PRINCE Expressed a great passion for life that prominently included sexual passion. He brought joy to many and encouraged people to believe that expressing themselves in their entirety was part of the Creator's plan. Rest in peace.
3
"The Judeo-Christian ethic seems to demand that sexuality and spirituality be walled off from each other..."
In fact poetic intertwining of these supposed opposites--cupiditas and caritas--goes back at least to the Middle Ages where it was a fairly common, and playful, trope. More credit to Prince for finding his own ways of resurrecting it.
In fact poetic intertwining of these supposed opposites--cupiditas and caritas--goes back at least to the Middle Ages where it was a fairly common, and playful, trope. More credit to Prince for finding his own ways of resurrecting it.
7
"The rain is purple because it comes from Prince."
I can't believe this made it into the New York Times. Sounds like something from a high-school newspaper...
I can't believe this made it into the New York Times. Sounds like something from a high-school newspaper...
3
Enough of Prince commentary already!! He was a pop star, not another Bach or Beethoven.
7
Sex sells. Music. And religion!
Since both of his parents were musicians, he benefited both genetically and environmentally. He put out an immense amount of material. Anyone seeking success in that business will have Joni Mitchell's 'sex sells everything' to guide them. It is a journalistic feat to bid adieu with an emphasis on spiritual consciousness and make things worse by painting religious tradition as somehow weak in that regard. There was good music coming out in his heyday, and his was part of it. I'd probably be listening to fellow prolific Minnesotan Dylan; still, 'When Doves Cry' had the ring of truth and has reserved a place in memory.
3
While I certainly appreciate all of the thoughtful comments, and that people feel empowered to express themselves as they see fit, I must comment on how many commenters don't seem to have even the most basic knowledge of the man Prince, not the myth. From close family and friends who I've known and who have worked for him at various points over the past forty years I know that he was a non illicit drug user who fined his staff if they showed up to work high; was generous with his time and money to help less fortunate kids with musical talent get mentoring and other experiences; had a work ethic that would put most of us to shame; took care of his family, even when some of them couldn't or wouldn't take care of themselves; and, was a devoted Jehovah's Witness, which, while a Jew, I have tremendous respect for. My friends in the music business--producers, performers, agents, execs, all have said--consistently throughout the past several decades--that behind the scenes Prince was one of the most gifted, influential, well-rounded musicians of his/my/our generation. They are the people who really know the was going on in the biz and speak the truth.
I've always took pride in knowing that NYTimes readers are a cut above--please don't disappoint with uneducated or unsubstantiated comments. It brings the level of discourse to a distasteful low level.
I've always took pride in knowing that NYTimes readers are a cut above--please don't disappoint with uneducated or unsubstantiated comments. It brings the level of discourse to a distasteful low level.
18
It would be a mistake to equate JW with Christianity. They abohr churches. Nothing to do with Christianity. NALT.
1
What Prince did with his lyrics was encourage promiscuity and help spread STD's like AIDS. He brought the level of American culture to a lower level and paved the way for the violent lyrics of hip hop. He had that cross on stage but this is not what Christianity is about, dirty words.
1
"The Judeo-Christian ethic seems to demand that sexuality and spirituality be walled off from each other...." This is a profound misunderstanding of the Bible, too often perpetrated by we Christians who tend to conflate "spirituality" with a wholesale rejection of the body. As others have pointed out here, go read the Song of Songs, which graphically portrays a prince and his bride-to-bet longing for each other, but which is an extended metaphor for the relationship between Christ and the church. In the New Testament, Ephesians Chapter 5 picks up on a similar theme.
This being said, while the relationship between God and his people may be expressed as, and reflected in, sexuality, Prince's work seems to equate the two, or actually to elevate sexuality above the relationship with the living God, when it doesn't in fact ignore the latter (cf. for example "You Sexy MF"). In doing so, he not only played on, but encouraged, the obsession with things sexual which has done so much to ruin healthy human and spiritual relationships for millenia, an obsession that continues today. (Not incidentally, he profited handsomely it.)
I'm not advocating a Puritanical effort to put the genie back in the bottle, but isn't it time to temper the adulation he's receiving now with the observation that in this sense his work is much less revolutionary than is being claimed, and in fact undermines the kind of true "spirituality" which he laid claim to?
This being said, while the relationship between God and his people may be expressed as, and reflected in, sexuality, Prince's work seems to equate the two, or actually to elevate sexuality above the relationship with the living God, when it doesn't in fact ignore the latter (cf. for example "You Sexy MF"). In doing so, he not only played on, but encouraged, the obsession with things sexual which has done so much to ruin healthy human and spiritual relationships for millenia, an obsession that continues today. (Not incidentally, he profited handsomely it.)
I'm not advocating a Puritanical effort to put the genie back in the bottle, but isn't it time to temper the adulation he's receiving now with the observation that in this sense his work is much less revolutionary than is being claimed, and in fact undermines the kind of true "spirituality" which he laid claim to?
2
One of the best articles yet about Prince.
"Love is God,
God is Love,
Girls and boys love God above"
RIP my idol.
"Love is God,
God is Love,
Girls and boys love God above"
RIP my idol.
2
Saint Bonaventure said: "The desire for God begins in the sexual appetite."
5
"But people don’t realize how much time Prince spent all but evangelizing for his vision of Christianity." Actually, those of us who were paying attention—and that's a lot of people—knew exactly that. Please don't condescend. How about "some people" or "many people?"
8
Sigh. Okay, smartypants.
2
"They’re having sex under a sprinkling of angel tears, which are flowing because of the angels’ admiration of their love."
_____________________
I'm *so* glad to finally see someone talking about sex that includes love. Much written lately in the major-media on sex seems to be solely about porn.
That form of sex, IMO, is soul-less, callous, care-less, mind-less, and exploitative of women -- love-less, in essence.
Yet the overwhelming majority of commentors on those major-media porn articles (almost all men) seem to strongly support that form of sexual stimulation -- even though it is so debasing to women (and potentially causes violence -- mental and physical -- against them).
Hooray for Prince in seeing the true connection between love and sex. That's the way it should be.
_____________________
I'm *so* glad to finally see someone talking about sex that includes love. Much written lately in the major-media on sex seems to be solely about porn.
That form of sex, IMO, is soul-less, callous, care-less, mind-less, and exploitative of women -- love-less, in essence.
Yet the overwhelming majority of commentors on those major-media porn articles (almost all men) seem to strongly support that form of sexual stimulation -- even though it is so debasing to women (and potentially causes violence -- mental and physical -- against them).
Hooray for Prince in seeing the true connection between love and sex. That's the way it should be.
6
Wonderful tribute! In many religions the energy that flows when making love is one and the same with religious ecstasy. The first time anyone makes love, and a few times later, they are reborn, enlightened and made clean away.
". . . for him there was no need to separate the things we do on Saturday night from the things we do on Sunday morning."
I have never "walked the walk of shame." Loving, whether in the long, willing dive into a lifelong relationship or a mercy, a pity, a punishing, a whimsical, a generous, a desperate or circumstantial or "get lucky" coupling -- has always added something positive to my life. It has always been a reaffirmation, and I've been grateful. As for Sunday morning, I always rose cleaner, more ready for a message from God.
". . . for him there was no need to separate the things we do on Saturday night from the things we do on Sunday morning."
I have never "walked the walk of shame." Loving, whether in the long, willing dive into a lifelong relationship or a mercy, a pity, a punishing, a whimsical, a generous, a desperate or circumstantial or "get lucky" coupling -- has always added something positive to my life. It has always been a reaffirmation, and I've been grateful. As for Sunday morning, I always rose cleaner, more ready for a message from God.
6
"Say the Word...and you'll be Free.
Say the Word....and be like me.
Say the Word....I'm thinkin' of
Have you heard...The Word is Love."
Lennon and McCartney
Rock n Roll has always had messiahs to call the faithful home.
In L.A. Donovan supposedly got his audience chanting and they stopped the rain.
Miracles are everywhere, just like quantum physics. I think they're related.
Prince sounds like a Hindu or a yogi more than a Jehovah's Witness, but who am I to say.
Say the Word....and be like me.
Say the Word....I'm thinkin' of
Have you heard...The Word is Love."
Lennon and McCartney
Rock n Roll has always had messiahs to call the faithful home.
In L.A. Donovan supposedly got his audience chanting and they stopped the rain.
Miracles are everywhere, just like quantum physics. I think they're related.
Prince sounds like a Hindu or a yogi more than a Jehovah's Witness, but who am I to say.
4
@Bob Laughlin,
Who are you to say? Someone with an interesting point of view about Prince's work, which is no less valid. I'm glad you spoke. We're all ONE and we're in this TOGETHER.
4-23-16@11:13 pm
Who are you to say? Someone with an interesting point of view about Prince's work, which is no less valid. I'm glad you spoke. We're all ONE and we're in this TOGETHER.
4-23-16@11:13 pm
1
Please STOP! He was another musician/druggie who died. If you liked his music, OK for you. I couldn't stand his music or his persona. Like Madonna, he was just a little egotist. He's gone, get over it.
6
With all due respect, I know for a fact that drugs were never a part of Prince's modus operandi. Further, his influence on pop music and pop culture spanned four decades and was global. While you're certainly entitled to your opinion, I've come to expect more from NYTimes readers over the last forty years of reading it. Sir, please get your facts in order before firing off comments that insult mine, yours and the remaining Times readers' intelligence!
10
@bern,
Your comment reminds me of another I read in Prince's obituary. People are free to express themselves, aren't they? Just as you are? Some of us feel a sense of loss. No one's asking you to. But no one's going to stop commenting either.
4-23-16@10:53 pm
Your comment reminds me of another I read in Prince's obituary. People are free to express themselves, aren't they? Just as you are? Some of us feel a sense of loss. No one's asking you to. But no one's going to stop commenting either.
4-23-16@10:53 pm
2
I saw Prince in 1985, at the Forum, in Los Angeles, during his Purple Rain tour. It was one of the best concerts I’ve been to. In some songs he would be ultra sexual, even imitating having sex, and then in the next song, he would be on his knees, begging for forgiveness, singing to God, etc. It went back and forth like that.
I saw the Beatles in concert too (quite great, of course). They hugged, kissed, and loved you. Prince had sex with you, but it wasn’t anonymous sex.
I saw the Beatles in concert too (quite great, of course). They hugged, kissed, and loved you. Prince had sex with you, but it wasn’t anonymous sex.
19
@Jeffrey,
I'm sorrier now than ever that I never got to one of his concerts. It sounds intense.
4-23-16@10:54 pm
I'm sorrier now than ever that I never got to one of his concerts. It sounds intense.
4-23-16@10:54 pm
3
Great entertainer but a Jimi Hendrix, Little Richard wanna be. Bowie's creativity blows Prince away.
6
Hardly. Even Bowie was blown away by Prince's influence. Please read your music history. :-)
3
@kevin leeman,
Well, you've a right to your opinion.
4-23-16@10:55 pm
Well, you've a right to your opinion.
4-23-16@10:55 pm
This reminds me of commentaries on John Donne's works - early in his life, he wrote of sexuality in a spiritual way, and later on he wrote of spirituality in a sensual way ... but overall, he blended the two.
20
@NM,
I was thinking of Donne's work when I read this piece about Prince.
The Ecstasy, The Canonization and Holy Sonnet XIV Batter my heart, three-person'd God.
4-23-16@11:11 pm
I was thinking of Donne's work when I read this piece about Prince.
The Ecstasy, The Canonization and Holy Sonnet XIV Batter my heart, three-person'd God.
4-23-16@11:11 pm
Prince was a major part of my life, it's hard to accept that he is gone....leaving a treasure chest of incredible music for us...hopefully it will be released over time. He was incredible, no one came close to him. He remains a bright shining star giving us everything he had to give. Thank you Prince ....dance on & on.
7
@Sandra Garratt,
Oh, he will and he is. I was thinking of Prince's song My Name is Prince and some of the lyrics, which begin with I Wanna Be Your Lover (intense song, itself):
I did not come to funk around.
'Til I get your daughter I won't leave this town.
I also thought of his song'\s International Lover and Temptation, the former is pure physicality to me and the latter fits what Toure's talking about. Going back to My Name is Prince and 'Til I get your daughter, he had my ears and heart long ago.
I realize three things converged, at least for me, since I've just seen this piece tonight April 23. As I write this reply: this being 4-23-2016 is the 400th anniversary. of Shakespeare's death. We're still in National Poetry Month 2016. We've lost Prince--at least here. Until we join him and others we love on the other side and in the stars. NYT reader, Socrates said something wonderful and comforting in the obit comments. Socrates said that Prince and Bowie aren't gone. They've formed a halo around the world. I could have kissed Socrates, as I'd love to kiss Prince and bid him-- not adieu, but thank you. I'll love you 4 ever. Since I missed seeing you in your human form, my sis and I will jam with you, your guitar, your shimmering violet wings in Heaven. If I'm lucky, maybe my late sister will tell me what a celestial concert with his royal Rude Boy badness is like, in my dreams.
4-23-16@11:58 pm
Oh, he will and he is. I was thinking of Prince's song My Name is Prince and some of the lyrics, which begin with I Wanna Be Your Lover (intense song, itself):
I did not come to funk around.
'Til I get your daughter I won't leave this town.
I also thought of his song'\s International Lover and Temptation, the former is pure physicality to me and the latter fits what Toure's talking about. Going back to My Name is Prince and 'Til I get your daughter, he had my ears and heart long ago.
I realize three things converged, at least for me, since I've just seen this piece tonight April 23. As I write this reply: this being 4-23-2016 is the 400th anniversary. of Shakespeare's death. We're still in National Poetry Month 2016. We've lost Prince--at least here. Until we join him and others we love on the other side and in the stars. NYT reader, Socrates said something wonderful and comforting in the obit comments. Socrates said that Prince and Bowie aren't gone. They've formed a halo around the world. I could have kissed Socrates, as I'd love to kiss Prince and bid him-- not adieu, but thank you. I'll love you 4 ever. Since I missed seeing you in your human form, my sis and I will jam with you, your guitar, your shimmering violet wings in Heaven. If I'm lucky, maybe my late sister will tell me what a celestial concert with his royal Rude Boy badness is like, in my dreams.
4-23-16@11:58 pm
2
So basically, what the article is saying is that you become an 'artist' when you confuse sex and religion. How profound this sounds for the forever- fifteen crowd: Cohen's 'Hallelujah' redux for the newer generation, and all that.
3
'I got 2 sides
And they're both friends'
And they're both friends'
5
@rmb,
OH YEAH!! Best friends. Yin will have yang.
4-24-16@12:11 am
OH YEAH!! Best friends. Yin will have yang.
4-24-16@12:11 am
2
Sadly, why using homoerotic imagery to sell himself, he publicly proclaim he was against the equality of gays.
For him, gays were a convenient business tool
For him, gays were a convenient business tool
7
@ E C,
Your comment took me by surprise. I found two articles online which state that Prince criticized the press for misquoting him and that he actually referred to not judging people.
4-24-16@12:27 am
Your comment took me by surprise. I found two articles online which state that Prince criticized the press for misquoting him and that he actually referred to not judging people.
4-24-16@12:27 am
1
The Other Side
I liked Prince's music and performances ... but Prince-The-Man was not that important to me. I know, I know, you can't miss the man if you pay attention to the music. But I'm "older" and found Elvis much more compelling.
It sounds to me, however, from the tone of this article and almost all of the comments, that I missed out on the Second Coming.
Oh well ... next time.
I liked Prince's music and performances ... but Prince-The-Man was not that important to me. I know, I know, you can't miss the man if you pay attention to the music. But I'm "older" and found Elvis much more compelling.
It sounds to me, however, from the tone of this article and almost all of the comments, that I missed out on the Second Coming.
Oh well ... next time.
3
Oops, I almost forgot ...
Right, Elvis was even more compelling to me ... and Chuck Berry ... and Little Richard ... and James Brown ... ... and The Everly Brothers ... and Otis Redding ... and Marvin Gaye ... and Tina Turner ... and Bob Marley ... and Johnny Cash ... and Madonna ... and Hank Williams ... and Bo Diddley ... and The Boss ... and Aretha Franklin ... and did I mention Chuck Berry. And, oh yes, don't forget Chuck Berry!
My 4-year-old granddaughter would kill me if I failed to mention David Bowie.
Right, Elvis was even more compelling to me ... and Chuck Berry ... and Little Richard ... and James Brown ... ... and The Everly Brothers ... and Otis Redding ... and Marvin Gaye ... and Tina Turner ... and Bob Marley ... and Johnny Cash ... and Madonna ... and Hank Williams ... and Bo Diddley ... and The Boss ... and Aretha Franklin ... and did I mention Chuck Berry. And, oh yes, don't forget Chuck Berry!
My 4-year-old granddaughter would kill me if I failed to mention David Bowie.
1
Touré is little out of his depth when he so simplistically characterizes Judeo-Christian attitudes towards sex.
4
As I expected the artist was an adolescent.
Just another mixed up, confused, and off base "star"
And he is just another mixed up and confused human being that made up his own version of christianity.
Is Prince in heaven? Only God and Prince know that, was he really being guided by God in his life and music career? Only God and Prince know that.
He certainly did NOT follow the teachings and truth of the gospel, and the fact that he lived such a "clean" life means nothing.
I was not a fan but hate to see any person end up like he did.
And he is just another mixed up and confused human being that made up his own version of christianity.
Is Prince in heaven? Only God and Prince know that, was he really being guided by God in his life and music career? Only God and Prince know that.
He certainly did NOT follow the teachings and truth of the gospel, and the fact that he lived such a "clean" life means nothing.
I was not a fan but hate to see any person end up like he did.
3
And, you know this, how?
From my personal knowledge, he never did illicit drugs and used to fine staff members if they showed up high.
He was a devout Jehovah's Witness, which, the last time I checked, was an acknowledged denomination of Christianity.
From my personal knowledge, he never did illicit drugs and used to fine staff members if they showed up high.
He was a devout Jehovah's Witness, which, the last time I checked, was an acknowledged denomination of Christianity.
1
Whenever a critic talks about a pop singer as being one of greats of "all time," you can be sure that that means from about 1955 to the present.
6
Prince not even in top 20 of all time. C'mon people.
1
With all due respect, Mr Leeman, you're a bit off I terms of your knowledge of music history of the past fifty years.
@kevin leeman,
I guess that's where different strokes comes in.
4-24-16@12:14 am
I guess that's where different strokes comes in.
4-24-16@12:14 am
1
Too many religionists are uneducated, closed off completely to the complexities of humanity.
4
Thanks so much for the insight. I had noticed that Holy Lust thing with Prince as well as with Marvin Gaye and even Madonna to an extent but for a long time I couldn't quite put my finger on what it was. Thanks for explaining it so clearly. "Adore" is my favorite!
3
@Laura,
I love "Adore" too!
4-24-16@12:13 am
I love "Adore" too!
4-24-16@12:13 am
Prince had me at beginning but then lost me as the years went on. I loved the artistic freedom and creative independence especially compared to the musically lazy, creeping brain vomit of the then growing hip hop universe but in hindsight a lot of Prince's output just seems more like pornographic drivel sprinkled with well-timed "Amens." Add to that the self-love fest and limitless ego along with the "illuminati" and other world conspiracy theories nonsense and he became really tough to swallow. The dude could get funky with bursts of real timeless musical genius but all in all I'm not with the mass adulation. Religious leader/prophet? Give me a serious break. Making all that cash yet a "Slave"? Please. He carried on a great tradition but Jimi, Miles, Bird or Trane he was decidedly not.
13
Check out Dirty Mind (1979/80) and Controversy (1980/81) if you want to hear Prince at his pornographic, nasty best. His more recent stuff is nothing compared to those two albums!
Singing about sex and gods. Not a turn on for me. Ultimately, music is about taste. And for those who loved Prince, I am saddened by his passing. And I am very impressed by what I have learned about his mentoring and generosity.
But what I have learned about his evangelizing makes me gag. And for me, the blatant sexuality is just well, weird. Do what you want, but keep it at home.
No, I don't want sex or gods from my music. JMO. Enjoy, if you wish.
But what I have learned about his evangelizing makes me gag. And for me, the blatant sexuality is just well, weird. Do what you want, but keep it at home.
No, I don't want sex or gods from my music. JMO. Enjoy, if you wish.
2
Although he responded to the question, 'How many instruments do you play?', with 'Thousands', the reported count was 27.
5
@William,
27? Not too shabby.
4-24-16@12:38 am
27? Not too shabby.
4-24-16@12:38 am
1
Once you play three instruments, you can learn all very speedy.
He worked very hard for it, it does not come out of nothing. Respect for that!
He worked very hard for it, it does not come out of nothing. Respect for that!
2
I've been playing "Adore" non-stop since Prince died. I kept thinking "people really don't understand Prince if they don't know this song & and if they don't realize how deeply religious he was."
I have so many more thoughts...but can't really put it into words as it just after 5:00am, but what I can say is: Thank you, Toure.
I have so many more thoughts...but can't really put it into words as it just after 5:00am, but what I can say is: Thank you, Toure.
3
Adulation gravitates to the lowest common denominator
4
@oneperson,
There's nothing lower than arrogance, which is what you've just voiced.
4-24-16@12:49 am
There's nothing lower than arrogance, which is what you've just voiced.
4-24-16@12:49 am
2
For 32, years we at The Body Electric School have been "Celebrating the Body Erotic" in a workshop devised to understand the deep mystery and connection of Eros and the spiritual. In the US, Canada, Australia and most recently Israel, these workshops open eyes and individuals to discover that our bodies and our souls are more connected than we realize.
1
I think Toure should have mentioned, that one aspect of Prince's spirituality was his belief in animal rights, that we shouldn't eat them. He was vegan.
7
I just read this article and I was thinking it must be the Onion News. He was just another delusional sex obsessed celebrity. Sure he made some good music but come on......
2
I'm astounded that the NY Times didn't do some research about Jehovah's Witnesses. Their belief is that only Jehovah Witnesses will survive Armageddon and they will then live in paradise on earth forever. They do not believe in the afterlife. A lot of this article is completely wrong. It's to bad that this article will be read, and people will try to interpret his music because of it. The reality of his music is much different if you actually know his religion beliefs. An afterlife and paradise on earth is not even remotely similar. It's tragic that this article will go down in history and his music will be misinterpreted because of it.
8
I agree, but in Toure's defense, it IS an opinion piece.
The irony here is that JW theology holds that those who die before Armageddon (eg Prince) will be resurrected to the New System so they may learn "the Truth" in a paradise Earth.
The only catch? The resurrected will live eternally as sexless beings, unable to, in Jesus words, "marry or be given in marriage" and thus will spend an eternity as a sexless eunuch.
Also, the irony of Prince writing the word 'slave' on his face (to protest a Warned Bros deal he voluntarily signed), only to end up as a 'slave' of a high-control cult, is thick. Of course, he rebuffed ALL attempts to control his talent, and presumably that included the JW cult (which he supposedly left).
Brotha, Rest in Peace, wherever you are (if only in a non-existent state), and thank you for the heavy grooves!
The irony here is that JW theology holds that those who die before Armageddon (eg Prince) will be resurrected to the New System so they may learn "the Truth" in a paradise Earth.
The only catch? The resurrected will live eternally as sexless beings, unable to, in Jesus words, "marry or be given in marriage" and thus will spend an eternity as a sexless eunuch.
Also, the irony of Prince writing the word 'slave' on his face (to protest a Warned Bros deal he voluntarily signed), only to end up as a 'slave' of a high-control cult, is thick. Of course, he rebuffed ALL attempts to control his talent, and presumably that included the JW cult (which he supposedly left).
Brotha, Rest in Peace, wherever you are (if only in a non-existent state), and thank you for the heavy grooves!
4
He was a Popular music artist who will end up in the dustbin of nostalgia like they all do. Remember the wailing over Michael Jackson's death? Nobody really cares anymore. Just the way it is. When Mick and Keith and Paul and Ringo it will be the same.
1
It's a great time to remember Prince's religious messages, and I appreciate the message that the erotic is entwined in his work.
It really is fascinating, to me, how different his Jesus is than, say, U2's Jesus. I'll be over here with Prince, if you need me.
It really is fascinating, to me, how different his Jesus is than, say, U2's Jesus. I'll be over here with Prince, if you need me.
10
In the words of Jimmy Buffett, "There's a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning..."
13
Enough of this pretentious hagiographic claptrap which diminishes the man. Leave him alone. Play his music. Let him rest in peace.
4
That "the Judeo-Christian ethics seems to demand that sexuality and spirituality be walled off from each other" is very false. Beside the explicitly erotic Songs of Solomon, the Bible is full of love stories and explicit sexuality. Israel is called God's bride and the Church is the bride of Christ. What the Bible or the Judeo-Christian ethic inveighs against is adultery, fornication and sexual licentiousness that debases the sacredness of marriage and corrupts morals. Indeed, the restrictions that the Judeo-Christian ethic places on sexual licentiousness is the reason some have wrongly concluded that it is against sex and love.
3
Toure - I hope you know some people who are JWs so you can get a true answer to my question. I realize he converted within the last decade to the JWs, but having been raised in that Cult, the last song of his to hit the airwaves that I've heard within the year have quite questionable lyrics. I don't know the title of the song but like I said if you know any JWs, have them play a game where they were the lyric writer on the song and it got airplay and some of the folks in their congregation heard those lyrics and knew who was singing it, your JW friends would tell you they would be hauled in front of the Elders after being reported on by others in the Congregation who have heard the song and know those lyrics are not fit for a JW to be singing. Also ask your friends if they could stay away from the meetings are participating in field service or participating the Ministry School without weekly participation without hearing from the Elders. The average JW would've been Disfellowshipped for such.
2
I remember well "4 the Tears in Your Eyes" which was his contribution to the "We Are the World" album for famine relief in Ethiopia. It's a beautiful song, deeply religious, and I remember being taken by surprise by it-- it was in stark contrast to the overproduced, treacly, self-righteous lyrics of "We Are the World" (Prince was wise not to participate in that one!)-- and listening to it today, after not hearing it for 20+ years, I was deeply moved. The man had a gift. May he rest in peace.
14
@Citizen K.,
I will definitely listen to "4 the Tears in Your Eyes." I suppose it's a question of preference. I don't think "We Are the World" is in the least self-righteous or treacly. I've always been moved by it. I do agree, though, Prince was gifted.
We've lost so many good people, too young and in such a short space of time. Sometimes I get the NYT or elsewhere and brace myself for the painful answer: who's next?
4-24-16@12:57 am
I will definitely listen to "4 the Tears in Your Eyes." I suppose it's a question of preference. I don't think "We Are the World" is in the least self-righteous or treacly. I've always been moved by it. I do agree, though, Prince was gifted.
We've lost so many good people, too young and in such a short space of time. Sometimes I get the NYT or elsewhere and brace myself for the painful answer: who's next?
4-24-16@12:57 am
We'll know soon what caused Prince's death but one hint is taking a combination of pain killer, percocet, and seizure disorder suppressor, phenobarbital.
Prince had epilepsy from childhood so he might have taken something for the seizures. He also had surgery for a hip issue and was taking pain killers for that. Along with other medications he may have taken, there is a possibility of an accidental overdose caused a respiratory failure.
If this occurred when he was alone at home, there was no one to help him. He had recently fallen unconscious on a plane flight and was taken to a hospital for treatment. The same cause could have occurred at home while alone!
Prince had epilepsy from childhood so he might have taken something for the seizures. He also had surgery for a hip issue and was taking pain killers for that. Along with other medications he may have taken, there is a possibility of an accidental overdose caused a respiratory failure.
If this occurred when he was alone at home, there was no one to help him. He had recently fallen unconscious on a plane flight and was taken to a hospital for treatment. The same cause could have occurred at home while alone!
5
@michael kittle,
Thank you for the information, really. I knew about the 911 plane landing but not the rest, including his epilepsy. The pill combo sounds like a lot.
4-24-16@1:00 am
Thank you for the information, really. I knew about the 911 plane landing but not the rest, including his epilepsy. The pill combo sounds like a lot.
4-24-16@1:00 am
Prince was set to perform on the roof of the Capitol Records building in Hollywood not so many years ago, but he wouldn't start until someone could produce a bible from the building. It took a long time to find one.
5
Prince is the most over-rated 'artist of our time
He had a Super-Dooper-Excited Cult following, but as far as making really great music, he is/was far, far down the list
I remember very well back in the 80s, when he was at his peak, and I couldn't name more than a handful of his songs, and he was almost nonexistent on the radio
{Reality-Check= Another HUGE act from that time, KISS, was likewise almost completely invisible on the radio too}
Prince like to rail, against the Studios, but he didn't have any problem taking their money when they paid him the biggest advances in history, far more than Michael Jackson
Many people are very jazzed about his one-man-band operation where he did it all himself. There are quite a few people like that, Todd Rundren far exceeded him on that.
- - -
The one thing special about Prince was how many people copied him, ala Michael Jackson
Prince's sexuality to me, was too vulgar, and far too little artistic
FOR ME, the most artistic sexuality came from Aerosmith: 10-Inch-Record, Back-in-the-Saddle, Sight-for-Sore-Eyes, Dude-Lady, Lick&Promise,
I DO love some of Prince's music "I could never take the place of your man"
and on one of his movies, the whole thing was basically a tribute to the drumming of Shelia-E
And his lyrical outlook was special "doing something next to nothing, but different from the day before"
He had a Super-Dooper-Excited Cult following, but as far as making really great music, he is/was far, far down the list
I remember very well back in the 80s, when he was at his peak, and I couldn't name more than a handful of his songs, and he was almost nonexistent on the radio
{Reality-Check= Another HUGE act from that time, KISS, was likewise almost completely invisible on the radio too}
Prince like to rail, against the Studios, but he didn't have any problem taking their money when they paid him the biggest advances in history, far more than Michael Jackson
Many people are very jazzed about his one-man-band operation where he did it all himself. There are quite a few people like that, Todd Rundren far exceeded him on that.
- - -
The one thing special about Prince was how many people copied him, ala Michael Jackson
Prince's sexuality to me, was too vulgar, and far too little artistic
FOR ME, the most artistic sexuality came from Aerosmith: 10-Inch-Record, Back-in-the-Saddle, Sight-for-Sore-Eyes, Dude-Lady, Lick&Promise,
I DO love some of Prince's music "I could never take the place of your man"
and on one of his movies, the whole thing was basically a tribute to the drumming of Shelia-E
And his lyrical outlook was special "doing something next to nothing, but different from the day before"
2
His music was strictly for the music illiterates. That always ensures a large following: pure middle school Hannah Montana stuff.
@David Henry, @Zip Zindel,
You've both got a right to your opinions. But it sounds as if you're confusing or conflating opinion with fact.
David Henry, it's possible to enjoy Prince as much as Wagner, Beethoven, Lady Day and B.B. King. The good news is, we're all free to enjoy what we like, regardless of what others think.
4-24-16@1:06 am
You've both got a right to your opinions. But it sounds as if you're confusing or conflating opinion with fact.
David Henry, it's possible to enjoy Prince as much as Wagner, Beethoven, Lady Day and B.B. King. The good news is, we're all free to enjoy what we like, regardless of what others think.
4-24-16@1:06 am
"but he was also one of the most important religious artists of all time. "
Indeed, right along with Michelangelo and Handel as the Messiah of jungle love.
Indeed, right along with Michelangelo and Handel as the Messiah of jungle love.
2
@jgury,
Of all time? I had to go back and re-read that after seeing your comment. I love Prince's music but, of all time? Have we gotten through eternity? I appreciate that the NYT might have felt the desire to get another piece out about Prince, but this one needed more work before being published.
4-24-16@1:11 am
Of all time? I had to go back and re-read that after seeing your comment. I love Prince's music but, of all time? Have we gotten through eternity? I appreciate that the NYT might have felt the desire to get another piece out about Prince, but this one needed more work before being published.
4-24-16@1:11 am
1
Sex and spirituality walled off from each other? Not at all. Read the Song of Songs (Song of Solomon, Cantica). Read the Mystics.
5
Oh please, let us refrain from publicly figuring out a deceased man's mind, motives, and being within 24 hours after he has passed away.
A person's relationship with God and religion and faith is personal, while alive or dead. Can't we just keep it that way?
Let's be grateful of Prince's contributions, but to gnaw away at his ideas whether real or not real, on the day his autopsy is performed is inappropriate.
A person's relationship with God and religion and faith is personal, while alive or dead. Can't we just keep it that way?
Let's be grateful of Prince's contributions, but to gnaw away at his ideas whether real or not real, on the day his autopsy is performed is inappropriate.
10
"The Judeo-Christian ethic seems to demand that sexuality and spirituality be walled off from each other... ". This statement is both correct and incorrect. The realm of the spiritual world and the realm of the flesh are separate when the Spirit is not allowed to be the master of both. On the other hand, the act(s) of sex is recognized in Christianity as a gift from God to be enjoyed within the confines of - and as a blessing - of marriage. Celibacy for the unmarried; fidelity in marriage. Sexual energy channeled within the framework of marriage strengthens the family. Prince perhaps may have been trying to define his own brand of a Judeo-Christian sexual ethic, but to those observers who were not among his followers, his lifestyle otherwise seemed to express a certain amount of lust as well, nor did his drug life contribute much to his well-being.
1
I really, really don't get all of this breast beating, world is over, self torture over this man's death. Please everyone stop it. No way he was as earth shaking as he is being made out to be. Give us all a break. Sorry he died, but, no, he wasn't the end all, be all of music.
7
@Tom,
While I respect your right to express your opinion. Your comment is rather confusing. You've submitted a comment asking others not to speak, whether the author or fellow NYT readers?
4-24-16@1:15 am
While I respect your right to express your opinion. Your comment is rather confusing. You've submitted a comment asking others not to speak, whether the author or fellow NYT readers?
4-24-16@1:15 am
"The Judeo-Christian ethic seems to demand that sexuality and spirituality be walled off from each other, but in Prince’s personal cosmology, they were one."
That is a uniquely Christian concept. Under the Jewish tradition, sex (within marriage) is absolutely meant to be spiritual.
That is a uniquely Christian concept. Under the Jewish tradition, sex (within marriage) is absolutely meant to be spiritual.
2
Great article. However, regardless of the religious message he was trying to spread, it had little impact on most of his fans. We loved his amazing musicianship, his ability to entertain, his hyper sexuality, and his passion. His religious nuttiness -- not so much.
11
Hard to celebrate his passion without taking in his ecstasy.
3
I'm not a christian but I have the highest respect for Desmond Tutu, Archbishop of Cape Town. Among other things he's pointed out God's apparent delight in 'concupiscence'.
You are of course overlooking how he turned on the gay community after his conversion.
2
"You can remember Prince as one of the most sexual artists of all time, and you would be right, but he was also one of the most important religious artists of all time."
Giving new meaning to either "tongue-in-cheek" or "has no idea what he's talking about" journalism.
How about until Thy Kingdom Come, Touré?
Giving new meaning to either "tongue-in-cheek" or "has no idea what he's talking about" journalism.
How about until Thy Kingdom Come, Touré?
2
Prince was a very live wire...a fully alive wire. Unbridled energy can be a gift and a burden. One can merge in the magic moment and after, one is alone with one's spark. That fact that he played most of the music on his records and wrote constantly speaks to his genius and likely, his aloneness. I am sorry to see him go....
4
What was his spiritual message? RIP
I wonder if we'll ever see another musical artist with such a broad appeal across so many demographic lines, whose work is so daring, sophisticated and imaginative. Prince was a major artist -- and widely popular! Yes, the ecstasy of sex, art, and communion with the divine (connecting with your vision of God, not with man-made religion) are all facets of the same thing. And so is "Adore." And "When Doves Cry." And "Kiss." And "I Could Never Take the Place of Your Man." And "Little Red Corvette." The transcendental experience isn't so much described in words; it comes from deep in the music.
12
But why no mention of "7", "Three Chains o Gold" or "God" (Purple Rain version)? Those songs were not only evangelical and powerful, they were just straight-up Biblical exegesis. A clever interplay of Genesis and John 1 is "God" -- the old and new testament, belief in the Word and belief in the Word as flesh (plus, "God" is the plot-point of Purple Rain when Appollonia and The Kid finally smash). "7" is the awesome profundity of Prince's spiritual-religious contemplation; a 'Cliff Notes' version of the Book of Revelations. Despite its horrid MV, "3 Chains o' Gold" is as symbolically dense as Mozart's Die Zauberflote.
3
@Nicole,
Well you've mentioned 7 and I'm glad you did. I do love that song and I do pay attention to the lyrics. Danke, also, for mentioning Die Zauberflote. There's a lot going on in both.
4-24-16@1:21 am
Well you've mentioned 7 and I'm glad you did. I do love that song and I do pay attention to the lyrics. Danke, also, for mentioning Die Zauberflote. There's a lot going on in both.
4-24-16@1:21 am
With Prince gone, now all Minnesota has left, is Al Franken. Help! Help!
9
Well, there's still Michele Bachmann... [shudder].
Well, you also have the former Congresswoman Michelle Bachmann, who presumably is sitting closer than ever to God. And on a more admirable level, Garrison Keillor.
In his music sexuality and religion coexisted. In the older Black culture there was a sharp devision between blues music and church. There was a constant battle. It was looked upon as a fight between God and the devil. I loved the fact he never moved from the Minneapolis area.
I also found his music very attractive to both homosexuals and heterosexuals. It was like he had a foot in both worlds.
I also found his music very attractive to both homosexuals and heterosexuals. It was like he had a foot in both worlds.
16
@luke,
You've made me think of the eroticism, contrasts, mentioned in this piece and more.
"Erotic City" "Adore." And one again, "Temptation."
4-24-16@1:24 am
You've made me think of the eroticism, contrasts, mentioned in this piece and more.
"Erotic City" "Adore." And one again, "Temptation."
4-24-16@1:24 am
Overstuffed analysis. Sex is spiritual? In the age of Tinder and such, completely doubt it. Maybe in the past - not now. Now it's about relieving stress and monotony while haphazardly engaging in a minute moment of intimacy. Argue otherwise as you swipe for another 15 minute relationship and a "quickie". Spirituality and God in sex? You must be kidding.
4
Prince was a man who as a musician celebrated the commonalities, the similarities and even the occasional overlaps between the sexes, the races and the religions.
I and many millions of others are in the camp of those who celebrate the differences. I like men who walk, talk and act as men. And women who act as women.
This is a fight that is unlikely to ever
end as a peaceful truce between the two sides.
From the looks of the enormous grief being displayed here, those who are in the camp of celebrating the commonalities have just lost a significant leader in their fight.
I and many millions of others are in the camp of those who celebrate the differences. I like men who walk, talk and act as men. And women who act as women.
This is a fight that is unlikely to ever
end as a peaceful truce between the two sides.
From the looks of the enormous grief being displayed here, those who are in the camp of celebrating the commonalities have just lost a significant leader in their fight.
2
@A. Stanton,
I agree with much of what you say. But, I like men and women who act which ever way they please and in however comes naturally to them.
I also agree, about Prince's celebration of what we have in common, etc., was wonderful. Plus he celebrated differences. Maybe we've lost him. Maybe his spirit is everywhere and we still have his music, 4 ever.
4-24-16@1:29 am
I agree with much of what you say. But, I like men and women who act which ever way they please and in however comes naturally to them.
I also agree, about Prince's celebration of what we have in common, etc., was wonderful. Plus he celebrated differences. Maybe we've lost him. Maybe his spirit is everywhere and we still have his music, 4 ever.
4-24-16@1:29 am
Prince only (from my eyes) loved, "Lust" steals and covets away from nature.
Doves are crying/Doves are crying/Doves are crying/...
Doves are crying/Doves are crying/Doves are crying/...
1
@Frank,
The doves cry. They mourn. They soar behind him as far as they can follow within limits--til it's their turn to join him.
4-24-16@1:31 am
The doves cry. They mourn. They soar behind him as far as they can follow within limits--til it's their turn to join him.
4-24-16@1:31 am
One in a long line of poets and artists conflating the ecstasies of the divine and the flesh, among them John Donne, Bernini, Christina Rossetti, and whoever wrote the Song of Songs.
4
@Chas Stewart,
Your comment makes me think so much of the poets I studied as an English Lit major: Donne and Rossetti. I tend to delve into Song of Songs on my own. And that potent Bernini sculpture of St. Theresa.
...Prince...
4-24-16@1:38 am
Your comment makes me think so much of the poets I studied as an English Lit major: Donne and Rossetti. I tend to delve into Song of Songs on my own. And that potent Bernini sculpture of St. Theresa.
...Prince...
4-24-16@1:38 am
One man's conflation is another man's synthesis.
If he believed in Jesus as The Messiah he was not a Jehovah's witness. I suggest that whomever wrote this article do some research on that subject. Like most reporting in this day and age the reporter doesn't have the intelligence or research ability to tell the truth.
1
It's an opinion piece, but otherwise I agree: Prince was hardly a model "JW", since per JW doctrine, God approves of sex only within the confines of marriage. They also believe homosexuality is a sin, etc.
JWs are very conservative, and making up theology "on the fly" is verboten, since that's the sole domain of the Governing Body of JWs. Anything other than following their dictates is considered as 'apostasy' and is strongly discouraged.
Last I heard (and it may be a Prince urban legend), he abandoned the cult (or was kicked out, AKA disfellowshipped), leaving to form his own religious group accompanied by a JW friend who was originally responsible for his conversion.
JWs are very conservative, and making up theology "on the fly" is verboten, since that's the sole domain of the Governing Body of JWs. Anything other than following their dictates is considered as 'apostasy' and is strongly discouraged.
Last I heard (and it may be a Prince urban legend), he abandoned the cult (or was kicked out, AKA disfellowshipped), leaving to form his own religious group accompanied by a JW friend who was originally responsible for his conversion.
3
Thank you for sharing this reflection, Toure.
Prince was so gloriously black. His black body had to be among the most exalted in the history of humankind. Culturally, the tension you describe connects him to the gospel-to-blues continuum as it emerged a century ago, reflected in his lyrics as well as in his music.
We've lost a truly great African American man to the afterworld.
Prince was so gloriously black. His black body had to be among the most exalted in the history of humankind. Culturally, the tension you describe connects him to the gospel-to-blues continuum as it emerged a century ago, reflected in his lyrics as well as in his music.
We've lost a truly great African American man to the afterworld.
@Ed Sugden,
We've lost a delicious, juicy, angelically decadent Black man.
4-24-16@1:33 am
We've lost a delicious, juicy, angelically decadent Black man.
4-24-16@1:33 am
All the speculation about his belief system, drug use, and sexuality, are irrelevant and trivialize his pure genius.He was ethnically,racially, and gender , transcendant. All that matters is the pure joy he brought to those who loved his talent and his preternatural ability to get people to respond to his essence, which was his music.
3
Maybe the author should read The Song of Solomon.
4
Bring on the feminist interpretations, as they tie themselves in knots trying to incorporate male lust and glorify, post facto, Prince's gender-busting persona.
He had this ability to combine things without seeming oversexed or 'sermon y'. He was comfortable with having both interact. He was completely real with his guard up or down. He was an artist who chose his path, inhabited his beliefs and shared them with us. He operated on big stages and small. He was a change agent in music and in many lives I suspect. I know this white girl from the south got him immediately. Charisma in everything.
Good night sweet Prince and may angels guide you to your resting place.
Good night sweet Prince and may angels guide you to your resting place.
15
This article...magnificent!!
13
Prince was deeply religious. As an artist, you often have the feeling that you are drawing from a source beyond...the connection to "something out there", a divine intelligence; the source of all creativity and creation become very real. And so it was for him. Although the mingling of sex and religion is little understood in the West certain Hindu and Buddhist tradition utilizes the energy of sexual union as a spiritual tool. Prince said that everything he did was inspired by God, but I did not consider him a fanatic. I remember an interview that influenced me because it made so much sense; his response to being asked how he would feel if his belief in God was wrong.….what if he died and there was indeed nothing on the other side? And his response was that he would have no regrets; that he would have lived a better life anyway; a life with more grace and gratitude, etc. I couldn’t agree more.
62
Maybe you should ask the ghost of Vanity what type of relilgious person Prince was. She was a user of women is my guess. He wanted to be a woman.
"Lust" steals and covets away from nature, Prince only (from my eyes) loved.
Doves are crying/Doves are crying/Doves are crying/...
Doves are crying/Doves are crying/Doves are crying/...
6
Your comment "The Judeo-Christian ethic seems to demand that sexuality and spirituality be walled off from each other, but in Prince’s personal cosmology, they were one. Sex to him was part of a spiritual life." is inaccurate. It may be so in Christian theology; however, in Judaism, the sexual union between a married man and a woman is considered a mitzvah, a good deed, one of the highest forms of being. It is part of spiritual life.
44
Sex, in the Christian Theology is a sanctified act and strictly to be kept so. Christianity teaches us that our bodies are the temple of the Holy Spirit and not to be defiled--defiled through sex outside of marriage, including the various other things common in our society today-- drug abuse, alcoholism, tattoos, to name just a few. For true Christians (not nominal ones) sex is a holy act.
1
Interesting comment... to this raised-catholic man. Looking back (alas, way back) at the girls and women I was with, I felt like the supplicant, figuring out how to gently convince them to share their beauty with me. But the ones who clearly picked me out, laid a trail of escargot for me to naively follow, not even realizing I was enroute to their bedrooms, were all Jews.... yet more evidence that the Jews are just smarter than we are. Now wrinkled and rickety, I miss that lovely ritual more than I miss the Latin Mass, and remember them with devotion; my stations of the cross.
As a born and bred Papist, I have to echo this dissent on behalf of Christianity. I was taught and believe sex is a sacred and spiritual gift of God. It is only our society and social values that have debased human sexuality to mere animalistic hedonism.
1
I grew up when the Beatles were the real revolutionaries. The kind of "real" that rocks many parts of society.
I never got that from Prince, despite his fans. He did many things well, but he was a derivative artist.
I never got that from Prince, despite his fans. He did many things well, but he was a derivative artist.
16
Then why did you even bother to read this article? Are you just going on every Prince related article to decry the oft heard baby boomer rally cry of our artist were actually real and meant something greater? YAWN! The Beatles are good but they are not the end of all good music. And people can and have been moved by different artists. I for one am over every 70 something baby boomer going on and on about the greatness of the 60s.
20
Too funny. As if The Beatles were not derivative: "Long Tall Sally", "Roll Over Beethoven" to name a few. If it wasn't for George Martin, John Lennon wouldn't know what an oboe was.
Your comment, while valid as opinion, is ignorant and shallow. If you want to know how amazing Prince is ... ask Eric Clapton.
Your comment, while valid as opinion, is ignorant and shallow. If you want to know how amazing Prince is ... ask Eric Clapton.
4
The Beatles drew upon every previous and current-at-the-time musical style imaginable over their all too brief career. If Prince was derivative, so were they. And I say that as a fan of both.
I found this article after I searched for "prince adore" because in the last 24 hours I hadn't seen the song mentioned, and I figured somebody else had to share my opinion. For me, "Adore" is absolutely essential. Luther Vandross meets John Donne's Aire and Angels. The rapped bridge is the funkiest minute in music-- In the days before internet lyrics, I spent hours listening to this minute over and over, until I understood the line that made me shake every time I heard it: "I ain't funking just for kicks, no." No sir, he wasn't.
30
The author's premise about Judeo-Christian spirituality and sexual love somewhat inaccurate or misleading. Th gist of St. Augustine's approach is consistent with the body/spirit dichotomy of Platonism, but not the integrated body/spirit/sexuality spirituality found in the Biblical Song of Songs [e.g., My lover is like a gazelle, a young stag ....] and the line of Jewish and Christian mystics for whom sexual love was a significant reflection of the divine love of God. prince would have found poetic sustenance for his vision in the writings of Kabbala and the Sephirot, or, St. Bernard of Clairvaux and St. Teresa of Avila.
53
If you listen to his Love Symbol album it seems he was well acquainted with Kabbalah
Sexuality and spirituality are built on the same principles of "losing your life to find it," --- of giving to receive, etc.
13
Marvelous article. Thank you for this.
9
Socrates talked about eros, the motive force in the search for the Good/the g-d; he followed Diotema, the woman in the temple, in the journey beyond vacuous rationalizations -- toward what we all truly want. If we can't swim in reality to try to reach the Something More, then we miss the boat.
Prince messed up, he did wonders, he was Alive. So, in joy, RIP.
Prince messed up, he did wonders, he was Alive. So, in joy, RIP.
4
Indeed, fusion of the erotic with the divine is one connection I've always seen between Prince's art and that of Leonard Cohen. Cohen, of course, was both more direct and less explicit. For example, from Cohen's Hallelujah:
There was a time you let me know
What's really going on below
Ah but now you never show it to me, do ya?
Well but I remember, yeah, when I moved in you
And the holy dove; she was moving too
Yes and every single breath that we drew was Hallelujah
There was a time you let me know
What's really going on below
Ah but now you never show it to me, do ya?
Well but I remember, yeah, when I moved in you
And the holy dove; she was moving too
Yes and every single breath that we drew was Hallelujah
30
Thank you. This is exactly the comment I was about to write. Leonard Cohen's connection of the erotic and the spiritual permeates his music. As a more musician, Cohen is not as talented as Prince was, but as a poet, his lyrics are unmatched.
2
Everyone fantasizes that there are "religious messages" in various artists tunes. Now it's Prince.
12
Well, since you put it that way…it's the greatest bait-and-switch ever!
7
And the drama of him being a slave to his record company.... spare me again.... he was very well versed in contracts and made a deal that the record company would spend millions of dollars on promotion, have hundreds of their employees work on that, and in return he granted them certain rights.
Then all of a sudden he was a slave/victim.
Sorry.... not true
Then all of a sudden he was a slave/victim.
Sorry.... not true
7
You are not an artist. Your perspective is not one from an artist who views all his work as his children and wants to control, guide, and nurture that and profit from it. The record company at some point told him could not use the name his mother gave him. How would you feel about that? What more. Ask John Foggerty how he feels about record companies--or any female artist.
April 22, 2016
Fusion arts for in the popular imagination and glorification of success and the invention of sub culture hermaphrodite paganism in the guise of tintinnabulations and now may the gentlemen Prince rest and peace.
jja Manhattan, N. Y.
Fusion arts for in the popular imagination and glorification of success and the invention of sub culture hermaphrodite paganism in the guise of tintinnabulations and now may the gentlemen Prince rest and peace.
jja Manhattan, N. Y.
2
Prince loved the God who gave him sexual satisfaction.
I would have liked to ask him "Where were was God when
criminals were born?"
I would have liked to ask him "Where were was God when
criminals were born?"
4
What criminals? Drunk drivers? Megachurch preachers who sell promises for 10% of your wage and never have to themselves pay taxes on their earnings? People become who they are mostly through nurture.
1
Touré's claims, "The Judeo-Christian ethic seems to demand that sexuality and spirituality be walled off from each other...." Surely the poetry of John Donne, Andrew Marvel, John Milton and earlier poets in the Judeo-Christian tradition give the lie to this deeply ignorant view. Prince was working within a tradition that blends religious and sexual ecstasy. The connection between the erotic and the sacred is deeply Christian and deeply Jewish. Not meaning to take anything away from Prince. But Touré's blindness to the past impairs his vision of the present and of Prince's extraordinary contribution.
63
Dead-on right, Mr. Wopsle, and well said. Was Prince a fabulous artist? Absolutely. "One of the most sexual artists of all time?" "One of the most important religious artists of all time?" Bold statements that cover a lot of time and a lot of artists. The author should be careful of hyperbole that detracts from his points.
2
San Juan de la Cruz, Santa Teresa de Avila
1
Sex, spirituality, and death have been intertwined since the dawn of human culture, interrupted only by the punitive, fearful Judeo-Christian outlook. Prince was tapping into an age-old ethos -- and thank goodness for it.
11
Actually, Prince may have gotten it right. Although Chirsitianity never fully grasped the sexual-religious aspect of love within marriage, Judaism did. In fact, in Jewish law, a man is legally obligated to satisfy his wife (she has no obligation to satisfy him). In fact, it is a commandment to do so. May Prince RIP. http://www.jesusandtheprofessor.com/2010/05/a-mothers-day-post.html
7
Whatever he believed in life he now knows the truth, or he now knows naught.
4
Thanks for these diverse, insightful articles and giving this artist the front page coverage he deserves.
6
Bravo! The relationship between sex and spirituality is one that hasn't been explored nearly enough. The impulse that drives us to connect with other human beings in the most intimate of ways is not not far removed from the impulse that drives us to connect with God. Those impulses reside within the realm of mystery, which is best described by poets, artists, musicians, and all others who speak the language of the soul.
Your article makes it very clear that Prince spoke the language of the soul.
Your article makes it very clear that Prince spoke the language of the soul.
10
Like a number of Christian fundamentalists, Prince was strongly homophobic. His published comments indicate that he had contempt for LGBT people.
13
The Judeo-Christian ethic seems to demand that sexuality and spirituality be walled off from each other.
You couldn't be more wrong. Read The Book of "Song of Songs" by King Solomon. Pure unadulterated, joyful sex. Exactly as God created it.
Prince's love of sex and God lines up perfectly with the Bible.
You couldn't be more wrong. Read The Book of "Song of Songs" by King Solomon. Pure unadulterated, joyful sex. Exactly as God created it.
Prince's love of sex and God lines up perfectly with the Bible.
17
It’s like you constantly feel God’s presence shadowing you wherever you are, but wherever you are, He’s always about 50–100 yards away: turn around; run closer; or run away—He’s always there: can’t shake him; can’t reach him. He’s always 50–100 yards away.
2
Love this!
Referring to a "Judeo-Christian" attitude towards sexuality mistakenly conflates two groups - Christians and Jews - whose respective changing historical attitudes towards sexuality are fundamentally different. To simplify a complex topic:
In early Christianity, for example, the peak ideal of holiness is non-sexual celibacy, allowing the holiest people (priests and nuns, etc) to focus on God exclusively without sexual activity.
In ancient Judaism and until today, the peak ideal of holiness is the precise opposite, with celibacy considered a deficient state. Instead, the ideal of holiness is found in marriage between man and woman (clergy and others are identical in this and almost every area) in which sexual relations are a sanctified, obligatory component not only for procreation, but also for the satisfaction of the couple's desire.
In early Christianity, for example, the peak ideal of holiness is non-sexual celibacy, allowing the holiest people (priests and nuns, etc) to focus on God exclusively without sexual activity.
In ancient Judaism and until today, the peak ideal of holiness is the precise opposite, with celibacy considered a deficient state. Instead, the ideal of holiness is found in marriage between man and woman (clergy and others are identical in this and almost every area) in which sexual relations are a sanctified, obligatory component not only for procreation, but also for the satisfaction of the couple's desire.
16
Beautifully written and important insight into an important man that created so much happiness for so many all over the world. A huge, devastating loss, and I am overwhelmed with sadness. Toure, you are right about Adore. For sure a central song in the canon, if not the central. And beyond the poetry and crystalline beauty of the lyrics is the aural, sonic beauty. Everything that this man touched, before it reached one's ears, turned into a sweet riot of shimmering, life-affirming, electrocuting magic. Oh, here I go again Falling in love all over.
5
Very nice tribute and invitation to all of us to look at the connection between sex and spirit. A common misunderstanding.
You wrote, "The Judeo-Christian ethic seems to demand that sexuality and spirituality be walled off from each other." Perhaps true in Christianity. In Judaism sex is holy, pleasure required, at least between a married woman and man.
I hope others will follow Prince's lead and give us sex in music that isn't defaming or shaming, but joyous, reverent, sacred.
You wrote, "The Judeo-Christian ethic seems to demand that sexuality and spirituality be walled off from each other." Perhaps true in Christianity. In Judaism sex is holy, pleasure required, at least between a married woman and man.
I hope others will follow Prince's lead and give us sex in music that isn't defaming or shaming, but joyous, reverent, sacred.
9
Judeo Christian Ethic seems to demand that sexuality and spirituality be walled off from each other? Lots of examples, yes, but your view is a little narrow. Try this -
She
12 While the king was at his table,
my perfume spread its fragrance.
13 My beloved is to me a sachet of myrrh
resting between my breasts.
14 My beloved is to me a cluster of henna blossoms
from the vineyards of En Gedi.
He
15 How beautiful you are, my darling!
Oh, how beautiful!
Your eyes are doves.
She
16 How handsome you are, my beloved!
Oh, how charming!
And our bed is verdant.
He
17 The beams of our house are cedars;
our rafters are firs.
She
12 While the king was at his table,
my perfume spread its fragrance.
13 My beloved is to me a sachet of myrrh
resting between my breasts.
14 My beloved is to me a cluster of henna blossoms
from the vineyards of En Gedi.
He
15 How beautiful you are, my darling!
Oh, how beautiful!
Your eyes are doves.
She
16 How handsome you are, my beloved!
Oh, how charming!
And our bed is verdant.
He
17 The beams of our house are cedars;
our rafters are firs.
16
"The Judeo-Christian ethic seems to demand that sexuality and spirituality be walled off from each other..." I have never understood this. As an observant non-fundamentalist Protestant, I was taught that our sexual pleasure was a created by God and that it is a gift to be enjoyed. The "wall" between Godliness and genuine human pleasure is a construct of a secular society that reaps profits from objectifying sexual beings and the sexual act itself.
15
@June,
You won't find many secularists thinking sex to be dirty. It is one of the greatest joys for persons in a committed relationship.
You won't find many secularists thinking sex to be dirty. It is one of the greatest joys for persons in a committed relationship.
1
@June
You must be kidding, blaming the secular. Have you ever heard of fundamentalism?
You must be kidding, blaming the secular. Have you ever heard of fundamentalism?
1
Yes. Probably too many superlatives in this tribute, but important message nonetheless. Pay attention to your artists, America ... they are the conduit to the collective.
5
>>>>>
Enough already!
Enough already!
20
Enough of what? Mourning a person of such immense talent? Not enough already!
@james
First, there is a limit to mourning. After some point it becomes idolatry, and a rather silly one at that.
First, there is a limit to mourning. After some point it becomes idolatry, and a rather silly one at that.
1
Great article. Making clearer the theme of Prince's combining the flesh with the Spirit. And importantly, Prince left out the shame. Which was gracious and intelligent of him.
Like many I listened feverishly and loved Prince, but I never quite made that carnal/God connection. Maybe I chose to ignore. Thanks for the insights.
And while we're on the subject of sheer ecstasy...remember the thrill, when you were out at a club or at a party. Dancing.
And then a Prince song came on.
As an atheist, comes darn close to making one a believer:)
Thanks for the insights.
Like many I listened feverishly and loved Prince, but I never quite made that carnal/God connection. Maybe I chose to ignore. Thanks for the insights.
And while we're on the subject of sheer ecstasy...remember the thrill, when you were out at a club or at a party. Dancing.
And then a Prince song came on.
As an atheist, comes darn close to making one a believer:)
Thanks for the insights.
9
Thank you. An innovative, respectful and thoughtful essay on some of Prince's most creative contradictions.
Such a seductive musician in so many varied ways.
Such a seductive musician in so many varied ways.
2
"Now let me tell you about my Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ " The Prince is Peace at Peace with His Majesty his Lord ..forever and ever and ever amen
10
A "savior" for a male is someone who has lived life to the fullest as a man. Jesus never had sex, never married, never had children. If I'm looking for a savior I'd want a male who had married and had children. maybe lost a wife in childbirth, lost another child to cancer. Jesus is a bogus savior for any male living a complicated life.
All I know about Prince is what I’ve read and heard in the last day – I’m a classical singer who doesn’t know rock and pop since the 60’s when I grew up as well as I should. But I’m also an Episcopal priest and I know the Christian spiritual tradition reasonably well. Sadly, I understand why the author would write that the “Judeo-Christian ethic seems to demand that sexuality and spirituality be walled off from each other" -- way too much of what has been said about sex in the name of Christianity has made it seem that sex is evil, dirty and couldn’t possibly have anything to do with God.
The healthy heart of the tradition, though, knows better. Sexuality is part of the Creation named “good” by God in Genesis. The erotic is celebrated in The Song of Songs in the Hebrew Scriptures -- a touchstone text for Christian spirituality at least since the Middle Ages, and the source of much passionate spiritual poetry -- “On a Dark Night” by John of the Cross, for instance, https://josvg.home.xs4all.nl/cits/lm/stjohn01.html or Benjamin Britten’s setting of Frances’ Quarles’ poem, “My Beloved is Mine and I am His” www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlT2U--CzRo – music & words Prince might well have liked. Beyond poetry and music, I have known the presence of God in making love, and surely Prince and I are not alone in that. I'm glad that Prince shared the intersection of the erotic and divine as in his music – but it’s not quite so unusual an idea or experience as the author seems to think.
The healthy heart of the tradition, though, knows better. Sexuality is part of the Creation named “good” by God in Genesis. The erotic is celebrated in The Song of Songs in the Hebrew Scriptures -- a touchstone text for Christian spirituality at least since the Middle Ages, and the source of much passionate spiritual poetry -- “On a Dark Night” by John of the Cross, for instance, https://josvg.home.xs4all.nl/cits/lm/stjohn01.html or Benjamin Britten’s setting of Frances’ Quarles’ poem, “My Beloved is Mine and I am His” www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlT2U--CzRo – music & words Prince might well have liked. Beyond poetry and music, I have known the presence of God in making love, and surely Prince and I are not alone in that. I'm glad that Prince shared the intersection of the erotic and divine as in his music – but it’s not quite so unusual an idea or experience as the author seems to think.
82
I had the same thought. Has that author read The Song of Solomon!?!?
Why would Prince's Lord and Savior practice abstinence while encouraging his followers to have hot terrestrial sex? Seems twisted and ominous to me.
5
I kind of think Prince had it right. Sex and spirituality are linked. It's only some organized religions that want us to think differently. Beauty, art, music, sex all have the ability to take us out of our day-to-day physical bodies onto another plane. Religion just tries to formalize that quest. That's why humans built soaring cathedrals, and the greatest composers used to write church music. Taking sex out of the equation for spirituality is absurd on its face.
36
This particular article (by Toure) makes Prince seem truly awful, obsessed alternately with sex and afterlife. Was this the real Prince? I hope not.
5
Yes, anyone who chooses to have a religion is free to interpret and express that religion in any way he/she desires — which is one of the best reasons I can think of to keep religion miles and miles away from our laws and our government. It's sad that someone like Prince, who seemed so evolved and iconoclastic, should remain enslaved by ancient superstitions.
8
Enslaved? That seems like the antithesis of Prince. The point is that for Prince religion nurtured his creative pursuits, or, perhaps the two were one and the same for him. He's a prime example that religion doesn't necessarily negate human choice and creativity. It's strange one would assume people are so enslaved that they couldn't make a choice regarding religion, whether the choice is atheism or theism or anything else along the spectrum.
23
So very true.
While probing the depths of creativity and music, he apparently didn't do much research on the subject of religion.
He would have found his beliefs were rooted in indoctrination, superstition, and
delusion, IMO.
While probing the depths of creativity and music, he apparently didn't do much research on the subject of religion.
He would have found his beliefs were rooted in indoctrination, superstition, and
delusion, IMO.
2
Again, why not conjure the ghosts of someone like Vanity to get an insight into a manipulative Prince.
1
"Adore" is on "Sign O' the Times" arguably his best album. Every song on the album is either about sex or religion or both; and I agree, "Adore" is the perfect blend of the two. The most blatant, all religious, no sex song on the album is "The Cross" with obvious allusions to Jesus and the metaphorical cross we all carry. The most blatant, all sex song, no religion (I think) is maybe "Hot Thing."
However, I think his best songs are about relationships, maybe a bit sexy sometimes, or even a quick religious allusion, but more about trust, honesty, power, fidelity between a couple. From "Sign o the Times" see "Forever in my Life," "Strange Relationship," "The Ballad of Dorothy Parker," and "I Could Never Take the Place of your Man"....Prince at his best, I think, commenting on the difficulty of making it work. These songs might be more grounded in content, not as much in the clouds or the bed, but still lyrically and musically amazing. Some of my favorites by Prince are about awkwardness and the struggle and the not knowing.
However, I think his best songs are about relationships, maybe a bit sexy sometimes, or even a quick religious allusion, but more about trust, honesty, power, fidelity between a couple. From "Sign o the Times" see "Forever in my Life," "Strange Relationship," "The Ballad of Dorothy Parker," and "I Could Never Take the Place of your Man"....Prince at his best, I think, commenting on the difficulty of making it work. These songs might be more grounded in content, not as much in the clouds or the bed, but still lyrically and musically amazing. Some of my favorites by Prince are about awkwardness and the struggle and the not knowing.
24
For those who missed it, check out the film: "Sign O' the Times"
Mostly a Concert film, and probably his best, with a couple of hits.
plus the mostly unknown "I could never take the place of your man"
ALSO: Shelia-E is featured very prominently throughout this film,
As far as 'real' drummers go, she may not be all that special, but she is a treat for the eyes and ears in this movie.
Mostly a Concert film, and probably his best, with a couple of hits.
plus the mostly unknown "I could never take the place of your man"
ALSO: Shelia-E is featured very prominently throughout this film,
As far as 'real' drummers go, she may not be all that special, but she is a treat for the eyes and ears in this movie.
2
The fact that religion and sexuality are considered contradictory is completely ridiculous. Look what happened to the Shakers.
11
Look at what happened to the Takers.
I was taken by surprise and saddened by the news of the passing of Prince. He didn't look 57, he looked 35, I thought he was indestructible and would be around for another forty years.
His personality was large even if he wasn't, he was the most under-rated guitar player of all time, one of the most virtuoso axmen in rock music, right up there with Clapton, Beck, Van Halen, Jimmy Page, and Buddy Guy if not Hendrix himself.
His personality was large even if he wasn't, he was the most under-rated guitar player of all time, one of the most virtuoso axmen in rock music, right up there with Clapton, Beck, Van Halen, Jimmy Page, and Buddy Guy if not Hendrix himself.
63
Of course, there's the wonderful anecdote about Clapton being asked how it feels to be the world's greatest guitarist, to which he answered, "I don't know....why don't you ask Prince"?
6
Just saw a quote from Clapton, when he was asked how it felt to be the world's greatest guitarist, he answered: I don't know, ask Prince.
Sorry he blamed both his parents and couldn't have a family of his own. But a hyper sex drive is a sign of distress, not a virtue to be praised.