We may not like "these oppressive regimes", as one comment below mine puts it. But the GCC countries (Saudi Arabia, Oman, UAE, Qatar, Bahrain, Kuwait) are the only countries across the entire Middle East and North Africa (with the exception of Jordan and Israel) that have anything resembling stable governments.
If the USA wants to have influence in this part of the world then these are the people we MUST talk to.
If the USA wants to have influence in this part of the world then these are the people we MUST talk to.
Are we seriously going to pretend that these oppressive regimes can be "nudged" to treat their respective populaces better? That misguided delusion harkens back to our own country's plan in the late 1700s to slowly phase out slavery. When an entire nation has at its foundation a subjugation of women and a total intolerance of other religions, among other things, "nudging" is anathema to real change.
Can we look this dismal diplomatic effort in the face and see it for what it is? Kowtowing to oil rich countries. Were it not for their oil, these nations wouldn't be worthy of a nudge, see, e.g., Africa.
While I harbor no hope that Obama has the diplomatic capacity to effectuate real change in this moral wasteland that freely suffers human rights atrocities (including biblical style stonings and honor killings) at least I would hope that a free press would recognize the patent hypocrisy and identify it for what it is - moral duplicity, if not utter cowardice.
Can we look this dismal diplomatic effort in the face and see it for what it is? Kowtowing to oil rich countries. Were it not for their oil, these nations wouldn't be worthy of a nudge, see, e.g., Africa.
While I harbor no hope that Obama has the diplomatic capacity to effectuate real change in this moral wasteland that freely suffers human rights atrocities (including biblical style stonings and honor killings) at least I would hope that a free press would recognize the patent hypocrisy and identify it for what it is - moral duplicity, if not utter cowardice.
2
Why would anyone believe or trust Obama. Actions speak, but his words mean nothing as he has actions and policies have shown.
2
Saudis are not our allies, they financed 9/11, stop selling them weapons, period, they end up in the hands of our adversaries. The entire Middle East should be stripped of ALL weapons for world peace.
1
It is mind boggling to me that we continue to deal with this region, and do nothing to remove our dependence on foreign oil. Oil money funds many terroristic groups, and we, the US, use the most. Why do we not have a policy to promote electric cars, and green technology? As long as we use oil, we will deal with nations that support or promote, in part, or flagrantly, with terroristic groups.
Additionally, our policies in this region have been abysmal, from Bush to Obama. Shock and awe lead us to a decade and half of occupation, and ignoring Libya, and making empty threats to Syria, damaged our credibility in the region.
Additionally, our policies in this region have been abysmal, from Bush to Obama. Shock and awe lead us to a decade and half of occupation, and ignoring Libya, and making empty threats to Syria, damaged our credibility in the region.
In fact, only just over 3% of the USA's total oil consumption comes from Saudi Arabia, which is our second largest foreign source, providing 3%. Our #1 foreign source is Canada at about 10% of our total consumption. The USA imports about 24% of its total oil consumption.
We really wouldn't have to do much to become totally independent of foreign oil, Canada aside.
I believe our efforts at influence with Saudi Arabia have less to do with our own oil needs as with having a say in which other countries Saudi Arabia supplies.
We really wouldn't have to do much to become totally independent of foreign oil, Canada aside.
I believe our efforts at influence with Saudi Arabia have less to do with our own oil needs as with having a say in which other countries Saudi Arabia supplies.
'Fighting terrorism with Saudi Arabia' ahaha its like fighting alien with predator.. ISIS and Saudi are basically the same..human rights in ksa are the worst in the entire world..I guess nobody cares anymore just because they have oil
Obama has no right to criticize the politics of any nation so long as he plays nice with the most totalitarian dictatorship on earth.
4
If the US really wants to win the anti-terror war against the ISIS and al Qaida and ensure regional security in the Middle East, it has to look beyond the Saudi Arabia and its Gulf allies and bring Iran too on board. For, given the Sunni-Shitte sectarian power competition in the region and its spill over effect on the radicalisation of Islam, unless both Saudi Arabia and Iran- the champions of the Sunni and Shiite Islam- are brought together in a strategic alliance no lasting peace could be restored in the Middle East.
1
the Saudi's are playing obama like a puppet; they know full well obama is nothing but an empty suit. obama sold this country down the river with his Iran agreement; the saudi's are fully aware of this and are smart enough to know Iran will use their money to attached Israel and the US.
Trump is the only individual who has the nerve it takes to put this country back on track.
Trump is the only individual who has the nerve it takes to put this country back on track.
5
Saudi Arabia is after all, just a paper tiger
They function with 90% imported brain power
Virtually the entire population of nationals is brainwashed, kinda like North Korea
They have about 30 million people, of which 25% are foreigners..
Iran is a very westernized country by comparison.
Iranians are much more intelligent.
Iranians are NOT ARABS
The two countries are like day and night
Iran has about 80 million citizens
Iran has hundreds of CHURCHES and SYNAGOGUES (not one in Saudi Arabia)
Iran is thousands of years old as a nation Saudi Arabia is about 90 years old..
Saudi Arabia is just a blip in time and it would be astonishing if Saudi Arabia is around in another 50 years..
just saying..
They function with 90% imported brain power
Virtually the entire population of nationals is brainwashed, kinda like North Korea
They have about 30 million people, of which 25% are foreigners..
Iran is a very westernized country by comparison.
Iranians are much more intelligent.
Iranians are NOT ARABS
The two countries are like day and night
Iran has about 80 million citizens
Iran has hundreds of CHURCHES and SYNAGOGUES (not one in Saudi Arabia)
Iran is thousands of years old as a nation Saudi Arabia is about 90 years old..
Saudi Arabia is just a blip in time and it would be astonishing if Saudi Arabia is around in another 50 years..
just saying..
7
You forgot to mention that Iranians are Persians
And Persians have in common with the Romans one thing they were both defeated by Arab Muslims through out history which is still a source of hatred. We thank Allah that we are still here were Persians and Romans are long gone. The future for the survivors.
And Persians have in common with the Romans one thing they were both defeated by Arab Muslims through out history which is still a source of hatred. We thank Allah that we are still here were Persians and Romans are long gone. The future for the survivors.
As president Obama said earlier, they are freeloaders. He should tell them to their faces. We don't even need their oil anymore, we get most of it from North and South America, and there are plenty of other ways to produce electricity without burning oil or gas in the 21st century.
4
Feels like NYTimes readers cannot decide what they want; or maybe the ideal where everyone holds hands is their utopia.
You attack the US when they fight in the middle east, saying it is not our business; just get out. Then you want to go after Saudi because they treat women poorly and spread Wahhabism.
Maybe, just maybe, we should form a coallition with NATO and Europe and insist on a game plan that starts within 48 hours of the meeting. I say this because NATO loves to meet and discuss and it will be 20 years of memos and letters before anything happens. And perhaps we should let China and Russia no that if they are not a part of the solution for fighting terrorism from ISIS, they are not a part of the UN.
But no matter what, the US will not change the thinking in the middle east and appears not to comprehend the influence that Islam has over these tribes caught in the 1700s.
You attack the US when they fight in the middle east, saying it is not our business; just get out. Then you want to go after Saudi because they treat women poorly and spread Wahhabism.
Maybe, just maybe, we should form a coallition with NATO and Europe and insist on a game plan that starts within 48 hours of the meeting. I say this because NATO loves to meet and discuss and it will be 20 years of memos and letters before anything happens. And perhaps we should let China and Russia no that if they are not a part of the solution for fighting terrorism from ISIS, they are not a part of the UN.
But no matter what, the US will not change the thinking in the middle east and appears not to comprehend the influence that Islam has over these tribes caught in the 1700s.
1
Obama castigated President Bush for his relationship with the Saudis. Now Obama himself is kowtowing to the same Saudis. He will never allow the release of the redacted 28 pages about the 9/11 attacks, because he knows the Saudis will be implicated and that the American people will demand revenge. That would destroy his "Islam is a religion of peace" narrative, as well as his legacy.
3
For some years now, Republicans have mischaracterized President Obama's efforts to mollify the players in the Middle East that was destabilized by the George W. Bush Administration's serial blunders, which were encouraged by many of those same Republican voices.
As with the economy (and the election), it's clear the GOP has no idea how to manage much of anything.
As with the economy (and the election), it's clear the GOP has no idea how to manage much of anything.
"How to deal with Iran". Maybe it doesn't need to be dealt with. Action bias in foreign policy is a very dangerous thing.
If the Saudis are one of our "friends" in the Middle East, we are truly friendless. There are numerous reasons why we need to end our reliance on fossil fuels. Kneeling in front of these terrorist-supporting liars is one of them.
1
The US and Saudi Arabia don't have the same idea of where they want to head. The US and Saudi Arabia have big differences. Iran leaps to mind. Obama would like to integrate Iran into the regional security and Saudi Arabia would like to blow it off the map. The Saudis have a visceral hatred of Shiites. Neo cons in the US have wanted to have regime change in Syria for years. The US and Saudi efforts to achieve that have been a disaster, The Saudis wanted the US to bomb Syria after the infamous chemical weapons attack on innocent Syrian civilians which the Saudis blame on Assad. The US has concluded that the attack was perpetrated to goad the US to attack Syria by al Nursa and Turkey.
1
Why didn't Obama discuss the Gulf States' unconscionable refusal to take Muslim refugees from Syria? He needs to tie the sale of weapons to them to their commitment to fighting AQ and ISiS as well as taking in a million or so refugees in each country. Then we can talk about being allies.
4
Friend? Saudi led the oil embargos of the 1970's. We are complicit in their war crimes in Yemen. By attacking the Houthis, the Saudis and the US are supporting ISIS. There must we be some deep, complex rationale for our policy because it's beyond me. IMHO, it seems more likely that Iran will again become a modern country friendly to the West, hopefully with better leadership than the Shah.
7
I wonder how the news that Assad has been overwhelmingly reelected as President of Syria set with this group?
A "pledge to defend" this group is counter to anything that is rational and in the interest of the United States. It may protect Israel from Iran but our interests are not served.
Our interests in the area will forever more be tainted by our disastrous invasion of Iraq by the Bush cabal interests.
A "pledge to defend" this group is counter to anything that is rational and in the interest of the United States. It may protect Israel from Iran but our interests are not served.
Our interests in the area will forever more be tainted by our disastrous invasion of Iraq by the Bush cabal interests.
"Don't worry, we take your idle threats about selling assets seriously and we won't do anything to upset you...including investigating your role in the 9/11 attacks."
Contrast that to Assad, who crossed Obama's red lines a couple of times.
It should be obvious that after 7 years Obama's "strength through weakness" campaign isn't working.
Contrast that to Assad, who crossed Obama's red lines a couple of times.
It should be obvious that after 7 years Obama's "strength through weakness" campaign isn't working.
10
Actually it's Obama"s program of "weakness through weakness",
1
Obama reassuring Saudi that our US Men and Women will continue to fight for a bunch of cowards who would rather let Americans die. Remember Bush holding the Kings arm? Like Bush was subservient, Pretty disgusting. Time for Saudis' to step up, instead of hiding behind their oil.
6
He should tell them that next year, he'll be retired and they'll have to deal with Donald Trump. That should reassure them!
6
Seeing Obama over their, kissing their fat royal rings, makes me want to vote for Trump. And I'm a Democrat.
21
"Moment of opportunity" with fragile cease-fire agreement in Syria and Yemen etc."
I was under the impression that in the wake of the severe fighting in the last few days the cease-fire had all but broken down.
One would hope that Mr. Obama will bring up the case of Raif Badawi, Saudi blogger sentenced to 1,000 lashes and a prison.
I was under the impression that in the wake of the severe fighting in the last few days the cease-fire had all but broken down.
One would hope that Mr. Obama will bring up the case of Raif Badawi, Saudi blogger sentenced to 1,000 lashes and a prison.
6
What do you say behind closed doors to governmental leaders who are stuck in the 15th century?
6
Glad you're out of the 7th?
2
Reassures them of what?
That they are on their own against Iran? Or that he would draw another line in the Southern sands? This mans foreign policy...or lack there of...coupled with his abuse of power has created nothing but global havoc and made the world a far more dangerous place. He is our own Junior Varsity. Russians, Chinese, and Syrians all laugh at him. ISIS is NOT on the run, they are more dangerous worldwide than when he first created them by pulling out of Iraq. Afghanistan? We left them high and dry. Libya? There is a success story. North Korea? No problem.
When is the NYT going to do a story on South Sudan? The other complete Obama failure where terrorists keep the kidnapped girls?
When Obama aims to reassure, look out.
That they are on their own against Iran? Or that he would draw another line in the Southern sands? This mans foreign policy...or lack there of...coupled with his abuse of power has created nothing but global havoc and made the world a far more dangerous place. He is our own Junior Varsity. Russians, Chinese, and Syrians all laugh at him. ISIS is NOT on the run, they are more dangerous worldwide than when he first created them by pulling out of Iraq. Afghanistan? We left them high and dry. Libya? There is a success story. North Korea? No problem.
When is the NYT going to do a story on South Sudan? The other complete Obama failure where terrorists keep the kidnapped girls?
When Obama aims to reassure, look out.
8
Disclose the 28 pages Mr. President--the Saudis need us more than we need them.
Be on the right side of the US and of history.
Be on the right side of the US and of history.
11
reassures allies from what? it is usually us that attack countries in the ME.
2
it is long past the time when we should cut the Saudis off. we should only do business with decent countries that share our morals regarding the treatment of women, minorities, homosexuals, and children. that is what is hurting our country the most...and then you have a host of immoral companies like Apple using foreign slave labor. it has to stop...
8
The President should make an unconditional deal to defend the Gulf nations against any and all threats if they:
1) Stop treating women like slaves.
2) Stop all beheadings and amputations.
3) Throwout those horrible schoolbooks that teach their kids that Jews, Shia and infidels are apostates deserving of death.
4) Stop importing boys as sex slaves.
5) Let their people speak out.
6) Allow free and open elections.
7) Stop violating international standards of human rights.
8) Stop imprisoning their citizens for standing up to injustice and politically opposing the King.
9) Stop classifying any and all political opposition, no matter how slight, as terrorism resulting in long prison sentences and even execution.
10) Stop public beheadings for these trumped up political crimes.
11) Stop disappearing people.
12) Let women drive and wear what they want.
13) Stop funding, supporting and spreading their Sharia religion that is fueling terrorist ideology.
Other than that, these are a great bunch of guys any American would love to have over for dinner and send their sons and daughters into battle to defend.
1) Stop treating women like slaves.
2) Stop all beheadings and amputations.
3) Throwout those horrible schoolbooks that teach their kids that Jews, Shia and infidels are apostates deserving of death.
4) Stop importing boys as sex slaves.
5) Let their people speak out.
6) Allow free and open elections.
7) Stop violating international standards of human rights.
8) Stop imprisoning their citizens for standing up to injustice and politically opposing the King.
9) Stop classifying any and all political opposition, no matter how slight, as terrorism resulting in long prison sentences and even execution.
10) Stop public beheadings for these trumped up political crimes.
11) Stop disappearing people.
12) Let women drive and wear what they want.
13) Stop funding, supporting and spreading their Sharia religion that is fueling terrorist ideology.
Other than that, these are a great bunch of guys any American would love to have over for dinner and send their sons and daughters into battle to defend.
26
Perhaps it might also be better to add:
14: Stop funding and supporting terrorists(
15: Learn to defend yourself like a grown-up country (so we do't have to send our sons and daughters to die for your causes where are not always ours,
14: Stop funding and supporting terrorists(
15: Learn to defend yourself like a grown-up country (so we do't have to send our sons and daughters to die for your causes where are not always ours,
1
Perhaps the dictator-owner of Saudi Arabia should spend some time explaining to Americans how their Wahhabi brand of fundamentalist Islam isn't really the cause of radical jihadism in the Western world, and that we have nothing to fear from them.
If it's true, of course.
And he could go further and reassure us that his oil-rich nation will not expect American taxpayers to pay the cost of every intervention designed to keep his family's country safe from its enemies.
It would be interesting to know what this robed dictator is planning to add to the relationship with the United States to make it worth our while. That would be good to know, don't you think?
If it's true, of course.
And he could go further and reassure us that his oil-rich nation will not expect American taxpayers to pay the cost of every intervention designed to keep his family's country safe from its enemies.
It would be interesting to know what this robed dictator is planning to add to the relationship with the United States to make it worth our while. That would be good to know, don't you think?
13
And Obama should try to spare the lives of three Shia youths who
face imminent execution, probably by beheading, for participating in
nonviolent protests.
face imminent execution, probably by beheading, for participating in
nonviolent protests.
14
President Obama’s opening the sanctions' spigot has done more than "unnerve" leaders there. He has contributed to further destabilization in the Middle East.
Judging from all his actions in the Middle East, the president seems not to have grasped the significance of "balance" there. Without it, violence inevitably erupts. As he has now learned, there are other ways to disrupt balance beyond intervening in wars and removing despots. Providing a massive influx of funds to a major power can also upset that balance.
Judging from all his actions in the Middle East, the president seems not to have grasped the significance of "balance" there. Without it, violence inevitably erupts. As he has now learned, there are other ways to disrupt balance beyond intervening in wars and removing despots. Providing a massive influx of funds to a major power can also upset that balance.
7
Obama was greeted by one of the countries governor as he landed in the Saudi Capital - not the king as is customary. This is meant to embarrass the U.S president. These people make it feels as if we need them more than they need us. Why do we perpetuate this I wonder?
This makes me sick to my spleen.
This makes me sick to my spleen.
33
Over the years, Saudi Arabia and GCC countries remained true friends the US. But the US has proved to them, it has a different definition for friendship. It is a one that raises a red flag of alarm in the altruistic desert world. All they gotta say and gracefully, welcome Mr. President, and the people you represent, and you have been a good guest.
1
I think the desert world has a different definition for "altruistic."
2
Let's be honest: the only reason the US ever had any relationship with Saudi Arabia to begin with was because of oil, which to me isn't a good enough reason to endlessly maintain an unquestioned alliance.
Especially since, to be honest, other than oil they offer absolutely nothing in the way of being an ally, strategic or otherwise.
And do we really we need to rehash well-known facts to reiterate this fact?
Sure! Why not? Let's look back at our great relationship with the Saudis...
Fifteen of the nineteen 9/11 hijackers were citizens of Saudi Arabia.
Saudi Arabia's dominant faith is Wahhabism, an extreme form of Islam that has led to the rise of such figures as Osama bin Laden, the Taliban, and ISIS.
Saudi Arabia is among the world's top executioners.
As part of its horrible human rights record, Saudi Arabia freely and systematically discriminates against women and religious minorities.
Not to mention the Saudis close relationship with the Bush family, and we all know what the Bush family has their claws deep into...
Like I said, it all goes back to oil.
Let's just put it this way: Saudi Arabia is our "ally" in the same way that a drug dealer is your "friend."
Just sayin
Especially since, to be honest, other than oil they offer absolutely nothing in the way of being an ally, strategic or otherwise.
And do we really we need to rehash well-known facts to reiterate this fact?
Sure! Why not? Let's look back at our great relationship with the Saudis...
Fifteen of the nineteen 9/11 hijackers were citizens of Saudi Arabia.
Saudi Arabia's dominant faith is Wahhabism, an extreme form of Islam that has led to the rise of such figures as Osama bin Laden, the Taliban, and ISIS.
Saudi Arabia is among the world's top executioners.
As part of its horrible human rights record, Saudi Arabia freely and systematically discriminates against women and religious minorities.
Not to mention the Saudis close relationship with the Bush family, and we all know what the Bush family has their claws deep into...
Like I said, it all goes back to oil.
Let's just put it this way: Saudi Arabia is our "ally" in the same way that a drug dealer is your "friend."
Just sayin
39
Maybe Obama should spend more time assuring the Aemrican people that the Saudis who according to the Financial Times admitted in 2014 to have set up ISIS as the Sunni response to the Shia government in Iraq that the billions he sends the Saudis are coming from his own pocket! I'm sick of the US supporting these theocratic funders of terrorism. Obama should be ashamed of himself.
Disclose those 28 pages, Mr. President! Disclose them NOW. Support the 9/11 bill!
Disclose those 28 pages, Mr. President! Disclose them NOW. Support the 9/11 bill!
26
There is little benefit to be gained, geopolitically, from going after the Saudis, despite your frustration with them.
We should use our relationship with the Saudis to strategic advantage, not go after yet another Middle Eastern country. The Saudis are facing huge pressures now. The last thing we should do is anything that would contribute to their country's implosion.
Have we not learned anything about what happens when Middle Eastern countries fall apart?
We should use our relationship with the Saudis to strategic advantage, not go after yet another Middle Eastern country. The Saudis are facing huge pressures now. The last thing we should do is anything that would contribute to their country's implosion.
Have we not learned anything about what happens when Middle Eastern countries fall apart?
9
"billions he sends Saudis"
You are wrong on that. Saudis send billions here. They are reported
to be holding $750 billion in US Government securities, financing
our deficit.
You are wrong on that. Saudis send billions here. They are reported
to be holding $750 billion in US Government securities, financing
our deficit.
4
It really is folly to wage an oil price war when CO2 emission needs to be curtailed globally.
2
The Saudis are almost certainly culpable, and at the very highest levels, for the thousands of American lives lost on 9/11.
They're the wellspring of all global Sunni terrorism and proponents and exporters of a version of Islam that is indistinguishable from a Death Cult.