You need to study statistics and what statistically significant difference means. It means when a pool is looked as a whole, there is another factor that may cause the difference. In this case, since “random acts of love” cannot explain why asian female – white couples far outnumber asian male – white couples, what else explains this race sex difference than . . . racism. As a white male, you try to deny racism by saying it is the asian female’s “choice”. But big data shows that “choice” is informed by a racial preference: the most insidious form of racism, racism against her own kind. In effect, white males are benefiting from a form of affirmative action by asian females. Ironic, isn’t it, since whites complain of affirmative action as “politically correct”, that most feeble response whenever minorities push back against racism.
2
You need to study cause effect relationships in statistics. Apparently you missed that part of the course because your cause effect conclusion is utter nonsense.
Your textbook probably covered confounding variables. In considerable detail.
Your textbook probably covered confounding variables. In considerable detail.
as an Asian who came to the US with my family and benefitted from public education and the opportunities of this country, let me bring up one little point. based on what im reading, it seems a foregone conclusion that we are victims of racism and whites are generally awful to all non whites, but id like to remind u all that no one dragged us here and the vast majority of us Asians came here gleefully despite the mistreatment of native americans and blacks in this country. whatever their faults, whites are far more ethical and less corrupt than whatever awful country we came from. the proof is that we are here.
They ("whites") no more or less generous than any other race. The difference is the wealth of this country. It's pretty easy to be generous when all of your basic needs are met (and then some).
Oh, and by the way, since you mentioned it....you cannot just brush aside the genocide of native Americans, enslavement of African Americans, or many of the anti-Asian policies thru the first half of the 20th century.
Oh, and by the way, since you mentioned it....you cannot just brush aside the genocide of native Americans, enslavement of African Americans, or many of the anti-Asian policies thru the first half of the 20th century.
4
Your wife's experience says to me that some blacks are horribly racist and can commit cruel acts of hate. Whites, obviously, do not have a monopoly on racism. There is nothing in what I said that would suggest otherwise. My point is that these "black" kids saw your wife as "Asian" and that alone made her subject to harassment and assault. Unfortunately in the U.S., this racialized violence happens everyday. The first step to dealing with this is to acknowledge that race IS a powerful organizing factor and that it isn't social fiction that racial minorities use whenever it's convenient to them. Your wife had no ability to hide or mask her Asianness. I don't think you as a white male need to find some convoluted way to feel ultimately responsible for what happened to your wife. But as a spouse of a victim of racialized violence, I hope you can contribute in some way to raise the level of consciousness in anti-Asian violence (whoever the perpetrator) and we can ensure our racial diversity is an asset rather than a problem.
As an Asian American, I agree that we do face blatant racism everyday, and it needs to change. However, in the video someone said as they were growing up they thought being American meant being white. Living in America and being American does not always equate to being white. I think America represents a diverse community and to be American is to be diverse. I have personally experienced racism, and it is truly heartbreaking to see that people can be so close-minded, and can treat people as if they are better just by the tone of their skin. Although racism is still prevalent to this day, I think that barriers between Asian Americans shouldn’t try to be so actively dissolved; I think they should be embraced, without racism. Embracing our differences is what makes us American, it is what makes us unique. Why fight to “blend in” with Americans when we are out own entity. It is not Asian Americans who need to try harder to be American, it’s the racist culture that needs to accept the diversity that is inevitable.
America should not be identified solely with white people, because it is anything but that. Clearly many Americans still exhibit racism, and in order for this to change there must be a shift in the paradigm of what it means to be American. There should not only be a shift in the minds of people who exhibit racism but people who are minorities as well. Culture should be embraced and diversity should be able to flourish, because that is what being American is all about.
America should not be identified solely with white people, because it is anything but that. Clearly many Americans still exhibit racism, and in order for this to change there must be a shift in the paradigm of what it means to be American. There should not only be a shift in the minds of people who exhibit racism but people who are minorities as well. Culture should be embraced and diversity should be able to flourish, because that is what being American is all about.
2
I am Asian and I actually think that being called a "model minority" is a good thing - it says everyone expects better things from us - isn't that we expect from our kids? To do better than everyone else? Doesn't mean that we can't do something else, but pressure is good - as they say, it makes a Diamond out of coal
What every country needs are more Engineers, Accountants, Programmers, Dreamers and Entrepreneurs and less Jordans, Brad Pitts, Bradys - it is the former that make a country rich
What every country needs are more Engineers, Accountants, Programmers, Dreamers and Entrepreneurs and less Jordans, Brad Pitts, Bradys - it is the former that make a country rich
1
I grew up in a community in the mid-west with a lot of Swedish immigrants. My father's family spoke Swedish at home until their kids learned English in school. Believe it or not, there was actually anti Swede prejudice. I remember some of my teachers making jokes about "dumb swedes". They would take "dumb polish" jokes and change "polish" to "swede". A couple of my teachers thought this was really funny and would make dumb swede jokes in class almost every day. Social life was divided by religion. The different ethnic groups went to different churches. I dated a catholic guy in high school and both my parents and his thought they were being very liberal to allow that. There used to be a lot of prejudice against Italian, Irish, and German immigrants also.
4
I encourage the Times to stop using the word "race," which is a cultural contruct. As anthropologists have demonstrated (see http://www.understandingrace.org/about/response.html ) and the Times has noted (8/20/14:http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/21/opinion/charles-blow-constructing-a-co... ) race is about culture not biology. E.g., Ta-Nehesi Coates has powerfully challenged the existence of invention of "whiteness." So while using "race" will surely die hard, how about the NYT having "A Conversation about Ethnicity or Ethnic Origin"?
Thus, I'm a European-American--not white or Caucasian.
Thus, I'm a European-American--not white or Caucasian.
1
Race is only a cultural construct when it is confused with color, ethnicity, faith, national origin, socioeconomics and politics. There is an evolutionary biological DNA genetic reality of race as in the one human race species that evolved dusky, furless and waking upright in East Africa 180-200, 000 years ago. What we call race as in color is the result of chronological ecological isolation over time among isolated populations responding to the need to produce Vitamin D and protect genes from damaging solar radiation. Anthropology outside of the physical and biological is not a science.
I am part white European English American, part black African and part brown Native American which computes into all black in America. Europe and America are geography. You are as white and Caucasian as Castro, Cruz, and Rubio.
And Alberto Fujimori and his daughter Keiko are as Asian Japanese Peruvian Hispanic Latino American as they are any thing else.
I am part white European English American, part black African and part brown Native American which computes into all black in America. Europe and America are geography. You are as white and Caucasian as Castro, Cruz, and Rubio.
And Alberto Fujimori and his daughter Keiko are as Asian Japanese Peruvian Hispanic Latino American as they are any thing else.
I agree with Justin that this is an ethnic bias issue and not a race issue, and it is not just an hyphenated American issue, but part of the nature of human beings, right or wrong. I grew up in a neighborhood in Philadelphia, where on one corner of Allegheny Ave., there were 4 churches: one for the Irish, the Polish, the Germans and the Italians. All were Catholic, and all patrons had their biases towards the others.
This ethnic bias is not unique to Americans, it is worldwide. It exists today in the Middle East, Africa, Southeast Europe, and Asia.
Why do we Americans have to continually beat ourselves up like this was a solely American phenomenology!?
This ethnic bias is not unique to Americans, it is worldwide. It exists today in the Middle East, Africa, Southeast Europe, and Asia.
Why do we Americans have to continually beat ourselves up like this was a solely American phenomenology!?
As a young African American male coming of age during the early-mid 1970's,personal statements of fashion,flair,attitude and life partner,were extremely en vogue.Super bad dudes like John Shaft,Superfly,Walt 'Clyde Frazier,Sly Stone and Billy Dee Williams,vis a' vis his superb performance with Diana Ross in 'Lady Sings the Blues,was just the epitome of class and style.When I discovered he was married to Japanese female,who previously was married to jazz great Wayne Shorter,I thought that is the 'statement,that truly 'cool dudes personify.I figured Miles was probably married to an Asian female also.Fortunately on two trips to Hong Kong and Taiwan at the end of the decade,while serving in the USN,I 'experienced the whole Asian milieu.Exotic is the usual description of the that atmosphere and that is an adequate assessment,though barely.In the mid1960's I has attented primary school in the Bay Area,with many asian kids,though the mere proximity never developed into real friendships.By and large Asian Americans have been as mysterious to me as I to them.Of course the Hollywood stardom of Bruce Lee mesmerized all Americans,particularly African Americans.The Asian focus on education is an ideal all Americans should embrace,but not just for credentialled corporate acknowledgement.Education in and of it'self is a wonderful life motivator...Now back to 'Enter the Dragon
1
two whole days of interviews! really?
1
The habit of making fun of other people especially because of their appearance, body colour, the clothes they wear and the way they speak is causing rather unnecessary tension in the society. There are numerous bigger problems, which need immediate attention and solutions but unfortunately get no attention because of the trivial issues like race.
Racism is not the sole property of Americans but very much deep rooted in India and other countries even. As such this problem simply can't be solved unless and until people's mindset changes.
Racism is not the sole property of Americans but very much deep rooted in India and other countries even. As such this problem simply can't be solved unless and until people's mindset changes.
1
Thank you for this insightful conversation on Asian-Americans. We have got to learn from one another and promote/fight for justice for all. When we treat some of us unjustly, we all suffer and diminish ourselfves.
2
The comments here really make the point even more eloquently than the video. I count at least a half dozen comments remarking how racist Asian countries and Asian cultures are.
Nevermind that many Asian-Americans were born, raised, and educated in the US, and some have had family in the US for three, four, five, or even more generations. They are still viewed as inherently foreign. Why else would these commentators yammer on about how racist Japanese, Korean, or Chinese society are, when this article addresses the experiences of Asian-AMERICANS?
It doesn't matter how long you've been here. If mainstream America thinks you look foreign, you will always be foreign.
Nevermind that many Asian-Americans were born, raised, and educated in the US, and some have had family in the US for three, four, five, or even more generations. They are still viewed as inherently foreign. Why else would these commentators yammer on about how racist Japanese, Korean, or Chinese society are, when this article addresses the experiences of Asian-AMERICANS?
It doesn't matter how long you've been here. If mainstream America thinks you look foreign, you will always be foreign.
5
Americans have become obsessed, even besotted with race, racial relationships and rooting out the last vestige of racism in the last Neanderthal in the deepest recesses of the country.
It's often said, 'we need a national conversation on race," to improve relationships. On the contrary, we need to stop obsessing over every real, imagined, unintentional or spurious slight.
It's time to stop divining the racism in a ham sandwich. Or under every rock. Watch this space: I am saying we are all being overly hypersensitive about this. I fully expect that one of the first responses will be from someone calling me a racist for that opinion.
Which will be the best confirmation of my point.
Race relationships in America are better than they have ever been. That is an incontrovertible truth. The problem is that today's over-exaggerated bar for what "racism" consists of has been raised so high that it's humanly impossible to get over it.
Enough of these conversations. Lighten up everyone. And no, to any race-baiter who wants to jump on that, that's not a "micro-aggression" about skin tone.
It's often said, 'we need a national conversation on race," to improve relationships. On the contrary, we need to stop obsessing over every real, imagined, unintentional or spurious slight.
It's time to stop divining the racism in a ham sandwich. Or under every rock. Watch this space: I am saying we are all being overly hypersensitive about this. I fully expect that one of the first responses will be from someone calling me a racist for that opinion.
Which will be the best confirmation of my point.
Race relationships in America are better than they have ever been. That is an incontrovertible truth. The problem is that today's over-exaggerated bar for what "racism" consists of has been raised so high that it's humanly impossible to get over it.
Enough of these conversations. Lighten up everyone. And no, to any race-baiter who wants to jump on that, that's not a "micro-aggression" about skin tone.
10
Dryland Sailor has nailed it. The media, as seen here, needs to "provoke" and stimulate this issue. Racism is much less of a problem than 50 years ago & less of a problem in out multi-cultural country than the world's relatively homogenous cultures. We have come closer to our E pluribus unum motto than most societies. However, like the poor, it will always be with us. The recent administration has persisted in creating more adversity by race "baiting" and trying to instigate class warfare. And of course, this fits with news narrative of if "it bleeds (.or has a racial angle) , it leads".
I agree with the last statement, the problem is the system. I think this other article has the best solution for all humans of every race: https://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/wp20130601/world-without-pr...
Will Americans ever get to the level of seeing their fellow Americans as simply Americans rather than hyphenated Americans? Until we the people elevate ourselves and each other to a more inclusive level, I fear that our nation will never attain the level of greatness that we aspire to. We like to think that we are better than other nations. It is time we live up to the ideals expressed in our Constitution and in our Declaration Of Independence.
3
Again, from the comments, we keep seeing people use the wrong terms. Racism, as defined by the dictionary via Merriam Webster's Full Definition of RACISM
1: a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race
2: racial prejudice or discrimination
Oxford defines it as:
"Prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one’s own race is superior"
"The belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races."
This is why the commentators in the video are saying that the model minority stereotypes are harmful because they are just broad-brush characterizations that are not necessarily true. Ever meet an Asian kid that had learning disabilities? Just read about how the model minority myth hurts this vulnerable population: http://www.asianfortunenews.com/2014/09/asian-american-youth-with-specia...
1: a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race
2: racial prejudice or discrimination
Oxford defines it as:
"Prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one’s own race is superior"
"The belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races."
This is why the commentators in the video are saying that the model minority stereotypes are harmful because they are just broad-brush characterizations that are not necessarily true. Ever meet an Asian kid that had learning disabilities? Just read about how the model minority myth hurts this vulnerable population: http://www.asianfortunenews.com/2014/09/asian-american-youth-with-specia...
1
How does one say something positive, supportive, and respectful about Asian-Americans (and mean it), without coming off sounding [gratuitously] politically correct on the one hand, and "sone of my best friends are..."on the other?
2
I respect and admire my Korean-American neighbors. Intact two parent families, academic achievers, low violent crime rate, wonderful neighbors.
3
Asians are the "other" I'm most comfortable living amongst.
3
While well-meaning and definitely moving at times, this article solidifies the NYT's middle-brow take on the country's swirling, evolving racial persona. I find it ironic and amusing, though also editorially bemusing because it's so obvious, that the Times uses as the video cover photo (whatever that is called) one of the Asian women who would be most attractive to a white, upper-income, especially-male, demographic.
The problem with these video soliloquies is that they in isolation miss a more universal truth: almost *everyone* goes through pain coming up in this heterogenuous nation. The number of young people who are white, tall, athletic, attractive, smart, charismatic, Christian who never face the anguish of discrimination, bigotry, violence, or just the challenges of coming of age -- such a group is becoming ever vanishingly small. The Asian-American reality is a distinct American story that only they should tell. Perhaps, though, there is a better approach than via this predictable hand-wringing Times style.
The problem with these video soliloquies is that they in isolation miss a more universal truth: almost *everyone* goes through pain coming up in this heterogenuous nation. The number of young people who are white, tall, athletic, attractive, smart, charismatic, Christian who never face the anguish of discrimination, bigotry, violence, or just the challenges of coming of age -- such a group is becoming ever vanishingly small. The Asian-American reality is a distinct American story that only they should tell. Perhaps, though, there is a better approach than via this predictable hand-wringing Times style.
6
Asians, like Jews are supposed to be self deprecating and humble due to being overly successful. Part of this means putting up with the abuse of less successful minorities. Like Jews, the vast majority of racism and violence towards Asians in the past 50 years has come from black leftists. The only Asians and Jews who are given a voice on the left and in the media are those that either don't address it or who are apologists for it. The left will tolerate no hostility towards blacks, Muslims or illegal immigrants but gives a free pass to the anti-Asian and anti-Jewish racism on the left, including violence. This is despicable and I will loudly praise the day when prominent Asians and Jews call out this enormous elephant in the room.
7
There is a dark side to being a member of the "model minority" such as being shoehorned into careers that one is not suited to, being characterized as a impotent dork or submissive sex toy, etc. Not being good at math or martial arts is a huge liability as an Asian American. In addition, if Asians have it so good, why do so many Asian Americans kill themselves? I also think white people have a serious complex with Asians because they spent the entire 20th century killing Asians (Japanese, Chinese, Koreans, Vietnamese). To say we are all rich and work at google does not advance the dialog of how Asians are still victims of discrimination. The lack of pan-Asianism is also a bummer but they say Asians are like a pan of sand...they look cohesive in a pile but when shaken up its every yellow dude for himself/herself.
3
The dangers of the "model minority myth" is that it consistently devalues the achievements of Asian Americans in order exonerate the under performance of other racial minorities. To attribute the success of Asian Americans purely on skilled immigration would paint a dishonest picture of the diverse experiences each Asian group faced in getting to the United States and also overlooks the hardships that were also unique to each group. Not all of them were college educated professionals on H1-B visas, some were refugees from wars, others entered here illegally, smuggled into the country, and yet they have manged to thrive. As a first generation Latino immigrant, I have had nothing but admiration for the Asian Americans I have met and I often hope that the Latino community in the United States can one day achieve the same level of success Asians have had. That is not to say that racism isn't a problem and that there are no barriers holding racial minorities from achieving their full potential, but America is still one of the few examples in the world of a successful multi ethnic nation that is largely meritocratic. Instead of tearing down the house because of a leaky pipe, we should see that while our system isn't perfect, it has gotten us where we are now and that it can improve for the better.
4
The US is my adoptive country - I'm from Brazil where all Asians are called Japanese and no one seems to mind it. l'm Nordic looking, tall, green-eyed and blonde, 90% European and 10% American Indian, the result of a marriages between races that tool place almost 500 years ago. OK. Fine. Now I ask, how would I be described if I were living in China, Japan, or any other Asian country? (White devil?) How would I be treated? I'm sure I would be "the other" as I'm "the other" in the US where I've lived for 40 years -- I've an accent, and it's not from Brooklyn. The thing is, I chose to live here, and if I'm asked "where are you from?" I certainly don't mind it. (It's always amusing for me, though, to see the reaction of "Americans" when I return the question.) As for Asians, I see successful ones, but I see many struggling ones, too. Therefore, I don't generalize, and it applies to all races.
4
I urge all to study the history of Immigration. There is a model. All models are false; however, some are useful. In this model, the immigrant often arrives only with the intention to work and take the economic opportunities, with a desire to return; the immigrant rarely learns English and often stays in ethnic enclaves. Their children speak English in public and the old language at home. The 2nd generation - they're almost totally "Americans"
And *THAT* is exactly what forms the basis of what makes America Great. Her Greatness lies in the fact that it doesn't matter who you were or where you came from you can become a full American (by the intentional choice of a just-arrived immigrant or passively as a 2nd generation descendant of an immigrant) and you can achieve greatness in America based on what you can do.
A "cohesive national unity" some (mistakenly) long for is a perpetual process - there is no need to rush it. Once, the Irish and Italians were "other" - alien - rejected - "Irish need not apply" - over time, most groups acquire "normal-ness" within a few generations of the immigration wave.
I urge you and all to be proud that America (eventually) celebrates all comers, and to increase your tolerance and acceptance for "other-ness" not as a rejection of what you are today but as an enrichment of what we all will be (together) one day.
That is what truly makes America Great. And rejecting "otherness" because of ignorance is part of what holds her back.
And *THAT* is exactly what forms the basis of what makes America Great. Her Greatness lies in the fact that it doesn't matter who you were or where you came from you can become a full American (by the intentional choice of a just-arrived immigrant or passively as a 2nd generation descendant of an immigrant) and you can achieve greatness in America based on what you can do.
A "cohesive national unity" some (mistakenly) long for is a perpetual process - there is no need to rush it. Once, the Irish and Italians were "other" - alien - rejected - "Irish need not apply" - over time, most groups acquire "normal-ness" within a few generations of the immigration wave.
I urge you and all to be proud that America (eventually) celebrates all comers, and to increase your tolerance and acceptance for "other-ness" not as a rejection of what you are today but as an enrichment of what we all will be (together) one day.
That is what truly makes America Great. And rejecting "otherness" because of ignorance is part of what holds her back.
There are two things going on here (and always and everywhere) that eventually become intertwined - How a person sees themselves (and self-identifies) and how the external world reacts to those individuals and projects onto them. A person who exhibits highly identifiable physical characteristics could internally make a choice or a decision to identify themselves and define their identity as "American" (and maybe only American, essentially allowing the identity of their ancestors to fade) but others can and will express their opinion (through epithets and commentary) and that will very likely force a conflict. That conflict is painful and ugly.
When others consistently classify you into a category, sometimes that pushes people to embrace that category knowing they can never change it. Others choose to go the way of Clarence Thomas - to work hard to purchase false acceptance by changing everything else possible.
Even "successful" or "model" minorities feel the sting of this rejection because, well, in the end, they're human, and when you pierce them, they bleed just like humans do.
When others consistently classify you into a category, sometimes that pushes people to embrace that category knowing they can never change it. Others choose to go the way of Clarence Thomas - to work hard to purchase false acceptance by changing everything else possible.
Even "successful" or "model" minorities feel the sting of this rejection because, well, in the end, they're human, and when you pierce them, they bleed just like humans do.
4
I don't think it's a big deal - you can always refuse to be stereotyped and objectified since you're the only one truly capable of judging others and when you do so you judge yourself. So don't judge other people, but rather individual actions. Even geniuses do stupid things and stupid people do genius-like things. No matter what, to excel you need to go above and beyond what is necessary and the only race you (should) have is with yourself, not with anyone else.
I consider myself a part of the universe, and my "allegiances", as it were, are either incredibly local or incredibly cosmic/universal. I'm more a human being or living organism than the culture or ethnicity I came from (and race is a social construct). I refuse to be stereotyped or categorised, and it's only if you give yourself in to the objectification that it succeeds. See Sartre's works on this matter.
--Ram
http://ram.org
http://compbio.org
I consider myself a part of the universe, and my "allegiances", as it were, are either incredibly local or incredibly cosmic/universal. I'm more a human being or living organism than the culture or ethnicity I came from (and race is a social construct). I refuse to be stereotyped or categorised, and it's only if you give yourself in to the objectification that it succeeds. See Sartre's works on this matter.
--Ram
http://ram.org
http://compbio.org
2
Everyone is Racist thats how we Humans are noo ne will be able to change that you will only end up making it worse for everyone.
A majority of Asian families suffer from the "two parent privilege " that afflicts many white children. This unfortunate affliction can lead to success in school and college.
6
The vast majority of racism and violence directed towards Asians has been coming from blacks. This is true since the 1980's. It's amazing how the targeting of Asian businesses by racist mobs from the LA riots in the 90's to Baltimore and Ferguson today are wiped out of history or spoken about in a way that omits they were anti-Asian hate crimes.
5
Hasn't anyone seen the Ancestry.com commercials? Most Americans, regardless of appearance, have a very mixed lineage. Unless you or your parents immigrated your ancestors are likely from continents all over the globe! And the amalgamation is increasing! Hopefully we will soon move beyond the invented concept of race and look at each others characters! We are all Americans!
2
I am white and have felt discrimination, as a teenager I asked a Spanish girl out to the 9th grade prom. Her father and mother said can't you find a Spanish boy. We did not go to the prom.
Racism is not good, for the most part I think it is over blow, most people do not care what race you are from. I have had black, Spanish male and female bosses who really cares just want a good job and take care of the family. politicians and the government slice and dice the population and create issues of race.
Racism is not good, for the most part I think it is over blow, most people do not care what race you are from. I have had black, Spanish male and female bosses who really cares just want a good job and take care of the family. politicians and the government slice and dice the population and create issues of race.
1
Again, from the comments, we keep seeing people use the wrong terms.
Racism, as defined by the dictionary via Merriam Webster's Full Definition of RACISM
1: a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race
2: racial prejudice or discrimination
Racism, as defined by the dictionary via Merriam Webster's Full Definition of RACISM
1: a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race
2: racial prejudice or discrimination
Asians have a strong sense of family and community which immigrant America has always allowed. We have only to look to World War II to see how our society segregated and plundered a generation for the color of their skin and their Japanese name. Did discrimination end with the war? With the election of a black president? The model minority myth lives on. The color ladder is real.
2
Piece about Asian stereotypes and the lead photo is an Asian stereotype!
3
The English class system is still very strong throughout American society. Those of us who are neither lords or ladies and certainly not WASP are put down as just part of the competition to "the real people".
1
Growing up on the west coast of the USA I feel fortunate to have my life enriched by the art and experience of many Asian people. For a kid alone in the world at an early age and in need of a place to fit, a kindly martial arts master proved to be a life changing gift.
Oh, I've run into some jerks that were quite bigoted, especially while on business in Shanghai and Manilla and Beijing. In America the bigotry was more subtle and most of the time I was able to shrug it off. There were a few times when I found myself at the wrong end of a hate crime. As it turns out there are some bigoted Asian American men who thought if they did something like breaking my arm or knocking me out with a stick it would prove that Kung Fu was only for Chinese people. Fortunately, things didn't work out in their favor.
I guess my perspective is that racism and bigotry are a universal human weakness. I do not mean to minimize your suffering. It will happen, but try not to let it ruin your life. When it does happen you must stand up to it. It might be scary but it is the right thing to do.
Oh, I've run into some jerks that were quite bigoted, especially while on business in Shanghai and Manilla and Beijing. In America the bigotry was more subtle and most of the time I was able to shrug it off. There were a few times when I found myself at the wrong end of a hate crime. As it turns out there are some bigoted Asian American men who thought if they did something like breaking my arm or knocking me out with a stick it would prove that Kung Fu was only for Chinese people. Fortunately, things didn't work out in their favor.
I guess my perspective is that racism and bigotry are a universal human weakness. I do not mean to minimize your suffering. It will happen, but try not to let it ruin your life. When it does happen you must stand up to it. It might be scary but it is the right thing to do.
Wow, Did the author cherry pick this group, or is it that the american young has become so emotionally weak and ignorant? Ignorant, in that their greivances while legitimate for sure, are so small and meaningless if compared to the present world, or past 5000 year human history. The USA by far is MOST fair nation IN THE WORLD, if one takes Race, Color, Gender, Class, Reglious, Ethnic, Caste, Tribe, Sect, etc. There is NO nation that is perfect. Further, it is interesting to note the Motherland of many of these Asians like Japan, Korea, China, Vietnam are at the top of the world in Racist. Less than a few percent are of any race than that of the majority. What is that all about? India, with its Caste system, Religious strife, and gender inequality is no better. Bottomline, yes the USA has it problems, but I find it very sad, to hear these comments. Alittle travel or real world experience might open some eyes
3
Good piece and video. Very enlightnening to hear the stories from different groups. I especially like the comment about labels. It's like the "Latinos", another political label. Except that I don't believe these labels give us any power at all. LIke the piece says, it is a way to pit us against each other. Unification is the key across races.
As a Chinese national, I'm much more pessimistic. While I admit that America suppresses racism quite hard (the problem is much worse elsewhere, in Europe and Russia. Even Chinese ourselves are racist sometimes), I don't see any possibility for Asians to merge into the American society. Invisible barriers are hard to breach. African Americans have gone so far, through decades of struggle, only to turn around and discriminate Asians (see Oscar). Somehow Asian Americans find themselves at the bottom of the society: behind white, African and even Latino Americans, who know how to express their voice. American born Chinese r the most miserable of all: no community will ever recognize them. Some time ago I saw an ABC's birthday party, on which ALL guests were Asian. You know what I mean. Well enough. I'll definitely go back to serve my own country (corrupted and problematic as it is) to prevent my children from this destiny, and to protect legacies of our great ancestors. Surprise me, America, if you don't agree.
I've been to China about 60 times and have worked for a Chinese company. Some foreigners may be fooled by the mask of courtesy that they show to foreign visitors. But stay there a while and you will see that mask come off. What lies underneath it you won't like. In my view, Shanghai and Beijing are about where the United States was in the 1920s with respect to bigotry and racism. Racism is systemic, accepted and considered impolite to challenge or even question. Discrimination in employment is not even questioned. It is just part of the way things are.
Not so in Hong Kong. Bigotry exists to be sure, but as a foreigner it does not shut you down. In Taiwan, you can do business, and they still use some of the old Confucian respect and hospitality that seems to have been forgotten elsewhere. I respect that.
Not so in Hong Kong. Bigotry exists to be sure, but as a foreigner it does not shut you down. In Taiwan, you can do business, and they still use some of the old Confucian respect and hospitality that seems to have been forgotten elsewhere. I respect that.
It cannot go unnoticed either that one statement in this video displays a more subtle form of racism :
"Americans" are the white Americans and the "real Americans are the white Americans"......
Does this suggest that all white Americans are racist?
To some, probably and
Sadly society still wants to use labels and some even "self label" ......So will racism ever change?
"Americans" are the white Americans and the "real Americans are the white Americans"......
Does this suggest that all white Americans are racist?
To some, probably and
Sadly society still wants to use labels and some even "self label" ......So will racism ever change?
In southern India, a boy with a relatively light skin color would be mocked as a 'white crow' by some of the other school boys. and if his eyes were greenish he would be called 'cat eyes'. In the rural areas in North India, they do not like urbanites speaking English(some stranger would comment that the Brits left the country long ago, implying that Hindi must be spoken). There was a Kannada agitation in Karnataka in the '80s. Local students would threaten that the 'outsiders' should either speak their language(Kannada) or get out. There are quotas for certain groups, disadvantaged, privileged or otherwise. that keep many good students out of colleges of their choice.
After our family migrated from India to the US in the '80s, the schoolkids in America made fun of my sister, who was then in her low teens, because of her 'funny sounding name'. She didn't want to be called by her full name after that.
Indians living in America face a different challenge today-of rising to the oval office, the supreme court, congress and becoming a CEO.
After our family migrated from India to the US in the '80s, the schoolkids in America made fun of my sister, who was then in her low teens, because of her 'funny sounding name'. She didn't want to be called by her full name after that.
Indians living in America face a different challenge today-of rising to the oval office, the supreme court, congress and becoming a CEO.
2
There was a gentleman who credited the stereotype of Asian Americans based on the recent immigration which brought in many educated Asians. Such naive comments truly indicates a lack of knowledge of the history of the Asian migration into the USA. What about the Chinese workers that helped build the Trans-american railroad or the Japanese field workers that worked in the fields of Hawaii and California? None of them had college educations but their children, grand children became Doctor, lawyers, Senators, Congressmen, Engineers, Professors, etc. This is where the basis of the stereo type came from not the recent immigrants.
As a white guy the only time I came close to understanding what racial discrimination felt like was when I spent 3 years working in Hong Kong. I didn't dare tell anyone that I was not only white but gay as well. The Han Chinese are quite racist.
6
Asian-Americans who feel they are discriminated against because of affirmative action policies would do well to consider that they form part of the people of this nation and part of the history of this people—the good, bad, and the ugly. Affirmative action, flawed as it is, is an attempt to rectify the injustices of that history. We are one people, for better or worse, and those (Asian or otherwise) who want only the good, or only want what advances their own personal business, have no business here.
There is a clear implication in most of these interviews that the "Americans" who exhibit racist behavior and attitudes towards Asian-Americans are all white Americans. When my wife arrived in America from Asia, one of her fist experiences was being harassed on the sidewalk by a group of African-American teens, who jeered at her "ching-chang-ching-chang-chang!" Welcome to America...in every sense.
1
Sounds like teenagers being silly and ridiculous, as teenagers tend to be from time to time. But I would say that's progress. My ancestor who lived in the South was jeered, and then strung up on a tree and burned alive.
1
Another day, another NYTimes' piece obsessing about race. Good, God, there are too many critical national and international stories getting ignored by the NYTimes because of its editorial board's gratuitous fixation with race.
After being bludgeoned over the head about race on a daily basis by the NYTimes, I'm illogically starting to think I'm a racist despite having many black friends and doing social work in black communities. Like most US universities, the NYTimes has obviously hired an entire staff devoted to racial issues. And like US universities, the NYTimes is perpetuating the Left's mass hysteria about race.
After being bludgeoned over the head about race on a daily basis by the NYTimes, I'm illogically starting to think I'm a racist despite having many black friends and doing social work in black communities. Like most US universities, the NYTimes has obviously hired an entire staff devoted to racial issues. And like US universities, the NYTimes is perpetuating the Left's mass hysteria about race.
5
If you use the term "The Left" in a comment talking about how free of prejudice you are yet how tired you are of seeing articles about race, I'm sorry, I'm going to think you lean toward racist. I don't care if you have "many black friends" and have done "social work in black communities". I've learned to easily recognize the signs of people who hold racist-leaning views, though they would deny it to their dying day.
This was a very enlightening video for me and I liked hearing the perspectives of the speakers. I agree with the person who said the white privilege is strong in the comments section. Too many white people, and some older Asian and Asian-American people, try to pit Asian-Americans against black people so white people can "stay on top". But if Asian-Americans were "taking" the white people's children's college spots at a higher percentage -as they probably should be at many colleges based on test scores - white people would be the first to turn on Asian-Americans. It already often happens every year during this time with posters on websites like College Confidential. Very sad but not at all shocking to me.
This was a very enlightening video for me and I liked hearing the perspectives of the speakers. I agree with the person who said the white privilege is strong in the comments section. Too many white people, and some older Asian and Asian-American people, try to pit Asian-Americans against black people so white people can "stay on top". But if Asian-Americans were "taking" the white people's children's college spots at a higher percentage -as they probably should be at many colleges based on test scores - white people would be the first to turn on Asian-Americans. It already often happens every year during this time with posters on websites like College Confidential. Very sad but not at all shocking to me.
4
It'd be nice if you didn't find Asians to fill your echo chamber assertions about the model minority "myth". The worst kind of liberalism tends to sacrifice Asians at the altar of political correctness to assert that there are no cultural differences between ethnic groups and that somehow, Asian success is a myth to be debunked because it's used to shame other minorities.
I am Asian and the Asians in your video don't speak for me.
I am Asian and the Asians in your video don't speak for me.
3
I work at a plant where a Latino worker was harassed by a white worker. He complained to HR, they intervened and the harassment stopped, although the Latino man was unable to get over it and eventually quit. His replacement is Vietnamese and he too was harassed by the same white guy, but he feared going to management about, chose to complain about it to a coworker and simply put up with the abuse. As an officer in the union, I went to HR as soon as I found out about it and got them to intervene, stopping the harassment. I'd like to see the white guy fired but it's not up to me.
My point in bringing this up is that the Vietnamese man feared for his job, although he was being treated badly and had every right to complain. I'm glad I intervened, but sad that I had to. I really thought we had come a lot farther than we have.
My point in bringing this up is that the Vietnamese man feared for his job, although he was being treated badly and had every right to complain. I'm glad I intervened, but sad that I had to. I really thought we had come a lot farther than we have.
4
I identify as Asian-American and think that this video was refreshing to see: it contrasts countless social identity-related stories I’ve read that exclude the voices and nuanced data of the Asian-American community.
Ironically, most commenters on this op-ed are perpetuating the problem that they’re trying to debunk. By making comments such as “racism against Asian-Americans isn’t a real problem”, you are showing that racism against Asian-Americans is indeed a reality by trying to one-up our voices and minimizing our real, lived experiences, which are portrayed right in front of you.
The Asian-American identity is in flux, and non Asian-Americans need to respect that, especially if they’re attempting to judge a lived reality that isn’t theirs to begin with. We have a stake in this conversation about race, privilege, and justice.
Again, the Asian-American identity is in flux: we are not black, and we are not white. We are privileged in some ways and severely oppressed in others. We’re recipients of white privilege often without knowing that this does damage other communities of color that we need to support and stand with.
Ironically, most commenters on this op-ed are perpetuating the problem that they’re trying to debunk. By making comments such as “racism against Asian-Americans isn’t a real problem”, you are showing that racism against Asian-Americans is indeed a reality by trying to one-up our voices and minimizing our real, lived experiences, which are portrayed right in front of you.
The Asian-American identity is in flux, and non Asian-Americans need to respect that, especially if they’re attempting to judge a lived reality that isn’t theirs to begin with. We have a stake in this conversation about race, privilege, and justice.
Again, the Asian-American identity is in flux: we are not black, and we are not white. We are privileged in some ways and severely oppressed in others. We’re recipients of white privilege often without knowing that this does damage other communities of color that we need to support and stand with.
2
I am guessing that Asian-Americans are never biased or stereotype Euro-Americans? Truth is that within the Asian culture, even here in America (especially in Hawaii), there is racism. One nationality claims superiority over another. I.E.-Darker Asians or those from the Philippines are lesser.
There is racism within every race. It's in our caveman, tribal DNA. Fear or distrust of people that looked different was a survival trait.
I wish the NYT would stop using the race click-bait. Separates us more.
There is racism within every race. It's in our caveman, tribal DNA. Fear or distrust of people that looked different was a survival trait.
I wish the NYT would stop using the race click-bait. Separates us more.
5
The racism experienced by Asian Americans is real and it should be addressed and corrected as must all stereotyping behaviors which result in unreasonable behaviors towards people. All people are unique individuals whose myriad abilities and limitations are not accurately described according to stereotypes.
What concerns me is the use of the term institutionalized racism. This is a term that reasonably applies to laws and explicit customs unless one believes that human beings are born as blank slates and must be taught by society to be people in every way. That point of view was long ago proven to be as unreal as the concept of race, a defunct idea about people that lingers on and continues to confuse people's endeavors to live as well as they can. So what institutions cause people to persist in stereotyping people in terms of race? If you cannot describe the problem as it is, you cannot bring about answers that will reliably solve the problem.
So what is the source of racism? The preference of people to use pattern matching to arrive at understandings about what they encounter before settling into the long and arduous task of actually reasoning through to an understanding. Stereotyping comes from this preference. The preference of people to form strong affiliations with a group of people that leads to us verses them attitudes.
What concerns me is the use of the term institutionalized racism. This is a term that reasonably applies to laws and explicit customs unless one believes that human beings are born as blank slates and must be taught by society to be people in every way. That point of view was long ago proven to be as unreal as the concept of race, a defunct idea about people that lingers on and continues to confuse people's endeavors to live as well as they can. So what institutions cause people to persist in stereotyping people in terms of race? If you cannot describe the problem as it is, you cannot bring about answers that will reliably solve the problem.
So what is the source of racism? The preference of people to use pattern matching to arrive at understandings about what they encounter before settling into the long and arduous task of actually reasoning through to an understanding. Stereotyping comes from this preference. The preference of people to form strong affiliations with a group of people that leads to us verses them attitudes.
1
I identify as Asian-American and think that this video was refreshing to see: it contrasts countless social identity-related stories I’ve read that exclude the voices and nuanced data of the Asian-American community.
Ironically, most commenters on this op-ed are perpetuating the problem that they’re trying to debunk. By making comments such as “racism against Asian-Americans isn’t a real problem”, you are showing that racism against Asian-Americans is indeed a reality by trying to one-up our voices and minimizing our real, lived experiences, which are portrayed right in front of you.
The Asian-American identity is in flux, and non Asian-Americans need to respect that, especially if they’re attempting to judge a lived reality that isn’t theirs to begin with.
Again, the Asian-American identity is in flux: we are not black, and we are not white. We are privileged in some ways and severely oppressed in others. We’re recipients of white privilege often without knowing that this does damage other communities of color that we need to support and stand with.
We have a stake in this conversation about race, privilege, and justice. And in the moments when we don't think so, we can educate ourselves on these initiatives: 18MillionRising. CAAAV. Race Files. #APIs4BlackLives.
Ironically, most commenters on this op-ed are perpetuating the problem that they’re trying to debunk. By making comments such as “racism against Asian-Americans isn’t a real problem”, you are showing that racism against Asian-Americans is indeed a reality by trying to one-up our voices and minimizing our real, lived experiences, which are portrayed right in front of you.
The Asian-American identity is in flux, and non Asian-Americans need to respect that, especially if they’re attempting to judge a lived reality that isn’t theirs to begin with.
Again, the Asian-American identity is in flux: we are not black, and we are not white. We are privileged in some ways and severely oppressed in others. We’re recipients of white privilege often without knowing that this does damage other communities of color that we need to support and stand with.
We have a stake in this conversation about race, privilege, and justice. And in the moments when we don't think so, we can educate ourselves on these initiatives: 18MillionRising. CAAAV. Race Files. #APIs4BlackLives.
4
Asians also have their own history of racism. The northern Asians tend to look down on those darker skin Asians from Southeast Asia. I read that the Han Chinese put whites first then Han second. Southeast Asians are somewhere like third on the list. Also everyone wants to remain out of the sun fearful to get a dark complexion from a tan. If you take a teaching job in China they would prefer a white person over any other group, including other Asians like themselves and blacks. Skin color plays a big role in Asian culture. Look at India with their caste system. Guess which of the caste the lighter skin Indians belong to? If anything Asians tend to be seen as smart and aspiring. If there is a news story about an Asian committing a crime in America people tend to ignore that and pay attention to black crime. I guess it's a way of saying Asians can't be criminals. Meanwhile a lot of the crime that takes place in California are committed by Asians. Albeit they some might argue Southeastern Asians.
Is positive stereotyping ok? Every one of these people presents themselves as smart and approachable. Of course I'm not in their shoes but they seem like people you would want to hire, trust, meet at a party etc.
They don't seem to be pretending they're public enemy #1 or that it would be a good idea for people to think they were. They are not at all threatening.
They don't seem to be pretending they're public enemy #1 or that it would be a good idea for people to think they were. They are not at all threatening.
The whole concept of "model minority" is insulting to Asian Americans because it assumed that the majority is perfect and Asians are the closest to them.
The term 'model-minority' is in and of itself so insulting, as it comes from a place of power...in this case, the white establishment. It's basically patting Asian folk on the head and saying "while 'you people' will always be seen as Other, of all the Others out there, we think you are the best...the most palatable'. Employing this term vis-a-vis Asians then also serves as a way to say to Latinos and Blacks "you are NOT what we consider 'model minorities'."
4
Have we reached the point where people are asked to feel ashamed of belonging to successful groups?
14
Hi Siobhan,
No, we haven't reached that point, and "asking people to feel ashamed of belonging to successful groups" isn't at the heart of this video, from my perspective.
There are systemic and personal problems with dubbing Asian-Americans as the successful, model minority: the stories of Asian-Americans who don't fit that mold are rendered invisible, and systemically, this stereotype can lead organizations and institutions to deny Asian-Americans access to resources that are sorely needed.
No, we haven't reached that point, and "asking people to feel ashamed of belonging to successful groups" isn't at the heart of this video, from my perspective.
There are systemic and personal problems with dubbing Asian-Americans as the successful, model minority: the stories of Asian-Americans who don't fit that mold are rendered invisible, and systemically, this stereotype can lead organizations and institutions to deny Asian-Americans access to resources that are sorely needed.
Asians aren't successful per se. There just happen to be a lot highly educated Asian immigrants and children of highly educated Asian immigrants.
Also, that shame isn't being successful. A lot of times it's shame and fear of disappointing parents feel because you decided to be a teacher or picked another lower paying, possibly society-bettering career instead of trying to be rich, making them look good, and providing their retirement nest egg.
Also, that shame isn't being successful. A lot of times it's shame and fear of disappointing parents feel because you decided to be a teacher or picked another lower paying, possibly society-bettering career instead of trying to be rich, making them look good, and providing their retirement nest egg.
how can you feel shame or pride about something you had nothing to do with
esp which 'group' you 'belong' to
if youre Jewish should you feel pride in Einsteins accomplishments
not at all
th fact that you and einstein are both Jewish is an accident of th randomness of genetics
th only person who can feel proud of einsteins accomplishment is einstein
esp which 'group' you 'belong' to
if youre Jewish should you feel pride in Einsteins accomplishments
not at all
th fact that you and einstein are both Jewish is an accident of th randomness of genetics
th only person who can feel proud of einsteins accomplishment is einstein
1
I'm glad to see the New York Times is focusing on Asian Americans for a change. The conversation isn't so much about race, though, as it is about racism. I'm not sure why it's so hard for this paper ever to acknowledge that the problem isn't race but racism, but so be it. Also great that you changed the "Asians" in the headline to "Asian Americans." We're talking about Americans. Let's all try to remember that, and more power to everyone in the video for speaking out!
26
@ Sleater - Sleater, I have been asking that question for the past two years at least, have written to Charles Blow, to George Yancy (16 articles on "Race" at The Stone), and written countless comments just like yours, the latest of which is here http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/05/opinion/a-conversation-with-asians-on-...
Yet every headline uses "Race" not "Racism". I finally concluded that my fellow Americans, those who write here, use "race" and "racism" as synonyms so I asked Rima Regas, and she replied, yes we use them as synonyms.
I do not understand this so wrote t the Public Editor to ask if there is a style manual that says race = racism.
Keep making that point every chance you get, you are a Verified and can be out early. And why not send an Email to Charles Blow who wrote "Constructing A Conversation About Race" but apparently meant racism.
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
Yet every headline uses "Race" not "Racism". I finally concluded that my fellow Americans, those who write here, use "race" and "racism" as synonyms so I asked Rima Regas, and she replied, yes we use them as synonyms.
I do not understand this so wrote t the Public Editor to ask if there is a style manual that says race = racism.
Keep making that point every chance you get, you are a Verified and can be out early. And why not send an Email to Charles Blow who wrote "Constructing A Conversation About Race" but apparently meant racism.
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
Asian Americans need to put forth a little effort it they expect Americans to stop stereotyping them as bright, goal-oriented and socially responsible. They need to increase their dropout rate and lower their GPAs and SAT/ACT scores. Asian Americans make up 5.4 percent of the U.S. population, but account for only 1.2 percent of arrest. If Asian Americans would commit their fair share of crimes, Americans would stop stereotyping them as law-abiding. Asian Americans should refuse to take IQ tests, which only cause other racial groups feel inadequate. Surveys show whites are as likely to use illegal drugs as African Americans and Hispanics Americans, but Asian Americans can make no such claim. Newspapers could help by not publishing the names of valedictorians, salutatorians and honor graduates, but Asian Americans have mostly themselves to blame for their image problem. Asian American parents should ask themselves what they are wrong.
69
Hang on, this guy is trying to be funny, right?
If not, how about some personal responsibility? How about everyone else start working hard and abide by law of the land.
Did Nancy Reagan's "just say no" to drugs stick with Americans? thank we know the answer
If not, how about some personal responsibility? How about everyone else start working hard and abide by law of the land.
Did Nancy Reagan's "just say no" to drugs stick with Americans? thank we know the answer
when busing first began, japanese and chinese parents in san francisco complained they didnt want their kids going to th same schools as white kids
1
The term "model minority" is patronizing and there is always a danger when painting a group with too broad a brush. It tends to create a lazy mind and allow other generalizations to occur that may be not as innocuous. Instead of the word model minority would you feel the same if the term "superior race" was used?
As a Jew, I felt some of the feelings of being "the other", not a white Christian. The Asians and Latino and African American communities have the same issues but also look "different" so assimilation is harder. Still, since Jews are much harder to spot visually we are often the recipient of antisemetism unbeknownst to the racist in our midst. As 1.5% of the population, the Jew is "the other" but because we have behaved well, we have overall succeeded at least on the surface. Of course, don't think that Jews are exactly welcome, they are just tolerated. We identify with the Asians who say, we behave and do well in school etc... So we can be included.
32
@Alan- You wrote, "Of course, don't think that Jews are exactly welcome, they are just tolerated."
I think you may be a little paranoid here- Please name me the Asian American Lobby that is equivalent to the power and influence as AIPAC? You can't because there is none- The entire US Congress must bow before this group every election cycle and swear eternal allegiance and protection to the State of Israel [a foreign country mind you] or their seats are in jeopardy. How much more inclusion and recognition are you looking for or expecting from the rest of America? It seems to me you want to have your cake and eat it too. Assimilation and cooperation among ALL American minority groups vital to our Democracy but it is absolutely pointless if one of those groups is ingratiatingly selfish and insists on their own political platform to stand.
I think you may be a little paranoid here- Please name me the Asian American Lobby that is equivalent to the power and influence as AIPAC? You can't because there is none- The entire US Congress must bow before this group every election cycle and swear eternal allegiance and protection to the State of Israel [a foreign country mind you] or their seats are in jeopardy. How much more inclusion and recognition are you looking for or expecting from the rest of America? It seems to me you want to have your cake and eat it too. Assimilation and cooperation among ALL American minority groups vital to our Democracy but it is absolutely pointless if one of those groups is ingratiatingly selfish and insists on their own political platform to stand.
2
Hello Alan:
I fell the same way. My father is Black and mother Jewish. Imagine my situation in a Black setting. Whereas I am Jewish, halachically speaking, I will always be the outsider. In the Black community I might be a colored person but harder to spot as a Jew, I am thought of as Black. When people find out I am a Jew, then come the craziest stuff out of peoples mouths. I guess I should say that with Blacks and Whites, I am the outsider and tolerated as you have said because of accomplishments I have made and being lettered. If that wasn't the case, I am sure the level of racism and antisemetism would be much higher than what it has been.
I fell the same way. My father is Black and mother Jewish. Imagine my situation in a Black setting. Whereas I am Jewish, halachically speaking, I will always be the outsider. In the Black community I might be a colored person but harder to spot as a Jew, I am thought of as Black. When people find out I am a Jew, then come the craziest stuff out of peoples mouths. I guess I should say that with Blacks and Whites, I am the outsider and tolerated as you have said because of accomplishments I have made and being lettered. If that wasn't the case, I am sure the level of racism and antisemetism would be much higher than what it has been.
To those claiming that Asian-Americans are not a model minority because of the certain features unique to Asian immigration or the fact that some Asians make more than others, please put down the shoddy strawman and stop pretending that "model minority" means something that it doesn't. The definition of the "model minority" is simply an ethnic minority that enjoys lower incarceration rates and greater family stability, income levels, and academic achievement than other ethnic groups. It doesn't have one iota to do with how or why that group came here, and doesn't assert in its basic definition a theory as to why that group has been more successful than its peers.
Similar reasoning would be akin to my saying that white privilege doesn't exist because, say, immigrants from the UK have higher average incomes in America than Russian immigrants. Or that whites haven't been successful in America because there are woefully poor people in Appalachia.
Those who would claim that Asians are not a model minority because some the lives of all Asian-Americans are not uniformly perfect, and that some Asians make more money than others are making an almost comedically weak argument. It is clear why a certain kind of ideologue would be so desperate to debunk the term, though –– such an idea is profoundly damaging to the bogus notion of "white supremacy" and the massive cultural project to tar all whites as eternal slavers and bigoted imperialists.
Similar reasoning would be akin to my saying that white privilege doesn't exist because, say, immigrants from the UK have higher average incomes in America than Russian immigrants. Or that whites haven't been successful in America because there are woefully poor people in Appalachia.
Those who would claim that Asians are not a model minority because some the lives of all Asian-Americans are not uniformly perfect, and that some Asians make more money than others are making an almost comedically weak argument. It is clear why a certain kind of ideologue would be so desperate to debunk the term, though –– such an idea is profoundly damaging to the bogus notion of "white supremacy" and the massive cultural project to tar all whites as eternal slavers and bigoted imperialists.
13
Agreed. And similarly, note the recent article where Asians complain about being the victims of affirmative action at Universities. Take out the "white power structure" factor and the topic takes on a whole new light.
I find the whole immigrant issue in America very interesting. While I feel for some of these groups that came here for a better life, but don't want to lose their old life, I can help but disagree. Not that they're wrong, but for America to have cohesion, we need a national identity, which may involve immigrants assimilating. I don't know to what extent, but I feel that a national identity and national viewpoint is need for a county to run. I look at countries in Europe, especially Scandinavian countries, and they do not have these issues. They will never need to deal with racial issues like America does. While it may make us stronger, it also tears us down and pits us together. Just my two cents.
7
Yeah, eating all that pasta and having St. Patrick's Day parades. Yeah, everyone assimilated.
I urge you to study the history of Immigration. There is a model. All models are false; however, some are useful. In this model, the immigrant often arrives only with the intention to work and take the economic opportunities, with a desire to return; the immigrant rarely learns English and often stays in ethnic enclaves. Their children speak English in public and the old language at home. The 2nd generation - they're almost totally "Americans"
And *THAT* is exactly what forms the basis of what makes America Great. Her Greatness lies in the fact that it doesn't matter who you were or where you came from you can become a full American (by the intentional choice of a just-arrived immigrant or passively as a 2nd generation descendant of an immigrant) and you can achieve greatness in America based on what you can do.
That "cohesive national unity" you (mistakenly) long for happens over time - there is no need to rush it. It used to be that the Irish and the Italians were "other" - alien - rejected - "Irish need not apply" - over time, most groups acquire "normal-ness" within a few generations of the immigration wave.
I urge you and all to be proud that America (eventually) celebrates all comers, and to increase your tolerance and acceptance for "other-ness" not as a rejection of what you are today but as an improvement of what we all will be (together) one day.
That is what truly makes America Great. In Sweden, immigrants will never become Swedish. But here they do.
And *THAT* is exactly what forms the basis of what makes America Great. Her Greatness lies in the fact that it doesn't matter who you were or where you came from you can become a full American (by the intentional choice of a just-arrived immigrant or passively as a 2nd generation descendant of an immigrant) and you can achieve greatness in America based on what you can do.
That "cohesive national unity" you (mistakenly) long for happens over time - there is no need to rush it. It used to be that the Irish and the Italians were "other" - alien - rejected - "Irish need not apply" - over time, most groups acquire "normal-ness" within a few generations of the immigration wave.
I urge you and all to be proud that America (eventually) celebrates all comers, and to increase your tolerance and acceptance for "other-ness" not as a rejection of what you are today but as an improvement of what we all will be (together) one day.
That is what truly makes America Great. In Sweden, immigrants will never become Swedish. But here they do.
I am not sure the statement European countries do not have racial issues correct; have you checked out the muslim ghettos in france ad germany?
With regards to the US we have always have problem with refugees and immigration, starting in the year 1492. Before we had ethinic minorities we had religious ones like catholics and jews and the fear that they will never assimilate with society.
With regards to the US we have always have problem with refugees and immigration, starting in the year 1492. Before we had ethinic minorities we had religious ones like catholics and jews and the fear that they will never assimilate with society.
I appreciate the opportunity to see this video. It has made me aware of some of what my grandchildren may be facing. And I find this deeply disturbing! Being white with one full blooded Asian & one 1/2 Asian granddaughter, I am reduced to calling myself an American mutt, for lack of a better way to describe myself. I only know one ancestor was from Ireland & the others, probably from European countries. And that does not make me better or less than anyone else.
I thought our country was so much better than all this. But, the election of our Pres. & this political candidates just seem to have open up the flood gates to the racial hate . How very sad.
I thought our country was so much better than all this. But, the election of our Pres. & this political candidates just seem to have open up the flood gates to the racial hate . How very sad.
16
@GraceD: One simple suggestion: Stop feeling sorry for yourself, and appreciate the advantages that we all enjoy as AMERICANS. It is an open secret that the majority of students at our elite colleges and universities, including U. of Cal.at Berkeley, are Asian. Same is true for M.I.T. and other elite institutions. So, what is ur problem?If any minority has been discriminated against on the basis of color, mistreated by police forces across the nation, and go through life, not in every case but in many, as second class citizens, despite Supreme Court ruling of 1954 and Voting RIGHTS legislation of the 1960's, it is AFRICAN AMERICANS.Dealing with discrimination because of skin pigmentation is a daily challenge. Bias against Asians is a pretend problem, not a real one. We remain the most tolerant , broad minded nation in the world, and Asians,like other Americans, r citizens a part entiiere."
7
Grace, be proud to call yourself an American and get on with it.
Who are you to say that bias against Asians is a pretend problem? Have you experienced this yourself, and are you Asian or Asian-American?
1
In Taiwan, it is common for Filipinos to be brought into the country to work as house maids, nannies, or caretakers for the elderly. They are commonly looked down upon and treated poorly, and discrimination against those from SE Asia is not unusual. I agree that racism continues to exist in the US, but I think we need to keep in mind how alive and well it remains elsewhere.
39
Asians are discriminated against, and often it is by liberal elite institutions like Harvard, Yale, MIT, etc. An Asian has much higher barriers to entry to the best colleges and universities (SAT scores and grades) than any other ethnic group, including whites.
As governor of California, Ronald Reagan reportedly pushed for race-blind admissions to the university system. His advisors protested, saying that such a policy might produce Asian-only classes.
His response: "So?"
As governor of California, Ronald Reagan reportedly pushed for race-blind admissions to the university system. His advisors protested, saying that such a policy might produce Asian-only classes.
His response: "So?"
80
Yes! When will Asians finally be allowed into elite universities? (He said sarcastically).
2
Would like to see the Asian community protest outside Harvard's graduation day decrying the racism in admitting Asian "Asian test scores matter" hey hey ho ho Harvard racism has got to go!
2
dear top five readers' picks commenters: suggesting that the asian american experience doesn't need discussing because asian americans find "successful high paying jobs because they focus on family and education" or because asians are "the new jews" pretty much sums up exactly why we need to begin talking about the asian-american experience and the effects of insidious racism.
23
Racism is a moving target. Just because overt racist slurs and violence are now barred by anti discrimination workplace and hate crime laws, whites have not suddenly had a change of heart and become ambassadors of multiculturalism.
However, the worst is racism against your own kind. The statistically significant difference in the ratio of asian female – white couples far outnumbering asian male –white couples cannot be explained by “random acts of love.” Documented by dating sites, the percentage preference of asian females for whites over their own exceeds that of black females or other minority categories, and far exceeds that of white females.
Whites are never challenged for sticking with their own, except when they use their majority power to deny others access to public facilities, voting representation and fair employment. Yet asian females try to distance themselves as far as possible from asian males by parroting the same asian stereotypes mouthed by whites, while hypocritically insisting they themselves are not submissive to whites.
However, the worst is racism against your own kind. The statistically significant difference in the ratio of asian female – white couples far outnumbering asian male –white couples cannot be explained by “random acts of love.” Documented by dating sites, the percentage preference of asian females for whites over their own exceeds that of black females or other minority categories, and far exceeds that of white females.
Whites are never challenged for sticking with their own, except when they use their majority power to deny others access to public facilities, voting representation and fair employment. Yet asian females try to distance themselves as far as possible from asian males by parroting the same asian stereotypes mouthed by whites, while hypocritically insisting they themselves are not submissive to whites.
10
Are you saying a woman should not be allowed free choice of mates but must instead conform to some twisted notion of race in choosing a mate?
Indeed, this is the big white elephant in the room. All one has to do is note the number of other Comments here that alluded to their own or other family members' white male/asian female relationships, to see further evidence of this trend. What folks fail to realize is that just because one may be in an inter-racial relationship, does not automatically mean you are therefore devoid of any racial stereotyping and/or self-hate.
But it takes two to tango and if asian females are choosing to be with white males, then it stands to reason that white males are choosing to be with asian females. Is that okay? Is that a problem? Or is it only one-sided? And while it is the 21st century, it is still more likely that not the male who approaches the female, no matter the race.
I found this video to be quite one-sided in its view of our nation. As an Asian-American (or American of Asian descent), the America I grew up and came of age in in the 1970s and 1980s of a mid-size city in the San Francisco Bay Area called Alameda sounds nothing like the horror stories recounted here over and over again by so many Asian-Americans. I absolutely refuse to believe that things are as bad as depicted in this one-sided presentation, which to me is packaged in a way to affirm someone's bias (writers?) at the NYT about ways in which Americans of Asian descent interact with other races and cultures. If you knew little about the diversity of experiences of Asian Americans, you'd come away from this video thinking all persons not of Asian descent where pointed hoods with long white robes with "X" on the chest, and like nothing to do other than harass Asian Americans. Come on NYT? You absolutely couldn't make the time and effort to show that breadth of experiences? Come on: this is junk.
11
Well, if you grew up in the 70's as one of the very few Chinese in a city called Jacksonville, Florida, as I did, you would have a much better appreciation for these stories. You were lucky enough to live in an environment with a large Asian population. We weren't. And I would say outside any major metropolis like LA, San Francisco or New York, this is the Asian American experience - being told you're not American or to "go back to where you came from." Don't dismiss this.
NYT, HELLOOOO! You do a big interview piece with Americans of Asian extraction and your tone-deaf headline-writer, and the somnolent editor on this piece, come up with and let pass the headline, "A Conversation with Asians on Race"! "Asians"???? The whole point is that Asian-Americans are AMERICANS who were born, or whose parents or ancestors were born, in Asia. The headline is the quintessence of the perception problem that surrounds so many Asian Americans every day, in my impression.
24
This conversation is necessary but we are in a transition period. Many of the prejudices and irritating assumptions made by non-Asian Americans as to Asian-Americans have begun to fall apart as our numbers increase, our world becomes smaller, and multiculturalism makes Asians appear less exotic.
1
It's curious that many of the highly recommended comments that try to reaffirm the "Asians as model minority" argument rely on aggregated data based on the Asian race category. The policy-supported immigration of high performers like my father all but cemented Asians as the model minority. And this is precisely where ecological fallacy fuels ignorance, and where ethnocentric arguments gain undue scientific validity and statistical support.
The new ACS form has made some progress to detail ethnic minorities within “Asian” though it still has a long way to go with all race categories. This data collection issue is itself a function of a scientific culture that privileges parsimonious quantitative modeling and taxonomies that exclude “complicating” variables and context. It’s no coincidence that this is a vignette of the online conversation that’s being had here.
We need to complicate our conversation about race. It’s attractive psychologically to want to say, “If you just worry about taking care of your own, everything else will follow”. For a lot of people, that works. But that mindset is also incredibly divisive and it eschews conversations about systemic issues. Arguments based on the primacy of individual responsibility allow us to ignore the struggles of individuals who were not born with your mental fortitude, your family’s strength to overcome adversity and ability to nurture that strength within you, and the benefits of your racial and class privileges.
The new ACS form has made some progress to detail ethnic minorities within “Asian” though it still has a long way to go with all race categories. This data collection issue is itself a function of a scientific culture that privileges parsimonious quantitative modeling and taxonomies that exclude “complicating” variables and context. It’s no coincidence that this is a vignette of the online conversation that’s being had here.
We need to complicate our conversation about race. It’s attractive psychologically to want to say, “If you just worry about taking care of your own, everything else will follow”. For a lot of people, that works. But that mindset is also incredibly divisive and it eschews conversations about systemic issues. Arguments based on the primacy of individual responsibility allow us to ignore the struggles of individuals who were not born with your mental fortitude, your family’s strength to overcome adversity and ability to nurture that strength within you, and the benefits of your racial and class privileges.
9
Every year of my life I understand a bit more about just how much white privilege I have experienced in America. I also realize that I look at every other race and culture in my country like I look at things through a microscope: interesting, but I am just an observer of their environment. Yes, I live in a very diverse neighborhood, but while I accept my neighbors as equals, I'm now realizing subconsciously I feel more American. I wish I had realized this decades ago.
6
What I ultimately find disturbing is the up-voted comments on this commenting board and the total dismissal of the commentators in the video. We have people who just came to comment and throw out their vitriol and not engage in a real conversation. We are truly not post-racial is we have the same drum beat of commentators who are most likely, white and male in most cases, with exceptions. Please, I haven't heard enough from white males in my lifetime, please tell us poor darkies how we should feel again... Do y'all cut and paste your comments from right wing media or get them straight from Fox News and the Right-Wing Aggrieved White Male Movement Media sources?
16
Wow! We sure aren't "post racial" when you can post such incredibly bigoted remarks.
The "commentators" in the video are not just readers who felt moved to make a comment. They were hand-picked by the NY Times to make a point. Much more representative are the commentators in the comments section. I don't believe that any of the comments are telling "darkies" how they should feel. The fact that you hate white males and hold repulsive racists and sexist beliefs about them is not sufficient reason for any person not to participate in this discussion. It is, however, a huge reason why the much touted "national discussion on race" has never happened.
The "commentators" in the video are not just readers who felt moved to make a comment. They were hand-picked by the NY Times to make a point. Much more representative are the commentators in the comments section. I don't believe that any of the comments are telling "darkies" how they should feel. The fact that you hate white males and hold repulsive racists and sexist beliefs about them is not sufficient reason for any person not to participate in this discussion. It is, however, a huge reason why the much touted "national discussion on race" has never happened.
I don't hate white males. I have them in my family - maternal uncles are all white males. The problem is that too frequently white males seem to want to dictate to people how they should feel.
But your comment says more about you than me. So there. I've seen your other comments, and your paranoia is showing.
But your comment says more about you than me. So there. I've seen your other comments, and your paranoia is showing.
1
I'm sorry to read how many Asian (Americans) have given into allowing their negative experiences in the U.S. to define their world view. I've certainly experienced my share of racism throughout my life, or witnessed it when non-Asians expressed their stereotypical attitudes without realizing what they were, but my life experience, on the whole, has been a positive one.
I was born abroad and immigrated with my family as a child. I grew up in a predominantly white suburb in NYC, back when Asians outside of Chinatown were a rarity (I can recall being stared at on a city bus). I went to a relatively diverse public school. Most of my friends were white, but in NYC, that means a range of ethnic backgrounds, including Irish, Italian, and Jews, so we were all different in our own ways.
I never felt or was made to feel odd or different by my friends or their families. Perhaps as first or second generation immigrants themselves, they understood the stigma of "otherhood" and made an effort to include me.
The closest rec center was the JCC, so I spent a lot of my time with Jewish kids. My best friends in elementary and junior high school were Italian kids. I didn't have many Asian friends, not out of self-hate or any animosity, there simply weren't many Asian kids around my neighborhood.
Regardless of what origin descriptor prefaces our identity, we are all as American as we choose to be. Inclusion and embrace starts from within.
I was born abroad and immigrated with my family as a child. I grew up in a predominantly white suburb in NYC, back when Asians outside of Chinatown were a rarity (I can recall being stared at on a city bus). I went to a relatively diverse public school. Most of my friends were white, but in NYC, that means a range of ethnic backgrounds, including Irish, Italian, and Jews, so we were all different in our own ways.
I never felt or was made to feel odd or different by my friends or their families. Perhaps as first or second generation immigrants themselves, they understood the stigma of "otherhood" and made an effort to include me.
The closest rec center was the JCC, so I spent a lot of my time with Jewish kids. My best friends in elementary and junior high school were Italian kids. I didn't have many Asian friends, not out of self-hate or any animosity, there simply weren't many Asian kids around my neighborhood.
Regardless of what origin descriptor prefaces our identity, we are all as American as we choose to be. Inclusion and embrace starts from within.
18
I was at a party outside Philadelphia last weekend of about 25-30 people and there were several Indian & Asian Americans present; nobody could have cared less.
3
As a biracial Asian, I found one woman's comments about how she, being Vietnamese and lighter skinned, experienced less discrimination than darker skinned Cambodians. She spoke of the need to acknowledge the privilege lighter skinned asians often experience, which I found rang true to my own identity in a sort of limbo between white and asian. Being a mixed child I experience all the discomfort of not belonging with my white peers, yet I was often spared some of the nastier racially motivated bullying. I can pinpoint a specific indcident in which a group of boys on my bus ridiculed a Chinese-American boy but never once said a word to me. This bullying persisted for weeks and for a while I was complacent, too scared to speak up for fear of that racism being turned on me. I realized, however, I couldn't just pray that my watered down Chinese looks would be white enough to escape others' judgement and I eventually reported those boys and the bullying stopped. But the damage had been done and the Chinese-America boy transferred schools when the year was out. That experience was critical to the development of my identity and the acceptance of my mixed heritage and it contiues to inform my life. I will never again be complacent in the face of discrimination, bigotry or hatred.
37
I urge you to nurture whatever it is inside you that made you stand up (as a boy) and turn it into something that makes you stand up again now (as a man). DO something. Take action. It is rare that people will act. You have that gift. Use it.
Maybe join Black Lives Matter. But do something.
Maybe join Black Lives Matter. But do something.
Asian Americans should be more concerned with their rather disgraceful demands to end affirmative action, especially their lawsuits. This does great damage to African-americans.
Do not speak for us African-americans. SMH.
1
Rae, non-blacks can't freely speak about issues pertaining to African-Americans? If that's your view, and it's about as fascist as it gets, please refrain from making comments about any other ethnicity besides blacks.
Affirmative Action permanently degrades its subaltern recipients.
1
I found this Op-Doc quite thoughtful and I found many of the Readers' Picks worthy of being ignored.
Back in the 1990's, I've had homeowners shut their doors and drivers lock their doors when I was lost and tried to ask for directions. I've had store owners and neighbors who accused me of stealing.
Now in the 2010's, realtors and store clerks think I have money to spend. Strangers and acquaintances are all quite polite.
I guess things have changed for the better. But I'm basically the same person (as a Chinese-American I stopped aging after 16) and yet I'm treated so differently.
Back in the 1990's, I've had homeowners shut their doors and drivers lock their doors when I was lost and tried to ask for directions. I've had store owners and neighbors who accused me of stealing.
Now in the 2010's, realtors and store clerks think I have money to spend. Strangers and acquaintances are all quite polite.
I guess things have changed for the better. But I'm basically the same person (as a Chinese-American I stopped aging after 16) and yet I'm treated so differently.
18
Being Japanese American, but have actually lived in Japan during my childhood, I have a perspective of an immigrant and that really helped me love both my Asian heritage and diverse America community. Japan is known as a cool country by many people and I've met so many people who like Japanese culture or grew up or born in Japan. That made my Japanese identity actually a conversation starter which was very welcoming as an immigrant. I know that Japan or Asian society as a whole can be very racist so some teasing about my race is nothing compared to those endured by foreigners in Asia. I went to a state university on West coast with so many Asian Americans and international Asian students so being Asian was no big deal there.
1
Power through division: the way of the soulless overachiever.
2
I'm white, wife is Asian, and I for one think that what is called "institutional racism" is more than explained by other real differences in races, differences that are real, most likely largely immutable and effectively censored from public discourse. All of this information is readily available and on the internet. Or you could simply read the Bell Curve by Charles Murray. Asians, in America, by almost any measure, as population, are more successful than the white majority. What is the complaint? Sorry, I just don't get it.
5
Great. Because you have an Asian wife you get to discount what AA feel. Umm is she American?
2
SUGGESTION: If the author wants to show how detrimental it is to paint all minorities with broad strokes, he/she might want to consider renaming each video as "an Asian" or "a Latino" on race, not "Asians" or "Latinos" insinuating that these interviews are representative of the experience of the entire race, which is contrary to the point of the series.
3
you can't be serious?
2
1) To categorize people from an area which is as vast as all of North America, with several cultures that are millennia old, multiple heterogeneous races, and hundreds of languages under one label of "Asian" points out the idiocy of the Americans and the American political system that needs identify all non-Europeans as being less than equal Americans unless they can pass as white, in which case their "American-ness" is not questioned.
2) Having said that, this "mode minority" group is certainly not viewed as favorably on America's roads. If you see a car doing 30 mph on the left lane in a 50 mph zone, a car that makes a wild and dangerous lane change with no signal or warning, or a car that rushes a turn through a stop sign only to dramatically slow down after the turn is made, you can be sure that there is a 95% chance that the driver belongs to the "model minority" whose ancestors came from those Asian regions that bound the Western (or Eastern depending on your viewpoint) shores Pacific Ocean.
2) Having said that, this "mode minority" group is certainly not viewed as favorably on America's roads. If you see a car doing 30 mph on the left lane in a 50 mph zone, a car that makes a wild and dangerous lane change with no signal or warning, or a car that rushes a turn through a stop sign only to dramatically slow down after the turn is made, you can be sure that there is a 95% chance that the driver belongs to the "model minority" whose ancestors came from those Asian regions that bound the Western (or Eastern depending on your viewpoint) shores Pacific Ocean.
There is some truth the to "Asian immigrant driver" stereotype and here's the explanation: Suburban and rural Americans learn to drive at 18 (and often as early as 15) and it is part of their daily experience as evidenced by the overflowing high school parking lots and kids using the family car for dates even back in the 1950s. Driving is a little like a sport. Learning it young makes it second nature just like violin or tennis or skiing. Despite the clogged roads, there is no equivalent driving culture in Asia. There simply were no family cars in China until 15 years ago. There is very close to zero student parking at any high school or college in East Asia. Rich women have drivers and the poor take the bus or train. A vast middle class of women carting their kids all over the place like in the US just doesn't exist in Asia. So immigrants or Chinatowners who learn to drive in their 30s never feel as comfortable. Same is true with some entire-life New Yorkers (about the only place in America where teenagers don't drive) and many admit they feel uncomfortable driving on LA freeways because they really have don't have much experience. If you have never skied or played tennis, go out and try it and see how you do.
It's curious that many of the highly recommended comments that try to reaffirm the "Asians as model minority" argument rely on aggregate data based on the Asian race category. The policy-supported immigration of high performers like my father all but cemented Asians as the model minority. And this is precisely where ecological fallacy fuels ignorance, and where ethnocentric arguments gain undue scientific validity and statistical support.
The new ACS form has made some progress to detail ethnic minorities within “Asian” though it still has a long way to go with all race categories. This data collection issue is itself a function of a scientific culture that privileges parsimonious quantitative modeling and taxonomies that exclude “complicating” variables and context. It’s no coincidence that this is a vignette of the online conversation that’s being had here.
We need to complicate our conversation about race. It’s attractive psychologically to want to say, “If you just worry about taking care of your own, everything else will follow”. For a lot of people, that works. But that mindset is also incredibly divisive and it eschews conversations about systemic issues. Arguments based on the primacy of individual responsibility allow us to ignore the struggles of individuals who were not born with your mental fortitude, your family’s strength to overcome adversity and ability to nurture that strength within you, and the benefits of your racial and class privileges.
The new ACS form has made some progress to detail ethnic minorities within “Asian” though it still has a long way to go with all race categories. This data collection issue is itself a function of a scientific culture that privileges parsimonious quantitative modeling and taxonomies that exclude “complicating” variables and context. It’s no coincidence that this is a vignette of the online conversation that’s being had here.
We need to complicate our conversation about race. It’s attractive psychologically to want to say, “If you just worry about taking care of your own, everything else will follow”. For a lot of people, that works. But that mindset is also incredibly divisive and it eschews conversations about systemic issues. Arguments based on the primacy of individual responsibility allow us to ignore the struggles of individuals who were not born with your mental fortitude, your family’s strength to overcome adversity and ability to nurture that strength within you, and the benefits of your racial and class privileges.
4
Considering the way cultures in East Asia itself fracture along lines imperceptible to outsiders, complaints about stereotyping of Asian Americans in the US seem, as they say, rich. Ancestry research in Japan is used widely against potential employees or future spouses. Fully assimilated Korean-Japanese experience discrimination in Japan. Even in Hawaii, these "traditions" persist. It would be surprising to nobody to find that cultural discrimination between Asian Americans themselves is common in the US.
5
Everyone came here originally, because they were leaving something worse, period. Until that is admitted, there will always be generated false, ideal expectations. Even the first people here were confronting something wild and frightening, as we all still are. It is up to every individual to make the difference, face up to why they came here in the first place, and give up the emotional insecurity over failure to live up to being a genuine individual. The very names, "white, asian, black," inherently pit people against one another, because they are unrealistic, racial terms that generalize and stereotype our thoughts about society. Look at your own culture and the schisms within it, then tell your story to us.
Discussing racism in America is not a genocide olympics where each group vies to show it has suffered most. As Chris Rock observed, American Indians lead in suffering near extermination.
Rather, we hope to overcome racism and achieve a more perfect union by understanding and then working together across groups to address ongoing manifestations of historic inequities.
Before Asian-Americans were white-washed as a "model minority," my family experienced the bigotry which pigeon-holed us in Chinese restaurants or laundries. If we couldn't be made benign by those categories, we were sneaky as alleged for the attack on Pearl Harbor or to be exterminated as the Viet Cong.
From there, being a model minority seemed like sanctuary and acceptance -- until Rodney King and the LA riots. Then, the media narrative threw Korean-Americans under the bus -- as the proximal face of structural racism established before the Constitution.
Since then, some have realized that to accept "model minority" as a positive epithet is to accept the status quo power distribution which seeks to aggregate and define our narratives and which assumes that white or European ancestry makes one more American.
So with the disgust of iconic immigrants of another time, I say, "Feh!" unto being tagged a "model minority" and embrace my American right to act up alongside all my fellow Americans who have less than their fair share of personal and community power!
Rather, we hope to overcome racism and achieve a more perfect union by understanding and then working together across groups to address ongoing manifestations of historic inequities.
Before Asian-Americans were white-washed as a "model minority," my family experienced the bigotry which pigeon-holed us in Chinese restaurants or laundries. If we couldn't be made benign by those categories, we were sneaky as alleged for the attack on Pearl Harbor or to be exterminated as the Viet Cong.
From there, being a model minority seemed like sanctuary and acceptance -- until Rodney King and the LA riots. Then, the media narrative threw Korean-Americans under the bus -- as the proximal face of structural racism established before the Constitution.
Since then, some have realized that to accept "model minority" as a positive epithet is to accept the status quo power distribution which seeks to aggregate and define our narratives and which assumes that white or European ancestry makes one more American.
So with the disgust of iconic immigrants of another time, I say, "Feh!" unto being tagged a "model minority" and embrace my American right to act up alongside all my fellow Americans who have less than their fair share of personal and community power!
14
Is it me or can "white" people only be racist and cannot be discriminated against? If all racism is bad why is the hate against "white" people ok? Can an Asian person not be racist? Can a black person not be racist? What's the point of shame articles like this? It seems counterintuitive to the long term goal this series claims to want to help. Kind of like Obama's promise to bring "us" together and decide not to prosecute the Black Panther party members caught on video intimidating voters in front of a voting place? You can't have it both ways for very much longer.
4
Did you actually watch the video or read the article? Did the article ever claim that white people cannot ever be discriminated against, or the interviewees claim that they are more special than anybody else?
They are simply sharing their personal experiences with racism. I did not hear any of them say, "oh, no, I suffer the most, nobody else suffers" or anything along those lines. Yet, you seem to have heavily filtered the information to take it as a some kind of attack on white people.
I think your reaction to this article and video says more about problems with your own attitude about race in America than anybody else's problems.
They are simply sharing their personal experiences with racism. I did not hear any of them say, "oh, no, I suffer the most, nobody else suffers" or anything along those lines. Yet, you seem to have heavily filtered the information to take it as a some kind of attack on white people.
I think your reaction to this article and video says more about problems with your own attitude about race in America than anybody else's problems.
I'm intrigued by how so many commenters can't accept this video for what it is, excerpts of personal stories. It's clearly not meant to be an ideological message and the fact some commenters projected their own issues onto it in order to see it as some type of political or ideological message shows the extent of right-wing brainwashing in this country.
15
@ Anne - You do not name commenters, which might help, just at it would have helped for the speakers to be named by first name only.
I agree completely that this video presents "excerpts of personal stories" but that is not how it is advertised both by the title here and the series name. This video is presented as "A Conversation With Asian-Americans on Race" and the Series is presented as "Conversations On Race". No effort is made at all to ask each individual how do you understand the American (USCB) concept of "race"? Do you see yourself as belonging to a "race"? Are you aware that leading scholars - Dorothy Roberts, Kenneth Prewitt, Svante Pääbo - question or reject the archaic race system employed by the USCB and standard in the NYT? Dorothy Roberts in the video cited at my main comment tells us there is only one race, the human race, but socially in America I am seen as black.
And you? Do you believe that the video does what it is advertised as doing, present a conversation about RACE (not racism)?
Only-neverInSweden.blogspot.com - gmail there
I agree completely that this video presents "excerpts of personal stories" but that is not how it is advertised both by the title here and the series name. This video is presented as "A Conversation With Asian-Americans on Race" and the Series is presented as "Conversations On Race". No effort is made at all to ask each individual how do you understand the American (USCB) concept of "race"? Do you see yourself as belonging to a "race"? Are you aware that leading scholars - Dorothy Roberts, Kenneth Prewitt, Svante Pääbo - question or reject the archaic race system employed by the USCB and standard in the NYT? Dorothy Roberts in the video cited at my main comment tells us there is only one race, the human race, but socially in America I am seen as black.
And you? Do you believe that the video does what it is advertised as doing, present a conversation about RACE (not racism)?
Only-neverInSweden.blogspot.com - gmail there
2
I'm confused
On the one hand I hear people proud and acutely aware of their ethnicity.. Korean American etc. On the other I hear that they are disappointed they cannot just be seen as American.
I'm not sure how to approach this.
When I see or talk to an American who happens to be from India it IS true that I am aware of their heritage... But I mean that's what makes this country interesting, I like the fact that they have different tastes and outlooks on the world. So that diversity, their diversity and acknowledging it, consciously or subconsciously is a plus... Isn't it?
I can't help but see they don't look just like me, and my mind tries to explain that by pinning a secondary culture to it... And sure that comes with some stereotypes, just as people must surely have when they see me... A white, middle aged male.
But those stereotypes don't have to be bad, or permanent, but rather a frame of reference.
No?
On the one hand I hear people proud and acutely aware of their ethnicity.. Korean American etc. On the other I hear that they are disappointed they cannot just be seen as American.
I'm not sure how to approach this.
When I see or talk to an American who happens to be from India it IS true that I am aware of their heritage... But I mean that's what makes this country interesting, I like the fact that they have different tastes and outlooks on the world. So that diversity, their diversity and acknowledging it, consciously or subconsciously is a plus... Isn't it?
I can't help but see they don't look just like me, and my mind tries to explain that by pinning a secondary culture to it... And sure that comes with some stereotypes, just as people must surely have when they see me... A white, middle aged male.
But those stereotypes don't have to be bad, or permanent, but rather a frame of reference.
No?
9
This is what I've been saying all along. Thank you for putting it into words I may have not been able to articulate. I'm sincerely interested in knowing about all other cultures. I want to celebrate it all. It's not a negative!
2
I understand your confusion. As a first generation American, I am still figuring out when it feels empowering to announce my Asian-Americanness, and when I want that part of my identity to fall into the background, so that other parts of me can shine through.
When you're consistently asked where you are from, it is consistently brought to your attention that you don't seem as if you "belong." I grew up assuming I knew more about China than the country where I was born and raised. I tended to doubt my familiarity with the culture and the community immediately surrounding me, because so many interactions implied that my experience of the only places I've ever really known was that of an outsider. True, I grew up bilingual, enjoyed "different" comfort foods, had distinctive values and expectations impressed upon me by my parents. The same variations exist among "white" people. But because of how I look, these are facets of my personal life that I often feel forced to reckon with, share, explain, or dispel on demand, rarely on my own terms.
We are all bound to make assumptions about other people based on how they appear superficially, how they seem different from us. This in itself is not the problem. The challenge is to let others change and enrich your initial perception of them (and the social identities they harbor), to let them show you what makes them different/unique rather than having them tell you in ways you think you can immediately grasp..
When you're consistently asked where you are from, it is consistently brought to your attention that you don't seem as if you "belong." I grew up assuming I knew more about China than the country where I was born and raised. I tended to doubt my familiarity with the culture and the community immediately surrounding me, because so many interactions implied that my experience of the only places I've ever really known was that of an outsider. True, I grew up bilingual, enjoyed "different" comfort foods, had distinctive values and expectations impressed upon me by my parents. The same variations exist among "white" people. But because of how I look, these are facets of my personal life that I often feel forced to reckon with, share, explain, or dispel on demand, rarely on my own terms.
We are all bound to make assumptions about other people based on how they appear superficially, how they seem different from us. This in itself is not the problem. The challenge is to let others change and enrich your initial perception of them (and the social identities they harbor), to let them show you what makes them different/unique rather than having them tell you in ways you think you can immediately grasp..
I had a Japanese-American linguist-colleague friend in Kenya years ago who complained that every time he went into a village to do linguistic fieldwork, everyone came running up to him saying, "Can you fix my radio?" My friend Hiro just laughed, a bit frustrated but basically non-plussed.
Why not retitle this series "Conversations About Racism In America - How Do Americans Interact?"
Take a look at Professor Erik Bleich' "Freedom to be Racist", a comparison of the US efforts to deal with racism in comparison with approaches in some European countries. His starting point is to see racism as discrimination based on any one of a number of factors made very clear by the interviewees in this and other videos - skin color, country of birth of a parent, religion, ethnicity, mother tongue.
The many forms of racism are what these videos deal with, why not state this?
Only-neverInSweden.blogspot.com
Take a look at Professor Erik Bleich' "Freedom to be Racist", a comparison of the US efforts to deal with racism in comparison with approaches in some European countries. His starting point is to see racism as discrimination based on any one of a number of factors made very clear by the interviewees in this and other videos - skin color, country of birth of a parent, religion, ethnicity, mother tongue.
The many forms of racism are what these videos deal with, why not state this?
Only-neverInSweden.blogspot.com
2
I've had similar experiences growing up as the people in the video. I've been called racial epithets, asked where I was born, told I speak English well, that I should go back to my own country. I also feel a little uncomfortable at a social function where I am the only non-white person. My kids, who are 5th generation Americans, say they are "Japanese", and they call white people "Americans". And even though Asians are the Model Minority, that doesn't mean there can be too many of them at a selective school, despite being qualified. Yet, we have little to complain about. I do not have to have a conversation with my son about how to deal with getting stopped by the police. We are not being vilified for being immigrants and taking jobs from white people (that was my great-grandparents). Or being treated with suspicion because we are at war with people in another part of the world that look like us (that was my grandparents). Every time I visit Hawaii, the low level stress I feel being different or invisible disappears, but not because I'm on vacation. When I'm there, I have the same sense of belonging most in this very white city I live in take for granted.
10
I greatly appreciate this Times video as I have all the previous Op Docs on race. What I find most fascinating about this piece, though, are the comments below concerned that the Times is accepting the concept of "race" as an identifier. While race may not be a scientific term, per se, there must be some acceptance that "Asian" is a very real social construct. This is an identity chosen for Asian Americans as much as it is by Asian Americans.
My earliest experience with race was not as an identity passed down to me by my Asian mother, but through daily vitriolic anti-Asian epithets hurled at me by Caucasian children and adults in my community during my childhood. This is not an unusual experience. It is the American illness of racism that requires that people huddle themselves into communities of support so as to counter the effects of overt and tacit racism. Yes, Asians tend to have high rates of education and employment, and low rates of criminal activity. But this in no way blunts the force of racism experienced by individuals, families and entire communities.
Arguing that "race" is a non-scientific term and that Asians excel in the US is really the beside the point, the point being that this community is on the receiving end of hostility, prejudice, and even violence on a daily basis based on the fact that they are perceived as "Asian". Talk to a few Asians about their experience with racism and you will hear stories that will astonish you.
My earliest experience with race was not as an identity passed down to me by my Asian mother, but through daily vitriolic anti-Asian epithets hurled at me by Caucasian children and adults in my community during my childhood. This is not an unusual experience. It is the American illness of racism that requires that people huddle themselves into communities of support so as to counter the effects of overt and tacit racism. Yes, Asians tend to have high rates of education and employment, and low rates of criminal activity. But this in no way blunts the force of racism experienced by individuals, families and entire communities.
Arguing that "race" is a non-scientific term and that Asians excel in the US is really the beside the point, the point being that this community is on the receiving end of hostility, prejudice, and even violence on a daily basis based on the fact that they are perceived as "Asian". Talk to a few Asians about their experience with racism and you will hear stories that will astonish you.
18
My brother, 40-something, born and bred in Denver--and Asian--was walking through a Target in his native town last year. An older white man pulled his cart into my brother's path, stopped, glared at him and announced with disgust, "I HATE people like you!" My brother was wearing pretty much the same thing as the man, so it was not his dress that was so offensive. Unfortunately, these types of incidents were not that uncommon when we were growing up. These days, they are not so common. But when they do happen, it's as if a flame ignites in your gut and you want to fight back somehow, to prove to these people that you damn well belong here just as much or even more than they do. My brother looked around, saw the looks of disgust on bystanders' faces towards the older man--and his response that day was simply to say, "I feel really sorry for people like you." And then he simply walked away, leaving behind this cursing ball of fury to wallow in the shower gel section. He recounted this in an email to me and my parents, explaining that his usual anger had been replaced by this comforting realization that anger and hate like that was such a waste, and that this anger and hate exists in a small tribe of people that is literally dying out... That was before the phenomenon of Trump. Unfortunately, Trump's inciteful rhetoric has turned the stones over to show us that the hate still festers. We need to walk away from it and let it die out.
21
I was curious what point you were trying to make with your probably made-up anecdote until you used it to paint all Trump supporters as "haters".
Definitely not made up. And, yes, there are Trump supporters who definitely hate. Sorry to burst your bubble.
I'm originally from the Bay Area but have spend the last 14+ years living in Mainland China and Hong Kong. It wasn't until I moved outside the US that I realized the fallacy of the white American perspective of the label Asian. I can the perception of the model minority and its association to Asian-Americans further perpetuates the stereotypes that all Asian-Americans fall into the same group. I appreciate the comment that one participant made about skin tone variation among ethnic groups, but I feel that the cultural nuance component was unfortunately left out. The complexity of Asian cultures and how they may or may not ingrate into the mainstream culture adds a further layer of complexity to identity, the Asian-American experience and non-Asian perspectives on the Asian-American community that cannot be ignored or dismissed.
6
The cultures of Asian countries are much more different from one another than those of European countries but the underlying Northeast Asian values of hard work, education, and deference to authority are really the only things that carry over to the second generation in the US. Second generation Japanese Americans lose the whole hyper politeness thing. Many Indonesians, Vietnamese and Thais in the US are in fact ethnic Chinese and never fully lost their Chinese culture despite generations in SE Asia. India is totally different and everyone gets that. The Philippines has a very strong Western/Latin influence and anyone who hangs out with Filipinos gets that.
This is an incredibly dense and a serious topic to explain through quoting a couple of minutes of a video with an incredibly narrow perspective on the struggles of the Asians and the issues of race. To highlight a bit, no Asian Americans are not complacent. Rather the opposite, we are sometimes scared, and to raise our voices we have to think a hundred times - how can I express myself, without "me provoking" an angry reaction back at me? Because we are ingrained with certain values of respecting others, no matter how hateful and spiteful these others are, we do just that. And we think "If I speak up this time, will they believe me? Is getting angry the only way for my voice to be heard. What if I phrased a very eloquent sentence that implies, I suffer, I want you to hear me. Believe me. And acknowledge it. Because well crying, shouting, begging is just not my way. " And they don't, well "I must have not gathered enough evidence to make a compelling argument. I'll try at a better time, with more maturity, grace, and resilience."
3
Looks like NY times again left out other Asian Americans such as Laotian Americans, Thai Americans , Cambodian Americans and Vietnamese Americans. It seems like people forget that their are other Asian Americans that society seems to forget or conveniently likes to ignore. It's a shame that when people talk about Asian Americans. They only know about China or Japan. They never hear anything about Asian Americans from Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam or Thailand because were not the popular Asian Americans. It goes to show how little America knows about it's race and ethnicity.
1
Oh, please. Debunking the model minority myth is so, like, totally 80s. If you are still trying to disprove a 30 year old stereotype then you are really out of touch.
There is both truth and fiction in the label. Not all Asian Americans fit the stereotype. But you're kidding yourself if you think a lot of Asian Americans - especially Chinese, Korean, and Vietnamese Americans - don't embrace the stereotype. We do sit around discussing where Amy Chua went wrong (hint: not the same place that most white Americans do), laughing at Strict Asian Father memes, and encouraging our kids to play the piano, go to Harvard, and take summer math camps.
The greatest irony about "conversations about race" with Asian Americans is that many of us do NOT obsess about racism, unfairness, negative stereotypes, microaggressions, employment bias, etc. Most of us recognize all of these things exist and we resolve to work twice as hard because of them and tend not to publicly complain about them. We have largely kept our gripes to ourselves. Maybe it's a coincidence, but somehow despite not complaining about all of these things, we have become financially and socially successful beyond our grandparents' wildest dreams.
Good luck to all. My family won't be complaining about microaggressions any time soon. And if my children complain about them, I'll be telling them they haven't done enough supplemental math homework.
Signed - a Chinese American Jew (and take that for a model minority!)
There is both truth and fiction in the label. Not all Asian Americans fit the stereotype. But you're kidding yourself if you think a lot of Asian Americans - especially Chinese, Korean, and Vietnamese Americans - don't embrace the stereotype. We do sit around discussing where Amy Chua went wrong (hint: not the same place that most white Americans do), laughing at Strict Asian Father memes, and encouraging our kids to play the piano, go to Harvard, and take summer math camps.
The greatest irony about "conversations about race" with Asian Americans is that many of us do NOT obsess about racism, unfairness, negative stereotypes, microaggressions, employment bias, etc. Most of us recognize all of these things exist and we resolve to work twice as hard because of them and tend not to publicly complain about them. We have largely kept our gripes to ourselves. Maybe it's a coincidence, but somehow despite not complaining about all of these things, we have become financially and socially successful beyond our grandparents' wildest dreams.
Good luck to all. My family won't be complaining about microaggressions any time soon. And if my children complain about them, I'll be telling them they haven't done enough supplemental math homework.
Signed - a Chinese American Jew (and take that for a model minority!)
5
If you want to experience true white privilege I suggest spending some time in Asia. Whites are deferred to and always given the benefit of the doubt. Stems from numerous factors. Whites (in Asia) are big spenders big tippers and rarely break the law. Asians respect wealth and the whites who make it to Asia are almost always relatively wealthy. Locals want to create a good impression of their country so make every effort to make you happy (but won't do the same for Indians, Filipinos or Indonesians). A few examples: I was stopped for Jaywalking and didn't have my ID (which is itself an offense). The cop just asked for my ID number and processed the ticket on trust.
A friend (mainlander woman) wanted to have her child's birthday at a local exclusive country club so she asker her friends (mainlander wife local non white husband) who were members to sponsor it. She went with her mainlander friend (wife of member) to the club to make arrangements and was told if she wanted to use the pool that half the kids in her party had to be caucasian. The president and board of this club are almost entirely non white as are most of the heavy hitter members. I suspect the rationale was half white half asian speaking English looks a lot like Stanford. All Asian speaking Mandarin looks a lot like a public pool in Guangzhou. The lesson: Being white American in good but much less so in the US.
A friend (mainlander woman) wanted to have her child's birthday at a local exclusive country club so she asker her friends (mainlander wife local non white husband) who were members to sponsor it. She went with her mainlander friend (wife of member) to the club to make arrangements and was told if she wanted to use the pool that half the kids in her party had to be caucasian. The president and board of this club are almost entirely non white as are most of the heavy hitter members. I suspect the rationale was half white half asian speaking English looks a lot like Stanford. All Asian speaking Mandarin looks a lot like a public pool in Guangzhou. The lesson: Being white American in good but much less so in the US.
Americans, and their media is so racist they can't live without two worded terms whil describing race, e.g. Native American, Black American, Asian American, Arab American, Indian American etc.
The only time people in the US use the term 'American' is when they mean 'White', 'Jewish', or 'European' American. Why? Because they all have white complexion (it's pretty easy to understand, so don't even try to deny)! So chances are more than 99% and European citizen might be called American, yet that Arabic or Chinese American might still be a foreigner though being a citizen.
American media, e.g. Times, Fox, CNN, TV shows, Talk shows, NPR etc., and the people love to culture and taunt about different (colored or non-European) races. It's their daily dose of insulin for their sweet talks. They can spend their whole life time doing nothing but whining and gossiping about it.
I have been to so many countries, never heard so many differentials for a national. Have you ever heard terms viz. Chinese German, or Iranian Swedish in Germany or Swden? And you wonder why so many racist people live in this country?
In the US it's always about skin color, accent and your looks. Everybody pretends to be nice but actually they are mostly racists. And if you're in the south, good luck! Asians somehow got a levy since they are highly educated, talk less, live in their circles, aren't sociopaths and earn more than the whites on an average.
The only time people in the US use the term 'American' is when they mean 'White', 'Jewish', or 'European' American. Why? Because they all have white complexion (it's pretty easy to understand, so don't even try to deny)! So chances are more than 99% and European citizen might be called American, yet that Arabic or Chinese American might still be a foreigner though being a citizen.
American media, e.g. Times, Fox, CNN, TV shows, Talk shows, NPR etc., and the people love to culture and taunt about different (colored or non-European) races. It's their daily dose of insulin for their sweet talks. They can spend their whole life time doing nothing but whining and gossiping about it.
I have been to so many countries, never heard so many differentials for a national. Have you ever heard terms viz. Chinese German, or Iranian Swedish in Germany or Swden? And you wonder why so many racist people live in this country?
In the US it's always about skin color, accent and your looks. Everybody pretends to be nice but actually they are mostly racists. And if you're in the south, good luck! Asians somehow got a levy since they are highly educated, talk less, live in their circles, aren't sociopaths and earn more than the whites on an average.
4
This "Op-Doc" scratches the surface of the issues at hand. The comments here stress why the model minority myth hurts the Asian community. People are oblivious that there is poverty, discrimination and a host of other socioeconomic issues that plague the Asian community as well as other ethnic communities. People only see the "success stories" but don't even think that for every 1 successful Asian family, there are hundreds who are living at or below poverty.
7
Ah - the only minority that liberals have a hard time with.
How is it possible, liberals ask, that millions of Asians from dozens of countries, can come to America, with no language skills, sometimes with little education and fleeing devastating wars (e.g. Vietnam), and start businesses, keep their family and cultural values, avoid gangs and teen pregnancy, remain married, instill the value of education in their children, graduate, get great jobs, pay taxes, not march in the streets protesting and burning things down, no cursing at cops, not calling their women names, not getting infected with HIV, etc, etc, etc.
This is not supposed to be possible, the liberals say. Minorities oppressed by whites are supposed to self destruct, end up in jail, welfare, pregnant at 16, with HIV, march on the streets, burn their neighborhoods, murder each other, etc.
It could not be that outcomes in America depend more on family values and hard work than oppression and discrimination, right?
Liberals know that is impossible.
Yet, here they are - largely crime free, hard working, well educated, business owning, millions of Asian immigrants in America.
It must kill the NYT and other liberals that it happens.
But it does.
How is it possible, liberals ask, that millions of Asians from dozens of countries, can come to America, with no language skills, sometimes with little education and fleeing devastating wars (e.g. Vietnam), and start businesses, keep their family and cultural values, avoid gangs and teen pregnancy, remain married, instill the value of education in their children, graduate, get great jobs, pay taxes, not march in the streets protesting and burning things down, no cursing at cops, not calling their women names, not getting infected with HIV, etc, etc, etc.
This is not supposed to be possible, the liberals say. Minorities oppressed by whites are supposed to self destruct, end up in jail, welfare, pregnant at 16, with HIV, march on the streets, burn their neighborhoods, murder each other, etc.
It could not be that outcomes in America depend more on family values and hard work than oppression and discrimination, right?
Liberals know that is impossible.
Yet, here they are - largely crime free, hard working, well educated, business owning, millions of Asian immigrants in America.
It must kill the NYT and other liberals that it happens.
But it does.
5
Taking into account the increasing China (a real rival to the west world, unlike the Japan from the 80s) emergence in the world stage, no doubt Asians who live in the West - expat or not - will gradually face a surge on the prejudice against them. Kinda of pent-up resentment. Because of the bias, westerners won't differentiate an Asian individual by nationality, ie, the trend is to follow the prejudice and treat them all as if from the same basket. that's how the bias 'works' at the westerner's mindset.
7
I'm surprised none of the South Asians mentioned how they aren't always considered Asian by non-Asians and even other Asian groups.
7
ASIAN AMERICANS In the city where I was born have shown themselves to be very hardworking and successful. The high school I attended, Central High in Philly was all boys, mostly Caucasian and a group of Ukranian guys. There was a single Chinese American in my graduating class 50 years ago. Now, when I go back to visit as an alumnus, I see the school is, beyond being majority people of color by a wide margin--70 to 80% or more of students, but of them, the largest groups that I saw in some classes I spoke with were Asian females. The school continues to produce graduates who complete postgraduate education and go into professions such as computer, the sciences and medicine, which all require a great deal of concentration, dedication, very hard work and sacrifice. But they excell. Recently, I was in the hospital overnight and so was my wife. Many of the specialists on staff were Indian Americans. Their skills and maturity were excellent. Being Jewish, I was taught to respect people of all backgrounds, one of the very few lessons my parents taught in a positive way. I'm not holding myself up as a paragon of virtue; rather, I'm suggesting that people take a time to appreciate the humanity, talents and contributions of everyone in the US. The oldest human remains were found in Africa, repeatedly. So far as we know, we're all ultimately Africans. High time for us to get over the facts and join together to save our nation and the planet. Otherwise we destroy ourselves.
4
To those touting Asian success consider these sobering statistics. While Asians no doubt are very disproportionately represented in the Ivy League schools, grad schools , medical schools and engineering schools they are probably not significantly more likely to make it to the upper echelons of corporations, law firms, accounting firms, banking firms, oil companies or even high tech companies. These top positions for the most part remain open to white men only and just a little bit of research will confirm my observation. Asians account for about 1.2% of the CEOs of major corporations about the same as blacks and Hispanics. Many Asian engineers for example are stuck in mid level positions from which it is almost impossible to rise with the cream. This make Asians also susceptible to economic downturns. The statistics prove that in the last recession, Asians lost far more of their net worth than whites. My point is To tout Asians as the model minority and not point out the inequities in the system is disingenuous and self serving to those who often do so.
6
Here's a question to ponder. In 15 or 20 years, when America is at less than 50% "European", what happens to all the identify/racial/special interests groups when that boogie 'person' is no longer there to receive thefinger of blame? I will not live long enough, but, perhaps, those groups will then jockey for power, influence, and money, arguing each in turn that their own community suffered the most and thus is deserving of then singularly dominating those facets of America which provides them the best chance for political power, social influence, and monied wealth. Kumbaya will be then become the mantra of less enabled groups.
2
Skin color matters in many Asian cultures. I am a many generation American with mostly British ancestors except for a great grandfather who was German. At work one of my much younger colleges, who is Beijing-Chinese, were chatting, and she asked to see a picture of my future daughter-in-law who is Shanghai-Chinese (via the Philippines) . Her comment was "she's pretty dark." That extra word says a lot.
I later teased that same woman when she said she was off to "lie out on the beach" with her boyfriend by saying: "with every inch of skin covered with SPF50 sunblock and a layer of clothing". She giggled and asked "how did you know?"
I now have a granddaughter who, like her mother, tans beautifully--and is still too young to be self-conscious about it. She will learn about color-hate, but hopefully, we can help her avoid the self-hate that sometimes come with it.
I later teased that same woman when she said she was off to "lie out on the beach" with her boyfriend by saying: "with every inch of skin covered with SPF50 sunblock and a layer of clothing". She giggled and asked "how did you know?"
I now have a granddaughter who, like her mother, tans beautifully--and is still too young to be self-conscious about it. She will learn about color-hate, but hopefully, we can help her avoid the self-hate that sometimes come with it.
8
What Asian countries accept outside immigration & treat minorities as equals?
It's not easy to have an open society & provide a stable productive society & treat everyone as equals to the majority.
We benefit from our Common Law system which strives to treat all people as equal. But almost all of our people's came from societies where identity was aligned with class & ethnicity. As an Euro-American I view all relationships as contractual - i.e. 1 on 1 basis & I view all people as equal (at least legally - we are all unique in what nature & chance endows). This way of walking through the world is very unique & new to humanity. It's an ongoing process of law changing culture.
My ancestors came from nations defined by ethnicity w/ distinct class structures: being a peasant was different from a merchant/craftsman/nobility; being German in France or Poland or an Irish in England or Scotland was different from a German in Germany, an Englishman in England or Frenchmen in France.
Goo to Korea or any Confucian country & see how they deal with people from different countries & classes: they hate our racism but are far more racists & classist than we are & In Korea you cannot have a friendship with A & B separately if A & B don't like each other w/out problems.
This is a reception of law problem. Ancient Roman law gave father's the power of life/death of sons. Sicily had this norm for 2000 years. Napoleonic code came in 1804, yet the mafia behave as if it's still 1803.
It's not easy to have an open society & provide a stable productive society & treat everyone as equals to the majority.
We benefit from our Common Law system which strives to treat all people as equal. But almost all of our people's came from societies where identity was aligned with class & ethnicity. As an Euro-American I view all relationships as contractual - i.e. 1 on 1 basis & I view all people as equal (at least legally - we are all unique in what nature & chance endows). This way of walking through the world is very unique & new to humanity. It's an ongoing process of law changing culture.
My ancestors came from nations defined by ethnicity w/ distinct class structures: being a peasant was different from a merchant/craftsman/nobility; being German in France or Poland or an Irish in England or Scotland was different from a German in Germany, an Englishman in England or Frenchmen in France.
Goo to Korea or any Confucian country & see how they deal with people from different countries & classes: they hate our racism but are far more racists & classist than we are & In Korea you cannot have a friendship with A & B separately if A & B don't like each other w/out problems.
This is a reception of law problem. Ancient Roman law gave father's the power of life/death of sons. Sicily had this norm for 2000 years. Napoleonic code came in 1804, yet the mafia behave as if it's still 1803.
3
Loved it, thanks for giving Asian minorities an opportunity to voice their experience.
5
Why are people using the sweeping generalizations of a minority group (especially one as diverse as Asian) as a buffer against blacks? The only people that I ever hear say "well Asians are hardworking and educated, and they're a minority" are white people who try to justify their bigotry and hate through their own perverse rationality.
17
I love this so much I can't even begin to tell you. Who are all these wonderful people, I want to know them all even more. I guess I better watch every single other one in your series. Thank you, to my amazement, bringing this to NYT
10
Leave it to the Times to turn what by almost all measurements is an immigrant success story into some kind massive oppression and racist problem - and as an special bonus, a good reinforcement of the now generally accepted view that white American men are responsible for all the world's problems - now even ten year olds!
4
Long before Asian-Americans were white-washed as a "model minority," my family experienced the hate-filled bigotry which pigeon holed us in Chinese restaurants or laundries. If we couldn't be made benign by those categories, we were sneaky as alleged for the attack on Pearl Harbor or to be exterminated as the Viet Cong.
From there, being a model minority seemed like sanctuary and acceptance -- until Rodney King and the LA riots. Then, the media narrative threw Korean-Americans under the bus -- as the proximal face of structural racism established before the Constitution.
Since then, some have realized that to accept "model minority" as a positive epithet is to accept the power of others -- namely white- or European-Americans -- to aggregate and define our narratives. (If you object to being called out as "white," think how others feel about being hyphenated or alienated from our American identity as "Asian")
So with the disgust of iconic immigrants of another time, I say, "Feh!" unto being tagged a "model minority" and embrace my American right to act up alongside all my fellow Americans who have less than their fair share of personal and community power!
From there, being a model minority seemed like sanctuary and acceptance -- until Rodney King and the LA riots. Then, the media narrative threw Korean-Americans under the bus -- as the proximal face of structural racism established before the Constitution.
Since then, some have realized that to accept "model minority" as a positive epithet is to accept the power of others -- namely white- or European-Americans -- to aggregate and define our narratives. (If you object to being called out as "white," think how others feel about being hyphenated or alienated from our American identity as "Asian")
So with the disgust of iconic immigrants of another time, I say, "Feh!" unto being tagged a "model minority" and embrace my American right to act up alongside all my fellow Americans who have less than their fair share of personal and community power!
8
It's funny but also sad that the top 5 comments on this NY Times article are all about how Asian-Americans have it so good, whether it's how some score high on test scores, work at higher-paying jobs, and/or live in nice neighborhoods. Some even assume to speak for all Asian-Americans: we're too busy working on our success to protest OR it's degrading for us to protest. Yet, by looking at the last names, it's unlikely those comments were written by anyone Asian-American.
Although some Asian-Americans do well, there are limits and success is non-uniform. For example, study after study shows that when you look at the upper ranks of any industry (e.g. cooking, fashion, business, science, medicine), there are still low %'s of Asian-Americans to be found. Yes, we exist at the lower-level and mid-level ranks but not at executive levels. Furthermore, success is quite dependent on WHICH Asian ethnicity you are. Chinese-, Japanese-, Indian-Americans do better than Vietnamese-, Cambodian-, Hmong-Americans on the average.
Reasons you don't hear Asian-Americans protesting:
(1) Asian cultures traditionally emphasize respect for authority, reserve, passivenesss........so we are not taught to protest.
(2) Most Asian-Americans are recent immigrants or 1st generation. Unlike some Latino-Americans or most African-Americans, we are easily pinned as "foreigners" merely by our looks, regardless of whether we just immigrated here or are 4th generation Americans so it's risky to protest.
Although some Asian-Americans do well, there are limits and success is non-uniform. For example, study after study shows that when you look at the upper ranks of any industry (e.g. cooking, fashion, business, science, medicine), there are still low %'s of Asian-Americans to be found. Yes, we exist at the lower-level and mid-level ranks but not at executive levels. Furthermore, success is quite dependent on WHICH Asian ethnicity you are. Chinese-, Japanese-, Indian-Americans do better than Vietnamese-, Cambodian-, Hmong-Americans on the average.
Reasons you don't hear Asian-Americans protesting:
(1) Asian cultures traditionally emphasize respect for authority, reserve, passivenesss........so we are not taught to protest.
(2) Most Asian-Americans are recent immigrants or 1st generation. Unlike some Latino-Americans or most African-Americans, we are easily pinned as "foreigners" merely by our looks, regardless of whether we just immigrated here or are 4th generation Americans so it's risky to protest.
13
I'm Chinese-American. Thank you for making this Op Doc.
I think it's hard for people who have never had to deal with a "hyphenated identity" to understand how difficult it is to reconcile the fact that we are never seen 100% as "just Americans". I truly empathize with a lot of what the interviewees are saying.
What needs to be pushed is the fact that the model minority myth hurts all minorities. It provides a delusion that Asians and Asian-Americans don't face race-related issues on a personal and societal level - it distracts from the fact that South East Asians have one of the highest dropout rates, that it is possible for Asian-Americans to be beaten and assaulted for racially-charged reasons and not get mainstream media, that when we DO protest, the media fails to pay attention.
It is incredibly demeaning, to me, to have people in the comment section deciding on behalf of the Asian-American community that this is "not a real problem", not worth discussing - even some admitting they didn't actually watch the video. It pains me to hear that some aren't even open to discussion on it and really reinforces the idea that Asians are the invisible minority.
I think it's hard for people who have never had to deal with a "hyphenated identity" to understand how difficult it is to reconcile the fact that we are never seen 100% as "just Americans". I truly empathize with a lot of what the interviewees are saying.
What needs to be pushed is the fact that the model minority myth hurts all minorities. It provides a delusion that Asians and Asian-Americans don't face race-related issues on a personal and societal level - it distracts from the fact that South East Asians have one of the highest dropout rates, that it is possible for Asian-Americans to be beaten and assaulted for racially-charged reasons and not get mainstream media, that when we DO protest, the media fails to pay attention.
It is incredibly demeaning, to me, to have people in the comment section deciding on behalf of the Asian-American community that this is "not a real problem", not worth discussing - even some admitting they didn't actually watch the video. It pains me to hear that some aren't even open to discussion on it and really reinforces the idea that Asians are the invisible minority.
22
Excellent video. My only criticism is that this is not "a conversation with ASIANS on race." It should be titled "A conversation with ASIAN-AMERICANS on race." If this were about African-Americans, you wouldn't say it was about Africans. This may just seem like semantics, but I think it's quite revealing that even our habits of language suggest that, deep down, perhaps we still don't consider Asian-Americans to be full Americans.
4
American Renaissance and Radix Journal are the best places on the internet for real discussions about race in America. This whole article is dumb. Asians are model minorities.
As a Chicago born 4th generation Asian American, the one thing that I think will NEVER change is that I will be forever treated as a newly arrived immigrant and asked if I speak English. This assumption seems far more prevalent in the States than in Canada for some reason and is a fact of life if you are an Asian particularly outside the Pacific States.
8
The stereotyping in these comments is disturbing
7
I'm really disappointed that this video is titled "A Conversation With Asians on Race." Referring to Americans of Asian descent as Asian only "others" them and perpetuates what, for me, is the most hurtful microagression: the idea that I can't possibly be from the United States and the United States only.
4
I totally agree with you: there was a subtle, but palpable message that by overly painting a picture of Asian-Americans as victims -- practically everyone interviewed here self-described as victims -- re-enforces Asian-Americans' otherness and victim-hood, **and** reinforces if not celebrates its predicate, ie the superiority of elites at NYTs. So, in the end, if you view this in a deconstructionist manner, you see that this video is as much about the superiority of liberal white establishment (ie NYT) celebrating themselves because of their goodness and kindness in lending a patronizing hand to downtrodden Asian Americans. This is pure junk.
1
The MYTH of the model minority continues! Your editors should start reading actual critical race theory and leave the "theorizing" to the professionals.
Critical Race Theory is, from the first word to the last, extravagantly fraudulent academic snake oil, no less than a latter-day phrenology of the social sciences. New-age flavored anti-white paranoia does not a serious discipline make. If such a program's bizarre animus was directed at any other group than those of European origin, its presence on college campuses would be regarded as an international embarrassment. Read The Victims' Revolution by Bruce Bawer for a total undressing of the hucksters behind Critical Race Theory and other such destructive nonsense.
1
As a Asian American myself... I just want all this race talk to go away.
Growing up in the 80s the ideal was for society to be a "color blind."
Now it seems like all the media wants to do is to separate and divide us by race.
Growing up in the 80s the ideal was for society to be a "color blind."
Now it seems like all the media wants to do is to separate and divide us by race.
8
I'm Hmong and I'm lighter than the gal on 6.00. Don't know where she got her facts.
1
I am Asian, well-educated, with good job, carry myself well, and generally good-looking :-) so I haven't been the subject of racism much in everyday life. But it does happen though, in more subtle forms. If I stood talking with a white friend at a street corner of my hometown and a person came up asking for directions they would invariably address the white friend first, even if that friend was just a visitor from France. Servers in restaurants would look at my white dining companion more while taking orders or asking how things were going, even if I was the one who would pay for the meal and leave the tip... I usually laugh it off since those are trivial compared to the social injustices suffered by other people, other races, but it remains true that we Asians are always considered as foreigners, as guests in our own homeland.
8
I guess when you say Asia you don't really mean any place in Asia that's west of India.
I can't even tell if you included that country.
I can't even tell if you included that country.
Not a single positive remark of gratitude for what American had given them or their families. Not a single word of appreciation for all that they have received economically, politically, and more. How their lives have been inextricably bettered living in a white protestant formed country. What would my treatment be as a white man moving into Korea or Pakistan's business community? How would my kids be treated? Get it together NY Times, you're pushing your well educated readership further toward conservatism.
6
"Appreciation?" You speak as if a necessary piece of civilized, highly-developed society is white people and "white protestant" foundations.
Not to mention the fact that, if you move to an Asian nation with similar levels of development compared to the U.S. (which excludes Pakistan, India etc.), chances are, you'll enjoy a higher standard of living than the United States.
Being treated equally, fairly, and having the right to pursue personal happiness is NOT a privilege, or something to have gratitude demanded for. This type of arrogance of being White is precisely why gaps persist between the races that have yet to be bridged.
Not to mention the fact that, if you move to an Asian nation with similar levels of development compared to the U.S. (which excludes Pakistan, India etc.), chances are, you'll enjoy a higher standard of living than the United States.
Being treated equally, fairly, and having the right to pursue personal happiness is NOT a privilege, or something to have gratitude demanded for. This type of arrogance of being White is precisely why gaps persist between the races that have yet to be bridged.
9
You KNOW how you would be treated in Korea.
You'd be on lower rungs than Koreans, some if whom would envy your white skin but still treat you with indifference uf nit contemp. An Afro American in Korea would be at the very bottom
in the hierarchy if Korean racism. How very sad, and very ugly and vicious.
You'd be on lower rungs than Koreans, some if whom would envy your white skin but still treat you with indifference uf nit contemp. An Afro American in Korea would be at the very bottom
in the hierarchy if Korean racism. How very sad, and very ugly and vicious.
1
I would like not to speak from a racial point of view, and I do not have many experiences with asian immigrants, certainly not enough to pretend to be an expert on the matter. However, I would have to say that in my limited contacts, these are lovely people, who have very high standards, far in excess of most Americans that I know, and I have nothing but admiration for them as a people. I used to eat at a luncheonette that was run by an asian. I never asked him or his wife from where they came, nor did they ever tell me. I was invited to sit in the back and he would serve me the special of the day. It was always great. I felt so lucky. We talked about history sometimes. He was very smart and enjoyed learning, but the thing that impressed me the most was how committed he was to helping other asians who were immigrants. Both him and his wife were better than Gunga Din and as humble as one could ever wish to be. I was sorry I was relocated and did not have the opportunity to learn more about these wonderful people.
3
As a white guy who was married to a Filipina, I would like other East Asian's opinions on interracial kids. Filipinos, I have found, accept interracial (in this case, white/East Asian) relationships and children; while other cultures may not accept interracial relationships and the children from them. I have been told flat out by a Vietnamese woman (in Orange County, CA) that most Vietnamese do not accept interracial relationships. Is this also true in, say, Japanese, Korean, and Chinese cultures? Are the children from such relationships accepted outside their families? Does this change with the number of generations living in the US? Is there a hierarchy of interracial relationships, with white at the top and black at the bottom? I know my ex's opinion on blacks; she would never have dated a black guy, let alone married one; this is fairly prevalent in Filipino culture. In fact, in Filipino culture the lighter your skin tone the higher your status. There is even a product, Eskinol, that promises to lighten your skin tone. You see, the darker your skin the more you have been exposed to the sun, and farm workers are very low status.
I married a Chinese woman (now deceased) and my 2 children are half-Asian. The Chinese love the mixture of European and Chinese heritages. When my son was about 3 years-old, and we were visiting in Beijing, we were stopped on several occasions by people who wished to have their pictures taken with my son because they considered him so handsome/attractive.
JD
JD
1
I have never seen an Asian man with a Caucasian wife. Why is that?
As a Vietnamese-American, I can guess that your ex-girlfriend's parents probably don't know English well so they don't want to deal with a future son-in-law that speaks a different language and has a different culture. The Fillipinos speak English in the Phillipines so they don't have language issue. Besides they have intermarried much longer than other South East Asians. Many of my cousins married Americans, French, etc and my family has no issue with it. One thing is true though. Asians are much more family-oriented than the individualistic American. So it's more true that when you marry an Asian, family involvement is much more and it actually has little to do with race. If you watch Downtown Abbey, you see exactly the same thing at work and it's not the Asian thing. It's more of the "old culture" thing.
I am a Chinese-American who (until highschool) was the only non-White person in my classroom. I view myself as White, went to church, and identified more with America then my ancestral homeland. It was only until I began my liberal education that I was told to become infuriated by microaggressions, adopt a victim-mindset concerning dating, and socialized into acting like an "ASIAN"-American. I believe this hypersensitivity about "leveling the playing field" only deepens the animosity between the races, and it irks me to no extent that my hard work is dismissed on stereotypes while my less qualified African American classmates got the lion's share of university acceptances and scholarships.
My father immigrated to this country legally, taught himself English, worked several jobs to pay for highschool and college, and is now a successful doctor. He has realized the American Dream, and it inspires me on a daily basis to work hard and be grateful. Many Asian Americans have similar stories of hope and parental investment. Non-model minorities that are born with the significant advantage of an American passport, access to the internet and public libraries, the most useful skill of speaking English, and have tools much of the world would fight for. The victimization of minorities only consumes them with hatred prevents them from focusing on the solution to their own personal problems.
My father immigrated to this country legally, taught himself English, worked several jobs to pay for highschool and college, and is now a successful doctor. He has realized the American Dream, and it inspires me on a daily basis to work hard and be grateful. Many Asian Americans have similar stories of hope and parental investment. Non-model minorities that are born with the significant advantage of an American passport, access to the internet and public libraries, the most useful skill of speaking English, and have tools much of the world would fight for. The victimization of minorities only consumes them with hatred prevents them from focusing on the solution to their own personal problems.
6
I am a 67 year old White man. Sorry I feel no "guilt" over that.
I am sorry some are un happy in America.
But guess what,Life is not fair.
Have a nice day
I am sorry some are un happy in America.
But guess what,Life is not fair.
Have a nice day
7
Next will be Arabs right? Or will you just publish another Orientalist story on how violent and misogynistic Arabs are?
Arabs are white. The Times already had that conversation.
Just came from two academic scandal articles here in the Times, prominently featuring Chinese 'students' who had others take the SAT, ACT and TOEFL for them, and a visa mill sting university. I'd say there is a ways to go before we take any 'discrimination' at face value. Americans of Chinese descent, ok. Chinese? No.
1
If Asian Americans would reduce their high-school graduation rates, post lower GPAs and ASAT/ACT scores, drop out of college more often, commit more crimes, draw a higher percent of welfare, and earn lower average incomes, Americans would stop stereotyping them as being bright, conscientious, law-abiding, and socially responsible. Asians make up 5.4% of the U.S. populations but account for only 1.2 percent of arrests. They should not expect Americans to regard them as they regard other racial and social groups if they make no effort to behave like other racial and ethnic groups. If they are unwilling to commit their fair share of crime, they could at least form gangsta rap bands.
5
What we need is an Asian guy to play the male lead with a White lady as the female lead in a Nicolas Sparks movie, and all of the teenage girls to swoon over him.
Let's get real. The model minority stereotype is not purely positive. It is still being the butt of a joke, and there are plenty of negative implications about how Asian-Americans are unsuitable for anything other than bookish, unimaginative, careers. One need only to look at Chris Rock's Oscar joke. Actually, we don't even need to go that far. Asian-Americans are the butt of your joke about gangsta rap.
This is despite the fact that if one actually cared to look, one would find Asian-Americans in music (including hip-hop,) art, public service, the armed services, sports, and plenty of other non-stereotype pursuits.
This is despite the fact that if one actually cared to look, one would find Asian-Americans in music (including hip-hop,) art, public service, the armed services, sports, and plenty of other non-stereotype pursuits.
Where do I even begin...
While the model minority myth has generally served Asians well, it certainly has a huge downside. Asians are perceived as meek, easy to push around and quick to dismiss. Those who do not meet these expectations are met with bafflement or even anger. As an Asian American myself, one of the most damning things to me is the inability or unwillingness of most Asians to speak up. Sometimes it's lack of confidence in their language abilities or perhaps an overall feeling that they are minorities and therefore not entitled to speak up, but most Asians are loathe to stir the pot and stand up for themselves. This perpetuates the notion that they are weak and of no consequence, socially or politically.
In more polite environments, you might not hear, "Ching Chong" or "Jap", rather, you are simply not acknowledged, or perhaps grudgingly so. Many people take comfort in seeing minorities fit stereotypes. The stereotypes generally perpetuate the notion that Asians are non threatening. Nobody crosses the street if they are walking alone at night and there's an Asian walking behind them.
While the model minority myth has generally served Asians well, it certainly has a huge downside. Asians are perceived as meek, easy to push around and quick to dismiss. Those who do not meet these expectations are met with bafflement or even anger. As an Asian American myself, one of the most damning things to me is the inability or unwillingness of most Asians to speak up. Sometimes it's lack of confidence in their language abilities or perhaps an overall feeling that they are minorities and therefore not entitled to speak up, but most Asians are loathe to stir the pot and stand up for themselves. This perpetuates the notion that they are weak and of no consequence, socially or politically.
In more polite environments, you might not hear, "Ching Chong" or "Jap", rather, you are simply not acknowledged, or perhaps grudgingly so. Many people take comfort in seeing minorities fit stereotypes. The stereotypes generally perpetuate the notion that Asians are non threatening. Nobody crosses the street if they are walking alone at night and there's an Asian walking behind them.
8
The "inability or unwillingness to speak up" is a direct product of East Asian culture which emphasizes hard work but respect, keep your head low and don't be the nail that sticks out or you get pounded down. The culture creates a high floor for career success because hard work and competence is the ticket into good universities and the professional world but also a ceiling because american culture values the bold dynamic leader even the showboat type. I once worked for the exception. Chinese American absolute alpha who didn't need to "try" to speak up. Just came naturally. Great fighter, leader etc. He rose right to the top and I was smart enough to latch on. Note this "head down" culture does not exist in India. The elite there is extremely articulate and outspoken and it carries over to the immigrants who move right into sales and leadership positions.
Asian lives matter.
3
but during the Rodney King riots it was the Asians in Koreatown who were hunting down blacks. A sign of who the true racists were.
2
The "model minority" obssessed with assimilation reminds me of the "integrationn-mad Negros" from Malcolm X autobiography. When they talk about assimilating, it is invariably mean assimilating white. They, in their inferiority complex, avoids Asian-majority neighborhoods in favor of the white ones and worry how they can please their white "superiors" . They don't realize that they'll end up forever playing the second class citizen in this away-game of assimilation. Why not develop some self-esteem and instead insist that others assimilate you if anyone demands assimilation? Or, at least insist on diversity on equal basis.
8
As a Chinese American, the lumping together of Indian, Chinese, Filipino, etc. has always baffled me. Why can't we think about each ethnic/nationality separately? And furthermore, why lump together Black, Asian, and Latino? Each group's problems are relevant and clearly different. It angers me beyond hell that me that we are excluded as the model minority (by whites and blacks ALIKE), yet we are expected put our heads down, do as we're told, and to tow the line for the "Black Lives Matter" movement.
5
It's just too much for the American populace who can't even point out their own country on a world map: http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2006/05/0502_060502_geography.html
More extreme and illogical than idiotically lumping together, for example, Indians and the Chinese, is the increasingly popular "people of color" category –– a nonsensical and politically motivated grouping that means everyone but icky white people. This is an ideological tool designed to facilitate the branding of whites as representing an Emmanuel Goldstein-like figure, the dark fount from which most of the world's ills originate. The participants in the video clearly believe in such as notion. That is why one claims that being an Asian is simply a political designation, and later states that she believes "the model minority" is an false notion designed to pit blacks against Asians. Another claims that Asians are being used as a tool of upholding systems of "white supremacy" and "anti-blackness." This stuff recalls the fevered fantasies of Nazi philosophers, and the idea that one could complain of microaggressions when subscribing to these notions on any level is farcical.
If one is interested in investigating the origin and spread of this laughable and cult-like belief system I recommend The Victims' Revolution by Bruce Bawer.
If one is interested in investigating the origin and spread of this laughable and cult-like belief system I recommend The Victims' Revolution by Bruce Bawer.
Let's ask it this way: What's the difference between discussing patterns revealed among a group of people and stereotyping that people? I don't think we have good answers to this question.
Yeah, we do. Admitting that a pattern exists is an honest acknowledgement of the truth. Stereotyping is applying assumptions to individuals before you have given them a chance to show themselves for who they are.
1
This seems like a very thin and unrevealing essay. It is even contradicts its own premise of trying to unpack racial experiences by relying on the Eurocentric notion of what is Asian, packing together incredible diversity of origin, circumstance and multigenerational tenure into a supposedly neat package. Just like saying "let's examine the myth of the model minority by chatting with model members of the model minority". Middle class angst is not owned by any particular ethnic group and while the experiences described by some of the interviewees was distressing, it wasn't the institutional racism written into legal codes that we know of as Jim Crow, the Asian exclusion act and Japanese American interment of the previous century. It's demeaning for both the Korean descendent and the Indian immigrant to be arbitrarily lumped into the same racial category just because in America we're too lazy to study history, geography and nuances of settlement and immigration.
4
One of the things that always strikes me about talking about race is that we all sound like children pretending to be adults, because we’ve never forgotten our earliest experiences though we are now adults. As adults, we know that people don’t see eye to eye on all sorts of things and can’t always get along even with all the good will in the world—the “other” always looks like statuary, whereas one of your “own” breathes with life, but we have that child’s need to make friends, to be accepted, and not just be adults who work with one another, who accept a world of rough-around-the-edges pluralism, because it is better than the alternative was. The greatest gift of whites is their belief in their power to make over the world in their image, and that is why people of color have embraced (“appropriated”) white thinking to evaluate their circumstances, and that’s why Americans stubbornly insist that they are excepted from the uniform experience and history of the rest of the world. Can’t live with ‘em; can’t live without ‘em.
1
Seriously, I don't know where the asian gal at 6.00 get her info from but us Hmong people aren't darker than you. We are the same color as Vietimese and actually some of the Hmong are born with very very very pale skin, blonde hair, with light brown eyes to green and blue. (Google Hmong with blonde hair) All asians are treated the same. It depends on who you associate yourself with and the city you live in.
2
I am considering changing my Asian daughter's last name so that race-ambiguous last name. People say it's ludicrous, but why should she have to suffer a 30% hit in her chances of getting into a top college simply because of her race? A race-ambiguous last name is by definition fair - let them decide on her merits.
11
That's a totally ridiculous notion. Exactly where do you derive this 30% statistic, and exactly what constitutes a "top college"?
But the more salient question is: why on earth would you want your daughter to attend an institution that seeks to segregate it's applicants based on racial or ethnic stereotypes derived solely from that applicant's last name? Seriously.
But the more salient question is: why on earth would you want your daughter to attend an institution that seeks to segregate it's applicants based on racial or ethnic stereotypes derived solely from that applicant's last name? Seriously.
thanks for blaming affirmative action instead of praising it for the benefits it brings to top colleges.
1
The Response here is very disheartening Whitesplain the model Minority to me DVGN, O'brein et al.
You comfort your child when they are having a break down because they are expected to score 20% higher on the standardized tests because they are a "model minority" . or have a so called progressive town not get it when the middle school puts on a yellow face play if you forget your lines just say ching chong.
Or have the idiotic members of the diversity board in your pseudo liberal town tell you we are not going to hire some Korean from Scarsdale that isn't what we want thats not diversity.
You comfort your child when they are having a break down because they are expected to score 20% higher on the standardized tests because they are a "model minority" . or have a so called progressive town not get it when the middle school puts on a yellow face play if you forget your lines just say ching chong.
Or have the idiotic members of the diversity board in your pseudo liberal town tell you we are not going to hire some Korean from Scarsdale that isn't what we want thats not diversity.
25
It's going to be a challenge for you to convincingly complain about racial generalizations and insensitivity so long as you're willing to use "whitesplain" as a verb. What would be more offensive: Asian children playing European characters in a middle-school play in a majority Asian area, or my accusing you of conversing with me in an offensive and stereotypically Asian way? If it's the latter, you are guilty of hypocrisy.
As an Asian, I'm sick and tired of AA whining they do not get a fair chance at educations, jobs etc. AA get into top schools with 200-300 lower scores. They get job offer at white collar jobs just because they show up over Asians. When white corporate talks about diversity in the work place, they mostly means AA, asian has been discriminated.
37
Will lemme ask you a question: if an Asian kid doesn't get into Harvard, does he jump off a a Bridge, end up living in a cardboard box? I'm not being facetious just factual & giving context to your complaint. What is the real harm of not getting into an ivy league school and having to settle for let's say Williams & Mary or another second tier? What if the Asian kid with perfect SAT scores & stellar extracurricular activities was rejected for the Hmong kid with a little less perfect resume? Would you still be unhappy?
1
so Asians should not be limited to 18% of ivy league slots in order to make more room for African americans? THis is not white privilidge but Asian.
Your comment that Asians are discriminated against, and diversity is all about AA (I am going to assume African American) is a fantastic illustration of the comment made in the video about Asian American stereotyping being used to score points, to pit groups against each other.
I have no experience of racial discrimination, and would not presume to pretend that I can understand the reality of being Asian in America, or being African American, or any other marginalized group. But I can say, if the model American stereotype was created to polarize, it appears to have worked.
I have no experience of racial discrimination, and would not presume to pretend that I can understand the reality of being Asian in America, or being African American, or any other marginalized group. But I can say, if the model American stereotype was created to polarize, it appears to have worked.
Why does everything have to be about race nowadays? Why can't we all just live without this thing called race? Why do we all have to fight with each other because we are from different places? Lets just move on as a society and as a collective race, the human race, and forget about all of this nonsense already. It's damaging the future generations and poisoning their minds making them think that we are all different when we are all the same, we are all people who live on an increasingly small planet. Sooner of later we are going to have to set aside our differences and live together. Better sooner than never.
6
No you can't. Especially in America.
1
You are correct in the Ideal. Unfortunately, it doesn't work out that way in the private thoughts of people. I am aware of resentment toward Asians (and there is not a single monolithic block) because of "their" strong work ethic and quantitative skills which aid them in economic mobility. Success breeds anger, jealously. My own sense is that the great majority of Americans are fair-minded and judge others by performance. Still, we cannot ignore the primal and irrational. Unfortunately, it is out there.
1
Because of the enduring evolutionary biological DNA genetic reality is that there is only one human race that was born in East Africa 180-200, 000 years ago tiny furless and walking upright. Our biology drives us to crave salt, fat, sugar, food, water, habitat, sex and kin.
"At his best, man is the noblest of animals. Separated from law and justice he is the worst." Aristotle
"You can't handle the truth!" Colonel Jessep from "A Few Good Men"
"At his best, man is the noblest of animals. Separated from law and justice he is the worst." Aristotle
"You can't handle the truth!" Colonel Jessep from "A Few Good Men"
1
"Model minorities" are treated just as minorities. Racism towards Asians exist across the entire social spectrum. From the absolute vile slurs to soft versions such as "where are you from" or "What's your real name". If this is New York then what about the rest of this country? This country seems to have a hard time letting Asian Americans acclimate and only permit certain pre-defined roles (prereq: brainy, quiet, etc) This year's Oscar Asian "joke" was pointless, having Asian children deliver the joke only made it sad, not cute or funny. Politicians need to raise their awareness of Asian Americans rights, as this year's politicians appear to have forgotten to pander to Asian American voters.
22
Asian americans are smaller in number than Hispanics or blacks. Therefore there is no pandering. Nor is there any civil rights enforcement when Korea town is attacked and burned in LA during Rodney King riots. Apparantly it was not attacked because it was Asian.
"Race" is a social construct since the only race is the human one.
6
@ massimo - massimo, if you take the time to look at all comments and replies you will see that I try at every such article to get through to the authors the simple truth you express.
An exercise in futility!
Strangely, if you asked the authors and the participants to tell us exactly how we might unambiguously assign each of the participants to a "race" they could not do it.
Here is a Ted Video by Dorothy Roberts who is committed to getting the US Census Bureau to admit that there is only one race, the human.
http://www.ted.com/talks/dorothy_roberts_the_problem_with_race_based_med...
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
An exercise in futility!
Strangely, if you asked the authors and the participants to tell us exactly how we might unambiguously assign each of the participants to a "race" they could not do it.
Here is a Ted Video by Dorothy Roberts who is committed to getting the US Census Bureau to admit that there is only one race, the human.
http://www.ted.com/talks/dorothy_roberts_the_problem_with_race_based_med...
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
1
So is socio-economic class but it has EFFECTS, get it????
Yes, race is just a social construct -- so is capitalism and democracy. Yet we allow social constructs to have power over us and our relationships with each other, and therefore we have to be able to TALK about these things.
1
I certainly didn't want to be racialized, and neither did any of the people in this video. As white conservatives like to point out when Asian Americans don't vote their way, many Asian cultures put less emphasis on the individual and more on the cultural unit.
As such, growing up, all I wanted to do was fit in and be no different from the white kids. This proved to be utterly impossible. The white children would not accept me and were often racist. The capsule example of this is Hasan Minhaj's experience with racial abuse on the playground.
If white people accepted us as their own, and didn't act like we were alien, exotic, different or dangerous, we wouldn't have to deal with that perception or have a conversation about it.
As such, growing up, all I wanted to do was fit in and be no different from the white kids. This proved to be utterly impossible. The white children would not accept me and were often racist. The capsule example of this is Hasan Minhaj's experience with racial abuse on the playground.
If white people accepted us as their own, and didn't act like we were alien, exotic, different or dangerous, we wouldn't have to deal with that perception or have a conversation about it.
22
As I stated in a comment below, my two children are half-Chinese. Both of them are very popular and have had close to zero problems in what many readers here would consider to be culturally conservative Ohio. (There was one very minor incident involving my son who totally laughed it off and made fun of the abusing kid.)
I hesitate to speculate on your situation, but I suspect that maybe you tried too hard and your parents may not have been knowledgeable enough to help you in matters where Asian culture differs from American culture. My son, for example, embraces his Asian heritage and calls himself a Whasian, much like many Americans embrace their Italian or Irish heritage. I would observe as a collateral matter that all children want to fit in and that I have to work like crazy to keep my daughter fluent in Chinese because she (like virtually all Chinese children I see) just wants to fit in and doesn't realize what a gift her perfect Chinese is.
JD
I hesitate to speculate on your situation, but I suspect that maybe you tried too hard and your parents may not have been knowledgeable enough to help you in matters where Asian culture differs from American culture. My son, for example, embraces his Asian heritage and calls himself a Whasian, much like many Americans embrace their Italian or Irish heritage. I would observe as a collateral matter that all children want to fit in and that I have to work like crazy to keep my daughter fluent in Chinese because she (like virtually all Chinese children I see) just wants to fit in and doesn't realize what a gift her perfect Chinese is.
JD
6
If white people fail to accept Asians as "[our] own", how do you explain the enormous success that Asians have experienced in this part of the world, or the fact that in a majority white country, Asians on average make more money than their white counterparts?
1
You're making some pretty broad generalizations about white people, apparently based solely on your own experience. Is that appropriate?
2
I think, I would give Americans99 out of 100 for trying to be just and non-discriminatory. I did not give 100 because no one is perfect. I am Indian american.
11
Yep. And flaws and all, it is best to count one's blessings to live in USA. You wonder why so many people still want to come here.Think about it.... And give thanks for being here.
I see. So we are not supposed to look at the very real achievements of Asian Americans, who have higher levels of education, higher average incomes and lower crime rates than whites. Rather they should look at how "stereotypes unfairly confine" them.
To be true American citizens they are asked to be members of the "United Complainers of America".
Oh, well...
To be true American citizens they are asked to be members of the "United Complainers of America".
Oh, well...
10
Only the elite Asians, Africans, Americans and Europeans can afford to come to the USA. Self-selecting all-stars is deceptive delusion.
3
Right. And since Asians have been inordinately successful in the United States, those desperate to take offense are forced to complain that Asians have been stereotyped as "smart," "hard-working," and "successful." Meanwhile their ilk talks about how terrified they are of white children. Can't make this stuff up, folks...
2
perhaps many americans need to look at how hard Asian americans work relative to the rest of the population and the resulting success (i.e., acceptance to top notch schools, etc.). If that were done most americans would realize affirmative action is needed so that Hispanics and African americans can actually play on a level field instead of being so discriminated against.
As a brown-skinned Black man living in San Francisco, the most telling comment for me was the mention of the model minority moniker being used against Black Americans. I find not only a ring of truth here, but in SF and especially the Silicon Valley I see Asians willingly going along with it to fit in with Whites so they don't rock the boat. Asians in the Valley do not seem to be reaching out to help even qualified Blacks in the Valley if you look at the numbers.
As I have mentioned here as well, SF is one of the most segregated cities in America. I think the large Asian ownership of property in SF is a direct contributor. Heavily Chinese areas of the city are the most segregated. I have been personally denied rental property by Asian landlords and caught a fellow relisting the property after I had applied and was told he would "get right back to me." A white landlord later rented me a property.
Chinese in SF live moslyt exclusive social lives. If you want to see, just go to a restaurant and notice tables full of Chinese with no others mixed in.
As I have mentioned here as well, SF is one of the most segregated cities in America. I think the large Asian ownership of property in SF is a direct contributor. Heavily Chinese areas of the city are the most segregated. I have been personally denied rental property by Asian landlords and caught a fellow relisting the property after I had applied and was told he would "get right back to me." A white landlord later rented me a property.
Chinese in SF live moslyt exclusive social lives. If you want to see, just go to a restaurant and notice tables full of Chinese with no others mixed in.
16
I agree with your statement being born in Oakland and still living here. Newsflash! Any "race" can be "racist" not just white people. Can somebody let the NYtimes know that?
2
the Chinese are very racist towards African americans, just look at all the lawsuits they have brought against universities regarding affirmative action. They do not understand their white privilidge.
If the landlord denied you the right to rent because of your race, then it was absolutely wrong. In fact, it was also illegal, and you should consider legal actions. It's easier said than done, but compared to most other cities San Francisco has more resources for people who suffer housing discrimination, and officials are more sympathetic. Something like that should never stand, and that Chinese landlord should face legal consequences.
However, the rest of your comment seems like yet another set of racially based stereotypes. First, when you say "Asians" are you talking about Asian-Americans or nationals of Asian countries who live in the US? How have Asian-Americans working in Silicon Valley failed to help black Americans? Let's talk specifics.
Second, if a Chinese immigrant family (SF has a lot) were to eat together in a restaurant, is that evidence of their racism? I've been to predominantly black neighborhoods in cities like Los Angeles or New Orleans. One sees the same phenomenon in neighborhood restaurants with black people. Is that proof those black people are a bunch of racists? I'm not saying Chinese people can't be racists. I've met some myself. But your restaurant example is just painting them as one big stereotype.
However, the rest of your comment seems like yet another set of racially based stereotypes. First, when you say "Asians" are you talking about Asian-Americans or nationals of Asian countries who live in the US? How have Asian-Americans working in Silicon Valley failed to help black Americans? Let's talk specifics.
Second, if a Chinese immigrant family (SF has a lot) were to eat together in a restaurant, is that evidence of their racism? I've been to predominantly black neighborhoods in cities like Los Angeles or New Orleans. One sees the same phenomenon in neighborhood restaurants with black people. Is that proof those black people are a bunch of racists? I'm not saying Chinese people can't be racists. I've met some myself. But your restaurant example is just painting them as one big stereotype.
I think one of the women made a good observation about how many people (i.e., Asians/Asian-Americans) tend to think that only white people can truly be 'American'. I've often been in the company of Asian women who were born outside the U.S. but now live in the U.S. Every time I've heard an Asian woman talk about herself or another Asian woman as having an 'American husband', further details gleaned from the conversations always point to the husband as being 'white'. To me this speaks volumes as to how these women view themselves and other Asians in the prism of American society as a whole.
14
The white privilege is strong in the comments section.
45
We should starting calling the "White" American European-American to raise the consciousness of the White people that we are on the same footing here. Calling minority groups with hyphenated name are denigrating their place in the society. Let's level the field by using the word "European-American" from now on.
19
Please do. Calling us European-Americans would likely help undermine the enormous project to implant a notion in the cultural consciousness that we're an Emmanuel Goldstein-like figure responsible for all the words ills. We're ultimately an ethnic group like any other, rather than the mythic figure of evil and barbarism leftist elites would like you to manipulate you into believing.
1
Well, I'm not sure how that would level the playing field, but actually, white does NOT equal European American. White also includes North Africans and Middle Easterners and many of us who are Latino are also of course white. Most white Americans are just that: white. They don't have any cultural identity, immigration history, etc. They've been here for 300+ plus years. And, among those of European descent who have been here less time, say within the last 50-100 years, the hyphenated identity certainly lives, especially in urban areas. It's not the case that only government designated minority groups have hyphenated identities and never has been.
European-American has a ring to it. It has always struck me as diminution to have Irish-, Italian-, German-Americans, etc. while other groups get penned in as Latin-, African-, Asian-, Native-, or Pacific Islander-Americans. Over-generalization is yet another way to not really care about other people.
The sooner we recognize Korean-, Cambodian-, Chinese-, Bhutanese-, Japanese-, and Taiwanese-Americans, the better!
The sooner we recognize Korean-, Cambodian-, Chinese-, Bhutanese-, Japanese-, and Taiwanese-Americans, the better!
Though it is confusing to lump all Asians together as if we had monolithic experiences, I do think that the anti-muslim ethos that is pervasive throughout America is the most dangerous sentiment and deserves a lot more attention. Muslims are not easy to profile (except for ladies in hijabs) and thus Asians regularly are attacked and even killed over this prejudice. There is a fear of anyone with brown skin (be it Middle Eastern, South Asian, or Muslim Southeast Asian) that is becoming a very real topic of racism in America.
6
As a brown-skinned African American living in heavily Asian (Chinese) San Francisco I found the most riveting remark was from the woman who mentioned that the model minority language was being used against Black people. I think not only is this true, but many Asian Americans (especially in the technology area in the Valley) buy into that thinking and participate with Whites in enforcing it. Asians in the Valley are so intent on getting rich and getting along that very few reach out to qualified Blacks who want to get into the tech area.
I also have had personal experience in not being rented an apartment in SF by Asian landlords. I literally caught the fellow relisting the place after I saw it and applied. I make plenty of money and had ten times the rent in my checking account they still would not rent to me. The large Asian ownership of property in SF is directly contributing to the high level of racial segregation in this city, enforced by Asians. The Chinese sections of this city are the most racially homogeneous (aka segregated). Very few Chinese in SF reach across racial lines. If you want to see it go out to a restaurant in SF and see how many tables are full of Chinese people with no other people (including White people) sitting and conversing with them.
I also have had personal experience in not being rented an apartment in SF by Asian landlords. I literally caught the fellow relisting the place after I saw it and applied. I make plenty of money and had ten times the rent in my checking account they still would not rent to me. The large Asian ownership of property in SF is directly contributing to the high level of racial segregation in this city, enforced by Asians. The Chinese sections of this city are the most racially homogeneous (aka segregated). Very few Chinese in SF reach across racial lines. If you want to see it go out to a restaurant in SF and see how many tables are full of Chinese people with no other people (including White people) sitting and conversing with them.
3
Thank you for a great story and video.
With the term "Asian American" we have a great opportunity to reflect more broadly on how race works in America. The politics of whether such a thing as "Asian American" exists or not gives us a glimpse of how "white" came to be and became consolidated during the 18th and the early 19th century. While "black" or African American is a term that was imposed by the mainstream society, the term is now one that is embraced by people of African descent for not only political but cultural identity. Likewise, "Asian American" over time will likewise become an ethnic identity with a complicated cultural and social content. Finally, in the United States today, "Asian Americans" and "Latinos" are two multiethnic and multiracial (Asian Indians are Caucasians, East Asians are Mongolians, and many from Southeast Asia are Malays) groups that are being consolidated into two large groups that portend fascinating future for the nation that view race in the pentagram of white, black, brown, yellow, and red. For those commenters who are lamenting the Balkanizing effects of racial identity, you should think more critically about how race effects people's everyday life. If you aren't moved or effected by the woman who fears 10-year old white boys because her lived experience is that these boys shout "Chink" and "Gook" to her face, then I feel sorry for your inability to have human empathy.
With the term "Asian American" we have a great opportunity to reflect more broadly on how race works in America. The politics of whether such a thing as "Asian American" exists or not gives us a glimpse of how "white" came to be and became consolidated during the 18th and the early 19th century. While "black" or African American is a term that was imposed by the mainstream society, the term is now one that is embraced by people of African descent for not only political but cultural identity. Likewise, "Asian American" over time will likewise become an ethnic identity with a complicated cultural and social content. Finally, in the United States today, "Asian Americans" and "Latinos" are two multiethnic and multiracial (Asian Indians are Caucasians, East Asians are Mongolians, and many from Southeast Asia are Malays) groups that are being consolidated into two large groups that portend fascinating future for the nation that view race in the pentagram of white, black, brown, yellow, and red. For those commenters who are lamenting the Balkanizing effects of racial identity, you should think more critically about how race effects people's everyday life. If you aren't moved or effected by the woman who fears 10-year old white boys because her lived experience is that these boys shout "Chink" and "Gook" to her face, then I feel sorry for your inability to have human empathy.
7
My wife's –– who is Asian by the way –– lived experience has taught her to be afraid of black teenagers and adolescents. She is routinely grotesquely denigrated on the street by them and them alone, and was assaulted two years ago by a young black male. How does that play into your concept of how race affects people's everyday life? What would we take away from those experiences? As a white male, should I invent an elaborate roundabout way to blame myself?
1
The model minority of Asian-Americans is definitely not a myth and as a group appreciated and acknowledged. But just get into the public sphere as an only person and the dynamics change very obviously. I am a born American citizen, an Asian-Indian- American ( two syntax! ) who got lost in a new town. When I asked a cop standing at the corner of a street for directions, he just turned his face away, not even acknowledging me, forget about directions. These microaggressions sure take their toll.
63
I was on board with comment until "micoaggression" entered the conversation...
2
Oh for God's sake -- do you know how many "microaggressions" every single human being goes through every single day? I'm a middle aged, middle class white woman living in an upper-middle class town and I've had cops shout at me for no reason, people in stores treat me incredibly rudely, waiters ignore me. The plural of anecdote is not data.
2
As a black man I had the same experience in NYC trying to get to a job interview. I asked a cop leaning up against his car where the transit entrance was and he shrugged his shoulders. I thanked him for his time and went one block and asked the Indian-American newspaper dealer and he pointed me across the street. Not even a block from the cop. In fact, you could see the entrance from the cop car, but being new to the area it was not readily apparent to me. Plus I was rushed and flushed about the interview. Yet he'd been standing there for a while and more likely on several occasions. Microaggressions do take a toll.
8
The "model minority" is a term coined by Sociologist William Petersen in 1966 that describes ethnic minorities that have achieved success measured in education, income, low crime rates, and high family stability. By each of these metrics, Asian-Americans are not merely successful, but are the most successful ethnic group in the United States. These numbers are well-documented and unambiguous. So "the model minority myth" that is continually invoked throughout the video is, itself, a myth and a lie. Why is the New York Times promoting an objective falsehood? Perhaps the Times should start holding these mendacious social justice pieces to the same standard of veracity as the rest of your reporting.
62
@ DVGN - Which Asian ethnic group? Asian is far too broad a term. South Koreans, Taiwanese, tell us. You cite one long ago source but nothing more.
Larry
Larry
1
You must've missed the point about Asian immigration being mainly of professional classes during the 60s-70s. Of those who were refugees from SE Asia are poorer & less successful on average.http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=185534666
But don't let facts get in the way of sharing your opinion.... it's the American way.
But don't let facts get in the way of sharing your opinion.... it's the American way.
4
You appear in each of these conversations with this argument you seem to believe is much more interesting than it actually is. The word Asian, as it is relevant to this piece, simply means people who have come from the continent called Asia. Do you deny that such a place exists? And for whatever reason –– culture, genetics, maybe both, maybe neither –– the experience of people whose ancestry dates recently to that part of the world have some overlapping experience in this part of the world. That's interesting and worth talking about. You think you're talking about science and biological realities but your argument is semantical and not particularly compelling.
Only in America would left-wing members of immigrant group be unhappy because their cohort has assimilated well while still preserving many cultural identities (after all, there are 42+ Asian countries), are educating themselves better than average, achieving better than average, maintaining their family structures better than average, and have distinguished themselves better than average compared to many other immigrant groups. They are the new Jews, and it is fantastic for the nation. Would that other immigrant and minority groups were as unsuccessful.
110
"...has assimilated well while still preserving many cultural identities (after all, there are 42+ Asian countries), are educating themselves better than average, achieving ('achieving' what exactly??) better than average, maintaining their family structures better than average, and have distinguished themselves better than average."
Yes, but at what personal cost? 'Maintaining family structures' simply out of fear of being socially maligned? And for what motive to 'assimilate well'....to 'blend-in better'? ...to be more 'accepted'?
Just because some stereotypes might be positive doesn't mean they aren't also racist. Similarly, gays (males) are often assumed to all be 'liberal, great cooks, fashionable dressers', etc. This too is simply not true, and (as in the case of Asians), tries to paint a group of people with one brush.
As in all things, somewhere there is a happy medium.
Yes, but at what personal cost? 'Maintaining family structures' simply out of fear of being socially maligned? And for what motive to 'assimilate well'....to 'blend-in better'? ...to be more 'accepted'?
Just because some stereotypes might be positive doesn't mean they aren't also racist. Similarly, gays (males) are often assumed to all be 'liberal, great cooks, fashionable dressers', etc. This too is simply not true, and (as in the case of Asians), tries to paint a group of people with one brush.
As in all things, somewhere there is a happy medium.
5
What brings you to the conclusion that these are politically left-wingers who are griping? I don't see that. What's your special insight?
2
Model Immigrant = New Jew. Hmmm, is this good or bad?
2
Amid all the discussion of race it's worth noting all the up-speaking among the women in this vid.
12
Most Asian Americans are in the CA/West coast, the capital of up-speak. And it has spread to NYC & other cities.
There are Asians, and then there are Asians. Same with all the other groups/races. I relate to people according to their intelligence and culture. That crosses all borders, but is limited to a very small few.
10
The fact that they are model minority is not a myth if you look at their income level and achievement level as far as testing. There is a reason why they are usually not included in Progressive conversations. It is because they are a minority but not an oppressed minority so they don't fit their narrative.
47
But many of them already came to the US with advanced degrees and high earnings. There is not a rags to riches story for a lot of Asians.
22
Absolutely untrue for southeast Asians, many of whom came to the US as refugees, and have outperformed all Americans. The term model minority for those who arrived with nothing is truly deserved!
59
That is a nothing statement, it has always been true for every immigrant group. It was true for my ancestors coming from Ireland and Germany the same way it was true for my wife's family from China. It is true the same way that those who fit in less well in the old country came here. The US has always been driven by misfits who had the wherewithal and gumption to come here. The only group that wasn't true for is the Blacks.
2
Wonderful video. As an Asian-American, I related to every word.
24
@ Sunita - With every word. All those whom I have listened to speak of nationality - country of birth of either at least one parent or perhaps of the individual speaking.
So could you make clear whether you see yourselfs in terms of nationality, ethnicity, or what.
My comment has my URL and info.
So could you make clear whether you see yourselfs in terms of nationality, ethnicity, or what.
My comment has my URL and info.
1
I identify as Indian-American. My parents are both from India and I grew up in the U.S. and am a U.S. citizen.
1
@ Sunita thanks but you stated in the comment you are Asian American and now refine that to Indian American which is fine with me. Do you view either of these as a "race" and if so, what does "race" mean and how can all members of the "race" be identified?
You don't have to answer. Why not use ethnicity?
Larry
You don't have to answer. Why not use ethnicity?
Larry
1
I wish we could hear from Asians about the racism within the Asian community, especially the upper middle class Asian community. Acknowledgment of anti-black and brown racism would probably go a long way toward healing the divide created by the model minority myth. Not so helpful when the model minority myth is fully embraced as a source of pride.
38
@ Me - You raise a question "Me" that is never addressed. You also point correctly to the "model minority" myth. Several months ago several readers who qualify as "Asian" pointed out that in the myth world of the Times no recognition is given of the many different ethnicities and social classes under the Asian rubric.
One reader noted that for the Times and I think possibly Nicholas Kristof all attention is focused on a subgroup of Asian immigrants who were brought up to be good students and are the mythic group.
Would it not be interesting if we could pose questions to the unnamed participants in these videos.?
One reader noted that for the Times and I think possibly Nicholas Kristof all attention is focused on a subgroup of Asian immigrants who were brought up to be good students and are the mythic group.
Would it not be interesting if we could pose questions to the unnamed participants in these videos.?
2
Asians racist against blacks?
How do you account for 73 percent support of president Obama in the last election ?
How do you account for 73 percent support of president Obama in the last election ?
Sad to say, there is truth to what you say. I am aware of blacks especially, but also Latinos and whites, receiving contemptuous attitudes from some--not all-- who achieved success in USA, but apparently lack a sense of civic obligation or a sense of duty to people different from themselves. I have no doubt Spike Lee captures this well in his understanding of Korean American greengrocer attitudes toward Afro Americans. I still think the USA is "the last best hope," faults and all. Alas, Human nastiness and tribal exclusivity do not go away. Would that it were different."What a piece of work is man."
Trying to categorize different ethnic groups by generalizing some features is simplistic at best, racist at its worst, as their behavior is as varied as any other group we care to analyse. Speaking of 'race', this invented term is a discriminating disgrace (aimed for one group to dominate/enslave another) given there is only one race, the human race; hence, it ought to be erased from our lexicon. Our prejudices do arise out of ignorance, and a tribal attitude seeking to find differences...instead of an embrace/inclusion of the richness of our diversity. It seems as though we have a long way to go.
25
@ Manfred Marcus - Today I am adding your name to my small list of commenters who actually have thought about "race" in ways that the people who give us these videos seem not to have done. I give URL to a TedTalk that I recommend the video makers study.
Larry
Larry
4
You're right--the lumping together of people who are first, second, or more generations from India, Southeast Asia, China, Japan, the Philippines, as though they are one homogeneous group, is as racist as talking about "Europeans" when the experiences of the Irish, Slavs, Germans, and Italians, to name only a few, are wildly different (and derive from significantly different time periods). Identity politics are a media-derived convenience, a driver of division, and a perpetuation of racism. Especially when the experience are anecdotal.
Both Asia and Africa are geography. Neither has any more to do with race than do Europe, America or Australia.
Asians come from many colors, nationalities, ethnicities and faiths. Confusing and conflating race with color, ethnicity, geography, faith and national origin plays into the hands, hearts and minds of ignorant stupid bigotry and bigots.
Would Asian Americans choose to trade their "model minority" stereotype for the "model evil minority" of African Americans?
"If you had your choice of colors, which one would you choose my brothers? If there was no day or night, would you choose to be black or white?" The Impressions
Asians come from many colors, nationalities, ethnicities and faiths. Confusing and conflating race with color, ethnicity, geography, faith and national origin plays into the hands, hearts and minds of ignorant stupid bigotry and bigots.
Would Asian Americans choose to trade their "model minority" stereotype for the "model evil minority" of African Americans?
"If you had your choice of colors, which one would you choose my brothers? If there was no day or night, would you choose to be black or white?" The Impressions
17
@ Hej Black Mamba - We are not making much progress but just above you I see Manfred Marcus joining forces with us. But even if we gradually find commenters who see the absurdity in USCB naming, no Times writer will touch the subject, not a one.
Larry
Larry
3
" If you had your choice of colors, which one would you choose? " blackmamba, why do we have to choose?
8
one doesn't have to choose but if you don't someone/society will choose for you.
How depressing it must be to go through life focused on race and which race has the most grievances.
107
It absolutely is depressing but who do you think put minorities in this position? Themselves?
8
It's easy to disregard race when you live in the melting pot state of Iowa.
14
Yes, it is depressing to be a person of color in a country built for whiteness.
6
The 'myth' that Asians are a model minority really isn't a myth.
In the early 1970's, the police would deliver an Asian gang member to my high school every morning. He was, we 'knew,' being kept away from other members of his gang. But he was really the exception. Of course it's true that there are Asian gang members and lazy Asian students. They are the exception, not the rule.
In the United States, Asians far exceed everybody else in college admissions, graduation, doctorates and income. And if you look at Silicon Valley, you'll see that there are lots of very dark-skinned Asians driving Teslas. It's not all about skin tone.
Why aren't 'you people' as successful as the Asians? How come they can make it and you can't? Some folks don't like those questions being asked; but that does not mean that the questions aren't valid. In spite of discrimination, lack of language skills and vastly different cultures, Asians are successful, everywhere. The Times should be asking why that is.
In the early 1970's, the police would deliver an Asian gang member to my high school every morning. He was, we 'knew,' being kept away from other members of his gang. But he was really the exception. Of course it's true that there are Asian gang members and lazy Asian students. They are the exception, not the rule.
In the United States, Asians far exceed everybody else in college admissions, graduation, doctorates and income. And if you look at Silicon Valley, you'll see that there are lots of very dark-skinned Asians driving Teslas. It's not all about skin tone.
Why aren't 'you people' as successful as the Asians? How come they can make it and you can't? Some folks don't like those questions being asked; but that does not mean that the questions aren't valid. In spite of discrimination, lack of language skills and vastly different cultures, Asians are successful, everywhere. The Times should be asking why that is.
84
" In spite of discrimination, lack of language skills and vastly different cultures, Asians are successful, everywhere. The Times should be asking why that is"
I married a Chinese woman (now deceased) and have 2 half-Asian children (10-year-old girl & 14-year-old boy). The answer to this question is easy for the Chinese. They have strong family values and work hard.
One Chinese, blue collar, woman that I know commented one time that her children had to work extra hard because her children wouldn't receive any breaks in the U.S. Her oldest son just recently received a perfect score on the ACT after working very hard.
JD
I married a Chinese woman (now deceased) and have 2 half-Asian children (10-year-old girl & 14-year-old boy). The answer to this question is easy for the Chinese. They have strong family values and work hard.
One Chinese, blue collar, woman that I know commented one time that her children had to work extra hard because her children wouldn't receive any breaks in the U.S. Her oldest son just recently received a perfect score on the ACT after working very hard.
JD
37
@ Michael H. MH please show me a careful study of the academic performance of a large number of people designated by the USCB as "Asian", a study that identifies the students by ethnicity and by using SES variables such as education level of parent, economic status of the parent and more.
You may be surprised to see the variation if you can find such a study.
Larry
Info at my main comment.
You may be surprised to see the variation if you can find such a study.
Larry
Info at my main comment.
4
@Michael H: I can think of several reasons that possibly account for the success of Asian immigrants in Silicon Yalley, number one would be that only the most ambitious and better educated, in particular among the "dark skinned Asians" you refer to, are the ones that leave their countries and families hoping to strike it rich in the Valley, as in most Asian countries there exists a caste system(iIndia) or just plain old rich or poor in the other Asian societies, except Japan which is much more egalitarian, and homogenous, than America, and Asian societies, again except Japan, offer neither education or the social safety nets found in Western societies. The other reason is probably the sheer numbers, there are literally billions of Asians in just India or China while there are perhaps two hundred million people of actual European decent in America (the other "you people" I presume you refer too)and that number is rapidly decreasing as responsible citizens in Europe prefer not to have children they can't care for. There are a couple of other things you missed Michael, the first would be I don't see a lot of professional Asian athletes or jazz musicians or in many other worthwhile endeavors, so perhaps you guys aren't perfect after all. Last but not least maybe everyone's dream isn't driving a Tesla or exercising stock options there are lots of very fine unexceptional folks who lead very fulfilling lives without the degrees and money you so aspire to. Or at least there were.
10
'Asians'? Aren't the people being written about, 'Americans'?
41
The only time Asians count as Americans is when they can be used by white people to put down other minorities as not hard working or studious enough.
21
Thank you ABC. Testify!
1
Yes, we know, the headline is always "Conversations with x on Race". Rarely are these, if ever, about "race". However, today's first speaker (no name) mentions the word "race" and immediately goes over to nationality (Korean). All the others I have listened to refer to nationality or maybe color.
If you, the organizers of this series believe in "races" then you should tell us the scientific basis for your beliefs. Svante Pääbo, a major scientist in the field has ridiculed the American concept of "race". Professsor of Sociology and of Law Dorothy Roberts states in no uncertain terms that she is focused on making Americans finally accept that there is one "race", the human, but countless ethnicities, nationalities, cultures.
I have learned that raising these questions with each of the Times "race" experts is an exercise in futility; not a one of you has been willing to write seriously about the American concept of race.
The least you who present this series could do is look at this Ted Talk by Professor Roberts who could teach you what you seem unable to even mention.
http://www.ted.com/talks/dorothy_roberts_the_problem_with_race_based_med...
It would also help if you would give us the first names of all those speaking and at least for this cluster, their country of birth, or if the US, countries of birth of their parents.
Dual citizen-USA SE - birth certificate US color = white (note COLOR not "race")
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
If you, the organizers of this series believe in "races" then you should tell us the scientific basis for your beliefs. Svante Pääbo, a major scientist in the field has ridiculed the American concept of "race". Professsor of Sociology and of Law Dorothy Roberts states in no uncertain terms that she is focused on making Americans finally accept that there is one "race", the human, but countless ethnicities, nationalities, cultures.
I have learned that raising these questions with each of the Times "race" experts is an exercise in futility; not a one of you has been willing to write seriously about the American concept of race.
The least you who present this series could do is look at this Ted Talk by Professor Roberts who could teach you what you seem unable to even mention.
http://www.ted.com/talks/dorothy_roberts_the_problem_with_race_based_med...
It would also help if you would give us the first names of all those speaking and at least for this cluster, their country of birth, or if the US, countries of birth of their parents.
Dual citizen-USA SE - birth certificate US color = white (note COLOR not "race")
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
7
@Larry - you're a busy boy with your preaching. There has never been a firm taxonomy of humans. Were Neanderthals human? I can trot you out a major scholar who can firmly argue any side of that issue you want.
In the U.S. Race is old and well used word in it's vague way. It is part of how we do things, and it every bit as clear and true as the words culture or ethnicity. All of them have a big streak of arbitrariness and subjectivity. Your words may suit you better in Sweden, but they are not objectively better then any other.
In the U.S. Race is old and well used word in it's vague way. It is part of how we do things, and it every bit as clear and true as the words culture or ethnicity. All of them have a big streak of arbitrariness and subjectivity. Your words may suit you better in Sweden, but they are not objectively better then any other.
6
Surprise, surprise –– The New York Times' "Conversation With Asians on Race" boils down to little more than a conversation at white people on oppression, replete with gobs of canned academic cult-speak. The truth is that virtually every marker of what constitutes "white privilege" is enjoyed by Asian Americans at levels beyond that which is experienced by whites. Asian Americans have incarceration rates lower than any other group, including whites; and at an annual income of $68,636, Asians on average make more money than their white counterparts. And here's a shocker: elementary school-age whites get taunted in sandboxes too!
The propagation and mass-marketing of social justice derived from non-serious academic thought –– which has coalesced into something like an oddball religion, nearly as dependent on magical thinking and blind faith to strict doctrine as other, less secular belief systems, but with a surprising appeal to intellectuals, elites, and skeptics; in other words, otherwise smart people –– is the primary engine fueling the rise of white identity politics. In other words, these dangerous lies are gradually creating their own worst nightmare. Proceed at your own peril.
The propagation and mass-marketing of social justice derived from non-serious academic thought –– which has coalesced into something like an oddball religion, nearly as dependent on magical thinking and blind faith to strict doctrine as other, less secular belief systems, but with a surprising appeal to intellectuals, elites, and skeptics; in other words, otherwise smart people –– is the primary engine fueling the rise of white identity politics. In other words, these dangerous lies are gradually creating their own worst nightmare. Proceed at your own peril.
102
of course the NY TImes overlooks Asian discrimination against blacks. It does not fit the narrative.
1
"Proceed at your own peril"?! So you're saying people of color asking for respect are causing white people to express more hatred? If we just keep quiet about our grievances, then white people wouldn't have to get so mad at us? Your argument is a blatant case of blaming the victim, as well as a disgusting threat.
What do you find so threatening and offensive about people of color relating their experiences and asking to be recognized as full Americans?
What do you find so threatening and offensive about people of color relating their experiences and asking to be recognized as full Americans?
1
So in your mind, you see success as proof that racism against Asians does not exist? Did you bother thinking that Asians succeeded despite racism? Stop pretending that it doesn't happen to Asians. You really have no clue.
Oh and by the way, maybe Asians are incarcerated less because they commit less crime. Just a thought.
Oh and by the way, maybe Asians are incarcerated less because they commit less crime. Just a thought.
I don't believe that, considering that Asian/Indian Americans overwhelming choose to live in traditionally white neighborhoods and towns that they are the subject of white racism.
Side note, just watched the "discussions with white people" from last year the Times posted. The times literally went out and found the most liberal, self-loathing, and guilty white people I have ever seen for their "discussion." Could they not get any regular white people who don't toe the most liberal PC stereotypes?
Side note, just watched the "discussions with white people" from last year the Times posted. The times literally went out and found the most liberal, self-loathing, and guilty white people I have ever seen for their "discussion." Could they not get any regular white people who don't toe the most liberal PC stereotypes?
65
Oh, are you Asian American? How then can you possibly know what kind of racism they experience? Just because someone lives near white people, does not mean they are not targets of racism. Or did you expect us to segregate ourselves?
22
I've been the subject of racism from whites multiple times. Do I still live in predominantly white areas? Yes because these areas tend to have more amenities, are safer and have better schools. Please don't speak for minorities just as you wouldn't want us speaking for whites.
6
Chris, I don't live far from you...in a very lily white neighborhood....and yes we have experienced it, in subtle ways but the undercurrents are very much there.
4
Asians don't really and usually protest, cause riots, or throw out accusations of racism - they are too busy at their successful high paying jobs because they focus on family and education. Maybe it's about time other groups started to take note....
156
Oh, don't worry. We work successful high paying jobs but we'll make time to protest. We aren't going to take the racism quietly like some kind of subservient animal. You can count on it.
12
Somewhere there is a happy medium. Maybe Asians as a whole 'should' complain more. Holding everything in and 'saving face' is never a good thing for the individual. 'Success' should not simply mean a 'high-paying job' or advanced degrees. Every individual person should be able to decide for themselves, what happiness and 'success' means to them. Asians as a whole are too busy pleasing society instead of themselves. Americans (as a whole) have become too self-centered. Somewhere we need to find a happy medium. While 'America' has its issues, that shouldn't mean that the 'Asian' mentality (in its purest form) should be held up as the standard either.
5
Guess you didn't watch the video, eh?
5
Who are these Asians? The idea that Hindus, Pakistanis, Chinese, Vietnamese and Koreans are all understandable as one group is peculiarly American one. As the American GI in Italy 1944 said to his mate, "Jeez Joe, d'ya ever see so many furriners in one place?"
47
@ Jeffy - In the NYT and USCB worlds, each group - black, white, Asian is seen as a uniform monolith. You are quite correct that this mode of thought is very much American (USA American), something I learned once I moved to Sweden 20 years ago and started reading the Times OnLine.
If I ask refugees from, for example the Horn of Africa about "race" they find the question impossible to understand. Only when they emigrate to the USA will they learn they belong to a "race" other than the human. When they are granted asylum in Sweden, they are registered by country of birth just as I was, and you can see that this does not say much. But it is at least better than registering people by the categories of the USCB.
Larry
If I ask refugees from, for example the Horn of Africa about "race" they find the question impossible to understand. Only when they emigrate to the USA will they learn they belong to a "race" other than the human. When they are granted asylum in Sweden, they are registered by country of birth just as I was, and you can see that this does not say much. But it is at least better than registering people by the categories of the USCB.
Larry
6
Oh please. I'm not the only one who has had the experience of being yelled at in the streets of various European cities in imitation Chinese or Japanese -- neither language that I have any cultural connection to other than sharing a race. Europeans are just as capable as Americans of stereotyping and demonstrating prejudice. Race is a social construct used as a political weapon. Focusing only on the biological arguments ignores this reality.
And most of the countries those Asians inhabit are train wrecks.
As a white American I am now painfully enlightened about what Asian Americans endure.
15
There is a "white privilege", for immigrants of European descent of pale complexion . They and their children will be identified as " Americans" right away as long as they can speak English with American accent. Brown and black Asians do not have that advantage , they will be identified with their native countries first. American born children of immigrants from Asia definitely have that disadvantage. Sometime these children will be asked this awkward question by some white Americans: "when did you come to this country (USA), you speak very good English?". It could even be worse, during racial tensions some white racists might even demand these Asian kids to go back to their countries. Children of white European immigrants do not face that problem as long as they can speak English without an accent.
73
My family has been here over a hundred years. In 3016 will Asians be as firmly American as me? There is simply a depth of time here you are not allowing for. Blacks were kept firmly segregated until the 1960s. What will happen in 100 years for them?
Don't tell all of these defensive white commenters that. They do NOT want to hear it! Listen to them SHRIEKING above...
7
Anyone who actually cares about and is interested in the issue of race in America, which clearly excludes the OP, knows that every single "white" ethnicity aside from WASPS - Irish, Italian, German, etc. - was denied the social privilege of "whiteness" for a generation or two after arriving here. And in many ways, we've never really been given that prize - a WASP is a WASP.
But we were not as aggressively and officially excluded as some other immigrants. That's certainly true.
But we were not as aggressively and officially excluded as some other immigrants. That's certainly true.
Asians are discriminated all the time. When they apply to top-tier Universities they probably look in amazement as Black and Latino students breeze in with SAT scores 200 to 300 points lower, GPAs not much better than a 3.0 while Asians with perfect SATs and perfect GPAs get wait-listed or rejected outright. They wonder how one can justify this discrimination under the guise of affirmative action when Asians often come from similar socio-economic backgrounds. It seems that its their fault that they studied hard and had families that sacrificed for them. Instead of continuing to bypass superior students for the sake of quotas America needs to have its best and brightest in college. Affirmative needs to end asap.
190
This is racism. ^^^
14
Affirmative action needs to end when racism ends. School admissions do not begin and end with GPAs. Tenacity, curiosity, potential, variety of interest and experience, balance are important. What do we hope for from these students? More of the same old, same old? We often don't recognize the value of difference or dissent. Civilization is not a zero sum game; give to one and take from the other. Cross fertilization is necessary to survival. That lower SAT score may represent a triumph of vision and grit.
18
If that is racism, racism has no meaning, and being called a racist is well on its way to losing its sting and stigma. This is just one example of how Social Justice true believers are their own worst enemy.
9
Enough already. This is a conversation that does not have to begin. It is the Times with its program of racializing America that is engaged in the most odious and demoralizing form of stereotyping. The newspaper should report all the news that is fit to print. It should not try to make up the news.
Nothing could be more degrading than for Asian-Americans to join in the scramble for a piece of the racial pork barrel. America can be better than that.
Nothing could be more degrading than for Asian-Americans to join in the scramble for a piece of the racial pork barrel. America can be better than that.
139
You are being disingenuous.
Even our political parties court groups: the black americans, the latino, the women (which is funny....why not say 50% of the pop), the poor, the rich, the urban, the rural, the evangelical, the young, the old, the white men....
So you are saying only NYT is doing this when in fact, those running the highest office are doing it too.
Even our political parties court groups: the black americans, the latino, the women (which is funny....why not say 50% of the pop), the poor, the rich, the urban, the rural, the evangelical, the young, the old, the white men....
So you are saying only NYT is doing this when in fact, those running the highest office are doing it too.
9
The only thing I read from your comment was "Please Asian Americans, please don't join other people of color against us too. You were supposed to be our loyal, subservient dogs."
Too bad. It's time for Asian Americans to stand up for themselves against the racism directed at them in American culture and society.
Too bad. It's time for Asian Americans to stand up for themselves against the racism directed at them in American culture and society.
25
Did you make this comment or one like it in every one of the pieces in this series?
If not, why not? Why choose the one about Asian-Americans?
If not, why not? Why choose the one about Asian-Americans?
8