tourist season. After work we would often enjoy water skiing, tubing and swimming. I remember thinking that the water in which I was floating was that on which much of the west depended and that this dependency was quite dubious. At the time I heard discussions about the beauty of the Glen Canyon by locals and their wishes to remove the dam. Now here we are.
California has just ended some of the imposed water restrictions, suggesting the drought has eased. Unbelievable! The trouble with Lake Powell has only just begun as has the drought. We are such a foolish nation.
California has just ended some of the imposed water restrictions, suggesting the drought has eased. Unbelievable! The trouble with Lake Powell has only just begun as has the drought. We are such a foolish nation.
SUSTAINABLE Energy that is environmentally safe must come primarily from solar and wind sources. Colorado will need some lead time to develop wind and solar farms to replace and expand the electricity generated by the dam before removing it. But if a cloudy, cold country like Germany can get 80% of its energy from wind and solar and still have the strongest economy in the EU, we can do the same here in the US. We've squandered enough resources, giving a free ride to the fossil fuel industry. Now we need to invest that money in the effort to minimize the destructive effects of global climate change. I don't know how realistic it is to suppose that Colorado will remove the dam. But with strong federal leadership to rebuild the infrastructure, now 35 years overdue and counting, the US must revitalize itself by reinvesting in public utilities that provide for 100% of the people, not to just be gifted to the 1% at the cost of great harm to the nation.
Keep messing with nature and you lose. The opinions in favor of keeping all these dams operational are from people who would lose their jobs if the dams were scuttled.
The lead photograph is of the downstream side of Hoover Dam. The times appears to be making it look like that is the reservoir, which it is not.
And yet America in the Wes still refuses to actually do anything about desalination plants. Dubai has the largest in the world that produces over 3 billions gallons of fresh water a week should be a model. But instead we get infighting, people whining about cost (yes better to see the West turn into a dustbowl) which could easily be offset by stopping our war machine thinking and redirect those hundreds of billions into plants all over the coasts of the Southwest.
The San Diego plant has solved the environmental impact and now everyone whines about cost. Build five of the Dubai size plants and they would produce one trillion gallons of water per year. Heavy rainfall? Redirect the water into places like Lake Meade/Hoover Dam which is down one hundred seventy five feet.
But as usual whining about costs but no one says a word about the hundreds of billions being wasted in the mid East.A mere few months of war money could build all of those plants but the Military Industrial complex is more powerful than saving the West from becoming a dustbowl.
We cannot rely upon El Nino all the time.Climate change is going to change all of that eventually and we will be wondering why politicians and over zealous environmentalists helped to destroy the West and make water as expensive as oil.
Oh and spare us the idiocy of saying everyone should move out of the West. WHERE TO?
The San Diego plant has solved the environmental impact and now everyone whines about cost. Build five of the Dubai size plants and they would produce one trillion gallons of water per year. Heavy rainfall? Redirect the water into places like Lake Meade/Hoover Dam which is down one hundred seventy five feet.
But as usual whining about costs but no one says a word about the hundreds of billions being wasted in the mid East.A mere few months of war money could build all of those plants but the Military Industrial complex is more powerful than saving the West from becoming a dustbowl.
We cannot rely upon El Nino all the time.Climate change is going to change all of that eventually and we will be wondering why politicians and over zealous environmentalists helped to destroy the West and make water as expensive as oil.
Oh and spare us the idiocy of saying everyone should move out of the West. WHERE TO?
1
Hayduke Lives!
Desalinization plants will have to become regular features of the west coast shoreline. People in southwestern states will have to forego lawns. Golfers will see xeriscaping between artificial greens. All of this and more will have to take place regardless of whether or not the damming situation changes. Large viaduct systems to redistribute flood waters from other parts of the country to the west will provide work for decades; once the populace is convinced that a taxation system to support these endeavors is a matter of survival. The domestic challenges for the next few presidents and congresses will require them to work together or slide into a water-shortage driven economic oblivion.
"Many of the West’s big dams, meanwhile, have proved far less efficient and effective than their champions had hoped. They have altered ecosystems and disrupted fisheries. They have left taxpayers saddled with debt.
And in what is perhaps the most egregious failure for a system intended to conserve water, many of the reservoirs created by these dams lose hundreds of billions of gallons of precious water each year to evaporation and, sometimes, to leakage underground. These losses increasingly undercut the longstanding benefits of damming big rivers like the Colorado, and may now be making the West’s water crisis worse."
The Monkey Wrench Gang knew this 41 years ago.
Hayduke lives...
And in what is perhaps the most egregious failure for a system intended to conserve water, many of the reservoirs created by these dams lose hundreds of billions of gallons of precious water each year to evaporation and, sometimes, to leakage underground. These losses increasingly undercut the longstanding benefits of damming big rivers like the Colorado, and may now be making the West’s water crisis worse."
The Monkey Wrench Gang knew this 41 years ago.
Hayduke lives...
Absolutely beyond idiocy.
Aside from a dozen other holes in this line of thinking...If you all think leakage is a problem...uuh, folks - deeper leaks harder.
Besides - If you all want to be so ideologically pure, just let the Colorado drain into the Gulf of California, like it did eighty years ago.
Even purer - put out something like this that proposes to take down the O'Shaughnessy Dam.
You wouldn't last sixty seconds, in liberal SF politics.
Aside from a dozen other holes in this line of thinking...If you all think leakage is a problem...uuh, folks - deeper leaks harder.
Besides - If you all want to be so ideologically pure, just let the Colorado drain into the Gulf of California, like it did eighty years ago.
Even purer - put out something like this that proposes to take down the O'Shaughnessy Dam.
You wouldn't last sixty seconds, in liberal SF politics.
"The lake behind Arizona’s Coolidge Dam, one of the state’s largest reservoirs, is virtually empty."
Just dishonest. The privilege of the morally superior? The right to dishonesty?
The dam so described, per wikipedia, is NOT for water storage and Will Rogers said something about it to the effct that if it was his dam, he would mow it.
Just dishonest. The privilege of the morally superior? The right to dishonesty?
The dam so described, per wikipedia, is NOT for water storage and Will Rogers said something about it to the effct that if it was his dam, he would mow it.
Courtesy of Wikipedia,
"Prior to the mid 20th century, the 3,000-square-mile (7,800 km2) Colorado River Delta provided a rich estuarine marshland; while today it is now essentially desiccated, the river is still an important salt-water estuary resource."
I was glad to see Mexico mentioned toward the end of the article. Since I learned about the Colorado River Estuary as a child, I always wondered if this would ever be restored.
I hope Mexico has a full part in the discussion that is about to take place.
"Prior to the mid 20th century, the 3,000-square-mile (7,800 km2) Colorado River Delta provided a rich estuarine marshland; while today it is now essentially desiccated, the river is still an important salt-water estuary resource."
I was glad to see Mexico mentioned toward the end of the article. Since I learned about the Colorado River Estuary as a child, I always wondered if this would ever be restored.
I hope Mexico has a full part in the discussion that is about to take place.
PBS series and book entitled "cadillac water". the colorado river should never have been damned.
1
cadillac desert
xlnt book
xlnt book
1
With 20-30 mln people dependent on reservoir ops on the Lower Colorado: Unlikely. With several mln dependent on its hydropower generation: Equally unlikely. Damnation is a good movie - count me in on a visit to the Elwha and Carmel Rivers - but don't see GC coming down. This year, runoff about 85% of the 30-year average - Not dire.
The problems that the Glen Canyon Dam and Lake Powell created were anticipated before and during construction. Its construction was extremely controversial and met with strong scientific opposition. And here we are today, reaping what we knew we would sew with global warming only making the problems worse. Hydrologists knew the Lake Powell would leak like a sieve. They knew that massive amounts of water would evaporate ... yet they built it anyway. So the best thing we can do now is open up the dam and drain Lake Powell ... and hope that the water-scars on the beautiful canyon walls will someday heal instead of remaining as reminders of our folly for many millennia to come.
2
The volume the dams can store is probably minuscule compared to what is stored in the snow pack...but with GW, snow pack storage will be dropping. We may regret destroying what little ability we have to store precipitation.
hayduke lives
This article talks about global warming as if it is some sort of natural phenomenon with no known cause.
I find it incredible that people can talk about removing dams in the face of global warming. Hydropower is the only available source of electricity that generates no carbon dioxide and is available every day and every night. The people who have been arguing in favor of removing dams for the last 50 or 100 years have not altered their arguments in the face of global warming.
If you think that reduced power consumption will replace the lost hydro power, take a responsible approach. Convince people to conserve, and when demand drops reduce the amount of electricity generated by burning fossil fuel. When we reach the point that no electricity is generated by burning fossil fuel and we have excess supply, then come to me and talk about removing dams. I suggest you not hold your breath. Conservation always works better in anti-dam literature than it ever does in the real world.
I find it incredible that people can talk about removing dams in the face of global warming. Hydropower is the only available source of electricity that generates no carbon dioxide and is available every day and every night. The people who have been arguing in favor of removing dams for the last 50 or 100 years have not altered their arguments in the face of global warming.
If you think that reduced power consumption will replace the lost hydro power, take a responsible approach. Convince people to conserve, and when demand drops reduce the amount of electricity generated by burning fossil fuel. When we reach the point that no electricity is generated by burning fossil fuel and we have excess supply, then come to me and talk about removing dams. I suggest you not hold your breath. Conservation always works better in anti-dam literature than it ever does in the real world.
1
US per capita usage has been dropping for decades; it's now about 15% below 1973's level. That trend will probably continue, but with population growth, conservation won't be nearly enough to halt climate change..
2
No it couldn't.
check out the recent PBS documentary Beyond the Mirage and the web education experience to better understand the Colorado's CAP water allocation and our dependence on it at Beyondthemirage.org
1
Big environmental plans are often made for laudable goals. No different with discussion on opening the doors on Glen Canyon, though there appears to be a disagreement about what happens to the water that seeps through the impoundment floor. Still, most of these ideas fail to account for the human side of the equation; what will those who depend on the current water supply configuration do if that configuration is changed. There is no "real" plan without a solution for human needs.
If you live in the western states, It quickly becomes apparent that water is everything. So if I understand this article correctly, the writer is for unstoring water, not storing it. Which is what will happen if you remove the Glenn canyon dam. If anything the western states probably need more dams and reservoirs than less. Ask Californians how they feel about it. Without these reservoirs the west will turn into the Sahara of the United States.
Don't build catch basins because water evaporates? Ok.
With droughts and flooding being a huge problem, with or without, global warning, it's about time the adults take over and do something about it. Population is growing and people need water not horse riding trails. As it gets worse there is going to be exodus of people from where there is no water to places where there is. The world has to get together and begin planing to meet the needs of all its people and not just an elite of green party fanatics. That involves YUGE civil project.
With droughts and flooding being a huge problem, with or without, global warning, it's about time the adults take over and do something about it. Population is growing and people need water not horse riding trails. As it gets worse there is going to be exodus of people from where there is no water to places where there is. The world has to get together and begin planing to meet the needs of all its people and not just an elite of green party fanatics. That involves YUGE civil project.
1
This is the fate of the world, writ small. Whether the climate changes or not we have an unsustainable and growing population. As we seek to satisfy our voracious appetite for transportation, food, housing, power etc.we increasingly degrade our planet. The answer lies most easily in a reduced human population. How likely is this to happen when half the people on earth believe their imaginary friends want them to have as many children as possible? Can we have rational planning and action in the widespread presence of stone-age belief systems? Good luck to us.
5
Yes, the Glen Canyon Dam must be retired. Edward Abbey is flipping in his grave. This dam was almost wipeout during the flooding of 1983. The concrete plug was stout while the canyon walls which it is anchored were ready to fail. A stroke of luck allow the engineers to prevent its demise.
Lake Powell, er, Foul has covered many unique, fascinating natural features. These side canyons also hold thousands of archeological sites. Since the new normal, ongoing drought, the lowering of the reservoir has lessen the demise of Rainbow Bridge. We must allow these features to heal, natural processes will bring these canyons to recover. Where needed we can assist the process by removing years of driftwood, fighting invasive species such as tamarisk and cheat grass, while also removing or helping the flow of sediments. These sediments, sand is needed to replenish the beaches within the Grand Canyon.
This endeavor will take time. A perfect celebration of the 50 plus years of this unfortunate, shortsightedness works of man would be the decommissioning of this reservoir.
Lake Powell, er, Foul has covered many unique, fascinating natural features. These side canyons also hold thousands of archeological sites. Since the new normal, ongoing drought, the lowering of the reservoir has lessen the demise of Rainbow Bridge. We must allow these features to heal, natural processes will bring these canyons to recover. Where needed we can assist the process by removing years of driftwood, fighting invasive species such as tamarisk and cheat grass, while also removing or helping the flow of sediments. These sediments, sand is needed to replenish the beaches within the Grand Canyon.
This endeavor will take time. A perfect celebration of the 50 plus years of this unfortunate, shortsightedness works of man would be the decommissioning of this reservoir.
I'm not sure that draining the reservoir would restore Glen Canyon. The current drop in water level reveals white sediment deposits on the exposed canyon walls. Will those deposits ever wash away?
Me..........1968......."told ya so".
1
The Monkey Wrench Gang knew this years ago.
Hayduke lives...
Hayduke lives...
1
Dams are an environmental blight, we need to methodically bring them down and restore these rivers to their natural state.
3
This is a great blog for anyone interested in water in the West:
http://www.inkstain.net/fleck/
http://www.inkstain.net/fleck/
1
One can only imagine under how much mud, silt, beer cans, sunken fiberglass motorboats, and dead water skiers the jewel that is Glen Canyon lies. Surely it would take centuries for it to have any semblance of recovery. Yet what will North America as a whole look like after those centuries, what with an ever greater population and the devastation likely caused by global warming? Nonetheless, it's worth draining that evaporation tank.
Red O. Greene, Albuquerque, NM, USA
Red O. Greene, Albuquerque, NM, USA
Will someone please consult the beavers on this issue?
Okay, I'm very snarky this afternoon, but G/F, DUE IN ABOUT 30 MINUTES, hasn't been here since early Monday morning.
(Apologize for the CAPS)
Now, to get serious, when will we, and I, stop messing around with our environment? We have more efficient technologies, and more coming on-line, to generate our energy needs.
Let us all rise from our rear ends and get going on balancing energy needs with technology without turning the damnable planet into a wasteland. Or, doesn't anybody care about all those future generations we do owe a future, or is it present, to?
(Lord, I sound like Dennis Quaid in "The Day after Tomorrow".)
Okay, I'm very snarky this afternoon, but G/F, DUE IN ABOUT 30 MINUTES, hasn't been here since early Monday morning.
(Apologize for the CAPS)
Now, to get serious, when will we, and I, stop messing around with our environment? We have more efficient technologies, and more coming on-line, to generate our energy needs.
Let us all rise from our rear ends and get going on balancing energy needs with technology without turning the damnable planet into a wasteland. Or, doesn't anybody care about all those future generations we do owe a future, or is it present, to?
(Lord, I sound like Dennis Quaid in "The Day after Tomorrow".)
1
very little, if any, discussion herein about the electricity production changes that emptying Lake Powell might or might not cause.
the West is currently nearly as 'short' of electrical demand capacities as water,
long lesson to be learned - - -
native americans observed and responded through centuries of interaction and experience that the region could sustainably carry a limited human presence ...
hopefully, in a few relatively short decades,
21st Century occupants can re-learn these basic facts of nature and make appropriate changes to better preserve all facets of life.
1
I live in Las Vegas, adjacent to Lake Mead. The desert southwest IS the place for people and their homes. Plowing up farmlands that feed the people, to build homes for them, doesn’t make sense. I remember the environmental fights during the time of building Glen Canyon Dam. The Bureau of Reclamations had plans for a dam above Lake Powell; whose large surface area would Have evaporated enough water that there would be none left for Lake Powell, much less the dam planned for the bottom of the Grand Canyon or Lake Mead.
Bypass Glen Canyon Dam by opening the four large valves and allow the uneven flow and silt of Lake Powell to become the old Colorado River. Let it flow wild into the Grand Canyon and return its beaches and rapids to what they once were when I drifted it, so many years ago.
Bypass Glen Canyon Dam by opening the four large valves and allow the uneven flow and silt of Lake Powell to become the old Colorado River. Let it flow wild into the Grand Canyon and return its beaches and rapids to what they once were when I drifted it, so many years ago.
1
Twenty years ago, during my first boat trip down the Colorado from Lees Ferry below Glen Canyon Dam to Pearce Ferry on Lake Mead, we were advised that the amount of water being lost from Lake Powell by the combination of surface evaporation and absorption into the porous sandstone was equal to the amount used by Los Angeles each year. And this was some years before Lake Powell had reached its lowest level. To claim that the loss is "insignificant" has no basis in fact, and is, of course, a political statement.
1
And cover lake Mead with floating solar cells. They stop evaporation and make plenty of electricity.
1
I suggest that anyone interested in this issue real the excellent Cadillac Desert by the late Marc Reisner and Beyond the Hundreth Meridian by Wallace Stegner. Both are available online, at your local bookstore or any good library.
If you are really lucky, your library might have VHS copies of the PBS Documentary series based in part on Mr Reisner's book and The Last Oasis by Sandra Postel - another book I highly recommend.
Glen Canyon Dam should have never been built. It is more a monument to political and bureaucratic inertia than enlightened conservation.
If you are really lucky, your library might have VHS copies of the PBS Documentary series based in part on Mr Reisner's book and The Last Oasis by Sandra Postel - another book I highly recommend.
Glen Canyon Dam should have never been built. It is more a monument to political and bureaucratic inertia than enlightened conservation.
3
Water loss from surface evaporation on Lake Mead and Lake Powell is just part of the wastage. Take a look at Google Map aerial photos of southwest cities for a first hand view of just how many tens of thousands of back yard swimming pools now depend on overuse of the declining, federally subsidized water supply from the Colorado River dams. This purely ornamental / recreational usage compounds the huge evaporation loss from these lakes. It is also highly doubtful that the local water fees paid by swimming pool owners in these states come close to repaying the federal taxpayer subsidies that sustain operation of the Colorado river water storage and diversion canal systems that supply this wasted water. Balancing supply and demand for water in the arid southwest requires a much more comprehensive policy review and adjustment than making one reservoir out of two. Kinds and amounts of water usage, their subsidies, and end user fees all need to be addressed, too.
4
The same idea could be implemented further north in Montana: freeing the Big Muddy all along the Breaks.
2
Too many people for a finite resource.
4
It is not so much a dam problem but a people problem. Too many people living in an arid environment that does not have enough resources to support the population.
5
Here is more from fabulous reporter and researcher Abrahm Lustgarten, who provides chapter and version in a variety of in-depth reports.
https://www.propublica.org/site/author/abrahm_lustgarten
https://www.propublica.org/site/author/abrahm_lustgarten
6
After the Corps of Engineers' floodwalls failed after Hurricane Katrina passed, my response to the those clamoring "Why live there?" and "Abandon, don't rebuild" was to ask "where should we move, then?"
The tensions over water in the desert states documented here were already evident in 2005. An entire town in Kansas was leveled by a tornado in 2007. Whenever oil becomes a scarce commodity, "Let 'em Freeze" bumper stickers start appearing, the "'em" referring to anyone living where it snows.
There is no flood free, earthquake immune plateau with a good aquifer and warm temperatures, and if there was, we all couldn't move there. It's time to treat both root cause and our response to climate change as our country's moon shot. Given the declines in education, respect for science, and the public will to fund, well, anything at all, it's also a long shot.
The tensions over water in the desert states documented here were already evident in 2005. An entire town in Kansas was leveled by a tornado in 2007. Whenever oil becomes a scarce commodity, "Let 'em Freeze" bumper stickers start appearing, the "'em" referring to anyone living where it snows.
There is no flood free, earthquake immune plateau with a good aquifer and warm temperatures, and if there was, we all couldn't move there. It's time to treat both root cause and our response to climate change as our country's moon shot. Given the declines in education, respect for science, and the public will to fund, well, anything at all, it's also a long shot.
63
The difficulty is, you demanded massive federal help and sued the government too, for the purpose of maintaining your lifestyle at below sea level. It is not perhaps surprising that there were those who felt that New Orleans could do without much the Lower Ninth and similar areas. Climate change isn't going to make keeping you dry cheaper either. And mostly, it's us, not you, paying.
Wallace Stegner has written (in reference to Glen Canyon and Lake Powell):
“Awe was never Glen Canyon. That is for the Grand Canyon. Glen Canyon was for delight.”
Also:
“In gaining the lovely and the useable we have given up the incomparable”.
“Awe was never Glen Canyon. That is for the Grand Canyon. Glen Canyon was for delight.”
Also:
“In gaining the lovely and the useable we have given up the incomparable”.
28
President Obama campaigned on the promise of massive public works projects across the country to ease unemployment and restore facilities.
Well, here’s probably the biggest and potentially most beneficial project he could undertake, one that would guarantee his name in US history other than being our first Black president... a transcontinental water aqueduct.
There’s not much we can do to stop the annual torrential rains, twisters and floods that devastate the Midwest. Yet, all that water goes to waste in the Gulf of Mexico. It doesn’t have to be that way. Some good can come from the floods.
Since much of the Midwest and East get too much water and the West not enough, why not send some west? Here’s one for our short-term thinking narrow-minded politicians…the greatest American public utilities project since the transcontinental railroad. Let’s build an aqueduct near the mouth of the Mississippi through Texas, New New Mexico, Arizona and California.
It can’t be done? Rubbish…the California aqueduct and canal system traverses mountains and plains. But, in addition to the aqueduct, major reservoirs would be developed in each of the states concerned to hold the seasonal overflow.
Such a mammoth undertaking would also be an economic gold mine for the nation, with thousands of jobs created along with an enormous boost to ancillary industries supplying the project.
Well, here’s probably the biggest and potentially most beneficial project he could undertake, one that would guarantee his name in US history other than being our first Black president... a transcontinental water aqueduct.
There’s not much we can do to stop the annual torrential rains, twisters and floods that devastate the Midwest. Yet, all that water goes to waste in the Gulf of Mexico. It doesn’t have to be that way. Some good can come from the floods.
Since much of the Midwest and East get too much water and the West not enough, why not send some west? Here’s one for our short-term thinking narrow-minded politicians…the greatest American public utilities project since the transcontinental railroad. Let’s build an aqueduct near the mouth of the Mississippi through Texas, New New Mexico, Arizona and California.
It can’t be done? Rubbish…the California aqueduct and canal system traverses mountains and plains. But, in addition to the aqueduct, major reservoirs would be developed in each of the states concerned to hold the seasonal overflow.
Such a mammoth undertaking would also be an economic gold mine for the nation, with thousands of jobs created along with an enormous boost to ancillary industries supplying the project.
31
We have lost the capability to address mammoth projects that don't involve weapons. And the geography you airily dismiss is daunting. I despair at American's lack of geographical understanding. I wish paper maps were more popular.
But Republicans are cutting budgets and not allowing the most trivial of positive infrastructure improvements to go forward.
However, please do get your current preferred source of satellite maps out and take a look at the territory. It's fun and educational!
But Republicans are cutting budgets and not allowing the most trivial of positive infrastructure improvements to go forward.
However, please do get your current preferred source of satellite maps out and take a look at the territory. It's fun and educational!
17
"Obama campaigned on the promise of massive public works projects across the country to ease unemployment and restore facilities."
But these infrastructure jobs would be restricted to "prevailing wage" union members who would then kickback most of their union dues to the democrats. The GOP would be crazy to agree to giving more kickback money to the democrats.
But these infrastructure jobs would be restricted to "prevailing wage" union members who would then kickback most of their union dues to the democrats. The GOP would be crazy to agree to giving more kickback money to the democrats.
1
I shared the same dream as you, but looking at a map printed on a flat paper makes it hard to realize how much power would be required to pump all that water up over the mountains to the west. Maybe we can build some nuclear power plants to power those pumping stations. We all know how much debate that would create.
1
Note that the plan would be to simply open the flood gates and let the river run through the dam. No one is suggesting to tear it down, no matter how appealing that might be. This proposal is a very good compromise that allows for the dam to serve flood control or other purposes if necessary if excess water returns to the upper basin in the future. The problem is that the Colorado has nothing left to give. It is way over subscribed. Better not to allow all of that evaporation.
30
Unfortunately, there are 50-years-worth of accumulated upstream sediments in Lake Powell, and it will take a long time for them to wash out.
14
So?
2
Glen Canyon was a beautiful place sacrificed by greedy humans. Restore the river flow and let the canyon slowly be resurrected. The removal of the Elwa dam proved that humans really don't know what they are doing when it comes to nature.
20
I've been saddened by the loss of Glen Canyon since, as a teenager, I discovered books and photos about "The place no one knew" recorded by its last visitors. I hope, if the decision is made to decommission Glen Canyon and drain Lake Powell, that I will live long enough to glimpse the canyon as it begins its long journey of restoration. What a sight that will be to behold!
31
Bill, I hope you do, too. I spent the summer of 1960 in Glen Canyon working on a salvage archaeology crew run by Prof. Jesse Jennings out of the University of Utah. We were trying to clear as many Anasazi sites as possible before the dam closed. The Anasazi remains were contained on remnants about 400 off the canyon floor where the river was in the 12th century. I had the luck to dig up a burial and there I was staring one of the Old Boys in the face! The whole experience is still as mind boggling as it ever was. I would love to get back down there, but I have also enjoyed all the strange artificial beauty of Lake Powell. It is a marvelous work of art, but I agree it's time for it to go.
It's frustrating to put so little faith in a do-nothing Congress and the ability of the Western states to renegotiate an agreement penned a century ago, in the age of flappers and Model Ts and when L.A. had half a million people.
I attended the Wallace Stegner Symposium at the University of Utah, and the legal/planning/writing minds thinking about energy use in the West are on par with any in the country. As should be obvious, we live with it, and my closest friends are all very passionate about moving to a sustainable future.
And it's quite condescending to think that we Western bumpkins don't believe in human-caused climate change.
"The youngest Americans overwhelmingly accept that climate change is due to human activity, with 72% of under-30s saying that climate change is human caused. In fact only among over-65s is the proportion accepting human caused climate change less than a majority."
Wish Stegner were still around today to set us straight. Monkey-wrenching would be more fun, though.
I attended the Wallace Stegner Symposium at the University of Utah, and the legal/planning/writing minds thinking about energy use in the West are on par with any in the country. As should be obvious, we live with it, and my closest friends are all very passionate about moving to a sustainable future.
And it's quite condescending to think that we Western bumpkins don't believe in human-caused climate change.
"The youngest Americans overwhelmingly accept that climate change is due to human activity, with 72% of under-30s saying that climate change is human caused. In fact only among over-65s is the proportion accepting human caused climate change less than a majority."
Wish Stegner were still around today to set us straight. Monkey-wrenching would be more fun, though.
13
Oh yes indeed. Charly, I'm guessing your reference to monkey-wrenching wasn't meant as a passing remark. For real fun, I'm sure Charly is making a direct reference to Ed Abbey's "The Monkey Wrench Gang" and suggesting it is a very good read. It is. Why it has never been made into a movie is beyond me. Would be a great project for Robert Redford.
Utah has allowed itself to be run by the right wing GOP, and your state sends right wing GOP people to our federal government; their official position is that climate change is fake or if it's real, it's not caused by man, so there is nothing anyone can do about it. So in a sense, anyone living in your state is guilty by association. Hence the bumpkin moniker.
2
Evaporation and leaks are problems. Leaks and soft buttress rocks have undermined Glen Canyon Dam in the past. Another issue that will shorten the useful life of the dam is silt:
https://www.hcn.org/issues/43.6/muddy-waters-silt-and-the-slow-demise-of...
https://www.hcn.org/issues/43.6/muddy-waters-silt-and-the-slow-demise-of...
7
When the climate changes back, think about how much it would cost to build the dam again. Why do they allow idiots to screw things up?
7
Many thousands of years (possibly hundreds of thousands, or millions) will elapse before correction sets in, and not before we cease all heat-trapping emissions.
Here you go:
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:EPICA_temperature_plot.svg
Here you go:
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:EPICA_temperature_plot.svg
4
It will be many thousands (if not millions) of years after we cease emitting heat-trapping greenhouse gases before climate corrects. Here's a good resource on that:
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:EPICA_temperature_plot.svg
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:EPICA_temperature_plot.svg
3
Rebuild the dam? No one is proposing that it be torn down. The gates would be opened. The dam would remain intact.
1
Thank you for this timely and thought-provoking article. The photos are superb. This is a conversation which is long overdue.
9
In a grossly overpopulated World, water IS our most precious resource. "Science" cannot manufacture Water, or Clean Air. And yet, most people think that Water "comes from the faucet". Sometimes, ignorance is bliss - but, not this time.
Dams kill Rivers and entire Eco-systems. Dams don't even work, mathematically . A Dam is not just a big, "given" container vessel. Sediment fills dams at an alarming rate, cutting storage capacity by 35 to 40% in a very few years.
Add to that far less rainfall in the American West, AND polls that show, unbelievably, that of the top 10 concerns for most Americans, Global Warming and Environmental Health are at the very bottom of the list.
Of the many Medical, Political, and Environmental mistakes that were made in the 1950's and 60's, Dams are right at the top of the list. The old, "robust" days of the 50's were justified by saying "don't worry, Science will have all of these problems solved quickly". What rubbish and lies !! Mother Earth was perfect ~ before Greed came in.
We, and our Grandchildren, CAN live in Peace and Good Health here on Earth, but not with the greed mentality of our Politicians and Corporations.
Dams kill Rivers and entire Eco-systems. Dams don't even work, mathematically . A Dam is not just a big, "given" container vessel. Sediment fills dams at an alarming rate, cutting storage capacity by 35 to 40% in a very few years.
Add to that far less rainfall in the American West, AND polls that show, unbelievably, that of the top 10 concerns for most Americans, Global Warming and Environmental Health are at the very bottom of the list.
Of the many Medical, Political, and Environmental mistakes that were made in the 1950's and 60's, Dams are right at the top of the list. The old, "robust" days of the 50's were justified by saying "don't worry, Science will have all of these problems solved quickly". What rubbish and lies !! Mother Earth was perfect ~ before Greed came in.
We, and our Grandchildren, CAN live in Peace and Good Health here on Earth, but not with the greed mentality of our Politicians and Corporations.
32
A balanced take on what the future of the Upper Colorado River Basin looks like as reservoir levels in Lake Powell continue to decline can be found here: http://bit.ly/205WqS6
The brief summary from the link above supports a larger study on the same topic. It goes into depth about the law of the river, how the Western Area Power Administration distributes and purchases "firming" power to makeup for hydropower shortfalls, as well as how environmental programs and recreational access will continued to be impacted.
The brief summary from the link above supports a larger study on the same topic. It goes into depth about the law of the river, how the Western Area Power Administration distributes and purchases "firming" power to makeup for hydropower shortfalls, as well as how environmental programs and recreational access will continued to be impacted.
5
We shouldn't ignore incremental solutions, but the fact is that the underlying agreements governing the Colorado basin were established in 1922 based on 20 years of data that turn out not to be representative of long-term patterns. True: the agreements have been fiddled a few times since then, but a fundamental working is required.
4
I am beginning to believe that ignoring global warming is going to be the biggest folly that mankind has ever done, bar none. And James Inhofe still proclaims it doesn't exist.
25
Climate change is THE most critical issue of the 2016 election. Unfortunately, climate change does not get any air play.
2
So called "lake" Powell is a pitiful sight, made almost ridiculous in its puny size by the magnificence and grandeur of the surrounding environment. Really, it's like sad joke!
We in this nation have been blessed with such stunning landscapes and natural wonders. There's no usefulness to trying to outdo nature. Nature wins! Ans is far more beautiful than any man-made construction.
Save the river. Not the dam!
We in this nation have been blessed with such stunning landscapes and natural wonders. There's no usefulness to trying to outdo nature. Nature wins! Ans is far more beautiful than any man-made construction.
Save the river. Not the dam!
26
A book all westerners and really all of North America should read is Cadillac Desert by Marc Reisner. One of the best non fictional books of the 20th century.
11
Also Ed Abbey's "The Monkey Wrench Gang."
1
Correct, great book about the water system people now take for granted. Another book is Empires of Light about the era of electrification in the late 19th and early 20th century. We have lost are political facility for doing big things, congress is composed of dimwitted small minded individuals.
1
I saw, hiked in, knew Glen Canyon before the dam. I remember fishing in the Black Canyon of the Gunnison and looking up at a bridge being built 100's of feet above me. The dam came later.
I am a Westerner. 5th generation. Though I've been to our big cities, and have traveled to several great cities of the world, I refuse to live amongst them.
I live in a desert. Each of us know that water is life. If anyone, native or visitor, begins to complain about any sort of rain, they are immediately hushed. "Perhaps there are rain gods. Perhaps they note we aren't grateful." Something like this is said regardless of religious conviction.
Water is life!
We have long been disturbed by the diversion of water to support of the burgeoning demands of the megapolis of So Cal (and now Phoenix).
Complex questions don't have simple answers. Blow up the dams? Why aren't we actively, aggressively supporting the placement of solar panels on the roof of every house in the Southwest? Why aren't we demanding that if you live in a desert - you respect the scarcity of water. I need not mention lawns, water features, golf courses, etc.
I dream all these people would go back east where they came from. Leave us alone. That won't happen. What must happen is that people wake up, look up from their texting, look around, breath, and ask themselves if they want to live in those great cities with little power and less water.
Water is not infinite. It all comes from somewhere.
I am a Westerner. 5th generation. Though I've been to our big cities, and have traveled to several great cities of the world, I refuse to live amongst them.
I live in a desert. Each of us know that water is life. If anyone, native or visitor, begins to complain about any sort of rain, they are immediately hushed. "Perhaps there are rain gods. Perhaps they note we aren't grateful." Something like this is said regardless of religious conviction.
Water is life!
We have long been disturbed by the diversion of water to support of the burgeoning demands of the megapolis of So Cal (and now Phoenix).
Complex questions don't have simple answers. Blow up the dams? Why aren't we actively, aggressively supporting the placement of solar panels on the roof of every house in the Southwest? Why aren't we demanding that if you live in a desert - you respect the scarcity of water. I need not mention lawns, water features, golf courses, etc.
I dream all these people would go back east where they came from. Leave us alone. That won't happen. What must happen is that people wake up, look up from their texting, look around, breath, and ask themselves if they want to live in those great cities with little power and less water.
Water is not infinite. It all comes from somewhere.
67
Hello Arizona. You know why those folks in the desert don't put solar panels on their roofs. It doesn't look nice and would detract from their homes' value.
"When that happens....the resurrected Glen Canyon will be emblematic not of our folly but of the graciousness with which nature is still willing to meet our adolescent species halfway. It will be a monument to the possibility that we haven't totally screwed up the planet forever, that we might still be able to back off a little and make our peace with the rest of Creation."
—Bill McKibben, Forward, Resurrection: Glen Canyon and a New Vision for the American West (2009)
18
Edward Abbey was prescient in "The Monkey Wrench Gang" as he often was. A bow shot to our wasteful, materialistic and self centered civilization.
13
Yea! I've already mentioned Abbey and "The Monkey Wrench Gang" twice. Glad somebody else has read the book. Abbey's other books are just as compelling--he was way ahead of the politicians and scientists of the day.
1
Once upon a time in my neck of the woods a dam was built to help flood the ditch being dug as the "Cross Florida Barge Canal". It would have been a disaster. But 60 years ago the Nixon administration defunded and canceled the project. So the Ocklawaha River is dammed, providing no power, destroying downstream and upstream ecosystems, and becoming a maintenance dollar drainage system.
Meanwhile, every attempt at removal has been thwarted by a few bass fishermen and guides because the inundated swamp creating the reservoir has very large largemouth bass.
From where do a few fishers get such disproportionate power? Monopolization of public lands for the benefit of a few is not unheard-of (especially in Florida), but the nagging suspicion is that there are land speculators afoot, hunting for advantage in subdividing and using the hidden government wheels to preserve the Rodman Dam for nefarious purpose.
Meanwhile, every attempt at removal has been thwarted by a few bass fishermen and guides because the inundated swamp creating the reservoir has very large largemouth bass.
From where do a few fishers get such disproportionate power? Monopolization of public lands for the benefit of a few is not unheard-of (especially in Florida), but the nagging suspicion is that there are land speculators afoot, hunting for advantage in subdividing and using the hidden government wheels to preserve the Rodman Dam for nefarious purpose.
95
The Nixon administration took power in January of 1969 and lasted till July of 1974. 60 years ago, Dwight D Eisenhower was president and would be for four more years.
2
The Cross Florida Barge Canal started life during the Roosevelt administration in the early 30s. It only lasted about a year. It came to life again under the Kennedy/Johnson administration and finally passed away under Nixon. The canal path is now a greenway. There's an area south of Ocala known as Roosevelt village where some of the original workers lived. There's an abandoned overpass sitting in the middle of highway 441 south of Ocala left over from Johnson's shovel ready projects. Some government projects work out well, the interstate highway system for example. Others, not so much.
1
So, did you mean Eisenhower rather than Nixon 60 years ago -- or, did you mean Nixon 46-52 years ago rather than 60?!
Whose administration was responsible and when?!
What did he know it and when did he find out?! :-)
Whose administration was responsible and when?!
What did he know it and when did he find out?! :-)
Global warming still a hoax?
4
Decommissioning the GC Dam to fill up Lake Mead is a brilliant, practical idea. I hope common sense prevails.
6
This article is a perfect example of drive-by journalism that I find so annoying in the NYT and other newspapers. I realize the reporter has limited number of words for an article but within that context the information provided is superficial and the major questions not addressed. To wit, could Lake Mead meet it's water delivery and power obligations to California and Arizona without Lake Powell augmenting the currently reduced flow of the Colorado? What would be the economic impact to California and Arizona if water delivery was drastically reduced from Lake Mead?
To the reporter: western water issues from a scientific viewpoint are complex and the economic ramifications for Colorado, Utah, California and Arizona are immense. Instead we get an article that reads more like a junior high cafeteria food fight between environmentalists and Washington bureaucrats. Come on man..
To the reporter: western water issues from a scientific viewpoint are complex and the economic ramifications for Colorado, Utah, California and Arizona are immense. Instead we get an article that reads more like a junior high cafeteria food fight between environmentalists and Washington bureaucrats. Come on man..
13
"To wit, could Lake Mead meet it's water delivery and power obligations to California and Arizona without Lake Powell augmenting the currently reduced flow of the Colorado? "
-------
Lake Powell isn't "augmenting the reduced flow of the Colorado." It IS the Colorado River, behind a dam, as is Lake Mead.
-------
Lake Powell isn't "augmenting the reduced flow of the Colorado." It IS the Colorado River, behind a dam, as is Lake Mead.
12
Abrahm Lustgarten is not a "drive-by" reporter.
https://www.propublica.org/site/author/abrahm_lustgarten
https://www.propublica.org/site/author/abrahm_lustgarten
7
I think this is a case of drive-by reading rather than drive-by reporting. Regarding your questions, the point is that Lake Powell isn't actually providing any water storage beyond what Lake Mead downstream could provide, and instead is losing vast quantities of precious water through leakage and evaporation, while costing the taxpayers lots of money. Lake Powell isn't augmenting anything, and opening it up would allow the same water to be stored downstream with less leakage and evaporation.
2
Once again that curmudgeonly sage of the american western landscape, Edward Abbey, had it right. In 1981 he said " Glen Canyon Dam is an insult to
God's Creation, and if there is a God he will destroy it. And if there
isn't we will take care of it, one way or another, and if we don't then
Mother Nature most certainly will." It's time to bring back the beauty that Abbey, John Wesley Powell and many others before witnessed.
God's Creation, and if there is a God he will destroy it. And if there
isn't we will take care of it, one way or another, and if we don't then
Mother Nature most certainly will." It's time to bring back the beauty that Abbey, John Wesley Powell and many others before witnessed.
29
When you take on Mother Nature, the best you can do is tie - momentarily.
Any outcome beyond what Mother Nature would correct over time, extracts and economic price.
Any outcome beyond what Mother Nature would correct over time, extracts and economic price.
1
"But the Bureau of Reclamation has not adopted Mr. Myers’s findings and has long said that water that seeps into the ground eventually returns to the river. Combining the reservoirs would save negligible amounts of water, in the bureau’s view"
Why does anyone (including the NYT) afford the Bureau of Reclamation any credibility in 2016? In the long history of government misinformation and self-dealing, Reclamation is as close to the top for dishonest dealing as any department.
Why does anyone (including the NYT) afford the Bureau of Reclamation any credibility in 2016? In the long history of government misinformation and self-dealing, Reclamation is as close to the top for dishonest dealing as any department.
5
Excellent article, Mr. Lustgarten. One very minor point though, that gives a bit of pause in your second sentence--- plasma is not red, it's a very pale yellow. The red cells have been removed. Those beautiful gorges are blood red!
2
More nonsense about "climate change' . On the other hand, more storms, rain and moisture in the atmosphere is supposed to be the result of "climate change". It seems that whatever is wrong, the cause is climate change. All of this points to the fact that these speculators have no clue about climate and never have had.
7
Here you go. Assertion is not fact. In 20 years or less, you will no longer be able to deny the rapidly accelerating inconvenient truths of climate change due to global warming due to heat-trapping greenhouse gas emissions. The mirror universe that denies reality is inconsistent and not a million miles removed from big fossil funding.
http://climate.nasa.gov/
http://climate.nasa.gov/
9
WaterBeads can bring 414 million gallons per day from east Texas to the flow of the Colorado River with 8 pairs of guideway and solar energy as the source of power for this transport. With this new flow comes water security that evaporating water into our desert air is providing now. Mankind needs to be smarter about being stewards of what we are given. Fresh water is abundant but not in the desert. That fact defines the problem as transportation and WaterBeads is one sustainable transportation contribution. Not losing all that water gives more water to all those who lay claim to empty water rights (legal paper rights). Lowering Lake Mead is actually good as it reduces evaporation losses. Providing drought water by transportation eases the tension and fear of running out of water as we can then move the exact right amount of water exactly when it is needed. It requires forethought to build the transportation network ahead of the next deepest drought. Pipelines could do this but at a much higher energy and money cost than WaterBeads.
9
I'm confused as to what you're proposing. You suggest that 414 million gallons of water (daily) be transported to somewhere along the Colorado River (or it's tributaries), from east Texas? My geography is little lacking, but isn't the Colorado River Basin west of the continental divide? Plus, you're talking about moving almost 3.5 billion lbs. of material, daily.
1
If over a thousand years ago the Romans could move water effectively with aqueducts, incorporating that technology should reduce the need for an external power source to transport the water from Texas to the Colorado.
Although this is an ad for WaterBeads, I am interested, if this could somehow apply to the evaporation dilemma! I was truly fascinated by those blue plastic beads when I first saw an article on them in the Times. Ground water seepage would continue, I guess, but half of the pie is still better than none.
The past is past. diatribes about governments, the Dept of the Interior, etc etc are pretty much beside the point. I submit that there is one and only one basic question: is the value of the electricity now generated at Glen Canyon greater, or less, than the value of the water that would be saved by reducing evaporation and (disputed) leakage from Lake Powell?
this article should have been written by an engineer. But then it wouldn't consist of mostly irrelevant facts and flaming adjectives.
this article should have been written by an engineer. But then it wouldn't consist of mostly irrelevant facts and flaming adjectives.
10
And it would be dull as dust, had an engineer written it.
1
I am more fearful of the Coolidge Dam holding back the Gila on the Reservation. My brother lives beside the spill way that will one day see the hold back come crashing into the city of Phoenix. How early a warning can they give those down stream? Its' falling apart. If they let it go before it fails, Bro's got an awesome property, otherwise his home will be washed away with thousands more.
32
Interesting!
When I first arrived in southern Utah in 1975, I was enthralled with the beauty of this red rock paradise. And lake Powell was an incredible blue saphire in the midst of astonishing red rock cliffs and formations. After becoming more acquainted with the environment, I was educated to the flaws of Glen Canyon Dam and the fallacy of "growth for growth's sake".. you know, the ideology of the cancer cell.
I DID read "the Population Bomb" back then and I did limit my reproduction to zero growth, that is, two replacement humans. Meanwhile, the US bureau of the Census says the reproduction rate of the US population is just below zero growth, among white, black, hispanic and asian populations. All population growth in the USA is from immigration. According to the US Bureau of the Census.
We have proved we can limit our reproduction, I think we can also limit our waste of precious water. I think of those millions of water flushing toilets in Las Vegas hotels, OY! However, I watched a documentary on water use in Las Vegas and they are doing a pretty good job of recycling and limiting water waste there. We can learn!
Glen Canyon is not destroyed.. it's hibernating. Tear down the damn dam, and we will have the Glen Canyon paradise returned, and much faster than you think. Appreciate the desert for what it is, not for what you want it to be.
I DID read "the Population Bomb" back then and I did limit my reproduction to zero growth, that is, two replacement humans. Meanwhile, the US bureau of the Census says the reproduction rate of the US population is just below zero growth, among white, black, hispanic and asian populations. All population growth in the USA is from immigration. According to the US Bureau of the Census.
We have proved we can limit our reproduction, I think we can also limit our waste of precious water. I think of those millions of water flushing toilets in Las Vegas hotels, OY! However, I watched a documentary on water use in Las Vegas and they are doing a pretty good job of recycling and limiting water waste there. We can learn!
Glen Canyon is not destroyed.. it's hibernating. Tear down the damn dam, and we will have the Glen Canyon paradise returned, and much faster than you think. Appreciate the desert for what it is, not for what you want it to be.
16
Well, they may have saved dinosaur remains to build Glen Canyon Dam, but they sacrificed a heck of a lot of human remains and archeological sites. A survey was hastily made before the water flooded in, and what was lost was priceless. Draining the lake won't bring it back, but it might save some water.
6
As always, thoughtful comments and insight from Times readers including ideas that should be explored. Unfortunately we live with a Congress that won't even fund existing infrastructure let alone new.
20
The Monkey Wrench Gang rides again....vindication!
2
Water = Life in the west. Without it we die. While I appreciate those living in areas with abundant water supplies thinking they have all the answers and solutions to how we in the West should live our lives and manage our limited water supplies, I wonder how they would react were we in the west to start dictating how they should manage their local resources. Would they be so welcoming and accommodating? I think not.
3
Maybe if Trump becomes president he'll dismantle the Glen Canyon Dam and transport it to the Mexican border to build his wall. It'll be great! We'll love it!
5
For point of comparison and to reinforce the ridiculousness of Trump's wall:
The Glen Canyon Dam contains approximately 48.3 million cubic feet of concrete. If you were to move all that concrete to the Mexican border to build a wall 20 feet tall and 3 feet wide, the concrete from Glen Canyon would get you 152 miles of wall--about 9% of the total needed.
The Glen Canyon Dam contains approximately 48.3 million cubic feet of concrete. If you were to move all that concrete to the Mexican border to build a wall 20 feet tall and 3 feet wide, the concrete from Glen Canyon would get you 152 miles of wall--about 9% of the total needed.
5
Excessive pumping of water for agriculture, industry and human consumption in urban areas has lowered the water table well below the native plants’ root zone.
The aquifer underlying central Tucson, in the Sonoran Desert, has fallen more than 200 feet in the last fifty years. To supplement the deficiency, water from the Colorado River basin, several hundred miles north, has been diverted south by the enormous water transportation infrastructure of the Central Arizona Project.
Pumping fossil groundwater and importing water from other regions has delayed the inevitable need that people migrating into the desert have to moderate their habits of limitless consumption as they continue to reproduce the world they left behind.
The lesson I have learned from the desert is well inscribed in Joseph Wood Crutch's 'The Voice of the Desert,'
"…the desert is conservative, not radical.” It encourages “…the heroism of endurance, not that of conquest.” The desert is the last frontier, “…a frontier that cannot be crossed. It brings man up against his limitations.”
There is no shortage of water in the desert but exactly the right amount, a perfect ratio of water to rock, of water to sand, insuring that wide free open generous spacing among plants and animals, homes and towns and cities, which makes the arid West so different from any other parts of the nation. There is no lack of water here, unless you try to establish a city where no city should be.
The aquifer underlying central Tucson, in the Sonoran Desert, has fallen more than 200 feet in the last fifty years. To supplement the deficiency, water from the Colorado River basin, several hundred miles north, has been diverted south by the enormous water transportation infrastructure of the Central Arizona Project.
Pumping fossil groundwater and importing water from other regions has delayed the inevitable need that people migrating into the desert have to moderate their habits of limitless consumption as they continue to reproduce the world they left behind.
The lesson I have learned from the desert is well inscribed in Joseph Wood Crutch's 'The Voice of the Desert,'
"…the desert is conservative, not radical.” It encourages “…the heroism of endurance, not that of conquest.” The desert is the last frontier, “…a frontier that cannot be crossed. It brings man up against his limitations.”
There is no shortage of water in the desert but exactly the right amount, a perfect ratio of water to rock, of water to sand, insuring that wide free open generous spacing among plants and animals, homes and towns and cities, which makes the arid West so different from any other parts of the nation. There is no lack of water here, unless you try to establish a city where no city should be.
17
You have another article in the paper today that offers the solution: float solar cells on the surface of the reservoirs. Energy shortage solved, evaporation losses solved. You should read your own paper.
3
Not a bad idea except where will I park my 150-foot yacht?
1
The article argues that changes should be made due to climate change. Fine, I don't think anything should be done until after the change happen. Why not keep using the dams until it is too late? It's already there. Water leaks into the ground, but I bet that the flow has reached an equilibrium with the surrounding aquifer: water leaked equals water being taken out through wells and plants. Given that the area isn't very well developed, I suspect the federal government is more likely to be correct.
1
Humans are facing water shortages around the globe and they will not only continue, but increase. The aquifers in the U.S. are drying up - the dams are only one problem facing our country's water problems. Unless we begin a long term program to manage our water supply, we will face severe shortages within 50 years. Once an aquifer dries up, it can take 100 years for it to replenish itself. The federal government must work with the States to jointly encourage managing the water supply.
5
Even Mullholand realized that without diverting enormous volumes of water that is needed to support Los Angeles alone, there would be trouble. To take a maximum support of humans from fewer than a half million by natural sources to the burden that we've imposed is unsustainable .
5
Well, there is a contingent of Republicans in Congress who want to do away with national parks and preserves and I assume dams and other "Federal intrusions" on states rights.
They would be more than agreeable to take out all the dams, sell off the parks but not before they and their campaign contributors buy up water rights....
Over development of the desert, as predicted will not stop....it's that simple
They would be more than agreeable to take out all the dams, sell off the parks but not before they and their campaign contributors buy up water rights....
Over development of the desert, as predicted will not stop....it's that simple
3
There is an excellent series at Propubilica.com titled "Killing the Colorado" that gives an over view of the whole situation.
1
Abrahm Lustgarten is a fine fine reporter. I devoured his work a year or three back, available through NPR, I think. His thoughtful treatment and careful objectivity are entirely admirable. I am grateful to the NYT for providing this perspective.
This sounds like an excellent idea, but I doubt with our political situation and all the vested actors, that long sight rather than short sight will prevail in any reasonable timeframe. We have the example of "use it or lose it" farmers wasting their water instead of sharing it, to keep their rights. And the tangle of law is unbelievable, along with the obstacles to change in the courts. Nonetheless, we can hope.
There is an article about Japanese floating solar panels which I think might be a useful addition to the mix.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/24/science/solar-power-floating-on-water....
As for those still denying the reality of climate change, it's time for them to open their eyes and minds and take a look around. Extraordinary weather and weather hazards are on the increase, along with ocean acidification (coral bleaching, dead zones, etc.), wildfires, Arctic and Greenland melt, more drought where it's dry, changing seasons and wildlife/insect migrations, and other hazards that are observed worldwide for those who have not blinded themselves to it.
This sounds like an excellent idea, but I doubt with our political situation and all the vested actors, that long sight rather than short sight will prevail in any reasonable timeframe. We have the example of "use it or lose it" farmers wasting their water instead of sharing it, to keep their rights. And the tangle of law is unbelievable, along with the obstacles to change in the courts. Nonetheless, we can hope.
There is an article about Japanese floating solar panels which I think might be a useful addition to the mix.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/24/science/solar-power-floating-on-water....
As for those still denying the reality of climate change, it's time for them to open their eyes and minds and take a look around. Extraordinary weather and weather hazards are on the increase, along with ocean acidification (coral bleaching, dead zones, etc.), wildfires, Arctic and Greenland melt, more drought where it's dry, changing seasons and wildlife/insect migrations, and other hazards that are observed worldwide for those who have not blinded themselves to it.
32
Oh, and Congress? Vote, people, vote! Throw the bums out, the haters and the obstructionists who support their funders from the Kochtopus, big fossil, Rove, etc. etc. We need some serious action on things like this. Right now, one senator can block even discussion if there is not a 60:40 majority. What a hope!
33
Ah, it was ProPublica, which I heard on the radio before I looked it up. Referencing his page, because it includes his range of articles. He answers a lot of different questions posed here, as he did a very thorough job of exploring and reporting.
https://www.propublica.org/site/author/abrahm_lustgarten
Those coal plants are a monster! First time I ever thought natgas would be a good thing, though I'm against fracking on principle, especially building new infrastructure for it, which ties up the future for a dubious bargain.
https://www.propublica.org/site/author/abrahm_lustgarten
Those coal plants are a monster! First time I ever thought natgas would be a good thing, though I'm against fracking on principle, especially building new infrastructure for it, which ties up the future for a dubious bargain.
2
Leave the Dam up, but open the gates and drain the lake, then, after the lake is gone, declare Glen Canyon a national monument. Glen Canyon is often called the 'lost national park', restoring it and setting it aside as a monument is something that absolutely should be done. the agreements made in the West about water in the 1920s, greatly exceeded the amount of water that is actually in the river, thus once all the states take their cut, there is nothing left by the time it reaches Mexico. the agreements need to be updated , to reflect the actual amounts of water in the river, and leaving some water in the river for nature. Combing the reservoirs into 1 makes sense, theres no need for 2 half-empty reservoirs 300 miles apart. Plus, Glen Canyon will draw lots of tourists(it already does as a recreational area), and will become a big draw in the region, due to its beauty and it being part of the same extended canyon system as the Grand Canyon. We are already seeing dams being taken down (Klamath comes to mind) but Glen Canyon would rectify one of the biggest environmental mistakes of the 1960s, and give the US one of its most beautiful areas back. This time, we will need to protect it.
243
Have you been there? The bottoms of the canyons are filled with billions of tons of mud and the submerged walls are coated with sediment and slime. I wonder how many years it would take for all this to be washed down to Lake Mead, and how long it will take Mead to silt up to the point of uselessness? I remember swimming at Hite in the 1970's. Go have a look now. Hiking down into the basin now puts one on miles of weed choked mudflats.
It's a shame the dam was built and the canyons ruined, but it might be centuries of recovery to undo the damage.
It's a shame the dam was built and the canyons ruined, but it might be centuries of recovery to undo the damage.
7
Yes I have, as part of a trip out West in the 90s. letting the river flow again, will, over time, carry that silt and sediment down stream. thats how the Mississippi Delta was built, all those islands in the Gulf are as a result of deposits of sediment deposited by the river over the ages. We see various cleanups of caves and other formations in the national parks. in Carlsbad Caverns , for instance, volunteers go around, cleaning the formations free of all the stuff visitors leave behind, hair, skin flakes and so on. would be a good way to give folks a job, spraying off all the silt and sediment throughout the canyons. they get a job, the canyon gets a much needed bath, and the workers spend their paychecks in nearby towns, ie everyone wins, in the end. You'd likely have a bathtub ring effect like there is at Lake Mead, the discoloration shows where the water level used to be. at first of course, there would be a lot of muck to clean up, but Nature has a way of healing itself very quickly, we are already seeing rapid recovery of habitat in the Northwest from dam removal there, and the dam only came down a couple years ago. Not only would draining the lake reveal the previously submerged canyons, it would have positive impacts on Grand Canyon National Park, in terms of creating new habitat for fish and other wildlife. even a short term release of water, as was done a couple years ago, created new sandbars and had positive impact on the wildlife.
4
I agree with you absolutely, but Glen Canyon will be anything but beautiful for years to come. A site flooded for so long will be filthy with sediment, its jagged contours draped in algae, its petroglyphs likely long gone. Think of an aquarium left to dry out. With luck, its natural beauty will return in a few generations.
Glen Canyon Dam stands as one of man's worst mistakes, a monument to the arrogance of big government and the short-sightedness of the "growth at all costs" idea in an arid land.
The benefits of decommissioning GCD are many; tourism has ebbed at Powell, which is now clogged with invasive mussels that damage boat hardware. The reservoir depends on motorized boat recreation, making it the playground of the wealthy only. By returning the Colorado's flow to Glen Canyon, the river will see a huge boost in recreational float trips as people come to see a "brand new" canyon recently emerged. Glen Canyon would also qualify as a national park immediately. The increase in tourist dollars would have a great impact on the poor towns surrounding the area.
The water gains would be much-needed in the current drought-stricken Southwest. GCD serves no actual purpose as a water-supply, as the water is merely stored to appease a miscalculated political agreement. Powell delivers zero water to any large municipalities unlike Lake Mead which directly supplies Vegas.
Almost no one alive has seen Glen Canyon, a place that has been described in the most glowing terms by those lucky few who saw it before the dam was built. One of the world's most beautiful and irreplaceable canyon systems is waiting to be experienced for the first time in modern history.
Removing the dam would announce to the world that the USA can admit its mistakes, and even reverse them, for the betterment of everyone.
The benefits of decommissioning GCD are many; tourism has ebbed at Powell, which is now clogged with invasive mussels that damage boat hardware. The reservoir depends on motorized boat recreation, making it the playground of the wealthy only. By returning the Colorado's flow to Glen Canyon, the river will see a huge boost in recreational float trips as people come to see a "brand new" canyon recently emerged. Glen Canyon would also qualify as a national park immediately. The increase in tourist dollars would have a great impact on the poor towns surrounding the area.
The water gains would be much-needed in the current drought-stricken Southwest. GCD serves no actual purpose as a water-supply, as the water is merely stored to appease a miscalculated political agreement. Powell delivers zero water to any large municipalities unlike Lake Mead which directly supplies Vegas.
Almost no one alive has seen Glen Canyon, a place that has been described in the most glowing terms by those lucky few who saw it before the dam was built. One of the world's most beautiful and irreplaceable canyon systems is waiting to be experienced for the first time in modern history.
Removing the dam would announce to the world that the USA can admit its mistakes, and even reverse them, for the betterment of everyone.
104
It might make sense to do this, but don't fool yourself about reversing the damage. It will be decades before a rafter sees much of anything other than huge cutbanks in the silt deposits. The first few big thunderstorms will generate epic mudflows down river.
4
Au contraire - Page and Lake Powell are having incredible tourism numbers these past few years. No doubt at some point, people will find another area that fascinates them, and we will go back to normal numbers. But for now, we long term residents are overwhelmed by visitation.
As for returning the canyon to it's former glory (and I mourn the loss of the original very much), it will take years, perhaps a lifetime or two. Until that happens, float trips will view far more sludge and silt build up than pristine canyons, never mind all the quagga mussels which have found their way here.
And finally, Lake Powell was built to provide water storage for Lake Mead, and thus provide water for municipalities such as Vegas.
As for returning the canyon to it's former glory (and I mourn the loss of the original very much), it will take years, perhaps a lifetime or two. Until that happens, float trips will view far more sludge and silt build up than pristine canyons, never mind all the quagga mussels which have found their way here.
And finally, Lake Powell was built to provide water storage for Lake Mead, and thus provide water for municipalities such as Vegas.
If you haven't read Cadillac Desert by Marc Reisner, I highly recommend it. Having lived in the west 41 years, it is abundantly clear big agriculture and population centers in the west are dependent upon the subsidized irrigation and electricity they receive as a result of all the dams built from the depression to the end of the last century. According to Reisner, the numbers to justify the construction of most all dams were cooked to indicate they would pay for themselves. They never have and never will. Big AG and big population centers are wholly dependent upon the subsidized electricity and subsidized
irrigation. Here in the northwest, salmon runs have dwindled to less than 2% of historical numbers as a result of dams on the Colombia and her tributaries. The proposal to remove 4 dams on the Snake River will restore over a third of the salmon habitat in the entire Colombia basin.
I was a child when beautiful Glen Canyon dam was built and flooded. This article is a strong argument for its removal and I support it. We need to conserve electrical use, and there are many more available options where the technology didn't exist in 1961.
irrigation. Here in the northwest, salmon runs have dwindled to less than 2% of historical numbers as a result of dams on the Colombia and her tributaries. The proposal to remove 4 dams on the Snake River will restore over a third of the salmon habitat in the entire Colombia basin.
I was a child when beautiful Glen Canyon dam was built and flooded. This article is a strong argument for its removal and I support it. We need to conserve electrical use, and there are many more available options where the technology didn't exist in 1961.
307
A good Comment indeed for us NorthWest readers. The salmon issue is the one that caught my eye first. I was raised in Spokane and traveled through the sites
with my father while construction was going on full bore. JGAIA-
with my father while construction was going on full bore. JGAIA-
2
I just happen to be rereading Monkey Wrench Gang, which covers this exact topic. After more than 30 years, it seems like a story about another world.
2
Thank you so much for the reference on the Marc Reisner book. It is not available from the NY Public Library but I've put in a request for it. Another good and related read is "Colossus, on the building of the Hoover Dam, by Michael Hiltzik". Also view"Plagues & Pleasures on the Salton Sea (2004)" a documentary. The Salton Sea area is very strange. I was there last December.
Whenever I read these kinds of stories, I cant help but wonder who the free-riders are. Or, who is paying less than their fair share. Or who is using more water for less than desirable results than others.
So if Las Vegas can make many billions from the availability of water to underpin their expansion of money making tourism, do they pay their proportional share for their use?
Proportional meaning- the water has more value to them, so do they pay more or are they grossly underpaying for the return on investment they get from having readily available water.
If you are going to move all that water into close proximity to Vegas, I'd make them pay for it. Every bit of it. Including lost revenue from that water and the electricity at Glen Canyon/Lake Powell.
Lets face it, Las Vegas has a very high rate of return on investment for water use. Having them pay less for water than smaller communities, farmers etc just because they buy huge amounts is upside down. They should pay more, much more. They do more with it.
So if Las Vegas can make many billions from the availability of water to underpin their expansion of money making tourism, do they pay their proportional share for their use?
Proportional meaning- the water has more value to them, so do they pay more or are they grossly underpaying for the return on investment they get from having readily available water.
If you are going to move all that water into close proximity to Vegas, I'd make them pay for it. Every bit of it. Including lost revenue from that water and the electricity at Glen Canyon/Lake Powell.
Lets face it, Las Vegas has a very high rate of return on investment for water use. Having them pay less for water than smaller communities, farmers etc just because they buy huge amounts is upside down. They should pay more, much more. They do more with it.
21
Backpacking in the Escalante National Monument north of Lake Powell is sublime. The reemergence of the geology and artifacts currently submerged would be an incredible environmental enhancement. There are approximately 16,000 desalinization plants in the world. Why not tap the abundant Pacific Ocean and return our magnificent Western rivers to their wild,untamed state. The income generated from increased tourism and restored fisheries would help to defray a portion of the cost and the positive externalities created by the geological and hydrological aesthetics would be priceless.
15
"Cadillac Desert," released in 1986, yes, 30 years ago exposed the fallacy of building dams in the West to created water. What is happening to Glen Canyon Dam is just what the book projected. People never learn. We cannot turn the desert in to the Garden of Eden,
29
Everyone concerned with these water issues in Western United States should read/reread Marc Reisner's Cadillac Desert and view the PBS documentary by the same name. Both the book and the documentary give a comprehensive history of the damming of the and the development of water for L.A. and other cities. They also confirm much of what is happening now. Of course, the bigger problem is climate change and resulting drought. Foolish water policy can be hidden by abundance, and starkly revealed by scarcity. Marc Reisner said it. 'When you have less, you simply cut smaller pieces of the pie.' Given our on-going denial of climate change, that's the present and future history.
137
If you really want to understand water policy in the Southwest "Cadillac Desert" is the standard.
Myers, and all of the others, are DREAMING!! His estimates of leakage are his opinion, not science, among many other issues. Fisheries? You mean the humpback chub? Seriously? Fisherman prefer the trout that have replaced them downstream.
Never gonna happen. It would take years to unwind all of the current agreements and replace them. The upper basin states will never agree, the dam is their insurance against California.
The dam still furnishes vital, clean, renewable, cheap energy.
And don't be fooled by the accompanying picture, it's downstream of the dam. During low water operations, the bureau nearly shuts the flow off during low demand periods. A very selective photo for a very selective article that verges on propaganda.
Snow pack is nearly 100% this year and the lake is starting to come up fast. It, and the dam, aren't going anywhere.
Never gonna happen. It would take years to unwind all of the current agreements and replace them. The upper basin states will never agree, the dam is their insurance against California.
The dam still furnishes vital, clean, renewable, cheap energy.
And don't be fooled by the accompanying picture, it's downstream of the dam. During low water operations, the bureau nearly shuts the flow off during low demand periods. A very selective photo for a very selective article that verges on propaganda.
Snow pack is nearly 100% this year and the lake is starting to come up fast. It, and the dam, aren't going anywhere.
4
The solution to evaporation is on another page! Cover the lake with solar panels. http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/24/science/solar-power-floating-on-water....
4
I'd say, a partial solution ... fwiw
The article notes that the dam is "far less efficient and effective than their champions had hoped." It gave evaporation and underground leakage as the reason.
It should be noted the evaporation and ground leakage are well known engineering estimates, and it is likely the engineers anticipated this.
It would be more accurate to say the dam is less efficient and effective because of unanticipated population growth, and climate change.
It should be noted the evaporation and ground leakage are well known engineering estimates, and it is likely the engineers anticipated this.
It would be more accurate to say the dam is less efficient and effective because of unanticipated population growth, and climate change.
5
As I continually read articles like this.....I would just ask the readers to look in the Mirror and think of the 7 deadly sins....Greed ,Pride, Gluttony, Sloth, Envy ,Lust, and the one reserved for God .....Wrath....and ask yourselves...are you worth your weight in Water or Salt/!
Anyone who really wants to be informed about this issue should read below. Contrary to popular news sources the last 100 years has been wetter than average in the basin. Stream allocations based on this recent "wet period" data done in 1926 overestimate the amount of water in the river and are bound to be inadequate.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/05/060529082300.htm?trendmd-s...
The main points of the 1976 research hold up. Droughts more severe and intense than we've seen in the gaged record occurred in the past, and the long-term mean flow is lower than the gaged mean flow."
Connie A. Woodhouse said, "The updated reconstruction for Lee’s Ferry indicates that as many as eight droughts similar in severity, in terms of average flow, to the 5-year 2000-2004 drought have occurred since 1500." Woodhouse, who led the research team, is a physical scientist at the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) National Climatic Data Center Paleoclimatogy Branch in Boulder, Colo.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/05/060529082300.htm?trendmd-s...
The main points of the 1976 research hold up. Droughts more severe and intense than we've seen in the gaged record occurred in the past, and the long-term mean flow is lower than the gaged mean flow."
Connie A. Woodhouse said, "The updated reconstruction for Lee’s Ferry indicates that as many as eight droughts similar in severity, in terms of average flow, to the 5-year 2000-2004 drought have occurred since 1500." Woodhouse, who led the research team, is a physical scientist at the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) National Climatic Data Center Paleoclimatogy Branch in Boulder, Colo.
7
And the mega-droughts of the MWP were even worse.
1
Clearly a complicated issue, but it ought to be clear that water that leaks out of the bottom of Lake Powel likely has no where else to go other than back into the river as it migrates through the subsurface, likely re-emerging downstream. Or, it would be stored/available as groundwater.
Still, it is clear that global warming has changed the original rationale for this dam, and may continue to undermine its practicality. We have changed the climate, and these kinds of tough decisions will keep coming at us.
Still, it is clear that global warming has changed the original rationale for this dam, and may continue to undermine its practicality. We have changed the climate, and these kinds of tough decisions will keep coming at us.
2
Perhaps President Trump can be convinced that rather than build a wall between the US and Mexico, he should build a dam!
The real problem is not the on-going drought and the lack of water in the west. The real problem is that there are just too many people in the west, with more lured there every day by the false promises of Chambers of Commerce and real estate developers. Much of the west is, was and always will be a desert. In the long run it can never support the tens of millions of people who have moved there. Nor can it feed the rest of the nation. This is the most serious problem faced by our nation, but we all tend to look the other way.
476
You could also add that the lack of regulation to require appropriate, self-supporting populations is part of the problem. Las Vegas apparently has a loophole allowing it to take out far more water than is warranted. Our analysis on population growth is backwards. We should recognize an area for what it is - dry, arid, desert - and require proof of water resources before we allow development. There is nothing wrong with areas remaining rural. In fact, it is nature's way of mandating low population density for many areas.
2
Too many people is the root cause of all environmental problems everywhere. The US compounds the relentless stress on the environment by tolerating - no, encouraging - massive illegal immigration. Without illegal immigration, our population would be declining toward more tolerable levels.
2
The Northeast cannot support the vast millions who live there, either.
1
I found this article to be full of exaggeration and hyperbole. It's as if someone willfully decided to paint the most biased and extreme view of the present state of Lake Powell and then went at it with all the biased adjectives and adverbs that they could find, coupled with data that is relatively meaningless.
For example, the author says that San Carlos Reservoir behind Coolidge Dam "is virtually empty". While the statement can AT TIMES be almost true, it totally ignores what the function of San Carlos Reservoir is. It was designed and is used for supplying agricultural water supply to Central Arizona. As such it is filled during periods of rain - which in Arizona is both winter and summer. Then the water is disbursed to the irrigation districts as part of an overall water supply system coordinated with other sources. Sometimes it holds its water, other times it lets it flow freely.
In the last 7 days, from May 13 to May 20, it dumped about 10% of its present storage as it is now time for San Carlos Reservoir to play its part in an overall supply system. http://waterdata.usgs.gov/nwis/uv?site_no=09469000
Can you find little water in San Carlos? Certainly, but it's all timing. The author is very disingenuous in this example and in this article.
PS: Tubing was great this last week on the Gila at Winkelman and Hayden!
For example, the author says that San Carlos Reservoir behind Coolidge Dam "is virtually empty". While the statement can AT TIMES be almost true, it totally ignores what the function of San Carlos Reservoir is. It was designed and is used for supplying agricultural water supply to Central Arizona. As such it is filled during periods of rain - which in Arizona is both winter and summer. Then the water is disbursed to the irrigation districts as part of an overall water supply system coordinated with other sources. Sometimes it holds its water, other times it lets it flow freely.
In the last 7 days, from May 13 to May 20, it dumped about 10% of its present storage as it is now time for San Carlos Reservoir to play its part in an overall supply system. http://waterdata.usgs.gov/nwis/uv?site_no=09469000
Can you find little water in San Carlos? Certainly, but it's all timing. The author is very disingenuous in this example and in this article.
PS: Tubing was great this last week on the Gila at Winkelman and Hayden!
5
At last! Someone who lives out here and understands the functions and purposes of the water engineering projects - large and small - that surround us hardy desert dwellers. [Kudos to matthewobrien on his tubing adventure, floating right past my property in Winkelman!]
I worked in the water biz for 11 years, and I think I understand what we're trying to do out here. Some of the smartest people I've ever met are entrusted with the delivery and planning of water to the millions of people in the American West.
We don't waste water, no matter what all the East Coast intelligentsia and their greenie brothers want to believe. Not even Las Vegas, which accomplishes more with less water than just about anywhere else.
I'm most familiar with Arizona, however. In our state, we have been a consistent leader in visionary planning for water needs. We began planning for potential shortages on the Colorado River - our main lifeblood - years ago. If it comes, we will be prepared. That is how people survive in the desert.
I worked in the water biz for 11 years, and I think I understand what we're trying to do out here. Some of the smartest people I've ever met are entrusted with the delivery and planning of water to the millions of people in the American West.
We don't waste water, no matter what all the East Coast intelligentsia and their greenie brothers want to believe. Not even Las Vegas, which accomplishes more with less water than just about anywhere else.
I'm most familiar with Arizona, however. In our state, we have been a consistent leader in visionary planning for water needs. We began planning for potential shortages on the Colorado River - our main lifeblood - years ago. If it comes, we will be prepared. That is how people survive in the desert.
1
In response to the last paragraph of this article, once you build something that might have been highly questionable in the first place, you're stuck with it? Can't be changed? Can't be modified in any way? Baloney.
Congress passed a bill to build a dam, therefore the dam has to stay forever unless Congress agrees? And, it is too much trouble to have things changed?
Trouble is useful. It forces us to come to terms with new circumstances and to have a long period of education about what has changed. It might force people to realize that we can't ever really control nature, that we channel and confine it until she decides to bite back. As for agreements between the states and a treaty with Mexico, the first step would be to study whether opening Glen Canyon could be made to conform with those agreements.
I was fortunate to go boating on Lake Mead a couple of times before the water level dropped. It was a magnificent experience, but I make no judgement about whether the enjoyment I received was worth the loss of the prior natural environment, even though I acknowledge that not everything can be preserved in its original state. (There are those who see almost any human impact as evil and I am not one of them.)
It seems unlikely, based on the information provided, that the situation with these dams in the west can continue indefinitely. Sooner or later, dams will fall, or open up. Why not get started now, carefully and wisely?
Doug Terry
8
My brother was born there. My father worked on the construction of the damn for several years in the late 50's and early sixties. And I love Northern Arizona and the Colorado River.
If the articles numbers are correct there is no justification for NOT returning the river to the wild. All we have to do is open the valves in the bottom of the dam wide open. We don't need to destroy anything or break and laws.
Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's. Give nature back her canyon. It is time.
If the articles numbers are correct there is no justification for NOT returning the river to the wild. All we have to do is open the valves in the bottom of the dam wide open. We don't need to destroy anything or break and laws.
Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's. Give nature back her canyon. It is time.
205
The Canyon belongs to the Feds, not Mother Nature.
1
Jesus added, "And render to God the things that are God's." Glen Canyon was God's country if ever there was. Caesar built the dam that buried it. Give God back what belongs to Him. He will take it back eventually anyway.
1
Wonderfully said, thank you.
ProPublica's series of articles on this topic (Killing the Colorado) is an excellent, excellent assessment of water in the West. Highly recommended for anyone that wants to understand the many of the perspectives that are in play.
3
Just 3 weeks ago, I was actually there. I toured the Glen Canyon Dam visitor center. I also spent a day on a boat ride touring Glen Canyon Reservoir (and visiting Rainbow Bridge). Based on what I witnessed, I have trouble reconciling my observations with statements made by the author. He says that the reservoir is at less than half capacity. Yet, when I spoke with an employee at the dam's visitor center, he told me that the dam is currently generating electricity at about 70% of maximum capacity. When boating on the reservoir, it is easy to see that the water levels are down. But at less than half capacity? The high-water marks are easy to see on the shoreline due to discoloration. I might estimate that the current water levels are 20 to 30 feet below the high-water mark. The dam itself is 710 feet high. How does this translate into a reservoir at half capacity? I realize that a cross-section of the reservoir would look somewhat V-shaped, but I still have trouble visualizing the accuracy of this statement.
4
Literary hyperbole is the answer. Fear mongering might be another.
Lake Powell is currently 103 feet below full pool at 47% of capacity.
http://lakepowell.water-data.com/
http://lakepowell.water-data.com/
5
The amazing Google and it's access to information. Lake Powell water levels are reported in near real time. Lake Powell is currently at 3597 feet. This is 103 feet below, and 47% by volume, of "full pool." What is not as clear is whether "full pool" has ever been the typical annual water mark, or if it's just a level that they hit in exceptional runoff years. In addition, 3597 feet is approximately 90% of the average reading for May 20th since the original filling of Lake Powell.
Additionally, power generation and fill level are not the same thing. The lake can be generating 70% of maximum power while not being 70% full.
Additionally, power generation and fill level are not the same thing. The lake can be generating 70% of maximum power while not being 70% full.
3
Please see today's article about floating solar panels- These installations would reduce water loss from evaporation and create reliable electrical power- a "win-win". http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/24/science/solar-power-floating-on-water....®ion=bottom-well&WT.nav=bottom-well
5
I wrote a paper on the decommissioning of the Glen Canyon Dam ten years ago in law school. This article is interesting but ignores a plethora of negative impacts - environmental and economic - that would occur if the dam is decommissioned. In short, it's a very complicated issue.
http://jeremy.klezmer.org/GlenCanyon.pdf
http://jeremy.klezmer.org/GlenCanyon.pdf
4
Good paper. Gives me a better history and perspective. Thanks.
All the green lawns and rose bushes in the desert aren't helping the problem.
5
When I read this I thought of the strategy being used in LA reservoirs of using floating balls to reduce evaporation:
http://www.plasticsnews.com/article/20160115/NEWS/160119829/los-angeles-...
There are other possible ideas:
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/24/science/solar-power-floating-on-water....
http://www.plasticsnews.com/article/20160115/NEWS/160119829/los-angeles-...
There are other possible ideas:
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/24/science/solar-power-floating-on-water....
2
As one of those who grew up while these then extolled dams were a needed source of jobs, I wonder what will happen to the broken up concrete. What a waste any way you go. JGAIA
1
Can't believe you wrote a whole piece abut this and didn't once mention Edward Abby, who, you know, wrote a whole freakin' book about this damn dam's construction and destruction.
10
Yep -- he's grinning wherever he is!
Hayduke Lives!
Hayduke Lives!
2
Please, please, please let this happen. Let the water flow.
7
Well written and thank you for exploring this subject for the larger world. These dams would not be built today and that is good news. In the mid 20th century there were no restraints on these behemoths or consideration given to their downsides. Glen Canyon was drowned by "Lake Powell" and I will always regret never having seen its splendor. That "lake" is silting up very quickly due to the load naturally carried by the Colorado and its location. That means its pool capacity will eventually dwindle to near nothingness. A puddle of mud . Mindless places like Las Vegas owe their very existence to the mindset that produced these structures with the promise of cheap largely wasted water to make golfing and fountains in the desert possible and cheap power for cheesy neon signage. This too shall pass and the Colorado system will eventually cleanse itself.
3
Consider this passage in the article:
"Combining the reservoirs would save negligible amounts of water, in the bureau’s view.
“This is an attempt to find a water supply rationale which supports their recreational focus and narrow view of what the river should look like,” said Colby Pellegrino, the Colorado River programs manager for the Southern Nevada Water Authority. "
_________
Even if there were only negligible savings of water by combining the two reservoirs, the fact that doing so creates recreational opportunities and environmental benefits makes the choice a no-brainer.
It seems like Pellegrino is behaving in the worst tradition of power-jealous bureaucrats...
"Combining the reservoirs would save negligible amounts of water, in the bureau’s view.
“This is an attempt to find a water supply rationale which supports their recreational focus and narrow view of what the river should look like,” said Colby Pellegrino, the Colorado River programs manager for the Southern Nevada Water Authority. "
_________
Even if there were only negligible savings of water by combining the two reservoirs, the fact that doing so creates recreational opportunities and environmental benefits makes the choice a no-brainer.
It seems like Pellegrino is behaving in the worst tradition of power-jealous bureaucrats...
3
This sounds like a great proposal that could satisfy all needs. And, being an avid outdoorsman who has camped and hiked along the Colorado and Green Rivers many times, I would love to see the Glen Canyon and Colorado River areas return to their former natural glory.
107
Unless you live in Utah....
" I would love to see the Glen Canyon and Colorado River areas return to their former natural glory." DITTO***
1
Washington County in southwestern Utah is mushrooming. Las Vegas is a huge blight. LA is thirsty. This issue is hugely messy, and it could reshape the political landscape in the entire West.
One thing though--if you drain Lake Powell, the canyon will not be like Zion park or the Grand Canyon--the walls of the lake are bleached white, like dried bones, and it will be decades before it will be pretty again. The aesthetic argument is not a valid one. I am in favor of draining the lake, but it will only be able to happen if people use correct arguments.
One thing though--if you drain Lake Powell, the canyon will not be like Zion park or the Grand Canyon--the walls of the lake are bleached white, like dried bones, and it will be decades before it will be pretty again. The aesthetic argument is not a valid one. I am in favor of draining the lake, but it will only be able to happen if people use correct arguments.
2
" ... the walls of the lake are bleached white, like dried bones, and it will be decades before it will be pretty again. The aesthetic argument is not a valid one. "
-------
They aren't bleached; the white is a layer that builds up over the native sandstone and it comes off relatively quickly when the water level drops. I went boating on Lake Powell in 2004 to explore the side canyons exposed when the level was very low, and saw peeling walls everywhere. It was heartening to see how quickly vegetation had been restored naturally to many of the side canyons.
-------
They aren't bleached; the white is a layer that builds up over the native sandstone and it comes off relatively quickly when the water level drops. I went boating on Lake Powell in 2004 to explore the side canyons exposed when the level was very low, and saw peeling walls everywhere. It was heartening to see how quickly vegetation had been restored naturally to many of the side canyons.
5
Fresh, potable water is probably the most precious resource we have in the arid west, yet we price it like it's garbage. Salt Lake City, for instance, has some of the lowest water rates in the country - and I routinely see sprinklers that are supposed to be watering (water wasting) lawns pouring water into the street. But as long as we continue to price water like garbage, people will continue to treat it like it's garbage.
12
The Glen Canyon Dam was a big mistake. Edward Abbey expressed many conservationists fantasy when he included instructions for blowing up the dam in his book, "The Monkey Wrench Gang". The Dam never lived up to its promise. In Washington State we have seen how rapidly a river heals after the four Elwa River dams were removed allowing the river to run free. I would love to have lived long enough to see the Glen Canyon Dam gone, restoring the river to its natural flow and to be able to hike the beautiful landscape that lies under the water.
19
Just try to drain Lake Powell. The citizens of two of the most conservative states in the union, Utah and Arizona, will come up with every "rights" ploy in the book to stop it.
Plus, the heavy Native American population in Page, Arizona, which became the city that was the camp where the workers lived who built the Glen Canyon Dam, will bring up the "way of life" issue.
I would like to remind the good readers of this august venue that Arizona is doing just fine with water conservation. In fact, landmark water management policies dating back to the 1980s has allowed Arizona to bank in underground aquifers FOUR TIMES the amount of water stored in all 19 New York City reservoirs and 3 controlled lakes.
Plus, the heavy Native American population in Page, Arizona, which became the city that was the camp where the workers lived who built the Glen Canyon Dam, will bring up the "way of life" issue.
I would like to remind the good readers of this august venue that Arizona is doing just fine with water conservation. In fact, landmark water management policies dating back to the 1980s has allowed Arizona to bank in underground aquifers FOUR TIMES the amount of water stored in all 19 New York City reservoirs and 3 controlled lakes.
1
In the 1950's I read my Dad's "Field and Stream" and "Sports Afield" magazines from cover to cover. Article after article appeared with the theme of see these great rivers of the west now, before they disappear. Now, in the final decade or so of my life the movement is afoot to free these waters from their captivity. I missed out the first time because I was too young. I'll miss out on the second chance because I'll be too dead.
11
This is the most biased article I have ever read. This guy decrees this from his Ivory tower, basically saying hydroelectric dams are just as evil as an oil power plant. I'm truly angry that environmentalist fear mongers like him can write articles denigrating dams that have saved millions of lives from floods and created the entire agricultural system of California. These dams are the lifeblood of the west, and there is no way I'm ever going to support turning the west back into a giant desert just to make some east coast plutocracy feel smug about "saving" the environment.
2
Jacqueline,
Why do you assume that the writer or anyone who doesn't agree with your position is from the coasts or is some plutocrat who doesn't know anything about the West? Are you implying that everyone in Colorado agrees with you? Yeah, Jacqueline, there are no environmentalists in Colorado.
Why do you assume that the writer or anyone who doesn't agree with your position is from the coasts or is some plutocrat who doesn't know anything about the West? Are you implying that everyone in Colorado agrees with you? Yeah, Jacqueline, there are no environmentalists in Colorado.
1
Thoroughly researched, admirably written, this story echoes not just the legacy of David Brower but the experiences and reporting of John McPhee. His book, "Encounters With the Archdruid," chronicles an encounter between Brower, then head of the Sierra Club, and Floyd Dominy, then director of the Bureau of Reclamation, on a tour of Lake Powell and then on a run through the Grand Canyon on the Colorado River. Dominy grew up in Wyoming, on ranches suffering for lack of water, and McPhee shows the source of his passion for dams. He also shows Brower's enduring legacy, his insight into the need for long-term thinking in our dealings with the environment. He would, I think, celebrate this story and these developments.
9
Perhaps Hayduke lives after all.
9
If the Lake Powell dam has genuinely hit retirement, guess where they're talking about building new ones already?
For a lesson in the evolution of environmental competition, check out the ancient Huari culture of South America. There are pretty stunning evidence of exactly these battles playing out 1500+ years ago.
The scale is different but the movement of control will ultimately look the same.
For a lesson in the evolution of environmental competition, check out the ancient Huari culture of South America. There are pretty stunning evidence of exactly these battles playing out 1500+ years ago.
The scale is different but the movement of control will ultimately look the same.
1
THE BEST BOOK that will acquaint you with the history of the river, the canyons and the damning of the canyons is "The Emerald Mile" by Kevin Fedarko. Fabulous read, and includes the story of the most illustrious and idiosyncratic river rats during a time when the dam was within an inch of failing.
8
I do not understand Mr Lockhead's statement that this would require a revised treaty with Mexico. I get the Upper Basin - Lower basin problem, but what would it have to do with mexico?
1
Geography, dude. Refer to a map: The Colorado River Basin extends into that Mexico place. Not that it reap the benefits at this point.
1
As one of the legal parties through which the Colorado River 'flows', Mexico has legal rights to its water by terms of several international treaties made between it and the US. However, the basic problem which underlies both the international treaties and the compact among US states for use of that water is the allocation of annual quantities based upon a relatively crude and short-term historical record which are far in excess of the longer-term historical yield. As a consequence, the amounts which have consistently been withdrawn upstream from Mexico have resulted in minimal flows, with some years no flow whatsoever and the desertification of the river's estuarine delta with negative impacts to the upper reaches of the Gulf of California's ecosystem.
2
Glen Canyon and its priceless petroglyphs and red rock scenery was forever ruined when the dam was constructed. Emptying Lake Powell will reveal a dead zone of whitewashed sandstone and side canyons filled with silt. It would take a minimum of a hundred years for the stone to return to its normal color and only slightly less for animal life and vegetation to come back. We might as well start now.
27
Reading the article and comments, I wondered how people could think that a drained Lake Powell would reveal a pristine canyonscape looking as though Lake Powell had never existed. I imagine it will be a big stinky silted up mess. As you said, a drained Lake Powell will not be a vacation destination for many years. It's still worth draining Powell and keeping Meade.
Plasma-red? I suppose the writer thought the phrase particularly clever. Alas, though, plasma is the liquid in which red blood cells are suspended, and it's transparent and vaguely yellow when the cells are filtered out - the form in which it's usually used..
2
Somebody from The Rose City ought to know his colors. Then again, this comment is really nitpicking to the max.
4
Maybe the plan didn't work but I have to admit that I like lake Powell. I've always held the view that Dams are more destructive than productive. Even so, because of the shape of the canyons it filled, lake Powell is a quenching sight in the stark canyon desert. It winds and turns and creates secret passages. Its water and rock and nothing else.
I'm sure the river underneath is nice too, so on a purely aesthetic level its no loss either way.
I'm sure the river underneath is nice too, so on a purely aesthetic level its no loss either way.
Try it. With just opening the gates at Glen Canyon no permanent damage is done.
14
rivers have to run. creating an artificial environment is not worth a damn.
nature is wiser than a miller or a water wheel. the upper Baja is a wasteland, so the residents depend on fishing, driving the vaquita, a cetaceous mammal,off the planet. engineering has been a stairway to heaven for much else in the area, whose worth, as power, erases itself by felt consequence. tourism is a poorly-packed parachute, a puddle of air which mimics the obscenity of pooling water in a desert with a drains
open to sky and sand.
nature is wiser than a miller or a water wheel. the upper Baja is a wasteland, so the residents depend on fishing, driving the vaquita, a cetaceous mammal,off the planet. engineering has been a stairway to heaven for much else in the area, whose worth, as power, erases itself by felt consequence. tourism is a poorly-packed parachute, a puddle of air which mimics the obscenity of pooling water in a desert with a drains
open to sky and sand.
5
Interesting there is no mention of the substantial silt build up in Land Mead. How much capacity has been lost to silt? And how does this calculate into this proposed fill mead first solution?
12
Lake Powell has the same problem.
3
Environmentalists are insane. They believe that the world is literally ending. which I think is a pretty arrogant stance to have. The world had existed just fine with sea levels some 200 feet higher than in the past. Global warming will cost humanity a lot of money, but that's about it.
The West needs damns, or those environuts won't get their organic non-GMO kale. You don't like damns, give up all agriculture west of the Rocky Mountains. I'd rather keep my damns and my water, and when the ocean goes up a foot I'll move my house away from the sea.
The West needs damns, or those environuts won't get their organic non-GMO kale. You don't like damns, give up all agriculture west of the Rocky Mountains. I'd rather keep my damns and my water, and when the ocean goes up a foot I'll move my house away from the sea.
6
You really need to read Cadillac Desert. If you already have and this is your stance . . . .
5
Global warming has already buried islands and destroyed habitat, just not your little paradise apparently or in your neighborhood. How selfish to think it's all about your ease at the supermarket. If you are so near the sea as to be able to move you are not near the DAMS - as you cannot spell dams perhaps you need more information.
7
Damn! I think you'll get to keep them.
1
I can't believe this long, detailed article didn't make any mention of a significant impact of draining Lake Powell: the loss of major tourism to the region. Surely the tax dollars from such tourism should be factored into the equation. And in the discussion of Glen Canyon's natural beauty, it should be noted that exploring it by boat is much easier and family-friendly than it would be if the lake were drained—and no less stunning and awe-inspiring. Spending a week on a houseboat exploring the lake's nooks and crannies was one of the most magical and memorable trips I've ever done—and never would have happened with the extended family members I did it with (including six young children) if we all went by foot.
8
How many people can afford a week on a houseboat (which might cost $5-10k)?
The tourist draw for a new Glen Canyon National Park with a free-flowing Colorado River would bring untold millions to the region. Where else on Earth could people experience a never-seen canyon like Glen Canyon??
The tourist draw for a new Glen Canyon National Park with a free-flowing Colorado River would bring untold millions to the region. Where else on Earth could people experience a never-seen canyon like Glen Canyon??
5
Try calculating the ROI on public funds dedicated to tourism industry investments. Private investments as well for that matter. I dare you.
I'm not saying the tourism industry isn't vibrant, worthwhile, and probably a better use of money than most efforts. What I am saying is pegging the value in any meaningful way is nearly impossible. Predictive analysis is even worse. It takes a believer to get a budget past.
Take California for example. They consistently have the largest state tourism budget in the nation which hovers somewhere around $60 million. Florida is a competitive second. The next ten aren't even close.
Ask the dedicated team of professionals in either the California or Florida Tourism Offices what the return on public investment is monetarily. I guarantee they have no solid idea. There is definitely a return. There is no dispute on that matter. However, what that return means in financial terms is inevitably going to be a sales pitch.
In that regard, you are right David: "untold millions". Somebody reaps the windfall but no one can say who or how much exactly.
I'm not saying the tourism industry isn't vibrant, worthwhile, and probably a better use of money than most efforts. What I am saying is pegging the value in any meaningful way is nearly impossible. Predictive analysis is even worse. It takes a believer to get a budget past.
Take California for example. They consistently have the largest state tourism budget in the nation which hovers somewhere around $60 million. Florida is a competitive second. The next ten aren't even close.
Ask the dedicated team of professionals in either the California or Florida Tourism Offices what the return on public investment is monetarily. I guarantee they have no solid idea. There is definitely a return. There is no dispute on that matter. However, what that return means in financial terms is inevitably going to be a sales pitch.
In that regard, you are right David: "untold millions". Somebody reaps the windfall but no one can say who or how much exactly.
Lake Powell not only provides water for millions of people. The lake is also a huge tourist draw. Personally, I'd rather go out in a houseboat than watch some "free spirited rapids." Environuts that live on the coast have no idea that the entire agricultural economy of everything west of the Rocky
Mountains requires dams. Without dams, California would be an empty, dusty outpost like Albuquerque.
Mountains requires dams. Without dams, California would be an empty, dusty outpost like Albuquerque.
6
You mean like it was before it became overpopulated and unsustainable? Seriously using that CA example is a poor argument. "Without dams, California would be an empty, dusty outpost like Albuquerque." I'm ok with that.
5
You need to do your homework. Anyone interested in this topic needs to read Cadillac Desert: The American West and Its Disappearing Water, Revised Edition and Deadbeat Dams: Why We Should Abolish the U.S. Bureau of Reclamation and Tear Down Glen Canyon Dam
8
Hay! I'd much rather watch those "free spirited rapids". But I don't think this is quite the level that this conversation should be carried out on. Isn't the real problem the amount of water that can be got from the whole process? When I read the news today, it says this is the hottest year on records, and there is some thinking that this may really be the current trend. God help our grand children!
5
Edward Abbey is rolling in his grave. Madness.
9
"Rolling in his grave" means disapproval. EA would want the dam opened up.
Recreation at Lake Powell has been a part of Westerners' summer plans for generations. Are these numbers steady?
3
The lake wasn't filled until the mid '70's.. not that many generations. They'll get over it.
2
I recommend Reisner's book "Cadillac Desert" for a great discussion of water in the West.
23
Why not think out of the box. The solution of reducing the Colorado river by one or two dams is narrow minded and unlikely to result in anything but a marginal difference in water management or power generation.
The United States and Mexico should launch a huge joint program to create a new tributary river to the Colorado. They should build a massive desalination plant in the Gulf of California and pipe the water up to Lake Powell. This would be recycling at its best.
If we can process oil from tar sands and pipe it across Canada and the US, we should be able to take another scarce and vital resource, process pure water from salt water and pipe it to where it is needed.
The United States and Mexico should launch a huge joint program to create a new tributary river to the Colorado. They should build a massive desalination plant in the Gulf of California and pipe the water up to Lake Powell. This would be recycling at its best.
If we can process oil from tar sands and pipe it across Canada and the US, we should be able to take another scarce and vital resource, process pure water from salt water and pipe it to where it is needed.
4
Desalination plants are the only long term solution to the problem of water scarcity in the west, but why would you pump the desalinated water from southern California to Lake Powell when the demand for this water is most urgent in Southern California itself, as well as the areas around Phoenix and Las Vega? There is more than enough demand for the water in those areas. The real problem is how much will desalinated water cost? The answer is considerably more than the gasoline you put in your car.
2
Desalinate water and pump it hundreds of miles uphill??
Sounds like a Trumpian solution.
Sounds like a Trumpian solution.
2
Please stay in the box.
"Desalination plants around the world consume more than 200 million kilowatt-hours each day, with energy costs an estimated 55 percent of plants’ total operation and maintenance costs. It takes most reverse osmosis plants about three to 10 kilowatt-hours of energy to produce one cubic meter of freshwater from seawater. Traditional drinking water treatment plants typically use well under 1 kWh per cubic meter."
"Desalination plants around the world consume more than 200 million kilowatt-hours each day, with energy costs an estimated 55 percent of plants’ total operation and maintenance costs. It takes most reverse osmosis plants about three to 10 kilowatt-hours of energy to produce one cubic meter of freshwater from seawater. Traditional drinking water treatment plants typically use well under 1 kWh per cubic meter."
7
It's disheartening to imagine this complex problem in the hands of a Donald Trump presidency.
72
If you favor decommissioning the Glen Canyon dam, just show him where he could put the golf courses.
3
Hillary would blow up all the dams as fast as she could, to make sure the water gets to Mexico. The heck with the millions of American citizens who use the power and the water from the river.
Hayduke Lives!
35
But yet I am sure that the local Chamber of Commerce is espousing the benefits of increased housing starts and bringing new business to the Glen Canyon region to provide the magic elixir of 'growth'.
28
It is ironic that the reservoir created by the Glen Canyon dam is called "Lake Powell" after John Wesley Powell. Powell understood in the 19th century that the southwest could not support massive populations or agriculture. He said "Gentlemen, you are piling up a heritage of conflict and litigation over water rights, for there is not sufficient water to supply the land."(See the Wikipedia article on Powell.) The railroads wanted to promote farming, since they owned vast tracts of land granted to them, and they wanted to cash in. Many quacks supported them, saying that agriculture would improve the climate.
We are now paying the price, as Powell predicted.
We are now paying the price, as Powell predicted.
243
Actually J.W.Powell was as wrong as Reverend Thomas Robert Malthus who predicted catastrophe and populations out stripped agricultural production in the 1700s. Southwestern cities and agriculture thrive today because of the water reclamation such as dams and aqueducts. The problem now is people think the water is never ending and are abusing the resource with planting eastern landscapes creating lake for their housing developments, golf course as lush as Florida, etc. etc. etc. If water was treated as the limited and valuable resource that it is in the southwest many of the problems would go away.
1
You’ve done your homework. Anyone interested in this topic needs to read Cadillac Desert: The American West and Its Disappearing Water, Revised Edition and Deadbeat Dams: Why We Should Abolish the U.S. Bureau of Reclamation and Tear Down Glen Canyon Dam
5
Agriculture does help....the climate....but it will not off set the carbon emissions of cars...look at Mexico City.....Solar ...and the electric car is not just a new technology it should be implemented into law...and all coal burning stopped... and China needs to be given a ultimatum cease and make peace or be punished in a way you will not survive
Make up your minds...
Do you want to have a pristine environment, or do you want to do something about Co2 emissions?
Electricity generated by hydropower, especially that from already-existing dams, is the most carbon-free source for electricity.
I don't see any credible schemes for significantly decreasing electricity consumption. People want their TVs, iPads and computers. No one in the desert Southwest is turning off their air conditioners.
Pick your generation of choice: wind, solar, hydro. Nuclear. All Co2 free, once constructed. Or keep running the coal-burning Navaho Generating Station.
Do you want to have a pristine environment, or do you want to do something about Co2 emissions?
Electricity generated by hydropower, especially that from already-existing dams, is the most carbon-free source for electricity.
I don't see any credible schemes for significantly decreasing electricity consumption. People want their TVs, iPads and computers. No one in the desert Southwest is turning off their air conditioners.
Pick your generation of choice: wind, solar, hydro. Nuclear. All Co2 free, once constructed. Or keep running the coal-burning Navaho Generating Station.
16
Perhaps you didn't read the article: because of the low water levels, the Glen Canyon Dam is no longer a cost-efficient power producer.
11
You have failed to notice that with diminished water supplies, energy is no longer available. This is happening in other parts of the world. With climate change, no longer a theory but a reality, these difficulties will multiply.
9
Conservation is the answer. Dams in the Southwest don't receive enough water anymore to power the hydro turbines (as stated in the article). There is nothing cheap about the power that GCD produces. We taxpayers had to fork over $60 million last year to cover the shortfall because there isn't enough water to run the generators.
4
I agree with Terry Malouf of Boulder, CO. The base problem here (as with so many of the environmental/sociological problems we face today) is overpopulation by humans. Our nearsighted Colorado governor encourages growth because it means more money in the state treasury. After all, our economy is based on a Ponzi scheme: the more people born, the more goods sold. The West is being covered by development where once there were long stretches of semi-arid habitat: a huge sponge that held the water in subterranean channels. That water is being drained (or polluted) by humans building highways, housing developments, golf courses and shopping malls. It will stop, either by intelligent choice and responsible planning or by lack of water.
50
according to the US bureau of the Census, USA population is at or below zero growth now among all groups, white, black, hispanic, and asian. All growth is from immigration. And according to the same source, immigrants also reduce their reproductive rates. Maybe it's not too late!
1
In Ihe lead photo, the bottom of the river bed can be seen. If that is the case then it would appear the Glen Canyon dam no longer serves its purpose. The jump in the last century to large hydro projects might have seemed like engineering nirvana to drive the economy. But at that time, the long-term environmental considerations were not on the horizon. Vast sectors of the population cared not a whit for the fisheries nor the petroglyphs (by the way, after being submerged will they actually still be there or will the 'paint have been swept away?). In those times, solar power was not seen as an alternative and the technology did not exist. The Times, having introduced the topic, would do well to examine the overall effect of hydro dams on the economic and environmental health of the nation. The task is rather urgent, since it is well established that major sections of the US infrastructure is crumbling. Natur marches on whether we like it or not. Anthropogenic thinking rarely works over the long haul.
30
Yes you can see the riverbed but is downstream of the dam.
4
Pretty sure that's the downriver portion in the photo, so, no, it's not all dried up!
7
The photo is of the dam downstream of impoundment.
6
I would like to understand more about losses through evaporation. I am not an expert, but I think that (other factors like temperature and air humidity being equal) evaporation is proportional to the exposed surface of the water. If that is true, a river (large surface, shallow depth) evaporates more water than a reservoir, where the depth of the water increases. I just want to understand whether we lose more water through evaporation from a reservoir than a free-flowing river.
9
Nope, the big factor is that river water is moving (think of it like a moving target is harder to hit). So for example the colder water underneath keeps the temperature of the surface water from getting too high.
But in a reservoir the water is all still, a sitting duck to be baked from top to bottom. I suspect that Lake Powell water is significantly warmer than the river water feeding in.
If the 'system flow' is sufficient (new cold water flowing in and warm water flowing out) the effect can be minimized, but in the case of Lake Powell with the drought that definitely isn't the case.
But in a reservoir the water is all still, a sitting duck to be baked from top to bottom. I suspect that Lake Powell water is significantly warmer than the river water feeding in.
If the 'system flow' is sufficient (new cold water flowing in and warm water flowing out) the effect can be minimized, but in the case of Lake Powell with the drought that definitely isn't the case.
8
Lay on a raft in a reservoir and then shoot the rapids in a canoe and see which sunburn is the worst!
4
There's an Edward Abbey undercurrent to this whole issue that is definitely valid but don't be too eagerly persuaded. I see this as a long-winded water grab.
Advocates want to consolidate the existing water reservoirs from within Utah and Arizona into Nevada. The claim is based on estimates in efficiency gains. I've read enough scientific research to know any report with a pre-formed agenda results in a pre-formed conclusion. A more natural Colorado river would be a good thing. However, trusting western developers to do the right thing is highly suspect.
Just recently, Nevada offered to purchase water rights from Utah but was soundly rebuked. Worth mentioning too, the side-pitch to Californians is down right offensive. Nevada seeks to appropriate Utah and Arizona water and sell it to California. Nevada and California need to manage their own problems before creating a cluster for other, more responsible, states.
Take a hike people.
Advocates want to consolidate the existing water reservoirs from within Utah and Arizona into Nevada. The claim is based on estimates in efficiency gains. I've read enough scientific research to know any report with a pre-formed agenda results in a pre-formed conclusion. A more natural Colorado river would be a good thing. However, trusting western developers to do the right thing is highly suspect.
Just recently, Nevada offered to purchase water rights from Utah but was soundly rebuked. Worth mentioning too, the side-pitch to Californians is down right offensive. Nevada seeks to appropriate Utah and Arizona water and sell it to California. Nevada and California need to manage their own problems before creating a cluster for other, more responsible, states.
Take a hike people.
15
I have never had to live in a part of the country where water is as valuable as i read today. Yet, I think the builders of these dams, with all their good intentions, never considered the challenge to the environment along with the surging population in the country. Would it not make more sense to replace them with solar panels, and let the great rivers of the west set the agenda for the environment??
12
The issue isn't really solar vs hydro. The issue is WATER. The West is arid, always has been always will be. The massive influx of people in the last fifty years is the biggest challenge when thinking about water. Where to get water to support the increase in population, and where to keep it so it is always available is the issue. Dams are the current pariah of the moment with environmentalists with, as usual, no consideration of what to do about the people.
3
Water is scarce in the West. It is the most important of commodities for Westerners. We are most grateful for winter snows and summer thunderstorms. There never is enough water. Without dams we can't irrigate. Dams aren't just for power, that is a added bonus, but are for agriculture. Regrettably, Nevada and California have mismanaged conservation efforts so badly that these states want to take all the water from the other states. For Nevada it is about greed and Las Vegas. Tell the Casinos to conserve water, but don't take it from the ranchers, farmers, and citizens who depend on it for their livelihoods and OUR MEALS. The article is missing the points. It isn't about conservation, the damage is done, but as another comment pointed out, you can't have it both ways. Either you have hydro-electric energy or something else. Yes, Jeff we have solar panel fields, wind farms throughout the West. I wish the State of Utah would figure out that that is the future and not coal and gas. Our leaders are bone heads (Pres. Obama make Bear's Ears a National Monument!!). Regardless, we need water to live. Here in the West, it is barren, desolate, magnificent, but desert. We go months at a time without significant rainfall. We survive because of reservoirs and irrigation.
1
Paul Erich wrote "The Population Bomb" in 1968. We should have paid attention.
85
We did. USA fertile woman reproduction is at or below zero growth. US Bureau of the Census.
2
Paul Ehrlich is the proper spelling.
And Malthus wrote of the problem in the 1700's? So far neither has been correct.
Interesting-- I just read an article about floating solar panels, which are an established technology.
It will not fix the leakage underground, but certainly it reduces evaporation and replaces some or all of the lost electricity generating capacity. The panels operate at higher efficiency than land-based because the water provides cooling, and another benefit is reduction of algal blooms.
Since transmission capacity already exists, why not use it on all of those reservoirs?
It will not fix the leakage underground, but certainly it reduces evaporation and replaces some or all of the lost electricity generating capacity. The panels operate at higher efficiency than land-based because the water provides cooling, and another benefit is reduction of algal blooms.
Since transmission capacity already exists, why not use it on all of those reservoirs?
95
Thank you arty. I just read about the floating Japanese solar panels as well, and thought of it in this context. They would serve a dual purpose, preventing evaporation as well.
2
The dam destroyed one of the most beautiful canyons on the planet, a paradise.
It was pointless when built, and it's pointless now.
It was pointless when built, and it's pointless now.
175
100% agree with David Henry.
1
Hayduke and the rest of the Monkey Wrench Gang would be overjoyed if Glen Canyon dam were decommissioned, although they might fight about whether it would have been more fun to blow it up. Ed Abbey is smiling down on us today, pleased as punch that we are finally having this discussion.
79
We need to examine the future economic and environmental consequences of growing water intensive food crops in the western USA and trucking them to the eastern two-thirds of the country. States like Kentucky have the land and water resources to grow the same crops for a good portion of the year and we should look at other systems to extend the growing season year round. If the Canadians can grow tomatoes hydroponically in the Winter and grocers can ship them here at a profit; there should be a capability to grow them here year round. The entire country needs to be concerned about western water use as we exacerbate the problem by relying unnecessarily on the region for food supply.
273
Yes, that makes sense. The Southeast has the water, and with global warming, even its currently mild winters may go away. Gradually shifting production of fruits and vegetables could be a boon for the impoverished rural areas of that region.
Certainly the East and Midwest could be supplied more economically from the Southeast than from California.
Certainly the East and Midwest could be supplied more economically from the Southeast than from California.
15
Nice plan if you're prepared to lower the sustainable population a bit by starvation.
2
Florida can grow cotton which needs a lot of water. Here in California, we have a bunch of transplants from India growing inferior cotton, too coarse to use for anything other than hopsacking. Not to mention they are draining an already at risk water table. How did that happen? I don't remember, as a sixth generation Californian, voting on that use of water in a chronically drought prone State. I can also say the same about water intensive rice ponds. If money has bought the CA legislature, then they can explain to their grandchildren why we have land sinking in the Central Valley.
6
Imagine what happens when you remove those sources of clean renewable energy.
4
Yes, folks might switch to Solar which is even cheaper and cleaner. Not a bad trade, new rivers and restored ecologies for solar power.
62
At these water levels, these dams are no longer sources of clean renewal power nor are their now nonexistent lakes a source of tourist trade. For more backround on all this read "The Cadilac Desert"
48
OMG the damns of the west are the most ecological way to produce huge amounts of power. Glenn Canyon produces 22,000 gigawatt hours of electricity a year. That's the equivalent of about $30 billion dollars worth of high efficiency solar panels, all of which need to be replaced every decade or so. The dam provides power all day, and can be ramped up or down to meet power needs.
You built one damn and it prevents floods, provides electricity, and provides a steady and efficient amount of water to downstream users. Also, Lake Powell makes millions each year through tourism, and without Lake Powell and Lake Mead I can guarantee all of California wouldn't exist. Floods used to wipe out huge swaths of California each year, but not one of the environuts here seem to realize that the dam daves the lives of millions of people downstream, as well as all their organic crops they are growing for them to eat. They don't care about human beings though. They don't care that we have been manage our water better and better every year. They want to turn the West into a giant solar farm to provide electricity to their tiny homes crammed into New York City. Ridiculous.
You built one damn and it prevents floods, provides electricity, and provides a steady and efficient amount of water to downstream users. Also, Lake Powell makes millions each year through tourism, and without Lake Powell and Lake Mead I can guarantee all of California wouldn't exist. Floods used to wipe out huge swaths of California each year, but not one of the environuts here seem to realize that the dam daves the lives of millions of people downstream, as well as all their organic crops they are growing for them to eat. They don't care about human beings though. They don't care that we have been manage our water better and better every year. They want to turn the West into a giant solar farm to provide electricity to their tiny homes crammed into New York City. Ridiculous.
65
A follow up to this article would be how the drainage of Lake Powell would affect the small towns of the region like Page, which rely heavily on tourism. Will the tourism be the same to the canyons? Most likely, no. It is a hard issue for sure.
3
Page was born of the Glen Canyon Dam, and if Lake Powell would go, Page would be reduced to a shadow of its current self. The population of Page is 7,247. It is not reasonable to inundate 250 square miles of land, and evaporate 179 billion gallons of water each year, in an artificial, socialistic attempt to prop up the economy of Page, Arizona.
This is not a hard issue.
This is not a hard issue.
116
People would come to see Glen Canyon.
95
Have you? If not, then please understand that the area is not ripe for tourism if there is no lake.
But as it is now, the lake is not really useful for tourism anyway.
But as it is now, the lake is not really useful for tourism anyway.
2
The West is built on policies that are no longer sustainable. More and more people are leaving the increasingly conservative parts of the country for a freer life. A new approach is needed to support the growing population. And people needs to learn to adapt to life in a desert.
50
OR do what desert countries in the Mid East are doing. Dubai has the largest Desalination plant in the world producing 3 billion plus gallons a WEEK of fresh water.
Build a half a dozen of those on the West coast and problem solved.
Yes the whiners will complain about cost but ignore the fact we could simply take about 6 months of war money and do it.
San Diego has solved the environmental impact problem.
So what is the problem? The whiners will come up with something to stop it. We cannot move 50 million people back East. Use the abundance of water off our coasts.
Build a half a dozen of those on the West coast and problem solved.
Yes the whiners will complain about cost but ignore the fact we could simply take about 6 months of war money and do it.
San Diego has solved the environmental impact problem.
So what is the problem? The whiners will come up with something to stop it. We cannot move 50 million people back East. Use the abundance of water off our coasts.
2
I realize this article is about water management and policy rather than population trends, but that's at least as important as any wild guesses at how much water is being lost, and thus might be saved, by decommissioning Glen Canyon. In the long run, though, population trumps all other numerical estimates. Why? Because all the other estimates are either constant (evaporation, leakage) or possibly declining (precipitation rates) over time, while population will only continue to grow according to every prediction I've seen. Then what?
I have children, and now two grandchildren, who will inherit the policy decisions we all make today. Anything short of addressing the population growth issue head-on is merely buying time.
I have children, and now two grandchildren, who will inherit the policy decisions we all make today. Anything short of addressing the population growth issue head-on is merely buying time.
150
There are too many people on this planet, beyond the native environment's carrying capacity. The same holds true in many western states, despite decades of mitigation attempts - including dam building to provide water for a thirsty region. Sooner or later the population will exceed the numbers that can live there, particularly in the Southwest. Then what?
In much of the world, out-migration, wars, drought and famine will eventually "address" the overpopulation issue, whether we like it or not. We need to start planning now so that the same issues do not bedevil our descendants. But that would require Americans (and Mexicans) to put aside regional concerns, and politicians at local, state and federal levels to put the country ahead of their careers and constituents. Maybe that'll happen if things get desperate enough, but for now I am not holding my breath.
In much of the world, out-migration, wars, drought and famine will eventually "address" the overpopulation issue, whether we like it or not. We need to start planning now so that the same issues do not bedevil our descendants. But that would require Americans (and Mexicans) to put aside regional concerns, and politicians at local, state and federal levels to put the country ahead of their careers and constituents. Maybe that'll happen if things get desperate enough, but for now I am not holding my breath.
8
I'd love to see population diminish, as the arguments are sensible. But I'm not sure how you change human nature. The Chinese experiment is impossible in less top-down countries, and I hear they're having trouble with it there.
Certainly, empowering women and making birth control readily available and as inexpensive as possible does help. But right now, Republicans have the reins and are busy destroying these female choices as fast as they can, in the name of their so-called religion.
People fall in love and have babies, and the heart always beats the head. Even some of our top environmental scientists and advocates have young children.
It may be foolish, but I don't think coercion will work. Instead, as time increases the hazard, we will have massive die-offs through disease and starvation and war. Sad but true.
Certainly, empowering women and making birth control readily available and as inexpensive as possible does help. But right now, Republicans have the reins and are busy destroying these female choices as fast as they can, in the name of their so-called religion.
People fall in love and have babies, and the heart always beats the head. Even some of our top environmental scientists and advocates have young children.
It may be foolish, but I don't think coercion will work. Instead, as time increases the hazard, we will have massive die-offs through disease and starvation and war. Sad but true.
8
I grew up in a country where, if you need a job and there are not any locally, then you move to where there are jobs. Funny how the same willingness to move doesn't apply to natural resources.
But it does! My family comes from the Pacific Northwest, many of them were loggers. When cutting happened faster than the trees could grow, mills eventually closed and a number of my extended family had to find other ways to make a living and many left for California (ironically).
Population growth in the west has been engineered - it is not at all inevitable! If there is not enough water in Colorado or Arizona, then businesses need to stop leaving other states with plenty of water. Soon enough we won't have any choice and then will have to face the stark reality of water being a much more limited resource in the west than conservatives want to admit. ("conservative" is also an ironic label for those opposing natural resources conservation, isn't it?)
But it does! My family comes from the Pacific Northwest, many of them were loggers. When cutting happened faster than the trees could grow, mills eventually closed and a number of my extended family had to find other ways to make a living and many left for California (ironically).
Population growth in the west has been engineered - it is not at all inevitable! If there is not enough water in Colorado or Arizona, then businesses need to stop leaving other states with plenty of water. Soon enough we won't have any choice and then will have to face the stark reality of water being a much more limited resource in the west than conservatives want to admit. ("conservative" is also an ironic label for those opposing natural resources conservation, isn't it?)
8
I wonder how many people who depend on the Colorado river for water don't believe in climate change. Madness.
220
It is indeed madness, but it's not a matter of believing or not. It's difference between accepting FACTS and denying them. Science isn't about beliefs, it's about knowing.
5
We in the western states have got to come to grips with the facts of living in an arid environment, one that is increasingly so with climate change. Snowpacks are decreasing; here in a ski town in Utah, snowfall has been below the fifty year average for years. Utahans use much more than their fair share of water, with too many grass lawns in the valleys below the Wasatch Mountains and refusal by the authorities in the metro district of Salt Lake City and Summit County (Park City) to implement really serious efforts to limit consumption. I was amazed a couple of years ago to be told by a manager of the Salt Lake City water system that she disagreed with me that we needed to start reclaiming and reusing water. I asserted we did, she asked me why I thought so, and I said that is was obvious that we would run out of water with dwindling supplies and an urban population predicted to double in a couple decades. She replied, "we have plenty of water." Part of the problem is just attitudes that border on the absurd, but part of it is misaligned incentives. Water departments sell water and finance their operations (including salaries I suppose), and water for agriculture and domestic use is priced too cheaply.
347
They use "reuse" water in SLC for irrigation when they pump from the Jordan River in many areas.
As you note, municipal water systems are in a bind. While the need to use less water is manifestly clear, water companies sell water to consumers and finance their operations and pay off bonds, etc. If they sell less water, the rates must go up; in most places that is an unpopular option. (Electrical utilities have the same problem with residential solar, but that's another story.)
Santa Fe, NM has among the highest water rates in the country. As a result, per capita daily consumption is about 95 gallons. Do you know that number for your community?
Santa Fe, NM has among the highest water rates in the country. As a result, per capita daily consumption is about 95 gallons. Do you know that number for your community?
1
Utah (I used to live there) epitomizes what's wrong with America. It has huge home grown population as well as a swelling immigrant population. No amount of water saving technology, changes in behaviour or anything else is going to do anything but slow down the train going over the cliff except the one thing, no one can speak of- fewer humans. The population of this country has doubled in my lifetime. It is set to double again by the end of the century. The size of the country, its resources, virtually everything this ant pile of humans will need, will not be doubling. This should be telling us something, yet no one on the national scene can even mention the basic incompatibility of our numbers with long term reality. No one who will be alive in the future will thank us for not facing up to the facts. What we are doing and how we are living is absolutely incompatible with long term sustainability.
So easy to write about this issue without touching on the wars for the existing/saved water! Many many years ago I read about the water wars in one of Bill Bradley's books and his experience working in Congress on water rights and issues. It was fascinating and distressing. I imagine the story is even more compelling today!
27
I do not have the technical knowledge to evaluate this proposal. But it is obvious that we are talking about the viability of the entire Southwest. This is like talking about industry in the Northeast or farming in the Midwest. The stakes are huge. Give me 100 academic studies. An op-Ed is a cavalier way to discuss the future of tens of millions of Americans.
9
This piece is anything but "cavalier." A serious op-ed like this one is a good way to bring the problems with the Colorado River dams into the light and start a better discussion on how to solve them.
49
If there are 100 studies, and 97 agree the river should flow, opponents would point at the 3 opposing studies and say "The science is unsettled" and fight for the status quo and do nothing.
14
This is a dam policy issue that incidentally affects 75 million people strikes me as mistaken priorities.
Any geography has a natural limit to hydropower. Past that limit, building more dams won't increase power or water. As another example, Italy completed dams on nearly its whole capacity before WW2.
This article really means we have tried to dam more water than we have. It makes perfect sense to run one dam well rather than two poorly, for the same water and power capacity.
We had more water before. Climate change wiped it out. Glen Canyon Dam made sense in the 1960's. Things changed. The right answer changed with them.
It would be great to go back to having more water in the Colorado River system, more water in the West. A dam can't make that happen. It is a much larger question.
We need to get to that question too. But for the dams now, one good one is better than two bad ones.
This article really means we have tried to dam more water than we have. It makes perfect sense to run one dam well rather than two poorly, for the same water and power capacity.
We had more water before. Climate change wiped it out. Glen Canyon Dam made sense in the 1960's. Things changed. The right answer changed with them.
It would be great to go back to having more water in the Colorado River system, more water in the West. A dam can't make that happen. It is a much larger question.
We need to get to that question too. But for the dams now, one good one is better than two bad ones.
347
The idea of draining Powell and filling Meade has merit on many fronts. I'd also suggest that growers in southern California be made to pay market rates for their irrigation, which would probably mean they'd go for desalinization and leave their current lion's share of the Colorado to those who have better claims on it.
Another article in today's NYT details the many advantages of floating solar arrays, which in this case would yield maximum returns on preventing evaporation and taking advantage of the most abundant source of renewable energy anywhere in the country. It's a 100% win-win scenario for this area. It's so simple and elegant, no wonder nobody's mentioned it yet. The only potential hiccup might be the constant pressure to mine uranium near the river, though so far we've managed to contain that. Given the range wars that will result form any attempt to accomplish all this, I'd also suggest we erect wind turbines to capture some of that high volume hot air as it blows from one state to another. To insure the success of this project we need President Obama to come out against it and promise to spend federal money to prevent it. This will coagulate all the major players in the area in opposition to him and guarantee it's completion.
Another article in today's NYT details the many advantages of floating solar arrays, which in this case would yield maximum returns on preventing evaporation and taking advantage of the most abundant source of renewable energy anywhere in the country. It's a 100% win-win scenario for this area. It's so simple and elegant, no wonder nobody's mentioned it yet. The only potential hiccup might be the constant pressure to mine uranium near the river, though so far we've managed to contain that. Given the range wars that will result form any attempt to accomplish all this, I'd also suggest we erect wind turbines to capture some of that high volume hot air as it blows from one state to another. To insure the success of this project we need President Obama to come out against it and promise to spend federal money to prevent it. This will coagulate all the major players in the area in opposition to him and guarantee it's completion.
5
This seems to make much more sense than destroying all or any of these well-built concrete dams. JGAIA-
Jerry Gropp -- Decommissioning a damn is not the same as "destroying" it. If the water somehow came back, the huge concrete dam would still be there to be put back into commission. It won't fall down, and we probably couldn't tear it down if we tried, like some of the old Army coastal forts.
2