Actually I was hoping we would be put out of the misery of watching them fail before an international audience, which they will undoubtedly do. They were pathetically disorganized, passed poorly, and got lucky. As much as I would like to voice support for soccer in the U.S., it is difficult to watch them play so poorly.
If Friday's loss had been an anomaly, I doubt many people would have been bothered by it. Far more troubling than our recent track record of poor results, however, is the lack of any discernible progress, continuity or direction for this team. Close followers of the USMNT have been slowly realizing that there doesn't seem to be a 'method to the madness.' We see constant tinkering but nothing ever comes of it - only more tinkering. Our guys often look lost as they're played out of their preferred positions and with a constantly changing set of partners. It's hard enough to build cohesion in a national team that only meets sporadically and whose player pool is often dogged with suspensions, injuries and release clauses etc. The reason people are upset is because the way the team has been run, the result on Friday almost seemed inevitable, when in reality, it was so very obviously avoidable.
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a huge relief to the 24 soccer fans in the United States!
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If that's true, there are only 223 NHL fans in the US because the Premier League draws more viewers.
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@ Dave — So, what are •you• doing here?
Anyhow, keep whistling past the graveyard.
— Brian
Anyhow, keep whistling past the graveyard.
— Brian
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If the USMNT is the 30th best football squad in the world, I'm George Clooney. I doubt seriously they would come close to qualifying for the next World Cup out of any confederation other than the hapless CONCACAF
They'd probably be OK in Asia, too.
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It's not the making of the World Cup that worries. Instead, it's the obvious gap between most national team players and those of significant soccer nations; that gap seems to be growing rather than shrinking. Take, for example, the "successful" match the other night. With a few exceptions (Bradley, Beckerman, sometimes Dempsey), US first touches were remarkably poor; US players are simply not skilled enough to create time and space to play well. The ball still looks like arriving space debris at their feet. Contrast that with any first, second or third level Euro team; the gulf is still wide, after all these years. The USMNT would be fighting off relegation in any major second tier Euro league.
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Or, like I did, watch both legs of the U-23 playoff between the US and Colombia. The gulf in fluency on the ball is appalling.
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Of course it shouldn't be an issue. CONCACAF has a relatively generous quota for the world cup. If it were unified with CONMEBOL, maybe one or two would make the cut.
@ Carlos — How about if Africa were unified with CONMEBOL? Much of Africa is closer to South America than is the U.S. So, why don’t you bring up •CAF• unification with CONMEBOL?
— Brian
— Brian
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The issue is not if the U.S will qualify or not, but if it shows progress to eventually contend at a World Cup. As an American-Colombian myself, the contrast was striking in the U23 game. The youngsters are the future. Its where Falcao, James and Valderrama's are made.
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Jurgen KLINSMANN's job is not as easy as some of us think. But he handle it very well. Players like Clint DEMPSEY and Michael BRADLEY will be 2 years older in Russia 2018. Many others countries in the CONCACAF want to go to the FIFA WC and they progress too.
For now, the USMNT is lucky to be in the CONCACAF region for their FIFA's WC qualifying. It would be perfect if the USMNT compete in the Copa America in permanence. And the MLS needs to take the CONCACAF Champions League in their top priority.
Well, i agree with Jurgen KLINSMANN when he favors to see US best player competing in the European leagues because American footballers need to play a lot, starting a very young age and playing with the best in the world as much as they can.
If the US want to challenge the best in the world in football, it must start to teach its young player the basic skill on the ball.
For now, the USMNT is lucky to be in the CONCACAF region for their FIFA's WC qualifying. It would be perfect if the USMNT compete in the Copa America in permanence. And the MLS needs to take the CONCACAF Champions League in their top priority.
Well, i agree with Jurgen KLINSMANN when he favors to see US best player competing in the European leagues because American footballers need to play a lot, starting a very young age and playing with the best in the world as much as they can.
If the US want to challenge the best in the world in football, it must start to teach its young player the basic skill on the ball.
@Koto, that would require Mostly Lousy Soccer to respect the world calendar. I know they were out of season, but four ties between Liga Mx and MLS clubs in the CCL quarterfinals left the very symmetrical results of four draws in 'Murica, and four bad losses in Mexico.
While the lionized LA Galaxy got the best home result, a nil draw (no away goals shipped), the apalling first half in Torreon, giving up four first half goals ( on goal #2, check Steven Gerrard shying away from challenging the shooter on the edge of the box), and their big three of Gio Dos Santos, Gerrard and Robbie Keane all played.
Klinsmann plays Cameron out of the same position he plays for Stoke City, and while he cap tied Christian Pulisic, that particular 17 year old is hardly a magic bullet player.
The old guard in goal is failing in England, yet he won't give a look to Luis Robles. ALL of the center halves are habitual ball watchers, and while Beckerman can shield against a second rate Guatemalan side, against better teams, his lack of pace and inaccuracy in passing is routinely exposed.
I don't think Klinsi gets the best out of the team that is possible.
While the lionized LA Galaxy got the best home result, a nil draw (no away goals shipped), the apalling first half in Torreon, giving up four first half goals ( on goal #2, check Steven Gerrard shying away from challenging the shooter on the edge of the box), and their big three of Gio Dos Santos, Gerrard and Robbie Keane all played.
Klinsmann plays Cameron out of the same position he plays for Stoke City, and while he cap tied Christian Pulisic, that particular 17 year old is hardly a magic bullet player.
The old guard in goal is failing in England, yet he won't give a look to Luis Robles. ALL of the center halves are habitual ball watchers, and while Beckerman can shield against a second rate Guatemalan side, against better teams, his lack of pace and inaccuracy in passing is routinely exposed.
I don't think Klinsi gets the best out of the team that is possible.
1
There's something off with this. Costa Rica made the World Cup quarterfinals in 2014.
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This second round group should have been a layup for the US, but hasn't been. The US was obviouls far more skilled than Guatemala, and, unlike in Guatemala City, played like it.
But don't think that the Hex will be a layup. Right now, we're behind Mexico and Costa Rica, and might struggle with Honduras, Panama or Trinidad and Tobago. The skill level gulf has narrowed between the top teams and the rest. It could be the most competitive Hex in quite some time.
What was truly depressing was watching both legs of the Olympic playoff against Colombia and seeing our youngsters played off the pitch. We got a hoal early in Barranquilla and hung on desperately for a good draw despite being outshot something like 18-2. But our team was further outplayed in Tejas, and the crowd was about equally divided between Colombia and US. We were lucky to even be in it with a howling own goal making all level. But soon thereafter, Colombia scored again, and it never looked like a comeback in the cards. But the keeper Horvath was the only player up to the Colombian's quality. We couldn't begin to control and pass the ball with any fluency at all.
But don't think that the Hex will be a layup. Right now, we're behind Mexico and Costa Rica, and might struggle with Honduras, Panama or Trinidad and Tobago. The skill level gulf has narrowed between the top teams and the rest. It could be the most competitive Hex in quite some time.
What was truly depressing was watching both legs of the Olympic playoff against Colombia and seeing our youngsters played off the pitch. We got a hoal early in Barranquilla and hung on desperately for a good draw despite being outshot something like 18-2. But our team was further outplayed in Tejas, and the crowd was about equally divided between Colombia and US. We were lucky to even be in it with a howling own goal making all level. But soon thereafter, Colombia scored again, and it never looked like a comeback in the cards. But the keeper Horvath was the only player up to the Colombian's quality. We couldn't begin to control and pass the ball with any fluency at all.
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"Winning international games in Central America and the Caribbean can be tough; conditions are difficult and refereeing can be iffy. When the hexagonal begins, expect the United States to lose an away game and the hand-wringing to begin again. And expect the United States to qualify for the World Cup."
Victor, the problem, for as far back as many of us can remember stretching back well into the 80s & 90s, is that the US is expected to lose on the road. This seems to be a consistent paradigm within the USMNT mentality, both at the playing & managing levels. Yes, with the socio-political climates within Central American countries comes trepidation, but there must come a point when a paradigm shift in our national side's mentality comes to fruition. For many of our players, this isn't their first rodeo down there, they should be guiding & mentoring our lesser experienced players in what to expect when it comes to qualifiers & the hex.
Victor, the problem, for as far back as many of us can remember stretching back well into the 80s & 90s, is that the US is expected to lose on the road. This seems to be a consistent paradigm within the USMNT mentality, both at the playing & managing levels. Yes, with the socio-political climates within Central American countries comes trepidation, but there must come a point when a paradigm shift in our national side's mentality comes to fruition. For many of our players, this isn't their first rodeo down there, they should be guiding & mentoring our lesser experienced players in what to expect when it comes to qualifiers & the hex.
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I agree with Larry above. And wouldn't it be easier to just win all the games in qualifying? (No disrespect to Guatemala)
The US has very few player who play for big clubs and have Champions League experience. So let's match our expectations with the weapons we actually have, or in reality don't have...
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EP, that essentially is it in a nutshell. I think the prime example is Beckerman being inserted into these types of games. 1-his intelligence of the game is limited & suited to the CONCACAF region. 2-his familiarity with regional opposition (CONCACAF CL, Central American players in MLS, etc.) lends itself as a strength in his favor & something that Klinsmann can count on in these types of brutish qualifiers. We need players like Jar Jar Becks who can come in & play the type of regional football needed to get through qualifiers & move on to the WC. But, as the opposition grows, then that is when we need our most experienced players to come in.
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Dear Americans:
The system is rigged so that the US team always makes the World Cup Finals. Yes they are a pretty good team, and yes this is one of Fifa's less egregious moves. But the CONCACAF group exists solely to ensure the smooth passage of the world's biggest economy into the world's most lucrative sporting event.
Sincerely, the Rest of the World
The system is rigged so that the US team always makes the World Cup Finals. Yes they are a pretty good team, and yes this is one of Fifa's less egregious moves. But the CONCACAF group exists solely to ensure the smooth passage of the world's biggest economy into the world's most lucrative sporting event.
Sincerely, the Rest of the World
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@ berkeleyhunt — Your argument is ahistorical, unsupported by any evidence. CONCACAF is, like the other FIFA confederations, a geographically (and even, to a surprising extent, culturally) rational continental grouping of nations. CONCACAF was established in its present form 55 years ago — 11 years after the U.S. had previously qualified for the World Cup, and 29 years before it would do so again. Were it true that “the CONCACAF group exists solely to ensure the smooth passage of the world’s biggest economy into the world’s most lucrative sporting event,” then it was remarkably •un•successful at doing so for most of its existence — which would be a record of inefficiency and ineptness remarkable even for FIFA.
No one heard any of these bellyachings and whinings, that FIFA had set up CONCACAF purely to make it easy for the U.S. to get to the World Cup, before 1990 — for the simple reason that their ludicrous nature would have been so obvious as to require no explanation. Nothing has changed since then, except the U.S. has gotten better at soccer, and an increasing number of people are ignorant of CONCACAF’s history before the past quarter century, creating an opening for silly commenters to peddle absurd nonsense about FIFA’s motivations in establishing the Confederation — way back in an era when U.S. fortunes in World Cup qualifying were simply a matter of indifference to FIFA.
Sincerely, Anybody Who Knows What He’s Talking About
(— Brian)
No one heard any of these bellyachings and whinings, that FIFA had set up CONCACAF purely to make it easy for the U.S. to get to the World Cup, before 1990 — for the simple reason that their ludicrous nature would have been so obvious as to require no explanation. Nothing has changed since then, except the U.S. has gotten better at soccer, and an increasing number of people are ignorant of CONCACAF’s history before the past quarter century, creating an opening for silly commenters to peddle absurd nonsense about FIFA’s motivations in establishing the Confederation — way back in an era when U.S. fortunes in World Cup qualifying were simply a matter of indifference to FIFA.
Sincerely, Anybody Who Knows What He’s Talking About
(— Brian)
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And, seriously, if FIFA had •really• wanted to ensure easy qualification for the U.S. to the World Cup, it would long ago have stuck Mexico and Costa Rica in CONMEBOL. So, please, don’t waste our time with arguments that won’t stand up to a moment’s scrutiny.
— Brian
— Brian
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The point of all the outrage and angst among US Soccer fans is the lack of progress that this team has shown over the Klinsman regime not the potential for this team to miss qualifying for the World Cup. USMNT should be better than the Japan's of the world that make it to every world cup and then are out after the 1st or 2nd round. Couple the 2-0 loss to Guatemala with the poor play of the past 8+ months and the trend is not encouraging.
I would also caution against using FIFA's world rankings as a predictor. Belgium is currently #1 and Austria #10 ahead of Italy, Holland and Uruguay. Really? And how did qualifying go for Mexico last time around?
I would also caution against using FIFA's world rankings as a predictor. Belgium is currently #1 and Austria #10 ahead of Italy, Holland and Uruguay. Really? And how did qualifying go for Mexico last time around?
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The new, younger players that Klinsmann brought into the German fold in time for the 2006 World Cup did not win the cup that year, but they formed the core of the squad that eventually won the most recent World Cup in Brazil. I suspect that we will see a similar arc of improvement in the US team in the next 4-8 years as all the younger players that Klinsmann has been bringing in gain experience and reach their primes. Obviously, Germany has a much deeper and better quality player pool to work with, so it is unlikely the U.S. team can reach the same heights. But nonetheless improvements should come in time.
Oh, and while the current FIFA rankings may indeed be suspect, are you really surprised that Holland, at least, is rated so low considering it just finished 4th in its Euro 2016 qualifying group, behind Iceland, Turkey and the Czech Republic. (It did not qualify.) And the Italians have looked pretty bad in recent games. Meanwhile, Belgium and Austria qualified by winning their respective groups (Austria finishing without a loss) and will be in the Euro finals.
Oh, and while the current FIFA rankings may indeed be suspect, are you really surprised that Holland, at least, is rated so low considering it just finished 4th in its Euro 2016 qualifying group, behind Iceland, Turkey and the Czech Republic. (It did not qualify.) And the Italians have looked pretty bad in recent games. Meanwhile, Belgium and Austria qualified by winning their respective groups (Austria finishing without a loss) and will be in the Euro finals.
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Please go into detail here. Which young players that Klinsmann brought in, will make up this core? Yedlin, Zardes, Green, Finlay and Morris? As you rightly point out, they are not Ozil, Schweinsteiger, Khedira, Kroos and Muller. But even besides the fact that these guys aren't world class talents, last I checked, we're still relying on Kyle Beckerman, Jermaine Jones and Chris Wondolowski five years in to Klinsmann's tenure. Clint Dempsey, still our best player, is 33 and will be 35 by the 2018 WC.
My point is, if we're going to see a new crop of talent coalesce for 2018, we should be seeing it now.. I don't see it, sadly.
My point is, if we're going to see a new crop of talent coalesce for 2018, we should be seeing it now.. I don't see it, sadly.
Wishful thinking, Mr. Magoo.
The U-17, U-20 and U-23 teams have not impressed. In fact, the 2011 U-20 team, which was in the worst group of death in soccer history (each of the other three teams went to the semifinals), only DeAndre Yedlin didn't looked awed by Ghana, Spain and eventual champion France. The US got a draw against France, but got their doors blown off by Ghana and Spain.
Nobody in the youth setup looks like Pogba, Kondogbia, Deulofeu, Saul, Jese or Acheampong did in 2011.
Dempsey is past his best by date, Altidore has always been wildly inconsistent, the old reliable keepers are merely old, and center half is occupied by an assortment of ball watchers. Even without knowing the opponents, I've got the US no better than 50-50 to advance out of the Hex.
The U-17, U-20 and U-23 teams have not impressed. In fact, the 2011 U-20 team, which was in the worst group of death in soccer history (each of the other three teams went to the semifinals), only DeAndre Yedlin didn't looked awed by Ghana, Spain and eventual champion France. The US got a draw against France, but got their doors blown off by Ghana and Spain.
Nobody in the youth setup looks like Pogba, Kondogbia, Deulofeu, Saul, Jese or Acheampong did in 2011.
Dempsey is past his best by date, Altidore has always been wildly inconsistent, the old reliable keepers are merely old, and center half is occupied by an assortment of ball watchers. Even without knowing the opponents, I've got the US no better than 50-50 to advance out of the Hex.
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We will go to the World Cup, which was never really an issue, but we are not going to the Olympics. The US lost to Columbia 1 - 2, eliminating them from the Olympics. Klinsmann, took Christian Pulisic from the Olympic team, reducing their chance to win, and played him for 9 minutes against Guatemala. This was after a year of Klinsmann saying he wanted to play younger players, on the national team, to improve their change to qualify for the Olympics. Bad coaching move!!! We need consistency in decisions as well as play!!!
I think Klinsmann took Pulisic to cap-tie him to the USA. Otherwise, he could have been taken by Croatia.
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Jim, with all due respect, you do realize that had Klinsmann not called up Pulisic to the USMNT & had he played for the U23s, then he would not be cap-tied to the national side. I understand your angst (and that of other US supporters who vehemently disagreed with this move), however, this is one of the few good tactical decisions that Herr Klinsi has made. He's not thinking about the immediate future, he's thinking long term here.
As soon as Pulisic took the pitch, you could tell the gulf in class between his playing intelligence & that of his compatriots. No, we actually do need this young man in the fold of the USMNT, considering he's playing one of the most decorated clubs in the world.
As soon as Pulisic took the pitch, you could tell the gulf in class between his playing intelligence & that of his compatriots. No, we actually do need this young man in the fold of the USMNT, considering he's playing one of the most decorated clubs in the world.
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Pulisic has never played for the U-23 so it's unlikely he plays that game to begin with, secondly Klinsmann did this to make sure Christian was tied to the U.S. for life and didn't make a one time switch to Cortia.
2
The USMNT has been fairly stable for a decade now, and the number of quality players available to it continues to grow at a modest pace. The reason US soccer fans have not relaxed is because none of the growth in the USMNT program that SHOULD be evident in every game HAS been evident in every game. Under Klinsmann, team performance has deteriorated because of his extraordinarily poor lineup selections. For example, where were Beckerman and Birnbaum during the first game against Guatemala? If they were so important to the team that they started in the most important game of WC qualifying, the second game against Guatemala, then why didn't they start and play in the first game? The first game 0-2 debacle was a continuation of the disastrous coaching Klinsmann has brought to the team, as epitomized by the horrible display during last summer's Gold Cup. To lose is bad news, but to lose with such displays of shoddy teamwork, chaos and lousy individual skills demonstrates that Klinsmann has reduced the qualities each player brings to the field to new low standard. Time to get a coach who will get the most out of each player and create a coordinated team that can challenge any opponent. The US has the players; it now needs a coach up to the task.
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The majority of US players play for domestic clubs. Until the MLS and US Soccer figure out a way to get our young players embedded into European based teams at a young age with healthy contracts, US soccer will not progress to a top tier team. MLS ability to pay high wages for top talent will continue to impede the development of our players - as they stay in the US. Its easy to blame the coach when we see occasional stumbles, but the real culprit is a cohesive and sustainable player development program. This is exactly where Klinsman can help the US and this is why he was hired. I am excited that we finally have foreign coach to help us revamp our national team from top to bottom via European best practices - it won't happen overnight.
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I am tired of seeing all the hand-wringing about Klinsmann. I think the man has done a great job expanding the pool of available players by bringing in talented dual-citizens who have experience playing abroad - and he has done so with an eye towards the future. And he has been encouraging American players to test themselves in the toughest leagues in the world, rather than playing against lower level competition in the MLS.
In terms of results, look at the players he has to work with - and name one U.S. field player (i.e. non-goalie, past or present) who was or is truly world class. Even the likes of Dempsey and Donovan - with all due respect for their accomplishments - would not have been considered among the top several dozen players in the world when they were in their prime.
Yes, it would have been nice to win in Guatemala, but just as the U.S. once shocked England 1-0 in the 1950 World Cup and defeated a far better Colombia squad in 1994, every team has the ability to occasionally rise to the occasion and defeat a better team on a given night, especially if it has a bit of luck on its side. That's why we play the games on the field, not on paper.
In terms of results, look at the players he has to work with - and name one U.S. field player (i.e. non-goalie, past or present) who was or is truly world class. Even the likes of Dempsey and Donovan - with all due respect for their accomplishments - would not have been considered among the top several dozen players in the world when they were in their prime.
Yes, it would have been nice to win in Guatemala, but just as the U.S. once shocked England 1-0 in the 1950 World Cup and defeated a far better Colombia squad in 1994, every team has the ability to occasionally rise to the occasion and defeat a better team on a given night, especially if it has a bit of luck on its side. That's why we play the games on the field, not on paper.
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Come on, Magoo, this is a team that in the first round labored against Antigua and Barbuda. We've been to seven WCs in a row. How many WCs has Guatemala been to, ever? Yeah, none. I'm not even sure they've ever even qualified for the Hex.
And this season, Fabian Johnson has been about Gladbach's best player, a team that played in the CL group of death and is in position to qualify for the CL again.
Klinsi peaked out at Brazil 2014, where a Wondo sitter could have beaten Belgium in injury time. And would Donovan have scored while Wondo flew it over the bar? That squad choice is squarely on Klinsi.
And this season, Fabian Johnson has been about Gladbach's best player, a team that played in the CL group of death and is in position to qualify for the CL again.
Klinsi peaked out at Brazil 2014, where a Wondo sitter could have beaten Belgium in injury time. And would Donovan have scored while Wondo flew it over the bar? That squad choice is squarely on Klinsi.
1
What has Klinsmann done? Who has he developed in 5 years...half a decade as coach and now the USA is on the bubble of making the Hex??
Why not make the change now instead of waiting for a possibly really embarrassing result in 2018?? Wait til after June?? could be too late.