The Religious Right's thirty-year reign has served to tarnish the name of Christianity and to turn people away from a faith which has a calling to reach out to all with with love of Jesus. The press' habit of frequently failing to differentiate between the Religious Right and Main Line Protestant Denominations has resulted in people thinking that all Christians are as intolerant as the RR. In addition, the GOP's habit of rolling out the abortion argument every four years to energize its RR base was/is despicable at best and makes a mockery of our democracy's political campaign system. Its habitual criticizing the morals of other candidates is nothing more than the pot calling the kettle black and should have stopped long ago. One can only hope and pray the RR's power is declining and that the GOP's pandering to it will stop as well.
63
I would be interested in hearing how a religion-based morality can be reconciled with support of Trump. Could someone here plow through that exercise?
33
East-coast elitists have no concept of the typical Trump voter because they have never met such a person. Fox News has drilled falsehoods into frequent viewers so that they are anti-government to the point that no logic will convince otherwise. They are small farmers or small businessmen who are very independent and will fight to maintain that independence. They see abuse of government programs within their own community and have liberal elitists trying to govern their most intimate behavior. They choose Trump because he says out loud what they feel inside.
8
This essay gives Trump way too much credit for actually having some sort of strategy. As if his blathering and babbling having anything to do with him thinking, understanding and having realizations, rather than simply being an expression of his enormous ego.
38
It's probably just the beginning. Separation of Church and State is eventually going to have to go bye-bye to avoid offending incoming Muslims, and their views on such things are far more conservative than the Religious Right. Conservative Christians don't want gays to get married, Conservative Muslims don't want them to breathe in and out. And it's not just those few who are terrorists who feel that way.
12
The "Religious Right" has failed because its members embrace a race-based Christian identity, are simplistic, two-dimensional thinkers and many are rabid opportunists(think Falwell, jr. as a prime example). Finally, they're just beginning to awaken to the fact that god and mammon may not mix well.
19
How I wish that right-wing evangelicals could realize how many young people they daily drive away from religion by their fear-filled, often hateful denigration of the very people who might turn to Christianity if its name was not so blackened by bigotry and anti-science zealotry.
33
I'm a northeastern liberal. I wouldn't give much credence to the rise of Trump signaling the end of the religious right; he's an anomaly and doesn't represent a trend in the Republican Party. I have relatives in North Carolina who know firsthand that the religious right is even more committed now than ever before to enforce their will politically. They're not going away in this generation; it'll take another generation or two for them to fade away as a political bloc, if they do.
15
I hear things like this from time to time. The answer is I seriously doubt it. Just like 96 wasn't the end of the Democratic party, 2008 wasn't the end of the Republican party, and maybe the more idiotic prediction of them all, "Cell phones and tablets will completely replace PC's" ... Just stop the nonsense.
4
The Religious Right is neither religious nor right. I don't know what religion they practice but it certainly wouldn't be recognized by Jesus. Intolerance, hatred and dismissal of those among us who are poor or weak have never been Christian values.
53
The religious right was going to face a reckoning and wasn't just Trump. Young evangelicals are more and more concerned with social justice issues and environmental concerns. It's not so easy anymore for the Republicans to choose a wedge issue like abortion or gay marriage to shore up their "party of family values" credibility. To many young people don't believe the Democrats are evil because they want health care for everyone, a strong social safety net and higher taxes on the rich. Many of them live in a more multi-cultural, multi-dimensional world, and don't want to practice a politics of condemnation and judgement, while poor children go hungry. Mr. Trump just hurried the process along.
21
I think the Christian Right is in trouble as a national political movement because their effective numbers i.e. the number of Americans who will vote explicitly with respect to the religious right agenda is seriously on the decline. I don't know what the current numbers are, but I would guess most self identified Christian conservatives are decidedly not committed to a national political agenda. The explosive growth of secularism among people under the age of 40, the rise of so many other movements including those representing racial minorities, LGBT, the Green movement, libertarianism, all reflect the comparative diminution of traditional white religious conservatives as a coherent voting bloc especially in national elections.
Donald Trump has stolen the religious right in the Republican Party, making his idiosyncratic anti-establishment ideology or shtick the order of the day.
The Christian right, with its espousal of deeply anti-modernist sentiments looks like it is permanently on the wrong side of history.
Donald Trump has stolen the religious right in the Republican Party, making his idiosyncratic anti-establishment ideology or shtick the order of the day.
The Christian right, with its espousal of deeply anti-modernist sentiments looks like it is permanently on the wrong side of history.
15
"Is This the End of the Religious Right?"
The short answer is, "No."
Trump's rise is an anomaly. Religious conservatives still control government posts from governorships on downward to school boards, all across the country. And they will continue to do so as long as religious conservatives continue voting as a majority in their areas.
The religious conservative threat will only be ended once a large majority of children across the South and some Midwestern states get a sound education in science and the humanities, free from the insidious religious propaganda of the far right.
The short answer is, "No."
Trump's rise is an anomaly. Religious conservatives still control government posts from governorships on downward to school boards, all across the country. And they will continue to do so as long as religious conservatives continue voting as a majority in their areas.
The religious conservative threat will only be ended once a large majority of children across the South and some Midwestern states get a sound education in science and the humanities, free from the insidious religious propaganda of the far right.
38
Is it not possible that the "religious right" is nothing more than a bunch of nativists bent on maintaining the old status quo? Thinking back to the Reagan years it sure seems that way to me.
24
Donald Trump is Affirmative Action for White people. It took me a while to figure that out, because I was totally incredulous about that reality. Back when the New Deal was first passed by FDR in the 1930s, the legislation was hijacked by Southern Dixiecrats. The code phrase back in that time was "local control" of federal dollars. With the Jim Crow laws, minorities were systematically excluded from public money. That exacerbated the chasm between the wealth of minorities and whites.
When Democrats passed the Equal Rights legislation of the 1960s, this soured White Americans to the Democratic party because that would end affirmative action for whites. They have been in a tale spin ever since. Now Trump has arrived, and happy days will be here again, for them only. Now, the religious right is losing their partners of disaffected Whites in the Republican party. This will spell certain chaos if Trump loses the general election.
When Democrats passed the Equal Rights legislation of the 1960s, this soured White Americans to the Democratic party because that would end affirmative action for whites. They have been in a tale spin ever since. Now Trump has arrived, and happy days will be here again, for them only. Now, the religious right is losing their partners of disaffected Whites in the Republican party. This will spell certain chaos if Trump loses the general election.
19
Well, I am going with my church (it is a conservative mainline Protestant church) to listen to Rev. Franklin Graham next week. I realize that Ms. Posner is opposed to conservative Christianity. She is certainly the wrong messenger to be delivering this message. It reads more about her hopes than about actual facts. And no, I will not be voting for either Mr. Trump or Mrs. Clinton. I am opposed to Mr. Trump and Mrs. Clinton is much like him; both apparently have no morality, honesty, decency, integrity, or sense of shame. New York values are not American values.
2
The Pope prefers Bernie Sanders. Enough said.
16
Where there is a fever and misogyny and deep sexual hatred in whatever the form it will draw large numbers of people to it.
15
The main thing to learn from this phenomenon is what so many formerly religious people already know: religion is rife with hypocrisy.
Also, regarding "prosperity theology", it's interesting that Trump has not done well in a region that has no qualm with that particular doctrine - Utah.
Also, regarding "prosperity theology", it's interesting that Trump has not done well in a region that has no qualm with that particular doctrine - Utah.
16
Merely asking the question is a gross demonstration of the almost total lack of understanding Posner has of what she calls the religious right.
A conservative columnist might parallel her by titling a piece - Is This the End of Liberals Without Morals?
A conservative columnist might parallel her by titling a piece - Is This the End of Liberals Without Morals?
1
A church stands strongest when it shelters the poor and protects the weak. A church that stands with a political party, especially one that by most account dwells on animus against "them", is not a church in any real sense of the word. It's just another social club.
11
'Not sure about the "religious right" as opposed to the Republicans. But all I know is the next time a Republican starts lecturing someone about 'family values' or 'decency' as they have never tired of doing, all that will be necessary is a one-word rejoinder: Trump. Of course there are many individual Republicans that could be offered up (Livingston, Gingrich, Hastert, etc.), but not the nominee of the party itself.
3
The problem with Ms. Posner's perspective is that she has taken these Americans at their word as they describe themselves as Christians.
I promise you that, to them, they are Southerners first/ Conservatives first/white people first.
Forgetta'bout that they also choose to call themselves Christians for purely cultural reasons.
I promise you that, to them, they are Southerners first/ Conservatives first/white people first.
Forgetta'bout that they also choose to call themselves Christians for purely cultural reasons.
11
"May you live in interesting times," a wise Chinaman said.
Such as in a time when vast moral capital is expended on welcoming any and all to use the bathroom of their choice, while reviling those who live by Biblical teachings. When Atheism is everywhere ascendant, who can feign surprise that over 1/2 million young Americans are dead from AIDS, 35 years after the disease's etiology was established? "Present mirth hath present laughter," as the Earl of Oxford wrote.
Such as in a time when vast moral capital is expended on welcoming any and all to use the bathroom of their choice, while reviling those who live by Biblical teachings. When Atheism is everywhere ascendant, who can feign surprise that over 1/2 million young Americans are dead from AIDS, 35 years after the disease's etiology was established? "Present mirth hath present laughter," as the Earl of Oxford wrote.
1
I'm glad the Religious Right is getting a trouncing. It's about time. I don't want to live by their laws, their ancient book. I have homsexuals friends I love and find kinder than any Christian I know, who seems bent on telling me I'm going to spend eternity in hellfire. I work with the poor, and want to see them able to plan their families, or abort the unwanted, because I can't afford to adopt all the children that are unwanted, much as I might like too. I want to see a society based on civil law that is fair to all, not based on what some tribes considered taboo for their survival. Politicians have used the Religious Right for their own good, making abortion the issue and forgoing the good of the country for their own greed and good. This government seems based on hypocrisy, starting early with slavery, and our civil laws are trying to right those A book that would burn Galileo for his knowledge, a society that would determine what book I can read, tell me how I can use my body, enter my bedroom, etc. is not the society I want to follow or respect. Halleluyah and fates be praised for finally breaking the power and showing the hypocrisy of this dangerous alliance of politicians and religion. They feel persecuted, Merry Christmas is denied them, they think, but have no conscience about denying women their rights, or others, not like them, their rights. I'm told how to care for my slave in Levitticus, but...oh well, I could go on forever, but...
16
The END? No, the end of the democrats and republicans has been announced over and over, but the tide always goes back in the other direction.
2
Part of the practice of Christianity and most other religions is believing otherwise unbelievable things, based on "faith" alone. Once you profess a rejection of common sense as a virtue, you can pretty much go anywhere you want, the sky is the limit. I don't see the fact that Trump says nasty things and has lived a life at odds with some particular preacher's interpretation of the Bible would slow down unhappy conservatives from embracing the ideas of a 21st Century feel-good con-man.
3
Perhaps what this demonstrates (and I'm just spitballing here), is that the deeply religious are really attracted to/swayed by nothing more that unapologetic confidence?
1
Regardless of one's views, we can all agree that an article entitled "Is This the End of the Religious Right?" is serious click-bait for the readership of the NYT. So I succumbed.
I agree that the Religious Right (double entendre) is pretty unappealing. But rather than rant against them, liberals should count their lucky stars that the Republican Party hitched its wagon to this group. For the sake of electing liberal presidents and realigning the Supreme Court, lets hope that the Republican Party remains linked to the Religious Right.
Eventually a similar situation will evolve about gun control, a cause that is also polarizing, illogical, and poised to test the Republican leadership about what they really stand for.
I agree that the Religious Right (double entendre) is pretty unappealing. But rather than rant against them, liberals should count their lucky stars that the Republican Party hitched its wagon to this group. For the sake of electing liberal presidents and realigning the Supreme Court, lets hope that the Republican Party remains linked to the Religious Right.
Eventually a similar situation will evolve about gun control, a cause that is also polarizing, illogical, and poised to test the Republican leadership about what they really stand for.
3
This is the one good aspect of Trump's candidacy.
8
The game is pretty much over. It's the 4th quarter with 2 minutes on the board and the score is -
Mammon - 35
Jesus - 10
Mammon - 35
Jesus - 10
5
Of course it's not the end of the Religious Right. But does it mean that their voting power - loudly proclaimed by Jerry Falwell lo those many years ago - has been eclipsed? I think the answer is a resounding yes! Unfortunately, the poobahs of the Republican Party, folks like Paul Ryan, have yet to acknowledge that. Voters in the Republican primaries are not buying what they are selling - as delivered by Cruz, Rubio, Bush et al.
4
Well, we can always hope they will fade into history, but I doubt it. Cruz garnered millions of votes from evangelicals - and he'll be back in 4 years. These religious fanatics remain the greatest threat to our freedom today, because they are using the Bible, specifically Genesis 1:28 to justify their crusade for "dominion" over the rest of us. They believe "we the people" are incapable of self government and need god's guidance through their - and only their - leaders chosen by God, as Cruz's father claimed Ted was. It's a blueprint for dictatorship. They are claiming the divine right of kings, and the land of the free is anathema to these theocrats.
8
This election has nothing to do with religion. The media still doesn't get it.
3
Ronald Reagan fundamentally misquoted the Puritan founder of Boston, John Winthrop, who never used the word "shining" in describing New England as "a city upon a hill." What Winthrop actually preached aboard the Arbella in 1630 was a call to mercy and Christian charity and a humble warning that all eyes of the world would be watching if we fall: "We shall be as a City upon a Hill, the eyes of all people are upon us; so that if we shall deal falsely with our God in this work we have undertaken and so cause Him to withdraw His present help from us, we shall be made a story and a byword through the world, we shall open the mouths of enemies to speak evil of the ways of God and all professors for God's sake; we shall shame the faces of many of God's worthy servants, and cause their prayers to be turned into Curses upon us 'till we be consumed out of the good land whither we are going." Rather than look to Winthrop to justify boastful pride, we would do better to remember his humility.
5
Religion is here to stay. There has never been a human culture without some form of religion, so much so that anthropologists consider it one of the true human universals, along with language, storytelling, and the incest taboo. However, just as there are good and bad stories, there are good and bad religions. Good religions inspire art and philosophy, promote social cohesion, and give an outlet to spiritual longings. Bad religions inspire warfare, generate repression, and stifle free inquiry. Every actual religion is a mixture of good and bad elements but at any given moment, a particular aspect may predominate. Evangelical Christianity in the US today has devolved into a narrow-minded puritanical cult, which is taking its last stand in public restrooms and registrar offices. This is almost as sad as the devolution of Islam from Sufism to Daesh. But it is in everybody's interests that Christianity found its way back to philosophy and ethics instead of obsessing about transgender people using wrong toilets. If Trump helps this process along by severing the connection between religion and politics, he'll have done God's work (I mean it metaphorically, since I'm an atheist but I can appreciate a good metaphor without believing it to be literally true).
14
It will be a shame should there be an end of the religious right as we will no longer be able to point to group of people and say there are the dumb ones. Safe to say that no prominent scientists, engineers, coders, or professors align with the religious right.
6
The religious Right like most conservatives in this country have organized from the bottom up, their focus on local issues and organizing as a way to build a solid base, vet candidates, and develope power moving up the food chain, in contradistinction to liberals whose interests and organizing tend to be from the top down, a remnant of the '60s and '70s, when anti-imperialist and identity politics took sway from the Left's former focus on issues concerning workers.
While Trump clearly is not of the religious Right, his candidacy, even his unlikely victory, would not seriously dent the activities of those for whom religious cultural issues are primary. They take the long view, know how to hunker down, continue to organize locally, and stay primed to reassert themselves on the national stage. The state legislatures which, after the 2020 census, will again get to gerrymander districts, will become the focus of the Right and should be the focus of the Left, though that would take a huge reorientation on its part.
While Trump clearly is not of the religious Right, his candidacy, even his unlikely victory, would not seriously dent the activities of those for whom religious cultural issues are primary. They take the long view, know how to hunker down, continue to organize locally, and stay primed to reassert themselves on the national stage. The state legislatures which, after the 2020 census, will again get to gerrymander districts, will become the focus of the Right and should be the focus of the Left, though that would take a huge reorientation on its part.
10
I would like to remind all my follow Christians something simple but lost. Jesus did not come to create governments. He doesn't want a "Christian Nation." This was never a "Christian Nation" as it was built on exploitation, slavery, etc.
Jesus came to save souls not states. Stop with the politics and seek to emulate Jesus and share the good news.
Jesus came to save souls not states. Stop with the politics and seek to emulate Jesus and share the good news.
36
The problem has been the Religious Rights's problem with democracy.
Democracy is not an exercise in fundamentalism and right wing theocracy is always upset that their way or the highway is not the Law of the Land. It has not worked out.
They should do what they do best- charitable acts is one very positive thing- and leave American politics out of the plan.
Democracy is not an exercise in fundamentalism and right wing theocracy is always upset that their way or the highway is not the Law of the Land. It has not worked out.
They should do what they do best- charitable acts is one very positive thing- and leave American politics out of the plan.
21
Donald Trump is a highly divisive force. The entire Republican party is fracturing over his candidacy, no more or less so than the religious right faction within the party. This is temporary, for the 2016 elections. The Republican party will not disappear, nor with the religious right.
What will likely happen is becoming clearer. Republicans who cannot support Trump will not disavow the party but they will focus their energies and their political donations on congressional and state elections, some may vote for Clinton. Trump will have tepid support from his party, he will pick up some democrat voters, his campaign will be a ridiculous embarrassment, he will lose big.
What will likely happen is becoming clearer. Republicans who cannot support Trump will not disavow the party but they will focus their energies and their political donations on congressional and state elections, some may vote for Clinton. Trump will have tepid support from his party, he will pick up some democrat voters, his campaign will be a ridiculous embarrassment, he will lose big.
1
The cynicism with which "religion" has been used to incent certain groups to vote belies religion's own values. And then there's the hypocrisy of the "religious". While some religion may be sincere, so much of it is false, hateful, decisive, misinformed and very misleading. Enough with special privileges to religion. Here's hoping there is an end to the "religious" right, though I doubt it. James Madison was right and so is our constitution.
4
Like any fool, Trump speaks some embarrassing truth and gets away with it (just like he gets away with his lies). It's easier for voters to be patriotic and white with the standard-issue racist-sexist slant than to be devout Christians, so that lets them off the hook, like buying a house with no down payment from a con man. Don the Con is successful because he's a charismatic salesman, more seductive than the sanctimonious priest-of-the-Inquisition Cruz. It's a morality play that is freaking out some evangelicals, while fooling the rest.
2
Trump has modified the Republican Party in many ways. And I am no fan of his. But, the trend away from every Republican being so religious is a bit of a relief.
5
The overreach that is the verkochte (trumped-up...before Trump was a gleam in his father's eye) concept of "religious liberty," may prove the last straw. In a religion that bills itself as "God is love" and often just gives lip service to Jesus's sole commandment ("love one another") now is accurately seen as stooping to hate of "the other" to gain temporal power.
That's not religion, it's a con.
What goes around, comes around.
That's not religion, it's a con.
What goes around, comes around.
7
If there is to be a "salvation" of the republican party it must come by total devoiding its ranks of the religious social warriors.
5
How would this be possible when they are empowered by the First Amendment and are constantly asking government to enforce their tenets?
1
Cultural Christianity (Religious Right) and Biblical Christianity are two different things. The former is passing away. The later will remain forever. The former is confusing and unneeded. The later is clear and very much needed.
5
Is this the end of the Religious Right? Unfortunately, no. But it can't happen soon enough.
7
We can hope that they are finished, because the Rapture-Republicans would have us turn into Turkey- a nation of the verge of ruin by a theocratic regime. Their "liberties" are violated when they can't impose their rules on others? Don't they get tax exemptions? Aren't they allowed to harass coworkers with "witnessing?"
6
The decline and fall of the religious right in the USA reminds me of Gore Vida's quote when confronted abroad by foreigners who asked what kind of country are we: "We are a very primitive country, the United States, and it's full of superstitions, which come out of a very fundamental religious bias, which is primitive Christianity. And since they have enough votes to terrify the more sophisticated people who run the country, these are some of the bones that they get thrown - like prayer in the schools and abortion and all subjects which have nothing to do with the federal government, but they see to it that it does. No, no, we're kind of a joke."
8
Oh please, please let this be true. The religious wrong has never been right.
If someone is overly religious today it's best to keep it under their hat.
This includes ALL religions.
If someone is overly religious today it's best to keep it under their hat.
This includes ALL religions.
3
This election cycle I have been particularly vocal against Ted Cruz. Not only because of his politics, but a certain kind of hate I thought was over with. I'm more bothered by the fact that it's still very much alive, mostly in the area he calls home. I'm angry these evangelical voters, who largely have no money, no education, too many kids, and our living off taxes I pay for as a working GLBT community member who doesn't have kids, is educated, obeys the law, doesn't live off of welfare and SSI; think they have to tolerate me. What about my tolerating them? I'm the one paying for their kids, their beer and chips, their Wal-Mart clothes , etc...they use this Christian nonsense as some sort of excuse for living in the middle of nowhere and never having to try getting a job, or being single, or daring to get an education and keep an open mind.
If this is the end of the religious right, I am thrilled. It couldn't happen to a more deserving group of people who have worked overtime at making lives like mine confusing and unnecessarily difficult through the years.
If this is the end of the religious right, I am thrilled. It couldn't happen to a more deserving group of people who have worked overtime at making lives like mine confusing and unnecessarily difficult through the years.
7
Donny Swaggart, the preacher son of the infamous Jimmy Swaggart, struts and sweats across his stage and angrily proclaims to his TV millions worldwide, "No homosexual will ever be welcome in this church!"
No, these guys don't need Donald Trump to make them look hateful. They're doing well enough on their own. And getting tax breaks to boot!
No, these guys don't need Donald Trump to make them look hateful. They're doing well enough on their own. And getting tax breaks to boot!
8
Modern religion is a business and it is no coincidence that those "wonderful" evangelicals have been supporting the GOP.
But even some of the rabbis have been trying to figure out a way to horn in on the modern (legal) pot industry.(If they can't actually create kosher weed, they can concentrate on its auxiliaries.
In Christianity, a priest with a real conscience like the late Daniel Berrigan is a rarity. He and others like him are generally considered "troublemakers"!
I certainly hope this is the end of the religious right but would that also mean the end of the GOP?
To that I would I would also respond with a hearty "Amen"!
But even some of the rabbis have been trying to figure out a way to horn in on the modern (legal) pot industry.(If they can't actually create kosher weed, they can concentrate on its auxiliaries.
In Christianity, a priest with a real conscience like the late Daniel Berrigan is a rarity. He and others like him are generally considered "troublemakers"!
I certainly hope this is the end of the religious right but would that also mean the end of the GOP?
To that I would I would also respond with a hearty "Amen"!
8
Ever notice that gay marriage, equal rights legislation and now the deceitful and unconstitutional "bathroom bills" seem to pop up around national election cycles? Why do you think that is??
5
Nothing has changed, but voting is never a clear-cut moral choice, and no one subjects his morality or faith to a majority vote.
1
One look at the photo accompanying this article (about the CPAC opening with a prayer) should be enough to tell you the problem the Religious Right have - they are all old! Give them a decade or 2, and the Religious Right won't exist anymore because all the members will be dead and the youth of today have no interest in joining their organization. These people are stuck in their old ways, and nothing is going to change that.
3
Ah, the loonies are everywhere, and they always seek to insinuate their beliefs into everyone else's - regardless of what others might think or believe.
Such lunacy, disrespect, and out and out arrogance.
Nuts to them.
Such lunacy, disrespect, and out and out arrogance.
Nuts to them.
4
This presumed extreme religiosity of evangelical voters is not their problem; their problem is lack of education.
Yes, I fully acknowledge that the statement above serves only to incite anger among those who deem themselves educated enough in rural, evangelical towns, but hear me out for the following four sentences.
What if listening to a narrow interpretation of the Bible, Christian children across the United States were told to read and discuss Voltaire and Plato? Then perhaps let them read the Bible themselves, acknowledging first that it is a group of separate texts compiled by a patriarchal society largely different from our own that just maybe did not gather every text that God has inspired (notice how I do not refute the existence of God).
Lastly, since we are on a mission to civilize and challenge currently unchallenged notions in our society, let the kids read Marx and find the flaws in his arguments themselves. However, at this point they might find wisdom in what he says about a certain "opiate of the masses."
Yes, I fully acknowledge that the statement above serves only to incite anger among those who deem themselves educated enough in rural, evangelical towns, but hear me out for the following four sentences.
What if listening to a narrow interpretation of the Bible, Christian children across the United States were told to read and discuss Voltaire and Plato? Then perhaps let them read the Bible themselves, acknowledging first that it is a group of separate texts compiled by a patriarchal society largely different from our own that just maybe did not gather every text that God has inspired (notice how I do not refute the existence of God).
Lastly, since we are on a mission to civilize and challenge currently unchallenged notions in our society, let the kids read Marx and find the flaws in his arguments themselves. However, at this point they might find wisdom in what he says about a certain "opiate of the masses."
5
What I dislike perhaps most of all about the organised religions is their public display of religiosity. Those who pray on street corners ...
5
Religious belief, at least the Christian faith in America, is about the fear of death and suffering. Trump offers to alleviate some of that fear by making America great again, which in turn will make God's blessings flow all the more onto its citizens.
But seriously, we have to spend upwards of a trillion dollars a year to keep our military running all over the planet, lest God decide that he's not gonna pertekt us anymore. Still afraid? Then let's spend even more money for weapons systems, and let the military trash the environment for security's sake. Gotta be safe.
But seriously, we have to spend upwards of a trillion dollars a year to keep our military running all over the planet, lest God decide that he's not gonna pertekt us anymore. Still afraid? Then let's spend even more money for weapons systems, and let the military trash the environment for security's sake. Gotta be safe.
3
The vitriol and contempt for the religious right expressed in these NYT comments equals in volume and intensity so much of what passes for discussion on the stereotyped right wing radio programs. That is both depressing and hypocritical.
If the Religious Right would simply send its Sons and Daughters to liberal religious enclaves, very welcoming to homosexuals and pro-aborters, such as Notre Dame, Georgetown, U of San Francisco, U of San Diego, U of Santa Clara, it would ease the Protestant acolytes' transition to anything-goes Liberal society. Heck, the president of Student Government at Jesuit nirvana, Georgetown U., was a homosexual activist. William Peter Blatty, famous Hoya alum, led a petition drive for the Vatican to revoke Georgetown's Catholic affiliations. Send the Fundamentalists there for a proper mix of Faith and Sex.
1
Trump's support will apparently mean that a camel has squeezed through the eye of a needle -- or that white Evangelicals are total phonies who drive people *away* from Jesus.
It's the latter.
It's the latter.
3
The end of one non-constructive agenda to the beginning of another. Incoherent and irrationally resistant to any social progress, the Republican Party remains useless.
8
When religion doesn't evolve it starts to erode. instead of being a saving grace , it becomes intolerant & destructive.People like Hobby Lobby used religion to express their bigotry, so to was that clerk that refused to give a marriage license to a Gay couple.Radical Islam that kill indiscriminately in the name of God..Zealots that kill Doctors that perform Abortions, & justify it by saying they are doing Gods work. This is what the Republican Party adhered to, and why there is such dissension in their ranks, & why Church attendance is at an all time low. This country will only progress for the benefit of all it's citizens if it remains Secular, & encourages free thought, & enforces the separation between Church & State.President Bush was elected with the help of the religious right, & as part of his infamous legacy he curtailed the use of stem cells being used for research taken from umbilical cords.This is what we must consider when we cast our votes. You don't elect a person you elect a party.
7
Shortly after the 9/11 terrorist attacks, televangelists Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell proclaimed them to be a manifestation of God's taking retribution on a sinful America for allowing abortion and granting gay rights. Following the earthquake in Haiti in 2010 Pat Robertson proclaimed this event to be an example of God's taking retribution on that unfortunate nation for its citizens embrace of the practice of voodoo. These evangelicals are mentally ill. The fact of the matter is that we live on a dynamic, living planet, and disasters are going to happen. They are not proof of retribution against a sinful humanity by the evangelicals' imaginary friend in the sky. Having said this, I am waiting for Pat Robertson and his ilk to comment on the recent catastrophic floods in Bible Belt red states South Carolina, Mississippi, Texas and Louisiana. And what about the recent spate of tornadoes in Bible Belt red states Oklahoma, Texas, Kansas and Arkansas? I guess the people there just didn't pray hard enough to their Lord and Savior to protect them, huh? I guess they just didn't thump that Bile hard enough, did they? Good riddance to the religious right. I'll believe it when I see it.
8
They are still the dominnant force in the Republican Party. Don't be deceaved that it is the ignorant racists that support Trump. It is the ignorant, racist, conservative "christians."
6
I've had to end a twenty-year friendship
because of unmitigated efforts to force me
to "accept Jesus".
It's just not cool to be an extremist.
because of unmitigated efforts to force me
to "accept Jesus".
It's just not cool to be an extremist.
11
The NYT and the liberal could certainly hope it is the end of the religious right. They have embraced the LGBT movement, feminism, race, etc., but to ask them to tolerate people that believe in a Christian God is asking a little much. Tolerance is often a slogan and not a reality.
Whether Trump's nomination is the end of the religious right or not, evangelicals' support for Trump reveals that religious principle does not drive their votes, and that all the decades of blathering about governing according Christian values was a crock of hypocrisy.
politicsbyeccehomo.wordpress.com
politicsbyeccehomo.wordpress.com
3
Trump is clear evidence that the ultimate faith of many Southern white evangelicals is to discard dog-whistles in favor of open calls to hate established disliked individuals and groups protected by the US Constitution. Clearly their main love is not the Bible or a humble caring Jesus. Trump is an unbridled attack dog and the evangelicals who support him don't care how un-Christian he is. Their Bible tells them who's dirty and not shiny white and Trump has appealed to their core beliefs.
Let's be clear - these are *self-identified* Evangelicals. By the standards of many others, they wouldn't even qualify as Christian.
6
America's fundamentalist population isn't going anywhere. The fact that their majority tends to react positively to politicians claming that this or that new pool table in River City is a threat to the future of morality -- hence their salvation -- demonstrates how resilient they actually are.
The communal "martyrdom" of losing a political fight helps to bind them together, and to recruit new True Believers. What is this author smoking?
The communal "martyrdom" of losing a political fight helps to bind them together, and to recruit new True Believers. What is this author smoking?
2
If this means never to have to see or hear ted cruz again, then I'm all for its quick demise.
6
I certainly hope it's a relationship gone to God....I never cared for some group of sanctimonious hypocrites pounding on me to see salvation only though their prisms. It's just one reason I never set foot in churches, mosques, temples or strip joints....I see them all in the same light, which is to say myth.
5
Oh please may it come pass.
I , for one, am so tired of having other people's beliefs forced on me
I , for one, am so tired of having other people's beliefs forced on me
7
Well I certainly appreciate the fact that Christians aren't being dumped into a single bucket and collectively blamed for all that is bad or hypocritical about society and pre-judged accordingly. Come again? They are, you say? Rest assured, this Christian kid has nothing to do with Trump. Nor do I share common ground with with Dennis Hastert (as other comments have suggested). It appears that Christian's hold the distinction of not being distinct and fair game for blanket accusations. We're ALL either the mindless drones clutching the social standards of the 19th Century or the annoying neighbors you 'put up with but don't really like' as seemingly every TV show would suggest. You better sit down for this--I don't always vote Republican and I read the Times.
10
The truth of the matter is they were played by the GOP. And they were easy marks because they as a group seem terribly naïve about how the powerful and those who seek power, position and money operate. They bought the republican con game hook, line, and sinker.
5
God, I hope so.
9
"Oh God, oh God, let it be so!" this atheist prays that the title of this Op-Ed comes to pass.
9
If Trump met the Samaritan woman at the well, he would call immigration. how many Trump articles in the NYTimes today?
3
The end of the religious right? We should be so lucky!
8
If you think the end of the religious right is near, please come on down to North Carolina, where Franklin Graham seeks a Christian theocracy from elected politicians more than willing to oblige.
7
What a ridiculous title... Have you seen the vicious legislation passed against a woman's right to choose...oh, I get it that doesn't matter! The relgious right is well and alive in state houses and in Congress. Why is it that the AG will bring a law suit to protect trans gender rights (not that I object to that law suit) but will not open her mouth to protect women's rights and the president gives relgious institutions exemptions from the law. No the relgious right is still very powerful and don't you forget it. Theocrats are on the move.
10
This is a nice balance to her incisive article on the religious left, and the inner tensions it is facing. What? What? She's never written anything about the religious left? Just the religious right? Oh.
The Republican elite and leadership, from the Bushes, Rove, Limbaugh, McCain, Romney etc. and now down to Trump & Cruz have seemed to think that the Evangelical base you're writing about are basically dumb bunnies who can be manipulated and exploited, and so far there's little to show that view is wrong.
4
Elmer Gantry is reborn with orange hair!
6
End of the Religious Right? From your mouth to God's ear.
5
Let's hope that it is the end, God knows it's time. It's always been a con, and remains a con. Good riddance.
20
In the US for a long time there has been too much religion in the public sphere and not enough Christianity. There really is a Constitutional statement promoting the idea of separation of church and state, no matter what our religious Taliban believes.
24
I was listening to a piece on our public radio station with some Christians in South Carolina on why they supported Trump even though at best he is a nominal Christian. And the reply was they wanted to elect someone who would get things done not a Sunday School teacher. The belittling and attempt at making Christians into a monolithic group is just lazy reporting by those on the left. Christians are diverse in opinions and have responsibilities like everyone else. The notion that we want to turn the US or other countries into theocratic states are pure nonsense espoused by atheists like Richard Dawkins and his followers. Your average Christian probably has no problem with anyone of a diverse religious view so long as they are respectful and don't malign their faith. The fact that Donald Trump doesn't know all the books in the bible or the order in which they are listed makes not a wit of difference to me. I have been a Christian more than 30 years and I still use the concordance to look up Bible verses.
6
The religious right has tried to force the whole nation to obey their rules. Go away and worry about your own souls.
23
My first close encounter with these people was during an anti-abortion-rights rally in the early 80s in Washington, DC, where I watched streams of these flag- and bible-waving "Christians" ignore (if not practically trample) the homeless who were sleeping on steam grates around the National Mall.
How ignorant of their Christ's most fundamental teachings can they be? I wondered. And I'm still wondering.
When their leaders, like Franklin Graham, criticize John Boehner for his recent remarks about Ted Cruz, instead of focusing on their Christ's teachings, I must conclude that modern American "Christianity" is a hollow, corrupt vessel and sham exercise in power-seeking.
How ignorant of their Christ's most fundamental teachings can they be? I wondered. And I'm still wondering.
When their leaders, like Franklin Graham, criticize John Boehner for his recent remarks about Ted Cruz, instead of focusing on their Christ's teachings, I must conclude that modern American "Christianity" is a hollow, corrupt vessel and sham exercise in power-seeking.
21
This isn't a surprise. The Republicans have long failed to understand their own constituency. They thought people were rallying to their side for religious reasons. The truth is that a significant percentage of their voters were just buying into the racist, sexist subtext of the GOP message.
21
Many in the 'religious right' are following cults that have little to do with the actual teachings of Christ as outlined in the Gospels. Some are hung up on Old Testament tribal bigotries or New Testament (non-Gospel) writings of early church leaders who were creating an institution Christ never envisioned in the midst of the Roman Empire. Many in the 'religious right' know almost nothing about the historical realities of the institution of the church and get their facts spoon fed by personality-driven ministers who are primarily interested in preserving their own incomes.
17
Where the religious right and the political right elide, is the rock-bottom presumption that the world has been created for white males, supported by their women, to dominate society. The more diverse we become as a nation, racially, culturally, religiously, the more ferocious is their push-back.
34
The right-wing religious theory seems to be that if you squeeze your eyes shut and believe it, god will have made everyone do and feel and think exactly what you want them to when you open your eyes back up.
Same with how much money you have. God as wish fulfillment, and the wishes all have to do with me: granting them, giving me what I want, especially that everyone else is just like me, or just like what I can't be but everybody is supposed to be. And what you're supposed to be and do has an awful lot to do with sex, all these rules, all this guilt because sex is such serious business.
I thought religion was supposed to help you cope with the terrible disappointments in life, the terrible pain and sorrow, one's own and everybody else's, to help you relax and enjoy life. I will never understand why some people can't be happy unless all their questions are answered, they have everything they want, and everybody else is just like them.
Same with how much money you have. God as wish fulfillment, and the wishes all have to do with me: granting them, giving me what I want, especially that everyone else is just like me, or just like what I can't be but everybody is supposed to be. And what you're supposed to be and do has an awful lot to do with sex, all these rules, all this guilt because sex is such serious business.
I thought religion was supposed to help you cope with the terrible disappointments in life, the terrible pain and sorrow, one's own and everybody else's, to help you relax and enjoy life. I will never understand why some people can't be happy unless all their questions are answered, they have everything they want, and everybody else is just like them.
12
Former Speaker Hastert is a perfect example of the sanctimonious "repentant" self-labeled right-minded Christian (not at all Christian in action). Busy minding other people's sex lives while corrupt in his own, and so twisted he thought his own actions could be set aside.
39
"Is This the End of the Religious Right?"
No. No more so than the supposed implosion of the Republican Party is the end of the political right. Just as the political right has never given up on fighting the New Deal and Civil Rights, when the RR lose one battle they regroup and either fight the same one again and again (abortion rights) or substitute a new one (bathrooms for gay marriage).
The moral is that the good guys need to be equally determined, and prepared to never give up defending hard-won rights.
No. No more so than the supposed implosion of the Republican Party is the end of the political right. Just as the political right has never given up on fighting the New Deal and Civil Rights, when the RR lose one battle they regroup and either fight the same one again and again (abortion rights) or substitute a new one (bathrooms for gay marriage).
The moral is that the good guys need to be equally determined, and prepared to never give up defending hard-won rights.
29
Yes, and they just add to their list of grievances and grievous laws. And they wail about these things way past their time of being accepted and embraced. Maybe, just maybe, someday we will just be able to ignore them. Like Chicken Little, The Boy Who Cried Wolf, and others who kept beating a dead horse.
Agreed. Consider the fellow who appears to be next up, after Mr. Trump strikes out (one hopes), now in the batter's box, Ted Cruz.
1
"He [Trump] declined, for the most part, to weigh in on the religious right’s new formulation on gay rights, which is to frame it as an issue of religious freedom for conservative Christians."
That is a clever way of explaining the fundamentally authoritarian, anti-liberal nature of Christianity, which is not new. The Christians see it to be their devine right and freedom to deny gays the freedom to marry same-sex partners because the Bible does say that gay behavior is sinful. The Bible provides no forgiveness for it and says that those who engage in gay behavior should be put to death (Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13). The main difference between regular Christians and the Christian Right is that the right is even more authoritarian and interprets the Bible literally, whereas the others make their own liberal interpretations of the Bible, such as by claiming that God forgives gays.
That is a clever way of explaining the fundamentally authoritarian, anti-liberal nature of Christianity, which is not new. The Christians see it to be their devine right and freedom to deny gays the freedom to marry same-sex partners because the Bible does say that gay behavior is sinful. The Bible provides no forgiveness for it and says that those who engage in gay behavior should be put to death (Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13). The main difference between regular Christians and the Christian Right is that the right is even more authoritarian and interprets the Bible literally, whereas the others make their own liberal interpretations of the Bible, such as by claiming that God forgives gays.
8
I beg to differ with your assertion that the Bible offers no forgiveness for the sins listed in Leviticus. The entire New Testament is founded on such forgivenessis and the view that no person is beyond salvation.
5
Is This the End of the Religious Right?
Actually, the question should be, is this the end of the right-wing, hypocrite, religious Taliban?
The answer is: I HOPE SO!
Actually, the question should be, is this the end of the right-wing, hypocrite, religious Taliban?
The answer is: I HOPE SO!
32
Was the answer ever in doubt? As if the Harlem Globetrotters would let the Washington Generals win? Rest your hopes.
I have little respect any more for the American Religious Right. The final nail in the coffin for me was their generally enthusiastic support for starting the war in Iraq which was unnecessary (WMD or not). This was a severe disappointment for me.
Jesus repeatedly & emphatically denounced war ("blessed are the peacemakers", "turn the other cheek", "love your enemies", forgiveness, etc.) and yet the Religious Right tends to support needless warfare and condone widespread use of torture against POWs.
On the other hand, Jesus said nothing explicit about homosexuality, but the Religious Right is outspoken against that & contraceptives.
I used to have some sympathy for fundamentalist Christians. But very little now. To me, they're mostly just a current contemporary social/political cult, largely divorced from the teachings of Jesus, & akin to the religious hypocrites Jesus denounced.
If we've seen the end of the "Religious Right", that's fine with me. Maybe we'll begin to see Americans arise who actually believe & try to consistently practice the ethical teachings of Jesus. It would make for a better country & maybe a better world.
Jesus repeatedly & emphatically denounced war ("blessed are the peacemakers", "turn the other cheek", "love your enemies", forgiveness, etc.) and yet the Religious Right tends to support needless warfare and condone widespread use of torture against POWs.
On the other hand, Jesus said nothing explicit about homosexuality, but the Religious Right is outspoken against that & contraceptives.
I used to have some sympathy for fundamentalist Christians. But very little now. To me, they're mostly just a current contemporary social/political cult, largely divorced from the teachings of Jesus, & akin to the religious hypocrites Jesus denounced.
If we've seen the end of the "Religious Right", that's fine with me. Maybe we'll begin to see Americans arise who actually believe & try to consistently practice the ethical teachings of Jesus. It would make for a better country & maybe a better world.
25
There is still the problem of many politicians, majority of whom that are Republicans, still desire to pander to such groups and as we have seen in North Carolina and Mississippi, while decrying government in their hypocritical rhetoric, enact government legislation to do so at the expense of everyone else.
1
Don't forget about Revelations, the last book added to the New Testament that reads like a fiction story dreamed up by L. Ron Hubbard. There is a strong belief in the second coming and end of world stories by much of the Christian right, and assumptions that catastrophic war in the Middle East is part of the narrative. That is why they back Israel so much, not to save Israel, but to bring on the end of times. They firmly believe they will get directly imported to Heaven as a result. Crazy? Not to them, and they vote religiously (pun intended).
2
I hope so.
16
Yes and I hope it ends faster. These climate change, evolution and abortion rights deniers can rest in peace.
21
Evangelicals are high jacking our economy for their own selfish goals. The residents of NC do not need to suffer federal funding and business revenue due to the Evangelical's own personal ideological agenda. Come on, billions of dollars over a bathroom!?
21
Goofballs. Al of them goofballs.
10
Love thy neighbor. Turn the other cheek. Blessed are the meek. A rich man has as much chance of reaching heaven as a camel has of passing through the eye of a needle... and so forth.
23
Sorry to intrude on this atheistic leftwing echo chamber, but the conservative religious block has been a socio-political force in this country since its founding. Until the 1960s, when the atheistic secularism movement began to pick up steam, religious conservatives had no reason to become politically involved as there was a broad moral consensus in this country than spanned the political spectrum. there was no need in the 1950s or at any time previously to stake out national political positions on the transgendered rights issue or abortion rights issues, for example, because the prevalent conservative religious character of the country made them non-issues, politically speaking.
It was only when the secular left began attempting to legislate on matters previously considered off limits, that religion became a defining political force in American politics. And, now that the atheistic, secular religion of the Left has driven traditional conservative religious adherents from the Democratic Party, the Republican Party is about the only place they can be found in numbers large enough to matter.
But, you leftists needn't worry too much about the influence of religious conservatives anymore. You have succeeded too well at turning the minds of a previously devout nation. Judicial tyranny and control of the education system have done the rest. They are indeed on the wane now. Congratulations.
It was only when the secular left began attempting to legislate on matters previously considered off limits, that religion became a defining political force in American politics. And, now that the atheistic, secular religion of the Left has driven traditional conservative religious adherents from the Democratic Party, the Republican Party is about the only place they can be found in numbers large enough to matter.
But, you leftists needn't worry too much about the influence of religious conservatives anymore. You have succeeded too well at turning the minds of a previously devout nation. Judicial tyranny and control of the education system have done the rest. They are indeed on the wane now. Congratulations.
5
Thank goodness.
9
"It was only when the secular left began attempting to legislate on matters previously considered off limits..."
Well, right on! secular leftists! It was long past time to get those "off limits" topics out into the sunshine! Kinda like the early nineteenth century when slavery was more widely called into question, and the seventeenth and eighteenth when witch burning (and stoning and hanging and drowning) became obsolete.
Of course, "Conservative" is a shorthand term for "we've always done it that way."
Well, right on! secular leftists! It was long past time to get those "off limits" topics out into the sunshine! Kinda like the early nineteenth century when slavery was more widely called into question, and the seventeenth and eighteenth when witch burning (and stoning and hanging and drowning) became obsolete.
Of course, "Conservative" is a shorthand term for "we've always done it that way."
1
Eyes get opened. We aren't in the Middle Ages any more. You can't stop the tide. I may not like all the changes, but I know it's useless to try to stop them. It's what happens.
1
I would add that part of Mr. Trump's appeal to evangelicals is his disdain of a Republican establishment that for years has made promises to the Religious Right that they knew they could not keep. Evangelicals are beginning to see that Republican promises to repeal Roe vs, Wade and criminalize homosexuality, etc. were just ploys to get them to vote against their own economic interests. Those who evangelicals who support Trump do so for the same reasons many others do: anger and resentment.
4
I agree. Too bad Trump has no real ideas and no ability to solve any of their problems.
7
From a yankee living in NC some observations: This is what Nixon's southern strategy was all about, capturing Dixiecrats who moved to the Republican side in droves after civil rights legislation passed. This is the Bible belt where religion hangs in the air as thick as the heat and humidity of summer. I recently drove through a small SC town with a banner hanging "Mayor's Prayer Breakfast May 8th". If I were a Muslim I would have showed up with a prayer rug. So much for separation of church and state. Evangelicals seem more interested in salvation than in helping the poor. Some do care and provide for the poor, but these poor must be like them. If all the thousands of churches in the South dedicated themselves to helping the poor, they could not overcome the poverty and the insufficient health care. This can only be done with Federal assistance (with tax money collected from the more wealthy states of the north). So NC worries about who maybe in the ladies room with me, but not about the 19% of residents in Buncombe County where I live who don't have any health insurance. God forbid they accept medicaid expansion. I will say spring is lovely down below the Mason Dixon line.
12
It is the old issue of hiding behind the bible to justify ones thoughts and actions even if all the thoughts and actions are wrong.
Interesting thoughts. Must admit the first thing I looked at was to make sure this was under "The Opinion Pages" (and it is), so Ms. Posner is welcome to opine, although I think the analysis and conjecture is a little superficial. Sorry.
2
I enjoyed reading.
I love the Christians and Jews, and Buddhists, and peaceful Muslims.
Religious people are some of the best people in our nation, but they are trained to blindly follow the leader and forsaking their own soul and it's reasoning abilities. The Republican leadership took advantage of this early and most recently by Ted Cruz. I recall Newt Gingrich persistently holding his arms outstretched like Jesus on the cross, or a priest before the alter, and most recently, Don Trump has been doing the same. Is that a mundane observation? No. It lures peoples subconscious into worshiping the leader.
The Christians were duped. Attending Church and being a part of a following or fellowship is very healthy, but a person still has to have a soul, or mind of their own to truly worship the wonders of God and the world and understand their own lives and how to live.
Church is where the best people of society are. The rest of the week they must be independent and thoughtful about all in their lives.
I love the Christians and Jews, and Buddhists, and peaceful Muslims.
Religious people are some of the best people in our nation, but they are trained to blindly follow the leader and forsaking their own soul and it's reasoning abilities. The Republican leadership took advantage of this early and most recently by Ted Cruz. I recall Newt Gingrich persistently holding his arms outstretched like Jesus on the cross, or a priest before the alter, and most recently, Don Trump has been doing the same. Is that a mundane observation? No. It lures peoples subconscious into worshiping the leader.
The Christians were duped. Attending Church and being a part of a following or fellowship is very healthy, but a person still has to have a soul, or mind of their own to truly worship the wonders of God and the world and understand their own lives and how to live.
Church is where the best people of society are. The rest of the week they must be independent and thoughtful about all in their lives.
5
I am not in church and I am among the best in society. I would say the very best.
10
A group of people who are unwilling to compromise on the "big" issues will, itself, eventually divide into factions that cannot tolerate each other's smaller issues. "My way or the highway" turns into "my way or the side roads," and then it just dead ends.
18
Yes, eventually, no one is pure enough and they start to eat their own.
2
Hooray! The NY Times and the left has finally vanquished this menacing foe! Give me a break. Only a couple election cycles ago, the Democrats were seeking the vote of Christians. Gay marriage has only just been acknowledged by the front-running Dem candidates to be OK because they have "evolved" C'mon, the article drips with hate. There are no hypocrites on the left? They don't seek to sway their belief into government policy? They do not have a organizational block to aid these endeavors? Of course they do. Only a few short years ago, MOST people would identify as Christian. Does it or did it ever occur to the author, that these individuals have seen an assault on just about everything they believe and are reacting politically. IMO the author cannot tolerate an opinion not shared by her. She is giving this group too much credit for moving an election and policy either way. She states "for the last 30 years" The last 30 years has seen just about an even split in all branches of national gov't. If localities still see the influence of Christians, maybe it is because they are voting, but it also could be at least some of these "values" are shared. Hallelujah! oops sorry Great! America will now be safe for all b/c those hypocrite Christians have no one to vote for. Thank God oops again Thank the Great Spirit or whatever. Article was a waste of space showing the disdain the NY Times and the author has for this dwindling demographic. Joyfully celebrating their demise.
3
Trump's main role is as the only disrupter with enough power to break up the already brokern Republican party, and very likely the future demise of the Democrats as well.
Think people, think. It's actually in the long run, excellent news.
I am voting for Trump because there were 0 candidates I felt should be Presidents. Trump at least isn't status quo. To me, it's past time for that.
Think people, think. It's actually in the long run, excellent news.
I am voting for Trump because there were 0 candidates I felt should be Presidents. Trump at least isn't status quo. To me, it's past time for that.
Doesn't matter.
Hillary will carry WA by double digits anyway (thankfully).
Hillary will carry WA by double digits anyway (thankfully).
2
Is the almighty sending them a message? Perhaps it is "not in my name !"
3
Evangelicals have been compromising their religion in favor of politics ever since they gave a pass at Ronnie being divorced.
They have voted against their own economic interests for 40 years in doing so - to their own detriment.
By supporting the Donald, politics trumps religion.
They have voted against their own economic interests for 40 years in doing so - to their own detriment.
By supporting the Donald, politics trumps religion.
8
I hear this statement all the time, but no one can ever give me an example. How exactly do conservatives vote against their self interest by voting conservative? Is it because liberals are simply better and smarter and just the thought of being conservative obviously means they don't know what is best for them? Because that's what it always appears, if only those darn conservatives were smart, they would be liberals.
This demographic group is dying a slow death. Only non believers will be left to pray for their souls.
3
Religion has ZERO place in politics. I'll happily watch it go out the window.
18
but demanding that religion has no place in society does have a place in politics?
2
It went out the window over 20 years go. Stop watching.
All the Religious Right is, and has been, is identity politics. "What would Jesus do?" is the most beautiful righteous guide for all of us (including agnostics like me) but is the least important force in directing the socio-political actions of this group. There are some fantastic religious people who "walk the walk" but political leaders of the movement are not representing these folks.
8
There is nothing wrong with being religious and letting your religion drive your lifestyle or voting record. However the problem comes when this system of belief does not recognize change or accept change. Then you are locked into a fight to drag society into a status they might have had in the 19th century. Change is forward moving and those with religious beliefs must find it within their heart to adapt or they will be left on the sidelines feeling very angry.
1
The real problem with the evangelicals right, is that their form of christianity stifles thought. It does not embrace critical thinking and expansion of new ideas, thus leaving them behing human development, in many areas.
9
"Mr. Trump understood he could unite nativists and culture warriors using his diatribes against political correctness as an all-purpose code to stoke conservative resentments." This is a leap. It's not at all clear that Donald Trump understands what he is doing.
4
In 2004 Christians in Ohio were herded to the polls by clever Republicans who put anti-gay marriage initiatives on the ballot. They supplied the margin of victory for Bush in that state, putting him over the top in the Electoral College count. One could say that anti-gay Evangelicals were responsible for rewarding the worst President in modern times with an undeserved second term-- The President who invaded the wrong country, destabilized the Middle East, broke the budget, inadequately responded to natural disasters, and let the financial industry run amok, all the while allowing his poorly chosen subordinates to make wildly irresponsible and disastrous decisions. Evangelical Christians, so brazenly manipulated by Karl Rove in Ohio, have this shameful history to remember.
25
I look foreword to the "religious conversion" of Mr. Trump. I am sure he will be the "best evangelical ever".
As we all know, Trump is "the best at everything".
As we all know, Trump is "the best at everything".
9
Religion is really a sanctioned form of bigotry. The chosen ones, or the saved, are distinguished from the others who will somehow suffer in the eternal fires of hell for simplify questioning the unconditional love of their Gods. It's a way of forming tribes to protect resources and wealth, and therefore gene pools. We have to recognize this and the implications of Social Darwinism in order to be able to have intelligent discussions about how to balance it for the common good.
But I'm done rationalizing religious conservatives as it is impossible to rationalize the irrational. Their embrace of Trump has proven their real fealty is to power and wealth, not any notion of God. I have lost patience with their hypocrisy and choose to no longer engage.
But I'm done rationalizing religious conservatives as it is impossible to rationalize the irrational. Their embrace of Trump has proven their real fealty is to power and wealth, not any notion of God. I have lost patience with their hypocrisy and choose to no longer engage.
9
Actually the Religious Right can't stomach the practically atheist Donald Trump who has spent 'minutes' in a church throughout his life of Money Accumualtion, and Worship of Luxury and Wealth above all else. If anything Trump proves how right the Evangelicals are about the Real Estate Developer, self-promoter, and Egotist
2
One can only hope that this is correct. Religious extremists have held far too much power in the US which is a diverse nation based on the separation of church and state. Their sanctimonious piety has unsuccessfully veiled intolerance, ignorance, and a certainty that their way is the only way. Everyone is entitled to practice their religion, but this should not be coupled with politics in the way it has been in the US. I cringe every time I hear one of these folks, or even worse a candidate, declaring that the US is a Christian country. It is not. That would make it a country only for them. Or is that what they want?
6
If religion ceases to be a driving force in our politics, it will be the best thing to come out of 2016 presidential race. It has long held us back as a nation.
We might have lead the world in stem cell research, for example, but forfeited that opportunity to appease a small group of people.
Should the religious right lose its primacy permanently, even the GOP will be set free. Sort of like the polar bears on ever shrinking pack ice.
We might have lead the world in stem cell research, for example, but forfeited that opportunity to appease a small group of people.
Should the religious right lose its primacy permanently, even the GOP will be set free. Sort of like the polar bears on ever shrinking pack ice.
8
Religion is a disease. It may be mitigated and even seemingly wiped out but there will alway be a hidden pockets of virus that will revive, thrive and grow to infect huge populations of the needy and ignorant. History has shown the pattern repeat itself interminably. The best we can hope for is to keep it benign and secured legally separate from the constitutional rights of citizens.
8
Is This the End of the Religious Right?
So the dark flatulent cloud of Donald Trump may have a silver lining!
So the dark flatulent cloud of Donald Trump may have a silver lining!
6
The religious right holds all the cards the GOP needs to win - there are just too many states and too many votes for the party leaders not to throw in with them. No matter how bitter the taste.
This new GOP will need them too - the All White - All New GOP will get there and once again the GOP will be, God's Old Party once again.
They need the votes and they are bent on survival - history repeats.
This new GOP will need them too - the All White - All New GOP will get there and once again the GOP will be, God's Old Party once again.
They need the votes and they are bent on survival - history repeats.
2
An NPR story today focused on society moving away from religion and how evangelicals are adapting (or not). It touched on the evangelicals' opposition to gay and transgender rights and judgment of divorced people. It went on to mention that evangelicals feel they are being marginalized, or something along those lines. The irony...
4
I am of the opinion that we as a nation should abolish religion from all law.
Not only does our Constitution require us to do so, but there is such diversity that there is no completely common ground that any law about religion could be based on.
The first amendment tells us that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion". "Respecting" as used could be translated as "about" or even "showing deference" but the one thing for sure is it was written to exclude any governmental support for religion.
Look at what we have now and we were supposed to have a purely secular government.
Not only does our Constitution require us to do so, but there is such diversity that there is no completely common ground that any law about religion could be based on.
The first amendment tells us that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion". "Respecting" as used could be translated as "about" or even "showing deference" but the one thing for sure is it was written to exclude any governmental support for religion.
Look at what we have now and we were supposed to have a purely secular government.
9
Even if the religious right/evangelical forces are weakened on the national level, they will still carry outsized influence on the state legislative level - just look at what is happening in North Carolina, Oklahoma, Alabama, and Kansas.
5
We will see what they love....god or money. They'll vote for Trump because the idea of Hillary using tax dollars to put a roof on a school in North Philly is hateful. They put bush in office and he never did a thing for them. Hillary ought to hit the bottle and have a big weepy salvation.
4
You give Trump too much credit. As in every other subject, history, geography, the economy, Trump knows little or nothing, and he doesn't know about or practice any religion, apparently. I certainly don't fault him for the latter. The country will elect a mastodon like Trump, selling his bag of confused and muddy ignorance, before it elects an avowed atheist.
Trump is just an empty suit, albeit rumpled, ill-made in China, and selling for far more than it's worth, but empty. He doesn't know from evangelicals. Probably doesn't know that evangelicals are brainwashed, intellectually lazy, and, in some cases, delusional and hallucinational, but revere and perpetuate their brand of religion.
The capitalistic corporate mess we live in slots in well with the religious ferver of believers, all that black Friday bunkum in the name of Jesus. And business promotes and perpetuates Christianity and all its mythical hocus pocus to keep us tethered to the market.
If I thought Trump knew about the role evangelicals have played in thwarting social change and impinging on our rights, I would be elated. But Trump understands nothing. He will pander in his superficial fashion with his "little cracker" and bit of wine, and maybe he tweets to God nightly. But nobody matters to him, least of all a bunch of bible-thumpers who are losing clout to the mob of chest thumpers with the ax handles.
Trump is just an empty suit, albeit rumpled, ill-made in China, and selling for far more than it's worth, but empty. He doesn't know from evangelicals. Probably doesn't know that evangelicals are brainwashed, intellectually lazy, and, in some cases, delusional and hallucinational, but revere and perpetuate their brand of religion.
The capitalistic corporate mess we live in slots in well with the religious ferver of believers, all that black Friday bunkum in the name of Jesus. And business promotes and perpetuates Christianity and all its mythical hocus pocus to keep us tethered to the market.
If I thought Trump knew about the role evangelicals have played in thwarting social change and impinging on our rights, I would be elated. But Trump understands nothing. He will pander in his superficial fashion with his "little cracker" and bit of wine, and maybe he tweets to God nightly. But nobody matters to him, least of all a bunch of bible-thumpers who are losing clout to the mob of chest thumpers with the ax handles.
5
Let's hope so.
4
The fat cats in both the Democratic and Republican parties couldn't elect a dog-catcher outside of Greenwich and Palm Beach. They don't have the votes. So they have to CON the voters they need to vote the fat cats' way. The Republicans have done it for decades with white voters with guns, "God," and bloody fetuses. The Democrats, as Hillary just demonstrated by defeating Sanders for Goldman, have done the same thing with blacks with "racism." Anything to distract the lemmings of both parties, and both races, from the actual economic class war against them from the top. This year, both Sanders and Trump have gone far to wake up the white working-class to how they've been so brutally conned into voting against themselves for so long. Too bad Hillary was so successful in keeping the blacks so much better conned than the whites now are. Without "racism," Bernie would be the nominee going away, and would NOT be four points behind Trump in Ohio in the latest poll today.
Oh, why shouldn't American evangelicals use their religion to inform their politics? isn't that what happened in the Crusades? In the Spain of Their Catholic Majesties? With Henry Tudor? In the Irish Revolution? And isn't religion driving the unrest across the Middle East?
The problem here is, Donald Trump does not ask forgiveness, is not repentant and does not practice his nominal religion. He only plays religious on TV, and not very often.
Does God not recognize hypocrisy?
The problem here is, Donald Trump does not ask forgiveness, is not repentant and does not practice his nominal religion. He only plays religious on TV, and not very often.
Does God not recognize hypocrisy?
Any chance Christians could be convinced to reread the Gospels for themselves? There's little in there about hate, or exclusion, or wealth acquisition and property rights.
They are nice short repetitive documents. One could start with the Sermon on the Mount.
I've often thought Jesus in the flesh would be put in Gitmo or some such. Preaching nonviolence and sharing, so socialist!
They are nice short repetitive documents. One could start with the Sermon on the Mount.
I've often thought Jesus in the flesh would be put in Gitmo or some such. Preaching nonviolence and sharing, so socialist!
16
And fellow Atheists, please practice some tolerance. Religion is here to stay; history shows that if there is no religion people invent it. It is capable of doing a lot of good, and I've lived amongst Christian communities who studied and worked hard to be moral and giving and caring and generous. Love has a place in our lives, and if religion helps with that, it's a good thing. It's the perversion of religion for selfish gain and to promote hate that gets us in a twist.
14
Susan, no one has to tolerate hate and bigotry. No one. Even if the bigot is wrapped in some holy papyrus or another,
12
Miriam, disagreeing with someone over policy is not hate or bigotry. People can and do have differences of opinion and that doesn't make either person wrong. The last 7 years, all criticisms that come from the right are labeled as racist or bigoted simply because the person hearing the critique disagrees with it.
You want to live in a free society? Sometimes you need to bite your tongue when someone says something you dislike. If you want a society that no one can be offended, we'll need to eliminate at least 90% of all humanity.
You want to live in a free society? Sometimes you need to bite your tongue when someone says something you dislike. If you want a society that no one can be offended, we'll need to eliminate at least 90% of all humanity.
Poor souls. They can't figure out how Trump made it through the eye of a needle.
4
They are missing the point completely. Those that consider their faith are faithful, but not idiots. Like fiscal conservatives, religious conservatives have seen that those that TELL them they agree with them, ACT differently. Religious people recognize that without a country, their religious views won't matter anyway. It is simply a matter of priority. If your house is on fire, you don't go to church.....you put the fire out. That doesn't mean religion isn't important to you. They didn't vote for Trump because they don't care about religion any more. They voted for Trump because having religion....but no country, isn't all that great either.
1
We have our wild eyed extremists in the US also. Just because they are blond and blue eyed does not mean that they are not as crazy as the brown ones. Also, their propensity for violence is well established. One effort from them easily dwarfs anything from a bunch of known crazies. After all, they have the training.
3
Like the Planned Parenthood shooter who's in court today.
4
The right-wing preaching politicians have been trounced by Trump, and for that I am grateful. Republicans who so loudly opposed choice for women, marriage for gays, and tolerance of gender differences have been forced to face the facts.
Tolerance for racial and religious differences will get the similar affirmation they deserve in November. Trump's resounding loss will put a big smile on the face of the Statue of Liberty. Hallelujah!
Tolerance for racial and religious differences will get the similar affirmation they deserve in November. Trump's resounding loss will put a big smile on the face of the Statue of Liberty. Hallelujah!
2
Is the end of the religious right? Unfortunately, no. They're just busy tyrannizing each other now as well, but they're nowhere near finished tyrannizing the Muslims, LGTB, Planned Parenthood and its patients, educators and school boards who'd teach real science, real history, and sex education yet.
And why focus on Trump? America's evangelicals gave us Sarah Palin! And Michelle Bachmann, Ben Carson, Robert Bentley, Louie Gohmert, Bobby Jindahl, Rick Snyder, Dennis Hastert, and on and on. Mike Huckabee! Who peddles nonsense filled textbooks to thousands of homeschoolers teaching creationism, climate change denialism, and ahistorical claptrap written by the crackpot flimflam artist, David Barton, and who treats Beyoncé as a more serious threat the "culture" than JimBob and Josh Duggar!
The evangelical electorate has brought forth a long, long list of cranks, nincompoops and conmen. Trump is just a more show biz savvy nincompoop crank conman and the majority of evangelicals, who certainly rank among America's most intractably gullible voters, will come around and back Trump. No doubt.
And why focus on Trump? America's evangelicals gave us Sarah Palin! And Michelle Bachmann, Ben Carson, Robert Bentley, Louie Gohmert, Bobby Jindahl, Rick Snyder, Dennis Hastert, and on and on. Mike Huckabee! Who peddles nonsense filled textbooks to thousands of homeschoolers teaching creationism, climate change denialism, and ahistorical claptrap written by the crackpot flimflam artist, David Barton, and who treats Beyoncé as a more serious threat the "culture" than JimBob and Josh Duggar!
The evangelical electorate has brought forth a long, long list of cranks, nincompoops and conmen. Trump is just a more show biz savvy nincompoop crank conman and the majority of evangelicals, who certainly rank among America's most intractably gullible voters, will come around and back Trump. No doubt.
11
The "Christian Right" has done more harm to Christianity and the individuals who desperately need spiritual healing than they have done good in the political arena to influence our laws. They have politicized the life-saving, transformational, spiritual message of Jesus. To imply if not overtly state that only one political party is the "party of God" and only one conservative position on social, economic and foreign policy issues is the "Christian" position makes conservative political views the "litmus test" for spiritual salvation. They may as well declare, "You won't go to heaven if you don't vote Republican." I don't see Jesus in any of this. The way to transform the morals, ethics and values of a whole country is to transform the individuals in it and that is what religions can do and governments and laws can't do. For faith leaders and the faithful, spreading the gospel and saving souls while feeding the hungry, housing the homeless, and healing the sick as Jesus commanded, is a fulltime job that is never finished. Political action drains off millions of dollars and hours of manpower from that central mission. I am hopeful that the so obviously flawed Donald Trump will, unwittingly, show many politically-focused Christians that their faith in politicians and political action is misplaced.
11
An end to the religious right? Great! This would be the first prayer I've ever had answered!
23
"What's Next for the Religious Right?"
What's next for the snail darter?
What's next for cold fusion?
What's next for the Women's Christian Temperance Union?
What's next for the snail darter?
What's next for cold fusion?
What's next for the Women's Christian Temperance Union?
3
The Republican party is not defined solely by its nominee for President. It's absolutely the case that a nativist candidate is the presumptive nominee, and that has taken pundits by surprise. But leaping to the conclusion that the party is abandoning the religious right is foolish.
First of all, Republicans in state office and in Congress are overwhelmingly 'religious right' politicians. There's no sign that vast numbers of religious right Republican officeholders are going to be primaried out of office by nativist Republican rivals. I'm not aware of any!
Second of all, for the past 50 years Republicans have always courted the nativist vote. This isn't a new element in their party. It's just finally been able to capture the nomination.
A far more cogent explanation of Trump's success is charisma. In this cycle, the Republicans offered a clown car full of obviously unqualified candidates. Why should it surprise us when the one charismatic clown - Trump - became the choice of the voters? The fact is that charisma often drives elections far more than the details of public policy. Trump's supporters find him personally magnetic... and after watching a few of the dreadful Republican debates this cycle, I can understand their choice.
First of all, Republicans in state office and in Congress are overwhelmingly 'religious right' politicians. There's no sign that vast numbers of religious right Republican officeholders are going to be primaried out of office by nativist Republican rivals. I'm not aware of any!
Second of all, for the past 50 years Republicans have always courted the nativist vote. This isn't a new element in their party. It's just finally been able to capture the nomination.
A far more cogent explanation of Trump's success is charisma. In this cycle, the Republicans offered a clown car full of obviously unqualified candidates. Why should it surprise us when the one charismatic clown - Trump - became the choice of the voters? The fact is that charisma often drives elections far more than the details of public policy. Trump's supporters find him personally magnetic... and after watching a few of the dreadful Republican debates this cycle, I can understand their choice.
5
The religious right will go back into the shadows and continue to do its work undercutting rights and protections for women, gays and the poor at the state level. That is what they are in fact doing right now. Remember Kim Davis?
21
We can only hope.
3
If Hillary is elected it is certainly the end of honest politics.
If her political machine has enough power to counter the indifference of the voters, this goose is cooked.
Banana republic or representative republic.
November will tell all :)
If her political machine has enough power to counter the indifference of the voters, this goose is cooked.
Banana republic or representative republic.
November will tell all :)
The premise of reporter Posner is mostly false, i.e., that evangelical Christians "enabled" or voted for Trump. Get outside the regularly perused blogs and reading material of the NYT commenters, to the evangelical world (I'm not one), and their writings. There you find an overwhelming distaste, indeed revulsion for the Donald. A conundrum about who to vote for, since they also despise Hillary and Bernie.
As to the surveys in the MSM about evangelicals voting for Trump, it's mostly been disproven. Besides, as any polling or social science organization will tell you, Americans lie about both their religiosity and the degree of piety they possess. Trump has gotten mostly a white nationalist, xenophobic and separately, a disaffected white working class economic based vote. Religion has not played a role.
As to the surveys in the MSM about evangelicals voting for Trump, it's mostly been disproven. Besides, as any polling or social science organization will tell you, Americans lie about both their religiosity and the degree of piety they possess. Trump has gotten mostly a white nationalist, xenophobic and separately, a disaffected white working class economic based vote. Religion has not played a role.
In any discussion of The American Religious Right, I am always reminded of The Gospels, claiming to report the words of Christ himself, Matthew chapter 7, verse 12 and Luke chapter 6, verse 31.
If only.
If only.
The religious right appears to have sold its soul to the devil.
6
These Bible thumping hypocrites impose their religious values on a secular society using government action as their tool. The separation of state and religion can only be accomplished by taking away their tax free status and making their profitable business financially accountable to the well being of their community like all other profitable business. If Trump were able to deliver that promise he would certainly have my vote.
5
Trump exploits and reveals the real weakness of the religious right, which is that while zealots want us to believe that they are Christians doing God's work (and indeed, believe that themselves), what they really are is bigoted, sanctimonious hypocrites.
6
As an evangelical from the 50's and early 60's I remember evangelicalism before it was hijacked and possessed by conservative and fear-based demons aka politicians...what the Bible referred to as 'powers and principalities'. Evangelicalism used to care about sanctuary, refuge, charity, patience, civility and tolerance. The dead zombie it has become bears no resemblance.
1
Do not be naive, the religious right may have lost a battle but their eye is on the long term war ... taking over state and federal governments, creating a christian caliphate. They are not going away.
5
Studies have shown that the process of believing in the supernatural actually suppresses the frontal cortex analytical network of the brain. The studies also show that deliberate exercise of faith reinforces that suppression to a greater degree.
It is amazing to me that religious faith as a phenomenon has managed to barricade itself from reason and get a pass from analytical challenges. Unquestioning is its trump and that's why the religious right is so destructive politically.
It is amazing to me that religious faith as a phenomenon has managed to barricade itself from reason and get a pass from analytical challenges. Unquestioning is its trump and that's why the religious right is so destructive politically.
5
Religion runs on ignorance, superstition, and magical thinking. It is the biggest scam in the history of the world, and has long outlived its place, which was as an explanation of natural phenomena in a pre-scientific age. It has no place in modern politics or in a complex society that runs on science and reason.
8
Is this the end of the religious-right? I certainly hope so - and if Donald Trump is the one who unmasked them - I sincerely thank him.
This group of rigid fundamental thinkers who want to turn this country into a Christian Taliban state have caused so much harm to so many people. If you don't want an abortion, don't have one; if you're not homosexual, don't marry someone of your sex; if you want don't want to use birth control, no problem. Just don't use your belief system to interfere with CIVIL rights of other people.
And while I'm at it - it's way past time to end tax-exemption for religious organizations. Churches, synagogues, mosques (and all other religious organizations) use the services that taxes provide (police, fire fighters, garbage pickup, sewer, water, etc. etc.) - they should be paying their fair share of the costs.
This group of rigid fundamental thinkers who want to turn this country into a Christian Taliban state have caused so much harm to so many people. If you don't want an abortion, don't have one; if you're not homosexual, don't marry someone of your sex; if you want don't want to use birth control, no problem. Just don't use your belief system to interfere with CIVIL rights of other people.
And while I'm at it - it's way past time to end tax-exemption for religious organizations. Churches, synagogues, mosques (and all other religious organizations) use the services that taxes provide (police, fire fighters, garbage pickup, sewer, water, etc. etc.) - they should be paying their fair share of the costs.
8
The religious right is neither.
6
Every time Trump bragged "...and the evangelicals, I'm ahead, way ahead in all the polls for evangelicals, the evangelicals, they love me!" I've been left to wonder. What is the current understanding of the term evangelical in American culture right now and specifically what does it mean to those who use that identifier to pollsters?
It seems to me that it has become a sort of catchall of late in this country and is more commonly a form of shorthand for "like everyone else I know I'm want to be seen as a Christian". What being an evangelist or even being a Christian means to one's daily life is more vague. Hence the ease with which self-described evangelicals morphed into Trump voters. while they may attend church they were never true evangelists to begin with.
I believe that the core of the Christian right is as solid and as inflexible as ever and with few exceptions they have not become Trumpets. While their impact upon our political life will continue its gradual downward trend they are too self assured in their "mission" to melt away just yet. Rather recent events are just revealing their true voter strength.
It seems to me that it has become a sort of catchall of late in this country and is more commonly a form of shorthand for "like everyone else I know I'm want to be seen as a Christian". What being an evangelist or even being a Christian means to one's daily life is more vague. Hence the ease with which self-described evangelicals morphed into Trump voters. while they may attend church they were never true evangelists to begin with.
I believe that the core of the Christian right is as solid and as inflexible as ever and with few exceptions they have not become Trumpets. While their impact upon our political life will continue its gradual downward trend they are too self assured in their "mission" to melt away just yet. Rather recent events are just revealing their true voter strength.
1
Wait, let me see if I can follow the logic of this column. So Evangelicals have lost power, because they're finally deciding to back a winner who at this point has broken records with primary turnout, free media coverage, primary votes cast, and swing state polling?
And then the piece ends with completely unsubstantiated speculation that evangelicals, who could've backed a more evangelical candidate, won't turn out to vote for Trump in the general, because they'd all of a sudden rather prefer Clinton? What are you people smoking, and can you share?
Kudos to the evangelicals for finally showing a willingness to cut a deal. Let the gays marry, forget the bathroom wars, and maybe we can allow the victims of Islamist genocide agaisnt Middle Eastern Christians seek asylum here, while blocking radical Salafi Sunni, who are losing their war agaisnt Assad and abandoning Syria like rats jumping from a sinking ship. Maybe instead of using the DOJ as a bully pulpit agaisnt conservative leaning states, we can have a DOJ that focuses on Hillary's Wall Street cronies, terrorists, and gang bangers. Maybe instead of ridiculing the culture as being a bunch of "bitter clingers," they can have a president who actually respects and loves them and embraces some of what they believe in, like wishing people a Merry Christmas.
The shilling for Hillary and the constant misreading of Trump and the GOP is getting so bad at the NYT, it makes me wonder if they really want him to win.
And then the piece ends with completely unsubstantiated speculation that evangelicals, who could've backed a more evangelical candidate, won't turn out to vote for Trump in the general, because they'd all of a sudden rather prefer Clinton? What are you people smoking, and can you share?
Kudos to the evangelicals for finally showing a willingness to cut a deal. Let the gays marry, forget the bathroom wars, and maybe we can allow the victims of Islamist genocide agaisnt Middle Eastern Christians seek asylum here, while blocking radical Salafi Sunni, who are losing their war agaisnt Assad and abandoning Syria like rats jumping from a sinking ship. Maybe instead of using the DOJ as a bully pulpit agaisnt conservative leaning states, we can have a DOJ that focuses on Hillary's Wall Street cronies, terrorists, and gang bangers. Maybe instead of ridiculing the culture as being a bunch of "bitter clingers," they can have a president who actually respects and loves them and embraces some of what they believe in, like wishing people a Merry Christmas.
The shilling for Hillary and the constant misreading of Trump and the GOP is getting so bad at the NYT, it makes me wonder if they really want him to win.
4
One can only pray it *is* the end of the so called "religious right"...who in many ways were neither truly religious or 'right' in their approach to their fellow man.
True understanding of what Christ taught, through the parables and stories of his deciples are lost on so many who would proudly claim to be 'religious'.
Give me the man who truly does not judge others, who shows true love and compassion towards others, especially those who are not 'the same' as they are.
In short, your actions must emulate Christ, rather than professing to 'know' Christ.
True understanding of what Christ taught, through the parables and stories of his deciples are lost on so many who would proudly claim to be 'religious'.
Give me the man who truly does not judge others, who shows true love and compassion towards others, especially those who are not 'the same' as they are.
In short, your actions must emulate Christ, rather than professing to 'know' Christ.
4
You must live for the joy of the moment, because death will be oblivion no matter what you try to do about it.
There is no joy in making others unhappy.
There is no joy in making others unhappy.
3
There is no 'joy of the moment' sir, just as there is nothing to gain from making others unhappy.
My point, which you have clearly missed, is that those who profess to be followers of Christ do not always do so; and a great many pick and choose what of his teachings they profess to support.
Love, tolerance and respect, with the realization that HE will judge and it is not *your* place to do so. Unless you live those things, you do not know Christ.
My point, which you have clearly missed, is that those who profess to be followers of Christ do not always do so; and a great many pick and choose what of his teachings they profess to support.
Love, tolerance and respect, with the realization that HE will judge and it is not *your* place to do so. Unless you live those things, you do not know Christ.
1
Maybe Trumps success with evangelicals has more to do with an utterance by a slogan of a previously successful candidate, "It's the economy, stupid!"
There will never be an end to those who want certainty.
Some will always want certainty over consistency no matter what reality says.
Trump represents certainty.
Some will always want certainty over consistency no matter what reality says.
Trump represents certainty.
1
Leaders of the religious right and leaders of the GOP are similarly scratching their heads, when in fact they should be looking in the mirror for what they themselves have encouraged.
An inescapable fragment of the religious right fabric has more to do with tribalism, ignorance, fear, anger, judging others with the bludgeon of religious ideology, than just religion as the positive thing it can be - witness Pat Robertson in an exchange with Bill O'Reilly, in which Robertson says that one can not attain heaven unless one is born again (tribal, ignorant, judging), to which O'Reilly mentions mother Teresa, and Roberston says "well, if she has accepted Jesus as her savior": uh, yeah, Pat, she has more than you have, certainly walks the walk.
An inescapable fragment of the religious right fabric has more to do with tribalism, ignorance, fear, anger, judging others with the bludgeon of religious ideology, than just religion as the positive thing it can be - witness Pat Robertson in an exchange with Bill O'Reilly, in which Robertson says that one can not attain heaven unless one is born again (tribal, ignorant, judging), to which O'Reilly mentions mother Teresa, and Roberston says "well, if she has accepted Jesus as her savior": uh, yeah, Pat, she has more than you have, certainly walks the walk.
1
The Bible is not the Constitution, it does not Trump the Constitution. If praying did anything, we’d be living in a theocracy, fortunately, nobody’s listening. If there is a God, she despises religion.
6
Praying does have effect, a bad one. It reinforces the delusion that nature has some kind of empathetic human personality.
5
"Religion poisons everything."
--Christopher Hitchens
--Christopher Hitchens
8
The reason the religious right is dying is that as a voting block they may get Republicans elected to office locally but on the national stage are a boat anchor. Young people especially are turned off by the sanctomonius, loud and nasty version of Christianity they claim to follow, the anti science, anti sex, judgemental and nasty stand of this group has made the GOP anethema to young voters and to anyone to the left of Attila the Hun.
More importantly, I think it is dying because the fundamentalist Christians who were the power behind this, have realized that they were used. The GOP had no intention of creating a Christian nation, their whole intention was the cut taxes on the 1% pro business/anti poor agenda. Some evangelicals have woken up and realized that the "Prosperity Gospel" or "Jesus was a Capitalist" and especially the Ayn Rand attack on the poor, was contradictory to their faith. More importantly, given the economic strata the religious right are in, they have realized that the GOP doesn't care about them economically. As one evangelical preacher, who supports Trump, said "We are electing a president, not a preacher in Chief". They know their economic future is bleak, in large part because of the GOP pushing jobs offshore, and they realize that the GOP only used them.
More importantly, I think it is dying because the fundamentalist Christians who were the power behind this, have realized that they were used. The GOP had no intention of creating a Christian nation, their whole intention was the cut taxes on the 1% pro business/anti poor agenda. Some evangelicals have woken up and realized that the "Prosperity Gospel" or "Jesus was a Capitalist" and especially the Ayn Rand attack on the poor, was contradictory to their faith. More importantly, given the economic strata the religious right are in, they have realized that the GOP doesn't care about them economically. As one evangelical preacher, who supports Trump, said "We are electing a president, not a preacher in Chief". They know their economic future is bleak, in large part because of the GOP pushing jobs offshore, and they realize that the GOP only used them.
3
A significant part of the religious right is nativist and militaristic. They are strong proponents of the Iraq war and blind supporters of Likud, Netanyahu and all the belligerence that they stand for. To continue to earn their votes, the Republican party (of which I am a member) has moved steadily to the right, getting us involved in endless middle-eastern wars, costing us treasure (trillions) and blood (tens of thousands of lives). If the evangelicals shatter over this election, it will be a benefit to America.
5
The things you attribute to the religious right are also true of Hillary. She is a strong believer in military power, a fairly blind supporter of Likud and Netanyahu. She thinks nothing of the deaths of innocent people, sent children back to Honduras to be raped and murdered, and even crowed over the death of Qaddafi - and a more horrible death than his is rarely seen. Pretty blood-thirsty candidate. No wonder people call her a moderate Republican.
2
As a conservative Republican, I will be so happy when the party is focused on politics and policy rather than social issues that are not the business of the federal government. The religious wing of the party even offends and annoys me. I really wish they'd just go away, so we'd all stop looking like Neanderthals to the rest of the country.
10
The federal government is obliged to over-ride state laws that give respect to establishments of religion to assure equal protection of the law.
4
The religious right is neither religious nor right.
2
This is so cute. The religious right will just double down on their hypocritical family values including:
Protecting life, until the moment it's born
Loving their neighbor, as long as the neighbor is white and isn't muslim
Preaching peace, while promoting open carry and assault weapons
Preaching tolerance, except when it comes to people who are gay, trans, Black or, otherwise, doesn't look like them
(when you've doubled down five times in the past ten years...what's that called?).
Protecting life, until the moment it's born
Loving their neighbor, as long as the neighbor is white and isn't muslim
Preaching peace, while promoting open carry and assault weapons
Preaching tolerance, except when it comes to people who are gay, trans, Black or, otherwise, doesn't look like them
(when you've doubled down five times in the past ten years...what's that called?).
5
When you are reduced to arguing about who can use a toilet because you are afraid of attacks by transgender people you have to wonder about the sanity and not just the "religious logic" of these people. Where and when do you think all these people used toilets before? Do you think they just popped up like a jack-in-the-box in the last six weeks? When you make yourself ridiculous to others because you are afraid of bogey men . . .
It is one thing to be religious and socially conservative, it is another thing to think that your fear should be more important than the simple ability of another person to relieve themselves and be left alone! If you all could give but one proven example in the last thirty years of what you fear the most, you might be able to argue your bias. Without facts, the rest of us would prefer to live in a factual world and try to let others do the same. Religiously conservative southerners ought to try it some time. They might find that others will think of them as reasonable and not simple bigots inspired by "God."
It is one thing to be religious and socially conservative, it is another thing to think that your fear should be more important than the simple ability of another person to relieve themselves and be left alone! If you all could give but one proven example in the last thirty years of what you fear the most, you might be able to argue your bias. Without facts, the rest of us would prefer to live in a factual world and try to let others do the same. Religiously conservative southerners ought to try it some time. They might find that others will think of them as reasonable and not simple bigots inspired by "God."
5
You hit the nail on the head. Fear is central in so much religious thinking.
2
Selling religion as an antidote to fear has to be the greatest scam of all time.
2
The fact is the Religious Right was never far from the political gutter. The movement began with Jerry Falwell, whose initial outrage was desegregation in the South. The subsequent history has been a matter of an accretion of further outrages, much like a pearl forms around an initial irritant. in the process, the words change, the primary grievances shift, but they all are of a piece, and built around a single agony: American society does not revolve around their biases and prejudices, and in most cases, the law itself has disallowed them.
Trump is not that far afield. Once one realizes the Religious Right was never a lofty, high-minded element of the Republican Party, Trump's appeal makes much more sense. The question is not whether the religious right will still exist -- will racial resentment, anger at gay and reproductive rights disappear? -- but whether the Republican Party will continue to try to hitch their electoral wagon to them.
Trump, from that perspective, may merely be proof of how flexible they are. As long as you give them something to hate, and it's the right things to hate, they'll be around, in the front row.
But as I say, the question is how much longer the Republican party,l especially at the national level, can continue to afford this increasingly antiquated resentful voting block.
Trump is not that far afield. Once one realizes the Religious Right was never a lofty, high-minded element of the Republican Party, Trump's appeal makes much more sense. The question is not whether the religious right will still exist -- will racial resentment, anger at gay and reproductive rights disappear? -- but whether the Republican Party will continue to try to hitch their electoral wagon to them.
Trump, from that perspective, may merely be proof of how flexible they are. As long as you give them something to hate, and it's the right things to hate, they'll be around, in the front row.
But as I say, the question is how much longer the Republican party,l especially at the national level, can continue to afford this increasingly antiquated resentful voting block.
2
The claim to know what God thinks is specious no matter who makes it, or what the alleged thought of God is. That is why the first amendment effectively denies Congress the power to lend the weight of government to support any such claim.
It is just coincidence that this policy enforces the Mosaic commandment against taking God's name in vain.
It is just coincidence that this policy enforces the Mosaic commandment against taking God's name in vain.
1
They might not go away quietly, but as their older members are dying off, they're not being replaced by an equal number of millennials. Many in the younger generation have been turned off by their hateful, unChristian values. Hence, the rise of the "nones," coming just in the nick of time.
2
The paradox of the "RR" is that they love the old testament, while denying the validity of most of the lessons of the new (e.g. overturning the tables of the money changers, the good Samaritan, etc.).
They are also most adamant that Heaven is a far better place than Earth, yet worship accumulating unequal non-transferable wealth, then spend and fight to put off going there as long as possible.
They are also most adamant that Heaven is a far better place than Earth, yet worship accumulating unequal non-transferable wealth, then spend and fight to put off going there as long as possible.
4
At one time I was a Republican. Then the "religious" right (read hypocrites) took over the party. It was an easy shift for me to change to being a Democrat, because of the inclusiveness of their policies. In a country founded on religious freedom, how did we ever allow the Christian fundamentalists to have a say? Anyone who doesn't understand the importance of this needs only to look at one of the other fundamentalist religions--radical islamism.
6
The religious right has not changed. It is the same now as it was 40 years ago. The religious left has simply become more and more secular until it has almost disappeared. The religious right's power came from block voting against certain candidates. Trump broke up the block, but it will be back in the midterms and local elections unchanged.
Evangelicals for Trump are like the Israelites in the desert that need time to worship a "golden calf" before they realize that their idolatry is far from God's plan.
I hope, as do many other Christians, that our brethren who refer to themselves as "evangelicals" will eventually come around. November is more than "40 days and 40 nights" from now.
I hope, as do many other Christians, that our brethren who refer to themselves as "evangelicals" will eventually come around. November is more than "40 days and 40 nights" from now.
3
The religious right is neither religious or right.
6
Is This the End of the Religious Right?
Let's hope.
Let's hope.
5
I do hope this is the end of the religious right and that the movement goes the way of all flesh. I'm sick and tired of stupidity and bigotry in the name of God.
4
Well, the chickens have come home to roost. Trump is appealing to the basic personal and cultural values of the Christian right. Just analyze the issues that appeal to the Trump demographic; Rid of the pesky southern invaders, those of a non Jesus centric religion..that is a no brainer, etc
3
There's an old Irish saying (in Gaelic): "I swear by the gods my people swear by." What else would they do? Even those who withdrew and lived as ascetics and hermits swore by the Gods of their cribs. To do otherwise meant exclusion, expulsion, and often, a lot worse.
When post-Reformation Europe erupted in slaughter, the cause was more a matter of temporal power than doctrinal purity. (When a bishop turned Lutheran, his revenues no longer went to the Emperor or the Pope; and if the bishop were an elector, he might even help to depose the Hapsburg dynasty.)
What the GOP does with religion is small stuff compared to the horrors of the Thirty Years War or to the barbarities of ISIS. But we know better and we expect better. The commitment of the GOP to ignorance and superstition is dragging us down into a new hell, where its more important whether we stand or sit to pee than it is to respect all our neighbors.
When post-Reformation Europe erupted in slaughter, the cause was more a matter of temporal power than doctrinal purity. (When a bishop turned Lutheran, his revenues no longer went to the Emperor or the Pope; and if the bishop were an elector, he might even help to depose the Hapsburg dynasty.)
What the GOP does with religion is small stuff compared to the horrors of the Thirty Years War or to the barbarities of ISIS. But we know better and we expect better. The commitment of the GOP to ignorance and superstition is dragging us down into a new hell, where its more important whether we stand or sit to pee than it is to respect all our neighbors.
3
If evangelicals had not voted G.W. Bush into office, we would not have had a war in Iraq. Thousands of people would be alive today, including women and children killed in that war. We might also not be seeing the massive instability in the whole middle eastern region and the U.S. would have needed to find another way to deal with Saddam in Iraq. There is also the little matter of one trillion to two trillion (who knows exactly how much?) that was flushed down the drain in Iraq in a nation of people that, in the main, did not want us there and who suspect our motives even when doing good.
How do you reconcile religious beliefs with supporting an unnecessary, "war of choice"? Being a minister, particularly a southern Baptist minister, means never having to say you are sorry.
Deep religious involvement in politics is a huge mistake. In the process, both are harmed, but religion is damaged more completely.
Doug Terry
How do you reconcile religious beliefs with supporting an unnecessary, "war of choice"? Being a minister, particularly a southern Baptist minister, means never having to say you are sorry.
Deep religious involvement in politics is a huge mistake. In the process, both are harmed, but religion is damaged more completely.
Doug Terry
7
Subtract the evangelicals and the angry (aging) white males from the Republican base and little remains except a bunch of oil companies and miscellaneous 1%ers looking for a tax cut.
5
There are over 7 billion people in the world. This means that there are over 7 billion different sets of personal beliefs. Is there any way accommodate this diversity?
1
One of the most destructive effects of the Religious Right's political clout has been their war on sex. Their efforts to mandate abstinence-only sex education and their war on women's health care centers has resulted in millions of children being born to women who are unprepared to parent and/or too poor to care for them. They then put into power only those politicians who promised to vote against increasing funding for programs which helped poor families obtain adequate food, education, and health care. The sooner the "Religious" Right loses its political clout, the better for the poor of America.
7
Respectfully and humbly many evangelicals believe the "prosperity gospel" is heresy so please don't tar us all with the same brush. Some live out the teachings of Jesus - being the first to donate/go to countries where disaster has occurred to lend assistance, giving to the poor, building schools and hospitals. Many non believers help us greatly so we claim no kind of moral superiority. Nor do we seek to forcibly convert anyone to our way of thinking. We would like however to be able to present our views and let people make up their own minds. The very thing most of these posts want is for their views to be the only ones taught/tolerated in the public arena. We respect your views but like it no less than you when they are forced on us with the threat of reprisals if we don't fall into line with the group think prevalent in our society. What we are most concerned about is that the Judeo Christian foundations on which our republic were built are being torn down with abandon. No other world view would have been able to write our founding documents, (I paraphrase) "We hold these truths to be self evident -being endowed by our Creator with certain inalienable rights, to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" With no Creator, from whence do we draw our rights? Absent a moral law giver, whence comes morality? Someone said "Piety begat prosperity and then the daughter divorced the mother" The Roman Empire collapsed from within, we fear ours is about to follow suit.
To any Evangelicals out there who claim that the US is a Christian Nation" founded on "Biblical Truth":
Get out your copy of the Constitution and count how many time the word "Christian" appears. Now do the same for God, Bible and Religion. If I'm not mistaken, Religion is the only one that will show up; once in Article 6, where any religious test for holding office is prohibited and once in the First Amendment where infringement of the freedom of religion is prohibited.
Now read a few books on the history of the Constitutional Convention, and take note of how hard the Framers worked to keep any religious restrictions out of the final Document.
You may also take note that the "Creator" is mentioned in the Declaration of Independence, but there is no explanation of who or what that "Creator" might be.
Now, explain to me how the United States was formed as a "Christian Nation".
Get out your copy of the Constitution and count how many time the word "Christian" appears. Now do the same for God, Bible and Religion. If I'm not mistaken, Religion is the only one that will show up; once in Article 6, where any religious test for holding office is prohibited and once in the First Amendment where infringement of the freedom of religion is prohibited.
Now read a few books on the history of the Constitutional Convention, and take note of how hard the Framers worked to keep any religious restrictions out of the final Document.
You may also take note that the "Creator" is mentioned in the Declaration of Independence, but there is no explanation of who or what that "Creator" might be.
Now, explain to me how the United States was formed as a "Christian Nation".
7
"a constituency that has made conservative religious values, sexual purity and Bible-driven policy the cornerstone of its politics"
This is drivel; it is not mere reporting. The key phrases are not descriptions.
1. What are "conservative religious values'?
Hundreds of religions sell thousands of god stories. Hundreds of variations on "Christianity" alone--which is neither trademarked nor copyrighted. And what makes them "conservative"? Conserve what? Or is "Conservative" a mere name--given to anything you like.
2. What is "sexual purity"? Generic purity is simply unmixed--unadulterated? Is sexual purity then homosex? Is it sex without adultery? Value "purity" means "without fault or guilt"--presuming a catalog of faults and wrongs. There is no such thing as guiltless sex without it. So what exactly is that code?
3. "Bible-driven" The Bible advocates killing homosexuals--even if it means tremendous collateral damage. Is that what Evangelicals advocate? It also prohibits "onanism"--masturbation and maybe even coitus interruptus. But the Bible is silent about abortion. And no one believes all killing is wrong--antibiotics, herbicide, insecticide, even homicide are often justified--as is killing food animals.
The "reporter" should reconsider reporting.
This is drivel; it is not mere reporting. The key phrases are not descriptions.
1. What are "conservative religious values'?
Hundreds of religions sell thousands of god stories. Hundreds of variations on "Christianity" alone--which is neither trademarked nor copyrighted. And what makes them "conservative"? Conserve what? Or is "Conservative" a mere name--given to anything you like.
2. What is "sexual purity"? Generic purity is simply unmixed--unadulterated? Is sexual purity then homosex? Is it sex without adultery? Value "purity" means "without fault or guilt"--presuming a catalog of faults and wrongs. There is no such thing as guiltless sex without it. So what exactly is that code?
3. "Bible-driven" The Bible advocates killing homosexuals--even if it means tremendous collateral damage. Is that what Evangelicals advocate? It also prohibits "onanism"--masturbation and maybe even coitus interruptus. But the Bible is silent about abortion. And no one believes all killing is wrong--antibiotics, herbicide, insecticide, even homicide are often justified--as is killing food animals.
The "reporter" should reconsider reporting.
2
It would be about time for the right wing "Christians" to exit the politial scene. For instance, like other religeous groups, these churches enjoy enormous tax advantages yet, they are in many cases Real Estate Investment Trusts where they place millions of dollars out of sight of the IRS. Not convinced? Check out the mega-churches sitting on several acres of untaxable property.
Then, of course, the pastors of these churches spew political propaganda in favor of right-wing conservative causes and candidates. Not only is this a violation of their tax code privileges, they candidates and politicians they support do not themelves support the teachings of Jesus regaring empathy and compassion for the poor, the old, the sick, the disabled ... Instead, the conservatives they support are pushing to end Medicare and Social Security with the conservative code word description: "entitlements." ENTITLEMENTS?!?!?!?
These extremists are all for 'entitlements" for Wall Street's Banks-Too-Big-To-Fail, the insurance industry whose dedication to shareholder value cancels out patient care and patient rights, Big Pharma with its price gouging policies, Big Energy whose extraction companies are befoulwing our air and water, and, of course, the military industrial complex. This last group works to create military weapon systems that the Pentago has yet to ask for, including the much troubled F-35 Joint Strike Fighter. Misplaced faith to be sure.
Which entitlements should be killed now?
Then, of course, the pastors of these churches spew political propaganda in favor of right-wing conservative causes and candidates. Not only is this a violation of their tax code privileges, they candidates and politicians they support do not themelves support the teachings of Jesus regaring empathy and compassion for the poor, the old, the sick, the disabled ... Instead, the conservatives they support are pushing to end Medicare and Social Security with the conservative code word description: "entitlements." ENTITLEMENTS?!?!?!?
These extremists are all for 'entitlements" for Wall Street's Banks-Too-Big-To-Fail, the insurance industry whose dedication to shareholder value cancels out patient care and patient rights, Big Pharma with its price gouging policies, Big Energy whose extraction companies are befoulwing our air and water, and, of course, the military industrial complex. This last group works to create military weapon systems that the Pentago has yet to ask for, including the much troubled F-35 Joint Strike Fighter. Misplaced faith to be sure.
Which entitlements should be killed now?
6
Why are so-called religious organizations exempt from many taxes? Who decides which ones have this privilege? Doesn't this violate the First Amendment?
9
It may be because they are "not for profit" organizations ... oddly that does not stop them from paying their celebrity pastors big bucks and providing them with infinite expense accounts ...
1
Politics still allows for strange bedfellows.
Trump has struck a nerve.
A nerve that many Evangelicals strongly felt.
There will be a new candidate in a few years who unites them once again.
Trump has struck a nerve.
A nerve that many Evangelicals strongly felt.
There will be a new candidate in a few years who unites them once again.
1
Look at this picture...old, white people praying to whom, and for what?
Amazing.
Amazing.
2
We're suppose to have a separation of church and state in this country, but yet some of the most controversial issues that have found their way into the legislative process and the judicial system revolve around issues addressed, rightly or wrongly, in a book which fosters religious beliefs.
Regardless of what my beliefs (if any) are, do I have the right to impose them on others? The same goes for what "I" consider to be morally correct. Should my personal prejudices dictate you are allowed to do?
Regardless of what my beliefs (if any) are, do I have the right to impose them on others? The same goes for what "I" consider to be morally correct. Should my personal prejudices dictate you are allowed to do?
2
These folks embrace the Right because they feel they are righteous. In their hubris, they have forgotten the parable of the Pharisee and the publican.
1
One can only hope so!
1
The GOP and the religious right might seem like strange bedfellows at a glance, but their alliance has made sense if you think of it this way: both love to talk about "freedom," which they construe as "freedom of the privileged to wield ever greater privilege over their lesser neighbors."
There's not much difference between the "freedom" of megachurch Christians to impose their will upon the rest of us – including, I might add, legions of various other Christians who are not reactionaries – and the "freedom" of the wealthy to sit upon their piles of gold like Beowulf's dragon. Both reflect a deep-seated contempt for anything resembling social cohesion.
There's not much difference between the "freedom" of megachurch Christians to impose their will upon the rest of us – including, I might add, legions of various other Christians who are not reactionaries – and the "freedom" of the wealthy to sit upon their piles of gold like Beowulf's dragon. Both reflect a deep-seated contempt for anything resembling social cohesion.
3
Finally! Even God must be sick of their hypocrisy!
5
It's the utter inflexibility of the evangelicals that is now pushing them to the margins. Faith comes first for them, and science and logic be damned.
How ironic that they don't look much different than the Islamic extremists who are similarly rigid, and dangerous.
Faith, as a purely theological concept, has no place in political discourse. By its nature, faith is divorced from science. It's fine that people have faith and necessary for them. That does not give them the right to insist that the rest of us fall in line or face eternal damnation.
How ironic that they don't look much different than the Islamic extremists who are similarly rigid, and dangerous.
Faith, as a purely theological concept, has no place in political discourse. By its nature, faith is divorced from science. It's fine that people have faith and necessary for them. That does not give them the right to insist that the rest of us fall in line or face eternal damnation.
2
"It's the utter inflexibility of the evangelicals that is now pushing them to the margins."
It's not possible to be flexible when you're obeying the will of God.
It's not possible to be flexible when you're obeying the will of God.
2
The religion industry will never die as long as fools continue to believe in the supernatural. Sheed will always line up to be fleeced by the likes of the Rev. Creflo Dollar and Joyce Myers Ministries. After all, how would these paragons of virtue manage a new Cessna bizjet every two years? (They need them to get around to spread the gospel, don't you know?)
Keep those big seed money checks coming in - we have plenty of magic hankies and blessed water packets just sitting in the warehouse.
Keep those big seed money checks coming in - we have plenty of magic hankies and blessed water packets just sitting in the warehouse.
3
The religious right has played an important role in social life for millenia. The religious right were the ones Jesus railed against in the gospels. The current crop is just too stupid to recognize themselves when they look in the mirror.
4
Time to revoke the tax exempt status of these political/religious "churches".
6
Christians are not the only humans that have "morals and standards" though those words are open to interpretation.
It appears to most Americans that the Christian/religious right wants to destroy government as it is now except where my life/style, my body and my mind are involved.
Their model for this is a current hate group called ISIS.
Christians have bombed women's centers, abused, beaten and KILLED Americans that are not white, heterosexual or women that follow their rules.
You think this is too much, that the Christian right has a right to their beliefs and values and hate - YES, they do, but only until their defense of those values comes at the cost to our Constitution and our Freedoms!!
You can think and believe anything in your mind but when you do it out loud with ACTIONS then you have crossed the line.
It appears to most Americans that the Christian/religious right wants to destroy government as it is now except where my life/style, my body and my mind are involved.
Their model for this is a current hate group called ISIS.
Christians have bombed women's centers, abused, beaten and KILLED Americans that are not white, heterosexual or women that follow their rules.
You think this is too much, that the Christian right has a right to their beliefs and values and hate - YES, they do, but only until their defense of those values comes at the cost to our Constitution and our Freedoms!!
You can think and believe anything in your mind but when you do it out loud with ACTIONS then you have crossed the line.
5
I've always been torn on what to think when someone makes a sign of their religious conviction. Athletes who kneel and look upwards or cross themselves after a good play. Lutherans and Catholics who wear ashes on Ash Wednesday.
Those who are connected strongly with their religious office such as nuns, priests and orthodox Jews and rabbis are wearing an official garment, of course.
But to what purpose do people perform these acts in public otherwise? Am I to think better of them because they are religious? Are they broadcasting something that should be privately held?
Am I wrong in feeling a bit awkward when there is a public prayer and I don't genuflect and hold my hands in reverence while everyone else around me does, most I'm sure no more religious than I am?
All religions carry a certain degree of cult-ness to them.
If a person obtains comfort and security with their devotion, wonderful.
If some priest or pastor 'guides' me in forming an opinion on how to act or think about a certain social issue or worse yet whom to vote for, then religion has become too controlling.
Those who are connected strongly with their religious office such as nuns, priests and orthodox Jews and rabbis are wearing an official garment, of course.
But to what purpose do people perform these acts in public otherwise? Am I to think better of them because they are religious? Are they broadcasting something that should be privately held?
Am I wrong in feeling a bit awkward when there is a public prayer and I don't genuflect and hold my hands in reverence while everyone else around me does, most I'm sure no more religious than I am?
All religions carry a certain degree of cult-ness to them.
If a person obtains comfort and security with their devotion, wonderful.
If some priest or pastor 'guides' me in forming an opinion on how to act or think about a certain social issue or worse yet whom to vote for, then religion has become too controlling.
5
Reading a New York Times analysis of the "Religious Right" is like reading a 1920 National Geographic article about a native peoples. "See how primitive they are! Marvel at their curious religious rites! How could they possibly be so backward?"
Today our treatment of differing races, immigrants and LGBT people has changed from 50 years ago. Perhaps one day we can look forward to a world in which presumptive thought leaders can treat persons with sincerely held, historically based religious beliefs with respect. Perhaps in fifty years time the New York Times editorial board will look back in embarrassment at editorials that treated a massive group of human beings as a freakshow.
Today our treatment of differing races, immigrants and LGBT people has changed from 50 years ago. Perhaps one day we can look forward to a world in which presumptive thought leaders can treat persons with sincerely held, historically based religious beliefs with respect. Perhaps in fifty years time the New York Times editorial board will look back in embarrassment at editorials that treated a massive group of human beings as a freakshow.
It's a freakshow.
4
The "religious" right has forsaken the teachings of Jesus in exchange for dogma of self-righteousness and petty politics. Their actions speak louder than words and exposes the inconsistencies of their positions with their espoused theology. Bad theology mixed with bad politics is a toxic, hypocritical brew. Ultimately, they are making their own "Kool-Aid" and serving up to the GOP by the gallons. RIP GOP!
The exemption of religious organizations from taxation is premised, among other things, on the notion that Church and State are separate and taxation could be used as a form of persecution. What happens when that wall begins to break down? It seems high time to begin looking seriously at some form of taxation for religious organizations in this country.
5
Money quote here: "an evangelical subculture that has increasingly become enamored with the prosperity, or health and wealth, gospel."
That so-called "prosperity gospel" is antithetical to real Christianity--which calls for sacrificial love and placing the needs of others before our own. But it aligns perfectly with the radically individualist, consumption-obsessed Cult of 'Murica which, when you boil it all down, is what many Trumpkins actually worship.
That so-called "prosperity gospel" is antithetical to real Christianity--which calls for sacrificial love and placing the needs of others before our own. But it aligns perfectly with the radically individualist, consumption-obsessed Cult of 'Murica which, when you boil it all down, is what many Trumpkins actually worship.
10
How sad that a country founded on choice is forcing people to accept religious principles as political doctrine and their personal selection for important Governmental posts. Having a moral compass is one thing, and appreciating family values is another, but when the religious right claims these principles as their own personal invention, there is a real problem with America. These are not exclusively Christian concepts, either. They are fundamental to most religions, yet Christians claim ownership.
I believe the original idea was to have representatives from the various areas gather to represent their constituents, not to battle for the position on TV slinging vicious attacks about each other. If the idea it to dig up the dirt on your opponent and to expose their weakness, then we have arrived, but are these attacked considered Christian? WWBD – What Would Buddha Do? OR the Dali Lama?
It’s too bad… this used to be a nice place. Look at what forcing our opinions on each other has done?
I believe the original idea was to have representatives from the various areas gather to represent their constituents, not to battle for the position on TV slinging vicious attacks about each other. If the idea it to dig up the dirt on your opponent and to expose their weakness, then we have arrived, but are these attacked considered Christian? WWBD – What Would Buddha Do? OR the Dali Lama?
It’s too bad… this used to be a nice place. Look at what forcing our opinions on each other has done?
11
Evangelicals, like the rest of us, have to earn a living, and can't live on faith alone. when they lose jobs and feel economically insecure, they too will respond to Trump's promise to bring jobs back to the country. all other cultural matters like which bathrooms to use, will appear like fringe issues at this point. why does their flocking to Trump pose such a conundrum for commentators and talking heads?
2
Evangelical Republicans:
hypocrisy |hiˈpäkrisē|
noun (pl. hypocrisies)
the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform; pretense.
hypocrisy |hiˈpäkrisē|
noun (pl. hypocrisies)
the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform; pretense.
4
The floodgates of NYT readers decrying the "religious right" was predictably opened with this column.
What's amusing is how sanctimonious ( and selective) the critics are in their own way.
How smug it is to make generalizations that our nation's ills are largely due to the religious right, a smaller and smaller part of the electorate.
As the power of the religious right fades, so does its blame for our ills. But I won't hold my breath waiting for progressives, be they faithful Judeo-Christians, agnostics or atheists, to acknowledge this.
Nor will I hold my breath waiting for non-Muslim progressives to speak out against the ever-increasing demands by Muslims that non-Muslims accommodate their own faith's tenets ( many of such tenets running completely against the progressive and LGBT agenda)
Enjoy bashing the religious right, my progressive friends. But you better be making plans to find some other evil force to look down upon.
Just make sure you don't "offend" anyone or you'd lose your progressive social justice credentials and be called bigots or haters.
What's amusing is how sanctimonious ( and selective) the critics are in their own way.
How smug it is to make generalizations that our nation's ills are largely due to the religious right, a smaller and smaller part of the electorate.
As the power of the religious right fades, so does its blame for our ills. But I won't hold my breath waiting for progressives, be they faithful Judeo-Christians, agnostics or atheists, to acknowledge this.
Nor will I hold my breath waiting for non-Muslim progressives to speak out against the ever-increasing demands by Muslims that non-Muslims accommodate their own faith's tenets ( many of such tenets running completely against the progressive and LGBT agenda)
Enjoy bashing the religious right, my progressive friends. But you better be making plans to find some other evil force to look down upon.
Just make sure you don't "offend" anyone or you'd lose your progressive social justice credentials and be called bigots or haters.
2
There is only one rule in Christianity (and any other religion). It is, "Love your Brothers and Sisters." If you do that, all else follows.
Most Christians I know do not practice that one rule, to any significant extent. Sadly, it seems that many in other religions don't either (e.g., Islam's ISIS and Taliban, et al).
People are beginning to see the hypocrisy of that.
Perhaps a better title for this article would be, "The End of Religion," period.
Most Christians I know do not practice that one rule, to any significant extent. Sadly, it seems that many in other religions don't either (e.g., Islam's ISIS and Taliban, et al).
People are beginning to see the hypocrisy of that.
Perhaps a better title for this article would be, "The End of Religion," period.
2
As an atheist and a progressive, I for many years tolerated my fathers unflinching allegiance to Limbaugh, Hannity, Fox " News ", etc. I fully expected it to get worse when he retired and devoted a much greater share of his time to the local church. Instead of doubling down on conservative ideology, though, he actually began to question it. Soon, he went from volunteering at a local soup kitchen to running it, and doubling the number of families it serves. He now spends several months a year in Appalachia, working to improve local health practices. I'm still an atheist but I think finding religion is the best thing that could have happened to him.
4
Your article does not differentiate between the goals of the parishioners and that of the pastors. The goal of the people in the pews is easy - a pathway to G-d's view and what they believe is righteousness . The pastor must find a way to keep funding going. That is where the inconsistency of Donald Trump must drive the Pastors insane. The sure money makers of the past may not be of the future . Too bad. Maybe they should take their sandals off and go for a walk/
2
It was a conservative south strategy to get religious rights votes, started by Reagan the W exploited completely, recall the debates and his actions later. Happy that the reality is getting precedence over this irrelevant issue and Trump has a role in it too.
2
Five little words: Jesus Christ is my personal savior.
Those five words will get anyone in the door of these political/religious cultist and the practiced con artist T rump couldn't do it. G.W.Bush was successful at saying what they wanted to hear and they turned out in droves to give US the disaster that was him.
I guess that even they might be wise to that much hypocrisy.
Religious fundamentalism was given a big boost in the 30's and 40's by the reigning oligarchs of the day as a counter to the New Deal. This gospel basically ignored the words of Jesus to insist that rugged individualism was holier than community and social sacrifice. Thy brother's keeper be damned.
We can only hope that their influence will be a lot less monolithic from this point on.
I never understood how people opposed to abortion could be so for war and the death penalty.
Those five words will get anyone in the door of these political/religious cultist and the practiced con artist T rump couldn't do it. G.W.Bush was successful at saying what they wanted to hear and they turned out in droves to give US the disaster that was him.
I guess that even they might be wise to that much hypocrisy.
Religious fundamentalism was given a big boost in the 30's and 40's by the reigning oligarchs of the day as a counter to the New Deal. This gospel basically ignored the words of Jesus to insist that rugged individualism was holier than community and social sacrifice. Thy brother's keeper be damned.
We can only hope that their influence will be a lot less monolithic from this point on.
I never understood how people opposed to abortion could be so for war and the death penalty.
6
"Is This the End of the Religious Right?" Oh God, I hope so.
No, I don't think it is, but their electoral power is waning - for now - and the reason for this is a combination of multiple factors such as 1) The internet and social media have made people more aware of the world and enhanced their sense of empathy. As Mark Twain said in "Innocents Abroad": "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime." The Internet permits travel from the comfort of home or Starbucks. 2) The economic situation is actually fundamentally dire more by the advancement of automation than anything else and when your future is at stake, you worry about how you are going to survive and raise a family much more than socially conservative issues like transgender bathrooms, abortion, same-sex marriage, and porn.
No, I don't think it is, but their electoral power is waning - for now - and the reason for this is a combination of multiple factors such as 1) The internet and social media have made people more aware of the world and enhanced their sense of empathy. As Mark Twain said in "Innocents Abroad": "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime." The Internet permits travel from the comfort of home or Starbucks. 2) The economic situation is actually fundamentally dire more by the advancement of automation than anything else and when your future is at stake, you worry about how you are going to survive and raise a family much more than socially conservative issues like transgender bathrooms, abortion, same-sex marriage, and porn.
5
"Is This the End of the Religious Right?" One can certainly hope so.
5
White evangelicals were the folks who railed loudly against Martin Luther King Jr and the Civil Rights Movement. Their ideology has always been based on bigotry and resentment. They just conveniently cloak it with the Bible. After all, their southern Christian forebears also used the Bible to justify slavery.
So it was perfectly predictable that they flocked to the GOP (along with the whole South) as the democrats "betrayed" them by embracing civil rights. The stark racial political divide within evangelical Christians speaks for itself.
White evangelicals helped the GOP dominate presidential elections for decades but thankfully it's over. Obama proved that you don't need to pander to these voters to win the presidency easily, even twice.
So it was perfectly predictable that they flocked to the GOP (along with the whole South) as the democrats "betrayed" them by embracing civil rights. The stark racial political divide within evangelical Christians speaks for itself.
White evangelicals helped the GOP dominate presidential elections for decades but thankfully it's over. Obama proved that you don't need to pander to these voters to win the presidency easily, even twice.
10
Is this the end of the power of the Religious Right or simply a change in demographics. The Religious Right resides to a great degree in rural Southern and Midwestern states where you can put your head in the sand because not much has changed in the last 50 years except the loss of factory jobs. Culture spreads slowly in those places, but it has not kept its Rip Van Winkle feel forever. Modern media permeates those areas and at the same time the kids leave for the big city.
The cities are more liberal because their citizens live with people who are not all homogenous like in rural hamlets. Whether you agree with multi-cultural values, you can't ignore them in the real world in which most of us live. I suspect the demise of the Religious Right is just that spread of knowledge. They may be small-minded hypocrites as others have said, but it is mostly out of ignorance not mean-spiritedness.
As they enter the 21st Century, they will have to square their religious beliefs with reality or chose to live apart like the Amish or some Mennonites. It is certainly possible to do, but how sad for our country to lose out on so much potential.
The cities are more liberal because their citizens live with people who are not all homogenous like in rural hamlets. Whether you agree with multi-cultural values, you can't ignore them in the real world in which most of us live. I suspect the demise of the Religious Right is just that spread of knowledge. They may be small-minded hypocrites as others have said, but it is mostly out of ignorance not mean-spiritedness.
As they enter the 21st Century, they will have to square their religious beliefs with reality or chose to live apart like the Amish or some Mennonites. It is certainly possible to do, but how sad for our country to lose out on so much potential.
3
It always has seemed rather odd to me that that the omnipotent, omnipresent creator of the universe would inspire his followers to focus so intently-and to the near exclusion of any of his teachings and proscriptions-on such political matters as how old his creation actually is, who uses what restroom, how store clerks greet their customers in December and other such trivia.
8
As Trump's ascent so clearly demonstrates, the large majority of the religious right are just bigots and hypocrites hiding behind their supposed piety. The fundamentalist Christian right wing (and yes it is virtually exclusively Christian - you can't foist this one on Muslims or other religions) uses religion as their way to enforce their retrograde views on "the others" in a socially defensible way. The sooner this country purges religious influence from our political process entirely, the sooner we will advance as a nation. Religion has been the yoke to control populations since the beginning of recorded history, and it is depressing that in this day and age so many Americans still feel there is a use for Bronze-age fictions in daily life.
10
If the Evangelicals will split the Republican Party this is good news. I am an evangelical which means I'm not fiscally conservative. I abhor the prosperity gospel and I think it is thisclose to being heretical. The Bible speaks plainly about immigrants and the poor.
I have long tired of the elite, fiscally conservative upper-class Republicans leading evangelicals to vote their way with policies and laws that favor the rich while mocking many evangelicals' socially conservative stances.
I left the Republican Party years ago. I don't think the hate-filled rhetoric and anti-poor policies represents the gospel of Jesus. That's my bottom line.
I have long tired of the elite, fiscally conservative upper-class Republicans leading evangelicals to vote their way with policies and laws that favor the rich while mocking many evangelicals' socially conservative stances.
I left the Republican Party years ago. I don't think the hate-filled rhetoric and anti-poor policies represents the gospel of Jesus. That's my bottom line.
2
Yes, it is the end of the religious right. Trump's job (for now) is to convince them that they remain, not only relevant, but critical to this election and the country.
Trump the iconoclast is breaking down all the old idols, and that includes certain voting groups. There is no business-as-usual this time around, and that is what is attracting so many to his efforts. The majority have had it with the establishment on all sides, we are sick and tired of corruption in our government, we want an even break. Another Bush or Clinton ain't gonna cut it this time (if you haven't noticed), now is the time to remove the old guard.
Trump the iconoclast is breaking down all the old idols, and that includes certain voting groups. There is no business-as-usual this time around, and that is what is attracting so many to his efforts. The majority have had it with the establishment on all sides, we are sick and tired of corruption in our government, we want an even break. Another Bush or Clinton ain't gonna cut it this time (if you haven't noticed), now is the time to remove the old guard.
Any correlation to the drop in church attendance as the religious right became synonymous with the Republican Party?
1
Thank you for the accompanying photo. It shows these people for what they are: white; mostly old, with a few dumb looking teenagers who have been brain-washed since their first ski trip into believing they are superior; and sleepy-- almost hypnotized.
2
Evangelicals and other religious groups supporting the Republican Party aren’t following the teachings of God; they are ignoring God’s purpose for He knew we would be confronted with difficult times.
Religion is having the faith to believe in things that can’t be touched or seen; that our existence has a purpose; having the firm belief we can improve our behavior; that we are defeating God’s purpose when Evangelicals and other religious groups in support the Republican Party hypocritically make use of their beliefs as a tool to gain money and power.
Religion is having the faith to believe in things that can’t be touched or seen; that our existence has a purpose; having the firm belief we can improve our behavior; that we are defeating God’s purpose when Evangelicals and other religious groups in support the Republican Party hypocritically make use of their beliefs as a tool to gain money and power.
There is another problem with the "Christian" right (or "moral majority" as the late Mr. Falwell called them): the overwhelming hypocrisy of televangelists, lobbyists, and Republican "Christian" politicians has been on display for decades. Consider that the director of the "family foundation" lobbying group throwing stones at gay marriage not only molested his sisters, but had two cheating cheater accounts. And the list goes on and on and on.
Clearly, religion has been exploited for the personal gain of insincere liars. And now many of them are supporting Trump ....
Clearly, religion has been exploited for the personal gain of insincere liars. And now many of them are supporting Trump ....
8
The religious right's blinders wearing fools don't see that their form of religious shenanigans are legitimate BECAUSE of the separation of church and state? Can one of these delusional persons truly say that they are not free to practice their brand of religion, that they're kept from going to church? Their righteous indignation is sickening.
4
How are readers to judge the significance of a movement when there are only two numbers in the entire tome, and one of them simply demonstrates the evangelicals' cohesion? What are the demographics, or the membership trends that suggest a resolution of the headline?
The problem with this kind of qualitative journalism is that it fails to provide explanatory context, and usually overstates significance. I blame the writing And passive editing that lets writers get away with it.
Is this the end of Insightful Journalism?
The problem with this kind of qualitative journalism is that it fails to provide explanatory context, and usually overstates significance. I blame the writing And passive editing that lets writers get away with it.
Is this the end of Insightful Journalism?
2
Trump can regain the support of religious conservatives by changing his logo from "Make America Great Again" to "Make America Hate Again". After all, that's what these nutcases do best!
4
American conservatism and Christianity has always been an unholy alliance. Jesus was a flaming liberal and would likely be aghast at the the "prosperity gospel" being peddled by wealthy pastors to their affluent congregations.
8
Questionable logic and wishful thinking--the same stuff that downplayed the Trump nomination. Evangelical Christianity was never a constituency so much as a trait of much of the GOP rank and file. It continues to be and will continue to be. The pundits are over-thinking things again. People are unhappy and looking for solutions outside a status quo that is broken and are united in this discontent regardless of religion.
The Republican Party used to have a modicum of sanity on this issue, before they made a deal with the devil [sic].
"We in the United States, above all, must remember that lesson, for we were founded as a nation of openness to people of all beliefs. And so we must remain. Our very unity has been strengthened by our pluralism. We establish no religion in this country, we command no worship, we mandate no belief, nor will we ever. Church and state are, and must remain, separate. All are free to believe or not believe, all are free to practice a faith or not...."
— Ronald Reagan (1984)
"We in the United States, above all, must remember that lesson, for we were founded as a nation of openness to people of all beliefs. And so we must remain. Our very unity has been strengthened by our pluralism. We establish no religion in this country, we command no worship, we mandate no belief, nor will we ever. Church and state are, and must remain, separate. All are free to believe or not believe, all are free to practice a faith or not...."
— Ronald Reagan (1984)
6
As long as the left insists on lowing the moral standards
of the nation....YES. I assume Sarah Posner, is not a good
Methodist ?
of the nation....YES. I assume Sarah Posner, is not a good
Methodist ?
It's the getting health care for tens of millions, trying to ensure clean air and water, and making sure kids get a decent breakfast at their Head Start class, isn't it?
No wonder Jesus is incensed.
No wonder Jesus is incensed.
3
At the National Prayer Breakfast in 2015, President Obama said that people have "committed terrible deeds in the name of Christ." He might have been thinking of the evangelicals. There is very little of the Religious Right's ideology that is even remotely "Christ-like". The movement has never been about Christ's teachings or religious freedom so much as the validation that comes from forcing their beliefs on others. Sad that all that energy and zeal could not be channeled toward meaningful change; improving the economy, making health care more affordable, rebuilding our infrastructure, improving our educational system. Instead our state legislatures spend the majority time debating about what bathroom people are using.
Perhaps the biggest cost of the evangelicals is that by holding their votes hostage to ideological purity they have diverted our politicians attention away from the important issues that effect the people they purport to serve. Hopefully, the hypocrisy of their support of Trump will finally be their undoing. But don't count on it.
Perhaps the biggest cost of the evangelicals is that by holding their votes hostage to ideological purity they have diverted our politicians attention away from the important issues that effect the people they purport to serve. Hopefully, the hypocrisy of their support of Trump will finally be their undoing. But don't count on it.
9
Religious zealots - with the catholic church hierarchy leading the charge - try to force their religious beliefs on the rest of us which is why OUR founding fathers said there would be NO national religion and why the Constitution was amended to specifically state SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE. There is no place for controlling religious beliefs, and the inherent war and bloodshed they cause, in the governance of America and WE must not elect anyone who believes there is.
11
No. Here is the full text: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." There is nothing "specifically" stated about "SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE." You can rant & rail all you want against religion. That is your right, as also stated therein. Don't make up stuff to suit your purpose.
Dear Getting by,
Here's some more 'stuff':
Jesus said, "Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's , and render unto God what is God's."
That's about the clearest statement of 'Separation of Church and State' that there ever has been.
You're welcome.
Here's some more 'stuff':
Jesus said, "Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's , and render unto God what is God's."
That's about the clearest statement of 'Separation of Church and State' that there ever has been.
You're welcome.
3
Donald Trump plays on a stage and is a clueless "vulgar, narcissistic child" who could accidentally destroy humanity. Religion is a made up system that sooths people's anxiety about the unknown. This is a perfect medium for social pathogens to propogate. The whole situation makes me very sad, even if it is the chickens coming home to roost. Good luck humanity.
"If mercy is a business I wish it for you
More than just ashes when your dreams come true."
"If mercy is a business I wish it for you
More than just ashes when your dreams come true."
5
Sure sounds to me like the religious right is getting the same treatment from the Republicans that the Blacks suffer at the hands of the Democrats.
Wow, those who ever thought they could trust either or any political party, need to take a hard look at their treatment and perhaps look for a new political home.
Semper Fi
Wow, those who ever thought they could trust either or any political party, need to take a hard look at their treatment and perhaps look for a new political home.
Semper Fi
2
The Religious Blight has been a scourge upon America since it arose in the late 1970s.
Advocating for theocracy both overtly and covertly, it has long represented a clear and present danger to our secular nation.
The Religious Blight has accomplished no national good, though some, I suppose, are good people (see what I did there?)
Many if not most of them are spoiling for a fight to bring on what they call the end times.
And Lord knows the LGBT community has suffered mightily at their hands for the last 30 years and we are still suffering today in North Carolina (poor Charlotte, punished for doing the right thing.)
If you are a Christian who loves me and my LGBT brothers and sisters, not that love-the-sinner-hate-the-sin nonsense, then I love you back and thank you so very much.
Advocating for theocracy both overtly and covertly, it has long represented a clear and present danger to our secular nation.
The Religious Blight has accomplished no national good, though some, I suppose, are good people (see what I did there?)
Many if not most of them are spoiling for a fight to bring on what they call the end times.
And Lord knows the LGBT community has suffered mightily at their hands for the last 30 years and we are still suffering today in North Carolina (poor Charlotte, punished for doing the right thing.)
If you are a Christian who loves me and my LGBT brothers and sisters, not that love-the-sinner-hate-the-sin nonsense, then I love you back and thank you so very much.
166
I would only modify your post with the suggestion that "The Religious Blight has been a scourge upon America since it arose in" 1620. Those people came here because the Church of England was not persecuting Non-Conformists enough, and they have been trying to establish a fundamentalist theocracy since.
3
Time to pull their (all religious orgs) tax exempt status. If they are bent on fighting every little progressive gain - pull the exemption - it's not like we couldn't use the revenue.
4
Except for true hillbilies and/or other "believers", give me a break. The religious Right are the most cynically hypocritical of all the tripartite alliance's zombie army! Talk about dinosaurs! Dinosaurs and them coexisted, right?
12
Let me hand the floor to Lightning Hopkins, it is the needed time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNAXLtfQd7Y
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNAXLtfQd7Y
1
They would just kill him again.
2
It makes me wonder, if the religious right and the GOP get divorced, whether some of the more extreme religious partisans might enter into international adventures, as the 21st century version of the Abraham Lincoln Brigade in Spain, fighting the Syrian government or ISIS in Syria or elsewhere. Call it the Jerry Falwell Brigade (or the Red Cow Brigade, if their aim is the trigger the End Times). Given the disturbing evangelization of the US armed forces, there would be a large pool of ex-military to recruit from.
If the religious right is cut loose, it might get rather ugly rather just slouching into obscurity.
If the religious right is cut loose, it might get rather ugly rather just slouching into obscurity.
2
VJBortolet, we've already been witness to some of that with their failure to influence civil rights for the LGBTQ community in this country, they've been actively seeking to influence laws in other parts of the world:
http://www.thenation.com/article/its-not-just-uganda-behind-christian-ri...
With the number of missionaries abroad at any given time, what's next? Church collections used to field and fund their own private armies in the same way some large corporations with international facilities/installations have been known to do in order to pillage natural resources in African, Central and South American nations?
Bad enough to do so with greed on the mind, but with god supposedly on their side, can American style jihadists be too far out of the realm of possibility, especially given remote mechanized warfare (e.g. unmanned dropnes), private firms taking over functions and positions from the American military and the downsizing of our standing volunteer armies?
Scary prospect, that.
http://www.thenation.com/article/its-not-just-uganda-behind-christian-ri...
With the number of missionaries abroad at any given time, what's next? Church collections used to field and fund their own private armies in the same way some large corporations with international facilities/installations have been known to do in order to pillage natural resources in African, Central and South American nations?
Bad enough to do so with greed on the mind, but with god supposedly on their side, can American style jihadists be too far out of the realm of possibility, especially given remote mechanized warfare (e.g. unmanned dropnes), private firms taking over functions and positions from the American military and the downsizing of our standing volunteer armies?
Scary prospect, that.
3
The above should read 'unmanned drones'.
I hope the new comments system, whenever it's launched, allows one time to edit typos.
I hope the new comments system, whenever it's launched, allows one time to edit typos.
Trump's "success means religious and political leaders must figure out how a religious movement entangled itself in partisan politics and ended up being marginalized by the party it embraced."
Easy, it's hate which has been pounded into them by the Republicans since the Southern Strategy: hate the poor and disadvantaged among us; hate Planned Parenthood; hate minorities that have the audacity to want to vote; hate our current Black President; hate Muslims; etc, etc, etc.
Easy, it's hate which has been pounded into them by the Republicans since the Southern Strategy: hate the poor and disadvantaged among us; hate Planned Parenthood; hate minorities that have the audacity to want to vote; hate our current Black President; hate Muslims; etc, etc, etc.
9
of course it won't end. how could millions of Americans cloak bigotry, homophobia, hypocrisy, hate and the united states being morally superior to every other country in the world if it didn't say so in the bible.
8
It's unfortunate that "religious freedom for conservative Christians," results in conservative Christians' persecution of and discrimination against people of other faiths, especially Jews and Muslims. For immigrants to America who came seeking their own religious freedom, the lesson is that if you're not a Christian, you could be in as much peril as you were in the countries you fled.
So much for the First Amendment. Apparently the only amendment that is sacrosanct is the Second Amendment, which protects the weapons needed to kill infidels and the rest of the ungodly, such as homosexuals. After all, there's only one commandment that says "Thou shalt not kill," but obviously that only means that you can't kill embryos. Everyone else who disagrees with you is fair game.
So much for the First Amendment. Apparently the only amendment that is sacrosanct is the Second Amendment, which protects the weapons needed to kill infidels and the rest of the ungodly, such as homosexuals. After all, there's only one commandment that says "Thou shalt not kill," but obviously that only means that you can't kill embryos. Everyone else who disagrees with you is fair game.
8
I can't wait to see all religions vanish from the face of the earth. Religion has been a calamity for humanity. There is a major difference between ethics and religion.
13
If Donald Trump does indeed turn out to be the cause of the demise of the Religious Right in this country, it will be proof positive that God works in mysterious ways.
357
On November 8th the evangelicals will be at the polls shouting,
"We want Barabbas!!!"
"We want Barabbas!!!"
8
I like your analogy but of course biblical scholars agree that Jesus didn`t get to meet P.Pilote nor did Pilote have a special day to grant freedom to a prisoner/murderer. The fairy tale in the bible was created to place the blame of executing Jesus on the Jews so that the Romans could adopt the Judaist-ite that Paul (who never saw/met/heard Jesus) invented but which the actual followers of Jesus rejected as they like him were Torah observant Jews that believed only in Mosaic law. eg They were unfriendly to Gentiles.
1
Let's hope this is the end of the religious right. A more destructive force in our politics is difficult to imagine.
11
I'm sick and tired of ALL religious fanatics they are all the same and all are out of touch with reality. They use religion to justify racism, hate, prejudice and anything else they don't like.
9
Trump is a buffoon and I'll never vote for him, but he may have done the Republican Party a great service if he has broken the stranglehold the religious bloc has had on them. For a long time, there has been no place for voters who believe in a more conservative fiscal policy but are not interested in meddling with people's personal affairs. In theory, that's the Libertarian Party, but in practice it has not been. Many in the GOP are wailing and wringing their hands, but this could be the start of a new era, in which moderates are no longer drummed out of the party. The ultra-conservative fringe can go join the Tea Party and stay just that: a fringe.
143
The Tea Party is an astro-turf organization funded by the Koch brothers and their fellow travelers. It won't disappear as long as it serves their purpose.
1
Unless prominent Evangelical leaders, money, institutions, or lots of millenials make an assertive exit, I think we'll see the core of the religious right enduring as a more aggressive and radicalized nativist culture warring movement with a strong tendency toward more and less denied, more and less "accidental" separatism. Unfortunately this bloc will continue to speak to and for all Evangelicals and conservative Protestants whose identity is tied up in an idea of the "church as sect." As adversarial sub-national nationalists whose purity requires extreme reaction, they all have had one thing in common since 1964: religious exemptions to civil rights legislation. That is the heart and core motive of the nativism, culture warring, and separatism. Barring the emergence of an articulate religious center or center-left, the rightward tilt in our politics will remain because the default culture of conservative Protestantism tends toward an uncompromising anti-liberal, anti-statist activism.
3
Ask Target Corporation whether they think the 'religious right' is dead.
2
I don't need the religious right to disappear. I need them to stop trying to enforce their beliefs on everyone else.
I'm perfectly happy to live and let live.
If only these so-called lambs of god were willing to allow me the same freedom.
I'm perfectly happy to live and let live.
If only these so-called lambs of god were willing to allow me the same freedom.
13
"If only these so-called lambs of god were willing to allow me the same freedom."
Your lack of agreement with the evangelicals threatens them. It suggests they are silly people & of course totally wrong. Jews have suffered for centuries from Christian`s because they rejected Jesus (who was a Torah observant Jew & a zealot) as a god. Of course there are no gods but when people invest/are raised in a belief system then wars & hatred result when their ideas are challenged/threatened.
Your lack of agreement with the evangelicals threatens them. It suggests they are silly people & of course totally wrong. Jews have suffered for centuries from Christian`s because they rejected Jesus (who was a Torah observant Jew & a zealot) as a god. Of course there are no gods but when people invest/are raised in a belief system then wars & hatred result when their ideas are challenged/threatened.
1
This is the only good thing about Trump is getting religion as a non-issue in politics which is where it should have stayed. In the name of religious fervor in this country women have been treated like trash for demanding to have control over their bodies, Reagan did shameful things in the AIDS epidemic, divisions have come into play where they never were before, silly demands and frightening calls against all kinds of different types of people have happened, and even President Obama has been criticized for not being "religious" enough. This is the good ole USofA not Taliban country.
2
The religious right is really about community and sticking together when the world outside their circle seems big and bad.
Religion is for the scared and timid. Trump to these tight knit groups seems like a powerful knight who will fight and be tough. They don't really care what the fight is about so long as someone is going to stand between them and the other. The devil coming through the door? Trump will stand in its way.
His can do attitude is no different than a preacher reassuring them that they will find a safe haven in heaven if they just stand firm. Trump is that bulwark against new ideas, the drifting from closed belief system to open change and uncertainty.
If you believe what God stands for now, to change what you believe is to doubt God.
Trump is all about don't let "them" cast doubt. He has lived his life that way. Despite all the evidence to the contrary he still believes he knows business.
Religion is for the scared and timid. Trump to these tight knit groups seems like a powerful knight who will fight and be tough. They don't really care what the fight is about so long as someone is going to stand between them and the other. The devil coming through the door? Trump will stand in its way.
His can do attitude is no different than a preacher reassuring them that they will find a safe haven in heaven if they just stand firm. Trump is that bulwark against new ideas, the drifting from closed belief system to open change and uncertainty.
If you believe what God stands for now, to change what you believe is to doubt God.
Trump is all about don't let "them" cast doubt. He has lived his life that way. Despite all the evidence to the contrary he still believes he knows business.
3
What a farce, a marriage of convenience between secular politics and religious demands to influence the G.O.P.; have it both ways as a matter of fact, suspicious for hypocrisy.
2
To answer the question in the headline - God, I hope so!
3
Re the headline, I hope so.
Here's what I would like to see, as a start. Remove tax exemptions from religious institutions, whoever they pray to, that engage in political action, whether it's from the pulpit or a PAC. And not a piddling, we'll get around to it, response. A wholesale "we're stopping your tax exemptions now" approach.
Here's what I would like to see, as a start. Remove tax exemptions from religious institutions, whoever they pray to, that engage in political action, whether it's from the pulpit or a PAC. And not a piddling, we'll get around to it, response. A wholesale "we're stopping your tax exemptions now" approach.
12
The problem with that approach is that it would have to apply equally across the board with other non-profits. When you consider what that would do to many of the non-religious non-profits, I don't think you would want to move forward with the idea.
Mike, those rules already do apply to all non profits. The Sierra Club lost their nonprofit status for getting too political. The problem is that the IRS has never cracked down on the churches in the same way.
2
What a perfect picture.
They claim to follow the teachings of the Prince of Peace yet there's not a smile in the whole lot.
Bunch of angry old coots.
They claim to follow the teachings of the Prince of Peace yet there's not a smile in the whole lot.
Bunch of angry old coots.
7
To become an evangelical is to turn the control of your brain over to an ideology.
In this case one based on a belief in supernatural forces and historical stories that belie all that we have learned in the last 500 years of science.
Not only is that inherently weak-minded, history has taught us that it does not end well. All the '-isms' end in tragedy and death of millions of non-believers. Ask Stalin, ask Mao, ask the Crusaders.
So, farewell, evangelicals and good riddance.
Perhaps after this debacle to come the Republican party can reinvent itself as a centrist party, the only one not seeking votes by mortaging the lives of it's children, as is the central precept of the current Democratic party.
The country sorely needs a common sense party, perhaps the reinvented Republicans can become that.
In this case one based on a belief in supernatural forces and historical stories that belie all that we have learned in the last 500 years of science.
Not only is that inherently weak-minded, history has taught us that it does not end well. All the '-isms' end in tragedy and death of millions of non-believers. Ask Stalin, ask Mao, ask the Crusaders.
So, farewell, evangelicals and good riddance.
Perhaps after this debacle to come the Republican party can reinvent itself as a centrist party, the only one not seeking votes by mortaging the lives of it's children, as is the central precept of the current Democratic party.
The country sorely needs a common sense party, perhaps the reinvented Republicans can become that.
2
The evangelicals are among the most racist demographics. That is particularly true of those who embrace the prosperity theology. Some explanation is in order.
Evangelicals do support individual, one-on-one, discrimination. They do support institutional racism. The evangelicals embrace social ministries that reach out to poor minorities and they donate generously. However, evangelicals want to keep "them" at arms length. They do support bringing subsidized housing into white suburbs. They do not support minimum wage increases that would enable "them" to rise out of poverty. They favor hit-and-miss charitable medical assistance
Evangelicals do support individual, one-on-one, discrimination. They do support institutional racism. The evangelicals embrace social ministries that reach out to poor minorities and they donate generously. However, evangelicals want to keep "them" at arms length. They do support bringing subsidized housing into white suburbs. They do not support minimum wage increases that would enable "them" to rise out of poverty. They favor hit-and-miss charitable medical assistance
4
Religious Right opposition to abortion has been puzzling. Supposedly based on the Bible, it actually is not, as Genesis 1:27 and 2:7 posit personhood as beginning at birth, which tallies with the scientific view that the functions of personhood, consciousness and will, are not possible until permitted by brain development, some time after 28-32 weeks of gestation. (About 90% of abortions are performed by 13 weeks, 99% by 20 weeks, and the remaining small number only for serious medical reasons.) Religious Right opposition to abortion is really about the misogyny prevalent in the Bible and is society generally. -- Edd Doerr
7
It is simple really.
Those who are religious and who vote republican have learned that they are not electing their next pope or pastor, but a politician. Politicians by nature are not very strong in the character department. Some are, but most are skilled at hiding their character flaws from the public. They have given up trying to elect saints to office, because there are none.
They also realize that abortion will never be illegal, and trying to elect people who can never make it illegal is a waste of time, especially when there are rather important issues that can be changed.
Those who are religious and who vote republican have learned that they are not electing their next pope or pastor, but a politician. Politicians by nature are not very strong in the character department. Some are, but most are skilled at hiding their character flaws from the public. They have given up trying to elect saints to office, because there are none.
They also realize that abortion will never be illegal, and trying to elect people who can never make it illegal is a waste of time, especially when there are rather important issues that can be changed.
1
I hope this article is true. It took someone like Trump to divide the fundies into differing camps. That these supposedly devout Christians are drawn by a demagogue and liar like Trump is telling.
2
Sagemeister, I think it is telling, but in a different way. I know a lot of these religious right type people (family members and co-workers) and I have had many conversations with them. Some of them were hard-core Cruz supporters because of his position on the typical cultural issues of the RR.
The Trump supporters, while they would mostly all agree on the abortion and gay marriage stuff, understood that Trump would not be a champion of those things. They don't care about that this time, BECAUSE they have come to realize it won't change anyway and there are much more important pressing issues that do matter: Immigration, trade, the economy. They really believe that the country is going to implode if Hillary is the president and
The Trump supporters, while they would mostly all agree on the abortion and gay marriage stuff, understood that Trump would not be a champion of those things. They don't care about that this time, BECAUSE they have come to realize it won't change anyway and there are much more important pressing issues that do matter: Immigration, trade, the economy. They really believe that the country is going to implode if Hillary is the president and
They gave us George W. Bush. They wanted to give us Ted Cruz but chose someone else just as deranged, Donald Trump. We had the Enlightenment, you know, and moved beyond The Age of Faith.
"The light which puts out our eyes is darkness to us. Only that day dawns to which we are awake. There is more day to dawn. The sun is but a morning star."
"The light which puts out our eyes is darkness to us. Only that day dawns to which we are awake. There is more day to dawn. The sun is but a morning star."
Don't worry about the religious right. They will be born again.
3
All of us had no religion when we were born but a religion was forced on us by our parents or others. All our religion is the same- human race!
1
Is this the end of the religious right? Hell no (see what I did there?)!
By definition, a lot of these folks live in a fact-free world, where we don't concern ourselves with little things like climate change, because God will take care of that. Instead, we focus on the big picture (like how lesbians or gays we don't know and will never meet should conduct their lives), and the big concerns (like who's in the public bathroom with me). Living in a fact-free world means not having to worry about electoral results. Lose today? So what; we might win tomorrow. No need to change anything. And it means living in blissful ignorance of our Constitution, which forbids the establishment of a theocracy. Constitution? That's just a lot of Eastern liberal Harvard Yale Yankee New York made-up stuff to take God away from us.
So no, the religious right isn't going anywhere. Which will be its epitaph on the scrapheap of history some day.
By definition, a lot of these folks live in a fact-free world, where we don't concern ourselves with little things like climate change, because God will take care of that. Instead, we focus on the big picture (like how lesbians or gays we don't know and will never meet should conduct their lives), and the big concerns (like who's in the public bathroom with me). Living in a fact-free world means not having to worry about electoral results. Lose today? So what; we might win tomorrow. No need to change anything. And it means living in blissful ignorance of our Constitution, which forbids the establishment of a theocracy. Constitution? That's just a lot of Eastern liberal Harvard Yale Yankee New York made-up stuff to take God away from us.
So no, the religious right isn't going anywhere. Which will be its epitaph on the scrapheap of history some day.
205
As a member of the religious left, I have to admit this makes me happy.
1
with the possible exception of obvious racism and nativeism, the biggest sin of the religious fundamentalism in the United States is the total indifference to economic injustice and unfairness. Instead, what we've been treated to is a massive "politics of displacement" - you say jobs...they say abortion...you say incomes...they say sharia law...you say living wages...they say transgender bathrooms. The list is endless and the blindness total.
I'll give the Trump supporters credit for one thing - they're on to you.
I'll give the Trump supporters credit for one thing - they're on to you.
175
The fact is that the republican Party never was absolutely committed to the values of Evangelicals. The GOP is ruled by its moneyed center and they have been happy to give lip service and sometimes support to evangelical causes in exchange for their votes. The GOP believes in war, guns, money US hegemony and keeping women in their place. Perhaps evangelicals also believe in these things, but for different moral reasons than their rich masters. So it has been an uneasy alliance that is breaking apart under the strains of having a candidate that has no moral compass at all.
150
Beautifully said. Thank you.
The clearest and most accurate post in so far in this thread. Thank you.
The GOP stands for patriarchy, blind obedience to authority, destruction of the earth for individual profit, and government in the service of the 1%. It has nothing to offer anyone who does not share those values.
The Religious Right was only superficially about religion. At its core, it was about the domination and supremacy of a white, heterosexual patriarchy.
They never really cared that Reagan had been divorced, or that W. Bush was a recovering addict. What they cared about is that both of those politicians- and the GOP- promised them they would get the cultural space and the legal opportunity to enshrine their bigotry and their misogyny. They are the American Taliban.
For thirty five years, evangelical Christians have done everything in their power to delay and destroy equality and opportunity in our nation. They seem a bit mute on gays and lesbians (turning their new attacks to transgender individuals) but I will tell you, as a gay man, the pain, homophobia, and bigotry they spewed through our country for decades was severely damaging. The wreckage they caused to countless innocent lives is very real. Not to mention the beatings, the hate crimes, and the suicides.
Evangelical views on women are an ignorant and barbaric embarrassment for a 21st century advanced society. If we are to create an equal nation, and to be a global leader, we must allow women full autonomy in all facets of their lives. This includes education, equal pay, and- crucially- the right to make their own health decisions without any interference, or additional financial and legal complications, whatsoever.
They are pinning themselves to Trump because he is their last, great white hope.
They never really cared that Reagan had been divorced, or that W. Bush was a recovering addict. What they cared about is that both of those politicians- and the GOP- promised them they would get the cultural space and the legal opportunity to enshrine their bigotry and their misogyny. They are the American Taliban.
For thirty five years, evangelical Christians have done everything in their power to delay and destroy equality and opportunity in our nation. They seem a bit mute on gays and lesbians (turning their new attacks to transgender individuals) but I will tell you, as a gay man, the pain, homophobia, and bigotry they spewed through our country for decades was severely damaging. The wreckage they caused to countless innocent lives is very real. Not to mention the beatings, the hate crimes, and the suicides.
Evangelical views on women are an ignorant and barbaric embarrassment for a 21st century advanced society. If we are to create an equal nation, and to be a global leader, we must allow women full autonomy in all facets of their lives. This includes education, equal pay, and- crucially- the right to make their own health decisions without any interference, or additional financial and legal complications, whatsoever.
They are pinning themselves to Trump because he is their last, great white hope.
337
The Evangelical movement should recognize their own sins and repent for the monster they created in the GOP. They can redeem themselves at this point by keeping their religious "values" - for what they are - to themselves and stop trying to inflict it on others through political means.
We need to fight this for the same reason we should fight any other religiously based political activities being imposed on us. If evangelicals object to any attempts by another religious group to impose Sharia law, then they need to stop trying to impose their so called values on the rest of us.
We need to fight this for the same reason we should fight any other religiously based political activities being imposed on us. If evangelicals object to any attempts by another religious group to impose Sharia law, then they need to stop trying to impose their so called values on the rest of us.
161
That Trump is confounding considering his contradictory positions and lack of bona fide credentials should not be seen as a criticism of him, or an aberrant behavior on the part of voters, but a criticism of our government. His success in winning the GOP primaries is fundamentally because he represents a protest vote.
Voters are sick and tired of our country being run by big money, and of being deceived by candidates with no scruples about exploiting wedge issues and misdirected anger to con them into voting against their own best interests, then abandon them after the election, and work instead for the opposing interests of those who filled their campaign coffers with advance bribes.
As Lincoln said: you can't fool all the people all the time, and the more the political establishment and the major media strive to denigrate Trump, the more he appears a hero to those of us who have been used and betrayed.
Alas, the average voter to fight back against the rampant deceit and corruption of big money in government is left with few other effective ways to take back our democracy than to vote for a spoiler.
Voters are sick and tired of our country being run by big money, and of being deceived by candidates with no scruples about exploiting wedge issues and misdirected anger to con them into voting against their own best interests, then abandon them after the election, and work instead for the opposing interests of those who filled their campaign coffers with advance bribes.
As Lincoln said: you can't fool all the people all the time, and the more the political establishment and the major media strive to denigrate Trump, the more he appears a hero to those of us who have been used and betrayed.
Alas, the average voter to fight back against the rampant deceit and corruption of big money in government is left with few other effective ways to take back our democracy than to vote for a spoiler.
"Voters are sick and tired of our country being run by big money, and of being deceived by candidates with no scruples about exploiting wedge issues and misdirected anger to con them into voting against their own best interests..."
Based on this criteria, ELB, it's difficult to see how voting for Trump qualifies as a 'protest vote' with any hope of garnering you the opposite.
Granted it's supposedly his own money, whatever that amount actually happens to be, but it's not as if it comes bundled with no deceit or corruption:
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/05/06/35-questions-every-trum...
The fact that it *does* come a whopping dose of superhuman conceit in addition to the usual amount of self-interest is hardly a bonus or a selling point.
Based on this criteria, ELB, it's difficult to see how voting for Trump qualifies as a 'protest vote' with any hope of garnering you the opposite.
Granted it's supposedly his own money, whatever that amount actually happens to be, but it's not as if it comes bundled with no deceit or corruption:
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/05/06/35-questions-every-trum...
The fact that it *does* come a whopping dose of superhuman conceit in addition to the usual amount of self-interest is hardly a bonus or a selling point.
Maybe we could get really lucky and see the end of all religion.
2
I hope to God it is. While something like the Party of Christ may emerge, they will probably not have the power they have had for many years to come.
A party of Christ will have huge buying power in the confederate states and some of the right wing midwest states (IE Kansas). That will be unfortunate for the rest of us, as these fringe regions already have out-sized influence on the course of our nation. The only way around this is to raise the artificial ceiling of 435 Congressional seats, imposed arbitrarily almost a century ago. Then and only then would forward-thinking states like CA and WA have a democratic voice in Congress.
What the religious voters have to realize is that they have been used by the politicians. This is the same unholy alliance that you see played out again and again in history. How can a religious organization that advocates love, the care of the poor, family values support candidates that are for the criminalization of the poor immigrant that is looking for hope, for gays that want to have a family and fight against social justice - advocating Ayn Rand's out of control selfishness and disdain for the "takers"? Religious organizations better look twice and see who is closer to their values
159
I know a disappointed Cruz voter who is turning to the Libertarian party. Mind bending how these worlds fit together in his head....
There's a very good reason they call it "flyover country". As my late dad used to say, these people are "one egg roll short of a combination plate". Trump has played them like a cheap fiddle; their gullibility is epic, along with their suffocating piety, their self-righteousness, their transparent bigotry, their uniform commitment to white supremacy and their utter ignorance of the enduring Constitutional concept, "Separation of Church and State".
1
While the anti-abortion, pro-life crusade marches on through the states of the Bible Belt, the days of "rum, romanism, and rebellion" have now passed and the new banner of Trumpism is the politics of "resentment, racism, and rebellion" which also plays extremely well in the Old Confederacy that includes religious conservatives.
1
It needs to be the end. The group has consistently assaulted the first amendment. They have cowered behind politicians that have no real spiritual identity, but know how and when to say "Jesus" at just the correct time in a speech. They have traded in the teachings of the Bible for distinct issues they can rationalize very easily. They have constantly rejected the social work that Christianity should be known by for their politicized social issues that have no bearing on the success of our nation.
The entire Bible is intended to show God's love. The "Religious Right" has never lived up to that intention because the entire platform they support contradicts that ideal. Jesus said plainly "Feed the hungry, give those who are thirsty something to drink, take care of the sick, visit those in prison"...... Our society is desperate for that kind of love and evangelicals refuse to let that be their platform.
What is perhaps more bothersome than all of this, and what most other comments have stated, is somehow the RR has a deep belief that they are victims in our society. That is the perception given to them by Politicians who want their vote. Once a sheep, always a sheep.
The entire Bible is intended to show God's love. The "Religious Right" has never lived up to that intention because the entire platform they support contradicts that ideal. Jesus said plainly "Feed the hungry, give those who are thirsty something to drink, take care of the sick, visit those in prison"...... Our society is desperate for that kind of love and evangelicals refuse to let that be their platform.
What is perhaps more bothersome than all of this, and what most other comments have stated, is somehow the RR has a deep belief that they are victims in our society. That is the perception given to them by Politicians who want their vote. Once a sheep, always a sheep.
189
The "religious right" has devolved once again.
Once upon a time it was the broken-glass littered playground of Ronnie Reagan and Phyllis Schlafly.
Today it is the mudpuddle of Roy Moore and Kim Davis.
It was not the rantings of atheists like me that caused this devolution.
It was the silence of the "religious left" that could never explain just why it was that their religions had become the Church of Anatomy.
Really? God demanded that I have 37 children? Really?
And a philanderer like DT is demanding the same?
Really?
Please, just take your tax-exemptions and go away.
Jerry Falwell already did that 'bathroom thing', remember?
Remember him gyrating into the microphone, shrieking that if women got equal inclusion within the Constitution, that if the ERA was passed, that women would want to use "unisex bathrooms"..... which is puzzling, because why wouldn't a person of ANY sex want to use a "unisex bathroom"?
Well, Falwell, Phyllis and Ronnie won that battle, the ERA was never ratified, women are NOT equally included in the Constitution and so females live under those "Jane Crow" laws, The "Titles" which can be voted out by Congress any time they want.
So it will go for the "bathroom wars" today.
I wish the LBGT community better luck than females got from this bunch.
Are they failing?
Oh, good. Couldn't happen to a nastier bunch.
And "Religious Left" - you'll have to explain all this to me, because, frankly, all it sounds like to me is just another rigged game.
Right?
Once upon a time it was the broken-glass littered playground of Ronnie Reagan and Phyllis Schlafly.
Today it is the mudpuddle of Roy Moore and Kim Davis.
It was not the rantings of atheists like me that caused this devolution.
It was the silence of the "religious left" that could never explain just why it was that their religions had become the Church of Anatomy.
Really? God demanded that I have 37 children? Really?
And a philanderer like DT is demanding the same?
Really?
Please, just take your tax-exemptions and go away.
Jerry Falwell already did that 'bathroom thing', remember?
Remember him gyrating into the microphone, shrieking that if women got equal inclusion within the Constitution, that if the ERA was passed, that women would want to use "unisex bathrooms"..... which is puzzling, because why wouldn't a person of ANY sex want to use a "unisex bathroom"?
Well, Falwell, Phyllis and Ronnie won that battle, the ERA was never ratified, women are NOT equally included in the Constitution and so females live under those "Jane Crow" laws, The "Titles" which can be voted out by Congress any time they want.
So it will go for the "bathroom wars" today.
I wish the LBGT community better luck than females got from this bunch.
Are they failing?
Oh, good. Couldn't happen to a nastier bunch.
And "Religious Left" - you'll have to explain all this to me, because, frankly, all it sounds like to me is just another rigged game.
Right?
147
You use the term evangelical, without a definition, as if it equates with the political right (another undefined term). Evangelical is a theological term. As a United Methodist, I know many "evangelicals" who vote Democrat, many who vote Republican and many who are non-political. I wish the press would stop using this important theological reference in a pejorative sense.
2
From your keyboard to His ears.
But I also thought that by this time we’d have a permanent outpost on Mars, gravity-adjusted space stations at the L-points and a bustling Moon colony. Go figure.
There was a time when R’s and D’s could disagree but work together to move forward, neither caving to the other but seeking and finding and exploiting what common ground existed – and both sides were surprised at how much common ground they could find. It started with an acceptance by each side that the other held its convictions honestly, that those convictions weren’t going away, and that the exponents on each side weren’t monsters; so dialogue could take place, workable compromise could be found.
But all that was before Watergate allowed the far-left to eviscerate MY Republican Party, and the evangelicals, for so long a thin splinter on our far right not paid immense attention, waltzed into the vacuum and became us to much of the world. But we never went away. In the end, our national political problem is one of ideological extremes.
But those millions who support Trump are Republicans – they’re just not the religious right. Despite the greater risks attendant to a Trump presidency, I support him as the last best hope we have of pulling our extremes closer to the center and moving forward again. It may be that many “Republicans” vote for Hillary; but we could be surprised at how many sympathetic Democrats and Independents vote for Trump. The country wants to move forward again.
But I also thought that by this time we’d have a permanent outpost on Mars, gravity-adjusted space stations at the L-points and a bustling Moon colony. Go figure.
There was a time when R’s and D’s could disagree but work together to move forward, neither caving to the other but seeking and finding and exploiting what common ground existed – and both sides were surprised at how much common ground they could find. It started with an acceptance by each side that the other held its convictions honestly, that those convictions weren’t going away, and that the exponents on each side weren’t monsters; so dialogue could take place, workable compromise could be found.
But all that was before Watergate allowed the far-left to eviscerate MY Republican Party, and the evangelicals, for so long a thin splinter on our far right not paid immense attention, waltzed into the vacuum and became us to much of the world. But we never went away. In the end, our national political problem is one of ideological extremes.
But those millions who support Trump are Republicans – they’re just not the religious right. Despite the greater risks attendant to a Trump presidency, I support him as the last best hope we have of pulling our extremes closer to the center and moving forward again. It may be that many “Republicans” vote for Hillary; but we could be surprised at how many sympathetic Democrats and Independents vote for Trump. The country wants to move forward again.
3
"Watergate allowed the far-left to eviscerate MY Republican Party" Really? I'm always amused by the right's constant descent into victimhood whenever the contradictions and illogic of their positions comes to light. Thanks for the chuckle, Mr Luettgen.
6
So the decline of a "thinking" Republican Party is the fault of Democrats who rightfully and fairly prosecuted RMN for impeachable offenses against we the people? That is a twist on history I do not think has been introduced anywhere else. WOW.
6
So Richard has gone over to the dark side to support Trump. If Trump isn't the end of the "religious right," he may be the end of any pretense to integrity in the GOP.
3
I finally gave up on organized religion. I couldn't believe all the weird stuff in the Bible that contradicts the laws of nature and never really happened. Then there is the intolerance in books like Leviticus that imposes the death sentence on gays.
As to the politicians, we have people like George Bush and Ted Cruz continually spouting platitudes but who show no interest in the welfare of people. Bush was responsible for the death of thousands of people in wars that accomplished nothing of value and are still festering. Hopefully, Cruz won't get that chance.
This country would be a better place without the influence of the evangelicals but I doubt that they go away. They will probably just vote for Trump.
As to the politicians, we have people like George Bush and Ted Cruz continually spouting platitudes but who show no interest in the welfare of people. Bush was responsible for the death of thousands of people in wars that accomplished nothing of value and are still festering. Hopefully, Cruz won't get that chance.
This country would be a better place without the influence of the evangelicals but I doubt that they go away. They will probably just vote for Trump.
26
"I finally gave up on organized religion."
Been there.
Done that.
Intellectual that you are did you say?
World War I and WW II was started by a godless Germany, 50 million people were killed.
Stalin killed or starved 20 million of his own people to collectivize the farms and indoctrinate his brand of atheism total allover deaths in Russia 120 million.
Mao Tse Tung killed 70 million Chinese to establish Communism in China.
Total 240,000,000 dead.
As much as you may criticize "false" religions that murder other believers they have never murdered to the multitude or extent of atheists.
Genocide that took place in a continent without religious values like Africa? 5,000,000 dead in the Congo alone.
Read "Something of Value" to see how having no religious values destroy millions.
Look around at many in today's godless society—hopes and dreams of a moral atheism dashed to pieces by the reality of decadence, debasement, debauchery, greed, sexual perversion and hedonism.
3
Godless Germany? Surely you jest. One way Hitler was able to get the majority boiled up against the Jews was for Catholics and Protestants to claim religious superiority. The key German ally was Italy--a 100% Catholic nation.
1
And the ones where some god plays a large role are not much better. They just kill with impunity in the name of religion. They need no other justification. Religion is the root of all evil in this world.
1
People who think religion is a necessity don't have to worry. Religion will be there as long as people won't risk thinking by themselves.
23
Frankly, I don't think the Republican party will lose much, if any, of the evangelical vote. First and foremost, the "evangelical" vote is really just a white, rural, anti-liberal vote with minor nuances. Their overwhelming support for Donald Trump, a good stand in for the Anti-Christ, couldn't emphasize this fact any more resoundingly. These voters happened to coalesce around gay marriage and other convenient, clearly differentiated, positions as a means of justifying and strengthening their block identity and influence within the party, but that was always anscillary to their "true" motive for voting Republican. Identity politcs!
If evangelical voters were really voting their faith, they would all be Democrats.. Jesus says a lot more about helping the poor and your neighbor and even paying a fair share of taxes ("give unto Ceasar") than He ever said about gay marriage. The fact that there is no longer any room for political policy positions favored by the religious right that have any resonance with a broad spectrum of the national populace is almost irrelevant. So, the real question is when will we stop polling as if "evangelicals" were any different than other rural white Republcian voters.
After all, we don't differentiate between African American catholics and baptists (because they vote the same way). The real difference for the Republcian party is that it will, eventually, be less tied to untenable and unpopular positions as this block is re-absorbed.
If evangelical voters were really voting their faith, they would all be Democrats.. Jesus says a lot more about helping the poor and your neighbor and even paying a fair share of taxes ("give unto Ceasar") than He ever said about gay marriage. The fact that there is no longer any room for political policy positions favored by the religious right that have any resonance with a broad spectrum of the national populace is almost irrelevant. So, the real question is when will we stop polling as if "evangelicals" were any different than other rural white Republcian voters.
After all, we don't differentiate between African American catholics and baptists (because they vote the same way). The real difference for the Republcian party is that it will, eventually, be less tied to untenable and unpopular positions as this block is re-absorbed.
15
I hope so. I'm tired of the social conservatives hijacking the agenda instead of focusing on fiscal and policy matters. Yes, they are hypocrites that use religion as a guise to control people and legislate morality.
31
Any person who claims to be religious yet can enable a candidate like Trump by supporting his ideas has to be a hypocrite. Though I am not an Evangelical or regular church goer I do have values and standards of behavior. The things that spew out of Trump's mouth is beyond the pale.
Not only would I not want my grandchildren to hear, even when alone in a room I must hit the "Mute" button when this bloviating jerk comes on the screen. He's simply one of the most obnoxious uncouth persons who has ever run for political office, presidential or otherwise.
How anyone with a serious bone in their body could validate this scoundrel by casting a vote for him is incomprehensible. I guess the axiom holds true: There's one in every crowd. And so there is.
DD
Manhattan
Not only would I not want my grandchildren to hear, even when alone in a room I must hit the "Mute" button when this bloviating jerk comes on the screen. He's simply one of the most obnoxious uncouth persons who has ever run for political office, presidential or otherwise.
How anyone with a serious bone in their body could validate this scoundrel by casting a vote for him is incomprehensible. I guess the axiom holds true: There's one in every crowd. And so there is.
DD
Manhattan
14
The "Christian nation" envisioned by the evangelical right of the Falwell brand of religion would share more in common with the Califate of Abu-Bakr al-Baghdadi than with the nation proposed by the Founding Fathers in Philadelphia. For all the effort they spent trying to keep religion out of the gears of government, one need only look at the wear and tear the sands of religion have wrought.
Trump is exactly the medicine the Republican Party and its largest vote producer need here in the nascent 2000's. The Religious Right and the Republican Party are parasitic twins, with the conundrum being which one is the parasite? The separation of the two may not plastic-surgery pretty, but it could be lifesaving for one, possibly both.
Trump is exactly the medicine the Republican Party and its largest vote producer need here in the nascent 2000's. The Religious Right and the Republican Party are parasitic twins, with the conundrum being which one is the parasite? The separation of the two may not plastic-surgery pretty, but it could be lifesaving for one, possibly both.
168
The "religious right", particularly in the south, has always been at least as much about race (if not more) than about the bible; witness the support in 1980 for the divorced Hollywood actor who spoke of "states rights" over the Sunday School teacher who advocated for civil rights.
35
We have long known that the "Religious Right" is neither. May it continue to unravel
25
Amen.
2
Are we saying that people who believe the bible is the literal word of god with all those contradictions of physics, fact, and chronological inconsistencies in the face of all scientific and physical evidence can actually believe what comes out of the mouth of a buffoonish reality television host? I'm shocked.
21
I appreciate Ms. Posner's article, perhaps especially in light of the plentiful, highly charged comments it seems to have spawned. Is it my imagination, or is there a certain kind of prickliness, even antipathy, in many folks whenever someone tries to address, in a reasoned and journalistically balanced way, the matter of religious faith and life in the public square?
My own sense is that some of the significant fault lines WITHIN the broad evangelical community that she identifies: gradually diverging views (both grounded in scripture) on same-gender marriage, Christian stances regarding immigration and a global refugee crisis, the ascendancy of the so-called
prosperity gospel, would be re-making the Religious Right landscape without the opportunistic blurts of Mr. Trump.
The heart of the Trumpian appeal is more vague, more elemental, and has in the past been buttressed by theological arguments, but does not depend on them: America's unique, twin destinies to flourish economically and dominate globally. There are, quite simply, A LOT of folks who 'believe' in those!
I'd like to hear more about, and more from, the several 'families' of conscientious Christian life and witness in North America that are NOT normally included in the tag "Religious Right," groups that are deeply committed to biblical teaching and discernment, who practice robust traditions of worship and service, and who have histories of articulate engagement in public witness and politics.
My own sense is that some of the significant fault lines WITHIN the broad evangelical community that she identifies: gradually diverging views (both grounded in scripture) on same-gender marriage, Christian stances regarding immigration and a global refugee crisis, the ascendancy of the so-called
prosperity gospel, would be re-making the Religious Right landscape without the opportunistic blurts of Mr. Trump.
The heart of the Trumpian appeal is more vague, more elemental, and has in the past been buttressed by theological arguments, but does not depend on them: America's unique, twin destinies to flourish economically and dominate globally. There are, quite simply, A LOT of folks who 'believe' in those!
I'd like to hear more about, and more from, the several 'families' of conscientious Christian life and witness in North America that are NOT normally included in the tag "Religious Right," groups that are deeply committed to biblical teaching and discernment, who practice robust traditions of worship and service, and who have histories of articulate engagement in public witness and politics.
2
While cognitive dissonance is an obvious and chronic trait of the religious right, one would think support of Trump would bring about a frightening new level, finally resulting in heads spinning and exploding in their ranks. However, with practice of a faith in word and deed seemingly a mile wide and an inch deep (comparable to the parabolic mustard seed?), it will likely not gain even the odd side glance or raised eyebrow, let alone any type of spiritual reckoning or re-evaluation.
In Trump they have their perfect candidate - a surrogate willing to openly and blatantly express the very coarse and malevolent attitudes they bear, against the proclaimed tenets of their faith, for their fellow Americans and global citizens, without sullying their own tongues.
If, as they claim to believe, all are to one day stand accountable to a divine creator before the seat of judgment, I fear they're going to be more than a little surprised at being found as guilty as their proxy.
In Trump they have their perfect candidate - a surrogate willing to openly and blatantly express the very coarse and malevolent attitudes they bear, against the proclaimed tenets of their faith, for their fellow Americans and global citizens, without sullying their own tongues.
If, as they claim to believe, all are to one day stand accountable to a divine creator before the seat of judgment, I fear they're going to be more than a little surprised at being found as guilty as their proxy.
9
The Christian Right misses the whole point of American democracy. It is that our democracy allows its citizens unbounded freedom and, relies on religion or mores to restrain citizens from doing wrong. It is decidedly not a political system where the government restrains the citizens at the behest of one religion or set of beliefs. This is how God Blessed America.
179
"The Christian Right misses the whole point of American democracy."
No, it just hates it.
No, it just hates it.
3
For they have sown the wind, and they shall reap the whirlwind: it hath no stalk: the bud shall yield no meal: if so be it yield, the strangers shall swallow it up.
2
If it is the end of the religious right, it is not because of Donald Trump, but because evangelicals have forgotten what a compassionate philosophy Christianity used to be. The ethic of self-regulation has given way to a mania to control others, and the habit of humility and introspection, which were absolutely essential to American Puritanism, have turned into arrogance and rancorous intolerance. That is not the Christianity of William Ames or even William Bradford. It is a philosophy drawn from television and tabloids.
11
I have always suspected the religious right of being a bunch of hypocrites that cynically use religion to rationalize their bigotry. Trump has exposed so many for the hypocrites they are. Turns out the religious right's main concern is not the teachings of god but something far more base.
17
Religious fundamentalism is a chronic disease. It's may seem to be in remission but it's not going away. Something based on that which only exists in imagination can't be refuted.
13
Mammon worshippers.
They will have no problem backing Trump. He is playing their tune.
Hypocrisy and hate. Aren't those tenents?
They will have no problem backing Trump. He is playing their tune.
Hypocrisy and hate. Aren't those tenents?
5
I am a church goer, but in my lifetime of 50+ years, I've seen much of Christianity morph from a focus on the community of believers concerned with their connection to the divine and how that might lead them to make the world a better place to a community focused mostly on what's wrong with everybody else and how it's screwing up the universe. Sure, we're all sinners, but that guy over there is worse!
The so-called Religious Right never was about seeking God's will for the community of believers, but about political power to be wielded over others. The hammer they created to pound others into submission is now being used on them by Trump. Schadenfreude, karma, irony, or whatever you want to call it, it's a sight to behold.
The so-called Religious Right never was about seeking God's will for the community of believers, but about political power to be wielded over others. The hammer they created to pound others into submission is now being used on them by Trump. Schadenfreude, karma, irony, or whatever you want to call it, it's a sight to behold.
16
Over the last few decades I have grown increasingly alarmed over the perversion of the evangelical Christian religion into something cancerous and evil, full of hate and intolerance for any but the close-minded. We are truly seeing history in the making.
The evangelical, religious right is made up on sexist, homophobic, uneducated, intolerant bigots who do not represent the changing demographics of the US. I, for one, am glad they are finally outnumbered. They do nothing but spew hatred and ignorance, all in the name of some faction of Christianity that has spiraled into a hateful cult. Lets vote them off the island.
25
May Trump crash the religious right (they never have been--right, that is). He's what these intellectually bankrupt emotionalistic people well deserve in their mental blindness. Let's just hope for the good of us all, he doesn't get elected. We need him about the same as '30s and 40s Germany needed a fellow somewhat similar in ethics to him: Adolf Hitler.
8
The white supremacist evangelical Christian right is the legitimate logical heir to the purveyors of black African humanity denying enslavement and Jim Crow equality defying discrimination including the Confederate States of America, the Ku Klux Klan, the White Citizen's Councils, the Democratic Party and the Republican Party.
Sunday morning is still the most racially colored segregated time of any American week. There is nothing Christian Matthew 25:31-46 "right" about the Christian right. Faith including the faithful and the faithless need to stay way from both politics and government. America has freedom of religion. But America neither has nor denies any religion. Keeping church and state apart protects and preserves both institutions.
Sunday morning is still the most racially colored segregated time of any American week. There is nothing Christian Matthew 25:31-46 "right" about the Christian right. Faith including the faithful and the faithless need to stay way from both politics and government. America has freedom of religion. But America neither has nor denies any religion. Keeping church and state apart protects and preserves both institutions.
12
I think many misunderstand what the "religious right" is. Take religion out of the equation and look at a map of the Red States. The red starts in South Carolina and cuts a broad swath though the southern "bible belt" and then veers north trough the central "bread basket" of America. The red is agrarian. It is a group that has long resisted centralized government and urban thinking. It is a group that fought against the constitution, preferring the "state rights" dominated articles of confederation. It is group of predominantly white people who hate taxes, hate city folk, hate abortion, love to thump the bible, love to drive pickup trucks, love to own guns and pretend that they are self-sufficient. They rant against welfare, but love their corn subsidy.
When Bush, a Harvard trained city boy, failed on so many levels, they blamed the establishment city boys, they blamed the poor blacks, they blamed the godless, they blamed everyone but themselves, and created their own party, the Tea Party. Their power to control the Republican Party urban elites comes from their threat of forming a third party, thereby destroying the Republican party and denying the elites power.
When Boehner quit, and walked off the stage, he basically called their bluff. He basically said, "you want to control the Party? Go for it!" And he left.
Now, the agrarians are rallying around their new standard bearer, while the urban elite are following Boehner off the stage.
When Bush, a Harvard trained city boy, failed on so many levels, they blamed the establishment city boys, they blamed the poor blacks, they blamed the godless, they blamed everyone but themselves, and created their own party, the Tea Party. Their power to control the Republican Party urban elites comes from their threat of forming a third party, thereby destroying the Republican party and denying the elites power.
When Boehner quit, and walked off the stage, he basically called their bluff. He basically said, "you want to control the Party? Go for it!" And he left.
Now, the agrarians are rallying around their new standard bearer, while the urban elite are following Boehner off the stage.
13
An interesting column that ignores Republican evangelicals race hatred and makes light of the hypocrisy that exists among these people. It also ignores the fact that most of the democratic world wonders why this sanctimonious crowd has as much influence as it does on the American scene. The Republican evangelical right will be around for a long time but let's hope that its influence diminishes as well.
11
Sarah, I think you give Trump far too much credit in this article - it is preposterous to suggest that he "recognized how the SCOTUS decision legalizing same sex marriage marked the end of the road...." Trump, I assure you, never gave the remotest thought to that SCOTUS ruling, and to state that he "declined to weigh in on the religious right's new formula regarding gay rights and religious freedom" is, I believe, equally absurd. Trump is not given to analysis or thought, Sarah - he is a narcissistic, vulgar child who simply shoots from the hip whenever provoked, and seeks public adulation above all else. Similarly, he has not "exploited the evangelical divide on immigration" - he is and has been a birther, racist and xenophobe, and uses those messages to stoke his own ego by the throngs of equally racist, xenophobic crowds. If they applaud - he says, "Right?" "Right?" More applause. Trump knows nothing about religion, nor does he care. This entire appalling "campaign" is only about Trump's bottomless need for self-validation. God forbid if he managed to gain the White House. With respect to the evangelicals: their own hypocrisy is legion and omnipresent. It is worth noting that it is Hillary Clinton who remained in her marriage, not Donald Trump, who cheated on his first two wives, and will likely do so on his third as well. The best way to minimize the unholy and dangerous sway of right wing extremist Christians is to immediately terminate church tax exemptions.
21
Stop saying "no" to everything and 85% of their problems would be over and stop voting against "your own best interest
7
Basically, people who have been conned for their whole lives by churches have been conned by the republican party, what a surprise.
12
There's a reason Puritans were persecuted in Europe. They were easily recognized as the hysterical pious threat to human advancement they really were. Now we have to deal with them half way across the planet and we don't seem to be particularly successful at that. Maybe we can deploy them against their Wahhabist counterparts. Hopefully they'll get busy fighting with each other so the rest of us can focus on human progress.
19
Let's hope so. I have no interest in living in a theocracy. Organized religion, particularly the you-die-if-you-don't-believe kind, is the scourge of mankind, invented by people to enslave, take advantage of and to destroy others. (And to keep women in their place, I might add.) Was it the Doobie Brothers who sang, "What a fool believes"?
11
I can only hope so. Our country will be much better off if it is.
2
5
I really hope their time is at an end. Their insistence that this country is a "Christian nation" and their forcing of their particular religious beliefs upon the rest of us has been a burden upon this country for many years now. Their hypocrisy is citing sections of the Bible, while ignoring others, has been breathtaking. Their arrogance that they, alone, know the "word of God" is tiresome and has done much harm to this country. Their current attacks on the secular using the bogus "religious freedom" trope is underhanded and dishonest. In no way does one person's religious freedom depend on their ability to discriminate against others. Good riddance.
18
There is a certain hypocrisy here that is uncomfortable. I get both the implicit and explicit bias from the author's tone and her recent book. However, this idea that "conservative white evangelicals" is a thing is a stretch. Can you define those people, or is this just polarizing language designed to keep us all in our social and political classes without nuance? Do you know them by sight? Do they smell funny?
Trump isn’t the end of the religious right, he's merely a continuation of the same blind hypocrisy that has been their very foundation, albeit in a slightly different tone.
The religious right may say that they reject idol worship, but they actually have their own idols to worship: guns, money, the Bible, and political demagogues. They worship the actual physical flag but will all-too-gladly trample on the very rights and values that it stands to represent.
The religious right say they are “Christian” but they exemplify deeply un-Christian values, e.g. choosing material wealth over spirituality, violence over peace, intolerance over acceptance, judgment over love.
The religious right may say they advocate for “family values” and “sexual purity”, but the highest rates of STIs, divorce, and teen pregnancy are often found in Bible Belt states.
So, does Trump represent the end of the religious right? No. He’s merely the latest demonstration of how deep their hypocrisy can go.
The religious right may say that they reject idol worship, but they actually have their own idols to worship: guns, money, the Bible, and political demagogues. They worship the actual physical flag but will all-too-gladly trample on the very rights and values that it stands to represent.
The religious right say they are “Christian” but they exemplify deeply un-Christian values, e.g. choosing material wealth over spirituality, violence over peace, intolerance over acceptance, judgment over love.
The religious right may say they advocate for “family values” and “sexual purity”, but the highest rates of STIs, divorce, and teen pregnancy are often found in Bible Belt states.
So, does Trump represent the end of the religious right? No. He’s merely the latest demonstration of how deep their hypocrisy can go.
21
Can someone please define "conservative religious values" for me? After 30 years of watching this destructive side show in American politics, I still don't know what these people want or expect, other than for the rest of us to be like them or drop dead.
11
"This resulted in a lasting deal for Republican candidates: Pledge fealty to the “Christian nation,”"
I was born and raised a Catholic. I went to Catholic school thru the 12th grade. I think that qualifies me as someone who knows a bit about the teachings of Christ. If we were a truly Christian nation and if the so-called Evangelicals were truly Christian, we as a nation would be more welcoming to all immigrants; more willing to lend a hand, a home and a meal to our neighbors who need one (that's called welfare); and most importantly we would be providing free universal health care for all. The evangelicals may think they have a market on the faith, but they can't seem to grasp the concept of hope and charity. Christ would have thrown them out of the temple along with the money lenders.
I was born and raised a Catholic. I went to Catholic school thru the 12th grade. I think that qualifies me as someone who knows a bit about the teachings of Christ. If we were a truly Christian nation and if the so-called Evangelicals were truly Christian, we as a nation would be more welcoming to all immigrants; more willing to lend a hand, a home and a meal to our neighbors who need one (that's called welfare); and most importantly we would be providing free universal health care for all. The evangelicals may think they have a market on the faith, but they can't seem to grasp the concept of hope and charity. Christ would have thrown them out of the temple along with the money lenders.
16
... and isn't it ironic that the candidate with the most Christian proposals in this hideous election season is a Jewish senator from Vermont. Makes you wonder...
2
Religion is myth and superstition wedded to bigotry, stupidity, hysteria and psychosis, and evangelical so-called Christianity is a perfect manifestation of this pathological mindset. I have nothing good to say about people who maintain with 100% metaphysical certitude that the planet we live on is no more than 6,000 years old (and want this preposterous falsehood taught in the public schools as fact) or who insist that human beings co-existed with dinosaurs or that evolution is a lie (and want these falsehoods taught in the public schools as fact) or that climate change is a hoax or that natural and manmade disasters are a manifestation of God’s taking retribution on sinful humans. I have nothing good to say about a group of people who scream about family values but who support a political candidate who cheated on his first wife Ivana with Marla Maples, who fathered a daughter with Marla before marrying her, followed by divorcing her and taking a third wife, Melania Knauss, yet insist on legal protection under so-called religious freedom laws so they can refuse to bake a wedding cake, furnish flowers or cater a reception for a same-sex couple. Evangelical so-called Christianity is perversion and abomination. Jesus would not be a member of this fan club.
25
Perhaps some of this fade is the product of cohort replacement. The old and bitter eventually die. Their children attended school with openly gay and non-white students and - guess what - they turned out to be people too. A new world is opening to the children of exclusionary fundamentalists. They confront high education and housing costs alien to their parents' understanding. These issues supplant forcing everyone to think and act like you (in theory).
Some enclaves will always survive and enjoy inflated power as the US Senate and its arcane rules gives small population states disproportionate sway. Nationally, they wane and good riddance.
Some enclaves will always survive and enjoy inflated power as the US Senate and its arcane rules gives small population states disproportionate sway. Nationally, they wane and good riddance.
1
Mythology (other people's religion) is plastic. You can make it whatever you want it to be. That said, it is interesting how the Holy Roller Bible Thumpers look away at Drumpf's words and actions. Hillary is no better. As phony as a 3 dollar bill. "When someone shows you their true self, believe it" Maya Angelou. NEITHER in 2016!
Wow, it's almost like they're ignorant idiots. Who would have guessed?
3
You know an acquaintance is an evangelical when he doesn't say hello to you at the liquor store.
6
Well, in Marin and San Francisco Counties, California (Berkeley too) people don't say hello to you in a liquor store either, but it's because they are thinking about money, and whether you have enough to be one of "them". The Far Right and the Far Left are cut from the same cloth, so to speak.
I am happy to see their demise. I do not want any religion brought into government. You may worship who and what you want however one religion's beliefs should not become the law of the land.
7
The religious right has attempted to impose their anachronistic belief system on a democratic society for many generations. The Bible was written by people 2-3 thousand years ago who believed the earth was flat, and that most natural phenomenon were the result of the actions of a god or gods. We know now that most of the information in the bible, and other religious texts from the past, are inaccurate and provide no guidance to our modern, rational, science based human experience. The enlightenment of the 16th and 17th centuries was the result of throwing off the cloak of religious dogma and freed the human mind to objectively explore the natural world. If it was up to the religious right we would still be stoning people to death and promoting the Inquisition as a means to righteousness.
3
"Mr. Trump has frequently proclaimed that when he is president it will be acceptable to start “saying ‘Merry Christmas’ again!” as if the so-called war on Christmas is the sum total of the movement’s religious freedom concerns."
It IS though. What they, the Trump voters, must feel is resentment, whether legitimately or through being steeped in the Fox/TalkRadio bubble; what they desire above all is Victory! with a capital 'V', and again it doesn't matter over what. The less specific the better in fact. Modernity, that's what. Liberalism, that's what. This is the same dynamic that drives all those familiar movements we can't mention without a Godwin violation, but there's nothing covert about it here. The affirmative creeds of "conservatism" or "Christian" fundamentalism, insofar as they exist will all be rationalized away in the name of the Tr[i]ump]h]! they desire. All these substantive contradictions will continue to have no force because they aren't really the point.
It IS though. What they, the Trump voters, must feel is resentment, whether legitimately or through being steeped in the Fox/TalkRadio bubble; what they desire above all is Victory! with a capital 'V', and again it doesn't matter over what. The less specific the better in fact. Modernity, that's what. Liberalism, that's what. This is the same dynamic that drives all those familiar movements we can't mention without a Godwin violation, but there's nothing covert about it here. The affirmative creeds of "conservatism" or "Christian" fundamentalism, insofar as they exist will all be rationalized away in the name of the Tr[i]ump]h]! they desire. All these substantive contradictions will continue to have no force because they aren't really the point.
1
The religious right could vote for the candidate who is most concerned about the poor, the sick and the homeless. Or they could vote for the billionaire who is now asking them for money to pave the way to the White House and is most concerned with his own accomplishments. Seems pretty simple. But alas the overt racism in the latter is just so refreshing....
"The end of the religious right, you ask? I sure hope so. I am counting on it, but not holding my breath.
5
I believe in a creator of my own choosing, & I support my faith, but I believe that religion like any other movement must evolve for it to endure.I am pleased to see that evangelicals are capable of being flexible, which may be the beginning of a new era in fundamentalism.They may even become some what secular.
That a portion of Evangelicals support Trump is encouraging, it shows they are no different then the rest of us, when it comes to putting bread on the table.There may still be hope for our Nation.
That a portion of Evangelicals support Trump is encouraging, it shows they are no different then the rest of us, when it comes to putting bread on the table.There may still be hope for our Nation.
1
"Is this the end of the Religious Right?"
Not until well-meaning parents stop indoctrinating their children before their brains are developed enough for critical thinking, logic and reason.
Religions could not survive without childhood indoctrination.
Not until well-meaning parents stop indoctrinating their children before their brains are developed enough for critical thinking, logic and reason.
Religions could not survive without childhood indoctrination.
4
"For more than 30 years, religious conservatives have been a loyal and, crucially, a predictable voting bloc for the Republicans. This resulted in a lasting deal for Republican candidates: Pledge fealty to the “Christian nation,” promise to ban abortion and (at one time) same-sex marriage, and evangelicals will form an essential and reliable segment of your voting base."
Actually, its called a deal with the devil.
Actually, its called a deal with the devil.
1
I sure hope it's the end of the religious right movement. A movement that has been destructive to most ideas behind the founding of our country, including, separation of church and state.
4
"Is this the end of the Religious Right?"
I certainly hope so.
I certainly hope so.
1
I am quietly non-religious. I wish the religious right were quiet too.
4
The Religious Right has a problem and that is their children don't buy it. The tired old white folks of this group will soon be the dead old white folks. Views do change -- and your children may change your views more than you know. This is especially true for the "mothers" who listen better. They will still be a factor, but it gets less each election.
5
This article took several hundred words to demonstrate once again the old Goldman quote, "Nobody knows anythng."
1
From your words to God's ears!
2
This is a good opportunity to point out that religion is great when it focuses inwardly but usually bad when it tries to solve problems with religious based solutions rather than pragmatics. I am not as off-topic as I sound. Democrats engaged blacks in the 60s- forward, in their churches with little by way of indoctrinating the rest of the country to Southern Baptism. The GOP can do this same if they're smart (which they may not be)
The Religious Right has been a fiasco. Everything it has opposed for 35 years has come to pass. Time to retreat to their churches and communities and await the Lord's judgment on Sodom and Gomorrah.
1
No, it is not the end of the "religious right." It may be the end, though, of the extremist fringe of the religious right. God, I hope so.
In this respect, the religious right, whether or not considered an intrinsic element of the insurgent Tea Party, has helped to propel our politics (and culture clash) to our current crisis point. It may be too fine a distinction, but the extremist fringe of the religious right wants our nation to openly adopt and be governed by their ill-informed version of Christianity (think Alabama Chief Justice Roy Moore). They preach and practice superiority, intolerance and exclusion. They're somehow more comfortable with and derive presence if not meaning from public displays of piety.
Alternatively, many people who may consider themselves members of the religious right are strong and comfortable in themselves, live their lives (at least their private lives) in accordance with their beliefs and, significantly, don't use their religion to bludgeon, demean, exclude or control others. These people, who comprise the larger faction within the religious right, will be a political force for the foreseeable future. Some would argue that this presence is beneficial if not necessary.
In this respect, the religious right, whether or not considered an intrinsic element of the insurgent Tea Party, has helped to propel our politics (and culture clash) to our current crisis point. It may be too fine a distinction, but the extremist fringe of the religious right wants our nation to openly adopt and be governed by their ill-informed version of Christianity (think Alabama Chief Justice Roy Moore). They preach and practice superiority, intolerance and exclusion. They're somehow more comfortable with and derive presence if not meaning from public displays of piety.
Alternatively, many people who may consider themselves members of the religious right are strong and comfortable in themselves, live their lives (at least their private lives) in accordance with their beliefs and, significantly, don't use their religion to bludgeon, demean, exclude or control others. These people, who comprise the larger faction within the religious right, will be a political force for the foreseeable future. Some would argue that this presence is beneficial if not necessary.
3
The rise of the Religious Right marks the moment when Fundamentalists decided they could no longer depend on their god. They knew then--and know now, their insistence on creationsim textbooks notwithstanding--that their iron-age myths lay destroyed before modern science. God did not show his spiritual power, so they turned to the getting of worldly power. This was a last ditch effort to buy god a little time to finally come through for them.
What do you do when you know the jig is up, your religion is dying, but you don't want to admit it to yourself? Look to the Religious Right and you will see.
What do you do when you know the jig is up, your religion is dying, but you don't want to admit it to yourself? Look to the Religious Right and you will see.
3
"Mr. Trump acts more like a televangelist than an evangelical."
David hit the nail on the head. This is Trump's trump card in wooing the evangelicals. Trump is the Elmer Gantry of the GOP candidates and completely in sync with any of those phony, rich televangelists (e.g., Jim and Tammy Faye Bakker, Jimmy Swaggart, and lots more) who dupe and fleece their adoring fans by playing the religious card.
While most of what these phonies (and Trump is one phony for sure) say makes little sense cognitively, they manage to speak to their fans on a highly emotional level (Palin is another one), and that is what their fans feel comfortable with and seek.
Plus, there is nothing evangelicals like better than a sinner who claims to be religious, embraces Jesus, and says that he/she struggles every day--just like they do--with trying to refrain from sinning. But Jesus does forgive, you know, and tomorrow is another day.
There will never be an end to the religious right in America, and there are a thousand reasons--many rooted in our brand of capitalism--why it sells so well in this country.
David hit the nail on the head. This is Trump's trump card in wooing the evangelicals. Trump is the Elmer Gantry of the GOP candidates and completely in sync with any of those phony, rich televangelists (e.g., Jim and Tammy Faye Bakker, Jimmy Swaggart, and lots more) who dupe and fleece their adoring fans by playing the religious card.
While most of what these phonies (and Trump is one phony for sure) say makes little sense cognitively, they manage to speak to their fans on a highly emotional level (Palin is another one), and that is what their fans feel comfortable with and seek.
Plus, there is nothing evangelicals like better than a sinner who claims to be religious, embraces Jesus, and says that he/she struggles every day--just like they do--with trying to refrain from sinning. But Jesus does forgive, you know, and tomorrow is another day.
There will never be an end to the religious right in America, and there are a thousand reasons--many rooted in our brand of capitalism--why it sells so well in this country.
3
The one good outcome of the Trump ascendancy would be the destruction of these ignorant, malicious bigots once and for all.
6
I love this comment: "For a constituency that has made conservative religious values, sexual purity and Bible-driven policy the cornerstone of its politics,...". Isn't that demographic the one with the highest teen and out of wedlock birth rate? Does not compute.
8
No, I disagree entirely with this argument. I'm not an evangelical (I am a agnostic) but I think the media is missing one big elephant in the room.
The Republican party has failed economically (35 years of trickle down economics has not raised the wages or standard of living for a majority of Americans), failed to overturn the ACA, lost battles on gay rights and abortion, and has generally failed to stop the inevitable "march towards Socialism" that many conservatives fear.
Because of this many Republicans are angry at their party and its leadership. Trump is everything stated in the article AND the ultimate big stick to jump start the Republican party.
Evangelical's realize that they have lost the cultural wars, the heathens have won, but the Republican party has failed them. They just don't know where to turn.
The Republican party has failed economically (35 years of trickle down economics has not raised the wages or standard of living for a majority of Americans), failed to overturn the ACA, lost battles on gay rights and abortion, and has generally failed to stop the inevitable "march towards Socialism" that many conservatives fear.
Because of this many Republicans are angry at their party and its leadership. Trump is everything stated in the article AND the ultimate big stick to jump start the Republican party.
Evangelical's realize that they have lost the cultural wars, the heathens have won, but the Republican party has failed them. They just don't know where to turn.
2
I believe the Republican Party cynically whipped white Southern and rural voters into a religious frenzy over abortion once race became a taboo battle cry.
So the party should not be surprised that its 'base' is susceptible to being cynically whipped up by other negative messaging.
So the party should not be surprised that its 'base' is susceptible to being cynically whipped up by other negative messaging.
3
Is This the End of the Religious Right?
No, this anti-Christ movement, which stomps on Jesus' every word, will continue to live on to spread bigotry, homophobia, misogyny, racism and xenophobia.
No, this anti-Christ movement, which stomps on Jesus' every word, will continue to live on to spread bigotry, homophobia, misogyny, racism and xenophobia.
4
Is This the End of the Religious Right?
We can only hope and pray!
Jerry NYC
We can only hope and pray!
Jerry NYC
2
"For a constituency that has made conservative religious values, sexual purity and Bible-driven policy the cornerstone of its politics"
You cannot accurately say that of them, without noting too the extreme hypocrisy they've shown again and again for many years. They apply that to others, not to their own. From Gingrich to Vitter to Mr. Wide Stance, they overlook it in their own.
Trump is just one more like that. If he's different, that would need explanation that starts with acknowledging the basic hypocrisy always applied.
"demonstrated that many Republican voters, and even many evangelical Republicans, were more swept up in Trump-style nativist culture wars than battles over abortion, marriage or, especially, bathrooms."
It is noteworthy that the Trump style is comfortable to them, much like the revivalist style of big tent hellfire and damnation preaching. That does not always make much sense either, but the style moves these specific voters.
"Many historically Republican evangelicals may stay home, or vote for the Democrat or a third party."
"Many?" How many? Is it more or less than the Bernie voters who will do the same because of Hillary.
Elections are contests, relative measures of the two sides, not absolutes. If Bernie voters are even more offended by Hillary, then Trump comes out ahead. It is only half done to view this one side as an absolute weakness in a contest of relative weaknesses of two widely disliked candidates.
You cannot accurately say that of them, without noting too the extreme hypocrisy they've shown again and again for many years. They apply that to others, not to their own. From Gingrich to Vitter to Mr. Wide Stance, they overlook it in their own.
Trump is just one more like that. If he's different, that would need explanation that starts with acknowledging the basic hypocrisy always applied.
"demonstrated that many Republican voters, and even many evangelical Republicans, were more swept up in Trump-style nativist culture wars than battles over abortion, marriage or, especially, bathrooms."
It is noteworthy that the Trump style is comfortable to them, much like the revivalist style of big tent hellfire and damnation preaching. That does not always make much sense either, but the style moves these specific voters.
"Many historically Republican evangelicals may stay home, or vote for the Democrat or a third party."
"Many?" How many? Is it more or less than the Bernie voters who will do the same because of Hillary.
Elections are contests, relative measures of the two sides, not absolutes. If Bernie voters are even more offended by Hillary, then Trump comes out ahead. It is only half done to view this one side as an absolute weakness in a contest of relative weaknesses of two widely disliked candidates.
17
I just wonder how many of the religious conservatives will "hold their nose", compromise their rigid ideology and vote for Trump anyways to defeat the evil Hillary. What I find more interesting is the so called war on religion. I think the religious right is merely finding out the majority of Americans are finally pushing back against the repeated attempts to put their particular religious tenets into public law and legalize discrimination against other religions, the non religious and any group that does not meet their criteria. There is no war on religion, there is a war to prevent one religion or sect from becoming superior to any other.
76
American-style Christianity started its downward spiral when it joined forces with politics years ago. Its unsuccessful attempt to legislate particular behavior fomented division, not inspiration. You just can't find a lot of common values between what Jesus taught and what Rush Limbaugh, all the prosperity preachers, the mega-money churches who help only themselves, and the militant, hate-filled church members teach these days. If Christianity survives long term, it will need a true and humble revival with a renewed focus on being kind to the poor, not judging, and giving away riches. Not a focus on bathroom issues and making up women's minds for them concerning abortion. Not focusing on "Merry Christmas" - the most non-Jesus-like issue of all. Live it ---don't talk (or yell) it.
87
Interestingly, Christianity only comprises about one third of the planet's population of 7.2 billion. After two thousand years of effort, nearly 5 billion still completely reject the idea of Jesus as their "savior."
I think a line from that old song about Santa Claus has it about right. "So be good for goodness sake."
I think a line from that old song about Santa Claus has it about right. "So be good for goodness sake."
2
Elizabeth,
Nailed it! Well written. Thanks.
Nailed it! Well written. Thanks.
2
I suspect that "Christianity" could once again have appeal if more contemporary "Christians" would follow Christ's command to "love one's neighbor" and follow St. Francis' advice: "Preach always and when necessary even use words."
As it is, too many "Christians" are a blight upon Christianity. Christianity, however, has never failed. How could it have? Like Communism, it has never really been tried.
As it is, too many "Christians" are a blight upon Christianity. Christianity, however, has never failed. How could it have? Like Communism, it has never really been tried.
1
Evangelicals, as a voting block, occurred because they showed up Sunday after Sunday, listening to pastors who'd been carefully courted by the Right. Part of religion involves Group Think. Especially among evangelicals, it would appear.
But maybe - even while still "believers" - these folks are doing a bit of thinking for themselves. I'll give them that!
They may be thinking more independently now. But what will happen over time when the apparent contradictions (between voting for Trump and reading the Bible) cause huge cognitive dissonance?
But maybe - even while still "believers" - these folks are doing a bit of thinking for themselves. I'll give them that!
They may be thinking more independently now. But what will happen over time when the apparent contradictions (between voting for Trump and reading the Bible) cause huge cognitive dissonance?
6
It would appear most of the religious 'right' haven't the intelligence or awareness to have any cognitive dissonance with Trump. They haven't even the ability to recognize the errors, contradictions, and frequent vile aspects of their so-called 'Holy Book', the Bible, not to mention their hypocrisy. They seem to prefer to bask in the cesspool of their questionable emotionalism, and not much else.
And not a moment too soon. Good riddance.
52
Rather than becoming more enlightened, whole swaths of poorly educated Americans are becoming more superstitious, more tribal, and more fearful by the day. And at this point there is little to be done about it until large numbers of these folks die off and the more secular youth take their places. I don't know how you get a nation of Balkan-like states to advance at the same level, but as long as Bible-based or Bible-informed instruction is taking place in public schools and corporate mega-churches continue to enjoy tax-free existence, we are doomed.
That said, as a public school teacher, I largely see this as a failure of public education. When large numbers of states employ teachers who believe the literal word of the Bible and denounce evolution as just a "theory," our devolution as a nation and as a society are virtually assured.
At some point, thinking individuals need to fish or cut bait. Moving to Canada is my solution and plans are underway to do just that. More and more intellectually mature people are thinking the same thing. Let the brain-drain begin.
That said, as a public school teacher, I largely see this as a failure of public education. When large numbers of states employ teachers who believe the literal word of the Bible and denounce evolution as just a "theory," our devolution as a nation and as a society are virtually assured.
At some point, thinking individuals need to fish or cut bait. Moving to Canada is my solution and plans are underway to do just that. More and more intellectually mature people are thinking the same thing. Let the brain-drain begin.
49
I am inclined to agree with your explanation. Until the hard core right divests themselves from the influence of big money politicians and their Free Market ideologies toward education (read: Charter Schools draining money from public education) the dumbing down of our children will continue. Let's face it, a dumb and ignorant population cannot make informed decisions for themselves.
1
Elmer Gantry for a new century.
8
the lies this conservative evangelicals have been spreading through out the years are sickening to the core and so unchristian like. They have some habits and beliefs that Thrump has. People now a days are smarter than in the past. So I can see what this cult is loosing it's grip
8
Why does opposition to abortion and same-sex marriage translate to being conservative? The underlying truth is that those religious principles and the "War on Christmas" have been used to lure evangelicals into the right wing of the Republican Party.
Being truly conservative might mean recognizing the utility of separation of church and state. That goes back to the founding of the nation and its constitutional roots.
There are clusters of other attributes that go along with being an evangelical Christian at this time. Mr. Trump has proved adept at inciting the emotions that go along with those attributes. They also aren't really "conservative resentments."
Donald Trump's contribution to our nation's political history is that he has exposed the lack of conservatism in the religious fervor of a segment of the Republican base. Politicians have used or misused the feelings of that segment of our population with great success. It will be a good thing if that exploitation comes to an end.
Being truly conservative might mean recognizing the utility of separation of church and state. That goes back to the founding of the nation and its constitutional roots.
There are clusters of other attributes that go along with being an evangelical Christian at this time. Mr. Trump has proved adept at inciting the emotions that go along with those attributes. They also aren't really "conservative resentments."
Donald Trump's contribution to our nation's political history is that he has exposed the lack of conservatism in the religious fervor of a segment of the Republican base. Politicians have used or misused the feelings of that segment of our population with great success. It will be a good thing if that exploitation comes to an end.
7
The religious right isn't going anywhere.
Oh, wait - we are talking about guns, aren't we?
Oh, wait - we are talking about guns, aren't we?
1
I wish you were right, but history suggests otherwise. Sadly, it seems that with most organized religions there is a desire on behalf of its leaders to subjugate and persecute others and a desire by the believers to be subjugated. Confining this comment to Christianity, from the very beginning at Nicea, when apostates and heretics were officially persecuted to the crusades, the slaughter of Cathars, the various inquisitions, the complete intolerance of the Reformers for other varieties of Christian faith, to the dealings of the Puritans with their Quaker brethren and the genocide of the Pequot, to the Scopes Monkey Trial to the present day, nothing much has changed.
It is a contract between the leaders and the led. The led give unquestioning obedience to the leaders in exchange for absolute certainty of their faith and the right to sit in judgment of others. In none of this do I see evidence of Jesus' teachings.
It is a contract between the leaders and the led. The led give unquestioning obedience to the leaders in exchange for absolute certainty of their faith and the right to sit in judgment of others. In none of this do I see evidence of Jesus' teachings.
25
Steve is correct in his views on the subject. I'd go one step further and submit that organized religion from the earliest times is the root of evil in the world. Humans have learned very early on how to exploit the masses with threats of damnation, torture and death in order to secure there own power and wealth. Those humans were called bishops, cardinals, popes, rabbis and their subjugated masses were lemmings, kept ignorant and frightened. A great tradition kept alive today by the likes of Drump.
The picture accompanying this article says it all. Old, white and not relevant.
26
Being conditioned to believe in virgin birth and return from the dead it makes it so much easier to be led by someone like Donald Trump. Throw in the belief that Jesus was blue eyed with brown hair, and it makes it even easier. Conservative christianity is a club, where membership means far more than anything Jesus taught, and where the Golden Rule is more about he who has the most gold gets to make the rules than how one treats others. Donald Trump and the religionists are a match made in heaven, but the road Trump promises to pave would take us in a far different direction.
19
"But Mr. Trump’s misogynistic and racist language drove these evangelicals away from him."
I must disagree with Ms. Posner on what is otherwise an insightful article.
Evangelicals are among the most racist and misogynistic of all right wingers, ignoring Jesus' example of compassion regarding all people re: the former, and using the Bible to put women in their proper place.
The strange bedfellows: theocrats who want sharia-Christian law and the ultra-wealthy who probably, like a shining example of their greed, The Donald, don't know Corinthians from Coral snakes, may be headed for a divorce.
If Trump succeeds at blowing up the Jesus-first crowd while he splinters the GOP, it will have been worth being exposed to his daily rantings.
I must disagree with Ms. Posner on what is otherwise an insightful article.
Evangelicals are among the most racist and misogynistic of all right wingers, ignoring Jesus' example of compassion regarding all people re: the former, and using the Bible to put women in their proper place.
The strange bedfellows: theocrats who want sharia-Christian law and the ultra-wealthy who probably, like a shining example of their greed, The Donald, don't know Corinthians from Coral snakes, may be headed for a divorce.
If Trump succeeds at blowing up the Jesus-first crowd while he splinters the GOP, it will have been worth being exposed to his daily rantings.
46
I think the " religious right" got truly into politics under Reagan, who was hardly an example of " Christian purity". I don't think he even went to church. But he was smart enough to know who to kiss up to. Before him it was a non- issue, even with a true born again, Jimmy Carter, in office.
2
The GOP has over the last several decades craftily used and abused the religious right and Southern whites to form a toxic brew of voters who were focused on one or two personal issues as opposed to what was best for our country.
Subsequent generations scoff at the phony Christianity espoused by too-white adults, who wrap themselves in the flag and carry a cross but who are as threatening to our democracy as the Taliban or ISIS.
Subsequent generations scoff at the phony Christianity espoused by too-white adults, who wrap themselves in the flag and carry a cross but who are as threatening to our democracy as the Taliban or ISIS.
38
It has its origins in the push-back against the bible based movement championed by MLK and his "I have a dream" sermon and the March on Washington. That scared the beJesus out of segregationists.
The search for biblical counteraction began immediately thereafter. Being chocked full of contradictions, the bible was fertile material from which to find justification for anti-Christian rhetoric and behavior.
How much more clear could it be? Thou shall not kill vs. capital punishment. You can find support for either in the bible. Cherry pick as you will, but by all means, let your pastor be the final judge and jury. Jesus' teaching is ignored.
The search for biblical counteraction began immediately thereafter. Being chocked full of contradictions, the bible was fertile material from which to find justification for anti-Christian rhetoric and behavior.
How much more clear could it be? Thou shall not kill vs. capital punishment. You can find support for either in the bible. Cherry pick as you will, but by all means, let your pastor be the final judge and jury. Jesus' teaching is ignored.
The pendulum could swing dangerously back to right-wing religious extremism.
2
Come on, you all know Trump by now, he thinks the evangelicals are a joke --- a private joke, but a joke.
4
The "religious right" and the "moral majority" and the "southern strategy" were all creatures of the Nixon administration enabling racists to wrap their arms around Jesus in a corruption of Christianity that has been a Republican bulwark ever since. While Genesis teaches ensoulment upon taking breath: "And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." Conservatives persuaded the Southern Baptist Convention to adopt the Roman Catholic view that life begins at conception. This added an anti-feminist bias to the racism that Republicans embraced in response to civil rights legislation.
Cruelty was sanctified. In "good conscience", one could be a racist, subordinate all women, and cruelly denigrate the poor who were not favored by "God". Prosperity Christians flourish while we invade country after country killing millions, and like Paul Ryan, an Ayn Rand Catholic, we incentivize the poor by cutting unemployment benefits, food stamps, and try to hand Social Security over to Wall St. In the name of the lord?
The religious "Right" have always been wrong. Their faith is twisted to satisfy political expediency, exploitation, and lust for power. They embrace Trump because they have no moral compass. They are and have always been an embarrassment. Trump is just a perfect illustration of the absolute lack of integrity that evangelists have achieved.
Then there's the First Amendment!
Cruelty was sanctified. In "good conscience", one could be a racist, subordinate all women, and cruelly denigrate the poor who were not favored by "God". Prosperity Christians flourish while we invade country after country killing millions, and like Paul Ryan, an Ayn Rand Catholic, we incentivize the poor by cutting unemployment benefits, food stamps, and try to hand Social Security over to Wall St. In the name of the lord?
The religious "Right" have always been wrong. Their faith is twisted to satisfy political expediency, exploitation, and lust for power. They embrace Trump because they have no moral compass. They are and have always been an embarrassment. Trump is just a perfect illustration of the absolute lack of integrity that evangelists have achieved.
Then there's the First Amendment!
23
Your headline said it all - is this the end of the religious right? I hope to God it is. Those hateful evangelicals are one of the worst things to happen to our country. It is time for people to realize that religion and religious values are a personal choice, not something that should be shoved down everybody's throats.
33
End of the Religious Right? No, not hardly. They may be down but not out. We can rely on on religious fanaticism to return every time there are hard, difficult times facing the people. Religion gives some people something to reach out to or hold on to when there is little or no hope left. In other words a "savior".
The Savior card is what Ron Reagan played so effectively and now we been stuck with it as a sort of trump (no pun intended) card in politics ever since.
The Savior card is what Ron Reagan played so effectively and now we been stuck with it as a sort of trump (no pun intended) card in politics ever since.
7
This "end of the religious right" has been occurring for a few years now.
In the 2012 NY Times piece "the Decline of Evangelical America" - the author states that in 2012:
1) the religious right failed to have any impact on the primaries
2) Pew research results from 2011 detailed how Evangelical ministers believe "that their movement was losing ground."
and finally
3) the majority of young people are quitting the Evangelical movement.
It's good to know that four years after that 2012 article - their "influence" is still held in check. That they should endorse Donald Trump is proof positive that the movement has gone off the rails.
In the 2012 NY Times piece "the Decline of Evangelical America" - the author states that in 2012:
1) the religious right failed to have any impact on the primaries
2) Pew research results from 2011 detailed how Evangelical ministers believe "that their movement was losing ground."
and finally
3) the majority of young people are quitting the Evangelical movement.
It's good to know that four years after that 2012 article - their "influence" is still held in check. That they should endorse Donald Trump is proof positive that the movement has gone off the rails.
5
The "Religious Right" is neither. It deserves extinction.
15
The end of the religious right???
God, let's hope so.
God, let's hope so.
15
In a way, the Evangelicals have driven away from the Republican party those who are religious but not Christian. Gandhi was opposed to abortion as was Mother Teresa as was MLK. The Pope is opposed to abortion even though he is liberal in other ways and father Daniel Berrigan who was a leftist was also opposed to abortion. The Dalai Lama thinks of abortion as something which should be far more an exception than the rule.
None of these people are/were white Protestants.
The opposition to unlimited abortion on demand is wide spread - abortion is banned or limited in most of Latin America where there are not too many Protestant white men.
By saying "We are the only ones who will fight for the unborn", the evangelicals have done them a disservice. For all their hysteria they have failed to make any progress against abortion. Meanwhile the Republican party has used their blind loyalty to fatten the 1%.
Many thanks to Trump for breaking up this charade.
None of these people are/were white Protestants.
The opposition to unlimited abortion on demand is wide spread - abortion is banned or limited in most of Latin America where there are not too many Protestant white men.
By saying "We are the only ones who will fight for the unborn", the evangelicals have done them a disservice. For all their hysteria they have failed to make any progress against abortion. Meanwhile the Republican party has used their blind loyalty to fatten the 1%.
Many thanks to Trump for breaking up this charade.
5
I am not a believer, but I can see that whenever a religious sect hitches itself to a political party, it sacrifices its divine authority for human authority. It replaces spiritual and ethical goals with commerce in money, power and expedience. And if the party or its leaders are discredited, then so is the sect attached to it.
When the mullahs in Iran backed the unpopular President Ahmedinejad in his crooked re-election, everypne saw they were expedient rather than Godly. Here we have the Religious Right letting politics shape doctrine, subverting their own principles to gain power. The Founders established our separation between church and state not only to protect individual freedom of conscience but also to protect religion from being twisted and corrupted by power.
When the mullahs in Iran backed the unpopular President Ahmedinejad in his crooked re-election, everypne saw they were expedient rather than Godly. Here we have the Religious Right letting politics shape doctrine, subverting their own principles to gain power. The Founders established our separation between church and state not only to protect individual freedom of conscience but also to protect religion from being twisted and corrupted by power.
10
Looks like the theocracy will be delayed but don't bet on being rid of the American Taliban just yet.
17
The church/business model used by "mega" churches is about selling a political message wrapped in the name of Christ.
Most of the self-identified Christian-Right will tell you that the Bible was written by God. Blind religious superstition brought to you by the deliberately ignorant.
fwa
Most of the self-identified Christian-Right will tell you that the Bible was written by God. Blind religious superstition brought to you by the deliberately ignorant.
fwa
12
Actually, Trump is a perfect fit for this group of people. Like him, they love to hate.
9
Of the millions of people that identify as Christians in this country only a small percentage have a true relationship with Jesus Christ. This is true not only in this country but throughout the World and has been since the church began. There are many admirers of Jesus and they like the benefits of church membership and they agree with many of the teachings of the Bible but they are not true "followers" of Jesus. Jesus knew this would happen as He states in ( Matthew 7:14) " Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it". One might ask how could such an institution, the Christian church, have had so much influence on human history and continues today to be so influential when its number of committed followers has always been so small compared to the population as a whole? The answer , of course, is that we are dealing with God Himself and He has the power and authority to do whatever He wants.
Another nice example of the "No true Scotsman" fallacy. What qualifies you to comment on the sincerity of the religious beliefs of others?
4
We can only hope so. We will all be better served when religious practice becomes a private rather than an all-too public part of our lives, when some folks stop believing that it's equally important that not only they, but also everyone else, live according to their beliefs.
7
Is This the End of the Religious Right? One can only pray.
15
Two thoughts: 1. Article 6 of the constitution clearly forbids a religious test for holding office, and 2. Why is it that racist organizations (like David Duke and the klan) and evangelicals are both so comfortable under the GOP tent?
6
I'll start off by pointing out that, once again, the media fails to understand the difference between "evangelical" and "fundamentalist." Evangelicals can be liberal Christians (who, for example, support gay marriage) or conservative (fundamentalist) Christians. To be an evangelical means you are a person of faith who proclaims the Gospel and you may or may not adhere to a strict interpretation of scripture. Fundamentalists adhere to a strict interpretation of scripture.
So, we're really talking the decline of "fundamentalist" influence in Republican politics.
If you look at the history of fundamentalist influence in politics. it comes and goes in waves. Fundamentalists (and some other evangelicals) were very active in politics in the early 20th century. Their activism led to prohibition. However, when prohibition ended, they withdrew from politics for several decades. They eventually returned to politics in reaction to Communism, the sexual revolution, and other issues.
So, we're really talking the decline of "fundamentalist" influence in Republican politics.
If you look at the history of fundamentalist influence in politics. it comes and goes in waves. Fundamentalists (and some other evangelicals) were very active in politics in the early 20th century. Their activism led to prohibition. However, when prohibition ended, they withdrew from politics for several decades. They eventually returned to politics in reaction to Communism, the sexual revolution, and other issues.
4
The end of Evangenitals in politics, cherish the thought.
10
I sure hope it's the end--they have been nothing but a negative divisive force in politics for decades.
11
When the botom drops out of the economy and millions are foreclosed from their homes, and the talk radio men tell their listeners that the Invisible Hand of the Market will make all things right though we may not see its great pupose, and that its failures of the Market are only the fault of those who sin against its gospel, we're dealing with a theology, all right. The First Commandment comes to mind.
5
As is stated elsewhere in this section, the separation of church and state was a major plank in our founders' approach to a new country.
Now, I consider myself a moderate Republican with respect to political/economic ideas and actions. I have long chafed at the hold the religious evangelicals have had on the GOP. Abortion, gay rights, etc. do not belong in a political discussion and I hope the time is coming where these evangelicals will be flushed out of their caves and forced to try to understand that the world, in this day and time, does not revolve around them and their beliefs.
Further, evangelicals have forced me to recognize and admit that I am a non believer.
Now, I consider myself a moderate Republican with respect to political/economic ideas and actions. I have long chafed at the hold the religious evangelicals have had on the GOP. Abortion, gay rights, etc. do not belong in a political discussion and I hope the time is coming where these evangelicals will be flushed out of their caves and forced to try to understand that the world, in this day and time, does not revolve around them and their beliefs.
Further, evangelicals have forced me to recognize and admit that I am a non believer.
9
Serious Biblical scholars know that the policies and legislation of the Democratic party, in general, are truer to the tenets of the Gospel than are the policies and legislation of the Republican Party. This is why it has been so difficult for Mainstream Christians, who are lovers of the Gospel and who value education, to watch the Evangelicals be snookered by the GOP.
5
If the religious right had practiced what Jesus actually taught-- loving your neighbor as yourself, quietly praying in private, and helping the poor-- I'd be out there with them. Instead, much of the Evangelical movement has morphed into a prosperity gospel loving/neighbor hating party.
Jesus was incensed by the money lenders in the temple. Jesus helped the poor and disenfranchised of his day. If he were alive now, my guess is he wouldn't care what bathroom people use or try to meddle in other people's bodies. The "Religious" Right deserves to die; their version of Christianity is not the one Jesus practiced.
Jesus was incensed by the money lenders in the temple. Jesus helped the poor and disenfranchised of his day. If he were alive now, my guess is he wouldn't care what bathroom people use or try to meddle in other people's bodies. The "Religious" Right deserves to die; their version of Christianity is not the one Jesus practiced.
894
Hear, hear.
3
I have a reaction to your statement that Jesus wouldn't care what bathroom people use or try to meddle in other people's body. In reflecting God, I imagine that Jesus cared very widely. For example, he defended the adulterous woman and commanded her, 'Go, and sin no more'. He also meddled in people's body, as indicated by accounts of healing and feeding the hungry, even washing feet. Jesus did not practice Christianity; he was a Jew. I have no wish for atheism to die out. Christianity has found many forms in its history and if looked at closely enough may reveal their beauty along with their ugliness. To those who have taken a wrong turn, may they find forgiveness and turn again.
3
Read "One Nation Under God; How Corporate America Invented Christian America" by Kevin Kruse.
The words of Jesus, and the rest of the Bible, were to be interpreted any way that made greed look good and love of one's neighbor look like Godless communism.
The words of Jesus, and the rest of the Bible, were to be interpreted any way that made greed look good and love of one's neighbor look like Godless communism.
Toodles Religious Right, it has always been a marriage of convenience for the Repunblicans anyway. Also a grating misnomer...Neither 'Religious'- certainly not in a 'Christian'- i.e. 'Christ-like' sense; nor 'Right' as in 'correct'. Only 'right' as in a pre-fix....to 'winger'
5
The headline poses the wrong question. Has gay marriage taken a back seat? Yes. Have the religious right gone away? No. You've made the mistake in assuming that the religious right are only swaying politics and significant in social issues. In fact, the religious right is equally obsessed with supply-side economics and bombing "others" in His name as they are with school prayer and creationism. They've got plenty of reasons to stick with politics, in general, and the Republican Party, in particular.
You will know that the Religious Right has come to an end when their social clubs (a.k.a. "Churches") lose their ridiculous tax-exempt status.
You will know that the Religious Right has come to an end when their social clubs (a.k.a. "Churches") lose their ridiculous tax-exempt status.
10
Is This the End of the Religious Right?
If only...
If only...
5
I wonder if the GOP's aversion to facts, math, history and science stems in part from the increased influence of these so-called "Christian" conservative voters in its ranks. These folks blithely ignore or deride reality in favor of any self-serving fairy tales their corrupt leaders choose to flatter them with, so long as their leaders claim to speak for God. As Ross Douthat pointed out recently, their support for an irreligious hedonist like Trump proves they are "not religious or values voters after all... but rather... drawn to Trump's identity politics," which is a polite way of saying his white supremacist message. The day their influence on our country's politics fades away will be a beautiful day.
7
One can only hope. The one bright spot in an otherwise bleak prospect of a Trump presidency is the demise of the hypocrites of the religious right. Good riddance.
4
Five words: Separation. Of. Church. And. State.
12
Amen to the end of evangelicals in politics. May god grant them the wisdom to see the wickedness of religion in politics. Peace be with as they return to live privately within their own eternal light.
4
Christian Religious Fundamentalists always seemed to be stuck in the OLD Testament and never read the New and The Sermon on the Mount. How they can call themselves Christian is a mystery. Someone should tell them the Old Testament is a Jewish book.
8
The alliance of the Religious Right and the Republican Party is less about piety and more about cynicism. In the 1970s, evangelical leaders were anxious to keep the tax exempt status of their all-white Christian Academies, and this is where Republicans were crucial in advancing this underlying agenda. Everything else that followed, such as the pro-life hysteria, was adopted by both sides as a defining wedge issue. Don't believe it. Evangelical Christians, like most base Republicans, are far more motivated by animus to darker skin hues than reproductive choice. Donald Trump's remarkable standing with this demographic should not surprise at all. Strip away the pro-forma denials and just look at the exit polls. Evangelical Christians are among Trump's biggest supporters.
6
Christian Rightists are all about ME. God loves ME. God will protect ME and MINE. God will bless ME with wealth and health.
Trump is also all about ME: I'm the TRUMP. Look at ME.
They share "MEism."
Trump is also all about ME: I'm the TRUMP. Look at ME.
They share "MEism."
7
Popular and influential religious leaders in recent times have ranged over a wide spectrum of political beliefs. Father Berrigan, Joel Osteen, Jerry Falwell, MLK, Pat Robertson, Liberation Theology, and Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi are just a few in the news. Probably most Americans think they are somewhat religious in so far as they believe in something beyond the world they bump into on a daily basis, and channel this belief through organized religious institutions. So what has made the "Religious Right" so unique and powerful? Nothing really. It's just that particular circumstances have favored one or another of these leaders and movements at different times. Father Berrigan helped a country comes to terms with a brutal war; Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi helped create a brutal war; MLK helped a country come to terms with bigotry and hate; Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson . . . [you get the picture]. None of these leaders and none of the coalitions of individuals and groups behind them have been permanent and powerful for more than a short time, albeit seemingly endless by those opposing their aims. But we should not have expected the "Religious Right" to remain unchanged and unchallenged forever. Attitudes and beliefs of these focused believers change, as do those of the larger populace. What we now see is a new coalition of believers and new beliefs forming a new direction. It's hard to see it from inside while it is happening. Fascinating to watch, scary to imagine a possible end point.
1
And so it is validated, once again, the truth in the wisdom of the separation of Church and State. The latter will always corrupt the former. Always.
4
I think Ambrose Bierce said it best when he described scriptures as "the sacred books of our holy religion, as distinguished from the false and profane writings on which all other faiths are based.” That a significant segment of the religious right would embrace Donald Trump as he thumbs his nose at their sacred texts makes perfect sense. The Donald knows what they are, he is merely haggling over the price.
3
You show no evidence of Trump losing the Evangelical vote. These people have the same values as Trump and many will vote for him.
That said, I have stopped clicking on Trump articles first and gone straight to the one on Sanders and Clinton.
Trump is not news. We want coverage of the Democratic candidates.
Stop with the Trump obsession.
That said, I have stopped clicking on Trump articles first and gone straight to the one on Sanders and Clinton.
Trump is not news. We want coverage of the Democratic candidates.
Stop with the Trump obsession.
3
The religious right will exist as long as the non-religious left exists. They have to counter all the progressive left wing policies and occurrences that have inflicted our country (abortion on demand, diminishing traditional marriage, out-of-wedlock births, insisting that all sexes use whatever restroom one wishes) and the list goes on.
Many of us feel our country has become one big cesspool where anything goes and there are no rules or values. We feel that decency is a thing of the past. Everything is so explicit and there is nothing left to the imagination (our movies and TV programs prove my point).
Those of us who have a religious belief system are mocked and belittled. We are called all sorts of ugly names that would never occur to those who have no religious beliefs or practices. We deserve respect and should be able to worship in peace. It is our faith that keeps us going and gives us hope. They say religious folks are happier than those who do not profess any faith.
I do not believe in forcing anyone to believe in God but I will continue to stand up for my religious principles that are so dear and important to me. It is who I am.
Many of us feel our country has become one big cesspool where anything goes and there are no rules or values. We feel that decency is a thing of the past. Everything is so explicit and there is nothing left to the imagination (our movies and TV programs prove my point).
Those of us who have a religious belief system are mocked and belittled. We are called all sorts of ugly names that would never occur to those who have no religious beliefs or practices. We deserve respect and should be able to worship in peace. It is our faith that keeps us going and gives us hope. They say religious folks are happier than those who do not profess any faith.
I do not believe in forcing anyone to believe in God but I will continue to stand up for my religious principles that are so dear and important to me. It is who I am.
51
KMW: Being asked to treat your fellow human beings as equals does not oppress you. Not judging the lives of people about whom you know nothing does not violate your religious principles. Maybe God created LBGT people to test your compassion, rather than to allow you to wallow in self-righteousness? I have great respect for religious people. But not for those who claim they only want to "worship in peace" and then use their religion as a cudgel to beat down the less fortunate and claim their own superiority.
67
"Those of us who have a religious belief system are mocked and belittled": I believe this happens only when you try to force your belief system on others. In plain English: believe what you want, but keep your beliefs to yourself; otherwise, people are likely to "talk back".
58
I respect your positions, but please don't insist that I adhere to them. Religion should be about tolerance
42
As the evangelicals lose the culture wars, they'll likely turn to what they really want, a holy war.
Gun "lovers" and religious delusionists (my word), are a dangerous mix.
The biggest irony, is that guns will have little to do with this scenario.
What they'll inadvertently create, is a cyber war and/or a nuclear war.
Gun "lovers" and religious delusionists (my word), are a dangerous mix.
The biggest irony, is that guns will have little to do with this scenario.
What they'll inadvertently create, is a cyber war and/or a nuclear war.
2
Many of these evangelicals live in the same economic depression that has been the core basis of those supporting Trump om the promise to make their economic lives better. The Faustian bargain for a job and full stomach whilst electing a devil we don't fully know seems, at this point, a worthy deal. And like poor Faust, will they come to rue the day when the devil demands his due, will there be wails and howling? Of course and with decided certainty. But what's the alternative, another, perhaps even hotter pit of Hell proffered by THAT woman? One of those rare cases when it seems the better choice may be with the devil you DON"T know, rather than the devil you do! Hell of a choice we've all been given, isn't it?
3
I am an evangelical Christian and for the life of me I cannot see how others who say they share my faith can even think about voting for Trump. Ross Douthat wrote recently that Trump's supporters are not those of strong faith, but those who traditionally have identified with that moniker, even though they practice their faith little if at all. It's sort of like my sister-in-law -- she touts evangelicalism not because she practices the faith -- she has none -- but because she likes country music and wishes to identify herself with others who share her musical preference.
Trump's rhetoric has everything to do with hate. What in the world does that have to do with faith in God?
Trump's rhetoric has everything to do with hate. What in the world does that have to do with faith in God?
5
Evangelicals do not think in days and years, let alone election cycles; they consider their vote a ministry in a timeless battle that will not be won with the nuclear trigger.
So, their vote cannot be written off, or relied upon, unless they deem the candidate sufficiently Christian. Trump clearly isn't Christian enough, but if he loses the Presidential race he'll probably be gone soon (to set up the Trump News Network is my bet) and the religious right will be saying 'we told you so!' to the GOP.
And if by any chance he stays, you can expect a split in the GOP and Cruz, et al, will coalesce around the most solid caucus in their party, one with which they also, literally, hold faith.
It's good the title here is phrased as a question but I'd be surprised if the answer is a resounding 'yes'. It's one thing to believe your career in congress may hang on your policy stance; but it's another thing entirely to believe that your vote may send you to hell.
So, their vote cannot be written off, or relied upon, unless they deem the candidate sufficiently Christian. Trump clearly isn't Christian enough, but if he loses the Presidential race he'll probably be gone soon (to set up the Trump News Network is my bet) and the religious right will be saying 'we told you so!' to the GOP.
And if by any chance he stays, you can expect a split in the GOP and Cruz, et al, will coalesce around the most solid caucus in their party, one with which they also, literally, hold faith.
It's good the title here is phrased as a question but I'd be surprised if the answer is a resounding 'yes'. It's one thing to believe your career in congress may hang on your policy stance; but it's another thing entirely to believe that your vote may send you to hell.
The religious right has been around in one form or another for thousands of years. It is not going away anytime soon.
5
Assuming that no monstrous October Surprise lands Trump in the White House, Hillary Clinton can be guaranteed to create a Supreme Court that will effectively end the war on abortion and contraception that the religious right has enacted in states across the country and roll back countless mendacious rules and restrictions as unconstitutional. What will happen to the religious right then?
5
Ours is a nation of laws, not men. Individual beliefs in a "higher power" or the "good book" do not trump the constitution. It is a shameful tradition that the good book is what Presidents and Supreme Court justices swear their their oath upon. Did you ever read that stuff. I have and it sent me running toward sanity.
2
The Religious Right is not nor has it ever been about religion or Jesus. It has been a banner under which all manner of bigotry, ignorance, and outright hatred could unite.
Don't like evolution because it means you are not actually special in the universe? Blame those pointy headed intellectual elites for attacking the Bible. Young Earth Creationism and Global Warming denialism spring from the same source.
Gays are icky and trans people are against the Bible because there are passages in the Bible that can be cited to sorta support the claim. Other passages are overlooked or ignored based on a "New Covenant". Slut shaming and opposition to abortion are all a part of the moral superiority to be gained by being in the RR. Logical consistency plays no part with regards to Planned Parenthood. NOBODY in their generation got pregnant outside of marriage.They were all virgins on their wedding night - at least the women were. Men had no such restrictions.
The Religious Right is still here with us. It is far too handy for creating an "Us" to oppose all of those "Others" taking America away from it's rightful owners. For these people, belief "Trumps" reality every time.
Don't like evolution because it means you are not actually special in the universe? Blame those pointy headed intellectual elites for attacking the Bible. Young Earth Creationism and Global Warming denialism spring from the same source.
Gays are icky and trans people are against the Bible because there are passages in the Bible that can be cited to sorta support the claim. Other passages are overlooked or ignored based on a "New Covenant". Slut shaming and opposition to abortion are all a part of the moral superiority to be gained by being in the RR. Logical consistency plays no part with regards to Planned Parenthood. NOBODY in their generation got pregnant outside of marriage.They were all virgins on their wedding night - at least the women were. Men had no such restrictions.
The Religious Right is still here with us. It is far too handy for creating an "Us" to oppose all of those "Others" taking America away from it's rightful owners. For these people, belief "Trumps" reality every time.
8
As a member of a religious society that prides itself on social activism (albeit from a decidedly liberal perspective), I find myself continuously confronted with a singular question: why isn't it sufficient to lead one's own life as witness to one's own faith rather than trying to force others to that faith? Left or right, it appears that there is more available energy to remove the splinters from the eyes of others...
6
Simply put, although the issues get framed in terms of "faith" and "values" those are just smokescreens for the genuine agenda of the religious right, which has always been about fear, coercion, and ultimately control.
1
Trump does, indeed, represent the sub-set of evangelicals that are not interested in living among minorities and who remember a mythological white rural and suburban society where they were kings and queens. Trump's lack of biblical understand does not matter to these people as long as he can preserve the myth.
230
gotta love these folks who have so much confidence in a book of fairy tales. Now they have The Donald.
2
People who are certain they are right are usually merely annoying, but if they achieve any success as an organized political force, they usually become extremely dangerous. Naturally, they almost never see this, preferring instead to assure each other they are selflessly "doing Gods' work." May God save us from that!
6
As a forty-six year-old gay man in a small southern town in Georgia, I have seen the far right evangelicals hold sway over every political office imaginable since I cast my first ballot in 1988. And each time, it was never what they were actually FOR. With them, it's always been about everything they're AGAINST. Gays in particular have been a popular target, so it is not with little satisfaction that I find their current predicament appropriate. If for nothing else, we can thank Donald Trump for exposing the outsized influence these people have had for over three decades.
14
You've identified many problems with the religious right. All of them exist.
However, the biggest problem is this: in a world that is subject to natural laws and for humans who will best survive and thrive based on reason, empiricism, science and humaneness, how could anyone believe in supernatural powers, deities, prayer, "sacred" books, afterlives, and angels? Why have we clung to our infantile interpretation of the mysteries of nature, long after they have ceased being as mysterious? At long last, the scourge of religion itself must start coming apart at the seams.
When you base your world-view and morality on a web of lies and fairy tales, dysfunction necessarily awaits.
However, the biggest problem is this: in a world that is subject to natural laws and for humans who will best survive and thrive based on reason, empiricism, science and humaneness, how could anyone believe in supernatural powers, deities, prayer, "sacred" books, afterlives, and angels? Why have we clung to our infantile interpretation of the mysteries of nature, long after they have ceased being as mysterious? At long last, the scourge of religion itself must start coming apart at the seams.
When you base your world-view and morality on a web of lies and fairy tales, dysfunction necessarily awaits.
11
Your misunderstanding of the Trump constituencies and the Christian conservatives, is click bait for you r echo chamber, and irrelevant to the real world
banal, amusing, and tiresome
banal, amusing, and tiresome
1
Read Marx, Nietzsche, or Freud on religion; that is all one needs.
5
They are American Nationalists, plain and simple. The "Christianism" is a ploy to provide them with some type of moral veneer as they ram their hard core conservatism and desire to return to a 19th century society down the rest of our throats.
10
"...at least in 2016, many influential voices within the religious right are not interested in entering into a suicide pact with the Republican Party." Sarah Posner
This op-ed is insightful and the conclusion right on target.
I have a brother who is an evangelical Christian and follower of the right-wing hate radio shows. Last fall he told me of the Trump-Obama Conspiracy. The gist of this conspiracy theory is Trump is secretly working for President Obama to undermine the evangelical Republicans, deny their preferred candidate, Ted Cruz, the nomination and give Hillary Clinton the White House. Quite a theory, huh! (My brother didn't see/accept that Trump's animosity towards President Obama--the birther idiocy--totally undermined this conspiracy theory.)
My brother will not/cannot vote for Trump (Hallelujah!). He is faced with sitting out the election or only voting the down Republican ticket. But it is not likely he will vote at all; he is disillusioned, demoralized; he is praying to god for understanding. So yes, not all evangelicals will join the Trump-Republican suicide cult.
This op-ed is insightful and the conclusion right on target.
I have a brother who is an evangelical Christian and follower of the right-wing hate radio shows. Last fall he told me of the Trump-Obama Conspiracy. The gist of this conspiracy theory is Trump is secretly working for President Obama to undermine the evangelical Republicans, deny their preferred candidate, Ted Cruz, the nomination and give Hillary Clinton the White House. Quite a theory, huh! (My brother didn't see/accept that Trump's animosity towards President Obama--the birther idiocy--totally undermined this conspiracy theory.)
My brother will not/cannot vote for Trump (Hallelujah!). He is faced with sitting out the election or only voting the down Republican ticket. But it is not likely he will vote at all; he is disillusioned, demoralized; he is praying to god for understanding. So yes, not all evangelicals will join the Trump-Republican suicide cult.
224
"Last fall he told me of the Trump-Obama Conspiracy. The gist of this conspiracy theory is Trump is secretly working for President Obama to undermine the evangelical Republicans, deny their preferred candidate, Ted Cruz, the nomination and give Hillary Clinton the White House."
This conspiracy theory isn't new. The sad thing about it is that it makes Obama almost omniscient and omnipotent. And it totally removes from folks like your brother, personal responsibility and personal power.
Sad.
This conspiracy theory isn't new. The sad thing about it is that it makes Obama almost omniscient and omnipotent. And it totally removes from folks like your brother, personal responsibility and personal power.
Sad.
2
We can only hope that there are alot of these voters like your brother who sit it out praying rather than voting!
3
I thought I had heard all of the conspiracy stories out there; following them is sort of a hobby. The Trump-Obama plot to undo the Christian Right is a new one. Is there no limit to the conspiracy theorist imagination? Paranoia is a powerful thing.
I can't wait for the Oliver Stone movie. Kevin Costner as Trump? This could be a blockbuster.
I can't wait for the Oliver Stone movie. Kevin Costner as Trump? This could be a blockbuster.
1
When Evangelicals made a pack with Republicans – who dog-whistled racism and sexism, fought or supported immoral wars from Nicaragua to Iraq, cared less for the environment than corporate profits, made a punching bag of the poor, slashed taxes for those who continuously tripped over the line about a camel and the eye of a needle -- they, to coin a phrase, made a pack with the devil.
Though an Atheist, I can’t help but quote the Bible here: “Do not be deceived – God Cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows.” Galatians 6:7
Though an Atheist, I can’t help but quote the Bible here: “Do not be deceived – God Cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows.” Galatians 6:7
8
I recall a bumper sticker from years back when I believe Pat Robertson was the political face of this minority, but obnoxiously loud branch of the Republican Party -
"THE RELIGIOUS RIGHT IS NEITHER"
"THE RELIGIOUS RIGHT IS NEITHER"
8
I was brought up in the rigidly fundamentalist evangelical religion. It has always had inconsistency as its major problem.
On the one hand, during segregation the church would sing "God loves all the little children of the world" and yet would allow a black child to cry for water at a "colored only" water fountain that some white person had deliberately broken and he would not be able to drink from the white fountain.
The numerous inconsistences of evangelical fundamentalists is longer than the list of people who hate bitter over sweet. I see nothing strange in how so many of them accept this man as suitable for POTUS any more than the fact in my extended family's church women cannot attend if they are wearing pants, but have no problems with unmarried couples and their children that the Bible is supposed to be against also.
On the one hand, during segregation the church would sing "God loves all the little children of the world" and yet would allow a black child to cry for water at a "colored only" water fountain that some white person had deliberately broken and he would not be able to drink from the white fountain.
The numerous inconsistences of evangelical fundamentalists is longer than the list of people who hate bitter over sweet. I see nothing strange in how so many of them accept this man as suitable for POTUS any more than the fact in my extended family's church women cannot attend if they are wearing pants, but have no problems with unmarried couples and their children that the Bible is supposed to be against also.
7
If you want to believe in an invisible men in the sky, the world is 6000 years old, fairy dust, unicorns or whatever you want to believe in, that's okay, but don't push your superstitions on the rest of us.
670
I'm detecting a lot of hardcore atheists in these comments and I understand why.
1
Applause and very loud cheering continues!!!
1
I shall raise my hands and issue a very big Amen to that!
Did Moses hold a conversation with a burning bush?
Did Muhammad hold a conversation with an angel in a cave?
Do grown adults actually believe this kind of thing?
Not that anybody cares about what I think, but I have little respect for people who can't seem to advance beyond what really amounts to belief in the Easter bunny and Santa Claus. By the time I reach the end of my Catholic indoctrination in parochial school, I knew religion had little to do with reality.
I don't care if individuals wish to practice in their own place on their own time, religions built around such nonsense. This stuff does not belong in public policy, or encoded into law.
Did Muhammad hold a conversation with an angel in a cave?
Do grown adults actually believe this kind of thing?
Not that anybody cares about what I think, but I have little respect for people who can't seem to advance beyond what really amounts to belief in the Easter bunny and Santa Claus. By the time I reach the end of my Catholic indoctrination in parochial school, I knew religion had little to do with reality.
I don't care if individuals wish to practice in their own place on their own time, religions built around such nonsense. This stuff does not belong in public policy, or encoded into law.
9
"Not that anybody cares about what I think"
You fundamentalist atheists crack me up. Just. Crack. Me. Up.
Hitch bless you.
You fundamentalist atheists crack me up. Just. Crack. Me. Up.
Hitch bless you.
Lorem Ipsum
Yeah, yeah, two of the standard dogmas of fundamentalist Christians: atheists are the real fundamentalists and
they 'crack up' the fundies
rather than making them red with helpless fury, which everyone knows is how fundies really react to skepticism of their faith.
The other dogma is that you feel sorry for them. You'll use that another time.
Why won't you people realize that everyone sees through your cliched lies? You lose every honest person's respect by claiming moral standards and then lying so much and so transparently. Over and over and over. Publicly.
Yeah, yeah, two of the standard dogmas of fundamentalist Christians: atheists are the real fundamentalists and
they 'crack up' the fundies
rather than making them red with helpless fury, which everyone knows is how fundies really react to skepticism of their faith.
The other dogma is that you feel sorry for them. You'll use that another time.
Why won't you people realize that everyone sees through your cliched lies? You lose every honest person's respect by claiming moral standards and then lying so much and so transparently. Over and over and over. Publicly.
1
Arthur Schlesinger, Sr. must be very pleased with the series of events serving to bring conservatives down this year. His theory of cyclicality in history is being beautifully exemplified in all this, and not a moment too soon. No, history doesn't repeat itself but humans do remarkably similar things generations apart when presented with similar inputs. This year and 1968 will likely be seen as bookends of an era.
1
One can only hope...
Sadly ignorance will always be with us, even if it may take a different form.
Sadly ignorance will always be with us, even if it may take a different form.
4
When has the so-called "religious right" ever been on the right side of history? Their influence is waning, as it must. The Republican Party does not have a prayer.
8
The religious right seems more animated by a futile hope to keep things exactly the way they were in 1950 than by any serious theological underpinnings. You realize how far from the message of Jesus they have strayed when their rock stars are governors like McCrory and Abbott, who deprive millions of their residents of federally-funded healthcare simply to spite Obama. The Beatitudes don't live there any more.
15
The sick lie of modern Christianity is that it is full of hypocrisy, corruption, lies, un-Christian behavior, judgmental rampages, and so many more of the worst qualities of humanity. It's politicians are greedy, deceptive, and ridiculously against Science and other viewpoints that make sense. Finally they are being called out: Truth always sweeps aside lies...
363
This analysis is, oddly, heart warming. It almost makes me like Donald Trump (a misogynist, racist, ignorant bully) for loosening the grip of the Religious Right on our national politics.
But, of course, they'll come back. The grip will tighten again. Anti-abortion, anti-gay, anti-environment, anti-sex-education, pro-military, self-righteous Christian lobbying groups are very well organized in America, and they do a lot of fund raising. The network is strong. Presidential elections may not matter that much. It's the local and state elections they've dominated.
Of course things will become a little more difficult for conservative Christian fund-raisers when a black man named Barack Hussein Obama ends his term as president and can no longer be targeted as the dark, foreign, Muslim, anti-Christian-soldier, anti-Christ.
But there's always Hillary ...
But, of course, they'll come back. The grip will tighten again. Anti-abortion, anti-gay, anti-environment, anti-sex-education, pro-military, self-righteous Christian lobbying groups are very well organized in America, and they do a lot of fund raising. The network is strong. Presidential elections may not matter that much. It's the local and state elections they've dominated.
Of course things will become a little more difficult for conservative Christian fund-raisers when a black man named Barack Hussein Obama ends his term as president and can no longer be targeted as the dark, foreign, Muslim, anti-Christian-soldier, anti-Christ.
But there's always Hillary ...
5
Hopefully so, but doubtful. This article is more wishful thinking. Recall Trump's big rally in an Alabama stadium where he held up 'his' bible and told the crowd that he read from it daily - and they believed him and cheered! Most of the evangelicals haven't a clue about why church/state separation is in the U.S. Constitution - and never will - and would turn the whole country into another Taliban-like society (different flavor of theology, of course) if they ever got the chance. Also, evangelicals are strongly attracted to authority figures, and who more embodies authority than our very own would-be Hitler (ahem, sorry, I mean Trump).
8
We can only hope!
6
Certainly, political participation is important, but some sheep strayed from these words of the Good Shepherd as he was being interrogated by Pilate, "My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would fight, so that I would not be delivered to the Jews; but now My kingdom is not from here." John 18:33-36. And, as Paul said, "For our citizenship is in heaven." Philippians 3:20. "End of the Religious Right?" I doubt it for there will always be sheep who stray, but the rise of Mr. Trump may be a whisper in the ears of some to get back on the path and stop trying to tell others how to live their lives and obsessing over who sits on the thrones of the kingdoms of this world so that instead of peaceful persuasion by example, others may be forced to believe as they believe or suffer the consequences.
1
I'm not sure if I've ever met a Christian. My entire life, I've met many people who say they are, but it's impossible for me to know. After living in the rural south, in the heart of the Bible belt, I have often found that the people who declare their Christianity are often living the least Christian life. Take for example the woman who told me that the only evenings she doesn't go to the gun range for an hour or so are Wednesdays and Sundays. She doesn't go on Wednesdays because she has church. Sundays she can't go because she has church, but the gun range is closed on Sundays because the owner is her pastor. He won't open the gun range on the Lord's day. The same very biblically obsessed, deeply evangelical community organized a family fun day, right after President Obama was elected, where local children could fire an actual automatic weapon at watermelons. I grew up in a northeast, wealthier community and saw constant hypocrisy played out in front of me in WASPY churches. Wife beater deacons, that sort of thing. Congregation women in $5000 dresses on Sunday morning, while up the road a house still had dirt floors. Free memberships for the Pastor and his family at the restricted country club. Nope. Not sure if I've ever met an actual Christian. And that's really none of my business anyway. When it comes down to it, whether you live up to what you believe seems to be arbitrary. So keep it between you and what you think made you.
856
You probably didn't notice the real christians because they are humble and therefore don't broadcast their faith. Some of them are in the WASPY church, others are in the bible-belt southern church.
3
“If Christ were here there is one thing he would not be—a Christian.” Mark Twain.
3
Dave,
You have my sympathies. I have met thousands of real honest to God Christians and many of them actually professed a belief in Jesus. Seek and ye shall find but be wary of the Pharisees and stay away from the Saducees.
You have my sympathies. I have met thousands of real honest to God Christians and many of them actually professed a belief in Jesus. Seek and ye shall find but be wary of the Pharisees and stay away from the Saducees.
3
Please, please let this be the end of the "religious" "right" - those sanctimonious hypocrites who make us all look like a nation of bible thumping fools. They're not only bad for politics, they're bad for religion, as they spring from exactly the same kind of muddled belief as the Islamic fundamentalists they so profess to hate. The best I think we can all hope for is that they're right about the "rapture" and the second coming - my only question to them all is - if Jesus doesn't show up and get them all off this planet any time soon, could they all please crawl under a rock or sink back into the bottom of their ponds and pretend that he has?
717
Well said!!
I have rarely heard this from anyone but you make a great point. Few have noticed that we have our own variety of an Islamic state in the republican right. They have wanted to take over our bodies, our integrity as individuals and force us to do what they want 24/7. They won't stop until we think like them. Kevin Phillips has a great book analysing the religious right and he is a Republican!
3
They need to emulate the Shakers and practice celibacy. In time that will solve the problem.
3
Focusing on evangelicals misses the influence of many other politically active religious groups. Sermons laced with political messages have been increasingly delivered, almost defiantly, from the pulpit of many denominations, often in violation of IRS regulations that are rarely enforced for fear of treading on religious liberty. Around elections, voter guides are commonly distributed. The more religion counts for people, and the more they attend religious services, the more likely they are to vote Republican, somehow viewing the Democratic party as anathema to religion. This trend will probably continue in November when voters get the chance to enhance the role of religion in America, setting aside their reservations about a particular nominee.
4
As was said it is the Republican Party and not the Conservative Party. Religious conservatives are composed of a scant percentage of the U.S. population. And as far as "twice divorced Trump"? Well Hillary Clinton should be divorced and just because a person can quote the Bible does not make them more smart or saintly than anyone else.
Good article. But why do headings have to be so moronic? It's a come-on for cretins and is common all over, but it grates in the NYT. The end of the religious right? As much as it might be the end of breathing air. It's not even the end of the influence of the RR in American politics.
It's getting on to the middle of May. When I first came to America, I heard at election time that the campaign didn't really start until after Labor Day. Counting the GOP out now is really simplistic and really dangerous. Anyone sympathetic to independent thought and to the ongoing human endeavor to find human values free from the shibboleths of millennia must beware of facile optimism. There is little sign that human greed or the stupidity of the mob have left us.
It's getting on to the middle of May. When I first came to America, I heard at election time that the campaign didn't really start until after Labor Day. Counting the GOP out now is really simplistic and really dangerous. Anyone sympathetic to independent thought and to the ongoing human endeavor to find human values free from the shibboleths of millennia must beware of facile optimism. There is little sign that human greed or the stupidity of the mob have left us.
3
Religious fundamentalists are little more than a voting block. Their weakness is that they do not compromise, but they are proud of that value: after all the bible (based on their interpretation) is infallible. You need only look to the Gerrymandered Southern legislatures to see what they will do “in the name of god” and that is to impose their religious values on a secular society using government action as their tool. Last time I looked that violates the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment.
540
It's not just the First Amendment. A lot of the Religious Right agenda seems to violate Article 6, which prohibits any religious test for holding office in the United States. I thought that had been pretty well tested when we elected that Roman Catholic JFK a few years back. Then we had all that ruckus about President Obama's supposed Islamism.
3
They don't believe in the Establishment Clause and have their own, false interpretation of the First Amendment.
2
Mr. Trump is not the cause of the decline of the religious right. It's dying on its own. Young voters increasingly declare themselves to be religiously unaffiliated. Women as well are sick of having their reproductive rights regulated. Meanwhile, a demented Republican leadership, which acknowledged after the 2012 election that it needed to bring in young voters, women, and minorities, suicidally panders to their dying religious base while alienating all these groups.
606
Generally, a more educated society in which those whom are educated are taught to question ideas, not blindly accept them, are a threat to dogmatic religious groups, hence the disconnection of young people from the evangelical flock whom are now made up of primarily an older demographic that will eventually die off. It is no accident that in some of these southern, less affluent more poorly educated states like Mississippi, that Republican legislators in those states continually cut education done to purposely keep people dumb so they will accept anything you tell them.
1
Good riddance to the religious right. Whatever your religion, just keep it to yourself and we will all be better off.
10
Hopefully
2
Can you imagine what other Americans - and religious groups - would have said if the Catholic Church forcefully injected itself into domestic politics and candidates in the time of John F. Kennedy (or even today?) Or if one segment of Jews started trotting out their beliefs in support of Israel, or Bernie Sanders?
Of course, we already know how much of America reacts to a twisted and untrue version of what it perceives to be "Muslim" beliefs.
Of course, we already know how much of America reacts to a twisted and untrue version of what it perceives to be "Muslim" beliefs.
3
"Is this the end of the Religious Right?" It is devoutly to be hoped!
11
When "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion" is properly enforced, government simply cannot do anything to help evangelists proselytize, or enact any religious article of faith into law. Government is barren ground for them.
4
They only thought they were religious. In reality it was a signifier for a psychopathology - the fear of their own desire. Now Donald Trump - Ignoramus Rex - can speak to that desire. Fun times ahead.
7
Which Jesus preached the "prosperity" gospel? Sounds like an excuse for televangelists becoming obscenely wealthy at the expense of the audience they've been fleecing for the last half-century. Watching the Jim Bakers of the world raking in the cash provided the template for the GOP to run a 30-year bait and switch scam with their clueless base, who never seemed to catch on that they were being played. The downside of "belief".
6
"The religious right faces a reckoning" indeed, and one long overdue.
It is time for the real Christian wing to take on the pseudo-Christian hypocrite wing, which has tarnished the image of the religion, made a mockery of its positive values, and hijacked its political involvement. The Bible does not read "Blessed are the dumb" or the "The 1% shall inherit the earth."
It is time for the real Christian wing to take on the pseudo-Christian hypocrite wing, which has tarnished the image of the religion, made a mockery of its positive values, and hijacked its political involvement. The Bible does not read "Blessed are the dumb" or the "The 1% shall inherit the earth."
690
Religion has tarnished its own image by believing in a god-thing.
2
Nor did Jesus say, "Blessed are the war mongers." Before the Iran nuclear deal, for example, was even finished and before they had seen details of this peace agreement, Republicans were denouncing it and were calling for war with Iran in the Senate. Where do the evangelicals stand in regard to loving one's enemies, as opposed to torturing them and murdering their families? I think I know. And that's why Trump will win their votes.
1
There is no one who can cast a stone. They all live in glass houses and none are without sin. Pope Francis may be a Jesuit and an amazing human being but the church still protects child abusers. Young evangelicals may be more concerned with feeding the hungry than persecuting gays, but they are still part of the church of hate.
1
Can't happen soon enough.
The most corrosive aspect of the religious right is the denial of science. The Bible is a book of poetry not prose. It teaches life lessons through the vehicles of metaphor and allegory. It is not a literal description of the world, past or present.
Those that insist that the Bible is the direct word of God lay the foundation for the strict constitutionalist interpretation used by the extreme right. That is its source. Doing so perpetuates false and oppressive beliefs which in turn represses societal growth.
The young people embrace science. Technology, their phones, are the center of everyday life. Most importantly, they understand the significance of global warming. They see it, fear it, and want to stop it.
The religious right does not. They tend to justify the rape of the planet as an expression of individual liberty. The young reject that abuse.
The young are socially liberal and accept differing sexual orientations. The religious right does not.
The religious right is selling a product that the young and enlightened don't want. The entire movement is collapsing under the weight of its own dogma. The world is rapidly changing. It is now the e-world, the tech world. The religious right will continue to fade as their cemeteries fill up.
The most corrosive aspect of the religious right is the denial of science. The Bible is a book of poetry not prose. It teaches life lessons through the vehicles of metaphor and allegory. It is not a literal description of the world, past or present.
Those that insist that the Bible is the direct word of God lay the foundation for the strict constitutionalist interpretation used by the extreme right. That is its source. Doing so perpetuates false and oppressive beliefs which in turn represses societal growth.
The young people embrace science. Technology, their phones, are the center of everyday life. Most importantly, they understand the significance of global warming. They see it, fear it, and want to stop it.
The religious right does not. They tend to justify the rape of the planet as an expression of individual liberty. The young reject that abuse.
The young are socially liberal and accept differing sexual orientations. The religious right does not.
The religious right is selling a product that the young and enlightened don't want. The entire movement is collapsing under the weight of its own dogma. The world is rapidly changing. It is now the e-world, the tech world. The religious right will continue to fade as their cemeteries fill up.
11
As many commentators have pointed out, religion and politics do not mix well. Something our founders recognized quite well, but they also recognized that there is a place in society for religion, provided government stays out of that place. Our societal values are often strongly influenced by our religious values, which, in turn, influences our political values. However, the influence must end at the very clear boundary between religion and politics.
Politics is the art of the possible with a view towards creating a society in which all of us can function effectively and realize our full potential as members of that society. Religion is the way we establish our relation to a supreme being of our choosing, and politics has nothing to do or say about that. The two can work together to produce a better society, but neither should be able to dominate or dictate to the other, except when there might be an impermissible crossing of the boundary between the two.
Against that background, it should be seen as a positive that the religious right playbook did not work so well this time around.
Politics is the art of the possible with a view towards creating a society in which all of us can function effectively and realize our full potential as members of that society. Religion is the way we establish our relation to a supreme being of our choosing, and politics has nothing to do or say about that. The two can work together to produce a better society, but neither should be able to dominate or dictate to the other, except when there might be an impermissible crossing of the boundary between the two.
Against that background, it should be seen as a positive that the religious right playbook did not work so well this time around.
2
I feel it is important to separate the most likely good-hearted people on the right of the Christian spectrum from its most likely power- and money-hungry leaders. My guess is that most of the folks are struggling with the day-to-day financial, moral, and family intensities that we all struggle with. They have good hearts -- God bless 'em -- and are honestly doing their best, as "best "is laid out by their leaders.
Unfortunately, their leaders have time and again been proven to be driven by more world intents than their speechifying would have their followers believe. And this is where the followers must take responsibility. Their hearts may be in the right place but their methods are not. (Hello, 2,000 BC.)
That they continue to serve obviously biased, selfish and greedy leaders; well, that's on them. They shall rise again, I am sure. But for now, yay.
Unfortunately, their leaders have time and again been proven to be driven by more world intents than their speechifying would have their followers believe. And this is where the followers must take responsibility. Their hearts may be in the right place but their methods are not. (Hello, 2,000 BC.)
That they continue to serve obviously biased, selfish and greedy leaders; well, that's on them. They shall rise again, I am sure. But for now, yay.
1
Jerry Falwell wanted to become active in Republican party politics because his Liberty University was in danger of losing tax free status because of civil rights legislation. So he teamed up with Paul Weyrich to start the Moral Majority. Get the irony of the name itself?
Weyrich recognized that the backlash to civil rights was a powerful motivator, but did not want to show the dirty petticoats, so he glommed onto abortion as a signature issue. Up to that point, Evangelicals though abortion was a Catholic issue, like divorce and birth control.
And it was a perfect issue to exploit. It did not cost corporate interests a dime, and it really affects only poor women (women and girls from wealthy families always could get abortions, and no one had to know.)
So don't assume that all Evangelicals had lofty religious motives and are so pure at heart.
Weyrich recognized that the backlash to civil rights was a powerful motivator, but did not want to show the dirty petticoats, so he glommed onto abortion as a signature issue. Up to that point, Evangelicals though abortion was a Catholic issue, like divorce and birth control.
And it was a perfect issue to exploit. It did not cost corporate interests a dime, and it really affects only poor women (women and girls from wealthy families always could get abortions, and no one had to know.)
So don't assume that all Evangelicals had lofty religious motives and are so pure at heart.
14
Don't loose track of the Supreme Court nominee issue. While Trump is certainly a wild card, he is likely to appoint someone more conservative than would Hillary. My guess is that many religious conservatives will vote for him simply hoping that a win for him will also keep the Congress in GOP hands. That, in turn, might help them do the things they hope for like overturn Row v. Wade or pass a national law making marriage "only between one man and one woman" (what more conservative Supreme Court would do with such a law is another question). Many single issue voters will take their chances on a candidate who is currently saying he is anti-choice over one who has long been pro-choice.
3
Trump is like the Kardashian.. they add zero value to our world, but lets keep on talking about them. This article, as others today and every day, (just scroll the NYT page) has actually no value, just some words thrown on the page, just to fill the void and continue the discourse about him, and to sell the paper. the media, the entertainment industry profit with these individuals and we keep on reading about them... its a sad world we live in
3
The irony of it all is that the evangelical right may very well have been the group that created the conditions for Donald Trump's rise. I remember when Democrats questioned why do so many Republican voters against their economic interests. Evangelicals were at the forefront of this group that put social issues ahead of their own economic well-being.
The result was, yes, they got the supreme court they wanted but lost their jobs and saw their finances dwindle.
Now their deteriorating financial condition is at the forefront of their concerns. The bones they have received by the Republican establishment on social issues are becoming irrelevant and do not pay the bills.
There anger is a result of their own actions over the years. Donald Trump is their answer now as it reflects their anger. An anger created by their own past decisions.
The result was, yes, they got the supreme court they wanted but lost their jobs and saw their finances dwindle.
Now their deteriorating financial condition is at the forefront of their concerns. The bones they have received by the Republican establishment on social issues are becoming irrelevant and do not pay the bills.
There anger is a result of their own actions over the years. Donald Trump is their answer now as it reflects their anger. An anger created by their own past decisions.
7
Sarah Posner has written an insightful, and very accurate, assessment of the Evangelical conundrum.
The implosion of the Evangelical allegiance to GOP politics will be the biggest favor to each body that could have been imagined.
Any close reading of Scripture will support that religious believers in the Christian fold have absolutely no business steering fellow congregants in the ways of voting preferences. In fact, having worshiped among many considered from the outside to be "intolerant and conservative", I found more common cause with the "liberal" social justice causes of the Democrats than with the hyped up and strident GOP.
A Christian should be able to maintain a balance between the requisite compassion and judgment that must exist lest we live in either libertine or intolerant chaos. However, the current times demand a more nuanced voice than our current faith leaders can muster. As a result, the faithful should disperse and use their prayer life to guide their steps, not just their voices.
To be truly faithful and truly Christian, in the model of Christ, requires a super-human (no doubt) balance between embrace and condemnation. As we have seen, few of His exponents are up to the task; and that has made this follower more convinced of His wisdom.
It is our job to guide our own steps and to be "salt and light" in the world. The political arena has more than enough of its own problems; problems that men and women, alone, will not alter by screaming.
The implosion of the Evangelical allegiance to GOP politics will be the biggest favor to each body that could have been imagined.
Any close reading of Scripture will support that religious believers in the Christian fold have absolutely no business steering fellow congregants in the ways of voting preferences. In fact, having worshiped among many considered from the outside to be "intolerant and conservative", I found more common cause with the "liberal" social justice causes of the Democrats than with the hyped up and strident GOP.
A Christian should be able to maintain a balance between the requisite compassion and judgment that must exist lest we live in either libertine or intolerant chaos. However, the current times demand a more nuanced voice than our current faith leaders can muster. As a result, the faithful should disperse and use their prayer life to guide their steps, not just their voices.
To be truly faithful and truly Christian, in the model of Christ, requires a super-human (no doubt) balance between embrace and condemnation. As we have seen, few of His exponents are up to the task; and that has made this follower more convinced of His wisdom.
It is our job to guide our own steps and to be "salt and light" in the world. The political arena has more than enough of its own problems; problems that men and women, alone, will not alter by screaming.
17
James Madison favored separation of church and state partly because he believed that such a firewall would protect religious leaders from the corruption he associated with the ministers' pursuit of political influence. The firewall never worked perfectly, but it did discourage churches from organizing their members into voting blocs.
After WWII, however, the fear of communism and growing secularism persuaded some religious leaders, notably evangelist Billy Graham, to campaign for an official recognition that the US was a Christian nation. The GOP responded more favorably than the Democrats to this idea, leading Graham to proclaim publicly that God wanted Nixon to win the presidency.
Reagan's canny appeal to evangelical leaders strengthened the relationship between Republicans and evangelicals, but the latter derived few practical benefits from the alliance. The partnership, however, led Falwell and other ministers to imply divine sanction for conservative goals such as lower taxes and higher military spending. Madison's fears had proven all too prescient.
Trump's candidacy may have exposed evangelicals to a severe dilemma and subjected them to the contempt of increasing numbers of Americans. But they laid the foundation for their own entrapment when their leaders violated church principles by seeking to use state power to impose a religious agenda on the country. Trump is the legitimate fruit of their folly.
After WWII, however, the fear of communism and growing secularism persuaded some religious leaders, notably evangelist Billy Graham, to campaign for an official recognition that the US was a Christian nation. The GOP responded more favorably than the Democrats to this idea, leading Graham to proclaim publicly that God wanted Nixon to win the presidency.
Reagan's canny appeal to evangelical leaders strengthened the relationship between Republicans and evangelicals, but the latter derived few practical benefits from the alliance. The partnership, however, led Falwell and other ministers to imply divine sanction for conservative goals such as lower taxes and higher military spending. Madison's fears had proven all too prescient.
Trump's candidacy may have exposed evangelicals to a severe dilemma and subjected them to the contempt of increasing numbers of Americans. But they laid the foundation for their own entrapment when their leaders violated church principles by seeking to use state power to impose a religious agenda on the country. Trump is the legitimate fruit of their folly.
86
Well said, Mr. Lee!
Seems to me that the Christian right has never studied the teachings of Christ, I must have missed the part about hate, greed, selfishness and complete lack of empathy.
235
@MDM
No hyperbole here...
No hyperbole here...
1
Of course it is, also sarcasm, to make a point, a point you completely missed.
4
The Trump phenomenon has more than anything exposed the emperor's new clothes of the religious right, that religion for them is just a smoke screen to protect their social and economic interests. This is Protestant Calvinism on steroids, it follows the adage that if you can drive a Cadillac then God must be on your side.
American heartland Christianity has little to do with the actual teachings of Christ, the Bible for them is just a tool to justify their spin on Ayn Rand survival-of-the-strongest values. However bizarre the rest of the world considered it, if Falwell and the Christian right could make Reagan into a patron saint, then the slippery slope to Trump is a fairly easy one to make.
American heartland Christianity has little to do with the actual teachings of Christ, the Bible for them is just a tool to justify their spin on Ayn Rand survival-of-the-strongest values. However bizarre the rest of the world considered it, if Falwell and the Christian right could make Reagan into a patron saint, then the slippery slope to Trump is a fairly easy one to make.
56
If only. It is high time we recognized that there should be the separation between church and state that the founding fathers envisioned. And let's stop going these billion dollar franchises tax breaks while we are at it.
141
@Christopher
By billion dollar franchises, you are speaking about Harvard, Yale, and Stanford? They are quite literally exponents of liberal dogma.
If that snarky comment was addressing churches, please provide a list of those "franchises" and your expected tax windfall. I guess that digging wells in Africa or building homes is considered heresy in the Liberal playbook.
By billion dollar franchises, you are speaking about Harvard, Yale, and Stanford? They are quite literally exponents of liberal dogma.
If that snarky comment was addressing churches, please provide a list of those "franchises" and your expected tax windfall. I guess that digging wells in Africa or building homes is considered heresy in the Liberal playbook.
1
Among the many disadvantages of the anti-science posture of the evangelical movement is alignment with climate change denial, which will prove to be the greatest sin of all.
102
Falling for Trump only tells you that they never believed all that garbage they've been spouting for decades.
151
Is this the end of the religious right? No.
Donald Trump aside, we can just look to the states. How many have put restrictions on abortion - anything from building standards that close clinics, to waiting periods and ultrasounds and counseling?
How many states have tried to, and either succeeded or been stopped by veto, to expand religious freedom acts to enable discrimination if it is based on beliefs?
Look at North Carolina, the Governor so worried about re-election that he will imperil federal money for schools and UNC to assure that he not be seen weak on the bathroom bill.
No, Donald Trump doesn't spell the death of the religious right. It merely spells that the coalition of other concerns has pushed the most religious candidates off the stage, for now.
Donald Trump aside, we can just look to the states. How many have put restrictions on abortion - anything from building standards that close clinics, to waiting periods and ultrasounds and counseling?
How many states have tried to, and either succeeded or been stopped by veto, to expand religious freedom acts to enable discrimination if it is based on beliefs?
Look at North Carolina, the Governor so worried about re-election that he will imperil federal money for schools and UNC to assure that he not be seen weak on the bathroom bill.
No, Donald Trump doesn't spell the death of the religious right. It merely spells that the coalition of other concerns has pushed the most religious candidates off the stage, for now.
27
Religion will continue to poison everything.
5
If it were only true that the Religious Right would now please disappear and leave the rest of us alone! From your word processor to God's ears!
These people, were they true Christians, wouldn't be--couldn't be against the support of the poor or against universal health care or equal access to education, could they? They couldn't be for the wide distribution of weapons or for ever more wars when we aren't supposed to kill. These people aren't Christian, but only religious. Pharisees and vipers. Good riddance.
These people, were they true Christians, wouldn't be--couldn't be against the support of the poor or against universal health care or equal access to education, could they? They couldn't be for the wide distribution of weapons or for ever more wars when we aren't supposed to kill. These people aren't Christian, but only religious. Pharisees and vipers. Good riddance.
325
Once one has abandoned fact, logic and rational judgement in favor of ideology, whether it be fundamentalist religion, Marxism, veganism or whatever, one is no longer susceptible to rational discourse. Ultimate "truth" having been revealed, all conflicting facts or ideas are irrelevant or the mere propaganda of an enemy that can be cast in Satanic form and therefor intellectually disregarded. While Trump has not toed a purely evangelical line, his TV preacher rhetorical style and disregard of fact and logic make him so familiar to the religious right that for many, he is irresistible. It is a demographic wherein style has always "trumped" substance.
26
You are so right. This is a perfect time to read Fromm"s Escape from Freedom or Eric Hoffer's True Believer. Both of those books were required reading for high school students in my community during the 1980s. The books are timeless and explain a lot about how people let ideologies take over their lives without giving much thought to the meaning behind the ideologies. I remember when religious thinking was freely mentioned in everyday life but when most people thought it was a really bad idea to insert religion into politics.
5
Political evangelicalism has never been about morals or even religion, it has always been about power. And the center of power in the GOP is shifting away from movement conservatives to the racist bully Trump. And as power shifts, so do they.
81
Most evangelicals have been brain-washed by the right-wing politicians and media and have become two-issue voters. For their religious “freedom” to oppose gay rights and abortion, they have to accept the rest of the package to vote against their own economic interest. Why would a poor white want to lower the tax rate for the rich? I can not fathom!
Now they wake up and thought that Trump is their savior. That is scary. Ignorance is the enemy of democracy!
Now they wake up and thought that Trump is their savior. That is scary. Ignorance is the enemy of democracy!
72
Our American Constitution has no god, no established religion, and no religious test for public office; it does however, guarantee religious liberty for all.
We also have Thomas Jefferson's great Wall of Separation between church and state which works because good fences make good neighbors.
The Religious Right is like tobacco, both are legal; just don't blow your smoke in my face and we'll be fine.
We also have Thomas Jefferson's great Wall of Separation between church and state which works because good fences make good neighbors.
The Religious Right is like tobacco, both are legal; just don't blow your smoke in my face and we'll be fine.
56
"The Religious Right is like tobacco, both are legal; just don't blow your smoke in my face and we'll be fine."
I would add , and don`t expect me to pay for your lung cancer that you chose to acquire.
I would add , and don`t expect me to pay for your lung cancer that you chose to acquire.
4
Their confusion is representative of their desperation. We should only be so lucky for this wing of the Republican Party to go away.
29
It is not surprising that a community of self-identified "Christian voters" who could pick Ronald Reagan (who knew virtually nothing of what it meant to be a Christian) over Jimmy Carter now pick Donald Trump! Christ and his teachings have always been usurped by rank Capitalism. Witness the recent reaction to the Pope's humanitarian appeals by the religious right. Twain was right when he said relief for the downtrodden will not come from this group!
106
....and of course there is the ultra pious Paul Ryan who publicly admits to admiring Any Rand and clams to be a Christian.....what a joke, these bogus Christian poseurs are beyond belief. Nothing Christian about him and his cohorts......look at his budget and that will tell you where he stands on the gospel of Jesus Christ. These people give real Christians a bad name. Nothing All-American about these people either...far more like The Taliband.
5
The Christian right and the Republican party have done more to evangelize the nation to Christianity as hypocrisy than any atheist might accomplish in a book.
95
One can only hope that this is the end of the religious right. They've done everything in their power to walk back any progress this country has made, especially where women are concerned. I'm delighted to be able to watch their demise, good riddance!
135
Racism TRUMPS religion in every age. Trump's success with evangelicals bares the hypocrisy of just another political block.
45
Remember Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson blaming 9/11 on the gays, feminists, and ACLU? The religious right has always been dominated by white male Christian nation disdain for not just gays but also the lazy undeserving poor, jobless, crack-addicted, single mothers, and otherwise afflicted, usually viewed as at least a few shades too brown or black. No Pope Francis here! They have been welcome guests in every Republican administration since Reagan's. But good news: some in the evangelical movement have belatedly got religion, and suddenly the poor, jobless, and drug-addicted are God's children too, deserving of our sympathy and help. Of course now it's opioids, not crack. And how white these precious souls!
The "prosperity gospel" was a sop to the evangelical rank and file, invented to keep them voting for the Republican platform of robbing their middle-class benefits (remember block grants to states, supporting child care?) to distribute ever more resources to the richest donors with whom the evangelical leadership shares holy water. Trump and Falwell form a natural alliance: Trump harnesses the rank and file rage at their deteriorating station in life, showing them whom to blame and hate for it (who needs gays when there are Muslims and immigrants?) while Falwell keeps them convinced that the Republican distribution of resources that's really responsible is God's will.
The "prosperity gospel" was a sop to the evangelical rank and file, invented to keep them voting for the Republican platform of robbing their middle-class benefits (remember block grants to states, supporting child care?) to distribute ever more resources to the richest donors with whom the evangelical leadership shares holy water. Trump and Falwell form a natural alliance: Trump harnesses the rank and file rage at their deteriorating station in life, showing them whom to blame and hate for it (who needs gays when there are Muslims and immigrants?) while Falwell keeps them convinced that the Republican distribution of resources that's really responsible is God's will.
67
To answer the question posed in the title:
We can only hope.
We can only hope.
29
The GOP basically sold out the Evangelicals on the gay marriage issue. So they lost their support. Trump is non-religious, so perhaps he won't fire up this base.
On the other hand....the basic argument here has been that Trump's only support is from stoopid, low information, low income, non-degreed, older white men in the Midwest and South. So now we are to believe that group is completely non-religious and secular? I don't know -- are they? Women tend to be more represented by religion and church-going then men, and supposedly no women support Trump.
Whatever this argument is, it has been twisted so many times, it's collapsing in on itself. Clearly SOME PEOPLE are voting for Trump -- do we even know who they are? Does the NYT ever bother to even ask?
On the other hand....the basic argument here has been that Trump's only support is from stoopid, low information, low income, non-degreed, older white men in the Midwest and South. So now we are to believe that group is completely non-religious and secular? I don't know -- are they? Women tend to be more represented by religion and church-going then men, and supposedly no women support Trump.
Whatever this argument is, it has been twisted so many times, it's collapsing in on itself. Clearly SOME PEOPLE are voting for Trump -- do we even know who they are? Does the NYT ever bother to even ask?
12
The reality is that the Religious Right has been aiding and abetting America's nationally assisted right-wing political suicide since Reagan's lieutenants organ-harvested their supernatural fantasies in 1980 and mutated their support into economic violence, intellectual suffocation and state-sponsored ill will toward others.
The one thing we know how about organized religion is that when it is mixed with government, it produces high-grade hypocrisy and systematic misanthropy, two of the most unJesus-like attributes in the book.
As Rabbi Michael Lerner has said:
"The unholy alliance of the Political Right and the Religious Right threatens to destroy the America we love. It also threatens to generate a revulsion against God and religion by identifying them with militarism, ecological irresponsibility, fundamentalist antagonism to science and rational thought, and insensitivity to the needs of the poor and the powerless."
The religious right has helped produce a widespread political denialism of science, evolution, basic birth control, fact, civil rights and a simultaneous celebration of cultured ignorance and stupidity, including its role as Best Supporting Actor in GOP Death Panel states denying health care, devout homophobia, 0.1% tax cut welfare and irrational subversion of the US Presidency.
Everyone knows Jesus was Democratic Socialist who would have viewed modern Republican theology as the creation of Lucifer In The Flesh.
Rest In Spite, Republican Religious Right.
The one thing we know how about organized religion is that when it is mixed with government, it produces high-grade hypocrisy and systematic misanthropy, two of the most unJesus-like attributes in the book.
As Rabbi Michael Lerner has said:
"The unholy alliance of the Political Right and the Religious Right threatens to destroy the America we love. It also threatens to generate a revulsion against God and religion by identifying them with militarism, ecological irresponsibility, fundamentalist antagonism to science and rational thought, and insensitivity to the needs of the poor and the powerless."
The religious right has helped produce a widespread political denialism of science, evolution, basic birth control, fact, civil rights and a simultaneous celebration of cultured ignorance and stupidity, including its role as Best Supporting Actor in GOP Death Panel states denying health care, devout homophobia, 0.1% tax cut welfare and irrational subversion of the US Presidency.
Everyone knows Jesus was Democratic Socialist who would have viewed modern Republican theology as the creation of Lucifer In The Flesh.
Rest In Spite, Republican Religious Right.
735
Socrates you are a must read every time. My only wish is for you to replace David Brooks as a columnist so that the words of truth will spread further. You are the much needed disinfectant this country has to have to kill the germs of greed and willful hate form the right wing nuts!!
4
S,
I'm glad to hear that you believe in a "historical Jesus" that is encouraging, perhaps there is yet hope for the soul you don't believe you possess!
I'm glad to hear that you believe in a "historical Jesus" that is encouraging, perhaps there is yet hope for the soul you don't believe you possess!
1
We can only hope and pray.
America has become a multi-cultural nation, and hence can never, ever go back to the sanctimonious, reactionary, holier-than-thou, one-size-fits-all style of spiritual or ethical understanding that these voters clearly prefer.
Even in its earliest days, while America might have been pious, it was certainly not authentically Christian - at least Christian in any sense that the historical Jesus might recognize and applaud. This was a nation that routinely condoned (and often even celebrated) racism, slavery, the use of violence in the settling of disputes, and the theft of native American lands by materially insatiable advocates of the old rugged cross.
We were never an authentically Christian nation, even if we were an overtly
pious nation.
Today, in our multi-cultural America, many different forms of spiritual and ethical understanding must compete for the attention of citizens - and any group that seeks to impose the hegemony of their preferred method of understanding must been seen a threat to the spiritual exploration of all, especially when this group so willingly surrenders their political allegiance to such obvious knaves, opportunists, and charlatans as Ted Cruz and Donald Trump.
While authentic Christians will always be a credit to American society, the reality is that they are few and far between. Jimmy Carter appears ones - Joel Osteen, not so much...and as for Trump and Cruz, cue up "Sympathy for the Devil".
America has become a multi-cultural nation, and hence can never, ever go back to the sanctimonious, reactionary, holier-than-thou, one-size-fits-all style of spiritual or ethical understanding that these voters clearly prefer.
Even in its earliest days, while America might have been pious, it was certainly not authentically Christian - at least Christian in any sense that the historical Jesus might recognize and applaud. This was a nation that routinely condoned (and often even celebrated) racism, slavery, the use of violence in the settling of disputes, and the theft of native American lands by materially insatiable advocates of the old rugged cross.
We were never an authentically Christian nation, even if we were an overtly
pious nation.
Today, in our multi-cultural America, many different forms of spiritual and ethical understanding must compete for the attention of citizens - and any group that seeks to impose the hegemony of their preferred method of understanding must been seen a threat to the spiritual exploration of all, especially when this group so willingly surrenders their political allegiance to such obvious knaves, opportunists, and charlatans as Ted Cruz and Donald Trump.
While authentic Christians will always be a credit to American society, the reality is that they are few and far between. Jimmy Carter appears ones - Joel Osteen, not so much...and as for Trump and Cruz, cue up "Sympathy for the Devil".
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"This was a nation that routinely condoned (and often even celebrated) racism, slavery, the use of violence in the settling of disputes, and the theft of native American lands by materially insatiable advocates of the old rugged cross."
Surprisingly, Jesus himself did not condemn slavery, rather offered advice on how to treat one's slaves. It's amazing what we find in the bible if we would only take the time to read it.
I read it through and through (twice) and came out the end an atheist, as any one who has not been indoctrinated as a child and has a modicum of critical thinking skills will do.
Surprisingly, Jesus himself did not condemn slavery, rather offered advice on how to treat one's slaves. It's amazing what we find in the bible if we would only take the time to read it.
I read it through and through (twice) and came out the end an atheist, as any one who has not been indoctrinated as a child and has a modicum of critical thinking skills will do.
8
All I can say is, wow.
From Times writer Sarah Posner, this is another incredibly helpful article in the broader effort by good journalists to help this confused armchair observer of the wacky, weird, very enthralling 2016 Presidential race.
I'm no historian and no journalist, just a fan of both methodologies, and I've studied enough American history to know that journalists simply don't have enough of a long view take on history to prove sweeping theories such as "the end of the religious right" etc. etc. But the question about what happens to the "religious right" in the Trump Era is one of the huge, huge questions (to paraphrase The Donald himself) that need to be asked about the 2016 race and what it means for the Nation going forward.
What I continue to love about the Times is the helpful way analysis like this is presented here in a sophisticated manner. I hope that by the end of this rocky political year independent-minded readers such as myself are given more tools like this piece to grapple with a changing, if not transformed political world.
From Times writer Sarah Posner, this is another incredibly helpful article in the broader effort by good journalists to help this confused armchair observer of the wacky, weird, very enthralling 2016 Presidential race.
I'm no historian and no journalist, just a fan of both methodologies, and I've studied enough American history to know that journalists simply don't have enough of a long view take on history to prove sweeping theories such as "the end of the religious right" etc. etc. But the question about what happens to the "religious right" in the Trump Era is one of the huge, huge questions (to paraphrase The Donald himself) that need to be asked about the 2016 race and what it means for the Nation going forward.
What I continue to love about the Times is the helpful way analysis like this is presented here in a sophisticated manner. I hope that by the end of this rocky political year independent-minded readers such as myself are given more tools like this piece to grapple with a changing, if not transformed political world.
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Martin Luther King said that the arc of history bends toward justice. It also bends toward truth. Religious zealotry in the political arena refutes truth and justice, and undermines the political process. It could hold back history for only so long. Having witnessed its ascension, one is gratified to be able to witness its dissolution as well.
The religious right has been the great impediment to rational dialog in this country.
The religious right has been the great impediment to rational dialog in this country.
863
Well said.
5
Ralph,
A quick review of history and the. Current state of our planet will show you that MLK was speaking about America "bending that arc". There is little to demonstrate any widespread movement towards "truth and Justice" in the world past or present. There is in fact little agreement on what "truth and justice" even represent and by simple numbers a majority of the world's population does not agree with our definition of those two concepts.
That said it is understandable that we don't even agree agree among ourselves. This is likely because the definition of "Truth and Justice" changes over time, as it in fact has, over the last 240 years of American history.
A quick review of history and the. Current state of our planet will show you that MLK was speaking about America "bending that arc". There is little to demonstrate any widespread movement towards "truth and Justice" in the world past or present. There is in fact little agreement on what "truth and justice" even represent and by simple numbers a majority of the world's population does not agree with our definition of those two concepts.
That said it is understandable that we don't even agree agree among ourselves. This is likely because the definition of "Truth and Justice" changes over time, as it in fact has, over the last 240 years of American history.
1
it may be a great impediment, but it is by no means alone. The stranglehold the fossil fuel industry has Congress is literally killing people as the glaciers melt, oceans rise and the water resources dry up. We have destroyed the earth and by the end of this century there will be no more large mammals. Our children will know of elephants, tigers, and polar bears only by photographs or the rare survivor living in captivity.
In the sixties there was a group with a song about pollution saying "like fools to the slaughter they are drinking the water and breathing the air." Soon, we will be gasping for air like the Chinese and struggling for a drop of filthy water like the people in parts of Africa.
In the sixties there was a group with a song about pollution saying "like fools to the slaughter they are drinking the water and breathing the air." Soon, we will be gasping for air like the Chinese and struggling for a drop of filthy water like the people in parts of Africa.
I sure hope so. Religion and politics, like oil and water, don't mix. Religious governments world wide (Pakistan, Saudi, Iran etc.) generally do not respect human rights or the rights of their minorities. We don't need religious "leaders" running American government.
497
And I'll add, religious leaders who use the terms "religion" and "Bible" to vindicate their narrow-minded ideas and try to force these down everyone else's throats.They are every bit as bad as Islamists - think of the way Planned parenthood clinics' personnel is being terrorized along with the women who go there, or the smugness expressed by one of these "religiously-motivated" when a doctor who performed abortions was shot., or how they demand that any element of scientific research that runs counter to the Bible be eliminated from the curriculum.
44
@ Burton Winn: In all fairness, many other states that disrespect human rights (China, Cuba, North Korea) have atheistic regimes. (I sense this also is true for Russia.)
But they share with theocracies tyrannical thought control, rejection of carefully collected evidence, and debate; they venerate their fearless, charismatic male leaders whose decisions come not from evidence but from their being granted all-powerful authority. In those ways, so much like religions.
But they share with theocracies tyrannical thought control, rejection of carefully collected evidence, and debate; they venerate their fearless, charismatic male leaders whose decisions come not from evidence but from their being granted all-powerful authority. In those ways, so much like religions.
3
The so-called "religious right" has always put more faith in Republian politicians and a.m. radio than in the Bible, happily embracing torture, the death penalty, bribery, mammon, and any war that anyone proposes. I don't think the divide among them is different from the divide among Republicans in general. It's a divide between the economic conservatives who want to surrender all power to the wealthy in hopes of crumbs from the table, and the cultural conservatives who are motivated simply by fear and hatred of various minorities, "liberals" and the poor.
411
"The purpose of the separation of church and state is to keep forever from these shores the ceaseless strife that has soaked the soil of Europe, in blood, for centuries".
James Madison
James Madison
1168
The First Amendment does not make exceptions. Abortion, birth control, LGBT rights, are under attack by governments in our states for religious reasons, in violation of the First Amendment. Establishing religious law is prohibited, imposing religious prejudices upon Americans is simply a violation. Where is the Supreme Court on this violation? Where are the lawyers?
12
@Craig Geary, Redlands, Florida: "Amen, I say unto you, if the scribes and the Pharisees and the money-lenders don't know their very own Constitution, how can you expect them to abide my teachings?"
5
Thank You, Mr. Geary. This says it all.
3
The Elmer Gantry appeal has always been magnetic within the evangelical community...I've been there and we just can't help it! Trump takes it a step further because he knows less about the Bible than Reagan but gets cover because of the P.T.Barnum effect!
62
I can't remember anyone ever reporting that they saw Donald Trump attending any religious services, with his bible, prior to his announcing his candidacy fro President of the U.S. What church does he attend, and when? Did I miss this report of his appearance?
1
To atheists like me, that would be his only plus.
5
Instead of all the moaning and groaning over how "we're all gonna die" now that Donald Trump is the presumptive Republican presidential nominee shouldn't we be thanking him for bringing the power of the religious right to a screeching halt?? This is the first time in recent history that the leading Republican nominee isn't kowtowing to the Red States. That alone is a reason o declare a holiday complete with dancing and rejoicing.
60
You make a good point. There are still the issues of his overt racism and his apparent pride in his own ignorance, but he is otherwise less scary than the rest of the cast of characters he defeated.
Hard as it may be to believe, the Republicans probably picked the least wrong candidate, including "moderate" darling Kasich. If he were less of a lout, he'd be our next president.
Hard as it may be to believe, the Republicans probably picked the least wrong candidate, including "moderate" darling Kasich. If he were less of a lout, he'd be our next president.
3
"evangelicals that are not interested in living among minorities and who remember a mythological white rural and suburban society where they were kings and queens. "
That sounds a lot like Mormons , Romney`s gang. Blacks weren't allowed to be Mormons until mid 20 century & of course there is the special afterlife planet waiting for Mormon leaders.
That sounds a lot like Mormons , Romney`s gang. Blacks weren't allowed to be Mormons until mid 20 century & of course there is the special afterlife planet waiting for Mormon leaders.
2
The likening of Trump's campaign to that of a prosperity theology ministry is fascinating, and one angle I had not considered before.
I think the analogy is crucial in explaining the appeal of Mr. Trump to so many so-called "evangelicals". After all, if you believe God wants you to be rich and successful, why would you not also believe that Trump will make America great again?
I think the analogy is crucial in explaining the appeal of Mr. Trump to so many so-called "evangelicals". After all, if you believe God wants you to be rich and successful, why would you not also believe that Trump will make America great again?
261
This concept was explored in thoughtful detail in Jeff Sharlet's long article from April linking Trump to the prosperity gospel and Norman Vincent Peale's "Power of Positive Thinking":
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/17/magazine/donald-trump-american-preache...
It's worth a read.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/17/magazine/donald-trump-american-preache...
It's worth a read.
1
It fascinates me when these people are referred to as Christian. Many of these groups exclude women from leadership positions; they are never seen in the pulpit. They involve themselves and congregants in fakery as they seek personal wealth. Trading in "blood diamonds" during uprisings on the African continent, climbing towers and posturing about imminent death if millions of dollars are not raised are but a couple of the well publicized rip-offs. Their childish Tooth-fairy-like journeys of myth are so impossible that it makes it easy for people like me to openly laugh at them. Their racist positions are, to them like the cross which was used as an instrument of death a couple hundred years ago. These self described Christians seemed nailed to it. Let them dry up there as succeeding generations turn away from their brand of snake oil and emulate the difficult tasks which the man whose name they abuse performed during his short stay on Earth. One branch of Christianity took time waking up to calls from Martin Luther and Galileo whom they punished for truth telling. Trump is unlike both of these but he is bringing so called leadership to heel. Just men will get our due.
48
The deeper our knowledge and the wider the dissemination of that knowledge (science and the internet), the smaller the space for small minds. They are feeling the squeeze as more people fall away from worshipping magical sky beings.
5
We might begin to have a somewhat constructive dialog in America if we would--if we could--just possibly admit that there really is no such thing as the "religious right." What passes for "morality" among this subset is the will to use the Bible as a weapon as an aggressive tool for the basic hegemonic purpose of continuing the religious contradiction that employs race in the service of their unloving, unforgiving, inflexible worldview.
Republican politicians from Richard Nixon paid assiduous lip service to "the religious right," Nixon solemnly invoking his "silent majority"; Reagan issuing his call to arms with his "moral majority." Where was the "religious right" when Nixon publicly promised to ignore black America with "benign neglect?" Where was the "religious right" in 1980 when Reagan abased himself at the foot of the cross of white supremacy in Neshoba County, Mississippi, to begin his race-coded presidency?
The disparaged and dismissed of America have been historically the native American; the slave; the female; the poor; the humble of birth; those whose God-given sexual orientation ran counter to the hard gospel of the political Right. This is the human flotsam that the "evangelical Christian right" have self-righteously and unconditionally rejected.
This GOP/TP subset races headlong into the eschatological wall of Christ's gospel message: "Inasmuch as ye have done it unto the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me."--Matthew 25:40.
Republican politicians from Richard Nixon paid assiduous lip service to "the religious right," Nixon solemnly invoking his "silent majority"; Reagan issuing his call to arms with his "moral majority." Where was the "religious right" when Nixon publicly promised to ignore black America with "benign neglect?" Where was the "religious right" in 1980 when Reagan abased himself at the foot of the cross of white supremacy in Neshoba County, Mississippi, to begin his race-coded presidency?
The disparaged and dismissed of America have been historically the native American; the slave; the female; the poor; the humble of birth; those whose God-given sexual orientation ran counter to the hard gospel of the political Right. This is the human flotsam that the "evangelical Christian right" have self-righteously and unconditionally rejected.
This GOP/TP subset races headlong into the eschatological wall of Christ's gospel message: "Inasmuch as ye have done it unto the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me."--Matthew 25:40.
248
Boston in Ill: About "their unloving, unforgiving, inflexible worldview". No wonder overall church attendance has gone down. Who wants to spend time around people like that.
7
Some of the more educated down here are usually the technically trained, very few are taught nor realize the Civil War was about slavery, instead States Rights. They never got to paragraph 2, ...i.e. the rights of states to have slavery. That is how we're taught, no between the lines critical thought, all linear,either or and that's it.